2009.12.03 - Workshop 36

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The following is the transcript for the workshop of Dec 3rd 2009.

Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Stim :) Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Stim:) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Eliza :) Eliza Madrigal: Hi Stim, Scath, Gaya, Justine :) Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Eliza:) Stim Morane: Hi Gaya, Scathach, Eliza! Justine Rhapsody: Hi Eliza :) Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Timbo:) Eliza Madrigal: Hi Tim...think I saw right through you before :) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tim :) Timbo Quan: hello everyone Stim Morane: Hi Timbo Eliza Madrigal: Hi Pila! Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Pila :) Pila Mulligan: greetings freinds Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Pila:0 Timbo Quan: Hello Pila Justine Rhapsody: Hello Pila Stim Morane: Hi Pila! Eliza Madrigal: greetings and felicitations Pila Mulligan: hi Tarmel Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Tarmel :) Tarmel Udimo: Hi all! Eliza Madrigal: Hello again Tarmel, Kaju Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Tarmel:) Eliza Madrigal: :) Stim Morane: Hey Tarmel! Tarmel Udimo: Finally a day I can make it Timbo Quan: Hi Tarmel Gaya Ethaniel: :) Justine Rhapsody: Hello Tarmel Tarmel Udimo: Stim you've changed:) Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Calvino :) Pila Mulligan: hi Calvino Calvino Rabeni: greetings Gaya :) Stim Morane: Hi Justine, Calvino Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Calvino! Tarmel Udimo: Hi again Calvino Timbo Quan: Hello Calvino Calvino Rabeni: :) Scath, everyone Justine Rhapsody: hello Calvino Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Storm :) Eliza Madrigal: :) Eliza Madrigal: Hello Calvino, Storm Tarmel Udimo: hello storm, nice entrance Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Storm:) Timbo Quan: Hello Storm Storm Nordwind grins Tarmel Udimo: good, content Pila Mulligan: hi Storm Storm Nordwind: 5.6, 5.7, 5.4 Stim Morane: Hi Storm Storm Nordwind: Hi all Gaya Ethaniel: Hello Dao :) Dao Yheng: Hi! Still rezzing chairs :) Timbo Quan: Hi Storm, Dao Gaya Ethaniel: :) Stim Morane: Hi Dao :) Pila Mulligan: hi Dao Scathach Rhiadra: Hello Dao:) Tarmel Udimo: Hi Dao Eliza Madrigal: Hi Dao :) Stim Morane: My Thanks to those of you who contributed personal reflections to our wiki over the past week. Gaya Ethaniel: :) Stim Morane: All of them were helpful to me, and some were quite amusing too. Stim Morane: :) Gaya Ethaniel is curious ... :P Stim Morane: curious? Gaya Ethaniel: What was amusing I mean :) Stim Morane: well, Dao has quite a sly sense of humor, for instance. Scathach Rhiadra: :) Gaya Ethaniel: I like Dao's report too. Quite interesting ... very different from what I know :) Eliza Madrigal nods, smiling Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: They were all valuable ... Dao Yheng: Hey, picking on the lagging one today! Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh Dao Yheng: :) Eliza Madrigal: :) Stim Morane: So did any of you get a sense of either of the two emphases from last week, human nature or "aliveness" nature? Stim Morane: Either by their presence or relative absense? Gaya Ethaniel: I guess going through being sick was some sort of seeing being 'alive' ... Stim Morane: Yes Stim Morane: How are you now? Gaya Ethaniel: Well now thanks :) Stim Morane: Great Gaya Ethaniel: I didn't push too much to get back to things ... was careful. Stim Morane: Sure, best approach Stim Morane: Many people I know now have the flu ... a tricky one. Stim Morane: So Gaya, you're certainly exempt from "7 days of homework" ... Gaya Ethaniel: :) though I was sick more from being stressed for previous few weeks rather than flu. Calvino Rabeni: I put my attention into "tiredness" and found it rather deliciously "alive". So it's not what I'm used to thinking. Gaya Ethaniel: ? Stim Morane: This surprises you? Gaya Ethaniel: mhm Stim Morane: But the point is, in part, that everything has this aliveness in it, when seen more directly. Gaya Ethaniel: Though this time I did see being sick isn't being down ... tricky. Gaya Ethaniel: ok Stim Morane: darkness, obstacles, sickness, etc. Gaya Ethaniel: I guess ... had to eat more. I got sick of eating! Stim Morane: illness is certainly an opportunity, not that I'm hoping any of you will suffer ... Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: oh well, you can stop eating for a while then Gaya Ethaniel: yes :) Stim Morane: OK ... Stim Morane: so, other responses re the two natures I mentioned? Dao Yheng: I was surprised I did feel a sense of aliveness over the holidays, but the hard time was the bad phone call Stim Morane: ah Stim Morane: that played out for quite a while? Stim Morane: Eliza, you mentioned a number of points that are relevant to our discussion, one way or another? Stim Morane: Are there any further observations along those lines? Eliza Madrigal: Hm, not sure which aspects... I found it helpful to go from watching/walking around with energy... into noticing aliveness... Stim Morane: Are you still "cleaning out"? Eliza Madrigal: and experiencing turbulence while at the same time doing that... Eliza Madrigal: Oh yes indeed Eliza Madrigal: :) Storm and I even had a pab session on this today... decluttering :)))) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Storm Nordwind chuckles Stim Morane: aliveness has a complex dynamic character, with many subfunctions. Stim Morane: Decluttering PaB? Gaya Ethaniel: lol Stim Morane: :) Eliza Madrigal: :) Well, we talked about decluttering and kindness... but you know there is something about rearranging things and organizing... Eliza Madrigal: frees up energy Stim Morane: yes Stim Morane: As I started to mention, it's one of the key subfunctions ... Stim Morane: we can't just keep taking things in ... Stim Morane: OK ... well, so have any of you found some activities that seem to bring out or highlight the kinds of things we discussed last time? Eliza Madrigal: stuff, is often stuff I've deferred dealing with... so there comes emotion, too Stim Morane: yes, exactly Stim Morane: I was somewhat fascinated by my teachers, who had only about as many personal items as you could put in a trunk ... Eliza Madrigal: I'm liking that idea very much! :) Stim Morane: this was not just because they were poor ... Stim Morane: they had obviously made a practice of keeping things within certain limits Stim Morane: very light Gaya Ethaniel: So ... physical things can weigh on us as well as mental things? Stim Morane: we become buried by our possessions Gaya Ethaniel: Perhaps the distinction isn't helpful ... not sure. Stim Morane: yes Gaya Ethaniel: ok Storm Nordwind recalls that emigrating and giving nearly all my stuff away beforehand was a nice freeing experience Eliza Madrigal: yes, and have to find a balance with others' posessions, too Stim Morane: yes Tarmel Udimo: nods Gaya Ethaniel: Why? Tarmel Udimo: in the process of decluttering myself Eliza Madrigal: I can imagine it would be, Storm Dao Yheng: In our small kitchen, we had a hard time cleaning up after a large meal -- had to move one thing to put down another, but then where to put down this other thing? Gaya Ethaniel: I can guess ... Feng sui and all that but please tell us from your point of view Stim. Stim Morane: Yes, Dao, I know the feeling! Stim Morane: Gaya, it all comes down to the issue of direct awareness Cup Of Green Tea whispers: Ah! Steaming Green Tea! Stim Morane: direct awareness appreciates the fullness of things and the emptiness of things, and is also immediately expressed in our actions Stim Morane: without direct awareness and its expression, we acquire but don't see and don't "empty" Stim Morane: we leave no room to live Eliza Madrigal: Hmm, nods Tarmel Udimo: nods Stim Morane: we possess but don't appreciate Gaya Ethaniel: Is it like similar to me registering things by senses even without intention, hence reducing space? Stim Morane: we are hindered by things that do have a value but whose value is not appreciated and acted upon Stim Morane: Gaya, there are many possibilities. Storm Nordwind: And these are "things" can be other than material objects too Stim Morane: I'm basically talking about immediate appreciation, action, and moving on ... Tarmel Udimo: agree storm Gaya Ethaniel: ok Stim Morane: yes, Storm Stim Morane: Ideas, notes, book entries, commitments, ... Gaya Ethaniel: ok Stim Morane: Not that I'm any good at what I'm talking about ... :) Eliza Madrigal: :) Stim Morane: But it is part of the overall understanding of direct awareness Tarmel Udimo: we do our best:) Gaya Ethaniel: So respecting limit and helping ourselves along ... Stim Morane: yes, Tarmel ... I hope that can someday be said of even me. Stim Morane: :) Tarmel Udimo: how can it be otherwise Stim Morane: it's all about expressing reality ... Stim Morane: reality doesn't have clutter and isn't encumbered Stim Morane: you could follow Eliza's experiment with a similar one of your own. Tarmel Udimo: ( I meant about you doing your best:) Stim Morane: And then please come over to my house too ... :) Gaya Ethaniel: I like getting things in order, throwing things out/away ... I understand it but atm, it's a bit confusing how that has anything to do with reality. Stim Morane: So what about aliveness? Any other observations? Stim Morane: oh, Gaya, this is interesting Stim Morane: You're saying you don't feel being boxed in by clutter? ANd that that feeling doesn't constrict your awareness and appropriate action towards others? Gaya Ethaniel: I does affect me yes. Stim Morane: Does it affect your "reality sense", your engagement with reality? Gaya Ethaniel: Well, I never go too long without tidying up ... so can't be too sure. Gaya