The Insanity of the Sane

Surah Al Kahf March 5, 2006

Introduction
Surah Al Kahf was revealed to Mohammad (saw) after the Jews, told the mushriks to ask the Prophets three things:

Who were the Sleepers of the cave and what was their story?

Who was Dhul Qarnain?

What he (Muhammad) knows about the Ruh?

The prophet (saw) told them that he would tell them in the morning, hoping that he would get revelation from Gibraeel, however he did not. After fifteen days the mushriks returned, thinking they triumphed over the Prophet. He (saw) began to feel sad but the next day Gibraeel revealed to him (saw), Surah Al Kahf, which contained the answers of their (the mushriks) question.

The Surah can be divided into about seven sections and contains four main stories. They are as follows:

The Sleepers of the Cave

This is about a number of youths who because of their belief in Allah (swt) were driven out of their homes, and ended up in a cave. Here Allah (swt) made them sleep for a number of years (309 lunar years which is 300 solar years).They then awoke, when asked how long they had slept for they estimated a day or half a day. One of the youths went to the town to get some food. He disguised himself thinking that the people would recognise him and harm him. But when he got there he found himself amongst a different people. The people of the town were amazed at his strange clothes and old coins. They went to the cave and saw the youth. After leaving it is reported that the youth went back to sleep and Allah (swt) caused them to die. Allah (swt) knows best.

The Christian version of this story is known as ‘The Seven Sleepers of Epheus’, however the Qur’aan mentions not the number of those who were in the cave, rather Allah (swt) says:

(Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth,- doubtfully guessing at the unknown; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say thou: “My Lord knoweth best their number; It is but few that know their (real case).” Enter not, therefore, into controversies concerning them, except on a matter that is clear, nor consult any of them about (the affair of) the Sleepers. [18:22]

If the number of those in the cave had any importance or significance, surely Allah would have told us, we are told not to waste our time discussing such matters. The importance of the story is not how many men were in the cave, but the message that it carries.

The location of the cave is also not mentioned, except that Allah (swt) says:

Thou wouldst have seen the sun, when it rose, declining to the right from their Cave, and when it set, turning away from them to the left, while they lay in the open space in the midst of the Cave… [18:17]

Some scholars have said that the location of the cave is ‘Arajeeb’ in Jordan, according to the description given in the above verse. But again, the location of the cave is not mentioned in the Qur’aan and therefore bears no significance.

The Owners of the Two Gardens

This is a story about two men, one of whom had been given two gardens by Allah. He began to boast, forgetting to thank Allah (swt) for the bounties bestowed upon him. The second man warned him and told him to be thankful to Allah (swt) but he refused and so Allah (swt) destroyed his garden.

This story gives an example of the tests of wealth. Its shows that wealth is a temporary thing in this life, and just as Allah (swt) can give, He can also take it away at any moment He likes. The man had thought himself superior in terms of wealth; however this it is not the level of wealth that Allah (swt) will judge us by, but by our level of taqwa and Imaan.

Al Khidr

The full story of Al Khidr is mentioned in the following hadith:

Ubai Ibn Ka’b told us that the Prophet (PBUH) said: Once Moses stood up and addressed Bani Israel. He was asked who the most learned man amongst the people was. He said: “I.” Allah admonished him as he did not attribute absolute knowledge to Him (Allah). So, Allah said to him: “Yes, at the junction of the two seas there is a slave of Mine who is more learned than you.” Moses said: “O my Lord! How can I meet him?” Allah said: “Take a fish and put it in a large basket and you will find him at the place where you will lose the fish.”

Moses took a fish and put it in a basket and proceeded along with his (servant) boy, Joshua (Yusha Ibn Nun), till they reached the rock where they laid their heads (i.e. lay down). Moses slept, and the fish, moving out of the basket, fell into the sea. It took its way into the sea (straight) as in a tunnel. Allah stopped the flow of water over the fish and it became like an arch (the Prophet pointed out this arch with his hands). They travelled the rest of the night, and the next day Moses said to his boy (servant): “Give us our food, for indeed, we have suffered much fatigue in this journey of ours.” Moses did not feel tired till he crossed that place which Allah had ordered him to seek after. His boy (servant) said to him: “Do you know that when we were sitting near that rock, I forgot the fish, and none but Satan caused me to forget to tell (you) about it, and it took its course into the sea in an amazing way?” So there was a path for the fish and that astonished them. Moses said: ‘That was what we were seeking after.”

So both of them retraced their footsteps till they reached the rock. There they saw a man lying covered with a garment. Moses greeted him, and he replied saying: “How do people greet each other in your land?” Moses said: “I am Moses.”

The man asked: “Moses of Bani Israel?” Moses said: “Yes, I have come to you so that you may teach me from those things which Allah has taught you.” He said: “O Moses! I have some of the knowledge of Allah which Allah has taught me and which you do not know, while you have some of the knowledge of Allah which Allah has taught you and which I do not know.” Moses asked: “May I follow you?” He said: “But you will not be able to remain patient with me, for how can you be patient about things which you will not be able to understand?” Moses said: “You will find me, if Allah so will, truly patient, and I will not disobey you in aught.”

So both of them set out walking along the sea-shore. A boat passed by them, and they asked the crew of the boat to take them on board. The crew recognised Al-Khidr, so they took them on board without fare. When they were on board the boat, a sparrow came and stood on the edge of the boat and dipped its beak once or twice into the sea. Al-Khidr said to Moses: “O Moses! My knowledge and your knowledge have not decreased Allah’s knowledge except as much as this sparrow has decreased the water of the sea with its beak.” Then suddenly Al-Khidr took an adze and pulled up a plank, and Moses did not notice it till he had pulled up a plank with the adze. Moses said to him: “What have you done? They took us on board charging us nothing; yet you have intentionally made a hole in their boat so as to drown its passengers. Verily, you have done a dreadful thing.” Al-Khidr replied: “Did I not tell you that you would not be able to remain patient with me?” Moses replied: “Do not blame me for what I have forgotten, and do not be hard upon me for my fault.” So the first excuse of Moses was that he had forgotten.

When they had left the sea, they passed by a boy playing with other boys. Al-Khidr took hold of the boy’s head and plucked it with his hand like this. (Sufyan, the sub-narrator gestured with his fingertips as if he were plucking some fruit.) Moses said to him: “Have you killed an innocent person who has not killed any person? You have really done a horrible thing.” Al-Khidr said: “Did I not tell you that you could not remain patient with me?” Moses said: “If I ask you about anything after this, don’t accompany me. You have received an excuse from me.”

Then both of them went on till they came to some people of a village, and they asked its inhabitants for food but they refused to entertain them as guests. Then they saw therein a wall which was just going to collapse and Al Khidr repaired it just by touching it with his hands. Moses said: “These are the people, whom we have called on, but they neither gave us food, nor entertained us as guests, yet you have repaired their wall. If you had wished, you could have taken wages for it.”

Al-Khidr said: “This is the parting between you and me, and I shall tell you the explanation of those things on which you could not remain patient.” [Sahih Bukhari]

The explanation of the events are in the Qur’aan:

“As for the ship, it belonged to poor people working in the sea. So I wished to make a defective damage in it, as there was a king after them who seized every ship by force.

“And as for the boy, his parents were believers, and we feared lest he should oppress them by rebellion and disbelief. So we intended that their Lord should change him for them for one better in righteousness and near to mercy.

“And as for the wall, it belonged to two orphan boys in the town; and there was under it a treasure belonging to them; and their father was a righteous man, and your Lord intended that they should attain their age of full strength and take out their treasure as a mercy from your Lord. And I did it not of my own accord. That is the interpretation of those (things) over which you could not hold patience. [18:79-82]

Some scholars believe that the story is set around the Sinai peninsular, where Musa and the Israelites are said to have stayed.

According to hadith literature the slave boy, is called Yusha` bin Nun who became the leader of the Israelites after Musa (as)

Al Khidr is the name given to the man in the story. This is reported in Sahih Al Bukhari, in which the Prophet (saw) said that he (the man) was named Al Khidr (which means green), because he sat on a patch of withered vegetation and it turned green. It is debated whether he is a prophet or angel. According to ibn Kathir, those who say he was a Prophet of Allah (swt) base it upon the following ayah:

So they found one of Our servants, on whom We had bestowed Mercy from Ourselves and whom We had taught knowledge from Our own Presence. [18:65]

Dhul Qarnain

Dhul Qarnain was a righteous king, who travelled, west and east. The Qur’aan describes three of his journeys, the last being the most significant. He travelled to a place between two mountains where he met a tribe of people. They asked him to erect a wall between them and the tribes of Ya’juj and Ma’juj who caused mischief in the land. Dhul Qarnain agreed to do so.

Dhul Qarnain translates to the ‘Two Horned King’. The Qur’aan gives no information about who he was; however popular opinion identifies him as Alexander the Great. Others opinion is that he was an ancient Persian king, while some say he was a Himyarite king. This is refuted by many Muslims scholars who say he was a king, who lived at the time of Ibraheem (as)

The Qur’aan relates to us of 3 journeys that he takes, one to a western land:

“…Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water…” [18:86]

Here he found a nation of people, Allah (swt) gave him the choice to punish them or treat them kindly. Dhul Qarnain chose to punish those who persisted in kufr and treat the beleivers well

His second journey is to an eastern land:

“…Until, when he came to the rising of the sun, he found it rising on a people for whom We had provided no covering protection against the sun.”[18:90]

Where he found a people, who Allah had not provided with shade, i.e. they had no buildings or trees to keep them shade.

And lastly he travels to a land between two mountains:

“…Until, when he reached (a tract) between two mountains… [18:93]

Here, he met a people who asked him to build a barrier between them and the tribes of Ya’juj and Ma’juj.

Ya’juj and Ma’juj are from the progeny of Adam, i.e. they are human beings. Folklore has spread, claiming they are not human, or different from humans in some way. For example they are describes to have two large ears, one is used as a bed and the other as a duvet to cover themselves with. However this is false, as it is reported in a sahih hadith that they are the descendants of Yafith the son of Nuh (as).

Ya’juj and Ma’juj compromise nine tenths of mankind. This is according to the following hadith:

“Allah divided mankind into ten parts. Nine tenths constitute Ya’juj and Ma’juj while the remaining one tenth constitutes the rest of mankind.” [Abdullah-b-Amr/Fathul-Bari]

The whereabouts of the wall constructed by Dhul Qarnain is unknown. There have been many speculations. Some say it is the great wall of China, some say it is in Russia, however, Allah knows best where the wall is and when the Hour (the day of judgement) draws near, by Allah’s will the wall will be destroyed and the tribes of Ya’juj and Ma’juj will be set loose to cause havoc on the earth, destroying everything that they come across.

Virtues of Surah Al Kahf

Surah Al Kahf has many virtues. It is a Sunnah to recite this Surah every Friday. As well as this, it is reported in hadith, that whoever memorises the beginning of this Surah will be protected from the dajjal;

Whoever memorizes ten Ayat from the beginning of Surat Al-Kahf will be protected from the Dajjal. [Muslim, Abu Dawud, An-Nasa’i and At-Tirmidhi]

No i dont think the cave is Gitmo, Allah knows best where the cave is. But i repeat what i said in the post the whereabouts of the cave is unimportant… what is important is taking lessons of the story of the sleepers of the cave and reflecting upon them

i found this very informative as i am just doing a short course on SURAH KAHF in Glasgow UK in Almeezan. This has helped me alot with the tafseer. I will let others know of this websight, may ALLAH let you continue with the good work.

