Papuasblya wrote:Get out while you can, Kim. You're right, they are idiots.

And so is Kim.

She should've at least told Max about the baby. He couldn't have stopped her from having an abortion anyway, though I'm sure he would've tried. Being a young college student is no excuse. She had sex with him just to use him.

Speaking of using, she did that with Chip, leading him on sexually. Chip didn't have the sexual problem. Kim did.

Alli had every right to tell Max. She's with him now, and Max had every right to at least know he had a kid (see above).

As for Lydia, here is the only thing she's right on. What Lydia did was wrong, and she needs to atone for her deed.

Yeah, everyone's acting like a jerk, but Kim old girl, you're not innocent, either. You could've added yourself like I pointed out, and then you could've been right on the money. Don't think you've made an "awesome" point just to shut everybody up.

Last edited by SAGG on Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

She didn't need to tell Max if she didn't want to. That's her choice. Yeah she's not innocent but geez Alli can't live without drama in her life, telling other people another person's business. How long ago was that? No point in bringing up old news.

seriously..that tramp's been nothng but trouble since she appeared..haven't found a redeeming quality in her yet. She wants to sound all validated on the way out the door? fine. as long as she's leaving.

Alli had every right to tell Max. She's with him now, and Max had every right to at least know he had a kid (see above).

Many people are under the (in my opinion) erroneous assumption that when they are told something in confidence, they have every right to share that bit of confidential information with their spouse. After all, you are equal to your spouse, right? You are the SAME PERSON. If I trust you, I MUST trust some dude I may or may not like or have even met. It's a stupid girl trick (I don't think I've encountered a man who does it). It shows a fundamental lack of respect for personal boundaries and, by extension, a fundamental lack of respect for your friends' privacy.

This comic is full of infuriatingly idiotic people, but the art is solid and the storyline periodically engaging enough for me to keep reading. The whole bit where Alli and Max moved in together to solve their problems magically, the inability for anyone to hold a straightforward non-cliched conversation...thank god someone said out loud (my favorite character too...one with some amount of depth) what I am guessing a non-small percentage of the viewing public feels.

Edit: and the tramp comment goes to show what I suspected about the readership, too. If Kim were a man with a similar sexual history and proclivity, you'd be praising him, right?

MildlyOnFire wrote:Edit: and the tramp comment goes to show what I suspected about the readership, too. If Kim were a man with a similar sexual history and proclivity, you'd be praising him, right?

Finally! Someone making sense!

First of all, I think a huge thing that EVERYBODY is forgetting to address is the fact that KIM OFFERED TO TELL MAX about the abortion! Remember how, post criminal chokehold on Max, Alli went to Kim and read her the riot act for sleeping with a guy that Alli, at the time (SEVERAL YEARS AGO, ffs), had no interest in, and then explained that she'd put 2 and 2 together and gotten 4, in this case that Max had knocked her up? All that? Practically the next comic is Kim offering to tell Max about the abortion -Alli is the one that shoots it down. If she doesn't want Max to hear something so sensitive from the person that was directly involved, what right does she then have to tell Max? Furthermore, what on gods green earth inspires her to tell that secret right then and there? Doesn't she know it's only going to cause emotional suffering on Max's part and a serious breach of trust on Kim's part? A trust that she basically demanded/forced out of Kim! That's what gets me! She has the nerve to tell Kim to get therapy for her "sexual addiction" and then, when Kim trusts her enough to spill things and get them off her chest, she gives it a matter of months before handing over that information to someone else. I can only hope that having her stupidity thrown in her face will make Alli understand just what a shrew she is -I doubt it, but I can hope.

Did Kim make a mistake in not telling Max? Depends on your opinion. She hasn't really stated one way or the other what she felt. Personally, I don't think she did. If I had a random one night stand and was stupid and got knocked up from it, I wouldn't wait around trying to contact the father.

I really hope Kim isn't leaving for good, because she's a great character, easily my favorite in this strip.

Oh, and I have yet to see people say as many negative things about Chip, who is as easily as a big a "slut" as Kim -hell, they both admit it! Ugh.

Mankowitz wrote:Kim is a murderer and a whore; This story will be far better off without the likes of her.

Dude, suck my bloody tampax.

