Posted by Joshua on Thursday, August 4th, 2011

WASHINGTON — Two U.S. administrations declined in recent years to place sanctions on Syrian officials who now are involved in that country’s harsh crackdown on dissidents, despite the officials’ involvement in crushing internal opposition previously, according to secret State Department cables obtained by WikiLeaks.

The struggle continues … demonstrators shout slogans against Syrian President Bashar al-Assad in front of the Syrian Embassy in Turkey. (Photo: Reuters) In one instance, the top diplomat at the U.S. Embassy in Damascus asked the State Department in 2007 to impose sanctions on Ali Mamluk, the chief of intelligence for Syrian President Bashar Assad.

“The role of the organization he heads in suppressing internal dissent is publicly known in Syria and stating as much in our statement would resonate well here,” wrote Michael Corbin, the embassy’s charge d’affaires.

But no action was taken against Mamluk until this April, after security forces had killed scores of civilians in the Syrian town of Deraa in protests that have since spread to much of the country.

In the same cable, Corbin opposed sanctions for Mohammad Suleiman, who at the time was a special Assad adviser for arms procurement and strategic weapons. Corbin argued that Suleiman’s activities weren’t well-known enough that the Treasury Department could impose the sanctions without revealing classified information.

“His activities are not widely known, which will make it difficult to obtain unclassified material” needed for the Treasury Department to cite when sanctioning Suleiman, Corbin wrote.

Suleiman never was sanctioned. On Aug. 1, 2008, a sniper killed him in the Syrian coastal town of Tartous. Syria blamed Israel’s Mossad intelligence agency but offered no proof. A secret cable dated April 9, 2009, offers another possibility: that Suleiman was killed because he had $80 million in cash in the basement of one of his homes, which investigators who were looking into his slaying later found.

How to deal with Assad’s inner circle clearly has been a difficult problem for the administrations of Presidents George W. Bush and Barack Obama, according to the cables, part of the vast trove of State Department communications that WikiLeaks has shared with McClatchy and other news organizations.

Despite suggestions as long ago as 2006 that Assad was falling short on promises to open his country’s political system, neither administration was willing to take firm action against his closest advisers, though such sanctions — which would have prohibited U.S. citizens and companies from doing business with them — often were discussed, the cables show.

That same ambiguity exists today, with the Obama administration refusing to call for Assad to leave office, even as the White House regularly denounces the harsh crackdown in which as many as 1,600 people are thought to have died. The most recent White House statement came Sunday, after Syrian troops moved into the restive city of Hama and killed an estimated 75 people.

“Most Syrians we talk to believe that President Assad still represents their best hope for change without instability. It is their fear of instability that stops the majority of Syrians from pushing harder for internal change,” Seche wrote.

The hesitancy to pressure Assad’s inner circle as a way to bring political change to Syria that’s reflected in the cables recalls the conflict between how officials today describe the Libyan regime of Moammar Gadhafi and the way Gadhafi’s regime was portrayed in diplomatic cables before the current uprising in that country.

As McClatchy outlined in a story in April, those cables often portrayed Gadhafi’s regime as moving toward greater openness and described Gadhafi’s son Saif as one of the main proponents of greater respect for human rights. The International Criminal Court indicted Saif Gadhafi on war crimes charges in June, along with his father.

Corbin raised the issue of sanctions in several cables, including one classified secret and dated Jan. 24, 2008, in which he suggested that the U.S. target four men who make and move money for Assad.

The four included Assad’s father-in-law, Fawas Arkhas; financier Zufair Sahloul, who was said to be able to “move $10 million anywhere in the world in 24 hours”; and Assad’s uncle and financial adviser Mohammad Makhlouf. The U.S. still has made no move to sanction them, although the European Union sanctioned Makhlouf on Tuesday.

The fourth person Corbin suggested the U.S. move against was Nabil al Kuzbari, whom Corbin identified as an Assad confidant who ran investment schemes on behalf of Syria’s top business families. The U.S. moved to sanction him only this May.

Despite its refusal to move in some cases, the Bush administration did impose sanctions on some Assad confidants, including Assad’s cousin and economic power broker Rami Makhlouf, after the embassy in Damascus suggested that they be targeted.

A secret cable sent Jan. 31, 2008, described Rami Makhlouf as the “poster boy” of corruption, squeezing out legitimate businesses and benefiting from his family ties to make money in banking, the power sector and cellular-phone service contracting. Sanctions were imposed the next month.

The Bush administration in November 2007 sanctioned his brother Hafiz, a colonel and head of intelligence in Damascus, for Syria’s meddling in Lebanon. In May, the Obama administration modified his sanction to include his alleged role in stifling dissent in Syria.

But to date, the United States hasn’t sanctioned the family patriarch, Mohammad Makhlouf.

The Bush administration also imposed sanctions on Assad’s brother-in-law, Asif Shawkat, in January 2006. Shawkat, who’s married to Assad’s sister Bushra, headed Syrian intelligence at the time, but he fell from grace after the death of Lebanese terrorist mastermind Imad Mugniyah, whom the U.S. sought for killing Navy diver Robert Stethem during the 1985 hijacking of a TWA jet.

A car bomb blew Mugniyah to pieces on Feb. 12, 2008, in Damascus. A secret cable dated April 14, 2008, suggested that Assad stripped Shawkat of some of his power in response to the assassination, which proved embarrassing since Syria had denied for years that Mugniyah was in the country.

Theories abound about who killed Mugniyah and why, ranging from Shawkat, whose office was near the bomb site, to Assad’s violent brother Mahir. Known as the family enforcer, Mahir Assad escaped sanction until late April, when the Obama administration targeted him through an executive order.

In a secret cable from Paris, dated Sept. 12, 2008, the U.S. Embassy cites a French security adviser as saying that Mahir Assad, described as “a bit of a wild man and determined to increase his power,” may have killed Suleiman and possibly Mugniyah. The motive was effectively doing away with headaches from people who “knew too much” about the activities of the Assad family.

Another secret cable — from Damascus on June 3, 2009 — paints an unflattering portrait of the Western-educated leader of Syria. The memo was sent as the Obama administration considered ways the U.S. government could engage Assad and take a less hostile tack.

“Syrian President Bashar al-Assad is neither as shrewd nor as long-winded as his father but he, too, prefers to engage diplomatically on a level of abstraction that seems designed to frustrate any direct challenge to Syria’s behavior,” noted the cable, sent by a new charge d’affaires, Maura Connelly. “Bashar’s vanity represents another Achilles heel: the degree to which USG visitors add to his consequence to some degree affects the prospects for a successful meeting.”

The cable suggested that playing to Assad’s “intellectual pretensions is one stratagem for gaining his confidence and acquiescence; it may be time-consuming but could well produce results.”

If U.S. diplomats under Obama sought to butter up Assad, the Bush administration tried a hostile approach designed to keep him diplomatically off balance.

A Dec. 13, 2006, secret cable from Damascus by charge d’affaires William Roebuck suggested that the diplomats try to sully Assad’s international image since he was preoccupied with how the outside world viewed him.

“Actions that cause Bashar to lose balance and increase his insecurity are in our interest because his inexperience and his regime’s extremely small decision-making circle make him prone to diplomatic stumbles that can weaken him domestically and regionally,” the cable said. “While the consequences of his mistakes are hard to predict and the benefits may vary, if we are prepared to move quickly to take advantage of opportunities that may open up, we may directly impact regime behavior where it matters — Bashar and his inner circle.”

Yet, as the documents show, both administrations chose not to sanction much of his inner circle until the Arab Spring spread this year to Syria. The Obama administration and European allies haven’t yet declared Assad an illegitimate leader who must go, as they did with Libya’s Gadhafi.

The U.S. Treasury Department said Thursday it imposed sanctions on a Syrian businessman who serves in the country’s parliament. Muhammad Hamsho and his holding company, Hamsho International Group, which has about 20 subsidiaries, provided services …

A Washington Post news piece on the revolt in Syria falsely claims that a UN Security Council resolution has been issued with regard to the situation there:

With the U.N. Security Council meeting to review a resolution condemning Syria ..
[…]
.. the Security Council issued a resolution condemning the violence ..
[…]
But activists said the resolution’s significance is blunted ..
[…]
.. “the resolution is meaningless,” human rights activist Wissam Tarif said in Beirut.
[…]
Though the U.N. resolution called for political reforms, ..
There was and is no U.N. Security Council resolution on Syria.

Yesterday a statement was issued by the current president of the UNSC. Such a Presidential Statement:

is often created when the United Nations Security Council cannot reach consensus or are prevented from passing a resolution by a permanent member’s veto, or threat thereof. Such statements are similar in content, format, and tone to resolutions, but are not legally binding.

The statement includes a:

Call for an immediate end to all violence and urge all sides to act with utmost restrain, and to refrain from reprisals, including attacks against state institutions.

There are armed gangs fighting against the Syrian government. The UNSC presidential statement acknowledges this when it explicitly urges to refrain from violence against state institutions.

Hey Menhebaks, why aren’t DUHnya or Syrian TV showing us pictures from Hama? You’d think there would be a live feed from there right now. Where are the crowds of cheering Hamwis to welcome the Besho Brigades?

And to think some people are still so deluded that they expect us to believe there are no tanks in Hama.

That’s it, I am throwing in the towel, I really thought I was a committed hardened atheist but I have decided to join the Assad worshiping mob now and I faithfully promise to unroll a poster of the father and son and kneel down to them five times a day (I’ll have to write to 3ar3our to get him to teach me the proper way to pray, but I won’t tell him it is to my new gods, the father and son (good thing I chose an appropriate acronym too!).

But I ain’t doing this for nothing, Oh Greatest of all leaders and son of the previously Greatest Leader ever bestowed on humanity. You do have to give me something in return for worshiping you.

This video shows images of protests in Syria, captured by a foreign journalist who managed to gain rare access inside the country. CBC News has agreed not to identify him because he fears for his safety.

Many of the activists he profiles in this piece also want their identities protected, for the same reason. They are on the front lines of the effort to topple President Bashar al-Assad’s regime.

Note: Because of rights issues, this video is restricted to views from inside Canada only.

Sanctions on Syrian officials are not enough to change the policies of this regime. What looked as a promising shift few weeks ago turned into a potential civil war two days ago,I still do not know what caused that shift except some indications that Bashar lost control and he is not even consulted when it comes to Dair al-zour and Hama,even if those rumors are true,he is still responsible and he must resign or be removed. Leaders in the Alawi community and the army have a huge responsibility today,they must jump off that sinking ship before it is too late,we do not want an uprising against the regime to become a civil war between neighbors and friends.
Fighters from Iraq are reported in Al-Dair area according to two sources,this is in support of a tribal uprising. The regime has shown an astounding degree of stupidity and arrogance that goes beyond what even its enemies predicted.
I settle my case,please ask your relatives and friends not to attack neighbors and make innocent Syrians pay for the sins of
a regime that failed us all,Sunnis and Alawis,Muslims and Christians..

Bashar is just as delusional, stupid and pyschopath as Saddam and Gaddafi, only he appears a bit civilised and with an educated veneer because of his suit and tie, and his “superior” education.

There is gonna be a tribal uprising in Deir al Zour Muhafza. The people of that Governorate are totally organised on a tribal basis. Shabbiha will not have an easy run because there aren’t any ‘Alawi villages there from where the regime can pull in thugs…..the regime will control it as lomg as it can logistically supply the Army units there. 25 % of Syrian Army comes from AlDeir, and tribal meetings have been held, nearly all Sunni tribes have thrown off theur allegiance to the regime. Iraqi Sunni tribes living across the border will support them, and alraedy armed Ansar al-Sunna and (what an irony) former Ba’athist Iraqis have crosed the border with arms. If civil war does erupt in Deir, Mayadin-Albukamal, looks like Besho will have a hard time. Hopefully Army units will be taken out from Hama, Homs and Idlib. If the regime decides to use the Air Force, that’ll be interesting, bcz the AirForce has alwauys been their achilles heel. So the best thing for Besho is to resign along with Maher, Asef and the rest of them thugs.

Welcome to the new Syria:Kandahar
Welcome to jihadist heaven
Welcome to civil war
Welcome to cutting bodies into pieces
Welcome to public hanging
Welcome to swords and knifes
Welcome to street justice
Welcome to Alah Akbar secularism
Welcome to Sunnis revenge
Welcome to the new Iraq
Welcome to Aboud and Revlon kingdome
Welcome to Alaaroor applied prayers
Welcome to buses and highway ambushes
Welcome to the new ottoman colony
Welcome to refugees above and below ground
Welcome to freedom,democracy and human rights

Please, let’s not buy into this narrative of the regime fighting arm gangs. At a time when the regime is being condemned by the world communities, wouldn’t it allow independent media to document these arm gangs. A guy with a rifle defending his family is not an arm gang.

I am yet to see any evidence of opposition civilians killing or sorting the arm forces. The regime is one the using civilians to shoot and kill demonstrations.

This is an attempt to bring moral equivalency to the regime and the and the freedom seekers.

