"We can't even make a consistent prognosis of her fate, including... whether she is alive or dead."
UPDATE JANUARY 2010 THE MCCANNS COULD HAVE BEEN CHARGED WITH CHILD KIDNAPPING AND TRAFFICKING (Pt Prosecutor giving evidence in an ongoing case in Portugal where the McCanns are demanding ONE MILLION POUNDS IN DAMAGES FROM THE OFFICER WHO INVESTIGATED THEM!!!

1 Feb 2008

Granny Cooper's "Evidence"

I found an interesting article in the Guardian "Confessions of a Forensic Psychologist" generally explaining how their evidence is now routinely admissible in serious criminal cases - contrary to such experts in criminal law and procedure as "Mum21" "SassyP" and "Rosiepops" on the Daily Express forum....(!) I see they also have a resident libel law expert who previously went under the name of Mr HughJanus, now U2 - clearly one to be taken very seriously. In fact a read of the Daily Express forum now could be compared with the forum to attack other forums..No matter, if they feel the need to keep discussing me and my contributors, having a "sneaky peak" (Elaine) or even contributing here ...huge, then we can be sure they are just a little worried.

Ahem er speaking of the expertise of Rosiepops I just came across this when reading back on the DE and just could not resist sharing it: so er from Barry George then there WAS some gunfire and er... ahem... gunshot residue is er.... DNA - Now come on Docmac I just know you are going to have something to say about this LOOOOOOOOOOOL

- Forgive me folks I do love a belly aching good laugh sometimes and the expertise of our Rosie never fails to disappoint :-)))) Funny how she and her colleague/further legal/scientific expert seem to have overlooked all the other evidence against this pervert who liked to stalk Jill Dando and Princess Diana - suspect if Rosie had the intellect to read the full law report (which I know she does not) she would be pretty horrified to read about this chap she would like to er spring....I here she is in the process of moving house - nice if she got him for a neighbour!

U215.01.08, 11:44pmROSIEPOPS15.01.08, 11:39pmBarry George's conviction looks decidedly unsafe - it seems that it was all down to a very tiny piece of possible gunshot residue...I think juries are very heavily swayed by the scientific evidence even if its pretty minimal and open to question.• Posted by: U2 • Report Comment~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~I believe this came down to one speck of residue from the gunfire! A juror has since said she felt pressurised and has always worried that she helped send an innocent man to prison!Thing is this DNA could have got thereby Locards theory from a policeman searching through his pockets, easily and innocently done!• Posted by: Rosiepops

There has been a lot of criticism of Clarence's press release where he issued a photofit of a suspect supposedly responsible for the abduction of Madeleine. Innocent men have been hounded and their lives quite possibly put at risk by vigilante attacks.

As we know, this was without the authority of either Leicestershire or PJ police.

Gudjonsson, below, confirms the danger of false allegations and how suggestible witnesses may be. We saw Granny Cooper saying she found this man "spooky" etc. In order to avoid these dangers, where witnesses are making serious allegations against someone, accepted good practice is for the witnesses evidence to be stringently tested by the police and tape recorded.

This highlights still further the dreadful behaviour of Team McCann in this instance, where Granny Cooper was not in fact stating anything at all about this mans behaviour that could link him to the Madeleine case and the police were not even involved. She was simply paid by the News of the World to make scurrilous claims. What outrageous behaviour.

Viv xPlease see also a very good article on the defence to libel of responsible, honest, investigative journalism :-) Amen to that...

The third, and greatest, problem area is false allegations. "I believe false confessions today are less of a problem than false allegations," says Gudjonsson. "There is accumulating research evidence that it is much easier for people to make up false allegations, even serious allegations, than the courts realise."People are often too eager to help the police. They may have an over-extended imagination. If the police ask all the people from a certain care home, 'Were you abused?' Even that may be sufficient for people to think, 'Maybe it happened to me then, even though I don't remember it. I think I was abused. Yes, I must have been abused.'"It's important that people who make allegations are very carefully interviewed, because their evidence can easily result in a miscarriage of justice. All interviews in serious cases should be tape-recorded." This is a recommendation that Gudjonsson made to the home affairs select committee, in its inquiry into abuse investigations in care homes. The committee accepted the recommendation in its report, which is now being studied by the Home Office.

182 comments:

Anonymous
said...

I agree with you about people in their eagerness to be helpful can fabricate things. And of course the mind will participate in whatever direction it is led.When I used to have the occasional visit to a psychic I would find the same thing. They never got anything right eg. you have one child, and then I go no well 6 and then I would give them help in order to get a right answer.Don't know if I have explained this well but I understood what you were saying.

Yes I think it is called be suggestible. Anyone who had been to PDL around that time would quite naturally be wracking their brains trying to think if they saw or heard anything and it would be all too easy to pick on someone as she did and start building a case - particularly with persuasion from News of the World and Team McCann.

I think your allusion to the lack of knowledge displayed by Rosiepops is very apt. She has continually stated that anyone can find any information on the internet and become an expert, hence her continued crticism of me. What she does not realise, of course, is that a huge percentage of what is written on the internet is nonsense. If one is indeed an expert in a particular field one can easily separate the wheat from the chaff. Anyone who relies on Wikipedia as their major source of information on very technical subjects can not be taken seriously as a wheat and chaff separator.

Furthermore, may I say that there are other DNA 'experts' on Team McC who have demonstrated their lack of critical reading skills in this area in the past. I think particularly of that fraud Mark55. I remember further Alroy in all his guises, as well as dear old Christabel. Now the latter was the worst researcher of all. No wonder she was fired. Remember all her bizarre Jehovah's Witness posts?

Hi Viv, This from the Joana Morais website. It would seem that a genuine technicality spotted by an English Magistrate may have held up the rogatory letters sent via Eurojust. Obviously all legal niceties must be adhered to.

1 Feb 08"The Public Ministry is due today to send the final version of the rogatory letter that is destined to question the parents of Madeleine McCann and their friends again.

This will be the end of a 'soap opera' that began after a magistrate from the British Home Office unauthorized her colleague at Eurojust, the European entity which processes the interchange of judicial issues among the various countries. She demanded that the letter is sent through official channels - which means through the Portuguese Public Prosecutor's Office and the Ministry for Foreign Affairs.

José Lopes da Mota, the president of Eurojust, minimizes saying: "The letter was made with the collaboration of a representative from Eurojust. A magistrate from the Home Office decided that the legal procedures for the sending of the document had not been fulfilled and informed the colleague at Eurojust. After everything was duly analysed, we decided to request Portugal to make the letter again and to send it through official channels."

Pinto Monteiro, the Public Prosecutor, assumes he made a wrong option: "What happened with the rogatory letters is no secret. They were with Eurojust... Some obstacles were raised by the English magistrate. The letters ended up returning, and will now be sent through the international cooperation, which depends upon this Office. They will be sent today [yesterday] or tomorrow [today]."

Carlos Anjos, the president of ASFIC, the Criminal Investigation Officers' Union, was laconic: "At this moment, the ball is not in the PJ's court."

Well of course I agree - your subject is medicine and my own the law. Neither of us would say we know everything about such vast subjects, or indeed, remember everything we learned. But, what we did learn is the basic understanding of the subject and to specialise in certain areas where our knowledge is much stronger. University teaches sound research skills. This is essential in a complex and ever expanding subject. With those skills we know how to track down relevant information and rapidly process and understand it. Without that fundamental training - it is impossible to process and understand complex information in a given area as Rosiepops and Co so clearly demonstrate. I get very fed up of her pronouncements about the law, criminal evidence etc. a subject that anyone who has studied as I have to degree level would still willingly accept they find intensely difficult. If only she knew just how silly she sounds. I am sure you find the same in relation to medical matters..bits of metal residue oh dear!

I have read that a couple of times and have to say I am concerned. Eurojust is the official agency whereby different member states can have information collated, meetings arranged etc. If this information is correct it sounds as though UK authorities are seeking to exclude Eurojust who could oversee the process and make sure full co-operation is afforded. It is like they are being snubbed and I really do wonder why. It really does concern me.

I hope UK lawyers on behalf of the Foreign /Home Office are not trying to play fast and loose with the Portuguese. It does seem very picky to say to Eurojust send it back and get the Portuguese to forward it direct. It gives me a distinctly uneasy feeling.

I'm posting a link to a petition in the independent today that you can sign online. It is to save Sayed Pervez Kambaksh.

He has been imprisoned since october in Afghanistan for reading and sharing an article downloaded from the net on women's rights.

On Tues, a secret trial took place without an attorney, and he has been sentenced to death under Afghan criminal law for supposedly decrying Islam and the Koran. He is a student journalist and some of his class mates reported him for the "offence".

So far there have been >26,000 signatures. There is also a facebook site for him and on his behalf. This is a quote from an Afghan lady on this site:

The thing that Parvez printed off the internet was very true. It talks about how quran talks about women. For instance, beating women (so inhumane) is permitted in Islam. I hope the fanatics wouldn't be able to harm Kambaksh! Let's keep our fingers crossed for him!!! :)

Thanks Viv, I may have read it wrongly thinking that protocol required the documents to be sent from the Portuguese Ministry to Eurpjust rather than from the Portuguese Prosecutor's Office to Eurojust. If so, better to take the time to get it right and avoid an appeal about bad protocol later, than to rush it through. But, of course, as you say, it could be just delaying tactics, if so, it will soon be clear I think.

Hi All,Wishing you all the best in your ongoing inquiries, and it's been interesting to read, and very informative, and I look forward to reading again sometime.For now, this will be a last post for a little while. Doh! Life. It takes over sometimes :-)But as a last thought: I don't understand why people think that the Press and journalists have abandoned Maddie. Everything posted on sites relies on Press reporting. Maybe there are other issues involved, and the Press trust readers to read between the lines, and pursue inquiry in their own way, using life experience and professional experience?Maybe investigative journalists use this hiatus before criminal charges or libel court to gather firm facts and figures; the kinds of things their lawyers need to fight a successful court action or print full background features at a later time?Just a thought. Justice for Madeleine, however long it takes.Thank you, Viv, for your courage in setting up this site. Thank you other posters for your good natured ways.Hasta la vista. xoP.S. McCann mechanics: see you in court, and that includes anyone who told lies about missing Maddie. OK, media 'monitors', PRs, Mitchell, paymasters, friends and family? See you sometime.

I see that Express got rid of almost everyone, only ecolab and dogmad left.Alsabella's profile states: This poster has been blocked by Nikki.Who is Nikki?I am out as well.Nothing interesting left on DX anyway only squabble.

Hello Viv, I am not very good with sentiments, but great job with your site.An idea: if there will not be more news next days, may be we should recap on what we know so far and analyze it. just an idea for the article.

