I've heard that it was located at the left of the brake pedal in the Lancia D50 / Ferraris / Maserati 250F. Is it true ?? Which other F1 cars had the accelerator pedal to the left of the brake pedal ?? Denis Jenkinson mentioned in The Racing Driver that Fangio and Moss did not have problems when they had to switch from this kind of cars to the nowadays usual kind of location i.e. the Mercedes W 196, though other did not had the same hability

Arturo, can't help You much (still don't have my books with me), but I'm not so sure about Moss. Sure enough he could adapt to (I think it was central throttle, somebody will correct me as usual, if I'm wrong ) layout Maser used, but they modified his car in '56 to his preferred layout. Come to think of it, I believe I have heard that Piotti's car (one could be nasty and say Moss' backup car) was also equipped with the same layout, in case Moss needed to take over the car (needless to say, I don't think this was Piotti's preferred layout)...

If I could speak off top off my head, I think I've heard that central throttle was Italian traditional layout from pre-war years...

Arturo - centre throttle pedal - with brake pedal to the right, clutch pedal to the left - was absolutely standard practice pre-war and retained by the great Italian constructors long post-war. Vintage Vauxhalls and Bentleys have centre throttles, the Napier-Railton has a centre throttle, the Lancias, Maseratis, Ferraris almost all had centre throttles unless the customer - such as S.C. Moss - specified otherwise. In period, nothing unusual about that at all...

As far as I can remember, Denis Jenkinson mentioned in that book that Moss has an incident that was caused by this layout of the pedals in a Maserati 250F. Are there any other drivers who were confused by this pedal layout and made a mistake ??

Originally posted by Doug Nye Arturo - centre throttle pedal - with brake pedal to the right, clutch pedal to the left - was absolutely standard practice pre-war and retained by the great Italian constructors long post-war.

It was considered more speedy to heel-and-toe gearchanges with a crash-type gearbox with throttle in the centre and brake pedal to the right. The great Jano Alfas are the same...

Mossy objected to the system after crashing David Murray's Ferrari during practice at Bari when he went there to drive a works car, but found Mr Ferrari had left him out in the cold. Stirl hit the throttle instead of the brake when driving - as he did in his youth - on instinct, and he stuffed the ex-Whitehead SWB car into the straw bales.

One time at Donington I was following an American wheeler-dealer who fancied himself as a driver, and who was at the wheel of a SuperSqualo Ferrari. As I came out of Goddard's ess-bend I had a fantastic view - exact side elevation - of the Squalo absolutely broadside in my path, about 30 yards ahead. As I braked, the Squalo's rear tyre just about exploded into a whorl of blue smoke, like a catherine wheel firework - and the car accelerated like Don Garlits's dragster, at 90 degrees across the circuit, straight into the left-side concrete wall.

It was an astonishing sight...and remains unforgetably vivid.

The driver was thrown forward through the aero screen, then as the car bounced off he came half-out of the cockpit, arms flailing, and was hurled back over the tail. At that moment his crash helmet flew off and came rolling and bouncing down the road beside me as I drove by and came to a halt.

As I clambered out - which isn't easy from a Vanwall - and ran back to him (nobody else within 400 yards), the driver was lying on his back over the tail, which had white number discs each side. As I ran back the number disc was changing colour - to that of the car....

Bleeaghhh! I thought. The silly bugger's severed his jugular.

Well, in fact he hadn't. He'd only cut his head quite badly but that always bleeds like a stuck pig. He came round after a brief 'sleep' and escaped with cuts, bruises and a broken bone - I think - in his wrist. The centre throttle pedal - for that is what he'd hit - had disappeared clean through the floor panel, which was petalled inwards by the impact with the wall, and was trapped underneath there since he'd held his foot absolutely flat on it ALL the way...unable to comprehend in the heat of the moment that he was on the POWER not the BRAKE...

Whenever I drive a centre-throttle car I make myself repeat mentally - over and over again - brake on the right, brake on the right, brake on the right...

I believe that the central accelerator pedal has been suggested as a possible cause of Mario Alborghetti#s fatal crash at Pau in 1955. He was being lapped on the approach to an hairpin bend when he suddenly accelerated and crashed into the barriers.

Originally posted by oldtimer Doug - you were driving a Vanwall? Please tell us more. You don't have to tell us why you were behind a Super Squalo.

