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Do the Habs need a heavyweight enforcer?

View Poll Results: Should the Habs claim Matt Kassian on waivers from Minnesota?

If you consider Darche and Armstrong "PK specialists", well it's a proof that you can make any player you want into one. Really. None of those guys have ever been known for their defensive prowesses before coming to Montreal. So the "PK specialist role" argument you bring is irrelevant.

I never claimed they were "PK specialists", but they can play the PK yes.
You can stick anyone on the PK and claim they are a PK'er, difference is how many goals get scored on him. There is a difference between PK'er and PK specialist. Neither of those categories Kassian fits in to. Least Darche and Armstrong could play the PK and be decent at it. If Kassian was useful for PK, he'd see a lot more icetime.

1. False. Having an EFFECTIVE enforcer out there keeps the opposition in check. They have it in the back of their minds, and I guaranty guys like McLaren and Kostka wouldn't have beaten Gorges and Gallagher up if they knew they'd have to pay for it at some point.

2. It's about being as effective as you can, for all the short, middle and long term. Gallagher's game is based on aggressiveness and pugnacity. He won't keep that up for more than 2 years if he takes too much abuse like he did the other night.

3. Kassian might be horrible with the puck, he's still can't be less useful than Armstrong. I don't care if he produces or not or if he's a defensive wizard or not. Moen and White are more than capable to play. You don't need him on the ice for 20 minutes. You need him for 5 minutes. You double shift a young guy to give him more experience after that, or you put your hottest player on that line. If someone takes a liberty on Kostka, you get your enforcer on the ice the next shift he takes, and you tell him to go abuse him. Especially when the game is lost. At least, he knows he can't do it again without retaliation.

Seriously. What game are you watching? Curling?

Let me ask you this, what game were you watching? Obviously not the Leafs and Habs game.

Gallagher went after Kostka.

Gorges had to practically force McLaren to fight him. McLaren CLEARLY held up in that fight. It wasn't a case of those two running around picking fights with smaller players.

And tell me, what would Kassian (a completely useless NHL player) done to help the team win? Fight McLaren in the last few minutes of a 6-0 game? I get it, some people are still pissed the Leafs humiliated us. Thankfully our GM isn't as panicked as some of our fans, and won't waste a valuable roster spot on a useless scrubbo like Kassian.

2. Gallagher has played like that his entire career, from Jr to the AHL and now the NHL, and that's how he made it to the NHL. If he stops playing like that, he won't be in the NHL anymore. I doubt he needs another player on the roster to continue the same type of play he has produced for years now.

3. There is a reason why 30 GM's don't think he's NHL worthy, including the GM of our team. Apparently you know better, but I'll side with the guys who have jobs in hockey. I think it's a safe bet.

Habs fans have this giant insecurity, and they want us to claim every single scrubbo that hits waivers.

Reality check, there's a reason those players hit waivers, they aren't NHL worthy. Marc Bergevin obviously agrees in this particular situation, or he would have picked him up for free.

Almost 700 players are in the NHL, Kassian is not because he is not NHL worthy.

Let me ask you this, what game were you watching? Obviously not the Leafs and Habs game.

Gallagher went after Kostka.

Gorges had to practically force McLaren to fight him. McLaren CLEARLY held up in that fight. It wasn't a case of those two running around picking fights with smaller players.

And tell me, what would Kassian (a completely useless NHL player) done to help the team win? Fight McLaren in the last few minutes of a 6-0 game?

2. Gallagher has played like that his entire career, from Jr to the AHL and now the NHL, and that's how he made it to the NHL. If he stops playing like that, he won't be in the NHL anymore. I doubt he needs another player on the roster to continue the same type of play he has produced for years now.

3. There is a reason why 30 GM's don't think he's NHL worthy, including the GM of our team. Apparently you know better, but I'll side with the guys who have jobs in hockey. I think it's a safe bet.

Habs fans have this giant insecurity, and they want us to claim every single scrubbo that hits waivers.

