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Even granting, arguendo, that this is true (which it isn't), it's simply a red herring [ETA: also poisoning the well]. It doesn't do a thing to change the overwhelming evidence that the Holocaust happened as generally accepted by all serious historians.

__________________Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

Oh my another seagull attack by Mondial. I guess you've learned to drop nonsense and run instead of trying to support it? lol

Here is a question for you (oh and you have lots more questions you've avoided up thread too) is there any reason to respond to you? There is no discussion you just post long debunked stuff and run off.

Even granting, arguendo, that this is true (which it isn't), it's simply a red herring [ETA: also poisoning the well]. It doesn't do a thing to change the overwhelming evidence that the Holocaust happened as generally accepted by all serious historians.

I think that Mondial knows that which is why he has adopted the tactic of 'depositing' long debunked stuff and then running off. The experts (of which I am not one) here have ripped him to shreds far to many times for him to risk an actual discussion.

__________________Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

One hopeful data point in the study was that an overwhelming majority of all Americans (93 percent) agreed that the history of the Holocaust should be taught in schools.

A Washington Post poll conducted in the wake of white supremacist violence in Charlottesville, Virginia, last summer found that 9 percent of Americans thought there was no problem in holding neo-Nazi or white supremacist views – this equates to about 22 million people. (or 6.75% of the population)

Another data point from the survey, which Mondial saw fit not to mention: "Holocaust denial remains very rare in the United States, with 96 percent of respondents saying they believe the genocide happened." from NYT article on the survey

A view that Americans are generally no less informed today about the Holocaust than they were in the past or than they are about other historical matters is found here.

That many people have a fuzzy view events, numbers, dates, place names, individuals, etc is not surprising - here is a post I made in this forum in 2011 on the state of education about the Holocaust in public schools in the US, which, in my experience, is reflective of the state of historical education in general.

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

I’m curious, do you just randomly drop by and then run off before you get discovered? Inquiring minds want to know.

Yes he does. In the past he tried to do normal debate and was absolutely shredded here by the many knowledgeable experts. These days he just seagulls a question then runs off for days or weeks comes back and drops another and runs off again.

I think the strategy is to avoid being shown to be wrong (which he was in a huge way in the past)and so keeping white supremacy and anti-Semitic themes in play.

Oh my another seagull attack by Mondial. I guess you've learned to drop nonsense and run instead of trying to support it? lol

Here is a question for you (oh and you have lots more questions you've avoided up thread too) is there any reason to respond to you? There is no discussion you just post long debunked stuff and run off.

For a moment there, I thought I had stumbled into the JFK Conspiracy thread!!!

__________________► 9/11 was a terrorist attack by Islamic extremists; 12 Apollo astronauts really did walk on the Moon; JFK was assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald,who acted alone.
► Never underestimate the power of the Internet to lend unwarranted credibility to the colossally misinformed. - Jay Utah
► Heisenberg's Law - The weirdness of the Universe is inversely proportional to the scale at which you observe it, or not.

For a moment there, I thought I had stumbled into the JFK Conspiracy thread!!!

Oh yeah I drop in there once every few weeks and it seems to be the same argument that was going on three or four years ago. It's always breathless assertion that 'x' (piece of trivia) is wrong, very important but for no particular reason.

I don't agree with France's position....I am something of an absolutist when it comes to free speech...but I can understand it.
Agree that a Neo Nazi complaining about somebody's Free Speech being violated is a truly astounding bit of hypocrisy.

They have a tendency to suddenly start caring a lot about democratic principles when they benefit from them themselves.

Kinda like how Internett trolls here in Norway suddenly become very big supporters of feminism and the fight against sexual abuse when they can use it to hate on "foreigners". The rest of the time feminists are evil in their eyes, of course.

__________________In choosing to support humanitarian organizations, it's best to choose those that do not have "militant wings" (Mycroft, 2013)

Yes he does. In the past he tried to do normal debate and was absolutely shredded here by the many knowledgeable experts. These days he just seagulls a question then runs off for days or weeks comes back and drops another and runs off again.

