When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.
(Oscar Wilde)

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:39 PM

Professor Buzzkill, on 27 June 2013 - 04:08 AM, said:

i brought this up a month ago in merc's bengahzi thread. Still dont know what to believe, but its the only theory that adequately explains the repeated stand down orders from the white.house despite drone footage showing the extent of the attack

No, it is not.
The simple and obvious explanation that the Obama government did not want to get anything in the way of their tale of their noble "friends" in Bengazi, which they had supported so enthusiastically with weapons and air support, is quite enough.
The last thing that Obama wanted was the news to get out that they had, in fact, supported Al Quaede and assorted groups. That piece of undesirable news was to be avoided at all cost. And that is why they invented the tale of the "spontaneous" demonstration about a Youtube Mohammed video that nobody had ever heard of, and found a Coptic scapegoat too.

There really is no need to bring in byzantine conspiracy stories, unless you have evidence. Stick with Occams razor.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.
(Oscar Wilde)

Posted 27 June 2013 - 03:43 PM

Babe Ruth, on 27 June 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Colonel

Do you find it implausible for a sitting president to arrange for or be complicit in, a plan to exchange hostages or prisoners?

As Reagan found out, there is no glory in arranging a hostage exchange. In fact, he got lambasted for it. So now the latest conspiracy attempt is that Obama just so much desired to get into a similar mess like Reagan?

Groan...

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.
(Oscar Wilde)

Posted 28 June 2013 - 05:00 AM

coolguy, on 28 June 2013 - 04:49 AM, said:

I believe Obama would do this

Would do WHAT? Allow his ambassador to get killed in order to obfuscate his support for Al Quaeda? Find an innocent scapegoat to railroad? Go to the UN and declare that "there is no future for those who insult islam"?
Yes, he would.
In fact, he did.

Concoct a bizarre conspiracy, in order to arrange a "hostage exchange"? No, he would not. Nobody in his right mind would. That conspiracy theory is on troother moron level.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

I might buy that story. It seems reasonable, except for one thing. While a stand down was issued initially, drones were dispatched to the embassy. I think it was many hours until there was a video feed, but when there was many high level members of the military saw the extent of the attack. For the white house to not even feign concern seems suspicious.

When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.
(Oscar Wilde)

Posted 28 June 2013 - 07:52 AM

Professor Buzzkill, on 27 June 2013 - 11:49 PM, said:

can some one explain rationally how letting an ambassador die in horrendously unnecessary way was better PR then stopping the attack?

Stopping the attack would have meant flying in commandoes to fight against Al Quaeda --- the very same "democracy movement" that Obama had so enthusiastically supported in Libya (and is now supporting in Syria).

Instead, he concocted the story about a "spontaneous demonstration" that got "out of control", which was brought about a Mohammed video on Youtube, for which he then could produce a convenient scapegoat. The narrative being that the poor demonstrators just could not help their enthusiasm, and real culprits are us -- for having the outrageous concept of free speech.

And that narrative had to be kept alive, even if the ambassador had to die for it. And having a sympathetic press on his side, of course helped him. Without the various whistleblowers and a few non-sycophantic news channels like Fox, he would have gotten away with it, too.

Edited by Zaphod222, 28 June 2013 - 07:53 AM.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)

As Reagan found out, there is no glory in arranging a hostage exchange. In fact, he got lambasted for it. So now the latest conspiracy attempt is that Obama just so much desired to get into a similar mess like Reagan?

Groan...

Groan away my friend. Humans are NOTORIOUS for repeating the mistakes of history by ignoring the lessons of history. Obama may have a silver tongue, but he is only human, and has already demonstrated all sorts of unprincipled and unenlightened behavior.

When the gods wish to punish us, they answer our prayers.
(Oscar Wilde)

Posted 28 June 2013 - 02:54 PM

I am no friend of Obama. But the "Obama staged Bengazi" theory does not pass the smell test.
Consider: Even a success of this conspiracy would have meant that this best friends, the wonderful "freedom fighters", which he had been supplying with weapons and air support, would have been outed as jihadist thugs. Talk about counterproductive!

Like in case of the 9/11 troother conspiracy, this one already fails the most basic test: Where is the friggin benefit?

I understand that you are the local conspiracy lover here, but please. Do try Occams Razor sometimes.

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." (Salman Rushdie)