So... I was just looking at another Pharmacy discussion forum ( Pharmacyweek.com), and I noticed that 80% of the comments came from retail pharmacists who really had a negative outlook on their position. One post in particular bragged about how many prospective pharmacists they've tried to discourage from coming into the field.
I do realize that many dislike retail pharmacy. If you REALLY are unhappy you should do something to change it. Is retail something that people just get sucked into for the money, and then get stuck there once they start a family...etc.? Many of us are going to come out of school with a lot of debt(UOP,USC...yikes). I guess it all comes down to what is more important...
Maybe the pharmacists who rant and rave on Pharmacyweek.com have nothing better to do but b*itch and whine about their job. Misery loves company. Perhaps we need to get more Pharmacists on this forum - you know, the happy ones.
Just babbling, I guess
jason

Originally posted by jason UCSD2000 Maybe the pharmacists who rant and rave on Pharmacyweek.com have nothing better to do but b*itch and whine about their job. Misery loves company. Perhaps we need to get more Pharmacists on this forum - you know, the happy ones.

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On-line forums tend to attract whiners and complainers so it's easy to see why there is some skewness in the distribution of lovers and haters of pharmacy on-line. These on-line wankers...oops..whiners obviously don't have much going on for themselves, so it wouldn't surprise me that even if they practiced some other profession, they'd be on doctors.com or ****.com bhitchin about stuff.
My dad is a pharmacist and one day, after hearing all this negativity about pharmacy, I asked him if he was happy with his job. "YES. I am really satisfied and proud about being a pharmacist", he replied. Funny, the only computer program he's ever worked with is the computer system in the pharmacy. He's never surfed the internet. Heck, he doesn't even have one email account! But he sure does love his job.

Originally posted by jason UCSD2000 .... Maybe the pharmacists who rant and rave on Pharmacyweek.com have nothing better to do but b*itch and whine about their job. Misery loves company....

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Yes, misery loves "Slaver"! (He's going by the name "YESUNIONIZE!" now) I get a kick out of reading the posts on that forum. I take it with a huge grain of salt, but I like to hear people vent. It's quite entertaining...and more than occasionally infuriating.

Believe it or not, the views that are expressed on that board are shared by many pharmacists...particularly those in retail. Many are frustrated because the corporate level supervisors will not stand behind you and you are often made to work your shift without any breaks. I agree with "Slaver" on many issues.

The bottom line in pharmacy is that the retail setting is closer to a sweatshop than any other health professional work environment. For this, however, pharmacists have only themselves to blame. I have found that many RPh's that I have worked with are addicted to their salaries and live beyond their means. Actually, the APhA is to blame as well, seeing as they refuse to take a stand in favor of pharmacists on many issues, including the new OT regulations and RPh breaks.

Now don't get me wrong...I call things as I see them. I have also seen many environments where pharmacists play key roles and their opinions are respected. These have been primarily clinical pharmacists and pharmacists in non-traditional positions (pharmacoeconomics, etc...). Pharmacy can be a rewarding career, but there are many drawbacks to it, primarily the length of schooling and the cost of the education.

As an aside, I have posted periodically on the Pharmacyweek board under "RXIntern". My experiences from rotations have pointed me in a new direction from my retail past...towards nuclear pharmacy. So far, I have to say that I love it. You must choose your own path, but you should know ALL of the good and bad that may go along with your choice of work settings.

Given the shortage in pharmacists, one would think RPh's are in an ideal position to demand the changes to the retail workplace that would alleviate those frustrations....but there is a lack of aggressive representation for the profession. There seems to be no active union organizing (despite the existence of pharmacy guilds in some areas), and the APhA is terribly ineffective at voicing the concerns of pharmacists in retail practice. The NACDS, the organization that represents and lobbies for chain drug stores has much bigger clout in DC.

Believe it or not, the views that are expressed on that board are shared by many pharmacists...particularly those in retail. Many are frustrated because the corporate level supervisors will not stand behind you and you are often made to work your shift without any breaks. I agree with "Slaver" on many issues.

The bottom line in pharmacy is that the retail setting is closer to a sweatshop than any other health professional work environment. For this, however, pharmacists have only themselves to blame. I have found that many RPh's that I have worked with are addicted to their salaries and live beyond their means. Actually, the APhA is to blame as well, seeing as they refuse to take a stand in favor of pharmacists on many issues, including the new OT regulations and RPh breaks.

