2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 287 times)

Swim5599

posted: 1/29/2019 at 7:54 AM

Breaking 2:40 is a pretty big deal. To do it in Boston is an even bigger deal. Because it’s pretty much impossible to NS that race you really have to be out no slower then 1:19 flat to 1:19:15 and that’s if you pace almost perfectly on the back side. I used to think I would know when I would be ready to put up a time like that, I am less convinced now. All of that being said in order to do it in Boston you probably need a half indicator 5-6 weeks out of 1:16 low. Oh and you need great weather obviously. Happy hunting though boys and girls.

HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

JTReeves

posted: 1/29/2019 at 9:37 AM

Madison, what do you wear running in those temps? I can't imagine going out to run when it's that cold. Just being outside period must be dangerous. Can you just do your runs on a treadmill or indoor track and ride-commute to work?

5K: 17:55 (2017) HM: 1:23:57 (2016) FM: 2:52:16 (2018)

2019 races: Athens Ohio Marathon (April 14); Erie Marathon (Sept. 8)

weatherboy80

posted: 1/29/2019 at 10:24 AMmodified: 1/29/2019 at 10:39 AM

Hope everyone is staying warm. Be safe!

Fin: you are correct as I should be in corral with my sub 2:49 time. Never been that far forward so hopping it eases some of the congestion of the first few miles. One nice thing about Boston (and other big races) is that we will have folks to run with no matter what are pace might be. That's something that has hindered me a bit in my last couple of races.

Swim: Having run Boston twice now certainly agree with your assessment. I feel like it can be a somewhat fast course with a lot of big what if's, but for me feel it is about 5 or so minutes slower than some of the flat courses I run here. Big caveat of course is the weather that I always run in, but again I feel I'm more acclimated than others. For me, I would also like to see a HM time of least sub 1:16 perhaps even a course with a similar profile!

DW - Forgot to mention, good luck this weekend! Luckily the weather will have broken by then and it should be just low 30s for the race, which isn't too bad this time of year.

Boston Corrals / Pacing: Hard to tell where the break between 1 and 2 will occur. I'm not sure it really matters though right? I've been in the first corral at NYC and there are still people flying by you, going out way too fast. I would imagine being back a little is actually even extra helpful at Boston, where the congestion will intentionally slow you down through the first few downhill miles. Regarding pacing, do you guys try to go out at goal pace for the first few miles, i.e. easier than goal effort? Or do you even go slower than that?

Halfs - I'm still not convinced a half 3-4 weeks before your full makes sense. Yes, it's a great workout, and gives you an idea of fitness, but you lose two workouts: one big one that should occur the few days before the half because you're mini-tapering, and the big one you would have mid-week after the race because you're still recovering. Is that worth racing a half? I'm not convinced it is. But you guys are much more seasoned at marathons than I am so I trust you're right on this.

I feel like it can be a somewhat fast course with a lot of big what if's, but for me feel it is about 5 or so minutes slower than some of the flat courses I run here. Big caveat of course is the weather that I always run in, but again I feel I'm more acclimated than others. For me, I would also like to see a HM time of least sub 1:16 perhaps even a course with a similar profile!

Yes, you've run in some crap weather, but 5 minutes is absolutely nuts. Especially if you consider that running the same effort in the first half as compared to a flat course should lead to around 2 to 3 minutes faster.

JMac, my advice would be to go out at just slightly slower than MP effort. That should give you a pace just faster than MP. I think, after running Central Park, you'll laugh at everyone saying it's a tough course. It's probably at least a couple minutes faster than NYC. dcv should chime in though, as the expert.

Halfs - I'm still not convinced a half 3-4 weeks before your full makes sense. Yes, it's a great workout, and gives you an idea of fitness, but you lose two workouts: one big one that should occur the few days before the half because you're mini-tapering, and the big one you would have mid-week after the race because you're still recovering. Is that worth racing a half? I'm not convinced it is. But you guys are much more seasoned at marathons than I am so I trust you're right on this.

I'm not sure why you expect the answer to be the same for everyone. In addition to usually wanting more of a taper, and more time to recover, I usually have a hard time getting "up" for two races like that so close together. So after I have a good half, I often need two weeks to get back in the groove of training, mentally. I wouldn't then be ready to turn around a week or two later to get ready for a marathon. So while it works for a lot of people, I know it is not for me. But those same reasons are why I wouldn't expect to PR a half 4 weeks after a full.

I'm not sure why you expect the answer to be the same for everyone. In addition to usually wanting more of a taper, and more time to recover, I usually have a hard time getting "up" for two races like that so close together. So after I have a good half, I often need two weeks to get back in the groove of training, mentally. I wouldn't then be ready to turn around a week or two later to get ready for a marathon. So while it works for a lot of people, I know it is not for me. But those same reasons are why I wouldn't expect to PR a half 4 weeks after a full.

That's totally a fair point, didn't mean to imply we're all the same. Guess I'm more surprised at how many people like the half 3-4 weeks before. I totally see your point about after the race too, I get pumped about trying to capitalize on my fitness but can see the other end of needing a big mental break. Then again, I'm the only person that likes running after work, so I guess I'm a little different

Regarding your Boston comment, that's helpful. I also like that you think it's easier than the NYC course, we just need to get weather like we had this past November and maybe I can actually go for that sub 2:40

Also, you need to add some upcoming races. I know you were disappointed in your half, but you're just getting back into it and I think by April/May you will be putting up some really good times.

