Russky:That fine but it still doesn't erase the fact that apple does that part of hardware better. It's amazing to me how so many people can't just say 'yup' and move on. they come up with all kinds of reasons to dismiss it because well i don't know, I guess they can't comprehend that a person might buy an apple product for an actual technical reason. I suppose it doesn't fit in with their generalizations of someone that buys an apple product..

First of all, I was an iPhone user from 2009-2013, so I'm one of those people who buys Apple products.

Second of all - it's a feature that nobody cares about. My current phone, the Nexus 4 has NFC. The iPhone 5 doesn't. Big whoop, who gives a crap? Sure, you can say that one device does one part of the hardware better than the other, but most people don't care about that hardware at all.

Frankly, you're the one harping on about the feature. Seriously, does anyone in this thread beside you care about how well a phone can be used for recording studio sessions besides you?

Russky:Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

Yeah, because all the Pros think of whipping out their phone when recording professionally. Who even needs studios anymore when you can record your next hit single inside the dumpster behind Burger King?

RexTalionis:Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

RexTalionis:Russky: That fine but it still doesn't erase the fact that apple does that part of hardware better. It's amazing to me how so many people can't just say 'yup' and move on. they come up with all kinds of reasons to dismiss it because well i don't know, I guess they can't comprehend that a person might buy an apple product for an actual technical reason. I suppose it doesn't fit in with their generalizations of someone that buys an apple product..

First of all, I was an iPhone user from 2009-2013, so I'm one of those people who buys Apple products.

Second of all - it's a feature that nobody cares about. My current phone, the Nexus 4 has NFC. The iPhone 5 doesn't. Big whoop, who gives a crap? Sure, you can say that one device does one part of the hardware better than the other, but most people don't care about that hardware at all.

Frankly, you're the one harping on about the feature. Seriously, does anyone in this thread beside you care about how well a phone can be used for recording studio sessions besides you?

Well i made one simple comments and you replied and other replied so i continued the conversation. I think that's how forums work. If no one replied then i wouldn't have said anything else. '

Is their a failure in my logic here or a reason you are getting so bent out of shape about conversing on a forum?

Russky:RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

Of course, then you have to take your hands off of the guitar to switch between effects pedals, unless you're saying just for in the studio, which means that you'd pay MORE, because you'd still need the pedals for performing, and have to buy a tablet on top of it. There's a reason that they made them FOOT pedals.

dickfreckle:Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

No, it makes you more interested in people seeing that you are on a Mac.

Mikey1969:Russky: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

Of course, then you have to take your hands off of the guitar to switch between effects pedals, unless you're saying just for in the studio, which means that you'd pay MORE, because you'd still need the pedals for performing, and have to buy a tablet on top of it. There's a reason that they made them FOOT pedals.

dickfreckle:Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

I'm guessing these people largely fall into the Whippersnapper demographic.

dickfreckle:Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

1) The people who can afford to pay $4-5 for a coffee can afford to pay $1200 - $3000 for a laptop2) The people who hang out in coffee shops use Macs.

/Had a Mac. It was okay, except that it needed $4000 in repairs (all covered by Applecare) during the 3 years I had it.

Surool:RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

You would be surprised. The last Sonic Talk (the podcast of the Sonic State people, I'm sure you'll of heard of them moving in professional music circles) spent a fair amount of time discussing iPad based software synth's. They comment very favourably on both the quality of these soft-synth's and have said repeatedly that the iPad could have a use in pro music; albeit for a younger crowd than the hosts.

That's just synth's. I've seen an iPad being used for lyrics by a pub band and a lot of guitar players seem to like them for... well whatever guitarists get up to.

You would be surprised. The last Sonic Talk (the podcast of the Sonic State people, I'm sure you'll of heard of them moving in professional music circles) spent a fair amount of time discussing iPad based software synth's. They comment very favourably on both the quality of these soft-synth's and have said repeatedly that the iPad could have a use in pro music; albeit for a younger crowd than the hosts.

That's just synth's. I've seen an iPad being used for lyrics by a pub band and a lot of guitar players seem to like them for... well whatever guitarists get up to.

So... your counter argument is?

Not a big for of theirs but the guy from Dream Theater does some amazing stuff using the iPad that he said he wasn't able to do on a regular synth. He uses it live and in studio.

Doublespeak:Surool: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

DJs are using things like tablets a lot more.