And finally, finally.Docmac: all the very best to you and yours always. xo

Everyone on this forum: the DE forum is dead tonight. Dead. Done. Soon to be forgotten. It's just sad McCann apologists talking to each other, and asking why it's so quiet.

The DE must now re-think its crass, cynical policy in allowing thugs to dominate a mainstream newspaper.

I hope no one is tempted to return to that forum. The DE need to see what happens when they fail to protect readers. Readers leave, and the DE is left with McCann mechanics, and morons...apart from a few sweet souls like Kodiak from Canada and a couple others who don't realise what has happened, bless them.It's an early bath tonight for the McCann mechanics...and don't they know it!See you all at a much later time when the guilty are facing more than contemptuous silence.xo

Hello Anonymous,Yes it is so strange to see DX forum now it used to be fool of information and sparks , so interesting, when I joined it in august, i think. Well its up to police now to make the next step.

P.S. The rumors about 10th person ouzel me. Normally I can tell when something is not believable. But those rumors are very persistent. The only thing is I do not remember was it waiter’s testimony? If it was it might be true.If it is true PJ would know and the name of that person on the list for interview.

Thanks for the link to the Independent re Kambaksh imprisoned for defending womens rights. I have no objection to this blog being used to forward the cause of justice for anyone suffering such oppression and have signed the Petition. Wonder whether it will help though. Poor man - what an oppressive regime - they have a long way to go in getting up to speed on human rights and equality!

Islam means peace - some fanatics in Afghanistan have a strange way of interpreting that! I believe the Koran actually suggests women should be treated with respect..rather than flogged and oppressed and likewise for anyone who suggests they move into the modern world…how sad that fanatics give such a strained interpretation. Viv x

Hi Eureka

I have tired to read around this and cannot be clear what is happening other than the papers should be arriving in UK very shortly. Let us give the best interpretation and hope the UK government are not being obstructive. I can see no reason to simply cause delay. How is that going to benefit the McCanns?

They and their supporters say they welcome the further questioning of the friends as they feel this will clear them. Whilst that is clearly very unlikely I am sure they do want the process to move on. Being subject of any pending court proceedings is intensely stressful and so I think our government would only make things worse for the McCanns by prolonging the agony.

I note the Daily Express have got rid of practically anyone who can provide an informed view on what is currently happening. I just had a look at last night's exchange on the DE and aside from a very few it is like some third rate internet chat room. Rosiepops has morphed back into one of her other characters Christabel. I recall this is the one who was quite obsessed with the idea that Murat is a paedophile and quoted some lurid rubbish from various forums on the net to support this view - according to Rosie she has a great talent for research - well I suppose she would say that!

When you consider the Daily Express has taken the story off their site altogether - you have to be "in the know" to get into their little chatroom, together with general lack of reporting at the moment, I think it all adds credence to the view the McCanns are now facing the final stages of the investigation against them and the press are being very careful indeed about what they print and what they allow others to write. Hence they just leave the morons to have a little chat knowing they are quite harmless in terms of getting them into trouble for adverse comment against people such as the McCanns about to face very serious charges. In a way you could say they are acting responsibly - although perhaps they should stop the forum altogether!

This site will continue however and I agree with Irina's suggestion that we can continue to review what we know of the case against the McCanns so far.

Ola Claudia my lovely

It was good news for my son and I yesterday. It is a benign lump that can probably just be left alone. He goes for a review in two weeks as this did not have the full report from the scan yesterday but was seen by a urologist and his consultant in charge so I am satisfied.

Is there any useful news from Portugal - can you tell us a little more on the rogatory letters confusion?

Hiya Ecolab

I know it does seem odd that Maddie had highlights to her hair etc and whilst this is inappropriate for a little girl her age would not want to read too much into that. Mum seems quite obsessed about her own appearance - maybe she just let Maddie join in with that? I understand the implications but do not want to go there. If there is anything of this nature it will be revealed I am sure.

L3 - if that is you I really hope we are not losing you. I think the press do have to be very careful what they report now for fear of prejudicing the trial. Like you say the press rely on people to read between the lines. It is not that they want to get rid of intelligent debaters on their forum - more a question of they are a bit too intelligent! People should pick up on the fact that so often the comment was "removed for legal reasons" - there is the clue! We are a good natured lot and will continue to have good natured debate on here. If the monkeys want to take some credit about being left in their little chat room - let them! There is none so blind as…

I would echo Docs xxxxxxxxxx and hope you don’t desert us because we love to read you!

Doc - have a great trip and do let us know about the fabulous wildlife you see when you get back - we will all miss you!

Irina - you are much too smart to be left on the DE  and would surely die of boredom in that little chatroom Did they ban you too!

Doc - dealt with Bobby rather nicely - he can pseudo off  I wont delete his comment (even though I just learned how to) because it would spoil your reply!

Doc/Irina I am afraid I am as mystified as everyone else re T10 but maybe all will be revealed soon! I think our greatest researcher is IRONSIDE WHERE ARE YOU IRONSIDE?? He is normally on every day so hope he is OK - although I have not read other threads yet so maybe he is around!

Oxymoron - good laugh and they posted a link to this site so I like then 

I think Ironside's on his hols as he worked through Christmas. He said something about going to see his mum...

I think I read something (on here?) about Alsabella now having been blocked on the DE! I would say will the last person please turn out the lights, but seeing who's left on there, I don't think they've got the mental capacity!

dont know if you have spotted it but the official website has had a re launch.Madeleine even gets a mention on this one! although it is written in very cool, unemotional terms.what is more interesting I feel is the amount of information about the fund not being a charity. I think they must be concerned about the legalities of what they have done with the money.

Not sure Alsabella has been banned. If you go to her last 20 posts where it comes up as banned- it is November! Something very strange there - I remember her saying at the time well I have not been banned but it is not a carbon copy - it does say Alsabella not belia or something! Weird!

Hope4 was just reading you on the DE - good exchange :-)

LGC - thanks yes Ironside did say that !

How can the fact of neglect be relevant? It is just an excuse for that er window of opportunity. They cancelled the babysitter that night...now why did they do that?

I was posting on the DE until a few days ago (noticed you weren't around much) when I received a 'warning email' from the moderators out of the blue...I've written about it on a thread here, but briefly, I called them up and they were very haughty and not listening to me so I thought sod it, frankly. (Well, that's not quite as frank as I could be!).

Apparently, one of the many 'Rosiepops's' the other day complained about me targetting them! The only post of mine the mods removed was a very short one saying that Rosiepops didn't appear to be who she said she was (the posts were completely ludicrous Hope, not her syntax or vocab at all; Opus could have made a better stab at being her), so I guess they're coming down heavily now on anyone persistently 'Anti' who point out what's really going on.

LGC I am betting it was OPUS who nudged you on the arm and said hey marmy did you notice that aint even that rosie is it?

My Doc colleague echoed those same sentiments quite independently of you saying it. They use the log ins for anyone available seems to me - I mean did you see Chinadoll got a personality transplant? Suddenly she is nice and reasonable that cannot be the one we know turning up saying now do you want a fight! Christobel, Helen M , Peace and Harmony, Gentlebreeze all figments of Rosie's imagination - funny how they always agreed with her/had late night chats with her at 2/3 a.m, Maudlin too (could any real person be that dense?)

I was wondering what happened to Lizzie. I notice huge threatened her about the 81 lies telling her that was libel! Lizzie trust me it wasnt and if it was I would delete it otherwise I would get the blame - come back and take no notice of that fat twit - that is his role to slyly pop on her have a read and then threaten people. He knows nothing - trust one who does :-)

You're completely right! It WAS Opus who noticed - apparently, he smelled a rat (or more to the point, several), and that's not his favourite aroma, as well you know...

Don't quite know what the point is of them all telling each other how lovely they are at two in the morning - unless it fulfils their contractual obligations to earn their keep. Or maybe it's a kind of 21st Century virtual orgy?? (Practise Safe Posting - Always Use a Forum).

Funny how the original Rosiepops needed cover when the McPosters would have been travelling from Planet McCann down to the LSE and, sadly, back again (as the saying goes: "If they can put one man on the Moon, why can't they put all all of Team McCann on it?")

X LGC and Opus (yes, one of us has a big nose. Alright, possibly both of us, but not necessarily in that order).

I am glad you are in self imposed excile have you thought of going to Sybeira Opus would love it...

I am not going to post much on there anymore there is no point. The thing that makes me laugh is they really think that they are making a diffrence and people are hanging on their every word. When DocMac posted on here last week they were all talking about him wanting his 15 minutes of fame???

He never posted it on the DX (dont think) and if he wanted 15 minutes of fame a HYS forum is not going to give it to him (or any of us)....

We Have our say as a debate talk to a few people we like and that is about as much fame as we will get from it???

RP does not always sound like herself it is blatent but I dont read much of what she says anyway.... Her Avatar makes me laugh it reminds me of Dolores Umbridge from harry potter (not sure if you have read or seen them all) but she is an evil witch and talks in a silly cutsie voice and has plates all over her office with pictures of fluffy cats on them. I have never disliked Imelda Staunton so much she plays her brilliantly really cruel and evil....

I understand the family want to believe G&K and defend them but if I had left my girls like they did my Mother would kill me and would not make any excuses for me. She would be there for me but would be sickend by all the spin...

I am off shopping as I forgot to place an on line order this week :o( just hope it is quiet as the rugby is on)...

See you later I will be sure to buy some Herring should Opus want to visit....

Hiya LCC dont know whether you are still there - just thought better wash off before someone comes but then thought no and loaded the dishwasher - huge effort!

Oldhips seemed to be far more eloquent of late but still makes some incredible spelling mistakes. Bark I think is the 18 year old who designed the web page. He said other night he has 13 month old little girl and they cannot hear her if she cries at night - where do they live - a castle! You know even if the McCanns had been in their bed Maddie would still have been snatched...Next day he said his two little BOYS are jumping on his computer.

Kitten lover I agree one of the aunts or maybe gran. Oldhips gets the most furious about the effect on the family but since she had about 20 posts deleted in one day has calmed down a lot with her foul mouth. Main rosiepops right old school maam type isnt she ...real bully now just go back and listen to what I said..I dont know how many times I have to tell you this. Save your breath old love!

Hello everyone, hope you are all well and having a good weekend.the reason I am writing is because there is some sky news footage of Kate McCann going to the PDL church shortly after Maddie went missing. During the footage, Kate is in a very bad state and keeps turning her eyes to the camera repeatedly, fixing the camera with a 'look'. I have always found this behaviour strange, why did she feel the need to constantly stare at the camera in such a way? Does anyone remember this footage, and if you do, what do you think? Why was she doing this. Since that day I have always suspected that the McCanns knew more than they were letting on, though it could have been also the guilt of letting their children alone. Thanks

PS. I noticed a couple of days ago RP was raging at the ugly photo you have of G and she is going to do her utmost to have it removed,what a scream....lol.Ican't believe she did'nt see it in the newspaper.

