Agreed he would offset Dre's limitations on that end of the court but don't we already have Ed who is capable of doing this? Without any clear cut C's in the draft outside of Jonas (and is a project) I'm hoping the Raps go PG and SF in the draft if they manage to get a 2nd pick.

+1 I'd rather go with PG and SF then C. But I'm not a scout and I might be to risk averse.

Tim W. wrote:

Height matters very little. What matters most is length and strength, and Biyombo has more than enough of those. Ben Wallace is shorter than Biyombo and won the Defensive Player of the Year award something like 4 times. I have some questions about Biyombo, but whether he's big enough to play the position isn't one of them.

just out of curiosity what are those questions and if you were a GM where would you take Biyombo?

"We only have one rule on this team. What is that rule? E.L.E. That's right's, E.L.E, and what does E.L.E. stand for? EVERYBODY LOVE EVERYBODY. Right there up on the wall, because this isn't just a basketball team, this is a lifestyle. ~ Jackie Moon

My concern about Biyombo is if he can play center. At only 6'9, 240 I can't see him playing the 5. Maybe the 4, but we have enough PF's already. People are already questioning Kanter's height, and Biyombo is 2 feet shorter.

If we're picking the best player available at 5, then I would think Walker or Knight would be better. I'd only go for Biyombo if BC some how got a second pick in the top 10 and Biyombo was still around.

Height is usually an issue because of reach and wingspan. However, it's well documented that he has a huge wingspan. He's also a good size considering how young he may be. In my opinion his build is a non-issue. I'm concerned with his on court ability at the NBA level and also the concerns about him potentially being much older than 18.

"What if I told you that there is a center who's been in this league four years, who stands just 6-foot-9, and can't shoot. He also has poor hands, one reason he really can't rebound either (except for balls that come right to him). Did I mention he can't score in the paint either? Well, he can't, averaging just 2.5 ppg for his career. Now, would you believe me when I told you this non-shooting, non-scoring, non-rebounding player started at center many times in the postseason? Oh, and his team is two wins away from winning a title.

That's right, Joel Anthony is that guy, and he's an interesting player to evaluate because this draft features a player who's a lot like him -- Bismack Biyombo. At the very least, it appears Biyombo can be slightly more effective, meaning a team can find its future starting center in this draft. That's no easy feat considering the last two drafts have produced only two players that we know can be starting centers (DeMarcus Cousins and Greg Monroe). The thing is, any team that drafts Biyombo will need him to be far more effective than Anthony, because Anthony has the benefit of playing with two of the best players in the world on the Miami Heat. Biyombo won't have that luxury.

Let's break down his game:
To begin with, we need to talk about Biyombo's age. There are rumors that he is older than his listed age of 18. That may be true, but it might not matter all that much. For argument's sake, let's say he's as old as 24. Even at that age, he's younger than many of his opponents in the Spanish league, and he performed well for his playoff-qualifying team there. He may not have as many years to improve but he's ready to help a team, and don't forget that Anthony is 28. Any team drafting Biyombo hopes to be a serious contender in the next four years, and knowing it has a center who should be a better overall player than Anthony would be comforting, especially when he'll be on a rookie contract. If he's indeed 18, or just 20, and is a good rotation player for a good team in the second-best basketball league in the world, then he's even more enticing as a draft pick because his ceiling will appear much higher.

What Biyombo brings to the game right now is exactly what you'd expect when you first see him. He has amazingly long arms, and he uses them as often as he can. That part is easy to see. But I like his nimbleness in defending ball screens and closing out shooters. Other than a few occasions when he stumbles, Biyombo has a smart and mature approach to the way he plays defense. He anticipates well and is not one of those shot-blockers who never wants to leave the paint. He has an advanced understanding of team defense, clearly coming from his experiences playing at such a high level. It would be fair to assume that his team in Spain would go undefeated in any major college conference in America, and that should give you some indication of the talent level there.

