My Idea - Think Atheist2015-03-31T21:23:33Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/my-idea?groupUrl=billboard&commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A325492&groupId=1982180%3AGroup%3A171489&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIn fact, the only way to batt…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3256822010-07-31T18:09:02.081ZReggiehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Reggie
<i>In fact, the only way to battle delusion is to attack it from every possible angle. Something the legendary built-in "differences" between atheists will be very good at.<br />
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The audience of such propaganda is not really the hard-core believers but the soft ones, the fed-up ones, the closet-unbelievers, the tired new-agers... Nonsense is all-pervasive so I think all kinds of flags are necessary.</i><br />
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Exactly! That succinctly sums it up.
<i>In fact, the only way to battle delusion is to attack it from every possible angle. Something the legendary built-in "differences" between atheists will be very good at.<br />
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The audience of such propaganda is not really the hard-core believers but the soft ones, the fed-up ones, the closet-unbelievers, the tired new-agers... Nonsense is all-pervasive so I think all kinds of flags are necessary.</i><br />
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Exactly! That succinctly sums it up. Listen, I understand where yo…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3254972010-07-31T10:42:46.333ZReggiehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Reggie
<i>Listen, I understand where you're coming from. But it's not effective in getting people to understand us if we make ourselves out to be so much more superior and knowledgeable. We don't KNOW that there's no god. We're just open to more knowledge than they are.</i><br />
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Of course you can't prove a negative; that is a straw man and not something I have ever proposed.<br />
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But, can you prove that effective communication excludes being forceful or offensive to some people? You make the claim that it is…
<i>Listen, I understand where you're coming from. But it's not effective in getting people to understand us if we make ourselves out to be so much more superior and knowledgeable. We don't KNOW that there's no god. We're just open to more knowledge than they are.</i><br />
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Of course you can't prove a negative; that is a straw man and not something I have ever proposed.<br />
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But, can you prove that effective communication excludes being forceful or offensive to some people? You make the claim that it is not. How do you know <i>that</i>? Or is this along the Accommodationist desire to never distinguish the difference between respect of people and respect of beliefs?<br />
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Again, to clarify, I am not advocating smugly going around telling people they are stupid. But when even your quiet atheism still offends some religious folk, how will you appease <i>them</i>? Or will you tacitly support their beliefs with your deference and conversion?<br />
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This huge concern over being offensive is being blown out of proportion. When you have mutually exclusive world views and you are in the minority fighting for the correct one, you will offend people. If you don't, then you really are ineffectual.<br />
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Think about any socially progressive movement in the United States over the last 200 years and name one where people were not offended or harsh words were not used. Let us name one movement that was effective, that changed such a core belief in a large amount of people, and didn't offend hardly a soul and examine it as a model for expanding a reality based view. If our involvement in those c…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3254932010-07-31T10:25:14.989ZReggiehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Reggie
<i>If our involvement in those countries is for such glorious purposes and we are fulfilling that purpose, why is it that the young men and women we send over there are, when they come back, committing suicide at a rate that EXCEEDS the casualty rate while they are there?</i><br />
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Wow. I do love how anything plays into your fantasy narrative. Go ahead, Larry. Don't just beat around the bush by asking such scandalous and insinuating questions. Tell us the reason why war veterans are at higher risk…
<i>If our involvement in those countries is for such glorious purposes and we are fulfilling that purpose, why is it that the young men and women we send over there are, when they come back, committing suicide at a rate that EXCEEDS the casualty rate while they are there?</i><br />
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Wow. I do love how anything plays into your fantasy narrative. Go ahead, Larry. Don't just beat around the bush by asking such scandalous and insinuating questions. Tell us the reason why war veterans are at higher risk for suicide. Your examples given earlier t…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3254922010-07-31T10:19:49.208ZReggiehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Reggie
Your examples given earlier to Doug were imagined. Mine was real.<br />
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We get it, though. You don't like 'Merika. But while you bemoan "Amerikan" atrocities of music and fast food, why do you tacitly support International ones by claiming the Prime Directive? Will you go on the record as supporting Honor Killings if they are culturally relevant?
