Chinese Greens (formerly NY Noodletown)

I've just joined the chowhound pack and am a bit surprised that I don't see any messages, reviews, etc.about NY Noodle Town, located on the Bowery @ Bayard.I've been going for years and I believe it's one of the best cantonese spots on the Bowery, if not in the whole area. What do you want? Congee, Noodle soup,Roast meats--Baby pig at Noodle Town rules!! Any of the specials on the laminated table cards are great--any dish with flowering chives, any of the dishes with black pepper sauce, etc. Casseroles too, esp. Roast pig with oysters. Salt baked items can also be quite good. Need a salt baked squid fix?? EAT HERE. Although salt baked shrimp are now served without the shells (why, I don't know), the salt baked flounder can be sublime, and quite soon Salt Baked SS Crabs!!!What do you other dogs thnk?Oh yeah--the place is also open until 4 or 5AM...

they had the roast pig with oysters when you where there?! no fair, everytime I have tried to order it they didn't have it. I thought it was one of those things that was on the menu but never available, kind of like the sauteed watercress at the restaurant formerly known as Shing Kee. I have to go back and get that dish...

"kind of like the sauteed watercress at the restaurant formerly known as Shing Kee."

I know what you mean. They call it something else...I think it may be "water spinach". But be sure to order it with (off-menu) foo yee sauce, made from briny fermented bean curd. Their assorted mixed vegetables with foo yee is very good, too

hey, you're hip enough to know the Shing (and their great watercress), so let me ask you:what's the big deal with Noodletown? Am i missing something?

I went there especially and tried different noodle dishes two times. I couldn't believe how bland, dried out and tasteless they were. My local Chinese takeout joint was much better. And the attitude of the people behind the counter did not help at all!

Wonki, if you are reading this...the snow pea shoots at Tindo are excellent.I believe they are 10.95ish. Question for Jim or anyone else who frequents Tindo...I was there last week and saw someone eating what appeared to be a large fried crab. Two people were sharing. They did not know what it was? When I asked the waiter what it was I had trouble understanding him. From my vague description does anyone have an idea what that might have been?

Well,it definitely looked like a crab. It was large and looked fried. It reminded me of a large fried soft shell crab. They are not in season yet are they? Do you know the name of any crab dishes or lobster that I should order next time. I asked the couple what the name of the dish was and they did not know? Thanks for the help.By the way Jim, I went to Eva's in the Slope and it was delicious...2 for 2...thank you.

glad you liked Eva's. It's actually not as great as it was, willprobably be removed from the next edition, but it's still very good

ANY of the crab or lobster dishes are good. I like crabwith black bean sauce or with ginger and scallion. For advice,only trust the manager, the woman with glasses who hangs downstairs. The otherwaiters will try to sell you whatever's most expensive (unlessyou get to know them....which is a good idea)

I have eaten at NY Noodle Town 2x. I found that the roast pork was pretty good, and any more roast pork that's not totally grey and dried out is a big find. The roast duck had a nice star anise flavor on the bones (I know this because I knaw). The portions are huge the noodle dishes come in something like a pie plate which for many people is the sign of a good noodle joint. Perhaps that would be the reason.?Like I said earlier they didn't have the supposed roast pork with oysters that I wanted and they didn't have another casserole dish I thought sounded good, so I ordered something at the waiters suggestion a casserole also with Chinese sausage I did not think it was very good. I never ordered any of those seafood dishes described above since I usually go for roast meats (even though I was tempted by the pork/oyster casserole which I thought might have been made with dried oysters, but I never got to find out) at noodle shops. So maybe those are really fantastic?By the way, about the restaurant formerly known as Shing kee...I have always thought the clams casserole there was outstanding, however lately I get annoyed at them because I try to order watercress (water spinach)they inevitably tell me it is out of season, watercress ot of season!? they don't have the mustard greens either and the last time they did have the watercress (post closing and re-opening under new name) it was swimming in a pool of grease. So I order what they are obviously trying to get me to order which is flowering chive shoots and/or baby bok choy or something of that ilk, which are great but of course twice the price and sometimes you just want what you want, if you know what I mean. I still think the clams casserole are good there, though last time I went not so great (the clams weren't so delicious and I was actually able to stop eating the sauce before it was completely gone). Are they better next door? Do they have them at Tindo, which I was excited to hear specializes in all those casseroles of which I am so fond.Sorry, didn't mean to go on about the whole Shing vegetable thing, it has just been annoying me of late...