I'm sure Doug was catching the Squalo at the time ...... seeing as he was not confusing the throttle and brake pedal positions!

Another incident where the throttle position was a little odd: a mate and I were in a BIG hurry through the bush in a truck. The accelerator cable snapped, so I quickly bodged up a connection to the carb with the choke control ..... so there we were, me operating the throttle by hand from the passenger position (and basically keeping it flat out, apart from where gear changes were indicated, and laughing like a drain as we careened through the bush), and the driver swearing like blue blazes, scared out of his wits.

It was considered more speedy to heel-and-toe gearchanges with a crash-type gearbox with throttle in the centre and brake pedal to the right. The great Jano Alfas are the same...

And anatomically easier : It is not necessary to bend the foot for a heel-and-toe downchange. The question is why became it usual to place the accelerator pedal on the right side? The central pedal should be usual... Left foot braking is more difficult...

I guess we all have anatomical differences but I've never been convinced it is easier to heel-and-toe with a right-side throttle pedal and centre brake. It's all a matter of conditioning and either way - centre throttle or right-side throttle - seems equally easy to me, though various manufacturers - and drivers - sometimes fitted cleverly shaped 'L' pedals to ease the process even further. In my experience with veteran cars, well - up to and including 1908 GP Benz - braking with the heel on the pedal rather than the toe can actually apply greater pressure with less apparent expenditure of effort - which would be a very significant factor when tackling punishing roads over very long distances. The downside, of course, is lack of sensitivity because if the brakes just happened to work powerfully - like once in ten or twelve (early) applications - tyre adhesion was so low you'd lock a wheel for sure. It's an interesting conundrum...

I was taught to brake with my heal rather than toe. I guess it's what you know. Trying to drive always thinking about if the gas is in the middle or on the right sounds like a nightmare to me. Once you get familiar with the setup, fine, but until than...same with "backwards" gearboxes...

I think that each driver has his own technique. The main problem with this layout changes is when the driver gets used to one layout and he (could be she ) has to react all of a sudden to an unexpected situation. I would not like to be in the butt of a driver that looks for the brake only to find the accelerator in its place

Great pic Doug. Since you knew where the pedals were on the Vanwall, did you have time to notice the effect of the wobbly web/wire wheel combination? I believe the team drivers soon decided that that was the best, but could you sense the effect of the flexibility in the front wheels?

Tony Brooks also drove the pre-war Mercedes. How can we get that guy onto Atlas?

Originally posted by Doug Nye - centre throttle pedal - with brake pedal to the right, clutch pedal to the left - was absolutely standard practice pre-war and retained by the great Italian constructors long post-war. Vintage Vauxhalls and Bentleys have centre throttles, the Napier-Railton has a centre throttle, the Lancias, Maseratis, Ferraris almost all had centre throttles unless the customer - such as S.C. Moss - specified otherwise. In period, nothing unusual about that at all...

DCN

Just the other night I was enjoying dinner with a notable design theorist/human factors expert when the topic of motorcycle clutch pedal placement variation came up -- he was very interested to know why some bikes have it on the left, some on the right.

"Forget about motorcycles," I said. "If you really want to wrap your head around something interesting, let's talk about center throttle pedals in automobiles." I secretly smiled to myself, knowing I could turn to TNF to get the skinny on this fascinating topic.

On top of what's been discussed in this thread already, I'd like to better understand:

1) When did road cars standardize on the current layout of throttle on the right, brake to the left?

2) When did race cars (and in particular, GP cars) go to the now standard layout?

Originally posted by eldridge The Alfa Monza also has a centre throttle pedal....but remeber brake on the right, brake on the right, brake on the right...

(sorry for showing off, but I have to tell someone )

Lucky, lucky, ba#$*%d!

Is it a bit like driving on the wrong side of the road? -so scared of getting it wrong you remember only too well, the trouble begins when you get home and return to normal side.

The Maserati Talbot had a central throttle pedal and I was nearly the recipient of unwanted advances back in ’82 I think.Willie Green was having problems with it in the paddock and he speared it backwards at my poor car, luckily he switched pedals p.d.q. and he brought the missile to a halt in impressive fashion. The 4 or 5 on-lookers gave him a bit more room after that!

well diego, i can't tell you the whole story but suffice to say a shift lever and clutch,brake and throttle pedals are relatively [cough] recent assignments for certain automotive activities....i'll just give you a few examples from my own experience....1908 cadillac...throttle; a lever on the steering column...brake; pedal on the right...low gear; pedal on the left....high gear;giant lever on the outside of the car-push foreward to engage ..pull back for neutral...pull all the way back for reverse [or an assist to weak brake pedal]..as all the gears are planetary such activities could be done without the benifit of a clutch....to add to the worry, the spark advance/retard lever was opposite the gas and oh , the steering was on the right side of the car....to start the one GIANT cylinder you inserted a cast iron crank into a hole on the left side of the body and cranked counter-clockwise!...all well and good if it was the only car you drove...

