...20 park visitors have died, the most recent six years ago, scalded by boiling Yellowstone waters..."

Nobody in the last 18 million "idiots" has died.

I thought we were gonna take math serious again.

So less than 1 in 18 million of the people who actually got close enough to see these "dangers".

1 in 5 million Americans is killed by lightning yearly, and that even includes the people who never see any lightning, including every man woman and child, and those who stay in the house, or never have the weather for it.

Only white people are allowed in National Parks. Haven't you been listening to Jimbino?

w.r.t. idiocy, I remember a story (alleged to be true) wherein a visitor to Everglades N.P. was playing a recorded Great Horned Owl call, in order to attract the birds to within viewing distance. It worked very well, and a highly territorial owl swooped in and scratched the guy up pretty good... and he promptly turned around and sued the park for allowing it to happen.

We have a family story that my dad rinsed out a diaper in a roadside hot pool on a visit to the park in 1954. I was too young to reliably verify the legend, but I do remember drying clothing by closing it in a rear car window to flap in the breeze while we drove. Sort of Grapes of Wrath in a 50's Chevy station wagon. Thank heaven no one in our faily will ever run for president.

We can plead, beg, coerce, demand, expect some people to have the ability to take care of themselves. It won't happen, some will never, don't have the ability, brains, desire, gumption, etc to do it. They will always be our responsibility as a civilized society. We won't let that poor guy or his cousin Floyd die in that mudhole if we can help it.

So Chickie, when dumbass cousin Floyd falls in the boling pit of mud and his skin is coming off in shreds and his shrieks of pain and fear rent the air, will the conservatives chuckle and point or will they try to help?

I think they will try to help, but they can't help, because they were too foolish and stingy to buy those long hooks that would've grabbed that dumbass and hauled him out.

They were sorely repentant and decided that a a safety hook was worth the money and better than the nightmares and guilt they now would face every night after their prayers.

Some of the onlookers secretly were satisfied with the memory of the shrieking man, felt he deserved it for being a dumbass.

Some felt it was fate and were soooo glad it could never happen to them.

So Chickie, when dumbass cousin Floyd falls in the boling pit of mud and his skin is coming off in shreds and his shrieks of pain and fear rent the air, will the conservatives chuckle and point or will they try to help?

Oop, whose big schtick is supposed to be, "Can we all get along?", falls back on the Lefty canard that conservatives love watching people suffer.

Actually, it's the Lefties who enjoy watching people suffer. When they see it, they know they can peddle their nonsense about how the key is "shared prosperity" (Choom's latest version of spread the wealth around).

We always just put our minority friends in the trunk to make sure the armed guards let us in. Sometimes you can bribe the guards if you have a black or Latino in the front, but why use up the beer money like that.

Once you get in, drive around until you find a place where nobody is, so that you can let them out. Otherwise, you may get chased out with shotguns and rock salt if they get spotted.

"So Chickie, when dumbass cousin Floyd falls in the boling pit of mud and his skin is coming off in shreds and his shrieks of pain and fear rent the air, will the conservatives chuckle and point or will they try to help?"

Floyd will be unable to grab that hook. Instead, it will take a crew of people risking their own lives to haul Floyd's fricasseed carcass to safety.

Prior to that point, Floyd made the following decisions:1) Ignored the KEEP OUT sign.2) Left the established trail3) Climbed over a fence4) Ignored the park ranger saying "get away from there, dumbass"

If only those evil conservatives would have provided a hook, then Floyd would have been saved!

One way we could save Floyd, however, would be to end tourism at that spot and install a geothermal plant.

Funny jimbino -- I don't know of any signs, rules, fences or whatever that keep anyone from visiting the national parks.

Tell me, where are they? What do they say again? Refresh our memories.

And -- you might be surprised to find Americans of color do in fact go to places like Yellowstone.

Not to mention you skipped the Asians ... why did you skip the Asians??? Mmm?

There are some things which are embedded in certain parts of our culture -- swimming, for example. I hauled all my kids around the county to make sure they got swimming lessons. It was "inconvenient." It might save their lives some day.

No one made me do it, no one told me to do it. Some parts of American culture value one thing over the other. Some people are afraid of the water and make no effort to change that for themselves or their kids. Not.My.Fault. Or yours either.

Different strokes for different folks, as they say.

If some people don't like looking at mountains and historical sights ... it is not racist.

Jimbino: There's one risk you won't encounter at Yellowstone: the chance of seeing any tourists of color,...

You obviously don't spend much time in Yellowstone park. Why comment on something you apparently are ignorant about?

edutcher: She petted the elk ...

Uh, I'm gathering from the lack of objection that you & she did NOT get ticketed or expelled from the park.

bagoh20: I thought we were gonna take math serious again.

Math is good!! 1 out of every 1 million Yellowstone Park visitors were killed by bears last year ... 2 inside the park proper, one on the boundary.

What do you think is more dangerous: ...

Camping at the trail head in the Jack Miner Basin, just north of the park, in a soft sided tent & with careless food handling.

....or, a leisurely stroll in Detroit anywhere outside the still disconnected civilized enclaves.

Paco Wove: playing a recorded Great Horned Owl call, in order to attract the birds...

Serves the idiot right....that recording is 99% likely to attract angry territorial owls, and 100% likely to scare every other kind of bird away.

Chickelit: We can plead, beg, coerce, demand, expect some people to have the ability to take care of themselves. It won't happen, some will never, don't have the ability, brains, desire, gumption, etc to do it. They will always be our responsibility ...

If the rescuer is from the wrong county, or is union, he won't be able to help.

