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Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Sectionq

What Hugo said was what I was going to say.

One of the things I didn't like at the end was he back pedaled a bit when Gregor made the comment that fans think the refs have it in for the Esks by saying that the Esks got away with a couple of what should have been holding calls. Well big freaking deal. You can call holding on basically every play if you want too so to bring it up was lame. Overall, he said that when the Esks talked to the refs after the game, they were beyond pissed, felt they got screwed and as Bud said "it was just one of those bad nights." Doesn't really make you feel much better.

Well what more can he say. Obviously they can't change the result of the game. Missed holding calls seems a stretch when we've brushed aside our gripes about the numerous holds the Stamps got away with. So maybe the missed holds balanced out. Nothing else did though.

Re: F*** this League.

This whole thing makes me wonder what will happen at the next Esks/Stamps game in Edmonton. Will the refs make it worse and screw Calgary deliberately, incite riotous behaviour by continuing to job the Esks as some sort of revenge for "challenging their authorita", or finally just call a fair game between the two teams. Unfortunately, I don't think they have the ability to do the latter, so it's likely one of the former.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by writfiler

The clock ran for 3 seconds before Coach Dick called the timeout with 20 left....

If the clock ran then Calgary should have been penalized for having an illegal player on the field. Once the play was whistled in the flag should have flown. That player was supposed to be off the field for three plays.

Placing the Alberta Flag on the Calgary Flames uniform is akin to putting lipstick on a Pig
Pizmo Loves Nanookster

Re: F*** this League.

Bud said that the challenged play was not pass interference and Gregor said much the same on the show. Bud said he watched the play for twenty minutes and came to that conclusion.

I can't believe he has a capacity in the league when he can come to that conclusion and he saw the play and feels he knows the rules.

Here is the relevant rule from the 2017 CFL Rule Book:

Rule 6 - Passing

Section 4

Article 9

Part b)

(vii) It is pass interference by either team when a player physically contacts an opponent creating separation, redirects, restricts or impedes the opponent in a manner that is visually evident and materially affects the opponent’s opportunity to play the ball. A player who has gained position shall not be considered to have impeded or restricted the opponent in a prohibited manner if all such actions are a bona fide effort to go to and play the ball.

The bolded is by me. The Calgary player was stride for stride with Williams. He was not looking for the ball or playing the ball. Williams was looking at the ball and attempting to get to the ball and was impeded in doing so by the Calgary player. Bud stated that the Calgary player had position but the rule states that his actions of impeding the opponent must be done in a bonafide effort to play the ball. He made no effort to play the ball and had no idea where it was.

Take a look at the play again.

It is pretty clear that Chris Cuthbert and Glenn Suitor don't know the rules either.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Esks1975

Bud suggested that there was not a hit to the head on the play and that the Calgary player hit Reilly with his face mask to the shoulder.

Then he needs glasses..... anyone watching the game knows full well that was a head shot! Just more CYA by the CFL and officiating......... notice how the league office has been absolutely silent on this, hoping that it will quickly be forgotten when play resumes this weekend!?!?

Re: F*** this League.

Refs are human. Humans make mistakes. I don't expect any ref to have perfect games. But what I am finding is that the amount of BIG mistakes that have severe impact on games is rising. I have been going to games for most of my soon to be 40 yrs on this earth. I could be wrong but I don't remember years ago there being as many BIG, game impacting bad calls. Maybe with all the hi def and replays that we just physically see them more often and they were always there but I just don't remember it being this bad. The most troubling part is the bad/missed calls seem to be really blatant. When Steen was describing the missed face mask on the kick off that would have had a huge impact in favor for the Esks and he actually says he's shocked it got missed by every official, that's really concerning to me.

Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Sectionq

Refs are human. Humans make mistakes. I don't expect any ref to have perfect games. But what I am finding is that the amount of BIG mistakes that have severe impact on games is rising. I have been going to games for most of my soon to be 40 yrs on this earth. I could be wrong but I don't remember years ago there being as many BIG, game impacting bad calls. Maybe with all the hi def and replays that we just physically see them more often and they were always there but I just don't remember it being this bad. The most troubling part is the bad/missed calls seem to be really blatant. When Steen was describing the missed face mask on the kick off that would have had a huge impact in favor for the Esks and he actually says he's shocked it got missed by every official, that's really concerning to me.

