Martin Brest certainly embodies a peculiar career. In the '80s, he directed "Beverly Hills Cop" and "Midnight Run", two of the biggest action comedies of the era. In 1992, he scored a Best Director nomination and directed Al Pacino to an Oscar win in "Scent of a Woman". "Meet Joe Black" went notoriously over budget, but still made a profit.

Then, in 2003, he made the infamous flop "Gigli", and he hasn't been heard from since. What do you think happened? Did he decide he was done with the Hollywood system, or have studios decided not to let him get work (I think it's more the former than the latter, but I want to see what you think).

From what I heard the studio execs did a ton of meddling with Gigli, it was originally supposed to be a dark comedy and it got turned considerably more lighthearted, and there was also meddling during the editing stages, and Brest was so soured by the experience that we left Hollywood for good.

Similar thing happened wih Donald Cammel on his film "Wild Side", only he was so distraught by the executive meddling that he actually killed himself over it, no joke.

Sun Jun 29, 2014 9:36 pm

ilovemovies

Producer

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Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

I tried to look around for where he's been since Gigli and the most I could find was this:

What happened is that he simply wasn't a good director, so when he had a flop, that was it. Beverly Hills Cop is pretty good, but I never understood why Scent of a Woman got major nominations, and Meet Joe Black is mediocre.

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Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:20 am

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3654Location: Zion, IL

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Syd Henderson wrote:

What happened is that he simply wasn't a good director, so when he had a flop, that was it. Beverly Hills Cop is pretty good, but I never understood why Scent of a Woman got major nominations, and Meet Joe Black is mediocre.

Agreed, Meet Joe Black is one of the most criminally boring movies you will ever see, like JB said in his review, it's artificially lengthed due to everyone speaking REALLY slowly for no apparent reason, the fact that Brest managed to spend 90 million on a movie that had no special effects gave studio execs good reason to worry(Something similar happened with Warren Beatty, he caused Town And Country to cost 80 million despite having no special effects, the budget increase was primarily due to his insistance on numerous retakes).

Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:08 am

MunichMan

Assistant Second Unit Director

Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:34 amPosts: 166

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

I hated Scent of a Woman. That Pacino received an Oscar for THAT performance, given his other work, is a shame. I mean, it even had a slow clap. Give me a break.

Tue Jul 01, 2014 4:00 am

H.I. McDonough

Director

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:09 pmPosts: 1314

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

MunichMan wrote:

I hated Scent of a Woman. That Pacino received an Oscar for THAT performance, given his other work, is a shame. I mean, it even had a slow clap. Give me a break.

As with Paul Newman's win for "The Color of Money," Pacino's win for this was more of an apologetic gesture for not giving it to him for one of his previous, genuine acting triumphs.

I'd say Brest's first film, 1979's "Going in Style," is still my favorite of his. Like Herbert Ross and Arthur Hiller, he was a more-than-capable maker of fairly lightweight films... but there's no way "Gigli" should've made him a pariah.

I was doing weekly film criticism when Gigli came out, so perhaps I can provide some perspective.

At the time, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez were a couple, and for months on end all we heard in the movie world was this ridiculous, excessive oversaturation of "news" about Ben and Jen, or "Bennifer" (a ridiculous nickname if I've ever heard one). It made doing the movie beat pretty miserable, because we wanted to emphasize different things, but the mainstream celebrity-obsessed press just wouldn't let Ben and Jen go.

So they make a movie, Gigli. Truth is, it's not a good movie but it's not as bad as the reviewers made it out to be. I think it was a case of us in the film world, who wanted to do serious work, being fed up with all the Bennifer bullshit. So we dumped on the film, ruthlessly tore it to shreds. And that did help put and end to the Ben and Jen saga. Poor Martin Brest unfortunately got caught in the middle here.

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Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:39 am

Jeff Wilder

Director

Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 5:07 pmPosts: 1460

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Sexual Chocolate wrote:

I was doing weekly film criticism when Gigli came out, so perhaps I can provide some perspective.

At the time, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez were a couple, and for months on end all we heard in the movie world was this ridiculous, excessive oversaturation of "news" about Ben and Jen, or "Bennifer" (a ridiculous nickname if I've ever heard one). It made doing the movie beat pretty miserable, because we wanted to emphasize different things, but the mainstream celebrity-obsessed press just wouldn't let Ben and Jen go.

So they make a movie, Gigli. Truth is, it's not a good movie but it's not as bad as the reviewers made it out to be. I think it was a case of us in the film world, who wanted to do serious work, being fed up with all the Bennifer bullshit. So we dumped on the film, ruthlessly tore it to shreds. And that did help put and end to the Ben and Jen saga. Poor Martin Brest unfortunately got caught in the middle here.

