...it seems that we should NOT be critical of the WR screens because they are such an effective part of our arsenal and success.

they average 6 yeards per attempt!!!!1!!!1!!!!!! :jawdrop: ZOMG!!!

:sofunny:

heres the basic premise- anybody who critisized arians and the ingenious bubble screens is pretty much a braindead yinzer who couldnt possibly understand anything about x's and o's or situational football. why is this?

arians calls 12 bubble screens-

1 goes for 36 yards
1 goes for 26 yards
the others 10 go for a yard apiece courtesey of the wr simply falling forward as soon as he is hit at the LOS.

36+26+10(1)=72/12 plays= 6 yards per play

brilliant! :applaudit: great play!

of course the mathematical example aboev is just slightly a bit simplified and skewed for emphasis, but serves a point as to how the original data and research for this wacky contention is just the same.

according to this logic, arians is a complete moron for not abandoning the running game altogether (which averaged a respectable 4.4 yards per play) and completely replacing it with the bubble screen and doubly deserved to be fired! :doh:

heres the link which has spawned the joke being spewed by arians supporters-

(dave at steelersdepot is one of the best at breakdowns and stats. he works devotedly for countless hours to provide some of the best steelers game and team related info that can be found on the net. his site is pretty much a 1 stop shop for all info steelers. with that being said, just like everybody, anybody can have a bias and force an opinion with an agenda. dave is pretty much a self admittde [and i would say 1 of the biggest] arians apologists out there. that doesnt discredit his research in any way, it just states what many have said before- stats can be twisted to prove the absurd... even something as absurd as the bubble screen beeing an effective play.)

Wallace108

01-21-2012, 01:44 AM

I see this the same way you do, tony.
Using stats to try to show that the bubble screen is really an effective play just doesn't fly.

There were 45 screens. And the conclusion is that they averaged 6 yards per attempt, therefore, it's a great play. The problem is that 5 of the 45 screens went for yards of 26, 19, 16, 16, and 19. Those five plays were enough to skew the average.

Let's say John Clay carries the ball 5 times in a game. On his first four carries, he gets 10 yards. Then on his fifth carry, there's a huge hole and he scampers for a 90-yard TD. He ends the day with 5 carries for 100 yards. Does that mean he's a great back and should be starting? Hell, he's averaging 20 yards per carry.

Just looking at stats can be very misleading.

Bayz101

01-21-2012, 02:04 AM

I see this the same way you do, tony.
Using stats to try to show that the bubble screen is really an effective play just doesn't fly.

There were 45 screens. And the conclusion is that they averaged 6 yards per attempt, therefore, it's a great play. The problem is that 5 of the 45 screens went for yards of 26, 19, 16, 16, and 19. Those five plays were enough to skew the average.

Let's say John Clay carries the ball 5 times in a game. On his first four carries, he gets 10 yards. Then on his fifth carry, there's a huge hole and he scampers for a 90-yard TD. He ends the day with 5 carries for 100 yards. Does that mean he's a great back and should be starting? Hell, he's averaging 20 yards per carry.

Just looking at stats can be very misleading.

Who was it, Supy? Was he the one that tried to justify this bubble screen crap with the 6.0 yards per attempt :chuckle:

MACH1

01-21-2012, 02:09 AM

...it seems that we should NOT be critical of the WR screens because they are such an effective part of our arsenal and success.

they average 6 yeards per attempt!!!!1!!!1!!!!!! :jawdrop: ZOMG!!!

:sofunny:

heres the basic premise- anybody who critisized arians and the ingenious bubble screens is pretty much a braindead yinzer who couldnt possibly understand anything about x's and o's or situational football. why is this?

arians calls 12 bubble screens-

1 goes for 36 yards
1 goes for 26 yards
the others 10 go for a yard apiece courtesey of the wr simply falling forward as soon as he is hit at the LOS.

