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Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by Conservative

The question is why was any money taken from Medicare for ACA?? Do you understand what funds Medicare? Any problem with your taxdollars that were to fund YOUR Medicare being taken to fund a program that is not part of Medicare??

They did not take money from Medicare.... instead, the PPACA mandated reforms in Medicare, namely moving from a pay per services model to a pay for results model, that are to create savings in Medicare. The $726B that was consistently talked about in the last election were that anticipated savings of these reforms.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by upsideguy

They did not take money from Medicare.... instead, the PPACA mandated reforms in Medicare, namely moving from a pay per services model to a pay for results model, that are to create savings in Medicare. The $726B that was consistently talked about in the last election were that anticipated savings of these reforms.

Did these cost saving reforms result in lower Medicare taxation?

“The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by Conservative

Please explain why such passion for another entitlement program since there hasn't been an entitlement program that ever cost what it was intended to cost. To base your claims on CBO Estimates shows just how you have been indoctrinated and buy the lies. Why? Are you on the govt. payroll?

Like I said....address your total fail on quality and the ACA, rather than continuing your usual Gish Gallop.

Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by upsideguy

...actually, the PPACA is delivering results in many of the areas promised. Of course the PPACA needs tweaking. All major legislation does. My point, however, was to state its time for the Republicans to realize its here to stay and work to fix what they don't like, as the idea of it ever being repealed is fantasy.

The law is so bad, so toxic Politically, the GOP isn't going to touch it with a 10 ft pole.

Its why the SCs decision on ObamaCare subsidies was a vote in their favor.

It would have forced them to add their names to a law thats so bad that its creators did everything in their power NOT to mention it in the 2014 Midterms.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

You're the one that made the claim. Post a link from a legitimate source. Or, better yet, don't bother, since you already know I'm right.

Originally Posted by Conservative

You people are absolutely amazing, supporting this Administration and liberalism in general. Are you on the left payroll? What do you get out of this passion you have for massive expansion and another entitlement program that will always cost more than intended?

Lets turn it around. Why do you think that nearly all educated or intelligent people are liberals these days? Do you think your theory that it is a massive conspiracy where some nefarious liberal organization is bribing half the country to be liberal actually sounds plausible? Like, seriously, sit and think on that for a second- do you believe it, or is it just something you said for some reason even though you know it isn't real? Does it ever occur to you that the reason people who are smarter than you and who know more about the world than you choose different politics than you do might be because they've got things more figured out than you do? Is it possible that your understanding of what liberals believe is off base? Is there any chance that you maybe don't have accurate information about what policy approaches work best? Or do you think it is more likely that it is a massive conspiracy of millions of people working together to make things suck for some unknown reason?

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by Threegoofs

Like I said....address your total fail on quality and the ACA, rather than continuing your usual Gish Gallop.

We have no idea if there will be quality improvement but history says there will not be any improvement yet you continue to believe what you are told because that is what you want to believe. History does repeat itself especially with liberals and the results are never good.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by tuhaybey

You're the one that made the claim. Post a link from a legitimate source. Or, better yet, don't bother, since you already know I'm right.

Lets turn it around. Why do you think that nearly all educated or intelligent people are liberals these days? Do you think your theory that it is a massive conspiracy where some nefarious liberal organization is bribing half the country to be liberal actually sounds plausible? Like, seriously, sit and think on that for a second- do you believe it, or is it just something you said for some reason even though you know it isn't real? Does it ever occur to you that the reason people who are smarter than you and who know more about the world than you choose different politics than you do might be because they've got things more figured out than you do? Is it possible that your understanding of what liberals believe is off base? Is there any chance that you maybe don't have accurate information about what policy approaches work best? Or do you think it is more likely that it is a massive conspiracy of millions of people working together to make things suck for some unknown reason?

Good question, could be because most feel guilty about making it and forget what it took to get where they are. These people like you think with your heart instead of the brain and totally ignore actual data and results to buy rhetoric. You judge people by your own standards and that isn't reality. For some reason it is always someone else's fault for poor personal choices.

