Pics from shifa hospital in #Gaza for the explosive bullets used by Israeli snipers and the huge damage caused by shooting it directly to the body of unarmed Palestinian at the border during #GreatReturnMarch
These bullets are internationally prohibited for its permanent damage! pic.twitter.com/SVXPuehAOn

UPDATE: I consulted a number of munitions experts before publishing this post. None responded till after it was published. An anthropologist specializing in guerilla conflicts said he believed the bullets used in the massacre were high velocity munitions used normally to hit targets at long distances. When such bullets are used to hit targets at close range, the munitions have a highly explosive impact, causing the sorts of grievous injuries seen here. So even if the IDF didn’t use illegal weapons, it used bullets not meant for suppressing civil unrest. This caused severe injuries because they were inappropriate for the use made of them.

A trauma doctor treating the 750 severely injured Gazans in the Great March of Return massacre (17 were murdered and their suffering has ended, though their families will continue to suffer), offers evidence that the IDF used exploding bullets to maximize the damage done. The injuries are horrific. There’s a reason dum-dum bullets are illegal under international law. I usually make a point of refusing to display such images because they tend to be so incendiary and overwhelm the rational senses. But there are times when there images should and must be seen. This, I’m afraid is one of those times.

The IDF asserted that many protesters threw Molotov cocktails and rocks at its soldiers as well as opened fire on them…

As if, even if this were true, it would justify the murder of 17 protesters, when there were NO Israelis injured. Either those Palestinians who were supposedly firing at the IDF were terribly bad shots; or perhaps those shots were fired by Israeli mistarvim, infiltrators who blend into a crowd of protesters, then throw rocks at the army so that it is justified in commencing a violent suppression of the demonstration.

The army said that only “dozens” of Palestinians were hit by its fire, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Then it tried to claim that 10 of the dead were Palestinian “terrorists.” As if shooting an unarmed man to death is acceptable as long as you claim he is something worthy of killing. No evidence offered to substantiate the claim, by the way, except the names of various militant groups associated with each dead man, as they accompany him to the grave.

The IDF also put its social media campaign into high gear, posting two especially troubling, offensive tweets. In one, it posted that the army, like God, knew every Palestinian who’d been killed or wounded and could account for every bullet fired. Though this was meant as one of those omniscient, God’s eye statements supposed to reassure the world that the IDF was in control, and that it behaved reasonably and proportionately to the protest; the impact was just the opposite.

The tweet implied that the IDF snipers had deliberately targeted and shot down every one of the 17 dead and 750 wounded. It indicated that the army response was premeditated and the massacre was precisely what the IDF intended from the outset. Though this is of course the truth, it’s not a truth the IDF was prepared to admit to the world. So the tweet was deleted without explanation. But those of us who follow these things know the truth, whether the army wants to admit it or not.

Then there was this delightful bit of mendacity laced with a healthy dose of Islamophobia. Note that in the left panel the American posters protest civilly with the Statue of Liberty and Empire State Building gracing the background. This is polite protest-tourism. When in truth, many American protests are violent and angry. Remember that Malcolm said that “violence is as American as apple pie.” Though none lead to nearly 1,000 protesters either dead or permanently maimed. If American military or police units perpetrated such a travesty there would be hundreds of thousands in the streets and there would be hell to pay.

Note the right hand panel, which features the dangerous, violent Palestinians throwing Molotov cocktails and rocks. In the background, a mosque ominously looms. The message: that Islam incites hatred and violence against Israel. A bit of cheap Islamophobic incitement, itself. Imagine if a Palestinian or Muslim posted this panel and instead of protesters in front of a mosque, there were Jews wearing kipot throwing rocks and a synagogue loomed in the background. That image would be deleted faster than you can say: “Anti-Semitism.” Apparently, some forms of religious hate are more acceptable than others.

The NY Times apparently doesn’t believe that the Great March of Return deserves to be named as such in its pages since it tweets that the protest was “dubbed” with this name. You use such a word derisively when you question the motives of those who created the name. Not when you’re a serious journalistic enterprise reporting on a serious journalistic subject.

