No, LaFell is a decent number two. From your own admission, I've doubt you've actually seen him play much.

He's never going to set the world on fire as a #2, he'll never make up any dynamic duo a la Jones and White, there are definitely better #2's out there but nonetheless he's a decent second option.

In addition, Greg Olsen is a big player in the passing game, it's not simply Smith or LaFell.

No, I didn't admit I haven't seen him play much, I said I you should know more about the team than me. I've see him play, I know that he has had ample opportunity to establish himself and he hasn't. He doesn't have to set the world on fire as a #2, but he has yet to prove that he is consistent and isn't worth replacing. Olsen on the other hand is a nice player talent wise, but I question is use in the offense.

In todays NFL, I just don't understand how you can warrant paying two players this type of money. I think the titans probably have the 2nd most invested in the RB position, (someone posted a website to see that a few months ago but I don't remember what it is)

I think the Panthers clearly have to do something about this. Sure they ranked 8th in the NFL in rushing, but they also have a QB who accounted for 1/3 of that total. When they drafted Cam many thought they would run the with the RBs and try to protect Cam, that was never the case and with how much they throw the ball there is no need to pay the RBs that much, that could be invested in WRs

What does him being the best DE on his team have to do with anything???

To help illustrate that he is not regarded as being that good on a league wide level and doesn't have 2nd round value on the market IMO. Furthermore, he benefits or at least is perceived as benefitting from playing across from Charles Johnson, who is clearly regarded as a better player of the two

Also, if a young DE is worth a 2nd round pick, then why on Earth would the team get rid of him? And how do they improve as a team? Hardy may be one of things that is right with the team.

No, I didn't admit I haven't seen him play much, I said I you should know more about the team than me. I've see him play, I know that he has had ample opportunity to establish himself and he hasn't. He doesn't have to set the world on fire as a #2, but he has yet to prove that he is consistent and isn't worth replacing. Olsen on the other hand is a nice player talent wise, but I question is use in the offense.

So you don't think he's very good, but you admit you haven't even really seen him play very much. Sounds reasonable.

And if you haven't seen LaFell play, how can you argue that Olsen is being questionably used in our offense? What exactly about his role do you find fault with?

I'm a firm believer in building a team with a concept. It's really the foundation for getting players that fit a role. Carolina doesn't have an identity that I can really see. I don't get what they are doing when they add players.

Honestly, it looks like they add talent -- almost a generic BPA kind of way. They haven't drafted particularly well and traded away first round picks in 2009 and 2010. These should be guys that are part of the core of your team. Guys heading into their prime.

Instead they have no starters out of their first selections in those drafts. Not even depth guys.

It used to be, that they were a power running team that played good defense. Now, I have no idea what kind of team they are. I doubt they do either. They're rudderless without any apparent direction as far as I can tell.

Realistically, they have to determine how they want to go about winning games. Then they need to narrow their scouting to acquire guys that do what they want to do. They just appear to be a collection of talent (dubious at that) and not a team with any kind of concept.

I think it's a good move as CJ has needed someone to take some carries away for the past few years, but paying Greene seems a little too costly right now. At the same time, we have been, other than with CJ, @ finding RBs in the draft. The one we found that could actually compliment him as an UDFA, we let walk to Tampa (Blount).

To help illustrate that he is not regarded as being that good on a league wide level and doesn't have 2nd round value on the market IMO. Furthermore, he benefits or at least is perceived as benefitting from playing across from Charles Johnson, who is clearly regarded as a better player of the two

Also, if a young DE is worth a 2nd round pick, then why on Earth would the team get rid of him? And how do they improve as a team? Hardy may be one of things that is right with the team.

So what, Navarro Bowman isn't worth anything because Patrick Willis is the best ILB on the team? The idea that Hardy simply benefits from playing opposite Johnson is bizarre too. I don't see any of the other top pass rushers having mediocre players become studs opposite them. Also that would simply lend to the idea that Johnson is really good.

as far as why it makes them better, I already spelled that out in the original post I feel like. They have a ton of needs and DE is the one spot where they are looking pretty good. Alexander can replace Hardy. Also they won't be able to pay Hardy when his contract is up in a year or two. They'd be better off allocating those resources elsewhere.

