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MBB Consulting Q&A

2/25/13 update: Ampharos has now been working in consulting for 5+ months and said he can continue answering questions regarding MBB, recruiting, breaking in, day to day life, etc, ask away!

Hi Guys,

5+ months ago I started working at my top-choice MBB firm full time after receiving my offer through the company's accelerated interviewing process. I've gotten a lot of help (and entertainment) from this forum so I'd love to give back and answer any questions or give some advice/insight on interviewing, networking, etc.

I was a career counselor at my school focusing on consulting primarily helping MBAs and undergrads with case prep, so I'm familiar with a lot of the issues people have and will try to give professional, no-BS answers.

I'd prefer not to disclose the firm, my school, or my internship firm for obvious reasons so let's try to avoid those.

second.... I'm working full time at provincial government health agency, operations anaylst role, I have a diploma from a college and i just started at university geting my degree (they are putting me into 3rd year) so considering I am a few years away from actually applying which of the many "consulting training programs" would you recommend I use to practise and gear up to be a strong applicant?

2. The free resources (videos and articles) from Victor Cheng were very helpful to me. I personally got his Look Over My Shoulder system which I thought was really useful as well, but it's optional.

3. Do you mean pro-bono volunteer as in student organizations or as in a large nonprofit strategy firm? For both the former and latter I think they're great, but for the latter, I'll admit I'm unfamiliar with the exit opportunities for them.

4. I had my interview process accelerated due to an exploding offer from my internship firm. I had my final round interviews and received my offer before regular students had their first round interviews.

The way it works is this: There are MBA and BBA peer counselors, with about 3x as many MBA peer counselors. BBAs and MBAs can both go to either age group counselor to get help. For me, I just happen to have a lot more MBAs coming to ask me questions/run cases than undergrads. This is probably just because MBAs tend to seek out help more than the BBAs, and just a lot of people want consulting help so the MBA counselors run out of slots.

Hey Thanks for posting. I would love to connect and pick your brain about a few things. I have my final round at an MBB in a week and a half. This is my dream situation and I networked pretty hard to get the initial interview.

I would love to get your thoughts on really standing out especially at the final round point. I am from a non-target with a mediocore GPA (similar to the above) and am currently doing Teach For America.

Ampharos:

Hi Guys,

Long time reader, relatively new poster, plus I lost credentials to my older account.

Anyways, I just accepted an offer from my top-choice MBB firm a week ago after receiving it through the company's accelerated interviewing process. I've gotten a lot of help (and entertainment) from this forum so I'd love to give back and answer any questions or give some advice and insight on interviewing, networking, etc.

I'm a designated career counselor at my school focusing on consulting primarily helping MBAs with case prep for some reason, so I'm familiar with a lot of the issues people have and will try to give professional, no-BS answers.

I'd prefer not to disclose the firm, my school, or my internship firm for obvious reasons so let's try to avoid those.

Congrats to that offer! I'm currently a junior seeking to work at MBB post-grad. So I have a few questions in regards to your situation.

1. I thought MBBs don't do accelerated interview process? Or is this because you knew someone and had an offer on hand? And how is this process different than standard?

2. For MBB, do you think it's best to go for tier 2 consulting firms, or to recruit for BB SA positions as well? If Management Consulting is what I want to do immediate after graduation?

3. Who did you practice with? Friends, older students with experience, then professionals at MBB or consulting firms? And what do you think is the best way of approaching professionals to practice cases?

Congrats to that offer! I'm currently a junior seeking to work at MBB post-grad. So I have a few questions in regards to your situation.

1. I thought MBBs don't do accelerated interview process? Or is this because you knew someone and had an offer on hand? And how is this process different than standard?

2. For MBB, do you think it's best to go for tier 2 consulting firms, or to recruit for BB SA positions as well? If Management Consulting is what I want to do immediate after graduation?

3. Who did you practice with? Friends, older students with experience, then professionals at MBB or consulting firms? And what do you think is the best way of approaching professionals to practice cases?

Thanks again, and congrats! Have fun with rest of the year!

1. I've heard mixed things, but I've known people who've done accelerated with all three, and saw a healthy group of people at my accelerated final rounds (half a week before regular first rounds) at the office when I went. Part of it was definitely having good conversations with the people I reached out to, but I think the bigger player here was the exploding offer at a competitor. They also still looked at my resume of course. The process was the same, the interview rounds the same, etc. Only difference was my first rounds were over the phone, and with slightly higher level people than they normally use for first rounds.

2. It really goes either way. Every year my school has a tradition of BB or elite boutique IBD interns => MBB FT because they realize they hate banking, and most of the rest are from Tier 2s with the occasional marketing/corp fin kid. That being said, I still recommend you recruit for Banking if you think you have the time to do the preparation because despite Tier 2 being a step below, they still don't necessarily take that many people. Do both if you can; regardless hustle hard for consulting and try to get yourself a backup.

