Posted
by
Soulskill
on Saturday June 22, 2013 @02:47PM
from the raising-awareness-of-unacceptable-behavior dept.

New submitter fineous fingers writes "U.S. computer security researcher Georgia Weidman has revealed on her blog that a fellow speaker at the Confidence security conference in Krakow, Poland attempted to rape her. The attack occurred in her hotel room in the early morning hours of 28 May. Luckily, Georgia was able to fend her attacker off by clocking him in the head with a coffee mug. I was personally at this conference, but was staying at a different hotel and found out about it after the fact. It was Georgia herself that told me after she gave her fantastic talk on Leveraging Mobile Devices on Pentests. That she was able to give a flawless presentation later that day and had the courage to talk about the attack on her blog shows how awesome she really is."

My take: He did go to her room. There was some sort of skirmish and both got wounded. The rest is unclear. BUT, if I were invited to someones room, and things started to get out of hand, with fighting and violence and whatnot in the air, I'd GET THE F OUT! Even if there's no attempted rape involved, you don't fight with a woman in her hotel room, even if it's just to avoid accusations. Okay, so that doesn't prove anything, I know, but you know, it is a little weird.

If you're going to accuse somebody of a criminal act, it's always a good idea to get their side of the story. http://blog.gont.com.ar/ [gont.com.ar]

When she was contacted by the Consulate, I'm sure they informed her of this: [state.gov]

If you decide to pursue your case through the Polish judicial system, the initial step isfiling a police report. It is best to do this at the police station (komisariat policji) closestto where the incident occurred, although a police report can be filed at any police station.

and

In Poland, police stations are required to take your report regardless of your nationality orresident status. Police stations are also required to provide translators, although this cantake some time to arrange; the U.S. Embassy does not provide translators. If, for anyreason, you have difficulties filing your police report with a Polish official, please let usknow immediately.

Her blog states:

The US Consulate was great though. It was a night and day difference between dealing with them and the Polish police. I’d recommend getting in touch with them to anyone who has an incident in a foreign country. While ultimately they aren’t able to force charges against him, having someone on my side was nice.

So, was a police report filed? This seems pretty straight forward and that the Polish Police have to take a report. According to the blog they were "blah blah" So, according to the blog, no. If she had any discussion with a member of the US Consulate they would have had this discussion. If she felt so violated then why didn't she file a report? It's her right and the consulate would stand behind her. why? Also her comments "Blah blah" regarding the police and not being interested are contrary of the US government's position and own documents. Sorry, this looks like a he said/she said unless there's anything else that wants to put out there.

Speaking of putting this out there, without anybody else coming forward with something, a picture a copy of a police report a criminal court proceeding, maybe Fernando her getting hauled away in cuffs perhaps? No? Why not? There's camera phones, there's other people involved who are still not being named, maybe they don't exist? I'd love to see the video, where is the video that everybody supposedly has seen? Wait, only her word?

I'm sorry she got hurt, bruised... It sounds like she gave as good as she received though (bad choice of words?)

Again, don't put this guy on trial without evidence and statements from witnesses. Also, who here thought DSK was guilty of assault on that maid in NYC from just the press reports? Was he ever on trail for it? No. He was acquitted.

I'm going to now go get some popcorn and watch the twitterscape on this one. IMO, she's an intelligent person, well respected in her field and in terms of handling this episode, as traumatic as it sounds, she really didn't handle the situation well and now she's using the web to try her case. I haven't looked anywhere else but does anybody have something more than a twitter posting about this from somebody else that was there? How about some pictures.. I'm putting on my Don Henley music now. [youtube.com]

Her account is detailed, and there are images that show the respective injuries. What, you think she attacked him and he simply defended himself by punching her in the face? His account is what I would expect coming from an asshole who does things like this and expects to get away with it. Items missing from her room just happened to "magically appear" in his room after he denied taking them? Yeah.

