Member

It baffles me that people continue to make spectacularly poor decisions on social media and then others act shocked when jobs are lost.

It’s been going on for years. If you say something stupid on a social media account, it goes viral, and you have any kind of link to your employer in your profile? Yeah, your ass is probably getting fired. It matters not if you use that pointless “comments are mine and not my employer’s” disclaimer (which is never valid).

You absolutely need to think shit through before you post (or respond to) stuff on social media. You need to consider how it’s going to be interpreted from almost every angle. Like it or not, if you’ve attached your employer to any of your online social media accounts, you need to think about your post’s effects.

This is why I almost never post political shit. I stay out of incendiary topics. I stick with video games and sports, and after 10+ years, I’ve avoided the dreaded “viral post”.

Termination for the woman in this case is SOP. She took a Twitter shit on a customer at best, and an important partner to the employer at worst. I don’t care what her excuse is for behaving so poorly; she willfully engaged (multiple times!) in an unacceptable manner and earned her dismissal.

The man’s case is a bit less clear-cut, though he probably should have just stayed out of it.

The generation of young men and women raised on social media has entered the workplace. As you suggest, what is truly astounding is that they don't even realise how objectionable their behaviour is. Echo chambers infuse these individuals with a sense of self-righteousness that it impervious to reason, humour and garden variety kindness (the important stuff about being a mensch).

Banned

The good news is that they are gone. As a long time Guild Wars 2 fan, these 2 were terrible writers. It does not surprise me that subpar writing abilities are also tied to a subpar human being. This woman got what she deserved, though I doubt she will learn her lesson.

Member

If I had to guess Arenanet probably wanted to fire her for a while, but they needed an excuse. This provided the perfect opportunity for that. I'm sure she's just a lovely person to deal with in real life as well.

Gold Member

Lol she used the phrase "speak truth to power" in the Kotaku interview - can't get much more deeply embedded in the psychobabble of modern sociology than that.

Additionally, while she complains about the "precedent" of getting fired over doing dumb shit on twitter, this event itself isn't a precedent. Getting fired due to dumb social media posts have been going on for years, for both sides of the political spectrum.

Member

So she did a thread on reddit explaining her view on development
youtuber with tiny 8k followers debates
she reacts the wrong way to critism
gamergate/kotakuinaction upvote gw2 subreddit and invade her twitter
another dev tries to defend her, says nothing wrong
both are fired

Member

Lol she used the phrase "speak truth to power" in the Kotaku interview - can't get much more deeply embedded in the psychobabble of modern sociology than that.

Additionally, while she complains about the "precedent" of getting fired over doing dumb shit on twitter, this event itself isn't a precedent. Getting fired due to dumb social media posts have been going on for years, for both sides of the political spectrum.

Member

So she did a thread on reddit explaining her view on development
youtuber with tiny 8k followers debates
she reacts the wrong way to critism
gamergate/kotakuinaction upvote gw2 subreddit and invade her twitter
another dev tries to defend her, says nothing wrong
both are fired

She posted a "thread" on Twitter (multiple tweets)
An ANet partnered content creator wanted to spark a discussion - this is not a simple youtuber for ANet, Deroir is one of the few people who have gotten an NPC in the game (just like Dulfy) because of their community work.
She plays the sexism and mansplaining cards for no reason.

There was no gg/kia involvement in the gw2 subreddit and not everyone who told her how wrong she was on Twitter is a gamergator. Deroir is known in the GW2 community and hence it is pretty normal for this topic to hit the frontpage without any KiA help. Where the hell does that even come from?

Member

She posted a "thread" on Twitter (multiple tweets)
An ANet partnered content creator wanted to spark a discussion - this is not a simple youtuber for ANet, Deroir is one of the few people who have gotten an NPC in the game (just like Dulfy) because of their community work.
She plays the sexism and mansplaining cards for no reason.

There was no gg/kia involvement in the gw2 subreddit and not everyone who told her how wrong she was on Twitter is a gamergator. Deroir is known in the GW2 community and hence it is pretty normal for this topic to hit the frontpage without any KiA help. Where the hell does that even come from?

Member

Additionally, while she complains about the "precedent" of getting fired over doing dumb shit on twitter, this event itself isn't a precedent. Getting fired due to dumb social media posts have been going on for years, for both sides of the political spectrum.

Exactly. People have been losing their jobs because of poor social media choices for YEARS, and still continue to make poor choices. Very few people seem to be understanding the trend, instead falling back on the typical excuses like “What about the First Amendment?” or “Freedom of speech?” or everyone’s favorite useless disclaimer, “My opinions are my own and not my employer’s”.

She chose that moment to get defensive and treat this person poorly. She chose to make it public, even if she claims that her Twitter account is her “space”— which it isn’t, of course; since the account wasn’t locked down, it was entirely public. It’s not hard to do what so many other professionals with social media accounts do and either ignore or at least civilly engage with mentions. This mention wasn’t bad, either; it’s just the one that apparently “broke the camel’s back” or whatever.

