I kneaded in KA for 7-8 min with spiral hook, fermented for 2 hours-ish, balled and then transfered to fridge. Pulled them out 2 hrs or so before stretching. I'm using Sam's club bakers & chefs bread flour.

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scott123

7-8 in the KA could be too long for a cold fermented dough. A good rule of thumb for any long fermented (more than overnight) dough is to take it to somewhere between a cottage cheese appearance and smooth, but not entirely smooth.

Also, this is Sam's Club 'bread' flour, not their 'high gluten' flour, correct? Here's a shot of the high gluten bag:

Scott - yes, more than 6 hours. I won't KA it as long next time. This is the regular brad flour, not the high gluten one. I just ran out of flour and was thinking about trying the high gluten one, for my setup, would you think the bread or high gluten would be more appropriate for the style?

I was able to find a local place today that was able to make me a steel plate to my exact specs, so had to try making a couple pizzas on it. Got one for my dad too, he made these dough's yesterday following Lehmann's recipe.

Preheated the oven for about 50 minutes at 550, temp of the steel before turning the broiler on was around 590. The first one was cooked for about a minute with the broiler on, then for about another 3.5 minutes, it was undercooked, crust was a bit tough, tasted good but dough could have been better. This dough was made mainly with KA Bread Flour but evidently he ran a bit short and had to use about 3/4 cup KA AP too.

The second pizza was much better, used broiler for about 2 minutes and ended up cooking it for about 7 minutes total. This dough was made using entirely KA Bread Flour. Perhaps the bottom could have been a bit crispier but it got decent char and was much better than the first.

I'm going to make some doughs for this weekend that get at least 48 hours in the fridge rather than just 24 hours and see what the results are. His broiler was electric, mine is gas so will be interested to see any differences. Mine also only goes up to 525 while on broiler and 500 when just baking. His went up to 550 on both. Anyways here is a link to pics from the 2nd pizza, didn't get any of the first.

Communist...Your pies look absolutely amazing. I read through the entire thread regarding the use of steel and found a local source that is cutting me a 16 x 16 x 1/2 piece. It seems you have pretty much mastered the use of the steel in making your pies. Would you mind updating the thread with the latest dough recipe you are using. This will be my first dive into Neop. style pies and by replicating your setup, would like to see if I can produce pies similar to the results you are having. Cheers, Mike

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scott123

I was able to find a local place today that was able to make me a steel plate to my exact specs, so had to try making a couple pizzas on it. Got one for my dad too, he made these dough's yesterday following Lehmann's recipe.

Colin, that's a very impressive first bake with steel. It usually takes a bit of a learning curve to dial it in, but you got up to speed in no time.

The bake times and the temps seem a bit off. Just to clarify, this is

1/2" steel plate- a36 hot rolled, correct?Launched with a peel590- read with a IR thermometer4 minutes total time on the plate (and then 7)

Could you post your recipe?

1/2" steel, at 590, should burn the undercrust in less than 3 minutes.

scott123

Mike, cold rolled is costly and doesn't provide any additional benefit to baking. Hot rolled is the way to go.

Btw, 1/2" steel plate can't do Neapolitan pizza in a typical 550-ish home oven. If Neapolitan pizza is your goal, you should be looking at other materials. Before you do that, though, you need to take a long hard look at your broiler- wattage, number of passes, etc. If your broiler isn't strong enough to produce Neapolitan leoparding, then you'll be better off using steel for NY style pies.

Thanks Scott. Yes, I have a standard 550 electric oven. I will use the steel and go the NY route and work on practicing my dough handling techniques through the winter. I have been debating on whether or not to use a stone or steel. The steel looks like it will suit my needs until Spring when I am going to buy a house. I will then have more flexibility on what tools/ovens/etc to use. I am new to baking but treating it as a serious hobby. I tend to be a perfectionist and it seems I have found company around here to help me along the way!!!

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scott123

Mike, I think Mark (Communist) is doing picture perfect examples of NY pizzas that have a little bit of the undercrust char that makes Neapolitan great, so if Neapolitan is your ultimate goal, emulating Mark's recipe/methods is definitely a worthy task.

I'm not sure what a36 means when it comes to steel, when I called and spoke with the place that made it they said it was hot rolled steel though.

