Just have a look there. In my view we have a guy who is only one season removed from averaging a double double, something he has done three times in his career. We have a big man who can take it out to the 3pt range and put the ball on the floor. What if Troy Murphy starts earning that contract!?

Playing under Jim O'Brien isn't going to hurt Troy. In fact I think its going to be very good for him. I know there is a thread out there talking about Tinsley having a breakout year, I think Troy Murphy is another player worth a little buzz.

Of course I can just hear it now... 'but what about his defense'! Please, I can make a lot of good players look crappy by saying that. Lets talk about what a player does well for the team.

madison

08-13-2007, 08:30 PM

Are you kidding? Murph breaking out? What are you smoking?

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 08:35 PM

Are you kidding? Murph breaking out? What are you smoking?

Yeah nice reply. :rolleyes:

Its like this, he is a guy who can average a double\double. He is returning to the weight at which he used to accomplish that task. He is going to be playing for a coach who will utilize his particular skill set very well. And while it might not be the popular, whiny talk about Troy, I think he is going to be very good this season, period.

:sunshine:

LG33

08-13-2007, 08:42 PM

You mean acne? Because I'm pretty sure the guy washes his face frequently.
But seriously, that's why I've stopped being so gung-ho about a Murphy trade in the last couple weeks. A man can hope.

That's for all the people who joked about Tinsley and jail.

madison

08-13-2007, 08:45 PM

Think whatever you want. I had the displeasure of watching every home game he played in a Pacer uniform. He can't handle the ball in the open court. Can't dribble and acts surprised when a pass bounces off his chest. He's not much of three point shooter, either, even when there's a double on JO and he's wide open. His offensive rebounding his awful because he's camped at the 3-point line. Then, there's his defense. I should say, there's his lack of defense. He can't guard any of the better C's in the league. Doesn't even try. There's a reason Foster started after Rick got a look at TM -- he doesn't rebound well (positioning is everything) and he didn't play D. Murph is a big, slow guy with an OK offensive game at 20 feet. Whoop-T-Do!

Hicks

08-13-2007, 08:46 PM

I think it's plausible, and if it does happen, things get interesting.

Hicks

08-13-2007, 08:46 PM

He's not much of three point shooter, either,

40% from the 3 isn't much to you?

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 08:54 PM

Think whatever you want. I had the displeasure of watching every home game he played in a Pacer uniform. He can't handle the ball in the open court. Can't dribble and acts surprised when a pass bounces off his chest. He's not much of three point shooter, either, even when there's a double on JO and he's wide open. His offensive rebounding his awful because he's camped at the 3-point line. Then, there's his defense. I should say, there's his lack of defense. He can't guard any of the better C's in the league. Doesn't even try. There's a reason Foster started after Rick got a look at TM -- he doesn't rebound well (positioning is everything) and he didn't play D. Murph is a big, slow guy with an OK offensive game at 20 feet. Whoop-T-Do!

So is there a Pacer player you aren't going to bash on this board?

madison

08-13-2007, 08:56 PM

40% from the 3-line is good. That would be wonderful if he was playing as a shooting guard. The trouble with 6-11 guys shooting 40% threes is there's no way they can follow up on the boards 60% of the time. That's the job of a center, which is what they pay him to play. I'd much rather he was shooting 60% at the rim. Now THAT would help take some of the pressure off of JO.

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 08:57 PM

I think it's plausible, and if it does happen, things get interesting.

See thats my thoughts on this too. If he gives us 12-15 points and 9-10 rebounds a game thats pretty good. Add to the fact that one of the other teams bigs is going to have to guard him away from the post.

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 08:59 PM

I'd much rather he was shooting 60% at the rim. Now THAT would help take some of the pressure off of JO.

This makes more sense to me. I just don't know if he is a guy who can work the post like that, is he?

Pacerized

08-13-2007, 09:01 PM

Murphy would be the player that I'd vote as least likely to have a break out year. He may get the minutes at the beginning of the season, but I have to think the coaching staff will be too frustrated with his effort on D to keep giving him the P.T.

