Featured Quote:"A believer may pass through much affliction, and yet secure very little blessing from it all. Abiding in Christ is the secret of securing all that the Father meant the chastisement to bring us." - Andrew Murray

A very good point made phillip. He his our father and he does disipline and chasen us. I have a reverental fear of the lord and not fear like a would a bear or something. He is our father and he loves me so therefore whatever he does is for my good and i have no need to fear. ")

hi, as a father to 8 children and now 2 great grands, i see that a child who fears me is guilty and knows it and a child that runs in and jumps in my arms and puts all his weight and trust on me is forgiven and knows it and loved and knows it.jimp

I love that you post such links so that folks can see differing aspects of this complex subject. Studious approach is worthy of respect (render honor to them that labor in the word and doctrine). May I add the following for studious consideration?

Why no fear of God? One of the speakers in the video quotes others saying God's love is unconditional--and AGREES this is true. This is unbiblical. God's love is NOT unconditional. We are received only if we REPENT. The very verse most used to 'prove' God's unconditional love proves exactly the opposite. "Father forgive them..." now if Christ had stopped here, we could truthfully call God's love and forgiveness unconditional. But He did NOT stop here. He continued, "FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO." This is the CONDITION upon which He makes His request for their forgiveness.

We are not even told we must forgive our brother unless he repents: "And if he trespass against you seven times in a day and seven times in a day turn to you and SAY, I REPENT; thou shalt forgive him." Luke 17:4 Also see Luke 17:3; Mat 18:15. All these passages specify that our brother must make known to us his repentance before we forgive him. Even in the parable of the servant who was forgiven but would not forgive his brother a lesser debt, we see that repentance was offered, and mercy was asked for, not taken for granted as a basic right (and therefore cheapened in value).

The words 'unconditional love' are not found in scripture. Nor is the teaching itself. God's wonderful love need not have license to sin added to it-whether for us or for others. And the idea that one can sin willfully against God or another and it'll 'all be forgiven' with no real repentance--and repentance means change, even if the person asking for forgiveness has to ask our patience while God does the changing as in the parable--the idea of unconditional love leads to license in behavior because, hey, God's just gonna forgive us all, ain't He? And one can sin flagrantly against others, because when they hold us to account (as the verses listed above specify), all we have to do is accuse them of unforgiveness and walk off cackling at them until we return to do them an even worse turn. Can anyone seriously believe God is in a doctrine which encourages such disrespect of Him and our fellow man?

Impossible. "Make no provision for the flesh." Unconditional love and forgiveness is making provision for the flesh, because if you sin, God and others HAVE TO forgive you. And that puts them in bondage to you and your decision to sin, doesn't it? They are OBLIGATED to forgive you, whether you repent or not. God says we must repent first, and we might allow for that, but we turn right around and claim God puts on us a burden He will not bear Himself. God isn't obligated to forgive unless we repent, but mere MAN is obligated to forgive regardless, or be accused of 'having unforgiveness in his heart'. (Always spoken as if it were the unforgiveable sin in very self-righteous tones.)

In this doctrine, as in so many out there--and I mean out there--today, we would do well to emulate those who showed themselves to be more noble, 'searching the scriptures to see whether these things were so'. Particularly in regard to things that 'everybody KNOWS is right/true/God's will'. It's amazing how often such doctrines actually presume upon God's will with mere lip service paid to it.

Adding to the discussion on the fear of God, scripture tells us 'the fear of the Lord is the BEGINNING of wisdom': but is it wisdom's end? No. "Perfect love casts out fear." Of course, walking in perfect love for a Person, one's biggest fear will be to offend or hurt or displease Him--won't it? And we will fear that even more than being hurt ourselves, if we love perfectly. I think when we get to that point, there's generally an end to the problem. ;-) ;-)

For a long time I have been praying for Wisdom because we are instructed to do so. I never understood exactly what to expect. I was pretty certain I would not become a brainy thinker. After reading the study in this link It makes perfect sense to me.

