Tudor crown version

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by Martin Grieve

Edwardian Crown version

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by Martin Grieve

This was a civil flag for Northern Ireland, but the status of this was abolished when the Belfast Stormont assembly was closed down in 1973. Thereafter, the Union Flag was made official for all purposes in Northern Ireland.
Stuart Notholt, 11 February 1996

What law was being changed when this flag was abolished?Nathan Lamm 8 July 2004

No law as such was involved. The closing of the Stormont Parliament (and the
consequent removal of official status from the flag of Northern Ireland)
predates the 1995 amendment to the 1993 Regulations (which specifically refers
to "National Flags") by over 20 years, and so the amendment simply did not (and
does not) apply.Christopher Southworth, 8 July 2004

My understanding is that the defaced St George's cross [bearing the red hand,
white star and crown] was the arms of the Government of Northern Ireland and not
Northern Ireland itself, nor the Royal Arms for use in Northern Ireland. This is
why the Northern Ireland flag used by the Unionists [the red hand flag] is no
longer official as that government was abolished and its arms went with it. I
suspect this [issue of royal arms of Northern Ireland] is one of those issues
that has just been fudged because no one wants to face the almost inevitable
furore that would follow an official pronouncement of the arms of Northern
Ireland, or rather of the Royal Arms for use in Northern Ireland. As far as I
can see they should be quartered Ireland, England, Scotland, Ireland with
the hart crest. As for supporters they could either both be the red lion and elk
(as in the old Government of Northern Ireland arms) bearing the two banners, or
they could be a combination of an elk and a English lion, although perhaps it
should be a hart and a Scottish unicorn as the majority of Northern Irish are of
Scots descent rather than English.
The Royal motto of Northern Ireland is "Quis separabit" (Who
will separate us) - a motto that can be taken a number of ways.Graham Bartram, 20 October 2004

Searching for information on the Governor of Northern
Ireland's flag I noticed that on the Government flag (white field, red St George
cross, red hand and crown above) that a few illustrations show a "Tudor" style
crown as opposed to the Edwardian version. Is this a mistake I wonder? This flag
was officially adopted in 1953, and this would seem to indicate that it should
be an Edwardian crown. The flag is a "Banner of Arms" and although the Arms most
certainly would have the Tudor-style crown, surely when the flag was officially
adopted this would have been changed. The Tudor crown I noticed is of the same
style in silhouette as the crown on the Governor's flag depicted in Flaggenbuch (1992),
but with more pearls and a more intricate base.Martin Grieve, 25 February 2005

Although authorized under the Warrant of 1924, I understand that the
Government flag only received widespread use following the receipt of Royal
Assent on 29 May 1953, it follows therefore, that the St Edward's Crown is the
one to show, since any earlier flags (whilst perfectly legal under the Laws of
Arms) were apparently not officially used?Christopher Southworth, 25 February 2005

Although some versions of the flag of the Government of Northern Ireland have
no doubt been made with St Edward's crown, I suggest that any 'correct' version
should have the Tudor crown. As a general 'rule' flags that are banners of arms,
or have seals as badges should not be modified unless the arms or seals are
altered. When the Tudor crown was introduced with the accession of Edward VII,
those flag badges based on seals that included a crown, were deliberately not
modified until after the seal had been amended. The arms of Northern Ireland
were not altered when the St Edward's crown replaced the Tudor crown. Therefore
the crown on the flag should not have been changed.David Prothero, 25 February 2005

A photograph of a flag bearing the Tudor crown, as used in the late 1940's
for the Royal Victory Tour of South Africa, can be seen
here.David Prothero, 1 March 2005

We contacted the College of Arms to see what information they could provide.
William Hunt (Windsor Herald) very kindly took the trouble to check through the
("somewhat dusty") records and to contact the Office of Garter King of Arms, so
was able to report as follows:
"There is no illustration of either the original grant of arms of 1924, nor of
the flag of 1953 on record, there is however, one of the arms as augmented by
the addition of a compartment (ref. 183.321) on 6 January 1971, and this (as you
would expect) shows the St Edward's Crown (which may be seen in Burroughs, 1971
Edition, p. 246."Christopher Southworth, 28 February 2005

