With regards to modern cars we have been working hard to make our rates as competitive as we can and will always offer you the best rate possible. We also offer discounts for multi-vehicles. We understand this may not always be the cheapest quote available but would point out that our benefits/features often exceed those of our competitors.

With regards to the "over 10 or 20 years" question the price we offer would apply based on the age of vehicle at the point the cover is taken out. You would still receive the free and automatic salvage retention if your vehicle is over 20 years of age at the time of a loss, even if it wasn't over 20 years of age when the policy was taken out.

Finally, regarding small print and renewal amendments. I cannot comment on your individual circumstances. There are rare occasions where policy benefits or terms may have changed and would always urge customers to check their documents at renewal. Customers receive a notice if a change applies during the course of a policy. Changes in premium over a previous year could be driven by a number of factors such as claims or convictions or changes in policy coverage/terms/benefits.

If you need to discuss particulars with your own policy then I would invite you to message me your details in private.

Kind regards,
Scott

Darren C wrote:Hi Scott,

I have had a RH classic car, multi car policy for 15 years now with you guy's.

For ease a few years ago I added my everyday car on so the policy at the time had 7 classics and 1 modern car. I found it non competitive and expensive to add a modern car, the premium was much higher for that car than almost anywhere else (in fact I got it for less than half what you wanted in the end with another insurer). My point is that loyalty has little influence on the rates. I assumed as I'd been with you over 10 years at the time you'd automatically offer a good deal, not so.
Also the threshold on car age is deceptive. You say over 10 years or over 20 years old. In reality the benefits didn't apply for me until the car is 11 years or 21 years old. So this needs making clear. Also if the car turns 11 years old 1 week into the insurance year the benefits didn't apply until the following year when technically the car is all but 1 week off 12 years old.
Additionally each year at renewal I have to carefully check the RH small print as items that were covered the year before weren't covered on the renewal. This is bloomin annoying when for example I've had wedding cover on my cars for years then year before last RH took it off without explanation at renewal, and increased the premium??? I then had to contact you to add it back on.

Overall the classic premiums are good (wouldn't touch the modern car policies with a barge pole) as is the service. But the trust is lost at renewal when data is not transferred from one year to the next.

1) We are able to offer a letter confirming the length of time on the policy and claims history. It would then be the discretion of the new insurer on what they wanted to do with this information.

2) For vehicles that are on a classic car rate we do not use NCB. You can however transfer a NCB to another vehicle (non-classic car rate) which you own and we can issue proof of NCB.

3) We have no upper age limit and we do not decline risks at renewal based on age. Other individual circumstances would appear to apply to your point.

4) Unfortunately you appear to have misinterpreted the endorsement. The endorsement states that if the vehicle is at your home or nominated garaging address then you must garage it between 10pm and 6am. If the vehicle is away from the address then there is no requirement to garage the vehicle. We will be reviewing the wording of the endorsement as a result of your comments.

Kind regards,
Scott

Darren C wrote:
1, NCB Young drivers on a "classic policy" do not build any NCB
2, Retention of NCB. I have been fortunate enough to own multiple cars for over 30 years now. Each in the old days had amassed its own NCB on separate policies. When transferring to RH multi car policy, I "lost" 2 individual 10 year plus NCB's
To make matters worse when one of my Bentley's that I bought new became 10 years old I enquired about reverting it to a "classic" policy with you (Was already insured on a modern policy with RH) on a classic policy the premium dropped dramatically. Unfortunately if I reverted to a classic policy I would loose this set of 10 years NCB as well! It really was a case of cheaper insurance and loose NCB or expensive insurance and keep NCB (both policies offered the same cover) WHY ? This was a hard pill to swallow as the premium on the first 10 years with RH had cost me over £20K, I'd never made a claim and now to qualify for a reduced premium I would loose the NCB.
3. Age. I have several friends in car clubs who are elderly. Most are very sharp and active yet two long term club members had insurance declined on their 80th birthdays with RH. There were no medical or DVLA related limitations on their license it was just age.
4. Cinderella clauses. (Read your small print everyone) Why oh why wont your RH classic policies insure for theft after 10pm at night unless the car is at home in a locked garage? This does limit enjoyment and isn't always practical if you go on a rally or visit friends etc.

Thanks for your comments. We appreciate that our agreed valuation process may require more work than with our competitors however we believe that the vehicle should be valued by somebody who has no direct connection with that vehicle, or the insurers of that vehicle.

Kind regards,
Scott

Yellow Peril wrote:Hi Scott,
I've used your company for years, as has my father and no complaints although (thankfully) we've never had to claim. We currently have our MX5 and My Scimitar Coupe insured with you.
However, some insurers make it much easier to place an agreed value on the policy in that you can place a value on it yourself and provide supporting evidence. RH's requirement that the car is inspected by a club member is time consuming and costs (albeit not too much).
Just a thought
Regards,
Richard

In the event of a total loss occurring on a vehicle where there is no agreed value then our claims department would use a variety of tools and expertise to determine the value of the vehicle at the time of loss. The amount would be capped at the amount that has been provided by the customer.

If during the year a vehicle has increased in value, such as the example you have given, then the customer would need to notify us of the change in value and pay any appropriate additional premium. It's worth pointing out that we do not charge any administration fees for this (many of our competitors do).

Should an incident happen, such as the example you have given, then we would examine the history of the policy to determine whether the value has been regularly reviewed. If this is the case then we would discuss with the customer. This would be assessed on a case-by-case basis.

