Due to popular demand, here is the section to discuss everything to do with our pets. Please remember though to post any queries regarding pet livestock in the livestock section as you are more likely to get the right response there!

Demi
In fairness it should be stated that any dog will wreck you how is not stimulated although most of the working breeds are usually worse its true? cage training any dog from as young as possible avoids your home being wrecked whilst keeping the animal safe at the sametime, not only that its a great tool to teach them all sorts from safe car travel to when they sleep (our 1.4 yr old KCCS has been since 8weeks old cage trained she now sleeps in excess of eight hours nightly with a simple bed command at 10:30pm every night from where along with her half Dentastix she happily trots and as an added bonus she will often retire there of here own free will during the day if she is tired or just wants peace been the best thing we ever did for her, she travels in an identical crate in the cars backseat has never been sick nor complained about being in the car (again from very young) whilst keeping everyone safe (strangely if in car myself with her, she will happily lie on her seatbelt clip no matter the journeys length ?) so thus promoting safe, secure transport for all.
All of this including saving your home from attack however only comes from consistant commands and actions however, we work a treat reward based training programme that has worked very well for us and others we know, the crux really is if you leave them bored, home alone they will rapidly become wrecking machines i have seen some horrific damage to vehicles as well as homes from an unrully pet...

Nip it in the bud i advocate caging them all.....

Just learning please bear with me, we all have to learn somewhere.
Just because we don't agree, doesn't make me wrong, i state things like i see them, based solely on personal life experiences/fact, and not on forum speak or here say.

all dogs need at LEAST basic obidence training and working breeds do need LOTS more mental and physical stimulation than other breeds.
a cage is a good tool to have to get them through the puppy stage, to help with toilet training and to stop them distroying things when your not arround to watch them ie. at night or when you're out.
luckily we never needed one with our st bernard, shes never been into chewing things.
when she was a pup it was during the summer and we kept her in the garden. she had a bed in the wee outbuilding and the door was always open for her to go in and out. we spend much of our time in the garden in the summer enjoying the weather so there was usually allways someone with her. she just naturally went to pee and poo at the back of the garden far away from the main house and her wee house. i think she only peed on the floor inside our house 2 times maybe, and thats when we first got her and we were keeping her in the kitchen at night. thats also why we made her up a bed in the outbuilding instead. but she never peed in her bed outside because the door was allways open with full accsess to outside. shes never toileted inside our house after that. and now we keep her in the hall at night, or in the living room by the fire in the winter, and she just lays down and sleeps all night till we get up and let her back out in the morning.
shes never distroyed anything, luckily, but i allways keep shoes and the kids toys and stuff out her way just incase.
she is terrible arround food though. i have to put her out the room or outside when theres food in the kitchen. she'd steal everything she could get a hold of when you're not looking. and if i tell her to go away she'll move back then sit staring at me slevering all over the floor. plus i wouldn't trust her with food arround the kids. so i find it safer to just stick her outside or in the other room.
st bernard dont need too much stimulation which is grate for me because i dont have much time running arround after 2 kids. she knows basic obidience: sit, down, say, leave ect. and i take her out with me walking on the lead as much as possible when im going to the park or for a walk round the town with the kids, or to visit relatives or whatever. plus we take her in the car up to the lake or to the mountain to let her off lead for a run arround. people are scared of dogs in macedonia because there are so many street dogs they think of them like vermin. because she is so big people scream when they see her then she ends up barking at them so i dont let her off lead anywhere where there is people arround. its good though out where our wee small holding is, a few miles from our house in the center. we are the last property on the 'illegal' road, off the beaten track!, and if you continue up the lane it goes through a forest and comes out at the lake and theres never anyone arround up there so she can run arround until her hearts content, although she usually just plods allong looking for nasty stuff to roll in

A its a dogs life indeed
In contrast we unless shes on the beach or our garden have knowhere to walk her sadly no pavement even and being rural countryside no street lighting either so she gets a good walk/run on the beach everyday that i insist upon otherwise she is a true pest, her fav toy is a sqeaky fluffy pink bone shes had since we got her which if you would she would allow you to throw all day & night for her inside or out she loves it and always without fail returns to sit infont of you and drops it (she taught herself that one!) arouund food shes not nad normaily lying on the floor at your feet (in our last house however we had her car cage in the kitchen and she was put in it when we ate, due to it being used between two cars where as now we only have one so it stays in the car) she to since about 3 mths old or so could safelynwalk off lead, sit, stay and wait oh yeah and liedown some get imho far to het up with having an "obidient dog" to the point that they end up in a self enduced obsessive regime which is no fun for anyone its got to be said they must also be allowed to show their own characters and react normally to situations a great deal of fun, love and respect can easily be gained from a dog with basic training only there is no doubt of that..

Just learning please bear with me, we all have to learn somewhere.
Just because we don't agree, doesn't make me wrong, i state things like i see them, based solely on personal life experiences/fact, and not on forum speak or here say.

