I see a fast, quick twitch guy who can change directions with slight jukes. Also has really great hands. He’s a guy who’s going to get 120 yards a game and you’d never notice

His main flaw is that the game is too fast for him. Unfortunately, we live in a microscopic, over reactionary hot take media culture that writes players off early and then eats crow when no one listens to them. Many times on this forum and elsewhere I’ve seen people flat out give up on players only to play dumb later. Stop with the Hot Take bullshit and just give a young player time to grow

ImTheScientist wrote:Facts are Penny had the best YPC today amongst the group and most his carries were in clear running situations. He also lead the RB group in rec yards.

Unfortunately the fan base and media isn’t going to give him a fair chance. We are lucky Russell survived his first half a year because I remember media and fans were similarly negative.

Penny had a couple nice moments today. But he's still way behind Carson. When people start taking the conversation in that direction, it gets ridiculous.

Why have you never given Carson any credit?

If you swapped the names/stat lines and Carson had Penny’s stat line and useage the fans and media would throw a fit this week. I should probably know better than to expect fair treatment for all players. It’s obvious when a group has it out for someone.

ImTheScientist wrote:Facts are Penny had the best YPC today amongst the group and most his carries were in clear running situations. He also lead the RB group in rec yards.

Unfortunately the fan base and media isn’t going to give him a fair chance. We are lucky Russell survived his first half a year because I remember media and fans were similarly negative.

Penny had a couple nice moments today. But he's still way behind Carson. When people start taking the conversation in that direction, it gets ridiculous.

Why have you never given Carson any credit?

If you swapped the names/stat lines and Carson had Penny’s stat line and useage the fans and media would throw a fit this week. I should probably know better than to expect fair treatment for all players. It’s obvious when a group has it out for someone.

I've defended Penny on here, and I like his development and the way he was mixed into the offense today.

But it's not just about stats; it's about the way they play. Carson had several big runs that were negated by penalty, and the points he helped put up allowed the team to rest him in garbage time. Carson is clearly running the ball better. He runs with more decisiveness, breaks tackles, and finishes runs with power.

Yet, you stubbornly belittle Carson as "just a guy." When will you admit you are wrong?

The problem, I suspect that many fans have with Penny is that he didn’t have 150 yards rushing and 3TDs in the first game of the season. First impressions I guess. He had the most yards from scrimmage today behind ADB. He already has the looks of being a more complete back than Carson. In more complete, I mean the ability to run and catch the ball. Carson is a good strong runner but Davis is the one in on 3rd downs and is the one that they will throw to.

I am liking this debate, a lot!! We are issues on having three productive RBs, what a nice problem to have?? This time last years, anyone remember this time last year? We were debating how many pregame burgers our back had.

ImTheScientist wrote:If 11 touches for 70 yards doesn’t get you more time what will.

Thought Penny had 9 carries for 43 yards, avg 4.8 ypc this afternoon?

He had two additional receptions. 11 touches for 70 yards. By far the leader in the RB room today.

He got all of his rushing yardage in garbage time when the defense was worn out, and the Raiders had essentially given up. He had giant holes to run through as well. Carson and Davis got all of the hard yardage, even on his big runs he looked bad. He turned what should have been 20 yards into 5 on one occasion. He busted through the line, and we had blocks at the second level set up. The defender got one hand on him and brought Penny down. This is a reoccurring theme with Penny.

When I look at the guy I see a mediocre running back. He has good hands, yes but you don't draft third down backs with first round picks. Penny's issue is he can't make the first guy miss, or run through contact in the NFL. If a running back is unable to do that consistently then that running back really isn't a net positive. Penny's vision isn't particularly good at the NFL either. Lots of dancing, and hesitation before he commits to his hole.

I've said it once, and I'll say it again. Penny is just another guy, and is going to bust on the Seahawks and any other team that happens to have the misfortune of having him on the roster. People keep saying "but he had the highest YPC". That is what happens when you run in garbage time, that is generally where many backs get their largest swaths of yardage. We pounded the Raiders defensive line all game, and we had a vast time of possession advantage. The hard yardage was earned by Carson and Davis, and they were the ones that wore down the Raiders defense, and pulverized them. Penny got to run in the easiest stage of the game, against a team that had given up.

By far the best RB is too far. He played well, but I didn't see anything special YET from Penny, whereas Carson was breaking tackles left, right, and center and Mike Davis has pretty good lateral agility. Penny doesn't show off any high tier traits - he doesn't pop off the screen.

