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Ok, I just looked at the raw, and I gotta call BS as well on how Hysteria goes down. Miria couldn't have been lying on top of a sword (hiding it), because we see her on her knees right before she falls down, and there's no sword under or anywhere near her. Those swords are long, it'd have been visible. I'm left wondering what Yagi was trying to pull here.

Anyway, just going by the pictures, Roxanne seems to be far more unhinged than we were led to believe. Seriously. And looking at that stuff pouring out of her as she awakens, her awakened form might just be the stuff of nightmares.

To stand up Miria doesn't have AT ALL to get on her knees as long as she has an incredibly powerful abdomen she can get up with a single fast movement of her torso using the momentum.....
Now let's see:

You can't say that Miria can't do something just because it's something impossible for a normal human, she ISN'T a normal human.

---------------------------------------------

And are people really surprised that she can hold with no problem a claymore???
First of all,saying that a claymore's weight is around 10 kg is ridiculous,lol.
In the real world claymores are less than 3 kg.........and even if we don't know what kind of material is used for those swords,there is no reason to conclude that it's so much heavier than a normal claymore.
If we also consider the absurd strenght that Miria's muscles should have compared to normal humans, it's pretty obvious that holding rirmly a claymore with her mouth should be a real joke for someone like Miria,especially when she's using yoki (even if the sword's weight is 10 kg.....that btw is quite absurd in itself.....).
People are really complaining without even thinking seriously imo, who cares if those things are impossible in the real world? Miria is VERY FAR from being a normal human!
-------------------------------------------

@Nixl

Quote:

We have seen the power of Destroyer, Priscilla, and the 3 FOs. Yet, if the DoDs are to be our new villain they must be even more threatening and potentially even more powerful.

This is not true at all.Yagi could very easily find tons of logical excuses to limit Claire's powers after her fight with Prissy,and as long as you limit Claire's power Yagi can introduce to the story the DoD, that of course they must be strong,but not at asurd levels.

Btw there is also the possibility that Claire and Prissy's fight will end in a draw with both of them almost dead, it's not so certain that their first fight will be their last,maybe they'll became two real rivals ("real rivals" in the sense that even Prissy will start to see Claire as a rival,not just a smell that attracts her,lol).

@Malak
That makes even less sense than Miria using her neck muscles. Unless Claymores do not have bones (which I guess is possible seeing how Raquel could stand after having half of her body destroyed) no matter how strong her abdomen would be it wouldn't be enough to lift her up because of the center of gravity wouldn't be high enough. Normal human could maybe lift his body 5 cm up using his abdomen muscles, trained human 10-15 cm. And that's not as much limited by the strength of his muscles but elasticity of his body. But in both cases it would mean she had more power in these muscles (if we take into account forces working on a 1 square cm) than her legs which is absurd as I've said earlier when talking about neck muscles.

Anyway, assuming for a moment you're right and she had super powerful abdomen muscles that still wouldn't make sense and the fact she's not human is irrelevant. I never said she was or that the same standards as for humans apply to her. You're forgetting here who she is up against and that is - another Claymore. What's more that Claymore is more powerful and has superior technique. But you're telling me she has so powerful abdomen muscles she could outrun Hysteria even though she couldn't do it earlier using her legs, lol. That's absurd.

Malak says:
Miria could do quicker a manoeuver that consists of: lifting her body using her abdomen muscles and rotating 180 degrees while maintaining a distance longer than the length of a sword (otherwise she wouldn't be able to strike Hysteria as she did, it would be a slice, the picture clearly shows that Miria rotated faster than Hysteria could do anything since her throat was pierced) than Hysteria making a swing while being in a perfect position while watching her opponent do all this, lol. It turned out that Miria was as good as Cassandra in making impossible moves, heck, even better.

Seriously Malak, you defending this ridiculous scene and Yagi is commendable but no matter how you look at it this scene was poorly written and can be explained only by "it's manga" excuse. Sure, everything is possible if Yagi says so but some things are just inconsistent with what we've seen earlier and Yagi negates himself. That's the case here.

Change denotes neither bad nor good, but it certainly means 'not the same'. I felt this was very very rushed and Dae just giving up and choosing to end it all seems insanely out of character... especially since he had this plan for ages now. Yet for some reason this plan has now become tool to summon Priscilla whom he didn't know about before he made the plan.

