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Topic: UJK Parf Guide System - Videos (Read 148695 times)

Many thanks for your feedback and for all of the others who have mentioned how they are pleased with the PGS.

So far we have not made a lot of effort to promote the PGS as sales have almost matched production since the launch. There will be a bit of a push in the New Year and I hope to release a short video with some tips and other interesting details as soon as I can get back in the workshop.

I started building my worktop today. 3mm holes were no problem, holes in the rulers were a bit tight to get the guide pins in but a firm push did the trick.

After drilling all the 3mm holes, the 20mm holes proved to be more difficult. The first hole went well. Second hole the boring bit locked up in the guide. I was able to tap the bit out of the guide, checked the bit and guide for damage, but could not find anything. Inserted the bit back in and it was able to move freely.

So, attempted to finish the second hole, went without problem. Third and fourth holes also no problem. The during the fifth hole, the bit locked up again. This time tapping it out is far more difficult, to the point that I am afraid to apply more force, and the bit is still stuck...

I was drilling at high speed with a Festool C15, wile applying minimal force. Pulled up regularly to clear chips, vacuum hose near the guide to suck up all debris.

What did I do wrong? And what should I do with the bit and guide, to separate them?

Thanks, Alex.

[edit]

I had no patience and searched the forums for more info. Found the info about the possible burr. I tapped out the bit with a little more vigor, and checked both bit and guide. I found burrs on the bit. I hit the burrs gently with a file, and now the shaft of the bit feels smooth again. I can get the bit into the unused bushing, but the bushing used for the 4 holes feels much tighter. I can see scratches in the bushing...

I can't fathom how the burrs got on the bit though. One was on a part of the shaft that is not in the chuck at all... I guess I need to contact Axminster about this?

I started building my worktop today. 3mm holes were no problem, holes in the rulers were a bit tight to get the guide pins in but a firm push did the trick.

After drilling all the 3mm holes, the 20mm holes proved to be more difficult. The first hole went well. Second hole the boring bit locked up in the guide. I was able to tap the bit out of the guide, checked the bit and guide for damage, but could not find anything. Inserted the bit back in and it was able to move freely.

So, attempted to finish the second hole, went without problem. Third and fourth holes also no problem. The during the fifth hole, the bit locked up again. This time tapping it out is far more difficult, to the point that I am afraid to apply more force, and the bit is still stuck...

I was drilling at high speed with a Festool C15, wile applying minimal force. Pulled up regularly to clear chips, vacuum hose near the guide to suck up all debris.

What did I do wrong? And what should I do with the bit and guide, to separate them?

Thanks, Alex.

[edit]

I had no patience and searched the forums for more info. Found the info about the possible burr. I tapped out the bit with a little more vigor, and checked both bit and guide. I found burrs on the bit. I hit the burrs gently with a file, and now the shaft of the bit feels smooth again. I can get the bit into the unused bushing, but the bushing used for the 4 holes feels much tighter. I can see scratches in the bushing...

I can't fathom how the burrs got on the bit though. One was on a part of the shaft that is not in the chuck at all... I guess I need to contact Axminster about this?

[/edit]

Hi Alex

You do need to oil the shaft of the 20 mm drill each time before it is used.

Those burrs cannot get there from going through a bronze bush even if there was no oil. The 20 mm guide is made from aluminium and that could not be the cause.

Ordered mine yesterday. Waiting for it to arrive from the UK. Thank you for the videos and guidance. That was my first time ordering anything from Axminster, their pricing seemed very fair to me and the service was prompt. I thought I wouldn't be getting it because it isn't sold in the US, but they seemed fair on pricing, so I think I might actually buy more stuff from their site that isn't sold here. I'll use it to finally finish my MFTC bench and some built in benches.

You do need to oil the shaft of the 20 mm drill each time before it is used.

Those burrs cannot get there from going through a bronze bush even if there was no oil. The 20 mm guide is made from aluminium and that could not be the cause.

Contact Axminster and see what they say.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply!

I don't think the part about lubricating the shaft is in the manual. I followed the manual to the letter (to the point of not applying common sense) because I thought the system would specify it if lubrication was needed.

I mailed Axminster, will report back here with their reply.

In the mean time I cleaned up both the bit and the bushing with a piece of sandpaper, and was able to drill all the remaining holes in the MDF. I might have lost a wee bit of precision this way, but at least the set is not unusable anymore.