Hicks

08-13-2007, 09:01 PM

40% from the 3-line is good. That would be wonderful if he was playing as a shooting guard. The trouble with 6-11 guys shooting 40% threes is there's no way they can follow up on the boards 60% of the time. That's the job of a center, which is what they pay him to play. I'd much rather he was shooting 60% at the rim. Now THAT would help take some of the pressure off of JO.

Typically, long shots result in long rebounds.

BlueNGold

08-13-2007, 09:02 PM

I hope we see a more physical version. The guy just needs to hang with Barry Bonds for the summer and come back 20lbs heavier. Seriously, he would be a 20/10 banger with a solid shot.

d_c

08-13-2007, 09:03 PM

This makes more sense to me. I just don't know if he is a guy who can work the post like that, is he?

In a word: No

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 09:05 PM

In a word: No

Precisely. So I think we should use him in a way that maximizes his skills rather than expect him to become a player he isn't.

The other thing is that I remember when this guy put a letter into the Indy Star. He strikes me as a good guy, not a guy who lacks effort.

d_c

08-13-2007, 09:15 PM

Precisely. So I think we should use him in a way that maximizes his skills rather than expect him to become a player he isn't.

The other thing is that I remember when this guy put a letter into the Indy Star. He strikes me as a good guy, not a guy who lacks effort.

Murphy was always a good guy in GS. Never got in any kind of trouble. He worked hard every summer. Was in the gym all the time. Problem is, for all the time he spent in the gym, he STILL had below average athleticism and stamina. Heck, for all I know, all the hours he spent working out might be partially to blame for his foot/heel problems.

He doesn't put in a lot of effort defensively (on giving help defense anyways), but he does work hard chasing after rebounds. There was an incident at the end of one year where his rebounding average sat right at 10.0 and he had a clause in his shoe deal that would pay him more $ if he averaged a double double. In the last game of the year, he sat out the game, probably to protect that average. I don't blame him, as the season was already long over and I probably would have done the same thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the letter was at the urging of Pacer organization, who wanted to remind all the fans that he wasn't Stephen Jackson.

Rajah Brown

08-13-2007, 09:28 PM

d c-

He better learn to put some effort into 'help defense' or he'll have
Harter pulling out what little hair he's got left. Or at least he will
until he's perched on the bench next too him full time.

Bball

08-13-2007, 09:34 PM

I think there's a better chance Murphy has a breakout year under OBrien than Tinsley.

I'm not sure Tinsley's games of 'oneupsmanship' will play any better with OBrien than they did with Carlisle. Actually, I think they will likely be met with a trip to the bench (which is something Carlisle didn't do). Maybe that 'pine time' will make a difference in Tinsley so maybe in the long run OBrien will get something done with him. OTOH, Murphy might fit in quite well with OBrien's plans and I do think he'll keep his head in the bigger picture of each game and the system. Tinsley... not so much.

Not that I'm getting my hopes up too much either way but I feel better about Murphy than I do Tinsley.

-Bball

Oneal07

08-13-2007, 09:38 PM

With that money hes' making he better have some break out season!!

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 09:45 PM

So if he returns to double double quality, where does that put the Pacers next year? Better than 4th in the central?

Oneal07

08-13-2007, 09:48 PM

LOL

Cobol Sam

08-13-2007, 09:51 PM

LOL
:D

wintermute

08-13-2007, 10:21 PM

i do think that murph will put up career numbers this season. i wouldn't be surprised to see murph being a featured player in obie's offense.

that said, i don't see him as a long term starter. he shoots pretty well, and his rebounding is decent. that allows him to put up numbers in the all-important ppg and rpg sections of the stat sheet, but beyond that, he's just not very good. he's a guy who could start in certain circumstances, but on the whole his best role seems to be off the bench.

what kind of "breaking out" would make me want to keep him - improvement all around, but especially on his one-on-one defense OR great improvement in his good skill, e.g. putting up dirk-like 20+ ppg with ~50% fg. neither is likely to happen at this stage of his career i think.

Anthem

08-13-2007, 10:48 PM

I'd much rather he was shooting 60% at the rim.
Naptown's about to bust in here like a Kansas tornado and point out that hitting 40% on 100 3FAs will give you 120 points, as will 60% on 100 2FAs. So it's even.

