June 19, 2016

On "Meet the Press" today, Chuck Todd asked his panel of commentators, "How real is the Dump Trump movement inside the Republican party?" Mark Halperin (of NBC) said "it's real" — not that it's likely to work, but to make it work...

The key... is to not let this be something seen as led by Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, but led by the delegates themselves. There is this movement that you mentioned at the top of the show. Their hope is that that catches on, and they're willing to go--

Chuck Todd popped in with the perfect word:

That it looks organic.

Halperin repeats Todd's word:

That it looks organic and it looks like it's grassroots and that the delegates can trump the voters more easily than people in Washington. Trump talks about it being illegal, it's not illegal. If the delegates decide to do this, they can....

Gwen Ifill (of PBS News Hour) — referring to an interview earlier in the show — didn't think it could look organic:

I don't know after watching that interview with Paul Ryan how you can believe that they can make this seem organic. If you want to lead a movement, you've got to have leaders of that movement. I don't think we have leaders in this Congress. I think they all want to not answer, as we saw Mitch McConnell do. I think the idea that somehow, from the grassroots, people are just going to reach up and do what the leadership wants has never proven to be true.

Jose Diaz-Balart (of MSNBC and Telemundo) likened the effort to seem organic to a balding guy's use of a comb-over:

This reminds me of the, and my dad had this, the big comb-over, you know?... The person with the comb-over thinks you think it looks natural. And that it really is that way. But when you're looking at the person, you're saying, "That's a big comb-over." This thing is being organic and that it comes from the bottom up is a big comb-over. It's a big comb-over. We can see it, everybody's going to see it. And you can say what you wish, if it's coming from all these organized groups, it's a comb-over.

It isn't going to happen. The GOP is stuck with figuring out how to win the presidency with Donald Trump.

My thought about Donald Trump relates back to the advice given to brand new first-level managers: the skills that got you here are not the skills you need to be a success here. What got Donald Trump the nomination is not what he needs to do to convince voters that really would make a good President of the United States. He has just until mid-July to grasp that and then figure out how to do that.

I'm also thinking of something William Manchester wrote about Jack Kennedy. According to Manchester JFK understood that he needed to change (pivot?) from being a candidate in people's minds to being a future president in people's minds. He successfully made the transition. Nixon didn't.

How come our fine liberal friends never complain about countries which openly favor their own ethnic and national interests?

Why is nationalism only evil when we do it? We don't seem to be allowed to look out for our own interests, or jackboots like TV will be sure to show up and call you a bigot for exhibiting rational self interest.

I think the preference of Republican leadership for Clinton over the choice of their own base is the most revealing political event of my lifetime.

Back in the Watergate days I recall an older fellow I knew who viewed all politics with a jaundiced eye telling me that the evident split in DC was illusory. That any political threat from the outside would instantly show the parties to be joined at the hip, reserving their truest venom for interlopers of any other sort. That the political universe was much more spacious than the territory on a line between R and D and that just because the larger space was sparsely populated in the modern US it had not therefore ceased to exist.

Agree with Big Mike. That's the test: does Trump have the smarts and the ability to tone down his off-the-cuff remarks while remaining on the attack? His approach to the primary did certainly prove he had a plan for that and executed it well. I am nervous about his approach to the rest of the campaign given his faux pas over the last two weeks. I will go out on a limb and guess that as a counter-puncher he is waiting to see what Hillary has to say - let her lay out her arguments - then will refute them and go on the attack. ( The Clintons are such a target rich environment.)

I don't see any chance that there will be a revolt at the convention. If there is, the R party is over for a good long time. That McConnell and Ryan are not leading anything is in character for them. If Romney tries anything he'll get run out of town. The real question is where is the $ going to come from to match Hillary's bankroll. I suppose Icahn could do it himself if he wanted and there are some other big buck guys in Trump's corner. As the real campaign nears I suspect fear of Hillary will bring out some quiet $.

The TEA Party was also denigrated by JournoLists as a planned project. Now we know it was not because of their opposition to progressive corruption and democratic exploitation, but because it was not centrally managed by politically correct factions.

Notice how only white racial chauvinists are ever labeled "supremacists"? Which is interesting, since white racial chauvinists/identitarians are probably the least "supremacist" among all the identity-groups infesting the land these days. Definitely got nothin' on La Raza in the fuck-you-other-people racial supremacist department. Probably the only "supremacists" in action today who don't have their snouts in highly lucrative federal troughs, either.

Btw, what the hell is a "racist ethnocentrist"? I guess that's the SJW term for "doubleplusungood" or something.

