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My friend is going around to all the area TRU's looking for the new Springer figure to complete his Movie cast, grumbling about it not being a triplechanger all the way, and I asked him why he doesn't get Defender. He's seen and "played with" mine a bunch and he says it's exactly what he wants but he doesn't want to spent the money and he is, in his own words, "settling for Hasbro's crap." It got me thinking, Defender is a Deluxe. A beefy one but still just a Deluxe. Minus the diecast, it's something Hasbro could easily produce and in significantly more quantity than Fansproject can. The fact is, it would cost more to design and use more plastic than the one they actually made. So I had the thought that what if they put that much work and material into it and just made the price point higher? Like $40-$50 for a more complicated Deluxe?

I'm not saying an "adult collector line" because we all know those always fail here in the States but if Takara can do Kiss Players and Alternity and popsicles and baseball caps, why not a Classics Collectors line? Even repaints from a line like that would still sell and fill holes. A Springer with a planned remold head and chest piece that also makes Sandstorm? A similar Blitzwing that with a palette swap can be Flywheels? If they can get Banzai-Tron out of a Seeker that becomes a car, they can do a hell of a lot more that slap a new head on a chicken legged Bayformer and call it Springer.

I see your point. First off, the Tomahawk mold is barely a Bayformer. If he'd been in red and white, classics Blades would have been on the tip of everyones tongue. He's far closer to the classics-look than he is to the movie-look.Repainting him into Springer is a 'take it or leave it' thing. There are already two other Springers out there and at least this one looks like Springer.

Secondly, a 3rd party toy is not a Transformer, it just looks like one. It continues to amaze me that people will pay 100$ for something with inferior plastic which looks slightly more like something would produce in 1986 than 2012.

The question you raise in the topic title is different from the one you eventually ask, though. People already pay more for a 3rd party PPOOBDUBXUIDS-1 NERDRAGE, so that answer for some is 'YES'. At the end of the post you ask if we'd pay more for a Hasbro figure with higher quality and compare it to a 3rd party figure.

In short- NO. The reasons for higher prices on 3rd party stuffs aren't directly related to the quality of the pastic and design alone. Hasbro should be able to deal with this for FAR less money.

RhA wrote:I see your point. First off, the Tomahawk mold is barely a Bayformer. If he'd been in red and white, classics Blades would have been on the tip of everyones tongue. He's far closer to the classics-look than he is to the movie-look.Repainting him into Springer is a 'take it or leave it' thing. There are already two other Springers out there and at least this one looks like Springer.

Secondly, a 3rd party toy is not a Transformer, it just looks like one. It continues to amaze me that people will pay 100$ for something with inferior plastic which looks slightly more like something would produce in 1986 than 2012.

The question you raise in the topic title is different from the one you eventually ask, though. People already pay more for a 3rd party PPOOBDUBXUIDS-1 NERDRAGE, so that answer for some is 'YES'. At the end of the post you ask if we'd pay more for a Hasbro figure with higher quality and compare it to a 3rd party figure.

In short- NO. The reasons for higher prices on 3rd party stuffs aren't directly related to the quality of the pastic and design alone. Hasbro should be able to deal with this for FAR less money.

I actually like the Tomahawk mold and I actually think Blades would've been a better fit than Springer. The "Bayformer" part wasn't meant derisively, but descriptively and mainly about those legs. The take it or leave it part is the main point I was making. Like I said, TakTom makes far smaller, more intricate, and more niche market things all the time. And this was not a 3rd party question. While I don't see the manufacturer issue as black and white as some do, I would rather get my Transformers from HasTak then from another company and I used FP as an example because 1) relevance to the situation and 2) they're the best 3rd party company in regards to quality and fan appreciation. The point was higher engineering and more material would mean higher costs than the already ridiculous retail that TF's seem to have these days.

The question is the one in the title, the reason I ask is what my friend said and his general situation.

Unless it's a figure I really, REALLY want, my answer would be a loud "NO" if it's from Hasbro. A 50$ deluxe figure that is all plastic with poor paint aps? HELL NO.

Sure, I bought Delicate Warrior and Hegemon, both at around 130-140$ each if I count shipping. These two are the only 3rd party figures I own. It was the only way for me to have a cartoon accurate Arcee and Megatron.

I also have Alternity Starscream, Optimus Prime, and Bumblebee. They are 50-60$ deluxes that I cared to own because I care about these characters. They also felt very "premium" with all that diecast and rubber tires. Yes, rubber tires have been a luxury feature for a while now.

If Takara release Luxury Deluxes with die cast, rubber tires, superior paint aps, clear plastics where it should go like in the headlights,and superior engeneering like they did with Alternity... would I buy them for a 50-60$ price tag? HELL YES, but only for the characters I really care about.

I think I get what you mean but maybe you should re-word the "3rd Party" part of the title.