Traktor and Virtual DJ are two industry-standard software options for DJs. At the most recent IDMAs, Traktor Kontrol S4 won Best Hardware Mixer but Virtual DJ Pro won Best DJ Software ahead of Traktor Pro 2. Mixxx is a fine open-source alternative for anyone starting out. And they're getting a lot of use now on tablets as well as laptops.

If they're good enough for Liam Howlett of The Prodigy, or Carl Cox, they'll do for me!

Doublespeak:Surool: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

...or you can take it that I've been working at pro audio companies since college. You've seen my ads placed in your favorite magazines since 1991. Most pros go with more than 2 channels, but there's nothing wrong with the amateur market. It's much easier than dealing with the pro gear if you don't need it.

My initial comment was made in response to a comment about recording. I'm so happy people find so many non recording uses for iPads. I don't have a counterargument about stuff I wasn't talking about, so I guess you are correct there.

dickfreckle:Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

Why is it that everyone at my country club seems to drive a German luxury car?

Surool:Doublespeak: Surool: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

...or you can take it that I've been working at pro audio companies since college. You've seen my ads placed in your favorite magazines since 1991. Most pros go with more than 2 channels, but there's nothing wrong with the amateur market. It's much easier than dealing with the pro gear if you don't need it.

Gorillaz may not be huge but their last album was written and recorded on the iPad. That being said they've sold millions of albums so they aren't amateur either.

Doublespeak:Surool: Doublespeak: Surool: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

...or you can take it that I've been working at pro audio companies since college. You've seen my ads placed in your favorite magazines since 1991. Most pros go with more than 2 channels, but there's nothing wrong with the amateur market. It's much easier than dealing with the pro gear if you don't need it.

Gorillaz may not be huge but their last album was written and recorded on the iPad. That being said they've sold millions of albums so they aren't amateur either.

I looked at the list of apps involved, and almost all of the audio was generated/sequenced inside the iPad, which has nothing to do with the input delay that I was commenting about. Sounds like all they had to do was get a couple vocal tracks in there to add to the music tracks produced on the iPad. Again, it's neato that an iPad can be used to synthesize instruments, but that is a long way from recording a band.

Surool:Doublespeak: Surool: Doublespeak: Surool: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

...or you can take it that I've been working at pro audio companies since college. You've seen my ads placed in your favorite magazines since 1991. Most pros go with more than 2 channels, but there's nothing wrong with the amateur market. It's much easier than dealing with the pro gear if you don't need it.

Gorillaz may not be huge but their last album was written and recorded on the iPad. That being said they've sold millions of albums so they aren't amateur either.

I looked at the list of apps involved, and almost all of the audio was generated/sequenced inside the iPad, which has nothing to do with the input delay that I was commenting about. Sounds like all they had to do was get a couple vocal tracks in there to add to the music tracks produced on the iPad. Again, it's neato that an iPad can be used to synthesize instruments, but that is a long way from recording a band.

You can watch Jordan Rudess (sp?) from Dream Theater using an iPad live to see why input lag would be a concern for a professional musician. We are crossing between recording and live but it is the same input lag issue and that is in fact a concern.

Doublespeak:Surool: Doublespeak: Surool: Doublespeak: Surool: RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

...or professional musicians.

It's starting to see a lot of use in professional studios and live as well. I take it you aren't a musician or haven't read a guitar mag in the last 5 years?

...or you can take it that I've been working at pro audio companies since college. You've seen my ads placed in your favorite magazines since 1991. Most pros go with more than 2 channels, but there's nothing wrong with the amateur market. It's much easier than dealing with the pro gear if you don't need it.

Gorillaz may not be huge but their last album was written and recorded on the iPad. That being said they've sold millions of albums so they aren't amateur either.

I looked at the list of apps involved, and almost all of the audio was generated/sequenced inside the iPad, which has nothing to do with the input delay that I was commenting about. Sounds like all they had to do was get a couple vocal tracks in there to add to the music tracks produced on the iPad. Again, it's neato that an iPad can be used to synthesize instruments, but that is a long way from recording a band.

You can watch Jordan Rudess (sp?) from Dream Theater using an iPad live to see why input lag would be a concern for a professional musician. We are crossing between recording and live but it is the same input lag issue and that is in fact a concern.

I read that again and i think we are actually talking about two different things. The input lag i was referring to was specifically to using the touchscreen which then activates your drum sound within the device or keyboard, etc. Android has a very high input lag compared to ios.

