This board is a composition workshop, like a writers' workshop: post your work with questions about style or vocabulary, comment on other people's work, post composition challenges on some topic or form, or just dazzle us with your inventive use of galliambics.

We clothed go. --> We go clothed ? I'm not a native speaker, but I never heard anybody say "we clothed go".A unicorn is a fierce animal --> A rhinoceros is a wild animalA lion is a cruel [animal]. --> A lion is a ferocious animal

I am a native speaker , and you're right; no one says that. The reason I rendered it that way was because, especially at the beginning of the Vesitibulum, I was aiming for extremely literal translations, including matching the Latin syntax. The translation we have says we go about with clothes, which is better English; I wanted to capture the passive participle in English, however. I might just change this, though, because it's horrible English.

Just looking at the beginning:προτόπειροι should be πρωτό-. It’s a nice word (if an uncommon one) but it doesn’t mean children.μανθάνατε should be μανθάνετε.I don’t look further, but let's hope the rest is better than this.

mwh wrote:Just looking at the beginning:προτόπειροι should be πρωτό-. It’s a nice word (if an uncommon one) but it doesn’t mean children.μανθάνατε should be μανθάνετε.I don’t look further, but let's hope the rest is better than this.

I haven't really started the Greek Vestibulum in earnest. I promise the Latin version is more free from these silly errors

I've redone Caput Primum, adding the additional words from the Vesitibulum you provided. Would you mind, Bedwere, looking again through the first chapter? There were a decent amount of words and a couple of them I was uncertain of. Thanks again!

Bedwere, your corrections have now been included. Also, I have now finished the second chapter up through plantārum. As will be evidenced, the German/Polish adds a lot of words, many of which are awesome and useful. On the other hand, a lot of strange words I'm unsure about.

I have now finished adding all the new words in for caput secundum. It took a long time! There are a lot of new words. Unfortunately, some of the words are somewhat obscure (at least relative to what you usually read), and so there is a lot that is need of correction.

I slightly fear again that all the corrections have not yet been added to the document you give above in a link, or that that’s not the latest version. We may do the same work twice. Do check that you give us the newest link to your document. In any case, I started from the end towards the beginning (until the beginning of the fifth chapter). I do not claim to have spotted everything spotworthy, and I do hope I have not added a new stratum of errors.