The Polish police do have a report, but they aren't doing anything about it. And given that they are both foreigners from different countries, it is unlikely they ever will do anything about it. Pretty typical actually if you have ever dealt with foreign authorities, even in first world countries.

Her story is far more credible than his. His story sounds more like a sociopath. The circumstantial evidence appears to be in her favor.

At the very least, hopefully other female tech experts attending conferences with this guy will be on their guard.

If you were going to make a court case out of it, posting your evidence to a blog immediately might hurt your case more than help it. It's true that this is a very public accusation without much to substantiate it, but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to want to warn people without hurting your own chances for justice in your particular case.
That public shaming requires both an unsubstantiated claim and people who take that as fact.

Are you sure? Perhaps the police didn't give a damn because since she stopped the rape before it happened they knew there wouldn't be enough evidence to get a conviction. It IS a he-said, she-said situation with no conclusive evidence beyond "Both people got injured", which isn't (and shouldn't be) nearly enough for a rape conviction.

Try that in NYC. Take a white man in a suit who walks up to a cop and complains that someone hit him and took his wallet (and he hit back). They find a black guy with his wallet and a head-wound. That'll be a conviction 99.44% of the time. Even if the guy with the wallet claims he was hit by the guy in the suit first, and when defending himself, the wallet fell out, so he grabbed it to help identify the assailant later. There's no "proof" either way, but just like if a cop pulls you over for speeding a

She didn't post any "evidence."
She posted her account, which could be anything from 100% false to 100% true.
If she smashed the guy in the temple with a coffee mug and caused profuse bleeding, there should've been ample evidence of at least her hitting him, there'd be blood in the hotel room, etc.
The police don't just yawn and walk away from a rape report where there's evidence. And why did the conference organizers suddenly give her the cold shoulder?
Oh, wait, right, Teh Patriarchy, I forgot...

Say what? According to the account she wrote on her blog, she had a black eye. Something physical went down. Has the guy she's accused written up any rebuttal to her charges?

The law enforcement officers' ought to have interviewed him for his side of the story.
I think all that's been reported that I have been able to find with Google is a denial; not an alternative version of events.

I find every time they go running to the Internet instead of the cops to be suspect frankly, as I can accuse anybody of anything and so can you..... if he did what she said she should have been on the phone to the cops not 10 minutes later, why wasn't she?

I don't know if you're illiterate, lazy, or just an ass -- but had you read the linked post, you would know that the very first thing she tried to do was contact the police, and she stuck at it for hours until she was able to get them to show up. Turns out, this can be difficult to accomplish late at night, in a foreign country where you don't speak the language, in a former Eastern Bloc country.

She was unable to get an outside line from her hotel room phone. The hotel desk clerk claimed not to understand English well enough to place the call when asked. Her own cell phone had been damaged in the attack; she eventually was able to have a friend contact the U.S. embassy, who were able to - finally - reach the Polish police.

A friend of Georgia's connected her to the US embassy; she ended up using my girlfriend's cell phone to call the police by dialling 112. (random question: how many Americans know that that's the international GSM emergency number? My guess, not many.) Still, there was a whole bunch of "not my problem" going on on the part of the hotel staff; they spoke English just fine until we asked for them to call the police; after that, the only words they said were "No speak English".

Far be it from me to expect you to have read the article, but she did go to the police, they weren't interested, her next resort was the conference organisers they decided because security footage showed her letting him into her room that meant nothing could have happened, So after this she resorts to her blog, They both have injuries from the struggle, he stole her possessions, lied about it and then they were subsequently found in his room, all of which you'd know if you'd I don't know read about it, but you instant leap to disbelieve her is admirable, it will serve you well in the future, good luck with that.

Why, oh, why couldn't you have written the summary? You actually summarize what has happened, rather than wasting a long sentence just mentioning you went to the conference and stayed at another hotel. I hope you are modded up.

Submitters - think before you submit, and make the summary so good we are not forced to read the article.Editors - feel free to edit and improve things, and importantly, you don't need to sensationalize everything for us to read it - that just pisses us off.

