plummet wrote:interesting discussion. Theres no bricks and mortor shop here. Just dudes selling kites out of their van and then working a normal day job. But the local market of 30-40 kiters is way to small to sustain a shop.

Anyway the cold hard reality of sales is that some people will be prepaired to pay the full price and some will not. The good saleman can add value and sell the product and also discern how much the customer is prepaired to pay and offer him an appropriate deal.

If you get mad at the guy whose bought the wet suit online and not from your shop then start to look in the mirror and question your own sales ability.

Yes 5% of something is still better than 30% of nothing.

I'm not suggesting that a shop drops its pants and sells at low margins. i'm suggesting that you need to upskill and learn how to find ways to sell that product to the bargin hunter. yourve goto get cunning and work out ways to draw the customer to you.

I like the kite inflation idea if you have a shop at the beach. buy my kite at full retail and get a years worth of free kite inflation.
live weather station and webcam... if you buy a kite of me heres a password to my private live online weather station and webcam....

I think that's a neat idea. Buying a certain amount of product per year (or just paying an annual fee) could make you a 'store vip' or whatever, giving you access to free pump ups, kite/gear cleaning and checkups, discounts, private surf cams and weather stations, free entry for store-run 'rum races', road trips to cool spots and other similar perks. Personally I'd pay decent money just to get access to accurate realtime beach weather data and webcams.

Worth noting that last time this topic came up here, last year or whenever it was, people who claimed to be in the business admitted to 40%+/- markups at both distributor and retail levels.
Most posting now seem to be claiming less markup, regardless of what they are claiming as the "true" final margin. Wish them all well in any case....

Every item is worth what the market is willing to pay for rather the sum of cost of all parts and its manufacturing.
It is as simple as that. You want a shop, a place to walk in and come back to talk to - it has it's price. You just want gear and kite - you'll buy it from a guy at the parking lot out of his trunk.

I personally don't care what the markup is and how the shop owner decides to run his ship. Good products + good service = good price. The benefit of 'saving' is often not related to the product you buy rather your follow up business: a board, harness, 2nd kite, ... or just a good advice NOT to buy the wrong gear.

But then - if you as a kiter have an off-the-grid-black-mesa attitude, the internet and truck-trunks of black market may be your universe to shine.

I guess the margins also very dependable on if a brand is using distributors or not. The brands not using them give the sellers a better margin. But ofcourse a distributor has its advantages aswell.
The brands margin isnt really big seeing what a kite from the factory costs and then the other costs like designers and maybe real teamriders and advertisement. Its not really that big

I talk alot with some shops in Europe and they have it hard. Most of them used to the Windsurfer attitude. "I need something, i will go to the shop and if they have what i want i'll buy. And maybe if i buy something extra i'll get a discount."
But the kitesurfers almost start with the question what price can you give me. i want 15% discount atleast.
And the one i think is very funny. People actually driving 200km back and forth for 50 euro less on a kite.

Personally i'm very lucky i have a great boss that sends me kites every season which i need to sell at the end of a season. And i dont need to buy them from shops anymore.
The last kite i bought from a shop was a green Best Waroo 13m 2007. After spending weeks to find the green one i bought it from the shop no discount but still a good price for exactly that kite i wanted to have and it was worth the money.

Each kite shop has different heads, such as wages, rent, eelctricity, insurance etc, intrest rate on money borrowed to pay for stock etc.

its very hard to figure out margins for different shops.

I use to sell kites and the mark up isn't great especialy if your carrying stock. with so many sizes and colours you often left with odd kites that eat into the margin of the other kites.

My misses ran a shoe shop, here markup was 300%. This left very little profit.
Here's and example
she buys boots for 100 and sells for 300
100 cost
64.50 VAT=21.5%
straight away your left with only left with 133.50
with this you must pay rent, wages, elec, phone, broadband, advertisng, rates, travel to trade/fashion shows, insurance, accountants, unsold stock, interest on money.

Having a watersports shop is lifestyle choice, its not a get rich plan.

you are not going to find much sympathy here on kf since majority of the active posters here are the persons affiliated to one brand or another. and they act systematically.
for example, if you have some complains about kite brand product quality they usually try to first discredit you. they ask if you are beginner and did you have a proper training. and the two or three of them would start seemingly spontaneous friendly discussion about goodness of product in question perfectly highjacking the thread.

same story here. almost immediately affiliated posters start to act by throwing "credible numbers strait from the source" and "concerned ordinary kiters" immediately responded by accepting the fair (by their honest opinion) prices level. some years ago there were some "heartbreaking confessions" about how hard is to provide for the family of the average kite seller. well, save it to the IRS auditor!

i bought half of my kites for the less then the half of the initial RDP. of course not in the first six months after the release, but still. and i didn't buy any kite for more than 1000USD. you can not charge so much money for the essentially disposable product!
and i bought my kites from the shop not from the guy with kites in the trunk of his car.
guys who selling kites from the trunks of their car or from their garages are really preying on peoples passion. sounds like the world's oldest profession to me...