There’s no question that social media exchanges between fans/consumers and creators/developers in the video game biz can be shitty. Oftentimes it’s the fan or consumer being the aggressor, and that’s shitty in and of itself. That said, this is one case where the shoe is on the other foot— and termination makes sense. She acted like a jerk from the get-go, and continued to double down throughout. A public apology would have done nothing, and it’s questionable that a suspension would her to reconsider her social media choices. Let another employer deal with her social media outbursts and the negative publicity she’ll bring to the table.

I’d like to think that, maybe one day, people will learn how powerful social media is... and that they’ll stop making bad posting choices. Sadly, I don’t think that day is ever going to come. Firings will continue, excuses will remain, and the cycle will repeat.

Member

I suspect she was toxic person, who has gotten plenty of warnings before and this latest outburst was just a straw that broke camel's back.

And it's funny, but leftists always champion this kind of actions - banning on social media platforms, firing people for tweets etc and somehow they never realize that sooner or later the same thing will happen to them

Member

When are these self-entitled little babies going to grow up? I 100% stand behind firing everyone who uses Twitter to act like a petulant child and berate others, no matter the reason. These companies have every right to protect their brand and hold their employee to some sort of behavioral standards.

Member

Yeah, judging by her tweets I doubt she was a pleasure to work with either. The worst part of this is that Fries literally got sacrificed in order for arenanet to have a political shield against the "she would never have gotten sacked if she were a man" brigade.

Member

When are these self-entitled little babies going to grow up? I 100% stand behind firing everyone who uses Twitter to act like a petulant child and berate others, no matter the reason. These companies have every right to protect their brand and hold their employee to some sort of behavioral standards.

Exactly, when I first discovered the article I didn't feel bad about their decision whatsoever. I'm actually surprised it didn't happen a long time ago considering her unfortunate track record. People know who she is, what project she's connected to, etc. Publishers and developers have EVERY right to do away with someone that is a source of negativity, drama, or just gossip. No questions asked. If you're concerned about saying something that could be targeted, maybe have a personal private page with only family and friends.

Member

Exactly, when I first discovered the article I didn't feel bad about their decision whatsoever. I'm actually surprised it didn't happen a long time ago considering her unfortunate track record. People know who she is, what project she's connected to, etc. Publishers and developers have EVERY right to do away with someone that is a source of negativity, drama, or just gossip. No questions asked. If you're concerned about saying something that could be targeted, maybe have a personal private page with only family and friends.

Social media ISN’T private. Nothing on the internet is, even if you supposedly deem it to be. If you didn’t want people to hear/read what you have to say, you wouldn’t post it online.

Social media gives users one of the loudest microphones ever devised. Millions can hear you— and that exponentially raises the chances of pissing someone off if you have strong, potentially divisive opinions. Save those for a written journal or dinner conversations with family or trusted friends.

And I can’t stress enough that, unless it’s mandated for your job, you should NEVER associate your social media accounts with your employer. If you do, you’re begging for trouble. If you think that silly disclaimers about opinions being yours and not your employer’s are going to save you... think again.

This literally reads like a mafia threat. It'd be a shame if you woke up with a cow head in your bed, @ArenaNet @GuildWars2, wouldn't it? I mean damn.

I usually think twitter is the worst idea for sharing opinions, and this type of thing continues to prove it. I still don't like the idea that you should be fired for saying something stupid on your personal time, but this one crosses a weird line where it's directly related to work.

Member

Why are these considered news in video games? We don’t need to hear about every HR decision a game company makes. If an employee is acting like an asshole, then they get punished. It is the same in all industries.

Neo Member

Member

Why are these considered news in video games? We don’t need to hear about every HR decision a game company makes. If an employee is acting like an asshole, then they get punished. It is the same in all industries.

Member

It baffles me that people continue to make spectacularly poor decisions on social media and then others act shocked when jobs are lost.

It’s been going on for years. If you say something stupid on a social media account, it goes viral, and you have any kind of link to your employer in your profile? Yeah, your ass is probably getting fired. It matters not if you use that pointless “comments are mine and not my employer’s” disclaimer (which is never valid).

You absolutely need to think shit through before you post (or respond to) stuff on social media. You need to consider how it’s going to be interpreted from almost every angle. Like it or not, if you’ve attached your employer to any of your online social media accounts, you need to think about your post’s effects.

This is why I almost never post political shit. I stay out of incendiary topics. I stick with video games and sports, and after 10+ years, I’ve avoided the dreaded “viral post”.

Termination for the woman in this case is SOP. She took a Twitter shit on a customer at best, and an important partner to the employer at worst. I don’t care what her excuse is for behaving so poorly; she willfully engaged (multiple times!) in an unacceptable manner and earned her dismissal.

The man’s case is a bit less clear-cut, though he probably should have just stayed out of it.

