Yes. I think it's fair to say that perhaps Amazon under represents XB1, over represents BB sales, or even both. But over 300k seems like a fair projection to make, even allowing for a lot of slop in those ratios.

Senior Analyst, Fanboy Drivel Research Partners LLC

If Bloodborne is niche, everything is niche. BB is exactly what a lot of people wanted after they discovered and played Souls games thanks to YT and such, it was a safe shot for Sony and the biggest risk they took was to drop the "Souls" word from the title, really.

Bloodborne is the very definition of niche. It appeals to the hardest of the core gamers, those who enjoy punishing challenge. The fact that most of the active posters on this forum find the game compelling does not make it mainstream.

Banned

Bloodborne is the very definition of niche. It appeals to the hardest of the core gamers, those who enjoy punishing challenge. The fact that most of the active posters on this forum find the game compelling does not make it mainstream.

No, niche is a strategy/marketing term that refers to a specific segment of audience. Targeting at a niche is one of the three generic strategies for success, and that is exactly what Bloodborne is doing: it is targeted at the hardcore gamer niche, it is positioned extremely well and it sells amazingly, because it hits all the right notes.

Member

Bloodborne is the very definition of niche. It appeals to the hardest of the core gamers, those who enjoy punishing challenge. The fact that most of the active posters on this forum find the game compelling does not make it mainstream.

Sales do not determine a niche either, not completely, because they're influenced by other factors (marketing, reviews, platform, price..). Quantum Theory was the bad copy of Gears of War, it was exactly what people wanted back then, and it still sold like shit.. it doesn't mean it was a niche game.
Minecraft sold millions but it was a niche game back when it released.

No, niche is a strategy/marketing term that refers to a specific segment of audience. Targeting at a niche is one of the three generic strategies for success, and that is exactly what Bloodborne is doing: it is targeted at the hardcore gamer niche, it is positioned extremely well and it sells amazingly, because it hits all the right notes.

You're targeting a niche the moment you release a game that's not what the market is asking for, in my opinion. This applies to different games at different years to different cultures: FPS was a niche genre, now it isn't; platform was not, now it is, same for graphic adventures and so on. Yakuza is niche here, not in Japan, Games with no multiplayer, open world games, all things that matter and I could go on. Bloodborne right now, as well as DS2 was, is very far from this definition of niche. People are asking for this kind of game, there's a big audience out there even if smaller compared to many others. If BB is niche, what about The Wonderful 101? What about a puzzle game, Bayonetta?
You're talking from a marketing point of view, which makes sense, but I never liked that definition because I don't feel it works properly since everything is targeted to a niche at this point, some bigger than others, while what we generally mean for niche is different. I think that when people on the internet say "niche", they're talking about a Disgaea kind of niche, that very specific, small portion of gamers. Or the gamers that buy Nier, or Catherine for example.

Banned

Wait, seriously? How far away is the Wii U from 10 million? At this rate, it would be extremely lucky to even reach 15 million at the end of its cycle, especially if NX, whatever it is, releases next year.

Banned

Wait, seriously? How far away is the Wii U from 10 million? At this rate, it would be extremely lucky to even reach 15 million at the end of its cycle, especially if NX, whatever it is, releases next year.

Wait, seriously? How far away is the Wii U from 10 million? At this rate, it would be extremely lucky to even reach 15 million at the end of its cycle, especially if NX, whatever it is, releases next year.

How many games are out and will be out from January to June? With the lack of third party games, first party games should play a really important role in sales. And Zelda got pushed to next year, right?

Member

How many games are out and will be out from January to June? With the lack of third party games, first party games should play a really important role in sales. And Zelda got pushed to next year, right?

TLG Fan Caretaker Est. 2009

Jeez, that is horrible. How did Nintendo screw up so bad after the phenomenal Wii? Is lack of third party support the main reason?

How many games are out and will be out from January to June? With the lack of third party games, first party games should play a really important role in sales. And Zelda got pushed to next year, right?

Nah, it's just that the device was not designed correctly from the beginning. Nintendo had three main advantages with the Wii: for people who wanted to play games, it was the cheapest, it was the most accessible, and it had the widest variety of games. For all but the most "core" of the "core" (and they were going to buy it anyway), Wii was the best option. Given the changing gaming landscape over the last 10 years, all of those advantages are completely gone. Games are now free; Nintendo cannot do better than that. Games are more accessible than ever (they are always with you and are paired with your necessary lifestyle devices); Nintendo cannot do better than that. They do not have a variety advantage; Nintendo has not built an ecosystem to support games like Flappy Bird alongside games like Candy Crush alongside Infinity Blade so they are not present.

