Just wondering where the condemnation is from the far right Christian crowd over this right wing religious terrorism in Norway. You would think that if Christianity were a religion concerned with peace, that more moderate Christians would feel it was their duty to speak out when someone of their faith commits such an atrocity.

I guess we can conclude that, because we've yet to hear Christians such as Craig condemn the unspeakable terrorism in Norway, that he and others who frequent this site support it.

I emailed columnist James Delingpole the following note after listening to him on the Arlene Bynon talk radio program 640 AM, Toronto area.

James, you are quite right about the left pinning the Oslo massacre on the right. And they call him a Christian. Please. The coward is an extremist nutbar who desires to be a Crusader, a Knight of the Knights Templar. Why? Because of multiculturalism and he hates Muslims? So he kills his own people, although politically different, because they, the Labour Party are the "enablers" as Dr Swier has stated. That's a brilliant strategy to show the world how much you hate other cultures. Indeed, terrorism of soft targets gets the message out. He has received world wide fame.

His sickness isn't your everyday wacko. From what I have heard this has taken many years of planning.

Maybe the Norwegians stop being so soft. They were in WWII. The Nazis basically walked in for the resources and iron. Churchill tried his best. Soft in the sense that the terrorist will get out in less than the maximum penitentiary time of 21 years. But the left is already talking about banning guns as if that will stop sociopaths.

Oslo: An attack on the enablers of multiculturalism? — Dr. Rich Swier

First and foremost my thoughts and prayers go out to the families of those who were killed by 32-year-old Anders Behring Breivik in Oslo, Norway. Over the weekend I have been reflecting on why anyone would want to harm another innocent person, especially vulnerable children at an island retreat.

The answer may be something we all need to think seriously about.

I have written numerous columns warning about the negative effects multiculturalism has imposed upon America's core values and beliefs. The great strength of America has been in the ability of many peoples to assimilate and embrace our culture and beliefs. Hence the uniquely American motto E Pluribus Unum, out of many one. As J. Hector St. John de Crèvecoeur, in Letters from an American Farmer, 1782, wrote, "Here [in America] individuals of all nations are melted into a new race of men, whose labours and posterity will one day cause great changes in the world." Multiculturalism is the antithesis of this ideal.

So is what happened in Oslo a result of multiculturalism and those who enable it?

"So that Breivik would have attacked Norway’s liberal Prime Minister and his party is horrifying – but it is therefore not terribly surprising: these are the politicians who, in the name of civil rights and equality, have made most of the [multicultural] concessions. . . Such gestures of accommodation are, to be sure, well-meant. . . But they do not breed goodwill; rather, the result is that Europeans feel increasingly – and understandably – threatened." [My emphasis]

Abigale observes, "Breivik has simply taken a different approach: he attacked what he sees as the enablers — frustrated, perhaps, by a failure to vote them out of power. It is a new form of protest, and he is the first to use it. But I fear that, unless Europe begins demanding that its Muslim population live according to its Enlightenment traditions and the values of democracy, he will not be the last." [My emphasis]

Daniel Greenfield, in his column "Healing Norway", states, "European liberals often boast of keeping a tighter lid on extremism than America, with tighter curbs on free speech, but the current tragedy is yet another reminder that this lid is counterproductive. Suppressing a legitimate opposition only leads to the rise of an illegitimate opposition. Shutting down ideas you don't like brings back those same ideas, only heavily armed." [My emphasis]
Daniel points out, "An open society is a safety valve."

"The outbursts of political violence in Norway and Sweden - countries which have become notorious for suppressing right of center free speech should be a sign that change is necessary. The authorities may be tempted to once again reach for the club, but they might consider trying the bullhorn of free speech instead." says Daniel.
Daniel points out, "The very act of suppressing ideas is extremist. And it leads to oppositional extremism."

Here in America we have the First Amendment to our Constitution. Europe has no such standard against which freedom of speech is measured. Europe has hate speech laws which tend to suppress freedom of speech. According to Daniel, "[T]he very real dangers of marginalizing a political opposition and a point of view to the extent that they [the opposition] have nowhere to go but underground."

Daniel proposes, "Healing a country begins with healing its fractures. And the only way to begin the healing is to open a dialogue on freedom of speech."

I must agree. Marginalizing the opposition as the left does leads to acts of violence. When one is cornered with no chance of escape, he strikes out. Let this lesson be learned and learned well. The U.S. Supreme Court recently ruled that even hurtful speech is free speech.

