Post subject: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbies

Posted: June 18th, 2010, 11:07 pm

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:56 pmPosts: 2840Location: Wittmann,AZ

Greetings!

Welcome to the hottest state in the union for herping (and I'm not just speaking temperatures!)

Here is a thread that will hopefully answer the most common questions about herping in the great Arizona Territory!

Permits/ Licenses/ Etc.

Yes, you will need a hunting license if you are only looking for reptiles and a fishing license if you are only dealing with amphibians. If you want to have fun with all Herps in Arizona you can obtain a "combo" license instead which covers both. Here is a link to prices for the permits from Arizona Game and Fish (AZGF) http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/licenses.shtml

I suggest the guide "A Field Guide to Amphibians and Reptiles in Arizona" by Thomas C Brennan and Andrew T Holycross as well as Stebbins. There is also one specifically for Maricopa County, and another for Sabino Canyon by different authors.

Asking for Locations

Don't even bother. Its not that we don't like you, or we think that you aren't worth our time, but herpers in Arizona are very protective of locations and sites. We suggest you get the field guides, do some research, and go out and find your target species on your own. Some members of the forum are easier going than others and they may be willing to show you around or answer a few questions. You likely still will not get an exact location, but perhaps a mountain range, or a county directional (such as look in the south of Gila County). But be forewarned, take advantage of that persons trust in you and it will become common knowledge quickly. Once a trust and respect is earned the information will flow a bit easier.

We understand that some folks who are out here on vacation for a herp expedition of the Sky Islands may want to get as much info as possible as soon as possible to maximize their limited time, we understand. Its just that a few times we have been bit by what we call "vacuum" collectors - those who take everything they see from a location - and we don't like that.

Plus, its mpore meaningful, I think, to do the research at home, go out into the field and find your target species on your own. it makes the experience that much more meaningful because you have actually taught yourself something about the animal you are looking to find!

MONSOON!

The Arizona herper's favorite time of year. It used to be measured by the first set of three consecutive days where the dew point reaches 55 degrees or more. The government in its infinite wisdom has changed it to a specific time period - June 15th to Sept something or other.

Anyway,the monsoon means nothing more than a change in wind pattern. The wind changes from either a north or west wind to a south wind, bringing with it humidity and moisture from Mexico. Thus the storms, generally, build up during the day and let loose in the afternoon and evening and, generally, die down at night. Severe rain and wind is possible. Tornados have occurred from these storms, but they are very rare. More likely is flash floods. So be careful if you are herping in a desert wash as the storm may be far away but that water can fill that bone dry stream bed fast! And it can sweep you, and your vehicle away in no time. Be aware, that Arizona has a "Stupid Motorist" law. If the emergency crew has to pull you out of a river because you thought you could drive across it, you will be cited and liable for the rescue costs. If the road sign says Road Closed Flooded - go around, not through the flooded area.

Everyone here has different ideas about how to herp in the monsoon. I like to stay dry, so I will follow behind storms. Others look in front of the storms, and some daring folks go into the storms to herp. I'm sure others will post suggestions, experiences in this department.

Where to Herp

This is where your research will come into play. It will depend on what your target species are. It will depend on what time of year you are here. It will also depend on your physical abilities... obviously some one in poor health will likely not be able to hike up a mountain side to see a montane rattler for instance. See Asking for Locations above for more information on this.

Conclusion

I hope this helps you in your quest for the perfect herping trip in Arizona. If anyone has anymore suggestions, feel free to add.

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: June 19th, 2010, 10:43 pm

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 7:36 amPosts: 590Location: Sydney, Australia

Quote:

Permits/ Licenses/ Etc.

Yes, you will need a hunting license if you are only looking for reptiles and a fishing license if you are only dealing with amphibians. If you want to have fun with all Herps in Arizona you can obtain a "combo" license instead which covers both. Here is a link to prices for the permits from Arizona Game and Fish (AZGF) http://www.azgfd.gov/eservices/licenses.shtml

Anybody else notice that the non-resident 1-year combo permit costs about $4 more than buying the hunting and fishing permits separately, yet "Save!" is written stylishly across the grid?