ETA: Not to mention: Considering that Max told Alli that the reason he'd never told her about him and Kim sleeping together years ago was to keep her from getting hurt, it's rather hypocritical of him to be so angry with Kim for doing the exact same thing. Ugh. I've never really cared for Max and Alli, and this whole mess is not helping matters.

Last edited by missmocha on Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

MildlyOnFire wrote:This comic is full of infuriatingly idiotic people,

Any people could say the same about most people in the world. These characters are all immature in many aspects and have a lot of traits that we all dislike, yep, they are far from perfect, but isn't it the same wih real life?

And about people feeling happy that Kim is leaving and calling her names: Well, Kim isn't the most likable character in the comic, but I feel she's an important part of it, and even if she made mistakes in the past, at least she was mature enough to admit that she had a problem and worked toward making her life better. She took a decision and it was right for her, because she found she didn't want to deal with some people she didn't like anymore. Why are you being so hard at her?

It's sad to see people taking so hard on people making mistakes. If you were an alcoholic and went on rehab: How would you like people shutting you off as if you never went and do nothing to solve this problem?

The sound of rolling diceTo me is music in the air!'Cause I'm a gamblin' Boogie ManAlthough I don't play fair!

Papuasblya wrote:Get out while you can, Kim. You're right, they are idiots.

And so is Kim.

She should've at least told Max about the baby. He couldn't have stopped her from having an abortion anyway, though I'm sure he would've tried. Being a young college student is no excuse. She had sex with him just to use him.

Speaking of using, she did that with Chip, leading him on sexually. Chip didn't have the sexual problem. Kim did.

Alli had every right to tell Max. She's with him now, and Max had every right to at least know he had a kid (see above).

As for Lydia, here is the only thing she's right on. What Lydia did was wrong, and she needs to atone for her deed.

Yeah, everyone's acting like a jerk, but Kim old girl, you're not innocent, either. You could've added yourself like I pointed out, and then you could've been right on the money. Don't think you've made an "awesome" point just to shut everybody up.

Late edit: I meant to Kim was leading Chip on sexually, not Max. My bad.

Alli had every right to tell Max. She's with him now, and Max had every right to at least know he had a kid (see above).

Many people are under the (in my opinion) erroneous assumption that when they are told something in confidence, they have every right to share that bit of confidential information with their spouse. After all, you are equal to your spouse, right? You are the SAME PERSON. If I trust you, I MUST trust some dude I may or may not like or have even met. It's a stupid girl trick (I don't think I've encountered a man who does it). It shows a fundamental lack of respect for personal boundaries and, by extension, a fundamental lack of respect for your friends' privacy.

This comic is full of infuriatingly idiotic people, but the art is solid and the storyline periodically engaging enough for me to keep reading. The whole bit where Alli and Max moved in together to solve their problems magically, the inability for anyone to hold a straightforward non-cliched conversation...thank god someone said out loud (my favorite character too...one with some amount of depth) what I am guessing a non-small percentage of the viewing public feels.

Edit: and the tramp comment goes to show what I suspected about the readership, too. If Kim were a man with a similar sexual history and proclivity, you'd be praising him, right?

Not me. Sleeping around is sleeping around. Look at Chip. My point is in her little rant, Kim should've said, "Yeah, I did some stupid things in my life and I'm not proud of it, but I'm trying to at least rectify it, blah, blah etc." Kim shouldn't give everybody a lecture without taking some responsibility too.

Many people are under the (in my opinion) erroneous assumption that when they are told something in confidence, they have every right to share that bit of confidential information with their spouse.

Part of the reason that modern marriages fail so miserably is the absurd need to be some secrets kept from the spouse, overpraising individuality over the relationship of the marriage. Yes - they do have that right, that's what married couples do. In a marriage two people become, effectively, one unit - and only 1000% honesty will keep you going with as little problems as possible. The moment you start keeping even tiny secrets, you begin a snowball effect.

My wife and I became, essentially, the same person - just different sides of that person; long before we were married, infact. For the people who didn't like it, and did not respect the union that was, were basically dropped. I certainly did not want to keep secrets away from the one person I should be allowed to share everything with, and vice verca. When you start expecting that your friendship is above the honesty and truthfulness of an established relationship, then you are dishonoring that relationship and the people in it. When you become bitter about how much honesty there is in their relationship, your quality as a friend is in question.