Note too that Israelis are sitting petrified in their homes expecting Palestinians to momentarily be flooding over the border to rip their property out from under them. Meanwhile, no mention of the thousands of Palestinians mourning the deaths and woundings of their own family members. Not a word of concern for their feelings or suffering.

Finally, where amidst this bloody mayhem was the U.S. ambassador to Israel? At the Kotel of course, where the settler idolaters he supports want to rip down the Haram al Sharif and replace it with the Third Temple. David Friedman was there to receive the priestly blessing and pray for the rebuilding of the Temple. Not too much consideration given, though, to how that Temple will impact the Muslims who also claim this spot as holy ground. But if Friedman did give it any though, he’d imagine a final triumphal Israeli victory over the Muslim forces of darkness. This is the vision of every settler and every Israeli ultra-nationalist. A Final Solution to the Palestinian problem.

You know as well as I that Friedman, Kushner, Greenblatt et al support the effort to rebuild the Temple. They’re not only Orthodox Jews, but supporters of an especially virulent form: Judean settlerism. A strain of Judaism which worships rocks and buildings more than it does the universalist ethical values of the Biblical prophets.

Israel’s Ambassador to Norway Left the Reservation

Norwegian activists alerted me to a shocking set of Facebook posts by the Israeli ambassador who railed at local citizens who besieged his Facebook page with criticism of the Israeli massacre. He was especially savage to one local pro-Palestine activist:

Though earlier in the thread he admits that he doesn’t speak Norwegian and Hansen’s posts were in Norwegian, he attacks her as an “anti-Semite.” Then he wields the coup de grace, smearing her by calling her a descendant of the Norwegian Nazi collaborator, Quisling. What supporting Palestinians under lethal fire has to do with being or supporting Nazis, is a historical analogy well above the ambassador’s pay grade.

He goes even further, saying that Norway is a “civilization that persecuted Jews for generations.” Them’s strong words. And completely false. The Nazis exterminated the Jews. There were very few Jews in Norway and any who perished died because the Nazis occupied the country and sealed their fate. Norway as a “civilization” was not responsible. In fact, there was a Norwegian resistance government based in London, which opposed the Nazis and their policies, including the extermination of Jews. But once again, the good ambassador can’t be bothered with historical niceties that spoil his invective.

In another post in this thread he blames the Norwegian activist for the murder of his parents at the hands of the Nazis. The problem is that his parents were German Jews, not Norwegian. And no Norwegian bears any responsibility for the deaths of German Jews. Oh my, what a cock-up this man has made of things.

Keep in mind that this is an ambassador whose job is to foster warm relations with the local populace. But here, he’s just called the entire Norwegian “civilization” Nazi collaborators who’ve hated Jews for centuries. I can’t see any way this man can represent Israeli interests in Norway. The national government should declare him persona non grata and send him packing. Maybe the next one taking his place can learn a few phrases in Norwegian, hire a good translator and a PR specialist to help him avoid such awful gaffes as Herr Schulz has made.

The history of Israeli ambassadors in Norway hasn’t been very auspicious lately. A few years ago, I wrote about the ambassador who tried to rape his housekeeper in the official residence. After she complained, he was sent packing after the story was published here and in Norway. There are so many similar stories of misbehaving Israeli diplomats which we’ve reported here, but that’s the subject for another post…

‘…but the organizers were vague about plans to cross the border, keeping a jittery Israel guessing.’

Uh huh. Think maybe the tents set up well inside the border might have furnished a clue?

Yep, the Israelis thought the Palestinians were about to attack — so they opened fire.

The mendacity is simply stunning. The kicker is that the New York Times regularly tries to get me to subscribe, claiming they ‘speak truth to power.’

What nonsense. They ARE the power, and they strive to obscure the truth, not express it. Israel has so completely corrupted so many American institutions. It’s seriously humiliating.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘… In fact, there was a Norwegian resistance government based in London, which opposed the Nazis and their policies, including the extermination of Jews. ‘

…and the resistance inside Norway was a vigorous one, and it smuggled a rather large proportion of Norway’s (small) Jewish population over the border to Sweden.

