Regardless how much i tried and how long i have lived outside my home country, my English remains non-native and it will...I hear everything when i speak and even when i write...It goes from fresh and jovial with some people to vintage and irritating with others.

I believe it depends on the reader - open-minded or not.Does it truly mean that the Internet is forbidden to foreigners... Sad conclusion for the world wide web...

Please tell me how you feel reading at few mistakes in a post or a content...

Cheers

Stevie_D
—
2012-08-21T12:54:17Z —
#2

What I find much more irritating than mistakes by non-English people are serious mistakes (or just really bad writing) by native English speakers. When reading something that isn't perfect English, it's usually pretty easy to tell whether the author is a native English speaker or not – the style is very different – and I have much more patience with someone who is writing in a foreign language than someone who hasn't made the effort to master their own.

PallaviSingh
—
2012-08-21T13:02:18Z —
#3

Thanks. The conclusion is half encouraging - no one will never think i am native!!! The funny thing is to go to Starbuck and order "chocolate". The lady has 3 options in mind - something tea, something coffee, something chocolate but still she would make me say it 3 times!!!!I still hope i can order a coffee without asking 3 times!

ParkinT
—
2012-08-21T13:45:26Z —
#4

Stevie_D said:

What I find much more irritating than mistakes by non-English people are serious mistakes (or just really bad writing) by native English speakers. When reading something that isn't perfect English, it's usually pretty easy to tell whether the author is a native English speaker or not – the style is very different – and I have much more patience with someone who is writing in a foreign language than someone who hasn't made the effort to master their own.

Absolutely. You practically "took the words right out of my mouth", @Stevie_D

I have witnessed a gradual but continuous degradation in spelling and grammar in America (and on the Internet). There are numerous discussions (and arguments) against the merits of proper spelling and grammar. Although I agree the root issue is 'getting your message across' I am a staunch proponent of correct language usage.The English language (and let me disclaim that I do not speak English. I speak American) possesses the richest vocabulary. This is primarily attributed to the fact that it has 'borrowed' from almost every other language that has existed!! I propose that it is mere laziness to avoid stretching your vocabulary and seeking ways to express yourself more precisely.**steps off soapbox

As is the case with anything, if you are learning English (of course, I just made the point that we ALL are constantly learning English) mistakes are to be expected. And it is easier to be tolerant of mistakes over laziness. There are many very confusing words and uses in English. And numerous [common spelling and grammar mistakes. But, as [URL="http://www.wistful-thinking.com/archives/237"]I have done here](http://www.wistful-thinking.com/archives/237), you should learn ways to overcome the human tendency to err and not be content with "good enough".

FoodLiz
—
2012-09-10T21:01:46Z —
#5

Attitude and patience play a big factor in the listener's role. Ask the listener to be patient and give the permission to ask for clarification as needed. Be honest. Tell them that you are not a native speaker. Invite suggestions should they have any. Take some time to write out the 100 phrases you use most often in you non-native language and ask a native speaker to review and correct them as necessary. Always keep learning and improving.

force
—
2012-09-11T01:25:41Z —
#6

Taking this in another direction: If I'm paying for tech support for a product or service and a representative that is exceedingly difficult to understand comes on the line, yes, I will get annoyed.

However, if you are communicating in informal venues (like a forum or chat room), I have no problem with it.

oddz
—
2012-09-11T04:36:48Z —
#7

Force_Flow said:

Taking this in another direction: If I'm paying for tech support for a product or service and a representative that is exceedingly difficult to understand comes on the line, yes, I will get annoyed.

However, if you are communicating in informal venues (like a forum or chat room), I have no problem with it.

ditto

I hate talking to most indians on the phone. Half the time I can't understand a damn thing they say even though they speak "english". yeah… right. A few weeks ago I had to call Comcast for an issue and I just about wanted to give up. I think that is the gimmick though. Eventually you just get so frustrated that you say f**k it. When I'm calling for a service I pay for I should not have to deal with a language barrier.

Stevie_D
—
2012-09-11T11:46:43Z —
#8

oddz said:

I hate talking to most indians on the phone. Half the time I can't understand a damn thing they say even though they speak "english". yeah… right. A few weeks ago I had to call Comcast for an issue and I just about wanted to give up. I think that is the gimmick though. Eventually you just get so frustrated that you say f**k it. When I'm calling for a service I pay for I should not have to deal with a language barrier.

I generally don't find the language barrier to be too much of a problem when I'm on the phone to people in India ... probably less of a problem than Tyneside, Glasgow or Belfast, which is where a lot of British call centres are based (for anyone not familiar with UK accents, these three are generally accepted to be among the most unintelligible speech patterns known to man). What can be difficult is when there's a cultural barrier rather than just a language barrier. Some things, like IT, are pretty universal – when my router breaks, it doesn't matter if the technical support is in Bradford, Bangalore or Bulgaria (as was actually the case), because it works the same wherever you are. On the other hand, there are some services where you really do need a better understanding of UK life, culture or geography to be able to provide an effective service, no matter how proficient you are at the language.

Lieto
—
2012-09-11T13:12:14Z —
#9

Since i am not a native speaker either i am not getting annoyed.In fact its easier to understand american english or even russian english than lets say Shcoutlaaand' english xD

SmilingAnny
—
2012-09-19T15:00:14Z —
#10

The majority of bloggers are not native English speakers. India and Pakistan are in charge. I guess they can tell us smth new and if there are several small mistakes, ok, let it be

Michael27
—
2012-10-15T13:08:40Z —
#11

Mistakes are not a good sign for any article or writing over the web. An English language speaker or writer may consider that the website team is not serious in their work that is why they have low quality content website. Now clients consider your website as portfolio of your work especially if you are providing web designing or development services or even other online businesses.

