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Yesterday I attended a commemoration service at the USS Liberty memorial in Arlington National Cemetery. Present were a number of surviving crewmembers as well as veterans like myself and other Americans who are committed to ensuring that the story of the Liberty will not die in hopes that someday the United States government will have the courage to acknowledge what actually happened on that fateful day.

But in truth the attack on the USS Liberty by Israeli warplanes and torpedo boats on June 8, 1967, has almost faded from memory, with a younger generation completely unaware that a United States naval vessel was once deliberately attacked and nearly sunk by America’s “greatest friend and ally” Israel. The attack was followed by a cover-up that demonstrated clearly that at least one president of the United States even back nearly fifty years ago valued his relationship with the state of Israel above his loyalty to his own country.

It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a US Naval vessel in peace time. Thirty-four American sailors, marines and civilian personnel were killed and 171 more wounded in the two hour assault, which was clearly intended to destroy the intelligence gathering vessel operating in international waters collecting information on the ongoing Six Day War between Israel and its Arab neighbors. The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and using gunboats from the sea. The incredible courage and determination of the surviving crew was the only thing that kept the Liberty from sinking.

The Israelis and their political and media supporters in the United States have always claimed the attack was a tragic mistake while many of the Liberty crew have indicated their firm belief that it was anything but, that the vessel was flying an oversized American flag and was clearly and easily identifiable as a US Navy vessel. The ship’s commanding officer Captain William McGonagle was awarded a Congressional Medal of Honor for his heroic role in keeping the ship afloat, though President Lyndon Baines Johnson broke with tradition and refused to hold the medal ceremony in the White House, also declining to award it personally, delegating that task to the Secretary of the Navy in an unpublicized presentation made at the Washington Navy Yard. The additional medals given to other crew members in the aftermath of the attack made the USS Liberty the most decorated ship in the history of the United States Navy.

The Liberty crew was sworn to secrecy over the incident and a hastily convened and conducted court of inquiry headed by Admiral John McCain acted under orders from Washington to declare the attack a case of mistaken identity. The inquiry’s senior legal counsel Captain Ward Boston, who subsequently declared the attack to be a “deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew,” also described how “President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara ordered him to conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.” The court’s findings were rewritten and sections relating to Israeli war crimes, to include the machine gunning of life rafts, were excised. Following in his father’s footsteps, Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence. Most of the documents relating to the Liberty incident have never been released to the public in spite of the 48 years that have passed since the attack took place.

One has to hope that both Lyndon Johnson and Robert McNamara are now burning in hell as a consequence of their treason. To those who might object that even LBJ could not have sunk so low as to allow an American warship to be attacked it should be observed that his refusal to allow air cover, otherwise inexplicable, almost certainly means that the situation was being carefully managed to produce a “correct” outcome, exonerating Israel from any blame. One might profitably recall that Lyndon Johnson was possibly the most pro-Israel president in American history, tilting heavily towards the Jewish state on foreign policy issues starting with his time as a congressman all the way through his years in the White House. When he was president he declared that the United States had a de facto “strategic alliance” with Israel, possibly the first admission that there was developing what is now defined as a “special relationship” that subordinates Washington’s actual interests to those of Tel Aviv.

Back in the 1960’s, before exposure of the lies underpinning the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution that escalated the war in Vietnam, Americans generally trusted their government. But the George W. Bush administration’s deception about Iraq followed by WikiLeaks and the Snowden revelations have demonstrated that the United States has a secret government that operates with little in the way of transparency or restraint. Unfortunately, it has had that kind of government for a long time and the fate of the USS Liberty is undoubtedly a manifestation of how the White House and Defense Department actually colluded in the deaths of American servicemen and then engaged in a cover up to conceal what it had done, all to protect Israel.

For the USS Liberty it is past time to open the windows and introduce a breath of fresh air. Lyndon B. Johnson is gone and so is his Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara, conspirators who deliberately left the USS Liberty to its fate. But there are many Liberty survivors who are still looking for answers and it is time to provide what they need and give them peace. It is not too late to convene a panel of inquiry and to release the Defense Department papers relating to the Israeli attack. It is not too late to have Congress declare June 8th “Remember the USS Liberty Day.”

Above all, what happened to the Liberty should serve as a lesson for all those who believe that the persistent pandering to Israel by America’s political class really doesn’t matter, that it is all political theater and that everyone has to do it. They are wrong as the USS Liberty incident reveals that there is a price to be paid in blood when one accommodates a rogue state like Israel.

The philosopher David Hume observed that “Nothing appears more surprising to those who consider human affairs with a philosophical eye, than the easiness with which the many are governed by the few.” The facility with which the Israel Lobby manipulates our political system, up to the level of a highly corrupt President like LBJ, on behalf of a tiny state with values that most Americans would find abhorrent, never ceases to amaze. In remembering the Liberty we must also call for an end to the ability of a war criminal like Benjamin Netanyahu to come to our Congress and not only tell us what to do but also be greeted by 23 standing ovations. If our elected officials truly love our country they must have the courage to say “no” the next time Netanyahu comes around. And they must deliver both recognition and justice to the USS Liberty survivors now, today.

It’s past time that all the lies of the past be confronted and acknowledged, so that those in leadership today can be made aware there will be consequences for telling lies to the American public today. It’s the only way to reverse the slide into secret, unaccountable, even illegal government, whose decisions and policies are increasingly opaque to any public oversight at all, and which are maintained through deception.

The "leadership" at large had prostrated before Netanyahu on his last triumphal visit on the Hill. The first steps could be very simple: asking the individual "leaders" to meet with the survivors of USSLiberty, on air.

"It’s past time that all the lies of the past be confronted and acknowledged, so that those in leadership today can be made aware there will be consequences for telling lies to the American public today."

LBJ was very complicit in the assassination of John F. Kennedy with the help of the Meyer Lansky gang. The CIA and FBI helped as well as they had long been accustomed to using organized crime. LBJ had a long history of graft and murder. Kennedy was set to not only replace him on the ticket but to let his brother prosecute him - which is why Robert Kennedy was also assassinated. There are a number of good books on the subject: JFK and the Unspeakable and The man who killed Kennedy: the case against LBJ. There was a wider conspiracy however that included bankers like the Rockefellers along with the Bush crime family and others.

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Part of LBJ’s attitude was probably predicated on the fact that the “Jewish vote” was a critically important part of the Democratic coalition, and he probably wanted to run for re-election at that time. Even if he’d already decided against running, he’d devoted his life to the Democratic Party, and forcing the USS Liberty incident into the open would have likely blown the party apart, with pro- and anti-Israeli factions forming.

The Republicans might have done something, but were badly derailed by Vietnam and then Watergate, and by the time Reagan came along, the party had sold its souls to the evangelical Christian vote, and if anything, evangelical Christians are more pro-Israel than many Israelis. Ironically enough, Reagan would have likely won even if he had done nothing to court the evangelicals, thanks to the Iran hostage crisis and Jimmy Carter’s talent for self-destruction. But by that time, he’d signed on their dotted line, and didn’t want to drive a bunch of new Republican voters (evangelicals, before this, had tended to be hereditary Democrats) back into the Democrats’ arms.

"Part of LBJ’s attitude was probably predicated on the fact that the “Jewish vote” was a critically important part of the Democratic coalition, and he probably wanted to run for re-election at that time. Even if he’d already decided against running, he’d devoted his life to the Democratic Party, and forcing the USS Liberty incident into the open would have likely blown the party apart, with pro- and anti-Israeli factions forming."

It's not the Jewish 'vote' that's important. It's their control of the money spigot and the media. And also the 'anti-Semitism' weapon, guaranteed to terminate the career of any politician that puts America first.

I stand second to no one in my desire to see the Rogue State brought to occasional justice, but the Liberty incident has been milked for all it’s worth for too long. Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

What do you mean "the Liberty incident has been milked for all it’s worth for too long?"
The above article stated the fact: "Liberty incident have never been released to the public in spite of the 48 years that have passed since the attack took place."

Nonsense. Especially when Israel is going around the world trying to arrest or have deported ninety years old prison guards who did nothing but guard prisoners. No, we in the Unites States should never forget the Liberty and those traitors who sent American servicemen to their death. There are still those in Israel who are alive and who were involved in this incident, and we must continue to seek to make them accountable.

I couldn't disagree more, Kyle. The incident keeps getting "milked" because it has never been resolved. When the US government acknowledges its disgraceful act and its unending loyalty to the criminal state of Israel , THEN it can be put to rest.

LBJ’s hands were plenty bloody already, astonishing someone with his background could become President. Coming so soon after JFK, which LBJ was at best a passive participant in, I am not surprised he was so keen to keep the Liberty attack covered up.

demonstrated that the United States has a secret government that operates with little in the way of transparency or restraint

You could have named some more recent or contemporary major players, for instance George H.W. Bush, Robert Gates, and not least, John Roberts. And the fact the CIA operations division in partnership with MOSSAD (both integrated to major organized crime) has been the number one fundraiser for the USA’s ‘men behind the curtain’ dealing in everything from black market oil trades to much (most?) of this world’s illicit international arms and narcotics trafficking.

And wasn’t there a ship’s crew went missing altogether, following a clandestine arms shipment to Iran? Should there be a bit of ‘remember’ ceremony for those folk?

It’s true Phil, Bibi is one of the world’s most accomplished international criminals but he’s in a league with persons every bit as corrupted and accomplished operating right here at home:

^ Ari Ben Menache’s revelations are still quite relevant today; from eye-witness account of George H.W. Bush at the ‘Paris Meeting’ with the Ayatollahs’ representatives, to hand delivering millions in ‘suitcase cash’ to accounts where Robert Gates personally met him at customs, to escort the money through (sans screening or declaration.)

I rather prefer the quote of another philosopher:

“It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime” -Thomas Paine

Sorry to Mr Giraldi for a post a bit off-topic and against his former employer. Ronald, in relation to what you wrote, there is one very important consideration which most people are not aware of. Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in "peace-time", the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other "Secret Services" of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations.

The CIA is working for the US national interest as much as the Federal Reserve is working for the US national interest (it is a private financial crime syndicate with a completely misleading name, neither Federal, nor Reserve).

As soon as something is clandestine (and excluded from law), the national interest becomes a secondary consideration and private profit the primary. This is just natural, is it not? "It must be hush, hush, I would have to kill you if I told you the truth. The enemy is watching and listening. We need secret sources of funding that nobody knows about." How convenient.

Do you recall a few years back how the Western media blasted North Korean intelligence for doing armaments, drug running and trade in humans (including kidnapping of the Japanese nationals)? New competitor on the block?

Individuals need to be held accountable, no matter what position they hold. We need to continue to raise awareness and ask our political leaders to show the courage to stand by the truth, no matter how embarrassing or painful it may be. But condemning an entire institution or country based on the deeds of a few corrupt individuals is not a viable or desirable solution. Judge the leaders by their deeds, but hold hope for a country trying to maintain an enduring ideal.

"The Jewish community opposed the Viet Nam war and led opposition to it.
LBJ traded his silence on the Liberty incident for Jewish silence on the Viet Nam war."

Oh really?

So who was Kissinger?

Public opposition to Vietnam was used by supremacist Jews to attack traditional values and turn politics in their favor. To say they opposed what was essentially communist resistance to the US is to ignore the history of Jews and communism.

In the fine “Operation Cyanide”, Peter Hounam notes that America’s nuclear bombers were activated just before the attack (w/ interview w/ AF pax who were running them); the US was covertly and overtly offering support to the Israelis during the War (confirmed via interviews w/ AF pax who were in the Sinai working comms equipment) and strongly infers the attack on the USS Liberty was something the US asked the Israelis to take do for us so we would have an excuse to enter the war against the Russians & Egyptians.

Highly recommended reading, and it correctly puts the Lord-Vassal relationship into proper perspective.

Imagine the leverage information like that would give a country over the United States, especially if the bombing run FAILS. It might lead to blackmail payments of something less than a nominal amount, maybe $3Bn a year.

Since the Southern Poverty Law Center is the Gestapo of the Democratic Party…I think it is about time to ask the following questions:

1)What is the ethnic profile of the SPLC staff?

2)What is the ethnic profile of the SPLC Board?

3)What is the ethnic profile of SPLC $$$$$$$$$ donors?

If 1-3 returns the answer Jewish….then, we can reasonably conclude: strong…positive feelings towards Israel-expressed in terms of $$$$$$$$ support for the SPLC….And from this, we can reasonably conclude that the SPLC Staff…Management-Board, and Donors supported the attack on the USS Liberty.

It’s all about links these days:The SPLC is a notorious Jewish Terrorist Organization.

You're American--do you support the invasion of Ukraine? How about American support for Israel--are you in favor of that? Promotion of gay rights around the world? I'm sure you're really in favor of that. ;)

Just because you like a country doesn't mean you support everything they do.

Of course, I've never seen any Jewish group criticize the Liberty attack, unlike, say, Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, where there are multiple groups devoted to this topic. Most likely the liberals aren't interested in military stuff and the neocons don't want to criticize Israel.

All too many fake conservatives want to bury the memory of the USS Liberty. They will go on and on about Benghazi but recoil like vampires confronted with a Cross from anything to do with the Liberty. I have had them tell me that the USS Liberty got what she deserved since she was “an armed spy ship in a war zone”. Their support of the military only goes until it meets up with their bending over for Israel. Then the US military is just another victim of collateral damage.

Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

Not continuing to bring this travesty to the attention of the American people destroys one’s credibility.

The Jewish Vote is one thing but, I think, a minor factor. Even then, oligarchs existed who carefully selected those for whom we could vote. I suggest that then, as now, no candidate for high office could stand for whom there did not exist a past indiscretion, secretly documented, which, if necessary, would be used to keep him or her in line.

Campaign funding is universally cited as the principle corrupting factor but I submit, without the benefit of proof, that the behavior of our leaders suggests that the above is a greater influence.

In a 1955 book, Foreign Policy and Party Politics, by Dick Cheney's favorite professor at Yale, H. Bradford Westerfield explained that zionists and Jews had become as powerful as they had in determining national election outcomes because they controlled key states with large electoral college numbers in winner-take-all situations. If Jews can garner the majority of votes in New York, Florida, California, Ohio and a few others, the presidency, and thereby Supreme Court, can swing their way.

Jewish organizational strength uses the same principle as Jewish financial power: it's based on leveraging a small population or small investment to make decisions with- and profits on- other people's votes and money.

The "Jewish vote" is irrelevant as Jews make up a very small % of the population. It is Jewish money (and consequent influence) that matters, and this is in far excess of population %.

In a 1955 book, Foreign Policy and Party Politics, by Dick Cheney’s favorite professor at Yale, H. Bradford Westerfield explained that zionists and Jews had become as powerful as they had in determining national election outcomes because they controlled key states with large electoral college numbers in winner-take-all situations. If Jews can garner the majority of votes in New York, Florida, California, Ohio and a few others, the presidency, and thereby Supreme Court, can swing their way.

Jewish organizational strength uses the same principle as Jewish financial power: it’s based on leveraging a small population or small investment to make decisions with- and profits on- other people’s votes and money.

In a 1955 book, Foreign Policy and Party Politics, by Dick Cheney's favorite professor at Yale, H. Bradford Westerfield explained that zionists and Jews had become as powerful as they had in determining national election outcomes because they controlled key states with large electoral college numbers in winner-take-all situations. If Jews can garner the majority of votes in New York, Florida, California, Ohio and a few others, the presidency, and thereby Supreme Court, can swing their way.

Jewish organizational strength uses the same principle as Jewish financial power: it's based on leveraging a small population or small investment to make decisions with- and profits on- other people's votes and money.

It's past time that all the lies of the past be confronted and acknowledged, so that those in leadership today can be made aware there will be consequences for telling lies to the American public today. It's the only way to reverse the slide into secret, unaccountable, even illegal government, whose decisions and policies are increasingly opaque to any public oversight at all, and which are maintained through deception.

The “leadership” at large had prostrated before Netanyahu on his last triumphal visit on the Hill. The first steps could be very simple: asking the individual “leaders” to meet with the survivors of USSLiberty, on air.

I stand second to no one in my desire to see the Rogue State brought to occasional justice, but the Liberty incident has been milked for all it's worth for too long. Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

What do you mean “the Liberty incident has been milked for all it’s worth for too long?”
The above article stated the fact: “Liberty incident have never been released to the public in spite of the 48 years that have passed since the attack took place.”

Since the Southern Poverty Law Center is the Gestapo of the Democratic Party...I think it is about time to ask the following questions:

1)What is the ethnic profile of the SPLC staff?

2)What is the ethnic profile of the SPLC Board?

3)What is the ethnic profile of SPLC $$$$$$$$$ donors?

If 1-3 returns the answer Jewish....then, we can reasonably conclude: strong...positive feelings towards Israel-expressed in terms of $$$$$$$$ support for the SPLC....And from this, we can reasonably conclude that the SPLC Staff...Management-Board, and Donors supported the attack on the USS Liberty.

It's all about links these days:The SPLC is a notorious Jewish Terrorist Organization.

If I were vdare.com, this is how I would go after the SPLC.

You’re American–do you support the invasion of Ukraine? How about American support for Israel–are you in favor of that? Promotion of gay rights around the world? I’m sure you’re really in favor of that.

Just because you like a country doesn’t mean you support everything they do.

Of course, I’ve never seen any Jewish group criticize the Liberty attack, unlike, say, Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, where there are multiple groups devoted to this topic. Most likely the liberals aren’t interested in military stuff and the neocons don’t want to criticize Israel.

With all the comments and history here, one thing I’ve _never_ seen is any credible reason why Israel would attack a US spy ship. (No, I’m NOT going to play nicey nice and use the “intelligence” label).
This is the first time I’ve ever seen any answer – namely they Israeli’s were hoping the US would believe it was an Egyptian attack – but that’s so off the wall it ranks up there with OJ Simpson and the faked Mars landing.
Anyone (and I’m asking seriously) have any plausible explanation why Israel would do so? Thanks

The Liberty was a capable American intelligence-gathering ship. The Israel government did NOT want any formal intelligence gathering during that period of time and in that place. They were making a war of aggression and covering it up with the usual 'oh,poor Israel, a few scrappy little Jews defending from unwarranted and massive Arab aggression".

The simple fact of covering up their national markings on the attacking planes and boats is enough to show their intent and their guilt, but there is plenty of other evidence available if one goes looking.

It was a very sad day when LBJ heard our planes were on their way to kick ass and relieve the Liberty, but instead of applauding the naval force's courage for heading out to relieve the USS Liberty, LBJ ordered those planes to turn around immediately and stand down from further action, because he was not going to "attack our ally". Israel was not then, nor ever has been, an ally of the USA, check it out, that is a true statement.

In fact, the Jews were the aggressors from day one of the wars which brought Israel into existence. We continue to experience blowback from a time when USA, France, Britain other capitalist countries of white folks set boundaries and drew maps deciding which 'new' countries got to exist, and which passed into history without a blip.

Can anyone say 'Iraq"? "Kuwait" Those are other made-up countries with boundaries drawn by white folks half a world away and counting on profiting from oil contracts and oil futures to swing their votes one way or the other.

I will not deny Israel's right to exist, there is too much water under the bridge to try to put that cat back in the box. But they owe an apology, restitution, and full disclosure in the case of the USS Liberty, as does the US itself.

Israel wanted Egypt to be blamed for the attack so US had a "reason" to attack Egypt. Israel is very good at false flags, causing chaos all over the world, blamed on Muslims now. Israel now trains even our "law enforcement" agencies, so you can expect continuing terrorist attacks everywhere, like the Boston Marathon Bombing to be blamed on innocent patsies- again, Muslims.

It's past time that all the lies of the past be confronted and acknowledged, so that those in leadership today can be made aware there will be consequences for telling lies to the American public today. It's the only way to reverse the slide into secret, unaccountable, even illegal government, whose decisions and policies are increasingly opaque to any public oversight at all, and which are maintained through deception.

“It’s past time that all the lies of the past be confronted and acknowledged, so that those in leadership today can be made aware there will be consequences for telling lies to the American public today.”

Part of LBJ's attitude was probably predicated on the fact that the "Jewish vote" was a critically important part of the Democratic coalition, and he probably wanted to run for re-election at that time. Even if he'd already decided against running, he'd devoted his life to the Democratic Party, and forcing the USS Liberty incident into the open would have likely blown the party apart, with pro- and anti-Israeli factions forming.

The Republicans might have done something, but were badly derailed by Vietnam and then Watergate, and by the time Reagan came along, the party had sold its souls to the evangelical Christian vote, and if anything, evangelical Christians are more pro-Israel than many Israelis. Ironically enough, Reagan would have likely won even if he had done nothing to court the evangelicals, thanks to the Iran hostage crisis and Jimmy Carter's talent for self-destruction. But by that time, he'd signed on their dotted line, and didn't want to drive a bunch of new Republican voters (evangelicals, before this, had tended to be hereditary Democrats) back into the Democrats' arms.

“Part of LBJ’s attitude was probably predicated on the fact that the “Jewish vote” was a critically important part of the Democratic coalition, and he probably wanted to run for re-election at that time. Even if he’d already decided against running, he’d devoted his life to the Democratic Party, and forcing the USS Liberty incident into the open would have likely blown the party apart, with pro- and anti-Israeli factions forming.”

LBJ's hands were plenty bloody already, astonishing someone with his background could become President. Coming so soon after JFK, which LBJ was at best a passive participant in, I am not surprised he was so keen to keep the Liberty attack covered up.

Afraid this has already disappeared down the memory hole though.

“LBJ’s hands were plenty bloody already, astonishing someone with his background could become President.”

LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up. It’s not far fetched to imagine that such a man could also have covered up the Liberty incident.

By the way, Mr. Giraldi, what do you think of the allegations against Congressman Hastert? You interviewed Sibel Edmonds a number of years back. During the interview, she made allegations about Hastert being involved in a Turkish spying ring and receiving bribes. So perhaps you have some perspective or information to add to this.

"LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up. It’s not far fetched to imagine that such a man could also have covered up the Liberty incident."

You put the cart ahead of the horse. LBJ wasn't smart enough to be the architect of JFK's assassination, and neither was George Bush or Dick Cheney smart enough to be the architects of 9/11. Instead, what both men did was play major roles in allowing Israel's Mossad to engineer both events, while providing Israel with strategic assets, accompanied by official cover-up stories.

There was a time when somebody could accuse Jews of supporting policies not in the best long term interest of the country and it would just be another idea to ponder. Now it is "hate speech" and forbidden. This isn't the result of stupidity.

It isn't stupidity; it's selfishness and carelessness. Whites don't care as long as they've got what they want. What does it matter to the white suburban guy with a McMansion, three cars and season tickets to the local sports team whether Jews do this or that?

Jewish issues are majorly overinflated in the intellectual sphere, but in real life they don't matter all that much. This is one thing I see over and over in the commentary at places like Unz Review. People who write and comment here care way, way more about these "icing on the cake" issues, and not enough about the meat and potatoes.

One Jewish writer who does address these meat and potato issues is Joel Kotkin, and he's like a voice in the wilderness among his people. Kind of odd, really, that Jews abandoned these fundamental quality of life issues, because materialism was major driving factor in Zionism and related movements that led to the founding of the Jewish state.

I think both Jews and gentiles focus on their respective interests too much to their own detriment. For gentiles, they tend to dismiss the cultural issues as unimportant when they really aren't in the long run, whereas Jews neglect the material issues to their own personal/tribal peril, which they would not do if they had any sense of history.

But not seeing history clearly is probably a big part of what makes history keep happening. So I guess there's no sense in crying about it, and might as well embrace it. Nothing new under the sun and all that.

With all the comments and history here, one thing I've _never_ seen is any credible reason why Israel would attack a US spy ship. (No, I'm NOT going to play nicey nice and use the "intelligence" label).
This is the first time I've ever seen any answer - namely they Israeli's were hoping the US would believe it was an Egyptian attack - but that's so off the wall it ranks up there with OJ Simpson and the faked Mars landing.
Anyone (and I'm asking seriously) have any plausible explanation why Israel would do so? Thanks

Excellent question indeed. There are no rational answers. It was a tragic mistake pure and simple, but those who believe otherwise, an open mind would simply introduce unnecessary wisdom.

there's a marvelous line in "Tiger at the Gates" -- the senator and lawyer are dithering and raving, spewing nonsense scripted by Sam Shama.The Queen cuts them off: "We've come to expect nonsense. It never seems to fail us."

Contrary to previous interpretations, Ginor and Remez’s book shows that the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war--well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis.

Ginor and Remez’s startling account details how the Soviet-Arab onslaught was to be unleashed once Israel had been drawn into action and was branded as the aggressor. The Soviets had submarine-based nuclear missiles poised for use against Israel in case it already possessed and tried to use an atomic device, and the USSR prepared and actually began a marine landing on Israel’s shores backed by strategic bombers and fighter squadrons. They sent their most advanced, still-secret aircraft, the MiG-25 Foxbat, on provocative sorties over Israel’s Dimona nuclear complex to prepare the planned attack on it, and to scare Israel into making the first strike. It was only the unpredicted devastation of Israel’s response that narrowly thwarted the Soviet design.

All factors considered --

-- Possible US complicity in the effort to take out Israel's nuclear arsenal?? Was Liberty aware of Dimona?

-- LBJ needing Jews to tone down their opposition to Viet Nam war (a thesis that some retired CIA analysts support)

One thing's for sure: the script the Israelis recite, "we made mistakes, we admit it" -- is right out of the zionist playbook, they might as well have tattooed on their foreheads, "we are lying through our teeth but we are certain you will believe us. And by the way, send money. Now. Lots."

You're American--do you support the invasion of Ukraine? How about American support for Israel--are you in favor of that? Promotion of gay rights around the world? I'm sure you're really in favor of that. ;)

Just because you like a country doesn't mean you support everything they do.

Of course, I've never seen any Jewish group criticize the Liberty attack, unlike, say, Israeli oppression of the Palestinians, where there are multiple groups devoted to this topic. Most likely the liberals aren't interested in military stuff and the neocons don't want to criticize Israel.

Neither is a good thing--my point is you cannot ipso facto assume every single Jewish person supports all the policies of the State of Israel, any more than you can assume every American supports all the ridiculous things our country does.

The Lobby's quite powerful, but let's not get too intellectually lazy here.

Historian Donald Neff takes the supposition a step further, presenting it as fact:

If the ship could listen in on Israeli military communications, as it could, then the United States could discover Israel’s plans to attack Syria. Foreknowledge of the attack might bring an ultimatum from the United States, an ultimatum that could not be ignored because Israel desperately still needed Washington’s support both in the United Nations and to fend off any threats from the Soviet Union. Without the United States, the Soviet Union might directly intervene if Israel took on its last, comparatively unscathed, client, Syria.

Indeed, Neff goes so far as to posit that Israel actually delayed its attack on Syria until after the Liberty was neutralized.46

The theory that the attack on the Liberty was motivated by a desire to conceal the impending Israeli attack on the Golan Heights is not, then, confined to the extremist fringe, but has made headway in important political and academic circles. In the past, refuting it was dependent largely on appeals to common sense, such as that made by Ernest Castle, the former U.S. naval attaché, in an interview with British television:

Let us presume the Israeli high command was… fearful that the United States would learn of what was an evident Israeli plan to take the Golan, or any other plan on the part of the Israelis. Would they say, “my golly, that will irritate the United States, our great friend. We’d better not… let that happen – so let’s sink their ship instead”?47

Common sense would also dictate that the Israelis, in the process of handily defeating three Arab armies, could have easily sunk a single, lightly armed ship if they had wanted to. In such a case, they would not have attacked the Liberty in broad daylight with clearly marked boats and planes – submarines could have done the job – nor would they have ultimately halted their fire and offered the ship assistance.

But it is no longer necessary to decide the argument on the basis of common sense alone. Like the other claims for Israel’s alleged motive in attacking the Liberty, the one linking the assault to the Golan Heights campaign cannot withstand the scrutiny of the newly declassified documents

With all the comments and history here, one thing I've _never_ seen is any credible reason why Israel would attack a US spy ship. (No, I'm NOT going to play nicey nice and use the "intelligence" label).
This is the first time I've ever seen any answer - namely they Israeli's were hoping the US would believe it was an Egyptian attack - but that's so off the wall it ranks up there with OJ Simpson and the faked Mars landing.
Anyone (and I'm asking seriously) have any plausible explanation why Israel would do so? Thanks

There has been some speculation that the terrorists in Tel Aviv thought the Liberty had collected evidence of Israeli war crimes, executing Egyptian POWs.

“Intelligence” is the correct way to describe the Liberty. It was not a Soviet “fishing boat”. It was clearly a US naval vessel flying the US flag. There was no attempt to hide what it was.

That Israeli killing of Egyptian POWs was kept quiet for decades. It was actually publicized by _Israeli_ media about five years ago (which is probably more like ten or fifteen by now... have you run into that syndrome?), and then picked up by the Egyptians.
The general attitude was one of an "oh, shit, that was bad, but hell, it was war and there wasn't much choice. But still it was bad". And then some shaking of heads. Both on the Israeli and on the Egyptian sides...

I have heard on a youtube video about the USS Liberty that Israel did not want the US to know about, in real time, their taking of the Golan Heights and the massacre of 400-500 Egyptian prisoners of war.

A characteristically courageous, hard-hitting and much-needed article by Philip Giraldi. It was very interesting to learn that “Senator John McCain of Arizona has used his position on the Senate Armed Services Committee to effectively block any reconvening of a board of inquiry to reexamine the evidence.” And I thought that that worthless man already had enough sins on his soul to rival even Lyndon Johnson.

With all the comments and history here, one thing I've _never_ seen is any credible reason why Israel would attack a US spy ship. (No, I'm NOT going to play nicey nice and use the "intelligence" label).
This is the first time I've ever seen any answer - namely they Israeli's were hoping the US would believe it was an Egyptian attack - but that's so off the wall it ranks up there with OJ Simpson and the faked Mars landing.
Anyone (and I'm asking seriously) have any plausible explanation why Israel would do so? Thanks

See #10. We put them up to it, they f**ked up by not sinking the ship…which ultimately gave them a tremendous amount of leverage over us…because what psychos would false flag their own asset?

Mentioning the Liberty is immoral. It leads to ANTI-SEMITISM!!!, which leads to 6 million dead Jews.

Forgetting the Liberty is The Right Thing To Do. Remembering the Liberty = killing 6 million Jews.

All too many fake conservatives want to bury the memory of the USS Liberty. They will go on and on about Benghazi but recoil like vampires confronted with a Cross from anything to do with the Liberty. I have had them tell me that the USS Liberty got what she deserved since she was “an armed spy ship in a war zone”.

A lot of “American” “conservatives” seem rather traitorous on the topic of Israel.

What do you mean “the Liberty incident has been milked for all it’s worth for too long?”

He means he’s loyal to Jewry & Israel first, and America second. I never even heard of the Liberty until I started frequenting ANTI-SEMITIC!!! web sites.

Whites vastly outnumber Jews in this country. The fact that whites allow so much power to be wielded by Jews is a testament to white stupidity.

Let stupid = “not ANTI-SEMITIC!!!” and that’s true.

And the imaginary 12 to 15 point average IQ the Ashkenazim have over average white IQ is overpowering…..evidently

The state of Israel - in reality, a perpetually expansionist colony - is virtually owned (80% of land) by the Rotschild clan. Check out British historian Simon Schama - himself part Jewish - on the subject.

The transfer from ownership of British Palestine to the Jewish people (and nevermind the indigenous, rightful inhabitants, the Palestinians themselves) was bogus and a con right from the start, as the British had no right under natural justice to 'own' Palestine in the first place.

It is additionally bogus since the same clan (who effectively control the Bank of England) financed the war, using and actively promoting the Zionist cult/false flag anti-Jewish attacks to prompt frightened/radicalized Jews to move to the violently acquired lands of Palestine.

The Liberty would likely have revealed significant evidence of mass-killings of Palestinian civilians, so undermining claims of legitimacy, much less moral authority. It had to be stopped - and was.

Netanyahu is but a stooge for the clan and it's ambitions, along with allied wealthy clans to control the Leviathan gas field: they aim to dominate the European market from the Middle East . That was why the Ukraine as a reliable conduit for cheap Russian gas into Europe was deliberately destabilized.

The recognition of the Palestinian state - now gaining serious traction - will seriously challenge hegemony over gas-wealth in the region. Hence the 'planting' of takfiri (ISIL) terrorist cells in Hamas controlled territory and the launching of rocket attacks into 'Israel' as happened recently : such 'threats' must of course be 'countered' - and Palestine remains under siege.

There has been some speculation that the terrorists in Tel Aviv thought the Liberty had collected evidence of Israeli war crimes, executing Egyptian POWs.

"Intelligence" is the correct way to describe the Liberty. It was not a Soviet "fishing boat". It was clearly a US naval vessel flying the US flag. There was no attempt to hide what it was.

That Israeli killing of Egyptian POWs was kept quiet for decades. It was actually publicized by _Israeli_ media about five years ago (which is probably more like ten or fifteen by now… have you run into that syndrome?), and then picked up by the Egyptians.
The general attitude was one of an “oh, shit, that was bad, but hell, it was war and there wasn’t much choice. But still it was bad”. And then some shaking of heads. Both on the Israeli and on the Egyptian sides…

With all the comments and history here, one thing I've _never_ seen is any credible reason why Israel would attack a US spy ship. (No, I'm NOT going to play nicey nice and use the "intelligence" label).
This is the first time I've ever seen any answer - namely they Israeli's were hoping the US would believe it was an Egyptian attack - but that's so off the wall it ranks up there with OJ Simpson and the faked Mars landing.
Anyone (and I'm asking seriously) have any plausible explanation why Israel would do so? Thanks

And yet they did. While it was flying the American flag. An Israeli pilot even asked for confirmation.

The attempt to have the US blame the Egyptians has long been explored and indeed, is not so hard to conceive of in and of itself.

Yeah. As if not being able to pin down the motive means that they didn't know they were attacking a US ship:

From Proceedings Magazine:US Naval Institute of June 2003:

http://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/2003-06/friendless-fire

The jamming of unique U.S. frequencies during the Liberty incident seems to establish deliberate intent. And in exclusive interviews with this author, several former high-level National Security Agency (NSA) officials agree.

On 14 February 2003, the “godfather” of the NSA’s Auxiliary General Technical Research program, Oliver Kirby, noted that the Liberty was “my baby.” Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and “staff reports” at NSA’s Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots’ conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it “absolutely certain” they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby’s is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material.
In an interview on 24 February 2003, retired Air Force Major General John Morrison, the agency’s then-second-in-command (and Kirby’s successor), said he had been informed at the time of Kirby’s findings and endorsed them. Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom said on 3 March 2003 that, on the strength of such data, the attack’s deliberateness “just wasn’t a disputed issue” within the agency. On 5 March 2003, retired Navy Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, NSA director from 1977-1981, said he “flatly rejected” the Cristol/Israeli thesis. “It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [the Liberty] was not correctly identified.” He said this was based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge. All four were unaware of any agency official at that time or later who dissented from the “deliberate” conclusion.

The jamming of unique U.S. frequencies during the Liberty incident seems to establish deliberate intent. And in exclusive interviews with this author, several former high-level National Security Agency (NSA) officials agree.

On 14 February 2003, the “godfather” of the NSA’s Auxiliary General Technical Research program, Oliver Kirby, noted that the Liberty was “my baby.” Within weeks of the calamity, Kirby, deputy director for operations/production, read U.S. signals intelligence (SigInt)-generated transcripts and “staff reports” at NSA’s Fort Meade, Maryland, headquarters. They were of Israeli pilots’ conversations, recorded during the attack. The intercepts made it “absolutely certain” they knew it was a U.S. ship, he said. Kirby’s is the first public disclosure by a top-level NSA senior of deliberate intent based on personal analyses of SigInt material.
In an interview on 24 February 2003, retired Air Force Major General John Morrison, the agency’s then-second-in-command (and Kirby’s successor), said he had been informed at the time of Kirby’s findings and endorsed them. Former NSA Director retired Army Lieutenant General William Odom said on 3 March 2003 that, on the strength of such data, the attack’s deliberateness “just wasn’t a disputed issue” within the agency. On 5 March 2003, retired Navy Admiral Bobby Ray Inman, NSA director from 1977-1981, said he “flatly rejected” the Cristol/Israeli thesis. “It is just exceedingly difficult to believe that [the Liberty] was not correctly identified.” He said this was based on his talks with NSA seniors at the time having direct knowledge. All four were unaware of any agency official at that time or later who dissented from the “deliberate” conclusion.

This is yet another fine commentary by Philip Giraldi. He’s right on target. The USS Liberty’s victims/survivors were abandoned by their own government and the cover-up of that massive wrongdoing continues to this day. To learn more, go to: http://www.gtr5.com

there’s a marvelous line in “Tiger at the Gates” — the senator and lawyer are dithering and raving, spewing nonsense scripted by Sam Shama.
The Queen cuts them off: “We’ve come to expect nonsense. It never seems to fail us.”

Contrary to previous interpretations, Ginor and Remez’s book shows that the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war–well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis.

Ginor and Remez’s startling account details how the Soviet-Arab onslaught was to be unleashed once Israel had been drawn into action and was branded as the aggressor. The Soviets had submarine-based nuclear missiles poised for use against Israel in case it already possessed and tried to use an atomic device, and the USSR prepared and actually began a marine landing on Israel’s shores backed by strategic bombers and fighter squadrons. They sent their most advanced, still-secret aircraft, the MiG-25 Foxbat, on provocative sorties over Israel’s Dimona nuclear complex to prepare the planned attack on it, and to scare Israel into making the first strike. It was only the unpredicted devastation of Israel’s response that narrowly thwarted the Soviet design.

All factors considered –

– Possible US complicity in the effort to take out Israel’s nuclear arsenal?? Was Liberty aware of Dimona?

– LBJ needing Jews to tone down their opposition to Viet Nam war (a thesis that some retired CIA analysts support)

One thing’s for sure: the script the Israelis recite, “we made mistakes, we admit it” — is right out of the zionist playbook, they might as well have tattooed on their foreheads, “we are lying through our teeth but we are certain you will believe us. And by the way, send money. Now. Lots.”

I stand second to no one in my desire to see the Rogue State brought to occasional justice, but the Liberty incident has been milked for all it's worth for too long. Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

You wish, Mr. Hasbara ‘McKenna’.

It is you and those you try to cover for who lack credibility.

Bringing The Liberty atrocity to light can only help stop the destructive domination of this country by violent, supremacist Zionist madmen.

For decades it’s been known to be 100% certain that the Israeli attack on the Liberty was fully intentional. Indeed, when my late friend Bill Odom was running the NSA for Ronald Reagan, he managed to partially circumvent the total media/political blackout of the incident by having the NSA intercepts of the Israeli radio communications included in NSA “training exercises” provided to all young intelligence officers.

But for me, the real mystery has always been “Why?” Attacking the Liberty was an extraordinarily risky action for the Israelis to take, and it’s difficult to see how any of the suggested motives made logical sense from a cost/benefit analysis. Since the attack did go wrong and most of the American servicemen survived, only their massive influence over the American MSM allowed them to escape severe retaliation.

