What is BJJ's defense against SJM?

I'm curious about this. I thought to myself that with my really limited groundfighting skills (3 years of folkstyle), if I were to get into a fight on t3h str33t with a BJJer, and it went to the ground, the first thing I would start doing is grabbing his fingers and start breaking.

However, I know BJJ would have some way to prevent this, and I'm curious as to what that is. Is it that they're able to obtain positional dominance quickly enough that they don't concern themselves with actively countering attempts at SJM, or do they have some specific method with dealing with SJM?

Re: What is BJJ's defense against SJM?

Originally posted by Emevas I'm curious about this. I thought to myself that with my really limited groundfighting skills (3 years of folkstyle), if I were to get into a fight on t3h str33t with a BJJer, and it went to the ground, the first thing I would start doing is grabbing his fingers and start breaking.

However, I know BJJ would have some way to prevent this, and I'm curious as to what that is. Is it that they're able to obtain positional dominance quickly enough that they don't concern themselves with actively countering attempts at SJM, or do they have some specific method with dealing with SJM?

Thanks in advance.

If you went to the ground with someone who knew what they were doing, you would never have a CHANCE to get their fingers, unless you got lucky.

It takes more pressure to break any bone than I think some people realise -- and getting your finger broken isn't really incapacitating, 'less you are a total *****. I say this from having broken fingers and toes, in training and out, and barely noticed till the X-rays and the doctor's irritated: "Why did you leave this untreated for 6 weeks?".

Additional: Having broken fingers dosen't effect most of the best BJJ moves. I don't need to grasp your arm to snap your elbow with an armbar. I can contol you with a forearm wrap or some such.

Re: Re: What is BJJ's defense against SJM?

Originally posted by JKDChick If you went to the ground with someone who knew what they were doing, you would never have a CHANCE to get their fingers, unless you got lucky.

So it's more about obtaining positional dominance as quickly as possible than it is about actively countering attempts at SMJ? Does BJJ have any drills specifically against SMJ, or is it always just an attempt at dominanace?

Hehe, oops, butchered the acronym a few times it seems. SJM (Small Joint Manipulation) as defined by that which they have banned in the UFC. Stuff that involves applying pressure to/breaking/locking up the fingers and other small joints.

Don't have any training officially in SJM (like Chin Na, or anything like that), just some basic manipulation.

And 'fore anyone gets the wrong impression, I have not made this thread to say something to the effect that "Haha, BJJ is defenseless against my finger twisting". It's just something I was curious about today whe I was thinking about what I'd do if I ever got into a fight with someone who knew more than I did about the ground.

like JKDChick said (I believe) ?Bjj doesen't really grasp with the fingers but more likely hooks and wraps with the forearm. In a severe encounter I don't think SMJ could effectivly contain a skilled Sub. Grappler. especially when considering adreneline and such.

Secret moves such as hitting a thing with your hand and hitting a thing with your leg have been stolen and degenerated by arts like karate, boxing, muay-thai, Kung-fu, and basketball. -Epicurious

I for one welcome our new Ninja overlords.
-Whiteshark

I figure fighting a group of chunners would be like water torture, its not the force as such, just the constant trickle of chain punches wearing down your sanity. -The Juggernoob

Just as a side note, small joint manipulation is more likely to subluxate or dislocate a finger rather than breaking it outright. True, some dislocations will result in an avulsion fracture, but most of the time you will just be tearing ligaments and tendons, which DOES hurt a lot but probably won't incapacitate someone very quickly. Keep in mind they still have 9 more functional fingers. . .

Deluxe247 tells it like it is:

you ninja fags just got owned in a bad way. this thread should go to the classics and mega thread forum due to the sheer size of taebo_master and gajusceaser's penis. (with which they just smacked across these ninja's faces)
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