t.doomhammer wrote:On the bright side, it was a church in Texas, which should hit very close to home for the thoughts and prayers crowd. Maybe close to home enough for those stupid fucks to maybe do something about our very broken gun control system.

t.doomhammer wrote:On the bright side, it was a church in Texas, which should hit very close to home for the thoughts and prayers crowd. Maybe close to home enough for those stupid fucks to maybe do something about our very broken gun control system.

This post is ban-worthy IMO. This is your brain on neo-liberalism.

Did I at any point say I was glad a bunch of well intentioned people got murdered in cold blood will trying to practice their faith? No, I fucking did not. All I said its that unlike many other mass shootings, this one directly affected the GOP base. It wasn't a bunch of Democrat voting gay dudes in a nightclub in Miami who the GOP barely pretend to tolerate, it was a room full of conservative, white, Christian families... you know, the kind of people who vote for Republicans AKA the guys who are going out of their way to make sure everyone gets access to guns, even people with a track record of mental illness.

Did I phrase it badly? Sure, I'll give you that. If that horrible church shooting doesn't open some eyes to the problem we have with gun culture and mental illness, I don't know what will. That could have just as well been my parents or extended family and that scares the shit out of me. I'm just hoping that this gets people thinking about how their representatives seem to care more about the NRA's support than they do keeping people alive.

To me, yeah. There is no "bright side" to mass shootings. In so many words he's saying "at least it happened to a bunch of dumb rednecks who probably love guns and the bible. Maybe this will teach them a lesson."

t.doomhammer wrote:On the bright side, it was a church in Texas, which should hit very close to home for the thoughts and prayers crowd. Maybe close to home enough for those stupid fucks to maybe do something about our very broken gun control system.

This post is ban-worthy IMO. This is your brain on neo-liberalism.

Did I at any point say I was glad a bunch of well intentioned people got murdered in cold blood will trying to practice their faith? No, I fucking did not. All I said its that unlike many other mass shootings, this one directly affected the GOP base. It wasn't a bunch of Democrat voting gay dudes in a nightclub in Miami who the GOP barely pretend to tolerate, it was a room full of conservative, white, Christian families... you know, the kind of people who vote for Republicans AKA the guys who are going out of their way to make sure everyone gets access to guns, even people with a track record of mental illness.

Did I phrase it badly? Sure, I'll give you that. If that horrible church shooting doesn't open some eyes to the problem we have with gun culture and mental illness, I don't know what will. That could have just as well been my parents or extended family and that scares the shit out of me. I'm just hoping that this gets people thinking about how their representatives seem to care more about the NRA's support than they do keeping people alive.

If you think our country's problem with gun-violence is perpetuated solely, or even primarily by a bunch of legal gun owners in Texas, you're already lost. Not to mention, you don't know the personal politics of the people who were killed. You're making a generalization based on the fact they were in a church down south. It's just a very fucking odd way of looking at things.

198d__ wrote:If you think our country's problem with gun-violence is perpetuated solely, or even primarily by a bunch of legal gun owners in Texas, you're already lost. Not to mention, you don't know the personal politics of the people who were killed. You're making a generalization based on the fact they were in a church down south. It's just a very fucking odd way of looking at things.

The problem is with legal gun owners. All of these dopes buy their guns legally, and they're able to do so in part because of the ridiculously lax gun laws Republicans defend. I know the root problem is actually market capitalism which commodifies and devalues human life or whatever, but you know what he was saying.

t.doomhammer wrote:On the bright side, it was a church in Texas, which should hit very close to home for the thoughts and prayers crowd. Maybe close to home enough for those stupid fucks to maybe do something about our very broken gun control system.

This post is ban-worthy IMO. This is your brain on neo-liberalism.

Did I at any point say I was glad a bunch of well intentioned people got murdered in cold blood will trying to practice their faith? No, I fucking did not. All I said its that unlike many other mass shootings, this one directly affected the GOP base. It wasn't a bunch of Democrat voting gay dudes in a nightclub in Miami who the GOP barely pretend to tolerate, it was a room full of conservative, white, Christian families... you know, the kind of people who vote for Republicans AKA the guys who are going out of their way to make sure everyone gets access to guns, even people with a track record of mental illness.

