I just wonder if the people polled actually knew their energy and gas prices would go up if action on climate change took place. Most people have no idea how it would affect them.

Mike83 |
March 2, 2017

Tar sands and fracking is costly and polluting. Solar and wind are cheapest, provide jobs and produce higher living standards. Fossil fuel companies will be sued for obfuscation about the deadly climate disruption they are causing by burning fuels.

SCCRENDO |
March 2, 2017

@massimo. Did the thought actually cross your mind that people may actually understand the consequences of climate change and want a clean environment for their children and grandchildren. Perhaps they also realize that flooding of coastal cities, mass starvation and more wars have their financial costs. They may also recognize that moving away from fossil fuels could become reduce energy costs in the future.

RedShift |
March 2, 2017

@massimob

If those people know to adjust for the health, environmemnetal costs, they just might side with the environment. Unlike the fake 'smart' conservatives, always litigating common sense.

massimob30 |
March 2, 2017

SCCRENDO - Yes it has crossed my mind, it's just that people may not know what all of that entails. Notice how no other state went in the direction of California with our Global Warming law ? The rest of the country saw how it affected us, and no one wants to follow suit. Sure, Lefties may talk a big game, but no one passed legislation like us. Funny thing is, every single person in California could drop dead tomorrow, and it would not lower the temperature a single shred of a degree.

RedShift - its very difficult to guess the costs of health and the environment. I should probably tell you that government lies all the time. A good example is the California High Speed Rail, whose estimate went from $33 billion to $98 billion.

The US represents 4.5% of the global population, unless China and India are on board, it's pointless.

What does 4.5% of the population matter if we're consuming far more fossil fuel per capita--mindless statistic in this debate. And China and India are leading the way with conversion to renewables as their cities have become unlivable due to pollution.

SCCRENDO |
March 2, 2017

@massimo. We all need to pull our weight and set an set an example. Just because your neighbor craps on his lawn is no reason for you to follow suit.

rxlawdude |
March 2, 2017

Wow @massimo. Ever heard of CARB standards? 16 other states have adopted them.

"I just wonder if the people polled actually knew their energy and gas prices would go up if action on climate change took place."
Two points on that: First, the external costs have been totally "free" to the petropolluting industries. Second, if NO action on climate change is made, the consequences would be more than a few more cents per gallon.

No?

KP in NPT |
March 2, 2017

The fossil fuel industry is government subsidized by how much a day? I forget. hmmm

Mike83 |
March 2, 2017

In Russia, the gateway to Hell. The experiment of burning fossil fuels has bad results.

Maybe people just don't want to find out what would happen if action on climate change DOES NOT take place?

And by the way energy and gas prices will not go up because they will be capped by ever falling prices of renewables.

Mike83 |
March 2, 2017

Al1+10
Logic is beautiful.

SCCRENDO |
March 2, 2017

@Mike. I wish we could provide some to our present leaders.

massimob30 |
March 3, 2017

Bighorn - it's just conversation at this point. Until they walk the walk, it's only conversation.

massimob30 |
March 3, 2017

Rxlawdude - businesses pass their costs onto consumers, this is pretty well known at this point. So yes, the costs to businesses has been zero.

I just think the apocalyptic predictions seem to be a bit much. Look at what Al Gore predicted and what has come true, it's embarrassing.

massimob30 |
March 3, 2017

SCCRENDO - if my neighbor took a dump on his lawn, maybe I should applaud him. He would be fertilizing his lawn, helping it grow, which would absorb some CO2. It wouldn't be my method of choice, but he is pulling his weight and setting an example.

massimob30 |
March 3, 2017

Al1 - Come to California, your theory doesn't pan out. We have the highest gas prices in the nation, by a huge margin, and some of the highest energy prices.

Our local electric co-op offered solar generated electricity for an additional monthly cost per kW. So far, not many are wiling to help fund a change to cleaner self sustainable power. Our various counties are also in the process on blocking Wind Turbines.
"Not In My Backyard"
They can't see that far down the road I guess.
As to many of our complaints, be it 'Buy American' or supporting 'Cleaner Energy', most are not willing to vote for 'Change', with their dollars or are not willing to implement local support groups to help enlighten people.

rxlawdude |
March 3, 2017

"We have the highest gas prices in the nation, by a huge margin, and some of the highest energy prices."

We also have the strictest restrictions on formulation of gasoline and the refineries. I appreciate the cleaner air. Obviously, some don't. (May I suggest lovely Bakersfield as a domicile?)

Mike83 |
March 3, 2017

@SCCRENDO
The old adage about the least capable people get advanced rings a bell. Uneducated people are very unhappy and I can see their frustration as they certainly cannot connect the dots but to claim they know better is the epitome of arrogance. Having lived awhile I see the same mistakes again and again.

Uncle Paul |
March 3, 2017

Almost all Americans want climate change action...but they want somebody else to pay for it!

SCCRENDO |
March 3, 2017

@massimo. I guess its good I don't live in your neighborhood

Mike83 |
March 4, 2017

Fake Mclary is spreading Fake news. LOL. Must be involved with the fledgling short stock investors. This is good to see.

massimob30 |
March 6, 2017

Rxlawdude -

Look at the temps since we passed our global warming law in 2006, it has gotten much hotter. That shouldn't have happened since we have stricter rules on carbon emissions.

