Re: karma-kundo?

Found it It's mentioned in HoME 12 (pg. 260 in my edition, and it's Quenya and Gondor rather than Numenor)

Narmakil (9) and Kalmakil were like their father Atanatar lovers of ease; but Minalkar elder son of Kalmakil was a man of great force after the manner of his great-grandsire Hyarmendakil, whom he revered. Already at the end of Atanatar's reign his voice was listened to in the councils of the realm; and in 1240 Narmakil, wishing to be relieved of cares of state, gave him the new office and title of Karma-kundo 'Helm-guardian', that is in terms of Gondor Crown-lieutenant or Regent. Thereafter he was virtually king, though he acted in the names of Narmakil and Kalmakil, save in matters of war and defence over which he had complete authority. His reign is thus usually dated from 1240, though he was not crowned in the name of Romendakil until 1304 after the death of his father.

Re: karma-kundo?

Barbara, thanx much for looking; and Nath, thanx for turning up the info! That's a great bit of info, especially since there was a need for the office, and Karma-kundo is such a nifty, though oddball, term. I'm beta-ing a friend's story, and thought the term would be perfect for a certain line, but of course wanted to use it correctly. Also, I may want to use it for something of mine someday.

Re: karma-kundo?

May I use this in one of my AU tales? I know it's not 'exactly' yours - but you found it... I will mention where it is from (HoMe) and where I found it (Research by Nath at HASA).

I've got Denethor's sister as Regent after his untimely death and would love to go back and change it - using this title instead. But now the dilemma - I love Crown-lieutenant and I love Helm-guardian... which do I use?

Wow - Tolkien sure makes life fun, doesn't he?

Excellent job researching! Bless you!

Re: karma-kundo?

Of course, use it! though you should probably standardise the spelling to Carma-cundo, since using c is more or less the norm in Quenya for the k-sound (and while Tolkien did use 'k' at times, published names/words all use 'c').

Which to use... Crown-lieutenant or Helm-guardian. Why not use Crown-lieutenant when you refer to the rank itself and have someone make an observation about the literal meaning of the title (since high-ranking Gondorians will understand Quenya, but not speak it as such)

Re: karma-kundo?

I see exactly what you mean, for the names in the reference you use are all with the 'k' and in the copies of Tolkien that I have... these names all have 'c' instead.... So I will go with Carma-cundo....