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Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Several problems that we've seen all season, along with an off day by Luck, conspired to turn this into a blowout loss.

I don't know why we try and run kickoffs out of the endzone as much as we do. That has to be by design. And it's crazy IMHO. We really paid for that today, having to start drives with bad field position.

We're trying to be a power running team. I'm not sure if it's desire to see that goal thru or stubbornness.... but at some point we need a reality check about what is and what is not working and adjust the gameplan before kickoff, not at halftime. I'm inclined to agree with those that say we don't have the horses to be a run first team and that we'd actually have more success letting the passing game soften up the other team for the running game.

DHB.... I'm ready to just cut him or sideline him. I was fine keeping him as long as Reggie was here... But now his drops really create a problem because Luck has to account for him in routes and then has to question throwing him the ball. Which leads to a moment of indecision. It probably also has Luck not looking to him as soon as he should because he's worried about throwing to him so passing game gets an extra hitch of indecision in it. And then when he does throw to him and he drops it, it really put pressure on the next play or two because there's no safety blanket like Reggie to throw to next. Or a back you can count on for a couple tough yards. It's a repeat of the previous play's worries....

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

OLine is just awful. Trading a first for TRich was a huge mistake. All resources should have been made to improve the OLine. How many teams draft a running back in the 5th round and even undrafted and do well? More often than naught now. A rb is only as good as it's OLine blocking for them.

Second is the stubborness of Pep. Power run game is the Colts. What power run game? You have to be able to run the ball before you can say that. Luck is a premiere QB and he's being held back. Luck is holding the ball too long, so that might be on him or the plays being called. Not sure, but something has to change. Colts have been playing so far above their actual ability for awhile now, but at some point, it's gonna catch up.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Agree with both of the above posts.

In the last two weeks, the Colts have been outscored 49-3 in the first halves to teams that were a combined 5-11 entering the games. That's honestly one of the worst stats I've ever seen. I'm as big of a Pagano fan as anyone, but such a hideous statistic has to fall on the coaching staff. These slow starts are going to cost us in the playoffs.

We always seem to play to the level of our opponent. It's great when you beat San Francisco, Seattle, and Denver, but it sucks when you lose to Miami, San Diego, and St. Louis, while barely squeaking by against Houston and Oakland.

Why in the hell were there multiple instances in which TY Hilton was off the field for David freaking Reed? This consistently happened throughout the game. I was sure that this crap would stop after the Wayne injury, but I guess not. Pep is stubborn and so much of what he does is completely indefensible. TY Hilton off the field was bad enough when we still had Reggie Wayne, but now the guy is literally our only reliable big playmaker. He needs to be out there virtually 100% of the time

Speaking of Pep, remember when we ran it on a 3rd and 10 deep in our own territory? God that was awful. Also, try rolling Luck out for once. He got killed in the pocket.

This was easily Luck's worst game of his career, no question about it. Missed open guys. Overthrew several balls to wide open players. Just a disgusting performance. I'll give the guy a break since he has been so phenomenal for a year and a half and I realize that even the best have bad games, but this was just hideous.

It's embarrassing how DHB can't catch the easiest of balls.

I like Fleener. He was wide open several times today and Luck either overthrew him or forced passes to DHB instead.

Vontae Davis has been a complete scrub the last two weeks after being such a monster the first 7 weeks of the season. Why is this guy getting burned so badly all of the sudden?

We should win the AFC South barring a complete collapse, which means that we will host a wildcard game (NE and either Den/KC will get a bye). We can maybe even win that wildcard game. But I'm afraid that the chances of a deep playoff run with Super Bowl aspirations ended with the Reggie Wayne injury. We just don't have enough playmakers on offense to make up for it. Hilton is fast, talented, and will continue to play well, but he is still very young and just cannot bail Luck out of sticky situations like Wayne could. Wayne was a security blanket who could make the difference in games, and there is just no way to replace that. Let's be honest, our offensive threats are pretty weak outside of TY. Fleener is promising, but DHB, Brazil, Whalen, David Reed, and our running game aren't going to scare anyone.