As Volaire once said, "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

James Delingpole is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything. He is the author of numerous fantastically entertaining books including 365 Ways to Drive a Liberal Crazy, Welcome To Obamaland: I've Seen Your Future And It Doesn't Work, How To Be Right, and the Coward series of WWII adventure novels.

Just wondering where the condemnation is from the far right Christian crowd over this right wing religious terrorism in Norway. You would think that if Christianity were a religion concerned with peace, that more moderate Christians would feel it was their duty to speak out when someone of their faith commits such an atrocity.

I guess we can conclude that, because we've yet to hear Christians such as Craig condemn the unspeakable terrorism in Norway, that he and others who frequent this site support it.

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

Indeed that is well started and - if that doesn't make the point perfectly then - what can?

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

Indeed that is well started and - if that doesn't make the point perfectly then - what can?

With a posted 'passion' - you're critical of Craig, making unwarranted accusations - did you think for a moment - Craig may be busy these days? Perhaps he hasn't even visited these forums since this heinous crime? Of course...you have your mind made up already...

Oh and where's your condemnation of Islamists?

Here are a few good truth quotes for you

"God is the Supreme Truth. So Supreme Truth cannot be Hebrew truth, Christian truth, Hindu truth. Truth is truth. Just like gold. Because gold is found in America, nobody says, "It is American gold." It is gold. So similarly, God is one. ...He is for Hebrew, He is for Hindu, He is for Muslim, He is for everyone. Simply we have to know what is God. So if you try to understand through Hebrew religion, that's all right. But if you come to know what is God, that is all right. Otherwise useless. If you cannot understand what is God, then Hebrew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these different names, they are useless. And if you understand God, then whatever method it is, it is all good." [Bhaktivedanta Swami, May 14, 1975]

How to know if one understands God? If the method is good then we shall see the four universal principles of religion develop in an individual namely: Truthfulness, Mercy, Cleanliness, and Austerity.

I think Mercy is VERY important. If we cannot be merciful to other living beings then what can be said of our so-called spiritual understanding!?

Of course one may also to a large degree cultivate these principles outside of religion as well...it's just not common.

"God and His truths know neither boundaries nor nationalities. Narrow sectarianism and ethnocentrism are only pitfalls on the path to liberation. God is neither Christian nor Jew, neither Muslim nor Buddhist nor Hindu—He is beyond all such designations."

[...]

"We are many, and God is one. So if we accept one God, then where is the chance of different religious system?

God is on...e. God is neither Christian nor Hindu or Muslim or... No. God is God. Just like gold. Gold is gold.

Either in the Hindu community, or Muslim community, gold is gold.

Because gold is there in some Hindu community, nobody says "Hindu gold." Does anybody say, "It is Hindu gold" or "It is Christian gold"? No. Gold is gold.

Similarly, God is one. There is no "Hindu God" or "Muslim God" or "Christian God." This is mistake.

"We believe God in this way...," that is nonsense. No. God is one, and you have to see what is the characteristic of God.

Just like when it is gold, everyone wants to see whether it is actually gold or imitation gold. That we have to see.

There cannot be Hindu gold, Muslim gold, Christian gold. No. Simply you have to see whether it is actually gold, acceptable.

That should be the subject matter of theology, to know actually what is God and to understand what is our relationship with God." [Bhaktivedanta Swami]

Do you have a problem with such foolish designations - or are you an atheist?

Anyone who really knows what God is all about would NEVER act like that freak [who acted exactly like an Islamist] - there is no doubt that people on earth need to get a clue and SOON.

Just wondering where the condemnation is from the far right Christian crowd over this right wing religious terrorism in Norway. You would think that if Christianity were a religion concerned with peace, that more moderate Christians would feel it was their duty to speak out when someone of their faith commits such an atrocity.

I guess we can conclude that, because we've yet to hear Christians such as Craig condemn the unspeakable terrorism in Norway, that he and others who frequent this site support it.

Every 16 years a Christian commits terrorism.

And this guy wasn't even a Christian. He hadn't been to Church in 15 years!!!

The strange thing is that the people who seem to be happiest about this massacre are leftists like Sandwich Boy. They think it is great that 90 people died because it gives them an opportunity to show up at forums like these and bash Christians.

Last edited by Craig on Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

I'm pretty sure everyone here including myself have condemned these actions. And it is clear that western nations are dealing with this in an appropriate manner. The same can't be said for Islamic nations when people are gunned down inside Churches.