Agreed. I have reffed basketball for a long time and the absolutely blatant infractions should be the easiest to call and "get right"! I cannot fathom how in the CFL the obvious is missed and the speculative/subjective stuff gets called far more frequently. I would like to think when a ref is totally fed up with another ref there is likely some credence to it..............................................

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Sectionq

Refs are human. Humans make mistakes. I don't expect any ref to have perfect games. But what I am finding is that the amount of BIG mistakes that have severe impact on games is rising. I have been going to games for most of my soon to be 40 yrs on this earth. I could be wrong but I don't remember years ago there being as many BIG, game impacting bad calls. Maybe with all the hi def and replays that we just physically see them more often and they were always there but I just don't remember it being this bad. The most troubling part is the bad/missed calls seem to be really blatant. When Steen was describing the missed face mask on the kick off that would have had a huge impact in favor for the Esks and he actually says he's shocked it got missed by every official, that's really concerning to me.

I don't expect refs to have perfect games either but you would think their bad/missed calls would balance out throughout the game.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by eskimoses

Then he needs glasses..... anyone watching the game knows full well that was a head shot! Just more CYA by the CFL and officiating......... notice how the league office has been absolutely silent on this, hoping that it will quickly be forgotten when play resumes this weekend!?!?

You can bet there will be no fine levied either, as that would be a huge admission that the call was botched!

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by writfiler

You can bet there will be no fine levied either, as that would be a huge admission that the call was botched!

I don't know about that. The league has handed out fines on missed calls in the past. They likely believe what they said in that it was within the rules. Obviously, we all disagree, but I doubt there is a conspiracy to cover this up when we've already heard admission that there were several other mistakes that favored the Stamps, they just don't believe this was one of them.

Hopefully, they've at least learned from this that at minimum if a quarterback gets pulled the backup should be given at least 30 seconds to a minute to do a quick warmup.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Hugoagogo

I'll try.
He said the PI challenge by Maas, if anything was closer to offensive PI as the DB was in the path of the ball and our receiver tried to go through him.
He said he believed Reilly's hit was to the shoulder and the head shot was incidental contact after the shoulder. He theorizes that the spotter called Reilly out due to the head to ground contact. He didn't think there should be a penalty and he added that he believes the concussion spotter would be better served in stadium as opposed to in Toronto. He does not believe officials should be part of the concussion protocol process as the league should have professionals better served to make that medical decision. He also added that consideration to concussion protocols should not be given based on a players perceived toughness. Yes, Reilly is tough, but he deserves the same safety considerations as every player out there.
He understands the whistle to call the Calgary receiver down was in error and that official will catch hell for it. He believes the Stampeder gave up because he heard the whistle - that was the reason the ball was stripped. He felt that if there was no whistle, the Calgary player would have fought harder for the goal line and would have retained the ball.
He also mentioned a facemasking infraction by the Stamps on a kickoff that took place beyond the sidelines. He said that was another blown call.

He did suggest that some coaches unfortunately do not understand the rules as well as they think.

Williams had his chest plate pulled down by the DB prior to the ball arriving which forced him to put his hands around the DB. At no time did the DB look for the ball. The entire east side saw this. Go **** yourself Bud

You could hear the head shot from sec Q ( and elsewhere) and the defender lead with the crown of his helmet. Go *** yourself Bud.

I hit them as hard as I could on the mouth right from the start of the game so they were thinking this was going to be a long day. Sooner or later one of us had to quit. And it wasn't going to be me.
- Dan Kepley

Re: F*** this League.

Here is Bud's response to me re the OC to Edwards for the throat-slashing gesture:

"Only an onfield official can throw that penalty. On Saturday, the first official who saw the infraction was reluctant to penalize given the time & situation. After a very short crew consultation the Referee made the decision they had no choice given how obvious it was. That contributed to the delay in getting nylon on the ground. Glad you continue listening. Doing my best to supply honesty to the game we love."

