(23-06-2014 08:34 AM)Dark Light Wrote: Although I have been an Atheist for about 15 years now, I just recently read my first 'Atheist' book, God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens. I didn't enjoy the read as much as some folks, but it did get me more interested in researching Islam, and I have. The Islamic states are fucking disgusting. It offends every fiber of my being and I really do hate the evil men in positions of authority in places like Pakistan, Afghanistan, Egypt, and even Turkey. But is Islam the cause, or the vehicle by which this sick power is wielded? If Muhammad had never lived, would we the the same or similar problems, or is he to blame? What about Paul of Tarsus/Saul in Christianity? Who or what is to blame?

Historically speaking, Islam is just as bad as Christianity. The only problem is that it continues into the modern age, of course we cannot forget that in a lot of areas (particularly Africa), Christianity is still as barbaric, what with the stoning, and the child-killing and the suchlike atrocities.

The only major difference is that Islam is still in it's infant-like tantrum phase, whereas for the most part Christianity was pulled through that with the heavy hands of Enlightenment thinkers.

If you removed Islam from the equation, I think we might have had quite a few less troubles throughout history, but many of today's problems (ME instability for example) would probably still be around.

The people closely associated with the namesake of female canines are suffering from a nondescript form of lunacy.
"Anti-environmentalism is like standing in front of a forest and going 'quick kill them they're coming right for us!'" - Jake Farr-Wharton, The Imaginary Friend Show.

(23-06-2014 09:52 AM)Dark Light Wrote: So, let's cut closer to the issue. Is there something of the setup, or texts, or rituals, etc. of Islam which causes it to be so...appaling. Christians used to do the same type of bullshit, but generally don't anymore. Why?

Like others have mentioned, one reason is that Christianity is just six hundred years further down the same road.

Another reason that I don't think has been mentioned is that Genghis Khan killed all the enlightened Muslims. It's my understanding that they were on the path to moderation and tolerance and would have left Europe in the dust if the Mongols hadn't slaughtered the smart people and sent the Islamic countries back to the stone age.

"I feel as though the camera is almost a kind of voyeur in Mr. Beans life, and you just watch this bizarre man going about his life in the way that he wants to."

this is unusual , I haven't seen a lot of people who really can understand the difference between Shia and Sunni (granted they are both equally crazy)

I know much more about Shia ones :

-They are much more open to using their own understanding of Koran rather than what is exactly says (Tafsir : which is basically a much more careful look in the same falsehood is more open to discuss in shia doctorate , sharia laws are based on that and the constitutions of course)

-they don't bomb up places but they also won't protest against that (if they have to they will but I Write more on that later)

- they don't have weird laws like : women driving is illegal or they can't sit beside a wall because the word wall in Arabic is "written as a male"

- they both have "wajib ul qatal" which mean you have to kill someone who insults the prophets or tries to grow doubt in any of the main basis of religion (Allah is only one god , the prophecy , that god is just, one other thing that I forgot and Imams which are other descendant from the prophet Mohammad are valid sources for shia including their Hadith ,a written stories )
they would kill atheists if they are men .if they are women they'll be jailed until they repent (in sonny doctorate they both will be killed)

two type of atheists:

1- national atheist (example as a man)
someone who chose Islam by him/herself but is now an atheist will have three days time to repent if he did then his forgiven
2-Fitrah atheist
who is a Muslim because of his parents, will have three days to repent and if he did or didn't repent , either way he won't be forgiven and will be killed ( what?! at least the national one had a choice)
if the atheist is also a Kafir (who is a blasphemers or insults or denies any of the basics of religion obviously) he won't be forgotten at all , what he owns will be collected for the government, his marriage will not be legally and religiously correct anymore, others can own what he has,had and will have ownership of. he won't be berried beside other Muslims and wont be Ghusl-ed ( term referring to the full body ritual washing)

based on Sharia laws :
all economical,governmental and every other thing will be based on the religion (they ask you about your religion on all registration forms )

(23-06-2014 09:06 AM)Thinkerbelle Wrote: Any religion can be abused or misdirected for personal gain. And they frequently are.

Of course, but is Islam designed to install it's sickness better than others, or are the people (do to factors outside of religion) , chiefly men, more to blame?

I think Rev hit on what I was talking about more, but it only brings up more questions for me. The Gauls, The Franks, etc were all very much 'tribal' during the early Middle Ages, around the birth of Islam. Europe moved on, these other folks did not...and they had much better mathematicians and scientists at the time.

Neil deGrasse Tyson explains it perfectly here:

“Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool.” - Mark Twain

(23-06-2014 02:28 PM)Deltabravo Wrote: Yes, I live about 70 miles from Syria and while there is a "war" going on there it is mainly made up of untrained young men with a few mortars which they shoot into a nearby deserted village across a "front line" and then run off.

Which makes most Syrian towns less dangerous than an elementary school in the US. Sad but true.

Islamic republic - 70 miles from Syria. So you're in Turkey?

There's a little thing called the Turkish Armed Forces. Maybe you've heard of them? I think they might have something to do with the lack of spillover conflict.

Maybe you aren't aware, but 200,000 people have died in Syria. Millions are refugees. There are only 20,000,000 Syrians. Civilians have been indiscriminately targeted by regime forces and radical rebels alike. And don't forget the chemical weapons. That's one in four homeless and one in a hundred dead.

So maybe I just missed the newscast where 3 million Americans were killed in civil war and 50 million became homeless refugees.

A statement like "America is more dangerous than Syria" is so staggeringly unadjacent to the truth I can't even being to comprehend how you formulated it.

(23-06-2014 02:28 PM)Deltabravo Wrote: Yes, I live about 70 miles from Syria and while there is a "war" going on there it is mainly made up of untrained young men with a few mortars which they shoot into a nearby deserted village across a "front line" and then run off.

Which makes most Syrian towns less dangerous than an elementary school in the US. Sad but true.

Islamic republic - 70 miles from Syria. So you're in Turkey?

There's a little thing called the Turkish Armed Forces. Maybe you've heard of them? I think they might have something to do with the lack of spillover conflict.

Maybe you aren't aware, but 200,000 people have died in Syria. Millions are refugees. There are only 20,000,000 Syrians. Civilians have been indiscriminately targeted by regime forces and radical rebels alike. And don't forget the chemical weapons. That's one in four homeless and one in a hundred dead.

So maybe I just missed the newscast where 3 million Americans were killed in civil war and 50 million became homeless refugees.

A statement like "America is more dangerous than Syria" is so staggeringly unadjacent to the truth I can't even being to comprehend how you formulated it.

I would assume the same place he got his biblical literacy training.

(31-07-2014 04:37 PM)Luminon Wrote: America is full of guns, but they're useless, because nobody has the courage to shoot an IRS agent in self-defense