Keep cheering for the enemy buddy. Three cheers for Islamic progressive values!!!

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

I'm pretty sure everyone here including myself have condemned these actions. And it is clear that western nations are dealing with this in an appropriate manner. The same can't be said for Islamic nations when people are gunned down inside Churches.

Keep cheering for the enemy buddy. Three cheers for Islamic progressive values!!!

Isn't it just like that? People like Sandwich Fan are clueless about facts and when they are made aware of them - they are in deep denial about these facts. I guess with some people there's nothing that can be said...

Glad to see you here Craig!! :-)

I would add that there is NO so-called Christians looking to subjugate the world...

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

Indeed that is well started and - if that doesn't make the point perfectly then - what can?

And I've yet to hear your condemnation of it too! You've been too busy taking pleasure in the tragedy and bashing Christians to realize that nowhere on these forums have you expressed your condemnation. What a self absorbed hypocrite you are!

What astounds and disgusts me is that it took the police so long to do anything. Evidently they walk around the streets unarmed, too. This is the left for you.

Unarmed law enforcement? Ouch! I wouldn't want to live there. I pity their law enforcement Officers thus at risk!

There is a serious problem with socialist leaning systems - favoring the victimizer over the victim - this happens all the time - even in Canada!

For instance - the mere notion that the system could/would release violent offenders such as killers, rapists and molesters back into the community - what is that?

It boggles my mind that someone like Vince Li might be riding a greyhound again one day. How often does one enter the public sphere unbenounced of these dangers...potentially 'rubbing elbows' with such sociopaths who have been re-released into the community?

In Norway they have that 21 year business. Then they have that faint hope business but really - the potential is that one day that demoniac individual could be walking the streets again!

It seems that somehow the state has forgotten that there are some crimes that there is no redemption for in the eyes of society. These kind of individuals are then incarcerated for indeterminate periods - with the potential of release!

The state has a responsibility to protect it's citizens - there is no abrogating this responsibility - without negative consequences for the society.

Generally in a proper state a CONFIRMED murderer is to be executed. The state has that responsibility. From the ancient Vedic perspective this is actually a mercy for the murderer.

"In Manu-sanghita, the law book for mankind, it is supported that a murderer should be condemned to death so that in his next life he will not have to suffer for the great sin he has committed. Therefore, the king's punishment of hanging a murderer is actually beneficial." [A.C. Bhaktivedanta]

The state does no wrong in 'hanging' a CONFIRMED murderer - the state is not murdering murderers - that is irrational thinking - as we find in leftists.

If the murderer does not pay for their crime in this life - then it will follow them into the next. If one can see how karma and transmigration work - then this is certainly important to society.

If a murderer is not executed in this life then karma will certainly arrange for yet another round of nasty circumstances for the souls thus implicated - ultimately - the murderer will have to pay for their crime. Actually Biblical tradition doesn't much deviate from this perspective either...

Why do western socialists have this displaced pity for those who violate society's most serious of laws? Why do they arrange for a 'system' that coddles the offenders? Is it to save cash in prisons? We all know that it must cost a fortune to lock a demoniac individual up for a decade or more....so let them out? Huh? Some of them should not be incarcerated in the first place.

It can be said that certain crimes are not worthy of death - like rape and molestation - they are the ones to be in prison for life...not murderers. What are the real costs to society if these categories of criminal are not thus incarcerated for life? Who cares about the dollar cost of incarceration in light of that!

I don't go for that 1st 2nd and 3rd degree crap either. If one is criminally responsible for a homicide of another individual [in the course of any crime whatsoever] that individual is eligible for capital punishment.

I expect to be 'widely' criticized by leftists for my comments. Oh well. Maybe they one day want to ride a dark bus with someone like Anders Breivik or Mark Twitchell or Vince Li or another and another and another and another...ad nauseum!

Yes us conservatives are so harsh aren't we! The federal government wants a three strikes legislation for violent offenders...I wouldn't be so understanding!! Three opportunities to engage in criminal violence is too much. Two at most? Of course a proper application of 'time and circumstances' are important to the state's evaluations of such matters.

Last edited by don muntean on Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:27 am; edited 1 time in total

Being "nice" isn't good enough. If you want me to accept your religion then YOU need to weed about the extremists in your midst. I want the Muslims who call for the death of Jews to be marginalized by their fellow MUSLIMS. I should not have to do the dirty work. I should not have to be the one posting these posts in forums to raise awareness. If Muslims passively accept the presence of extremists then I can conclude nothing less than their approval of it.