Reality check, there's a reason those players hit waivers, they aren't NHL worthy. Marc Bergevin obviously agrees in this particular situation, or he would have picked him up for free.

Almost 700 players are in the NHL, Kassian is not because he is not NHL worthy.

p.s. Your little jab about curling is cute, but not needed.

Wow. You're asking me if I watched the game?

Kostka was the first one to drop the gloves. How anyone can discuss that just gets over me.
As for Gorges, he was heading to Orr to defend his teammates, and McLaren intercepted him and basically forced him to fight. They even said so after the game. Listen to Gorges' interview.

As for Kassian or any other enforcer for that matter, there's no way we would have won that game, with or without one. But I can guarantee Plekanec wouldn't have been ran over, and that Gallagher/Gorges probably would not have had to fight against way bigger opponents. Because in the end, those guys who abused them knew they would have had to pay the price.

It's very naive of you to believe a guy like Gallagher will keep playing in this league because, you know, he's been doing so for his entire junior career. Oranges and apples. When a man abuses you, it's not like another random 19 years old kid is roughing you up.

As for not claiming Kassian, where did I blame Bergevin and say he was nuts? I even said higher in one post that I respected his point of view, but that I didn't share it. Frankly, some people here should learn how to read before commenting. That being said, the reality in the North East division is very different than elsewhere in the league.

I would hope a team like the Bruins or the Leafs wouldn't claim Kassian, as they already have enough guys with them. As for the "I'll trust the one who's in the league" argument... Really? These guys always take the good decision? Then why are we even discussing him? Close the forum! Everybody ought to agree with these guys I guess...

As for the curling part, well it's pretty obvious a lot of people here know nothing about the effects of intimidation in this sport, and how a player can get tamer and tamer as his career goes on if he takes too much abuse.

Kostka was the first one to drop the gloves. How anyone can discuss that just gets over me.
As for Gorges, he was heading to Orr to defend his teammates, and McLaren intercepted him and basically forced him to fight. They even said so after the game. Listen to Gorges' interview.

Again, as I clearly wrote, Gallagher went after Kostka. Was it smart? Nope, but Gallagher has never backed down since his JR days, and he won't start now, or else he'll lose his job in the NHL.
Gorges was looking for a fight, as you said. McLaren wasn't. So again, the two guys you mentioned (McLaren and Kostka) were not going around picking on smaller players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

As for Kassian or any other enforcer for that matter, there's no way we would have won that game, with or without one. But I can guarantee Plekanec wouldn't have been ran over, and that Gallagher/Gorges probably would not have had to fight against way bigger opponents. Because in the end, those guys who abused them knew they would have had to pay the price.

Just like no one tried anything when Laraque was around? Or when Staubitz was around? Or were those guys useless, wastes of a roster that really didn't help the team, or protect them.
The Flyers and Bruins are known as goon teams, yet their players get injured all the time. Go figure. With big ole mean Thornton, Chara and Lucic on their team, Boston has lost a ton of good players to injury. The fact of the matter is that 1 goon won't stop things from happening in a rink.

It never has, and it never will. There's a perception that it will though, for some reason, even if history has proven otherwise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

It's very naive of you to believe a guy like Gallagher will keep playing in this league because, you know, he's been doing so for his entire junior career. Oranges and apples. When a man abuses you, it's not like another random 19 years old kid is roughing you up.

It is very naive of you to think that Gallagher will get intimidated in the NHL. He isn't that type of player. I've been following him since his WHL days, and if you think he's going to be intimidated, you are dead wrong. You might think he will, be he never has, and he hasn't been intimidated so far in the NHL. He's a pitbull and that's his bread and butter. Without it, he's not an NHL'er. He needs to play like that to ensure his career in the big leagues last. He's not going to change. And if he does, he's no longer a useful NHL player. I doubt he makes that decision. Have some faith in the kid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

As for not claiming Kassian, where did I blame Bergevin and say he was nuts? I even said higher in one post that I respected his point of view, but that I didn't share it. Frankly, some people here should learn how to read before commenting. That being said, the reality in the North East division is very different than elsewhere in the league.