Never claimed to be an intellect but do have a college degree and 35 years of business experience that I will put up against these so called experts any day. I actually created jobs not told others some theory in creating jobs. There are a lot of book smart street stupid people and textbook liberals really don't have a clue about the real world.

I post verifiable numbers and actual results not distorted data and yes I do believe it is a conspiracy theory of a few who play on the minds of millions of good people to spend more in the name of compassion when the only compassion generated is for those implementing the program. Liberalism needs dependent people and the best way to get them is to appeal to their hearts and make them believe they are spending money in the name of compassion. How about some actual compassionate results that don't lead to a 3.9 trillion dollar Federal Govt?

All anyone has to do is look at the entitlement programs of today. Do you have any idea the purpose of SS? It was supposed to be a retirement supplement not sole retirement income. What is it today for far too many, sole retirement income. It also was never intended to be paid since it was to be paid out at 65 and the life expectancy at the time was 62. it is now trillions in unfunded liabilities and served as a slush fund for the federal bureaucrats to buy votes. Think for a change, please

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by Conservative

So prove that money hasn't been taken from Medicare? You people are absolutely amazing, supporting this Administration and liberalism in general. Are you on the left payroll? What do you get out of this passion you have for massive expansion and another entitlement program that will always cost more than intended?

Money is not taken from medicare.
The ACA is bringing future costs of medicare down.

Obamacare does not literally cut funding from the Medicare budget, but tries to bring down future health care costs in the program. Much of this is accomplished by reducing Medicare Advantage, a small subset of Medicare plans that are run by private insurers.

President George W. Bush started Medicare Advantage in hopes the increased competition would reduce costs. But those plans are actually costlier than traditional Medicare. So the health care law reduces payments to private insurers.

Hospitals, too, will be paid less if they have too many re-admissions, or if they fail to meet other new benchmarks for patient care.
The goal is get health care providers to increase their efficiency and quality of care instead of cutting benefits for seniors.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by Conservative

We have no idea if there will be quality improvement but history says there will not be any improvement yet you continue to believe what you are told because that is what you want to believe. History does repeat itself especially with liberals and the results are never good.

No.

There are systems now in place for quality improvement. It's clearly starting to happen.

You clearly showed you are absolutely clueless that there is a strong quality component of the ACA, and I am certain you couldn't even guess what the benchmarks for QI are anyway.

You clearly have absolutely no clue about the ACA beyond what Sean Hannity has told you, so scorn and ridicule should be the appropriate response to any more of your posts.

Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

Re: Supreme Court Upholds Obama Health Care Subsidies[W:700]

Originally Posted by tuhaybey

No money was taken from Medicare to fund the ACA. What is mixing you up is that the ACA saves Medicare money- it slows the rate of increase of the cost of healthcare and subsidies offset some of the need for Medicare. Some Republican politicians tries to spin that as if the ACA cut the budget for Medicare for a while, but it wasn't true. Stranger still, Republicans suddenly arguing that cutting Medicare is a bad thing is totally ridiculous. They've spent decades trying to cut Medicare lol.

Well, it wasn't simply Republicans that were trying "to spin that as if the ACA cut the budget for Medicare for awhile", it was the CBO in their early estimates of the costs of the PPACA when they wrote:

The other provisions related to health care and revenues will reduce budget deficits by an estimated $1,252 billion over that 10-year period—including $520 billion in revenues, mostly from new taxes and fees, and$732 billion in outlay savings for Medicare and other federal health care programs (see Figure 1). Those outlay savings reflect the net effect of some provisions that will reduce direct spending—such as lower payment rates in Medicare

Of course, the "savings" and "deficit reduction" of the PPACA disappeared as later CBO estimates show. Currently the law will cost $140 billion a year. The "cuts" that were supposed to take place in Medicare were to be cuts in payments but Congress, as most expected, cancelled those cuts. Smoke and Mirrors. Medicare spending actually grew by 25.3% over the past 5 years, which is a greater increase that the 18.9% increase in private insurance and 20.2% increase in overall health care spending.