As some of you know I do 'home checks' for the Retired Greyhounds Trust. The RGT would not rehome a dog (of any breed), to a household with children under 5 as they can do things to annoy the most placid of dogs entirely unintentionally. Humans must learn to 'speak' dog, not the other way 'round as we are the more intelligent spiecies. IE you need to understand that, to a dog, staring & smiling can be seen as agressive behaviour, so if your toddler grins endlessly a dog can attack thinking the toddler is about to attack it. You can't stop toddlers grinning (and wouldn't want to!)

Also toddlers tend to put their hands into their mouths endlessly. Unless you intend to shut the dog out, you can't guarentee that you home is free of dog faecies, as you or dog may well carry it in underfoot.

Quite a few dogs end up in recue centres due to a 'terrible two' kicking the dog to establish their place in the pecking order of a house. We are still cavemen under out designer clothes, after all!

So you must NEVER leave a dog alone with a child of 5 or younger EVER.

I would say wait 'till your youngest is about 5 before adopting a dog, but if you are still of a mind to why not try fostering a dog to see how you get on? Do you have a friend who has a placid dog that would like to go away for a few days without incurring kennel fees?

you shouldnt ever leave any dog alone with any child, no matter how old the child or how friendly the dog.

when i was about 10 years old i was with my mum visiting her friend who had a dog. my mum and her friend went into the kitchen to make coffee and i was told not to touch the dog. of course as soon as they were out the room i went over to the dog to pat him and he jumped up and bit my face. i had puncture holes on my nose and under my eye. i was lucky he didnt get my eye!
i should of known better but still, i was only 10 years old at the time. its never made me scared of dogs though.

I'm a little perturbed, although I'm sure that everything that's been said is good advice.

But I would never, ever, consider using a cage as part of any dog's training. If I wasn't prepared to put the time and effort into a dog's training, I wouldn't even consider getting a dog. Maybe it's because I've never had anything to do with working dogs - I have one because I want one. He's a part of the family (and we don't have small children) and lives with us.

He's extremely well-behaved and I would trust him (as he trusts me) in all but the most unusual situations - but then I never put him in those situations. He plays games, sure, and is mischievous, but that's part of the charm. He is certainly not (in his normal environment) dangerous. He has large, sharp teeth, but he doesn't use them aggressively. I've had a couple of reasons to test that (when he had a bone caught on his teeth, for instance - I took that bone out by hand and he never attempted to bite me). Birds and rabbits are his mates, and he's perfectly happy with that.

So yes - as I said, I'm sure that all of the advice is good. But not all dogs are potential man-eaters, and it is perfectly possible to bring one up from puppyhood and accept that the dog will be as safe as any other member of the family.

Mike

EDIT: I agree that leaving a child alone with a dog is a potentially dangerous situation. But, to be honest, anyone who could contemplate doing that shouldn't be in charge of a child, let alone a dog.

Last edited by MKG on Fri Dec 23, 2011 12:48 am, edited 2 times in total.

A friend who lives in the same village as me wants to let her Springer Spaniel have a litter of puppies when she can so I will ask about having one of those. I can introduce it to the children as a puppy. I'm happy to train it and I know where it's coming from and the parents.

We can perhaps rescue a dog or two when we have more room and much older children

There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with cage training any dog if your going to disagree (which of course is your rigjt!) please check your facts its is a TOTALLY acceptable method of training and keeping both yourself and ypur dog safe, my dog is NOT and has never been any form of working dog she is a beautiful King Charles Cavalier Spaniel the most placid, lap and pet dog you will find by both nature and breed, it seems that the OP is dead set on doing this amd nothing any of us are going to say will make a difference.

The advise given re the Greyhound was by myself clearly stated as not being fact i had said to check with a greyhound rescue? as for getting a Springer pup a Springer by nature is a working dog and whilst usually very placis and gentle are also often hard work to train you need to master it very rapidly before it does you, also very energetic dogs so beware on the days that you openly say ypu wouldnt be able to walk it.

I reiterate however that as most have said the general consensus is that a dog with young kids is not a great idea irrespective of the breed for all and loads of other equally valid reasons to those put forward by our GRT friend above you are essentially getting the best of information by suitably trained and knowledged persons please use it wisely.

It is also true that dogs (of any breed) do not cause the problems, its withoutbdoubt us humans that do that, they only know historically and locally what is both inbred and trained.

Just learning please bear with me, we all have to learn somewhere.
Just because we don't agree, doesn't make me wrong, i state things like i see them, based solely on personal life experiences/fact, and not on forum speak or here say.

Scotsmart fundamentally you are talking negative reinforcement and MKG is talking positive. As for quoting check your facts. I suspect you may be falling foul of overreacting. Your post reads like you feel you are being attacked and I am sure that wasn't the case. As for the use of a cage, make no mistake it is so that you can manage your dog more easily so it is for the human benefit not the dogs. But that is not to say I disagree with it's use or that it is cruel. I have similar conversations with people who stable their horses. They consider themselves to be much kinder because they are keeping it warm and dry and clean. Well if you think the horse likes it so much try leaving the door open, is my reply.

