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I just don't get why people bring up griefing and whine when they do it themselves lol. Same crap my comp clan on Lir used to do. It's like someone who doesn't flush complaining about someone else not flushing too. Lead by example or just hush. Btw I don't grief and I'm not even eg on Sulis yet....I just hang around in the chats and focus on trying to get stuff xfered there atm

If straightforward answers are what you expect, asking which clan is "top" on the public sub forum to a highly competitive server is probably the stupidest thing you can ask.

Traditionally when looking at servers that have some competitive aspect, you may notice there is a clan that is obviously more dominant than the other secondary clan(s). This is not the case here. If numbers were all that mattered, Toxic would have been obliterated a long time ago. Don't be naive and don't let the rankings be your gauge on clan strength. Retribution is the second strongest clan in the game according to the highly misleading leaderboard ranking system, and yet they still consistently lose bosses against clan Toxic.

Both clans have killed and are capable of consistently killing every boss up to BT. That should speak for itself in terms of our level of competitiveness.

Ret uses a type of DKP system which has no decay and no bidding. Effectively giving older, more established members an almost indefinite advantage until a new raid boss comes out and a new tally is formed. Because this type of system requires a lot of extra work outside the game, and not many people in ret help maintain requests/fulfillments, it is common for some requests to take weeks before being fulfilled. It is also common with these type of systems for hundreds of lower tier/less desirable loot to rot in the clan bank for years due to most members hoarding points for better loot.

Toxic has steered away from DKP mostly due to the amount of extra work it requires to maintain. We instead use a roll system for most loot. Everyone who attended the raid gets to roll for items they can equip on toons that they own. Nobody can win more than 50% of the loot from any single raid. This way, we don't have a bank full of items that won't ever see the light of day. High tier loot is collected and requests are fulfilled by polling. Every active member in the clan gets to vote between everyone who requested the item. All gear is handed out within 24 hours in nearly every case.

To the peanut gallery -

Stop spreading your political propaganda on the forums. Some of you aren't even active on this server anymore. The fact you come on here and speak so highly of Ret when you aren't even playing with them just makes you look like a fan boy. You left the server for a reason, and nobody else followed you.

Everyone who's relevant from other top servers already know that Ret publicly talks down on Toxic to try and gain new recruits from the forums. And it doesn't work. It's just cringe.

Also, the Jah merge was a result of desperation due to Jah losing too many key players after THEY ended our alliance. The goal is to enjoy playing the game. Think about it. Would you enjoy playing a game where you always lose? Probably not. And this has been ongoing throughout the years. So we can't really blame Jah for wanting to throw in the towel. They're just trying to progress and that couldn't be done without merging. This is simply another prime example of why numbers doesn't equal results. Even when Jah was about to merge they had more than twice as many toons as Toxic. Unfortunately for them, they felt Ret was their only option.

Unpopular to belief (influenced mostly by a select few) Toxic never had a vendetta against Jah. During the alliance we provided the lock power and game knowledge, they provided the meat shield and support. Loot was divided equally between both clans. We had no intention to stop, but they decided to end it. Everyone knows the loot split was justified because after they ended the alliance, they could no longer win any bosses against Ret.

Another thing to keep in mind is that locking a boss does not necessarily mean that clan is better. Like Hero said, Ret and Tox can both kill endgame bosses (excluding dino of course). Even before the merge, Jah could kill endgame bosses as well. At the majority of lock fights (not all) there are enough players on either side to be able to kill the boss.

It all comes down to the lock group - who logs, when they log, which boss spawned, etc. You can't really judge a clan's strength by the power of their lock group, especially if that lock group is usually the same characters.

SirJackIII wrote:and combat the griefing your clan was doing at the time

Like killing the off tanked root while a small clan is trying to kill BT? Or setting rules for the lockfight specifically saying: "Neither clan can go until N root is down and BT is reset" then immediately breaking your own rule?

Or maybe you're talking about griefing yourselves on your Dhio attempt with 40+ in the area, then claiming WE teleported you out the zone. Idk why I expect anything less from a Bears fan smh.

mmmm yes we love making level 1 toons to mess up our own raid... your Bills won't even win 6 games next year bud... also nice job making an account just to post on this lol must have taken you a while.

Dino's area raid limit is 27 toons. having 40 there will invoke teleportation anyways. but you blamed that level 1 toon for the teleportation and griefed us on BT after losing lock, And on that attempt you were not able to even reach 90 percent dino health but blamed us for unsuccessful attempt. i am not originally from sulis so i dont know about past here, i personally dont support griefing in any case. i like many people from Ret but after getting griefed 2 times on Bt and one being such a stupid reason that level 1 toon griefed on 40 people dino raid, i started feeling annoyed by your clan too. sorry but for me those two griefing incidents were totally unjustified. everyone is entitled to their our thoughts and this is mine on whole scenario, yours may be different and i totally respect that. good luck and have fun.

