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To be clear, I reposted Lorenzo's statement for information because so many people are opining on how he has handled the case; I was not meaning to imply support one way or the other in this case. Indeed I do have an opinion, but it is irrelevant (as are most people's, to be frank).

Personally I'm a little disappointed at the lack of confidence that some parts of the community have in the people and processes of the WCA. It was made clear by the WDC that this investigation would be reopened if additional evidence were presented. We also have processes of appeal, the oversight of the Ethics Committee if the WDC falls short, and indeed of the Board itself. All of this organisation and process exists for the purpose of ensuring fair outcomes, and we should have confidence that they can and will achieve that, and let them get on with their jobs.

I like how the OP straight up ignored this fact. You must agree that this is very suspicious and for sure something went wrong at those competitions. Not a single delegate would allow the same person to judge you over and over again. For the same reason PSS (Polish Speedcubing "Association") required judges to pick random competitors and disallowed judging the same person a few times in a row some time ago after Zalewski incident.

If the decision was up to me, I would DNF your attempts anyway just because there was possibility that you cheated.

Member

First I'd like to start by saying I really like Fábio de’Rose for the funny, helpful and smart person he is. He stood at my parents for a competition, I left him alone at my place during another (while I was busy) and we always kept a friendly relationship. Hopefully, this shows how much I used trust him. I’m a little disappointed at him because of what I think he did during these incidents and it’s quite painful to think of this again, since I was ready to let this go, but I think he’s misleading a few people here. There is a lot of information on this thread, I’ll just point those I know or I think that are lies.

The ban was posted on nov/20th. On the same day, he said to me he was looking for a new job. The day before, he had plenty of time to do a lot of posts/reply on reddit, 13 posts, if you count from midnight to 11:59 p.m.

Also, on the same day the announcement was made, he posted/replied 21 times during all the day long. So, I'm finding hard to agree that he was in such a hurry working and studying that he did not have 15 min to record the video then for WDC. It was not a weekend.

I’m posting about Reddit here because he blocked me on Facebook and WhatsApp days after the ban.

About what you said regarding the top cubers, I believe Sebastiano answered in a decent way, therefore I'm leaving it.

About the chair blocking the way in. It was there, I saw it (and at least 3 other competitors). As you can see, I was there too during his first attempt. I left the room since I was organizing stuff and I spent over 40 min on a total DNF. About 15 or 20 min later, I decided to check on him. The chair was clearly blocking the way in and it was not there when I left. I could move it out, but I thought this would make some noise, so I let it be. This chair also kept the guy who was recording stuff during Brasileiro2018 from going in. The chair was clearly put there by someone who did not wanted to let people in.

I was also at Mineirim, where he got his 28+ (later DNFed) solve. I remember him coughing but it was really occasional. A healthy person could cough like that, I don’t think I'd be affected by it if it were with me. There’s another thing I remember. We were all ready for MBLD, he stood and said “I need to go to the toilet”. The delegate said “can’t it wait? We’re about to start here”. Fabio replied “I can’t” and he left the area. The delegate wanted to wait for him to start, since the cubes were already scrambled. We waited him for about 8 min when I said to the delegate “Diego Meneghetti and me are using the full hour, if we don’t start without him, this will disturb the schedule”. We started, so I’m not sure when he returned. That's the only thing I remember regarding possible illness there.

About the reconstruction of his 28+, it was made just after the solve, not a couple of days after. Diego asked the delegate for the scramble and presented Fabio with it and asked how he did it. He reconstructed it, perfectly, I was there. He was calm and steady during it. His description included just regular comms with simple setups, not an R2 setup for 3 comms as claimed here (isn't it strange how could he reconstruct a R2 if it were a misscramble?). He posted another reconstruction on Facebook and then, after the video, he started claiming misscramble.

About Diego’s behavior. He was always a loyal competitor and I don’t think he would try to attack Fábio just because Fábio was a threat to him. Before that, Israel Fraga got a 28 and Diego did not make a thing. Israel even beat him on a competition. I believe Israel is more a threat to Diego then Fábio is, so it would make no sense to attack Fábio and let Israel be. Diego has a past of fighting against cheaters, like a guy who just inverted an FMC scramble and added a few redundant moves to cover it up. At the time, they both got a 29 single SAR. Diego asked to see it and warned the delegate about the inverse scramble thing. This was before the RUF addition.

