<p>I guess I don't, since I'm talking theory...</p>
<p>Well, I think that is enough for me today.</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Apr 15, 2013 4:09 PM, "Aaron Welch" <<a href="mailto:n2nightfall@gmail.com">n2nightfall@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto"><div>I am very sad that you would send me an email stating all that stuff. It just shows how little you understand about how economics actually works in a capitalist economy in the digital age. Information is power and is more valuable than money in today's economy.</div>
<div><br></div><div>-AW</div><div><br>On Apr 15, 2013, at 2:57 PM, Stephen Kraus <<a href="mailto:ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com" target="_blank">ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div dir="ltr">If you are depending on media organizations for financial advice, specifically CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc, then I can understand why you might be upset with economic science. This is pretty common for all the sciences, people would rather ask their politicians or news organizations if the Theory of Evolution/Big Bang Theory/ Global Warming is real than the actual scientists.<br>

<br>However, the assumption that a system we create and change is totally within our control is rather false, otherwise car accidents would be a thing of the past and house fires would be a lot less common. Every little variable counts, and economics is no different, you could be as rich as you want and there is a good chance that things can go totally against you due to minor changes outside your control.<br>

<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Apples and oranges Stephen. There is no psychological element to climate change. Human behavior cannot immediately effect a total collapse of the climate. The climate system functions without our input and the economy is driven by our choices and values.</div>

<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Lets put it this way:<br><br>When the Glass Steagall Act was struck down, it was already estimated by many economists that it would lead to a financial crisis in the future, and while it took some time for it to happen and they couldn't estimated EXACTLY what would happen.<br>

<br>Same thing could be said of Climate Change: Science has been proclaiming it would happen for years, with much booing and anger from the public at large, but now we are starting to see the effects and the models are beginning to line up, doesn't make climate science any less valid.</div>

Pilots *KNOW* that the weather forecast is nothing else than a horoscope with numbers.<br>
<duck><br>
Does that equalize the 'Science of Economy' with the 'Science of Astrology'?<br>
Let the firestorm begin! ;-)<br>
</duck><br>
ET <br><div><div>
<br>
Randy Yates writes: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
There's very few sciences that I don't trust, economics is one of them.<br>
Call it backward thinking if you want, but I find economics experts about<br>
as credible as big foot experts. I wouldn't even trust a super computer<br>
mining big data to predict the economy. There's too many factors that come<br>
into play to change it. There's the obvious things like natural disasters<br>
and the outbreak of war, but there's also events like a damn economics<br>
expert making a TV appearance or writing an article about something. All<br>
those things can alter the natural flow of the economy. So I don't see it<br>
as a very accurate science. A physicists can't get on TV and talk about<br>
gravity and cause gravity to change its behavior. <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:17 AM, Stephen Kraus <<a href="mailto:ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com" target="_blank">ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com</a>>wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Paul Krugman actually predicted the housing crisis. A few economists did<br>
actually. <br>
I am in no way saying the banking industry is perfect, after all, they<br>
purposely wanted the removal of the Glass-Steagall Act so that they could<br>
make trades and investments they knew were bad just to make a quick buck.<br>
Its why regulation and deregulation is a double edged sword, some<br>
regulations are heavy handed sure, but some were also put in place to<br>
protect people and prevent overzealous companies from causing intentional<br>
harm for the sake of profit. <br>
Randy, c'mon now. So I guess based on that logic, any and all experts<br>
should be dismissed as apparently they have not a clue? That is very<br>
backwards thinking. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone is wrong at some<br>
point in time, that is not the same as saying 'People studying systems like<br>
an economy as a science are wrong because they know nothing despite their<br>
credentials' <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 11:09 AM, Aaron welch <<a href="mailto:n2nightfall@gmail.com" target="_blank">n2nightfall@gmail.com</a>>wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Josh, the difficulty would increase to make finding blocks that much<br>
harder and the value that much higher. Imagine it like the first stock<br>
certificate for GE or Coke and how much those would be worth today after<br>
all the stock splits. <br>
-AW <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:47 AM, Joshua Estes <<a href="mailto:f1gm3nt@gmail.com" target="_blank">f1gm3nt@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=inventor%20committed%20to%20mental%20institution" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?<u></u>q=inventor%20committed%20to%<u></u>20mental%20institution</a> <br>
Even the smartest people are wrong some of the time. <br>
1: When you start out learning something say economics, you read<br>
everything you can on the subject. Eventually you can recall things based<br>
on previous work or come up with your own theories. At some point you<br>
believe in your idea so strongly that no one else is right. You die, you<br>
leave your legacy of books and papers behind.<br>
Goto 1; <br>
This process repeats itself over and over again. One of my biggest<br>
questions I have with bitcoins, which I haven't bothered to ask yet, is if<br>
each block contains transactions that are to be tracked. What happens when<br>
the last block is found? Does the system fail at that point? Bitcoins<br>
interest me because it makes me ask questions, other people's questions<br>
about bitcoins interest me as well. Nothing is set yet and this whole<br>
"experiment" could fail. <br>
<br>
- Joshua Estes <br>
@JoshuaEstes <br>
"If you live periods of your life in misery, when you remember back to<br>
those times, all you'll remember is the misery. The misery robs you of<br>
great memories you could otherwise be making." <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:27 AM, Stephen Kraus <<a href="mailto:ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com" target="_blank">ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com</a>>wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Randy, thank you, yes, deflation. <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:20 AM, Randy Yates <<a href="mailto:lpcustom@gmail.com" target="_blank">lpcustom@gmail.com</a>>wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
Isn't that rapid deflation? <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:18 AM, Stephen Kraus <<br>
<a href="mailto:ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com" target="_blank">ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
And Lynn, I think you are probably one of the smartest people here,<br>
so I find it hard to criticize your argument because they are usually<br>
fairly well thought out. <br>
My other big thing with Bitcoins is the rapid inflation. I mean look<br>
at that guy who paid for a pizza in bitcoins a couple years ago, the amount<br>
he paid for the pizza would now be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars! <br>
Even inflation from the early 1900s to now isn't nearly that bad. <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 10:10 AM, Stephen Kraus <<br>
<a href="mailto:ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com" target="_blank">ub3ratl4sf00@gmail.com</a>> wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
I criticize it because numerous economics professors criticize it. <br>
Look, I'm all for you doing Bitcoin, its your time and your<br>
processing power, not mine. <br>
But lets be perfectly honest: When a bunch of people who spend their<br>
entire lives studying economic systems inside and out say its a waste and<br>
it will lead nowhere, I'm of the mind to take their opinions into account.<br>
Especially when a Nobel Laureate is saying so. <br>
Right now, I've watched the Bitcoin trends from Mt. Gox and it is<br>
bouncy as hell, repeatedly bubbles then pops. It doesn't matter how often<br>
it spikes if it cannot stay consistent at a certain value for long or<br>
trends rapidly up and down. <br>
Just read this thread, ignore some of the goofiness and listen to<br>
some of the people in it. I find their opinions seem to reflect a lot of<br>
people I know in the economics fields:<br>
<a href="http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3543334&pagenumber=70#lastpost" target="_blank">http://forums.somethingawful.<u></u>com/showthread.php?threadid=<u></u>3543334&pagenumber=70#lastpost</a> <br>