Thank you so much for this explanation of such a beautiful Surah. Truly, it has cleared some misunderstandings that I had. As many people, I too, thought that the people of Ya’juj and Ma’juj were not humans. This wall will eventually be destroyed as mentioned in Al Quran Al Kareem, but wherever it is, it is not of great importance to us, as Allah who knows best, has not revealed it. We just have to believe in it.

There is a great lesson in this Surah as regards Moussa AS and Al Khidr. I would just like to draw on this lesson and transmit a small message. To truly benefit from the knowledge which Allah has bestowed on a person, you must trust that person and learns from him, not contradicts him and appear superior to him. Incidentally, this is an approach that the discipline of Karate teaches. For a new student to learn Karate, he must have trust in his teacher and possess a clean heart, so as to absorb what is being taught to him.

For the complete translation of this Surah, you might refer to this site:

The definition of the name al-Khidr as distinct from al-Khadir, actually means ‘the pot’. Khidr in fact is the original name given to the sign of Aquarius, but later re-named al-Dalw, ‘the well bucket’ sometime in the late 7th century. Al-Dalw, more accurately was the name given to the constellation of Pegasus, and relates to the Babylonian belief that the Gt. Square of Pegasus was the sacred house of the goat/fish god Ea/Enki, the place where the ‘eternal spring of fresh water’ called the Abzu, wells up filling the pot held by Aquarius and thus provide the earth with ‘merciful rain’. In early Islam, this Great Square would have been considered the ‘Heavenly counterpart of the Ka’ba’ in a word ‘Paradise’ or the House of Al’lah. It is clear that Mohammed who adopted the colour green as his personal emblem, identified himself with the legendary figure of al-Khidr, both servants of Al’lah. Moreover, it was probably al-Khidr and not Mohammed who rode up into the heavenly realms during his mystical flight on the back of the horse called Buraq. Buraq by the way is the name of one of the seven Jewish arch-angels who governed lightning called Buraq-iel.

Paul,
Muslims believe that the Qu’ran is the word of Allah so your suppositions about Astrology references to Al Khidr are interesting but seem to be the same or similar to the attempts made by Christian scholars from time to time to “explain away” the central fact that the Qu’ran is the mercy and miracle that it is. Isn’t it possible that Al Khidr’s true identity was misunderstood by the people who invented Astrology in the first place; hence, the “character’s” placement in the “heavens”.
As far as the reference to Judiasm as it concerns the name of its tradition’s arch-angels I really shouldn’t comment on that. Again the fact of the similarity between the name of the Prophet’s steed and that of the Arch-Angel Buraq-el do in no way change the story of the Prophet’s Miraj. As you are aware Bani Isra are People of the Book just as Christians are. I see no conflict here whatsoever.
From your comments I confess that I was unable to identify your believe system so I ask you the following questions so as to clear up my confusion about what traditions you hail from: From your traditions are angels always in human packaging or do they appear to humans in a variety of forms? In your traditions are humans and angels one and the same: one form the lesser of the more developed other? As a final comment I leave you with this; your concerns about the true identity of Al Khidr or the identity of the Prophet’s (SAW) steed were not expressed by either the members of Bani Isra or the Christians who had the privilege of asking the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) these and other questions at the time of the revelation of Al Kahf and the Prophet’s relating of the Miraj. I wonder why these questions didn’t concern the Prophet’s (SAW) inquisitors at that time? Maybe it had something to do with the fact that he knew things that they had either hidden or knew nothing of. What I would like to do is to invite you to study Islam and may you be guided by Allah (SWT) to the best of understandings.

Safiyah, Thank you kindly for your response which I really appreciate. On a personal note may I begin by declaring that although I was raised and educated in the UK I do not regard myself as a Christian, Budhist or a Jew, indeed I could never subscribe to any organised world religion that claims to have a monopoly on the truth. If anything I am a humanist but with a deep sense of the sacred, which I consider to be no one else business except my own. Therefore, all my comments on Islam are entirely personal and hopefully free of any doctrinal spin especially like those dreadful articles expressed on a number of Christian web sites. Furthermore, I have absolutely no belief or real interest in Astrology. Nonetheless, for some reason I am facinated by the historical roots of Islam and how it developed from out of its Pagan past. Incidently I have just finished reading the entire translation of the Qu’ran, begining with the Meccan suras followed by the ones cognized at Medina. Reading it in this order made me realise how deeply disappointed Prophet Mohamed must have felt when the Jewish elders at Medina rejected his claim to be the last of the Old Testament prophets. Mohamed’s reaction to this is telling, because he immediately changes the Q’ibla and later goes on to denounce the Jewish leaders for refusing to share with him the secrets of their religious knowledge. But didn’t the original Q’ibla point towards the ‘farthest mosque’ which I interpret as meaning the heavenly Ka’ba or the ‘Gt. Square of Pegasus’ and not as many moslems prefer to believe, Jerusalem. The Qu’ran makes it clear that the Prophet Mohamed originally directed his prayers to the night skies and that Al’lah granted his personal wish to pray towards Mecca instead. I have much to say on this extrordinary subject but time is against me. I will just leave you with this cogent thought which more or less sums up my position. ‘To believe in God is divine, but to believe in your beliefs is madness’!

hi sis, let me be brief, to start the Prophet (saws) never acted on his on except what Allah tell him. The reason Allah change the qibla is to tell the jews that the doors of mercy have been shut on them that nothing they have is connected to the heavens, then He went further to tell him to fast on ramaddan to be as different as possible from the jews.
and He could not be mad because of their knowledge for they questionned him with 3 expecting answers only a prophet would know not only cause of answers but also how he answered since there were some tricks to the questions. Allah says when He send down a surah some get guided by it but it also creates confusion in the heart in which there is a disease( hipocrisy, disbelief) and so forth. I admire your passion to know the truth, therefore i advise you to supplicate to the one God however you name him asking him to clear your heart of all diseases and take a bath on a nice quiet nite especially month of ramaddan (coming july this year) and reapproach the Qur’an . meaning not with a mind set but clear one. it is easy to find someone guilty if you already suspect them. May Allah guide you and when you are guided remember me in your du”a. love you. ma salam.

I am interesting in knowing which translation of the qur’an you are reading. I assume it is by a non muslim, as, as far as I am aware no muslim translation has been set in chronological order. Translations are merely interpretations of the meaning of the qur’an and not actually the qur’an itself, therefore they differ greatly.

Secondly if I could just point out that when reading the Qur’an u may not understand it correctly if you are not aware of the many sciences of the Qur’an. As well as this, the verses in the Qur’an are either self-explanatory, are elaborated by other verses or explained by ahadith (sayings or actions of the prophet). This is why if you want to understand the Qur’an properly it is best to refer to authentic commentaries. (ibn Kathir is probably the most popular and easiest to understand)

You say that you believe that the original qibla was the heavenly ka’bah or the square of Pegasus (I had to google that!!) which you probably got from this ayah:

Verily, We have seen the turning of your face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haram (2:144)

If you look at the commentary of this verse, you will understand that it is not referring to prayer:

Al-Bukhari collected this narration, while Muslim collected it using another chain of narrators. Muhammad bin Ishaq reported that Al-Bara’ narrated: Allah’s Messenger used to offer prayers towards Bayt Al-Maqdis (in Jerusalem), but would keep looking at the sky awaiting Allah’s command (to change the Qiblah). Then Allah revealed:

(Verily, We have seen the turning of your (Muhammad’s) face towards the heaven. Surely, We shall turn you to a Qiblah (prayer direction) that shall please you, so turn your face in the direction of Al-Masjid Al-Haram (at Makkah).) (2:144)

[Taken from Tafsir Ibn Kathir]

You find from this hadith that the prophet prayed towards Jerusalem, and the reference to him looking up at the sky, was him waiting for revelation, prayer and receiving revelations are two different things.

There are also a number of ahadith that affirm that the original ka’bah was Jerusalem.

Also, it was the Prophet’s wish to face the ka’bah rather than Jerusalem, not because of the Jews, but because he had just migrated to Medina, having faced much oppression in Makkah. Makkah was a very special place to the Prophet because (1) he was born there and (2) because of the ka’bah, the House of Allah built by Ibrahim. The Prophet felt sad leaving Makkah, saying that if he had not been opposed by the pagans he would never have left.

Although it was his wish to face the ka’bah in prayer he did not do so until he received revelation. So it was not his choice but it was a command from Allah.

Muhajirah and Paul,
To Muhajirah, Asalaamu Alakum, May Allah reward you with the good for your response to Paul. I learned so much from reading it and will accept it as the gift it was for me.
To Paul, I would like to take this opportunity that Allah has given me to encourage you to take Muhajirah and my suggestion and contemplate a commentary of the Qu’ran that has been vetted by far better scholars than the person who wrote that book you referred to. The author’s name escapes me but mashallah, I am sure a friend of mine, who is not a Muslim, shared that same book you mentioned with me. If one is looking for support for the proposition that the Qur’an is meaningless nonsense then allow that treatment and translation given in that book to be support. You don’t strike me as a person who wants that. You sound like someone who does not want to waste his time on nonsense. As a self styled rejector you sound like the kind of person that wants to understand exactly what he is rejecting. I must say that after reading it with my commentary on the Qu’ran handy I thanked Allah for the people that Allah allowed to share some of the Qur’an’s meaning in the only language I can read-English. May Allah guide you to the guidance that you are seeking that the first surah of the Qu’ran, Al-Fatiha, promises will follow it. The next surah, Al Baqara, proclaims:
“This is a Scripture whereof there is no doubt; a guidance unto those who ward off evil” (2:1)
The order that the Qu’ran was revealed was prefect as was its final order. These two surahs were not revealed back to back. Isn’t this something? One surah answering the other surah’s request so prefectly. I think it is.
Take the chance Paul and read it. Then visit an Islamic center that is near you and discuss what you have read with a Sheik. You will find, inshallah, courtesy and patience in anyone who you seek out with a sincere intention to increase your knowledge.
As an aside, I’m not sure whether you are aware of this or not but the Qu’ran’s order is the order that the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) actually recited it in after it was completely revealed so the book you have read is not unveiling any matter that Muslims have been unaware of for fourteen hundred years or so. Again I ask you Paul to ask yourself the following question: Why the people-the Shahaba-didn’t question some of the things that you find so “curious” today. Were they bewitched, listening to a mad man or following the tales of the ancients. You will find as you read surah Al Araf that each one of your concerns was raised by peoples of the past. What you are thinking and feeling about guidance is not novel or new. Again please “read”.