So no eye in the sky or the guy holding the sticks was involved....

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by bone

This whole thing makes me wonder what will happen at the next Esks/Stamps game in Edmonton. Will the refs make it worse and screw Calgary deliberately, incite riotous behaviour by continuing to job the Esks as some sort of revenge for "challenging their authorita", or finally just call a fair game between the two teams. Unfortunately, I don't think they have the ability to do the latter, so it's likely one of the former.

By then (October 28) the Stumps will have clinched first place & may be resting some starters....

Re: F*** this League.

When Steen comes on Gregor's show I do like how we explains the rules, explains how they are supposed to be called, gets into what is OK and what they let players get away with and how he gives some insight on how officials for a lack of a better word manage games. However, I really didn't like how he justified to a degree how crappy the officials were especially in the last game. He did say the really bad calls that got missed were mistakes that shouldn't happen and the officials were graded badly which impacts them.

What bothered me a little is how apparently the Esks said after the game when they complained that the refs cost them the game and how he disagreed saying the Esks had other chances. He listed the missed TD opportunity when Reilly was pulled as one example. Technically speaking, he is right, that was a missed opportunity. BUT by his own admission, Reilly shouldn't have been taken out. He can say what he wants, I believe and most do as well that it was a head shot and if the spotter thought Reilly needed to come out, the spotter must have thought there was something as well. Plus, it is pretty difficult for a completely cold QB to walk in out of the blue and execute a TD with no warm up or chance to prepare. So while yes, the Esks did miss an opportunity, the refs made it extremely difficult to take advantage. So blowing a play dead way early when the Esks cause a fumble, missing a face mask on the kickoff that would have given the Esks an extra 15 yards which is HUGE when you are against the clock, incorrectly pulling the starting QB when they are driving for a TD are HUGE plays/breaks that went the way of the Stamps. In a tightly contested game between 2 good teams battling it out for every inch where the margin of error is small, typically those types of games literally come down to a couple of plays or breaks. The Stamps were gifted several breaks in the game because of errors by the refs which Bud admitted were big time mistakes, so for him to say that the refs didn't really impact the game is a flat out lie and disappointing.

Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Sectionq

When Steen comes on Gregor's show I do like how we explains the rules, explains how they are supposed to be called, gets into what is OK and what they let players get away with and how he gives some insight on how officials for a lack of a better word manage games. However, I really didn't like how he justified to a degree how crappy the officials were especially in the last game. He did say the really bad calls that got missed were mistakes that shouldn't happen and the officials were graded badly which impacts them.

What bothered me a little is how apparently the Esks said after the game when they complained that the refs cost them the game and how he disagreed saying the Esks had other chances. He listed the missed TD opportunity when Reilly was pulled as one example. Technically speaking, he is right, that was a missed opportunity. BUT by his own admission, Reilly shouldn't have been taken out. He can say what he wants, I believe and most do as well that it was a head shot and if the spotter thought Reilly needed to come out, the spotter must have thought there was something as well. Plus, it is pretty difficult for a completely cold QB to walk in out of the blue and execute a TD with no warm up or chance to prepare. So while yes, the Esks did miss an opportunity, the refs made it extremely difficult to take advantage. So blowing a play dead way early when the Esks cause a fumble, missing a face mask on the kickoff that would have given the Esks an extra 15 yards which is HUGE when you are against the clock, incorrectly pulling the starting QB when they are driving for a TD are HUGE plays/breaks that went the way of the Stamps. In a tightly contested game between 2 good teams battling it out for every inch where the margin of error is small, typically those types of games literally come down to a couple of plays or breaks. The Stamps were gifted several breaks in the game because of errors by the refs which Bud admitted were big time mistakes, so for him to say that the refs didn't really impact the game is a flat out lie and disappointing.

He argued that any single decision by the officials doesn't effect the outcome in response to the Esks claiming that the Parker play lost them the game. And generally, I'd say he's right. The problem with this game was that there were multiple decisions/errors that directly impacted key plays which certainly influenced the outcome if not decide.