Doublespeak:You can watch Jordan Rudess (sp?) from Dream Theater using an iPad live to see why input lag would be a concern for a professional musician. We are crossing between recording and live but it is the same input lag issue and that is in fact a concern.

I looked up 3 articles that talk about him using an iPad as an instrument. In fact, Jordan has released an iPad app to do exactly that... so it looks like he plays the iPad, and it is recorded by something else.

AGAIN. I was only talking about using an iPad as a RECORDER (especially since it only can have 2 inputs: a left and a right mono, or a single stereo channel. I have also seen a few companies create docking stations (or hook up wirelessly) to use an iPad as a kick ass control surface, but it just isn't a recorder of multiple, non-internal audio signals.

FFS, I'm not saying iPads are bad, faulty or worthless. They are not designed to be multi-track audio recorders. Can we agree to that and let it go?

Doublespeak:I read that again and i think we are actually talking about two different things. The input lag i was referring to was specifically to using the touchscreen which then activates your drum sound within the device or keyboard, etc. Android has a very high input lag compared to ios.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Curn_fdMOBA

While there is a later video by the same uploader claiming to show the same amount of latency in Jelly Bean I don't think it is a very fair comparison when you are using two totally different apps, which can have a massive effect on input latency of any sort. Not to mention not showing what other apps may be running on the android device. If you leave many things open and start chewing in to memory from multitasking you'll hit latency issues as well.

I can see how it impacts people who want to use iOS versus Android for playing live music from a drum app or similar as they are showing in the video though.

Russky:RexTalionis: Russky: Or if you want to actually use it for recording music, Android's hardware has been an abject failure for musicians up until the recent nexus which only has twice the input delay of ios devices.

I can't imagine that being that big of an issue for most phone users.

Well tablet more so. Fender for example has put out a fantastic app that you can pretty much use to replace all of your guitar pedals at a much cheaper price. But you won't be doing that on android and you certainly wouldn't want to carry a desktop around to 'jamming' sessions.

You won't be doing it on your iPad, either. Software based effect modeling has been around forever, and it pretty much all sucks. No guitar player, anywhere, will be replacing their stomp boxes with a farking iPad because their stomp boxes sound better, and they can, well, stomp on 'em.

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer:THe real reason you people dislike Apple is that you;re poor, and envious of people who can afford things that are obviously so superior as to be well worth 5x as much as any other option.

RexTalionis:I was a long-time iPhone user (having recently switched to an Android device).

The only clear advantage the iPhone and other iOS devices have over their Android (and Windows-based) counterparts is that iDevices have phenomenal battery life and power efficiency.

Aside from the battery concern, though, iPhones and iOS devices are roughly at parity with Android and Windows devices in terms of hardware.

The thing that pushed me over from iPhone to Android was the fact that Android allows me to choose which apps are the default apps for certain things.

In iOS, the default browser is always Safari and if you click on a link in an email or an app, it will launch in Safari. Third party browsers are kind of out of luck in this regard. Android allows me to choose my browser defaults as well as the photo viewer defaults, PDF viewer defaults, etc.

Two more significant advantages to iOS are better auto-correct and the built-in "undo" function, which is sorely lacking in Android. I have a iPod Touch and and Android tablet - and actually prefer iOS for the smaller device. But I use the tablet more when I'm home, and the horrible autocorrect drives me batty, making wrong assumptions all the damn time, and it's just compounded by the fact that if I'm backspacing to fix Android's error and I hold the backspace down too long, I'll loose whole strings of words, and THERE'S NO WAY TO GET THEM BACK without typing them all over again. I've never any of these problems (bad autocorrect, over-agressive backspace, or inability to undo) on my iPod Touch.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled slap-fight instituted by people who care, for some reason, what OS other people use and how much they spend on electronics.

thornhill:dickfreckle: Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

Why is it that everyone at my country club seems to drive a German luxury car?

Low income people aren't regularly buying $5 coffees.

You do realize that you sound like a jerk, yes? The implication: only poor people use PC? And we can't spend 5$ for whatever the coffee drink is named?

100 Watt Walrus:RexTalionis: I was a long-time iPhone user (having recently switched to an Android device).

The only clear advantage the iPhone and other iOS devices have over their Android (and Windows-based) counterparts is that iDevices have phenomenal battery life and power efficiency.

Aside from the battery concern, though, iPhones and iOS devices are roughly at parity with Android and Windows devices in terms of hardware.