Kindly, look at the guy in this link at min 1:36-1:39. Notice the body built, the hair style under the head wrap and the black shirt with the slit in the upper middle. This guy was posed for the camera during the alleged army massacre in Jisr al Shoughur.

And now compare him with guy around min 8.28-8:31. A similar body built guy with same hairstyle, and same black shirt holding a stick coming to behind the truck seen briefly for 3 seconds. You can’t compare the face though and the head cover was removed.

The purpose of my post is not to deny the possibility of armed gangs. Violence begets violence and it is to be expected going forward. However, still I do not believe a word of what the regime says and the video posted are of questionable value in believing the regime’ story.

This could be all staged. Regime thugs killed soldiers and other security personnel who refused to open fire on civilians in Jisr al Shoghur. Those in civilian cloth who were shot were taken by a white truck and thrown from the bridge by the same thugs who killed them in a photo-op that was only released when the army unit invaded Hama to provide a pretext to the silent majority and the world. And by the way the same white truck was seen in some other footage shown by JL in his comment yesterday. One can not make a conclusion though as Syria I guess has lots of these white trucks.

“I settle my case,please ask your relatives and friends not to attack neighbors and make innocent Syrians pay for the sins of
a regime that failed us all,Sunnis and Alawis,Muslims and Christians.. ”

An eloquent plea. I agree, we should not let the regime push us to horrendous extremes. Thank you for being a voice of sanity when many, including myself, could only think of striking out at anything and anyone.

Khalid, not just in Deir el Zour. When the army rolled into Jisr al Shoghour, Al-DUHnya and Syrian TV tagged along, and were quickly on hand to film the “victorious” troops.

Five days of a tank invasion, and we have yet to see similar scenes from inside Hama. What is going on there that the regime is so scared of the rest of the country, and the world, of seeing?

The timing of the regime supporters’ push about fighting armed gangs is not coincidental. The American congress is in recess now and are back in their home districts. This is the time they consult their constituents and get a feel for the mood of the country.

What the Americans think matters because they can bring crippling sanctions to the regime. If you don’t believe me check what they did to the Iranian shipping industry by forcing the world’s largest shipping container company, Denmark’s Maersk to stop doing business with the Iranians.

“I posted yesterday about the thuggish treatment of independent leftists (some of them I know) in Hamra when they protested against the criminal Syrian regime. I heard about the involvement of SSNP (which has been transformed by its leader, As`ad Hardan, into a tool of the Syrian regime). I asked SSNP folks who are among my Facebook friends to explain and I was sent assurances that they were not involved. I now know otherwise. In fact, I heard that SSNP members in Hamra have been harassing those who have been protesting against the Syrian regime. ”

So, this is interesting. The SSNP in Lebanon is just a tool of the Baathists in Damascus. But they are too ashamed to tell As’ad Abu Khalil “Yeah, we fought with anti-regime protestors! What are you gonna do about it?” No, instead they meekly and feebly deny they had anything to do with it.

This is why the revolution will win. We shout out our commitment, glory in it, exalt in doing it, while the regime’s supporters weakly try to deny any role they have in siding with the regime. Just look at how feeble they have become on this forum. Quite a change from a few months ago.

Simple solutions are not the answer. Syria is far more complex than Egypt, Tunisia and Libya. Pushing Bashar out will not solve anything at this late stage in the chaos. It will split the country further apart by disenfranchising his supporters, and weaken the central government. Despite what many feel about the Assad family, they have built strong military elite forces over the years, which (ironically) are now Syria’s best hope, if not only hope, to restore order. Order is Syria’s primary goal now; reform is impossible without stability and dialogue. I believe we all ultimately want the same thing, serious reform, but putting things in perspective and prioritizing our expectations are essential now.

Syria must first act as a united country with strong resolve, not as a federation with autonomous states controlled by different tribes and sects who have different agendas. The country must impose its will in no uncertain terms in order to preserve its integrity as a state. This is not the time to show weakness and accommodate the renegades. It must prove itself a viable state with complete control over its territory before any talk of reform.

Menhebek thug
So why does Syria support states within states in Lebanon like Hezbollah and Rifaat Eid’s militia. Enough of your hypocrisy and do as I say not as I do.When you kill tens of thousands, there will be a backlash and the people will not go to their graves like sheep. I hope you enjoy your permanent vacation in the secular oasis of Iran.

“11. Khalid Tlass said:

There is gonna be a tribal uprising in Deir al Zour Muhafza. The people of that Governorate are totally organised on a tribal basis. Shabbiha will not have an easy run because there aren’t any ‘Alawi villages there from where the regime can pull in thugs…..the regime will control it as lomg as it can logistically supply the Army units there. 25 % of Syrian Army comes from AlDeir, and tribal meetings have been held, nearly all Sunni tribes have thrown off theur allegiance to the regime. Iraqi Sunni tribes living across the border will support them, and alraedy armed Ansar al-Sunna and (what an irony) former Ba’athist Iraqis have crosed the border with arms. If civil war does erupt in Deir, Mayadin-Albukamal, looks like Besho will have a hard time. Hopefully Army units will be taken out from Hama, Homs and Idlib. If the regime decides to use the Air Force, that’ll be interesting, bcz the AirForce has alwauys been their achilles heel. So the best thing for Besho is to resign along with Maher, Asef and the rest of them thugs.”

In addition, the tribes of Jordan won’t stay silent. You were warned menhebek thugs, the mistakes of Waleed Jumblat and Sa’d al-Hariri won’t be repeated.

Besho and his inner circle people along, of course, with his ancestors simply downgraded Syria from a “State” to just a “Farm” & people from “Citizens” to “Slaves”, they appointed bunch of thugs and gangs to run the farm while sucking up resources to the last drop of our blood. Yet you still find some deluded people like “Menhebks” come and argue that there’s no other option but the “family”.

Besho’s nepotism brings a thug like Fawaz (the cousin) to be the lord of Lattakia (btw he likes to call himself Austaz. Fawaz), and the same nepotism brings another thug like Rami Makhlouf (the other cousin) to be the lord of Syrian economy (yes he calls himself Asutaz. Rami) and surely the list goes on and on.

Besho is incapable to deliver a new modern State FREE of corruption, nepotism and Bathissts, Besho should leave the office.

SOCHI, Russia (Reuters) – Russian President Dmitry Medvedev made a new appeal to Syrian President Bashar al-Assad on Thursday to carry out reforms and reconcile with his opponents, saying he risked a “sad fate” if he failed to do so.

Dr Landis
Thanks for this interesting compilation of the lovely Assad family. It does help us westerners learn about these people in countries where otherwise it’s not easy to get information.

In fact, as one sees through these thousands of cables, the US isn’t such the bad guy as imagined. In fact, these diplomats were doing their job as best they could, and their style, efficiency and professional perceptions, in diplomatic cables has been applauded and even used in schools (read from India).

I would just mention though, that I do think that all reporters, amateur or professional, bloggers.. should have a mention below all use of Wikileaks cables used to compile these articles, for Bradley Manning, who is MAYBE (still held without trial), the poor guy who enabled this information. A bit of solidarity or non hypocrisy would be appreciated.

I will be going on a medical mission to Syria as soon as we get clearance from Syrian and Turkish governments. This mission is not political and we hope that nobody will stop us from helping people in need.
Wish me luck along with my friends and colleagues of distinguished Syrian physicians.
Please excuse me from coming up with more details,I just want all to help the motherland without asking why,you do not need a reason to give,or when,the time is now,or how,if there is a will,there is a way.
Pray for Syria..

“The Obama administration and European allies haven’t yet declared Assad an illegitimate leader who must go, as they did with Libya’s Gadhafi.”

Well, this is not really true as it’s just a question of “phrasing”. Most countries have shown their disgust and horror at what is going on.

Libya is not the same as Syria as everyone tries to remind people. Libya is opposite Europe and it was Libyans who called for help, they were being slaughtered and they swallowed their pride and called on world help. France and GB kicked in, because it’s in their backyard then UN.

There are many Libyans in Europe especially in GB. Saif had intimate connections with Blair etc etc. Sarkozy dealt with the Bulgarian nurse, blackmail, disgusting situation, and had to suffer a humiliating deal because of it – a state visit by Gaddafi. Nobody in fact (except the whining socialists) really complained, it was such, too bad. Everyone thought at the time that Gaddafi was on the road to real reforms bla bla.

Syria is another kettle of fish, as it’s obvious on this blog. Who on earth is going to engage their troops in bombing Syria ? And why should they ? Nobody is calling on help to anyone. They DON’T WANT ANY HELP. The Syrians as we see here, are totally brainwashed by years of propaganda that the west are all spies and zionists.. Yet as we see from posts like Khalid Tlass (who worships the ‘real god’) they will still blame them for ‘not lifting a finger’, or ‘reacting too late’, or ‘not saying ‘get out Assad’, etc.

In fact nobody to my knowledge has called out to the ‘west’ or anybody, (why the west ? It’s not in the ‘west’ !) We see, precisely what some have said here, that Syria has no friends except the enemies of the west. Why should the west be involved ? But they did, the UN did meet, they got a condemnation, it was recognized, that their regime was committing crimes. And countries are sanctioning.

But, one only has to look at this blog or elsewhere to see the total often brainless incapacity of uniting on a set of principles, or even begin a process of serious discussion to get some form of effective opposition. No, nobody can agree on anything, nobody wants a united opposition, nobody will admit that there are nasty armed, foreign or not, militant and even radical religious elements that are trying to hijack peaceful protests, that there are serious sectarian problems that are bubbling up because of events 30 years ago etc.

How can any gvt or group of nations decide to act, except on basic principles (that wonderfully do exist), of legal questions of human rights, international conventions of correct and legal behaviour concerning acts of barbarity, genocide, crimes against humanity ?

The Arab/muslim world has for so long hated the west, spent years fighting Israel, yet now, they have their western educated youths that use western technology and realize that their countries are backward and could do better. They call for changes. They aren’t proud, they are sincere they think rationally, they see the world as a village, but all what their parents and grandparents lived, is a huge great quagmire that is dragging them down and draining them of their enlightened enthusiasm.

These conservative and religious forces and certainly corrupt and financial forces, that had managed to be integrated in international affairs are strong and the ‘arab enlightenment’ is going to be slow, bloody, and will need many enlightened, devout, (in secular sense) patient supporters to help them through it. May my grandchildren see it, as I won’t.

As I don’t pray to any gods, except to Reason, I can only hope that the this fragile world can help the poor people whoever they are, whatever their poor god beliefs, or not, can be saved from further suffering. That’s all I can offer. As thousands or millions are dying of famine, in Africa, again because of crazy religious beliefs, yet the ‘world’ comes to their aid, this crazy world, is effectively sick and will need many many years before it can .. [what should I say ? ‘develop itself’ ? ‘help itself’ ? ‘Learn how to share’ ? ]

Short term survival of the regime is not impossible but I do not see Asad staying president much longer or albaath keeping its illegal grip on power. Syrians had enough. I still have faith in average Syrians,including conservative Muslims and loyal alawite,and I will NOT quit on Syria even if I lose my life in the process. My call for a peaceful transition is supported by most Syrians,and WE WILL PREVAIL..
بالروح بالدم نفديك يا سوريا

“After 1,600 courageous Syrians have been slaughtered since pro-democracy demonstrations began in March the Westerns start thinking of imposing “Practical” sanctions!”

I disagree with this approach. Sanctions have failed to accomplish their objective of deposing dictators while still inflicting untold misery on common people. North Koreans, and Iraqis suffered tremendously at the hands of these sanctions. Sanctions are not effective to depose dictators who are willing to kill their own people. And in case there was any doubt that Besho would fight to the bitter, the defeat and humiliation that Mubarak is now facing from his cage in a Cairo court should be an explicit reminder of what’s in store for him if he relinquishes power.

Instead Westerns should help to tighten the rope more and more around Besho by refereeing him (along with his thugs and henchmen) to the international court and most importantly to denounce his legitimacy and isolate him politically. Leave the on ground job for Syrians themselves.

In fact I’ve thought the same as you. Many Europeans opposed the Us sanctions on Iraq, because of the terrible consequences on the people. For Iran, it’s similar

However I read that ‘nowadays’ sanctions are more ‘humanitarian’, in that they target particular people and try to avoid measures that will hit ordinary people. However, I wonder about this.

About getting an International court sentence, I wonder too, as it seems they get even more entrenched in their countries (see gaddafi) and behave as bunkerists, (kill everyone as I’ve got nothing to lose).

I think that if there was an easy solution it would have been found already.

