​Yesterday afternoon I spoke with Nephilim theorist L. A. Marzulli and Biblical archaeologist and pastor Mondo Gonzales about their preliminary investigation into the elongated skulls of Paracas, Peru. In the course of the conversation, Marzulli apologized for calling me a weasel, and we had a friendly and civil discussion of some of the major issues surrounding the announcement of results of DNA testing and morphological analysis on a series of skulls from Peruvian museums. I also learned from Marzulli that Brien Foerster has been dismissed from the research team for sensationalizing the results and will not be part of future investigations.

​I am describing our conversation with Marzulli’s permission, and he asked that I summarize some of the key findings before discussing them. Here are some of the highlights he and Gonzales presented to me during our thirty-minute talk:​

Gonzales and Marzulli collected the DNA samples and described in great detail the procedures they followed to ensure that no contamination occurred. This included using sterile protective suits, changing their protective suits after sampling each skull, and collecting samples onto paper removed with gloves from a sealed package. However, Gonzales conceded that there are differences of opinion on the best way to avoid all potential contamination, though they followed the advice provided by the DNA laboratory to ensure the cleanest samples. As I understand it, an expert in DNA sampling was not on hand for the collection.

The team were unable to obtain usable nuclear DNA from any of the preserved museum samples, so all results reflect testing of mitochondrial DNA. A significant minority of the skulls tested contained haplogroups typically associated with Western Asia and Europe. Most notably, they found instances of haplogroup K, which is not otherwise attested in the Americas.

Dr. Michael Alday, a medical doctor, and Rick Woodward, a geography instructor with a master’s in anthropology/geography and currently pursuing a PhD in Biblical Archaeology, examined the Paracas elongated skulls and concluded that they contain osteological anomalies. These included a lack of sagittal suture, a smaller than normal foramen magnum placed farther back on the skull than in a typical human, enlarged occipital condyles framing the foramen magnum, and a few less noticeable skull changes. The two concur that such changes cannot be the result of head binding.

Based on the results of this preliminary investigation, Marzulli and Gonzales plan to seek permission to excavate new skulls that can be tested “fresh” from the ground, with the hope that the DNA will be less degraded than in those that have been in museum collections for decades.

In reviewing the results, some questions came to my mind, and I asked them of Marzulli and Gonzales. A series of academic papers published in 2013 and 2014 established that the founding populations of Native Americans shared significant genetic connections to central and western Eurasia, and to the Europeans descended from the founding populations of those areas. How do the team’s results compare to these findings? How do they plan to differentiate between an ancient connection to western Eurasia and a relatively recent influx of Middle Eastern or European voyagers, as Marzulli speculated might be the case? Marzulli and Gonzales were unaware of recent literature on Native American genetics but promised to look into the issue.

I also wanted to know how Alday and Woodward were able to differentiate between alleged genetic anomalies that prevented the formation of a sagittal suture and the process, documented since the nineteenth century, whereby head-binding causes the sagittal suture to close prematurely and the bone to grow together, leaving no fissure. They directed the question to Alday and Woodward and offered to get back to me with an answer.

When Marzulli and Gonzales said that the foramen magnum of each elongated skull appeared anomalous when compared to anatomically normal human skulls, I asked if they had been compared to known examples of elongated skulls produced by head binding. They had not. I also asked if the anomalies were compared to other forms of disordered skulls and not just normal ones, and again they directed the question to Alday and Woodward.

I did not have time to get into questions of collection protocol, which is too far outside my even cursory knowledge to productively interrogate. My gut feeling, however, from listening to them talk is that the haplogroup K result might well be the result of accidental contamination, but I do not have enough information to evaluate this accurately.

A deeper concern that I had revolved around the fact that neither Marzulli nor Gonzales had an expert’s command of their own findings. Gonzales, for example, specifically stated that he did “my part” and trusted the other team members to do theirs. He did not, for example, discuss in detail with the other team members the underlying arguments for why the elongated skulls are allegedly outside the range of normal human anatomy, and neither he nor Marzulli was able to answer questions about whether the supposed anomalies can be found in skulls elongated by head-binding or in indisputably human skulls exhibiting pathologies. Similarly, both men emphasized their lack of qualification to address questions about the deeper details of their genetic tests, and they were unfamiliar with recent literature on Native American DNA and its connections to central, rather than northeastern, Asia.

In the end, I came away convinced the Marzulli and Gonzales were genuinely trying to understand elongated skulls in Paracas and their cultural and biological history. But I was equally convinced that they had not actually developed a carefully considered program of study to gather the answers. They had not generated a testable hypothesis, nor considered how to differentiate among potential alternative explanations. Both were utterly convinced that there was something inexplicable about the Paracas elongated skulls, but I was genuinely surprised that neither had really considered how to determine what they felt was weird or what it means. They rushed into DNA testing (and a book and DVD set to market it) and struggled to find a post hoc justification for having done so without a theoretical or methodological foundation, eventually deciding that no conclusions were possible. As Charles Darwin once said, “How odd it is that anyone should not see that all observation must be for or against some view if it is to be of any service!” I cannot help but feel that the influence of their shared ideology and the lack of an objective voice on their team has had a negative impact on their approach and analysis.