I don't know about you but the logic here seems very contrived and forced, his character has just done a 180. Not to mention impossible based on the fact that he had this plan before to bring back the number 1s, yet now it has just randomly become a sťance to summon Priscilla.

He's just making this too easy for Rubel...

Plus Rimato seems smart enough... how come he didn't catch on to Dae just giving up on life and wasn't able to figure out the true intent of Dae research even though he had all of the reports.

I think you have a valid point. Yagi has been pretty inconsistent recently. Cassandra's powers goes from one of the toughest to a one trick pony who is just No.5 level without a special technique.

For Dae, the timeline seems to be messed up (correct me if I am wrong). Clearly, Dae made a certain proposal (assumed to be the zombie proposal) to Rimuto some time ago but was rejected. After Miria's invasion of the headquarter, and Dae had got his hand on Priscilla's arm, the proposal was put in action, and then the rebellion happens which forced the organization to first send in the abyssal feeders, and the zombies after that. From the conversation between Dae and Rimuto, the revival of the zombies was to bolster the defense of organization. "At this state, our defense might as well be described as naked..... rather than training younger warrior which take times....".

Clearly Dae began to work on the zombies when the organization believed that Miria has been killed. But in this chapter he mentioned without doubt that the zombies were bound to awaken. How can he use the rebellion to evade the accusation of destroying the organization? When did the plan using the three to lure Priscilla take shape? If it was before the rebellion then his plan will backfire at the organization, and the rebellion wasn't even a factor. If it was after the rebellion then what's the work earlier for? Why is he so sure of the resurrection is impossible now?

I don't really like complaining. If you hate a part so much, you can very well write, draw a manga yourself according to what you would like to happen. Miria being completely lame, in my opinion might have done something in her 7 years to actually be in her strong state. One of the probable reasons Yagi made the abrupt finish was because the fight was too dragging and he didn't want to kill Miria, a character he has been building on and many has seemed to like, again. I myself found the fight boring and although her death was unfitting for a number 1, I know Yagi has something in store for us for this sudden death.

This is not true at all.Yagi could very easily find tons of logical excuses to limit Claire's powers after her fight with Prissy,and as long as you limit Claire's power Yagi can introduce to the story the DoD, that of course they must be strong,but not at asurd levels.

Btw there is also the possibility that Claire and Prissy's fight will end in a draw with both of them almost dead, it's not so certain that their first fight will be their last,maybe they'll became two real rivals ("real rivals" in the sense that even Prissy will start to see Claire as a rival,not just a smell that attracts her,lol).

Perhaps, but consider Malak that Yagi has been following a linear progression of villains. We have gone through Yoma, powerful Yoma (Church arc), Awakened Beings, the Abysmal Ones, Abysmal Feeders, Priscilla/Destroyer, and now the 3 FOs. If Yagi continues this progression or scale then I believe it is very likely we could see the DoDs be even stronger in a sense.

You are correct that Yagi could limit Claire's powerlevels, but that partially goes along with my argument. With the DoDs Yagi can do anything he wants whether that be limit Claire's abilities or make them excessively powerful. Nonetheless, Claymore has, to a degree, centered on female warriors slaying Yoma/AB and Claire's revenge. With the death of Priscilla and the potential entrance of the DoDs we could see these two premises gone and replaced and that could change much about the story.

In addition, you brought the possibility that Priscilla may not die. That is possible Malak, but I do not think it truly stops changes that could result from the DoDs. In essence we would have a new villain and a new drive for Claire. Things will more than likely change as a result.

Spoiler for Off Topic:

So in other news the Euro is fucked. Papandreou may just be the biggest economic troll in history, granted there are many factors to consider on both sides.

That makes even less sense than Miria using her neck muscles. Unless Claymores do not have bones (which I guess is possible seeing how Raquel could stand after having half of her body destroyed) no matter how strong her abdomen would be it wouldn't be enough to lift her up because of the center of gravity wouldn't be high enough. Normal human could maybe lift his body 5 cm up using his abdomen muscles, trained human 10-15 cm. And that's not as much limited by the strength of his muscles but elasticity of his body. But in both cases it would mean she had more power in these muscles (if we take into account forces working on a 1 square cm) than her legs which is absurd as I've said earlier when talking about neck muscles.