In books of the 1950s and 60s the flag is consistently shown with a
squared-off Tudor crown. Subsequently, in
1971: The crown in the arms of which the flag is a banner was re-drawn with a St
Edward's crown. In 1973, the government of Northern Ireland was abolished. It is
therefore I suggest a reasonable generalisation to say that the official
government flag had the modified Tudor crown, while the flag used unofficially
since 1973 has had the St Edward's crown.David Prothero, 1 March 2005

I have produced 2 versions of the Government flag. Both differ only in the
style of crowns which ensign the red hand on a 6-pointed star. Christopher
Southworth sent me his construction sheet to work from and the details are as
follows:
The overall dimensions of the flag are 60 x 120 units.
The thickness of the cross is 12 units.
The 6-pointed star is contained within an imaginary circle of
30 units in diameter, whilst the red hand's height is 15 units.

Christopher's notes also inform us that the flag was designed by Sir Gerald
Wollaston (then Norray and Ulster King of Arms) and was established as a Banner
of Arms by a Warrant of King George V dated 02 August 1924. The flag became
widely used after Royal Assent was given on 29 May 1953, and was effectively
abolished following the Northern Ireland Constitution Act of 1973. There may
have been many variants of both strains here if we consult various Flag books.
Sometimes the Tudor crown appears more elaborate than the version shown above -
this version is reasonably similar to a flag that Bruce Berry has in his
collection from the 1940's. I have used the same crown as Flaggenbuch shows on
Governor-General's flag. In Christian Fogd Pedersons book of 1970, an Edwardian
crown is used, although the star is much smaller.Martin Grieve, 7 March 2005

The reason that the College of Arms could not find the 1924 grant of arms is
that it was designed and made in Dublin by Ulster King of Arms. Neville-Rodwell
Wilkinson, Ulster King of Arms, drafted designs for the flag in February 1923,
and the great seal in April 1923, and held discussions with Northern Ireland
officials in London from January 1924 regarding the coat of arms. The final
design was completed by Wilkinson's deputy Thomas Ulick Sadleir for approval by
the Northern Ireland cabinet in April 1924. The artwork was approved and the
Royal warrant signed by George V and issued through the Home Office on 2nd
August 1924 and registered in the Register of Arms in Dublin.

Source: "Royal Roots, Republican Inheritance - The Survival of the Office
of Arms" by Susan Hood, published in Dublin in 2002, page 120.

The following entry can be seen in the register of Arms in Dublin (GO Ms 111C
"Grants M", Fol. 49):

"Royal Warrant Government of Northern Ireland
Argent a cross gules, overall on a six pointed star of the field ensigned by an
Imperial crown proper a dexter hand couped at the wrist of the second. Given at
our Court of St. James in the 15th year of our reign 2nd August 1924 by His
Majesty's command."

The supporters were granted in the following year, and can be seen on folio 66
of the same volume of the Register. The office of Ulster King of Arms continued
in Dublin until 1943, dealing with armorial matters north and south of the
border until that date. The College of Arms only had jurisdiction in Northern
Ireland from that date.
Laurence Jones, 21 August 2005

The pre-1972 Northern Ireland flag, though no longer used by the Government
there, was used officially at the recent Commonwealth Games in Glasgow, being
carried in procession before the Northern Ireland team, and hoisted at
appropriate medal ceremonies.Kenneth Fraser, 5 August 2014

The red hand of Ulster comes from a legend from one of Ireland's many
legendary invasions. The leader of a war party promised a prize to the first man to touch land with his right hand; so the winner, a left-handed man, cut off his right hand and threw it onto the shore.
James Dignan, 27 November 1995

I have read most of the pseudo-historical works that describe the mythological invasions of Ireland - 'Leabhar Gabhála Éireann',
'Foras Feasa ar Éirinn', 'Annála Ríochta Éireann', and I have not come across such a story.

