Actually the character is not dead, he is "Incapacitated", when you try to shout a red message shows up that you cannot do that action while "Incapacitated". Obviously the character can't be brought back from the dead because that is impossible but if the character has just been "knocked out", "K.O.d" or as SE put it "Incapacitated" then you can be revived or brought back to consciousness.

#skillgannoncaitsith,
Posted:Mar 17 2005 at 12:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok heres the deal i have alot of playtime on {caitsith} and i am tryn to hunt nm's and am always beat on voke i need tips to be faster can anyone help i know the nm macro as well but it doesnt help if anyone has huntn tips i would gladly send u gill :)[b][/b][Yellow][/Yellow]

ok heres the deal i have alot of playtime on {caitsith} and i am tryn to hunt nm's and am always beat on voke i need tips to be faster can anyone help i know the nm macro as well but it doesnt help if anyone has huntn tips i would gladly send u gill :)

ok heres the deal i have alot of playtime on {caitsith} and i am tryn to hunt nm's and am always beat on voke i need tips to be faster can anyone help i know the nm macro as well but it doesnt help if anyone has huntn tips i would gladly send u gill :)

WHMs are not unwanted in PTs but you don't need them. All the PTs I had the few days ago where without WHM (I'm SMN56/WHM27 now).

Normally setup was NIN,RDM(or BRD),SMN,THF,DRK (or DRG),BLM

First of all on this range you need Dispel to kill the **** mob buffs. A WHM cannot do that. Second thing is with Hastega from SMN the Nin can normally keep his shadows up easily and I can share the (very little) curing with the RDM or BRD plus Refresh/Mage's Ballad is more effective.

I think Raise II for RDMs would press the WHMs even more in some off-position. So my opinion is: If the RDM should get Raise II give the WHMs Dispel at least

1) dispel is a dark magic spell 2) just like Haste, Bard have Refreshga, Bards have Dispel, Bards have Hastega, Bards have Reraisega 1.5, SMN have Hastega, SMN have Dispel...

the way I see it our biggest opponents are SMN and BRD. And BRD already get picked before RDM.

WHMs are not unwanted in PTs but you don't need them. All the PTs I had the few days ago where without WHM (I'm SMN56/WHM27 now).

Normally setup was NIN,RDM(or BRD),SMN,THF,DRK (or DRG),BLM

First of all on this range you need Dispel to kill the **** mob buffs. A WHM cannot do that. Second thing is with Hastega from SMN the Nin can normally keep his shadows up easily and I can share the (very little) curing with the RDM or BRD plus Refresh/Mage's Ballad is more effective.

I think Raise II for RDMs would press the WHMs even more in some off-position. So my opinion is: If the RDM should get Raise II give the WHMs Dispel at least

hmmm i wonder.. now that they have divine viel could raise work as an aga? like if you are a whm and all of your party dies except you somehow and you used divine seal raise? would it work as a raiseaga? that.. would.. be.. uber cool

If you give RDMs Raise II, WHMs will get even fewer parties, and there will be A LOT less Raise IIIing going on.

Vicious cycle, people. Give the game's balance a little more trust.

that is almost the only argument used in the "don'tgive RDMes Raise II" argument.

Seriously, how many times have you invited a WHM to the exp party because he/she have Raise II? Once RDMes got Raise at lvl 38, did you stop getting invites?

WHM is a healer job. No one does the job as good as a WHM. You invite a WHM to the party to be main healer, not main raiser. Giving RDMes Raise II at lvl 75 really wouldn't change much end-game. it would, however, help reduce the time to get 64 people up and running in Dynamis since too many refuse raises.

RDMes CAN act as main healer, but a pure WHM will always perform better. I have acted as main healer many times at 70+, but I have to admit. WHMes do a way better job then me. Giving Raise II to RDMes at 75 wouldn't do a squat to the game-balancing. So why not is my question?

And don't come with the only argument you can think of, which is probably "If you give RDMs Raise II, WHMs will get even fewer parties, and there will be A LOT less Raise IIIing going on." sicne that's the only argument I have ever read, written in 100 different ways.

And now to my next question;

Quote:

and there will be A LOT less Raise IIIing going on.

wtf? why would less "Raise IIIing" happen? People will still prefer Raise III over Raise II. Atleast it's an original argument, although a pretty bad one.

I play as a WHM and i think giving rdm raise 2 would be a great idea even though I think the lvl of that should be at more like 50-60 area. This has many pluses to it even though some people dont see it.

1. It encourages more people to go into a job that is already understaffed. 2. It will give more WHM relief when people are looking for a raise 2 specifically. 3. It'll make mass player kills on high lvls faster to clean up.

those are just a few reasons, find your own. And as Demonsteel Scholar scholar said, don't whine about not being able to get a pty as a WHM. if you cant find a pty, you must really suck because they are not hard to find for a whm, every party needs one.

