Originally posted by MatsuI still think the war was a good one in my Machiavellian apraisal, but I was never deluded by WOMD, nukes, or freedom.

ditto me on that as well.
there is no question in my mind
that the world is better off
without that prick being in power,
however, the real question will
be to see if iraq is able to join
the rest of the world or fall
into a worse situation than before.

Second, bullshit. The CIA has _nothing_ to gain by fabricating intelligence suggesting Iraq is an immediate threat to anyone (except mb Iran). The Admin presented only 'facts' that furthered their quest for oil, er, war, and swept the vast piles of evidence to the contrary under the carpet. Ditto for England. This was a conscious, deliberate, calculated move.

Pinning it all on the intelligence agencies is a cheap shot, designed to pass the blame to those who aren't voted in/out of power.

"The White House statement fanned a smoldering controversy over whether the U.S. and British governments manipulated intelligence about weapons of mass destruction to make the case for war against Iraq. So far, no evidence of such weapons has been found by U.S. and coalition forces."

Read my lips! 4 more years. No, W is getting re-elected, he make too many conservatives happy to get tossed. Plus, despite naysayers his team is too savy to get trounced by the stones thrown at his administration. What Bush may lack in intellectualism he more than makes up for in his saviness.

As for bad intelligence, I can believe that, our foreign intelligence as of late has had to rely heavily on outside sources, most of our intelligence community for the past 50 years has been focused internally.

As for the reasons we went to Iraq, the administration went to prove a point, that the USA could still kick some ass. Was it right politically, I don't know, but screw the French and the Germans, they were playing their own political games to secure their economic interests in Iraq, they didn't have a moral leg to stand on from the word go.

War is ugly, I'd prefer if it went the way of the dodo, esp since they are still sending SF into Iraq, I've got family that I'd rather see out of harm's way.

"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...

"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

Its all lies! How dare you say something negative about our great leader Bush, the president, who have shown huge courage and will lead our great country into a bright future by showing a firm stance against all our enemies. Bush could never lie to our population</kraig911>errr....no make that</Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf>

"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush

"I reject your reality and substitute it with my own" - President Bush

Originally posted by AndersIts all lies! How dare you say something negative about our great leader Bush, the president, who have shown huge courage and will lead our great country into a bright future by showing a firm stance against all our enemies. Bush could never lie to our population</kraig911>errr....no make that</Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf>

Remember this Bush campaign slogan: I WILL RESTORE HONOR AND INTEGRITY TO THE WHITE HOUSE!

Man, I miss the good ol' days when we were all arguing about the legality of a blowjob while checking to see how much our portfolios went up.

EDIT: TYPO

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."

"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."

Originally posted by AndersIts all lies! How dare you say something negative about our great leader Bush, the president, who have shown huge courage and will lead our great country into a bright future by showing a firm stance against all our enemies. Bush could never lie to our population</kraig911>errr....no make that</Mohammed Said al-Sahhaf>

Since when did Sweden, Denmark & Finland become states of the USA ?
Or is that the United States of Anders ?

Good old days, my arse. Back then I was a poor skinny asian college student that had trouble getting laid, these days I'm still a poor skinny asian college student having trouble getting laid, little less hair and a lot more bills now. Right now I'd like to be in a good ol' daze.

While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Originally posted by Immanuel GoldsteinWhile I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Yep..that just about sums it all up...Pity America didn't do it for Hitler..and all the other apologists & appeasers of the third reich.
End of discussion Click....

Yes, but the possibility of him still being alive and having got away with all that cash, and who knows what else may make Saddam even more dangerous. Hopefully he decides to retire peacefully at beachside villa in Argentina.

"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

from Jabberwocky, excerpt from Alice through the looking...

"Beware the Jabberwock , my son! The jaws that bite, the claw that catch! Beware the Jubjub bird, and shun the the frumious Bandersnatch!"

While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Your disconnect with the current state of affairs and recent (100 years) history is alarming. You watch too much American television.

Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
While I had various misgivings about the policy leading to the Iraq war; the removal from power, at a relatively low human cost, of one of the last genocidal psychopaths of the twentieth century, was most certainly a good thing.
A very good thing.

Your disconnect with the current state of affairs and recent (100 years) history is alarming. You watch too much American television.

Rather than making pathetic attempts at guessing my lifestyle, would you care to elaborate as to where lies my alleged disconnect from current affairs and recent history?

[And only because I'm feeling moderately good natured today, some information on the genocidal campaign known as Anfal .]

I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to save the address of this thread, perhaps even archive it....so that the next time someone here tells me that AI isn't extradordinarly liberal I'll have it to reference.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

Originally posted by SDW2001I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I'm going to save the address of this thread, perhaps even archive it....so that the next time someone here tells me that AI isn't extradordinarly liberal I'll have it to reference.

Oh god that's rich!

Well, maybe not quite all 50 states.

PS. Still in check.

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination

Originally posted by Longhornthis thread seems liberal because only liberals are posting in it. nothing for Bush supporters to say. he was caught with his pants down regarding this intelligence report.

end of story.

Oh! I'm so speechless! Liar Liar pants on fire! Out the door in 2004!

You just don't get it. This story has been TAKEN AWAY by the White House. You don;t honestly think that Bush's teeam is going to let him take the fall on this, do you? Let's be real here.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either.

An intelligence consultant who was present at two White House briefings where the uranium report was discussed confirmed that the President was told the intelligence was questionable and that his national security advisors urged him not to include the claim in his State of the Union address.

"The report had already been discredited," said Terrance J. Wilkinson, a CIA advisor present at two White House briefings. "This point was clearly made when the President was in the room during at least two of the briefings."

Bush's response was anger, Wilkinson said.

"He said that if the current operatives working for the CIA couldn't prove the story was true, then the agency had better find some who could," Wilkinson said. "He said he knew the story was true and so would the world after American troops secured the country."

now granted we don't know for sure if the above quote is accurate, but it certainly sounds plausable.

odds are excellent that Bush knew the intel was shaky. he used it anyway. they are now confirming this intel wasn't true. Bush has egg on his face.

i've said nothing about elections or whether or not there will be a "witch hunt" or that he'll take the fall for anything.

i'm simply stating that there's no point for Bush supporters to comment/defend him in this instance because there's nothing to defend. unless of course you want to sink to the level of "it depends on what the definition of is is" type arguments.

politicians are human. Bush is not a saint. he can and will lie, or use information to further his agenda that he knows is sketchy at best. why are you defending that behavior?

odds are the only honest president we ever had was Carter, and look how well that worked for him.