was it could? to like this? that is our show tonight. [applause] >> and now john stossel. john: food can kill. people will eat the wrong stuff

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may get sick. it's while most everyone says we need government to set some limits. make sure there is not bacteria in your food or dangerous chemicals. to make sure food companies tell you what is in their food and how fattening it is. state legislator felix ortiz has done that in new york city. he got trans fat man, calorie counts posted at mcdonald's and other fast-food places. now he wants aban on adding too much salt. so you think he saved lives? >> absolutely. john: okay. a farmer. he grows vegetables dollar raises cows, chckens, an pigs. i assume you want the people who buy your beef and pork to be safe. so don't we owe him a vote of thanks for saving this? >> no. i would say you're killing me out here. trying to get my stuff to market. this plethora of government regulations, you know, is killing our farm and our ability

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to come to market. john: you are just a greedy businessman and don't care if people died. let's go through some of the ways that assemblyman ortiz has saved the chance that band. >> that is old news. john: you wann a tax on junk food. >> the carbohydrate product that is in the market. we are giving the consumer is the choice to a choose what they want to consent. john: good food would cost less. degree food would cost more. >> that is totally correct. john: orange juice and apple seized on food? >> well, i don't believe they are. john: more sugar than coke and pepsi. >> well, we will cross that brid when we get here, but i will tell you this much. i like my apples and oranges. john: you also helped get to these caloorie counts posted at

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fast food places. >> that is correct. john: go into mcdonald's. no, this merely calories command that helps people. >> we have monies, they make their choices based on what they see. we have managed now to see a wonderful number of decrease in people suffering from obesity and diabetes. john: decreasing. >> moving in tt direction. to mcdonald's and burger king and others are more responsible. john: a real study has been done on this. you can say, it doesn't cost that much to p up a little entellus with a calorie count is. and why you did a test. they went into fast food places that the law went into effect. oh, yes. great that we can see the calorie count and they're paying more attention. indelicate the receipts and saw that they were eating more calories. >> well, let me just say that the best thing that we can do is step get the consumer the

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choice, th option. john: wrote a book titled everything i want to do is illegal. [laughter] >> right. [applause] de. john: what is your point? >> my point is that every time the government penetrates into the food system the abuses mount up from the big guys and little guys like us get routed back from the table do to a smothering bunch of regulations.

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vernment interventions come at the result of wind things it out of control. i health care costs to go $150 billion. john: it's his body.

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he can make his own stupid choices. >> i never believe that i'm hurting anybody's freedom. jo: you are banning things. you support the ban on the soft drinks. >> well, the big soft drink is important to realize that we need said -- you have children at the age of nine. th suffer from hypertension as a result of too much soda, too much sugar as a result that people are not taking their own responsibility. that is when government jump into it. john: how can you say you're leaving them your toys? you're not. >> well, they should be glad. we're trying to do it. john: this is dangerous. too big. >> depending how many of those you have. john: ilegal. >> that's the reason i have the surcharge on it, to make sure that people get discouraged from

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getting this kind of items. john: and you want to -- [talking over each other] john: it baena said drink this size. >> -- [talking over ea other] >> i think that is a great idea, and by will continue to support my mayor. john: you want to ban extra salt. >> this is a very important item that we need to discuss and talk about it. when you talk about having too much sodium on products, were talking about a stroke, a hypertension. >> governments can tell you you can't eat the soda or salt, the same government that kentucky you can't an alternative treatments for cancer therapy a government that decides that it can tell you that you cannot make a risky decision isa government that can deny you the right to make al decision. you cannot have both.

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john: last point. you support the mayor. you support his ban on that basis, shelters. one man who donated for 20 years was turned away when he tried to give bagels nd carrot. you didn't not know the salt and sugar content. [laughter] >> let me just make something very clear about what i support or don't support. sometimes i go to restaurants and have my own choices. i asked the waitress, can you tell th chef to make sure there is no salt and my items. and i make those choices. and -- john: you don't want salt i can't have solved? >> you still will have your choice, but at the same -- [talking over each other] >> limit the amount of salt into yourur plate. and saving your life in the life of the people of this nation. john: thank you so much, felix, for seven my life. joel, thanks for giving me more

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choices, which i prefer. currently is our government are certain it is their job to help us exercise, eat less and lose weight. more must be done to get healthy food and support neighborhoods. my next guest is the author of the hundred six which says that the and salty food are drugs, like cocaine and math and need to be kept away from kids. dr. pam pq teaches medicine at the university of maryland actually believes that food is like coke and mass. >> not food, just certain foods. and -- john: salty and fatty. >> sherry, vatican and salty foods that have been studied by world-class scientists at the national institutes of health. what is fascinating, what to do th all of tht. i will tell you something. i have been staunch allies about this. john: what does that mean?