Another movie that fell victim to that was Kevin Smith's "Jersey Girl".

As far as Brest goes, he was, like John Badham and more recently F Gary Gray, one of the better journeyman directors out there. Going In Style and Beverly Hills Cop proved that. However, he hadn't built up enough of a body of work so that when Gigli came out, it hurt him considerably. Gigli was far from good. But it wasn't Battlefield Earth/Judge Dredd/Pluto Nash bad. But like Sexual Chocolate noted above, the timing had a lot to do with it.

Looking at the directors of the other bombs mentioned above, Brest was the only one who suffered a career ender. Ron Underwood who helmed Pluto Nash more or less retreated to TV afterwards while Roger Christian who directed Battlefield Earth has directed a bunch of more or less direct-to-video movies. Same with Judge Dredd director Danny Canon aside from I Still Know What You Did Last Summer.

And Gigli was better than the bloated borefest that was Meet Joe Black. Scent Of A Woman is okay. But that Oscar was definitely to make up for Pacino not receiving one for a better performance.

_________________This ain't a city council meeting you know-Joe Cabot

Cinema is a matter of what's in the frame and what's out-Martin Scorsese.

I hated Scent of a Woman. That Pacino received an Oscar for THAT performance, given his other work, is a shame. I mean, it even had a slow clap. Give me a break.

As with Paul Newman's win for "The Color of Money," Pacino's win for this was more of an apologetic gesture for not giving it to him for one of his previous, genuine acting triumphs.

I'd say Brest's first film, 1979's "Going in Style," is still my favorite of his. Like Herbert Ross and Arthur Hiller, he was a more-than-capable maker of fairly lightweight films... but there's no way "Gigli" should've made him a pariah.

Few people in their right mind would rate Scent of a Woman as Pacino's best performance, but I think he's still excellent in it. Maybe because I recently re-watched it and still like it a lot (although the scene where he drives the Ferrari and the conversation he has with the cop afterwards are beyond hopeless) or, was still mesmerized at how good Pacino is in this. He owns the film (which is still a nice watch) and even though it has a Hollywood ending tacked on, I'd think he was every bit as good as Clint Eastwood (The Unforgiven), Denzel Washington (Malcolm X), or Robert Downey, Jr (Chaplin) were and just as deserving. Stephen Rea would be my choice for his performance in The Crying Game, but I think it doesn't give Pacino the kudos he deserves, to say this was a lifetime award Oscar or something like that.

Lifetime award Oscar’s are a special category reserved for performances like Meryl Streep in The Iron Lady, or Alan Arkin in Little Miss Sunshine.

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Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:31 am

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3654Location: Zion, IL

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Sexual Chocolate wrote:

I was doing weekly film criticism when Gigli came out, so perhaps I can provide some perspective.

At the time, Ben Affleck and Jennifer Lopez were a couple, and for months on end all we heard in the movie world was this ridiculous, excessive oversaturation of "news" about Ben and Jen, or "Bennifer" (a ridiculous nickname if I've ever heard one). It made doing the movie beat pretty miserable, because we wanted to emphasize different things, but the mainstream celebrity-obsessed press just wouldn't let Ben and Jen go.

So they make a movie, Gigli. Truth is, it's not a good movie but it's not as bad as the reviewers made it out to be. I think it was a case of us in the film world, who wanted to do serious work, being fed up with all the Bennifer bullshit. So we dumped on the film, ruthlessly tore it to shreds. And that did help put and end to the Ben and Jen saga. Poor Martin Brest unfortunately got caught in the middle here.

it wasn't the public that doomed the couple, it was flawed from the very start and it ended when Ben was caught red-handed gawking at dancers at a strip club the night before the wedding.

I don't think people hated the film just cause they hated the whole "Bennifer" thing either, people mainly seemed to complain about the dialogue and the unfortunate implications of having Lopez's character- a lesbian, getting turned "straight" by Affleck's character(which was not in the original script)

Brest probably could've found work elsewhere in say directing episodes of TV shows, which is something a lot of lesser-known directors often end up doing, I would say Brest's exile is self-imposed.

Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:07 pm

ilovemovies

Producer

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:04 amPosts: 2205

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

I loved Meet Joe Black. It's 3 hours that flew by. Anthony Hopkins is amazing in that movie. I thought he gave an incredibly moving performance in the movie. Movie also contains one of my all time favorite scores. It's beautiful.

I wouldn't mind seeing the guy make a comeback. He's a solid filmmaker. I haven't seen Scent of a Woman, but I loved Beverly Hills Cop, Midnight Run and thought Gigli was OKAY. Not great but by no means all that bad. Certainly not one of the worst movies of all time

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:11 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3654Location: Zion, IL

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

ilovemovies wrote:

I loved Meet Joe Black. It's 3 hours that flew by. Anthony Hopkins is amazing in that movie. I thought he gave an incredibly moving performance in the movie. Movie also contains one of my all time favorite scores. It's beautiful.

