redskinz4ever wrote:i don't vote but we live in america and that alone gives me and who ever else who whats to speak thier minds can.so with that i say... we tried to help which at the time i thought was the right choice and still do.but at the same time from where i stand seems to me that a lot of people from iraq don't. want our help any more.so we tried to be the big brother and with over 600 deaths right now, when is enough...ENOUGH.don't give me that i'am not american cause i don't vote crap.i support the armed forces very much and i love what they do for "MY COUNTRY"so you have freedom to vote and i have the freedom to not vote if i chose not to.i understand the way of life overseas but guess what... what gives us the right to change thier way of life or who or what someone believes in.we got saddam hussien and thats great!!!but its time to bring our troops home-don't let this become another vietnam war where we tried to make a difference and lost a lot of lives.so in closing i hope we are doing the right thing by standing our ground overseas.REDSKINZ4EVER!!!!

Pulling out our troops now is the worst thing we could do. The terrorist will see it as a victory. In fact, it will be a victory for them. Then there will be a power vacuum. Mercenaries will try to gain power and it will create a civil war. Instead of a democracy, you'll have another Taliban.

The Taliban actually got pretty lucky, it's not very often you will have a group as organized as them. If we broke their backs it would be a while before another group with that kind of pull came to power again...

The Taliban got their big break in 1998, there was a conference of terrorist elite and they agreed to buy tons of weapons from Ukraine... the Taliban used these to get their act together and to take power :-\

But this situation is going to have to get a LOT worse, before it gets better

I'm not so sure about this. Yes, we are hearing terrible things about the fighting and the deaths. I wish that there weren't any deaths or any more than there would have to be. However, if before the war even started someone told you: within a year or so of the war starting we will have taken out the government, maintained relative order (understanding that some outbreaks will happen--it is not total chaos over there), and gotten a constiution well under way with the Iraqi people themselves -- would you have believed them?

I'm not saying that things are the best they could be, but I think some perspective helps me realize just how not-so-bad this has been overall.

"I’m never under the assumption that you draft for need. You draft the best available football player on the board. ... Because, in the long run, they are the ones who will help you win the most games." - Scot McCloughan

Wow!! Some of the comments made on this topic bogle my mind! I do agree that some Americans have lost sight of 911 and all the loss and distruction that terrorism brought to USA soil...This cold hearted, well planned, evil act by organized terrorist took the breath away from our great country, ending many precious lives and devastatingly affecting the lives of loved ones left behind. The loss of property was enormous but not near as monumental as the loss of "security" all Americans felt and had come to take for granted! To have such a blatant show of hate towards America and all we stand for and an obvious "Act of War" thrust upon us, we had no choice but to fight back!! To fight for the Freedom our Forefathers fought so hard to give us!! Go after the cowardly attackers, but who, who do we go after? All efforts were made to discover who would do such an horrific deed to Americans. Terrorist were responsible for this mass destruction and we had to go after them the best way we knew how, since ,like all cowards they hide behind others, we needed to go after those that helped fund and harbor these criminals. Saddams past History made him a prime target and rightly so! His atrocities were common knowledge for years and none before President Bush had the guts to take care of this problem. After futile attemps in Afghanastan to filter out Bin Laden we had to start looking towards those who would protect and hide him and his hate group. Our Government had knowledge of Saddams ties to terrorist groups such as Osama Bin Laden and Al Quida and started looking there for retrobution. The evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction was overwhelming and from there events snowballed. Saddams complete and utter defiance of the United Nations attempts to go in and search for these weapons was more then enough reason to go to war. I think our only downfall was to "show our hand" and tell Saddam that if he did not cooperate and give up the weapons we would invade. Saddam had more than enough time and the know how to transfer these weapons so they would not be found. However, soldiers did find several camps with the materials to manufacture these weapons and we know for a fact this mad man used many of them on his own people!! Many other nations were behind us in this effort to rid the world of this evil man. I support our brave troops and our President wholeheartedly!! I pray for the couragous soldiers who lost their lives and their families! Terrorist might have taken our breath away on Sept. 11th but only temporarily, we have caught our breath and now breathe stronger than before and because of brave Americans willing to fight for our honor and freedom it gives us and generations to come the prospect of a stronger more unified and Secure country determined to be free!

skins fan in indiana wrote: Our Government had knowledge of Saddams ties to terrorist groups such as Osama Bin Laden and Al Quida and started looking there for retrobution. The evidence of Weapons of Mass Destruction was overwhelming and from there events snowballed.

while i appreciate your enthusiasm, i can't say that i know of any information that connects bin laden with saddam. nor do i believe that the government has provided any. experts on terrorists have themselves said that those two do not work together.

also, if the evidence of weapons of mass destruction is so overwhelming, why haven't we found any yet?

I'm a jack of all trades, the master of three
Rockin' the tables, rockin' the mikes, rockin' the young lay-dees.

As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted to
say thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a very
poor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I have
not been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. And
just so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that is
noteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list of
things that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friends
and compare it to the version that your paper is producing)

-Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq.
-Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations.
-Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that were stored there so education can occur.
-The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off loaded from ships faster.
-School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war.
-The country had it's first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August.
-The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.
-100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35% before the war.
-Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are in place.
-Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city.
-Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets.
-Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country.
-Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers.
-Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever.
-Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs.
-An interim constitution has been signed.
-Girls are allowed to attend school for the first time ever in Iraq.
-Text books that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I have
met many many people from Iraq that want us there and in a bad way. They say
they will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their children
will. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere to
dispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sure
to give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier will
set him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this period
of rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them know
there are good things happening.