I wrote some comments time ago about the theory around the 4 phases plan designed to submit and divide Syria since early 1900 , and I still believe in it, the phase 3 still ongoing , during this phase a more fragmented Syria with total submission should be the final step towards achieving this ultimate goal, President Assad and the government have much more details and information than all of us know or assuming to know , all these noise around regime change is just a tool not the objective on what designed for Syria today, and they know that, all what he is doing inside Syria will not have any impact on the tools used as a lot of them have an exterior factors/ actors involve to counter balance any government movement to achieve piece and tranquility in the country, the big question is what the president and his government can do to prevent the inevitable, I still believe he is well prepared and has a lot in his pocket yet to use, he shows only little of them yet, due to his character of managing an event , please observe his style on doing business last 10 years , the status-qua is his preferred approach to win on term against his opponents; and he knows this time will not work, only he is trying to buy some time for the finally , that why he is slowly moving with the reforms, because the reforms are another tools the opponents of Syria try to use to achieve the ultimate goal , I believe the way to go to preserve Syria , is the president to act as following :

– as you know the best defense is the offence , and Syria should go full gas soon against the exterior actors , the interior ones is only tools, no status-qua will save Syria this time .. remember that always history repeat its self , the day the french attack Syria in 1920 , the king of Syria tried to avoid that, even he submitted via official letters to the super power at that time, he failed, only then his minister of the defense tried to fight unprepared a war and lost, I believe the president is trying to understand the lesson learned and prepare his next move very carefully, as he obligate to win this time, if he loose , all Syria will loos , remember when minister Alazmeh lost the ware against the French , what happened to Syria then !!!!

We should all be behind him and support the government, we should be all for Syria

He has my trust and vote.

My next comment will be around some historical events which will maybe explain what is happening today

Ali gave his opinion,he was right most of the time but was not factual at times. I still think it was worthwhile to watch him. We need to start accepting the ” other” if we want Syria to survive and prosper.

look whichever minhebak douche-bag is abusing the thumbs up/down system on this blog by changing his IP and re-voting would you please stop it. I can’t believe how ridiculously stupid you Baathists are, as if no one would catch on, yeah right. This system is meant to vet the insightful important comments from the frivolous ones, not act as a gauge to how much Bashar brown-nosing is in the content. Stop it or I’ll unleash a spam bot that will thumbs down all the minhebaks comments to minus 1000.

I am confused. I support and admire the protestors amd wish them all a peaceful Friday but I don’t support the end of Bashar because I am terrified of the power vacuum. We are Syrians, we are one people! We support each other and live simple but happy multi-teligious

If all the opposition have your logic, Syria would not have been were it is now. You are the only one on this forum who is opposed to president Assad, want the regime to go, yet carefuly about Syria. You never used Sectarian posts at all, and the other opposition like Tara, Aboud, never learned from you. Good luck in your mession in Syria, the mother Syria is wounded and needs people like yourself

“So now it’s the fault of the opposition. They are the ones to blame. Great logic at work here”.

I respect some one like Abughassan knowing in advance that he wants the president out. I am against this revolution because it brought destruction to our lives, and yes I am a supporter of the president. Despite all of that I would respect some one who is in the opposition for one reason; the power of logic. So Syr. Expat, you and your alikes Tara, Aboud, Revlon, and many many others who are on the offense, who lack logic, who are fabricating the facts, you should really learn logic first, and learn how to get people at your side. If the oppositions had this power, i wouold say they may win the heart of many Syrians. Because I see blood in your words, I would assure you that will keep the sectarian a border between you and us, and will be ready to face you as we are since the begining of Ramadan

I have decided after what I saw in Syria to support the people,pro and anti,and stay away from hateful meaningless discussions. Syria can get out of this mess,mark my words.
Send a dollar to a needy person and make a difference instead of sending verbal bombs and youtube videos that keep things the same. I am done with this endless game of he said,she said,Syria is burning,we need water not fire..
Some people are not born to do what is right,they are destined to say what is wrong.
Please consider this as a friendly advice and not another verbal bomb..
سوريا و بس

NATO is planning a military campaign against Syria to help overthrow the regime of President Bashar al-Assad with a long-reaching goal of preparing a beachhead for an attack on Iran, Russia’s envoy to NATO Dmitry Rogozin said.
The UN Security Council condemned on Wednesday ongoing violence in Syria and urged the country’s authorities to stop using force against peaceful protesters, while saying the current situation in the country has not yet called for NATO interference.
“[This statement] means that the planning [of the military campaign] is well underway. It could be a logical conclusion of those military and propaganda operations, which have been carried out by certain Western countries against North Africa,” Rogozin said in an interview with the Izvestia newspaper published on Friday.
The Russian diplomat pointed out at the fact that the alliance is aiming to interfere only with the regimes “whose views do not coincide with those of the West.”
Rogozin agreed with the opinion expressed by some experts that Syria and later Yemen could be NATO’s last steps on the way to launch an attack on Iran.
“The noose around Iran is tightening. Military planning against Iran is underway. And we are certainly concerned about an escalation of a large-scale war in this huge region,” Rogozin said.
Having learned the Libyan lesson, Russia “will continue to oppose a forcible resolution of the situation in Syria,” he said, adding that the consequences of a large-scale conflict in North Africa would be devastating for the whole world.

In a city in the north east of Syria (kamishli),Christians collect every morning rocks from ther balconies.Kurds and beduin attack ther houses at night with rocks,so they sleep with windows closed.if the police tries to follow the attackers they laugh and start shouting:الشعب يريد إسقاط النظام
Another achievement for this Aroor Masturbation.

Amazing how violence increases after prayers,that speaks about the spirituality and the connection between the spirit and god,which manifests itself in loving pattern of shouting,burning cars,killing,attacking….

Thank you for your interest in Syria!!
But your people at the embassies, admin, congress have no buniness in uttering a word regarding any internal problem of any country.
The good work of your people is evident in supporting all dictators in the world and in places such as Iraq, Lebanon, Palestine, Afghansatn, Vietnam, Cuba etc…
No good can come from any foreign intervention.
So please apare us!!!

MOSCOW, Aug. 5 (Xinhua) — Russia’s envoy to NATO, Dmitry Rogozin, said Friday that the alliance is planning a military campaign against Syria to overthrow the regime of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad, local media reported.

In an interview with Russia’s Izvestia daily newspaper, Rogozin said the North Atlantic Treaty Organization is also probably establishing a long-reaching goal of preparing an attack on Iran.

Rogozin said a statement Wednesday from the UN Security Council, which confirmed that the current situation in Syria had not yet called for NATO interference, meant that planning for a military campaign was underway.

“It could be a logical conclusion for those military and propaganda operations, which have been carried out by certain Western countries against North Africa,” Rogozin said.

Russia has learned lessons from Libya and will continue to oppose “a forcible resolution of the situation in Syria,” Rogozin said.

He added that the alliance is aiming to interfere only with the regimes “whose views do not coincide with those of the West.”

The diplomat also warned that the “noose around Iran is tightening,” saying Moscow is seriously concerned about “an escalation of a large-scale war in this huge region.”

Syrian author and journalist Samar Yazbek describes the horrors of the detention centre to which she was taken in the aftermath of the demonstrations earlier this year

Two huge men entered the room. They stood in readiness, in plainclothes. One of them stood to the right and the other to the left. With a signal from his eyes, each seized me by the shoulders, though not roughly. They seized me as if I were some object, easy for them to move. I did not resist when they started to lift me out of my chair. I even stood up, surprised at what was happening. Would they finally arrest me, putting this nightmare to an end? One gave the officer a jaunty look, and I looked at him not knowing what was next. I tried to read some good news in their eyes, body movements and demeanour. He was neutral, looking at some spot in the room. The two of them put a band of cloth over my eyes. Moments later, I was blindfolded, and noticed a strange smell from the cloth. A strong arm seized me, an arm sure of its grasp of my elbow, of its push and pull. Then I straightened up and shouted, “Where are you taking me?”

He answered calmly, and I heard a certain buzz. “For a little drive, to improve your writing.” I was certain they had decided to arrest me.

It took less than two minutes; but all these thoughts passed faster than that, and I would have collapsed had it not been for the man on the right and the other to the left moving me along, which they were still doing with fastidious calm. They must have been ordered to do that, but when I almost fell and they caught me, I knew we were going down stairs.

The staircase was narrow. I tried to peek around the blindfold, but it was firm and tight. My breathing grew tighter; I felt we had descended several flights. A nausea started to rack my body, and rotten smells mingled with odours I had never smelled before. At last we stopped. A burning pain shot up my lower back and I shivered. A hand undid the blindfold. I did not expect what awaited me to be horrible, despite everything I had read about prisons; I had tried to write about what I had heard and imagined, but all that meant nothing the moment I opened my eyes. I could scarcely believe this was a real place and not a space in my mind, sick from writing. A passage down which two persons could barely pass side by side, the far end enveloped in blackness. I looked behind me and saw nothing, and before me was utter blackness. A passage with no beginning or end, suspended in nothingness, with me in the middle, and closed doors. The man standing before me opened one of the doors. A sharp buzz started quickly and then ended with slow beats, sad beats like a melody I heard once in a Greek bar. One of the men grasped my elbow and pushed me further in, and kept holding my arm and the open door, and there . . . I saw them. It was a cell scarcely big enough for two or three to stand in. I could not see clearly, but I made out three bodies hanging there, I did not know how! I was bewildered, and my stomach began to convulse. The bodies were nearly naked. There was a dim light seeping in from somewhere, feeble rays for enough vision to discern that they were youths of no more than 20 years old. Their fresh young bodies were clear beneath the blood. They were suspended from their hands in steel cuffs, and their toes barely touched the floor. Blood streamed down their bodies, fresh blood, dried blood, deep bruises visible like the blows of a random blade. Their faces looked down; they were unconscious, and they swayed to and fro like slaughtered animals.

I retreated, but one of the men grabbed me and pushed me, in total silence. One young man raised his head in agony, and the weak light allowed me to see his face.

He had no face; his eyes were completely encrusted. I could see no light in his eyes. There was no place for his nose or even lips. His face was like a red painting with no lines. Red mixed with black.

At that point I collapsed, and the two men lifted me up. For a minute I teetered on a slippery spot, blindly, and it took several moments for me to regain my balance on my feet. I heard one of them tell the other, “Man, she can’t take it. Look at her. The closet’s killing her!”

Then that smell gushed out, the smell of blood, urine and faeces. Abruptly they took me out of the cell and opened another, and as they did so, the sounds of screaming and torture came from somewhere. Never had I heard such sounds of pain. They did not stop until we left the passage.

A second cell was opened. There was a young man curled up on the floor, in a foetal position, his back to me, the vertebrae of his spinal column like an anatomist’s drawing. He, too, seemed to be unconscious. His back was sliced up, as if a knife had carved a map into it.

They closed the cell, and so on with cell after cell, grabbing me by my elbows and pushing me into them, then pulling me out. Bodies lay on top of bodies in heaps. This was Hell. As if humans were just pieces of meat, laid out to put on optimal display the arts of murder and torture. Young men transformed into cold pieces of meat in damp, narrow cells.

I asked one of the men, as they tied the blindfold back on me, “Are those the boys from the demonstrations?”

“Those are the traitors from the demonstrations,” one of them answered.

My question irritated him. He seized my elbow and squeezed it harshly, until I thought he would break it. I stumbled and fell, but instead of letting me get up, he kept dragging me. I felt a scalding pain in my bones when I thought back on the boys who had gone out to demonstrate. All those smells were in my mouth, and the images from the cells covered the blackness before my eyes. We stopped. They pulled off the blindfold and I saw him sitting behind an elegant desk, and I knew that this was not a nightmare. He stared at me derisively.

“What do you think?” he asked. “Did you see your traitor friends?”

I vomited, and fell to my knees. They got very angry. He got out of his chair to stare at the beautiful furniture I had ruined. I kept vomiting. The thought came back to me: everyone who goes out to demonstrate in the streets here is shot, or lives as a fugitive, or is detained and tortured like those boys. What courage was now growing from this flinty ground!

My voice was weak but I heard it say: You are the traitor. I know he heard it because he leaned over and hit me hard. Finally I fell to the floor and everything began to fall apart. Before I passed out, I could feel it: my mouth was open against the floor, and the blood started flowing.

Translated by Peter Theroux. Samar Yazbek is one of the Beirut 39 Arabic writers

ABUGHASSAN
Godspeed and please return safe and sound. While in Syria, It would be excellent if you can identify a trustworthy group of Doctors to help. Many i know are not sure where to send help to. No one wants resources to fall in the wrong hands.

I want every menhebak (edited for insult. Aboud: refrain from insulting commenters) here to read, and re-read the post by NZ at 66. Don’t you (edited) ever dare come and whine when one of your shabiha shits gets his head smashed in. I can’t believe there are still so called Syrians who would support such practices. Filth, the lot of them.

“look whichever minhebak douche-bag is abusing the thumbs up/down system on this blog by changing his IP and re-voting would you please stop it. ”

ROFL! Aboali, talk about a pathetic person 🙂 What sad loser spends his or her time going thumbs up/thumbs down.

Such a person should be pitied. Aboali, if the menhebaks have nothing better to do, then by all means let’s leave them to waste their time doing so.

@63″But your people at the embassies, admin, congress have no buniness in uttering a word regarding any internal problem of any country.”

