Chinese made fluoride damages Mass. town's water supply machinery

Team 5 Investigates After Amesbury Pulls Sodium Fluoride From Water Supply

AMESBURY, Mass. --

Fluoride is added to the water most of us drink because the government believes it's a safe and inexpensive way to prevent tooth decay.
(Awesome opening line - AF)

However, Team 5 Investigates found the Amesbury Water Department pulled fluoride from its system amid concerns about its supply from China.

Department of Public Works Director Rob Desmarais said after he mixes the white powder with water, 40 percent of it will not dissolve.

"I don't know what it is," Desmarais said. "It's not soluble, and it doesn't appear to be sodium fluoride. So we are not quite sure what it is."

Desmarais said the residue clogs his machines and makes it difficult to get a consistent level of fluoride in the town's water.

Since April the fluoride pumps in Amesbury have been turned off and they will stay that way until Desmarais can find out what's in the fluoride that's imported from China.

Both state and federal health officials told Team 5 Investigates that Chinese fluoride is safe.

The Department of Public Health said it believes that more than 650,000 customers in 44 Massachusetts communities are getting the flouride in question and only Amesbury has temporarily stopped using it.

However, they were unable to say with certainty which of the other 43 communities are actually using the sodium fluoride from China in its water.

The fluoride from China is not used in communities getting water from the MWRA.

The New York company that supplies the fluoride said it is certified by the National Sanitation Foundation which assures the quality of the product.

Approximately 1,000 water systems in the United States use the additive to adjust the fluoride in their water supply, according to The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention

Testing continues to determine the precise composition of the residue.

"They should test it to make sure...it is safe for us to drink," said Paul Stewart who lives in Newburyport. He said he has a right to know exactly what's in his water.

"On the same day that I read the story about fluoride coming from China, I also read about stories about melamine that was being contaminated in milk products coming from China," Stewart said. "And then we had another story about more lead in kids toys from China."

Since 2007, most of the sodium fluoride has been imported from China because it's the least expensive on the market.

"I don't think that when it comes to something that I ingest every day that the lowest bidder is good enough," Stewart said.

Literally rat poison. No seriously. Go get a bottle of rat poison, the main ingredient is likely sodium fluoride.

Last edited by dannno; 03-12-2010 at 07:25 PM.

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"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

Both state and federal health officials told Team 5 Investigates that Chinese fluoride is safe.

Thanks

"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

Literally rat poison. No seriously. Go get a bottle of rat poison, the main ingredient is sodium fluoride.

I'm getting another article ready for posting that states the DPW foreman had been unable to get accurate readings of the amount of flouride that was pumped into the system.

More than 4 mg/l in water renders it UNFIT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION according to EPA.

Fluoride. Many communities add fluoride to their drinking water to promote dental health. Each community makes its own decision about whether or not to add fluoride. EPA has set an enforceable drinking water standard for fluoride of 4 mg/L (some people who drink water containing fluoride in excess of this level over many years could get bone disease, including pain and tenderness of the bones). EPA has also set a secondary fluoride standard of 2 mg/L to protect against dental fluorosis. Dental fluorosis, in its moderate or severe forms, may result in a brown staining and/or pitting of the permanent teeth. This problem occurs only in developing teeth, before they erupt from the gums. Children under nine should not drink water that has more than 2 mg/L of fluoride.

Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004

I had to buy a fluoride filter for my mom because she has kidney disease. In Vegas we didn't start until 2001. I spoke with an administrator with our water district and he gave me the impression our poison came in liquid form. He also said the price has skyrocketed and tripled in cost in just a few years. Sure, cost is low when placed on the ballot then once the fix is in...

I'm really lucky to live somewhere that doesn't have fluoride in the municipal water.. they've tried to push it on us, and I'm in a really liberal area, but to no avail.. it's actually one of the reasons on a long list of why I live here.

"He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
"dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
"You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams"When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

"Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

"Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

AMESBURY — Citing problems with the quality of sodium fluoride flooding the American market, Department of Public Works director Rob Desmarais said Amesbury has no current plans to resume its practice of adding fluoride to the town's water supply.

