This is just an excerpt from the source, please read the link given if you wish to join the discussion.

Savita Halappanavar's family said she asked several times for her pregnancy to be terminated because she had severe back pain and was miscarrying.
Her husband told the BBC that it was refused because there was a foetal heartbeat.

This is an example of a woman who has been denied medical treatment to save her own life because the baby she was willingly carrying to term had a
heartbeat. For those of you that dont know, abortion is illegal in Ireland because of catholic churches political influence. What makes this case even
more interesting is that Savita Halappanavar - A dentist, was a Hindu. Despite the fact that the doctors knew she was miscarrying they refused to
induce her (And save her life in the process) all because of the law which is heavily influenced by the church.

Im sure many people will agree that the actions this particular hospital took were negligent - the point of a hospital is to save lives & treat
illness. But i find it shocking that someone would put their religious beliefs before a patients life and even after that patient requested to be
induced.

She died of septicaemia and E Coli. She died after three and a half days of excruciating pain. She died after repeatedly begging for an end to the
pregnancy that was poisoning her. Her death would have been avoided if she had been given an abortion when she asked for it – when it was clear she
was miscarrying, and that non-intervention would put her at risk. But the foetus, which had no chance of survival, still had a heartbeat. Its right to
life quite literally trumped hers.

This woman lost her "right to life" when she got pregnant. She lost her right to make decisions about her own body. Had she already been a mother, her
children would have grown up motherless. Her husband must be devastated as well as her family and friends. She had someone else's religious views
forced upon her without any consideration to her own.

This is why church and state should remain separate. Professionalism requires you to leave your Political, Spiritual and Personal beliefs at home.

A woman's right to her own body should not be an issue in the 21st century. Clearly, abortion needs to be legalized in Ireland. If you dont believe in
abortion then dont have one - but don't force other people to conform to your beliefs. Two lives were lost, many more traumatized. Its a real shame
because im sure dentist's are in short supply in Ireland as they are in the UK.

Big round of applause for catholic bigots please.
/End sarcasm.

Your thoughts ATS? Should she have been allowed an abortion because it was her life risk? Or because she was a Hindu and therefore did not follow or
believe in the catholic doctrines?

In my opinion she should have been allowed an abortion because it is her body and, I believe, her choice. (the fact that she was Hindu and that she
really needed the abortion to live are both secondary for me, although also valid arguments)

I don't "like" abortions but just because I don't like something or because it goes against some people's beliefs doesn't mean it should
apply to anyone but the person(s) opposed.

The fact that she was clearly in danger (and did die) is sickening to me.

Originally posted by Coppertone
This tragic event has somewhat been overtaken and diverted into a pro/anti abortion discussion which I believe is distracting from what really went on
here.

In ireland you can have an abortion if your life is in danger, although the law is a little grey in this area. This type of medical intervention to
save the mother happens on a regular basis.

What appears to have happened in this case, is that the medical team screwed up big time. Either they made bad medical descisions, or were not sure
of their legal rights. either way they screwed up.

Women dying due to pregnancy related issues is extremely rare in Ireland.

I don't have strong opinons on the abortion topic, although I do lean toward people should be able to make thier own descision when it comes to such
things.

All that said, Its a terrible thing to happen to this poor woman and her family, and I feel its a case of serious human error

But if abortion had been legal in the first place it would have been a non issue. The pregnancy would have been terminated, her life saved and she
would be free to try again at a later date in time to have a child. Also im making a point of highlighting that immigration into Ireland means that
the catholic church is not the only religious voice in that country. I truly believe that abortion should be legalized and that women have a choice
over their own bodies. This is a terrible loss of life without due cause.

Abortion isnt illegal in Ireland as such, Medical staff in hospitals can carry out abortions providing the mothers life is in danger.

In Ireland abortion rights have nothing to do with the church, we have held 2 referendums where the public decided to vote against abortion. No doubt
we will have a third referendum soon. It is the democratic will of the people of Ireland that has so far decided against abortions for anything other
than I mentioned above.

The Lady in question went to Galway University Hospital complaining about back problems, she was 17 weeks into her pregnancy. THe hospital admited
her to a ward and it was explained to her that she had a good chance that her body wasnt going to carry the pregnancy full term.

