"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

thornhill:nekom: shastacola:Speculation about the dead kid who can't tell his side of the story because he's dead-totally legit.Speculation that Zimmerman tailored his story to look like self defense- not based on fact. Right.

I'll admit that the beginning of the physical altercation isn't known 100%, but do you REALLY think Martin DIDN'T attack him? It is the most likely scenario, given what facts we do have. Proven? No. But likely.

Even if he did attack him, that still doesn't mean Zimmerman was so fearful that he would die that he felt his only option was to kill Martin.

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?

Others have pointed out the dispatcher has no authority to give orders. Additionally, I'm not even sure a legal POLICE order would be sufficient to convict Z. in this case. In that hypothetical, you could convict Z. with disobeying said order (depending on state laws, which vary), but that STILL wouldn't negate Z's right to self-defense vs. M, once M. has him pinned on the ground and is pounding his head into the pavement.

(assuming that's what happened, and I've seen no evidence that it DIDN'T happen)

Florida won't burn to the ground because, contrary to what conservatives would have you believe, neither blacks nor liberals are irrational, emotion-crazed barbarians who instantly react to things they dislike with violence. Remember: it was white conservatives who started a civil war in the US over not having a president that agreed with them; white conservatives that have been behind all but three of the notable political assassinations in US history; white conservatives who burn down and blow up women's health clinics and shoot to death the doctors and nurses who work at them; white conservatives who lynch non-white and non-christian men for interacting with white women or for the crime of insisting they have basic human dignity. And in this case, it was a white-identifying Latino, one who bought into all the paranoid horseshiat the conservative movement spews about race, youth, and crime, who shot a kid to death in the street at night out of fear, after confronting him out of prejudice for the offense of being black in his own damn neighborhood.

Remember that white and white-identifying US conservatives are dangerous. They are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and injuries in the US every year. Remember that they are hysterical and unpredictable, and will deploy violence without reason. Make no sudden movements around them and, if you are a minority of any kind, interact with them as little as possible. If you are not a white male, you are not safe around them; if you must interact with them, please seek out a friendly white male to do it for you. In their bottomless, pants-shiatting fear of everyone who isn't Northern-European and be-penised, they will shoot you at the drop of a hat, and never be punished for it. Just ask Yoshihiro Hattori.

The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police -- how fearful could he have really have been, especially considering that he had a gun?

At the very least, can we retire this incorrect statement of fact before this thread ends. The 911 dispatcher testified in court that he absolutely could not, did not and would not order George Zimmerman to do anything. He further stated that he is instructed not to order anyone on the other end of the line to do anything because that would potentially make the municipal government liable if the order caused the person to be harmed. He stated that he is allowed to make suggestions only; which is what he did in this instance.

HE SAID THIS IN COURT. NOBODY HAS CONTRADICTED THIS FACT. PLEASE STOP WRONGLY ASSERTING THE OPPOSITE.

The Muthaship: thornhill: The bottom line is that Zimmerman followed Martin against the orders of the police

It actually boggles my mind that there are idiots STILL saying this.

911 transcript:

Dispatcher: Are you following him?Zimmerman: YeahDispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.Zimmerman: Ok

Exactly. Don't need you to and I command that you don't are not the same.

You're disingenuously playing semantics. In the heat of the moment when an authority figure says, "we don't need you to do that," that's going to be interpreted as, "don't do it," not, "this person is only phrasing it this way because of liability reason."

Further, however Zimmerman may have interpreted or understood what the dispatcher said, he was still following Martin. However dangerous he thought Martin could be, obviously not too dangerous to follow him and potentially be discovered.

Southern100:EbolaNYC: Try following me home after I try to get away from you and chances are I will at some point turn around and confront you too.

There are unfortunately a lot of woulda/coulda/shouldas in this case. There are a TON of things on BOTH sides that could have been done to avoid this tragedy. As soon as it becomes physical though, all cards are off the table.

