Dr. Justin Marchegiani and Dr. Tim Jackson talk about in depth about MTHFR and heavy metal detoxification in this podcast. Dr. Tim shares with us some vital information on the subject. He also talks about external manifestations of internal problems and tells us about the effective therapy techniques such as ART or active release technique.

Know more about the holistic approach at looking at the whole kinetic chain in the body. Listen to this podcast and discover what gives us oxidative stress so we can avoid it as well as how to improve mitochondrial function. Don’t know what methylation is really all about? Don’t worry. Dr. Justin and Dr. Tim got it all covered.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Hey, there! This is Dr. Justin Marchegiani and welcome to another awesome episode of Beyond Wellness Radio. Again, we have a great show in store for you. Before, go to BeyondWellnessRadio.com, click on the Newsletter Signup button and you can sign up for our newsletter and get show updates right in your inbox before anyone else. You can also click on the Questions button and even speak questions live, and we’ll be able to answer it on the air for you.

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Again, we have an awesome show in store. Stay tuned.

Hey, there! It’s Dr. Justin Marchegiani. Welcome back to Beyond Wellness Radio. Today we have an awesome guest, Dr. Tim Jackson. We’re super excited to have him come in. He was just on the Bulletproof Radio podcast a few months ago and he talked about MTHFR and some heavy metal detoxification stuff and I’m really interested to bring some of this information to our listeners. So Dr. Tim, how we doing today?

Dr. Tim Jackson: I’m doing great. How are you doing, Dr. Marchegiani?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: I’m doing great. I’m doing good, really excited to get you on. We have been plain email or Facebook app for the last few months but I am really stoked to get you on today.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Absolutely, well thank you for having me.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Well, thank you.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Now I know you’re a DPT which is a Doctor of Physical Therapy and it’s kinda similar to me. I’m a Doctor of Chiropractic and both of these, you know, fields kind of emanated more from the structural side of things. And we both have taken a lot of time over the last years to decade to really study functional medicine and I’m just curious, kind of your background on how you came into functional medicine and became an expert in your field through the– through the PT world.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, basically, I want undergraduate at Wake Forest University in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, straight off to academic school and I was premed. I took all the classes required for traditional allopathic Medical School. Did very well academically but got into working out and eating healthier and into nutrition while I was there and you know, I did some preceptorship at the medical school at Bowman Gray Medical School in Wake Forest, and you know, most of the doctors said, “You know, if you’re interested in the nutrition and prevention aspect, you know, you may want to consider another route.” But I still had plans to go and get my MD and just kinda do my own thing. In my senior year, I had a major jaw surgery on top of having mono and my health went downhill quickly. I had a huge candida infection which, you know, back then, today candida is all the rage, but back then I mean if you were talking about it and so–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, you know, I went untreated with that for about 2-1/2 to 3 years, you know, extreme fatigue, heavy metal toxicity, gut issues, malabsorption, you know, brain fog, and those sorts of things, and it basically emanated from that surgery that I had. In hindsight, you know, being 20-20, I probably had Lyme, you know, since I was a child growing up in the country in South Carolina.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: After the trauma of the surgery which I was under anesthesia for 8 hours, much longer than it should have been, that probably was enough of the trigger for the Lyme to be opportunistic and to take over my body. So then, you know, eventually about 2-1/2 years later, I found an integrated ear, nose, and throat doctor who treated for candida with probiotics and some just basic supplements that we basically all take now. And I knew I wanted to get a doctorate but at that point I knew enough about functional medicine that I knew I would have a hard time sitting through an allopathic 4-year medical school and you know learning that information, knowing that a lot of it was simply wasn’t true.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and not even that, also a 3-year residency on top of that.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, and I spoke with a friend who was actually a DC and an MD, and he said, you know, if he was in residence, you know, that he would prescribe supplements and you know, they would slap him on the wrist for it. So I decided not to go that route and originally, took about 9 Psychology courses. I was gonna get a PhD in Psychology and be a sports psychologist.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But then I decided that I really like the hands-on part and since I’d already spent a lot of money on undergrad, I wanted to stay close to home for my doctorate program, and I went to the medical university of North Carolina. So the Doctor of Physical Therapy program was 9 semesters, gross anatomy–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Biochemistry, physiology, nutrition, all those things. And I knew all along I would, you know, I was planning on incorporating nutrition, dietary supplements, and some lab testing; that’s what I was doing. But you know, I guess every feel has to have a trailblazer and I said, “Well, why not me?” Because there’s not many DPT, there are a few, but not many doing what I do, but what I found is that a lot of times, external musculoskeletal issues are simply internal manifestations–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Of internal problems or external manifestations of internal problems. So whether it’s a leaky gut, dysbiosis, chronic low-grade infections and inflammation, hormonal levels, adrenal glands, pregnenolone levels, all those play a role in your pain, your perception of pain, and your ability to control inflammation–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So that if you have pain, by definition, you have inflammation. So you know, we wanna look at your hormones and see whether you are in that anabolic state or reparative state or in that catabolic state where you’re breaking down tissue and so that’s–what I notice is coming out of my doctorate program, I worked at a sports performance facility and you know, I would have people, for example, a frozen shoulder and I would find out, you know, they have low thyroid which is kind of a common one for a frozen shoulder. And I would have people with, you know, low back pain that would get better when they’re pregnenolone–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Was optimized. So I started saying, you know, a course for manual therapy is needed to some degree, but you’ll need a lot less of it and less often if you optimize some of the internal factors.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. And I think, well, I’ve done some active release therapy techniques in my clinic here. Some of my imbalance chiropractic patients and I noticed that you’re an ART-certified doc as well.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And in ART, a lot of time can speed up the need to even having to do traditional physical therapy because a lot of times those muscles can be shut down because one of the excess inflammation from the diet and the adrenal glands being shot, but also because of all these adhesions and trigger points that are in that muscle belly. Can you talk more about the ART part?

