How many apprentiices remained at sea after the completion of their indentures? I remained at sea for a further twelve years , however remained in the shipping industry for the balance of my working life. Colin

Baltic Wal

30th March 2006, 17:49

I completed my apprenticeship and went back to the company I served with after getting my ticket. After two trips I changed companies and served at sea for a further 3 1/2 years. Since then I have had no connection with the sea except for sailing or my research work.

non descript

30th March 2006, 21:19

Joined the company as an apprentice and still there nearly 41 years later; definitely older, maybe wiser....

I've certainly been very well looked after by the Owners, who have been supremely loyal.

Tonga

lakercapt

30th March 2006, 23:17

When I finished my indentures and got my second mates certificate I went back with the same company(Ropners) What a stupid mistake that was as the first captain I had sailed with as an apprentice and he still viewed me that way but getting paid more. One trip and good bye.
Did stay at sea until I retired.
Course at that time had I left sailing before I was 26 the British Government would have had my services in the army shooting at some insergent and there were several skirmishes going on at that time. I did not fancy some chinless wonder telling me (To go over the top)!

Joe Rooney

31st March 2006, 00:01

I left the sea in 1953, came to Canada, joined the Canadian army.

In 1954, I was stationed in Germany on a Nato posting when I received a letter from Whitehall. It was threatening me with dire consequences if I did not immediately report for "National Service".

Joe

B.Bass

31st March 2006, 04:38

Stayed with the company I was indentured to for 17 years until taken over by Houlder Bros. where I remained for a further 14 years untilo made redundant and that ended my seagoing career :@

R.Philip Griffin

31st March 2006, 04:56

When my Indentures were signed with Shaw Savill, my Dad asked about the retention rate of Apprentices and was told 4% yes four percent. In my case I did 12 years deep sea with Savills; six years ashore; migrated to Aust. and joined the Offshore Oil Industry,marine side. Just great-good money-job satisfaction and equal time on and off. Grifmar

mclean

31st March 2006, 17:51

Joined the company as an apprentice and still there nearly 41 years later; definitely older, maybe wiser....

I've certainly been very well looked after by the Owners, who have been supremely loyal.

Tonga
Great stuff Tonga. Not many can claim 41 years with the same company. Regards Colin

mclean

31st March 2006, 17:59

When my Indentures were signed with Shaw Savill, my Dad asked about the retention rate of Apprentices and was told 4% yes four percent. In my case I did 12 years deep sea with Savills; six years ashore; migrated to Aust. and joined the Offshore Oil Industry,marine side. Just great-good money-job satisfaction and equal time on and off. Grifmar
Grifmar. I guessed it was a low percentage, but not that low. It wasn,t that bad a life, was it? Given my time over again, I would do the same thing. Except for the long periods away, Shell was a very fair company. Colin

waiwera

31st March 2006, 19:09

I too spent my apprenticeship with "Savills" - I would have thought in my time (1964 1970) the wastage was about 60% - but of course by that time the "boxboats" were having their polluting effect - foolishly I followed to OCL - a big mistake - should have finished my time ( From Mates to Masters) in the twilight years of the company - rather than climbing round container lashings and getting bored!

You were very lucky to have spent the 50's on the Ausssie/Kiwi Coast - No Twilights - let alone Midnights! No weekend working and knock off time to make the 6 o'clock swill!

R.Philip Griffin

1st April 2006, 00:23

I too spent my apprenticeship with "Savills" - I would have thought in my time (1964 1970) the wastage was about 60% - but of course by that time the "boxboats" were having their polluting effect - foolishly I followed to OCL - a big mistake - should have finished my time ( From Mates to Masters) in the twilight years of the company - rather than climbing round container lashings and getting bored!

You were very lucky to have spent the 50's on the Ausssie/Kiwi Coast - No Twilights - let alone Midnights! No weekend working and knock off time to make the 6 o'clock swill!