Reference (this year so far): #1 Guy who was not allowed to rescue drowning guy in lake. #2 Lifeguard who saved someone on the wrong part of the beach and got fired (later rehired when many of the other life guards threw in their towels.)

"But the thermal stuff is really scary. You see 4 y/os running loose on the walkways.... :( "

My brother, his wife and three kids (3 to 7) went to the Grand Canyon on their way to visit us.

They did not have a nice time.

I can only say one thing... leashes. Dear God, use leashes.

(My teenaged daughter had an altitude induced panic attack on the ridge trail at Sandia Peak and started running... after I'd forced her to "get out of the house with us and stop whining." She is now excused FOREVER from hiking if she doesn't want to go.)

I spendt 3 days in Yosemite in December 2012. Of some 3000 visitors, fully 85% were Asian--whether tourists or residents, I don't know.

Of the 0 Blacks, 0 Hispanics and 0 Native Americans I saw there, god knows how many weren't citizens or residents.

Those of you who think I'm miscounting at Yellowstone or elsewhere, why not check out the gummint figures, which they admit are embarrassing?

I'm a scientist who, after sifting through evidence and observation, has concluded that there is no god and there is no minority Amerikan in our national parks and forests. Those of you who have contrary evidence are welcome to present it. That's how science, as opposed to your bloviating, works.

As stated by our gummint in http://www.nps.gov/civic/resources/Narrative.pdf

"Underrepresentation of diverse racial and ethnic groups in national parks has been an issue formany years. Researcher have found consistent and substantial evidence of theunderrepresentation of racial and ethnic minorities in outdoor recreation, particularly in nationalparks and have examined potential reasons for this under-representation and barriers toparticipation."

Ann and Meade have every right to enjoy Yellowstone; what they don't have a right to is to rationalize any sentiment to maintain the inherent racism.

To the extent Ann is libertarian, she would advocate selling off those White country clubs; to the extent that she's a bleeding heart, she needs to bleed a little more over her White privileges that are denied to her countrymen of color.

When the Supreme Court found de facto segregation in public schooling, it ordered desegregation "with all deliberate speed."

HaHa. We know how that turned out.

Now, I don't advocate busing our minorities from across the land to enjoy their patrimony that is now the exclusive romping grounds of White professors and Asian tourists. What I advocate is that those expensive monstrosities be sold and the wealth distributed among the Amerikan people, many of whom are struggling to put food on the table and get their kids a good education.

"....... What I advocate is that those expensive monstrosities be sold and the wealth distributed among the Amerikan people, many of whom are struggling to put food on the table and get their kids a good education."

Well, the Chinese are looking for some good foreign real estate investments. They have to do something with their dollars.

"Underrepresentation of diverse racial and ethnic groups in national parks has been an issue formany years. Researcher have found consistent and substantial evidence of theunderrepresentation of racial and ethnic minorities in outdoor recreation,

Well, then the only answer is to round up those recalcitrant ethnic tourist. How DARE they skew the quota numbers and be under represented!!

Shove them forcibly on a bus. Drive them to Yellow Stone and MAKE them march around the hot springs so we can meet our affirmative action quota of the appropriate mix of races.

You WILL go to the park whether you want to or not....Du wirst gehen. Jah.

jimbino advocates: What I advocate is that those expensive monstrosities be sold and the wealth distributed among the Amerikan people, many of whom are struggling to put food on the table and get their kids a good education.

What you really advocate is more free dope for your pipe and less of everything for your so-called breeders.

I think they will try to help, but they can't help, because they were too foolish and stingy to buy those long hooks that would've grabbed that dumbass and hauled him out.

I like that you describe it as "foolish" to not spend money on every imaginable way of saving OTHER people from the consequences of their own stupidity. "Morons must be kept alive at all costs" is not our society's highest value.

As for how I would react to a person dying from their own stupidity -- I would feel sorry for them. I would try to save them. But if I couldn't, I wouldn't lose a moment's sleep over it.

Heh heh. 25 years ago or more and you could pet bears, too, without a ticket or admonition. A bit further back, in 1953 I petted a black bear ( "Old Joe" )near the Yellowstone Lake Hotel. Darwin was kind to me in those reckless days.

Now a days ... Rangers are everywhere and enforce every "rule" they see violated. At times they over-reach when among actual informed animal enthusiasts versus pass-through tourists...but that may be the price of safety overall.

PS As to our disagreement on martial arts a while back: I asked her about that and she says that's the code of the Kodokan, which certified her black belt in judo.

Heh...I'd forgotten about that. But, yes, I can't disagree with a Judo or Ju Jitsu code, since I didn't train in either. My background is Tae Kwon Do / Moo Duk Kwan. I recall no duty to retreat once engaged in those disciplines. Similar philosophies of self control, true enough ... but perhaps different implementation.

For the record, my experience in Moo Duk Kwan (when it was relatively "new" in the 60's) version of Tae Kwon Do involved more fist work and throw work than seen in the recent Olympics competitions. The other variant in my experience was likely the military side and application of it.

Just because I believe that dumbass cousin Floyd probably deserves to be eliminated from the gene pool, doesn't mean that I, or any other conservative, wouldn't try....if we could.... to save his stupid ass.

For you to make that blanket accusation is really rather insulting.

It really isn't incumbent upon any of us to babysit and wipe the asses of everyone on the planet. Help out. Give a helping hand. Of course. That is why as Chip said, more conservatives than liberals routinely donate to charity. That is a fact.

However, one thing that I think defines Conservatism is self reliance.