But there. This is all good. Do you want Israel defended by appealing, articulate spokesmen of the likes of Abba Eban and Golda Meir, or would you rather have thugs like this trying to obscure Israel’s crimes?

[comment deleted: I deleted this comment for one major comment rule violation and a second which was an even worse violation. First, the Holocaust was a gratuitous & off-topic issue here. Second, it seems, and other commenters have noted this, that you’ve introduced a tone of Holocaust denialism, which I find unacceptable.

I just read Elisabeth’s interpretation of your comment & it’s possible I misread your intent. At any rate, be very careful when you introduce the Holocaust here. If you’re intending to be satirical on the subject, make that more clear.]

@ yisrael: It’s an outrage to deny the Holocaust. But apparently you missed the irony of COlin’s comment which wasn’t meant to deny the Holocaust, but to make fun of you. Tant pis, baby. You hasbarists have no sense of humor.

I do have to admit that after reading your insinuation I read his comment and didn’t get the irony at first. I made the mistake of trusting your errant interpreation.

Regarding your denialism, which is also troubling: it’s almost as bad to deny Palestinian suffering and the Israeli role in causing it. You don’t get off the hook so lightly in this, pal.

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4 months ago

Elisabeth

Every occupied country had plenty of collaborators, so I am sure Norway had too. But you give certain countries a pass, Richard, while you come down harshly on Poland. That keeps surprising me.

@Elisabeth: 3 million Jews were exterminated in Poland and an entire Jewish civilization of hundreds of years. It was the largest Jewish community in all of Europe and where most of my ancestors originated. My great uncle was murdered there. So yes this is a touchy subject for me.

Norway had a Jewish population that was 1/1,000 the size, if that.

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4 months ago

Elisabeth

So Poland was a great place for Jews, for a long time, and then the Nazis ended the Polish Jewish civilization. Why does that make you more angry at Poles than at Norwegians? (I do not know how to measure collaboration with the Nazi’s in an objective manner.)

@ Elisabeth: Poland had many, many more anti-Semites and collaborators than Norway. As a Catholic nation, and a very conservative, traditional one at that, hatred of Jews ran deep. The Nazis needed collaborators to achieve their extermination goals. They had them in spades in Poland, the Ukraine, Hungary and other similar nations. THere were collaborators in Norway too. But there was much less damage they could do to Jews since there were relatively few there.

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4 months ago

Shekkels

Every country would love to smuggle their jewish population over the border.

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2 days ago

lepxii

These might be ordinary large caliber (0.5 inch, 12.7mm) Barrett M82 cartridges used by snipers – which are quite larger than the 0.22in (5.56mm) cartridges used by most IDF rifles. The damage by large caliber projectiles (which typically are also faster) is much more severe.

@lepxii: you hit it right on the money. A munitions expert I consulted agrees with you that these were most likely high velocity bullets used (when used properly) to hit targets at great distances. When you use them on very close targets they cause immense damage like this. But the IDF clearly didn’t give a shit.

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4 months ago

Potter

One needs blood pressure pills for these photos.

What is damning is the actual admission by the IDF spokesperson that lethal bullets were accurate and measured, controlled. The photos might (probably will) be claimed by Israel to be fake as of course they always lie. I wonder if there is a way of verifying them or showing incontrovertible evidence.

Then the international community should condemn this loudly, through the U.N. or the International Criminal Court.

With the Trump administration behind it in support Israel will continue to act with increasing impunity to protect Israelis cowering over the border ostensibly unable to lead their normal lives as these planned marches continue.

Without some serious blowback the Israelis and supporters here will see and feel protected and justified believing the propaganda that this murdering was/is necessary. They will buy the explanations, use them in arguments and tweets and posts on the internet against those who see otherwise turning more and more sour about Israel as the years of occupation continue.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘One needs blood pressure pills for these photos.’

One needs blood pressure pills for Frank. The truth, I can handle. The lies get to be a bit much.

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4 months ago

Potter

Eyes on the prize: Frank does not matter. The truth does.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘Eyes on the prize: Frank does not matter. The truth does.’

The problem is that however obvious the individual lie, when they are allowed to go unchallenged, and pile up, they start to create a ‘truth’ of their own.

