The 'holistic' treatment centre on the corner of Brockley Road and Cranfield Road has closed. The closure is a shame, but, like the former Brockley Cross beauty salon Yana, its continued presence on the high-street in defiance of a lack of any visible custom, was one of Brockley's long-running mysteries.

It leaves empty one of the most desirable commercial spots on this stretch of Brockley Road, which admittedly isn't necessarily saying a great deal.

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And then what will become of Lion's? Think it through, Anonymous. The local chicken franchise is a must for any serious 'creative community'. KFC will sap all of our collective juices and sell it back to us a garlic and herb dip.

Glad to see that the magic potions and rubbing shop has shut down though.

A community betting shop. The shop comes a supply of pledges from local do-gooders to help out with punters' housework, chores, childcare commitments etc. The punters gamble their own pledges of help against those held by the shop - if they win they get some promises and if they lose they make some of their own.

I would get the betting shop I always want to go into any vacant shop front, the community get a community based gambling solution. Maybe an ethically sourced but fairly priced fried chicken stand at the back with Mung-bean shakes for the teetotalers and satirists.

Having tried to use both Yana (ridicolously overpriced) and the holistic centre (never pick up the phone or have staff in) I am not surprised they have both closed! What happened to the Waitrose rumour?

I remember that place when it was an estate agent. They were awful. I had a nightmare trying to view flats and houses in Brockley as most estate agents want you to be at their offices by at the latest 6 or 6.30pm and I finish at 6 (why can't estate agents actually think about opening outside office hours?).

I viewed a house on Brookbank Rd through that estate agent and was delayed at work so arrived late. The guy was grumpy and moody in the extreme when I arrived panting and sweaty having rushed to London Br station to get down to Brockley. I arrived about 5-10 mins late and all he did was whinge at me, the potential customer. Put me off the house before I'd even seen it. Thank god the place went bancrupt.

Agreed on the organic cafe. Don't mind if the coffee costs a bomb and tastes like shit, as long as it's organic, fair trade, locally sourced and vegetarian then that's all that matters to me in my pious little life!

I think it's a shame they've closed. I expect it'll go back to being an estate agent.We have enough cafes though. We dont need any more. We could do with something useful like an optician or an independent bookshop.By the way, what's happening to the old florists on the corner and also is anyone going to buy Speedicars old base by the station? Is a decent size to be converted to a shop.Brockley Jim

what a shame, the good people of Brockley all want these holistic things but don't want to fork out for them. The organic food shop struggles because people don't support it. Don't tell me it is overpriced-you are just too tight to pey for quality!

The good people ofBrockley have delusions of grandeur-champagne tastes with beer money!Ii's holistic this, and organic that-since when were these things cheap. yhe bottom line is,if you want small independent retailers selling quality produce and providing excellent service-you have to pay the money to make them economically viable. If you are unwilling to pay a premium you will get the shops you deserve!

I doubt it'll go back to being an estate agent in the current market!! Highly unlikely!

Problem with a lot of these "holistic" type businesses like this place and the Brockley Bean co op (by the sounds of it) is that they're run by people with wonderful ideas to heal the world but who have not an ounce of business sense. Sounds like some of these places only opened when someone fancied turning up, which is a no no right from the start.

I think there is support for businesses like these in the community. Dandelion Blue seems to have a regular client base, there are always people coming and going when I'm there. Same with SOTH. Has anyone specifically heard that either is doing badly? They're both well run and sell what I want. Erin seems a pretty savvy businesswoman and has opened a 2nd, large, new business on the other side of the station as we all know, she wouldn't have done it if there was no market.

I walk past the centre at least twice a day and not once have I seen a customer.

Once I thought about going in (had a bad back that day) but the entrance looked so unwelcoming I didn't dare set foot inside. They also didn’t advertise their prices so was unsure how much it would cost me.

Now that I've read they never answered the phone either I'm not surprised they went out of business.

guaranteed revenue streams even when not in a recession are attractive enough as it is, but one that's impervious to recessions is like finding that the gold you've found in your garden is covered in oil

in fact different product lines of the shop could be packaged up and sold as different tranches of a collaterised debt obligation, the riskiest tranches would consist of the income streams coming from sauted pultry products rising up to the super safe AAA rated tranches which are backed by the revenue streams from £3 loafs and £20 bottles of extra virgin olive oil

Encouraged by my wife I went into Oscars in Ladywell and bought a loaf of brown bread, it was £2.60 (or perhaps .80) but is was good bread and Oskars looks good and flourishing.