About the judge, I trust the guy. He might be a little inattentive, and he definitely can’t tell the difference between a 3style solve on a 5x5 a yau5 solve, but I don’t think he can take part on any cheating. I believe he is just another victim here, since people are questioning whether he helped a competitor to cheat or not.

I was also at the South American championship. I did not see him entering, but I did not talk to him there. Since he blocked me everywhere he could, I decided to respect his decision, perhaps he got upset by how I was gathering information about the incidents so I could choose a side here, instead of trusting a friend just because of the friendship. What I know is that a few people really made he feel home there.

And finally, I was the first person to suspect Fábio’s acts. On Feb/2017, we competed together for the first time and I was a little afraid of him, that’s why I remember him. I was there trying to get podium on 3BLD (after driving 750 km) and he used to post solves in around 1 min on Facebook. He DNFed there with 7 and 8 minutes, he did not even try the third one. I thought “how can someone around 1 min get a 7 min DNF?”. He continued to get DNFs in competitions (11 in a row) and he was posting sub1 videos on Facebook. His first official success was a sub3 after a lot of sub1 videos. This is the only thing I have no proof. He deleted all messages of the Facebook group in which he posted such times (I really would like to see again some videos from early 2017). At the time, by July/2017, I spoke both to Diego Meneghetti and Israel Fraga I thought Fábio faked videos for Facebook and possibly for YouTube. They both defended Fábio saying they believed him, despite neither of them had competed with him back then. Diego and Israel used to believe Fábio mostly because of his questions about BLD and how helpful he was for the new BLDers. After he got his first success, I decided to trust on Diego's and Israel's analysis. If these 2 top BLDers believed, why shouldn’t I? I even said this to Fabio: “I thought you were fake, but now I believe you” during Silent Swap 2017. Looking back now, I wish I kept suspecting, at least I’d have stayed with him and the judge at the room when he got the 9 min success.

I do have 1 thing that show we can suspect his posts on internet. On Jan/30th/2017, he posted a 15,63 3x3 avg. 12 days later, he got a 36,92 official avg. Even Feliks used to fake some solves on the internet (like starting with a cross already done) to impress fellows, but he was like 12 years old or so. I know other competitors who used to fake solves and became good at it anyway (like Antônio), but Fábio was already over 30 years old when he started competing, no need to impress people to try to look good, I think.

About his videos on YouTube, I just have one thing to say. When we had the Jake Klassen incident, Fábio said on our WhatsApp group that Jake should record “long sessions of solves as proof”, Fabio even said he spoke that to Jake himself. Fábio should do as he said and record long sessions of solves, but his channel just have 1 solve each video.

There are some other strange things here that I did not include (like he asking around for a cube before getting the 9 min success. Why did he need a 5x5? Doesn’t he already had one or how did he practice?), but I included mostly things I have proof of.

I think the original poster (and others) has 2 ways here: believe there’s some sort of conspiracy against Fábio de’Rose including delegates, (former?) friends, fellow competitors, WDC or believe the he might be mislead by a competitor accused of something and that is telling lies to convince people about a conspiracy.

It looks like he told you a few lies to convince you (lack of time, position of the chair, time of reconstruction for a start). So, shall we agree that he could be misleading you?

I think the best closure here would be he saying "OK guys, I did something wrong and I feel deeply sorry". He could inform WCA about how he did it so we could improve competitions all over the world, the ban would be suspended, we'd all accept him back with open arms and he could get good results with his own efforts only right away. Of course some things would change, like we would look him closer, but that's a small price to pay, I'm sure he enjoy cubing.

Member

I’d like to reiterate my and your right to post opinions in this thread backed by evidence, whether it be right or wrong. I however, believe I am in the right here.

First of all, this is 100 percent not a conspiracy and I am trying not to get people to believe in a conspiracy theory, I’m pointing out the ways the WDC handled the investigation and the community in your country before and after.

In fact, if you believe this is a conspiracy, take yourself over to reddit yourself and ask people about the Fabio situation. People have been shocked and confused and angry, always saying and describing the ban as a witch-hunt and a completely unfair punishment. I posted this on reddit, and even though I posted it at the wrong time of day. I still got support and even Reddit Gold. People believe in Fabio, not just me as you seem to word it. (Apologies if I misunderstood.)

