ESPN Report: Rollins Needs to Lead or Leave

Sources tell ESPN’s Buster Olney that the Phillies organization is fed up with Jimmy Rollins and would like to go in a new direction at shortstop. A source also tells Olney it about the work ethic:

“…sources indicate that some in influential positions in the Phillies’ organization want Rollins to lead, by investing himself more thoroughly in daily work and setting a strong example for others. If Rollins isn’t going to do that, the sentiment of some is that the team would be better off moving him as soon as possible.”

Basically from the time Rollins signed a new contract with the Phillies, he’s had to field questions about lifting his no-trade clause, something he will not do. J-Roll has been quoted as wanting to break Mike Schmidt’s franchise record for hits, and topping other categories as well. If/when broken, the records seem to hold little value within the hearts of the fans as the team has recently been called “terrible” by scouts around baseball.

At the beginning of last season, I asked him if he would speak up more because so many of the other veteran voices were either injured or gone and flat out, he said no. Rollins said that he’s always been this way, so why change now.

Manager Ryne Sandberg benched Rollins for a few games last week, perhaps sending a message to the former MVP. But Sandberg said that wasn’t so, that he’s just monitoring his veterans playing days.

71 Comments

Its a business. Jimmy knew that when he made the team. You dont produce, you get benched, traded or released. Time to cut him loose for the better of the team long term. Jimmy’s best days are gone. Time for Ruben Amaro to grow up and stop living in the past. This just might light a fire under the other easy riders.

If you want to take that attitude, then theres plenty others that should be gone; every time certain members have signed an un-Godly amount of $$ contract NONE of them have produced for what they get paid; so lets not put it ALL on Jimmy, there’s PLENTY of blame to go around !!!!!!!!!

It’s oh so different when we’re winning. J-Roll, kinda like Rickey Henderson is probably a fun teammate and when in their prime, an extraordinary player. But sometimes that me-first mentality doesn’t always work with aging teams desperately in need of some new life or in this case, a heartbeat. Jimmy still has the potential to be a veteran leader, but he is paid, has his rights and doesn’t need to do anything he doesn’t want to. Despite, his bosses asking this of him. He basically has more leverage than RAJ should have ever given him with that dumb contract.

Amen,they should cut their loses NOW before it’s too late for this season.Trade or cut him. Don’t give him a chance to just break records.TEAM FIRST beside Gavis is better at this time. from a 50year fan

A manager needs to recognize the talents his people have and use them wisely. Asking Rollins to be a vocal leader is like asking Chooch to steal more bases. It’s not in either player’s wheelhouse, and never will be, and THAT IS OK.

Forcing a change at this point and creating conflict where there is no reason to is not going to help the team win any more games.

And I don’t really get that Utley, Howard, Chooch or any other veteran on the club is a vocal leader and would guess that older teams tend not to be abundant in rah-rah style leadership. Thirty-plus veterans know what their roles are and lead by example to the younger players. The ones who know how to impart their knowledge (and teaching is its own skill) likely offer a rare bonus to young players. If Jimmy is helping Maikel Franco become a better player then both players will be that much more valuable to the club this season.

Great people lead by example, that is what Chase Utley & Roy Halliday do. With that said, does Jimmy do this? I recall him jogging down to first last year & getting put on the bench by Charlie. You will just never see some players do that, period. That is the difference btwn Jimmy and Chase. Chase is the earliest one at practice. I can guess that what has been said is that Jimmy is not as hard working at practice and is more of a jokester and socialite. Chase might say hi to another player or mgr before the game, but you will never catch him starting a conversation with someone on the other team when he is on the field. It’s called focus.

It would seem that both sides are showing little or no flexibility. Jimmy seems to be saying I don’t needed to change and Ryno is saying his work ethic is unacceptable. I see this all ending badly for the Phillies and Jimmy. I’m having a really hard time generating any enthusiasm for watching the Phillies. Frankly, I’m more excited about the upcoming NBA lottery and draft.

I’m pretty sure a 3 year deal was right on line with his value to the franchise considering there were really no replacements. The problem is that the Phillies don’t seem to believe in grooming their stars of the future anymore. So when players who have 10/5 full no trade rights decide they wanna be divas, the organization has no choice but to accommodate their egos.

Anyone can be replaced. They could have easily replaced him with a good defensive shortstop and hit them eighth. Then use the money he got to find a power hitting right handed bat for the outfield or 3B. It isn’t about what position you play, it is about where you hit in the lineup. Rollins production in the lineup where he is hitting is not worth the money he is being paid.

