Craigslist “brothel business” under fire again

It has been a year since Craigslist got rid of its "erotic services" section …

Connecticut and 38 other states have subpoenaed Craigslist over what they consider to be the "Craigslist brothel business." The states are looking for answers as to how much money the online classified site is making from sex ads and what steps it is taking to fight prostitution. The move comes a year after Craigslist agreed to shut down its "erotic services" section and step up restrictions on posting sex-related ads, but that's apparently still not enough for the 39 states.

The latest effort is being led by Connecticut Attorney General Richard Blumenthal, who believes that Craigslist has abandoned its continued promises to fight prostitution. "The craigslist brothel business seems booming," Blumenthal said in a statement. "[T]housands of ads that remain on craigslist—skimpily and slickly disguised with code words. We are asking craigslist for specific answers about steps to screen and stop sex-for-money offers—and whether the company is actually profiting from prostitution ads that it promised the states and public that it would try to block. We’re seeking answers, so we can reach legal conclusions. If it is breaking its promises to the public, it may be breaking the law."

Craigslist has been under fire for allegedly enabling prostitution for several years now. The company has responded by defending its users' rights to post whatever salacious ads they want while simultaneously taking measures to crack down on illegal activity. One of the first high-profile challenges to Craigslist came from the Cook County Sheriff's Department in Chicago, which claimed Craigslist was "the single largest source of prostitution in the nation."

It wasn't long before Craigslist decided to close its erotic services section in favor of a new, more closely watched section called "adult services." The company said the new section would feature postings by "legal adult service providers," like strippers and massage parlors. Each posting would be manually approved by moderators to ensure compliance with the site's terms of service. Postings would cost between $5 and $10 apiece and the company said that it planned to continue donating its revenues from adult services to charity.

As we (and numerous other users) discovered, of course, it wasn't particularly difficult to get around the new restrictions. Prostitutes just got more creative in their advertising—one "provider" who went by Maureen told Ars that she had begun posting ads in the less-policed "casual encounters," and that she and others had merely adjusted their wording a bit.

It's this behavior that caught the attention of Blumenthal and gang. Among the information requested in the subpoena, Blumenthal wants to see documentation from Craigslist describing its manual review process, plus information about each ad that has been rejected, along with communications from law enforcement over postings suspected of advertising illegal activity. Craigslist claims it blocks service providers that have run afoul of the guidelines through the use of credit card and phone verification—and Blumenthal wants documentation on how that works and the number of accounts blocked through this process too. Most of all, Blumenthal wants to know how much money Craigslist is bringing in thanks to these ads and where that cash is going.

Never one to take these accusations lying down, Craigslist CEO Jim Buckmaster shot back at Blumenthal on the company's official blog. "True to form, CT AG Blumenthal is once again indulging in self-serving publicity at the expense of the truth and his constituents—touting a subpoena on television and telling whoppers about craigslist 'reneging' on promises—even before craigslist had been served with a subpoena," Buckmaster wrote. He reiterated that Craigslist has "gone beyond" its legal obligations when it comes to dealing with prostitution and continues to work with its partners to fight human trafficking and exploitation. "With his senatorial race in full swing however, AG Blumenthal won’t let the facts get in the way of a good photo op. Or as I heard while in his offices 2 years ago—'The most dangerous place on earth is getting caught between Dick Blumenthal and a television camera.'"

It sure seems like catching people via Craigslist stings would be like shooting fish in a barrel. I mean, if criminals all used a well-known, openly advertised "secret hideout" to plan their endeavors would police really want to shut it down? Wouldn't it be easier to just keep catching people on their way out to commit crimes?

To quote George Carlin: "F*cking is legal. Selling is legal. Why is selling F*cking illegal? In war they give you a medal for spraying napalm on people. In civilian life they send you to jail for giving someone an orgasm."

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

What does that have to do with legalizing prostitution? If prostitution were legalized, abuse and slavery would remain illegal.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

Which, honestly, is another reason to legalize (and therefore regulate) it. If hookers worked on wage+tips (which, I understand, is how the "escort" industry works) and had basically the same healthcare and job codes as the rest of us, it should cut down on that shit.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

What does that have to do with legalizing prostitution? If prostitution were legalized, abuse and slavery would remain illegal.

