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I am planning on doing some more salami and sausages this weekend, but I realize that I do not have any more bactoferm. I want to make the spanish chorizo... just how obligatory is the bactoferm?

Can you make it without?

I'd say that the easy answer to that, since it's a dry cured sausage, is no. You need the live culture to release the lactic acid and prevent bacterial growth.

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

So I came home to put the links into the curing chamber, and thought I'd give them one last blast of heat. So I cranked up the oven for just one minute -- but then Bebe knocked something over, and the dog got into it, and... suddenly they'd been in a 225F oven for several minutes.

Then, when I was flailing the door of the oven opened and closed, they all fell off their chopsticks onto the oven floor.

So I now have this very skeezy looking set of peperone links hanging in the curing chamber in the basement (which is, of course, a perfect 60F and 70% humidity). I guess I'll try to keep that mist on 'em and hope for the best.

Pallee, that looks FANTASTIC! I'm all over that for my next bacon cure....Thanks for posting.

Chris, I'm so sorry for you loss...(sounds like you lost a loved one), but I think I'd do the same. Just hang it and see what happens.

In the future, I wouldn't worry about trying to blast it with a last bit of heat. Like I said earlier, I had a good inoculation without ever getting to a high heat.

I realize that we need to be conscious of all kinds of health concerns. But let's don't forget that this is an ancient craft and was done for centuries without the aid of thermometers or controlled elements.

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

Nice work, Pallee. What a great idea to stuff those garlic cloves in there!

Chris, hang in there. Just look at this run as the one you had to get under your belt before everything starts going perfectly. And I'll bet this batch turns out better than you're expecting it to.

Your comments remind me of that quote from Fergus Henderson about the ingredients misbehaving when they sense your aprehension (or something to that effect). I bet you'll look back on this 'catastrophe' not too far from now and have a good chuckle over it.

Pallee, I am seriously considering your garlic plan! Well done! I wonder what else you can stuff in there....

Chris, I'm so sorry for you loss...(sounds like you lost a loved one), but I think I'd do the same. Just hang it and see what happens.

In the future, I wouldn't worry about trying to blast it with a last bit of heat. Like I said earlier, I had a good inoculation without ever getting to a high heat.

I realize that we need to be conscious of all kinds of health concerns. But let's don't forget that this is an ancient craft and was done for centuries without the aid of thermometers or controlled elements.

All good points. I think that I was in some strange combination of over-conscientious and haphazard, actually, probably in relation to the issue that Ron brings up:

Chris, hang in there. Just look at this run as the one you had to get under your belt before everything starts going perfectly. And I'll bet this batch turns out better than you're expecting it to.

Your comments remind me of that quote from Fergus Henderson about the ingredients misbehaving when they sense your aprehension (or something to that effect). I bet you'll look back on this 'catastrophe' not too far from now and have a good chuckle over it.

"Do not be afraid of cooking, as your ingredients will know and misbehave." That's Sir Fergus's advice, from page XX of his book -- and which I had as a signature line for many, many months. And then promptly forgot.

Ron, I'm pretty convinced that some of this batch will turn out and the rest will be "valuable from a scientific standpoint." Ahem. Speaking of which, I've got that chamber at 60F and 90% humidity. I assume that humidity is too high? Or is there no such thing as "too high" for humidity?

I am planning on doing some more salami and sausages this weekend, but I realize that I do not have any more bactoferm. I want to make the spanish chorizo... just how obligatory is the bactoferm?

Can you make it without?

I agree with Dave. If you don't have some bugs in there to generate acid, it's not likely to dry properly and will remain mushy and will rot. but maybe not, maybe you'll get lucky. in any case, you'll know it if it's not right.

do you have any sourdough starter or real yogurt? i have no idea if adding liquid from those would work but it would be better than nothing...

I am planning on doing some more salami and sausages this weekend, but I realize that I do not have any more bactoferm. I want to make the spanish chorizo... just how obligatory is the bactoferm?

Can you make it without?

I agree with Dave. If you don't have some bugs in there to generate acid, it's not likely to dry properly and will remain mushy and will rot. but maybe not, maybe you'll get lucky. in any case, you'll know it if it's not right.

do you have any sourdough starter or real yogurt? i have no idea if adding liquid from those would work but it would be better than nothing...

I am thinking I will wait 'til next weekend...

I'll make the duck-sage sausage instead...it is pretty time consuming getting the meat from the duck... probably won't have time anyway...

Ron, I'm pretty convinced that some of this batch will turn out and the rest will be "valuable from a scientific standpoint." Ahem. Speaking of which, I've got that chamber at 60F and 90% humidity. I assume that humidity is too high? Or is there no such thing as "too high" for humidity?