Many, many, MANY years ago *cough*, my parents always taught me to avoid getting into arguments, or fights, because you just *never know* when the other person will have a knife, or a gun. So I always avoided those types of situations as often as possible when growing up. Today though, it seems like there's more and more people who go out LOOKING for fights. It certainly seems a lot worse now than it did when I was growing up, and I often find myself wondering "Why"..

Buddy of mine has a son (white middle-class suburban kid, btw) who went off the rails at about exactly Martin's age. He literally started hanging with the wrong crowd, doing stupid wanna-be gang stuff, including looking for fights. Minor miracle he didn't wind up dead...kid's mid-twenties, just now getting his life back on track.

Waldo Pepper:tirob: nekom: tirob:Here in Pennsylvania we still have a duty to retreat and the sky hasn't fallen on us yet.

SYG didn't apply here, as even with a duty to retreat, his self defense claim is valid..

Zimmerman's self-defense claim may have been valid even with a duty to retreat, but SYG most definitely *was* applied in this case; it formed part of the judge's charge to the jury, as I cited in my post at 8:48.

you realize that whatever you posted at 8:48 was quickly forgotten after the sweater muffins posted at 8:49

Heron:Weaver95: if florida burns to the ground before monday morning...would anyone actually care?

Florida won't burn to the ground because, contrary to what conservatives would have you believe, neither blacks nor liberals are irrational, emotion-crazed barbarians who instantly react to things they dislike with violence. Remember: it was white conservatives who started a civil war in the US over not having a president that agreed with them; white conservatives that have been behind all but three of the notable political assassinations in US history; white conservatives who burn down and blow up women's health clinics and shoot to death the doctors and nurses who work at them; white conservatives who lynch non-white and non-christian men for interacting with white women or for the crime of insisting they have basic human dignity. And in this case, it was a white-identifying Latino, one who bought into all the paranoid horseshiat the conservative movement spews about race, youth, and crime, who shot a kid to death in the street at night out of fear, after confronting him out of prejudice for the offense of being black in his own damn neighborhood.

Remember that white and white-identifying US conservatives are dangerous. They are responsible for tens of thousands of deaths and injuries in the US every year. Remember that they are hysterical and unpredictable, and will deploy violence without reason. Make no sudden movements around them and, if you are a minority of any kind, interact with them as little as possible. If you are not a white male, you are not safe around them; if you must interact with them, please seek out a friendly white male to do it for you. In their bottomless, pants-shiatting fear of everyone who isn't Northern-European and be-penised, they will shoot you at the drop of a hat, and never be punished for it. Just ask Yoshihiro Hattori.

Hey, us white males are a minority, or soon will be, demographically speaking.

That means you have to respect the traditions of our culture, which include running everything, earning most of the money, and keeping everyone else down.

Hey, it's a LOT of work, let me tell you...you have any idea how many ethnic groups we have to oppress?

Coco LaFemme:Of course he got off. All you need to do anymore to get away with murder is say you felt "threatened." Doesn't matter what color anyone is in this equation. Two white people, two black people, mixed...doesn't really matter. As long as you the shooter tell the jury that you were afraid for your life, you could justify killing an infant if it came down to it.

Tellingthem:Lorelle: Tellingthem: Lorelle: No justice tonight (no surprise), but there will be eventually. Karma's a biatch.

mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

He's half white and uses a white name.

Heh...nice. Not Hispanic enough for ya? Maybe if he had the last name of Hernandez or something he'd be more Hispanic in your eyes? I had no idea that a name made more or less "white".

Again, he's half white. For some reason, white people keep trying to label him as solely "Hispanic."

So what? He supposedly identifies himself as Hispanic. So who are we to say "nope you are wrong, you are half white and have a white name so you are white." Why do you get to decide what race he is over him?

This might come to a shock to some people, but there are Fully Hispanic people with white skin. Check out the history of Mexico sometime and you'll discover that it's a racial mixing pot of white people, black people, and Central American Natives.

