The idea that the Vikings were all HG I is simply nonsense. R1b is the largest haplogroup in Denmark, and though outnumbered by HG I in Norway and Sweden, it still represents about a quarter or a fifth of the population in those countries. A study of Ydna in Swden a few yaers ago (I started a thread on the subject on this forum) showed that R1b outnumbers HG I in two of the seven Swedish provinces sampled. Although there are a few idiots who argue that all of R1b is Scandinavia is the result of Viking slaves, there is no reason to believe that the haplogroup composition in Scandinavia today is radically different from a thousand years ago.

Actually, I believe R1b1b2 is about equal to I and R1a in Norway, each one accounting for about a third of the male population. Sweden is the y-hap I stronghold.

I get the feeling that R1a was singled out as an identifying marker of Viking presence rather than being 'the' Viking marker, if R1a is high than expected ergo there must have been Vikings in the area.

I get the feeling that R1a was singled out as an identifying marker of Viking presence rather than being 'the' Viking marker, if R1a is high than expected ergo there must have been Vikings in the area.

Yes, most men in Scandinavia, at least today, are not R1a, although it has a significant presence. I think it's value is that it is diagnostic for detecting where Scandinavians expanded to since it is not prominent across Western Europe.

However, I think there should be caution in assuming that 1) just because someone is R1a, he is a descendant of a Viking or that 2) Vikings were only R1a. #2 definitely isn't true, there certainly Hg I Vikings and probably R1b1b2 Vikings as well, perhaps some Hg N. #1 may not be true because of possible early expansions of R1a.

R1a is scattered thinly across France and it was found in the Corded Ware culture in Germany, near the Czech Republic in ancient DNA - long before the Vikings. R1a could have also spread through Western Europe in a early or mid Neolithic expansion.

"Separating the post-Glacial coancestry of European and Asian Y chromosomes within haplogroup R1a" by Underhill et al.

Quote from: Underhill

Haplogroup R1a1a7-M458 diversity and frequency are highest in river basins known to be associated with several early and late Neolithic cultures... Beyond its spread in the Central European river basins, the LBK extended around the northern Carpathians into the steppe zone of Ukraine and participated in the establishment of the Cris¸culture.

It would be neat if they would just routinely start trying to get some y-dna and mtDNA (at least) from the remains uncovered at archaeological digs. It should just be standard operating procedure.

That and isotope testing telling us where they came from, ( i think carbon dating is done fairly routinely) it makes sense to do it and set up a data base. it must be too expensive is the only reason i can think of for it not being done already.

There is Z255 in Norway, by way of the ones who are L159.2+If indeed all R-L159 are Z255+

I don't know if there are any L144+ people in Norway. Perhaps I'll have a look around some projects later.

NealtheRed,We know that we have L159.2+ non-Irish Sea Modal and the L159.2- 464X=2c2g Irish Sea people. That seems to be unlikely, hence there is a concern about the stability of L159.2.

Given that and the fact I'm aggressive on SNP testing, I think all of the types of L159.2+ people should consider testing for Z255, particularly the non-Irish Sea modal ones and ones that are 464X=3c1g. The L159.2- Irish Sea people should test for Z255 as well.

There is Z255 in Norway, by way of the ones who are L159.2+If indeed all R-L159 are Z255+

I don't know if there are any L144+ people in Norway. Perhaps I'll have a look around some projects later.

NealtheRed,We know that we have L159.2+ non-Irish Sea Modal and the L159.2- 464X=2c2g Irish Sea people. That seems to be unlikely, hence there is a concern about the stability of L159.2.

Given that and the fact I'm aggressive on SNP testing, I think all of the types of L159.2+ people should consider testing for Z255, particularly the non-Irish Sea modal ones and ones that are 464X=3c1g. The L159.2- Irish Sea people should test for Z255 as well.

Maybe Z255 will help clarify this.

I know it is too early since we need Z255 results for our Irish Sea L159.2- men, but I think Z255 has the potential to rectify the differences between those who are L159.2+ and those who are negative.

Don't get me wrong, I think there are some L159.2+ results that could be lab errors (kit #189806 in the L159.2 Project is one), but the majority of the Irish Sea L159.2- folks do have unique differences in their STRs from L159.2+/CCGG men. We still think they branched off just before the L159.2 mutation manifested itself.

But I agree. Our goal is to get these Irish Sea L159.2- men to test for Z255 to connect the dots. Considering L144 is directly downstream as well, I wonder how extensive Z255 is?

The R-L21 Plus Project has picked up a new Danish member. Interestingly, his most distant known y-dna ancestor had the surname Matrois. I'm no expert on Danish surnames, but that one looks French to me. It's kit 210257, from Nakskov, Denmark, on the island of Nykøbing.