Yes it was launched with a wooden peel lightly dusted with semolina. I picked up a IR thermometer yesterday (great purchase) and if I remember correctly it was right around 590, and yes just a few seconds over 4 minutes total time on the first pizza which was good but not great and 7 min for the one in the pictures. This was all done in an oven that I'm not entirely used to using, and the doughs were made by my dad, I'm not sure of his exact recipe but he told me he was following a Lehmann's he found here on the site and that he had measured it down to the ounce. He's good at making doughs and taught me a lot of what I know so I trust his methods.

I will get more detailed exact info on the doughs I make tonight and plate temps when I cook this weekend in my oven that I'm used to using and see what kind of results that I get. I'm planning on adding small amounts of oil and sugar to these doughs which I normally don't do, maybe I'll make a batch of my regular method too.

I found a place online where I was able to purchase some All Trumps Bromated flour as I can't seem to find it anywhere near me in Indiana, but until it arrives I'm going to go with KA Bread Flour.

I do have a question about my new steel, I cleaned it best I could with water and a very light dish soap to get what looked like light rust off of it and it seems good now, should I be doing anything to season it? Light coat of oil, or just leave it as is?

If it's in a salty atmosphere and does not get regular use with greasy food like fries, chicken, w/e, definitely season it. If it's your regular-use oven, just leave it in your oven and the oily vapor from your usual cooking will keep the rust off.

So after all the hoopla on Slice about how good the steel does vs a stone I emailed around just to get an idea about how much a 16x16x1/2" plate would cost, and got back one quote for $40. That seem reasonable? It's A36 hot rolled I think. It would be a while before I could get it, but wanted to make sure I was on the right track if I go that way.

And what about baking loaves of bread? Will the longer bake times work better with just a stone? I'm not worried about top browning on my pies btw, I can always hold them on my peel directly under the broiler.

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More is better..... and too much is just right.

scott123

Cory, that's a pretty reasonable price. One thing I would recommend is to consider going larger, if your oven can fit it. Size is a pretty big component of NY style pizza- the larger the plate the better. It can be touching the back wall and almost touching the door- the space on the sides is plenty for air flow.

Steel will transfer the heat too quickly for bread and brown/burn the bottom before the top is done. For bread, you want something less conductive, like a typical baking stone, but you might be able to get away with a denser brand of quarry tile.

Instead of pulling out the steel to make bread, what you can do is use a terra-cotta planter to bake the bread on. You can get them all different shapes and sizes, so feel free to be creative with it. The terra-cotta will slow down the heat transmission to a workable level for bread.

I'm probably going to season it btw if that's recommended. I just like the idea of that initial sticking or rust protection. Just a thin coat of peanut oil and season like you would a cast iron skillet right? I know that you don't wanna have a thick smear of oil or you get that plasticized nasty stick stuff in the surface. I did that with a smooth steel pot and it sucked to remove.

How about steel on stone? Not sure if I've seen any picutures of this thread of pies on a steel on top of stone rig... But if doing bread you're going to have your bread far away from the broiler so the steel might not be so hot, and that large wad of dough is going to cool that steel off pretty dang quick.

Instead of pulling out the steel to make bread, what you can do is use a terra-cotta planter to bake the bread on. You can get them all different shapes and sizes, so feel free to be creative with it. The terra-cotta will slow down the heat transmission to a workable level for bread.

Attempt number two on the steel plate was last night. Things went good but I'm still seeing cook times much longer than I expected, though perhaps thats just how long its going to take. Final results were still delicious. I took a series of pics by very quickly pulling the stone out at 4 and 8 minutes and then once I pulled it after 11 minutes.

Oven was set to 500, and the temp of the plate right before I launched was 527 (checked with IR thermometer).

I made these doughs, was hoping to get 48 hours in the fridge but only got 24 due to some changes in weekend plans, and my All Trumps arrived yesterday so I had to make some doughs with that, can't wait to try those. I used KA Bread flour with ADY, though I wasn't thinking properly and didn't use warm water with the ADY, it was most likely below room temp. Anyways here is a link to the album of pics.

scott123

Yes, Colin, I would say that the thickness is probably 80% of your issue. Kenji, on Slice, has been getting good undercrust color (not char, but good browning) in 4 minutes with 1/4" steel @ 500 or possibly even less, but for the members of this forum who have used 3/8" and 1/4" steel, 7 minutes is as low as they've gone.

How long are you pre-heating your plate for? Are you using the broiler for part of the pre-heat?