Tuesday, 3 November 2009

Levi Johnston talks about the parentage of Trig on "The Insider" - and drops a few little bombshells (Video)

We already know what Levi had said in general yesterday on "The Insider" about the parentage of Trig, but the video clip which is available from today of this particular part of the conversation about who is Trig's mother is still fascinating to watch:

It is noteworthy that Levi says at the beginning of the conversation that Trig is Sarah's baby "to my knowledge", and then shortly afterwards, after being pressed further by the panel with questions such as "Did you see her pregnant?", he answers with the toned-down "as far as I know, yeah".

That is interesting, because in my last post I already pointed out that there is no apparent reason why Levi shouldn't know the whole truth about Trig's parentage with absolute certainty - as he was apparently "present" when everything happened, including the birth of Trig. However, from his wording on "The Insider" it appears that hemerely thinks that "Trig is Sarah's baby". It is not my impression from the interview on "The Insider" that he has actual "first-hand" knowledge about the parentage. Otherwise he certainly would have said it in a much stronger way.

There are several other comments from Levi which allow us to add more pieces to the overall puzzle. He says that Bristol takes advice from her mom, and that friends told Levi that Bristol said that Sarah wanted him out of her life.

Furthermore, he "knows things", but is not sure whether they will ever come out. He never heard anything about Sarah cheating, and he "thinks" that Todd is Trig's father. Levi doesn't come across very firm on this point, either - and we should not forget that according to Levi's description in Vanity Fair, Sarah and Todd "didn't talk to each other once the cameras had left" and that he "never saw them sleep in the same bedroom". Levi even said in Vanity Fair directly: "I don't know HOW she got pregnant".

Now to our little bombshells: For the first time ever, as far as I can recall, Levi talks about the fact that his relationship with Bristol was an "on and off" relationship, although he remains quite cryptic. Being asked whether there was any infidelity between him and Bristol, did Bristol ever cheat on you, did you ever stray out of the relationship, he says: "We both kinda...you know, it was my freshman year, when we first started dating, I did."

So, here we have some news: Levi now admits that Bristol and Levi were unfaithful to each other. We certainly don't want to make any moral judgement calls here. What is interesting from our point of view is that this admission raises questions regarding the fact of who the father of Bristol's babies might be. Make no mistake: From all we know so far, including reliable inside information, Bristol is the mother of both babies. Levi's admission about the unfaithfulness also doesn't come as a surprise to us: From Bristol's Myspace-comments (the ones which were overlooked and not scrubbed), we know that Bristol was incredibly interested in Johnny C. in the first half of 2007 and openly exchanged romantic messages with him. She even told Johnny C. on May 14, 2007 that Sarah Palin overheard one of their conversations and that Sarah now thought that Bristol was pregnant.

But the conversation on "The Insider" is not finished at this point. After Levi has explained that he and Bristol were unfaithful to each other at times, the interviewer then asks "But once you had Tripp...", Levi responds "No, everything was cool".

Wait a minute! Tripp was born on December 27, 2008, wasn't he? Levi Johnston explains in Vanity Fair that he proposed to Bristol in July 2008. Surely things were already stable at that time, right? In Vanity Fair he also reveals that he broke up with Bristol in February 2009. So, without putting too much emphasis on one small part of the conversation, I would like to point out that this whole description of events basically doesn't make much sense, because a few weeks after Tripp was born, Levi and Bristol broke up. Like so much else in this whole Sarah-Bristol-Levi saga it barely fits together.

204 comments:

Thank you, Regina and Patrick and Kathleen and crew. The level of discourse here is a breath of fresh air from the comments on the "news" articles.

On another thread, a commenter broached the hypothesis that Levi actually was never told who fathered T1. That the Palin family sequestered Bristol and kept all possible information to themselves. That sounds like standard operating procedure for this clan. And Levi, nearly two years ago, was a political innocent. Now? On one of the insider tapes, one of the inquisitors asks him if he is deliberately using drips and hints to push this clan to let him see his son. And he says "That's exactly what I'm doing." Maybe Rex and Tank are giving him excellent coaching?

I'm hoping that this mess winds up in court. And that the judge orders DNA tests on both baby boys. Then we'll have a conclusion, finally! grammy

From the ABC News article:So much for separation of Church and State – I would like to know who provided the church lists and the names of the pastors who made the robocalls and if they identified if they were their pastor:

“The Virginia Faith and Freedom Coalition put together the call list by matching up church lists with records of who had voted in recent elections. The targets included both high propensity and lower propensity voters.”

“In addition to Palin, the Virginia Faith and Freedom Coalition has used Huckabee as well as local pastors to make robocalls to Virginia voters in advance of Tuesday's vote.”

As has been commented on in other blogs, one wonders about the "truthiness" of some of Levi's comments. "Is Trig Sarah's baby?" If Levi knows or believes she adopted him, the answer can legitimately be yes. "Did you see her pregnant?" Here more waffling is needed. But Marcy's scenario also has the ring of truth. I wouldn't hold my breath for DNA testing, though: nobody with standing is disputing the parentage or visitation rights for T1.

If you recall we discussed the possibility of Levi not being Trig's father or him not being a part of this deception on PD many months ago. Many of us came to the conclusion that Levi at least thought that he was the father because of the Sadie "Triggybear" pictures and of course, the later picture of tiny Trig being tenderly held by Levi. And then it was the tender kiss of Trig by Levi at the convention, Levi all of a sudden helping with special olympics etc. IMO these things point to Levi being Trig's father. But is this actually the case?

I once mentioned that I thought it was strange that the rumor was that Sarah sent Bristol away in the late Fall of 2007 to get her away from Levi. She supposedly went to live with her aunt in Anchorage and Levi would come to visit. And then we heard that Bristol moved with her Aunt because she didn't want to go to school in Juneau (sp?) and she couldn't stay in Wasilla due to no supervision. (What about her grandparents - they lived in Wasilla?) Is it possible that he did not visit Bristol in Anchorage until after she gave birth to Trig - like late January? Did Levi even know that Bristol was pregnant but sort of assumed she was and just thinks that Trig can possibly be his? Bristol probably never came clean to Levi since Sarah has such control over her. And it could be possible that Bristol knows that Levi is not the father of Trig. I agree with this post that all signs point to Bristol possibly having other lovers.

Sarah was not pregnant so Trig belongs to somebody. I think that somebody is Bristol but this situation with Levi is just curious. He can't exactly confirm that Sarah was pregnant even though he says that he was at the hospital when she "had the baby". Now something is just not right about this whole thing.

Tensions within John McCain's presidential campaign boiled over on Election Night last November when Sarah Palin, McCain's running mate, repeatedly ignored directions from senior staffers who told her she would not be delivering her own concession speech.

(details - see link)

More revelations:

– In the days after her selection as the vice presidential nominee, the McCain team was so unsure of Palin's policy acumen that they drew up hundreds of flash cards to get the candidate "up to speed on foreign affairs and major national issues." One of the flash cards noted that the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom was Gordon Brown, the book says.

– During a celebration among staffers after the vice presidential debate in St. Louis, Palin began pushing hard to start bringing up the topic of Barack Obama's controversial pastor Jeremiah Wright on the campaign trail. She wanted badly to win the election, the authors note. "I just don't want to go back to Alaska," Palin said off-handedly during the gathering.

Thank you for your great comment. I also think that we now have to seriously consider the possibility that Levi was actually not informed about Bristol's pregnancy with Trig. Another scenario is that Levi is allowed to say the truth about Trig due to a strict agreement, which also basically would give him the "permission to lie" about the subject. I am undecided yet on this issue.

Kathleen @ 15:40, I am not flirting with Patrick! I adore you too! And Regina, Bree, Leah, Helen, Ennealogic, Grypen, and (almost, but you know who I mean) all the people who comment here. I have every confidence that with the combined efforts of all of these fine people, Sarah Palin's fake pregnancy will be exposed conclusively (IMO, it already has been), and will go into the history books as the most outrageous hoax in American politics.

That’s not even counting all of the other “gates”.

In recent weeks, everything is imploding on Sarah, and she can only blame herself for being a sanctimonious liar, hypocrite and greedy thief. And IMO, a cruel mother for what she has done to Bristol.

While taking swipes at bloggers -- "probably sitting there in their parents' basement, wearing their pajamas" -- Palin also misstated some facts. She complained to Lauer about "the rumors, the speculation, even in mainstream media, that Trig wasn't actually my child, that Trig was somebody else's child and I faked a pregnancy," calling that "absolutely ridiculous."

In fact, no mainstream outlet published the Internet rumors until the McCain campaign issued a statement, during the GOP convention, that Palin's teenage daughter Bristol was pregnant. McCain officials told reporters they were putting out the news because of inquiries about whether the governor was really Trig's mother.

I'm a firm believer in the Bristol x 2 scenario; to me, that was confirmed when T2's birthdate was concealed. But I've always thought it was possible that Levi wasn't the father of T1; there are all those stories of Bristol partying. Levi was around at the beginning of the campaign, though, and I suppose Sarah didn't want people to think her daughter was a tramp. (Too late, Sarah.) I find Levi's answers interesting, but agree that the wrong questions were asked. I think Levi thinks he may be Trig's genetic father- the gentle cuddling and kiss at the RNC isn't something you'd expect from a sister's boyfriend- but if he agreed to let Sarah and Todd take Trig, then "I think he is [the father]" is technically correct.

