Weight Weenies

tubulars or clinchers

tubulars or clinchers

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:32 am

by 88a

Okay, it's been a year and a half since my last flat. In that time I've ridden on 3 different types of clinchers, changed due to normal wear, one of which (Conti 3000s) I wore down to the threads. I've always resisted the "improved ride" of tubulars because I dreaded fixing a flat out on the road, but it seems that's not much of an argument any more.

What do you guys ride, and really, are tubulars worth the hassel?

tubulars or clinchers

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:32 am

by Weenie

Re: tubulars or clinchers

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 12:01 pm

by Joel

Tubulars are the best for racing, tyres for training. When you don't race you can maybe get a peir of tubular special event wheels

tubulars or clinchers

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:16 pm

by 88a

Yeah, but why are tubulars better for racing, and why not use them for training?

BTW, Joel, are you going to the TdF when it passes through Belgium? I think it's Stage 2 that uses one of my training routes over the Muur, which I'm going to see.

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:26 pm

by Weisse Luft

The difference in ride has been narrowed so much that it would be difficult for even the most experienced rider to tell the difference. Folding clinchers have reduced the weight disadvantage of clinchers which is 90% of the difference.

Back when steel wire beaded clinchers were the only available tire, tire weights of 650 grams with tube and rim strip were the norm and a tubular would weigh in at a svelte 300 grams. Clincher rims also carried a ~100 penalty. You were taking almost a kilogram of weight penalty with clinchers. BIG difference.

Now that penalty is almost nothing. And tires now reflect this as high performance clinchers are available.

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:39 pm

by morrisond

I rode Tubulars for the first time this weekend and I found a significant ride difference. I normally run Conti Force/Attack on Ambrosio Excel Light rims. This weekend I finally tried my Spada Carbonio Aero's with Tufo Elite Jet<160, there was a very noticeable difference in ride (and weight, over 1 lb). The wheels felt like they weren't there and felt much better when leaned over at severe angles. I almost lost it in one decreasing radius corner when the front slid out, but it was very progressive(maybe due to the round tires) and easy to catch. On clinchers I felt I would have lost it for sure.

I'm running Tufo Sealant and extreme tape as well which makes setup a lot easier. I'm a fan and will be putting lots of miles on these this summer. I'll still run clinchers around the city as they are a lot cheaper if you bang a rim or wreck a tire. But out in the country the Tub's are the way to go.

You will never know unless you try some. Clinchers have advanced but so have Tubulars, particularly Tufo with there sealant and tape technology.

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 4:10 pm

by cyclemanpat

I use my AC Tubulars with Tufo tires(and sealant) for training. I ride them 300 miles a week on pretty bad roads, and have not had a flat yet. The ride is much better and smoother on tubulars. They corner better and wear better....I use the Tufo S33 Special for traing, great tread and puncture proof. Thumbs-up for TUBBIES!!!!

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:07 pm

by Weisse Luft

I have ridden both types but haven't tried Tufo's (yet). When you compare tubulars to clinchers, bear in mind the rim can impart a large difference in the feel.

Comparing Conti GP tubulars to the old Grand Prix clinchers, I could not discern ANY difference in a nearly blind test. Since then, my tubulars have gotten very little use.

And this is about weight. Total weight. All I need to self-support is my inflator and a spare tube when riding clinchers. With tubulars, I am 200 grams heavier, not to mention the bulk of a spare tire.

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 5:21 pm

by Racing Aardvark

I race on tubies, train on clinchers (except for cross where I train on tubular/clinchers from Tufo).

There is a vast difference in feel between my race wheels and my training wheels, but I wouldn't want to train on tubies. I look at it this way, if I can peel a flat tubie off easily on the road, it is NOT stuck on enough to handle cornering in a crit.

tubulars vs clinchers

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 7:49 pm

by J xl

Think only the best tubulars which are glued perfectly to the rims are worth the trouble. The best clincher tyres (by veloflex imho) are far better than most medium quality tubulars.
For indoor cycling, cross country of high speed road racing there is no substitute for tubulars (when you're a pro) for every other occasion I would always choose clincher tyres.
The other reason is the price of a good tubular like those from dugast or veloflex, it's just like lightweight wheels they are much too expensive to risk damaging them during a training.

Re: tubulars or clinchers

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:17 pm

by Joel

BTW, Joel, are you going to the TdF when it passes through Belgium? I think it's Stage 2 that uses one of my training routes over the Muur, which I'm going to see.

Which date I don't think I'll go watching it, you see more on the tv and I have to race and train too.

Tubulars are better for racing because: lighter, slightly better rolling resistance, more control on a flat tire.
Tyres are better for training: lower cost when you have a flat, fast replacement and in bad conditions (rain, grind, etc.) you better don't risk a flat tubbie when training (the cost).

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:54 pm

by TedB

I use only Tufo tubulars now, and I've had great luck with them (using the extreme tape). No more clinchers, no more pinch flats. I am not going back to clinchers.

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:59 pm

by Racing Aardvark

I use Tufo tubies for road and cross. I used to train on the clincher/tubies on the road, but started getting unnerved as my mountain rides were getting further and further out there...BUT I only had TWO punctures in the life of those tires..

anyway, the Tufo racing tubulars ROCK. The Elite Jet kicks so much ass in crits, and I even used them at the Tour of the Gila last year (known for its shitty roads)..no issues there.

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:06 am

by PCS74

I am currently on Tufo Elite Road's, extreme tape, and sealant. I will never use tire/tube again. In my VERY limited experience with them they feel superior in every respect.

They take more time to install, but that is the only downside I notice.

Chris S

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:49 pm

by Joel

But you have to know the Belgian roads are not that let's say good.
Lots of holes in the road and other bad things for light wheels and tyres.
Whe have also a wet climate (maybe 180 rain days a year ) so I wouldn't use tubulars for training here, just like I wouldn't use carbon wheels for training

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 12:49 pm

by Weenie

Posted: Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:52 pm

by Oswald

Joel wrote:But you have to know the Belgian roads are not that let's say good.Lots of holes in the road and other bad things for light wheels and tyres.Whe have also a wet climate (maybe 180 rain days a year ) so I wouldn't use tubulars for training here, just like I wouldn't use carbon wheels for training

Yeah, Belgium roads suck... no way that you can use a 160gram Tufo tubular for more than 100 yards over here!!

I managed to flat a 24mm Clemant Roubaix tubular a few weeks ago... it was almost brandnew!!

I also have a pair of carbon rims, but they already have a lot of carbon chipped off... and these are 600gr rims, so they are pretty strong!! Using a lightweight carbon rim is not a good idea over here... and putting a lightweight tubular on it, is even less of a good idea...