Wags, I think the problem is that Obama has stated time and time again that he's going to be a moderate, but he's repeatedly shown that he is a socialist hellbent on bankrupting the country, and getting American's hooked on social entitlements. Most Conservatives believe that he will be brazened by his being elected to a 2nd term, and push even harder for an even more socialist/entitlement Country and it will both bankrupt us, and further get our electorate addicted to social entitlements, and he will make it even harder to get us off of them and onto the right path.

I hope you're right, that Obama will be committed to balancing the budget, reducing the National debt, that he will go forward and solve the lopsided trade agreement with China, but all evidence suggests that he lacks both the capability and desire to accomplish any of those three very important things.

November 7th, 2012, 5:55 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

Joe,

1: As a devout Christian, my comments were not made out of my faith, but out of the reality of my American citizenship.

2: As a devout Christian, the Lord is our only hope.

3. What you do not know, and it is because I haven't shared it here, but this very morning I "saw" this nation heading into captivity. Proverbs 22:7, "the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." By our own reckless spending, which has been intensified this last 4 years, we are now subject to those who own our debt. Having said that, what I've seen today is that we will be heading into some very dark times, the entitlement class who so willingly voted for more of the same will suffer, the working class who is suffering now, will suffer even more until we choose to give up and join the entitlement class because its easier, and any hold outs will suffer severe persecution and difficulties because they are not openly walking into the arms of the motherland. Those in power will maintain power, and create all the policies that they deem appropriate, and will sidestep our Constitution according to their needs. By the way, there are no elections and or checks or balances to stop them. Judges have been placed or voted in that already side with the administration, and the House of Reps is the only bastion of common sense left for now, and those who are seeking to turn this ship around will be demonized for obstructionism, to the point that they will be forced out of office by the Liberal media exciting the entitlement class that wants more from Uncle Sam.Throughout this difficult time, Christians will step up and utilize resources and skills that have been given to them and funded in a wide variety of ways, including divine supply, or even the same governmental programs created to "help" people. The prosperity of America will be removed, and the desperation will set in. I'm not saying it will be a "REVOLUTION" type society, but it will be very hard for people in this country, and harder still for those who will not go into the system. Having said that, God will make himself known to those who are seeking him, and they shall see that safety, security, provision, and health are found in him.

Think of it like this, a lamp isn't needed for the daytime, but at night when all is dark, that is when the light is needed. So the possibility exists that those who need to see to believe, won't be able to see until the "Light of the World" shines in the darkness.

I know I sound extreme and maybe even crazy, but I'm just sharing what I saw.

Initially I was IRATE, and filled with anger at the stupidity of people that would vote for this man, BUT as others have said, it was ultimately Coke vs Pepsi. The only difference was the Pepsi had a BETTER moral base, ethics, and integrity deserving of the position, as compared to one who's proven to lie, mislead, and facilitate the death of his own people through abortion, and refusing to authorize the appropriate airstrikes needed during military conflicts (benghazi). Moot points all now!

I had to release my anger, and once I saw the above developing, I realized that the cliff is inevitable, but God needs His people to go through this as well, to provide that beacon of hope, and help guide people to the Savior. I have also seen much more, but I'll leave this with you for now.....

Now where did I leave my straight jacket.........

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

November 7th, 2012, 5:59 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

Stallion wrote:

It seems that not long ago that conservatives on this site claimed that there was no way Obama is reelected. Boom!

As soon as Romney was named the candidate I specifically said that Obama WOULD get re-elected, BOOM!.

He may be more to the left than you would like, but statements like the above are as far fetched as me claiming Bush was a facist.

November 7th, 2012, 6:15 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Joe Lombardi

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 3955Location: Davison Mi

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Joe,

1: As a devout Christian, my comments were not made out of my faith, but out of the reality of my American citizenship.

2: As a devout Christian, the Lord is our only hope.