On hearing this news the lady requested an abortion, It was explained to her that in Ireland it was illegal to carry out an abortion unless her life
was in danger.

The lady requested again several times.

The hospital did a scan on the baby and it was found that the baby had a heart beat and because at this stage her life was in no danger the reuest for
an abortion was refused.

A few days later the lady was taken ill and admitted to ICU, at this stage her body was miscarrying the child.

The woman died in ICU from Septicemia.

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have been no
good.

This is nothing more than a tragic incident that many people in Ireland are now using for their own gain to force through abortion rights that would
be similar to the UK or US where people can simply walk of the street and get abortions.

For the record I do think abortion laws in Ireland need changing for certain reasons such as medical conditions and rape but I would be against a UK
and US style of abortions for any reason. But I think its very disgusting that people in Ireland are using this poor ladies tragic loss for their own
gain.

bluloa - I live in ireland also, seems you have to most up-to-date info on the case. and I pretty much agree with your assesment.

lots of people are using this tradegy to trumpet thier own agenda's. Even given your updated account of things. I still have a feeling a mistake was
made on the medical side, not that I have any proof, but only becuase deaths like this are so rare in Ireland. Then again, bad stuff happens even
with all the best care in the world.

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have been no
good.

you want to explain this one to me?
the point was that she was going to lose the child regardless but had she gotten the abortion her life would have been saved making this whole thing
a complete waste of life all due to religious influence in politics

Abortion isnt illegal in Ireland as such, Medical staff in hospitals can carry out abortions providing the mothers life is in danger.

Can you freely seek an abortion in any case? No? Then its illegal.

In Ireland abortion rights have nothing to do with the church, we have held 2 referendums where the public decided to vote against abortion. No
doubt we will have a third referendum soon. It is the democratic will of the people of Ireland that has so far decided against abortions for anything
other than I mentioned above.

Ireland's roman cathoc population (as of 2004) is said to be around 88.4%, so ofcourse people are going to be against something such as
abortion.Source

The Lady in question went to Galway University Hospital complaining about back problems, she was 17 weeks into her pregnancy. THe hospital
admited here where it was explained to her that she had a good chance that her body wasnt going to carry the pregnancy full term.

And at that point she should have been given a choice to either abort or continue at her own risk.

On hearing this news the lady requested an abortion, It was explained to her that in Ireland it was illegal to carry out an abortion unless her
life was in danger.

And her life was in danger, they knew that but failed to act accordingly?

The lady requested again several times.

The hospital did a scan on the baby and it was found that the baby had a hart beat.

Despite the baby having a heartbeat, her body was miscarrying - there was no way the baby was going to survive but they still refused to
abort.

A few days later the lady was taken ill and admitted to ICU, at this stage her body was miscarrying the child.

She was ill when she got to the hospital, she was miscarrying her baby from the very start.

The woman died in ICU from septicimia.

Caused by???????? The foetus maybe??

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have
been no good.

Did you really just say that? Had they acted earlier her life would have been saved, instead they selfishly decided to keep her alive for 3 days just
because the baby (that had no chance of living) had a heartbeat. She wouldnt have ended up in ICU had people been doing their jobs - Saving lives.

This is nothing more than a tragic incident that many people in Ireland are now using for their own gain to force through abortion rights that
would be similar to the UK or US where people can simply walk of the street and get abortions.

Why shouldnt women be allowed to seek abortions? Dont try and downplay the fact that this woman has been denied rights to her own body, to her own
survival and even had her own religious views cast aside. She would have lived had such a stupid law not been in effect.

For the record I do think abortion laws in Ireland need changing for certain reasons such as medical conditions and rape but I would be against
a UK and US style of abortions for any reason.

That's your view and i respect that, but no one would be forcing you to get an abortion if they became legal.

But I think its very disgusting that people in Ireland are using this poor ladies tragic loss for their own gain

They are using a prime example of how the law makes victims of people, there's nothing disgusting about that.

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have been no
good.

you want to explain this one to me?
the point was that she was going to lose the child regardless but had she gotten the abortion her life would have been saved making this whole thing
a complete waste of life all due to religious influence in politics

edit on 15-11-2012 by sirhumperdink because: (no reason given)

At the time she was admitted into hospital her life was in no danger.

