POLL: CCW (Are you packing heat yet?)

Kansas just passed Concealed Carry by overridding the Governor's (D) veto. That was a watershed moment in Kansas as they have had a Republican Governor veto it as well. But the tide seems to be that CCW laws are lining up like the red vs. blue states

Your thoughts...

Last edited by el Guapo; 11 Apr 2006 at 11:54 PM.

el Guapo is a former 20 year +/- urban planner (just like you) who thought becoming an attorney was a good life choice.

I think it's terrible. Have you ever seen otehrwise upstanding citizens freak out over small things??? Somebody in a business suit freaked out the other day just because I was trying to merge on the freeway. shouting, blaring the horn, flashing headlights finger, etc. If he had a gun I'm sure he would have shot me. People can not be trusted - under todays stressful living environment people with guns will freak out and kill people.

I suppose I should add that I live in a state that has the right to concealed carry and I haven't been shot yet.

A classic quote from the Simpons seems appropriate Moe says: "It's like my pa used to say -sooner or later, everybody gets shot"

I think it's terrible. Have you ever seen otehrwise upstanding citizens freak out over small things??? Somebody in a business suit freaked out the other day just because I was trying to merge on the freeway. shouting, blaring the horn, flashing headlights finger, etc. If he had a gun I'm sure he would have shot me. People can not be trusted - under todays stressful living environment people with guns will freak out and kill people.

I'm with you on this one. I personally don't own a gun and never will because I don't feel it's necessary. I'm not for a complete and total ban on guns, but I believe there are a lot more people out there that have no business having a gun or access to one than there are people who have a valid reason to have one or are responsible enough to possess and manage one.

"He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well. Is that not what it means to know me?"Jeremiah 22:16

Kansas just passed Concealed Carry by overridding the Governor's (D) veto. That was a watershed moment in Kansas as they have had a Republican Governor veto it as well. But the tide seems to be that CCW laws are lining up like the red vs. blue states

Your thoughts...

I don't know what you're talking about.. there are only three states left in the entire country that don't permit some form of conceal/carry

Wisconsin (vetoed with unsuccessful override attempt the last few years)
Illinois (have not heard anything, but figure the suburbs will eventually make this an issue)
Nebraska (I'm as shocked as you)

All the 'liberal strongholds' (WA, OR, CA, MA, NY) have conceal-carry laws and many have had it for some time.

I'm with you on this one. I personally don't own a gun and never will because I don't feel it's necessary. I'm not for a complete and total ban on guns, but I believe there are a lot more people out there that have no business having a gun or access to one than there are people who have a valid reason to have one or are responsible enough to possess and manage one.

I am kind of on the fence on this issue, but agree with what you said. On one hand, I feel it is a constitutional right, but on the other hand, does someone really need it while grocery shopping?

My husband has a couple shotguns (can't shoot with rifles in this county) for hunting, but that is it. We are friends with a lot of cops and I don't think they carry their guns with them most of the time (of course, when we are with them we are at the bar, so I don't think they can have them there anyway).

I would like to be able to shoot a gun, and go to the range - that sounds fun. But I don't really want them in my house.

I'm of the opinion that guns oughtta be treated like prescription drugs - useful tools in the hands of the knowlegable and competent, but great potential for abuse exists for lots of idiots and yayhoos out there. That said, I actually like the idea of concealed weapons permits, as it expands the implied deterrent (you never know whether or not someone's packing) without increasing the number of firearms floating around.

People will miss that it once meant something to be Southern or Midwestern. It doesn't mean much now, except for the climate. The question, “Where are you from?” doesn't lead to anything odd or interesting. They live somewhere near a Gap store, and what else do you need to know? - Garrison Keillor

I am kind of on the fence on this issue, but agree with what you said. On one hand, I feel it is a constitutional right, but on the other hand, does someone really need it while grocery shopping?

Concealed carry is a perversion of the whole constitutional right issue. The constitution may say that you can have a gun, but it certainly doesn't grant the right to conceal carry that gun. Conceal carry is not a constitutional right, it is simply a legislative right granted by the soveriegn right of the state(s).

I think concealed carry is unnecessary and probably (I haven't fully evaluated the issue) should not be allowed due to the high volume of stupid and crazy people on both sides of the political divide (aka extermists, the careless, etc.)

I'm all for hunter's rights, but I think that CCW's are flat out wrong and cowardly. I want to be able to see someone walking down the street with their gun in plain view, that way, I know to get the hell out of there!

