Can anyone believe that IHHA President Marty Engle took off for a vacation during the most important contract negotiations in years??? We have no contract and hes not going to be back to I hear the 29th.This is why all IHHA members should just cancel there membership. If its true he took a vacation at this time it only goes to prove my earlier post that he could give a RATS ASS about ILL racing when most of his horses are racing in NJ. All IHHA members should ask him to step down NOW !!!! Then DAVE MCSTUPID can just sign the 2006 contract that says we agree to race for RACEWAY PARK purses.

You MORONS elect a guy because you think hes going to change what past Presidents still have not been able to do and thats get a good contract. What other business works like this

Everyone knows that the "DUMB" Mcafferry is really the IHHA President anyway.Please name one thing Daves done to help ILLINOIS HARNESS RACING, JUST ONE ? -----IM WAITING-----

I could never understand why horseman are starting other unions downstate, well now I know!!! Tired of the same old FU@KING they get from the IHHA YEAR AFTER YEAR.

I got frustrated yesterday when this subject came up in 3 phone conversations. What the IHHA needs is a professional negotiator, one who can't be influenced or bought by the tracks. This person should NOT be invested in the sport,just in seeing his clients succeed at the bargaining table. JJ and PL admire professionalism more than anything else; they admire someone with guts - guts to take them head-on. The IHHA should find such a person, hire them, and watch the good deals land on ttheir side of the ledger for once. TC

Can anyone believe that IHHA President Marty Engle took off for a vacation during the most important contract negotiations in years??? We have no contract and hes not going to be back to I hear the 29th.This is why all IHHA members should just cancel there membership. If its true he took a vacation at this time it only goes to prove my earlier post that he could give a RATS ASS about ILL racing when most of his horses are racing in NJ. All IHHA members should ask him to step down NOW !!!! Then DAVE MCSTUPID can just sign the 2006 contract that says we agree to race for RACEWAY PARK purses.

You MORONS elect a guy because you think hes going to change what past Presidents still have not been able to do and thats get a good contract. What other business works like this

Everyone knows that the "DUMB" Mcafferry is really the IHHA President anyway.Please name one thing Daves done to help ILLINOIS HARNESS RACING, JUST ONE ? -----IM WAITING-----

I could never understand why horseman are starting other unions downstate, well now I know!!! Tired of the same old FU@KING they get from the IHHA YEAR AFTER YEAR.

Leave Marty alone, he's worked very hard at getting nothing done other than seeing his chronic abuser-trainer walk between the raindrops of justice again - for now. I'm sure Mc Caffrey is fully capable of tackling the Gestapo - (pause, silence, then massive guffaws). TC

Leave Marty alone, he's worked very hard at getting nothing done other than seeing his chronic abuser-trainer walk between the raindrops of justice again - for now. I'm sure Mc Caffrey is fully capable of tackling the Gestapo - (pause, silence, then massive guffaws). TC

Thats exactly what Im saying. This what happens when guys like McStupid are elected. More fuel for the outside Impartial negotiator theory.

While I have always said that hiring an outside professional to do the negotiating is the best way, there is the huge problem of Johnson/Langley corruptly paying them off(as is rumored with the racing board). You would need to find someone who hates/strongly dislikes them and knows how to get the job accomplished AND who would love to stick it to J/L.

This is why you actually should have 3 negotiators not just one. One always leaves the chance of corruption. 3, that way if there is a difference of opinion you have the odd number to cast the deciding vote.

While I have always said that hiring an outside professional to do the negotiating is the best way, there is the huge problem of Johnson/Langley corruptly paying them off(as is rumored with the racing board). You would need to find someone who hates/strongly dislikes them and knows how to get the job accomplished AND who would love to stick it to J/L.

'naut, in the true spirit of the holidays, how 'bout not "sticking it" to J/L, just getting what is fair for the horsemen ? No one says that they should suffer, but the horsemen are suffering right now, and the suffering will only get worse after Jan. 1. Hatred clouds the thinking process sometimes and someone who can't be bought is a huge priority. TC

Listen "DEAD HEAD" I would love to run for President. But I thought for what You see you cant beat City Hall and no one ever has. Morgan tried but the low life losers on the board like Mccaffery back stabbed Tony into signing a contract he knew was no good. If they didnt stand behind Tony their not going to stand behind an AWOL president Marty.

If no one even Morgan even geniuses like you could do the job and make a difference why are you firing on Marty?

While I have always said that hiring an outside professional to do the negotiating is the best way, there is the huge problem of Johnson/Langley corruptly paying them off(as is rumored with the racing board). You would need to find someone who hates/strongly dislikes them and knows how to get the job accomplished AND who would love to stick it to J/L.