PunGent:Heron: UNC_Samurai: This is about the prosecution being unable to put together a compelling case.

You don't go to jail just for being proven a racist asshole.

I think it's more the jury not understanding their instruction. 2nd degree murder was a stretch, but an armed person starting an altercation which ends in the death of another is classic manslaughter. That they didn't convict on that charge shows they either didn't understand the conditions for that verdict, or chose not to apply them.

Or didn't find enough evidence that Z. started the altercation.

The idea that he got out of his car and Trayvon immediately jumped him is not reasonable. He confronted that kid, he made that kid feel threatened, the kid then responded by defending himself, and Z shot him. Z created the conflict, and then chose to use lethal force in it. People who do the same thing in bars get convicted of manslaughter all the time. It is routine.

The *failed* assassins were mostly lefties, or self-styled lefties--Sarah Jane Moore, Samuel Byck, Torresola and Collazo. I think that Squeaky Fromme and John Hinckley belong in the same category as Guiteau.

Elegy:Guess what? She broke into her SO's house when she had a restraining order against him, confronted him, left his house to get her gun out of her car, returned to continue to argument, and fired a "warning shot" that deflected off the wall and into the ceiling when her children were standing in the same room.

Oh yeah, there was a 911 call where she could be clearly heard saying "I got something for you" and then a shot.

Then she insisted she had a SYG defense when she had a plea deal on the table and rolled the dice on a trial when the charges she was up against had a 20 year mandatory minimum.

Marissa Alexander has no one to blame but herself for going to jail.

Okay, you people keep saying stuff like this. I'd Really like to get an article with the full story - there's a shiatton of short opinion pieces on the internet to wade through.Citation. PLEASE.

And, man - these types of big-issue threads are long enough as is - why greenlight a motherf'n headline that makes me have to sift through a bunch of stupid pancake 'jokes?'

PunGent:thenewmissus: This black woman is planning on purchasing a gun of my own. I don't want to get shot coming from the local store.

/scared for my black son who lives in Florida//racism is back.......loud and proud///racism.....just like a bad spouse.....never really left.

By all means buy a gun if you need one...but for the love of god, practice with it regularly, and keep it secure, especially if you ever have kids in the house.

Amen to this. Practice, practice, practice. Have someone train you that knows what they are doing. Read ALL of your local laws regarding them, especially if you are applying for a Concealed Weapons Permit.

If you haven't much experience with handguns, take more than just the obligatory class for the concealed permit.

If carrying a gun makes you feel like you are eight feet tall, covered with hair and the biggest badass around, don't carry one. But I sincerely believe that isn't the case here.

I think that if you started hitting the range regularly, you will find a completely new set of friends, who would be more than happy to help you in making a sound purchasing decision and get you training. Who knows, you might even find shooting as a sport fun. They have leagues, and all sorts of competitions for every skill level. Even Kari Byron of the Mythbusters, who is a famed liberal (and former anti-gunner) has changed her stance, because of how fun the sport is.

MagSeven:hasty ambush: MagSeven: shastacola: Mid_mo_mad_man: Zimmerman was found not guilty. If one followed the court everyday this was an easy verdict to reach. It's clear Martin was not scared of Zimmerman but he was angry. Martin was a thug with a violent past. He was on marijuana and didn't have a clear rational head. Zimmerman had a legal right to follow Martin. He had the right to call 911. No law was broken till Martin jumped George. Once that happened he was in his rights to shot Martin. No tears should be shed for Martin.

Ever notice how many Zimmerman fans feel a need to paint Martin as a thug? What was any more "thuggish" about him than most teenagers? He got suspended from school for graffiti,truancy and pot. Please explain how this makes him a "violent thug".

Well, the actual violence he participated in, referring to your last sentence. But I am really starting to hate the word thug. It's starting to become the "N-word" when you cant say the actual phrase "N-word". How far down the rabbit hole will these hyphenated code words delve?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, vandalizing property, having drugs at school, getting suspended, caught with stolen property, attacking bus drivers, getting kicked out of school, involved in the illegal purchase of a handgun and behaving so badly that your mom kicks you out to go live with your dad can be described correctly as Thug like-regardless of race, ethnicity or country of origin.

