Just did Tiger Mountain today (Wednesday) and ran into logging on I think it's called NW Tiberline trail. I got to ride it but had to hike over trees toward the end of it. They now have a "closed trail" sign on it about a mile into it from the bottom. At this point there is a short bypass trail off to the right that leads down to the powerlines.There it's about a 1 1/2 mile road ride to where Tiberline comes back out to the road at the end of it. The logging will go on for about 3 weeks from what I learned from a guy named Steve who said he is charge on the on this area. :mad:

05-27-2009

Monte

Sounds like it's a working mountain. You should have seen Galbraith a couple years ago, many trails wiped out. Now they're back and have great views. Not something to get mad about, just thank your lucky stars the landowners let you ride there.

05-27-2009

r1de

Crazy. Thanks for posting the news; I updated the Evergreen wiki with your comments.

Not something to get mad about, just thank your lucky stars the landowners let you ride there.

Oh thank you State of Washington... :madman:

05-28-2009

scocra

Not again.

I can't help but get pissed about the fact that they are willing log the area but only allow seasonal access to a couple of bike trails. That is just freaking stupid and really shows how backasswards the DNR can be.:madmax: Anyways, I rode it today and the powerline trail, while still sucking, seems better than last year. I think they did some work on the road... And preston is in good shape. Next time out, I plan on riding it as an out an back going up the main road, down and then up preston and out.

05-29-2009

Skookum

Quote:

Originally Posted by scocra

I can't help but get pissed about the fact that they are willing log the area but only allow seasonal access to a couple of bike trails. That is just freaking stupid and really shows how backasswards the DNR can be.:madmax: Anyways, I rode it today and the powerline trail, while still sucking, seems better than last year. I think they did some work on the road... And preston is in good shape. Next time out, I plan on riding it as an out an back going up the main road, down and then up preston and out.

You have a point. How can DNR expect most mountain bikers to be excited about any crumb they throw our way, because that's what we've been fed for so many years. The crumbs. You would hope that a few bones get thrown our way once in a while, but it doesn't work that way out here.

So what do mountain bikers do? Maybe poach a few trails, never show to work parties?

And so the beat goes on, and the multitude of riders show, and enjoy what little we have. But think about it, how many people still ride out there. Just count the numbers of possible trail workers that could be tapped if only there was a carrot at the end of the stick. Instead it just seems we get the end of the stick in the form of a whack on the skull?

Is this or is this not the perception out there?

Can people like me and other bikey advocates wave the flag til we're blue in the face and try to get people to go out and do trail work, or sacrifice time in some way to help the cause. i think it's absolutely true that if we have land managers in this area that really TRULY embraced the idea of mountain bikers we would have people flocking to help, like in Bend where a spring fling mountain bike work party is expected to have well over 150 mt. bikers attend. That's one hundred and fifty for ONE work party...

What are they doing in Bend that makes them successful? Maybe it doesn't start with the mountain bikers mobilizing in an eternal uphill battle. Maybe it's wise choices of better projects, real trails, created by mountain biker input AT LEAST.

Anyways i kind of don't like it when people thank me while doing trail work. It's almost like they are assuming i'm doing it for them specifically. Well i am to a point, but it's really along the lines of i'm doing it for US.

For i still believe that this mt. biking community and area has limitless potential. We've proven it with our track record of playing these crummy hands and parlaying them into what we have today. We can have it much better, but let's not trick ourselve into thinking that going backwards, poaching, and sabotoging the process can really do much but keep things the same or get worse.

People getting involved will enable us to demand more, because you step back and look at it, demanding more opportunity makes more sense for everybody. Bend work party 150...

05-30-2009

snake_pliskin

I don't have anything against logging. Especially when they maintain a renewable resource. Which is what is happening on Tiger Mountain. It's a fact of life and the logging has been going on at this location for a very long time. Unfortunately the trail might have gotten a shave but the world will keep turning. Thank you for the tip, in case I head that way soon.

If I recall correctly it is the upper trail which has been the reason for closure to mountain biking because of water induced soil erosion during the rainy seasons. Not this section which is being described here. My guess would be the WTA used that as a reason to shut mountain bikers out because we "contribute to the problem". I am not sure if that is necessarily true but it is a strong suspicion which I have. Anyway - Yes, it is stupid. I don't think the land managers thought their decision through and perhaps there was nobody to represent the biking community when the decision was formed. These land managers could have just responded to the nagging from another user group. It's all said and done at the moment.