36+26+10(1)=72/12 plays= 6 yards per play

brilliant! :applaudit: great play!

of course the mathematical example aboev is just slightly a bit simplified and skewed for emphasis, but serves a point as to how the original data and research for this wacky contention is just the same.

according to this logic, arians is a complete moron for not abandoning the running game altogether (which averaged a respectable 4.4 yards per play) and completely replacing it with the bubble screen and doubly deserved to be fired! :doh:

heres the link which has spawned the joke being spewed by arians supporters-

(dave at steelersdepot is one of the best at breakdowns and stats. he works devotedly for countless hours to provide some of the best steelers game and team related info that can be found on the net. his site is pretty much a 1 stop shop for all info steelers. with that being said, just like everybody, anybody can have a bias and force an opinion with an agenda. dave is pretty much a self admittde [and i would say 1 of the biggest] arians apologists out there. that doesnt discredit his research in any way, it just states what many have said before- stats can be twisted to prove the absurd... even something as absurd as the bubble screen beeing an effective play.)

Peeper. :toofunny:
As someone said get out the arians excuse rollodex.

Who was it, Supy? Was he the one that tried to justify this bubble screen crap with the 6.0 yards per attempt :chuckle:

Nope, it was not. Wrong site. :chuckle:

TRH

01-21-2012, 09:12 AM

not only that, but toward the end of the season, EVERYONE, announcers, fans at home, opposing defenses, all could see it well before the ball was snapped (and we still took the snap count clock down to zero, further letting the defenses have a look and getting ready to squash it).

6RingsAndCounting

01-21-2012, 10:24 AM

6 Yards per play doesn't help when you run it on 3rd and 10

former RB

01-21-2012, 10:29 AM

not only that, but toward the end of the season, EVERYONE, announcers, fans at home, opposing defenses, all could see it well before the ball was snapped (and we still took the snap count clock down to zero, further letting the defenses have a look and getting ready to squash it).

I'll bet you ANYTHING that those WR quick screens are "AUDIBLES".
Why?, becauase they are red light plays when the defense crowds the line, the safetys are 2 deep, and the corners are soft to keep everything in front of them.

I know they are audibles because i see Ben kill and send a man in motion. The only other play Ben red lights to is a Draw. A QB only audibles to a quick Wr screen when the D is showing a red dog, and the safetys are 2 deep in case the corners gamble, and the corners are taking away quick slants and looking to JUMP the hooks, curls, hitchs,and stops.
But if a run play was called in the huddle on a long yardage situation, you don't audible to a WR red light screen. You run your play. But then, who calls run plays in long yardage unless its first down.

100% of those quick screens are audibles called by Ben. No OC calls them because they are NOT attack plays - THEY ARE RED LIGHT PLAYS.

IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME, ASK A HIGH SCHOOL QB. THIS IS ELEMENTARY SCHOOL FOOTBALL !!!!!!!!!!

Yes, its true, teams have red light plays to audible to if the play they called won't fly because the D is in a sell out blitz and corners soft, and saftys in deep. THE ONLY OTHER OPTION IS TO AUDIBLE TO A QUICK DIG ROUTE. BUT THE CORNER USUALLY MAKES THE WR PAY FOR IT WITH A HARD SHOT TO THE KIDNEYS.

former RB

01-21-2012, 10:46 AM

6 Yards per play doesn't help when you run it on 3rd and 10

Thats the whole idea behind calling an audible to a WR screen. You run it against aggressive D in long yardage. The D usually crowds the line with 7 and sends 6. The corners play off to take away the slants, the safetys are 2 deep in case corners gamble and try to jump routes. D only aligns like that in long yardage because the offense is bound to throw. The QB only has limited choices, the Best choice is to get the ball to a Wr and use the other two WR's to block. If the WR can make a guy misss, it can be a big play until a safety runs him down. A Draw is a surprize red light audible, and a dig will get your WR hurt.

6RingsAndCounting

01-21-2012, 10:50 AM

Thats the whole idea behind calling an audible to a WR screen. You run it against aggressive D in long yardage. The D usually crowds the line with 7 and sends 6. The corners play off to take away the slants, the safetys are 2 deep in case corners gamble and try to jump routes. D only aligns like that in long yardage because the offense is bound to throw. The QB only has limited choices, the Best choice is to get the ball to a Wr and use the other two WR's to block. If the WR can make a guy misss, it can be a big play until a safety runs him down. A Draw is a surprize red light audible, and a dig will get your WR hurt.

This helps prove a point, if the fans can see what they are going to do, then the guys on the other side of the ball that watch film all week are sure as hell going to know what's coming when wallace comes across in motion.

