well I am really only concerned with [ws240]. I need that client to run at 640x480. I ve also tried to force that use to run a shell just to test it out and it did not work.

09:29

I guess I will change the default and see if that does anything first. Then I ll have to take it from there.

09:30

<sbalneav>

Are you sure your workstations know their hostnames?

09:30

tux_440volt has quit IRC

09:30

jammcq has joined #ltsp

09:30

<sbalneav>

Maybe try addressing via the mac address.

09:30

<jammcq>

g'morning all

09:30

<diadicic>

thats a though

09:30

<sbalneav>

[00:11:22:33:44:55]

09:30

morning jammcq

09:31

<diadicic>

sbalneav: If I logon to a workstation and type $DISPLAY that should give me its name. Correct?

09:31

<sbalneav>

No

09:31

echo $DISPLAY

09:32

<diadicic>

sorry thats what I ment. It would have taken me about 10 tries but I think I would have gotten it.

09:32

<sbalneav>

but that may not be what the workstation thinks it it.

09:32

it is.

09:32

sepski has joined #ltsp

09:33

<diadicic>

How does the workstation know what it is?

09:33

<sbalneav>

do a SCREEN_02 = shell, and then do a hostname on the thin client to find out what it really thinks it's hostname is.

09:33

from dhcpd

09:33

<diadicic>

ok

09:35

after I edit the lts.conf. Do I have to reboot the server itself?

09:40

ok. It reports it self at ws240.ltsp

09:41

ace_suares has quit IRC

09:41

ace_suares has joined #ltsp

09:42

<diadicic>

sbalneav: That was it. It's all better now. Thanks alot.

09:48

tomcats_ has quit IRC

09:49

doggkatcha has joined #ltsp

09:49

<diadicic>

Thanks again

09:49

diadicic has quit IRC

10:08

cyberorg has quit IRC

10:09

staffencasa has joined #ltsp

10:14

DonSilver has joined #ltsp

10:19

cyberorg has joined #ltsp

10:25

tiagovaz__ has quit IRC

10:32

tiagovaz has joined #ltsp

10:32

ltspbot has joined #ltsp

10:33

<sbalneav>

!pastebot

10:33

<ltspbot>

sbalneav: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.

10:33

<sbalneav>

there we go

10:33

factoids are back.

10:35

<cliebow_>

\!

10:41

BadMagic has quit IRC

10:41

BadMagic has joined #ltsp

10:42

cdealer__ has joined #ltsp

10:42

<cdealer__>

ogra: hey ...

10:42

cdealer__: have you noticed any problem with java jvm ?

10:43

ogra: in our tests we have noticed that sometimes the cpu use of jvm comes to 100% and the machine stops to respond and them we have to kill the session and start all overagain

10:44

Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp

10:44

<ogra>

ask sun i guess :) i only use the java briwser plugin here and even that one not more often than twice a year i guess

10:44

*browser

10:44

Avatara has quit IRC

10:45

<cdealer__>

ogra: Hmm we use a oracle ias aplication that uses a java applet... now the user are using for 2 hours without problem and no problem, but before we had some freezing problems = very strange

10:45

<ogra>

hmm, weird

10:46

i havent heard about an issues yet

10:46

<rjune>

ogra: howdy

10:46

<ogra>

hey rjune

10:54

<cdealer__>

ogra: is there anyway to force some app to run on the client (using the client resources) ?

10:55

<ogra>

cdealer__, not easily, no currently you would have to set up a local ssh server, make sure the users /home is mounted on teh client (for the keys and apps) and need a network based auth mechanism that authenticates the client in parallel to the server session

10:55

tiagovaz_ has joined #ltsp

10:56

<ogra>

sbalneav already works on a really sweet solution for this but that wont be in before ubuntu hardy starts

10:58

<cdealer__>

ogra: you know how to do it ? This java aplication must run smooth with no problems... i said already that we are open to consulting dont i? O.o

10:58

=D

10:59

tiagovaz has quit IRC

11:00

K_O-Gnom has joined #ltsp

11:00

<ogra>

well, you could probably play guineapig for scott ;)

11:01

<sbalneav>

I have a nice simple solution in it's embryonic stages.

11:05

tux_440volt has joined #ltsp

11:10

<cdealer__>

sbalneav: are you talking about my problem ??

