Giving alot of thought to a water/meth kit. Not so much for more power, but more because I live in a place where it reaches 117 in the summer. Just extra insurance.

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If you only have pump gas accessible to you, this is a good move. What I've advised my customers to do is get it tuned in good air on 93 and get a second very conservative tune with the water/meth. Don't worry about making additional power, just use it as extra octane for when it gets really hot/humid.

That came out wrong. I don't mean it takes power to make power. I meant you wouldn't see the gains you would say it was a FI or high compression car. You will see a difference obviously because of it boosting your octane rating and cooling your intake temps.

Off the snow performance website...
• Naturally aspirated/stock compression:
With naturally aspirated engines using less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used often in warm climates to get the intake temps lower. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing as well as more effective air/fuel ratios, increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers.

Giving alot of thought to a water/meth kit. Not so much for more power, but more because I live in a place where it reaches 117 in the summer. Just extra insurance.

Click to expand...

If you're not trying to make more power, I wouldn't bother with it. In the tune, there is a parameter for pulling timing as the air charge temps go up. If your tuner has any inclination as to what he's doing, he'll have that set up just fine. I was on the dyno yesterday; with no meth, ACTs were up 220+ (non-intercooled) and not the slightest hint of detonation (made 350 rwhp NON-intercooled, too. ). I suspect that's a lot more than you'll ever see with an intercooled Kenne Bell, and mine is just fine.

Don't worry about making additional power, just use it as extra octane for when it gets really hot/humid.

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I don't follow how both of those are possible. If you are using the meth injection for extra octane (which I think is a HUGE mistake), and the car needs extra octane to keep from knocking, and the meth system fails for some reason (and they will do that from time to time, check valve get stuck or nozzle get clogged), then that motor is going to go pop. If the car is tuned correctly, then it will never need that extra octane, and as mentioned above, having the meth kit is a waste.

There is only ONE correct way to tune for water/meth, and that's using air charge temps to advance or pull timing (assuming you don't have all kinds of fancy monitoring boxes and ECU control systems). Water/meth spraying = cooler temps = more timing. No water/meth = warmer temps = less timing. Air/fuel ratio is set WITHOUT water/meth and IS NOT TOUCHED when spraying. And voila, perfectly safe water/meth tune that always works and will make power. Of course, it's more difficult to tune water/meth on an intercooled car as the temperature difference is going to be less with the water/meth than on a non-intercooled car like mine. But it can still be done.

I pick up 7 mph in the 1/4 with water/meth. Same tune. Just a flip of a switch. I'd expect 2-3 mph for a 500 rwhp intercooled car.

Off the snow performance website...
• Naturally aspirated/stock compression:
With naturally aspirated engines using less than 10:1 compression, water/methanol is used often in warm climates to get the intake temps lower. Benefits include: 10-15 HP increases from air density increases and full timing as well as more effective air/fuel ratios, increased gas mileage, and carbon free combustion chambers.

Click to expand...

You'll never see anywhere near that on a typical NA car, at least not one that's already tuned on 93. First off, spraying water/meth DOES NOT increase air density. Well....technically it does. But not with oxygen, which is needed to make more power. It simply cools the temperature down, which allows for more timing (same situation as an intercooler). BUT, on an NA car tuned on 93, another degree or two isn't going to make more power. Simple as that. Second, "more effective air/fuel ratios"? LoL! The methanol richens up the AFR, which is typically the opposite of what you do to make power on an NA car. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that water/meth on a typical NA car would lose power, not make any.

If you're not trying to make more power, I wouldn't bother with it. In the tune, there is a parameter for pulling timing as the air charge temps go up. If your tuner has any inclination as to what he's doing, he'll have that set up just fine. I was on the dyno yesterday; with no meth, ACTs were up 220+ (non-intercooled) and not the slightest hint of detonation (made 350 rwhp NON-intercooled, too. ). I suspect that's a lot more than you'll ever see with an intercooled Kenne Bell, and mine is just fine.

I don't follow how both of those are possible. If you are using the meth injection for extra octane (which I think is a HUGE mistake), and the car needs extra octane to keep from knocking, and the meth system fails for some reason (and they will do that from time to time, check valve get stuck or nozzle get clogged), then that motor is going to go pop. If the car is tuned correctly, then it will never need that extra octane, and as mentioned above, having the meth kit is a waste.

There is only ONE correct way to tune for water/meth, and that's using air charge temps to advance or pull timing (assuming you don't have all kinds of fancy monitoring boxes and ECU control systems). Water/meth spraying = cooler temps = more timing. No water/meth = warmer temps = less timing. Air/fuel ratio is set WITHOUT water/meth and IS NOT TOUCHED when spraying. And voila, perfectly safe water/meth tune that always works and will make power. Of course, it's more difficult to tune water/meth on an intercooled car as the temperature difference is going to be less with the water/meth than on a non-intercooled car like mine. But it can still be done.

I pick up 7 mph in the 1/4 with water/meth. Same tune. Just a flip of a switch. I'd expect 2-3 mph for a 500 rwhp intercooled car.

You'll never see anywhere near that on a typical NA car, at least not one that's already tuned on 93. First off, spraying water/meth DOES NOT increase air density. Well....technically it does. But not with oxygen, which is needed to make more power. It simply cools the temperature down, which allows for more timing (same situation as an intercooler). BUT, on an NA car tuned on 93, another degree or two isn't going to make more power. Simple as that. Second, "more effective air/fuel ratios"? LoL! The methanol richens up the AFR, which is typically the opposite of what you do to make power on an NA car. If I had to take a guess, I'd say that water/meth on a typical NA car would lose power, not make any.

I agree completely I've been researching water/meth for a while now. I'm going to be running it with my blower, as well as the safety system that retards my timing if line clogs, leaks, or runs out of fluid.

I agree completely I've been researching water/meth for a while now. I'm going to be running it with my blower, as well as the safety system that retards my timing if line clogs, leaks, or runs out of fluid.

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What car are you planning on doing that to? Stand-alone ignition system?

I'm not aware of any way to retard the timing using a stock ECU except the way I described earlier. And even still, that's how I'd do it. You could still have the flow out of the nozzle that's needed, but that doesn't mean that it's being atomized properly or actually going into the intake like it's supposed to.

What car are you planning on doing that to? Stand-alone ignition system?

I'm not aware of any way to retard the timing using a stock ECU except the way I described earlier. And even still, that's how I'd do it. You could still have the flow out of the nozzle that's needed, but that doesn't mean that it's being atomized properly or actually going into the intake like it's supposed to.