3. What you do not know, and it is because I haven't shared it here, but this very morning I "saw" this nation heading into captivity. Proverbs 22:7, "the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." By our own reckless spending, which has been intensified this last 4 years, we are now subject to those who own our debt. Having said that, what I've seen today is that we will be heading into some very dark times, the entitlement class who so willingly voted for more of the same will suffer, the working class who is suffering now, will suffer even more until we choose to give up and join the entitlement class because its easier, and any hold outs will suffer severe persecution and difficulties because they are not openly walking into the arms of the motherland. Those in power will maintain power, and create all the policies that they deem appropriate, and will sidestep our Constitution according to their needs. By the way, there are no elections and or checks or balances to stop them. Judges have been placed or voted in that already side with the administration, and the House of Reps is the only bastion of common sense left for now, and those who are seeking to turn this ship around will be demonized for obstructionism, to the point that they will be forced out of office by the Liberal media exciting the entitlement class that wants more from Uncle Sam.Throughout this difficult time, Christians will step up and utilize resources and skills that have been given to them and funded in a wide variety of ways, including divine supply, or even the same governmental programs created to "help" people. The prosperity of America will be removed, and the desperation will set in. I'm not saying it will be a "REVOLUTION" type society, but it will be very hard for people in this country, and harder still for those who will not go into the system. Having said that, God will make himself known to those who are seeking him, and they shall see that safety, security, provision, and health are found in him.

Think of it like this, a lamp isn't needed for the daytime, but at night when all is dark, that is when the light is needed. So the possibility exists that those who need to see to believe, won't be able to see until the "Light of the World" shines in the darkness.

I know I sound extreme and maybe even crazy, but I'm just sharing what I saw.

Initially I was IRATE, and filled with anger at the stupidity of people that would vote for this man, BUT as others have said, it was ultimately Coke vs Pepsi. The only difference was the Pepsi had a BETTER moral base, ethics, and integrity deserving of the position, as compared to one who's proven to lie, mislead, and facilitate the death of his own people through abortion, and refusing to authorize the appropriate airstrikes needed during military conflicts (benghazi). Moot points all now!

I had to release my anger, and once I saw the above developing, I realized that the cliff is inevitable, but God needs His people to go through this as well, to provide that beacon of hope, and help guide people to the Savior. I have also seen much more, but I'll leave this with you for now.....

Now where did I leave my straight jacket.........

but you ignore one major idea as a christian...Gods plan can not be deviated from.....even by Obama.....so like I said keep the faith.

I also challenge you to view your own posts from 4 years ago. you will find them strikingly similar, and yet here we still stand. food in our belly's clothes on our backs roofs over our heads and no chains on our wrist.

I agree that an Obmama re-election sucks, but the sky is not falling. we MUST endure and make plans to make things better on our own. or else you will be saying the same thing again in another 4 years.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

November 7th, 2012, 6:26 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Proverbs 22:7, "the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." By our own reckless spending, which has been intensified this last 4 years, we are now subject to those who own our debt.

First, I like this proverb - thanks for sharing...

Second, way to look at this through your own Red colored glasses. Take a look at how the debt increased (% change) under the last bunch of presidents:

Now, as I've pointed out a million times it really just comes down to Coke vs. Pepsi and both parties have obviously failed.

Now do you really think the spending has "intensified" over the last four years OR do you just want to believe that.

Follow the proof/evidence for yourself my friend (rather than letting others define it for you), it is the only path to the truth! As in other cases, if you start by looking for something you are going to believe it - true or not...

Joe, the only thing that is key to both 4 years ago and present day is time frame. I am not in control of the timeline, but I saw the character of the man then, and it's even worse now, so in determining a tree by it's fruits this one stinks. God is in control, and it's his time frame from which we all operate, so He calls the shots, I'm just sharing a generality that I saw this morning. Like I said I have more, but I didn't want to overwhelm anyone in a "non-Christian" thread. So if you'd like to move my stuff over, i don't mind.

