Battlefield 3 - PC thread

Maybe offtopic but somewhat related because I heard it mentioned earlier in the thread,

Battlefield 2142, why is it typically spoke of in the negative?

I never played 1942/BF2 but I always had a lot of fun with 2142. Some of the maps were a bit too choke-pointy at points but in general I thought it had a good atmosphere of being in the future and fighting a war. Yeah Titan mode didn't work out so well what with it being laggy bunt normal mode was still fun.

I had fun with 2142, it got a lot of hate but i enjoyed it. Some people i know refused to by it because they thought it was a re-skin but it did have a lot of charm. Spinning around in the PAC hover tank blasting away, pod squashing FTW!

Looking forward to BF3 of course! Hoping there is a return of the mobile AA, either in tank form or even better, some kind of shoulder launched stinger...

2142 seemed good, but I'd be buggered if I was paying full-price for a BF2 mod when they still hadn't fixed the balance issues in BF2.I think it was badly received because people wanted more support for BF2 and what they got was, "LOL, why would we do a free patch when we can make money on a new game instead. This one has lasers. They go pew-pew! Also, we have in-game adverts. As you stare into the patch of sky between your latest nemesis' testicles you can see ads for American Pie 4:The Wedding on in-game billboards! Yes, it's totally appropriate for a game set in 2142. No, our advert revenue will not be passed on in the form of lower prices."

I really liked the Titan mode though, and the hoverplane things were great (compared to the goddamned BF2 jets). If they sold it as an expansion pack, it would've been a big hit.

That BF3 teaser trailer is possibly the worst advert ever. Aside from the obnoxious sound and video quality, it shows a bunch of people co-operating together in a combined-arms attack. Nice! Then it all gets spoilt by some asshat in a plane that strikes out of nowhere and disappears before anyone can fire a shot in defence.

BC 2142 was bad for several reason. These are the two that had me write it off:

1/ Skill had a LOT less impact in game than pure luck due to the horrible weapon accuracy and the very low damage of individual hits. You where safer running to a guy with your knife i the hand than trying to shoot him down.2/ The balance was off. Way off. For instance, anyone remember the grenade spam in the titan's corridors ? With only two people, you could hold off an unlimited number of attackers with very little chance for them of getting pass you. With 3 people, it was impossible.

BC 2142 was bad for several reason. These are the two that had me write it off:

1/ Skill had a LOT less impact in game than pure luck due to the horrible weapon accuracy and the very low damage of individual hits. You where safer running to a guy with your knife i the hand than trying to shoot him down.2/ The balance was off. Way off. For instance, anyone remember the grenade spam in the titan's corridors ? With only two people, you could hold off an unlimited number of attackers with very little chance for them of getting pass you. With 3 people, it was impossible.

Yea... put some mines or c4 in the corridor, plop down a sniper or a machine gunner and you could hold down that fort for ages against an entire team if you also had a medic doing a revive or two. Easiest way to take down a Titan was trying to get in there as fast as possible in the beginning before the other team realized to actually defend. The Walkers were pretty OP as well, you could mown down entire teams with just one if you were good enough at avoiding rockets.

So, they have totally abandon WWII play. While I'm sure many people were getting tired of the historical setting, it provided an opportunity for more balanced play IMHO. Besides, I agree with an earlier poster, WWII planes rock for flying. I'll stick to Forgotten Hope and wait for them to mod BF3.

Personally I think WWII is the perfect time period for a combined arms game like battlefield, or maybe Vietnam. You have planes, tanks and all that but things just weren't as deadly as they are in modern times. The single thing that drove me away from bf2, more than the horrific hit detection and dolphin diving was the balance between air and ground combat, jet in particular were just WAYYY too powerful to make for any interesting gameplay on any map that included them. That imbalance drove away myself, srikanth, blarno, and tantric from bf2, I hope to god DICE has realized that just because the planes are realistically that powerful, or even more, doesn't mean that makes for good gameplay. Especially when only a tiny fraction of a team is in an air vehicle at any given time. I will be sorely disappointed if a single tank shell doesn't obliterate a chopper, that was the best fun in Desert Combat, sniping choppers with the tank main gun, or even better artillery guns.

