I've been a long time Palm user supporting Palm by buying every new palm/handspring/treo when they are released. I'm currently using a 700p on sprint and was waiting for the 755p. However, as time goes by, I am starting to wonder if I should jump ship. With more and more slim phones by Samsung, Blackberry, (insert any vendor here except palm), I wonder why am I still using my brick? Clearly, there are ways to get more features in a smaller form factor, but Palm's next generation phones are a measly .1 inches smaller? Come on Palm! We all expected the lowrider to be as slim as the other phones coming to market at that time.

Ok, so even if I decide to live with the form factor for better software, usability, etc, then, I start looking at the Apple and WM6. Ok, so iPhone is still vaporware at this point and the lack of third party software and business exchange syncing is a huge strike against it, thus maybe WM6 or???

Apple has mobile Safari and now MS's new deepfish browser, is incredible. It appears that deepfish allows you to surf much faster and not limit you as much as typical mobile browsers.

In addition, while we are still waiting for the next frankengarnet mash of wire and tin to come out, there are free upgrade to WM6 for treos/other smartphones. Imagine that! Whereas with Palm OS/700p, we have to pay to upgrade to get working bluetooth -- we are still waiting for a firmware upgrade almost 1 year after product release! Why bother now . Sorry bob_c for all your hard work -- however, it's purported that sprint is discontinuing the 700p phone in May. We get 1 month of usage before it's discontinued!

Normally, Palm holds their cards close to their chest, however, they might want to start thinking about showing their cards. Palm, in May, hopefully you show something Hawkins-esque to wow us with a revolutionary product. Don't you think that there are a lot of people out there waiting to upgrade their phone for an iphone? Apple's marketing strategy for their product is amazing.

Ok, so instead of dreaming of what's next, what are you going to do if the 755p is lackluster and don't want to pay 650 bucks for the same phone that's .1" thinner with no antennae?

I share some of your frustrations, but don't really have that big an issue with the form factor. Yeah, it's a little thick, but it still works better than any of the competition.

I'm really bugged by the lack of updates to the software. Not just the OS, but the PIM apps, the dialing software, the lack of integration and features that are available on basic, free or nearly free phones. (Why can't the contact's list automatically insert dashes in a phone number, for example).

But I've yet to find anything better, from anyone else, including Palm. WinMob, even v. 6, is still light years behind the antique Palm OS when it comes to ease of use. If MS put half as much effort into ease-of-use as they do into adding features, they could blow Palm away, but MS's entire culture is based on adding more and more and more, whether users really need it, and regardless of it's impact on usability. Microsoft just doesn't understand the differing constraints of a mouse-free, small screen environment.

I may be forced by Palm's incompetence (let's spin off the OS--NO, let's buy it back--NO, let's sell it--Wait, let's spend a fortune re-purchasing the rights to the app we used to own--No, wait, we're confused--or maybe we're not) and inability to add the most basic improvements (Palm brags it has more software engineers than hardware--if so, they must be the most bored and least productive software engineers in the world) to switch from the Palm OS, but I'm not overly impressed by any of the alternatives, either.

Wow I was just like you, just a few weeks ago. I had been a longtime palm user back to palm III. I have had three Treos, like them but outgrew them in a design way. I finally got rid of my 700p for a Q. After a few days of having to relearn the basics, and still not being able to do much hacking on it, I really like it.

I thought I would miss touchscreen but after being without it, it is just a crutch for a poorly designed operationg system still begging for grafitti.

The size is biggest reason I love the Q. I always felt like George Costanza from Seinfeld, with this huge wallet that her referred to as his personal organization system, when ever I had to carry my treo. To makes things worse, it didn't work that great as a phone. The Q slipps into my pocket with ease and does not cause my back to hurt like my old personal organization system.