Jimmy’s status as “team leader” was always overblown. I hate how he’s shown up to every game looking like he’s attending a funeral the last two years. He used to be my favorite player, but I find watching his daily demeanor to be so off putting anymore. Moving on would clearly be better for both parties at this point.

But the Phillies knew what he was when they signed him. They knew his style of hitting wasn’t going to age well. At the end of the day, you have all these reports of guys the Phillies would love to trade, but can’t because of whatever reason. To me, save your ire for the guy who signed all these immovable pieces.

I happen to believe that the team, and probably Rollins himself, are better off with a change in direction. That doesn’t mean that I hate Rollins. We can wax poetic about 2008 for another decade if we want, but the reality of the game and of life is that time keeps moving forward. This is a team that’s going to brutal, and they won’t be significantly worse if someone other than Rollins is playing shortstop this season.

I have no problem with Ryan Howard, he has been hurt and he presses and swings at crap because that is all he sees. He hasn’t had anyone good hitting behind him since Werth left. (Marlon Byrd doesn’t count either) So I have no problem with Howard.

I also have no problem with Werth, he wanted to be here and the Phillies paid Lee instead. I don’t understand why fans have an issue with him. (and not for nothing, it looked like he was all about the money over winning when we singed with the Nats, but looking at it now, what team has won more games since? Probably the Nats)

Rollins on the other hand, he just has a terrible attitude. I don’t hate him but he just needs to go and should have bever been resigned in the first place.
(same with Chooch and Utley and I love both of those guys)

I’ll tell you why I, personally, have a problem with Werth. I understand that he wanted to be in Philly, and we paid Lee instead. That’s the way it goes. I was still prepared to like him, but he acted SO BUTTHURT about the whole thing, saying things about hoping the Phils lost, talking shit about Phillies fans, and generally acting like a huge baby who got his toy taken away from him. Be angry you didn’t get your contract, fine. Talk shit about my team and the fandom? You’re dead to me.

Hey there Don. The question Dinger put out was a good one. How ever the reality is that the 08 WS. win is now going on it’s 6th year. Think about that for a second 6 years ago! A lot of people bring the WS win up. That’s all fine and dandy but winning the WFS 6 years ago does nothing for this team this year. Most of those heroes of that team are no longer here or the ones that are will not perform close to the level of that team. I don’t think it’s hate for them. I think it’s more the fact that people are starting to realize that this team is not very good even with the ones left over from a 6 year old WS win. And I think management has that WS win thingy still in their hearts. It’s time to move on to a different younger group of guys. People always say, well this guy isn’t a J-Roll (meaning Galvis) well hell J-Roll isn’t J-Roll of 6 years ago either. The only ones who are the same would be Hamels and Kendrick. We don’t hate or at least I don’t hate any of those guys, I just think in BB you have to move on at a certain point.

If you don’t think that there are a large portion of Phillies fans that HATE Howard, Rollins, and Werth – you aren’t paying close enough attention.

Regardless of how many years ago – it’s not the player’s fault that they are all older, breaking down … that’s what happens to older players.. look at the GM (and many say the owners forcing his hand to extend Ryan Howard, sign Papelbon, etc).. I agree that the team should have moved on. I was very much in favor of trying to trade parts last year, Utley, Ruiz, Papelbon to start a youth-movement/rebuild ala the 76ers.. but the players on the roster apparently didn’t have enough trade value to warrant a trade.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Cliff Lee gets dealt to a contender at the deadline this year though – this team is going nowhere

I find it funny that people who moan that it’s been 6 years since the Phillies won a World Series and that we should expect more recent results, are the same tired E A G L E S chanting fans every season, and they haven’t won a championship since 1960 – 7 years before the Super Bowl era began!

He is not a leader. When Utley and Howard were hurt to start 2012, the three people the team could have turned to as leaders who have won before (08) were Chooch (who barley speaks English) Victorino (who is hyper goofy) and Rollins. The team was playing poorly and it should have been Rollins that lead that clubhouse but there was no one. His skill set at the plate this stage of his career doesn’t offer anything. Where would a good team hit him? 7th or 8th…maybe…maybe 2nd.

