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Shut up. You're not "entitled" to your opinion.

No, youâre not entitled to your opinion

Every year, I try to do at least two things with my students at least
once. First, I make a point of addressing them as âphilosophersâ â a
bit cheesy, but hopefully it encourages active learning.

Secondly, I say something like this: âIâm sure youâve heard the
expression âeveryone is entitled to their opinion.â Perhaps youâve even
said it yourself, maybe to head off an argument or bring one to a close.
Well, as soon as you walk into this room, itâs no longer true. You are
not entitled to your opinion. You are only entitled to what you can
argue for.â[SlightlyPerfect's emphasis! ]

A bit harsh? Perhaps, but philosophy teachers owe it to our students
to teach them how to construct and defend an argument â and to recognize
when a belief has become indefensible.

The problem with âIâm entitled to my opinionâ is that, all too often,
itâs used to shelter beliefs that should have been abandoned. It
becomes shorthand for âI can say or think whatever I likeâ â and by
extension, continuing to argue is somehow disrespectful. And this
attitude feeds, I suggest, into the false equivalence between experts
and non-experts that is an increasingly pernicious feature of our public
discourse.

Firstly, whatâs an opinion?

Plato distinguished between opinion or common belief (doxa) and
certain knowledge, and thatâs still a workable distinction today: unlike
â1+1=2â or âthere are no square circles,â an opinion has a degree of
subjectivity and uncertainty to it. But âopinionâ ranges from tastes or
preferences, through views about questions that concern most people such
as prudence or politics, to views grounded in technical expertise, such
as legal or scientific opinions.

You canât really argue about the first kind of opinion. Iâd be silly
to insist that youâre wrong to think strawberry ice cream is better than
chocolate. The problem is that sometimes we implicitly seem to take
opinions of the second and even the third sort to be unarguable in the
way questions of taste are. Perhaps thatâs one reason (no doubt there
are others) why enthusiastic amateurs think theyâre entitled to disagree
with climate scientists and immunologists and have their views
ârespected.â

Meryl Dorey is the leader of the Australian Vaccination Network,
which despite the name is vehemently anti-vaccine. Ms. Dorey has no
medical qualifications, but argues
that if Bob Brown is allowed to comment on nuclear power despite not
being a scientist, she should be allowed to comment on vaccines. But
no-one assumes Dr. Brown is an authority on the physics of nuclear
fission; his job is to comment on the policy responses to the science,
not the science itself.

So what does it mean to be âentitledâ to an opinion?

If âEveryoneâs entitled to their opinionâ just means no-one has the
right to stop people thinking and saying whatever they want, then the
statement is true, but fairly trivial. No one can stop you saying that
vaccines cause autism, no matter how many times that claim has been
disproven.

But if âentitled to an opinionâ means âentitled to have your views
treated as serious candidates for the truthâ then itâs pretty clearly
false. And this too is a distinction that tends to get blurred.

On Monday, the ABCâs Mediawatch program took WIN-TV Wollongong to
task for running a story on a measles outbreak which included comment
from â you guessed it â Meryl Dorey. In a response to a viewer
complaint, WIN said that the story was âaccurate, fair and balanced and presented the views of the medical practitioners and of the choice groups.â
But this implies an equal right to be heard on a matter in which only
one of the two parties has the relevant expertise. Again, if this was
about policy responses to science, this would be reasonable. But the
so-called âdebateâ here is about the science itself, and the âchoice
groupsâ simply donât have a claim on air time if thatâs where the
disagreement is supposed to lie.

The response from anti-vaccination voices was predictable. On the
Mediawatch site, Ms. Dorey accused the ABC of âopenly calling for
censorship of a scientific debate.â This response confuses not having
your views taken seriously with not being allowed to hold or express
those views at all â or to borrow a phrase from Andrew Brown, it âconfuses losing an argument with losing the right to argue.â Again, two senses of âentitlementâ to an opinion are being conflated here.

So next time you hear someone declare theyâre entitled to their
opinion, ask them why they think that. Chances are, if nothing else,
youâll end up having a more enjoyable conversation that way.