Andres: maybe 5 minutes is indeed a bit much, but I feel like I have never really run Boston to my full potential yet. 2017 I was a bit injured going in so I played it conservative and still faded to a 3:03.52 and then last year ran the hard pacing gig to a 2:57+ where I may have been able to go low 2:50ish if truly going for it, but the conditions were crap. Regarding tune-up 1/2's for me specifically I feel like I would want to race it more than 3-4 weeks since I like to see some more confidence boosting workouts, but I'll admit I truly don't know as I've never raced one that close to the full. Plus every race is a bit different so you never know how one might take to truly recover. For example, right now I feel more beat up and tight than usual after my race on Sunday so there is no way I'm going to attempt any kind of workout with speed this week. After my PR in December I felt like I could run something pretty decent even at 4-5 days afterwards.

Also, you need to add some upcoming races. I know you were disappointed in your half, but you're just getting back into it and I think by April/May you will be putting up some really good times.

I think I just got a bib to Cherry Blossom, so that should be fun. I also need to figure out my marathon plans, but hope to do one on the sooner side. Possibly March 2nd if I can get some good long runs in before then. I know that I need to settle my schedule...like now!

Upcoming races: I dunno.

jayluf

posted: 1/29/2019 at 1:42 PM

Happy Tuesday everyone! Last week was pretty solid. Executed Wednesday's workout about as well as I could have hoped, then had a great LR on Saturday. I've had some incredible fitness gains the past 3 months. Really excited where I am now, but more excited about where I'm going. Have reached a whole new level of love for this process and appreciation of every single day spent out there!

The difference for me from corral 1 to corral 2 is the triple digit bib. After 2017 I said I’d never go back unless it was in corral 1. 2:46 mid was in last year so JMAC could be right there. Gonna be close

Madison - those temperatures are horrible, great effort getting anything done. How do you dress for that? Is it just lots of layers?

I do run in lots of layers. For Saturday's run in -23 I had on regular running shoes, 2 thick pairs of socks, windproof underwear, Target C9 running tights (I really like these - I wear them along down to about -5 or so), a second pair of running pants, an Under Armour coldgear turtleneck (I really like these too - I have 3 that are each like 15 years old and I wear one every day if it's 30 or under), 2 long sleeve dri fit shirts, a thin windbreaker, 2 Under Armour facemasks (I call these ninja facemasks as only my eyes show. I have 2 of them and they are great, i wear them for anything about 20 or under), a winter hat, and thick mittens. I will put petroleum jelly on my lips/nose/face too. The hardest part is breathing through the facemasks.

I did get 18 in today (6 in AM and 12 in PM). It was below 0 and windy but not too bad. My wife has convinced me not to run to work tomorrow in the -50 windchill. Everything is closed (even the indoor track) so I'll be taking a day off from running. On Thursday I'm hoping to still get in 17 or so so that I can have a shot at my scheduled weekly mileage (94).

Halfs - I'm still not convinced a half 3-4 weeks before your full makes sense. Yes, it's a great workout, and gives you an idea of fitness, but you lose two workouts: one big one that should occur the few days before the half because you're mini-tapering, and the big one you would have mid-week after the race because you're still recovering. Is that worth racing a half? I'm not convinced it is. But you guys are much more seasoned at marathons than I am so I trust you're right on this.

I was a bit confused by this at first, and then realized it was because you were working off of a canned plan, and modifying it to add in the half. Since I work with a coach, our plan includes the half when drawn up. With my team, our biggest workouts for the marathon are usually the weekend long runs anyways (we always include MP work in those long runs) so I don't feel that I'm giving up much other than mileage.

As for recovery after it - it takes me about 10-14 days to fully recover from a half raced all out. It was a bit worrisome during my CIM cycle, when I was 2 weeks out, and still feeling the fatigue from the Richmond Half. But I did freshen up in time. I'm sure in another few years, my recovery needs will be even longer, and doing a half 3 weeks out will no longer work for me.

Danke on the good wishes, BTW.

Andres - great news on Cherry Blossom. Assuming that bib comes through, it's worth targeting that as a goal race. It's fantastically managed, a fast course, a fast field, and often has good weather. In my opinion, it's the best race in the DC area.

jayluf - that is a nice week. Do you normally do your workouts on the mall?

Madison - I'm struggling to comprehend just how much time it must take to dress in all those layers, and how much resistance there must be when you run.

Jaluf: that's a very nice looking week. Like how your fitness seems to be ramping as well!

Ran my longest run since my HM on Sunday this morning (10 miles). Finally was able to open it up at the end and run a sub 7 mile again Things still feel nice and tight, especially in the left leg, so no need to push it on the speed just yet. Funny how every race can be a bit different on the recovery spectrum.

Andres - great news on Cherry Blossom. Assuming that bib comes through, it's worth targeting that as a goal race. It's fantastically managed, a fast course, a fast field, and often has good weather. In my opinion, it's the best race in the DC area.

jayluf - that is a nice week. Do you normally do your workouts on the mall?

Cherry Blossom is one of the best races out there. Only downside is proximity to Boston.

Usually do midweek workouts around that Lincoln loop. I love it - never gets old. Flat, fast and perfect distance from caphill.