StainlessStill

01-21-2012, 10:59 AM

...it seems that we should NOT be critical of the WR screens because they are such an effective part of our arsenal and success.

they average 6 yeards per attempt!!!!1!!!1!!!!!! :jawdrop: ZOMG!!!

:sofunny:

heres the basic premise- anybody who critisized arians and the ingenious bubble screens is pretty much a braindead yinzer who couldnt possibly understand anything about x's and o's or situational football. why is this?

arians calls 12 bubble screens-

1 goes for 36 yards
1 goes for 26 yards
the others 10 go for a yard apiece courtesey of the wr simply falling forward as soon as he is hit at the LOS.

36+26+10(1)=72/12 plays= 6 yards per play

brilliant! :applaudit: great play!

of course the mathematical example aboev is just slightly a bit simplified and skewed for emphasis, but serves a point as to how the original data and research for this wacky contention is just the same.

according to this logic, arians is a complete moron for not abandoning the running game altogether (which averaged a respectable 4.4 yards per play) and completely replacing it with the bubble screen and doubly deserved to be fired! :doh:

heres the link which has spawned the joke being spewed by arians supporters-

(dave at steelersdepot is one of the best at breakdowns and stats. he works devotedly for countless hours to provide some of the best steelers game and team related info that can be found on the net. his site is pretty much a 1 stop shop for all info steelers. with that being said, just like everybody, anybody can have a bias and force an opinion with an agenda. dave is pretty much a self admittde [and i would say 1 of the biggest] arians apologists out there. that doesnt discredit his research in any way, it just states what many have said before- stats can be twisted to prove the absurd... even something as absurd as the bubble screen beeing an effective play.)

Ah, 6 yards. One yard LESS than the retarded 3rd and 7 in Denver that resulted in a couple yards on the short side of the field on one of our opening drives. This play has done NOTHING but harm outside of a few gains here or there. It cost us the AFC NORTH Division and a first round BYE.

tony hipchest

01-21-2012, 11:54 AM

6 Yards per play doesn't help when you run it on 3rd and 10well heres the kicker in steelerdepos study...

bruce NEVER runs the bubble screen on 3rd down. only once in 45 times all year.

holy predictability, Batman! could it get any easier for the defense? no wonder they always see it coming. :doh:

and the 2 safety deep is crap. they run it when they wanna run it regardless of the defense (bruce admits as much).

there towards the end of the year, there were always 4 players there to defend it so you can toss the 2 safety deep and 7 men at the LOS theory out the window.

Steelerfreak58

01-21-2012, 12:01 PM

You know your in trouble when the announcers can smell the Bubble Screen called before the snap.

tony hipchest

01-21-2012, 01:23 PM

Peeper. :toofunny:
As someone said get out the arians excuse rollodex.

Nope, it was not. Wrong site. :chuckle:

:laughing: actually steelersdepot is one of my favorite sites and follows on twitter. dave is ALWAYS ontop of everything steelers and for the most part always on point with his takes. his podcasts rock (secures good player interviews) and he's got a good presense on the local radio.

naturally his research has attracted arians nieces and nephews like moths to the flame as if he's found the golden ticket to arians redemption. arians nation can be found quoting the great 6 yard bubble screen all over da internetz.

its no suprize the usual suspects have followed suit (pun intended). i always told myself there are 2 times i'd go back to watch the inevitable head exploding meltdown... when arians is fired, and again when obama is re-elected. :toofunny:

plus i got a running bet how long until "ARIANS is a forbidden word on certain sites and any discussion is forbidden, plus how many members are immediately banned for continued discussion.

im already losing... my bet was immediately. :noidea:

anyways, in this case, i think dave at steelers depot is really reaching with his research to push a personal preference agenda. jim wexell summed up the local media market nicely-

jimwexell
Always amusing how ballwashers in Pgh media portray Arians' critics as yinzers who couldn't understand X&O complexities, as if they do.

i have always maintained my own bit of research which i have yet to hear ANYBODY dispute-

1. you can count on 1 hand how many times a bruce arians offense was capable of scoring more than 4 offensive touchdowns in a single game. (never more than 5 td's). that is pathetic.

2. in 2009 when we missed the playoffs as SB defending champs, our defense held the opposition to 2 offensive td's or fewer in 12 of 16 games. Bruce arians offense failed to score more than 2 offensive touchdowns in 12 of 16 games.

