OK, here's the thing. I have 2 pups that are about 6 weeks old that belong to my m'Deah, and I have been shirt training them and trying to start them on solid foods, so I've been keeping them away from Mama for some extended periods of time this weekend. I also have 2 others who are rescues, and do not yet have their eyes opened. They are doing pretty well, but could benifit from nursing from m'Deah if I had the nerve to try swapping her older babies with these younger ones. I keep all 4 in my shirt for hours at a time, so wouldn't the little ones smell like m'Deah's own babies? Has anyone else ever tried this? Anyone have any experince swapping babies entirely, and not just adding an extra pup or two to a mom with pups about the same size? Give me your thoughts please. Is it worth a try? How about if I were to put them into a nest box that is unoccupied, with some cotton from the nest her and her own babies were in?

Deb, lovingly owned by Tom Tom, Molly, Munchkin, and m'Deah. And a piece of my heart still owned by my sweet Tiny Tim.

I've swapped pups before with no trouble. Just watch her closely with them at first. When I swapped them, I peed the older pups on the new ones so they would smell like her own babies. I didn't use a different nest box or anything - just acted like everything was still the same. She sniffed them once or twice, and then started cleaning them up. I DID move her pups to the other end of the house, so that she wouldn't hear them if they called for her.

I have had one momma that would not accept the foster pups, but she didn't harm them - just pushed them away and ignored them.

Good luck with them. It's a lot better for them, and a lot easier on you, if they are raised by a flyer mom!

Thanks for the reply, Judy. One more question before I try it. Will the pups still know how to nurse after being fed Esbillac from an eyedropper for over a week now? I keep a close eye on them all when they get active in my shirt, and the little ones have not tried nursing on the older ones. They seem to love snuggling with the nice fluffy, warm bigger kids, but I would have thought they would also mistake them for a milk source. Little kittens and puppies are always like that. They attempt to nurse from any older animal that will get close enough.btw, the little ones eyes started to crack open tonight. Me and the squirrels have stayed up all night having a good time I actually bet them all, 'cause everyone seems to have gone to bed. And the babies are fast asleep in my top. I gave m'Deah her kids back to nurse, and they are quiet in their box. The other Chuckle Heads were bouncing all over me when I first got on the computer, but put themselves to bed soon after. Guess I'll try to sleep a little before I have to start my day

Deb, lovingly owned by Tom Tom, Molly, Munchkin, and m'Deah. And a piece of my heart still owned by my sweet Tiny Tim.

I'm gonna guess that they will not have any problems, since the momma will smell like milk, and will probably be encouraging them. But that is just a guess - I don't really know. You're just gonna have to wing it for the most part. I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

Deb wrote:.. Anyone have any experince swapping babies entirely, and not just adding an extra pup or two to a mom with pups about the same size?

Leah used to have her mama foster rescues. Just keep a close check on the younger pups as the mama may be close to drying up with 6 week olds of her own. That happened to Leah once and she almost lost the youngest pups before she discovered it.

"A lot of people spend time talking to the Animals, but not that many people listen. That's the real problem! ... Winnie the Pooh

Thanks Joan, I was kinda wondering about that very thing. I have not given m'Deah any pups back yet. I've got all 4. I am gonna have to get serious about getting the older ones used to being handled, and quit giving them back to their mom when they get hungry. They have started running off when they get a chance. I had to pull the boy out from under a desk and he cussed loud They are nibbling pecan this afternoon though

Deb, lovingly owned by Tom Tom, Molly, Munchkin, and m'Deah. And a piece of my heart still owned by my sweet Tiny Tim.

Update: I offered m'Deah the 2 little ones on my hand last night instead of her pups back. She did a quick sniff and snatched one and stuffed into her nest, then came back for the other. I listened for a while and heard some settling in noises, but thakfully no sharp squeals. I checked to night and m'Deah had moved pups to another nest. She was very protective and did a lot of slapping at me. I found one pup dead with injury to it's throat. The other pup was live,clean, warm, with a full belly. She looked like she had gained some wieght in the 24 hours m'Deah has had her. The dead pup was also very clean, the wound was clean without any blood on it's fur. I believe m'Deah must have injured her accidently, probably when moving them. I didn't pull the other pup yet. I wanted other opinions about that. My inclination is to leave m'Deah the H--- alone so she hopefully won't try moving the last pup again. I think I can see if the pup is nursing by checking the condition of m'Deah's teats when she comes to the cage wire for a moth. And I can listen for nursing sounds when she sees me coming WITHOUT a moth and darts back into her nest What do yall think?

Deb, lovingly owned by Tom Tom, Molly, Munchkin, and m'Deah. And a piece of my heart still owned by my sweet Tiny Tim.

I think I'd leave her alone, specially since it's been 24 hours and the baby is fat and happy. I agree, the other baby's death was probably an accident, or maybe there was something wrong with it and you didn't know it.

Thanks Judy. I don't think there was anything wrong with the pup. She had the wound so clean that it was easy to see that only the skin was peeled back on her throat, there was no puncture into the underlying tissue. I think it must have lived until fairly recently before I found it. It was only barly cool, and very limp. She probably did the best she could until infection or fluid loss from the wound killed her. I feel really bad, but I had decided not to disturb them until tonight.

Deb, lovingly owned by Tom Tom, Molly, Munchkin, and m'Deah. And a piece of my heart still owned by my sweet Tiny Tim.

OOOOOOOOO IT IS SO SAD!!!! I hate when things like this happen, it breaks my heart. How is everything so far? maybe the mom smelled something wrong and killed it...but I am hoping it is just an acident...

Just checked on m'Deah and the pup. Everything looks good. Pup is fat and growing well. She is still very protective, and was not happy that the pup seemed glad to see me and kept climbing up to the top of the cotton to get to me I'm glad she remembers me. It will make it easier when I have to take her back from m'Deah. As an adoptive Mom myself, I feel really bad for doing it. m'Deah's 7 week old babies are doing really well too. One will soon be going to his or her HOF, our Sheriff, Jackie Knight. His family had a flyer many years ago who lived with them for many years. He is very excited about having a new baby. He is learning all about his baby's needs, and is cage shopping. He'll make a great HOF. He plans to let the little chuckleheads decide which one of them will go home with him and be his new boss The one that is left, I will probably post for adoption on the boards.

Deb, lovingly owned by Tom Tom, Molly, Munchkin, and m'Deah. And a piece of my heart still owned by my sweet Tiny Tim.