Marzulli thanked me for some of the questions I asked and said that these were important issues to address in order to produce more rigorous results. He offered to answer additional questions about the DNA results and osteological analysis, but I confess that my expertise on this subject is limited. Therefore, I would like to open the questioning to my readers. Let me know in the comments below or by email what you would like me to ask Marzulli about the tests and analysis of the Paracas skulls, and I will collect these questions and pass them on for him to answer. I look forward to hearing what you’d like to know.

I would like to know what the point of the whole exercise is. They want to desecrate more graves to do more amateur and unqualified testing that will never be accepted by professionals. (and rightly so)
Is the purpose only to make a buck ?
How can they not understand that they are completely unqualified ?

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Machala

2/23/2018 09:20:46 am

Very interesting, Jason.
While it in no way, alters my opinions of señores Marzulli and Gonzales, I am pleased to see that they were receptive to being interviewed by you and were as forthcoming as they were.

I am particularly pleased to hear that they jettisoned Brien Foerster. His reputation for self-aggrandizement, exploitation, and false claims, did nothing to enhance the reputation of Team Marzulli.

Would that I had more than a cursory knowledge of DNA protocols and testing. Unfortunately, I don't, so I have no intelligent question for you to pose to Marzulli. I'm sure though, that there are many others readers who do.

I look forward to reading their questions and hearing the answers from Team Marzulli.

It is respectable that they had this talk with you, Jason, and it is very valuable that you were ready to join in the talk.

In the end, Marzulli and others simply have a lack of awareness what is needed to match academic standards. This is not evil in itself, it is only annoying when such people start to claim things and pretend they knew better.

You had now the chance to get to know these characters more intimately. Interesting would be: If we consider this under the perspective of general education (in schools, universities, the media), what could help these people to have / get a better idea of this all, and to avoid developing wrong ideas?

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Clete

2/23/2018 11:06:18 am

It appears to me that neither of them has the scientific knowledge or background to conduct anything close to this kind of primary research. They also seem unwilling to have another person on the "search team" to present alternative views of their finding. If I were the government entities protecting their possible dig sites, I would be unwilling to allow them to unearth fresh remains. They seem to have no real collection procedures in place to not contaminate any biological remains they would uncover.

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BigNick

2/23/2018 11:20:17 am

I would like to know what his endgame is. If he did not find alien DNA, now or when they were tested two years ago, then the skulls are human and he needs to accept that. If he is looking for Nephilem, then he needs to look elsewhere.

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An Over-Educated Grunt

2/23/2018 11:25:37 am

Short of discovering explicitly non-terrestrial DNA, which seems unlikely because it'd still have to combine with human chromosomes, how would this advance their claim for a non-human origin rather than alternative explanations like, off the top of my head, a local "sacred" bloodline with particular genetic markers, like the Habsburg chin but more extreme? Still seems to me that, even if they prove there's something going on, the parsimonious explanation is just local variation, not angels or aliens.

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Only Me

2/23/2018 11:35:25 am

There is only one universal truth
The love of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who has risen from the dead

Alleluyah !!
Jesus Has Risen !!!

Alleluyah

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An Over-Educated Grunt

2/23/2018 12:28:53 pm

Cool story, bro. Coolest story ever told.

In other news, you're still a shitty imitator and incredibly tiresome. Crawl back to your hole, Time Machine/666/KIF.

Tony "The Throat" Lombrosa

2/23/2018 02:45:35 pm

Just goes to show: Jesus was a carpenter; he gives his followers wood.

J. Raff

2/24/2018 04:39:10 pm

They're anomaly hunting. They're after anything that they perceive to go against the "mainstream". It doesn't matter one whit to them whether it's actually contamination or not, so long as they do just enough to make it appear that they're taking enough precautions to prevent it (they're not).

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Machala

2/24/2018 05:10:20 pm

Jennifer,
I'm afraid that, unlike many of the contributors here, who have at least a rudimentary idea of the serious scientific methods needed to test DNA samples and avoid contamination, the average followers of Marzulli & Co. haven't a clue.
They'll suspend disbelief at the drop of a genome to swallow whatever "shocking" discoveries Marzulli and Gonzales come up with.
The gullibility factor is in their genes.
Marzulli & Co. are and will continue to only pay lip service to proper DNA extraction because the end justifies their means. It doesn't matter if they are largely ignorant, or crassly careless. Their audience doesn't care.

