tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post7234644846796366063..comments2016-03-09T11:32:05.283-05:00Comments on GROGNARDIA: RuneQuest's Appendix NJames Maliszewskihttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00341941102398271464noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-62073646969836557012010-03-31T11:48:46.447-04:002010-03-31T11:48:46.447-04:00&quot;Frankly, I don&#39;t care at all what Joe Bl...&quot;Frankly, I don&#39;t care at all what Joe Blow Game Designer #727626 reads in his spare time, you know?&quot;<br /><br />I do! <br /><br />An Appendix N isn&#39;t just a random list of books -- it&#39;s a list of books that have significance to that particular product. Either as influences on it or as potential extensions of the ideas described therein.G. Benedictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285645317925993821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-54524094481253386982010-03-31T05:41:40.745-04:002010-03-31T05:41:40.745-04:00I must say, I&#39;m a little skeptical.
I mean, I...I must say, I&#39;m a little skeptical.<br /><br />I mean, I cared when capital-G Gygax did it, but the inclusion of an &quot;Appendix N&quot; in his imitator&#39;s works always seemed like pretension on their part that their own influences could be nearly as relevant.<br /><br />Frankly, I don&#39;t care at all what Joe Blow Game Designer #727626 reads in his spare time, you know?Will Mistrettahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18403399118961902073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-65127513499106972812010-03-28T22:42:09.505-04:002010-03-28T22:42:09.505-04:00Old Traveller did not have an Appendix N but Mongo...Old Traveller did not have an Appendix N but Mongoose has resurrected the idea in some of their supplements. I think, it is the generic nature of Traveller, that the designers never wanted Traveller to be something other than a toolbox for people to create SF adventures.<br /><br />For the more I look over some the old magazines...I see the real tension between keeping Traveller pure (no set Campaign) and what would be later called the Imperial Campaign (or OTU). This is probably explains some of Traveller&#39;s longevity...it that as new fiction arises...Traveller provides the right tools for adaptation rather than being anchored in one sub-genre.Refereehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13766356281154069754noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-679605279179146182010-03-28T02:09:39.349-04:002010-03-28T02:09:39.349-04:00Hrm, Traveller doesn&#39;t have a bibliography, no...<i>Hrm, Traveller doesn&#39;t have a bibliography, not even a list of inspirations.</i><br /><br />Traveller &quot;back doored&quot; in an inspirational reading/watching list by way of the literary characters detailed in <i>1001 Characters</i> and <i>Citizens of the Imperium</i>. It&#39;s not an exhaustive list (for instance, there are no characters listed from Heinlein, Piper, or Andre Norton even though I&#39;m certain all three of them were key inspirations, moreso than many of the names that are on the list) but it&#39;s a pretty good start. Here&#39;s the works cited:<br /><br />Supplement 1 list:<br /><br />Edgar Rice Burroughs&#39; John Carter of Mars series<br />The Lensman Series by E.E. &quot;Doc&quot; Smith<br />The Deathworld Trilogy by harry Harrison<br />The Dumarest Saga by E.C. Tubb<br />At the Core and other stories of Known Space by Larry Niven<br /><i>Starwell</i> and <i>The Thurb Revolution</i> by Alexei Panshin<br />The Flandry Series by Poul Anderson<br />The Demon Princes novels by Jack Vance<br /><i>The Stars, My Destination</i> by Alfred Bester<br /><br />Supplement 4 list:<br /><br /><i>Star Wars</i> by Gene[sic] Lucas<br /><i>The Stainless Steel Rat</i> by Harry Harrison<br /><i>Sword and Sceptre</i> and <i>The Mercenary</i> by Jerry Pournelle<br />The Sector General series by James White<br />The Retief series by Keith Laumer<br /><i>Star Trek</i><br /><i>The Stars, Like Dust</i> by Isaac AsimovT. Fosterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01889179660165006042noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-87379500038055304712010-03-28T00:42:26.844-04:002010-03-28T00:42:26.844-04:00Yes, ever since I read Runequest&#39;s listing I&#...Yes, ever since I read Runequest&#39;s listing I&#39;ve liked it, and it gives more info than the simple listing in the DMG. B - Weapons Defenintions is also good.<br /><br />I don&#39;t quite get why there&#39;s a tendency that a RPG must only have a list of *just* books. If something else also influenced the game, please list it! Films have been around since what, 1900, tv since 1950, music since the dawn of time. Why must only books be an influence on a game of fantastic imaginations? I&#39;ll take inspiration where I find it, purity of the turf be damned.<br /><br />For example I wish D&amp;D had listed Hammer, Ray Harryhausen etc. films. In contrast GURPS Horror not only listed influential works (and of various media), it had notes on how each work was influential to GURPS horror, its place in the genre and use for gaming. Easily as useful as the rest of the book, esp. pre-World Wide Web days.<br /><br />As for some other RPGs with similar lists, off the top of my head:<br />All Flesh Must Be Eaten<br />Burning Wheel<br />Shock: Social Science Fiction<br />Panty Explosion<br />Sorcerer<br /><br />And many had inspiration pages (not technically lists but still useful)<br />Day After Ragnarok<br />3:16<br />Pendragon<br /><br />As well as White Wolf, most of the Forge, Story etc. type games are rather keen on showing their influences so I don&#39;t think a bibliography or whatever is indicative of any &quot;school&quot;. Just geeks being geeks.<br /><br />Hrm, Traveller doesn&#39;t have a bibliography, not even a list of inspirations. But it does mention playing out...science fiction movies! Oh noes! New school! :P And its one game where lists might have helped in the core book.Gibbering Ghoulhttp://openid.aol.com/gibberingghoulnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-6204938883855160442010-03-27T20:33:58.311-04:002010-03-27T20:33:58.311-04:00Most White Wolf games have a bibliography that cov...Most White Wolf games have a bibliography that covers books, music, and comics as well as film.