.naut, I just was reminded of a good candidate, one who already knows how to battle the Gestapo and take them the distance - attorney Joe Parisi. The Gestapo are driven nuts by this guy because he is a tough negotiator and can befuddle those polecats and keep them off guard. TC

You guys are all full of sh*t!If Marty really did leave town for a few days of R&R I think it's just great.Nothing could be a better negotiation ploy than telling Billy and the boys to gojust "play with themselves" for a few days until they come up with a realisticcontract proposal. And having Marc Laino as a mediator at these negotiation meetingsis like having Eugene Pincham and Dorothy Tillman mediate a slave reparations arbitration.

.naut, I just was reminded of a good candidate, one who already knows how to battle the Gestapo and take them the distance - attorney Joe Parisi. The Gestapo are driven nuts by this guy because he is a tough negotiator and can befuddle those polecats and keep them off guard. TC

THAT WAS MY POINT. HAVE A GOOD ATTORNEY WHO IS NOT AFRAID OR INTIMIDATED BY THESE ASSES. IF THE HORSEMEN WOULD TRY IT JUST ONE TIME LIKE THIS, I'LL BET THEY WOULD BE SHOCKED AT THE RESULTS.

You guys are all full of sh*t!If Marty really did leave town for a few days of R&R I think it's just great.Nothing could be a better negotiation ploy than telling Billy and the boys to gojust "play with themselves" for a few days until they come up with a realisticcontract proposal. And having Marc Laino as a mediator at these negotiation meetingsis like having Eugene Pincham and Dorothy Tillman mediate a slave reparations arbitration.

I AGREE. WHY SHOULD MARTY WAIT AROUND FOR THE JOHNSTONS TO DECIDE WEATHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO TALK. UP THERE ASS I SAY. I TOTALLY AGREE WITH BURRIGHT ABOUT HAVING MARC LAINO IN THE ROOM WHILE TALKS ARE GOING ON. HAVING MARC LAINO IN THE ROOM FOR NEGOCIATIONS IS LIKE ALLOWING TOM WENDT TO BE EMPLOYED IN AN INSURANCE OFFICE SELLING WORKMANS COMPENSATION INSURANCE TO THE HORSEMEN!!

Your x-ray vision must be dis "Lex" ic , it is the Johnston`s who are on vacation until next week.

I know I will probably get bashed for this but McCaffrey brings "class" to the sport as well as some big time owners from around here and from NY-NJ and they spend their money here as well as ship some their horses here.JMO

I think we covered this before they are called Associations not Unions and they are dividing us allinto seperate groups just the way the race track owners want us to be.IMHO

Your x-ray vision must be dis "Lex" ic , it is the Johnston`s who are on vacation until next week.

I know I will probably get bashed for this but McCaffrey brings "class" to the sport as well as some big time owners from around here and from NY-NJ and they spend their money here as well as ship some their horses here.JMO

I think we covered this before they are called Associations not Unions and they are dividing us allinto seperate groups just the way the race track owners want us to be.IMHO

i met McCaffrey out east in penn. agree - he's classy and his owners seem to just want good horses...and they'll pay for em too! whew - i don't wanna know the money McCaffrey paid for horses out there

McCaffrey is the only bright star in this whole process. "President" Langley runs around 24/7 bashing him to anyone who will listen. That, alone, should tell you that he McCaffrey is a thorn in their side and should be involved. My question is why are Smolin and Krause are involved. Also, for all the S.A.I.L. supporters, I hear that your president - Terry Hunt has even been at a few negotiating meetings.

I have never posted on this forum, but I was so disgusted with what I've been reading that I couldn't stop myself. What is wrong wth you people? Let me start by saying that I am a friend of George Bonomo's. He is on this present negotiating committee and is working very hard at getting a good contract. He has nothing but good things to say about his fellow committeemen. They spend hour upon hour in meetings with the Johnston's and for you guys (who are supposed to be on our side) to come on here and bash them and make fun of them is idiotic. The only thing you do a good job at is bashing the Johnston's, who in this instance are the opponents and if you must bash, you guys should bash them. Also, let me say that I know Marty and he is a good guy who, while politically damaged by the Rucker situation, is trying to get a good contract and won't sign a bad one.Also, let me say, Superman, you are wrong about Dave Mccaffrey. I asked Tony Morgan myself who is the most important board member and he said hands down Dave Mccaffrey. He told me that Dave knows and understands the facts better than anyone. He also said that the Johnstons hate having Dave at the negotiating meetings because he calls them on all of their accusations and lies.Now, to be honest, I don't know this Al Beals fellow but I wouldn't bash him because he is on our side.Also, Terry Hunt and Sam Lilliy are on the negotiating team and they seem like good people.So, knock it off, bash the opponent if you must, but try to be supportive.

