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Is selling on the internet the same as advertising on the internet? Just wondering there are a lot of sites that advertise litters, also many people advertise litters, but do not sell over the internet, buyer might sign up on a list for pick on an upcoming breeding, but the majority of pups are not sent out without buyers coming out to see the litter and pick their pups, and without seller meeting-approving the buyers . This seems to go under the radar of this rule, which appears to be protection for people who are charged and sent pups without ever seeing them, the condition they were raised in, or picking their pup. I don't see how many working dog breeders would fall under this rule, as there's so much buyer-seller interaction with working dog breeding. I've flown in to choose a pup, sure distance might prevent many from doing so, but I've never had a seller say NO you cannot come out; might be a red-flag if they did. Heck when I had a litter, I wanted the buyers to come out, buyers have too make it pass the inquisition after all.

Last edited by Hunt'EmUp; 09-10-2013 at 12:33 PM.

"They's Just DAWGS"
"Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
"I train dogs, Not papers"

I am listening to the Q&A now .
4 bitches who are physically able to be bred and become pregnant is the definition of breeding bitch

IF ALL buyers come to see the puppy in person before purchasing you would be exempt. The buyer does not need to come to your home , but the seller and the dog and the buyer all need to be present for the sale. If YOU SHIP any pups (even one)you will need to comply.
They will be answering ads and asking if you will ship to find non compliance

There will be a phone # to call to see if you are compliant. Susan Patterson , a lab breeder who shows, hunt tests and hunts with her dogs asked if her kennel was included and they could not give her an answer on her dual purpose dogs. They said she would need to call.
If you are selling for research, testing, experimentation , exhibition and pets you need to comply , if you sell for hunting, working you do not need to comply.
I am trying to keep up here , so this is not verbatim

If your intent is to sell as a working dog , stock dog or hunting dog and the buyer does not follow through you will not be held liable

Is selling on the internet the same as advertising on the internet? Just wondering there are a lot of sites that advertise litters, also many people advertise litters, but do not sell over the internet, buyer might sign up on a list for pick on an upcoming breeding, but the majority of pups are not sent out without buyers coming out to see the litter and pick their pups, and without seller meeting-approving the buyers . This seems to go under the radar of this rule, which appears to be protection for people who are charged and sent pups without ever seeing them, the condition they were raised in, or picking their pup. I don't see how many working dog breeders would fall under this rule, as there's so much buyer-seller interaction with working dog breeding. I've flown in to choose a pup, sure distance might prevent many from doing so, but I've never had a seller say NO you cannot come out; might be a red-flag if they did. Heck when I had a litter, I wanted the buyers to come out, got to check-up on them after all.

What do you base your assumption on that the "majority of pups are not sent out without buyers coming to see the litter"? Just because you may choose to fly or drive to pick out your own puppy, does not mean the majority of buyers choose that option. I've been breeding performance Labradors for almost 30 years, and it's about 50-50 on those clients that live close enough to drive, or opt for the dog to go via airlines or ground transport. I've also been purchasing pups for the same amount of years from reputable breeders, and can count on one hand the times I've driven to pick up my pup versus allowing the breeder who has observed the pups for 8 weeks to make that selection for me.

There was a conference call today led by APHIS to explain the new rule. There were more questions raised than answers
given.

For example, They stumbled and bumbled about the question of dogs that are used
for hunting and for show. An exhibition dog is covered under the rule whereas a
hunting dog is not. (Aside from the 4 breedable bitches standpoint.) Further,
dogs sold as pets are covered but the breeder of retrievers can sell all dogs as
hunting dogs and not be covered....whether the dog goes hunting or not. We will
see the rise of the hunting chihuahua under this definition.

I believe that if I sell 1 dog overseas without a buyer visit, I will be out of
compliance. While we are working to expand diversity in our small gene pool, per
APHIS we can't do it without becoming Class B dealers.

Rescues are not covered because they meet the buyer ... though in many breed
rescues, the buyer and the foster home may be a continent apart.

Way under estimated the cost of compliance. If I have 4 breeding females and they
live in the house with me, it's going to cost about $35-50,000 to set up a
kennel operation other than just four wire cages. This aside from the issue that
the puppies won't be socialized with the family.

You won't have to meet a buyer at your home. Instead, you can meet at a WalMart
parking lot to sell your dog. Wonder how long that will stand.

I got the distinct impression that the greater share of the 200,000 + comments were either
not read or these guys are just "Invincibly Ignorant."

Rule is to be effective 60 days after publication which may be even tonight.

What do you base your assumption on that the "majority of pups are not sent out without buyers coming to see the litter"?

What I can base such on? Well the most unbiased, un-skewed, and absolutely most correct evidence that one can base any assumption on, My Personal Experience, of course , Almost all the litters I've been associated with (mine, training buds, Pro-trainers, etc) Buyers usually come to pick up pups, or meet the breeder @ a function (hunt-test etc.) to pick pups up. Most pup are sold locally, or into the community where the dogs-breeder are runs. It has always seemed that many buyer&sellers do not like the idea of shipping, and will make the trip. A few have flown in to take pups home, under the seat. Of 20+ litters over the years, I know of one pup that was air-shipped without the buyer-breeder interacting face to face, it didn't sit well with the breeder. Maybe this is not the case with high impact breeders, just the case with everyone I know of that breeds.

But then we're talking my personal experience vs. yours... SO of course I'm right LOL

"They's Just DAWGS"
"Hunting is a skill to be learned whether you do it early or late it still needs to be learned"
"I train dogs, Not papers"

Of 20+ litters over the years, I know of one pup that was air-shipped without the buyer-breeder interacting face to face, it didn't sit well with the breeder.

But then we're talking my personal experience vs. yours... SO of course I'm right LOL

I had my pup flown to me without a face to face meeting with the breeder. We spoke on the phone 15+ times and he was paid for before the breeding ever took place. She picked the pup for me based on what I told her I was looking for. We still email back and forth over a year later. I'm pretty sure she is happy with where her pup ended up.

This will keep the mass producing breeders in check. I guess the good breeders will have to choose their breeding wisely.

No, it's going to do exactly the opposite.

The large scale commercial breeding operation will not be affected by this revision at all. This benefits them by eliminating a good share of their competition. They can charge even more for substandard dogs because the suppy will be smaller.

The real loser is the consumer who is going to be priced out of range of owning a purebred dog.