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Those frustrations may be common, but to varying degrees of intensity. I know quite a few retail pharmacists, particularly those working for Target and Safeway/Vons, who are quite happy with their workplace. I've also met a few chain pharmacists who are very unhappy.

If pharmacists were not so inclined to accept the high salaries, bonuses, luxury car leases, etc., being dangled by chain employers, maybe those workplace issues will be addressed by the employers themselves (just wishful thinking ). Still, pharmacists, especially newly graduated PharmD's see $$ in front of their eyes, and willingly take the "combat pay", and are surprised to see "combat" working in "sweatshop conditions", "flipping scriptburgers", "working the drive-thru handing out meds like an order of fries", performing as third party adjudication experts, etc. I'm sorry, I'm having a hard time feeling sympathy for some of those whiners. Either work for another retail establishment, or find something else to do with your PharmD.

People tend to forget that retail is just a branch of pharmacy. If you are unhappy, you can switch to another pharmaceutical area. If you still complain, you are just an idiot who doesn't see the benefits infront of him/her.

I can assure that burger king employees will NEVER complain if they were paid 80k-100k/year even if they they had to cook 50 burgers/1hr. Also, let's not forgot the enormous benefits that retail pharmacist get, in addition, to their salaries. I find it funny when angry RPHs compare pharmacy drive thru to fast food drive thru. My question to them is: have you ever worked in a fast food enviroment???? I did and that is slave work. Comparing it to a pharmacy drive thru, you must on crack first and then your comparison may make slight sense.

However, Burger King employees would think twice before accepting a position that can be charged with Manslaughter Class I if they screw up (poison their customers). The money always comes with a hitch. And yes, during my short career as an intern, two pharmacists in my little state have been convicted (and that complete jackass monster in KC). If nothing else, a pharmacist is a walking lawsuit insurance plan for a corporation.

Unfortunately, I have to agree with AngryRPH with pharmacy's lack of or negative leadership. Because of a lack of a cohesive voice in pharmacy, we have tended to make bad decisions as a profession.

I am saying nothing about the state of single, individual pharmacists. However, I think pharmacist's make really stupid decisions as a collective. Individual decisions may be bright, but each individual decision contributes to a collective failure.

Think of it this way. A man runs from a battle, he survives. A unit runs from a battle, they live. An army runs from a battle, they lose and are slaughtered . Our profession has demostrated time and again that its lack of cohesion is its downfall.

We as a profession have not yet proven a value-added service on a national scales. It is still being done incrementally with good/great pharmacists on the line individually converting more doctors to the idea of pharm. care. GravyRPH could probably attest to the struggles involved with convincing providers that pharmacist can provide skilled patient care.

Retail pharmacy can be a sweatshop if you agree to it. I strongly agree with LVPharm that you can position yourself in a chain that you can enjoy your career or work independent. You can also trade for money by working in a poor environment. A couple of stores in my state are notorious for that. If I recognize AngryRPH correctly, he is legendary at my school for cutting his clinical teeth at one of them. The main reason I believe in clinical pharmacy is that I don't stand a chance filling against a ScriptPro 200 and telecounseling.

Our unimpressive track record MUST be reversed or we will die as a profession. We must change and demonstrate our value to the public, or we will be eliminated. Period.

Very impressive Lord, and I agree. Not to sound campy or anything, but it has to start with pharm students when they're still in school; where the networking and resources are so easy to come by. Moreover, there's still time to forge a collective, cohesive agenda when you're in school. After you enter the field, with little time and massive commitments it's just too hard to develop foundation that will be necessary to re-position pharmacy where it should be.

It's also a matter of allocating resources. Should pharmacy focus on developing one of their disciplines (policy, clinical care, retail, gerontology) to bring the field further or does the profession as a whole need to move forward? I'm trying to bring pharmD's into the mix in drug policy, which i think is overrun with MDs and phDs calling the shots. I think the dearth of retail pharmacists in these discussions is ludicrous. The professionals who see the habits of patients and experience the impact that drugs have on them with the greatest frequency should be the first experts to be called into these discussions. I think we only have ourselves to blame for not being move involved. Not to say that pharmD's are gonna get invited to this party. You've gotta invite yourself.

