I am doing a trip into the Makobe and have to land on Grays Lake because of the Temagami 'Plan'. I was wondering if anybody could give me some info based on recent experience on the condition and size of these two sites. Has anybody been through the portage into Banks (1250 m) in the last season or so?

brianModerator

Post Number: 1304Registered: 02-2004

Posted on Monday, March 7, 2011 - 10:34 am:

It is a well used route so the portage should be fine.

Can't tell you anything about the campsites.

edModerator

Post Number: 964Registered: 03-2004

Posted on Monday, March 7, 2011 - 4:01 pm:

It has been several years since I have been on Grays Lake, but the lower campsite will be available for use.It is a large long rocky outcropping that has a few trees on it but is fairly clear. The upper campsite has a huge fireplace on it, but I have never stayed there.

The last time I was through there was in early May ~ 2004.I was probably the first person through that year and I recall having to clear off a few tree falls, but the portage was useable. If you are planning to go a bit later in the Season, the portage should be clear. As Brian mentions, it is well used and OP is doing regular maintenance on it.

teacherMember

Post Number: 2Registered: 03-2011

Posted on Monday, March 7, 2011 - 6:07 pm:

I'm going through on or about May 18th so I don't think there will be many go through there before that.

irishfieldMember

Post Number: 293Registered: 11-2004

Posted on Saturday, March 12, 2011 - 10:55 pm:

When you say "land".. are you talking airplane? You can land on Makoboe..unless someone has slipped another fast one by us...

Either way if you plan on landing on Grays to stay out of sight.. at least 7 wardens in the park during high season.. I'll hold your hand at tribunal. lol

edModerator

Post Number: 968Registered: 03-2004

Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 4:06 pm:

Teacher: If you are planning to fly in I suggest you check with the Park Super in Finlayson to make sure which lakes allow planes.Irishfield is raising a flag here. Some lakes that were open prior to the Temagami Integrated Planning Initiative (TIP) are now closed to landings. Lakeland Air in Temagami would also know for sure as they would have the appropriate license for landing.

Irishfield, I thought Bercole was the lake for that area. Did that change?

irishfieldMember

Post Number: 294Registered: 11-2004

Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 8:40 pm:

I've lost track Ed. They showed us one thing during public consultation in their draft papers, and then changed what they stated (without notice) when they printed the final TIP. I'm continuing to land where I please and if necessary will take my bumps and bruises at a Transport Canada tribunal backed by the Canadian Owners and Pilots Association lawyers.

irishfieldMember

Post Number: 295Registered: 11-2004

Posted on Sunday, March 13, 2011 - 11:51 pm:

Did some reading.. Makobe is a winter only landing lake now. Trethwey is legal all year long, as is Smoothwater Lake, Solace lakes and the Sturgeon River. Gray Lake, Chris Willis, Florence, Hobart, Katherine and Scarecrow open to commercial operators only. Something I take issue with that someone can pay Lakeland to fly their canoe in there and drop them off, yet I'm not supposed to do the same for my own wife or brother for their canoe trips. I have no issue with Lakeland making money, it's what they're there for. I do have issue with the government restricting access to public land unless the person has to pay to get there.

Reading Teachers post again.. I am presuming he's paying Lakeland or Sudbury aviation to drop his group off.... so I'll let this get back to his questions.

doug_2Member

Post Number: 156Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Wednesday, March 16, 2011 - 7:15 pm:

Longpoint air out of Elk lake used to have some significant fly in spring fishing there (Greys Lake)..with small motor boats... So, it could be busy there sometimes IF they had spring clients there. I guess they are gone now? We used to camp on the site SE mainland. Not a bad site but very buggy in blackfy season. Lady Evelyn River (a few portages away) always seemed to me to be better for Spring blackfies and especially no see ums.... Been on that route many times....from Makobe to LE river and down.

edModerator

Post Number: 973Registered: 03-2004

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 7:08 am:

Threthewey also had a fish camp on it, operated by Longpoint. I recall it using a tent on a pad for accomodation, instead of a building.Probably gone as well. Does anyone know?

doug_2Member

Post Number: 157Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 8:59 am:

The Park Superintendent will know for sure Ed. I recall in the past that Longpoint had tent platforms on one or two campsites on Greys Lake. Then some years ago, in discussion with with Parks people it was decided to have a designated site for them that would not be a traditional campsite. Also it was to be a seasonal (spring fishing only) operation. But after that I'm pretty sure Longpoint pulled out. (I'm not 100% sure of that). IF they did pull out I'm also not sure whether or not that left the door open for another commercial venture of that type on Greys Lake or not? Possibly not? In my opinion the Motor boat / fishing operation was not a very good interpretation of wilderness parks policy for commercial tourism, but because Long Point had a long history of using both Greys and Tretheway Lakes that way, they were more or less "grandfathered" in.

teacherMember

Post Number: 3Registered: 03-2011

Posted on Thursday, March 17, 2011 - 7:27 pm:

Been away for a bit but to clear things up, I am flying with Lakeland and the 'plan's' designated lake is Grays. I used to use Troy Wilson(Long Point/Auld Reekie) but since he sold I haven't been up that way. He used to drop us on Makobe or Banks. To me it kind of sucks to be pitched off in Grays after spending significant $ and then have to hike through mucky carry if you want to paddle the Makobe River. Seems like a lot of control over a few that have little impact with not much worry about the timber harvesting.

