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Character build aside, it would be interesting if you could work some of the instances to leverage the special talents of a burg. Maybe bonuses to an instance or ways to make them easier or at least different. A few examples:

- Burgle a mob for a key to get in to a special area or to a shortcut around tough groups (or maybe to a more strategic attack point)
- Have a special mob deep in the back that only a burg can easily get to and gain some fellowship bonus by taking him out (maybe the other mobs are penalized with lower stat once the boss is out or the fellowship gets a boost in stats)

Something that leverages what makes a burg fun so we have a purpose in a fellowship.

PvMP is a part of the game, and there is no reason it shouldn't receive some consideration in the class development right along with every other aspect of the game. I think that you would find some of the utility and survivability suggestions that seem PvMP oriented would also add quite a bit of fun to the burglar PvE experience, grouped or solo. Kelsan was also the PvMP dev responsible for the changes that came with RoR (correct me if I am mistaken). While there are certainly mixed feelings in the community about how the whole thing played out, ultimately his (is Kelsan a he?) goal was to improve the PvMP experience for all the players. As such, he's fairly tuned in to whats taking place in the moors, considers it an aspect of the game that is worth investing his dev time in generally, and has said it has a lot of potential for growth.

It is quite reasonable for any changes to be worthwhile in PvMP and PvE.

We need a buff to touch and go, a 50% resist rating to go along with our 50% evade; there's some survivability.
To turn our class for the better I think that we just need a new skill:
Decrease incoming healing by 50% for 10 seconds, on a 3 minute cooldown.
Also, one more thing. Give disable a slightly better decrease in melee damage, like 25% or so.

I really think that those little changes would make our class so much stronger, and more valuable to the group. Please consider them.

Is it possible to hear your 3 points Kelsan? I wonder do devs see some probblems in burgs, or they feel class is in good shape. Just want to know with what what we starting

Hey all,
Thanks for the great posts (keep’em coming!), I’m happy to see a lot of passion and desire for meaningful changes. I’m also very pleased to say that my own analysis hits many of the core issues you’ve outlined.

I can’t go too deep into what I’ve been experimenting with, but I wanted to let you know that we are on the same page.

A few general things I agree with and have been attempting to address:
1. Lack of survivability – Both general survival and panic buttons are in need of some love
2. Speed of attacks – Yup, we definitely have some anim issues that hinder the flow of combat.
3. Cool mechanics that lack definition – Tricks, Gambles and the Crit Chain need some fine tuning
4. Legendaries that are less than Legendary

These, of course, aren’t the only things I’m addressing/adding, but I think these are some of the most prominent issues listed in this thread.

I’m hoping to be able to post my analysis of the class in the near-ish future, so stay tuned!

Hey all,
Thanks for the great posts (keep’em coming!), I’m happy to see a lot of passion and desire for meaningful changes. I’m also very pleased to say that my own analysis hits many of the core issues you’ve outlined.

I can’t go too deep into what I’ve been experimenting with, but I wanted to let you know that we are on the same page.

A few general things I agree with and have been attempting to address:
1. Lack of survivability – Both general survival and panic buttons are in need of some love
2. Speed of attacks – Yup, we definitely have some anim issues that hinder the flow of combat.
3. Cool mechanics that lack definition – Tricks, Gambles and the Crit Chain need some fine tuning
4. Legendaries that are less than Legendary

These, of course, aren’t the only things I’m addressing/adding, but I think these are some of the most prominent issues listed in this thread.

I’m hoping to be able to post my analysis of the class in the near-ish future, so stay tuned!

Great news! While there are a lot of individual skill/trait fixes myself and others brought up, I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of the most urgent/important things that need addressing (assuming the general gripes about MM are something that'll get looked at in the trait tree revamp).

A few general things I agree with and have been attempting to address:
1. Lack of survivability – Both general survival and panic buttons are in need of some love
2. Speed of attacks – Yup, we definitely have some anim issues that hinder the flow of combat.
3. Cool mechanics that lack definition – Tricks, Gambles and the Crit Chain need some fine tuning
4. Legendaries that are less than Legendary

I love that we all gave you four (or more) instead of just three, and you did too! ;-)

Originally Posted by Kelsan

I can only type so fast!

Perhaps do what we do, type it out then copy/paste into the forums? For us, it's because the forums log us out and the posts get lost when we click submit, for you, paste here, paste there, posted everywhere!

PS: Editing to add, also amazing that your posts are #130 and #135 in the threads, burg one has 7200 views, 6167 for hunters. Interesting given the assumption of some that there are zillions of hunters playing and nobody ever sees a burg in game.

It's a good sign when the Dev and the hardcore players are on the same page. All I ask is that there are no ridiculous mechanics/class changes that change the core of the Burglar.

The few of us that are fulltime and longtime Burglars play because we love the notion of the class at its core. Up or down, we've stuck with the class. I really don't want to spam Water Lore or ShingShingBubbles.