An Over-Educated Grunt

2/24/2018 09:21:05 pm

My point, though, is... Even if they find an anomaly, so what? Finding an anomaly doesn't prove angels or aliens, or even raise the probability of angels or aliens.

Jim

2/25/2018 09:17:11 am

Hollywood Science

J. Raff

2/23/2018 12:59:26 pm

Hi Jason, thanks for speaking with them. I have three major concerns about this before I'll take the results seriously.

First, the ethics of this kind of work: have permissions from descendant communities been obtained? Is there IRB oversight of any kind, even to say that it's exempt?
Second: did they decontaminate the bone with bleach and do the sampling in a laboratory in which no human PCRs have ever been done, all surfaces are bleached and/or irradiated with UV, air is HEPA filtered and positively pressurized, and all instruments are decontaminated and water is guaranteed ultrapure?
Third: Have all participants had their DNA sequenced so we know what mitochondrial haplogroups they belong to?

If they are serious about doing serious research, why not partner with an actual ancient DNA laboratory group who has experience in the extremely difficult protocols required to avoid contamination?

The assistant for the most part does not use any mask or head covering whatsoever, at one point (15min 13 sec mark) she is using a bare hand.
They have some unprotected random dude wandering around the "lab".(8:42)
Someone brought a coffee cup in and plunked it down in the middle of the work table. You can see the business end of one of their dremel bits making contact with it (8:46)
Should they be using a high speed dremel to drill bone right over their work surface ? wouldn't that spray minute particles all over everything ?

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J. Raff

2/24/2018 04:40:33 pm

Yeah, no way is that even remotely close to what would need to be done to prevent contamination. Ugh.

Doc Rock

2/25/2018 12:11:53 am

Probably not a question that would answer truthfully, not that much truth can be expected from them, but I wonder what the total head count would be of people who have been in close enough proximity to the samples to constitute contamination risks?

Jim

2/25/2018 01:05:17 am

Doc,,, they say that they went outside the supposed sterile area to change suits after every skull and used compressed air to blow anything off of themselves.
In other words they went out into an unsterile environment and blew crap all over the place then returned to the "sterile" area most likely contaminated.
They claim they get around 100 museum visitors a day so there could be thousands of different peoples DNA in the museum.

Jim

2/24/2018 03:10:13 am

Also of note is the "Lab" where the collections took place is the museum in Paracas where Foerster is the assistant director.

That's the problem with these fringe people. If they were serious in their search, they would partner with serious scientists and laboratories, and people doing actual research on the subject. I've got no problem that individuals want to genuinely try to test an absurd hypothesis if they take the right measures to achieve their goal. That want, if they fail to find a conclusive result, at least useful data is gathered that can help to grasp better knowledge about the Paracas for other researchers. But unfortunately, they seems to have their own conclusion (not hypothesis) and just try to do just enough to say they did their homework. I'm puzzled they didn't care about available researches done on Paracas... Gosh. If you like a subject, you read everything to can and try to find stuff other researchers didn't study or overlooked and that could be relevant to your hypothesis. Even if they had the best DNA collection practices, their conclusions would be worthless since they aren't unable (or unwilling) to place the results in a larger context...

I think you asked some really key questions related to the osteology, particularly what controls have they looked at? Which apparently they didn't. This might not have been something they intentionally avoided, but rather a natural bias.

And I'm writing Jennifer's points on the DNA collection down for future reference. It's not something I've had the opportunity to do as yet, but the protocols and methods are definitely worth understanding for future critiques.

The one or two things I'd add that you might ask is related somewhat to Jennifer's question about the IRB involvement. And that's, what level of support or consultation do they have with descendant populations in the region? And what dating do they have for the material they're getting DNA sampling performed on? I don't think we have a good understanding on when, precisely, the practice of Artificial Cranial Modification ended in that part of the world. I may have continued or experienced a revival past the period of European contact.

And one last question comes to mind--something they'll need to work into their theoretical framework should they formulate one: if there's a genetic reason for "elongated skulls" why do we not see naturally elongated skulls in modern times?

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J. Raff

2/24/2018 04:36:33 pm

I've actually thought about doing a mini workshop at the SAAs or something for archaeologists wanting to collect samples in the field for aDNA research. One of these years I may get around to proposing it. Carl, if you'd like to email me I can give you a literature on sampling protocols.

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Peter de Geus

2/23/2018 02:18:44 pm

Jennifer's point about partnering with actual professionals and actual experts is key. In other words, have professionals do the work from start to finish. I'd caution both Jennifer and Carl not to get dragged into this as targets. "We did what the experts said" is not what you want to hear if they attempt this again. The key is that the work has to be done by experts, not the Marzulli gang.

