"He's really fast and strong. Amara, he just showed out today. I feel like he's really being comfortable. I told him, 'It's football, man. It's just a faster pace.' And he did it."

And:

"I quizzed him last night to make sure he was on his Ps and Qs. He asks a lot of questions, but he did a great job.His head is spinnin', just like all the other freshman. Asking questions. But he's a great kid."

I agree with that, but I meant it's the position group on our current roster that needed the help, not the position group where freshmen can most easily contribute, although they're both true. It's nice that one of the position groups that was neglected the last couple years won't take such a step back. We'll see what happens with the OL.

are we already discounting that Lewan will NOT be back? I would think that as close as Hoke has brought these Teams/Recruiting Classes, many players are opting to stay +1 more year than leaving early... Especially the guys who you see (at least the general ann arbor public) around town together... I'm not really worried about OL or DL from 2013 on, assuming guys like Pipkins, Magnuson get some game action this season between depth during series or mop up duty...

I'm hoping Hoke eventually has a roll-over every year liek the Bama's, LSU's, Wisconsin's in terms on OL/DL lines....

I think you're right that the 2013 OL will be the worst we'll have for a while, but if Lewan stays, we're fine. If he doesn't, we'll have the most important spot, LT, sewn up with 5th yr SR Schofield at least. I expect Miller to star at C, and he got some good reviews at the end of last year. The other three spots will be comprised of Bryant, Kalis, Bars, Magnuson, Braden, and maybe even Burzinski, Bosch(EE) or Dawson. It will be a step back, but it won't be terrible, and it sets us up for a killer 2014.

Ii agree about 2013, but not 2014. In 2014, we'll have four returning starters, the talents 2012 guys will be in their third year, our super talented 2013 class will be in their second, and we'll still have Miller and Bryant in their fourth years. An OL of Magnuson-Kalis-Miller-Bosch-Braden would be very good, with a second unit of LTT-Bryant-Kugler-Dawson-Fox that could probably start too. I didn't even list Blake Bars or walk-ons Glasgow or Gibbs at all.

Point is, of all th talent we'll have in 2014, whoevers wins the starting jobs will be very good.

I get hat you're saying, but my point isn't that I'm relying on one guy like Fisher being good (who wasn't even ranked that highly anyway) it's that we'll have so many highly rated guys that some of them are bound to be good. There are always busts, but when you recruit a lot of highly rated guys, it's very unlikely that most of them are busts.

I'm not saying it's guaranteed, but based on what we know it's likely that 2014 is a good year for the OL.

WolvinLA2, did you mean to type "start" rather than "star"? You posted:

"I think you're right that the 2013 OL will be the worst we'll have for a while, but if Lewan stays, we're fine. If he doesn't, we'll have the most important spot, LT, sewn up with 5th yr SR Schofield at least. I expect Miller to star at C, and he got some good reviews at the end of last year..."

It is a run-oriented offense, but I highly doubt we will frequently utlize two TEs given our lack of talent and depth there. I would assume that we are in more receiver-heavy sets rather than double TE sets, and therefore it's crucial to have qualtiy receiver depth.

I'm not disagreeing with you on most of your points, but I do think that we probably won't emphasize TEs in this years offense making the need for receivers more crucial.

I wasn't talking about last year, I'm talking about this year. Last year's talent at TE was much better than this year; Koger was a proven player (and could easily have been a decent NFL prospect had his development been different) and Watson was at least somewhat competant. Compare that to Brandon Moore, who has basically done nothing yet, and everyone behind him, who actually have done nothing yet.

I would only expect to see a lot of two TE sets if A.J. Williams comes in ready to play right away.

Do we really need a game-breaking WR? Well, Carter played in a run-oriented offense, probably even more run-oriented than what we will see in 2012. And having him was a huge element in the success of those teams, and meant the difference between winning and losing some games. So, yes, if we want to beat the really good teams, we sure could use a game-breaking WR.

I agree that freshman WRs can contribute substantially which is interesting, because in the NFL wide receiver is generally regarded as a position where rookies struggle in their first year. Only six rookie WRs in the past 20 years have topped 1000 yards, and no one since Colston in 2006, even as the NFL's become a league dominated by passing. Maybe it speaks to the complicated nature of NFL passing games or to the regular turnover mandated by college football.

Other than as a blocker where we don't really need him to make much of an impact (have experienced guys), I would think most of what he can do can be shown without pads. Can you think of a guy who could get open and catch the ball in shorts but couldn't do it on the field?

It's not all about that. It's about getting off of press coverage, running after the catch, etc.

And yes, I've seen guys who could get open without pads...and they disappeared somewhat once they put pads on. Now those are high school kids (since I don't get to see many unpadded practices for college teams), but there's still a difference.

Again, this is nothing specific about Darboh. It's just a general idea that we shouldn't read too much into unpadded practice reports.

I think the point others were trying to make (partially a result of boring offseason is boring) is that looking good and standing out without pads on is better than not looking good and standing out without pads on. Does it mean he's destined for success this season? no. Does it mean he's moving in the right direction? sure.

But if there's one position where playing without pads is more telling than others, it might be WR. If he can pick up the playbook, the playcalls, and run quick, crisp routes, that's a very good sign. Outside of blocking, a WR doesn't use his pads much besides getting tackles.

It's also a good sign when our heaviest WR is looking good without pads on.

Clearly you don't know anything. I mean, come on, we have the NFL Combine and those guys run around in their underwear for that thing. How a player performs at the combine is by far the single greatest indicator of how good said player will ultimately be. The same can be said helmets and shorts two-a-days.

