believe it or not, they had a CFL(canadian football--similar to american, but different rules like 3 downs, longer, wider field, etc.) team at one point. It was during the point that the CFL expanded into the US where they had teams in shreveport, sacramento, baltimore, and las vegas, birmingham, memphis, and san antonio. The US expansion of the CFL only lasted a couple seasons. The las vegas franchise only lasted 1 year and had dismal attendance figures(2000 people to a game at 9 dollars a ticket). Some may frown on the CFL as it isn't one of the major pro sports leagues(and it really isn't), but it is pretty big in canada.

I don't think it's the economy. Doesn't UNLV have a pretty decent stadium, granted it's designed for a collegiate team and not professional. Those that move like Tennessee Titans and whatever the Sonics are now because they don't get their way with their previous city such as a new stadium, and go to whatever city that has no professional team in hopes and look for the best deal to relocate the team and build them a new stadium.

In terms of an expansion team, I just don't think there's enough of a market, probably television viewership market that would justify establishing a new team. There doesn't seem to be much of an audience for the home LV team while the majority attending the games would probably be out-of-town visitors who love their team, football, and the idea of going to LV. Revenue earned would probably be enough for the team to break even.

What would be interesting is if the city had a good-sized stadium to host a Super Bowl. Maybe the NFL should just make LV the official home of the Super Bowl. The one problem would be the stadium would be one sore white elephant.

The journey of life is not based on the accomplishments, but the experience.

The first is that the city wasn't large enough to support a major league team until quite recently. There were only about 850,000 citizens in 1990 and about 1.5 million in 2000. So realistically the city has been large enough to support an NBA team for maybe a decade. It still isn't large enough for MLB or NFL. In the last decade, there's been only one expansion NBA franchise, and two that moved. That isn't a whole lot of opportunity.

The second reason is gambling. With all the sports betting that takes place in Las Vegas, there are likely to be many in the city that would be very interested in fixing the games. As the NBA has learned, it only takes one bad referee to cast a shadow over the integrity of the whole league. With the continual offers and temptation officials and players would likely experience in Las Vegas, sports leagues might feel the risk to the league.

It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.

NFL is hands down easier to support than NBA or NHL. Would you rather have to fill 17,000 seats for 41 nights, or 70,000 seats for 8 sundays?

It will not happen because LA is the glaring hole and there are more than enough NFL franchises, but the NFL would be a smash hit in Vegas if done right. The NFL is just so popular that there is more than enough local feed to do adequate. However, with the crazy fandom that most NFL teams have, can you imagine how appealing a trip to Vegas to see your team play would be?

I think if no locals bought tickets, the Steelers, Cowboys, Packers, Giants, Patriots fans wouldn't have any trouble..

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 4):
It will not happen because LA is the glaring hole and there are more than enough NFL franchises, but the NFL would be a smash hit in Vegas if done right. The NFL is just so popular that there is more than enough local feed to do adequate. However, with the crazy fandom that most NFL teams have, can you imagine how appealing a trip to Vegas to see your team play would be?

LA still doesnt have a NFL franchise ever since the Rams and Raiders left. I love the SD Chargers, but i'd love to support an LA franchise along with the Lakers, Angels, Dodgers, et al.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Thread starter):NFL = Not a chance in hell.
MLB = Just about as lucky as hitting 7 - 7 - 7 on a slot.
NHL = Seriously not a chance in hell, better odds on the lottery here.
NBA = Maybe a chance in hell.

The NFL and MLB will never put a team in Las Vegas. If one of the two competing arenas in Vegas (One is proposed for Downtown in the Symphony Park area, and one right off of the Strip at the back of Bally's..), they will get either an NBA team or an NHL team. A team could temporarily call the Thomas & Mack Center home until that arena is built, but the Thomas & Mack Center is not a long term home since it lacks a decent number of the $$$$ generating luxury boxes. For a hockey team, the venue is not completely ideal, as the overhead scoreboard does not hang over center ice.