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J. Raff

2/24/2018 04:33:20 pm

Yeah, I'm not interested in validating their work. Doing ancient DNA research isn't about checking off a list of protocols--there's so much judgement and care required that only a fully trained, experienced researcher should do it. Also, what frustrates me is that we do know what ancient people from this region look like genetically thanks to Lars Fehren-Schmitz's excellent work. These guys are destroying the remains of human beings for no good scientific purpose. It's really sad.

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Rackham

2/26/2018 12:04:55 am

Jennifer, you mention works has already been carried on Paracas people. Were some elongated skulls also included in these researches. I ask, because it would be quite ironic if the work had already be done by experts, but grossly ignored willingly or not by Marzulli's team. Also, it came to my mind even if there was contamination, if "alien DNA" or anything extremely "out of this world" was in the sample, it would have probably shown up amidst the sea of contamination. It would be like the proverbial sore thumb in the data.

Bob Jase

2/23/2018 02:43:24 pm

All well & good but have they found the full-blooded aliens to donate their dna yet? I mean, you need something authentic to compare the Paracas dna to.

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Tom mellett

2/23/2018 02:43:27 pm

But Jason, you *ARE* a weasel! It is your definitive Power Animal. Does this web page not describe your innate weaselness? So, own your weasel totem. Be proud of it! Who knows, it might lead to your own show on the History Channel or NatGeo and would be a perfect followup to that very popular Meerkat series on NatGeo.

https://mara-gamiel.blogspot.com/2008/01/power-animals-weasel.html

The weasel as a totem animal relates to alacrity and observation. The weasel's power of observation is tremendous, and not much goes unnoticed to those who have this totem.

The weasel encourages a higher level of observation - where observing and intuition combine to provide the observer with qualities of prediction of outcomes.

Weasel animal totems are also quick as winks, and symbolize quick-witted characteristics.

Jennifer is very aware and sensitive to the issues pertaining to descendant population involvement and permissions - something that Team Marzulli have disregarded either through ignorance or a cavalier approach to DNA research. I doubt a straight answer can be obtained from them on this issue.

I can tell you that here in Ecuador, as well as in Peru, this is a VERY touchy subject between the indigenous peoples, the governments, and the extraños and intrusos.

To say that Marzulli, Gonzales, and Foerster exhibited about as much sensitivity to these problems, as the proverbial bull in a china shop, would be an understatement !
In the simplest terms, they have managed to piss off a lot of people - from legitimate scholars and academics, the government authorities, to los ciudadanos of the Andes.

I shudder to think what further havoc they will create, in their quixotic quest, to prove an absurd fantasy.

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Uncle Ron

2/23/2018 03:20:24 pm

I would like to compliment Messrs. Marzulli, Gonzales, et.al., and Jason, for engaging in this conversation in the first place. The best outcome of this exchange might be that some "fringe" writers begin to understand WHY we mainstream types are so critical of their work and claims.

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An Anonymous Nerd

2/23/2018 07:19:53 pm

Ultimately it comes down to people wanting to look at and discover things without wanting to understand, through careful study, what they're looking at. And to be able to tell normal from weird.

-An Anonymous Nerd

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Doc Rock

2/24/2018 12:57:19 am

Is someone with an MD who specializes in preventative medicine qualified to assess osteological anomalies?

Is someone with an M.A, in geography qualified to assess osteological anomalies?

How come a research team with multiple members represents a wide range of different training except for the specific fields required for this type of investigation?

Why does it even matter what answers are given since anything that they come up with would represent a sort of academic equivalent of the fruit of the poison tree argument used to discount evidence in the legal realm?

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Joe Scales

2/24/2018 11:11:17 am

"Why does it even matter what answers are given since anything that they come up with would represent a sort of academic equivalent of the fruit of the poison tree argument used to discount evidence in the legal realm? "

Not the best comparison really. "Fruit of the poison tree" evidence in a criminal case is excluded due to the illegal means of procuring it. Otherwise, it's generally damn good evidence.

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Doc Rock

2/24/2018 11:59:00 am

That's why I qualified the statement with the "sort of." It is always shaky to apply legal concepts to scientific inquiry. But in this case it rather nicely illustrates the problematic nature of the Nephilim crowd's willingness to act in ways that are questionable in terms of ethics, scientific objectivity, and legality in the course of their investigation but then expect any end result or claims that they produce to be taken seriously.

Joe Scales

2/24/2018 09:35:01 pm

"Sort of" only works if you're enamored by the sound of fruit from a poisonous tree in its general sense and ignore its legal meaning. Unfortunately, when you make a parallel to a term of art as specifically used in the legal realm, you ought to know what it actually means. It's simply a bad analogy on your part. If you're taken at your word, it would seem you're maintaining that Marzulli and his group should be rejected because they're unqualified, even though their evidence is sound otherwise. But that's only important if you value what concepts actually mean, rather than how they may be bastardized.

