I, in some of my earlier posts, tried to condemn the acts of the management of Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa and the threats to the population of a civilized city and the government writ, announced/given by two Maulana's i.e. Mr. Abdul-Azeez and Mr. Abdul-Rahseed.

So much has been discussed on various tv channels regarding their back ground, incident of their father's mysterious murder, their limited particpation in Afghan Jehad, their earlier terrorist activities, support of Mr. Ejaz-ul-Haq and his demised father Zia-ul-Haq to them and their rigidity on various issues.

However, one thing was appearing to much from their attitude that they were not going to agree on any thing with the government. The MAJOBOOR female students of Jamia (declared as Ninja Fighters by BBC) and LA-WARIS kids of the Mosque Madrissa were being used for their own intents and benefits.

This all situation coupled with the terrorist activities of Jamia/Lal Majid people in the shape of kidnapping the people and murdering the army man / general people and setting to fire the government buildings etc resulted to the current operation instituted by the government.

Mr. Abdul Azeez was again and again talking about the oath to get shahadat and not to leave their stance at any cost. He, some moments before the news of his arrest, was exclaiming to be extremely ready for death which in his view was shahadat. He was also exclaiming to have seen so many dreams where The Prophet PBUH asked him to do this all NAOOZBILLAH. Reportedly he was also maintaining a diary of such dreams. He said that Prophet PBUH said to him in his dream (NAOOZBILLAH) that his blood will bring the revolution.

However, the world saw that how shamefully this man ABDUL AZEEZ was captured wearing a veil like a female. He was appearing to be a RAT captured by a number of CATS when he was pushed into the car. The females surrounding him said to the law enforcers that he was their AUNTI. I wonder how a true muslim to whom the Prophet PBUH has given the order of getting shahadat can become a helpless AUNTI in this way. This is extremely a shameful act.

He was appearing like Saddam Hussain when he was captured from a hole in the land. However, their still remains a difference between the SADDAM HUSSAIN and ABDUL AZEEZ. Saddam after his arrest did not cried to anybody to do something to save his life. But this man, Abdul Azeez soon after his arrest (accidently met) to Mr. Ejaz-ul-Haq and said by crying loudly that "Please do something for me". It is extremely shameful for a person who was using the name of Prophet PBUH and was using the name of Islam and was motivating a number of innocent as well as terrorist students (both categories were in this Jamia and Mosque) to give their lives for the sake of their mission.

I wonder how these people could be called ULEMAS by us and why some of us so strictly try to save their skins.

This act at his part left no difference between AUNTI SHAMIM and AUNTI ABDULAZEEZ.

Let's see what the younger brother has to do in the absence of his AUNTI.

I do agree with you, But i av some doubts on musharaf goverment as well. I think they just use them just to prove we did many things agaisnt terrorism and extremism in th eye of americans. Because why these things happening just in election year in the end of his teneur and 2ndly just to turn out people attention form CHIEF justice case too.

The attempt to escape from Abdul Hafeez could not be compated with Saddam's case, as it was much more shameful. At least Saddam had the courage to embrace death sentence like a man. (I'm never a supporter of Saddam).

I guess his dreams failed to reveal this shameful incident to him.

There are enough doubt that this all could be a government planned incident. However, I don't think it will heip the govt in gainning vote bank. The only purpose it may yield for the government is to show to Western lords that threat of Talibanization and religious extrmism is there in Pakistan, so Musharraf's govt is highly required until he completely crub the extremist groups.

Whether it was a govt planned incident or not, it has earned a very bad name to maulvis

Please Don't take Anything negatively this was probably be my last post in this forum....

Well Dear KamranACA Sahib and others I deliberately try to avoid Posting in this topic in forum however as to the need of time there are something i need to clarify here so please read my full post Insha-Allah I will be able to remove your Mediaic Brain Washing....

First of all this Whole LAL MASJID case was self creation of the government of pakistan and their Agencies.....Then there are much much loop holes in media reportings this also uncover some backhand accoustomed acts......

LAL Masjid MOAZIN QARI AYUEB was the government salaried employee from "OWQAF"...he was the person who gave raise to this whole game.....

Moulana Abdul Aziz is already a Mentaly Disabled Person because when Mufti Taqi Usmani Sahib went to him that although he is 100% right on the stipulations he made to the Govt. however the procedures which he had addopted are not very fruitful....Moulana Adbul Aziz replied that when things have decided on heavens then the covenents of earth remain unadopted and that's why he will not accept Mufti Sahib' Views in this parlance.......

