Post by Bob B. on Nov 21, 2009 2:33:01 GMT -4

Hi, all.

Over the years I've worked on several analyzes, simulations, etc. as a result of discussions on this forum. Others have done the same, producing some very good work. Unfortunately, over time, these things get buried in the pages of the forum and become difficult to retrieve when needed. And when we do find them, they are always intermixed with all sort of irrelevant discussion. I've decided to rewrite some of these studies and archive them for future reference. I'm just getting started on this, but here is what I have so far:

I'd like to invite the other regular members of this forum to contribute their own work, which I'd be happy to host on my site. If there are any particular studies you've done that you think are worthy of inclusion, please speak up. Or if you'd like to nominate someone else's work, here's the place to do it.

I can format the articles for inclusion in the web page, but I want the author to provide all the text, images, etc. You'll, or course, get full credit for the work.

I think having this work archived off site will make it easier to access. When applicable, we can reference the articles and discuss them here in the forum. This will also allow the author to present his/her work and conclusions uninterrupted by others and, therefore, easier to read and understand.

Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 21, 2009 13:41:54 GMT -4

The LRO imagery of the Apollo landing sites would be good to include. Someone here (sorry, can't remember who at the moment) did some really great comparisons between the LRO photos and photos taken by the Apollo astronauts that clearly show they are the same sites.

Post by Kiwi on Nov 23, 2009 5:52:28 GMT -4

...I'd like to invite the other regular members of this forum to contribute their own work, which I'd be happy to host on my site. If there are any particular studies you've done that you think are worthy of inclusion, please speak up. Or if you'd like to nominate someone else's work, here's the place to do it...

Excellent idea, Bob. As you say, sometimes useful information gets buried in a forum. It's a good idea to have it on another site for convenience and security and perhaps Lunar Orbit could also host it on his other website.

Your two picks in the second post were the first that came to mind for me, and I'd also add:

** Your two annotated photos that illustrate the different perspective on East Massif from two different Apollo 17 stations. They showed that the second was taken lower and to the left of the first, and admirably blew away the "cardboard backdrop" nonsense. Perhaps you could redo them using bigger copies of the latest scans, and even add others that show the same features from nearer the LM.

Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Post by Bob B. on Nov 23, 2009 15:18:26 GMT -4

Count Zero,

With your permission, I'd like to add your weather map analysis to my web page. Since you nicely presented your case in a single post, it should be pretty easy to copy it over. If there is anything you'd like to edit or add, this can easily be done. Also, do you want it credited to your real name?

Post by Bob B. on Nov 23, 2009 15:35:15 GMT -4

** Your two annotated photos that illustrate the different perspective on East Massif from two different Apollo 17 stations. They showed that the second was taken lower and to the left of the first, and admirably blew away the "cardboard backdrop" nonsense. Perhaps you could redo them using bigger copies of the latest scans, and even add others that show the same features from nearer the LM.

If I get enough contributions from other members, I'll probably rename the site. Right now it's titled Bob Braeunig's Apollo Pages because my stuff is all there is. I can give it a name having something to do with ApolloHoax and make it a sister site to this forum. If LunarOrbit would rather host it, I have no probably with moving it.

Post by LunarOrbit on Nov 23, 2009 19:50:14 GMT -4

Bob, I have been planning on compiling a list of "recommended reading" for the main ApolloHoax.net site. It will include links to articles located on other sites (like yours and Clavius) as well as copies of important posts from this forum.

I want to preserve the most important posts from this forum on the main site just in case the forum is lost. I don't have the ability to backup the entire forum database to my computer. Proboards performs regular backups but if they ever went out of business (or an asteroid impacted the location of their servers) we would lose everything.

I don't think it would be a bad idea to duplicate this information among multiple websites for extra security. The information could be located on your site, the ApolloHoax main site, and on my other website (TheSpaceRace.com), assuming the authors approved.

The only reason I haven't done this already (besides a shortage of spare time) is because first I want to implement a content management system called Drupal on both of my sites. It will allow authors to write articles online without needing to send them through me as a middle man. It would be like a wiki but with more control over who gets to write and edit the articles.

Post by Bob B. on Nov 23, 2009 21:28:43 GMT -4

The only reason I haven't done this already (besides a shortage of spare time) is because first I want to implement a content management system called Drupal on both of my sites. It will allow authors to write articles online without needing to send them through me as a middle man. It would be like a wiki but with more control over who gets to write and edit the articles.