However, maybe the real answer is very simple. From what I’ve read, LBJ had sent the Liberty—our most advanced intelligence ship—to monitor the war and make sure the Israelis didn’t exceed their promises to him, in other words to show the arrogant Israelis “who was boss.” So perhaps the Israeli decision to destroy the vessel and leave no survivors among the American military personnel was simply a response, intended to show America’s president “who was really boss.” If so, it certainly worked, given that the American forces dispatched to rescue the ship and destroy the attackers were repeatedly recalled by orders at the highest level. Later, massive efforts were made to hush up the event and permanently gag all the survivors.

This raises the natural follow-up question, what enormously powerful hold did the Israelis have over LBJ, that they could suddenly deploy at a crucial moment to bend him to their will? Sometimes people speculate about “Democratic Jewish donors” or that sort of thing, but it seems to me that such political leverage just wouldn’t be powerful enough for this sort of extreme situation. I can’t be sure myself, but another commenter upthread raised a plausible possibility…

US support for Israel back in those days was driven by The Cold War. A lot things back in those days was driven by the Cold War...such as the integration of the US Armed Forces...The 1964 Civil Rights Act...the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act...post 1965 Immigration Policy...Jewish Elites in the US took advantage of this to pursue their own agenda.

It is my view that the ideology of the "Blessings of Diversity" is a direct consequence of the Cold War..as was the attack on the USS Liberty. The issue you are raising is the motives of the Israelis back in 1967 which is a separate issue from the Cold War.

In 2015, the "Blessings of Diversity" Party...The Democratic Party....wages a war of conquest against Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia. US White Male Mega CEOS are foaming at the mouth to get ownership of Russia's vast resources...Nothing has changed since NSC-68. "The Blessings of Diversity" is the malodorous very thin veneer that covers-covered the Mafiosa Gangster Racket known as The Cold War..this gets degenerate...repellant...soulless...anti-Christian Hollywood on board with the gang-rape of Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia.

In 1968, Sirhan Sirhan assassinated RFK because he was angry about his plans to send 50 bombers to Israel. A Palestinian man assassinated a popular American presidential candidate several years after a Communist assassinated a popular President.

The Jewish community opposed the Viet Nam war and led opposition to it.

LBJ traded his silence on the Liberty incident for Jewish silence on the Viet Nam war.

A lose-lose solution, as is any arrangement where lies are the heart of the bargain.

“The Jewish community opposed the Viet Nam war and led opposition to it.
LBJ traded his silence on the Liberty incident for Jewish silence on the Viet Nam war.”

Oh really?

So who was Kissinger?

Public opposition to Vietnam was used by supremacist Jews to attack traditional values and turn politics in their favor. To say they opposed what was essentially communist resistance to the US is to ignore the history of Jews and communism.

The attack on the USS Liberty had a profound impact on me that is still not resolved a half-century later. I dropped out of high school and joined the Navy at age 17. I expected to be chipping paint on old ships, but I did well on the intelligence and aptitude tests (multiple choice tests, so maybe I just guessed correctly).

After boot camp, I was sent to tech school to learn crypto systems and I also was trained as a Russian typist — not a linguist, just a typist, although some of the language did sink in. Upon graduating from tech school, I was assigned to the Naval Security Group, then a branch of the National Security Agency.

Like all enlisted men in that work, I was trained to simply process messages and not pay attention or remember the content. That was not a problem for me at the time because I was far more interested in beer and bar girls than in world politics. But in my free time, I read the novel “Exodus” by Leon Uris and I later saw the movie starring Paul Newman. Being young and impressionable, I became a full blown supporter of Israel and a certifiable hater of Arabs.

I had been discharged from the Navy by the time Israel attacked the USS Liberty. I knew immediately that the ship was part of the Naval Security Group and I generally knew its mission. Some of my friends had remained in the Navy and could have been on that ship. I checked the casualty lists, but saw no names of anybody I knew.

At the time, my thinking was still greatly influenced by Leon Uris. I thought that there must be a logical explanation as to why Israel would attack an American ship. There must be a good reason why American politicians did not react as they would have if the attacking country had been other than Israel. In the late 60s, I waited for explanations. I’m still waiting.

For decades it's been known to be 100% certain that the Israeli attack on the Liberty was fully intentional. Indeed, when my late friend Bill Odom was running the NSA for Ronald Reagan, he managed to partially circumvent the total media/political blackout of the incident by having the NSA intercepts of the Israeli radio communications included in NSA "training exercises" provided to all young intelligence officers.

But for me, the real mystery has always been "Why?" Attacking the Liberty was an extraordinarily risky action for the Israelis to take, and it's difficult to see how any of the suggested motives made logical sense from a cost/benefit analysis. Since the attack did go wrong and most of the American servicemen survived, only their massive influence over the American MSM allowed them to escape severe retaliation.

However, maybe the real answer is very simple. From what I've read, LBJ had sent the Liberty---our most advanced intelligence ship---to monitor the war and make sure the Israelis didn't exceed their promises to him, in other words to show the arrogant Israelis "who was boss." So perhaps the Israeli decision to destroy the vessel and leave no survivors among the American military personnel was simply a response, intended to show America's president "who was really boss." If so, it certainly worked, given that the American forces dispatched to rescue the ship and destroy the attackers were repeatedly recalled by orders at the highest level. Later, massive efforts were made to hush up the event and permanently gag all the survivors.

This raises the natural follow-up question, what enormously powerful hold did the Israelis have over LBJ, that they could suddenly deploy at a crucial moment to bend him to their will? Sometimes people speculate about "Democratic Jewish donors" or that sort of thing, but it seems to me that such political leverage just wouldn't be powerful enough for this sort of extreme situation. I can't be sure myself, but another commenter upthread raised a plausible possibility...

what enormously powerful hold did the Israelis have over LBJ, that they could suddenly deploy at a crucial moment to bend him to their will?

The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. Such as finance, higher education, media, science, government advisors and law. White non Jews are in the vast majority and should not let Jews do things that are not in their best interest.

imho the most courageous — and accurate — statement in Giraldi’s essay is this:

[The] USS Liberty incident reveals that there is a price to be paid in blood when one accommodates a rogue state like Israel.

Rogue state status is a fulcrum of neoconservative thinking. Frederick Kagan, the one who is not married to Victoria “f*&k EU” Nuland but to the squeaky-voiced war-lover Kimberly, identified Napoleon as the “model rogue” who demonstrated these patterns:

~ Napoleon viewed the “international order” imposed and enforced by the British empire as oppressive and corrupt, as it was indeed;

~ Napoleon believed his cause was just and that supporters would flock to support the “right;” Napoleon believed that “right makes might.”

~ Napoleon was wrong: most states who were protected by the overweening power of the British empire, corrupt tho it might have been, preferred that corrupt protection to the possibility of a more just arrangement.

~Napoleon’s attempt to disrupt the “established international order” as maintained by the British branded him as a “rogue.”

~ (Ahmadinejad — no longer relevant, but Kagan is on a roll; he’ll find another bogey man) is the Napoleon of our day and Iran is thus a “rogue state.”

Miriam Webster defines rogue in a manner different from that of Fred Kagan –

Thus, in Kagan-think, to fight for the right against an oppressive regime is roguish behavior and immoral. That twist of logic comes about because Kagan’s standard for judging what is moral and immoral is that which assures financial wellbeing to an elite cadre, i.e. the British empire and its elite beneficiaries, and not those rights guaranteed to all men and termed inalienable in the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

Which definition of rogue is not the product of Orwellian double-think, and which definition applies to the rogue state Israel?

For decades it's been known to be 100% certain that the Israeli attack on the Liberty was fully intentional. Indeed, when my late friend Bill Odom was running the NSA for Ronald Reagan, he managed to partially circumvent the total media/political blackout of the incident by having the NSA intercepts of the Israeli radio communications included in NSA "training exercises" provided to all young intelligence officers.

But for me, the real mystery has always been "Why?" Attacking the Liberty was an extraordinarily risky action for the Israelis to take, and it's difficult to see how any of the suggested motives made logical sense from a cost/benefit analysis. Since the attack did go wrong and most of the American servicemen survived, only their massive influence over the American MSM allowed them to escape severe retaliation.

However, maybe the real answer is very simple. From what I've read, LBJ had sent the Liberty---our most advanced intelligence ship---to monitor the war and make sure the Israelis didn't exceed their promises to him, in other words to show the arrogant Israelis "who was boss." So perhaps the Israeli decision to destroy the vessel and leave no survivors among the American military personnel was simply a response, intended to show America's president "who was really boss." If so, it certainly worked, given that the American forces dispatched to rescue the ship and destroy the attackers were repeatedly recalled by orders at the highest level. Later, massive efforts were made to hush up the event and permanently gag all the survivors.

This raises the natural follow-up question, what enormously powerful hold did the Israelis have over LBJ, that they could suddenly deploy at a crucial moment to bend him to their will? Sometimes people speculate about "Democratic Jewish donors" or that sort of thing, but it seems to me that such political leverage just wouldn't be powerful enough for this sort of extreme situation. I can't be sure myself, but another commenter upthread raised a plausible possibility...

US support for Israel back in those days was driven by The Cold War. A lot things back in those days was driven by the Cold War…such as the integration of the US Armed Forces…The 1964 Civil Rights Act…the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act…post 1965 Immigration Policy…Jewish Elites in the US took advantage of this to pursue their own agenda.

It is my view that the ideology of the “Blessings of Diversity” is a direct consequence of the Cold War..as was the attack on the USS Liberty. The issue you are raising is the motives of the Israelis back in 1967 which is a separate issue from the Cold War.

In 2015, the “Blessings of Diversity” Party…The Democratic Party….wages a war of conquest against Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia. US White Male Mega CEOS are foaming at the mouth to get ownership of Russia’s vast resources…Nothing has changed since NSC-68. “The Blessings of Diversity” is the malodorous very thin veneer that covers-covered the Mafiosa Gangster Racket known as The Cold War..this gets degenerate…repellant…soulless…anti-Christian Hollywood on board with the gang-rape of Conservative Orthodox Christian Russia.

Perhaps you are imprudently sure about this "superiority" by omitting a well-known factor of tribal solidarity. Nobody disputes the spectacular achievements of Jewish scholars, entrepreneurs, and neocons. But some of the "achievers" occupy their high places thanks to robust (and sometimes vicious) tribalism and not because of their exception intelligence and ethical norms. "The Myth of American Meritocracy:" http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

The Cold War has been nothing but death and destruction for Native Born White Americans-from the the Israeli Military deliberately slaughtering Native Born White American Teenagers…to the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act(We gotta show those immoral Russkies that we are a morally superior People) which gave us post-1965 race-replacement immigration policy…which gave us such wonderfull “Blessings of Diversity”-Muslim Variety-such as 9/11…The Fort Hood Massacre…and as of yesterday, The Lewiston Maine Police Force recruiting Somali legal immigrant Muslims into the Lewiston Maine Police Force.

The real systemic destruction of the U.S. began in the 1980's. You ever hear of LBO's and it's creator Milken Milken? Well this clown created a way for Wall Street gangsters to raid and loot companies across the U.S. This began the gutting of American industry which goes on to this day. BTW Romney was a practitioner of this, swooping in and selling off key assets and leaving a empty shell of a company to stagger along for a couple of years before expiring.

Millions lost their jobs and pensions because of these Wall Street gangsters.

Then old man Bush came up with NAFTA which Slick Willie signed into law at the urging of Robert Rubin. That giant sucking sound that Perot warned us about became millions of jobs sent to Mexico and the loss of entire industries. Then Slick signed PNTR with China at the urging of Wall Street which sent millions more jobs to Asia this time along with a massive loss of IP. Junior Bush kept up with signing more trade deals that sent jobs overseas. Obama is currently trying to ram TPP through which will probably end the U.S. as we know it.

Then further blows came from Clinton including the ending of Glass-Stegal and the Commodity Futures Trading Act that allowed Wall Street to go nuts. The end result of this was a series of bubbles blown by Wall Street firms that ended up with the implosion of 2007 and the bail out by the Feds via TARP and QE(x) which exploded out debt to levels unseen.

Now what does this have to do with whites? Well pretty much everything. First off the loss of well paying jobs in manufacturing and tech sectors harms everyone. From harming communities and neighborhoods across the country. To working and middle-class that become impoverished as the jobs go overseas - why do you think the middle-class is dying. This resulted in families being busted up and stops young people from having families because there are no decent paying jobs available.

Today the damage manifests itself with college graduates ending up living at home with mom and dad, or worse going back to school for that MS or ph.d and by the time they graduate from that, the women are usually no longer capable of having children. And even they aren't, they are saddled with enormous college debt which means if they're lucky they can have one kid.

We need to wake up and see that there is a war being waged against us, not only by the Jews but by the white elites as well. The white elites who support this stuff reads like whose who of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and D.C.

For decades it's been known to be 100% certain that the Israeli attack on the Liberty was fully intentional. Indeed, when my late friend Bill Odom was running the NSA for Ronald Reagan, he managed to partially circumvent the total media/political blackout of the incident by having the NSA intercepts of the Israeli radio communications included in NSA "training exercises" provided to all young intelligence officers.

But for me, the real mystery has always been "Why?" Attacking the Liberty was an extraordinarily risky action for the Israelis to take, and it's difficult to see how any of the suggested motives made logical sense from a cost/benefit analysis. Since the attack did go wrong and most of the American servicemen survived, only their massive influence over the American MSM allowed them to escape severe retaliation.

However, maybe the real answer is very simple. From what I've read, LBJ had sent the Liberty---our most advanced intelligence ship---to monitor the war and make sure the Israelis didn't exceed their promises to him, in other words to show the arrogant Israelis "who was boss." So perhaps the Israeli decision to destroy the vessel and leave no survivors among the American military personnel was simply a response, intended to show America's president "who was really boss." If so, it certainly worked, given that the American forces dispatched to rescue the ship and destroy the attackers were repeatedly recalled by orders at the highest level. Later, massive efforts were made to hush up the event and permanently gag all the survivors.

This raises the natural follow-up question, what enormously powerful hold did the Israelis have over LBJ, that they could suddenly deploy at a crucial moment to bend him to their will? Sometimes people speculate about "Democratic Jewish donors" or that sort of thing, but it seems to me that such political leverage just wouldn't be powerful enough for this sort of extreme situation. I can't be sure myself, but another commenter upthread raised a plausible possibility...

In 1968, Sirhan Sirhan assassinated RFK because he was angry about his plans to send 50 bombers to Israel. A Palestinian man assassinated a popular American presidential candidate several years after a Communist assassinated a popular President.

there's a marvelous line in "Tiger at the Gates" -- the senator and lawyer are dithering and raving, spewing nonsense scripted by Sam Shama.The Queen cuts them off: "We've come to expect nonsense. It never seems to fail us."

Contrary to previous interpretations, Ginor and Remez’s book shows that the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war--well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis.

Ginor and Remez’s startling account details how the Soviet-Arab onslaught was to be unleashed once Israel had been drawn into action and was branded as the aggressor. The Soviets had submarine-based nuclear missiles poised for use against Israel in case it already possessed and tried to use an atomic device, and the USSR prepared and actually began a marine landing on Israel’s shores backed by strategic bombers and fighter squadrons. They sent their most advanced, still-secret aircraft, the MiG-25 Foxbat, on provocative sorties over Israel’s Dimona nuclear complex to prepare the planned attack on it, and to scare Israel into making the first strike. It was only the unpredicted devastation of Israel’s response that narrowly thwarted the Soviet design.

All factors considered --

-- Possible US complicity in the effort to take out Israel's nuclear arsenal?? Was Liberty aware of Dimona?

-- LBJ needing Jews to tone down their opposition to Viet Nam war (a thesis that some retired CIA analysts support)

One thing's for sure: the script the Israelis recite, "we made mistakes, we admit it" -- is right out of the zionist playbook, they might as well have tattooed on their foreheads, "we are lying through our teeth but we are certain you will believe us. And by the way, send money. Now. Lots."

imho the most courageous -- and accurate -- statement in Giraldi's essay is this:

[The] USS Liberty incident reveals that there is a price to be paid in blood when one accommodates a rogue state like Israel.

Rogue state status is a fulcrum of neoconservative thinking. Frederick Kagan, the one who is not married to Victoria "f*&k EU" Nuland but to the squeaky-voiced war-lover Kimberly, identified Napoleon as the "model rogue" who demonstrated these patterns:

~ Napoleon viewed the "international order" imposed and enforced by the British empire as oppressive and corrupt, as it was indeed;

~ Napoleon believed his cause was just and that supporters would flock to support the "right;" Napoleon believed that "right makes might."

~ Napoleon was wrong: most states who were protected by the overweening power of the British empire, corrupt tho it might have been, preferred that corrupt protection to the possibility of a more just arrangement.

~Napoleon's attempt to disrupt the "established international order" as maintained by the British branded him as a "rogue."

~ (Ahmadinejad -- no longer relevant, but Kagan is on a roll; he'll find another bogey man) is the Napoleon of our day and Iran is thus a "rogue state."

Miriam Webster defines rogue in a manner different from that of Fred Kagan --

Thus, in Kagan-think, to fight for the right against an oppressive regime is roguish behavior and immoral. That twist of logic comes about because Kagan's standard for judging what is moral and immoral is that which assures financial wellbeing to an elite cadre, i.e. the British empire and its elite beneficiaries, and not those rights guaranteed to all men and termed inalienable in the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

Which definition of rogue is not the product of Orwellian double-think, and which definition applies to the rogue state Israel?

which definition applies to the rogue state Israel?

The Oxford definition applies to Israel (as well as the USA and its’ several allies)

rogue state
noun
a nation or state regarded as breaking international law and posing a threat to the security of other nations

“The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and using gunboats from the sea.”

Citation, please?

While I read it some years ago, I do not recall this obscuring of aircraft markings being mentioned in Assault on the Liberty by James Ennes (who was aboard the Liberty when it was attacked), nor in any credible eyewitness account. I might be mistaken…

Or is this just more anti-Semitism from Mr. Giraldi?

I have never been satisfied with the way the Liberty incident was handled by any involved party except the crew at the time of the attack (is there really movie footage of the attack, captured through a submarine’s periscope?), but making stuff up because you hate Jews isn’t the way to convince people that you are correct.

SumDood - One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html

Here at Unz we have a policy of allowing everyone to express their opinions freely, but I find your insinuations extremely offensive. If you think I "hate Jews" and engage in "more anti-Semitism" perhaps you can exercise your freedom of choice to avoid my articles in the future and find another website to engage in your brand of repulsive innuendo.

While Knesset is striving to proclaim Israel a Jewish State, for now Israel is first and foremost a center of Zionism. It is not honest to equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

As for the irritation with any critique of Israel' deeds, not long time ago, a private conversation of an honorable octogenarian had been used to destroy her career with the cruelty and viciousness that are rarely encountered. So please leave the honorable Philip Giraldi alone. He cares about the US and the people that defend this country.

"The Jewish community opposed the Viet Nam war and led opposition to it.
LBJ traded his silence on the Liberty incident for Jewish silence on the Viet Nam war."

Oh really?

So who was Kissinger?

Public opposition to Vietnam was used by supremacist Jews to attack traditional values and turn politics in their favor. To say they opposed what was essentially communist resistance to the US is to ignore the history of Jews and communism.

Israeli defense officials believe that the militants responsible for the rocket fire belong to a "rogue group."

A radical Islamist Salafist group posted a statement on Twitter claiming responsibility for firing the rockets, saying three rockets were fired. The group, calling itself the Omar Brigades, said the cross-border shooting on Wednesday was in retaliation for Hamas' killing of an Islamic state supporter a day earlier in Gaza."We are continuing with our jihad against the Jews, the enemies of God and no one will be able to deter us," the statement said, using the term in Arabic for holy war.

Defense Minister Ya'alon said in a press release on Thursday morning that the IDF struck Hamas targets because even if the militants who fired the rockets belong to "rogue gangs" from the Islamic Jihad, Israel holds Hamas "responsible for what is happening in the Strip."

The Cold War has been nothing but death and destruction for Native Born White Americans-from the the Israeli Military deliberately slaughtering Native Born White American Teenagers...to the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act(We gotta show those immoral Russkies that we are a morally superior People) which gave us post-1965 race-replacement immigration policy...which gave us such wonderfull "Blessings of Diversity"-Muslim Variety-such as 9/11...The Fort Hood Massacre...and as of yesterday, The Lewiston Maine Police Force recruiting Somali legal immigrant Muslims into the Lewiston Maine Police Force.

The real systemic destruction of the U.S. began in the 1980′s. You ever hear of LBO’s and it’s creator Milken Milken? Well this clown created a way for Wall Street gangsters to raid and loot companies across the U.S. This began the gutting of American industry which goes on to this day. BTW Romney was a practitioner of this, swooping in and selling off key assets and leaving a empty shell of a company to stagger along for a couple of years before expiring.

Millions lost their jobs and pensions because of these Wall Street gangsters.

Then old man Bush came up with NAFTA which Slick Willie signed into law at the urging of Robert Rubin. That giant sucking sound that Perot warned us about became millions of jobs sent to Mexico and the loss of entire industries. Then Slick signed PNTR with China at the urging of Wall Street which sent millions more jobs to Asia this time along with a massive loss of IP. Junior Bush kept up with signing more trade deals that sent jobs overseas. Obama is currently trying to ram TPP through which will probably end the U.S. as we know it.

Then further blows came from Clinton including the ending of Glass-Stegal and the Commodity Futures Trading Act that allowed Wall Street to go nuts. The end result of this was a series of bubbles blown by Wall Street firms that ended up with the implosion of 2007 and the bail out by the Feds via TARP and QE(x) which exploded out debt to levels unseen.

Now what does this have to do with whites? Well pretty much everything. First off the loss of well paying jobs in manufacturing and tech sectors harms everyone. From harming communities and neighborhoods across the country. To working and middle-class that become impoverished as the jobs go overseas – why do you think the middle-class is dying. This resulted in families being busted up and stops young people from having families because there are no decent paying jobs available.

Today the damage manifests itself with college graduates ending up living at home with mom and dad, or worse going back to school for that MS or ph.d and by the time they graduate from that, the women are usually no longer capable of having children. And even they aren’t, they are saddled with enormous college debt which means if they’re lucky they can have one kid.

We need to wake up and see that there is a war being waged against us, not only by the Jews but by the white elites as well. The white elites who support this stuff reads like whose who of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and D.C.

Your post is depressing because it is true...but you leave out the fact that the labor supply in US domestic labor markets has increased massively since the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act....and the increase in labor supply also includes the number of nonwhite children born to nonwhite legal immigrants and illegal immigrants post-1965. The significance of this is as follows:the supply of labor in US Labor Markets was much larger in the early years after the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act than is commonly believed. Moreover, the nonwhite scab labor born to nonwhite legal immigrant scab labor were part of a mighty powerfull high fertility highly racialized Democratic Party Voting Block that voted to massively increase the supply nonwhite legal immigrant scab labor and nonwhite illegal immigrant scab labor ...This is what you call increasing returns on steroids.

What you wrote about the 1980s is a direct consequence of the massive wealth transfer to the White Liberal Greedy Cheating Class which was a consequence of the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act....As their bank accounts grew..so did their control over the US Economy and US Labor Markets.

Micheal Milken came up with junk bonds. Prior to Milken, brokerage houses were partnerships and very reluctant to float securities (stocks or bonds) on new and unproven companies. Milken realized that capital wasn't scarce, it was everywhere. He also realized there were plenty of people who did not want stocks and needed a good income stream. We had just existed a bear market starting in 1966 where stocks were established companies were now trading at 1/2 book value.

Milken was a smart guy and could recognize good businesses and good management. He got a higher rate of return for his investors and the companies got cash to expand they were never going to get from traditional Wall Street firms. One of the companies he financed was the alternate long distance phone service pioneer MCI.

LBOs happened because people could see that they could borrow money to buy up all the stock of a company, sell off half it's assets, and keep the rest for themselves free and clear.

The first people to do it with were those in the oil patch like Boone Pickens who ran a smallish oil company but realized he could buy all the stock in a major company for less than the cost of buying their oil producing properties.

The initial LBOs were not the crap that came later when every brokerage in town tried to horn in on Milkens game. Just as we saw with the S&L crisis and the Housing bust - more competition leads to lowered standards as people need to get deals done to get those commissions.

NAFTA was negotiated by GHWB but only because Reagan couldn't get the Mexicans on board. They needed another economic crisis and (I am guessing) promises to look the other way on illegals leaving the farms when US corn started flooding into Mexico (Brimlow at Vdare has claimed this) and bailout money if they needed it (which Clinton provided).

When I was a kid the peso was 12 to a dollar. When I was in college it was 20 to 1. Prior to NAFTA the Mexican government loped off three zeros to make a new peso which has stayed roughly 10 to 1 since NAFTA.

For decades it's been known to be 100% certain that the Israeli attack on the Liberty was fully intentional. Indeed, when my late friend Bill Odom was running the NSA for Ronald Reagan, he managed to partially circumvent the total media/political blackout of the incident by having the NSA intercepts of the Israeli radio communications included in NSA "training exercises" provided to all young intelligence officers.

But for me, the real mystery has always been "Why?" Attacking the Liberty was an extraordinarily risky action for the Israelis to take, and it's difficult to see how any of the suggested motives made logical sense from a cost/benefit analysis. Since the attack did go wrong and most of the American servicemen survived, only their massive influence over the American MSM allowed them to escape severe retaliation.

However, maybe the real answer is very simple. From what I've read, LBJ had sent the Liberty---our most advanced intelligence ship---to monitor the war and make sure the Israelis didn't exceed their promises to him, in other words to show the arrogant Israelis "who was boss." So perhaps the Israeli decision to destroy the vessel and leave no survivors among the American military personnel was simply a response, intended to show America's president "who was really boss." If so, it certainly worked, given that the American forces dispatched to rescue the ship and destroy the attackers were repeatedly recalled by orders at the highest level. Later, massive efforts were made to hush up the event and permanently gag all the survivors.

This raises the natural follow-up question, what enormously powerful hold did the Israelis have over LBJ, that they could suddenly deploy at a crucial moment to bend him to their will? Sometimes people speculate about "Democratic Jewish donors" or that sort of thing, but it seems to me that such political leverage just wouldn't be powerful enough for this sort of extreme situation. I can't be sure myself, but another commenter upthread raised a plausible possibility...

LBJ had always been close to Israel, giving Jews safe haven during WWII (rightly) and quite possibly had crypto Jewish ancestry that many do in Texas and the SW.

Neither is a good thing–my point is you cannot ipso facto assume every single Jewish person supports all the policies of the State of Israel, any more than you can assume every American supports all the ridiculous things our country does.

The Lobby’s quite powerful, but let’s not get too intellectually lazy here.

"Neither is a good thing–my point is you cannot ipso facto assume every single Jewish person supports all the policies of the State of Israel, any more than you can assume every American supports all the ridiculous things our country does."

I never said all Jews support it. The fact is the Jews have to much control of our government.

It is obvious – it is for all to see. The upshot of the USS Liberty is that the Jews have no loyalty to anyone. They are a one of – a different tribal being – a disconnect entity that is always separated from the rest of humanity – it is their culture – it is what they hear from birth.

From birth they are taught to be cleaver with words – a more honest word for “clever” is “devious.” Devious means less than honest – it means no integrity – it means tricking people with words. In time it always comes to a zero-sum confrontation with a winner and a loser. “With words we make war” – Mossad.

What devious reason the Jews had for killing the sailors of their major benefactor may never be known – but they did it, and they did it with a malicious intent to kill.

Our lesson is to NEVER have dealings with Jews – in the end they will get you – it is their culture – is this not obvious?

The most mind-blowing thing was the proposed Grafton Memorial Library for the ‘Liberty’ servicemen. Even though the Israeli role was played down the proposal was nonetheless denouced as anti-Semitic.

An editorial in the Milwaukee Journal thundered ‘where is the outrage in Grafton? Why is there no outcry?’ Now let me be clear, because we’re talking about an upside down world here. The requested outrage and outcry were against the idea of commemorating American servicemen who had given their lives for their country, because such commemoration might offend the sensitivities of the people who cost them their lives!

"The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and using gunboats from the sea."

Citation, please?

While I read it some years ago, I do not recall this obscuring of aircraft markings being mentioned in Assault on the Liberty by James Ennes (who was aboard the Liberty when it was attacked), nor in any credible eyewitness account. I might be mistaken...

Or is this just more anti-Semitism from Mr. Giraldi?

I have never been satisfied with the way the Liberty incident was handled by any involved party except the crew at the time of the attack (is there really movie footage of the attack, captured through a submarine's periscope?), but making stuff up because you hate Jews isn't the way to convince people that you are correct.

SumDood – One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

Here at Unz we have a policy of allowing everyone to express their opinions freely, but I find your insinuations extremely offensive. If you think I “hate Jews” and engage in “more anti-Semitism” perhaps you can exercise your freedom of choice to avoid my articles in the future and find another website to engage in your brand of repulsive innuendo.

SumDood – One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html

Some reliable source you've got there!

This incident has been thoroughly examined and re-examined going on fifty years. If it wasn't laid to rest after the investigations at the time, it was after the key documents were declassified about ten years ago.

This discussion isn't going to get very far as long as you rely on sources within your own little echo chamber, while angrily rejecting everything else as part of your obsession with some kind of grand international Jewish conspiracy.

In other words, no one other than your own acolytes will take you seriously, and you'll be forever limited to flinging insults at us sane people in the world outside the ward.

The website you provided as "proof" is transparently anti-Israel (just read the banner at the top!), and cites people who were not on the Liberty during the attack.

Your claim is absurd and unsubstantiated, and I will not stop describing it thusly until you provide an eyewitness account of this alleged obscuring of aircraft markings. That's all I ask, and it is a very reasonable standard to hold to. If the aircraft weren't marked, McGonagle or Ennes would have said so on the record.

And, during a time of war (which was when the Liberty was attacked), when the enemies that surround Israel were using the exact same Mirage jets that Israel was flying, clearly identifying your own aircraft would appear to be mandatory to prevent fratricide.

And before you begin indignantly hyperventilating, please take note that I (a lapsed Catholic with no personal stake in Israel) have never claimed that the attack on the Liberty was an accident, or that it never happened. I just want the facts.

As to your declaration about my going elsewhere because you feel bad that I accurately described the anti-Israel bias of the authors and commenters at Unz...All I can say is that fish aren't aware of the water they are swimming in, and you seem similarly oblivious to the veiled bigotry here. Anti-Semitism is a slippery slope, and there seems to be a large number of people here that are caught up in saying "wheeee!" as the wind rushes past them on the slide.

That claimed IQ advantage is due to the fact Ashkenazi IQ is separated out from the IQ of Jews as a whole, who are really quite mediocre.

Well, a couple of problems with that argument, the first being that Ashkenazis make up 85% of all Jews.

Now if we separate out specific European groups, say real Germans, real Austrians, & real Scandinavians from their lower IQ immigrants we see a completely different story.

The second problem is that immigrants' IQs are generally higher, not lower, than the populations from which they emigrate.

Want to try again?

Perhaps you are imprudently sure about this “superiority” by omitting a well-known factor of tribal solidarity. Nobody disputes the spectacular achievements of Jewish scholars, entrepreneurs, and neocons. But some of the “achievers” occupy their high places thanks to robust (and sometimes vicious) tribalism and not because of their exception intelligence and ethical norms. “The Myth of American Meritocracy:” http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/the-myth-of-american-meritocracy/

Israeli defense officials believe that the militants responsible for the rocket fire belong to a “rogue group.”

A radical Islamist Salafist group posted a statement on Twitter claiming responsibility for firing the rockets, saying three rockets were fired. The group, calling itself the Omar Brigades, said the cross-border shooting on Wednesday was in retaliation for Hamas’ killing of an Islamic state supporter a day earlier in Gaza.”We are continuing with our jihad against the Jews, the enemies of God and no one will be able to deter us,” the statement said, using the term in Arabic for holy war.

Defense Minister Ya’alon said in a press release on Thursday morning that the IDF struck Hamas targets because even if the militants who fired the rockets belong to “rogue gangs” from the Islamic Jihad, Israel holds Hamas “responsible for what is happening in the Strip.“

"The Israelis, whose planes had their Star of David markings covered up so Egypt could be blamed, attacked the ship repeatedly from the air and using gunboats from the sea."

Citation, please?

While I read it some years ago, I do not recall this obscuring of aircraft markings being mentioned in Assault on the Liberty by James Ennes (who was aboard the Liberty when it was attacked), nor in any credible eyewitness account. I might be mistaken...

Or is this just more anti-Semitism from Mr. Giraldi?

I have never been satisfied with the way the Liberty incident was handled by any involved party except the crew at the time of the attack (is there really movie footage of the attack, captured through a submarine's periscope?), but making stuff up because you hate Jews isn't the way to convince people that you are correct.

What is wrong with the desire to honor the fallen on duty?

While Knesset is striving to proclaim Israel a Jewish State, for now Israel is first and foremost a center of Zionism. It is not honest to equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism.

As for the irritation with any critique of Israel’ deeds, not long time ago, a private conversation of an honorable octogenarian had been used to destroy her career with the cruelty and viciousness that are rarely encountered. So please leave the honorable Philip Giraldi alone. He cares about the US and the people that defend this country.

Neither is a good thing--my point is you cannot ipso facto assume every single Jewish person supports all the policies of the State of Israel, any more than you can assume every American supports all the ridiculous things our country does.

The Lobby's quite powerful, but let's not get too intellectually lazy here.

“Neither is a good thing–my point is you cannot ipso facto assume every single Jewish person supports all the policies of the State of Israel, any more than you can assume every American supports all the ridiculous things our country does.”

I never said all Jews support it. The fact is the Jews have to much control of our government.

That claimed IQ advantage is due to the fact Ashkenazi IQ is separated out from the IQ of Jews as a whole, who are really quite mediocre.

Now if we separate out specific European groups, say real Germans, real Austrians, & real Scandinavians from their lower IQ immigrants we see a completely different story.

Don't be duped by a Jew dominated media.

'All The News Jews Feel Fit To Print'

The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. Such as finance, higher education, media, science, government advisors and law. White non Jews are in the vast majority and should not let Jews do things that are not in their best interest.

Whites vastly outnumber Jews in this country. The fact that whites allow so much power to be wielded by Jews is a testament to white stupidity.

There was a time when somebody could accuse Jews of supporting policies not in the best long term interest of the country and it would just be another idea to ponder. Now it is “hate speech” and forbidden. This isn’t the result of stupidity.

In 1968, Sirhan Sirhan assassinated RFK because he was angry about his plans to send 50 bombers to Israel. A Palestinian man assassinated a popular American presidential candidate several years after a Communist assassinated a popular President.

Hmmm...................

And he was Christian ( orthodox ) . His family was sponsored to come to US.

The real systemic destruction of the U.S. began in the 1980's. You ever hear of LBO's and it's creator Milken Milken? Well this clown created a way for Wall Street gangsters to raid and loot companies across the U.S. This began the gutting of American industry which goes on to this day. BTW Romney was a practitioner of this, swooping in and selling off key assets and leaving a empty shell of a company to stagger along for a couple of years before expiring.

Millions lost their jobs and pensions because of these Wall Street gangsters.

Then old man Bush came up with NAFTA which Slick Willie signed into law at the urging of Robert Rubin. That giant sucking sound that Perot warned us about became millions of jobs sent to Mexico and the loss of entire industries. Then Slick signed PNTR with China at the urging of Wall Street which sent millions more jobs to Asia this time along with a massive loss of IP. Junior Bush kept up with signing more trade deals that sent jobs overseas. Obama is currently trying to ram TPP through which will probably end the U.S. as we know it.

Then further blows came from Clinton including the ending of Glass-Stegal and the Commodity Futures Trading Act that allowed Wall Street to go nuts. The end result of this was a series of bubbles blown by Wall Street firms that ended up with the implosion of 2007 and the bail out by the Feds via TARP and QE(x) which exploded out debt to levels unseen.

Now what does this have to do with whites? Well pretty much everything. First off the loss of well paying jobs in manufacturing and tech sectors harms everyone. From harming communities and neighborhoods across the country. To working and middle-class that become impoverished as the jobs go overseas - why do you think the middle-class is dying. This resulted in families being busted up and stops young people from having families because there are no decent paying jobs available.

Today the damage manifests itself with college graduates ending up living at home with mom and dad, or worse going back to school for that MS or ph.d and by the time they graduate from that, the women are usually no longer capable of having children. And even they aren't, they are saddled with enormous college debt which means if they're lucky they can have one kid.

We need to wake up and see that there is a war being waged against us, not only by the Jews but by the white elites as well. The white elites who support this stuff reads like whose who of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and D.C.

We either start fighting back or we'll end up as serfs.

Your post is depressing because it is true…but you leave out the fact that the labor supply in US domestic labor markets has increased massively since the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act….and the increase in labor supply also includes the number of nonwhite children born to nonwhite legal immigrants and illegal immigrants post-1965. The significance of this is as follows:the supply of labor in US Labor Markets was much larger in the early years after the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act than is commonly believed. Moreover, the nonwhite scab labor born to nonwhite legal immigrant scab labor were part of a mighty powerfull high fertility highly racialized Democratic Party Voting Block that voted to massively increase the supply nonwhite legal immigrant scab labor and nonwhite illegal immigrant scab labor …This is what you call increasing returns on steroids.

What you wrote about the 1980s is a direct consequence of the massive wealth transfer to the White Liberal Greedy Cheating Class which was a consequence of the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act….As their bank accounts grew..so did their control over the US Economy and US Labor Markets.

It has no sense to differentiate wealthy Dem power brokers from wealthy GOP power brokers. For instance, the White Greedy Cheating Class of Republican persuasion has been very adept at using the unskilled labor. If the Republican block was ever serious about illegal immigration, the various law-skilled law-paying job positions in Agrobyz, Construction, and Meat&poultry gigantic complexes and such would not be filled to the brim by illegals. There was never a talk about fining big businesses for hiring illegals.

The real systemic destruction of the U.S. began in the 1980's. You ever hear of LBO's and it's creator Milken Milken? Well this clown created a way for Wall Street gangsters to raid and loot companies across the U.S. This began the gutting of American industry which goes on to this day. BTW Romney was a practitioner of this, swooping in and selling off key assets and leaving a empty shell of a company to stagger along for a couple of years before expiring.

Millions lost their jobs and pensions because of these Wall Street gangsters.

Then old man Bush came up with NAFTA which Slick Willie signed into law at the urging of Robert Rubin. That giant sucking sound that Perot warned us about became millions of jobs sent to Mexico and the loss of entire industries. Then Slick signed PNTR with China at the urging of Wall Street which sent millions more jobs to Asia this time along with a massive loss of IP. Junior Bush kept up with signing more trade deals that sent jobs overseas. Obama is currently trying to ram TPP through which will probably end the U.S. as we know it.

Then further blows came from Clinton including the ending of Glass-Stegal and the Commodity Futures Trading Act that allowed Wall Street to go nuts. The end result of this was a series of bubbles blown by Wall Street firms that ended up with the implosion of 2007 and the bail out by the Feds via TARP and QE(x) which exploded out debt to levels unseen.