I have horses. The younger sister of a black kid my husband has mentored for 18 years came out last fall as a "treat" for her birthday which my husband arranged.

I cannot tell you how many postponements and false starts and obfuscations it took from her mother before she actually got here. But that is only besides the point a little bit here.

This girl was absolutely terrified by my fairly small horses. Please remember these are domesticated critters, not wild animals. So where in her education did that information go awry?

Note that I did not grow up on a farm. Like most girls (but not this girl) I "loved" horses when I was young and would save my $1.25 and took a few lessons by riding the bus up to the riding stable in the next town. My parents were lower middle class self employed people. Not ritz, so don't sling the wealthy privileged white crap here.

Outdoors (including but not limited to things like snakes) totally freak certain parts of our population.

That is NOT.MY.FAULT.

If a family (<--- that may be the missing operative word there) does not choose to broaden their or their kids' horizons, that is Not.My.Fault.

Having the mother in the case above make such a big deal over promising the kid and then changing her plans over and over is Not.My.Fault. It is the way she lives her somewhat chaotic life.

It is a cultural bent which certain somebodies need to start to educate about and deal with, and I don't think the somebodies are the federal government.

Maybe Michelle needs to back off criticizing Gabby the gymnast for "celebrating" with an Egg McMuffin and start by encouraging people to make time to explore and appreciate the outdoors around them. You know -- start small, instead of skiing at Aspen.

Who knows, more blacks (the hispanics seem to be out there enjoying) might learn to enjoy it when the sky opens up on a high desert and blesses with rainbows. Or the red rocks knock your socks off (I did see some "blacks" in Arizona on vacay last month.)

And why do Asians like to be tourists? (They seem to outnumber whites at some places!) Don't know. Don't care.

(Another lick at cultural differences -- My guess is that Terry Crews did not go to the Y and learn how to swim when he was a kid -- he learned how to throw a football. Shoot hoops. Hence when dropped into the water on the reality show, it totally freaked him out. A basic life skill was overlooked.)

jimbino said...There's one risk you won't encounter at Yellowstone: the chance of seeing any tourists of color, whether Native, Hispanic or African Amerikan, who are part owners of the invaluable parklands.

Keep Amerika White=======================As other posters have noted, tons of Asians as well as whites...and in Cali, tons of Hispanics go.

As for the blacks, they don't care to go, and prefer their own National Parks they were instrumental in developing and now trying to conserve - like The Wastelands of Detroit...their business.

So Chickie, when dumbass cousin Floyd falls in the boling pit of mud and his skin is coming off in shreds and his shrieks of pain and fear rent the air, will the conservatives chuckle and point or will they try to help?

Oop, whose big schtick is supposed to be, "Can we all get along?", falls back on the Lefty canard that conservatives love watching people suffer.

That was the exact opposite of what she was saying! You left out the second half of what she said!

You are simply wrong, Cedarford. There are very few minority Amerikan tourists of ANY stripe in our national parks and forests, nor, as I have just witnessed first-hand, in any of California's parks and beaches, such as Big Sur's many. If you or Ken Burns happen to have photos or movies that show evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it. So would the Park Service. And don't count the Negro Buffalo Soldiers, who were forced to guard Yosemite & Sequoia 100 years ago.

Maybe Michelle needs to back off criticizing Gabby the gymnast for "celebrating" with an Egg McMuffin and start by encouraging people to make time to explore and appreciate the outdoors around them. ================The Mootch has more body fat in one butt cheek than Gabby Douglas AND Michael Phelps together have in their whole bodies.

Maybe it was good natured ribbing, but M. Obama left the impression that a Egg McMuffin is BAD FOOD..harmful to an Elite gymnast burning 7500 calories an day. Not so. It's fuel for the athlete.The "Michael Phelps Diet" was well covered, no need to get into that.

I object to the Health Nazi's demonization campaign that EVIL BAD PROCESSED FOODS! are at the root of obesity, particularly in blacks.It's not a problem that is going to be fixed by taxing Egg McMuffins as a bad, while giving the little Ghetto Porkers all the nutritious high corn fructose "natural fruit drinks" the Feds and the City can give them as "free stuff".

It blows my mind that people would advocate for forcing Amazon or any other online retailer to collect state taxes at any point, let alone in a crappy economy. If Walker's worth anything at all, he'll slap this down, pronto: http://wclo.com/news/2012/aug/13/walker-pushed-call-online-sales-tax-law/

I'm all for selling the National Parks as long as preservation is required as terms of purchase, maybe a long term lease. After that, do what works for your business plan. There is never enough liquor in those places anyway.

jimbino ... Europeans understand it: after hiking hours to the top of the Zugspitze, you can sit down and have a beer.

After hiking hours in a USSA National Forest, you will come upon a cross!

How do you do it? Really? I mean spew so much ignorance in a single day.

Tell you what, go count the number of American mountains you find crosses on and then do the same for European mountains. Hint: I don't know of a single alpine ski race venue that doesn't have a cross (one or more) high up on a pinnacle above.

That, and if you can find a beer for sale on those European mountains, you either not at the top or not on much of a mountain. Ypou might be at the top of a ski run, almost none of which ever start at the top.

Europeans understand it: after hiking hours to the top of the Zugspitze, you can sit down and have a beer.

After hiking hours in a USSA National Forest, you will come upon a cross!

So. Bring your own beer you lazy slug :-). Or a nice bottle of wine with some cheese, fruit and crackers in one of these You can sit in the shade of the cross and drink some wine. I don't think Jesus will mind since he was the one who turned water into wine. Wouldn't he be hand to have on your hike?