So the word thug is being used correctly in this case . Just as it would apply to those who threaten to riot if the jury did not find the way they wanted them to.

Nah. A guy does all this in Britain, you call him a hooligan or hoodie, unless he's black then you call him a thug. Thug seems to be reserved for black guys and members of subcontinental Indian death cults who work for dudes who can perform heart surgery without a scalpel. But by all means prove me wrong. Give me a list of your top ten favorite white thugs (difficulty: no one who ever ...

If we keep true Flemings intent Bond is really nothing more than a "Thug in a tuxedo"

Even without Tommy Guns most of your white organized crime families (Sicilian, Italian, Russian etc) are a bunch of thugs.

Skin heads are thugs.

Unions have lots and lots of thugs.

The members of a wrestling team, their coach and the community that tried to cover up for them when they sexually assaulted another team member by shoving a pencil up his ass are thugs.Link

The bully's in a school that caused a student to commit suicide are thugs.Link

So the thug reference is not really race specific and you can have female thugs or as I call them thugettes.

TheDumbBlonde:mr lawson: So a Hispanic shoots a black and is acquitted by women, but it's still white men's fault.

Dude, it's always a white guy;s fault.

What's really funny about comments like this is how it reveals your own racism and ignorance. To you, Zimmerman is "Hispanic" because he's not as pale as a Northern-European, but most light-skinned Hispanics with clearly non-native names don't think of themselves as Hispanic; they think of themselves as White. Racism is actually a huge problem in central and South America as the "Spanish" and "Portuguese" (and in Mexico at least they still call themselves that) behave in exactly the same way towards the "mestizos" and "indios" as white racists do towards everyone else in the US.

BlackBeard The Pirate:PunGent: thenewmissus: This black woman is planning on purchasing a gun of my own. I don't want to get shot coming from the local store.

/scared for my black son who lives in Florida//racism is back.......loud and proud///racism.....just like a bad spouse.....never really left.

By all means buy a gun if you need one...but for the love of god, practice with it regularly, and keep it secure, especially if you ever have kids in the house.

Amen to this. Practice, practice, practice. Have someone train you that knows what they are doing. Read ALL of your local laws regarding them, especially if you are applying for a Concealed Weapons Permit.

If you haven't much experience with handguns, take more than just the obligatory class for the concealed permit.

If carrying a gun makes you feel like you are eight feet tall, covered with hair and the biggest badass around, don't carry one. But I sincerely believe that isn't the case here.

I think that if you started hitting the range regularly, you will find a completely new set of friends, who would be more than happy to help you in making a sound purchasing decision and get you training. Who knows, you might even find shooting as a sport fun. They have leagues, and all sorts of competitions for every skill level. Even Kari Byron of the Mythbusters, who is a famed liberal (and former anti-gunner) has changed her stance, because of how fun the sport is.

thornhill:You're disingenuously playing semantics. In the heat of the moment when an authority figure says, "we don't need you to do that," that's going to be interpreted as, "don't do it," not, "this person is only phrasing it this way because of liability reason."

Further, however Zimmerman may have interpreted or understood what the dispatcher said, he was still following Martin. However dangerous he thought Martin could be, obviously not too dangerous to follow him and potentially be discovered.

And you're making wild, unproven speculations. Zimmerman responded "okay" and stopped running after the dispatchers suggestion. There's not on shred of evidence that he ever regained sight of Martin and resumed following him after that.

Most of these comments make me sick. The justice system got this RIGHT according to the evidence. The people who think different are nothing short of a lynch mob. I've read the evidence, and there is by no means any guilt BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that he committed any crime. The moment Treyvon decided to attack Zimmerman he made the choice to put his life in jeopardy, and that's what the jury agreed with. Regardless of what anyone assumes about the details, this case was a win for liberty.