3. I cased a lot with other friends in consulting, as well as older students who had successfully gone through the process. I did have a few practice cases with professionals at MBB, but those were usually people I had networked with asking me, and less the other way around. I think the best way to get a no BS view is still to ask older students, seniors with accepted offers for example, to help because they tended to give me cold facts without the company line.

1) At my school, all the consulting firms ask for my transcript when applying through OCR. My GPA's decent enough, but if somebody (especially an alum) looked at it, they'd notice that it's a bit screwed up (i.e. change of major multiple times, lots of pass/fails and withdraws, a few gut classes) - am I screwed for MBB? How about boutiques like Parthenon, LEK?

2) How easy is it to get interviews with MBB for FT if you're coming off an SA internship with a top Asset Management firm? How about if you did your internship with a Tier 2 investment bank (i.e. not BB or Elite Boutique)? Which would you recommend - the former has more brand name, but the latter would be tougher work?

3) The same as above, but how easy would it be to go from those internships to Tier 2 consulting firms?

How do you recommend non-target applicants to approach recruiting and networking if the alumni base at the target office location is pretty much nonexistent? Also, can you touch on what kind of attributes typically stick out to recruiters in peoples' past experiences? Thank you.

Who did you reach out to when looking for the accelerated interview process, and how did you bring up the topic?
I am in a similar boat as you were; I'm deciding between a second tier consulting firm and a BB non-IBD offer.

Who did you reach out to when looking for the accelerated interview process, and how did you bring up the topic?
I am in a similar boat as you were; I'm deciding between a second tier consulting firm and a BB non-IBD offer.

There are two main ways to get an accelerated interview. One is to get a guaranteed accelerated interview from the firm during internship recruiting b/c you performed very well. The other is to have an exploding offer from a different company.

In the first case, the firm will reach out to you at the end of the summer to arrange the interview. In the second case, you reach out to the recruiting lead for your school (or a FT consultant with whom you've built a good relationship) and let them know that you have an offer from firm X but would love to have a chance to interview with his/her firm as well.

I'm a junior Econ major at a public target. I finished up consulting recruiting for summer internships and it was a blood bath. MBB rejections, 2nd tier rejections, boutique rejections. I didn't even get a single interview. It's been a pretty demoralizing ordeal. I have 3 questions.

1) I have a few options for summer internships, what would you suggest would put me in a prime position for FT in the fall? F500 Corp. finance? Non-profit/interest group? Tech start up biz dev? Policy work (House of Representatives/ Senate/ Lobbying firms)?

2) I didn't reach out/ network. I know, you're probably thinking "Well there's your problem." but I genuinely thought I had a strong resume (~3.7 GPA, engineering minor, strong internships) and that my merit would get me interviews. I was wrong. How should I go about networking for FT? Cold emails? LinkedIn inMail? Alumni data base? I imagine consultants (MBB especially) are inundated by desperate undergrads looking to make connections, how'd you stick out and establish meaningful relations?

I'll take this one since it's quick. Provided you update your resume well, you should be able to get interviews for at least one of MBB without even really trying. Add in some networking and you shouldn't have any problem getting the interviews you want.

That said, that's simply the interview, and from there it's all up to you. Firms won't give you the benefit of the doubt just because you worked in IBD over the summer. That said, a good number of people in the office were BBIBD in a past life.

That said, that's simply the interview, and from there it's all up to you.

I've heard this phrase numerous times; can't you be dinged after a few interviews solely due to low GPA? The WallStreetPlayboys post says otherwise:

WallStreetPlayboys:

When we entered the conference room, of the ~8 candidates, we killed 4 of them on Technicals (missing easy ones, depreciation on 3 statements, basic DCF, PE multiples on private companies) and then dropped one off for having a sub 3.5GPA (had a 3.2GPA).

That said, that's simply the interview, and from there it's all up to you.

I've heard this phrase numerous times; can't you be dinged after a few interviews solely due to low GPA? The WallStreetPlayboys post says otherwise:

WallStreetPlayboys:

When we entered the conference room, of the ~8 candidates, we killed 4 of them on Technicals (missing easy ones, depreciation on 3 statements, basic DCF, PE multiples on private companies) and then dropped one off for having a sub 3.5GPA (had a 3.2GPA).

1) Whenever I've had to look over applications, I don't think I've ever needed to look at someone's transcript honestly. I think they're scrutinized perhaps a bit more if some of your details are suspicious. It might be brought up in interviews, but if it fits with your stories I wouldn't really be too concerned.