Bullshit.
A warrior like Miria obviously has an immense explosive power in her movements (and of course great elasticity in all her body) so it's absolutely coherent from what we have seen in Claymore that Miria could stand up in a single movement thanx to her great explosive power,great elasticity and a body that's not even that heavy.
If you add to that the fact that probably while using yoki warriors can "distort" their body even more,it wouldn't be so strange for her waist to be a lot more "free to move" than normal humans.
Also for calculatring the momentum that she used to stand up we have to consider some extra kilos (at least 3kg) from the sword,that moved at high speed in an instant can produce a good extra force to help Miria to stand up.

BUT what's really funny,is that Miria didn't even completely stand up actually,she didn't go further than getting on her knees.....and she actually didn't run at all!!!!!!
You make it sound like she stood up and ran towards Histy to stab her,lol.
All Miria did was turning in a split second (not completely stood up,just on her knees at best) and stab Histy with the sword anticipating her attack. Miria didn't run at all!You are just seeing something that's not even there just because from the very beginning wanted to complain (even before the chapter was out.....).
And at least that kind of "turn up on her knees with the sword in her mouth" is something that sure as hell is withing Miria's capabilities, it's actually nothing special considering all the things that are canon in Claymore.....

.....to complete that action Miria only need a single instant where Histy dropped her focus,nothing more, so the whole action is in truth 100% belivable since Histy was sure the battle was already over and her attention was clearly very low.
It's not a multi action movement,it's a SINGLE movement!

GAME OVER, Gooral. You lost,lol.

@Nixl

Quote:

Perhaps, but consider Malak that Yagi has been following a linear progression of villains. We have gone through Yoma, powerful Yoma (Church arc), Awakened Beings, the Abysmal Ones, Abysmal Feeders, Priscilla/Destroyer, and now the 3 FOs. If Yagi continues this progression or scale then I believe it is very likely we could see the DoDs be even stronger in a sense.

Maybe you are right....but then i could object that it's not really true that Yagi always followed a linear progression:
Prissy and Teresa were introduced at the beginning (well,not really the beginning,but you get what i mean,right?) of the story....and nothing comes even close to their powers even now.......that's why Yagi could simply conside Prissy an exception,so the DoDs don't have to be stronger than her.
It would makes sense if the strongest DoDs are more or less at AOs level,maybe a little stronger (just a little!).

Quote:

You are correct that Yagi could limit Claire's powerlevels, but that partially goes along with my argument. With the DoDs Yagi can do anything he wants whether that be limit Claire's abilities or make them excessively powerful. Nonetheless, Claymore has, to a degree, centered on female warriors slaying Yoma/AB and Claire's revenge. With the death of Priscilla and the potential entrance of the DoDs we could see these two premises gone and replaced and that could change much about the story.

I agree that introducing new enemies with absurd powers would be quite bad for the story, that's why imo it's a lot better to limit Claire 's power.
For example if she defeat Prissy,she has to do it in an awakened state,this way it's not a problem for the story in the future since it would makes sense for her to not want to awaken again.
...but it's true that killing Prissy would change a lot of things and Claire would need a new drive to keep her going on (another tragedy? Please no!)....

That's why imo it's better that Prissy dies ONLY if Yagi is confident to twist the story in a VERY powerful way with a great new mission Claire. Tbh it's not a scenario easy to imagine at this point,but who knows,maybe Yagi will be able to do it.
For now i think that keeping Prissy alive but with a new relationship with Claire (real rivals,like said before) is my favorite scenario that i can imagine.
Their rivality is too good to be consumed in a single duel imo,i think Prissy vs Claire has to remain Claire's north-pole for the whole story (while the story goes on,obviously).

OFFTOPIC:

Spoiler for offtopic:

Quote:

So in other news the Euro is fucked. Papandreou may just be the biggest economic troll in history, granted there are many factors to consider on both sides.

@Gooral, I dislike the scene as well, but to be fair this is just like Teresa lowering her guard against Priscilla. She may have been faster/stronger etc, but one missed moment and Priscilla killed her. Miria had no arms and knew Hysteria would let her guard down. I think the translation would probably clear it up as a "just as planned" moment. Although, it is probably better to call it a Deus Ex Machina since we did not hear any time of inner monologue about the plan.