Uhm...I have no idea what you are talking about. Did I even use the word nuts? I said he didn't panic after that loss. Which is good. It's probably what separates GM's from fans. We panic. They don't.

Learn to read? Are you serious? I never even used the word nuts. That comment is very ironic considering you read something that wasn't there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

I would hope a team like the Bruins or the Leafs wouldn't claim Kassian, as they already have enough guys with them. As for the "I'll trust the one who's in the league" argument... Really? These guys always take the good decision? Then why are we even discussing him? Close the forum! Everybody ought to agree with these guys I guess...

The reason 30 clubs didn't want him is because he is a bad NHL player that offers little to no value to the team. It's as simple as that.
You may think otherwise, and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that people who are paid to perform this job completely disagree. And I happen to side with them. He's useless.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

As for the curling part, well it's pretty obvious a lot of people here know nothing about the effects of intimidation in this sport, and how a player can get tamer and tamer as his career goes on if he takes too much abuse.

The curling jab was simply a weak insult at the end of confused rant.
Gallagher won't change because he went after Kostka. And Gorges won't stop defending his teammates because he practically forced McLaren to fight. Some scrubbo that can hardly skate won't change a thing. We've tried this before, and it failed miserably.

The Habs obviously don't need a scrub like Kassian, or they would have picked him up for free. He wasn't worth it, apparently, according to Bergevin.
I get that we are super fans, and we know what's best, but perhaps have faith in the GM of the team. He probably has a better handle on it than us.

Could the Habs use more size? Absolutely. But it's irrational to want to fill that void with a waste of a roster space.

I'm starting to get the feeling that those clamoring for Kassian never saw him play, and only watched a few clips on hockeyfights.com

I'd like to see the Habs pick up an Enforcer, but not someone who can't play a regular shift. If there was someone in the mould of a Erskine or Rupp available, then go for it. If there's only someone who would be virtually useless except for caving in the occasional skull, pass.

__________________
The French Canadian rule: Read about it, go to bed smarter.

Again, as I clearly wrote, Gallagher went after Kostka. Was it smart? Nope, but Gallagher has never backed down since his JR days, and he won't start now, or else he'll lose his job in the NHL.
Gorges was looking for a fight, as you said. McLaren wasn't. So again, the two guys you mentioned (McLaren and Kostka) were not going around picking on smaller players.

Just like no one tried anything when Laraque was around? Or when Staubitz was around? Or were those guys useless, wastes of a roster that really didn't help the team, or protect them.
The Flyers and Bruins are known as goon teams, yet their players get injured all the time. Go figure. With big ole mean Thornton, Chara and Lucic on their team, Boston has lost a ton of good players to injury. The fact of the matter is that 1 goon won't stop things from happening in a rink.

It never has, and it never will. There's a perception that it will though, for some reason, even if history has proven otherwise.

It is very naive of you to think that Gallagher will get intimidated in the NHL. He isn't that type of player. I've been following him since his WHL days, and if you think he's going to be intimidated, you are dead wrong. You might think he will, be he never has, and he hasn't been intimidated so far in the NHL. He's a pitbull and that's his bread and butter. Without it, he's not an NHL'er. He needs to play like that to ensure his career in the big leagues last. He's not going to change. And if he does, he's no longer a useful NHL player. I doubt he makes that decision. Have some faith in the kid.

Uhm...I have no idea what you are talking about. Did I even use the word nuts? I said he didn't panic after that loss. Which is good. It's probably what separates GM's from fans. We panic. They don't.

Learn to read? Are you serious? I never even used the word nuts. That comment is very ironic considering you read something that wasn't there.

The reason 30 clubs didn't want him is because he is a bad NHL player that offers little to no value to the team. It's as simple as that.
You may think otherwise, and that's fine, but it doesn't change the fact that people who are paid to perform this job completely disagree. And I happen to side with them. He's useless.

The curling jab was simply a weak insult at the end of confused rant.
Gallagher won't change because he went after Kostka. And Gorges won't stop defending his teammates because he practically forced McLaren to fight. Some scrubbo that can hardly skate won't change a thing. We've tried this before, and it failed miserably.