Pablo: If you get a chance, check out the book of Proverbs. It is chock full of little wisdom nuggets like that one.

I'm curious about the math, because according to what I've seen:

Obama has spent more than ANY other President before him, no matter how many terms they served.

I will also say that I don't agree with bail outs, or union wallet padding, or any of the other programs. And this is beyond my understanding so I don't want to speak out of turn, but I will say this. That we are operating on a timeframe not our own. Those who have led us have been specifically chosen for us, to fit the plan, and it will play out according to the need.

My duty and difficulty is getting my perspective in line with the plan. I see things with human eyes and perspectives and it leads to emotional and mental struggles, UNTIL I get in line with the Lord. By submitting, and willfully choosing to continue to exemplify Him in all things, my life will face challenges and blessings as they arrive. It is up to me to wrestle with my emotions and bring them in line.

All said and done, we have but to wait and see what develops and it could be years out, or months. However, I'm getting the impression that the "cliff" is closer than we think.

Let me see if I can find something that I read a few years ago that may rock your world, and maybe not, but that's a choice you'll have to make. I'll be back, and can you help me with these buckles?

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

November 7th, 2012, 7:38 pm

Rob_Shadows

3rd Round Selection

Joined: December 25th, 2005, 6:19 amPosts: 1188

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

UK Lion wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

[Obama has] repeatedly shown that he is a socialist.

He really hasn't.

He may be more to the left than you would like, but statements like the above are as far fetched as me claiming Bush was a facist.

So...a government takover of a major industry isn't a socialist agenda? You do realize that's EXACTLY what the auto bailout was right? You ever look into who actually owns GM right now? But your right...he hasn't shown he's a socialist.

...and then there's the fact that he's admitted to Socialist views in the past, well before he was president. Barack Obama is a Socialist...it isn't slander, it isn't overreaction, it's simply the truth. We've seen the result of a major power built on Socialist economic principles...our Capitalist economy destroyed one in the cold war. Obama's views for the U.S economy are extremely similar to that of the former Soviet Union. Don't want to acknowledge or admit that's true? Fine don't. Doesn't change the fact that it is.

November 8th, 2012, 1:51 am

TheRealWags

Modmin Dude

Joined: December 31st, 2004, 9:55 amPosts: 12278

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

wjb21ndtown wrote:

Wags, I think the problem is that Obama has stated time and time again that he's going to be a moderate, but he's repeatedly shown that he is a socialist hellbent on bankrupting the country, and getting American's hooked on social entitlements. Most Conservatives believe that he will be brazened by his being elected to a 2nd term, and push even harder for an even more socialist/entitlement Country and it will both bankrupt us, and further get our electorate addicted to social entitlements, and he will make it even harder to get us off of them and onto the right path.

I hope you're right, that Obama will be committed to balancing the budget, reducing the National debt, that he will go forward and solve the lopsided trade agreement with China, but all evidence suggests that he lacks both the capability and desire to accomplish any of those three very important things.

Please provide / list exactly where Obama has pushed a true, factual Socialist and / or Marxist agenda. He has continued most of the same policies from the Bush admin. The only piece of legislation that is different is ObamaCare; what else do you have?

He may be more to the left than you would like, but statements like the above are as far fetched as me claiming Bush was a facist.

So...a government takover of a major industry isn't a socialist agenda? You do realize that's EXACTLY what the auto bailout was right? You ever look into who actually owns GM right now? But your right...he hasn't shown he's a socialist.

...and then there's the fact that he's admitted to Socialist views in the past, well before he was president. Barack Obama is a Socialist...it isn't slander, it isn't overreaction, it's simply the truth. We've seen the result of a major power built on Socialist economic principles...our Capitalist economy destroyed one in the cold war. Obama's views for the U.S economy are extremely similar to that of the former Soviet Union. Don't want to acknowledge or admit that's true? Fine don't. Doesn't change the fact that it is.