I changed the subject??? Well, umm I thought I was talking with OHgirl, about where she lived. In my State. I guess, I did change the subject. As if no one else does in a thread? Come on Iga...I have not 'accused' anyone, what I said is FACT and WHAT they do. It's no big deal Iga, because now I'm not going to be this nice person anymore. I'm going to give it right back. That is what you are seeing lately. I haven't been crying, trust me Iga. I've been laughing all day long. Sorry but it's ALL so funny! I don't care IF people are mean. Heck, this is Cm, EVERYONE is doing it. Yeah, I know I have long replies...lol...Iga, you know you would miss me IF I went away. So, ok.....I'll stay lol....I know you & others would just love for me to just disappear. I'm spoiling your fun for you. You know who is crying....is Liberals after Romney GREAT debate & his CRUSHING Obama. So, Iga don't feel so bad...Obama has 2 more chances...

Iga? Why is it other people can say whatever they want, but when I or someone else says something, they get attacked? It's like us Conservatives can't say anything....Can you just admit, that we ALL can & have been saying things about the other opponent. What's the big deal???

Quoting lga1965:

you changed the subject ----right about lunch time . LOL. you have been accusing many of us....you have been crying about how mean everybody is .And you have been writing LONG replies for about 6 hours.

Time to go now.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Iga, come on. I'm sorry but when is EVERYONE going to NOT be SO afraid & admit that EVERYONE attacks everyone here on CM. Geeeeee!! IF you haven't seen Sisteract's attacks on me, well you must of missed them & she covered it up so quickly. OR you must agree with her & even cheer her on. So, come on really? I can quote her attacks if you want.

But, it's true that's not where this post was suppose to go to. But, for some reason it has gone there. Sisteract, if she's truthful will admit she has done that. Iga, if you're truthful you have too. I now am doing that as well. That's the nature of this group Iga. Why are people denying this. Also, another 'nature of this group' is to change the subject within a thread. That happens all the time. Now, maybe we can respect the poster & get back to her post.

Quoting lga1965:

Oh my....now you are saying Sisteract attacks people? I have never seen her attack ANYONE! Geeeeeee.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Ok TCgirlatheart, I missed this quote of yours. First, I don't know why YOU have to ask me that. IF it were you I was speaking about ok, I understand that. What I am referring to is, that Sisteract and A LOT others have attacked people personally, for just stating their opinions in a respectful way. I don't think Sisteract would deny that. Heck, almost everyone does that.

That's the nature of this group. I personally haven't done that in the past, but in order to be in this group, I guess that's what one has to do to survive here. lol People may hate what I have said in my posts, but I NEVER attacked people personally. BIG difference to me. I have attacked people 'outside of CM' that involves certain high profile cases YES, but I don't attack others that attack me nor do I attack them personally.

Quoting TCgirlatheart:

What exactly are you accusing these two of??

Quoting Naturewoman4:

But, I don't get it. That's what a lot of people here on CM does, including you Sisteract & OHgirlinCA. We ALL do that. So, I think it's quite funny to hear people saying, that one doesn't have to be an A$$hole when posting our own opinions. What I hear mostly is people that read one's OWN opinions, is the person that quotes them as being A$$holes.

Attacking one's own point of view or facts that they put up, is one thing. But, attacking a person personally is a cheap shot. This forcus/debate group would certainly be a lot more fun, if EVERYONE would just refrain from attacking people personally. Just attack what they are saying, with reasons WHY they disagree.

Quoting Sisteract:

True

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

People are entitled to their opinions, and people are also entitled to dismiss the opinion of others.

However, IMO, having an opinion doesn't mean you have to be an asshole on how you present that opinion.

you changed the subject ----right about lunch time . LOL. you have been accusing many of us....you have been crying about how mean everybody is .And you have been writing LONG replies for about 6 hours.

Time to go now.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Iga, come on. I'm sorry but when is EVERYONE going to NOT be SO afraid & admit that EVERYONE attacks everyone here on CM. Geeeeee!! IF you haven't seen Sisteract's attacks on me, well you must of missed them & she covered it up so quickly. OR you must agree with her & even cheer her on. So, come on really? I can quote her attacks if you want.