Now back to the topic.

A few of us may be willing to drop a few more for a high quality Hasbro release but given all the bellyaching (noisy minority?) on the $ 99.00 SRP for Hasbro MP-10 Optimus Prime makes me wonder whether its from a noisy minority at all.

Add that to the ambulance chasers in the American market that you get stripped down releases of the now defunct TFC collection ( put an age appropriate warning on a collectible is no longer enough because of the lack of a sense of personal responsibility by consumers who will most likely sue the pants off Hasbro).

Using FP as a standard......well you needn't look further, Tomy's been doing that in a sort of way with their Encore series (die-cast parts on the 1st and 2nd season figures) and of course Masterpiece. Though with regards to Masterpiece, given that its been designed for adults, I wonder why the domestic release Grimlock's teeth had to be "re-adjusted".......are adults that "stupid"?

In the end, this might be just a pipe dream.........a lot of TFC are shrinking due to a lot of factors. Asking for a high end domestic release might be too much to ask from Hasbro.

Since I already shell out big bucks for 3rd party figures, sure I'd buy a similar line from Hasbro.

Never got into Alternity because of the character choice. The Seekers? Megatron and Prime? I'd want to integrate this into my Classics collection! BB and Cliff were tempting, but I didn't like the look. The new Banzitron is tempting too, but I have no connection with him. But if they had done this with the right characters - Runabout and Runamuck, Trailbreaker, Skids ... Arcee! - then I'd have been all over it. Sure, they aren't the most popular characters, but they fill that hole in my collection and would likely never be bumped out by a newer figure in a regular line.

The other collector oriented line is the MP line and I buy those, but it'd be more of a sell at the deluxe size. And I mean the OLD deluxe size.

Short answer; yes. I would pay for a collector-quality line of figures that would fit well with my classics line. However I would want two things from Hasbro. The first would be that a Hasbro figure that's comparable to a FansProject figure be cheaper by at least 25% because this is Hasbro and they have the facilities needed to make them more numerable and cheaper. The second would be that a collector-quality figure would have to knock me on my butt with how awesome it is. Many 3rd Party Companies continue to impress me with their figures. I'm sure Hasbro has the ability to surpass them but is constantly limited by budget and applicable laws.

I think it might be a good idea, to listen to fans and produce a limited amount at a higher price, just for fans. But this kinda stuff is better handled by Takara. As you said, I don't imagine Kiss Player appealing to Kids.

The MP line is essentially the best of the best (even better than the third party figures) in my opinion, and I'm talking Takara's MP line, NOT Hasbro's.

What Takara have been doing since MP-10 is just amazing. They're making these figures perfect down to the slightest details in both modes with fully accurate colors, generous paint apps and transformations as simple or as complex as required to get perfect results in both modes. I've yet to see a single third party do that with any figure, and I own several.

Third parties are doing a decent job of filling holes, but if Takara ever decides to take on doing MP combiners, I expect the days of third party success will be numbered because right now, Takara is making better transforming toys that do a heck of a lot more than just homage G1 characters, they ARE the G1 characters. When I look up at my shelf and see MP-10 standing there I don't think to myself "There's one of my Optimus Primes", I think "There IS Optimus Prime!" None of the other lines, be they from Hasbro, Takara or toys from third parties make me feel that way (though Hegemon is pretty close, I'll admit ).

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come.

And you will know my name is MEGATRON when I lay my vengeance upon you!

Of course YES if Hasbro can make one like that, AND if we can ever find it in retail stores and even in our respect country region. Talking about Transformers, Hasbro is still the go to guy and I'm still loyal to them (I don't even give that much loyalty to Takara). But! But, wasn't Hasbro plan on giving us Generations Frenzy and Rumble? Seeing one of them in packaging and I want them badly and where are they now? I don't want to get 3rd party stuffs for these two guys and I was actually extremely lucky to get the only-if-I-have-no-choice-from-Hasbro-then-I-choose-Takara United Frenzy/Rumble in a reasonable price. Then ignoring all the recent Prime line chaos that we all know what happened. Springer is the same thing. I've been waiting the rightful one for long (meaning rightful, I mean not just the head). Hasbro did have toys for him but none of them are right. I don't even like the Tomahawk mold. I've been waiting long enough and really had to choose FP Defender. And I'm very happy with this FP Defender with an Autobot sticker on his chest.

xyl360 wrote:The MP line is essentially the best of the best (even better than the third party figures) in my opinion, and I'm talking Takara's MP line, NOT Hasbro's.

What Takara have been doing since MP-10 is just amazing. They're making these figures perfect down to the slightest details in both modes with fully accurate colors, generous paint apps and transformations as simple or as complex as required to get perfect results in both modes. I've yet to see a single third party do that with any figure, and I own several.

