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Thursday LOST Roundtable: The Candidate

This week on LOST, Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse decided that they wanted to alienate every last one their fans — and it worked! We vent our continued rage below. Feel free to express your own anger in the comments (or talk about other LOST things, if you feel like it), so long as you do so without spoilers for future episodes.

This week, I’m just going to jump right in. They killed off four main characters in one fell swoop; three of those characters had been with us since the very first episode, and all three of those original characters were also people of color. Discuss.

CARA: This was absolutely awful. And I don’t mean “awful” as in “tragic” or “made me feel sad.” I mean “awful” as in: this was not only lazy writing, it was also a huge betrayal of the characters and the fans. Sayid, both one of the major characters and one of the best characters on this show, was blown up half off screen. Lapidus’ death was treated as an equivalent of one of Widmore’s lackeys being shot down by Flocke. And Sun and Jin spent six years looking for each other, only to die a la that old couple in Titanic for no reason other than that it was SAD.

Oh, and did I mention that these were almost all of the characters of color we had left? That when they decided to kill of characters in bulk, when they decided that it was too much work to give their deaths as much time as they gave to Nikki and Paulo, or to Shannon, they decided to make it three major characters of color, including the very last woman of color, and one far less substantial white dude? Clearly some lives on the show are viewed as wholly expendable and disposable, even if they have been characters since the pilot six years ago, and lord knows that those lives aren’t Jack and Sawyer.

But fear not, remaining characters of color! Do you … make white people laugh? If so, you’re relatively safe! Rest easy, Hurley and Miles!

JILL: Ok, LOST. What the hell?! I mean, I get it that you’re going all Sopranos-style and just popping off characters left and right in the final three episodes. And you know what? I am actually ok with that! I didn’t expect that all of our original characters would last until the end anyway, and I’ve actually been championing offing more than a few of them. And while I was obviously crushed that they killed Sayid, at least he was kinda-sorta redeemed. Except, not really, and they didn’t explain his “sickness,” and all of a sudden he was better, maybe?, and he didn’t even get the Lost death music. Seriously, what? And Lapidus?! Lapiduuuuus! Fuck it, Dude, let’s go bowling.

Also, the Sun/Jin death was sad, but yes, felt contrived and Titanic-esque, and also why are they always speaking English to each other? I mean, great, your last words were in Korean, but shouldn’t you have been speaking that language to each other the whole time? Just asking. Maybe it’s because LOST fans have become too lazy to read subtitles? And so the writers hate us and want to kill off everyone we love? I didn’t even get teary-eyed, really, because it was so cheesy. Until Hurley cried. Then I felt a little pang in my cold, LOST-hardened heart.

Conclusion: We’re going to be left with Jack and John in the final episode. Everyone else is toast.

CARA: Yes, this is what I’m saying. I’ve expected a lot of characters to die. But I expected the to leave the show properly — the show has taken care with other major characters’ deaths, for the most part, and I trusted them to take care here. They didn’t.

LAUREN: Sigh. You guys already said what needed to be said, except that I need — I really, really need — to reiterate how disappointing it is to be a lady on this show: Dead so you can be a plot point in some dude’s story line, shot so you can be saved by some dude, left out of some dude’s plans, or martyred after you find your dude.

And hold up a second. Wasn’t Sayid “sick”?

CARA: I told you Desmond fixed him. You could tell throughout the entire episode that he was more or less back to his old self. He wasn’t emotionless in this episode. He actually cared about the fate of Claire, and tried to get her on the submarine, instead of being every man for himself. When talking about the bomb, he talked in his usual, excited, fast-paced tone that he uses when trying to fix something, not the evil monotone. And when looking at the bomb, there was definitely fear on his face, not apathy. He was not “sick” anymore, though it was never actually discussed.

But while on the topic, I have to add more. Obviously I care most about Sayid of all the characters who died, but I also think he objectively got the rawest deal here. Like Jill said, he didn’t even get the death music. He didn’t get a real death scene. Sun and Jin’s death was pretty bullshit, but at least they got a scene.

Lindelof tries to justify this by saying that Sayid’s death was meant to tell the audience that Sayid was really a good guy. The thing is, everyone knew that already. The only one who didn’t know was Sayid himself. That was the redemption he needed — not in anyone else’s eyes, but his own. And the fact that he didn’t get that specific redemption is what crushes me. I’ve said a million times that I could let go of Sayid, if only he got that, if only they did it right. I’m not angry and devastated because Sayid is dead — I’m angry and devastated because of how they killed him, because he was treated like an afterthought, because he was not given the ending he deserved.

Three-fifths of the people of color killed off! FULLY THREE-FIFTHS OF THEM! At once! The only female Candidate: DEAD! Finally, we figure out that LOST works LIKE A FUCKEN HORROR MOVIE, where the BROWN PEOPLE AND LADIES GOTTA DIE FIRST. And, like, yeah. It was so clearly because they’d stopped knowing how to write for ALL OF THEM a long time ago. Sun and Jin were reduced from complex characters to background decorations and freelance spouse-locators, and then, PRECISELY as soon as they found each other? Dead! Sayid got like the most PATHETIC fucking excuse for a plot line this season, and then they couldn’t even make that work in a convincing way, so they BLEW HIM THE FUCK UP.

And the thing is? Even when nobody was WRITING for them, basically, any more? Those characters were all way more interesting and charismatic than Kate or Jack, because the actors continually rose above the shitty material that was handed to them. What they get for that? What, say, Naveen Andrews gets for giving us a continually sympathetic and complex and coherent portrayal of a man, without even having very many lines or big emotional monologues, and basically selling the entire character with his eyes and reaction shots? What Yunjin Kim gives for turning every Asian-lady stereotype upside down with the sheer force of her will, and continually radiating strength and intelligence even when the writers reduced her to this silent husband-fixated other? What Daniel Dae Kim gets for convincingly appearing to speak fluent Korean, which he just barely speaks in actuality, in scenes with an acclaimed actress from Korea who speaks the language, AND sketching out an interesting, full-fleshed character while seriously not knowing what the fuck he was saying half the time, and creating great chemistry with this actress despite the fact that he could probably hardly understand what SHE was saying in the Korean scenes? What ALL of these actors get is, they get blown the fuck up and drowned so that we can focus on some white people with vastly inferior talent.

Oh, and Hurley. NEVER FORGET HURLEY. Although the writers fucking will. Jesus.

SALLY: Everything everyone else said, I’m almost too drained to say anything other than WTF… The Titanic ending for Jin and Sun bothered me, as it did everyone else, but I also just can’t believe that they’re both dead. They found each other, only to die? I thought they’d get at least a couple of episodes together, no???

