So the biggest issues I see is that lowsec has a very small slice of the incursion payout pie. That likely has way more to do with the actual state of lowsec rather than an inherent issue with incursions.

I agree with @Persifonne. Incursions definitely need a change. Would be great to see them removed from high sec completely, and add a huge bonus to running them in low sec, even bigger bonus than null. Would make sense lore wise as well. Closer an incursion is to empire, the more you should get for trying to stop it.

Uhmmm…isn’t the bonus structure you are suggesting working in the opposite manner though?

Crimson_Draufgange:

The current high sec incursion mechanics are terrible right now though. Like OP said, high sec incursions are ruining the economy. Not even gonna mention null sec botters.

Doesn’t matter, the huge fleets in delve (as you well know) generated over 12,533 Billion (!) Isk last month. Bounties for Delve at the same time was 7,877 Billion isk, an incredible amount, but it pales when compared to mining. WIith you being a member of the group that is raking in such huge numbers, I understand the need to deflect away from the issue when it is brought up. However, this thread is about Incursion and the ISK it produces, even if that number is merely a tiny fraction of Rorquel/mining fleets production.

the huge fleets in delve (as you well know) generated over 12,533 Billion (!) Isk last month

Incorrect. Mining in Delve generated 12.533 bn ISK worth of ore. It did not generate any actual ISK. Mining is a deflationary activity, Ratting is an inflationary one.

The difference is essential when talking about ISK faucets and ISK sinks.

OK, clown.
You want to talk about ISK faucets:
goons, just in Delve alone, created 7.9 trillion in ISK last month.
Or, roughly the same as ALL incursions in the entire game generated.
Or, more bounties than ALL of high sec combined.

Doesn’t matter, the huge fleets in delve (as you well know) generated over 12,533 Billion (!) Isk last month.

No, a more accurate statement is they generated over 12.533 Billion ISK worth of ore/minerals. The difference is that generating ore and sellling it to others is a transaction that makes both parties better off, whereas bounties simply inject additional ISK into the game and as a result it reduces the purchasing power of ISK that already exists and transfers it to the ratter.

So the ore can have distributional effects, but it has little to no effect on inflation.

Buoytender_Bob:

WIith you being a member of the group that is raking in such huge numbers, I understand the need to deflect away from the issue when it is brought up.

No, you are just simply wrong. Producing something has a real effect. Increasing the money supply has a nominal effect and can have real effects too. Further, allowing too much ISK creation can have a deleterious effect on the economy via inflation.

Buoytender_Bob:

However, this thread is about Incursion and the ISK it produces, even if that number is merely a tiny fraction of Rorquel/mining fleets production.

Mining does not result in ISK creation, the mining and selling of ore re-arranges who has the ISK, and the acts of refining and other uses for that ore probably leads to ISK destruction.

This is not a Goons/non-Goons thing, you are just simply wrong in your understanding of how the monetary base in the game works.

Oops you’re right. Evidently I misread the bounty graph that breaks it down into different categories: high, low, and null and mistook it for incursion payout.

It would be interesting to see, but I can only imagine that highsec incursion payouts make up for the majority of the isk… You could say it might would be fair to compare it to bounty payouts, which would almost certainly be made up mostly of Nullsec ratting, and compare how incursions are paying out vs ratting.

There is a group doing mostly full time low sec, which is 50% larger fleet so my guess is low sec is 10-20% of payouts, but yeah, I’d be interested to see how close my guess is to reality some time.
Well, last time I bothered paying attention to incursions there was a group that was running for months doing that anyway.

But The Forge? People buy stuff in there to move to other places. How is it zero?

Who cares? The entire notion of balance of trade has probably resulted in more time wasted than just about anything else ever invented. And time wasted by people who could have done so much more if they stopped worrying about the balance of trade.

People have been trying to put a stake through the heart of this particular vampire since 1776, but it is extremely difficult to kill.