The Tea Party has succeeded in shutting down the US Government!

But instead of looking towards ways of reducing costs, Obamacare looks at ways to continue paying the HIGH costs.

THAT'S the problem.

This entire problem has been tackled wrong.

Just because something is a law (Jim Crow, segregation) doesn't instill it with validity or correctness.

I don't care? It is not for a minority faction of government to over-rule all three branches via taking the American economy hostage.

Why is that hard to understand?

You can believe what you want, but if the dems pulled this sh*& on a law they didn't like I would be calling for each and every one of them to step
down immediately. This tactic is without ambiguity crapping all over the constitution...it is basic effen civics...The LAW passed the legislative
branch....signed by the executive branch...upheld by the judicial branch...Boehner himself declared it "the law of the land" less than a year
ago.

ACA/Obamacare aside....This is effen with innocent American lives. We are approaching the Debt Ceiling Debate in days...just arguing about it cost us
the first ever downgrade in US History...what do you think is going to happen this time?

You might not see it clearly...but the GOP is bleeding heavily in this standoff.

Boehner sees it as Chemo...he knows the damage it is doing, but hopes it will be largely contained to the TP Caucus and he can regain control of the
GOP.

It is a dangerous gamble that I think he will lose. The American economy is hurting as we speak...consumer and investor confidence is falling and will
drop a cliff when the Debt Ceiling debate arrives...and recession will follow if the ceiling isn't raised AKA DEFAULT. The GOP will ALL suffer...the
Dems will gain significant seats...

The disconnect from this reality is like the GOPs "unskewed polls" going into the election...how on earth can smart people not see it? Or are they
just cheering economic apocalypse and the demise of the GOP mainstream in some deluded dream that American voters will look to the TP to fill the
void?

The Quinnipiac poll also shows Democrats with a 9-point lead on the 2014 House generic ballot -- a historically wide edge, despite the structural
advantages that make a Democratic takeover of the House unlikely.

Overall, the poll shows voters are split on the health care law: 45 percent support it, while 47 percent oppose it. Other polls have shown stronger
opposition to the law, however.

But despite their overall ambivalence toward the law, voters oppose efforts to defund it. Just 34 percent think Congress should cut off funding,
and support is even lower when those defunding efforts are tied to a government shutdown (22 percent) or raising the debt limit (27 percent). A wide
majority, 72 percent, oppose shutting down the government to cut off funding the health care law

You're absolutely correct, anything the IRS as contact with which could effect how you prepare your tax return and then effect how much your actual
return is,,,,, is a tax.

Basically, the only thing the IRS can do to make you pay the mandate fine is to take it out of your withholding, or withhold it from your
tax refund, if you’re due one. So if you don’t participate in the withholding process, the IRS has no way to collect the mandate
fine.

The unprecedented amount of bunk, funded surveys on this issue makes sorting out the accurate truth on Doctors perception very difficult.

whyamIhere
People were elected promising to fight this law to the bitter end.

Cruz ran spots on Fox raising millions to fight this law.

We might not like the method these Reps are using.

But, They are accountable only in their own districts.

Correct...But they have been apportioned disproportionate power in Congress.

Are you aware that if a "Clean" spending resolution was actually brought to the floor right now it would pass?

If The House is the "People's house of representatives" then those Representatives should have the right to vote?

Instead we have the TP Caucus threatening the House Leader with insurrection if he brings a clean resolution to the floor for a vote.

The House is broken...it does not represent the people. If a vote was had on a clean resolution and to re-open government this afternoon...Sufficient
Republicans have publicly said they would vote YES...and many more privately.

So what are we doing here if the House is actually subverting a vote on a clean bill? They are undermining the process and the people's vote.

You may see this poll here: www.realclearpolitics.com...
and_democrats_health_care_plan-1130.html
I'm sure there are many people thinking this healthcare is like their free phones and other Government entitlements they've received. There has not
been a lot of public education about this, People truly believe it's going to be FREE!
Their Stupid, they watch Honey BoBo and Dancing With The Stars or some thing just as ignorant.
It's not going to work and the Dem's are going to feel the pain for this mistake.
Every body, just keep on drinking that, It's The T P & Republicans Fault, it's not, some one some place actually listened to the majority and delay
the Cluster F@@@!

edit on 2-10-2013 by guohua because: (no reason given)

edit on 2-10-2013 by guohua because: (no reason
given)

Here you go this say's it all right here, the Dem's are just upset and telling LIES! It's Not Working,,,, and Reid would rather let a Child with
cancer not receive treatment just to thumb his nose at the Republicans.

All Americans Want Affordable Healthcare, But Not With The Government Demanding You Do It Their Way Or Else!

"It's real simple. Republicans tried 42 times to repeal Obamacare and failed. They challenged it in the Supreme Court and it was declared
constitutional. It is the law of the land, period. So, since they lost the 2012 election and failed at every attempt to repeal the law in a legal
manner, they subvert the American legislative process and (unconstitutionally) refuse to post a new debt ceiling, preferring to see the US and
possibly the world suffer from a real and potentially catastrophic economic downturn which THEY created.

There is not one reason, legally or constitutionally or even ethically that the Democrats should let the republicans get their way with this political
stunt. It's extortion for the repubs to do what they're doing and it sets a harmful precedent. It could possibly destroy the American system of
government.

