Microsoft has released a public Community Tech Preview of Windows Embedded …

Microsoft has announced the Windows Embedded Compact 7 public Community Technology Preview (CTP). Windows Embedded Compact 7 is the next generation of the Windows Embedded CE platform, which according to Microsoft, provides OEMs with the tools and technologies to deliver "the power of Windows 7" across another family of specialized devices, such as slates, portable media players, e-readers, and so on. Hardware manufacturers and developers will get resources to help bring high-performing devices to market quicker with support for multicore CPUs along with the latest ARM-based architecture and tools, including Platform Builder, Visual Studio, Expression Blend, and Silverlight for Windows Embedded.

For consumers, the release will eventually hold the promise of being able to share and manage content across networked devices (including new HDTVs) with Digital Living Network Alliance, a new media library with more codecs and seamless integration with Windows 7-based PCs. The new version also brings a major update to Internet Explorer that includes support for Adobe Flash 10.1.

Enterprise users will have an easier way to connect to corporate e-mail, calendar, and contacts through Microsoft Exchange 2010 AirSync or Microsoft Exchange Server support. They will also get Microsoft Office and Adobe PDF viewers to access documents, and Windows 7 Device Stage to transfer files between PCs and portable devices.

Developers can snag the CTP; to download it, you'll need to use your Windows Live ID to apply for the Windows Embedded Compact program on Microsoft Connect. The platform is expected to be released to manufacturing in the fourth quarter of 2010.

Here's the Microsoft we know and love. Panic ensues after they lose HP to an in-house OS, their designers are instructed to make mock-ups that looks like a blend of iPhone OS, Android and WebOS, they pretend like they've had an ARM tablet strategy all along, pop out a press release announcing new, new tablet OS that people really want this time, and then work furiously to release an unusable rev 1 pile of crap that works and looks nothing like what the mock-ups made it seem it would, spending the next few years getting the product to the point the competitors were at a few years prior.

Surprising that people are bashing Microsoft. Oh the horror, have the trolls gone? Well, at least now they deserve it because they haven't had a single product in this category that warrants any attention at all from consumers. They really have a right to be laughed at, especially if they keep marketing Internet Explorer as "breakthrough and innovative" technology.

Hmmm ... on one side: the more participants in this segment (= mobile/slate OS), the better the products. Plus, I was intrigued by what little we got to see of their Courier UI (and it's been a *very,very* long time since I used the words 'intrigued' and 'Microsoft' in the same sentence)

So naturally, they're going to fuck it up and leave the field to Apple and Google (see: "Kin" or whatever the @#$% that thing is called).

I don't get why MS is taking so much flack here. They've been making this OS for years. Every handheld computer/scanner at my work is running this OS (an older version of this OS obviously).

The form factor is now moving into the mainstream so MS is tailoring their OS to be able to go their too. Everyone is acting like this is a 'me too' move on Microsoft's behalf, but they've been in this segment longer than Google or Apple have. The only difference is that this segment has been largely invisible to anyone outside of corporate IT people for the past decade.

"Also, that mockup - and it *is* a mockup - is meant to be an example of the types of UIs manufacturers can easily create with XAML over C++ applications (Silverlight for Embedded Devices). "

No that isn't a mockup - its ASUS's tablet, its on engadget with a video of people using it.

HOWEVER - MS needs to come up with a solid user interface, one that matches their phone Metro UI. The last thing we want is everyone in their brother coming up with interfaces, at least let us uninstall the crapware like with do with their PCs and have native metro UI.

Here's the Microsoft we know and love. Panic ensues after they lose HP to an in-house OS, their designers are instructed to make mock-ups that looks like a blend of iPhone OS, Android and WebOS, they pretend like they've had an ARM tablet strategy all along, pop out a press release announcing new, new tablet OS that people really want this time, and then work furiously to release an unusable rev 1 pile of crap that works and looks nothing like what the mock-ups made it seem it would, spending the next few years getting the product to the point the competitors were at a few years prior.

And here comes the troll in fuming with anger that Microsoft would dare respond to a failure with something new spreading FUD at the same time.

..., but they've been in this segment longer than Google or Apple have. The only difference is that this segment has been largely invisible to anyone outside of corporate IT people for the past decade.