Though the health benefits to children in adding it to the water supply are well documented, the town discontinued fluoridating its water in April.

Desmarais said he is concerned that the material Amesbury had been getting in recent years did not dissolve as raw sodium fluoride should, leaving questions about the possibility it's being mixed with something else.

"This is the second time we've had to stop because we can't get a reliable supply," said Desmarais last week. "We've been buying the stuff from our supplier, which is the low bidder, and they've been providing us with product that comes from China, which doesn't meet our standards."

Desmarais said while soluble sodium fluoride has traditionally proved easy to dissolve and add to the water supply, in recent years he's found that 40 percent of the product they've been buying will not dissolve, and he doesn't know why. Desmarais has sent the material out for testing on two separate occasions, but had no luck in determining what it contained. He has sent it back to the supplier and had a better quality product delivered following the complaint. But the next delivery presents with the same problem, he said.

In 2007, it was discovered by U.S. health officials that numerous brands of toothpaste purchased from China and being sold in the United states contained a dangerous poison used in antifreeze, prompting a nationwide recall of the Chinese-made products. The toxic material diethylene was found in concentrations as high as 3 to 4 percent under a number of different brand names.

Months later, the FDA banned the sale of baby formula manufactured in China after it was discovered to be tainted with a dangerous toxic chemical, melamine.

Though Desmarais said he's not suggesting the material in the sodium fluoride is similarly dangerous, those two incidents weigh heavily on his mind when he ponders what the material could be.

"We don't know what the stuff is," said Desmarais of the residual material that ends up in the water treatment plant's saturator. "The saturator gets plugged very frequently, and then it will stop adding it."

This creates a problem in assessing how much fluoride is being dispensed at any given time, Desmarais said. While fluoride has proved beneficial to children's dental health, some studies show too much can have detrimental effects.

"We've spent years trying to fix it," Desmarais said. "It makes us hesitant to provide fluoride to the residents because we don't know what the dosage is. We need to be consistent in the dosage and we have this residual, but we don't know what it is."

According to KidsHealth.org, fluoride exists naturally in water sources and is derived from fluorine, the 13th most common element on Earth. It's a substance well known for preventing and reversing the early stages of tooth decay.

The American Dental Association touts the benefits of adding fluoride to municipal water supplies and cites the practice as first being implemented in 1943. It's a measure the ADA credits with being the most effective public health measure for the prevention of dental cavities.

Desmarais doesn't dispute the benefits of adding fluoride to the town's water supply, and he said his department has looked into adding it into the system by some other means — specifically through the addition of a highly concentrated hydro-fluorocytic acid. But the material is highly corrosive and requires a special system to deliver it to the supply. That delivery system is not slated to be part of the town's new water treatment system, as it requires the building of a separate ventilation and containment room.

"It's not part of the proposed project now," Desmarais said. "It's possible. At this point we would have to go for a budget item or separate appropriation to purchase the equipment to add it."

While Amesbury Board of Health Chairwoman Amy Courtney agreed that Desmarais' concerns over the fluoride quality are troubling, she believes if the town isn't going to offer fluoride through the municipal system, it should offer it elsewhere for the benefits cited by the ADA.

"If there is any question that there's a high risk of toxicity, then you definitely don't want to add it to your water supply," Courtney said. "Fluoride can be very toxic."

But that benefit might be offered through other means, she said, to provide the benefits to people who don't have dental insurance.

"You only get one set of teeth, and if you don't take care of them, then you run into a lot of problems later on in your life," Courtney said.

The daughter of a dentist, Courtney said she grew up in a community that used well water and therefore didn't have the ability to fluoridate the supply. She suggests a possible consideration might be to do what her own father did, which is offer a fluoride rinse to schoolchildren one day a year. That would require the buy-in of the schools and perhaps the support of a volunteer dentist in town to oversee the program.

Courtney said doing nothing is not a good idea.

"I have a concern," she said of the discontinued fluoridation. "And I know there are some hygienists in town who have the same concern that they're no longer providing fluoride in the water."

It is pretty stupid that they are buying the cheapest NaF out there. The stuff is available in kilogram quantities for a couple hundred bucks off of Sigma. Reagent grade, greater than 99% purity. Medical grade is probably available for much less.