11:11

DonSilver has quit IRC

11:12

<ogra>

cdealer__, yes

11:13

<cdealer__>

hmm im very open to ideas... but just hope to be something I can do

11:16

vagrantc has joined #ltsp

11:18

<sbalneav>

I'd say I'd be at least a month or two away before I'd have something I was comfortable with releasing

11:19

And even then, there's no guarenteeing that the other LTSP developers will like my idea.

11:20

* ogra does

11:20

<ogra>

and we'll just corner vagrantc :)

11:20

* vagrantc wonders what idea this is

11:20

<sbalneav>

method for handling localapps.

11:21

In a nutshell:

11:21

<ogra>

vagrantc, remenmer Gadi's idea for using getpwent ?

11:21

<sbalneav>

1) install libnss-extrafiles in the chroot

11:21

<ogra>

scott thought that to an end :)

11:22

<sbalneav>

2) ldm has login script that gets user and group data from host

11:22

<ogra>

in a really sexy way imho :)

11:22

(as usual indeed)

11:22

<sbalneav>

3) user and group data added to extra passwd and group file

11:23

4) small (~200 lines so far) daemon sits and watches for an xprop on the root window to change.

* Gadi reads up on discussion of the day, and wants to put his $0.02 and vote in for sshfs+some-other-stackable-fuse-fs-to-handle-stat

13:38

* Gadi uses jammcq-hyphen-notation

13:38

<sbalneav>

I fail to see what's the problem with NFS.

13:39

<vagrantc>

sshfs, or at least using the secure channel we already have... seems like a nice idea- using the secure channel we already have

13:40

with NFS, you basically are giving write permission to user's data across an insecure medium ...

13:40

<sbalneav>

We're doing that now.

13:41

* vagrantc doesn't have any environment's where the home directories are writeable through insecure filesystems

13:41

<sbalneav>

Then maybe that's an enironment where you don't run localapps.

13:41

ltspfs would be LESS secure than nfs.

13:41

<vagrantc>

sure

13:42

well, sure that ltspfs will be less secure than nfs...

13:43

i would like to be able to use local apps and have a more secure filesystem, and will continue to keep an eye out for how to make that possible.

13:44

<sbalneav>

Well, you'd either have to modify sshfs, but that wouldn't be secure either.

13:44

In fact, until we do someting to store the ssh keys on a local medium on the thin client, none of the ssh stuff we've done is secure either.

13:44

<jammcq>

sshfs ain't the answer. no freespace capability

13:44

<sbalneav>

it's just obfuscation :)

13:45

<vagrantc>

there are layers of security

13:45

<jammcq>

i'd take obfuscation as an intermediate step

13:46

<vagrantc>

security is not boolean ... there's a big difference between sending all your data via unencrypted XDMCP vs. through an ssh in which the ssh binary is coming from an insecure filesystem

13:46

<jammcq>

tru dat

13:46

<sbalneav>

The keys are also going across the network in cleartext.

13:46

like I say, it's obfuscation.

13:47

<jammcq>

but there's a difference between a casual listener, and one who actively tries to grab the keys, and work them into a solution for monitoring all traffic

13:47

<vagrantc>

the client-side key is generated at run-time, and the known_hosts data is cleartext

13:47

<jammcq>

obviously, the most secure thing would be to unplug all devices from the network

13:47

but that's hardly a good choice either

13:48

Q-FUNK has joined #ltsp

13:48

<vagrantc>

to compromise it, you would have to consistantly hijack the NFS connection and insert your own known_hosts data, and grab and ensure all ip traffic goes to your stolen ip.

13:48

(or NBD connection)

13:49

<jammcq>

the security issue with NFS isn't the fact that somebody can snoop and see the data. the problem is that ANYBODY with a laptop can connect up and modify YOUR files

13:49

student has laptop, plugs into network and modifies the grades in the teachers home directory

13:49

twinprism has joined #ltsp

13:49

<jammcq>

it's an authentication problem, more than an encryption problem. imho

13:50

* jammcq notes that's the first time he's ever used "imho"

13:51

<sbalneav>

Well, there's two problems with sshfs:

13:52

1) The freespace issue. This can be handled by stacking a small, custom fuse filesystem on top that passes through most stuff to the sshfs filesystem, execpt the statfs call, which it handles out of band.

