1) According to Ewan MacColl: "This saga of a rough weekend in Scotland's most popular holiday resort is based on a country song, The Tinker's Weddin', written by William Watt, a weaver born at West Linton, Peeblesshire, in 1792. The parody followed soon after as a music-hall piece and has been popular ever since."

That implies that the song dates back to around 1800 - can anyone confirm this? I can't find anything on the probable date of origin other than the above quote.

I'm also confused by some of the lyrics:

2) The first line, "One Hogmanay at Glesca Fair".

Glasgow Fair is in July, but Hogmanay is December 31st. The subsequent line "We wandered through the Broomielaw through wind and rain and sleet and snaw" corroborates the idea that it was in winter, but almost no one would have gone to Rothesay for a day out at that time of year. Was this juxtaposition of Hogmanay and Glasgow Fair meant to be a joke? If so it seems like a very obscure joke to me, unlike the other jokes in the song, which are all obvious. Is there any other possible explanation for it?

3) The last line of the first verse, "We got the length o' Rothesay O".

What does "We got the length of" mean in this context? Given the rest of the verse, one would expect it to mean something like "We got the boat to Rothesay-o" but I don't see how "length" could mean "boat". Does the word "length" have an unusual meaning in old Scots?

Think this song is in Norman Buchan's 101 Scottish Songs or The Scottish Folk Singer and it will probably have some info -- I don't have time to check at the moment! However I'll try to answer some of your Qs aff the tap i' ma heid (off the top of my head) 1,2 Hogmanay at the Glesca Fair - is just a joke, like a children's rhyme where things are all upside down. This is a bunch of drunks havin; a weekend on the skite -- sounds like some / all of them were sogers (soldiers) -- 'regiment at Barnhill' - that barracks is long gone, last remnants of name is a railway station on north side of Glasgow!So it will be quite old- - unless it was a music hall song?

wandering through the Broomielaw in rain and sleet etc - - again a joke, it was probably in the summer at Glasgow Fair -- last fortnight of July. (Each area had its own fair fortnight when the factories and shipyards shut up shop - Clydebank is first fortnight of July I think etc)

3'Got the length of Rothesay-O' just means they travelled the distance to Rothesay. If you were discussing a journey that is quite a common expression, 'we got the length of Inverness before we had to charge up the electric car'(!)

4 The drunk guy is challenging someone/anyone to a fight - think back to the school playground, a circle of watchers and 'eggers on' surround the two pugilists. He is asking them to clear the room to make space then form a ring within which the fight (I'll fecht ye)will take place (in the version below it is I'll kill ye!)

The Comet was the first steam boat, invented/constructed by James Watt at Port Glasgow -- I can't remember the date but I think people were still travelling across the Firtch of Clyde in pre steam days on sail boats -- tho probably Rothesay, Dunoon etc had not developed into holiday towns till after the establishment of steam travel! If William Watt was born in 1792 he would only be 8 in 1800 so unlikely to be writing that type of song till perhaps 1822 or later?

Last Hogmanay at the Glesca Fair, There was me, masel' and sev'ral mair And we a' resolved tae hae a terr, And spend the nicht in Rothesay-O We wandered thro' the Broomielaw, Thro' wind and rain and hail and snaw An' at forty meen-its efter twa ' we got the length o' Rothesay-O!

A-hirrum a doo a doo a day A-hirrum a doo ma daddy-O A-hirrum a doo a doo a day - The day we went tae Rothesay-O!

A sodger lad ca?d Ru?glen Wull, Wha?s regiment?s lying at Barnhill Gaed aff wi a tanner tae get a gill In a public hoose in Rothesay-O His regimentals done the trick - He was apprehended gey and quick Baith him and the whisky got the nick , On the day we went tae Rothesay ?O

In search o ludgins we did slide, To find a place whaur we could bide; There was eichty-twa o us inside A single end in Rothesay-O! We a? lay doon tae tak oor ease, When one o? the boys began tae sneeze ? An? he waukened hauf a million fleas in a single end in Rothesay ?O!