Largely invisible for a good reason – have you looked at the damn thing???

That's like saying: "Why the hell are y'all bitching about the USSR, they've had cars all along" Of course they did, and every single one of them looked like it fell out of the ugly-tree, hitting every single branch on the way down; same goes for usability, btw.

But I digress ... I'm still curious to see what they'll come up with, and I'll be wishing them the best. It's just that I'm not overly optimistic that they won't make a hash of it.

Here's the Microsoft we know and love. Panic ensues after they lose HP to an in-house OS, their designers are instructed to make mock-ups that looks like a blend of iPhone OS, Android and WebOS, they pretend like they've had an ARM tablet strategy all along, pop out a press release announcing new, new tablet OS that people really want this time, and then work furiously to release an unusable rev 1 pile of crap that works and looks nothing like what the mock-ups made it seem it would, spending the next few years getting the product to the point the competitors were at a few years prior.

And here comes the troll in fuming with anger that Microsoft would dare respond to a failure with something new spreading FUD at the same time.

I have one question for you sir! Are you mad?

Hmm... I thought he was spot on. I am not a techie. Can someone please explain what warrants the use of "7", i.e. what technological common ground do these OSes share? The way the names get made up in Microsoft - in its small ways - tells of how MS loses touch with people. Those kinds of names are self-serving, but does nothing that a name should do, which is to give an identity.

..., but they've been in this segment longer than Google or Apple have. The only difference is that this segment has been largely invisible to anyone outside of corporate IT people for the past decade.

Largely invisible for a good reason – have you looked at the damn thing???

That's like saying: "Why the hell are y'all bitching about the USSR, they've had cars all along" Of course they did, and every single one of them looked like it fell out of the ugly-tree, hitting every single branch on the way down; same goes for usability, btw.

But I digress ... I'm still curious to see what they'll come up with, and I'll be wishing them the best. It's just that I'm not overly optimistic that they won't make a hash of it.

Not only have I looked at them, but I use and support them all day long. The reason they've been ignored is because the hardware costs were so prohibitive, while the hardware itself was so anemic, that they offered nothing of value to consumers.

Windows CE has always done what it needed to do, namely, running overpriced, single function devices. Now devices of this form factor are moving into the consumer space and Microsoft is tailoring the OS they've always had to facilitate this expansion. I'm not saying they're going to do it right or wrong, I'm just arguing against the people who are trying to make it look like MS is jumping on the bandwagon.

Also, your USSR analogy makes no sense. If Lada debut some new, modern electric car and everyone was saying 'lol, look at Russia trying to copy GM, Toyota, Tesla, etc." pointing out that Lada made cars all along and that their most recent endeavor is merely following the same market that everyone else is following (which was enabled by current advance in technology) it would be a pretty valid counterpoint. And while I'm on the topic, Lada made some nice cars, the Niva is still a cult classic.

Hmm... I thought he was spot on. I am not a techie. Can someone please explain what warrants the use of "7", i.e. what technological common ground do these OSes share? The way the names get made up in Microsoft - in its small ways - tells of how MS loses touch with people. Those kinds of names are self-serving, but does nothing that a name should do, which is to give an identity.

I'd assume the main thing warranting the use of the "7" would be the fact that the previous version of Windows CE was Windows CE 6 therefore the next version would likely be called Windows CE 7. But apparently "M$ is teh suck" so the real reason must because they're out of touch and run by bean counters and inept marketing departments.

It has been long standing practice for Microsoft to release Community Technology Previews (CTP) when the software is maturing. It's Microsoft's rather fancy phrase for "Beta", but it's nothing new. CTPs were released for Vista, Win7, Office, Visual Studio and probably every major software project that Microsoft comes up with.

Windows Embedded Compact 7 (Windows Embedded CE 7) is just the newest version of Win CE, a version of Windows designed to run on embedded devices and minimalist computers. Win CE 6 was released way back in November 2006 so it's high time for a new version.

I'm guessing that Win CE 7 has some kind of relation to the Win 7 kernel and share common code, making it a custom version of the Win 7 kernel designed to run on embedded devices. I'm not sure though.