Are you so ignorant as not to know that Germany still imposes church taxes on your income; that it has no 1st Amendment; that it still censors Mein Kampf; that freedom lovers from von Steuben to Einstein and beyond have abandoned it because of its religious oppression?

I don't know about you, but I do know that this country pretends to honor religious freedom and racial tolerance, mostly to no effect, which is exactly the subject of my post. I might change my mind if I ever see an atheist run for executive office or a Protestant on the Supreme Court.

Germany is as racist as Amerika. The difference there is that they don't fake religious tolerance and, more importantly, that you can sit down to a beer after an exhausting day hiking the Oberland (where, by the way, you can also dine and overnight in a hostel).

I don't know why anyone bothers to respond. Or, I guess, it's ok for one person to push back against the obvious nonsense, just so recent arrivals don't get the idea that folks here go along with jimbino's nonsense. But a protracted discussion is beyond pointless!

For my part, I'll start taking Captain Amerikkka seriously as soon as he offers a rational explanation of why hasn't offed himself in penance for being the son-of-a-breeder.

Jimbino .... clearly alluded to finding crosses on mountain tops in the United States, but relaxing beers in Europe. Was that intentional nonsense, or just ignorance.

You've been there, per you, so why no remark about the cross there?...but specific allusion to those in America?

Your beer photo is nice, but that is not on the top of Zugspitze or any other ranked alpine venue.

You've been plain enough ... you have a hang up about where you think black folks are allowed or fairly treated. Did it ever occur to you that your attitude is part of the problem you have, not the solution the rest of us long ago established?

Stop the bullshit, and just tell me one mountain locale, USA or Europe, where you've been denied access or service? Just one. At any time in this century?

Any minute now I anticipate you will advise us that Guam is in danger of capsizing

"..I don't know why anyone bothers to respond. Or, I guess, it's ok for one person to push back against the obvious nonsense, just so recent arrivals don't get the idea that folks here go along with jimbino's nonsense. But a protracted discussion is beyond pointless!.."

I'm all for selling the National Parks as long as preservation is required as terms of purchase

Why would anyone buy remote land they aren't allowed to develop?

"Don't develop; charge entrance fees"

====================I am not in favor of it. Not with our government so corrupted on both sides of the isles by the Moneyed Elites.

Land is offered for sale, next thing you know the choicest pieces will go to the rich and powerful for a song.

The Everglades...Our nations premiere private gated golf and residential retirement community for those with means. Run by Friends of The Bush Family and Associated Donors".

Goldman Sachs Retreat and Recreation Facility - Private Property, No Solicitation, tresspassing...Formerly known as Yosemite. Organized by members if the financial community with deep gratitude to Nancy Pelosi and Barack Obama and George Soros for helping make this all happen.

Utah Moab and Escalade Chinese National Oil Company Preserve and Chinese nuclear waste site. No Americans allowed who are not employees.

My preference, hopefully awaiting flusher times and a better control on corruption, is that we have less Fed lands out West and more tracts bought up in the East. But that sales out West go to consortiums with a contracturally bound purpose of conservation and wise use of resources.

"Stop the bullshit, and just tell me one mountain locale, USA or Europe, where you've been denied access or service? Just one. At any time in this century?"

I have been thrown out of the Brick Oven and denied service twice in two years at the Eldo on Elk Street in Crested Butte, CO, at 8883 ft elevation, in violation of US, Colorado and specific municipal ordinances of the Town of Crested Butte.

Marshall Tom Martin can set you straight on the details, though I should advise him to expect a call from an idiot.

After consulting attorneys, the owner of the Brick Oven issued an immediate apology and the owner of the Eldo has offered me a conciliatory beer, advised his staff that I am persona muito grata, and welcomed me back.

And as far as Europe goes, I can tell you lots of similar stories, as I have worked in 12 countries there, from Scotland to Italy.

"I am not in favor of it. Not with our government so corrupted on both sides of the isles by the Moneyed Elites.

Land is offered for sale, next thing you know the choicest pieces will go to the rich and powerful for a song."

It's not even that complicated Cedarford.

Most of the land is remote and not particularly suited to development other than oil or something. If it's actually valuable, have an auction and get the value. But in any case, the ONLY people who will be able to buy it are rich people.

Because they have money.

Because they're rich.

Could I go buy a big chunk of Alaska? Not a chance. And government corruption doesn't come into that at all.

Jimbino ... blowing smoke am I? Must have hit a nerve I guess. Mostly, I am calling you are liar now. Period. You are now playing games. What money is involved here vis a vis my "big mpouth?" Is that more of your juvenile bullshit?

Let me be more specific, were you ever denied access/service specifically due to your race (whatever that is)? I mean specifically for race, not for some other disturbance that you later claim was racially biased. With the number of instances you assert, beyond the potential for being drunk and disorderly that frequency implies, I suggest to you that the problem is you, specifically, and your color is secondary.

When you've had all these problems in all these places, did you ever once stop and think, why that might be?

No, you're a fool ...even the photo posted on this cafe thread shows about 6+ people of color in Yellowstone versus no more than 3 white. By off you go on a race themed binge.

I really am sorry I engaged you at all ... never did I learn to buy it when someone pisses on my leg and tells me it's raining. I've been a sucker for your nonsense and I admit it. You, you're still stuck with your biased ignorance and self deprecation. Sorry bout that.

