New and 'creative' moveset/EV spread thread Mk. 5

Metagross and Azelf tend to set up SR rather than Expode first turn. They will then usually be 2HKOed before they can move. I think if you really need that reliable a wish user, then you should not put it in the lead position

I mentioned this in the previous page after seeing an anti-lead Golduck which I realised had the same movepool and inferior stats. This lead is fairly simple, utilising the water-type moves that are so effective against the lead metagame, coupled with a weak priority move to finish off sashed opponents. Basically, this is very similar to Starmie and Empoleon, except that it beats a larger number of leads at the expense of Stealth Rock / Rapid Spin.

Vaporeon can of course provide support to the team in ways that Starmie and Empoleon cannot. Wish and Heal Bell are notable options in this regard, since Vaporeon will certainly be returning later with its fantastic bulk. Starmie also performs badly against some leads like Jirachi, who U-turns out, Aerodactyl, who 2HKOes with Rock Slide or even EQ after LO recoil, and Tyranitar, who survives a LO Hydro Pump almost all of the time and OHKOes back with Payback/Crunch. Empoleon loses to Infernape and other fighting-type leads, as well as missing the OHKO on Tyranitar due to running Focus Sash/Chople berry, and losing to Mamoswine (increasingly uncommon but still.) Oh and Vaporeon is a massive surprise and an embarrassment to your opponent!

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Golduck is faster, has Brick Break to stop screens, and can get KOs on everything Vaporeon can =P

Vaporeon's bulk is the main reason to use this set. It's an interesting lead which can provide a sturdy pokemon to use later on during the battle. If it were me, Wish would be a necessity.

Golduck is faster, has Brick Break to stop screens, and can get KOs on everything Vaporeon can =P

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Golduck's speed grants it very little actually unless you run a timid nature, in which case it can actually outrun Heatran. As for power, Golduck has base 95 special attack and Vaporeon 110 - it most certainly does not get the KOs without running a life orb. Even so it misses out on the OHKO on Swampert with HP Grass and on Tyanitar with Hydro Pump. Without it it cannot OHKO Azelf, or get the 2HKO on Metagross or Jirachi. Brick break is a pretty useless move offensively for Golduck - it doesn't even do much to tyranitar. Are you seriously going to use Brick Break on an Azelf or Uxie? Vaporeon outclasses it offensively and defensively in every regard.

Edit: sorry - Vappy gets those 2HKOs with Hydro Pump + Surf guaranteed. I've been running calcs with Naive, because that gives Golduck a tangible advantage by outrunning Smeargle and Heatran. It does still get the 2HKO most of the time, and can always finish of Rachi with Aqua Jet. Cloud nine is in fact a rather useless ability - against sandstorm leads greater bulk is far superior to sandstorm immunity (it comes back after you switch out.) Damp is also a somewhat useless ability unless the opponent actually wants to explode - what they actually want to do is set up SR. And Empoleon can use Yawn by the way, but it's a bad move with no hazards up. However, I will concede on the azelf point - I rather underestimated the power of aqua jet - quick attack is ridiculously weak. You should also add superior typing to Vaporeon and Golduck on that little list.

And I'm trying Hydro Pump/Hp Grass/Wish/Quick attack, though the accuracy is irritating to say the least.

I might be using the calculator incorrectly, but the result of Hydro Pump against lead Metagross was 51.9% - 61.3% and Jirachi is 48.2% - 56.8%, which are both 2HKO's. Versus Azelf is 90.7% - 107.2% plus Aqua Jet due to the fact the Azelfs almost always carry Focus Sash.

Relax, Brick Break is merely an option in case of a rise in useage of dual screens.

I'm not saying Golduck>Vaporeon, but I'm not saying Vaporeon>Golduck either. Each of the lead water pokemon have their advatages.
Empoleon-Stealth Rock
Starmie-Rapid Spin
Vaporeon-Late Game Support(Wish, Heal Bell, typing etc)
Golduck-Speed and variety(Damp, Cloud Nine, Hypnosis, Encore, typing etc)

EDIT: If you wanted to you could run Blizzard or Icy Wind(max speed on Vaporeon) to beat Roserade(assuming Vaporeon or Golduck make it to the 2nd turn).

Bastiodon's weaknesses aren't seen together too often on the same set so there is a good chance most Pokemon will have only one move that can break its Sub.
Since its offenses are very poor the best it can do is wait for Sandstorm + Toxic to take its toll: Shuckle with better resistances.
Taunt prevents setup, phazing, or healing, Roar for residual damage, Toxic can be used to poison floaters and Iron Tail to have an attacking option.
The latter, which I never used, has poor accuracy but decent PP, 150BP including STAB and a good 30% debuff chance when it connects.