Chris, I've noticed that for about 24 hours, or so, after I put a new project in the chamber that the humidity is pretty much higher than normal. I think you'll notice it come down soon.

As far as too high, I'd rather have it too high than too low, causing the exterior to dry too quickly.

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

Here is a quick costco salmon I did this week. I separate into 4 sections and food save them. This is the thick end piece I have sliced for a nice little hand hors d'oevre with lemon and cracked pepper.

This seems to be the week for Sausage Issues, and boy, do I have some. Let's see, where to begin?

Those casings are worse to work with than a kitten-snarled ball of yarn. I was really unprepared for a) how much of a hassle it is to free enough to stuff 3 lbs of meat from a coil made for 100 lbs. Grrr. Then, getting it started on the stuffer nozzle was hard too, even though we had it wet. But then, miraculously, after laboriously inching a foot or so over the nozzle, the rest slid right on. Should the nozzle maybe be oiled, rather than watered, to make the start easier?

Our new vertical stuffer worked a treat, easy to use beyond even my pessimistic husband's expectations. The Italian sausages looked pretty normal

except that, as you can see, there were lots of little air pockets. I'd smooshed the mixture down into the stuffer pretty hard - what else could I have done to avoid the bubble effect?

The twisting instructions were ingenious, but I think we did something wrong. Although the sausages looked normal when raw, when cooked they splorted out of the casings at the ends like this

Sorry for the crummy pictures. The light was bad, the plate kept steaming up the lense, and I was grumpy because of the stuffing excursion. Did I need more twists to get greater length of casing between each sausage? But now that I think of it, I don't really understand what does hold the stuffing in the casing. Once you snip between the sausages, what is supposed to keep the stuffing from exploding out, as mine did?

The flavor was very good, although I found them on the edge of being too salty. And I love salt, so this was pretty surprising. I did sub fennel pollen for fennel seed, and used dried rather than fresh herbs. One thing I'd do differently is do a coarser grind next time. I followed the instructions and used the fine die

but as you can kind of see in this picture, it was finer than a commercial Italian sausage. The mouth-feel was a bit too melting. Now I had added about 3-4 oz of extra back fat, since I'd read comments on the leanness of the Niman butts, and mine didn't seem to be over 20% fat, so that probably contributed to the melting sensation, but I think the grind was also part of the problem.

So, all in all, we learned a lot, but weren't entirely happy with the results. I'm looking forward to your tips, so we can do better next time. And notice how I keep saying "we," whereas my usual posts on this thread are all just me, doing my thing? That's because it sure goes better with four hands than two, alhtough I'm sure that with experience it's possible to go it alone.

Just checked on the peperone, and they're still at that 61F/90%+ level. Lo and behold, the links themselves are looking quite good, save for the odd pock mark on a few of them from hitting the oven floor. I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Abra, I had a few thoughts reading your post. Hope they're useful....

Should the nozzle maybe be oiled, rather than watered, to make the start easier?

I found that a three, step process -- rinse the salt off from the outside, rinse out the insides by attaching one end to the spout, then soak in warm water at least an hour or in cold overnight in the fridge -- goes a long way but doesn't solve the problem. I've been keeping a bowl of water handy (distilled for the peperone) to douse the casings regularly.

The Italian sausages looked pretty normal except that, as you can see, there were lots of little air pockets. I'd smooshed the mixture down into the stuffer pretty hard - what else could I have done to avoid the bubble effect?

I think it's inevitable, and I've been keeping a sterile needle (a safety pin) handy for poking the holes. It's a very simple step at the end, and it solves the problem pronto.

The twisting instructions were ingenious, but I think we did something wrong. Although the sausages looked normal when raw, when cooked they splorted out of the casings at the ends like this [snip] Did I need more twists to get greater length of casing between each sausage?

When I saw the links I thought that they looked overstuffed. When I'm stuffing, I want them to be a little bit understuffed. I also think that getting rid of those air pockets is going to help with this problem.

But now that I think of it, I don't really understand what does hold the stuffing in the casing. Once you snip between the sausages, what is supposed to keep the stuffing from exploding out, as mine did?

Don't snip until they've cooked a bit -- or, cheat a bit (like me) and tie them off with twine.

One thing I'd do differently is do a coarser grind next time.

Yeah, I'm finding that the KA fine grind is too fine quite a few times. I'm going to be trying the coarser grind in the future for a few of these.

I've never had any problems threading the casing, and rarely had an rupture occur. I think Ron mentioned waaaaay up thread about soaking the casing longer by accident. Since that time I almost always soak mine overnight in the refrigerator.

Like Chris, I keep something handy to poke a hole in any air pockets I see.

Also like Chris, my first thought when I looked at your pictures of the cooked sausages was that they looked a bit over stuffed.

I've never used the small die in the KA, have always used the larger one.