So don't tell anyone that is married and/or in a decent relationship if you don't like their significant other, because odds are it will be talked about. Choose someone else to disgorge your emotional baggage on - or if you are that worried about secrecy, don't tell anyone. I wouldn't tell a cop that I broke the law and expect him to keep it under wraps, it would be unfair to that person as they have a comitment and responsibility that would be far more important than my friendship.

(I don't think I've encountered a man who does it)

You've just encountered a man who does it.

I don't necessarily look down on Kim for being sexually promiscuous - that's a stupid societal urge that's been bred into us for the past couple thousand years. Go her, she enjoys herself and, odds are, so do her partners. When we persecute females for sexual promiscuity, but praise males for it - who do we expect males to be promiscuous with? However, she should be abit more honest with her partners, and post-partners. Honesty precludes fault when someone gets hurt by a situation and/or actions when it was outlined to begin wtih. Example: Chip, this will simply be a sexual relationship, and I will not be emotionally attached to you or the situation. If you feel you can't handle this, then this won't work.

Honesty is both the hardest and easiest thing in the world. Once you keep honesty as your primary practice, so many things in life are enriched. People will like you for you, people can trust you as they will know you, your relationships will be rich with trust, and you will always know you are loved for who you really are, the good and the bad. Noone can prosecute you for misleading anyone, or lying to anyone. It's just reaching the decision for complete honesty that is hard.

As for the comment of; "It's her body, she can choose to tell him or not", certainly she does - doesn't make it any less of a dishonest and scumbag move. His body (or secretions thereof) were part of the child. And it's funny that most often the ones that scream loudest of "it's her body, she can do what she wants" are also the ones that scream loudest for child support when the consequences of the choice are born.

And for the record, Way to jump to conclusions there....for your information, yes I WOULD have said the same ting if Kim was a guy. If yo're going to critique me, do it on the grounds of things I said, not things you assume i'd say not even knowing me.

While I agree, Kim's tirade is much like the "tea-pot calling the kettle black." But she is within her right to call people out for their stupidity, just like when they called her out for hers.

Kim may not win the best person award, but she's been pretty honest with people so far and she's been trying her best to change into a different person than before.

Her relationship with Ally? Don't forget, Ally allowed Kim to move in with her. Ally's rules should kim move in with her, involved kim seeking the help she needed for her sexual addiction, and for Kim to be honest with Ally about all the guys she's slept with. Which is really none of Ally's business to begin with.

As someone mentioned earlier, when KimXMax happened, Ally wasn't even involved with the guy, so why is she bitching about an affair that happened 10 years ago? Next, Ally was the one that wanted to know about Kim's past, because she was after the truth, and apparently she couldnt' handle the truth.

Kim also proposed to tell Max about the abortion, but Ally declined the offer, and told her to move out with Chip. Next thing you know, Ally again, is causing drama and telling Max about the abortion.

Ally's been called out for her baby-mama-drama before by Forrest, god knows the girl likes to stick her nose in where it don't belong.

Chris and Kim, Kim didn't even know she had an addiction, untill Ally forced her to seek help. Kim did the right thing and broke it off with Chip when she realized she didn't love him. People want to put the girl down when she does the obvious and wrong thing, but when she finally does something decent, people still bitch and gripe about it, sheesh, talk about a tough audience, for once, give the girl credit for doing the right thing!

Chris, I feel sorry for him, but he really needs to grow up, and Kim's tirade with her calling him out on his whiny bitch mode, might be the thing he needs to stop being a needy whiny bitch. Maybe he just needs to find a chick who's just as whiny and as needy as he is.

Max has a right to be angry, but really, what's done is done, so, do your best to move on, because god knows you can't change the past. I can understand if he hates Kim and never wants to see or speak to her again, that would serve him a lot better than duking it out with his long-time good friend.

I feel bad for Lydia, and I really think that she shouldn't turn herself in, but we'll have to see what happends.

Many people are under the (in my opinion) erroneous assumption that when they are told something in confidence, they have every right to share that bit of confidential information with their spouse.

Part of the reason that modern marriages fail so miserably is the absurd need to be some secrets kept from the spouse, overpraising individuality over the relationship of the marriage. Yes - they do have that right, that's what married couples do. In a marriage two people become, effectively, one unit - and only 1000% honesty will keep you going with as little problems as possible. The moment you start keeping even tiny secrets, you begin a snowball effect.