Praise the Lord, He has answered my prayer. Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Now I see that the new drive I have to get closer to Jesus is the answer to my prayer for Wisdom.

hi, love is so much more powerful then fear. fear hath torment and perfect love does cast it out. if a married man who travels fears being caught in sin, he becomes very sneaky about it. but if this same man loves his wife he doesn't even think about doing anything that would harm his relationship.i feared my father as a small child and it was wise to do so for he was a strong disciplinarian but as i grew older i learned to love him and have fellowship with him and it changed my life.God IS love and He never changes. this promotes that love in me that keeps me from being sneaky and keeping the relationship close as apposed to making me think i can dishonor His love by sinning.this idea that security promotes sin is the dumbest idea i hear.jimp

Proverbs 9:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

In my opinion to fear God begins with having a reverential awe of Him, to be aware of your own impotence next to His almighty power. Not a worldly fear of being caught in sin. (There is nothing hidden from God.)

Fear of the Lord represents the utmost respect and submission. To say God IS love, in my opinion tries to put Him in a box and limit His being and power. It might make a person feel more comfortable to acknowledge only that one quality but as mere mortals we can not begin to know all the qualities of our Almighty God. We know He loves us, he made us for Himself, He redeemed us with the blood of His Son but for those who turn their backs on Him, the ultimate price will not be love.

The fear of God is also to fear losing His love. Of being aware of the consequences of that happening and to be forever grateful for His free gift of salvation paid for by the body and blood of His only son and our saviour, Jesus.

"this idea that security promotes sin is the dumbest idea i hear." You didn't hear that from me, did you? Perhaps it was a previous poster?

Why no fear of God? One of the speakers in the video quotes others saying God's love is unconditional--and AGREES this is true. This is unbiblical.

I agree with your post about importance of repentance. But I thought you need to put your understanding in a better way. For example, God's love is unconditional and it is not unbiblical. Why? Mathew 5:45 -He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.Jesus himself had food with Sinners. He did not hate sinners. God hates sin but not sinners. He loves them and has given his Son and Holy Spirit to save us from Sin.

God loves us unconditionally. But that does not mean that he is pleased with us. There are conditions to please God. I need to do his will in every step of my life, which is possible only if I listen to Holy Spirit.

God loved the Jews when they were in Egypt and promised them to take them out of Egypt and to give them a promise land. But on their way out he was not pleased with many of them and they faced his wrath and died in desert. 1 Corinthians 10-5:-Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

The fear of God is also to fear losing His love. Of being aware of the consequences of that happening and to be forever grateful for His free gift of salvation paid for by the body and blood of His only son and our saviour, Jesus.

Amen brother, this how I see the fear of God. It does not threaten me like fleshly fear. It only encourages me.

A man being true to his wife with the fear of getting caught for adultery is not the fear of God. It is fear of getting caught by men. It is fear of Men. It is sad that many believers do not understand the difference between fear of Men and fear of God. The fear I have is fear of hurting my Heavenly father, who has gifted me a lovely wife, by lusting for other women. Brother Zac once said, 'even if I entertain the thought that my wife does not cook as good as another women, I have lusted and dishonored God'. If by human love if I can be true to my wife then any unbeliever should be able to be true to his wife. Where is the role of Jesus here? Human love has limitations, example -Son :- Father will you get angry with me.Father :- No Son I will never get angry with you.Son :- Father are you sure you won't get angry.Father :- Yes Son I am sure.Son :- Are you 100% sure you will never get angry,Father :- How many times should I say the same thing? Won't you understand? I will not get angry. Now Stop disturbing me.

This is the human love, it has limitations, but divine love is 7 times or 70 times, he is always ready to forgive me.

So a man can be true to his wife only by divine love that comes from God, it will come to him from God only if he has the fear of God in him. As stated by you in your previous post.