I was addressing what I believe is a dangerous misconception (prostitution is always victimless), not the legality of prostitution or how to fix it.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

What does that have to do with legalizing prostitution? If prostitution were legalized, abuse and slavery would remain illegal.

I was addressing what I believe is a dangerous misconception (prostitution is always victimless), not the legality of prostitution or how to fix it.

So is farming, contracting, and pretty much any other job. There are ways to victimize people in any job. And as soon as you get into the degree of abuse, you get into gray areas.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

Those people don't enjoy the protection of the law because they are operating in a black market, and many of them are undocumented workers.

If you're already doing something illegal, how can you possibly go to the police and complain that your co-conspirators are mistreating you? Doubly so if you aren't even a legal resident, you avoid contact with with police at all costs.

This isn't a problem that laws can solve, it is a problem that education and opportunity must solve or nothing is ever going to change. Laws against prostitution don't prevent abuse, they attempt to prevent prostitution itself and fail spectacularly while enabling the very abuses commonly cited as reasons for the prohibition.

Historically there hasn't been a society that found a way to get rid of prostitution. It's like the air and the water, you just can't get rid of it. It's not a matter of "if" it should be legal, it's a matter of "how", so that the people in the business can work in clean and secure circumstances.

Although it has to be said that statistically prostitution has declined greatly compared to a century ago, because there's no longer a taboo on (free) casual sex, and lots of people are doing it without money changing hands.

To all of you that think prostitution is a victimless crime. Don't be stupid! We're talking about women that have been pressured into thinking they aren't worth anything except for their ability to have sex. They are all someone's sister, mother, wife or daughter. Victimless? What about the families that are neglected because of this? That's child abuse in my opinion. or the spouses that are neglected. Neglect = Abuse. What about the "victimless" people that contract diseases? Legalize it? Are you kidding?

I've honestly never seen more cruel, abusive, unsympathetic and ignorant comments in my life. Is this really where men's heads are at? That seems sad.

Prostitution and Pornography are poisons in the collective mind of humanity. It makes us jaded, out of touch with reality and our emotions, it breeds deceit and dishonesty and it dehumanizes people. Why should that be legal? Besides by falling into the trapping of this mentality you are limiting your own emotional, spiritual and life growth and it's breading psychopaths. That's not victimless for either party.

Why are you assuming that women want to be in that role. If you did any research you'd discover that None (and I mean none) really want to be there and if you just put yourselves in their shoes you'd see really quick what an empty life you are condemning women to by believing that it's what they want. They don't!!!

Why would anyone need a prostitute? And if you do, wouldn't you think that you should make yourself a more attractive person to a mature partner? Don't you want a spiritual and mental connection with the one's you have sex with? If not, honestly from a mental health stand point you need help because you'll never have a rewarding relationship in you life. No good women would ever want to be with a man that sleeps with prostitutes.

To all of you that think prostitution is a victimless crime. Don't be stupid! We're talking about women that have been pressured into thinking they aren't worth anything except for their ability to have sex. They are all someone's sister, mother, blah...blah....blah...

*laughing*

Nice horse you got there. You should try taking it for a spin in the real world one of these days though...

FYI: using "all", "never" and "every" in anything that involves human perception will *always* make you wrong.

To all of you that think prostitution is a victimless crime. Don't be stupid! We're talking about women that have been pressured into thinking they aren't worth anything except for their ability to have sex. They are all someone's sister, mother, wife or daughter. Victimless? What about the families that are neglected because of this? That's child abuse in my opinion. or the spouses that are neglected. Neglect = Abuse. What about the "victimless" people that contract diseases? Legalize it? Are you kidding?

I've honestly never seen more cruel, abusive, unsympathetic and ignorant comments in my life. Is this really where men's heads are at? That seems sad.