When they signed him he was the best option at short but NOT the best option for the lineup (Victorino should have lead off, hit the new SS 8th and use that money to get a right handed power hitting outfielder.) They did not. Why put all that money into a 2/7/8 hole hitter? Teams need to look at where the player will be hitting in the lineup not what position they play. Even this year signing Chooch. I love him but why pay an 8 or 7 hole hitter all that money? You can find someone cheaper to hit 8th and play solid defense. This is the same mistake they make over and over. Here is who should get paid big money. Top 2 starters, 3, 4, and 5 hole hitter. That is it. I would say lead off hitter but there are very few true lead off hitters like Dykstra was. The production a good team gets out of the other spots in the order can be had with mid range salary guys and young players (another thing the Phillies don’t have)

Not to say this is perfect, obviously there are exceptions, but look around the league (or the good teams). I would be curious to see what the average salary is for spots in the line up. This would be my guide.

1. 7 mil
2. 4 mil
3. 15
4. 20
5. 15
6. 8
7. 4
8. 2

Bench
1B – 3
OF – 3
Utl – 1
OF – 1
C – 1

SP1 – 25
SP2 – 18
SP3 – 13
SP 4 – 6
SP 5 – 1

CLoser – 6
Set Up – 3
Lefty – 3
RP – 2
RP 1
Rp 1
Long 1

$160 million well spent

In summary, they pay Rollins too much to do what he is doing on the field, if he isn’t doing anything off the field to make up for his lack of production, then he is hurting the team.

LOL @Phillies FO. Amaro or whatever other dumb ass in our FO can continue to be little bitches and leak stories like this to the media, but JStroll has them by the short and curlies. They never should have given him a 4 year deal to him in the first place (yes, I know it’s 3 with a vesting 4th, but he’ll hit that vesting option easily unless he’s on the DL for two months. I’m not picking on JStroll here…I don’t think they should have resigned Chooch or Utley, either.

I guess I missed the Philliesnation.com article on MLB scouts calling the Phillies terrible? This season has disaster written all over it. On the bright side, maybe we’ll get rid of Ruin and whoever is in charge of our atrocious farm system after this team loses over 90 games this year with the 3rd highest payroll in baseball. ). I’d trade every player over 30 I could and start rebuilding NOW. Why drag this out for two more years?

Damn Nick, excellent research. You must be a lawyer or librarian. I would never argue with a man who does such in-depth research. I also agree with your position on Rollins.
How can I argue with the facts?

Sorry Nick, but most of what you are writing in this thread is based on nothing. Importance of the spot of a certain hitter in the line-up is way overblown, as research shows. And you also forget about the value of defense. In 2012 Jimmy was a very valuable player. In 2013 it was a down year by his standards but still an acceptable year for a shortstop. For 2014 there is a general consensus among the forecasting systems that he will provide appr. 2 WAR, which is exactly worth what the contract is paying him. So while I also prefer seeing players like Chase Utley the bottom line is still the performance on the field.

Phiiles fan from Germany, a team needs balance and there is none of that here. For the last couple years they have had a team full of guys who produce like 2, 7 and 8 hole hitters. In 2012, Victorino, Rollins, Polanco, Pierre and Ruiz. All of them started. On a good team, where do you hit all those guys? If Rollins and Victorino are hitting one and two, where do you hit Polanco and Pierre? 7 and 8? I’ll excuse Chooch because he unexpectedly had a good year. Those other 4 just were all too similar in the type of production they offered. If you let Rollins go your offense is this

Victorino
Polanco
Utley
Howard
Carlos Quinten or someone other LF that hits with power
Pence
Chooch
Galvis or a vet that was available like Keppinger

Glavis would have gave you the same defense Rollins gave. The power hitting left fielder would have given you equal defense that Peire gave but would have offered something different offensively.
(this was also the year Utley was hurt so Pence could have hit 3rd as well. Have Rollins as the three hole or five hole hitter was not a good fit for him. (and he pouted about it)

So while my post isn’t based in facts, it makes sense. You can’t have too many players in the lineup that offer the same type of production. Let’s look at this years lineup.

1. Revere (better hitting two or eight because he doesn’t walk enough, but they are stuck with him at leadoff. I like his speed and would like him at 2)
2. Rollins (.250 hitter with a poor OBA. Should be hitting 8th on a good team.)
3. Utley (love him but don’t expect the power from the 3 hole. He should be hitting 2 or 6 or 7)
4. Howard (should be hitting 5th because he is so slow now)
5. Byrd (seriously, Howard will get nothing to hit because Byrd doesn’t scare pitchers. They will pitch around Howard like they have been doing since Werth left. Byrd should be hitting 6 or 7 on a good team)
6. Brown (should be hitting higher but too many lefties. I’d have no problem with him hitting 2 or maybe even 3 or 5)
7. Ruiz (he is fine here)
8. Asche or Franco (tough to hit a rookie 8th because they will get pitched around with the pitcher behind them. Franco needs to see fastballs and should be hitting highers like 6 or 7)

So this lineup stinks. They players aren’t bad, it just isn’t a good blend and that is important.