And the Sayid thing is really, really pissing me off. I hear you, Cara, in saying that Desmond fixed him because that must be the only explanation here but could they, like, explain that? Or at least hint to it more heavily in the episode in which Sayid is finally all better and back to normal? That pissed me off even more than the way in which they killed him. Although, screw the sad death music, we didn’t even have time to process his death because then Lapidus gets killed off mere moments later with some annoying ass quip. I don’t even need the death music if we could at least have had that time to acknowledge the fact that he just killed himself to save everyone else. UGH! FUCK YOU LOST!

If Hurley dies next week, I might stop watching until this shit is over and just watch all of them on that last day. I can’t deal…
Any thoughts on where all of these deaths leave the theory — held by both Jack and fans — that Flocke cannot kill candidates directly?

CARA: I’m working on a theory using a combination of LOST reasoning and soap opera reasoning to work out how, exactly, Sayid is not really dead! You see, Sayid could not be killed by MIB, because he was a candidate! So against all odds, he’s totes fine, and just taking a leisurely swim back to the beach right now. Lapidus was allowed to die because he was not a candidate. And as for Kwon, the candidate was never Sun (this is the RAGE part of the theory) — and she was the one who was most directly killed by the blast, whereas the bomb did not kill Jin, and he instead actively chose to die.

This theory is not going as well as I had hoped.

JILL: Sayid is dead. Sorry Cara, it pains me too. I think Jack’s theory is right — Sayid wasn’t technically killed by the MIB, he was killed by Sawyer’s messing with the bomb (per Jack’s explanation). Ditto the Kwons.

CARA: Actually, I think this one is largely on Jack again. Maybe just because I hate Jack! But he’s the one who trusted MIB and “rescued” everyone from Smokey. Widmore actually was keeping them safe. And Jack decided to go all hero — and not pay attention to his backpack or where the C4 was (and yes, I’m perhaps being overly critical now, but when a guy you think is evil has a giant pack of C4, wouldn’t you at least try to keep your eye on it?) — and now they’re dead. Sawyer may in fact be largely to blame for pulling out the wires, but I think his decision to do that was a lot more reasonable than Jack’s “the evil smoke monster that my friends just escaped from wants me to help him regain access to them, that sounds like a great idea” call.

Whatever, I’m just all around bitter.

JILL: Ugh, but Sawyer. He is pissing me off almost as much as Jack at this point! He’s trying to play both sides and is like, “I have a plan,” but he never has a plan. And now he’s on a submarine with a bomb and he’s like, “I will just pull out these wires, what could go wrong?” He has not done anything worthwhile in like five episodes. He hasn’t even been giving out nicknames? Ugh, Sawyer.

SADY: Clearly, Sawyer has to be drained of all character too, for the same reason Kate was shot and Locke and Claire are evil and ALL BUT ONE OF THE BROWN CANDIDATES HAD TO FUCKEN DIE: To clear the way for more focus on Jack. Jack, who is going to be the sole fucking survivor. Jack, who took the occasion of the death of three of the show’s original cast members to wander off by himself and get a close-up on his most epic cryface yet, because as the show continually tries to make clear, the events of anyone else’s life or death are really only relevant insofar as they affect JACK’S FEELINGS. As made clear by Sayid, before he done gone and blowed himself up. UGH. I AM MADDER THAN I WAS DURING THE BATTLESTAR GALACTICA FINALE ABOUT GOD AND CAVEMEN. That “so, WHY did I watch this show EVER” feeling: it is strong within me! Too strong! It is TAKING OVER! I may turn into the Hulk!

SALLY: This episode made me mad because I normally like being right and I’ve said since the end of last season that this season was going to be man of faith vs. science with Jack being all faith-y/trust me and Sawyer being all questioning. I would have been fine with that if it wasn’t to serve as a way to make Jack even more God-like than they’ve done in the past. I mean, seriously, why would they have Sawyer shove Sayid aside – when they still have a few minutes to work it out – knowing full well that Sayid is the resident explosives expert? Sawyer wouldn’t do that, no matter how impatient he is. He has always trusted Sayid and I get that Sayid hasn’t been himself as of late, but he was thinking clearly at that moment which Sawyer would have realized. Patience and compassion might not be his strong suits, but Sawyer generally knows what’s up. Yet, he didn’t. What? I’m so confused about that, but mostly, annoyed.
Now back to what this show is really about: WHITE MEN. In the flashsideways, Jack had some sort-of medical and most definitely boundary-crossing interactions with Locke. Also, Locke has seen the original timeline.

LAUREN: Is it just me, or does LOST kind of promote and encourage stalking behavior?

CARA: This episode was pissing me off long before the deaths. Thanks, LOST, for more “disability means that you’re broken” and “disability is a punishment.” I don’t think you’d gotten that theme through clearly enough in six years, so I’m glad that you decided to emphasize it further. (s.e. smith has a whole lot more on this.)
JILL: At this point, I’ve basically given up on LOST being at all sensitive to issues like disability or gender, and I’m trying to enjoy it despite multiple fails. I mean, welcome to TV and popular culture, right? And I often do enjoy it! I just want them to knock off the plot failures (like the unresolved Sayid/illness thing, and the ongoing Claire/illness thing).

LAUREN: I’m halfway with you, Jill, re: pop culture blows/don’t be surprised, but on the other hand, LOST is one of those shows that bends over backwards to include and promote actors of color with detailed, fan-beloved story lines, and nevertheless manages to make a series by, for and about white men, and then — like Cara links to in the first Q/A — practically dismisses fans who want resolution or attention paid to these actors made beloved by their inclusion in said show. After awhile it’s a mindfuck. Remember, too, that LOST was initially a pretty sly, clever commentary on post-9/11 America. All that’s gone by the wayside.

JILL: Yeah, I totally hear that. They started out so well! And now, total failure. I think maybe I’m at the “acceptance” stage of grief? Perhaps they will redeem themselves by blowing up Jack? And/or giving us a Jack/Sawyer shirtless make-out scene before blowing up Jack? I would forgive them lots of ills if they did that. Although I also want them to stop making smart characters so stupid. Example A: Bizzaro LA Claire, who will apparently go anywhere with anyone as long as it is free?

But, Locke and Jack: I also don’t understand Jack’s obsession with “fixing” Locke. Although I did like the little role-reversal that they did there, where Jack was asking Locke to trust him and have faith, and Locke rebuffed him.
SADY: At least Jack stalks dudes AND ladies. Oh, no, wait, that is not actually any fucking better! Fuck this show. Fuck this show for giving me Jack, and fuck this show for taking away any interesting non-Jack material that made Jack bearable because at least he didn’t have ALL the screen time, and fuck this show for making me watch the rest of it knowing that if I ever get interested in anything other than Jack, that will be taken away for MORE TIME WITH JACK, and his JACK FEELINGS.