Now what does this have to do with whites? Well pretty much everything. First off the loss of well paying jobs in manufacturing and tech sectors harms everyone. From harming communities and neighborhoods across the country. To working and middle-class that become impoverished as the jobs go overseas - why do you think the middle-class is dying. This resulted in families being busted up and stops young people from having families because there are no decent paying jobs available.

Today the damage manifests itself with college graduates ending up living at home with mom and dad, or worse going back to school for that MS or ph.d and by the time they graduate from that, the women are usually no longer capable of having children. And even they aren't, they are saddled with enormous college debt which means if they're lucky they can have one kid.

We need to wake up and see that there is a war being waged against us, not only by the Jews but by the white elites as well. The white elites who support this stuff reads like whose who of Silicon Valley, Wall Street and D.C.

We either start fighting back or we'll end up as serfs.

Micheal Milken came up with junk bonds. Prior to Milken, brokerage houses were partnerships and very reluctant to float securities (stocks or bonds) on new and unproven companies. Milken realized that capital wasn’t scarce, it was everywhere. He also realized there were plenty of people who did not want stocks and needed a good income stream. We had just existed a bear market starting in 1966 where stocks were established companies were now trading at 1/2 book value.

Milken was a smart guy and could recognize good businesses and good management. He got a higher rate of return for his investors and the companies got cash to expand they were never going to get from traditional Wall Street firms. One of the companies he financed was the alternate long distance phone service pioneer MCI.

LBOs happened because people could see that they could borrow money to buy up all the stock of a company, sell off half it’s assets, and keep the rest for themselves free and clear.

The first people to do it with were those in the oil patch like Boone Pickens who ran a smallish oil company but realized he could buy all the stock in a major company for less than the cost of buying their oil producing properties.

The initial LBOs were not the crap that came later when every brokerage in town tried to horn in on Milkens game. Just as we saw with the S&L crisis and the Housing bust – more competition leads to lowered standards as people need to get deals done to get those commissions.

NAFTA was negotiated by GHWB but only because Reagan couldn’t get the Mexicans on board. They needed another economic crisis and (I am guessing) promises to look the other way on illegals leaving the farms when US corn started flooding into Mexico (Brimlow at Vdare has claimed this) and bailout money if they needed it (which Clinton provided).

When I was a kid the peso was 12 to a dollar. When I was in college it was 20 to 1. Prior to NAFTA the Mexican government loped off three zeros to make a new peso which has stayed roughly 10 to 1 since NAFTA.

The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. Such as finance, higher education, media, science, government advisors and law. White non Jews are in the vast majority and should not let Jews do things that are not in their best interest.

“The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. “

Gee – did all those Jews earn those positions – or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?

This whole schtick, "we demand that you bow down and worship a holocaust that didn't happen as we insist it did but we need you to believe it did so that Jews and Israel can continue to keep a noose around the neck of American policy" has cost the people of the United States about 100 years in lost opportunity.

China is forging ahead with plans for a future brought about by non-violent investment --- opportunistic, to be sure, but mutually beneficial and exhibiting a modicum of respect for the people and lands where it hopes to invest in infrastructure and commerce.

Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.0Lsmx7s2.dpuf

If that murderous trio did not wage war because of what was happening to the Jews, then why DID they wage war against Germany? And why are we allowing our schoolchildren to be brainwashed that way?

American school children are forced to venerate Saint Ann Frank, and to overlook the fraud of Elie Wiesel while ingesting his phony rendition of being at a camp whose identity he can't seem to remember and which didn't do what he says it did and he wasn't there when it did/didn't do what he alleged it did anyway.

This is the backward-looking mire the holocaust industry has snared the USA in -- that fraudulent "survivor-ancestor worship" and the genocidal myths that undergird it and the liar's victory that has propelled the USA into more genocidal wars in search of the artificial high that the USA experienced when it got away with the mass murder of German, Russian, and Japanese civilians and called it Victory.

That "victory" has been an anchor around the necks of the American Constitutional republic, dragging it into the cesspool of Abrahamism when its intended destination was the creative individual liberty envisioned by USA's founders who pledged "their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor" to establish a unique experiment in self-government.

That experiment has been exploited and despoiled by zionism and holocaustism.

Your questions, Realist and Art --

Realist: “The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. “

Art: Gee – did all those Jews earn those positions – or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?What do you think?

--are beyond irrelevant.

Who gives a flying fuck?

The United States of America, a Constitutional republic posited on the notion that all men are created equal by a creator who does not have a limiting name or set of "chosen" people, is in a position where it has lost the capacity to compete in any way that does not involve killing people in massive numbers.

We have zionists to thank for that tragic turn of events. People like Phil Weiss and Jane Eisner tell us so -- "Jews are the new elite," they remind us every so often -- as often as is required by appropriately gamed random reinforcement indicates will maintain the notion that non-Jews are the untermenschen and vassals of the New Jewish Elite.

The USA has travelled backward a thousand years, maybe more; meanwhile, China, Iran, even Russia have stood back and watched the (Hollywood-produced) show as the USA deconstructs itself and destroys others.

Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex with its compulsion to bray about your "meritocracy'" and fuck you Sam Shama and your inferiority complex with its compulsion to make sure and anonymous audience who doesn't care a wit about you that you "have a PhD," and and "IQ of 204."

Your post is depressing because it is true...but you leave out the fact that the labor supply in US domestic labor markets has increased massively since the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act....and the increase in labor supply also includes the number of nonwhite children born to nonwhite legal immigrants and illegal immigrants post-1965. The significance of this is as follows:the supply of labor in US Labor Markets was much larger in the early years after the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act than is commonly believed. Moreover, the nonwhite scab labor born to nonwhite legal immigrant scab labor were part of a mighty powerfull high fertility highly racialized Democratic Party Voting Block that voted to massively increase the supply nonwhite legal immigrant scab labor and nonwhite illegal immigrant scab labor ...This is what you call increasing returns on steroids.

What you wrote about the 1980s is a direct consequence of the massive wealth transfer to the White Liberal Greedy Cheating Class which was a consequence of the passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act....As their bank accounts grew..so did their control over the US Economy and US Labor Markets.

It has no sense to differentiate wealthy Dem power brokers from wealthy GOP power brokers. For instance, the White Greedy Cheating Class of Republican persuasion has been very adept at using the unskilled labor. If the Republican block was ever serious about illegal immigration, the various law-skilled law-paying job positions in Agrobyz, Construction, and Meat&poultry gigantic complexes and such would not be filled to the brim by illegals. There was never a talk about fining big businesses for hiring illegals.

Surprisingly, only Clinton ever actually did anything about corporations hiring illegals. He put that under the RICO statutes. Unfortunately, nobody ever prosecutes any corporation using this. The few times they have used them they have gotten the company to plead guilty and agree to a large fine (cost of doing business) that is later reduced (as much as 90%) in negotiations with the Justice Department when nobody is looking.

"The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. "

Gee - did all those Jews earn those positions - or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?

What do you think?

This whole schtick, “we demand that you bow down and worship a holocaust that didn’t happen as we insist it did but we need you to believe it did so that Jews and Israel can continue to keep a noose around the neck of American policy” has cost the people of the United States about 100 years in lost opportunity.

China is forging ahead with plans for a future brought about by non-violent investment — opportunistic, to be sure, but mutually beneficial and exhibiting a modicum of respect for the people and lands where it hopes to invest in infrastructure and commerce.

Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. – See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.0Lsmx7s2.dpuf

If that murderous trio did not wage war because of what was happening to the Jews, then why DID they wage war against Germany? And why are we allowing our schoolchildren to be brainwashed that way?

American school children are forced to venerate Saint Ann Frank, and to overlook the fraud of Elie Wiesel while ingesting his phony rendition of being at a camp whose identity he can’t seem to remember and which didn’t do what he says it did and he wasn’t there when it did/didn’t do what he alleged it did anyway.

This is the backward-looking mire the holocaust industry has snared the USA in — that fraudulent “survivor-ancestor worship” and the genocidal myths that undergird it and the liar’s victory that has propelled the USA into more genocidal wars in search of the artificial high that the USA experienced when it got away with the mass murder of German, Russian, and Japanese civilians and called it Victory.

That “victory” has been an anchor around the necks of the American Constitutional republic, dragging it into the cesspool of Abrahamism when its intended destination was the creative individual liberty envisioned by USA’s founders who pledged “their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor” to establish a unique experiment in self-government.

That experiment has been exploited and despoiled by zionism and holocaustism.

Your questions, Realist and Art –

Realist: “The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. “

Art: Gee – did all those Jews earn those positions – or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?
What do you think?

–are beyond irrelevant.

Who gives a flying fuck?

The United States of America, a Constitutional republic posited on the notion that all men are created equal by a creator who does not have a limiting name or set of “chosen” people, is in a position where it has lost the capacity to compete in any way that does not involve killing people in massive numbers.

We have zionists to thank for that tragic turn of events.
People like Phil Weiss and Jane Eisner tell us so — “Jews are the new elite,” they remind us every so often — as often as is required by appropriately gamed random reinforcement indicates will maintain the notion that non-Jews are the untermenschen and vassals of the New Jewish Elite.

The USA has travelled backward a thousand years, maybe more; meanwhile, China, Iran, even Russia have stood back and watched the (Hollywood-produced) show as the USA deconstructs itself and destroys others.

Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex with its compulsion to bray about your “meritocracy’” and fuck you Sam Shama and your inferiority complex with its compulsion to make sure and anonymous audience who doesn’t care a wit about you that you “have a PhD,” and and “IQ of 204.”

I find that there is something I can agree with you, finally. The United States needs to vastly expand its investments in infrastructure in this country and elsewhere in its sphere of influence. The U.S. enjoys the lowest cost of funding globally (with the exception of some Euro area countries, which are in no shape to provide any leadership) of approximately 1.7% for 5-year locked, or 2.45% for a 10-year lock.

You are correct Art. While it's true that the American people today are as dumb as a fence post, it's also true that they got into that condition because a Jewish controlled MSM has provided them with a steady diet of lies and cheap entertainment since they day they were born.

I think it’s important to put the USS Liberty Incident in proper context…

As I mentioned, the motivation behind the deliberate Israeli attack is a major historical puzzle, which we may or may not ever resolve. However, I think the attack itself is of very little present-day relevance. Nearly all the principals of both governments are long dead, and the impact upon current national security issues is nil.

However, I do think the incident is of *enormous* value in helping us to properly evaluate the reliability of our major media organs and our mainstream historians. Consider that one of the most serious peacetime attacks upon American military forces, with over 200 dead and wounded Americans, has been almost totally covered up and hidden for the last half-century by the American media and political elites. I doubt whether even 1% of Americans are even aware of it.

Furthermore, the vast quantity of totally false or distorted excuses vigorously promoted by pro-Israeli propagandists has successfully clouded the issue for the casually curious. Indeed, over the last few months I’ve occasionally noticed comments on this very website by agitated Jewish-activist types claiming that anyone who believed the Israeli attack was deliberate is a crazy promoter of “conspiracy theories.” I’d say there’s a better than 50-50 chance that the activists making those foolish claims were fully sincere in their mistaken beliefs, having probably read them from dozens of different sources.

The important lesson to draw from all of this is that anything, *absolutely* anything can be successfully covered up by our media and political elites, even for many decades, with this iron wall of historical disinformation only starting to crack in recent years due to the growing power of the Internet. And denouncing something as a “crazy conspiracy theory” because it isn’t on the front page of the New York Times or in all the standard history textbooks is a very feeble argument to make…

Furthermore, the vast quantity of totally false or distorted excuses vigorously promoted by pro-Israeli propagandists has successfully clouded the issue for the casually curious. Indeed, over the last few months I’ve occasionally noticed comments on this very website by agitated Jewish-activist types claiming that anyone who believed the Israeli attack was deliberate is a crazy promoter of “conspiracy theories.” I’d say there’s a better than 50-50 chance that the activists making those foolish claims were fully sincere in their mistaken beliefs, having probably read them from dozens of different sources

Reading some of the comments Unz Review, I'd say there's a better than 50-50 chance Unz Review is a target of (your choice)

Israeli 'talk-backers' (here's a case of Jewish exposé of Israeli dirty tricks, no doubt a textbook example of Bibi's accusations concerning "self-hating Jews" but actually courageous people similar to Eyal Weizman who has made a point of dissecting Israeli criminality)

This whole schtick, "we demand that you bow down and worship a holocaust that didn't happen as we insist it did but we need you to believe it did so that Jews and Israel can continue to keep a noose around the neck of American policy" has cost the people of the United States about 100 years in lost opportunity.

China is forging ahead with plans for a future brought about by non-violent investment --- opportunistic, to be sure, but mutually beneficial and exhibiting a modicum of respect for the people and lands where it hopes to invest in infrastructure and commerce.

Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.0Lsmx7s2.dpuf

If that murderous trio did not wage war because of what was happening to the Jews, then why DID they wage war against Germany? And why are we allowing our schoolchildren to be brainwashed that way?

American school children are forced to venerate Saint Ann Frank, and to overlook the fraud of Elie Wiesel while ingesting his phony rendition of being at a camp whose identity he can't seem to remember and which didn't do what he says it did and he wasn't there when it did/didn't do what he alleged it did anyway.

This is the backward-looking mire the holocaust industry has snared the USA in -- that fraudulent "survivor-ancestor worship" and the genocidal myths that undergird it and the liar's victory that has propelled the USA into more genocidal wars in search of the artificial high that the USA experienced when it got away with the mass murder of German, Russian, and Japanese civilians and called it Victory.

That "victory" has been an anchor around the necks of the American Constitutional republic, dragging it into the cesspool of Abrahamism when its intended destination was the creative individual liberty envisioned by USA's founders who pledged "their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor" to establish a unique experiment in self-government.

That experiment has been exploited and despoiled by zionism and holocaustism.

Your questions, Realist and Art --

Realist: “The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. “

Art: Gee – did all those Jews earn those positions – or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?What do you think?

--are beyond irrelevant.

Who gives a flying fuck?

The United States of America, a Constitutional republic posited on the notion that all men are created equal by a creator who does not have a limiting name or set of "chosen" people, is in a position where it has lost the capacity to compete in any way that does not involve killing people in massive numbers.

We have zionists to thank for that tragic turn of events. People like Phil Weiss and Jane Eisner tell us so -- "Jews are the new elite," they remind us every so often -- as often as is required by appropriately gamed random reinforcement indicates will maintain the notion that non-Jews are the untermenschen and vassals of the New Jewish Elite.

The USA has travelled backward a thousand years, maybe more; meanwhile, China, Iran, even Russia have stood back and watched the (Hollywood-produced) show as the USA deconstructs itself and destroys others.

Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex with its compulsion to bray about your "meritocracy'" and fuck you Sam Shama and your inferiority complex with its compulsion to make sure and anonymous audience who doesn't care a wit about you that you "have a PhD," and and "IQ of 204."

Your pathetic pathologies have dragged the USA backward.

Fuck you.

Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex with its compulsion to bray about your “meritocracy’” and fuck you Sam Shama and your inferiority

demonstrated that the United States has a secret government that operates with little in the way of transparency or restraint

You could have named some more recent or contemporary major players, for instance George H.W. Bush, Robert Gates, and not least, John Roberts. And the fact the CIA operations division in partnership with MOSSAD (both integrated to major organized crime) has been the number one fundraiser for the USA's 'men behind the curtain' dealing in everything from black market oil trades to much (most?) of this world's illicit international arms and narcotics trafficking.

And wasn't there a ship's crew went missing altogether, following a clandestine arms shipment to Iran? Should there be a bit of 'remember' ceremony for those folk?

It's true Phil, Bibi is one of the world's most accomplished international criminals but he's in a league with persons every bit as corrupted and accomplished operating right here at home:

http://ronaldthomaswest.com/2015/02/24/profits-of-war/

^ Ari Ben Menache's revelations are still quite relevant today; from eye-witness account of George H.W. Bush at the 'Paris Meeting' with the Ayatollahs' representatives, to hand delivering millions in 'suitcase cash' to accounts where Robert Gates personally met him at customs, to escort the money through (sans screening or declaration.)

I rather prefer the quote of another philosopher:

“It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime” -Thomas Paine

Sorry to Mr Giraldi for a post a bit off-topic and against his former employer. Ronald, in relation to what you wrote, there is one very important consideration which most people are not aware of. Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations.

The CIA is working for the US national interest as much as the Federal Reserve is working for the US national interest (it is a private financial crime syndicate with a completely misleading name, neither Federal, nor Reserve).

As soon as something is clandestine (and excluded from law), the national interest becomes a secondary consideration and private profit the primary. This is just natural, is it not? “It must be hush, hush, I would have to kill you if I told you the truth. The enemy is watching and listening. We need secret sources of funding that nobody knows about.” How convenient.

Do you recall a few years back how the Western media blasted North Korean intelligence for doing armaments, drug running and trade in humans (including kidnapping of the Japanese nationals)? New competitor on the block?

"Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations."

Well said - agree 100% - a pox on all of them. They are nothing but trouble makers.

In the Treaty of Westphalia rulers and nations were given sovereignty over their territory. It is based upon the concept of a sovereign state governed by a sovereign.

What do these spy agencies do but get rid of sovereigns. They are not just gathering information – they actually are destabilizing nations.

What is the motto of the Mossad – “with words we make war.” – the Mossad makes war – this is unquestionably true. That organization must be brought before the Hague.

One nation changing another nations sovereign is a war crime – end of story.

Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations

I expect if Phil is circumspect on the subject, one might understand his reticence. No doubt there are many within the agency who enter the service with every good intention and I'll let it go at that.

But to your point, there is a very good investigative journalist had documented the money trail of the savings & loan collapse of the 1980s, and in this 1992 (two part) interview you'll discover names touching other threads (this might not jump out at the uniformed) in this articles commentary .. Lloyd Bentsen, John Connally, George H.W. Bush (a lynchpin in my view) where certain notable personalities from both sides of the mainstream establishment politics are inter-meshed with named names spanning 1963 Dallas (not the subject of the interviews) to present (Jeb Bush.) The common thread throughout? American mafia in partnership with the CIA looting the American savings and loans, sticking the 500 billion (1992 dollars, closer to a trillion in 2015, adjusted for inflation) to the taxpayer and CIA derailing DoJ investigations and/or prosecutions; in a way predicting or mimicking the 'too big to fail' bailouts of 2008

Part one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EoOEw-hq-o

Part two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TcWx7uoM

One important thread that is NOT developed in the interviews (is not the subject of reporter Pete Brewton's investigation) is the equally incestuous overlap of the CIA with 'Corporate America' .. in any case the interview is eye-opening, particularly in relation to the CIA/Mafia marriage and related corruption of politics and law enforcement, very germane to present -

imho the most courageous -- and accurate -- statement in Giraldi's essay is this:

[The] USS Liberty incident reveals that there is a price to be paid in blood when one accommodates a rogue state like Israel.

Rogue state status is a fulcrum of neoconservative thinking. Frederick Kagan, the one who is not married to Victoria "f*&k EU" Nuland but to the squeaky-voiced war-lover Kimberly, identified Napoleon as the "model rogue" who demonstrated these patterns:

~ Napoleon viewed the "international order" imposed and enforced by the British empire as oppressive and corrupt, as it was indeed;

~ Napoleon believed his cause was just and that supporters would flock to support the "right;" Napoleon believed that "right makes might."

~ Napoleon was wrong: most states who were protected by the overweening power of the British empire, corrupt tho it might have been, preferred that corrupt protection to the possibility of a more just arrangement.

~Napoleon's attempt to disrupt the "established international order" as maintained by the British branded him as a "rogue."

~ (Ahmadinejad -- no longer relevant, but Kagan is on a roll; he'll find another bogey man) is the Napoleon of our day and Iran is thus a "rogue state."

Miriam Webster defines rogue in a manner different from that of Fred Kagan --

Thus, in Kagan-think, to fight for the right against an oppressive regime is roguish behavior and immoral. That twist of logic comes about because Kagan's standard for judging what is moral and immoral is that which assures financial wellbeing to an elite cadre, i.e. the British empire and its elite beneficiaries, and not those rights guaranteed to all men and termed inalienable in the U.S. Declaration of Independence.

Which definition of rogue is not the product of Orwellian double-think, and which definition applies to the rogue state Israel?

LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up. It's not far fetched to imagine that such a man could also have covered up the Liberty incident.

By the way, Mr. Giraldi, what do you think of the allegations against Congressman Hastert? You interviewed Sibel Edmonds a number of years back. During the interview, she made allegations about Hastert being involved in a Turkish spying ring and receiving bribes. So perhaps you have some perspective or information to add to this.

LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up.

It’s high time Ron brought aboard a JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. As Giraldi is the Unz Review’s foreign policy editor, the new guy could be history editor or something.

It’s high time Ron brought aboard a JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. As Giraldi is the Unz Review’s foreign policy editor, the new guy could be history editor or something.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately, my top choice probably isn't available. He would be David Talbot, founder of Salon.com and a well-regarded mainstream journalist.

Frankly, I'm ashamed to admit that for nearly my entire life I never paid the slightest attention to "JFK conspiracy theories," assuming they were all just the total nonsense the MSM suggested. However, when I read Talbot's book BROTHERS on the JFK/RFK assassinations a couple of years ago, it seemed extremely persuasive to me. So I included that I'd probably been entirely wrong for all those years.

One reason I heard about Talbot's book was that it was so glowingly reviewed in all the elite MSM outlets, though for mysterious reasons the reviewers tended to be quite circumspect about the actual topic. But if all the elite MSM praised the Talbot book, and Talbot provided *overwhelming* evidence of a JFK conspiracy, why should I or anyone believe otherwise? And the Douglass book, which came out more recently, covered some of the same ground, and once again was glowingly praised by all the elite MSM outlets I read.

So, in effect, our entire elite MSM has now quietly done a total about-face on the JFK assassination, and the only people I still see these days claiming it *wasn't* a "conspiracy" are anonymous internet commenters and other random nuts.

And once you're reasonably persuaded that the MSM had fooled you about something so enormous for so many decades, well, you tend to become more cautious above taking them at face value about anything else...

It has no sense to differentiate wealthy Dem power brokers from wealthy GOP power brokers. For instance, the White Greedy Cheating Class of Republican persuasion has been very adept at using the unskilled labor. If the Republican block was ever serious about illegal immigration, the various law-skilled law-paying job positions in Agrobyz, Construction, and Meat&poultry gigantic complexes and such would not be filled to the brim by illegals. There was never a talk about fining big businesses for hiring illegals.

Surprisingly, only Clinton ever actually did anything about corporations hiring illegals. He put that under the RICO statutes. Unfortunately, nobody ever prosecutes any corporation using this. The few times they have used them they have gotten the company to plead guilty and agree to a large fine (cost of doing business) that is later reduced (as much as 90%) in negotiations with the Justice Department when nobody is looking.

LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up.

It's high time Ron brought aboard a JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. As Giraldi is the Unz Review's foreign policy editor, the new guy could be history editor or something.

It’s high time Ron brought aboard a JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. As Giraldi is the Unz Review’s foreign policy editor, the new guy could be history editor or something.

That’s actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately, my top choice probably isn’t available. He would be David Talbot, founder of Salon.com and a well-regarded mainstream journalist.

Frankly, I’m ashamed to admit that for nearly my entire life I never paid the slightest attention to “JFK conspiracy theories,” assuming they were all just the total nonsense the MSM suggested. However, when I read Talbot’s book BROTHERS on the JFK/RFK assassinations a couple of years ago, it seemed extremely persuasive to me. So I included that I’d probably been entirely wrong for all those years.

One reason I heard about Talbot’s book was that it was so glowingly reviewed in all the elite MSM outlets, though for mysterious reasons the reviewers tended to be quite circumspect about the actual topic. But if all the elite MSM praised the Talbot book, and Talbot provided *overwhelming* evidence of a JFK conspiracy, why should I or anyone believe otherwise? And the Douglass book, which came out more recently, covered some of the same ground, and once again was glowingly praised by all the elite MSM outlets I read.

So, in effect, our entire elite MSM has now quietly done a total about-face on the JFK assassination, and the only people I still see these days claiming it *wasn’t* a “conspiracy” are anonymous internet commenters and other random nuts.

And once you’re reasonably persuaded that the MSM had fooled you about something so enormous for so many decades, well, you tend to become more cautious above taking them at face value about anything else…

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

Consider four assassination plots: Lincoln in 1865, Czar Alexander II in 1881, Hitler in 1944, and Charles Degaulle in 1962. The first two were successful, the latter two failed. What did all four have in common? The plot was uncovered after the attempt, one way or another, and the conspirators were caught.

The same thing would have happened had there been a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. The Idiot Savant Oliver Stone had much of the government involved with dozens of them in Dealey Plaza, severalfiring down from the School Book Depository, another group (in plain sight) on "the Grassy Knoll."

How many would have been caught on the spot? How many would have run to the authorities to make a deal to save their neck? Several at least.

You’re proving to be a confirmation of a certain kind of stereotype, InternationalJew. I fear that you are exactly as Mr. Unz describes you: you genuinely think that you’re on the side of the angels, and that the rest of us – even if we’re Jewish – are “anti-semites”.

I find myself regretting writing the above, it can't be entertained.

Mr. Unz, do you think it's possible that IJ at some level does not understand that the survivors indeed testify that the planes were unmarked? Is it possible that IJ genuinely is ignorant or (self-)deceived?

Rather than simply writing in bad faith, stupidly thinking that this deeply repulsive behaviour somehow helps "the jews".

Sorry to Mr Giraldi for a post a bit off-topic and against his former employer. Ronald, in relation to what you wrote, there is one very important consideration which most people are not aware of. Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in "peace-time", the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other "Secret Services" of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations.

The CIA is working for the US national interest as much as the Federal Reserve is working for the US national interest (it is a private financial crime syndicate with a completely misleading name, neither Federal, nor Reserve).

As soon as something is clandestine (and excluded from law), the national interest becomes a secondary consideration and private profit the primary. This is just natural, is it not? "It must be hush, hush, I would have to kill you if I told you the truth. The enemy is watching and listening. We need secret sources of funding that nobody knows about." How convenient.

Do you recall a few years back how the Western media blasted North Korean intelligence for doing armaments, drug running and trade in humans (including kidnapping of the Japanese nationals)? New competitor on the block?

“Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations.”

Well said – agree 100% – a pox on all of them. They are nothing but trouble makers.

In the Treaty of Westphalia rulers and nations were given sovereignty over their territory. It is based upon the concept of a sovereign state governed by a sovereign.

What do these spy agencies do but get rid of sovereigns. They are not just gathering information – they actually are destabilizing nations.

What is the motto of the Mossad – “with words we make war.” – the Mossad makes war – this is unquestionably true. That organization must be brought before the Hague.

One nation changing another nations sovereign is a war crime – end of story.

"One nation changing another nations sovereign is a war crime – end of story."

I would only call this semi-violent change of government in a targeted country a crime against humanity, not a war crime. The US and UK have developed a fantastic new "technology" for a semi-violent, NGO-lead change of a democratically elected government a.k.a color revolution. First, we try to manipulate the elections (using media of the targeted country, financing & bribes, outright stealing of votes etc), if this proves insufficient then we give our puppets a second chance by financing a coup by paying a river of freshly printed dollars to the locals organised into NGOs.

For the sake of peace amongst doomsday armed nations, this "social technology" has to be internationally outlawed and banned. The only possible way to control this "technology" is to control the cross-border financing of NGOs. This is similar to what Russia is trying to do and the law the US already has (compulsory registration of foreign agents).

But, the main issue with "secret agencies" is that due to the information they posses and hide from others, both in the same nation and from foreign "enemies", they are growth beds of "shadow government", "deep state" etc, just like the one which hid the USS Liberty incident.

Personally, I can imagine the same "shadow government" hand in 911 and in the Liberty incident, only 34 years apart.

It’s high time Ron brought aboard a JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. As Giraldi is the Unz Review’s foreign policy editor, the new guy could be history editor or something.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately, my top choice probably isn't available. He would be David Talbot, founder of Salon.com and a well-regarded mainstream journalist.

Frankly, I'm ashamed to admit that for nearly my entire life I never paid the slightest attention to "JFK conspiracy theories," assuming they were all just the total nonsense the MSM suggested. However, when I read Talbot's book BROTHERS on the JFK/RFK assassinations a couple of years ago, it seemed extremely persuasive to me. So I included that I'd probably been entirely wrong for all those years.

One reason I heard about Talbot's book was that it was so glowingly reviewed in all the elite MSM outlets, though for mysterious reasons the reviewers tended to be quite circumspect about the actual topic. But if all the elite MSM praised the Talbot book, and Talbot provided *overwhelming* evidence of a JFK conspiracy, why should I or anyone believe otherwise? And the Douglass book, which came out more recently, covered some of the same ground, and once again was glowingly praised by all the elite MSM outlets I read.

So, in effect, our entire elite MSM has now quietly done a total about-face on the JFK assassination, and the only people I still see these days claiming it *wasn't* a "conspiracy" are anonymous internet commenters and other random nuts.

And once you're reasonably persuaded that the MSM had fooled you about something so enormous for so many decades, well, you tend to become more cautious above taking them at face value about anything else...

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

Consider four assassination plots: Lincoln in 1865, Czar Alexander II in 1881, Hitler in 1944, and Charles Degaulle in 1962. The first two were successful, the latter two failed. What did all four have in common? The plot was uncovered after the attempt, one way or another, and the conspirators were caught.

The same thing would have happened had there been a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. The Idiot Savant Oliver Stone had much of the government involved with dozens of them in Dealey Plaza, severalfiring down from the School Book Depository, another group (in plain sight) on “the Grassy Knoll.”

How many would have been caught on the spot? How many would have run to the authorities to make a deal to save their neck? Several at least.

I wouldn't exactly say the assassination conspiracy has been kept secret, plenty of people have talked even if you have never heard of them. Jim Garrison unearthed a fair number of the conspirators and one can make educated guesses on the others, that is despite evidence being destroyed or classified (still!) along side witnesses suffering untimely deaths.

I would suggest you read Colonel John Hughes-Wilson's book on the subject, an impeccable authority on such clandestine affairs although I am told he was more a behind the desk guy than in the field.

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

I could see that if the conspiracy consisted of a few mafiosos. If it was payback from Castro, people would have talked by now; they could keep quiet in Cuba but by 1970 or so key people or their family would have been in the US. And finally, anything hatched by the CIA, or Johnson or Nixon: totally utterly implausible that it could have been kept silent.

So in other words, the only plausible conspiracy is also the least interesting; what difference does it make if it was Oswald or Oswald plus a few more obscure losers?

The Times review that Ron points us to isn't as complimentary as he thinks; it sums up by saying that the book lays out a lot of interesting theories without presenting a shred of evidence for any of them!

Which, when you come to think about it, would makes a JFK-assassination-conspiracy nut an ideal recruit to Ron's stable of contributors.

You have to remember that when assassinations or attempted assassinations occurred against Lincoln, Czar Alexander, Hitler and DeGaulle, Jews had not yet gained total control over the government of those countries. As a result, the crimes were all solved and the guilty punished accordingly.

This whole schtick, "we demand that you bow down and worship a holocaust that didn't happen as we insist it did but we need you to believe it did so that Jews and Israel can continue to keep a noose around the neck of American policy" has cost the people of the United States about 100 years in lost opportunity.

China is forging ahead with plans for a future brought about by non-violent investment --- opportunistic, to be sure, but mutually beneficial and exhibiting a modicum of respect for the people and lands where it hopes to invest in infrastructure and commerce.

Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.0Lsmx7s2.dpuf

If that murderous trio did not wage war because of what was happening to the Jews, then why DID they wage war against Germany? And why are we allowing our schoolchildren to be brainwashed that way?

American school children are forced to venerate Saint Ann Frank, and to overlook the fraud of Elie Wiesel while ingesting his phony rendition of being at a camp whose identity he can't seem to remember and which didn't do what he says it did and he wasn't there when it did/didn't do what he alleged it did anyway.

This is the backward-looking mire the holocaust industry has snared the USA in -- that fraudulent "survivor-ancestor worship" and the genocidal myths that undergird it and the liar's victory that has propelled the USA into more genocidal wars in search of the artificial high that the USA experienced when it got away with the mass murder of German, Russian, and Japanese civilians and called it Victory.

That "victory" has been an anchor around the necks of the American Constitutional republic, dragging it into the cesspool of Abrahamism when its intended destination was the creative individual liberty envisioned by USA's founders who pledged "their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor" to establish a unique experiment in self-government.

That experiment has been exploited and despoiled by zionism and holocaustism.

Your questions, Realist and Art --

Realist: “The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. “

Art: Gee – did all those Jews earn those positions – or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?What do you think?

--are beyond irrelevant.

Who gives a flying fuck?

The United States of America, a Constitutional republic posited on the notion that all men are created equal by a creator who does not have a limiting name or set of "chosen" people, is in a position where it has lost the capacity to compete in any way that does not involve killing people in massive numbers.

We have zionists to thank for that tragic turn of events. People like Phil Weiss and Jane Eisner tell us so -- "Jews are the new elite," they remind us every so often -- as often as is required by appropriately gamed random reinforcement indicates will maintain the notion that non-Jews are the untermenschen and vassals of the New Jewish Elite.

The USA has travelled backward a thousand years, maybe more; meanwhile, China, Iran, even Russia have stood back and watched the (Hollywood-produced) show as the USA deconstructs itself and destroys others.

Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex with its compulsion to bray about your "meritocracy'" and fuck you Sam Shama and your inferiority complex with its compulsion to make sure and anonymous audience who doesn't care a wit about you that you "have a PhD," and and "IQ of 204."

Your pathetic pathologies have dragged the USA backward.

Fuck you.

“Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex”

Sorry but I am not a Jew, never was never will be.

Because I am a philosophical Christian – I do not want to kill Jews – I believe all human life is sacred.

With that said I can not tell you how many times I have been censured for giving Jews a nasty hard time. I think that Jews are the most dangerous tribe on the planet.

Apologies, Art.Neither do I seek the deaths of any persons. I wish the Catholic church would firmly and vocally reassert the moral authority of Joseph Bernardin's concept of a seamless garment of life.

Re-reading the series of comments, it appears I missed the irony in your response.While it may frighten you to be in such company, we have more in common than not.

---To Fran Macadam: it was not the self-destruct button but the self-censor button that I pushed that resulted in an impotent outburst of frustration.

I misinterpreted Art's comment. I thought Art was suggesting that disproportionate Ashkenazi representation was the result of superior ability or merit. I had just read a blog that treats I/P issues and occasionally discusses Jewish meritocracy and superiority.THAT was the source of frustration.

There are very real problems that We the People must confront. Notions of Jewish superiority and right-to-rule should be dealt with by squashing, even ridiculing them, not spending energy debating the topic. Jewish envy of WASPs and the attempt to displace them has resulted in the mess the USA is in today. There are no winners in this neurotic game.

The USS Liberty affair is only one event in a pattern of attack-deny-deceive-demand that characterizes Israel's exploitation of its relationship to the USA.

Even worse, as others have noted, the US CIA acts contrary to supposed US values and interests more frequently than we know. Chas Freeman has spoken of how the USA has mimicked rather than corrected Israel's agenda of eroding rule of law. JFK sought to rein in the activities of the clandestine services that became institutionalized in the aftermath of WWII. He was assassinated and far from being reined in the CIA & the like metastasized post-9/11.

Remember the 5 Israeli “art students” who filmed and celebrated 9/11 as it happened ?
Later they said on Israeli TV that they were there to document the event ! Nano-thermite (and advanced nano-thermite from a military lab) destroyed the towers, not the planes. If the planes did it, Isaac Newton lived in vain. But 9 scientists found traces of nano-thermite. Did OBL have access to nano-thermite ? The plot thickens !

Sorry to Mr Giraldi for a post a bit off-topic and against his former employer. Ronald, in relation to what you wrote, there is one very important consideration which most people are not aware of. Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in "peace-time", the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other "Secret Services" of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations.

The CIA is working for the US national interest as much as the Federal Reserve is working for the US national interest (it is a private financial crime syndicate with a completely misleading name, neither Federal, nor Reserve).

As soon as something is clandestine (and excluded from law), the national interest becomes a secondary consideration and private profit the primary. This is just natural, is it not? "It must be hush, hush, I would have to kill you if I told you the truth. The enemy is watching and listening. We need secret sources of funding that nobody knows about." How convenient.

Do you recall a few years back how the Western media blasted North Korean intelligence for doing armaments, drug running and trade in humans (including kidnapping of the Japanese nationals)? New competitor on the block?

Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations

I expect if Phil is circumspect on the subject, one might understand his reticence. No doubt there are many within the agency who enter the service with every good intention and I’ll let it go at that.

But to your point, there is a very good investigative journalist had documented the money trail of the savings & loan collapse of the 1980s, and in this 1992 (two part) interview you’ll discover names touching other threads (this might not jump out at the uniformed) in this articles commentary .. Lloyd Bentsen, John Connally, George H.W. Bush (a lynchpin in my view) where certain notable personalities from both sides of the mainstream establishment politics are inter-meshed with named names spanning 1963 Dallas (not the subject of the interviews) to present (Jeb Bush.) The common thread throughout? American mafia in partnership with the CIA looting the American savings and loans, sticking the 500 billion (1992 dollars, closer to a trillion in 2015, adjusted for inflation) to the taxpayer and CIA derailing DoJ investigations and/or prosecutions; in a way predicting or mimicking the ‘too big to fail’ bailouts of 2008

Part one:

Part two:

One important thread that is NOT developed in the interviews (is not the subject of reporter Pete Brewton’s investigation) is the equally incestuous overlap of the CIA with ‘Corporate America’ .. in any case the interview is eye-opening, particularly in relation to the CIA/Mafia marriage and related corruption of politics and law enforcement, very germane to present -

Every shadowy group needs a few honest and idealistic individuals to dilute criticism and create a PR friendly face, be it some Mafia, some NGO or some Intelligence Service. Based on his excellent writing, I could never imagine Mr Giraldi in any other role within the CIA then protecting the US national interest. I sincerely believe this. Naturally, Mr Giraldi is not the only such person of integrity that I am aware of, Ray McGovern is another and so on.

Regarding financial crimes of CIA and its collusion with the US and Global financial crime syndicates, there is little doubt about this. A common rumor is that CIA and/or MI6 made Mr George Soros a billionaire and a financier of the color revolution technology. I would volunteer for his replacement, but I probably do not have the right ethnic persuasion (damn).

It would be much more interesting to know what financial crimes the NSA is involved in. Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest.

I stand second to no one in my desire to see the Rogue State brought to occasional justice, but the Liberty incident has been milked for all it's worth for too long. Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

Nonsense. Especially when Israel is going around the world trying to arrest or have deported ninety years old prison guards who did nothing but guard prisoners. No, we in the Unites States should never forget the Liberty and those traitors who sent American servicemen to their death. There are still those in Israel who are alive and who were involved in this incident, and we must continue to seek to make them accountable.

It would be pleasing to see some of the Tel Aviv terrorists dragged from their nursing home beds and put on the stand for crimes they committed years ago. Let them sit in the stand, crapping their diapers and drooling while a judge sentences them for the Liberty attack.