One thing more that is Moulana Abdul Aziz also said that he had given 300 Basharats from Heavens that He need to do Jehad against those who do not want ISLAMISATION......

This shows that he was mently distrubed person and still the why in which he was traeted in media i strongly condemn that one....

This whole drama just only become possible due to internal involvement of Secret Agencies in LAL Masjid and their unrestricted access to LAL Masjid.....<b>How it possible to collect that much millitancy equipments in Capital of Pakistan where agencies are always exist with every person like "KIRAMAN KATIBEEN"</b>.....this whole drama has developped to flop LONDON APC....CJ's decision pending.....and to apprehend USA that <b>"INTIHA PASAND"(Extremists)</b> are there in pakistan and so that <b>I(Musharraf) am the only person who can control these INTIHA PASANDS...and so My Parnership with BENAZIR can not able me to work that efficiently.....</b>

As far as Moulana's Escape in Burqa is concerned this was another drama of agencies with "DARWEESH SIFT" Moulana Abdul Aziz...this was only to make mess of <b>"SHUAIR-E-ISLAM" like "DARHEE( Beared)" and "BURQA"...and "PAGRII"....</b>

My dear people remember one thing that criticising any one is eassier but my dears it is origianly very difficult yo cope with such situations.....

Dears Believe me that in this whole drama Moulana Abdul Aziz and his all students were Innocent People and these people had been used by the government agencies very effectively due to their SADGII..............

It is very easy thing to criticise someone and self assessment is much more difficult. Normally it has been seen that people having no idea about the outcomes of what they are doing criticise someone. First of all that being a Muslim we should respect ULLAMA s as they are much superior than a layman. We are not allowed to pass such comments as by mr kamran as we dont know who is right and who is wrong. Only the God knows it. So please my friends dont say any thing which can become a hurdle for you in the AKHIRAH. Please dont write any more on this topic as we are not allowed to discuss these sort of topics because our simple mistake can take us away from heaven.

First of all the quetion aroused is of Mental disturbance of Mr. Abdul Azeez. I wonder how could people like you and like us have ever been following/praising the stipulations of mentally disturbed persons. Further, if the similar act would be done in two or three days by Rasheed Ghazi, would you also call him a mentally disturbed person? Then what the hell our beliefs are? We always try to give immense respect to all those men to whom we really feel AALIM or NOBLE. If any of our belief will go wrong then would we call any of such trusted man as mentally disturbed person. It is just a joke and an endeavor to save the skin of such maulvies from general discussion. Mental disturbance only worked to save his life from bullets and made him to refuge from the situation, that was created purely by him, leaving a number of innocent childern and females in the crises. What a purposeful mental disturbance is it?

I can agree that all such extremists are mentally disturbed but not in the way of an innocent mentally disturbed man. Mr. Amir said that there had been a big role of agencies in developing such minds. I fully agree to this point. I can just share an info which reached me through some official of ISI that every man who enters Islamabad, his vehicle number and timing of enterance is scanned at the checkposts by ISI (at Golra Shareef More and other places) and wherever required the doubted persons' information is checked in detail through NADRA or other resources. I dont know that whether or not this info is correct. However, I can believe that ISI and other agencies should have strict control on all intelligence informations. In the presence of a number of intelligence functioneries, such accumulation of ammunition and wanted criminals in LAL Masjid is really questionable.

Now coming to the issues that would be raised by other nations on BURQA and other Islamic signs. I agree that Yahood - o - Nasara always endeavor to harm the cause of Islam. Clear AHAADEES are available to guide us in this regard. But is it not quite shameful that all the efforts of Yahood-o-Nasara are always made using the hands of muslims? Would such muslims who create reasons to promote issues against Islam be announced as innocents. It is just ridiculous. Law is for every one and no one is above the writ of a government and law in an Islamic country. Very clear guidelines are available in Islam on these issues. No one can isolatedly define the rules and customs. IJMAH-e-Ummat is required to decide the conflicting matters. Islam is the most loving religion. It has laid down procedures for all the times to come. Negativity is never desired by Islam. Further, God prohibited muslim men to adopt the shape/outlook of women and prohibited women to adopt the shape of men. I wonder how Mr. Abdul Azeez adopted the outlook of a female by taking veil/BURQA? It is done by a Muslim and not by a Yahood. This is the thing which is more painful.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDIA BRAIN WASHING. MEDIA IS A BLESSING FOR THIS ERA, IF ANY ONE CAN UNDERSTAND. MAY GOD MAKE US TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS CORRECTLY. (Ameen).