Ethaniel: Brought up that way. Stim Morane: ah Stim Morane: OK Eliza Madrigal: our minds get quite cluttered too... with little loops of thoughts Gaya Ethaniel: More room to breath, think ... when it's all nice and tidy :) Gaya Ethaniel: More productive ... etc Storm Nordwind has moved house many times (over 40 "permanent" addresses). I found that in my attic were boxes of things that I only ever looked at each time I moved!! Needless to say, this time I was ruthless, and they've gone forever. :) Stim Morane: Eliza, yes, the same point applies on that level. I think Storm implied this too. Stim Morane: :) Eliza Madrigal is learning to be lovingly ruthless Stim Morane: Direct awareness is ruthless, in a sense. Stim Morane: So what about "aliveness"? I'm still chasing that point ... I'm hesitant to suggest formal exercises, but I will if you wish. Calvino Rabeni: Connecting with environment aound seems part of aliveness Stim Morane: yes, Calvino Stim Morane: that is a crucial aspect of the issue Stim Morane: have you been a boy in the trees at some point? :) Calvino Rabeni: :) yes Gaya Ethaniel: What is 'a boy in the trees'? Stim Morane: a Calvino novel Gaya Ethaniel: I mean :) What does he do? Stim Morane: he stays there Stim Morane: we are not literally in the trees, but in another sense, we are in more of Nature than we usually explicitly appreciate Stim Morane: anyway, it's the contextual issue that Calvino raises, and it's important. Gaya Ethaniel: So ... how does human nature fit into all this? Calvino Rabeni: The idea of Nature as a getaway is romantic Stim Morane: the "human nature" is another thing to cultivate, to find within ourselves, and to express actively in life Calvino Rabeni: But not where we live Stim Morane: Yes, Calvino, we don't need that romantic aspect Calvino Rabeni: Here / now can be primordial Stim Morane: yes, it Is Stim Morane: Here's an exercise for aliveness: Stim Morane: pick a day when you have a couple of hours free ... Stim Morane: I hope somewhere in your schedules this is possible Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: when the time comes, just get a sheet of paper, and write out a hundred words on how your life seems to you Stim Morane: the world, circumstances, your sense of self ... Stim Morane: then put it aside, sit in a comfy chair (not in some formal crosslegged posture), and just settle into breathing. Stim Morane: Spend time just converging on being breathing ... Stim Morane: not a formal practice, not a technique, but just what it actually is, what is actually present ... Stim Morane: and include everything else that arises too, thoughts, emotions, MEMORIES, etc Stim Morane: but stay with the breathing aspect, and let it open up (not be constrained by your ideas of what breathing is). Stim Morane: we talked about this before, in a previous session Stim Morane: but do this for several hours! Stim Morane: you can wriggle around, stand up if necessary, even walk a bit, relax, and then sit down again and continue. Gaya Ethaniel: So start sitting once I spit everything out on the paper? Stim Morane: 100 words, then sit and breath, with little breaks, for several hours. Stim Morane: Yes Gaya Ethaniel: ah ok Stim Morane: THEN get another sheet of paper ... Stim Morane: write out how life, the world, your circumstances then and there, etc seem to you. Stim Morane: 100 wordxs Stim Morane: words Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: then compare the two accounts Gaya Ethaniel: I could cheat by photocopying the first one :P Pila Mulligan: or less by then maybe :) Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: I know ... Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: well, perhaps they won't be identical. Stim Morane: :) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Storm Nordwind: So effectively 3 exercises Stim Morane: Look at the differences. Stim Morane: Yes, three exercises, really Stim Morane: Consider the differences carefull Stim Morane: carefully Gaya Ethaniel: Anything to remember during writing? Would be like meditating as well? Stim Morane: just write Gaya Ethaniel: ok Stim Morane: no promeditation Stim Morane: write from how you feel in each case Stim Morane: then describe the differences to yourself ... Stim Morane: this is basically another exercise ... articulate the diffs Stim Morane: then drop it all for the day and go have fun Scathach Rhiadra: :) Storm Nordwind: You mean we're not allowed to have fun during the exercises? ;) Eliza Madrigal: :) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Stim Morane: you have what you have, what you see there Stim Morane: that could well be very fun Stim Morane: but it might also be very sad, or uncertain, or angry ... Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: we are usually lost in the story of the ordinary sense of self, and have basically no connection to our living natures. Stim Morane: this can be regained, a little, even in this one several hour session. Stim Morane: with some care about being explicit re what you were, then shifted to, diffs etc Stim Morane: this is not a meditation practice in the ordinary sense. Stim Morane: Clear enuf? Eliza Madrigal: yes Gaya Ethaniel: yes Scathach Rhiadra nods Calvino Rabeni: good Stim Morane: it's a one shot deal Stim Morane: then, of course, please come back. We need to chat ... :) Gaya Ethaniel: heheheh Stim Morane: I want to talk to the "living being" in you. Eliza Madrigal: :) Gaya Ethaniel: See you in a few years time for that Stim :P Stim Morane: yes, that''s fine, Gaya. idanthology Sandalwood: interesting...could i ask what the general trend of the differences were when u did this exercise, stim? Stim Morane: :) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Stim Morane: idanthology, do you have some suspicions re this? Gaya Ethaniel: lol idanthology Sandalwood: after a bought of meditation...more @ peace, a bit more comfortable w/ the world & how to manage it? Stim Morane: yes, possible ... Stim Morane: but what I'm angling for is a new take on what you are. Stim Morane: this is different from a new experience, it's a new discovery of what is there, usually covered over. Stim Morane: the clutter gets in the way Stim Morane: the clutter even redefines "living nature" Tarmel Udimo: by dumping the personality or thoughts we have about ourselves we can access more freely the 'authentic self' Tarmel Udimo: or living nature Pila Mulligan: another aspect of this exercise may be having a particularly signifcant insight during the sitting/breathing time Tarmel Udimo: yes when connected to the less cluttered self Stim Morane: Tarmel, you are free to go that route, but I'm only asking for a chance for the living nature to emerge ... if you also want to dump a few things, fine Stim Morane: Yes, Pila Stim Morane: this is very basic stuff I'm talking about ... Tarmel Udimo: OK my misunderstanding Stim Morane: but most human beings will never do it Tarmel Udimo: I thought that what was happening during the first exercise Stim Morane: Tarmel, no misunderstanding Calvino Rabeni: basic is good Eliza Madrigal nods Stim Morane: I doubt that you would ever really misunderstand me, Tarmel. Stim Morane: :) Tarmel Udimo: hehehe Gaya Ethaniel: wow ... this is basic?! *sigh* I feel very thick. Stim Morane: so I'm descrbing a basic one-time practice, yes. Stim Morane: very basic Stim Morane: in several senses Stim Morane: but you actually HAVE TO DO IT Stim Morane: :) Calvino Rabeni: : u say tat everytime :) Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: it's not about using up your time with "practices" Storm Nordwind: Zie homeverk gestapo knows ver your guardian pot iz Gaya Ethaniel: Do you really think Stim I will be able to see something emerging from one-time practice like this? Stim Morane: it's about encouraging you to dedicate your time to what you are ... Stim Morane: Yes, Gaya Gaya Ethaniel: ok Stim Morane: you will see something that I, at least, would value greatly. Eliza Madrigal: stirring the embers Gaya Ethaniel: I am looking forward to doing it but would be nice to have less doubt :) Stim Morane: Of course, I'm notoriously easy to satisfy. Gaya Ethaniel: ok :) Tarmel Udimo: grins Stim Morane: so if you don't like it, give it to me. Gaya Ethaniel: ok Stim Morane: it would be fun to see some of those little 100-word pieces too ... Stim Morane: but you can keep them private if you want. Tarmel Udimo: that could be opeing a huge whirling pot Stim Stim Morane: yes, I know. Stim Morane: If you get swallowed up, call me. I'm in the phone book, probably. Tarmel Udimo: hahaha Eliza Madrigal: hahaha Gaya Ethaniel: :) Storm Nordwind: Look up "maelstrom" :) Stim Morane: :) Tarmel Udimo: hahaha Eliza Madrigal: :))) Stim Morane: OK, almost time to go... Tarmel Udimo: nice to have a good laugh in the moring to start the day:) Stim Morane: questions, extreme objections? Tarmel Udimo: *morning Stim Morane: yes Tarmel Stim Morane: when you finish the little exercise, pass results on to Pila and he will grade them Eliza Madrigal: :))) Pila Mulligan: alll A + Stim Morane: :) Tarmel Udimo: :))))) Gaya Ethaniel: :) Calvino Rabeni: Pila will do more than that :) Stim Morane: Yes. Tarmel Udimo: :) Stim Morane: :) Stim Morane: OK ... that's it. Stim Morane: See you next time! Eliza Madrigal: What a nice session, Thank you Stim. Thanks everyone, too! Pila Mulligan: bye for now Stim Gaya Ethaniel: Thank you :) Tarmel Udimo: nice to see you Stim, Stim Morane: bye everyone! Eliza Madrigal runs back to chores Scathach Rhiadra: good night Stim, thank you:) Eliza Madrigal: hehe Stim Morane: Nice to see you, Tarmel Tarmel Udimo: bye idanthology Sandalwood: later...take care, y'all Dao Yheng: have a good evening! Tarmel Udimo: bye for now all...... Timbo Quan: bye all Calvino Rabeni: Bye T Pila Mulligan: bye for now Gaya Ethaniel waves. Scathach Rhiadra: good night all:)