This is how ‘hasbara’ works. Of course each individual claim is at best irrelevant and at worst an outright lie. However, cumulatively, they create an effect of ‘truth.’ This is particularly so if one considers the effect on the casual, ignorant observer, already disposed to regard the Jews of Palestine as ‘one of us’ and the Palestinians as ‘them’ (hasbara goes to great lengths to promote this attitude as well).

I dunno what to do about it. Responding to each successive lies is like swatting flies; you wear yourself out, and the hasbaroids just keep coming. Rebut one lie and they’ll just trot out another. Ignore them, and you’re allowing them to start building that edifice of lies: ‘Israel is the only democracy in the Middle East,’ ‘Israel is our loyal ally,’ ‘the Palestinians are terrorists,’ ‘the Jews are undre constant attack and have to defend themselves,’ etc.

‘Standard military use full-metal jacket bullets will fragment after penetrating the body.’

That, as it happens, is a lie. Just the opposite effect is usually sought, as it’s desired to penetrate any kevlar, the helmet, or whatever. In fact, in Afghanistan, a somewhat ghoulish ‘problem’ has been that our standard-issue military rounds go in one side of a mujadeen and out the other without expanding (or, as you would have it, fragmenting) at all, leaving a neat quarter-inch hole, which may not even incapacitate the victim.

No neat quarter inch holes in Gaza, eh, Frank?

…but why am I falling for this? Your posts are nothing but hasbara attempts at misdirection. Let’s talk about how in Israel, it’s NORMAL to shoot unarmed demonstrators, people praying, etc — much less shoot them when they’re not even in your country. The bullets could be getting up from the ground and doing the tango — it would be beside the point.

@ Frank: these didn’t just fragment, they exploded in some way on impact. Either they were butterfly or dumdum bullets. Or they were high velocity bullets used on targets that were close to the shooter/killer. Such bullets fired at close range will have such explosive impact. In other words, if you’re planning to shoot people at close range don’t use high velocity bullets to do so, unless you want to have a mess like this to explain.

Hard to discern which comes first, word warfare or weapon warfare. I suspect they coevolved…and intellectual elites have really done a number on the rest of us in the social dominance hierarchy rat race. What a species!

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘…and intellectual elites have really done a number on the rest of us in the social dominance hierarchy rat race…’

Off-topic, but have they?

Trump’s election and subsequent presidency suggests otherwise. I think Europeans have a bit more respect for their betters — but they’ll catch up.

Goering said something along the lines of ‘whenever I hear the word ‘intellectual, I reach for my Browning’ — and he actually did. Ditto — En masse — for the executioners of the leftist intelligensia of Russia. The intelligensia started the revolution, but Stalin finished it.

Of course by definition the chattering comes from the chattering classes. However, it’s questionable if they ever do prevail in the end. The debates are succeeded by the tumbrils. The fever of the French revolution, of late Tsarist Russia, of Weimar Germany is cooled down with the firm hand of a Napoleon, a Stalin, or a Hitler. The ‘intellectual elites’ flee, toe the line, or lose their heads.

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4 months ago

Frank

Hi Mr. Wright,

I hope you are well this day.

I don’t believe I’ve misdirected at all. I merely linked to a website of apolitical gun enthusiasts comments on bullet fragmentation. If you dispute their claims, than write to them directly.
Your holocaust denial comment is a misdirection and your ad hominem attack on me doesn’t help your argument either.
Don’t raise your voice, instead, buttress your claims with proof that these wounds were caused by explosive ammo.
I am sure the internet has a lot of information on fragmenting ammo and traumatic gunshot wounds.

Have a great day,

Yours,
Franklin

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

I quote: ‘Let’s talk about how in Israel, it’s NORMAL to shoot unarmed demonstrators, people praying, etc…’

@ Frank: Your links and sources are a red herring and you know it. THis is really poor elementary hasbara. Can’t you do better, Frank?

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘are you here denying the Holocaust?’

Beam me up, Scottie…

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4 months ago

yisrael

you have not answered my question.
as far as “Beam me up, Scottie…” excuse my naivete but i am not sure what your intention is. is it Scottie the bartender giving you some Jim Beam or what?

