All they needed to do was let dva shoot while boosting, as they plan, and that would have cemented her as THE pharah counter, mercy or not. Everything else is just because Blizzard clearly don’t care about abilities that encourage team work. Their notion that people need to have some gimmick rocket barrage to have fun with dva is a depressing insight on the game

Not really. She’s either holding down DM or holding down her primary fire and boosting in between. There’s no depth in that. Not that it’s necessarily unfun, as I like playing her, but these changes will make her alot more dynamic. Whether they’ll be good is different discussion.

I can’t see any argument for her being more dynamic when one of her pieces of kit are less available, and a new piece of kit is just an extension of her primary attack. No, her depth came from the choices she was able to make, and those choices just got a lot more limited

Edit: I look forward to Blizzard nerfing rein shield because he’s too reliant on it, and mercys heal because she is too reliant on that too

Weakening the dm just encourages the dive meta even more because it takes the ability to reliably defend the back line out of the equation

Not really, since her being in dive in the first place wasn’t to defend the back line but rather protect the Winston and DPS that dived, since DM ate everything. It was her DM botting that encouraged dive meta anyways, so the nerf is also to get OW out of dive.

Thank god.

niaccurshi:

This change removes depth from a character, one of the few characters in the game that had any depth in the first place.

DM botting isn’t depth. Up in Plat/Diamond and above her sole purpose is DM. It gets boring to play as and against, and it’s why there has been a recent rise in Mercy mains migrating to Dva. She’s too easy of a hero and Blizz is trying to flesh her out. Even if she walks away from a fight with low mech health, that’s just ult change for the supports which isn’t healthy for the game. People just need to get used to the fact that her sustainability doesn’t lie with her mech nor DM, it lies with how she can stay on the battlefield.

If she dives in to get a kill but gets de-meched, then thats whats suppose to happen, as it’s no different than when a Winston dives and his barrier gets destroyed before jumps off CD.

Kepil:

With Dva’s changes Blizz want to kill 2 birds with 1 stone, get rid of DM-bot Dva and introduce true counter for pharmercy.

The second point isn’t really that true, as it’s more of an end to dive.

IMO Pharah/Pharmercy will get stronger because the DM is what kept Pharah from dishing out her 120 per shot onto Dva. Basically 5-6 seconds and Dva is de-meched. Sure, she can fight back, but unless her minimissiles are homing or do a large amount of direct damage then she stands only to strengthen Pharmercy.

niaccurshi:

All they needed to do was let dva shoot while boosting, as they plan, and that would have cemented her as THE pharah counter, mercy or not. Everything else is just because Blizzard clearly don’t care about abilities that encourage team work. Their notion that people need to have some gimmick rocket barrage to have fun with dva is a depressing insight on the game

It’s more of dding utility to her arsenal.

She had Boosters and DM. Then close range cannons, and a passive.

She had no E ability, and Blizzard is fleshing out her kit.

niaccurshi:

I can’t see any argument for her being more dynamic when one of her pieces of kit are less available, and a new piece of kit is just an extension of her primary attack. No, her depth came from the choices she was able to make, and those choices just got a lot more limited

Lemme stop you there.

Many people complained about how cheap Hog’s hook was, but the reality was that his Hook was the powerhouse of his kit. When Blizzard nerfed him they tried to distribute the power, which backfired because there was nowhere to move the power, as his gun sucks and his heal does nothing outside of defensive capabilities.

With Dva it’s the same, only they are giving her areas to distribute the power. DM was where all of Dvas power was at, not at her sustainability by de-meching where it should have been.

niaccurshi:

Edit: I look forward to Blizzard nerfing rein shield because he’s too reliant on it, and mercys heal because she is too reliant on that too

Rein has other abilities.

Compare the 2:

Both have shift=movement abilities

Both have toggleable shields

Now Dva is getting a ranged E like Rein.

Mercy on the other hand needs an e ability to flesh out her kit too, as the whole healbotting is whats giving mercy an easy reputation and thus why you see so many Mercy mains.

Then sort out some kind of damage ceiling that “breaks” the DM’s charge to stop that one particular use of DM, don’t nerf its ability to be used as an effective backline tanking tool. All this does is delete an element of Dva’s tank potential.

XplosionIncorporated:

Many people complained about how cheap Hog’s hook was, but the reality was that his Hook was the powerhouse of his kit. When Blizzard nerfed him they tried to distribute the power, which backfired because there was nowhere to move the power, as his gun sucks and his heal does nothing outside of defensive capabilities.

This doesn’t do anything to answer the fact that changing her kit this way does nothing to make her more dynamic, only less. It literally takes one potential use of her off the table in order to lessen another use she is well known for, all to give her another ability that only contributes to her attack potential. That’s not dynamism, it’s the opposite.

Do we have to remember she’s a TANK not an offence character? You cite Rein, his ranged ability is crap as a single use item, yet DVa is going to be able to hard counter pharah mercy thanks to hers?

All I have going around in my head is an alternate world conversation…

“You’re doing what to Griffin?”

“We’re making him more dynamic, we’re going to make it so that he can use his harpoon gun only 50% of the time that he can right now, but as a replacement we’re going to make his sound spikes explode if shot by him to do damage of a level that equals Markov’s mines.”

“So… the trapper is going to become an assault?”