Nah, we LOVE it when people "go on". It's people "going on" that make these boards such a riot!

"Are they better next door?"

Do ***NOT*** .........repeat........Do ***NOT*** go in the restaurant just north of the-former-Shing-Kee (which, for the record, is Kam Chueh...woops, I mean the GOOD one we're talking about is Kam Chueh).

I won't get into potentially libelous statements here, but just trust me on this one.

I know what you mean about the watercress. It's really hard to order there. I miss the old Shing, where I had my cadre of waiters who knew me and would set down plates of shrimp in black bean sauce, watercress foo yi, and salt and pepper squid without my even needing to order them. After Sam died, the whole staff changed.

Do you have my book, by the way? I do a proper elegy to Shing Kee in my review of Kam Chueh.

Tindo has tons of clam casseroles. As always, do the little green menu. In fact, at Tindo, only stray from this special menu if you really know what you're doing. There is Not-Good Food to be had on the regular menu...

The former Shing Kee started at 42 Bowery. They opened a second location one door south at #40. This branch gradually became the better one. Eventually #42 came under separate ownership (yes, it's called something like WK seafood Rest). I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS PLACE.

#40, Kam Chueh, is still pretty darned good...if difficult re: watercress, and is the sole descendent of The Shing.

Just don't take "no" for an answer. Start by asking for watercress. When they respond with feigned non-comprehension (c'mon, they know from watercress...), flip to water spinach. In general, be so insistent and persistent that it's easier for them to simply bring you the stuff than to waste any more time with you.

My model in such things is Bugs Bunny. "A ride?? I'd love to go for a ride!! Where are we gonna ride to?!?", etc etc. Wear 'em down.

The foo yee part is easy (I'm surprised you don't know it...it's a classic serious Shing order), and the mere mention of these magic words brands you as somewhat of a Cantonese insider. It's almost as much of an "inside" order as Horlick's or Ovaltine.

So are we talking about watercress or water spinach (kam kung?) with the fermented bean curd? Both are great but they are quite different in appearance and textureAs I recall, when we fell in love with sauteed watercress it was almost always served with the bean curd. Now, its more usually offered simply sauteed with garlic. Is this an example of dumbing down the cooking for westerners?In the same vein, It used to be that when we had salt baked squid it was routinely served with a dish of some sort of spicy, funky fermented fish paste dipping sauce. Perfect. As the dish has become ubiquitous, the sauce disappeared. Any clue on the insider's term for this condiment?? thanks!!

There seems to be a simple solution for ordering watercress at Cantonese restaurants. Order it by its Cantonese name, not its American name. Which raises the question: what is the Cantonese name for watercress?

In any case, almost ANY vegetable is good with foo yee (which is, as I think you realize, simply a sauce, not cubes of fermented "stinky" tofu) except real delicate-flavored ones like flowering chives, snow pea leaves and the various baby vegetables. And you're right; this sauce is seldom served to outsiders...it's rare to even find it on a menu. Nonetheless, it's definitely just an option; it's perfectly non-gringo to sautee veg's just with garlic, too.

"a dish of some sort of spicy, funky fermented fish paste dipping sauce. Perfect. As the dish has become ubiquitous, the sauce disappeared. Any clue on the insider's term for this condiment?? "

I believe the technical term is "spicy, funky fermented fish paste dipping sauce"

Blame it on Bob Fass' girlfriend; apparently she went to China and on her return reported that Noodletown (pre-renovation, and no "NY") had *the* most authentic Chinese food she'd ever tasted. This I heard from Linda Twigg (friends with both Bob Fass - WBAI radio personality - and his girlfriend; Linda would go there and always order the same thing - which she never disclosed to me. Then she died (of causes not related to Noodletown), carrying the name of the secret dish to her grave. C'est la vie.