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If demons really had a voice, it would speak of there bliss. So when ****'s fire calls, I am called Demon Bliss.

wow anyway you work it out IT DOESNT WORK even using variable YOU CAN NOT SOVLE THE QUESTION USING MATH i just though i would say that before i go crazy listening to you guys ramble on about fake math to make you guys look smart but you dont you look stupid and i bet you guys are older than me to with less smarts:P

Just thought I'd point out the lack of puncuation and your misuse of the word to (which should have been too).

wow anyway you work it out IT DOESNT WORK even using variable YOU CAN NOT SOVLE THE QUESTION USING MATH i just though i would say that before i go crazy listening to you guys ramble on about fake math to make you guys look smart but you dont you look stupid and i bet you guys are older than me to with less smarts:P

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i am a Samurai always have been always will be if you see me lvling another job it is only so that i have my jobs lvled.

That's got to be the most retarded "arguement" I've heard all week. Even after spending hours on AOL political forums.

Since when are white mages EVER "unwanted"? Many people refuse to stay in party that can't find a white mage. What difference would it make to give red mages raise II? Please think before you waste space on this site.

Yeah but remember the days of the old Final Fantasy games where cures and phoenix downs would kill undead bosses instantley? Man, I remember learning about that and going, "Wait, that can't be right..." but you never argue with a helpful hint right? To bad they really made this game tough. Then again, it's about time they did.

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---||The oath of a Pal||--- "When everything has gone wrong, I will still be here, standing strong." ~ Me

"What we did yesterday shaped today. What we do today shapes tomorrow. Live each day as you would want it forever." ~ Me

LOL, I like that. Anyway, yeah, using Raise to kill even the most fiercesome bosses in FF was great... especially the Ghost Train in FFVI... that was fun. >.< Ooooh.. scary ghost train.. oh look .. Phoenix Down. Good night.

Sorry but Ghost Train was a cakewalk. If you wanna talk difficult, talk the weapons. Those were the *most fiercesome bosses* and you def could not kill them with a little birdy's feather or a raise spell :p Even with final attack materia linked to Phoenix, some of the weapons were downright hard.

VII was probably the most difficult FF aside from XII if you did everything in the game that there was to do. Also had the best story imo, but I have yet to finish XII, so we will see^^.

a) FF4 was harder than 7 by miles upon miles b) FFX-2 was one of the easiest c) The only thing I couldn't stand about 7 was the fact that the story was both redundant and contradictive over and over d) Her name was "Aeris", thank god you won't forget her, cause some of us don't>_>

i did it one day, lost a little xp on a ds+reraise, the patch i do my usual and i lost the normal... why do they have to patch the good stuff but leave alot of the bad stuff in... *shakes fists like an old man* why!?! ;_;

Yes, DS does work with Regen. It doubles the speed of the regeneration. I haven't tried it in a long time, so it may have been changed in a patch, but that's what it did when I tried it. Question is, why bother? DS has much more beneficial applications than regen, especially with the introduction of Divine Veil. Happy gaming!

The patch that they are referring to happened back when it was still NA PC and no PS2 release yet. Around a year ago. So yes at one time DS did enhance raise 1. Then SE "fixed" it. Would be nice if they brought that back but eh oh well I personnaly haven't eatten an R1 in awhile and no plans ot have to do so in the future.

I learned the spell before the update, but the mp cost didn't go down. It still costs me 150 mp to cast this, is this going to be fixed or am I stuck with a higher mp cost for raise? (along with the rest of the population that learned Raise I before the update)

Just thought I'd pop this up on top relating to the Undead issue that so many ppl are goin' on and on and on and... well you get the idea.

First, let's remember this is not other versions of FF.

Second... You don't die in this game, you are rendered "Unconcious."

Therefor....... wait for it....... Raise does not restore life and would do nothing to the undead. It simply restores you from the game equivalent of a mild coma.

Just thought I'd point that out.

Some other guy who had an interesting theory wrote:

If you base it on the fact that undead feel energy inverted, then it could kill him. Or it could restore him to a natural life, which means instead of a ****** off undead guy yuo have a ****** off regularly living guy. Same thing, except probably easier to kill.

The only problem with this theory is that even if they felt it in reverse... they'd still have to die to have it cast on them and would merely be returned to an undead state from a dead state upon use of this spell. Either way it's never going to happen >:-P

edit:

Someone who doesn't seem to know about the lower priced NPC in Selbina wrote:

Hmm, just like somsone said, the price for this did go up :P Well, i snatched mine right before th patch. 4ktnl to 50 ! :P

undead = not dead = living. The fact that he is not dead is surprising, which is why he is called undead. He is alive and he shouldn't be. He is NOT dead. It wouldn't work based on that. He is alive and raise doesn't affect the living.

If you base it on the fact that undead feel energy inverted, then it could kill him. Or it could restore him to a natural life, which means instead of a ****** off undead guy yuo have a ****** off regularly living guy. Same thing, except probably easier to kill.