I see little use for anyone but criminals and police to have handguns.

I added mine to the poll. I used to have one but it has been expired for years. In Iowa it is up to the County Sheriff if you get one or not. It's easier in rural counties than themore urban ones.

“As soon as public service ceases to be the chief business of the citizens, and they would rather serve with their money than with their persons, the State is not far from its fall”
Jean-Jacques Rousseau

I don't believe that a single state has noticed any change in crime rates--either way--since passing a c/c law. So I guess if it doesn't change anything, why even bother? All it means is extra work (processing permits) for law enforcement units already being pinched by budget cuts.

Pointless, completely pointless.

Another point is that (my suspicion tells me this) most of the permits are issued in places where crime rates are low, like rural areas or outer-ring suburbs. The people who live in the high-risk parts of the city are street-smart enough that they don't need a gun (or they carry illegally.)

Concealed carry is a perversion of the whole constitutional right issue. The constitution may say that you can have a gun, but it certainly doesn't grant the right to conceal carry that gun. Conceal carry is not a constitutional right, it is simply a legislative right granted by the soveriegn right of the state(s).

I guess I meant that it is more of a right to have guns, not necessarily conceal them.

I own guns. On certain ocassions I have one with me or on me (camping in a remote area, areas where the critters are large and carnivous, in the car when I am on a trip) Other than dispatching a few water mocassins on the Tangiphoa River I have never really needed it or even came close to really needing it.

I am not really in favor of people carrying guns on their person on a regular basis. Especially not concealed weapons. It is too tempting to go postal. Fenderbenders turn into fire fights. The neighbor's dog poops on your lawn and you take him and some neighbors out, too. Sure the vast majority of people would be good and responsible citizens. But a few would not and the resulting carnage is not worth the meager benefits. Montana, one of the last vestiges of the Old West, has a pretty low homicide rate, much lower than a city of comparable population.

Even in the Wild and Wooly days of the Old West, one of the first ordinances a town enacted was unusually a no guns in town law. Wyatt Earp insisted on it. The Gunfight at the OK Corral began as an effort to disarm the Clantons and MCLaurys.

Montana has a concealed weapons permit process. You have to get a permit from the County Sheriff. One guy got turned down and now he is running for sheriff because the sheriff is too "liberal."

If your profession or your situation warrants a concealed weapons permit, temporarily or permanently, then go through the proper channels and background check. If you get one, fine and dandy. If you don't, then you probably shouldn't have a concelaed weapon in the first place.

Last edited by otterpop; 12 Apr 2006 at 11:22 AM.

"I am very good at reading women, but I get into trouble for using the Braille method."

[RANT]This is one reason why Illinois or Chicago may not be the best state and city in the world.

I expect Nebraska's to be overturned sometime as well. Thus making IL and WI the only places where you can't carry whatsoever.

Why is the crime so high in Chicago? Hmm...maybe because people can't even own a handgun in that city to ward off home-intruders, assailants, etc.

Even if Judy Baar Topinka (R) is elected governor this year, things probably won't change due to the Daley Machine, Topinka's moderate stance on gun issues, and the slim chance the Republicans have in winning back it's state congress.

Right now, I guess what's more important is to fight the .50 caliber ban and all these other restrictions that Blagojevich and the liberal machine are trying to pass.

But if the go so far as to try and pass a law banning all handguns in the state, I am moving south.[/RANT]

EG, why get me started....

As if we need to give unfounded paranoia, suspicion and anger another inappropriate way to vent. IMO, anyone who carries a gun for reasons other than hunting, military action or law enforcement is a complete ignoramous or mentally troubled and is probably either going to hurt themselves, someone close to them or someone who doesn't deserve it.

[RANT]...Why is the crime so high in Chicago? Hmm...maybe because people can't even own a handgun in that city to ward off home-intruders, assailants, etc....
[/RANT]

I really, really really doubt that a lack of handguns is the root of Chicago's problems.

[broad-brush]I'm waiting to see the backlash from the first high-profile case when a c/c-bearing white man shoots and kills a minority (citizen/non-citizen) who was 'perceived to be threatening' by the shooter.

When you're scared and white, everyone becomes threatening. This is why guns should not be allowed.[/broad-brush]

I really, really really doubt that a lack of handguns is the root of Chicago's problems.

