But i thought the argument was, we shouldn't try to teach then things they are too young to understand, and i am being told here, that 1st graders are
still learning how to wipe their butts, so they don't understand gender like boy or girl yet. So why use labels they can't understand?

Ahh, so your argument is that children that young do indeed know the difference between boy and girl. So, it is possible for a child born as a boy
physically to know in his brain that he is in fact a she. Because kids know the difference.

Labels suck yeah... but adults labelling children as boys and girls is just fine and dandy. They'll deal with it. There will be casualties, but these
labels must be defended at all costs D:

Adults, eh?

It is not about the dress or about the children. It is about the adults.

I agree! Silly problematic adults.

There is not need to make this an issue among children. I am around enough children to know that gender is not anything children that are
kindergarten age even think about, unless it is being pushed by an adult.

Hmm, I agree to a degree. Adults are the real problem. However, gender identity can be a major problem for some children. Even very young-uns. Others
just like to explore the bounds of gender identity, as you clearly suggest.

Let the children be children, they will have enough time to have to battle the ills that the world is ready to throw at them. At least let them
have time to grow up before we start labeling and categorizing them.

I agree! Lets not label children. Let children be children. Bloomin adults.

Let them express themselves however they like. Whether it be via innate preference, imagination, or plain old stubborness.

There are many cultures where young boys wear bows, feathers, multicolored thread, etc., in their hair.

I know, right! Isn't that cool? They are free to express themselves in other ways. One might even say how children express themselves can often be
determined culturally and can vary (:

Adults are the ones with the problem, and we need to stop spilling it all over the children.

I know, right! It really sucks how adults force their attitudes and preferences on children. It would be pretty cool to let them express themselves
how they like.

No I am not advocating for doing away with the terms boy and girl.

Oh? And your an adult, right?

Children will develop their sense of identity associated with the terms boy and girl.

Oh? So adults forcing labels and an associated gender identity on children is fine? Hmmm.

You know that doesn't work for all children, right?

Adults that have scars and have problems dealing with these terms, should not inflict those feelings onto a child. They may think they are
helping. I don't think they are.

So you effectively accept there are adults whom were once children that were scarred by the imposition of labels.

The labels imposed by adults.

Labels you are happy to impose.

All's fair in war and boys and girls, right?

Adults are the ones with the problem, and we need to stop spilling it all over the children.

I know, right!

I agree that it would be hard to do away with terms like 'boys' and 'girls', as you can see the sort of hissy-fits we'd have among the small-minded
'adults'.

So perhaps lets accept that we need to make room for those children who show gender variance without imposing shaming or ridicule. And even allow
children who want to explore their gender identity room to do so.

Let the children be children. Even gender variant children (:

Now go to your room and think long and hard about what you just did, lol D:

So, it is possible for a child born as a boy physically to know in his brain that he is in fact a she.

Of course. But I say, as in most cases, let puberty sort it out. I´ve no problem with transgenderism per se, just the way it´s pushed on small
children. I also had a "tomboy girlfriend" that sometimes complained she wanted to have a penis (girlfriend as in, classmate who I used to spend time
with), guess what, that changed suddenly when she became 14.

Ahh, so your argument is that children that young do indeed know the difference between boy and girl. So, it is possible for a child born as a boy
physically to know in his brain that he is in fact a she. Because kids know the difference.

a reply to: kaylaluv
Because it accepted societal terminology, and easy for children to understand. A child is born with a penis will be determined to be clinically male,
and a child born with a vagina will be clinically determined to be female. They are important clinical markers when determining the appropriate
treatment by medical personnel. So obviously it is important to be able to identify the differences.

The fact that some people want to vilify the differences, speaks more to the problems they have with their gender, than it does anything else.

I accept there are people that have problems identifying or accepting their gender and sexuality, I just don't know why they want to make this an
issue for people that don't.

Expecting people to treat you fairly doesn't start with you rejecting what they are, and demanding that they accept there in nothing wrong with you,
and insisting there is something wrong with them.

People are born male or female. To simplify it for children, boy or girl. That is just how it is. If a person believes that the mind determines your
gender and or sexuality, then what genitalia they are born with is not important. It would make the same amount of difference as being born with black
hair or red hair.

The truth is that people are born with genitalia that determine how their bodies will mature and function, even if someone doesn't like it.

What is your #ing problem? I´m trying to have a nice discussion with kayaluv (for once) and you behave like a god damn spoiled brat on ritalin.

You´re full of prejudice and childish on top of that, too.

I'm just joshing around (:

Lighten up. I agree with the other dude that adults are the problem. However, like most adults it sometimes takes children to show through the BS.
Children are often the best people to pull apart adult BS.

Applying the labels 'boy' and 'girl' goes way beyond the simple defintion of biological sex. It carries a yuge amount of associated gender-related
baggage. As I was attempting to show.

Gender variant children clearly cause major problems for some adults. The logical contortions some will perform to effectively argue against providing
a little room for these children is actually rather funny.

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