The sports betting aspect of Las Vegas really only seems to trouble the leagues more than the casino gambling. The NBA has casino owners as owners of NBA teams and has addressed the sports betting issues in the past. The Sacramento Kings are owned by the Maloof family, who own the Palms. Up until about a year ago, the sportsbook at the Palms was barred (by the NBA Board Of Governors) from taking any NBA bets as it was seen as a potential conflict of interest. They loosened the ban to only bar betting on games involving the Kings (Not a big deal since a similar rule was enacted by the Nevada Gaming Control Board in regards to college games involving Nevada teams.). Gary Loveman, CEO of Harrah's Entertainment, is a minority owner in the Celtics, and none of the sportsbooks in their properties in Nevada will take bets on Celtics games.

The NBA has loosened its' stance about the gaming industry in recent years, as shown by holding the NBA All-Star Game there, as well as loosening the restrictions on NBA betting at the Palms, allowing Gary Loveman to become a minority owner in the Celtics (He had previously tried and was rejected because of his links to casinos.), as well as the league actually putting together a committee to study the viability of a team in Las Vegas.

The NHL obviously doesn't have too big of an issue with Las Vegas, as they've recently moved their NHL Awards ceremony to the Palms, you've got ads for casinos on the dasher boards at several arenas, and Las Vegas is a city being looked at for a future expansion or relocation of a team.

The Las Vegas market is definitely untested, and bringing in minor leagues or upstart leagues is not going to develop a market. The CFL's experiment with teams in the US was a failure as a whole (The CFL franchise in Baltimore being the lone exception, as they still exist in the CFL as the Montreal Alouettes, and were the only US team to win the Grey Cup.), as most of those markets (as well as their venues) were not ideal for growing the league. Then there's the infamous XFL. Who knows if the latest pro football team in Vegas, the Las Vegas Locomotives of the UFL will succeed where others have failed.

I think that an NBA or NHL team will be the first to test the waters in Las Vegas. There has been rumors that if the Maloofs cannot get something going in regards to a new arena in Sacramento that they will move the team to Las Vegas. Las Vegas has been mentioned as a potential relocation city for several NHL teams rumored to be up for sale and possibly moved.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):Gary Loveman to become a minority owner in the Celtics (He had previously tried and was rejected because of his links to casinos.)

You've never heard of the Maloof family (George Jr, Gavin, Joe, & Phil) have you?? They own the Sacremento Kings, Sacremento Monarchs (WNBA) and The Palms in Las Vegas. They bought The Palms in 1994. The Kings in 2000....

Quoting Smcmac32msn (Reply 7):You've never heard of the Maloof family (George Jr, Gavin, Joe, & Phil) have you?? They own the Sacremento Kings, Sacremento Monarchs (WNBA) and The Palms in Las Vegas. They bought The Palms in 1994. The Kings in 2000....

From the paragraph before the one you quoted:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):The Sacramento Kings are owned by the Maloof family, who own the Palms. Up until about a year ago, the sportsbook at the Palms was barred (by the NBA Board Of Governors) from taking any NBA bets as it was seen as a potential conflict of interest. They loosened the ban to only bar betting on games involving the Kings (Not a big deal since a similar rule was enacted by the Nevada Gaming Control Board in regards to college games involving Nevada teams.).

The Maloofs didn't "buy" the Palms, they built it. The Palms opened in 2001. The property they bought in 1994 was the Fiesta, which they sold in 2000 (to Station Casinos) for $185 million, and the money from that sale helped to fund the Palms.

I believe there are several minor league professional sports teams in Las Vegas including Baseball. The WNBA team Sun play in an arena that is part of the Mohegan Sun Casino facility. However, there is little or no gambling on such sports that you see with pro teams.