No. At the risk of repeating myself, that is not what the state had to prove.

STOP IT.

It does not matter who started the fight. It matters if the guy who pulled the trigger was reasonably in fear of his life. Fights can go either way.

He might have put his hands on the kid first, the kid defends himself and starts kicking his ass, but it's not his fault the kid is dead now even though if he hadn't started it the kid would be alive because he now feels his life's in danger.Great that's cool you don't have to take any responsibility for killing someone when it was your fault to begin with.

In the United States, we don't put people in prison based upon "might have's" and guess's.

Unfortunately that's not the case. He had 4 min. To run less than 100yds to his home - to give you an idea I can low crawl that distance in less time. Instead of running to sanctuary trayvon did the one thing that he shouldn't have done - attack someone else for following him.

The end result is a trial that should never have happened and the Jessie Jackson's and Al sharp tons need to stay out of it. It's not a hate crime - you could replace either of the parts with ANY race and have the same result with no trial. But someone stirred the pot to get some outrage and it seems to have worked till the facts were considered.

I want to state unequivocally that I am pleased with this verdict. I have stated from the start the prosecution did not have a case and would race bait and appeal to emotion. Fortunately, the jury did what the law required.

Now we need to see about bringing up misconduct charges on the prosecutors and judge.

Popcorn Johnny:And you're making wild, unproven speculations. Zimmerman responded "okay" and stopped running after the dispatchers suggestion. There's not on shred of evidence that he ever regained sight of Martin and resumed following him after that.

Huh? So you are positing that suddenly Martin changed direction and started going after Zimmerman? Because that's the only scenario I can see where this makes any sense.

fanbladesaresharp:iq_in_binary: Penman: Pincy: Penman: iq_in_binary: Because the asshole who thinks a gun in his pocket makes him a cop that decided you looked suspicious won't go to jail for shooting you after starting a fight with you and losing.

Every Trayvon cheerleader gets this wrong. Trayvon Martin started the fight.

So we have video of how this whole thing went down?

A 911 call and the injuries to Zimmerman.

Yes, a 911 call where Zimmerman admitted to pursuing Martin. Despite being told not to.

Active pursuit is threatening behavior. That's instigating a fight. Like I said, he was losing a fight he started, and like a little biatch pulled the gun because he was a sore loser.

That's like, your opinion, man. And right now, that opinion doesn't count for shiat as the jury decided.

I'm sorry I didn't hear Zimmerman running in the 911 audio - didn't hear him out of breath either and if that guy moves faster than a stroll bet your ass he'd be panting like a dog locked in a hot car.

Southern100:My apologies, I thought the "Could" was implied, since the facts of the this particular case has already proven that he performed no specific actions that would have justified the use of deadly force by TM.

Patently false. The facts of this case proved that there was reasonable doubt about whether Zimmerman killed Martin in a manner that meets the elements of either murder2 or man. Had the confrontation ended in Zimmerman's death, Martin would have been afforded the same "reasonable doubt".

PunGent:Igor Jakovsky: Southern100: Elegy: Southern100: s2s2s2: Lionel Mandrake: therhinodep: If it makes some of you feel better, I just heard Zimmerman did not walk away from this totally unscathed. He has been demoted from neighborhood watch captain to neighborhood watch lieutenant.

Did they takes away his gun?

Is he going to have to stab his way to an acquittal now?

Gave him back his gun, kept his bullets.

The gun is garbage. Have you seen it? It's all bent up. The tube is bent up, the slide is unable to close because of it.. Probably because of the point blank shot. The gun will never be used again.

Meh, PF-9's cost something like 200 bucks. They're pretty disposable.

I know, just seems kinda pointless to give it back to him, although I guess he can frame it.

The tube barrel is at angle because the slide is pulled back and locked. If you release the slide it will go back to straight. Its not really bent unless I'm missing something else in that picture

Huh...never fired one...seems like an odd design for a pistol. Any mechanical advantage?

