(Original post by z33)
You don't wanna be treated equal to your male counterparts? You don't want to be paid the same for the same amount of work you do? You don't want to vote? You don't want to have the right to divorce your husband whenever you want to? You don't wanna drive a vehicle? You don't want to become whatever you wanted to? You don't wanna own property for yourself? Well you can go to Saudi Arabia and see how ya like it there, where you're treated like a slave and a sex object. Because that's what feminism has achieved. The bloody definition is:

it never said women and men are equal or one is superior mentally or physically, it's a movement to get the world to treat women as equal to men. EQUALITY. not SUPERIORITY. So for you to just dismiss everything that women in the past have sacrificed their LIVES to give you, then m8 idek what to say like get off the internet and make a sandwich for your man

(Original post by z33)
You don't wanna be treated equal to your male counterparts? You don't want to be paid the same for the same amount of work you do? You don't want to vote? You don't want to have the right to divorce your husband whenever you want to? You don't wanna drive a vehicle? You don't want to become whatever you wanted to? You don't wanna own property for yourself? Well you can go to Saudi Arabia and see how ya like it there, where you're treated like a slave and a sex object. Because that's what feminism has achieved. The bloody definition is:

it never said women and men are equal or one is superior mentally or physically, it's a movement to get the world to treat women as equal to men. EQUALITY. not SUPERIORITY. So for you to just dismiss everything that women in the past have sacrificed their LIVES to give you, then m8 idek what to say like get off the internet and make a sandwich for your man

No, that's not what I said or meant. I mentioned that feminism has become radicalised to the point where women are trying to become superior to men and try to berate them, it's borderline sexism and is not what being a feminist is about. If anything I'm a humanist. You can't deny that a lot of feminists argue over trival things when there are females suffering around the world? I'd rather advocate for human rights not just for females. If men tried to fight back, believing they've been unfairly treated then they'd be faced with backlash.

(Original post by z33)
You don't wanna be treated equal to your male counterparts? You don't want to be paid the same for the same amount of work you do? You don't want to vote? You don't want to have the right to divorce your husband whenever you want to? You don't wanna drive a vehicle? You don't want to become whatever you wanted to? You don't wanna own property for yourself? Well you can go to Saudi Arabia and see how ya like it there, where you're treated like a slave and a sex object. Because that's what feminism has achieved. The bloody definition is:

IMAGE

it never said women and men are equal or one is superior mentally or physically, it's a movement to get the world to treat women as equal to men. EQUALITY. not SUPERIORITY. So for you to just dismiss everything that women in the past have sacrificed their LIVES to give you, then m8 idek what to say like get off the internet and make a sandwich for your man

The Gender Pay Gap was debunked years ago as flawed research. The fact that mainstream media and governments still fling it as truth and the public still believe it is revolting.

Most men couldn't vote either unless they owned land with an annual value of £10, which basically excluded eight out of nine people. Women were also allowed to own property. I believe they had to inherit it. It was passed over to the husband during marriage but she still owned before that point.

Yes, feminism has its members who will take it to the extreme, as every movement does. Feminism is extremely important and anyone who doesn't think so is either too stupid to realise it or is so wrapped up in the misogynistic culture that they are unable to see there is an issue. The reason why people are against feminism is because they do not understand it. I have already seen responses of the 'women just want to rule men' nature and they are ill-informed, childish ideas. Yes, there are women out there who want to rule men, but these people represent the extremes of society and not the general population. (Do the KKK represent all Christians, no. Do ISIS represent all Muslims, no. Does a group of football hooligans represent football fans across the world, no.) Please apply this logic here.
True feminism is about equality for everyone, for men and women everywhere.

I would also like to quickly address the issue of the biological differences. Yes, we are biologically different which lends itself to different skill sets. Despite this, there is such a thing as masculine and feminine. Let's take a stereotypically 'male' job, a builder. If i was having someone build my house i would want somebody with a set of characteristics that would allow them to do a great job. If there is a biological female who is strong and knows about that trade then why does society have such a problem with it? Also if there was a male who was caring and great with kids, why would you not want him to be a nursery nurse? If you don't have a problem, you are a feminist.

I would call myself the dictionary definition of a feminist: someone who believes in equality between the genders which INCLUDES more equality in situations where men are likely to be discriminated against. I dislike what feminism seems to have become and I do know that there are some things that scientifically keep women from being completely equal to men, but I believe in equal opportunity for both genders in general.

