topic deleted due to shitheads

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The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Originally Posted by BDF

PvE ret says hi

True pve ret will lose its complete immunity bubble but you can still use hand of sac and divine sac without taking damage if you use divine protection, maybe if i add an effect that causes it to drop threat if ret or holy use it. I could also add an effect that reduces the aoe damage you take while active, ill work on that.

The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Originally Posted by zcks

True pve ret will lose its complete immunity bubble but you can still use hand of sac and divine sac without taking damage if you use divine protection, maybe if i add an effect that causes it to drop threat if ret or holy use it. I could also add an effect that reduces the aoe damage you take while active, ill work on that.

Hand of Sacrifice with Divine Protection? Really? Better just taunt the boss and just die faster.

Why? Well, unless you understand already, the benefit behind bubble + divine sacrifice is that paladin completely negates some damage, taking the relief off healers. Were the paladin using HoS during Divine Protection, he'd require about 50% of the healing otherwise done on the whole raid on HIM, unnecessarily straining the healers. No, it is either Divine Shield + HoS or none of both.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Originally Posted by Eversor

Hand of Sacrifice with Divine Protection? Really? Better just taunt the boss and just die faster.

Why? Well, unless you understand already, the benefit behind bubble + divine sacrifice is that paladin completely negates some damage, taking the relief off healers. Were the paladin using HoS during Divine Protection, he'd require about 50% of the healing otherwise done on the whole raid on HIM, unnecessarily straining the healers. No, it is either Divine Shield + HoS or none of both.

#3 Divine protection will now nullify the damage the paladin would take from hand of sacrifice and divine sacrifice effects

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Originally Posted by Nd

Yeah, because ret is doing horribly in pve/ pvp right? Basically you want to be a rogue. Here's an idea, roll one.

I think Op wanted to brainstorm some ideas to make ret more complex. That is a wish I can relate to - FCFS even with a priority list is still FCFS. I'd rather have an actual rotation than blasting everything that comes off cooldown.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Yeah, because ret is doing horribly in pve/ pvp right? Basically you want to be a rogue. Here's an idea, roll one.

Obvious Troll is Obvious. On live, Ret DPS is the worst Single-target DPS there is.

Originally Posted by Eversor

I think Op wanted to brainstorm some ideas to make ret more complex. That is a wish I can relate to - FCFS even with a priority list is still FCFS. I'd rather have an actual rotation than blasting everything that comes off cooldown.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

There are still a few problems with these suggestions.

The Divine Protection may nullify Hand of Sacrifice damage but what kind of damage reduction does the paladin get. I can absorb 40/45/50% of the damage done to 24 other people, and while that damage may not be dealt to me, your suggestion doesn't mitigate the damage done to the paladin. This may sound a bit confusing so...

Lets say that Divine Sacrifice is unimproved and redirects 40% of the party/raid damage to the paladin. You don't specify Divine Protection as an immunity but the pally uses it with HoS and 40% of all of the raid's damage is redirected to and absorbed by the paladin. Understood up to here. What happens to the 40% reduction for the paladin's own damage, not that of the raid??

Also, by removing Divine Shield and making Divine Protection only absorb HoS damage (should be a merged ability, imo), you have completely removed a prot pally's shield wall. Unless you assume that Divine Protection still reduces all non-HoS damage to the paladin by 50%.

Exorcism removed?? Thats a pretty ridiculous idea. With the ability to use Exorcism on players in 3.2, this will force warlocks and dk's to think about using their abilities. If a warlock pops Meta against a pally, they should expect to get crushed/rofl'd/pwnt/feared around in circles. The exact same applies to a DK that pops Lichborne. Its the same as a pally popping wings against a mage just to have it stolen and the pally getting wrecked by the mage that now has this massive buff.

Removing abilities that make other players think twice, is a poor decision. Without Exorcism, a warlock could effectively beat the piss out of a paladin with no consequence.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Over to the OP, stacking 100% tvice of Holy Light? That is a little too good, and increase the HoJ slightly more (40 sec?), and I would agree more with you.

If your gona be here don't insult ppl, now for the holy light the idea was to CUT the initial healing done in half then have it heal for the other half over 9 seconds so we have a hot effect, by stacking i ment letting the hot roll similar to how deep wounds damage rolls "you know you cast another holy light while the last one is still active and whatever healing is left from the original will carry over" it would give holy some utility but come at a heafty mana cost seing as how even if you crit only 30% of the mana cost will be regained, + there is the fact hot heals wont transfer on beacon target

The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

pretence ill try and answer your questions as best i can, divine protection only absorbing hos and divine sacrifice damage that's not what i said I said it would now also nullify the damage the paladin takes from them when divine protection is active as in its an additional effect on the 50% damage reduction it already does. as for divine sacrifice reducing the damage the caster takes it never did that to begin with it only redirected the damage of party/raid members to him/her.

Now for the reason i removed exorcism, I did that because we would be getting a new cleave type attack with a 6 second cool down. while it may now hit as hard it does hit far more often & we would be getting an interrupt, hammer of justice, repentance and a slightly scaled down hammer of wrath more often so we really wouldn't need the nuke anymore. Now if your going to look at that and say but with no nuke we wont beat healers even with more range closing abilities you must not have noticed the purity talent or the vindicated judgments talent

The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Every melee class in the game currently has a ranged attack that can be used against other players with the exception of paladins. You want to take away that one ability and replace it with a third instant melee special attack. Right now when doing arenas, it eats me alive inside when I see an opposing teammate sneak around a pillar or go sit in the corner and drink. Rogues and warriors can throw something at them, DK's can Death Coil them, but unless the pally has Repentance up, we can merely watch them.

If Exorcism was to be removed, Hand of Reckoning would have to be reinstated in pvp to deal damage to opposing players(even if it hit for only 1 damage) to give us the ability to keep someone in combat. TBH, I don't need another melee attack even if its a crappy version of Whirlwind/Divine Storm and it hits two players. We need an ability that every other class has to bring someone into combat from a distance aside from blowing one of our two long cd cc's.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

If Exorcism was to be removed, Hand of Reckoning would have to be reinstated in pvp to deal damage to opposing players(even if it hit for only 1 damage) to give us the ability to keep someone in combat

what you fail to realize is that exorcism can only be used if you have art of war up and if the target is far enough away to be out of combat then chances are you wont, if you want to keep ppl in combat look at the changes i did add. hammer of wrath usable regardless of targets health (on art of war proc for reduced damage), reduced cool down on repentance, reduced cool down on hammer of justice, and why complain about divine strike sure it may do less damage than whirlwind & divine storm but with talents it will deal 100% weapon damage on a 6 second cool down.

The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

Re: new ret 3.2 talent idea

Originally Posted by Ronark

Obvious Troll is Obvious. On live, Ret DPS is the worst Single-target DPS there is.

More Complex = Less FotM = more Win.

Shouldn't it though? Who should be last then? Someone has to be. Paladins are the best tanks and good healers, seems like a good candidate to me. Plus they're godly in pvp to the point of being stupid. If properly cycled between cd's with the "divine silence" idea, if you were a be, you could completely and permanently shut down a caster with the racial, hammer repentance and that silence. Sounds fair to me, considering pallies also faceroll over all other melee classes too.