During Reagan's term the Democrats raised the debt ceiling dozens of times without ever tying their personal agenda to the process. The same is true
during the Bush administration, it was never used as a political weapon against the American people.

What the republicans are doing is terrorism. They have shut down the US gov't which even Al Qaida could never hope to accomplish no matter how
much they would love to do so.

# you republicans! I happen to love America AND the constitution and you could not be more damaging to both if you tried."

You need to re-look at your facts,,,, you have a strange way of distorting history to fit your view I've noticed.
President Reagan actually vetoed the bills and shut the government down himself to make a point or get his way.

Tea Party Republicans are thrilled about taking away benefits from millions of needy Americans, but they're losing in the long run

ROBIN MARTY
OCTOBER 1, 2013 11:30 AM ET
Is there anything as exciting as a government shutdown? Not for Tea Party Republicans. As the hours ticked away prior to the first government shutdown
in 17 years last night, the nation's most extreme right-wing legislators were already congratulating themselves on expressing the so-called will of
the people by grinding the federal government to a halt. "We're very excited," Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-Minnesota) told the Washington Post. "It's
exactly what we wanted, and we got it."

In many ways, a shutdown was inevitable from the moment the GOP's extremist fringe took over the party a few years back. The Republican class of 2010
was elected with the explicit intention of driving the government straight off a cliff. The only question was how many passengers they were taking
with them and whether they were going to hit the gas as they headed over the edge. This week, we found out.

Bachmann laid out the Tea Party philosophy yesterday in an interview with arch-conservative site WND.com. "President Obama can't wait to get Americans
addicted to the crack coc aine of dependency on more government health care," she said. "All they want to do is buy love from people by giving
them massive government subsidies."

See the Seven Most Extreme State Laws Proposed This Year

What kind of "massive government subsidies" is Bachmann so worked up about? Programs like the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women,
Infants and Children, which will likely lose all of its funding thanks to the shutdown – potentially leaving millions of low-income women, babies
and small children hungry. The same thing may happen to Temporary Assistance to Needy Families, causing many more Americans to go unfed. If the
shutdown continues, disabled veterans could lose their pay next.

If the Republicans are literally willing to take food out of the mouths of babies to try and stop Obamacare, is it still worth fighting them? The
answer, according to Affordable Care Act supporters like Sen. Angus King (I-Maine), is absolutely yes. "That's a scandal," King recently said of
Republican efforts to discourage young people from purchasing insurance. "Those people are guilty of murder in my opinion. Some of those people they
persuade are going to end up dying because they don't have health insurance. For people who do that to other people in the name of some obscure
political ideology is one of the grossest violations of our humanity I can think of."

Today, the federal government is shut down because of Republicans' zealous opposition to helping poor Americans. Families across the country are
worrying about how far they can stretch their meals. Federal employees (though not members of Congress) are wondering if they'll be able to pay their
mortgages this month. Disabled veterans aren't sure how much longer they can count on the benefits they earned in battle.

But despite the Republicans' best efforts, the calendar still reads October 1st – which means the Affordable Care Act's most important provision has
taken effect. The health care exchanges are now open to any uninsured person who wants coverage. For millions of Americans – including the 6 out of
10 uninsured who say they don't want Obamacare defunded – that's a victory.

No fascist government has ever conquered the USA and no fascist political force will triumph today.
This has become much more than a battle between right and left wing ideologies - It has now become a question
of whether the Republic will stand an internal attack by political ideologues trying to circumnavigate a legally
elected government.

I have children and grandchildren. I have given this argument much thought. Too bad for them. Maybe they will learn from their predecessors
mistakes and not repeat history. We did not learn a darn thing from Viet Nam. Who has been, will be, paying for those two wars and residual veteran
expenses into perpetuity? Since the Iraqi oil paying for the war did not work out. Who, the CEO's, bankers, war hawks, the rich who got rich off
the wars?

Yes, many political causes are disingenuous they are tools of power brokers and used by power brokers to manipulate people. Liberty has become one of
the most hypocritical words in the English language - PLEASE TELL ME WHAT IS FREE??? I suppose you could say the air is free - but it is polluted,
like politics has become, polluted, hypocritical, and disingenuous - maybe it was always that way from the time Cane slew Able and then was protected
by God - Why? There begins the human circus as a history of hell.

When I read Nietzsche the famous German philosopher who wrote "Beyond Good and Evil" many many years ago I found it most enlightening - Nietzsche
was really good at tearing apart the absurd conclusions of many other intellects and showing how they reach conclusions not based upon the world we
live in showing they were dumb and more important Nietzsche pointed out what was, and still is, the obvious
- ALL OF HISTORY IS A POWER STRUGGLE, NOTHING MORE AND NOTHING LESS.
Liberty, equality, fraternity sounds good doesn't it? But who were they talking about? Do you think the Constitution of the United States makes all
men equal and makes you free - on paper only. In the real world what makes you free is money
the more money you have the freer you are. Can you right now book a flight to Vegas, gamble away a few thousand, party and then fly home? Many people
can and do it all the time, they have plenty of money.

So when this patriotic political right like some in the Tea Party and some Libertarians complains about government interfering with their right
because government is giving poor people enough to eat - and then screams bloody murder because some believe they should have the health care they
need to survive and that this impinges on their Constitutional liberty - I say there is no hell deep enough or long enough for them to burn in.
"Also Spoke Zarathustra"

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