But the Ayatollahs in Iran have every right to send weapons and snipers to prop up junior in Damascus. I believe the Iranian Donkeys have been uttering more than just words about events in Syria. Hypocritical Baathists, barking on about a “secular” state while being sustained by a theocracy.

@59 Yet more complete and utter BS offered up as fact by the menhebaks. Where did you get this little nugget of information? SANA, or your dreams (both are as credible as the other I guess)

In Istanbul, the National Salvation Council of Syria, composed of Islamists, liberals and independent members. … agreed that 11 members will be elected and they will strengthen the links between the separate groups of opponents of the official in Damascus.
…..

Opponents of President Bashar al-Assad can be divided into four main groups.
First, according to senior researcher Institute of Oriental Studies Boris Dolgov – intellectuals, dissatisfied with the rigid Syrian regime.
Then – the part of the former leadership of the country, which has appeared in exile after the purges in the ruling party, “the Baath.”
….
But the strongest opponents of the current government – a radical Islamist movement : the world’s oldest terrorist organization “Muslim Brothers”.

….

It was the Islamists, as suggested by Sergey Demidenko, able to combine a large part of the Syrians and to the actual fighting – many of whom were Iraq and other hot spots. Liberals dream of democracy, but appears to lack imagine how it would work in the Syrian conditions.
Former high-ranking functionaries of the party “Baath” wish for revenge.

– The search for consensus between Assad and the opposition, is the right decision – insists on the Russian Foreign Ministry .

This is no surprise to me.The revolutions are run by the CIA, Mossad and NATO. This evil plan to attempt to destabilize Syria began with the evil John Bolton. In 2002 he introduced the plan to break up both Syria and Libya simultaneously.
The original plan was to bring about military coups in Syria but with lack of willingness form the military officers, this plan failed.

They then resorted using the media as their weapon. They used the infamous “Gay girl in Damascus” stunt that caused controversy all around the world. That also didn’t go as planned when the perpetrator was exposed as a 40yr old male from…You guessed it, AMERICA. But what stuns me is the gullibility of the internet users and newspaper readers who are swallowing these lies blinded by the truth not realizing that they are posing as puppets, doing exactly as they are controlled to do and thinking with the brains of others.

And then come the “peaceful protests” or demonstrations that have caused the deaths of many good Syrian Soldiers. When these started, salafi gangs randomly started shooting from rooftops claiming it was the army in order for the people to feel unease and believe that this is at the fault of the President. Syrian TV showed armed groups on rooftops firing at random into the crowd and at the police. But when these images were shown on western media, it was said that the Syrian government were firing at the civilians, not that those that were firing were the forces of the CIA-Mossad. They murdered and mutilated the bodies of army and security personnel, burned down their stations and stole their uniforms using them as a disguise and randomly shooting civilians making out like it was security forces. Despite all of the evidence shown, people are still (wasting their time) fighting the regime

The majority of the Syrian population are supporting the great leader and standing firmly behind its government. Unlike those fathers sending their sons into the battlefield and waiting for the “good news” that his son has died in the name of jihad. If these puppets took a second to think they would realize that if (God forbid) Assad were to step down, who would take over? These vicious monsters? Is that the kind of life they wish upon themselves? And yet these people are still blinded.

This conspiracy will come to an end. And the last one standing will be Bashar Al Assad. Long live Syria’s only Assad

“The Army trucks are opening roads, removing stones, soils, cement cubes and lighting columns used by those terrorist groups to divide the city from its surroundings, block life and terrify Hama families.

Meanwhile, a number of law-enforcement members who were wounded in Hama told how they were shot by armed terrorist groups while fulfilling their national duties in the city.

Lieutenant Colonel Maher Jroudi said his unit was assigned to remove roadblocks set up by terrorists when the armed terrorist groups attacked them.”

Ntrepid supplies software, that enables one operator to create and control multiple personas from one computer.
The software sought would allow a user to have 10 personas.
Each persona would have a background, history, supporting details, and cyber presence that is consistent from a technical, cultural, and geographic standpoint.[
The user is able to use his different online personas from the same PC, and make them appear to be coming from almost anywhere in the world, without his true location being determined even by a sophisticated enemy.
The user appears to be socially aware as he/she would be if he/she was located in the relevant geographic location.

Syrias predecement is not easy , we all know syria is holding (Iran, Hesollah Syria)chain together. (israel) needs to breake that. the dictatorship in syria is agood execuse,its a cry wolf stratigy. what took place in Iraq would seem little in comparison. Breaking the regime in syria now is a desaster on the work. none apludes dectators, but the other side of the story is very very SCARYYYY. let give syria one quiet year and examen Bshar with the changes even 6 monthes. nothing can change under this havoc. i think Bashar learned a good lesson dont you?

This is no surprise to me.The revolutions are run by the CIA, Mossad and NATO.”

So why did your beloved Hafez collaborate with the Americans in Gulf War I? Why did his father collaborate with the French and praised the Zionists and blame the Palestinians for refusing to become refugees in their own land? Why did the CIA rendition many jihadists to be tortured in Syrian dungeons? Enough of the mumaana nonsense.

” This evil plan to attempt to destabilize Syria began with the evil John Bolton. In 2002 he introduced the plan to break up both Syria and Libya simultaneously.
The original plan was to bring about military coups in Syria but with lack of willingness form the military officers, this plan failed.”

And yet, the quisling Iraqi government which was brought about by the likes of Bolton are your biggest allies now. More hypocridy

“They then resorted using the media as their weapon. They used the infamous “Gay girl in Damascus” stunt that caused controversy all around the world. That also didn’t go as planned when the perpetrator was exposed as a 40yr old male from…You guessed it, AMERICA.”

As opposed to the deranged cyber-shabiha and the propagandists of the regime like Talib Ibrahim, Khalid Abboud and Ali Shu’aybi.

“But what stuns me is the gullibility of the internet users and newspaper readers who are swallowing these lies blinded by the truth not realizing that they are posing as puppets, doing exactly as they are controlled to do and thinking with the brains of others.”

What stuns me is the gullibility of the cyber-shabiha menhebek fanatics who are swallowing these lies blinded by the truth not realizing that they are posing as puppets, doing exactly as they are controlled to do and thinking with the brains of others.

Kama tudeen, tudaan.

“And then come the “peaceful protests” or demonstrations that have caused the deaths of many good Syrian Soldiers.”

How about the tens of thousands of Syrians slaughtered by your regime in the past and the thousands killed recently?

” When these started, salafi gangs randomly started shooting from rooftops claiming it was the army in order for the people to feel unease and believe that this is at the fault of the President. Syrian TV showed armed groups on rooftops firing at random into the crowd and at the police. But when these images were shown on western media, it was said that the Syrian government were firing at the civilians, not that those that were firing were the forces of the CIA-Mossad.”

This is probaly the most deranged lie propogated by the regime and its backers. Why would these gangs fire on those who are on their side against the regime? Are you saying that your regime didn’t intentionally kill hundreds of unarmed protestors? Have you forgotten that your regime has slaughtered tens of thousands in the past.

” They murdered and mutilated the bodies of army and security personnel, burned down their stations and stole their uniforms using them as a disguise and randomly shooting civilians making out like it was security forces. Despite all of the evidence shown, people are still (wasting their time) fighting the regime”

When you slaughter tens of thousands, don’t expect the people to go to their graves like sheep.

“The majority of the Syrian population are supporting the great leader and standing firmly behind its government. Unlike those fathers sending their sons into the battlefield and waiting for the “good news” that his son has died in the name of jihad. If these puppets took a second to think they would realize that if (God forbid) Assad were to step down, who would take over? These vicious monsters? Is that the kind of life they wish upon themselves? And yet these people are still blinded.”

Millions of Syrians hate your regime and those blinded are deranged menhebeks like yourself.

“This conspiracy will come to an end. And the last one standing will be Bashar Al Assad. Long live Syria’s only Assad”

No, your regime will soon come to an end and you will join Bashar in Iran.

I said in my Comment #63: But your people at the embassies, admin, congress have no business in uttering a word regarding any internal problem of any country.

You replied in 68

“But the Ayatollahs in Iran have every right to send weapons and snipers to prop up junior in Damascus. I believe the Iranian Donkeys have been uttering more than just words about events in Syria. Hypocritical Baathists, barking on about a “secular” state while being sustained by a theocracy.”

1- My response was to Aliccie who was speaking about her people at US EMBASSIES, Hence my response to her.
2- I also said in the same response, which you conveniently chose to ignore: No good can come from any foreign intervention.
So I think foreign intervention covers it all, unless you believe that Persians are Arabs.
3- The label you used to describe Persians “Iranian Donkeys” is not purely political
4- Unlike the hard and harsh realities imposed on countries all over the world as a result of US intervention, there was no shred of evidence to your allegations of Persians fighters and sippers. If you have any, please don’t hesitate to provide.
5- In other comments, you slapped me with one of your ready-to-use label and called me a Baathist. When I pointed it out to you, you humbly apologized and your apology was accepted. But you did it again today, and my response to you will be the same. I told you then and will tell you now that I will ignore it. Not that there is anything wrong with being a baathist, but I was never and will never be a member of the baath party, or any other for that matter.

Professor Landis, kindly mind explaining, how is it that if the country is awash in armed militants, we have not seen any revenge attacks all week in response to the regime’s invasion of Hama? It just doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.

What is the point of foreign armed groups if not to attack government assets? Seems to me to be either the most pointless foreign conspiracy ever, or (as more realistically), a complete made up fantasy on the part of the regime.

I’m afraid professor, that empirical analysis inevitably must come to the conclusion that whatever arms may be with the populace, is solely for self defense, much like the Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto armed themselves in anticipation of being liquidated by the Nazis.

@79 “there was no shred of evidence to your allegations of Persians fighters and sippers.”

Aha, I see you left out the word “weapons”. The Baathists are now not denying anymore that there are indeed Iranian weapons bound for the Damascus Donkeys. Kindly look at the Al-Arabiya article I posted about Turkey seizing Iranian weapons bound for Syria.

I’ve always said that so far there has not been an Iranian smoking gun, but there is overwhelming anecdotal evidence. Is it enough to hang Iran? Not yet. But that’s the price the Baathist scum pay for not letting in an independent press. With all the support the pigs in Tehran give junior in every sphere imaginable, I would find it shocking if they didn’t send republican guards just like they did to Lebanon. It would be out of character for the Tehran scum.

“3- The label you used to describe Persians “Iranian Donkeys” is not purely political”

Donkeys, pigs, scum, ekhwat sharmouta, wood for a bonfire, not worthy enough to lick the boots of any Syrian. Did I miss anything out?

Thank you Abu Umar. The Iranians have the most odious record in the region. Syrians share absolutely no values whatsoever with that despicable theocracy. The Iranian revolution caved in after just a few weeks, while the Syrian revolution is going on strong despite a death toll that has exceeded the one in Libya.

Aliccie

“Syrian embassies have done worse than that, they go out and threaten people. ”

Indeed. But they won’t have the ability to do so in Egypt. The ambassador there packed up his family and headed back to Syria, after the Egyptian anti-regime demonstrators surrounded the embassy for days there.

“”””””””
#Syria: The “Twitter Campaign to Support the Syrian Revolution” has officially started NOW, Please use #RamadanMassacre in your tweets..
Retweeted from @KareemLailah
( Syrian researcher and human rights activist, has a liberal political interests. Amnesty International & LCC Syria active member.)

then another Tweet

Asking for sources on casualty & martyr numbers in #Syria is simply pathetic & doesn’t make you more pro! #RamadanMassacre #Hama

“”
It’s not known how many people have died .
But Syrian opposition sources reported at least 55 deaths on Sunday, and by Monday some counts exceeded 100.
“”
The article proves nothing and does not name its sources. Instead it suggests the ‘Ramadan Massacre’ is comparable to the killing of tens of thousands, and offers zero evidence. This is the modus operandi for mainstream reporting on Syria.

But the aforementioned London-based Syrian lady – Rime Allaf – with over 2,200 followers, has a reason for her hollow cries of indignation. Her website bio lists her as being an Associate Fellow of Chatham House – the UK arm of warmongering corporate U.S. think tank, the Council on Foreign Relations:

Rime Allaf is a writer, broadcaster and consultant specializing in Middle East affairs, and an Associate Fellow of the Royal Institute of International Affairs, also known as Chatham House. ( The UK arm of warmongering corporate U.S. think tank )

She was previously the Managing Director of a consultancy in Damascus, advising multinationals wishing to move in to Syria on political, business, legal and social issues.

Neoliberal apostle and globalist footsoldier, …..

Among others tweeters using the #RamadanMassacre hashtag
freesyria16,hartig55,JellySquirrel,ehsan_ibn_sina,
AhmadFathElBab,Motaz_Kaakarli,Rahuba8,
BintAlRifai,AntaTeportNews,Chaag2,

and USAforFreelybia !!

are the authors of 25% of the 1731 tweets I recovered with this hashtag.

Disclaimer
A Tweeter with 1 brain and 10 fingers cannot beat a crowd of Retweeters with 1 neuron and 1 finger and Ntrepid.

