Who can playing as Japan and can sunk few ships in first turn pearl harbour surprise attack? I try many times and none of one can sink any one captial ship! Every time only 2-3 BB serious damage with other on fire. Few times all my planes use bomb only... what the hell is torp planes go???

Do you have the historical first turn and surprise options on (and also no variable first turn deployment, which give a chance at an alert posture)? I just ran through Turn 1 in the grand campaign last night and lost four BBs to bombs and torpedos before Turn 1 even ended, two more are in the 70+ sys damage 50+ float damage range.

Aparently thies is a lot of variance in the outcome of the Pearl Harbor atack, in the Game I am playing now with Historical Turn one set, I had one BB sink, her magizine was hit and she literaly Blew up aparently, all the other ships will live to fight another day and No torpedoes were launced at all.

Who can playing as Japan and can sunk few ships in first turn pearl harbour surprise attack? I try many times and none of one can sink any one captial ship! Every time only 2-3 BB serious damage with other on fire. Few times all my planes use bomb only... what the hell is torp planes go???

Sounds good. My first attempt (as the US) I had 3 BB's SUNK and the rest beat up along with a number of other craft and 75% of Oahu's airpower. Wanna swap?

As Japanesse player Historical first turn and surprise. 4x BBs and 1x dDD. 259 allied air loses. As Allied, same options, 2x BBs (Oklahoma and West Virginia) and 1x DM. 300+ aircraft destroyed all theatre

Aparently thies is a lot of variance in the outcome of the Pearl Harbor atack, in the Game I am playing now with Historical Turn one set, I had one BB sink, her magizine was hit and she literaly Blew up aparently, all the other ships will live to fight another day and No torpedoes were launced at all.

Well, only Arizona was dealt the death blow at PH. Even Oklahoma was raised but it was decided that there was no point in refitting her given her age and class. I remember seeing a picture of the refloated Oklahoma berthed beside Wisconsin at PH...looked like a toy from another age.

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Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

Loaded the big campaign the first time yesterday, to play a bit with Pearl Harbour, always w/o historical first turn, but surprise attack and no variation and no FoW to get precise results for analysis.

Didn't change anything else but the TF1 airwings, mostly let fighters (two squads as escord & LCAP) and dive bombers do strafe attacks (<100ft) against airfields and port, while setting the torp. bombers at 1000ft in the hope that they use some fishes.

The first time it did it this way, they must have been not very surprised - ~30% of the planes went down, and ~60% got damaged, all by AA... However, two BBs and one or two smaller ships went down, with significant damage to several other BBs (unfortunatly, I left Allies to AI, so not so precise results this turn )

In several other attempts with pretty much the same settings to the airwings, I mostly scored 2 BBs and one or two small ships, at least once with additionally 5 BBs with >50% sys. damage (1>90, 1>80), but never again such losses to my airwings (once even with only 2 bombers down )

And finally, I decided to try another attack the second day. In the night, evil AI Allies launched a PT attack against TF1, severly hitting a CV and a CL

Who can playing as Japan and can sunk few ships in first turn pearl harbour surprise attack? I try many times and none of one can sink any one captial ship! Every time only 2-3 BB serious damage with other on fire. Few times all my planes use bomb only... what the hell is torp planes go???

Sounds good. My first attempt (as the US) I had 3 BB's SUNK and the rest beat up along with a number of other craft and 75% of Oahu's airpower. Wanna swap?

I've played turn one six times now with Historical and Surprise turned on. At one extreme I had only 6 BB's even hit, not critically. At the other I had 4 BB's sunk and the other four seriously damaged and will likely lose 3 of them if I attempt to move them anywhere and that strike had quite a few torpedo hits in it.

After try many time but results like I post here. For sure the result, recently few times I play head to head myself and see exactly what damage to US fleet in Pearl Harbour. It just as ZOOMIE1980 says, HIGHLY variable outcomes...

I have run the Pearl strikes about 12 times with the historical 1st turn on and dec 7thh suprise on assuming that if every thing is modeled correctly we should get historical like results.

So far for the most part I have seen historical results on most of them 1-3bbs sunk and 1-2 light vessels several damaged ships. IIRC only 2 Pearl Battleships were not returned to service the Arizona and the Oklahoma.

The Combat model appears to me to be correct luck plays a part in war and the results I have seen appear to be realistic yet random enough for replayability. If not some random ability the game might as well start Dec 8th with historical losses.