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: June 22nd, 2010, 7:32 pm

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:56 pmPosts: 2840Location: Wittmann,AZ

Yes, legally you can not shine a light from your vehicle while the vehicle is in motion. But once you are parked safely off the road you can light things up with as much light as you deem necessary. But you must be outside your vehicle (as in feet on the ground) to use any light source other than your headlights.

A Q-beam is a spotlight that you can buy at Wal-mart. It is really powerful, something like 50 million shiny plates all aimed at you at once...it'll light up South Mountain from the east side of Tempe (well, maybe not quite, but it works real good on roads and roadsides).

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: November 3rd, 2010, 11:59 am

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:56 pmPosts: 2840Location: Wittmann,AZ

Quote:

Brian Hubbs Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

A Q-beam is a spotlight that you can buy at Wal-mart. It is really powerful, something like 50 million shiny plates all aimed at you at once...it'll light up South Mountain from the east side of Tempe (well, maybe not quite, but it works real good on roads and roadsides).A Q-beam is a spotlight that you can buy at Wal-mart. It is really powerful, something like 50 million shiny plates all aimed at you at once...it'll light up South Mountain from the east side of Tempe (well, maybe not quite, but it works real good on roads and roadsides).

How long does it last, is it rechargeable, or does it need non rechargeable batteries?

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: March 23rd, 2011, 5:14 am

Joined: July 27th, 2010, 8:17 pmPosts: 121

Q. do you need a hunting license when taking photos of birds or other wildlife? I might be down this summer and might get a chance to hike around some but dont want to brake the law if I see that awesome shot.Thanks.

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: March 24th, 2011, 6:45 am

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 amPosts: 2272Location: Southern Arizona

DesertZone wrote:

Q. do you need a hunting license when taking photos of birds or other wildlife? I might be down this summer and might get a chance to hike around some but dont want to brake the law if I see that awesome shot.Thanks.

A. No. You only need a hunting and/or fishing license if you're working with reptiles and/or amphibians, respectively. You can look at or photograph any other kind of animal w/o a license, as far as I know.

One time I was pulled over on the side of the road and was photographing a tarantula, when an AZG&F car pulled up. The guy came over to me and asked what I was doing. I said, "Photographing a tarantula." Then he asks if I'm photographing snakes, and I say, photographing everything I see. Then he says, I need to see your license.

My experience has been, if you're only doing birding, or you're only photographing invertebrates (we have those), then you don't need a license. As soon as you become a snake hunter and start photographing those, you need one.

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: January 18th, 2012, 6:50 am

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 amPosts: 2272Location: Southern Arizona

I don't know what the cost of a hunting license is this year, yet, but last year I think it was around $155 for an out of state license for the year. Some folks get a three day license, or whatever is available, for short trips, which is cheaper. In my case, being in the field year 'round, I get a resident hunting/fishing combo license, which I think is still less than $40/yr. For someone who is going to spend lots of time in AZ from out of state I would suggest getting the out of state license. Before I moved to AZ I bought the non-resident license every year for about ten yrs. I remember the AZ guys recommending that I pay my share for the privilege of herping this great state. Remember, the monies from licenses go towards conservation and maintenance projects that AZG&F and other agencies do for wildlife and such.

However, sometimes buying a license is a little unnecessary, imho. I'm a gregarious kind of guy and have lots of friends. My best friend from Michigan is an avid birder. When he comes down to visit we are generally birding. We like to look at and photo a reptile once in awhile when we come across something, but normally we are walking around with binoculars looking at birds. I don't expect him to buy an expensive license on the chance we might stumble upon a snake or lizard. Besides, I have a license. He did buy a license in 2010 though, when we joined the NAFHA spring field trip to the Mojave Desert. It was a good thing too, because we were stopped by AZG&F and they checked every person in the car for a license.

Last year, in 2011, I only was stopped twice and checked for my license. Once I was with another AZ herper and we were both checked, and it was only because we approached them as they were working on a wildlife project in the grasslands of southern Santa Cruz Co. The other time we were checked by a Forest Service worker. I get visitors all the time: our daughters and spouses, nephews, grandson, friends, etc. I always stop for snakes in the road, whether we are visiting an observatory in the mountains, going out to dinner, or going to church. Certainly, these visitors don't need a license, and I have mine. Visitors who are just along for the ride shouldn't be seen as hunters, collectors, or herpetologists. That won't fly, however, if you're standing in the road holding a flashlight and a snake stick and a snake bag is hanging out of your back pocket. If you look like a serious herper, you're a herper and you should be legal.