SumDood - One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html

Here at Unz we have a policy of allowing everyone to express their opinions freely, but I find your insinuations extremely offensive. If you think I "hate Jews" and engage in "more anti-Semitism" perhaps you can exercise your freedom of choice to avoid my articles in the future and find another website to engage in your brand of repulsive innuendo.

SumDood – One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

This incident has been thoroughly examined and re-examined going on fifty years. If it wasn’t laid to rest after the investigations at the time, it was after the key documents were declassified about ten years ago.

This discussion isn’t going to get very far as long as you rely on sources within your own little echo chamber, while angrily rejecting everything else as part of your obsession with some kind of grand international Jewish conspiracy.

In other words, no one other than your own acolytes will take you seriously, and you’ll be forever limited to flinging insults at us sane people in the world outside the ward.

The veterans of the USS liberty also claim that the planes were unmarked, both on their website, and on their formal report to the govt titled "A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967".

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

"That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked
Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired
30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which
were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a
minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency
radio channels"

“… and you’ll be forever limited to flinging insults at us sane people in the world outside the ward.”

I know, I know… anyone who disagrees with the dominant narrative belongs in a ward! Here’s how one observer characterized the goal of Theodor W. Adorno’s (a leading member of the Frankfurt School of critical theory) book, The Authoritarian Personality:

[it] was to eliminate antisemitism by “subjecting the American people to what amounted to collective psychotherapy—by treating them as inmates of an insane asylum.” (emphasis added)

SumDood – One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html

Some reliable source you've got there!

This incident has been thoroughly examined and re-examined going on fifty years. If it wasn't laid to rest after the investigations at the time, it was after the key documents were declassified about ten years ago.

This discussion isn't going to get very far as long as you rely on sources within your own little echo chamber, while angrily rejecting everything else as part of your obsession with some kind of grand international Jewish conspiracy.

In other words, no one other than your own acolytes will take you seriously, and you'll be forever limited to flinging insults at us sane people in the world outside the ward.

The veterans of the USS liberty also claim that the planes were unmarked, both on their website, and on their formal report to the govt titled “A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967″.

“That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked
Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty’s bridge, and fired
30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which
were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a
minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency
radio channels”

The veterans of the USS liberty also claim that the planes were unmarked, both on their website, and on their formal report to the govt titled “A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967″.

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

Not "the veterans of the USS Liberty" but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Disguising the planes, indeed. The Egyptian and Israeli air forces flew different planes, and the Egyptian ones were all smoldering wreckages by June 8. Even wacky conspiracy theories need to at least try to be consistent: either the Jews are superhumanly clever schemers and manipulators, or they're stupid enough to try a ridiculously implausible "false flag" attack, but not both. Take your pick.

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

Consider four assassination plots: Lincoln in 1865, Czar Alexander II in 1881, Hitler in 1944, and Charles Degaulle in 1962. The first two were successful, the latter two failed. What did all four have in common? The plot was uncovered after the attempt, one way or another, and the conspirators were caught.

The same thing would have happened had there been a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. The Idiot Savant Oliver Stone had much of the government involved with dozens of them in Dealey Plaza, severalfiring down from the School Book Depository, another group (in plain sight) on "the Grassy Knoll."

How many would have been caught on the spot? How many would have run to the authorities to make a deal to save their neck? Several at least.

I wouldn’t exactly say the assassination conspiracy has been kept secret, plenty of people have talked even if you have never heard of them. Jim Garrison unearthed a fair number of the conspirators and one can make educated guesses on the others, that is despite evidence being destroyed or classified (still!) along side witnesses suffering untimely deaths.

I would suggest you read Colonel John Hughes-Wilson’s book on the subject, an impeccable authority on such clandestine affairs although I am told he was more a behind the desk guy than in the field.

Within 5-7 days of the assassination, most or all of the conspirators would have been under arrest (as with Lincoln, Alexander II, Hitler, DeGaulle). BTW, Oswald had a day and a half to talk in order to buy his life had he anything to sell.

I think it's important to put the USS Liberty Incident in proper context...

As I mentioned, the motivation behind the deliberate Israeli attack is a major historical puzzle, which we may or may not ever resolve. However, I think the attack itself is of very little present-day relevance. Nearly all the principals of both governments are long dead, and the impact upon current national security issues is nil.

However, I do think the incident is of *enormous* value in helping us to properly evaluate the reliability of our major media organs and our mainstream historians. Consider that one of the most serious peacetime attacks upon American military forces, with over 200 dead and wounded Americans, has been almost totally covered up and hidden for the last half-century by the American media and political elites. I doubt whether even 1% of Americans are even aware of it.

Furthermore, the vast quantity of totally false or distorted excuses vigorously promoted by pro-Israeli propagandists has successfully clouded the issue for the casually curious. Indeed, over the last few months I've occasionally noticed comments on this very website by agitated Jewish-activist types claiming that anyone who believed the Israeli attack was deliberate is a crazy promoter of "conspiracy theories." I'd say there's a better than 50-50 chance that the activists making those foolish claims were fully sincere in their mistaken beliefs, having probably read them from dozens of different sources.

The important lesson to draw from all of this is that anything, *absolutely* anything can be successfully covered up by our media and political elites, even for many decades, with this iron wall of historical disinformation only starting to crack in recent years due to the growing power of the Internet. And denouncing something as a "crazy conspiracy theory" because it isn't on the front page of the New York Times or in all the standard history textbooks is a very feeble argument to make...

Furthermore, the vast quantity of totally false or distorted excuses vigorously promoted by pro-Israeli propagandists has successfully clouded the issue for the casually curious. Indeed, over the last few months I’ve occasionally noticed comments on this very website by agitated Jewish-activist types claiming that anyone who believed the Israeli attack was deliberate is a crazy promoter of “conspiracy theories.” I’d say there’s a better than 50-50 chance that the activists making those foolish claims were fully sincere in their mistaken beliefs, having probably read them from dozens of different sources

Reading some of the comments Unz Review, I’d say there’s a better than 50-50 chance Unz Review is a target of (your choice)

Israeli ‘talk-backers’ (here’s a case of Jewish exposé of Israeli dirty tricks, no doubt a textbook example of Bibi’s accusations concerning “self-hating Jews” but actually courageous people similar to Eyal Weizman who has made a point of dissecting Israeli criminality)

This whole schtick, "we demand that you bow down and worship a holocaust that didn't happen as we insist it did but we need you to believe it did so that Jews and Israel can continue to keep a noose around the neck of American policy" has cost the people of the United States about 100 years in lost opportunity.

China is forging ahead with plans for a future brought about by non-violent investment --- opportunistic, to be sure, but mutually beneficial and exhibiting a modicum of respect for the people and lands where it hopes to invest in infrastructure and commerce.

Holocaust denial will remain a fringe issue. The documentation is secure in its veracity and overwhelming in its volume. If anything, today’s school children are in danger of thinking that Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin went to war against Hitler because of what was happening to the Jews. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/01/auschwitz-revisited#sthash.0Lsmx7s2.dpuf

If that murderous trio did not wage war because of what was happening to the Jews, then why DID they wage war against Germany? And why are we allowing our schoolchildren to be brainwashed that way?

American school children are forced to venerate Saint Ann Frank, and to overlook the fraud of Elie Wiesel while ingesting his phony rendition of being at a camp whose identity he can't seem to remember and which didn't do what he says it did and he wasn't there when it did/didn't do what he alleged it did anyway.

This is the backward-looking mire the holocaust industry has snared the USA in -- that fraudulent "survivor-ancestor worship" and the genocidal myths that undergird it and the liar's victory that has propelled the USA into more genocidal wars in search of the artificial high that the USA experienced when it got away with the mass murder of German, Russian, and Japanese civilians and called it Victory.

That "victory" has been an anchor around the necks of the American Constitutional republic, dragging it into the cesspool of Abrahamism when its intended destination was the creative individual liberty envisioned by USA's founders who pledged "their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor" to establish a unique experiment in self-government.

That experiment has been exploited and despoiled by zionism and holocaustism.

Your questions, Realist and Art --

Realist: “The point is Ashkenazi Jews are over represented in proportion to their total numbers in positions of power. “

Art: Gee – did all those Jews earn those positions – or were they put in those positions over time by other Jews and by political and financial coercion? Did tribalness accomplish the deed?What do you think?

--are beyond irrelevant.

Who gives a flying fuck?

The United States of America, a Constitutional republic posited on the notion that all men are created equal by a creator who does not have a limiting name or set of "chosen" people, is in a position where it has lost the capacity to compete in any way that does not involve killing people in massive numbers.

We have zionists to thank for that tragic turn of events. People like Phil Weiss and Jane Eisner tell us so -- "Jews are the new elite," they remind us every so often -- as often as is required by appropriately gamed random reinforcement indicates will maintain the notion that non-Jews are the untermenschen and vassals of the New Jewish Elite.

The USA has travelled backward a thousand years, maybe more; meanwhile, China, Iran, even Russia have stood back and watched the (Hollywood-produced) show as the USA deconstructs itself and destroys others.

Fuck you, Art and your Ashkenazi inferiority complex with its compulsion to bray about your "meritocracy'" and fuck you Sam Shama and your inferiority complex with its compulsion to make sure and anonymous audience who doesn't care a wit about you that you "have a PhD," and and "IQ of 204."

Your pathetic pathologies have dragged the USA backward.

Fuck you.

I find that there is something I can agree with you, finally. The United States needs to vastly expand its investments in infrastructure in this country and elsewhere in its sphere of influence. The U.S. enjoys the lowest cost of funding globally (with the exception of some Euro area countries, which are in no shape to provide any leadership) of approximately 1.7% for 5-year locked, or 2.45% for a 10-year lock.

Nonsense. Especially when Israel is going around the world trying to arrest or have deported ninety years old prison guards who did nothing but guard prisoners. No, we in the Unites States should never forget the Liberty and those traitors who sent American servicemen to their death. There are still those in Israel who are alive and who were involved in this incident, and we must continue to seek to make them accountable.

It would be pleasing to see some of the Tel Aviv terrorists dragged from their nursing home beds and put on the stand for crimes they committed years ago. Let them sit in the stand, crapping their diapers and drooling while a judge sentences them for the Liberty attack.

Just a reminder:The larger issue was the Cold War…In 2015 it’s still about the Cold War…only difference:We are going to War against those Fundamentalist Christian Russians!!!!!!!!!!!…The Cold War has become Homo normed,

In the post-WW2 Cold War era, We went to War against the godless Russians!!!!!…This, of course, was a lie….the Russians weren’t godless.

It is amazing how the internal identity psychodrama politics of The US interacted with post-WW2 foreign policy…and interacts with 2015 US foreign policy.

We should have been friends with post-WW2 Stalinist Russia and post-1953 Communist Russia. We….as in Native Born White American Christian America.

Russia was never a threat to the Native Born White American Christian Working Class…but Jack Welch and Ronnie black-oxford-shoe-polish-in-the-hair-Reagan(cause of Ronnie’s dementia issues?) were a very real mortal threat to the Native Born White American Christian Working Class.

This is the context in which the Israeli slaughter of Native Born White American Christian Teenagers back in 1967 should be understood in terms of….

Because I am a philosophical Christian - I do not want to kill Jews - I believe all human life is sacred.

With that said I can not tell you how many times I have been censured for giving Jews a nasty hard time. I think that Jews are the most dangerous tribe on the planet.

Boycott Disinvest Sanction

Apologies, Art.
Neither do I seek the deaths of any persons.
I wish the Catholic church would firmly and vocally reassert the moral authority of Joseph Bernardin’s concept of a seamless garment of life.

Re-reading the series of comments, it appears I missed the irony in your response.
While it may frighten you to be in such company, we have more in common than not.

—
To Fran Macadam: it was not the self-destruct button but the self-censor button that I pushed that resulted in an impotent outburst of frustration.

I misinterpreted Art’s comment. I thought Art was suggesting that disproportionate Ashkenazi representation was the result of superior ability or merit. I had just read a blog that treats I/P issues and occasionally discusses Jewish meritocracy and superiority.THAT was the source of frustration.

There are very real problems that We the People must confront. Notions of Jewish superiority and right-to-rule should be dealt with by squashing, even ridiculing them, not spending energy debating the topic. Jewish envy of WASPs and the attempt to displace them has resulted in the mess the USA is in today. There are no winners in this neurotic game.

The USS Liberty affair is only one event in a pattern of attack-deny-deceive-demand that characterizes Israel’s exploitation of its relationship to the USA.

Even worse, as others have noted, the US CIA acts contrary to supposed US values and interests more frequently than we know. Chas Freeman has spoken of how the USA has mimicked rather than corrected Israel’s agenda of eroding rule of law. JFK sought to rein in the activities of the clandestine services that became institutionalized in the aftermath of WWII. He was assassinated and far from being reined in the CIA & the like metastasized post-9/11.

Knock it off with the JFK worshipping sewage. JFK was a filthy reprobate and War Criminal....no doubt rotting in HELL!!! at the moment with the filthy stinking rotting reprobate Teddy. The Kennedy Clan=Irish Catholic Scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I stand second to no one in my desire to see the Rogue State brought to occasional justice, but the Liberty incident has been milked for all it's worth for too long. Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

If the US Liberty has been “milked for all it’s worth” where is the milk?

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

Consider four assassination plots: Lincoln in 1865, Czar Alexander II in 1881, Hitler in 1944, and Charles Degaulle in 1962. The first two were successful, the latter two failed. What did all four have in common? The plot was uncovered after the attempt, one way or another, and the conspirators were caught.

The same thing would have happened had there been a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. The Idiot Savant Oliver Stone had much of the government involved with dozens of them in Dealey Plaza, severalfiring down from the School Book Depository, another group (in plain sight) on "the Grassy Knoll."

How many would have been caught on the spot? How many would have run to the authorities to make a deal to save their neck? Several at least.

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

I could see that if the conspiracy consisted of a few mafiosos. If it was payback from Castro, people would have talked by now; they could keep quiet in Cuba but by 1970 or so key people or their family would have been in the US. And finally, anything hatched by the CIA, or Johnson or Nixon: totally utterly implausible that it could have been kept silent.

So in other words, the only plausible conspiracy is also the least interesting; what difference does it make if it was Oswald or Oswald plus a few more obscure losers?

The Times review that Ron points us to isn’t as complimentary as he thinks; it sums up by saying that the book lays out a lot of interesting theories without presenting a shred of evidence for any of them!

Which, when you come to think about it, would makes a JFK-assassination-conspiracy nut an ideal recruit to Ron’s stable of contributors.

Which, when you come to think about it, would make a JFK-assassination-conspiracy nut an ideal recruit to Ron’s stable of contributors.

Had a good laugh when I read this. I had mused earlier that Ron maintains this webzine, as a public service - sort of a therapeutic device for commenters to vent frustrations which left untreated, might quite possibly result in actual violence. I must now consider the further comic benefit of gathering diverse and interesting views, some of which surpass the realms of the twilight zone.

None of which is to detract from the typical quality of writing one finds here: it excels.

Apropos of the topic under discussion, I wholeheartedly support the notion that the survivours and servicemen of the Liberty ought to be honoured. Israel should also send a delegation annually, in recognition of the very same, and perhaps afford a measure of closure for an incident that remains outstanding between allies. (I know that Mr. Giraldi, whose motives I have now come to respect, does not see Israel in that light, but remain hopeful, that one day he might.)

Apologies, Art.Neither do I seek the deaths of any persons. I wish the Catholic church would firmly and vocally reassert the moral authority of Joseph Bernardin's concept of a seamless garment of life.

Re-reading the series of comments, it appears I missed the irony in your response.While it may frighten you to be in such company, we have more in common than not.

---To Fran Macadam: it was not the self-destruct button but the self-censor button that I pushed that resulted in an impotent outburst of frustration.

I misinterpreted Art's comment. I thought Art was suggesting that disproportionate Ashkenazi representation was the result of superior ability or merit. I had just read a blog that treats I/P issues and occasionally discusses Jewish meritocracy and superiority.THAT was the source of frustration.

There are very real problems that We the People must confront. Notions of Jewish superiority and right-to-rule should be dealt with by squashing, even ridiculing them, not spending energy debating the topic. Jewish envy of WASPs and the attempt to displace them has resulted in the mess the USA is in today. There are no winners in this neurotic game.

The USS Liberty affair is only one event in a pattern of attack-deny-deceive-demand that characterizes Israel's exploitation of its relationship to the USA.

Even worse, as others have noted, the US CIA acts contrary to supposed US values and interests more frequently than we know. Chas Freeman has spoken of how the USA has mimicked rather than corrected Israel's agenda of eroding rule of law. JFK sought to rein in the activities of the clandestine services that became institutionalized in the aftermath of WWII. He was assassinated and far from being reined in the CIA & the like metastasized post-9/11.

Knock it off with the JFK worshipping sewage. JFK was a filthy reprobate and War Criminal….no doubt rotting in HELL!!! at the moment with the filthy stinking rotting reprobate Teddy. The Kennedy Clan=Irish Catholic Scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An article posted on a JFK Conspiracy Theories website hosted at Marquette University http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk_cia.htm attempts to argue that JFK did not intend to "fragment and scatter to the winds" the CIA. The article claims (less than persuasively, imo) that JFK liked covert operations, used them frequently, and sought to enhance CIA ability to acquire intelligence and conduct covert operations.

The veterans of the USS liberty also claim that the planes were unmarked, both on their website, and on their formal report to the govt titled "A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967".

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

"That the Israeli air attack lasted approximately 25 minutes, during which time unmarked
Israeli aircraft dropped napalm canisters on USS Liberty's bridge, and fired
30mm cannons and rockets into our ship, causing 821 holes, more than 100 of which
were rocket-size; survivors estimate 30 or more sorties were flown over the ship by a
minimum of 12 attacking Israeli planes which were jamming all five American emergency
radio channels"

Are you going to concede the point, InternationalJew?

The veterans of the USS liberty also claim that the planes were unmarked, both on their website, and on their formal report to the govt titled “A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967″.

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Disguising the planes, indeed. The Egyptian and Israeli air forces flew different planes, and the Egyptian ones were all smoldering wreckages by June 8. Even wacky conspiracy theories need to at least try to be consistent: either the Jews are superhumanly clever schemers and manipulators, or they’re stupid enough to try a ridiculously implausible “false flag” attack, but not both. Take your pick.

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Lies.

The report stating that the Israeli craft were unmarked is by the USS Liberty Veterans Association.

It is clearly signed by the entire board of the association. They are all veterans, many of them are depicted in Philip's picture above.

Gary W. Brummett, President andMember of the Board of DirectorsStan W. WhiteMember of the Board of DirectorsMaurice ShaferMember of the Board of DirectorsGlenn OliphantMember of the Board of DirectorsErnest A. GalloMember of the Board of DirectorsJames R. GotcherGeneral Legal Counsel

Their names and their own statements in addition to the report to which they honourably sign their names are easily googled.http://www.ussliberty.org/gotcher.htm etc etc

You're proving to be a confirmation of a certain kind of stereotype, InternationalJew. I fear that you are exactly as Mr. Unz describes you: you genuinely think that you're on the side of the angels, and that the rest of us - even if we're Jewish - are "anti-semites".

LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up. It's not far fetched to imagine that such a man could also have covered up the Liberty incident.

By the way, Mr. Giraldi, what do you think of the allegations against Congressman Hastert? You interviewed Sibel Edmonds a number of years back. During the interview, she made allegations about Hastert being involved in a Turkish spying ring and receiving bribes. So perhaps you have some perspective or information to add to this.

“LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up. It’s not far fetched to imagine that such a man could also have covered up the Liberty incident.”

You put the cart ahead of the horse. LBJ wasn’t smart enough to be the architect of JFK’s assassination, and neither was George Bush or Dick Cheney smart enough to be the architects of 9/11. Instead, what both men did was play major roles in allowing Israel’s Mossad to engineer both events, while providing Israel with strategic assets, accompanied by official cover-up stories.

The Israelis were clearly tracking Mohammad Atta and his buddies...but there is a much simpler explanation as to why 9/11 took place...and it is the only one that makes sense:9/11 happened because of the monumental stupidity of millions of Native Born White American Christians who were way more interested in VINNNY TO KEYSHAN!!!!...VINNY TO CHREBET!!!!!...ROLL TIDE!!!...CATHOLIC SAINT JOE PA PATERNO!!!!...than the fact that the Muslims were being imported into the US for no other reason than to vote the White Jock Sniffers into a violently persecuted White racial minority at POTUS election time.

9/11, with probability fucking 1 was completely avoidable:1)no passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act(Native Born White American Extermination Act)....2)Implementation of a National Origins Immigration Policy that completely excluded all Muslims.

9/11 was actually quite easy to pull off...it was like taking candy from a retarded child...Native Born White American Christian Adult Jock Sniffer variety..

SumDood - One of many citations on this issue of unmarked Israeli aircraft is reported in

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/us_ints/ul-akins.html

Here at Unz we have a policy of allowing everyone to express their opinions freely, but I find your insinuations extremely offensive. If you think I "hate Jews" and engage in "more anti-Semitism" perhaps you can exercise your freedom of choice to avoid my articles in the future and find another website to engage in your brand of repulsive innuendo.

@Giraldi

The website you provided as “proof” is transparently anti-Israel (just read the banner at the top!), and cites people who were not on the Liberty during the attack.

Your claim is absurd and unsubstantiated, and I will not stop describing it thusly until you provide an eyewitness account of this alleged obscuring of aircraft markings. That’s all I ask, and it is a very reasonable standard to hold to. If the aircraft weren’t marked, McGonagle or Ennes would have said so on the record.

And, during a time of war (which was when the Liberty was attacked), when the enemies that surround Israel were using the exact same Mirage jets that Israel was flying, clearly identifying your own aircraft would appear to be mandatory to prevent fratricide.

And before you begin indignantly hyperventilating, please take note that I (a lapsed Catholic with no personal stake in Israel) have never claimed that the attack on the Liberty was an accident, or that it never happened. I just want the facts.

As to your declaration about my going elsewhere because you feel bad that I accurately described the anti-Israel bias of the authors and commenters at Unz…All I can say is that fish aren’t aware of the water they are swimming in, and you seem similarly oblivious to the veiled bigotry here. Anti-Semitism is a slippery slope, and there seems to be a large number of people here that are caught up in saying “wheeee!” as the wind rushes past them on the slide.

Supporters of Israel are on a slippery slope to the wrong side of history. No true Christian (lapsed or not) can support apartheid Israel. Gaza is a 1,000,000 person prison. Israel murdered 2,300 Palestinians last year - how can you support that?

p.s. "Anti-Semite" is another manufactured Jew lie - Arabs are Semites. Stop being a sucker.

The veterans of the USS liberty also claim that the planes were unmarked, both on their website, and on their formal report to the govt titled “A Report of War Crimes Committed Against the USS Liberty, June 8, 1967″.

https://www.usslibertyveterans.org/

Not "the veterans of the USS Liberty" but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Disguising the planes, indeed. The Egyptian and Israeli air forces flew different planes, and the Egyptian ones were all smoldering wreckages by June 8. Even wacky conspiracy theories need to at least try to be consistent: either the Jews are superhumanly clever schemers and manipulators, or they're stupid enough to try a ridiculously implausible "false flag" attack, but not both. Take your pick.

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Lies.

The report stating that the Israeli craft were unmarked is by the USS Liberty Veterans Association.

It is clearly signed by the entire board of the association. They are all veterans, many of them are depicted in Philip’s picture above.

Gary W. Brummett, President and
Member of the Board of Directors
Stan W. White
Member of the Board of Directors
Maurice Shafer
Member of the Board of Directors
Glenn Oliphant
Member of the Board of Directors
Ernest A. Gallo
Member of the Board of Directors
James R. Gotcher
General Legal Counsel

You’re proving to be a confirmation of a certain kind of stereotype, InternationalJew. I fear that you are exactly as Mr. Unz describes you: you genuinely think that you’re on the side of the angels, and that the rest of us – even if we’re Jewish – are “anti-semites”.

Brilliant. Another one-man web site, by a guy who, on the fateful day of June 8, 1967, was right there in...wait for it...Da Nang, South Vietnam. Who says he read a US DoD translation of Israeli communications. Which document oh so conveniently no longer exists.

Knock it off with the JFK worshipping sewage. JFK was a filthy reprobate and War Criminal....no doubt rotting in HELL!!! at the moment with the filthy stinking rotting reprobate Teddy. The Kennedy Clan=Irish Catholic Scum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

An article posted on a JFK Conspiracy Theories website hosted at Marquette University http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/jfk_cia.htm attempts to argue that JFK did not intend to “fragment and scatter to the winds” the CIA. The article claims (less than persuasively, imo) that JFK liked covert operations, used them frequently, and sought to enhance CIA ability to acquire intelligence and conduct covert operations.

"LBJ was most likely the architect of the JFK assassination and the subsequent cover up. It’s not far fetched to imagine that such a man could also have covered up the Liberty incident."

You put the cart ahead of the horse. LBJ wasn't smart enough to be the architect of JFK's assassination, and neither was George Bush or Dick Cheney smart enough to be the architects of 9/11. Instead, what both men did was play major roles in allowing Israel's Mossad to engineer both events, while providing Israel with strategic assets, accompanied by official cover-up stories.

The Israelis were clearly tracking Mohammad Atta and his buddies…but there is a much simpler explanation as to why 9/11 took place…and it is the only one that makes sense:9/11 happened because of the monumental stupidity of millions of Native Born White American Christians who were way more interested in VINNNY TO KEYSHAN!!!!…VINNY TO CHREBET!!!!!…ROLL TIDE!!!…CATHOLIC SAINT JOE PA PATERNO!!!!…than the fact that the Muslims were being imported into the US for no other reason than to vote the White Jock Sniffers into a violently persecuted White racial minority at POTUS election time.

9/11, with probability fucking 1 was completely avoidable:1)no passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act(Native Born White American Extermination Act)….2)Implementation of a National Origins Immigration Policy that completely excluded all Muslims.

9/11 was actually quite easy to pull off…it was like taking candy from a retarded child…Native Born White American Christian Adult Jock Sniffer variety..

Are you saying that Muslim immigrants being tracked and monitored by Mossad agents were responsible for installing nano-thermite and other advanced incendiaries in the three buildings that exploded and collapsed at free-fall acceleration on 9/11?

I notice in some commentary Jews are blamed for everything, in other commentary Jews have never done any wrong… which makes it easy to throw both lines of commentary in the dust bin.

Insofar as JFK and LBJ ..

So there it was, according to E. Howard Hunt. LBJ had Kennedy killed. It had long been speculated upon. But now E. Howard was saying that’s the way it was. And that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn’t the only shooter in Dallas. There was also, on the grassy knoll, a French gunman, presumably the Corsican Mafia assassin Lucien Sarti, who has figured prominently in other assassination theories

Relevant to this is the so-called ‘Jackie O’ tapes that surfaced only to be buried:

In the sensational tapes recorded by the First Lady months after the President’s death, broadcast by ABC, Kennedy revealed her belief that Johnson and a cabal of Texas tycoons orchestrated the murder of her husband by gunman Lee Harvey Oswald

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Lies.

The report stating that the Israeli craft were unmarked is by the USS Liberty Veterans Association.

It is clearly signed by the entire board of the association. They are all veterans, many of them are depicted in Philip's picture above.

Gary W. Brummett, President andMember of the Board of DirectorsStan W. WhiteMember of the Board of DirectorsMaurice ShaferMember of the Board of DirectorsGlenn OliphantMember of the Board of DirectorsErnest A. GalloMember of the Board of DirectorsJames R. GotcherGeneral Legal Counsel

Their names and their own statements in addition to the report to which they honourably sign their names are easily googled.http://www.ussliberty.org/gotcher.htm etc etc

You're proving to be a confirmation of a certain kind of stereotype, InternationalJew. I fear that you are exactly as Mr. Unz describes you: you genuinely think that you're on the side of the angels, and that the rest of us - even if we're Jewish - are "anti-semites".

Brilliant. Another one-man web site, by a guy who, on the fateful day of June 8, 1967, was right there in…wait for it…Da Nang, South Vietnam. Who says he read a US DoD translation of Israeli communications. Which document oh so conveniently no longer exists.

Are you seriously pretending that you haven't noticed that the other 5 are military servicemen on the USS Liberty on the day of the attack, IJ?

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Lies.

It's signed by the servicemen who were on the ship on the day. http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf

The report makes unambiguous that the planes were UNMARKED.

Who else has any authority to speak about whether the planes were marked, except the servicemen on the USS Liberty? The other servicemen also speak to this. Here's an interview of another surivor, Tourney. His radio message, which on that day was received by that "guy" in Vietnam, as you put it:

“About half-an-hour into the attack,” he said, “one of our men stretched a long wire so that we could transmit a message to the Sixth Fleet: ‘Under Attack by Unmarked Fighters. Send Help.’ - See more at: http://americanfreepress.net/?p=2309#sthash.vP0b1qgI.dpuf

The planes were unmarked. So say the USS Liberty servicemen. Why would they say so if the planes weren't unmarked, IJ?

I stand second to no one in my desire to see the Rogue State brought to occasional justice, but the Liberty incident has been milked for all it's worth for too long. Continuing to do so negatively affects ones credibility.

I couldn’t disagree more, Kyle. The incident keeps getting “milked” because it has never been resolved. When the US government acknowledges its disgraceful act and its unending loyalty to the criminal state of Israel , THEN it can be put to rest.

Brilliant. Another one-man web site, by a guy who, on the fateful day of June 8, 1967, was right there in...wait for it...Da Nang, South Vietnam. Who says he read a US DoD translation of Israeli communications. Which document oh so conveniently no longer exists.

Nice try. What else ya got?

Are you seriously pretending that you haven’t noticed that the other 5 are military servicemen on the USS Liberty on the day of the attack, IJ?

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Who else has any authority to speak about whether the planes were marked, except the servicemen on the USS Liberty? The other servicemen also speak to this. Here’s an interview of another surivor, Tourney. His radio message, which on that day was received by that “guy” in Vietnam, as you put it:

“Never before in the history of the United States Navy has a Naval Board of Inquiry ignored the testimony of American military eyewitnesses and taken on faith the word of their attackers.”- Captain Richard Kiepfer, MD.

Congress has not INVESTIGATED Israel’s June 8, 1967 attack on the USS Liberty which killed 34 unarmed Americans and wounded 174 service men.

They concluded there was compelling evidence that Israel’s attack was deliberate and “Israel committed acts of murder against American servicemen and an act of war against the United States.”

The esteemed experts expressed their “Duty to the brave crew of USS LIBERTY and all Americans who are asked to serve in our Armed Forces, hereby call upon the Department of the Navy, the Congress of the United States and the American people to immediately take the following actions”:

The first called for a new and true Court of Inquiry to be convened.

The second, for every appropriate committee of the Congress of the United States to investigate the actions of the White House and Defense Department that prevented the rescue of the USS LIBERTY, including the NSA, CIA and military intelligence.

The third called for the establishment of every June 8 to be known as USS LIBERTY REMEMBRANCE DAY.

We, the undersigned Call on Congress to honor the USS LIBERTY and Support the Troops by taking the 3 steps listed above!

Please Sign and Share Petition to Congress and Obama: HONOR THE USS LIBERTY:

The website you provided as "proof" is transparently anti-Israel (just read the banner at the top!), and cites people who were not on the Liberty during the attack.

Your claim is absurd and unsubstantiated, and I will not stop describing it thusly until you provide an eyewitness account of this alleged obscuring of aircraft markings. That's all I ask, and it is a very reasonable standard to hold to. If the aircraft weren't marked, McGonagle or Ennes would have said so on the record.

And, during a time of war (which was when the Liberty was attacked), when the enemies that surround Israel were using the exact same Mirage jets that Israel was flying, clearly identifying your own aircraft would appear to be mandatory to prevent fratricide.

And before you begin indignantly hyperventilating, please take note that I (a lapsed Catholic with no personal stake in Israel) have never claimed that the attack on the Liberty was an accident, or that it never happened. I just want the facts.

As to your declaration about my going elsewhere because you feel bad that I accurately described the anti-Israel bias of the authors and commenters at Unz...All I can say is that fish aren't aware of the water they are swimming in, and you seem similarly oblivious to the veiled bigotry here. Anti-Semitism is a slippery slope, and there seems to be a large number of people here that are caught up in saying "wheeee!" as the wind rushes past them on the slide.

“Anti-Semitism is a slippery slope”

Supporters of Israel are on a slippery slope to the wrong side of history. No true Christian (lapsed or not) can support apartheid Israel. Gaza is a 1,000,000 person prison. Israel murdered 2,300 Palestinians last year – how can you support that?

p.s. “Anti-Semite” is another manufactured Jew lie – Arabs are Semites. Stop being a sucker.

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

How do you find the time to comment here? Aren't there some Protocols that you are busy publishing?

I couldn't disagree more, Kyle. The incident keeps getting "milked" because it has never been resolved. When the US government acknowledges its disgraceful act and its unending loyalty to the criminal state of Israel , THEN it can be put to rest.

“When the US government acknowledges its disgraceful act and its unending loyalty to the criminal state of Israel , THEN it can be put to rest.”

Exactly – the shame of the US leaders not backing their sailors is the major crime that we should care about.

p.s. Jews will be Jews – killing is easy for them. They killed 2,300 Palestinians last year. How many will they kill today?

The guy in Vietnam actually saw transcripts of conversations between the attacking pilots and Israeli ground control :

http://www.chicagotribune.com/chi-liberty_tuesoct02-story.html#page=3

The transcript published by the Jerusalem Post bore scant resemblance to the one that in 1967 rolled off the teletype machine behind the sealed vault door at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, where Steve Forslund worked as an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, then the highest-level strategic planning office in the Air Force.

"The ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it," Forslund recalled. "The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.

"The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors."

Forslund said he clearly recalled "the obvious frustration of the controller over the inability of the pilots to sink the target quickly and completely."

"He kept insisting the mission had to sink the target, and was frustrated with the pilots' responses that it didn't sink."

Nor, Forslund said, was he the only member of his unit to have read the transcripts. "Everybody saw these," said Forslund, now retired after 26 years in the military.

Forslund's recollections are supported by those of two other Air Force intelligence specialists, working in widely separate locations, who say they also saw the transcripts of the attacking Israeli pilots' communications.

One is James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service's 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam.

"It was clear that the Israeli aircraft were being vectored directly at USS Liberty," Gotcher recalled in an e-mail. "Later, around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to 'complete the job' and get out of there."

Six thousand miles from Omaha, on the Mediterranean island of Crete, Air Force Capt. Richard Block was commanding an intelligence wing of more than 100 analysts and cryptologists monitoring Middle Eastern communications.

The transcripts Block remembered seeing "were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret. Some of the pilots did not want to attack," Block said. "The pilots said, 'This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?'

"And ground control came back and said, 'Yes, follow orders.'"

Gotcher and Forslund agreed with Block that the Jerusalem Post transcript was not at all like what they remember reading.

The transcript published by the Jerusalem Post bore scant resemblance to the one that in 1967 rolled off the teletype machine behind the sealed vault door at Offutt Air Force Base in Omaha, where Steve Forslund worked as an intelligence analyst for the 544th Air Reconnaissance Technical Wing, then the highest-level strategic planning office in the Air Force.

“The ground control station stated that the target was American and for the aircraft to confirm it,” Forslund recalled. “The aircraft did confirm the identity of the target as American, by the American flag.

“The ground control station ordered the aircraft to attack and sink the target and ensure they left no survivors.”

Forslund said he clearly recalled “the obvious frustration of the controller over the inability of the pilots to sink the target quickly and completely.”

“He kept insisting the mission had to sink the target, and was frustrated with the pilots’ responses that it didn’t sink.”

Nor, Forslund said, was he the only member of his unit to have read the transcripts. “Everybody saw these,” said Forslund, now retired after 26 years in the military.

Forslund’s recollections are supported by those of two other Air Force intelligence specialists, working in widely separate locations, who say they also saw the transcripts of the attacking Israeli pilots’ communications.

One is James Gotcher, now an attorney in California, who was then serving with the Air Force Security Service’s 6924th Security Squadron, an adjunct of the NSA, at Son Tra, Vietnam.

“It was clear that the Israeli aircraft were being vectored directly at USS Liberty,” Gotcher recalled in an e-mail. “Later, around the time Liberty got off a distress call, the controllers seemed to panic and urged the aircraft to ‘complete the job’ and get out of there.”

Six thousand miles from Omaha, on the Mediterranean island of Crete, Air Force Capt. Richard Block was commanding an intelligence wing of more than 100 analysts and cryptologists monitoring Middle Eastern communications.

The transcripts Block remembered seeing “were teletypes, way beyond Top Secret. Some of the pilots did not want to attack,” Block said. “The pilots said, ‘This is an American ship. Do you still want us to attack?’

“And ground control came back and said, ‘Yes, follow orders.’”

Gotcher and Forslund agreed with Block that the Jerusalem Post transcript was not at all like what they remember reading.

I wouldn't exactly say the assassination conspiracy has been kept secret, plenty of people have talked even if you have never heard of them. Jim Garrison unearthed a fair number of the conspirators and one can make educated guesses on the others, that is despite evidence being destroyed or classified (still!) along side witnesses suffering untimely deaths.

I would suggest you read Colonel John Hughes-Wilson's book on the subject, an impeccable authority on such clandestine affairs although I am told he was more a behind the desk guy than in the field.

Within 5-7 days of the assassination, most or all of the conspirators would have been under arrest (as with Lincoln, Alexander II, Hitler, DeGaulle). BTW, Oswald had a day and a half to talk in order to buy his life had he anything to sell.

Part of LBJ's attitude was probably predicated on the fact that the "Jewish vote" was a critically important part of the Democratic coalition, and he probably wanted to run for re-election at that time. Even if he'd already decided against running, he'd devoted his life to the Democratic Party, and forcing the USS Liberty incident into the open would have likely blown the party apart, with pro- and anti-Israeli factions forming.

The Republicans might have done something, but were badly derailed by Vietnam and then Watergate, and by the time Reagan came along, the party had sold its souls to the evangelical Christian vote, and if anything, evangelical Christians are more pro-Israel than many Israelis. Ironically enough, Reagan would have likely won even if he had done nothing to court the evangelicals, thanks to the Iran hostage crisis and Jimmy Carter's talent for self-destruction. But by that time, he'd signed on their dotted line, and didn't want to drive a bunch of new Republican voters (evangelicals, before this, had tended to be hereditary Democrats) back into the Democrats' arms.

It’s not the Jewish ‘vote’ that’s important. It’s their control of the money spigot and the media. And also the ‘anti-Semitism’ weapon, guaranteed to terminate the career of any politician that puts America first.

