I use both the BD's and Petzl Laser Sonic's. The Petzl's take some getting used to; but I prefer them over the BD's. Go shorter than you might think. I have way too many 18cm and over screws and I often find myself wishing I had more 10 and 13's.

It depends on the ice but I think for most people 13's is where it's at. I think it might of been Will Gadd's site where they did some testing in lake ice and came to the conclusion that 13's were sufficient in good ice. Good ice being the key word. I generally carry more 13's and 16's and then one or two 19 or 22 cm screws for v-threads or belays.

Oh and I love the BD express screws. Hate the Petzl screws. Not a huge fan of the Grivel's. Those are really the only ones I've used.

As far as best screws, try Grivel if you haven't - I've been using the Helix and it honestly feels like you are cheating compared to BD's. They are super EASY to start, smooth going in and are of excellent craftsmanship and finish. It seems people jump to conclusions assuming the different design would make it difficult to rack but I have not found that to be the case in actual use. The Speedys make the entire placement process even simpler and more efficient with the pre-attached sling so you can spend your energy climbing more rather than fussing with pro.

Looking at MSRPs The BD Turbo Express, Petzl Lazer Sonic, and Grivel Helix all are exactly the same price, and with anything on the internet anymore, once you decide what you want, you just have to shop around a little bit for the best price.

Regarding length, Grivel makes just 3 sizes - again less to worry about reducing rack up time and hang time when it comes to placement. The small and medium sized ones (13 and 16cm respectively) are what I carry. I'll be getting a large (20cm) or two for when the occasion arises and for V threading, but it seems at the longer length (thinking >20cm), you are spending more energy cranking them in (if the ice is even deep enough) than value you gain in protection. I'll probably pick up a super stubby from BD too just in case only because Grivel doesnt currently make a super short screw.

I use the BD turbo express and they've performed pretty well for me. I have a whole medley of screws, but more in the 13 and 16 cm range. I actually put in a my lone old 22cm turbo screw the other day on a climb and it was painfully slow. I wouldn't bother buying any 19 cm screws if I had to do it again.

One advantage of the petzl laser sonic ice screws is the rotating hanger. This really helps me when I'm following as you can unscrew it with the quickdraw still attached.

I don't lead ice yet as this is only my second season but the rotating hanger could also help on lead. You could clip into the screw as you're placing it so you are theoretically safe even though the screw is not all the way in.

The petzl laser sonic and the BD turbo express ice screws place the same for me when making a belay anchor. As I said above, I have not placed screws on lead.

I've always used BD screws BUT Petzl had their new design out at the OR show over the weekend and a block of ice to play with placing them. personally I will be switching over once they hit the market, going to have the flip speed driver like BD but with the super aggresive teeth for easy starts.

I've always used BD screws BUT Petzl had their new design out at the OR show over the weekend and a block of ice to play with placing them. personally I will be switching over once they hit the market, going to have the flip speed driver like BD but with the super aggresive teeth for easy starts.

Scott, Did they retain the swiveling hanger? I like their hangers as you can easily attach two carabines to it.

the ones I played with have hangers like the BDs so the clip hanger itself doenst spin anymore. they have two versions comming out but both have the same bd style hanger, stong point of the second version is they use an aluminum tube to reduce weight big time, but the teeth are steel threaded and then pressed into the end so it'll never spin off the tube. an other strong point is the threads on the standard tube will be rounded over so they won't bing up as easily and wont cut your pants/harness/pack but they still cut into the ice just as easily and strong

the ones I played with have hangers like the BDs so the clip hanger itself doenst spin anymore. they have two versions comming out but both have the same bd style hanger, stong point of the second version is they use an aluminum tube to reduce weight big time, but the teeth are steel threaded and then pressed into the end so it'll never spin off the tube. an other strong point is the threads on the standard tube will be rounded over so they won't bing up as easily and wont cut your pants/harness/pack but they still cut into the ice just as easily and strong

Just read a review article on them. The aluminum screws with steel threads / ends sound cool for alpine use. I love that they will be selling a sharpening tool so you can do it yourself. That sounds great.

an other strong point is the threads on the standard tube will be rounded over so they won't bing up as easily and wont cut your pants/harness/pack but they still cut into the ice just as easily and strong

I'm with you Wally.. Although I only have two 19s. I use the 19s at belays or for v threads. I use half screamers half draws. The screamers for the couple screws placed after belays and anywhere that looks sketch. Quickdraws when things look good and/or when there's lots rope out.

My rack is 2 10s 4 13s 6 16s and 2 19s. I'm not sure I would place 13s for a belay but, hey whatever works for others. All my screws are BD Express.

Wow - surprised at the general consensus here. Perhaps I am a chicken! I prefer to place 16 cms on steep ice, and 19cms if I have a good stance. I rarely place 13 cms. And yes, I use screamers. :) Wally

My understanding is that the strength value of using an ice screw (assuming wise placement in good quality ice) is in the threads (not so much the tube length). If you look at a 13cm stubby next to your 22, the thread surface area is actually identical:

In other words, just because the screw is longer doesn't mean there is more threading surface to hold.

Longer screws allow the threads to sit deeper in the ice. If the top few inches of the ice are cracked, shattered, or weak then the longer screws would allow the threads to grab quality solid ice sitting deeper.

The equal thread engagement on all length screws is related to the pull out force.