One more thing. AZG&F has to be on the lookout for poachers and other bad people. I happen to live in an area which is fantastic for herps and draws all kinds of herpers during the warm seasons. One of the coolest mountain ranges in the world is 15 minutes from my house and has a number of roads that are nice for road cruising. I often see things on these roads which I feel are inappropriate or illegal, from illegal aliens to illegal poaching. Some infractions are just herpers using bad judgement, like parking in the middle of the road when looking at a herp, or collecting way too many animals to be just an observer. Remember, AZ has laws on how many herps can be collected, even with a license. I once met a guy that wanted me to help him collect certain snakes on one of the best roads in the area. I later talked to a Law Enforcement friend of mine (LE) that told me this guy had been arrested and had way too many herps in his truck, and way to many herps in his hotel room, some of which were protected species, including a gila monster. The bottom line is that not everyone is honest and not everyone is just here to see things, get species for their life list, or to photograph. Many are here to collect and we have to be careful we don't help the unlawful collectors. AZG&F is going to think you are a collector too, if you have collecting items or herps in your vehicle or in the field. If they see these things they will likely want to search your vehicle to see what you have collected. Sometimes they will ask if you've collected anything. I think the licenses are mostly for folks who have collected herps, but they also protect folks who are just looking, as some LE will be very strict with the rules.

* Just my morning rant about collecting and licenses. I'll be getting back to my regular schedule now...LOL!

Just to clarify: R-12-4-304 says that one "May use artificial light while taking reptiles, if the light is not attached to or operated from a motor vehicle..."

How does this affect the legality of nighttime road cruising?

If you stop for a reptile, pull off the road. It's not legal to park in the road itself. Once you get out of your car, you can use an artificial light to look for or at a reptile.

TC

I'm in a rambling mood this morning, so thought I'd follow up on this post...

Although it's illegal to park in the middle of the road, it's sometimes dangerous to try to pull off to the side. Some situations include when the side of the road has lots of vegetation, especially spiny plants, like cactus; when the road has no shoulder, like on a mountain road with a dropoff, or any road with no shoulder; when there is a lot of traffic and it's dangerous to slow down; or when there's something on the shoulder that would put you in peril, like cattle, sand or mud you would get stuck in, or a tree that would do damage to your car. You also need to be aware that driving through puddles or road-side ditches might cause you to run over some amphibians.

You wouldn't believe how many times I've had to change a tire, because I've pulled over and ran over a plant that fought back with spines. Two years ago a buddy and I saw a car in a canyon at the base of a mtn road dropoff. Later we heard a rumor that a herper had gone off that road, wrecking his car, and had abandoned it. It was so remote an area that it took over a year to remove the wreckage.

People who park in the middle of a busy road take the chance of getting plowed into by another car. I was on a quiet road with a speed limit of 35 mph when I saw a gila cross the road in front of me into vegetation on the side. I stopped in the road to chase said creature for photos to prove I saw it. Another car stopped immediately behind, but got off the road. Then at around 60 mph, at least, two cars came flying down the road (later learned they were militants chasing illegals) and before I could get back to my car had zoomed out of sight. I finally got my car off to the side, but a third car saw what happened and pulled up behind me with lights flashing. I got read the riot act for a full ten minutes. Just ask Billboard who laughed and told the officer that I obviously had no regard for the law. I never did get the photo of the gila.

One time I was in a hurry to get to a certain night road cruising location when I came around a curve, going too fast of course, and saw a big black cow right in the middle of the road. I stood on the brakes and barely stopped in time. You know you're responsible for any meat wasted in AZ and would have to compensate the owner of said beef. My SUV also has seen its day. The sides have tons of scratch marks from all the trees and bushes I've made contact with on the side of the road and on the narrow two tracks that sometimes pass as roads here in s. AZ. That's one reason I'm driving a car that's eight years old. Really, I'm not usually that cheap..heheh!