Here is one broken down. The barrel is on a pivot and flips upward slightly when fired. I imagine the advantage has to do with lessening recoil and stress on the gun. The barrel itself is also pretty small only being a few inches long. I have fired one before and the trigger has a real heavy draw. You get tired of shooting it pretty quick, it is not exactly the most fun thing to take to the range.

thornhill:In the heat of the moment when an authority figure says, "we don't need you to do that," that's going to be interpreted as, "don't do it," not, "this person is only phrasing it this way because of liability reason."

honestly, entire thread ruined by pancake bullshiat, want to read, don't want to read so much bullshiat, ill blame the mods since they picked this much shiattier version of the thread with built in off topic.

Heron:PunGent: Heron: UNC_Samurai: This is about the prosecution being unable to put together a compelling case.

You don't go to jail just for being proven a racist asshole.

I think it's more the jury not understanding their instruction. 2nd degree murder was a stretch, but an armed person starting an altercation which ends in the death of another is classic manslaughter. That they didn't convict on that charge shows they either didn't understand the conditions for that verdict, or chose not to apply them.

Or didn't find enough evidence that Z. started the altercation.

The idea that he got out of his car and Trayvon immediately jumped him is not reasonable. He confronted that kid, he made that kid feel threatened, the kid then responded by defending himself, and Z shot him. Z created the conflict, and then chose to use lethal force in it. People who do the same thing in bars get convicted of manslaughter all the time. It is routine.

Routine? I'd say it's more of a coin-toss as to whether they get charged at all...certainly the average bar-brawl doesn't get a full-court press. Need national media attention for that.

That aside, all I've seen here is that Z. followed M...that's not enough to "create a conflict", legally speaking.

You show me that Z. pulled out his weapon, or punched M first, or something like that...ya, Z goes down for manslaughter at the least. But I haven't seen anything like that, certainly not seen it proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

( re: these last two posts, I've had the urge to say un-PC things in 'support' of Trayvon, for some reason. They're somehow funny to me. Anyway, doing so on Facebook would be easily misconstrued, and social suicide.

skullkrusher:shower_in_my_socks: skullkrusher: she LEFT the situation, got a farking gun and then REENTERED the situation. Stop doing a disservice to an actual problem by being a jackhole

She went into the garage of her own house to arm herself and then told her abusive husband to get the fark out before shooting a single shot into the ceiling. Give me a farking break.

It''s not like she got out of her car, tracked her husband down on a public sidewalk, and then shot him to death, right???

so, she extricated herself from the situation, entered a means of farking escape from the vicinity, got a gun, reentered the situation and fired "warning shots" that could have killed children but you can't see how that's kinda different than this or how she wasn't "standing her ground" after she had already ceded the ground and farking left the allegedly dangerous situation?

You're not even trying to make sense, are you?

No, but he sure is trotting out a very racist-laced diatribe, while also espousing illegal and inciting behavior (previous thread on this matter).

PoTBoT:Most of these comments make me sick. The justice system got this RIGHT according to the evidence. The people who think different are nothing short of a lynch mob. I've read the evidence, and there is by no means any guilt BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that he committed any crime. The moment Treyvon decided to attack Zimmerman he made the choice to put his life in jeopardy, and that's what the jury agreed with. Regardless of what anyone assumes about the details, this case was a win for liberty.

Fortunately, in THIS country, we have the God-given right to biatch about our government even when it does something right :)

PunGent:Heron: PunGent: Heron: UNC_Samurai: This is about the prosecution being unable to put together a compelling case.

You don't go to jail just for being proven a racist asshole.

I think it's more the jury not understanding their instruction. 2nd degree murder was a stretch, but an armed person starting an altercation which ends in the death of another is classic manslaughter. That they didn't convict on that charge shows they either didn't understand the conditions for that verdict, or chose not to apply them.

Or didn't find enough evidence that Z. started the altercation.

