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Thursday, November 5, 2009

Patterns for Dudes

I loved all your varied responses to this post, where I asked if you knew any men who sew. I was also pleasantly surprised to get quite a few responses from readers who are men who sew.Commenter "d" had the following thoughts to share on the lack of male sewists:

Mostly it's cultural: men aren't supposed to sew, so they don't. And those who have some interest get discouraged by the treatment they get from people like the clerks at fabric stores (who look at me like they think I'm going to rob the place, until they get used to me.). And the *total lack* of decent patterns for men's clothing.

Interesting, eh? I think there are some good points here, even though I'm a humorless old feminist who bristles a bit at men complaining about getting poor treatment because of their gender. But I see what d is saying . . . we live in a culture that has certain expectations of traditional masculinity, and those expectations do not include being interested in sewing.

But what I really liked about his comment was the point that men's patterns suck. From what I've seen out there, I would have to agree. Even vintage patterns for men are pretty boring (though their envelope illustrations are unintentionally hilarious, usually involving pipes and ascots - or both!).

From what I've observed about contemporary men's pattern collections, they are either:

1) Boring.

2) Containing a highly disproportionate ratio of vests and Hawaiian shirts. (Fun fact: of the 12 patterns for men that Simplicity offers, 6 of them include a vest. That's a whopping 50% vest rate!)

3) Um . . . whatever all this is.

But, let's face it, men's clothes are just not so exciting in general, unless you get into advanced tailoring and custom flourishes. But perhaps I'm showing my gender bias here. What do you all think about the state of patterns for dudes?

Perhaps it's something to do with the fact that women's clothes have to fit in so many more places than men's do? By which I mean, I can never ever find dresses that fit my shoulders/bust/ribcage/waist/hips/bum - whereas most of my male friends find it much easier, having just (in their words not mine) shoulders/waits/hips to fit in. Besides the fact, apart from tailored shirts, when do men wear close-fitting clothes that aren't stretch-fit in some way? The conclusion of a conversation with a male friend just the other day was that it is easier for men to find clothes that fit (though not necessarily clothes they like...).

Of course this doesn't take into account that people sew their own clothes because they *like* to, rather than that they feel they *have* to to get a personal fit (without paying an expensive tailor's bill...)

I hope that doesn't seem disrespectful to your male readers, Gertie - I reckon anyone who wants to sew should have a go, male or female!

Methinks Mr. A in the first pattern is wearing his man-girdle too tight.

I think there is a real bias towards men sewing. My MIL sews professionally--upholstery and the like--and they have a grandson who wanted a sewing machine but his father emphatically said no every time. She got him one for Christmas and taught him how to use it and he made a quilt. My husband has expressed an interest in sewing. I want to teach my eldest boy how to sew on the machine (he already hand embroiders) but there are very few patterns available that are worth anything for him or my husband to sew. Men's clothes are just not as interesting as women's with a bazillion different styles of necklines, hemlines, etc. I think that definately plays a part.

On a completely unrelated note, I was inspired by your crinoline posts and dug out my grandmother's old crinoline and sewed a new elastic into the waist and am wearing it today under a long gored denim skirt. I feel saucy and pretty. : )

I'm about to do my first mens pattern...starting today. I haven't even really been interested in mens patterns. Boys yes, not mens. But maybe now I'll do some more research into the missing link that is fashionable mens patterns.

It's tough for the menfolk who sew methinks. But it's true--my husband can walk into any store and find something that fits him really well whereas I can shop for days without finding 1 thing I can wear only on the basis of fit.

It's harder to find good patterns for boys too. Before I had my son (we didn't know what we were having) I was getting all excited about sewing little dresses and such for the baby. When my son was born I wasn't disappointed but I figured out pretty quickly that there aren't too many decent boys' patterns out there (and I won't pay for really expensive ones when I know darn well that that cute little jumper that I make will be worn for like 2 months tops) and worse yet it's tougher to find boy-friendly fabric too.

