seems like there is a lot of brands, some big and lots of small. there is a definate gap between the big handful of successful companies and the small struggling ones. how many companies are producing kites now?

do you buy a kite based on how successful you think a company is in their ads or claims of R&D?or do you fly a kite and buy it based on its good points and performance?

i see muppets at the beach everyday buying equipment that is overhyped and underdeveloped in so many ways by some of the big name brands, these riders are spending cash to try and get an image of being a good rider and its doing nothing for them.

i much prefer to fly a lesser known kite brand than one of these big names.how many of you would give a newer brand or lessor known brand a real chance?

More companies = more choice, more varitety, more competition a fairer market.

I moved from one of the expensive brands to a smaller brand as I could not afford the asking price. Nothing else as I loved the kites.

The new kites I fly are excellent and can not fault them, in fact I'm loving then and would highly recommend them. the Bar is not as high end but it's still bloody good. I can almost by two kites now for the price of one of the others.

Where they save money (my thoughts based of f@ck all evidence) they only make two types of kite, they don't churn out loads of video in exotic locations the don't sponser the best riders and cart them round the globe.

In essence they do what they are good at and concentrate on make their two kites and one board the best it can be for the widest audience and it work and works well.

The big brands have to pass the cost of the sponsored riders and competitions and videos and online adverts and magazine shoots etc. etc on to the customer (as that is business)

Now I'm not complaining as I love to read and watch all that sh@t it's what keeps me stoked and addicted, its just in my present circumstances I cannot afford it.

I do change my kites often every one or two years. as I'm a bit of queen like that

Actually, it is sort of the other way around in business. If a company first signs a bunch of top end riders and then tries to "pass that cost on" to the consumer, it will likely be a losing endeavor.

The cost of the kite is what it is. A good manufacturer performs a market analysis to determine an appropriate MSRP for a particular new model. If the kite is in high demand, with relatively limited supply, it will hold close to that price. Sponsoring good riders is one method for boosting demand, but how much a company spends on those riders should have almost nothing to do with the stated MSRP. It is simply an attempt to shift the demand curve.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that there are few markets where a company can successfully "pass costs on" to the consumer. Niche markets like kiteboarding don't fall into that category. They are simply trying to increase brand recognition and market share, at the expense of short term profits.

Re: lesser known brands. The way the business cycle works is that a startup will typically be able to offer their initial product cheaper. They don't have large overhead yet, and the equity holders are most times working for less than minimum wage. Low demand allows them to make things on a small scale (often by hand). Such a company might only have net income of $50,000 but for the sole owner, that might be worth it. The problem is the intermediate stage. Once the product becomes more popular, the company must make a transition. Demand is too high to avoid expensive overhead or outsourcing, but not high enough to really benefit from economies of scale. To remain profitable, they must now charge a more realistic price, although they understand that many of the current customers are price driven.

How effectively they manage that transition to higher prices is what determines their success.

Jinx wrote:seems like there is a lot of brands, some big and lots of small. there is a definate gap between the big handful of successful companies and the small struggling ones. how many companies are producing kites now?

do you buy a kite based on how successful you think a company is in their ads or claims of R&D?or do you fly a kite and buy it based on its good points and performance?

i see muppets at the beach everyday buying equipment that is overhyped and underdeveloped in so many ways by some of the big name brands, these riders are spending cash to try and get an image of being a good rider and its doing nothing for them.

i much prefer to fly a lesser known kite brand than one of these big names.how many of you would give a newer brand or lessor known brand a real chance?

just some food for thought!

Why do you think smaller companies are effective on R&D?

I believe muppets are the other way around, they try to prove cool and know-it-all bragging how hype that smaller brand is.

I have no problem flying any kite (big or small TM) and I'd agree with that very good comment above about how often you can change your gear and how deep your pockets are. I just don't have to prove I have the best equipment.

Interesting point, have been thinking about this myself. I've been making my own boards for a few years now as a hobby and have been contemplating the feasability of actually creating a brand and trying to sell them. I know i can make a board just as good as any profuction boards out there but how do you compete without exotic promo vids and world champs riding your gear?

sijandy wrote:Interesting point, have been thinking about this myself. I've been making my own boards for a few years now as a hobby and have been contemplating the feasability of actually creating a brand and trying to sell them. I know i can make a board just as good as any profuction boards out there but how do you compete without exotic promo vids and world champs riding your gear?

From a business standpoint, you shouldn't try to compete. Entrepreneurship is a funny thing, and the vast majority of people approach it incorrectly. This is why you always here things about 90% of start-up companies not making it past their 5th year.

Most people fail to develop a good business model. Some even try to write a business plan, but fail to consider the business model, which is the most important aspect. Part of developing the model is identifying the value proposition to the customer. If there is no convincing value proposition, then there is no success.

Think outside the traditional realm of exotic vids and world champs. What business model will allow you to start small, offering a good value proposition, and not have to compete with the big players directly?

sijandy wrote:Interesting point, have been thinking about this myself. I've been making my own boards for a few years now as a hobby and have been contemplating the feasability of actually creating a brand and trying to sell them. I know i can make a board just as good as any profuction boards out there but how do you compete without exotic promo vids and world champs riding your gear?

Unfortunately you can't compete. Think of any piece of sporting equipment world-wide and there is a champion within that sport that promotes it. It's what works...will always work...and will never change. Endorsements with elite athletes drive brand awareness. Brand awareness drives sales.

One can look at it differently.Too many companies = each company sells less.To survive they need to make some profit so the profit from each product X number of products = profit.

If the number of products soled is lower then the profit from each product needs to be higher. therefore either the product will be cheaper to make but will still cost the same or the price will go up.