Steel types are obviously resistant to this strategy but Taunt or Torment can help get in a counter safely as long as you're not facing Magnezone.
Also, a number of Steels are commonly choiced and will be forced to struggle every other turn due to Torment.
Obviously, almost anything with Taunt disables Bastiodon completely unless you were lucky enough to have taunted on the switch.

I used this briefly as the core of a stall team (with Taunt) and I was quite OK with it.
It only shares a Water weakness with the necessary Hippowdon and that was taken care of by Roserade who can both set up Toxic Spikes and frighten Water types.
However, Heatran is easily superior unless you are running Taunt over Lava Plume when Bastiodon's bulk can make a case.
[BTW, just realized Probopass can run the same TormentSubProtection but with Pain Split]

So yeah, Now to the strategy.In a double battle send out say something bulky that knows follow me like togekiss, along with smeargle.Make smeargle use Ingrain and Sub while the bulky something uses follow me twice.By this time the bulky something should die(as its the second turn).Now send out Shedinja.Make shedinja use protect and smeargle(with the sub and leftovers+ingrain recovery) now transforms into shedinja while retaining its 314 hp.So voila ,we have a shedinja 314 hp recovering 1/8th hp per turn with protect and sub.Note that this works even if sandstorm or hail is up.

Now pokemon which resist Will-o-wisp like any fire type pose a problem.Therefore the fourth pokemon should be chosen to counter these(which luckily are a few compared to other types).Those that dont resist Will-o-wisp will get worn down by it.

Togekiss has the perfect movepool to be a cleric, with access to Heal Bell, 2 recovery options (depending on if you want to be able to pass recovery), as well as 3 excellent 4th option moves: Thunder Wave, Toxic and Encore.

Thunder Wave: Cripples most sweepers on the switch in. If you use this as your fourth option, you probably don't need to run as many Spd EVs, nor the timid nature. You could probably get away with running enough Spd EVs to outrun max Speed Lum TTar, and then just push any leftover EVs into Def or SpDef, making Togekiss much bulkier.

Toxic: An excellent alternative to Thunder Wave if it is Pokemon such as Swampert, Hippowdon, Gliscor, Vaporeon, and Snorlax that cause you problems. If your main objective is to pull off a DDTyranitar sweep for example, Toxic would be the recommended option as your 4th move, as it cripples most of the common switch-ins to DDTyranitar. Swampert and Hippowdon can then be Toxic Stalled, especially since Togekiss can Roost to avoid much damage from Ice Beam or Stone Edge. Gliscor is more of an issue. It is advised that if you use Toxic, you instead run a 252 HP / 16 Def / 140 Spd EV Spread to outspeed Impish Gliscor by 1 point.

Encore: The given EV Spread of 252 HP / 20 Def / 236 Spd outspeeds Adamant Lucario, meaning you can switch in and encore a Swords Dance, forcing a switch and therefore giving you an oppurtunity to use Heal Bell to clear your teammates of status.

Counters to this set: Pokemon which resist Air Slash/Aura Sphere and do not mind Toxic/ThunderWave really piss off this Togekiss. Pokemon such as SubRoost Zapdos and RestTalk Rotom will wall you completely if you don't run Encore.

Best Team Options: This set is excellent for supporting sweepers such as DDTyranitar and SDScizor, by Toxic Poisoning their main counters such as Swampert and Gliscor. If you use Thunder Wave instead, Togekiss pairs up well with slower sweepers, such as Empoleon, Machamp and Snorlax. EncoreKiss pairs up with pretty much anything, seeing as there are a wide array of circumstances in which you could use Encore. Obviously, if you are using the Thunder Wave moveset, don't use a team abusing Toxic Spikes.

I'm currently testing running more Defense EVs in place of Spd. I'll post again when I get some results on how that works.

Líder máximo

You must be extemely careful when encoring a SD Luke as it may just use extremespeed and always 2hko you (doing a minimum of 60%). So maybe the Speed EVs are not necessary, and you could invest them in SpD or Def with a Bold or Calm nature.

Also note that without thunder wave things like TTar and Rotom will be switching into you almost for free, so you need to support this Togekiss with a TTar of your own and maybe something like Swampert or Gliscor.

First off, for scizor and syther sets, Use Bug bite instead of X-Scissor. X-scissor has 80 power plus STAB and after technician Bug bite has 90 power + stab.

Secondly, Mamoswine.

Tusk

Leftovers/focus sash

Adamant

Ice Shard
Stealth rock
EQ
Avalanche

EV
HP-180
ATK-252
DEF-38
SPDEF-40

This is a combination of my own creation. The ev spread makes Mamoswine bulky enough to survive quite a few hits, yet utilizes his maximum 394 attack stat. He has no speed. But he makes up for it in bulk. This mamoswine will always survive azelf's flamethrower.

