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Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

lol the fact that he won his court battle proves that he's guilty? Are you kidding me?

Not at all. The fact that he has been fighting the release of the transcriptions of those secret meetings shows he is trying to hide something, & yes....indicates guilt.
(if these were legitimate national energy meetings....& classified info was discussed....Why won't Cheney even let REPUBLICAN Senators (with security clearance) read the minutes of those meetings?)

I suggest that it is because criminal Restraint of Trade/Price Fixing tactics (felonies) were discussed with his oil company buddies, & that's what I would argue to the Magistrate.

Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

Please explain to the public what you do in the bedroom. If you don't you're hiding something and it's a sign of GUILT OF WRONGDOING.

"He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
"Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

Originally Posted by ScottD

The real reason Al-Queda hasn't attacked us since 9-11 is simple, thanks to the Bush Administration fear-mongering, we are still afraid of them, and we are willing to throw our morals out the window to not die at their hands. They know that attacking us won't be worth it. They won't try to attack us till we aren't afraid of them. So thank you Bush, not for torture, or Iraq, but for the true thing that made us safer, us being **** scared of Osama.

What a load of crap. Wanna know how a never-done-a-thing, two-memoir-writing, community organizer gets elected? Brain-washed non-thinking like this.

Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

With all the hand wringing & crying going on here.....I still haven't heard one good reason to not (at least) investigate possible crimes committed in our name.

If no crimes were committed that would vindicate Cheney & all CIA employees/contractors.

What are you so afraid of?

( & if you believe one administration shouldn't investigate the possible crimes of it's predecessor, Then you can't possibly be against ANYTHING Obama does! Since no one should ever investigate him, he (Obama) can comitt as many crimes as he wants, right?)

Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

No they were convicted for "conspiring to force confessions" not for torture.

Lol, the word "severe" is entirely subjective. It's a subjective qualifier thus whether or not waterboarding is torture is your own opinion. Subjective qualifiers have no place in legal definitions.

Again you seem to miss the other parts of the definition including threats to one's life. The other conditions are met making it torture. Not just extortion but civil rights violations. All this stemmed from his use of waterboarding. You also forget that in 1898 Maj Edwin Glenn was court martialed and convicted of the crime of torture for waterboarding people in the phillippines. Again there are cases we have that uphold waterboarding as torture. Now do you have any cases where it was prosecuted and it was not considered torture?

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

No it was a North Vietnamese POW not VC, he was protected by the Geneva Conventions, and entitled to POW status IE, he could not be subjected to ANY coercive or unpleasant treatment of ANY kind:

None of this changes the fact that he was prosecuted for waterboarding and torturing the prisoner.

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

"No physical or mental torture, nor any other form of coercion, may be inflicted on prisoners of war to secure from them information of any kind whatever. Prisoners of war who refuse to answer may not be threatened, insulted, or exposed to unpleasant or disadvantageous treatment of any kind."

We're talking US Law now again I posted what the US law definition of torture is and waterboarding falls into torture under our laws.

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

The Japanese were not convicted for just waterboarding people, while they were being waterboarded they were, also, beaten and burned with cigarettes and so much water was pored that their stomachs became descended and then they would proceed to beat on the descended stomach. That is not in any way the same thing that occurred at Gitmo.

And yet it was a component of it. Beatings have occured at Baghram and Gitmo along with Abu Ghraib. There have been 100 homicides that we know of with around 20 being investigated. Again just the facts.

Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

Originally Posted by Agent Ferris

"In a second compromise, officials said a more recent inadvertent disclosure resulted in references to Mrs. Plame in confidential documents sent by the CIA to the U.S. Interests Section of the Swiss Embassy in Havana.

The documents were supposed to be sealed from the Cuban government, but intelligence officials said the Cubans read the classified material and learned the secrets contained in them, the officials said."

Re: Cheney: Obama Should Be Debriefing, Not Investigating

With all the hand wringing & crying going on here.....I still haven't heard one good reason to not (at least) investigate possible crimes committed in our name.

If no crimes were committed that would vindicate Cheney & all CIA employees/contractors.

What are you so afraid of?

( & if you believe one administration shouldn't investigate the possible crimes of it's predecessor, Then you can't possibly be against ANYTHING Obama does! Since no one should ever investigate him, he (Obama) can comitt as many crimes as he wants, right?)

The CIA operates under more scrutiny than any other Federal agency. They are constantly under the eye of the executive branch, the attorney general, congress. What they do is largely secret to those outside the intelligence community, as it well should be. Interrogation techniques were legally analyzed by career attorneys in the justice department. When allegations were made they were investigated and at least one individual was punished. All oversight agents were notified of the methods and the results of the investigation. Guidelines were restated.

The reason to not investigate this now is that we are still at war and the investigation may further divulge methods, techniques and the identities of the people who use those methods and techniques. Also, the investigation has already taken place. As far as Cheney being criminal in his associations, no official legal action has been taken or is being evaluated. One can only assume it is an empty assertion. Further, Clinton was impeached for lying under oath in an investigation of he and Hilary's association with the Rose Law Firm and Whitewater where several people ended up in jail. Don't lie; don't go to jail.

Not only does it appear political for Holder to pursue this but it also appears that he is consciously trying to do exactly what I stated is the reason not to do this. Does that make him an agent of our enemies? You answer that.

The CIA are an agency that does "mission impossible" like missions for the people of the United States and does not deserve to be disrespected when they are doing their duty to the best of their ability. Dick Cheney is an honorable and patriotic man. No charges have been filed against him which have held water. He also does not deserve to be disrespected for doing his duty to the best of his ability.

I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.--Thomas Jefferson

What they do is largely secret to those outside the intelligence community, as it well should be.

So they are above the law?

Originally Posted by LowRevs

Interrogation techniques were legally analyzed by career attorneys in the justice department. When allegations were made they were investigated and at least one individual was punished. All oversight agents were notified of the methods and the results of the investigation. Guidelines were restated.

That's just Bush/Cheney talking points. Let's investigate to see if any of it is true.

Originally Posted by LowRevs

The reason to not investigate this now is that we are still at war and the investigation may further divulge methods, techniques and the identities of the people who use those methods and techniques.

We will always be "at war" against terrorism so no investigation can ever be done?

Originally Posted by LowRevs

s far as Cheney being criminal in his associations, no official legal action has been taken or is being evaluated.

Cheney thwarted all investigations you idiot! (& his chief of staff ....LIBBY...perjured himself to keep the truth from coming out. He (Libby) was scheduled to goto prison but Bush commuted his sentence)

Originally Posted by LowRevs

Not only does it appear political for Holder to pursue this but it also appears that he is consciously trying to do exactly what I stated is the reason not to do this. Does that make him an agent of our enemies? You answer that.

So no administration should EVER be investigated for crimes they may have committed? (including Obama??) We are now a Monarchy?

Originally Posted by LowRevs

The CIA are an agency that does "mission impossible" like missions for the people of the United States and does not deserve to be disrespected when they are doing their duty to the best of their ability.

Again, so they are above the law, right?

Originally Posted by LowRevs

Dick Cheney is an honorable and patriotic man. No charges have been filed against him which have held water. He also does not deserve to be disrespected for doing his duty to the best of his ability.

Dick Cheney is a draft dodging scumbag with the blood of thousands of American GI's on his hands. The "Man" deserves too hang for treason & war crimes!