<br /><br />Another interesting point about Runequest was the presence of other games and the SCA on their list (although the Perrin conventions were heavily influenced by the later).Herbhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02486803457210325703noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-18178144462657391732010-03-27T14:05:48.814-04:002010-03-27T14:05:48.814-04:00The appendix at the back of Dragon Warriors book 6...The appendix at the back of Dragon Warriors book 6 (the British D&amp;D)provided my introduction to good fantasy, Lieber, Vance, Moorcoock, LeGuin etc. It also included some historical references possibly reflecting the fat that the authors played a lot of RQ.Ruddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12174843939252395797noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-81171476614236149482010-03-27T13:31:40.621-04:002010-03-27T13:31:40.621-04:00I agree whole heartedly. Maybe some publishers got...I agree whole heartedly. Maybe some publishers got weird with supporting authors or books because of their competitive business associations or out of a desire not to offend anyone based on material others did put out. Who knows?<br /><br />It is a great homage to add an Appx N. I even put one on my Gygax Legendarium website (still under construction). It was only proper.<br /><br />Ciao!Grendelwulfhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05510186079386732858noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-37438877986807260992010-03-27T12:08:19.539-04:002010-03-27T12:08:19.539-04:00I always love to see a bibliography in a RPG or pa...I always love to see a bibliography in a RPG or particularly a sourcebook. Strangely enough I didn&#39;t notice particularly that RQII&#39;s bibliography was Appendix N even though I wrote a detailed <a href="http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/14/14573.phtml" rel="nofollow">review</a> of it at RPG.net. I was probably more focused on the game content though.<br /><br />I remember an earlier post here made me come up with my own <a href="http://comment-deleted.blogspot.com/2009/06/my-appendix-n.html" rel="nofollow">Appendix N</a>. I might go and revisit that now and include commentary and non-fiction sources.Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11587938750309743961noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-11872388215861373622010-03-27T11:54:08.058-04:002010-03-27T11:54:08.058-04:00I can remember a time when I looked through every ...I can remember a time when I looked through every RPG I bought for a bib, I think adding an appendix N to all your products is a fine idea.Aoshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00145284080419502886noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-27803112624645778512010-03-27T11:51:20.565-04:002010-03-27T11:51:20.565-04:00I think it would be amusing to have an &quot;Appen...I think it would be amusing to have an &quot;Appendix N,&quot; without appendices A-M, but I&#39;m odd that way.<br /><br />security word: &quot;malkato,&quot; the name of an evil kitty wizard.Anthonyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01254215329246851683noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-22553759876012146552010-03-27T11:34:05.010-04:002010-03-27T11:34:05.010-04:00&quot;I&#39;m going to make a point of trying to i...&quot;I&#39;m going to make a point of trying to include an Appendix N in any RPG project I write from now on.&quot; <br /><br />Makes sense to me.G. Benedictohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285645317925993821noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-36089928336284314452010-03-27T11:31:42.045-04:002010-03-27T11:31:42.045-04:00As I recall, the back of the Arduin Adventure has...As I recall, the back of the Arduin Adventure has a biblography section as well.crowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03066821931343968827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-41095662851660838102010-03-27T10:35:56.051-04:002010-03-27T10:35:56.051-04:00Well, GURPS for example, includes huge bibliograph...Well, GURPS for example, includes huge bibliographies (IMHO it&#39;s the RPG that has more bibliographies.<br /><br />I only have my 4th edition manuals handy, but GURPS Fantasy has 5 pages of bibliography (Sections: Fact and speculation, Critical Studies, Folklore, mythology and Classics, Fiction, Film, Television, Comics Games and GURPS Third Edition, you can check it at this address http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/books/fantasy/bibliography.html) and most GURPS supplements include extensive bibliographies. In fact, the recent PDF only GURPS Gun Fu not only includes a very nice bibliography/filmography, but it&#39;s a commented bibliography/filmography, briefly stating important details, and how to model them.<br /><br />As an example, here&#39;s what appears for Terminator II:<br />Terminator 2: Judgment Day (James Cameron, 1991). The T-800 displays the Army of One perk, firing a Colt M79 grenade launcher (High-Tech, p. 142) and a Hawk MM1 grenade launcher (High-Tech, p. 143) one-handed, and man-packing a GE M134 helicopter minigun. In addition, he shows Cross-Trained (Cinematic; every specialization in his files) and One-Armed Bandit (Shotgun), the latter with a sawed-off Winchester Model 1887 (High-Tech, p. 105). In both the original The Terminator (James Cameron, 1984) and the sequel, the T-800 exhibits Connoisseur (Guns). He also displays Akimbo (Rifle and Shotgun) and Mounted Shooting (Automobile/Shotgun and Motorcycle/Shotgun).<br /><br />I absolutely love bibliographies. I&#39;ve discovered more than a good book on RPG bibliographies (I was introduced to Fritz Leiber, Michael Moorcok and Glenn Cook by RPG bibliographies, for example), and I&#39;m sad that they&#39;re not more prevalent.Antoni Tenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09397927739954234653noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7487871339000666216.post-1265082776719299562010-03-27T10:27:13.970-04:002010-03-27T10:27:13.970-04:00&quot;Appendix N&quot; isn&#39;t the problem, it&#...&quot;Appendix N&quot; isn&#39;t the problem, it&#39;s getting Richard to support appendices A-M...Bobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04563075580066984380noreply@blogger.com