The most recent and best study of Irish heraldry, Nicholas Williams, 'Armas: Sracfhéachaint ar Araltas na hÉireann'
(Dublin, 2001), contains no mention such a legend either - although the author's 'day job' is as a university lecturer in Irish
literature. This is what he has to say about the origin of the red hand (the translation is mine):

"It is not really known what the origin of the 'red hand' is but it is associated with various Ulster lineagaes. A poetic dispute from
the 16th century is extant which indicates that Síol Rúraí (McGuinnesses) and the northern descendents of Niall Naoighiallach
(O'Neills) claimed the exclusive right to use the red hand as a symbol. It is significant that the red right hand is widely found in
Irish heraldry, especially in Ulster, e.g. in the arms of the O'Neills, McCartans, O'Donnellys, O'Dunlevys, and McGuinnesses. It is
clear that the human hand was a basic element in pagan Irish imagery."

I might add that the ancestors of the McGuinnesses were displaced as rulers of Ulster by the ancestors of the O'Neills in the 5th century.
The fact that they were disputing ownership of the red hand a thousand years later suggests that by the 16th century it was
associated with the province.

Vincent Morley, 2 June 2002

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by Mario Fabretto

A yellow flag with a red cross, bearing a white shield charged with the red hand of Ulster, is a banner of the arms of the traditional province of Ulster. Sometime after Northern Ireland was formed as a separate self-governing entity in 1922 it adopted arms based on, but not the same as, Ulster, with which it is not coterminous (three of Ulster's nine counties being in the Republic). Presumably the Northern Irish arms were deliberately made more "British" with the addition of the crown and the changing of field to make it look like the St. George's cross. Interestingly, when these arms were displayed on a flag badge in the Governor of Northern Ireland's flag, the disc was yellow, not the customary white.

Roy Stilling, 6 March 1996

The six-pointed star represents the six counties of Ulster that make up Northern Ireland. Other Ulster counties are in the Republic. The traditional flag of the province of Ulster is similar to the flag of Northern Ireland, but the field is yellow rather than white, and the red hand is on a white shield rather than a star, no crown.

Devereaux Cannon, 22 January 1998

The Ulster arms, of which the flag is a banner, has an upright red
cross on a gold field - a design derived from the arms of the de Burgos
who were earls of Ulster until the line became extinct. The flag is
commonly seen in the Ulster counties of the Republic. It also has a
certain currency among nationalists in Northern Ireland but has always
been overshadowed there by the Irish Tricolour and is more likely to
be seen as part of a display of all four provincial flags than on its
own. It doesn't begin to approach the popularity which the Northern
Ireland flag has among unionists and so is a relatively uncontentious
and unpoliticised emblem and is used in sports in which Ulster teams
compete.

by
Nitesh Dave, 2 July 2000

The Northern Ireland flag was introduced in 1953 but it is a banner
of arms which had been used by the government of Northern Ireland since
1925. Interestingly, the supporters of the shield in those arms each
carry a banner: one is a crowned harp, gold on a blue field, the other
is the red-on-gold cross of the de Burgos.

Vincent Morley, 24 January 1998

Northern Ireland has its own soccer team and the red-handed flag is used
in all European and world football events. A few days ago the draw was held
for the qualifying groups for the European championship in 2000 and there it
was, used by UEFA (Union of European Football Associations).

Jorge Candeias, 23 January 1998

It seems to my mind this perpetuates an error. I was under the impression
that the Banner of Arms of The Province of Ulster would have had a red left hand
on the shield, as this is what is used in the Coats of Arms of Baronets (and is
often described as the badge of Ulster). I understood that when Ulster King of
Arms was creating the Coat of Arms for the Government of Northern Ireland,
Northern Ireland (six counties) was differentiated from the Province of Ulster
(nine counties) by changing the hand from a left hand to a right hand. It is now
rare to see a representation of the Ulster Coat of Arms, or Banner of Arms with
the left hand.

The official flag of Northern Ireland is the Union Flag. In 1924 the Government of Northern Ireland was granted arms by Royal Warrant and
had the right to display these arms on a flag or banner. This right was exercised for the Coronation in 1953 and assent was given for the use of such a
flag, known as the "Ulster Banner", on festive occasions. The Banner was
designed by Sir Gerald Wollaston, then Norray and Ulster King of Arms; a white flag carrying the cross of St George, with a white six pointed star carrying the
red hand of Ulster in the centre of the cross, the star being ensigned by the imperial crown.

