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Atgatt?

Well, sure. But I think I may look at it a little differently than some and would like to hear your opinions.

"Dress for the crash, not for the ride" is something I've read and disagree with. I would say "dress for the ride with crash protection in mind."

I believe the most important thing is that we are comfortable (not wet, cold, or too hot.) Not just because being comfortable is a good thing - though of course it is. Any of the conditions listed distract our attention and physical ability to ride in control. IMHO, staying comfortable, alert, and avoiding crashes is far better than surviving them. Though it is good to have gear which minimizes the injuries when things go wrong.

That's why I reject the idea that a rider that hasn't been down is going down. When faced with a crisis I want every fiber of my being to be looking for how to avoid it; not one atom of my being should be accepting it will happen.

That's why I reject the idea that a rider that hasn't been down is going down. When faced with a crisis I want every fiber of my being to be looking for how to avoid it; not one atom of my being should be accepting it will happen.

Well, sure. But I think I may look at it a little differently than some and would like to hear your opinions.

"Dress for the crash, not for the ride" is something I've read and disagree with. I would say "dress for the ride with crash protection in mind."

I believe the most important thing is that we are comfortable (not wet, cold, or too hot.) Not just because being comfortable is a good thing - though of course it is. Any of the conditions listed distract our attention and physical ability to ride in control. IMHO, staying comfortable, alert, and avoiding crashes is far better than surviving them. Though it is good to have gear which minimizes the injuries when things go wrong.

Probably a dumb post.

Not a dumb post-a good post. The efficiency of dress in relationship to conditions is important. My experience (in a number of things) has proven the right amount of gear to conditions will make the task at hand be a lot more enjoyable and survivable. I find achieving this balance easier said than done. Gary

"I bought a ticket to the circus, I don't know why I was so surprised to see elephants" Norris Church MailerMod Squad
2009 F800GS 1994 TW200

Basically it means have your gear on that you will need if you have to eject. This sounds pretty normal and should make sense, until you realize that you need to wear thermal underwear around a middle-eastern base where its 120 degrees F in the cockpit, because you are going to be flying over the hindu-kush in Afghanistan for your mission later on, or you have to wear a "poopy-suit" because you are flying over a large body of water, but then are expected to perform intensive flying in a uniform that doesn't breathe. Some additionally load up their survival vest with a bunch gear like they are going on a camping trip.

I take on another mantra instead: "Dress for mission success" I want enough gear to keep me alive in the very low probability that something goes wrong, but also really want to ensure that my ground-based gear does not affect my performance in the air.

Much is the same with motorcycle safety gear -- I've had bulky gloves and boots that impair feel and shifting, jackets that are too rigid to move and clear easily, and helmets that are safe, yet stifle vision and movement. I think the #1 consideration is fatigue. If your gear wears you down, through comfort or temperature or whatever, you are far more dangerous to yourself on the road, that being alert in lighter gear. The other thing to think about too, is that your bike is a piece of gear. I think that most people on this forum would agree with me, but others hate hearing it -- the BMW is one of the safer bikes in the world. If you are riding a BMW, you are already maximizing your best piece of safety gear: your brain.

Well, sure. But I think I may look at it a little differently than some and would like to hear your opinions.

"Dress for the crash, not for the ride" is something I've read and disagree with. I would say "dress for the ride with crash protection in mind."

I believe the most important thing is that we are comfortable (not wet, cold, or too hot.) Not just because being comfortable is a good thing - though of course it is. Any of the conditions listed distract our attention and physical ability to ride in control. IMHO, staying comfortable, alert, and avoiding crashes is far better than surviving them. Though it is good to have gear which minimizes the injuries when things go wrong.

Probably a dumb post.

You're wrong ...... it's NOT a dumb post.

I like to use "Dress for the ride - not the beach" in my MSF classes. That makes a statement about the standard summer dress here in the midwest (tee, shorts, sandals) being hopelessly inappropriate, and at the same time, stresses ATGATT.

ATGATT (All The Gear All The Time) doesn't mean you have to settle for too hot or too cold or too uncomfortable - just prepped for the worst, should all your experience and awareness and caution just not be enough today. While a serious crash is not enivitable ("Those who have crashed, and those who will.."), we do engage in a higher level of risk when operating a motorcycle than a car/SUV.

With ATGATT, I always dress for a pleasurable ride, but know that I am prepared for a slide as well.