My whole family nearly died at Yellowstone, when my parents and I (just shy of 10 years old) drove down there from Great Falls, Montana, to holiday in the park. Unfortunately or fortunately we'd rented a small camping trailer and it turned out to be too much of a load for our little Nash Rambler car which overheated, leaving us 100 miles away from the park at Three Forks, rather than in the campground just west of West Yellowstone that we had intended to stay at. That night, sometime after 11 PM, the magnitude 7.x 1959 Yellowstone earthquake occurred, and 80,000,000 tons of rock fell on that campground. With us not present 28 people were killed who still lie entombed below that rockfall, which dammed the Madison River and created a substantial lake, known as Quake Lake, that one can still drive by and see. A hundred miles away I slept through it; my parents thought a bear was shaking the trailer....

You have nothing if not a big mouth. You are apparently ignorant of the history of race "relations" in this country. The Black or Hispanic man was NEVER strung up for race or color, of course, but instead because he was dirty or evil, or he (Emmitt Till) looked at or spoke to a White woman, was drunk or disorderly.

White folk have no end of excuses as to why they enjoy their privileges on the backs of persons of color. You need to look in the mirror to see the problem.

Visitor StudyYosemite National Park conducted a winter survey from February 2-10, 2008. There was a 60% response rate. The entire survey and results can be viewed at the Yosemite National Park Visitor Study: Winter 2008 [638 kb PDF].http://www.nps.gov/yose/parkmgmt/statistics.htm

91% of visitors were U.S. residents; 89% of those were from California.9% of visitors were international visitors. With 9% each from Germany, Korea, Taiwan, United Kindgom.20% of respondents had visited Yosemite National Park at least twice in the past 12 months.26% of respondents were visiting Yosemite National Park for the first time.29% of respondents identified themselves as Asian, Hispanic, American Indian and/or African American.84% of respondents listed "sightseeing or taking a scenic drive" as their primary activity, 73% taking photographs/painting/drawing and 35% listed "hiking".

Your delusions rest on the belief system that that stuff never happens to white people.

OMG you got in a fuss with TSA. White people never have that happen.

Park rangers never have arguments with white guests either. Just doesn't happen.

Right?

Stop making excuses. You don't know what happens to white people in order to compare if you're getting treated any ruder than they are. Several people have said that park rangers don't let anyone get by with breaking rules these days, and don't make any distinction between people who might know what they're doing or not. But I suppose that doesn't mean anything. Nor does the sentiment "well, that's the price to pay because some other people are stupid" or anything else anyone has said.

And you haven't been kept out of any national park. Not once. Nor has anyone else been refused because they're Hispanic or Native American.

But you want to insist that just by GOING to these parks that Althouse and Meade are doing something racist and wrong. You're an asshole.

And no one is wondering if maybe, just maybe, it wasn't you being a jerk that caused your problems. You've been a jerk here long before anyone had even the slightest clue what color you were.

The Park Service did a study of minority use of all National Parks:Thirty-two percent of respondents reported visiting a National Park System unit within the previous two years. Thirty-six percent of white non- Hispanics, 33 percent of American Indians, 29 percent of Asians, and 27 percent of Hispanic Americans reported visiting an NPS unit within the previous two years. The visitation rate for African Americans was 13 percent."

Let me be more specific, were you ever denied access/service specifically due to your race (whatever that is)

Quite true. There is a distinct difference in being ousted from a place because you are a certain race or whatever.....and being ousted because you are an asshole who is disturbing other people, interfering with the business owner's business and in general being a dick.

I vote that the reasons you are not welcomed with open arms is the latter.

How many of the Yosemite visitors were taxpaying Amerikan citizens or residents of Hispanic, Native American or African American heritage?

In the next report I posted it says: Thirty-six percent of white non- Hispanics, 33 percent of American Indians, 29 percent of Asians, and 27 percent of Hispanic Americans reported visiting an NPS unit within the previous two years. The visitation rate for African Americans was 13 percent."

I'd just like Jimbino to know that because of my difficulties with my intestines, that my bowel movements are diverse, based on their color.(and what I had to eat) From bright green to ecru to chocolatey brown. So to assuage his feelings of hurt, I formerly invite Jimbino, to visit one of my diverse stools.(everybody else is just gonna have to suffer without this technicolor splendor)

I have no idea what backwater Amerikan town you live in, but here in Crested Butte, Colorado we have this rule:

Sec. 10-11-50. Discriminatory public service and accommodation practices prohibited.

It is unlawful for a person engaged in providing services or accommodations to the public to discriminate, directly or indirectly, against any other person by refusing to allow the full and equal use and enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, including accommodations, and the terms and the conditions under which the same are made available to the public generally, or to provide adverse, unlawful or unequal treatment to any person in connection therewith.

Any scientist, or even pretender, will realize that there is a HUGE difference between stats on what percentage of Blacks admit to attending a public park and what percentage of visitors to a park are Black.

The positive side of this is that you represent perfect evidence as to why we need to privatize public education too, in addition to privatizing our parks.

Jimbino raised an interesting point that I hadn't thought about before, but his attitude was hard to look past. To refute his obvious bullshit I sought to produce a ready image

[minority people yellowstone national park]

And failed to find them as I imagined.

But. Down the list is one of Obama awarding a black park ranger. I clicked on it still seeking to refute Jimbo but failed again. I found this:

There is no clear explanation as to why so few minorities visit national parks. Economic, geographic and cultural reasons have been suggested, but Shelton Johnson feels it’s a combination of many factors.

“We’re all suffering from ‘Nature Deficit Disorder,’” said Johnson. “We learn to recreate from our parents, so if our parents never went to parks, as is the case with most minorities, the kids won’t even think to go to national parks. So when they go to take a vacation, the thought of experiencing the wilderness is entirely foreign. Because they don’t know what to expect from a visit to a park, it creates an anxiety, and the purpose of a vacation is to rid oneself from all anxiety.”