Really, the only firm answer to Trig's parentage will be genetic testing, and unless Levi challenges Sarah, I don't see that happening. And I don't see Levi doing that. But, oh how I would love it if Levi would grab a few strands of Trig's hair and get it compaired to his own DNA. Or swab inside his cheek. Heck, I'd contribute to that project, and I bet a lot of others would.

I think Levi might not know for sure who Trig's Father is. I think he still has feelings for Bristol, and does not want to say anything terrible about her. In essence, he is still protecting the mother of his son. If you think about it, a young man's pride is sometimes the only thing he has. If he admits he is not Trig's Father, then he also admits to being cuckhold and he is the laughing stock of the entire world. What man will admit that?On the other hand, if he IS Trigs Daddy, and he did give up Trig, he has been part of the big cover-up. He also runs the risk of being outed, and perhaps he does not want this to come out. He's a young man, inexperienced and unsophisticated.

WHY, oh why does Megamouth keep referring to this dingbat as The Governor? I could see it if she'd served as Gov for a couple terms, but 2.5 years? Uh uh. Again, drawing attention to the negative is Meg's specialty.

Well, this interview blows one of my theories out of the water, IF Levi is telling the truth. I had thought it possible that Sarah seduced Levi and had Trig prematurely in January, with Todd never knowing she was pregnant and being fooled into thinking the child was Bristol's. But here he says quite unequivocally that Sarah never came on to him sexually.

He never says that Sarah was pregnant, only that she is Trig's mother, which she would be if she has adopted the baby. Nasty, deceptive wordplay, but a possibility. I keep coming back to two "facts" that any scenario we come up with must explain, namely:

1) Levi's obvious affection toward Trig, as demonstrated in Merecede's Triggy Bear photos, plus in the "iconic" kiss at the Convention. These would seem to suggest that he thinks Trig is his biological son.

2) Todd's obvious affection towards Trig, as demonstrated in the Greta footage taken on the campaign bus, and in the still from the picnics where Todd is holding a laughing Trig on his shoulders, etc. This is in such sharp contrast to the look of disdain and hatred Sarah displays every time she has to hold him, that it's obvious Todd thinks that child is either his son or his grandson, and loves him.

Fact 1 argues against Levi believing Sarah gave birth to Trig (as opposed to her simply being "Trig's mother," which could leave the door open to adoption)

Fact 2 argues against Sarah having had Trig by another father, unless Todd is himself ignorant and believes the child belongs to Bristol and is therefore his grandson. Remember what the McCain people said, that Sarah trusts no one in her family? That tells us that she lies to her own family (people always suspect other people of doing what they do themselves). So I can see her telling a lie of this magnitude to her husband and getting Bristol to go along with it.

Another thing to remember is that in RG, Max Blumenthal says that Bristol went to live with her aunt because she was angry with Sarah for being so controlling and manipulative. Many here have a tendency to see that move as Sarah banishing Bristol, but it could just as easily be an angry Bristol moving out after Sarah forced her to get an abortion, or after Sarah tried to force her to get an abortion and Bristol refused.

Every time Levi opens his mouth he confuses things more. I am coming to the conclusion that Levi's Big Secret has nothing to do with Babygate but is actually something illegal she did as governor. I don't think he has any plans to tell us anything about Trig. I'm getting very frustrated with him--but I gotta admit, he looks very cute in his new haircut and when he's clean shaven!

anon 1724, They stated what motivated them to put the story out. It made the story that Sarah faked less believable. If Sarah could wear an empathy belly or a pillow, McCain could have had some pros come in to fit Bristol. They did choose a tight dress, too.

I wish we knew what went on behind the scenes in putting on some of these Tabloid TV programs. I know from watching Letterman that the guest is often pre-interviewed by a staff member, questions are agreed on ahead of time. That way, Dave can say something along the lines of, "I hear that you just got back from Africa...."

It may be that Rex Butler stated ahead of time that the only question that the panel on Insider could ask was the way we heard it, instead of asking, "Did Sarah give birth to Trig, you can tell us, you say that you were at the hospital at 6 AM....."

The scenario that makes sense to me is that the amnio test was done either to determine the health of the baby (Trig) in case he was to be adopted out, or to determine paternity.

I think that Levi believes that he is the father. If there were other possible fathers for Trig, clever Sarah may have selected the one who would be most easily controlled. I don't know anything about the other candidates, but one might have had smart parents who would scream "DNA test!"

I am still trying to figure out what Levi's game is, dangling bits of information. If he really had something to say, I don't think that he would have any trouble selling his book. If he really is a father being denied his rights to see his kid(s), he has a case in court. If he is just trying to cash in on his 15 minutes, then he isn't much better than greedy $arah. (I think the money is tempting but I don't think that's the most important thing to Levi).I think that some of it involves ego, meaning, he was all set to marry Bristol, be part of an exciting family that might be moving to Washington DC. Now that he is no longer useful and they dropped him, he felt hurt.

From the moment that I began reading PD more than a year ago, I am still caught up in the Palin Soap Opera. Sarah's story is not believable. People in the McCain group may know more details, since they were the ones scrubbing pictures and files. Maybe one of them will think about cashing in at National Enquirer or write a book. Can't wait!

Why would an interviewer ask Levi if Sarah came on to him? Really, think about it, no evidence whatsoever for such a question. So, what prompted that question? Seems like she's reading the blogs and writing the questions to silence babygate. And I bet he was promised more visitation after that first interview, too!

I did not know that Gryphen holds the opinion that Bristol is NOT Trig's mother. This does not conform with the information we have received from Alaska, I can say this straight away, but as always, we will look into this.

I would have to see evidence for Gryphens theory before I can believe or assess it. I hope that the details of what it exactly is that Gryphen knows will be published soon.

Whether Bristol is Trig's mother is a sideshow. It's unfortunate that so much weight has been given to that story to bolster the idea that Sarah Palin faked a pregnancy. The real issue is whether Sarah Palin gave birth to Trig.

So Gryphen "knew" that Bristol didn't give birth to Trig 6 months ago. That was a secret he had to keep? Was he going to get sued by saying "my informants say that Bristol is NOT the mother of Trig", it makes no sense.

"This is beautiful because this can surely help a grieving family after losing a child,” Governor Palin said. “I'm thankful that Alaska's legislature recognizes how important a step like this is as Alaska embraces a culture of life and respects precious babies, including babies stillborn, but still loved by their families. Alaskans respect this sanctity of life and I appreciate Representative Gatto's efforts."

“HB 2 gives recognition that the mom of a stillborn child indeed had a birth and now will be able to request and receive a birth certificate stating that ‘yes, you delivered a precious child,’” Representative Gatto said.

Gryphen is NOW claiming he has known for 6 months from his super secretive sources that Bristol nor Levi are the parents of Trig after listening to this video.

Not for nothing Patrick but you all that work deligently to expose Palin should blacklist Immoral Minority. Gryphen is a fameseeker and even if what he says he knows he knows, he is worse than Rex & Tank at exploiting for his own agenda.

Gryphen at IM said today that Trig is not Bristol's or Levi's baby. So we have another clue to help us.I would like us to consider earlier information that might be important now:

1. Bristol's comment to Kaila on her MySpace page:June 25 :( Now I'm a mother duck for that baby!

2. As midnight cajun said above, Levi is obviously affectionate toward Trig, as demonstrated in Merecede's Triggy Bear photos, plus in the "iconic" kiss at the Convention. Sadie even called Trig "her new baby brother TriggyBear" http://www.palindeception.com/subpages/subpage10.htmlSo if Trig really is her brother, then one of his parents would have to be one of Sadie and Levi's parents.

3. Between Sherry and Keith Johnston, I think it is more likely that Sherry could be the parent that makes Trig the "new baby brother" of Sadie and Levi. On the Tyra Banks show, Sherry was very emotional about not being able to see the baby (ostensibly Tripp). The sting operation to catch her selling oxy and the subsequent refusal of the DA to negotiate with Sherry's attorney until AFTER Sarah resigned raise huge red flags of Sarah's involvement.

4. Some very interesting comments were posted on Palin's Deceptions blog back in January:

Fly on the Wall said... Exceptional Workmanship, Truth for Trig Fellowship. Here is the clue that all posters here at this site need: do the needed research into all members of the Johnston family and then do the research needed into all members of the Palin family. Then and only then will you find the true connection between the two families. Audrey, you are a true American Patriot!January 11, 2009 8:24 AM https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?postID=9078030874560390742&blogID=4091845104881454109&isPopup=false&page=2

5. Then Alex posted this comment:Is it possible that someone who knows IS telling us that none of the Palin women bore Trig-- but that a woman in the Johnston family did? And that Sarah is trolling this site-- and trying to lead us away from Sherry Johnston? Did Sherry get arrested to scare her into silence? What if Trig were the brother of both Levi and Bristol (or brother/nephew)? Wouldn't that forge a kind of bizarre relational bond for teens already in love and explain the obvious love they displayed at the convention for the baby?

Very very intriguing, Fly. I like it.January 11, 2009 2:58 PM

Then Fly on the wall responded:Fly on the Wall said...To Alex: Yes, thank you! Some good old fashioned common sense! It is also not so far fetched of a conspiracy theory to assume that it might not be Sherry Johnston but Mercedes “Sadie” Johnston! Can you imagine how mad SP was when she found out about the MySpace page? She might have put the pictures up on MySpace to show them to Track Palin because he wanted to SEE a picture of his son (or officially adopted brother).January 11, 2009 4:02 PM___________________________________

I don't know who Trig's birth mother is. I think these were interesting comments and may have some relation to the story.