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

I’m insulting you.

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4 months ago

yisrael

OK, but you have still not answered my question.

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4 months ago

Elisabeth

It was pretty clear that his comment was ridiculing the suggestion by Frank that the exploding bullet story was fake, by making a similar idiotic claim about the gas chambers. Not my cup of tea, but anyway: have you never heard of sarcasm?

@ Elisabeth: I read Colin’s comment before I read your interpretation. I should’ve waited before deleting it. I’d read a hasbara commenter insinuate that Colin was introducing an element of Holocaust denial & I missed his satire. Thanks for offering your view.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

Definition of a true warrior for Israel: someone who can look at the photographs at the head of this article and then defend the conduct.

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4 months ago

yisrael

“who can look at the photographs at the head of this article and then defend the conduct.”
can you compare that to the thousands of pictures of the Holocaust?

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4 months ago

SimoHurtta

In many Israeli comments they claim that what happened was legal, because Israel has the right to defend its sovereignty. Gaza is no sovereign state or area, it is still legally a part of Israel and people there are there not voluntarily, they would like to be on their own lands in Israel. Claiming what Israel claims, then collecting all Jews from certain area to an isolated area like Gaza and insisting the isolated have autonomy and sovereignty is/was also legal and justified. When this happened to Jews during WW2 they were the first to say it is not legal and justified, but when they are on the other side of rifle they have an opposite view – strange people aren’t they?

This Israeli Gaza (and West Bank) justification makes the Nazi ghettos legal with the Israeli sovereignty defending and ghetto status interpretation. Was SS defending and attacking the “borders” around Warsaw Ghetto legal? Gaza is no sovereign state or area as we all including Israelis know, it is part of Israel like Warsaw Ghetto was then part of Nazi Germany (Poland under occupation). Eventually Israel will do what Germany did with Warsaw Ghetto. If you do not sooner or later you have to allow the Palestinians of Gaza to be equal with Israeli Jews. If you in Israel believe and wish that Egypt will take Gaza and the millions living there you must be stupid. Egyptians and others know what will destroy the Zionist enemy are not weapons, it is how Zionists solve the Palestinian question. If the solution is mass murder of millions Israel is finished, if the solution is equality to Palestinians Israel will become Palestine.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘“who can look at the photographs at the head of this article and then defend the conduct.”
can you compare that to the thousands of pictures of the Holocaust?’

And what kind of a person would defend the Holocaust?

…presumably, a seriously disturbed and murderous anti-semite. …so that brings us to the more immediate question: what kind of a Zionist could look at that photograph and defend the actions that produced it?

@ yisrael: it is typical of the hasbara brigade to try to compare Israeli massacre of Palestinians to the Holocaust by way of claiming the behavior now of Israeli Jews is somehow mitigated by the horror of the Holocaust. Not only is this morally bankrupt and irrelevant, it is offensive.

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4 months ago

yisrael

[Comment deleted: you may not violate comment rules. Offering your unsubstantiated opinion that somepne.is an anti Semite is worthless. Do this again and you lose comment privileges. Read the comment rules.]

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

This really is falling for it, but here’s the first quote I found from a medical journal:

‘…For the majority of high velocity gunshot wounds, especially military rifles that generally fire a projectile that is meant to stay intact after impact, wound severity can be limited, even much less than that from a civilian rifle, shotgun or handgun. Judicious use of débridement during surgical exploration limits the extent of iatrogenic injury in the surgical care of these patients….’

‘Generally fire a projectile that is meant to stay intact after impact…’. Or, we can go with supposed posts at a gun owners site probably written by people trying to justify Israeli criminality in the first place.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘…The history of Israeli ambassadors in Norway hasn’t been very auspicious lately. A few years ago, I wrote about the ambassador who tried to rape his housekeeper in the official residence…’

I imagine Norway doesn’t rate Israel’s ‘A’ team — such as it is.

Being both small and exquisitely moral in that Scandanavian way, its opinion isn’t terribly important; plus, it’s unlikely to condone gross criminality in any case. So, it’d be a good place to park the hopelessly inept. They can go ahead and rape the help, etc. Not much harm done.