In terms of picking it up with her teeth, they are Claymore that regenerate, have super strength, super speed, can jump up mountains, and finally transform into monsters. Therefore, picking a Claymore up with one's teeth seems to pale in comparison. That and, she did not have to go far to stab Hysteria.

Again, I did not like it, but it is not like we have not had this before. And, in truth at least it is not Teresa's "oh let me use my powerlevels that I failed to use earlier."

Clearly Dae began to work on the zombies when the organization believed that Miria has been killed. But in this chapter he mentioned without doubt that the zombies were bound to awaken. How can he use the rebellion to evade the accusation of destroying the organization? When did the plan using the three to lure Priscilla take shape? If it was before the rebellion then his plan will backfire at the organization, and the rebellion wasn't even a factor. If it was after the rebellion then what's the work earlier for? Why is he so sure of the resurrection is impossible now?

The only reason is that dae is a crazy man ( lame ) or is a new ally of the dragoon country ( makes more sense this way)

So Miria had to get on her knees, swing around (I suppose those two can be done at the same time), and then aim. That probably is the most difficult part, since aiming while moving really, really fast can't be easy, and she was targetting a neck.

I could buy that. But the fact that she was hiding the claymore in her bosom just sours the whole event. For me anyway.

Cassandra's awakened form is... striking. Cracked me up a little when I saw the tail of Spence in there (that part of the breast that extends up to a female's axilla). Those tentacles springing from the groin are a bit disconcerting, though. I'm pretty sure those legs do nothing at all but prop the base up. I believe that Yagi just wanted to incorporate the Dust Eater posture in there. If the entire body could pivot around those legs and whirl around at ridiculous speeds while flinging those Cassandra-head-tipped tentacles, that would be awesome. It's rather interesting how even in her awakened form, wherein she has a different fighting style, Cassandra's opponents still end up looking like that had been cut up by the Dust Eater, i.e. immobilized by having all four limbs cut off before being finished off. Maybe it's just Cassandra being sadistic and wanting to torture Roxanne as much as possible before killing her? Well, whatever.

Roxanne's a total psycho, and I love it. That WTF look on her face when she realized she was laughing while missing her left arm was priceless. She got the ass-whooping she's long deserved this chapter. It just sucks that Cassandra had to lose her mind to do it, though. Cassandra seemed like such a gentle soul, and now, she seems like a glutton who seems particularly fixated on Roxanne, but wouldn't mind hurting others as well, e.g. the twins or Miria.

As for Miria vs Hysteria, well, it was quite disappointing. First of all, Hysteria's figured out the trick to evading Miria's new Phantom, but Miria pulled off a lucky shot and managed to get her sword stuck on Hysteria's chest right before Hysteria managed to chop it off. (Remember, Hysteria said that the amount of damage Miria deals when using the technique is entirely up to chance. Miria just got very lucky with her final blow. On a side note, I love that image, because it portrays Hysteria as quite... voluptuous.) Who knows, maybe she just aimed her sword at Hysteria and let inertia do the rest the moment it got sliced off?

Anyway, Miria hiding a sword under her body isn't entirely implausible. She could use one of her thighs to hide the blade and her face and neck to hide the hilt. However, it astounds me how she managed to control her fall while staggering from her new Phantom. She said it's very difficult to control the finesse of her movements when using the technique, yet she managed to fall perfectly upon a sword? Also, regardless of whether Miria had the core, neck or pterygoid muscle strength to pull off her King Bradley move, it's quite astounding that she managed to be quicker than Hysteria, who simply needed to bring down her sword. Of course there are two factors that must also be considered: 1) Hysteria had a rather serious injury (A sword through the chest should be laughing matter even for one of the most powerful No. 1 warriors in history.) and it is quite difficult to assess just how such an injury would affect her godly speed, and 2) Miria insulting her obsession for elegance as her weakness possibly putting a haze of anger over her eyes.

One thing I have to commend, though, is the irony of it all. Hysteria, the most refined warrior in terms of fighting technique, being impaled through the throat by an armless warrior with a claymore between her teeth. A most inelegant way to go. Oh, and some points off from Yagi for Hysteria managing to speak while having a sword stuck in her larynx. I know a claymore's biology is supposed to be different, but still...