Training in basic math, statistics, or science training in general is a good thing and never in and of itself leads to or prevents hateful screeds in internet forums on alleged racism.

No, there must have been some jilting involved in the case at hand--something unrequited. This is that sort of emotional disturbance on full display. That and I can't get over the sheer amount of envy always displayed by such Althouse detractors.

I have no idea what backwater Amerikan town you live in, but here in Crested Butte, Colorado we have this rule:

Sec. 10-11-50. Discriminatory public service and accommodation practices prohibited.

It is unlawful for a person engaged in providing services or accommodations to the public to discriminate, directly or indirectly, against any other person by refusing to allow the full and equal use and enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, including accommodations, and the terms and the conditions under which the same are made available to the public generally, or to provide adverse, unlawful or unequal treatment to any person in connection therewith.

[See 10-11-60 for criminal and civil penalties]

Yo! Jim,

How many blacks are there for the skiing? Anything like the NP numbers? Probably some next door doing physiks right now.

Yep...we have those codes too. But also have the right to refuse service. Not discriminate, just to kick your sorry butt out of the establishment. See below.

Your right to refuse service can be based on one of the following five reasons:

-Patrons who are unruly

-Patrons who would place your business overcapacity in violation of local fire laws

-Patrons who wish to be served after hours or just before closing, necessitating the expenditure of overtime for your employees.

-Patrons who bring non-paying customers with them that require more space than one person would be reasonably be allocated. In other words, if a paying customer brings three non-paying customers and is seated at a four person booth, service cannot be refused. However if the customer brings six non-paying customers, he or she can be refused service because it requires the use of more than the one booth allocated to the paying customer.

-Patrons who exhibit such poor hygiene that results in numerous customers leaving.

In addition bartenders can/and should refuse to serve obviously over intoxicated patrons.

I imagine you fall under option #1 and perhaps #5 one as well.

In addition, there is no rule about the patrons kicking your ass out. Come on down and I'll introduce you to a few of the locals. Shoot off your mouth and cop an attitude like you seem to be sporting. They'll teach you some manners.

Any scientist, or even pretender, will realize that there is a HUGE difference between stats on what percentage of Blacks admit to attending a public park and what percentage of visitors to a park are Black.

So black people have some hidden shame about visiting national parks and won't fess up to it?

Man that's a good one.

Who gives a shit whether black people visit national parks.?They can go if they want to. Most are smart enough not to go. Head for the beach. Take in an air conditioned movie. Stay home and watch all those kickass black women winning gold medals on TV.

The dumbass by the thermal vent was white as far as I could see. But he could be a nice lobster red if he hangs around for a while.

You see, the parks are not racist Jimbino as you insist. Minorities are not going because they don't feel like it.

Hey, Bartender, I said hey!

Maybe that would be a constructive activity for you -- inculcating an interest in the great outdoors to disadvantaged minorities who, alas, had no exposure. Especially, I would imagine, native Americans who have so little exposure to the Great Outdoors. Joking.

In spite of your feinting with damn praise, I notice that you are one of the few around who gets the idea of truthful and serious analysis.

I am no detractor of Ann Althouse in any way, though I do wonder about her thunderous silence on the matter at hand--especially since she has put herself in a position to offer commentary on her first-hand observations of the apparent racism in Amerika.

It's a photo of Yellowstone so you know Jimbino's going to have something to say about racism. There's something about Yellowstone that completely gets Jimbino wrapped around the axel every single time.

Jimbino at 2:47: "I spendt 3 days in Yosemite in December 2012" [and only observed white people.]

Future perfect anticipatory racism + Science. It hasn't even occurred yet but Jimbino is already fired up and waiting outside the gates of the national park with a clicker and a spreadsheet program.

What's your solution, Jimbino? Forced busing of minorities to national parks? Paid for by the usual suspects?

I'm not a purist. I think there is sufficient business opportunity, public demand and scarcity to make a number of national parks sustainable and profitable under private enterprise. They don't need 100% ownership and control, anymore than cruise lines need to own the ocean. Government doesn't do a lot very well, but one thing they do do well is preserve, and these natural treasures are not just valuable, they are irreplaceable, in fact, priceless. In my mind, nobody could afford what they are worth if given the right to destroy them by a simple bad business plan.

A lot of money is made off of assets not owned, but managed. This is one area where I think government involvement would help, and I only believe that because I have seen it do so in this area for so long, and I have a bias toward preservation of the environment and it's unique value and irreplaceable nature.

I would have the government involved as little as possible while assuring preservation and equal access. Pretty much just a law stated in good old-fashion constitutional simplicity. It's just a special situation, like defense, where we all own it, the stakes are too high, and failure is not an option.

I don't think this is any great change, just better, cheaper management.

That actually was a thing, to get minority kids to the national parks. It took some doing. It did have an impact on those kids. They all were amazed with great outdoors beyond the city. They had no idea nature existed. None. They all had a blast. Their minds were opened.

They had no fathers. No boy scouts. Girl scouts, Cub Scouts. No Explorers. Nothing like that.

Government had nothing to do with that, and everything to do with that. The government runs the national parks. If government presumes to replace fathers in the family, or replace the function of a father for a fatherless family, then it should at least take its children to its own parks. In a modern complex government dominant society, it's the job of government to get the kids to the national parks so that they will understand their birthright and develop appreciation for Nature and the Great Outdoors.

Or, do your governmental job of keeping the park clean if not safe and leave everybody alone to do or not do whatever they want.