The fact that you are not an American does not change the essence of your comment nor my response. You were speaking of US embassies and hence was my response. I have no problem with staff of foreign embassies trying to depict the right internal situation of the countries were they are placed, But recommending sanctions is a blatant intervention.

As for syrian embassies, I was only discussing intervention in local affairs by foreign embassies.

66. Dear N.Z., thank you for posting Samar Yazbek’s experience in a Jr’s prison.
Accounts offered by non-Syrians of the surreal, beastly nature of jr’s underground prisons serve to portray a ruthless system, lead and guarded by sick minds.

Those who support the persistence of or the negotiation with this criminal regime can not be but their accomplices.

Iran has been supplying weapons to Syria ever since the Collapse of the Soviet Union and it is no different than any country getting weapons from the US, Russia, Europe etc… So to use it in this context is disingenuous to say the least.

MNA, aha, but that was when everyone believed that Syrian weapons were for fighting Israel, and not to gun down people as they come out of a mosque. Would Iran have given Syria a bullet if Syria had decided to take on Hizbollah in Lebanon?

The Iranians are the only ones who consider it acceptable for their weapons to be used to kill 1,600 civilians, not one of whom has been shown to have Jihadist or militant backgrounds.

Every weapons producing nation on Earth, once they see their weapons being used for purposes other than which they were originally sold for, slap an arms embargo on the offending nation. If a country continues to provide weapons, then it approves of the method in which its weapons are used, and is therefore complicit in the crime.

Afram how dare you call me a barbarian salafi! I’m not a salafi

🙂

Hehe, it will probably take him a while to get the joke. But at least he didn’t call me a Baathist. That’s the kind of stuff tribal vendettas are made of.

Nonsense, every weapon that I have seen on any Syrian security or army personnel was not Iranina made, but Russian made. Actually all the tanks, klanshikoffs, RBJs are Russian made. Trucks used to transport tanks and heavy military equipment are either Benz or Hundai. How come you are not complaining about any of that?

“Hehe, it will probably take him a while to get the joke. But at least he didn’t call me a Baathist. That’s the kind of stuff tribal vendettas are made of. ”

MNA, I am most definitely pissed off at the Russians and Chinese. Their stance and continued cover for the regime is inexcusable. Where will they be if this country slides into a civil war as a result of the regime’s barbarities? Will they host refugees? Will they send peace keepers? Will they pick up the tab for reconstruction?

Numerous countries in the world are manufacturing their own light arms based on Soviet designs. Iran is no exception. Just because it is an AK-47, doesn’t mean it didn’t come from Iran.

“So does that give me the excuse to declare tribal Vendettas on you”

ROFL! You are the only guy who has managed to catch me out time and again using my own words 🙂

“First, in your proposal you are counting on the president to understand the reality and to step down now for the sake of the country. Unfortunately, I think this won’t happen. I know Bashar personally. I know well what type of personality he is. Bashar was a “nice” person, however superficial and has no good understanding for real life. Consequently, Bashar could have had good wishes, when he started his presidency, but he has had no ability to achieve them. This failure is inherent in his character that lacks charisma and social intelligence. Thus, he has not been in control and he won’t be; he has had no courage, and he won’t have shortly. In brief, he is immature and has no personal assets that permit to him to have appropriate psychological growth. As you know, people when they can’t progress personally, they regress (please refer to Karen Horney in “Neurosis and Human Growth”. In other words, they become worse, more dysfunctional and consequently more evil. This particularly applies to immature people in power, because during their reign they become extremely entitled, arrogant, narcissistic, ruthless and paranoid (please refer to Eric Fromm in “Anatomy of Human Destructiveness”). Bashar is no exception. He by now believes that he was born to be president; even, he is the best of them all. He is the savior of Syria and probably the whole Arabic World (as his father used to believe). Do not think that for them these are empty words, they simply try to bluff us with. Not at all, these are deep believes in their minds; they are called in psychology self-delusions (please refer to Cordelia Fine in “A Mind of its Own”). However, he knows inside himself that without presidency he is nothing; nobody will respect him; nobody will glorify him; nobody will adore him. Therefore, do not count on him to quit the presidency merely for the sake of the country. He won’t leave the presidency easily. He won’t give up before reaching the point of psychological breakdown (I can elaborate more on this point, if you wish). On the other hand, he will quit at the end when the demonstrations grow up. He will give in not because he loves the country, but because of his psychological breakdown.”

“Before the president steps down officially, encouraging any army officer, even if it is the Defence Minister or the Chief of Staff, to take any political move seems to me reckless, because such move will lead to a schism in the army. It will result in a civil war similar to the Libyan one. As you know, in the army there are many units that are loyal to Maher al-Assad, which will obey him till the end. Maher will not relinquish his position easily, even if Bashar steps down. As long as Bashar is still officially in power, ”Maher’s units will be legitimate and will fight till the end to keep the status quo. On the other hand, when Basher resigns these units will be rogue, if they do not obey the person who then will be then the Commander in Chief. In brief, If any of the highly-ranked officers attempts any political move in the current status, we will see situation similar to that occurred in 1984 when Rifa’at Al-Assad put his tanks in the street of Barzza (Damascus) confronting the tanks of the rest of the Syrian Army. Furthermore, I do not prefer, personally, any participation of the army in the political process. I believe firmly that Bashar will resign due the increasing public demonstrations, leading to his psychological breakdown.”

Why we should trust obscuring report on side media, like my recent link?
They are signed by people with name and surname, for which internet search reveals to actually exists and work where they claim to be. Authors and bloggers, please at least do an internet search before you post or repost anything.
Example from established newspaper is not to it’s credit: 90% of articles on Syria in Guardian are from Nour Ali and signed with: Nour Ali is a pseudonym for a journalist based in Damascus.

Not really interested who wins in Syria and Libya, but I hate being lied to.

Small point on the weapons in the hands of the protesters issue. Al-Watan reported a couple of days ago that most of the weapons in Hama were pump action shotguns (which is consistent with the video postings) with a few Kalashnikovs. This hardly supports the regime’s claims about hordes of heavily armed Islamist militants.

It appears that the regime’ supporters on SC are failing miserably. I feel like the Mamnhabaks are only talking to each other. There is no strong voice in favor of the regime to be heard or given attention to on SC. It is probably a reflection of what is happening on the ground in Syria. You are coming off pretty weak. You guys on SC need an effective leadership.

Baba Amr in Homs, this Friday. All week the army has been raiding the neighborhood, shooting up household water containers and arresting people at random. The people of Baba amr got out their big flag and told junior to go screw himself.

And this wasn’t even the main demonstration there.

AP, I’ve generally avoided discussing the Arab-Israeli conflict, as I found it to be way down my list of priorities in light of current events.

But I still have an hour of fasting, I’m cranky, so I think I’ll indulge myself.

Compared to the issues facing the Palestinian-Israeli track, the obstacles to a Syrian-Israeli peace deal are small. Return of the Golan Heights, and a fair solution to the issue of Palestinian refugees in Syria. In the wake of the peace deals Israel signed with Egypt, Jordan and the PLO, a deal should have been reached between Syria and Israel years ago.

Of course, the Assad family never had it in its interests to sign a peace deal. The no-war/no-peace situation suited it just fine; it could pretend to be leading the resistance against Israel, while leaving the Lebanese to bear all the risks and costs.

For the Syrian revolution to accept arms from Israel or America is unthinkable. It would taint this brave movement with the same loathsome brush that tainted the South Lebanese Army, or the Phalange before their ultimate defeat in the civil war.

If Israel wants to see junior go, it should tell its powerful supporters in the USA, of which it has many, that it has no interest whatsoever in seeing this regime sustained. The longer junior remains in power, the more the entire region is at risk to instability and war.

“And so where do the Baathists get their weapons, and would you take weapons from these same “friendly” regimes?”

The revolution’s armed needs, if it comes to that, are far more modest than junior’s. In four months, almost all of Syria has become hostile territory to the Baathists. Such land is harder to take and keep. It requires tanks, logistics, rotation of troops. One man in Bab Esba3 or Khaldia defending his home is worth twenty shabiha scum bought in from the villages around Telkelakh.

Personally, I see no reason why a peace deal that returns the Golan Heights (with provisions for water sharing) and addresses the status of Palestinian refugees should not be acceptable to most Syrians.

@105 I live to taste your tears of rage 🙂 Everytime I visit this website, I always hope to see a post that whines about Aboud.

By the way, the man who recruited 200 shabiha from the villages around Telkelakh is a well known businessman. The government gave him 5000 Syrian Liras a day for each shabiha. He, of course, only gave them 2000 liras. The families of the shabiha are quite pissed off at him for alot of reasons.

This is what they really want the death of president Assad, how can anybody blame him for fighting back ,

msnbc.com news services
updated 1 hour 20 minutes ago 2011-08-05T14:41:13
Font: +-BEIRUT — At least eight protesters were killed in a suburb of Damascus and one other elsewhere in Syria Friday, according to activists, as demonstrators in the country’s capital reportedly took up an ominous new chant that called for the execution of President Bashar Assad.

Only on msnbc.com
On the Web, your face can tell everything about you .

What’s behind all the deaths at Yosemite? .
Reuters
Probe of mystery donation to pro-Romney group sought .

Why Batman’s villains work so well .
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Only in NYC: Tiny apartment for $800/month .
..Meanwhile, Syrian state TV broadcast new images from inside Hama, a city that has become a focal point of the uprising against Assad’s regime.

The report showed streets strewn with rubble and wrecked buildings, according to BBC News, which published excerpts.

The Syrian broadcaster claimed that troops had put down an armed rebellion in the city, the BBC reported.

The Syrian TV report showed images of streets blocked by makeshift barricades set up by protesters. A tank was seen removing a large cement barrier as well as a bus that had its windshield shattered.

The report also showed a yellow taxi with a dead man in the driver’s seat and bloodstains on the door. A picture carried by state-run news agency SANA showed empty streets with debris and damaged cars.

SANA said the Syrian army was restoring “security and stability” to Hama after it was “taken over by terrorists.”

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.’With you until death’
Hama has been under military siege for six days as Assad tries to crush a growing uprising that has so far claimed the lives of at least 1,700 civilians since March.

Residents of Hama said they feared casualty figures there since military assault began on Sunday were higher than the 135 estimated killed.

Many of the tens of thousands of people estimated to have taken to the streets across Syria Friday voiced their support for the people of Hama.

“Hama, we are with you until death,” a crowd marching through Damascus’ central neighborhood of Midan shouted.

“We don’t want you Bashar” and “Bashar Leave,” they chanted while clapping their hands, according to amateur videos from Friday posted online by activists.

In another district of the capital, Qadam, protesters carried a banner reading, “Bashar is slaughtering the people and the international community is silent.”

The Guardian newspaper reported that some Damascus protesters had taken up a new slogan in what it said could be a “potentially worrying development” for Assad.

“The people want the execution of the president,” the demonstrators shouted, according to a Guardian translation of this video posted on YouTube.

The Local Coordination Committees, an activists’ organization, said that at least eight protesters were killed in attacks on pro-democracy demonstrations.

The LCC said in a statement sent to Reuters that it obtained seven names of protesters killed in the Damascus suburb of Erbin and one in Homs, 100 miles north of the capital, where tanks and armored vehicles deployed two months ago to crush dissent.

Tanks shell homes
Protests were also reported in the southern province of Daraa and Deir al-Zour in the east. Others took place in Homs in the center of the country and in Qamishli, near the Turkish border.

Security forces opened fire with live ammunition and tear gas in several cities, activists said.

The evening before, the shelling hit around sunset, while residents were having their meal breaking the fast, the resident said, asking for anonymity for fear of government reprisals.

“If people get wounded, it is almost impossible to take them to hospital,” the resident said by telephone.

Hama, a city of 800,000 with a history of dissent, had fallen largely out of government control since June as residents turned on the regime and blockaded the streets against encroaching tanks.

But Syrian security forces backed by tanks and snipers launched a ferocious military offensive that left corpses in streets Sunday and sent residents fleeing for their lives, according to residents.

The uprising began in mid-March, inspired by the revolutions sweeping the Arab world. Friday has become the main day for protests in Syria, despite the near-certainty that tanks and snipers will respond with deadly force.