Quick Edit: The reddit comment was not necessarily evidence towards my case, it was just showing the general support of the subreddit, even though experience may be low.

Also, yes, I am a bit biased here, but I didn’t really want to email a WDC member with a list of questions and interrupt any type of investigation they may be conducting out of general kindness.

Also, I should also mention Fabio is starting to record his sessions as proof (for multi however) and I have encouraged him myself to start these for bigblinds and blind and possibly livestream his practice sessions.

On me suspecting Diego. You basically confirmed what I said earlier. You say above that Diego has gone out to cheaters in the past. I get that someone else beat him, but what if he thought Fabio cheated, and decided to take action? Ever since, As he told me during his account, Diego seemed to have a spite against him. As you said, this may not be true, but once again, I trust him.

I understand that there was one delegate at the competition. Fabio claims he received a reconstruction request 2 days after the comp, and you claim it was just after, there is definitely a collision of thoughts in this story and I hope that you both can clear up discrepancies.

However, I do believe you missed the full point of the rant, which was how the WDC handled the investigation of the case, which was in a guilty until proven innocent case, biased, and was banned only on speculation without evidence of any cheating.

Like Mike and others said, I’m trying to point out that the WDC may be setting a dangerous precedent here for the future of scrutinizing new competitors for unexpected solves. I agree that the WDC should investigate suspicious results, but in an unbiased and innocent until proven guilt way. This was the main point of the rant.

I may be right, I may be wrong about Fabio. I just wanted to get this off my chest to a speedcubing platform where I can address my own opinions on things that matter to me.

To prevent myself from imploding, I will attempt to refrain from responding until the final decision is posted. Worst case, he waits out the ban and comes back a better and more skilled competitor. Also, I’m getting close to requesting a lock as I am sure this post has 100 percent served it’s purpose, but I will leave it open until the decision is made.

Edit:

I like how the OP straight up ignored this fact. You must agree that this is very suspicious and for sure something went wrong at those competitions. Not a single delegate would allow the same person to judge you over and over again. For the same reason PSS (Polish Speedcubing "Association") required judges to pick random competitors and disallowed judging the same person a few times in a row some time ago after Zalewski incident.

If the decision was up to me, I would DNF your attempts anyway just because there was possibility that you cheated.

I didn’t ignore the fact, I just didn’t ask him about he judge. Campos clears any concern about the judge.

It’s common to get a judge possibly more than once here in Colorado, as I once got the same person 3 times in a 3x3 round, sometimes back to back. I don’t know if this is common in Brazil.

Also, another point I should mention: If you think the judge wasn’t involved and neither was the delegate, then how, in other ways, did he cheat the solve? I understand the idea of peeking, which With a music stand, harmonica holder and paper I’m pretty sure is impossible unless he was standing during his attempt.

Member

How exactly do you want us to provide solid evidence of him cheating when he was alone with the same judge during those attempts?

Here is how I see it:
- He put a chair/sign preventing other people from entering the room where he obtained his results.
- He was alone in the room without any supervision from someone else than the judge which most likely was his friend/inexperienced cuber (doesn't even matter at this point which one)
- Has a history of faking solves on youtube and claiming false times on reddit (campos20 provided links)
- Uncooperative behaviour and lack of respect for WCA officials
- Didn't record the solves straight away, because he allegedly didn't have time (not true, as for the couple of days he was fighting on facebook for hours over this. Recording sighted execution would probably take him <5 minutes.)
- Hiding uncomfortable facts in this thread

For me, it is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. With all my heart, I wish that after reopening the investigation he will be banned for at least 3+ years.

Member

How exactly do you want us to provide solid evidence of him cheating when he was alone with the same judge during those attempts?

Here is how I see it:
- He put a chair/sign preventing other people from entering the room where he obtained his results.
- He was alone in the room without any supervision from someone else than the judge which most likely was his friend/inexperienced cuber (doesn't even matter at this point which one)
- Has a history of faking solves on youtube and claiming false times on reddit (campos20 provided links)
- Uncooperative behaviour and lack of respect for WCA officials
- Didn't record the solves straight away, because he allegedly didn't have time (not true, as for the couple of days he was fighting on facebook for hours over this. Recording sighted execution would probably take him <5 minutes.)
- Hiding uncomfortable facts in this thread

For me, it is evidence beyond reasonable doubt. With all my heart, I wish that after reopening the investigation he will be banned for at least 3+ years.