3. in his 5th year bruce arians offense has regressed to 21st in the league in scoring. qb's such as flacco, andy dalton, and mark sanchez, have just as impressive td/int stats as big ben. qb's like matthew stafford and eli manning look better.

:banging: our offense hit a wall. progression was done. the project was not going to get better or continue to evolve.

one only needs to take a look at the regression of mike wallace to see that and steelerdepots take that part of the problem was maybe we didnt throw MORE bubble screens to wallace. :doh: :screwy:

buh bye bruce. :wave:

time for ben to grab some kleenex, man up, and learn some new shit.

ricardisimo

01-21-2012, 02:27 PM

Look, the bubble screen is a gadget play, pure and simple. Like most gadget plays, it's effectiveness wanes the more you use it.

Using it occasionally, after some deep throws to Wallace pushes the safeties back and the corners playing off, makes some kind of sense... if you're throwing it to Wallace. But then you are banking on Wallace's speed and athleticism being able to make up for starting from zero at the LoS, rather than catching him in stride across the middle or along the chalk.

But of course, throwing it to your slowest receiver (Hines) completely defeats whatever purpose you thought you were serving, and really only speaks to Bruce Arians' need to "trick" the opposition.

And of course, the more you use it, the more you are guaranteeing that some of the brighter safeties and linebackers are going to eventually sniff it out and take it for six. It's a disaster waiting to happen, and all for the purpose of a highly suspect 6-yard average.

MACH1

01-21-2012, 02:34 PM

its no suprize the usual suspects have followed suit (pun intended). i always told myself there are 2 times i'd go back to watch the inevitable head exploding meltdown... when arians is fired, and again when obama is re-elected.

well you'll have 1 outa 2, not to bad. :wink:

tony hipchest

01-21-2012, 03:05 PM

Look, the bubble screen is a gadget play, pure and simple. Like most gadget plays, it's effectiveness wanes the more you use it.

Using it occasionally, after some deep throws to Wallace pushes the safeties back and the corners playing off, makes some kind of sense... if you're throwing it to Wallace. But then you are banking on Wallace's speed and athleticism being able to make up for starting from zero at the LoS, rather than catching him in stride across the middle or along the chalk.

But of course, throwing it to your slowest receiver (Hines) completely defeats whatever purpose you thought you were serving, and really only speaks to Bruce Arians' need to "trick" the opposition.

And of course, the more you use it, the more you are guaranteeing that some of the brighter safeties and linebackers are going to eventually sniff it out and take it for six. It's a disaster waiting to happen, and all for the purpose of a highly suspect 6-yard average.totally agree. throwing a quick slant to wallace also makes sense, but that appears to be a gadget play in arians offense as well, unless he has just been relegated to being that "one trick pony".

the banana bunch with 3 wr's typically bunched to the right is another good arians play and phil simms is right when he says it is effective and suprised more teams dont use it. i think many fans confuse this formation with the bubble screen. more teams dont use it cause they dont have the correct wr's. it certainly helps when you have hines ward who is the most dominant blocking wr in the nfl. this play is usually successfull and guaranteed to get a guy open on a quick pass. but if we used it all the time, it would begin to lose its effectiveness.

when arians announces to the rest of the league (and his teams owner) that the bubble screen is his bread and butter substitute/suppliment to the run game, he is just being flat out IDIOTIC and deserves to be fired for insubbordinance.

steelersdepot probably took about 3 hours to come up with his bubble screen research for the 45 that were run this year (44 run on 1st or 2nd down).

there are scouts, coaching assistants and quality control people who do this every hour of every day as their JOB. they know exactly when and what down and distance bruce is gonna call not only them, but most of his plays. when a play IS successfull it is basically due to the skill of our players beating a teams that already knows what is coming. bruce doesnt trick anybody. he's not clever. he cant scheme a win to save his life.

that is why he is gone.

well you'll have 1 outa 2, not to bad. :wink:

:chuckle: so are you suggesting i may never have to visit the sink hole again??? :danceshout: unfortunately, i doubt that. :wink02:

tanda10506

01-21-2012, 04:14 PM

well you'll have 1 outa 2, not to bad. :wink:

:tt03::tt03::tt03:

The fact that somebody tried defending the same bubble screen that Phil Sims called out every time we ran it makes me have less hope for mankind as a whole. Ignorance is just running rampant these days.