The hospital obvoiusly no matter how unlikely the outcome would be wanted to do their best for the unborn child and give it a fighting chance to
survive.

Once the mothers life was in danger the woman would have been given an abortion however because she was going to miscarry this wasnt needed.

Im sorry you dont like the democratic laws of Ireland but thats how it is. We have chosen by majority to put the rights of unborn children paramount
unless the mothers life is in danger. We certainly dont need abortion supermarkets like they have in the UK where teenage girls can behave anyway
they want and the abortion clinic will sort out their little problems.

Originally posted by bluloa
We certainly dont need abortion supermarkets like they have in the UK where teenage girls can behave anyway they want and the abortion clinic will
sort out their little problems.

And still, there is a great emphasis on controlling a women's sexuality when we talk about abortion.

What makes me really mad is that women have to travel from Ireland to the UK in order to attain an abortion, things could be a lot simpler for
everyone if we used our brains.

Abortion isnt illegal in Ireland as such, Medical staff in hospitals can carry out abortions providing the mothers life is in danger.

Can you freely seek an abortion in any case? No? Then its illegal.

Correct, is that a bad thing?

In Ireland abortion rights have nothing to do with the church, we have held 2 referendums where the public decided to vote against abortion. No
doubt we will have a third referendum soon. It is the democratic will of the people of Ireland that has so far decided against abortions for anything
other than I mentioned above.

Ireland's roman cathoc population (as of 2004) is said to be around 88.4%, so ofcourse people are going to be against something such as
abortion.Source

A huge majority of people in Ireland have turned away from the church after the abuse cases, even the Taoiseach (Primeminister) attacked the church
in our parliment. (Dail).

Religion has nothing to do with this, its a simple case of protecting unborm children, however I do think the law should be amended for rape and
certain medical conditions.

The Lady in question went to Galway University Hospital complaining about back problems, she was 17 weeks into her pregnancy. THe hospital
admited here where it was explained to her that she had a good chance that her body wasnt going to carry the pregnancy full term.

And at that point she should have been given a choice to either abort or continue at her own risk.

At that point there was no risk to her, why shouldnt the child be given a right to survive?

On hearing this news the lady requested an abortion, It was explained to her that in Ireland it was illegal to carry out an abortion unless her
life was in danger.

And her life was in danger, they knew that but failed to act accordingly?

Her life was only in danger when she was admitted to ICU.

The lady requested again several times.

The hospital did a scan on the baby and it was found that the baby had a hart beat.

Despite the baby having a heartbeat, her body was miscarrying - there was no way the baby was going to survive but they still refused to
abort.

A few days later the lady was taken ill and admitted to ICU, at this stage her body was miscarrying the child.

She was ill when she got to the hospital, she was miscarrying her baby from the very start.

You dont know that and her life was most certainly not in any danger. If it was she could have had the abortion.

The woman died in ICU from septicimia.

Caused by???????? The foetus maybe??

We dont know, it could have been caused by any number of factors, Do you think she got E-Coli from the foetus?

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have
been no good.

Did you really just say that? Had they acted earlier her life would have been saved, instead they selfishly decided to keep her alive for 3 days just
because the baby (that had no chance of living) had a heartbeat. She wouldnt have ended up in ICU had people been doing their jobs - Saving lives.

They gave the child a chance, he life was in no danger at the start, because of a series of tragic events her body eventually gave up. We dont know
if she caught anything from the hospital such as E-Coli, your simply jumping the gun and trying to join up the dots for your own agenda. Let the
hospital report from medical proffesionals come out and we will see what really happened.

This is nothing more than a tragic incident that many people in Ireland are now using for their own gain to force through abortion rights that
would be similar to the UK or US where people can simply walk of the street and get abortions.

Why shouldnt women be allowed to seek abortions? Dont try and downplay the fact that this woman has been denied rights to her own body, to her own
survival and even had her own religious views cast aside. She would have lived had such a stupid law not been in effect.