OK, not a big Trump fan, but if this dump Trump at the convention gains traction and works, I WILL NOT EVER VOTE for a Republican. I will throw away my vote because it just will not mean anything anymore anyway.

The Principles that the Congressional GOP are kowtowing to are clear. It's all about he TPP which contains secret Treaty Law they all know about which gives away American Sovreignty. The amount of money and power at stake for this cabal of traitors secretly killing off the American Republic with their Fast Track surrender to China is just so damn much to lose it. That is their only Principle.

But somehow they must deal with the troublemaker movement being led by Trump. That leader will be under attack from all sides, except the Jacksonian Americans that want to see their own country defended FIRST, and last. Jackson had to deal with Aaron Burr's conspiracy along his way. Ryan's conspiracy will be easy to defeat.

Not organic. I say this as someone who has participated in several RNC "grassroots" Victory 20XX!!! campaigns. I sense very little Trump enthusiasm among the rank and file here, just some wariness and fatalism. The guy got an amazing number of votes - what can you do?

Hope springs eternal in the Neocon breast. If the coup were to be successful, I believe people would start a 'write in Trump' or a 'write in Bernie' campaign. It is unfathomable that they still don't get it.

This is like talking about sharks during summertime. Cuz there isn't much else to talk about.

The chance that the delegates will dump Trump at the convention is as close to zero as one can get without actually being zero.

The one effect this is having though? It's depressing Trumps poll numbers because he isn't getting the "He clinched the nomination" bounce you usually get. Instead, there is a sizeable chunk of the GOP, probably 20%, who are holding out hope that he won't be nominated.

Once he is nominated, the decision will become stark for them and most will get on board, or suffer Hillary. Because that's the binary choice they will be faced with.

Eustace Chilke: I think the preference of Republican leadership for Clinton over the choice of their own base is the most revealing political event of my lifetime.

Back in the Watergate days I recall an older fellow I knew who viewed all politics with a jaundiced eye telling me that the evident split in DC was illusory. That any political threat from the outside would instantly show the parties to be joined at the hip, reserving their truest venom for interlopers of any other sort.

The only difference now is that the scales have fallen from many more eyes.

Unfortunately, I'm afraid that happens only when we're about to go over the cliff.

(Sorry, it's Sunday afternoon, the Father's Day wine is flowing, and I can't be arsed to discipline fractious metaphors.)

That it looks organic and it looks like it's grassroots and that the delegates can trump the voters more easily than people in Washington. Trump talks about it being illegal, it's not illegal. If the delegates decide to do this, they can....

Sure, the delegates can do that -- they aren't elected after all. But any candidate who jumps to support the ersatz nominee is beholden to people who do vote. So this will fail too.

My read is people realize that forcing Trump out would be a terrible move, but there is also the fear that if Trump completely implodes, he will come to be seen as a preventable disaster. This latest effort is probably a cover-your-ass maneuver to allow people to say at least they tried.

My question is whether Trump himself will seek an exit. He is all about selling his brand, and losing badly to a corrupt and unappealing person like Hillary when historical predictors are favorable to Republicans could make him a historically significant object of mockery. On the other hand, that looming possibility could make him start listening to his advisers, too.

Republicans have no idea what to do. They are just in a massive holding pattern, thinking that at least will forestall the total implosion of their party. No one really wants to do anything because they don't want to be seen as responsible for pushing the whole thing over the edge. Witness Paul Ryan saying he supports Trump weeks ago but then doing nothing but criticizing him ever since. Other republics just say jibberish when asked who they will support in November.

Donald Trump, Hillary Clinton, Gary Johnson, and Jill Stein. Now, more than ever, we need a "None of the above" option, with the proviso that if "None of the above" wins a plurality then the whole election has to be done over in six weeks with none of the candidates allowed to run again.

The Blacks: they are ALWAYS going to be the Blacks, and we are stuck with them: the best we can do is contain them so they only foul their own water, like Detroit.

We're OK with the Japs, too, as long as they just play with their toys and maybe make Sex Robots. Sex Robots would be cool, if they're white. Maybe even just a little bit Jewish, but not THAT much.

The Mexicans, though: did we really need them? Who is the Enemy of the White People? The RICH White People, who want the Mexicans to mow their lawns and gardens and the Blacks to not rob them and fuck with us, instead: stay the Fuck away from my Liquor Store, bitches, and don't drink my fucking Pabst Blue Ribbon. Rich White People: you KNOW it is coming.

And the Muslims? What the Fuck? They're like Mexicans with fucking attitude problems. At least some of the Mexicans are Catholic: we don't like Catholics, but they're low on the List.

