Government advice about being careful what you post on the web may have come just a little too late for Andrew Sachs’ granddaughter, Georgina Baillie – aka Voluptua, the goth vampire stripper. The same advice might also have been helpful to the pictures desk over at the Daily Mail, which along with Ms Baillie has been indulging …

Say it aint so?

WRONG! (in Eric Cartman voice)

Seems the Daily Wail should have researched the story a little better. I'm about as liberal minded as you can get but even I think videos portraying medical experiments and nun abuse are sick and wrong. So I wonder what all the people who complained to the BBC because the Wail told them too would think of it?

This whole sorry saga...

..makes me despair over the state of modern Britain. What a farce.

I would also like to recommend to the BBC that instead of spending time on 'inquiries', they should just rename 'Have Your Say' to 'People are Morons'. If they keep bowing down to that lot, it will be wall-to-wall Strictly Come Dancing and Antiques Roadshow before long.

"Bend over, you're about to be shafted"

A friend has worked with the Satanic Sluts on and off, although she mostly freelances as an exotic model. While "exotic model" probably seems like a euphemism for something seedier (and to be fair that's sometimes true), the term is mostly used by genuine models who mostly do the same kind of advertising work as more "mainstream" models. As for the Nazi connotations, if my friend's anything to go by then it's likely an (un)happy coincidence that the Sluts initials are SS. As for the kind of language on the website, it strikes me as appropriate for the bondage and flagellation crowd, and a bit of a reach to imply some kind of sinister political message is being imparted.

Oh well, as with the whole Ross/Brand phone prank and subsequent furore, I'm sure the journalistic muckrakers and mastubatory blogosphere can find new headlines by the usual fabrication and misinterpretation.

Bob vs. Russel vs. Satanic Sluts

I also agree with Bob Geldof on Russel Brand, but then again I also agree with Russel Brand on Bob Geldof...

As for Sachs granddaughter... I suppose I thread carefully enough when I say that this issue with mr.Brand and mr. Ross might not exactly hurt her career... or cause too much damage to her reputation (whatever that might have been prior to this incident).

Unemployed

Re: missing the point

"So what, she can get up to what she wants and shove it on a myspace page"

Except she wasn't just doing it on her myspace page. She was in the national media using what happened to gain publicity for herself. She specifically complained about the fact that they were 'humiliating a lovely old man who has never harmed anyone in his life' while she was doing the same by drawing attention to the fact that she's a 'glamour model' and listed 'pole dancing' as her favourite sport on her webpage.

Before she was even talking to the Sun, Sach's had already said that he didn't want such a big deal being made about it and she just helped to keep it going.

Abusive messages?

@ac er, no. I most certainly am NOT saying abusive messages about Miss Baillie are ok. Or at least not as a response to her sexuality.

If you have other issues with her, then express them as you see fit.

The piece began as a slightly amused take on how people on the internet have a tendency to re-invent themselves. The clue is in the sub-head that refers to high-speed airbrushing. Miss Baillie appears to be doing it. The Mail appears to be doing it. And the Sun...well maybe they are taking a stance that is ever-so-slightly inconsistent with the stance of their sister Paper in the Max Mosley case.

What are the political leanings of the Satanic Sluts? Haven't the faintest - but might ask them that next week.

Is their use of imagery just a bit risky? Well, take a look at their site: note the copy, backdrop, typology, use of the SS initials and one or two other elements. Then make your own mind up.

One problem, of course, is that as individuals we can be attracted to a style of imagery, irrespective of its content. In a sense, that is at the heart of many censorship debates: we might enjoy certain thoughts, images, concepts; but have no intention ever to act upon them.

The censors would see things differently.

Heart - because commenting on my own pieces takes me into realms of narcissism I would have preferred to avoid.

@Mark, ....contacted her instead of her grandfather.

Actually Mark, mr.Sachs is probably a bigger celebrity than she will ever be.

And I belive that they did indeed insult him (no matter how funny it was), the reference to his grand daughter was just in passing... the main part of the sketch was rather focused on mr.Sachs himself and his character Manuel (or was that Emanuel?)...

@AC

I know. And if they wanted to upbraid Andrew, talk to him about himself. He's a grown up. But don't try to bag him by pissing on his family.

If I didn't like JR I wouldn't phone his children to get at him. That's mean. It's getting at him through his children.

And this is what RB and JR have done with Andrew: got at him through his family.

OR they could have gotten gotherella herself and got her on the show. Her gramps may not like her talking about that work, but it's up to her as a grown up to accept or refuse. She can't refuse if they talk to her grandpa instead of her, though.

@AC 14:23

Totally agree.

There seems to be a bit of a "she is a goth so deserves it" attitude here, totally wrong. It doesn't matter what your sexuality there is no need for people to call your grandfather about it, then transmit it on the raidio.

Is it just me, or are people missing the point?

