I rang up Graham Bates today and he's started working out a price. As far as he can tell so far (and he's still waiting on prices for some of the brackets that will need to be laser-cut), the cost of a top water rail (VX style) will be around £130 - £150. This will be in stainless (not entirely sure of grade, but I requested 316). I'd appreciate an indication of how people view that, so as to know whether to proceed or not.

The back/bottom pipe is not so easy, strange as it may seem, and may be more problematic and more expensive. The pipe diameter is larger (1 3/8" as opposed to 1 1/4" for the top rail) and the bends are trickier.

Graham Bates is working on a jig for the top rail(s), and we have the option of buying the jigs, which will be about £350-ish. If we buy the jigs, then he will only make parts to order from them for us. I'm not sure on the benefits or otherwise of this.

So - how does £130 - £150 for a top water rail in stainless sound? Personally I think it sounds very fair. It was never going to be cheap and should last the life of the car.

Good old Lancia - why keep pipes a consistent size when you can make them different I had thought the bends on the rear water rail would complicate matters just because of the shape, I was not aware they were a different size.

Price sounds about what I would expect it to be for an item such as this in S/Steel.

As for the jig / tooling, the benefit is that you get a consistent item being made and you dont have to pay extra to have each one handmade from scratch. Yes, its a bit of extra cost up front but if your going to be making them in batches it keeps the cost down in the longer run. I own the tooling for the rear spring cups and the Coupe inner wing splash panels. I can make them to order when I feel like it or when there is sufficient demand.

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1981 2000 Coupe S2/FL1976 1600 Coupe S1

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.

Matt, I'm not sure if that's what was meant by buying the jig. The way I understand it is that there will be a jig manufactured to make the water rail. The jig will then exist for Graham Bates to manufacture the water rail and sell the water rail to anyone he chooses. If we, as in however many of us want to chip in for it, choose to buy the jig, then Graham Bates will only manufacture water rails for us, therefore creating a 'point of sale' by making it exclusively available as a retail item from us, rather than him. I may be wrong of course, but that's how I'm reading it. Please, Mangocrazy, correct me if I'm wrong!

Understeer is when you hit the wall with the front of the car. Oversteer is when you hit the wall with the back of the car. Horsepower is how fast you hit the wall and torque is how far you send the wall across the field once youve hit it.

Yes, that's the way I understand it, Andrew. I'm not worrying myself about it just yet, but I think longer term we should look to own the jig. It will stay at GB Engineering, but means that repeat orders are simple and the price shouldn't alter too much (assuming cost of raw materials stays reasonably constant).

In a fairly cosmic coincidence, I found a NOS top water rail in Italy and asked how much it would cost - €120 plus €30 carriage. So GB's ballpark figure of £130-150 for a stainless item looks quite appealing...!

In principle the price seems fine, whether I can dig that deep in my pockets I'm not sure so many other expenses on the Beta even though it is not actually progressing that I have to keep tight control on nice but not absolutely essential frivolities (and ebay impulse buys!). Is that price including VAT by the way? Anyway if I can stretch to it I will be up for a set.

'fraid not... I must admit I've let it slip, and haven't been chasing progress. I'm currently at the moneypit in France with only limited internet access, but will get the process moving again when I return to UK in mid-May.

I've been in touch with GB Engineering (in fact he contacted me, which was a good reminder) and GB will provide me with a more accurate quote; previous estimate was £120-150. There won't be any VAT as he is (mercifully) not VAT-registered. As soon as he gets back with prices (and minimum order quantity) I'lll post it up.

Chrome one will look pretty when fitted. These are getting scarce now in good condition; was really hoping we would've had remanufactured parts sorted for these by now, as per this thread's beginnings way back when...