Crash55

2/24/2018 03:07:38 pm

Did you happen to see the recent Nova episode First Face of America (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/first-face-america.html)?

Near the end of the episode, It went over how many different groups crossed into the Americas and then intermarried to produce a unique DNA group. So a basic question would be do these skulls also show this group or are they missing it?

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Jim

2/24/2018 04:17:31 pm

Jason,, You could ask if they got a DNA sample for comparison from Chase Kloetzke.
She is seen throughout the sampling process not wearing a mask or any head or hair covering. She is also seen using an ungloved hand. It would seem to me she would be a likely source of contamination.
In this Feb 22 offering from Marzulli:

At the32:04 mark of the video Mondo Gonzales speaking to Marzulli says "You and I as well as Richard gave our DNA for comparison". The Richard I assume refers to Richard Shaw, their filmmaker.
What about Chase, the most likely candidate for contamination ?

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Jim

2/25/2018 10:11:22 pm

Chase Kloetzke.

http://www.chasekloetzke.com/about.html

I guess this course is what qualifies her to prepare their sterile lab in the middle of a public building. Also prepares her to be an assistant in the collection of ancient DNA

http://home.iape.org/classes.html#full-class

Now consider, neither Marzulli nor Gonzales has even this pitiful amount of training.

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Doc Rock

2/24/2018 09:47:08 pm

Joe,

I think my point and logic stand up fine, thank you. On the other hand, you might want to take a deep breathe and reconsider your assertion that evidence obtained as the fruit of a poison tree is generally good evidence apart from the fact that it was obtained illegally. That statement would make a junior pre-law major weep.

I'm not gonna get lured down another one of these rabbit holes and yet again end up far afield from the specific topic being discussed. So, will leave it at that, although I suspect that you won't.

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Joe Scales

2/24/2018 10:02:38 pm

You're out of your element here Doc. Might want to stick to rocks next time. That or just say, "my bad Joe", and move on.

Good sports are so hard to come by these days...

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Doc Rock

2/25/2018 12:51:37 am

I'm probably gonna regret wasting another two minutes bothering with this, but I guess poking my nose just a bit inside the rabbit hole before bed time won't hurt. You do realize that the fruit of the poison tree analogy is not the exclusive property of legal discourse. It is just most commonly associated with the legal profession, which is why I referenced it as such. But, the concept has also been used, in much the fashion that I used it, in published works in philosophy, international development, and journalism, just to name a few examples. So your assertion that it is some sort of intellectual faux paus to use the concept outside of a strictly legal realm is sophomoric. A cursory amount of research and reading would work wonders in terms of educating you about this.

I might suggest that you would be better served by sticking to doing just about anything that doesn't involve trying to argue with me. (Pulls head out of rabbit hole and waves goodbye).

Joe Scales

2/25/2018 11:13:37 am

So much for leaving it at that...

What you actually said was :

" Why does it even matter what answers are given since anything that they come up with would represent a sort of academic equivalent of the fruit of the poison tree argument used to discount evidence in the legal realm?"

And now, after you restart the conversation away from the original string, you claim you meant fruit of the poisonous tree in its general sense? In philosophy, journalism, etc.? After specifically narrowing it down to the legal concept? My, the intellectually dishonest lengths some folks will go to save face on an Internet board. I did not admonish you for some faux pas in using this term of art outside of its legal meaning. I admonished you for incorrectly using it specifically in its legal sense.

I found your original comment rather ironic, and let's face it... you had no idea how the concept truly worked in "the legal realm". You just parroted the language, thinking you were making some clever rebuke of those on the fringe. That's why you're ducking for cover now. And that's why you came back despite your rather impotent kiss-off.

Just a tip here. I wouldn't put much weight on the opinions of junior prelaw students for your nanny-boo-boos. Why do you think actual lawyers use the fruit of the poison tree argument? They do so to keep out evidence, and generally good evidence at that, which will convict their client. Ask one next time before making an ass out of yourself.

Americanegro

2/25/2018 12:10:05 pm

Doc,

You talk about "the fruit of the poison tree analogy". Joe is talking about the term "the fruit of the poison[ous] tree". I would love to hear some examples of use of the term and/or the analogy in "published works in philosophy, international development, and journalism". I'll go first: "Idi Amin gave me a beautiful bone bowl but I couldn't keep it because it was fruit of the poison[ous] tree."

For uses of the term, examples should be pre-1939 which is when the term was first used in law.

Hanslune

2/25/2018 11:06:37 am

Ah, well done Jason.

My comments are similar to those above. What they should do is hire experts, 2 or 3 teams to do the evaluations and testing separately.

They themselves should not even consider doing it themselves. There lack of expertise will invalidate anything they might find.

Hire experts in physical anthropology to look at the skeletons and skulls to determine if the bones are out of the normal range for skulls shaped by outside pressure.