I'm so glad it's not some of MY family involved in such a terrible ordeal - what on earth do you do in the event of them protesting their innocence, but with all the attendant evidence mounting up against their story?

I certainly don't believe I'd be able to launch into an aggressive defence of anyone in those circumstances. But maybe these McCanns are totally in denial? Or arrogant enough to believe they should be able to pervert the course of justice just because it's their relatives being accused?

Kate and Gerry's dismissive attitude to parenting takes your breath away, doesn't it? I'm more 'hands on' with my son than they were with their toddlers, and he's going on 16! I've also wanted him to grow up knowing how much he is wanted and loved, and holidays were always times to show him other places and give him a grounding in what the world has to offer. I've always been terrified of him growing up and thinking thank god the childhood bit's over!

Ah well, each to their own. It IS difficult being a parent, and we all know those days when it's a relief that bedtime has arrived. But frankly I've never seen the point of having kids if you don't want to spend at least SOME time in their company. Especially on holiday. (But perhaps that's not what this particular holiday was about?)

Interesting who you say R'Pops reminds you of - she reminds me of Doris Archer from Ambridge!!

Tried that - deadlink - do you mean the new find maddie site. Notice Kate is doing the talking on missing children. It is a bit late to try and give the impression she is in charge. Looks better than the last attempt by the 18 year Bark55 who fantacises about having some little children all of his own to ignore whilst they or she are in bed.

I did not see RP raging about the photo. Weird how she will not touch this site with a barge pole but every few days has a raveup about what is on here. If she really does not like me using that particular pic of Gerry I will make sure I use it more often:-) I wonder what her lawyers told her about defamation of character. Perhaps you have to have a nice character to defame. Going back to that shot of Gerry - I keep visualising two horns rising from his head. Dont know why - it just seems natural that they should. If you could imagine the look on someone's face who was so furious they were just about to murder you...

Did she think I snook over to Rothley and took the shot myself the dopy old bat - he probably would like that if he met me though I suppose.

Luv ya Viv xx

By the way sickofconspiracies AKA Huge Anus has just been on again on the other thread! Told him to sling his...

Old Hippy does seem to have more than one persona. Sometimes she's very laid back and "cool", at others she a raging rottweiler.

I've commented in the past about how ironic it is that her name is Hippy, since when she's in rottie mode she's more right wing than a very right wing person indeed! (Which she doesn't understand, nor really what being a hippy is about).

What a horribly hard bunch they are.

Oh, I'll try and find Rosiepops' post about Metodo3 being employed to track down paedophiles who don't pay their taxes. Should be with you in about a year and a half, Madeleine...

You sound like a lovely mom. That is the heartbreaking thing isnt it - what sort of holiday was it for their children anyway, even for the two who managed to live right the way through it.

If they just wanted a holiday to be really into each other as Kate rather interestingly put it - referring to her "friends" I wonder why they even bothered to bring the children at all. She was trying to imply they may have had the odd few minutes here and there for their children if their friends had not been there. As they have a big family, presumably, they could have dumped the children somewhere at home. That way the children would have probably got the love and attention they need.

I just could not believe the went on the tour of Europe and dumped their kids again after the "lost" Maddie, or, that they continued to dump the twins in the creche and go jogging. It was like oh shucks we lost Maddie, we will have to stay here for a bit, so hey, let's carry on as normal. As their friends had gone home then, who were they "into" then - themselves perhaps - now that's a change! Nothing was going to spoil their extended holiday was it - let's dump the kids and go jog!

In order to grow up normal children need to feel loved and wanted. Apart from the horror of what happened to Maddie, let us go play hunt the monster who took Maddie... what chance do these two little twins have of growing up any different to their mom and dad? They are now 3 - The Social Services Department should have rescued these two little mites and brought them into a normal loving family 9 months ago. It is just an unmitigated disaster for those two little loves.

Here it is, folks - for all you sceptics who thought the McCanns were bonkers engaging financial fraud specialists Metodo3 to find Madeleine. The real reason straight from the mouth of One Who Knows. Read it and weep.

ROSIEPOPS:-

"They are SAS trained from what I understand, which means UK military training. If they aren't SAS themselves, the people they employ are. There is also the fact that Pedophiles are frauds themselves involved in many under the table business dealings including tax evasion. They got famous American mafioso Al Capone on tax evasion because they couldn't prove anything else.

They know their job, they have 100 percent accuracy, so their Fraud business training must have enabled them to follow a paper trial, if nothing else, to each of their clients.

I don't see them doing so bad, and the Moroccan girl was a very close look a like to Madeleine, but turned out to be an abducted American girl."

I very much look forward to your explanation of how Counter-Terrorism training and being skilled in the Protection of Diplomats will help the hunt for Madeleine.

Doubt that Metodo 3 got Al Capone in the end, but if they have been engaged in order to capture a paedophile for not paying his taxes, they'll have to wait at the very least until the end of the NEXT financial year to see that he hasn't done so. Perhaps parents of missing children might find waiting for this (lack of) paper trail a little galling until April 2009.

Also doubt that they have 100% success rate.

The fact that the Moroccan girl looked quite like Madeleine would not really have made her parents feel much better, would it? Are they comforted by girls 'looking like' Madeleine if they don't turn out to be her in the end? Didn't realise it worked like that.

If this is why they've been hired - for finding small, blond girls who 'look a bit like Madeleine' - I'm sure I could put together a competitive quote for a contract and do somewhat better; loads of small, blond girls looking a bit like Madeleine in this part of Surrey...

Hi Viv, Don't worry U2 doesn't scare me, he obviously doesn't read properly or he would have seen all the fuss from the DE of me forgetting to put the original posters name to the post from the Mirror forum, was on my way to bed when I saw his post and told him if he had read it he would have seen it wasn't my post I didn't want to take the credit for somebody else's work and wasn't aware I could be sued for somebody else's post. He is a prat in my opinion and is trying to scare anyone from amking any negative comments re the gruesome twosome.

Hi Viv, I agree with you and others who believe the Pro's are changing but using the same names. Rosiepops is not the same person who I have seen at the begining when I first started posting, well it may be her sometimes. But she now seems to post really stupid comments, the other day for example she said if the Police knew where Madeleine was, they would be arresting the Mccanns, I immedialtely posted her and said Do you think by that the Mccanns should be arrested? No response. A wierd comment even for her.

Well, I've TRIED to be a lovely mum! Point is, it's very hard and energy-sapping and sometimes totally frustrating, but I've seen it as being the least I could do for my son. At the end of it all, even if you don't feel great affection for your child (and I adore mine), I think you still have a duty of care and a moral responsibility to take an interest in him/her/them. It's your job.

Yes, being with small children can be boring and very taxing, but if you can't even show them you want to give them a good time with you on holiday - and have better things to do than be around them to protect them when they are sleeping - well, how sad (and negligent) is that?

I'm sure when the twins are older they will initially accept the explanation that the blame for their sister's disappearancefalls totally upon the 'abductor'. But as they get older still, and maybe have their own children, they will begin to question the circumstances in which this was allowed to happen.

But I also agree with you that the twins personality will be deeply affected by all this - and also by the genentic inheritance that is their fate.

I'm leaving, on a jet plane. See you all in 9 days. Hopefully those rogatories will have been delivered by the time I return. I'll be thinking of you all whilst in deepest, darkest Africa. Keep safe and warm.

Oh my - did Rosie really say that about the Retardos! The Moroccan girl was an American girl - oh please! Well yes I wish they would give me loads of dosh to hunt down some Maddie a likes! A paper trail to each of their clients - what is this woman on - heroin? Defend them? She will get them hung!

Oh how I wish I could meet Inspector Clooney.. Cloeuseu was nice but long gone bless him. I see that sickofconspiracies was a big fan in his alterego higgers - I dont know tracking this lot takes a degree level education!

Responding to the reported comments of Alipio Ribeiro, the National Director of the Portuguese Policia Judiciaria (PJ), in an interview recorded for Radio Renascenca due to be broadcast on Sunday Feb 3rd 2008, Clarence Mitchell said:

“Kate and Gerry McCann very much welcome Alipio Ribeiro’s reported comments in which he accepts that Portuguese police officers under his authority acted too hastily in making the McCanns official suspects. Now that the National Director of the Policia Judiciaria apparently accepts that they should not have been made arguido, it follows that there is no case for Kate and Gerry to answer. As I have consistently said, Kate and Gerry are entirely innocent of any involvement in the disappearance of Madeleine and now, in the light of Mr Ribeiro’s remarks, we urge the Portuguese judicial authorities to act humanely by removing their arguido status as swiftly as possible. Not only does it continue to damage their reputation in the eyes of the world, it is also directly hampering the search for Madeleine, as many people who may have vital information have possibly not been coming forward because they have wrongly suspected the McCanns. If the Portuguese police, under Mr Ribeiro, now do the only proper thing by eliminating Kate and Gerry from their enquiry, they and our own investigators can work together rapidly and effectively to find Madeleine and to bring those responsible for her abduction to justice.”

sickof....Spin spin spin.....Robeiro said it would be better if they hadn't been made suspects before the investigation had proceeded more...he has always maintained that the investigation is going in the RIGHT direction.

WTF When is he talking about Ribeiro has never said his officers acted too hastily did he? In any case saying they acted too hastily is certainly not saying they should never have been made arguidos is it? He deliberately misconstrues IMO. I think actually they DID act too hastily. Sousa was all for playing them along a lot longer, not allowing them to know they were suspects so that they would stay longer and more could be got out of them form obs/bugs etc.

How utterly ABSURD to suggest any police service would work hand in glove with the retardos - is he for real?

That is more like it and certainly my understanding. I think it was prompted by Mcs saying they were going home - this caused the investigating officers to panic - they wanted to make them arguidos whilst still in their jurisdiction for legal reasons, otherwise it could have been much more difficult to get the co-operation of Britain. It was a difficult judgment to make I think but I understand why the decision was taken - maybe McCanns were being clever forcing their hand - they obviously knew they were under suspicion in spite of Sousa doing his best to keep denying it, bless him.

VivWhat did I ever do to you???I'm not against anyone here. I agree that my first post was provocative but I quite like the posters here, and I don't have any other aliases, in fact I'm pretty new here and have never been posting on the DE. I do think that footage I mentioned before is interesting from a psychological point of view.Clarrie was on Sky news earlier triumphant because the PJ apparently said that they were too 'hasty' in naming the McCanns as arguidos.any comments on that?Regards

LGC Hiya just backtracking on this a bit - if K&G are convicted, and I think they will be, I am afraid the twins will have their explanation. My own thoughts are though that Gerry should get life and Kate either a short sentence/medical treatment or probation/medical treatment. The other two - again possibly mercy for Jane - children..probation but I doubt she will get that mercy in the circumstances or Kate most likely custody but there can be no mercy for OB the way it looks - custody.