Ret uses a type of DKP system which has no decay and no bidding. Effectively giving older, more established members an almost indefinite advantage until a new raid boss comes out and a new tally is formed. Because this type of system requires a lot of extra work outside the game, and not many people in ret help maintain requests/fulfillments, it is common for some requests to take weeks before being fulfilled. It is also common with these type of systems for hundreds of lower tier/less desirable loot to rot in the clan bank for years due to most members hoarding points for better loot.

Toxic has steered away from DKP mostly due to the amount of extra work it requires to maintain. We instead use a roll system for most loot. Everyone who attended the raid gets to roll for items they can equip on toons that they own. Nobody can win more than 50% of the loot from any single raid. This way, we don't have a bank full of items that won't ever see the light of day. High tier loot is collected and requests are fulfilled by polling. Every active member in the clan gets to vote between everyone who requested the item. All gear is handed out within 24 hours in nearly every case.

Since the objective here appears to try and claim superiority in the gear system. I will add to it by informing the players that the poll system you mention among your clan is very corrupted. As the voting will go towards players with popularity and have multiple accounts within the group to vote with. Aside from rolls being pure luck based and guarantees no reward among participating players.

Ret uses a type of DKP system which has no decay and no bidding. Effectively giving older, more established members an almost indefinite advantage until a new raid boss comes out and a new tally is formed. Because this type of system requires a lot of extra work outside the game, and not many people in ret help maintain requests/fulfillments, it is common for some requests to take weeks before being fulfilled. It is also common with these type of systems for hundreds of lower tier/less desirable loot to rot in the clan bank for years due to most members hoarding points for better loot.

Toxic has steered away from DKP mostly due to the amount of extra work it requires to maintain. We instead use a roll system for most loot. Everyone who attended the raid gets to roll for items they can equip on toons that they own. Nobody can win more than 50% of the loot from any single raid. This way, we don't have a bank full of items that won't ever see the light of day. High tier loot is collected and requests are fulfilled by polling. Every active member in the clan gets to vote between everyone who requested the item. All gear is handed out within 24 hours in nearly every case.

Since the objective here appears to try and claim superiority in the gear system. I will add to it by informing the players that the poll system you mention among your clan is very corrupted. As the voting will go towards players with popularity and have multiple accounts within the group to vote with. Aside from rolls being pure luck based and guarantees no reward among participating players.

In regards to systems a no-decay DKP is absolutely terrible. Voting is pretty much just as bad though.

Rolling is honestly better and fairer than both those systems (and rolling sucks).

SirJackIII wrote:and combat the griefing your clan was doing at the time

Like killing the off tanked root while a small clan is trying to kill BT? Or setting rules for the lockfight specifically saying: "Neither clan can go until N root is down and BT is reset" then immediately breaking your own rule?

Or maybe you're talking about griefing yourselves on your Dhio attempt with 40+ in the area, then claiming WE teleported you out the zone. Idk why I expect anything less from a Bears fan smh.

mmmm yes we love making level 1 toons to mess up our own raid... your Bills won't even win 6 games next year bud... also nice job making an account just to post on this lol must have taken you a while.

It did, still not quite sure how to forum things. But ya, the level 1 in the zone put your clan of 40+ over the teleport threshold that's it! You can tell Ret got a bit worried when they weren't the only clan able to slay BT. That's the real reason for the griefing. Imagine, you're already losing about 70/30 Geles to a clan with less than 10 BT kills total when you've killed BT without opposition for a year. Can't have little brother getting close in the arms race WHILE "yep, we can't beat them" is going on. You'd really take hard L's if we had even 15% of the BT gear Ret has.

Far as the two systems go, the polling system is far from corrupt as others within the clan can vouch. It also promotes helping your teammates by passing the replaced items on to someone else in need. For example, when I won the BT helm I passed my Imp firestorm helm on to another mage. IMHO its better to help your neighbor without expecting something in return, i.e reloading one's own DKP in a system without a decay of points and getting a refund on items returned to the bank.

Eventually when the Jah mercenaries catch on to never being able to outbid Kumell or the other one circle folks on anything worth a damn your clan will go stagnant as it has before. Lastly, we can make a small wager on the Bills +6.5 wins this season if you're that confident. Let's say 1m Gold? Ball is in your court Jacky boi.