SCCRENDO |
March 6, 2017

@massimo. Perhaps you are beginning to understand. Yes it's getting hotter because greenhouse gases are still rising. CO2 levels passed 400 ppm. Which means we have do a lot more than we are doing now. Perhaps you need to tell McLary and Mitch???

Mike83 |
March 6, 2017

OVER 406 PPM. I can't post graphs anymore but here is a link and the graph is terrifying.

The world knows this and unfortunately we have laggards who to me just are a bunch of lazy bums.

rxlawdude |
March 6, 2017

@massimob30, your example is as simplistic as expecting a mile long train traveling 60mph to stop in 500 feet.

Look up "inertia" and "hysteresis." The science might help you understand, if you believe in science.

CyrusO |
March 6, 2017

I want my 3

SCCRENDO |
March 6, 2017

@phawker. No they don't. They realize that we have to pay for it. But Elon Musk has shown us it can be affordable.

massimob30 |
March 7, 2017

Rxlawdude - in other words, you have no idea either. Keep in mind the laughable predictions made by Al Gore et al and what came to fruition. Since you are making the claim, the burden of accuracy in on you, not me.

Mike83 |
March 7, 2017

LOL. The climate change deniers have lost it.

rxlawdude |
March 7, 2017

@massimob30, you're like talking to a brick wall. I do hope you live in an area with "relaxed" environmental protections. Let us know, say in 20 years, how that worked out.

Over 100 GW of Solar Power installed. US was part of that. was is the keyword.

massimob30 |
March 8, 2017

Rxlawdude - You lost credibility when your side predicted gas would be $9/gallon, milk would be $13/gallon, and NYC would be underwater by now. Sorry, you are not allowed to be that wrong in the name of science. In fact, you would be/should be laughed out of the room.

@massimo. What are you talking about? If you truly want to discuss credibilty lets begin with Trump and then the Republicans.

mschaffer11 |
March 8, 2017

"Rxlawdude - You lost credibility when your side predicted gas would be $9/gallon, milk would be $13/gallon, and NYC would be underwater by now. Sorry, you are not allowed to be that wrong in the name of science. In fact, you would be/should be laughed out of the room."
Post your sources that show the original unaltered quotes.

Mike83 |
March 8, 2017

Wow. Amazon putting in Solar. Companies and Americans are going Green and the Deniers are viewed as the Fakes.

@massimo, although others have already tore you a new one, I must comment on your "You lost credibility when your side..."

This indeed is the problem with the world, and politics as practiced by many on YOUR SIDE, today. It's OUR side or nothing. No logic, no compromise, no recognition of the spectrum between violet and red. Sad.

johnse |
March 8, 2017

In downtown Seattle there is a major networking hub in the Westin Office Building. The building started as a normal office building tower right next to the Westen Hotel. A coincidence placed a crossing of major Internet backbones directly below the building and the building was converted entirely to network operation centers and server farms.

They generate a lot of heat.

Amazon is building their new office towers across the street from this Westin tower, and they are heating the new buildings with the waste heat from the server farms.

They also have Windows that open (on a 38 floor office building) and when the weather is appropriate, they shut down the building's HVAC and a green light turns on to indicate that people should open the windows.

Mike83 |
March 8, 2017

Thanks johnse.
I just order some peppercorns, sea salt and some other items from Amazon. They are doing extremely well.
Utilizing wasted heat and now sunlight makes good economic sense.
Our PV panels are awesome for 5 years now and saved up money. After 4 years of sun electricity that paid for our costs we have been living on free energy. We want to find a good lot and build a Tesla like home with their solar roofing. We can do a lot on the local levels also.
Remarkable how easy this is to do nowadays. I look forward to new developments in energy improvements.

No one here has tore me a new anything, from what I am reading here, no one here will.

I don't have a side, other than what we know is true. The truth is, your side sucks at making accurate claims. The truth remains that we affect our environment, and as the prevailing species, we should lead in being responsible overseers of our planet. We now have the tech to meet our energy needs in a clean way, and that is the direction we should go.

There is an inherent flaw in humanity, in that we think we know everything. We think we fully know how a 4.5 billion year old rock in space behaves, and cannot seem to handle when we are wrong. Look how wrong we have been in years past. What I am saying is, stop the doomsday scare (which you have been wrong on time and time again, leading to deniers), when a more irrefutable argument can be made.

Mike83 |
March 10, 2017

Fake news works on some I guess.

rxlawdude |
March 10, 2017

What we know is true is that the vast majority of climate scientists agree about ACC.

Mike83 |
March 10, 2017

I recently watched (on Netflix) "Finding Altamira" which shows the religious prejudice against science over 120 years ago. Lots of similarities to the current extraneous reasoning that assaults intelligence and science. At least most people have learned from the past but others are still living in fear

bigd |
March 10, 2017

Mikey, just a question, why do you want to incite so much anger and hate? You continually troll the site with one-sided information that is wrong and you do not understand. I think you enjoy getting others to argue. Did your Momma not pay you enough attention ????