Mr Leghorn wrote:I'm tired of this back and forth on what is and what isn't climbing or bad ass. I'm going with the real athlete crowd. This climbing stuff is for little girls, I want to be a man. You know the sort. No, not baseball, Olympic body building.

That's my good friend and personal trainer, Og. He'll put any climber with half an over inflated ego to shame when he crushes your spine. Carry on, little girls.

This body builder might have been a great sport climber. Looks like he's got an awesome strength-to-weight ratio.

I always thought that if you could do 65 or 70 fingertip pullups...then you could crank any sport route up to at least 5.13

Icarreau.... good one, funny how the capital of Metal is now Scandinavia. Long cold freezing winters, cooped up in dark dank little basements really brings out the feelings of doom and death.

I figure Climbing and Music have the same arguments about what is and is not. It is hard to define music. One guy banging on a tin can or 90 people getting down in a orchestra, you pick what you think is music.

Climbing is sort of the same way. Everyone "climbs out of bed" in the morning. Its what one does after that that defines climbing.

Climbing Rocks is just a minor thing even to "climbers", and I don't expect to MANY people on this site to understand just what Steve1215 is trying to say. But he is correct.....

That was the sentiment back in the day, like it or not.

Today things are changing, I meet "Climbers" - who can climb 5.10 - who don't know who JB was and don't even talk about Walter Bonnitti, Gaston, Yvonne, Lynn Hill or any of the true greats of the sport. All they wish is to "do the moves" and not risk anything personally.

So now its time to get ready and go out climbing, on real stone. I have things to do around the house, my garage, the kitchen etc but screw all that....

Late...

Oh Steve1215.... ya gonna make it to the Tree for the Flanders deal???? Lots of people who you can talk to will show up.

I pretty much stopped climbing because when I went to the crags...I just did not recognize "climbing" anymore; it was sad. I was also repeating a bunch of routes just to prove that I could still climb at that difficulty level, which is pretty pointless. Sooner or later your skills go DOWN.

I usually don't spend time talking to people about the "old days"...not that I was one of the "elite," but there was simply more adventure and excitement back then. Obviously, those days are gone forever. People were cool.

I have only a few dozen photographs, but a lot of great mental images of when we were all so young and beautiful....damn!

Guyzo wrote:Today things are changing, I meet "Climbers" - who can climb 5.10 - who don't know who JB was and don't even talk about Walter Bonnitti, Gaston, Yvonne, Lynn Hill or any of the true greats of the sport.

There's that fking word.

Neither Bonatti, Rebufatt nor YC ever called this spiritual vehicle a "sport". All three basically said that those that partake in this activity with all their hearts and soul, do so not for any competition. Rather to find peace in a world of turmoil, chaos and disfunction.

In his book, "Spirit of the Rock", Ron Kauk sums it up so perfectly...

"In the lessons of the vertical world lies the power of a conscious connection to the spirit----- in the rock, air, water, trees and each other.

Climbing has saved my life from the confines of materialistic illusion we're all taught in school.The way I see it, there are two worlds: the world where nothing is sacred except money, and the other is the world, where everything is sacred. Climbing has shown me the difference between the two."

That my friend is the true fundamental difference between today's climbers, and those of us that started way back when and did so only to seek and then find as Ron did.

Steve1215, quit living in the past dude. Nothing has changed for us that continue to live the life we found "bitd". For me, there is no such thing as this "bitd" shit. I still climb today with the energy, vigor, tenacity and quest for that peace I speak of above, as I did when I first tied my first bowline on a coil into a goldline rope.... over 43 years ago.

I've returned to climbing a few times after laying off for several years. It only takes me a month or two to resume doing 5.10 routes. Anticipating that, I'm trying to shed about 10 pounds these days. A lot of us, for a lot of reasons, just cannot be totally dedicated to climbing.

But I'm sure that when I'm 90-years-old I'll still be able to climb 5.7 or 5.8 routes...face routes, at least.

The Chief wrote:In his book, "Spirit of the Rock", Ron Kauk sums it up so perfectly...

YES!!! This book should be read by all who consider themselves climbers. A fabulous and inspiring read to say the least. Ron nails it in each and every sentence (while some may be a bit more spacey than others, you should get the picture). Pursue the aesthesis of movement over stone in the finest environments the Earth has to offer via methods which value mental and physical skill, courage, commitment and respect.

Days of adventure gone forever??? I still find plenty of adventure in my climbing as well as cool people...perhaps you should try to do more with less! Running it out near the skill threshold in new terrain, now that is adventure worth seeking!!!

Steve1215 wrote:I pretty much stopped climbing because when I went to the crags...I just did not recognize "climbing" anymore; it was sad. I was also repeating a bunch of routes just to prove that I could still climb at that difficulty level, which is pretty pointless.

I agree with some of what you're saying in the first part of your post, although I attribute that more to the climbers than the activity. Just because some people choose to dumb down the sport for their own safety, enjoyment, whatever, [edit: doesn't] prevent me from climbing how I want to.

I don't get the second part though. I still love climbing. While doing the same routes over and over might not be as fresh as always climbing something new, I still love the movement, the time with friends, being outside, etc. There's always someplace you can go and rediscover that sense of adventure. Sure, spread is a part of life but that's just your body. Your mind will always stay hungry for it, even if your body takes a while to catch up.

Legpowered wrote:"The crags gave us something special that was intense and very personal."

Implying that people of my generation (or younger) don't get something "intense and very personal" from climbing is a bit offensive to me. Climbing and mountaineering is a big part of how I define myself. I'm no sport climber, either. Trad and alpine mostly. Not that I'm against sport; it's fun too. Besides, that sport climber you are ripping on probably was out freeing some 5.13 line people never dreamed possible in your day. No offense.