What I found is that my initial technique of high rpm and minimal pressure does not work well. Low rpm and firm pressure works much better (and faster too). Holes have a bit of tear-out on the bottom, but I intend to round them over for easier clamp insertion anyway.

You do need to oil the shaft of the 20 mm drill each time before it is used.

Those burrs cannot get there from going through a bronze bush even if there was no oil. The 20 mm guide is made from aluminium and that could not be the cause.

Contact Axminster and see what they say.

Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply!

I don't think the part about lubricating the shaft is in the manual. I followed the manual to the letter (to the point of not applying common sense) because I thought the system would specify it if lubrication was needed.

I mailed Axminster, will report back here with their reply.

In the mean time I cleaned up both the bit and the bushing with a piece of sandpaper, and was able to drill all the remaining holes in the MDF. I might have lost a wee bit of precision this way, but at least the set is not unusable anymore.

What I found is that my initial technique of high rpm and minimal pressure does not work well. Low rpm and firm pressure works much better (and faster too). Holes have a bit of tear-out on the bottom, but I intend to round them over for easier clamp insertion anyway.

Thanks, and a happy new year,

Alex

Straight from page 6 of the manual:

"NOTE: When making multiple cuts we recommend occasionally smear a light coat of 2-1 oil on the 20mm TCT drill bit shaft to prevent overheating."

The 20 mm drill shaft is precision ground and you are unlikely to have lost any significant accuracy following the burr incident. I am glad that you are now producing nice 20 mm holes again. You make an excellent point about drill speed as the chippings have to have time to be sucked up into the extractor and so going at not too fast a rate is a good idea.

With the table surface 18mm Baltic Ply, the PGS made short work of producing a MFT work surface. I added a mitered T-Slot border edge that allows for mounting add-ons such as the combination work-tray and storage cart. I added a two prong remote electrical switch since I use a non-motorized sanding block connected to a vacuum hose. The wood border edge allows fixing the boom to keep vacuum hoses and electrical cords out of the way.

Thanks Peter for a splendid contribution to woodworking.

Details are posted in the Jig section.

Showing top and stow-away cart

Set up with boom, storage cart, two prong remote plug.

Logged

Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths." Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

The 20 mm drill shaft is precision ground and you are unlikely to have lost any significant accuracy following the burr incident. I am glad that you are now producing nice 20 mm holes again. You make an excellent point about drill speed as the chippings have to have time to be sucked up into the extractor and so going at not too fast a rate is a good idea.

Many thanks for pointing out that the very important point about lubrication is covered in the manual.

Happy New Year everyone.

Peter

@Peter Parfitt Hi Peter, I received one of the first production runs of the UJK Parf Guide Systems and in the instruction manual there is no mention of using light oil to lubricate the 20mm TCT drill bit. The instruction manual must have been updated for later runs. So if anyone else has an early set they also might find this important information missing.

@Peter Parfitt Hi Peter, I received one of the first production runs of the UJK Parf Guide Systems and in the instruction manual there is no mention of using light oil to lubricate the 20mm TCT drill bit. The instruction manual must have been updated for later runs. So if anyone else has an early set they also might find this important information missing.

I have mentioned oil in almost every video about the PGS. However, I will contact Axminster now and make sure that they check that there is no discrepancy between the written instructions and those provided on their web site.

Many thanks for the information about your copy of the instruction manual.

I can confirm there is no mention of oil in the instruction manual I received. Must be the older version as well. It is dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224.

Also, on page 7 a section of text about Making a Track Saw Cutting Station is printed twice. ("In figure 14 a pattern ... Veritas Parf Dogs will be used").

Nevertheless, the last few days I have used the worktop I made after cleaning up the bit and bushing extensively, and it is perfect. I have not found any slop whatsoever. I was able to make nice square cuts, even used the top a bit creatively as a square by putting the Parf Dogs with the long end through the holes, butting that up to the workpiece, and laying the track against the squared edge of the top. (I had to square up a piece that was larger than the worktop).

I can confirm there is no mention of oil in the instruction manual I received. Must be the older version as well. It is dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224.

Also, on page 7 a section of text about Making a Track Saw Cutting Station is printed twice. ("In figure 14 a pattern ... Veritas Parf Dogs will be used").

Nevertheless, the last few days I have used the worktop I made after cleaning up the bit and bushing extensively, and it is perfect. I have not found any slop whatsoever. I was able to make nice square cuts, even used the top a bit creatively as a square by putting the Parf Dogs with the long end through the holes, butting that up to the workpiece, and laying the track against the squared edge of the top. (I had to square up a piece that was larger than the worktop).