No I'm not Viv, I am fully aware they may have done more, thats why I post some questions here, because I might get some answers and opinions. In my line of work I always have to consider two hypothesis, one for the prosecution and one for the defence. That means questioning all evidence, don't take it too personally.

Thanks Merc,It probably is spin, and odd to be mentioned now... I'm wondering if its a way of getting the Home Office to deal with the rogatory letters faster or to get the suspected persons back to Portugal...

“In the McCann investigation, considering the obstacles which were create to us in the United Kingdom, the best tactics would have been to continue the investigation without stating that the parents were suspect”

Hiya Sue - it has been good today - I am sitting here and people are feeding me some good stuff - and then we can have a look at it - will have a read then come back

Cheers! Viv x

Maddie: Police conducting a battle between David and Goliath "In the survey McCann, given the obstacles that have been created in the United Kingdom, the better tactic would have been to continue the investigation without know that the parents are suspects," said a source from the Judicial Police about statements of their National Director, adding "that at the moment the investigation has become a battle between David and Goliath."

The National Director of the Judicial Police (PJ), Alípio Ribeiro, considered yesterday that he had ay "haste" in the constitution of Kate and Gerry McCann as arguidos trial in the disappearance of their daughter. Alipio Ribeiro also confirms the right direction followed by the investigators that this is an investigation and we must be patient.

The statements by the Director of the PJ were made during the recording of the "Diga Lá Excelence" Radio Renascença which will be forwarded tomorrow afternoon, where he is questioned by journalists and Paula Paiva Celso Torres.

Police asked "act humanely"

(Updated) Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Gerry and Kate McCann, has responded rapidly to the statements by the National Director of the Judicial Police stating that the couple had "very well received comments from Alipio Ribeiro in which he accepts that police officers Portuguese under his authority had acted in haste in designating McCann as official suspects. " Clarence Mitchell goes further, and even before the full knowledge of the interview to Alipio Ribeiro, invited the Portuguese authorities to remove their status as arguidos, with "humanity"

The former director of the Unit of the Media Monitoring British, became head of public relations couple McCann, reacted via the website Find Madeleine, now with a new design. The site has adopted a careful look more and more pink, keeping the sale of bracelets and T-shirts but no longer the financial situation of the Fund Madeleine

Hope you are well glad to hear your son is on the mend and it was not anything to scary...

Still reading back over what I missed while I was out at the evil supermarket...

It is all so very sad and if they have done something and she was not abducted they have hired the wrong people to help them as every time CM opens his mouth I think he is trying to divert atention...

Justine McGuiness she is an odd one 50k for speaking for them??? If that is what she charges good for her getting work that pays so well... But did they need her??? There must have been lots of people conected to the Government or British police out there that could have spoken for them.

To hire someone who costs so much is strange I have never heard of anyone having a spokesperson when a child has gone missing.

I have never seen anythig like this in my life a child is missing and all the talk is about the parents???

There are so many different arguments...That's why I visit this and other blogs. Nobody really wants to comment, as there are too many inconsistencies reported in the press, and the scene was seemingly compromised. However DNA does not lie and neither do dogs hopefully the appropiate people will be questioned again.I have a science background, but thats all I'm saying at the moment.

I think, well the thing is, all he is doing is misconstruing remarks made - I mean it is a bit of a quantum leap for Ribeiro to say we made them arguidos too quickly to Claris's version - they should not have been made arguidos at all so release them now with humanity. Anyone looking at this with half a brain is not going to be fooled are they!

Ribeiro is going to proceed against these two no matter what Claris says - he might just as well shut up and stop his silly spin! I just cannot see any point to his strategy - do you? Will Sun/Mirror readers be fooled and dip into their Income Support? I dont think so!

Since the Home Office delayed paperwork of mine for nine months I believe they would delay time if they could.They might be under a lot of pressure due to the spin and powerful people behing the McCann spin machine. From what I hear the PJ are quite frustrated with them.I have to go now, but have a good night everyone.

Here is a full translation of the article this morning on the SOS Madeleine blog about Alipio Ribeiro's comments. Does it sound to you like he's throwing in the towel? OF COURSE NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (How desperate are we when we are reduced to relying on Beachy's schoolgirl French for news? Well, desperate times call for desperate measures! :lol: :lol: :lol: )

"In the McCann inquiry GIVEN THE OBSTACLES THAT HAVE BEEN CREATED IN THE UNITED KIMGDOM, the better tactic would have been to continue the investigation without naming the parents as arguidos," said a source from the PJ about statements of their National Director, adding that "at the moment the investigation has become a battle between David and Goliath."

The National Director of the Judicial Police (PJ), Alípio Ribeiro, considered yesterday that there had been "haste" in constituting Kate and Gerry McCann as arguidos in the disappearance of their daughter. ALIPIO RIBEIRO ALSO CONFIRMS THAT THE RIGHT DIRECTION IS BEING FOLLOWED BY THE INVESTIGATORS AND THAT THIS IS AN INVESTIGATION AND WE MUST BE PATIENT.

The statements by the Director of the PJ were made during the recording of the "Diga Lá Excelence" programme on Radio Renascença which will be broadcast tomorrow afternoon, in which he is questioned by journalists and Paula Paiva Celso Torres.

(Updated) Clarence Mitchell, spokesman for Gerry and Kate McCann, responded rapidly to the statements by the National Director of the Judicial Police stating that the couple had "very well received comments from Alipio Ribeiro in which he accepts that Portuguese police officers Portuguese under his authority had acted in haste in designating the McCanns as official suspects." [NOTE: RIBEIRO SAID NO SUCH THING. READ THE TRANSLATION ABOVE.] Clarence Mitchell went further, and even before full knowledge of Alipio Ribeiro's interview, invited the Portuguese authorities to remove their status as arguidos, with "humanity."

The former director of the British Media Minitoring Unit, who became head of public relations for the McCann couple, responded via the Find Madeleine web site, which now has a new design. The site has adopted a more low-key look and more pink, maintaining the sale of bracelets and T-shirts but no longer [reporting] the financial situation of the Madeleine Fund.

I should love to tell you what I think of Clarence Mitchell for twisting Ribeiro's statements, but I am positive I would get sued for it. Suffice it to say what I have said once before: This is not the time for niceties. THIS IS THE TIME FOR HELLFIRE AND DAMNATION!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Keep bumping Lillybee's thread, "The Hard Work of the Portuguese Police," so anyone who reads this forum will know what we here think of the PJ.

Too bad you had to divert to the supermercredo! Yes it is great news about my little one - thanks! Well, I mean he is the youngest~

The trouble is Claris is just a slippery slime ball - how popular are estate agents or politicians or anyone of that ilk? It is like he is on a race track the tyres are blown but he just does not have the sense to go into the pits. He is going to carry on enjoying the limelight confident in his ability to twist and deceive - regardless of the feedback he gets - just as disordered as the man he works for..although paid by another!

These spin doctors do not represent Madeleine do they, nothing will bring her back and no one is fooled - it is shameful Justiice just takes the public's money and neither of them have any shame in what they do. If they were decent human beings they could not, in all conscience continue to be mouthpieces for the gruesome twosome.

Well I guess he has the publicity he wants and it makes no odd's to him if they are inocent or guilty he will be writing his book and will adapt it to suit whatever ending there is to this tragic story.

I think the government were mad to let him go the way he spins they will need him if it is proved there was a cover up...

Who the hell is Huge? Where does he post?. I'm saying 'he' because of the name.I'm a 'she' by the way and I have two small kids of similar age to M, thats why this case affects me quite a bit. If its just another poster I feel slightly better as I felt before that you were saying that I had a huge... and was quite upset! I cannot answer for him/it. Regarding Sue's post, isn't it typical!

ALIPIO RIBEIRO ALSO CONFIRMS THAT THE RIGHT DIRECTION IS BEING FOLLOWED BY THE INVESTIGATORS AND THAT THIS IS AN INVESTIGATION AND WE MUST BE PATIENT.

So, the newsytle find Maddie site is a propaganda sounding board for use by their spin doctor - oh dear they just go from bad to seriously bad dont they.

Dont worry about saying what you think of Claris on here darling - I already invited him to sue me - I am confident this is fair comment and sound investigative journalism and I even got some journalists here just to prove the point!

Luv Viv xxx and thanks for your keen research - we just need Dr Val to pop in again now bless her!

Well that was thick of me - I could not for the life of me see where Claris was going to earn a future living from but of course guilty or innocent it matters not - people will be clammering for the book! What a tosser!

I can understand the government giving him a quick push and bet he did not even get chance to clear his desk. There is nothing subtle about Claris is there and Gordon would have quickly sussed him as a real liability I think. He never lasts anywhere really - the BBC suddenly pushed..

Will have to go in a min - apparently my eldest son is on his way with a couple of mates one of whom he warns can be quite loud but is very good at plastering and so on.. so I think I will be able to tolerate cuz I have a few jobs need doing.

Portugal's top policeman has said detectives were "hasty" in making Madeleine McCann's parents suspects in her disappearance.

He did NOT say that the decision was incorrect.

He did NOT say that the McCanns were in the clear.

He did NOT say that the lifting of the arguido status was anywhere even remotely on the cards in the immediate future.

He did NOT say that his detectives acted wrongly in any way, shape or form.

But of course, Ludicrous immediately spins this one small remark into a Big Deal, that the McCanns should be cleared, their reputations restored, and further millions of Euros of Portuguese and British taxpayers money tio be spent on hunting down imaginary paedophile rings and fantasy child snatchers.

Just shows how desparate the McCann Camp are becoming in my view.

And this Big News is obviously so important that it is not even on the DX's main index page....

Claris must be back in favour with the DE or are we back to the usual strict rotation scheme one for the pros one for the antis ummm maybe not because they got rid of nearly all the antis didnt they - must feel sorry for poor Kate and Gerry - they are going to treat Madeleine with humanity not her " Mom and Dad".

Madeleine: Portugal police say decision to make McCanns suspects was too 'hasty'Last updated at 17:34pm on 2nd February 2008 IThe national director of the Policia Judiciaria said there was a 'certain hastiness' in making the McCanns suspectsPortugal's top policeman has said detectives were "hasty" in making Madeleine McCann's parents suspects in her disappearance.___________________________________

Is this what Docmac was so upset about that he had to have an early night?

I am sorry, it’s probably of the topic, but justice very often comes late of never.Does the name Victor Lidio Jara Martínez (or Victor Hara) say something to you? Says a lot to me.Yet the same lawyers saved Pinochet and the same country harbored him.And at the time of crime no one in the west did conceder it a crime. The spin was on.