1914 model t ford....again throttle and spark advance levers on the steering column [steering on the right this time] three pedals confront you...read carefully now..the LEFT pedal was the gear pedal;forward=low gear... holding the pedal mid stroke was neutral...let pedal spring all the way back= hi gear...now the pedal on the right is the brake-actuating a contracting band in yet another planetary transmission...now the MIDDLE pedal is reverse..to make it work one must push the gear pedal into "neutral",hold it there and push reverse with the other foot....the t ,with it's crank on the front is turned clockwise....one advantage...hit ANY pedal at speed and you will slow down.

1930 GP bugatti...RHD..normal pedal arrangement...central detached gearbox with inside shift gate on the drivers right but the lever pokes out a hole in the body to essentially become an outside shift lever..[oh yeah..h-pattern...1st,right/back...2ed straight forward...3rd;thru the gate to the right and pull back...4th; push straight ahead]

and then there's all the odd shift patterns...with cars with 2,3,4,5,and 6 speeds i often have to tape the right pattern to the dash...

On my old (1966) Formula Vee, the gear change was just an awful grafted-on VW type 1 thingie, which meant a sort-of-but-not-quite mirrored 'standard' H-pattern - as it was anyway due for replacement due to excessive wear and sat in a really awkward position, I took the opportunity to change it to standard H-pattern, as I would like people to try the car for fun without having to worry about unfamilliar shift patterns and all that it can lead to. I also find that with the 'standard' pattern I can change smoother and quicker.

Rather than start a new one, I did a search and found this, which isn't too far away from what I'm after. This query doesn't appear to have been answered, but I've just read a fairly old Eoin Young piece on Sir Stirling's never-fulfilled agreement to drive a Rob Walker entered Ferrari in 1962. Eoin quotes the reason for SCM's dislike of the central pedal arrangement, a fairly minor but well-documented off at Bari in 1950-something, the result of stamping on the wrong pedal in a moment of excitement in a borrowed Ferrari, but were Ferrari still favouring this layout in the 1960s, and were they alone in that? Eoin writes that a part of the agreement with Ferrari was that they'd build him a car with a more conventional three pedal layout. If the 156s had a central throttle pedal during the 1961 season, it seems surprising that everyone seems to have coped OK, I'd have thought that drivers who only did one or two events in the cars, like Gendebien, Mairesse, Baghetti etc would have found it hard to cope, and would have slipped up occasionally, but nothing along these lines seems to have been mentioned in contemporary race reports.

For what it's worth it might be of interest to our younger members if I point out one advantage the central throttle has:
remember that, in the days we are referring to, downward gearchanging required double declutching and part of that process is the blipped throttle during the process. Combine that with braking, as is not unusual, and the technique known as heel-and-toe is needed where the right foot works both brake and throttle pedals.
That is much easier with the central throttle as the natural angle of a foot is with toes turned outwards so when braking (with the ball of the foot) the heel is naturally over the throttle for the quick blip. With the RH throttle the foot has to be turned toe-in which is less natural and probably (certainly in my case) does not allow full brake effort to be used.
I would never claim to be a racing driver, but having driven road cars with both pedal arrangements I believe I have some relevant experience.

My Vintage Racer [ car in my profile photo ] has the throttle pedal to the left of the brake pedal and I have never found that a problem. Why is it like that - that is the way it was when I aquired it in 1965. There is no room for it to be placed to the right of the brake pedal. The sprint cars that I have raced had the throttle pedal on the right side of the cockpit and the brake pedal on the left side so you used your right foot for the trottle and left foot for the brake pedal............