How would they know if DNA was 'alien or angel' what they would probably get is an 'error'.

They are commended for getting rid of Brien Foerster whose middle name I believe is 'faker'.

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Doc Rock

2/26/2018 04:11:31 am

The idea of dropping a team member under these types of circumstances at this point in the process probably represents a too little too late. Doesn't fill me with confidence about taking a bite off the apple from that tree (sorry peanut gallery, but it stays) when you have them trying to put a positive spin on dismissing a key person who seems to be officially affliliated with the facility that is in control of the process.

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Joe Scales

2/26/2018 10:16:05 am

"Doesn't fill me with confidence about taking a bite off the apple from that tree (sorry peanut gallery, but it stays)..."

Must have gotten your head stuck in your hole Doc. Doesn't seem you want to let this go. But no matter how many times you care to revisit your poor analogy, and the intellectually dishonest lengths you will go in attempting to justify it, you're still not above ground. My advice to you? When you're in such a hole... quit digging.

Jim

2/26/2018 10:44:16 am

They don't need Foerster any more, they already tested his skulls and used his museum as their lab. He has supplied them his contacts. Used and now abused for sensationalizing the results. (its not like he said it was demon fairy DNA)
I would imagine Marzulli now gets the bulk of Foersters piece of the pie.

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Doc Rock

2/26/2018 12:04:32 pm

When even a bunch like that drops you for conduct unbecoming it has got to be pretty bad. Kind of like being low man on the totem pole in a halfway house full of registered sex offenders.

I guess my issue would be to what extent he may still have his finger in the poison apple pie if there continues to be research in a facility where he is associated. It is one thing to drop somebody from a research team and they have nothing further to do with it. It is another if circumstances permit them to stick around as a behind the scenes player. Kind of hard to keep up with what is being said with all the chatter coming from the children's table here.

Not a good sign either way in terms of credibility regarding his involvement in past or present..

Joe Scales

2/26/2018 01:16:59 pm

Oh, don't hold a grudge Doc. Heck, I didn't even get on you for thinking pre-law was a major...

Tom mellett

2/26/2018 12:05:05 pm

********* LATE BREAKING MARZULLI NEWS!!!! *********

Later tonight (Monday evening into the wee hours of Tuesday morning), the one and only LA Marzulli will be the guest of George Noory hosting the Coast to Coast AM radio program. You can read about it on the C2C website here with the blurb I copy below

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2018/02/26

Author and researcher L.A. Marzulli shares the results from the DNA testing on the elongated skulls of Paracas, discovered by anthropologist Rick Woodward. The results raise some interesting questions - are we looking at a news subspecies of humans? Did these "people" travel to the New World thousands of years before Columbus set foot in the Americas?

**********

Jason, I wish to make a personal appeal to you. Please consider yourself becoming a guest on the C2C program. I know you have had TV exposure but I think you would shine much better on radio, because, let’s face it, you have a “face for radio.” (But not for TV)

May I now give a little perspective on LA Marzulli’s appearance tonight. Look at the audience size for C2C.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coast_to_Coast_AM

Created and originally hosted by Art Bell, the program is now hosted on most nights by George Noory. According to estimates by Talkers Magazine, Coast to Coast AM has a cumulative weekly audience of around 2.75 million unique listeners listening for at least five minutes, making it the most listened-to program in its time slot. Today, the program is heard on more than 600 stations in the U.S., Canada, Australia and Guam.

=======

I know the audience size is way down from the 10 million it was when Art Bell had the program, but 2.75 million is not chopped liver. And how many millions of readers do you have for this blog? On a program like C2C you could help counter the Marzulli Effect. Do you realize that Seth Shostak and Michael Shermer, for two of several examples, are recurring guests on C2C, so the skeptic view is welcomed.

Well, you learn something new every day, eh Doc. But is it truly a major if to do so you have to major in something else as well? Seems more like a sales pitch than an actual field of study with the school in question; and certainly the exception rather than the rule. But cheers to you anyway Doc. Times, they are a changin'. .

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Doc Rock

2/26/2018 03:28:23 pm

Like I said, you are better served by sticking to anything that does not involve trying to argue with me. Americannegro learned the same when he tried to provoke a confrontation with me, made an ass out of himself, and ate a big piece of humble pie. He failed to take advantage of a teachable moment. You have too. I'm not going to waste any more time with either if you idiots. From now on, you can chatter all that you want over at the kiddy table. I'll be talking to the adults. Later, small fry.

Joe Scales

2/26/2018 04:32:18 pm

Well, so much for being a good sport. You find one school which basically makes you major in something else, and then calls it a prelaw major, and that's a teachable moment? Well, unless you actually were familiar with the school in question before our interaction, and might have thought that prelaw as a major was the norm at other colleges (which it isn't), you pulled that one out of your rabbit hole. Come on Doc. Admit it. Or shall you pretend otherwise?