LAUREN: I still haven’t forgotten what you said about Jack last time, so don’t go trying to redeem yourself now, Sady.

SADY: Also, way to respect your doctor-patient confidentiality, Shephard! “I know you said you didn’t want me to do this thing, so I tracked down everyone in your life including your dentist, and talked to them about you, and our conversations about the thing. WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU STILL DON’T WANT ME TO DO THE THING?!” Christ.

CARA: Can we get a note in here about Bernard, too? “Well, Dr. Shephard, you know I can’t break doctor-patient confidentiality … but, oh, what the hell, just a little bit can’t hurt, right?”

SALLY: Was I the only one completely annoyed at the fact that Bernard and Jack have that “wow, we were all on the plane together and now here we are…” moment and then just move on? Like, huh? I… don’t… understand… Did the writers have a holiday or something? Did they decide that instead of keeping things interesting each episode of the season and fully developing the story they’ve been working on for fucking YEARS, they’d just give us a series of episodes that were completely irrelevant, answered no questions, developed no characters (in fact, had people going against their characters), and they could just lay back until the last few episodes? I AM SO PISSED OFF!!!!

Oh, and as far as Jack having to fix Locke, at least that’s just Jack being Jack. Things you can count on in LOST: women dying and Jack wanting to fix everyone.
Claire was given a mysterious music box by Christian, and no one seems to know the significance. Theories?

LAUREN: It was empty, like her character development. OR it was an opportunity to hammer out yet another mirror-centric scene with two people to emphasize the importance of working together.

JILL: OR it contained a hairbrush, for use on the island.

LAUREN: Actually I’ve always wondered how they handle personal hygiene on this island.

ANYWAY I think the mirror scenes, which I think we’ve seen every episode this season, are important. Early in the season I think they indicated which characters were candidates, or which characters were gaining consciousness of the sideways world, but now later in the season our characters are peering into mirrors together. Why? The theory I like is at AV Club, where Noel suggests that the show is cluing us into the importance of the characters working as a team. He suggests that in this episode the reason there were so many failed plans was because of the candidates working for themselves, and as long as they are pursuing their own agendas their shit is going to fail. Thus, Islanders, remember THERE IS NO “I” IN “LOST.”

On island, we got further confirmation that Kate is no longer a candidate. Are we to simply assume that this is because she has boobs?

JILL: Basically, yes. Kate’s role at this point is to be an Influential Factor in some dude’s storyline. If she were a candidate she would have to have autonomy and her own shit going on, and, well… too hard. Bigger question: Is Kate going to die next episode from getting shot in the chest and then dragged through the ocean and then dumped on a beach?

LAUREN: I have a hard time believing that she wouldn’t, but then, I have an easy time believing in the likelihood of escaping a sinking submarine which exploded thanks to the hijinks of an immortal half-man/half-column-of-smoke with mommy issues. I don’t know why Kate isn’t a candidate, because her character hits every point all the other male candidates do. She’s someone with personal problems who is nevertheless capable of leadership and selflessness. Of the three remaining living candidates, she shares much in common except her gender. Soooooooo?

JILL: I think you answered your own question, there. But I don’t think they’ll kill Kate before the final episode. Why? Titties. LOST needs at least one hot lady to sustain the collective boners of the Male Viewing Audience, and, well, Kate is all that’s left when it comes to hotties (unless Claire decides to brush her hair).

SADY: I would not put it past this show to just kill a girl so that The Dudes (The Important Characters!) can have their very important love triangle problems resolved. Yeah, I think the show has basically never given us any reason to believe that it is interested in Kate aside from the issue of which dude will get to bone her. So, obviously, the Island isn’t interested either. For… some reason. We don’t need a reason! She’s a girl!

SALLY: But I don’t get it, are they never going to acknowledge that her name wasn’t crossed off on the other list? Was that just a mistake? Because that seems to be a really huge one.

Also, I really thought Kate was going to die in this episode and that thought actually made me really, really happy. 1) I’m beyond sick and tired of what they’ve reduced her character to, and 2) I thought that meant we’d only be left with Sun and that this would serve as confirmation that Sun MUST be the candidate because she’s fucking awesome. But then that didn’t happen. Damn it.

Any other thoughts?

JILL: I would like to know a few things. (1) Who is Jack’s ex-wife in Bizarro LA? I feel like that is going to be a BIG REVEAL. (2) When are they bringing back Mr. Eko?! (3) Why is anyone still wearing a bra on that island? Seriously, that shit is hot. (4) How much time has passed since Sayid left Desmond in that well? They’re all on the sub, and then Sayid is just like, “Oh, crap, yeah, Jack, remember Desmond? He’s in this well, you should probably go get him bro.” So… you were just going to leave him there, I guess? And hasn’t he been down in that well for like a week at this point? Doesn’t anyone need to eat/drink on this show?

CARA: I think Des has only been down the well like 2 days, actually. It feels like forever, but I don’t think it has been. I feel like Eko isn’t coming back, which is bullshit, because I’m pretty sure the actor said he wanted to? And I kind of feel like Jack’s ex-wife is nobody. Not Juliet, or Sarah, or Ana Lucia … just, you know, his ex-wife. At this point, whatever happens happens. I was previously holding onto faith that this would all make sense in the end. Any trust I had left in the producers and writing team, though, was pretty much shattered last night.

SADY: Here are my final thoughts: AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGH. Also: Where is Miles? Don’t tell me, actually. DON’T TELL ME. Because I just know that, at some point, they are all just going to randomly stumble over the Corpse of Miles. And Jack will make a cryface, and then we’ll be done.

SALLY: Yeah, I would really like to see Team Richard back in action. Though now that they’re not even on the same island anymore, that seems unlikely which, seriously, would they just write them off the show without a death or explanation or anything???? I would hope not but, as Cara said, I’ve lost trust in these people. I don’t even really remember anymore what major questions I really wanted answered because I’m so frustrated at how the season is turning out. If this series finale doesn’t BLOW. MY. FUCKING. MIND., I will be so incredibly upset, I might stop watching t.v.

And, I think it really needs to be said, I feel this episode was extra emotional so that everyone would be too busy crying to realize how awful the season has been and how weak this episode really was. Don’t get me wrong, I cried too (seriously, Jin and Sun dying, fucking sad), but that doesn’t mean the episode wasn’t poorly written and just plain sloppy. If you don’t agree, just look back at some of the other powerful moments we’ve had and compare them to this one – Charlie’s death, Desmond & Penny’s reunion, shit, even Shannon’s death! That’s it, I’m getting angry again, I’ll stop now.