I think it's a good move as CJ has needed someone to take some carries away for the past few years, but paying Greene seems a little too costly right now. At the same time, we have been, other than with CJ, @ finding RBs in the draft. The one we found that could actually compliment him as an UDFA, we let walk to Tampa (Blount).

I agree that they need a decent backup, but to pay him 3 mil when you pay Johnson so much already is asinine.

So you don't think he's very good, but you admit you haven't even really seen him play very much. Sounds reasonable.

And if you haven't seen LaFell play, how can you argue that Olsen is being questionably used in our offense? What exactly about his role do you find fault with?

You really need to learn how to read. Once again, I did NOT say I had not seen him play much. Notice the word NOT. I have seen him play many time on the Panthers and at LSU and I know that he is not any good. You should watch him play a little.

So what, Navarro Bowman isn't worth anything because Patrick Willis is the best ILB on the team? The idea that Hardy simply benefits from playing opposite Johnson is bizarre too. I don't see any of the other top pass rushers having mediocre players become studs opposite them. Also that would simply lend to the idea that Johnson is really good.

as far as why it makes them better, I already spelled that out in the original post I feel like. They have a ton of needs and DE is the one spot where they are looking pretty good. Alexander can replace Hardy. Also they won't be able to pay Hardy when his contract is up in a year or two. They'd be better off allocating those resources elsewhere.

Neither Johnson or Hardy is near the level of Willis or Bowman so come up with comparable players if you want to make a relevant point. As far as benefiting from the play across from you, that exactly what happened with Ray Edwards who's sack total went up when the Vikings got Jared Allen. Ask the Falcons about Ray Edwards.

Neither Johnson or Hardy is near the level of Willis or Bowman so come up with comparable players if you want to make a relevant point. As far as benefiting from the play across from you, that exactly what happened with Ray Edwards who's sack total went up when the Vikings got Jared Allen. Ask the Falcons about Ray Edwards.

Ray Edwards has been hurt and went to play opposite John Abraham. Johnson is one of the elite pass rushers in the game. What else ya got

I will start off by saying that I don't know a whole lot about the ins and outs of the Panthers, but I try to keep up somewhat with every team.

From the outside looking in, it appears as though the new GM is making very good decisions considering the hand he was dealt. This team is a mess where the cap is concerned. In my mind, there are two types of teams with cap problems: A team that was built through great drafts that has now matured and the GM tried too hard to keep its core together, and a team like the Panthers, which has had no real direction so they keep handing money to the talent they do have in hopes of not having the entire thing unravel. There are other teams in a similar situation. The Jets come to mind, as well as the Raiders.

That being said, Gettleman (is that correct?) is doing a lot of good things. The Ginn signing was fairly inexpensive, and brings in a player who will help your team in the field position game. He has also re-signed key role players to reasonable contracts. More than anything, he appears to be going about the overhaul in a very patient and methodical manner. While at first glance the first thought that comes to mind is to dump the whole team and start over from scratch, you still have to field a team come September and doing so would compound the cap problems that are the real issue with the team to begin with. It will likely take 2-3 years to get the cap to a healthy level again no matter what. The key to it is what you do in the draft in those 2-3 offseasons. If you build a strong young core of talent that includes 10-12 starters and another half dozen contributors then you will be looking pretty good going into 2015.

If they release Gross, Williams, Beason and Davis right now they would be $36.6M under the cap in 2014. It would also give them $2.4M in extra cap space right now.

Gotcha...so what happens if they wait until this time next year to release those players? Would the cap savings be considerable less? Because unless it is, it probably isn't worth dropping those guys to save a couple million. Not to mention replacing the players themselves. You can't even find a replacement for Gross for that.

You really need to learn how to read. Once again, I did NOT say I had not seen him play much. Take you time.

Actually you did...every time you have talked about our players. It's clear you really have not watched them a whole lot, and/or the times you may have seen them you almost certainly were not paying close attention.

Without question, the Panthers have some issues that need fixing, but our DE's and Lafell are certainly not among them. You severely underestimate how good Hardy is. Both CJ and Hardy would start for any team in the NFL, and are each special talents in their own rights. By no means was Hardy's performance based on CJ playing across from him.