The car rental agencies here are aware of the problems of driving in s. AZ. They warn you to stay on pavement and level roads. Mountain roads can be dangerous and hazardous to your car, especially the tires. Rental cars are notorious for having cheap tires, sometimes w/o much tread left on them. Driving on rocky mountain roads will test the endurance of your tires and car rentals try to get you to sign off on something if you're going to do that. They probably will ask you to buy extra insurance if you look like a herper too. People who drive too fast on these mtn. roads have the most flat tires of any drivers I've ever seen, and this can be a problem for other herpers, if they are behind you. Ever have to change a tire on a narrow mtn. road? The car speeding over large, sharp rocks, will sometimes cause a cut in the tire. I always tell folks to slow down, but some herpers think they will see more if they drive 60 mph. What they miss, because of this attitude I could write a book about. I guess I could write a book about just about anything really. I also hate seeing DOR's, because of herper stupidity. Anyway, lots of things can seem stupid at the time, because of the situation.

Last summer, our group of NAFHA diehards were on a mountain road in the deep south of AZ, when we pull over, because someone saw something. However, it was on a curve, and it was on a road cut, and we had to park in a puddle of water on the little side there was. Next thing you know a car comes roaring around the curve and almost hits us. Swerving to the left, it barely stopped in time before going off the dropoff on the far side of the mtn. He stops in the middle of the road. Then we find out he's Forest Service. Are they LE? Well, anyway, he asked to see our licenses. And then he tells us that there's a "protected" species of leopard frog in that mud puddle we parked in, and if AZG&F had stopped us and saw that we might have run over a protected species, and that we hadn't gotten fully off the road, and that we had almost caused an accident, well you know how serious that could have been. Then, of course, I had to hear about it from the carload of herpers I was driving around for the next half hour. Dave is the worst in situations like that.

When to use lights? This is a good question, which can be answered by situations also, heheh!

If you're road cruising, make sure you pull off the road in a safe location before getting out and using portable lights. Sometimes you have to drive a few miles out of your way to do this...LOL.

BTW, veteran AZ herpers tend to use vehicles that have great lights, not so much that they light up the roadway better, but because they don't want to run over nasty vegetation on the roadside when they're pulling over safely, or run into cattle in the middle of the road, or those illegals that shoot out of the dark in front of them, just when they are the most tired from a long night of staring at an empty road. Most vets stop early on and buy a big jug of coffee. My buddies and I like those double shot drinks. This is so we can stay awake for hours doing nothing more than testing our endurance and telling old war stories. I don't know why LE sometimes think we've been drinking something else....ughhh! Anyway, vehicles with great lights usually are carrying the smartest, best looking herpers, and LE knows this, and rarely checks their licenses. I personally like using my fog lights, because it helps me find blind snakes, which don't really care how much light we have.

True diehard herpers don't like to road cruise for too long, in spite of what I may have told you previously. They like to find a good spot and "night walk." For the uninformed, this means using a lattern to light up the desert in front of you. You can only do this "outside" your vehicle. Law prevents us from night walking from inside a vehicle. Whatever. I like walking in washes or canyons. There tends to be some good herps there. I've seen a few rattlers this way. They often curl up under a bush or in a rockpile and wait for their prey to come to them. Contrary to popular belief, not all rattlers are crossing the roads at night and it isn't always the best way to find them. I don't really care for rattlers that much anyway, so I'd rather see a gila or something else. I've found it's best to find gilas when walking, as finding them running across the road can cause you problems, if you're not extremely aware of your immediate environment.

Well, time for me to get back to work. I've played around long enough. I hope I didn't confuse anyone and actually helped those of you who aren't from AZ to get a feel of what it's like to be here long enough to experience the good times. Hope to see y'all in the field.

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: January 25th, 2012, 8:53 am

Joined: June 8th, 2010, 8:08 amPosts: 2272Location: Southern Arizona

Ya, that's right, we had two cars that day, didn't we? Well, I meant in general anyway...LOL. Somehow I do catch a lot of flack. Must be my errant ways when on the trail of a cool herp. Might as well have a target on my back, haha!