6. Could Bristol have had a stillborn child during the time all this was going on? And as a result, Sarah and Rep. Gatto pushed the bill on birth certificates for stillborn babies?

Something you will NEVER hear said in Alaska: A Legislator did something out of the goodness of his heart. Nope. If a bill is presented up here, it's either something they can personally profit from, or something they can use to hide behind. You can take that to the bank

SP faked a pregnancy, right in front of her constituents. Had it been for protecting a daughter and grandson, her followers would have made her a martyr, no doubt. According to Gryphen today, that's not going to happen.

Regarding that bill for a stillborn birth certificate, what if a mother was told the baby died, but really it didn't? Or, maybe, the mother told the father the baby was stillborn, but it wasn't. Instead, she gave it away to do God's work and she has a birth certificate to prove he was stillborn!

Whatever, SP faked a pregnancy and told a wild ride story for political gain, you betcha! And I think her church folks were involved to insure a win!

I tried to tell you. From my Palins Deceptions 2 blog, I told you over and over that Bristol is not Trigs mother. But you were just not having it. I told you, you would get nowhere following that trail. Palin and Bristol want you on that trail. They want you to believe that Bristol is Trigs mother, thats why they dont refute the story or answer any questions. The truth is worse than you believing that Palin covered up Bristols pregnancy and passed it off as her own. I dont know how much Gryphen knows, but I do know it is not enough.

If the truth ever does come out, it wont, but if it did it would make even some of you feel sorry for Sarah Palin.

I put a comment up over at IM on the thread where Gryphen just said Levi or Bristol are NOT parents of Trig, but so far it has not cleared moderation.

Topic is that I have considered in the past Sherry being the mother, and that looking at all of the members of the two families, who has been most kept from speaking? Sherry Johnston.

With the actual Johnston family computers scrubbed - WOW! Not just MySpace, but whole computers. A whole different level of coverup. And also a handler at the door who pretended to be a friend, to answer reporter's questions. And of course now Sherry is in prison, after a bust that was politically timed, as was stated by the police investigating but then denied by those higher up the chain.

And of course Sarah's high school old flame, director of Prisons stayed in place, rather than move to Lite Guv as he was supposed to do when Parnell assumed the office of Guv.

Finally, the weird Greta interview with Bristol, when Tripp is first introduced, but Sarah seems to surprise everyone by suddenly appearing with Tripp. Greta said she was expecting "the other grandmother", but Sarah says, oh we were just walking by the river and decided to stop by, or something similar.

Greta looked surprised, Bristol looked surprised but with suppressed anger. There was no room for Sarah in the shot and she had to hunch over to clear lighting etc while bringing in Tripp. Weirdest entrance into an interview I have ever seen. Greta gives the impression Sherry was going to bring in Tripp, but later in the interview when the lighting, seating etc was properly set up.

So what does that mean? Sarah shows up and takes Tripp away from Sherry and says "you're not going anywhere near that camera"?

Remember, Sherry used to make some interesting comments that did not agree with the Palin line. She appeared on a few interviews, too. Then soon after she got locked up awaiting sentencing, in a very public fashion (as compared to Todd's half sister's breaking and entering with a child that has not had much press coverage by comparison).

So I don't know what to make of Gryphen's claim, but it IS interesting to observe just how extreme the effort to silence Sherry and other Johnston family members has been. I'll bet that Palin's book has even more to smear the family so that whatever they say is not believed.

Although I think Gryphen uses the story to keep readership, if he really does know anything that is true, I doubt he will ever spill it. Thats why he continues to tease. No one who does know wants to be responsible for the fallout.

BlueTx, the truth may be sad...it may be horrifying...it may possibly make some of us feel a little sorry for $P.But, whatever the truth, it can't excuse $P using a disabled child as a prop for political gain. If she adopted him, fine. She didn't have to weave a tale of her "choice" to gain political favor with the religious right. There are many, many people who won't be able to let their sympathy extend that far.

Sarah Palin was in line for being the VP of this country. She was the governor for a state. She has wielded power around and hurt many people, and many still, for whatever reason, stay silent to protect her and those around there. (Which completely blows my mind)

Sarah still has delusions of grandeur, and it needs to stop.

I doubt whomever Palin is covering for won't be hurt--there probably will be sympathy for them. It will be Palin herself that will be hurt because she helped hide whatever-this-is with a fake pregnancy--she lied LIED to an entire state, and then a country--world. Made us all look like fools--and continues to make a portion of our population look like fools because they believe her.

Someone needs to be brave and come forward with the information that Palin was not pregnant during early 2008.

I also wanted to say the birth certificate initiative for stillbirths is very interesting.

A little background: gun shows are very interesting places. Besides guns and all sorts of holsters and gear of every kind, they are also places that people with some interesting views gather, for instance anti-government survivalist types, and militia types. I am not saying everybody, just some.

And you will find there a variety of interesting literature. It's been a few years since I last went, but one big publisher that I think may have gone out of business is Loompanics. But back in the day, you would see at the gun shows big collections of books by Loompanics and others. How to get a fake identity was often a big topic in some of these books. How to hide things from the governmnet, how to survive war, etc.

People attracted to a separatist type of party such as the Alaska Independence Party are some who would go to these gun shows where you see all of this literature.

And fake identity 101 is to get a birth certificate. This is much harder now than it used to be, thanks to changes since 9/11. But the basic idea used to be this:Search public records to find somebody near your age, but that died. Then you get a copy of their birth certificate. Now, usually this advice was for adults who wanted a fake identity. Once you had the birth certificate, you could get all kinds of other documents. Most people were not trying to get fake identities for infants, however.

But lets say you DID want to get a fake identity for an infant, using the advice of the small press gun show books. What better than to have a new bill that allows you to get a birth certificate for a still birth, especially if you had one in your family or close circle of friends, and you want to assume a new identity for an adopted child that they are actually the stillbirth child?

What would be interesting to know is if these stillbirth certificates don't mention the infant was born dead? Do they then have a separate death certificate? If so, then you can see how one of these birth certificates could be used for a phony identity.

I guarantee you that most people who are big into gun shows and separatism or militias will have heard of these schemes. Therefore it is interesting that these are the folks who project the fake birth certificate hooey onto President Obama. But the same kind of folks back in Wasilla might be up to something else with some of these stillborn birth certificates. I am starting to wonder if that is what was meant by Gryphen and the talk of the birth dates.

This would fit in with CBG, adoptions, coverups, and babies appearing after 6 week gestations. If something like this is involved, no wonder Gryphen says it is huge. It also could even make it technically true that Trig both is and isn't really Bristol's son. This just gets weirder.

It makes me wonder if this May 2009 bill now allows a birth certificate that "fits" for Palin's needs. Gryphen says the birth dates are the key. IF he is correct, and I just don't know if he is, I am thinking a stillbirth on a particular date might be the key to how one baby becomes another baby, as it seemed Gryphen implied in the past.

@ 19:16 Anonymous said...I continue to believe adoption, teen age hormones, Baldwin-Johnson, Rep Gatto and church are central to unraveling this mystery****You folks are finally catchin' on

I've been on that page for a long time. I don't have answers, but skip 98% of the theories. I'd like to see things like the CBJ letter vetted better. Is there any word from Doris Kearns Goodman?

Sunshine1970 said...Someone's leg is being pulled, here, IMHO. That is wise to consider. All possibilities need a certain amount of exploration. If only to prove them wrong.

It works for Palin to have mega confusion and the crazy lunatic birther vibe. Why would she not "leak" a fake lead? I don't believe Sarah Palin was pregnant with #5 child. Not so sure after that. I think Gryphen is sincrere, don't know his sources. PERPLEXED. QUESTIONS....Palin family&Johnston family

I'd like to know more about Wasilla "church" beliefs and child raising techniques. Schools and home schools.What do they teach? Not teach? What part are alcohol and drugs playing here? It is only the Johnston family with drug problems?

Levi doesn't mention the bust when McCain was involved. It must be very important.

CC,I dont ask that you believe me, and Im not trying to convince anyone of anything anymore. I was over that when some information that came my way made me want to shut down my own blog. I dont even know why I commented now. Maybe it was just a little vindication with Gryphens reveal that Bristol is not Trigs mom. I tried to tell you all just that when I had PD2. I dont know the urge to say I told you so was too overwhelming.

I mentioned in the last sentence of my post that my questions were asked politely and with respect. I didn't say I didn't believe you, I just wanted to know what your connection is to this story .. i.e. inner sanctum, etc... I'm sure you can understand how frustrating this is for all of us.

BlueTx, I don't need the truth to come out to see Sarah Palin as a tragic figure that some could pity. Like Ted Bundy had pitiful circumstances. Bristol Palin is even more pitiful, whatever the truth is. She is part of the crimes and the child abuse. She will pass on the tragedies until the truth does come out.

and is that really more important that stopping a full-blown lunatic who is sowing hatred and lies amongst the ignorant people in this country? NO, it absolutely is not, and therefore is very difficult to believe that they are letting palin skate because they are protecting someone else.

"""So, here we have some news: Levi now admits that Bristol and Levi were unfaithful to each other. We certainly don't want to make any moral judgement calls here."""

Actually Levi admits that he was unfaithful. I haven't read anything about Bristol's behavior.