I think the strategy is to avoid being shown to be wrong (which he was in a huge way in the past)and so keeping white supremacy and anti-Semitic themes in play.

So he's like the "bots" found in every Israel-Palestine discussion thread who just spams links, YouTube videos, and random statements, and are unable to have actual rational discussions?

I've found many Trump supporters to be like this, too. Try to actually talk to them and they just go into protective insult/Whataboutism mode.

__________________In choosing to support humanitarian organizations, it's best to choose those that do not have "militant wings" (Mycroft, 2013)

Yes he does. In the past he tried to do normal debate and was absolutely shredded here by the many knowledgeable experts. These days he just seagulls a question then runs off for days or weeks comes back and drops another and runs off again.

I think the strategy is to avoid being shown to be wrong (which he was in a huge way in the past)and so keeping white supremacy and anti-Semitic themes in play.

I didn't get shredded by you or any other [SNIP] on this thread. It simply doesn't pay to debate with people like you who insist on calling anyone who doesn't believe in fake atrocity propaganda from a conflict which ended over 70 years ago an "anti semite" or "neo nazi". If you bothered to ready my posts properly you would see that I have repeatedly pointed out that there are Jews who are holocaust revisionists -https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6912
This includes Gerard Menuhin the son of violinist Yehudi Menhin -https://codoh.com/news/3347/
You completely ignore this and insist on the name calling. You have zero credibility so why would I waste my time with you.
I have also pointed out that people who actually fought the Nazis are in the ranks of holocaust revisionists such as Paul Rassinier a member of the French resistance and inmate of Buchenwald.https://codoh.com/library/document/3129/
You also completely ignore this and just stick to name calling.
I leave links for members and visitors to see what revisionists have to say in their own words. If you don't like that then that's your problem!https://codoh.com

They have a tendency to suddenly start caring a lot about democratic principles when they benefit from them themselves.

Kinda like how Internett trolls here in Norway suddenly become very big supporters of feminism and the fight against sexual abuse when they can use it to hate on "foreigners". The rest of the time feminists are evil in their eyes, of course.

Democratic principles have been trashed by countries which are continually talking about human rights yet they don't even support the right to free speech. www.ihr.org/news/irving022006.html
Of course you have nothing to say about that. The same politicians which imprison holocaust revisionists are also the ones who spout phrases such as Je Suis Charlie. If you want to be known as a two faced hypocrite you are in good company.https://forum.codoh.com/viewforum.php?f=2

Fail yourself. You won't be sent to jail if you say the earth is flat. You will be sent to jail in over a dozen countries that call themselves "democracies" if you say the holocaust isn't true.
On the one hand they are saying what the revisionists are spouting is rubbish and on the other hand they are saying that what they say is so dangerous it has to be banned. You can't have it both ways!https://codoh.com/library/document/5160/

To all of the politically correct ignoramuses and phoney skeptics who infest this thread how do you explain the following? Alexander McClelland was an Australian veteran of WW2 and inmate of Terezin the small fortress of Theresienstadt. Here is an interview with him -www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1U3oGMQ8iM
More detail on Alexander McClelland here - https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4480
He fought the Nazis yet according to your politically correct viewpoint he is a neo nazi simply because of his views.

Thought I post it here since my question related, I think (it just sounds weird).

Yesterday, my father went to by a newspaper in a bookstore called Standaard Boekhandel (they also sell newspapers and stuff). Now the owner of the shop occasionally talks with my father when goes there and yesterday, they were talking about the current **** that's happening at the GAZA border.

All of a sudden, Wim(that's the owner's name) says that Hitler was actually not so bad and only wanted to get rid of the Jews, because they were rich.

Eh, what? is it just me or does this sound like borderline Holocaust denialism? Because this sounds weird...

True CT behavior, take the comments out of context.
I was referring to the behavior of CT's in general to stating some BS and then running away without answering questions.
So do you have issues with the Holocaust or just parts of it?