The thing that pushed me over from iPhone to Android was the fact that Android allows me to choose which apps are the default apps for certain things.

In iOS, the default browser is always Safari and if you click on a link in an email or an app, it will launch in Safari. Third party browsers are kind of out of luck in this regard. Android allows me to choose my browser defaults as well as the photo viewer defaults, PDF viewer defaults, etc.

Two more significant advantages to iOS are better auto-correct and the built-in "undo" function, which is sorely lacking in Android. I have a iPod Touch and and Android tablet - and actually prefer iOS for the smaller device. But I use the tablet more when I'm home, and the horrible autocorrect drives me batty, making wrong assumptions all the damn time, and it's just compounded by the fact that if I'm backspacing to fix Android's error and I hold the backspace down too long, I'll loose whole strings of words, and THERE'S NO WAY TO GET THEM BACK without typing them all over again. I've never any of these problems (bad autocorrect, over-agressive backspace, or inability to undo) on my iPod Touch.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled slap-fight instituted by people who care, for some reason, what OS other people use and how much they spend on electronics.

You're aware of swift key, Swype, Google keyboard(check the market, I'm not talking about what comes standard), thumb keyboard, go keyboard, 8pen, KALQ, Slide IT? HTC, Samsung, and stock android at least as far as what comes on it. There are literally dozens of options for keyboards on Android. You can Swype, you can split the keyboard for tablets, customize latency, keypress feedback, you name it, you can make it exactly how you want it. Nearly all of them have great auto correct with customizable and learning options. Last I used an iPhone... you got what it came with.

I will admit, the software buttons, specifically back, is often incredibly wrong about what I want because they tried to make it multi use. I would prefer back and undo and previous app as three buttons. Luckily some of that is configurable, and I have pie.

Dubya's_Coke_Dealer:THe real reason you people dislike Apple is that you;re poor, and envious of people who can afford things that are obviously so superior as to be well worth 5x as much as any other option.

Rich people are known for being profligate with their funds. That's why every company run by wealthy people pays so much. It's those companies run by poor people that pay minimum wage, right?

/most apple users I've known were broke college students and hipsters sharing a 2bed1ba with 5 other people//most wealthy people I know use PCs and have Androids or dumbphones

RexTalionis:The only clear advantage the iPhone and other iOS devices have over their Android (and Windows-based) counterparts is that iDevices have phenomenal battery life and power efficiency.

The vast majority of that, though, is the fact that push updates go through a central relaying station before getting to your phone, and they all come through as one package at predetermined intervals. That's something like 75% of the battery life advantage, and unfortunately is really only possible in a closed eco-system where Apple gets to enforce these kinds of standards. Google could do the same thing and instantly increase the battery life of all Android devices, but it would then lose the distributed nature of Android apps. It's mostly a software advantage. Meanwhile with most Android devices, I can simply pay $20 for a spare battery (making the total cost STILL cheaper than an iPhone) and have a longer total talk time on one charge. It's also a major pain in the ass to replace busted iPhone batteries (though some incredibly talented people I know can do a 5 in just a hair under 10 minutes), and will set you back $40-100.

100 Watt Walrus:Two more significant advantages to iOS are better auto-correct and the built-in "undo" function

Which auto-correct? The "naked" Android keyboard, or one of the ones that has been screwed with to hell and back by one of the manufacturers in their custom UI? The naked one is not bad, but some of the custom ones are garbage. The great thing is you can get a new keyboard from one of a number of providers for dirt cheap. I will agree with you on the "undo" functionality, though.

dickfreckle:Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

Because the people who buy macs want other people to see that they are buying macs, even if they are just using them to read FARK. The ones who buy PCs don't give a sh*t, they just want to get their work done.

One other thing... so many people in this thread b*tch and moan about breaking their PC laptops... the very first laptop I bought was a mid-priced Toshiba, and it lasted for almost ten years with one broken (actually worn out) part - I had to replace the "Enter" key at year 8. The only reason I finally chucked it was because it was too old to run the 64 bit version of windows 7. Gave it to a charity, where seniors are using it with windows XP to learn how to use computers.My question is this... what the fark are you people doing to your machines? Tossing them down the stairs every morning?

Vaneshi:No where near as fast as you think it is. Also you can do that right...... now.