Ahoy Waiwera. You are correct, the fifties were the end of going to sea with pleasure. I loved it, unfortunately my "old feller" told me sea and sex [with one wench] were incompatible. The wench won, until I found the wonderful world of Offshore Oil. Grifmar

Chris Field

1st April 2006, 21:20

Sorry, Ray, but I don't totally agree. As you know, I did "Worcester" '50-52 then apprentice with Ellermans till '55- great years but not much dough- but who cares?
Next came a spell with Union Steam in NZ till 1960- thoroughly enjoyed it and then, as you , met you-know-who.
Unlike many of the other writers, I left the sea (secondary scool teacher- another fantastic job in the 60,s-late 70's in NZ) before giving in to my need for the sea 1979 till 1994. Maritime Carrriers, NZ Shipping Corporation and finally Pacific Forum Line all gave me jobs (finished up as Master) despite the gap in my sea-time, and great memories- I have always felt very happy at having had two very wortwhile careers, though neither has made me a millionaire. Until recently I was working casually at the NZ Maritime School in Auckland (best in S.Hemisphere if not the world...) and was very pleased to see that there are still deicated seafarers around- not just leave-and-money-grabbers but real seamen/women- long may they remain around.

R.Philip Griffin

2nd April 2006, 03:31

Sorry, Ray, but I don't totally agree. As you know, I did "Worcester" '50-52 then apprentice with Ellermans till '55- great years but not much dough- but who cares?
Next came a spell with Union Steam in NZ till 1960- thoroughly enjoyed it and then, as you , met you-know-who.
Unlike many of the other writers, I left the sea (secondary scool teacher- another fantastic job in the 60,s-late 70's in NZ) before giving in to my need for the sea 1979 till 1994. Maritime Carrriers, NZ Shipping Corporation and finally Pacific Forum Line all gave me jobs (finished up as Master) despite the gap in my sea-time, and great memories- I have always felt very happy at having had two very wortwhile careers, though neither has made me a millionaire. Until recently I was working casually at the NZ Maritime School in Auckland (best in S.Hemisphere if not the world...) and was very pleased to see that there are still deicated seafarers around- not just leave-and-money-grabbers but real seamen/women- long may they remain around.

Ahoy Chris, You are correct. Seafarers are a calling. The old idea of salt in the blood is very true. I am glad there are still dedicated mariners around, just not as many as the fifties period. Well there must be as world wide shipping has quadrupled over the past fifty years. There must still be lots of mariners, they are just not as visible these days. Have to spend more time down at The Flying Duck. Grifmar

Alistair Macnab

12th December 2008, 19:09

Perhaps I was lucky! I spent 15 years at sea with Andrew Weir's from Apprentice to Master followed by a further 14 years ashore for them in the USA. It was a "career" and I never wanted to do anything else and the company seemed always to come up with new and challenging activities to keep me happy.
Since then, however, I have "kept the faith" by continuing to work in the industry ashore. First as a marine terminal operator/stevedore, then as a commodity trader and shipper, and finally as a port administrator.
To put the icing on the cake, now I teach at a university business school where I try to relate business with international trade and logistics. I am also actively involved with educating the public about seafaring as a career.

You see, I still believe it was all worthwhile and my apprenticeship set me on the road to a successful and fulfilling career which is still unfolding even after 55 years!

Dick S

8th February 2009, 16:52

I served my time Bibbys and then went on the pool as UC 3rd Mate. then as 2/mate with JJ Denholm. Into denholm Bermuda, then Denholm Maclay, loyal to Denholms. Had an accident in 1986 and exactly 20 years to day I signed on as a cadet I signed off for the last time. Thought that a career at sea was over and turned down a couple of jobs from agencies as I wanted to restart a life ashore. Regretted it ever since! Now have some connection with the sea in my current job BUT.......