But, it's true that's not where this post was suppose to go to. But, for some reason it has gone there. Sisteract, if she's truthful will admit she has done that. Iga, if you're truthful you have too. I now am doing that as well. That's the nature of this group Iga. Why are people denying this. Also, another 'nature of this group' is to change the subject within a thread. That happens all the time. Now, maybe we can respect the poster & get back to her post.

Quoting lga1965:

Oh my....now you are saying Sisteract attacks people? I have never seen her attack ANYONE! Geeeeeee.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Ok TCgirlatheart, I missed this quote of yours. First, I don't know why YOU have to ask me that. IF it were you I was speaking about ok, I understand that. What I am referring to is, that Sisteract and A LOT others have attacked people personally, for just stating their opinions in a respectful way. I don't think Sisteract would deny that. Heck, almost everyone does that.

That's the nature of this group. I personally haven't done that in the past, but in order to be in this group, I guess that's what one has to do to survive here. lol People may hate what I have said in my posts, but I NEVER attacked people personally. BIG difference to me. I have attacked people 'outside of CM' that involves certain high profile cases YES, but I don't attack others that attack me nor do I attack them personally.

Quoting TCgirlatheart:

What exactly are you accusing these two of??

Quoting Naturewoman4:

But, I don't get it. That's what a lot of people here on CM does, including you Sisteract & OHgirlinCA. We ALL do that. So, I think it's quite funny to hear people saying, that one doesn't have to be an A$$hole when posting our own opinions. What I hear mostly is people that read one's OWN opinions, is the person that quotes them as being A$$holes.

Attacking one's own point of view or facts that they put up, is one thing. But, attacking a person personally is a cheap shot. This forcus/debate group would certainly be a lot more fun, if EVERYONE would just refrain from attacking people personally. Just attack what they are saying, with reasons WHY they disagree.

Quoting Sisteract:

True

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

People are entitled to their opinions, and people are also entitled to dismiss the opinion of others.

However, IMO, having an opinion doesn't mean you have to be an asshole on how you present that opinion.

Getting back on post here. Iga, I actually agree with you on this one. Everyone has something to offer to all posts. People can disagree or agree. But, still you don't have to have a Degree to have valid points in a discussion. I also, don't believe someone should have to always put up facts to back up they're replies, opinions, feelings & comments.

Life experiences & 'common sense' for me, goes a long ways towards that. Degrees IMO just teaches you what you need in order to get that job/career, since it is required. Doesn't make you smarter than anyone else nor does it say that you know more on a subject, than others. I've worked in the Schools Districts & in a High School. Teachers are one of the most insecure people I've ever met. I have talked to many of them, & have spent my lunch hrs. in the Teacher's Lunch Rooms. For 12 yrs., so to me, that qualifies me to have something to say as to what SOME- Teachers are really all about & how SOME- insecure they really are.

Quoting lga1965:

So, OP, I guess that means that more than 50% of the time here at CM, we shouldn't reply. Unless I have facts and can prove my opinion, nobody should have to read my opinion. Or feelings. Or comments. Nothing should be posted unless there are facts to back up our replies,opinions,feelings,comments?

Personally, I think some people call people out as "attacking" them when they simply disagree with them, or tell them their opinion isn't backed up by facts.

I seldom call names or make posts personal, yet some people consider me to have attcked them. It's a matter of opinion.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Stacymom, I have apologize to OHgirlinCA already, you must of missed that. But, I DO believe in this group there ARE ALOT of people that just give their opinions in a RESPECTFUL way (as much as possible) yet, they get attacked personally for doing that. That is what I meant to say here. I'm also questioning what is being 'respectful' in stating one's opinions? What one may think is stating their opinions in a respectful way, may may not be to another person.

Quoting stacymomof2:

OHgirl, I have never seen you even be snarky. I can't believe you were called out here.

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

Are you saying I've been disrespectful to others when they're giving their opinion in a respectful manner?

I've called people out for being rude and acting like jerks, but I have never personally attacked someone simply on their opinion.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

But, I don't get it. That's what a lot of people here on CM does, including you Sisteract & OHgirlinCA. We ALL do that. So, I think it's quite funny to hear people saying, that one doesn't have to be an A$$hole when posting our own opinions. What I hear mostly is people that read one's OWN opinions, is the person that quotes them as being A$$holes.