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, Dr. Leahy developed it and he basically–it’s about creating tension and allowing the different muscular layers to be able to glide relative to one another. So, you know, the force of symptoms, let’s say you have shoulder pain. Well, that could be coming from the wrist, some of the muscles in the wrist. So they really–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Do how to look at the kinetic chain and go over some of the common problems and teach you, you know, the three or four techniques that are best for problem X or problem Y. And the ART, what I tell people is that x-rays and MRIs show muscular trauma–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, if you have a ligament or a meniscal tear or something, it’s gonna show that. But it doesn’t show us, like even if we look at an x-ray of your spine, how the vertebrae got there. So obviously, muscle is attached to the bones, and if we don’t address the muscular imbalances and asymmetries from side to side, you’re creating torsion and your disc don’t like torsion very much.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, you know, the ART really worked on the microscopic level of trigger point in creating the gliding of the muscles relative to one another and allowed the stabilizing muscle to become more active versus just looking at, “Okay, this is a shoulder problem.” Let’s, you know, mobilize the humerus. Well, you have to look at what attaches to the humerus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, exactly. That makes so much sense and I know, you doing the physical stuff for so long, you made the connection with the adrenal fatigue, the pregnenolone, all of these things. These people even what–these work, the soft tissue work or the ART or the PT, they just healed so much faster when you–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Add in the other stuff, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I mean, I would have someone who came in with frozen shoulder and 2, maybe 3 sessions at the most, they would be healed and tradition physical therapy would keep them 3 times a week for 3 months.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So, you know, they–I found that a lot of DPTs they just fail to put together basic biomechanics and they stop and they don’t stop and look at what factors are affecting this joint–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Or, you know, they have the–okay, if you have low back pain, let’s focus on your low back. But the first thing I look at if one has low back pain is I look at hip internal rotation and extension. I look at lat stiffness, the neck, and hyperextended lumbar spine, and I look at thoracic spine mobility. So, you know, you gotta always look at the joints above and below. I think that escapes people a lot, you know, since you can have a top down approach where, you know, if you have a protracted chin that can affect your kinetic chain from there or down below, or if you have an overpronation or oversupination, that can affect everything up to the low back and even their neck.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. Exactly. I like the holistic approach at looking at the whole kinetic chain in the body, it’s great.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I mean, a common scenario I would see would be, you know, people with knee pain and you know, the physical therapist or chiropractor wasn’t really looking at the knee, it’s just the other end of the femur. So, you know, I would have people with knee pain working on glutes, because that attaches to the other end of the femur, and so, you know, you–I think you have to almost, if you’re gonna do functional medicine or physical medicine, you know, look at the kinetic chain as a whole.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I agree and I do a lot of applied kinesiology muscle testing where we’ll test the different muscles and how they’re functioning neurologically by resisting force, by resisting a manual muscle test, and we’ll see things just like eating gluten can shut down someone’s glutes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, and you see that often and then, “Hey, you know, they have back pain or knee pain and then, hey, is that really caused by gluten potentially shutting down the kinetic chain?”