Fail yourself. You won't be sent to jail if you say the earth is flat. You will be sent to jail in over a dozen countries that call themselves "democracies" if you say the holocaust isn't true.
On the one hand they are saying what the revisionists are spouting is rubbish and on the other hand they are saying that what they say is so dangerous it has to be banned. You can't have it both ways!https://codoh.com/library/document/5160/

Non sequitur. You stated that 31% of Americans believe that fewer than 2 million Jews died in the Holocaust, clearly implying that that proves something other than a lack of education. I countered that a similar number believe the Sun orbits the Earth, which is clearly due to a lack of education.

Further, we are talking about America, where, as you well know, Holocaust denial is perfectly legal. So yes, you fail.

__________________Handy responses to conspiracy theorists' claims:
1) "I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage
2) "This isn't right. This isn't even wrong." --Wolfgang Pauli
3) "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." --Inigo Montoya

Fail yourself. You won't be sent to jail if you say the earth is flat. You will be sent to jail in over a dozen countries that call themselves "democracies" if you say the holocaust isn't true.
On the one hand they are saying what the revisionists are spouting is rubbish and on the other hand they are saying that what they say is so dangerous it has to be banned. You can't have it both ways!https://codoh.com/library/document/5160/

How many people had actually to serve prison time in these countries and how many time did these people stay in prison ?

I didn't get shredded by you or any other [SNIP]on this thread. It simply doesn't pay to debate with people like you who insist on calling anyone who doesn't believe in fake atrocity propaganda from a conflict which ended over 70 years ago an "anti semite" or "neo nazi". If you bothered to ready my posts properly you would see that I have repeatedly pointed out that there are Jews who are holocaust revisionists -https://forum.codoh.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=6912
This includes Gerard Menuhin the son of violinist Yehudi Menhin -https://codoh.com/news/3347/
You completely ignore this and insist on the name calling. You have zero credibility so why would I waste my time with you.
I have also pointed out that people who actually fought the Nazis are in the ranks of holocaust revisionists such as Paul Rassinier a member of the French resistance and inmate of Buchenwald.https://codoh.com/library/document/3129/
You also completely ignore this and just stick to name calling.
I leave links for members and visitors to see what revisionists have to say in their own words. If you don't like that then that's your problem!https://codoh.com

I missed your reply to this post and your explanation for what Eric Hunt meant when he announced that he had given up denial because it held back his real goal of promoting race realism and "opposing the very real Jewish-led white genocide campaign."

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Claim #1: Jews were turned by the Nazis into soap, often claimed to be in form of the bars with the abbreviation "RIF" or "RJF" sometimes claimed to represent something like "Reines Judenfett" or "reines jüdisches Fett" (pure Jewish fat).

This claim is fully, 100% false. It has been discredited by mainstream historians decades ago. There is zero credible evidence for it. "RIF" stood for "Reichsstelle für industrielle Fettversorgung", ("Reich authority for industrial fat supply"; later Reichsstelle für industrielle Fette und Waschmittel). In fact, RIF cannot stand for anything with "jüdisch" in it, since, while the capital "J" could sometimes be used in German at that time to replace "I", the capital "I" could not be used to replace "J".

I missed your reply to this post and your explanation for what Eric Hunt meant when he announced that he had given up denial because it held back his real goal of promoting race realism and "opposing the very real Jewish-led white genocide campaign."

While the list does not show many people it's probably not complete. For instance, the French Vincent Reynouard who actually spent more than one year in jail is missing.

On the other hand, while denialists are crying that the countries which have enforced anti-denialism laws do not apply the freedom of speech, it appears that the numbers of people who have been actually jailed for denialism is ridiculously low. Even a guy like Faurisson has never spent one single day in jail.

Actually you were by the experts here (of which I am not one) which is why you've been seagull bombing this and other threads.