‘Indiscriminate use of heavy artillery’
On Friday, a team of United Nations-appointed investigators called on Syrian forces to stop using excessive force against protesters, saying that there have been executions and other crimes punishable under international law.
In a joint statement, the independent experts called on Assad to halt his violent crackdown and pursue national dialogue, Reuters reported.
“We continue to receive reports on systematic use of excessive force resulting in killings and injuries; allegations of torture, enforced disappearances, arbitrary arrests and detention of protesters; targeting of human rights defenders; and unjustified limitations on freedoms of peaceful assembly and expression,” the panel said.
Christof Heyns, U.N. special expert on extrajudicial, summary or arbitrary executions, condemned the Syria regime’s military crackdown.
“The indiscriminate use of heavy artillery against demonstrators cannot be justified; no state is allowed to use its military force against an unarmed civilian population regardless of the situation prevailing on the ground,” he said.
“The killings that result are clearly arbitrary executions and punishable under international law,” added Heyns, a South African law professor.
Advertise | AdChoicesAdvertise | AdChoicesAdvertise | AdChoices.The U.N. working group on enforced or involuntary disappearances has received reports of people having been abducted, its chair, Jeremy Sarkin, said.
“Syrian authorities should release all those arbitrarily arrested for taking part in peaceful demonstrations or expressing different views,” said El Hadji Malick Sow, chairman of the U.N. working group on arbitrary detention.
‘Slaughtered like sheep’
Activists were detained for promoting rights, democratic reforms and national reconciliation, according to Margaret Sekaggya, U.N. special expert on the situation of human rights defenders.
Assad has largely brushed off international pressure on his regime.
Hama has seen government crackdowns before.
In 1982, Assad’s father, Hafez Assad, ordered the military to quell a rebellion by Syrian members of the conservative Muslim Brotherhood movement there.
Hama was sealed off and bombs dropped from above smashed swaths of the city and killed between 10,000 and 25,000 people, rights groups say.
Although there has been a near-total communications blackout in Hama — with electricity, internet and phone service cut off — witnesses have painted a grim picture of life in the city.
“People are being slaughtered like sheep while walking in the street,” a resident said Thursday, speaking by phone on condition of anonymity for fear of reprisals.
“I saw with my own eyes one young boy on a motorcycle who was carrying vegetables being run over by a tank,” he said.
The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.
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Data: Young and restless: Demographics fuel Mideast protests
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Like if we find him an apartment in Tehran, he will agree and will stop the killings. He sees Syria as his family’ farm and sees us as slaves and he will fight to the last loyal man. Let’s not fool ourselves. He is not different than Qaddafi.

“This is what they really want the death of president Assad, how can anybody blame him for fighting back ,”

Have we so quickly forgotten the sequence of events that lead us to this point? No one was demanding his head at the start, but he has killed so many Syrians, only a fool would be surprised that people are calling for his head on a spike. It speaks volumes of his incompetence how far he has fallen.

Of course, it is for the people of Syria to decide, but wouldn’t it be helpful if you grant Assad and his close circle immunity as long as they leave Syria and never come back? I know it is not justice, but could save months of bloodshed. Why push Assad into a corner? That could potentially cost many lives.

108. Dear norman:
You said:
“This is what they really want the death of president Assad, how can anybody blame him for fighting back”

Jr has been on the offensive since the get-go!
Was he fighting for his life when he arrested the school boys and tortured them for toying with Graffiti?
Was he fighting for his life when he authorised his brother to crush the first peacful demonstration in Dar3a who were calling for freedom, killing scores of freedom activists?

The first month of the revolution witnessed pleas from activists on the ground and in exile, including posters of SC urging Jr to privide a road map and a plan for real reforms!
He wasted a golden opportunity to co-introduce genuine reforms, and be part of a multiparty, democratic system.

Only after callously and deviously killing hundreds of civilians that he became wanted for justice for commiting crimes against humanity;
not because of balking on the introduction of needed reforms which he did,
and not for leading a cruel and corrupt regime for years, which he did,

I urge you to read N.Z. post of Samar Yazbeck’s testimony on Jr’s underground world of torture.
You may then start to at least grasp why no single Syrian who suffered or witnessed the suffering of his brethern would want less than bringing Mr Hyde to justice!

You forgot the most important point. Any Syrian-Israeli agreement MUST be approved by a democratically elected Syrian house of representatives, or via referendum. Same as in Israel. Otherwise it’s worthless.
.

http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/n.php?n=replay-of-bosnia-film-in-syria-2011-08-04
I was invited to a program on Al Jazeera Arabic on Tuesday where the questions revealed a disappointment with Turkey in terms of events in Syria. “Why is Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan so quiet on this matter,” I was asked. I explained that Erdoğan may be quiet, but Turkey is not. My reference was to the strong statement issued by the foreign ministry after the recent events in Hama on the eve of Ramadan, which for Muslims is meant to be a period of peace and reflection.

I also pointed to the fact that this statement was followed by strong remarks from President Abdullah Gül, who said one could not just sit back and watch what is happening in Syria, and from Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoğlu, who condemned those behind the killings there.

But it seems everyone is waiting for Erdoğan to vent his anger and do something, which indicates that for many in the region, Turkey at the present time is Erdoğan. In fact it will be no surprise if Erdoğan lashes out against Damascus as the killings continue. But even if he were to lambaste Bashar al-Assad and his brutal regime, what can he or Turkey actually do to prevent the bloodshed in that country?

When the chips are down it is clear that Ankara has few options in this regard. Any suggestion of a military intervention by the Turkish armed forces, as some appear to expect, is totally out of the question; unless, that is, there is a direct and tangible threat to Turkey’s national security.

The possibility of Turkey establishing a military safe zone on the Syrian side of the 850 km border has been voiced, of course, and there are some indications that this was discussed in Ankara. Even that, however, is something that will only come into force in the event of tens of thousands of refugees streaming into Turkey. Otherwise Ankara will remain highly cautious about a move that can result in confronting the Syrian military.

If the U.N. Security Council were to sanction a military intervention against Syria, on the other hand, it is also unlikely that Turkey will participate actively in this, even if it facilitates it by various means, as in Libya. Turkish public opinion is strongly against any such intervention, as public opinion in most of the Arab world is. It appears that Western public opinion does not have much of an appetite for this either.

Then there is the Iran dimension that Ankara has to consider, given that Tehran is giving moral and material support to Assad. Participation by Turkey in a unilateral or international operation against Syria could have serious consequences for Turkish-Iranian ties. These are already strained over Syria, but for pragmatic reasons neither country appears keen on a diplomatic confrontation over this issue.

Talk of a U.N. sanctioned military intervention against Syria is highly speculative anyway, since it is very unlikely that the Security Council will agree to this, because Russia and China as permanent members, and India, Brazil and Lebanon as non permanent members strongly oppose it.

They not only oppose any military intervention, but are also reluctant to bring tough U.N. sanctions against Damascus. This situation in return gives an open check to President Assad to do as he will against protestors in Hama and other cities around Syria. He knows, after all, that the likelihood of an intervention to stop him is just about zero.

This is perhaps why some in the region are looking to Ankara in desperation to do something unilaterally and hence the apparent disappointment with Erdoğan reflected by Al Jazeera. But no one should expect Turkey to intervene in this way, and Assad obviously does not.

So what has to happen before the international community draws the line against Assad? This is not clear, but it should be remembered that it took at least 200,000 dead in Bosnia, as the international community with its diverging interests and sympathies squabbled over that carnage for years, before anything was done. We seem to have a replay of that film.

Thanks for that link. It was interesting reading and listening to his recordings of people in Hama.

Just for those who don’t understand french, he describes a terrible situation, especially from the security point of view. He was even followed and his drivers stopped, despite all the care in planning. He confirmed that there was no violence before last sunday when the tanks came in. He said that the protesters did chants every night, and the big demonstration was probably 100 000 not 500 000 and he was annoyed at how it got published as such in the medias.

He confirmed that some of them were armed to try to fight off the security forces when they came in. But mostly sticks, but a few guns, and they argued amongst themselves whether to be armed or not. The elders calmed the youth.

He confirmed that some photos of tortured people were sold by some members of these forces for lots of money. He said that obviously they were filming these things and were doing it to scare others, but also for cash.

He confirmed that it was virtually impossible to get to Homs, he did but was followed. Lots of roadchecks everywhere.

The people he interviewed said that last time nobody supported the crushing, but this time far more want to change the regime and they want democracy and freedom and dignity.

He interviewed a guy who was imprisoned and tortured, he wouldn’t describe what happened to him.

I regret that I haven’t had much time in recent months to blog and write about the many developments in the still-unfolding ‘Arab Spring.’ However, I think that much of what I was writing back in March and April– especially on the extremely upsetting and complicated series of events in Libya and Syria– has stood the test of time pretty well. That has been particularly the case, I think, with regard to the warnings I issued ( e.g. 1, 2) about the danger of trying to use military tools, as in Libya, in order to pursue a claimed human-rights agenda, and with regard to the calls I made (e.g. 1, 2, and in this late-May discussion at the Middle East Institute, MP3) for people to focus on achieving a reform process in Syria that is negotiated, inclusive, and wide-ranging rather than continuing to pursue only shrill and personalized “rights” campaigns that all too easily and often shift over into highly politicized calls for regime change.

I repeat: War and extreme social conflict are always and necessarily injurious to the rights of the civilian residents of the conflict zone, especially the most vulnerable. Armchair activists in the west who have never lived in a war zone often have zero understanding of this fact.

(Though I am strong critic, on pacifist grounds, of the whole concept of a “just” war, I do think the first proponents of that originally Christian doctrine understood the always-injurious nature of war; and they coded that understanding into their injunctions that wars should only be undertaken when there was a strong chance of a speedy and decisive victory, and when the goods to be gained through any proposed war could be seen to clearly outweigh the evils that would necessarily accompany it. No-one back then ever proclaimed the idea of an “easy” war that would be a “cakewalk” or that would bring “only” good to the world! How tragic that so many in the west have lost sight of that deep wisdom embedded into the “western” tradition… )

Back to Syria, though. There, as in Libya, we have a situation in which both the regime and the opposition have now proven their resilience. This is, of course, a recipe for stalemate and prolonged conflict that, so long as it lasts– and it has now lasted several months– will cause immediate harm to Syrians of all political persuasions while also sowing the seeds of a possible much more serious social breakdown (fitna) in the future.

I want to ask two questions:

1. How many of those in the west who are now clamoring for immediate regime change in Syria think the negotiated transition from minority rule to democracy that occurred in South Africa in the early 1990s was a good thing? I would imagine the vast majority of them (of you) do.

So has the violence enacted by the minority regime in Syria even come close to the violence enacted by the former minority regime in South Africa against its people?

No. I thought not.

So why was a negotiated transition to democracy good in South Africa, while most western rights activists shudder at the very idea of one in Syria? (I hope the answer is not a racist one: Namely, that westerners were prepared to give a generous pass to members of the minority regime in South Africa because they were “white”… but they’re not prepared to do so to members of the Alawite regime in Syria because, um, they’re just another bunch of Ay-rabs… )

2. Can I invite you to a thought experiment?

I know from my own extensive research that Israel came very close to concluding a peace agreement with Syria at two points since the 1991 Madrid Conference: firstly, in 1994-95, and secondly, in 2000.

Imagine if one of those attempts had succeeded… Then, in early 2011, when the winds of the Arab Spring started blowing in Syria they would have been blowing in a country that (like Egypt) had regained all the national territory seized by Israel in 1967 and held for many years thereafter, and that was in a state of fairly well-entrenched final peace with Israel.

How different would such a Syria have been? How different would have been the role of the “security” forces in the country’s politics and national culture? How different would Syria’s whole society and economy have been from what we see there today?

Note that I am not here just mindlessly “blaming Israel” for all the woes currently besetting Syria and its people. The people inside Syria– on both sides– who have been pursuing their agendas through violence must bear the first responsibility for the losses inflicted. (And there, as in South Africa or U.S.-occupied Iraq, or anywhere else, it has been the dominant security forces that have inflicted the vast majority of the casualties…)

But still, it is worth noting that the security forces in Syria in general have only continued to occupy the bloated social, economic, and cultural role that they have been occupying because of Israel’s steadfast intransigence in the peace negotiations over the years, and because of the extreme reluctance of Israel’s negotiators to abide by the Security Council resolutions (and longstanding international norms) that insist that Israel cannot hang onto any of the Syrian territory that it occupied through war, back in 1967.

If Syria in 2011 had been in a situation of peace with Israel since 2000– even a “cold” peace, as between Egypt and Israel– then might not the internal interaction between pro-democracy forces and the military look more like what happened in Tahrir Square, and since then, in Egypt this year?

In Tahrir Square, the leaders of the military were abiding by an arrangement they had reached with the political leadership (in that time, Pres. Sadat) back in 1977, under which they vowed they would never turn their tanks against civilian protesters. Yes, I realize that pledge was given even before Egypt concluded its peace with Israel in 1978-79. But still, the fact of the peace with Israel made it a lot easier for the Egyptian military in 2011 to once again abide by the pledge they had made in 1977.

… Ah, it’s too late now to “imagine” what Syria might have looked like today if either the 1994-95 or the 2000 peace talks with Israel had succeeded. Those of us around the world who care deeply about the wellbeing of Syria’s 21 million people face the situation we face.

For my part, I’ll continue to call for a reform process in Syria that is negotiated, wide-ranging, authentically Syrian, and inclusive (including of representatives of the present regime, as well as, of course, the different strands of the opposition)– rather than calling for any specific outcome such as either the downfall or the continuation of the present regime.