“In the days leading up to Ben-Gurion’s resignation from office, he and JFK had been involved in an unpublicized, contentious debate over the possibility of Israel getting nuclear capabilities. Their disagreement eventually escalated into a full-fledged war of words that was virtually ignored in the press. Ethan Bronner wrote about this secret battle between JFK and Ben-Gurion years later in a New York Times article on October 31, 1998, calling it a “fiercely hidden subject.” In fact, the Kennedy/Ben-Gurion conversations are still classified by the United States Government. Maybe this is the case because Ben-Gurion’s rage and frustration became so intense – and his power so great within Israel – that Piper contends it was at the center of the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. This stance is supported by New York banker Abe Feinberg, who describes the situation as such: “Ben-Gurion could be vicious, and he had such a hatred of the old man [Joe Kennedy, Sr., JFK’s father].” Ben-Gurion despised Joe Kennedy because he felt that not only was he an anti-Semite, but that he had also sided with Hitler during the 1930’s and 40’s.
Ben-Gurion was convinced that Israel needed nuclear weapons to insure its survival, while Kennedy was dead-set against it. This inability to reach an agreement caused obvious problems. One of them revolved around Kennedy’s decision that he would make America his top priority in regard to foreign policy, and not Israel! Kennedy planned to honor the 1950 Tripartite Declaration which said that the United States would retaliate against any nation in the Middle East that attacked any other country. Ben-Gurion, on the other hand, wanted the Kennedy Administration to sell them offensive weapons, particularly Hawk missiles.
The two leaders thus engaged in a brutal letter exchange, but Kennedy wouldn’t budge. Ben-Gurion, obsessed by this issue, slipped into total paranoia, feeling that Kennedy’s obstinacy was a blatant threat to the very existence of Israel as a nation. Piper writes, “Ben-Gurion had devoted a lifetime creating a Jewish State and guiding it into the world arena. And, in Ben-Gurion’s eyes, John F. Kennedy was an enemy of the Jewish people and his beloved state of Israel.” He continues, “The ‘nuclear option’ was not only at the very core of Ben-Gurion’s personal world view, but the very foundation of Israel’s national security policy.”
Ben-Gurion was so preoccupied with obtaining nuclear weapons that on June 27, 1963, eleven days after resigning from office, he announced, “I do not know of any other nation whose neighbors declare that they wish to terminate it, and not only declare, but prepare for it by all means available to them. We must have no illusions that what is declared every day in Cairo, Damascus, and Iraq are just words. This is the thought that guides the Arab leaders … I am confident … that science is able to provide us with the weapons that will serve the peace and deter our enemies.”

“Ben-Gurion had no qualms about Israel’s need for weapons of mass destruction,” and “Ben-Gurion’s world view and his decisive governing style shaped his critical role in instigating Israel’s nuclear progress.”
Kennedy, on the other hand, was adamant in his refusal to promote Israel’s ascension to the nuclear stage. Avner Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, stresses, “No American president was more concerned with the danger of nuclear proliferation than John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He was convinced that the spread of nuclear weapons would make the world more dangerous and undermine U.S. interests.” Cohen continues at the end of this passage, “The only example Kennedy used to make this point was Israel.”
Realizing that Kennedy would not change his mind, Ben-Gurion decided to join forces with Communist China. Both countries were greatly interested in creating nuclear programs, and so began their secret joint dealings. Working in unison through intermediary Shaul Eisenberg, who was a partner of Mossad gun-runner and accountant Tibor Rosenbaum, Israel and China proceeded to develop their own nuclear capabilities without the knowledge of the United States.
. . .
The danger of Israel developing the Bomb in unison with China became a highly volatile situation, and was closely monitored by the CIA.
Intent on pursuing this path, the Israelis constructed a nuclear facility at Dimona. When Kennedy demanded that the U.S. inspect this plant, Ben-Gurion was so incensed that he erected another PHONY facility that held no evidence of nuclear research and development. Fully aware of their shenanigans, though, JFK told Charles Bartlett, “The sons of bitches lie to me constantly about their nuclear capability.”
Avner Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, reiterates this claim by saying that Ben-Gurion had taken the nuclear issue so closely to heart that he, “concluded that he could not tell the truth about Dimona to American leaders, not even in private.”
Dr. Gerald M. Steinberg, political science professor at Bar-Ilan University’s BESA Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv, weighs in by saying, “Between 1961 and 1963, the Kennedy administration placed a great deal of pressure on Ben-Gurion in the effort to pressure for acceptance of international inspection of Dimona and Israeli abdication of their nuclear weapons. This pressure apparently did not alter Israeli policy, but it was a contributing factor to Ben-Gurion’s resignation in 1963.”

July 4 1963
Telegram from the Department of State to the Embassy in Israel transmitting the text of a letter from President Kennedy to Prime Minister Eshkol regarding visits to Dimona.

“You are aware, I am sure, of the exchanges which I had with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion concerning American visits to Israel’s nuclear facility at Dimona. Most recently, the Prime Minister wrote to me on May 27. His words reflected a most intense personal consideration of a problem that I know is not easy for your Government, as it is not for mine. We welcomed the former Prime Minister’s strong reaffirmation that Dimona will be devoted exclusively to peaceful purposes and the reaffirmation also of Israel’s willingness to permit periodic visits to Dimona.
“I regret having to add to your burdens so soon after your assumption of office, but I feel the crucial importance of this problem necessitates my taking up with you at this early date certain further considerations, arising out of Mr. Ben-Gurion’s May 27 letter, as to the nature and scheduling of such visits.
“I am sure you will agree that these visits should be as nearly as possible in accord with international standards, thereby resolving all doubts as to the peaceful intent of the Dimona project. [3-1/2 lines of source text not declassified]
“Therefore, I asked our scientists to review the alternative schedules of visits we and you had proposed. If Israel’s purposes are to be clear beyond reasonable doubt, I believe that the schedule which would best serve our common purposes would be a visit early this summer, another visit in June 1964, and thereafter at intervals of six months. I am sure that such a schedule should not cause you any more difficulty than that which Mr. Ben-Gurion proposed in his May 27 letter. It would be essential, and I understand that Mr. Ben-Gurion’s letter was in accord with this, that our scientists have access to all areas of the Dimona site and to any related part of the complex, such as fuel fabrication facilities or plutonium separation plant, and that sufficient time be allotted for a thorough examination.
“Knowing that you fully appreciate the truly vital significance of this matter to the future well-being of Israel, to the United States, and internationally, I am sure our carefully considered request will have your most sympathetic attention.
“Sincerely,
“John F. Kennedy”
In conveying foregoing, you should stress that exhaustive examination by the most competent USG authorities has established scheduling embodied in President’s letter as minimum to achieve a purpose we see as vital to Israel and to our mutual interests. Scientific reasons for this are that (a) only a visit before criticality can fully establish features of a reactor–this is reason for requested early summer visit which we hope could be this month or next at latest; (b) it is widely known and accepted by knowledgeable international scientific community that, if intended for ultimate production of weapons grade plutonium, a reactor of this size would be operated to burn a single fuel load approximately every six months, whereas for peaceful purposes optimum burn-up time would be about two years–this is what makes it essential that after mid-1964 visits be scheduled semi-annually.
Rusk

kennedy administraOne of many documents at this time reflecting the Johnson Administration’s concerns regarding Israel’s nuclear policy and the fear that Israel was secretly engaged in weapons development.

136. Memorandum From the Department of State’s Executive Secretary (Read) to the President’s Special Assistant for National Security Affairs (Bundy)1
Washington, February 5, 1965.
SUBJECT
Dimona Inspection and Need to Implement Initiative to Prevent Nuclear Proliferation in the Near East
A United States inspection team visited the Dimona reactor site January 30, 1965. Although the ten hours spent at the site did not permit as detailed a visit as desirable, the team believes there was sufficient time to determine the status of activity at Dimona. Major findings (see enclosure)2 included:
1. The future direction of atomic energy development in Israel appears uncertain because anticipated acquisition of a nuclear power and desalting plant has increased Israeli interest in slightly enriched uranium fueled reactors from abroad and reduced interest in developing natural uranium fueled reactors in Israel.
2. While nothing suggests an early weapons development program, the Dimona site has excellent development and production capability that warrants continued surveillance at intervals not to exceed one year.
The team findings indicate that we can afford to accede to Prime Minister Eshkol’s request that we postpone the next agreed six-monthly inspection until after the parliamentary elections in November this year.
We remain concerned that Israel may have succeeded in concealing a decision to develop nuclear weapons. The team findings must be weighed against the following facts:
1. Israel concealed the existence of the Dimona reactor from us for about two years.
2. Israeli officials did not allow adequate time for thorough inspection of the Dimona site and arranged no visits to sites of projected related facilities.
3. Israeli officials ruled questions about procurement of uranium from abroad “outside the scope of the visit” and suggested taking them up through normal diplomatic channels.
4. Israel is acquiring missiles from France designed to accommodate either high-explosive or nuclear warheads.
5. Public and private statements by Israeli officials suggest military planning that includes the use of nuclear weapons.
Given these circumstances, we urge prompt approval of the request of the Acting Secretary to the President December 18, 1964,3 for authority to initiate negotiations with Israel to extend IAEA safeguards to all Israeli nuclear facilities.4
Ben H. Read

The Apollo Affair was a 1965 incident in which a US company, Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC), in the Pittsburgh suburbs of Apollo, Pennsylavnia was investigated for losing 200–600 pounds (91–272 kg) of highly enriched uranium.
In 1965, the FBI investigated Zalman Shapiro, the company’s president, over the loss of 206 pounds (93 kg) of highly enriched uranium. After investigations by the Atomic Energy Commission, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, other government agencies, and inquiring reporters, no charges were ever filed.

A General Accounting Office study of the investigations declassified in May 2010 stated “We believe a timely, concerted effort on the part of these three agencies would have greatly aided and possibly solved the NUMEC diversion questions, if they desired to do so.”[1]

In February 1976 the CIA briefed senior staff at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) about the matter, stating that the CIA believed the missing highly enriched uranium went to Israel. The NRC informed the White House, leading to President-elect Carter being briefed about the investigation. Carter asked for an assessment by his National Security Advisor, whose staff concluded “The CIA case is persuasive, though not conclusive.”[2][3]

Some remain convinced that Israel received 206 pounds (93 kg) of highly enriched uranium from NUMEC,[4][5] particularly given the visit of Rafi Eitan, later revealed as an Israeli spy and who was later involved in the Jonathan Pollard incident.[6] In June 1986, analyst Anthony Cordesman told United Press International:

There is no conceivable reason for Eitan to have gone [to the Apollo plant] but for the nuclear material.”[6]

—————————-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafi_EitanRafael “Rafi” Eitan (born 1926) is an Israeli politician and former intelligence officer. Today he leads Gil and is a former Minister of Pensioner Affairs. In the past, he was in charge of the Mossad operation that led to the kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann. He served as an advisor on terrorism to Prime Minister Menachem Begin, and in 1981 he was appointed to head the Bureau of Scientific Relations, then an intelligence entity on par with Mossad, Aman and Shabak. Eitan assumed responsibility for and resigned over the Jonathan Pollard affair, and the Bureau was disbanded. From 1985 until 1993, he was head of the government’s Chemicals company, which was expanded under his leadership. After 1993, he became a businessman, noted for several large scale agricultural and construction ventures in Cuba.
. . .

During the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Eitan served in Army intelligence, from where he was propelled to commanding posts in the internal intelligence agency (Shin Bet). Later, Eitan served as Chief of Coordination between Shin Bet and Mossad. This position would allow him the biggest triumph in a post-Holocaust Israel: the capture of Adolf Eichmann. In a daring mission, after much intelligence research recognized Adolf Eichmann alive and well, and living in Argentina, Eitan and his team went to Argentina to kidnap and take him to Israel, where he was tried and found guilty of atrocious crimes against the Jewish people during World War II. During the process of capturing Eichmann, Eitan personally vetoed the capture of Josef Mengele, who was under Mossad surveillance, arguing that the eventual loss of focus could jeopardize the Eichmann mission.[1]
During 1964-1966, Eitan headed a two-year operation in which armaments sold and delivered by the Germans to the Egyptian government ‘disappeared’. In those days, Israel had no peace treaty with Egypt.
In 1968 Eitan, listed as an Israeli Ministry of Defense chemist, visited the U.S. Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC) nuclear fuel plant, where later it is alleged 200 pounds of highly enriched uranium disappeared and was diverted to Israel in an event known as The Apollo Affair.[2]Eitan was also involved in the secret planning and implementation of the attack on the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor in June 1981.

In June 1984 Eitan initialed an espionage operation against the United States where-in he recruited Naval Intelligence Analyst Jonathan Jay Pollard to steal American top secret material. The operation lasted eighteen months and was shut down after the arrest of Pollard, who is now serving life in an American federal prison.[3]
Post-intelligence career[edit]
Eitan continued his work in intelligence until 1972, when he left the organization and went on to the private sector, raising tropical fish and other agricultural ventures. But in 1978, the government of Menachem Begin, the then Prime Minister of Israel, called him back to be his advisor on terrorism, as Eitan was regarded and admired as one of the most respected experts in this field. In 1981, Eitan was named head of the Defense Ministry’s Lekem, the Bureau for Scientific Relations, replacing legendary Israeli spy-master Benjamin Blumberg, where he continued work on counter-terrorism.

According to the British journalist, Gordon Thomas, Eitan then participated in a partnership between Israeli and U.S. intelligence during the early 1980s in selling to foreign intelligence agencies in excess of $500 million worth of licenses to a trojan horse version of the Washington, D.C.-based, Inslaw Inc.’s people-tracking software called Promis, in order to spy on them.[4] In 1984, Lekem was put in touch with Jonathan Pollard, an American citizen, who worked on anti-terrorist activities at the US Naval Investigative Services. Pollard had contacted the Israeli government with top secret information on the terrorist activities of Israel’s enemies. Jonathan Pollard was exposed and arrested in the US in 1985. His arrest revealed the existence of Lekem to US authorities.

Also in 1985 In California, a US Aerospace Engineer, Richard Kelly Smyth, the President of a company called MILCO, was indicted for smuggling over 800 krytron to Israel without the required US State Department Munitions Export License.Because of their potential for use as triggers of nuclear weapons, the export of krytrons is tightly regulated in the United States. A number of cases involving the smuggling or attempted smuggling of krytrons have been reported, as countries seeking to develop nuclear weapons have attempted to procure supplies of krytrons for igniting their weapons. Just before trial, and facing a possible 105 years in prison, Richard Kelly Smyth and his wife suddenly disappeared. Sixteen years later they were discovered and arrested while living as fugitives in Malaga, Spain, and extradited back to the United States where he was convicted in the case. The krytrons shipped by Smyth were sent to an Israeli company called Heli-Trading Ltd. owned by prominent Israeli movie producer Arnon Milchan (the producer of Pretty Woman, JFK, LA Confidential, Once Upon a Time in America, Brazil, Fight Club, Mr. and Mrs. Smyth… and many more movies).

Before his prominent Hollywood career, Mr, Milchan had served for decades as a Lekem agent, under the direct command of Rafi Eitan’s predecessor, Benjamin Blumberg. It later became clear that the company MILCO served as a Lekem front company for obtaining sensitive equipment, technologies and materials for Israeli secret defense-related programs, and in particular its nuclear program.[5]

The Israeli government asserted that the MILCO Krytron incident was a simple mistake by the “exporter” Milco, and that the Pollard operation was an unauthorized deviation from its policy of not conducting espionage in the United States, before an admission in 1998 of Israeli responsibility. In 1987 the Israeli government set up a commission to investigate Lekem’s failure, which found it would be in Israel’s interest to take responsibility for the Pollard case. In 1987 following the difficult Pollard and Milco cases, the Israeli government decided to disband Lekem, whose functions were assigned to the Director of Security of the Defense Establishment, adding technical and scientific intelligence to its responsibilities which include internal investigations of the defense ministry.
Following the disbandment of Lekem, Eitan was offered the position as head of the state-owned Israel Chemicals Corporation, from where he retired in 1993 at the age of 67. During his tenure, the company underwent a rapid expansion in terms of sales, development and manpower making it the largest government-held firm in the country.

——————

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DimonaDimona was one of the development towns created in the 1950s under the leadership of Israel’s first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion. Dimona itself was conceived in 1953, and settled in 1955, mostly by new immigrants from Northern Africa, who also constructed the city’s houses. The emblem of Dimona (as a local council), adopted 2 March 1961, appeared on a stamp issued on 24 March 1965.
When the Israeli nuclear program started later that decade, a location not far from the city was chosen for the Negev Nuclear Research Center due to its relative isolation in the desert and availability of housing.

—-
In spite of a gradual decrease during the 1980s, the city’s population began to grow once again with the beginning of the Russian immigration in the 1990s. Currently, Dimona is the third largest city in the Negev, with the population of 33,900. Due to projected rapid population growth in the Negev, the city is expected to triple in size by 2025.[2]

“Isabella Ginor and Gideon Remez’s groundbreaking history of the Six-Day War in 1967 radically changes our understanding of that conflict, casting it as a crucial arena of Cold War intrigue that has shaped the Middle East to this day. The authors, award-winning Israeli journalists and historians, have investigated newly available documents and testimonies from the former Soviet Union, cross-checked them against Israeli and Western sources, and arrived at fresh and startling conclusions.

Contrary to previous interpretations, Ginor and Remez’s book shows that the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war—well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis.”

Does the United States have a similar history with any other ally [although -- there is not and cannot be a treaty of alliance between Israel and the United States because Israel has not yet named permanent borders, and the US may not ally with a state that has nuclear weapons but is not a signatory to NPT].

Does the United States have a similar history with any enemy of the United States?

It’s high time Ron brought aboard a JFK assassination conspiracy theorist. As Giraldi is the Unz Review’s foreign policy editor, the new guy could be history editor or something.

That's actually a pretty good idea. Unfortunately, my top choice probably isn't available. He would be David Talbot, founder of Salon.com and a well-regarded mainstream journalist.

Frankly, I'm ashamed to admit that for nearly my entire life I never paid the slightest attention to "JFK conspiracy theories," assuming they were all just the total nonsense the MSM suggested. However, when I read Talbot's book BROTHERS on the JFK/RFK assassinations a couple of years ago, it seemed extremely persuasive to me. So I included that I'd probably been entirely wrong for all those years.

One reason I heard about Talbot's book was that it was so glowingly reviewed in all the elite MSM outlets, though for mysterious reasons the reviewers tended to be quite circumspect about the actual topic. But if all the elite MSM praised the Talbot book, and Talbot provided *overwhelming* evidence of a JFK conspiracy, why should I or anyone believe otherwise? And the Douglass book, which came out more recently, covered some of the same ground, and once again was glowingly praised by all the elite MSM outlets I read.

So, in effect, our entire elite MSM has now quietly done a total about-face on the JFK assassination, and the only people I still see these days claiming it *wasn't* a "conspiracy" are anonymous internet commenters and other random nuts.

And once you're reasonably persuaded that the MSM had fooled you about something so enormous for so many decades, well, you tend to become more cautious above taking them at face value about anything else...

You’re proving to be a confirmation of a certain kind of stereotype, InternationalJew. I fear that you are exactly as Mr. Unz describes you: you genuinely think that you’re on the side of the angels, and that the rest of us – even if we’re Jewish – are “anti-semites”.

I find myself regretting writing the above, it can’t be entertained.

Mr. Unz, do you think it’s possible that IJ at some level does not understand that the survivors indeed testify that the planes were unmarked? Is it possible that IJ genuinely is ignorant or (self-)deceived?

The website you provided as "proof" is transparently anti-Israel (just read the banner at the top!), and cites people who were not on the Liberty during the attack.

Your claim is absurd and unsubstantiated, and I will not stop describing it thusly until you provide an eyewitness account of this alleged obscuring of aircraft markings. That's all I ask, and it is a very reasonable standard to hold to. If the aircraft weren't marked, McGonagle or Ennes would have said so on the record.

And, during a time of war (which was when the Liberty was attacked), when the enemies that surround Israel were using the exact same Mirage jets that Israel was flying, clearly identifying your own aircraft would appear to be mandatory to prevent fratricide.

And before you begin indignantly hyperventilating, please take note that I (a lapsed Catholic with no personal stake in Israel) have never claimed that the attack on the Liberty was an accident, or that it never happened. I just want the facts.

As to your declaration about my going elsewhere because you feel bad that I accurately described the anti-Israel bias of the authors and commenters at Unz...All I can say is that fish aren't aware of the water they are swimming in, and you seem similarly oblivious to the veiled bigotry here. Anti-Semitism is a slippery slope, and there seems to be a large number of people here that are caught up in saying "wheeee!" as the wind rushes past them on the slide.

Anti-Semitism is a slippery slope,

Can you please define Anti-Semitism for me because it does seem to be thrown around a lot.

Anti-Semitism : A term used by the faux conservative wing of the progressive movement to signify that the person being called the name is winning an argument. The faux liberal wing uses "racist" in the same way.

“In the days leading up to Ben-Gurion’s resignation from office, he and JFK had been involved in an unpublicized, contentious debate over the possibility of Israel getting nuclear capabilities. Their disagreement eventually escalated into a full-fledged war of words that was virtually ignored in the press. Ethan Bronner wrote about this secret battle between JFK and Ben-Gurion years later in a New York Times article on October 31, 1998, calling it a “fiercely hidden subject.” In fact, the Kennedy/Ben-Gurion conversations are still classified by the United States Government. Maybe this is the case because Ben-Gurion’s rage and frustration became so intense – and his power so great within Israel – that Piper contends it was at the center of the conspiracy to kill John Kennedy. This stance is supported by New York banker Abe Feinberg, who describes the situation as such: “Ben-Gurion could be vicious, and he had such a hatred of the old man [Joe Kennedy, Sr., JFK’s father].” Ben-Gurion despised Joe Kennedy because he felt that not only was he an anti-Semite, but that he had also sided with Hitler during the 1930’s and 40’s.
Ben-Gurion was convinced that Israel needed nuclear weapons to insure its survival, while Kennedy was dead-set against it. This inability to reach an agreement caused obvious problems. One of them revolved around Kennedy’s decision that he would make America his top priority in regard to foreign policy, and not Israel! Kennedy planned to honor the 1950 Tripartite Declaration which said that the United States would retaliate against any nation in the Middle East that attacked any other country. Ben-Gurion, on the other hand, wanted the Kennedy Administration to sell them offensive weapons, particularly Hawk missiles.
The two leaders thus engaged in a brutal letter exchange, but Kennedy wouldn’t budge. Ben-Gurion, obsessed by this issue, slipped into total paranoia, feeling that Kennedy’s obstinacy was a blatant threat to the very existence of Israel as a nation. Piper writes, “Ben-Gurion had devoted a lifetime creating a Jewish State and guiding it into the world arena. And, in Ben-Gurion’s eyes, John F. Kennedy was an enemy of the Jewish people and his beloved state of Israel.” He continues, “The ‘nuclear option’ was not only at the very core of Ben-Gurion’s personal world view, but the very foundation of Israel’s national security policy.”
Ben-Gurion was so preoccupied with obtaining nuclear weapons that on June 27, 1963, eleven days after resigning from office, he announced, “I do not know of any other nation whose neighbors declare that they wish to terminate it, and not only declare, but prepare for it by all means available to them. We must have no illusions that what is declared every day in Cairo, Damascus, and Iraq are just words. This is the thought that guides the Arab leaders … I am confident … that science is able to provide us with the weapons that will serve the peace and deter our enemies.”

“Ben-Gurion had no qualms about Israel’s need for weapons of mass destruction,” and “Ben-Gurion’s world view and his decisive governing style shaped his critical role in instigating Israel’s nuclear progress.”
Kennedy, on the other hand, was adamant in his refusal to promote Israel’s ascension to the nuclear stage. Avner Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, stresses, “No American president was more concerned with the danger of nuclear proliferation than John Fitzgerald Kennedy. He was convinced that the spread of nuclear weapons would make the world more dangerous and undermine U.S. interests.” Cohen continues at the end of this passage, “The only example Kennedy used to make this point was Israel.”
Realizing that Kennedy would not change his mind, Ben-Gurion decided to join forces with Communist China. Both countries were greatly interested in creating nuclear programs, and so began their secret joint dealings. Working in unison through intermediary Shaul Eisenberg, who was a partner of Mossad gun-runner and accountant Tibor Rosenbaum, Israel and China proceeded to develop their own nuclear capabilities without the knowledge of the United States.
. . .
The danger of Israel developing the Bomb in unison with China became a highly volatile situation, and was closely monitored by the CIA.
Intent on pursuing this path, the Israelis constructed a nuclear facility at Dimona. When Kennedy demanded that the U.S. inspect this plant, Ben-Gurion was so incensed that he erected another PHONY facility that held no evidence of nuclear research and development. Fully aware of their shenanigans, though, JFK told Charles Bartlett, “The sons of bitches lie to me constantly about their nuclear capability.”
Avner Cohen, in Israel and the Bomb, reiterates this claim by saying that Ben-Gurion had taken the nuclear issue so closely to heart that he, “concluded that he could not tell the truth about Dimona to American leaders, not even in private.”
Dr. Gerald M. Steinberg, political science professor at Bar-Ilan University’s BESA Center for Strategic Studies in Tel Aviv, weighs in by saying, “Between 1961 and 1963, the Kennedy administration placed a great deal of pressure on Ben-Gurion in the effort to pressure for acceptance of international inspection of Dimona and Israeli abdication of their nuclear weapons. This pressure apparently did not alter Israeli policy, but it was a contributing factor to Ben-Gurion’s resignation in 1963.”

——————-

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/FRUS7_4_63.html

July 4 1963
Telegram from the Department of State to the Embassy in Israel transmitting the text of a letter from President Kennedy to Prime Minister Eshkol regarding visits to Dimona.

"You are aware, I am sure, of the exchanges which I had with Prime Minister Ben-Gurion concerning American visits to Israel's nuclear facility at Dimona. Most recently, the Prime Minister wrote to me on May 27. His words reflected a most intense personal consideration of a problem that I know is not easy for your Government, as it is not for mine. We welcomed the former Prime Minister's strong reaffirmation that Dimona will be devoted exclusively to peaceful purposes and the reaffirmation also of Israel's willingness to permit periodic visits to Dimona.
"I regret having to add to your burdens so soon after your assumption of office, but I feel the crucial importance of this problem necessitates my taking up with you at this early date certain further considerations, arising out of Mr. Ben-Gurion's May 27 letter, as to the nature and scheduling of such visits.
"I am sure you will agree that these visits should be as nearly as possible in accord with international standards, thereby resolving all doubts as to the peaceful intent of the Dimona project. [3-1/2 lines of source text not declassified]
"Therefore, I asked our scientists to review the alternative schedules of visits we and you had proposed. If Israel's purposes are to be clear beyond reasonable doubt, I believe that the schedule which would best serve our common purposes would be a visit early this summer, another visit in June 1964, and thereafter at intervals of six months. I am sure that such a schedule should not cause you any more difficulty than that which Mr. Ben-Gurion proposed in his May 27 letter. It would be essential, and I understand that Mr. Ben-Gurion's letter was in accord with this, that our scientists have access to all areas of the Dimona site and to any related part of the complex, such as fuel fabrication facilities or plutonium separation plant, and that sufficient time be allotted for a thorough examination.
"Knowing that you fully appreciate the truly vital significance of this matter to the future well-being of Israel, to the United States, and internationally, I am sure our carefully considered request will have your most sympathetic attention.
"Sincerely,
"John F. Kennedy"
In conveying foregoing, you should stress that exhaustive examination by the most competent USG authorities has established scheduling embodied in President's letter as minimum to achieve a purpose we see as vital to Israel and to our mutual interests. Scientific reasons for this are that (a) only a visit before criticality can fully establish features of a reactor--this is reason for requested early summer visit which we hope could be this month or next at latest; (b) it is widely known and accepted by knowledgeable international scientific community that, if intended for ultimate production of weapons grade plutonium, a reactor of this size would be operated to burn a single fuel load approximately every six months, whereas for peaceful purposes optimum burn-up time would be about two years--this is what makes it essential that after mid-1964 visits be scheduled semi-annually.
Rusk

——————-

Lyndon Johnson Administration:
Memorandum on Dimona Inspection and Nuclear Proliferation in the Near East
(February 5, 1965) http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/US-Israel/frus020565.html

kennedy administraOne of many documents at this time reflecting the Johnson Administration's concerns regarding Israel's nuclear policy and the fear that Israel was secretly engaged in weapons development.

136. Memorandum From the Department of State's Executive Secretary (Read) to the President's Special Assistant for National Security Affairs (Bundy)1
Washington, February 5, 1965.
SUBJECT
Dimona Inspection and Need to Implement Initiative to Prevent Nuclear Proliferation in the Near East
A United States inspection team visited the Dimona reactor site January 30, 1965. Although the ten hours spent at the site did not permit as detailed a visit as desirable, the team believes there was sufficient time to determine the status of activity at Dimona. Major findings (see enclosure)2 included:
1. The future direction of atomic energy development in Israel appears uncertain because anticipated acquisition of a nuclear power and desalting plant has increased Israeli interest in slightly enriched uranium fueled reactors from abroad and reduced interest in developing natural uranium fueled reactors in Israel.
2. While nothing suggests an early weapons development program, the Dimona site has excellent development and production capability that warrants continued surveillance at intervals not to exceed one year.
The team findings indicate that we can afford to accede to Prime Minister Eshkol's request that we postpone the next agreed six-monthly inspection until after the parliamentary elections in November this year.
We remain concerned that Israel may have succeeded in concealing a decision to develop nuclear weapons. The team findings must be weighed against the following facts:
1. Israel concealed the existence of the Dimona reactor from us for about two years.
2. Israeli officials did not allow adequate time for thorough inspection of the Dimona site and arranged no visits to sites of projected related facilities.
3. Israeli officials ruled questions about procurement of uranium from abroad "outside the scope of the visit" and suggested taking them up through normal diplomatic channels.
4. Israel is acquiring missiles from France designed to accommodate either high-explosive or nuclear warheads.
5. Public and private statements by Israeli officials suggest military planning that includes the use of nuclear weapons.
Given these circumstances, we urge prompt approval of the request of the Acting Secretary to the President December 18, 1964,3 for authority to initiate negotiations with Israel to extend IAEA safeguards to all Israeli nuclear facilities.4
Ben H. Read

1965 The Apollo Affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Apollo_Affair

The Apollo Affair was a 1965 incident in which a US company, Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC), in the Pittsburgh suburbs of Apollo, Pennsylavnia was investigated for losing 200–600 pounds (91–272 kg) of highly enriched uranium.
In 1965, the FBI investigated Zalman Shapiro, the company's president, over the loss of 206 pounds (93 kg) of highly enriched uranium. After investigations by the Atomic Energy Commission, the Central Intelligence Agency, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, other government agencies, and inquiring reporters, no charges were ever filed.

A General Accounting Office study of the investigations declassified in May 2010 stated "We believe a timely, concerted effort on the part of these three agencies would have greatly aided and possibly solved the NUMEC diversion questions, if they desired to do so."[1]

In February 1976 the CIA briefed senior staff at the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) about the matter, stating that the CIA believed the missing highly enriched uranium went to Israel. The NRC informed the White House, leading to President-elect Carter being briefed about the investigation. Carter asked for an assessment by his National Security Advisor, whose staff concluded "The CIA case is persuasive, though not conclusive."[2][3]

Some remain convinced that Israel received 206 pounds (93 kg) of highly enriched uranium from NUMEC,[4][5] particularly given the visit of Rafi Eitan, later revealed as an Israeli spy and who was later involved in the Jonathan Pollard incident.[6] In June 1986, analyst Anthony Cordesman told United Press International:

There is no conceivable reason for Eitan to have gone [to the Apollo plant] but for the nuclear material.”[6]

—————————-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rafi_Eitan
Rafael "Rafi" Eitan (born 1926) is an Israeli politician and former intelligence officer. Today he leads Gil and is a former Minister of Pensioner Affairs. In the past, he was in charge of the Mossad operation that led to the kidnapping of Adolf Eichmann. He served as an advisor on terrorism to Prime Minister Menachem Begin, and in 1981 he was appointed to head the Bureau of Scientific Relations, then an intelligence entity on par with Mossad, Aman and Shabak. Eitan assumed responsibility for and resigned over the Jonathan Pollard affair, and the Bureau was disbanded. From 1985 until 1993, he was head of the government's Chemicals company, which was expanded under his leadership. After 1993, he became a businessman, noted for several large scale agricultural and construction ventures in Cuba.
. . .

During the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, Eitan served in Army intelligence, from where he was propelled to commanding posts in the internal intelligence agency (Shin Bet). Later, Eitan served as Chief of Coordination between Shin Bet and Mossad. This position would allow him the biggest triumph in a post-Holocaust Israel: the capture of Adolf Eichmann. In a daring mission, after much intelligence research recognized Adolf Eichmann alive and well, and living in Argentina, Eitan and his team went to Argentina to kidnap and take him to Israel, where he was tried and found guilty of atrocious crimes against the Jewish people during World War II. During the process of capturing Eichmann, Eitan personally vetoed the capture of Josef Mengele, who was under Mossad surveillance, arguing that the eventual loss of focus could jeopardize the Eichmann mission.[1]
During 1964-1966, Eitan headed a two-year operation in which armaments sold and delivered by the Germans to the Egyptian government 'disappeared'. In those days, Israel had no peace treaty with Egypt.
In 1968 Eitan, listed as an Israeli Ministry of Defense chemist, visited the U.S. Nuclear Materials and Equipment Corporation (NUMEC) nuclear fuel plant, where later it is alleged 200 pounds of highly enriched uranium disappeared and was diverted to Israel in an event known as The Apollo Affair.[2]
Eitan was also involved in the secret planning and implementation of the attack on the Iraqi Osirak nuclear reactor in June 1981.

In June 1984 Eitan initialed an espionage operation against the United States where-in he recruited Naval Intelligence Analyst Jonathan Jay Pollard to steal American top secret material. The operation lasted eighteen months and was shut down after the arrest of Pollard, who is now serving life in an American federal prison.[3]
Post-intelligence career[edit]
Eitan continued his work in intelligence until 1972, when he left the organization and went on to the private sector, raising tropical fish and other agricultural ventures. But in 1978, the government of Menachem Begin, the then Prime Minister of Israel, called him back to be his advisor on terrorism, as Eitan was regarded and admired as one of the most respected experts in this field. In 1981, Eitan was named head of the Defense Ministry's Lekem, the Bureau for Scientific Relations, replacing legendary Israeli spy-master Benjamin Blumberg, where he continued work on counter-terrorism.

According to the British journalist, Gordon Thomas, Eitan then participated in a partnership between Israeli and U.S. intelligence during the early 1980s in selling to foreign intelligence agencies in excess of $500 million worth of licenses to a trojan horse version of the Washington, D.C.-based, Inslaw Inc.'s people-tracking software called Promis, in order to spy on them.[4] In 1984, Lekem was put in touch with Jonathan Pollard, an American citizen, who worked on anti-terrorist activities at the US Naval Investigative Services. Pollard had contacted the Israeli government with top secret information on the terrorist activities of Israel's enemies. Jonathan Pollard was exposed and arrested in the US in 1985. His arrest revealed the existence of Lekem to US authorities.

Also in 1985 In California, a US Aerospace Engineer, Richard Kelly Smyth, the President of a company called MILCO, was indicted for smuggling over 800 krytron to Israel without the required US State Department Munitions Export License.Because of their potential for use as triggers of nuclear weapons, the export of krytrons is tightly regulated in the United States. A number of cases involving the smuggling or attempted smuggling of krytrons have been reported, as countries seeking to develop nuclear weapons have attempted to procure supplies of krytrons for igniting their weapons. Just before trial, and facing a possible 105 years in prison, Richard Kelly Smyth and his wife suddenly disappeared. Sixteen years later they were discovered and arrested while living as fugitives in Malaga, Spain, and extradited back to the United States where he was convicted in the case. The krytrons shipped by Smyth were sent to an Israeli company called Heli-Trading Ltd. owned by prominent Israeli movie producer Arnon Milchan (the producer of Pretty Woman, JFK, LA Confidential, Once Upon a Time in America, Brazil, Fight Club, Mr. and Mrs. Smyth… and many more movies).

Before his prominent Hollywood career, Mr, Milchan had served for decades as a Lekem agent, under the direct command of Rafi Eitan's predecessor, Benjamin Blumberg. It later became clear that the company MILCO served as a Lekem front company for obtaining sensitive equipment, technologies and materials for Israeli secret defense-related programs, and in particular its nuclear program.[5]

The Israeli government asserted that the MILCO Krytron incident was a simple mistake by the "exporter" Milco, and that the Pollard operation was an unauthorized deviation from its policy of not conducting espionage in the United States, before an admission in 1998 of Israeli responsibility. In 1987 the Israeli government set up a commission to investigate Lekem's failure, which found it would be in Israel's interest to take responsibility for the Pollard case. In 1987 following the difficult Pollard and Milco cases, the Israeli government decided to disband Lekem, whose functions were assigned to the Director of Security of the Defense Establishment, adding technical and scientific intelligence to its responsibilities which include internal investigations of the defense ministry.
Following the disbandment of Lekem, Eitan was offered the position as head of the state-owned Israel Chemicals Corporation, from where he retired in 1993 at the age of 67. During his tenure, the company underwent a rapid expansion in terms of sales, development and manpower making it the largest government-held firm in the country.

——————

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimona
Dimona was one of the development towns created in the 1950s under the leadership of Israel's first Prime Minister, David Ben-Gurion. Dimona itself was conceived in 1953, and settled in 1955, mostly by new immigrants from Northern Africa, who also constructed the city's houses. The emblem of Dimona (as a local council), adopted 2 March 1961, appeared on a stamp issued on 24 March 1965.
When the Israeli nuclear program started later that decade, a location not far from the city was chosen for the Negev Nuclear Research Center due to its relative isolation in the desert and availability of housing.

—-
In spite of a gradual decrease during the 1980s, the city's population began to grow once again with the beginning of the Russian immigration in the 1990s. Currently, Dimona is the third largest city in the Negev, with the population of 33,900. Due to projected rapid population growth in the Negev, the city is expected to triple in size by 2025.[2]

"Isabella Ginor and Gideon Remez’s groundbreaking history of the Six-Day War in 1967 radically changes our understanding of that conflict, casting it as a crucial arena of Cold War intrigue that has shaped the Middle East to this day. The authors, award-winning Israeli journalists and historians, have investigated newly available documents and testimonies from the former Soviet Union, cross-checked them against Israeli and Western sources, and arrived at fresh and startling conclusions.

Contrary to previous interpretations, Ginor and Remez’s book shows that the Six-Day War was the result of a joint Soviet-Arab gambit to provoke Israel into a preemptive attack. The authors reveal how the Soviets received a secret Israeli message indicating that Israel, despite its official ambiguity, was about to acquire nuclear weapons. Determined to destroy Israel’s nuclear program before it could produce an atomic bomb, the Soviets then began preparing for war—well before Moscow accused Israel of offensive intent, the overt trigger of the crisis."

Does the United States have a similar history with any other ally [although -- there is not and cannot be a treaty of alliance between Israel and the United States because Israel has not yet named permanent borders, and the US may not ally with a state that has nuclear weapons but is not a signatory to NPT].

Does the United States have a similar history with any enemy of the United States?

“Are there links between Israel’s pursuit and acquisition of nuclear weapons; JFK’s assassination…”

This is the thesis of Final Judgment: The Missing Link, by Michael Collins Piper. He claimed that the Israeli Mossad was responsible for the assassination of JFK.