And the thing you miss about LaFell is that he was the third option behind Steve Smith and Greg Olsen, so was not given the opportunity to put up big numbers in our offense. Also, he is our best blocking WR and often sent out to block for the running game as well as being the downfield blocker in the passing game. But whenever he was called upon to deliver as a receiver, he did. So while I would never call him a top receiver, he is a very solid #2...particularly for what we asked him to do.

Now to the point, what are we doing? Trying to fix the cap mess Marty Hurney left us in, while surrounding our top players with competent ones. As has been stated, we are in cap hell, so need to fix that before we can even think of jumping all in to the FA market.

But while it may seem simple to dump some of our bigger salaries, the reality is that many of those players are still very good. While Gross will almost certainly adjust his salary at some point, the question is whether it will be a cut, restructure, or extension designed to reduce his cap hit. Either way, he won't, nor should he be cut. He's still a very good Tackle, even if he's no longer top five...and we don't have anyone to take his place.

With our LB's, someone mentioned that we cut Anderson who has been rock solid. Well, true, he's been solid, but that's all he's been. He's not special in any way, has questionable instincts and was often out of position, but was being paid like a top shelf LB. As for Beason and Davis, well, once he got back in football shape, Davis was outstanding last year. Really, he's not too far from where he was pre-injury. So while he is getting paid a fair chunk, he's actually worth it. And by all accounts, Beason is expected to be back to 100% this year. And a 100% Beason is one of the better LB's in the league. Truth be told, our LB's are one of the strengths of the team, and the engine that makes us go.

Now our RB's are an issue. Talent-wise I think they are the best group in the league, but the truth is that we don't need nor fully utilize that much talent. Plus, both Williams and Stewart really need more touches to maximize their talents. Just look at how good Williams was last year once Stewart went down. My guess is that we either trade DeAngelo just before the draft or wait to make sure Stewart is recovering well before cutting ties.

Now to the point, what are we doing? Trying to fix the cap mess Marty Hurney left us in, while surrounding our top players with competent ones. As has been stated, we are in cap hell, so need to fix that before we can even think of jumping all in to the FA market.

But while it may seem simple to dump some of our bigger salaries, the reality is that many of those players are still very good. While Gross will almost certainly adjust his salary at some point, the question is whether it will be a cut, restructure, or extension designed to reduce his cap hit. Either way, he won't, nor should he be cut. He's still a very good Tackle, even if he's no longer top five...and we don't have anyone to take his place.

With our LB's, someone mentioned that we cut Anderson who has been rock solid. Well, true, he's been solid, but that's all he's been. He's not special in any way, has questionable instincts and was often out of position, but was being paid like a top shelf LB. As for Beason and Davis, well, once he got back in football shape, Davis was outstanding last year. Really, he's not too far from where he was pre-injury. So while he is getting paid a fair chunk, he's actually worth it. And by all accounts, Beason is expected to be back to 100% this year. And a 100% Beason is one of the better LB's in the league. Truth be told, our LB's are one of the strengths of the team, and the engine that makes us go.

Now our RB's are an issue. Talent-wise I think they are the best group in the league, but the truth is that we don't need nor fully utilize that much talent. Plus, both Williams and Stewart really need more touches to maximize their talents. Just look at how good Williams was last year once Stewart went down. My guess is that we either trade DeAngelo just before the draft or wait to make sure Stewart is recovering well before cutting ties.

DeAngelo will be 30 in a month. I don't think you will be able to find a trading partner for a 30 year old back with his salary.

Gotcha...so what happens if they wait until this time next year to release those players? Would the cap savings be considerable less? Because unless it is, it probably isn't worth dropping those guys to save a couple million. Not to mention replacing the players themselves. You can't even find a replacement for Gross for that.

If they wait until 2014 to cut those players they would only be $13.6M under the cap. A difference of $22M.The whole point of cutting them now would be to swallow the cap penalties in one year and be golden in 2014, and Gross is the key because releasing him would free up the 2013 cap room needed to absorb the other dead money.

Now to the point, what are we doing? Trying to fix the cap mess Marty Hurney left us in, while surrounding our top players with competent ones. As has been stated, we are in cap hell, so need to fix that before we can even think of jumping all in to the FA market.

But while it may seem simple to dump some of our bigger salaries, the reality is that many of those players are still very good.

While those players are very good, the team isn't. So it doesn't make much sense letting those guys be the ball and chain holding the long term success of the franchise back.