Do Not Delete at least requires a cheat code to get to. (Actually I think it's another bug that can cause it to appear in a vendor's inventory if your mercantile skill is high enough)

I had a screenshot of a really embarassing bug on Steam, but it looks like their super-reliable cloud hosting service has deleted it for me. How convenient! It's a screenshot of the error dialog mentioned in the second bug listed on this bug.

I got that big bug where you weren't able to get the last house, the one that requires you to investigate a murder. And because I couldn't get that part I couldn't advance the game (Even by cheating and trying tio manually advance it). So I sort of lost interest in the game at that point and never finished it

I was fighting a dragon once and he got back onto his stone perch and refused to move. I was able to bring his health to zero but he refused to die. I was able to max my combat stats just attacking him.

I got that big bug where you weren't able to get the last house, the one that requires you to investigate a murder.

Oh yeah, that quest is a minefield. Whoever coded it in didn't think about approximately 50,000 "but what if the player does X..." situations, and you basically have to follow a walk-through step-by-step to successfully complete it.

Do Not Delete at least requires a cheat code to get to. (Actually I think it's another bug that can cause it to appear in a vendor's inventory if your mercantile skill is high enough)

Well, it's not a cheat. The only console commands I've used are tcl (for when I get stuck) and qqq. Speech skill is at 59, I'm playing a male Nord and I've taken perks up till "Merchant" (the left branch as far as my skill will let me). I don't even have any mods this time around.

Whoever coded it in didn't think about approximately 50,000 "but what if the player does X..." situations

To be fair, the entire game is pretty much an edge-case.@blakeyrat said:

And because I couldn't get that part I couldn't advance the game

Do you remember which quest line"? The main quest (the one with the dragons, not the civil war) didn't require any houses to the best of my knowledge. I could believe the war could get buggy depending on whether you sided with the Strormcloaks and what the situation was in Windhelm, depending on what you had done/were doing/will have done/will having had done/will not having not haven't done/breakfast at Milliways.

I found it amusing that when I was browsing one of the recap articles about whichever electronics show (sorry, I just don't keep up with this stuff very often) and noted that a Bethesda rep was quoted as saying they'll be implementing QA procedures in the future. I hope to God he meant to say "implementing MORE QA procedures" but I couldn't help but think how much that explained about Bethesda games...

I just remember aligning with the Stormcloaks and going through the war and all that, then afterwords the game was bugged and I had nothing more I could do. Sucked too - since that was fairly late into it for me - like 40-50 hours I think - and manually trying to advance the quest didn't do anything.

I might start over again soon though, just did another playthrough of ME3, revisiting some of the older blockbusters I own

I found it amusing that when I was browsing one of the recap articles about whichever electronics show (sorry, I just don't keep up with this stuff very often) and noted that a Bethesda rep was quoted as saying they'll be implementing QA procedures in the future.

Nope. Dive into Creation Kit (their level/gameworld/everything editor app). It has zero facilities for automated testing of any kind whatsoever. Not even simple "have the controller spaz-out" fuzz testing.

See my post here and enjoy someone posting in 3 minutes that rant I made about posting a different WTF than the OP in a thread.

Do Not Delete at least requires a cheat code to get to. (Actually I think it's another bug that can cause it to appear in a vendor's inventory if your mercantile skill is high enough)

From my experience, the "Do Not Delete" always seems to show up as soon as you get the "Merchant" perk (which lets you sell anything to any merchant), since it also lets you buy anything from a merchant's inventory (including some alchemy ingredients that normally aren't available).

Apparently there's a technical explanation for this chest, but that's boring so let's just lol at those dumb game developers.

Oh god, the stock UI! The horror. THE HORROR (unless this is console, then meh).

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't 'Do Not Delete' the name of that vendors inventory container? Mind you, you shouldn't be able to see it, especially within itself... that's some Inception style stuff there. I know there's a few places in the world, as long as you aren't running one of the unofficial bug patches, where you can actually access the vendor's inventory crate. Usually it's hidden under the ground, sometimes they didn't move it far enough from the surface that you can't trigger it. I think one of them is in Dawnstar?