55 comments for “Thursday LOST Roundtable: The Candidate”

Maybe MIB = Aaron. Didn’t some palm reader or something say that Aaron would grow up super evil if he wasn’t raised by Claire?

I predict a Joker-like dilemma for Jack in which he has to decide to either kill a candidate or let Kate die.

Also, Eko was the best character ever what with his big ass bible stick and all. They should totally bring him back. How many more episodes are there?

Jessica

May 6, 2010 at 9:29 am

Yes. I am so angry about this week’s episode and reading your entry makes me even angrier. I could not BELIEVE they killed off Sayid like they were just slapping together a plot sandwich. At least Sun and Jin got a Death Scene. I just could not stomach what they did to him. And I could not BELIEVE they had the audacity (no, that implies some measure of bravery; this was just lazy and thoughtless writing) assiness to strike off practically THE ONLY OTHER CHARACTERS OF COLOR LEFT.

WTF LOST. THERE HAD BETTER BE SOMETHING FOR THIS. I’ve loved your show from the start and you do this to me to everyone?

I’ve never had a particular preference for either Jack or Sawyer but I was kinda glad Sawyer screwed things up for once because I was getting sick of the whole Jack/martyr/woobie thing. It also just goes to show you that between the 2 white male leads, when confronted with a bomb, both will eff everyone over and only Sayid will do the smart thing (although I question whether dying for it was the smart thing).

As for Kate…I’ve never really liked her, I don’t care, I just wonder how the hell the show got so far from the original premise of having a female lead.

Two other notes:

– Lapidus may not be dead because according to Lost Untangled, only 3 characters died
– I thought the music box was a reference to Danielle Rousseau’s music box (not the same one, just a reference)

Ugh. Gotta go take an Arabic final now, but you can bet I will still be plenty pissed when I get out!

What kind of mother was Sun to not tell Jin that he had to live so their daughter wouldn’t be raised by her conniving father?

Also what about the other children Karl and Emma? Are they dead or will the adults strand them so they end up somehow becomint the skeletons nicknamed Adam & Eve?

Apparently there is so much to be stuffed into the finale that we’re getting an extra half hour. I’m sticking with the show to the bitter end – after 7 years I want to know if they can give us a satisfactory ending that will justify all the time spent/wasted watching the show?

What kind of mother was Sun to not tell Jin that he had to live so their daughter wouldn’t be raised by her conniving father?

…wow.

JoeyJoeJoe

May 6, 2010 at 10:28 am

I’m surprised by how negative the reaction to this episode has been. I personally really enjoyed most of it, including the acting. Terry O’Quinn was particularly good. As for answering questions, Esau/MIB’s real motivation (to kill the candidates) seems pretty clear. As a leadup to the finale, it was pretty eventful, and I’m looking forward to the Jacob episode next week. I’m confident that the show will wrap everything up and answer all the improtant questions. And maybe Sun, Jin, Sayid, and Frank survive – the parallel reality could be the “real” one, whatever that means in terms of the show.

Personally, I would have been really looking forward to the Jacob episode next week. Now I’m just really bitter, because you know what really reinforces the idea that the only people who matter on this show are white men? Following up an episode in which they kill almost all of the characters of color, including the only female candidate, with an episode all about the history of some battle between two mythical white dudes.

And what kind of father is Jin, not going when Sun told him to, so that their daughter wouldn’t be raised by the father that has fucked up both of their lives? I mean, seriously? Yes, of course the well-being of their child must come down only to the woman.

All snarkiness aside, and further ignoring how contrived the set up was, it is pretty heartbreaking to have Jin presented with the choice of knowingly leaving the love of his life to die alone in a watery grave, or to stay with her and sacrifice himself. I just wish that it hadn’t been yet again a woman put in the position of needing to be saved …

Oh, my GOD, Cara. If it had been Jin trapped behind that metal whatever-it-was? I would have cried like a baby and not been ashamed. You are a genius, because Sun needing to save Jin has been, like, what their entire relationship was about for so long, and (someone pointed this out in the comment section at TBD) a total reversal of the damsel-in-distress dynamic in a lot of ways. And it would have been, in some weird self-sacrificial way, a way for her to assert her strength and decisiveness and passion and all the stuff that makes her character good and compelling, and not just some BS relegation of Sun to a helpless ladything who cries and loves and whimpers and must be Saved By Some Dudes.

Oh, although they both would have been dead! On the episode that killed off the majority of the people of color on the show, in one fell swoop! WHOOPS, I would still have been pissed off. BUT LESS SO!

LC

May 6, 2010 at 11:06 am

Yeah, this has reached BSG levels of “Way to tank the show, guys.”

You’ve all dealt with just about anything I would raise.

Maybe, just MAYBE, the finale could end up with something blow away, but it still wouldn’t make up for how badly paced and irritating this season is.

I thought the mirrors thing was just a reference to Jacob has always watched them through the mirrors in his lighthouse.

Linoleum Blownaparte

May 6, 2010 at 11:27 am

I’m not a big fan of the Death Scene; throwaway deaths strike me as more realistic, sudden and tragic. That being said, it still seemed phoned-in in this episode. In fact, this whole season seems more and more lifeless as it progresses. I’m not particularly interested in finding out any of the answers anymore.

Killing off three or four of the more interesting characters, one of whom is the only woman with any kind of pathos on the show, isn’t helping to hold my interest.

Astraea

May 6, 2010 at 11:46 am

What Yunjin Kim gives for turning every Asian-lady stereotype upside down with the sheer force of her will, and continually radiating strength and intelligence even when the writers reduced her to this silent husband-fixated other? What Daniel Dae Kim gets for convincingly appearing to speak fluent Korean, which he just barely speaks in actuality, in scenes with an acclaimed actress from Korea who speaks the language, AND sketching out an interesting, full-fleshed character while seriously not knowing what the fuck he was saying half the time, and creating great chemistry with this actress despite the fact that he could probably hardly understand what SHE was saying in the Korean scenes? What ALL of these actors get is, they get blown the fuck up and drowned so that we can focus on some white people with vastly inferior talent.

This made me tear up and moved me more than the episode. And I’m not being snarky here.

I am so pissed I don’t even know. I saw this coming, I’ve complained about it for a while now, and I still feel betrayed. By shitty writing, by the prominance of the white dude shoved at the viewers. The deaths this week were simply gratuitous.

I can’t even finish the post in one go because I get so damn angry. I’ve never been this angry about a show before.