Dick

sidsal

8th February 2009, 20:17

Chris Field. Did you know Pat Palin? He was an apprentice with me on the Fort Camosun in 1944. His widowed mother married a NZ Airforce Group Captain and returned with him to NZ after the war. Pat tried to persuade me to go with him and join the Union Co ( wish I had). The other apprentice was Guthrie and I believe he settled in NZ. Pat died a fe wyears ago but I am still in contact with his wife Jess who lives in Paraparaumu.
Saw Pat last in 1985 when I spent 5 months refitting a large yacht in Auckland before sailing it to the Meddy.

ioncomike

29th July 2009, 23:02

I erved my apprenticeship with Hains 1953 - 1957 and then stayed with them until 1964 when I came ashore.

jaydeeare

30th July 2009, 12:23

I know of a few lads from the same College Nav.Course who packed up the sea after their first trip!

kevinmurphy

2nd August 2009, 11:31

Served my time with common brothers newcastle, started in 77. there was 6 of us, 2 jacked in the first year, At college in phase 1 there were again 6, One lad packed in straight after taking his 2nd Mates. I stopped at sea for 30 years and now work as a rig mover / surveyor, one lad is still at sea on Ferries, one lad is a Pilot in UK.of the others, recently found out one is training to be a Vicar, one is a risk consultant and one a succesful business man.
When I look on friends reunited for my peer group ot South Shields M&TC I can find only one lad(or lass) still at sea from the 60 odd of our course.Although obviously not all are registerd there.
I was very happy with Commons, not a bad bunch. got 2 trips as third mate then laid off.
Kev

Donald McGhee

13th February 2010, 22:37

Served my time with Donaldsons and Bank Line, came ashore in 1970, have been involved in many things since, hotelier, firefighter, trucker, labourer, assessor, manager of clubs, survey tech, etc, etc, and finally I have been self employed as a contract Loss Adjuster to the NZ Earthquake Commission, where I assess natural damage as a result of Flood, storm, Volcanic eruption, quake, tsunami, hydrothermal activity and landslip, or fires as a result of any of the above. My face has worn out three bodies and I still don't know what I want to do when I grow up, if I ever do!
Thank you to the sea and ships for laying the foundation of my life's work, which is still ongoing. Only 3 years to go until pension day!

doug rowland

16th February 2010, 21:58

I saw many of my contemporarys leave the sea after serving their time or after a short period with a ticket. I served my time and a total of ten years with same company up to Ch Off. With the advent of container ships looked for pastures new,joined ferries for a few years,came ashore briefly then into cable ships for eighteen years til early retirement. Now farming in a small way...enjoyed the lot and would certainly go back to the early years in very well found ships where everything and every body worked hard,played hard,and seemed satisfied with their lot,generally....or is it rose tinted senile memories?

Doug

slick

18th February 2010, 06:56

All,
There seems to be crossover between the use of the word Cadet and Apprentice.
As an Apprentice I was Indentured to the the Company, my parents had to put up a Surety (£50), which was returned on completion of my time.
I did not in fact sign on but we had to be presented to the Shipping Master at the "signing on" and the "signing off".
Our sea time was recorded on the back of our Indentures for later presentation for Certificates.
A Cadet I understood was signed on the ship as per the standard way.
Apprentices could not be as it were "sacked".
Any enlightenment would be appreciated, I would imagine Ship Owners costs will be involved somewhere.

Yours aye,

slick

xrm

22nd February 2010, 12:39

Slick

Same here - details of voyages as an apprentice are recorded on rear of indentures. My discharge book was marked as "no entries whilst indentured"

Rob

jimthehat

22nd February 2010, 13:44

wILL HAVE TO CHECK MY INDENTURES BUT AS AN APPRENTICE IN BANK LINE I SERVED MY TIME ON 3 SHIPS AND FULL DETAILS ENTERED IN MY DISCHARGE BOOK,EVEN DOWN TO VGs in the conduct and ability columns.

jim

jimthehat

22nd February 2010, 14:00

wILL HAVE TO CHECK MY INDENTURES BUT AS AN APPRENTICE IN BANK LINE I SERVED MY TIME ON 3 SHIPS AND FULL DETAILS ENTERED IN MY DISCHARGE BOOK,EVEN DOWN TO VGs in the conduct and ability columns.

jim

RE MY ABOVE i have checked and my indentures also had full details of my servce.

jim

lakercapt

22nd February 2010, 15:48

The back of my indentures were marked with my time on ships (three).
I also had a discharge book with my voyage information.
We did not sign the ships agreement where as Cadets did.