my husband is one of the men who truly can't find anything that fits him in a store. we've spent countless hours searching through every store in the area, hoping to find somewhere that caters to long, tall, skinny lanky men - but no such place exists. he does have to think about fitting in more places than most men - shoulder, lower back (most shirts make awful tents), chest, sleeve length, hips, thighs & bum, leg length... and he's not the only man i know with these issues, and other fit related things (chest/neck/arm length differing from standard sizes, needing a 29" waist, or other odd waist/length ratios. everything i see in the stores lately has had a larger waist size than length. 40x30? word.) i think it's easy to group men into one big category of being able to wear anything, finding things easily, simply because many of them are like that - they just don't care. but then, i know plenty of women who are the same. they don't care about fit so much as they do the size. "oh, just grab me a size 6" isn't all that different from "i need a 32X34". i see plenty of women who look like they just grabbed something without ever trying it on. there are plenty of men out there who do care how they look, and how things fit them. maybe not as many as there are women, i don't know. i suppose many of those men are the ones with the money and desire to get things tailor-made, or custom fit. sadly, there's not much of an effort made in the ready to wear men's clothing to fit all men's bodies...and the pattern world isn't any different.it's completely frustrating to me that there are no decent men's patterns. the only one i've ever found that my husband liked the fit of once made was a pants pattern from the 70's - slim fitting and long, just needed a bit of tweaking to get rid of the 70's silhouette. i wish i knew more about men's pattern making, and altering for men's bodies, but i'm learning.anyway - between the two of us, it's near impossible to shop ready-made things. i want to enroll in a fashion design course just so i can learn pattern making and better fitting and sewing techniques so i can make my husband clothing he likes that looks nice on him.he's not too keen on the idea of sewing clothing himself yet, not comfortable enough with the machine, but he's been making "cute stuff" for our friends' baby :) and learning embroidery - sashiko techniques this week. i feel like a proud mamma - "look what my husband made this week!!" :)

In the first photo (the vintage McCall's), View D....is that Ronald Reagan?!!??!! lol!

I would think it very cool if I met a man who sewed. I know of one man on Pattern Review who sews and I enjoyed reading his reviews. He hasn't posted anything in a while, though. I know of male knitters who have come out of the closet thanx to Ravelry, so maybe there are a ton of male sewers out there just waiting to come out. I say, who cares what people think. My mom is a welder and also sews on occasion. She gets odd comments about her welding sometimes, but she just retorts, "Be glad I don't have my torch in my hands right now."

Interesting about men allegedly getting treated badly while fabric shopping. I suggest these fabric-discriminated dudes plan a shopping trip to Los Angeles.

There are plenty of men in the garment district in Los Angeles. Both sale people and shop owners, as well as customers. I've never seen a guy get dissed while shopping.

I never assume that just because someone (male or female) is shopping for fabric, that it means they can sew. Shopping for fabric does not reflect their level of skill. They're simply shopping for fabric. Who knows what they'll use it for? I don't think sales people care here. They're just pushing product (and believe, at the garment district they PUSH IT--I've had people chase after me down the street offering a lower price after I walked out of the shop).

d - Where do you live? If you want to shop in a male-friendly environment, come to L.A. About half the staff at the places I shop (F&S, Michael Levine, Mood, etc..) are male. And, the ration is usually about 60/40 female to male as far a shoppers go. But, I admit, I live in la-la land which is far from normal for everyone else. :-)

In my sewing classes, we always had one guy (not the same guy, but there was always one guy) and the complaint was always that there wasn't enough fashion-forward patterns. They'd make the basics we'd learn in class but wanted to learn advanced tailoring so that they could take their sewing to the next level. I think that's the difference.

One of the guys from my SnB group makes fabulous shirts for him, his husband & his son. (He makes all sorts of clothes for his son, but the shirts really stand out to me.) So, it is possible. He seems to have a real knack at not only finding patterns but finding the right fabrics to really make those clothes special.

I agree mens patterns aren'r very interesting, but lets be real what do they wear other than just a few items? I for one appreciate that my pattern library for my guy is small and has little variation. 3 piece suit, shirt, and pants/shorts combo. I can make his entire wardrobe out of those few patterns. And he's not compaining.

This is interesting! I know I've heard my dad complain about shopping for shirts, because so many include room for a pot belly he does not have.

I'm curious though, what are the patterns that doesn't exist that men want to see? It seems like, since there are so many garment options for women, style for men is more about how they make the most out of a bottom and a top, with possible accessories like a vest, or for less formal wear, a jacket.

Most men can walk into a store and buy clothes that sort of fit. A pair of trousers with the right waist, and of the right length, say. But men's clothing fits like flour sacks. Trousers wretchedly baggy at the knees, shirts that huge, coats with monstrously huge armscyes. It's pretty pitiful, but it's what men are told they want. And if you're a shape stores don't cater to, it's even worse. I have long arms (36 inches from the center of my neck to the wrist), a giant neck, and I'm not overly tall (I'm 6') nor fat. I can find dress shirts and the like that fit, though it's not guaranteed except by mail-order. But sports shirts, sweaters, and so on are either to short in the sleeves (and often don't fit my neck) or the sleeves fit, and I can hide a small horse under them.

