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Re: Who was Melchizedek?

Originally Posted by Fenris

He was a "priest of Midian". Not God.

I didn't think he was I was just using him as an example because Butch5 asked what priesthood Melchizedek was part of.

blessings to you

My soul does GLORIFY the LORD, my spirit REJOICES in GOD MY SAVIOUR------"To be entirely safe from the devils snares the man of God must be completely obedient to the Word of the Lord. The driver on the highway is safe, not when he reads the signs but when he obeys them."A.W.Tozer

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

Originally Posted by Oregongrown

Who or what is Midian?

Midian was a people. Bible is not clear exactly where they lived.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

The thing that comes to my mind is how many times in scripture it is said "like the Son of God":

Dan 3:25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

that's 2 places I've found it in the Word. Maybe there are more. Who else but God appear in a firey furnace, who else could, an angel? An angel is not "like the Son of God" are they?

Originally Posted by markedward

Melchizedek was Melchizedek.

The things attributed to him in Hebrews are terribly misunderstood, if anyone is interpreting it to mean that he was Jesus or God.

Jesus is a priest after the order of Melchizedek
Jesus follows the order of Melchizedek's 'priesthood'. That doesn't make Melchizedek Jesus.

King of Salem, priest of the Most High God, met Abraham
The author of Hebrews has no problem setting down who Melchizedek was as a historical figure. He never identifies Melchizedek as being Jesus or God.

He is without father or mother or genealogyContext. The author is talking about Melchizedek's priesthood. The author is setting about to show why Jesus' priesthood is superior to the Levitical priesthood. As a Levitical priest, who your father and mother were, and what genealogy you came from, absolutely mattered to your qualifications as a priest. You had to be a Levite, and some in particular had to be sons of Aaron.

The author is showing that Melchizedek has no father or mother or genealogy as a priest. The 'order of Melchizedek's' priesthood doesn't require any qualifications based on who Melchizedek's father or mother were, or what his genealogy was. He simply was a priest. The author is not saying that Melchizedek is Jesus or God. He's showing that Jesus needed no genealogical qualifications to be a 'priest after the order of Melchizedek'.

Having neither beginning of days nor end of lifeContext. The author is talking about Melchizedek's priesthood. The author is setting about to show why Jesus' priesthood is superior to the Levitical priesthood. The Levitical priesthood had a specific establishment ('beginning of days') in the wilderness during the exodus. The Levitical priest end their tenure at death ('end of life'). Their priesthood is limited to the span of their lives.

The author is showing that Melchizedek's priesthood had no specific establishment, nor does it have any kind of end. The author is not saying that Melchizedek is Jesus or God. He's showing that Jesus is a 'priest forever', because nothing specific will bring his priesthood to an end.

But resembling the Son of God he continues a priest forever
The author is not saying that Melchizedek is Jesus. He is saying that Melchizedek is like Jesus, because he was a 'priest forever'. It doesn't make any sense to say that Melchizedek 'resembles' Jesus if he is Jesus. But Melchizedek isn't Jesus. He is a shadow of Jesus; that's the whole point of the book of Hebrews. The author sets out to show the old things that foreshadow Jesus.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

The thing that comes to my mind is how many times in scripture it is said "like the Son of God":

Dan 3:25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

You're all over the place here. What does this have to do with Malkitzedek?

who else could, an angel?

verse 28: Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants!

So yeah, an angel.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

The thing that comes to my mind is how many times in scripture it is said "like the Son of God":

Dan 3:25 "Look!" he answered, "I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire; and they are not hurt, and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God."

that's 2 places I've found it in the Word. Maybe there are more. Who else but God appear in a firey furnace, who else could, an angel? An angel is not "like the Son of God" are they?

Who is the one speaking there in Daniel 3.25? It is a Christian? Is it a Jew?

It is Nebuchadnezzar, a polytheist and a Babylonian.

Literally translated, Nebuchadnezzar was exclaiming 'the form of the fourth is as a son of the gods!' Nebuchadnezzar did not have a sudden prophetic flash in which he became, not just a monotheist, but a Christian in particular. Nebuchadnezzar was seeing a heavenly angel sent by God to protect the three Jews, and from Nebuchadnezzar's polytheistic Babylonian perspective, he thought he was looking at a demi-god.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

Originally Posted by markedward

No. But I don't see how is this relevant to what Scripture says about it?

What I was getting at was to see if there was any evidence of this priestly order anywhere. If seems I have located an extra Biblical mention of him as being a king in the city of Salem (which is just what he Scriptures say). It is related that he was the first priest of God. Athenagoras relates this in his history of the kings after the flood. This seems to support what you said about Melchizedek not being Jesus.

I couldn't say, since Scripture doesn't explain. It simply say that Melchizedek was a 'priest forever', and that he resembles the Son of God, and that Jesus is a priest after his order.

I understand this differently, I understand that Christ is the priest forever and that His priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek's priesthood, not that Melchizedek's priesthood is an everlasting Priesthood.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

Nebuchadnezzar was seeing a heavenly angel sent by God to protect the three Jews, and from Nebuchadnezzar's polytheistic Babylonian perspective, he thought he was looking at a demi-god.

Ahh perspective. Great point.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

Originally Posted by Butch5

What I was getting at was to see if there was any evidence of this priestly order anywhere. If seems I have located an extra Biblical mention of him as being a king in the city of Salem (which is just what he Scriptures say). It is related that he was the first priest of God. Athenagoras relates this in his history of the kings after the flood. This seems to support what you said about Melchizedek not being Jesus.

I haven't heard of this, thanks for sharing. Who was Athenagoras? (His name sounds Greek?)