Third parties are doing a decent job of filling holes, but if Takara ever decides to take on doing MP combiners, I expect the days of third party success will be numbered because right now, Takara is making better transforming toys that do a heck of a lot more than just homage G1 characters, they ARE the G1 characters. When I look up at my shelf and see MP-10 standing there I don't think to myself "There's one of my Optimus Primes", I think "There IS Optimus Prime!" None of the other lines, be they from Hasbro, Takara or toys from third parties make me feel that way (though Hegemon is pretty close, I'll admit ).

I gotta agree with this. And it's weird for me considering right before the outbreak of Takara's new MP line-up they have going on, I was becoming more of a "third-party" fan. But then Takara busted out with this MP awesomeness and put faith back in me. Looks to me as thought they decided to fight fire with fire. And if they do indeed take on the more complicated combiners and triple changers (or even, high hopes here, a Six Shot), then the game changes dastrically.Hasbro, in my opinion, will just be Hasbro, catering to the rising number of kids growing up in the good ol' U.S. of A. and every once in the while throwing a bone to us adult collectors. As far as the "other guys"- I'm still leaning on them to produce what Hasbro doesn't. I'm sure they will deliver before Hasbro does.

xyl360 wrote:The MP line is essentially the best of the best (even better than the third party figures) in my opinion, and I'm talking Takara's MP line, NOT Hasbro's.

What Takara have been doing since MP-10 is just amazing. They're making these figures perfect down to the slightest details in both modes with fully accurate colors, generous paint apps and transformations as simple or as complex as required to get perfect results in both modes. I've yet to see a single third party do that with any figure, and I own several.

Third parties are doing a decent job of filling holes, but if Takara ever decides to take on doing MP combiners, I expect the days of third party success will be numbered because right now, Takara is making better transforming toys that do a heck of a lot more than just homage G1 characters, they ARE the G1 characters. When I look up at my shelf and see MP-10 standing there I don't think to myself "There's one of my Optimus Primes", I think "There IS Optimus Prime!" None of the other lines, be they from Hasbro, Takara or toys from third parties make me feel that way (though Hegemon is pretty close, I'll admit ).

I gotta agree with this. And it's weird for me considering right before the outbreak of Takara's new MP line-up they have going on, I was becoming more of a "third-party" fan. But then Takara busted out with this MP awesomeness and put faith back in me. Looks to me as thought they decided to fight fire with fire. And if they do indeed take on the more complicated combiners and triple changers (or even, high hopes here, a Six Shot), then the game changes dastrically.Hasbro, in my opinion, will just be Hasbro, catering to the rising number of kids growing up in the good ol' U.S. of A. and every once in the while throwing a bone to us adult collectors. As far as the "other guys"- I'm still leaning on them to produce what Hasbro doesn't. I'm sure they will deliver before Hasbro does.

Yep, same here. I had been buying more and more third party stuff, then the new MP's started coming out (starting with MP-10) and I saw what Takara were up to. Soundwave, his cassettes, Sideswipe and Red Alert all look perfect. Takara is definitely killing it right now with regards to giving us what we G1 fans really want: truly accurate representations of the characters we fell in love with on the screen as kids.

It's not like Classics etc. which gives us (sometimes) more accurate looks, adding in modern alt modes and improved articulation. It's a line dedicated to "getting it right", and by right, I mean frickin' perfect. I honestly never thought I'd see the day when we'd get Transformers this good, especially not from Hasbro or Takara. Heck, I didn't even think that what they did with MP-10 was possible at all. I always thought there was some room for improvement on the MP-01 mold, but the drastic improvements they made on the design for an MP Prime were staggering.

I hope you're right and we do see some MP triple changers (and yes, even Sixshot), but I guess only time will tell. I won't say it's impossible after what I've seen them do lately. Even the cassettes look perfect, and that's tought to do on that scale.

I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I am that which is, which was, and is yet to come.

And you will know my name is MEGATRON when I lay my vengeance upon you!

I'm never all that concerned about the copyrighted logo on the box. I want good plastic representations of the characters I grew up reading about and watching on TV*. If they're from Hasbro, I'm fine with that. Better if a larger company makes things and they're more widely available and at a lower cost. Have passed on 3rd Party stuff before that's just been out of the price range for what I'd pay, just as I've passed on cheap official Transformers because they've not been what I've wanted.

Of course, this doesn't mean I'm against new characters. I like variety and shows like Beast Wars and Prime have given us some quite enjoyable new bots, as well as good takes on older ones. Prime Soundwave isn't really "my Soundwave" but he's nice and creepy as a bad guy.

assembling a Neo-G1/TF:TM cast. Please PM if you have (or know of) the following at a reasonable price: Classics or Henkei Astrotrain, Sunstreaker, Sideswipe, or 3rd Party iGear Ratchet and Ironhide. Also looking for Universe Repugnus and Overbite, Frostbite and Longhorn and any Webdiver toys.