If you're going to use YPC, which is a very flawed metric, to say Penny is by far better then you're only looking at one game. Penny has 3.6 YPC thusfar this season and Chris Carson has 4.4 YPC. By your logic Penny has been over half a yard worse per carry this season compared to Carson.

People saying those concerned about Penny expect 100+ Yards and 2 TDs in his debut or per game are arguing against a strawman. Personally, I'd expect him to either be the starter or at worst the second string RB, given he's a second round pick and he's the third string RB. He also hasn't shown to be clearly superior to Carson or Davis on film. If the talent disparity was as clear as Scientist was saying, the vast majority of us would be clamoring for Penny to get more time.

Yep. Don't care what his stat line is in garbage time when he's going down at first contact. Every single run I say to myself Carson, Davis, or Christine Michael would have gotten at least 2 more and sometimes many more.

hawk45 wrote:Yep. Don't care what his stat line is in garbage time when he's going down at first contact. Every single run I say to myself Carson, Davis, or Christine Michael would have gotten at least 2 more and sometimes many more.

He may get good but he's JAG now.

Christine Michael? Puleeeze! I put Michael in the Procise camp as far as effectiveness.

You say he got his yards in garbage time, 7 minutes in the game is not garbage in the NFL, many teams have come back with 7 minutes left. Being able to run hard and never let them have the ball was important, we could not do that last year to save ourselves. Penny doing it says a lot as far as giving him a chance to seal the deal and get experience.

ImTheScientist wrote:Facts are Penny had the best YPC today amongst the group and most his carries were in clear running situations. He also lead the RB group in rec yards.

Unfortunately the fan base and media isn’t going to give him a fair chance. We are lucky Russell survived his first half a year because I remember media and fans were similarly negative.

Penny had a couple nice moments today. But he's still way behind Carson. When people start taking the conversation in that direction, it gets ridiculous.

Why have you never given Carson any credit?

If you swapped the names/stat lines and Carson had Penny’s stat line and useage the fans and media would throw a fit this week. I should probably know better than to expect fair treatment for all players. It’s obvious when a group has it out for someone.

You never answered the question. It appears to the rest of us that you have it out for Carson.

What a pointless and foolish argument. They are both good. Penny is getting more touches now. I think Carson's style is a little more aggressive, but hey, that may lead to more injuries. If so, Penny will be right there to take his place. Win/win.

Folks and their agendas. A lot of it comes from their “pet picks” not being chosen by Seattle.

And unrealistic/outrageous expectations of all first-round draft picks.

I find it odd that some posters are arrogant enough to believe they can set the performance benchmark for all first-round picks, and believe everyone else should line up and agree with them.

Penny was an important and helpful part of a great team effort today. I loved seeing him getting more yards, and contribution to the overall success of this win. It'll be fun watching him continue to improve and get up to speed with this offense.

hawk45 wrote:Yep. Don't care what his stat line is in garbage time when he's going down at first contact. Every single run I say to myself Carson, Davis, or Christine Michael would have gotten at least 2 more and sometimes many more.

He may get good but he's JAG now.

It's not garbage time for running backs - being able to run the ball well enough to take nearly 8 minutes off the clock to close the game is not easy to do - the defense knows it's coming, they stack the box and he still makes tough yards. The 4th quarter is where Lynch demonstrated the difference between a "good" running back and a "great" running back, because he was still able to churn out the yards when it was at its toughest.

In any case, in the last 4 games (since reaffiriming their commitment to the running game) Seattle has averaged 157 rushing yards per game - that would be tops if continued for the entire season. Is it any wonder a rookie RB is finding it hard to break into that statline?

What I saw today was Carson needing 3-4 tacklers to take him down. I saw Penny do some nice runs as well, and was heartened that he's improving, but I didn't see the drag-the pile sort of running that Carson does, and Lynch did.

What matters most in this offense is the ability to suck in defenders. If the safeties have to move up because the linebackers need help taking Carson down, then the deep routes are open for Wilson. If the linebackers are forced to respect the play fake, then they can't just spy Wilson all day.

I'll also say there was some good interior blocking happening as well. Carson was often able to get to the second level through the middle, which is fantastic. I lived seeing us run up the gut on 3rd-and-3 and make a first down. That's Pete Carroll football.

Running off the last 8:25 of the game was also very much Pete Carroll football, but we had to pick up some first downs through the air because Penny wasn't as consistent in the 3-4 yard runs. Still, he looked good and showed nice burst.

KiwiHawk wrote:What I saw today was Carson needing 3-4 tacklers to take him down. I saw Penny do some nice runs as well, and was heartened that he's improving, but I didn't see the drag-the pile sort of running that Carson does, and Lynch did.