Attacking one's own point of view or facts that they put up, is one thing. But, attacking a person personally is a cheap shot. This forcus/debate group would certainly be a lot more fun, if EVERYONE would just refrain from attacking people personally. Just attack what they are saying, with reasons WHY they disagree.

Quoting Sisteract:

True

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

People are entitled to their opinions, and people are also entitled to dismiss the opinion of others.

However, IMO, having an opinion doesn't mean you have to be an asshole on how you present that opinion.

Honest to God, Naturewoman4, I can't tell you what this post was meant to be, because after only reading 4 pages of it, I quit. You seemed to take this post as an opportunity to call people out, and whether or not that was valid, I don't know, but some of the people that you have targeted have seemed(to me at least) to strive for fairness and understanding. Can I say that they've done it 100% of the time? No, but I do believe that they have tried. Now, as to your treatment here, and what you have posted, what can I say? I try to stay out of the more controversial topics simply because they aren't worth it to me. Maybe you are misunderstood and unfairly targeted, but from what I've seen here, there generally is a reason for people to develop a "reputation" here.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know you, haven't really paid too much attention to your postings, but from everything I've read here in this post, you seemed to have caused the majority of the controversy, at least in this instance.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Your right gludwig. But, unfort. threads often go off topic somewhat. Yet, I feel that some of this, DOES have to do with this topic. At least I think it does. I also feel that A LOT of us here has issues. Serious, no. Perhaps, it's everyone having to defend oneself to other people's attacks. It's human nature. It's the way CM & this group inparticular is. Remember, the rules in this group. It states that personal attacks are permitted I guess.

I think it also is a 'build up' of what has been said over time by EVERYONE. I have no problem with it myself. To me, it was bound to happen in a post like this. But, getting back to the topic here. What would you think, should the discussion be anyway?

Quoting gludwig2000:

Dang, I've read 4 pages of this post, and I don't understand how it became a "Call Out" post. I mean, come on, was it the intention of this post and the OP to provide a grievance post? I doubt it, and it's a shame that it was turned into that. Someone has serious issues, in my opinion, and is trying to deflect those issues onto others. But again, that is just my opinion.

My point is the term entitled. No one is entitled to another human being, you know? Anything can be debated and argued. I'm not, like, entitled to you debating me. I don't get to tell you to debate me. I don't have that authority.

Quoting Bookwormy:

Debate then.

Quoting SlightlyPerfect:

No one is entitled to argue with anyone.

Quoting Bookwormy:

So Ham has an opinion, for example, about evolution, but since its based on biblical creationism & not factual science, he is not enitled to argue with Nye? Awesome!

I will respect what you have said. But, as you said yourself you really don't know what's gone on here on CM. Yes, I have been very aggressive here on this thread & for the first time in over 1 yr., after taking attack after attack from a lot of women here. I have not attacked back, I just have ignored it. I thought that was the best thing to do.

But, after awhile even I have had enough. So, you just happen to get in one of the post, that I just gave it back to them. I have now tried to redirect this thread, back to the orginal post. So, now we can all just get back to it. :) I have apologize when needed to, but with the others I won't. But, no need to. Back to the orginal post ok

Quoting gludwig2000:

Honest to God, Naturewoman4, I can't tell you what this post was meant to be, because after only reading 4 pages of it, I quit. You seemed to take this post as an opportunity to call people out, and whether or not that was valid, I don't know, but some of the people that you have targeted have seemed(to me at least) to strive for fairness and understanding. Can I say that they've done it 100% of the time? No, but I do believe that they have tried. Now, as to your treatment here, and what you have posted, what can I say? I try to stay out of the more controversial topics simply because they aren't worth it to me. Maybe you are misunderstood and unfairly targeted, but from what I've seen here, there generally is a reason for people to develop a "reputation" here.

Don't get me wrong, I don't know you, haven't really paid too much attention to your postings, but from everything I've read here in this post, you seemed to have caused the majority of the controversy, at least in this instance.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Your right gludwig. But, unfort. threads often go off topic somewhat. Yet, I feel that some of this, DOES have to do with this topic. At least I think it does. I also feel that A LOT of us here has issues. Serious, no. Perhaps, it's everyone having to defend oneself to other people's attacks. It's human nature. It's the way CM & this group inparticular is. Remember, the rules in this group. It states that personal attacks are permitted I guess.