-Aiming for CY Q4 2011 release-Concept for BF3 has been in the works for years, waiting on proper tech to seamlessly come together-Frosbite 2.0 is the culmination of this tech, entirely re-written-Lighting sounds neat, one “probe” contains more lighting information than an entire BFBC2 level.-Level destruction is going to be “believable” but basically everything is destructible.-Character animations powered by ANT, what EA Sports uses.-AI characters and multiplayer characters have different animation sets-No more “gliding” animations that look off, animation realism is a focus-Captured their own war audios (bullets, tanks, helicopters, etc) at different distances to ensure realism-Better audio cues for certain actions, more easily able to listen for threats-Plan on better, more immediate post release content-More unlocks than BFBC2-Dice trying to find a good balance between customization of your character and not having “pink rabbit hat(s)”-4 classes-Will talk about squads “later”-Looking into a theater mode but can’t talk about it-Will have co-op-There will be a kill-cam but it can be turned off-BF3′s team is almost twice as big as the team for BFBC2-They want the pacing of the single player mode to be balanced, with highs and lows. Makes the comparison to a song vs a guitar solo.-Part of the single player mode takes place in Sulaymaniyah – Iraqi Kurdistan.-“Fuck” will be used often, so M rated for sure-There will be an earthquake in a level. The destruction sounds very impressive. 7 story building collapses, looks very well done-Significant narrative that goes with the SP mode-More than one setting, you’re not in the middle east for the whole game-PC version is lead version-Why 64 players for PC only? No complains from the console crowd.-No mod tools at release. Maybe none down the line either. Frosbite 2.0 is complex and mods tools would have to be dumbed down, so does Dice really want to put their time to that or would it be better spent elsewhere?-Original story, not based on Bad Company at all.

Actually the AA vehicles were quite good at taking out jets. What needs to happen is give jets only one use of Chaffe. Don't let it recycle. That will make them easier to take down.

Though I always did love taking down jets with my tank while they swooped in for a bombing run.

Then you met some bad pilots sir. The mobile AA *could* take down a helicopter, but you were lucky to get one hit on a jet before it was gone + the pilot would just repair. The fixed AA was completely useless because all the pilots had the spots memorized. There really needed to be an infantry weapon where you could threaten planes, like in BF2142.

And if you were hitting jets with tank shells those jet pilots had no business being in a plane. it got really old playing where one jet pilot could just completely dominate a map. Or even better you got the two top pilots on the same team and there was zero incentive for them to balance it out.

And if you were hitting jets with tank shells those jet pilots had no business being in a plane. it got really old playing where one jet pilot could just completely dominate a map. Or even better you got the two top pilots on the same team and there was zero incentive for them to balance it out.

right. With al the "nice" stuff like TK for vehicle, the J-10 "unkillable plane" and constant base raping.

Actually the J-10 was slightly balanced in one of the last couple of patches. now F35's can actually kill.

But can anything on the ground kill it ? I admit I didn't play the last couple of patches but, when I stopped playing, it was pretty ridiculous: once you where in the air, unless you got really unlucky (stray tank shell or mid-air collision), a good player had nothing to fear from any weapon, air or land based, and could kill everything on the map.

They need to work on the vehicles make them just a little bit more sim like than the BC2/BF2 vehicles.

Vehicle controls need to be better than BC2 they feel wrong still now, helicopter is not responsive, tanks are sluggish etc.

The better have actual 64 player maps balanced for 64 players, not 24-32 player maps with the PC allowed to have 64 players.

6 man squads would be nice, and probably essential if the above is true (64 player maps) or even choosing your squad size, I wonder of they will keep the spawn on any squad member or go back to squad leaders?

Comm rose please, context orders are okay but sometimes I want ammo without having to actually be able to see an ammo guy. I also want to be able to say thanks.

Not too worried about the classes, I actually think BC2 is okay from a gameplay perspective if not a 'real war hiding in my bunker, gun nut perspective'

That I was aware of not only was directional damage in BC2 (hitting the back of the tank matters more than hitting the front of the tank) but also the angle of impact - hit it perpendicularly, not at some 10% angle or most of the damage just fritters away.

-Alpha

Quote:

But can anything on the ground kill it ? I admit I didn't play the last couple of patches but, when I stopped playing, it was pretty ridiculous: once you where in the air, unless you got really unlucky (stray tank shell or mid-air collision), a good player had nothing to fear from any weapon, air or land based, and could kill everything on the map.

I don't particularly see a need for an infantryman to be able to kill a jet, but I WOULD like strong, effective, mobile (vehicle based) AA. Jets should know to stay the fuck away from it.

That I was aware of not only was directional damage in BC2 (hitting the back of the tank matters more than hitting the front of the tank) but also the angle of impact - hit it perpendicularly, not at some 10% angle or most of the damage just fritters away.

-Alpha

This is there too, angle matters on side and back of tanks/apcs. Straight in shots have a 2.0x multiplier vs a frontal shot, which can be mitigated by angle down to 1.2x of a frontal shot. Frontal shots always have a 1.0 multiplier.

I'd like jets to be a counter to helos (and other jets) but have a relatively low impact on infantry (perhaps via very limited bomb ammo). Likewise, infantry should be no threat to a jet, except with lucky shots from an AT rocket.Mobile AA should be a good anti-jet weapon but it needs to be balanced so that mobile AA can kill jets but don't become overpowered against helos. I don't know how that can be done though, since logically anything that can shoot down a jet is going to totally own a slow-moving helo.