The Habs obviously don't need a scrub like Kassian, or they would have picked him up for free. He wasn't worth it, apparently, according to Bergevin.
I get that we are super fans, and we know what's best, but perhaps have faith in the GM of the team. He probably has a better handle on it than us.

Could the Habs use more size? Absolutely. But it's irrational to want to fill that void with a waste of a roster space.

Nothing I will say will make you change your mind. You just don't want to see how Kostka forced Gallagher into a fight, and that McLaren was actually the one who intercepted Gorges, and then proceeded to laugh at him in his own building.

As for comparing Laraque with anything wearing a pair of skates, it shows how much you generalize because it didn'T work out with that excuse of a team player. We tried to get a sniper in Cammalleri and the results ended up being so so. Hey, let's forget about acquiring any sniper, because clearly, since Cammalleri was not as effective as we wanted him to be, all snipers are bound to fail.

As for the effects of physicality on players, as far as I'm concerned, you're way off. And very naive.

But no matter what I say, it's useless. It's a waste of time for both you and I. So keep your opinion, I'll keep mine. The recipe we've been using in the last decade has led us nowhere. It's time to change the ingredients. And by saying that, I never pretended to be any more knowledgable than anyone, or than Bergevin himself. I just would have acted differently. And I particularly don't like people who tell me that we can claim this player because of our "depth".

EDIT:
Just read the part about the "confused rant". Who the hell do you think you are to judge other people,s opinion like that? I guess taking a page or two out of the book of our opponents is not an option? We,re above that? We're just better than that? You fail miserably to understand anything about the impact of guys like Gallagher and Gorges taking abuse as they did the other night. I wonder if you ever played the game. Seriously.

I'm done answering you, as you're obviously right on everything and know everything there is to know about sport, hockey, and the fact that guys like Gorges and Gallagher fighting against guys significantly bigger than them is normal.

Nothing I will say will make you change your mind. You just don't want to see how Kostka forced Gallagher into a fight, and that McLaren was actually the one who intercepted Gorges, and then proceeded to laugh at him in his own building.

So when Gallagher ripped off Kostka's helmet, you don't think that was Gallagher forcing the issue? I guess Kostka forced Gallagher to fight by letting him rip off his helmet so nicely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

As for comparing Laraque with anything wearing a pair of skates, it shows how much you generalize because it didn'T work out with that excuse of a team player. We tried to get a sniper in Cammalleri and the results ended up being so so. Hey, let's forget about acquiring any sniper, because clearly, since Cammalleri was not as effective as we wanted him to be, all snipers are bound to fail.

I pointed out a team that is loaded with so called goons, that get injured all the time.

Fact of the matter is goons won't stop squat. History proves it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

As for the effects of physicality on players, as far as I'm concerned, you're way off. And very naive.

That's fine. You can think I am naive, and I can think you are ignorant to the type player Gallagher is, what keeps him in the league, and what he needs to keep doing.

He's not going to change just because he gets roughed up. That's his game. He thrives off it, and has his entire career.

Care to address the whole "I wish people would learn to read" comment? I mean, you basically insulted me while you went on your confused rant, all the while inventing something I didn't say. That's funny stuff, but not exactly a logical argument.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GFORCE

But no matter what I say, it's useless. It's a waste of time for both you and I. So keep your opinion, I'll keep mine. The recipe we've been using in the last decade has led us nowhere. It's time to change the ingredients. And by saying that, I never pretended to be any more knowledgable than anyone, or than Bergevin himself. I just would have acted differently. And I particularly don't like people who tell me that we can claim this player because of our "depth".

I'd like to see the Habs pick up an Enforcer, but not someone who can't play a regular shift. If there was someone in the mould of a Erskine or Rupp available, then go for it. If there's only someone who would be virtually useless except for caving in the occasional skull, pass.

Agreed, and we need to stop calling those players enforcers. They are goons. They are fighters. They barely pass as hockey players.

