this is the 6th in a series of threads I'll make on this forum, basically ripping off the excellent Classic Forum boxing poster Boxed Ears, who has a series in the Classic called 'Very Good Or Great', where he asks regulars whether they consider some fighters to merit the description 'great' fighters, or whether they are merely 'very good'.

MMA Volume 1 was Sean Sherk, see thread:

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MMA Volume 2 was Vitor Belfort, see thread:

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MMA Volume 3 was Ricardo Arona, see thread:

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MMA Volume 4 was Rich Franklin, see thread:

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MMA Volume 5 was Tito Ortiz, see thread:

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The choice this time is Frank Shamrock.

Some relevant info about Frank:

- Frank won the interim King Of Pancrase Championship, then became the first UFC light-heavyweight champion, making four winning title defences, later won the WEC light-heavyweight title, and the Strikeforce middleweight crown.

- Frank lost ten times. In 1990s Pancrase, he lost to Bas Rutten twice, Manabu Yamada, Masakatsu Funaki, Yuki Kondo and Kiuma Kunioku, then to John Luber in the 'Superbrawl' promotion. Years later as Frank neared the end of his career he was disqualified against Renzo Gracie, and then stopped by both Cung Le and Nick Diaz.

- The most important factor is of course resume, the guys Frank has beaten. Make your assessment of this list:

I'm inclined to pick great because Frank fought in the infant era of MMA and yet he had a style that was close to the modern form of fighting. What makes it a hard call for me, however, are the losses to less-than-stellar competition and the lack of big names on his resume. Rutten is probably his best win closely followed by Tito but Tito, as I stated before, is highly overrated. Also, Bas beat Frank more than Frank beat Bas so that kind of gets thrown out, as well.

I'm going to pick great because he did hold UFC hardware, he did revolutionize cross-training, and he did beat the next generation's superstar in Tito even if he was overrated. What sells me on great is the simple fact that this dude debuted a year after UFC 1 and he looks and fights nothing like the dudes that were rocking out at that show in mullets and parachute pants doing rolling karate kicks and the like.

It's an interesting question how he would do today. I think if you combined his Pre-Retirement ground game (or atleast, he was more willing to go to the ground, trying to out strike Cung Li for example) with his post retirement striking he'd be one of the best in the world

Probably has difficulty with the top class wrestlers and strikers at the 185-205 weight range, but he'd have more options as to where he's comfortable taking the fight

I wonder how he would do in the modern MMA era? Im guessing he would do very well if he was back in his best years.

Watching Frank make Tito Ortiz his ***** will always make me happy. Thank you for that Frank

HAte to say it but Tito was making him his ***** before pulling out that sub. And that was a very green Tito.

Frank was a great fighter. The way he disposed of Zinoviev and Jackson were stuff og legends. He was the prototypical MMA guy who was competent at everything. As of now he would be remembered as very good. 10 years from now he would be remembered as good. 25 years from now, people might chuckle watching some of his fights.

Anyone else finding it hard to put some of these fighters into greats or very good? For the era they were about in they were clearly great but compared to now most of them would be beaten by a fair few easily.

Anyone else finding it hard to put some of these fighters into greats or very good? For the era they were about in they were clearly great but compared to now most of them would be beaten by a fair few easily.

Yup. This was the first one I've labeled great so far because he held a major title and he was a protoype of the modern fighter even as far back as '94, a year removed from mullets and Royce Gracie.

Anyone else finding it hard to put some of these fighters into greats or very good? For the era they were about in they were clearly great but compared to now most of them would be beaten by a fair few easily.