Love Dae's utter obsession with Priscilla's arm. Having given up on the Organization, as he thought it "finished" the moment all the warriors defected, he played along with the plan to send out three powerful warriors not for the sake of the Organization, but for his, to satisfy his curiosity about "the arm" by luring out its owner.

Overall, it was so-so. I'm pretty sure those three new AOs will be the trigger for Deneve et al's arrival. I'm quite surprised that those three limbless wonders haven't pulled off an Audrey, i.e. peed themselves from fear. Deneve had sensed the three Forbidden Ones' yoki from quite far away and labeled them as "huge" even though the three weren't even releasing 10% of their yoki. Sure, she's no Galatea, but still... Those three's yoki must be off the charts and probably trumped only by Priscilla's and possibly the Destroyer's. Let's hope this massive yoki pool would be enough to entice not only Clare into action, but Galatea as well.

P.S. I'm really looking forward to the awakened forms of the other two, particularly Hysteria's. She'd probably go nuts and kill herself if she had an ugly awakened form.

(...) Malak is explaining it that Hysteria lowered her guard. Well, it's hard to refute if we take into account Teresa's example. The difference however between these two cases is that Miria and Hysteria were of comparable class, in fact Hysteria had an advantage. But here, Hysteria did not slow down (contrary to Teresa who suppressed her youki while facing an opponent who was faster than her at 0%), on the contrary. It looked that Miria slowed down since we didn't see her distorted face. So WTF?
Also, Miria was so powerful that after all this constant youki release she could easily attach her right arm. She even knows telekinesis since I don't see how she could put it in the right position with her teeth...

Add to that, that Teresa's death had actually some meaning and was a rather shocking twist. On the other hand Miria survived by using ridiculous move and Hysteria awakened anyway. What was the purpose of this scene really?

Perhaps, but consider Malak that Yagi has been following a linear progression of villains. We have gone through Yoma, powerful Yoma (Church arc), Awakened Beings, the Abysmal Ones, Abysmal Feeders, Priscilla/Destroyer, and now the 3 FOs. If Yagi continues this progression or scale then I believe it is very likely we could see the DoDs be even stronger in a sense.

If the DoD were AO level, shouldn't they have won the war long ago, especially since they were shown to be cooperative?

@Malak

I could write a story in which you suddenly convince Gooral that the mouth trick was not only possible, but also a brilliant move (by Yagi). I'm sure everyone would accept that as realistic within the context.

BUT what's really funny,is that Miria didn't even completely stand up actually,she didn't go further than getting on her knees.....and she actually didn't run at all!!!!!!
You make it sound like she stood up and ran towards Histy to stab her,lol.
All Miria did was turning in a split second (not completely stood up,just on her knees at best) and stab Histy with the sword anticipating her attack. Miria didn't run at all!You are just seeing something that's not even there just because from the very beginning wanted to complain (even before the chapter was out.....).
And at least that kind of "turn up on her knees with the sword in her mouth" is something that sure as hell is withing Miria's capabilities, it's actually nothing special considering all the things that are canon in Claymore.....

.....to complete that action Miria only need a single instant where Histy dropped her focus,nothing more, so the whole action is in truth 100% belivable since Histy was sure the battle was already over and her attention was clearly very low.
It's not a multi action movement,it's a SINGLE movement!

GAME OVER, Gooral. You lost,lol

I am afraid you are wrong here and you've misread the bodies flow between those 2 pages. On the first Hysteria is stabbed while standing and on the next page both Hysteria and Miria are on there knees. Yet Miria is at the same height level she was vs Hysteria before yet only now is on her knees. Simpliy put this could have only happened if Hysteria collasped forward and Miria followed her down to her knees to keep the sword stuck in her throat so Hysteria couldn't heal the wound until it was fatal.

In other words while Miria didn't fully rise she wasn't on her knees in that first panel but bending her knees to crouch, then took a step back and kneeled as Hysteria fell forward on top of her.

Next even rising to ones knees while grabbing a sword at the same time is at least 2 or 3 movements since she has to move her body and or mouth to grab the sword (let's just assume she can do this fast with yoli for convience sake but it is something I find questionable), rise up while spining her knees behind herself, all while aiming the sword in her mouth. Worse she has to do all this before Hysteria simply needs to stab her since her sword is already raised and ready, no matter how fast/smoothly she does this she has to be faster/smoother then Hysteria whom has postion adavatage over her and is just about as fast but easily has more subtle movements vs Miria using any of her 3 phantoms (now please recall Hysteria could have also dodged or parried too). Even worse is the fact that she can't use her awakened phantom since it has no subtlety of movements to grab the sword then aim is while rising.