I would be fine with Montreal finding a big, nasty forward who can skate and drafting him. However if he can't skate he isn't going to mold with the Canadiens. This has been fact since forever.

So when Gallagher ripped off Kostka's helmet, you don't think that was Gallagher forcing the issue? I guess Kostka forced Gallagher to fight by letting him rip off his helmet so nicely.

I pointed out a team that is loaded with so called goons, that get injured all the time.

Fact of the matter is goons won't stop squat. History proves it.

That's fine. You can think I am naive, and I can think you are ignorant to the type player Gallagher is, what keeps him in the league, and what he needs to keep doing.

He's not going to change just because he gets roughed up. That's his game. He thrives off it, and has his entire career.

Care to address the whole "I wish people would learn to read" comment? I mean, you basically insulted me while you went on your confused rant, all the while inventing something I didn't say. That's funny stuff, but not exactly a logical argument.

If you were discussing the possibility of acquiring a serviceable asset, sure, but we aren't. We are talking about a ****** player that no one wanted to pick up, even for free.

Fact of the matter is, there's a reason everyone passed on him, including Bergevin. I get that you are still hurting from the Leafs loss, but try to think rationally and logically.

Have you actually ever watched him play? Honest question. Have you ever watched a regular shift, and not just a clip on hockeyfights.com? He's a huge liability on the ice.

Let's keep watching guys like Gallagher and Gorges fight. It's normal and they should expect it. As for playing with an edge, well Gallagher totally was looking to get his ass kicked the other night by ripping poor Matt Kostka's helmet off. And quite obviously, all is well and good in Habs land. Because the other teams out there count on guys that are so much better than Kassian out there in MacDermid, Orr, McLaren, Barch, Parros, Erksine and Shelley.

I'd like to see the Habs pick up an Enforcer, but not someone who can't play a regular shift. If there was someone in the mould of a Erskine or Rupp available, then go for it. If there's only someone who would be virtually useless except for caving in the occasional skull, pass.

Agreed on both points.

He has to be able to play hockey. I believe Bergevin shares that point of view.

Why can better teams have these one dimensional players and we can't? Are we that good? No.

I don't get it.

Those teams have better depth.

New Jersey had Cam Janssen last year and made it to the Cup Finals. This year they lost Parise. Suddenly, Janssen is now on the waivers and nobody cares to pick him up. That's because they need their bottom six to step up for the lack of goals until a guy like Henrique can develop.

Shawn Thornton is a true enforcer because he can play NHL minutes and participate in defensive situations.

Leaf fans were frustrated with Colton Orr taking up an NHL spot until the Canadiens game. Now they love him for entertainment reasons. Our defence made him look like a superstar.

Let's keep watching guys like Gallagher and Gorges fight. It's normal and they should expect it. As for playing with an edge, well Gallagher totally was looking to get his ass kicked the other night by ripping poor Matt Kostka's helmet off. And quite obviously, all is well and good in Habs land. Because the other teams out there count on guys that are so much better than Kassian out there in MacDermid, Orr, McLaren, Barch, Parros, Erksine and Shelley.

No kidding. The things you can read...

Gallagher ripped off Kostka's helmet, what else was he expecting? He picked his battle there, literally.

McLaren didn't even want to fight Gorges.

There's a reason everyon passed on Kassian. He's no good. Not worth the roster spot, or else at least 1 GM would have taken a shot on him, for free.

At this point I hope Montreal acquires a big goon they can get lit up on from the six minutes of hockey he plays a game just so they can proclaim his powerful intimidation after wrestling other heavyweights to the ground.

Or even better, we get back Ryan O'Byrne for peanuts, O'Byrne plays horrible positioning every game and gets us on the PK for a whole period anytime someone takes a run at a Canadiens player. And then people can act like nobody is taking a run at a Habs player again because O'Byrne might jump them. Live in their pretty little bubble.

Wrong, we're actually so bad, our GM must be a moron to have passed on a guy who wasnt claimed by anybody

I totally said that. Yeah right. Good job putting words in my mouth.