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Yeah, and I hear all the time, you know, people say, “Oh, well, ART here is no blind study.” Well, guess what? Every NFL team has an ART practitioner. That should tell you everything right there because you’re looking at an organization who’s not resource-constrained and they’re picking someone who is ART-certified to be in the sidelines and travel with the team every game because their players benefit from it, and if the team doesn’t have one, the players seek out one because they notice the difference. You know, a lot of people combine the ART with Graston–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which is a little more aggressive.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Or Gua Sha or some of–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Some of those other sound-assisted instrument techniques. But yeah, I mean any sort of inflammation, you know, can contribute to musculoskeletal pain and I know Dr. Alex Vasquez–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Where you have an antigen whether it’s, you know, pollen or a virus passed to an antibody like an IgM or IgG and it circulates throughout the body, it could deposit in the joints or in the muscles–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And that can be a common cause of musculoskeletal referred pain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Exactly. I agree and it’s interesting because, you know, when you–when you follow the money trail, you know, unless you have a hundred million dollar or a multibillion-dollar, you know, industry behind something, it’s hard to find a whole bunch of studies. It really is.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It really is difficult and that’s why you have to look at clinical application where, “Hey, you know, what’s happening with your other colleagues? What are you doing? What’s working?” And then spreading the word that way because you’re just not gonna find studies that tell you taking vitamin C at this dose is good or, you know, certain techniques. I mean, it’s nice to have that but it’s tough because these studies cost a lot of money and if you don’t have a patentable product to then sell afterwards, anyone can sell it and there’s a lot of competition on the open market.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. I mean, it really is and a lot of people just, you know, forget that hormones, good health, everything that happens internally can refer externally and I even see that happen in an integrated functional medicine world a lot of times. “Oh, okay, you have gut issues, here take some digestive enzymes.” Well, digestive enzymes may not be their deficiency.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It could be lactobacillus deficiency. It could be a stomach acid deficiency. It could be SIBO.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Any of those. SIBO is a common cause of musculoskeletal pain as well. And, you know, all those things affect the mitochondria which are the batteries of our cells and if you affect the mitochondria, you basically affect every system of the body. So, I think, you know, if you’re gonna do physical medicine and try to rehab some more and get over aches and pains, you need to look internally just as much as you do externally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I totally agree, and you mentioned the mitochondria, just for all the listeners at home. That’s the powerhouse of your cell that really generate a lot of energy and the mitochondria loves burning fat. So can you talk about just, you know, some simple things or tips or tools or supplements that you use to help enhance your patient’s mitochondrias?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. Well, the first thing I do is actually, you know, the common thing to do if you Google the Internet or talk to someone on the street. They’re gonna say take co-enzyme Q10, take carnitine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And those can be very helpful.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, I wanna know at first is what is damaging the mitochondria because they are so susceptible to oxidative stress. Gonna get a drink of water here, real quick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, no worries.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So they are susceptible to oxidative stress. We wanna make sure that person’s glutathione levels and their superoxide dismutase levels are optimal because those two enzymes, they sit in front of the mitochondrial membrane and if there’s a free radical coming or oxidative stress coming, they take the bullet for it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Have a deficiency of glutathione and a lot of people do or the superoxide dismutase enzyme, the mitochondrias are sitting there like sitting ducks and so you can have oxidative stress from blood sugar imbalances. You can get oxidative stress from, you know, heavy metals. You can oxidative stress from infections and that’s actually called a microbial mitochondriopathy meaning there’s a microbe causing the mitochondria to become pathogenic and so the first thing I look to is trying to raise the levels of those enzyme which you can do with certain transdermal creams, certain liposomal forms orally.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because I wanna protect the mitochondria from any damage that’s going on. Then I wanna look downstream and see what causes are creating inflammation. It could be a latent viral infection. It could be a stealth bacteria like mycoplasma. It could be aluminum, mercury–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And lead. All those can contribute so we wanna make sure that we get those enzymes levels up, that we get out the bad stuff, the metals, heavy and toxic metals, and that we provide–then we can go in and provide the substrates like carnitine and CoQ10, which–I mean you can supplement with those but they’re typically made through a process called methylation, which I know–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which I know we were gonna talk about–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: A little bit later. But methylation helps you–if you optimize it, helps you produce more carnitine and CoQ10, and so, you know, instead of having a supplement, you may be able to improve your body’s own function. So that’s way–one way or a couple of ways of approaching, improving mitochondrial function. A second major way is basically, I call it, mitochondrial rehabilitation.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Cell membrane and so, you know, you probably heard of the supplements, NT Factor Energy, you know, that contain a lot of phospholipids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Most people know that we have cell membranes but the mitochondria actually have their own in an outer membrane and the phospholipids, they’ve been shown in studies after 6 weeks, there’s been a reduction in fatigue by about 40% in people with chronic fatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia, myalgia, encephalomyelitis, you know, all of those types of disorders.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then–

Dr. Tim Jackson: So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Taking those different supplements support? Is that what you just mentioned?

Dr. Tim Jackson: What’s that?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Actually you said they–they had an improvement in the energy in a lot of these different conditions and what were the key nutrients in the support?