You do realize that it wasn't Obama who created the auto bailout, don't you? It was created under Bush.

There are plenty of things about Obama that are legitimate criticisms, but calling him a socialist simply isn't supported by facts. Here's the definition of socialism (from Merriam-Webster):

Definition of SOCIALISM1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

None of these has even remotely happened. The auto bailout prevented 1 major us automaker from declaring bankruptcy, and today the govt still has a roughly 30% stake in the company. Thy don't control the company's decisions or the means of production & distribution of the goods. Not to mention that Ford is private and doing just fine.

Even Obamacare isn't the a govt takeover. It's the govt enticing people to purchase insurance. Not from the govt; from insurance companies.

Like I said there are plent of legit reasons to disagree with Obama. Calling him a socialist isn't one of them. It's simply factually untrue.

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

November 8th, 2012, 10:48 am

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9589Location: Dallas

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

WarEr4Christ wrote:

I'm curious about the math, because according to what I've seen:

Obama has spent more than ANY other President before him, no matter how many terms they served.

The math works just fine. If Obama increased the debt from the previous administration by 41.4% - then of course he has spent more than ANY president before him. What you seem to imply here is that the previous presidents didn't spend more than ANY president before them and that simply isn't the case. Following the constant increases in debt, EACH president spent more than ANY before them. This doesn't make Obama unique, this makes him exactly the same. But we digress back to Coke and Pepsi once again.

What the figures do point out, if you are keeping scoreboard, is that the so-called fiscal conservatives of the GOP party actually increase our debt faster than the big gov't spending democrats.

Once again, your preconceived notions don't align with reality. Stop listening to right wing spin (or left wing spin if that happens to be your thing) and look at the facts. Both parties are responsible for the "fiscal cliff" you think is coming, blaming one party over the other is what continues to plague this country. You blame Obama/Dems/Pepsi, they blame Bush/Reps/Coke - how about we all take responsibility and actually solve this issue.

There are plenty of things about Obama that are legitimate criticisms, but calling him a socialist simply isn't supported by facts. Here's the definition of socialism (from Merriam-Webster):

Definition of SOCIALISM1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

None of these has even remotely happened. The auto bailout prevented 1 major us automaker from declaring bankruptcy, and today the govt still has a roughly 30% stake in the company. Thy don't control the company's decisions or the means of production & distribution of the goods. Not to mention that Ford is private and doing just fine.

Even Obamacare isn't the a govt takeover. It's the govt enticing people to purchase insurance. Not from the govt; from insurance companies.

Like I said there are plenty of legit reasons to disagree with Obama. Calling him a socialist isn't one of them. It's simply factually untrue.

This is what I've been trying to say all along, thank you.

Pablo wrote:

You blame Obama/Dems/Pepsi, they blame Bush/Reps/Coke - how about we all take responsibility and actually solve this issue.

Ding Ding Ding, thank you.

_________________

Quote:

Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right....

November 8th, 2012, 12:57 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

Here's a question that runs along the lines of what Pablo shared about mutual responsibility.

Let's say that we continue down this present path, and the fiscal cliff is breached and the bottom drops out of our economy. What happens next?

We've seen through the likes of Katrina and Sandy, how government can not save you, and lawlessness will run with abandon. So what happens? Does the UN come in and save the day? Does a foreign power step in to rescue the States of America (we're no longer united)? We've discussed what we should do about voting for milk, but let's take it the other way. Visit the dark side and see what happens if the constant thinning of our dollars value to the point where the economy goes belly up. I'm asking for those smarter than I to walk into the dark side of this reality of spend, spend, and oh yeah spend more, and see what happens when there's no more to spend. Thanks

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

November 8th, 2012, 1:22 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

Pablo wrote:

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Proverbs 22:7, "the rich rule over the poor, and the borrower is slave to the lender." By our own reckless spending, which has been intensified this last 4 years, we are now subject to those who own our debt.