Honestly, I do not see the difference between mederer and regime that supports him; or criminal and people that support it.That is Clarence I mean and Rosi and HugeA and co.

Is not it a revelation? Viv your post quote:"In the survey McCann, given the obstacles that have been created in the United Kingdom, the better tactic would have been to continue the investigation without know that the parents are suspects,"

Exactly, if PJ would know in advance that UK authorities will be ruthless enough to interfere in murder investigation, they would not declare parents arguido (to be generous to suspects and give them some rights), but continue in secret and avoid UK gov plot.

It is sad!! I had a hope that conspiracy was not that serious as it appeared to be.Well it is now to the UK citizens (including honest people in police and gov) to fight for justice.PJ god help you, UK is a master in avoiding the justice when foreign countries are concern.

I think you will find that Docmac was upset the other night as he said he had news that Madeleine was no longer with us.

Although he IMHO would like to see justice for Madeleine I dont think the fact that the PJ were a bit hasty would upset him.

I cant speak for him but anyone who is a sick and twisted bastard who thinks scoring points for parents who could not forfill the basic duty of care towards their children cant wait to have a good laugh at all the antis who think they may be guilty and that the said antis would be disapointed if they are not guilty is a pathetic piece of dirt.

If some sick pervert took Madeleine I hope they are found and spend the rest of their days in jail and eternity in hell...

But Madeleine is missing probebky dead and if she was abducted her parents know deep inside that they let her down.

A THREE YEAR OLD LITTLE GIRL WHO WAS LEFT ALONE WITH TWO YEAR OLD SIBLINGS NIGHT AFTER NIGHT AND WHATEVER HAPPEND SHE PROBEBLY LOST HER LIFE BECAUSE OF IT.

I find this upseting that anyone can treat a child like an object that can be put out of the way when there is something better to do. I find it upseting that no one cares about her and I find it disturbing that people are so ready to say the neglect was no big deal get past it because unfortunatly Madeleine cant.

Viv you mentioned in some post that you would like to hear what people think about how Kate killed Madeleine (those who suspect that). I do suspect that Kate killed her violently in a fit of rage and frustration due to refusal of Madeleine to comply with parents wish to leave. She might resisted sedation, or had a tantrum not wanting to go to bed.Kate being on edge as Gerry wanted to go and did not care, as twins could be woken up, as constant hangover of drunken holidays, as tiredness of being responsible.Her speech pattern and behavior shown after the fact to me indicate serious mental problems as well.Anyway I am convinced it was violent attack, not sleeping pill accident.

The blood in apartment and the cries heard by the neighbor and Madeleine character, not counting more disturbing forensics reported - for me is an indication.Plus apparent aggressiveness of both parents showed afterwards.

Alert: LGC Detective Agency.Your mission: find my son, due at his sister's Confirmation tomorrow or find a lookalike to stand in for him.His description: 6'4", Caucasian, Dark blonde hair, a charming smile, and penniless, but optimistic; last seen in Camden, London, looking devilishly handsome, according to witnesses.No known contacts with Morocco, Spain, Portugal, Chile. Best search there first then.No charitable status, so best send him cash in brown envelopes - to placate his mother, and pay for Confirmation gift for sister.Thank you. I always entrust corporate fraud specialists with finding missing children, and paying parents. If it's good enough for the McCanns, it's good enough for me.P.S.Hi Viv, and all. I shouldn't be here, but couldn't resist a peek. See you soon. xoL3

Here is a fantastic post I found on the Joana Morais blog, which has been repeated on the Sky news blog. I think it sums up very well the hypothesis for the prosecution Viv. Sorry its a bit long.

01 Fevereiro, 2008The FarceBy Creepin (aka "Velma")

"It has been said by others that ‘we know nothing.’ I beg to differ.

We may not know the exact fate of Madeleine McCann, but the Policia Judiciaria compiled a dossier of evidence implicating the McCann’s in her disappearance which was submitted by the prosecutor to a judge. A root and branch review of the case by Paulo Rebelo has not changed the course of the investigation and Kate and Gerry are still the prime suspects. The PJ are not looking for a living child, but a corpse. Although many of the facts remain secret due to Portuguese legal procedure, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence which is in the public domain and most of it was revealed by the suspects themselves.

We know that these infants were left alone every night, a crime which the social services chose to overlook, despite the risk to the twins. In the immediate aftermath of their child’s disappearance, the parents did not join a search party, but went jogging/hairdressers/tennis, which is incomprehensible in the circumstances. Gerry had the presence of mind to write a daily blog on trivial matters. Alex Woolfall said initially they thought Madeleine had wandered off, but Kate and Gerry contradicted this by claiming they knew “straight away, she was taken” within a minuscule window of opportunity, by a predatory paedophile. “Cluck-whoosh!”

Kate admitted that after the twins were born Madeleine would “scream for attention” and she had a “sense of danger” but she was so “funny and engaging” that her mother believed she would give the creepy predator “her tuppence worth.” Kate washed all traces of her missing daughter from her favourite toy, Cuddle Cat. The child was heard crying “daddy” for hours by a neighbour. We know very little else about Madeleine, because her parents seldom mention her, preferring to discuss the antics of the twins.

We know Russell O’Brien was absent from the group for half an hour and according to waiters, Jane Tanner never left the Tapas Bar. Her description of the abductor she could not have seen has changed several times, resulting in innocent people being persecuted by the McCann’s henchman, a government spin doctor. The McCann’s compromised the local priest whom they later snubbed and the distressed Father Pacheco has since distanced himself from this ignoble couple.

They initiated a media circus and raised over a million pounds which has been squandered on a farce. Gerry was disappointed he could not use the fund to pay their legal fees. None of this money has been used to assist others with missing children. However, they paid their mortgage with these generous donations two months after Madeleine vanished. Two fund directors have resigned and been replaced by Jon Corner, Kate’s lifelong friend and Ed Smethurst. Brian Kennedy, is paying his fees and for Metodo 3’s fruitless search. They all have a ‘Common Purpose.’

Alleged sightings have not amounted to a hill of beans, but proposed book/film/TV deals amount to a substantial sum. Clarence Mitchell’s main role appears to be negotiating lucrative contracts to raise cash to find a child that the police are certain is dead. Two suspected child killers are now the hottest property on the chat-show circuit. Who says crime doesn’t pay?

Against police advice Gerry was willing to endanger his daughter’s safety by publicising her eye defect, because it was “a good marketing ploy.” Therefore, money making was always the priority over protecting his child. They enlisted instant support from Knights of the Empire and “called in favours.” Brown and Milliband have taken a personal interest in the case and the Home Secretary is impeding progress in the investigation by delaying crucial police interviews.

The most outlandish theories have been proposed by Team McCann and their agents. Madeleine is with drug dealers in the Rif Mountains, she was at a museum in Chile, she is a rich Saudi’s trophy, or she is with the Russian Mafia. When the focus returns to the Arguido’s, another absurd theory is suggested and confirmed by Brits who work in the health service or with close ties to the McCann’s. The suspects and witnesses held a clandestine meeting at a hotel room.

Gerry named his website after a book which deals with cold cases where the victim’s bodies remain undiscovered. This is already being described as a ‘cold case’ by the media, when the investigation is ongoing and far from complete. Statistically it is more likely Madeleine was killed by her parents than kidnapped, as Gerry confessed, this would be a hundred million to one chance, whereas the majority of untimely child deaths occur at the hands of a family member. We do not know what happened to Madeleine, but the Portuguese authorities are convinced she died at the Ocean Club and the cadaver dog’s reaction and DNA obtained from the scene are indicative of that.

My son has gone out now so I am back and just had a look at the latest DE forum. I do not know where Rosie is tonight but thought you would be interested in her understudy's approach to a serious question from a poster: (have they given up any serious attempt to coherently argue their case?)

BESTREST 02.02.08, 9:29pm

Yeahhhhhhhhhh right.

• Posted by: mum21 • Report Comment MUM 2102.02.08, 9:27pm

I have a feeling there is a criminal enquiry being made into this. I also understand many donors to the fund have requested an enquiry or their money back but have been ignored.

• Posted by: bestrest • Report Comment BESTREST 02.02.08, 9:25pm

In my opinion the only people entitled to request an enquiry into the way the money is being spent.....is the people who donated to it.And something tells me you are not one of them. But of course I could be wrong

"FundMadeleine’s fund is a non charitable not-for-profit company, which has been established to help find Madeleine McCann and to support her family and bring her abductors to justice. Any surplus funds will be used to help families and missing children in the United Kingdom, Portugal and elsewhere in similar circumstances. If there are surplus funds Madeleine’s Funds can be converted into a charity"

Clarence Mitchell has repeatedly stated the fund will run out by June. What surplus funds will there be to help any other missing child or their family? Is it true that £50,000 per month is going from the fund to Metodo 3 given the new webpage also states their financial backer is funding this. Should there be an enquiry into what is happening to these funds, donated by the public when it was believed Madeleine had been abducted?

Bestrest became my favourite new poster the moment she appeared on the DE forum. She knows exactly what she is doing, and why. Sometimes, free speech needs a guardian angel :-)The UK Charity Commissioners are unhappy about any organisation which seeks to suggest that it is a charity when it is not. This is fraud.Personally, I have no doubt that wrongdoers will be brought to account in the case of missing Maddie, in every sense.

HELLO ATARDI, by the way. Sorry we've been like 'ships that pass in the night'. As you can see, I still bang on the same old drum: Justice for Maddie, however long it takes.

I won't be here much; shouldn't be here now. See you sometime.GOEDENAVOND, ATARDI.

...Oh! Goodness me! What are you doing there? Family function tomorrow? Why don't you sit down and have a little drink with me and tell me all about it...

Erm...Anonymous!! There you are! No, 'fraid there's no sign of him. But I'm sure he's in safe hands. :)

Tell you what, I do happen to know someone who can stand in for him in the unlikely event he doesn't make an appearance - how about someone two feet tall wearing a penguin suit who has a colouful disposition? (Oh, alright then, a big orange beak). Yours for only fifteen boxes of fish an hour??

Your son sounds positively gorgeous and somehow I could even imagine someone may be persuaded to send him cash stuffed in brown envelopes. Failing that perhaps he could get an MP benefactor who could fund him on "staff expenses":-) for doing very little - in fact he could pop off and do a degree at the same time!

Hi Viv and Felicity,I'm sure my son would love to hear your high opinion of him, and I see you get the joke about LGC Detective Agency. LGC is such fun, and makes her points seriously as well. A true friend of Madeleine, yes? Just as this site is. The 'Urban Peacock' last seen in Camden has appeared with promises of hugs, kisses and gifts for his lil sis, bless 'im. Boys! Doh. They live in their own time, don't they? I have a feeling my future daughter-in-law is going to need massive support, and the patience of a saint.

