[FBIS Translated Text] [Shaw] Mr. President, thank for
being with us this afternoon.

[Castro] Thank you, it is a pleasure.

[Shaw] And for us too. Exactly 33 years ago to the
day, President Kennedy announced on nationwide television
and to the world that Soviet offensive missiles had been
installed in your country. These two nuclear powers were on
the brink of war. The missiles were later withdrawn. Do you
believe that relations with the United States would have
been different had you not allowed the missiles in Cuba?

[Castro] No, because the missiles were a consequence
of the poor relations. The missile crisis marked the start
of detente between the United States and the Soviet Union.
Thus, the international political atmosphere improved.

[Shaw] When writing his autobiography, Retired General
Colin Powell quotes from a conversation held with Soviet
diplomat (Anatoli Dobrini), in which (Dobrini) told Powell:
You, the Americans, pushed Fidel into our arms. My question
is: do you believe that the Americans truly pushed you or
did you walk toward the Soviets?

[Castro] Things were not really that way. We were not
pushed. Problems arose, the [Playa] Giron invasion, ulterior
plans regarding Cuba, the dangers of a direct invasion with
conventional weapons. The elements that determined the
possibilities of installing those missiles were influenced
by factors... [pauses] I remember... [pauses] We were
informed of a conversation between Kennedy and Khrushchev -
- in Austria, I believe -- in which Kennedy spoke in terms
that caused Khrushchev much unrest. We were informed of
this conversation and sincerely, there was Soviet concern
because they had pledged Cuba much support. Something of
mutual convenience then arose: for us to have what
nowadays is called a nuclear umbrella. For the Soviets, to
my way of thinking, and as seen after all this time, it
meant improving their correlation of strategic forces with
the United States. Under these circumstances a visit to
Cuba by a Soviet delegation took place, presided by
(Ratchinov), who was party secretary in Uzbekistan and an
agriculture expert, it was said, because he developed
cotton over there in the steppe. He came with the head of
Soviet rocket science. When speaking about the risks Cuba
was taking, he asked me what could they do -- just in those
words. I replied that the only thing that could serve as
practically a total guarantee against a U.S. invasion was
for the United States to be made to realize that an
invasion to Cuba would mean war with the Soviet Union. On
more than one occasion the United States had said the
invasion of any ally would be cause for a war. The Soviets
replied by asking how could we make this guarantee? At that
moment they said that a firm step was needed and proposed
the installation of the missiles. On the other hand, we
immediately understood that if we had an advantage, so
would they. We then told them to wait, to please let us
think about it. We gathered all the revolution's top
leadership, we analyzed the matter, we included a moral
element -- whether we want the Soviets to fight for us if
we are attacked -- our moral duty is to run a risk in the
interest of Soviet security. We then gave our reply -- we
told them yes, that we were willing to receive the
missiles. This is exactly how I remember things happened.
Then came all the story afterward. I can reply to any other
question you may have on this.

[Shaw] I noticed you smiled when I mentioned Colin
Powell's name. Would you like to see Gen. Powell as a U.S.
president?

[Castro] [words indistinct] Gen. Powell and (Dobriniv)
and you said that we had been pushed. I disagree with that
point of view because events took place, as I explained to
you, and it shows that both Colin Powell and I have a good
memory on historic events. He remembers what he spoke with
(Dobriniv) and I remember what the Soviets spoke with us
about.

[Shaw] No, to be clear, what I said was that in Gen.
Powell's book he said that Ambassador (Dobriniv) had told
him...

[Castro, interrupting] I will explain that to you. In
our country and among us, and with me personally, Powell's
book -- or Powell, or Powell, is that how I should
pronounce it -- stirred great interest, historic interest,
and human interest. As soon as the book was published, no,
not the book, as soon as the excerpts appeared in TIME
magazine -- about 45 pages that I could read -- as soon as
the first edition was published our Interests Office sent
it and we assigned 46 translators to translate the book.
They translated Powell's book in four days. But I have not
yet been able to read the entire book because I had
meetings, the visit to Uruguay, the meeting in Bariloche,
the meeting in Cartagena, the meeting in New York. But as
soon as I get some time I plan to read the 500 pages of
Powell's book because of the interests I explained to you -
- historic, political, and human. I am, therefore, among
his readers. But Colin needs to be warned that we will not
print his book, but we already have it translated into
Spanish. It is the first translation into Spanish. If he
wishes we can lend him the material, which may be useful.
Books take too long being translated afterward into Spanish
and we had a need to get to know the book well. [words
indistinct]

[Shaw] What would you think of Colin Powell becoming a
presidential candidate?

