I don't understand this argument. In which way what you have described in points 1 and 2 means that Alonso has massive advantage? As far as I know, they work on improving the F2012, which is the same car for both at this point. They can put in a piece here and there during Friday frees, but they will not put everything new only in one car for the whle season.

What I saw on Melbourne is a very "meaningful comparison between the #1 and #2".

Let's see if I can explain. The car behaves badly, so they make changes for it to behave less badly - using Alonso's telemetry data and input to correct the problems. This means Alonso's problems are getting solved by the team. Only after that Massa is given the car to set up to his liking - he can't simply use the same settings as he's not Alonso clone and has a different way to drive. This in turn will most often lead to bad result as the setup window of tricky cars is very narrow and the optimal setup in this case is Alonso's setup.

Let's see if I can explain. The car behaves badly, so they make changes for it to behave less badly - using Alonso's telemetry data and input to correct the problems. This means Alonso's problems are getting solved by the team. Only after that Massa is given the car to set up to his liking - he can't simply use the same settings as he's not Alonso clone and has a different way to drive. This in turn will most often lead to bad result as the setup window of tricky cars is very narrow and the optimal setup in this case is Alonso's setup.

That would prove Ferrari trust Alonso´ skills over Massa´s and also that Massa has trouble to adapt.

At the end of the day it gives the impression Massa can only do a decent job if he has a perfect car, the worst the car is the biggest the difference between Alonso and Massa is.

At this point i think Massa has no more excuses left, i mean, sometimes, after 2 very bad years, it had to be him and not everything else being the setup, the tyres, the weather...

Those who considers that Alonso & Hamilton had the best car back in 2007 (=Ham in 2008 vs. Kimi/Massa) must subsequently aknowledge the fact that both Kimi & Massa were better drivers than the formers.
Looking at the "rivalry" between Felipe and Fernando starting from 2010 as well as previous achievments of both I am getting amuzed&puzzled more and more.

Which is not an emergency. It might not get him retained for 2013, but would be OK for 2012. The unfortunate aspect for Massa and Ferrari is that it has translated into a few grid positions due to their slip back into the midfield.

Those who considers that Alonso & Hamilton had the best car back in 2007 (=Ham in 2008 vs. Kimi/Massa) must subsequently aknowledge the fact that both Kimi & Massa were better drivers than the formers.Looking at the "rivalry" between Felipe and Fernando starting from 2010 as well as previous achievments of both I am getting amuzed&puzzled more and more.

Haven't we heard this a million times, Alonso never has the best car, even we he joins historic teams with the biggest budgets who always wins championships. But he always, well atleast almost always beats his teammates, if we disregard the only season when he was on equal terms with his teammate and lost to a rookie.

Whatever happened to the most truthful and acknowledge fact that Alonso is the best development driver in F1. Wherever he goes the team wins due to his amazing skills. It's never the car but the superiour skills of Alonsos car building talent that makes the difference. We haven't heard that in a while, have we, but we're still hearing that it's all Alonso and Alonso alone that makes the difference, even if it's in a different disquise. When will this misconception of Alonso beeing such a great driver end? For god sake the only WDC on the grid who won his last WDC later than Alonso is the +40 year old Schumacher. Since Alonso won his last WDC there has been 4 new WDC and counting and it's not like Alonso's been in midfield teams.

When are people going to start realising that Alonso will not win another WDC unless the other competitors will line up with trucks?

And beating teammates, please, how hard is that when your teammate is not only handcuffed but also blindfolded due to teamorders?

But hey, let us all join hands and already now vote him the driver of the year! And if Ferrari can order Massa to intentionally crash in Singapore perhaps we should start lobbying for people to acknowledge Alonso beeing the greatest driver in the history of F1 since he's won on a drivers track like Singapore 3 times.

Thats precisely the point. Ferrari can take care of two drivers. Sometimes, one of the drivers is just better than the other, though. People want to point at the team and blame them for that and its completely unfair.

Also, dont even respond to the garbage that Mr J is spewing out. Pure nonsense.

I believe this thread is useless right now... Nothing to discuss at the moment. Time to close it. Period.

Yes, the debate is useless. The only reason Flippy drives the No6 car is because someone has to. It used to be somewht fun to mock Whiner-baby for his erratic driving but not anymore. That was so bad showing that I cannot remember ever seeing such. Bye bye!!

Driver of the day (as much as I love Perez, the Sauber is a better car) vs Worst Driver of the day (Grosjean deserves some slack, despite punting Schumi). You couldn't make it up. Probably thr most irrelevant thread ever.

Haven't we heard this a million times, Alonso never has the best car, even we he joins historic teams with the biggest budgets who always wins championships. But he always, well atleast almost always beats his teammates, if we disregard the only season when he was on equal terms with his teammate and lost to a rookie.

Whatever happened to the most truthful and acknowledge fact that Alonso is the best development driver in F1. Wherever he goes the team wins due to his amazing skills. It's never the car but the superiour skills of Alonsos car building talent that makes the difference. We haven't heard that in a while, have we, but we're still hearing that it's all Alonso and Alonso alone that makes the difference, even if it's in a different disquise. When will this misconception of Alonso beeing such a great driver end? For god sake the only WDC on the grid who won his last WDC later than Alonso is the +40 year old Schumacher. Since Alonso won his last WDC there has been 4 new WDC and counting and it's not like Alonso's been in midfield teams.

When are people going to start realising that Alonso will not win another WDC unless the other competitors will line up with trucks?

And beating teammates, please, how hard is that when your teammate is not only handcuffed but also blindfolded due to teamorders?

But hey, let us all join hands and already now vote him the driver of the year! And if Ferrari can order Massa to intentionally crash in Singapore perhaps we should start lobbying for people to acknowledge Alonso beeing the greatest driver in the history of F1 since he's won on a drivers track like Singapore 3 times.

Can not remember who he was racing along today. I think it was Dan Riciardo and Bruno into the first corner where Massa was squeezed in a sandwich. Tried to recover in turn two by pushing Bruno of the track. Bit dirty if you ask me because position was already lost in turn two. Seems that he can not accept that he is being overtaken by smaller teams drivers. Nothing has changed from last year. Hope that I won't have to see him for much more longer than this season.

Driver of the day (as much as I love Perez, the Sauber is a better car) vs Worst Driver of the day (Grosjean deserves some slack, despite punting Schumi). You couldn't make it up. Probably thr most irrelevant thread ever.

Those who considers that Alonso & Hamilton had the best car back in 2007 (=Ham in 2008 vs. Kimi/Massa) must subsequently aknowledge the fact that both Kimi & Massa were better drivers than the formers.Looking at the "rivalry" between Felipe and Fernando starting from 2010 as well as previous achievments of both I am getting amuzed&puzzled more and more.

Ah laying aside the Alonso v Hamilton idiocy 2007 & 2008 I recall were the peak years of Ferrari International Assistance.Massa driving was flattered in 2008 because Kimi was totally jaded off with Ferrari and F1. As for Kimi Ferrari never managed to unlock the extra skill level in Kmi that he displayed at McLaren