I like that idea.

Although linking to a post in the forum is helpful, it is often not as simple as directing a reader to a single post. Sometimes the presentation of an argument may be spread out over several posts and pages. It can get confusing trying to follow a discussion that may have taken place years earlier. This is why I like the idea of repackaging some of this stuff in a new format. Not only will it be easier to find, but it will also be a better presentation of the work.

I definitely plan to get my own stuff organized because right now it’s all over the place. Whether or not I put other people’s stuff on my site is something that needs to be decided. I don’t see a reason for you and I to duplicate effort.

If you’re going to have your own site, I probably shouldn’t use the ApolloHoax name on mine. I think I’ll just keep it Bob Braeunig’s Apollo Pages. I’m still willing to host stuff by other authors, but if you’re going to have a site for members to post articles, I’ll likely do so on a very limited basis. I think I’ll just selectively choose what I’d like to put on the site and ask permission to republish.

Post by Kiwi on Nov 24, 2009 0:38:21 GMT -4

If you want I could redo my stuff in the two stickies in this section -- Thumbnails and links to Apollo By the Numbers. The latter could do with the titles plus the links. They're not debunking threads, but are handy for those doing research.

Perhaps if others could nominate their favourite threads or posts -- the ones they learned a lot from -- that might bring up more useful material.

Don't criticize what you can't understand. — Bob Dylan, “The Times They Are A-Changin'” (1963)Some people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices and superstitions. — Edward R. Murrow (1908–65)

Post by Count Zero on Nov 24, 2009 4:08:12 GMT -4

With your permission, I'd like to add your weather map analysis to my web page. Since you nicely presented your case in a single post, it should be pretty easy to copy it over. If there is anything you'd like to edit or add, this can easily be done. Also, do you want it credited to your real name?

Permission granted. I would prefer that you credit it to my real name.

As far as editing, you can leave-out the BAUT reference at the beginning. Also, I think you can cut the footnote, which was a personal memory of one of the storms indicated. Although I used it to reinforce the overall argument, it is difficult to independently verify. I think the empirical nature of the rest of the evidence is adequate.

The second & third paragraphs reference Phantom Wolf's work in demonstrating how the behavior of the Earth's image invalidates Sibrel's hypothesis. Depending on how you reference his work, you may want to tweak the text to accomodate your format.

Of course, my argument was only one of three that debunked Sibrel's "Smoking Gun". PW's was another. Svector made a video which covered the same ground with video instead of screen-caps. The third argument I think also comes from Svector's videos. It compares images of Earth from the beginning and end of the long transmission, and conclusively shows that the Earth had rotated in the interval.

Post by Bob B. on Nov 24, 2009 9:50:12 GMT -4

Thanks, Rick.

I was already aware of the fine work PW had done, but since it's on his own web site, I wasn't too concerned about putting it on mine. I also wasn't aware until just now that PW added your analysis to the bottom of his page. (Actually, I think I did know and just forgot.) Since your weather map work is preserved there, I find it less important to put it on my site. I still may do so, however. I'll have to think about this and decide how I want to handle it. I'm not familiar with Svector's videos on this topic; I'll have to look into them.

My goal here is to collect and preserve some of the good work done in the pages of this forum in an easy to retrieve location. I don't necessarily want to duplicate what is already available elsewhere. Perhaps I can just link to PW's page and the videos. I'll let you know what I decide.

Post by Bob B. on Nov 24, 2009 10:50:20 GMT -4

If you want I could redo my stuff in the two stickies in this section -- Thumbnails and links to Apollo By the Numbers. The latter could do with the titles plus the links. They're not debunking threads, but are handy for those doing research.

Although I'm primarily interested in the various studies and analyzes performed to debunk the hoax claims, I could probably include a section for reference materials, in which case, your Thumbnails and Apollo by the Numbers links would be good.

Perhaps if others could nominate their favourite threads or posts -- the ones they learned a lot from -- that might bring up more useful material.

There has been a lot of good stuff over the years that we tend to forget about over time. Of course, Jay always has good educational stuff to say, but since he has Clavius, I'm not too concerned about archiving his work. PhantomWolf also has his web site. What I'm trying to achieve here is to preserve the good work of those may have no other outlet to present their studies other than the pages of the forum. The forum is a great resource, but is does have its limitations as an archive.

BTW, the other guy who I've learned much from and I always enjoy reading his posts is sts60.