But there aren't very many people in the NBA who can score 10ppg on 60% shooting. Two, in fact: Dwight Howard and David Lee. Knocking Murph for his weaknesses is fine (I do it all the time) but don't knock him for not being Dwight Howard.

JayRedd

08-13-2007, 10:49 PM

Diddy suggests Proactive. It preserves your sexy.

Kegboy

08-13-2007, 11:11 PM

You mean acne? Because I'm pretty sure the guy washes his face frequently.

Hey, his hygiene may have nothing to do with it. Some people just have bad skin. The stress of living up to that insane contract probably doesn't help.

That's for all the people who joked about Tinsley and jail.

It's a sign of the team we have that my first thought when I saw the tread title was, "Wait, Troy's in jail?"

And no Rat, you don't have to waste your time with a "Jamaal and Troy Prison Break" 'shop. Though the tattoos would be cool.

rexnom

08-13-2007, 11:23 PM

Hey, his hygiene may have nothing to do with it. Some people just have bad skin. The stress of living up to that insane contract probably doesn't help.

It's a sign of the team we have that my first thought when I saw the tread title was, "Wait, Troy's in jail?"

And no Rat, you don't have to waste your time with a "Jamaal and Troy Prison Break" 'shop. Though the tattoos would be cool.
If we're gonna have the tats, can we please include RJ's wife too?

d_c

08-14-2007, 01:29 AM

So if he returns to double double quality, where does that put the Pacers next year? Better than 4th in the central?

Murphy's numbers in GS were never a problem. He averaged a double double 3 out of 6 years he was there and the Warriors never got higher than 10th in the west in any of those seasons.

Let's put it this way: Mullin tried every way possible to deal him to the Hawks for Al Harrington in the summer that DIRECTLY FOLLOWED a year in which Murphy averaged 14 and 10. (And Al Harrington had never averaged a double double in his career). Not having good enough numbers for everyone's fantasy squad wasn't the reason the Warriors were looking to deal him.

The Hawks wanted none of it and Mullin got beat to the punch by the Pacers. Of course that situation worked itself out a few months later.

Eindar

08-14-2007, 02:44 AM

Murph can average a double double, but not with JO, Foster, and Danny on the team. I think a more realistic number for him with good rebounders is 15-7. That's not bad for a big man, but not great for a big man with horrible defense. The only bright spot is that he'll keep JO healthier by camping at the 3 point line. Also, we've never had an assistant murder a player, but Dick Harter might be the first between Dunleavy and Murphy. If I was the Marion County Sheriff, I'd have a guy tailing Harter.

On the bright side, if O'Brien's system can make Walker look decent, he can make Murphy look decent, and if anyone can get him to be a mediocre defender, it's Dick Harter.

Time will tell.

bellisimo

08-14-2007, 04:08 AM

Typically, long shots result in long rebounds.

or if its me shooting - then its all out of bounds baby! :D

Naptown_Seth

08-14-2007, 04:09 AM

Typically, long shots result in long rebounds.
Well I was just watching the 25 in the 4th game on the DVD and they were noting how little Oakley was hitting the boards because he was settling for jumpers on offense.

It's not just a case of getting your own rebound on a 3pt shot, it's where you are playing the other 70-80% of the time when you aren't shooting.

Plus the biggest issue with Troy's rebounding is that he is just not as tough as Foster and also not as quick. When you saw them play together, or even back to back, you (or at least I) started seeing just how much of a difference in rebounding effort and ability there was.

Troy's rebounding numbers to me are a bit artificial. Seeing him in action all the time in Indy makes me suspicious of what he's credited for doing previously, and more so when his own coach wanted no part of him (I mean Nellie).

To me Danny, Dunleavy, Rush and perhaps even Ike are all far more likely to "break out".

Besides, Troy's issue isn't nearly as much about offense or rebounding as it is his doorman effort on defense. He's just not good at that end. Maybe the system can change that, but if not I would expect JOB and his defensive mindset to pull the cord quickly on him.

Naptown's about to bust in here like a Kansas tornado and point out that hitting 40% on 100 3FAs will give you 120 points, as will 60% on 100 2FAs. So it's even.You already TCOB. And you pointed out the limited number of guys getting 10 per at a rate of 120 points per 100 shots.

