MacBook USB Port Inequality

An audio issue is every DJ’s worst nightmare, after all audio is our art! For digital DJs, there are two sets of audio to worry about: analogue and digital, with USB being the most popular means for our digital hook-up. For MacBook and MacBook Pro users, the choice of which of the two available USB ports to use for your sound card hook-up may have never occurred to you. New evidence is showing, that especially with the new i5 and i7 models, you might be missing out on performance by choosing the wrong port.

Background

As digital audio performance increases, with higher sampling rates and greater bit depth, the speed of our USB port becomes more significant. Most high end sound cards require USB 2.0 to even operate, with some cards even have multiple configurations. For example, the Numark Omni will only provide 4 channel output if it detects a USB 2.0 connection, defaulting to 2 channels if it detects anything lower.

How does this affect you? The ability for a port to receive and transmit at specified rates affects our audio settings. If we want to have a high sample rate working at a low latency, the port needs be reading and writing quickly. When audio drop outs occur, often our only remedy is to increase latency. And we know that when the latency is too high, our actions become noticeably out of sync with the audio.

With only 2 USB ports on the 13″ and 15″ MB and MBP, Apple have shuffled around USB users on its internal USB hub scheme over the years. Hardware like the keyboard/trackpad, iSight, memory card reader, Bluetooth and the IR receiver are all USB devices attached to the internal hub. And depending on the configuration of the laptop, the devices are piggybacked differently onto your 2 USB ports.

Native Instruments thinks that the issue is serious enough to include recommended USB ports for Mac users in all it’s soundcard manuals in the Troubleshooting section. Hercules also have it in their FAQ. Serato do not go into specifics as to which port to use, but acknowledge that one port is “good” and the other “bad”.

PC users may rejoice at this one, but should first check their internal USB hub is functioning optimally. Then, after disabling USB energy saver mode, they can shout back “Get a PC” at the Mac users!

Core/Core Duo MacBooks

For MBP models with ports on the left and right, only those on the left are recommended. For MB and MBP models with the both ports on the left (as in the above photo), only the port furthest from the screen is recommended (often referred to as the front port). These recommendations have stood since the early days of the MBP, with the trackpad and iSight specifically pointed out as devices causing poor port performance.

To quantify the difference between the ports on my Dec 2009 MBP 13”, I used Ableton Live’s audio test tone with a NI Audio Kontrol 1 on both ports. For those unfamiliar, Live provides a test tone with a simulated CPU load for testing audio latency. After setting the sample rate to 192 kbps and the CPU load to 80%, I reduced the samples to minimum (lowest latency) and started increasing until there were no more drop-outs. The results were very similar (74 samples or 3.30 ms latency for the front and 88 samples or 3.38 ms latency for the rear), but the front port repeatably required a few less samples before the drop outs stopped. The relatively small difference indicates that either port could successfully be used for a sound card and that Apple seem to have distributed the USB peripherals evenly on the latest builds.

Core i5 and i7 MacBook Pros

DJRiO sent us an article on the new Core iX family of MacBook Pros that indicates the newer models are subject to one “good” port and one “bad” port too, but that the good and bad are reversed from the old norm. The article from Hardmac has graphical representation that the rear port has a much higher read/write performance than the front.

To illustrate the difference, hereafter are captures of a test performed with a SSD drive installed in an external enclosure USB 2.0:

On the USB port located close to the user sitting in front of his MBP, the following results are obtained:

On the most distant USB port from the user:

The first port is almost twice slower than the second one, limited to 15 MB/s in writing and 22 MB/s in reading, while the other port reaches the maximal performance level offered by the USB 2.0 enclosure.

They go on to list the keyboard/trackpad, memory card reader and Bluetooth all connected to the front port, while the rear has the iSight and IR receiver, indicating a possible overload on the front port.

A quick Google search found a user on MacRumors forum with very similar results.

What should I do?

For those that don’t have issues and feel there system is working as it should, there is nothing to do except keep using the ports in the same way you always have. But for those that have had issues in the past, especially if you have a habit of changing how you hook-up your equipment, it is worth while testing to see which port is best for your audio card and then always connecting in that configuration. After all, you owe it to your dance floor to make sure your sound is optimized, and with only 2 ports to check this is an easy one to check and get right.