Originally posted by Triangulation Very impressive Lord, and I agree. Not to sound campy or anything, but it has to start with pharm students when they're still in school; where the networking and resources are so easy to come by. Moreover, there's still time to forge a collective, cohesive agenda when you're in school. After you enter the field, with little time and massive commitments it's just too hard to develop foundation that will be necessary to re-position pharmacy where it should be.

It's also a matter of allocating resources. Should pharmacy focus on developing one of their disciplines (policy, clinical care, retail, gerontology) to bring the field further or does the profession as a whole need to move forward? I'm trying to bring pharmD's into the mix in drug policy, which i think is overrun with MDs and phDs calling the shots. I think the dearth of retail pharmacists in these discussions is ludicrous. The professionals who see the habits of patients and experience the impact that drugs have on them with the greatest frequency should be the first experts to be called into these discussions. I think we only have ourselves to blame for not being move involved. Not to say that pharmD's are gonna get invited to this party. You've gotta invite yourself.

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I am with you, Tri. We definitely need to bring more PharmD's into the mix on policy. Too bad it's too late for us to run for governor on that platform

I was talking to a family friend who is an MD/MPH and has spent a career in the public health service. I mentioned that I was leaning away from going the MD to health policy route and more towards the PharmD to policy route and he told me he had never heard of anyone doing that, or even thought about it, but that it would be a good idea to get more pharmacists involved, especially in drug policy. And as I have spent the last 6 weeks watching a prime example of distastrous policy unfold at my store I am more convinced then ever that we need people to do this. I highly doubt it was a PharmD or someone familiar with how retail pharmacies work that created this crazy new drug system the county has implemented. I know in the end it all comes back to $ but we need some policy makers who can way both the monetary and human costs. So I hope to do that and I plan to get myself invited.

If I had 20 years as an RPh and some 26-year-old new-hire, fresh out of PharmD school, made 20K more than me and wanted to be called 'doctor', I'd be a little sore too.

Imagine: 6 years of school to earn your doctorate and 15 years in the business, then your supervisor tells you your degree is being phazed-out and youll be training Dr. Joe Newbie, DPh, and taking the price-tag-sticker off his brand new company car. Oh and you should hurry up and finish your lunch. Chop chop!

If I had 20 years as an RPh and some 26-year-old new-hire, fresh out of PharmD school, made 20K more than me and wanted to be called 'doctor', I'd be a little sore too.

Imagine: 6 years of school to earn your doctorate and 15 years in the business, then your supervisor tells you your degree is being phazed-out and youll be training Dr. Joe Newbie, DPh, and taking the price-tag-sticker off his brand new company car. Oh and you should hurry up and finish your lunch. Chop chop!

I'd turn into Pig Vomit real quick.

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Uhm, your pharmD does not matter in retail. In fact, most of the BS degree holders will be making almost twice the money that you will be when you come out. A lot of them have contracts with their companies allowing them to work overtime making an hour and a half.

Uhm, your pharmD does not matter in retail. In fact, most of the BS degree holders will be making almost twice the money that you will be when you come out. A lot of them have contracts with their companies allowing them to work overtime making an hour and a half.

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Uhm it was a joke, you drip

Besides, every PharmD grad working in retail that I know also gets that privelage; they wouldn't dream of signing with a company that wouldn't allow for the overtime.

Also, if a PharmD didn't matter, there would not be schools offering a PharmD degree to those pharmacists in the work force with a BS.

Besides, every PharmD grad working in retail that I know also gets that privelage; they wouldn't dream of signing with a company that wouldn't allow for the overtime.

Also, if a PharmD didn't matter, there would not be schools offering a PharmD degree to those pharmacists in the work force with a BS.

Think before you type, man!

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Okay, let me rephase it. Sorry if I wasnt clear. MOST BS GET OT AFTER THEY WORK AN 8 HOUR DAY. This means if they work a 13 hour shift, they get 5 hours OT. If they work a graveyard shift after, they get paid 75 dollars for 18 hours. Most new pharmacists coming out do not get that contract. A lot of the jobs that I am looking at including CVS, ans Rite Aid do not pay time and a half. That is why your average pharmacists rake in 90k to 100k depending on your benefits for the average 40 hour workload. If you work ot. .. you would be making about 150k which you dont see so much

The only time your pharmD matters is when you are working academia, and academic hospital, or as a clinical pharmacist. I am not sure how far into the program you are in, but your degree does not make you a more competant pharmacist. It only allows you to have the MINIUM skills required to be one.