I understand this differently, I understand that Christ is the priest forever and that His priesthood is after the order of Melchizedek's priesthood, not that Melchizedek's priesthood is an everlasting Priesthood.

'but resembling the Son of God he [Melchizedek] continues a priest forever.' - This is the statement you are referring to?

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

I disagree, I'm not all over the place imo since the same words are used to describe another "character" in the bible and I am simply using that for another example we can relate the scripture to. Another thing I have to add here is that if a person does not believe in the New Testament then they aren't going to agree with much that someone that does, has to say. Agreed? I may be wrong about Who I believe Melchizedek is but I do know Who Jesus Christ is, the Messiah spoken of in the Old Testament.

Originally Posted by Fenris

You're all over the place here. What does this have to do with Malkitzedek?

verse 28: Then Nebuchadnezzar said, “Praise be to the God of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego, who has sent his angel and rescued his servants!

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

I disagree, I'm not all over the place imo since the same words are used to describe another "character" in the bible and I am simply using that for another example we can relate the scripture to.

Is this also Melchizedek?

Another thing I have to add here is that if a person does not believe in the New Testament then they aren't going to agree with much that someone that does, has to say. Agreed?

Dunno. I've pretty much agreed with every post markedward has made here today.

"For a small moment have I forsaken you, and with great mercy will I gather you.With a little wrath did I hide My countenance for a moment from you, and with everlasting kindness will I have compassion on you," said your Redeemer, the Lord."..."For the mountains shall depart and the hills totter, but My kindness shall not depart from you, neither shall the covenant of My peace totter," says the Lord, Who has compassion on you.

Re: Who was Melchizedek?

[QUOTE=markedward;2792569]I haven't heard of this, thanks for sharing. Who was Athenagoras? (His name sounds Greek?)

Athenagorus, is one of the early church writers. He follwed Ignatius at Antioch. It seems bishop Usher relied to some extent on Athenagorus for his work on Bible Chronnolgy.

Here's the quote it can be found in the Ante-Nicene Fathers volume two.

Title : The Early Church Fathers: Ante-Nicene Fathers Volume 2

Chap. XXXI.—The History After the Flood. After the flood was there again a beginning of cities and kings, in the following manner:—The first city was Babylon, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. And their king was called Nebroth [Nimrod]. From these came Asshur, from whom also the Assyrians receive their name. And Nimrod built the cities Nineveh and Rehoboth, and Calah, and Resen, between Nineveh and Calah; and Nineveh became a very great city. And another son of Shem, the son of Noah, by name Mizraim, begat Ludim, and those called Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim, and Pathrusim, and Casluhim, out of whom came Philistin. Of the three sons of Noah, however, and of their death and genealogy, we have given a compendious register in the above-mentioned book. But now we will mention the remaining facts both concerning cities and kings, and the things that happened when there was one speech and one language. Before the dividing of the languages these fore-mentioned cities existed. But when men were about to be dispersed, they took counsel of their own judgment, and not at the instigation of God, to build a city, a tower whose top might reach into heaven, that they might make a glorious name to themselves. Since, therefore, they had dared, contrary to the will of God, to attempt a grand work, God destroyed their city, and overthrew their tower. From that time He confounded the languages of men, giving to each a different dialect. And similarly did the Sibyl speak, when she declared that wrath would come on the world. She says:— “When are fulfilled the threats of the great God, With which He threatened men, when formerly In the Assyrian land they built a tower, And all were of one speech, and wished to rise Even till they climbed unto the starry heaven, Then the Immortal raised a mighty wind And laid upon them strong necessity; For when the wind threw down the mighty tower, Then rose among mankind fierce strife and hate. One speech was changed to many dialects, And earth was filled with divers tribes and kings.” And so on. These things, then, happened in the land of the Chaldaeans. And in the land of Canaan there was a city, by name Haran. And in these days, Pharaoh, who by the Egyptians was also called Nechaoth, was first king of Egypt, and thus the kings followed in succession. And in the land of Shinar, among those called Chaldaeans, 107 the first king was Arioch, and next after him Ellasar, and after him Chedorlaomer, king of Elam, and after him Tidal, king of the nations called Assyrians. And there were five other cities in the territory of Ham, the son of Noah; the first called Sodom, then Gomorrah, Admah, Zeboiim, and Balah, which was also called Zoar. And the names of their kings are these: Bera, king of Sodom; Birsha, king of Gomorrah; Shinab, king of Admah; Shemeber, king of Zeboiim; Bela, king of Zoar, which is also called Kephalac. These served Chedorlaomer, the king of the Assyrians, for twelve years, and in the thirteenth year they revolted from Chedorlaomer; and thus it came to pass at that time that the four Assyrian kings waged war upon the five kings. This was the first commencement of making war on the earth; and they destroyed the giants Karnaim, and the strong nations that were with them in their city, and the Horites of the mountains called Seir, as far as the plain of Paran, which is by the wilderness. And at that time there was a righteous king called Melchizedek, in the city of Salem, which now is Jerusalem. This was the first priest of all priests of the Most High God; and from him the above-named city Hierosolyma was called Jerusalem. And from his time priests were found in all the earth. And after him reigned Abimelech in Gerar; and after him another Abimelech. Then reigned Ephron, surnamed the Hittite. Such are the names of the kings that were in former times. And the rest of the kings of the Assyrians, during an interval of many years, have been passed over in silence unrecorded, all writers narrating the events of our recent days. There were these kings of Assyria: Tiglath-Pileser, and after him Shalmaneser, then Sennacherib; and Adrammelech the Ethiopian, who also reigned over Egypt, was his triarch;—though these things, in comparison with our books, are quite recent.

'but resembling the Son of God he [Melchizedek] continues a priest forever.' - This is the statement you are referring to?