Just researched an upgrade for a 650 (Verizon) for my boss. Looked at Blackberry and the VZW 750wx. After my research, I had to go with the 700P. The capabilities and potential is really good. Easier to use than WM, and more multimedia than the Blackberry. At least for Verizon, the 700P is still all-around smartphone king. (Still hoping for a firmware fix though.)

I'm kind of in the same place as gapost. I tried to get rid of my 650 in favor of a Samsung U-740, but the lack of Outlook sync has me coming back.

I've got a 700p (Verizon) on the way. But it looks like this will be my last Palm OS device.

I've tried Windows Mobile, but absolutely cannot use it. So once the 700p is done, I guess I'll look towards Blackberry. Not the best OS, but stable, efficient, and certainly more usable than what Microsoft is putting into phones.

It's sad to see how Palm has just driven the wheels off of their nice car and have pissed away their market dominance.

This time next year palm will release a nice "new" toy and we all will be looking to get it... maybe they will rename it so you won't have to say you purchased a treo.

I love my 700wx... used it on a trip instead of my laptop. Although, I think I need a wireless keyboard to go with it... sucks typing long support emails. Other than that, it is stable, fast, and smaller than a laptop... lol... although, the only negative, I wish palm would do something with the rf signal... I think they should boost it some way.... For data though, the treo line can't be beat... IMO....

I'll keep my treo 700wx until at least june 08, then move on to whatever treo or device that operates win mob 6.

To the OP, it seems like you would be one who is not looking so much for a new device, but better mobile experience with your Treo. One part of that is the hardware (surely Palm can do better) and the other part is the software (Access, Palm, and 3rd party developers need to step up, I totally agree with you). However, in terms of the usability that you ask for, only the iPhone will come close to not making you want another Treo. WM, Symbian, and mobile Linux devices have shown that they are great with features, but not in a package that will not need some level of compromise or tweaking.

That being said, the Universe web browser is being developed for the Garnet OS. I hoensty see it as a possible salvo over the brow of Access and Palm for what is considered usable in a mobile browser beside small size.

Just some info about Deepfish from a mobile guy and web developer. Deepfish is nice, however, like every other browser, speed is determined by the network you are using and the device you have. In the video preview, there was a mobiled evice being used that had a fat pipe for data. Deepfish should scroll that fast. Unless there is a insane amount of RAM-hogging caching going on (it is), scrolling thru sites will take a while. And also, you are not getting functionality, but being served a flat page, leading me to believe that like Opera, you are getting a server side playing going on there. Aka, proxy, aka, someone else before it hits your device.

To address the crux of your argument: will Palm do better?
Who really knows. What we do know is that the Treo has been attacked on all sides and is still doing well. There is something in the water that is keeping whatever Palm isnt doing to advance the Treo a good bet for folks. Heck, my copper 680 has made people reconsider BBs and other devices just because of the color. Surely, people cannot just want a color and not real functionality :shocked: <-not

What I am saying is that you should not compromise on the device that will work best for whatever it is that you are trying to do. But, do not think that another device will fit you just because one piece of software comes out for it. The way that you use your device is not program by program, but by the entire device at a time with programs in between that usage. Play with WM, Symbian, and other devices. Do know what is out there. But don't make a decsion based on Microsoft's Research software that's still in beta - one would think that if you are visiting this site that you would have learned that much of what we've gotten from MS in the recent past has been beta, and you don't want that fustration.

That being said, Deepfish is copying what Nokia is doing client side with their web browser. Access also has a WM browser that does that, as does Opera. Universe will do that too. So don't feel that bad on just one demoed piece of tech, k. Get yourself a Nokia Nseries or Eseries device and play with that browser; you will hate Blazer even more, but you will respect the package that is Treo even more as well.

EDIT: just becasue a product is discontinued does not mean your's will not work any more. What the heck is it with folks who act like that is the case?

I moved on - my experience with Palm OS has been long, but the OS is just too limited these days. Too many hacks and workarounds are needed to make it work right which leads to instability issues. WM5 is where it's at for me, and having used about an equal number of PPC and Palm OS devices, I can say for certain that the Palm OS just doesn't cut it anymore.