What matters most in this offense is the ability to suck in defenders. If the safeties have to move up because the linebackers need help taking Carson down, then the deep routes are open for Wilson. If the linebackers are forced to respect the play fake, then they can't just spy Wilson all day.

I'll also say there was some good interior blocking happening as well. Carson was often able to get to the second level through the middle, which is fantastic. I lived seeing us run up the gut on 3rd-and-3 and make a first down. That's Pete Carroll football.

Running off the last 8:25 of the game was also very much Pete Carroll football, but we had to pick up some first downs through the air because Penny wasn't as consistent in the 3-4 yard runs. Still, he looked good and showed nice burst.

Don't need to drag tacklers if they don't touch you. Penny averaged a half yard more than Carson today and over a yard more per carry than Davis.

ImTheScientist wrote:Facts are Penny had the best YPC today amongst the group and most his carries were in clear running situations. He also lead the RB group in rec yards.

Unfortunately the fan base and media isn’t going to give him a fair chance. We are lucky Russell survived his first half a year because I remember media and fans were similarly negative.

I've been critical of Penny and was pleased to see some progress today. I still think Carson is outperforming him in effort, finding holes and breaking tackles, but seeing progress is moving in the right direction.

I too have to ask exactly what is it about Carson that you will not recognize or credit him for the effort and results he is getting? Very strange you call yourself a fan, yet throw shade on someone that is playing very well for your team??

You had a similar obsession with Lacey last year now this year Penny also that others have noticed....why?

Anyone else notice the kick return where he turned his back to brace for the tackle like he was scared of being hit hard?

Last edited by Seymour on Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

Seymour wrote:Very strange you call yourself a fan, yet throw shade on someone that is playing very well for your team??

I agree. Not sure why fans are throwing shade on Penny. Dudes been playing well when given the chance. I fully expect post bye week he will further be integrated into the offense.

I personally think that Penny's been given a rough go myself. I don't need even a first-round RB to be a starter on day one, and I think the guy's got talent and durability that will work itself in. So I'm not a Penny hater. Never was.

But we're asking about your hate-boner on Carson (and Rawls, while we're at it). Even the Penny supporters and neutrals in here think it's an eyebrow-raiser.

That’s week by week. Weeks 1-6 listed. I would imagine playing surface/conditions have an impact on speed.... Cool that Penny was the fastest this week on what was an extremely slow track.

When it comes to RB position, the runner would need to break a run into open field to hit full speed, and that doesn't happen every game for all RB's getting touches. Evidence of that can be seen in week 2 and 4.

I sort of understand the mindset to trash other players in hopes of elevating a guy you are championing. There's only one ball, after all, and so on a superficial level it looks like Penny's opportunities can only come if Carson fails. You're just not putting enough weight on the benefits of spreading workload around and the necessity of depth in the NFL.

Consider how close most backs are with their supposed "competition" and that the happiest people after any RB goes off are usually his fellow RBs. Having a productive group overall helps everybody, guys are fresher when they are given carries, they are more likely to remain available with a lower workload, and most importantly there will always be a need for depth at the position just given the punishing nature of the NFL. The example you should be taking from Ware is that he got hurt and the depth at the position has been key for Kansas City.

Personally, I would be thrilled if you are still banging this drum in week 14 because it means our group has defied the odds to remain relatively healthy.

That’s week by week. Weeks 1-6 listed. I would imagine playing surface/conditions have an impact on speed.... Cool that Penny was the fastest this week on what was an extremely slow track.

When it comes to RB position, the runner would need to break a run into open field to hit full speed, and that doesn't happen every game for all RB's getting touches. Evidence of that can be seen in week 2 and 4.

Not sure I understand what you are trying to get at....My post was Penny was the fastest ball carrier week 6. If you feel he wasn’t the fastest ball carrier week 6 let me know and I can help explain via PM.

It was certainly encouraging to see Penny help contribute, meaning we now have 3 quality backs that can be used in various situations (I wouldn't mind seeing a couple plays with all 3 of them out there in an old school triple I or wildcat). But he doesn't seem able to get any of the tough yards and appears to lack the mindset that he would sell out his body to get the 1st down--intangibles Lynch, Carson and Davis have in spades.

Penny's improvement is noted though and he can definitely help the team, but Carson has earned the right to be the featured back-he's produced, is consistent and a warrior out there giving max effort for every yard. So for someone to just cherry pick stats and seemingly root against Carson in desperate hope Penny will be the starter (in the same fashion last year with Lacy when Carson started) is bordering on Siouxhawk style weirdness.