13:52

<Q-FUNK>

all portmap-based services suck, anyhow

13:52

<sbalneav>

and 2) Now you're going to have to keep the users password around on the workstation somewhere in cleartext so you can plumb the ssh connection.

13:53

<vagrantc>

regarding point 2, can't we just use the ssh socket, like we do with all the other LDM stuff ?

13:53

<jammcq>

sbalneav: is it possible to use the encrypted channel already created by ldm ?

13:53

<sbalneav>

Not without modifying the source to sshfs, I don't think. Since it spawns off it's own ssh.

13:54

<jammcq>

so maybe sshfs isn't the thing to do that with

13:54

<sbalneav>

It would, one supposes, be a nice feature to use an existing ssh control socket, and Miklos of Fuse/SSHFS would probably accept something like that.

13:55

<jammcq>

seems like it, eh

13:55

<vagrantc>

we can hope

13:55

<sbalneav>

Well, Miklos is pretty reasonable, I've spoken to him via email a couple of times, so that's a possibility there.

13:55

<vagrantc>

"the freespace issue" is a fundamental design issue ?

13:56

<jammcq>

yes

13:56

sshfs relies on sftp, which doesn't have a freespace call

13:56

<sbalneav>

sftp has no call in it to find out the free space on the remote filesystm

13:56

<vagrantc>

got it

13:56

<sbalneav>

but writing a passtrhough filesystem to handle that's an afternoon job.

13:56

<vagrantc>

sbalneav: for you, maybe :)

13:57

* jammcq notes that it's only 2pm where scotty is :)

13:57

<sbalneav>

Besides the "ick" factor of stacking two fuse filesystems on top of each other :)

13:57

tux_440volt has quit IRC

13:57

<vagrantc>

sbalneav, the non-programmer who writes filesystems

13:57

<sbalneav>

I can look into the sshfs thing.

13:57

<jammcq>

non-programmer? heh, scotty is uber-programmer

13:57

<sbalneav>

Bull.

13:57

I know enough to cause trouble :)

13:57

<jammcq>

just for the record, /me thinks sshfs is icky

13:58

sbalneav: it's your kind of trouble that we like

13:58

<vagrantc>

jammcq: because ... ?

13:58

<sbalneav>

Anywho, I got an appointment. I'm gonna dash off, I'll take a peek at sshfs tonight.

13:58

<jammcq>

vagrantc: umm, cuz it's not the complete solution

13:58

it needs a bandaid on top of it to finish the job

13:58

<sbalneav>

be back later.

13:58

<vagrantc>

jammcq: sure.

13:59

but you can't deny the attractiveness of using an existing secure channel

13:59

<jammcq>

oh, I LIKE that idea

13:59

you mean the channel created by LDM ?

13:59

<vagrantc>

yes

13:59

<jammcq>

yeah, I REALLY LIKE that idea

13:59

<Gadi>

don't forget the quantum tunneling :)

13:59

<jammcq>

darned quantum tunneling will get us every time

13:59

<Gadi>

sorry - I only catch every other page of this conv :D

14:00

Q-FUNK has quit IRC

14:00

* Gadi does not think sshfs is icky - just that ssh folks are anal

14:00

* Gadi is always in favor of dirty hacks

14:01

* vagrantc plays the "will the wind dry the clothes before it rains" game

14:01

<Gadi>

especially if we get to say 'quantum tunneling'

14:09

plameng1 has joined #ltsp

14:09

plameng1 has left #ltsp

14:12

<joebob777as7_>

hey for my host ws001 in dhcpd.conf what do i need beside the mac address and the ip address i want it to have. i have a chroot called nvidia

14:13

trying to make a certain box boot to a different chroot...

14:13

<vagrantc>

joebob777as7_: root-path

14:14

joebob777as7_: but does it use the exact same kernel ?

14:14

<joebob777as7_>

so option root-path "/opt/ltsp/nvidia";

14:14

<vagrantc>

joebob777as7_: otherwise you'd have to also specify a different filename

14:14

<joebob777as7_>

not sure lol they are 64 bit boxes...

14:14

?

