I've had a guy on two occasions now support this setup with a mic he called Ringo, positioned similar to the Glyn Johns side mic. This really brought all the close mics into focus and gave some body and substance to the kit - but for whatever reason I've never been able to replicate it! But i'd still really like to try out a few more things

Also, I had played with a mic facing the kit, like front of kit, about waist high and a meter in front of the kit, but never really felt like this offered anything of use

mono overhead (usually a ribbon) anywhere from just above drummers head to a meter above his head always pointed at snare. Love the the whack from the snare in this position though it does require the drummer actually knowing how to hit the snare well. Haven't tried it yet but the daptones use a only one or two mics on the kit and position them (from facing drummer perspective) between snare and kick pointing in. Theres an interesting interview with the guys from that studio floating about which got me thinking. Going to try that next time. Also the video that rick posted a little while ago of the Aztec recording at festival is a single mic drum recording with an overhead that looks like it is over the drummers left shoulder between snare and floor tom. That will also get a look in next time. Other ones to try are M/S overheads or rooms, under tom mics (only no above tom mics) and for craziness bug mics on the drumsticks or worn on a drummers headband ala tchad blake.

If its a rock band you could try a "trash" mic pointed between the kick an snare that is sent to an 1176 in British mode. Be sure to check if its under a racktom that it doesn't distort. This mic can add some character.

Lee McDonald"A smart man learns from his mistakes but a wise man learns from other's"

Mic sitting just over the drummers head is something I put up every session (R84 ribbon). I generally hit this pretty hard with an 1176. Point it straight down to the meat (kick, snare, floor). Also Chris T's suggestion about close room mics sitting 20cm off the floor in fairly tight to the kit. This worked really well for a bit more air around the drums. Pan then hard L&R and you can get some nice movement when blended with the rest of the kits mics. It also decreases the amount of cymbals that you generally don't want in room mics.

sadly I don't Ben, cant remember where I read it. I did do some similar micing a few years ago when I was producing the Glass Percussion Project. We had a large performance area with numerous glass instruments (well over a thousand) so along with a bunch of stationary mics I put a radio mic on each player just at the base of the palm. This allowed me to amplify which ever instrument they were playing at the time, to process that sound with clarity and separation (there was a lot of electroacoustic processing that I performed live) and it also allowed us to create effects simply by striking an instrument and then slowly bringing the mic up to that instrument effectively reducing transients and fading up the tone of the instrument. We were also able to zone in on particular harmonics of the instruments as the instruments resonated harmonics in specific areas. Of course it also made the performance that more magical as it reduced the appearance of the technology whilst still creating the sounds we wanted. If you are interested in seeing some of the stuff you can see it on youtube. Sadly the sound is not fantastic and the really wonderful bottom end is of course missing as is the live diffusion to the 16 channel speaker array: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYrKyvQyVkM

-shotgun mic up high in the air pointing down at the snare....you could do this directly up....or diagnally down.

-those drum pickups - look pretty cool.

-random room mic placement - literally take 5 mics and put them anywhere in any direction, up, down, left right, even pointing at glass, doesnt matter, go back in control room, compress retardedly....profit?

mylesgm wrote:mono overhead (usually a ribbon) anywhere from just above drummers head to a meter above his head always pointed at snare.

Done this with great success several times recently.We've used a Coles 4038.Like the dirt mic suggestion. Point mic at kit from 5 to 10ft in front, then process through Sansamp (for example).

I did a session with Tchad Blake in the late 80's and apart from regular drum mics he placed several extra mics around the room, most pointing at the kit through varied tubing (gutter downpipe of various lengths and a/c piping etc). He then processed these mics with heavy compression, or some distortion, or both, and pushed them up on mixdown to add a subtle 'edgey' flavour to the kit mix. Maybe five different mic/pipe/processed set-ups to play with, and often one only chosen.

ChrisW wrote:I did a session with Tchad Blake in the late 80's and apart from regular drum mics he placed several extra mics around the room, most pointing at the kit through varied tubing (gutter downpipe of various lengths and a/c piping etc). He then processed these mics with heavy compression, or some distortion, or both, and pushed them up on mixdown to add a subtle 'edgey' flavour to the kit mix. Maybe five different mic/pipe/processed set-ups to play with, and often one only chosen.