As for what I'd like to see? A decent pattern for blue jeans. (Kwiksew has one that's not awful. It's just bad. ) Some trouser patterns that are for humans, and not whatever it is the ones available are drafted for (all the commercial trouser patterns I'v looked at had straight tubes as legs; none of the RTW I've examined is made that way except for sweats.) Shirts that are more than just variations on dress shirts (Kwiksew 2777 is a decent men's dress shirt pattern. And it's easy to modify to vary the collar style, the pockets, the band, and to fix the sleeve length.) and which aren't western things. Outerwear. (I've got these things in my closet, they exist, why can't I buy patterns for them. I suspect the answer is "they don't sell")

Gertie isn't exaggerating when she says simplicity has 12 men's patterns. And three of them are for pajamas or boxer shorts. Vogue has 6. McCalls has very few. Kwik sew has about 20.

A man I used to work with made his wife's wedding dress. It was a beautiful vintage pattern in Emerald silk, bias-cut. He made himself a matching vest. Maybe he would have appreciated something more interesting to make for himself! After the wedding they cut up the clothes and sewed a quilt out of them together.

I too have just encountered the dearth of men's patterns. I can find 15 tuxedo style shirt patterns for myself, but what, maybe one or two for men?

I would love to sew my guy some shirts, 'cause I know I can make them nicer (maybe not cheaper, but nicer, darn it!) than the ones we buy for him...

I offered to make him a coat, but he was more interested in instant gratification, and was worried I'd hurt myself with corduroy an flannel (I had wrist/arm surgery not too long ago, and it still hurts from time to time)

I remember my mom making us parkas when I was a child and we lived in Alaska, so I *KNOW* patterns exist(ed)...I did some searching, and I did find some reasonably decent men's (and women's) outerwear here: http://www.thegreenpepper.com/adults.html?id=KQkrQrPh - I especially liked the Polar Lodge and Frenchglen Barn Jackets

from the looks of the logo, these may have been the same patterns my mom used 30 years ago! Those back pack patterns took awfully familiar....!

I sew for men and women, mostly for the men, Hawaiian styled Aloha shirts and lava lavas. And where men may not have the same fitting issues, or as many, they still are concerned about fit. Quite often, I get 'I like a large in the shoulders but need it smaller in the waist' but not always in those terms. Non sewing men have a hard time expressing fit descriptions. I am about to start my first attempt at a sport coat, which I will test on my husband. If it works then I will make them in Hawaiian fabrics for my customers. Needless to say, I am anxious about all the pockets and lining. Ack.

I think you hit the nail on the head when you said there isn't a lot of interesting men's clothes out there. I feel sorry for dudes who want to wear something a little different (especially where I live) because I don't know where they'd find it. The internet, I suppose.-Andi x

My brother has the same problem as Katy's husband-- tall and super skinny. I told him I would be happy to try and make him some dress shirts to fit, but I need pattern advice! From the discussion here, it sounds like there really are no good patterns available.

D, or someone else, can you recommend a basic dress shirt pattern for a guy in his twenties? Bonus points if it's still in print :)

YES. Mainstream men's fashion is boring, I do agree, and sewing patterns are even worse. (the vests are hilarious!) I know plenty of guys who are very creative with their dress, stepping out those nonsensical gender binaries that society has imposed upon us all. But I do think that, for mainstream guys, fashion is pretty backward. I mean, women left the whole skirts only stuff behind so long ago. The 'rule' that we should only wear skirts now seems so ridiculously outdated. So why is it still unacceptable for men to reverse the role too and wear a skirt for example? Marc Jacobs does it! I mean, considering the bits between their legs, men are probably more suited to skirts than we are! But even outside of skirts and pants, most of men's fashion seems to centre around boring suits and shirts, and I think its a crying shame, because I'm sure plenty of guys out there would like to be creative with their clothing and get dressed up too, without feeling like it is a reflection on their sexuality or threat to their masculinity!

Guys, I wouldn't totally dismiss Burda patterns . . . Underneath their crazy Euro-gay styling (not that there's anything wrong with that!), I suspect you might be able to get some decent basic patterns out of them if you use your imagination.

Folkwear Patterns has a fair few interesting patterns for men, based on historic or ethnic clothing. On their Photo Gallery, they also highlight a few male sewists. Closer to home, my husband will mend and sew on buttons, but while he's interested in having handmade items (made by me: wool robe, Japanese hapi, Hawaiian shirts), he's not keen on learning to make them himself.

Having grown up with a father who was a sewing machine operator and then repairman at Ford Motor Company, and then started his own trim business after being laid off in 1979, which he still runs to this day, my mind does not draw gender lines when it comes to sewing. Most of the staff at his shop are males who all sew. Now, some would argue that it is different, since they are sewing in an industrial context, but to me, the act of sewing is sewing. One of his best employees is a guy who is just as capable of sewing a convertible top or creating a custom interior for a classic car as he is of sewing himself an outfit for Ren Faire, which he has done in the past. The skill is transferable.

In the past, men sewed clothing as tailors and they still exist today, albeit in lower numbers, I'm sure.