After stealth rocks he can dish out a STAB earthquake against anything slow enough for him to go first. Anything faster he can beat with avalanche, gaining double power equalling a physical blizzard attack after reciving damage. Leftovers take the edge of that sting, and if his Hp gets too low ice shard can win him one last horrah.

Infernape is the only counter to this set you can't defend against. If you're conserned with that however you can use focus sash and try to get in an earthquake. Most Lead apes wont be able to kill mamoswine without an EQ retaliation which will take a sashed infernape down to 1 hp.

If you're squimish about Infernape you can use focus sahs to increase your chances slgihtly but with any mamoswine the best counter is a pokemon that can counter infernape right behind Mamoswine, such as Salamence or Gyarados.

If you're squimish about Infernape you can use focus sahs to increase your chances slgihtly but with any mamoswine the best counter is a pokemon that can counter infernape right behind Mamoswine, such as Salamence or Gyarados.

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Lead Infernapes run Fake Out to break the sash, so you will always lose, unless they choose not to use it first, but they have literally nothing to lose by doing it. Basically, I would stick with leftovers and just switch out of Infernape.

The basic problem with that is that while Tusk mamoswine can't beat leadape-done-right, neither can any other mamoswine. Ape will always be faster and without the lead effect the sash will be broken by stealth rocks. So....the fact that ape is the perecft counter to any mamoswine isnt a fatal flaw to this set. It's neutral to the others in that one reguard.

What I offer is a Mamoswine that can easily fit many niches and is one of the most versitile pokemon in the heavily comparmentalized OU tier.

Pretty simple execution, Ttar comes out and most taunters, fearing retribution, will be switched out. This is the turn that t-wave is used. Next comes the set up of stealth rocks and then the roarwaving can begin. Chople berry ensures that if the enemy starts with a strong fighting move (think Infernape with close combat opener) that the TTar will survive and t-wave them, gaining the speed advantage and setting up the rocks.

Most people see Ttar's awesome attack stats, and forget he has a VERy solid defense and special defense. Add the fact that he gains x1.5 special defense in a sandstorm (the above set brings him to 400 spdef) and you have a very solid wall for an opener that many people do not expect.

everyone know how bulky t-tar is but most persons prefer the gimmick choice scarf one, putting a scarf on something like t-tar is like putting a band on freaking blissey. the thing about this set is that like usual taunt royally fuck you up.

Skarm pretty much walls this whole set, and Whirlwinds you away before you can set attack it. Taunt + WW (which not many carry, but its possible) shuts you down. Maybe if you could provide some calcs or whatever than we could see how it does against stuff like Pert, Gliscor, Metagross, and other leads mostly Anti-leads, because they seem to threaten it the most.

Tbh, it seems kinda like a dumbed down version of the ChestoRest LeadTar set.

On the note of Tyranitar, I was theorymoning this set last night in a sleepy late night stupor, so I just want to get some tips on it, and moves that you would prob reccomend.

It kinda looks like an inferior DDTar to me atm, and the only thing it has over it is that it gets to double its speed in 1 turn instead of 2. 228Spe EVs give it 215 Spe which outspeeds SubPetaya Empoleon after an Agility boost (assuming Modest Nature which most run). 252Atk EVs is for max damage dealing. 28 EVs in HP are basically because I wasn't sure where else to put them, so I have some calcs for HP and Def. The main threats to this pokemon are Priority moves since it outspeeds just about everything after an RP boost.

I am running out of space to fit lines in, so yeah, that p much coners most of it, Crunch will KO all ghosts all Pychics take a Sizeable chunk of damage, EQ does shit to everything not named Heatran or Lucario.

Pretty simple execution, Ttar comes out and most taunters, fearing retribution, will be switched out. This is the turn that t-wave is used. Next comes the set up of stealth rocks and then the roarwaving can begin. Chople berry ensures that if the enemy starts with a strong fighting move (think Infernape with close combat opener) that the TTar will survive and t-wave them, gaining the speed advantage and setting up the rocks.

Most people see Ttar's awesome attack stats, and forget he has a VERy solid defense and special defense. Add the fact that he gains x1.5 special defense in a sandstorm (the above set brings him to 400 spdef) and you have a very solid wall for an opener that many people do not expect.

Crunch is probably the most reliable move for that set since it's 100% accurate and Dark hits everything nuetrally and isn't 4x resisted by anything, iirc. Payback might be a good move as well since you won't outspeed much with no speed investment and has 100 Base Power when you go second.

lucario is just that awesome, only pokemon who X4 resist dark moves and one of the few (2 in fact) pokemons that 4X resist rock, he ALSO 4X resist bug what is just fucking epic, such a amazing typing eh? payback look superior on that set because he is not outspeeding a shit and with no evs in atack, he need that little extra power.