Astraea

May 6, 2010 at 11:52 am

the events of anyone else’s life or death are really only relevant insofar as they affect JACK’S FEELINGS.

OMFG like in the scene where he wants Locke to be "fixed" so he can "move on" to GIVE JACK COURAGE. And this was played as if JACK WAS BEING ALL AWESOME AND EMPATHETIC.

I wanted Locke to punch him. Fuck you Jack. Fuck you Lost writers! (seriously, have I mentioned how angry I am?)

Steve

May 6, 2010 at 11:59 am

First off I would like to thank everyone for their thoughts as they reflect many of my own… I cannot express how frustrated I’ve been with this show, but unfortunately I’m too committed to just walk away…

This last episode really hammered home my grievances with the writing… Killing off three “major” characters who have been fleshed out from the very first episode pissed me off beyond belief as their deaths were meaningless thus making their roles in the overall story arch meaningless.

Let’s face it the only thing Sun and Jin have provided to the overall story arch has been an archetypal, star-crossed lovers, heterosexual relationship (love conquers all) for the romantics watching the show… other than that what have Sun And Jin provided the overall plot? I was hoping they would play a major roll in the finale, but no…

What role did Sayid’s character play in the overall arch? None… other than hey I’m good with gadgets, guns and torture and sacrificing himself to save others (why does redemption and sacrifice always need to be one’s death? oh it’s the greatest sacrifice of all… blah blah blah boring… I guess Ben is gonna die by sacrificing himself as well). Oh wait he shot Ben in the past… yeah… that was important… cause the whole time traveling to the 70’s really moved the story along (sarcasm doesn’t type well does it)… other then re-enforcing the notion that no matter what you do you cannot change fate (which now seems the whole purpose of the alternate time line), Yawn. Why did they bring him back from the dead only to kill him off a few episodes later, I figured he would play a bigger role if his character was important enough to bring back to life! But no… he’s like Trinity from the Matrix movies…

This show has done this SO many times… let’s introduces some cool characters, spend lots of time with them, build them up, let the audience care for them and think they have an important role in the story, annnnnd… kill them off or write them out of the show… Let’s go through the list… Micheal, Walt, Charlie, Mr. Eco, Ana Lucia, Libby, Faraday, Juliet, the Others, the other Others, Lapidus, and our beloved Sun, Jin and Sayid.

I don’t know… I have little faith in the show… hopefully I’ll be pleasantly surprised, though I’ll still remember all the filler from seasons 3, 4 and 5… sigh… wow I ramble

Astraea

May 6, 2010 at 12:20 pm

re: if Jin was the one who was trapped.

i agree with Sady. I’d be pissed at this episode, but less pissed. Because I went into that death scene already in a really uncharitable mood because of course the two women in sub are both coincidentally rendered helpless in a disaster! If Jin had been trapped I might not have been thrown out of the moment like that.

mical

May 6, 2010 at 12:28 pm

not only was sayid’s death/arc this season awful for all the reasons you pointed out, but it was also an Iraqi character martyring himself with a bomb. WAY TO GO LOST. any hope i was still clutching to for the end of the series died with this episode. “phoned in” really is a great way to describe it…this entire season really. UHG

Jennifer

May 6, 2010 at 12:44 pm

Well, it is still weird that Ji-Yeon NEVER came up in their last conversation. Though at this point even if she had told him to live for their kid, what are Jin’s odds of getting back to Korea at this point? NOT VERY FUCKING GOOD. So…I almost give this a pass, but it should have been discussed verbally. But their being parents has always been handled shittily on this show. I never bought that Sun would abandon her daughter, especially knowing that going to the island again is probably a one-way trip. Even if the island is deadly for everyone, that kid was very hard-won, and she’d give it up? What?

I am pissed as all hell that Jack is The Designated Hero, has the Contractual Immortality, and is now The Candidate. Good lord, I wouldn’t let Jack babysit my imaginary cat and he’s gonna be in charge of keeping Smokey in the bottle? Really? THAT’S A GOOD IDEA? Since WHEN? And why? Because he’s the white boy hero, that’s why, darnit!

Kate will be the last woman alive, but probably will die (after Claire) for more Jears and angst. Nobody will care.

Oh, and the ex-wife is Juliet, because who else is it gonna be? I don’t even CARE, I don’t know why anyone else cares.

Jessica

May 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm

I’m not a big fan of the Death Scene; throwaway deaths strike me as more realistic, sudden and tragic.

Hmm, true, I hadn’t thought of that before. It’s just that in terms of Sayid being an important character who was STILL ALIVE by Season 6, I expected that they would at least try to do his death some justice. I totally agree with Steve that death is a stupid redemption though.

And I agree with mical. Apparently in the Lost edition of Hooked on Phonics, B stands for Brown Guys and Bombs and ever shall the twain meet.

And don’t even get me started about the whole Jin/Sun/Speaking in English During Highly Emotionally Charged Moments thing. I’ve been pissed off about that ever since their reunion.

Phee

May 6, 2010 at 1:18 pm

After it was over, all I could think was, “If it’s Jack vs. Evil at the end, and we have to look at Jack’s determined I’M A LEADER BUT SOMETIMES I’M SCARED OR SAD face for an hour, I’m going to write a strongly worded letter.

I think the writers’ attitude about women can be summarized in Sawyer’s line to Kate: “He doesn’t need you.” Cuz that’s what we’re left with. Jack only needs Kate because he hates not having closure. Also, he needs to fix stuff and she got shot. We’ve still got Claire, sort of, but her screaming “THEY’RE LEAVING US!” just reminded me of the scene in Jurassic Park after the T-Rex eats everyone and the little girl is screeching about the lawyer abandoning her and her brother in the car.

I’m sort of hoping that Eloise swoops in with her amazing hair and kicks the shit out of everyone and then blows the island to smithereens. Or that Claire comes to her senses and kills everyone like she wanted to when she was Survivalist Claire, mother of cherished Skull Baby, only that now she does it because she’s realized how pointless this all is.

And I’m glad someone else brought up how weird it was that Claire looked all smiley and comforted when Jack offered her a place to stay in sideways world. WTF??? You’ve had some seriously weird and dangerous shit happen since you landed. You just met this dude, and you just got a music box from a father you never met that no one can explain. Isn’t your awkward factor going up a bit? Don’t you want to go home?

Maybe after all this is over, Aaron somehow gets to the island and becomes the next MIB, Sun and Jin’s daughter becomes the new Jacob, and the whole show starts over again.