I am very happy with the product Peter, thanks!

Many thanks for the information. I have already emailed Axminster but I will follow this up with the information that you have given.

I am so glad that you like the PGS, it makes me feel really proud. I just wish Dad could have seen all of this.

Having ordered & received the Parf Guide System last week in between the Xmas & New Year i can also confirm the current Manual being shipped by Axminster is the one dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224 & does not contain the oiling information. However having watched Peters very informative YouTube videos i was aware of this..

I would like to point out also that contrary to 1 or 2 posts in this thread Axminster are still shipping the original 20mm drill bit with the Parf Guide System & not the revised Hex shank version Code: 102481 with depth stop bushing which is rather disappointing.

Be aware there is 2 versions of the 20mm drill bit on the Axminster website: Code: 102481 new Hex Shank Version & the old original Code: 101841.

Not sure if its possible to order the depth stop bushing as a separate part to use on the original 20mm bits? but that would definitely be advantageous & if anyone knows the part number it would be appreciated.

Having ordered & received the Parf Guide System last week in between the Xmas & New Year i can also confirm the current Manual being shipped by Axminster is the one dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224 & does not contain the oiling information. However having watched Peters very informative YouTube videos i was aware of this..

I would like to point out also that contrary to 1 or 2 posts in this thread Axminster are still shipping the original 20mm drill bit with the Park Guide System & not the revised Hex shank version Code: 102481 with depth stop bushing which is rather disappointing.

Be aware there is 2 versions of the 20mm drill bit on the Axminster website: Code: 102481 new Hex Shank Version & the old original Code: 101841.

Not sure if its possible to order the depth stop bushing as a separate part to use on the original 20mm bits? but that would definitely be advantageous & if anyone knows the part number it would be appreciated.

Hi Womble

Many thanks for that update. @AxminsterTools perhaps you can look into this and answer the points.

I am releasing a News and Tips video soon for the PGS and I will cover the straight/hex shank cutter in detail.

Having ordered & received the Parf Guide System last week in between the Xmas & New Year i can also confirm the current Manual being shipped by Axminster is the one dated 31/03/2016 with REF: 102224 & does not contain the oiling information. However having watched Peters very informative YouTube videos i was aware of this..

I would like to point out also that contrary to 1 or 2 posts in this thread Axminster are still shipping the original 20mm drill bit with the Park Guide System & not the revised Hex shank version Code: 102481 with depth stop bushing which is rather disappointing.

Be aware there is 2 versions of the 20mm drill bit on the Axminster website: Code: 102481 new Hex Shank Version & the old original Code: 101841.

Not sure if its possible to order the depth stop bushing as a separate part to use on the original 20mm bits? but that would definitely be advantageous & if anyone knows the part number it would be appreciated.

Hi Womble

Many thanks for that update. @AxminsterTools perhaps you can look into this and answer the points.

I am releasing a News and Tips video soon for the PGS and I will cover the straight/hex shank cutter in detail.

Peter

Good Afternoon,

Just to cover of your points. We are working now to update all of our current stock with the most up to date version of the manual, apologies you hadn't received the most recent version. The current version is on our website to download here.

In relation to the recently added Centrotec compatible hex shank cutter, we are continually looking for ways to improve our products and this was identified as a great improvement. It is currently an optional accessory and not supplied with the basic PGS.

Finally, we are currently investigating stocking the depth stop collar on it's own however at this point there is no timescale to this. We hope to have it available on it's own in the very near future.

Just a quick reply about the follow up by Axminster: they sent me a new replacement guide block with bushings at no cost. Very good customer service, I have not experienced this level of service from a company often.

Together with the PGS I ordered a set of guide rail clamps; these are a fraction of the costs of the Festool or Bessey branded clamps and as far as I can judge these white label clamps are top notch! Will definitely order from Axminster again in the future.

Just ordered mine today, with the new bit and a set of short and tall parf dogs. For the whole order, shipping was slightly less than VAT, so I got better than the VAT included prices. The exchange rate was .81 pounds to the dollar (corrected). BTW, even with shipping, the parf dogs were significantly less expensive than ordering from Lee Valley.

I would never have placed this order without reading this thread. The combination of Peter's videos and the discussions of Axminster's ordering service and prices, the advantages of the new bit, and the role that the parf dogs play in the whole process made a cumulative impression that made me comfortable making the order.