“You can’t have too many players in the lineup that offer the same type of production.” — Balance, and (as P f f G said) lineup order, are not nearly as important as the actual performance you get from each player. 2012 is an odd year to target since Rollins was quite arguably the second best shortstop on the planet that year, behind only Desmond.

I seriously doubt that Galvis+new LF would have been anywhere near as good as Rollins+Pierre were that year.

“2. Rollins (.250 hitter with a poor OBA. Should be hitting 8th on a good team.)” — I think you’d agree the last part is irrelevant.

“So this lineup stinks. The players aren’t bad, it just isn’t a good blend and that is important.”

The lineup will be average at best, but I disagree with the last sentence. The “blend” matters very little, but the players just aren’t that good.

How was Rollins the 2nd best shortstop in 2012? Because he put up numbers? He actually had a pretty poor July and August (.208 and .213) and added 8 meaningless home runs in September. Even if you look at his total number, what does he do for you. Is he a get on base guy that hits at the top of the order? Becuase his OBA was poor for a top of the order guy. Or is he a middle of the lineup run producer because even with his 23 Hr his 68 RBI is low.

Now, in fairness, if he is a leadoff hitter than the 23 HR and 68 RBI are pretty decent from that spot but that leads me to my original point. Too many guys who do the same thing. Why was he hitting 3rd when Utley was hurt? Because you have too many of the same guy and no balance. You can’t believe the team is better with Rollins hitting 3rd can you? He pouted and was horrible from the 3 hole.

Then, going back to my original post, you allocate all this money to Jimmy in the 1 or 2 whole and who do you have hitting 5th since Werth left? Ben Fransisco, John Mayberry Jr, Delmon Young….that is where I would invest my money. In the 5 hole. I can spend less money on a leadoff hitter that will hit 250 with a .316 OBA average. You can’t compare Rollins to other shortstops, you need to compare him to other leadoff hitters.

The players could be productive on different roles on different teams. Rollins on the Tigers hitting 8th would be awesome for them. Utley hitting 2nd on most teams would be great. Put someone like Revere hitting second behind Marte of the Pirate or Elsbury of the Red Sox would be better than hitting leadoff for the Phillies.

Everyone is out of place in this lineup and being asked to do too much, if asked to do less, they would probably excel at their roles. It is about TEAM not the individuals. You can’t just put individuals in a lineup and think no matter who is in the lineup and where they will all produce the same. It doesn’t work that way and you won’t get the most out of your players. Look at Raul Ibanez. Do you know why he looked finished his last year in Philly? Because he was asked to do to much and put in a position to fail. He has had good years the last couple years because he is in a roll and position that will maximize his ability and teams will get more production out of him. Rollins can do better in a different situation and the Phillies can do better with a different lineup.

As “Germany” and I said earlier (and research shows) lineup spots matter some, but not nearly as much as the total production a player delivers. Whether Rollins leads off or hits in the middle or near the bottom matters relatively little in how many runs a team scores.

But just on the topic of Rollins leading off, while he was never a great leadoff hitter, that also gets exaggerated. In 2012 (the last time he led off the majority of the time), this is where he ranked among the NL’s 16 leadoff hitters:

In the end I don’t care that much where Rollins hits — 6th or 7th would be fine on this team, and so would 2nd.

But I think the entire premise of “allocating money to spots in the order” is misguided. You spend money for the total value a player delivers, not for where they hit in the order. For example, a 3rd hitter with a given set of hitting skills is worth vastly different sums depending on whether they are a first basemen (where good hitters like Ruf, Overbeck, and Rizzotti are a dime a dozen), or a shortstop (where good hitters are much harder to find), not to mention that the shortstop is likely to also add more value on the bases.

“You can’t compare Rollins to other shortstops, you need to compare him to other leadoff hitters.“

This couldn’t be any more wrong. Any of a number of fielders can lead off, but if you don’t have Rollins, you must replace him with another shortstop.