Even if everyone looks good without pads it is still possible to stand out above the rest. No one is claiming "ZOMG FRESHMAN ALL BIG TEN!!!" They are just noting that compared to others, Darboh had a nice day on the field. I'll take Denard and Roundtree as credible sources, and although this was the first day of fall practice, it doesn't mean they havn't thrown the football around before.

They're more relevant than dunk contests and home run derbies, for sure. They can make a world of difference for the relationship between QB and receiver, especially for receivers transitioning into new offenses. Receivers don't work on route timing with the threat of being hit until after they've mastered it in the summer. If you can't do it without pads, you can't do it at all.

I think you started the polarization of the commentary by saying that Tree's accolades of AD were irrelevant. If you had made a comment that was a little less black-or-white, maybe others might not react in similar fashion. Right now we're all looking for little tid bits to get excited about, and Tree's comments about AD are just that.

They are somewhat irrelevant, because he was commenting about an activity that's somewhat irrelevant.

It's like someone complimenting Harold Miner's performance in the slam dunk competition. It's great that Miner could dunk and everything, but how good was he at playing basketball? Not very.

Again, that doesn't mean I expect Darboh to be a bust. It's just that day one doesn't matter. All they're doing on day one is working on learning the playbook, alignments, formations, working into shape, etc.

This is my last comment on the topic because that's pretty much all I have to say. I'm already repeating myself, so it's not worth continuing.

about Pop Warner and Middle School football. The coaches make pre-conceived judgements during no-pad conditioning, and then the pads go on and they find out the guy who looked great in conditioning is afraid to hit, tackle, or get hit and tackled. But, since the guy looked so good without pads, they keep trying for half a season before they figure it out.

This is how the Kovacses of the world are missed until they get their one shining moment to show you what they have.

This is great news, of course, and I think it is easier to make an impact early at WR so long as he can learn the plays and block well enough. This is a position group with some questions going in but also with some capable hands as well, so if Darboh can provide a boost this season here and there, that definitely helps. I also think that it is great that he is asking questions of players like Roundtree - it would seem then that not only is he here, but he is motivated to learn and contribute.

needs him, Robinson or Gardner to step up as a big field deep threat. However, this is after ONE practice, not a few. Hopefully three weeks from now we are hearing the same great stuff for Darboh. As it's been said it's a position of need and a position where a FR can have a great impact.

And some people *cough* you *cough* need to learn more about tact and being respectful of others. As I said, we're all football starved, practice is starting, we're all wondering about the new players coming in, and we're excited by positive comments coming from veterans.

Way to take a big runny crap on our collective parade. Why the fuck do you care if we get excited about Tree's positive comments? Do it effect you in any way? Have you, unbenounced to the rest of us, been appointed the Guardian of MGoBlog users excitement?

I agree with Magnus. The data just isn't sufficient to know much about Darboh, at least yet.

However . . .

Between Darboh, and Chesson, and QB/WR Gardner, I think we are going to be better off at receiver than many have anticipated. WR & RB are the two positions where you regularly see significant immediate freshmen impact. I also have wanted to see Gardner move to WR for some time. This is gambling, because of QB depth, but I'd rather have Hoke and Borges be aggressive rather than have Gardner languish on the bench. Furthermore, having Denard and Gardner on the field at the same time opens up trick play possibilities galore that will be difficult to defend. I am waiting for variations on flea flickers and backward passes, with Denard becoming a receiver, etc.

My concern this year is more for both the OL & DL. We are way too thin both lines, and I really think it will be at least 2013 and probably 2014 before there is sufficient depth. However, I also agree with another observation made by Magnus and others: with the incoming OL classes, we are going to provide great QB protection and lanes for whoever is at running back.

I'm really excited to see what/if Devin can provide some threat at WR... I remember when we were recruiting him, he went to camps and played both QB and WR, whether it was serious or not, I don't know, but I do remember videos surfacing about him being a FREAK athlete...

Over the years, I have found a very useful guideline regarding rumors that you hear out of practice...

100% of what you hear that is bad is true

50% of what you hear that is good is true

So the good things about Darboh have about a 50% chance of being right. On the other hand, if we heard that he came in with a big spare tire or wasn't as athletic as everyone was expecting, I would give that a 100% chance of being true.

Definitely a positive to hear good things about a good-sized freshman at a position of need.

I do agree that the WR paranoia is a little overblown. Really, we have several good options out there for Denard, and even if Gardner can make just enough catches/big plays to warrant an opponent freak out (particularly in the redzone), that will loosen things up for Roy, Jeremy and any other guys.

Seriously, imagine if Devin Gardner lines up at WR during that Iowa goaline stand... automatically, the Hawkeyes have to account for the quick fade (ala Pryor for OSU). That maybe gives the other guys a chance to make a play elsewhere.

I actually think we might throw more than we did a year ago, while still maintaining that run first offense.

If I had to guess (hope), here's how I predict some stats shake out...

I don't have my Hail to the Victors with me, but one of those articles discusses the point that experience at receiver is one (3rd?) of the best predictors of a team's offensive success. That observation would seem to heavily qualify the view that receiver is an area where freshman can contribute.

So, Hoke should not even have practices right now. They are irrelevant. I see. Just wait until they put pads on, then practice. Hoke and Mattison are wasting these kids and their time. They don't know what they are doing. Fire them, and hire a high school assistant coach instead.