Your examples given earlier to Doug were imagined. Mine was real.<br />
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We get it, though. You don't like 'Merika. But while you bemoan "Amerikan" atrocities of music and fast food, why do you tacitly support International ones by claiming the Prime Directive? Will you go on the record as supporting Honor Killings if they are culturally relevant? Listen, I understand where yo…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3254482010-07-31T05:42:06.224ZRhiannon Smithhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/RhiannonSmith
Listen, I understand where you're coming from. But it's not effective in getting people to understand us if we make ourselves out to be so much more superior and knowledgeable. We don't KNOW that there's no god. We're just open to more knowledge than they are.
Listen, I understand where you're coming from. But it's not effective in getting people to understand us if we make ourselves out to be so much more superior and knowledgeable. We don't KNOW that there's no god. We're just open to more knowledge than they are. Just think if this lady was c…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3253892010-07-31T03:58:43.075ZReggiehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Reggie
Just think if <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/07/30/iran.stoning/index.html?hpt=T2" target="_blank">this lady</a> was condemned to flipping burgers and listening to Justin Beiber!
Just think if <a href="http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/07/30/iran.stoning/index.html?hpt=T2" target="_blank">this lady</a> was condemned to flipping burgers and listening to Justin Beiber! I was just using Moslem women…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3253822010-07-31T03:45:02.813ZDoug Reardonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DougReardon
I was just using Moslem women as one egregious example. I don't think our culture is anything to get pumped up about either. I am not part of this government, I was just born here. Your reaction seem a little over the top. I don't know what it is you think I said, but whatever it was that you think I meant, you're sadly mistaken. Did you not note the "?" at the end of those two sentences that seem to have so perturbed you? So, get right with Bob and chill dude.
I was just using Moslem women as one egregious example. I don't think our culture is anything to get pumped up about either. I am not part of this government, I was just born here. Your reaction seem a little over the top. I don't know what it is you think I said, but whatever it was that you think I meant, you're sadly mistaken. Did you not note the "?" at the end of those two sentences that seem to have so perturbed you? So, get right with Bob and chill dude. How many books have you read…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3253442010-07-31T02:42:37.475ZReggiehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Reggie
<i>How many books have you read on biology? On cosmology? On physics? On evolution? On psychology? How many biographies have you read?<br />
I'm a biologist so quite a few on biology and evolution both. 3 on cosmology. 1 on physics. 2 biographies. 8 on philosophy. And THEN I can go into religion directly and that doesn't include the "religious" books.</i><br />
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You really want me to list the books I have read? I can't even bring myself to do that. I have, I don't know, maybe hundreds of books in my office…
<i>How many books have you read on biology? On cosmology? On physics? On evolution? On psychology? How many biographies have you read?<br />
I'm a biologist so quite a few on biology and evolution both. 3 on cosmology. 1 on physics. 2 biographies. 8 on philosophy. And THEN I can go into religion directly and that doesn't include the "religious" books.</i><br />
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You really want me to list the books I have read? I can't even bring myself to do that. I have, I don't know, maybe hundreds of books in my office here. Do you really want me to tally them for you? If I turn out to be more well read than you, will that matter? Do I win? Or, should an argument stand on its own merits rather than how many books the arguer has read? I'm certainly less interested in how many books you have read than I am in your argument.<br />
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And really, you are a biologist? Why do I find that hard to believe? And why does it matter? Again, you missed the point about the meaning of credentials. Newton invented Calculus. That doesn't mean alchemy works.<br />
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<i>Religion is a naturally occurring phenomena and as such we should try to understand it as best we can from every angle that we can. Simply going, "it's stupid and illogical" is at best childish and at worst willfully ignorant</i><br />
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It is a naturally occurring phenomenon? What kind of biologist are you again? What does that even mean? It is natural because humans are "natural" and created it? Or, are you saying you have observed religion in the petri dish? Not sure what the "natural" argument is here that you are making. Where else in nature do you find religion? Please, do tell. That is a <i><b>very</b></i> odd thing for a biologist to say.<br />