[Castro] It would seem to me something very
interesting; something new in the United States and would
make the current political situation even more uncertain.

[Shaw] Mr. President, your daughter Alina Fernandez
Revuelta is in New York streets denouncing you and your
policies. How do you feel as Alina's father?

[Castro] Look, you are asking me a question of a
personal nature, a delicate question. I feel that I should
not discuss this topic publicly. It would not be
gentlemanly, it would not be reasonable to do so. I prefer
you to excuse me from replying to that question.

[Shaw] I understand and I respect your wishes.

[Castro] Thank you.

[Shaw] Personal contacts and discussions with world
leaders are important to you. What would a meeting between
you and President Clinton do for Cuban-U.S. relations?

[Castro] I believe that any conversation intended with
a constructive spirit can be very useful, but that any
conversation now in the short term between President Clinton
and I will be very difficult considering current political
circumstances in the United States with the election
campaign close-by, the controversy and uproar that Cuba
seems to elicit. I really wish Clinton the best success. In
general, I can talk to all presidents once they cease being
presidents, but while they are still presidents it is quite
difficult. It is for this reason why I believe that such a
talk would not take place. I was near Clinton during the
photo opportunity. He was standing near-by looking around,
smiling.

[Shaw] Did your eyes meet?

[Castro] Briefly. Therefore, I believe it would be
safe to say that I received a speck of Clinton's glance and
his smile which was also intended for everyone gathered
there. Afterwards we walked by each other and he was also
sitting at a table near-by. I listened to his address and
applauded when he walked toward the podium and when he
finished, as well as when he spoke during lunch as a matter
of courtesy and because of some of the content of his
speech.

[Shaw] Speaking of presidents who are no longer
presidents, around the world former President Carter has
helped to resolve conflicts in Haiti, North Korea, Africa
and in other places. Would you welcome President Carter
becoming involved in establishing a new dialogue between
Cuba and the United States?

[Castro] I sincerely believe that current
circumstances are not the most convenient for a successful
mediation. I understand that Carter is a man of goodwill,
and that he would like to struggle for peace all over the
world. I recognize that he would also like to do something
to improve relations between Cuba and the United States.
Conditions, I repeat, are not yet fitting and I believe
that Carter would be risking his reputation in an effort
that might not be productive. It if for this reason why we
would prefer to maintain some type of contact or exchange,
but for now, not think about any mediation aimed at
improving relations taking into account that we are in the
middle of an intense and complex election campaign. I
believe that we must protect Carter.

[Shaw] President Castro, American fugitive Roberto
Vesco is under arrest in Cuba, what do you intend to do with
him, and would you extradite him to the United States?

[Castro] I would like to say something. He is under
arrest on account of his conduct breaking our laws. Some of
the activities he carried out in our country are illegal.
Vesco arrived in Cuba when he was going through a very
serious health problems. Friends of ours in Costa Rica, or
I should say a well-known friend in Costa Rica, whose name
I will refrain from mentioning, [words indistinct]. We
accepted, he underwent treatment and he ended it
successfully. Afterwards, all he needed were periodic tests
and that is how Vesco arrived in Cuba. Afterwards, he
requested a resident permit which, considering his
background and as per requests from Central American
friends of ours, we accepted as long as he was willing to
accept our laws, and conducted himself accordingly. Thus, he
lived in Cuba for several years. However, from the start,
orders were relayed within the government that no business
relations would be maintained with Vesco. That was the
policy established. I understand that some people took
advantage of his business expertise but the government had
no relations with him. However, Vesco was very insistent
and started to develop some activities that ended up
violated standard policies as well as the countries' laws.
We arrested him and launched an in-depth investigation into
his activities. Now, you may ask me if we would be willing
to extradite him back to the United States. I would ask,
why? There is no record of the United States ever
returning any person to Cuba, regardless of the crime they
may he carried out. Hundreds of war criminals sought refuge
in the United States after the victory of the revolution.
These are people who killed thousands of Cubans and [word
indistinct] and the United States has never extradited one
of these persons. Therefore, there is no reason for
reciprocity or to return Vesco to the United States. There
would be no rationale or justification for this. One thing I
can assure you is that Vesco will not be allowed to violate
Cuban laws, and we intend to be very strict in applying
these laws in a public trial and according to standard
procedures.