Muhajirah
Thank you for joining in on this discussion and for your comments. The translation of the Qu’ran I am currently using is by M. Abdel Haleem, Prof. of Islamic Studies, London and his book is published by Oxford University Press. There you will see that he has kept to the traditional order of the Suras as they are presented Qu’ran; it was simply my personal decision to read it otherwise. On the question of the site of the original K’abah, I thought the Qu’ran makes it quite clear that the first ever Sacred Mosque to be built was at Mecca on the instructions of the angel Gabriel to Abraham or possibly earlier, Adam. However, and I apologise for going on about this, but the building of the K’abah at Mecca must surely have been inspired by its celestial counterpart called ‘al-baytel-Mamur’ which in reality is undoubtedly the ‘Great Square of Pegasus’. This particular constellation could well be the 4th heavenly realm that forms part of the seven heavens mentioned in the Qu’ran, and guarded by the arch-angel Michael. Not too mystical for you I hope. Now this next piece may sound just as contentious, but I do get the feeling that the reason Prophet Mohammed championed the cause of that grand patriarch Abraham, was because of the similarity of the Arabic pronounciation (Ib-rahim) to the word ‘al-Rahim’, the Merciful One, which as every Moslem knows, is one of the ninety-nine names of Al’lah. However, it is well documented that Rahim can also mean ‘womb’ and there is plenty of evidence to suggest that it was even an ancient title of the pagan god of rain, al-Khidr. Given the importance of the rainy season and supply of fresh drinking water in the form of wells, springs and streams throughout the middle and near east it is not too surprising to find numerous references to water in the Qu’ran, indeed this fits in perfectly with Prophet Mohammed’s desription of Paradise, even providing ‘green cushions’. Which brings us back once again to al-Khidr/al Khadir – ‘the Green One’ and his connection with Aquarius ‘al Dalw’ lit. ‘the Well-bucket’ that was celebrated between the 12th and 1st month of the luna-solar year i.e. December/January. Might the Hajj have be timed to co-incide with the Winter Solstice? Until the advent of Islam, these two important months had always been linked to the seasons of the year, and are still known today as al-Hijjri and Muharam, This was a time for celebration, during which the Hajj traditionally took place. Fearing drought and deluge, it was only natural that the pagan polytheists who took part in the annual pilgramages to Mecca, would have constantly felt to be at the mercy of these astral deities whose seeming power was to control the elemental forces of nature. When it comes down to it, what Al’lah seems to be offering his followers is a straight choice between the fires of hell and the waters of paradise. It does rather look as if the fear of punishment appears to completely outweigh the promise of any heavenly reward. Is this a case where the stick is far more respected than the carrot ? I wonder.

Paul; as in Saul who was a Jew and opposed Jesus (pbuh) and then suddenly started loving Jesus (pbuh) once Jesus (pbuh) disappeared from the midst of humans in this world and then became “Paul”.
In fact the “Christianity” of today is “Paulism” as it was “Saint” Paul’s version of things that eventually got adopted in the Roman Empire.

Dear all, this “Paul character” is clearly here with an agenda. All his non-sense of astrology, hidden indications of Jewish superiority is but a waste of time. Anyone with any basic knowledge of Quran, Islam will realize that Islam destroyed all superstitions and pagan practices which were plauging Arabia and then eventually wherever Islam reached.

Paul, if that is your real name, get a life! And stop your slander!

You are clearly desperately trying to equate Islam to a pagan or polytheistic faith because you burn inside that Muslims love Abraham, Noah, Jesus, Moses and Mohammed (peace be upon all of them) and that Islam is the fastest growing monotheistic faith in the world despite numerous attempts to malign it with garbage such as the one you regurgetate.

Ponder on yours and every human’s humble beginnings and eventual humble endings and you will stop playing with words to push your own ulterior (and sick) motives.

If you don’t like Muslims, then say so, if you have a problem with Islam, then say so, instead of trying to lie your way out of it by saying that Islam is what it isn’t! how ridiculous are you.

You are a joke and soon you will return to The Creator. I am yet to see any human who lived forever.

I am surprised how everyone is being so tolerant with you and how you continue to abuse their generosity and hospitality.

You know deep down why you are here. To spread the filth you were trained in. You don’t impress anyone.

Abdullah, Thank you for your directness and forthrightness in resonse to my last letter. Please understand that it is not my wish to denegrate your faith or slander Islam, or for that matter any other religion, and never will be. On the contrary, I have the highest respect for people of real faith; indeed one of my lodgers is a committed moslem from Shri Lanka called Mohammed who I greatly admire. Over the months we have spent many hours discussing the origins and meaning of the Qu’ran. In all that time I cannot honestly remember either of us ever getting defensive about this or worse still accusing each other of slander. All credit to him and his family I guess, for he displayed great humility and compassion. So Abdullah, in answer to your question as to whether I have a problem with moslems and Islam, the answer is a definite NO. But, and I hesitate to say this, I think you might have a problem coping with some of my opinions on this subject; or is it perhaps the way I express them that you find so challenging? May I just add that my general approach towards furthering my understanding of religion, and I quote from the Qu’ran, is to “…Seek knowledge from the cradle to the grave”. Just as many of the great arab scientists and philosophers in the past have done; who were never afraid to explore the unknown. Why should we not examine our cultural and religious heritage too? Surely, knowledge is the great purifer in this case, and furthermore it is through search for God and our love of what He has created that will draw him near. Not fear! When we can fully appreciate this and value the wholeness of life, then and only then will God reveal Himself. Remember, “the world is as you are!”

I know this is like 3 almost 4 years later, but I just wanted to say that I can definately see that Paul was never trying to “slander” Islam…just very very VERY opinionated (lol). I think this is something that many people who do not follow Islam do…they try to form links, and question and judge. Its kind of like in a speech contest where everyone has a different speech and the edjudicators have to critically judge because everyone cannot turn out the winners. I am a muslim so I have already made my decision but Paul hasn’t so I would encourage him to continue asking questions and I wouldn’t judge his intentions, because when you question it makes you HUMAN and is it not true that many people who have entered into the fold of Islam came to do so because of the very questions they asked. The reason why i chose to comment was not because I wanted to justify Paul’s questions but because I wanted to point out something very important…we need to stop judging people who are not Muslim. Yes, sometimes their intentions are to “slander” but not always. And if that is their intention we should learn to approach it calmly and without anger because that just makes them believe what they already assume: that Muslims are aggressive and extremist people and of course the ever-present INTOLERANT card. Perhaps if we treat the matter kindly it will be a means that Allah causes them to enter the fold of Islam. I noticed how Paul used a formally respectable tone thanking both Safiyah and Muhajirah for their contribution. I didn’t think it was “slander” maybe just argumentative. If we read say a christian blog yet we didn’t believe in their ideologiies, wouldn’t we argue with them as well until we reached a conclusion. On a brighter note I was so happy to see how both Safiyah and Muhajirah entertained the discussion…in an calm and repectful manner which further emphasises my point…notice how Paul continued the discussion with them but the discussion ceased after Abdullah’s comment. I am not trying to say that Abdullah’s comments are wrong because I know that it’s hard not to question their intentions when the majority of them seem to always do so in a distasteful and arrogant manner (kind of like the motives that the Jews had when they presented the questions menioned in this Tafseer…If I am correct) but I just think that we should exercise coolness as the Prophet did so that we don’t “chase” them away per say. We should accept questions as it forms part of our duty to teach people about our Deen and it helps us to learn as well. Remember Allah can guide whom he wills to Islam but he also chooses whom he wills to be HIS followers.
Sorry for the looooong comment, but i swear its the end now (lol). Oh and before anyone starts harassing me…IT’S JUST MY OPINION, i am not JUDGING anyone.
Wasalaam.

oooohhh!! I wrote this comment before I read the rest so I didn’t see the whole Paul/Jadd…whatever it was. Ok so i see that the argument through the rest of the comments got abit out of my realms…lol didn’t understand most of it. So although Paul/Jadd’s intention may be quite out of the “I am just finding out about Islam because I want to understand it” and more of a “I need to research this because I have already made up my mind and I feel strongly about it and all these muslims are wrong” (lol) however i am still of the opinion that we should not approach it angrily but with a cool head as I see Linda and others have done. I hope that Paul or Jadd or whoever he was gets the guidance or whatever he’s looking for. Seriously people islam makes things so simple, I don’t know why we make it so complicated. Just live, and breathe, and be happy with the blessings of Allah and being a Muslim. And if you aren’t a muslim and continue to ask and ask then there will always be someone to answer and answer because we are happy with our religion and if that doesn’t EVER satisfy your reasoning then only Allah can give you guidence if he wills.
Allah says in the quran “And when you recite the Qur’an, We put an invisible veil between you and those who do not believe in the Hereafter.”[Qur’an al-Isra’ 17; 45]
A group of the Mufassirin explained this verse to mean that the aversion to and heedlessness of the Qur’an and Islam on the part of the disbelievers is the result of a barrier that was placed on their hearts by Allah, making them unable to comprehend or realize any of the wisdom contained therein. This was the explanation of Qatadah, as well as al-Hasan al-Basri. may Allah guide us all.
Wasalaam

[It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for ((Allah)’s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him).] surah3; aya 159

There are so many secrets in the Quran that we still do not know and understand, like for example the chapters that starts with the mysterious letters such as “ya-seen”, “ha-meen” etc…
Yet because alhamdollilah of our pure faith we do not ask, and we do not need to know because we already are believers we do not need convincing anymore, people like Paul if i may say still question and search for more clues, “May Allah Yihdeeh eventually”, maybe one day he will discover something with his search, in the past century scientists are discovering things and proving things that were mentioned in the Quran 1400 years ago, which proves to them truly that the Quran is the word of Allah “swt”, i stress again proves to THEM, not us.

As to Paul; It’s nice to see a person very rich with information; i speak Arabic and didn’t know the origin of “Khadir”, it’s nice to exchange information, but the question here is to actually ask yourself, how authentic are your references? the Bible for example have like what? 6-7 versions? it’s nice to read your views, but i realize first that it’s all assumptions (only Allah knows what’s right and whats wrong), secondly some of your views opposes the quran, for example when you say things like “god of rain- al khadir” (astaghfiro allah) such things are clearly wrong to assume. i respect you for taking the time to read the translation of the Quran, but reading it once or twice is not enough to claim that you fully understand it, or give you the ability to lay down assumptions, i myself been reading the Quran for maybe 30 years, study most chapters in school years, reading it from cover to cover every Ramadan, and still i am learning something new every time i read it, but as a true believer would never attempt to assume the things you assumed simply because reading it so many times will implant firmly in your mind and heart the oneness of Allah and there is no other god worthy of worshiping but him, thats one example of the mistake you made about assuming al-khadir is the god of rain.

i wont debate more, for now all i can say is that it’s not me nor anyone here could open your eyes, only Allah can guide you.

Linda, Thank you for wise comments. May I just say that for some, belief is primary and from that comes understanding – hopefully; for others, and I could include myself here, it is otherwise, that is, through our understanding, belief becomes possible. Or is it just a matter of blind faith or desire for truth that everything in Islam is true and for all time?
My other concern before I fully commit myself to Islam is that I might end up confusing the messenger, i.e. the Prophet with the message, al -Qu’ran. Which do you think is more important, ‘The singer or the Song?’ It’s a bit like asking me to believe in Shakespeare before I can fully appreciate his plays or Beethoven before I can enjoy his piano sonatas. No one could possibly doubt their genius , but we are at least free to read and interpret his works. Any thoughts?