Many Spanish teams run complicated offensive sets, full of multiple screens and off-ball actions, yet Biyombo pings from spot to spot as if he's part of a choreographed dance routine. It's the kind of instant recognition required in the NBA to defend great offenses, but is rarely seen in rookies. Biyombo's learning curve in this area will be small. Of course, everyone wants to see him block shots, and he will do that in the NBA. Because he's good at getting good defensive position, he's frequently in the right place to make a play on the shooter. To get a paint bucket on him will require a strong lift and finish, because he eats up anything soft. If within three years he anchors a team that is a top 10 defensive unit, I will not be surprised. This is not some skinny kid who's going to get pushed around. His strength and activity help him on the glass as well. He's a hungry rebounder who flows to the ball well.

Biyombo does not project to be much of an impact guy on offense. His hook shot is flat (though that's easily improved) and his natural scoring instincts are not strong. But I saw something in him that will help him a great deal in the NBA: His second bounce is outstanding and quick. This will not impact his offensive game as much as it will help him on the offensive glass. With those arms and that bounce, Biyombo can be a terror cleaning up the missed shots of teammates.

The biggest issue facing Biyombo is his weak passing. He looks to have major problems dealing with strong closeouts on a dead dribble, so I expect a lot of turnovers early on. This kind of problem can be coached up, as can the other big adjustment he'll have to make. He'll no longer be anywhere close to being the best athlete on the floor. That was often the case in Spain, and it allowed him to impact the game in ways that did not require any skill. In the NBA, though, he'll need to refine his game and build on it in order to play at a high level.

A word of caution to Biyombo: Joel Anthony is a fan favorite because of the way he plays for a guy who went undrafted. More is expected of a top-10 pick, so even if Biyombo is as good as Anthony, that won't be enough in the eyes of most."

Pretty good review, seems like Thorpe thinks Biyombo wil be a good player regarless of age. definetly a solid pcik if we can get another pick in the top 10.

just out of curiosity what are those questions and if you were a GM where would you take Biyombo?

The questions I have about Biyombo revolve around his real age and whether he simply has enough basic skills to play in the NBA. And I simply have not seen enough of him at all to be able to have any idea where I'd draft him. He's pretty much a complete unknown to me. Just based on the scouting reports, I'd certainly think about drafting him at 5 if Kanter (who I've seen more of) is gone.

Love this guy!

Tim W. wrote:

The questions I have about Biyombo revolve around his real age and whether he simply has enough basic skills to play in the NBA. And I simply have not seen enough of him at all to be able to have any idea where I'd draft him. He's pretty much a complete unknown to me. Just based on the scouting reports, I'd certainly think about drafting him at 5 if Kanter (who I've seen more of) is gone.

I would be very happy to see a few moves by BC. First off, if you can get him, get a big ass like Kanter. If not, we'll take a point. I'm easy with Wright or Walker (Irving being out of range). With a second pick, get Biyombo. That leaves us with Davis, Alabi, Kanter, Biyombo, Johnson, and Bargnani. Most important part, get a big man coach. The year is a full clinic with a Patrick Ewing or someone like that (Kareem would be the best , but he has health concerns). The raps have done a lousy job of developing their big men with Bargnani being handled with kid's gloves and everyone else buried.
If we can work a trade or 2 in there to shore up other positions, great! We have the bodies and plan with the front court to lose someone. Ironically, Bargnani is the only one with a skill set and scoring touch, but mobile, athletic front men with skilled wings and guards is a solid path. If Bargnani can fetch a SF, we are really building.

But we need to get some educators in there to teach these kids.

At point, I am pretty confident with Bayless developing another year, too.

To finish, Biyombo is at least going to be a cheaper version of Reggie.

... Like Dorsey already is..? haha
Ultimately I think we need more than what Reggie (and Dorsey) bring to the table. At least in a Starting Role. Reggie is great to have off the bench. I think Biyombo will end up being a much better defender than Reggie, but really its hard to tell. But he's a 'solid Role Player, on a good team, on the Second Best league in the World.' So that counts for something.

ADD I met Dorsey the other night at Real Sports. He was there watching the Dallas game.
So was that JRDN singer ... not a fan though.