“No, he’ll still be trapper, he’ll just be doing less of the CC because we found that people were using it too much”

That doesn’t really have anything to do with the situation and also might I add there are hybrid roles that everyone usually has in Overwatch. Rein is the classic normal tank, Roadhog is an offense tank hybrid, Zarya is like the in between, Orisa is a defense tank hybrid kinda, so now they’re making Dva the offensive tank hybrid to balance it out kinda. That’s the way I’m looking at it. I still think this change to Dva will be for the better if it even comes out. We’ll only know once it comes out of it does.

Yes it does, they’re taking what is a unique bit of her kit and reducing it to give her pew pews. It’s a direct analogy.

Maximumlimit15:

so now they’re making Dva the offensive tank hybrid to balance it out kinda

With greatest respect, she was already an offence tank hybrid. With these changes she’s just going to be an offence character that has a big HP pool potential. If she can be avoided or bypassed, if she can be quickly killed despite her health, nullified… then she’s not a tank.

I cant think of anywhere I posted that, but… if I did… just to let you know it was a miss meaning in my text.

My rig is actually quite strong. and memory isn’t an issue… I think it happened from doing a shutdown, having a doc open and then coming to the cpu the next day and hitting cancel and then moving forward… (with a lot of the startup programs gone from memory because of that action)

Then sort out some kind of damage ceiling that “breaks” the DM’s charge to stop that one particular use of DM, don’t nerf its ability to be used as an effective backline tanking tool. All this does is delete an element of Dva’s tank potential.

You’re still overlooking her outta mech health…

If Dva died when her mech health reached 0, then I’d be against the nerf, but not when she has too much overlooked survivability.

DM will still be a good ability, but not as forgiving as it currently is. This is adding skill to her, all the while shifting up the meta. I strictly remember all the Dva mains on the OW Forums bitching about how she will have no sustain, yet she frontlines a meta with 2 soft healers being a DM bot. Give the update time to sink in, then start evacuating the building.

niaccurshi:

This doesn’t do anything to answer the fact that changing her kit this way does nothing to make her more dynamic, only less.

I’m looking in terms of both quality and quanity.

It gives her another ability
Said ability allows for mid+ damage
Can shoot while flying = more time to get damage in during an engagement
Works her away from an ability that is wayyyy too forgiving
Shifts up the Meta

The ONLY con about it is that her power is no longer centered around DM. The fact that you’re giving this much resistance is why Hog shouldn’t have been nerfed in the first place, because the unhealthy hook bypassed the unhealthy matrix.

niaccurshi:

in order to lessen another use she is only known for,

FTFY

niaccurshi:

Do we have to remember she’s a TANK not an offence character?

That doesn’t give her the right to sit back and press M2 whenever she feels threatened. NO other tank can enable/disable a shield like she can with DM, and with all the other shields they can be broken.

And since every Tank + Support is migrating to DPS, it shows Blizz that the other heros in the game need some basis in DPS, not just botting a very specific area. It’s why there are so many Mercy mains; shes a heal bot and almost all of the other support mains have converted to DPS.

niaccurshi:

You cite Rein, his ranged ability is crap as a single use item, yet DVa is going to be able to hard counter pharah mercy thanks to hers?

That’s all speculation. I’m waiting for the in-play part of the equation.

niaccurshi:

“We’re making him more dynamic, we’re going to make it so that he can use his harpoon gun only 50% of the time that he can right now, but as a replacement we’re going to make his sound spikes explode if shot by him to do damage of a level that equals Markov’s mines.”

Now you’re just over exaggerating it.

It’s more like Maggie being only good for trap placing while she does 0 damage, a Trap bot. Then TRS would step in and buff her damage and dropped her 5 mines down to 3. Bam. That’s what they did, and they did it without breaking her or nerfing her into the ground.

Plus in OW the boundary of the classes are arbitrary, or else Bastion and Hog would be DPS and Mei would be Tank and Sym would be Defense and Sombra would be Support.

The 4 roles are not cookie-cutter like you want to believe like it was in Evolve. With that said, just because Dva is a tank does not mean she needs to be based around defensive only capabilities. Just like how hog was DPS based.

Maximumlimit15:

so now they’re making Dva the offensive tank hybrid to balance it out kinda.

Her damage came from 3 places:

Short range Cannons

Boosting (short range)

out-of-mech pistol (thus not a factor in her mech or total damage)

Only closed ranged abilities, so they went the Rein route of giving a mid-long range ability. I want to see how it plays out and how it contributes to her damage.

All while getting her away from DM botting.

niaccurshi:

if she can be quickly killed despite her health, nullified… then she’s not a tank.

Still has the highest health pool in the game.

Plus Mercy is getting changes!

Blizz at gamescon said that she has changes in her near-future. I just want her skill floor to be raised, lmao.

I only try and use the DM for a split second anyways. Sometimes i hold it, but its always not necessary. D.Va has insane power advantage when shes out of mech as well. With 0 degrade on weapon damage and the ability to line up with rapid succession pistol shots… she can very much wipe a team with her hand gun.

Not to mention her entire new Life bar as well in Baby D.Va. add that with super ejecting out of her mech and her survivabillity goes up even more…

So many times I see people busted out of the mech and yet, they never chose to catapult themselves away… Its a wasted ability not many even know she can do.