Windows Mobile - If you want everything your laptop does in a handheld device.

Me, I don't need spreadsheets, word documents, FTP, etc. I want my calendar, phonebook, task list, email in a nice easy to use interface. Anything else it can do for me is just gravy.

That's why the Palm OS has met my needs for almost 10 years. But now, I just don't see much activity from the Palm camp. The one (very) bright spot I've seen is their hiring of Marc Blank. That gives me hope.

Me, I don't need spreadsheets, word documents, FTP, etc. I want my calendar, phonebook, task list, email in a nice easy to use interface. Anything else it can do for me is just gravy.

Word. I feel you there. I do need all of that and use a Treo 680 to do it all. Stability issues arent an issue with me mainly becuase I just use what I need and roll from there.

The key though is using what works best for the job, and whether that is Symbian, WM, Garnet, BB, or something else, what you use make sure that you know it well enough to be able to put it down when it no longer works for you.

Windows Mobile - If you want everything your laptop does in a handheld device.

This is not true. Both devices can go head to head on a bulletpoint list of features (note: Multitasking is how the system works, do you see Palm say "Multitasks!!!" on the list of features of the 700wx?) and both are equally limited when compared to a laptop, including Windows Mobile. Pocket Internet Explorer is no Internet Explorer, but it sure is great compared to Blazer.

Anyway, I thought that Deepfish would have this effect, not because it's any good (it's not), but because it's trying something different (or imitating?) .. it shows Microsoft really is making an effort in the mobile space, at least compared to Palm these days.

Originally Posted by gene

Ok, so instead of dreaming of what's next, what are you going to do if the 755p is lackluster and don't want to pay 650 bucks for the same phone that's .1" thinner with no antennae?

Windows Mobile - If you want everything your laptop does in a handheld device.

Me, I don't need spreadsheets, word documents, FTP, etc. I want my calendar, phonebook, task list, email in a nice easy to use interface. Anything else it can do for me is just gravy.

That's why the Palm OS has met my needs for almost 10 years. But now, I just don't see much activity from the Palm camp. The one (very) bright spot I've seen is their hiring of Marc Blank. That gives me hope.

Palm is doing a decent job at keeping the current users happy.

The thing is every other variant of smart and dumb phones has catch up and surpassed the PalmOS, there is very little POS has to offer that you can't get on a smaller and better package.

I have been making fun of the ungainly blackberry for so long I felt silly when I saw the new slim and slick Blackberry phones.

i think it works better for your needs and i really don't think it "works better" than any of the competition.

resets? instability? slowness? that is not found in many of the other alternatives out there, and it's beyond just "a little thick", don't ya think?

but hey, it's all a matter of opinion in the end.

Resets? Mine hasn't reset in weeks.

Instability? If it doesn't reset, how is it not stable?

Slowness? Yeah, a little, but (in my case, at least) it's not all the bad. Worst case, a few seconds between apps.

The biggest issue seems to be Bluetooth, which I don't use and don't care about. And Winmob is far from perfectly stable, for that matter.

Getting back to my original point: Palm OS and it's apps are just plain easier to use, in almost every case. Fewer taps, clicks and steps when navigating around and between apps. Easier to use without a stylus. No long menus to scroll through trying to find some option in tiny type. THAT'S how the Palm OS works better.

But, as you suggest, to each his own. I looked at the Pearl: hated the keyboard, found the apps very limiting, and don't like the hardware interface nearly as much. But if it makes you happy, go for it.

Slowness? Yeah, a little, but (in my case, at least) it's not all the bad. Worst case, a few seconds between apps.

The biggest issue seems to be Bluetooth, which I don't use and don't care about. And Winmob is far from perfectly stable, for that matter.