A little bit of background on Win CE :Windows Mobile 6.5 was based on the Win CE 5.2 kernel. The Zune interface was based on Win CE 6 kernel, which led people to speculate that Windows Phone 7 was based on this version as well because of their conceptual similarity. However it's been revealed that Windows Phone 7 is based on Win CE 7. Source : http://blogs.msdn.com/b/obloch/archive/ ... -dead.aspx

Both Ford Sync, and BMW iDrive are both WinCE based... As are a large number of self-checkout Point Of Sales equipment as well as ATM and Public Transport Ticket machines ...

The only issue here, is moving WinCE from dedicated (and invisible) usage, to consumer products for general purchase.

Yes, WinCE / Windows EC7 or whatever you want to call it, is not binary compatible with Windows7, but, iPhone/iPad/iPod and OSX are not binary compatible. What counts is the use ability of the product from the consumer point of view.

Is it a replacement for Win7 tablets? no ... but the iPad is hardly a replacement for the MacBooks ...

All consumers care about is cost, usability, and the ability to surf the web using their favorite technology (and hopefully for the millions of farmville/fishville/TreasureIsland users, the support of Flash) ... (if someone can explain why Jobs thinks the ONLY use of flash is for MP4 video, I would love to understand ... )

... I'm not saying they're going to do it right or wrong, I'm just arguing against the people who are trying to make it look like MS is jumping on the bandwagon. ...

Well, in some respects they are jumping on the bandwagon (target audience, UI & usability focus, etc.) and way, way late to boot, while in others (underlying tech) they aren't ... things are rarely that clear cut.

Yes, prior incarnations worked on devices that vaguely resemble the products popping up in the market today ... were they any good compared to what these new interfaces offer? No, they weren't, not even close. No contest. Whatsoever.

geoken wrote:

... Also, your USSR analogy makes no sense. ..., the Niva is still a cult classic.

Well, of course it doesn't make any sense – I wasn't being serious. But since we're at it ... while the Niva may have had a few nifty/borderline innovative features, it was still a steaming pile of crap and, by any objective measurement, a bad car to boot. "Cult" doesn't necessarily equal "good" (see: 'Morris Marina owners club').

This is disquieting:1- Asus seems to have very nice hardware... but the OS will be one of MS's famed v1.02- I've got no info at all on WinCE7. Features ? backwards compatibility ? openness (as in, dev what you want, install what you want) ? dev tools ? 3- Is it a small update to winCE or the same compatibility-breaking "new paradigm" bullshit they've pulled with Vista and are pulling with WinPhone7 ?4- In what way is it better than Android, except for Asus getting mucho marketing $$ from MS ?

And I'm no fanboy, I did buy an HTC HD2 last week... wouldn't have touched it with a 10-mile pole if it had had WinPhone7 instead of 6.5 though.

... I'm not saying they're going to do it right or wrong, I'm just arguing against the people who are trying to make it look like MS is jumping on the bandwagon. ...

Well, in some respects they are jumping on the bandwagon (target audience, UI & usability focus, etc.) and way, way late to boot, while in others (underlying tech) they aren't ... things are rarely that clear cut.

Yes, prior incarnations worked on devices that vaguely resemble the products popping up in the market today ... were they any good compared to what these new interfaces offer? No, they weren't, not even close. No contest. Whatsoever.

I don't really know how you would define good. These machines were designed for extremely focused tasks and the OSes primary role was to be invisible/provide necessary low level interactions (network support, interaction, etc.).

If you're trying to compare them in terms of usability as a consumer focused product, then yes previous versions of Windows CE completely sucked. But they never even remotely tried to make that so I don't see how it's a fair comparison.

What I don't get is: I can get XP running in a VM in such a way that it only uses 100MB of RAM standing still. And XP predates "minwin". Why can't Microsoft just pare it down and give us a modern version of Windows that sits in 256MB. It doesn't have to have glass or SearchIndexer or WMI or any of that. It just has to run win32 apps.

How hard can that be? They did it in 16 megs fifteen years ago! Why can't we get "NT4 4TABLETS"?

... But they never even remotely tried to make that so I don't see how it's a fair comparison.

I agree

But you gotta pick a hole already ... if CE was in no way comparable to today's consumer products then Microsoft *is* jumping on what you called the bandwagon considerably more so than you'd like to admit.