We have too many injuries to our skill positions and a bad OL. We aren't dominant enough in the other phases of the game to make up for it. Before the season, I would have said that there were three players who we couldn't afford to lose under any circumstances: Luck, Wayne, and Mathis. We unfortunately lost one of those players.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

I tell you what has disappointed me about TRich... pass catching. I thought he was supposed to be a good pass catcher but every catch seems to be an adventure. The commentators were questioning why they didn't utilize TRich more in the passing game, but then surmising the Colts needing him pass blocking some, but IMHO the main reason is he's not shown to be a consistent reception threat.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

our coaches let us down. the "ground and pound" hasn't worked since the SF game back in week 3. It didn't work last week, and we got down big to Houston. Why in the hell would we try this "ground and pound" again this week is beyond me

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

with regards to T rich, I really don't know what his deal is. He has been pretty awful, but Barry Krauss spoke very highly of him on the post-game radio show. As a Freshman, he was better than his teammate Mark Ingram, who went on to win the Heisman. Don't know if he has some kind of mental issue, but it is bizarre just how bad he has been.

If turner beats out hill and mahinmi in camp then fine, but odds of that happening are slim.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

our coaches let us down. the "ground and pound" hasn't worked since the SF game back in week 3. It didn't work last week, and we got down big to Houston. Why in the hell would we try this "ground and pound" again this week is beyond me

Right, and week 3 was the week Bradshaw went off. He's the perfect guy for a "ground and pound" attack because he just has a knack for fighting for extra yards. It's a damn shame that he got hurt. He's the kind of guy you want on your team in January.

I know that their are O-Line issues, but I just don't buy that Bradshaw wouldn't have done a better job at getting more than T-Rich. Over the last couple of weeks, I have finally begun to admit to myself that it was a bad trade. I tried to sip the koolaide at first, and I was patient and gave him excuses the first few weeks, but it's time to admit that this guy just isn't very good. I know that our O-Line is bad, but I'd bet all the money in the world that Bradshaw would have done a better job of getting more yards. There's obviously nothing we can do about that since Bradshaw is hurt, but I'm just making a point that better running backs could do more than T-Rich.

I respect Grigs for rolling the dice and I understand the logic behind the trade since I supported it at first. I'm definitely Monday morning quarterbacking, but T-Rich just isn't very good. Certainly not worth a first round pick so far.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

The thing is, at least for a while, it seemed TRich could barrel into the line and get a yard on power alone. DBrown could not. Brown got his yards from needing/finding a hole and then taking off. Or getting the corner. So, TRich still gave me hope we could start getting those 3rd and 1's without being predictable and having to pass. But now, TRich is just getting blown up in the backfield. So I'm still not ready to put it all on him. If you're getting blown up in the backfield that kind of limits you.....

I think our run game is just too obvious. I think we need to set it up with the pass first. Of course, that's harder to say since we lost Reggie. And Dwayne Allen was a huge loss too. And TRich SHOULD be a threat with a screen (AKA 'long' handoff) but he's been DHB type inconsistent catching these passes the few times we go to it.

This season really has been an injury nightmare. "Next man up" gets old after a while. We don't have the horses to be that power running team right now. And the passing game needs Luck playing a lot better than today.

Him getting the ball out quickly has to be hampered by the 2nd and 3rd string wideouts and DHB's propensity to drop the ball. It has to be hard to throw on instinct when you don't have the confidence in your receivers you once had. It has to cause him to hesitate and think more.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Meh... I honestly stopped watching after 21-0. Couldn't take it any more because it was so bad. Switched to RedZone and saved myself the embarassment.

Yesterday was a kind of shitstorm because all the things that we know and bother our team showed up. Glaringly. Poor OL blocking and pass protection. That useless interior is absolutely pathetic. The ineptitude starts to include Thornton too. But there is hope too cause he is a rookie. Basically no running game as a result(and not only because of the line). Receivers that either fail to get open at times or unable to catch the ball (DHB I'm looking at you. GTFO now really). Unable to stop the run. Pass rush not there bar Mathis (they passed few times yesterday but you get the general point).

Bad offensive playcalling and stubborness in some **** power run mentality. Falling behind in so many games early would finally catch up at some point.

Add to that that Luck was awful and missed open guys and forced things and Davis looking as a scrub the last couple of games in coverage and you have that pathetic performance.