Now I just have to wait for all of the pieces parts to make it across the pond.

Just ordered mine today, with the new bit and a set of short and tall parf dogs. For the whole order, shipping was slightly less than VAT, so I got better than the VAT included prices. The exchange rate was .81 $ to the pound. BTW, even with shipping, the parf dogs were significantly less expensive than ordering from Lee Valley.

I would never have placed this order without reading this thread. The combination of Peter's videos and the discussions of Axminster's ordering service and prices, the advantages of the new bit, and the role that the parf dogs play in the whole process made a cumulative impression that made me comfortable making the order.

Now I just have to wait for all of the pieces parts to make it across the pond.

It sounds like you are very well organised. Perhaps when you have got the kit you could share some pictures of the top(s) that you make and any other ideas that come to mind (like Parf Hats, the longer wooden blocks with 20 mm holes for right angle clamping and so on).

It prevents the shank becoming burred by a drill chuck. Any such burrs could cause a problem when inserting the shank into the guide bush.

Hence the conversation we have been having regarding the use of light oil on the shaft of original boring bit which Peter mentions in his videos and the online instructions but is missing from the printed manual.

The actual cutting capability is identical. Both cutters still need to have a smear of oil on the shaft each time it goes into the 20 mm Guide Block at the start of a session.

There have been some cases where users have managed to get a burr on the shaft of the parallel sided 20 mm cutter from the interaction with the user's chuck. The Centrotec (and hex compatible) end will overcome any chuck related issues but this cutter still needs a smear of oil before use.

Having asked a few friends and judging some comments that come to me there are some who would prefer the straight shaft and some who would prefer the Centrotec one. These things are not cheap and it is my understanding that @AxminsterTools are continuing to sell the PGS with the original cutter as the Centrotec one (which comes with a stop collar) is more expensive. I am sure that they can review this at a later stage but for now the Centrotec cutter is an optional extra and not part of the standard PGS.

Regardless of the choice, these cutters in the 20 mm Guide Block make the perfect size hole for the Veritas Parf Dogs.

It does not matter what the overall size of the PGS top is since it can be laid out and then trimmed to final size. If the only alternative, because of construction. is that it cannot be trimmed to fit, an extension can be added for the rules. In the instant project, it is best to follow Maestro Peter’s frequent admonition to “always have a scheme.” Lay out, perhaps on paper, at 96mm intervals, the proposed overall size of your project and locate the feet since your “scheme” decides not only where the 20mm holes are but where they Don’t need to be.

To decide on overall size, use this 3rd grade Pythagorean memory jogger: 1-2-Three-Four-Five-6. This defines the basic three sides of the right angle triangle. By adding a 10mm radius to each end of 96mm centers, the width and depth of the project can be determined thusly:

Many thanks for the great feedback. It looks like the PGS will meet my needs. Obviously, I have more work to do to lay out the bench, determine exact height, and determine how to best use my 20mm-based clamps and other fittings.

Again, thanks and best regards,

Dan.

P.s. My MFT 1080 is about about 9 years old now. Still works great and is my most used tool, but the top is in rough shape. Obviously using the PGS would make creating a new top both inexpensive and pretty straight forward. On the other hand, it's not clear to me whether this is the best option. I.e. It could be that making a custom MFT might be better. But that's another project.

Dan, I'm curious what you hope to gain from the PGS for your small Bench Top Bench. The genius in the PGS is in its ability to allow you to lay out an array of 20mm holes in a near cnc accurate pattern, most typically for use with a track saw, but also for woodworking tasks that can take advantage of a larger array than your Bench Top Bench.

My imagination may be lacking but I can't envision a benefit from having the precise layout of holes provided by the PGS on such a small surface, let alone the complexity of setting up the Bench Top into a fixture/jig to allow the Parf Sticks to function per design. (Ideally, they can use a meter-square work surface to take advantage of their inherent designed accuracy).

Clearly, the PGS would be ideal for fabricating a new top for your 1080 or a new MFT, and several of its components might be very useful in drilling the dog holes for your Bench Top Bench.

As a matter if information, I recently received my PGS from Axminster here in Florida; the invoice cost was £99.96, $123.40US. I bought several other items, among them a couple guide rail clamps that appear to be identical to Festool items that sell for $43 a pair that Axminster gets $8/ea for. Wish I'd bought several.