JANUARY 12, 20041967 Arab-Israeli War and USS LibertyAt a day-long conference on the 1967 Arab-Israeli War historians talked at a panel discussion titled “War, Intelligence, and the USS Liberty.” They talked about recently declassified documents on the attack on the USS Liberty and the Arab-Israeli War. Following their remarks they answered questions from the audience.

James Bamford, Author

Jay Cristol Author

David A. Hatch Technical DirectorCenter for Cryptologic Studies

Michael B. Oren Author

David Robarge HistorianCentral Intelligence Agency

David M. SatterfieldDeputy Assistant SecretaryDepartment of State->Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs

Can you please define Anti-Semitism for me because it does seem to be thrown around a lot.

Anti-Semitism : A term used by the faux conservative wing of the progressive movement to signify that the person being called the name is winning an argument. The faux liberal wing uses “racist” in the same way.

With all the comments and history here, one thing I've _never_ seen is any credible reason why Israel would attack a US spy ship. (No, I'm NOT going to play nicey nice and use the "intelligence" label).
This is the first time I've ever seen any answer - namely they Israeli's were hoping the US would believe it was an Egyptian attack - but that's so off the wall it ranks up there with OJ Simpson and the faked Mars landing.
Anyone (and I'm asking seriously) have any plausible explanation why Israel would do so? Thanks

The Liberty was a capable American intelligence-gathering ship. The Israel government did NOT want any formal intelligence gathering during that period of time and in that place. They were making a war of aggression and covering it up with the usual ‘oh,poor Israel, a few scrappy little Jews defending from unwarranted and massive Arab aggression”.

The simple fact of covering up their national markings on the attacking planes and boats is enough to show their intent and their guilt, but there is plenty of other evidence available if one goes looking.

It was a very sad day when LBJ heard our planes were on their way to kick ass and relieve the Liberty, but instead of applauding the naval force’s courage for heading out to relieve the USS Liberty, LBJ ordered those planes to turn around immediately and stand down from further action, because he was not going to “attack our ally”. Israel was not then, nor ever has been, an ally of the USA, check it out, that is a true statement.

In fact, the Jews were the aggressors from day one of the wars which brought Israel into existence. We continue to experience blowback from a time when USA, France, Britain other capitalist countries of white folks set boundaries and drew maps deciding which ‘new’ countries got to exist, and which passed into history without a blip.

Can anyone say ‘Iraq”? “Kuwait” Those are other made-up countries with boundaries drawn by white folks half a world away and counting on profiting from oil contracts and oil futures to swing their votes one way or the other.

I will not deny Israel’s right to exist, there is too much water under the bridge to try to put that cat back in the box. But they owe an apology, restitution, and full disclosure in the case of the USS Liberty, as does the US itself.

JANUARY 12, 2004
1967 Arab-Israeli War and USS Liberty
At a day-long conference on the 1967 Arab-Israeli War historians talked at a panel discussion titled “War, Intelligence, and the USS Liberty.” They talked about recently declassified documents on the attack on the USS Liberty and the Arab-Israeli War. Following their remarks they answered questions from the audience.

James Bamford, Author

Jay Cristol Author

David A. Hatch Technical Director
Center for Cryptologic Studies

Michael B. Oren Author

David Robarge Historian
Central Intelligence Agency

David M. Satterfield
Deputy Assistant Secretary
Department of State->Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs

I thing the American people were never told the truth of the Jewish takeover situation by the Jew controlled media. They never knew it was happening.

You must agree!

You are correct Art. While it’s true that the American people today are as dumb as a fence post, it’s also true that they got into that condition because a Jewish controlled MSM has provided them with a steady diet of lies and cheap entertainment since they day they were born.

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

Consider four assassination plots: Lincoln in 1865, Czar Alexander II in 1881, Hitler in 1944, and Charles Degaulle in 1962. The first two were successful, the latter two failed. What did all four have in common? The plot was uncovered after the attempt, one way or another, and the conspirators were caught.

The same thing would have happened had there been a plot to kill John F. Kennedy. The Idiot Savant Oliver Stone had much of the government involved with dozens of them in Dealey Plaza, severalfiring down from the School Book Depository, another group (in plain sight) on "the Grassy Knoll."

How many would have been caught on the spot? How many would have run to the authorities to make a deal to save their neck? Several at least.

You have to remember that when assassinations or attempted assassinations occurred against Lincoln, Czar Alexander, Hitler and DeGaulle, Jews had not yet gained total control over the government of those countries. As a result, the crimes were all solved and the guilty punished accordingly.

Opening remarks at this conference emphasize that the 1967 Arab-Israeli war “changed everything.”

Would that war have taken place if JFK had not been assassinated?

David Satterfield, Deputy Assistant Secretary, Department of State->Bureau of Near Eastern Affairs, delivered introductory remarks at this 2004 conference. For the most part, Satterfield scolded the Palestinians for their intransigence and warned them to cease violent resistance; he sympathized with Israelis who face so many terror threats.

“$180 billion in assistance to the parties since 1967 — Israel, Egypt, Jordan”

In 2005 Satterfield was named as the person who passed state secrets from State Department to AIPAC agents Steve Rosen and Keith Weissmann:

Forward Staff and JTA – August 26, 2005
WASHINGTON – After a recently promoted State Department official was linked last week to spying allegations against the pro-Israel lobby, Jewish communal leaders are again suggesting nefarious motives behind the investigation.

The New York Times reported August 18 that David Satterfield, the U.S. deputy chief of mission in Baghdad, was one of two previously unnamed government officials who allegedly gave classified information to Steve Rosen, then the director of foreign policy issues at the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, the Washington-based lobbying group. The State Department did not deny the report.

Rosen was indicted along with Keith Weissman, a former Iran analyst at Aipac, and Lawrence Franklin, an Iran specialist at the Pentagon. All three men have pleaded not guilty.

The indictment stated that “U.S. government official 2″ – identified by The Times as Satterfield – spoke with Rosen twice in 2002, when Satterfield was deputy assistant secretary of state for Near Eastern affairs. According to the indictment, he shared “classified information” with Rosen, some of which Rosen, in turn, disclosed to a foreign official.

The Times reported that before Satterfield was sent to Baghdad, officials at the State Department asked the Justice Department whether his name coming up in the Aipac investigation posed an impediment to his assignment in Iraq. They were advised that Satterfield could take the job, The Times reported.

The decision to issue indictments against the dismissed Aipac officials, while giving Satterfield a pass, is fueling the sense among Jewish communal leaders that elements in the Justice Department – driven by anti-Israeli and anti-Jewish members of America’s intelligence community – were out to clip the wings of America’s strongest foreign-policy lobbying group.

“If, in fact, Satterfield passed on classified information that other people should not have had, then they should all be guilty of the same thing,” said Malcolm Hoenlein, executive vice chairman of the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations.

Neal Sher, a former Aipac executive director and a former federal prosecutor, said it was a “very, very serious question” why a person “who leaks information is not in trouble while the person who receives it is.”

“It’s very confusing,” Sher said.

But legal experts say that there could be reasonable explanations for the decision not to indict Satterfield or to block his promotion. The indictment against Rosen, Weissman and Franklin portrays an intentional and systematic pattern of sharing information that the three allegedly knew was secret – some of it highly classified – and of sharing it with foreign nationals. It does not suggest that the American official identified by The Times engaged in any such behavior. http://www.jonathanpollard.org/2005/082605.htm

It's past time that all the lies of the past be confronted and acknowledged, so that those in leadership today can be made aware there will be consequences for telling lies to the American public today. It's the only way to reverse the slide into secret, unaccountable, even illegal government, whose decisions and policies are increasingly opaque to any public oversight at all, and which are maintained through deception.

LBJ was very complicit in the assassination of John F. Kennedy with the help of the Meyer Lansky gang. The CIA and FBI helped as well as they had long been accustomed to using organized crime. LBJ had a long history of graft and murder. Kennedy was set to not only replace him on the ticket but to let his brother prosecute him – which is why Robert Kennedy was also assassinated. There are a number of good books on the subject: JFK and the Unspeakable and The man who killed Kennedy: the case against LBJ. There was a wider conspiracy however that included bankers like the Rockefellers along with the Bush crime family and others.

Whites vastly outnumber Jews in this country. The fact that whites allow so much power to be wielded by Jews is a testament to white stupidity.

It isn’t stupidity; it’s selfishness and carelessness. Whites don’t care as long as they’ve got what they want. What does it matter to the white suburban guy with a McMansion, three cars and season tickets to the local sports team whether Jews do this or that?

Jewish issues are majorly overinflated in the intellectual sphere, but in real life they don’t matter all that much. This is one thing I see over and over in the commentary at places like Unz Review. People who write and comment here care way, way more about these “icing on the cake” issues, and not enough about the meat and potatoes.

One Jewish writer who does address these meat and potato issues is Joel Kotkin, and he’s like a voice in the wilderness among his people. Kind of odd, really, that Jews abandoned these fundamental quality of life issues, because materialism was major driving factor in Zionism and related movements that led to the founding of the Jewish state.

I think both Jews and gentiles focus on their respective interests too much to their own detriment. For gentiles, they tend to dismiss the cultural issues as unimportant when they really aren’t in the long run, whereas Jews neglect the material issues to their own personal/tribal peril, which they would not do if they had any sense of history.

But not seeing history clearly is probably a big part of what makes history keep happening. So I guess there’s no sense in crying about it, and might as well embrace it. Nothing new under the sun and all that.

"It isn’t stupidity; it’s selfishness and carelessness. Whites don’t care as long as they’ve got what they want. What does it matter to the white suburban guy with a McMansion, three cars and season tickets to the local sports team whether Jews do this or that? "

I agree many whites are selfish and careless, but they are also stupid. Only a minuscule per cent of whites live as you describe.

"Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations."

Well said - agree 100% - a pox on all of them. They are nothing but trouble makers.

In the Treaty of Westphalia rulers and nations were given sovereignty over their territory. It is based upon the concept of a sovereign state governed by a sovereign.

What do these spy agencies do but get rid of sovereigns. They are not just gathering information – they actually are destabilizing nations.

What is the motto of the Mossad – “with words we make war.” – the Mossad makes war – this is unquestionably true. That organization must be brought before the Hague.

One nation changing another nations sovereign is a war crime – end of story.

This secret sovereign changing has to end – PERIOD!

“One nation changing another nations sovereign is a war crime – end of story.”

I would only call this semi-violent change of government in a targeted country a crime against humanity, not a war crime. The US and UK have developed a fantastic new “technology” for a semi-violent, NGO-lead change of a democratically elected government a.k.a color revolution. First, we try to manipulate the elections (using media of the targeted country, financing & bribes, outright stealing of votes etc), if this proves insufficient then we give our puppets a second chance by financing a coup by paying a river of freshly printed dollars to the locals organised into NGOs.

For the sake of peace amongst doomsday armed nations, this “social technology” has to be internationally outlawed and banned. The only possible way to control this “technology” is to control the cross-border financing of NGOs. This is similar to what Russia is trying to do and the law the US already has (compulsory registration of foreign agents).

But, the main issue with “secret agencies” is that due to the information they posses and hide from others, both in the same nation and from foreign “enemies”, they are growth beds of “shadow government”, “deep state” etc, just like the one which hid the USS Liberty incident.

Personally, I can imagine the same “shadow government” hand in 911 and in the Liberty incident, only 34 years apart.

Most US citizens view CIA as a US own organization, therefore its crimes are transgressions and/or a necessary evil (someone has to do the secret and dirty work). Most people do not actually comprehend that in “peace-time”, the CIA, Mossad and virtually all other “Secret Services” of the world (including KGB/FSB, etc etc) are primarily crime syndicates and secondarily national defense organizations

I expect if Phil is circumspect on the subject, one might understand his reticence. No doubt there are many within the agency who enter the service with every good intention and I'll let it go at that.

But to your point, there is a very good investigative journalist had documented the money trail of the savings & loan collapse of the 1980s, and in this 1992 (two part) interview you'll discover names touching other threads (this might not jump out at the uniformed) in this articles commentary .. Lloyd Bentsen, John Connally, George H.W. Bush (a lynchpin in my view) where certain notable personalities from both sides of the mainstream establishment politics are inter-meshed with named names spanning 1963 Dallas (not the subject of the interviews) to present (Jeb Bush.) The common thread throughout? American mafia in partnership with the CIA looting the American savings and loans, sticking the 500 billion (1992 dollars, closer to a trillion in 2015, adjusted for inflation) to the taxpayer and CIA derailing DoJ investigations and/or prosecutions; in a way predicting or mimicking the 'too big to fail' bailouts of 2008

Part one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EoOEw-hq-o

Part two:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk_TcWx7uoM

One important thread that is NOT developed in the interviews (is not the subject of reporter Pete Brewton's investigation) is the equally incestuous overlap of the CIA with 'Corporate America' .. in any case the interview is eye-opening, particularly in relation to the CIA/Mafia marriage and related corruption of politics and law enforcement, very germane to present -

Every shadowy group needs a few honest and idealistic individuals to dilute criticism and create a PR friendly face, be it some Mafia, some NGO or some Intelligence Service. Based on his excellent writing, I could never imagine Mr Giraldi in any other role within the CIA then protecting the US national interest. I sincerely believe this. Naturally, Mr Giraldi is not the only such person of integrity that I am aware of, Ray McGovern is another and so on.

Regarding financial crimes of CIA and its collusion with the US and Global financial crime syndicates, there is little doubt about this. A common rumor is that CIA and/or MI6 made Mr George Soros a billionaire and a financier of the color revolution technology. I would volunteer for his replacement, but I probably do not have the right ethnic persuasion (damn).

It would be much more interesting to know what financial crimes the NSA is involved in. Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest.

Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest

Indeed, one could begin with this glimpse:

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency

The implications are quite profound (and put the lie to the idea we live in any system other than corporate oligarchy, my view.) Also we should find a new way to refer to the NSA, such as NSA-P, recalling what never enters the mind of most who've heard of the NSA, it is essentially an office of the Pentagon.

You have to remember that when assassinations or attempted assassinations occurred against Lincoln, Czar Alexander, Hitler and DeGaulle, Jews had not yet gained total control over the government of those countries. As a result, the crimes were all solved and the guilty punished accordingly.

Jews weren’t all that prominent in the government in 1963, much less than now FWIW.

Every shadowy group needs a few honest and idealistic individuals to dilute criticism and create a PR friendly face, be it some Mafia, some NGO or some Intelligence Service. Based on his excellent writing, I could never imagine Mr Giraldi in any other role within the CIA then protecting the US national interest. I sincerely believe this. Naturally, Mr Giraldi is not the only such person of integrity that I am aware of, Ray McGovern is another and so on.

Regarding financial crimes of CIA and its collusion with the US and Global financial crime syndicates, there is little doubt about this. A common rumor is that CIA and/or MI6 made Mr George Soros a billionaire and a financier of the color revolution technology. I would volunteer for his replacement, but I probably do not have the right ethnic persuasion (damn).

It would be much more interesting to know what financial crimes the NSA is involved in. Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest.

Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest

Indeed, one could begin with this glimpse:

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency

The implications are quite profound (and put the lie to the idea we live in any system other than corporate oligarchy, my view.) Also we should find a new way to refer to the NSA, such as NSA-P, recalling what never enters the mind of most who’ve heard of the NSA, it is essentially an office of the Pentagon.

Great link Ronald. It appears that NSA is simply a center of the largest in the World information cluster, which could easily be supra-national (at least for the five-eyes countries) and is combined state-corporate based (as you said). As long as this cluster can maintain its homogeneity, it will remain the ultimate repository of ultimate power to control.

Military may become an obsolete institution because it controls whole nations (any imperial military that is), whist an information cluster built around NSA could control the whole humanity at the level of an individual.

Perhaps this is the real globalization of the World, happening behind the scene.

Also we should find a new way to refer to the NSA, such as NSA-P, recalling what never enters the mind of most who’ve heard of the NSA, it is essentially an office of the Pentagon.

---

In Niall Fergusson's biography of the Rothschilds, he explained how the Rothschild empire was built on superior access to information about others, and control of information about its own activities.

The first settlements of European Jews in Palestine were sponsored by the Rothschilds.
It's only natural that the Israeli weltanschauung would place a very high value on information-in and information-out (see, for example, Hasbara manual, above).

So add one more character to that hyphenated designation: NSA-PI. If the NSA knows it, Israel knows it. If the Pentagon has access to it, Israel has access to it.

But individuals are not the only, or even most desirable source for information and object of US spying activities.

In 2004 Stuart Levey became the first Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence within the United States Department of the Treasury, an office Levey created after persuading then-Secretary of State Condi Rice of its usefulness. What's important to focus on is that the U S Department of Treasury has been turned into a spy agency: TFI marries the Department of Treasury's mechanisms that enforce a dollar-denominated global economy with the capabilities of USA's intelligence-gathering facilities to hoover the profoundly private information that passes between international banks and corporations.

This information is used to shut down, or punish, or fine, or arm-twist banks, brokerages and global institutions that do not do what the US -- or more specifically, the corrupted US establishment that has been in full force since LBJ allowed Israel to gain the upper hand by letting it get away with attacking the USS Liberty -- demands that it do.

TFI defines its

"twin aims of safeguarding the financial system against illicit use and combating rogue nations, terrorist facilitators, weapons of mass destruction (WMD) proliferators, money launderers, drug kingpins, and other national security threats." http://www.treasury.gov/about/organizational-structure/offices/Pages/Office-of-Terrorism-and-Financial-Intelligence.aspx

As Phil Giraldi stated above and as common sense dictates, Israel fits the definition of "rogue" state.

As even the wikipedia version of the activities of Rafael "Rafi" Eitan reveal, if that Israeli nonagenarian who now raises tropical fish on his property in Israel is not a terrorist, nobody is.

Eitan's terrorist activities, in collaboration with those of Zalman Shapiro (and Arlen Specter who provided political cover and protection from prosecution for Shapiro), Richard Kelly Smith, Arnon Milchan, were carried out in large measure in clandestine pursuit of weapons of mass destruction.

If the USA were running a legitimate government and no one that has been overtaken by another entity's operatives, the US Department of Treasury would be prosecuting and sanctioning Israel and its numerous spies and terrorists.

1967 Sinai was just 11 years from 1956 Suez. Then, the Israelis were not “the closest ally”. Its obvious that there were sufficient number of Israelis who would not have forgiven the Americans and would not have minded giving them a bloody nose. From all I have read, I have to conclude that the Israelis deceitfully sunk an American ship, and they and their minions spent the next 50 years blowing smoke.

I think it's important to put the USS Liberty Incident in proper context...

As I mentioned, the motivation behind the deliberate Israeli attack is a major historical puzzle, which we may or may not ever resolve. However, I think the attack itself is of very little present-day relevance. Nearly all the principals of both governments are long dead, and the impact upon current national security issues is nil.

However, I do think the incident is of *enormous* value in helping us to properly evaluate the reliability of our major media organs and our mainstream historians. Consider that one of the most serious peacetime attacks upon American military forces, with over 200 dead and wounded Americans, has been almost totally covered up and hidden for the last half-century by the American media and political elites. I doubt whether even 1% of Americans are even aware of it.

Furthermore, the vast quantity of totally false or distorted excuses vigorously promoted by pro-Israeli propagandists has successfully clouded the issue for the casually curious. Indeed, over the last few months I've occasionally noticed comments on this very website by agitated Jewish-activist types claiming that anyone who believed the Israeli attack was deliberate is a crazy promoter of "conspiracy theories." I'd say there's a better than 50-50 chance that the activists making those foolish claims were fully sincere in their mistaken beliefs, having probably read them from dozens of different sources.

The important lesson to draw from all of this is that anything, *absolutely* anything can be successfully covered up by our media and political elites, even for many decades, with this iron wall of historical disinformation only starting to crack in recent years due to the growing power of the Internet. And denouncing something as a "crazy conspiracy theory" because it isn't on the front page of the New York Times or in all the standard history textbooks is a very feeble argument to make...

Unz. I am surprised you don’t see the motive for the attack on the Liberty.

By attacking the Liberty in unmarked planes, the goal was to blame the attack on Egypt and bring America into the war to clean up its enemies.

Due to the bravery of the crew, there were survivors, and the false flag was thwarted. LBJ was in on it the whole time.

Are you seriously pretending that you haven't noticed that the other 5 are military servicemen on the USS Liberty on the day of the attack, IJ?

Not “the veterans of the USS Liberty” but a web site with, as far as I can tell, exactly one guy behind it, one Ernie Gallo.

Lies.

It's signed by the servicemen who were on the ship on the day. http://www.usslibertyveterans.org/files/War%20Crimes%20Report.pdf

The report makes unambiguous that the planes were UNMARKED.

Who else has any authority to speak about whether the planes were marked, except the servicemen on the USS Liberty? The other servicemen also speak to this. Here's an interview of another surivor, Tourney. His radio message, which on that day was received by that "guy" in Vietnam, as you put it:

“About half-an-hour into the attack,” he said, “one of our men stretched a long wire so that we could transmit a message to the Sixth Fleet: ‘Under Attack by Unmarked Fighters. Send Help.’ - See more at: http://americanfreepress.net/?p=2309#sthash.vP0b1qgI.dpuf

The planes were unmarked. So say the USS Liberty servicemen. Why would they say so if the planes weren't unmarked, IJ?

So you think the perpetrators of the JFK assassination got away with it and kept it all secret for over 50 years?

I could see that if the conspiracy consisted of a few mafiosos. If it was payback from Castro, people would have talked by now; they could keep quiet in Cuba but by 1970 or so key people or their family would have been in the US. And finally, anything hatched by the CIA, or Johnson or Nixon: totally utterly implausible that it could have been kept silent.

So in other words, the only plausible conspiracy is also the least interesting; what difference does it make if it was Oswald or Oswald plus a few more obscure losers?

The Times review that Ron points us to isn't as complimentary as he thinks; it sums up by saying that the book lays out a lot of interesting theories without presenting a shred of evidence for any of them!

Which, when you come to think about it, would makes a JFK-assassination-conspiracy nut an ideal recruit to Ron's stable of contributors.

Which, when you come to think about it, would make a JFK-assassination-conspiracy nut an ideal recruit to Ron’s stable of contributors.

Had a good laugh when I read this. I had mused earlier that Ron maintains this webzine, as a public service – sort of a therapeutic device for commenters to vent frustrations which left untreated, might quite possibly result in actual violence. I must now consider the further comic benefit of gathering diverse and interesting views, some of which surpass the realms of the twilight zone.

None of which is to detract from the typical quality of writing one finds here: it excels.

Apropos of the topic under discussion, I wholeheartedly support the notion that the survivours and servicemen of the Liberty ought to be honoured. Israel should also send a delegation annually, in recognition of the very same, and perhaps afford a measure of closure for an incident that remains outstanding between allies. (I know that Mr. Giraldi, whose motives I have now come to respect, does not see Israel in that light, but remain hopeful, that one day he might.)

Mentioning the Liberty is immoral. It leads to ANTI-SEMITISM!!!, which leads to 6 million dead Jews.

Forgetting the Liberty is The Right Thing To Do. Remembering the Liberty = killing 6 million Jews.

All too many fake conservatives want to bury the memory of the USS Liberty. They will go on and on about Benghazi but recoil like vampires confronted with a Cross from anything to do with the Liberty. I have had them tell me that the USS Liberty got what she deserved since she was “an armed spy ship in a war zone”.

A lot of "American" "conservatives" seem rather traitorous on the topic of Israel.

What do you mean “the Liberty incident has been milked for all it’s worth for too long?”

He means he's loyal to Jewry & Israel first, and America second. I never even heard of the Liberty until I started frequenting ANTI-SEMITIC!!! web sites.

Whites vastly outnumber Jews in this country. The fact that whites allow so much power to be wielded by Jews is a testament to white stupidity.

Let stupid = "not ANTI-SEMITIC!!!" and that's true.

And the imaginary 12 to 15 point average IQ the Ashkenazim have over average white IQ is overpowering…..evidently

FIFY.

The state of Israel – in reality, a perpetually expansionist colony – is virtually owned (80% of land) by the Rotschild clan. Check out British historian Simon Schama – himself part Jewish – on the subject.

The transfer from ownership of British Palestine to the Jewish people (and nevermind the indigenous, rightful inhabitants, the Palestinians themselves) was bogus and a con right from the start, as the British had no right under natural justice to ‘own’ Palestine in the first place.

It is additionally bogus since the same clan (who effectively control the Bank of England) financed the war, using and actively promoting the Zionist cult/false flag anti-Jewish attacks to prompt frightened/radicalized Jews to move to the violently acquired lands of Palestine.

The Liberty would likely have revealed significant evidence of mass-killings of Palestinian civilians, so undermining claims of legitimacy, much less moral authority. It had to be stopped – and was.

Netanyahu is but a stooge for the clan and it’s ambitions, along with allied wealthy clans to control the Leviathan gas field: they aim to dominate the European market from the Middle East . That was why the Ukraine as a reliable conduit for cheap Russian gas into Europe was deliberately destabilized.

The recognition of the Palestinian state – now gaining serious traction – will seriously challenge hegemony over gas-wealth in the region. Hence the ‘planting’ of takfiri (ISIL) terrorist cells in Hamas controlled territory and the launching of rocket attacks into ‘Israel’ as happened recently : such ‘threats’ must of course be ‘countered’ – and Palestine remains under siege.

The Israelis were clearly tracking Mohammad Atta and his buddies...but there is a much simpler explanation as to why 9/11 took place...and it is the only one that makes sense:9/11 happened because of the monumental stupidity of millions of Native Born White American Christians who were way more interested in VINNNY TO KEYSHAN!!!!...VINNY TO CHREBET!!!!!...ROLL TIDE!!!...CATHOLIC SAINT JOE PA PATERNO!!!!...than the fact that the Muslims were being imported into the US for no other reason than to vote the White Jock Sniffers into a violently persecuted White racial minority at POTUS election time.

9/11, with probability fucking 1 was completely avoidable:1)no passage of the 1965 Immigration Reform Act(Native Born White American Extermination Act)....2)Implementation of a National Origins Immigration Policy that completely excluded all Muslims.

9/11 was actually quite easy to pull off...it was like taking candy from a retarded child...Native Born White American Christian Adult Jock Sniffer variety..

Are you saying that Muslim immigrants being tracked and monitored by Mossad agents were responsible for installing nano-thermite and other advanced incendiaries in the three buildings that exploded and collapsed at free-fall acceleration on 9/11?

No, stupid. Oswald demanded the proceedings halt so he could change his shirt. Otherwise, Oswald would have been gone from the county jail before Ruby went down the ramp.

What was the name of the " prominent Jewish government official" who told Oswald to delay his transfer to the county jail?

The major reason for Oswald's murder By Jack Ruby was the stupid complacency of the Dallas police. They could easily have moved him at two in the morning with no one watching, but insisted on doing it in broad daylight. Just sheer stupidity.

Another example was the driver of JFK's limousine slowing down and looking back when he heard the first shot. He had been trained to hit accelerator and MOVE when that happened.

It isn't stupidity; it's selfishness and carelessness. Whites don't care as long as they've got what they want. What does it matter to the white suburban guy with a McMansion, three cars and season tickets to the local sports team whether Jews do this or that?

Jewish issues are majorly overinflated in the intellectual sphere, but in real life they don't matter all that much. This is one thing I see over and over in the commentary at places like Unz Review. People who write and comment here care way, way more about these "icing on the cake" issues, and not enough about the meat and potatoes.

One Jewish writer who does address these meat and potato issues is Joel Kotkin, and he's like a voice in the wilderness among his people. Kind of odd, really, that Jews abandoned these fundamental quality of life issues, because materialism was major driving factor in Zionism and related movements that led to the founding of the Jewish state.

I think both Jews and gentiles focus on their respective interests too much to their own detriment. For gentiles, they tend to dismiss the cultural issues as unimportant when they really aren't in the long run, whereas Jews neglect the material issues to their own personal/tribal peril, which they would not do if they had any sense of history.

But not seeing history clearly is probably a big part of what makes history keep happening. So I guess there's no sense in crying about it, and might as well embrace it. Nothing new under the sun and all that.

“It isn’t stupidity; it’s selfishness and carelessness. Whites don’t care as long as they’ve got what they want. What does it matter to the white suburban guy with a McMansion, three cars and season tickets to the local sports team whether Jews do this or that? ”

I agree many whites are selfish and careless, but they are also stupid. Only a minuscule per cent of whites live as you describe.

I agree many whites are selfish and careless, but they are also stupid. Only a minuscule per cent of whites live as you describe.

Maybe we few who think that doing verbal battle with those we perceive as destructive to US interests are not as smart as we think we are, and the hoi polloi that we label "stupid" have the right idea.

Think about it -- it's only Jews who argue on these forums.
Jews and a few non-Jews who have gotten used to being called antisemite and don't care anymore.

We spend our time studying and practicing new ways to change the world, to make people -- Jews, if you will -- see reason, for their own good don'tcha know.
Of course, those verbal bouts that arise don't solve anything, don't change any minds, don't save any lives.

In England in the late 1950s and early ’60s the word was a political taunt of considerable force . . . One had only to should “Suez” at a Conservative orator to see his features decompose with dismay. “A classic Tory education–Eton, Munich and Suez” was how one scornful writer sketched the political career of Sir Alec Douglas-Home. Like Munich, indeed, Suez had become an indelible metaphor for fiasco, dishonor and humiliation.

It is thirty years since the British, French and Israeli governments entered into the secret collusion that brought about the Suez war of October 1956. Its objective was the removal of Gamal Abdel Nasser from power in Egypt. Each of the three parties had a distinct motive. The British were determined to show an increasingly mutinous Arab world that they would not shrink from the use of force to retain control of oil fields and communications. The Israelis wanted to punish Nasser for the Palestinian fedayeen raids that sporadically troubled their provisional borders. The French wanted Nasser to pay for the “terrorist” insurgency that was then racking their Algerian colony. The public rhetoric of the three powers–that Nasser was “another Hitler,” “another Mussolini,” a “mad dog,” and so forth–sat well with their private conversations, which concerned reconquest, subversion, conspiracy and on at least one occasion, assassination.”

For one thing, Israel was on its own, except for the safety net that LBJ offered.

And Israel had nuclear weapons to give it confidence that transmogrified into rash boldness.

Which, when you come to think about it, would make a JFK-assassination-conspiracy nut an ideal recruit to Ron’s stable of contributors.

Had a good laugh when I read this. I had mused earlier that Ron maintains this webzine, as a public service - sort of a therapeutic device for commenters to vent frustrations which left untreated, might quite possibly result in actual violence. I must now consider the further comic benefit of gathering diverse and interesting views, some of which surpass the realms of the twilight zone.

None of which is to detract from the typical quality of writing one finds here: it excels.

Apropos of the topic under discussion, I wholeheartedly support the notion that the survivours and servicemen of the Liberty ought to be honoured. Israel should also send a delegation annually, in recognition of the very same, and perhaps afford a measure of closure for an incident that remains outstanding between allies. (I know that Mr. Giraldi, whose motives I have now come to respect, does not see Israel in that light, but remain hopeful, that one day he might.)

Israel should also send a delegation annually,

That is like saying Japan should send an annual delegation to a meeting of survivors of the Bataan Death March or to the USS Arizona Memorial.

between allies.

Israel is not the “ally” of the United States. Israel is a parasite on the American tax payer.

Any Israeli involved in the attack should be spending the rest of his life in Gitmo as a war criminal.

Illinois and now Indiana have ‘outlawed’ the BDS movement, though I don’t know if it involves jail-time like holocaust ‘denial’ (in truth, revision, archival excavation): here’s one of the main reasons why:

"It isn’t stupidity; it’s selfishness and carelessness. Whites don’t care as long as they’ve got what they want. What does it matter to the white suburban guy with a McMansion, three cars and season tickets to the local sports team whether Jews do this or that? "

I agree many whites are selfish and careless, but they are also stupid. Only a minuscule per cent of whites live as you describe.

I agree many whites are selfish and careless, but they are also stupid. Only a minuscule per cent of whites live as you describe.

Maybe we few who think that doing verbal battle with those we perceive as destructive to US interests are not as smart as we think we are, and the hoi polloi that we label “stupid” have the right idea.

Think about it — it’s only Jews who argue on these forums.
Jews and a few non-Jews who have gotten used to being called antisemite and don’t care anymore.

We spend our time studying and practicing new ways to change the world, to make people — Jews, if you will — see reason, for their own good don’tcha know.
Of course, those verbal bouts that arise don’t solve anything, don’t change any minds, don’t save any lives.

From the 2002 version of Hasbara Handbook: Promoting Israel on Campus. produced by World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS), "sponsored by The Education Department of the Jewish Agency for Israel, and by the Joint Distribution Committee" **

"Bandwagon

Most people, when in doubt, are happy to do what other people are doing. This is the Bandwagon effect. People are happy to be part of the crowd, and subtle manipulators can play on this desire by emphasizing the large size of their support. Although it is reasonable that people are give a chance to find out how many other supporters a speaker or movement has, often it is possible to create the impression of extensive support - through gathering all supporters in one place, or through poorly conducted polls- in an attempt to persuade people who are keen to follow the crowd.

Israel activists can commission opinion polls amongst groups who favor Israel, and use these to give the impression that Israel is the 'team to support'. Demonstrations, and even photos that give the impression of large numbers can help to create the impression that Israel is even more popular than it is."

** a new edition was being used on American campuses by about 2008. -ed

Turkey sent troops to fight along side Americans in Korea. Turkey was an ally.
South Korea sent troops to fight along side Americans in Viet Nam. South Korea was an ally.
Syria sent troops to fight along side Americans during the reign of Bush the First. Syria was an ally.

Israel sent torturers to Abu Ghraib to help make America more hated. Israel has never been an ally.

Supporters of Israel are on a slippery slope to the wrong side of history. No true Christian (lapsed or not) can support apartheid Israel. Gaza is a 1,000,000 person prison. Israel murdered 2,300 Palestinians last year - how can you support that?

p.s. "Anti-Semite" is another manufactured Jew lie - Arabs are Semites. Stop being a sucker.

Israel isn’t an “apartheid” state. Never has been.

There is no such thing as a “Palestinian”. Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

How do you find the time to comment here? Aren’t there some Protocols that you are busy publishing?

There is no such thing as a “Palestinian”. Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Just like there was no such thing as a “German Jew”. Never has been. There were just Poles, Russians and Austrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Germany. They made a chaotic and subversive political and social climate of all the positions they had, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Israeli Arabs have full voting rights, send members to the Knesset, serve in the IDF at will, speak fluent Hebrew, and most interestingly, when asked if they would take Palestinian citizenship on formation of such a state or rather stay in Israel, they overwhelmingly choose Israel. In those areas where Palestinians (as opposed to Israeli Arabs) commute, Israelis are naturally careful with everyone utilising public transportation for reasons that ought to be obvious: you really rather not ride in a bus where someone is looking to make a swift transit for the 70 virgins!

Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Feb. 8-11, 2015, with a random sample of 837 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. For results based on the total sample of national adults, the margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points at the 95% confidence level.

Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 50% cellphone respondents and 50% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Landline and cellular telephone numbers are selected using random-digit-dial methods.

Are you saying that their statistical sampling methods are flawed? This applies to S2C's reply as well. Do remember that this is Gallup, and they have been doing this for some time now. If you question the veracity of this poll, you are notice that henceforth you cannot use any Gallup poll, indeed any poll at all. Gallup's methods are considered the golden yardstick.

From the 2002 version of Hasbara Handbook: Promoting Israel on Campus.
produced by World Union of Jewish Students (WUJS), “sponsored by The Education Department of the Jewish Agency for Israel, and by the Joint Distribution Committee” **

“Bandwagon

Most people, when in doubt, are happy to do what other people are doing. This is the Bandwagon effect. People are happy to be part of the crowd, and subtle manipulators can play on this desire by emphasizing the large size of their support. Although it is reasonable that people are give a chance to find out how many other supporters a speaker or movement has, often it is possible to create the impression of extensive support – through gathering all supporters in one place, or through poorly conducted polls- in an attempt to persuade people who are keen to follow the crowd.

Israel activists can commission opinion polls amongst groups who favor Israel, and use these to give the impression that Israel is the ‘team to support’. Demonstrations, and even photos that give the impression of large numbers can help to create the impression that Israel is even more popular than it is.”

** a new edition was being used on American campuses by about 2008. -ed

As the events of recent years have proven, America is a fair-weather ally. Does the President like you & your country? Expect support when the chips are down (and you better pony up that $10mil when Gulf War 1 is over). Is the President a Kenyan con-man with a cloud of ganja smoke wafting about his head? You are on your own, pal.

Maybe some people can look at this long-documented trend of American Support fickleness and pretend it doesn’t exist. I am not one of those people.

I don’t blame Israel for trying to secure their own future. I do blame them when they break American law and work against American interests. Pollard belongs in jail, for example. And some of the things Israel did to secure the release of Russian jews are unacceptable behavior for an ally.

But to blame all of Israel for the actions of one arrogant, nationalistic Israeli military official (who ordered the attack on the Liberty) seems excessive. Based on the transcripts of the pilots attacking the Liberty, they were troubled by their orders. Did they trust that their commander knew more than they did when they were re-ordered to attack? How many American pilots who served in VietNam would be just as culpable?

If you don’t like the actions that Israel is taking, document them using unbiased sources and get the word out. Start the conversation. But don’t rant and rave about conspiracies. You just sound stupid and paranoid.

Our national past is dotted with tragic, deceptive false flag attacks and sacrifice of American servicemen, but the attack against the USS Liberty is one that stands in stark contrast in so many ways. I know it has been talked about many times, but a full blown movie about this story could have sweeping impact in our public perception of Israel.

When I read Phillip’s words, “It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a US Naval vessel in peace time,” it drove home my firm conviction that it isn’t too late to grab this new generation and really put the story in front of them. I thank all of you who keep this candle burning.

I know it has been talked about many times, but a full blown movie about this story could have sweeping impact in our public perception of Israel.

@ Carroll Price

If Hollywood produced it the Israeli pilots would be portrayed as hapless victims rather than cold-blooded killers.

Unfortunately for Tim King, Carroll Price is correct.

The book upon which the movie would be based has already been written -- by Michael Oren. (Oren begins around 1:50. )

Early in his remarks, Oren disclosed that he too was a victim of friendly fire in which 20 Israeli paratroopers were killed by Israelis jet fighters.
According to Oren, two helicopters were sent to rescue survivors but they found none.

Because the US system was "over-complicated," the Liberty did not receive the message to move from its position "12. 5 miles out, just barely in international waters but clearly in the war zone," to a location 100 miles out.

Oren recites that "at 5:55 am an Israeli plane reported what it thought to be a US supply ship and reported its hull designation; it was later identified as the USS Liberty. It was so marked on the Israeli war board at Israeli naval headquarters.

When a different officer took charge of the war board,

"seeing that the location of the Liberty was two hours hold, its marker was removed from the war board -- standard operating procedure for the Israeli navy: "They felt it better to have no information about a ship because ships don't stay in place, they move, rather than have inaccurate information. The basic fact is, as far as the State of Israel is concerned, the USS Liberty no longer existed."

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

How do you find the time to comment here? Aren't there some Protocols that you are busy publishing?