My wife and I became, essentially, the same person - just different sides of that person; long before we were married, infact. For the people who didn't like it, and did not respect the union that was, were basically dropped. I certainly did not want to keep secrets away from the one person I should be allowed to share everything with, and vice verca. When you start expecting that your friendship is above the honesty and truthfulness of an established relationship, then you are dishonoring that relationship and the people in it. When you become bitter about how much honesty there is in their relationship, your quality as a friend is in question.

So don't tell anyone that is married and/or in a decent relationship if you don't like their significant other, because odds are it will be talked about. Choose someone else to disgorge your emotional baggage on - or if you are that worried about secrecy, don't tell anyone. I wouldn't tell a cop that I broke the law and expect him to keep it under wraps, it would be unfair to that person as they have a comitment and responsibility that would be far more important than my friendship.

(I don't think I've encountered a man who does it)

You've just encountered a man who does it.

I don't necessarily look down on Kim for being sexually promiscuous - that's a stupid societal urge that's been bred into us for the past couple thousand years. Go her, she enjoys herself and, odds are, so do her partners. When we persecute females for sexual promiscuity, but praise males for it - who do we expect males to be promiscuous with? However, she should be abit more honest with her partners, and post-partners. Honesty precludes fault when someone gets hurt by a situation and/or actions when it was outlined to begin wtih. Example: Chip, this will simply be a sexual relationship, and I will not be emotionally attached to you or the situation. If you feel you can't handle this, then this won't work.

Honesty is both the hardest and easiest thing in the world. Once you keep honesty as your primary practice, so many things in life are enriched. People will like you for you, people can trust you as they will know you, your relationships will be rich with trust, and you will always know you are loved for who you really are, the good and the bad. Noone can prosecute you for misleading anyone, or lying to anyone. It's just reaching the decision for complete honesty that is hard.

As for the comment of; "It's her body, she can choose to tell him or not", certainly she does - doesn't make it any less of a dishonest and scumbag move. His body (or secretions thereof) were part of the child. And it's funny that most often the ones that scream loudest of "it's her body, she can do what she wants" are also the ones that scream loudest for child support when the consequences of the choice are born.

I agree with everything you've said, but also, remember that if you want to blab your friend's secrets to your other half, you might as well not have any friends at all.

People are your friends for a reason, and trust is a very important part of that relationship.

For someone to ask/demand to know the truth from their friend, and then in turn go and stab that friend in the back by revealing a deep dark secret to their S.O. is highly frowned upon, whether you're involved with the person or not.

I can understand why someone wouldn't want to keep secrets from their spouse, but also don't pretend to be someone who you're not, and or demand that your friend trust you enough to tell you their deepest secret, and then have the audacity to bitch and gripe about it, because you got the truth, and you didn't like what you heard.

It's like golly- Ally bitched and demanded to know the truth from Kim, and once she got what she wanted, she bitched and griped some more about it and she told kim to keep the secret and then she told her to move out with Chip, and then she blabbed the secret to Max.

Then she has the audacity to get pissed off at Kim for doing what she asked Kim to do in the first place.

It's strange that the most recent burst of clear thinking is coming from perhaps the most messed-up character in the batch.

I agree with what others have said: Kim is trying to make herself into a better person, and come to terms with some of the wrongs she has done. I'm not going to let her off the hook for her past transgressions, mind you, but I will give her credit for trying to change. This telling everyone off may be a necessary step in her recovery. The ST gang is rife with strange drama and highly contorted relationships. If they were real people I would avoid the lot of them like the plague! Kim may have figured out that in order to truly get her life together, she needs to break away from this bunch and find her own way somewhere else. Sometimes people have to make decisions like that; I know I have. It's difficult, and it can be very lonely. But sometimes it's necessary. As much as I dislike Kim, if she were a real person and standing next to me right now, I would wish her the best of luck, and hope she eventually finds what she's looking for.

As for the other people in the gang, well let's see...

1). Chip's angst is understandable, but he does need to get over it and move on. I'm pretty sure he will, but he'll be a somewhat different person. He's been showing signs of increased maturity of late. Once he's over the current shock, he'll probably handle things better than we think. There is hope for this guy.

2). Max's anger is also understandable, but he also needs to let it go. There is nothing he can do to change what happened several years ago, and there probably wasn't anything he could have done at the time either. Being in a lose-lose situation is difficult, but sometimes life throws those at us, and the only option we have is to ride it out. Max, you're just going to have to ride this one out.