However, on another note, there will be nothing from Levi about any illegal behavior. How could he possibly know? He could not, as if he know, the odds are that someone else knew, and given the number of Sarah Palin's political enemies, that someone would most likely not keep quiet. The whole book has been thrown at Sarah Palin, and she still stands. Levi can't harm her.

"We've gotten reports that people are standing there, covered with Hoffman stickers and yelling anti-choice stuff at voters," said O'Neill, a St. Lawrence native who has been running the party's GOTV effort for Bill Owens in NY-23.

Miss Wasilla's crazies are out in force. They will regret voting for Hoffman.

I reeeaaally hate to agree with Jesse Cornish...but (says gritting through teeth) he's right. Palin does still stand. She may have quit being a governor, but that hasn't stopped her from being a media darling--even negative attention is good. She thrives on it. Even if she is never in politics again, and I see that as highly likely, she will always have a following.

She is now a celebrity for being a celebrity. Can't wait till she's on Dancing with the Stars

Yes it was a parody of sorts. It was not pro-palin as PD mods suggest. You could call it pro-Bristol a bit. It was really an anti PD welcome to reality kind of blog. I could not stand the crazy whacked out false theories being propagated by PD so I felt the need to right them some.

Interesting isnt it that what I said was true way back then and PD fought so hard against, is now corraborated by one of your own bloggers. But you could always still follow what Kathleen and Patrick tell you since they are so sure that they know what they know...lol. Palin likes it that way anyway.

Sorry, I haven't had time to read through all the comments. But, did you notice Levi 'look' over towards where Tank was probably standing when he was asked about Toads temper? He does this when he needs a que on whether to say more or not.

I think there is more to the anger story, perhaps what Toad has done towards Levi.

Silencing Sherry....why would the McCain campaign need to scrub computer and then take over and keep all press away?

If there was nothing more to know than Levi slept with the abstinent Bristol, which we knew early on, what were they protecting?

Was it just that NO vetting had been done so the McCain campaign swooped in "just in case?" But why the Johnsons? Levi is the only connection there, right? Teh boyfriend's family needs managing? Why? The McCain peopel have to know something.

So...if this coverup has not been to protect Palin (as Bluetx suggests), who would be bigger? Chuck Heath comes to mind. That would be hard to process. Someone outside Alaska? Someone in Texas? My imagination is impaired. Maybe the butler did it. (Certainly not Rex.)

Only problem is you deleted your blog, deleted posts on PD, so the story is hard to believe at this point without some better evidence than what we've been given--look at the dates of birth of the two kids.

I don't believe it, at this point--the simplest answer is still the best--but I'd be open to something else with more evidence to show the way.

Also, instead of working against PD did you not maybe give them some evidence to work with--point them in the right direction--I'm not talking about just a cryptic post here or there, but a lead they could *really* follow.

So...I'm going to assume that you're in Texas--so how is it someone in Texas was able to get this info instead of someone who lives up in Alaska?

Levi said he does not want to harm or hurt Sarah Palin. If you believe the SP version you are satisfied and done here.

Palin will do herself in. Not necessarily Levi or related.

The fraud of what looks to be a fake persona by an elected official is what matters. It is more than Sarah Palin.Sarah Palin can be a distraction from the truth. Think of this in terms of the crimes. All good trolls love distractions.

@21:14 re Doris Kearns Goodwin and the CBJ letter. I am the one who is taking on this project of trying to interest her, and I have had the flu the past week, that's why I have not been around much past few days.

I have been able to determine that Ms. Kearns Goodwin is somebody who gets a lot of correspondence, does interviews etc, and has people who forward letters on to her. So I don't believe that I can just dash off an email to her and expect a decent response. For that I am having to compose a good letter that I will mail to her with supporting documents, and try to appeal to her interest in history and in citizens being interested in history.

That means it is taking some time to write a letter that will hopefully induce her to respond personally, and I have not finished it yet. When I have heard back, I will let everyone know.

But in the interest of getting an actual reply and not just a form letter saying something like "Ms. Kearns Goodwin thanks you for your interest in her work but cannot respond to individual inquries", I am going to take the time needed to make my appeal for help so as to have most chance of a reply.

If the reply does end up being a form letter, I will let people know that as well.

I wont out myself so there is no way to prove anything I may say. Take it or leave it, I dont care. I mostly just wanted people to know that Bristol did not give birth to Trig. Now you have heard it also from a source you may respect and believe.PD only twists facts and would never accept anything outside of their own reality, and I had no respect at all for their questionable "investigation". And you see where they ended up, proving nothing and quitting.

I am not jealous of Levi. I pity the man. I pity him because right now he has no real friends, and now he alienated those he could have called family.

The importance of a strong nuclear family should never be underestimated. Where is Levi's father? I don't know. Where is his mother? In jail because of a drug crime. That pretty much tells me a lot right there.

I see a young man without direction, without guidance. He seems to have grown up without a father figure. He would have taught him not to do the dishonorable things he has done.

When all things fade away, when your friends abandon you, your money is spent, your job eliminated, your property confiscated, all you have left is your family. They are your most precious resource, one that cannot be cast aside callously.

This is what I saw that Levi had done, and he will not be the better for it.

Gee, the story, as I see it is this: Levi is more man than many guys we read about every day. Without even a high school degree, he's trying to step up and earn money for his sister and his mother. He has plenty of friends. He just went on a trip with 3 of them.

Get a clue before you write lies. Real men don't make up fiction to "serve a queen."

Sherry Johnston - whose son, Levi fathered a son with Sarah Palin's daughter, Bristol, last month – tells PEOPLE she got hooked on the prescription opiate after a hysterectomy eight years ago, which led to seven additional surgeries.

Hoho, old memories come back! Who remembers PD2? Deleted by PD2/Thomas/BlueTx from one day to another, because suddenly "the gruesome truth" magically arrived?

Originally I didn't want to respond to your comments, as all you did in the past was play silly games when you were PD2 aka "Thomas" ('believe me, I am not BlueTX, no really, can you prove that I am a liar?...oops, dammit, you got me now'). Remember? ;-) All these posts carefully saved as PDF... :-)

So, looking for a new playground?

I doubt very, very much that what you said was "true" back then. Actually, you haven't given any details back then, and you are not giving any details now. Don't try to confuse our readers, because they are much cleverer than that. How is the newspaper business doing, by the way?

So. Let's say what Gryphen & BlueTx say is true, that Bristol is not the mother, or Levi the father, Sarah, & Sherry, are not possible candidates, who would that leave as possible candidates? Oh, and CBJ works with incest victims, which might mean more, now.

Sounds like a big family tree needs to be made on both sides, and as much as possible, a timeline of each family too. Maybe that will narrow it down?

And what about this Trig & Tripp's birth dates? What is so significant about these? We cannot even prove these are their true birth dates. Just 'presentation' dates.

Something's just not adding up here...(I probably didn't make much sense, either in the post above.)

"Now Kathleen asked why I said back on Sept. 2, "Just ask yourself this question, "When would Sarah Palin be most likely to fake a pregnancy and then adopt her daughter's baby? When she was mostly out of the public eye as the Governor of an "off the radar" state like Alaska? Or while standing on a stage in front of millions of possible voters and camera crews?"

This was in response to Levi's statement that Sarah wanted to adopt Tripp. I was not confirming that Trig was Bristol's baby, I was asking why Sarah would want to adopt her daughters' baby right when she was being considered for a VP pick? The talk about Sarah being a possible VP pick had already started before April 2008. If it was going to be a straight up adoption how would you explain taking on an infant while running to be the Vice President of the United States? And if you were planning to fake your own pregnancy would it not have made sense to do so before the national media was watching your every move? This was one of my first attempts to get people to start thinking about the birth dates."

What lies would those be, Mr. Anonymous? That Levi attacked the grandmother of his own son? Even if I detested my in-laws, I would never say anything about them of such a despicable nature in public as he has done. Such matters are not even best kept to yourself or only confided to closely trusted family members.

You lied about his friends, all the people he is financially and emotionally supporting. You are part of a SMEAR LEVI brigade. And he's called Palin a liar. We all KNOW that. You'd have to be an idiot not to see the large catalogue of her lies. Tell us she didn't lie about the Bridge to Nowhere. And she's REALLY serving Alaska now that she quit, isn't she?

Mr, Anonymous, I don't know any of Levi's "friends," but I bet he has a lot of people willing to hang out with him because of his quasi-celebrity status. Those people also have a tendency to turn their backs on you when you are of little use to them anymore.

I should pose the question again, where is his father? He should be his best friend and most trusted confindant, not someone from whom he is enstranged. I know where his mother is, in jail for crinimal behavior. I don't about Mercedes situation, but she can't be that bad off with money she received from that tabloid interview.

Levi had a tremendous opportunity, and he wasted it. I pity him when I wonder where he will be five years from now.

So Gryphen has dropped a hint that Joe McGinnis knows whats up and has stories to tell. Joe McGinnis book is not going to be out until 2011. I guess we'll be waiting a long damn time for the story to pop. Do you know how much damage Palin can do in that long of a time.

Whether it's because $P has been a bumbling fool or a fraud, we know that any story she tells needs to be examined and taken with many grains of salt. In the face of evidence that she's a liar, everyone needs to think critically about any story she puts forward. Only a fool would fail to realize that her book is going to be self-serving.

"Please don't feed the trolls. Do your best to ignore them completely. If a genuine person posts a dissenting view, please reply politely. If the discussion descends into something fruitless and annoying as the recent performance we saw here, treat as trolling and simply ignore.