That is just creepy. I thought firing was a bit harsh but understandable, plus we don't know if she had done anything outside of the biscuit thing while at work that had her job not give her anymore chances. The journalists that have been spinning this as her being the victim was a bit shocking when you see the whole conversation. But it was polygon and kotaku so not that surprising after all.

Member

.
There’s no question that social media exchanges between fans/consumers and creators/developers in the video game biz can be shitty. Oftentimes it’s the fan or consumer being the aggressor, and that’s shitty in and of itself.

But this has always been the case. Ask any 1 in customer service, you deal with rude customers all the time. It's your job to deal with them, not insult them. Likewise, store managers need to deal with the occasional jerk as well

Heck, I just watch the relatively famous jalapeno mac and cheese fight video that went viral a couple years ago. The drunk kid pushed the manager at least five times, and insulted him another hundred. The manager just politely took it, often with his hands in his pocket, simply firmly insisting he leaves the premises.

The point is, when you represent the company you work for, dealing with obnoxious customers in a mature, reasonable way is part of the job. And in this specific case, the customer was actually being extremely nice and wasn't obnoxious at all.

Insulting him and ridiculing him was out of line, and a completely fireable offense. She shouldn't have acted that way even if he was being a jerk. And her Twitter represents her company the second she listed her job on it. If I understand correctly she even went through the process of validating her employee status on her account.

People are talking about her job, but they forget that the company employs many other people. If an employee causes a loss of Revenue by pissing off their customers, that hurts all of the employees. That's money out of the owner's pocket. Not to mention, we never know what's going on behind the scenes and whether something is someone's first offense. If they were already hard to work with, this may be their fifth chance after a pile of warnings.

Member

Every time this happens it reminds me of that South Park episode about save spaces on the internet. Poor Butters must have worked overtime again.

I don't get it, she knows about tech, so she must have known how to behave on social media. I know a lot of comic artists like to insult their customers, but they also earn next to nothing, need go fund me to even cover the basics. If you don't want to end like them, be professional on social media or don't go on social media.

Member

Every time this happens it reminds me of that South Park episode about save spaces on the internet. Poor Butters must have worked overtime again.

I don't get it, she knows about tech, so she must have known how to behave on social media. I know a lot of comic artists like to insult their customers, but they also earn next to nothing, need go fund me to even cover the basics. If you don't want to end like them, be professional on social media or don't go on social media.

Member

Writing isn't as easy as it seems. It's also not as hard or mysterious as some people make it out to be.

If you're writing for a mass audience, you should expect commentary and criticism. Ideally, you have your say in what you produce and the audience gets to have its say. If you're fighting your audience or unable to tolerate feedback, you're probably doing it wrong.

Perhaps the worst thing a writer can be is dismissive toward (or hostile to) his audience.

Member

Hmmm, I dislike firing people over such things, especially if they're writers and not part of the PR apparatus. I can easily read, watch or play something written/directed/made by people I vehemently disagree with and who I think have acted badly. I really don't think they should've been fired, but then again, I feel like how antsy companies have become in the increasing environment of reactive outrage, I understand that they make these choices.
I wish companies were less sensitive over smaller issues and didn't bend at the earliest moments of finding someone problematic. This should be something that should concern across the aisles and it's a thing where people feel justified as long it doesn't happen to those on "your side", deluding themselves that they're fighting some "cultural war". It also seems like neither companies nor people have grasped how to deal with the new social mediums.
Another issue is also how the gaming press plays a part in this as well, a very disconcerting role where they'll frame things depending on their editorial's inclination.

“In this case, however, our employees could have chosen not to engage, and they could have brought the issue to the company, whereby we would have done everything we could to protect them.” (emphasis mine)

People on social media make conscious decisions when they post things and when they decide to engage with other users. This former employee made a bad judgment call if she could not engage the user with civility, and then repeatedly doubled down instead of backing down or even apologizing.

When you choose to engage someone, or when you choose to post on social media about overtly divisive subject matter, you’re consciously making the decision to put yourself and your employer (if you’ve identified the employer anywhere on social media) into compromised positions. That’s a personal choice, and you therefore empower your employer to take protective action if your social media activity leads to negative action or publicity from the social mediasphere.

Social media and its effects on employment are not new concepts. If people still don’t understand these concepts, then hard lessons must be learned. That said, I suspect that our writer in this case will learn anything from this incident, except that everyone is against her and the world is cruel.

Member

Publicly burning bridges with past employers always looks good when applying for new jobs. "Should we hire her? I mean, look at how she tore apart her last job." Unless a company is 100% committed to "choosing a side" and is willing to deal with the baggage that comes with this woman, the safest move is to not hire her.

Member

Publicly burning bridges with past employers always looks good when applying for new jobs. "Should we hire her? I mean, look at how she tore apart her last job." Unless a company is 100% committed to "choosing a side" and is willing to deal with the baggage that comes with this woman, the safest move is to not hire her.