2) I think both would be fine, the former probably having the edge due to improved name recognition.

3) Arguably easier, though depending on the Tier 2 firm - anecdotal experience leads me to believe that some Tier 2s are harder to get interviews for than MBBs...

4) Depends on the extent to which you need it. The weaker your resume/stats are, the more critical networking well be. If you're a rockstar on paper, it's very possible that you can get all the interviews you need without any networking. Given the importance of recruiting, obviously err on the side of caution. If anything, more networking will help you have better answers for "why company X" if and when you get the interviews.

For what it's worth, in my experience consulting has noticeably less nepotism in its recruiting process than banking. You very rarely hear stories of "he only got the offer because of his dad/uncle/friend" that are rather plentiful in finance recruiting. When you're in the interview room, either you get the case that day or you don't, regardless of who you're connected to.

Thanks a ton for doing this. These are extremely helpful and are few and far between on the Consulting Forum. I SB'd you for your efforts.

1. I went to a decent non-target (think UC Santa Barbara, Boston University, Fordham, etc) and have worked at a niche consulting firm for the past six months (think Triage, Towers Watson, etc). My end goal is MBB, with the following long term strategy: Current firm for another six months / year --> Lateral to PwC / Deloitte Consulting --> Kill the GMAT --> Top 10 MBA --> MBB. How do 2nd/3rd tier consulting firms feel about laterals from other consulting firms? If I do extensive networking, is it feasible to lateral into something like OW or Parthenon? Do these type of firms interview post undergrad consultants?

2. What did you use for case material? Did you use Case in Point? How many hours would you say you practiced prior to being "great" at case interviews?

What are you guys doing during a M&A process? I have seen MBB guys workjing on the DD on a deal but is this all that MBB does? And what exactly are you guys doing since the majority of stuff regarding DD is covered by the Big4. I mean, there a corporate finance or M&A groups at MBB but what exactly are they doing?

Anything's possible. Someone at my office started their own company in high school, ran it successfully before selling it to a larger firm integrating horizontally, went to college, then joined up to gain wider business knowledge.

The recruiting path you'd take obviously would depend on level, education, etc. but I think having an entrepreneurial streak is definitely not a bad thing.

1) What's honestly most interesting to you. I think the safest bet would probably be F500 - anything with brand cachet probably helps resume screeners affix some kind of value to what you did.

2) Alumni database, friends of friends, whatever it takes to get a lead. Email HR and ask for helpful contacts if you must - you'll find consulting firms are by and large less hostile than banks can be. Emailing off-cycle, i.e. over the summer when recruiters aren't getting torrents of emails like after an event, can be a good way to stand out.

3) I generally like it, it has its ups and downs. I'm still getting the hang of things since I'm not naturally a very detail-oriented person. The level of influence I can have on things still kind of amazes me and without even really trying I feel like I've learned a lot about various fields as well as standard powerpoint/excel know-how. Co-workers are great and it's been a pretty positive experience overall; they say it gets better as you get more acclimated.

Thanks a ton for doing this. These are extremely helpful and are few and far between on the Consulting Forum. I SB'd you for your efforts.

1. I went to a decent non-target (think UC Santa Barbara, Boston University, Fordham, etc) and have worked at a niche consulting firm for the past six months (think Triage, Towers Watson, etc). My end goal is MBB, with the following long term strategy: Current firm for another six months / year --> Lateral to PwC / Deloitte Consulting --> Kill the GMAT --> Top 10 MBA --> MBB. How do 2nd/3rd tier consulting firms feel about laterals from other consulting firms? If I do extensive networking, is it feasible to lateral into something like OW or Parthenon? Do these type of firms interview post undergrad consultants?

2. What did you use for case material? Did you use Case in Point? How many hours would you say you practiced prior to being "great" at case interviews?

Thanks.

1. To put up a disclaimer, I will be the first to admit that recruiting outside of university cycles is not my area of expertise and the following is just my opinion based on anecdotes. That being said, while I would say it's possible, but generally difficult. Larger consulting firms tend to have rather structured pre-grad analyst programs so while I wouldn't say it's impossible to lateral in, it would require a good amount of networking and perhaps luck.

One of the criticisms of the current tier structure I guess is that while it might reflect prestige, it's by no means reflective of ease of entry. To my knowledge, the pool of schools OW and Parthenon recruit from is substantially smaller than that of MBB. PwC and Deloitte Consulting on the other hand are substantially larger firms that should be much more accessible. Not substantially easier to pass interviews with, mind you, but probably easier to get in front of in the first place.

