Anyone here a fan of Firefly?

^^^Racists commonly insist that the Civil War was about states' rights, constitutionalism or anything but slavery. Whedon's expunging just embodied the apologetics of groups like the Conservative Citizens' Council (which began in the Sixties as a white citizens' council.

I think the Browncoats in Firefly had more in common with the American Colonies in the Revolutionary War than they did the Confederate States in the Civil War. They were fighting to keep their planets free from what they viewed as a tyrannical, power-hungry government, not to break free of a pact into which they willingly entered in order to preserve an outdated and inhumane economic system because they were afraid the government was going to take it away from them.

I'm a huge fan of Firefly (anyone who needs proof can just look at my signature, which contains a link to a virtual continuation of the series that myself and several others worked on and are starting to resume work on), and consider it to be one of my top 5 favorite television series of all time.

Answering the question about robots, they do in fact exist within the FF universe, but we only ever saw one such creature: Mr. Universe's 'lovebot' wife, Lenore, introduced in the series' feature-length film sequel/continuation, 'Serenity'.

I'd also like to adamantly disagree with the idea that the Alliance itself was meant to be portrayed as 'evil'; there's a distinct difference between an organization or group being set up as the antagonists of a television series or novel, and said organization or group being portrayed as evil. The Alliance is an example of the former, but not the latter, something that Joss himself specifically points out during some of his commentaries for the series, particularly his commentary for what he considers to be the series' finale, 'Objects in Space', in which he explains in great detail his motivations behind creating the series and the ways in which it represents his philosophies about life and the world in general.

^ If you thought the Alliance was evil after the events of Serenity, then you missed the point of what Joss was trying to say, and what I said in my post above yours. The Alliance's actions in covering up their involvement in the creation of the Reavers was misguided, certainly, and caused more harm than it prevented, but it was not inherently evil.

I feel like Firefly is the Arrested Development of Sci Fi. Everyone who watched it loved it, yet not many people watched it.

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You know I honestly feel like neither statement there is true.

The second one really depends how you define 'not many people'. Firefly was a series being talked up a lot on these forums before it was even aired; although I was not a Whedon fan I was cajoled into checking out the pilot episode for his new space opera yarn. Whedon was already pretty popular with a lot of Star Trek fans I knew for Buffy and Angel, and the creator of these pieces running off to do a space opera had already sent them into apoplexy. Like The Dark Knight much later, this is the sort of thing where you can actually partially trace the positive fan buzz to well before the title was even released. I even remember a couple of the arguments - notably, for the episode "Our Mrs. Reynolds", some people were down right furious about Book Shepherd's joke that deadpannedly connects people who talk in movie theatres with more serious crimes. The series has recieved continuous attention on these forums ever since and can easily be considered one of the most discussed non-Star Trek space opera titles on these forums.

But let's remove ourselves from the little bubble of space opera fandom for a moment. Is Firefly still so neglected? In general geekdom it's been my experience that more people have seen Firefly then, say, Babylon 5 or Farscape... and often it'll get more recogniton with a geek crowd even then Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica.

The series may have never been some big mainstream hit on the order of Lost, but Firefly is far, far from being one of those perennial unheard and unseen series.

And universally loved, well, I can again look at these boards, which back in the day had plenty of acrimony between Firefly fans and anti-fans, before the show as even cancelled... and all over again when the movie came out. And battled ceaselessly ever since. I dropped the series on its first run after "Our Mrs. Reynolds", subsequently checked the show out on DVD and reluctantly conceded that despite my biases and talking points, it can be considered an excellent series and one of the best space opera titles in recent years (and in general).

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Woah, slow down there, Buddy. I'm just going on my experiences, which is all we can ever go on, right? When I say no one watched, it I didn't literally mean no one, but it certainly didn't get enough viewers to finish the season, which is about as low as a show can get. You say that let's step out of our bubble, and I say by all means. Let's step out of our geekdom bubble, not just our Trekbbs bubble. Outside of the typical Whedon-whores such as myself and your average geek made up of Babylon 5 fans, Star Trek fans, Farscape fans and others, it generally went unnoticed in the general public. Which got it canceled. And still the only real people still campaigning for a revival are browncoats (sadly not as strong as Trekkies in the 70s).

