Jeanne: Pleased by how this is working. Talking with WAI about not having Techniques document, but instead just an Understanding document, because WAI can't tell browser vendors HOW to do specific things.

17:28:08 [Greg]

Jeanne: Other groups seem supportive of UA doing it the way that best serves our audience, even if not consistent with other WAI projects.

17:28:14 [kford]

Scribe: Greg

17:28:44 [Greg]

Jeanne: Still need to write test procedures to qualify for candidate review, so one can tell if success criteria have been met by implementers.

17:30:18 [Greg]

Kelly: For example, guideline saying you need to slow media playback to 75% of normal; the Understanding document would say to UA vendor the high-level requirement, and provide test criteria like "media played at 75% normal rate".

Greg: I'd like to see the Rationale include breakdown of affected groups; I used that in Microsoft accessibility standards and it helped the audience really understand the benefits and organize or prioritize potential changes by affected population.

17:33:56 [Greg]

Jim: May be able to repurpose many WCAG tests, as all tests are ultimately done using browsers.

17:34:59 [Greg]

Jeanne: Instead of cribbing we could have our Resources section link directly to the tests in the other documents.

Greg: It's easy to say, 'test every piece of UI in the product and every potential piece of rendered UI', but in practice that's not realistic, so we have to provide guidance on prioritizing portions of the UI, etc. and probably test cases for rendered content.

17:38:24 [Greg]

Jeanne: Maybe. For WCAG to get out of CR, had to test every candidate and look at every page. Some sites were thousands of pages, and they looked at representative templates and tested those thoroughly.

17:39:24 [Greg]

Kelly: In reality it's true that not everything gets tested. He's seen different accessibility criteria take different approaches, such as "key user scenarios", etc.

17:41:14 [Greg]

Jeanne: Clarifies that these test procedures are used internally, not by vendors, where the working group demonstrates that the techniques are being used in the real world by demonstrating at least two instances in released products.

17:42:36 [Greg]

Greg: Sorry, my misunderstanding; I assumed we were talking about the Understanding document including testing techniques for vendors, purchasing agents, etc. for verification.

17:43:07 [Greg]

Jeanne: WCAG did publish their internal testing techniques for other people to use.

17:43:53 [Greg]

Greg: I recommend we include such in our understanding document, as it would be extremely useful for our audiences.

Propoasal 4.x Rationale, from Kim Patch: As Web pages have gotten more complicated, there are many situations where users who find it difficult or impossible to use the mouse need more than sequential navigation. Direct navigation allows such users, including speech users, to quickly navigate Web elements.

Kelly: People OK with accepting this as a replacement for 4.7, and then revising from there? 4.7 today only has two points, structured navigation and configuring set of important elements. This proposal adds three new success criteria.

17:59:01 [Greg]

Jeanne: Really likes it.

17:59:27 [Greg]

Kelly: Thanks Kim, Henny, and Mark for doing this work, and all in a week.

18:00:26 [Greg]

Jeanne: Discussion questions from Mark are included in the email.

18:03:26 [Greg]

Issue: There is some concern about the mixing/over-ride of app-supplied key

Greg: If you're worried that UA developers may do a lazy job implementing this such that some pages because unusably slow with this feature, if you really want to avoid that happening the only way is to include it in an S.C.

18:31:19 [jeanne]

I can't get back on the call, because we are past time. :(

18:32:59 [Greg]

Kim: Firefox Mouseless Browsing found they had to add this toggle feature.

18:34:07 [jeanne2]

jeanne2 has joined #ua

18:34:26 [Greg]

Kelly: Sounds like a small thing that can be in Understanding.

18:35:56 [Greg]

Kim: To be clear, Google Docs pages are an example where pages refresh content so often that the UA slows down too much because it tries to analyze numbering of too many items too frequently.

18:38:15 [Greg]

Kim: Good usability for numbering to include all links regardless of whether currently visible, so that things don't change when you scroll and you can memorize frequently used numbers.