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4 months ago

yisrael

[comment deleted: comments must be on-topic. This comment was so obscure even I couldn’t figure out your reference. Nor do I ask you to explain it. Keep your comments directly related to the post and don’t use vague unexplained references to events.]

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4 months ago

Elisabeth

They should have blown up the house of his parents, and killed him inside of it, right, Yisrael?

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘They should have blown up the house of his parents, and killed him inside of it, right, Yisrael?’

That would depend almost entirely on whether he had been a Jew killing Palestinians or a Palestinian killing Jews.

Of course, that really goes without saying, doesn’t it? After we’re referring to what Israel would do.

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4 months ago

SimoHurtta

yisrael do you know who is professor Johan Galtung? Galtung has published more than a thousand articles and over a hundred books. He has more honorary academic titles than you have fingers. He has expressed views of who made possible for Breivik to do what he did. Well of course this founder of peace studies is a simple antisemitist and conspiracy theorist – or is he?

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘“it’s unlikely to condone gross criminality in any case”
really? what about the murderer who killed 76 people, a great deal of them children, and got 21 years in prison?
they are exquisitely immoral.’

In Israel, such an individual would be headed for the Prime Minister’s office. See Ariel Sharon.

‘ (Ma’an) — Adalah, the Legal Center for Arab Minority Rights in Israel, released a statement on Saturday urging the Israeli government to allow for the safe evacuation of two Palestinians who are still lying injured, or dead, along the Gaza border, with no one able to reach them without the risk of coming under Israeli army fire…’

Baffling. If one grants that Israel is even remotely civilized, how can this be happening?

@ Frank: Cut the shit, Frank. The false bonhommie and snark bugs the shit outa me. Keep it up and you’ll go the way of previous hasbarachiks here. Say what you have to say and be done. I don’t need fond farewells and formal greetings.

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4 months ago

SimoHurtta

Frank if the Palestinians were at the fence when the tank fired it means that Israelis themselves did blow a giant whole to the fence. Lucky that your generals did not order droping a 1000 kg bomb on the “boys”. Some military geniuses there.

When IDF did destroy a maternity clinic financed by Finnish Church in Gaza, the Finnish state demanded an answer why that was done. Naturally the explanation was that IDF did not know that there was a clinic in the building and there was a “Hamas weapon storage”. We did not swallow the explanation because if IDF does know that Hamas has in building their weapons (which they did not have) but doesn’t know that there is a large maternity clinic, which has operated there for long time, sounds really stupid in our ears. Israel answered further, that if they would have known that there was a clinic they would not have bombed the building. Finland answered that on the roof had been for a longer time a huge painted medical site sign. Do you Frank think that what Israel says is taken seriously when the excuses are always so idiotic? We in the western countries nowadays laugh in silence but dare not to say what we think because then starts that vocal and loud antisemitic & Holocaust – we are the real victims here – howling by Israel and their local chorus.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘..but dare not to say what we think because then starts that vocal and loud antisemitic & Holocaust – we are the real victims here – howling by Israel and their local chorus.’

Yeah. The way the Zionists have hijacked the Holocaust and anti-semitism and put it all to good use is pretty disgusting.

I remember the way I used to react to encounters with the above subjects; horrified fascination with accounts of Babi Yar, failure to find references to NYU as ‘NY Jew’ amusing.

Now it’s more like ‘you’re not dragging this out for another turn on the stage, are you?’ For example, someday I intend to visit Cracow — it escaped devastation in World War Two, apparently. While there, I’d no more go visit Auschwitz than I’d invite Frank into my home. Nuts to that.

It’s sad — because of course the Holocaust was horrifying, and anti-semitism can be real. However, the Zionists have cheapened both coins to the point where they are no longer legal tender. It’s as if American Indians tried to bludgeon us into patronizing their businesses by advertising the ‘Wounded Knee Quickee-Mart & Casino.’

It really is. The logic is that ‘because this awful thing was done to some other people who shared our religious or cultural indentity to some extent, you should acquiesce in and even support our morally vile project in Palestine.’ In the end, the one pollutes the other.