(Original post by z33)
you don't wanna be treated equal to your male counterparts? You don't want to be paid the same for the same amount of work you do? You don't want to vote? You don't want to have the right to divorce your husband whenever you want to? You don't wanna drive a vehicle? You don't want to become whatever you wanted to? You don't wanna own property for yourself? Well you can go to saudi arabia and see how ya like it there, where you're treated like a slave and a sex object. Because that's what feminism has achieved. The bloody definition is:

it never said women and men are equal or one is superior mentally or physically, it's a movement to get the world to treat women as equal to men. Equality. Not superiority. So for you to just dismiss everything that women in the past have sacrificed their lives to give you, then m8 idek what to say like get off the internet and make a sandwich for your man

I think its easy to try and approach feminism diplomatically, to say it has no place in society, when actually, without movements like this, things today would be pretty different. Feminism is always seen as this relatively new, idealistic movement BUT ITS NOT!!! Its like any other movement e.g. apartheid-the idea of black people and white people sitting together was disgusting to most people, but black people rightly stood up for themselves; people didn't like it at first, but look at society now!! Racism is seen as a disgusting thing. How do we expect society to progress if people don't want to change their fixed mindsets?? ugh

(Original post by Rhythmical)
No, that's not what I said or meant. I mentioned that feminism has become radicalised to the point where women are trying to become superior to men and try to berate them, it's borderline sexism and is not what feminist is about. If anything I'm a humanist. You can't deny that a lot of feminists argue over trival things when there are females suffering around the world? I'd rather advocate for human rights not just for females. If men tried to fight back, believing they;ve been unfairly treated then they'd be faced with backlash.

(Original post by Vennec)
The Gender Pay Gap was debunked years ago as flawed research. The fact that mainstream media and governments still fling it as truth and the public still believe it is revolting.

Most men couldn't vote either unless they owned land with an annual value of £10, which basically excluded eight out of nine people. Women were also allowed to own property. I believe they had to inherit it. It was passed over to the husband during marriage but she still owned before that point.

Alright fair enough. The fight is only to be equal to men not to be superior to them still. But that argument is more for human rights, since men couldn't vote just because they didn't own land. If a woman owned land with an annual value of £10 she wouldn't have been able to vote either, that's the problem. The poor man not being able to vote isn't because he's a man, it's because he is poor, whereas women couldn't vote solely because of their gender.
They had to inherit it, and it was passed over to the husband. Men just earned it, and when they married a women all her belongings became theirs just like that and they could pass them on. Like that doesn't look like a privilege to me

(Original post by Paige_Oddy)
Let's take a stereotypically 'male' job, a builder. If i was having someone build my house i would want somebody with a set of characteristics that would allow them to do a great job. If there is a biological female who is strong and knows about that trade then why does society have such a problem with it? Also if there was a male who was caring and great with kids, why would you not want him to be a nursery nurse? If you don't have a problem, you are a feminist.

I don't have a problem and I agree with your reasoning, but I am not a feminist and you cannot tell someone "if you believe this, you are this".

I feel like a movement has an cause, like Feminism's intent that all people should be considered equal, and everything else that actualises the cause, which is composed of all sorts of things: actions of its members, history, the collective of people that make up the movement...

I mostly agree that Feminism's intent is right -- but equal *opportunities*. I don't think people should be *equal* but that they should have the same *opportunities* presented to them -- which I think is a better example of Feminism's intent, when it isn't watered down and simplified to "all people equal", which is markedly different)

Thing is, I can't get past the actual feminist movement. So much radicalism, terrible reasoning, and misinformation. People get riled up, too. It culminates in a lot of really dumb arguments over really quite important things.

Egalitarianism has precisely the same intent as modern feminism, but without all the surrounding junk. So while I agree with the feminist intent, I'm absolutely not a feminist; I don't belong in that movement of *people*.

Feminism supposedly fights for gender equality, but only from the perspective of women. That's the key problem with it. Feminists are so carried away with percieved injustices towards women, women's rights, women's issues, and so on, that feminism often becomes incredibly biased and un-equal in its approach. Inequalities men face (sometimes at the hand of modern feminism itself) are frequently ignored, derided, or even encouraged as a result. And now we have a situation where women in the West are running out of problems, so they have to exaggerate or even make them up entirely!

(Original post by z33)
Alright fair enough. The fight is only to be equal to men not to be superior to them still. But that argument is more for human rights, since men couldn't vote just because they didn't own land. If a woman owned land with an annual value of £10 she wouldn't have been able to vote either, that's the problem. The poor man not being able to vote isn't because he's a man, it's because he is poor, whereas women couldn't vote solely because of their gender.
They had to inherit it, and it was passed over to the husband. Men just earned it, and when they married a women all her belongings became theirs just like that and they could pass them on. Like that doesn't look like a privilege to me

What does things that happened over 100 years ago have to do with a debate today about equality?

feminism is not about equality, it's about female political opportunism
if you want to quote me the dictionary definition of feminism to imply that it's a movement for equality, then I can equally quote you the dictionary definition of the MRA movement to tell you that MRAs aren't about sexism but merely male rights activism.
but the thing about feminism is that women aren't looking for equality, they are obviously looking for ways to one up men now because they have more than equality - they have legal privilege (*and* many cultural privileges). I'm not saying they're privileged in every single manner - I am saying that they have it measurably better than men in the western world, to the point where the idea of equal reproductive rights is seen as "sexist" even though it's literally about giving men equality of rights before the law when reproduction is involved. anybody who thinks women have it worse than men has no clue about how the law/legal system works in most western nations. sure, it's terrible in the middle east and africa, but are those nations really strong examples of nations today? I could say that people in most countries are improverished and therefore conclude that people in the UK are impoverished. that's what feminism is like.