There is definately some variance in 1st turn attacks at PH. I usually see 1 BB sunk, and a lot of "that had to hurt", but they will all recover.

Really, there were very FEW historical (complete) losses at PH. Arizona, was the only BB that was never raised, and Oklahoma was written off as a total loss and sent for scrap. All the rest did come back (you can't count Utah, she was a target ship). And the only other ship written off was Oglala.

I'll throw this in regards to PH however...

I think the repair rate (for the facilities) is wasy too fast. It only took 3 days to repair about 60-60-60 damage to the facilities. I'm still reading the historical AARs (available on-line, how cool is that?!), but it seems that 3 days is pretty ambitious to put the place back in order.

My 2 pfennigs. -F-

< Message edited by Feinder -- 7/7/2004 1:29:06 PM >

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"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

Do you have the historical first turn and surprise options on (and also no variable first turn deployment, which give a chance at an alert posture)? I just ran through Turn 1 in the grand campaign last night and lost four BBs to bombs and torpedos before Turn 1 even ended, two more are in the 70+ sys damage 50+ float damage range.

Regards,

- Erik

That's amazing Eric, especially considering how I've out of approx. 13 attempts have had a maximum of one BB going down on 3 occasions (just the first turn though).

Oh, I forgot to add that every run attempt were with historical 1st turn with surprise (I'm Japanese). One thing those who "don't" see BB losses may be missing, is that I have never seen a ship sunk during the combat phase or it's report. The sinking doesn't occur until several phases in the display window have gone through (you have to watch that window to catch them). Of course, if you go into inteeligence that will show you the losses that window did. I think a lot of us, at least early on, are expecting the target will sink as we're watching the combat, like PW did, but it don't appear to work that way.

How did you do that? Your screenprint I mean. I tried an attachment yesterday as a jpg file from a Tojo screenshot and the blasted thing claimed the file was too large (it did have a picture of the Tojo on it if that matters [it wasn't all text in other words]).

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ltfightr

I have run the Pearl strikes about 12 times with the historical 1st turn on and dec 7thh suprise on assuming that if every thing is modeled correctly we should get historical like results.

Sorry to put some water in your wine (a French expression), but the benchmark as to the validity of the model is NOT the historical outcome. The historical outcome itself could be an "extreme" result....

Now I played the thing again, pretty much with the settings above (2x Fighter escort, other Fighters+2x Dive Bomber strafe airports, rest of the DB and all Torpedo Bombers strafe port.

... removed image

How did you do that? Your screenprint I mean. I tried an attachment yesterday as a jpg file from a Tojo screenshot and the blasted thing claimed the file was too large (it did have a picture of the Tojo on it if that matters [it wasn't all text in other words]).

There is a limit to images of 200kB, so you should reduce your image size or quality to upload it here.

and ontopic: running the turn with the same settings as above, except suprise disabled turned out with just a CL sunk, but still some BBs severly damaged (2x90, 4 more >60)

Are any IJN Japs trying to invade Hawaii and sieze Pearl ? Is anyone trying to sieze the oil stocks and machine shops ? Is anyone Launching additional strikes to destroy the oil stocks and machine shops ? If Pearl's oil and machine shops are left intact or perhaps if Hawaii is left in American hands how can the long range PTO outcome result in IJN victory ? Is anyone considering a Rommel DAK-type supply-siezure of Pearl's USN inventories ? Can you flush the USN aircraft carriers out forcing them to defend Pearl by sending in surface bombard units to conduct main gun Hawaiian urban renewal followed-up by a SNLF or other sea borne invasion ? Can the IJN fleet carriers refuel at Pearl if you sieze the Harbor ? Thanks.

There are many who say that the Japanese would have been wise to have attacked with a third strike to destroy the oil storage facilities, machine shops and dry docks at Pearl Harbor. Destruction of these facilities would have greatly increased the U.S. Navy's difficulties as the nearest Fleet facilities would have been several thousand miles east of Hawaii on the West Coast of the States. Admiral Nagumo declined to order a third strike for several reasons.

San Francisco, US-- Between July 1940 and April of 1941, during a petroleum embargo, 9,200,000 barrels of gasoline went to Japan. Navy intelligence identified and tracked eight Japanese tankers during that period. Most loaded up at the docks at Port Costa and delivered the fuel directly to Tokuyama, the main storage facility for the Japanese fleet.