"Nobody in the last 18 million "idiots" has died.I thought we were gonna take math serious again.So less than 1 in 18 million of the people who actually got close enough to see these "dangers"."

Apparently not all of us are going to take math seriously. Your premise assumes 18 million people did something stupid. What, for arguments sake, 2 people did something stupid and 1 died? 18 million people, and a 50% fatality rate. Math IS hard.

"I spendt 3 days in Yosemite in December 2012. Of some 3000 visitors, fully 85% were Asian--whether tourists or residents, I don't know."

I dont know if I would argue with Jimbino the scientist. After all he has already visited Yosemite four months in the future and knows how many Asians will be there. I visited Yosemite a couple of weeks ago (in the past) But, I'm not a scientist.

I'm bored.It's still over 100 degrees this afternoon, for the 12th day and incredibly smokey from all of the fires.I'm trapped inside until it cools off about 7pm PST.I've done all my business bookwork and household chores.I don't have a new book to read.I've looked at everything on the net.I'm bored with my latest video game.Too hot to paint, knit or craft.Too hot to cook.Too early to start drinking.I'm hoping I can get him to blow a gasket.

But if I was racist then I would narrow the search. But I did not do that because -- and I think that I am morally superior because of this -- in that moment I realized I felt equal concern for disadvantaged little white kids too, they seemed so lonely and isolated in their raggedy clothes when I pictured them all together there and me trying to convince them that coming to the park is a good idea, but not the white kids. My little imagery thing I had going on broke down at that point.

"What, for arguments sake, 2 people did something stupid and 1 died? 18 million people, and a 50% fatality rate. Math IS hard."

Hell if just one did it and died that would be 100% fatal, and the place should be filled in with cat litter. Too bad that's not what happens and is some goofy scenario alluded to simply to attack my extremely clear point that visiting these things is not dangerous at all, and in fact, I bet even doing what that guy is doing in the photo is less dangerous than your average day, if you even have the guts to leave the house which is still statistically less dangerous than staying put, so now what will you do? Just pull up the covers and don't make a sound. Nighty-night.

Only I got it as a prize for a blog contest. (I don't quite remember what the contest was.) Signed by the author and packed in the box with filling that appears to be discarded printouts of the synopsis. Vampires aren't particularly my thing, but I'm pretty sure that these don't sparkle.

But I'm bored to. I should probably apologize to those who get to enjoy my bored crabby company. School starts next week and this week feels like limbo. Not enough time to start projects and not really worth starting anything ahead of knowing what instructors are going to actually want.

Those television shows like Swamp People and the crocodile hunting shows reveal aspects of Louisiana that I never saw and I lived there for three years, and went fishing all the time, and messed around the reservations on Barksdale AFB, which are not to be trivialized, there were three separate reservations, as I understood the system, each huge, and they did contain all of that typical to the area, but nothing as they show with tides moving in and crocodile all over the place. I didn't see any of that.

The shows about rednecks are amazing. I did not realize they are so organized. The way they do things out in the woods, I never saw that before.

That would be a vacation a kid would love. Pass off the kid for a sort of a little Lord of the Flies meets Tom Sayer thing for a week and have an adventurous time with rednecks. But then be so grateful for everyday conveniences upon their return, and well mannered and respectful and understanding toward adhering to propriety and social norms. That, or come back a psychopath.

It was about his experience as a teacher on Dafuskie Island, SC, then populated exclusively by poor black people.

The school was crap, because it was poor black kids in SC in the 1960's. Early on Pat discovered that the kids did not know what or where the Atlantic Ocean was, though they could have paddled to it in less than an hour.

By the time Pat was there long enough to get himself fired, he had (at least by his own account) awakened their curiosity. Actually by the students account too, since a number of them have written or talked of the experience.

Beaufort County (where Dafuskie is) was then about half black half white. Now whites are more like 65%.

The schools the blacks go to are still by and large crap. A few are not, sort of, but it ain't Sidwell Friends. They were crap before because that's all the school authorities thought the blacks needed. They are crap now because the school authorities have no idea how to make them good, even though they say they want to.

I wonder how many of Pat's former students have been to a national park. There were only 25 or so of them, but I bet some have gone.

I bet they also know that the number of blacks going to national parks is a crap issue. They have a good idea of what matters, having been rescued by a wise ass white boy from their crap schools.

Actually, I do have books, some my husband has read and are sitting around. I'm just not particularly interested in them. Several Vince Flynn, Clive Cussler, military action themes. I'm more into Sci-Fi, murder mystery and historical fiction. Ah...well... I guess I'll dig into the pile of books and find one I haven't read in a long time or out of desperation read one of my husbands books.

Kindle: don't own one...yet. I will break down and buy one. I like to read by the window in my easy chair or in bed.

Saturday I was supposed to say "I had a late lunch" as "Late I ate lunch" but what I said was "Late I ate lesbian" and it occurred to me in that moment that it was probably a mistake back there to make those two words both L word motions close at the mouth.

Have all (those who are following from beginning) taken to heart that a certain frequent poster on this thread has completely overlooked the black guy the Professor inadvertently (or perhaps with great forethought!) included in her Yellowstone photo of the guy in shorts off the walkway. (Hat tip Rabel @ 4:50)

Raaaannnndddumb!

Let's see -- jimboy If you or Ken Burns happen to have photos or movies that show evidence to the contrary, I'd like to see it.

Note how the conversation changed.

Seems Althouse did a nifty job with the diversity issue in Yellowstone.