I love the hell out of Skyrim, but it is a seriously buggy game; and to make it worse, the engine it's written on is entirely inadequate for the job and occasionally just pukes all over itself for no apparently good reason. Thankfully the modding community, with things like ENBoost and Shishon's memory patch for SKSE, have really helped things out.

Oh god, the stock UI! The horror. THE HORROR (unless this is console, then meh).

It works fine. What horror? What does being on a console have anything to do with anything?

I absolutely loathe the stock UI, but on console it's the only one you can use. I find SkyUI to have a much more mouse-friendly interface, and it provides more data on a glance that I can use. But, then again, that's just personal preference. The console statement was because you're stuck with the stock UI no matter what on console, no mods.

I believe this is a case of the chicken crossing the road to call the kettle black, and lay the egg it will hatch from.

I'm subtly implying that people who equate "playing on PC" with "playing with a mouse and keyboard" are fucking idiots who, in 2014, still seem unaware of what USB ports are for.

If you want to bitch about a type of controller, bitch about a type of controller. But for us here who do have some consciousness of the world around them, saying, "the Skyrim interface sucks on PC" is gibberish, because it's actually quite good... if your PC has a controller.

Oh god, the stock UI! The horror. THE HORROR (unless this is console, then meh).

No, this is a PC but I'm running mod-free (well, with the exception of the Space-core [SPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCEEEEEEEE] and the Unofficial Bug Patch) this time. Since my last play through a lot of the mods I was using had been broken by the Dragonborn DLC. Also, I wanted to try out the new mechanics without mods gumming up the works.

@CodeNinja said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, isn't 'Do Not Delete' the name of that vendors inventory container? Mind you, you shouldn't be able to see it, especially within itself... that's some Inception style stuff there.

Yes. I also think in a sane world it would be called something like "Arcadia's Stock - Should not display" so the people working on it don't have to wonder about WTF is this "Do Not Delete" item?

@CodeNinja said:

I love the hell out of Skyrim, but it is a seriously buggy game; and to make it worse, the engine it's written on is entirely inadequate for the job and occasionally just pukes all over itself for no apparently good reason. Thankfully the modding community, with things like ENBoost and Shishon's memory patch for SKSE, have really helped things out.

Agreed. The STALKER series was similar, the stock game was very broken. OTOH, that was a small Ukrainian shop with little to no budget IIRC. Bethesda doesn't have that excuse.

If you want to bitch about a type of controller, bitch about a type of controller. But for us here who do have some consciousness of the world around them, saying, "the Skyrim interface sucks on PC" is gibberish, because it's actually quite good... if your PC has a controller.

Given your usual propensity to (pretend to) care about usability, I'm quite surprised of your stance on this. </sarc> If the game requires the use of an external controller, it should list that under the system requirements. If the game requires a specific input method, it should arguably be bundled with, in fact.

The argument this game requires me to purchase a controller to be usable is just as valid and relevant as this game's interface is atrocious with the stock hardware for a desktop PC, and they are essentially the same.

Many people [citation needed] prefer a mouse for look movement over a thumbstick. There is no right or wrong about it, only preference.

If the game requires the use of an external controller, it should list that under the system requirements.

A keyboard is an "external controller" on most computers capable of playing Skyrim.

That aside, it doesn't require the use of one, therefore it's not in the requirements. Duh.

@Buttembly Coder said:

The argument this game requires me to purchase a controller to be usable is just as valid and relevant as this game's interface is atrocious with the stock hardware for a desktop PC, and they are essentially the same.

If you play video games, why wouldn't you own the input device designed and perfected specifically for video games? I honestly don't understand this mindset. Yes it costs money, but so does a decent gaming mouse.

@Buttembly Coder said:

Many people [citation needed] prefer a mouse for look movement over a thumbstick. There is no right or wrong about it, only preference.

Agreed. The STALKER series was similar, the stock game was very broken.