Jadd, indeed through understanding, belief becomes possible, we were not born as believers, we’ve been taught to understand first before we believe, I see this now though my daughter’s way of learning, she is only 5, when she draws something she knows it’s herself who drew the picture, then she comes to me and asks me all sort of questions like “so who made the clouds, mountains, sun, moon, even the buildings and the computers, why people die, why are we alive and why is her Barbie doll not?” its amazing how a little child wonders about everything. Now if I come and tell her that the sun just suddenly appeared out of no where, and suddenly there were clouds, she won’t believe me of course, she knows for a fact as a little child that nothing could suddenly just be there, there must be a creator!

The other day some friends and I were discussing some internet problems in our region, then we understood that the main problem was in the undersea cables, that was the first time I ever heard of it and how the world is connected through undersea cables, I had goose bumps, and was amazed, can you say the cables were created by itself? No, you’d tell me the details of how it was made by men! Come to think of something more complicated than those cables, a human body, how you breath involuntary, how your heart pumps involuntary, how every organ functions and isn’t something?! How can something this complicated just come to exists?

The Quran contains so many verses about the creation of mankind, details that were revealed 1400 years ago, which modern science proved to be true.

Some verses:
12. Verily We created man from a product of wet earth (clay).
13. Then placed him as a drop (of sperm) in a safe lodging.
14. Then We fashioned the drop into a clot, then We fashioned the clot into a little lump, then We fashioned the little lump into bones, then clothed the bones with flesh, and then produced it as another creation. So blessed be Allah, the Best of creators!
15. Then Behold! After that you surely will die.
16. Then, on the Day of Resurrection you will be raised (again).
(Quran 23:12-16)
78. And Allah brought you forth from the wombs of your mothers knowing nothing, and gave you hearing and sight and hearts that you might give thanks.
(Quran 16:78)
19. He brings forth the living from the dead, and He brings forth the dead from the living, and He revives the earth after its death. And like so you will be brought forth (from death).
20. And of His Signs is this: He created you from dust, and then, behold you are human beings, ranging widely!
21. And of His Signs is this: He created for you mates from yourselves that you might find rest in them, and He ordained between you love and mercy. Behold! Herein indeed are Signs for those who reflect.
22. And of His Signs are the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations of your languages and colours. Behold! Herein indeed are signs for those who know.
23. And of His Signs is your sleep by night and by day, and your seeking of His Bounty. Behold! Herein indeed are signs for those who heed.
24. And of His Signs is this: He shows you the lightning for fear and for hope, and sends down water from the sky, and thereby revives the earth after its death. Behold! Herein indeed are signs for those who understand.
(Quran 30:19-24)

Now about your question (the singer or the song), you need to know that Quran isn’t the words of prophet Mohammad (pbuh), if you don’t want to appreciate the prophet’s mission as a messenger then you should read the Quran first, The Quran withstands the test of time and scrutiny. No one can dispute the truth of this book. It speaks about past history and turns out right. It speaks about the future in prophecies and it turns out right. It mentions details of physical phenomena which were not known to people at the time; yet later scientific discoveries prove that the Quran was right all along. Every other book needs to be revised to accord with modern knowledge. The Quran alone is never contradicted by a newly discovered scientific fact.

For us this is not blind faith, suppose that your belief is right (i.e. there is no God), then what are we (who believe in Allah) going to lose after death? But on the other hand what will happen to you if we are right? Nothing but hell. So make your choice wisely either believe in Allah, or stay blind, stay hopeless in this life without knowing where you came from, where are you going to or why are you in this life.
I say again, whatever be your decision, we have given you the message but it is as only Allah who can guide you as he said:
80. Behold! You can not make the dead to hear, nor can you make the deaf to hear the call, when they have turned to flee.
81. Nor can you guide the blind out of their straying. You can make none to hear, except those who believe in Our Revelations, and who have surrendered.
(Quran 27:80-81)

Congratulations! How very astute you are. Of course as you may know,….’the Walrus was Paul’, to quote John lennon, who happens to be a hero of mine! And if I may be allowed to quote another hero, St. Paul who said, ‘He who doubts nothing, knows nothing.’ So I will just have to keep on asking the same old questions until I get the right answers. The trick I suppose is to try and ask the right questions, and at the right time. Well Linda, I watched the video you reccomended just now and frankly, I was very troubled by it. The speaker reminded me of all those dreadful born again telly evangelists who peddle their messianic message over US airwaves. For me it highlighted the difficulties I have between public and private acts of worship. And believe me there is a big difference. People like yourself perhaps find real inspiration listening to this chap and others like him, but then many people found listening to Billy Graham, Osama Bin Laden, and Hitler equally inspiring. Just think of the Nurenburg rallies in 1935 and the effct it had on the audiences. Sorry, but it’s much too insidious and emotionally manipulative for my liking. As I have already mentioned earlier, I prefer to keep my personal beliefs private and I draw no succour whatsoever from public declarations of faith. Strange how many of the great religions put so much faith in their sacred texts, believing them to be the absolute word of God; I’m thinking here of the Vedas, the Torah and the Gospels. Having said that I must add that I greatly enjoy listening to arabic devotional songs. In the meantime I do really appreciate what you have to say and I thank you for it.

Thank you for your nice compliments, you are welcome any time to ask questions, and I would be glad to help if I can. I say if, because I am neither a scholar nor a scientist, I am only a simple mom living a simple life, and although I was born and raised in a Muslim country, I would sum up my real commitment to Islam for only a year. I am very cautious with what I have to say, and I hope Allah forgives me if I make any mistake.
Regarding the video, I was not inspired by the way he declared his faith, not even by his own words but by what the Muslim man told him about how we got faith and proof, and the more you have of one the more you get of the other, because that’s what’s happening to me in reality for the past year. I suppose we cannot carry on with posting here because we will be way out of Muhajirah’s post subject. Any ideas? Well I am willing to do this just because of your intention of fully committing yourself to Islam as you said above, but you got concerns, which I hope inshallah with patience in learning and understanding can eventually eliminate those concerns.

25:1 Blessed is He who sent down the criterion to His servant, that it may be an admonition to all creatures;

25:2 He to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: no son has He begotten, nor has He a partner in His dominion: it is He who created all things, and ordered them in due proportions.

25:3 Yet have they taken, besides him, gods that can create nothing but are themselves created; that have no control of hurt or good to themselves; nor can they control death nor life nor resurrection.

25:4 But the misbelievers say: “Naught is this but a lie which he has forged, and others have helped him at it.” In truth it is they who have put forward an iniquity and a falsehood.

25:5 And they say: “Tales of the ancients, which he has caused to be written: and they are dictated before him morning and evening.”

25:6 Say: “The (Qur’an) was sent down by Him who knows the mystery (that is) in the heavens and the earth: verily He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

25:7 And they say: “What sort of an apostle is this, who eats food, and walks through the streets? Why has not an angel been sent down to him to give admonition with him?

25:8 “Or (Why) has not a treasure been bestowed on him, or why has he (not) a garden for enjoyment?” The wicked say: “Ye follow none other than a man bewitched.”

25:9 See what kinds of comparisons they make for thee! But they have gone astray, and never a way will they be able to find!

25:10 Blessed is He who, if that were His will, could give thee better (things) than those,- Gardens beneath which rivers flow; and He could give thee palaces (secure to dwell in).

25:11 Nay they deny the hour (of the judgment to come): but We have prepared a blazing fire for such as deny the hour:

25:12 When it sees them from a place fAr off, they will hear its fury and its ranging sigh.

25:13 And when they are cast, bound together into a constricted place therein, they will pLead for destruction there and then!

25:14 “This day plead not for a single destruction: plead for destruction oft-repeated!”

25:15 Say: “Is that best, or the eternal garden, promised to the righteous? for them, that is a reward as well as a goal (of attainment).

25:16 “For them there will be therein all that they wish for: they will dwell (there) for aye: A promise to be prayed for from thy Lord.”

25:17 The day He will gather them together as well as those whom they worship besides Allah, He will ask: “Was it ye who let these My servants astray, or did they stray from the Path themselves?”

25:18 They will say: “Glory to Thee! not meet was it for us that we should take for protectors others besides Thee: But Thou didst bestow, on them and their fathers, good things (in life), until they forgot the Message: for they were a people (worthless and) lost.”

25:19 (Allah will say): “Now have they proved you liars in what ye say: so ye cannot avert (your penalty) nor (get) help.” And whoever among you does wrong, him shall We cause to taste of a grievous Penalty.

25:20 And the apostles whom We sent before thee were all (men) who ate food and walked through the streets: We have made some of you as a trial for others: will ye have patience? for Allah is One Who sees (all things).

25:21 Such as fear not the meeting with Us (for Judgment) say: “Why are not the angels sent down to us, or (why) do we not see our Lord?” Indeed they have an arrogant conceit of themselves, and mighty is the insolence of their impiety!

25:22 The Day they see the angels,- no joy will there be to the sinners that Day: The (angels) will say: “There is a barrier forbidden (to you) altogether!”

25:23 And We shall turn to whatever deeds they did (in this life), and We shall make such deeds as floating dust scattered about.

25:24 The Companions of the Garden will be well, that Day, in their abode, and have the fairest of places for repose.

25:25 The Day the heaven shall be rent asunder with clouds, and angels shall be sent down, descending (in ranks),-

25:26 That Day, the dominion as of right and truth, shall be (wholly) for (Allah) Most Merciful: it will be a Day of dire difficulty for the Misbelievers.
Almulku yawma-ithin alhaqqu lilrrahmaniwakana yawman AAala alkafireena AAaseeran

25:27 The Day that the wrong-doer will bite at his hands, he will say, “Oh! would that I had taken a (straight) path with the Apostle!

25:28 “Ah! woe is me! Would that I had never taken such a one for a friend!

25:29 “He did lead me astray from the Message (of Allah) after it had come to me! Ah! the Evil One is but a traitor to man!” Then the Apostle will say:

25:31 Thus have We made for every prophet an enemy among the sinners: but enough is thy Lord to guide and to help.

25:32 Those who reject Faith say: “Why is not the Qur’an revealed to him all at once? Thus (is it revealed), that We may strengthen thy heart thereby, and We have rehearsed it to thee in slow, well-arranged stages, gradually.

25:33 And no question do they bring to thee but We reveal to thee the truth and the best explanation (thereof).

25:34 Those who will be gathered to Hell (prone) on their faces,- they will be in an evil plight, and, as to Path, most astray.

25:35 (Before this,) We sent Moses The Book, and appointed his brother Aaron with him as minister;

25:36 And We command: “Go ye both, to the people who have rejected our Signs:” And those (people) We destroyed with utter destruction.

25:37 And the people of Noah,- when they rejected the apostles, We drowned them, and We made them as a Sign for mankind; and We have prepared for (all) wrong-doers a grievous Penalty;-

25:38 As also ‘Ad and Thamud, and the Companions of the Rass, and many a generation between them.

25:39 To each one We set forth Parables and examples; and each one We broke to utter annihilation (for their sins).
Wakullan darabna lahu al-amthalawakullan tabbarna tatbeeran

25:40 And the (Unbelievers) must indeed have passed by the town on which was rained a shower of evil: did they not then see it (with their own eyes)? But they fear not the Resurrection.

25:41 When they see thee, they treat thee no otherwise than in mockery: “Is this the one whom Allah has sent as an apostle?”