Dr. Tim Jackson: It was the NT, specifically the study I’m referencing is on the NT Factor Energy products. There’s a few companies that make them. Researched Nutritionals is one, Allergy Research Group is another. And you take them, you do a loading phase for the first month, which is basically 3 capsules 3 times a day with food. And then after that it’s 1 capsule 3 times a day with food, and that helps to improve the membrane health. So if you can combine that along with the glutathione which you need to raise for many other reasons, and the superoxide dismutase, you’re mitochondria are gonna be rockin’ and rollin’.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, that’s another supplement that provides a reducing agent basically to the mitochondria to help produce more ATP. NAD+ is another supplement. It’s not commonly sold out there but it is out there.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And when you said reducing agent, you’re just meaning these products are allowing to add in electrons to this whole entire energy process?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, so they’re adding in–adding electrons. Okay, and then you mentioned some of the NT Factors stuff and that’s just really all of these phospholipids, right? The phosphatidylcholine?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, the–sometimes they’ll throw in and I’m not 100% sure behind the reasoning–they’ll throw in some probiotics like lactobacillus.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The primary components are those phospholipids.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. So just to break it down for the listeners, we got like our glutathione precursors, right? NAC or maybe even liposomal glutathione and the sulfur amino acids, we have the SOD. We have, you know, glutathione and L-carnitine, but also these good fat-soluble compound to help build that cell membrane up to?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Exactly. Exactly and then I tell people, you know, obviously avoiding exposures as much you can to toxic metals but detoxing metals that you already then I tell people it’s kinda like I never touch anyone for leaky gut.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because by the time you pay for the test, you could have just treated it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And statistically, most people are gonna have some degree of it, you know, at some point throughout the years. So I recommend even clients without any symptoms that once or twice a year, they do a gut maintenance protocol.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And so, you know, the MTHFR, the glutathione, those things we can talk about those. Do you wanna go into those now?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The epigenetic type stuff. I can give a brief overview of that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah. I’d love to talk about the MTHFR because we know MTHFR is this specific SNP that’s involved in metabolizing folate or if you’re taking crappy supplements, folic acid to folate to activated MTHF folate. So we know that’s really important because methylation has a lot to do with our genes, detox, energy production. And also I wanna add that if you’re eating conventional food, especially refined grains that are fortified in folic acid, well, and if you’re one of the 50% of the population, you’re gonna be converting this folic acid into dangerous cancer–potentially cancer-causing metabolite. So can you talk about, you know, what the MTHFR is, why it’s important, and then what does this actually mean to the everyday person?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which is the activated usable form by our cells. It’s a SNP, being a single nucleotide polymorphism.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Mutation. Mutation would be like Down Syndrome, Trisomy 21. A SNP means that within our DNA, we have four letters, A, T, C, and G.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: A binds the T, C binds the G.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: If our body happens to put down the wrong letter in the wrong place, that’s known as a SNP and since all of our genes code for enzymes, it’s gonna affect the function of that enzyme. Does it mean it’s completely dysfunctional? It depends on which SNP we’re talking about, but for example, MTHFR, one copy usually reduces its function by about 30%.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Copies reduces function by about 65, maybe 70%. So you still process some folic acid but you have a lot going up in the bloodstream and that’s been shown to lower your natural killer cells–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So it can predispose either cancer and other immune disorders. There’s actually test you can do for that. But the MTHFR itself is actually not one reaction, it’s over a hundred something reaction. It takes place billions of times per second in every cell in the body. Some of the things that it’s responsible for include the production of glutathione.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s, you know, detox molecule, an antioxidant, it helps with immune function, gut health, thyroid health, it helps protect the mitochondria, and it also is responsible for certain neurotransmitters like serotonin and dopamine–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So you can have a neurotransmitter imbalances or mood issues that are affected by methylation so, you know, that can be definitely be impacted as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s amazing that–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Myelin coating around nerves.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: During methylation. So if we’re not methylating then that’s affected.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And our just overall detox capabilities are affected as well.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So detox, energy production, immune function, a lot of different things, and it’s interesting because all methylation is, is just basically adding a C­–a carbon and 3 hydrogens onto whatever process is happening, correct?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, right, exactly. One carbon atom and 3 hydrogen atoms attached, and you know, we can methylate different substrates in the body. We can methylate hormones, like estrogen to help them get excreted through the bowels. We can methylate neurotransmitters and different substrates. But methylation as a whole is in part responsible for gene balancing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So, you know, if you have enough methyl groups there around your DNA, it “turns off the bad gene, turns on the good genes”. So–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Things are–but genes that we want turned on are things like tumor-suppresor genes so we don’t get cancer. But if we’re not methylating well, it can lead to those genes being active or not being active in this case. So there’s many other SNPs that factor into these pathways.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, there’s thousands and thousands, and I try not get bogged in the minutia, the take home message is that, you know, we’re giving you information about potential hiccups in your biochemistry.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Ways to bypass them either through nutrition or supplementation or exercise or lifestyle changes. And you know, you’re not stuck with that biochemistry if it is aberrant but you know, it can also lead us into directions for further testing. So, you know, just because someone has MTHFR C677T–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Doesn’t necessarily mean they have high homocysteine.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: They can have normal homocysteine, so that gets into whether the genes or SNPs are expressing or not.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay, just to kinda break things down, we have this MTHFR, this enzyme that’s really important in taking folic acid down into this activated folate form, now how important is taking or consuming B12 along with this activated folate.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Generally, the way I layer them in is I start with minerals because magnesium and zinc are also co-factors.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Then I layer in B1, B2, B3, those types of vitamins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Then I layer in lithium orotate because–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Lithium orotate as a trace mineral is needed to transport B12 from the plasma or the serum into the red blood cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Okay, so and it’s also very protective for the brain. Then the next step would be B12 and then finally methylfolate. As far as B12, some of your other polymorphisms may play a role in determining or deciding on which form is best for you.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, methylcobalamin definitely in active form but if you have certain other polymorphisms like the COMT which we won’t talk about too much, but if you have that COMT, you may not tolerate a lot of methylcobalamin. So I typically start those people on adenosylcobalamin, which you know is as well-known or not seen around as much as but as an active form, it actively supports the mitochondria and that’s without donating too many methyl groups.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But if someone doesn’t have COMT, you know, it’s perfectly fine to use methyl B12 with the methylfolate, and even some people with COMT, you know, if it’s not expressing then they can tolerate methyl B12. But you run the risk of–when you overmethylate someone, anxiety attacks, palpitations, things like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Got it. And one of the supports that I typically do with patients is one, they’re on a really good high-quality multi with activated folate in there, but good high-quality B12 as well. And then we run organic acid test and we’ll look at FIGLU or formiminoglutamic. We’ll look at methylmalonic acid and depending where they’re at, we’ll add in typically a sublingual high-quality B12, typically with methyl-hydroxyl and adenosyl combined with the folate. What’s your take on that with adding the hydroxyl in there? I don’t think you mentioned that one.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, hydroxy B12 is good. It’s not an active form.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But it is a form that helps scavenge nitric oxide–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Which one thing I didn’t mention before is that, if you have a lot of oxidative stress and you give that person B12 methylfolate, you produce peroxynitrite–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s a harmful compound, you don’t wanna do. So that’s one reason why some people start producing or feel worse when they start taking methylfolate and B12. But the hydroxy can be good for scavenging the nitric oxide that way.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it may help somewhat with energy, but the adenosyl and methyl are typically the one, you know, more closely associated with producing and increasing energy production.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. And can you just talk about that methyl trapping? So we need that B12 for that folate metabolism. If not, that the folate pools up, right? And we call that methyl trapping. Are you familiar with that concept?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. So basically, you know, in a deficiency anemia, the substrates really in the pathway will halt the cycle from moving but especially B12, you have methylfolate groups sitting there waiting to be paired–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, with another methyl group or B12 group, and the B12 is in short supply or you’re taking too much methylfolate in relationship to B12, and then you know, that produces a problem.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So, you know, you need both of them for sure along with the co-factors, you know they’re all important and you know, I think that pretty much kinda sums up the generalities of the methylation cycle.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great and then you are trying to avoid the cyanocobalamin, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I mean that one is not an activated form, you know, converted into some toxic compounds. It’s really, you know, from my perspective, there’s really no need to use it–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Much of it is cheap, so I try to tell people, you know, adenosyl, methyl and hydroxyl are the one that you wanna look at and go after. But the other thing to consider with methylation is that even if you’re on all these methylated B vitamins and the co-factors, if there’s too much lead in your body–