Special thanks to DJRiO for bringing this information to our attention.

Sometimes I use my mac book pro running mountain lion to play back iTunes songs and cd’s that I’ve added to iTunes for talent shows and pageants. I have been outputting through the headphone jack using a common 1/8″ stereo Y cable into my audio mixer. I tried using the usb port on the right side of the MBP and had no audio feed. How can I use my usb port to run into my mixer. I feel that the sound quality should be better that way or atleast it was on my old HP Pavillion DV-7 laptop.

Amazin5280

Just bought MBP 13″ I5 2 usb hubs w/sd slot..hooked up to S4 now it drops out. tried to adjust audio latency and sample rate at 88200hz still cracks..please help!!!
i was told to wait for the NI to update the S4 with the NEW 3.0 USB.??

An audio issue is every DJ’s worst nightmare, after all audio is our art! For digital DJs, there are two sets of audio to worry about: analogue and digital, with USB being the most popular means for our digital hook-up. For MacBook and MacBook Pro users, the choice of which of the two available USB ports to use for your sound card hook-up may have never occurred to you. New evidence is showing, that especially with the new i5 and i7 models, you might be missing out on performance by choosing the wrong port.

Until thunderbolt takes off, it’s still FW that rules the roost, I have none of these issues because I have a FW audio interface, though I’m looking forward to the availability of thunderbolt interfaces !

DiscoDraft

I use a Apogee Mini DAC with firewire… the data transfer rate of firewire is much better. and more stable. I create and aggregate device in my midi settings to allow for this.

DiscoDraft

I use a Apogee Mini DAC with firewire… the data transfer rate of firewire is much better. and more stable. I create and aggregate device in my midi settings to allow for this.

guest

Is this Steve jobs idea of a joke? What an asshole. Apple trying to rip people off in any way they can. It’s bad enough that there is only 2 usb ports on the smaller pros but to have them setup like this? Most PC laptops have minimum 3 or 4 usb ports.

Anonymous

I’ve used a Griffin Firewave for a while and I find it pretty fantastic. Latency is about as low as you can get and I’ve never had any issued even with Snow leopard. There was one chap that mentioned that using a firewire 400 device being like using a hub, but he’s mistaken. Firewire 800 has the native firewire 400 pins and it’s a matter of simply getting the right cable.
Namaste

anon

This also affects recording with the Griffin iMic. My iMic will record on the rear USB port, but the front one won’t record, though it does recognize the iMic.

anon

This also affects recording with the Griffin iMic. My iMic will record on the rear USB port, but the front one won’t record, though it does recognize the iMic.

anon

This also affects recording with the Griffin iMic. My iMic will record on the rear USB port, but the front one won’t record, though it does recognize the iMic.

anon

This also affects recording with the Griffin iMic. My iMic will record on the rear USB port, but the front one won’t record, though it does recognize the iMic.

anon

This also affects recording with the Griffin iMic. My iMic will record on the rear USB port, but the front one won’t record, though it does recognize the iMic.

Anonymous

Hope you can get back to me here….
I have a problem with my traktor setup. I have a SSD external drive (usb) with my music & my kontrol X1 & audio 8 soundcard.
I only have 2 usb hubs… Is there a converter for the usb cable to switch into firewire or something for the kontrol x1?
I don’t want an external usb hub that takes power and such due to my mobile gigging.
Hope you can get back to me. Thanks in advance!

Krylee

A little late to this one… But since I am only using one USB with my S4, which port should I use? I have a 15″ MBP pre june 2009 (no SD slot) that I got in May 2009.