There is no such thing as a “Palestinian”. Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Just like there was no such thing as a “German Jew”. Never has been. There were just Poles, Russians and Austrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Germany. They made a chaotic and subversive political and social climate of all the positions they had, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Feb. 8-11, 2015, with a random sample of 837 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. For results based on the total sample of national adults, the margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points at the 95% confidence level.

Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 50% cellphone respondents and 50% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Landline and cellular telephone numbers are selected using random-digit-dial methods.

Are you saying that their statistical sampling methods are flawed? This applies to S2C’s reply as well. Do remember that this is Gallup, and they have been doing this for some time now. If you question the veracity of this poll, you are notice that henceforth you cannot use any Gallup poll, indeed any poll at all. Gallup’s methods are considered the golden yardstick.

It's not outside the realm of the possible that Gallup can be hired to conduct a poll that will produce the kind of results the principal wishes to see. Not to impugn Gallup at all, just suggesting as a possibility.

But the larger factor is how the American people have been conditioned, for years and years and through multiple media, including Hollywood, public school education, "news" outlets, American churches and, especially so-called religious television and radio, and even C Span is a major agent for pro-Israel pro-Jewish conditioning. Any information critical of Israel or of Jewish organizations in USA are controlled extremely carefully: only so much negative information, for example about AIPAC, is permitted to filter to the masses so that those who control the information can point to "transparency" and "openness." But it is a sham.

Thus, polling becomes more in the nature of checking the effectiveness of the propaganda or conditioning program. Polling results inform the propaganda agents which parts of the country, or what aspect of the knowledge set, needs to be tweaked.

In other words, polls are meaningless, however "golden" the poll-taker.

Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Feb. 8-11, 2015, with a random sample of 837 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. For results based on the total sample of national adults, the margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points at the 95% confidence level.

Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 50% cellphone respondents and 50% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Landline and cellular telephone numbers are selected using random-digit-dial methods.

Are you then questioning the statistical sampling methods of Gallup? You must know that they have been doing this for a few years now?

Oh wait, Mossad was preinformed on the hundreds Gallup polled in all 50 states and blackmailed all 837 individuals from Alaska to Atlanta. Naturally!

"Are you then questioning the statistical sampling methods of Gallup?"

Not at all. I'm merely pointing out that most Americans are procuring their information from the MSM, which is skewing reality toward the "dominant narrative." That's why the polling results are what they are. If, however, you were to poll those who rely on the Internet for getting their news, the results would be completely different.

The two best books on these subjects (JFK assassination and USS Liberty attack) plus the RFK, MLK assassinations and multiple murders ordered by Johnson are:

1) LBJ: The Mastermind of the JFK Assassination, and
2) LBJ: From Mastermind to The Colossus

All of it is finally put into the perspective that has been missing all along: Lyndon Johnson was a demented, amoral and murderous person throughout his life who would stop at nothing to advance his career and finances. When you understand that, everything else falls into place like a gigantic jig-saw puzzle.

There is no such thing as a “Palestinian”. Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Just like there was no such thing as a “German Jew”. Never has been. There were just Poles, Russians and Austrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Germany. They made a chaotic and subversive political and social climate of all the positions they had, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

They made a chaotic and subversive political and social climate of all the positions they had, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

You have a double-average + 4 IQ and all, surely you noticed the parody.

But the parallel was imperfect, therefore it is not possible to post a smart-aleck response to "Where? Germany" such as, "Same as the Palestinians."

Because the situation of Jews in Germany, particularly immigrant or refugee Russian and Polish Jews who flooded Germany in the years post-1917, was quite different from the situation of the Palestinians in Palestine (there's a clue in that phrasing).

Russian and Polish Jews were NOT in their native land, they were in cities and towns of the German people. To the extent that Russian- and Polish- Jews who entered Germany sowed revolution and turmoil, or overwhelmed institutions and displaced native Germans to the detriment of German interests, the German government assisted them in leaving.

It is also important to recognize several more facts:

1. Louis Brandeis, an ardent zionist, directed that Jews should leave Germany whether they wished to do so or not. That directive was issued by Feb. 14, 1933, well before such rules were made by the NSDAP.

2. Zionist agents were active in many parts of Europe and especially in Germany, assisting German Jews, many of them reluctantly, to leave Germany and break the British blockade to enter Palestine. The zionist vision was for all diaspora Jews to go up to Palestine; Vladimir Jabotinsky articulated that part of the zionist agenda very clearly in a 1935 speech in Vienna.

Most histories omit those crucial facts. There's a 99% certainty that the Americans polled by Gallup have never heard those facts, but they are recorded in the diaries and letters of the Jewish leaders who created zionism and implemented its policies.

At the time, they were apparently prominent enough to arrange for the assassination of Lee Harvey Oswald by a Jew called Jack (Ruby) Rubenstein.

No, stupid. Oswald demanded the proceedings halt so he could change his shirt. Otherwise, Oswald would have been gone from the county jail before Ruby went down the ramp.

What was the name of the ” prominent Jewish government official” who told Oswald to delay his transfer to the county jail?

The major reason for Oswald’s murder By Jack Ruby was the stupid complacency of the Dallas police. They could easily have moved him at two in the morning with no one watching, but insisted on doing it in broad daylight. Just sheer stupidity.

Another example was the driver of JFK’s limousine slowing down and looking back when he heard the first shot. He had been trained to hit accelerator and MOVE when that happened.

Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Feb. 8-11, 2015, with a random sample of 837 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. For results based on the total sample of national adults, the margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points at the 95% confidence level.

Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 50% cellphone respondents and 50% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Landline and cellular telephone numbers are selected using random-digit-dial methods.

Are you saying that their statistical sampling methods are flawed? This applies to S2C's reply as well. Do remember that this is Gallup, and they have been doing this for some time now. If you question the veracity of this poll, you are notice that henceforth you cannot use any Gallup poll, indeed any poll at all. Gallup's methods are considered the golden yardstick.

Gallup may conduct accurate polls; maybe, maybe not.

It’s not outside the realm of the possible that Gallup can be hired to conduct a poll that will produce the kind of results the principal wishes to see. Not to impugn Gallup at all, just suggesting as a possibility.

But the larger factor is how the American people have been conditioned, for years and years and through multiple media, including Hollywood, public school education, “news” outlets, American churches and, especially so-called religious television and radio, and even C Span is a major agent for pro-Israel pro-Jewish conditioning. Any information critical of Israel or of Jewish organizations in USA are controlled extremely carefully: only so much negative information, for example about AIPAC, is permitted to filter to the masses so that those who control the information can point to “transparency” and “openness.” But it is a sham.

Thus, polling becomes more in the nature of checking the effectiveness of the propaganda or conditioning program. Polling results inform the propaganda agents which parts of the country, or what aspect of the knowledge set, needs to be tweaked.

In other words, polls are meaningless, however “golden” the poll-taker.

They made a chaotic and subversive political and social climate of all the positions they had, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Where? In Germany?

You have a double-average + 4 IQ and all, surely you noticed the parody.

But the parallel was imperfect, therefore it is not possible to post a smart-aleck response to “Where? Germany” such as, “Same as the Palestinians.”

Because the situation of Jews in Germany, particularly immigrant or refugee Russian and Polish Jews who flooded Germany in the years post-1917, was quite different from the situation of the Palestinians in Palestine (there’s a clue in that phrasing).

Russian and Polish Jews were NOT in their native land, they were in cities and towns of the German people. To the extent that Russian- and Polish- Jews who entered Germany sowed revolution and turmoil, or overwhelmed institutions and displaced native Germans to the detriment of German interests, the German government assisted them in leaving.

It is also important to recognize several more facts:

1. Louis Brandeis, an ardent zionist, directed that Jews should leave Germany whether they wished to do so or not. That directive was issued by Feb. 14, 1933, well before such rules were made by the NSDAP.

2. Zionist agents were active in many parts of Europe and especially in Germany, assisting German Jews, many of them reluctantly, to leave Germany and break the British blockade to enter Palestine. The zionist vision was for all diaspora Jews to go up to Palestine; Vladimir Jabotinsky articulated that part of the zionist agenda very clearly in a 1935 speech in Vienna.

Most histories omit those crucial facts. There’s a 99% certainty that the Americans polled by Gallup have never heard those facts, but they are recorded in the diaries and letters of the Jewish leaders who created zionism and implemented its policies.

Results for this Gallup poll are based on telephone interviews conducted Feb. 8-11, 2015, with a random sample of 837 adults, aged 18 and older, living in all 50 U.S. states and the District of Columbia. For results based on the total sample of national adults, the margin of sampling error is ±4 percentage points at the 95% confidence level.

Each sample of national adults includes a minimum quota of 50% cellphone respondents and 50% landline respondents, with additional minimum quotas by time zone within region. Landline and cellular telephone numbers are selected using random-digit-dial methods.

Are you then questioning the statistical sampling methods of Gallup? You must know that they have been doing this for a few years now?

Oh wait, Mossad was preinformed on the hundreds Gallup polled in all 50 states and blackmailed all 837 individuals from Alaska to Atlanta. Naturally!

“Are you then questioning the statistical sampling methods of Gallup?”

Not at all. I’m merely pointing out that most Americans are procuring their information from the MSM, which is skewing reality toward the “dominant narrative.” That’s why the polling results are what they are. If, however, you were to poll those who rely on the Internet for getting their news, the results would be completely different.

“About half-an-hour into the attack,” he said, “one of our men stretched a long wire so that we could transmit a message to the Sixth Fleet: ‘Under Attack by Unmarked Fighters. Send Help.’ – See more at: http://americanfreepress.net/?p=2309#sthash.vP0b1qgI.dpuf

There's a man above named "International Jew" who says that it's not true that the Israeli planes were UNMARKED, and that we should take the word of unnamed Israeli govt. officials over named survivors of the USS Liberty, who are lying about it. Yet he would like to "perhaps afford a measure of closure for an incident that remains outstanding between allies".

There’s a man above named “International Jew” who says that it’s not true that the Israeli planes were UNMARKED, and that we should take the word of unnamed Israeli govt. officials over named survivors of the USS Liberty, who are lying about it. Yet he would like to “perhaps afford a measure of closure for an incident that remains outstanding between allies”.

Turkey sent troops to fight along side Americans in Korea. Turkey was an ally.
South Korea sent troops to fight along side Americans in Viet Nam. South Korea was an ally.
Syria sent troops to fight along side Americans during the reign of Bush the First. Syria was an ally.

Israel sent torturers to Abu Ghraib to help make America more hated. Israel has never been an ally.

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can't be sure, but I think Adelson's got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans (and btw please don't invoke the "enormous $3b paid etc. etc". The typical Israeli has not a clue about it, and in any case that money is spent buying American products for the most part.....). There are some things you need to realise about overt Israeli participation in U.S. missions: it would tend not to sit too well with the Arabs. However Israel does more than you realise or care to admit). Point is, don't send them to Coventry before you know them!

Our national past is dotted with tragic, deceptive false flag attacks and sacrifice of American servicemen, but the attack against the USS Liberty is one that stands in stark contrast in so many ways. I know it has been talked about many times, but a full blown movie about this story could have sweeping impact in our public perception of Israel.

When I read Phillip's words, "It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a US Naval vessel in peace time," it drove home my firm conviction that it isn't too late to grab this new generation and really put the story in front of them. I thank all of you who keep this candle burning.

Not if Hollywood produced the movie. If Hollywood produced it the Israeli pilots would be portrayed as hapless victims rather than cold-blooded killers.

No, stupid. Oswald demanded the proceedings halt so he could change his shirt. Otherwise, Oswald would have been gone from the county jail before Ruby went down the ramp.

What was the name of the " prominent Jewish government official" who told Oswald to delay his transfer to the county jail?

The major reason for Oswald's murder By Jack Ruby was the stupid complacency of the Dallas police. They could easily have moved him at two in the morning with no one watching, but insisted on doing it in broad daylight. Just sheer stupidity.

Another example was the driver of JFK's limousine slowing down and looking back when he heard the first shot. He had been trained to hit accelerator and MOVE when that happened.

Do you suppose Tribe money may have been used to bribe the Dallas Police chief into allowing Jack Rubenstein to come into the room and kill Oswald before he had a chance to do any more talking?

Turkey sent troops to fight along side Americans in Korea. Turkey was an ally.
South Korea sent troops to fight along side Americans in Viet Nam. South Korea was an ally.
Syria sent troops to fight along side Americans during the reign of Bush the First. Syria was an ally.

Israel sent torturers to Abu Ghraib to help make America more hated. Israel has never been an ally.

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans (and btw please don’t invoke the “enormous $3b paid etc. etc”. The typical Israeli has not a clue about it, and in any case that money is spent buying American products for the most part…..). There are some things you need to realise about overt Israeli participation in U.S. missions: it would tend not to sit too well with the Arabs. However Israel does more than you realise or care to admit). Point is, don’t send them to Coventry before you know them!

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so.

Rabbi Yechial Eckstein and Yael Eckstein run an organization that persuades American Christians to travel to Israel but more importantly to send their money to Israel to support impoverished Jews in Israel, including holocaust survivors. http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/about

Readers of this blog will be aware that "survivors" of an alleged holocaust in Germany have been and continue to be paid reparations up the wazoo.

First, a "survivor" is defined as any Jew who lived in any place where war broke out in WWII. A Jew who spent the war in the lap of luxury in France or Italy, sublimely unimpacted by the war that Jewish leaders provoked, is a "holocaust survivor" entitled to reparations.

Rabbi Eckstein has set up a neat scam: while Edgar Bronfman and others bilk the German people out of billions, Jewish managers of the funds siphon them off for their own use, and Eckstein plucks the sympathetic strings of brain-dead Christians to make welfare payments to Jewish people in Israel that Israel's government neglects in preference for creating the world's eleventh-largest military in the world.

@ Shama:

You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans

You'll get a decidedly different impression if you read the Jewish press from Israel or the United States.
I've been reading the Jewish Daily Forward (US), and from Israel, Haaretz, YNet, and Times of Israel and others for nearly a decade and have compiled a fat file of truly vicious comments about Americans and their leaders. The last thing in the world I would want to do is to encounter face-to-face the people who write that vile stuff. As was reinforced on a trip to Iran, "what you think is what you say and what you say is what you do." (The "trinity" of Zoroastrianism, the religious core of Iran, is "Good thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds".)

http://www.avigailabarbanel.me.uk/gaza-2009-01-04.html
"Israel’s social problems have grown exponentially over the past 15 years. It’s a very different Israel now than the one I grew up in. There is more violent and organised crime than ever before, and more domestic violence and abuse of children than ever. There are more drugs and drug use, and they have drink-driving, something I have never encountered while I was still living there. This is reflected in official reports as well as in the daily newspapers. My brother who lives in Israel described to me how soldiers who spend their military service in the Occupied Palestinian territories implementing Israel’s brutal occupation, come home on weekends only to get involved in drunken armed brawls and murders. This was unheard of in my time.

Israelis have never been particularly kind to each other. It’s one of the reasons I left actually. In my late twenties I started to grow weary of the unkind, harsh and unforgiving atmosphere around me. It was a tough place to live in not because of our ‘enemies’ but because of how people treated one another. You would believe that we were all enemies rather than people who have some kind of a shared heritage. "

Finally, an invitation to visit Israel is a lot like being invited to go for a joyride in a stolen car.

In the US, you don’t get elected to any office in the US government without Israel’s blessing.
In Europe, you don’t get elected to any office in the National or EU government without US blessing.
In the small satellites of the Western countries, you don’t get elected to any office in the government without EU+US blessing.

Therefore, it is really a packing order with Israel as top dick and US as the enforcer.

1967 Sinai was just 11 years from 1956 Suez. Then, the Israelis were not "the closest ally". Its obvious that there were sufficient number of Israelis who would not have forgiven the Americans and would not have minded giving them a bloody nose. From all I have read, I have to conclude that the Israelis deceitfully sunk an American ship, and they and their minions spent the next 50 years blowing smoke.

I have to conclude that the Israelis deceitfully sunk an American ship

Our national past is dotted with tragic, deceptive false flag attacks and sacrifice of American servicemen, but the attack against the USS Liberty is one that stands in stark contrast in so many ways. I know it has been talked about many times, but a full blown movie about this story could have sweeping impact in our public perception of Israel.

When I read Phillip's words, "It was in truth the worst attack ever carried out on a US Naval vessel in peace time," it drove home my firm conviction that it isn't too late to grab this new generation and really put the story in front of them. I thank all of you who keep this candle burning.

I know it has been talked about many times, but a full blown movie about this story could have sweeping impact in our public perception of Israel.

@ Carroll Price

If Hollywood produced it the Israeli pilots would be portrayed as hapless victims rather than cold-blooded killers.

Unfortunately for Tim King, Carroll Price is correct.

The book upon which the movie would be based has already been written — by Michael Oren. (Oren begins around 1:50. )

Early in his remarks, Oren disclosed that he too was a victim of friendly fire in which 20 Israeli paratroopers were killed by Israelis jet fighters.
According to Oren, two helicopters were sent to rescue survivors but they found none.

Because the US system was “over-complicated,” the Liberty did not receive the message to move from its position “12. 5 miles out, just barely in international waters but clearly in the war zone,” to a location 100 miles out.

Oren recites that “at 5:55 am an Israeli plane reported what it thought to be a US supply ship and reported its hull designation; it was later identified as the USS Liberty. It was so marked on the Israeli war board at Israeli naval headquarters.

When a different officer took charge of the war board,

“seeing that the location of the Liberty was two hours hold, its marker was removed from the war board — standard operating procedure for the Israeli navy: “They felt it better to have no information about a ship because ships don’t stay in place, they move, rather than have inaccurate information. The basic fact is, as far as the State of Israel is concerned, the USS Liberty no longer existed.”

There is no such thing as a "Palestinian". Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

How do you find the time to comment here? Aren't there some Protocols that you are busy publishing?

Israel isn’t an “apartheid” state. Never has been.

Thank you.

Israeli Arabs have full voting rights, send members to the Knesset, serve in the IDF at will, speak fluent Hebrew, and most interestingly, when asked if they would take Palestinian citizenship on formation of such a state or rather stay in Israel, they overwhelmingly choose Israel. In those areas where Palestinians (as opposed to Israeli Arabs) commute, Israelis are naturally careful with everyone utilising public transportation for reasons that ought to be obvious: you really rather not ride in a bus where someone is looking to make a swift transit for the 70 virgins!

Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest

Indeed, one could begin with this glimpse:

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency

The implications are quite profound (and put the lie to the idea we live in any system other than corporate oligarchy, my view.) Also we should find a new way to refer to the NSA, such as NSA-P, recalling what never enters the mind of most who've heard of the NSA, it is essentially an office of the Pentagon.

Great link Ronald. It appears that NSA is simply a center of the largest in the World information cluster, which could easily be supra-national (at least for the five-eyes countries) and is combined state-corporate based (as you said). As long as this cluster can maintain its homogeneity, it will remain the ultimate repository of ultimate power to control.

Military may become an obsolete institution because it controls whole nations (any imperial military that is), whist an information cluster built around NSA could control the whole humanity at the level of an individual.

Perhaps this is the real globalization of the World, happening behind the scene.

Israeli Arabs have full voting rights, send members to the Knesset, serve in the IDF at will, speak fluent Hebrew, and most interestingly, when asked if they would take Palestinian citizenship on formation of such a state or rather stay in Israel, they overwhelmingly choose Israel. In those areas where Palestinians (as opposed to Israeli Arabs) commute, Israelis are naturally careful with everyone utilising public transportation for reasons that ought to be obvious: you really rather not ride in a bus where someone is looking to make a swift transit for the 70 virgins!

Wait, I need to continue, you seem to think that your information is the dog's bollocks, but to borrow an Americanism, "It ain't so pal!". What I said earlier is the unadulterated truth, so let me expand.

Israeli Arabs do vote and send members to the Knesset. The Arab List is one of the most vocal segments of member body in the Knesset and acts as the cornerstone to fight for arab welfare. I never said that they are living blissfully. Obviously many of them are less than supportive of the Jewish state, yet when faced with making a choice to move to a prospective Palestinian State or remain in Israel, to the man (ok maybe not exactly), choose the latter. Are you surprised? For example, I will speculate without evidence here, that if Blacks in the U.S. were given a choice to carve out a country of their own, say in Mississippi, you'd be hard pressed to find a roomful of takers!

When it comes to the Druze and the Bedouim, the story is starkly different. Especially the Druze. Almost all Druze men join the IDF (many of them rise to the top positions, I personally know about 10), are deeply loyal to Israel, and say quite openly, what should be obvious to all : that Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

The Palestinian arabs (mostly Egyptians, some Jordanians, Syrians and assorted others) are a pawn in the game for the Palestinian aristocracy (I am sure you know some family names that have actually been ensconced in Jerusalem for millennia) who have thrown away the scabbard, since lacking the knowledge of statecraft and its potential disadvantage for them, were the state to actually emerge as a reality, play a skillful game of billiards. The Palestinian refugees are used by other Arab states, again as pawns, to display as so much Lenten fare for the benefit, or rather the violent outrage, of their own populace.

If the Palestinians were smart (or their leadership sincere), they would have adopted the attitude of the Druze.

"You don’t get elected to any office in the US government with out Israel’s blessing. "

And whites let it happen.

We could extend Mr Tourney’s and your point further.

In the US, you don’t get elected to any office in the US government without Israel’s blessing.
In Europe, you don’t get elected to any office in the National or EU government without US blessing.
In the small satellites of the Western countries, you don’t get elected to any office in the government without EU+US blessing.

Therefore, it is really a packing order with Israel as top dick and US as the enforcer.

Mr. 204. Isn't your position essentially the same as those who were arguing that the plantation slaves have it so good it made little sense to oppose slavery. Why don't you describe how good the Palestinians in the occupied territories have it? Might it be because they are as well off as the slaves in the cotton fields?

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can't be sure, but I think Adelson's got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans (and btw please don't invoke the "enormous $3b paid etc. etc". The typical Israeli has not a clue about it, and in any case that money is spent buying American products for the most part.....). There are some things you need to realise about overt Israeli participation in U.S. missions: it would tend not to sit too well with the Arabs. However Israel does more than you realise or care to admit). Point is, don't send them to Coventry before you know them!

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can't be sure, but I think Adelson's got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans (and btw please don't invoke the "enormous $3b paid etc. etc". The typical Israeli has not a clue about it, and in any case that money is spent buying American products for the most part.....). There are some things you need to realise about overt Israeli participation in U.S. missions: it would tend not to sit too well with the Arabs. However Israel does more than you realise or care to admit). Point is, don't send them to Coventry before you know them!

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so.

Rabbi Yechial Eckstein and Yael Eckstein run an organization that persuades American Christians to travel to Israel but more importantly to send their money to Israel to support impoverished Jews in Israel, including holocaust survivors. http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/about

Readers of this blog will be aware that “survivors” of an alleged holocaust in Germany have been and continue to be paid reparations up the wazoo.

First, a “survivor” is defined as any Jew who lived in any place where war broke out in WWII. A Jew who spent the war in the lap of luxury in France or Italy, sublimely unimpacted by the war that Jewish leaders provoked, is a “holocaust survivor” entitled to reparations.

Rabbi Eckstein has set up a neat scam: while Edgar Bronfman and others bilk the German people out of billions, Jewish managers of the funds siphon them off for their own use, and Eckstein plucks the sympathetic strings of brain-dead Christians to make welfare payments to Jewish people in Israel that Israel’s government neglects in preference for creating the world’s eleventh-largest military in the world.

@ Shama:

You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans

You’ll get a decidedly different impression if you read the Jewish press from Israel or the United States.
I’ve been reading the Jewish Daily Forward (US), and from Israel, Haaretz, YNet, and Times of Israel and others for nearly a decade and have compiled a fat file of truly vicious comments about Americans and their leaders. The last thing in the world I would want to do is to encounter face-to-face the people who write that vile stuff. As was reinforced on a trip to Iran, “what you think is what you say and what you say is what you do.” (The “trinity” of Zoroastrianism, the religious core of Iran, is “Good thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds”.)

http://www.avigailabarbanel.me.uk/gaza-2009-01-04.html
“Israel’s social problems have grown exponentially over the past 15 years. It’s a very different Israel now than the one I grew up in. There is more violent and organised crime than ever before, and more domestic violence and abuse of children than ever. There are more drugs and drug use, and they have drink-driving, something I have never encountered while I was still living there. This is reflected in official reports as well as in the daily newspapers. My brother who lives in Israel described to me how soldiers who spend their military service in the Occupied Palestinian territories implementing Israel’s brutal occupation, come home on weekends only to get involved in drunken armed brawls and murders. This was unheard of in my time.

Israelis have never been particularly kind to each other. It’s one of the reasons I left actually. In my late twenties I started to grow weary of the unkind, harsh and unforgiving atmosphere around me. It was a tough place to live in not because of our ‘enemies’ but because of how people treated one another. You would believe that we were all enemies rather than people who have some kind of a shared heritage. “

Finally, an invitation to visit Israel is a lot like being invited to go for a joyride in a stolen car.

(The “trinity” of Zoroastrianism, the religious core of Iran, is “Good thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds”.)

That's really and truly bollock's! Islamisation has made Zoroastrianism a fringe culture in Iran. I don't think there are any more than 20k zoroastrians in Iran these days, most having fled to India back in the days when muslim arabs were galloping in to perform the ritual slaughter!

You’ll get a decidedly different impression if you read the Jewish press from Israel or the United States.
I’ve been reading the Jewish Daily Forward (US), and from Israel, Haaretz, YNet, and Times of Israel and others for nearly a decade and have compiled a fat file of truly vicious comments about Americans and their leaders. The last thing in the world I would want to do is to encounter face-to-face...

Jews around the world, to put the boot on the other foot, needn't "compile" a decades worth of reading, just a few casual glances at your own ruminations in the Review, would ineluctably conclude the second coming of the Fuhrer in the U.S!. But being curious creatures, they would still choose discover for themselves in actual experience.

On the matter of Israeli security. Yes they are suspicious of people who travel frequently to Iran, and your case would likely administer a proctology exam, in addition to the routine, not realising however, that it acts as source of pleasure for the recipient.

"Israeli Arabs have full voting rights, send members to the Knesset, serve in the IDF at will, speak fluent Hebrew..."

Do you really think you are fooling anyone (even the dumb goy!) that the Arabs have it so good in Israel, there's no need to bring an end to one of the world's few remaining ethnocracies?

Seems to me you are intent on squandering what little credibility you have left!

Wait, I need to continue, you seem to think that your information is the dog’s bollocks, but to borrow an Americanism, “It ain’t so pal!”. What I said earlier is the unadulterated truth, so let me expand.

Israeli Arabs do vote and send members to the Knesset. The Arab List is one of the most vocal segments of member body in the Knesset and acts as the cornerstone to fight for arab welfare. I never said that they are living blissfully. Obviously many of them are less than supportive of the Jewish state, yet when faced with making a choice to move to a prospective Palestinian State or remain in Israel, to the man (ok maybe not exactly), choose the latter. Are you surprised? For example, I will speculate without evidence here, that if Blacks in the U.S. were given a choice to carve out a country of their own, say in Mississippi, you’d be hard pressed to find a roomful of takers!

When it comes to the Druze and the Bedouim, the story is starkly different. Especially the Druze. Almost all Druze men join the IDF (many of them rise to the top positions, I personally know about 10), are deeply loyal to Israel, and say quite openly, what should be obvious to all : that Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

The Palestinian arabs (mostly Egyptians, some Jordanians, Syrians and assorted others) are a pawn in the game for the Palestinian aristocracy (I am sure you know some family names that have actually been ensconced in Jerusalem for millennia) who have thrown away the scabbard, since lacking the knowledge of statecraft and its potential disadvantage for them, were the state to actually emerge as a reality, play a skillful game of billiards. The Palestinian refugees are used by other Arab states, again as pawns, to display as so much Lenten fare for the benefit, or rather the violent outrage, of their own populace.

If the Palestinians were smart (or their leadership sincere), they would have adopted the attitude of the Druze.

"If the Palestinians were smart (or their leadership sincere), they would have adopted the attitude of the Druze."

Are you seriously suggesting the Palestinians Arabs (who are not native Palestinians, according to you, but "mostly Egyptians, some Jordanians, Syrians and assorted others") should be more like the Druz by being "deeply loyal to Israel"?

When it comes to the Druze and the Bedouim **, the story is starkly different. Especially the Druze. Almost all Druze men join the IDF (many of them rise to the top positions, I personally know about 10), are deeply loyal to Israel, and say quite openly, what should be obvious to all : that Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

Israel has a unique, historic commitment to its Druze citizens and so the dangers besetting more than half a million of their Syrian brethren on Jabal Druze, 88 km from its border, and 38 km from Jordan, confronts the Netanyahu government with a grave dilemma. Israeli Druze leaders are pressing the government to provide Jabal Druze towns and villages with weapons for their defense against the enemies closing in on them: The Syrian-Hizballah army; the Syrian opposition coalition including the Nusra Front – now in control of large parts of southern Syria; and the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant - ISIS . . .

DEBKAfile’s military sources note that this dilemma is the hardest Israel has faced since the Syrian conflict began more than four years ago. Sending arms to the Syrian Druze would mean abandoning the consistent policy of abstaining from direct involvement in that war.[Israeli support for al Nusra excepted, see http://www.moonofalabama.org/2014/09/israel-introduces-iran-bogeyman-to-cover-up-military-help-for-isis.html. And uber zionist Spencer Ackerman published his pillow-talk with Al Qaeda's Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi in the Guardian the other day -- http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/10/how-isis-crippled-al-qaida -ed ] It would moreover entail setting up new machinery for establishing, training and arming a Druze army of 20,000 to 30,000 fighting men.But by withholding support, Israel would make itself responsible for whatever befalls the beleaguered Syrian Druze community, including possibly mass executions by Islamic extremists for their unique faith.Also taken into account is the proposal Tehran, Damascus and Hizballah put before the Druzes this week: to build them an army and provide it with weapons, against a pledge never to raise arms against Syrian President Bashar Assad or his troops.No other strings were tied to the offer. The Druze army would not be given any tasks other than to defend Jabal Druze and its hundreds of small towns and villages.Druze acceptance of Tehran’s proposition would have the effect of strengthening Iran’s hold on Damascus and weakening the Syrian opposition forces fighting in the south, with no guarantees about where this equation would end up in terms of new threats to Israeli security.

Tangled webs and weavers.

Well to remember that Iran's master weavers reassembled shredded US documents that provided evidence of US perfidy in its relations with the Iranian government under Shah Pahlavi.

** Israel is doing its level best to eradicate Bedouin -- level as in leveling Bedouin encampments and destroying their grazing fields and way of life and forcing them into compounds that remind one of reservations. Tikkun loam in action.

Mr. 204. Isn’t your position essentially the same as those who were arguing that the plantation slaves have it so good it made little sense to oppose slavery. Why don’t you describe how good the Palestinians in the occupied territories have it? Might it be because they are as well off as the slaves in the cotton fields?

Might it be because they are as well off as the slaves in the cotton fields?

you know you are engaging in polemics. Never said their lives (WB Pals) are a bed of roses, but you insist on calling them slaves. I am in favour of a 2SS on balance. They can have their state, which should include the Arab villages Umm El Faqhm, Qualqiliya, etc (inside the Green Line) and a few others. We take Ariel, Gush Etzion and Ma'ale Adumim. You make sure that the aforementioned arab villages concede to this plan (I am not holding my breath!)

Jerusalem: We keep West Jerusalem, they can take the blighted East.

We will certainly help them with organising their new state as we wish to have prosperous neighbours, but you revolutionaries need to make sure the other Arab states want this!

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so.

Rabbi Yechial Eckstein and Yael Eckstein run an organization that persuades American Christians to travel to Israel but more importantly to send their money to Israel to support impoverished Jews in Israel, including holocaust survivors. http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/about

Readers of this blog will be aware that "survivors" of an alleged holocaust in Germany have been and continue to be paid reparations up the wazoo.

First, a "survivor" is defined as any Jew who lived in any place where war broke out in WWII. A Jew who spent the war in the lap of luxury in France or Italy, sublimely unimpacted by the war that Jewish leaders provoked, is a "holocaust survivor" entitled to reparations.

Rabbi Eckstein has set up a neat scam: while Edgar Bronfman and others bilk the German people out of billions, Jewish managers of the funds siphon them off for their own use, and Eckstein plucks the sympathetic strings of brain-dead Christians to make welfare payments to Jewish people in Israel that Israel's government neglects in preference for creating the world's eleventh-largest military in the world.

@ Shama:

You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans

You'll get a decidedly different impression if you read the Jewish press from Israel or the United States.
I've been reading the Jewish Daily Forward (US), and from Israel, Haaretz, YNet, and Times of Israel and others for nearly a decade and have compiled a fat file of truly vicious comments about Americans and their leaders. The last thing in the world I would want to do is to encounter face-to-face the people who write that vile stuff. As was reinforced on a trip to Iran, "what you think is what you say and what you say is what you do." (The "trinity" of Zoroastrianism, the religious core of Iran, is "Good thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds".)

http://www.avigailabarbanel.me.uk/gaza-2009-01-04.html
"Israel’s social problems have grown exponentially over the past 15 years. It’s a very different Israel now than the one I grew up in. There is more violent and organised crime than ever before, and more domestic violence and abuse of children than ever. There are more drugs and drug use, and they have drink-driving, something I have never encountered while I was still living there. This is reflected in official reports as well as in the daily newspapers. My brother who lives in Israel described to me how soldiers who spend their military service in the Occupied Palestinian territories implementing Israel’s brutal occupation, come home on weekends only to get involved in drunken armed brawls and murders. This was unheard of in my time.

Israelis have never been particularly kind to each other. It’s one of the reasons I left actually. In my late twenties I started to grow weary of the unkind, harsh and unforgiving atmosphere around me. It was a tough place to live in not because of our ‘enemies’ but because of how people treated one another. You would believe that we were all enemies rather than people who have some kind of a shared heritage. "

Finally, an invitation to visit Israel is a lot like being invited to go for a joyride in a stolen car.

(The “trinity” of Zoroastrianism, the religious core of Iran, is “Good thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds”.)

That’s really and truly bollock’s! Islamisation has made Zoroastrianism a fringe culture in Iran. I don’t think there are any more than 20k zoroastrians in Iran these days, most having fled to India back in the days when muslim arabs were galloping in to perform the ritual slaughter!

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can’t be sure, but I think Adelson’s got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so.

Rabbi Yechial Eckstein and Yael Eckstein run an organization that persuades American Christians to travel to Israel but more importantly to send their money to Israel to support impoverished Jews in Israel, including holocaust survivors. http://www.ifcj.org/site/PageNavigator/eng/about

Readers of this blog will be aware that "survivors" of an alleged holocaust in Germany have been and continue to be paid reparations up the wazoo.

First, a "survivor" is defined as any Jew who lived in any place where war broke out in WWII. A Jew who spent the war in the lap of luxury in France or Italy, sublimely unimpacted by the war that Jewish leaders provoked, is a "holocaust survivor" entitled to reparations.

Rabbi Eckstein has set up a neat scam: while Edgar Bronfman and others bilk the German people out of billions, Jewish managers of the funds siphon them off for their own use, and Eckstein plucks the sympathetic strings of brain-dead Christians to make welfare payments to Jewish people in Israel that Israel's government neglects in preference for creating the world's eleventh-largest military in the world.

@ Shama:

You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans

You'll get a decidedly different impression if you read the Jewish press from Israel or the United States.
I've been reading the Jewish Daily Forward (US), and from Israel, Haaretz, YNet, and Times of Israel and others for nearly a decade and have compiled a fat file of truly vicious comments about Americans and their leaders. The last thing in the world I would want to do is to encounter face-to-face the people who write that vile stuff. As was reinforced on a trip to Iran, "what you think is what you say and what you say is what you do." (The "trinity" of Zoroastrianism, the religious core of Iran, is "Good thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds".)

http://www.avigailabarbanel.me.uk/gaza-2009-01-04.html
"Israel’s social problems have grown exponentially over the past 15 years. It’s a very different Israel now than the one I grew up in. There is more violent and organised crime than ever before, and more domestic violence and abuse of children than ever. There are more drugs and drug use, and they have drink-driving, something I have never encountered while I was still living there. This is reflected in official reports as well as in the daily newspapers. My brother who lives in Israel described to me how soldiers who spend their military service in the Occupied Palestinian territories implementing Israel’s brutal occupation, come home on weekends only to get involved in drunken armed brawls and murders. This was unheard of in my time.

Israelis have never been particularly kind to each other. It’s one of the reasons I left actually. In my late twenties I started to grow weary of the unkind, harsh and unforgiving atmosphere around me. It was a tough place to live in not because of our ‘enemies’ but because of how people treated one another. You would believe that we were all enemies rather than people who have some kind of a shared heritage. "

Finally, an invitation to visit Israel is a lot like being invited to go for a joyride in a stolen car.

You’ll get a decidedly different impression if you read the Jewish press from Israel or the United States.
I’ve been reading the Jewish Daily Forward (US), and from Israel, Haaretz, YNet, and Times of Israel and others for nearly a decade and have compiled a fat file of truly vicious comments about Americans and their leaders. The last thing in the world I would want to do is to encounter face-to-face…

Jews around the world, to put the boot on the other foot, needn’t “compile” a decades worth of reading, just a few casual glances at your own ruminations in the Review, would ineluctably conclude the second coming of the Fuhrer in the U.S!. But being curious creatures, they would still choose discover for themselves in actual experience.

On the matter of Israeli security. Yes they are suspicious of people who travel frequently to Iran, and your case would likely administer a proctology exam, in addition to the routine, not realising however, that it acts as source of pleasure for the recipient.

Nobody could convince me that NSA are sitting on all this wonderfully detailed financial and personal information and selflessly inventing ways to use it only for the national interest

Indeed, one could begin with this glimpse:

Thousands of technology, finance and manufacturing companies are working closely with U.S. national security agencies, providing sensitive information and in return receiving benefits that include access to classified intelligence, four people familiar with the process said.

These programs, whose participants are known as trusted partners, extend far beyond what was revealed by Edward Snowden, a computer technician who did work for the National Security Agency

The implications are quite profound (and put the lie to the idea we live in any system other than corporate oligarchy, my view.) Also we should find a new way to refer to the NSA, such as NSA-P, recalling what never enters the mind of most who've heard of the NSA, it is essentially an office of the Pentagon.

Also we should find a new way to refer to the NSA, such as NSA-P, recalling what never enters the mind of most who’ve heard of the NSA, it is essentially an office of the Pentagon.

—

In Niall Fergusson’s biography of the Rothschilds, he explained how the Rothschild empire was built on superior access to information about others, and control of information about its own activities.

The first settlements of European Jews in Palestine were sponsored by the Rothschilds.
It’s only natural that the Israeli weltanschauung would place a very high value on information-in and information-out (see, for example, Hasbara manual, above).

So add one more character to that hyphenated designation: NSA-PI. If the NSA knows it, Israel knows it. If the Pentagon has access to it, Israel has access to it.

But individuals are not the only, or even most desirable source for information and object of US spying activities.