It would imply that yes... but the game has conflicting terminology in this case as on one hand you never "die" and on the other hand you have a spell that says it "raises" from the "dead"... either way... see above :P

As I think may have been pointed out already (but I'm too lazy to scroll down and confirm)... Divine Seal works to enhance your next healing spell (Cure, Cure II, Cure III, etc, Curaga, Curaga II, etc)... as Raise doesn't "heal" why would Divine Seal do anything to help it?

There is a key element that everyone seems to be forgetting in their math. Undead aren't alive. Undead aren't dead. Undead are typically a dead creature animated by magic. Since the force keeping them moving is magical and not natural the whole life/death issue is irrelevant. They are either animated, or have had their animating magic disrupted. So raising undead doesn't work because raise is meant to restore natural energy to an incapacitated creature. The undead are full of magical energy, which leaves no room for the natural energy you are trying to restore.

this would be the way it works in other final fantsy. but not this one cuz exp would be to easy and once a whm hit level 25 why would they want to be in a party just hide and cast it at night for an easy 200 exp

A Convenient Scale, for reference:(More Alive -|-|-|-|-|-Dead-|-|-|-|-|- More Undead)

Raise is a positive operator that can only act on a 0 value. Raise(Dead) = AliveCure is an positive operator that can act on any value other than 0. Cure(Alive) = Alive + X; Cure(Dead) = Dead + XAnd the vast ******* of attacks are neutralizing operators that can act on any value other than 0. Freeze(Alive) = Alive - X; Banish(Dead) = Dead + X

This is why your attacks do not add HP to the undead; and why Raise in ineffective against undead. You could make an undead creature dead, then Raise it...but since you can't target dead creatures anyways, it's a moot point.

Lastly: Regardless of the operator, a Dead state cannot be surpassed. You can't Cure something undead to make it alive; nor can you attack something to make it undead.

Edited, Sat Mar 5 14:13:16 2005

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Kayberry uses Steal! Kayberry obtains a Qiqirn Sandbag from the Qiqirn Mercenary. Kayberry uses Flee!... <Qiqirn Mercenary> Why dooo these adventurers keep coming just to steal ooour bags? <Qiqirn Diamantaire> I dooon't knooow...it's not like they're wooorth anything.The Qiqirn Mercenary pulls a Karakul Sack off of a roll and starts filling it with some nearby sand...

ok, now just to add a little to the confusion ... death is the absence of life. because the 'undead' creatures are moving around and having somewhat of a life (assuming we don't go and 'kill' them) it's safe to assume they are actually living, therefore Raise wouldn't work on them anyways ^_^ although I agree, it would be nice to use it against those 'undead' bastards.

So is there no spell, potion i mean that u can carry in your inevtory like, life, full life, phonex down or something so u can bring ur self back to life without help.. and if u do die and there is no one around where do we go to??

the "scroll: re-raise" that WHM's can learn and use over and over again is far different from the "scroll of instant re-raise" that you can buy with conquest points. instant re-reaise anyone can use, it lasts for an hour, then you gotta buy another.... in that hour though, if you die, you get an automatic raise... i recomend not using instant reraise unless you know you are going to die, it's a waste of conquest points if you just do it every hour. plus you can only have one in your inventory at once i believe.

You're right about having only one at a time. It's a Rare/Exclusive item.

Thanks for the info on the duration. I used mine during a battle in which I was sure the party was going to die and we barely made it. I was hoping it'd last for the rest of the night at least but it didn't and it ended up being a waste. I would like for it to last forever (until it actually takes effect) - considering how expensive it is and the fact that you can only carry one at a time.

So is there no spell, potion i mean that u can carry in your inevtory like, life, full life, phonex down or something so u can bring ur self back to life without help.. and if u do die and there is no one around where do we go to??

there is an NPC in selbina that sells this. he is standing on the backside of the cloth guild shop, costs ~5.8k so if your tere its a good deal compared to 7-8k in Jeuno. same NPC also has other high lvl white magic scrolls like CureIII

Standing across from him is an NPC that sells mid lvl Black magic scrolls. Ill try to put a list together next time im there

Raise is sold in Windurst, but you dont have to be any particular rank. I believe it is sold in Windurst Woods at the Federal Magic Reserve. You can also get CureIII and other spells from around lvl 20 to lvl 40.

They changed this with the CoP patch. And PLDs get it 2x later than WHM because PLDs aren't meant to be healers. They are meant to tank / heal themselves. They have much less MP than WHMs, and probably don't have 150 MP at level 25 XD I kinda forgot, that was 25 levels ago for me.

heh, duh but anyways a lvl 78 PAL can also learn Raise I might want to add that in there (when you are actually able to get to that level, but tht lvl is shown on the scroll. (uyes I know the cap is 70 but the scroll still says it)