Last edited by Joey; Sat Jun 11th, 2011 at 11:08 AM.

"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

I would be very happy to see a few moves by BC. First off, if you can get him, get a big ass like Kanter. If not, we'll take a point. I'm easy with Wright or Walker (Irving being out of range). With a second pick, get Biyombo. That leaves us with Davis, Alabi, Kanter, Biyombo, Johnson, and Bargnani. Most important part, get a big man coach. The year is a full clinic with a Patrick Ewing or someone like that (Kareem would be the best , but he has health concerns). The raps have done a lousy job of developing their big men with Bargnani being handled with kid's gloves and everyone else buried.
If we can work a trade or 2 in there to shore up other positions, great! We have the bodies and plan with the front court to lose someone. Ironically, Bargnani is the only one with a skill set and scoring touch, but mobile, athletic front men with skilled wings and guards is a solid path. If Bargnani can fetch a SF, we are really building.

But we need to get some educators in there to teach these kids.

At point, I am pretty confident with Bayless developing another year, too.

Just one point. It's always bugged me when people talk about a Hall of Fame center being who the team should bring in to help the young players. I have no problem with the team bringing in a great big man coach, but that guy is most likely not a Hall of Fame big man. The best big man coach of all time was 6'2 and never played professional basketball in his life.

Are Kareem and Ewing great teachers? Maybe, but I really have no idea. The only think a Hall of Fame guy has over someone else is possibly more respect from the player he is teaching. It doesn't make him a better teacher, though.

The workout was a little painful to watch as he missed shot after shot from within 10 feet of the basket. At one point it seemed a little foolish to have him shoot so many shots when it's not the strength of his game. We counted his shots after the first couple minutes and he went something close to 12-of-35 from within 10 feet playing 1-on-none. He was able to redeem himself somewhat by knocking down 9 free throws in a row at one point to finish 14-of-20 towards the end.

Biyombo didn't look nervous but his shooting may have been thrown off to a degree.

The consensus is that the workout surely didn't help his cause and may have hurt him to some degree in terms of being a lottery pick.

Everyone knew he's not a great shooter. The reason you take him is becasue he puts almost everyone on the Raps roster to shame on D and has the potential and physically tools to grow offensive. We need to draft this guy, our O is fine there are plenty of people on the Raps that can score to make up for him but our D (especially interior) is a utter joke.

It wasn't pretty for Bismack Biyombo, who puzzlingly did little more than confirm his clear-cut offensive weaknesses in his workout for talent evaluators. Turnaround jumpers in the key (0/5), elbow jumpers alternating sides (2/10), free throws (23/41) – you name it, he missed it. When he switched to uncontested turnaround hook shots in the paint a few more fell, but he mixed in some air balls for good measure.

On the plus side, Biyombo's body looked great and he's still an athletic freak. His combination of length, strength agility and explosiveness is almost unheard of, causing many to marvel at his physical gifts despite the low-skill level he displayed.

Overall? Nothing new outside of a vividly clear illustration of just how raw his offense is at this point.

One NBA exec put it best: “If you liked Biyombo going into today you are going to be set aside the weaknesses he showed and realize that setting couldn't have been any worse for him. The guy is not a jump-shooter, and no one is going to draft him to be one. You need to see through that. But if you came in here with question marks about him you surely came away with plenty more things to worry about. All in all, people who liked him will continue to, and those who don't will as well.”

The Biyombo workout was interesting as a rare public look at a prospect who has not played in months, after splitting with his team in Spain, and was barely known in the United States even when he was in a lineup. It just wasn’t good. The entire premise was a bad idea. Biyombo, a power forward from the Republic of Congo, is a stud athlete who blocks shots and rebounds. That would have come out in a game, where he could light up the gym by flying around the rim and overpowering opponents. In one-on-none drills, NBA evaluators got to observe bad hands and an offensive game that everyone agrees will be a non-factor in the league, all the way to a bad showing at the line. Dibs on trademarking “Hack a ‘Mack.” Opponents will foul Biyombo every time he has the ball within dunking distance, also known as his maximum shooting range. The encouraging news is that an executive with one team said Biyombo did much better at a recent individual workout in Spain by catching balls a club official purposely threw wild to gauge reaction and hands. But nothing hides the zero offense of a player tracking to the top 10.