If you weren't why aren't you here winning the debate?

lol

Quote:

It simply doesn't pay to debate with people like you who insist on calling anyone who doesn't believe in fake atrocity propaganda from a conflict which ended over 70 years ago an "anti semite" or "neo nazi". If you bothered to ready my posts properly you would see that I have repeatedly pointed out that there are Jews who are holocaust revisionists -

Stop providing links to neo-nazi sites - now have you stopped doing that?

Quote:

You completely ignore this and insist on the name calling. You have zero credibility so why would I waste my time with you.

Oh your NOT a Neo-Nazi then?

'Zero credibility' really hmmmm care to explain why you are making a false statement while trying to pretend you have something to say that isn't false?

Odd

Because no one else will waste their time 'debating' you.....because you seagull bomb stuff then run off and have been doing so for quite some time.

That is your problem not ours.

The problem is you cannot win an argument about the big issues so you are trying to use trivia and minor points to try and say, look 1+2 =3 therefore 6,000,000 doesn't exist - if you get my example.

What would be the estimate of the total numbers of people placed into prison by the Nazi's regime in all countries they occupied (not the number killed). I went looking for that to compare it to the number of people placed in jail for violating the laws in the few countries that have it (I don't agree with that law I might add) against Holocaust denial.

What would be the estimate of the total numbers of people placed into prison by the Nazi's regime in all countries they occupied (not the number killed)

I don't think this question has an answer. The Ordungspolizei were nominally the nationalized "ordinary police" that replaced local city and town police forces in Germany and occupied nations. But they were organized under the military and became just another military force. By the invasion of Poland, they were executing and deporting people wholesale.

I'm sure that in some corners of Germany some dedicated public servants tried to enforce actual laws before judges who somehow didn't give in to corruption. But these guys were probably very rare exceptions.

Oh my another seagull attack by Mondial. I guess you've learned to drop nonsense and run instead of trying to support it? lol

Here is a question for you (oh and you have lots more questions you've avoided up thread too) is there any reason to respond to you? There is no discussion you just post long debunked stuff and run off.

I believe you aren't worth talking too.

I took a look at the validity of our calling Mondial a 'seagull'.

In the past 12 years he's posted 337 times or close to 1 post every two weeks.

A quick review shows that the majority of those posts are one time deposits of links which he refuses to support. He has been going over the same material repeatedly over the last twelve years too. All in the same vein same subjects, etc.

What would be the estimate of the total numbers of people placed into prison by the Nazi's regime in all countries they occupied (not the number killed). I went looking for that to compare it to the number of people placed in jail for violating the laws in the few countries that have it (I don't agree with that law I might add) against Holocaust denial.

Any idea?

Leaving aside regular German prisons (this figure can be found in Wachsmann's book on the prison system), and various special camps, we know that over 700,000 people were held in the KL system by 1945 (IIRC over 2 million people "passed through" the camp system from 1933-1945 - mortality reached about 1.6 million - I got these estimates from a chart Stephen Wheatcroft compiled).

__________________. . . all this would be absurd if it weren't happening, now let's go and eat.
- Jose Saramago, The Stone Raft

Leaving aside regular German prisons (this figure can be found in Wachsmann's book on the prison system), and various special camps, we know that over 700,000 people were held in the KL system by 1945 (IIRC over 2 million people "passed through" the camp system from 1933-1945 - mortality reached about 1.6 million - I got these estimates from a chart Stephen Wheatcroft compiled).

Yes, thanks so that would have been in Germany proper. I wonder how many were arrested in the occupied territories? Thanks for looking that up I couldn't find anything however on a different note I did find this quote about being a 'National socialist"

Quote:

As a native to the country that is responsible for the Nazis, I invite you to consider the following quote by Gerhard Bronner, an Austrian musician and composer:

“There are three things that do not go together: intelligence, decency and national socialism. You can be intelligent and a Nazi. Then you're not a decent person. You can be a decent person and a Nazi. Then you're not intelligent. And you can be intelligent and a decent person. Then you're not a Nazi.”

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