For a full 'major' pro sports team - MLB/NHL/NFL team there would be difficult due to the relatively small local market, they would have to rely on tourists for much of the sales. Then you have the extremely high tempatures in the Summer there, even at night at times, that would make it difficult to play many 'day' games unless in a very expensive indoor/covered stadium with air conditioning.

Quoting Boeingfever777 (Thread starter):NFL = Not a chance in hell.
MLB = Just about as lucky as hitting 7 - 7 - 7 on a slot.
NHL = Seriously not a chance in hell, better odds on the lottery here.
NBA = Maybe a chance in hell.

NFL=slim to none. Los Angeles and even London or Mexico City are higher on the priority list than Las Vegas. If the league was potentially interested in testing the waters, you would have already seen a pre-season game scheduled there by either the Cardinals or the Chargers. Let's also not forget that the league has the toughest personal conduct policy of the Big Four, and the considerable amount of distractions present in Vegas doesn't do the city any favors.

MLB=not very likely. There hasn't been any talk of expansion or relocation (in fact, the exact opposite--the league has considered contraction). If they ever consider expanding, Las Vegas could very well be a potential location provided that they can build a stadium. The league is pretty well-covered in terms of geographic representation, with not a lot of "prime markets" left for testing. I could see Vegas contending with places like San Antonio, New Orleans, Portland, Nashville, Memphis, Oklahoma City, and Charlotte/RDU for an expansion franchise.

NBA=Not with David Stern in charge. They gave Vegas a dry run with the All-Star game, and while the league was pleased with the in arena support, Stern was irate about all the extra-curricular activities that took place that weekend, and resulting negative press coverage of NBA players behaving badly. A considerable number of journalists who cover the NBA wrote articles in the wake of the All-Star game that mentioned in some way shape or form that Vegas effectively removed itself from relocation or expansion contention in the near future because of how things went off the court.

NHL=The most likely. The city routinely comes up in possible relocation/expansion discussions along with the likes of Portland, Seattle, Kansas City, and Houston. The city has a potential owner in Vegas resident Jerry Bruckheimer, who is an avid hockey fan, and wants to own an NHL team. The league hosted the end of season NHL Awards ceremony there, and would love for an NHL team to be supported by the hip/in-crowd present in some way shape or form in Vegas. It would be a great publicity boost for the league.
Furthermore, of the Big Four, hockey arguably lends itself the least to sports gambling, given the low scoring games.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):I believe there are several minor league professional sports teams in Las Vegas including Baseball. The WNBA team Sun play in an arena that is part of the Mohegan Sun Casino facility. However, there is little or no gambling on such sports that you see with pro teams.

The Las Vegas 51ers (although they're supposedly going to change the name) are the Blue Jays' AAA affiliate (Pacific Coast League). They used to be the AAA affiliate for the Dodgers.

The Las Vegas Wranglers are the AA affiliate (ECHL) of the Phoenix Coyotes and were previously the AA affiliate for the Calgary Flames.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):For a full 'major' pro sports team - MLB/NHL/NFL team there would be difficult due to the relatively small local market, they would have to rely on tourists for much of the sales. Then you have the extremely high tempatures in the Summer there, even at night at times, that would make it difficult to play many 'day' games unless in a very expensive indoor/covered stadium with air conditioning.

When the initial plans for the Union Park (since renamed Symphony Park) were drawn up, there was a domed stadium penciled in for the site but that eventually was replaced (due to traffic concerns) with an arena.

The population of the Las Vegas metro area is around 1.8-1.9 million (the numbers have swayed a bit due to the economy and there is some disparity in the population numbers depending on the source.). That is larger than the Metro areas of the following US cities with at least one major pro (NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA) team:

The Wranglers do draw decent numbers for being a minor league team. For the 2008-09 ECHL season, they were 11th in the league in attendance, averaging 4621 fans a game, which was above the league average. For the 10 home dates so far this season, they've averaged 4081 fans a game, good for 13th in the league. The Orleans Arena seats 7773 in a hockey set up. I'm of the opinion that if the Wranglers played their games in a more convenient venue they'd draw more fans. I also think that some potential fans do not attend because it is minor league hockey. The annual pre-season game played at the MGM Grand seems to always draw decent numbers (Of course having the Kings and Sharks playing helps draw in the California market.).