However...most 3pt guys don't get the chance to earn bonus points via fouls, so you can't truly compare only the shooting percents modified by points per FG/3P. Gotta consider the FTAs too.

And then from that you also consider what I just mentioned, being in the pack helping hold off the other team, pressuring teams to defend the rim, etc.

However you will NEVER hear me rip Troy's ability to make a three. I will note that Al was dropping it at 45% which makes trading him for Troy rather frustrating. We already had a soft rebounding, 3pt bomber and he played better defense (most of the time).

Troy to me is Sam Perkins without the vet saavy. He can help but I don't see him as a starter, let alone a key starter.

Evan_The_Dude

08-14-2007, 07:12 AM

Troy doesn't need to break out. I just want him to return back to double-double Troy. If he wants to break out in the midst of that then so be it. I don't want him to just pitch a tent at the three-point line though. From what I've heard, he's bulking up to get back to the old Troy Murphy.

Cobol Sam

08-14-2007, 07:39 AM

Troy doesn't need to break out. I just want him to return back to double-double Troy. If he wants to break out in the midst of that then so be it. I don't want him to just pitch a tent at the three-point line though. From what I've heard, he's bulking up to get back to the old Troy Murphy.

Yeah, I think I used the term "break out" wrong. I really meant, "What if... Troy Murphy produces better numbers" or "What if... Troy Murphy becomes a relevant player on the team" I'm not saying he'll be an allstar at all, or even close.

I am excited about the bulking up, and I'm excited that he'll be back after resting that foot injury or whatever he had going on at the time of the trade.

Speed

08-14-2007, 07:59 AM

I not only think he can, I think he will get back to close to that level, double/double, with Obie. He can still collect defensive rebounds, he'll get his share of shots. He has the ability to be a fair defender, not good. He can stretch an offense and he really is only missing his old toughness and a coach who will use his skills. I also think Foster is the exact opposite of what Obie is looking for in a player so I think Murphy will get the minutes. I don't know that 12-13 pts and 8-9 boards is a breakout year, but that is what I expect from him and that is pretty good, I think.

DisplacedKnick

08-14-2007, 08:32 AM

Troy doesn't need to break out. I just want him to return back to double-double Troy. If he wants to break out in the midst of that then so be it. I don't want him to just pitch a tent at the three-point line though. From what I've heard, he's bulking up to get back to the old Troy Murphy.

I could see Murphy getting back to being a 15-10 guy again. I consider that much more likely than the prospect of Jamal Tinsley playing an entire season like he has for occasional 10-game stretches during his career.

That helps you some. Unfortunately, unless he has a breakout season defensively, I'm not sure how much that helps you in wins and losses.

On offense a lot of you are underestimating how much having someone who can step out and hit an open 15-20 footer will help JO, just by clearing space. And he fits right into that part of JOB's system. But the defense is still a killer.

able

08-14-2007, 08:57 AM

I could see Murphy getting back to being a 15-10 guy again. I consider that much more likely than the prospect of Jamal Tinsley playing an entire season like he has for occasional 10-game stretches during his career.

That helps you some. Unfortunately, unless he has a breakout season defensively, I'm not sure how much that helps you in wins and losses.

On offense a lot of you are underestimating how much having someone who can step out and hit an open 15-20 footer will help JO, just by clearing space. And he fits right into that part of JOB's system. But the defense is still a killer.

Which in turn would mean, Tinsley is able to play the game he's good at; getting the ball to ppl in scoring position, PLUS with the Harter addition, we are somewhat hopefull of a better defensive "team" this year then we had last year and even the year before that.
I personally think that Murphy, Tinsley and Dunleavy will "look" better defensively this year under Harter.

I'm not high on any new player we signed this year, but for the fact that if we keep JO (hopefully) we will see very big numbers from either the "roleplayers" or from him, best we can hope for is that an on court situation is created whereby double teaming JO is dangerous and tripple teaming him as was done last year on an almost constant basis, becomes impossible because our "roleplayers" will then kill you.

What we need(ed) most is disallowing opponents to play the "let their roleplayers defeat us" tactics that killed this team last year,whilst swarming JO whenever he points at the ball.

If the guys can make their shots I am sure JO's assist rate will also skyrocket.