Just looking at the final minutes, by his own admission, the Parker play, if he fumbles game over. But perhaps if he doesn't hear a whistle, he does not fumble and quite possibly scores resulting in 23 additional seconds for the Eskimos to come back down the field. This is further complicated by a couple of missed calls on the ensuing kickoff that at least one of them should have been called and added 15 yards. If the esks are starting at their 41 with 52 seconds on the clock, they are a much better position to set up for a make-able field goal, if not score a touchdown to win. So the Parker call is a double whammy of sorts.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by bone

He argued that any single decision by the officials doesn't effect the outcome in response to the Esks claiming that the Parker play lost them the game. And generally, I'd say he's right. The problem with this game was that there were multiple decisions/errors that directly impacted key plays which certainly influenced the outcome if not decide.

Just looking at the final minutes, by his own admission, the Parker play, if he fumbles game over. But perhaps if he doesn't hear a whistle, he does not fumble and quite possibly scores resulting in 23 additional seconds for the Eskimos to come back down the field. This is further complicated by a couple of missed calls on the ensuing kickoff that at least one of them should have been called and added 15 yards. If the esks are starting at their 41 with 52 seconds on the clock, they are a much better position to set up for a make-able field goal, if not score a touchdown to win. So the Parker call is a double whammy of sorts.

What I didn't like about him saying what he said is he marginalized the timing of a call. If a ref missed a face mask on the opening kickoff, he's totally right. While it's a mistake that shouldn't happen, you have the entire game to overcome that and it shouldn't impact the game. But when you miss a bad face mask in the last 30 seconds of the game when a team is down and trying to drive for game tying or winning points, that's a MASSIVE mistake and has a HUGE impact on the game. There isn't enough time to overcome that. Milo doesn't have a huge leg and there is a reason why he is looking for jobs all the time because he's decent but not great. So a 47 yard field goal is on the more difficult side for him to make but 15 yards ahead and that is single point range which should be relatively straight forward for him. What was more frustrating about him talking about that mistake is Steen himself said that with that penalty, Milo probably makes the kick. So if you believe that, how can you marginalize the timing of a call and say that the refs really didn't impact the outcome of game. You just said that if the refs do their freaking job, he makes the kick. If he makes the kick, the game it tied and have a chance to win. Instead he missed and they lost!

Last edited by Sectionq; 09-14-2017 at 09:16 AM.

Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

Re: F*** this League.

Steen did talk about how mistakes at the end of the game by an official are graded more harshly than those made at the beginning. He also said the guy who screwed up on the whistle on Parkers fumble got the worst grade of the year that he had seen because of it. It likely cost the Esks any chance at first place but the ref got a bad grade.

Re: F*** this League.

It likely cost the Esks any chance at first place but the ref got a bad grade.

After the Esks ranted about getting screwed and it costing them first place, I can only imagine Maas's reaction if Steen told him. "Well we did grade the refs harshly."

What blows me away is if all these refs where brand new, maybe you can understand them making mistakes. But many of them have been around a while and they seem to be getting worse. Shouldn't anyone doing anything get a little better strictly because they have more experience?

Last edited by Sectionq; 09-14-2017 at 09:38 AM.

Remember winning is not enough according to Len Rhodes, President of a professional sports team.

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by Sectionq

After the Esks ranted about getting screwed and it costing them first place, I can only imagine Maas's reaction if Steen told him. "Well we did grade the refs harshly."

What blows me away is if all these refs where brand new, maybe you can understand them making mistakes. But many of them have been around a while and they seem to be getting worse. Shouldn't anyone doing anything get a little better strictly because they have more experience?

Re: F*** this League.

The thing i didnt like about the PI call that made Maas go nuts was that the replay only focused in on the last two strides and how they were fighting for the ball. If you watch about 3 strides before the jump for the catch, the DB clearly held onto Williams' arm and tugged on it, disrupting his route. Williams had gotten a step on him and his arm was held while running at full speed. 2-3 strides later the ball was underthrown and because the db was between Duke and the ball , Duke had to come back for it and at that point i would agree it isn't pass interference since the DB had position. However, the call imo probably should have been "illegal contact" which is only a 10 yard penalty...it would have given us first down but not put us in a position for a field goal.

