hardinparamedic:noitsnot: Fun that you threw in some crazy talk at the end, though. So, when you retire, you're going to pay cash for all your medical expenses then? Because Medicare is just welfare queens mooching?

Acutally, it's not crazy talk. It's documented fact that the majority of cost to medicare is from preventable diseases.

And the right-wing concept of "Welfare Queens" have nothing to do with the fact that most of medicare expenditures in the United States are for a very small, very select group of diseases, namely COPD/Emphysema (Completely preventable in 99% of patients who have it - caused by cigarette smoking, the other 1% have an inborn protein deficiency), Heart Disease and Congestive Heart Failure (Again, Cigarette Smoking and diet), and Type II Diabetes.

Add in the fact that people languish for years (decades) in nursing homes, kept alive by feeding tubes and ventilators, when they have no quality of life and no hope for recovery rather than engaging families in end of life and hospice care planning that is not only far more humane for the victim of a disease like alzheimers, but also better for the families and society at large, and there is a pretty huge flaw in the entire system.

That's nothing to do with Medicare. Regular insurance covers it, so Medicare does too. We all pay for it via higher insurance premiums as well as higher taxes.

noitsnot: P.S. How is there are hard math to being a dietician? You have to do some freshman statistics?

Calculation of TPN and Lipid composition is freshman statistics, apparently.

I'm sorry, but there's no math in that at all. It's just a bunch of instructions to follow. Flowcharts are just a way to graphically express instructions. You probably have to look some stuff up in some tables in some books - but nobody is doing any math there.

JeffKochosky:Diogenes: theorellior: gopher321: Silverstone has been rather vocal about her unique parenting style since the birth of her son, Bear Blu

I have an acquaintance who named her son "Bear". I don't quite get the logic, but whatevs. So far I've resisted the urge to say things like, "Feeling cranky and fussy? Better drink my own piss!"

Reminds me of a punchline for a joke. I forget the full flow of the joke narrative but it essentially had to do with Indian women competing to have the strongest son with the chief by conceiving on rugs made of animal hides. Bear was the best because, "The son of the squa on the one hide is equal to the sons of the squas on the other two hides."

I'm gonna have to try and track that one down - I love stories with a PUNch line. Here are a few of my favorites:

"Better Nate than lever"

"People who live in grass houses shouldn't stow thrones"

"If the foo shiats, wear it"

Of course, my favorite bad story joke isn't even a pun - it's the story of The 99 Steps, and on a good day, I can spend over 20 minutes telling the story... just to end with the punch line "Corn flakes are more popular than scrambled eggs."

Pray 4 Mojo:mike_d85: From all reports (4th or 5th hand) that I've seen, human is basically equivalent to pork. When you kill a pig, you have to bleed it right away or the meat tastes foul. Now I'm making a conjecture based on rumor and second hand knowlege, but I'm going to guess you didn't bleed your kill right away and it spoiled your meat.

That's actually what happened. I humped her corpse a few times before I got hungry.

George Babbitt:StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

noitsnot:That's nothing to do with Medicare. Regular insurance covers it, so Medicare does too. We all pay for it via higher insurance premiums as well as higher taxes.

Around 300 Billion Dollars says it has a lot to do with medicare. The fact that regular insurance "covers" it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it's very preventable. Unfortunately, right-wing shills for tobacco companies like to tout "personal freedoms" with none of the responsibility it entails.

StaleCoffee:My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

The only exemption should be that your kids have an allergy to the vaccine or vaccine component, or have a legitimate medical reason not to be vaccinated.

Your original argument was based on their "immune system time to develop", ignoring the fact that the reason vaccinations are done at that age are so that children do not die of the diseases that target them at that age. Or the fact that their immune system didn't need that time to develop, period.

StaleCoffee:George Babbitt: StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

You're ignorant and you're farking up the world for the rest of our children.

hardinparamedic:noitsnot: That's nothing to do with Medicare. Regular insurance covers it, so Medicare does too. We all pay for it via higher insurance premiums as well as higher taxes.

Around 300 Billion Dollars says it has a lot to do with medicare. The fact that regular insurance "covers" it is irrelevant. The relevant fact is that it's very preventable. Unfortunately, right-wing shills for tobacco companies like to tout "personal freedoms" with none of the responsibility it entails.

Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

hardinparamedic:StaleCoffee: My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

The only exemption should be that your kids have an allergy to the vaccine or vaccine component, or have a legitimate medical reason not to be vaccinated.

Your original argument was based on their "immune system time to develop", ignoring the fact that the reason vaccinations are done at that age are so that children do not die of the diseases that target them at that age. Or the fact that their immune system didn't need that time to develop, period.

No, we didn't ignore that. We felt more comfortable with the Hep vaxes on the tail end of the CDC scheduling, but that requires an exemption. Feel free to assume I'm ignorant and an anti-vaxer though, everyone else is.

YixilTesiphon:StaleCoffee: George Babbitt: StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

You're ignorant and you're farking up the world for the rest of our children.

If your kids die because of Hep B that's not likely to be my fault, but doing some reading yourself is probably a little too much effort compared to throwing the word ignorant around I suppose.

StaleCoffee:legion_of_doo: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

I'd guess that ship has already sailed, anyway.

Yep, it sailed.

It's easy to shiat on people from across the internet but my kids are doing fine. They even play outside and build forts in the woods. Amazing.

Good for you, and them.

Not enough parents let kids be kids. Not enough digging in the dirt, wading in creeks, riding bikes, and climbing trees.Too much regimentation of time and activities.They turn being a kid into a job.

Gee... if your body isn't able to produce enough breast milk, it's probably starved for nutrients. I wonder which food groups a vegan diet could possibly be ignoring... hmm....

/was raised vegetarian//had to convert to an animal meat diet after getting very sick///it was a VEGAN dietician who had me go on the meat diet.////meat rocks! Tastes awesome. Good for the body too... in moderation, of course, as everything in life.

noitsnot:The idea is that for a vegan, eating fried chicken is just as abhorrent as it would be for you to eat a baby. Which I find very doubtful. Sure, I'm not a vegan, so I can't claim to know their feelings

Anyone who thinks that is a crazy person, vegan or not. I don't even mind if people eat meat, to be totally honest. What you do with your body is none of my concern. If you want to make a sandwich entirely out of steak with steak for bread and held together with cheese and bacon, that's your choice.

Some people can't eat a vegan diet. Some people can't or won't eat a omnivore diet. A lot of vegans are indeed holier-than-thou about their diet, and it sucks. It makes everyone look bad but it's outside the authourity of the Vegan Police.

Factory farmed meat, which is what 99% of you are eating, is a biological and regulatory nightmare. Ethics aside, it's what made me cut out meat from my diet 13 years ago. I noticed a decline in the quality of meat I was getting and then read a news snippet about how they'd cut back the regulations on what's considered "safe for human consumption". I haven't eaten meat since. I cut out the eggs and dairy at the beginning of 2012.

Sorry I left the thread, I was teaching a spin class at lunchtime. You know, with my super-weak constitution and frail body.

Wangiss:machoprogrammer: theMagni: nocturnal001: y bigger question is how many Vegans have cats or dogs? Do they feed them soyfood?

My dog eats meat. I don't. I'm not an animal. I can make choices that a dog can't.

Magorn: Attention Vegan Women: producing breat milk is one of the basic functions of a female human body. when a woman's body stops producing enough of it, it is a clear sign something is VERY VERY wrong. Usually only happens when the woman is STARVING to death.

Some women just don't make milk. It doesn't matter what their diet is. My ex produced plenty. One of her friends (on an omnivore diet) couldn't make a drop, even with the industrial pump they have at the hospital.

Brittabot: But you CANNOT do that shiat to your kids! Children cannot thrive on a vegan diet. Vegetarian? Probably ok, but not vegan. They simply will not get the nutrients they need to develop properly physically or mentally.

What nutrients would they be missing? My kids have been in the 99th percentile for mental and physical development since they were born. Based on what you're posting, my nine-year-old can read better than you.

I find that vegans' hearts are in the right place but they are generally misguided (as are most people in industrialized countries) about the methods and ethics of food production due to propaganda.

Let me start by saying that factory farming is horrible, it is destructive, disgusting, cruel, and respects neither the dignity of people nor of animals. The problem is that, in America at least, just as much plant biomass is factory farmed as animal biomass. Probably more.

