If I may add a bit to this thread. Images do not exist. What exist is just the interpertation of random points of light, and in the case of digital, numbers collected and displayed on paper or CRT/LCD. If we take any single point, it is just that, or several or even a collection. They are just points of ink or light, what we create out of them is unique and in our mind. Remember Edward Weston's B&W of the bell peper that looked to some as a nude with her legs curled under and head hidden by her body-----or was that just me? he most likely had the pepper with dinner that evening. To belabour my point, we create our values based on our history and culture but it is not a given that what we see is real(based on the influences in our life)We are lied to daily, to get our money(adverts) and support. Truth is the hardest commodity to find and easy to loose.If you don't like what your mind sees, ask yourself why before being offended by a random pattern of dots on a page, it may well be all in your head. Wyndham[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I know what you are getting at. One could go one step further and declare that nothing exists, except as a collection of atoms and molecules. What these collections of atoms and molecules really are, is always subject to interpretation. We often falsely assume that attributes which really exist only in our imaginations actually have an external reality, like the color 'green' for example.

If I may add a bit to this thread. Images do not exist. What exist is just the interpertation of random points of light, and in the case of digital, numbers collected and displayed on paper or CRT/LCD. If we take any single point, it is just that, or several or even a collection. They are just points of ink or light, what we create out of them is unique and in our mind. Remember Edward Weston's B&W of the bell peper that looked to some as a nude with her legs curled under and head hidden by her body-----or was that just me? he most likely had the pepper with dinner that evening. To belabour my point, we create our values based on our history and culture but it is not a given that what we see is real(based on the influences in our life)We are lied to daily, to get our money(adverts) and support. Truth is the hardest commodity to find and easy to loose.If you don't like what your mind sees, ask yourself why before being offended by a random pattern of dots on a page, it may well be all in your head. Wyndham[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110099\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I don't think images are made of random points of light at all. They would be just noise.

If they were random and existed only in our minds, why do so many dofferent people see the same image? They may react differnetly, but I think most people who see Adams' "Moon Rise" see the moon above some hills with clouds and a town.

Even Weston's Bell Pepper es seen by a lot of people as just that, a bell pepper.

Interesting thing about truth, truth doesn't care what anybody thinks about it. Truth cares not that I, or anyone else, think it is true.

Interesting thing about truth, truth doesn't care what anybody thinks about it. Truth cares not that I, or anyone else, think it is true.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110128\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

So my interpretation of this comment from you, Howard, is that you consider that you know what truth is. Right?

Bear in mind that any reply must not contravene the rules of 'no religious discussion'.

I agree. I was sort of hoping Howard would think of a way of replying to my question without bringing religion into the debate .[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110430\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ray - I don't want to attack anyone for having their personal beliefs, even if they are different to my own; at the end of the day we are all struggling to come to terms with a reality that is so huge that none of us has really got the slightest idea of what it's all about. We see ourselves in the mirror so we have fairly convincing proof that we exist and as we can see others, then they too seem real enough (God only knows how somebody born blind can come to terms with life).

The trouble with ALL prescribed religion that I've ever heard of is that it claims to have the inside track, to offer the real deal, as it were. I believe the best we can ever hope to do is to live life without upsetting too many people or dinner tables and to hope that others treat us with the same respect. This isn't as easy to do as it might seem - some invite attack and others martyrdom; I seek neither!

However, it's damn nice to be alive; even when the going gets difficult there are compensations enough if we but seek them out. I don't know if I include Photoshop there yet...

The trouble with ALL prescribed religion that I've ever heard of is that it claims to have the inside track, to offer the real deal, as it were. [a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110568\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Agreed! But these sorts of discussions have cropped up before and it's almost certain that Michael will close the thread if we head in this direction.

Agreed! But these sorts of discussions have cropped up before and it's almost certain that Michael will close the thread if we head in this direction.[a href=\"index.php?act=findpost&pid=110578\"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Ray - I guess the thread is all but unwound right now; pics that offend will always be made by intent or by accident because there will always be those who want to shock as there will always be those who see everything in a poor light regardless of what the original intention might or might not have been.

Just let's be thankful that we still live in a society where a fair degree of freedom does still exist; it might be a little frayed at the edges, abused more than a little by our 'leaders' and by the rest of that tribe which feels itself duty-bound to regulate the rest of us.

...abused more than a little by our 'leaders' and by the rest of that tribe which feels itself duty-bound to regulate the rest of us.[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Now that's more than a little unfair. I think it's well established that the Republicans firmly believe that government should stay out of your private life — except when you're doing something they don't like.