Biyombo worked out at 1 o'clock in front of around 50 scouts at La Ghirada after the morning game. I walked up to him just before the workout and introduced myself and said "Hi Bismack, I'm Aran Smith of NBADraft.net". He quickly corrected me that the pronunciation of his name is actually "Bismark". He was extremely friendly and kind and all of the scouts I spoke with rave about his attitude and character. I grabbed a quick photo of him and wished him luck.

The workout was a little painful to watch as he missed shot after shot from within 10 feet of the basket. At one point it seemed a little foolish to have him shoot so many shots when it's not the strength of his game. We counted his shots after the first couple minutes and he went something close to 12-of-35 from within 10 feet playing 1-on-none. He was able to redeem himself somewhat by knocking down 9 free throws in a row at one point to finish 14-of-20 towards the end.

To be fair, this type of workout is difficult as the player is being asked to exert a ton of energy without a break and it's extremely intimidating knowing that so many scouts are watching every move and dissecting your game. It can start to play tricks with a player's head if they aren't mentally tough. Biyombo didn't look nervous but his shooting may have been thrown off to a degree.

He did look extremely athletic exploding to the rim, as expected, and looked good running the floor despite dropping the ball a few times.One scout said during the workout, "This is no different than that (Jeremy) Tyler kid that was here last year."

The consensus is that the workout surely didn't help his cause and may have hurt him to some degree in terms of being a lottery pick. But after speaking with his agent, going as high as possible might not be in his best interest anyway. Finding a fit with a team with the right expectations that can use him correctly is paramount.

Am I the only one that sees a very similar style of game as Reggie Evans? We all know how huge of an impact Reggie has when he is on the court. Now Biyombo is about 13 year younger, hasn't hit the constant injury bug. He can replace Joey Dorsey in the line-up and if Reggie stays (veteran's minimum) he will be a great mentor. I agree he is a project but you can teach offense, however, Biyombo has all the defensive intangibles that the Raptors need and since we are officially rebuilding why not get a second top-10 pick and take a chance. We will have at least one sure thing, and if Biyombo develops into the dominate force I believe he will become in 3 years time (let's not forget he is 18, or so they say) then he will be a steal.

So much so. I love Reggie's Game. I think Iwould love watching this guy play as well.

What makes Biyombo unique to talent evaluators is his outstanding combination of physical attributes, toughness and intangibles.

No player of record has ever measured a wingspan that is nearly 12 inches longer than his actual height—He also sports a chiseled 243-pound frame (4.8% body fat) that he should have no problem putting additional weight onto.

Biyombo is also an excellent athlete. He runs the floor extremely well and is very explosive around the basket.

What makes Biyombo so interesting, though, is his willingness to utilize his physical tools. He plays the game with incredible emotion (think Joakim Noah or Kevin Garnett), often putting opposing players and teammates in harm's way with his desire to make his presence felt. He competes on every possession, often to the point of physical exhaustion, something that will need to be honed. Still, it's an extremely desirable trait in a prospect.

..... his understanding of Fuenlabrada's half-court offense, which appears to be very good.

With that said, defensive ability is the area of Biyombo's game where NBA teams see the most potential -- both in the short and long term.

He has the size, length and mobility to guard both power forwards and centers in today's NBA, particularly as he adds weight. He can step out and hedge screens effectively on the pick-and-roll and is tough and aggressive enough to hold his own in the paint against most back-to-the-basket players.

Biyombo is also one of the best rebounders in the ACB. His length, aggressiveness, toughness, timing and athleticism are all great rebounding qualities. He has no problem going out of his area for loose balls, especially on the offensive glass.

He stood out as the most vocal players on the International team over the course of the week at the Nike Hoop Summit, assuming a position of leadership almost immediately upon arrival. You would often see him having tactical discussions between plays with the coaching staff, and he was quick to take teammates aside and explain the nuances of a play to them when something got lost in translation.