Now, we can quibble about factory farming being worse when it comes to animals than to plants (I would agree), but the difference in degree of sustainability and destruction between factory farming plants and animals is small compared the gulf between factory farming anything and not factory farming at all.

The truth is, widespread veganism is possible only with industrial farming, which destroys untold swaths of diverse land, annihilates ecosystems (including all the animals that live there) and requires an obscenely large input of oil for artificial fertilizer and brute force mechanical work. It is neither better nor more sustainable that NON-factory farming food productions methods that REQUIRE animal input/output in order to achieve the necessary per land productivity levels to feed current and future populations.

Sustainable and environmentally friendly food can only be grown by cleverly orchestrating the nutrient cycling the occurs in nature between plants and animals. They cannot be separated, plants live with and eat animals just as animals live with and eat plants.

We also should eat MORE beef (for example) than we do now as a % of meat consumption. It doesn't have to be beef, just about any large grazer will do. There is simply nothing more efficient than a runiment for converting sunlight into human nutrition through grass. Pigs and Chickens should not make up the bulk of our diet, they are traditionally the farm's clean-up crew and a rare treat.

No one should mistreat animals, and doing so is indefensible, but in order for one organism to live, others must die. This is an inescapable facet of the universe. One day we will die to feed the plants, and then they will feed animals and so on.

You've given everyone the ammunition to do both when you talk about delaying the vaccination schedule to "give his immune system time to develop". Immunity doesn't work like that.

StaleCoffee:If your kids die because of Hep B that's not likely to be my fault, but doing some reading yourself is probably a little too much effort compared to throwing the word ignorant around I suppose.

noitsnot:Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

StaleCoffee:YixilTesiphon: StaleCoffee: George Babbitt: StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

You're ignorant and you're farking up the world for the rest of our children.

If your kids die because of Hep B that's not likely to be my fault, but doing some reading yourself is probably a little too much effort compared to throwing the word ignorant around I suppose.

Hep B was kind of a lame one to pick unless your kids hang around with vagrants and junkies.

give me doughnuts:StaleCoffee: legion_of_doo: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

I'd guess that ship has already sailed, anyway.

Yep, it sailed.

It's easy to shiat on people from across the internet but my kids are doing fine. They even play outside and build forts in the woods. Amazing.

Good for you, and them.

Not enough parents let kids be kids. Not enough digging in the dirt, wading in creeks, riding bikes, and climbing trees.Too much regimentation of time and activities.They turn being a kid into a job.

/onion, belt, lawn, off

No shiat.

We've had parents show up with their kids to the school garden one time, then they never return. The complaint?

They thought it was more structured. Unspoken was they did the work, not the elementary school age children.

It's garden time. Let them explored the bugs and slugs and centipedes and snails and all the fun stuff.

noitsnot: Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

Well, spell out what your beef against medicare is then, because I can't understand what you mean.

noitsnot: Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

Well, spell out what your beef against medicare is then, because I can't understand what you mean.

He means most people in the hospital are there because of poor choices, like obesity, smoking and/or driving a car/motorcycle without seat belts/helmets.

And that America is not good about dealing with death. We keep people alive for months (using technologies that cause all kinds of additional health issues, like ventilators) instead of acknowledging that there is no more that can be done for them and just let them go in peace.

Just today I read a story about long-term care insurance. So many people have it and the costs of long-term care are so gigantic, insurance companies are now jacking up premiums astronomically (like 80%) on existing customers or telling them to accept less coverage in exchange for slightly less astronomical increases (45%).

noitsnot: Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

Well, spell out what your beef against medicare is then, because I can't understand what you mean.

He means most people in the hospital are there because of poor choices, like obesity, smoking and/or driving a car/motorcycle without seat belts/helmets.

And that America is not good about dealing with death. We keep people alive for months (using technologies that cause all kinds of additional health issues, like ventilators) instead of acknowledging that there is no more that can be done for them and just let them go in peace.

Just today I read a story about long-term care insurance. So many people have it and the costs of long-term care are so gigantic, insurance companies are now jacking up premiums astronomically (like 80%) on existing customers or telling them to accept less coverage in exchange for slightly less astronomical increases (45%).

noitsnot: Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

Well, spell out what your beef against medicare is then, because I can't understand what you mean.

He means most people in the hospital are there because of poor choices, like obesity, smoking and/or driving a car/motorcycle without seat belts/helmets.