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>>oard is the role of government when you find that that n certain people when you have exposure to a lot of these refined process foods, not apples and oranges internet and the rest off it, but the other stuff. in certain people it really, you know, based upon very credible brain scans and excellent work really works on the brain and the reward center just l

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very susceptible to this. here is what you need to do. if you take -- let's just take that bottle of nasty stuff there. let's just say we ta that right there. if you say that i cannot have a 16-ounce, what am i going to do if i have an isue like food addiction? i'm going to score in some other way. you can charge me, make me run around with 8 ounces instead of 16 ounces, but somehow i am going to sre this thing. you cannot do a thing about that john: you are against the ridiculous soda size thing, but you do say in your book, make

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three programs available to get people to detx and get off these foods. >> i didn't say it was government. i said, can we have programs. there are already in existence right now, all done by private organizations. overeaters anonymous, food addicts anonymous. john: not governments. >> nothing to do with government . and we actually agree about that. i told you. [laughter] john: un delighted. how about the other issue. i am told there are food deserts' where poor people live and we have to invite supermarkets in, give them tax breaks or maybe pay for it because they cannot get fresh food. that is why they arefat. >> ever since, you know, that original ms. -- missed came out about the food doesn't we found out that by doing research it really was not true at all.

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and they actually do have the supermarkets. you still have a choice, and we are right back to where we go again. i want a ground surge of citizens out there who are highly enlightened about this too can finally get on out and do something for themselves. they are the ones with the choice here, and they need to be doing that for their families as well. john: voluntary. >> nutritionists. john: thank you. coming up, our tastetest. to you prefer beef steak or zebra steak? our audience will weigh in. also, are you ready to eat some swine? [applause] at a dry cleaner, we replaced people with a machine. what?

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cannot talk about it because they have sued abc. it is outrageous. this company secretly peddles this horrible thing called pink slime, and ty won't talk about it now that they were caught by those heroes at abc? except, speaking of food but, what i just said now is of her bunk.

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and meat is safe. what abc calls pincus line is safe. explain. >> well, when the polite word. abc went on a crusade. three nights in of rope. the first three minutes of their broadcast yhes said thatterm. john: well, why shouldn't they? >> because it's not. it's ground beef. have been to the factory where they manufacture this. i am a city boy. jo: there is some of it in here. i'm going to eat. >> we have all eaten it. a couple of activists did not like this scientific process that separates the beef trimming so that you get the remaining ground beef. the point of this term deliberately to try to hurt this product and company. john: the company was doing somethin unique, taking the last bit of a term of meat off the bone by heing a slightly.

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that saved money and the environment. >> and not only that, tired of hearing that argument. everybody, abc constantly, eat a leaner beef, worry about your health. so when we tried to eat it did take that away as well. john: not using it wastes 5,000 cows a day. >> they said the term pink slime 178 times either on their broadcast or with jim antelope. john: then they started taking it back. >> they started out. this is classic. they said, a term commonly used. then, of course, what you find is it is not. "washington post," new york times, one or two times at most that they had ever used it prior to that. john: what is the agenda? >> well, always the activists who are pushing against the food

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in general. what happened was this comes from a movie. a lot of the bad things in society come from movies. shooting to put out by participant media there were so proud of this process st amazing to look at. thee let these people and the videotape. you don't dare let anybody videotape anything bcause they demonized. john: the company closed three out of four plants, laid-off workers. >> in the economic down is far worse than that. john: has not been a single incident of anybody being hurt. and what the industry calls it is just lean beef trimmings or finely textured. no slimy than other parts of beef. >> the company here has received awards for how good a job they

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do for consumer safety. it was just one constant is a job. john: and that the company is suing abc. i don't like that. that is saying we disagree and you should just shut up. there ought to be some other way to fight back. but the free speech, we have a right to be foolish. >> they don't have a right to slander or misstate things. john: somebody was. reported that. >> and the reason why they sued for over a billion dollars, the reason why they sued, we told you this was factually ncorrect. we told you you were disparaging our product. what they tried to dubai targeting the supermarkets and the companies may use the product, they're trying to shut them down. john: for the record, if you are upset about what abc said, you should kno that there is all kinds of stuff in food that probably would bother you more. the fda says in a jar of mushoms the size there can legally be no more than 20

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maggots. and a box of raisins there can be no more than 35 fruit fly eggs. and this much pas can have up to 450 bug parts. i'm not saying any of thesedo, but that is the law. most of these products have been set parts, things that are far grocer then finally textured beef. it is an organization that wants to get you, and it will. >> they did. thank you. i invited old abc bosses to come on this program in response, but they did not respond. coming up, a taste test. passing out samples of zebra and antelope meet. which tastes better? should we even eat that? if so,then what about a horse or dog?