The PGS came with the round shank 20mm drill bit, I bought a an extra, centrotec shanked bit and stop collar for $25.67 just because. I ordered my PGS a week or so before Peter Parfitt announced the change to the centrotec bit being included in the PGS.

Best, Gary

Edit: Oops. My bad. As noted below, My info about the 20mm drill bit included with the PGS was wrong. Apologies. Thanks, squarecut.

The PGS came with the round shank 20mm drill bit, I bought a an extra, centrotec shanked bit and stop collar for $25.67 just because. I ordered my PGS a week or so before Peter Parfitt announced the change to the centrotec bit being included in the PGS.

On reflection, I may have overstated the benefit of the meter square work surface with respect to taking advantage of the inherent design accuracy of the PGS and its meter long Parf sticks. I've not got the mathematical education to back that statement up but it felt right when I was composing my post. I'm pretty sure using a 6-8-10 triangle has the potential of giving more precise results than a 3-4-5 triangle, but then I may have started making things up.

I doubt any harm has been done, and I apologize for being too quick with my slowing synapses.

On reflection, I may have overstated the benefit of the meter square work surface with respect to taking advantage of the inherent design accuracy of the PGS and its meter long Parf sticks. I've not got the mathematical education to back that statement up but it felt right when I was composing my post. I'm pretty sure using a 6-8-10 triangle has the potential of giving more precise results than a 3-4-5 triangle, but then I may have started making things up.

I doubt any harm has been done, and I apologize for being too quick with my slowing synapses.

Cheers, Gary

6-8-10 is 3-4-5 doubled. I only wanted to point out the minimum size possible and to provide an easier to remember way to set the rules. 1-2-Three-Four-Five-6. All setting are multiples of the basic formula. The formula is accurate up to great pyramids of Egypt and beyond. The Egyptians used knots in a rope. Thank goodness for Maestro Peter's improvement with steel rules, a lot easier than a knotted rope.

Apparently some find a small MFT surface useful.

Logged

Clark Fork

"A lot of people are afraid of heights. Not me, I'm afraid of widths." Stephen Wright

"straight, smooth and square" Mr. Russell, first day high school shop class-1954

" What's the good of it?" My Sainted Grandmother

"You can't be too rich, too thin or have too many clamps." After my introduction to pocket joinery and now the MFT work process

"Don't make something unless it is both made necessary and useful; but if it is both necessary and useful, don't hesitate to make it beautiful." -- Shaker dictum

Dan, I'm curious what you hope to gain from the PGS for your small Bench Top Bench. The genius in the PGS is in its ability to allow you to lay out an array of 20mm holes in a near cnc accurate pattern, most typically for use with a track saw, but also for woodworking tasks that can take advantage of a larger array than your Bench Top Bench.

My imagination may be lacking but I can't envision a benefit from having the precise layout of holes provided by the PGS on such a small surface, let alone the complexity of setting up the Bench Top into a fixture/jig to allow the Parf Sticks to function per design. (Ideally, they can use a meter-square work surface to take advantage of their inherent designed accuracy).

Clearly, the PGS would be ideal for fabricating a new top for your 1080 or a new MFT, and several of its components might be very useful in drilling the dog holes for your Bench Top Bench.

As a matter if information, I recently received my PGS from Axminster here in Florida; the invoice cost was £99.96, $123.40US. I bought several other items, among them a couple guide rail clamps that appear to be identical to Festool items that sell for $43 a pair that Axminster gets $8/ea for. Wish I'd bought several.

The PGS came with the round shank 20mm drill bit, I bought a an extra, centrotec shanked bit and stop collar for $25.67 just because. I ordered my PGS a week or so before Peter Parfitt announced the change to the centrotec bit being included in the PGS.

Best, Gary

Edit: Oops. My bad. As noted below, My info about the 20mm drill bit included with the PGS was wrong. Apologies. Thanks, squarecut.

Gary,

Good question. One thing I shoot for is flexibility. My MFT is very flexible but it's too low and doesn't work well for certain clamping situations. That bench top bench with Moxon vise in Clark's post above looks just what I need.

Having more, aligned 20mm holes may give me more flexibility when clamping. And, even without more holes, the PGS may make it easier to get the standard holes aligned better.

Finally, I have one of those MFT Systainers shown in Clark's post above. It's worked very well for some work on the house. So a mini-workbench can be very useful. Whether more holes will make more useful is an open question.