Finally calling check would have been more accurate, calling victory assumes way too much when half the forum is debating you.

(...) On the plus side, I suppose I won the argument about Miria being a number 1 in power though... but how come I had to be proven right like this!!?

Yep, you were right. I didn't want it to happen though since I was pretty sure that no matter how Yagi would set this up (short of Miria awakening) it would look strange. After all she was struggling against the twins and said it outright she's inferior to Hysteria (their speed was "roughly the same" but with Hysteria not being in a golden eyes or higher mode). I've been arguing about this from the moment this fight started and that's why the only thing that made sense to me was Miria being defeated.

But seriously, Miria has become more lucky than Clare. Miria's lucky moments:

She half-awakened

She was lucky that Clare was in her team when they fought male AB (anyone other than a single digit and Clare would probably mean their death as we've seen)

She somehow managed to survive by using "every trick in the book" when supposedly she had more difficult tasks than Clare

She survived her encounter with Riguald only thanks to Clare being there (again).

She wasn't killed by other Claymores even though she was helpless against them once Raftela came out.

She miraculously managed to defeat Hysteria

All of this costed her one scar.

And good point about Hysteria talking with a sword in her mouth. As for us agreeing with each other, I think we can handle this shock .

BTW, in the first place I don't really get how Miria managed to pierce through Hysteria in the chest by sacrificing her arm. It's a standard shounen manoeuver that always works (Samurai Champloo, Yuu Yuu Hakusho, Hunter x Hunter) but here it was just poorly done. Heck, earlier Yagi knew how to do it (when Clare sacrificed her arm to make her fall more convincing) but now it's just 'meh'. After all Hysteria would rather prefer not to be stabbed in the chest when all she would gain would be an arm I would think. How did this happen? And could someone explain how did she manage to attach her hand to herself?

@Fermat
Great post. As for Hysteria being injured, Miria had an even bigger handicap. After all she was using her youki to the limits while Hysteria didn't even go golden. Miria was exhausted after a long fight with the twins so I imagine now strain on her body should have been much bigger. But not only she could suddenly become much faster, after all this she could easily attach her arm with an unknown method. She looks like second Priscilla. Someone writing "Miria is too strong" was spot on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fermat

(...) P.S. I'm really looking forward to the awakened forms of the other two, particularly Hysteria's. She'd probably go nuts and kill herself if she had an ugly awakened form.

I could write a story in which you suddenly convince Gooral that the mouth trick was not only possible, but also a brilliant move (by Yagi). I'm sure everyone would accept that as realistic within the context.

We have seen so many unbelivable things in Claymore that getting so worked up 'cause Miria was able to get on her knees holding a sword in her mouth and hitting Histy with a guard completely lowered seems quite pointless imo.
Do i really have to make a list of all the "impossible" things that in Claymore can happen normally to make a point?
What Miria did there is nothing impossible,given that context,not even close to the strangest thing that we have already seen before.

@Nixl

I edited my previous post and added my reply to you there, i tell you since when i finished editing you had already done a new post,so i'm not sure if you saw it.

BTW, in the first place I don't really get how Miria managed to pierce through Hysteria in the chest by sacrificing her arm.

I'm also having a difficult time thinking about just how this happened. Aside from the "lucky" theory, I also figured that Miria could've just aimed at Hysteria's chest and let her arm get cut off. Because of the velocity at which Miria was traveling, Hysteria only succeeded in transforming Miria's sword (and sword arm) into a ridiculously large throwing knife that had enough kinetic energy to pierce her through the chest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooral

But not only she could suddenly become much faster, after all this she could easily attach her arm with an unknown method. She looks like second Priscilla. Someone writing "Miria is too strong" was spot on.

Well, it wasn't shown just how much time elapsed between her miracle victory and Roxanne's torso getting flung in front of her. It could've taken minutes, really, enough time for even offensive warriors to reattach limbs. What cracked me up was how she propped up that arm. It looked like it was floating, with the stumps perfectly aligned while Miria was crouching. It appears Miria has mastered telekinesis during the timeskip as well.