You've got to be kidding yourself to think that there is such a pharmacist shortage that companies are willing to pay you a time and a half after 8 hours, give you a car, match your 401k plan, pay for your health and dental visits. . . . get real here buddy.

If you think that every pharmacy out there can support two pharmacists on that wage in addition to their rent, other staff, inventory losses, and so on. . . you are seriously in lala land. Most independent pharmacies are barely surviving and many are being closed down. Once the chains consolidate like they are doing right now, this will even give them a better reason to reduce rates like tuition reembursement (RA recently took that out).

Yes there will be an increased demand in hospitals for pharmacists despite many of them being closed down or expanding horzitonally (ie ambulatory clinics). NO, they will not pay you 100k+ and give you a brand new car. For that, I might as well hire two nurses or pay a little bit more and get myself a doctor.

OKAY, now that i put some thought into my post, maybe you can reconsider and get back to me.

Okay, let me rephase it. Sorry if I wasnt clear. MOST BS GET OT AFTER THEY WORK AN 8 HOUR DAY. This means if they work a 13 hour shift, they get 5 hours OT. If they work a graveyard shift after, they get paid 75 dollars for 18 hours. Most new pharmacists coming out do not get that contract. A lot of the jobs that I am looking at including CVS, ans Rite Aid do not pay time and a half. That is why your average pharmacists rake in 90k to 100k depending on your benefits for the average 40 hour workload. If you work ot. .. you would be making about 150k which you dont see so much

The only time your pharmD matters is when you are working academia, and academic hospital, or as a clinical pharmacist. I am not sure how far into the program you are in, but your degree does not make you a more competant pharmacist. It only allows you to have the MINIUM skills required to be one.

You've got to be kidding yourself to think that there is such a pharmacist shortage that companies are willing to pay you a time and a half after 8 hours, give you a car, match your 401k plan, pay for your health and dental visits. . . . get real here buddy.

If you think that every pharmacy out there can support two pharmacists on that wage in addition to their rent, other staff, inventory losses, and so on. . . you are seriously in lala land. Most independent pharmacies are barely surviving and many are being closed down. Once the chains consolidate like they are doing right now, this will even give them a better reason to reduce rates like tuition reembursement (RA recently took that out).

Yes there will be an increased demand in hospitals for pharmacists despite many of them being closed down or expanding horzitonally (ie ambulatory clinics). NO, they will not pay you 100k+ and give you a brand new car. For that, I might as well hire two nurses or pay a little bit more and get myself a doctor.

OKAY, now that i put some thought into my post, maybe you can reconsider and get back to me.

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1) The company car thing was a joke, which has clearly evaded your autistic sense of humor.

2) If you aren't getting the overtime option, you need to work on your negotiation skills. They do allow for that option, thay just may not OFFER it.

3) No need to type back; I have humiliated you enough. Also, I don't like you.

1) The company car thing was a joke, which has clearly evaded your autistic sense of humor.

2) If you aren't getting the overtime option, you need to work on your negotiation skills. They do allow for that option, thay just may not OFFER it.

3) No need to type back; I have humiliated you enough.

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haha so are you saying everyone to this forum that most companies do offer ot after 8 hours? So tell me, how far are you into the program? p1 2 3 or 4?

PS if you think this is a humilation debate, you are in the wrong place. This forum is for discussion of the profession and you should reconsider what is a joke or not. If you think we are all pharmD's here, you are kidding yourself.

haha so are you saying everyone to this forum that most companies do offer ot after 8 hours? So tell me, how far are you into the program? p1 2 3 or 4?

PS if you think this is a humilation debate, you are in the wrong place. This forum is for discussion of the profession and you should reconsider what is a joke or not. If you think we are all pharmD's here, you are kidding yourself.

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2) If you aren't getting the overtime option, you need to work on your negotiation skills. They do allow for that option, thay just may not OFFER it.

Now that you have learned to think before you type, try reading before you type!