Encouraged also by my son I went out leafleting the Ladywell Xmas thing and I was appalled by any number of things concerning letterboxes - little brushes behind them, too low, too small - one was even screwed up!

What has happened to the simple letterbox to make it a thing of fear and loathing?

Ah! Letterboxes. Doing a bit of leafleting you realize what postmen have to put up daily.My favourite are the vertical spring-loaded with tight brush behind.If I was the postman you'd go and get your mail at the post office if you have one of those.

I dont understand why 4 separate individuals opened fancy food stores within a stones throw of each other around Brockley station (Degustation, Dandelion Blue, SOTH and now Broca Market) yet none of them considered opening further along Brockley high road to say Crofton Park. CP is a much nicer part of Brockley to the bit by Brockley station in my opinion with nicer looking stores. King Sturge recently closed its door paving the way for someone to open something good in a prime corner unit. Lets hope its not a fast food shop, betting shop, mung bean shop or hair dressers, but something better like a BAR, a BAR or maybe a BAR - am i the only one on here who drinks and goes to clubs of which SE4 has nothing passable except Jam Circus? Come on someone open a cool bar which places a bit of commercial dance music occaasionally....pleeease!

Paddyom. I think the easy answer to your question is that Brockley station going to be the hub that brings new people to the area via the ELL. To newbies 'Brockley' will be the bit near the station. That's only my opinion but I feel others share it hence the rise in station area businesses.

I also pondered the little signs saying 'no junk mail'. It puts the onus on to me to make a qualitative judgment as to whether I think the article I'm delivering is actually junk - I didn't think it was but I still respected the dignity of their letterbox.

I thought several people who I spoke to were also surprised that a. i wasn't handing out pizza leaflets, and b. that I spoke english, but lets draw a veil over that...

"Encouraged by my wife I went into Oscars in Ladywell and bought a loaf of brown bread, it was £2.60 (or perhaps .80) but is was good bread and Oskars looks good and flourishing."

oscars gets a mention in this weeks time out as one (of two) of the best places to get coffee in south london. i'm not sure it will be of the same standard of some of the other places getting mention, flat white, milk bar, sacred, fernandez and wells etc but it's very positive for a 'neighbourhood cafe' as they describe it.

I have been to Oscars and it is fantastic, a real improvement to Ladywell Village. I notice there is a really beautiful hairdressers and beauty therapy salon there also. Everyone says its good-has anyone else tried it?

My wife went in the new hairdressers and really loved it. I had a massage there last week and it was great. It seems a well run business and they seem to know what they are doing.Perhaps they might open another branch on the site of the ho;istic centre-at least it would look nice on that corner.

On letter boxes - There was a sign on the door saying "beware of the dog" and they meant it - the leaflet I was delivering was tugged from my grasp as I put it through the letter box.

I would prefer people to be explicit about what type of junk mail they are rejecting - do they just mean pizza leaflets, or are they totally opting out of the community and don't even want to be notifed of events (like the Ladywell Xmas Market) or current issues (like a CPZ campaign).

After a few 'no junk mail' signs I was glad to walk by and deliver to the next house, so avoiding the walk up the path, but what irritated me more was that, on approaching the gate, although I could see there was some kind of notice on the door, I couldn't read it until I'd reached the front door and then to be greeted with a 'No' sign was doubly irritating.

There is a sign on a window I sometimes go by that says "F**k off, I'm having a bad day", (no asterisks).

Just want to put another good word in for the Sunflower Centre. I have never been disappointed by the treatments and classes there. From my experience the classes are really popular and if you're interested you usually get added to a waiting list. They're worth waiting for.

Given the choice between the holistic centre on the main road and the sunflower centre - I'd rather do my peaceful new age-y things in a quiet old beautiful house. Maybe that's why the one on Brockley road didn't fare so well?

Yes, When having bad back problems I first went to the osteo at the Holistic place and had to stip off to underwear and be scrunched. Went for 3 appts but osteo didn't turn up for the last one. Sunflower centre on the other hand was a really experience - nice people and rooms - no violence by osteo. Really recommend Sunflower if you have back problems

You're right Not proper Brockley, and at the houses that *didn't* have 'letter box draft excluders' i was able to peer through the gaping wound of the letter box and see the occupants shovel £50 notes onto open fires.

"The obvious positive ecological benefits of a draft excluder in the letter box should be more than enough to stop any nonsense on this blog about their other short-comings? no?"