So many ULEMAs like Mufti RAfi Usman sahib, Maulana Taqi Usmani sahib, Mufti Naeem sahib, General secretary Wafaq-ul-Madaaris Maulana Haneef Jalandhry sahib, every one has made his best efforts to resolve the matter and to educate Mr. Rasheed Ghazi, but ever one has so far been failed. They showed no respect for any of these AALIMS.

These big names of ULEMA have declared them to be extremely on wrong path. When I said them wrong, it was not only my statement. I took the opinion of ULEMAs who are really the noble persons and who dont use the name of Islam for negative intents. Naoozbillah.

By the way I agree to Mr. Shoaib that the act of Mr. Abdul Azeez is more shameful than Saddam.

I cannot understand why Mr. Amir is leaving this forum. He is our brother and is always welcomed to the forum activities. Difference of views should not be a thing which can hurt us so strongly unless we personally abuse each other that is totally un-ethical. However, in general life one thing could be extremely worst or wrong for me but at the same time it could be a justified one for another. So be here Mr. Amir. We need you.

May be you are right at your opinion. My humble request was only that please dont use such words for an Alim. And who is right and who is wrong the final authority for chosing it rest with al mighty God. My brother i respect your feelings and my self i know that these are responsible for the death of innocent childrens but we people dont have enough information about the true story and to rate that who is wrong who is right. if they people are asking for safe passage why is govt not allowing them a safe passage. If you go back to islamic history what are the teachings of our Holy Prophet (PBUH). Fatah e Makkah is a good example to quote here. By giving them a safe passage dont they able to save lives of hundreds of innocent people? Or is there any other option left behind. i dont think so

I no where objected in giving them any forgiveness or safe passage. However, this has nothing to do with providing of safe passage. This is mainly the rigidity of Rasheed Ghazi. Mr. SHujaat Ch offered him to be given a house arrest in some government guest house with full respect and regard.

In my view this could have been a maximum which is offerable. Our Ulemas have given them such offers and have asked them to hand over the innocents to Ulemas for safe passage and further education and brought up. Similar offers have been given by Sameea Raheel Qazi and Respected Mrs. Bilqees Edhi.

Now if the question is of safety then why this safety is needed by Rasheed Ghazi and his terrorist friends alone. Is life precious only for these terrorists? They are using the name of Islam and in that way they cannot be compared with the KUFFAR-E-MAKKAH who were kaafir and did not knew/beleived anything about God and Religion. Rasheed Ghazi and his fellows are after all muslims and have a detailed knowledge on everything. They cannot be compared with WEHSHI and HINDA. Why they need lives only for theirselves and not for the childern and women made hostage by them. Why life is very much AZEEZ to Rasheed Ghazi and why he feels that if he has to die then every one has to die? Is it Islam? What the picture of Islam these guys (SO-CALLED AALIMS) are showing to the non-muslims world. These, I again say, are not from "YAHOOD - O - NASARA" . Rather, these are muslims and assuch have become a cause of shame for all of us.

I heard some ULEMAs on TV who were again and again saying that these guys should be given a free passage. As far as my own idealogy is concerned I am not against this option. I believe that forgiving someone is by all means a best act. This is proved by the world's historical ever best incident of FATAH MAKKAH. But now question is little bit different. These guys (muslims) have become the cause of death for so many innocents who were also muslims. Forgiveness with some warning could be (but not necessarily) deemed better for Abdul Azeez who did not much involve in fighting against the Governemnt. But the man who says that he has no regard for government, innocent lives, ULEMAS, his Teachers and his friends, and has became the cause of death for innocent muslims should not be forgiven.

Government cannot alone forgive these men without the consent of those innocents who lost their loving ones due to the malicious acts of Rasheed Ghazi and his fellows. President has a prerogative to offer such forgiveness under the constitution of Pakistan. But ethically now such forgiveness could be seeked from the affectees and not only from President.