3). Ally did betray Kim's trust, and she should be ashamed of herself. But at the same time, knowing that Kim once aborted Max's baby isn't something that Max should be ignorant of. I know that in her shoes I wouldn't have been able to keep such a secret. But, I wouldn't have handled it in such a poor way. I might have, for example, given Kim the okay to tell Max the whole story, but insist on being present when she does. That would have insured that everyone involved knew the entire story. But as others have pointed out, Ally can be a complete drama queen, and she has a need to stick her nose where it doesn't belong. I wouldn't call her a "self centered bitch" (or whatever Kim called her) but I would say that Ally needs to learn some tact.

4). Lydia... I'm sorry, but she should turn herself in. I was very disappointed when Lydia, one of the most level-headed people in this strip, turned out to be just as flaky as the others. If she turns herself in, then redemption is possible. Even if she has to do it from the county lock-up.

5). Tom and Amy... talk about being in the wrong place at the wrong time. But, Kim didn't say anything nasty to them, so they are in better shape than the rest. They should go to one of their favorite eats and let everything calm down. Then go home and make love.

6). Rae... also wasn't at the receiving end of Kim's rage, but she's flaking out as usual. Forget about Haven, Rae. She turned out to be a twerp. Mikeala might be an improvement. Don't be a total dork, oaky? Like Rae would ever listen...

Mankowitz wrote:Kim is a murderer and a whore; This story will be far better off without the likes of her.

Remove yourself from the gene pool please. With fire.

I agree pretty much with everything Kim has said. I haven't liked Max or Allie for a long time now, but their self-righteous bullshit almost made me quit the comic. Allie had no buisness telling Max herself. She should've given Kim the ok to talk it out with Max rationally instead of sparking so much drama. Not only did it cause Max to fly into a rage, but it cast a shadow over Tommy and Emily's happy announcement. Shame on her.

And Max. Who the hell does he think he is? I'm of the opinion that when a woman gets pregnant, no one, not the father, nor her family, nor society, nor the law, nor GOD HIMSELF has the right to tell her she absolutely must give birth. Max would've had no business bitching about it back then, and he certainly has no business bitching at her about it now when it's been over and done with for years. What makes him think he should've had that child anyway? He was in college and an even bigger idiot than he is now. Neither of them had financial security. Heck, they weren't even committed to each other in any way. That child would've been raised by two immature people who weren't ready emotionally or financially and didn't even like each other. All this = shitty childhood. Fuck you, Max. Just fuck you.

As for Chip, I think he's one of the most blameless people in this scene. Yes, he's been whiny about what happened with Kim, but keep in mind that for him it's only been a few days since she dumped him. He can hardly be expected to get over her immediately. I know people who have taken months to recover from break-ups and move on. As for his fight with Max, it seems more like he's preventing him from harming Kim than actually attacking Max. Look at this comic: http://www.stripteasecomic.com/d/20080904.html He's actually preventing Max from punching Kim in the face in the first panel. Chip seems to have matured considerably since the Naomi storyline, and I hope he continues to do so. He's already a lot more mature than Max and Allie, though that's not saying much.

And Lydia is mature? Are we talking about the same Lydia who, when her boyfriend was being held against his will in a club, instead of calling the police, got everyone she knows involved? Helping the robbery of the music store does seem to come out of left field, but she's far from a paragon of maturity. And yes, she should turn herself in.

Tommy and Emily are the only ones in this scene who are completely blameless. (Why the hell was Max going to serve a pregnant woman alcohol? This is further proof to me that this man should never reproduce.) Kim is at least an interesting character. If I knew someone like her in real life, I doubt we'd get along. However, she is damn interesting to read about. I really hope she doesn't leave for good, because she adds some much-needed variety to the cast.

And Rachel needs to get over Haven and boink Mikayla. Fast.

"Honesty is the best policy." -Miguel de Cervantes

"Liars prosper." Anonymous

Here's to you,
Here's to me.
Best of friends we'll always be.
But if by chance we disagree,
To hell with you! Here's to me!

MURPHYCHACHO wrote:And Lydia is mature? Are we talking about the same Lydia who, when her boyfriend was being held against his will in a club, instead of calling the police, got everyone she knows involved?