I find every time they go running to the Internet instead of the cops to be suspect frankly, as I can accuse anybody of anything and so can you.

Unless you have proof she didn't report this to the police, then I'd assert you are a hypocrite. Perhaps the standard of date rape is different in that location than her home, so she wasn't sure how to best deal with the local authorities. Perhaps she did report it, and it was ignored. Unless you know, you are making it up as much or more than she is. While complaining about what she did, and you are doing the same.

The only point someone should take from your post is that you are a hypocrite with no fa

It's interesting that you said 'her word against his' instead of 'his word against hers'

Does this express a bias in favor of his point of view; his word against hers, that there was no attempted assault, burglary, or rape?

You read too much into it.Her words came first (she called police) his reply came second (the police questioned him). Everything was chronological.Yet you want to find some political motive there? Would you not also find reasons to complain if the chronological sequence was reversed?

She's the one alleging rape, so it is her word against his. Now, if he were the one that was making the allegations, then it would be his word against hers.

You're not helping anybody by playing word games like this.

And no, there's no evidence of any attempted wrongdoing by him. She says that it is, but he has a black eye, and she has what looks like Indian burn, and that's not necessarily evidence of anything without more information. He could have a black eye from something else, and Indian burn isn't just

The security footage indicates he visited her, not the other way around. She was not in his room to leave things there. Why are you ignoring all the evidence to support rapists? Are you one of the nutjobs that thinks the world is out to keep the innocent white man down?

There should be two or even three standards here. There is a standard for criminal charges and there is a standard for personal judgment about the situation; who can be trusted, who you do or do not want to associate with etc.

I know Georgia, I have never met this Fernando Gont character. Four things I'd say about Georgia are she is not the type to make up facts, she is very very smart, and very career minded, a normally very easy going as far as interpersonal matters. I don't think going public with this will help her career. Sure it games her name out there but It does so as someone you might need to watch yourself around or something, if you don't already know better. If anything these accusations will hurt her unless definitively proven. So I don't see any motive to for her lie. I'd trust her even if she did have motive; because I know her to be trust worthy anyway, but even if that were not the case I can't see any incentive to lie.

As far as how I'll handle myself in the community, and what personal opinions I hold: Georgia says it happened. That is good enough for me. Maybe people how know Fernando will reach the same conclusion maybe the opposite, or maybe something in between but that is for them to decide.

If this was criminal legal matter that would be a different standard. I would just that standard if I was on a jury ( and did not know her, otherwise I'd never get on the jury), than if we take as a given all the physical evidence mentioned in their respective blog posts exits; I don't think there would be enough for me to reach any conclusions that meet the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard. If it were a civil trial that would be a lower standard but would still need to be based on evidence, not sure how I'd go on that. I would have to see this security footage, and photo, the coffee mug etc.

Theft of a passport is pretty serious. You would think the US Embassy would be pushing charges.

That she says she had to search her room after the police left suggests she didn't see him leave withher things. That seems odd, since she claims she was on the phone at that point in time, meaning shewas conscious and didn't see him leave with her passport, phone, and shoe.

It's plenty convincing. Just because a person is innocent, does not mean that providing a lot of details is a good idea. It's hardly unheard of for somebody to go to prison based upon things they've said, and then to be exonerated years later. He has encouraged anybody with concrete information to get in touch with the authorities. I'm not sure how going beyond what he's posted is good for anybody.

Justice is not the practice of having a trial and throwing people in prison, justice is about throwing the righ

Convincing? Of what? He didn't even deny anything. The closest he came to that was to condemn the method of propagation of the accusation, and didn't condemn the accusation or deny it at all, at least in the "rebuttal" I read.

He denies it. She presented no evidence. He presented none either, even though he is under no obligation to. No charges files. Her word against his.

Of course he denies it what is he going to say? "Yes I am a sexual predator"? There was plenty of evidence that something went down. There were bruises on both of their faces. Many of her items (that Gont took) were found in his room even after he denied having them. Polish Law Enforcement WAS contacted but decided not to take any action.