I haven’t heard of this chair thing before so I’m not sure why everyone is bringing it up, how was it placed exactly? Inside our outside the room?

Yeah he was alone, not the competitors fault

I don’t see any fake videos and you can’t really prove those claims. Also people claiming false times at home =/= cheating an official wca competition and getting great results lol.

I have read the email and he may have been sassy but only when Lorenzo was rude.the only way in which he didn’t cooperate was in sending video evidence (which his channel provided except 5bld)

Well he didn’t record the solves for a while why would he record them straight away, also I was messaging him at the time of his ban announcement and he was out of town visiting family and didn’t have a cube on him. He could reply but not send in any solves.

Example of hiding uncomfortable facts?

Evidence beyond reasonable doubt =/= assumptions that imply someone cheating lol. The only way we have evidence beyond reasonable doubt is if video evidence is provided or if fabiano confesses to cheating.

Member

First I'd like to start by saying I really like Fábio de’Rose for the funny, helpful and smart person he is. He stood at my parents for a competition, I left him alone at my place during another (while I was busy) and we always kept a friendly relationship. Hopefully, this shows how much I used trust him. I’m a little disappointed at him because of what I think he did during these incidents and it’s quite painful to think of this again, since I was ready to let this go, but I think he’s misleading a few people here. There is a lot of information on this thread, I’ll just point those I know or I think that are lies.

The ban was posted on nov/20th. On the same day, he said to me he was looking for a new job. The day before, he had plenty of time to do a lot of posts/reply on reddit, 13 posts, if you count from midnight to 11:59 p.m.

Also, on the same day the announcement was made, he posted/replied 21 times during all the day long. So, I'm finding hard to agree that he was in such a hurry working and studying that he did not have 15 min to record the video then for WDC. It was not a weekend.

I’m posting about Reddit here because he blocked me on Facebook and WhatsApp days after the ban.

About what you said regarding the top cubers, I believe Sebastiano answered in a decent way, therefore I'm leaving it.

About the chair blocking the way in. It was there, I saw it (and at least 3 other competitors). As you can see, I was there too during his first attempt. I left the room since I was organizing stuff and I spent over 40 min on a total DNF. About 15 or 20 min later, I decided to check on him. The chair was clearly blocking the way in and it was not there when I left. I could move it out, but I thought this would make some noise, so I let it be. This chair also kept the guy who was recording stuff during Brasileiro2018 from going in. The chair was clearly put there by someone who did not wanted to let people in.

I was also at Mineirim, where he got his 28+ (later DNFed) solve. I remember him coughing but it was really occasional. A healthy person could cough like that, I don’t think I'd be affected by it if it were with me. There’s another thing I remember. We were all ready for MBLD, he stood and said “I need to go to the toilet”. The delegate said “can’t it wait? We’re about to start here”. Fabio replied “I can’t” and he left the area. The delegate wanted to wait for him to start, since the cubes were already scrambled. We waited him for about 8 min when I said to the delegate “Diego Meneghetti and me are using the full hour, if we don’t start without him, this will disturb the schedule”. We started, so I’m not sure when he returned. That's the only thing I remember regarding possible illness there.

About the reconstruction of his 28+, it was made just after the solve, not a couple of days after. Diego asked the delegate for the scramble and presented Fabio with it and asked how he did it. He reconstructed it, perfectly, I was there. He was calm and steady during it. His description included just regular comms with simple setups, not an R2 setup for 3 comms as claimed here (isn't it strange how could he reconstruct a R2 if it were a misscramble?). He posted another reconstruction on Facebook and then, after the video, he started claiming misscramble.