There are lots of other contributing reasons. The price is too high, the software selection is weak overall and many acclaimed titles have little mainstream appeal, the design of the thing itself is gimmicky, and the concept is done better by real tablet manufacturers.

I don't think I've ever bought into "PR" as a reason for anything doing badly or doing well, but even if there were counterexamples here and there, generally speaking good PR is not going to move the needle (and bad PR is not going to sink a blockbuster). Wii U was just a failure on every level. It's designed for an audience it can't win. If anything, the sales of the Wii U have been absolutely useful. We now know there are approximately 10 million (max 15 million) diehard Nintendo fans in the world.

edit: Nintendo designing mobile games is a big recognition that they lost their "big 3" advantage but the real test will be what NX looks like. I suspect that Nintendo reversing its fortunes is going to make a lot of people unhappy (and longer term I see absolutely no way they do not shift dramatically with the industry), but I think ultimately nearly every 18-35 year old male is going to be unhappy anyway.

Member

You're targeting a niche the moment you release a game that's not what the market is asking for, in my opinion. This applies to different games at different years to different cultures: FPS was a niche genre, now it isn't; platform was not, now it is, same for graphic adventures and so on. Yakuza is niche here, not in Japan, Games with no multiplayer, open world games, all things that matter and I could go on. Bloodborne right now, as well as DS2 was, is very far from this definition of niche. People are asking for this kind of game, there's a big audience out there even if smaller compared to many others. If BB is niche, what about The Wonderful 101? What about a puzzle game, Bayonetta?
You're talking from a marketing point of view, which makes sense, but I never liked that definition because I don't feel it works properly since everything is targeted to a niche at this point, some bigger than others, while what we generally mean for niche is different. I think that when people on the internet say "niche", they're talking about a Disgaea kind of niche, that very specific, small portion of gamers. Or the gamers that buy Nier, or Catherine for example.

By your definition, neither graphic adventures nor platformers are niche either because a good number of people buy Telltale's graphic adventures and Nintendo's platformers. Nintendo systems aren't doing that well, but certainly, Mario is still selling pretty well despite that. In addition, puzzle games aren't niche... They just moved to mobile and became Free with IAPs. The way I see it the Souls games are in this weird state where they certainly would be niche if compared to the games people usually hype up, but unlike say Platinum's games, they end up actually selling to a decent amount of people.

Banned

Nah, it's just that the device was not designed correctly from the beginning. Nintendo had three main advantages with the Wii: for people who wanted to play games, it was the cheapest, it was the most accessible, and it had the widest variety of games. For all but the most "core" of the "core" (and they were going to buy it anyway), Wii was the best option. Given the changing gaming landscape over the last 10 years, all of those advantages are completely gone. Games are now free; Nintendo cannot do better than that. Games are more accessible than ever (they are always with you and are paired with your necessary lifestyle devices); Nintendo cannot do better than that. They do not have a variety advantage; Nintendo has not built an ecosystem to support games like Flappy Bird alongside games like Candy Crush alongside Infinity Blade so they are not present.

There are lots of other contributing reasons. The price is too high, the software selection is weak overall and many acclaimed titles have little mainstream appeal, the design of the thing itself is gimmicky, and the concept is done better by real tablet manufacturers.

I don't think I've ever bought into "PR" as a reason for anything doing badly or doing well, but even if there were counterexamples here and there, generally speaking good PR is not going to move the needle (and bad PR is not going to sink a blockbuster). Wii U was just a failure on every level. It's designed for an audience it can't win. If anything, the sales of the Wii U have been absolutely useful. We now know there are approximately 10 million (max 15 million) diehard Nintendo fans in the world.

edit: Nintendo designing mobile games is a big recognition that they lost their "big 3" advantage but the real test will be what NX looks like. I suspect that Nintendo reversing its fortunes is going to make a lot of people unhappy (and longer term I see absolutely no way they do not shift dramatically with the industry), but I think ultimately nearly every 18-35 year old male is going to be unhappy anyway.

Excellent post. You're right, I forgot the most important reason. Nintendo is still trying to chase the casual gamers who formed a large majority of the Wii owners. Unfortunately for them, those gamers all moved on to smartphones and tablets. I've always seen the Wii U as gimmicky anyway and I have little interest in anything gimmicky in general. But VR is probably the exception because it will offer a whole new level of immersion.

That is incredible, how two consoles are pretty much irrelevant in such little time. Going to be interesting to see where the PS4 is at when the XB1 reached 1 million in Germany, could see PS4 at 3 million minimum.

Member

That is incredible, how two consoles are pretty much irrelevant in such little time. Going to be interesting to see where the PS4 is at when the XB1 reached 1 million in Germany, could see PS4 at 3 million minimum.