Dr. Tim Jackson: So even if you’re taking those supplements, your methylation cycle could still be inhibited–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And the most accurate testing that’s out there for looking at the functionality of the methylation cycle is from Health Diagnostics and Research Institute in Germany.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s quite expensive. I think around 400 but it looks at red blood cell levels of all the metabolites. It looks at oxidized versus reduced glutathione, SAM which is S-Adenosyl methionine, SAH S-Adenosyl-L-homocysteine, and that’s the most elaborate test. Doctor’s Data offers the functional methylation test but it only gives you about half of that many markers.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ah, I see. I see and do you do organic acid test as well?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I do. Sometimes people come to me with them, sometimes I order them. But yeah, those can be very helpful, too, in looking at mitochondrial dysfunction and mitochondria blocks and, you know, neurotransmitter imbalances as well as GI dysfunction.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm. And just for the listeners, organic acid is nothing more than the metabolic exhaust of all these various systems in the body, whether it’s B vitamins or fatty acids, or dysbiosis like Doc said, fungus, neurotransmitter, so it gives us another window because if we have a 23andMe which is like, you know, this genetic blueprint which is–which is there but then we can look at how it’s actually functioning in a dynamic type of environment with low nutrients or stress or toxins. We can see how that changes.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. So, wow, this is great because I find a lot of people touch upon methylation but it is very superficial and I think you did a great job, Doc, digging into the individual parts of it.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, thank you. I appreciate that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great! And you talked about heavy metals affecting the whole methylation procedure and we know heavy metals are, you know, lead, arsenic, cadmium, mercury, et cetera, aluminum, so how do you test heavy metals in your office?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Well, the provocation test, you know, is the most accurate.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-huh.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But I get a lot of people who are so sensitive and so toxic that I know if I did the provocation test–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: It’s gonna knock them for loop, because I’ve seen people get, you know, pretty sick from it because they’re detox pathways are closed down and they pull all these metals out of the tissue and then the metals they have nowhere to go, so instead of detoxifying, you’re retoxifying.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But–so what I try to do first is work on gut health. You know, when we talk about detoxification, we hear about phase 1 and phase 2, and those are certainly important but there’s also phase 3, which is transport out of the body with OAT, cMOAT, different organic transporters.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And if there’s gut inflammation or dysbiosis–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That blocks metals from being detoxed through the stool which most people don’t know that most of your heavy metal should–in a healthy body come through the stool. When there’s inflammation or dysbiosis in the gut, it shifts the stress to the kidneys. So then the kidneys have to do all the filtering of the metals. And it also, when phase 3 is shut down, it turns around and slows down phase 2, and then you have a big mess because the compounds coming out of phase 1 are highly reactive. They’re more reactive than when you started the process and so you have all these highly reactive compounds just sitting around, ready to damage tissue, ready to damage organs, and just create mayhem within the cell.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, and I know this is kind of a controversial topic, but we see it with some patients with vaccine issues especially the aluminum is that if, you know, someone hasn’t had their gut formed in that first 6 months to a year and it’s still somewhat leaky, and we’re removing such a significant percent of maybe these metals via the gut in the digestive tract and it’s not fully formed, this could potentially cause some reabsorption of these metals?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-huh.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, when you’re–if methylation is not open, glucuronidation which is another phase 3 reaction or assimilation, if your glutathione levels are low and you just kinda pull out the metals with these chelating agents and, you know, you’re not sure where they’re gonna go and mercury is like lipophilic, so it likes to get into the brain.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it’s hard to get out of there. You know, I’ve been off and on using the Dr. Chris Shade protocol the past few years, where you know he starts with the gut and binds metals in the gut, and then he has a proprietary blend of herbs and nutrients that support phase 1 and phase 2 detox along with vitamin C and liposomal glutathione. So that’s kinda the way I go about it and I also tell people that, you know, one way of simply detoxing metals is replenishing all your good minerals–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because metals like mercury bind to the same enzyme sites like zinc. So if you take zinc and you react to it, you’re probably not reacting to the zinc, maybe you’re reacting to the mercury you kicked off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right and also selenium is the big one, too, with mercury as well, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So selenium is important for thyroid health and it helps with the production of glutathione. It helps, you know, in detoxifying mercury, aluminum, et cetera. With aluminum, Dr. Chris actually, I think he’s in Oxford, he recommends ortho- salicylic acid which he recommends in mineral water form.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But you can also get in a form called Biocell and that’s supposed to help lower your aluminum levels, but what people don’t understand a lot of times about metals is that, you know, the study may come out or you may hear on the 6 o’clock news, “This level of mercury is perfectly safe.” But how many people actually have just that level of mercury? Hardly any. And then when you look at that on top of the other metals, they have, one plus one equals ten. So they’re very synergistic and people don’t realize that these trace amount they think are safe are not actually trace amounts.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right. Right and there’s also that whole idea of the lethal dose. So how that works is imagine you have a hundred wraps, they increase the level of mercury that it takes to just kill 1 out of 100, so 1% die, and then they do that same thing with lead and they amount that it takes to kill 1%, so 1 out of 100, so 1 dies but then when you gave the–100 new wraps, the 1% dose of the mercury and the 1% dose of the lead, it killed all of them.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: All 100.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right. Exactly. So yeah, I mean that’s what I tell people, you know, one let’s try to optimize your methylation and glutathione levels.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: We can’t let them in a bubble. Two, you know, a couple times a year, it may be worth doing a few rounds of chelation–