In November 1973 the College of Arms advised that it would be improper to use the Northern Ireland Coat of Arms after the Northern Ireland Constitution Act
1973 had been passed. The effect of this has now been overtaken by The Flags Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2000 which prohibits the flying of any flag on
Government buildings, other than the Union Flag, and in certain circumstances, the Europe Flag, the Flag of a visiting Head of State, or the Royal Standard.David Prothero, 28 January 2002

The Northern Ireland flag (the one that ceased to be official in 1973) is
still used by the Northern Ireland team at the Commonwealth Games.Dean Thomas, 7 February 2006

In 1970 the Ulster Defence Regiment was formed within the British Army to
replace the B-Specials, Royal Ulster Constabulary auxiliaries, who were tainted
with Protestant bias and a reputation for brutality (somewhat like the Black
and Tans fifty years earlier). The UDR were a regiment of part-time soldiers
much like the Territorial Army (reserves) in the rest of Britain. Like the rest
of the Army each infantry battalion was entitled to carry a stand of two colours
- Queen's (Union Jack) and Regimental.

The UDR also became slightly tainted since it was very hard to recruit
Catholics. In 1992 the UDR was merged with a regular army regiment, once again
to help boost its image and reputation. A year previously, as the unit faced
extinction in the form it has known for 21 years, the Queen went to Northern
Ireland to present the first ever colours to four of the nine UDR battalions.

The colours of the battalions are identical except for the battalion number
in Roman numerals in the upper canton. In the center is a circlet inscribed
with the regiment's name in gold. In the circle is the regimental badge, a
rather plain harp (variations of which are common to most Irish regiments)
surmounted by a crown. Around the circlet is a "union wreath" of roses, thistles
and shamrocks (a uniform design for the whole army), the whole surmounted by
another larger crown. The flags look very bare compared to the rest of the army's
which are cluttered with battle honours on gold scrolls around the union
wreath.

An interesting photograph was found at
http://imperialflags.blogspot.com/2009/03/ulster-flag.html, showing the use
of a plain union flag, with a red hand centred, on the offices of the Belfast
Telegraph in Fleet Street (London). The original caption stated "Original caption: Ulster flag in London for Empire Day. An Irish newspaper office in fleet street. London, flew the new Ulster flag for the first time recently. The Ulster flag is the Union Jack with red hand in the centre."
The date is uncertain, but likely early 20th century, based on the use of the
red ensigns as national flags beside this flag.Originally reported by
Laird Keir, 24 March 2009

The Northern Ireland think tank Democratic Dialogue published a discussion paper concerning the controversy over flags and emblems in the province. One central idea in the paper is to hold a design competition to find a new flag for the province. For more details, see the Democratic Dialogue web page. Other reports
were reported in the Belfast Telegraph, Irish News, and ireland.com.Jan Oskar Engene, 21 July 2000

The Stormont Agreement just signed in Northern Ireland contains a provision
for a commission to consider flags and emblems, to report within 18 months.
Here's the text of the provision:

15.A Commission on Flags, Identity,
Culture and Tradition will be established by June 2015 as the basis for further
addressing these issues, to report within 18 months of its being established.
The Commission shall consist of fifteen members, seven of which will be nominees
appointed by the leaders of the parties in the Executive. These will comprise
two members for each of the two largest parties and one for each of the three
next-largest parties in the Northern Ireland Executive, all as measured by their
number of seats in the Northern Ireland Assembly. The remaining eight members of
the Commission will be drawn from outside of government. The report and
recommendations will be agreed by a majority of the overall Commission,
including at least five of the seven members appointed by party leaders. Its
remit will focus on flags and emblems and, as required, broader issues of
identity, culture and tradition, and seek to identify maximum consensus on their
application. In its work, it will be guided by the principles of the existing
Agreements including parity of esteem. As the Commission's work may touch on
expressions of sovereignty and identity, it may consult the UK and Irish
Governments.