E: Vērāx studet vēritātī. Better to translate studet ‘strives for/pursues’ I think.E: Maestos sōlātur. → MaestōsE: Egēnīs opitulātur. → Egentibus (from egēns)E: Superiōribus estō obēdiēns. → oboediēnsE: Quōs patiens patitur. → patiēns. This is a recurrent mistake: remember that the vowel is long before ns and nf. Also ponder a little more the translation: patiēns maybe ‘suffering’ (other possibilities, too). The modern sense ‘patient’ is met in French and then in English (in Chaucer!), first in the 14th century. It may not be best here.E: Fortūna est incōnstans. → incōnstānsE: Cum egēs, nē pigeat poscere. → pōscereE: Bona fāma est ingens glōria. → ingēnsE: Nec sīs arrogans aut superbus. → arrogānsE: Cum tibi quid dīcit auscultā. → tibī. Tibī and mihī can have both -ī and -ĭ, so this isn’t actually a mistake. However maybe best mark the macron, knowing that word-ending long vowel may shorten in fact more generally (such as -ō in 1st person singular and nouns).E: Manifesta nārrā. → narrā. This length on the stem is somewhat contested. I do think it’s short (so also Ernout—Meillet, de Vaan), as it derives from gnārus (viz. *nārāre > narrāre), but we cannot be 100 % sure.E: Ieiūnāre aliquandō expedit. → IēiūnāreE: Estō temperans. → temperāns.E: Ut prūdens sīs, prōspice fīnem. → prūdēnsE: Patrans flāgitia est scelestus. → patrānsE: Vītā vitia quae lex vetat. → lēxE: Cum proeliantur et pugnant. → pūgnant (probably so)E: Ut rex in regnō regnet. → rēxE: Aedituus pulsat campanās. → campānās (I think there’s the word campanile in Italian, also used as a surname [famous scholar Enrico Campanile].)E: Tabellārius fert līterās. No mistake but note the variation that exists, līterās ~ litterās, which might be marked.E: Infunde in pōculum. → ĪnfundeE: Tolle patinās. I think patina means rather ‘bowl, dish’.E: Muscas abige muscāriō. → MuscāsE: Ad iūsculum et pulmentum est cochlear. Consider still the translation of pulmentum. LS gives ‘anything eaten with bread, a sauce, condiment, relish (fruit, vegetables, salt etc.); transf. food’E: Mappā sternimus mensam. → mēnsamE: Lingulīs astringimus. I don’t know exactly how to translate lingula, which you should maybe check. It literally means ‘small tongue’, and could possibly refer to a shoe (flap of a shoe?).E: Pilleī et collāria, chirotecae, et sandalia sunt honestātis ergō. → chīrothēcae (I think the Greek word would be *χειροθήκη [cf. ἀποθήκη], though LSJ wouldn’t appear to have it.). Only while composing this message I noticed that Bedwere had commented on this sentence a while ago. Yes, collāria ‘collars’, and honestātis ergō rather ‘for the sake of decency/morality’.E: Indūsium et tunicam, thōrācem, femorālia, et tibiālia induimus at exuimus. — I found this difficult because people clothed differently in the Classical Antiquity from the Renaissance, and today we wear different clothes from the Renaissance. Therefore the equivalences are not expected to be exact between the garments. But my dictionary translates indūsium ‘dress, frock (the latter a slightly dated word in English?)’, tunica ‘blouse, shirt’, and thōrāx (< Greek θώραξ) ‘armour’ (the “doublet” you give is a synonym of “armour”?).E: Quisquliiae verruntur scōpīs. → Quisquiliae. Also maybe rather ‘with a broom’.E: Thūre suffimus. → Tūre suffīmus. From tūs. This correction might be slightly contested, as it is from Greek θύος. However, all the dictionaries (including the OLD) I checked had the lemma without an h.E: Et sēcussu prō alvō levandā. → sēcessus (Bedwere mentioned this earlier in the thread). Also alvus means rather ‘stomach’, though you may have translated it in idiomatic English.E: Matula est prō ūrīnā. You translate matula ‘urinal’, but doesn’t this word refer rather to public lavatories etc.? Better I think ‘chamber-pot’ (a pot that used to be used in olden days during nighttime, often kept under the bed).E: Historicus rēs gestās nārrat. → narrat (see above). You translate rēs gestae ‘things done’, which is not incorrect, but it’s a current phrase meaning ‘deeds, feats, achievements’ etc., I think better here.E: Negligens vāpulat. → NegligēnsE: Ille ēmendāt mendās. → ēmendatE: Magister īnstituit ūniversōs. You translate ūniversī simply ‘everyone’, but maybe better ‘all together, everyone together’ (Swedish allihop ).E: Cūstōs monet et cōnsignat. → Cŭstōs. Monet can also be translated ‘punishes’ (choose the best translation, but it might work). Cōnsignāre is derived from signum (slightly contested length of i, but maybe ĭ, as we do have sĭgillum) and means ‘to seal; to mark; to write down’. Cŭstōs can be translated e.g. ‘supervisor, invigilator’, but your “tutor” may also be perfectly good, and my English somewhat fails me with the nuances of these words.E: Rēctor regit acadēmiam. → acadēmīam (< Greek Ἀκαδήμεια)

In coitū canuntur psalmī et hymnī. — No mistake here, but I just wanted to mention this sentence. Some people could’ve translated it differently and still considered it made sense...

Last edited by Timothée on Sun Apr 23, 2017 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I know it’s much work, but you should update your document (and your links!). And as Bedwere said, it’d be best if you made the additions from the Germano-Polish edition. It would seem to have quite a lot more that the one you have mostly used, the reason for which I don’t quite know.

Last edited by Timothée on Sun Apr 23, 2017 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

You say you updated it but still have the ū in custōs. There’s no reason for ū. I gave some discussion on this sentence, did you read it?

Ursinus wrote:In cubiculō sunt lēctī pulvīnāribus (?) strātī

It should be lĕctus (so different from the passive participle lēctus). Cubiculum is ‘bedroom’. Theoretically pulvīnar should be ‘couch’, ‘chaise longue’, but here it is surely pillow as you suggest, or cushion (I don’t know if they mean the same in English or not). By the way, the Germano-Polish edition has In cubiculo sunt lecti, culcitis, pulvinaribus et lodicibus strati.

Timothee, actually I am in the process of adding everything from the Polish/German edition. As you indicated, there's a lot more in it. I have only gotten through the second chapter thus far.

I'll check the link. It seems to have updated for Bedwere, since he was responding to new material. I had already update my mihi's to mihī, tibi's to tibī, and other corrections. Perhaps, it takes a second to update, but I have made all the corrections you have suggested.

Edit: I checked to link and it seems that it is updating every time I make an edit.