Of course he denies it what is he going to say? "Yes I am a sexual predator"? There was plenty of evidence that something went down. There were bruises on both of their faces. Many of her items (that Gont took) were found in his room even after he denied having them. Polish Law Enforcement WAS contacted but decided not to take any action.

Probably Polish LEOs decided that since she let him in her room in the wee hours of the morning, there is no way to determine what happened from there on.Hence, the case devolves into a she said he said, and if she won't file official charges, and stay there long enough to see it through, they will decline to make an arrest. Its up to her to file formal charges.

Okay, but where is this evidence? Others in the comments have now linked to it, but she didn't.

All I was saying is that she went with the court of public opinion but didn't provide any evidence in her blog post. Now there is some it is possible for us to evaluate the situation, as she apparently wants us to do. It certainly looks like she was telling the truth, but you wouldn't have known it if you were not already following the whole saga in social media.

They subsequently leave the hotel room with documented physical injuries.

The physically weaker person provides a detailed account of their version of events, claiming that the physically stronger person attacked them, they were luckily able to fight off the stronger person and escape, but that the local (foreign) police did not pursue this case due to a lack of conclusive evidence.

The physically stronger person responds to these allegations with a blog post titled Lies, nuts, and the quest for attention [gont.com.ar], which focuses on ad hominem attacks and how very, very butthurt he is that people are even considering these allegations. The blog post does not provide any alternate explanation for the events that resulted in injuries to both parties, or any new information at all.

I'm having difficulty coming up with a rational explanation that doesn't include the stronger person being a predator who engineered a situation where they expected to face no consequences for their actions due to the victim being in an unfamiliar environment with limited support, the disinclination of local law enforcement to become involved in a dispute between foreign nationals, and engineered absence of conclusive evidence.

My opinion? I have no doubt that her story is substantively true. The argument that 'the polish police did not arrest me, so I must not have done it' is about as convincing as tissue paper to anyone who has seen the inconsistent results of even well-trained and well-equipped police forces-- if what we've seen so far is all he has to offer then he should be rightly shunned by the tech community and then some.

Given the alleged crime and narcissistic tone of the blog post, there are likely similar victims out there. Hopefully they will come forward as well.

I don’t want to write this. I don’t want to get caught up in anything to do with this women in infosec bit. Everyone who does get lambasted so badly at this point I’d rather avoid it entirely. You can’t say anything about sexism without getting lumped in with the creeper cards or the talk canceling at Bsides SF. . . . I’m bogged down in book edits. I’m teaching a lot of new classes this summer and fall. Needless to say, I don’t have time to process this much less write about it. Plus I’ve gotten enough pushback already. People I thought were my friends and colleagues have said things to me about this that have cut deeper than the actual assault ever could. I don’t want to deal with more of that. I don’t want to see the comments for this post. But I feel like I have to do this. I weighed my options. If I shut up and do nothing and later hear he did this to someone else, I will feel personally responsible. I have to do everything I can to make sure another speaker or attendee doesn’t get worse than I got.

This wasn’t like any of those grey areas that make anybody question the validity of any rape claim. . . . . We talk for a little bit about nothing consequential. Guy jumps on me and pins me down. . . . Perhaps I was not making myself clear, “No!” “Stop!” “I don’t want to do this!” . . . Once he had my pants down and his pants down and was completely ignoring my shouting for him to stop, it suddenly became clear to me what was about to go down. He was holding my arms down of course, so I leaned up and bit him on the arm as hard as I could, at which point he started swearing and punched me in the face. . . . I managed to lunge up towards the table and grab hold of a coffee cup. I knew I only had one shot. So I hit him with everything I had, and I got him right in the temple. And guess what, he let me go.

This is the last thing I have to say about all this. My duty is done. I don’t want to be the poster girl for infosec feminism. I want to be a researcher, and a trainer, and a speaker, and an icon.