@ Frank: HOlding the corpses of dead soldiers hostage is a violation of the laws of war. Not to mention the abject hypocrisy of Israel invading Gaza and killing 2,300 Gazans, mostly civilians; then whining when Hamas holds the body of one or two of the IDF’s invading soldiers. THe two Palestinians killed must be repatriated to their family for burial. Otherwise, Israel is committing a war crime for which it will someday pay the price.

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4 months ago

yisrael

What about the corpses that Hamas is holding and the two mentally disturbed people also?

i.e. the Finish hospital in Gaza.
In 2006 Lebanon war Hizballah relentlessly tried to hit the Safed hospital. There was a helium tank,since removed, and they did succeed in hitting the top floor maternity ward. Fortunately they had moved everyone to the shelter in the basement. As far as I know this never hit the news but I may be wrong.
How does it go ‘what’s good for the geese is good for the gander”?

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘What about the corpses that Hamas is holding and the two mentally disturbed people also?

i.e. the Finish hospital in Gaza.
In 2006 Lebanon war Hizballah relentlessly tried to hit the Safed hospital. There was a helium tank,since removed, and they did succeed in hitting the top floor maternity ward…’

First off, Hamas could no more ‘try to hit’ a specific target with one of their unguided rockets than a chimpanzee could type all of Shakespeare’s sonnets.

Secondly, so what? Is your point that Israel is morally equivalent to Hamas? Okay — gee. We’d better criminalize giving money to either one of them, huh?

@ yisrael: Read the comments before writing your own. I already addressed this. Hamas has two corpses. Israel created 2,300 corpses in 2014. So sorry if I don’t get quite as worked up over 2 corpses. If Israel hadn’t invaded Gaza there would be no corpses.

As for the Lebanon war, Hezbollah couldn’t possibly target a specific facility. Its rockets at that home had no guidance system. You pointed the rocket in the right direction and hoped it landed somewhere. That’s about it. Nor do you have any proof Hezcollah targeted a hospital. If you do, offer it. If you don’t, spare us your wasted breath.

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4 months ago

yisrael

[Comment deleted: don’t make an argument, have it rebutted, then persist in rearguing the same or similar point. It’s boring and reoetituve.

I strongly suspect that that the ‘victims’, were two armed terrorists shot and killed in a firefight as they attempted to storm the border fence…’

I’m not sure whether I failed to post this, or whether the entry is merely working its way through the bowels of the internet, but Frank’s b/w footage looks like some kind of night footage from somewhere — certainly not daylight footage of the protests.

Regardless, it’s classic Hasbara redirection. How does the fact that there were infiltrators in one place justify shooting praying protestors in broad daylight some place else?

People object to Babi Yar? Post footage of RAF bombers over Essen. You could have done good work back in the day, Frank.

If the first version of this post went up, please delete this one.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

As another point, we’re getting suckered into accepting Frank’s footage as coming from last Friday — or even being authentic at all.

The IDF released obviously staged ‘footage’ after the Mavi Marmara attack. This may merely be evidence they’ve gotten a little better at lying.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘…I end with an approx quote from Nasrallah “I want all the Jews to move to Israel so we can exterminate them all easily and so we don’t have search them out over the world’. probably based on the Hadith that at the end of time the Jews will be hiding behind thorn bushes and we will have to kill them”’

Too bad so many of these ‘quotations’ have been mistranslated or even fabricated entirely.

Otherwise, you might at least have enough credibility to make me go do a search on the text. In any case, HOW does whatever Nasrallah says justify shooting unarmed protestors with dum-dum bullets?

Kids back in the Sixties spouted all kinds of ridiculous and even murderous nonsense. I never heard any of it offered up as justification for the Kent State shootings.

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4 months ago

yisrael

[Comment deleted: oh really?! You have have the goddamn effrontery to quote Quran as if you’re a Quranic scholar. You repulse me. You wouldn’t know a hadith if one bit you in the derriere.]

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

As another footnote, somewhere, at some point, someone will trot out the claim that Israel is held to a higher standard than anyone else.