BLUETX -OK, I will play your cryptic game. What if the "gruesome" story is this:

Bristol's real dad is Keith Johnson, but NOBODY knows this. Until Bristol goes and gets herself knocked up by Levi, her half brother. Sarah is then forced to tell Bristol the truth. They go to NY and abort Bristol's baby. Then when rumors start to surface, they can't possibly admit to an abortion in the family, so they work with CBJ and the church to adopt a downs syndrome baby to cover the (unknown) incest, the teen pregnancy and to boost Sarah's career. They then burn the church office to destroy all records.

The Insider - my opinion only - total waste of time this time. He said he's received death threats from Palin supporters and told Sarah that once she "shuts up" he might consider it. And - and he's back on tomorrow night.

interesting theory...but why would they say Levi was the father of Tripp? And why would they play along at couples? If I found out my boyfriend was my brother I would be icked out and keep away. Surely they would be too traumatized to hold hands etc during a public campaign, and would avoid television interviews where they would have to talk about each other. Unless only Sarah knew about it and that would be super creepy if she still let them see each other and encouraged them to get married anyway. It is interesting though the resemblance between Bristol and Sherry Johnston that many people have noted- coincidence or not?

Here are the current Gryphen eliminationsGryphen said... Willow is not the mother, Mercede is not the mother, and Sherry is definitely not the mother. I chased down all of those leads along time ago. And I have no information that Track is the father either. Not as definitive as the females, but still very unlikely. 3:00 PM Tuesday, 3 November, 2009

I haven't eliminated Bristol.Never much thought it was Willow, Mercede, Sherry.

Thanks Dianne 4 The Insider opinion. I suspect that is pretty much what it will be for awhile. Maybe forever with Levi.

I think Bristol looks more like Todd than Sarah, and Track more like Sarah than Todd. Does anyone think Levi looks like Todd or Sarah? Though many people don't look anything like their relatives, and random people can look alike...

Some time back I asked if anybody knew if Sherry Johnston was born in same town Heath's were residing at the time. I believe she is a few years younger than Sarah, and Sarah was only 2 months old when Heaths up and moved to Alaska.

The reason I ask: Papa Heath still strikes me as creepy and authoritarian, and I have also wondered why they suddenly moved so far away. He not only taught, but coached. Would have been around teen girls, could have been an attractive jock type to local women years ago.

It had occurred to me that Papa Heath could be Sherry's father. I believe it was Gryphen mentioned a relationship between the two families being key, and I thought about that. I wondered about it when the Bristol/Sherry resemblance was first noted. This would make Sarah and Sherry half sisters. I can imagine Sarah hating Sherry for that, should she discover it. I am guessing that this relationship, were it true, would be generally secret.

If anyone does know about where Sherry grew up and her age, that would be interesting to know.

And anyone who thinks this kind of speculation is not credible, I have found out recently that the background of two different family members, one on each side of the family, was not as advertised. There was no incest involved, but there was one "secret" pregnancy, as well as one child whose real father was not the husband. One of these secrets was kept for 60 years, while the other was suspected by a few for years, but only confirmed recently, after about 60 years.

Genetic studies have shown that approximately 20 to 25% of children turn out not to be the child of the woman's husband or committed boyfriend of the time.

I've heard that a prominent attorney knows Sarah Palin was not pregnant with Trig.Dr. C Baldwin-Johnston and Representative Carl Gatto are two more professionals that know more.

There would be others. The Joe McGinnis book is coming out in 2011. Does Gryphen mean to wait until that time?

@01:13That is a good one. As for BlueTx: Incest comes to mind. The kind that goes on for generations. A religious leader, Chuck Heath, her brother, Todd. They could have raped a friend of Track, Bristol, Willow or Piper. The possibilities are endless.

If the church is involved they would help with the problems. There might be common sexual practices like with the FLDS or Catholic Church.

It may be the baby father is more significant than the mother in understanding SP motive. If her pastor, father, brother, husband or son knocked up an underaged girl she would have reason to cover for them. That can be the situation whether Bristol or someone else is the birth mother. Whatever it is I remember that Johnny Chandler felt pity for Bristol. It may have been for more than the obvious that she is lonely taking care of babies while her friends still party on.

Levi and his mother's drug bust does lead into McCain. Two more kids were convinced to inform on Sherry Johnston. The law was clued in about the kids mail order drug pick up. How did that happen? The informers were likely someone the Johnston's trusted. Possibly Bristol knew them. Everyone in the Mat-Su would know who they are if it is like most small towns. The informant kids are a key part of the McCain/Palin shenanigans. They may have been friends of Palins/Johnstons and they may have felt pity for Bristol.

Seeing as Bristol looks like Sherry, and more like Todd than Sarah, I think the family link is between Todd and Sherry. Unless there is some bizarre way Sherry could be Bristol's mother. I don't see how the families would have let Bristol and Levi be together though, unless Sherry is not Levi's mother. Or could the whole Bristol-Levi relationship be fake? Wow this is getting complicated. Could there have been some kind of baby swap back in the 90's? Seems too far-fetched. I will stick to the link being between Todd and Sherry. And maybe a fake relationship between Bristol and Levi to cover up the real link between the families.

Everyone here needs to take a break and watch the movie---Rumor has it...with Jennifer Aniston, Kevin Costner and Shirley MaClaine. No babys, but a great comedy about who in the family is sleeping with who, from granmother to grandaughter. I think the one person with the answers is Sadi, she was friends with Bristol and teenage girls talk between themselves. Maybe she's hiding out writing that blockbuster book. I don't think Levi is in a position to blow this wide open, being (MAYBE) the father of 1 or 2 of the babys involved. I'm beginning to think everyone in Wasilla needs a DNA!!

I thought you all would find this interesting. I posted my comment from 1:13 above on IM and it did NOT PASS MODERATION. (It was posted as anonymous because I forgot to click my Google ID). Gryphen did not publish it. (But published dozens of other comments in this same time frame, so it isn't just delayed). Am I on to something?! The comment was this:

("BLUETX -OK, I will play your cryptic game. What if the "gruesome" story is this:

Bristol's real dad is Keith Johnston, but NOBODY knows this. Until Bristol goes and gets herself knocked up by Levi, her half brother. Sarah is then forced to tell Bristol the truth. They go to NY and abort Bristol's baby. Then when rumors start to surface, they can't possibly admit to an abortion in the family, so they work with CBJ and the church to adopt a downs syndrome baby to cover the (unknown) incest, the teen pregnancy and to boost Sarah's career. They then burn the church office to destroy all records.

How's that?")

This would also explain why the Johnstons got divorced (once the truth came out) and why the Palin marriage fell apart. It also explains why Levi is so protective of Bristol.

I also don't think it means Bristol and Levi would necessarily break up immediately. If they were in love, they may decide to stay together anyway. GROSS, I know. But weirder things have happened. Then when Tripp was conceived, everyone freaked out and they finally broke up.

The Johnstons know nothing. Levi has suspicions but does not know anything for a fact except for the fact that Bristol is not Trigs mother. He visited Bristol while she was in "hiding". Sherry and Mercede are not involved in any way. They have no idea what has gone on in the Palin family aside from what they have read on these blogs. Palin knows that Levi does not know the truth behind Trigs parentage. You can count all the people who know the truth on one hand and still not use all your fingers. That is why the real truth will never come out. Bits and pieces of who its not may come out, but the full truth is deeply hidden in the minds of a few people. These people know they can keep this lie going forever because there is no one but themselves that can uncover it. Therefore the comfort of spewing lies is so easy for Palin.

So I guess you are one of the fingers in one hand who knows? If what you are suggesting is true, how do you know others who know won't come forward. And incidentally, who are you beholden to? Why wouldn't you put a stop to this hoax for the good of this country?

BT -It doesn't matter if Levi knows who Trig's birth mother is. It matters that he knows that Sarah Palin is NOT. He was around at the time. I'm SURE Bristol confided in him. They were intimate. She told him things.

Bristol DID appear pregnant in photos at at TRL Live in late 2007. If she had an abortion, he knows that.

If he really was at the hospital when Sarah "had" Trig on 4/18/08 -- he knows that she wasn't in a hospital bed, in a gown, looking like she had just pushed out a baby.

Say what you will, but Levi does definitely KNOW things that could bring down Sarah.

He knows things yes but he does not know for sure, nor does he have proof that Palin did not birth Trig. Dont be so sure that Bristol knows either. Remember she was sent away during that time. It was not for no reason

ArmchairJane, I think the speculations could be credible. I've known of some highly unusual things that go on in families and communities. Secret things. There are famous people who grew up thinking mother was sister and all that. Wasn't Ted Bundy from one of those troubled families, real nice on the surface.

Who ever these people think they are protecting, it is the children they are destroying by perpetuating the coverups. That includes the lawyer, Rep Gatto and anyone who knows part of the situation and keeps quiet.

I did see some generational info on Sherry Johnston, forgot her maiden name. Nothing stood out at the time, but it was the kind of thing someone could have put in Walt Disney was a relative. There were not many links to newspaper items. It was older and I don't think manipulated for campaign. Could have been scrubbed at some point?I thought it was odd there was nothing on Keith Johnston's family. I'm not even sure where the Mexican heritage comes from. Levi has possibly mentioned it?

I also think Palin could be motivated to do the fake pregnancy if a male she needed to protect knocked up an underaged girl. She may have picked Levi as a father for a Bristol baby, or she didn't know that if he lived at the house sex was a possible activity. He may believe he is T1 T2 father?

