As the risk of posting about something that is generally really really hard to get going:

I think theres defeinitely been some interest in the past, even a couple of entries produced for the proposed LWJGL16k.

However, I'd like to see something different done. 4K (as noted) is a special case where the size limit doesn't reduce the number of games that can be produced, it acts as an equalizer. Taking the 4K contest and sticking 16K instead just seems a bit boring to me.

I like the idea of themes. The recent gamedev themes event seemed to work very well. There are also other limits that can be imposed, onyx recently mentioned the idea of only being able to use a single 256x256 texture for everything in the game which seemed pretty neat.

Anyone have any good ideas for themes and/or limits? So far I like:

Themes: - Non-Match 3 puzzle games - Wildlife based games (must get a certain number of different animals in) - Retro game remakes (although Retro Remakes did one of these recently) - Explosive Games - Gravity Based Games - Sound based games - Pluggable AI games - design a game which others can write AI for (not sure how this would work)

Limits - One texture limit (256x256?) - No resources - procedural content only - Game Pad Input only (ready for consoles - could provide an emulation tool for those without hardware) - Small Res Games - Time (2 day contest - though this gives the advantage to those with prebuilt stuff hanging around - also competes with that other contest) - Fixed resources (provided by a budding artist or an open source resource - Ari Feldman's sprites for instance)

A combination of both theme and limit would benice. I.e. a explosions with procedurally created content sounds good. There is a problem with procedurally created content tho, the programmer can shove the texture data to a byte array and decode that.

That's why the size thing has always annoyed me really... daft restrictions on what you can and cannot use. I say just pick a deadline and then the canniest programmers will use every tool they have available in that short space of time to come up with a game. Ok, so I admit perhaps I might cheat and just use my minigame template engine but there we go, I put the effort in so why shouldn't I go for gold

I think when it comes to talking about rules and restrictions then looking at how Ludum Dare does things is a good start. The important thing to note is that every restriction tends to put more and more people off of taking part. LD tends to have two restrictions: 48 hours and a gameplay theme. In these cases there're not really restrictions, they both help you focus on creating a *game*. The short time limit is obviously the main quirk and so probably attracts people as much as puts them off (much like the 4k competitions). The theme makes people more creative and provides a good starting point (avoiding the whole blank-canvas writers block problems).

Interestingly they've been loosening up the restrictions on using libraries as the competition has gone on, and it's only made things better. Early ones had rules like "any approved open source library". This just ended up making world+dog ask for their favorite lib to get added to the approved list (and most were). Things have progressed now down to one simple rule: any existing code you want, as long as all gameplay code is written during the competition. The crucial thing here is that this has only made things better - less rules, less explaining about the rules, less exceptions to the rules. Less arguing over "language X has this built-in, why can't I use language Y + lib Z". And less likely to put people off.

In short, I'd like to propose the same thing. Any pre-existing code is allowed, as long as all game and gameplay code is written in the competition time. And it'd be nice if you could release the source, but it's not required. This causes less quibbling over the rules and lets everyone use their favorite environment - which means you get more entrants and better games. Of course being JGO it'd probably have to have the implicit "must be written in Java" too.

Also, themes are good. And time limits have to be either exceptionally short (24-48 hours) or a decent chunk of time (a month). In-betweeny ones like a week don't work well.

I know what you mean... I just also know that I have no time, so space restrictions would be easier to deal with for me. I would have a chance in a 4k contest, but soon as the contest is big enough to support something along the lines of the puppygames stuff then I know I don't stand a chance... at least not in a restricted time frame.

I've got no problem with it either way though. A contest in some form larger than a 4k is a good idea. Theme-based would work.

>Of course being JGO it'd probably have to have the implicit "must be written in Java" too.

Objection! :V

Say there is a framework which allows scripting a game in say... python (jython) what then? How about the game code/logic must run inside the vm instead? Otherwise you wouldnt be able to use (most) scripting languages.

>Of course being JGO it'd probably have to have the implicit "must be written in Java" too.

Objection! :V

Say there is a framework which allows scripting a game in say... python (jython) what then? How about the game code/logic must run inside the vm instead? Otherwise you wouldnt be able to use (most) scripting languages.

Heh, this is why having fewer rules is better. You could have "anything which can be played via webstart or an applet" but I know webstart isn't always ideal. "Anything which uses a JVM to run" seems overly technical though.