BTW, did you notice the bitter new poster above here? The one taking the p*** out of LGCs name? Trolls are so stupid; lacking both intelligence and good humour. Hi Clarry. Wassup? Upset about the whole Fund thing? The whole neglect issue and other charges arriving despite your sorry efforts? Shame. Poor you. Nah. Just kiddin'. See you in court.Ta ra Viv, Felicity and all. Have a great weekend. Justice for Madeleine is coming. xo L3

Yes hope - my top tip - put two together and you have something just every bit as good as a two ring electric fire and at a fraction of the cost and a much nicer smell than burnt dust - the hippies know best!

Well do take care dear that would warm you even more than my two ring top tip - set your caravan on fire is going a bit far in the name of warmth! But hey just be chilled and they go bunk in someone else's: peace and love hmmm I am thinking of LGC's son - quite distracted me from my fiancee Mr Clooney so he is rich but..

LGC I believe OPUS may sometimes cause you to be a little flippant thus ripping the p*ss out of certain amoeba that inhabit the DE.. trying to pretend they have a little more than a cell to thrash around, but do manage to grunt te he he when all faculties fail them under somewhat merciless attack from the best of the internet.

Hi Viv & friends,I spotted this on another forum.Should we be concerned?Rogatory Letters to be sent to David Milliband at the Foreign Office. He was the one assisting the Mc's at the beginning,He would obviously see all the evidence and questions to be asked.How safe is this Viv.

Will buy some in the morning and see if I can get my hair cut the same as the woman in the advert (I can remeber the song you have to sing)...

Cant think who said it but there was a show years ago (could have been Have I Got News For You) and they were taking the micky out of the woman in the advert saying her kids were bullied at school and called the shake and vacies and no one wanted to talk to them as their mum would colect them from school singing...

We have all been a bit confused as to who was going to deal with the rogatory letters. I had thought the Home Office ..Tylersmum thought the new Ministry for Justice - which is responsible for criminal law and sentencing, prisons etc. but the government seem to be insisting this is a matter for the Foreign Office and I can see that in this instance that might be right. David Millaband is the Minister at the Foreign Office so he would therefore be dealing with it. I do not think it is a problem that he will see all the questions that have been drafted because that would not mean he can alter them - he will have to forward them to the police. That is what I think anyway but I might be wrong.

I don't know if you will get this. I'm skimming along at around 10500 metres, about 90 minutes from Dakar. Getting nervous about landing now but the flight has been pretty restful so far. I got upgraded from business to first which is fantastic. I have never flown this class before and would never pay for it myself, but what a luxury. I've only just discovered I can surf the net (connection through Nigeria) from up here, though I can't get e-mail for some reason. When we start descending the connection will be turned off.

Hi L3, glad to see you are still around en goedenavond Atardi as jy daar is. LGC you are one funny lady, you almost make me forget my fear of flying. Hello Hope4, Rat, Irina and Opus too.

22.45 GMTP..P..P..pick up a penguin b4 herrings become an endangered species.Thanks LGC; generous as ever.

DOLORES: Hi. Yes, I think we should all have hawk eyes over the laborious process of getting Justice for Madeleine, every step of the way. Just look at the shenanigans that have gone on whilst wrongdoers thought the trusting public were innocently taking things at face value.

I'm sure Viv's opinion will be insightful, as usual. Personally, I think anyone with a pen, a pencil or an email account should write to the UK Justice Minister Jack Straw, and their local M.P., just to get this issue up on the radar as a matter of serious concern to voters, taxpayers, the kind of people these overpaid politicians should realise pay their wages. Time for them to deliver Justice for Madeleine, and prove their initial preferential aid for the McCanns was the mere innocent error that they try to imply it was. It wasn't, but there's time for them to get it right this time; assist legal inquiry, unconditionally and without bias; the old pals' act of favours for friends, in my opinion.

Interesting how this political dimension has come to the fore now, don't you think Dolores? We two were eccentrics when we first mentioned it on the DE.See you sometime. Leigh3

Tee hee hee LGC - when I was at school there was something a little simpler than GCSEs ..CSEs would that be a little less taxing for him what with his yes minister responsibilities trying to understand what the heck his civil servants are talking about and reading what they flash under his nose to sign...poor chap. What a strain. Then he will have briefings from those frightening upthemselves Whitehall lawyers and having to look like he knows what they mean ..immense strain with all that swatting to do..

Hiya Dolores, I found this on the SOS Madeleine Blog, posted by Joana from Germany.

"The letters requiring the urgent interrogation of the group of friends of McCann, sent by the Judicial police of the United Kingdom, were refused and turned over by the Ministry for the British Interior (Home Office).

“The rogatory letters were sent by the Ministry Public via Eurojust in order to be carried out”, confirm officially the services of the Attorney General of the Republic in Portugal, adding that “the English authorities will have raised interrogations in connection with the use of Eurojust, reason for which the letters will be returned through the legal cooperation”.

The services of the Prosecutor were obliged to clarify the situation following the publication of information affirming that the rogatory letters are still in Portugal. These documents are considered by the Judicial police as essential to advance the resolution of the mystery which surrounds disappearance of Madeleine McCann.

“The rogatory letters are well in the services of Jacqui Smith, but they were not accepted like such”, confirms a source of the Ministry for the Interior (Home Office), stressing that “the business became delicate and the government of Gordon Brown with difficulty will be able to agree to carry out all the requests of the Portuguese police force”."

Doc!Fear of flying? You? Don't believe it. Wishing you a happy descent, and great hol. My girl is in S.A. in Feb.,staying with diplomats...now that is scary!News from here: mainstream Press are blanking McCann story on front pages. Clarry, poacher turned gamekeeper, is running scared.See you soon. We expect stories of wildlife. By the way, they are not wild...they are furious! They've not been invited to the catwalk for this week's Spring/Summer fashion shows ...L3. See you soon.

Leigh3 I am so delighted to hear from you,I not posted on DE for the last week or so. It's cosier here,I remember when we first mentioned our concerns for Justice for Madeleine If I remember when we did we got the cold shoulder on it.Now it seems we we correct in our concerns. My concern with David Milliband is his association with the Mc's and how cose is it would he dare pass anything on. Maybe I am just to suspicious now.

xxx

Docmac, don't worry about the flight, it's safer than being on DE forum.Happy Holiday xxx

How fantastic to hear from you - LGC is a naughty lady isnt she - and bringing out my more flippant side too- it has been a great thread on here tonight and sometimes we have even been serious - lovely posters here - some of my top faves and then you drop in as well and that was a special treat,

Now STOP BEING FRIGHTENED I told you it is great fun - just like one very expensive fair ride, Will it be daylight when you are landing. As you are in first class hog the window and check out the fantastic scenery as you are coming down - it is terribly exciting to do this and you will be so fascinated you will not be afraid. Fantastic to hear from you and hope you get this so that you will be fine for the landing!

I saw that. If she uses common sense she will be fine and will have a fantastic time, I assure you. Especially if she is coming to the Cape. She may even convince you to emigrate like my parents did, lol! The wildlife stuff only starts next Friday, before then it's business and work.

Why didn't you say about your fear of flying - I always swear by half a pint of gin and three litres of wine before boarding (and you think I'm joking...)

Bet you have a lot of Earth in your astrological chart. :)

I once went out with a pilot who, apart from talking about himself all evening ("That's enough about me, tell me, LGC, what do you think of me?") allayed my fear of flying to the extent that the very next week I flew to California without so much as a pint of gin or a hefty swig of Rescue Remedy.

Plainly, you should have gone out with this guy last week (ZZZZzzzzzzz).

Wishing you a fab holiday! (If you happen upon any penguins, btw, would you kindly take a picture of them and forward them to Opus? He's awfully keen on things like that).

Viv, it will be half past midnight in Dakar when (if) we land in this thing. Did you know they've got double beds in first now? Oh yes they do, just got nobody to share it with. What a shame. You have to do this once in your lifetime.

23.15GMTDolores of the pink rose...Nice to see you too, and I agree that we cannot simply trust the politicians at face value now when it comes to the case of poor little Madeleine Beth McCann. There are too many adults making money or making fame for themselves over the body of this little mite, poor thing.Twas ever thus. Dickens was so right about the plight of children when adults assume absolute control without pity or compassion for the powerless.Fortunately, civilisation has moved on somewhat. We now have adults who do care for children, even strangers' children, children they've never met.Dolores, for whatever reason, you do anticipate the next turn of events. Trust your instinct, I hope. Power brokers can plot known ploys; it's the 'wild card' of instinct from unexpected corners that unmasks them, in the end :-)Personally, I like the new DE poster bestrest. She's focused, and wise, imho. Just google her name, daily express, and see her homepage if you want to avoid the usual DE swill and nastiness. V interesting, she is. See you next time. I can't post much for a while, although I shouldn't even be here now! xo Leigh

Hi all, I have spent a very happy hour reading through all of your posts. The Opus ones really made me laugh and LCGs reminder of Rosies' post that M3 are SAS trained and peadophiles are frauds.... classic! I haven't got a lot to say regarding the case at the moment, a question pops up now and then but I am always reading and taking it all in and having a few laughs along the way. The subject of this forum is never forgotten but humour is needed at times.

Doc - Happy landing and happy holidays. Hope you have a great time!

Viv - pleased all is well with your son. What a relief for you both, is he out on the town tonight?

LGC - When this is all over can we all have a night out and come and see you do your stand up?

Well yes you are right I do have to do that once in a lifetime so next time they send you let me know and I will come with you and I will be by the window so you dont have to look OK ? Shhh dont tell. What do you mean IF it lands! You silly billy - you are normally such a confident positive chap. Anyway wishing I was there having a pint with you...I would love to see all those lovely animals too in their natural habitat and sleep in that lovely chalet up in the trees - it all sounds so fantastic - shame you have to do some boring old work first. What do you think about stupid Claris then saying Ribeiro should release them as arguidos just because he said they were made arguidos a bit hastily! Talk about wishful thinking ! Actually I dont suppose he cares less - like Dolores, I think it was pointed out he is going to make a mint on the book anyway and probably would make more still if they are found to be guilty! He is not really anyone's special friend is he and I just dont like him.

Have you got people to chat to or are you in a private cell? Could ask one of the trolley dollies to come and lie down with you because you are a bit nervy! Gosh that was shockingly sexist I will pay for that wicked remark:-)

Thank you, Docmac. I'll show her your kind post. As for double beds in first class: drink bromide, says Nurse Leigh, an entirely unqualified source of medical advice. I hear it worked for the troops in past wars...dunno if it works on modern men...Leigh

LGC, we have a colony of penguins right back at home in Cape Town living on the mainland. We swim alongside them on a regular basis. The colony runs into the thousands now. It is one of only three land-based colonies in Africa. They smell to high heaven, but it's not herring. They are much better fed there lololol! Google 'boulders beach cape town penguins' and I'm sure you'll find some great pictures.