There was several different kinds o? bugs, Some had feet like dyers clugs An they sat oan the bed and cocked their lugs An? cried ?Hurrah for Rothesay ?O!? Says I ?I think it?s time tae slope!? So we went and jined the Band o? Hope Bit the polis widnae let us stoap ? Anither hoor in Rothesay-O

Subject: RE: Origins: The Day We Went to Rothesay-oFrom:AcmeDate: 06 Nov 17 - 08:59 PM

Gallus,

I went through that first stanza and added the ascii code for apostrophes - are they in the correct places? The source code text for this shows the question marks only, I can't see what they were supposed to be. I can go in and add the rest, or if you send me an EMAIL (not a PM) to Maggie@mudcat.org and paste the proper text in there it should come through regular email and I can fix it in your post.

One Hogmany at Glesca Fair, There was me, mysel' and sev'ral mair, We a' went off to hae a tear An' spend the nicht in Rothesay, O, We wandered thro' the Broomielaw, Thro' wind an' rain an' sleet an' snaw, And at forty minutes after twa, We got the length o' Rothesay, O.

Chorus: A dirrum a doo a dum a day, A dirrum a doo a daddy O, A dirrum a doo a dum a day, The day we went to Rothesay, O.

A sodger lad named Ru'glen Will, Wha's regiment's lyin' at Barra Hill, Gaed off wi' a tanner to get a gill In a public hoose in Rothesay, O. Said he 'I think I'd like to sing' Said I 'Ye'll no' dae sic a thing' He said 'Clear the room and I'll mak' a ring And I'll fecht them all in Rothesay, O.

Chorus

In search of lodgins we did slide, To find a place where we could bide; There was eighty-twa o' us inside In a single room in Rothesay, O. We a' lay doon to tak' our ease, When somebody happened for to sneeze, And he wakened half a million fleas In a single room in Rothesay, O.

Chorus

There were several different kinds of bugs, Some had feet like dyer's clogs, And they sat on the bed and they cockit their lugs, And cried 'Hurrah for Rothesay, O ! 'O noo', says I, 'we'll have to 'lope' So we went and joined the Band O'Hope, But the polis wouldna let us stop Another nicht in Rothesay, O.

This, From 'Folk Songs of Britain to Davie Stewart's version Jim Carroll

7. ROTHESAY-O, sung by Davy Stewart, (accompanying himself on the accordion), Dundee, Angus; recorded by Alan Lomax. The text is a nineteenth century lower-class music-hall creation. The tune, with its ostinato-variative structure and double-stamp endings, is much older, and very characteristic of the kind of melody used by travellers, tramps, itinerant labourers, seamen and other 'up?rooted' men over the past five hundred years. The tune became widely known early in the nineteenth century, when it was applied to a poem by the weaver-poet William Watt (1792-1859), called The Tinklers' Waddin'.

[In June when broom in bloom was seen And bracken waved fu' fresh and green And warm the sun wi' silver sheen The hills and glens did gladden

Ae day upon the Border bent The tinklers pitch'd their gipsy tent And auld and young wi' ae consent Resolved to hauda waddin'-o

They drank, they danced, they swore, they sang, They quarrelled and ?greed the hale day long, And the wranglin? that rang among the throng Wad match the tongues o? Babel O.]

Davy Stewart, a travelling man, has sung his way around Scotland and Ireland, busking at cinema and football queues and public houses. His strident voice and unconventional accordion-playing create an arresting and magical effect.

1. Last Hogmanay in Glasgow Fair Me and mesel' and several mair All gaed off to hae a wee tear To spend the nicht in Rothesay-O.

2. We started frae the Broomielaw, Baith hail and sleet and rain and snow. Forty minutes after twa, We went the length of Rothesay-O.