Only Clear Sky. Shadow of Chernobyl and Call of Pripyat were and are excellent.

Again, agreed. But with the STALKER Complete mods, they were much better. Hell, even the translations needed work - every gun was a rifle (the "find the family rifle" which was really a shotgun?) cellar mistranslated into attic, etc.

If you play video games, why wouldn't you own the input device designed and perfected specifically for video games? I honestly don't understand this mindset. Yes it costs money, but so does a decent gaming mouse.

I'll allow that you're using the word "perfected" as loaded and nearly meaningless. Try and play solitaire or minesweeper with a gamepad, then tell me it's better than a mouse for that game.

There is no one "perfected" input device for "video games", just devices that work better for some (such as flight sticks or racing wheels). A mouse works well enough for all types of games, and "everyone" has one.

The "mindset" is quite simple. $User spends a lot of their time using a mouse, so they have developed the skills to use it better than they would a gamepad.

I believe this is a case of the chicken crossing the road to call the kettle black, and lay the egg it will hatch from.

I'm subtly implying that people who equate "playing on PC" with "playing with a mouse and keyboard" are fucking idiots who, in 2014, still seem unaware of what USB ports are for.

If you want to bitch about a type of controller, bitch about a type of controller. But for us here who do have some consciousness of the world around them, saying, "the Skyrim interface sucks on PC" is gibberish, because it's actually quite good... if your PC has a controller.

I used to play mouse and keyboard on my laptop, and it was superior. SkyUI is the best. Then I started playing on the high-end HTPC on the TV after I kicked the wife out (literally, 10 years and I finally got the balls... what a bitch). For this, I must use the 360 controller to be comfortable in my recliner. It took some getting used to, but it's fine now. SkyUI is still the best. It gives you a lot of sorting and grouping options. Gives you colored icons you can sort by to arrange things by type. Gives you superior grouping when pulling up the quick favorites menu. Works fine with a controller. Stock UI sucks.

I believe this is a case of the chicken crossing the road to call the kettle black, and lay the egg it will hatch from.

I'm subtly implying that people who equate "playing on PC" with "playing with a mouse and keyboard" are fucking idiots who, in 2014, still seem unaware of what USB ports are for.

If you want to bitch about a type of controller, bitch about a type of controller. But for us here who do have some consciousness of the world around them, saying, "the Skyrim interface sucks on PC" is gibberish, because it's actually quite good... if your PC has a controller.

No, it still sucks. Once you use SkyUI and get all those nifty sorting operations that make life so much easier. Sort them by how heavy they are, sort by name, sort by what's stolen, sort by armor rating... the amount of information that's usable and provided at a glance is just so much better on SkyUI. There is a reason it's on the list of pretty much every "Top n mods you MUST have for Skyrim" I've ever seen. I will agree, though, that the stock interface works OK for a controller, at least navigation wise. It's passable. I will never call it anything more than that.

I happen to like using the keyboard and mouse, I have absolutely no trouble with it, I actually find it harder to aim with a controller. Heck, I even play KSP with my keyboard and mouse. Maybe that's just me, you can play yours with the controller if you want. I won't claim that my way is the best and only way to do something, nor will I revert to insulting the other person's intelligence in the process of doing so.

No, this is a PC but I'm running mod-free (well, with the exception of the Space-core [SPPPPPPPAAAAAAAAAAAACCCCCCCCEEEEEEEE] and the Unofficial Bug Patch) this time. Since my last play through a lot of the mods I was using had been broken by the Dragonborn DLC. Also, I wanted to try out the new mechanics without mods gumming up the works.

I can see that. The Dragonborn DLC is great, but man, it broke a ton of things. Even some vanilla stuff.

Many people [citation needed] prefer a mouse for look movement over a thumbstick. There is no right or wrong about it, only preference.

There is most certainly a right about it. The mouse gives greater sensitivity and control. That's not really under debate. The only question is how much you need that sensitivity. In a First Person game like Skyrim, generally you need that quite a bit, but I can certainly see an argument that other benefits (like driving controls in a GTA game) outweigh it.