I agree completely with Sollozo. I was secretely thinking it after Reggie's injury but any hopes for deep playoff run are basically gone. Simply not even one guy that you trust on the receiving corp to make the huge play. Team has been really unlucky with the injuries.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Tennessee will be tough on Thursday. They will be pumped up to play us like it's the Super Bowl.

Along with that game, we still have some brutal road games left: @ AZ, @ Cin, @ KC. Those are four tough road games.

Home games: TEN, HOU, JAX. The three division teams, so not very hard.

I like our chances to go 3-0 at home and am hoping for 2-2 on the road games, but won't be surprised if it's something like 1-3.

I'll say that we finish 11-5. Those road games are tough, but we really do seem to play to the level of our opponent. When it's a tough game against a good opponent, we play well and win. When it's a seemingly easy game against an opponent who we are better than, we don't play well.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

with regards to T rich, I really don't know what his deal is. He has been pretty awful, but Barry Krauss spoke very highly of him on the post-game radio show. As a Freshman, he was better than his teammate Mark Ingram, who went on to win the Heisman. Don't know if he has some kind of mental issue, but it is bizarre just how bad he has been.

I'm aware that our line is bad, but it's NOT all on the line no matter what some here say. T-Rich just isn't very good. The Colts ahven't had a single running back int he last 10 years that I wouldn't rather hand the ball off to. The holes his line opened for him in college are not there in the NFL. Holes like that are not anywhere for anyone in the NFL so you have to do something with what you have instead of continuing to pretend the holes are there when you get the ball. We need to be running out of play action, lots of draws, lots of stretches, lots of screens. When T-Rich is in the game, everyone in the building knows what's coming. It's a run up the middle. If you at least tried to mix it up and pass out of that situation, run a play action fake so they load the line and take the slot receiver over the middle, if you can get DHB to catch the damned thing. Good coaches adjust to the personnel instead of expecting personnel who don't have the ability to run your "scheme" to do it anyway. Pep seems to think he is trotting completely different players out there than what he actually has.

Bottom line is that there's just an absolutley putrid mix of bad going on in this offense right now and sooner or later they're going to have to change it.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

I'm aware that our line is bad, but it's NOT all on the line no matter what some here say. T-Rich just isn't very good. The Colts ahven't had a single running back int he last 10 years that I wouldn't rather hand the ball off to. The holes his line opened for him in college are not there in the NFL. Holes like that are not anywhere for anyone in the NFL so you have to do something with what you have instead of continuing to pretend the holes are there when you get the ball. We need to be running out of play action, lots of draws, lots of stretches, lots of screens. When T-Rich is in the game, everyone in the building knows what's coming. It's a run up the middle. If you at least tried to mix it up and pass out of that situation, run a play action fake so they load the line and take the slot receiver over the middle, if you can get DHB to catch the damned thing. Good coaches adjust to the personnel instead of expecting personnel who don't have the ability to run your "scheme" to do it anyway. Pep seems to think he is trotting completely different players out there than what he actually has.

Bottom line is that there's just an absolutley putrid mix of bad going on in this offense right now and sooner or later they're going to have to change it.

Yeah, T-Rich just isn't any good. It sucks that we got fleeced in that deal, but it is what it is.

I'm a critic of the plays Pep calls and the fact that we had multiple plays where David bleeping Reed was out there in place of TY, but in the grand scheme of things, he's simply running the offense that the head coach wants. Pagano is the one obsessed with the power run ground and pound philosophy. That's great when you have Ahmad Bradhaw on your team who can fight for extra yards, but it doesn't work so well when you have T-Rich who crumbles after 2 yards.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

This team just isn't very good.

I feel like the talent level across the NFL is down (The Colts being 6-3 and Kansas City being undefeated are exhibits 1a and 1b of this). You have some transcendent talents, but no real transcendent units. Maybe the Broncos offense.

But think back just 5-6 years, you had so many transcendent units, Colts offense, Pats offense, Saints offense, Ravens defense, Steelers defense, Bears defense the list could probably go on.

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

but it doesn't work so well when you have T-Rich who crumbles after 2 yards.

Yeah, that's it. Guess this needs to be posted, again.

