While doing some research into anything I could find out about the War Hounds Space Marines, I ran across something interesting.During the Great Crusade, the War Hounds Space Marine Legion was split up into smaller units and sent out into the galaxy.

When the War Hounds were reunited with their Primarch and became the World Eaters, it wasn't the entire Legion - my theory is that the elements that later returned to the bosom of the Empire became the Carcharodon Space Marines.

Nuts?

Well here's my theory in full!

At the beginning of the Great Crusade the Emperor saw the potential of the War Hounds to destroy worlds "and the XII Legion was broken up temporarily into a number of independent sub-commands, each several thousand Space Marines strong. The largest of these, at some 8,000 War Hounds, along with dedicated assault and fleet support elements, was designated the 13th Expeditionary Fleet, or the "Bloody 13th" as it became quickly known." [1]

This "Bloody 13th" became the core of the War Hounds and were later reunited with their Primarch who turned them into the World Eaters. In my theory, out in space the other War Hounds still roamed doing the Emperor's work.

Then, from nowhere "Returning from the black void of space beyond the farthest reaches of the galaxy as strangers to both friend and foe alike, the Carcharodons sided with the Loyalists against those that would would challenge the Imperium of the divine Emperor.The exact origins of this infamous Chapter are hard to pinpoint in Imperial archives as the Carcharodons have left no records of their activities in recent history. They feature nowhere within the open Imperial records, and likewise the Chapter has no officially recorded battle honours." [2]

A mysterious chapter coming out out space to defend the Emperor. They have no history and no battle honours. As if they no longer looked to their past.

"However, sealed and secured records within the Inquisition may shed some light as to the true origins of this Chapter. The oldest of these ancient treatises on the wars of the Imperium of Man may be found within the pages of the Mythos Angelica Mortis written by the savant-scribes of the Secretariat Militum of Terra late in the 35th Millennium. References are made in this oft vague and incomplete work to a Space Marine Chapter identified as the Carcharodon Astra. They were dispatched into the "...outer darkness...upon an endless voyage...to ravage the foes of Mankind..." and to “…set about the Traitor, the alien, and the Renegade without mercy, and harrow them in their places of strength.” This text stems from a far older work, now lost, dating back to the unknown era that surrounds the Astropath Wars of the late 32nd and the early 33rd Millennia. This is a time now shrouded in myth and allegory, and its true nature has been purged from Imperial history so thoroughly that less is known of it than of the Horus Heresy or the Great Crusade." [3]

So the history of the Carcharodons goes back to potentially before the Horus Heresy, certainly to the dark times when the Imperium was fractured.

The look of the Carcharodons is also reminiscent of the War Hounds "Those Carcharodons who have been seen often sport arms of ancient providence. They are far more likely to carry weapons such as the ancient Phobos R/017 Pattern Bolter or the Mark V Heresy Pattern Power Armour from ten thousand years in the Imperium’s past, alongside other weapons and gear that span the entirety of that ten millennium history."

This might seem a bit tenuous, but have a look at how the Carcharodons use bronze on their armour - as a sign of rank or honour. The same way the War Hounds and the World Eaters do.

Then there is their fighting style "Merciless" is perhaps the best descriptor for the Carcharodons in combat, but even that does not describe the depths of blood-soaked slaughter to which they are willing to descend. They fight with a wild abandon that could make even the most impetuous Space WolvesBlood Claw take pause, and do not ask for or grant mercy to their opponents beyond a quick (though seldom clean) death. In a way, they seem to see the universe very much in terms of black and white, enemy and ally. Anyone who stands against the Imperium, for whatever reason, can only expect a brutal demise at the hands of the Carcharodons." [4].

Similarly, the War Hounds are described as "developing a reputation for victory, although at a cost, and it was said every assault they conducted ended in only one of two ways: victorious slaughter or simple slaughter, either of which left the foe in no condition to resist further." [5]

Again - very similar to the War Hounds and the very reason the War Hounds were sent into deep space so long ago!

The Carcharodons also favour the chainsword and chainaxe, so often associated with the War Hounds (and later the World Eaters).

I could be completely wrong - but the idea of the remnants of the War Hounds coming back into Imperial space and being told of their Legion's betrayal then siding with the Emperor, appeals greatly.

Also, if the Carcharodons are meant to be a 23rd Founding Legion, this was the time the Emperor needed as many loyal marines as possible - why not get some of his fiercest warriors from the past?

References

I like it!
Also a few other candidates (Based on direct approach to war, shrouded/ conflicted origins and inclusion of bronze in their colours) which could also be remnant are the Minotaurs. There are at least 3 Chapters within this scope : Minotaurs, Brazen Minotaurs and White Minotaurs. Let me know what you think... They don't have to be psychopaths to be war hounds, as they hadn't had the nails implanted then, Assault and brotherhood would be the two main attributes of the War Hounds, and I think that assists these theories..

Reply

The_Big_Zebrowsky

8/10/2014 12:56:59

Your theory is quite interesting,but theres one fairly obvious point that would contradict it : according to Imperial Armour the Carcharodons geneseed does come with a few genetic deviances such ass all-black iris & pupils. These are the hallmarks of Raven Guard geneseed, an unique feature as emphazised in Horus Heresy Vol.3 Extermination. As the XIIth Legion the original XIXth Legion splintered at the homecoming of Corax, Corvus Corax regarding some elements within the Pale Nomads ( as they were known at the time) as too close to enforcers and prison guards he had to fight in his youth on Deliverance. These, including their earthwhile Legion Commander Corax sent also into the Outer Darkness as Nomad Predation Fleets, a stategic unit pattern the Carcharodons still follow at the time of the Badab War. More importantly those splinter-Raven Guard were deemed too savage and bloodthirsty to succesfully incorporate the Raven Guard and were not recalled at the eve of the Istvaan V atrocity.
So sadly, it seems that your theory has been disprouved by more recent background.

Reply

Beardy Hammer

9/10/2014 16:20:01

Wow.
Thanks for that informed and considered response.
I haven't read HH3, so all this is new to me.
Interesting how there was the similarities of a loyalist Chapter coming back as someone else, but Raven Guard - who knew.
Really appreciate your comment.
I will hope that one day the War Hounds can be seen as loyalists and not tainted with the sullied chainaxe of their fallen brethren.
Keep in touch!

Will wright

17/4/2015 05:30:04

Be fair there is one other legion with Black Eyes and a rep for being vicious

Chainsawmaniac

18/3/2015 13:58:58

Hey there,
it is a late response to this topic, but I stumbled across this blog just two days ago.
I personally agree with the theory of the Carcharodons being a "successor" chapter of the War Hounds. True, their gene seed speeks of being successors to the Raven Guard because of the white skin and black eyes. But on the other hand, the bodies of Astartes directly react to their surroundings. See, for example the Salamanders. Constant input of radiation let their skin turn black and the eyes glowing red. Perhaps some cosmic radiation led to something similar with them? And the Carcharodons modus operandi also tends more to the War Hounds, like it is mentioned above. Raven Guard, and all known successor chapters, tend to be more likely using a sneaky kind of warfare.

Hey Maniac!
Only just saw this comment, so sorry for the delay.
Thanks for the support - I rally can see these guys being related in some way.
I'm working on a project at the moment that might be able to show this clearer to people.
As you say, the modus operandi is the same - so many axes and blades!
Appreciate the comment.

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In a time before 40k, there was a band of men and women who took part in gaming without the corporate sensibilities of today. Take a step back with us and also look upon the future through wizened eyes and curious ponderings of The Beardy Hammer!