Anyone who thinks Spriests are viable in PvE or PvP is either trolling or oblivious.

Anyone who thinks Spriests aren't viable in PvE or PvP is either trolling or oblivious. - fixed

Yes, when you're decked out in full H or HWF gear... the differences become really apparent. But otherwise, shadow brings so much healing utility to a raid that it's not funny. If anything, the real issue is that we do so much random passive healing between VE, divine star/halo and keeping ourselves up with DP... we help make any non-absorb healer look like crap.

I'd love to see a warlock or mage help top off a raid just before or just after a Swelling Pride for example.

Last edited by Blackmorgrim; 2014-02-10 at 07:28 PM.

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Blackmorgrim#1728 (H2P:<H2P username> in msg box)
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Anyone who thinks Spriests aren't viable in PvE or PvP is either trolling or oblivious. - fixed

Yes, when you're decked out in full H or HWF gear... the differences become really apparent. But otherwise, shadow brings so much healing utility to a raid that it's not funny. If anything, the real issue is that we do so much random passive healing between VE, divine star/halo and keeping ourselves up with DP... we help make any non-absorb healer look like crap.

I'd love to see a warlock or mage help top off a raid just before or just after a Swelling Pride for example.

If I wanted to top the raid off, I'd spec Holy.

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But then, I suppose (from a design point of view) it goes back to if you only want to DPS, why are you choosing a single spec of a hybrid over a pure dps class?

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Blackmorgrim#1728 (H2P:<H2P username> in msg box)
"People are not persuaded by what we say but rather by what they understand." - Fortune cookie

I'd love to see a warlock or mage help top off a raid just before or just after a Swelling Pride for example.

Ever heard of Healthstones?

But yes, shadow is viable, at least for PvE. Below average for 25-man, suboptimal for 10-man, but viable. I don't know about 25, but at least on 10-man boomkins can heal just as much, and shaman can heal even more than shadow without the dps loss. Shadow's off-healing as utility is highly overrated and does not make up for its dps deficiencies. H Thok is the only fight I can think of where you might actually want a shadow priest's utility.

And before you ask, I would define "Viable" in pvp by saying "In this comp, would including a shadowpriest make it better?", and the answer is always NO.

That wouldn't be the definition of viable. That's the exact definition of OPTIMAL. Viable is can it be used and do well? Yes, Shadow can. Can you replace an spriest with a different class and do better with equal talent/gear? Yup, probably.

Most of the time to rank very high on a fight you have to cheese the game/class mechanics, that's how almost everyone is doing it.

That's just wrong.. Maybe the absolute outliners does this. But if you go and check the top rankings, there's a reason why the same people are top on pretty much every fight. And I can tell ya, it's not cause they're "cheesing" every fight. It's solid play.

That's just wrong.. Maybe the absolute outliners does this. But if you go and check the top rankings, there's a reason why the same people are top on pretty much every fight. And I can tell ya, it's not cause they're "cheesing" every fight. It's solid play.

there are hardly any encounters in this tier where you can rank from just solid play, most of the high ranks are coming from good rng with trinkets and gear mechanics as well as a tactic thats lets you rank, not solid play.

there are hardly any encounters in this tier where you can rank from just solid play, most of the high ranks are coming from good rng with trinkets and gear mechanics as well as a tactic thats lets you rank, not solid play.

So again, if you go and check the rankings.. All of the same names appearing at top is is purely good rng, "gear mechanics" (meaning?) and the fact that they all just happen to use a tactic that optimizes their shadow priests damage?

Tell you what, I've gotten many top rankings, and my raid don't give two shits about it.. We haven't tailored any stategies for my needs. I haven't been favored any gear. Rng, maybe.. But wouldn't that be strange considering the consistent high rankings? Or am I (and all of the other consistently high ranking priests) just that lucky?

Rng might play a factor for the very top. But to say that "most of the top rankings is from cheesing" is just wrong. (When I say top, I mean top 20ish. Not top 3)

On that try i had 11.6% uptime on Toxic power. Thats very bad. So on a bad try i was beaten by 1 person in the raid.