Krylee

A little late to this one… But since I am only using one USB with my S4, which port should I use? I have a 15″ MBP pre june 2009 (no SD slot) that I got in May 2009.

dennisparrott

the issues outlined in this article aren’t the ONLY issues with USB 2.0 ports on a laptop…

if you’re attaching an external control surface/soundcard like a Hercules RMX, Vestax, etc. you can find yourself in a situation where POWER is a problem!

i have a 2007 Macbook Pro (2 USB, 2 Firewire – 400 & 800) using traktor duo and the Hercules RMX. the Hercules since day one I got the thing has drawn way too much power and would trip out the USB port causing you to have to reboot.

i bought a targus USB hub that supplies extra power for things that draw too much. sadly they no longer make it…

i was so torqued off i was ready to junk the hercules and buy something else but it seemed that for every controller out there i found somebody in a forum somewhere complaining that it would trip out the USB port on their laptop — Macs and PCs both have the issue.

most of the controller vendors don’t want to add an external power supply because it raises cost. users don’t really want them because it is just one more black wall wart to lose. BUT the fact remains that most control surfaces are designed to draw at a rate that is close to the ragged edge of the USB spec.

hope this helps some other poor sap who can’t figure out why the controller trips out his USB every time he plugs it in…

Oh, BTW, a powered USB hub is NOT a guarantee of success either… the hub has to provide more power than the USB spec calls for or it will trip out as well….

dennis

Jes.C

last nite at my gig, i flipped the usb cable port 1 for vci port 2 for audio card, and i got nothing but nasty drop outs.

Bob

LOL Mac. So does this mean that all the Apple fanboys will shut up now? And the ridiculous Apple bias on the site will be kept in check?

chris

for all the people that’s telling: “buy firewire”

LOL

can you tell me how many models of firewire 800 audio card exist ???

they are all firewire 400…….and macbook has only firewire 800…..so, you must use an adapter……and with these special audio cards, i wouldn’t use an adapter….. it will be like using a usb hub

so, for me the solution for now doesn’t exist…

MAC SHIT, we spend so much for have the same of pc-users (i have a mbp 13 2009)

Djuadio

FireWire 800 is your only solution for the bidirectional read/write capabilities. USB 3.0 will have the same mean while USB 2 will be slow.

Wow.. 2 replies aimed squared at me.
If you can’t have free speech, whats the point ?
I’m never abusive or aggressive in my replies, I just say it how I see it.
Everyone, including those who disagree, have a right to air their opinions.

I felt it was a weak article because the subject matter has been covered extenseively before on the site as part of the forum, and in a wider context in a previous article, so my point was, why make this a main page ‘article’ rather than a forum post unless you’re short on material ?

Haich

Another fantastic and useful post!

Alientek

I am an Apple Pro Audio and Logic Pro certified expert for Sales and support, as well as a long time user.
As a general rule, 95% of the time on all Apple Intel laptops, the USB port closest to the mag-safe power connectior is going to be the best port for audio devices, both for thruput and for power.

Also another way to see more info than System Profiler provides on the USB bus system is if you have Boot Camp installed, running windows go to the system Device Manager. Here you can select to view by type or by the bus. When you view the bus you can see what else is grouped with each port (isight, trackpad etc).

Another great option for most MBP users, instead of using a hub on an existing USB port is to use the Express Card port with a USB card or USB -FW combo card. Plenty of thruput, and if you need more power, alot of the USB Express Cards have a connector for an external power supply, then your laptop does not have to provide the power.

Andrew Ramirez

Hello Im using an Audio 6 DJ audio card on a MBP i7 2.9gz 2012. which usb port is it recommended that i use or express card port do you recommend?

MadeInMachines

For me that’s the opposite of what the article suggests. I have a late 2008 MBP

[quote comment=”33842″]You could also get an express card adapter to get additional 2 or 4 USB ports. I have seen a video Richie Hawtin using one, but could not find any good branded card compatible with macosx, only the cheap ones on ebay, but they do not state compatibility with macosx.[/quote]
Go to http://www.macsale.com they have a really good usb express card, I bought with 4 usb and had been my salvation of using power usb hubs. Is no to expensive but it worth it 100%. I use a old MBP C2D the last that came with the ATI video card. and I use the left port for my sound card, and the right port for my hard drives I have found that One have more power and the other one is have more speed rate, so with the express card I can connect all my midi devices which is awesome! I use all of the 6 ports :D

midifidler

Lightpeak is for data only, power still has to be supplied in same way…

Karlos Santos

[quote comment=”33807″]Sadly for me, this is just a reworking of the article about optimizing your pc (or mac) for audio use.