I think that with a NHL or NBA team, there would be some success. You would definitely have the casino companies buying boxes and club seats to hand out as comps to their customers (You think most of the folks sitting ringside at a boxing match or UFC event in Vegas actually paid for those tickets?). Games there would definitely be attractive to fans of the away team (What sounds more attractive, going to see your team play in Calgary, Edmonton or Buffalo in January or February or going to see them play in Las Vegas during that same time period?).

Someone in the NBA or NHL will eventually roll the dice and put a team in that town.

I know that whenever I'm out there and make a hockey bet, the clerk at the sports book gives me an odd look. These guys probably can count the number of folks coming in to bet on NHL games on one hand and probably have fingers left. College football and basketball games are bet on more than NHL and NBA games. NFL is of course the top dog, followed by baseball.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 3):The second reason is gambling. With all the sports betting that takes place in Las Vegas, there are likely to be many in the city that would be very interested in fixing the games. As the NBA has learned, it only takes one bad referee to cast a shadow over the integrity of the whole league. With the continual offers and temptation officials and players would likely experience in Las Vegas, sports leagues might feel the risk to the league.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):That is larger than the Metro areas of the following US cities with at least one major pro (NFL/MLB/NHL/NBA) team:

That list left out PDX which has the NBA Blazers.

One other reason I have heard that LAS does not have any major sports teams is because they are a "shift" city. That means that the locals (those who would most likely attend the games) work different shifts and would, in all probability, not attend sporting events due to their work schedule.

For example: If a standard casino has shifts from 7AM to 3PM, and 3PM to 11PM and 11PM to 7AM, those that work 3-11 and 11-7 would not be able to attend games. They probably could not afford it, either.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):
That list left out PDX which has the NBA Blazers.

That's because the population of the Portland metro area is greater (2.1 million) than the population of the Las Vegas metro area (1.8 million). The list I posted is a list of cities with metro population are less than smaller than the Las Vegas metro population that have sports teams.

Arenas tend to be more usable year-round, and in a hot weather city, that is a plus. Even when there is not a sports team playing, the arena could be hosting some other event. The typical arena may host events upwards of 200+ nights a year. So lets say you have an arena with an average seating of 18,000 (The actual number fluctuates based on the event, as a concert will typically hold more than a basketball or hockey set up.). Said arena averages 4 events a week over the course of a year and the average weekly attendance numbers are around 70,000 a week. Said arena could potentially see 3.5 million people walk through its' turnstiles in a year. The average NFL stadium does not see anywhere near that number, even if they host a number of other events. Some NFL stadiums stay practically unused from February until August.

The biggest reason is gambling. For that reason, you will NEVER see an MLB team in Vegas.

Another huge deal is the percentage of transplants and transient population. These people already have their teams.

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 4):NFL is hands down easier to support than NBA or NHL. Would you rather have to fill 17,000 seats for 41 nights, or 70,000 seats for 8 sundays?

No way. The NFL not only needs to sell more seats for a given game, but they need to sell them for higher prices. Also, the risk is spread over fewer games.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):The NBA has casino owners as owners of NBA teams and has addressed the sports betting issues in the past.

From what I can tell, the NBA has "addressed" these issues by being in bed with gambling interests.

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 9):I believe there are several minor league professional sports teams in Las Vegas including Baseball.

Minor leagues are a whole different thing.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 11):
The Las Vegas 51ers (although they're supposedly going to change the name) are the Blue Jays' AAA affiliate (Pacific Coast League). They used to be the AAA affiliate for the Dodgers.

