john wrote;Remember, they represent all of us and, in the absence of any wrongdoing (not to be confused with occasionally voting against our wishes), deserve our respect.

but then john wrote;without loving a fascist vice president or war-criminal torture-apologist

Revealing his disingenuous nature. Not much respect for those two particular elected guys.And before you try to excuse your insincerity, the two guys elected to represent us that you're blatantly disrespecting were never charged with a crime much less convicted. So what, being convicted in your mind is all the burden of proof needed for you to be allowed to disrespect them, is that it? Or is it just as I said? The (R) behind their name is all you need to convict. Did you think I would only read your response to me and would not notice your contradictory statement in the post two spaces above it?

And frankly john, I do not believe you, not even a little bit. If Clive Bundy were the chairman of the Nevada Democratic Party and the other U.S. Senator from Nevada(Dean Heller(R)) was the one pulling the shady shiite, you would be pulling out all the stops to defend his position, and decrying the use of swat teams and helos. Because you are a party patsy.

Well.................here we go again, preparing for another year, year and a half of intense lies, cheating and deception from those who wanna-be the Man, or the Woman in the oval office! Doesn't matter what they call themselves, GOP or Dem or whatever. Americans will be tricked into thinking that they all have different agenda's, when in reality they're all the same. Same old same old.

But, people are catching on. I'm hearing that over half the American people don't think much of either political gang. Who knows, maybe the majority of Americans will boycott the next elections.

john wrote;Remember, they represent all of us and, in the absence of any wrongdoing (not to be confused with occasionally voting against our wishes), deserve our respect.

but then john wrote;without loving a fascist vice president or war-criminal torture-apologist

Revealing his disingenuous nature. [Blah, blah, blah.] Because you are a party patsy.

You vainly try to put words in your opposition's mouth.

Tell me, does your own philosophy make you an anarchist or merely the kind of extremist who stands ready to overthrow any governments he disagrees with?

To the moderate majority that sees elections and voting as the proper way to change governments, there isn't much difference and they would quickly support the prompt suppression of either faction by proper authorities.

We see armed warlord factions (like the masked militiamen in eastern Ukraine) plenty often enough to remind us that they are not a model we will ever want to follow.

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

The right of a nation to kill a tyrant, in cases of necessity, can no more be doubted, than to hang a robber, or kill a flea. But killing one tyrant only makes way for worse, unless the people have sense, spirit and honesty enough to establish and support a constitution guarded at all points against the tyranny of the one, the few, and the many.JOHN ADAMS

Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.

Brian M wrote:"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

The right of a nation to kill a tyrant, in cases of necessity, can no more be doubted, than to hang a robber, or kill a flea. But killing one tyrant only makes way for worse, unless the people have sense, spirit and honesty enough to establish and support a constitution guarded at all points against the tyranny of the one, the few, and the many.JOHN ADAMS

If you subscribe to the violent overthrow of a government you don't like, as I asked elsewhere, who gives you the signal to strike?

And are you willing to suffer the consequences if the moderate majority and their elected government find you wrong?

Brian M wrote:"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

The right of a nation to kill a tyrant, in cases of necessity, can no more be doubted, than to hang a robber, or kill a flea. But killing one tyrant only makes way for worse, unless the people have sense, spirit and honesty enough to establish and support a constitution guarded at all points against the tyranny of the one, the few, and the many.JOHN ADAMS

If you subscribe to the violent overthrow of a government you don't like, as I asked elsewhere, who gives you the signal to strike?

And are you willing to suffer the consequences if the moderate majority and their elected government find you wrong?

I don't subscribe to a "violent overthrow" just because I don't like it. I do support a constitution. It is possible to create a tyrannical government, I would hope the "many" would decide when/if we have created that here and act at the pols first. We should always keep our government in check so we are not on the verge of tyranny, that could be too late for the average voting citizen.

Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.

Brian M wrote:"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

The right of a nation to kill a tyrant, in cases of necessity, can no more be doubted, than to hang a robber, or kill a flea. But killing one tyrant only makes way for worse, unless the people have sense, spirit and honesty enough to establish and support a constitution guarded at all points against the tyranny of the one, the few, and the many.JOHN ADAMS

If you subscribe to the violent overthrow of a government you don't like, as I asked elsewhere, who gives you the signal to strike?

And are you willing to suffer the consequences if the moderate majority and their elected government find you wrong?

I don't subscribe to a "violent overthrow" just because I don't like it. I do support a constitution. It is possible to create a tyrannical government, I would hope the "many" would decide when/if we have created that here and act at the pols first. We should always keep our government in check so we are not on the verge of tyranny, that could be too late for the average voting citizen.

The first step is speaking out and making your viewpoints heard by others, this doesn't need to wait until an election year and need not even be about an election at all. And it doesn't matter if you're part of a minority or even the only person you know with a certain viewpoint, you are still allowed to have a voice and in fact it's a responsibility as a good citizen. You suffer from a common liberal short-coming, john, thinking that doing what's right is a popularity contest and liberty is a variable that can be decided on and changed by consensus. True liberty is an uncorruptable singular state of being.

Edit: uncorruptable...incorruptible? Whatever... Point is liberty is not decide by majority vote nor by a fallible human judge (even SC), liberty just is.

Last edited by twelves hewes on April 27th, 2014, 4:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

The first step is speaking out and making your viewpoints heard by others, this doesn't need to wait until an election year and need not even be about an election at all. And it doesn't matter if you're part of a minority or even the only person you know with a certain viewpoint, you are still allowed to have a voice and in fact it's a responsibility as a good citizen. ...

So, beyond elections, you believe in "speaking out and making your viewpoints heard."

Good for you. I couldn't agree more. That's "old school" and not very extremist.

The first step is speaking out and making your viewpoints heard by others, this doesn't need to wait until an election year and need not even be about an election at all. And it doesn't matter if you're part of a minority or even the only person you know with a certain viewpoint, you are still allowed to have a voice and in fact it's a responsibility as a good citizen. ...

So, beyond elections, you believe in "speaking out and making your viewpoints heard."

Good for you. I couldn't agree more. That's "old school" and not very extremist.

Brian M wrote:"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

The right of a nation to kill a tyrant, in cases of necessity, can no more be doubted, than to hang a robber, or kill a flea. But killing one tyrant only makes way for worse, unless the people have sense, spirit and honesty enough to establish and support a constitution guarded at all points against the tyranny of the one, the few, and the many.JOHN ADAMS

If you subscribe to the violent overthrow of a government you don't like, as I asked elsewhere, who gives you the signal to strike?

And are you willing to suffer the consequences if the moderate majority and their elected government find you wrong?

I don't subscribe to a "violent overthrow" just because I don't like it. I do support a constitution. It is possible to create a tyrannical government, I would hope the "many" would decide when/if we have created that here and act at the pols first. We should always keep our government in check so we are not on the verge of tyranny, that could be too late for the average voting citizen.

How do you keep it "in check," beyond elections?

What actions would you take?

How do you decide you're not just a tiny minority (like now)?

There is emails, letters, phone to representatives. There is impeachment. The Framers of our country provided methods to amend the Constitution too. Was Egypt a "violent overthrow"? Keeping a government in check mostly consists of being involved in the process/politics... something many Americans are not. About 40% of Americans did not vote in the last major national election and usually more than half do not vote in "mid-term" elections.

I think I already explained the "actions" I would take.

Yes, 1 person is a tiny minority. ... "(like now)" ? Polls in the last fifteen years has shown: 56% of Americans are “conservative,” while 40% are “liberal,”. I do consider myself on the conservative side of the political spectrum, so if that's what you mean by a tiny minority... ok

Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.