I won't get going on that but related to that. Who might I contact on that end (Timber Harvesting) who would have knowledge of the road network near Alexander Lake on the west and Sunday Lake/Cucumber Creek to the east. I would presume one of the managers of companies skidding lumber in that area would have to know how to get in an out of there by ground if one of their workers were injured.I would like to contact someone to discuss a contingency for a non-urgent ground evac. via that network. Thanks for the input so far boys.

brianModerator

Post Number: 1309Registered: 02-2004

Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 9:35 am:

The timber license operator is Timiskaming Forest Alliance. Feel free to give your opinion on the logging. Every voice counts.

Teacher: A quick way to see what roads are in that area is to go to MNR's forestry website.Click on Timiskaming, bring up the most recent FMP (forest management plan) and then click on Maps and look at the Index Map for the unit.You can then access the larger scale maps for the area you are interested in. Having that to look at will help you focus your questions on roads.The Forestry website is here: http://www.appefmp.mnr.gov.on.ca/eFMP/home.do?lang uage=en

doug_2Member

Post Number: 158Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 12:17 pm:

I wonder if Grays was picked as a designated fly -in lake in the wilderness park plan because Longpoint had the OK to use that lake for fly-in for their outpost camping operation? (Longpoint used to use Banks and Makobe too but they had no approved "campsites" on those lakes..) For sure Makobe is a more convenient fly-in lake for a trip down the Makobe River. Maybe Makobe L would have been picked instead of Grays if Longpoint had not been in the picture back then? ( I don;t know) As much as it is contentious with some people, minimizing the number of designated fly in lakes is pretty normal in a wilderness park, in fact some have no fly in access at all. There isn;t even any fly in access in Algonquin Park which is natural environment class park (supposedly a step less protected than wilderness class). I wonder too if the 180 Cesna that Longpoint used became an issue with regulations on flying in canoes and boats? Does that need to be at least a 185 Cesna now to fly canoes commercially? I'm curious about that. I recall that when Lakeland had the 185, they would only fly a canoe over 16 feet with the Beaver. (and a 180 is smaller than a 185).

edModerator

Post Number: 976Registered: 03-2004

Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 1:45 pm:

I flew into Makobe a few times back in the 1970's, but it was not a wilderness park back then.The other thing about Makobe, is that parts of it are pretty shallow and maybe that has had some influence on the decision not to use it as a regular fly-in lake. Just a thought....

doug_2Member

Post Number: 159Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 5:42 pm:

You are absolutely right Ed. A pilot had to know that lake. I landed once in a twin Otter that "brushed" a shoal with one of the pontoons! Worked out OK but it was a big surprise to the pilot...Middle of the lake. The sun was shining so there was reflection off the water....just not easy to see a shoal that day... Trick lake for landing for those who don;t know it well.

grncnuMember

Post Number: 53Registered: 08-2010

Posted on Friday, March 18, 2011 - 8:56 pm:

ed, did you say bercole was/is a fly-in lake? that would seem to be an odd choice as well. as i recall it is very small (beautiful spot though). also, if there is a campsite there, as indicated in my edition of hap's guide, i was unable to find it!!

doug_2Member

Post Number: 160Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 8:01 am:

I have landed in Bercole to start a canoe trip down LE River. I would not want to land there again..It;s a tight landing

edModerator

Post Number: 977Registered: 03-2004

Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 9:14 am:

I have never been into Bercole, but I recall it was mentioned as a landing lake in the original Hap Wilson book. I no longer have a copy of that book, so I can't check it out.

teacherMember

Post Number: 4Registered: 03-2011

Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 9:34 am:

Thanks all for your input. I run a high school whitewater tripping program and to keep the thing alive for 12 years I make sure I have all 'my ducks in a row' as far as contingency plans, etc. With ever increasing scrutiny by Insurance companies I need to continually step up my game. In the end, it is good for everyone involved. Cheers

irishfieldMember

Post Number: 296Registered: 11-2004

Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 4:40 pm:

Teacher.. Darren (Lakeland) will take good care of you. No worries there.

doug_2Member

Post Number: 161Registered: 12-2004

Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 7:15 pm:

Our landing in Bercole Lake was not with Darren flying. He is an excellent bush pilot and knows the area from the air possibly better than anyone. Any doubts about safety; fly with him personally.

irishfieldMember

Post Number: 298Registered: 11-2004

Posted on Saturday, March 19, 2011 - 7:30 pm:

Exactly Doug.. no one keeps a better eye on him than I, as I watch him day in day out and keep tabs on his where abouts from May to October (as he does with me)... whether he likes it or not. Habit when you run your own aerodrome on both our parts. Darren tells me JKT just knows the way through the soup of Temagami, but I'm not that nieve! lol