25:42 “He indeed would well-nigh have misled us from our gods, had it not been that we were constant to them!” – Soon will they know, when they see the Penalty, who it is that is most misled in Path!

25:43 Seest thou such a one as taketh for his god his own passion (or impulse)? Couldst thou be a disposer of affairs for him?

25:44 Or thinkest thou that most of them listen or understand? They are only like cattle;- nay, they are worse astray in Path.

25:45 Hast thou not turned thy vision to thy Lord?- How He doth prolong the shadow! If He willed, He could make it stationary! then do We make the sun its guide;

25:46 Then We draw it in towards Ourselves,- a contraction by easy stages.

25:47 And He it is Who makes the Night as a Robe for you, and Sleep as Repose, and makes the Day (as it were) a Resurrection.

25:48 And He it is Who sends the winds as heralds of glad tidings, going before His mercy, and We send down pure water from the sky,-

25:49 That with it We may give life to a dead land, and slake the thirst of things We have created,- cattle and men in great numbers.

25:50 And We have distributed the (water) amongst them, in order that they may celebrate (our) praises, but most men are averse (to aught) but (rank) ingratitude.

25:51 Had it been Our Will, We could have sent a warner to every centre of population.

25:52 Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness, with the (Qur’an).

25:53 It is He Who has let free the two bodies of flowing water: One palatable and sweet, and the other salt and bitter; yet has He made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed.

25:54 It is He Who has created man from water: then has He established relationships of lineage and marriage: for thy Lord has power (over all things).

25:55 Yet do they worship, besides Allah, things that can neither profit them nor harm them: and the Misbeliever is a helper (of Evil), against his own Lord!

25:56 But thee We only sent to give glad tidings and admonition.

25:57 Say: “No reward do I ask of you for it but this: that each one who will may take a (straight) Path to his Lord.”

25:58 And put thy trust in Him Who lives and dies not; and celebrate his praise; and enough is He to be acquainted with the faults of His servants;-

25:59 He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): Allah Most Gracious: ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things).

25:60 When it is said to them, “Adore ye (Allah) Most Gracious!”, they say, “And what is (Allah) Most Gracious? Shall we adore that which thou commandest us?” And it increases their flight (from the Truth).

25:61 Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;

25:62 And it is He Who made the Night and the Day to follow each other: for such as have the will to celebrate His praises or to show their gratitude.

25:63 And the servants of (Allah) Most Gracious are those who walk on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say, “Peace!”;

25:64 Those who spend the night in adoration of their Lord prostrate and standing;

25:65 Those who say, “Our Lord! avert from us the Wrath of Hell, for its Wrath is indeed an affliction grievous,-

25:66 “Evil indeed is it as an abode, and as a place to rest in”;

25:67 Those who, when they spend, are not extravagant and not niggardly, but hold a just (balance) between those (extremes);

25:68 Those who invoke not, with Allah, any other god, nor slay such life as Allah has made sacred except for just cause, nor commit fornication; – and any that does this (not only) meets punishment.

25:69 (But) the Penalty on the Day of Judgment will be doubled to him, and he will dwell therein in ignominy,-

25:70 Unless he repents, believes, and works righteous deeds, for Allah will change the evil of such persons into good, and Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful,

25:71 And whoever repents and does good has truly turned to Allah with an (acceptable) conversion;-
Waman taba waAAamila salihanfa-innahu yatoobu ila Allahi mataban

25:72 Those who witness no falsehood, and, if they pass by futility, they pass by it with honourable (avoidance);

25:73 Those who, when they are admonished with the Signs of their Lord, droop not down at them as if they were deaf or blind;

25:74 And those who pray, “Our Lord! Grant unto us wives and offspring who will be the comfort of our eyes, and give us (the grace) to lead the righteous.”

25:75 Those are the ones who will be rewarded with the highest place in heaven, because of their patient constancy: therein shall they be met with salutations and peace,

25:76 Dwelling therein;- how beautiful an abode and place of rest!

25:77 Say (to the Rejecters): “My Lord is not uneasy because of you if ye call not on Him: But ye have indeed rejected (Him), and soon will come the inevitable (punishment)!”

25:40 And the (Unbelievers) must indeed have passed by the town on which was rained a shower of evil: did they not then see it (with their own eyes)? But they fear not the Resurrection.
——————————————–
been to Naples, Italy?

A boy onced asked his father what the benifit was of reading the Quraan over and over again. The father kept quite but instaed asked his son to fetch water from the river using an old bucket.

The boy jumped up and ran to the stream to fetch the water. On his way back he noticed that the bucket had holes in it and that all the water seeped out. He turn back and went back to the river. This time he decided to run abit faster hoping that he would return with at least some water left over in the bucket. However, to his disapointment, all the water seeped out again. He tried this over again and again without any success.

Finally, he decided to return to his father with the empty bucket. He explained to his father that he did was not able to fetch the water as the bucket was full of holes.

His father smiled at him and replied, “You see my son, we might never understand why we do things over and over but take a look at the bucket you have in your hand.”

The boy looked at the bucket and was surprised to see it glowing as if it was brand new. The father explained that reading the Quraan over and over is simply to prify the spirit.

MAY ALLAH, grant us the oppurtunity to read this noble book daily.

PAUL, I understand that you are seeking knowledge but spiritualty is of greater importance. Inner paece and tranquility that this Noble Book gives us is unexplainable.

Then why does the Quran constantly urge us to use our reason? With respect, it seems to me that all the arguements put forward so far in response to any of my comments has been based entirely on blind faith and theological dogmas. I see no independence of mind being exercised in any of this. The Prophet Mohammed was clearly a radical thinker and quite unafraid to express the truth as he understood it, so why should we not follow his good example, and assert our unique God given intelligence. Time to let go of all our terrors and begin to enjoy the fullness of life. After all, the pupose of life is the expansion of happiness; life is here to enjoy! This constant fear of commiting apostasy coupled with the threat of the eternal fires of hell is so depressing and quite frankly medaeival and only results in spiritual poverty. Surely it is time to extinguish the fire of anger with the cool waters of wisdom.

Is Surah Al-Kahf, THAT cave?
Archaeologists in Rihab, Jordan, say they have discovered a cave that could be the world’s oldest Christian church…
In the Holy Bible, Lucas speaks about 70….
The BBC has reported in its new section that Archaeologists in Rihab, Jordan, say they have discovered a cave that could be the world’s oldest Christian church. Dating to the period AD33-70, the underground chapel would have served as both a place of worship and a home. It is claimed that it was originally used by a group of 70 persecuted Christians who fled from Jerusalem.

To Jadd,
well when you wrote “life is here to enjoy and that the purpose of life is the expansion of happiness” I am instantly reminded of the famous jurist Jeremy Bentham’s theory of utiliitarianism. You know I believe that you got it wrong. Allah has favoured us by inhaling life into our soul and that is why we should always be grateful to Allah. We should always bear in mind that our life is subject to a test whose results would be proclaimed on the Day of Judgement. Having said so, it does not mean at all that muslims live a life of persistent fear or dread…no…not at all. By living our lives in the way prescribed by Allah in the noble Qur’an and following the teachings of the prophet Muhammad (SAW), we are sure to enjoy life peacefully while at the same time being aware that this life is not the real life. Had the very purpose of life been the expansion of happiness then ultimately each and every person would develop into egoistic creatures and I’m sure the rest you are well aware of… I believe that the purpose of life is to maybe the expansion of Allah’s “happiness”, that is, if for instance I sacrifice a portion of my food (though I may have liked to eat the whole lot) to a poor person, Allah will be happy, so will be the poor person and ultimately I’ll also be happy since in the far back of my mind, I know if not believe that one day I will be rewarded for this small good action.

To Shoreh,
Of course, because to give is also to recieve, and yet it is far better to give spontaneously and without expecting any acknowledgement or personal reward. This is true charity; it just comes effortlessly, innocently from the level of a full heart, without feeling any sense of loss. Like the rich man after giving alms to the poor, who does not even bother to count how much money he has left. To help others in need is natural. But to perform a good action simply on the grounds that you might enjoy divine reward is just your way of ‘feathering your heavenly nest’. How arrogant and egotistical is that!? Anyway, life here on planet earth is just as real as anywhere else you care to name and deserves to be appreciated and enriched by our prescence.

The Significance of Surah Kahf
(The first Ten Aayahs {part one})
Surah Kahf has a lot of significance but unfortunately very few scholars have actually understood it . I would like to share in this message a strong relation between the fourth and second+third aayah .In the second +third aayah of the surah Allah SWT tells prophet Mohammed SAWS to warn people of a severe war which will happen by Allah’s will . The word Baasan shadeedan refers to a severe war not a severe punishment as many scholars have interpretated it wrongly . The word Baasa which comes in the Quran means hardships like famine , hunger etc , but when it comes as Baasan it means war . The second aayah is followed by the fourth aayah which warns a community of people of saying that Allah has begotten a son (present day christians) . These two aayahs in a way reciprocate each other as they suggest this very dogma of saying that god has begotten a son will lead the world into a severe war . History has answered this very fact . After Isa Alayhes Salaam’s alleged crucificion it was st.paul who changed what Isa AS preached . There were three basic deviations in his preaching :
1) That Isa AS is Allah SWT’S begotten son . Just like a donkey’s son is a donkey and a human’s son is a human henceforth god’s son is also god.
2) To preach this dogma he finished logic from the foundation of religion by introducing the trinity concept . Surprsingly the word ‘trinity’ doesnt appear anywhere in the bible.
3) Destroyed Musa AS’s sharia . Isa AS himself said in the sermon on mount that he has not come to destroy law and he is looking for the lost sheeps of the house of israel . To preach this newly innovated religion paul realised that Musa AS’s sharia will be very hard for the non-israelis to accept henceforth he destroyed it and gave the pope complete control to order make things haram or halal as he wishes.
He also preached the falsehood fact that by dying on the cross he has absolved the human sin so whoever accepts him as his saviour he will be saved.
This lead to the spread of Paul’s version of christianity like wildfire in Europe and the climax of the situation came when constantine a mighty king of europe accepted Christianity . At the same time there was a significant boom of science in greece which lead to people asking questions about false picturisation of geography and scientific logic in the bible . Scientific thought and study was then declared Forbidden by Roman Ceaser Justinian as it contradicted the bible and henceforth anyone found studying science was harshly dealt with.
After learning science from the greeks , arabs then started preaching science in spain and via the universities of spain science started coming back into europe . Since science contradicted the bible and the pope it lead to the formation of protestant version of christianity.
This very protestant version of christianity of today has its foundations on scientific development , material worship , money worship , carnal pleasure etc etc and has thrown the concept of soul (rooh) and god into oblivion simply because it was formed with severe hatred towards god as its basis . This version of christianity also has two foundations :
1) We dont know if there is a god or heaven or hell or hereafter but world does exist . Explore it , understand how it functions , dig out its secrets and try controlling it .
2) We dont know if there is soul or not but the body exists . Live for its pleasures and enjoy with it.
This version of christianity is what that has lead to a new world order lead by a man made civilisation where the divine law sent in the holy books to govern has been thrown out . Human Soverignty , Democracy , Freedom of sexes and a powerful level of supreme scientific development and opening of scientific secrets (for eg human cloning , artficial rain , beautiful vegetation in barren deserts of Israel , Saudi Arabia , Abu Dhabi etc etc) . The scientific development which the world has witnessed in the past 1500 years or so is not bad but its very basis has been the rejection of god and soul (Protestanism) .
Now this is the very civilization and concept and thought that has brought this world to the doorstep of a third world war . Particulary the events of the past 7 years has lead to a clash of two thoughts . A thought whose very basis is rejection of god , soul , material worship , carnal pleasure and another thought which is quite the opposite . So this is the warning that Allah SWT has foretold to prophet Mohammed SAWS that a severe war will approach the world if people do not revert away from this innovated dogma that Allah SWT has begotten a son and the warning moves further in the 6th aayah where allah swt is telling prophet SAWS that if you come to know the various chain of events (that has happened ) which will follow because of this dogma which will lead upto this catatostrophic war you might just commit suicide out of shock .
Inshallah God willing i will share some more facts about this Surah in another message blog in the future.

