Calvin Pace complains that Pats no-huddle is “borderline illegal”

Posted by Mike Florio on October 18, 2012, 8:49 AM EDT

AP

The man who once described the Miami Wildcat offense as a form of cheating now says that the Patriots’ no-huddle attack is close to it.

“It’s borderline illegal because sometimes the guys aren’t always set when they snap the ball,” Pace said Wednesday, via Rich Cimini of ESPNNewYork.com. “But it’s smart. Why not hurry a team up? I wish we would do it. For a defense, it just puts pressure on you.”

It would make sense for the Jets to adopt the no-huddle given that the Jets eventually copycatted the Wildcat, since Pace thought the Wildcat was more than borderline illegal. At least this time he not only recognizes the potential irony of his remarks — he embraces it.

Of course, teams need to have the personnel to kick the offense into overdrive at the drop of the hat. And it’s not about conditioning; it’s about versatility. That’s why players like Aaron Hernandez are so important to the Pats. He can line up in the slot on an obvious passing down when the defense has a nickel or dime package on the field and then, if the Pats convert, they can go hurry-up to freeze the defensive lineup on the field and shift to a run formation (possibly with Hernandez in the backfield) and pound the ball for a couple of plays against a defensive group aimed at stopping the pass.

Why not do it like in college. You get lined up quick, the QB looks like he’s going to yell hike, then the whole team turns their heads to stare at their coach for 10 seconds or so. LOL. But yeah, everyone should be set or you throw that flag.

Been saying it for years…time to start making it rain yellow hankies. Their offense is notorious for holding and not being set. Tom Brady has more than likely averaged 6 seconds to throw in the pocket over his career. His O-line doesn’t get half the accolades they should, but then that would take some of the shine from the golden boy, wouldn’t it?

Can the Jets go more then a day without looking like a bunch of jackasses?? Borderline illegal =’s Legal

Pace used a poor choice of words. If their not set it is an infraction and should be penalized. His point is sometimes they are set, sometimes they are not, but the absence of flags on the Patriots is something the rest of the league seems to have just accepted…

Most teams that huddle up all the time do it because they don’t have faith in their QB to call multiple plays in the huddle or communicate them quickly enough to the other players from the line or otherwise lack the maturity or mental acuity to run the no-huddle.

That’s why you hear things like how Peyton Manning didn’t run it until his third season, etc.

Additional: the Dolphins are currently leading the NFL in use of the no-huddle offense. The team, according to King and STATS, Inc., ran the no-huddle on 58.9% of their snaps through Week 5 of the season.
And, King goes on to explain, the Dolphins are highly effective in it.

I am no fan of the New England cheaters – the most unethical team in pro sports ever, but I see no problem with the no-huddle offense.

When you have a prima donna quarterback who has an above jockstrap intelligence and a cast of offensive players who also are that intelligent or higher and can comprehend the system, why not hurry things up?

I’ve never understood why it takes so long to run an offense since you should be able to read the defense on the first play to see who is in the game – then you have a choice of plays designed to take advantage of that personnel grouping on the defense and you run that offense until the defense stops you. If you score, of well. You don’t run the defense.

There is far too much specialization on defenses which dilutes their overall ability to play ball effectively. If you actually practice against a no-huddle offense, you learn to have a very effective base defense that won’t give up huge plays and then puts the game back to a man on man excellence. If you, as a defensive player, can’t beat the other man on offense, why are you even playing?

I have no love for the Patriots, but if this is their offense and they are set long enough, then oh well… now, are they set long enough?

Does anyone have any proof to their claims that the pats have to let the defense set before they snap the ball? I don’t recall that being a rule at all. The Patriots have to be set for 1 second before they snap the ball, which it looks to me like they’re doing. Do you have any specific examples in which they aren’t doing?

Also if this gives the patriots such an advantage over the other teams that rules should be changed, why are they only 3-3?

Additional: the Dolphins are currently leading the NFL in use of the no-huddle offense. The team, according to King and STATS, Inc., ran the no-huddle on 58.9% of their snaps through Week 5 of the season.
And, King goes on to explain, the Dolphins are highly effective in it.

Totally agree with tunescribe, why in the hell would an offense wait for a d to get set. That is like waiting for some of non-hustling turds to get off the field on a twelve man penalty. Then again, everybody should get a ribbon in many people’s eyes!