As for Pumpkin & Piglet good luck. Raising it from a baby you have advantage of that "blank canvass"

As for FACTS the breed Welsh springer spaniel is altogether a calmer type than it's cousin the ESS. In field trials, the WSS is classified as a minor breed. The breeders have not gone down the route of breeding for any one quality to the detriment of the other hence the dog is Dual purpose. Whereas the ESS have, a field trial dog will look significantly different from a show dog and therefore if your friends dog is for show lines it too is likely to be a calmer type.
please please be nice.

On the issue of animals for research "The question is not, 'Can they reason?' nor, 'Can they talk?' but rather, 'Can they suffer?'" Jeremy Bentham

Im so sorry i was not trying to do any of what you mention only trying to potentially stop someone from potentially making a deadfull possibly catasrophic mistake if thats wrong then an appoligy is due and sent however years of experience with my own and rescue animals tells me differently im afraid.
I am being nice its Christmas after all

Just learning please bear with me, we all have to learn somewhere.
Just because we don't agree, doesn't make me wrong, i state things like i see them, based solely on personal life experiences/fact, and not on forum speak or here say.

All is calm . No, I wasn't attacking - I was saying that I (just me) wouldn't dream of using that method, as I think there are better ways. Just my personal opinion, and it wasn't meant to be a criticism aimed at anyone else.

if you're going to use a cage for your pup its not intended to be used as a punnishment, it should only be used to prevent the dog from peeing and pooing on the floor and chewing on your furniture when you are not arround, like at night when everyones asleep. dogs tend not to pee in their beds and as the cage is his bed it teaches him to hold on until you let him outside in the morning to the toilet and not to pee in your house. if you let the pup roam free at night he will toilet all over your house and you will wake up every morning to a 'present' on your floor along with chewed up shoes and newspappers

once he is house trained you dont need to use the cage any more. and the dog should never be locked in the cage as punnishment or for long periods of time during the day. if you work all day you should arrange for somone to come and let the dog out and take him for a walk several times during the day. or better still if you can arrange to drop the dog off at someone's house, a relitive/friend/dogsitter to look after him for you. or you could make a kennel in your garden and leave the dog outside to run free as long as your garden is secure and you're sure he wont get out. thats what we did, we've got a walled garden of about 1/4 acre with a brick built outbuilding/shed that we made a bed in for the dog. when ever we go out shes happy to stay in the garden and protect our house from intruders

my mum still uses her cage in the back of her car because she goes away to agility/flyball shows and she needs to leave one dog in the car whilst the other is compeating. as it is usually too hot to leave the dog in the car the dog is put in the cage with the boot door wide open to prevent over heating. also, she has left one dog in the back seat before ( on a cold day) and he was so excited he chewed up all the inside of the car and ripped all the seal off the window! they LOVE compeating and they get so excited when they're there, they know when they are going to a show before they've even left the house!

Last edited by demi on Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:55 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Demi
You explain exactly why and how we use ours to this day
Our dog is NOT punished by being put in her cage? this is a common and sadly banded about rumour created usually by people who neither know nor understand the phylosiphy behind training in this manner? (nobody here was intended to be banded in my previous statement btw) however by doing so since 8 weeks old we have yet to have anything destroyed, or toileted upon for that matter everything with any dog is about repitition, consistancy and love all of which she gets in equal measures?...
She infact is sitting on my knee as i write this post if only she knew it was about her, if the cage is as some beleive such a barbarack devise why does she come to us at around 9.30pm every night whimpering wanting out for her last pee, after which she comes in gets her detastix and goes to her Crate of her own free will we do not put her there, she knows its her bed even now if i was to tell her to go to bed, where do you think she would go ? she recognises this crate as a safe, quiet place for her to be we no longer have to shut her in at night as she once comfortable never moves from it! ( i know this how, simple i am disabled as such sleep little and am up all through every night)

But most importantly on the safety aspect, it also means as she is used to it, knows it wont harm her and furthermore she is safe in her wee house, when she is in the car she is locked in with her door shut that has no effect on her that it doesnt have in the house, she is NOT put in either she is allowed to go in and out of both herself that is so, so important to force them to do nothing that would be cruel!

I should also point out that no matter how caring or good a dog owner you are there are times when said dog will naturally be either a danger to yourself or itself (likes of when we were recently getting a new front door fitted) where telling her to go to her bed, and locking her in kept her safe and got the job done 10 times faster there are also loads of other similar instances likes of when the new lounge suite was delivered etc etc.

Its all about how, where and why you using the crate to begin with ..

Just learning please bear with me, we all have to learn somewhere.
Just because we don't agree, doesn't make me wrong, i state things like i see them, based solely on personal life experiences/fact, and not on forum speak or here say.