The other thing that sucks is that when Reilly got pulled out, Franklin went in and drew an offside penalty, puttting us at 1 and goal from the 7, which is close to where we would have gotten with the RTP penalty that wasnt allowed, but the esks, with the best offence but worst red zone offence in the league , called a stupid hitch pass which lost 5 yards. When Reilly got pulled i think maas should have called a time out and given Franklin some time to warm up and time for them to think about what to do with first and goal from the seven. not scoring there cost us the game.

Lastly, can anybody here clarify...don't we as the receiving team have the option to not take a kickoff, instead taking the ball at the 35? given how crappy our special teams are why wouldn't we do that rather than waste 10 seconds, risk a fumble, and end up at the 22 where we usually start drives from, instead of the 35?

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by mattdunigan

The thing i didnt like about the PI call that made Maas go nuts was that the replay only focused in on the last two strides and how they were fighting for the ball. If you watch about 3 strides before the jump for the catch, the DB clearly held onto Williams' arm and tugged on it, disrupting his route. Williams had gotten a step on him and his arm was held while running at full speed. 2-3 strides later the ball was underthrown and because the db was between Duke and the ball , Duke had to come back for it and at that point i would agree it isn't pass interference since the DB had position. However, the call imo probably should have been "illegal contact" which is only a 10 yard penalty...it would have given us first down but not put us in a position for a field goal.

The other thing that sucks is that when Reilly got pulled out, Franklin went in and drew an offside penalty, puttting us at 1 and goal from the 7, which is close to where we would have gotten with the RTP penalty that wasnt allowed, but the esks, with the best offence but worst red zone offence in the league , called a stupid hitch pass which lost 5 yards. When Reilly got pulled i think maas should have called a time out and given Franklin some time to warm up and time for them to think about what to do with first and goal from the seven. not scoring there cost us the game.

Lastly, can anybody here clarify...don't we as the receiving team have the option to not take a kickoff, instead taking the ball at the 35? given how crappy our special teams are why wouldn't we do that rather than waste 10 seconds, risk a fumble, and end up at the 22 where we usually start drives from, instead of the 35?

Re: F*** this League.

Originally Posted by mattdunigan

The thing i didnt like about the PI call that made Maas go nuts was that the replay only focused in on the last two strides and how they were fighting for the ball. If you watch about 3 strides before the jump for the catch, the DB clearly held onto Williams' arm and tugged on it, disrupting his route. Williams had gotten a step on him and his arm was held while running at full speed. 2-3 strides later the ball was underthrown and because the db was between Duke and the ball , Duke had to come back for it and at that point i would agree it isn't pass interference since the DB had position. However, the call imo probably should have been "illegal contact" which is only a 10 yard penalty...it would have given us first down but not put us in a position for a field goal.

The other thing that sucks is that when Reilly got pulled out, Franklin went in and drew an offside penalty, puttting us at 1 and goal from the 7, which is close to where we would have gotten with the RTP penalty that wasnt allowed, but the esks, with the best offence but worst red zone offence in the league , called a stupid hitch pass which lost 5 yards. When Reilly got pulled i think maas should have called a time out and given Franklin some time to warm up and time for them to think about what to do with first and goal from the seven. not scoring there cost us the game.

Lastly, can anybody here clarify...don't we as the receiving team have the option to not take a kickoff, instead taking the ball at the 35? given how crappy our special teams are why wouldn't we do that rather than waste 10 seconds, risk a fumble, and end up at the 22 where we usually start drives from, instead of the 35?

Teams always must kickoff when a TD is scored. Teams can choose to take the ball at the 35 after a field goal, but not after the three minute warning.

A fun rule that never gets used is that a team that is scored against has the option to kick it themselves from their 35 or make the other team kick from its 35 (except after field goals after the three minute warning).