I can tell you this - If they would open that trail up year round I am certain that the cycling community would be willing to be a part of management and respond to reasonable requests to do trail maintenance. Large sections of trails do just fine without a lot of maintenace where they do not cross or travel along drainages. This is the earth. Break it down and it wil rebuild itself in time anyway. The impact of a few thousand bicycle rides is not even worth getting political over when we have people paving new Wal-Mart parking lots all over the nation. Unfortunately someone else already forced that hand.

05-30-2009

nasai

This would be another reason why Tiger isn't a destination of any kind to me anymore. I'll be lucky to get up there by next year, and I live 4 miles away. There are just so many more bangs for the buck elsewhere, and just as local.

To me, the only way Tiger will ever be a destination (and it'll never happen) would be if it became our own Whistler, but Stevens will beat 'em to that, and soon.... hopefully. :)

05-30-2009

snake_pliskin

Whistler and Stevens Pass are under a lot of snow during the winter and early spring. They will never be year round destinations for biking unless you have spiked tires for snow. The potential appeal of Tiger Mountain is the lower elevation, large amount of land and very little snow acumulation. That's not even touching proximity to a lot of potential users and being free.

Stevens Pass and Whistler are different beasts. Nothing wrong with them. They are basically profitable biking businesses. The logging operation is also a profitable business. It is just not for bikers. ;)

05-30-2009

Skookum

Quote:

Originally Posted by snake_pliskin

I don't have anything against logging. Especially when they maintain a renewable resource. Which is what is happening on Tiger Mountain. It's a fact of life and the logging has been going on at this location for a very long time. Unfortunately the trail might have gotten a shave but the world will keep turning. Thank you for the tip, in case I head that way soon.

i don't have anything against the logging too. It's DNR if you ride Cap, Green Mountain, it's part of the deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snake_pliskin

If I recall correctly it is the upper trail which has been the reason for closure to mountain biking because of water induced soil erosion during the rainy seasons. Not this section which is being described here. My guess would be the WTA used that as a reason to shut mountain bikers out because we "contribute to the problem". I am not sure if that is necessarily true but it is a strong suspicion which I have. Anyway - Yes, it is stupid. I don't think the land managers thought their decision through and perhaps there was nobody to represent the biking community when the decision was formed. These land managers could have just responded to the nagging from another user group. It's all said and done at the moment.

i don't think WTA has much to do with that decision, i could be wrong, but i don't think that's something we should gripe about with them.

Quote:

Originally Posted by snake_pliskin

I can tell you this - If they would open that trail up year round I am certain that the cycling community would be willing to be a part of management and respond to reasonable requests to do trail maintenance. Large sections of trails do just fine without a lot of maintenace where they do not cross or travel along drainages. This is the earth. Break it down and it wil rebuild itself in time anyway. The impact of a few thousand bicycle rides is not even worth getting political over when we have people paving new Wal-Mart parking lots all over the nation. Unfortunately someone else already forced that hand.

You are correct for the most part. Bikes do push organics building and clogging up in reverse grades and such, but much of the trail has been armored to a point where even sloppy riders aren't impacting the trail as much as say 10 years ago, for sure. So with all that work patching all the "bike" problem areas, now it's primarily the water on the trail doing pretty much all the damage, whether bikes are there or not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by nasai

This would be another reason why Tiger isn't a destination of any kind to me anymore. I'll be lucky to get up there by next year, and I live 4 miles away. There are just so many more bangs for the buck elsewhere, and just as local.

To me, the only way Tiger will ever be a destination (and it'll never happen) would be if it became our own Whistler, but Stevens will beat 'em to that, and soon.... hopefully. :)

i don't think anyone is saying Tiger is going to be a "destination" trail like Whistler or Bend. But a few weekends back when i rode there Saturday then did trail work Sunday, i saw well over 100 riders that weekend.

So for that weekend it was a destination for those 100 people...