[broad-brush]I'm waiting to see the backlash from the first high-profile case when a c/c-bearing white man shoots and kills a minority (citizen/non-citizen) who was 'perceived to be threatening' by the shooter.

When you're scared and white, everyone becomes threatening. This is why guns should not be allowed.[/broad-brush]

Guns kill criminals and guns save innocent lives. There's a reason why the NRA magazine, American Rifleman, can publish 10 stories an issue of citizens who fended off criminals at their home, workplace, etc.

Your insane theory that every white person will kill anyone who looks threatening is, for the most part, unfounded.

Concealed carry appears to be working out fine in 47 other states. I don't see why it wouldn't work in IL.

The only backlash that will happen is if the government tries to confiscate citizens' weapons.

guns also save criminals' lives and kill innocent lives. Where do you draw the line? I say take the guns out of the equation and you don't have to worry about who's criminal and who's innocent.

Our country's infatuation with self-protection won't stop here, of course. But if I'm going to be assailed, I'd much rather get clubbed with a baseball bat and at least have a chance of survival. Guns are far more lethal than knives, clubs, etc. That we want to legalize the most lethal form of weapon in the name of self-defense just seems counterintuitive. Why do you need to kill if all you want to do is protect yourself?

This is my closure. After this, I'll take it to PM.

PS, note the [broad-brush] tags. I know I was generalizing. However, grew up in a very white, very scared town near a large city and I KNOW that there are a lot of people there (if I had to put a number on it, I'd say 20-25%) who are scared of anyone who looks different. Maybe the other 80% aren't scared. But the other 80% probably won't apply for a concealed weapon permit, either.

I'm all in favor of CCW laws. Law-abiding citizens should be able to protect themselves if *they* feel they have then need.

The courts routinely uphold the fact that the police have no obligation to protect an individual. If someone is getting stalked, called the cops, cops never come, stalker kills stalkee, too bad, it's not their problem.

I also am a firm believer that if criminals are concerned about armed citizens, they'll be less likely to commit the crimes. Frankly, CCW is just another insurance policy - you hope you never have to use it, but thank god you have it if it ever comes up.

Kansas just passed Concealed Carry by overridding the Governor's (D) veto. That was a watershed moment in Kansas as they have had a Republican Governor veto it as well. But the tide seems to be that CCW laws are lining up like the red vs. blue states

Your thoughts...

I think we should all carry openly like the old West. My favorite western is "The Outlaw Josie Wells", it would be cool to dress like Clint Eastwood.

A study in Texas showed that robberies were down 15% after the CCW was adopted. Of course the police won’t admit to it in fear of having funding cut.

I am going to speculate that robberies fluctuate by at least that much per year anyways.

But hey- if you think it will make you cool and tough and a real man to carry a concealed weapon than go for it.

In the last 6 months there have been two instances that I can remember in my City where someone had an illegal gun and was causing trouble. In one instance the guy was trying to rob a place and a citizen had a concealed weapon permit so he pulled his gun out and ended up getting shot and he died.

In the other instance a lunatic decided to shoot up the mall. Only one person got seriously wounded and that person was the guy who had a concealed weapon permit and pulled it out to confront the dude.

It sort of seems to me that the people who really feel the need to have big guns and play with their guns and carry them all the time are trying to make up for something.

Nebraska passed its concealed carry law on March 30, with a vote of 33-12-4 (Unicameral, note as many legislators), and the Gov'ner signed it into law April 5. It is unique in that there is a provision that cities can opt out and prohibit concealed carry. Lincoln is thinking about it (5 of 6 legislators from Lincoln opposed the bill), and Omaha already had a law prohibiting concealed carry.

Originally posted by mendelman
I think concealed carry is unnecessary and probably (I haven't fully evaluated the issue) should not be allowed due to the high volume of stupid and crazy people on both sides of the political divide (aka extermists, the careless, etc.)

Originally posted by imaplanner
In the last 6 months there have been two instances that I can remember in my City where someone had an illegal gun and was causing trouble. In one instance the guy was trying to rob a place and a citizen had a concealed weapon permit so he pulled his gun out and ended up getting shot and he died.

In the other instance a lunatic decided to shoot up the mall. Only one person got seriously wounded and that person was the guy who had a concealed weapon permit and pulled it out to confront the dude.

I have to agree with mendelman, having not fully thought through the issue myself, although imaplanner points out one aspect that I think will happen all too often.