14:15

<vagrantc>

i can't tell you what you have :P

14:16

<joebob777as7_>

i just did ltsp build client for nvidia dir and i installed graphics drivers

joebob777as7_: so you need some way in dhcp to distinguish between using i386, amd64 and nvidia ... (though why not just install the nvdidia stuff into the i386 and amd64 dirs?)

14:21

Amaranth has quit IRC

14:21

<joebob777as7_>

because ogra told me that by install the graphics drivers i would overwrite xgl in that dir. so i wanted to leave it open for someone to be able to bring in a laptop and plug in...

14:21

<vagrantc>

ok

14:22

<joebob777as7_>

so in dhcpd.conf i put hotst ws001 {

14:22

<vagrantc>

joebob777as7_: so, you just need to set up appropriate root-path and filename entries for each machine ...

14:22

<joebob777as7_>

hardware ethernet 00:19:db:d2:ac;

14:22

fixed address 10.0.0.5;

14:22

option root-path "/opt/ltsp/nvidia";

14:22

filename "/ltsp/nvidia/pxelinux.0";

14:22

<vagrantc>

!pastebot

14:22

<ltspbot>

vagrantc: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.

14:22

<vagrantc>

joebob777as7_: please use the pastebot, and just paste your entire dhcpd.conf

14:22

<joebob777as7_>

sry

14:23

<vagrantc>

joebob777as7_: i'd also recommend exploring the group option in dhcp ...

ok vagrantc i figured out the port deal after updating the sshkeys but it's not booting properly... it goes to the nvidia dir i can see that but as soon as the ubuntu upsplash comes up it goes to that /bin/sh black screen

not booting properly... it goes to the nvidia dir i can see that but as soon as the ubuntu upsplash comes up it goes to that /bin/sh black screen

16:11

bobby_C has joined #ltsp

16:11

<sbalneav>

but that's easy enough to fix

16:11

<ogra>

!pastebot

16:11

<ltspbot>

ogra: "pastebot" is The LTSP pastebot is at http://pastebot.ltsp.org. Please paste all text longer than a line or two to the pastebot, as it helps to reduce traffic in the channel. A link to the content will be pasted in the channel.

16:11

<ogra>

:P

16:11

WOOOPEEEE !!!!!

16:11

* ogra dances

16:12

<ogra>

sbalneav, did you upgrade yelp today ?

16:12

tiagovaz__ has quit IRC

16:12

<sbalneav>

No, not yet.

16:12

<ogra>

DOIT !

16:12

handbook is on the front now

16:12

jammcq has quit IRC

16:12

<sbalneav>

Have to wait 'till I get home :)

16:12

OK, that'll be the first thing I do :)

16:13

ok, I'm gonna head home.

16:13

see you all on later tonight.

16:13

sbalneav has quit IRC

16:13

mikkel has quit IRC

16:15

Guaraldo has left #ltsp

16:16

<joebob777as7_>

ogra, can you give me a hand?

16:28

fernando110 has quit IRC

16:33

joebaker has left #ltsp

16:34

nf1 has quit IRC

16:56

muh2000 has quit IRC

17:01

<joebob777as7_>

says it can't find a bunch of dirs when it trys to boot....

17:12

nicoAMG has joined #ltsp

17:19

<joebob777as7_>

ogra, you on?

17:22

nicoAMG has quit IRC

17:30

bobby_C has quit IRC

18:12

fernando110 has joined #ltsp

18:36

staffencasa has quit IRC

18:44

joebob777as7 has joined #ltsp

18:45

joebob777as7_ has quit IRC

19:02

<vagrantc>

otavio: might you have time for an ltsp upload tomorrow?

19:04

<otavio>

vagrantc: sure

19:04

vagrantc: send it to me

19:10

<joebob777as7>

ogra, you on? i'm having boot issues. taking me to a /bin/sh: can't access tty; job control turned off screen

19:22

vagrantc has quit IRC

19:44

blackosprey has joined #ltsp

19:53

K_O-Gnom has quit IRC

20:03

jammcq has joined #ltsp

20:03

<jammcq>

hey kidz

20:03

sbalneav has joined #ltsp

20:03

<sbalneav>

Evening all

20:04

<jammcq>

Scotty !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

20:06

<sbalneav>

Evening jammcq

20:28

<blackosprey>

hey i have an issue with my dhcpd server...

20:28

anyone care to help?