We're not above the league, and with a 2-5 record against, we're definitely not above our division. I feel particularly bad for guys like Gorges, Gallagher, Plekanec, Subban, but most of all, a guy like Prust, who'll have to play a role he doesn't have to tools to play for the remainder of the season.

Does it mean we're doomed and that we'll finish 15th in the East? Definitely not. But we're taking a much tougher path by not acting.

I don't care about Kassian. I just want a guy to help Prust. The guy is alone.

New Jersey had Cam Janssen last year and made it to the Cup Finals. This year they lost Parise. Suddenly, Janssen is now on the waivers and nobody cares to pick him up. That's because they need their bottom six to step up for the lack of goals until a guy like Henrique can develop.

Shawn Thornton is a true enforcer because he can play NHL minutes and participate in defensive situations.

Leaf fans were frustrated with Colton Orr taking up an NHL spot until the Canadiens game. Now they love him for entertainment reasons. Our defence made him look like a superstar.

Not true. Leaf fans love Colton Orr. Always have.

So better teams have more depth and can afford to have an enforcer, and poorer teams can afford to because they don't have depth? Is that correct?

Bottom line is this: we don't mind being pushed around. It's that simple.

At this point I hope Montreal acquires a big goon they can get lit up on from the six minutes of hockey he plays a game just so they can proclaim his powerful intimidation after wrestling other heavyweights to the ground.

Or even better, we get back Ryan O'Byrne for peanuts, O'Byrne plays horrible positioning every game and gets us on the PK for a whole period anytime someone takes a run at a Canadiens player. And then people can act like nobody is taking a run at a Habs player again because O'Byrne might jump them. Live in their pretty little bubble.

Did you watch the game where Landeskog got injured?

O'Byrne fought the guy who hit him, took a 2+2+5+10, and the Avs got scored on twice on the PP.

O'Byrne fought the guy who hit him, took a 2+2+5+10, and the Avs got scored on twice on the PP.

JUSTICE!!! lol

Avs lost the game & their captain.

But O'Byrne punched a guy a few times, so everything turned out ok.

I wonder why most teams in the league have a legit enforcer. Reading you, you'd believe they should have extinguished as of now, since, you know, making aggressors answer for what they do is useless. Right?

I wonder why most teams in the league have a legit enforcer. Reading you, you'd believe they should have extinguished as of now, since, you know, making aggressors answer for what they do is useless. Right?

Not always, but it often is. I never said anything about hockey players that can play a regular shift. They are fine. If they can fight, even better. Prust probably (and I haven't checked) has more fights in the league than the majority of the "legit enforcers". Difference is, he can actually play hockey between shifts, thus he is not a waste of a roster spot.

Useless players like Kassian, nanh, they don't help. He's a terrible player, and since you have dodged the question I will assume you never saw him play, saw a big guy on waivers and hoped the Habs would pick him up. Thankfully Bergevin isn't that short sighted.

Besides, what good did it do that O'Byrne fought Stuart? Other than losing the game for his team of course. I guess that's a plus in bizzaro world. But hey, he punched Stuart, so losing the game was worth it, right?

If a guy like Rupp (albeit he is getting up there in age) would come around, sure, take a flyer on him because he can actually play hockey.

p.s. I thought you weren't going to respond to me. A change of heart I presume, but since you didn't take your ball and go home, I am still waiting for you to explain your "I wish people would learn to read" comment. I mean, you did straight up invent something that you never read, and then accuse me of not being able to read. That's A+ stuff

How hard is it to comprehend that a guy like Rupp can play a regular shift, and Kassian cannot. However Rupp has declined lately, and personally I would prefer someone younger. If Rupp went on waivers, I would probably want the Habs to take a flyer on him. Pretty simple concept. He can play hockey and not be a giant liability on the ice, like Kassian.

Your ad hominem's are simply an extension of your lack of an argument, or else you would have addressed the many points brought forth. It's unfortunate that you can't stick to the topic and reply any of the arguments. Not surprising, but unfortunate.