Just FYI, Jimbino the Trenchant has a chronic massive bug up his butt about the national parks, having flogged his "white country club" bullshit for years, on blogs hither and yon.

jimbono: Now, I don't advocate busing our minorities from across the land to enjoy their patrimony that is now the exclusive romping grounds of White professors and Asian tourists.

Asian tourists, Latin American tourists, European tourists. Lots o' Chinese last time I went to Yellowstone, but every park, and every year, is different. The French were thick on the ground at Zion last time I went. If I were an asshole like jimbino, I would gotten pissy about dirty foreigners enjoying our parks and spending tourist dollars. Especially as Chinese and French are the wrong kind of people.

Odd, I took many cheap-o "roughing it" vacations in the national parks in my penurious youth. But that's not good enough for ol' jimbino, who apparently thinks that he's being oppressed if his park experience doesn't include swanking it at the Ahwahnee. (We whites and Asians get to stay there for free doncha know.)

Oh wait, he once spent three days at Yellowstone, apparently blind to anything but the Yellow Peril and the white folk who could afford the swish hotels, so he's an expert. But hey, we can't have these taxpayers having any say in what their tax dollars support.

Btw, jimbo, since you started the class/race war bullshit, allow me to point out that the people who are "struggling to put food on the table" are unlikely to be net taxpayers, and are already eligible for public aid programs. Some of us who are modest net-payers happen to support the parks, even if we can only visit them in tents. I know it enrages you that white and Asian taxpayers have the effrontery to believe they too get a say in where the tax money goes, and they value the parks, but there it is.

What I advocate is that those expensive monstrosities be sold and the wealth distributed among the Amerikan people...

As a member of the Amerikan people, I'd prefer raising more revenue by defunding the living daylights out of extortionate, corrupt, racist advocacy groups, and keeping the parks. And you know what? I don't give a rat's ass if certain "minorities" (many of whom by all evidence have more expendable income than I did when I was young and choosing to spend it getting to NPs) don't choose to enjoy them. Their loss, not my problem. There are plenty of tax-sinks out there that don't benefit me, either. Boo-hoo. Don't "get" parks? It's a "white thing", or an "Asian thing"? Get with the program, jimbo. Celebrate diversity!

There is so much available now, I am mightily impressed. I own the biggest ASL dictionary that I've ever seen and I know it through and through. When the magical online world of information appeared I was excited to examine and compare.

I'm all up in your dictionaries and all your vocabularies are belong to us!

At various sites, a person stands there reading from a list of words and returning to it, or having a fresh unexpected word presented, and they sign it, then the videos are edited into separate files and uploaded, sometimes with descriptions and sometimes without.

So someone sees the word "skirt"

One shows the word for a woman's skirt

Another site the person shows the word for 'evade'

And there's only one. Very rarely more than one way shown to say something. Bummer, because there's usually a lot of ways to say a single word or express a single idea.

The word pretend described earlier is shown on one site as 'tongue in cheek,' a thumb flicking the cheek, and that is the sign for pretend but a different kind of pretend. It has a physical element. The action is not happening at the head so it's not an idea kind of pretend. You can point the cheek flicks to say "that's bullshit" without lifting your hands to your head for bull horns. Yet another site shows 'false,' because that is what pretend means to the person who was asked to demonstrate the word at the moment they were asked to demonstrate it.

There are concept clouds that surround each English word and each word attaches to similar words with their own concept clouds, like tinker toys.

The sign movements have concept clouds around them too and it is where these clouds intersect that English words are translated into movement to express the idea and not necessarily the exact English word.

As to pretend, there is also "lie" a pretend thing vocalized and "fake" a pretend thing that exists in reality, surrounded by concept clouds that intersect with the concept clouds around the English word pretend. The fluency for the interpreter is in the facility in linking the core concepts by way of connecting fuzzy edges. That's how I see it. Now you are all very adapt translators with this advantage of clarity. You're welcome.

Chip A -- did you know parents are teaching their babies ASL these days --

Not "having lunch with lesbians," but the motions for common baby type stuff. Apparently kids get it and it is easy to imitate the hand motions to communicate while they are figuring out how to vocalize.

Very cute to see them 'talk' and I even have three or four words.

Found a book on it for Christmas last year which I passed along for the grandbabies.

You should watch Duck Dynasty. It's the best one (my cousin loves swamp people but I couldn't get into it).

DBQ, we have actually had an odd reprieve from the 100+ weather this past week. It felt like fall Saturday morning, at 68. Amazing for August in Arkansas.

I've been thinking about this racist park thing and of 3 black coworkers, one is afraid of bugs, another of snakes and a third was telling me today how she thinks deer in the yard are scary. I'm not sure how likely any of them are to go to yellowstone.

That's what I did. Done deal. Saw the value. Amazing how publishing has changed with the advent of Kindle and the Amazon venue compared to the old paper printing and agent process. Makes you want to write and publish.

did you know parents are teaching their babies ASL these days

My daughter did that with my grandson before he was vocalizing. Things like. "I'm all done..full...thirsty. ..want {specific toy name by signage}" Very useful. Of course now...he is talking up a storm. But I wonder how that early signing might enhance or change future communication in ways that we didn't experience before.

Dust Bunny Queen said...What are you hoping to get out of the experience?

I'm bored.It's still over 100 degrees this afternoon, for the 12th day and incredibly smokey from all of the fires.I'm trapped inside until it cools off about 7pm PST.I've done all my business bookwork and household chores.I don't have a new book to read.I've looked at everything on the net.I'm bored with my latest video game.Too hot to paint, knit or craft.Too hot to cook.Too early to start drinking.I'm hoping I can get him to blow a gasket.