The idea that he got out of his car and Trayvon immediately jumped him is not reasonable. He confronted that kid, he made that kid feel threatened, the kid then responded by defending himself, and Z shot him. Z created the conflict, and then chose to use lethal force in it. People who do the same thing in bars get convicted of manslaughter all the time. It is routine.

Routine? I'd say it's more of a coin-toss as to whether they get charged at all...certainly the average bar-brawl doesn't get a full-court press. Need national media attention for that.

That aside, all I've seen here is that Z. followed M...that's not enough to "create a conflict", legally speaking.

You show me that Z. pulled out his weapon, or punched M first, or something like that...ya, Z goes down for manslaughter at the least. But I haven't seen anything like that, certainly not seen it proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

I agree... but for shiats and giggles, what about negligence causing death/bodily harm? (something slightly less than manslaughter)

shower_in_my_socks:EvilRacistNaziFascist: I'll tell you something, and this goes for 99.9% of the people like me who you probably despise: no matter what your racial background might be, if you are trying to beat us to death we will resist you using any means necessary; and if we are armed and can save our lives by shooting your thug ass dead, we will do it. Consider yourselves forewarned.

And if you stalk me at night and then accost me, I'm going to get punchy. And if you respond by shooting me point-blank in the heart, and then get away with it, my friends and family will hunt you down like a dog. Consider yourself forewarned.

gja:shower_in_my_socks: EvilRacistNaziFascist: I'll tell you something, and this goes for 99.9% of the people like me who you probably despise: no matter what your racial background might be, if you are trying to beat us to death we will resist you using any means necessary; and if we are armed and can save our lives by shooting your thug ass dead, we will do it. Consider yourselves forewarned.

And if you stalk me at night and then accost me, I'm going to get punchy. And if you respond by shooting me point-blank in the heart, and then get away with it, my friends and family will hunt you down like a dog. Consider yourself forewarned.

Molavian:thornhill: In the heat of the moment when an authority figure says, "we don't need you to do that," that's going to be interpreted as, "don't do it," not, "this person is only phrasing it this way because of liability reason."

What authority does a dispatcher have over anyone?

I wondered that myself. He isnt a cop. His only job is to relay a concern from a civilian to the cops.

Igor Jakovsky:PunGent: Igor Jakovsky: Southern100: Elegy: Southern100: s2s2s2: Lionel Mandrake: therhinodep: If it makes some of you feel better, I just heard Zimmerman did not walk away from this totally unscathed. He has been demoted from neighborhood watch captain to neighborhood watch lieutenant.

Did they takes away his gun?

Is he going to have to stab his way to an acquittal now?

Gave him back his gun, kept his bullets.

The gun is garbage. Have you seen it? It's all bent up. The tube is bent up, the slide is unable to close because of it.. Probably because of the point blank shot. The gun will never be used again.

Meh, PF-9's cost something like 200 bucks. They're pretty disposable.

I know, just seems kinda pointless to give it back to him, although I guess he can frame it.

The tube barrel is at angle because the slide is pulled back and locked. If you release the slide it will go back to straight. Its not really bent unless I'm missing something else in that picture

Huh...never fired one...seems like an odd design for a pistol. Any mechanical advantage?Here is one broken down. The barrel is on a pivot and flips upward slightly when fired. I imagine the advantage has to do with lessening recoil and stress on the gun. The barrel itself is also pretty small only being a few inches long. I have fired one before and the trigger has a real heavy draw. You get tired of shooting it pretty quick, it is not exactly the most fun thing to take to the range.[i.imgur.com image 244x212]

Has more to do with stripping a new round into the chamber, actually. Short recoil actions like that run into a ton of problems with the reloading phase of semi-auto operation. Started with the Colt 1911 (1903 was fixed barrel despite popular misconception) and kept going. The barrel angles backwards and down to align the chamber throat into a less steep angle, reducing the chances that the slug would run into the throat and jam. We call these types of pistol actions "Browning Style."