Americanegro

2/27/2018 05:18:22 pm

Calling something "pre-law" doesn't make it a major.

"Like I said, you are better served by sticking to anything that does not involve trying to argue with me. Americannegro learned the same when he tried to provoke a confrontation with me, made an ass out of himself, and ate a big piece of humble pie."

You mean that time I thought I was reading one publication but was actually reading another? Yeah, I suffered prolapse for a week after that one. You really reamed me a new one. I can still remember the incessant pumping.

"Law schools don’t require one specific major, instead they seek evidence of a rich, liberal arts education. They’ll expect you to have strong skills in three major areas: comprehension and expression in words; critical understanding of the human institutions and values with which the law deals; and creative power in thinking."

That's right ladies and gentlemen in pre-law you will learn comprehension of words. On the plus side there's an LSAT prep course which seems to be the one thing that sets it aside.

Joe Scales

2/28/2018 10:55:58 am

Hey, I'm coming around to Doc's point about not trying to argue with him. Considering his blatant intellectual dishonesty, he's actually doing the fringe a service if he is in fact a college professor. How can you argue with someone who provides teachable moments by clinging to bad analogies and denials of academic realities simply to talk down to others in his zeal to be recognized as the best guy to pile on the fringe profiteers on a chat board. At least I think he's a professor. He spoke of "my university" and "archaeologists from my department" in another thread. Perhaps he's the janitor. Though if he cleans floors as well as he cleans clocks, he'd still be contributing to the decay of our institutions of higher learning.

Tom mellett

2/27/2018 08:10:07 am

Here is the summary of LA Marzulli’s appearance on Coast to Coast AM radio last night. (There was no mention of Jason the Weasel.)

https://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2018/02/26

In the first half, author and researcher L.A. Marzulli discussed the mysterious elongated skulls of Paracas, Peru. Anthropologist Rick Woodward and others found the heads had structural oddities that seemed to suggest genetic differences from normal humans, and Marzulli recently held a press conference in Los Angeles to announce their testing results (view related images/video).

Though some suggest the skulls are merely the result of intentional cranial modification, Marzulli and some of his co-researchers such as medical doctor Dr. Michael Alday believe they may represent a new subspecies of humans.

"Based on my limited testing, " said Marzulli, "I would say some of them may have 25% to 30% larger cranial capacity than a normal human skull." If he had to guess, "I'd say we were looking at the remnants of the Nephilim," the fallen angels described in the Bible, who he considers to be "nefarious inter dimensional entities."

The theory is that these beings fled the Middle East around 3,500 years ago, arriving in the New World much earlier than Columbus and other explorers, he continued, adding that Josephus described the Nephilim as having countenances so different than regular folk that they were terrifying to look at.

(Related video) Here the thrill-packed vimeo of their quest showing how rigorously they followed proper scientific protocols to prevent contamination of the samples, which may prove they are descendants of the Nephilim. (Background music worthy of Indiana Jones.)
https://www.coasttocoastam.com/article/l-a-marzulli-skull-images-2-26-18/

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Jim

2/27/2018 11:49:35 am

"Based on my limited testing, " said Marzulli, "I would say some of them may have 25% to 30% larger cranial capacity than a normal human skull." If he had to guess, "I'd say we were looking at the remnants of the Nephilim," the fallen angels described in the Bible, who he considers to be "nefarious inter dimensional entities."

So all the skullduggery and botched DNA sampling resulted In a guess ??? And the guess is exactly his preconceived notion of what he wants them to be ? That they are "nefarious inter dimensional entities", Nephilim !

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Hanslune

2/27/2018 12:13:49 pm

Of course.

The purpose of the fringe is to never settle a question. The primary goal is to do whatever is necessary to retain the 'possibility' of some outlandish idea.

The possibility of something being true is good enough for them and to make sure facts don't interfere they spend a great deal of timing muddying the water as much as possible.

If one has the financial resources that this bunch claims, then they could contract the work out to professionals. If you have good data then it can be demonstrated as such by pros, as opposed to having the claims come from a "team" consisting of chiropractors and geographers. Even some preliminary findings that suggested something of legitimate interest could be used as the basis for applying for large grants or simply to raise even more money from private donors.

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Machala

2/27/2018 01:13:04 pm

I'm willing to bet dollars to doughnuts that the $150K came from either Discovery/History Channel pre-production funding with the idea that if the testing proved anything, it could be promoted through HC programing, or alternatively, someone putting up the "seed money" with the idea of eventually producing and marketing the results on HC.

Problem is, that you've got a right confederacy of dunces and thieves running the show.

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Hanslune

2/27/2018 01:28:22 pm

One correction: It should read

'The Confederacy of dunces and the Republic of thieves'.