And the Gays: we're good with the Good Gays, really: the Gays with Guns who'll fight on OUR side. Just don't try to suck our cocks and we'll be OK, gay dudes.

Hagar said...I think it is more like Trump is stuck with trying to win the Presidency with this GOP.

6/19/16, 4:58 PM

Hagar nails it to the wall. Every time one of these fool republicans is asked about Trump, they should immediately launch into a cavalcade of Hillary and Bill's most despicable deceits, lies and crimes. Every time! You ask a republican to explain Trump, you get a faceful of Hillary's dirt- Every Time. The character assassination being done to Trump is terrifying- a person who has been popular and loved for thirty+ years has been turned into Hitler from the Anschluss in less than a year- and the GOP is a co-conspirator.

Truly, we have become a banana republic and are about to slip on the peel!The only rule by which our elected officials live is that the end justifies the means...resulting in their reelection and personal financial gains. The constitution has been denigrated by these officials for so long that the new generations of citizens have no concept of what its words really mean. The tea party was an uprising to stop the transformation; that we have become a banana republic means it failed. Now comes Trump, a true non-politician. His nomination will signify that the ruling class has been fired. Not a statesman among them,politicians all. Of course they don't like it and will fight for every dollar on the table. This includes the hangers-on of the ruling class such as the pundits, the obsequious media, the pollsters, all those basing their livelihood on politics as usual. Wake up, America!

I'm not happy about it either, AprilApple, but Trump got the most votes. He won the nomination fair and square and removing him for someone who didn't receive a single vote would be profoundly anti-democratic. I voted for Cruz but if it is a choice between Trump and the Devil Wears Pantsuits I will vote for him without hesitation.

He might get something things right by accident, liking naming decent justices to SCOTUS. Hillary will do nothing right and the corrupt media will cover her ass, as they are doing for Obama. Plus, one could get some satisfaction from watching the massive leftist temper tantrum that would ensue if Hillary were denied the ultimate prize.

I really don't think he entered the race to help Hillary. His ego is too big to play the patsy.

Organic freerange bullshit is still bullshit. It just costs more at Whole Foods.Your brilliant betters in the Media pay more for their bullshit and they expect you to consume it and thank them for it...their bullshit is definitely not cruelty-free.

The problem with the never trump movement is there is no way they can achieve the result without disenfranchising the majority of the people in their party that voted for Trump. if they got that magical candidate they are not going to get people who voted for Trump who are suddenly deprived their candidate to vote for the alternative to Trump. They'd become NEVER whoever replaced Trump.Further, if they did this and lost, they'd be forever remembered as the party elites who first deprived their electorate of their choice and then couldn't even pull out a victory. I don't know if that would be recoverable. But if they want to try who am I to tell them otherwise.

AprilApplewrote:AprilApple said...If we want to beat Hillary, we must dump Trump.

So, I don't quite get how the first part of your sentence is tied to the second part of your sentence. If we dump Trump who are we voting for? Is there a name? Is there a candidate? Is it David French? are you saying we should all vote Libertarian?

By the way, I'm seeing headlines that say, "Clinton slipping after Florida shooting" and they refer to the new Gravis poll that shows Clinton ahead by +2. They are comparing the Gravis poll to the recent other polls that have her up much more.

And the previous Gravis poll has Clinton at +2. Which is the same as the current poll. Which tells me nothing. Now, if Rasmussen or Bloomberg, or one of the others shows her with a smaller lead, then that headline will make some sense. But it doesn't make sense yet.

jr565 wrote: Further, if they did this and lost, they'd be forever remembered as the party elites who first deprived their electorate of their choice and then couldn't even pull out a victory.

What they could do is what Sen. Sessions suggested today: listen to the electorate -- listen to what they want and reconcile it with whatever drives the GOPe leadership. Hell, they don't have to do anything but acknowledge something. But even that somehow hurts their pride and so they will fall in the Fall.

The Dems have hubristic leadership as well, but the press covers for them. The pres has buried Sanders. Has anyone heard a peep about Sanders lately? Is he on vacation?

"I'm also thinking of something William Manchester wrote about Jack Kennedy. According to Manchester JFK understood that he needed to change (pivot?) from being a candidate in people's minds to being a future president in people's minds. He successfully made the transition. Nixon didn't."

But only because of vote fraud in Chicago and Texas. Oh, wait, Democrats say vote fraud doesn't exist....