SmilingAnny
—
2012-10-15T13:14:57Z —
#12

Michael27 said:

Mistakes are not a good sign for any article or writing over the web. An English language speaker or writer may consider that the website team is not serious in their work that is why they have low quality content website. Now clients consider your website as portfolio of your work especially if you are providing web designing or development services or even other online businesses.

Sorry, but if someone is a cool web developer people don't care about his/her language. That's not the key point

Shyflower
—
2012-10-15T16:06:39Z —
#13

SmilingAnny said:

Sorry, but if someone is a cool web developer people don't care about his/her language. That's not the key point

I disagree. Skill in web development is not enough. If you can't effectively communicate your skills, then you won't succeed since the web is primarily a communications medium. Potential clients see errors on your website and can't help but wonder if the websites you build will also have errors. Although your syntax may differ from that of either a native UK or US writer, if you are misusing words, such as homonyms and synonyms incorrectly, those errors will spell your doom. Other red flags are blatantly poor punctuation, capitalization, run-on sentences, and content inconsistencies. Your clients want to know that their websites will be pristine in appearance. Your opportunity to show them is your own website.

SmilingAnny
—
2012-10-16T07:25:40Z —
#14

Shyflower said:

I disagree. Skill in web development is not enough. If you can't effectively communicate your skills, then you won't succeed since the web is primarily a communications medium. Potential clients see errors on your website and can't help but wonder if the websites you build will also have errors. Although your syntax may differ from that of either a native UK or US writer, if you are misusing words, such as homonyms and synonyms incorrectly, those errors will spell your doom. Other red flags are blatantly poor punctuation, capitalization, run-on sentences, and content inconsistencies. Your clients want to know that their websites will be pristine in appearance. Your opportunity to show them is your own website.

You're absolutely right. If a 'professional' makes many silly mistakes that's awfully bad It's really hard to understand texts and ordinary messages which are written with a lot of mistakes. But I just wanted to say that some native speakers don't know their language quite well and their spelling is disgusting. I guess it doesn't matter where you are from (or what you look like ).

Lieto
—
2012-10-16T07:39:55Z —
#15

Potential clients see errors on your website

Ehm... but content is provided by client, designers dont make things up.

Stevie_D
—
2012-10-16T11:39:29Z —
#16

Lieto said:

Ehm... but content is provided by client, designers dont make things up.

That depends ... some designers do write the content based on notes/briefings from the client, or by taking the client's printed materials and revising them for the web.

Lieto
—
2012-10-17T09:57:07Z —
#17

This is true, however taking responsibility to revise something =/= making a mistake in "lorem ipsum". In the later case one shouldnt really start thinking stuff like "hmm, this designer cant speak english, maybe his design got hidden flaws as well?", that would be counter productive most of the times imo and being counter productive is bad for business =)

Shyflower
—
2012-10-17T15:52:37Z —
#18

Lieto said:

This is true, however taking responsibility to revise something =/= making a mistake in "lorem ipsum". In the later case one shouldnt really start thinking stuff like "hmm, this designer cant speak english, maybe his design got hidden flaws as well?", that would be counter productive most of the times imo and being counter productive is bad for business =)

This question isn't about dummy content like Lorem Ipsum... the question was mistakes in "a post or content". I doubt if many clients these days read through the lorem ipsum to check the Latin.

ralphm
—
2012-10-17T23:21:59Z —
#19

[ot]

Shyflower said:

I doubt if many clients these days read through the lorem ipsum to check the Latin.

Ha ha, this is really embarrassing to say, but the first time a graphic designer sent me a layout to code, it had little decorative text boxes all over it with bits of Lorem Ipsum text (which I'd not heard of at that stage). I delicately tried to convince him that it wasn't a very good idea to hit site visitors with Latin like that, and that it was lousy, non-grammatical Latin anyway. Boy was I embarrassed when I discovered it was placeholder text. At least I gave someone a good laugh.[/ot]

BAMcopywriting
—
2012-10-27T20:36:08Z —
#20

PallaviSingh said:

Hi,

Regardless how much i tried and how long i have lived outside my home country, my English remains non-native and it will...I hear everything when i speak and even when i write...It goes from fresh and jovial with some people to vintage and irritating with others.

I believe it depends on the reader - open-minded or not.Does it truly mean that the Internet is forbidden to foreigners... Sad conclusion for the world wide web...

Please tell me how you feel reading at few mistakes in a post or a content...

Cheers

What a great question. I think it depends on the nature of the article itself, but I can say I've personally suggested not to hire non-native English writers for US English targeted audiences, because there are major gaps in grammar and tone. I can also say that the biggest gripe is how hard it is to find clients who are willing to pay a decent wage for content BECAUSE there are so many overseas writers willing to write for so much less. I mean no offense in calling the results ineffective and low quality, but to write well you should stick to your native language or master the natural flow of a specific language in addition to overall quality copywriting guidelines.

There are certain phrases I see all the time (I am often hired to "repair" content written by a non-native English writer) that are very similar to phrases used in article spinning software. Things like "moreover" which seem to fluff up word count and decrease reability/value.