That's a very Swedish spelling actually, with a K, I mean. I'm so sorry.

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Fri Nov 16, 2007 4:41 am

sophie-louisa

Noble

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:24 pmPosts: 10Location: England

Nah, I don't think she was that shallow and I don't think she loved Fersen. I wouldn't touch Fersen because of his reputation. I don't think he was all that beautiful like the historians always say even if he did look nicer than Louis. Fersen may have been more beautiful outside but Louis seemed to have a more beautiful nature. Besides, if I had a husband like Louis who was a family man and was faithful to me, I couldn't bring myself to love a man with a track record like Fersen.

Last edited by sophie-louisa on Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sat Dec 08, 2007 10:02 pm

Madame Vigée-Le Brun

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:10 pmPosts: 276

Well said, Sophie-Louisa ! I agree, von Fersen was not a very ... virtuous ... person , was he ? He left a trail of mistresses and lovers where ever he went , how could a good, innocent Antoinette love such a cad ?! Louis at very least behaved like a good man , with a good heart . Did he not weep at the births and deaths of his beloved children ? Did he not do everything in his power , and outside of his power to please his wife, whom he was faithful to ? And yet , people like to believe that Louis was a complete dolt , and that Antoinette was an adulterous wife , who barely wept at the death of her family .

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:04 am

Therese

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:04 pmPosts: 2266

Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:

Well said, Sophie-Louisa ! I agree, von Fersen was not a very ... virtuous ... person , was he ? He left a trail of mistresses and lovers where ever he went , how could a good, innocent Antoinette love such a cad ?! Louis at very least behaved like a good man , with a good heart . Did he not weep at the births and deaths of his beloved children ? Did he not do everything in his power , and outside of his power to please his wife, whom he was faithful to ? And yet , people like to believe that Louis was a complete dolt , and that Antoinette was an adulterous wife , who barely wept at the death of her family .

Exactly. She was utterly distraught when Louis died.

_________________I forgive all my enemies the harm they have done me.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:08 am

Délicate fleur

Royalty

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 amPosts: 1064Location: Australia

This is very true, Therese, she was said to weep frequently and experience moments of great melancholy. The trauma and tribulations they experienced drew them very close and her love had grown quite deep for Louis. To lose him was of great despair for our queen.

_________________“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”- Germaine de Staël

Sun Dec 09, 2007 2:54 am

Therese

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:04 pmPosts: 2266

Délicate fleur wrote:

This is very true, Therese, she was said to weep frequently and experience moments of great melancholy. The trauma and tribulations they experienced drew them very close and her love had grown quite deep for Louis. To lose him was of great despair for our queen.

Yes. She lost a lot of weight when he died, too; her dresses had to all be taken in......

_________________I forgive all my enemies the harm they have done me.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:05 am

Délicate fleur

Royalty

Joined: Thu Dec 06, 2007 10:35 amPosts: 1064Location: Australia

Indeed, what a change it wrought in a figure so full of life and splendour. I don't think I could stand to see someone I loved decline so.

_________________“Love is the emblem of eternity: it confounds all notion of time: effaces all memory of a beginning, all fear of an end.”- Germaine de Staël

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:28 am

sophie-louisa

Noble

Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 9:24 pmPosts: 10Location: England

The loss of Louis and her children good as destroyed Antoinette. When she finally died she was not the same person any more, inside and outside. They had taken away the three people who meant everything to her. Louis and Antoinette's life had been filled with pain with the deaths of two of their children. It's clear to me that this pair were a family man and woman. That's why I certainly don't think that a woman who adored her children so would do anything to risk their position and certainly not with love for a man like Fersen.

That's why I certainly don't think that a woman who adored her children so would do anything to risk their position and certainly not with love for a man like Fersen.

Indeed. Would a woman in love wish the man she loves a good time with another woman ?

That's what Marie Antoinette does. She writes to Fersen that she hopes the Craufurds would be with him soon, for he needs a little bit entertainment !

Eleonore Craufurd was Fersen's mistress... So, was Antoinette madly in love with Fersen ? Certainly not... And that is in her own handwriting, it is not another copied line, out crossed out word or burned letter !

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Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:04 pm

Therese

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:04 pmPosts: 2266

Pimprenelle wrote:

Quote:

That's why I certainly don't think that a woman who adored her children so would do anything to risk their position and certainly not with love for a man like Fersen.

Indeed. Would a woman in love wish the man she loves a good time with another woman ?

That's what Marie Antoinette does. She writes to Fersen that she hopes the Craufurds would be with him soon, for he needs a little bit entertainment !

Eleonore Craufurd was Fersen's mistress... So, was Antoinette madly in love with Fersen ? Certainly not... And that is in her own handwriting, it is not another copied line, out crossed out word or burned letter !

Exactly, she never indicated the least amount of jealousy of Eleonore.

_________________I forgive all my enemies the harm they have done me.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 3:08 pm

Pimprenelle

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:54 amPosts: 2040

On the contrary ! She deeply appreciated Quintin Craufurd and Eleonore Sullivan. They both helped preparing the flight to Montmedy. Eleonore ordered the berline, and gave money to pay it. Then, she put food in it for the royal family to have something to eat during their journey.

During the whole revolution, she was extremely active, helping Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette the best she could, and taking risks, such as going to the Russian ambassy pretending she was baronne de Korff for getting passports for the royals.

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Sun Dec 09, 2007 4:20 pm

Madame Vigée-Le Brun

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2007 2:10 pmPosts: 276

Quote:

Exactly, she never indicated the least amount of jealousy of Eleonore.

True, Therese! Marie Antoinette did not ever give hints that she was jealous! And plus, wouldn't Louis XVI send her away if she was an adulterous wife? Louis XVI would not hesitate, for he wouldn't put his children into the hands of a... pardon... whore.

Sun Dec 09, 2007 10:10 pm

Therese

Prince/Princesse

Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 4:04 pmPosts: 2266

Madame Vigée-Le Brun wrote:

Quote:

Exactly, she never indicated the least amount of jealousy of Eleonore.

True, Therese! Marie Antoinette did not ever give hints that she was jealous! And plus, wouldn't Louis XVI send her away if she was an adulterous wife? Louis XVI would not hesitate, for he wouldn't put his children into the hands of a... pardon... whore.

Exactly. Antoinette could not have carried on with Fersen without Louis knowing of it. And people who say that Louis would have shrugged and looked the other way have not read enough about him.

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