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: June 15th, 2013, 8:08 am

Joined: June 9th, 2010, 5:51 amPosts: 782Location: Arizona

"I wont pay any state to take pictures, not even my home state of California. Thanks for the friendly advice "

Sigh....well, if all you're doing is taking in situ pictures of animals, then you don't need to pay anyone to take them. However, if you are manipulating the animals in any way, then you need the license.

As much as I'd like to jump on the anti-government dictatorship bandwagon, I have a hard time doing so considering that the money spent on licenses by both in state and out of state herpers goes towards some pretty valuable conservation projects and goals by AzG&F.

This isn't a tax....it's not some sort of expense that you're expected to pay without any real tangible benefit in return....You get the benefit....You get to manipulate and legally collect (if that is your wish) any unprotected species of native reptile or amphibian (with a fishing license).

Your refusal to play by the rules and state so on a public forum means that you really don't care about conservation here....you just want to come, play with your animals, take your pictures and leave.

Typical herper mentality. No wonder herpers are looked at with disdain by the world at large. They don't even have a good rep within their own community.

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: August 19th, 2013, 7:31 pm

Joined: June 10th, 2010, 6:56 pmPosts: 2840Location: Wittmann,AZ

Just a side note ....

On our last outing to the Sky Islands down south we were stopped by a Game Warden. After checking our licenses he told us they had busted a poacher earlier in the day. The funny thing was, everything he had was legal IF HE HAD A LICENSE. But since he didnt have one.... he ended up in jail.

I'll pay the $50 bucks or whatever it comes out to to save a night in jail or worse. My time, not my freedom, is worth more than the cost of the license!

And now that we have driven this dead horse into the ground, lets get back on the original topic please! Info for newbies!

I have numerous e-mails from AZ G&F about Watchable Wildlife (WW). At one time I was thinking about providing a Reptile Guide Service. In Arizona you need a fishing guide license ($300/per year) from AZ G&F to take people fishing for a fee. Same with hunting ($300/year) if you are taking people hunting for a fee. There is a test you have to take along with the annual $300 fee.

Bottom line from AZ G&F. I can take someone out for a fee without a guide license if that person is not pursuing/take of an animal/fish. So if one wants to just take pictures then a hunting license is not necessary. No different than bird watchers and photographers that take pictures of big game, etc. There are businesses in southern Arizona that charge people to go out and take pictures of hummingbirds and no license is required by the photographer nor the guide. The same applies to reptiles that are found while driving or hiking ........ no hunting license required to take pictures of Watchable Wildlife (WW).

Of course since 1990 I have always purchased the hunt/fish combo license.

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: July 10th, 2014, 1:26 am

Joined: December 5th, 2013, 3:14 pmPosts: 16Location: Norway

We are three persons from Norway going to AZ for 2 weeks in September - how do we do it with the license? Do all of us need to get the license even if it's just two of us interested in photographing reptiles? Do we have to get the full-year license for those two weeks?

If all of your group will be "hunting" "pursuing" herps then yes, you will all need a license. If only one is hunting and the others are being dragged along (with no snake hooks or tongs or collecting bags,etc.) than you MIGHT get away with just a single license. I would say to be safe, everyone get a license. No need to get stopped and possibly ticketed or worse arrested!

Post subject: Re: Welcome To Arizona - Info for the Traveler and the Newbi

Posted: March 23rd, 2015, 1:28 pm

Joined: June 7th, 2010, 9:22 amPosts: 301

Good info. I have two weekend work trips to Phoenix coming up. I am hoping to have this Sunday free and clear to go up to Sedona and herp the day. And then I come back in two weeks and I plan to drive south. If anyone wants to meet up or if you have any tips you wouldn't mind sending my way, please PM me.

Biker DaveYou mentioned monsoon season. Does this make herping more productive in the summer, in all areas of the state (including desert areas), in spite of the heat? Does it cool off enough so that observing snakes is possible n mornings (in case you prefer to go by foot as opposed to night road cruising). Does the rain keep snakes from becoming inactive (sorry cant remember the word for the opposite of brumation right now)? Is the monsoon season typically all summer?

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