I think it also is a 'build up' of what has been said over time by EVERYONE. I have no problem with it myself. To me, it was bound to happen in a post like this. But, getting back to the topic here. What would you think, should the discussion be anyway?

Quoting gludwig2000:

Dang, I've read 4 pages of this post, and I don't understand how it became a "Call Out" post. I mean, come on, was it the intention of this post and the OP to provide a grievance post? I doubt it, and it's a shame that it was turned into that. Someone has serious issues, in my opinion, and is trying to deflect those issues onto others. But again, that is just my opinion.

Yes, I will agree with that, to a point. I've been around long enough to also see a lot of horrible things said towards people as well. When they didn't deserved to be called those names. Attacks one's facts & stand, but don't attack people personally. Debate their stand & facts. Not them. I guess, it is a matter of opinion, those attacks. Maybe, what everyone should do, is read back their quotes to a person & ask themselves if THEY think it's mean or a horrible remark to that person.

When I first came into this group, over 1 yr. ago. I knew what I was getting myself into. I spent most of the yr. just either avoiding people that I knew was just set out to attack, or I would make small comments to them. Example: That when people have to constantly attack others, instead of just debating them, as very insecure people. That's about it. But, after awhile in order to stay in this group. You have to fight back. Giving it back to them, when they attack you personally for your views on issues. That's what I do now.

Quoting stacymomof2:

I didn't see that until later, it all came after the post I quoted.

Personally, I think some people call people out as "attacking" them when they simply disagree with them, or tell them their opinion isn't backed up by facts.

I seldom call names or make posts personal, yet some people consider me to have attcked them. It's a matter of opinion.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Stacymom, I have apologize to OHgirlinCA already, you must of missed that. But, I DO believe in this group there ARE ALOT of people that just give their opinions in a RESPECTFUL way (as much as possible) yet, they get attacked personally for doing that. That is what I meant to say here. I'm also questioning what is being 'respectful' in stating one's opinions? What one may think is stating their opinions in a respectful way, may may not be to another person.

Quoting stacymomof2:

OHgirl, I have never seen you even be snarky. I can't believe you were called out here.

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

Are you saying I've been disrespectful to others when they're giving their opinion in a respectful manner?

I've called people out for being rude and acting like jerks, but I have never personally attacked someone simply on their opinion.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

But, I don't get it. That's what a lot of people here on CM does, including you Sisteract & OHgirlinCA. We ALL do that. So, I think it's quite funny to hear people saying, that one doesn't have to be an A$$hole when posting our own opinions. What I hear mostly is people that read one's OWN opinions, is the person that quotes them as being A$$holes.

Attacking one's own point of view or facts that they put up, is one thing. But, attacking a person personally is a cheap shot. This forcus/debate group would certainly be a lot more fun, if EVERYONE would just refrain from attacking people personally. Just attack what they are saying, with reasons WHY they disagree.

Quoting Sisteract:

True

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

People are entitled to their opinions, and people are also entitled to dismiss the opinion of others.

However, IMO, having an opinion doesn't mean you have to be an asshole on how you present that opinion.

Exactly. When I disagree with someone, and ,for example, say that I think our President is a good man , then its just a matter of opinion, and NOT an attack.

You haven't attacked anyone or used bad language or called anyone names.:-)

This is getting .....strange,isn't it?

Quoting stacymomof2:

I didn't see that until later, it all came after the post I quoted.

Personally, I think some people call people out as "attacking" them when they simply disagree with them, or tell them their opinion isn't backed up by facts.

I seldom call names or make posts personal, yet some people consider me to have attcked them. It's a matter of opinion.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Stacymom, I have apologize to OHgirlinCA already, you must of missed that. But, I DO believe in this group there ARE ALOT of people that just give their opinions in a RESPECTFUL way (as much as possible) yet, they get attacked personally for doing that. That is what I meant to say here. I'm also questioning what is being 'respectful' in stating one's opinions? What one may think is stating their opinions in a respectful way, may may not be to another person.