Indeed that is well started and - if that doesn't make the point perfectly then - what can?

With a posted 'passion' - you're critical of Craig, making unwarranted accusations - did you think for a moment - Craig may be busy these days? Perhaps he hasn't even visited these forums since this heinous crime? Of course...you have your mind made up already...

Oh and where's your condemnation of Islamists?

Here are a few good truth quotes for you

"God is the Supreme Truth. So Supreme Truth cannot be Hebrew truth, Christian truth, Hindu truth. Truth is truth. Just like gold. Because gold is found in America, nobody says, "It is American gold." It is gold. So similarly, God is one. ...He is for Hebrew, He is for Hindu, He is for Muslim, He is for everyone. Simply we have to know what is God. So if you try to understand through Hebrew religion, that's all right. But if you come to know what is God, that is all right. Otherwise useless. If you cannot understand what is God, then Hebrew, Hindu, Muslim, Christian, these different names, they are useless. And if you understand God, then whatever method it is, it is all good." [Bhaktivedanta Swami, May 14, 1975]

How to know if one understands God? If the method is good then we shall see the four universal principles of religion develop in an individual namely: Truthfulness, Mercy, Cleanliness, and Austerity.

I think Mercy is VERY important. If we cannot be merciful to other living beings then what can be said of our so-called spiritual understanding!?

Of course one may also to a large degree cultivate these principles outside of religion as well...it's just not common.

"God and His truths know neither boundaries nor nationalities. Narrow sectarianism and ethnocentrism are only pitfalls on the path to liberation. God is neither Christian nor Jew, neither Muslim nor Buddhist nor Hindu—He is beyond all such designations."

[...]

"We are many, and God is one. So if we accept one God, then where is the chance of different religious system?

God is on...e. God is neither Christian nor Hindu or Muslim or... No. God is God. Just like gold. Gold is gold.

Either in the Hindu community, or Muslim community, gold is gold.

Because gold is there in some Hindu community, nobody says "Hindu gold." Does anybody say, "It is Hindu gold" or "It is Christian gold"? No. Gold is gold.

Similarly, God is one. There is no "Hindu God" or "Muslim God" or "Christian God." This is mistake.

"We believe God in this way...," that is nonsense. No. God is one, and you have to see what is the characteristic of God.

Just like when it is gold, everyone wants to see whether it is actually gold or imitation gold. That we have to see.

There cannot be Hindu gold, Muslim gold, Christian gold. No. Simply you have to see whether it is actually gold, acceptable.

That should be the subject matter of theology, to know actually what is God and to understand what is our relationship with God." [Bhaktivedanta Swami]

Do you have a problem with such foolish designations - or are you an atheist?

Anyone who really knows what God is all about would NEVER act like that freak [who acted exactly like an Islamist] - there is no doubt that people on earth need to get a clue and SOON.

Here is a good point in my posting:

"God and His truths know neither boundaries nor nationalities. Narrow sectarianism and ethnocentrism are only pitfalls on the path to liberation. God is neither Christian nor Jew, neither Muslim nor Buddhist nor Hindu—He is beyond all such designations."

So 'narrow sectarianism and ethnocentrism are only pitfalls' - in more than a quest for salvation/liberation!

From wikipedia:

"Sectarianism, according to one definition, is bigotry, discrimination or hatred arising from attaching importance to perceived differences between subdivisions within a group..."

"Ethnocentrism is the tendency to believe that one's ethnic or cultural group is centrally important, and that all other groups are measured in relation to one's own. The ethnocentric individual will judge other groups relative to his or her own particular ethnic group or culture, especially with concern to language, behavior, customs, and religion."

This sectarian issue dogs the groups that make up our societies - to the point of inner conflict and resultant factionalism - not good when we add ethnocentrism to the mix.

Ethnocentrism is an especially bad quality for our 'collective' experiences.

Overcoming this tendency is central to settling most of the world's issues.

If we continue to see religious groups and political party's cultivating ethnocentrism and sectarianism then there will never be regional/global balance and without that - in the long term from a global [and regional] perspective - there is nothing but high cost strife ahead - no economy as we know it today - global [and thus regional] progress will stop!

God knows that we're already fighting a global economic crisis and this sectarianism and ethnocentrism is increasing and - we're not seeing enough efforts in some groups to reconstruct their ideological environments that tend to encourage this quality/tendency within their members.

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