Texas Hog wrote:As I head off to Baghdad for the final weeks of my stay in Iraq, I wanted tosay thanks to all of you who did not believe the media. They have done a verypoor job of covering everything that has happened. I am sorry that I havenot been able to visit all of you during my two week leave back home. Andjust so you can rest at night knowing something is happening in Iraq that isnoteworthy, I thought I would pass this on to you. This is the list ofthings that has happened in Iraq recently: (Please share it with your friendsand compare it to the version that your paper is producing)

-Over 4.5 million people have clean drinking water for the first time ever in Iraq. -Over 400,000 kids have up to date immunizations. -Over 1500 schools have been renovated and ridded of the weapons that were stored there so education can occur. -The port of Uhm Qasar was renovated so grain can be off loaded from ships faster. -School attendance is up 80% from levels before the war. -The country had it's first 2 billion barrel export of oil in August. -The country now receives 2 times the electrical power it did before the war.-100% of the hospitals are open and fully staffed compared to 35% before the war. -Elections are taking place in every major city and city councils are in place. -Sewer and water lines are installed in every major city. -Over 60,000 police are patrolling the streets. -Over 100,000 Iraqi civil defense police are securing the country. -Over 80,000 Iraqi soldiers are patrolling the streets side by side with US soldiers. -Over 400,000 people have telephones for the first time ever. -Students are taught field sanitation and hand washing techniques to prevent the spread of germs. -An interim constitution has been signed. -Girls are allowed to attend school for the first time ever in Iraq. -Text books that don't mention Saddam are in the schools for the first time in 30 years.

Don't believe for one second that these people do not want us there. I havemet many many people from Iraq that want us there and in a bad way. They saythey will never see the freedoms we talk about but they hope their childrenwill. We are doing a good job in Iraq and I challenge anyone, anywhere todispute me on these facts. So If you happen to run into John Kerry, be sureto give him my email address and send him to Denison, Iowa. This soldier willset him straight. If you are like me and very disgusted with how this periodof rebuilding has been portrayed, email this to a friend and let them knowthere are good things happening.

To Ray Reynolds...Thank you for your post, I will pass it on to anyone and everyone who wants to seek the truth!! The liberal press has done every thing in its power to portray all events of the war in an unfavorable way! Yes, the people of Iraq do want us there and they appreciate all that we are doing for them. Their prayers and crys for help have finally been heard. Your list is evidence of the possitive effect the invasion has had on a Country in desparate need of liberation from tyranny! Thank you for your service to Our Country and your selfless act to bravely help others. For your final weeks in Iraq I pray for your safe return home and the safe return home of all Soldiers!

Calling the media "liberal" or even "conservative" for that matter is assinine.

The "media" is a gigantic entity spanning millions of newspapers, radio stations, television stations and magazines... do you honestly believe that these millions of companies have come together behind a common goal to hide the truth from people?

For what cause? To what end?

There may be some good coming out of this war but no one is looking past the here and now... the situation over there will get a lot worse before it gets better...

Oh, and as for everyone in Iraq wanting us over there... asky my friend Chris who's convoy gets hit with bottles and improvised explosive devices on occasion.

There is a lot of grey area here, and it angers me that people can just look at the situation and say this is "good" or this is "bad".

Texas Hog - God Bless You My Man!
I know that Pat Tillman would hate all the attention given to him. We're all in this together. Thank God we've got able bodied, patriotic people to keep us free from evil bastards. Seriously, reading your post gave me goosebumps and made me stop. Thank you for your post, your patriotism and your fact listing! - Proud American!

Skinsfan55 you need to look at the facts. When President Clinton was in office how many times did the media call him Mr. Clinton. I can tell you it hardly ever happend. It doesn't even happen now. Listen to a report about Bush and it's always Mr. Bush. Never President Bush as it should be. The office of president is one that should be respected and the media as a whole does not. Don't go into earning respect or any crap like that because I can think of one act that would earn disrespect forever from Clinton. I really get sick of signing on here and you calling someone else's view assinine. You need to get used to the idea that not everyone agrees with you. And not everyone needs to. You keep jumping into things and telling people "to stop" or that their views are "assinine". That is not the way to start a civil adult argument. You have just put anyone with this view on the defensive. It's hard to expect people to respond to this in any other way but anger. You have a view and you are obviously not going to listen to anything that differs from that. So this entire thread has been pointless. Yes your friend saw one thing, and this guy saw something else. Ever think that your friend is in a different area or Iraq. One with alot of Saddam loyalists still. And the people who would be greatful are hiding under their beds?? The other guy could be in an area where there is no fear of such attacks. You need to understand that you do not see everything in the media. And like it or not the media is tainted by politics. That's obvious in everything they report. I just wish you'd open your mind for once about other possiblities. Your view may not be the right one and mine may not be the right one but it never hurts to listen without name calling.

Whenever I start to get blue, I just breathe!

My favortie line from the Simpsons:

Flanders: "Looks like someone is having a pre-rapture party!"

Homer: "No Flanders, it's a meeting of gay witches for abortion , you wouldn't be interested!"

Generalizing a entire worldwide entity as viewing something one way or another is assinine. Not ALL media is like that! Saying "media as a whole" just doesn't make sense.

For your information, I don't believe there are very many Sadaam loyalists in Iraq, but I do believe there is a heavy anti-American sentiment in Iraq and the middle east. All muslim people have been called upon by various leaders to kill Americans no matter what the situation... we are just the latest in a long line of middle eastern invaders and I can say that we are not well recieved in this part of the world. If anyone if gullible enough to think that fixing a few roads or building a few schools is gonna make people think fondly of us in this part of the world then I have some prime real estate in Florida they might be interested in.