(In South Africa, putting the focus on the need for real reform and respect for a truly democratic nationwide election proved to be the key that winkled the pro-apartheid National Party out of office– and gave them a decent, respected position in the political opposition… until the NP withered completely on the vine around ten years later.)

I call for the same kind of negotiated outcome in Libya, where goodness knows the damage caused by this terrible, tragic war that NATO has waged for the past five months has been unconscionable.

But in the case of Syria, let’s also not forget that the country is still one that it is in a state of war with its neighbor, Israel; and that the only way to end that state of war is through conclusion of a final peace agreement that implements all the conditions of Security Council resolutions 242 and 338. If westerners in countries that have given huge support to Israel for the past 40 years truly want to help the people of Syria– including the very numerous Syrian citizens still prevented from returning to their families’ homes and farms inside the occupied Golan– then surely they (we) should be agitating hard for Israel to conclude the kind of rules-based peace with Syria that it concluded with Egypt back in 1979. Certainly, no U.S. government aid to Israel, whether economic or military, should be given in a way that entrenches and strengthens Israel’s hold on the occupied Golan.

Thank you very much for your link of Malek Jandali. He very much reflects how I feel about the crisis. I liked his response when asked about the Syrian artists not taking active role (ie being complacent) against the regime. He said “The art is an attempt to search for truth and beauty”. Very eloquent. And also, I like his shirt.

It would be far too premature to suggest such a thing right now. One does not want to give the Baathist the impression that they can keep on killing and all will be forgiven, and that if worse comes to worse they will be allowed to live out their days in Tehran.

The regime is already fighting tooth and nail. What more can they do that they haven’t already.

Amir

“Any Syrian-Israeli agreement MUST be approved by a democratically elected Syrian house of representatives, or via referendum. Same as in Israel. Otherwise it’s worthless.”

Sadat, King Hussein and Yasser Arafat were not democratically elected. Basher Jemayel was the only democratically (sort of) leader to sign an agreement with Israel. That agreement didn’t last a year. Neither did Basher.

If junior was going to defeat this revolution, he would have done so within the first month. The fact that it was endured almost five months illustrates how completely out of junior’s control events have gotten. The invasion of Hama was a desperate attempt by the Baathist to regain control of those events.

I wouldn’t call the agreements we have with Egypt and Jordan, peace. Better call it long term truce. Only when the people accept the terms (and not the military juntas, or monarchs), it could be called peace between the peoples.
.

I wouldn’t forgive Assad either. He is a butcher and in an ideal world should stand trial for his crimes. You are confusing between forgiveness and immunity from tactical considerations.

By the way, as the person preaching constantly for a long war between Syria and Israel, I find it funny that you are preaching about forgiveness. Now that the opposition is fighting a long war against Assad, you are accusing them of being unforgiving. Isn’t that the pinnacle of hypocrisy?

My estimates always turn around 100,000, those of the activists around 500,000, they even wanted an estimate of one million.
I think their estimates for the less followed first events were too high, and now by comparison all new figures are distorted.

Clearly , the trip of this journalist has been sponsored by the Muslim Brothers in Hama ( and Geneva ).

The result is clearly not worth the risks taken ( not because of the Syrian Security forces but … )
————————
My unanswered question :

How many INNOCENT people have been killed by the terrorists ( Muslim Brothers ) between 1976 and 1982.

Actually, I would have him appear again on Charlie Rose with Professor Josh by his side. Then I would suggest sending Warren Christopher and Madge Albright for talks on the Syrian airport tarmac. For added enjoyment, I would also ask ex-President Clinton to write a book about how Dr. Assad is misunderstood, especially due to the IMMENSE pressure the Jewish Community has placed on Assad and his misunderstood regime. I would also have Walt & Mearsheimer write a short acknowledgement in Jimmy Carter’s book with additional kudos from Ken Livingston, Noam Chomsky, Norman Finkelstein, and possibly Jonathan Cook.

before we talk about Mr. Assad removal or Syria future ,, let’s talk about the following:

– what about Israel pulling out of the occupied Syrian Land ( the Golan )
– what about the thousands of Syrian people killed by the Israel in 1967 war
– what about displacing 100 of thousands of Syrian people from the Golan
– What about occupying Syrian Land for the 45 years illegally
– what about destroying Syrian cities and properties during the last 45 years
– what about leaving in our land without paying for it for the last 45 years
– what about the Syrian people those still living in the Golan under Israel occupation

my friend’s father ,fawaz sam’man a Christian from Babbelsbaa was killed today ,his killers left his body next to Mar mtanous church in babelsbaa ,his family is devastated and lost ,Abugaiath was very decent man lost his life for …..nothing

Aboud, when will victory come ? I can’t wait. Amd I’m sure the Iranians will send theuir Baseeji and IRGC thugs to stir up more trouble. That moron Saddam should have destroyed them all in 1980. Then Bashar would have been gone 2 months ago.

Your priorities are wrong. You do need first to discuss the issue of the regime in Syria before discussing issues related to Israel for the simple reason that without a government that represents the Syrian people and some stability, Israel will not discuss anything with Syria.

As far as Turkey, They are busy ,very busy with internal shuffle, the army can not be trusted, and once there problem with the army is settled I am sure Erdogan will deal with Syria, infact Bashar is taking advantage of the trouble Erdogan has with the army, and he is attacking Hama, but he will regtret it.It will take 10 more days at least.

There was a demonstartion in Muhajerine,today, yesterday in Hasan Mosque close to Guests palace. today Ryad Seif was on Tv(Alarabyeh) he said the elite in Syria will change their position soon.

Norman
You are right,Assad is fighting for life,he could have behaved different if he was sincere in true reform, before all these death, he could have saved his position and life, but he made a mistake,he still has a chance,but not his brother.

It’s a typical reaction of your basic angry Syrian Beshoboy. Your snug, smug little world is collapsing before your very eyes and even though in your heart-of-hearts, you KNEW this couldn’t last forever, you still refuse to accept it. You’re in denial. This is not happening, you tell yourself. So you blame the Jewboys and the Gringos.

Trust me on this, Akby Dude, the protestors hate the Jews and the Americanos as much as you do. And it’s not just the Jews and the USA. Syrians hate EVERYBODY. They hate Turks, Saudis, Kuwaitis, Qataris, Russians, Chinese, you name it. Hate is built into the Syrian DNA. That’s why you all are so adept at playing the blame game. The only people you refuse to blame are…

Daaaaaaamn dude, that stick up your butt must be as big as Burj Dubai. I can only guess what Syrians have done to you in the past. Did a Syrian steal your girlfriend? Did a Syrian pwn you in World of Warcraft? Did a Syrian cut you off and take your parking space?

Learn to let go. Relax. Read some Dale Carnegie. Watch some Oprah.

Actually, it’s more fun to see you go on whining.

Hsyrian

“Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius — and a lot of courage — to move in the opposite direction”

You just don’t see the irony in a Baathist posting that little nugget? Junior has done nothing but make things more violent. Thanks for confirming his stupidity.

Khalid bro, patience. We waited 40 years to deal with these shits, we can wait 40 more months if needs be. A revolution that has managed to sustain itself this long, nothing is going to be able to subdue it.

Amir, I’m afraid if what you are looking for is a treaty that will guarantee love and friendship forever, then to my knowledge no such treaty has ever been created by man.

On the other hand, your enemy of today does not necessarily mean he will be your enemy tomorrow. Just look at France and Germany.

Something I saw with my own eyes. Some guys were taking down one of the few pictures of junior left in Homs. A security guy fired a tear gas canister at them. It hit the picture and knocked it down to the ground.

Syrians do not hate everybody. On the contrary, the Syrian people is generous anr not racist at all. Of course, we have been raised on ati-West anti-Zionist slogans. All that because our ancestors experienced the treason of the Wset with the Sykes-Picot agreemnent and the Belfour Declaration. But at the same time we like the West. We like the western culture and western civilization.Indeed, ee live in dichotomy toward the West. The question how to heal the past? How can you understand the origin of the Arabs sentiment toward the West and Isreal? Also, how can we make the Arabs understand the historical perspective that made the West support the creation of Isreal? all these questions are need to be answered. I hope one day we can do that in the new Syria.

Why Mubarak’s Trial Could Mean the End of Egypt’s Youth Revolutionhttp://www.tnr.com/article/world/93223/egypt-revolution-mubarak-trial
The trial of former Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak is being hailed as a landmark moment in Arab, if not world, history. And, in a certain sense, it is. The image of the once indomitable dictator wheeled into a courtroom on a gurney, flanked by the sons who might have been his heirs, but are now his co-defendants, affirms the primary achievement of Egypt’s revolt: namely, Mubarak’s ouster. For many Egyptians, the January uprising was always about ending Mubarak’s stifling 30-year rule and preventing him from pharaonically installing his son Gamal as his successor. Now that this has been accomplished, however, most appear willing to move on—even though the military regime that Mubarak fronted is still very much intact. Even as it marks a great achievement, in other words, the dictator’s trial will likely prove a substantial, if not insurmountable, challenge for Egypt’s youth protesters, who catalyzed the anti-Mubarak revolt and are still pushing for a more transformative, democratizing revolution.

“The people who are saying [that the revolution is over] have been saying this from the day Mubarak stepped down,” says Islam Lotfy, an executive member of the Coalition of Revolutionary Youth, who has founded a new Islamist youth party. “The revolution is not marches and demonstrations. It is a huge process to change social life and the political system, and so on. So we’ve just started the process.” Yet in the six months since Mubarak resigned from office, the youth protesters have been unable to make much headway in advancing their causes. The activists’ deep internal divisions—their ranks include neo-Nasserist nationalists, revolutionary socialists, Islamists, and liberal democrats—have taken a toll on the movement, making it impossible to agree on the proper course for enacting political change. Given these realities, the only way for the protesters to stay relevant in the post-Mubarak era was to continue holding massive demonstrations. And the only way to hold massive demonstrations was by focusing on the one thing that just about everyone could agree on: that former regime officials, including Mubarak himself, should be brought to justice.

Mubarak’s trial is, therefore, a partial victory for the protesters, since their ongoing demonstrations pressured the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces, after months of dithering, to arrest and charge the former dictator. “We literally pushed [Mubarak] into this trial,” says Shadi el-Ghazaly Harb, a leading activist in the Coalition of Revolutionary Youth, touting the success of a Tahrir Square sit-in that began on July 8th and continued through the end of the month. “Without us having this sit-in, we wouldn’t have gained this. It’s a great victory for the revolution.”

But the July sit-in was, in most respects, a complete disaster. As the military accepted many of the protesters’ demands—including firing unpopular ministers, scheduling Mubarak’s trial, and offering payments to the families of those who were killed during the revolt—the protesters’ raison d’demonstration grew flimsier and public support plummeted. The three-week shutdown of Tahrir Square, which is downtown Cairo’s central thoroughfare, also incensed local businessmen, who sporadically clashed with the protesters and urged them to leave. Finally, when hard-line Islamists, known as Salafists, abandoned their commitment to another “unity” demonstration on Friday, July 29th and began calling for the institution of shari’a law, the youth protesters withdrew from the square in defeat. When military and Central Security Force police violently cleared what remained of the sit-in three days later, local businessmen cheered enthusiastically and some even joined the military in chasing protesters and destroying their tents.

The protesters, as a result, are now trapped. Their greatest mobilizing target—Mubarak—has been brought to justice, and their mobilizing methods—demonstrations—have worn thin the patience of the general population. Of course, the failure to convict Mubarak would give them an easy excuse to return to the streets. But few expect that the dictator will escape conviction. “I can’t even imagine that they will not [convict] him,” says Lotfy. “He was president, so surely he has some responsibility.”

In theory, the only way forward is for the protesters to change tactics. “I think the challenge for the Egyptian revolution is that young people should learn how to organize and establish political parties and civil society organizations, so they will be a permanent influence,” says Cairo University political scientist Mustapha Kemal Al-Sayyid. “There is much that the revolutionary groups can accomplish, but only if they change their methods—if they move away from street demonstrations and towards establishing parties and civil society organizations.”

Yet the protesters fear that shifting away from demonstrations and towards politicking is a recipe for failure. To begin, they doubt that elections will be managed fairly. “Every power is trying to sabotage our efforts and rig the elections, so we don’t expect a clean election,” said activist Ahmed Salah. “That’s why we have to keep the streets active.” More importantly, however, liberal activists are especially dubious of their ability to use elections for furthering revolutionary change. Islamists are expected to achieve major gains in the forthcoming parliamentary elections, and will therefore exert tremendous influence in the drafting of Egypt’s new constitution.

Liberal and leftist protesters are therefore hoping to find new targets for launching future demonstrations. “The people who are sitting at home—even those who have not gone to the street—are now afraid from the Islamists,” says Harb, reflecting on the impact of the Salafists’ strong showing in Tahrir Square during the July 29th demonstrations. “And if we call on them to go to the street, I can assure you that we [can summon] a hundred-thousand people to go the street tomorrow to ask for a civil state.”