Dr. Tim Jackson: One thing that confused me earlier on in my career was that I would see people with high heavy metal levels and they would go in for IV therapy. Their levels wouldn’t drop and I figured out it was most likely two things. Inflammation that was inhibiting the detox process and that–I mean, that’s probably the main one, it’s inflammation inhibiting the detox process.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But you know, if you have a lot of inflammation going on, no matter whether it’s coming from a gut issue or–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: A systemic viral issue. That inflammation can really inhibit the detox process. And the other thing is if there’s inflammation–the second factor–is if there’s inflammation in the gut, like we talked about with phase 3–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That can decrease your ability to detoxify metals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ah, I see.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Most people don’t realize that the gut is really important in terms of detoxing metals.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Mmm. And is it possible that there was just a lot more metals than you first got a window into on the first challenge test? Is that possible scenario?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Multiple rounds and you know, you would think, “Oh, wow, if anything is gonna get rid of this, it’s gonna be this powerful IV.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But I have a lady that our levels of mercury and lead were really high and she did 3 months of the Quicksilver Scientific products and they’re down to about just 10% of what they were.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow! That’s great. Yeah, I take a very similar approach. I don’t touch metals until the gut is fully working because of so much–because of the reabsorption that can happen and typically I use a combination of the minerals, DMPS, and also binders like citrus pectin or Pecta-Sol or–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Or algaes and such, so then you get the binders, you get the minerals, and then you get a little bit of chelation compounds, but again, I always–because I’ve had mentors in the past, Dr. Michael Lebowitz, a couple of others that have gotten incredibly sick where they got disabled because of doing chelation therapy. So it’s something you wanna work with a functional medicine doctor like Tim on.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, metals, you know, we forget, you know how much dysfunction and mayhem they can cause inside the cell and you know, there’s homeopathic ways to detoxify and I haven’t used many of those, but I mainly use nutrients that support, you know, phase 1, phase 2, and phase 3 and optimizing gut health obviously, and then replenishing your magnesium, your zinc–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. That’s good and the test that you recommend again, was that the test by Quicksilver? Was that the porphyrintest?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Quicksilver offers what’s called a Mercury Speciation Test where they look at ethylmercury, methylmercury, and I forget the third one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And it show–it tests blood, urine, and hair I believe and they compare the three.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So I don’t think they really look in the other metals. I think it’s primarily mercury.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: The provocation test, Doctor’s Data has one.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yup.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And you know, it looks at all the metals–aluminum, lead, arsenic, tin, mercury, all those things and can give you an idea. You know, there are people who use hair metal analysis which I’m not an expert on, but you know, I think it can be good to show some ratios. But I do know, I’ve seen studies where kids on the autism spectrum, we know they’re total body burning mercury is high but hair level is low, so that means they’re not excreting it.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I’ve seen that before. They had that study back in the–in the early 2000s and I know the conventional medicine community came out and said, “Hey, look! Mercury is not a problem. Mercury isn’t an issue.” And they kinda used that as to say that these metals aren’t really driving any autistic-like symptoms, but we know that part of having hair and pushing metals out in the hair is a means of detoxification. So it kinda fits in because if you can’t detoxify, you may not push it out in the hair, and I know I think when Dr. Boyd Haley repeated that study, they tried doing it via challenge test.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Like they talked about and they saw the metals went to the roof on that.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, right, exactly. Yeah, I mean, they set the studies up to kinda, you know, cherry picked that ones that support their argument but, I mean, it’s only common sense that, you know, mercury, especially in kids whose blood brain barrier and nervous system isn’t fully developed yet is damaging and then, you know, people say, “Oh, they took out the thiomersal.”