They also may offer you a billion dollar a year cash bonus. GG so tell me what your experience is with negotiating salaries and with the program? are you a p3 or p4?

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I have already taught you how to think and read, now you want me to negotiate for you as well.

Do more research. This is capitalist USA, not communist China. We have options here. Depending on where you go, different overtime options apply. You may have to work harder, but if you want the time+a half its out there.
Keep looking grasshopper!! Don't sell youself short just so you can brag that you have 5 offers lined up.

(Yes I have seen the actual paychecks....time + 1/2 for over 40 hrs for PharmD grad 2005) Of course that doesn't include signing bonus....

Will things always be this good? probably not. But, the whole issue here was that you proclaimed that PharmDs do not get time-and-a-half, which is false.

I've heard they will perhaps be better...a Pharm prof. I heard speak over the summer was sharing his opinions and opinions of other pharmacists in the academic world that Pharm salaries will continue to rise for quite a while. Good news.

I was reading this thread & didn't realize it started in 2003 & has been resurrected! But...I think there are real geographic differences in our careers. I will agree, though, that our professional organizations do not have our best interests at heart with regard to working conditions!

Where I am in N CA - we are mostly PharmD's & have been for a long time. That's not to say BS pharmacists don't come here, pass the boards & work - they do & I've worked with many & they've been as competent & caring as any Pharm.D But...every employer I've had has preferred a PharmD & I've had 23 years in hospital/home care & 7 in retail.

We have a tremendous pharmacist shortage here. In fact...last weekend, a holiday (or spring break) for some, did not have enough floaters or relief (thru agencies), who could cover for all the requested time off.

I get time & 1/2 for more than 8hrs & more than 40 hrs/week, have a 401K, defined benefit employer funded retirement, health insurance, 5 weeks vacation - but no car! They do pay bonuses for places which have a hard time attracting pharmacists (the north coast). I have a lunch break everyday & when I work without a tech, I close the pharmacy for lunch. I'm very supported by my manager & district personnel.

I'm generally a very happy pharmacist, but I've had my bad days. I actually left my hospital job of 20 years because of working conditions. My opinion is that part of being a professional is deciding what you are willing to compromise & at what point you refuse. Each of you has to make that decision for yourself. Good luck to all of you!

I was reading this thread & didn't realize it started in 2003 & has been resurrected! But...I think there are real geographic differences in our careers. I will agree, though, that our professional organizations do not have our best interests at heart with regard to working conditions!

Where I am in N CA - we are mostly PharmD's & have been for a long time. That's not to say BS pharmacists don't come here, pass the boards & work - they do & I've worked with many & they've been as competent & caring as any Pharm.D But...every employer I've had has preferred a PharmD & I've had 23 years in hospital/home care & 7 in retail.

We have a tremendous pharmacist shortage here. In fact...last weekend, a holiday (or spring break) for some, did not have enough floaters or relief (thru agencies), who could cover for all the requested time off.

I get time & 1/2 for more than 8hrs & more than 40 hrs/week, have a 401K, defined benefit employer funded retirement, health insurance, 5 weeks vacation - but no car! They do pay bonuses for places which have a hard time attracting pharmacists (the north coast). I have a lunch break everyday & when I work without a tech, I close the pharmacy for lunch. I'm very supported by my manager & district personnel.

I'm generally a very happy pharmacist, but I've had my bad days. I actually left my hospital job of 20 years because of working conditions. My opinion is that part of being a professional is deciding what you are willing to compromise & at what point you refuse. Each of you has to make that decision for yourself. Good luck to all of you!

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How long did it take for you to get 5wks of vacation? Is that the max or will it continue to increase?

Probably because retail positions comprise the majority of the jobs in pharmacy.

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I wonder how hard it is to find something other than a retail pharmacy job. I worked at a retail pharmacy for a few months in the summer. The pharmacist where I worked really had no break the whole day. There was no lunch break so she would pretty much have to work and eat at the same time if she wanted to eat.

One pharmacist was filling in for one of the regular pharmacists one time and he was saying that a lot of pharmacists have vericose veins showing on their legs because of standing so much. I never really realized how tiring it is to stand without sitting for 8 hours. The pharmacist though where I worked said that she thought retail pharmacy was less stressful than hospital pharmacy because she had experience in each. I guess most health professions though require a lot of standing.