Having components sharing internal usb hubs is nothing new, in both the pc and mac worlds, and there have been many forums posts regarding this topic.

I appreciate the DJTT team are busy, but this article for me, whilst there is nothing wrong with it, is another in a line of weak articles.

Perhaps I expect too much, given the excellent frequency with which the guys on the site try to push out new material..[/quote]

Im still trying see any point to your post. It probably has less point than my own post here.
If an article on the Blog is technically below your knowledge dont read it and dont comment on it.
If the Editor deems an article to be good enough for the Blog it probably has a target audience.
Its the DJTTs blog for gods sake, not the Pulitzer Prize.
Can we get through one Blog article without people p*ssing about it when there is nothing ‘actually’ wrong with it. Some articles will just be better than others, I dont see any as “weak articles”… live with it.

@ Dj Moonie well done you for telling everyone your thoughts, tho considering I’m having an off topic moan about you, I’m not much better. While this topic obviously doesn’t do for you, there’s 50 plus comments on this subject that appear to be quite relevant to the post. Kind of make’s me think there ARE actually people who live on the same planet as you, who actually have different tastes. OBVIOUSLY this subject has been touched on before else where on other forums, that doesn’t mean every techtools reader has seen them. Personally I knew most of detail’s in this artical, over the past two years there’s been a hand full off post’s that I didn’t learn anything from, maybe I should of had a moan on those like you did on this post. No one can deny that Techtools post’s maintain a high level of information all wrapped up in well written quality, but It’s subjective to personal taste and opinion whether the content is interesting or not!

ajkdfsa

There’s an easier way to know which one is the “good usb” in the upper left corner of your screen there’s a small black apple, click on it and in that menu there’s an option called “About this mac”… then click on “More info” and you’ll see a window with a list at the left, click on USB and a complete list of USB ports will appear (even internal ports) some of them are labeled as “USB Bus” while others as “USB High-Speed Bus”…

MadeInMachines

How does this help you identify which usb port to use as I can’t see a way to know which port is the high-speed bus on the laptop

I recently upgraded to a Core2Duo series Macbook, and while I’d heard whispers about USB port power in general I had no idea they were split on the same machine! I use a BCD3000 – and have used it in both ports I’ll be sure to use it in the better of the two ports from now on. Good article.

Dj Jamie D

Would the port have a similar effect on a midi controller I.E. Novation 25sl? I have slight latency between when I press the play button, and when Traktor actually playes the song.

USB 3.0 is going to spell the end for consumer use of firewire… but I wouldnt expect it too soon on mac, or to be used on many prosumer level soundcards for some time

PC Troll

What a surprise! by reading some other articles here, I came with the impression macs were perfect…….

Paddy

mbp 13″ mid 2009.

audio kontrol 1 or audio8 + ap40, never had an issue with either port even tho apc is a data hog (i had to turn up my latency on my old acer to get real time lights, not static, to work and dont trash my audio)

it’s a problem with older chipsets wich i think got fixed in later mb models, anyway, this issue is still present on pcs so i find the “Get a PC” argument totally invalid.

The only secret is keeping a healthy system (this goes for everyone) and turning off wifi and bluetooth, even tho i have no problems with those guys on.

i run traktor at 2,5ms just to have some headroom btw

buckner

Can you explain the how to some more? For a mac mini?

atticus18244fsas

So it better to plug my Soundcard or Hercules Steel Controller into the “front” port of my June 09 (before i5/i7) Macbook Pro?

. . .pardon the PC fanboy in me but these computers which are marketed as having higher quality components and greater care in design are failing agaiiiinn?

Geez i’ll stick with the platform that doesn’t kill off tech whenever the company feels like it (I’m looking at you FireWire / PowerPC users), supports more than 1 (or 2) chipsets, and doesn’t lock me out of advanced settings (without resorting to using the console!).

But think on the bright side Apple-fans, at least you don’t lose connectivity by touching your MBP the wrong way, right??