2. I used tons of practice cases. Google "filetype:pdf _________ casebook" with the blank being the business school of your choice. You can rack up dozens. I skimmed through Case in Point but found it unnecessarily complex so I quickly discarded it. I'm personally also of the Victor Cheng camp, and used his free (and paid) materials to good effect. My number for "great" is probably irrelevant to you, but I'd say roughly 40 or so of live practice (both giving interviews and receiving). That said, I have friends who did 10 practice cases and then nailed 2 out of 3 offers for MBB, so your mileage may vary.

1) Whenever I've had to look over applications, I don't think I've ever needed to look at someone's transcript honestly. I think they're scrutinized perhaps a bit more if some of your details are suspicious. It might be brought up in interviews, but if it fits with your stories I wouldn't really be too concerned.

2) I think both would be fine, the former probably having the edge due to improved name recognition.

3) Arguably easier, though depending on the Tier 2 firm - anecdotal experience leads me to believe that some Tier 2s are harder to get interviews for than MBBs...

4) Depends on the extent to which you need it. The weaker your resume/stats are, the more critical networking well be. If you're a rockstar on paper, it's very possible that you can get all the interviews you need without any networking. Given the importance of recruiting, obviously err on the side of caution. If anything, more networking will help you have better answers for "why company X" if and when you get the interviews.

For what it's worth, in my experience consulting has noticeably less nepotism in its recruiting process than banking. You very rarely hear stories of "he only got the offer because of his dad/uncle/friend" that are rather plentiful in finance recruiting. When you're in the interview room, either you get the case that day or you don't, regardless of who you're connected to.

hey ampharos, thanks for hosting this thread. I was wondering 1. how much MBB value sophomore internships in recruiting for their third year internships. 2.What's the typical conversion ratio from summer to full-time now? 3. Would you ever recommend someone do ibd for a technical skillset and then do a mbb job to develop those critical thinking skills? Thanks a lot!

What are you guys doing during a M&A process? I have seen MBB guys workjing on the DD on a deal but is this all that MBB does? And what exactly are you guys doing since the majority of stuff regarding DD is covered by the Big4. I mean, there a corporate finance or M&A groups at MBB but what exactly are they doing?

hey ampharos, thanks for hosting this thread. I was wondering 1. how much MBB value sophomore internships in recruiting for their third year internships. 2.What's the typical conversion ratio from summer to full-time now? 3. Would you ever recommend someone do ibd for a technical skillset and then do a mbb job to develop those critical thinking skills? Thanks a lot!

1. A good amount. In general just showing you did something to demonstrate an interest in business or work is generally good, the more "legitimate" the better; e.g. Deutsche IBD, Deloitte BTA, Accenture MCDP, P&G, Google BOLD, Goldman Ops all have sophomore programs, but really any internship is fine if you spin it well. F500 would be great but I interned with a small tech firm doing marketing stuff near home.

2. Pretty high. Across the board I don't know anyone at any Tier 1,2, or 3 consulting firm who didn't get a return offer besides people who made outrageously poor choices.

3. That's honestly up to you, but I can tell you it's not an uncommon route. 3/5 of my interviewers were bankers in either internships or another life. Sure, the Finance kids had better Excel skills, but they weren't honestly that much ahead than people who did anything else. Straight up, the kids who have fared the best so far consulted over their internships, either at our company or another.

What are you guys doing during a M&A process? I have seen MBB guys workjing on the DD on a deal but is this all that MBB does? And what exactly are you guys doing since the majority of stuff regarding DD is covered by the Big4. I mean, there a corporate finance or M&A groups at MBB but what exactly are they doing?

Cheers!

So MBB does a lot of DD, particularly McKinsey and Bain to my knowledge. I haven't worked on a PE related project and don't come from a finance background, so take everything said here with a grain of salt (it's just conjecture from what I hear). I think the DD work MBB does is not quite the same as the Big 4's. I figure Big 4's would be more from a numerical side whereas MBB DD's are more based around finding growth multiples through industry analysis. As for CF and M&A groups, I honestly don't know - company websites could probably help more than I could haha.

A question came up while my friend was considering HBS 2+2 -> Can you get into post mba MBB role from top MBA with just having two years of MM/BBIBD experience, or maybe even two years of GE FMP? Or do they look for minimum of three years of pre MBA work ex?

the conversion rate for summer to FT is really that high at MBB? specifically bain, as i know a few people who didn't get return offers.

this is probably going to depend a good deal on office as well as firm. from what I hear, southern and midwestern offices are generally pretty easygoing in that regard, whereas say a Bain SF or McKinsey NYC may be more competitive.

but again, yes, I only know of literally one person who did not get a return offer out of maybe the dozen and a half people I've seen summer at MBBs over a few recruiting seasons. getting in is the hard part, doing a sufficiently satisfactory job to prevent yourself from getting fired or not receiving an offer shouldn't really be too difficult (though being a superstar is obviously another story).

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