<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Lynn Dixon <<a href="mailto:boodaddy@gmail.com" target="_blank">boodaddy@gmail.com</a>>wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
What is surprising to me is the vast number of people that will<br>
jump in and criticize the currency after doing no research on it. They<br>
will read a few articles on the web, or maybe even some horrid bitcointalk<br>
forum posts and simply make an assumption that is usually incorrect. <br>
The currency works, and works well. I have been mining for a while<br>
now, nearly two years, and I have personally made some impressive returns.<br>
I have also used the currency quite a bit. I have used it as a vehicle of<br>
exchange when dealing with foreign currency, I have used it as a vehicle of<br>
exchange for goods and services, and I even accept bitcoin as payment for<br>
my web hosting company. <br>
<br>
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:02 AM, Mike Robinson <<br>
<a href="mailto:miker@sundialservices.com" target="_blank">miker@sundialservices.com</a>> wrote: <br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
These are just my thoughts – but I see a bully pulpit here, and<br>
I'll be brief. <br>
If you wanted to fleece a bunch of nerds, how would you do it?<br>
Well, first of all, you'd promise them, one way or another, "easy money."<br>
In fact, knowing that many of them spend hours each day in<br>
gam-environments where guns never run out of ammo, you'd promise them "make<br>
your own money." An altogether synthetic currency system. "World Money,<br>
Release 2.0." <br>
You'd slow-roll the whole thing. Just toss the ball out onto the<br>
field almost unmentioned. Aside from the obvious need for plausible denial<br>
when the sheet hits the fan, you're playing hard to get, in the form of a<br>
cryptographic-based puzzle that can only be brute-forced, but that can be<br>
shown to be solvable. Add a few more promises – that the supply of this<br>
"money" will always be limited (never mind how) – and wait for the<br>
Powerball Effect to take hold of its own accord. A very large number of<br>
paper cards are thrown away near my driveway, because I live on a country<br>
road about a quarter-mile from a convenience store. I pick them up by the<br>
hundreds. <br>
Meanwhile, start selling supplies .. for real money. And books,<br>
of course. Every now and then, grab a quiet instant-success headline, say<br>
by selling a Ferrari (a Ford will NOT do ...) for this "new money." Then<br>
wait. <br>
It's a Crowd Psychology 101 play, people, and I just want to say<br>
.. there are some things in this ol' world that are truly ancient, and<br>
finding new and creative ways to rip off your fellow-man by leveraging his<br>
own gullibility is one of them. I don't want my Chattanooga virtual<br>
friends to be among those many that will eventually be hurt. <br>
#undef soapbox .. Thank you. <br>
– Mike Robinson<br>
<a href="tel:%28615%29%20268-3829" value="+16152683829" target="_blank">(615) 268-3829</a><br>
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