Pretty amazing getting Doc from his first class cabin eh! It all happens on here - we even have a resident flipping penguin sticking his beak in - amazing stuff.

Thanks for your kind thoughts about my son - he is not on the razzle as it goes - he has spent his dosh for this weekend on a new wireless router for the computer - what a geek eh and he's been playing with it ever since - boys and their toys -eldest one came up earlier to have a mess. I wonder what I did to make them like this. I did used to let them go and sit on the shed roof with an old telly or something and a screwdriver I wonder if that was it?

Luv Viv xxx and great to hear from you.

PS You dont need a serious comment to join in here !!! We remember to have fun sometimes as well as our serious cause. That is important!

Thanks for the bromide advice, Leigh. I think we have moved on a little bit since :-). At this stage I'll take whatever Old Hippy is on. LGC I'm not Jane flipping gin and tonic you know. I could never keep up with her. Apparently we're ahead of schedule and will start descending soon, so if I lose this connection I wish you all well till next time. HEEEEEELLLLLPPP!

Viv, I have read some of bestrests posts and she is firmly putting the 'rat pack' back down to earth with a bump, as they were getting quite hyper and gloating at the 'anti's'by Cm's little 'twister' tonight,and taking it to mean the arguido status would be dropped.Try and read some of the rantings of the leader of the pack.Silly old bat.

Hi Viv, poor Doc he is probably descending as I type! I envy him though, at times I wish it could me on a plane flying out of here!Whatever you did to your sons I am sure you did the right thing, at least you know they are not out there playing with guns!!!

And thank you, I know I am welcome here whenever I want to come and I really do enjoy reading your blog.

I have been busy here tonight trying to maintain order and decorum and failing - when they have all quietened down and popped off to bed I will pop over to the DE and have a look at the ratpack (no offence RATONTHEBEAM)

I dont know where OPUS bunks down but LGC does seem to really love him and even serves him champagne so the mind boggles! Who is the silly old bat - when I looked earlier on it was mum21 going arrhhh and te he which was pretty impressive stuff I can tell you!

Goodness! Didn't realise! We've just watched Youtube and Opus immediately spotted his dear departed Uncle Morty who everyone thought had emigrated to Cricklewood. Well I never!

Don't worry about landing. I used to be terrified, but my pilot friend - who, incidentally, was South African and who originally flew cargo planes over the African Continent before coming to the UK to gain his commercial licence - completely put me at ease. He'd had some incidents in years and years of flying, but NEVER any which put his cargo (or passengers) into danger.

I asked him if there was anything which truly scared him, and he told me that it was only (now being a Virgin Airlines long-haul captain)the thought of having to put down in the Arctic Circle (one of his routes was to California, and they go north because of the curvature of the Earth) because the back-up services there are virtually non-existent.

See what I'm saying? Even if he had to put down, there was an assumption that they would NEED back-up services! They would be alive! Hurrah!

Did the trick for me, anyway.

Thanks for the penguin link. Guess what we'll be watching now for the rest of the weekend?

00.00 GMTHi all,Check it out: the newcomer bestrest is the guardian of free speech, and I know what I see in her posts, and what she is doing. See if you see the same thing too.Bestrest appeared when posters were most despondent about investigative journalism, by the way. That's interesting.Editors do strategy. Journalists do tactics. Both need to serve their readers, especially when free speech is seriously bludgeoned.McCann Machine of media manipulators? This 'game' as their amateurs call it on the DE is tougher than they could ever imagine. IMHO, they will lose, in time.

Night night Viv the fearless, and everyone. Justice for Maddie. May it be so, in time.xo

DOCMAC. Lie back and think of England! That's another old century cure, courtesy of unqualified Nurse Leigh.Ta ra, Friends of Madeleine, and every missing or abused child who deserves a voice. L3

DOC DONT KNOW WHETHER YOU WILL GET THIS BUT I JUST SNEAKED OVER TO THE DE FOR THE CURRENT POSITION WHICH IS THAT THE OLD BAT IS ER ROSIE -presumably it was considered MUM 21 te he etc was unsatisfactory. Rosie is resorting to her usual desperate tactic of employing her alter-ego HelenM to keep agreeing with her because well simply because no one else does!

ENJOY LUV VIV X

ROSIEPOPS03.02.08, 12:10am

I think you are a bit far behind. EU members do not need their passports to travel around to other EU countries anymore...did you not know this?

Lesley Moleseed's killer has just been jailed thirty years after he murdered her.

And he was convicted on DNA evidence.

• Posted by: Doppelganger • Report Comment HELEN03.02.08, 12:07am

How come you do not talk about what else he said, ROsiepops? The part DIRECTLY linked to the McCanns, about how it would have been easier to investigate them if they did not know they were suspects? And about how he believes in the current line of the investigation but that he believes patience will be needed but that the case will be solved???

....................................................................

How would it have been easier to investigate them? Needed more time? 4 months not long enough? The Mccann's must have known that the the attitude of the PJ had changed towards them, long before they were made arguidos. I think the fact that they had stopped looking for their daughter would have been clue enough, wouldn't you? Why were they allowed to leave Portugal if they had so much evidence against them? It would have been easy to have put restrictions on them. But NO the Portuguese authorities couldn't wait to get rid of them IMO.

• Posted by: HelenM • Report Comment

Perhaps if they did not know they were being investigated this entire circus would not have been mounted, perhaps people would have been more available to answer questions, and perhaps they would not have left the next day for the UK, making it unnecessary to have to rely on the UK police to interview witnesses.

• Posted by: alsabelIa • Report Comment HELENM03.02.08, 12:06am

Apparently before this story was published 24 Horas contacted CM's office to give him the opportunity to comment.

As CM was unavailable they also apparently E-mailed the office, but received no reply.

Can anyone tell me if the McCann's have sued 24 Horas for printing this story?

• Posted by: Doppelganger • Report Comment UIL03.02.08, 12:06am

A very good point you have made, they do seem to have one goal, to defend the Mccanns .I can only believe some have to be friends or relatives as they do not appear to be able to do anything but defend the Mccanns even when there is no defense as in the neglect issue , which they sweep aside saying they made a mistake, they are suffering.What about their daughter?, she suffered when the people who should have protected and cared for her let her down big time.She is the one who deserves people's sympathy not her selfish parents who left their children night after night and even now say they are responsible parents.

How come you do not talk about what else he said, ROsiepops? The part DIRECTLY linked to the McCanns, about how it would have been easier to investigate them if they did not know they were suspects? And about how he believes in the current line of the investigation but that he believes patience will be needed but that the case will be solved???

....................................................................

How would it have been easier to investigate them? Needed more time? 4 months not long enough? The Mccann's must have known that the the attitude of the PJ had changed towards them, long before they were made arguidos. I think the fact that they had stopped looking for their daughter would have been clue enough, wouldn't you? Why were they allowed to leave Portugal if they had so much evidence against them? It would have been easy to have put restrictions on them. But NO the Portuguese authorities couldn't wait to get rid of them IMO.

The Pj have not only had 4 months, it appeared that Goncalo Amaral suspected these parents from early on, despite what he told Sousa to say. So you could say that the PJ have actually had around 8 months in which to investigated these parents.

I have been around for a long time, taken a great interest in politicians and politics and i know a person back peddling when I see one and Alipio Ribeiro is furiously back peddling, trying his best to distance himself from this appalling shambolic mess these PJ officers have made of this investigation.

Not only were the McCann's allowed to leave Portugal, they were placed on the lowest arguido status possible which would allow them to leave. Even so if the Portuguese authorities had not wanted them to leave Portugal they could have still prevented them from doing so, they could have taken their passports off of them, they didn't, they virtually rubber stamped them and I believe I read somewhere that they even gave them a police escort to the airport!

Oligario Sousa was pushed off of this investigation and he made his feelings known that he was not happy with the way the McCann's were being treated and then he was off, the official line was because they no longer required a police spokesperson! Again another way of getting rid of someone they thought was a loose cannon.

So what patience will be needed to solve this case?

Yes it will the public's patience, especially when they discover that the PJ have led people up the garden path.

00.16GMTOops! Please don't interpret my previous post as a defence of the DE. It isn't. However, I know what I see in bestrest's posts, and it is something that goes beyond any one publication. See y'all next time. Ta ra. Leigh3.

Goodnight all from Senegal. We landed safely and have to disembark now. It was a beautiful landing after a turbulence-free flight. LGC I am pleased you showed Opus the videos. Maybe he can come and visit his cousins sometime. The doors are open, it's 12.30 local time and it's bloody hot here. I'm going to make a bolt for the terminal in the hope that it's air-conditioned. See you all in a few days.

I hope you are still there. I have studied those pictures and will tell you honestly what I see. In the pony picture Kate's hand is clenched into a fist the tendons in the neck are tightened and the smile looks false particularly when taken together with the neck tension - this just does not happen when someone is genuinely relaxed and smiling. I have noted this same tension in her neck in pictures where she is most certainly not happy or smiling.

~Turning to the pics of Maddie when she is a baby. With Gerry I agree it is a lovely pic. Maddie is smiling and has her hand comfortably on him and is clearly inclined to him, comfortable and happy. Just the opposite in the pic with Kate. This is a pic like you dumped your baby on a stranger's lap with big funny glasses or something, the baby is scared, uncomfortable and wants to get away. I entirely accept what you are saying.

Also Sue - Maddie is not laughing at mom as you would expect she might have been - she seems to be laughing at whoever took the pic - presumably Gerry. I also think about Mrs Fenn saying she was just crying Daddy, Daddy. I hope the police will be able to tell us the truth.

Hi Viv, The DE gets worse, so am off to bed now, what do you think of the Clarrie latest that Gerry and Kate were made Arguidos in haste as stated by Ribieiro, excuse spelling. I am wondering if this has as usual been misconstrued by Clarrie to try to saw people's opinion to believe in the Mccanns innocence. The other fear I have is our Government may have refused to allow the questioning and the Police have decided it is not worth continuing as they will never be allowed to bring them to justice. I hope that is not the case though.

00.45GMTGlad you're safe, Doc.Felicity, re: bestrest. Sorry, if my previous post was oblique, and am not sure this will be clearer.In 'bestrest' posts on the DE, I see the cool, calm hand of a professional.In the DE tonight, I see a dead forum; killed by its own hand; all the tripe from trolls, troublemakers, sycophants, and amateurs, playing at the 'new media'.Hey ho. Children enjoyed a new sandpit. Take a look at the dates and times on the DE forum. Not much going on there. A dead forum.Smart posters have gone elsewhere; here, and elsewhere. The quiet before the storm to come - a perfect storm is coming in the best interests of missing Maddie, and other children who need adults to state clearly that it is unacceptable to neglect children. This is our law; our customs. It's a pity that our world needs to learn this lesson over and over again, and in this case, over the body of one dead girl called Madeleine Beth McCann.I took a quick look at the DE forum just now. Drivel. All drivel. Except for Kodiak from Canada, and my woman of the year on the DE forum: ANNR. Portuguese posters like Alsabella are interesting, but self-interested. ANNR has one issue: 'Madeleine, and every missing or abused child.'Ta ra.