There is no serious Dump Trump movement. It is mostly in the minds of "journalists" like this one who really should be on the Hillary payroll, f they aren't already (and then there s George Stephenopolis who actually paid (the Clinton foundation) to be a Clntonista this time around). The Dems and the MSM have a big problem, and they need to detract from that. And that is that the party cheated to get Hillary nominated, and she is a horrible candidate. She is a corrupt liar in probably somewhat ill health, who is famously vindictive, regularly screaming at anyone crossing her in private. Likely also an alcoholic. No real accomplishments except having accumulated a huge fortune and slush fund by sellng influence to all comers around the world. The Dems desperately need the young voters who voted for Obama in such huge numbers, but they cheated to deprive their nominee, Sanders, of a fair chance at their nomination. Compounding this, the book by the Clinton Secret Servicea agent is scheduled to hit pretty soon, the FBI criminal referral is likely, and Bill's female victims are not shutting up this time. It is the Dems who are panicking in private, but have already been bought and paid for. That is all this really s - an attempt by Dem operatives and Clintonistas to divert attention from their own problems of having been caught cheating to get such a horrible candidate nominated. They are the ones who desperately want to switch out their candidate, and can't figure out how to do it. As some have pointed out, the way to tell what is on the minds of leftists is to watch for what they accuse Republicans of.

The problem with the Dump Trump movement is that if it were successful, it would destroy the party. Trump wouldn't stand for it, and the GOPe couldn't shut him up. He won fair and square, and deep down most Republicans respect that (a lot of Dems seem to expect their leaders to cheat). Elected Republicans jumping on this bandwagon can expect electoral problems henceforth if they are successful at dumping Trump. Republican leaders (outside the Bush family) may not be happy with Trump, because he doesn't play their insider games, but they know deep down that it is far too late to do anything about it. Some of them may be happy with quietly sabatogueing Trump, because they know that Hillary will play their game. But they can't be too obvious about it, because if they are caught, and Trump loses, they will be remembered by both Trump and a lot of Republicans.

"So a lot of things have happened. But they've been – it’s been incredible. It’s been incredible. It’s been a movement. I’ve been on the cover of Time Magazine so many times and the cover of everything. I feel like a supermodel except like time ten. Okay? It’s true. I’m a supermodel. I’m on the cover of these magazines. I’m on the cover of the biggest magazines, I don’t even know about it. I can’t even read the story because if I did I wouldn’t get any work done. I’ve never seen anything like it. And it’s not about me. I’m like- I’m doing a good job as a messenger. But I’m a messenger."

Obama-voting conservative publisher Wick Allison, the money behind both The American Conservative and the Dallas city lifestyle magazine D, enlists one of his liberal bloggers in a dump Trump effort following Trump's Dallas rally by prominently showcasing a photo of gay magazine photographer Danny Fulgencio bleeding from a thrown rock.

The fact that the immediate takeaway from the provocative photo could just have easily been "bloody Dallas, still the City of Hate" doesn't seem to have occurred to either Dallas-promoting blogger Heid or Dallas-promoting publisher Allison in their joint zeal to negatively exploit the Trump rally there.

Unconfirmed reports have it that, ironically, the rock was thrown by an anti-Trump protestor.

Oh please, you don't have to be a Trump fan to realize that's a load of crap. Trump has dealt more body blows to Hillary than any other candidate from either party, and he hasn't even started against her yet.

Trump is the President we need at this moment--one that will try things they others won't. Like getting rid of zealots in civil service positions and Federal judges that legislate from the bench. He'll bring in the people that can make it happen legally. A President just has to provide direction, not be the smartest person in the country, or a person that can do everything best. That will be Trump's biggest contribution. Maybe we'll get some good people after him.

The establishment doesn't have much choice. If they don't take out trump, they are headed to the trash heap of history. Just like the southern slave owners turned on their traitor to his class, Andrew Jackson, who called himself "the Representative of the Common Man "because no one else was. Then again they can stay alive if Mr. H. wins. Will be good fun to watch. Couldn't happen to a nice group of folks. After what they did to Palin the Taxed Enough Already crowd, they should have surrendered back then rather than all of them using the epithet. So this rotten carcass of a party is going to get there's good and hard. How many rallies does he have scheduled between now and the convention? How many candidates will he pay off the campaign debt of with the checks postdated and against an organization that doesn't exist yet? Clever idea, holding them hostage with a check and becoming the nominee. If he can do this to his friends what will he do to Isis and their enablers?

If I was writing this script, the convention would be where I'd deploy my trusty deus ex machina. That's what I'm expecting. These weak alternative resolution ideas are just not gonna leave the viewer satisfied. This show will not get renewed next season with that weak sauce.