It's a good sign when the Dev and the hardcore players are on the same page. All I ask is that there are no ridiculous mechanics/class changes that change the core of the Burglar.

The few of us that are fulltime and longtime Burglars play because we love the notion of the class at its core. Up or down, we've stuck with the class. I really don't want to spam Water Lore or ShingShingBubbles.

Best,

Brit

I'm looking to bring the existing picture into focus, not take a new one. Not to say I won't embellish the frame a bit... (oh yeah! drove that metaphor into the ground!)

Very nice to see your reply, and I'm really looking forward to seeing how the changes you are thinking of making will work out.

Just one small question from me (and I don't mean to put any pressure on with it - just curiosity): Any idea about the time-line, do you have an inkling about when we can expect the changes to be implemented?

Although the changes you listed are all very nice, theres one that jumps out for me: The fans finally get communicated with directly! A lovely thing I've missed since we Europians were transferred to Turbine.

+Moose+ tells you, 'Do you still need me to put the smack down on this foe??'

I have had a Burglar main since beta and over the years it has changed quite a bit.
Currently the way I prefer to play it, both solo and in fellowship/raid, is as quiet knife, that way I contribute significantly to DPS with the added significant bonus of CC, conjunctions and debuffs. Even with -5% threat I am still often second on the treat list and if the mob does a threat wipe on the tank survivability is a major issue, even with relatively high evade. Burglars are forced into melee as we have very little in the way of ranged capability (despite the genre tradition of Burglar type classes being very effective with crossbows). Big mobs nowadays often hit for 7-10k or even more and this can quite often be a one hit kill unless mitigated or evaded.
With the up coming changes to Agility I see the ability to regain the Burglar status as an effective DPS as very difficult without making survivability even more problematic. By being forced into moving some our Agility bias into Crit Rating (the main source of Burglar DPS) and into Fate, we will be reducing our evade. I foresee that Burglars are going to be even more squishy and much less effective in battle.
Additionally the fun element of Burgle has been diminished so much that it isn't used much, if you Burgle a level 85 you will often get a level 70-75 potion which is worthless; we should get at least on level items.

Looks like there is a lot of great input already in the works from the community. Here are my 3 cents since you asked for it.

1. Make the MM trait "Tree" worth while. As of now not many people want a MM traited Burg in the raid or fellowship. It takes to much away from the DPS. It would be nice to be what the trait tree implies, a Mischief Maker. Really lousing it up for the mobs and also lousing it up for Monster Players. Make our debuffs more potent or allow us to stack multiple debuffs on a mob.

2. Burglars Advantage really slows up my DPS rotation. I've placed it in front of my crit response chain but it still slows combat for me.
Raging Blades animation is to long, that is why I use... ah you've heard it before.
Enrage is not a very useful skill. I've found ways to use it but it's just worthless.
It would be fun to have a skill that utilizes some thrown daggers give us some ranged options that are not based on crafted Daggers, I would not even mind if the skill used crafted daggers to execute but give us some ranged options, just for kicks.

3. I have not been asked to roll my Burg in raids because we are so darn squishy! Please fix that.

There is much more I would like to add but these 3 are most important to me. Thanks for reading and thanks for taking this class on!

I think we liked how addle worked to skip animations and I think we like how there was a mechanic involved that added some "skill" or advanced knowledge of the class to perform at peak. If this ability had to be removed from our interrupt with a longer cool down, can we get it added back with another immediate skill?

Maybe make Cunning attack or Provoke as an immediate skill. You would save an aspect of play that added depth and understanding wile at the same time keeping true to what a burg is.

Timing addle right to cut off FB as soon as my burg's hands started moving, and still getting the FB hits, was quite satisfying. Felt like I was doing something skilful, and you have to know about it to pull it off, so that was quite cool.

But if we just stick to what we know, where's the development? Who knows, they might come up with something equally satisfying. I'd hate for us to lose the dynamism of our rotation though, at the moment it feels like there are choices being made as we decide which skill to hit, far more than with, say, minstrel (yawn) or hunter (ok, but simple).

How about more melee skills, which offer different balances of debuff/damage, and a variety of timings.

Timing addle right to cut off FB as soon as my burg's hands started moving, and still getting the FB hits, was quite satisfying. Felt like I was doing something skilful, and you have to know about it to pull it off, so that was quite cool.

But if we just stick to what we know, where's the development? Who knows, they might come up with something equally satisfying. I'd hate for us to lose the dynamism of our rotation though, at the moment it feels like there are choices being made as we decide which skill to hit, far more than with, say, minstrel (yawn) or hunter (ok, but simple).

How about more melee skills, which offer different balances of debuff/damage, and a variety of timings.

But please leave counter-defence alone, it rocks as is.

Yes I like Counter D also but it was also nerfed not to long ago to make way for finesse. Maybe CD can be looked at to add a reduction to Crit D. Also Kelsan the LM should also reduce crit D with Sign of Power: see all ends and maybe to a lesser extent Sign of Power: Command.