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Thiomersal, yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah. But the bottom line is say I did an aluminum.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Aluminum has been connected to Alzheimer’s, cognitive impairment, immune suppression, a lot of different things, so I’m not really sure that the aluminum is any better.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, and I’ll go out there to say that taking a hepatitis B vaccine which is the first vaccine given within the couple hours of living or life for the baby–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: It’s a total useless vaccine for anyone in the first world country. The vaccine policies from hepatitis B, they all came from third world countries where there was poverty and drugs and prostitution, and any women that’s pregnant, they’re already having full spectrum STD panels before they even get pregnant or while they’re pregnant. So to give your baby a Hep B vaccination for basically a sexually transmitted disease is pretty useless and is just coming with met–first couple hours of birth and it can really put a big stress on the body. So if gonna look at anything, definitely look at that Hep B vaccine.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, absolutely. Yeah and it can be, you know, it’s a threshold concept.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, you can have gut infection. You can have some systemic viral issues. You can have methylation deficiency and then that vaccine is the last stressor that kinda puts you over from subclinical to clinical where you know, before you were functioning, you had these stresses that you probably weren’t aware of and then this last one kinda puts you over the edge.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah, I think that’s–I think what you said is you’re looking at like the MTHFR, you’re looking at COMT, you’re looking at the mother’s toxic burden, you’re looking at their gut health, and you gotta look at everything in conjunction. You can’t just look at one factor like a vaccine or one factor. You gotta look at everything in conjunction before you make that decision.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right, right. Exactly and it’s all about timing. I mean, as cliché as it sounds, I tell people it’s about–it’s kinda like dating. It’s all about timing.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Those people need supplements. It’s not that they don’t need certain supplements but it’s all about the timing and the dosage and the combination when it’s taken, et cetera. Because you know, if we just went in and someone is having a bowel movement once a week and we gave them IV chelation, they’re gonna get really sick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because they’re just redistributing, retoxifying the metals in their body, and that’s obviously not good and, you know, like I said before, too. The gut health is just so important because if they’re stressed in the large or small intestines, then the workload is kinda shifted to the kidney and that’s one reason why you see such abnormal, glomerular filtration rate and things like that these days.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right, that makes about–that’s makes so much sense. So, Doc, would you agree that the genetics loads the gun and the environment pulls the trigger?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, yeah. I absolutely would and some of the research I’ve read and I’m not really sure how they did this out because it’s been a while since I’ve read it, but PTSD is one example of where methylation, methylated gene got turned off–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Or you know, the methylation reactions were undone or prohibited.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And that can last up to 4 generations. So even though you’re not passing on necessarily a physical SNP all the time, the happenings of what you experience, whether it’s, you know, poverty or rape, or–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Right.