Only 24 players on console sucks. I was really hoping they could get to 40 or so, since you got 32 on the relatively small maps of CoD. I guess I'll be doing this on PC then.

Apparently we can mount our weapon to defend dying buddies. I'm assuming this isn't a euphemism for teabagging.

Unpredictability is needed. So you need an infantry Anti-Air weapon. Knowing where all the static AA's are, and where the mobile spawns, makes it too easy.

Yeah. A staple tactic for pilots was to fly in wide circles and strafe anything on the ground that was a threat to them. Dice's continual silence on this issue since BF2 itself is / has always been deafening.

Good BF2 choppering was based around pre-emptive strikes and map knowledge, kind of like quake skills.

Pre-emptive hits on stinger sites/jeeps/AA vehicles with a encyclopaedic knowledge of respawn times.Scouting with TVGsGunner spotting

Adding in effective player born AA makes things alot more difficult.

It's like this for all BF games, everything feels balanced until the vehicle guys learn the maps inside out once I have hundreds of hours in the helo, I know every inch of every map I can tell you the location of every stinger/mobile for AA.

Then you met some bad pilots sir. The mobile AA *could* take down a helicopter, but you were lucky to get one hit on a jet before it was gone + the pilot would just repair. The fixed AA was completely useless because all the pilots had the spots memorized. There really needed to be an infantry weapon where you could threaten planes, like in BF2142.

And if you were hitting jets with tank shells those jet pilots had no business being in a plane. it got really old playing where one jet pilot could just completely dominate a map. Or even better you got the two top pilots on the same team and there was zero incentive for them to balance it out

After the major air AA patch, it was bordering on the opposite direction. Ground AA still had a range issue, but unless you stayed on top of the AA, it would rip you apart. Missiles went from being completely laughable to literally doing 0-point 180 degree turns.

The J-10/F-18/Mig-29 could all sometimes kinda dodge missiles, if they went to full burn turns, but often that left you in a defensive mode forever. And it completely RUINED air to air combat. We went from having some ridiculously good dogfights air to air because missiles were so virtually useless to having air to air being either whoever didn't get the F-35 or whoever got the drop first. I realize to some degree some of this is "realistic", but... since when is that a factor?

The single best thing they could have done to nerf air was not what they did, but rather require an actual landing to rearm. Being able to reload at full speed was... bad.

The other real problem was the bomber's, though they mostly vanished after the air patch. The combination of 5 bombs and the LGM if you had a copilot, plus easy casual reloading meant an unopposed Su was just... a nightmare. Ask Psion sometime about his killcount when I kept both F-35's off him prior to the air patch on Oman.

I am not sure games like this set in the future are futuristic enough. With the advent of more sofisticated drones and autonomous and semi-autonomous ground based fighting vehicals, I believe the face of warfare will, in 20 years, be radically different.

I think manned jets for instance, will be obsolete in 20 years. You will have high speed drone aircraft, cheaper, faster and more maneuverable, being able to take them out in numbers such that no pilot will want to fly. Ground based sentry robots that are available today http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/1873/automated-killer-robots-threat-humanity as well as other military robots will advance and we will be looking at a semi automated strike force.

Welcome to skynet...

I guess its why I like the original BF1942, and why I play Forgotten Hope Mod over BF2.

In regards to air support, I could see classes getting unlocks to call in support.

Much like wookies got the mortar strike, you could give other classes indirect or direct support items.

Anti air drones that can be called in.Mini Drones with one shot hellfires, or can be used to near air scout / markA10 designators - whizzzz.. BRBBRRRPRPRPRPPPPPPP Arty designator - Range drop 10, left 15, fire for effect *bababababaoooooom*Transcievers - can be stuck to tanks, buildings, whatever, indirect fire can be called in by other classes and will home in (plantable version of the tracer dot)

Unlock stingers or other air to air weaponry that replaces the alternate weapon for specific classesTone & lock designators. you get a lock on the target, off map defenses will kick in and lob flak/missiles at the target.

I disagree with that because it means that there's virtually no real opportunity cost to be paid for it. If all I need to do is unlock a generic "Airplane, fuck off" option, then hell yeah I'm going to unlock that and keep it equipped all the goddamn time. So is everyone else. To the point where getting in an airplane or helicopter is going to be an exercise in "how quickly do i get shot down by all of the infantry that is about to tell me to fuck off?"

Random Stinger kits (ala Desert Combat) at the very least operate on the principle that if you're an infantry guy you have to sacrifice EVERYTHING (IIRC the Stinger kit was a stinger and a pistol with limited ammo) to get the rare Infantry > Airplane counter.