With or without Bristol as T1 bio mom I'm thinking incest is involved. Some people are very confident the story will not come out.

A gruesome situation would be they killed the birth mother to be certain no one would ever tell.

I agree that there could be something involving incest, or something involving a powerful man (elder in church or otherwise important in Palin's circle) who would be in trouble if there were not a cover-up, or some other male in the family that Palin wanted to protect.

The timing of Keith Johnston leaving the family, as I understand it, makes sense in one of those scenarios. I have also thought it possible that one factor here is some combination of half-siblings having sex, not knowing they are related, because one of the two was the result of a fling. In that case parents might try to intervene in the relationship without admitting the true cause of why they did not approve the relationship.

The scenario you (Leadfoot) laid out is just one of those possible combinations.

I would expect that a church community that feels it is uniquely chosen to survive during the end times, to offer sanctuary to others from the "lower 48" and elsewhere, and who think they have at least one specially annointed person in the group, are going to feel their law ("God's law") is above the secular legal system.

As a matter of fact, such a group might blame sexual crimes by high ranking members as signs that they were particularly targeted by "the enemy". They might consider the offender as much a "victim" as the actual real victim of the rape or incest. Some notes of the pastor on counseling or other intervention sessions could also have been part of what was burnt in the fire.

Anon 03:53, I do wonder if the reason some are so confident the real story won't come out is because of incest. But keeping it hidden does the victims no favor over time. And the cycle needs to be stopped, and without exposure it will tend to continue.

Willow was at a highly intuited age. Willow would have been more up on what was going on with older siblings and the house hold. Didn't she have something to do with a pregnancy test? And she diagnosed Trig!

I haven't commented in weeks. There didn't seem much point. But tonight-- wow. I believe BlueTx knows something. I remember her from PD-- and how at the time I thought her phrasing, sentences and attitude all sounded like a young person bursting with info who had to brag and tell. BlueTx, I believe you. And then all the other Anons who write cryptic things that sound right on. Sherry as Sarah's half sister due to Chuck's hankypanky. I like it.

Not to mention the reference to ol' Fly on the Wall! That little devil sure turned out to be right. When he/she first commented on PD that a connection between the Johnstons and Palins was the key, Levi was just a soundbite on the GOP stage.

As much as I admired Audrey, I did not like the uber-tight control on comments. The only way to get the truth is in a freeforall. This is clearly unsavory business thanks to Palin, and too careful moderation may kill the very ideas that will bring the truth. Just my opinion.

sandra, I've had the same questions. I'm not even sure there was an elder Johnston boy now. I would think an obituary would exist. It is Wasilla and if someone lost their temper and someone ended up dead, may be they would skip the obit.If he did exist someone in town would know.

Seriously, on Sadie's MySpace page there is something about a Matt. Could that be a brother? I noticed on the MySpace I read several of the kids talk in family terms about friends. My sis could mean friends close as a sister and so on. Matt or someone could be close like a brother but not related. However, word gets around like a brother died. It's hard to say.

Also if incest is as big as in Dillingham people could be related and not know or tell.

Leadfoot, I got up early to write this because I had a very similar scheme rattling around in my head, except with Levi being Todd's son. What did I see but your post with more or less my same brainstorm!

- Gryphen had posted a TV clip picture of Levi and it looks v. much like Todd's HS pic, much more so than now as an adult. I posted a link to that on a comment thread at IM.

- I think that LEVI could be in the dark about this, though, and maybe even Sarah was (before her daughter got pg). That would explain Sarah's being fine with Levi up until a certain point, while Todd has always had antipathy for Levi, esp. re. Bristol. (Who described the gun threat that then got brushed aside?)

-When Bristol announced being pg, of course all hell broke loose. SP may have been clued in by Todd, which could have led to a NY abortion. Whether the pregnancy with "T-Zero" (the original Tripp) was terminated or not, Bristol was probably forced to give him up by Sarah (hence the "my choice" remarks about T2), and Bristol may have been led to think it was due to SP's career that this was a "necessary" move. Bristol may or may not have known the real reason at the time.

-Sarah got Trig from somewhere, and I wonder if he may not be Sherry's baby.. again with Todd! Maybe the hysterectomy story is a planted lie. Maybe she and Todd have always been on-and-off in the background. Maybe Sarah DID both 'run to the rescue' AND try to boost her own image with the Holy Roller hard-right crowd, by 'borrowing' or adopting Trig.

-It's possible that Bristol and Levi had eloped and WERE married, and that in the meantime perhaps it's been Bristol to have found out the real truth, which would make it easier for her to have (eventually) made the breakup with Levi seem like a 'regular' breakup, just something that 'wasn't meant to be'. [Not that such a situation would be 'easy' for anyone!]

Then the story continues along Leadfoot's lines, with the church involvement and so forth. T2 may not be Levi's.. I'm undecided about that, but it could very well be as Leadfoot implies, and that Bristol was happy to "finally" have Tripp, her baby with her husband/lover Levi. That could also explain Sarah's weirdness re. T2 at the Greta interview. That doesn't explain Levi's seemingly-less involvement with Tripp (not using his name, not having a photo)... But maybe Levi IS clued in to the whole deal by now, and just has periods of "writing off" his son and Bristol. You can imagine that news of this nature would do a job on anyone.

-SP's getting clued in either on Levi or T1 or both .. would also have led a more definitive break in her relationship w/Todd.-------------------part 1 of 2-leila

--------------Part 2 of 2It is a very sad story if it is anything along these lines, and it *would* make one feel somewhat sorry for SP on the private score at least.

I think Levi may still have the goods on many of SP's illegal shenanigans, and so his revelations may follow a separate and parallel track. He would certainly be in a position to know about Trig's origins, but likely won't reveal them, to protect his own mom (although Mercede's "brother" photos do speak for themselves, if we only knew for sure what they were saying..).

Trig being Sherry's would also explain the long arm of the law picking through all the drug traffickers up there and coming up with her to process all of a sudden. Threats to lock her away and throw away the key would keep her quiet. It would also explain her concern about being able to see the (unspecified) baby and complaints about being kept away (however, she did not seem to insist too aggressively).

If the MSM got wind of anything resembling this.. while it dismays me not to know the truth.. I can finally see why they would not want to "go there". What a disaster all around, and who would want to be the first to open the floodgates?

Anyway, I am sure there are holes in this theory, as I have not gone back over the years of comments on all the sites (great job you guys!) to find contradictions in it.. just one of those late-night daydreams.

-leila (sorry I comment as anon. but the name/url does not work for me)

Leadfoot@5:49 and before - all very interesting-- but that leads me to a question. If either one of those liasons were real, how do we explain the "assumption" that Bristol and Levi were an item (on and off again) for a while. In other words, don't you think that this(B&L) would have been discouraged somehow earlier on ? I've always wondered what the truth of B&L's relationship was. I had the sense that Levi was "chosen" by the Palin gang to "be the dad" i.e. to play a role for the camera.

Leadfoot, keep your eye on this. Are you sure IM has approved comments of others before and after yours? (It's possible Gryphen is busy). Argh! I'll be traveling this next whole month and won't be able to keep up my Palin obsession. I will have to make do with the odd "fix" here and there.

Many have been curious as to why Levi would be so caring towards Trig.. Not so surprising if Trig were his son, OR his brother. Bristol's naturalness (in my theory) is probably to do with maternal feelings from her own pregnancies, the one past and the one to come, whether she knows about Trig's origins or not (she must know he's not Sarah's). Still not inconsistent with exasperation at having to be the "mother duck" because SP is going to offload that on her.

Levi may have been "at the hospital" in the circumstance of a birth AND/OR a handover to give moral support to Sherry.

The incest theory would make complete sense of what Patrick questions here:>>Wait a minute! Tripp was born on December 27, 2008, wasn't he? Levi Johnston explains in Vanity Fair that he proposed to Bristol in July 2008. Surely things were already stable at that time, right? In Vanity Fair he also reveals that he broke up with Bristol in February 2009. So, without putting too much emphasis on one small part of the conversation, I would like to point out that this whole description of events basically doesn't make much sense, because a few weeks after Tripp was born, Levi and Bristol broke up. Like so much else in this whole Sarah-Bristol-Levi saga it barely fits together.<<

BT, Mercede and Bristol have mutual friends. Mercede knows more than Bristol should suspect. Except Mercede gets her phones tapped and all kinds of things long after the election was lost. Who does that? Why do they keep at it after the campaign and after Bristol/Levi break up? Sarah is the one with "friends." They most likely know everything there is to know about Mercede if they are reading her text messages and all. Including that Mercede does know more than you'd think.

So who is the go between for the Palins and Johnstons?

I don't think Levi knows all. I think he was set up because of his trust and he's easy to manipulate. Mercede did try to warn him. He is slow to catch on. Levi knows things that can lead to other things or people. His perspective of living with the Palins and the things he observed are interesting to put the scenes together. He doesn't need to prove anything about Palin biology.

You don't have to know all the details to know that you saw Palin when she was pretending to be pregnant and she was not.It is not only a fake pregnancy people want resolved.

It is all the crimes. The church is a central part. Levi doesn't have to know it all, maybe he had observations around the time Todd and Bristol went to the church after the fire. He may have over heard the reasons the church members believe the fire was intentional attempted murder like some reported. He may have heard stories like that.

@Conscious,who seems to be keeping an eye on ANY of these kids?? Todd off fishing or "on the slope" or training all the time. Sarah doing whatever Sarah did (she must have been busy even if only creating mischief).

