Richard: That doesn't help me because I can't use those URIs in external, unmodifiable components.

15:33:04 [Norm]

Alex: For caching to work, then we need a way for people to order things.

15:33:51 [Norm]

Norm: There was strong resistance on the list to any sort of dependency support and I don't see any consensus being acheived on the caching issue.

15:34:03 [Norm]

Alex: I'm not a fan of caching.

15:34:42 [Norm]

...I don't want to be in a situation where arbitrary things can pull documents from a cache so that I have to store everything.

15:35:07 [Norm]

Richard: I don't think the caching solution is a good solution anyway. What we have here is the temporary file problem. Having fixed names doesn't work.

15:35:52 [Norm]

...Suppose there's a subpipeline that works by constructing a partial stylesheet or something. Now if you use that module twice, you'll have a conflict.

15:36:19 [Norm]

Richard: Programming libraries usually do this with dynamic names, but that's inconvenient in cases like XInclude.

15:36:55 [Norm]

Norm: I don't think we're making progress towards an answer. Without a good proposal on the table, we should probably move on.

15:37:21 [Norm]

Norm: Is there anyone that wants to continue discussing the caching issue?

15:37:51 [Norm]

Richard: If we can't come to a conclusion about it, we ought to produce a list of use cases that seem to require it. That way we have something to test future solutions against.

15:39:16 [Norm]

Norm: I think the XInclude/XSLT import/Schema include use case is the only one I can think of. Richard's observation of the problems of multiple inclusions of the same subpipeline is an interesting wrinkle.

15:39:37 [richard]

moz - I suppose a scoped catalog mechanism might work for multiple instances

15:41:07 [Norm]

Norm: Given a component that can produce a URI for a local file and another component that can replace attribute values, you can probably work around this situation.

15:41:18 [Norm]

Alex: You may also be able to work around it with the p:insert component. Possibly.

15:41:38 [Norm]

Norm: I propose that caching is dead.

15:41:52 [Norm]

Topic: Dependency managentment.

15:43:24 [Norm]

Norm: I propose dependency management is dead. We can abdicate responsibility for side-effects in V1.

15:43:36 [Norm]

Alex: You can also use p:group and a funky parameter to force the order.

15:44:15 [Norm]

Topic: Review of the step library

15:44:40 [Norm]

Alex: We went through the list last time.

15:46:00 [Norm]

Alex summarizes his current work queue from last time.

15:46:19 [Norm]

Alex: there's a question about non-XML syntaxes for RELAX

15:46:31 [MoZ]

yes

15:46:34 [Norm]

Norm: I'd like to find some way to start a discussion of the component input and output vocabularies.

15:46:43 [MoZ]

and for XQuery also

15:47:26 [Norm]

Norm: We have specialized input/output vocabularies for store, XSL-FO, and httpRequest.

15:48:12 [Norm]

Alex: XQuery also has one.

15:49:15 [Norm]

Alex: The httpRequest component is most odd. Most other components consume things described in other specifications.