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And for the record, your straw man simplification of my position seems below that of a person with scientific training. "Simply going it's stupid and illogical" is not anything I have argued for as a comprehensive plan to tackle delusion in society. But, for the record, religion <i>is</i> stupid and illogical. Why do I need to sugar coat that?<br />
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<i>Point of fact: "You just said we shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings."<br />
I NEVER said that. I did say that mockery and ridicule were powerful tools but ONLY if they're used in the correct way/situation and that's not very often.</i><br />
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Fair enough, you never explicitly stated that. But you should acknowledge that I never said ridicule and mockery should be used all the time without care, as you are implying. I am simply arguing that they are tools that work, can be used, and <i>should</i> be used and you seem to agree! If you want me to be more specific, just ask. Don't try to generalize my position based on your assumptions.<br />
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I find it hard to believe that you have any scientific training. You don't seem familiar with distilling ideas and concepts down to their component parts. I specifically talk about one thing, and you use that to make sweeping generalizations about positions I have not even discussed in this thread.<br />
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<i>If you're attempting to change something as far as people's mindsets and you measure your success based on the number of people you effect not whether or not you change the mind of the person you're debating...</i><br />
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Well, where is your evidence that your way is more effective? Have you performed this experiment? Did you control for confirmation bias? Do you have some studies you could point me to? or is this something the religious books tell you? Do the religious books admonish you for mocking their religion?<br />
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No hard feelings, but I am a bit befuddled by some of your arguments and reactions. Especially from someone claiming to be a biologist. "Some of us are going to the…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3253282010-07-31T02:06:46.429ZAdam AKA - themanofearthhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/themanofearth
"Some of us are going to the hoe down."<br />
My point exactly Jersy shore boy.<br />
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How many books have you read on biology? On cosmology? On physics? On evolution? On psychology? How many biographies have you read?<br />
I'm a biologist so quite a few on biology and evolution both. 3 on cosmology. 1 on physics. 2 biographies. 8 on philosophy. And THEN I can go into religion directly and that doesn't include the "religious" books.<br />
The reason I asked is because you seem to have a complete lack of understanding…
"Some of us are going to the hoe down."<br />
My point exactly Jersy shore boy.<br />
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How many books have you read on biology? On cosmology? On physics? On evolution? On psychology? How many biographies have you read?<br />
I'm a biologist so quite a few on biology and evolution both. 3 on cosmology. 1 on physics. 2 biographies. 8 on philosophy. And THEN I can go into religion directly and that doesn't include the "religious" books.<br />
The reason I asked is because you seem to have a complete lack of understanding of why I'm getting at what I'm trying to get at. Religion is a naturally occurring phenomena and as such we should try to understand it as best we can from every angle that we can. Simply going, "it's stupid and illogical" is at best childish and at worst willfully ignorant.<br />
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Point of fact: "You just said we shouldn't hurt anyone's feelings."<br />
I NEVER said that. I did say that mockery and ridicule were powerful tools but ONLY if they're used in the correct way/situation and that's not very often. If you're attempting to change something as far as people's mindsets and you measure your success based on the number of people you effect not whether or not you change the mind of the person you're debating...<br />
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Whatever. No hard feelings man. The fact the many Moslem wome…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2010-07-31:1982180:Comment:3253222010-07-31T02:03:43.136ZDoug Reardonhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DougReardon
The fact the many Moslem women are sequestered from knowledge, the news, the outside world, and only allowed to learn what is in the Koran, which makes it abundantly clear what her place is, doesn't in any way effect the way her life is lived? She can't withhold sex because her husband has the right to rape her, and she can't slit his throat while he sleeps because she would be doomed to hell.
The fact the many Moslem women are sequestered from knowledge, the news, the outside world, and only allowed to learn what is in the Koran, which makes it abundantly clear what her place is, doesn't in any way effect the way her life is lived? She can't withhold sex because her husband has the right to rape her, and she can't slit his throat while he sleeps because she would be doomed to hell.