I use the Daptone method (as mentioned): a single mic on the ground (using those cheap old plastic mic tripods) equal distance from the snare and kick, pointing 45 degrees up between the two. Best results for me is when double amp'd -i.e. run the mic into an old tape deck preamp (for a bit of distortion - just redlining the VU meter when the snare/kick is hit) then into a padded DI to control level. Gives a great mono picture of the kit and provides a heap of snap from the bottom of the snare. Makes any tom rolls very natural sounding, as they move away from the mic they become "fuller" but "softer" at the same time

Had good results with Beyer M81's as well as sm57's... whatever sounds good!

You could try the old Eric valentine trick: Sm57's wrapped in plastic and submerged in fishbowls as room mics...

It's a great read! great to dispell the "you need super vintage or expensive mic's to make good recordings" theory that always seems to hover on anything music related. Also once I get some stuff mixed I'll put up some clips of the "daptone" floor. It adds alot of character.

I've got a PZM style Audio Technica mic, which, when placed on a folded towel in the bottom of a kick drum, gives a very natural whole of kit sound. Paired up with some spaced overheads for space (ceiling height over ride and hats, high-passed quite high) it sounds like being in the room.

I love my um70/692 and am just about to set up my m582 with the correct mount so that I can use the um70 on that. Haven't used it for anything to do with drums but its killer on voice, gtr etc... jealous of your pair.

mylesgm wrote:sadly I don't Ben, cant remember where I read it. I did do some similar micing a few years ago when I was producing the Glass Percussion Project. We had a large performance area with numerous glass instruments (well over a thousand) so along with a bunch of stationary mics I put a radio mic on each player just at the base of the palm. This allowed me to amplify which ever instrument they were playing at the time, to process that sound with clarity and separation (there was a lot of electroacoustic processing that I performed live) and it also allowed us to create effects simply by striking an instrument and then slowly bringing the mic up to that instrument effectively reducing transients and fading up the tone of the instrument. We were also able to zone in on particular harmonics of the instruments as the instruments resonated harmonics in specific areas. Of course it also made the performance that more magical as it reduced the appearance of the technology whilst still creating the sounds we wanted. If you are interested in seeing some of the stuff you can see it on youtube. Sadly the sound is not fantastic and the really wonderful bottom end is of course missing as is the live diffusion to the 16 channel speaker array: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYrKyvQyVkM

Very nice Myles. I enjoyed that.I did a thing a few years back with Tognetti playing glasses. Radio lapels strapped to the wrists would have been perfect for that. Next time.Seems that Tchad Blake uses Sony ECM50 Lavalier mics for various body attaching craziness.

The business takes you to odd places hey? Never heard of tognetti doing glasses but I bet that was an interesting gig. Sadly often us sound artists are taken for granted, I even had people walking up to me whilst performing that show and asking "I can hear some delays... Are you doing anything over here?" "uh yeah, pretty much everything you hear is processed and diffused by this system we designed and are performing with... And I did some of the composition too". I guess that's what you get when you don't wear the performer outfits and aren't up the front! It was a pretty fun gig though.

Back on topic, mics in other rooms with doors open often add a lot to drum tones as do irregular or "unprofessional" mics. Also triggering really heavy compression off a non drum source can be interesting too especially if the drummer can hear it. I recorded two tracks in castlemaine gaol a few years back with mics in cells down bluestone hallways, an m/s ribbon 5 meters above the drummers head, and room mics over 50 meters down two separate bluestone hallways. The delay/echo was cool. All tracks even vocals, clarinet, piano and strings were recorded there with room mics and during mixing no artificial reverb was used. Easily the spookiest and eeriest recording I've ever made, still gives me shivers listening to it. Really made me wish for actual reverb chambers in studios.

It's a great read! great to dispell the "you need super vintage or expensive mic's to make good recordings" theory that always seems to hover on anything music related. Also once I get some stuff mixed I'll put up some clips of the "daptone" floor. It adds alot of character.

Mitch

Thanks for the link MitchAfter reading that I've been inspired to go my own way!

mylesgm wrote: We had a large performance area with numerous glass instruments (well over a thousand) so along with a bunch of stationary mics I put a radio mic on each player just at the base of the palm.