About Diego’s behavior. He was always a loyal competitor and I don’t think he would try to attack Fábio just because Fábio was a threat to him. Before that, Israel Fraga got a 28 and Diego did not make a thing. Israel even beat him on a competition. I believe Israel is more a threat to Diego then Fábio is, so it would make no sense to attack Fábio and let Israel be. Diego has a past of fighting against cheaters, like a guy who just inverted an FMC scramble and added a few redundant moves to cover it up. At the time, they both got a 29 single SAR. Diego asked to see it and warned the delegate about the inverse scramble thing. This was before the RUF addition.

About the judge, I trust the guy. He might be a little inattentive, and he definitely can’t tell the difference between a 3style solve on a 5x5 a yau5 solve, but I don’t think he can take part on any cheating. I believe he is just another victim here, since people are questioning whether he helped a competitor to cheat or not.

I was also at the South American championship. I did not see him entering, but I did not talk to him there. Since he blocked me everywhere he could, I decided to respect his decision, perhaps he got upset by how I was gathering information about the incidents so I could choose a side here, instead of trusting a friend just because of the friendship. What I know is that a few people really made he feel home there.

And finally, I was the first person to suspect Fábio’s acts. On Feb/2017, we competed together for the first time and I was a little afraid of him, that’s why I remember him. I was there trying to get podium on 3BLD (after driving 750 km) and he used to post solves in around 1 min on Facebook. He DNFed there with 7 and 8 minutes, he did not even try the third one. I thought “how can someone around 1 min get a 7 min DNF?”. He continued to get DNFs in competitions (11 in a row) and he was posting sub1 videos on Facebook. His first official success was a sub3 after a lot of sub1 videos. This is the only thing I have no proof. He deleted all messages of the Facebook group in which he posted such times (I really would like to see again some videos from early 2017). At the time, by July/2017, I spoke both to Diego Meneghetti and Israel Fraga I thought Fábio faked videos for Facebook and possibly for YouTube. They both defended Fábio saying they believed him, despite neither of them had competed with him back then. Diego and Israel used to believe Fábio mostly because of his questions about BLD and how helpful he was for the new BLDers. After he got his first success, I decided to trust on Diego's and Israel's analysis. If these 2 top BLDers believed, why shouldn’t I? I even said this to Fabio: “I thought you were fake, but now I believe you” during Silent Swap 2017. Looking back now, I wish I kept suspecting, at least I’d have stayed with him and the judge at the room when he got the 9 min success.

I do have 1 thing that show we can suspect his posts on internet. On Jan/30th/2017, he posted a 15,63 3x3 avg. 12 days later, he got a 36,92 official avg. Even Feliks used to fake some solves on the internet (like starting with a cross already done) to impress fellows, but he was like 12 years old or so. I know other competitors who used to fake solves and became good at it anyway (like Antônio), but Fábio was already over 30 years old when he started competing, no need to impress people to try to look good, I think.

About his videos on YouTube, I just have one thing to say. When we had the Jake Klassen incident, Fábio said on our WhatsApp group that Jake should record “long sessions of solves as proof”, Fabio even said he spoke that to Jake himself. Fábio should do as he said and record long sessions of solves, but his channel just have 1 solve each video.

There are some other strange things here that I did not include (like he asking around for a cube before getting the 9 min success. Why did he need a 5x5? Doesn’t he already had one or how did he practice?), but I included mostly things I have proof of.

I think the original poster (and others) has 2 ways here: believe there’s some sort of conspiracy against Fábio de’Rose including delegates, (former?) friends, fellow competitors, WDC or believe the he might be mislead by a competitor accused of something and that is telling lies to convince people about a conspiracy.

It looks like he told you a few lies to convince you (lack of time, position of the chair, time of reconstruction for a start). So, shall we agree that he could be misleading you?

I think the best closure here would be he saying "OK guys, I did something wrong and I feel deeply sorry". He could inform WCA about how he did it so we could improve competitions all over the world, the ban would be suspended, we'd all accept him back with open arms and he could get good results with his own efforts only right away. Of course some things would change, like we would look him closer, but that's a small price to pay, I'm sure he enjoy cubing.

Member

Alright, I just found this reddit comment that basically just /threads this. It was a reply to mine basically mentioning something in the thread and if anyone agreed. The community response aligns with my side.

Either the judge place the chair, in which there should be consequences for him (also would become a cheating conspiracy but probably not the case, or Fabio himself blocked the way into the room. That should lead to even more of a punishment. Also, If the WCA or WDC sees this then they should add a regulation so that a camera or a trusted person (besides the judge) should be in the "quiet room" when no delegate is present for ensuring no cheating is happening.