Sigh it used to be pretty much just the Ravens classic tactic to cry like 5 year olds in the press about something or some player on the the other team that is very effective and try and put it under a microscope so the team being whined about gets extra flags.

Now a lot of teams do it.

Hey Pace maybe if your D does its job competently that wouldn’t be an issue.

taintedlombardis says:
Oct 18, 2012 9:18 AM
Been saying it for years…time to start making it rain yellow hankies. Their offense is notorious for holding and not being set. Tom Brady has more than likely averaged 6 seconds to throw in the pocket over his career. His O-line doesn’t get half the accolades they should, but then that would take some of the shine from the golden boy, wouldn’t it?
————-
Congratulations!! You are the winner of this week’s “Crybaby Post of the Week!!” As a reward, we’ll be sending you all three “Three Games to Glory” Pats Super Bowl Champion (no asterisks!) DVD’s!!

He wasn’t complaining. Headline completely written to stir up comments.

And for the record, it is indeed rule-bending by Bill. It takes advantage of the punitive effect of teams who substitute on defense, with the “12 in the huddle” penalty. So you either have to burn a timeout or risk not getting a guy out of the “huddle” defensively while trying to get fresh bodies out there.

The Patriots have false started on some of these and gotten away with it, though.

I’m a Giants fan, and hate the Jets, so I’m by no means siding with Jets fans. But Patriots fans need to learn how to be objective and truthful and just admit it is what it is. To the Patriots’ credit, they know how to push the envelope and be successful with it.

That basically sums it up here, but Pace was NOT “whining” or “crying” (why is that the default comment by brain dead posters who are hopped up on high fructose corn syrup 24/7?)

taintedlombardis says:
Oct 18, 2012 9:18 AM
Been saying it for years…time to start making it rain yellow hankies. Their offense is notorious for holding and not being set. Tom Brady has more than likely averaged 6 seconds to throw in the pocket over his career. His O-line doesn’t get half the accolades they should, but then that would take some of the shine from the golden boy, wouldn’t it?
————-
Congratulations!! You are the winner of this week’s “Crybaby Post of the Week!!” As a reward, we’ll be sending you all three “Three Games to Glory” Pats Super Bowl Champion (no asterisks!) DVD’s!!
————-

Nah, those asterisks ain’t going nowhere, pal. But continue to delude yourself. Only Patriots fans think otherwise. In the eyes of everyone else, that will never change.

Not until the commissh says something to the refs will the pats and now broncos get flagged. Joke on Monday night when Rivers gets a flag for too much hand movement. It was just hard counts and the refs couldn’t catch up. In the 2nd half, broncos were never set. Needless to say, the chargers aren’t any good and deserved to lose.

There is nothing in the rule book to indicate that a Defense has fresh bodies on the field. Heck, I hate the Patriots but, it just seems that they are one step ahead of the rest of the league. Since Spygate, they have had wide receivers play corner, drafted two stud TEs and revolutionized working the middle of the field, gave Danny Woodhead a shot, and now paced it to the point where idiots think it is illegal. Wish the Broncos would do it in the copycat league.

What is so difficult about getting a bunch of pass defense “specialists” to get into position to stop a running play? I understand that it helps to have the big beef in the middle in an obvious running situation, but these guys should be able to at least hold their own for a down or two.

“I’m a Giants fan, and hate the Jets, so I’m by no means siding with Jets fans. But Patriots fans need to learn how to be objective and truthful and just admit it is what it is. To the Patriots’ credit, they know how to push the envelope and be successful with it.”

Wait, Patriots fans need to be objective and call it what it is? You mean something that is completely legal within NFL rules and can be successful if executed properly? Funny how you say it is rule bending and pushing the envelope. As a Giants fan, surely you remember your team “pushing the envelope” by trotting out 12 men onto the field in the Super Bowl and also their display of fake injuries to stop a no-huddle offense earlier in the year. I constantly see you all over these boards calling out fans for not being objective, but it seems like you are the furthest from it about the Giants.

In theory that would be the advantage and should help them win alot of games… except … well … the Pats defense sucks… it couldn’t stop a pop warner team with an average passer right now. (an obvious exageration but you get my point)