Originally posted by bluloa
We certainly dont need abortion supermarkets like they have in the UK where teenage girls can behave anyway they want and the abortion clinic will
sort out their little problems.

And still, there is a great emphasis on controlling a women's sexuality when we talk about abortion.

What makes me really mad is that women have to travel from Ireland to the UK in order to attain an abortion, things could be a lot simpler for
everyone if we used our brains.

Actually you can travel to Northern Ireland now as an abortion clinic recently opened up there.

But in reply to your post, Why should women be allowed to kill unborn children, Is it the fault of the child that it was created by the recklessness
of the mother?

Originally posted by bluloa
We certainly dont need abortion supermarkets like they have in the UK where teenage girls can behave anyway they want and the abortion clinic will
sort out their little problems.

And still, there is a great emphasis on controlling a women's sexuality when we talk about abortion.

What makes me really mad is that women have to travel from Ireland to the UK in order to attain an abortion, things could be a lot simpler for
everyone if we used our brains.

Actually you can travel to Northern Ireland now as an abortion clinic recently opened up there.

But in reply to your post, Why should women be allowed to kill unborn children, Is it the fault of the child that it was created by the recklessness
of the mother?

Because some of us do not believe an unborn child has any rights, who are you to dictate differently? And not all unwanted children come about because
of the mothers "recklessness" - married women, women in long term relationships seeks abortions, that's just how it is. Why should THEY be denied?
Should they simply just stop having a sex life because they don't want to risk pregnancy?

Yes it is. And stating that abortion is legal when you cannot freely have one makes it illegal, for the record.

Ireland's roman cathoc population (as of 2004) is said to be around 88.4%, so ofcourse people are going to be against something such as
abortion.Source

A huge majority of people in Ireland have turned away from the church after the abuse cases, even the Taoiseach (Primeminister) attacked the church
in our parliment. (Dail).
Religion has nothing to do with this, its a simple case of protecting unborm children, however I do think the law should be amended for rape and
certain medical conditions.

I'll take your word for it.

And at that point she should have been given a choice to either abort or continue at her own risk.

At that point there was no risk to her, why shouldnt the child be given a right to survive?

They knew the risk but because the child had a heartbeat they refused to abort when they should have. Their ignorance cost her HER life, the child did
not have a chance but she did. She wanted the child but it wasnt to be on this occasion, now she's dead. 2 birds, one stone - You cant justify it.

And her life was in danger, they knew that but failed to act accordingly?

Her life was only in danger when she was admitted to ICU.

Her life was in danger before that point, her miscarrying was what caused her to be put in ICU, had the baby been aborted before then she would have
survived and never would have become sick enough to be placed in ICU.

Despite the baby having a heartbeat, her body was miscarrying - there was no way the baby was going to survive but they still refused to
abort.

A few days later the lady was taken ill and admitted to ICU, at this stage her body was miscarrying the child.

She was ill when she got to the hospital, she was miscarrying her baby from the very start.

You dont know that and her life was most certainly not in any danger. If it was she could have had the abortion.

It became clear when she arrived at the hospital she was miscarrying. Simple really.

The woman died in ICU from septicimia.

Caused by???????? The foetus maybe??

We dont know, it could have been caused by any number of factors, Do you think she got E-Coli from the foetus?

Her death, whatever the actual medical reason was directly caused by the fact that she was miscarrying a baby and no one did anything to induce her.

It was only when she was admitted to ICU that her life was in danger, at this stage she was loosing the child anyhow so an abortion would have
been no good.

Did you really just say that? Had they acted earlier her life would have been saved, instead they selfishly decided to keep her alive for 3 days just
because the baby (that had no chance of living) had a heartbeat. She wouldnt have ended up in ICU had people been doing their jobs - Saving lives.

They gave the child a chance, he life was in no danger at the start, because of a series of tragic events her body eventually gave up. We dont know
if she caught anything from the hospital such as E-Coli, your simply jumping the gun and trying to join up the dots for your own agenda. Let the
hospital report from medical proffesionals come out and we will see what really happened.

In giving that child a chance they killed her in the process, how is that logical? That's murder. She originally goes to hospital for back pains but
you're claiming she died from E-Coli she picked up from the hospital? Come on, seriously??

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