Including the case? Good luck with that.And it's a damn sight faster than any mac I could buy at the same price point ($1500 plus $410 for professional grade dual 21 inch monitors). When Cupertino can beat that deal, I'll buy it. Till then I'll pick the case I want (Rosewill Thor V2), the processor I want (AMD FX-8350 4.0 GHz/4.2GHz), the memory I want (32 gb), the HD space I want (4 TB of WD drives (green/blue) with 3 TB of external WD drives), the optical drives I want (1 dvd burner, 1 blu-ray burner), and so on, running win 7 64 bit. I use it to render my 3d animations in autodesk 3d studio MAX, that's how I know how fast it is.

Apple does not give me those choices, and if they did, I would have to sell a kidney to purchase them.

Yes a small child thinks his little poot poot is impressive. Didums thinks anything with an AMD is teh awezomes or some shizzle I frankly am not down with nor do I want to be. Because you live in a fantasy world full of unicorns and ponies, I know this because you profess to be teh uber l33t 3D artist yet brought... not a SMP'd Xeon system, not even a single proc Xeon. No. You brought AMD. Think about it. Those two do not gel. They are mutually exclusive statements: 3D high end professional workstation & AMD processor. Also you intimate it's a self build.

Now we know you're a moron. The real pro's buy a workstation from Dell, Apple, HP... they don't DIY.

I have a DELL at work. When someone else is footing the bill, they buy what they like. When I'm paying for it, I buy what I like. I like AMD, and I like building it myself.

Also, if you'll read what I wrote (a task for you with your limited synaptic response, I know) I didn't say anything about a "Hackintosh", but a machine built with parts blessed by Apple. You need to work on that.

rewind2846:dickfreckle: Oh, and one more thing - why is that whenever I go to a coffee shop, 65% of the people are using Macs? This is wildly disproportionate to the Mac's overall market share. Seriously, would anyone float a hypothesis to help explain this? I don't get how having an Apple product suddenly makes you more mobile and interested in coffee.

Because the people who buy macs want other people to see that they are buying macs, even if they are just using them to read FARK. The ones who buy PCs don't give a sh*t, they just want to get their work done.

One other thing... so many people in this thread b*tch and moan about breaking their PC laptops... the very first laptop I bought was a mid-priced Toshiba, and it lasted for almost ten years with one broken (actually worn out) part - I had to replace the "Enter" key at year 8. The only reason I finally chucked it was because it was too old to run the 64 bit version of windows 7. Gave it to a charity, where seniors are using it with windows XP to learn how to use computers.My question is this... what the fark are you people doing to your machines? Tossing them down the stairs every morning?

The only hardware problem I've had with a PC laptop is with the one I'm using right now. The fan is acting up. It works, but does it loudly. Clicking sound, likely off-axis. And the charger died, sending me to the Radio Shack around the corner to buy an overpriced universal charger because, hell, who among us will live without our computer for the 3 or 4 days Amazon or Newegg will take? I have a netbook with a dead drive lying around here somewhere, booting Ubuntu from a thumb drive, but there was no way I was putting up with that sh*t just to save a few bucks.

That aside, all 5,983 PC laptops I've owned performed exactly as their stats would provide, and held up physically as well as any other eventually disposable device. I do have a spec-monster desktop but it is in storage in another time zone (long story).

Quantumbunny:You're aware of swift key, Swype, Google keyboard(check the market, I'm not talking about what comes standard), thumb keyboard, go keyboard, 8pen, KALQ, Slide IT? HTC, Samsung, and stock android at least as far as what comes on it. There are litera ...

Lusiphur:Which auto-correct? The "naked" Android keyboard, or one of the ones that has been screwed with to hell and back by one of the manufacturers in their custom UI? The naked one is not bad, but some of the custom ones are garbage. The great thing is you can get a new keyboard from one of a number of providers for dirt cheap. I will agree with you on the "undo" functionality, though.

I've tried a few. Right now I'm using TouchPal, which has even WORSE autocorrect (it literally has a guess for EVERYTHING you type, even if it's a single letter. You can't type "C.S. Lewis" without it trying to change "C." into a word it thinks you want), but it's fantastic for typing (swipe up for caps, down for various punctuation marks). I've tried Swype, and a few others, and found none I like, and figured TouchPal was at least better than the native, which has just gawdawful proximity typing - getting letters wrong all the time, and giving me multiples of the same letter if I don't hit the "key" juuuust right (Android 4.0.3). But I guess I'll keep looking.