Sayid’s death was disappointing on any number of fronts. Yes, it does often seem as the story is “wrapped up” that the producers characters and story lines that were previously developed (or overdeveloped) are dropped. I had thought there was a lot of padding in past seasons, but in retrospect I underestimated the amount of padding – I had thought some of these stories were substantive or would tie together. It’s possible that some were dropped due to “running out of time to explain everything”, but then why all the padding? Some may have been dropped due to budgetary concerns, or the difficulty of recreating sets, rehiring actors from past seasons, and coordinating shoots; but what a waste.

(I’m sorry – the pause after a bomb is apparently defused, followed by the acceleration of the timing device – is a cliché. Almost as much of a cliché as having the timer stop with one second remaining.)

I hate Jack! But he’s the one who trusted MIB and “rescued” everyone from Smokey. Widmore actually was keeping them safe.

If Widmore wanted to keep the survivors safe, he could have invited them into a well-defended bunker, behind active pylons, and explained his plan… or at least offered them coffee. Or he could have instructed his mercenaries, back when they were on the hunt for Ben, to be nice to the survivors. Or he could have given somebody, at some time in his life, the slightest hint that he cared for anything or anybody other than himself and his expensive whiskey.

If I were to guess, possibly by virtue of Elouise Hawking’s apparent insight into both timelines, events are proceeding in accord with Widmore’s “plan”.

Can we expect an explanation of “Ben vs. Widmore”, or of who was funding Ben and his operations?

I don’t know why Kate isn’t a candidate, because her character hits every point all the other male candidates do.

Maybe the lists of candidates don’t work in perfect parallel – that is, perhaps both sets of people are candidates, but for different things, and thus Kate is crossed off of one list while remaining on the other. I would love to learn how Kate was eliminated from the list, as it seems that for everybody else the only way to be eliminated is by dying.

Of course the random death is more realistic — and I knew that this would come up at some point. But that’s not how LOST works. It never has been. Until now, major character deaths have served some kind of legitimate purpose. Charlie, Shannon, Boone, Ana Lucia, Locke, Faraday … their deaths all supported some major plot point. And in almost all of those cases, the reason for their death was pretty apparent at the time that the death occurred. So I think the “not realistic” thing is a cop out — unless you’ve had the exact some complaint throughout the entire series, in which case, fine (though if realism is a must in your world, I’d kind of be wondering if this was the show for you! :P)

herong

May 6, 2010 at 1:46 pm

SO SO SO SO SO SO ANGRY. If Hurley dies before the last episode I’m going to throw up. If he dies IN the last episode. I’m going to turn off the TV. I swear if it ends up being Jack v. Flocke, it’s going to be even MORE boring than BSG. Someone mentioned Miles being dead. I bet he is! Cause why not! He’s not white! And I bet at the end it’ll be Jack v. Flocke in some random battle of electro-magnectic emotions, then Kate will somehow do something boring and sexy and then Sawyer blah blah and then they’ll be all back on the plane. The end. Most boring boring in the world. So much rage. So much.

Steve

May 6, 2010 at 1:54 pm

I want a do-over from season 3 on… it’s all been filler… leaving the island resulted in returning to the island where the only real character development has been Jack’s, time travel amounted to nothing other than creating the alternate time line, which appears to be all for not… the writers could have gotten to where we are now in plot in season 4, and not have wasted my time with useless story lines that have gone nowhere… grr

If Sayid didn’t run with the bomb and Sawyer stayed next to it no one would have died. The candidates can’t kill themselves. Sayid took the bomb a safe distance away from the other candidates.

But he’s the one who trusted MIB and “rescued” everyone from Smokey. Widmore actually was keeping them safe.

I don’t think Widmore cares about the candidates. This seems like Widmore and the MIB were running a con on the LOSTIES. Widmore wants the island and the MIB wants off. I don’t think they trust each other. The MIB knew where to get the C-4. Widmore moved the fences. Notice Widmore and Zooey weren’t around when the MIB attacked. Desmond was Widmore’s security policy, in case the MIB tried to screw him.

Side note: Widmore’s people were trying to kill the Losties at the submarine. So much for protecting. I hope Desmond kills Widmore.

The MIB in electric magnetic energy. He was weak when he came out of the water. That is why he never attacked the Losties on the beach.

I saw Sayid’s death coming. The Sun and Jin flashbacks bored the hell out of me. Why is Kate still alive. Let’s be honest: Kate is a horrible character. Evangeline Lilly was great in the Hurt Locker. Kate is merely on Lost to be the damsel in distress. Which is the role she served with Widmore holding the gun to her head. I would have preferred the producers killing Kate and keeping Juliet alive. The latter is smarter and a much better fighter.

Side note 2: Hurley and Kate should be dead. There is no way Hurley is going to play lifeguard, buddy breathe and get Kate to the surface. I would have loved to seen that shot.

If Sayid didn’t run with the bomb and Sawyer stayed next to it no one would have died. The candidates can’t kill themselves. Sayid took the bomb a safe distance away from the other candidates.

If the candidates can’t kill themselves, Sayid would still be alive. Sayid was a candidate.

They are fucking writers. It is literally their job to have an imagination. Just because we can’t imagine how they could’ve pulled it off, doesn’t mean they should get let off the hook.

Word.

Though re: redemption, I think that Sayid needed it, but again, only with regards to his own self-perception. Sayid did a lot of really bad things, but by and large he did them for good reasons, whether they be to protect himself or to protect those he loved. But he kept saying in season 5 that he was a bad man, a killer, etc. I liken this aspect of his character to Eko’s. While I really hated the violence and randomness of Eko’s death, I really loved that he ended his life realizing and accepting that he was not a bad man, because he wasn’t. As Eko said, he didn’t ask for the hand that he was given. Sayid pretty much didn’t, either. Sayid didn’t need redemption because he was “worse” than the other characters — after all, they did a lot of bad things for a lot more selfish reasons than Sayid generally did — but because he beat himself up so badly over it.

But other than that one point, everything Jessica said.

J.Cob

May 6, 2010 at 2:16 pm

Seriously? I think you’re being too PC. I’m a person of color and I’m not at all offended that they killed off Sun and Jin. I also love the they subverted the idea of an Arab suicide bomber in Sayid’s heroic death. It was obvious to me from the beginning of Season 5 that these three characters were never going to make it to the end. Sun and Jin never showed any interest in taking a leadership role. Their character arcs were always about mending their broken relationship. Once that happened in season 4 the writers separated, because if they hadn’t there would be nothing left for them to do on the show. So of course, when the finally get back together they are killed the next episode. Their character arcs were fulfilled. As far as Sayid, he was always seeking to atone for his role as a torturer. But lets be honest he was never going to be the last one standing because of his past. He finally found redemption when he sacrificed his life for his friends. Come on, let’s be honest, could the writers really have achieved that any other way?