I keep trying and trying, and I can't for the life of me understand what all the fuss is about this place. It smells bad, the people are awful, and the food (though I haven't tried much of it) seems low average. But lots of otherwise smart people like it, so either it's mass dementia (like the tulip frenzy) or I'm missing something...maybe I'll give 'em one last chance.

read all your posts about the water spinach, watercress, etc. so i just had to respond. if you guys like that stuff, have you ever had sauteed snow pea greens, aka snow pea shoots, aka snow pea stems, and who knows what else? that stuff is awesome! and imho much better than watercress, water spinach, etc. (although i must admit i've never had it with that fee fi fo fum sauce or whatever it was i can't really remember ;-)). anyways, snow pea shoots aren't quite as bitter as watercress or as tough, they're a bit sweeter but still subtly bitter, kind of like a cross between watercress and regular spinach, although it doesn't leave that feeling in your mouth after eating spinach like you just got sandpapered in your mouth (know what i'm talking about?) i simply love that stuff and it goes so well with other chinese food that you have to get it with every meal (when you can). the preparation is simple, sauteed in lots of garlic and oil (or perhaps chicken broth). the problem, and i guess it's the same as the water spinach, is getting it. you can try first by saying all of the aforementioned versions of stems, shoots, greens etc. attached to snow peas, and if that invariably fails, you can fake the cantonese like i do, and say "dooohmg yao" (in the first word, it's a long "o" as in "oreo" and put lots of emphasis on the first word.) i guess it'd be easier if you heard it but that's just about the best I can do unless you want to call me, or better yet, ask a friend who speaks cantonese. unfortunately i believe it's a seasonal item and when available can be quite expensive, about $13 in chinatown probably and speculatively $36 at joe's shanghai midtown (sorry about that, couldn't resist :-) ). another thing is i haven't had really good snow pea greens in manhattan yet and would love to hear if anyone knows of places that do it right. take care all.

You're preaching to the converted, Wonki...this has long been myfavorite vegetable. It used to be an off-menu insider order, butthe secret's out. Ollie's Noodle Shop has 'em prominentlyon the menu, and even Ruth Reichl mentioned them a couple ofweeks ago.

You'd NEVER order 'em with foo yee, the fermented bean curdsauce, however. They're far too delicate a flavor. Justgarlic and oil and nothing more.Didn't know you were trendy, DID you? : )

The dish I will return over and over again to Fuleen Seafood Rest (Division Street) for is the pea leaves with, I think, three egg sauce on their special menu. Its a soupy, absolutely luscious dish, if you like the preserved eggs. Since the pea greens are so fragile & seasonal, they serve other greens in the sauce as well. Perhaps this is similar to Ping's offering.

Haven't checked in lately, but saw the many comments and questions about some of the wonderful Chinese greens that are such a complement to any meal in Chinatown. In case anyone still is interested:

"Watercress" is sai yun choy (don't know if that's the right Anglicized spelling, but that's close to the Cantonese pronunciation--this goes for the following too) It's really nice in a soup, too-- sai yun choy tong.

"Water Spinach" is ong choy. It is not watercress. This vegetable has arrowhead-shaped green leaves and a tender hollow stem. One of my very favorites...especially with foo yee, the fermented bean curd sauce. I believe it's some relative of the morning glory plant.

thanks so much for the awesome message, christine!!Any fave places for ordering this stuff?

I was just thinking...isn't it weird that Chinatown waiters suddenly get much more English-fluent when you order expensive stuff? There's rarely a problem with ordering, say "flowering chives with crab", and I've never once met a Chinatown waiter who furrowed his brow at the word "lobster"!

Oh yeah, and I forgot someone also had wanted to know the name of that funky, pungent, fishy condiment sometimes served on the side of certain seafood dishes. I think they were thinking of "hom har" or salted shrimp paste. I used to have that served to me with stir-fried conch.

>Any fave places for ordering this stuff?