Did I phrase it badly? Sure, I'll give you that. If that horrible church shooting doesn't open some eyes to the problem we have with gun culture and mental illness, I don't know what will. That could have just as well been my parents or extended family and that scares the shit out of me. I'm just hoping that this gets people thinking about how their representatives seem to care more about the NRA's support than they do keeping people alive.

If you think our country's problem with gun-violence is perpetuated solely, or even primarily by a bunch of legal gun owners in Texas, you're already lost. Not to mention, you don't know the personal politics of the people who were killed. You're making a generalization based on the fact they were in a church down south. It's just a very fucking odd way of looking at things.

obviously no one is going around happy that a bunch of innocent people got murdered, but his thinking is right in the fact that this should hit home MORE than a mass shooting happening in say, New Hampshire.

198d__ wrote:If you think our country's problem with gun-violence is perpetuated solely, or even primarily by a bunch of legal gun owners in Texas, you're already lost. Not to mention, you don't know the personal politics of the people who were killed. You're making a generalization based on the fact they were in a church down south. It's just a very fucking odd way of looking at things.

The problem is with legal gun owners. All of these dopes buy their guns legally, and they're able to do so in part because of the ridiculously lax gun laws Republicans defend. I know the root problem is actually market capitalism which commodifies and devalues human life or whatever, but you know what he was saying.

Thank you.

And also, yeah, we do know enough about the shooter to know that he shouldn't have been able to own a gun based off the fact that he had a history of mental illness and was dishonorably discharged from the military for beating the shit out of his wife and son. I'm not especially interested in his personal politics after that point and I really don't get what that has to do with anything since the shithead shouldn't have been able to own a gun in the first place. Of course, the NRA makes a point of ensuring that mentally ill wifebeaters can give money to gun manufacturers just like rational, law abiding citizens.

198d__ wrote:If you think our country's problem with gun-violence is perpetuated solely, or even primarily by a bunch of legal gun owners in Texas, you're already lost. Not to mention, you don't know the personal politics of the people who were killed. You're making a generalization based on the fact they were in a church down south. It's just a very fucking odd way of looking at things.

The problem is with legal gun owners. All of these dopes buy their guns legally, and they're able to do so in part because of the ridiculously lax gun laws Republicans defend. I know the root problem is actually market capitalism which commodifies and devalues human life or whatever, but you know what he was saying.

If you're able to comprehend the root cause, why acknowledge anything OP said?

Mass shootings account for less than 1% of gun deaths. The reason why people like b9 users are clammoring for "strict gun control" is because these events are the closest thing most of us will ever have to being affected by a gun crime. Most, not all. I can't speak for everyone.

People want to stereotype a bunch of people in a church down in Texas because they feel they're the primary motivator behind gun violence even when statistics argue the contrary. The very institutions you want restricting your guns are the ACTUAL arbiters of violence via weaponry. How can you even begin to change legislation based on an extra-state act of violence that accounts for a marginal percentage of these deaths, before you've addressed the state violence that is actually killing thousands of people all around the world? Do the thousands dead in middle east at the hands of your government not count?

Is it possible that our war-ready attitude and commodification of weaponry has a large role in this narrative? Are people who have been forced to live in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in our country due to skin color and socioeconomic status pro gun-control? Statistically, responsible gun owners confined to bad neighborhoods would be disproportionately affected by gun laws. You know, the people who actually need them to prevent harassment. Stop thinking every person who is hesitant about gun laws is so because they're bible-thumper down in Arkansas.

Last edited by 198d__ on Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

You shouldn't be able to own an AR-15, but then somebody comes in here talking about the military industrial complex, hypocrisy, and people being able to defend themselves in high crime neighborhoods, as if that has anything to do with the reasonable suggestion that people don't need to, and shouldn't be able to own an AR-15. Fuck.

You shouldn't be able to own an AR-15, but then somebody comes in here talking about the military industrial complex, hypocrisy, and people being able to defend themselves in high crime neighborhoods, as if that has anything to do with the reasonable suggestion that people don't need to, and shouldn't be able to own an AR-15. Fuck.

I never said nothing should be done, dude. I'm more so trying to offer a counter-perspective and dispel untrue narratives. You're on fucking crazy pills if you think that our gun problem is perpetuated primarily by 2nd amendment types down south. Even crazier if you see this as a "bright side" that may "open some people's eyes." Like no. I'm willing to listen to ideas because it's not like mass-shootings are nothing, but at least be a little investigative about their origin and their actual significance when compared to violence world-wide. It exposes a lot of western-centric attitudes and tackling that is important.