Someone go back and find those gun threat comments... I think that could be Todd's attempt to ward off Levi... I need to pack! ;-)

-leila

p.s. anon @6:18.. I think where we have been all getting derailed is thinking that there is ONE baby mystery that connects all the players. I think there are two parallel mysteries that are linked, but neither one involves everyone. We've all been looking at it, too, as a disaster of SP's making, originating with her.

An anonymous @04:43http://theimmoralminority.blogspot.com/2009/11/insider-panel-grills-levi-on-trig.html?showComment=1257306216805#c9139019230459259982

..brings up the MIL caption I had forgotten about:>>1.Mercedes says Sarah Palin is her Mother Inlaw2."Triggybear" is her new baby brother3.Mercedes and Bristol jointly pictured are "family love"4. Sarah Palin was not pregnant on APRIL 18th <<

Bristol&Levi married would make SP a kind of MIL, no? or is that too much of a stretch? Does the caption say precisely Mercede's MIL?

Funny how when those photos showed up, everyone acted as though Mercede must have been fooling or writing craziness!

I see some others writing on that IM thread about Levi had made some of my points earlier.. I think this is going to crack pretty soon (but then I thought that a year ago when I was reading Audrey's blog!).-leila

The church fire is one thing that is being investigated. So they tell us. It is both a local and federal investigation.

I don't know what the investigation has determined so far. For some reason the church members aren't acting like others we've seen in similar situations. They are not publically vocal and asking for answers.

The blogs I've read that bring it up are far away from Wasilla. Some have been openly accusatory and convinced it is attempted murder. All that, no matter how crazy it sounds should be noted by investigators. As I would think they note statements by the church leaders and people like Sarah Palin.

Levi Johnston was living at the Palin house and he could have heard conversations or been told things. He is now saying he does know huge things that could take Sarah Palin down. He doesn't say what. It doesn't look like it is much on baby gate.

He could have heard something, that doesn't mean much to him, about the fire. When there is a real investigation various information can be worth pursuing because it may fit together with something else. Even the small talk about who did it can matter when put together with other info.

I find it suspect if he is not questioned by authorities about anything he may have seen or heard about the suspects or things related to the fire. He may know why Sarah felt she needed to sort of apologize. A good investigator will look at the people who are in the victim role. It happens all the time when children go missing. Is the family involved?

Once again I am going to move myself far outside my comfort zone and reveal something to the readers here at palingates.

BlueTx is known to us. I do know his identity and he knows that I do.

BlueTx himself had a disturbing childhood - that is why I believe he wants us to trust that the story behind the truth of Trig's parentage is "gruesome". He is projecting his own difficulties by taunting and hopefully humiliating all of us.

About Bristol. Whether she gave birth to Trig or not I still believe that Bristol Palin was pregnant in 2007. At this moment I am not sure how that pregnancy ended and I do feel that I am back to the beginning of this whole damm thing but not that I am banging my head against a brick wall. We are in contact with too many good people in Alaska now for me to feel completely discouraged. Those same people, you know who you are :-), put themselves out on a limb when they contacted us. They even undertook the massive task of taking the photographs of Sarah Palin's new construction programme for us. And they are still quietly chipping away in the background.

Who has the best sources? What does it matter? This is not a competition between the bloggers. This is about the truth. We know who Gryphen's sources are. And that still does not change a thing for us nor for the work that our sources undertake.

Regarding Sarah Palin. The good news that Hoffman was defeated is tempered by the knowledge that the battle is far from over. I'm disheartened that there are people in America who know the "HUGE" truth about her and that it appears that the truth of it will never be revealed. This is not a criticism of the individuals concerned but it is a shout out for the greater good. And I apologise in advance to those who are offended by my honesty here but I am going on the record to say that I trust that someone in the know will eventually tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I just hope that they do so before Sarah Palin destroys anything or anyone else in her quest for the "upside of the crazy" as Gryphen so eloquently suggested in his post earlier today at The Immoral Majority.

Gryphen also recently mentioned Joe McGinnis, the author, in respect of the many people that Joe has been in contact with and interviewed in Alaska recently. Patrick and I knew about those interviews as they were taking place. What Gryphen likely does not know is that we were instrumental in putting Joe in touch with one of Joe's biggest contacts there. I think that Gryphen should know that. That he would want to know more.

This comment is my own little update. I trust that it gives a little insight as to my current thoughts and hopes in the search for the truth about Sarah Palin's supposed pregnancy. Patrick will, no doubt, offer his own update in due course.

thank you, Kathleen for going beyond your comfort zone to share that last comment. No matter how unstable BlueTx may be, there is a ring of truth to his comments. This is, for me, the power of a blog as opposed to newspaper journalism. One never knows when, where, or how the truth may come. It is truly a public process. One man's rant may provoke another's confession. The theories I've read on this thread seem pretty darn plausible, given the nature of Alaskans and the histories of the two families involved. Thank you for letting the forum live!

I always believed that a simple Bristol pregnancy was not enough to shove Palin into the pregnancy fraud-- especially in a world where teen pregnancies are God's gift. There has to be more.

Kathleen -Amen! Thank you so much for that update. I now feel a little bit more sane. Yesterday had my head spinning. I'm glad to see a nice, rational response. Thank you for all you do. I have faith that the truth will come out!

Anon 6:36I have always wondered why Palin Deceptions was shut down. I don't know if it was voluntarily, out of fear of some type of retribution or outing of the blog owner, or if there was a real legal issue there. I remember that Gryphen at IM had been legally threatened--what happened that he feels free to continue? IM, Palingates, and Bree Palin are still up and running and the interest in babygate is at a fevered pitch right now. Why did PD go away?

After reading a transcript of Levi's appearance, it's clear that what he may have on $P is abuse of power. He didn't want to go to the convention. If she used her authority as governor in any way to get him back against his will, she violated his civil rights. That's a federal case and has the potential for imprisonment, not just a fine. I think it's section 242 of title 18, USC.

Chiming in late here. The birth certificates issued to stillbirths or miscarriages made me go hmmmm. What if Sarah was indeed pregnant, but lost the baby early in the pregnancy because it wasn't viable (Downs syndrome and medical problems?). Maybe the woman flipped out and pretended to be preggers. She could have had a birth certificate issued for the deceased fetus, then adopted a Downs Syndrome baby through the church. If the Governor was acting a lil' crazy, I can see family and good friends covering for her. She ends up with a baby and the baby ends up with a home. This would also explain the CBJ letter. Could also explain why her medical records released right before the election were sparse, and in away truthful. Bristol could have been sent away to her Aunts home because she did not want to go through the ruse.

I'm sorry but I do not think Gryphen is blocking comments. I tried 2 times to post something and it did not appear but it posted the 3rd time. The same thing has happened to me on palingates.

I don't think some posters are being fair to Gryphen. He is doing, in my opinion, the best he can with this story, as far as I can see. I know some people are impatient but if you don't live in Alaska and cannot do some ground work to help with this hoax then you shouldn't complain if he doesn't give you the information that you are looking for.

It has just been discovered on Inside Edition that the show "Cheaters" is a hoax. This show has been on the air since 2000and after 9 years someone decided to investigate. There were 3 people who stated that they were paid to participate in this hoax.

Maybe someone can get this fake pregnancy story to Inside Edition. Give them every little detail and hopefully they can help.

Kathleen, I appreciate your candor. What a couple of days in this soap opera.

Hey, BlueTX, it seems to me at least that you are sincere, if combative.

Okay, then. So, if I understand, you're saying here and at IM that the truth about Palin's faked pregnancy is gruesome and sad, and if it comes out, it won't be the Palins (I'm assuming you mean the whole family) who are hurt. Someone else will be hurt. You're saying that Sarah Palin desires the world to think Bristol is the mother of Trig. You're grateful to Gryphen for ruling out Bristol, Willow, Sherry and Mercede.

You swear you won't out yourself, and yet you seem bursting at the seams for the truth as you see it to come out. So what's stopping you?

I have to add my voice to the others who ask what exactly you are waiting for. I believe you're conflicted (hence the snark and sarcasm), but I do believe you.

I feel better after reading Kathleen's comment. Thank you. My head is still in a spin cycle but settling. With so many different views it is overwhelming at times. I was content with thinking it was logical that Sarah covered for Bristol in a rather normal situation, except for the part she was a Governor. I didn't like the thought of incest and it is easy to leave that out. Now I am not so sure that should be overlooked.

Sarah Palin was not pregnant in March and April of 2008. She was posing as something she was not. It appears she was more sinister than helping a love one or being an altruistic adoptive parent.

Bristol continues to be part of baby gate. Questions of whether Bristol is the biological mother of T1 makes me more curious to her roles. Her pregnancy history would explain things.

I knew a young girl that had all kinds of issues about babies starting about the age of 13. She was intelligent and did well in school. It was her emotions that were a mess. I don't know how many times she was pregnant before she turned 18, but it was constant that she either thought she was or she was stressing over abortions, keeping a baby or adoption. She did have a few live births and at least one adoption. What I am trying to say is some young women are tangled in their emotions and baby making attention. It is out of control and crazy making. I feel sorry for a parent of a child like that. The girl I knew of did effect her mother's career, she had a nervous breakdown. The father did keep his job.

How could Sarah Palin run a state with a teen half as out of control as what I saw?

I don't know BlueTx. I think they are the only one that is adamant that the true story is "gruesome." Do sources tell a less "gruesome" story? Is BlueTx flaming us by making it seem worse then it is? What do other sources say about "gruesome"?