The only fight where i fall behind is Iron Jugger because of the pure single target. On the rest of the fights i can win or be in the top 3-5 all the time.

You ranked on one fight in those logs you linked and that fight was Mal w/ ToF cheese, how is that impressive? I'm not saying you're not a good player, but going around saying people need to "learn to play Shadow" because the rest of your raid isn't as good as you is meaningless. Ever look at some of Drye's best logs? He's often destroyed by the rest of his group even when he puts up a high rank and that's because everyone and their mother in his group are ranking every fight.

So again, if you go and check the rankings.. All of the same names appearing at top is is purely good rng, "gear mechanics" (meaning?) and the fact that they all just happen to use a tactic that optimizes their shadow priests damage?

Tell you what, I've gotten many top rankings, and my raid don't give two shits about it.. We haven't tailored any stategies for my needs. I haven't been favored any gear. Rng, maybe.. But wouldn't that be strange considering the consistent high rankings? Or am I (and all of the other consistently high ranking priests) just that lucky?

Rng might play a factor for the very top. But to say that "most of the top rankings is from cheesing" is just wrong. (When I say top, I mean top 20ish. Not top 3)

just a quick glance, you're just padding everywhere which a lot of people can do but they dont due to, fight mechanics meaning things like knockback on malkorok, I have also had a fair amount of ranks way higher than yours until I quit my priest for warrior but I never found them impressive cause they really didnt come from solid play and mostly from just padding on useless adds and abusing mechanics rest of the raid didnt do/care about and it was also 25 man which has a way more competitive scene when it comes to top players. Thing that makes it look embarrassing is that youre boasting about ranks for encounters where you took advantages of useless shit that doesnt even matter but on encounters where you can not actually do that you arent doing anything impressive at all, bottom line is: thread topic is derailed cause people are fishing for compliments yay?

You ranked on one fight in those logs you linked and that fight was Mal w/ ToF cheese, how is that impressive? I'm not saying you're not a good player, but going around saying people need to "learn to play Shadow" because the rest of your raid isn't as good as you is meaningless. Ever look at some of Drye's best logs? He's often destroyed by the rest of his group even when he puts up a high rank and that's because everyone and their mother in his group are ranking every fight.

Ofc im gonna cheese Malkorok to do better dps, everyone does it.
And the fact that im ranking higher than Drye means nothing?

I am going after ranks, means i play to get them. I ranked 3 on Malkorok on that rank and you can check all my ranks. I am always in the top.
Sure im padding on some bosses but most of them arent padding. Sure i Mind Sear the adds on Sha of Pride and Immerseus but thats needed if you want a high rank on Proraiders.

The worst padding i do is doing dmg to the yeti on Thok.

On bosses like Iron Jugg there is a limit to the dps you can do if you dont get lucky with your trinket proccs.

just a quick glance, you're just padding everywhere which a lot of people can do but they dont due to, fight mechanics meaning things like knockback on malkorok, I have also had a fair amount of ranks way higher than yours until I quit my priest for warrior but I never found them impressive cause they really didnt come from solid play and mostly from just padding on useless adds and abusing mechanics rest of the raid didnt do/care about and it was also 25 man which has a way more competitive scene when it comes to top players. Thing that makes it look embarrassing is that youre boasting about ranks for encounters where you took advantages of useless shit that doesnt even matter but on encounters where you can not actually do that you arent doing anything impressive at all, bottom line is: thread topic is derailed cause people are fishing for compliments yay?

Wait, what? I didn't fish for compliments. Couldn't give two shits about what you think of me ^^ I was merely responding to the guy saying all top ranks is a result of cheeseing.. I used myself to compare, as I don't know the others situation or how they're being treated in raids?

What is all this padding that I am apparently doing? To me, the definition of padding is doing "worthless" damage. Damage that does not contribute to the kill. Please point out ONE situation where this is being done in my logs? With the exception of paragons where I multi dot for DI (for an inside guild discussion might I add)

I have to thank you for your contribution to the discussion btw. Personal attacks are always nice. Also, please, do link these amazing logs of yours.