I feel that if these men will be relieved they will become the cause of so many undesired incidents and anarchy within the country. I dont wish that the terrorist of Lal Masjid should be relieved. Yes, they should be arrested and dealt under applicable laws.

Anyways, I am just a viewer like you and can pray only for the betterment of my country and muslim Ummah.

I donât know who is right nâ who is wrong so I wonât side either of the parties but one thing Iâm sure about is that this was a conspiracy against the Muslims. A question which is continuously bothering my mind is that how did all the âheavy weaponsâ come into the Capital? Where were all the law enforcing agencies at that time? Did they take the rocket launchers in the âburqazâ? Or were they so tiny to be transported in the âpocketsâ? When someone is constructing oneâs home in a housing society nâ places some sand or bricks etc on the road, the housing authorities take a serious notice of it nâ ask them to vacant the road nâ at the same time also fines him; where was CDA when the students of Lal Mosque were constructing the bunkers, as the bunkers have been there for some time? Where the CDA officials sleeping at that time? Where the so-called worldâs best investigating agencies ISI, was? Doesnât it seem that it was all preplanned? Huh, not to say about the insecurity of the rest of the country, even the Capital is not safe.

The âdramaâ being played by the enemies of Islam nâ Pakistan, seems to end very soon now. The âDirector, Producer nâ all the other characters of the Dramaâ are wise enough to have connected all the episodes in a timely manner nâ have played a major role to conclude it âsuccessfullyâ nâ surely they would have achieved the âdesired resultsâ in the form of worsening the image of Islam, Muslims nâ Pakistanis.
âA big shame on every such Pakistani who has taken part in this âbhondiâ activityâ nâ
âMay the Directors, Producers, characters nâ all those involved in making this Drama a âhit dramaâ be directed to hell nâ remain there foreverâ. Amin . . . . . . . . .!!!

First of all the quetion aroused is of Mental disturbance of Mr. Abdul Azeez. I wonder how could people like you and like us have ever been following/praising the stipulations of mentally disturbed persons. Further, if the similar act would be done in two or three days by Rasheed Ghazi, would you also call him a mentally disturbed person? Then what the hell our beliefs are? We always try to give immense respect to all those men to whom we really feel AALIM or NOBLE. If any of our belief will go wrong then would we call any of such trusted man as mentally disturbed person. It is just a joke and an endeavor to save the skin of such maulvies from general discussion. Mental disturbance only worked to save his life from bullets and made him to refuge from the situation, that was created purely by him, leaving a number of innocent childern and females in the crises. What a purposeful mental disturbance is it?

I can agree that all such extremists are mentally disturbed but not in the way of an innocent mentally disturbed man. Mr. Amir said that there had been a big role of agencies in developing such minds. I fully agree to this point. I can just share an info which reached me through some official of ISI that every man who enters Islamabad, his vehicle number and timing of enterance is scanned at the checkposts by ISI (at Golra Shareef More and other places) and wherever required the doubted persons' information is checked in detail through NADRA or other resources. I dont know that whether or not this info is correct. However, I can believe that ISI and other agencies should have strict control on all intelligence informations. In the presence of a number of intelligence functioneries, such accumulation of ammunition and wanted criminals in LAL Masjid is really questionable.

Now coming to the issues that would be raised by other nations on BURQA and other Islamic signs. I agree that Yahood - o - Nasara always endeavor to harm the cause of Islam. Clear AHAADEES are available to guide us in this regard. But is it not quite shameful that all the efforts of Yahood-o-Nasara are always made using the hands of muslims? Would such muslims who create reasons to promote issues against Islam be announced as innocents. It is just ridiculous. Law is for every one and no one is above the writ of a government and law in an Islamic country. Very clear guidelines are available in Islam on these issues. No one can isolatedly define the rules and customs. IJMAH-e-Ummat is required to decide the conflicting matters. Islam is the most loving religion. It has laid down procedures for all the times to come. Negativity is never desired by Islam. Further, God prohibited muslim men to adopt the shape/outlook of women and prohibited women to adopt the shape of men. I wonder how Mr. Abdul Azeez adopted the outlook of a female by taking veil/BURQA? It is done by a Muslim and not by a Yahood. This is the thing which is more painful.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MEDIA BRAIN WASHING. MEDIA IS A BLESSING FOR THIS ERA, IF ANY ONE CAN UNDERSTAND. MAY GOD MAKE US TO UNDERSTAND THE THINGS CORRECTLY. (Ameen).