Short answer. No.They're awful. The shortcomings are that your mail gets all crumpled and more importantly one often injure his hands trying to push the mail through them. If one is worried about a draft coming through the letterbox there are plenty of other less anti-social solutions.And BTW idle chat on letterbox design won't be silenced by the no-nonsense brigade.

If you're involved in pushing things through letterboxes then the design of the letterbox to *enable it to do the only thing that it exists for* (apart from the letterbox/knocker combinations) is vital and essential.

I was involved in it briefly (and in the past from time to time, but I'm no postman ((the plight of the postman!)), and it affected me mentally and physically (it pissed me off and I broke a fingernail, if I'd have done one more 'low-level' letterbox I could have put my back out), so I demand my right to be heard!!

Brushed steel???!! That certainly would NOT be appropriate. Polished brass only IF you please. I approve of the lettering however. My letterbox is automated. If anyone tries to deliver anything on non-recycled paper, chainsaw blades remove their fingers.

When I moved to Brockley I did so on the understanding from my estate agent that the area was "on the up" and that many young professionals had moved into the area.I didn't expect to be transported back in time to a 1970's hippy commune. Everyone here seems to work for social services (is that the biggest employer in Lewisham?) or a teacher.Where are all the yummy mummy's, four wheel drives, Starbucks and Pizza Express restaurants?I want to be able to get up on a Sunday morning and get eggs benedict in a nice cafe (not one that looks like an ethical junk shop) where they have a copy of the Sunday Telegraph as well as the Observer (I like the sports section and yes I do still believe competetive sport is good for kids)and I can listen to people moaning about how much money we waste on the underclass, ethical green policies and the overpaid, over populated public sector.Yes I know, I should have bought in Blackhaeth, Hampstead or Fulham but I am too skint to buy there after paying out much of my income on funding the above.I am going to post this anonymously as I am afraid the 'mung-bean set' will issue a fatwa against me.

Right, I'm going to try the new shop. I expect Hugh and 4x4 will get the helicopter to the nearest Waitrose because the Broca Food Market is either not posh enough or too 'hippy' (not sure what their point actually is)

By the way, do you think Hugh is a boiling cauldron of resentment 'cos all his mates live in Hampstead? Envy is an ugly characteristic.

There is also the theory that that is not Hugh at all but only a caricature of him that took his name after he left for one of those places that 4x4 would like to go to (if he had money to match his opinion of himself).

I went to Geddes salon when it first opened. The owner also has a salon/beauty centre in west london (I think putney). The place is now beautifully refurbished and the service was excellent. I had an excellent facial, pedicure and manicure but i haven't been back since because I don't do that thing very often. I keep intending to go back though (guilt!)

To "4x4", brockley is "up and coming"; not "already there". I hope it doesn't become as pretentious as some of those other 4x4 over-priced areas e.g. clapham and it will still retain a community feel e.g. like blackheath. It may be another 10 years before brockley really makes it or it may never happen.....

I think people have to clarify here what they think "community means" - does it mean going to a church or some sort of recreational centre? Would you want to do either of those things regardless of where you live?

For me, community doesn't mean how fair trade your veg is or how ethical your lattes - it means talking to and being friendly with people. Yes, shop owners, but also your neighbours, the guy in the petrol garage, the chip shop etc - knowing and recognising people on a regular basis.

That's what a community means, at least to me, and any carefully marketed notions around what you shove in your gob just aren't quite the same.

It's interesting to see so many positive comments about Geddes Hair and Beauty. Yes, it's good but so was Top to Toe which is the business they took over and re-named. The difference appears to be the way the shop is decorated and furnished, and the prices, which are far higher.

So few things to do? It depends on your interests and circumstances, of course. I think SE4 is in many ways a very good place to bring children up, and there is no shortage of things to do for families and children.

Spot on mungaloid. And of course, since different people like different things, it's hard to say whether an area has a good community. The guys at nat's bake and juice and the artists of Manor Ave clearly have a strong sense of belonging, but it would be perfectly possible to live in Brockley without knowing a soul. Most people who live here and post here seem to feel that they belong to a strong community. The fact that there are relatively few places to go is neither here nor there. When I was a student, my college only had one (rubbish) bar. So everyone went to the same place. Great community spirit.

I am all for urban fox hunting.the feral youth of Brockley can meet outside the Wetherspoons with stolen BMX's and mountain bikes,They can then give chase to ffoxes and Mung-Bean Tree=huggers-now I would pay to see that1