[Shaw] If the United States were to return to Cuba
the fugitives you want, would Cuba send to the United States
the people the FBI and Justice Department wants; people who
are wanted for murder, air piracy and crimes?

[Castro] Well, air piracy is severely punished in
Cuba with several years imprisonment. This decision came
about as result of one of our initiatives to put an end to
a dilemma that could eventually end in a tragedy. We did
not invent air piracy. Air piracy was invented against Cuba
and then became a sort of boomerang. At any rate we were
the ones who decided to solved the problem once and for all
when one day we returned two air pirates to the United
States to stand trial. They were two Cubans who had sought
refuge. I understand that they were sentenced to 40 years
in jail, and never once where their relatives allowed to
visit them. On several occasions we requested that the U.S.
authorities allow the two Cubans to serve their sentence in
Cuba, to which they never accepted not even out of
humanitarian reasons. So we decided to take whatever
measure was necessary. Now, there is no extradition treaty,
and if there was ever one it probably expired years ago
because it was never honored. However, we find no reason not
to have an extradition treaty with the U.S. authorities.

[Shaw] If there were a reciprocity?

[Castro] Yes, of course, it could not be any way
otherwise.

[Shaw] In the U.S. Congress there is bill pending to
tighten the economic embargo. Some of its provisions include
that any country that [words indistinct] Cuban entry to
world financial institutions. Your reactions?

[Castro] Quite well. I am at ease. We have been used
to this sort of lunacy for some time now. However, to
prevent an American citizen from tasting a candy made with
Cuban sugar is to bar him from one of the best pleasures of
the world. Many things can be made with molasses, even an
excellent rum. In addition, there is a decorative aspect
about molasses and Americans are being deprived from all of
that. In addition, at this time, we still have more markets
than mere sugar. Of course, there is a moral implication in
all of this, an intention to intimidate all those who trade
with Cuba and attempt to discourage them. The bill also has
other measures just as the Torricelli bill, which is
already in effect. This bill is practically approved. I say
practically because we still do not know yet what will
happen. One thing I can assure you is that the United
States has strong opposition originating from Bariloche,
Cartagena, and the United Nations. Overall, since the
blockade was imposed it has cost Cuba more than $40 billion.
Therefore, the United States has a tremendous debt with
Cuba.

[Shaw] Before we pause for a very brief break, one
quick question: If you were locked in a room with Senators
Jesse Helms, Bob Dole, and House Speaker Newt Gingrich, what
would you tell them, what would you say to them?

[Castro] I do not know whether they smoke cigars. I
do not know whether they drink rum. I do not know if they
are people who like to talk. However, I could begin by
inviting them to try Cuban cigars or to have a drink of
rum. We could talk amicably, not only amicably, but
respectfully. We could discuss anything they want because I
feel that we are right and we are not afraid to discuss
with anyone.

Now then, you would have to ask them. They would
surely say: With Castro, never. We would never share a word
with him. Perhaps they would say that, but I do not have
their prejudice. I am more open-minded.

In the United Nations, there are countries that have
differing views on many topics, and yet there is a dialogue
there. But you asked me about my attitude, what would I say
to them? First of all, I would have to confirm that they
are people to which one can talk. Then, we could discuss
any topic they choose or that was of our interest.

[Shaw] President Clinton has signed an executive
order to ease travel restrictions on Cuban-Americans to
Cuba, to ease restrictions on scholars, artists, and clergy
members to allow [word indistinct] and human rights groups
to work in Cuba, and to allow Western Union to open an
office so that money transfers from the United States to
Cuba can be cashed. The president has signed an executive
order that will allow U.S. news agencies to open bureaus in
Cuba and if you permitted this, Cuban news agencies could
also open bureaus in the United States. Will you permit
this?

[Castro] Are you asking, particularly the former
question or are you asking me about...

[Shaw, interrupting] I do not want to seem as if I
have a personal vested interest in the news bureaus. Of
course, we are seen as yet another news agency that wants
to be in Cuba, but the crux of the President's executive
order, every aspect of it.