Unclebuck

08-14-2007, 09:05 AM

I don't know if he will or not, but if he doesn't in this system, then he never will. This system both offensively and defensively is taylor made for Murph

OakMoses

08-14-2007, 10:06 AM

There seems to be somewhat of a gross misconception here. Troy Murphy is not a center. He never will be a center. He does not play like a center either on offense or defense. He is a power forward.

O'Brien, in an early interview said two things, first he said that in his offense, the 3 and 4 spots are interchangable. Second, he said that his starting lineup would likely be Tinsley, Dunleavy, Granger, Murphy, and O'Neal.

Out of the bigs in that lineup, which one's game is most compatible with playing the 3 or 4. It's not JO, even though he's apparently spent the summer working on extending his range. Which one of those guys can protect the rim on defense? It's not Troy Murphy.

I think that we have a coach now who strongly believes that JO is a center. He better suck it up and get used to it, or start getting more serious about his not-trade requests. Personally, I think JO should focus on being a great defender, shot blocker, and rebounder this year. If he averaged 16 pts, 12 rebs, 3 blks, and 3 asts on 50% shooting, I might consider it his best year. The other 4 guys in the starting lineup can each score at least 15 ppg, we don't need JO to score 20 on 40% shooting. Not to mention the fact that Ike, Shawne, and Rush can all score coming off the bench, possibly at the 10 ppg level.

I'm not a huge Troy Murphy fan, but I do think that he'll be given the chance to have the best season of his career. His defensive effort never seemed to be lacking last year, he would just get pushed around because he wasn't strong enough. If he beefs up, he's a guy who will fit well into the new system.

I agree with those who think Troy has a much better chance of a breakout than Tinsley.

NapTonius Monk

08-14-2007, 02:04 PM

IMHO I think if Jeff could make layups, Murphy would be the hands down backup. Jeff is tougher in the key areas. Murphy is a nice shooter and decent rebounder, but players go at him on defense the way they went at Peja. It is downright pathetic. I will never forget the Detroit game where the strategy was to give the ball to Sheed Wallace, and move everyone else out of the way. Murphy couldn't even slow him down. I really think the breakout year will belong to Jeff.

d_c

08-14-2007, 02:12 PM

There seems to be somewhat of a gross misconception here. Troy Murphy is not a center. He never will be a center. He does not play like a center either on offense or defense. He is a power forward.

Absolutely correct. You don't want Murphy being the last line of defense protecting the basket. He simply won't. He couldn't be a center in Nellie's system, and Nellie's a guy who once puta 6'7" Tom Tolbert at C against David Robinson in the playoffs (and won). So it's highly unlikely Murphy's going to be a center in anyone's system.

Another misconception is judging Murphy's performance purely by his stats and the number of double doubles he gets. His ability to put up good stats (in terms of points and rebounds) wasn't a problem at all in GS and wasn't why he got shopped around and eventually traded. Mullin spent a lot of time and energy trying to trade Murphy (a double double guy) for Harrington (a non-double double guy), so judging his performance simply in terms of his points/rebs in the boxscore isn't the best way to evaluate him.

rexnom

08-14-2007, 02:35 PM

I'm adding Dick Harter to the PD list of overrated things along with Kurt Thomas, Lindsay the cheerleader, and the prowess of guys like Delonte West. Everyone's acting like Dick Harter was the key addition to this team in the offseason. Sure, he'll be good for defense but he there is no way Harter can magically make Troy score more than he gives up. Troy has to became better defensively on his own. Hopefully he'll watch a lot of tapes this year and really, really work on his defense.

JayRedd

08-14-2007, 02:49 PM

I'm adding Dick Harter to the PD list of overrated things along with Kurt Thomas, Lindsay the cheerleader, and the prowess of guys like Delonte West.

Seriously guys, I know I'm pretty darn striking, but I'm not as ridiculously ridiculously good looking as yall make it out to be. It's flattering and all, but also starting to be somewhat embarrassing.

Seriously guys, I know I'm pretty darn striking, but I'm not as ridiculously ridiculously good looking as yall make it out to be. It's flattering and all, but also starting to be somewhat embarrassing.
Done and done...hotness. Btw, have you been using proactive lately?

bellisimo

08-14-2007, 05:40 PM

Done and done...hotness. Btw, have you been using proactive lately?