Member

Either the judge place the chair, in which there should be consequences for him (also would become a cheating conspiracy but probably not the case, or Fabio himself blocked the way into the room. That should lead to even more of a punishment. Also, If the WCA or WDC sees this then they should add a regulation so that a camera or a trusted person (besides the judge) should be in the "quiet room" when no delegate is present for ensuring no cheating is happening.

Member

I understand that there was one delegate at the competition. Fabio claims he received a reconstruction request 2 days after the comp, and you claim it was just after, there is definitely a collision of thoughts in this story and I hope that you both can clear up discrepancies.

This is the most clear part of it. 5 people confirmed the reconstruction was asked even before the end of the round and I watched it.

Diego (do you think he is tendentious? Discard his opinion, you still have 4 of them).

Myself

The delegate (he received the cube and scrambled it)

The guy who recorded the video of his final seconds of the solve

The organizer

Remove the word conspiracy I mentioned, and I never implied you are started one, as you mentioned. But if Fabio is legit, a lot of people that were actually there with him is wrong.

About how WDC conducted the investigation, when this all started I thought "if I was in charge of it, how would I conduct it?". I think it's a very difficult position, all my respect for his hard work on this case.

I'm a teacher and I've had about 3000 different students over the past 5 years. I'm proud that, among other things, I can recognize some students by its handwriting while they are studying with me. The chair had a sign on a paper placed on it saying "BLD area, keep it quiet" or something like that. When I read the sign, I recognized his handwriting at the time, since he did some written joke somewhere else. I don't think I could recognize it by now. Besides, who else would be interested in doing so?

You can see his judge, Fabio, me and the guy who was taking pictures of everyone (not of the second attempt, because of the chair). The chair was standing where I was (my left leg would be touching the chair), blocking the way in from outside. You couldn't even peek inside without moving the chair or going over it (by kneeing or something, risking making some noise during an ongoing BLD event). I did not try to move the chair out of empathy with a fellow BLDer. There was 2 types of chairs on the venue: plastic one, light, mostly used for WF solving and metal one, heavy. The chair blocking the way in was the made of metal one. About the position where Fabio was solving, he chose the most far place.

​

This is the opposite view. Pic was taken before the comp, we were studying the venue (I was one of the organizers). Fabio moved his table so it was touching those green pipes when he got the 9 min (I saw him moving his table. Since I was about to leave, I said "hey, move your table to the center, better lighting" and he replied "actually, here on the corners is perfect, just like the light of my bedroom, where I practice"). You can see the entrance and how a chair could block the way. People from outside couldn't even look.

Now, some more evidences

When he got the 26+2=8, he spent 7 seconds on 2 comms. If it were an easy misscramble, it would be like 7 comms. Considering this speed, it would take 24s just the execution. Now another possible scenario. If he got a fast memo, it would be like 8 s. The video I've seen starts at 19, so he would need 11 s to quickly execute 5 comms (almost 5 tps) and then 7 seconds to execute 2 slow comms, for some reason (almost 3 tps). The video includes a D2 after making a comm on the U face, so the D2 was useless here. This D2 led to the +2. Also, he has the entire recorded video, but he posted just the reaction on his channel (not to mention the pic with solved edges at 14, as Lorenzo posted), he didn't post the slow turning 28+ BLD.

Correct reconstruction just after the attempt, he posted another reconstruction featuring an R2 setup and then he started claiming misscramble.

On our WhatsApp group, about 1 week before the 9 min success, he posted that he got his first success in 5BLD in about 30 min.

People can confirm what is listed here. I don't know the details of the investigation and how much more info from other sources they have. I have more info but these are the most relevant somehow.

Member

Anybody with ready access to a fourth spacial dimension. Seriously, though, I can understand wanting to keep spectators out but if the delegate felt like he couldn’t get in to the room that ought to be reason enough to stop the attempt immediately.

Member

Anybody with ready access to a fourth spacial dimension. Seriously, though, I can understand wanting to keep spectators out but if the delegate felt like he couldn’t get in to the room that ought to be reason enough to stop the attempt immediately.

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