[Castro] That executive order, Bernard, is not
completely clear. It is not understood yet. It says that
under extreme circumstances, under an emergency, Cubans
would be allowed to visit Cuba, that is the Cuban-Americans
or the Cubans who come from the United States because they
reside here. What is meant by extreme or emergency
situations? Well, a grandmother who is about to die, is
that an emergency situation? Or is it a mother with a
terminal cancer, or a man who wants to see a cousin, or a
man who wants to visit his girlfriend? I understand that
from the human point of view, if an individual has a
sweetheart in Cuba, he would get permission only once a
year to see his girlfriend. Those are not the best
conditions for the development of a romance. Thus, what is
understood by that? To me, the visit to a sweetheart is
within the circumstances, it is extreme and it is an
emergency. Thus, all that is not understood too well. It is
not clear to us yet, that about the executive order.

It established the possibility for the Western Union
to act in the remittance of money to Cuba.

But you see, Cubans are the only U.S. residents who
are not allowed to visit their relatives under normal
conditions. They are the only ones prevented from helping
their families under normal conditions. It is a true
discrimination. Well, you know that the Torricelli Law
exists and the so-called track two of the Torricelli Law.

It has been said publicly that there are two ways to
destroy the revolution: one, through the Torricelli law and
the other, through the Helms-Burton law. But the Torricelli
law is a harsh law. It is truly a harsh law and Clinton
said that he intended to reinforce the blockade against
Cuba.

It is a kind of a remark which we feel is not totally
clear. They want exchange, they want to send us
sociologists, philosophers, politicians. However, they do
not want to send experts on computers, mathematics,
biotechnology, exact sciences, or research. They want an
unequal exchange of ideas. We do not want that many
scholars to send to the United States or that many
scientists.

But let us turn to the press issue. Actually, all the
journalists who have wanted to visit Cuba have done so.
Hundreds of journalists have been there. The entire problem
of the rafters' massive exodus was carried by all the
agencies and the television stations that wanted to go to
Cuba to transmit that to the entire world. We raised no
obstacles to that.

Now, what does this mean? That news bureaus can be
created and that we can do likewise, for every 100 bureaus
created in Cuba, we wouldn't be able to create a single one
in the United States because we do not have the resources.
We do not have the money for that. It would be an unequal
exchange of information. Thus, all kinds of news could be
collected in Cuba, from the point of view of the foreign
media and we would not be able to do the same with regard
to the U.S. policy. Therefore, it is an unique situation.
We truly prefer bilateral agreements with U.S. firms, with
U.S. journalists, instead of an agreement of this sort, in
these moments, under these conditions, when things are not
too clear for us.

[Shaw] President Castro, what are U.S. businessmen
telling you about their wish to do business with Cuba?

[Castro] What do I think?

[Shaw] What do U.S. businessmen tell you about their
wish to do business with Cuba?

[Castro] U.S. businessmen, from what I have been able
to observe, because I have talked to many of them, are
against the blockade. Call it blockade, call it embargo. But
this is much more than an embargo, it is an economic war,
an economic war against Cuba. But they do not agree. First,
because they have economic and commercial possibilities and
they are prohibited from taking part, second, because they
are men who are used to struggle and are men who like
competition. It is the same as if you are a prizefighter or
if you play baseball or basketball and you are not allowed
to compete. It is a problem of morale, mentality, and they
suffer when they are not allowed to compete. I notice, I
really observe, and today more than ever, a new phenomenon
that is the great interest by U.S. entrepreneurs for
economic relations with Cuba and the possibilities of
investing in Cuba.

[Shaw] If the economic embargo were lifted tomorrow,
would there be no freedom, political or otherwise, for the
Cuban people?

[Castro] In Cuba, we can do what our country
sovereignly decides to do. Our position is that we do not
accept any types of conditioning that may affect the
country's sovereignty and independence to solve economic
problems between the United States and Cuba or political
problems between the United States and Cuba. This is an old
position. I can assure you categorically that we would not
accept political conditioning.

[Shaw] Recently, you met with opposition leader Eloy
Gutierrez Menoyo. Are you evaluating the possibility of
allowing the formation of a political opposition party in
Cuba?