For the moment, however, this seems improbable. Though activists are planning demonstrations in support of a civil state on August 12th, Ramadan fasting, summer heat, and demonstration fatigue will likely complicate their efforts to re-energize the masses. Barring a major military miscue, Mubarak’s trial is likely to drain Egypt’s would-be revolution of its remaining oxygen. The liberalizing symbolism of Mubarak on the stand is, indeed, at odds with a still-autocratic reality.

Eric Trager, the Ira Weiner fellow at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy, is a doctoral candidate in political science at the University of Pennsylvania, where he is writing his dissertation on Egyptian opposition parties.

abu umar.
You know how much I love to insult you, but I see no point in wasting my time or the editors for that matter. I will just say that using many of my paragraphs and commenting with just a sentence or two below, to make your comment appear longer is far beyond pathetic. btw, I didn’t really read it, as I never read any of your sectarian unintelligent comments. I just stumbled over it when I caught a glimpse of my name. So I have nothing more to say to you. don’t address me in any more of your comments.

Well done Abu Umar. When the Baathists sulk and tell you they don’t wanna play anymore, they have hit rock bottom. It is so delightful how many posts we are seeing from them that consists of a whine and little else.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/06/world/middleeast/06syria.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&ref=global-home
BEIRUT, Lebanon — Syria’s state media broadcast stark images of the destruction in the besieged city of Hama for the first time on Friday, showing burnt buildings, makeshift barricades and deserted streets strewn with rubble, in footage that appeared designed to show that government forces had put down a rebellion in the city.
The images were unmistakably Hama, Syria’s fourth-largest city and a focal point of the five-month-old uprising that has left President Bashar al-Assad’s leadership isolated and weakened. They suggested the military had retaken control of a city that, for two months, had wrested itself from under the government and enjoyed a measure of freedom unprecedented in four decades of authoritarian rule by the Assad family.

The reports by Syrian television and Sana, the official news agency, portrayed the army as Hama’s savior. The news appeared aimed at reinforcing the leadership’s message to internal opponents that they are regarded as armed insurrectionist gangs inspired by hostile foreign powers and will be dealt with accordingly. But the television footage of the wreckage in Hama also implicitly acknowledged that the violence there had been far more serious than Mr. Assad’s regime has until now been willing to publicly admit.

It also underlined a legacy of the assault: Hama was remarkably peaceful after security forces withdrew in June. Violence only erupted when the government, fearing the momentum the city might provide the uprising, began its ferocious assault on Sunday. Although government officials insist protesters were armed, not a single weapon was seen in the streets on a recent visit, an account confirmed by diplomats in their trips there. Barricades were set up, but only to block the return of the military and security forces.

“Today we are alive, but tomorrow we don’t know,” said a resident there who gave his name as Fadi. “The humanitarian situation is getting worse day by day.”

Government officials offered an altogether different version of events there, in reports from Damascus that appeared more and more to defy reality.

“Syrian Arab Army units are working to restore security, stability and normal life to Hama after armed terrorist groups perpetrated acts of sabotage and killing through setting up barricades, braking off roads, attacking and burning police stations, using different kinds of weapons,” according to Sana’s account of the Hama violence.

The Syrian accounts also said at least 20 soldiers had been killed in the fighting, but said nothing about civilian casualties. Activist groups reporting from Hama — the source of most information about the mayhem there since Syrian forces first besieged the city last weekend — have said at least 200 civilians have been killed by military shelling and snipers. They reported a new round of shelling on Friday.

The resident reached by phone said 200 tanks had entered the city before dawn, and that security forces were blocking residents from gathering in the city’s mosques.

“The government has given up its responsibilities and handed everything over to the security forces,” said Louay Hussein, a prominent opposition figure in Damascus. “They have lost their mind. They are acting without any strategic or political goal. The government’s armed gangs are roaming the streets, simply looking for vengeance.”

As the government pressed its crackdown on Hama, military and security forces appeared to prepare for another assault on Deir al-Zour, a city in eastern Syria knitted by the loyalties of extended clans where protests had gathered force for the past month. Those forces shelled the city on Thursday night into Friday morning, residents said.

An activist in Deir al-Zour who gave his name as Tarik said that thousands of soldiers and hundreds of tanks and armored vehicles were trying to divide the city into a smaller parts, a tactic the military has used elsewhere. Protesters still gathered in some squares, he said
“We’re trying to block the roads,” said another resident, a grocer who gave his name as Mohammed. He put the numbers of protesters Friday in the tens of thousands and quoted demonstrators chanting, “We don’t want the army inside the cities.”
ome residents, also reached by phone, reported shortages of food and water.

Reports of defections have abounded for weeks now, especially in Deir al-Zour, but they seem too small to threaten Mr. Assad’s hold on the security apparatus.

Syrians elsewhere took to the streets after the first Friday noon prayers of the holy month of Ramadan in another bold challenge to the government’s crackdown. Activists reported tens of thousands of protesters joining “God is with us” marches in the streets of several cities, including Dara’a in the south and Homs, Syria’s second-largest city.

The Local Coordination Committees, which has sought to organize and document the protests, said that security forces killed 14 people Friday, 11 of them in the restive suburbs of Damascus, two in Homs and one in Dara’a, where the revolt began in March.

In some of the demonstrations, protesters chanted in support of Hama, a city with a special resonance in Syria. In 1982, Mr. Assad’s father, Hafez, ordered the military to crush an Islamist uprising there, killing 10,000 and probably many more. Then, as now, journalists were unable to cover the events, largely blinding the world to the violence.

The Syrian media’s portrayal of what is happening in Hama came as activists reported a new round of shelling in the city overnight that they said was preventing food and medical supplies from entering residential areas, promoting shortages and raising fears among many that the death toll there could escalate dramatically.

Satellite connections offered one of the few remaining conduits to get information out of the besieged area, though some activists also said that the government was interfering with satellite communications as well.

Wissam Tarif, an activist with Avaaz, a human rights group, said that he spoke with a doctor in Hama who told him that the casualties have increased dramatically since Thursday. The doctor said that he and his colleagues had been triaging the wounded and dying because they faced a major shortage of medical supplies and equipment.

“The city is running out of everything,” Mr. Tarif said. He mentioned bread, food, baby formula and water.

International condemnation of Mr. Assad has intensified because of the repression in Hama, with blunt criticism from Syria’s historically close allies, Turkey and Russia. In Washington on Thursday, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton accused the Syrian leadership of responsibility for the deaths of more than 2,000 Syrians since the nationwide uprising began. She also reiterated the Obama administration’s position that Mr. Assad had “lost all legitimacy to govern the Syrian people.”

The Obama administration also expanded its punitive sanctions on Thursday against senior Syrian officials to include a wealthy confidante of the Assad family, Muhammad Hamsho, who is a member of Syria’s parliament, and his conglomerate, Hamsho International Group. The sanctions freeze any Hamsho assets under American jurisdiction and ban Americans from doing business with any Hamsho subsidiary.

And how long do the Besho Brigades think they can stay in Hama. Every place they have tried to occupy has just come out and demonstrated again. Baniyas, Dar’a, Telkelakh, Rastan, Talbisi. Jisr Al Shoghour is still a ghost town.

Where are the throngs of Hamwis to welcome the Besho Brigades? Oh right, there are no Alawite villages near Hama, so they can’t bus in their supporters to fake a menhebak demo.

That’s what you come up with? You seem to be running out of energy. Go drink your daily glass of blood. That should give you a good kick. Whats on the menu today? security officers or civilians? Your wahabi friends can help you out with that one.

I have not changed my mind, I still think what the Arab and Syria lacked so far is a tolerance for a long war that will destroy the Israeli economy and make the Israeli immigrants to the US like you

What is happening in Syria is just a way to build the tolerance of the people for that war that will destroy Israel, Assad wanted to get the Golan and the Palestinian right peacefully but failed to understand what i believe in and that is . as long as Israel does not have to give the Golan it will not do so, It has to be forced, Assad did not have the drive and the determination to do that, So If i were you, i will not sleep thinking that the Syrians are busy with each other as sooner or later they will be comming for your children and grand children , but it is comming,

You only chance is to give from strengths as that will not last forever .

“There is no strong voice in favor of the regime to be heard or given attention to on SC.”

But Tara if what you are saying is true, it means that anti-regime are talking amongst themseleves also. It goes back to what came first the egg or the chicken. So who stopped listening to the otherside first b/c maybe they come off too weak and hard to talk to. Just a thought.

WOW What a day. What is foremost are the images from the writer Samar Yazbek, I wonder if her testimony can be used for the future trial of Bashar in the International Court, and those hundreds or thousands of sadists who work for him.

It often takes courageous artists to push public opinion, after all that’s also their job. That some don’t wish to meddle in ‘politics’, or are afraid to is also understandable.

The article (can’t be bothered to scroll back) about comparing Egypt, South Africa etc and blaming Israel for everything and Nato, is yet another hypocritical piece that never mentions the word ‘islamist’ or to even mention that the biggest reason for all the dictator’s brutality was the world islamist radicalisation from the MB, salafist and Al Qaeda type movements. This is open knowledge, that the prisons were full of them, deals were done with these dictators to keep them at bay.

Another thing that this intellectual lady doesn’t mention is that these regions that embraced soviet marxism, as all their leaders were socialists, yet they crushed their fellow communists, including Khomeini, when they didn’t fall in line, and now, these oldies are coming out from the woodwork on blogs with old soviet type slogans and terrible design (no doubt their kids or grand-kids are too busy playing WOW to help them) are now mired with these would -be Lenins or Stalins, and are making a fine mess of these ‘revolutions’. The word ‘revolution’ itself doesn’t seem to mean the same nowadays, and no doubt these Nasserists can’t quite make out what happened in the mean time, after all Bin Laden didn’t exist and is already dead.

So when reading the last bit about how the Mubarak trial is going to ‘kill’ the ‘secularists’ revolution, I can understand the worry. There may not be that many real secularists and liberal democrats when you get rid of all the other weirdos who suddenly are discovering that they can write on a blog without getting their phones tapped.

And then there’s Norman who wants a long term war with Israel, really I wonder what he had for breakfast.

A bit of fresh air with ‘Syrian Pride’, who’s the first one who says he likes the west and even tries to educate people on history about Israel.

I still agree with Dale A, though that many Syrians do hate others and blame others, but that’s (as pride says), no doubt because of their decades of brainwashing from their decadent dictators.

Ah, yes about the Swiss reporter who got into Hama, someone said that no doubt he was funded by MB, well, it would be nice that he did a bit of investigation. But never mind, maybe he’s biased, I can’t tell. As for the numbers of demonstrators on that day, what does it matter, it’s not important.

Of course, I lost another few layers of tooth while listening to the repeated ‘if god willing’ of these people, but WTF.

And BTW, Ali or someone, can you explain why the slogans put ‘God, Syria, Freedom (or Bashar) in that order ? Does this mean that everyone wants a theocracy before the nation before the individual ? Weird, I’ll never understand you guys.

That is a very weird moderation, why Ali’s comment where removed and he was banned for writing a comment that is criticizing Tara? It was an opinion about Tara’s comment, I read what he wrote before it was removed. Who is this new moderator? We have the right to know, Moderation shouldn’t be about the moderator’s relationship with those who he/she agree/disagree with. Is SC encouraging nepotism now!!?
Who is the moderator?

1.) Considering the brutality of the Syrian regime against the protesters, you can’t expect them not to take up arms to protect themselves. To my knowledge the protesters have no tanks and no missiles.

2.) How anyone can believe SANA or pro-Baathist news reports is beyond naive considering the Syrian government doesn’t allow any access for international reporters.

Ape obama is a zionist sponsered dictator who suppreses all americans which starve,live on the street and get beat up by the police.Monkey obama eats KFC chicken wings,watermelons and mischel spanks his little monkey ,obama is yust scum of the earth.Muslims and freeman and everybody who believes in freedom and justice inside the usa must LIBERATE the us from dictatorship and its dictator obama.Built one man cells all over the USA well coordinated but operating in one man cells so you cannot be INFILTRATED«««LONE WOLF«««it works.Buy guns and ammonition over local newspapers they yust want money,no waiting period,cannot be TRACED.Avoid internet,cell phones can be TRACED .STONE AGE«communication is GOOD««.Buy books from the PALADIN PRESS study them and use your knowledge.US id cards ,driver licenses you can buy in mexican bordertowns they are pretty good fakes.LIBERATION must come from the inside of the USA by muslims ,freeman and all brave americans who believe in freedom and justice must start a REVOLUTION and OVERTHROW monkey obamas DICTATORSHIP and LIBERATE THE USA by all means .It is the DUTY of all muslims to LIBERATE the USA from the DEVIL and its servants.LIBERATION MUST come from the «««INSIDE«««of the USA.LIBERATE the USA it is time for the REVOLUTION of the SUPRESSED poor people because you have the POWER to make the CHANGE happen ,so RISE and SHINE freedomfighters «««your TIME has come for the REVOLUTION of the PEOPLE «««The POWER is yours«««FREEDOM«««LIBERTA«««comrade ,Fredomfighter, Zsolt Sass