Don't forget that she decided at the last minute to get behind and left the others take care of the problem.

And did you forget who saved the day that time? Kim

MURPHYCHACHO wrote:And Rachel needs to get over Haven and boink Mikayla. Fast.

And do it in front of the camera, like the last time she was with Haven! (please)

The sound of rolling diceTo me is music in the air!'Cause I'm a gamblin' Boogie ManAlthough I don't play fair!

Many people are under the (in my opinion) erroneous assumption that when they are told something in confidence, they have every right to share that bit of confidential information with their spouse.

Part of the reason that modern marriages fail so miserably is the absurd need to be some secrets kept from the spouse, overpraising individuality over the relationship of the marriage. Yes - they do have that right, that's what married couples do. In a marriage two people become, effectively, one unit - and only 1000% honesty will keep you going with as little problems as possible. The moment you start keeping even tiny secrets, you begin a snowball effect.

My wife and I became, essentially, the same person - just different sides of that person; long before we were married, infact. For the people who didn't like it, and did not respect the union that was, were basically dropped. I certainly did not want to keep secrets away from the one person I should be allowed to share everything with, and vice verca. When you start expecting that your friendship is above the honesty and truthfulness of an established relationship, then you are dishonoring that relationship and the people in it. When you become bitter about how much honesty there is in their relationship, your quality as a friend is in question.

I have happily divested myself of people like you and your poor wife. I do not consider my friend and his wife the same person. Most healthy marriages I know of have a division between the individuals while most codependent relationships are incredibly unhealthy and incredibly unpleasant to be around. Many of my friends are in stable long-term relationships in which one person might, *gasp*, go out without the other person! And have conversations! And not tape record the whole fucking thing to bring home to her/his spouse/partner@

I hardly violate the "honesty and truthfulness" of a relationship if I ask my friend not to tell his wife that I was raped in college (wish I were just giving an example). What if my friend and his wife had different views on sex before marriage, even in the case of rape? I know he, for example, would excuse it and she would shun me. Now I'm being treated poorly by someone I deliberately didn't talk to about a horribly painful event. Perhaps I simply do not know the woman as long as I have known my friend and I don't know at all how she'll receive it. Maybe I'd want to talk to her personally and not have her hear about it second hand, since the information will degrade between conversations and I'd rather not have her hear misinformation. I'm not asking him to hide from her that we saw each other or had an emotional conversation. A simple "MildlyonFire was telling me about some rough stuff she went through in college. It sounded really hard." conveys a lot of information without violating my trust.

In fact, I will venture to say that people who demand total honesty about personal conversations aren't doing it out of some highbrow desire for relationship integrity. They're doing it out of selfish, gossiping, back-stabbing, middle-school curiosity. Who I tell is my discretion and if you can't respect that, I wouldn't want you as a friend anyway. You have little enough respect for privacy that you'd tell not only your wife, but your friends, and your wife would likely tell her friends and family. You're hypocritical, self-righteous, and selfish. Why would I want to tell you *anything* except goodbye?

And it's funny that most often the ones that scream loudest of "it's her body, she can do what she wants" are also the ones that scream loudest for child support when the consequences of the choice are born.

News flash: It takes both a man and a woman to make a child. If you stick your dick into a woman, you should realize that you might make a baby. If you can't take responsibility for making a child, then keep your dick away from women. Whining that you don't want to support the child you helped make is like complaining you don't want to pay for the car accident you helped cause. Irresponsible male bullshit.

MildlyonFire wrote:A simple "MildlyonFire was telling me about some rough stuff she went through in college. It sounded really hard." conveys a lot of information without violating my trust.

In fact, I will venture to say that people who demand total honesty about personal conversations aren't doing it out of some highbrow desire for relationship integrity. They're doing it out of selfish, gossiping, back-stabbing, middle-school curiosity. Who I tell is my discretion and if you can't respect that, I wouldn't want you as a friend anyway. You have little enough respect for privacy that you'd tell not only your wife, but your friends, and your wife would likely tell her friends and family. You're hypocritical, self-righteous, and selfish. Why would I want to tell you *anything* except goodbye?