Prostitution and Pornography are poisons in the collective mind of humanity. It makes us jaded, out of touch with reality and our emotions, it breeds deceit and dishonesty and it dehumanizes people. Why should that be legal? Besides by falling into the trapping of this mentality you are limiting your own emotional, spiritual and life growth and it's breading psychopaths. That's not victimless for either party.

Why are you assuming that women want to be in that role. If you did any research you'd discover that None (and I mean none) really want to be there and if you just put yourselves in their shoes you'd see really quick what an empty life you are condemning women to by believing that it's what they want. They don't!!!

Why would anyone need a prostitute? And if you do, wouldn't you think that you should make yourself a more attractive person to a mature partner? Don't you want a spiritual and mental connection with the one's you have sex with? If not, honestly from a mental health stand point you need help because you'll never have a rewarding relationship in you life. No good women would ever want to be with a man that sleeps with prostitutes.

Look. I'm no proponent of the act. I'm happily married to a beautiful woman and have a terrific sex life. Not everyone is so lucky, and I'd be the last person on Earth to judge anyone else based on soliciting a sex act.

You're way off base and way out of touch judging these people in such a fashion, and your post screams of Women's Lib. Sounds like you either work at a shelter for battered women or a social worker. See what I did there? I just judged you based on your actions (typing words is an action, just like hiring a hooker is an action).

As for your rant on pornography...I don't even know where to start. There's absolutely nothing wrong with masturbation, and every single person on the face of this planet does it or condemns themselves to a life of pent-up anguish and/or fear. It's perfectly natural.

I almost thought you were posting from Arizona until the hippie spiritualistic bullshit came forth. Now I think you're posting from a commune filled with angry women.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

Which, honestly, is another reason to legalize (and therefore regulate) it. If hookers worked on wage+tips (which, I understand, is how the "escort" industry works) and had basically the same healthcare and job codes as the rest of us, it should cut down on that shit.

Why would it? Sure there'd be more non-forced prostitutes, but that wouldn't stop someone from forcibly pimping a woman (if she didn't/couldn't go to the police when it was illegal, she wouldn't have much more recourse if it were legalized). After all, a pimp threatens to kill a woman if refused to comply or goes to the police, she's still in the same boat.

Prostitution is legal in the Neatherlands and there is still pimping (some people were convicted for human trafficing... it was easy to "hide" among all of the other prostitution).

Why would it? Sure there'd be more non-forced prostitutes, but that wouldn't stop someone from forcibly pimping a woman (if she didn't/couldn't go to the police when it was illegal, she wouldn't have much more recourse if it were legalized). After all, a pimp threatens to kill a woman if refused to comply or goes to the police, she's still in the same boat.

Prostitution is legal in the Neatherlands and there is still pimping (some people were convicted for human trafficing... it was easy to "hide" among all of the other prostitution).

For one thing, there would be less for pimps to do if prostitution were legal. Pimps protect prostitutes against physical violence and ensure that customers pay. If prostitution were legal, police would deter both physical violence against prostitutes and shortchanging. Regarding slave prostitutes, legalizing prostitution would drive business toward legitimate establishments. However, it probably wouldn't drive all slave prostitutes out of business. Nonetheless, legalizing prostitution would certainly not increase the amount of prostitution slavery.

Those happy-go-lucky pimps and prostitutes you see on Jerry Springer don't represent everyone in the sex trade business. Many prostitutes are physically and mentally abused by their pimps. Some are forced into the business or forced to stay in the business despite their own desires.

The violence within prostitution is caused by its illegality. Look at places where prostitution is legal. Sex workers can actually make use of the legal system when they have been harmed by their customers or coworkers. Just like with drugs, it is the fact that the activity is illegal that adds the element of danger, not the activity itself.

Victimless? What about the families that are neglected because of this? That's child abuse in my opinion. or the spouses that are neglected. Neglect = Abuse.

What makes you think that prostitutes are inherently neglectful? What makes it different from any other job, especially since a lot of them can even work less hours than normal, meaning more time to spend with family?