Chorus: A-durrum-a-doo-a-doo-a-day A-durrum-a-doo-a-daddy-o, A-durrum-a-doo-a-doo-a-day, The nicht we went tae Rothesay-O.

3. There was a lad called Ru(ther) glen Will Whose regiment's lying at Barron Hill Gaed off wi' a tanner to get a gill Before we went to Rothesay-O Says he: I think I'd like to sing Says I: Ye'll nae dae sic a thing I'll clear the room and I'll mak' a ring And I'll fecht them all in Rothesay-O

5. In search of lodgings we did slide To get a place where we could bide; There was eighty-twa of us inside A single room in Rothesay-O.

Chorus:

6. We all lay down to get our ease. When somebody happened for to sneeze And they wakened half a million fleas In a single room in Rothesay-O.

Chorus:

7. There were several different types of bugs. Some had feet like dyer's clogs. An' they sat on the bed an cockit their lugs. An' cried: "Hurrah for Rothesay-O!"

8. "O noo," says I, "We'll have to slope" So we went and joined the Band o' Hope, But the police wouldn't let us stop Another nicht in Rothesay-O.

Paddle-steamers - and trips doon the watter - were a particular feature of life in Glasgow. From Wikipedia;

The Charlotte Dundas was the first practical steamboat, in that it demonstrated the practicality of steam power for ships. The first sailing was on the canal in Glasgow on 4 January 1803, with Lord Dundas and a few of his relatives and friends on board.

Henry Bell's PS Comet of 1812 inaugurated a passenger service along the River Clyde in Scotland. [Comet] started a rapid expansion of steam services on the Firth of Clyde, and within four years a steamer service was in operation on the inland Loch Lomond.

On the Clyde itself, within ten years of Comet's start in 1812 there were nearly fifty steamers, and services had started across the Irish Sea to Belfast and on many British estuaries. By 1900 there were over 300 Clyde steamers.

Thanks everyone, especially Gallus Moll and Jim Carroll. I've never heard "the length of" used in this way before and am intrigued to discover that the expression is still in common use.

So it would seem that the song probably dates from around 1830 or so? And that the tune is far older.

With regard to your apostrophes being converted to question marks (in both your posts), are you using Macs? I think the Mac uses a different character set than Windows, so this could possibly explain it? Does the conversion to question marks happen when you preview or only after posting?

Anyway I have a couple more questions about the lyrics of the song.

Ru'glen Will's regiment is at Barnhill in some versions and Barron Hill in others - were these two spellings for the same barracks or two different barracks? Or is Barnhill the correct spelling and Barron Hill a phonetic rendering of how it would have been pronounced?

"In search of lodgins we did slide" - I've never heard "slide" used in this way before. Does it mean "wander"?

think a tanner was sixpence in old money (LSD - pre decimal) - eg twelve and a tanner was 12 and 6 pence (bloody hell, I've forgotten how to write that - was it 12/6?) so - the gill would have cost half a shilling- - think that is 5p in current decimal money?!

Not certain about 'slide' - canny find my Scots Dictionary at the moment! My head just makes sense of what I am singing, I see the action in a mental video -- so I dinna fash masel aboot analysing the individual word meanings*, just visualise them sorta slopin' aboot, slidin' alang, pished oot therr skulls seekin' a bed an' tryin' tae look sober!

(*tho it is worth doing with a Hamish Henderson song eg Freedom Come A' Ye - the depth of meaning in some of his phrases is stunning!)

I must look up to check if there were Barnhill Barracks -- I know there were and still are remains of Maryhill Barracks and there's a distant memory of barracks near Glasgow Cross, a bit more to the east near the Lady Well.. there is definitely a Barn Hill station and I think the surrounding area might be called that too?

(NB when I am typing I am using apostrophes and question marks- and I tyhink they will appear correctly? Problem with the song was I copied and pasted it - -then messed about with it a bit! And I can't remember if I previewed or not!