A lot of what Frank did to push the envelope must be looked at in context, when Freak Out was released it was blasphemy for that time, if my parents would have found that record in my room it would have been promptly disposed of (and they were hip as parents went in the 60’s).

The same as future release’s within the time frame they were released, Frank always pushed the social norms and can be credited with contributing to many of them being disarmed.

I think he wasn't ahead of his time, look at the (commercial) music of the 80's and the (commercial) music of today. Do you see any difference in the music of Michael Jackson or Bon Jovi and the music of Justin Bieber or One Direction? Has music evolved? No. People hear the same product as always.

Dude what the hell, the only thing those musicians have in common is they were/are commercially viable, musically they are different. If you don't like that music that's fine, say that, but if you think they are the same you may want to have your ears checked...

Sorry, I explained it very badly. I don't think he was ahead of his time. If he didn't belong to that time, why would he belong to the music of "X" years later? For example, Weasels "doesn't fit in its time" (1970). But why would it fit in the future?

_________________Oh lady look up in timeOh lady look out of loveAnd you should have us allOh you should have us fall.

Sorry, I explained it very badly. I don't think he was ahead of his time. If he didn't belong to that time, why would he belong to the music of "X" years later? For example, Weasels "doesn't fit in its time" (1970). But why would it fit in the future?

Ahhhh...Got it, sorry about that...what I wrote kinda sounded rude when I re-read it...

"Frank Zappa is an anachronism that makes the ugliest music on the face of the planet." - Frank Zappa as imagined by the editor of some famous rock and roll magazine.

Jann Wenner? Whoever it was probably never made it to Blessed Relief.

Opus131 wrote:

I think there's a fine line in pointing out that reality is filled with many absurdities and that things aren't as peachy or as perfect as we are led to believe, to trying to push the notion that reality is NOTHING but an absurdity, which is going to the opposite extreme. For instance, there's a lot of filth going on in human sexuality but there's also a lot of beauty and if there is prudery on one side, there is certainly perversity on the other. You can't just say that because perversity exists human nature is nothing but perversity, which sometimes seems to be the general idea.

Yet it's much more difficult and takes a lot more work for humans to love each than to hate each other.

Opus131 wrote:

But Zappa was different. I don't think he ever crossed that line but he could have and he certainly was aware of how far he could have gone had he wanted to.

He called Live Aid the biggest cocaine money laundering scheme of all time. That's balls.

My take: in the 60s Zappa was all provocative, fuck-off, irreverent in his vibes, but he also did seem to be a bit more of an idealistic kind of a guy, as you could tell from the benign melodic climate in the music he recorded during the Uncle/Rats/Weeny epoch. He was a capable composer that had simply got into a lot of trouble with the establishment, and so of course he got very anti-estab in his attitude.

Later on, starting from Over-Nite era onwards, he transitioned more into a kind of a dirty old man, as you can tell from the more overt softcore porn esque lyrics in several songs as well as the creepy way he uses his lowered voice in some songs, esp. Zoot Allures period (it even evokes me of Al Bundy going: "Let's rock!" in some "Married with Children" episodes). By late 1970s he'd emerged from a decade of suffering starting with a horrendous stage attack and culminating in a brutal legal battle with Warner Bros, to name but two of the most traumatic events and as a result was more bitter than ever. This even reflects in his art music: notice the sombre tones and almost funereal feel of "Sinister Footwear II" next to the pastoralness of the chamber music interlude in "Little House".

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Ed pinpointed the start of strong erotic lyrics at Over-Nite Sensation, and Dinah-Moe is on there. But he started it earlier with 200 Motels, which was years in the making, so I suppose the gist was always there.

My take: in the 60s Zappa was all provocative, fuck-off, irreverent in his vibes, but he also did seem to be a bit more of an idealistic kind of a guy, as you could tell from the benign melodic climate in the music he recorded during the Uncle/Rats/Weeny epoch. He was a capable composer that had simply got into a lot of trouble with the establishment, and so of course he got very anti-estab in his attitude.

Later on, starting from Over-Nite era onwards, he transitioned more into a kind of a dirty old man, as you can tell from the more overt softcore porn esque lyrics in several songs as well as the creepy way he uses his lowered voice in some songs, esp. Zoot Allures period (it even evokes me of Al Bundy going: "Let's rock!" in some "Married with Children" episodes). By late 1970s he'd emerged from a decade of suffering starting with a horrendous stage attack and culminating in a brutal legal battle with Warner Bros, to name but two of the most traumatic events and as a result was more bitter than ever. This even reflects in his art music: notice the sombre tones and almost funereal feel of "Sinister Footwear II" next to the pastoralness of the chamber music interlude in "Little House".

Flo & Eddie period, I feel FZ was branching out towards that area of his lyrics-writing, after having had to sideline such ambitions in favour of more of a political commentary. Plus the fact that FZ was still away from his stage fall means we still had FZ with his younger voice and thus we had a bit of a young rebellious lad engaging himself with bawdy, slapstick humour, especially in the company of a pair of lead singers that were "funny as hell" (what Jeff Simmons appears to be saying in the recent "Another Mothers" Chrome Dreams DVD according to Idiot Bastard's review).

On Over-Nite Sensation, his voice had lowered, his attitude more morose and it's just himself doing the lead vocals basically, hence the impression that a dirty old man is appearing and supplanting the exuberant horny young lad pre-Dec 71.

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

Who is online

You cannot post new topics in this forumYou cannot reply to topics in this forumYou cannot edit your posts in this forumYou cannot delete your posts in this forumYou cannot post attachments in this forum