I feel your pain. Early on for me the drop rate seemed about right, but as you acquire some gear you start running into the problem where you get stuff you don't need over and over again. Trading gear, people giving each other gear etc... was not ideal and had it's downside but you didn't feel like you were running into a brick wall as much as it does now.

The problem also affects some classes vastly more than others. For example on my ret pally most bosses only have 1 or 2 things I can loot so I can effectively use my charms towards a specific piece of loot(even though I still actually haven't won anything from a charm). On my shadow priest many bosses have multiple drops which means that if I used my charm and actually won something the chance it will be what I need are still relatively small.

Also with my ret pally because the loot drops are so narrow for each boss, I am at the point where I don't need to run a lot of the LFR raids even though I still need a few pieces. I think this is awesome for me, but when you think about it having such narrow loot lists results in people not needing loot from bosses and thus bailing before finishing a run or skipping whole wings.(because just about any other activity in the game is a more efficient means of getting valor than LFR, even in progress runs) This is potentially one of the reasons queues are getting so long lately.

It seemed easier for me to gear up in DS LFR, but honestly I'll take the current system over all the bitching and moaning that went on over loot back then.

Been playing for seven years actually, and yeah, Dragon Soul LFR was full of problems. People certainly did bitch and complain, but at least we had the option to pass/give away what we didn't need. Do you really think that having no choice is better than some kind of option? I won my second pair of shoes in Terrace LFR today, I had to DE them rather then pass them to someone else, that is not an improvement, I went with a friend who could have used them, but I couldn't give them away.

The new system everyone gets their chance. You get an item or gold, you get SOMETHING. THe old system most of the time you got NOTHING. For every one person that would actually give the item to someone else(not talking friends, talking another random person deserving in the LFR), there were 100's who would roll for something they didn't need to try and trade it. That doesn't even get into the groups that would try and take over a raid to get all the loot. The new system you either get an item or gold, and you get no unnecessary drama from people trying to cheat the system. In the old system you would have rolled on that item you didn't need to give it to your friend, screwing over others who joined to get that item you didn't need yet rolled on. The old system essentially was better to you just beause you could cheat others out of loot to give it to your friends? That is exactly why the system before sucked. Just because you have had some bad RNG in the new system doesn't even come close to making it bad. The old system was bad. The new one is meh but an improvement.

I don't see how this system is any worse than the previous need-a-thon.

You feel bad about getting loot you don't need anymore while your friend does - this is no different than someone needing on and winning gear they can't even use just to be intentionally spiteful when other people did it to them, or so that they could sell it and proceed to spam the raid asking to exchange large amounts of money for their good fortune that left you eating dirt, barter for it for a different item, or so that they could give it to a friend. In that case, your friend wasn't going to get it anyway. Otherwise, you were one of those people who rolled on loot you didn't need just so your friend could have it, and you screwed over some stranger in the raid when you won it, but I bet you never thought twice about that because hey, who cares about these guys you'll never see again? It sucks when a group of guildies does it to you, but as long as you and your friend are happy, the system is suddenly working and completely fair!..... seriously?

I'm not sure if this is the same as the old nostalgia for classic and BC servers kick, but did you seriously win that much stuff all on your own in early Dragon Soul to the point where you were going in with blues and instantly coming out in all epics, or does it just seem that way in your mind because you have less control now? And keep in mind that every time someone won an item in DS, everyone else who rolled on said item obviously did not win it - so even if you were the luckiest person ever to walk in with blues and come out with all epics, that meant every other stranger in the raid came in with blues, got absolutely nothing, and walked out with the same sad blues. So maybe you have a stroke of amazing fortune in DS - well, now you get to be in the shoes of everyone else who was never fortunate at all to get the single highest roll out of 5-15 people fighting on the same thing. With the previous system, at most 5 individuals were going to get something (whether they could use it or not) unless someone won two or more items, but now (regardless of what evil conspiracy theories you may have over how much loot gets distributed per boss) every one of those people including you have a chance to win without being influenced by or effecting anyone else in the raid, and without getting harassed for it.

I don't particularly find I win more than I did in DS, and I don't think I'm getting cheated when I end up with nothing. At least now I can blame the same RNG that has screwed me for years on every mount, upgrade, and transmog item I've ever wanted and took months to see or never saw at all, rather than hating some random guy who needed it and didn't even want it.