For what it's worth it might be of interest to our younger members if I point out one advantage the central throttle has:

Thanks Allan, I know the theoretical advantages, but my question remains, were Ferrari alone in persisting with the central throttle arrangement, and were they still doing this in the early 60s? If so, wouldn't their sports & prototype cars be the same, surely they didn't just have it on their F1 cars? Did Ferrari (or other Italian) road cars ever have a central pedal, and if so when did the practice die out? I suppose it becomes second nature given enough practice, but I haven't double-declutched since I drove a friend's pre-war MG, and I didn't find it at all easy, especially with the proud owner squeezed in alongside me.

I drove a Kart recently [hire one] and after about 40 laps for some reason I tried to right foot brake. Ooops.
My mid 70s speedway Supermodified had when I got it the go on the right and a big long lever on the right as a brake,, and the clutch on the left. I changed it to left foot brake and hand clutch,, evidently as it was originally. Though in those days a hand brake was not unusual.
Depending on pedal height and spacing I can use my heel on the brake or toe. Every car is different.

Thanks Allan, I know the theoretical advantages, but my question remains, were Ferrari alone in persisting with the central throttle arrangement, and were they still doing this in the early 60s?

I'm sure I remember being told (but can't say by whom, therefore authenticity dodgy at best) that Maserati used central throttle and that the Moss-owned 250F had been changed to suit its owner. I have a further memory that says that SCM's 250F team car had been changed and in consequence could not be borrowed by team-mates.When he's back here regularly, David McK can doubtless either prove this to be all myth, or provide the missing references

Thanks Allan, I know the theoretical advantages, but my question remains, were Ferrari alone in persisting with the central throttle arrangement, and were they still doing this in the early 60s? If so, wouldn't their sports & prototype cars be the same, surely they didn't just have it on their F1 cars? Did Ferrari (or other Italian) road cars ever have a central pedal, and if so when did the practice die out? I suppose it becomes second nature given enough practice, but I haven't double-declutched since I drove a friend's pre-war MG, and I didn't find it at all easy, especially with the proud owner squeezed in alongside me.

I'm pretty sure Ferrari (like everyone else) had dropped central accelerators by the late 50s, apart from driver preference the reclined seating position in rear engined cars seems to make it harder to operate the pedals that way round.

Incidentally I thought the idea was that pushing with your heel on the brake pedal allowed greater force to be exerted, while the toes could then operate the accelerator more delicately, but the only experience I've had of such controls is with low performance/early cars with weird control layouts.

I'm pretty sure Ferrari (like everyone else) had dropped central accelerators by the late 50s, apart from driver preference the reclined seating position in rear engined cars seems to make it harder to operate the pedals that way round.

That wouldn't surprise me, but what about the 1961/62 Ferrari 156? He could be wrong of course, but Eoin Young stated quite categorically that the 61 cars had central pedals, and that they were going to build a special throttle pedal on the right car for Stirling to drive in 62, did he get it all wrong? On your second point, drivers did sit noticeably more upright in the Ferrari, when compared to their Lotus adversaries, I can quite see that foot acrobatics would be more difficult from a reclining position.

Incidentally I thought the idea was that pushing with your heel on the brake pedal allowed greater force to be exerted, while the toes could then operate the accelerator more delicately, but the only experience I've had of such controls is with low performance/early cars with weird control layouts.

I have always braked with the ball of the foot, whether heel-and-toeing or not. I would expect that braking with the heel would remove any of the easy ankle movement that would allow the foot articulation necessary for operating the throttle. In a double-declutched change, delecate throttle use is not involved, as it's more of a quick (but precisely timed!) jab.

When I was no'but a lad of 12 or so, my school's Jowett Bradford had a central accelerator, and I would hop from it to an Austin 7 and a Massey Ferguson tractor without thinking about it - I suppose the immediate environment instantly informed the brain, so you didn't consciously have to wonder where the pedals were located. I always preferred the central pedal, as has previously been said, heel & toeing is a lot easier. Efficient use of the feet is beneficial, when I had an automatic I learned to left foot brake though, in extremis, I twice found myself with 2 feet on the brake pedal!

I wonder how Roy Salvadori and others got on when driving several cars at the same meeting.

In respect of SCM at Maserati, I read somewhere that Behra insisted on a central accelerator to ensure that SCM would not take over his car. Given the 'musical chairs' played by the sports car team, I assume that all cars had accelerator pedals on the right.

Has anybody driven a Ferret scout car? Its two- pedal set up is unusual. The right pedal is a conventional accelerator but the left one works as the clutch pedal until half way down, push it further and the brakes come on. I believe it was intended to avoid stalling in extreme situations.