The only thing I've been saying upthread is that a) there's no black and white here, and b) that while I'm hoping the Redmonders will get a good thing going here, I'm not entirely convinced they'll be able to pull it off smoothly.

... But they never even remotely tried to make that so I don't see how it's a fair comparison.

I agree

But you gotta pick a hole already ... if CE was in no way comparable to today's consumer products then Microsoft *is* jumping on what you called the bandwagon considerably more so than you'd like to admit.

The only thing I've been saying upthread is that a) there's no black and white here, and b) that while I'm hoping the Redmonders will get a good thing going here, I'm not entirely convinced they'll be able to pull it off smoothly.

Windows CE is just the platform of the embedded device for other software/UI to run on top of. This is just version 7 of that OS.

So, because ASUS decided that the embedded device they want to build with CE7 as a base will be a tablet, this is MS jumping on a bandwagon? Sound more like ASUS is and they decided the latest version of CE was the best one to do that with...

PS - People use varioud versions of CE everyday and dont know it. They use the UI and custom software that was developed for the specific application and never know that CE is running under the hood. CE has been around for a long time, just because ASUS decided to use the latest version in a tablet says nothing about MS and any bandwagons. BTW - CE7 began development long before any tabelts or slates were even being thinked of outside of the tabelt pc's MS and partnets have been selling to professionals for years (the pen based ones).

EDIT - Windows CE is suppose to be used by people who build stuff on top of it. If current embedded devices using Windows CE are nothing comparible to today's consuemr products (whatever that means lol), that says more about the embedded device created by company-X than it does about Windows CE.

... So, because ASUS decided that the embedded device they want to build with CE7 as a base will be a tablet, this is MS jumping on a bandwagon? Sound more like ASUS is and they decided the latest version of CE was the best one to do that with...

If that were Microsoft's dream scenario (and somehow I doubt that), I'd be willing to bet serious $$$ that this whole effort will float like the proverbial lead duck.

... So, because ASUS decided that the embedded device they want to build with CE7 as a base will be a tablet, this is MS jumping on a bandwagon? Sound more like ASUS is and they decided the latest version of CE was the best one to do that with...

If that were Microsoft's dream scenario (and somehow I doubt that), I'd be willing to bet serious $$$ that this whole effort will float like the proverbial lead duck.

I said nothing of dream scenarios, just that this cant be MS jumping on anything just because ASUS decided to use CE7 as the platform for their tablet/slate thingy...

I assume your concentrating on "Sound more like ASUS is and they decided the latest version of CE was the best one to do that with.." - I was just making a logical conclusion - if ASUS is decided to use CE7 as the base, they must feel its the best overall solution. Of coruse, I dont know what their requirements are.

Anyway, CE had been around for a long time and is used on a lot mroe devices that people realize. I dont see how ASUS using the latest version for a tablet means anyhing about MS, bandwagons OR dreams...

EDIT - I re-read your reply, and I get now that you meant something like "if MS's dream is, and I dont it is, to use CE7 as the bases for lots of tablets/slates..." Well, I agree that probably isnt their dream - but I never indicated anything close to that idea. Also, why would that fail anyway? I mean, no partner of MS's could build a compelling tablet on top CE7? Why not? Why would it automatically fail?

I agree that Apple's use of 'i' for everything is pretty lame. It's also odd that many other companies likewise adopted it. Nonetheless, it's at least easier to type out than the novellas Microsoft use to identify their products.

I think Microsoft should hire the artist formerly known as 'Prince' to consult for their branding department. Then we'd see some interesting product names!

What I don't get is: I can get XP running in a VM in such a way that it only uses 100MB of RAM standing still. And XP predates "minwin". Why can't Microsoft just pare it down and give us a modern version of Windows that sits in 256MB. It doesn't have to have glass or SearchIndexer or WMI or any of that. It just has to run win32 apps.

How hard can that be? They did it in 16 megs fifteen years ago! Why can't we get "NT4 4TABLETS"?

That's like asking why are cars so expensive today when one could buy a new car for $360 in 1916. I can make you a car for that price but when kind of car are you expecting? Leather seats alone will break the mark.

Microsoft does have OSes of many flavors, what exactly are you looking for?

PSI believe you may be able to run Win7 with 256MB.... if you're brave.