My problem is that my Chinatown heyday was about 20 years ago, and all my favorite places are gone or changed. I fondly remember Mon Sing, Sun Hop Kee, and Canton Restaurant. Canton is still there, but I understand from knowledgeable friends that it is overpriced now and lacking in variety--it seems to be catering to the semi-sophisticated Caucasian taste. In its day, Canton was, I think, the best there was. But that was then, and this is now....

Hop Shing (is it Bowery or East Broadway--it's in that "five corners" area) is a grungy kind of place you probably wouldn't take your mother to, but it has been serving reliably good Cantonese food for a long time.

I have also had very good Cantonese food at Tai Hung Lau on Mott Street, but I don't know how it is on consistency.

Everybody is into the Shanghai places now, and that food is good, but in my book you can't beat excellent Cantonese cooking.

Thank you one and all for introducing me to a wonderful new dish. Last night we went for major feasting at our favorite Chinese, the Siam Cafe, (yes, I know the name isn't Chinese; they also have Thai and Vietnamese but their Cantonese is the best), in Cleveland. We almost always order pea leaves or choy sum with garlic, but last night I tried the ong choi foo yee style. We loved it, especially nice were the fine shredlings of ginger for punctuation. Another new addition to our repetoire was short ribs with black pepper sauce. Outstanding meltingly tender peppered slices of shortribs. This was my first foray into the mysterious,("What's in that pot?"), casserole category; plan to try many more. Also had familiar dishes such as shrimp won ton-noodle soup, Lobster with ginger-scallion. Observed some families trying an unfamiliar (to me), noodle dish and discovered it is a traditional home style preparation listed on the menu as noodle with bean sprout. Will have to give it a go next time. Thanks again for the tremendous tip. Heidi

I know all about the snow pea shoots too. Aren't they great? They seem to have them a lot when they are in season and I have always had them simply sauteed with garlic and oil and stock as you mentioned...YUM. We love them...

Wow. Really, like Wonki, I didn't know that people were hip to the whole snow pea greens thing. OK. Let me toss in an additional question: in the past there have been those times when we'd go to a Chinese restaurant and upon learning that the snow pea greens were out of season, we would order something called "Hong Chai." Like Wonki, I'm Korean so I know that "Hong" is Mandarin for red. I'm not sure what the "chai" means. But in any case, both Hong Chai and Snow Pea greens are prepared the same way: ultra high heat, garlic, oil and stock. Does anyone tell me what hong chai is? I am pretty sure they are not watercress or waterspinach or water--anything. They were about the same color as the snow pea greens but the stems of each leaf were very thin-- the whole leaf was very tender, and pleasant to the taste even for carnivores like me (see related follow-up in defense of Spam).

Hey Steve what the hell are you talking about. Have you ever been there. Hey try the soft shell crabs when they are in season they are the best. I don't know where you have been but it can't be as good as NY Noodle Town. Those other Sing Kee or what over are nothing compared to Noodletown. Get the HELL out of here. Hey go listen to linda she says thatit is the best and it is the best. Hey let me ask you a question are you a food critique. How would you know about food. Did you know that the New York times. that right the New York Times gave them 2 stars. The other rest. can step aside. Only 2 other rest. have stars. Do yours have it. NO. Hey i'm not saying that the other sucks but you have to try the food. It is real 100% authentic Chinese cruisen. It is not Chicken with Broocoli buddy it is like pea shoot with shredded ducks. Now thats a dish i always eat (if it is in season of course) Hey try that next time and tell me how you still think OK.

Hey Joe - while we encourage difference of opinions, there is no need to personally attack people who have different viewpoints than yours.

What gives you the right to tell them to " get the HELL out of here"? And I would ask you the same question - are you a food critic, and what do YOU know about food? I would venture to guess the answer is negative on both counts, since you seem to rely on whether a place gets stars from the NY Times to be considered good. The Times is NOT the only arbiter of good food around here. Some of the stuff discussed around here are below the radar of the NY Times, but these places have as much legitimacy as those featured by the Times.

This has always been (with a few exceptions) a very civilized and generous community of posters. Your boorish attitude is not welcome here.