I sure hope so - I ordered a whole case for the PD crew right after I saw the photos from the forum parties...

Eindar

08-14-2007, 05:42 PM

I'm adding Dick Harter to the PD list of overrated things along with Kurt Thomas, Lindsay the cheerleader, and the prowess of guys like Delonte West. Everyone's acting like Dick Harter was the key addition to this team in the offseason. Sure, he'll be good for defense but he there is no way Harter can magically make Troy score more than he gives up. Troy has to became better defensively on his own. Hopefully he'll watch a lot of tapes this year and really, really work on his defense.

Actually, I disagree with this sentiment. He took a Pacers team that had a grand total of 2 good defenders and no less than 5 horrible defenders and turned them into a slightly above average defensive squad. Adding Dick Harter is a significant addition. You were around for his last stint here, right? I mean, the team improved markedly defensively when compared to Larry Brown, and that says something.

Anthem

08-14-2007, 06:02 PM

Heck, even if he's only decent, the improvement from Chuck will be impressive.

rexnom

08-14-2007, 06:12 PM

Actually, I disagree with this sentiment. He took a Pacers team that had a grand total of 2 good defenders and no less than 5 horrible defenders and turned them into a slightly above average defensive squad. Adding Dick Harter is a significant addition. You were around for his last stint here, right? I mean, the team improved markedly defensively when compared to Larry Brown, and that says something.
Year (Coach) - Points Against per 100 possessions (ranking)
93-94 (Brown) - Defense = 104.1 (8th)
94-95 (Brown) - Defense = 105.3 (6th)
95-96 (Brown) - Defense = 107.4 (13th)
96-97 (Brown) - Defense = 104.7 (12th)
97-98 (Bird/Harter) - Defense = 101.5 (5th)
98-99 (Bird/Harter) - Defense = 104.3 (23rd)
99-00 (Bird/Harter) - Defense = 103.5 (13th)

Average PA/100 under Brown = 105.4 (10th)
Average PA/100 under Bird/Harter = 103.1 (14th)
For comparison: Last year under Rick = 105.6 (10th)

Now, I want to follow this up with an acknowledgment that I was maybe too young to analyze the Brown era seriously. However, I remember the Bird era and I always thought to myself that we were nothing better than an average defensive team...at best.

Don't get me wrong, I think Harter is a great mind and will probably do wonders to some players' ability to play team defense but I just don't think we should act like he's going to wave some magic wand over our players and make them defensive aces. As you can see from Rick's last year, they're already mediocre-ish defenders.

Hicks

08-14-2007, 06:57 PM

Going from horrible to average is a big jump in the right direction for this defense. Well, we weren't horrible, but we were bad.

Cobol Sam

08-14-2007, 08:50 PM

Going from horrible to average is a big jump in the right direction for this defense. Well, we weren't horrible, but we were bad.

Sometimes we were horrible.

Naptown_Seth

08-15-2007, 12:47 AM

I don't know if he will or not, but if he doesn't in this system, then he never will. This system both offensively and defensively is taylor made for Murph
I totally agree.

The good news is it might help, the bad news is that if it doesn't his value drops like a rock with that contract around his neck still.

Mr.ThunderMakeR

08-15-2007, 04:01 AM

Ill keep it simple and do some copy and paste here:

Troy Murphy breaking out is about as likely as the P's going to the Finals next season.

bellisimo

08-15-2007, 04:36 AM

Ill keep it simple and do some copy and paste here:

Troy Murphy breaking out is about as likely as the P's going to the Finals next season.

I think it would be a good team building exercise to send all the Pacers players to the NCAA Final Four...just to remind 'em what it is to work as a team and yada-yada-yada....

Cobol Sam

08-15-2007, 10:26 AM

Ill keep it simple and do some copy and paste here:

Troy Murphy breaking out is about as likely as the P's going to the Finals next season.

On the bright side, if O'Brien's system can make Walker look decent, he can make Murphy look decent, and if anyone can get him to be a mediocre defender, it's Dick Harter.