Hi Viv, I don't entirely agree with the analysis of the photo with Kate with baby Maddie. Kate looks really happy and Madeleine just looks like she wants to escape and I don't mean that in a sinister way. You know the age, they are just mobile and want to be anywhere rather than where they are! I have few photos of like that with my children when they were small. When I look at those photos I think I was thinking "you will let me cuddle you" while my baby was thinking "no way mummy, I'm off!" I hope this makes sense!

Oops. And finally...I guess we can all see that the neglect issue is useful for wrongdoers in the case of missing Maddie. There is no evidence of abduction, except from the McCanns, supported by their 'silent' holiday friends, and vociferous supporters in the UK.

'Absence of evidence is no evidence of absence,' as the old saying goes, but the PJ and others do have evidence of all kinds, not just DNA.

No amount of speculating among the pro or anti McCanns will alter that. Hey ho. The public will HYS anyway.

Viv, yes, spot on!! I'd always liked the one with Gerry & Madeleine, so natural, but hadn't noticed the pony one until this evening. It definitely helps to go over old ground.

Anyway, I've brught something over from the 3As before I log off for the night. This may help people sleep a little easier... ;-)

--

'Well, just watched the interview on RTP2, here's what I got from it:

As I expected, the interview included several topics, and Madeleine’s case was #4.

Ribeiro was asked how shaken was the PJ because of this case?Not shaken at all. This is a big, complex case. The media exposition was beyond expectations [remember guys, we’re not used to this, it is not the norm here!]. But they put the best men on the case, they have a multi-task team, and police work is one of patience.

Was there difference in treatment to the McCanns compared to other missing children case?No. It is a difficult case that, although in Portugal, in a non-Portuguese context.

Were there political pressure?Evidently not.

What did you talk about with the English Ambassador?They spoke several times, no secret about that, and the Ambassador offered the help of the British Police if necessary.

What about the lack of witnesses and evidence or traces? Would that explain the mistakes mentioned by others? Not having sealed the crime scene, for example?Rebelo minimised those criticisms, saying that the British Police had not criticised him and that is what matters to him / the PJ.

What about Amaral? Was that not a response to critics?The reasons for taking him off the case were obvious. It was because of the statements to the press.

Was there haste in making the McCanns arguidos?At this moment, with hindsight, and the experience he has as a magistrate, Ribeiro said that they could have made a different assessment. So yes, it was perhaps hasty.

And then they moved on to another topic. No mention of the removal of their arguido status as you can see. No statement on changing the line of investigation. Nada.'

Hiya Lizzie Ribeiro is simply saying it may have been a bit hasty making them arguidos when they did and it might have been better to wait until further in the investigation - he is stressing the investigation proceeds in the right direction - clearly not implying the McCanns are innocent or to be released from their arguido status. One or the other of them killed Maddie and the other is covering - that is positively dreadful and has landed them in far more trouble still. Clarrie has quite deliberately misinterpreted his remarks reaffirming the dogma - they are innocent and should now be released ..stop the damage to their reputation..treat them with humanity. Not a word for poor little Maddie - she is dead but Kate and Gerry must be treated with humanity. They will be treated fairly, they will not be physically harmed or tortured but they will be brought to justice for what they have done, in accordance with the law. Children have the right to life and the right to a decent life. I will always fight for that. Children need strong adults to protect them. We must be strong and continue to insist the government deal with this appropriately and bring these two to justice. Nothing, nothing, must stand in the way of that. A clear signal needs to be sent out to other parents - you do this and see what happens to you. That way other little children may be protected from the ultimate act of violence from their parents.

Hiya LMCG - I think I just need to acknowledge that maybe I got too one-sided here and was pinning the blame on Gerry when in reality there are always two ways to look at what we see as the photograph demonstrates. It is the same with Gerry's behaviour really and the bruises on Kate - maybe he did that to get Kate off Maddie or because of what she had done to Maddie - then no one would blame him. Maybe he shows such anger and aggression because of the immense strain he is under trying to protect his wife. How can we say with any degree of certainty? What I am certain of is they are both to blame - they are lying and we need the police and the courts to fairly resolve this situation and apportion blame and punishment fairly and where it belongs. If the original suggestion of the PJ is correct - that it was Kate who harmed Maddie and Kate has mental health problems she would have been dealt with sympathetically. They have blown that now with this whole fiasco, Gerry has sought to cash in which is extremely wicked - they both deserve to be punished far more still for their further dreadful behaviour ever since that dreadful night when they decided to mount a coverup and dispose of her little body. That is very, very wicked.

Thanks very much for that Sue. I believe it was very frank and honest - admitting criticism where it was due in the case of Goncalo Amaral speaking to the press. It is a comfort to know the investigation is in such safe, capable and honest hands.

I read in the independent this morning that it has made a difference and it is looking hopeful that they will have no recourse but to spare him. Thank whatever god for that. In the end more than 50,000 UK citizens signed it.

Cannot bear to think of another human being, raped of their freedom of thought, and penalised in such a barbaric way for showing a kindness, which as you quite rightly say, is not against the teaching of Islam or a blasphemous insult.

In any case, i don't agree with the death penalty. I don't think we have the right to take take a life, regradless of the cause.

It's been a long day & I'm off to bed as i'm sure you all are already there.

I do not approve of the death penalty either and it is of course unlawful in Europe as a breach of human rights - Article 2 and 3 if I recall the right to life and the right not to suffer inhumane or degrading punishment. I wonder what penalty he will suffer now?

The World would be a better place if it followed suit and treated all prisoners in a humane way. We cannot stop barbarity when the State practices it and sets such an example to its people.

Hi Viv, Thanks for your information, I hope that the papers are received soon and the requestioning is permitted by our Government.I think Clarence has jumped on this remark about them being ade Arguidos hastily and has then put his own spin on it. As you say it is not said that their status has or will be changed, but implied that the case is going in the right direction. I suppose we will have to be patient and wait for things to happen as is so easy to think the worst , that here will be a cover up, when hopefully that is not true.

What Did Happen to Madeleine McCann

Professor David Barclay, Prominent Forensic Investigator told Martin Brunt of Sky News:There are two options:1) She came to harm at the hands of friends or familyor2) She was taken by a passing paedophileHe went on.. both are really unlikely, but we know she is gone

THERE IS NO EVIDENCE AGAINST US, DID YOU HEAR THAT?

WHERE WERE YOU MUMMY/NASTY BLOGGERS

HOW TO POST

Click on one of date archive tabs to the right (the little diamond things) and a list of posts will come up under that date i.e. click 2011 then click July, then click on the post you want to read, this will put the post and all the comments on the main page. Then scroll to the bottom and click add a comment.

If the post is on the main page, just click on the heading and it will bring up comments under that post, again, just click add a comment at the bottom.

Don't have nightmares

THE MCCANNS TOOTHY AND DELIGHTED GRIN

AS THEY PROMOTE THEIR MONEY PEDDLING MADDIE BOOK JUNE 2011 NEVER TOO LATE FOR A GOOD CASHIN

From the Portuguese Police File - seen by a witness loitering with intent....

What a great e-fit Gerry

WHOOPS GERRY'S MASK SLIPPED

HE FOUND IT AGAIN..GERRY THE EVANGELIST

WITH A BEATIFIC GRIN OUTSIDE THE WHITEHOUSE SOFTLY HUMMING "WE'RE IN THE MONEY" C. July 2007 when dreams and fantasies were at their zenith

12.5.07 ECSTATIC ON MADDIES BIRTHDAY AS TENS OF THOUSANDS ROLL IN .... £260 PER HOUR

THE SAME DATE THE FUND WAS CREATED, YES MADDIE'S BIRTHDAY

.After a single dose of COCAINE there may be enlarged (dilated) pupils & pale cool skin...

and here is another one

a dead ringer for Gerry's mate Russell O'Brien, Missing from the table when Maddie went missing No wonder the McCanns wanted to release another load of e-fitups

Nanday enjoys wrecking my plant

but I love him!

LAST IMAGE OF MADELEINE ACCORDING TO KATE MCCANN TAKEN ON THE MORNING OF TUESDAY 1 MAY 2007

THAT NIGHT MADDIE WAS SOBBING PITIFULLY DADDY DADDY, TWO NIGHTS LATER THEY REPORT HER MISSINGTemperature at the time only about 17-20, so how come that "sunburn"? Is it fake suntan cream hiding bruising to her arm but they could not be bothered to do her legs. Notice the pure white hand, very odd! Even more odd, why feature the red dress picture, made up and aged about two and ignore this genuine last pic? This couple even lied and said she only answers to Madeleine when know she actually answers to Maddie. Who believes they actually want her to be "found"?

My view in Brief..and the best post to this blog IMO

Viv, regarding Mrs Fenn on the night Madeleine was crying for over an hour, which stopped when she heard the parents return. As we have said before, could someone have been leaving, but could someone have been leaving with Madeleine. Perhaps Madeleine was drugged, which would account for the crying to stop suddenly, and removed.

This blog does not pursue any agenda, I do not pretend to be Pro or Anti McCann and I most certainly do not sell books or ask anyone for cash, it is just my search for the truth the way I see it and an answer to all the lies and spin we have to endure on this case - often pure and deliberate rubbish that is written by many on blogs and forums to mask the truth brainswash people to believe the unbelievable and of course, cashin.

There is an overwhelming amount of evidence the McCanns were involved in the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, but there is no satisfactory evidence that confirms she died in the apartment. As the Portuguese Prosecutor has just pointed out, they could have been charged with kidnapping and trafficking Madeleine. Goncalo Amaral has behaved in an unconventional way for an ex police officer to expose Kate and Gerry McCann and there is no doubt that as parents, there is something incredibly unconventional about them!

People see what Gerry McCann wants them to see, but which cannot be proved against him, it is his mirage to feed his Fund. Maybe a few police officers, early to the case, also saw it his way. But what he, his friends and his wife really did will be their undoing.

Justice for Maddie, The Twins and all exploited and abused little children whether they are dead or alive.

Detailed procedures on how UK investigate Complex Child Abuse Cases

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SCARY HUH!

Too much pupil Gez...

ANOTHER LUDICROUS GAFF

It is true that we have requested a meeting with the prime minister to show him the strength of our case, to explain Kate and Gerry's innocence and yet all we've been offered is a medium-level-consular meeting, which we rejected.