I don't mind the system really. I've been lucky with drops. Just got the tier helmet for the 3rd time last night off of Sha, thankfully as a druid I have 4 specs! Would be nice to be able to give it away though or DE it or something but can't complain. I've gotten about 15-20 drops, most of them duplicates (3 of the same waist piece, etc) or for slots I don't need as I've already bought them with valor or gotten them from exalted quest lines (Klaxxi neck, etc).

I really dislike the new lootsystem as well, even if the old one included lootdrama and being occationally annoyed, so what. I definitely loved that system compared to the current one. I find this one to be utterly boring. I liked seeing the loot pop up, I liked seeing who needed on what, I liked being able to roll on stuff and I even liked that you were able to help your friends/guildies gear up, even if it was "ninjaing", so what, that's not even the point. But just being able to see the loot, the rolls, at least you got to see stuff drop instead of ending up with a sack of gold week in week out on all chars. The new system is just, meh.

And yeah someone will get stuck on my "ninjaing" comment and people like me being the reason the new system is so awesome, whatever. I liked the old system, my opinion, but oh well.. And yeah I don't bother with LFR at all anymore on any chars, did it the first few weeks on 3 chars, cba anymore.

I'm in favor of the new system. The less bitching in a group the more enjoyable the experience. If people used the system as intended this wouldn't be an issue, but there is a portion of the population who prefers and believes it is better to take advantage than to follow any sort of guidelines or common decency. They all have their excuses and justifications for why they do what they do, but no matter how you slice it, it is not the right thing to do, and they know it.

I hated...
Someone rolling on gear they didn't need, only to vendor or disenchant it.
Someone rolling on gear to give to their friend/guildie.
Someone rolling on gear to horde it for a possible trade.
Someone rolling on gear they already have equipped.
Someone rolling on gear because they could and enjoyed taking it away from someone else.
Someone rolling on gear to make sure the jerks didn't get it and then play god-mode and "kindly" give it someone they felt was deserving.
People bitching about recount meters and how someone who was low didn't deserve new gear.
People coming in to either bot, put someone on follow, never dps, never follow the mechanics, die on purpose etc, and then roll and win.
People whispering or calling out in raid how they want the gear and will pay (useless unless they were on your server).
People whispering or calling out in raid how they never win anything and we should feel sorry for them and just hand them gear.
People whispering or calling out in raid how that is the last piece they need and we should feel sorry for them and just hand them the gear.
People whispering you to roll on gear for them, increasing their chances of getting the item.
People wearing blue gear so that when you inspect them it looks like they need the gear more than you and proceed to say so in raid.
The begging, the whispering, the rude comments, the fighting over who deserves it more, the god-mode people who think they have the right to decide who gets gear and lastly, the people who leave the raid and never roll and make you sit there for what seems like forever waiting for the roll to time out.

I hate all the things you hate. What I hated more about it was having to conform to the system to actually get loot. I held off for as long as I could before doing a few of the things you mentioned(God mode mostly).

I'm in favor of the new system. The less bitching in a group the more enjoyable the experience. If people used the system as intended this wouldn't be an issue, but there is a portion of the population who prefers and believes it is better to take advantage than to follow any sort of guidelines or common decency. They all have their excuses and justifications for why they do what they do, but no matter how you slice it, it is not the right thing to do, and they know it.

I hated...
Someone rolling on gear they didn't need, only to vendor or disenchant it.
Someone rolling on gear to give to their friend/guildie.
Someone rolling on gear to horde it for a possible trade.
Someone rolling on gear they already have equipped.
Someone rolling on gear because they could and enjoyed taking it away from someone else.
Someone rolling on gear to make sure the jerks didn't get it and then play god-mode and "kindly" give it someone they felt was deserving.
People bitching about recount meters and how someone who was low didn't deserve new gear.
People coming in to either bot, put someone on follow, never dps, never follow the mechanics, die on purpose etc, and then roll and win.
People whispering or calling out in raid how they want the gear and will pay (useless unless they were on your server).
People whispering or calling out in raid how they never win anything and we should feel sorry for them and just hand them gear.
People whispering or calling out in raid how that is the last piece they need and we should feel sorry for them and just hand them the gear.
People whispering you to roll on gear for them, increasing their chances of getting the item.
People wearing blue gear so that when you inspect them it looks like they need the gear more than you and proceed to say so in raid.
The begging, the whispering, the rude comments, the fighting over who deserves it more, the god-mode people who think they have the right to decide who gets gear and lastly, the people who leave the raid and never roll and make you sit there for what seems like forever waiting for the roll to time out.