Your issue is that you're so caught up in self-interest and hysteria that you see these counter points as "obfuscating." The statistics speak for themselves. This doesn't make mass-shootings not tragic, they certainly are. It's just strange that with all the death and misery going on in the world, much of it by our government to maintain our commanding influence in the world (your benefit), a situation that affects less than 0.1% of our population is what brings out liberals in droves.

I think if youre the victim of gun violence, whether it was a mass shooting or not means absolutely nothing to the people that survive you. I think most people understand that the risk of them being killed in a mass shooting is relatively low, but what about the risk of, I dont know, being fucking shot in the first place?

Edit- This was in reply to the link 198d____ shared.

Last edited by PaulKersey on Tue Nov 07, 2017 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh, I get it. 198d is the guy on Facebook that when someone changes their default picture to a French flag filter, he says "How come you care about this, but not the bombing in X country?!" as if people are incapable of showing concern for more than one topic at a time.

You shouldn't be able to own an AR-15, but then somebody comes in here talking about the military industrial complex, hypocrisy, and people being able to defend themselves in high crime neighborhoods, as if that has anything to do with the reasonable suggestion that people don't need to, and shouldn't be able to own an AR-15. Fuck.

It seems that most Americans are willing to go through some extreme mental gymnastics on this issue, looking for a reason to throw their hands up in the air and quit rather than put all of that effort into making ANY sort of change, no matter how minuscule. Some of my smartest friends do the same thing. Looking for any reason to remain the same under the guise of "... the real problems".

To use an analogy: There are deeper issues as to why people join terrorist organizations (psychological, economical, etc.), and these issues should rightly be investigated and addressed, but to say that we needn't concern ourselves with preventing future terrorist attacks until we've fixed the deeply complex underlying issues would be absurd.

You shouldn't be able to own an AR-15, but then somebody comes in here talking about the military industrial complex, hypocrisy, and people being able to defend themselves in high crime neighborhoods, as if that has anything to do with the reasonable suggestion that people don't need to, and shouldn't be able to own an AR-15. Fuck.

To be fair, last year a guy on the street behind me used an AR-15 to fight off armed robbers. I have no problem with certain types of guns being banned from sale. I think the bigger push needs to be for an actual computerized record of gun sales/purchases and a federal database. I know I know, that will lead to Hitler taking power or whatever but it's fucking absurd that it's not truly kept track of who has how many guns.

198d__ wrote:It's just strange that with all the death and misery going on in the world, much of it by our government to maintain our commanding influence in the world (your benefit), a situation that affects less than 0.1% of our population is what brings out liberals in droves.

No it isn't, come on. Of course Americans get freaked out by other Americans getting gunned down in churches/shopping malls/business parks/night clubs/outdoor concerts; they themselves are often in places just like that and they are people just like the ones being killed. You can say it's unfortunate, but it is definitely not strange.

It's much harder for your average American to understand what airstrikes in Syria or Green Beret raids in Niger or F-15 sales to Saudi Arabia mean for people who are only "like them" if you pull back a bit and take a more macro perspective. In short; this kind of what-about-ism ignores where people's heads are at in this conversation and is therefore, basically bullshit.

Also if you want to talk about gun violence in America, the vast majority of people killed by guns in this country are shot by themselves either intentionally or accidentally (~20k out of ~33k per year). And you know what sucks about killing yourself with a gun is that you can't take it back. If you OD on pills or cut your wrists you can back out of it, and a lot of people do. Once you pull the trigger it's game over. BTW your chance of dying by gunshot increases something like 5 times if you live in a house with a gun.

Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

gman EB wrote:Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

gman EB wrote:Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

this all circles back around to what doomhammer was saying

Dude, what he said sucked even if you're pro gun-control. It won't lead to any awakening, those people are not your martyrs, there is no "bright side," the fact that a "bright side" is considered because they were probz totz dumb redneckz who luved guns is shameful.

gman EB wrote:Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

this all circles back around to what doomhammer was saying

Dude, what he said sucked even if you're pro gun-control. It won't lead to any awakening, those people are not your martyrs, there is no "bright side," the fact that a "bright side" is considered because they were probz totz dumb redneckz who luved guns is shameful.