When I took a sewing lesson at a local shop a couple of months back, my own husband accompanied me and participated. We each made a potholder. He has hand-sewn in the past and is interested in machine sewing. I help him work on cars, so I guess we just cross the stereotypical gender lines in terms of hobbies/activities. ;)

But there is absolute truth in there being a shortage of good men's patterns out there. Perhaps that is a market niche that we need to fill!

@janelle: kwiksew 2777 is a pretty good pattern. It's got neck sizing that's separate from the body sizing (so you can wear a tie with it), and it's got provision to adjust the sleeve length, and the length of the body (so it can fit tall skinny people, or shortish fatish ones). It's also got reasonably clear instructions. I think the band that carries the button holes is too narrow as written, but that's easy to change if you want. Other than that, if it's put together carefully it looks good. It's in print.

@gertie: Burda appears to have some decent men's patterns, but I can't get them locally. (the store that's alleged to sell them has no more than a dozen patterns at a time, and never any mens.)

I soooo agree with you. Even little boys fashion is awful. Well, not awful, but very boring. I found that out when my son was born 35 years ago and there were about three different patterns to sew for him. He is now a fashionista, but how that happened I don't know.

Yes. After telling my husband I went to Mood yesterday he said "Why don't you make something for me?" My response, "Like WHAT?!?" Patterns are so boring out there. AND he doesn't fit into store bought clothing much, unless he finds the mysterious 'athletic' cut.

My lawyer husband has decided he wants to look like Mad Men just as much as me, so gave me a list of things he wanted me to make, which included the words "french cuffs," "knit v-neck," and "a cool blazer." Enough to send me running. Not only quite the sewing challenge, but I would have to make my own freaking patterns to satisfy his fashion sense.

ROFL, Gertie! Everytime I go to list a man's shirt pattern in my shop, I think, "Yup, it's a guy's shirt!". The differences from decade to decade are so subtle (with the exception of the 70s, perhaps! lol!), I found myself a tad over the top when I got to write up a man's shirt pattern from the 20s - wowee! - very long length and detachable collar, ohmigosh! Such excitement! LOL! What a hoot!

I'm a mother of two boys, so I can tell you that sewing male's clothes is often discouraging. At first,it is frustrating just to try to find a great pattern (I only like the marvelous Ottobre magazine and some Burda for the kids). The pattern's companies do not seem to realize that some women would like to sew for their husband and sons too. Why can't we find men's patterns as interesting as Ottobre does for boys? There are plenty of designers who designed great RTW clothes for men, why can't they collaborate to publish great patterns? I agree that sewing for a man implicate a lot of shirts and pants, but I would like that my husband may have good quality clothes too, not the crap from China.

(Gregg)I'm one of the guys who sews and I completely agree with this post. I started by sewing pillows, bedding and draperies but wanted to sew some of my own clothes. I've had a terrible time finding interesting patterns to sew. In the end, it looks like I'll just have to make the boring ones a little more interesting with unusual fabric combinations and unusual plackets or pleats. I've read the other comments about men's clothes being easier to fit and I must disagree. Fit is important for guys too, but most don't care as much about fit as women do (IMHO). I have 2 tailored shirts and they feel SO wonderfully different than my other RTW shirts. But as men, we grow up wearing RTW and really don't know anything else. The only things we ever get fitted are suits (some guys don't even do that!). That said, I'm ready about to cut out and sew my first long-sleeved shirt. I'm looking forward to it and to perhaps seeing an improvement in the patterns that are out there for men's clothes.

Hello. I am PABLo. Would like to tell you how I started. In my profession Image is Decisive !! , so when I wanted italian cut trousers and suits with waistcoat , and vintage suspenders. and nobody made it in town , I decided to star doing the things my self. In my opinion. a REL MAN, a real man that do not depend on a woman, got to be able of sew , wash , iron clothe, and clean his own sh.... at the toilet. !! And keep his masculinity at the same time . ! I am looking for patterns now, in pdf, in English or Spanish, and I can't found patterns in pdf anywhere. Can you help me with that? Utterly appreciated. 1 PABLO pablo.garay@aol.com

Hello. I am PABLo. Would like to tell you how I started. In my profession Image is Decisive !! , so when I wanted italian cut trousers and suits with waistcoat , and vintage suspenders. and nobody made it in town , I decided to star doing the things my self. In my opinion. a REL MAN, a real man that do not depend on a woman, got to be able of sew , wash , iron clothe, and clean his own sh.... at the toilet. !! And keep his masculinity at the same time . ! I am looking for patterns now, in pdf, in English or Spanish, and I can't found patterns in pdf anywhere. Can you help me with that? Utterly appreciated. 1 PABLO pablo.garay@aol.com