No, I don't miss any of that, give me this new system any day.

This ^ is why the new system is better. My GUILD ran LFR during DS and we all got full LFR gear, Was that fair to the other 10-15 players? should a group of players have complete control of all loot drops? When it happens to you and you run DS and see a guild ninja'ing EVERYTHING you'll realize that you were a ass in a bag of broken assholes.

The system is fine. It's far better than winning an item fair and square only to be spammed by people that you already have it (even if you don't), you have better, they need it more (they're raiders, don't you know). Anything that cuts down on pointless drama in a random group of strangers can only be a good thing. They should put it in LFD as well.

There is maybe room for an option to go with normal loot rolls if you run with a full guild group, but frankly that would be used by 0.1% of the player base.

I think I must have the worst luck in the world. I run every section of LFR on 3 of my toons every week. I MAYBE win something once a week, but when I do, it's ALWAYS a piece for a slot that I don't even need. I've won 3 pairs of LFR boots on my mage, and a cloak on my lock, when I'm wearing a 496 cloak.

Overall, I find this system incredibly frustrating, and just wanted to vent my frustrations/bad luck.

I feel like the system can sense what you want and likes to just fuck with people... My main hasn't gotten much of anything in there. He's gotten two pants tokens, but nothing else. I've been farming Sha of Fear multiple times each week (2-3 times each reset since you can use tokens even if you're locked) and have still not gotten my Sha-Touched Weapon....

I have several 90's and since my main is exalted with everyone, I do dailies and vp grind on an alt before focusing on my main so i can get the 50% vp bonus... my Pally, who I don't care about at all has gotten 10 upgrades in LFR the last 2 weeks and has his set 4 bonus already... so yeah. I think if I run LFR completely not caring whether or not i get anything, I will get everything. If i WANT stuff, I'll get double gold. :-P

LFR is not a system to obtain gear in a cheap way, not a way to experiance raid. This is pretty much obvious. It may be A BIT enjoyable, but this is nothing like a raid, so yes, cheap epix.

The only thing we need is Blizzard to realise it. Realise that this system does not meet the purpose, and thus, give an option to roll every time on a SPECIFIC piece of loot from the bosses table. Then everything would be perfect. Lame, but perfect.

Ive seen a lot of these threads lately, so it seems like there is a problem, no matter what side u fall on. I personally had 5 toons totally gear up thru LFR during DS and it seemed like gear was coming at a relatively steady pace. Admittedly, i have havnt run LFR that much since MOP. Im just now getting done witht the daily drind for 1 toons at least. I have one 1 maybe 2 things drop for me so far out of 25-30 bosses. It feels very low, no matter the percentages or taking absolute awful RNG into account. It makes running the LFR as something I dread rather than something that exciting, especially given that its the only kind of raiding I do ATM.

This ^ is why the new system is better. My GUILD ran LFR during DS and we all got full LFR gear, Was that fair to the other 10-15 players? should a group of players have complete control of all loot drops? When it happens to you and you run DS and see a guild ninja'ing EVERYTHING you'll realize that you were a ass in a bag of broken assholes.

and here the catch - most people who run lfr and hate it are those who raid in normals and now are runing lfr only to get those 2-3 last pieces they dont have on normal or which are better then vp stuff (aka trinkets ) or for sha touched weapons - the moment they finish they wont touch lfr anymore - htey wont run with with multiple alts cause most people left alts on 90 or didnt even touched lvling them cause of whole daily grind - but in DS those people were runing lfr with their guildies - they helped each other and finished runing it after what 6-7 weeks tops - now everybody is geting loot they dont want and cant trade it for loot they want - why ? so that they stuck to runing lfr cause blizzard knwos that target audience of lfr has no chance of completing it without those bad bad ugly raiders - so they are forced to run it untill they got all they want from there - and dont tell me bs liek lfr is there so that people could experience content - nobody sis doing it for content - everybody is doin it cause its free loot pinata.