So many ULEMAs like Mufti RAfi Usman sahib, Maulana Taqi Usmani sahib, Mufti Naeem sahib, General secretary Wafaq-ul-Madaaris Maulana Haneef Jalandhry sahib, every one has made his best efforts to resolve the matter and to educate Mr. Rasheed Ghazi, but ever one has so far been failed. They showed no respect for any of these AALIMS.

These big names of ULEMA have declared them to be extremely on wrong path. When I said them wrong, it was not only my statement. I took the opinion of ULEMAs who are really the noble persons and who dont use the name of Islam for negative intents. Naoozbillah.

By the way I agree to Mr. Shoaib that the act of Mr. Abdul Azeez is more shameful than Saddam.

I cannot understand why Mr. Amir is leaving this forum. He is our brother and is always welcomed to the forum activities. Difference of views should not be a thing which can hurt us so strongly unless we personally abuse each other that is totally un-ethical. However, in general life one thing could be extremely worst or wrong for me but at the same time it could be a justified one for another. So be here Mr. Amir. We need you.

May be you are right at your opinion. My humble request was only that please dont use such words for an Alim. And who is right and who is wrong the final authority for chosing it rest with al mighty God. My brother i respect your feelings and my self i know that these are responsible for the death of innocent childrens but we people dont have enough information about the true story and to rate that who is wrong who is right. if they people are asking for safe passage why is govt not allowing them a safe passage. If you go back to islamic history what are the teachings of our Holy Prophet (PBUH). Fatah e Makkah is a good example to quote here. By giving them a safe passage dont they able to save lives of hundreds of innocent people? Or is there any other option left behind. i dont think so
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></font id="quote"></blockquote id="quote">

Mr Kamran i agree to you on some of the things. Like when u say about role of Media (only private tv channels and not PTV) and respect of Ulemas, wrong way of Ghazi brothers. But i will not second the govt operation against these people. Being a viewer, i can see, and it was obvious to many others that Ghazi Rasheed was much willing to fianlize the matter with talks only. He was the actuall person who was trying to avoid the blood shed. He got much flexible. But i am sorry that our govt was hard as stone. Musharaf had planned everything before hand and wanted to bring them to death at any cost. This thought is entirely shameful and not friendly at all. He did a cruel act and he should be punished hard for this. Majority of Pakistan public, including all Ulema'e Deen, were in favor of leting them go, forgiving them, or agreeing to their demands. If there was someone not agreeing, that was Musharaf and ofcourse Mr. Bush.

I wont talk much about Moulana Abdul Aziz, as i did not find him a genuine person, as far as my face reading and judgment is concerned. bUt Late Ghazi RAsheed seemed to be much soft hearted and sensible person. he was true and loyal to his students and that is why he did not leave them all alone. i heard on ARY One, that Imam of Kabba said that there was a person who played an important role in creating misunderstandings between the two brothers. He avoided to disclose the name of that person.

I am also in the favor that there were definitely govt agencies or high personals involoved in all this matter but i believe that only innocents got killed and the culprits, the responsibles, once again came out of everything with clean hands.

I dont have anything to do with Ghazi brothers, neither with Govt but as an out veiwer, i strongly feel that Govt had been totally wrong in her actions and this makes the Late Ghazi Rasheed blameless. He will be always remembered in good words.

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Tahoma, Arial" id="quote">quote<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by Astute Accountant</i>
<br />The âdramaâ being played by the enemies of Islam nâ Pakistan, seems to end very soon now. The âDirector, Producer nâ all the other characters of the Dramaâ are wise enough to have connected all the episodes in a timely manner nâ have played a major role to conclude it âsuccessfullyâ nâ surely they would have achieved the âdesired resultsâ in the form of worsening the image of Islam, Muslims nâ Pakistanis.
âA big shame on every such Pakistani who has taken part in this âbhondiâ activityâ nâ
âMay the Directors, Producers, characters nâ all those involved in making this Drama a âhit dramaâ be directed to hell nâ remain there foreverâ. Amin . . . . . . . . .!!!

This is true that Pakistan mein last few years mein Fahashi bohat ziyada bharr gaiee hai. This is the result of Musharaf's so called Modern islam charcha. Our religion Islam is fully fit for all type of eras, periods - modern or backward.