In 2004 Stuart Levey became the first Under Secretary for Terrorism and Financial Intelligence within the United States Department of the Treasury, an office Levey created after persuading then-Secretary of State Condi Rice of its usefulness. What’s important to focus on is that the U S Department of Treasury has been turned into a spy agency: TFI marries the Department of Treasury’s mechanisms that enforce a dollar-denominated global economy with the capabilities of USA’s intelligence-gathering facilities to hoover the profoundly private information that passes between international banks and corporations.

This information is used to shut down, or punish, or fine, or arm-twist banks, brokerages and global institutions that do not do what the US — or more specifically, the corrupted US establishment that has been in full force since LBJ allowed Israel to gain the upper hand by letting it get away with attacking the USS Liberty — demands that it do.

As Phil Giraldi stated above and as common sense dictates, Israel fits the definition of “rogue” state.

As even the wikipedia version of the activities of Rafael “Rafi” Eitan reveal, if that Israeli nonagenarian who now raises tropical fish on his property in Israel is not a terrorist, nobody is.

Eitan’s terrorist activities, in collaboration with those of Zalman Shapiro (and Arlen Specter who provided political cover and protection from prosecution for Shapiro), Richard Kelly Smith, Arnon Milchan, were carried out in large measure in clandestine pursuit of weapons of mass destruction.

If the USA were running a legitimate government and no one that has been overtaken by another entity’s operatives, the US Department of Treasury would be prosecuting and sanctioning Israel and its numerous spies and terrorists.

I think you chaps ought to visit Israel. Can't be sure, but I think Adelson's got a foundation that hosts and supports Christians who wish to do so. You will find that Israelis absolutely love America and Americans (and btw please don't invoke the "enormous $3b paid etc. etc". The typical Israeli has not a clue about it, and in any case that money is spent buying American products for the most part.....). There are some things you need to realise about overt Israeli participation in U.S. missions: it would tend not to sit too well with the Arabs. However Israel does more than you realise or care to admit). Point is, don't send them to Coventry before you know them!

I have no desire to visit a Middle Eastern nation. Adelson should be deported to his beloved terrorist state.

There is no such thing as a “Palestinian”. Never has been. There are just Egyptians, Jordanians and Syrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Israel. They make an unproductive desert of all the land they have, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

Just like there was no such thing as a “German Jew”. Never has been. There were just Poles, Russians and Austrians who were abandoned in that area and refused re-entry into their homelands as a way of inconveniencing Germany. They made a chaotic and subversive political and social climate of all the positions they had, so why should they be given a single square inch more?

“Just like there was no such thing as a “German Jew”.”

With all the satellite imagery available today, you should have no problem showing us where the Palestinian death camps and ovens are. And the mass grave sites. And the piles of shoes.

the Palestinian death camps and ovens are. And the mass grave sites. And the piles of shoes.
Oh, wait…they don’t exist.

Neither do German death camps and ovens . . . and piles of shoes exist other than in movies and museums replicated in Imaginary Witness to a propaganda campaign that burst the bounds of honesty and decency in preference for "verisimilitude" and emotionalism -- not to mention revenue streams aplenty.

Mr. 204. Isn't your position essentially the same as those who were arguing that the plantation slaves have it so good it made little sense to oppose slavery. Why don't you describe how good the Palestinians in the occupied territories have it? Might it be because they are as well off as the slaves in the cotton fields?

Might it be because they are as well off as the slaves in the cotton fields?

you know you are engaging in polemics. Never said their lives (WB Pals) are a bed of roses, but you insist on calling them slaves. I am in favour of a 2SS on balance. They can have their state, which should include the Arab villages Umm El Faqhm, Qualqiliya, etc (inside the Green Line) and a few others. We take Ariel, Gush Etzion and Ma’ale Adumim. You make sure that the aforementioned arab villages concede to this plan (I am not holding my breath!)

Jerusalem: We keep West Jerusalem, they can take the blighted East.

We will certainly help them with organising their new state as we wish to have prosperous neighbours, but you revolutionaries need to make sure the other Arab states want this!

btw - I've already described what the requirements are for a potential "solution":

Fran, here is a bare bones outline of “my solution”:

1) Like other countries that have been “encouraged” to abide by international law, Israel must be required to do the same. This means that Israel must withdraw from all territory it seized through war, including the West Bank (East Jerusalem), Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms. It must also end the seige of the Gaza Strip.

2) I would also make all forms of U.S. support – financial, military, diplomatic – contingent on Israel abiding by all UN Resolutions.

3) Regarding the issue of the 2SS vs the 1SS, Israel has placed so many “facts on the ground,” that it has rendered the 2SS unviable. If they are not willing to remove all the settlements in the WB, the only other alternatives are an Apartheid state or a 1SS. I think most would agree with me that the latter is preferable to the former.

Wait, I need to continue, you seem to think that your information is the dog's bollocks, but to borrow an Americanism, "It ain't so pal!". What I said earlier is the unadulterated truth, so let me expand.

Israeli Arabs do vote and send members to the Knesset. The Arab List is one of the most vocal segments of member body in the Knesset and acts as the cornerstone to fight for arab welfare. I never said that they are living blissfully. Obviously many of them are less than supportive of the Jewish state, yet when faced with making a choice to move to a prospective Palestinian State or remain in Israel, to the man (ok maybe not exactly), choose the latter. Are you surprised? For example, I will speculate without evidence here, that if Blacks in the U.S. were given a choice to carve out a country of their own, say in Mississippi, you'd be hard pressed to find a roomful of takers!

When it comes to the Druze and the Bedouim, the story is starkly different. Especially the Druze. Almost all Druze men join the IDF (many of them rise to the top positions, I personally know about 10), are deeply loyal to Israel, and say quite openly, what should be obvious to all : that Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

The Palestinian arabs (mostly Egyptians, some Jordanians, Syrians and assorted others) are a pawn in the game for the Palestinian aristocracy (I am sure you know some family names that have actually been ensconced in Jerusalem for millennia) who have thrown away the scabbard, since lacking the knowledge of statecraft and its potential disadvantage for them, were the state to actually emerge as a reality, play a skillful game of billiards. The Palestinian refugees are used by other Arab states, again as pawns, to display as so much Lenten fare for the benefit, or rather the violent outrage, of their own populace.

If the Palestinians were smart (or their leadership sincere), they would have adopted the attitude of the Druze.

“If the Palestinians were smart (or their leadership sincere), they would have adopted the attitude of the Druze.”

Are you seriously suggesting the Palestinians Arabs (who are not native Palestinians, according to you, but “mostly Egyptians, some Jordanians, Syrians and assorted others”) should be more like the Druz by being “deeply loyal to Israel”?

Might it be because they are as well off as the slaves in the cotton fields?

you know you are engaging in polemics. Never said their lives (WB Pals) are a bed of roses, but you insist on calling them slaves. I am in favour of a 2SS on balance. They can have their state, which should include the Arab villages Umm El Faqhm, Qualqiliya, etc (inside the Green Line) and a few others. We take Ariel, Gush Etzion and Ma'ale Adumim. You make sure that the aforementioned arab villages concede to this plan (I am not holding my breath!)

Jerusalem: We keep West Jerusalem, they can take the blighted East.

We will certainly help them with organising their new state as we wish to have prosperous neighbours, but you revolutionaries need to make sure the other Arab states want this!

This is all keyboard politics, but its worth a try.

“… you know you are engaging in polemics. “

And what might you be engaging in?

btw – I’ve already described what the requirements are for a potential “solution”:

Fran, here is a bare bones outline of “my solution”:

1) Like other countries that have been “encouraged” to abide by international law, Israel must be required to do the same. This means that Israel must withdraw from all territory it seized through war, including the West Bank (East Jerusalem), Golan Heights, and the Shebaa Farms. It must also end the seige of the Gaza Strip.

2) I would also make all forms of U.S. support – financial, military, diplomatic – contingent on Israel abiding by all UN Resolutions.

3) Regarding the issue of the 2SS vs the 1SS, Israel has placed so many “facts on the ground,” that it has rendered the 2SS unviable. If they are not willing to remove all the settlements in the WB, the only other alternatives are an Apartheid state or a 1SS. I think most would agree with me that the latter is preferable to the former.

Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

Priceless.

As your British affectations imply, nothing so terrifies an Israeli Jew, and maybe even an American Jew, regardless of Polish or Russian origins, as having his/her Arab/Semitic roots revealed.

“At the end of every Hebrew sentence that you utter
There sits an Arab smoking his hookah,
Even if it begun in Siberia,
Or in Hollywood, with Hava Nagilah.
–Me’ir Ariel, in The Disenchantment of the Orient.

If the “ancient homeland of the Jewish people” was such a swell place, why didn’t Polish and Russian Jews who invaded it seek to replicate particularly and peculiarly Jewish values?

Instead, it was and is German values that Jews sought to replicate on other people’s lands on the shores of the Mediterranean.

During the 1890s, [Otto] Warburg was deeply involved with German colonial activities and it is impossible to understand his conception of Zionism outside this context. . . .

Warburg, the professional colonialist and man of practical vision and Ruppin, the young social Darwinist and Weichensteller who was anxious to implement his theory, were perfectly matched to initiate and implement a culture plan.
As a scientist and colonization expert, Warburg realized that . . . the German and Zionist plans [for colonization] stressed research and scientific development. The technical and scientific teams in the German colonies were considered by the experts as technically excellent and were “the envy of foreign colonial services”** (Smith 1978, 135), as were the experimental stations they established. Warburg frequently wrote about these stations, praising those European governments that supported them, and he called on governments or private institutions to construct microbiological institutes for disease control, and training farms (Penslar 1990, 148). The fact that Warburg thought about training farms as far back as 1899
172
will prove important in the following chapter, which will try to clarify Ruppin’s implementation of this idea ten years later in the modern-Hebrew social field. . . .

To note one example, Ruppin realized, as early as 1910, that the streets of Tel Aviv were much too narrow for a proper city. His attempts to correct this failed in most cases because the buyers of the plots would not or could not finance wide streets; they did not want to “waste” their land on public space. Thus they built cheaply, with low standards and no proper planning, just ad hoc planning in most cases (see: Shavit & Biger 2001, 20-21).
Ruppin’s . . . recommendation to the JNF in support of the founding of Tel Aviv . . . explained that a Jewish urban settlement would create a market for the agriculture produce of the Jewish agriculture sector, and would also divert the flow of capital from the Arabs of Jaffa (who profited from the rent of apartments), into Jewish hands (in: Shavit & Biger 2001, 66). Ruppin explained the attraction of Tel Aviv for immigrants and Jewish capital as being a place where immigrants can live in a “healthy European atmosphere”.* Arthur Ruppin and the Production of the Modern Hebrew Culture
THESIS SUBMITTED FOR THE DEGREE “DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY” by Etan Bloom. SUBMITTED TO THE SENATE OF TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY (1st December, 2008)

Commissioned by the Jewish Colonization Society of Vienna, in 1907 Ruppin surveyed the situation of Jews in Palestine. He described three categories of Jews living there: ancient Sephardic Jews closely assimilated with their Arab neighbors, the whole living a meagre existence; Ashkenazi Jews living on the “defective” Hallukah system of donations from Jews in their countries of origin and, like the Sepharadic-cum-Arabs, demonstrating little prosperity and “a not particularly high moral standing,” although Hallukah Jews did hold themselves somewhat aloof from Sephardic Jews because of their perceived educational superiority.

Ruppin made numerous astute observations about how the various and widely diverse categories of Jews succeeded or failed to succeed in Palestine:

“In Jerusalem . . .we find a considerable element, of recent growth, which earns its living by work; it is composed partly of Jews from Persia, Yemen, Bokhara and Morocco, and partly of young Jews of the modern type from Eastern Europe, who have come to Palestine under the influence of the Zionist idea. It is an exceedingly motley mixture of Jews from all the countries under the sun which makes up the Jewish population of Jerusalem. There are many interesting observations to be made on the diverse modes of life adopted by these Jewish settlers. The Bokharian Jew is generally well to do or even rich, and it is a matter of pride with him to have a handsome and roomy house in Jerusalem. The East-European Jew builds himself a small, wretched dwelling. Even more primitive is the e mode of life of the Yemenite Jew, who is happy to have any sort of home. Nevertheless these immigrants from Yemen are a valuable element for Palestine, for they are able, by virtue of the fewness of their needs, to compete successfully with the cheap labor of the Arabs. . . .”

One final keen observation from Ruppin’s 1907 visit that Jews today might do well to take to heart:

The first mistake which I must point out was the fact that the persons who were to be transformed into farmers did not know enough about agriculture. They had not been brought into the country according to plan; they had simply come, had installed themselves one way or another as agriculturalists, soon found themselves at the end of their means, and called for help. It is difficult to find among the Jews the right sort of human material for agriculture; there are, indeed, statistics of Russian, Galician and East European Jews who live by agriculture; but there seems to be a wide gap between these statistics and what I have observed personally in East Europe. The Jews who, according to the statistical tables, belong in the class of agriculturalists, are for the most part not farmers, but landowners, who lease out their lands, or agricultural day laborers, or else small cattle-breeders; in any case, they are not the type of farmer which is needed for Palestine. In consequence it appears altogether doubtful whether we shall find, anywhere in the world, Jews whose abilities and training would fit them to become successful farmers in Palestine . . .

The second mistake consisted in the fact that persons who were in desperate need suddenly found themselves, through the munificence of Baron Rothschild, in possession of considerable sums, and could without any effort on their own part obtain all sorts of equipment which other farmers must as a rule acquire slowly, through the years, and by the sweat of the brow. And the old rule still holds, that the man who acquires the means to a livelihood only after much effort, prizes and guards these means, while the man who has these means thrown into his lap will not know how to appreciate them. We therefore find in Palestine a vast difference between German and Jewish colonists in regard to the card which they bestow on their live and other stock. This has nothing to do with inferior ability on the part of the Jews but with the circumstance that the German colonist has created what he possesses by his own labor, and he treats it with more care, foresight and affection. The superior stability of the German on the land, again, is connected with the organic way in which he acquired, and grew with, his possessions; the Jew obtained his as it were overnight.”

I have a few words for you, Lydian-Greek, hiding behind a name that only exists not quite in mythology:
Adapt, innovate, improve, conserve, remember.

Those are the guiding principles for all Jews. We speak all languages, yet we speak one. Many of us are secular, many deeply religious. Many are scientists and many poets. Whether all souls feel it, I know not, tikkun olam guides us.

Of course we are semitic (we share with true Palestinians, a large portion of haplogroups) You have to be daft and blind to not have noticed my love for Hebrew. We are secure in the knowledge that the European culture we played a part in crafting and contributing to, is the better one for this century and beyond.

You can now go back to snipping articles for another decade, for all your ravings will not amount to more than a handful simoleon.

With all the satellite imagery available today, you should have no problem showing us where the Palestinian death camps and ovens are. And the mass grave sites. And the piles of shoes.

Oh, wait...they don't exist.

the Palestinian death camps and ovens are. And the mass grave sites. And the piles of shoes.
Oh, wait…they don’t exist.

Neither do German death camps and ovens . . . and piles of shoes exist other than in movies and museums replicated in Imaginary Witness to a propaganda campaign that burst the bounds of honesty and decency in preference for “verisimilitude” and emotionalism — not to mention revenue streams aplenty.

Now, you just wait a minute! I just read where some holohoax investigators in Poland had un-earthed the long-buried foundation of a gas where 250,000 Jews were gassed. From pictures taken of the gas chamber foundation it appears that the chamber must have been about 16 x 20 feet. http://au.ibtimes.com/nazi-chambers-gassed-250000-found-polands-sobibor-1371143

Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

Priceless.

As your British affectations imply, nothing so terrifies an Israeli Jew, and maybe even an American Jew, regardless of Polish or Russian origins, as having his/her Arab/Semitic roots revealed.

"At the end of every Hebrew sentence that you utter
There sits an Arab smoking his hookah,
Even if it begun in Siberia,
Or in Hollywood, with Hava Nagilah. --Me'ir Ariel, in The Disenchantment of the Orient.

If the "ancient homeland of the Jewish people" was such a swell place, why didn't Polish and Russian Jews who invaded it seek to replicate particularly and peculiarly Jewish values?

Instead, it was and is German values that Jews sought to replicate on other people's lands on the shores of the Mediterranean.

During the 1890s, [Otto] Warburg was deeply involved with German colonial activities and it is impossible to understand his conception of Zionism outside this context. . . .

Warburg, the professional colonialist and man of practical vision and Ruppin, the young social Darwinist and Weichensteller who was anxious to implement his theory, were perfectly matched to initiate and implement a culture plan.
As a scientist and colonization expert, Warburg realized that . . . the German and Zionist plans [for colonization] stressed research and scientific development. The technical and scientific teams in the German colonies were considered by the experts as technically excellent and were “the envy of foreign colonial services”** (Smith 1978, 135), as were the experimental stations they established. Warburg frequently wrote about these stations, praising those European governments that supported them, and he called on governments or private institutions to construct microbiological institutes for disease control, and training farms (Penslar 1990, 148). The fact that Warburg thought about training farms as far back as 1899
172
will prove important in the following chapter, which will try to clarify Ruppin’s implementation of this idea ten years later in the modern-Hebrew social field. . . .

To note one example, Ruppin realized, as early as 1910, that the streets of Tel Aviv were much too narrow for a proper city. His attempts to correct this failed in most cases because the buyers of the plots would not or could not finance wide streets; they did not want to “waste” their land on public space. Thus they built cheaply, with low standards and no proper planning, just ad hoc planning in most cases (see: Shavit & Biger 2001, 20-21).
Ruppin’s . . . recommendation to the JNF in support of the founding of Tel Aviv . . . explained that a Jewish urban settlement would create a market for the agriculture produce of the Jewish agriculture sector, and would also divert the flow of capital from the Arabs of Jaffa (who profited from the rent of apartments), into Jewish hands (in: Shavit & Biger 2001, 66). Ruppin explained the attraction of Tel Aviv for immigrants and Jewish capital as being a place where immigrants can live in a “healthy European atmosphere”.*
Arthur Ruppin and the Production of the Modern Hebrew CultureTHESIS SUBMITTED FOR THE DEGREE “DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY” by Etan Bloom. SUBMITTED TO THE SENATE OF TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY (1st December, 2008)

Commissioned by the Jewish Colonization Society of Vienna, in 1907 Ruppin surveyed the situation of Jews in Palestine. He described three categories of Jews living there: ancient Sephardic Jews closely assimilated with their Arab neighbors, the whole living a meagre existence; Ashkenazi Jews living on the "defective" Hallukah system of donations from Jews in their countries of origin and, like the Sepharadic-cum-Arabs, demonstrating little prosperity and "a not particularly high moral standing," although Hallukah Jews did hold themselves somewhat aloof from Sephardic Jews because of their perceived educational superiority.

Ruppin made numerous astute observations about how the various and widely diverse categories of Jews succeeded or failed to succeed in Palestine:

"In Jerusalem . . .we find a considerable element, of recent growth, which earns its living by work; it is composed partly of Jews from Persia, Yemen, Bokhara and Morocco, and partly of young Jews of the modern type from Eastern Europe, who have come to Palestine under the influence of the Zionist idea. It is an exceedingly motley mixture of Jews from all the countries under the sun which makes up the Jewish population of Jerusalem. There are many interesting observations to be made on the diverse modes of life adopted by these Jewish settlers. The Bokharian Jew is generally well to do or even rich, and it is a matter of pride with him to have a handsome and roomy house in Jerusalem. The East-European Jew builds himself a small, wretched dwelling. Even more primitive is the e mode of life of the Yemenite Jew, who is happy to have any sort of home. Nevertheless these immigrants from Yemen are a valuable element for Palestine, for they are able, by virtue of the fewness of their needs, to compete successfully with the cheap labor of the Arabs. . . ."

One final keen observation from Ruppin's 1907 visit that Jews today might do well to take to heart:

The first mistake which I must point out was the fact that the persons who were to be transformed into farmers did not know enough about agriculture. They had not been brought into the country according to plan; they had simply come, had installed themselves one way or another as agriculturalists, soon found themselves at the end of their means, and called for help. It is difficult to find among the Jews the right sort of human material for agriculture; there are, indeed, statistics of Russian, Galician and East European Jews who live by agriculture; but there seems to be a wide gap between these statistics and what I have observed personally in East Europe. The Jews who, according to the statistical tables, belong in the class of agriculturalists, are for the most part not farmers, but landowners, who lease out their lands, or agricultural day laborers, or else small cattle-breeders; in any case, they are not the type of farmer which is needed for Palestine. In consequence it appears altogether doubtful whether we shall find, anywhere in the world, Jews whose abilities and training would fit them to become successful farmers in Palestine . . .

The second mistake consisted in the fact that persons who were in desperate need suddenly found themselves, through the munificence of Baron Rothschild, in possession of considerable sums, and could without any effort on their own part obtain all sorts of equipment which other farmers must as a rule acquire slowly, through the years, and by the sweat of the brow. And the old rule still holds, that the man who acquires the means to a livelihood only after much effort, prizes and guards these means, while the man who has these means thrown into his lap will not know how to appreciate them. We therefore find in Palestine a vast difference between German and Jewish colonists in regard to the card which they bestow on their live and other stock. This has nothing to do with inferior ability on the part of the Jews but with the circumstance that the German colonist has created what he possesses by his own labor, and he treats it with more care, foresight and affection. The superior stability of the German on the land, again, is connected with the organic way in which he acquired, and grew with, his possessions; the Jew obtained his as it were overnight."

I have a few words for you, Lydian-Greek, hiding behind a name that only exists not quite in mythology:
Adapt, innovate, improve, conserve, remember.

Those are the guiding principles for all Jews. We speak all languages, yet we speak one. Many of us are secular, many deeply religious. Many are scientists and many poets. Whether all souls feel it, I know not, tikkun olam guides us.

Of course we are semitic (we share with true Palestinians, a large portion of haplogroups) You have to be daft and blind to not have noticed my love for Hebrew. We are secure in the knowledge that the European culture we played a part in crafting and contributing to, is the better one for this century and beyond.

You can now go back to snipping articles for another decade, for all your ravings will not amount to more than a handful simoleon.

All Jews are NOT alike, we must recognize on pain of ADL's wrath.-----

This conjunction just made me laugh:

You have to be daft and blind to not have noticed my love for Hebrew.

+

Also stop living in the 1900s, if not further back

--------1. Hebrew died 300 years BC. That's why Hebrew scripture had to be converted to Greek scripture so that Hebrews/Jews could read it -- those that were able to read, that is.Hebrew was not 'revived,' or at least a language labeled Hebrew compiled only in the 1800s.

Nevertheless it's rich that you seemingly join "all Jews" in claiming that Palestine belongs to them (at least that's what the theme song from Exodus says, and Hollywood movies are the ultimate source for history, aren't they) based on something Hebrews wrote in their myth-literature several thousand years ago, but warn others away from studying history written by and about Jews a hundred years ago and even 15 years ago.

Why are Jews/all Jews/some Jews terrified of non-Jews becoming conversant with the facts recorded by other Jews about Jewish people's own history? Are you afraid it will smash against the wall of the myths that have been concocted and cause concussions and repercussions?

2. You'll have to pardon the failure to make not of your "love for Hebrew."It's just that I don't, y'know, um, how to say this -- I don't give a tinker's dam.

Israel has brought European values in the middle East which includes civics, technology, finance, education, farming etc. They (the Druze) wish to preserve this state of things, and not have any truck whatsoever, with the Arab culture. There! got it off my chest.

Priceless.

As your British affectations imply, nothing so terrifies an Israeli Jew, and maybe even an American Jew, regardless of Polish or Russian origins, as having his/her Arab/Semitic roots revealed.

"At the end of every Hebrew sentence that you utter
There sits an Arab smoking his hookah,
Even if it begun in Siberia,
Or in Hollywood, with Hava Nagilah. --Me'ir Ariel, in The Disenchantment of the Orient.

If the "ancient homeland of the Jewish people" was such a swell place, why didn't Polish and Russian Jews who invaded it seek to replicate particularly and peculiarly Jewish values?

Instead, it was and is German values that Jews sought to replicate on other people's lands on the shores of the Mediterranean.

During the 1890s, [Otto] Warburg was deeply involved with German colonial activities and it is impossible to understand his conception of Zionism outside this context. . . .

Warburg, the professional colonialist and man of practical vision and Ruppin, the young social Darwinist and Weichensteller who was anxious to implement his theory, were perfectly matched to initiate and implement a culture plan.
As a scientist and colonization expert, Warburg realized that . . . the German and Zionist plans [for colonization] stressed research and scientific development. The technical and scientific teams in the German colonies were considered by the experts as technically excellent and were “the envy of foreign colonial services”** (Smith 1978, 135), as were the experimental stations they established. Warburg frequently wrote about these stations, praising those European governments that supported them, and he called on governments or private institutions to construct microbiological institutes for disease control, and training farms (Penslar 1990, 148). The fact that Warburg thought about training farms as far back as 1899
172
will prove important in the following chapter, which will try to clarify Ruppin’s implementation of this idea ten years later in the modern-Hebrew social field. . . .

To note one example, Ruppin realized, as early as 1910, that the streets of Tel Aviv were much too narrow for a proper city. His attempts to correct this failed in most cases because the buyers of the plots would not or could not finance wide streets; they did not want to “waste” their land on public space. Thus they built cheaply, with low standards and no proper planning, just ad hoc planning in most cases (see: Shavit & Biger 2001, 20-21).
Ruppin’s . . . recommendation to the JNF in support of the founding of Tel Aviv . . . explained that a Jewish urban settlement would create a market for the agriculture produce of the Jewish agriculture sector, and would also divert the flow of capital from the Arabs of Jaffa (who profited from the rent of apartments), into Jewish hands (in: Shavit & Biger 2001, 66). Ruppin explained the attraction of Tel Aviv for immigrants and Jewish capital as being a place where immigrants can live in a “healthy European atmosphere”.*
Arthur Ruppin and the Production of the Modern Hebrew CultureTHESIS SUBMITTED FOR THE DEGREE “DOCTOR OF PHILOSOPHY” by Etan Bloom. SUBMITTED TO THE SENATE OF TEL AVIV UNIVERSITY (1st December, 2008)

Commissioned by the Jewish Colonization Society of Vienna, in 1907 Ruppin surveyed the situation of Jews in Palestine. He described three categories of Jews living there: ancient Sephardic Jews closely assimilated with their Arab neighbors, the whole living a meagre existence; Ashkenazi Jews living on the "defective" Hallukah system of donations from Jews in their countries of origin and, like the Sepharadic-cum-Arabs, demonstrating little prosperity and "a not particularly high moral standing," although Hallukah Jews did hold themselves somewhat aloof from Sephardic Jews because of their perceived educational superiority.

Ruppin made numerous astute observations about how the various and widely diverse categories of Jews succeeded or failed to succeed in Palestine:

"In Jerusalem . . .we find a considerable element, of recent growth, which earns its living by work; it is composed partly of Jews from Persia, Yemen, Bokhara and Morocco, and partly of young Jews of the modern type from Eastern Europe, who have come to Palestine under the influence of the Zionist idea. It is an exceedingly motley mixture of Jews from all the countries under the sun which makes up the Jewish population of Jerusalem. There are many interesting observations to be made on the diverse modes of life adopted by these Jewish settlers. The Bokharian Jew is generally well to do or even rich, and it is a matter of pride with him to have a handsome and roomy house in Jerusalem. The East-European Jew builds himself a small, wretched dwelling. Even more primitive is the e mode of life of the Yemenite Jew, who is happy to have any sort of home. Nevertheless these immigrants from Yemen are a valuable element for Palestine, for they are able, by virtue of the fewness of their needs, to compete successfully with the cheap labor of the Arabs. . . ."

One final keen observation from Ruppin's 1907 visit that Jews today might do well to take to heart:

The first mistake which I must point out was the fact that the persons who were to be transformed into farmers did not know enough about agriculture. They had not been brought into the country according to plan; they had simply come, had installed themselves one way or another as agriculturalists, soon found themselves at the end of their means, and called for help. It is difficult to find among the Jews the right sort of human material for agriculture; there are, indeed, statistics of Russian, Galician and East European Jews who live by agriculture; but there seems to be a wide gap between these statistics and what I have observed personally in East Europe. The Jews who, according to the statistical tables, belong in the class of agriculturalists, are for the most part not farmers, but landowners, who lease out their lands, or agricultural day laborers, or else small cattle-breeders; in any case, they are not the type of farmer which is needed for Palestine. In consequence it appears altogether doubtful whether we shall find, anywhere in the world, Jews whose abilities and training would fit them to become successful farmers in Palestine . . .

The second mistake consisted in the fact that persons who were in desperate need suddenly found themselves, through the munificence of Baron Rothschild, in possession of considerable sums, and could without any effort on their own part obtain all sorts of equipment which other farmers must as a rule acquire slowly, through the years, and by the sweat of the brow. And the old rule still holds, that the man who acquires the means to a livelihood only after much effort, prizes and guards these means, while the man who has these means thrown into his lap will not know how to appreciate them. We therefore find in Palestine a vast difference between German and Jewish colonists in regard to the card which they bestow on their live and other stock. This has nothing to do with inferior ability on the part of the Jews but with the circumstance that the German colonist has created what he possesses by his own labor, and he treats it with more care, foresight and affection. The superior stability of the German on the land, again, is connected with the organic way in which he acquired, and grew with, his possessions; the Jew obtained his as it were overnight."

Also stop living in the 1900s, if not further back, and talking about agriculture, take a gander:

the Palestinian death camps and ovens are. And the mass grave sites. And the piles of shoes.
Oh, wait…they don’t exist.

Neither do German death camps and ovens . . . and piles of shoes exist other than in movies and museums replicated in Imaginary Witness to a propaganda campaign that burst the bounds of honesty and decency in preference for "verisimilitude" and emotionalism -- not to mention revenue streams aplenty.

Now, you just wait a minute! I just read where some holohoax investigators in Poland had un-earthed the long-buried foundation of a gas where 250,000 Jews were gassed. From pictures taken of the gas chamber foundation it appears that the chamber must have been about 16 x 20 feet. http://au.ibtimes.com/nazi-chambers-gassed-250000-found-polands-sobibor-1371143

I’m a Conservative with a Libertarian-streak. I’ve only been reading The Unz Review on a regular basis for just a few weeks. I find myself in agreement with most of the views/positions expressed here at Unz.

That said, I believe that the attack on the USS Liberty was a mistake, a case of “mistaken identity.” The science is in, it’s consistent and I’ll be blunt: [Ashkenazi] Jews are probably the most intelligent cohort on the planet (2. NEAs, 3. Caucasians, 4. “Browns” and finally, 5. Blacks). It simply does not make sense that Israel would knowingly & deliberately attack a naval vessel belonging to an ally like the U.S. An ally that was providing them with significant support. An ally that contained several million of their coreligionists (who were providing them with additional support). An ally capable of turning their entire nation into “a sheet of glass” within a matter of minutes.

Is it possible that two or three mid-level Israelis knew what was going on in real-time and took the “ostrich” approach or some variation on that theme? A lot of things are possible but I don’t believe that that was happening either.

As an aside, this whole “Jews secretly control the planet” business is just nonsense. Does the Jewish/Israeli lobby exert influence on U.S. politics disproportionate to their numbers? I’m sure that they do. That would be entirely consistent with the fact that they’re of above-average intelligence, education, wealth, motivation, ambition, very well organized and they vote. Another aside, I believe that Jews are one of the few groups that have disproportionately contributed to the growth of America.

(Their Pavlovian, lemming-like support of the Democratic-party & Leftist-causes, not so much. Hey, “Israeli Lobby,” I don’t know if you’ve noticed it but evangelical Christians in the U.S. are the biggest and most consistent supporters of Israel. The “Left” is steadily cursing you, especially when you go into Gaza and do what you *have* to do to survive; *we* get it).

You need to read up on the Lavon Affair/Operation Susannah. Israel knowingly and deliberately attacked their allies, in particular the Americans. A full decade earlier than 1967, at a time when they were even more vulnerable than during the USS Liberty bombing. There's no dispute that it happened on the orders of the Israeli govt, the surviving agents were officially honored in 2005 by being awarded certificates of appreciation by Israeli President Moshe Katzav.

Their Pavlovian, lemming-like support of the Democratic-party & Leftist-causes, not so much. Hey, “Israeli Lobby,” I don’t know if you’ve noticed it but evangelical Christians in the U.S. are the biggest and most consistent supporters of Israel.

I agree, and I also think its changing. Evangelicals perhaps understand intuitively far more than many in this blog would give them credit for, impugning their intelligence, character and everything in between.

That said, I believe that the attack on the USS Liberty was a mistake, a case of “mistaken identity.”

How do you "mistakenly" repeatedly attack a ship for hours that is flying a US flag?
How do you "mistakenly" attack a ship that looks nothing like the Egyptian cargo vessel the Israelis claim to have been attacking?

I have a few words for you, Lydian-Greek, hiding behind a name that only exists not quite in mythology:
Adapt, innovate, improve, conserve, remember.

Those are the guiding principles for all Jews. We speak all languages, yet we speak one. Many of us are secular, many deeply religious. Many are scientists and many poets. Whether all souls feel it, I know not, tikkun olam guides us.

Of course we are semitic (we share with true Palestinians, a large portion of haplogroups) You have to be daft and blind to not have noticed my love for Hebrew. We are secure in the knowledge that the European culture we played a part in crafting and contributing to, is the better one for this century and beyond.

You can now go back to snipping articles for another decade, for all your ravings will not amount to more than a handful simoleon.

——–
1. Hebrew died 300 years BC. That’s why Hebrew scripture had to be converted to Greek scripture so that Hebrews/Jews could read it — those that were able to read, that is.
Hebrew was not ‘revived,’ or at least a language labeled Hebrew compiled only in the 1800s.

Nevertheless it’s rich that you seemingly join “all Jews” in claiming that Palestine belongs to them (at least that’s what the theme song from Exodus says, and Hollywood movies are the ultimate source for history, aren’t they) based on something Hebrews wrote in their myth-literature several thousand years ago, but warn others away from studying history written by and about Jews a hundred years ago and even 15 years ago.

Why are Jews/all Jews/some Jews terrified of non-Jews becoming conversant with the facts recorded by other Jews about Jewish people’s own history? Are you afraid it will smash against the wall of the myths that have been concocted and cause concussions and repercussions?

2. You’ll have to pardon the failure to make not of your “love for Hebrew.”
It’s just that I don’t, y’know, um, how to say this — I don’t give a tinker’s dam.

If all of what you say is true, why doth thou yelpeth like a cur in pain? That the Jews are running your life, and indeed your afterlife?. That the bloody Greeks are begging for a Jewish bailout as they are about to be kicked out of the Euro?

"Stop living in the 1900s", just so you stop blathering rubbish about Israeli/Jewish lack of Agricultural prowess. If we bought the Agricultural know-how with Jewish money, all the better. You continue your marination in Greek yoghurt for the next thousand years.

I'm a Conservative with a Libertarian-streak. I've only been reading The Unz Review on a regular basis for just a few weeks. I find myself in agreement with most of the views/positions expressed here at Unz.

That said, I believe that the attack on the USS Liberty was a mistake, a case of "mistaken identity." The science is in, it's consistent and I'll be blunt: [Ashkenazi] Jews are probably the most intelligent cohort on the planet (2. NEAs, 3. Caucasians, 4. “Browns” and finally, 5. Blacks). It simply does not make sense that Israel would knowingly & deliberately attack a naval vessel belonging to an ally like the U.S. An ally that was providing them with significant support. An ally that contained several million of their coreligionists (who were providing them with additional support). An ally capable of turning their entire nation into “a sheet of glass” within a matter of minutes.

Is it possible that two or three mid-level Israelis knew what was going on in real-time and took the “ostrich” approach or some variation on that theme? A lot of things are possible but I don’t believe that that was happening either.

As an aside, this whole “Jews secretly control the planet” business is just nonsense. Does the Jewish/Israeli lobby exert influence on U.S. politics disproportionate to their numbers? I’m sure that they do. That would be entirely consistent with the fact that they’re of above-average intelligence, education, wealth, motivation, ambition, very well organized and they vote. Another aside, I believe that Jews are one of the few groups that have disproportionately contributed to the growth of America.

(Their Pavlovian, lemming-like support of the Democratic-party & Leftist-causes, not so much. Hey, “Israeli Lobby,” I don’t know if you’ve noticed it but evangelical Christians in the U.S. are the biggest and most consistent supporters of Israel. The “Left” is steadily cursing you, especially when you go into Gaza and do what you *have* to do to survive; *we* get it).

I'm a Conservative with a Libertarian-streak. I've only been reading The Unz Review on a regular basis for just a few weeks. I find myself in agreement with most of the views/positions expressed here at Unz.

That said, I believe that the attack on the USS Liberty was a mistake, a case of "mistaken identity." The science is in, it's consistent and I'll be blunt: [Ashkenazi] Jews are probably the most intelligent cohort on the planet (2. NEAs, 3. Caucasians, 4. “Browns” and finally, 5. Blacks). It simply does not make sense that Israel would knowingly & deliberately attack a naval vessel belonging to an ally like the U.S. An ally that was providing them with significant support. An ally that contained several million of their coreligionists (who were providing them with additional support). An ally capable of turning their entire nation into “a sheet of glass” within a matter of minutes.

Is it possible that two or three mid-level Israelis knew what was going on in real-time and took the “ostrich” approach or some variation on that theme? A lot of things are possible but I don’t believe that that was happening either.

As an aside, this whole “Jews secretly control the planet” business is just nonsense. Does the Jewish/Israeli lobby exert influence on U.S. politics disproportionate to their numbers? I’m sure that they do. That would be entirely consistent with the fact that they’re of above-average intelligence, education, wealth, motivation, ambition, very well organized and they vote. Another aside, I believe that Jews are one of the few groups that have disproportionately contributed to the growth of America.

(Their Pavlovian, lemming-like support of the Democratic-party & Leftist-causes, not so much. Hey, “Israeli Lobby,” I don’t know if you’ve noticed it but evangelical Christians in the U.S. are the biggest and most consistent supporters of Israel. The “Left” is steadily cursing you, especially when you go into Gaza and do what you *have* to do to survive; *we* get it).

You need to read up on the Lavon Affair/Operation Susannah. Israel knowingly and deliberately attacked their allies, in particular the Americans. A full decade earlier than 1967, at a time when they were even more vulnerable than during the USS Liberty bombing. There’s no dispute that it happened on the orders of the Israeli govt, the surviving agents were officially honored in 2005 by being awarded certificates of appreciation by Israeli President Moshe Katzav.

All Jews are NOT alike, we must recognize on pain of ADL's wrath.-----

This conjunction just made me laugh:

You have to be daft and blind to not have noticed my love for Hebrew.

+

Also stop living in the 1900s, if not further back

--------1. Hebrew died 300 years BC. That's why Hebrew scripture had to be converted to Greek scripture so that Hebrews/Jews could read it -- those that were able to read, that is.Hebrew was not 'revived,' or at least a language labeled Hebrew compiled only in the 1800s.

Nevertheless it's rich that you seemingly join "all Jews" in claiming that Palestine belongs to them (at least that's what the theme song from Exodus says, and Hol