//endrant

ogama8

Whatever happened to USB 3.0? Wouldn’t that solve the problem?

Vinicius Hoffmann

Why people still insists in using USB for audio cards? I don’t understand it…
USB 2.0 is a bottleneck connection right now, for external HD (Sata), audio cards, video players with high quality videos (blueray)

The reason I don’t play live is that I don’t have a macbook with a firewire entrance to plug my wished M-Audio Profire 610… I only throw house parties with my Dell Vostro 1310 and Numark DJIO… the sound is shit and I have some delay and occasionally dropouts.

@Lorenzo: it looks like you have power (not data troughput) issues there. If so, it is not contradicting this article but confirming one of the comments above that faster ports are not USB-power-spec correct.[quote post=”6953″]How dare you compare Ultralite to A4DJ.[/quote]Heh, this was my post.

Dj Lorenzo

I have this issue with my brand new mac and Serato SL3. No problem with SL1, but with SL 3, Serato sometimes stop and come back on simple player mode. I tested with the 2 usb ports, and the closest to the screen seems to be the best (in contradiction with this article). I have to shut down AirPort, and turn off the keyboard’s light… For the moment, it’s the only way i found to stop dropouts. But believe me, i’m really disappointed with Apple on this point. Cheap usb ports on a Macbook pro is something i could not believe… But it’s an evidence now.

5aint

Great article Phil, thanks.

The mac port issue is a a very annoying one, the issues also continue into the 17s, so yes Sainte there are differences and once again it is model dependant.. On my Penryn 17 the two ports on the left hand side are the optimum and the only ones CDJs can be linked to whist a powered hub for all other controllers is linked to the right hand side. The i7 however appears the have the top 2 ports as optimum with the lowest the poorest, I deduce this as if I plug ( top to bottom ) anything other than CDJ, CDJ, HUB then the aggregate fails to see one Pioneer – CDJs do not like being shared devices or on a hub at all.

Euphoric F

Good to know!

Thank you.

mmz

You could also get an express card adapter to get additional 2 or 4 USB ports. I have seen a video Richie Hawtin using one, but could not find any good branded card compatible with macosx, only the cheap ones on ebay, but they do not state compatibility with macosx.

Indeed, how dare you compare the two. The Ultralite is a superior interface, although the A4DJ may be more suited to readers of this site.

Uno

I’ve never had any problems with using the back port for my audio both with my Ableton soundcard and Serato SL1.

I did have a problem that my Macbook wouldn’t recognise my TriggerFinger unless it was going through my hub, even if the hub had no power? So for live shows when I just use my keyboard and TF, I’d have to plug in my hub anyway???????

Very odd but as long as everything works and sounds good, I’m not that bothered. Still will try swapping my USB ports and see what difference it makes.

Thanks DJTT!

Anonymous

Seriously. Just get a firewire soundcard. USB is good for controllers.

Tommy

Shame on those lasy ingenieur n mr Jobs. It was possible to integrate intrernal usb hub for camera, bloutooth, keybord n others. In this way it looks like mbp n mb was made by drunken electic.

Something to note: This is a completely separate can of worms from POWER requirements on USB ports. In fact, with my MBP (mid 2007 C2D) and i assume other models as well, its the RIGHT side port that supplies more power than the left.
–
So this is doubly silly on Apple’s part because it means that even though your LEFT USB port provides more bandwidth, the RIGHT side USB is the only one that supplies the proper spec’ed amount of power. The left USB port does not provide the USB 2.0 specified amount of power, and I’ve had multiple problems in the past with bus-powered USB harddrives only working on my right side USB port… kind of silly for a $2500 laptop.

Marcos

This is one of those “if it affects you” articles. i.e. If you’ve had USB audio problems, try switching ports. But if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it amirite? Very interesting. i would have never thought the different ports were actually… well… different, performance wise. good thing to keep in mind.

Anonymous

my laptop (pc) (that i built has 7 usb hubs)… too bad for you poor mac users once again..