This isn't a 'she was wearing short skirt and asking for it' argument, this is an illustration of the tabloid press's double standards. Had Brand and Ross not made the call, Ms Baillie might have been the subject of an expose: 'Manuel's grand-daughter is sexy swinger!' sort of bollocks. No-one deserves to have their grandfather rung up and subjected to those idiots, but it's interesting to see the way the tabloids jumped.

I'm tempted to suggest that had Ms Baillie not had a well-loved grandad, the story would be 'Russel Brand's nights of love with bondage babe' or somethinge qually daft....

Irony can blow your foot off

RE: missing the point

"So what, she can get up to what she wants and shove it on a myspace page

The problem was that brand & ross decided to have a go at a well respected pensioner because he couldn't appear on the show, just because she's a little alternative doesn't excuse the initial abuse"

<rant>

You either haven't listened to the podcast or you didn't hear the same one I did, they didn't abuse him, they left some voice messages in which they got very giggly and stupid, then they rang again (big mistake on their part) and knob head Ross shouted out "he f*cked your granddaughter", then they hung up, then they rang again and in an extremely uncomfortable silly moment brand let slip the satanic slut members name.

Sach's complaint wasn't even the calls, it was that the BBC aired them when they asked and he said no. Then the papers started printing pictures and the granddaughter got involved.

Brand and Ross shouldn't have been suspended just because the media are sensationalising this whole thing, no matter how annoying people find them - and Brand shouldn't need to resign to try and save somebody elses skin either. At the end of the day, Sach's himself may have been offended, fine, and the producers were wrong in airing the skit after Sachs said no - but that is the producers fault, and the BBC should look at that problem, not the material itself.

At the end of the day, her alternative activities isn't a hobby, it's her job, she's posed for page 3 for gods sake, so how she can claim to be offended or say this has caused embarrassment is beyond me, the BBC should have some sort of protection for their employees when the complaining people are directly profiting from giving kiss and tell stories, and calling for the heads of the bbc to fire people.

She's getting royalties from the pics I'm assuming, and the storys the papers are buying from her, she's already said more in less than a week about her relationship with Brand than he's ever said about her, it wasn't even clear he'd slept with her from what he's said until she told the Sun. I find it hilarious that she seems more outraged than her grandfather - considering this all happened to him, but of course she's outraged - it means she gets to do something she couldn't do before, and that is get in the media spotlight and have her pictures posted on the front of the papers for a week, until the elections next week anyway. Then it will be naked pics of McCain and Palin, not her.

Bombs going off in India, armies killing people in Congo, earthquakes in Pakistan, US election hype, freaky cold-snap in UK, credit crunch - you would assume the papers would have better things to do than spend time and money reporting this shit.

And don't get me started on how the tories can call for a commons debate on something as trivial as this, yet seem to do fuck all when it comes to politicians with bribes, telecoms companies illegally wiretapping us as a nation, and our failing economy. How much tax payers money is being wasted on this media witch-hunt now? I want figures!!!

@ Fraser

"Totally agree.

There seems to be a bit of a "she is a goth so deserves it" attitude here, totally wrong. It doesn't matter what your sexuality there is no need for people to call your grandfather about it, then transmit it on the raidio."

No - it's a double standards thing... and I didn't realise that being goth was a sexuality these days. Most goths tend to be straight, gay or bi... I should know... I used to be one! ;)

And please all past and future commentards - he wasn't cold-called - he was rang for a pre-arranged interview, and wasn't available.

You can still join the SS?

@Aaron

"go check out their website. Their logo, a take on the SS 'lightning-bolt' symbol, quickly puts paid to this 'unhappy coincidence' notion."

That's stretching things to say it looks like the SS logo. There's three S's separated by other characters and they're not the same font as the SS symbol (which was a square ended rune - not sure if it was supposed to be a lightning bolt). Based on your criteria, the band Kiss *must* be raving Nazis, as they use the same squared off S characters as the SS in their logo and it's two of them in succession.

On a side note, a certain TV presenter caught up in this furore is known to frequent fetish clubs with his red haired wife. Wearing a mask admittedly, but it's still obvious who he is, and he shops at rubber outfit shop Breathless (formerly in Camden, now in Kings Cross). Note to moderatix (ooh, err) if you feel this paragraph is in any way actionable, then feel free to delete it. Not that you'd need my permission I suppose!

@Law

I totally agree there is a double standards thing going on here. I didn't mean to be vague about the whole goth/sexuallity thing (I used to be a goth myself - back in the 80s when the Mish and the Cult were goth, none of this Marylin Manson shite, anyway I digress) As I see it that there are some goths who are totally vanilla, but there are also some who use their vampy-gothness (vampy-goodness?) as an extention of sexuallity. I suspect that a fair amount of the double standards is coming from the "look at her - she's wearing provocitive clothing - she's a freak" therefore it's ok to plaster her image all over the place, with no regard for her or those round her. I hardly think a nice blonde pig tailed gingham dresses girlygirl would be in her position now.

nb: I use the word Goth as I understand it, there seems to be a lot of sub-genres these days...