My 2-wheel-brake 30/98 [E-366, for the Vauxhall crowd] had centre throttle pedal, and it did make it easy to control both pedals. However, the only time the brake pedal, which operates the transmission brake, is used is for 'starts'....unless you want to risk un-screwing the pinion nut. The main brake was the lever outside the body, on the right.

As I, like most, was born with only one right arm, driving in traffic will keep you busy. The brake lever, gear lever [R/H side], and ign. retard ALL need the simultaneous attention of your right hand. If hand signals are required - and they were once compulsory - it's even more fun. [That's a left-hand wave, notice]. My right arm still gives me trouble. A wonderful Edwardian motor car, though.

well diego, i can't tell you the whole story but suffice to say a shift lever and clutch,brake and throttle pedals are relatively [cough] recent assignments for certain automotive activities....i'll just give you a few examples from my own experience....1908 cadillac...throttle; a lever on the steering column...brake; pedal on the right...low gear; pedal on the left....high gear;giant lever on the outside of the car-push foreward to engage ..pull back for neutral...pull all the way back for reverse [or an assist to weak brake pedal]..as all the gears are planetary such activities could be done without the benifit of a clutch....to add to the worry, the spark advance/retard lever was opposite the gas and oh , the steering was on the right side of the car....to start the one GIANT cylinder you inserted a cast iron crank into a hole on the left side of the body and cranked counter-clockwise!...all well and good if it was the only car you drove...

1914 model t ford....again throttle and spark advance levers on the steering column [steering on the right this time] three pedals confront you...read carefully now..the LEFT pedal was the gear pedal;forward=low gear... holding the pedal mid stroke was neutral...let pedal spring all the way back= hi gear...now the pedal on the right is the brake-actuating a contracting band in yet another planetary transmission...now the MIDDLE pedal is reverse..to make it work one must push the gear pedal into "neutral",hold it there and push reverse with the other foot....the t ,with it's crank on the front is turned clockwise....one advantage...hit ANY pedal at speed and you will slow down.

1930 GP bugatti...RHD..normal pedal arrangement...central detached gearbox with inside shift gate on the drivers right but the lever pokes out a hole in the body to essentially become an outside shift lever..[oh yeah..h-pattern...1st,right/back...2ed straight forward...3rd;thru the gate to the right and pull back...4th; push straight ahead]

and then there's all the odd shift patterns...with cars with 2,3,4,5,and 6 speeds i often have to tape the right pattern to the dash...

Just to be different though...1935 Alvis Speed 20 SC.........RHD...central throttle..ball gear lever in the center ..to the drivers left...

I am absolutely assured by one who knows an awful lot about the Sharknose cars that they all had right-side throttle pedals - not central - and that all carried the necessary cable bracket welded to a right-side chassis tube by the driver's shin. If you think about it, arranging the throttle linkage from a centre pedal to a rear-mounted engine could become an unnecessarily complicated procedure. It was easier just to stick the accelerator pedal on the right.

Ofcourse standardisation of controls would be too much like commonsense. Henrys T scares me, that just as a passenger!
Though even in more modern times some cars have left hand change and some right [for a RH drive car]. Then some have a funny gear lever out of the dash, some are column, most are on the floor. Now we have flappy paddle gears too. Automatics all seem to go out of their way to be different, generally to the point of stupidity. Some have overdrive as a button on the console. Weird!
Manuals use all sorts of gear patterns, as was said put a map on the dash! Especially to find reverse. Often the first gear required to get the car out of its parking position.
The basic controls, wipers, turn signals. Often in different locations, and work backwards to each other. eg low speed wipers down or up. Washers pull towards you or push a button on the end of the stick.
That is yet alone heater/AC controls and the radio. Bonnet release, boot release, petrol door release. Seat back and forwards lever. etc No two manucturers put them in the same place. The classic here in Oz is Commodore, the boot release is in the bloody glovebox, lean to the left open glovebox and push yellow button! Though so many Euro cars have the bonnet release still on the left side. That is plain junk manufacture.

As an aside I drove down through inner NSW a couple of weeks ago and most town seem to park rear to the kerb. To me that is silly, and explains to an extent why so many NSW cars have minor rear damage. Here in SA with wide streets it is 45deg nose to kerb, as is Victoria. Though these days all that style parkig is going as they have to make the streets narrower, or build a bicycle road. Which few cyclists actually use!