A level 90 killing a level 1 is probably overkill, but changing the system to anything else just begs the question of where you draw the line. Like I asked before, is 1 level difference too much? 5, 10, 15...? Or if someone of equal level kills you repeatedly for hours because they have arena gear, do you then have to add in item level restrictions as well?

Weird scaling esp at maximum level makes it virtually impossible to draw a line.
No matter where you draw it, you would essentially just exchange the victims for another group.

EG: make "grey" level players unattackable -> green level players become the target of choice and the whine continues.

So basically it's just one thing you can do and tell others to do:

READ THE F***** MANUAL before creating a character. I think Blizzard gives ample of warnings and information about PvP realms on their website. Maybe they should implement a warning screen in the game as well, informing non website readers about what they sign up for. Make it so it only appears for the first character of an account that is created on a PvP realm.

An easy solution to ganking and griefing would be to create a system of diminishing returns against killing the same player over and over.

As I see it, it could work two ways:

Give a buff to the victim that increases their damage done against THAT specific ganker, stacking up to 5 times, if they have been killed by them and are at least 10 or more levels below their level. This in effect allows low level players to get some form of even playing field to a slight degree, even if it isnt ideal.

OR

You make a debuff on the griefer that reduces the damage they do to a particular player to zero after a certain amount of repeated kills. similar to the buff method above but in reverse.

You cannot outright remove ganking, but you can punish it to some degree at least in PvP. I never wanted to remove ganking altogether at all, but I never liked having such an imbalanced playing field when it comes to level differences, especially since CRZ is staying (and those who think otherwise are delusional). I think Blizzard kinda needs to finally step up and work on something to reduce the issue, because sweeping the complaints and arguments about the issue under the rug isn't going to work much longer: That rug is a mountain at this point.

And what if my main is the level 30 that has been repeatedly killed by the level 90? What do I do then? What if my character is in one of those all so common guilds that have 500 members where only 10 people are ever online? What should I do if I get my main and the player that has repeatedly been ganking me decides he does not want to fight me and flies away into another CRZ? Or he just sits there on his flying mount, out of reach, knowing there is nothing I can do to him?

Have you not noticed people have been following through with those threats for the past two years?

You should ask on trade chat, log a character in trade and talk there, if you're on a PvP server chances are 9/10 someone will come and help

People are always quitting, Over the last two years there was a bit more of a sub drop as content got stale for some people, also alot of people who quit had also been playing for 6-7 years, it's called getting burnt out, and then subs went up again, so it's pointless saying that about this issue, because at the end of it all, everyone had a choice, nomatter what you chose, you still chose it, You let this happen, that's all it comes down too

Originally Posted by Tony Stark

They say that the best weapon is the one you never have to fire. I respectfully disagree. I prefer the weapon you only have to fire once. That's how Dad did it, that's how America does it, and it's worked out pretty well so far. I present to you the newest in Stark Industries' Freedom line. Find an excuse to let one of these off the chain, and I personally guarantee, the bad guys won't even wanna come out of their caves. Ladies and gentlemen, for your consideration... the Jericho.

this was along the lines of the point i was making earlier. whether ganking and policy are right or wrong is pretty much irrelevant. the question is are there enough people that like being on the receiving end of that stuff to sustain populations? i doubt it. many pvp servers were in dire straights before crz. crz is just a bandaid. when the pops get low again blizz will merge even more servers into each crz, and repeat until every pvp server is sharing a single crz pool. then they have nowhere left to go

Populations aren't dropping anywhere close to as precipitously as you're claiming. And "OMG WoW is dying" has been shouted from the rooftops for years, yet it keeps on being the most successful MMO in the genre. The latest data I've seen for subs still had WoW at over 10 million. They aren't merging servers, at all; CRZ isn't meant to do that. It changes the player density in the zones, since players tend to focus on the newer content.

Originally Posted by Pann

And what if my main is the level 30 that has been repeatedly killed by the level 90? What do I do then? What if my character is in one of those all so common guilds that have 500 members where only 10 people are ever online? What should I do if I get my main and the player that has repeatedly been ganking me decides he does not want to fight me and flies away into another CRZ? Or he just sits there on his flying mount, out of reach, knowing there is nothing I can do to him?

You deal with it.

Nobody's arguing that you have to enjoy that kind of experience. Plenty of people don't. That's why PvE servers remain popular to this day. It isn't an attack against PvP servers, though. It's just a statement that you don't like them.

Have you not noticed people have been following through with those threats for the past two years?

Not particularly. Subs were about 11.5 million at the start of 2011, and the most recent data stated that we were still over 10 million today. There was a dip in Cata, but they came back (for the most part) for MoP. Have we likely seen another dip? Sure. Populations always ease off after an expansion's release. Are WoW's population numbers anywhere close to the danger zone? Not even remotely. They could lose 90% of their population and still be a success. At the current rate of decay, that'd happen somewhere around 2022.

Have you not noticed people have been following through with those threats for the past two years?

Making a pretty big leap with that.

Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before... He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. -Kurt Vonnegut, "Cat's Cradle"

Populations aren't dropping anywhere close to as precipitously as you're claiming. And "OMG WoW is dying" has been shouted from the rooftops for years, yet it keeps on being the most successful MMO in the genre. The latest data I've seen for subs still had WoW at over 10 million. They aren't merging servers, at all; CRZ isn't meant to do that. It changes the player density in the zones, since players tend to focus on the newer content.

im not claiming that wow is dying, or any such thing. im claiming that pvp realms in particular have taken big losses in the past, and that i think they will again. and i believe the cause will be people that dont, wont, or cant figure out when enough is enough.

i understand that it's not a realm merge. they did all of this to avoid merging realms. but for the purpose of any crz they are essentially merged. you have said earlier in the thread that this was done by using server groups, similar to how bg groupings used to be, if i was understanding you correctly.

im not claiming that wow is dying, or any such thing. im claiming that pvp realms in particular have taken big losses in the past, and that i think they will again. and i believe the cause will be people that dont, wont, or cant figure out when enough is enough.

I haven't seen any evidence that PvP servers are taking bigger losses, on average, than PvE servers. They've always been wildly popular, and the no-holds-barred model was what the community asked for, back in the day.

i understand that it's not a realm merge. they did all of this to avoid merging realms. but for the purpose of any crz they are essentially merged. you have said earlier in the thread that this was done by using server groups, similar to how bg groupings used to be, if i was understanding you correctly.

It has nothing to do with server populations. It has to do with player density per zone. Server merges can't fix that issue, since all that does is change it from an issue with the old world being too barren, to the Pandaria zones being way overcrowded.

The old BG groupings had even less to do with all this, since those were just for architectural reasons in the server hardware layouts, so far as I know.

I haven't seen any evidence that PvP servers are taking bigger losses, on average, than PvE servers. They've always been wildly popular, and the no-holds-barred model was what the community asked for, back in the day.

/shrug

i guess time will tell. im not really advocating changes or not. im saying that i think rampant camping to the point where one cant level or leveling is such an ordeal that none will attempt it will eventually take its toll. there is a difference between some excitement at the prospect of sudden death and the guarantee of helplessness unending

It has nothing to do with server populations. It has to do with player density per zone. Server merges can't fix that issue, since all that does is change it from an issue with the old world being too barren, to the Pandaria zones being way overcrowded.

The old BG groupings had even less to do with all this, since those were just for architectural reasons in the server hardware layouts, so far as I know.