To Jadd,
Yes to help others is indeed natural but i believe that if Allah had not mentioned about the divine reward flowing from a good deed then I bet there would still havebeen people donating or giving charity. No the real charity is not when the rich man gives to the poor man without bothering to count how much is left – that’s utopia my dear (I wonder whether we could even call him the “rich man”). Charity is when you give to somebody in need without boasting about it of course and the purpose of giving being that you earnestly want that person to benefit and that God be pleased by your good deed (and ultimately you get what you deserve – THE REWARD) – There’s nothing “egoistic” in that – it;s just that you are facing the realitites of reality.!

To Shoreh,
Charity as you may know, starts at home, which I take to mean that we must learn to regard other people in terms of our own self. It is not by doing good that we become good but only by our being good that we automatically behave well to others. Another way of putting this is never to do unto others anything that we would not like done to ourselves. Nonetheless, as the good man once once said…’we must first deserve then desire!’ Sadly, there are many who claim to be charitable, and earnestly believe that this will ensure them a place in heaven. Yet, when they prostate themselves before their Lord, it is with an empty heart!
Only when the heart is full of love and happiness does prayer become meaningful and reach the Creator. This is like the branch when the fruit is fully ripe, it naturally bends under its own weight and bows down to touch the ground.

to jadd/ paul
please stop your nonsense
you are clearly a great communicator, religiously educated.
how good is all this if you are hiding from yourself the truth.

“enjoyment” as you say is yes part of the process of life but not the main reason. lifes a “test” and in this we must study to be successful for when the result comes. of course we cannot retake the test to go heaven or hell . the reward for unbelieving people would be hell as a present from GOD.

we all know all other religion failed so far and only islam remains today
Christians- innovative / changed text
so the propose for all other religious people as they see is try to “help” (as they think) to become modernized and unreligious.

“the world is as you are!” which is a common word “Maharishi” a hindu leader. they believe in enjoying life etc
well think about it happiness comes from within concept. who gives the happiness?. (most wealthy people are sad.)
answer: not a surprise “Allah” the creator of everything.

BTW everyone recite surat al Kahf on fridays so you can get Noor from Allah until next Friday.

A fool is managable and easy to deal with! A stubborn person is managble and easy to deal with! But a Stubborn Fool is impossible to manage and deal with!

So my dear brother and sisters, leave people like paul to be dealt by Allah (SWT), their theory will be proven right very soon. Do not waste time for such fools!

My suggestion to paul is: Keep acquiring ´knowledge´ and believe ur ownself that u are the ´most knowledgeble´ person. May be you´ll find some fools around who may give you credit for which u are dying for. For the true believers in islam, you are no more than a FOOL. So, if u think, you´ll be able to divert some people from truth simply by writing ur stupid ideas, then you are wasting your time!

Alhamdolilah I enjoyed learning the finer points of this surah. I believe it contains with in its context meanings that the believers, Jews, Christians, and Muslims ought to benefit from. However, I am curiuos as to where that famous wall is built, and who the Gog and Magog really are……..

prophet muhammad sws said: wisdom is the stray of the believers, who has the right to it where ever it may be found.

Omar Farooq, That’s easy!
I refer of course to The Great Wall of Gorgan which is over a thousand years older than the Great Wall of China. It is the greatest monument of its kind between central Europe and China and it may be the longest brick, or stone, wall ever built in the ancient world – and yet few people today have ever heard of it.

The barrier consists of a wall, 155 kilometres long and 6 to 10 metres wide, along the length of which are located a number of fortresses. The wall is made of standardized bricks, fired in kilns along the line of the wall.
This wall starts from the Caspian coast, circles north of Gonbade Kavous, continues towards the northwest, and vanishes behind the Pishkamar Mountains. The 40 fortresses, generally square in shape, were built about the same period.
A similar Sasanian defense wall and fortification was built on the opposite side of the Caspian Sea at the port of Derbent and beyond. Where the Great Wall of Gorgan continues into the Sea at the Gulf of Gorgan, on the far side of the Caspian emerges from the Sea the great wall of Caucasus at Derbent, complete with its extraordinarily well preserved Sasanian fort. Hope this helps answer your question.

yes the quran does tell us to use reason, but it doesnt say speculate and worry about where names like ‘al-khidr’ came from or why the qibla is in the direction it is in!. Reason as in how life originated, maybe what is the probability of a single celled organism existing by itself?. The quran gives many examples of scientific facts about life being aquatic, expanding universe, orbits of the planets etc which could not have been known / proven at that time, least by a shephard who was illiterate.

Paul,

LOL, just because the prophet saw description of jannah entailed green cusions, it does NOT mean its related to al-khidr (the green one) and his connection with aqautrius, what nonsence!!!, the grass is green, so are trees, plants, some fish, stones and even eyes!.

‘the Well-bucket’ that was celebrated between the 12th and 1st month of the luna-solar year i.e. December/January. Might the Hajj have be timed to co-incide with the Winter Solstice? Until the advent of Islam, these two important months had always been linked to the seasons of the year, and are still known today as al-Hijjri and Muharam, This was a time for celebration, during which the Hajj traditionally took place.’

Perhaps Allah felt it best to have it these days as to not make it too difficult for the people, perhaps the pagans had ripped these ideas of the ‘believers’ before them but twisted them somewhat, who knows! we can never be sure wether historians have got it right, i dont know any of them, wether they were athiests or even pagans who hate islam and lied, do any of us have their credentials? either way its Allahs perogative to have the qiblah and the festivals anytime / place HE wants!. I would stop speculating as these things are difficult to prove as WE arn’t witnesses. Even historains didnt live forever so cant ensure that these were actually ‘pagan’ rituals solely to start off with, after all islam existed at the beginning of time when Adam (pbuh) the first man was created.

‘It does rather look as if the fear of punishment appears to completely outweigh the promise of any heavenly reward. Is this a case where the stick is far more respected than the carrot ? I wonder.’

So what if the stick is more respected? Perhaps it is best if its more respected, its only RIGHT to tell it like how it is, unlike christianity and some of the other religions that barely mention these places of rest much, infact i asked my sikh / hindu friends about the afterlife in their religions and none have got definate answers, let alone similiar ones. Theres no whitewashing in islam and thats what i love about it. If i was to go a step further , if you can remember back at school you would tend to ‘respect’ the stick or the authority of the teacher more than any reward as its much more painful :), saying that im not sure why cant you try to respect both, as both are paramount in serving justice and therefore equally deserving.

Brother Omar Farooq, Jadd had very concisely pointed a historic fact about two walls that exist. But is any of these neceassarily the wall erected by Dhul Qurnain?? Surah Kahf states:

96. “Bring me blocks of iron.” At length, when he had filled up the space between the two steep mountain-sides, He said, “Blow (with your bellows)” Then, when he had made it (red) as fire, he said: “Bring me, that I may pour over it, molten lead.”

Do any these two walls mentioned have molten lead as their exterior??

And herein lies the problems of very eloquent and factually correct answers that dont necessarily answer the question being asked. The answer may sound very plausible and appeal to the mind as being correct. The great wall of china can still be seen, so many would immediatley associate it with “A Wall” they have read about in the Qur’an, forgetting to apply the whole criteria as set out in the Qur’an.

Brother Farooq I would suggest reading more widely about Jajooj and Majooj and you will get the answers you are looking for. There are many other important sings to manifest yet before Gog and Magog…..

Jadd/Paul is correct in his approach to thinking and continiously critically analyzing all that he finds about Islam. But I would respectfully suggest that Jadd/Paul or indeed anyone should read as widely as possible AND consult as many different scholars as possible about Islam. Forming opinions about anything by just reading and then refelcting in your mind is just ones own interpretation of that particular text. Also keep in mind that any text that is read, apart from the original Arabic Qur’an, is an interpretataion of the author of that book. If possible learn the Qur’anic Arabic and you may find further horizons opening up….Inshallah!!

Hurrah! At last, we have a few well reasoned responses to my earlier corespondence. But my first question is why are you all so afraid to use your imagination, and what is so wrong with speculating on the origins of the Qur’an and its author or anything else for that matter? After all there must be thousands of commentaries on the subject not to mention the Hadiths, all of which appear to offer a whole range of interpretions re.the sacred text. Why do you shy away from the secularist and ignore objectivity? What are you so frightened of and whatever happened to freedom of choice ? It is clear to me that the threat of the great big stick still looms large in your minds. I am sure that many of you as children must have experienced this form of punishment at a time when you had no choice but to attend the mosque and submit to your parents wishes. Well, what a way to introduce a child to the all merciful and compasionate God! Little wonder so many of you respond so angrily when as adults your faith is challenged by non-believers. You must harbour such a painful memories. But the really sad thing is that some of you will probably pass this form of religious education on to your own children. However, you are not alone; there are plenty of Christian and Jewish fundamentalists who apply the same treatment to their own kids, all in the name of God. The fact is that I don’t really care if you think I’ve got it all wrong, because at least I’m free, yes free to make my own mistakes and follow my own star of piercing brightness. Salam

Assalaamualaykum dear all.
By Allah,you people are blessed with so much of knowledge,wisdom n patience.Alhamdulillah.
Tears fell from my eyes,knowing so many people far better than I.SubhaAllah.
May Allah grant us all His Mercy,Blessings,Sabr n Shukr.And make our Imaan stronger.Summa Amen.
JazakAllah khairan wa kaseeran to all.:)

For people who wants to leave the non-Muslim to Allah I want to say a few words for them.
The Prophet Muhammed(SAWS) said:”Let the Believer speak truth or keep silent.”[Al Bukhari].