First, I like this proverb - thanks for sharing...

Second, way to look at this through your own Red colored glasses. Take a look at how the debt increased (% change) under the last bunch of presidents:

Now, as I've pointed out a million times it really just comes down to Coke vs. Pepsi and both parties have obviously failed.

Now do you really think the spending has "intensified" over the last four years OR do you just want to believe that.

Follow the proof/evidence for yourself my friend (rather than letting others define it for you), it is the only path to the truth! As in other cases, if you start by looking for something you are going to believe it - true or not...

Pablo, the numbers used in that analysis are completely fraudulent. Bush "increased the debt" nearly $1trillion with the bailout money, but that money was left on the table for Obama to spend. Bush had it appropriated, but gave Obama the ability to spend it, in what was, IMO a completely class manuver. He COULD have done what a lot of Democrats and "lame duck" presidents do, and handed that money out to his chronies. Instead he said that "Obama is going to be your president in coming months, and he should have this money at his disposal for how he thinks the country should be ran."

Go back and check your facts. Take $1 trillion off of Bush's tab and place it on Obama's tab and see how it effects your numbers. Then go back and figure that Obamacare is supposed to add something like $1.3 trillion dollars to the national debt over the next 10 years, and see what that does to Obama's spending numbers. Yea, I'd say that spending has intensified 10 fold under Obama.

November 8th, 2012, 4:10 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Obama vs. Romney

Touchdown Jesus wrote:

Rob_Shadows wrote:

UK Lion wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

[Obama has] repeatedly shown that he is a socialist.

He really hasn't.

He may be more to the left than you would like, but statements like the above are as far fetched as me claiming Bush was a facist.

So...a government takover of a major industry isn't a socialist agenda? You do realize that's EXACTLY what the auto bailout was right? You ever look into who actually owns GM right now? But your right...he hasn't shown he's a socialist.

...and then there's the fact that he's admitted to Socialist views in the past, well before he was president. Barack Obama is a Socialist...it isn't slander, it isn't overreaction, it's simply the truth. We've seen the result of a major power built on Socialist economic principles...our Capitalist economy destroyed one in the cold war. Obama's views for the U.S economy are extremely similar to that of the former Soviet Union. Don't want to acknowledge or admit that's true? Fine don't. Doesn't change the fact that it is.

You do realize that it wasn't Obama who created the auto bailout, don't you? It was created under Bush.

There are plenty of things about Obama that are legitimate criticisms, but calling him a socialist simply isn't supported by facts. Here's the definition of socialism (from Merriam-Webster):

Definition of SOCIALISM1: any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private propertyb : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state3: a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

None of these has even remotely happened. The auto bailout prevented 1 major us automaker from declaring bankruptcy, and today the govt still has a roughly 30% stake in the company. Thy don't control the company's decisions or the means of production & distribution of the goods. Not to mention that Ford is private and doing just fine.

Even Obamacare isn't the a govt takeover. It's the govt enticing people to purchase insurance. Not from the govt; from insurance companies.

Like I said there are plent of legit reasons to disagree with Obama. Calling him a socialist isn't one of them. It's simply factually untrue.

Obama handled the PURCHASE of GM through the "organized bankruptcy." He LITERALLY MADE GM "Government Motors," Bush had nothing to do with that, and that IS socialist. Obama also HANDED 30% of GM to the LABOR UNIONS, a quasi-governmental agency, FOR NO REASON AT ALL. This NEVER would have been done in any bankruptcy court. Obama also over-saw the largest increase of food stamps and social entitlements in DECADES, also a socialist policy. And finally, Obama SOCIALIZED 18% of our economy when he socialized, not "incentivized," SOCIALIZED health care.

If you think that the Bill that passed was an incentive program, you are part of herd of sheep... That program will have a majority of us on Obamacare in the next few years. Congrats!!!