Quoting stacymomof2:

OHgirl, I have never seen you even be snarky. I can't believe you were called out here.

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

Are you saying I've been disrespectful to others when they're giving their opinion in a respectful manner?

I've called people out for being rude and acting like jerks, but I have never personally attacked someone simply on their opinion.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

But, I don't get it. That's what a lot of people here on CM does, including you Sisteract & OHgirlinCA. We ALL do that. So, I think it's quite funny to hear people saying, that one doesn't have to be an A$$hole when posting our own opinions. What I hear mostly is people that read one's OWN opinions, is the person that quotes them as being A$$holes.

Attacking one's own point of view or facts that they put up, is one thing. But, attacking a person personally is a cheap shot. This forcus/debate group would certainly be a lot more fun, if EVERYONE would just refrain from attacking people personally. Just attack what they are saying, with reasons WHY they disagree.

Quoting Sisteract:

True

Quoting OHgirlinCA:

People are entitled to their opinions, and people are also entitled to dismiss the opinion of others.

However, IMO, having an opinion doesn't mean you have to be an asshole on how you present that opinion.

Taking bits from three different posts, and cutting them down, for ease of reply....

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Quoting lga1965:

So, OP, I guess that means that more than 50% of the time here at CM, we shouldn't reply. Unless I have facts and can prove my opinion, nobody should have to read my opinion. Or feelings. Or comments. Nothing should be posted unless there are facts to back up our replies,opinions,feelings,comments?

Iga, I actually agree with you on this one.
Everyone has something to offer to all posts. People can disagree or
agree. But, still you don't have to have a Degree to have valid points
in a discussion. I also, don't believe someone should have to always
put up facts to back up they're replies, opinions, feelings &
comments.

Life
experiences & 'common sense' for me, goes a long ways towards
that. Degrees IMO just teaches you what you need in order to get that
job/career, since it is required. Doesn't make you smarter than anyone
else nor does it say that you know more on a subject, than others.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Quoting kailu1835:

I
was with the article until it stated that only a person with
"expertise" (ie book learning) is qualified to argue a debate. There
are very valid points to both the pro vaxers and the anti vaxers.
Implying that only pro vaxers have any accurate information, is, by
definition, completely incorrect. It isn't an opinion based on nothing,
it is based on scientific data (both sides).

That
is where I have a problem as well. My mom only reach 10th grade. Now
some people may think "well she must not be very smart". When she's the
smartest woman I've ever known. She spends her days/nights reading,
reading, reading. She loves reading. I believe in technical
jobs/trades yes, you have to go through the process of getting your
Education, College Degrees. But, that doesn't mean they are smarter
than those that didn't go to College or get their G.E.D.

I
believe there are many people throughout History, that are considered
'very smart', & even way smarter than people that went to College. I
don't know why so many people, just feel since they went to College,
that makes them smarter in debates, smarter in LIFE, therefore whatever
they they have to say MUST be the truth & that ONLY THEY are
qualified to be in a debate. I believe that "Common Sense", in the end
out weighs that College Degree. Just my opinion of course. I have
seen SO MANY people with their College Degrees, & yet they have NO
common sense AT ALL! Life experience too, GREATLY qualifies a person to
be in debates & have their thoughts/opinions REALLY count.

To
me, having common sense & life experiences goes a long way, towards
one's intelligence. Intelligence is not having one's degrees.
Intelligence is gained through other avenues. IMO.

Quoting Naturewoman4:

Everyone posts,
talks, in the way they do. That's what makes us ALL different. There
is NO 1 person that is better at debating than another. There is NO 1
person that is smarter than the other person.

I hear what you're saying.

But I think the definitions you are using for "smart" and "intelligent" may be causing confusion, so I'm going to attempt to restate your point using different language, and I'd appreciate it if you could reply saying whether the way I've restated it works for you.

Everybody has a different experience of life. They have either lived in different places, met different people or have had different things happen to them.

Therefore, in any particular debate, anybody may have a piece of information or perspective, relevant to the topic, that is new to the other debaters, whatever their age, IQ or educational background.

Therefore everyone is worth listening to, because you don't know for sure in advance who will turn out to have a missing piece of the puzzle.

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