And formerly the Padres as well.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 13):Would I rather pay the salaries of 12 athletes or 53? NBA team payroll is in the $50-90 million range. NFL payroll is $90-150 million.

On balance, NFL teams have significant guaranteed revenue from the massive TV deals.

Quoting L-188 (Reply 17):I know the Alaska Aces regulary go down there to play the Las Vegas Roughnecks.

Wranglers.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):Another huge deal is the percentage of transplants and transient population. These people already have their teams.

This actually presents an interesting challenge that can be solved easily. The locals whose support may lie elsewhere will support that team until their "other team" comes to town. Early on, home games may look more like away games based on the number of folks wearing the visitors' jerseys. You may not be able to get the parents to fully change, but in time, you will get the kids. Another thing that helps is fielding a winning team. It's amazing how folks will drop loyalty to a team they've cheered on for 20 years if the team where they now live is doing great on the ice. I've seen this firsthand here in Atlanta with the Thrashers. The kids who got into hockey as little kids because their parents took them to a Thrashers game 10 years ago are now teenagers or in their early 20s that are dyed in the wool Thrashers fans. Philips Arena does seem to be more like a home arena when the Rangers, Isles, Blackhawks, Red Wings, Bruin, Pens, or Flyers come to town. In the past, you'd see folks that for those games would wear the opposing teams' jersey and go back to cheering the Thrashers the next game. Similar things have happened in markets like Tampa and Florida where there is a significant number of transplants as well as seasonal residents.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 18):
This actually presents an interesting challenge that can be solved easily.

Vegas is different still from those other markets, because they have historically had some pro sports influence, and even Florida isn't nearly the transient market Vegas is. Also, the Florida argument actually makes a point. Look how poorly the Rays and Marlins do, despite having success, unless the Wanks or Red Sox are in town.

Further, given how much pro sports has become a slave to the season ticket, you are going to have a hard time selling those without an established base.

GRB is an exception based in history rather than the rule. The Packers basically pull from the entire state of Wisconsin, and played 3 games a year in MKE for years. In fact, they still have 2 season ticket pools, one for Green Bay games and one for Milwaukee games. Buffalo is similar, as they pull from Toronto and the rest of SW Ontario east of London, which is actually a huge metro area.

Quoting Alias1024 (Reply 20):This is a huge reason cities like Oklahoma City and Memphis can justify pouring millions in public monies into an arena.

Yep. A lot different than trying to rent a baseball or football stadium to a concert tour.

Quoting Seb146 (Reply 14):One other reason I have heard that LAS does not have any major sports teams is because they are a "shift" city. That means that the locals (those who would most likely attend the games) work different shifts and would, in all probability, not attend sporting events due to their work schedule

Very true also LAS is not a bedroom community and exists for one reason. Tourism. People at sporting event means they are not at the slots so you will probably never see this happen.

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 15):That's because the population of the Portland metro area is greater (2.1 million) than the population of the Las Vegas metro area (1.8 million).

All right! I never thought PDX was near a million, but that's cool.

Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 22):Tourism. People at sporting event means they are not at the slots so you will probably never see this happen.

Add to that building a fan base would be next to impossible since the people that would be able to afford to go would all be from someplace else. Maybe NFL could do okay there, since fans come from all over the country anyway. So, at any given time, there would be the fan base to see the Giants play or the Bears, but I don't think they would be there to see the LAS team.

Life in the wall is a drag.

25 L-188
: Oh yeah.....that's right, I just know the aces beat them on a fairly regular basis.

26 Smcmac32msn
: Alright, either way you made my point for me. They have had their filthy little fingers in the casino business for nearly 7 years before they bought

27 MUWarriors
: Would I rather have a portion of the the NFL's $3 billion/year (or roughly $93,750,000/team/year) or a portion of the NBA's contract $930million/year

28 Jeremy
: That is right and they were known as the Las Vegas Stars then. I lived in LAS for close to ten years and it is fairweather for sports. In the early 9