Everyone,
Here’s an extract from my soon to be published book, ‘The Ka’ba Revelation’ and I would welcome any serious and constructive criticism.
Water is the mother of plant life and civilisation and the colour green symbolic of its life regenerating power. Caught between the constant threat of drought and deluge the Arabs managed to develop ingenious ways to harness and conserve this precious element.
This explains why the colour green became the standard of Islam, and adopted as the traditional emblem of paradise and salvation. Consequently, the greening of nature became embodied in the ubiquitous folk hero called al-Khadir, ’the Green One’ whose mantle, like the Prophet’s was vivid green.
In the Qur’an, al-Khadir is the mysterious un-named servant of God who according to tradition attempts to guide Moses towards a place where the ‘two waters’ meet and there drink the ‘water of eternal Life’, ma’ ul-Hayyat’; one drop of which bestows immortality. But al-Khadir, exasperated by Moses’ endless questions is forced to abandon him, leaving al-Khadir to be only saint to drink the rejuvenating water and achieve immortality.
But could the origins of this myth refer to an actual place? In the Persian Gulf, there is an island re-known for its super-abundance of fresh water springs and date palms called Bahrain (lit. twin waters)! Even more remarkable are the number of off shore fresh water vents allowing vast shoals of fresh water fish live and breed. The Sumerians knew of it as Dilmun, ‘the island of the living and the dead’ describing it as a ‘paradise of pure water, and lush vegetation’.
Like St. Christopher and St. George, and Hermes before them al-Khadir is the patron saint of travellers, offering protection to the many pilgrims journeying over land and sea. In this regard al-Khadir should be rightly addressed as the ‘Lord of the Pilgrimage’ and that is why the month Dhu’l Hijja is named in his honour.

paul and jadd need to get a life….many of your such arguments have bought no gains but has infact made ppl much stronger in their righteous belief. the fact is that Quran is indeed a book revealed on human’s by Almighty Allah (swt). it is also a born fact that right will perish and falsehood (like u) will diminish!….. the answer to all your questions can be just a simple answer ” death”. why hasnt ur astrology or technology been able to solve this puzzle. Quran mentioned the world before we were opened our eyes and we found it excatlly the same way and then Quran mentions the world hereafter and we will find it excatlly the same way. we all seek refuge from evil like paul and jadd and all of those creations whose destiny is hell fire. may Allah (swt) forgive us for our sins and enlighten our heart with purity and knowledge

Salaams to everyone,
With regards to the comments of some friends here,is a verse from ALLAH ALMIGHTY Himself. The fools among the people will say, “What has turned them from their prayer direction to which they were used to face in prayer.” Say, “To Allah belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a Straight Way.” [2:142]

Salman,
To you, I shall only quote this extract from Shakespeare’s play ‘Julius Ceaser,” There is no terror, Cassius, in your threats, for I am armed so strong in honesty that they pass by me as the idle wind, which I respect not.”
You must understand that those people who have a genuine faith in in God are truly content and secure in thier personal convictions. As a result they never feel threatened by the opinions of others especially when it challenges their religious practices. With respect, you appear to display all the hall-marks of someone who is deeply insecure, and desperately clinging to a set of doctrinal beliefs but with no real faith in the Creator or even yourself. Otherwise you could not react so negatively to what I have said. May I therefore remind you once again that, ‘to believe in God is divine, but to believe in your beliefs, is folly’. My advice to you is relax and start living according to the spirit of the Qur’an and not its letter. It might help everyone all round.

As salamu alaikum,
i was searching for tafseer of Surah Kahf and found this blog. I need to ask a question which is important. What Islam says about shrines. I mean a part of Surah Kahf does convince that we are prohibited to build shrines. Could anyone else please share their views with support of hadeeth? I would appreciate it :)
JazakAllah

I was born in a Hindu family . I am settled in France since 1973 and by chance I embrassed the Holy Quran in 1989 when I met a girl alone on the street . I asked her problems ; she told me that her cousin has threw her outside because of jealousy . I brought her home and we have gone together to meet the Imaan of a mosque. I have been converted sincde and get married with the girl . And I asked for TAWBA .On the day of Thursday (28 the of January 2010), I learned by Internet that my mother left us (Intekaal).
What should I do for her inspite of the fact I follow Muslilms culture, prayers,etc.
Give an idea ??? Emotionally I am feeling sick.

I work as a school teacher in houston texas usa and we were discussing something on quran and one of my other moslem freind who is a shia tried to explainf the cave men to my american friends and we could not give them a convincing name christian name to them so I told them I will find out by googling it, and I came across this wonderful web site and found things unaware to me thank you so much…Mrs Kausar karim

Adam, I couldn’t agree more with your advice to ‘read widely and extensively on any subject before passing judgement especially when it comes to a religous texts like the Qur’an, which as I understand it was first brought down by God’s personal messenger boy Gabriel who revealed it to the Prophet Mohammed who in turn recited it to his followers. Twenty or thirty years later someone took the decision to seek out all those who could remember the various Suras and collate it into one book (Kutb). Except of course that al-Qur’an was all written down in Arabic. After all, the Jews have the Torah, the Christians the Gospels and the Hindus have the Vedas. It therefore follows that the Arab nation should have their own scripture and rightfully belongs them. Therefore the Qur’an we cherish today isn’t exactly what I would call a first hand account. Do you?
Incidentally, one way of ensuring a long after-life of all great spiritual teachers is to model their life on a popular and well known pre-existing mythic hero figure, as for example Jesus whose main rituals and festivals were carefully grafted onto the the Saviour god Mithras. It could be argued that certain aspects of the Prophet’s life and mission might possibly echo the legendary Greek and Roman scribal god Hermes or Mercury. The Nabataeans called him al-Kutbay whilst those in S. Arabia knew him as Nabi, from Nebo the Sumarian name for the planet Mercury (Utared). Interestingly, Hermes is associated with a cave, is the patron god of Merchants, changed the calendar, facilitated at dream oracles and most importantly was the divine messenger who introduced the art of writing and acted as a mediator between God and mankind. Coincidence??

I will appreciate if you can kindly give me some wazaif through which I can prosper, ihope you wil not regret on this matter ,I always read surah yaseen daily. As a routine I also read some mixed surahs daily,but I need somewazaif, I am ready to give the zakat for any wazaif
Also please let me know that should I do bait on a good islamicbuzurag Kia main kisi ka hath per bAit karna chIyeya,tu koi murshid bhi bata dain, main yahan Canada main Toronto main rehta hoon
shukriya
Salam o alikum

Paul/Jadd- please continue with your interesting insights, indeed you seem like a man of knowledge and wisdom.
my dua is that Allah allows you to find peace and tranquility in all the deliberations you seem to have with Islam, in the correct manner, insha-Allah.

for all those who are clearly frustrated at Paul/Jadd – please learn from him this: Islam promotes knowledge, and it is important that as Muslims we continously strive for this, and make dawah wherever possible.

Paul/Jadd -For me, Islam is a ‘manual’ for life….through its instructions and guidance i am able to lead a well-balanced life, with many rewards to follow insha-Allah.

You seem to be working on the prinicpal of what if God/religion/ heaven and hell don’t exist, why bother with the unknown, right? I can appreciate how you may also think the stick seems to overpower the carrot, however, for me the risk of leading any other kind of life, is far too great to take. Besides the proof of the Quran and Sunnah, the fact that there are billions of followers of monotheism, more specifically that Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world – surely you cannot deny these facts? if so then surely so many people cannot be ‘blindly’ following such a religion? It must serve a far greater purpose. Far enough poor uneducated people may be following with this view in mind, however how would you explain why educated, itellectuals of similar calibre to yourself, may follow?

As newborns need to be nutured, loved and guided, for Muslims, or for me at least, Islam provides this love and guidance. For example, an abandoned newborn cannot be expected to manage without these things (and should never have to), as we know they don’t have those faculties yet to make choices for themselves (despite ‘theories’ of freedom of choice); it requires all this from its parents and family. Much in the same way, we require Allah’s love, guidance and mercy, or else without it we will falter.

i ask you to look deeper into your spiritual heart, and maybe consider why Muslims are Muslims, and even why people revert back to becoming a Muslim? i’m sure you’ll find similarities between the qualities of a ‘humanist’ as yourself and a Muslim.

How gratifying it is to hear one lone intelligent voice amongst so many outraged contibutors re-acting to anything I write. Inspired by your comments I would just like remind everyone that I have no hidden agenda, Jewish or otherwise and try ernestly to avoid hurting anyone’s feelings particurly towards those whose hearts and minds are truly bound to the highest principles of their faith. Having said that, I am nonetheless commited to opening up the discussion by examining some of the cross cultural influences that gave rise to the birth of Islam in the first place.
My main focus has been to examine the origins and development of Ka’ba at Mecca which to my mind appears to have served as a kind of Town Hall as much as anything else. For example, we can be fairly certain that the Ka’ba itself was built over the site of a natural spring, and that the 2 metre high pediment on which the Sacred House now sits is in fact the remains of an old cistern built to contain the spring. “..and His House is upon the waters”. After the Zam-zam well was dug the old cistern fell into dis-use and was later used as a vault to safely store money collected from the land tax and tythes paid in by the Meccans including the many votive offerings of gold and silver dedicated to the pagan gods and goddesses worshipped there. Between the SE corner and the door of the Ka’ba is a place where the devout press themselves against the wall to pray, called ‘al-Multazem’. This I think is quite significant because the word actually means’Tax-collector’! Access to the vault was through a hole set into the Ka’ba floor called al-Aqsa. As a warning to anyone thinking of stealing the treasure therein, the Qurayshi invented a story which claimed that the chamber was guarded by a monstrous black snake.
Another interesting detail which existed until recently, thanks to the Saudi authorities who have seen fit to remove it, is the so called ‘Ma’ajan’ or ‘kneading trough’. This is believed to be the place where Ibrahim mixed his cement when building the Ka’ba, preserving at the same time his very footprints in what today is called the Maqam Ibrahim. Dispite this, the al-Ma’ajan was also known as the Maqam Jibril, the place where Mohammed was wont to pray. But the maqam itself was originally a pedestal supporting the gilded statue of the main god of the Ka’ba. But who exactly was the high god of the Ka’ba worshipped at this time? In all probability it was not Hubal the Moon god but his very own faithful servant Thabir / al-Kutbay, al-Maqah the Nabi; in other words Hermes / Mercury the bringer and interpreter of dreams, divine scribe and servant messenger of God. Remember the night the Prophet slept in the Ka’ba and dreamed that he was transported to the highest heaven on the winged creature called ‘Buraq’. This is a classic example of what was known by the ancients as ‘incubation’ or dream oracle and a provided Mohammed with a clear premonition of his successful bid to escape Mecca to Medina the following year.
Enjoy…

seems to me you are trying very hard to equate islam with paganism and idol worship. try and distinct arabs and islam for one, then distinct arab culture and islam, then distinct arab history before islam then after islam. it is true before the prophet muhammad (pbuh)brought the message the arabs were idol worshippers, and they had their idols in the ka’aba, and many other religious sects around arabia at that time in certain periods came to the kaaba to worship their idols because they believed the kaaba is a holy site, well we know it is since Allah commanded prophet ibrahim/abraham to build the kaaba there, what happened was what happens over time when ignorance prevails, instead of the kaaba being a site for the one God, they changed it to be a site for their idols, just like the torah was changed by the 70 priests in babylon, or the bible by paul, the vatican n the roman empire, if u read history u will see ignorant men come and change things, then believe it to be true, and then the rest of it they say its tales of the ancient, am sure the idol worshippers believed the story of prophet ibrahim to be just that. so you coming with pagan stories as facts i can accept to a certain level but never when it is associated to the prophet muhammad (pbuh)because it is a known fact prophet muhammad coming back to mecca from medina destroyed all the idols in mecca and arabia which till today they are not in existence. so for you to say islam was inspired by paganism when the prophet muhammad (pbuh)was completely against it, even before he recieved his 1st message is a very false statement and very very misleading, n i insist u take that back.