Why would you play Skyrim with a mouse? Regardless of platform, that's a shitty experience.

blakey, are you on drugs? Because implying that a controller thumbstick provides a better, more accurate experience than a mouse is a completely crazy thing to say. It is an objectively wrong statement.

I happen to have a controller plugged into my PC for racing games, and when I started Skyrim for the first time I was befuddled by the fact that it chose to use the controller instead of the perfectly good, PC standard, input devices of keyboard and mouse. Then I spent a few minutes mucking with the menu and couldn't figure out how to make it NOT use the controller. After quitting the game I searched The Internets and came to the conclusion that the only way to make Skyrim use the keyboard and mouse is to... dun dun dun... unplug the controller. That's fucking piss poor design, no matter how you look at it.

After forcing the game to use keyboard and mouse, and installing SkyUI (through Steam Workshop, because fuck Nexus Mods' walled garden approach with a rusty pole) the menus actually became usable, rather than a hindrance. I love the game, and have had a lot (150+ hours) of fun with it, but whoever at Bethesda decided to console-ify it should be drawn and quartered.

Because implying that a controller thumbstick provides a better, more accurate experience than a mouse is a completely crazy thing to say. It is an objectively wrong statement.

I didn't imply that. (I never imply anything.)

Would you then elaborate on how The_Assimilator misinterpreted your previous statement?

I believe what he's saying is that he didn't mean to imply anything, he is stating it as an undisputed fact of life with which no one should argue. Those that do so @blakeyrat said:

are fucking idiots

That seems to be the gist of it, at least.

Except that what The_Assimilator said that blakey implied wasn't what blakey explicitly said, but it seems to be a reasonable implication to a reasonable person. I fear I've answered my own question...

I'm subtly implying that people who equate "playing on PC" with "playing with a mouse and keyboard" are fucking idiots

When the sentence begins with the words "I'm implying" and then you say "I don't/didn't imply anything" you are an idot or a troll. Or both. Or just someone who is so full of shit that you can't help contradicting yourself.

I'm subtly implying that people who equate "playing on PC" with "playing with a mouse and keyboard" are fucking idiots

When the sentence begins with the words "I'm implying" and then you say "I don't/didn't imply anything" you are an idot or a troll. Or both. Or just someone who is so full of shit that you can't help contradicting yourself.

Ah, I think see. The way I see it, everyone is arguing that he's implying that using a controller is better than using a mouse and keyboard on the PC. He never implied that, he flat out stated that. What he implied (and even though he said he was subtly doing so, if you have to say your subtly implying something, you aren't) was that anyone who disagreed with him was, "a fucking idiot".

I realize now that I poorly worded my original reply, my mistake. I hope, unlike my mouse and keyboard usage, that my transgression can be forgiven.

Can we just agree that whatever input device that you happen to prefer is the best device for you to use? Fucking Christ. I typically use a controller, but for some games I absolutely prefer a keyboard/mouse. Just imagine trying to play StarCraft with a controller (despite the fact that they tried it with StarCraft 64. I never played it but I imagine it was a shitshow).

Can we just agree that whatever input device that you happen to prefer is the best device for you to use? Fucking Christ. I typically use a controller, but for some games I absolutely prefer a keyboard/mouse. Just imagine trying to play StarCraft with a controller (despite the fact that they tried it with StarCraft 64. I never played it but I imagine it was a shitshow).

Can we just agree that whatever input device that you happen to prefer is the best device for you to use? Fucking Christ. I typically use a controller, but for some games I absolutely prefer a keyboard/mouse. Just imagine trying to play StarCraft with a controller (despite the fact that they tried it with StarCraft 64. I never played it but I imagine it was a shitshow).

Can we just agree that whatever input device that you happen to prefer is the best device for you to use? Fucking Christ. I typically use a controller, but for some games I absolutely prefer a keyboard/mouse. Just imagine trying to play StarCraft with a controller (despite the fact that they tried it with StarCraft 64. I never played it but I imagine it was a shitshow).