20:34

<sbalneav>

What's the problem?

20:37

blackosprey has quit IRC

20:38

<jammcq>

heh

20:38

guess he figured it out

20:40

chris_punches has quit IRC

20:43

edgarin has quit IRC

20:58

cliebow has joined #ltsp

21:39

monteslu has joined #ltsp

21:47

<jcastro>

moquist: around?

21:48

Lumiere has quit IRC

21:49

<moquist>

jcastro: yep

21:50

<jcastro>

moquist: you coming to uds and the following ltsp party in maine?

21:50

<moquist>

jcastro: just rolled out puppet yesterday & today, for one school.

21:50

jcastro: ltsp party? :(

21:50

jcastro: I'll be at UDS.

21:50

<jammcq>

well, bts

21:50

bts-2007

21:50

* moquist didn't know about BTS...

21:50

<jcastro>

moquist: oh man, AWESOME. I just saw luke at the ohiolinuxfest. I was keen about pointing him towards you.

21:50

<jammcq>

moquist: we're just getting it organized

21:50

<jcastro>

moquist: I will have a car, so if you need a lift ...

21:50

<moquist>

jammcq: :)

21:51

<jammcq>

nov 3-5 (Sat-Mon) in SW.Harbor

21:51

<jcastro>

moquist: I have the cool car, with ogra and stuff, don't ride with jammcq. :p

21:51

captain_magnus has quit IRC

21:51

<moquist>

jcastro: ha ha! :-)

21:51

captain_magnus has joined #ltsp

21:52

<moquist>

jammcq: I'd love to be there. I'll have to make sure that works for my work&home calendars.

21:52

<jcastro>

moquist: if it's not too much trouble, can you document your puppet stuff and bring it with you? I'm keen on getting it in as server candy for LTS, I'd like some more data on it.

21:52

<moquist>

jcastro: would it be enough to bring a tarball of /etc/puppet? :)

21:52

<jcastro>

I find it a perfect match for people deploying LTSP, I'd like to get that better supported in ubuntu

21:52

moquist: yep yep, it would

21:53

<moquist>

that's easily done, then.

21:53

muh2000 has joined #ltsp

21:53

<moquist>

right now I'm just pushing out dhcp configuration (with load balancing), sudoers, /etc/cups/ppd/* and printers.conf

21:53

printers.conf is awkward. I'm not happy with it.

21:53

<jcastro>

yeah

21:53

you have my config right?

21:54

<moquist>

I overwrote a teachers' printers.conf on his laptop, which had a one-off printer configured for it.

21:54

jcastro: er, maybe. haven't been looking at it.

21:54

<jcastro>

k, feel free to holler at me

21:54

<moquist>

jcastro: Oh, and my server got cracked and then 2/3 of my RAID array died in the same day, so I lost a bunch of stuff. Not sure yet whether I'm going to be able to recover my data.

21:55

<jcastro>

I had a raid die my last day at the university

21:55

I feel you man

21:55

<moquist>

Oh, painful. :(

21:55

<jcastro>

luckily never been owned

21:55

<moquist>

I managed to grab ~/docs before it went, which is VERY good.

21:55

I lost ~/projects, but most of that is already somewhere else.

21:55

<jcastro>

the last few months I took a "linus" view on backups, as much shit copied to as many places as possible

21:56

Lumiere has joined #ltsp

21:56

<jcastro>

moquist: I gotta tell you my new sunray story

21:56

<moquist>

jcastro: I think it was the cracked canonical servers, but I'm not sure. (I logged back into my machine from those.)

21:56

<jcastro>

moquist: ouch.

21:56

<moquist>

jcastro: new sunray story...?

21:56

<jcastro>

so like we've been an ltsp shop for going on a year now, so sun sent down some "experts".

21:57

<moquist>

"Expert Senior Sales", that is.

21:57

<jcastro>

they want to donate $20k of server equipment for a cluster if we'll come back to sunray in our labs.

21:58

pure slime. unfortunately I left the job before I could squash that. Lucky for me the Dean is an ubuntu maniac, so when I tell him "Don't do that, seriously." he listened

21:58

<moquist>

nice

21:58

jcastro: so you left your job...

21:58

<jcastro>

but seriously, how scummy. "Donating" equipment with conditions to move back to their platform.