From his blog (he wrote very little):

It was brought to my attention a recent flood of Twitter messages containing a number of accusations (ranging from "horrible", to "very horrible") against my person. The accusations were originated by someone who happened to be a speaker at the same Conference . . . and, for reasons that I didn't and don't understand, has been repeating blatant lies, every time magnifying it a bit more -- which nobody in their right mind could believe. . . . think about events that happened in the last decade based on "assumptions", or the kind of anti-humanitarian scenarios this world has experienced simply because some mentally-disordered person came up with a blatant lie that everyone followed with questioning. I will personally not contribute to the existing drama, since it someone else's game to get attention at any price.

What disturbs me here is the knee-jerk suggestion that she invented the story for some unspecified reason. Statistically, only a very small number of rape accusations turn out to be fabricated. Of course I don't know for sure what happened. I've never even heard of these people before. But based on the little evidence I have seen, I know who I believe.

Well, statistics mean nothing to the individual, something is either going to happen to you or it wont. I had no opinion on the situation before but she admittedly wants "to be an icon", which lends some credence to the writings of the guy. One thing's for sure, yet another person (or possible a couple of people) proven to be an asshole. Ain't people grand?

What disturbs me here is the knee-jerk suggestion that she invented the story for some unspecified reason. Statistically, only a very small number of rape accusations turn out to be fabricated.

You have been lied to, or are just bullshitting. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and call you a fool.

Eugene Kanin study: 41% false rape figure in a metropolitan community; Follow up study finds 50% of rape allegations in college to be false, of the false charges 53% of the women admitted to filing false cla

Maybe these studies are wrong? You say there are statistics, show they aren't fabrications: Where's your study? Who told you those stats in the first place?

That cuts both ways. Kanin himself apparently cautioned against the generalizability of his findings, and some googling indicates to me that his study has been widely disputed. To quote one researcher, "Kanin describes no effort to systemize his own ‘evaluation’ of the police reports—for example, by listing details or facts that he

I've read her words and his blog and right now my money is on her story being true. She wasn't offended by him coming on to her, admits she was drinking, thought he was good looking and that she let him into her room. All things a liar would know undermines their story and would try to conceal or modulate.

If there was no attack then she put herself in jeopardy even reporting the incident. Something happened in that room that shook her up very badly and her actions and reactions were consistent with that mental state. Her telling of the story is a bit verbose but not grandiose.

In his blog he actually doesn't actually deny he attacked her. He implies she's a liar and mentally unbalanced, none of which comes across in her account of the incident. He also says he'll sue anyone who accuses him without proof, which seems a little defensive.

If her story is a blatant lie, how did she get the black eye? There were only two people in that room, the security tapes verify it was him, and he doesn't even admit he hit her. She admits she hit him with a coffee cup. And how did her stuff end up in his room?

So we have one party admitting to the facts in evidence and one suggesting the other is crazy and a liar. That's not exactly a tough case to crack.

Either your reading comprehension or reasoning skills are poor -- or both. If you
read her story carefully, you should be able to count 9 distinct pieces of evidence
that are mentioned, most of which have already been confirmed by independent
third parties. You should also be able to intuit the existence of additional pieces of
as-yet-uncollected evidence -- most of which, unfortunately, are probably
never going to be collected due to the incompetence and laziness of the
responding police department. AND,

You're a court? Unless you're a court, I don't see why you should bother with that. In objective reality, you're innocent if you do nothing wrong. This isn't quantum ethics where everything is okay until you get observed. I'm afraid that the scenario described is all too plausible. It's a pity, though - being as paranoid as I am, I'd probably keep a camera in the room, just to be sure. They build these babies really small nowadays. You never know when you might need evidence for something.