I guess the bright side to communism is that the 100+ million people killed under it's rule should have just kinda shut up and not said anything against it, or have been an opposing party member, or a member of a hated ethnic group, or a state criminal. It just shows how effective of a system it can be excelling in violent suppression.

gman EB wrote:Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

this all circles back around to what doomhammer was saying

Dude, what he said sucked even if you're pro gun-control. It won't lead to any awakening, those people are not your martyrs, there is no "bright side," the fact that a "bright side" is considered because they were probz totz dumb redneckz who luved guns is shameful.

I guess the bright side to communism is that the 100+ million people killed under it's rule should have just kinda shut up and not said anything against it, or have been an opposing party member, or a member of a hated ethnic group, or a state criminal. It just shows how effective of a system it can be excelling in violent suppression.

if you're talking China and Russia, you're looking at 120-140 million people killed. how can millions of people with rifles on their own home turf defend themselves against a big scary Communist army??? it's good that the Russians and Chinese gave up their rifles, annihilation deserved.

chugging_pus wrote:if you're talking China and Russia, you're looking at 120-140 million people killed. how can millions of people with rifles on their own home turf defend themselves against a big scary Communist army??? it's good that the Russians and Chinese gave up their rifles, annihilation deserved.

gman EB wrote:Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

this all circles back around to what doomhammer was saying

Dude, what he said sucked even if you're pro gun-control. It won't lead to any awakening, those people are not your martyrs, there is no "bright side," the fact that a "bright side" is considered because they were probz totz dumb redneckz who luved guns is shameful.

You're being kind of precious for a dude who consistently defends autocratic governments and dictators.

198d__ wrote:If you think our country's problem with gun-violence is perpetuated solely, or even primarily by a bunch of legal gun owners in Texas, you're already lost. Not to mention, you don't know the personal politics of the people who were killed. You're making a generalization based on the fact they were in a church down south. It's just a very fucking odd way of looking at things.

The problem is with legal gun owners. All of these dopes buy their guns legally, and they're able to do so in part because of the ridiculously lax gun laws Republicans defend. I know the root problem is actually market capitalism which commodifies and devalues human life or whatever, but you know what he was saying.

If you're able to comprehend the root cause, why acknowledge anything OP said?

Mass shootings account for less than 1% of gun deaths. The reason why people like b9 users are clammoring for "strict gun control" is because these events are the closest thing most of us will ever have to being affected by a gun crime. Most, not all. I can't speak for everyone.

People want to stereotype a bunch of people in a church down in Texas because they feel they're the primary motivator behind gun violence even when statistics argue the contrary. The very institutions you want restricting your guns are the ACTUAL arbiters of violence via weaponry. How can you even begin to change legislation based on an extra-state act of violence that accounts for a marginal percentage of these deaths, before you've addressed the state violence that is actually killing thousands of people all around the world? Do the thousands dead in middle east at the hands of your government not count?

Is it possible that our war-ready attitude and commodification of weaponry has a large role in this narrative? Are people who have been forced to live in some of the most dangerous neighborhoods in our country due to skin color and socioeconomic status pro gun-control? Statistically, responsible gun owners confined to bad neighborhoods would be disproportionately affected by gun laws. You know, the people who actually need them to prevent harassment. Stop thinking every person who is hesitant about gun laws is so because they're bible-thumper down in Arkansas.

Agreed there's definitely a racial/class narrative to gun control, since it's primarily upper class white liberals that push for it, easy to say no one should have protection when you are in a gated community and can rely on state actors to protect you and not shoot you in the back of the head while you are fleeing, it's a lot more than the Billy Bobs and Todds in rural Appalachia. Y'all motherfuckers need a little Huey Newton in your life.

gman EB wrote:Leave it to the religious members of my family to share a photo on Facebook of a cowboy sitting in church, with a gun on his hip, with the captain: “Dear Christians, CARRY YOUR GUNS TO CHURCH. The shooter was KILLED by an ARMED CITIZEN. Not the police.”

Yea, that’s what you need. A shootout in the middle of mass. That will end just like the donut shop scene from Boogie Nights.

this all circles back around to what doomhammer was saying

Dude, what he said sucked even if you're pro gun-control. It won't lead to any awakening, those people are not your martyrs, there is no "bright side," the fact that a "bright side" is considered because they were probz totz dumb redneckz who luved guns is shameful.

So far, you're literally the only one in this thread who has tossed around the phrase "dumb rednecks", multiple times I might add.