Getting back to my original point: Palm OS and it's apps are just plain easier to use, in almost every case. Fewer taps, clicks and steps when navigating around and between apps. Easier to use without a stylus. No long menus to scroll through trying to find some option in tiny type. THAT'S how the Palm OS works better.

An inherently simpler OS that has to make do with shortcomings due to that simplicity.

This is not true. Both devices can go head to head on a bulletpoint list of features (note: Multitasking is how the system works, do you see Palm say "Multitasks!!!" on the list of features of the 700wx?) and both are equally limited when compared to a laptop, including Windows Mobile. Pocket Internet Explorer is no Internet Explorer, but it sure is great compared to Blazer.

I would have to disagree. The PalmOS is definitely more limited than a WM device.

1. A WM phone device can (and many do) have wifi. If you're in an area with no signal or if you want faster data access (Ex: if you don't have EvDO in your area), a PalmOS Treo is useless as far as data goes because there's no real wifi solution.

2. WM's support for multitasking allows it to support simultaneous voice and data, required for UMTS/HSDPA and EvDO Rev A. Why is the 680 still stuck at EDGE speeds? Because PalmOS can't multitask to do simultaneous voice and data for UMTS/HSDPA, while the 750 does it just fine. Power wise, the 680 and the 750 aren't too different, but the OS makes all the difference in the functionality of the device.

Of course they won't put multitasking in the list of features, because it wouldn't really make sense to. Not only would the average Joe not understand it, but it would make more sense to indirectly list the benefits derived from multitasking (such as wifi support and 3G data) rather than saying that the device can multitask.

Well that just said voice dialing. Not bluetooth voice dialing, but just voice dialing. Not saying it isn't a possibility, but more likely than not, it's just going to be voice dialing over the speakerphone. The 650, 700p, and 680 are all perfectly capable of voice dialing, they just don't come with the software to do so (I believe the 650 came with a trial though). All this could mean is that Palm included the software to do voice dialing via speakerphone instead of people having to purchase it separately.

Well that's your case, many people experience resets quite frequently I know when me and my gf send memos to each other, if the memo is too long (like 8 lines or more), it can cause the receiving treo to reset. Pretty lame if you ask me. Not even a 3rd party software issue. The thing I've noticed is that even with nothing more than calendar, emails, and contacts on the device, the PalmOS is still prone to resets, at least on my 650 and on my gf's 650. It's not so frequent that it make me want a different device, but at the same time, I've never had anything reset more than my treo. Even on incoming calls I would get resets. Then I'd have to take random guesses at who might have called me when my phone reset.

Instability? If it doesn't reset, how is it not stable?

I think the point was that his did/does reset, leading him to believe PalmOS isn't a stable platform.

Slowness? Yeah, a little, but (in my case, at least) it's not all the bad. Worst case, a few seconds between apps.

There are some people who report seeing the white screen for very long times, if you look in the 700p forum, you'll find more about it.

The biggest issue seems to be Bluetooth, which I don't use and don't care about. And Winmob is far from perfectly stable, for that matter.

And the PalmOS can only be much further away from perfectly stable. I know WM isn't perfect stable either, but I know that my experiences with WM have been a lot less frustrating (in terms of stability) than my own with PalmOS. The difference is that if PalmOS doesn't like something, the whole device is reset, and sometimes it can even fall into a reset loop. With WM, usually it's just that one program that freezes, allowing you to close it and continue on, instead of having to restart the whole device.

Getting back to my original point: Palm OS and it's apps are just plain easier to use, in almost every case. Fewer taps, clicks and steps when navigating around and between apps. Easier to use without a stylus. No long menus to scroll through trying to find some option in tiny type. THAT'S how the Palm OS works better.

This is definitely one thing I'll miss if/when I jump ship. Although PalmOS is easier and more intuitive, I prefer functionality over form and functionality is where WM whoops PalmOS. Apart from the aforementioned multitasking, there are some little things that WM has that makes life easier (native MP3 ringtone support, email subfolder sync, etc, and some others)