I wear my Aerostich suit in 100 degree temps, and I'm comfortable as long as I'm moving, as plenty of air circulates through the suit. I wear my Aerostich suit in 20 degree temps, and I'm comfortable as long as I have enough fleece on under the suit.

There is no such thing as bad weather - only inappropriate gear.*

*I will count ice and snow as "bad riding conditions" - but only if you don't have a two-wheel drive Ural.

In the FOGOST M/C (Fat Old Guys On Skinny Tires), we have a slogan; "dress for the slide, not your pride". In the spirit of promoting appropriate riding attire, I have been developing a letter grade system to assign a score based on "dress for the slide". For example, If rider has on a full face helmet, full leathers,and boots, that rider would get an an A. On my scale, every rider without a helmet gets an F. I invite all of you to put my grading system in practice as you observe the other riders among us.

I do not understand why some wear uncomfortable gear that would impair their riding ability. My BMW and olympia jacket and riding pants are very comfortable.
And not just that it make packing for a multi day trip very easy. While on the road and my gear gets dirty I wash it off in the shower hang it up and it is good to go the next day.
My only problem is layering up in the winter when things get a little bulky.

Good point to make that there's more to riding safe than just wearing the appropriate gear. And the gear can change depending on weather, type of riding, etc. I think it's also important to note that just because one helmet, jacket, etc. is a good fit for one does not necessarily mean it's a good fit for another. There are many options for riding gear, and one should find what fits them and their riding style the best.

Also, some have different tolerances of risk and what they can tolerate wearing. For me, I prefer to wear proper riding pants, jacket, gloves, helmet, boots, etc. Basically, I'm covered head to toe, and it allows me to enjoy riding a bit more, since I know I've taken the most precautions I can. The added heat in stop and go traffic is a small price to pay, but worth it in my mind. I realize that some don't share my opinion. That's OK in my book. Just don't expect me to start riding in shorts and T-shirt (granted that's the far other extreme here).

"Dress for the crash, not for the ride" is something I've read and disagree with. I would say "dress for the ride with crash protection in mind.".

Could be; there are a lot of ways to approach this issue, most are not wrong, they just address a different set of needs or priorities for the individual involved.

I think of motorcycling somewhat like another of my sports, ocean kayaking; In kayaking you have a similar conundrum. Basically, you dress for the water temperature and your survival for an extended period of time in it, rather than the air temperature that you may well be blissfully paddling along in.

Bottom line, it really is just a personal ‘«£risk vs reward‘«ō decision. We make lots of them in life and if we could only learn that these decisions are really only correct for the person making the decision, life would be a lot better for us all.

In the FOGOST M/C (Fat Old Guys On Skinny Tires), we have a slogan; "dress for the slide, not your pride". In the spirit of promoting appropriate riding attire, I have been developing a letter grade system to assign a score based on "dress for the slide". For example, If rider has on a full face helmet, full leathers,and boots, that rider would get an an A. On my scale, every rider without a helmet gets an F. I invite all of you to put my grading system in practice as you observe the other riders among us.

ATGATT and weather extremes just costs money. You each have to decide how much skin is worth and buy gear accordingly. It is a matter of your priorities.

There are good "most seasons" jackets. I like my Aerostich Roadcrafter for most weather. It is my traveling gear, unless I take my Darian which can be both a little cooler (unlined) and warmer (big fluffy liner I seldom use). But here in the Texas southwest desert I sometimes wear a First Gear mesh jacket but only for short trips where dehydration won't be a big issue. In very cold weather I prefer a jacket warmer than my Roadcrafter. A Darian with the big fluffy liner is warmer than my Roadcrafter, even with a Gerbing electric jacket liner.

I sometimes wear an evaporative vest. It is part of my traveling gear. It works well in hot weather under my Roadcrafter or Darian. It only lasts about 10 or 15 minutes under my mesh First Gear Jacket though.

For pants I travel with two pair: My Roadcrafter pants with a zip-on bib top and a pair of First Gear ventilated partly mesh pants.

Sometimes I'm chilly. Sometimes I'm warm. That's part of the price I pay for being on a motorcycle instead of in a car with an air conditioner, or heater.

But I'm still not willing to risk paying for comfort with my skin.

Paul Glaves - "Big Bend", Texas U.S.A
"The greatest challenge to any thinker is stating the problem in a way that will allow a solution." - Bertrand Russellhttp://web.bigbend.net/~glaves/