CAPTAIN JEREMY

10th March 2010, 15:14

I started as a cadet with P & O in 1974, and after "coming out of my time" in December 1977 stayed with P & O Cruises until the end of 1981. I am still at sea, having had a varied and very enjoyable life at sea. I tend to think that seafarers are "Peter Pan characters" in as much as we never really grow up. I have been at sea for 35 years now. When asked about retirement, I reply what is the point, when I am only expected to work for 6 months of the year!! Long may it continue.

woodend

10th March 2010, 15:29

Some very interesting letters and careers. I also went back to the same company after completing my apprenticeship (E.D.'s) and stayed with them until made up to Mate. As it would be years to a command I emigrated and joined the South African Railways and Harbours. I was Mate for three years and then Master. I stayed with them until theoretical retirement. Now I can pick and choose my jobs.

bev summerill

15th March 2010, 16:14

served my time with bristol city line 1960-64 and then ED's for 18 years then denholm bermuda for 3 years and came ashore in 1986.I was made redundant twice but did get to Master. I was an apprentice with my sea service recorded on the back of my indentures and I was paid the sum of £9 a month rising to£18 in the last year.I would have stayed at sea but was fed up with being redundant. Bev Summerill

Thenavigator4

16th March 2010, 13:49

Served my time with Buries Markes from 1963 to 1967. Signed Indentures in 1965! So technically I was a Cadet for 18 months. All the entries are in my discharge book but there is only one entry as apprentice. however I still have the entries on the back of the Indentures.

As I understood it, a Cadet could be fired, dismissed, or DR'd etc but not an apprentice.

I stayed at sea until 1970 with the same company as 4th & 3rd Mate, and left for a woman!

Got married and regretted it ever since

Ernest

Patrick Taylor

16th March 2010, 14:11

Served my time with Eagle Oil and all seatime were entered in Discharge Book and on Indentures, believe that was the most common behaviour.

John Tremelling

17th March 2010, 12:06

As this seem to be a thread for CV's, here is mine:-

Signed indentures with Trident Tankers 1964, served as Cadet and uncertificated 3rd Mate, completed seatime, failed 2nd Mates, too much time in the pub and chasing women, sailed coastal tankers with Rowbothams, re sat and passed 2nd Mates just to prove to myself that I could. My father was then a Policeman thus I naturally gravitated to the police, but joined Metropolitan with a view to serving on Thames Division, which I did. By late 1970's however the River Thames finally ceased to be a working river and I got fed up with yuppies in their fancy yachts, went ashore and spent the rest of my working life 'kicking ass'.

Doesnt sound much for 40 years does it? But all in all had a damn good time. Feeling especially mellow now as I have just received an excellent repro of a Trident Tankers cap badge bought on Ebay. Heaven knows what happened to my old one, I would never have thrown it away but such sentimental objects did not mean as much then so I carelessly mislaid it.

My seatime was entered in Discharge Book and on Indentures.

The skeleton in my cupboard is that my son was commissioned into Grey Funnel Line, I could never work out where they carried their cargo? He suffered the same fate as me however, got married and is now a teacher.

John T

John Hebblewhite

17th March 2010, 22:28

As an apprentice the first entry in my discharge reads " Deck apprentice to Bank Line"
the next entry was for 3rd mate. During my apprenticeship the only entries were on the back of my indentures with vessel, dates, lengths of voyage for sea time and masters signature. The indentures also state that the sum of £30 was payable after satisfactory service for the term of the indenture. I believe this is the correct procedure as the first entry was by the Liverpool MN office.