[Castro] For the time being we are not thinking about
that. [words indistinct]

[Shaw] What do you mean when you say: for the time
being?

[Castro] That is true, we are not considering it. I do
not know about tomorrow, or within 10 years, 20, or 100
years. In accordance with our way of thinking, our country
is not served well by a multiparty system because we cannot
fragment our people. We must keep them united, we cannot
divide them in a thousand pieces.

[Shaw] But there are people who argue that this
solidarity that you treasure is a form of oppression.

[Castro] Which one?

[Shaw] You say that political parties would divide the
country and some would argue that this is exactly what Cuba
needs, to break-up.

[Castro] If we had divided, if our people had broken-
up, the people would not have been able to resist the
terrible blow the U.S. blockade dealt for 35 years, nor
would it have been able to support the disappearance of the
Socialist field and the USSR. Only a united people could
support such a blow. And this is in accordance with our
tradition, because when the struggle for independence was
organized, Jose Marti organized a party. But we do not have
a system of parties, Bernard Shaw. This is something that
must be understood because our party does not nominate or
elect. In our country, nomination is directed by citizens,
neighbors. It would be too long to explain. I say that it
is the citizens who nominate. It is the circumscription
deputies the ones who nominate National Assembly deputies.
The deputies have to be directly elected by the people and
they need more than 50 percent of the votes and they are the
ones to elect the Council of State and the President of the
Council of State. In Cuba, there is no presidential regime.
President Clinton has many times the power I have. Latin
American presidents in general have more power than I. As
president of the Council of State I cannot even appoint an
ambassador, I cannot appoint a minister. I cannot appoint
officials that in many parts of the world are appointed by
the president. They have to be elected by the Council of
State. That is the reality.

[Shaw] President Castro, you are a student of history
and you are a very imaginative thinker. Your have made
sacrifices before. Have you ever considered resigning for
the economic well-being of your country?

[Castro] Has anyone offered this to me? First,
someone would need to make an offer. I do not see how my
resignation could improve the country's economy. What I have
said is that I will always be willing to do whatever is
necessary for the good of the country. I do not have
personal ambitions; I simply comply with the obligations
that have been imposed on me. I have not imposed them on
myself, it is life, it is the revolution itself, the people
itself who have imposed on me those obligations. I have
already said that we would not be willing to accept any
sort of political conditions. If I accepted this idea I
would be admitting that in Cuba political changes could be
made, including the resignation of the revolution's
leaders, in exchange of solutions to economic problems. We
are willing to give our lives for the country, but we are
not willing to sacrifice its independence, the country's
sovereignty. We are not willing to sacrifice the principles.
If I accepted that, I would be in contradiction of what I
said before.

[Shaw] What will happen in Cuba after Fidel?

[Castro] I was telling a group of friends who were
asking me that same question yesterday, that this is not my
problem; that is someone else's problem. The dead do not
give opinions and when those who are retired give an
opinion, no one pays much attention. This is the truth.

[Shaw] We are all mortal beings. One day I will be
dead, you will be dead. How would you like to be remembered
by the Cuban people and by the world?

[Castro] Don't you think that it is a bit difficult to
speak about oneself? I do not allow myself to be carried
away by vanity, by glory, or by history's judgment. Men
pass, history passes, and once in a while, one is
remembered. The important thing is to do one's duty and
wage one's battle. I have some evidence that despite all
the propaganda against Cuba and against myself, there are
many people in the world who appreciate Cuba. I have just
visited Uruguay and I was really amazed by the hundreds of
thousands of people who mobilized in that country. I could
hardly understand it because perhaps, thanks to you,
Bernard, you have made me famous, you have turned me into a
sort of David. The feelings that I was able to appreciate
there were extraordinary. I have been in other places. In
the Rio de Janeiro environment conference, there were
representatives of the world over there. I spoke there...

[Shaw, interrupting] That is why I asked...