Dr. Tim Jackson: That can last up to 4 generations, so there’s an transgenerational effect and the genetics definitely loads the gun and environment pulls the trigger, but we also have to remember that–I read this study I think in 2012 and they looked at 8 or 9 different cities in the US, and the average on vocal chord between 200 and 250–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Odd.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Found carcinogens. So we have those known carcinogens on top of some viral infections that the mother probably had she didn’t know she passed on combined with vaccine, combined with overuse of antibiotics, and then we wonder why kids are sick.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Wow. Wow! So we’re gonna just take this and we’re gonna go right into a kind of emulating day Dave Asprey and how he ends his podcast shows and I’m gonna ask but you can’t say the exact same 3 things that you said on his show, but I wanna take that kinda what we just talked about here and really bring it in because people are like listening to this–they’re probably like overwhelmed like, “What the hell do I do now?”

Dr. Tim Jackson: Right.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: So looking at all the things, what are the three most powerful things based on what we just talked about, that someone could do right now that’s actionable to help improve these–these items?

Dr. Tim Jackson: As far as just overall health or methylation specifically or just–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Methylation specifically, one thing they can do is take a broad blend of antioxidants.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Anything from proanthocyanidins.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: You know, vitamin C, glutathione, boswellia, any of those antioxidants because the more we can lower the oxidative stress, the better the methylation cycle will work. And we also wanna lower it because we don’t wanna give B12 and methylfolate, and have it produce peroxynitrite which is a harmful compound. So starting with that, I would say would be the first thing for methylation. The second thing would be–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: To correct your environment around you. So lower EMS, you know, try to hardwire into your computer–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Keep your phone in your pocket or if you’re a woman, don’t keep it near in your purse or don’t keep it in your bra or anything like that.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Yeah.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And try to keep all phones and electronics, you know, away from your bed at night, and unplug the Wi-Fi at night, and make sure you’re breathing clean air. You have your house tested for mold because ultimately the SNPs technically aren’t the problem but this information that gets fed to them whether it’s from metals or viruses or mold tells them to turn on or turn off.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: So if we can clean up the environment and the environmental signals that we send to the gene, then there will be less “bad genes” being expressed.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. So that was one, two, and three, correct?

Dr. Tim Jackson: What’s that? You went out for a second.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Oh, I’m sorry. So gave number 1, 2, and 3, right? We did 3 right there.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Okay.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great, great. So I think it was like EMF, clean environment, I think a lot of the high quality activated Bs as well in that first part in the minerals.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Exactly.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And then one last question here. I’ve taken on this question trying to–I’m inspired from Mike Mutzel’s podcast, High Intensity Health, but he ends by saying, by asking the interviewee here. If you were stuck on a desert island and you only could have 1 herb with you, what herb would you want with you?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Probably cordyceps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Ah! What’s kind of the–

Dr. Tim Jackson: Because–

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: But yeah, I love cordyceps. Yeah, okay.

Dr. Tim Jackson: Yeah, I mean, you know, it’s great for energy.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: But it also has great effects on the immune function.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Uh-hmm.

Dr. Tim Jackson: And overall endurance. I mean, I think radiola is also great but I’m not sure how much of an effect it has on immune function, probably has some, but I would say cordyceps.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: Great! Awesome! Well, thanks Dr. Tim Jackson.And can you just give out here, your info, Facebook, your website where all of the listeners can find you at?

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great and you’re able to do Skype consults, so people are–even abroad or outside of the country or somewhere, you know, outside of North Carolina where you’re located, they can still work with you, right?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Absolutely, yeah. So I do different consults, have some clients in I think 14 foreign countries and in every state now. You know, don’t let distance be a deterrent.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: That’s great. Awesome, Dr. Tim! Is there any–anything else that you wanna leave our listeners here with before we go?

Dr. Tim Jackson: Nah, I think we covered a lot, you know. I think hopefully, you know, they took away the actionable tips and didn’t overwhelm them. If you have any questions, you know, feel free to email me if something didn’t make sense that I said. Would be happy to answer.

Dr. Justin Marchegiani: And we’re gonna have a full transcription of the podcast over here at justinhealth.com as well as beyondwellnessradio.com which will just link over. So feel free, you can get the transcription and read it through. I’m gonna read it through a couple of times because Dr. Tim dropped some serious knowledge bombs and I’m looking forward to getting that fully assimilated.