Harter is also the guy that got Smits to defend the pick and roll effectively. If anybody can help him it'll be Coach Harter.

I'm more concerned about his health than his ability to defend. I think Troy is an average defender when he's healthy. He's also a much better player overall when he's healthy. We saw evidence of this when during the honeymoon phase right after the trade. Troy played well and rebounded the ball effectively. He then hurt his foot again and didn't respond well until the last week or so of the season.

If he can stay healthy, he'll have a better season. Whether he, JO, and Daniels stay healthy will be the difference between us winning 45 or 35 games.

JayRedd

08-19-2007, 07:41 PM

the bad news is that if it doesn't his value drops like a rock with that contract around his neck still.

What value?

Naptown_Seth

08-20-2007, 01:47 PM

What value?
Mark it down, I'm clearly not the most frustrated with Murphy fan at PD.
:)

Pacerized

08-20-2007, 09:21 PM

Mark it down, I'm clearly not the most frustrated with Murphy fan at PD.
:)

I would be happy to see Murphy traded for an expiring contract. He's the same player as Cro, but he has an even worse contract. They even play the same position since Murphy is clearly not a center. I would be happy to see Murphy traded for an expiring contract, but I know that's not going to happen. Since this next idea doesn't merit it's own thread I wonder how Murphy's value stacks up agains Howard. Howard has asked for a trade from Minn., and they've stated that if they could get equal value for him they would try to grant his wishes. Howard doesn't have a lot of value left outside of being a journeyman big man, but he only has next year left on his contract.

avoidingtheclowns

08-20-2007, 10:30 PM

i cant see minny doing that, given murphys contract length. they didn't even want odom for KG because it had 2yrs (at least that was the rumor). i see a deal to orlando more likely (bogans, garrity for howard perhaps) they still need some depth at PF and Minny wants exp contracts

CableKC

08-20-2007, 11:21 PM

Complaining bout Murphy's contract is like complaining about the rain....there's nothing that we can do about it.

No one is going to take him off our hands without getting an equally crappy contract in return.

Get used to Murphy becoming the Antoine Walker for JO'B.

LG33

08-20-2007, 11:27 PM

I heard Howard wants to win...

Pacerized

08-20-2007, 11:46 PM

I heard Howard wants to win...

He's stated that he was looking forward to playing with KG. I don't know how much winning he was planning on, but the Pacers offer a better chance then Minny did as they were constucted with KG.
I don't think he'd make a big difference. He'd just be a backup to J.O., but if we could lose Murphy's contract it would be worth it.
I also wonder what it would take to pry Hassle from Minn. Murphy, and Williams for Howard, and Hassle works salary wise.

Naptown_Seth

08-21-2007, 01:41 PM

The problem with moving Troy now is that JOB IS the coach and will want some legit 3pt firepower on the roster. Frustrating as he can be JOB does present a good opportunity for him to add value to the team (stiffle it Redd :) ).

JayRedd

08-21-2007, 01:54 PM

Frustrating as he can be JOB does present a good opportunity for him to add value to the team (stiffle it Redd :) ).

val·ue http://cache.lexico.com/g/d/premium.gif http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pnghttp://cache.lexico.com/g/d/speaker.gif (https://secure.reference.com/premium/login.html?rd=2&u=http%3A%2F%2Fdictionary.reference.com%2Fbrowse%2 Fvalue) /ˈvælhttp://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.pngyu/ [val-yoo] noun, verb, -ued, -u·ing.
–noun <TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>1.</TD><TD vAlign=top>relative worth, merit, or importance: the value of a college education; the value of a queen in chess. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>2.</TD><TD vAlign=top>monetary or material worth, as in commerce or trade: This piece of land has greatly increased in value. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>3.</TD><TD vAlign=top>the worth of something in terms of the amount of other things for which it can be exchanged or in terms of some medium of exchange. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>4.</TD><TD vAlign=top>equivalent worth or return in money, material, services, etc.: to give value for value received. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>5.</TD><TD vAlign=top>estimated or assigned worth; valuation: a painting with a current value of $500,000. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE class=luna-Ent><TBODY><TR><TD class=dn vAlign=top>6.</TD><TD vAlign=top>denomination, as of a monetary issue or a postage stamp. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>