I have no idea why I was modded down as a troll, all I did was point out that in the absence of evidence everyone is innocent until proven guilty

Probably because that is incorrect and inflammatory. As of 3 seconds after the supposed incident, he is or is not guilty. He either did it or didn't do it, and proof either way has no bearing on the truth. There is an American legal philosophy (and this incident wasn't in the US), that the courts should treat someone as innocent until proven guilty to some arbitrary legal standard that's in place to help ensure a fair trial, but it is not a requirement of public or personal opinion. Implying that my per

Gont's on camera going into her room. They both have injuries. Cops verified hers shortly after Gont left the scene. So you have a situation in which a guy goes into a woman's room, then gets into a brawl with her. I can't think of many ways that goes down without sexual assault being involved. Let's say he's totally in the clear and she attacked him for some unknown reason. Maybe she wanted sex and he didn't so she clocked him with a coffee mug. Okay. If a woman did that to me, I would probably not respond by punching her in the face. I'd just leave. Given Gont's and Weidman's relative builds, it's not like she could have stopped him.

While we don't have irrefutable proof that sexual assault occurred, it certainly fits the circumstances, and I'm at a loss to come up with an explanation in which Gont comes out clean.

Not really. Her story is that he was continuing to undress her and/or trying to penetrate her after she told him in no uncertain terms to stop. Ergo he was in the process of committing a violent act (sexual assault) when she hit him. Again, if the story is accurate, her hitting him would be considered self-defense.

That doesn't "substantiate her claims." That substantiates that one person was injured, and so was another. Could have been a fistfight, could have been anything. Still her word versus his as to the cause of the fight, unless there is visual/audio evidence or other witnesses.

Actually, you're confusing "substantiate" with "prove." It does substantiate her claims, because, to use the root of the word, it adds "substance" to her claims.

If a person claimed that she had just been assaulted by someone and nearly raped, but she didn't have a mark on her, that would be rather suspicious. If she was clearly marked/bruised, but her alleged assailant was not, that would be slightly less suspicious, but still pretty hinky. But when both accuser and accused have injuries consistent with

So I hit him with everything I had, and I got him right in the temple. And guess what, he let me go. He keeled over in pain clutching his head swearing at me. Even in the dark I could see the blood gushing from his face.

Yet zooming that image shows a bruise over the left temple, but no sign of a cut, stitches, etc.

Because there is no proof and there will never be? Sometimes, that's just the way it is. Maybe she prefers going public to shame him, since it is the only way she can actually get to him. Makes sense to me. Shows a lot of courage on her part, seeing how rape victims are treated by the public opinion.

She is entitled to tell the truth. Period. If he tried to rape her, then she has a perfect right to tell the world about it. She knows the truth, no matter what the evidence is. It's up to us to weigh the evidence and determine whether we believe her. Whether she wanted to press charges is totally irrelevant -- people decide not to pursue these cases for all sort of reasons (particularly when it happened far from home, for God's sake).

Of course, if she's lying, that is another matter entirely. But everything I've seen and heard, about both this situation and this world, makes me believe her.

Unless you are in an area where tourism is important, yes, they do. They can't successfully prosecute if there are no witnesses, and if all the witnesses will be gone at the time of the trial, taking a complaint is a waste of time. So yes, many places will refuse to prosecute if they assume you won't be in town or reachable during a trial.

And not everywhere shares your views on attempted rape. She wasn't actually raped or killed, and rape isn't as serious everywhere as you imply. There was a recent case in Nigera where a mob attacked and stripped a woman for not wearing a long enough skirt, leaving her naked and abused in the street. From what I've heard, the public outcry there was in support of the mob, but I'm not in Nigera.

What kind of rapist steals a bunch of stuff? And after he had his face smashed in? Or was this from the previous night he was in her room?

What a dumb argument. Read the newspapers, and you will hear many accounts of people being both raped and robbed. And is it really so unlikely that somebody painfully foiled in an attempted rape would grab some of her stuff on the way out in a childish fit of pique to get back at her?

On the other hand, it is pretty hard to construct a remotely plausible scenario in which the weaker female initiated unprovoked violence against a stronger male and he ends up with her stuff. And why would she then accuse him o

Love the misogyny -- it's very modern. Phil Mason and Richard Dawkins would be proud of your contributions.