I wouldn't mind seeing the guy make a comeback. He's a solid filmmaker. I haven't seen Scent of a Woman, but I loved Beverly Hills Cop, Midnight Run and thought Gigli was OKAY. Not great but by no means all that bad. Certainly not one of the worst movies of all time

To me Hopkins looked extremely bored and uninterested in the material and he didn't seem to have very positive things to say about Brest as a director, he disliked doing numerous re-takes which he felt were completely unnecessary.

I found the score to be pedestrian at best, i've heard better music scores in video games.

Tue Jul 01, 2014 5:32 pm

Sexual Chocolate

Director

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pmPosts: 1748Location: New Hampshire

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Vexer wrote:

I don't think people hated the film just cause they hated the whole "Bennifer" thing either

I can't speak for the general public, but I can say without any doubt that those of us who covered the movie beat were sick and tired of Ben and Jen. I really do think that the animosity movie writers were feeling at the time had at least something to do with how critically reviled the film was. As I said, it's not a terrible film. I've seen far worse. But it's not a good film either; it's very mediocre, making it the right kind of movie for critics to unleash their wrath upon.

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Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:36 pm

Vexer

Auteur

Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 12:02 pmPosts: 3654Location: Zion, IL

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Sexual Chocolate wrote:

Vexer wrote:

I don't think people hated the film just cause they hated the whole "Bennifer" thing either

I can't speak for the general public, but I can say without any doubt that those of us who covered the movie beat were sick and tired of Ben and Jen. I really do think that the animosity movie writers were feeling at the time had at least something to do with how critically reviled the film was. As I said, it's not a terrible film. I've seen far worse. But it's not a good film either; it's very mediocre, making it the right kind of movie for critics to unleash their wrath upon.

Maybe for a handful of critics, but I highly doubt the majority of critics gave the film a bad review simply because they were tired of hearing about Ben and Jen.

Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:45 pm

Sexual Chocolate

Director

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:04 pmPosts: 1748Location: New Hampshire

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Vexer wrote:

Sexual Chocolate wrote:

Vexer wrote:

I don't think people hated the film just cause they hated the whole "Bennifer" thing either

I can't speak for the general public, but I can say without any doubt that those of us who covered the movie beat were sick and tired of Ben and Jen. I really do think that the animosity movie writers were feeling at the time had at least something to do with how critically reviled the film was. As I said, it's not a terrible film. I've seen far worse. But it's not a good film either; it's very mediocre, making it the right kind of movie for critics to unleash their wrath upon.

Maybe for a handful of critics, but I highly doubt the majority of critics gave the film a bad review simply because they were tired of hearing about Ben and Jen.

I can't speak for all critics, but I spoke with quite a few that expressed a desire to see them go away. I do hope that most of them truly did give their honest opinion of the film. But I can't say for sure.

_________________Death is pretty finalI'm collecting vinylI'm gonna DJ at the end of the world.

Gigli was a final nadir of how commercially compromised cinema can be. Where the 80s gave us Mac and Me (a film where a kid jives with Ronald McDonald), the 00s gave us a live action gossip-magazine with this stale squeezing of liquidised garbage. A bad film, badly packaged, featuring the soon-to-be-doomed relationship known as 'Bennifter'. And yes, the film is bad!

It was fucking awful, and deserves all the scorn it continues to get.

Quote:

unfortunate implications of having Lopez's character- a lesbian, getting turned "straight" by Affleck's character(which was not in the original script)

Well said. A horrible mechanism that gave the film a streak of smugness among the just plain badness

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Wed Jul 02, 2014 9:36 am

ilovemovies

Producer

Joined: Tue Apr 14, 2009 11:04 amPosts: 2205

Re: The career of Martin Brest -- What happened?

Anybody who criticizes the movie for the Lopez character being a lesbian who then falls for Affleck, well they were obviously not paying attention to the movie. The movie makes it clear that the Lopez character bisexual, not lesbian.

Anybody who criticizes the movie for the Lopez character being a lesbian who then falls for Affleck, well they were obviously not paying attention to the movie. The movie makes it clear that the Lopez character bisexual, not lesbian.

BTW, it's worth noting that Affleck had previously starred in the film "Chasing Amy" by Kevin Smith, where his character entered into a sexual relationship with a purported lesbian who falls for him, played by Joey Lauren Adams. Curious how I don't recall too many protests over that aspect of that film.

Of course, Chasing Amy was a far better film than Gigli, although Gigli was hardly the worst film of all time as has been claimed by some.

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