21:59

moquist: yeah, I work for canonical now

21:59

<moquist>

Sun Scum.

21:59

jcastro: yay! so apparently that worked out. Congratulations!

21:59

<jcastro>

moquist: thanks.

21:59

MagicStorm has joined #ltsp

22:00

<moquist>

Hmm. Just to clarify -- when I complained about printers.conf, I was actually complaining about handling it in puppet.

22:00

<jcastro>

unfortunately, I was one of their lead dudes in .edu deployment stuff, so now they need a new rockstar who works in .edu, deploys LTSP, and is generally awesome.

22:00

moquist: it's a good thing you're around. :p

22:00

vagrantc has joined #ltsp

22:00

<moquist>

I would rather have printer { ppd => <source>, name => "name" } than file { printers.conf...}.

22:00

<jcastro>

split it into classes

22:00

that's what I did for everything

22:01

<moquist>

jcastro: No, I'm saying that I want a printer Puppet Type. (I hope there is one, I haven't been able to check yet.)

22:01

<jcastro>

well, if you need one, let's just ask luke at uds.

22:02

<moquist>

jcastro: well, do you agree?

22:02

jcastro: the point is that I want to be able to add printers without blowing away whatever may have been configured locally.

22:02

<jcastro>

moquist: dude I hated cups so much I ran a windows print server

22:02

that's how much I hated cups.

22:03

<moquist>

Oh, I don't care so much about cups. I'm not using it for print serving; we have JetDirect everywhere.

22:03

...but that means I have to tell every machine about every printer.

22:03

<jcastro>

moquist: document your issues and I'll bring them to luke, I have to take off.

22:03

* moquist nods

22:03

<jcastro>

moquist: but I'll see you in boston

22:03

<3

22:03

<moquist>

I've been thinking of piping up in #puppet about it.

22:03

<jcastro>

do so

22:03

<moquist>

yep

22:03

<jcastro>

it's a friendly place

22:04

<moquist>

I've been in there a bit and gotten help.

22:04

<jcastro>

you want to talk to lak, that's luke; use my name in vain to get help

22:04

heh

22:04

nite all!

22:04

<moquist>

night owl

22:09

chad has joined #ltsp

22:12

<chad>

anybody here tonight?

22:12

<vagrantc>

!question

22:12

<ltspbot>

vagrantc: "question" is if you have a question about ltsp, just ask it, and people will respond if they can.

22:13

<vagrantc>

ltspbot: forget question

22:13

<ltspbot>

vagrantc: The operation succeeded.

22:13

<vagrantc>

ltspbot: learn question as if you have a question about ltsp, please go ahead and ask it, and people will respond if they can.

22:13

<ltspbot>

vagrantc: The operation succeeded.

22:13

<chad>

Same one I posted last night -- any clues how to make printers available in edubuntu's ltsp kiosk mode?

22:13

Joris has joined #ltsp

22:18

joebaker has joined #ltsp

22:18

<joebaker>

ogra are you there?

22:25

Joris_ has quit IRC

22:26

<vagrantc>

joebaker: ogra's probably sleeping

22:31

chad has left #ltsp

22:37

F-GT has quit IRC

22:37

<lns>

who out there experiences random thin-client freezes with LTSP, say, while online w/Firefox?

22:38

I've got a class that was online today for 20 minutes, and 5 machines hard-locked while using Firefox.

22:51

<sbalneav>

lns: There's been a huge discussion on this lately

22:52

Check out the ltsp-discuss, edubuntu-users, and edubuntu-devel mailing lists.

22:53

<lns>

sbalneav, great - thank you

22:53

<sbalneav>

lns: Bottom line: it's firefox grabbing all your ram.

22:54

<lns>

sbalneav, wow...ok i'll check the lists, is there any light at the end of the tunnel?

22:57

<sbalneav>

Strategies:

22:57

1) Wait for firefox to decide to fix it (some work being done, no clue when finished)

22:57

2) Add huge amounts of nbd swap

22:58

3) Add more ram

22:58

4) Use something else, like Konqeror, or Opera.

23:03

<lns>

...wow

23:04

I guess I don't understand the way firefox handles ram, but it sure seems like it should be restricted/recycled somehow instead of just eating it all up and causing the whole session to crash