The post about the compound was outstanding. There are very reliable detail oriented people working on these issues with Palingates. I don't fault Gryphen for another perspective, I'm just confused.

Bristol, the doctor who works with abuse and adoption and the Wasilla Bible Church are all things I want to see explored and explained.

Nobody likes this particular theory, but I'd say it ranks up there with the ickiest:

Track and Bristol.

Perhaps somehow they are not even bio-siblings--even if not it would still be incest. But that would sure be a really really good reason for Sarah to cover it up--and explain why Track was sent away somewhere where he might even be killed. It sure seemed like he was punished big time for something.

If Sherry's hysterectomy story is a lie, and she really is Trig's mother, and Todd is the father, that really would explain Mercede's comments on those photos. Sarah is the mommy-in-law because she adopted the baby, Trig is Mercede's baby brother because he is her baby brother, and the pic of Mercede, Bristol, Sarah and Trig is "Family Love" because now they are all related.

Sigh.

In any event, the story of the pregnancy and birth of Trig Paxson Van Palin is a lie. We just do not know exactly HOW it is a lie, but however he came to be, Sarah says they were "chosen" by God to be his parents, and perhaps that is the closest to the truth she has come with the story.

You know, there are a whole lotta psycho people out there. I remember a story in the news about a couple who wanted another child, and couldn't, so, they colluded to baster their teen daughter against her will with the husband's sperm in order for them to have another baby. And you do read about cases where a woman has faked a pregnancy, and when she is about to be found out, since the delivery date is coming, she murders a real pregnant woman for the baby. So, yeah, there is a lot of "gruesome" stuff out there. I'm really hoping "BlueTx"'s definition of "gruesome" doesn't involve anything that horrible.

Hey, just thought of this: IF Bristol is not Trig's mother, how about if that weird church involved in adoptions tried to talk some girl out of keeping her baby, and when she wouldn't give it up, she was told the baby was stillborn, and the Palin's ended up with the baby? There have been adoption rings who do stoop that low.

I would just love it if it turns out Sarah had her tubes tied or better yet, had a hysterectomy after the birth of Piper.

Yes, emrysa, you're probably right. But maybe she felt she had to cover something up, but it's something (like covering for her husband's affair) that would generate sympathy toward her.

The problem with a Todd affair theory (or Track, for that matter), is why would the mother, whoever she is, feel compelled to give up the kid?

If the details are gruesome and sad, then I'm beginning to think Trig came from a very unfortunate soul unconnected to the Palins - a teenager who was violently raped or something like that - and the adoption arranged through CBJ and the church. In that case, it would truly hurt the mother to have the truth come out. But the question remains: why could Sarah Palin possibly want to have a baby in Spring 2008? What could possibly be in it for her?

Or...is there anyone with enough power over Sarah to compel her to fake a pregnancy and adopt a special needs baby?

Sorry, folks, I know I'm posting a lot today, but please bear with me because I feel like I'm onto something. Gryphen said:

"I was not confirming that Trig was Bristol's baby, I was asking why Sarah would want to adopt her daughter's baby right when she was being considered for a VP pick? The talk about Sarah being a possible VP pick had already started before April 2008. If it was going to be a straight up adoption how would you explain taking on an infant while running to be the Vice President of the United States? And if you were planning to fake your own pregnancy would it not have made sense to do so before the national media was watching your every move? This was one of my first attempts to get people to start thinking about the birth dates."

What about this: Bristol is pregnant is Trigg #1 and sent to Anchorage. Sarah, knowing she's being considered for the VP nomination and worried about her image, pesters Bristol and Levi to adopt the baby. They either agree or they don't, but she announces her pregnancy in March 2008. Bristol then miscarries (partying? car crash?) AFTER Sarah has announced she's 7 months pregnant. Now Sarah's screwed and has to come up with a baby or fake a miscarriage herself.

An adoptable baby (possibly from some very sad circumstances) is found by CBJ, named Trig, and presented to the world on April 18th, but he turns out to have Down Syndrome. Then Bristol and Levi get pregnant with Tripp 2. Now Sarah's stuck with the "retarded" baby, and Bristol and Levi have the beautiful healthy Tripp.

Rationalist -I like your theories. But the one question that lingers for me is this: If Bristol is not Trig's birth mother, why is she his primary care giver? Levi said "she is more of a mother to him than Sarah is." Why would she feel compelled to take care of a baby that isn't hers? Even before Tripp was born, it was Bristol who cared for Trig. She was a teenager -- she should be out seeing movies with friends and hanging at the mall. Not caring for a downs syndrome baby that isn't hers. This is what leads me to believe, more than anything else, that he IS hers.

I'll give you a clue Bluetx. I used the name Gordon over there on PD2. Remember Gordon BlueTx? That is the name of the person over there who outed you. I am the person who put two and two together regarding your duplicity.

You are not to be trusted BlueTx. I proved that at PD2 - I have nothing else to prove.

BlueTx has an agenda and that is to discredit Patrick and I and to confuse you. He's here to muddy the waters and it is not the first time he has done so. But you will soon know more - I promise you that.

Thank you for reminding us of that fact. Down Syndrome babies are, of course, just as lovable and wanted as non suffering children are.

We all undergo the same emotions, whether we are Down Syndrome sufferers or not.

I personally think that Trig is a a very sweet looking child and thought that he looked well cared for and loved in the photos that we saw of him with Todd at Fairbanks. He also seemed advanced for his age, especially for a Down Syndrome baby but I am no expert and do not claim that my observation is anything other than my own opinion

Once again, thanks for your opinion, it is valued as are all the thoughtful contributions made here by the majority of our readers.

Adoption rings do stoop low, it should be called human slavery or trafficing in some cases. Fundamentalist adoptions can be among the worst because the front looks so well meaning.

What you brought up is what has been troubling me since learning how close Rep Gatto has been to Sarah. He had to see her in Juneau and Wasilla during Dec 2007 to April 2008. Has he spoken up in her defense because he would know if she was Trig's biological. If she wanted to shield Bristol and family from rumors he would step up with his proof. He would open himself up to questioning until this was resolved.

Before Levi mentioned Sarah wanted to adopt, I was wondering about the still born birth certificate bill. Gatto was also part of the Wasilla Bible Church. I don't know his exact connection to Baldwin-Johnson. They live in the same area and have the same religious associations. After reading a few articles from the perspective of females that lost babies by way of persuasive fundamentalists, I was struck by the horrors girls experience.

It would be an easy way to manipulate a girl if she was told she had a "still born." A girl mother would be looking for proof. Not just to wake up from a difficult birth and told the baby was dead and an excuse as to why they could not see the body. The "still born" certificate is a gift for creepy adoption rackets. These babies live and get new certificates. The birth mother is signed off with a still born birth certificate. Everything looks like it is in order and all is well.

Abortions leave psychological scars but adoptions are happy for everybody.

I don't know that Palin used the "still born" certificate but it is something her church could use. Do you think any of the writers that went to Wasilla are investigating adoptions in the area?

I noticed from the MySpace of Wasilla teens there are plenty of pregnant youth. I was shocked with how at ages like 15 it can be welcomed and not a problem to have a baby. I was more shocked at how many infants die. The parents recover fast and return to the drinking party scene right away. Drugs help them get over their grief.

Adoptions would be hard to come by in a place where unwed teens are the norm and won't consider giving up a baby. Fundamentalists have adoption orders to fill and need to be creative about obtaining newborns.

Well, let's see...first of all, let me address Anon at 22:32. You are absolutely right that some people would be perfectly willing and/or enthusiastic about adopting a baby with Down Syndrome. And I certainly don't mean to imply that people with Down Syndrome are unworthy. I just find it hard to believe that Sarah Palin is one of those people, especially if Levi is telling the truth about her referring to Trig as "retarded." On the other hand, I wouldn't put it past her adopting a baby with Down Syndrome because it would be good for her politically.

BlueTX: I'm happy to give the benefit of the doubt, but I don't really see what you're contributing, so I'm losing interest.

Frank LI NY: Hmm. That's a good point. Well, Levi and Mercede both talked about 12/27 birthdate as if it was real, and they talked on Tyra about seeing Tripp during the beginning of the year. Maybe they really were being private.

Leadfoot: If you listen to Palin's "Wild Ride" interview, she comes right out and says that she plans to depend on "the older kids" to help out with the new baby. Since Track is away in the military, that kind of leaves Bristol. The Palins are a truly dysfunctional family, and in families like that the kids live out all kinds of unhealthy obligations to their parents (keeping secrets for an alcoholic, helping out with the little siblings if you're mom's a raging narcissist...).

emrysa - it does seem possible it would be a Palin, but who are the viable candidates? And all the pregnant Wasilla teens...seems like there would be a baby to be had there somewhere...

What if Todd is the father of Trig and Sarah is not the mother? What if the bio mother is Levi's younger sister? Sarah adopting the baby to prevent a scandal! Bristol moved to sisters home so that she is not aware of Sadie's condition.

People adopt special needs children for a variety of reasons. Maybe "God" told Sarah to adopt Trigg, as part of his plan for opening doors for her. She may not feel motherly toward Trigg, but had to do what God commanded. Crazy idea for some of us to grasp, but I know people who think like this.

Watch Sarah's body language around Trig. She really doesn't want that baby despite all her "God's little gift" comments. Sarah does not have very many motherly instincts except when the cameras are rolling. I imagine the children are raising themselves.

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