Woah, that's harsh. But I don't think you and Hop are talking about the same kind of thing. Even in a mature relationship, there are boundaries. My wife and I don't have much in the way of secrets. I was involved with a woman in college; it was pretty intense and ultimately self-destructive. My wife knows the whole thing; every ugly detail. Did I violate my old ex's trust? Probably. If she were here she would probably give me a what-for of epic proportions, and that would be her right. But, I had a choice between respecting my ex's privacy, and being totally honest with my fiance (now wife). There was no contest, and it took me less than a second to make the choice. Did I make a selfish decision? Perhaps. But I know that my wife isn't going to broadcast the whole story to the world at large, so whatever damage my ex's privacy has endured is minimal. At the same time, I'm pretty sure that before she (my ex) got married, she had a similar exchange with the man who is now her husband. So I guess we're even.

I have a gal-pal that I've known for over 20 years. We live in different parts of the country now, but we're still pretty close. She's told me stuff about her past that is pretty frightening. My wife knows very little of this woman's story, and doesn't have any strong urge to know it. She knows that my gal-pal has been through some difficult stuff, but not much else. She's never asked me for the details, and doesn't seem bothered with the fact that I know these details.

As it related to this story, Ally learned something about Max's past that effected Max, and by extension, herself. To be honest, in Ally's shoes I wouldn't have been able to keep that secret either. I would have handled it differently, mostly because I'm not much for confrontation and dramatics... something Ally seems to crave.

Now if Kim (for whatever reason) had divulged something about her past to Ally that didn't involve Max (say, for example, Kim confessing that she was date-raped by Serge), then Ally should keep it under wraps. That would truly be none of Max's business. But that's not what Kim confessed to. She confessed, to Ally - Max's long time lover - that she had aborted Max's child back in college. I wouldn't be able to keep that a secret, because keeping that kind of knowledge locked up can poison a relationship. Ally had to choose between respecting Kim's privacy and being honest with Max. She couldn't do both, and we all know which way she went. Though again, she could have done it better...

For the record, if these people were real, I would avoid the whole lot of them. But they are fun to read about, in a soap-opera kind of way.

MildlyOnFire wrote:News flash: It takes both a man and a woman to make a child. If you stick your dick into a woman, you should realize that you might make a baby. If you can't take responsibility for making a child, then keep your dick away from women. Whining that you don't want to support the child you helped make is like complaining you don't want to pay for the car accident you helped cause. Irresponsible male bullshit.

This I agree with. I think the whole Abortion issue has become more of a men's issue than a woman's issue (which is how it's usually portrayed). Our society has a sick tendency to encourage young me to stick their filthy little penises into any vagina that becomes available, and that has to stop. We need to start teaching our boys basic respect, and taking responsibility for their actions. Taking responsibility for one's actions seems to have fallen out of fashion in the last couple of decades, and the results are very ugly and very apparent. If a man isn't willing to take responsibility for a child, then he should put on a fricking condom (even if the woman is on the equally fricking Pill!), or better yet, keep his pants on. Unprotected sex = %25 chance of pregnancy.[1] Those are the numbers; seems pretty clear to me.

Cyberbard(Stay off my lawn!)

[1] Studies suggest that a woman is typically fertile about %25 of the time. Namely, the ovulation phase of her cycle. There are exceptions, but that's the norm.

As it related to this story, Ally learned something about Max's past that effected Max, and by extension, herself. To be honest, in Ally's shoes I wouldn't have been able to keep that secret either. I would have handled it differently, mostly because I'm not much for confrontation and dramatics... something Ally seems to crave.

Phthalo_Blue wrote:And really Max's reaction, him wanting to slap/strangle Kim for something that happened years ago, is over the top, and he needs to get himself checked...

And this time, for real and not as part as some kind of trap for somebody else. I agree that most of the characters need professional help, but Max stands above everyone else.

For example, he let the thing of Alli's chocking him - in front of all his friends, in his workplace, to top it - without venting or talking about it with Alli. I know he loves her, but that's something you can't treat as water under the bridge. Specially since she did it for the wrong reasons, at the wrong time, and I think she tried to overcompensate by telling Max about Kim's abortion, who ended up hurting him even more, instead of helping him.

Yep, she needs to keep her trap shut, I wonder if Max has a gag ball among his "toys"...

The sound of rolling diceTo me is music in the air!'Cause I'm a gamblin' Boogie ManAlthough I don't play fair!

atristain wrote:And this time, for real and not as part as some kind of trap for somebody else. I agree that most of the characters need professional help, but Max stands above everyone else.