Looking over the above, the situation would appear to be more or less the opposite. The Harbarists produce their pathetic sophistries and outright lies. Everyone else insists Israel should be held to the same standard everyone else is. Honestly. You don’t shoot people peacefully praying. You don’t shoot them with dum-dum bullets. It sounds absurd to even have to enunciate such self-evident propositions.

…and it all is absurd. Bleakly, tediously, repetitively, nauseatingly absurd.

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4 months ago

SimoHurtta

A perfect example. When I wrote in a comment how Israel destroyed in Gaza a Finnish financed maternity clinic the answer of an Israeli propagandist -yisrael- was naturally how Hezbollah was targeting the helium tank of Safed-hospital several years earlier and on the other side of Israel. Surely Hezbollah has enough clever operators, that they would not target a helium tank. Hitting such a tank would only cause the Israeli pronunciation of Hizbollah to change from CCHHHHHEZBOLAACHHH THHERRRORISTTS to something more understandable for us non-Hebrew speakers. As we all now from films helium changes how we hear people speaking (to a more child like pronunciation). Educated people even know, that helium is the most stable element and non-flammable. Hitting with rockets some other gas/fluid tanks would make military sense (hydrogen, oxygen, ammonia, chlorine etc) but this genius among Zionist propagandists did choose the gas were the effects are rather minimal.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘…Hitting with rockets some other gas/fluid tanks would make military sense (hydrogen, oxygen, ammonia, chlorine etc) but this genius among Zionist propagandists did choose the gas were the effects are rather minimal.’

I suppose a rocket did come down somewhere near a helium tank, and of course ‘targetting a helium tank’ does sound pretty awful — until you think about it.

Hey, you gotta work with what you got. YOU try defending Israel. As the hasbarists keep involuntarily demonstrating, it’s just about impossible.

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4 months ago

Colin Wright

‘@ Elisabeth: I read Colin’s comment before I read your interpretation. I should’ve waited before deleting it. I’d read a hasbara commenter insinuate that Colin was introducing an element of Holocaust denial & I missed his satire. Thanks for offering your view.’

To be precise, my point was that Frank’s mendacity about military bullets fragmenting is just like Holocaust denialist claims that the gas chambers weren’t really gas chambers because there’s no cyanide residue in the walls, etc.

In both cases, the scheme is to dream up some spurious technical ‘facts’ that serve to deny the more important truth. The Holocaust really did happen. Israeli soldiers really were using militarily illegal munitions so as to inflict more horrific wounds still on the demonstrators they shouldn’t have been shooting in the first place.

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4 months ago

dpalmer

“There’s a reason dum-dum bullets are illegal under international law.”

Except they aren’t.

Part of the 1899 Hague Convention outlawed expanding bullets (like the dum dum) but it only applies to countries that signed that part and even then only when fighting another country that has signed that part. And very simply, Israel hasn’t signed it. In fact only 33 countries have signed it and only one of those is in the mid-east.

According to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), state practice further establishes as a norm of customary international law applicable in both international and non-international armed conflict that the anti-personnel use of bullets which explode within the human body is prohibited.
ICRC, Customary IHL Study, 2005, Rule 78.

The personal and temporal scope of application of the contemporary customary prohibition…binds all parties to an armed conflict (states and non-state actors alike), and, according to the ICRC, applies in international and non-international armed conflict.

You cited a single 120 year old convention without mentioning that international humanitarian law didn’t get codified in stone in 1899. IT has developed and there are many other aspects which developed since then. This source shoots you out of the water.

The problem with these hasbaroids is that they manage to quote a single quasi fact or source, take it totally out of context, then argue that it is the correct and controlling precedent. And of course it always argues in Israel’s favor. But their arguments are a bit like cancer, if you look at it from the outside it looks totally normal. But scratch a bit beneath the surface and it’s a cesspool of lies and twisted claims.

But even if international law didn’t ban these atrocities, are you arguing that bullets which explode inside a human body causing devastating injuries to civilians are cool because they’re not technically outlawed. Coz it sure sounds like you’re saying that.

I don’t want to get into an argument with you on this cuz I see a hasbara thread coming. So let’s leave it at that. Continue peddling bullshit here & you will arouse my ire. Just sayin’.

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