Bad taste?

My opinion is that all prank phone calls are nearly as funny as a road accident, so I'll disqualify myself from judging whether it was funny or not.

Reading the transcript of the event (or as much of it as I could be bothered to, anyway), it seems to me that what was actually said wasn't much worse than Brand and Ross normally get up to.

The difference was that they weren't just pratting about on the air -- they were talking down the phone to someone (okay, answering machine, whatever). The difference is important: it's a hell of a lot more personal. When you hear an answering machine message, it's meant just for you.

Granted, the difference is a subtle one. I guess Ross & Grant didn't see it at the time. But when you walk the edge of comedy, I think you need to pay close attention to that sort of thing.

surely the bigger news strory

<b>"Ross& Brand so offensive that they put 28,998 people into a coma for a week"</b>

maybe it's just me who missed the story about that one, though it does explain why the traffic was so good last week!

or possibly 2 people listened to the show and complained re language, then a week later the sunday media run a story and the readers think" I don't like Brand, I shall complain about the wastrell" and then 1500 people complained, then the TV media pick it up cos they're bored, and then the rest think "I don't listen to late noght radio 2 it should be nice music, and anyways they've got wierd hair let complain"

I must read the wrong newspapers.

@ Solomon; @Dave Murray

Awww, Solomon - you've obviously led a sheltered life. Try typing 'nun' into the searchbox on www.youporn.com

And for a more humorous take, try this:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5MepS5X-AK4

Dave, don't you see the contradiction in boasting about your sexual liberality and proclaiming out-of-the-way fetishes are "sick and wrong"?

As to the brouhaha itself, there's good news and bad. The bad news is that Johnathon Ross hasn't been sacked. The good news is that Voluptua has had an unexpected career boost - and good luck to her, I say.

Dog eats dog in the self-referential world of celebretards: if the ghastly Ross gets his talkshow back, he'll probably invite Georgina on as his first guest. Then fuck her in the green room and leak the video to Max Clifford.

As stockmarkets burn, pensions evaporate and jobs vanish, isn't it heartening to have these jolly japes to distract us all?

Oooooohhh, now I geddit!

here we go again

Most people are getting over the drama of all this now, so the media are suddenly realising they need a new twist to the story.... behold, the beginning of the media backlash on the granddaughter, you know, the one who has nothing on our very own moderatrix:

@ Mark - I'm sure Paris' parent's already know quite enough about their daughter, without me letting them in a few things! :)

@ Fraser - One thing I loved about being a goth was how everybody just got along. Plus in alot of the clubs I hung around in you could just walk down a hall and be jumped on by hot ladies in black, or see 2 ladies (ladies??) gettin it on. Ahhh... I miss my goth days. In my phase, it was a mix of vampire goth, then mosher goth, then I gave up when 12 year olds knew more new bands than me... still, never got the whole dominatrix thing, but I'm happy for others to be happy with it themselves! :)

RE: RE: missing the point By AC

Sir/Madam,

I salute you... My sentiments exactly. FFS Yesterdays front page on news.bbc.co.uk was all bransrossgate affair, when thousands have been displaced and massacres are occurring in DR Congo. I fed up too my back teeth with the growing celebutard news reporting (and that includes the celebutards in the American election).

@ Mark

Should we be surprised?

So the british press are scum who will take any half story and twist it any way they can in order to sell their rags, is anyone really surprised? It seems this time they thought they could sell more my making ms B the victim and going after the big names of Brand and Ross, if the facts were slightly different they might have twisted it the other way.

The british papers are run by a bunch of lowlife fuckwits and anyone who buys their rags is only encouraging them.

The BBC's apologists go to lower depths....

This pillock (and those argreeing with him) trying to blacken the name of the victim in this to try to paint the BBC in a better light.

Wonder what you'd have done if say, ITV had done the same against a gay ? A lesbian ? An islamic fanatic ?

Granted the BBC backroom nose-in-troughs wouldn't have allowed any of THEM to be abused - won't ever allow themselves to be the victim after all ! But the victim was a decent feller who never attacked anyone or wanted it to go too far in "punishment"

classic catch 22

Love it all really. Little Britain has spent several years 'parodying' the British public as a mixture of doll scum, racist, fascist homophobic people in some of the most extreme ways ever portrayed on television, but it is OK because one of the is 'a gay' and everyone bangs them a load of awards.

Alf Garnet reincarnated AKA Pub Landlord is onto something like the 4th season of his mock extremist chat show and that's OK.

What exactly is not ok? I refer to my original posting on the Little Big Planet story which outlines these exact double standards, of which a large majority of the press then also commented on such as my statement about how it is now 'OK' to make fun of the Queen to her face, something that no less than 30 years ago would have found you hanged.