Jessica

May 6, 2010 at 2:47 pm

@J.Cob

Well:

1. This is in the same territory as “my best friend is black so [I’m right]”. At this point it doesn’t even matter whether anyone’s white or a POC, it doesn’t give anyone a unique perspective into this situation. You don’t have to be anyone of any particular colour to think that the Lost writers think the only good POC is a dead POC that serves the show’s purposes.

2. A lot of people have said that he subverted the idea of the Arab suicide bomber. First of all, why the hell would that idea need to be subverted unless we could only conceive of fictional Arabs characters that have ties to terrorism? What, Sayid couldn’t have been a schoolteacher or a pro tennis player or something? Why did the fact that Sayid plays with his bombs need to be so central to his death and his character? Ignoring (for the sake of this argument) the fact that it’s stereotyped to have the Iraqi dude be a violent torturer anyway, if only because Naveen Andrews managed to pull such depth out of the role, why the hell should he, out of all the other fuckups on the island, have to die to redeem himself? The subtext is: “The only good Arab is a useful Arab and the only useful Arab is the one who dies for us [white people]“. Why should he have to throw himself on top of a bomb to serve white people?

3. There is A LOT wrong if only alpha-male leader types are worth saving or living on the island. So much. They’re not just character arcs, they’re supposed to be people. And this is supposed to be good writing

4. PC is a horribly overused term that basically means “Stop crying, crybabies” and prevents any serious and legitimate discussion of what is going on.

5. They are fucking writers. It is literally their job to have an imagination. Just because we can’t imagine how they could’ve pulled it off, doesn’t mean they should get let off the hook.

I guess the end is truly here. With only three more episodes left, the producers have a lot of explaining to do. After scouring the internet for clues of what’s to come and piecing together some logic from past seasons, I’ve tried to breakdown what I think will end up happening in the next few weeks – and it’s a doozy. What other major characters will die (WHO’s even left to kill off??)? I think some more that people will REALLY care about – not just Jin & Sun. Where will the show end? Like it’s rumored, in hell? http://thesmogger.com/2010/04/30/lost-the-final-countdown/

wolfa

May 6, 2010 at 4:03 pm

While they were all in the sub, I was saying “Lots of death! Lots of death!” and so, on the one hand, I’m glad, on the other: why isn’t Jack dead? What happened to Lapidus? Why couldn’t we have killed Jack instead of, say, Sun and Jin and Sayid?

I am even more convinced that sideways world is the better world now. Sun and Jin are together, alive; Locke is alive and with Helen; Hugo is mostly happy (although in what universe a multimillionaire can’t get a date I do not know); Claire hasn’t disappeared with some evil something into the jungle; Miles and Sawyer are awesome cops together; Ben hasn’t all but killed Alex. Of course, “it was all a dream alternate reality” is a crappy end to the series, but it’s not like “everyone but Jack dies” is in any way a better end.

ShelbyWoo

May 6, 2010 at 4:04 pm

Side note 2: Hurley and Kate should be dead. There is no way Hurley is going to play lifeguard, buddy breathe and get Kate to the surface. I would have loved to seen that shot.

Is that so?

ShelbyWoo

May 6, 2010 at 4:15 pm

Who’s the last candidate that Flocke stormed off to kill thinking the others were dead in the sub explosion? It’s obviously not Claire since he didn’t kill her right then and there. Miles, maybe?

oakdoll

May 6, 2010 at 4:22 pm

What did happen to Lapidus? His death scene must have been so short I missed it entirely. No fair. Last I remember he was with the submarine captain trying to surface the sub before the bomb went off. Did he get knocked out or something? I need to know, so that I can mourn him properly, because I loved him. I really did. I feel like the LOST writers have disrespected my love.

Linoleum Blownaparte

May 6, 2010 at 4:49 pm

“Of course, “it was all a dream alternate reality” is a crappy end to the series, but it’s not like “everyone but Jack dies” is in any way a better end.”

They could do both. My guess is that all but one person on the Island will die and that person will be Jacob’s replacement. At the same time, everyone in the Sideways/Bizarro World will live except for that person. So ultimately if Island Jack lives, Bizarro Jack dies.

If the candidates can’t kill themselves, Sayid would still be alive. Sayid was a candidate.

@Cara: Sawyer didn’t die. Jack lit the dynamite and didn’t blow up.

Another thought: is it me or is Desmond trapped in the most shallow well ever created. When Des talked to Sayid, he looked like he was only five feet deep. Can’t the dude just stand up and climb out. I realize the director needed both actors in the shot. However, I kept think that well isn’t very deep.

I think that’s a rather narrow definition of killing oneself. Especially as Sawyer didn’t intentionally try to blow anything up, and Sayid intentionally blew himself up.

re: Lapidus, apparently he got hit with a door and knocked unconscious when the bomb exploded towards the front of the sub. Right after Sayid blew up. I say “apparently” because I missed it too, and when I asked my husband if he knew what happened to Lapidus, that’s what he said. Someone correct me if that’s wrong!

ShelbyWoo, I think that Flocke just instinctively knew that the bomb didn’t kill them all. Presumably because if they were all dead, he would be able to leave, and he still wasn’t able to go. Neither Miles or Claire is a candidate. I think he was going after Jack, Sawyer, and Hurley, the three candidates who are left.

Oh, and yeah Michael, are you seriously going for “fat people are inept and nonathletic and can’t swim”? Because I can’t figure out what else you could be going for, and that is both incredibly inaccurate and extraordinarily uncool.

Linoleum Blownaparte

May 6, 2010 at 5:11 pm

“However, I kept think that well isn’t very deep.”

Must be a metaphor for the show.

Brandon T

May 6, 2010 at 5:12 pm

The more I see, the more I’m convinced that the sideways plot line isn’t going to intersect with the island world in any way, and the only reason the sideways people remember the island is so that they can appreciate how good they’ve got it.

Ryan

May 6, 2010 at 5:34 pm

I feel like they’re going to end the show with Jack because they started it with Jack’s eyeball and it’s a way of saying, “See? We’ve known all along we were heading towards this coronation of Jack as the supreme king of the Island, we haven’t been making stuff up as we go along AT ALL.” (Although I know, they’ve admitted he was supposed to die at the end of the first episode.)

As for Sun-Jin Titanic ending, I’m wondering if Brian K. Vaughan, one of writers on Lost, had anything to do with it. Without spoiling anything, a key relationship in his comic series “Y: The Last Man” came to a similarly abrupt ending in the final issues.

JP

May 6, 2010 at 5:36 pm

My *favorite* part of the whole episode was when Sayid tells Jack about the attack on the Smoking Club and Jack asks where the rest of the group is. Sayid responds, “Those that weren’t killed scattered into the jungle. It’s just the 3 of us now.” I actually started laughing out loud.