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what are the limits? that is next.

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♪ john: we eat lots of peace in america and chicken, but what about coor's or zebra? why don't we eat those? aren't the kind of like cows? some of you shudder at the idea, and it is illegal in some places like california and illinois. conventional wisdom says it is not riht to eat a zebra or a water buffalo or a horse. so how many of you are repulsed or bothered by the idea and would not do our taste test? a few of you. okay it is just wrong. well, that is bought, says the chef at beaver creek ranch in

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texas. beavercreek is a resort where guests pay to have zebra, water buffalo, and this cute animal. they eat what they kill command they eat it after it has been cut by the chef. so at their ranch people come for this. they are not squeamish. >> right. fourteen different varieties of animals. pick out which one you want to hunt for. the harvest the animal, bring it back and cook it. john: people say it tastes good. >> and it's bettefor you because it is leaner. i have been a chef for years. it beef from the grocery store verses cooking as zebra, if yu cook it and put it on the grill there is so much more fat. it's a lot more lane. you have to do more to it, baby it, tenderize it.

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john: lean means tough. >> but if you add fat to it, good fat like a jam to blackberry jam and coated with that and then grow it in you get a whole different taste and health-conscious. john: you put no limit on what you would eat. horse, dog, cat. john: can you understand why some people are put off? >> i do. john: before tonight's show we cut some zebra and a kind of antelope. and, as you saw, we offer samples of it to our audience. which is better? and people tell the difference? we did not tell them. we labeled the meet a, b, and see. let me ask you. who like a? b? c?

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roughly evenly divided. i think see get the

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>> this led to the food pyramid. now michele obama tester new version out. this is all based on settle time. we found this clip of the government scientist behind this, testifying on senate. >> we will plead again orley here for more research on the problem before we make an announcement the american public. >> i would wait until every last shred of evidence is in. john: politicians, as usual, sold us a bill of goods. that is one way to look at it. >> basement we are about to engage in this huge nutritional experiment. the american public is the

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subject and 30 years later we have gotten sicker and sicker. john: there is much more information about nutrition and not getting fat come and we are fatter. >> we are more diabetic and fatter. the i can all be fixed with good science. john: you have a book called "good calories, bad calories." but i know that a calorie is a calorie. >> the reason we get thats because we take in more energy than we expected. it becomes a unit of heat. protein, fat, the different types of carbohydrates, the glucose from fructose sugar, they all have different effects. whether or not you will store

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calories as fat order there will not the calories come up with a hormonal effects of the food. how much energy bring to us. john: but the u.s. department of health says a calorie is a calorie. >> it just hasn't been tested. one of the things we did when i started this organization. john: this being? >> the nutritionist study. we went back to world war ii to every scientist that attempted to answer that question. we foun 82 studies that have attempted to answer that. they were all probably the same limitations and prlems. in 2012, there is plenty of anecdotal evidence. a calorie is not a calorie,

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necessarily. john: one thing that absolutely must be true if you should eat less fat. yet you eat lots of fat. and you're a doctor. a stanford docto what's that about? >> like i said, three or four yes ago, when i got to the point where ms. chu overweight d my wife said i needed to be a little less not so thin, i realized that i probably had a carbohydrate intolerance issues in all of whole grains and things that i was eating were probably leading to be becoming fatter. and if i stripped that stuff out of my diet and i ate more fat, believe it or not, all of the metabolic derangement that was underpinning my propensity to gain weight would go away. lo and behold, it did. john: you are not fat now by getting fat. the question is, what happened to peter? what happe to a lot of people in a totally? they get rid of the carbohydrates in the diet. they add back fat and they lose weight. is that a bizarre anecdotal

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event that just happened? is a common? maybe it's the nutritional vice we are all getting is wrong. >> back in the 60s, these people would eat their carbohydrates, bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, it's all inherently fattening. john: you have a piece of bread and butter in your book the idea is? >> is used to be that the butter was considered healthy and the bread was considered fattening. in our government came along and decided that iwas the buer that was fattening and the bread that we should all be eating. then i coincides with an obesity epidemic. a. john: they also said the margarine was that view? >> actually they said margarine was good for you. john: they said eggs are terrible, but now they are okay. >> the reason for the living and flopping back and forth is because of the kind of research we do.