I think the game must be running everything on Java code with the exception of approved libraries to bind to native code. So if your scripting engine is written in Java (by you) that would be ok because it would still be Java running the show.

Ohh, I despise themes in games contest.... I think they restrict creativity, not encourage it.

Quote

I just also know that I have no time, so space restrictions would be easier to deal with for me.

The 4k contest bit me in the @ss this year. I had about 1k of uncompressed room left in my entry and I found that the mental WORK of coding to that killed me. I got some good results but there's something about information content in a small space that wrecked me. So I didn't finish it. Maybe next year.

Anyway, I had big plans for a lwjgl 16k entry. But like SW said, if the contest rules are such that puppy games or Markus (among others...) have resources and time to produce a full game, then forget it, it's just no contest.

I think the point of any theme is to restrict creativity, to hopefully help to bring the contest down to more level pegging. I see where you're coming from with resources and time - but thats what the restrictions are about - I just don't think size is the only way to do it.

I wouldn't worry about it not being a "contest" if Puppygame enters... we're only having fun and wouldn't put any more effort into it than anyone else I shouldn't think. Besides all of our libraries are open source so you're free to use all our code anyway

I know what you mean... I just also know that I have no time, so space restrictions would be easier to deal with for me. I would have a chance in a 4k contest, but soon as the contest is big enough to support something along the lines of the puppygames stuff then I know I don't stand a chance... at least not in a restricted time frame.

I've got no problem with it either way though. A contest in some form larger than a 4k is a good idea. Theme-based would work.

Ditto.

I don't have a lot of spare time either, so something like 48 hours to make it would rule me out right away. Any other restriction is fine for me.

meh. having a list of non-standard libraries a user can use really can make the size validation confusing for everybody. if you're going to have a lwjgl or whatever contest, the challenge should *not* be the size restriction.

we could pull off a time-limit and theme. (time-limit even being 3 months if the theme is broad enough to cover that much time). 48 hours is cool but I'd like to see some full potential games that are made in over a month's time. we're already making a name for java in the gaming market through the 4K, why not put some serious effort into a game (more than 48 hours) that's larger than 4K. we're really using these contests to motivate some impressive game creation in a short amount of time. It kinda makes no sense to give people 3 months to develop a 4K game but give them 48hours to develop a 3D 16K game?

I know what you mean... I just also know that I have no time, so space restrictions would be easier to deal with for me. I would have a chance in a 4k contest, but soon as the contest is big enough to support something along the lines of the puppygames stuff then I know I don't stand a chance... at least not in a restricted time frame.

I've got no problem with it either way though. A contest in some form larger than a 4k is a good idea. Theme-based would work.

Ditto.

I don't have a lot of spare time either, so something like 48 hours to make it would rule me out right away. Any other restriction is fine for me.

I'd also find it difficult to compete in a 48 hour contest. I'm also pretty maxed out for the next couple of months anyway.

Themes are Ok, although I prefer subject themes, rather than technology themes.

Another thought is to have a small code limit, but unlimited resources. That could be abused with some clever programming, methinks, but maybe worth the risk to get some more interesting graphics/sound. Having said that, I've got quite a good procedural sound engine and a few ideas to make it even better

The most important thing however is for the competion to actually happen

Ok, how's about we just do it! Deadline is 00:00 GMT 30th April. Must be runnable on Windows, OSX, Linux and deployed via Webstart; there are no other restrictions. Machines used for judging will be my laptops (all 3 of them, in various configurations, so code carefully!), my iMac G5, and whatever Linux machine Elias from Oddlabs has got TT running on. We won't enter except maybe for fun. Criteria are gameplay, graphics, sound, production. Prize is glory and $100 PayPalled from Puppygames plus all the lame publicity we can muster. Theme is.... rocks, tunnels, earth, channels, digging. Gentlemen + odd random girl, start your engines.

Won't award "points", we will simply put each entry in order of preference and the lowest score adding up the ranks wins.If you use JDK5.0 you will find the game won't run on my Mac so I wouldn't advise it or you'll be disqualified And the theme is very vague - use any of those words, or all of them, in your game. There's pretty much scope to do nearly anything I reckon 2 months is enough time to get something fun together.

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