Some criticism, to improve your future pro-rape posts:

1) You did a great job calling the victim a "cunt", but instead of "I hope she gets sued" you should have written "I hope she gets raped" or better yet "if I saw her I'd rape her". Bonus points if you address your comments directly at the victim.

2) The victim did contact the police, a fact which has been pointed out numerous times in this discussi

While this alleged incident is reprehensible, I don't think it warrants going John Wayne Bobbit [wikipedia.org] on the perp. It's no excuse for the behavior however I do wonder why from the blog posting there's this:

Note: There will be no names named here. The perpetrator is not named. Likewise the heroes of the story who probably saved me from going to jail and at the very least comforted me when it felt like the floor was going to fall through are left unnamed. That said if you want to know the names I am willing to discuss it privately.

Okay, this raises a few questions, no names mentioned, no charges filed and I guess maybe the Police were involved or not but... shit, the blog posting reads more like "The Vagina Monologues" and goes wandering around. It may make a great chapter in an upcoming nove

I come here to/. to read about computers, software, and technology in general.

Yet what do I actually encounter? Some article about a bunch of drama that allegedly took place at some obscure conference in eastern Europe a month ago.

But what's worse is reading through comments and encountering one like this one from "decora". Why is a comment talking about violently killing somebody, then butchering the victim's genitals, and finally mailing them to the victim's mother modded up to "5, Insightful"?

Come on. That's the kind of crap I expect to see modded up at a place like reddit. And that's exactly why I don't visit reddit, but come here instead. We shouldn't have to encounter nonsense submissions like this one, nor utterly stupid (if not outright disgusting) comments modded up so highly.

Can/. please go back to focusing on technology, rather than junk like this?

attempeted murder is attempetd murder, and self defense is self defense. why would i post someting so strong?

its called a "pre-emptive strike" against all the rape apologists on slashdot and in the tech "community" in general. hit them fast, hit them hard, hit them first. you either believe people have a right to defend themselves against a violent assault, or they dont. its not drama, its not a disagreement. its a fucking attempted murder at a security con.

Had I read your post first, I'd have thought you a troll. But there are piles of people on here defending him with no "proof" while demanding she present "proof" or we should assume she's lying. Apparently women are always lying until proven otherwise, and men never are. What's funny are all the accusations that she is lying because she didn't report it to the police, when she did and they did nothing, or that he issued a denial, when the only one I read indicated she must be mentally ill, but didn't "de

No one really knows how they'd handle such a situation until they are in it. Past thoughts and declarations might predispose an untrained person to a certain action, but when a harsh reality comes suddenly and unexpectedly it's all about instinct and fight or flight responses.

I've been enough dangerous situations to know that I'm neither a courageous man nor a coward, but simply a man. I saved a roofied woman from being raped by a group of strangers and have a heavily scared face to remind me of my moment of courage. On the other hand, I ran like hell when skinheads raided my friend's party with baseball bats and knives. I have the memory of standing over my friend's hospital bed as he was nursed back to health to remind me of my moment of cowardice.

The lady from the article is alive and was able to free herself from her attacker. That is what matters.

NO no no, there is no reason why you should feel ashamed for anything anyone else did.It is as bad as people trying to make all white Americans feel bad because some shitty people kept slaves a couple hundred years ago, and pushed the natives off their land. If you personally did not do something bad, or through inaction allow something bad to happen, you have nothing to be ashamed of.

You genuinely feel shame that there is a bad guy on the planet? You must be completely wrought with shame to the point of not being able to function in society knowing just how many men (and women!) are bad people!

that Hans Reiser was an abusive asshole. i mean, where was the hard evidence? other than her bloody body lying in a trash dump a few months later, how was anyone to know the guy was guilty?

yes, why not have millions of people calling you a fucking whore piece of shit slut lying cunt bitch, on the internet? its a great career move for her small business. to beat herself in the face and then lie about it.