And that America is not good about dealing with death. We keep people alive for months (using technologies that cause all kinds of additional health issues, like ventilators) instead of acknowledging that there is no more that can be done for them and just let them go in peace.

Just today I read a story about long-term care insurance. So many people have it and the costs of long-term care are so gigantic, insurance companies are now jacking up premiums astronomically (like 80%) on existing customers or telling them to accept less coverage in exchange for slightly less astronomical increases (45%).

Someone gets it. Thank you.

With the understanding that I'm not saying don't treat people or let gramma die because she's costing money.

Just sayin', Americans are overall in shiatty-ass health because U.S. corporations sell unhealthy choices because selling excess and instant gratification always makes more money than telling people NOT to eat tacos at 2 AM. And insurance companies certainly don't care if people are in bad health, as long as they're getting their fat premiums.

Smelly Pirate Hooker:With the understanding that I'm not saying don't treat people or let gramma die because she's costing money.

No, I'm not saying that either. But what I am saying is that there comes a point when there is no hope for recovery, and no quality of life other than what's being pumped into you through a rubber straw, when maybe it's not as cruel, or as costly to let nature do what it wanted to.

hardinparamedic:Smelly Pirate Hooker: With the understanding that I'm not saying don't treat people or let gramma die because she's costing money.

No, I'm not saying that either. But what I am saying is that there comes a point when there is no hope for recovery, and no quality of life other than what's being pumped into you through a rubber straw, when maybe it's not as cruel, or as costly to let nature do what it wanted to.

noitsnot: Well, good luck trying to get medical costs that stem from poor choices eliminated from coverage. Keep us up to speed on how that goes.

I equally wish you luck with your crippling lack of adult reading comprehension. There is no need to suffer in silence, and many community colleges offer free adult remedial reading classes. I'd personally start with learning the definition of the word "prevent", and going from there.

Well, spell out what your beef against medicare is then, because I can't understand what you mean.

He means most people in the hospital are there because of poor choices, like obesity, smoking and/or driving a car/motorcycle without seat belts/helmets.

And that America is not good about dealing with death. We keep people alive for months (using technologies that cause all kinds of additional health issues, like ventilators) instead of acknowledging that there is no more that can be done for them and just let them go in peace.

Just today I read a story about long-term care insurance. So many people have it and the costs of long-term care are so gigantic, insurance companies are now jacking up premiums astronomically (like 80%) on existing customers or telling them to accept less coverage in exchange for slightly less astronomical increases (45%).

Someone gets it. Thank you.

... aaaannnnd that has what to do with Medicare? Because your original puzzling outburst was against Medicare:

"Medicare is a 527 billion dollar a year sink-hole based on personal freedom to disregard experts and the consequences there of. "

So, I understand what Mr./Ms. Hooker apparently psychically read out of your brain, but I still don't understand what point you are trying to make about Medicare specifically.

So, I understand what Mr./Ms. Hooker apparently psychically read out of your brain, but I still don't understand what point you are trying to make about Medicare specifically.

That Medicare (and Medicaid too) costs so much because Americans are in bad shape. Not that hard to figure out. Not sure why it popped up in a breastfeeding thread, but it's more interesting than what usually happens in a breastfeeding thread, so I went with it.

Jument:The idea of feeding a cat or dog vegan is stupid. So is the idea of feeding them a healthy diet. They are designed to eat whatever the hell they can get their teeth into. If you want to feed them "as nature intended", be prepared to be grossed out. Think whole live rodents and a fair bit of carrion. Yum!

Personally I feed pets whatever standard pet food agrees with them and is recommended by my vet and don't give it a second thought.

I don't think the idea of feeding a cat or dog a healthy diet is crazy. For cats and dogs, whole rats, whole rabbits, whole birds *are* a healthy diet. There are people who feed their cats whole rats and mice. I feed my dog all parts of chicken other than feathers, head, and guts (because that is how whole chickens are sold at the store...). I know people who go out of their way to buy green beef tripe (which would be the stomach of a cow with the contents, not cooked in any way) for their dog. Certainly not for everyone, which is why they make commercial dry/wet pet food.