about prophet isa/jesus you equated him with mithra and others equate him with horus as well as shiva and other pagan gods, because all were born by virgins, died on the cross, came back after 3 days right? well in the quran Allah told us he was not crusified, it only appeared so to the ppl, but Allah raised him unto himself, so its not similar to the other stories (the bible has been changed and mixed with pagan dogmas – fact. so when ever u talk about islam remember its not the same with the bible). before prophet isa came there were prophesies of him by previous prophets, what happened was ppl taking that prophesy and applying it to some charismatic figure heads who did something great for their ppl, and after their death the ppl deified them, or in some cases misunderstood the prophesy itself, human error. 4 example the hindu are still waiting for the kalki avatar to come and bring them into all truth n peace because there was a prophesy about him, now it is proven fact that prophet muhammad (pbuh)was the kalki avatar in the hindu scriptures, most hindu’s are still awaiting him coming, but they dont know he already came and left. dont blame islam for any human error. prophet muhammad (pbum)was similar to prophet ibrahim in the way they fought against paganism and idol worship, and their ppl tried to persecute them for that, y would they want to destroy anything that inspired them? its like saying you want to destroy darwin after he reinforced the atheist idea of no God but everything evolved, does not make sense. Prophet muhammad (pbuh) by Allahs command ended paganism n idolatory, a practice by arabs in arabia not islam, arab practice not islam, 2 different things. i hope you would try to differentiate arab practices with islam, even thiough the last prophet was arab islam is for every man. n the prophets greatness can b seen from the prophesies of him in the vedas and the bhagwad geetas, the buddhists scriptures, in zarostrianism, sihkism as well as judaism by moses n christanity by jesus, do the research you will see. islams roots was never in paganism because the 1st man adam was a muslim (a muslim by definition is some1 who believes in 1 God the creator of all things) thats the literal meaning in arabic. for you to say khidr was a god of rain n all that is the way buddhists say buddah is God, did buddah ever say he is God? no. or like christains saying jesus is God, did jesus ever say he was God or worship me? no, not even in the bible izit mentioned jesus said i am God or worship me. did shango ever say he was God? no but the yoruba ppl worship him as a god. has the sun ever told the ppl i am god worship me, or the cow, or fire or the vietnamese trung sisters? no but ppl do that because of their ignorance n a belief they were made to accept which has no truth in them. did khidr say i am a god of this or that? no, then y r ppl saying so? pure ignorance. i will leave u with this:

“At Muhammad’s own death an attempt was made to deify him, but the man who was to become his administrative successor killed the hysteria with one of the noblest speeches in religious history: ‘If there are any among you who worshiped Muhammad, he is dead. But if it is God you Worshiped, He lives for ever’.”

James Michener in ‘Islam: The Misunderstood Religion,’ Reader’s Digest, May 1955, pp. 68-70.

this stopped any idea of worshipping him. if you want to read more about prophet muhammad (pbuh) check this out

I am pakistani I always 100 % Saudi and Egayptians and some other contries people here in KSA that they recite this Soorah( Al Kaaf ) on friday. So I think to find the improtance of this Surah. Today I am very thankful to you for providing these islamic information on this site. May the Blessings of GOD be with you and All yours family and all Muslims of the the world.

Salam to all of you
Well all of the things which have been told in this Surah and all the interpretaion above mentioned is very good it is very intresting and gives a very good idea abt the future and time of dajjal but i want to mention 1 thing more abt Yajum And Mujuj well we have heared this a lots of time tht they will not b humans and they have long ears , well its true tht they are the sons of NOah and there is a less chance that they can not b humans but i want to mention 1 thing about the coming of yajuj and majuj with refrence from hadith sahi bukhari and u shuld check it
1st read this Hadith

Narrated Zainab bint Jahsh: That the Prophet once came to her in a state of fear and said, “None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Woe unto the Arabs from a danger that has come near. An opening has been made in the wall of gog and Magog like this,” making a circle with his thumb and index finger. Zainab bint Jahsh said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Shall we be destroyed even though there are pious persons among us?” He said, “Yes, when the evil person will increase.” (Book #55, Hadith #565)

Now Holy Prophet (PBUH) clearly mentioned tht “a hole has been made ”
ppl try to find the truth hole was made in the times of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the wall was begging to fall back then , none of us has beeen able to find the wall yet ???
the wall is not there anymore???
Try to look at the things with both eyes meaning with eye of the heart ,EYE of Khidr (a.s) dont judge by just looking as Moses (a.s) Was looking at tht time and was fail to understand…
SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH
TRY TO FIND CONNECTIONS

As-salaamu alaykum, all
Jazaakum Allahu khayran for the info on Al-Kahf.
The comments generated by this surah are a testimony of the many facets it covers, and to whom it was revealed.

As Muslims, it is our duty to seek knowledge, to question, and not follow the ways of our forefathers blindly. The world is expansive, and the more we learn, the more we realize we know little. Many Muslims follow Islam dogmatically, which may lead to stagnation and shirk.

HOWEVER, there is a difference between questioning issues related to the known and questioning issues related to the unknown (ghayb). That is the difference between those who are sincere believers, and those who attempt to speculate/add/subtract, as was done to previous revelations. Some philosophers know their limits, but most transgress those limits (even asking questions like: How was your Lord created?). If our goal is know everything that God knows, we are at an impasse.
Some may respond to that impasse by fictionalizing and promoting “creative thinking,” as Paul/Jadd has. This often leads to shirk, and is the very reason earlier revelations were changed and/or dismissed as fiction. Others may respond by accepting the fact that some aspects of God are simply not within our realm of knowing.

As Muslims, we are asked to seek knowledge, to question (within the realm of the known, which we have yet to fully discover), and to accept revealed knowledge. We are also asked to leave what is ghaybi to Allah, to a time when we hope to meet our Lord, insha’Allah, to understand all that the heart yearned to know.

By the way: I’m no scholar, but elementary Arabic helps to clarify between the word for “green” and the word for “pot.” I’m surprised by how confidently Paul/Jadd arrived to the wrong conclusions. There is a world of knowledge we have yet to discover, Paul. Why keep harping on the unknown?

Green = khaa + Dhaad + raa = khiDr
Pot = Qaaf + daal + raa = Qidr

This thread also reminds me that the Qur’aan will either be proof for us or against us. I’m starting to understand more and more what Allah means when He warns us that the message will either strengthen the believer’s faith, or strengthen the disbeliever’s resolve.

To Jadd/Paul,
You must feel very lonely indeed if you don’t believe in Allah as your Lord.
We Muslims are never alone,when it seems at times that the whole world is against us,including those human beings we love so much,we don’t give up because we know we have Allah with us.
How I wish you could feel that which we Muslims feel.
I feel sorry for all the Non-Muslims out there because even though Allah has blessed them with such great knowledge,they really aren’t benefiting from it at all. They are making so much discoveries but none which will benefit them. How I wish you all discover Allah because you can be the cleverest person in the world and have immense knowledge but if Allah can’t guide you,then you will never be guided.
If you,Jadd/Paul,and any other Non-Muslim,really want to seek the truth then InshAllah Allah will guide you towards it.I had to struggle and pray a lot for guidance and Alhamdulillah Allah guided me.This is what we all pray for and may Allah accept our prayers,Ameen.

Thanks Muslim, for your concern; although I do think your worries are misplaced because in my experience the more I understand about life and the wiser I become the easier life seems to get. As the saying goes “Do less and accomplish more” which is rather like the principle of levers. Its that simple. Ignorance on the other hand only results in suffering and that’s when life becomes a real struggle, as you have already discovered. Blind obediance towards those in authority is clearly not enough! My advice is to keep calm and keep an open mind and above all be true to yourself. In other words preserve your integrity and you can’t go far wrong.
By the way I am researching into the root origins of the following Arabic words and wondered if there is a common connection: ‘Halal’- lawful; ‘Hilal’- crescent moon, ‘Hala’- halo or nimbus and ‘Hallul’- exultation. Halal sounds very similar to the Hebrew word ‘Halakha’ meaning ‘the Jewish Law, and Hala – halo, is an effect sometimes seen around the full moon which was in ancient times described as a sign or a symbol of ‘Divine radiance, much like the rainbow. For some reason neither of these two obvious signs were thought worthy enough to be included in the Qur’an. Why?

I notice with some regret that my last posting has been removed. No exlanation given. I will therefore graciously quit this site and let you get on with the task of reasoning it all out for yourselves; that’s if you can handle the reponsibilty of being an honest and courageous individual,unafraid of what those in authority may say. Please, start learning to think for yourselves. Adieu

slm i found this sooooooooo intresting i want to start a short project on it ti help young muslims understand!!!!!!!! jazakallah for this i will recommand this site to others for it helps alot!!!!!!! wslm!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MashAllah, it was quite interesting to go through this discussion and i wanted to make a point.

As you guys were talking about the ‘green’ colour, it is imperative to note that the Holy Quran was revealed in the desertland of Arabia, devoid of any vegetation… The people there had hardly anything to do except for imaginative poetry. Other civilizations had architecture, knowledge, etc to be proud of. But for the arabians, it was the arabic language that meant everything. if you read classical poetry , we’d find such instances. So, to make a better and sound visual imagery of Jannah, the colours and things that the Arabians could only imagine were mentioned. What we really ignore while analyzing the whole context of Quran e Hakeem is the time and place of revelation. It really is integral. I am a literature student and the imagery that has been used and the other literal devices, they’re beyond my scope. It feels that we’re really living it. SUBHANALLAH.

And Jadd/Paul, if you really have issues with the colour, you can have them. Islam does not force the green color on anyone.

And one more thing, Arabic, Hebrew and Aramaic are all sister languages. They have some common words or meanings but not ALL. some really differ. And Quran abrogates the messages that the other two Books carry AT THE MOMENT. so whether The Quran has info. from those books or not, Allah knows best!

And it is amazing how people talk about moon and paganism and Islam. Try studying the Attributes of Allah in the Holy Quran. And analyze them. They have so much depth and meaning.

And one of the Hikmah of Kaabha could be what i have in mind, though Allah knows best:
Abraham built it. And Islam is an Abrahamic Faith. though Judaism and Christianity claim to be that too, theyre’s hardly ant Monotheistic belief left in them. So to make Islam distinct from those two, the Kiblah was made to be Kaabah again. However, It is only to Allah that we prostrate. Kiblah/Kaabah is just a way of uniting our direction. If we do not know to which direction it is, well then, no problem, Allah encompasses everything. We can pray towards the place that we feel to be right. And btw, we still have the deepest respect for Masjid tul Aqsa. and the jews of medinah at the time of Prphet pbuh used to be happy that atleast Muslims were praying towards Jerusalem, except Allah had other plans as He is the Best Planner and Encompasses the meagre knowledge of others.

and Abraham prayed to Allah to make this city a city of peace and keep his offsprings safe from idolatory. And Muhammad pbuh did abolish idolatory. and Allah did make makkah a city of peace and this is what Masjid e Haram and the boundaries of haram are. It is a place of sanctity.

Kaabah does not and cannot symbolize anything that pertains to Allah for Allah has no images; nor can He be compared or symbolized. God won’t be God if He can be symbolized! It is just to mark the Kiblah and a place where the Ummah can make a pilgrimmage to and really feel the spirit of unity and brotherhood.