[quote comment=”33815″][quote comment=”33814″]What I want to know is if it is the same with the 17″ Macbook Pro which has 3 USB ports? I plan on buying one at the end of the month.[/quote]

Same here, I bought a 17 inch macbook pro (late 2009) because it has 3 usb ports which one should i use for my audio 8 and 2 Kontrol X1’s??[/quote]
I have one too. Why not test it for yourself…. All you need is and external UDSB HDD and Xbench (Free) and run it on the disc speeds and see the difference in read and write speeds….

If I have a MBP with one fast and one not so fast USB port then I should plug my Audio 4 DJ into the the fast port and my VCI-100 into the not so fast port.?.

My guess is plugging everything into a powered USB hub that is then plugged into the fast port may cause other issues… latency???

USB 3.0

I’m not a huge computer geek but won’t usb 3.0 solve all these issues. They are as fast as firewire and offer more power (not positive about the power boost but I think it is correct).

i’m waiting until usb 3.0 hits Laptop, we get touch screens before my next upgrade, and quad cores. USB 3.0 will be backwards compatible just like 2.0 was so even if hardware is not up to speed yet we will still be able to use the old gear on the new USB 3.0

It will not be too much longer

Oh yeah aren’t there work around for the Mac usb port issue?

Jes.C

this is very odd…I have a black macbook C2D. I use the usb closes to the screen for my audio 8 and the other port for my vci, ived never had problems, but I will have to try to see if I can flip the ports and see if i can lower my latency

Joey

[quote comment=”33814″]What I want to know is if it is the same with the 17″ Macbook Pro which has 3 USB ports? I plan on buying one at the end of the month.[/quote]

Same here, I bought a 17 inch macbook pro (late 2009) because it has 3 usb ports which one should i use for my audio 8 and 2 Kontrol X1’s??

Sainte

What I want to know is if it is the same with the 17″ Macbook Pro which has 3 USB ports? I plan on buying one at the end of the month.

[quote post=”6953″]How dare you compare Ultralite to A4DJ.
BTW, what is the rumour that Firewire might die-off soon? It started when Apple did not integrate FW port on some macs.[/quote]
Well actually apple left out firewire because those models we meant for low-tech consumers who will never use a firewire port so instead gave them a extra usb. And Yes FIrewire is the way to go….and you have more usb ports for you controllers…like me!

ahh, this would explain a problem i come across once and a while when i do my live Ustream shows.. I use 2x EKS OTUS, 1x bcd3000, audio 8 soundcard and a external harddrive… all devices are hooked up to a powered usb hub except for the soundcard which plugs directly into the macbook..

the problem is sometimes when i turn on my isight camera for a live show i get a crackling noise from my speakers. it doesnt happen that often but ive always found that disconnecting everything and reconnecting everything solves the problem. I must be unintentionally swapping my usb ports..

Im gonna go experiment with this now and see if i can recreate the problem so i know what to avoid.. everything works fine except for that issue once and a while…

This issue with macbooks is real but you could use a powered hub with the right usb and that’s it!

;)

…

Antonio

Ahh yes… I always preach this to my buddies lol.

Sjaak

Heard the new USB is comming so could be the death of firewire..

Anonymous

[quote comment=”33789″]This makes me glad that I have a firewire soundcard lol.[/quote]word
[quote comment=”33794″]Just get a firewire card and stop having to worry about problems with USB – way less dropouts and glitches from my Ultralite than my old Audio 4 DJ.[/quote]How dare you compare Ultralite to A4DJ.

BTW, what is the rumour that Firewire might die-off soon? It started when Apple did not integrate FW port on some macs.

Sjaak

So if you have no problems always set your latency as low als possible in traktor pro for the best sound quality?

This makes me glad that I have a firewire soundcard lol.
However, this is good to know, I have a core duo mbp from 2008 and I’ve been using the left usb port for my vci and the right for my midi fighter, looks like I just guessed right? :p
Anyway, another good article from you, thanks Phil.

This is seriously still an issue? I remember hearing about this a couple of years ago when I bought my MBP in mid-2007. While I haven’t had any audio issues myself, I remember reading about it fairly often back then. I haven;t heard much since and figured that the problem had been fixed in the newer models, but I see that is not the case.