And yah Stevens and Whistler is pay to play, there is a difference in many ways.

i think my comments go beyond Tiger Mountain, and i'm talking about broad sweeping sentiment of what we face in the area. Not that things aren't changing obviously but still...

05-30-2009

nasai

Gosh, didn't mean to open a can of worms... just sayin'. I personally think Tiger could be a great place, but we should have rights to larger set of trails, or be given the opportunity to build new ones. What's the hurt in that?

After last years DNR meeting, I admit I hoped we'd see some greater immediate results, but I think it takes a lot of time. Look at the ultimately great ride Paradise Valley became. Sure, it's pretty much only XC, but there are user specific trails there, and we have the opportunity to build more. I hope other systems, as well as entities, can see the power in a well managed multi user trail system/area.

05-30-2009

Skookum

Quote:

Originally Posted by nasai

Gosh, didn't mean to open a can of worms... just sayin'.

nobody here is really arguing, i think we're all "just sayin".:)

05-31-2009

zdfg

Evergreen should try and work with the NMA more. There are common interests even if the two aren't necessarily compatible. At least it demonstrates some solidarity.

05-31-2009

Borneo

I can't disagree with working with the NMA. Some of my favorite trails out there are ORV funded. Problem is the club has always been way too PC with other user groups. Never really making any alliance whether it's the jeepers, motos, horses, or hikers...
First it was meekly asking to get to the table to just get a word in while the Issy Alps folks just slammed us. But, now local mountain biking is really gaining respect and some traction. The other user groups are seeing the growing strength and asking for mountain bikers to align with them. And, that's a good thing because we can focus on what works for us first and if it helps the NMA or the BCH along the way, so be it.

But, Tiger and advocacy is just one big bottomless pit. Always has been. Huge kudos to Brian for sticking it out up there. I couldn't do it. Tiger is where all the shops send the out of towners and where one can find a smack full lot more often than not. Why? I dunno. The place is loved to death and it's pretty depressing to ride there. I imagine as more and more opportunities arise, less and less effort will go to Tiger if the measly allotment we have legal access to continues.

Skooks, even veiled "Thanks" is better than a surly look indicating you and your McLeod were in the way of someone's self absorbed shredfest.

05-31-2009

Skookum

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borneo

I can't disagree with working with the NMA. Some of my favorite trails out there are ORV funded. Problem is the club has always been way too PC with other user groups. Never really making any alliance whether it's the jeepers, motos, horses, or hikers...

Personally i think that each individual project or issue would determine if an "alliance" is conducive to the goals of mountain bikers.
i belong to a mountain bike group that represents mountain biker agenda, not quad agenda, not horsey nor hiker agenda, so blanket alliances make no sense to me in this sense.

As far as who you give your dough to, i would say as an individual everyone can make choices who they support with time or money.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borneo

But, Tiger and advocacy is just one big bottomless pit. Always has been. Huge kudos to Brian for sticking it out up there. I couldn't do it.

Tiger is not a bottomless pit, but it is and has been much effort for not much return other than the ability to "preserve access", to have a place to ride near town.

Duthie Hill is probably the first and only project thrown our way where we have a real nice piece of area to work with. No other project or areas exist that don't involve hassle or will provide sub-par results but demand maximum effort.

Where is our Bend where the Forest Service has a huge plot of land and provides a template for mt. bikers to build absolutely quality singletrack with no-strings.

My point is, land managers for the most part be it Forest Service, State Parks, DNR, have not ever given mountain bike advocacy a true chance to get everyone in line. The history of getting refused access at every turn, the tireless efforts to get very little, we're left with a reality of dispersed riders who are indifferent. And with that we as ambassadors trying to do things the right way, get very little traction with the general rider.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Borneo

I imagine as more and more opportunities arise, less and less effort will go to Tiger if the measly allotment we have legal access to continues.

Maybe so...
But if my premise is accurate numbers of riders willing to participate would increase across the board, so you might not really see a dramatic dropoff. Not like that would be any change than currently as volunteer numbers average low.

Again the talk of Tiger specifically is interesting. IF they offer an expansion of mt. biking related recreation there i think it would be a wonderful thing. But it wouldn't surprise me in the least if they would want us to sacrifice in a way that would completely screw up the process. Here in Seattle they never make it easy, because that would just make too much sense...