Why are you assuming that women want to be in that role. If you did any research you'd discover that None (and I mean none) really want to be there and if you just put yourselves in their shoes you'd see really quick what an empty life you are condemning women to by believing that it's what they want. They don't!!!

violence is NOT caused by "illegality". it happens independent of legal status.

in other news, i wonder when all these AG's are going get on their high horses and shut down the Yellow Pages for their "Escort" service sections. or going after the free indie newspapers that most college towns have for their classifieds ( "I do Greek" ) sections.

To all of you that think prostitution is a victimless crime. Don't be stupid! We're talking about women that have been pressured into thinking they aren't worth anything except for their ability to have sex. They are all someone's sister, mother, wife or daughter. Victimless? What about the families that are neglected because of this? That's child abuse in my opinion. or the spouses that are neglected. Neglect = Abuse. What about the "victimless" people that contract diseases? Legalize it? Are you kidding?

There is a very big difference between someone who chooses this profession and someone who does not. The illegality of prostitution only promotes the kind of abuse you talk about because the victims have little legal recourse or protection under law should something bad happen. As others have mentioned, legalizing and regulating prostitution will actually decrease said abuses.

arsorb wrote:

I've honestly never seen more cruel, abusive, unsympathetic and ignorant comments in my life. Is this really where men's heads are at? That seems sad.

Prostitution and Pornography are poisons in the collective mind of humanity. It makes us jaded, out of touch with reality and our emotions, it breeds deceit and dishonesty and it dehumanizes people. Why should that be legal? Besides by falling into the trapping of this mentality you are limiting your own emotional, spiritual and life growth and it's breading psychopaths. That's not victimless for either party.

What fantasy world are you living in? I hate to break it to you, but sex means different things to different people. What right do you have to impose your morales or lifestyle upon someone else? Stop putting sex on a pedestal. It's just another one of our natural biological processes. If you want to attach spirituality and morality to it, that's your prerogative, but that doesn't give you the right to pass judgment on anyone else.

arsorb wrote:

Why are you assuming that women want to be in that role. If you did any research you'd discover that None (and I mean none) really want to be there and if you just put yourselves in their shoes you'd see really quick what an empty life you are condemning women to by believing that it's what they want. They don't!!!

Stop putting words into my mouth. I never said such things. If women want to sell their bodies for sex, they should have the freedom to. What gives you the right to tell them they cannot?

arsorb wrote:

Why would anyone need a prostitute? And if you do, wouldn't you think that you should make yourself a more attractive person to a mature partner? Don't you want a spiritual and mental connection with the one's you have sex with? If not, honestly from a mental health stand point you need help because you'll never have a rewarding relationship in you life. No good women would ever want to be with a man that sleeps with prostitutes.

I know this may come as a surprise to you, but many people, both men AND women, desire sex without relationships. What gives you the right to deny them that? Sure, relationships may be more rewarding, but they are also tons more complicated. Some people don't need or want that complication.

Prostitution and Pornography are poisons in the collective mind of humanity. It makes us jaded, out of touch with reality and our emotions, it breeds deceit and dishonesty and it dehumanizes people. Why should that be legal?

Because I want to live in a country where I can make up my own mind and not have people like you legislating away freedom to make good or bad decisions on my own just because in your opinion it's the best way to live.

In the Netherlands - where prostitution is legal - there is still violence against prostitutes, there is still human trafficking, there is still child prostitution, and drugs are still a huge part of the problem. Violence against prostitutes is still rampant in places with legalized prostitution, and they don't have legal recourse because they'd have to register as a sex worker - which most women do not want to do!

In the Netherlands - where prostitution is legal - there is still violence against prostitutes, there is still human trafficking, there is still child prostitution, and drugs are still a huge part of the problem. Violence against prostitutes is still rampant in places with legalized prostitution, and they don't have legal recourse because they'd have to register as a sex worker - which most women do not want to do!

This article lays it out rather well, and it's shocking how uninformed the general public is.

Your argument is that women don't want to register as sex workers, ergo they have no legal recourse, ergo there is violence against prostitutes. Assuming this is true, the problem yet again is that there are laws restricting prostitution. The barrier to prostitute is too high if there is a black market. The solution is to lower that barrier: to loosen the laws restricting prostitution.