StaleCoffee:YixilTesiphon: StaleCoffee: George Babbitt: StaleCoffee: You're the jerk... jerk: StaleCoffee: We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time

Stupid or troll? It is obvious you did not investigate this issue by looking at pier reviewed journals

So did that ship sail or what?

Carry on troll.

How did his kids attend school? Mine were required to have all their vaccinations, for their age, before the first day.

My kids were the ones with vax exemptions. You sign a piece of paper that says "We wish to exempt our children from vaccines" and then you don't hear about it again unless a new nurse is hired and loses the paperwork.

You're ignorant and you're farking up the world for the rest of our children.

If your kids die because of Hep B that's not likely to be my fault, but doing some reading yourself is probably a little too much effort compared to throwing the word ignorant around I suppose.

Yes, but if my baby dies from whooping cough before s/he (finding out on Friday, hopefully) can be vaccinated, that IS a situation it sounds like you've contributed to.

I think it's your choice whether or not to vaccinate your kids. I just don't want my kids going to daycares, doctor's offices, or schools that your kids are at if you don't.

So, I understand what Mr./Ms. Hooker apparently psychically read out of your brain, but I still don't understand what point you are trying to make about Medicare specifically.

That Medicare (and Medicaid too) costs so much because Americans are in bad shape. Not that hard to figure out. Not sure why it popped up in a breastfeeding thread, but it's more interesting than what usually happens in a breastfeeding thread, so I went with it.

And that's MISS Smelly Pirate Hooker to you.

You're putting words in Hardinparamedic's mouth. Sure, he grabbed for the life preserver you threw him, but I would much rather hear his thoughts from him.

I'm not disputing the idea that people smoke and get fat and thereby cost the rest of us money when treated through public welfare programs (or by any other means).

What I wanted to know was - Why, in a thread about veganism, did Hardinparamedic suddenly throw in some rant about Medicare and emphysema and 527 billion dollars and euthanasia for old people and tobacco companies?

Was he trying to imply that people who live unhealthy lifestyles should get less benefit from Medicare? I don't know - he won't tell me.

tuna fingers:I do not agree with this sentiment at all. Doctors and hospitals have their own agendas that may not coincide with the patient's needs. For instance, did you try to have a natural (drug-free) birth?

We have a 1 year old, and every couple in our Bradley class that delivered in a hospital did not get the desired drug-free birth. Zero for nine.

We had a home birth to avoid that.

While I agree that doctors and hospitals have their own agenda, and that one has to use their own intelligence when being treated, I understand why most people want to go to a hospital for childbirth.

When my son was born, he had his fist up by his head. My wife was becoming exhausted and finally relented to having an epidural. With the epidural she relaxed and almost immediately my son moved a stage closer to birth.

I don't know about other places but there are plenty of hospitals in New England that have excellent maternity wards. They'll be as drug free as you want but if there's an emergency you don't have to rush to the hospital or wait for an EMT or anything. We found as with any situation that some professionals are more adept than others and you just have to keep your wits about you.

StaleCoffee:We're in NJ and exempt from vax laws not because we don't believe in vaccines but we wanted to wait until our kids were older and their immune systems had more time to develop. Call me a nutter, fine, but I have farked up a lot of things in my life, I want to be careful not to fark up my kids too badly. I know all the arguments in both directions but I think immunizing our kids from 7 to 12 is a reasonable frame of time.

1. The whole point of the vaccination is because a child's immune system needs the help.2. If you've farked up a lot of other things in your life, perhaps you should be listening to the advice of professionals instead of doing your own thinking about 7 - 12 being a reasonable time frame.3. As far as knowing all the arguments in both directions there is only one direction valid arguments are coming from. Vaccination does not cause autism. Vaccination prevents (potentially) deadly diseases. Yes, there is a very small risk of a negative reaction but there is a greater risk to your child, your other children if you have more than one, and to the children of others who have contact with your children.

I read an article about someone doing a study on deer and they followed deer using night-vision cameras. They found that some of the deer that they were following actively chased partridge or quail chicks and ate them.

The only downside is that your bodily fluids (sweat, urine, etc) end up smelling like maple syrup. You get tired of being asked who made pancakes.

Or Indian food. I had low supply and tried Fenugreek for a while (it did jack shiat) and my husband eventually forced me to stop taking it, because he said it was like sleeping next to an Indian restaurant.