I have never posted on this forum, but I was so disgusted with what I've been reading that I couldn't stop myself. What is wrong wth you people? Let me start by saying that I am a friend of George Bonomo's. He is on this present negotiating committee and is working very hard at getting a good contract. He has nothing but good things to say about his fellow committeemen. They spend hour upon hour in meetings with the Johnston's and for you guys (who are supposed to be on our side) to come on here and bash them and make fun of them is idiotic. The only thing you do a good job at is bashing the Johnston's, who in this instance are the opponents and if you must bash, you guys should bash them. Also, let me say that I know Marty and he is a good guy who, while politically damaged by the Rucker situation, is trying to get a good contract and won't sign a bad one.Also, let me say, Superman, you are wrong about Dave Mccaffrey. I asked Tony Morgan myself who is the most important board member and he said hands down Dave Mccaffrey. He told me that Dave knows and understands the facts better than anyone. He also said that the Johnstons hate having Dave at the negotiating meetings because he calls them on all of their accusations and lies.Now, to be honest, I don't know this Al Beals fellow but I wouldn't bash him because he is on our side.Also, Terry Hunt and Sam Lilliy are on the negotiating team and they seem like good people.So, knock it off, bash the opponent if you must, but try to be supportive.

i'm surprised that you can continually be optimistic. how long have you been around this business for?

maybe these "negotiators" are working hard - but obviously they aren't getting anywhere and haven't for years. maybe we should be getting professionals involved so we, the horsemen, and you, the cappers, don't get screwed by a two month "lay-off"

TC, tell me when the horsemen got a fair share of the betting pools? I would imagine that it was before my time. Simucasting was the true start of the downfall of the horsemen. Then came the different take-outs from the wps-gimmick pools. And then the intertrack and the betting parlors were next on the slide and finally recapture(which should have NEVER been agreed to) was not going to be paid by the state. I almost think that it is too late to save harness racing in Illinois. At least with Johnson and Langley in command.(They love that feeling-they're power crazy,ask anyone who has seen them in a rage)What leverage do the horsemen have?? If they go on strike-the tracks will continue simulcasting. They did before. I'm going to agree with Dan ***-it's a dead game in Illinoiis. I look for J/lL/Tricky Dick D to make racing look as bad as they can so they can go to the legislature and plead for the slots. And when/if that happens, you can really kiss harness racing off. The horsemen will never get a fair share of that. J/L will have the best bean counters(and hiders)around.

You guys are all full of sh*t!If Marty really did leave town for a few days of R&R I think it's just great.Nothing could be a better negotiation ploy than telling Billy and the boys to gojust "play with themselves" for a few days until they come up with a realisticcontract proposal. And having Marc Laino as a mediator at these negotiation meetingsis like having Eugene Pincham and Dorothy Tillman mediate a slave reparations arbitration.

i agree

2 tears ago pl & jj left so why cant we. let them think a little. i just wish marty was the man for the job he's not, he don't care as rucker don't. if they did they would be here racing not out east.

I Have a solution hire Dominic the announcer he negotiated contracts for 25 years at Nabisco his previous gig. Plus he's italian and I heard he's connected and knows where hoffa is. That should strike some fear in the Johnstons.

I Have a solution hire Dominic the announcer he negotiated contracts for 25 years at Nabisco his previous gig. Plus he's italian and I heard he's connected and knows where hoffa is. That should strike some fear in the Johnstons.

NO WAY AM I GOING FOR YOUR SOLUTION TO OUR PROBLEM BY HIRING DOMINICK P. AS OUR NEGOCIATER. SEE IF WE HIRE DOMINICK THAT WOULD MEAN THAT FU**EN SCOTT EARACHE WOULD BE BACK HERE ANNOUNCING THE RACES AND THEN OUR PRODUCT WOULD REALLY SUFFER. WALK AROUND THE CLUBHOUSE ON ANY NIGHT AND ASK THE FANS HOW THEY FEEL ABOUT RACING SINCE THE EARACHE LEFT. YOU WILL HEAR NOTHING BUT GOOD STORIES ABOUT HOW HAPPY EVERYONE IS THAT THE LOUD MOUTH PRICK EARACHE IS GONE FOR GOOD. LETS KEEP IT THAT WAY. DOMINICK IS THE BEST ANNOUNCER IN CHICAGO HISTORY AND ERLICK WAS THE WORST!!