This reminds me of a performance by a sax player at the 1996 International Computer Music Conference in Hong Kong. I don't now remember who it was.

I couldn't work out how his instrument was being amplified. I asked him at a function later. You guessed it: radio mics on both wrists.

Ben M wrote:Mic sitting just over the drummers head is something I put up every session (R84 ribbon). I generally hit this pretty hard with an 1176. Point it straight down to the meat (kick, snare, floor).

Ive tried this but with a harmonica mic....nice trashy sound.....if thats what your going for

Ben M wrote:Mic sitting just over the drummers head is something I put up every session (R84 ribbon). I generally hit this pretty hard with an 1176. Point it straight down to the meat (kick, snare, floor).

Ive tried this but with a harmonica mic....nice trashy sound.....if thats what your going for

I always try to have one trashy mic in position when tracking drums...just for when you want to change sounds in a mix (like in mid 8 or...) if I miss setting this up then I can run the halo mic through a sans amp or similar for that change.As long as it's got plenty of meat and potatoes in it.

What was the outcome of your altered drum mic setup Lee? Which mic positions did it for you?

absolutely loved R92s on toms, that was a major winnercymbal bleed is fantastic too, very cool, definitely going to be experimenting with this again

One positioned between two rack toms, front and back getting one each tom, the other the same on floor tomsproximity played a part here too, after much tweaking I was very happy

glyn johns overheads are lovely as always, used the new Gefells which are very nice, although we do need to get much better acquainted

Daptone mic didn't do it for me unfortunately, not this time anyway. I just didn't feel it offered anything I needed.4038 in the room behind a door served as room mic - the door trick was indeed great at removing excessive cymbals

in the end we ended up doing 85 hours in 6 days to just squeeze in all tracking, so we're taking a well deserved break and will visit the mix shortly

Ribbon mics on toms are helping me lately, I can back them way off the skin and still control the cymbal spill. I want the spill, but it has to work in context. I also get lovely control of the low end. I don't gate anything much anymore, although the original kepex's give a great sound when i need this. A little halo of FET distortion comes free with these! I don't bother micing the room very often, preferring to parallel compress overheads/underheads and maybe snare to suck in the huge room I work in most of the time. I don't like to eq drums much, so tuning, performance, kit/ cymbal balance,mic choice, placement and phase are the crucial things. Doing lot's of live to air broadcasts at PBS where I work has reinforced my view that less is WAY more when it comes to the number of mics used around a kit. I usually stick to just four in this context. A ribbon over the rack tom about 2 or 3 feet above, aimed kind of at the snare, using the polar pattern to control cymbals and proximity to control low end, a Senn 441 over the floor about a 1ft back, 421 in or out of the kik and an ev re 11 or re 16 on the side of the snare.With all the open vocal/ horn/piano/harmonium/whatever mics in the tiny room, that's plenty of phase issues and spill to deal with. For open and deftly played kits in a great airy room I like good condensers on the toms and ribbons for overheads. Often the oh is a single mic. I keep changing my mind about the value of stereo micing drums. Ooh, almost forgot the "Arse Mic" under the drummers stool. Ribbon mics and Variable D Ev's are great here, then through a Gain Brain you can get almost backward sounding drums to fade up at will. Great kik attack and snare crack and rattle as well, if you back off the limiter. Anyway, that's what I'm doing this month, next month, who know? Maybe triggers and no cymbals!! Cheers, Paul Maybury

I heard also from quite a famous drummer that in some sessions other drums placed near (such as a kick drum) the kit will be miced too, for blending extra ring from the shells, I'm usually trying to get rid of ringing but...... may work for some things

Well - seeing as Paul threw in the Ass mic - I must confess to using a kock mic a fair bit.414 just above the kick rim facing the drummers family jewels - whack it through a nice compressor and its a great vibe to blend in to the mix. It gets a nice bit of the wood of the kick, and the shell of the snare.

heathen wrote:I heard also from quite a famous drummer that in some sessions other drums placed near (such as a kick drum) the kit will be miced too, for blending extra ring from the shells, I'm usually trying to get rid of ringing but...... may work for some things

No rules...but, this can be done with more precision after the tracking with reamping if desired. I seem to be always asking the drummer to put all extra drums and hardware outside the tracking room to make sure these don't get in the way on the room/drum sound.