[Castro, interrupting] I have no complaints. There
were so many people who went to greet me, so many people
showed me support. I went to Copenhagen, and exactly the
same thing happened. Today I spoke at the United Nations
and the U.S. people witnessed what took place there. Then
not everyone, Bernard Shaw, has such a bad opinion of me
despite everything that has been said against me and
everything that has been done against me. And as I am
practically the only country that propaganda is
concentrated on, then I have all the much more merit. Now
there are no longer any attacks to the USSR, attacks to the
PRC, Vietnam, the DPRK -- only Cuba is attacked. All the
campaign is against Cuba and Cuba has never had as many
friends as it has now. I ask myself why? Could it be that
we are right? Could it be that the people admire our
struggle? Could it be that people criticize the cruel
blockade against our country that kills men, women,
children, youths, and the old? As I said today, it is just
as if they were silent atom bombs. You know, Bernard,
contemporary people do not have such a bad opinion. What
will be the opinion afterward? That is something that
should not be fundamental for a man -- for a man who
struggles, for a man who wants to accomplish a task, a man
who acts in accordance with certain principles. But if the
opinion that many have today counts, perhaps future
opinions will also be good.

If there is one thing no one can deny it is that for
the past 35 years we have been able to resist all the
pressures, harassment, and threats from the most powerful
nation on earth. We were able to withstand it in the
political, economic, and military sphere. We were able to
withstand the fall of the socialist block and the Soviet
Union. People are capable of admiring those features.
However, they are not entitled to attribute those merits to
me, but to the Cuban people. I can sincerely say that I do
not care what people may think of me, but I do care of the
way our people will be judged and that our people are due a
significant historical consideration.

[Shaw] Religion. When and where will you meet with
Pope John Paul II?

[Castro] When and where? I cannot answer you at this
time. There have been talks, it is not an impossibility.
There are some political issues associated with our
relations with the Cuban Catholic hierarchy that has
influenced the visit one way or another. We do not want the
Pope's visit to be transformed into an instrument of
friction, contradiction, or conflict between the Catholic
church -- the hierarchy not the church -- and the
revolution. They have made some public statements that have
been published, but it has been managed with tact and very
carefully. Nevertheless, it is an element that has blocked
the pope's visit to Cuba. Please allow me to add that I
have a very high regard for Pope John Paul II. He is one of
the most brilliant and extraordinary figures of this
century, and one which I agree with on most issues,
although not all. Nevertheless, he is a person who deserve
all our appreciation and respect.

[Shaw] Mr. President, we are running out of time I
have ten more questions. I will continue.

[Castro] You can continue, I will try to be brief,
however you are the one who forces me to talk.

[Shaw] The human rights America's Watch group says
that many of the meetings of the Evangelical-Christian
movement, many of their meetings have been shut down by
your government. Does the Evangelical-Christian movement
annoy or disturb you and your government. Do you perceive
it as a threat?

[Castro] No, on the contrary, from the beginning we
have had excellent relations with the Evangelical church,
ever since the beginning of the revolution to date.
Unfortunately, the Catholic church in our country was always
associated with the wealthy. There was not one single
Catholic church in the rural area. This is an historical
truth. On the other hand, the Protestant church went to the
more into the popular sectors of the population and had
preachers in the rural area associated with the poorest
sectors. When the revolution arrived good relations
developed with all churches, but with some exceptions.
Sometimes we have had some problems with, for example, the
Jehovah's Witnesses on account of reasons which we are all
aware off such as military service, the flag, the country's
symbols, and so forth. However, recently, our relations
with the Jehovah's Witnesses has improved significantly,
and also with the Evangelical churches.

[Shaw] I miscalculated. I have less than a minute so
I will ask you two questions very quickly. You are wearing a
business suit more and more these days. Why?

[Castro] The reason for this is because in Cartagena
during a summit meeting we were advised to wear a
guayabera, and I discovered that I did not have one since I
have not worn one for a long time. Neither did I own a
suit. Some friends of mine decided to design a suit and
give it to me as a gift. Here I am, dressed as a civilian
for free. I feel quite well. I have done like Colin Powell
who has now dressed like a civilian. However, only for
formal and international events.

[Shaw] One last question and very briefly please
[preceding three words in Spanish]. The world series is
under way between the Cleveland Indians and the Atlanta
Braves. Your favorite team, please?

[Castro] Most likely because of my friendship with
Turner, I choose the Atlanta Braves.

[Shaw] President Castro...

[Castro, interrupting] Maybe it could have been a
Cuban team competing.

[Shaw] President Castro, thank you very, very much for
this one hour interview. It was a pleasure.

[Castro] Thank you very much.

[Shaw] You are welcome. [preceding three words in
Spanish]

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