Even with the third highest walk rate, it still wasn’t enough to get his OBP in the upper half of of leadoff hitters. OPS is nice (take away the meaningless September and I am curious to see what the OPS was) I do like that his strikeouts were low. With his speed, this was okay for a 2 hole hitter, but they had Polanco, Pierre and Victorino, who all also profile as 2 hole hitters, or to go along with your argument, all 4 of those guys produce the same type of stats (limited power and RBI) Polancos production was worse, Victorinos was slightly better. Pierre probably had the best year of the three as far as production goes. The problem still is, too many unproductive guys in the lineup. Your leadoff hitter needs to get on base a lot and score runs, your 3, 4, 5 hole hitters need to drive in runs. (same with your 6 hole hitter to a lesser extent) that leaves 3 spots where you can have unproductive players. The Phillies in 2012 had too many player that were unproductive. Rollins had a nice year when compared to other shortstops but it did the Phillies no good. They needed more production out of their other players. To get more production, you need better players. One way to get better players is through free agency and productive players cost money. I know defense is important so my opinion would have been to get a good defensive shortstop, pay them very little and hit them 8th. Use the Rollins money to find a more productive player since you are already getting the same type of production Rollins gave you from 3 other guys.

This is all a moot point since 2012 is over, I just think at this point in time Rollins doesn’t produce enough offensively and isn’t giving you anything in the locker room. He still can play a really good short stop but so can Galvis. I think it would be unfair to expect the same type of production offensively from Galvis and I wouldn’t expect that so I would hit him 8th and not 2nd. (like the Phillies did in 93 with Stocker and their other shortstops…although Stocker surprised everyone and actually hit, though it was more like a bonus. What they needed at the time was solid defense at short. Also like what the Phillies did with Chooch for all those years. Just play good defense and anything with the bat is a bonus) That is what an 8 hole hitter should be. Great glove at SS, C or CF and anything with the bat is a bonus.

I know the fact that this team isn’t any good isn’t Rollin’s fault but I just don’t think he brings enough to the table. They can do without him. Then when he comes back in a couple years to be on the Wall of Fame, everyone can cheer real loud for all that he did. Right now though, he has got to go.

By the way, not sure why you keep referring to Sep 2012 as meaningless. They had a late surge in 2012, thanks in large part to Rollins, and as late as Sep 21st they were only 3 games back of the wild card, with 11 to play.

I’ll come pop out on the 1st pitch for cheaper!!! He has no heart left and seems to only want to break a record… not a reason to keep him around. He’s so annoying to watch anymore with his jogging! Any little leaguer knows to run everything out so why shouldn’t he be any different when he’s being paid millions to play!

I was waiting for the feces to hit the fan. I kind of knew yesterday it was pilling up. I also had a feeling that Rollins and Ryno would clash. Especially when i heard the workouts where longer and more strenuous etc. I also think this Buster dude is just plain guessing and instigating the scene possibly making it much worse than what it is.

I think Jroll is the least of our problems.He has been a great player for us and if he wants to break some records as a Phillie more power to him. It may be the only thing we have to cheer about for some time.

Terrible, yes. But as the old adage goes (really it’s a question)….”What’s heavier? A ton of feathers or a ton of bricks?” Point I’m trying to make is that 0-0 is 0-0 is 0-0. Let’s see what REALLY happens once the bell is rung. We all may have a good idea but …..

Jimmy should be a lifer he put up with soo many shitty phillies squads. The man is most definitely a leader. The phillies need to calm the clubhouse and get composure. Ruben and ryno got to get there shit together. This club is not going anywhere pointing fingers and threatening and creating drama.

Ok all you backseat driving, armchair quarterbacking, couch potato fans. What the Phils needed to do, and still need to do is RETOOL every year, even after winning the WS. Two examples: the Rays and the Yankees. A low payroll team and a high payroll team. Always in or near contention.

Don’t underestimate Hinckey as a GM.
He’s got a little core of good young players plus two high draft choices and that could put them in the playoffs as early as next year – plus a low enough cap (and attractive enough young team) to lure a free agent like Dirk Nowitzki or even LeBron – and that would send them deep in the playoffs even while the team is still mostly green.

If I had to bet, the Phillies are going to go the Hinckey route (or Houston route as it’s now known in baseball) sooner than later – the difference being that the Phils are going to need two or three very good drafts to get them back in contention. Hopefully, they’ll have blown up and revamped their scouting department, first. Of course, once they blow up the current squad they’ll also have the cap room to pick up a critical piece or two to complement the home grown talent. I just hope the front office at that time is up to the task.

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