And when I say everyone who watched it loved it, I am again going off of my experiences. I have given the series to so many people since it came out on DVD. And every single person who I have given the show to has loved it (every single one). The only other show I've had that experience with is Arrested Development. Now, I may have sounded like I was speaking in absolute fact, but I wasn't and I don't think I post warranted an essay telling me I was wrong based on semantics.

Outside of the typical Whedon-whores such as myself and your average geek made up of Babylon 5 fans, Star Trek fans, Farscape fans and others, it generally went unnoticed in the general public. Which got it canceled.

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Choice of words can be important here. Firefly went less unnoticed then it did unliked, as in declining viewer share and all that jazz. We're talking about a series that had a fairly high profile release on Fox and had a reasonable ad campaign for it. But 'the general public' never really copped to the program for no doubt a multitude of interesting reasons, and hence, cancellation.

And frankly after seeing the first three episodes in airing order, as I did at the time they aired - can't blame for those folks at all.

My favourite Whedon show. All the others took time to find their footing, but this show was spot on right from the outset.

I think history will possibly tell that this was Whedon's creative peak in television, which is a great shame because it's the only one of his shows that wasn't given a fair shake by the network it was on. Not that it would have necessarily blown up into something huge, but it really has a lot of quality that might have helped it pick up some steam over a year or 2.

I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me. I think Joss said it had higher ratings than Buffy did during her first season but presumably sci fi shows require bigger budgets so they expect more.

It took me far less time to warm to the characters than it did on TNG (although River was a bit too slow to develop I understand that her development was intended to be a running theme) and the stories were of much higher quality. The movie is one of my top ten sci fi movies.

I think the show could have picked up enough momentum to be great. I would have loved another 13 episodes to round out his season two plans but as it is I think it stands up pretty well.

I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me. I think Joss said it had higher ratings than Buffy did during her first season but presumably sci fi shows require bigger budgets so they expect more.

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This is likely it. And Firefly was, if memory serves, more expensive then sci-fi shows like, say, Stargate: Atlantis. This wasn't the kind of show that could subsis for years on a shoestring budget and a loyal cult audience as Babylon 5 did.

Big fan of Firefly here. I wouldn't call myself a Browncoat, but I really enjoyed the show, as with most of Whedon's production. As others have said, it took me a couple of episodes to warm up to it, but then I was hooked. Fantastic cast, funny and natural dialogues, and an interesting premise. I would advice anyone to watch it, and see if it's in tune with their tastes. Given the short span, it's well worth the investment.

Well, after Serenity, there's not much argument that the Alliance isn't evil. I mean, they wiped out a planet (by accident, granted) and then covered it up. That's pretty evil.

And prior to that, they were still portrayed as being pretty heavily into human experimentation at least as bad as MK-ULTRA.

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Given that standard, you have to accept that virtually every country on Earth is as evil as the Alliance, if not worse. That said, the Alliance government fucked up pretty bad on Miranda, and it deserved to be exposed to the public for its own misdeeds, but for the rest of the show I agree it wasn't intended to be evil or tyrannical, just conformist, well-ordered, and somewhat dull, at the expenses of individualism and some instances of self-determination. Which, depending on your political position, could be classified as "bad", but certainly not "evil".

Because nobody's combined space opera and westerns before. Heck, I've seen people argue that space opera is just a natural outgrowth of the western genre (I'd never go that far, mind.)

Firefly was a Joss Whedon genre mashup, I enjoyed it for what it was but it was neither new per se nor (given we're talking Whedon here) unexpected.

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It's essentially another "rag-tag bunch of misfits on a spaceship" series, following in the footsteps of Blake's 7. The western trappings give it its own flavour, but I didn't find it radically different from the other sci-fi shows I've seen, well executed though it mostly was.

I liked it well enough, but I think it might be the most overrated series of all time. It's a competition between this and BSG, but at least BSG has multiple seasons going for it. Hell, it has a full season going for it. Firefly never had the chance to descend into shit as so many other shows do.

I'm a huge Firefly fan but I will admit that it wasn't until Mrs Reynolds that the show clicked for me. I think Joss said it had higher ratings than Buffy did during her first season but presumably sci fi shows require bigger budgets so they expect more.

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This is likely it.

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The Fox network itself expects a hell of a lot more viewers than the WB/UPN/Whatever the hell "networks" were showing Buffy/Angel for all those years in the US. The expense of a show like Firefly definitely piles up on the equation, but even a cheap show that got the ratings Firefly did would have been cancelled. It was the 98th most watched show of the season.