Yes, just about everyone in the strip needs to see a shrink. But, if they were to get their personal problems sorted out, the strip would become rather dull. I can't see any of these people getting the help they need unless Chris runs out of jokes for that particular character.

MildlyOnFire wrote:News flash: It takes both a man and a woman to make a child. If you stick your dick into a woman, you should realize that you might make a baby. If you can't take responsibility for making a child, then keep your dick away from women. Whining that you don't want to support the child you helped make is like complaining you don't want to pay for the car accident you helped cause. Irresponsible male bullshit.

This I agree with. I think the whole Abortion issue has become more of a men's issue than a woman's issue (which is how it's usually portrayed). Our society has a sick tendency to encourage young men to stick their filthy little penises into any vagina that becomes available, and that has to stop. We need to start teaching our boys basic respect, and taking responsibility for their actions. Taking responsibility for one's actions seems to have fallen out of fashion in the last couple of decades, and the results are very ugly and very apparent. If a man isn't willing to take responsibility for a child, then he should put on a fricking condom (even if the woman is on the equally fricking Pill!), or better yet, keep his pants on. Unprotected sex = %25 chance of pregnancy.[1] Those are the numbers; seems pretty clear to me.

Wow, hey, good job generalizing, you two.

I mean it's not like there are guys out there who are perfectly capable of keeping their dicks in their pants, right?

Or guys who are perfectly sane enough to use protection/birth control if they do choose to have sex.

And there's certainly never been a case of properly used birth control failing.

Nor has there EVER been a case of a man owning up to a child he helped create. Nope, not a one.

We all just LOVE to stick our filthy little penises into any vagina that becomes available. ESPECIALLY when we get to dodge the consequences like the plague afterward.

Here's a 'news flash' for you, too: Much though you seem to rarely, if ever, hear about us, there are plenty of decent, well-being, hard-working men out there who treat the women in their lives with nothing but respect. And while we're perfectly aware that there ARE men out there like the ones you've described, it really, really irritates us when you generalize all men as being responsible for this and spout lines like 'Irresponsible male bullshit' or that atrocious 'filthy little penises' remark. We're not all a bunch of irrepressible horn-balls, and we'd really like it if the feminists of the world would stop hanging us by our balls simply for having them.

"Nice guys finish last......but only because we have farther to go." - Lord Belgarion

I mean it's not like there are guys out there who are perfectly capable of keeping their dicks in their pants, right?

Or guys who are perfectly sane enough to use protection/birth control if they do choose to have sex.

And there's certainly never been a case of properly used birth control failing.

Nor has there EVER been a case of a man owning up to a child he helped create. Nope, not a one.

We all just LOVE to stick our filthy little penises into any vagina that becomes available. ESPECIALLY when we get to dodge the consequences like the plague afterward.

Here's a 'news flash' for you, too: Much though you seem to rarely, if ever, hear about us, there are plenty of decent, well-being, hard-working men out there who treat the women in their lives with nothing but respect. And while we're perfectly aware that there ARE men out there like the ones you've described, it really, really irritates us when you generalize all men as being responsible for this and spout lines like 'Irresponsible male bullshit' or that atrocious 'filthy little penises' remark. We're not all a bunch of irrepressible horn-balls, and we'd really like it if the feminists of the world would stop hanging us by our balls simply for having them.

Cid, I think you're missing the point. Although I agree that "filthy little penis's" may be a bit, much, I whole-heatedly agree with what the two are saying.

Which is, if two people have sex, they have to be prepared for the consequences should there be. No one should be blamed for anything, and both parties are at fault.

I see where you're coming from, and I agree that there are men out there, who are responsible, and do take responsibilities for their actions, but you have to agree, that when it comes to sex (or actually anything for that matter) nothing is 100% fail-safe.

Heck, I've heard stories about women who've gotten their tubes tied, and men who've gotten "snipped" ending up having kids.

Not to mention both of the previous posters arguments, were in contrast to Hob Gblin's post. (Who's comment I didn't agree with)

As for the comment of; "It's her body, she can choose to tell him or not", certainly she does - doesn't make it any less of a dishonest and scumbag move. His body (or secretions thereof) were part of the child. And it's funny that most often the ones that scream loudest of "it's her body, she can do what she wants" are also the ones that scream loudest for child support when the consequences of the choice are born.