Trent Richardson ended the game with a -2.2 grade, which you might expect for a player who could only muster 37 rushing yards from 14 carries, but in truth almost all of that came because of his fumble - a play where he was being gang tackled and the ball was stripped from his grasp as half of Denver rode him to the ground. Otherwise he was dealt the blocking equivalent of the Dead Man's Hand, meeting players in the backfield on seemingly every carry, and barely getting an opportunity all day to run the ball without having to make a cut in the backfield as the play had been blown to hell. Richardson forced five missed tackles, and gained 25 of his 37 yards after contact. That means that on 14 carries his blocking generated him just 12 yards before he was hit. The same ran true for Brown, who gained 12 of his 23 yards after contact. Richardson may be killing some fantasy teams, but the fault lies not at his door, at least not entirely

Trent can't even get back to the LOS before there is contact, usually from mutliple defenders, but yeah, it's Trent's fault because he's such a weak runner.

Some of you guys seriously need to go watch some Balt. Ravens games this year and ask yourself, did Ray Rice suddenly become someone different or does the 5 men upfront have something to do with his struggles? His yards per carry has almost been cut in half.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

I feel like the talent level across the NFL is down (The Colts being 6-3 and Kansas City being undefeated are exhibits 1a and 1b of this). You have some transcendent talents, but no real transcendent units. Maybe the Broncos offense.

But think back just 5-6 years, you had so many transcendent units, Colts offense, Pats offense, Saints offense, Ravens defense, Steelers defense, Bears defense the list could probably go on.

New Orleans also has an insane offense.

I think the insane amount of injuries league wide to key players has watered stuff down.

The Pats were without Gronk for the first 6 weeks and Amendola was hurt. Their offense struggled, though they kept winning.

Green Bay is now without Rodgers and Cobb. Plus Clay Matthews was hurt.

Atlanta lost Julio Jones while Roddy White has been a hobbled corpse all season.

The Colts have a nice record, but they've been slammed by brutal injuries to key offensive starters.

The Steelers got old while the Ravens lost virtually everyone from that Super Bowl team outside of Flacco and Rice.

Trent can't even get back to the LOS before there is contact, usually from mutliple defenders, but yeah, it's Trent's fault because he's such a weak runner.

Some of you guys seriously need to go watch some Balt. Ravens games this year and ask yourself, did Ray Rice suddenly become someone different or does the 5 men upfront have something to do with his struggles? His yards per carry has almost been cut in half.

I'm not saying that it's entirely his fault. I would give fairly equal blame to T-Rich/offensive line/play calling. But the guy just looks slow and unable to make something out of nothing like a good RB can. So far, we have been fleeced in that deal. In 7 games with the Colts, I see nothing from Richardson that even remotely resembles the performance Bradshaw turned in against San Francisco behind virtually the same line T-Rich has been behind all season. A really good running back can compensate at times for a bad line.

I've only watched 2 or 3 Ravens games this year, but Ray Rice suddenly becoming different isn't very hard to believe. He had the absolute hell ran out of him from 09-12. Keep in mind that they had multiple playoff runs and play in the hard hitting NFC North. That has all added up on his body. He is an old 26. Sometimes running backs can crumble overnight. Look at LaDanian Tomlinson or Shaun Alexander.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Any running back that is constantly getting hit in the backfield is going to look slow. The guy can barely get back to to the LOS, which is 6 yards in front of him, so there is literally no room to get up to speed.

What running back is good enough to evade multiple tacklers in the backfield, and pick up chunks of postiive yardage each run? Are there any?

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Let me get this out of the way on Monday, so we don't have to talk about it again on Friday.

The Colts offensive line sucks. Richardson isn't going to get much and Luck is going to have a bunch of hurries/knockdowns/sacks. This is it folks. It's not going to get any better until some injuries get healed, new linemen are brought in, or both.

What if someone from a school of business or management school were to ask, How did you do this? How did you get the Pacers turned around? Is there a general approach you've taken that can be summarized?

Re: Colts vs Rams Post Game Thread

Thinking a back can overcome multiple defenders in the back field each week is getting just as old.

I'm not saying it's a good situation and nobody here is. I think that SOME of the time he should be able to make something happen out of it regardless. Is he going to be consistently successful the way things are? Of course not, no RB could. But lots of running backs do continue to make plays in spite of bad lines in front of them. Some do it a lot. T-Rich never does it. To the point that we should just stop handing him the ball. But the Colts still do.