Am I the only one that sees a very similar style of game as Reggie Evans? We all know how huge of an impact Reggie has when he is on the court. Now Biyombo is about 13 year younger, hasn't hit the constant injury bug. He can replace Joey Dorsey in the line-up and if Reggie stays (veteran's minimum) he will be a great mentor. I agree he is a project but you can teach offense, however, Biyombo has all the defensive intangibles that the Raptors need and since we are officially rebuilding why not get a second top-10 pick and take a chance. We will have at least one sure thing, and if Biyombo develops into the dominate force I believe he will become in 3 years time (let's not forget he is 18, or so they say) then he will be a steal.

I'll actually buy the Reggie Evans argument, that doesn't mean that the Raptors should use a lottery pick on him. IIRC, Evans was undrafted.

And the bit about replacing Joey Dorsey, c'mon, what does that even mean. If you really want to "take a chance", take it with one of those European guys whose games have the potential to expand both ways.

It's tough to say where he'll end up, but from basically every "expert" he's gotten very so-so reviews.

I'll actually buy the Reggie Evans argument, that doesn't mean that the Raptors should use a lottery pick on him. IIRC, Evans was undrafted.

And the bit about replacing Joey Dorsey, c'mon, what does that even mean. If you really want to "take a chance", take it with one of those European guys whose games have the potential to expand both ways.

It's tough to say where he'll end up, but from basically every "expert" he's gotten very so-so reviews.

I admit. Even asking to get him in the top-10 is asking a bit much, but in a draft of many unknown, it seems that the only real defensive minded players are, Biyombo (18), Kahwi Leonard (19), and Chris Singleton (21). So if we use #5 to get a Knight or Walker (I personally think we should pick him here), then why not get a #10 - #15 for one of those 3 guys. My only problem with Leonard and Singleton is they are SF which with Kleiza coming back and Johnson already a decent defensive forward they may be muted choices. I admit Biyombo should probably go more in the 15+ range (Chad Ford has him going 14 to Houston) with all the uncertainty, but on a team that is building and with all the defensive and leadership abilities he has (and we lack) I think he could have the same affect that a Garbojosa had when he played. We all know that Ed Davis is probably going to be the starting 4 in a few years, so wouldn't it be great to have a starter and a bench player get double doubles on a regular basis and protect Bargs from his defensive inabilities? Don't forget we also have the trade exception, and depending on how the CBA comes out a nice chunk of money to pick up defensive minded vets to help round out the roster. Although this draft is going to help the Raptors move forward it isn't going to be the determining factor moving forward, so why not gamble on a Biyombo?

I admit. Even asking to get him in the top-10 is asking a bit much, but in a draft of many unknown, it seems that the only real defensive minded players are, Biyombo (18), Kahwi Leonard (19), and Chris Singleton (21). So if we use #5 to get a Knight or Walker (I personally think we should pick him here), then why not get a #10 - #15 for one of those 3 guys. My only problem with Leonard and Singleton is they are SF which with Kleiza coming back and Johnson already a decent defensive forward they may be muted choices. I admit Biyombo should probably go more in the 15+ range (Chad Ford has him going 14 to Houston) with all the uncertainty, but on a team that is building and with all the defensive and leadership abilities he has (and we lack) I think he could have the same affect that a Garbojosa had when he played. We all know that Ed Davis is probably going to be the starting 4 in a few years, so wouldn't it be great to have a starter and a bench player get double doubles on a regular basis and protect Bargs from his defensive inabilities? Don't forget we also have the trade exception, and depending on how the CBA comes out a nice chunk of money to pick up defensive minded vets to help round out the roster. Although this draft is going to help the Raptors move forward it isn't going to be the determining factor moving forward, so why not gamble on a Biyombo?

I don't think Ed Davis and Biyombo would really be a good pairing. Davis is obviously the future at PF, for the Raptors, so it wouldn't make sense to get a guy who doesn't compliment Davis very well.