It is pretty stupid that they are buying the cheapest NaF out there. The stuff is available in kilogram quantities for a couple hundred bucks off of Sigma. Reagent grade, greater than 99% purity. Medical grade is probably available for much less.

Of course its in the dose. But IF there are any benefits from fluoride... they are from topical treatment, not systemic treatment. So drinking fluoride to protect your teeth... is like drinking your sunscreen to protect your skin... or eating your hat to protect your head from the sun.

It is pretty stupid that they are buying the cheapest NaF out there. The stuff is available in kilogram quantities for a couple hundred bucks off of Sigma. Reagent grade, greater than 99% purity. Medical grade is probably available for much less.

The Chinese $#@! they were buying clogged the injectors that measured the dosage.

From what I read, there is no honest way to know what the dosage was, once it started $#@!ing up the metering system.

Never minding the fact that drinking water should never be "dosed" with anything.

Naturally occuring minerals, yeah, they are there and to remove it all to PPB measure would be ludicrous.

Cheap $#@! Chinese crap should not be added in after the fact.

If you think flouride prevents tooth decay, then brush and mouthrinse with it.

Desmarais has sent the material out for testing on two separate occasions, but had no luck in determining what it contained.

So he continued using the same supplier and putting it into drinking water? Great idea. So incompetence is not a firing offense in government?

And what kind of testing lab says "gee, no idea what this stuff is. That will be $10,000.00." (Just a wild guess at testing cost.)

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The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

I always thought the fluoride was absorbed into your system through the digestive tract, but learned a few years ago that it is actually an ionic transfer of some sort directly on the teeth.

Speaking of teeth, I don't understand why the mercury used for fillings isn't considered harmful when they are in our mouths, but when the dentist lets them go down the drain and into the water supply it is considered a pollutant.

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Of course its in the dose. But IF there are any benefits from fluoride... they are from topical treatment, not systemic treatment. So drinking fluoride to protect your teeth... is like drinking your sunscreen to protect your skin... or eating your hat to protect your head from the sun.

Of course its in the dose. But IF there are any benefits from fluoride... they are from topical treatment, not systemic treatment. So drinking fluoride to protect your teeth... is like drinking your sunscreen to protect your skin... or eating your hat to protect your head from the sun.

This is wrong. When you drink fluoride, it is secreted again in your saliva. This is very well characterized.

I am a proponent of fluoridized salt, which is available in Europe (where they don't add fluoride to the water for the most part). It's just that it is ludicrous to claim that fluoride isn't safe, and to rant and rave about how its rat poison, when the dosages are different by a factor of 100,000. It makes you look like a bunch of lunatics.

If you want to get rid of fluoride in drinking water, don't go down the path of fearmongering. Rather, approach it from a position of government incompetence (this is an instance of that), and consumer choice. Write to Morton Salt asking them to introduce fluoridized salt in America. It would cost them almost nothing to do. This is how we get our iodine as well. In this way, anyone could get all the fluoride they want without having to spend a bloody fortune on special mouthwashes and toothpastes. 70 cents for a year's worth, rather than 10.00 for a few months worth (mouthwash and toothpaste). While you're at it, lobby for the abolition of the ADA.

Of course its in the dose. But IF there are any benefits from fluoride... they are from topical treatment, not systemic treatment. So drinking fluoride to protect your teeth... is like drinking your sunscreen to protect your skin... or eating your hat to protect your head from the sun.

And if one chooses to believe the hype, one can add this at home or purchase bottled fluoridated water.

Arguments about fluoride aside, the troubling aspect to me is that the water-treatment worker just keeps putting the stuff in the water supply.

It's the f*cking water supply.

"Your mother's dead, before long I'll be dead, and you...and your brother and your sister and all of her children, all of us dead, all of us..rotting in the ground. It's the family name that lives on. It's all that lives on. Not your personal glory, not your honor, but family." - Tywin Lannister

I find it absolutely amazing and unbelievable that NJ is at the forefront of NOT fluoridating the water. I knew my town's supply wasn't poisoned but had no idea NJ in general wasn't. I guess the mob knows whats up.