To me that line is indicative of this latest episode, this season, and possibly the entire show. They have characters/plot lines that they eventually just forget about or glaze over or stick into the background….and usually the manner in which they deal with/explain these things (if they deal with them or explain them at all) ends up being very silly and not much more reasonable or substantial than “Oh those people? They ran into the jungle/disappeared/died/went zombie sick/got blown up. So…you know, no one cares anymore.”

Ryan

May 6, 2010 at 6:06 pm

I just wish that it hadn’t been yet again a woman put in the position of needing to be saved…

Yes. I can’t imagine the writers ever deciding to have Jin be trapped and Sun stay behind for him. Or giving a woman character a backstory similar to Richard’s. (Her every action rooted in centuries of guilt and sadness over her failure to prevent her helpless, bedridden husband from dying…) There haven’t been nearly as many men in refrigerators as women in refrigerators on this show.

As for Lapidus, I feel like maybe a lot of places aren’t considering him a character, since he has only been on the show on and off since Season 4, and since he never got any flashbacks or flashforwards? In some ways I want to say “yay, let Lapidus live!” because Lapidus is great. But on the other hand, if they really did kill only people of color, and the one presumably dead person who gets to live is a white dude … I think that’s gonna bring the rage back.

LC

May 7, 2010 at 12:22 pm

Speaking of the filler, in 20 years when someone does a reboot/reimagining of the show, they will have the luxury of ripping up most of the 6 seasons and perhaps going for an ending that has any kind of weight to it.

(Seriously, I am pretty certain that whatever ending they give us, half the people on this thread could have gone back and gotten us there in a more interesting manner.)

I fell in love with Jack starting with the first episode, and I’m glad that some of my own theories about him, largely faith-oriented, have been confirmed so far (and others challenged).

Other than that, I’m still fucking heartbroken.

And if something happens to Hurley, my favourite character, then I don’t know, dudes. Don’t blame politically motivated assassins if you hear about a random journalist’s head exploding in Moscow. Blame the LOST writers.

Oh, and yeah Michael, are you seriously going for “fat people are inept and nonathletic and can’t swim”? Because I can’t figure out what else you could be going for, and that is both incredibly inaccurate and extraordinarily uncool.

My comment was snark at the show. Not at overweight people. I have a hard time buying anyone could buddy breathe and swim with an injured person from that depth. Considering that Hurley is not known as an action-oriented character (the exception is his fight with Sawyer), I do find it hard to believe. The same goes for Jack carrying Sawyer out of the sub.

Do I think Hurley as a character is useless to the survival of the LOSTIES? Yes. Jorge Garcia does a fantastic job playing him. I think if the show was trying to be realistic to it’s own weird sci-fi reality, Hurley would have died long ago. The producers constantly point out anyone can die on the island. The first season Ethan moments and season 2 with the tail section did a good job with that LOST reality. Where the show always falters is having the LOSTIES constantly get captured. I can’t believe Hurley would survive longer than Eko, Juliet and Ana Lucia. Hurley is the character that wimpered and held his hand over his ears when Jack, Sawyer and Kate got tasered. Hurley just stood there. So no, I don’t believe Hurley could play lifeguard. It goes against the way the show has portrayed the character. That has nothing to do with the character’s weight. Hurley was meant to be comic relief and a lovable guy.

I also got tired of Kate constantly going back to rescue people and getting captured. Juliet and Ana Lucia kicked ass. Kate is a lame character. (Kate has the most boring flashback episodes.) The show’s producers killed women that had survival skills. (We can add Eko into the list of bad ass characters that shouldn’t have died.) I would have an easier time believing Juliet, Eko and Ana Lucia making it out of the sub than Kate and Hurley. Realistically, all the LOSTIES should have died in the sub. But we are talking about LOST.

I think that’s a rather narrow definition of killing oneself. Especially as Sawyer didn’t intentionally try to blow anything up, and Sayid intentionally blew himself up.

I am going by the weird rules of the show. A character that has been Mark by Jacob can’t kill himself. Jack’s and Michael’s names were both marked in the lighthouse. Neither could successfully commit suicide. Michael was killed by Keamy’s bomb. Sayid was killed after Sawyer pulled the wires. Sayer wasn’t trying to kill himself. The Island rules are MIB can’t kill people marked by Jacob. The people marked by Jacob can kill each other. Even if it is accidently. Which is what Sawyer did. These are LOST rules. So I can be wrong.

Can we please not use the word “lame” as an insult here? It’s ableist. Thank you.

Raznor

May 9, 2010 at 4:54 pm

Actually, I disagree, regarding Kate. The fact that Kate is the only one every character is certain isn’t a candidate leads me to believe that she is actually the only true candidate. We don’t know what Jacob’s rules are and he likes to fuck with us. Also I don’t think Kate really got shot. The fact is, Smokey wanted Jack on the sub and Claire off the sub, the only thing that allowed that to happen was that suddenly, all the trees where the characters just were are suddenly crawling with Widmore’s men, they just happen to shoot Kate at exactly the moment where Jack would have no choice but to try to treat her in the sub and they dive. Kate didn’t even seem to be bleeding when they were on shore, so I think that all of that, including Kate getting shot, was just an illusion created by Smokey.

invisible_hand

May 9, 2010 at 8:32 pm

i don’t think we are giving enough credit to the flash-sideways story line, which, in my opinion, will right all wrongs. while the regular story line played into some annoying trends, the sideways one will upset them with a fresh start.

secondly, i think them harping over kate’s not being a candidate is actually setting us up. i think she actually is one, but we are being tricked.

I know, I’m VERY late, but I just got to watch the episode last night.

I feel like people who are saying “What a subversion! A suicide bomber for good!’ Are ignoring the fact that ALL suicide bombers are doing it because they think they are doing something good. Sayyid isn’t subverting anything by blowing himself up.

I finished watching “The Wire” last week.
That show’s nothing but coloured people getting killed off like sport. Maybe ONE White guy gets injured (not killed, just shot).

Yet Lost, specifically “The Candidate”, is the most racially offensive thing I’ve seen this month.

It’s not that they died.
It’s that the writers sooooooo didn’t care…

The shows greatest ass-kicker, Sayid, had only 14 episodes…yet they reduced him to waddling & mumbling?!
The shows greatest relationship (fuck the triangle) ends with with a blatant rip off of Titanic?

You know if Sawyer was going to die, they wouldn’t keep him mute for 14 episodes. You know if Jack & Kate were going to die, it wouldn’t be some random material collapse that got them.