Chris,

Fingers crossed for you peperone

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

Ok, good advice! I did soak the casings for about 28 hours, and rinsed them through at the tap, although that was after they'd soaked.

That's so interesting about the overstuffing. To avoid that, do you pull the stuffed sausage forward as it stuffs, or what? They were stuffed to the "natural" level, i.e., no pressure in either direction except for what the nozzle itself provided.

That's so interesting about the overstuffing. To avoid that, do you pull the stuffed sausage forward as it stuffs, or what? They were stuffed to the "natural" level, i.e., no pressure in either direction except for what the nozzle itself provided.

I think that you can't really go by the fill rate of the stuffer. You want to have the sausages filling the casings so that they're, I dunno, 80-90% full. Basically, they should look a little sad, not fat and plump. If that makes any sense whatsoever.

That's so interesting about the overstuffing. To avoid that, do you pull the stuffed sausage forward as it stuffs, or what? They were stuffed to the "natural" level, i.e., no pressure in either direction except for what the nozzle itself provided.

I think that you can't really go by the fill rate of the stuffer. You want to have the sausages filling the casings so that they're, I dunno, 80-90% full. Basically, they should look a little sad, not fat and plump. If that makes any sense whatsoever.

I agree with this. It makes the "linking" much easier and (usually) incident-free. And as Chris posted upthread, air pockets -- which seem to be the only undesireable by-product of this filling method -- can be easily dispatched.

I just grip the casing a little less tightly as it's coming of the horn and let it coil out a bit faster. That seems to do the trick.

Since commercial sausages are always so plumply stuffed, I just assumed we should do that as well. I love it that they should look "a little sad." I'll refrain from any and all off-color analogies, but I know you know what I'm thinking.

Quick question. I'm getting ready to do another batch of the chicken sausage. I remember after my last batch, some discussion of adding chicken skin. ???

Or, should I gust augment the fat that's on the chicken with some belly fat?

Susan, I think someone mentioned a while back that Bruce Aidel said to use the chicken fat. (not sure) The last time I made chicken sausages I used some skinless chicken breasts that were not going to get used for anything else around here so I just added fat back. I like the idea of using the chicken fat, but I've got to think that it will need to be nearly, if not completely, frozen to get it through the dies without smearing.

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

Geez, Dave, nothing sad about your accomplishments so far! You've done about 8 times as much as I have. Assuming that your "pork jowls" are the same as my guanciale, the only thing I've got going that you don't mention is lardo.

The main difference between the butt thread and this one are the butt jokes. It's not that sausages aren't a great inspiration for jokes, is it?

Yes, my jowls are indeed the same as your guanciale, I just didn't know how to spell it at the time I was posting.

Dave ValentinRetired Explosive Detection K9 Handler"So, what if we've got it all backwards?" asks my son."Got what backwards?" I ask."What if chicken tastes like rattlesnake?" My son, the Einstein of the family.

I have a question for all the bacon makers on the board. I am now three days into making savory bacon using the pancetta spicing, and flipped the bellies yesterday afternoon. I've made the maple flavored bacon in the past, and quite a bit of liquid has exuded as the spiced bellies cured in the fridge. This time, I am getting much less liquid exuding from the bellies, despite the fact that both recipes have the same amount of salt in them. The only other difference is that this time I bought the whole pork belly from a local Korean market, whereas in the past I got the bellies from an Amish farmer. Is this difference in liquid normal? Anything to be concerned about? I'm puzzled, to say the least .

Edited by hwilson41, 14 May 2006 - 12:15 PM.

"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne." John Maynard Keynes

I have a question for all the bacon makers on the board. I am now three days into making savory bacon using the pancetta spicing, and flipped the bellies yesterday afternoon. I've made the maple flavored bacon in the past, and quite a bit of liquid has exuded as the spiced bellies cured in the fridge. This time, I am getting much less liquid exuding from the bellies, despite the fact that both recipes have the same amount of salt in them. The only other difference is that this time I bought the whole pork belly from a local Korean market, whereas in the past I got the bellies from an Amish farmer. Is this difference in liquid normal? Anything to be concerned about? I'm puzzled, to say the least .

Based on my experiences and something I think I remember reading way upthread, this is normal. There's something about using maple syrup that ultimately produces a lot more liquid in the curing vessel. Without that component, the liquid output during curing seems consistently smaller.

Thanks Ron. I was concerned that maybe I'd done something wrong because the amount of liquid was so small, but I followed the cure recipe to the letter, except that I had to make extra because the pork belly weighed almost 13 pounds. I'll report back after the project is finished next weekend.

Also need to get going (again ) on the revised andouille recipe. I'm really anxious to produce a jambalaya that isn't so spicy it's overpowering .

"My only regret in life is that I did not drink more Champagne." John Maynard Keynes