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john: why we do this? this is important. >> we can use laboratory rats. you give them the food and it does what it does anyone even a double-blind test with people. >> yes, it's take this pill or take that pill. when you study nutrition it's actually very hard. he sent people home with a diet book. we really can't measure what we are measuring. there is a gross incompetence that has led to this ambiguity anyone thank you both. coming up, did you know that the coming budget cuts will tell you? you're going to die of food poisoning? that and more foo

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john: we are back now with your comments or questions on my death. they include former dole and doctor peter, and doctor peake,

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who says that you can be addicted to food like people are addicted to cocaine. our first question is about modified foods and gm of goods. the people voted no on a, is that terrible? you want to know? is there any hard evidence to support worrs over general foods? >> i say that i should be able to label it as gm all free. we don't need more laws, we need freedom -- john: you can't label it? >> no. we don't need another labeling law. we need the freedom to do what we were on the label and let the market decide what we want to be one of the goodanswer. >> what is the idea of empty calories and are they more addicting than healthy calories? >> usually the empty calories are the refined rss.

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suddenly you when ealizing it has no major nutrients comend apologize. john: we are eating more of this stuff all the time and we are living longer. >> if you want to know something, it's all about choice. if you want to have that empty calorie on top of a cookie, knock yourself out. as long as you don't end up eating everything checked out around here. some people do that. you just have to use your own common sense. you know your body better than anybodynotice. >> [inaudible question] is across-the-board? >> it strikes me is almost

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impossible to believe that every human being on earth is going to do equally well in the exact same diet. i hope that the future of medicine and nutrition is one where we can customize and tailor things based upon both people's genetic susceptibility to certain diseases, and what we call other genetics, which is other things that influenced you up until this point in life today. >> doctor, what you were saying, your ideal diet. is it something you are advocating? >> is interesting. i think that labels are always a little bit confusing. what iould say is th when i figured out was i had a pretty significant intolerance most of the foods i was eating. what i when i eat it probably looks a lot like what someone consumed in a paleolithic time. though i don't particularly adhere to a particular set of rules. i will give you an example. i think a hard-core paleolithic

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person -- for me it does well. it comes back to the theme this theme that we are hearing. at the end, the individual level is where we dig out what works. it's really good to have science that informs us of you know you're making a reasonable starting ss where to go. >> there is one glitch to that. thats you're a guy. when women have been studied with these dietary intakes have had more trouble because women are little bit more carbohydrate extracted. therefore, they will last about, i don't know, several weeks, even that long, o a strict diet like this only taken about 10% carbohydrate. women start bumping it up a little bit. a lot of this has to do with our blueprint and her makeup. when you look at the research, what we haven't seen enough of is the gender differentiations and what we can now do to be able to help you and customize that based upon gender.

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john: on that note, we thank you all. coming up, the truth about food safety. if the government has no interest in telling you. i love to eat. i love hanging out with my friends. i have a great fit with my dentures. i've always had that issue with the seeds getting under my denture. super poligrip free -- it creates a seal of the dentures in my mouth. even well-fitting dentures let in food particles. super poligrip is zinc free. with just a few dabs, it's clinically proven to seal out more food particles so you're more comfortable and confident while you eat. super poligrip free made the kiwi an enjoyable experience. [ charlie ] try zinc free super poligrip.

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where's tommy? i thought he was with you. no. jack! (playing twinkle, twinkle, little star.) don't stop! keep playing! here we go. here's the fun part! food poisoning bulletin? it once a that the government spends less. food will be less safe because of a less vigilant fda and

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marginal companies. helping to cut corners. the blazing midsummer sun beating down, cattle intends whose moist flesh and batsmen like the creators of hell. we get the drift. was bad. then we got billions of dollars of government regulation and that is why coetzee today. uv. no wonder, when republicans proposed a small cut of the funding, hello would poisoning.

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sanitation costs money. a lack of regulation, a competitive disadvange. that makes sense. it is food bulk. it's not government that keeps e. coli to a minimum. it is -- and mcdonald's and jack-in-the-box. they lost millions after food poising scandal. here is getting a bad reputation that makes the producers even more careful than government requires them to be. for example, an agriculture department has an army of inspectors eyeballing chickens on assembly lines. they watched each bird looking for visible signs of abnormality. but bacteria is invisible. food producers r