They certainly aren't going to do anything that might close off that money fountain - I wonder how much they get pay themselves for being diligent researchers? lol

JIm

2/27/2018 01:32:44 pm

Dollars to doughnuts ?
Donut 1 Pc. $0.99

https://www.fastfoodmenuprices.com/dunkin-donuts-prices/?redir

Hahaha,,,sorry Machala, I just had to.

Hanslune

2/27/2018 01:25:39 pm

.....but that would break the fringe rule of never ending the possibility - of course if nothing was found by the professionals they could then play the 'they were pressured to make a false report' card. This restores possibility but it now a lesser possibility.

What they want to do is this:

Do as little as possible, just enough to keep the possibility alive while pretending to be working hard towards answering the question but never doing so. Pye did that for what 15 years with the star child?

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Doc Rock

2/27/2018 02:55:30 pm

In other instances they just let things fizzle out and then move on to something else. One minute they claim to be literally standing right on top of some discovery that any day now will smash all paradigms. They just need some more time or money or logistical support. But then a year later they aren't even talking about it because they are selling their current project. Amazing at how easily these folks will abandon one sure thing discovery that would make them famous to move onto another.

Wayne May went from claiming to be right on top of Burrows Cave to claiming that some huge temple complex was buried right across the river from Nauvoo. Now he is on something else.

I guess they count on fringe consumers having a short attention span and their uncanny ability to lose interest in something as soon as something else shiny is waved in front of them

Jim

3/1/2018 02:05:50 pm

Marzulli Has his latest broadcast out on their "research"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5MQUAYDdPA

Save yourself some head against the wall banging conspiracy nonsense and skip to the 29 minute mark.

What is conspicuous by its absence is any discussion of the DNA evidence or any discussion of their DNA testing. It seems to be only mentioned at the 40:38 mark. My hearing is not great anymore and the sound quality is somewhat muddy, could someone listen and confirm that Woodward Says
"The DNA evidence that we thought we had",,, what ??? oops.
The CC says "that we currently have"
Woodward says that the foramen condyle (hole at the base of a skull to accommodate the attachment of the neck/spine) in one of their elongated skulls is a whopping 1 centimeter farther back.
He does not elaborate what this is compared to. Sounds like he compared one replica "normal" skull to one replica elongated skull there was a centimeter difference and viola Nephilim ! Because, you know, all skulls should be exactly the same !
Woodward also says that if this 1 centimeter difference was caused by headboarding or manipulation it would kill the subject, he got this info from yet another chiropractor.
Next up, these people were extremely isolated, they were extremely isolated in Peru, they were extremely isolated in the Middle east. He goes on to explain that these extremely isolated people were well known all over the world, and that is why people all over world started skull manipulations. To copy these high status extremely isolated ones.

If you listen to this, use an umbrella, the crap fallout is extremely heavy.
At any rate it would appear that they are sweeping the DNA tests under the carpet now.

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Jim

3/1/2018 04:41:22 pm

On listening more at the 40:38 mark Woodward does say "currently have", sorry, my mistake.

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Doc Rock

3/1/2018 05:17:33 pm

Well, they have DNA. I'm hesitant to think of it as evidence, although in the fringe world pretty much anything can get pushed as evidence.

Americanegro

3/1/2018 05:21:54 pm

Chiropractors are the Gwyneth Paltrows of healthcare.

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Jim

3/1/2018 06:12:59 pm

Woodward said he asked Dr Pete Gregory for advice, Gregory told him to look for epigenetics. He didn't take the Gregory's advice because he decided epigenetics had no bearing due to these people were so isolated. He later contradicted himself by saying that they were interbreeding with other local peoples.
I know little of epigenetics, a quick read on wiki tells me he knows even less.
He then decided to consult medical people, and who better to consult on matters of DNA than chiropractors ?

J.Raff

3/2/2018 01:41:03 pm

@Jim

Oh my god, that's what they're saying about epigenetics? That's stunningly wrong. Epigenetics is just chemical modifications of DNA related to which genes are expressed ('turned on or off'). EVERYBODY "has" epigenetics: it's simple gene regulation. It doesn't matter whether people were isolated or not, nor is he likely to get epigenetic patterns from ancient individuals anyway. I know someone who is doing pioneering work on ancient epigenomes, but it's really really experimental right now.

My head is exploding.

Jim

3/2/2018 11:14:23 pm

J.Raff,, Thanks for the explanation, that clears it up for me.
If you haven't read Jasons new blog entry, he covers this and the rest of Marzulli's interview with Woodward. (it gets even worse)

You are always more likely to get the answer you want if you speak with someone with as little information on the subject as yourself - especially if you are looking for confirmation of your own beliefs.

Always looking to keep open 'possibilities'. An expert might just shut down your belief with facts.

I wonder how may decades they will be able to keep this idea spinning around in the fringe stratosphere.

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