Kind regards,
Scott

Darren C wrote:Ok Scott,

What about the old chestnut…value.

In the classic car market some values have gone through the roof in the last 3 years and it is also fair to say that classic cars tend to hold or increase in value rather than depreciate.
With this in mind at renewal I always adjust the value of each of my cars with you.

My question is, in the event of a total loss claim would I get the value I have put down at renewal or the market value? Is this loaded on the side of the insurer, ie if my car depreciates you pay out the lower market price, if the car increases in value the amount you pay out is capped by my renewal valuation?

I’m not talking about “agreed value” as this is also a pain if your car appreciates over the year and isn’t worth the agro and is detrimental for this reason. I’m talking about what do you actually pay out on; market value?

For example take a RHD 330 GT 2+2 series 1.

This time last year they were only fetching £90-120K. Today if you can find one the cheapest currently at Joe Macari’s (which isn’t the best example) is £225K and the Goodwood Bonhams auction recently sold one for £450K.
In this example I get an agreed value of £120k last year at insurance renewal, this summer I have a total loss claim. To replace the car with a similar condition car now is somewhere north of £250K, yet I with best intention agreed a value last year of £120K. Would I be £130K out of pocket in a claim?

Without calling you each month to up the value and you bill me the increase in insurance, what’s the best way to cover this?

Having just poked the bear, I’ve got several cars in this situation so it’s of great importance to know what RH offers.

The question that is really important to me was the last one. I own 1 of the remaining 20 RHD 330GT 2+2's, plus other vintage Ferrari's & Aston Martin, where the value has quadrupled in the last 2-3 years. Contacting you each month as the market value rises is both a pain in the neck and costly to keep topping up my insurance premium when I've got a 12 month fixed price "contract" with you.
Surely it should be RH that takes the risk on markets increasing after all it's the risk business your in?
Would it not be fairer to just insure a car and in the event of a total loss claim, you just replace the vehicle like for like (regardless of cost) After all that's all the owner wants.
In this way you win if the market crashes over the year of the insurance and loose if it rises. That's the risk an insurer should take, not the policy owner keep paying you more and more money over the year to cover a fluctuating market.
Or look at it another way, if you have a normal car it is common practice for it to depreciate over the year, I've NEVER seen an insurance refund every month because the cars worth less. Sure as eggs are eggs you'd only pay market value on a depreciating car.
So on that basis it's completely unjust to ask for more money if the car increases in value.

Darren - Scott has said that he's not going to comment on individual cases in an open forum, so I think it is time you took this particular discussion off-forum and deal with Scott directly. If he can't help you, then I'm sure you will do what everyone else does and vote with their feet/cheque book..

Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 ValveSS1 Racerhttp://www.ss1turbo.comNever try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

As far as I can tell Phil, It's Market value until the value increases above what you tell them the market value is at the time of taking out the policy. If it goes down they win, if it goes up they win by capping your payout to what you said at the policy start.
Here lies my moral problem

Darren - Scott has said that he's not going to comment on individual cases in an open forum, so I think it is time you took this particular discussion off-forum and deal with Scott directly. If he can't help you, then I'm sure you will do what everyone else does and vote with their feet/cheque book..

Sorry Phil,

I thought this would be an interesting and appropriate conversation topic to share on any classic car forum?

Perhaps a fairer question to Scott - can you simplify the method we use to amend our agreed values (eg a simple online form)? I have no problem with paying the Club to inspect the car every year (I'm sure if it was a rare Fiat, a rate could be agreed with the owners club for monthly assessments).

The principle of the question is a fair point - how do Insurers ensure they treat their customers fairly if market values jump within a policy term. One of the lines in the Forum Guidelines and Rules (excuse the lack of exact quotation) - "attack the post, not the poster". I would agree that changing agreed values on vehicles on a monthly basis isn't a practical situation for most. On the flip side, would one allow an insurer to reduce an agreed value payout on the basis of "current market values"?

Phil Howard
Scimitarweb Forum Admin
SS1 1600 Rooster Turbo; Sabre Mk1.5, Sabre Mk2
Previous: SE5/5a/SS1 No.1/SS1 Rooster/SS1 1800Ti/SE5a 24 ValveSS1 Racerhttp://www.ss1turbo.comNever try and argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you based on experience.

No attack intended, just my blunt and to the point approach to the subject to hopefully gain a clear answer.

Classic car values are overall, "on the up" so whether it's £500 or £500K rise it kinda affects us all, regardless of marque.
I'm certain most of us would like to have security in knowing what we can expect to get in a claim reflects market value.
I can totally understand the insurer wanting more money to cover a car half way through the year if the market value increases, but it has to be a fair system that if it wants to play by that rule, equally refunds your premium if your car depreciates or the market crashes.
Agreed value is agreed value, any deviation of this form of insurance just muddies the water.

I now have Josh's GTE and my Sabre with RH. I put Josh's car with RH when I sold the Porsche to avoid a cancellation fee and added the Sabre because they were very good (cheap) about the modifications made to the Sabre which I use for sprinting and Hillclimbs.

When I received the paperwork it said "No" to club member which I queried. I was told that RH do not offer any discount to RSSOC members unlike other clubs (Stag/ Morris RR/ Bentley. I did query this but was told this was the case.

Why does the RSSOC not get a discount when they advertise through the club magazine and web site

I understand what you are saying Andy but my understanding of a discount is that it applies to the price normally charged (whether it be high or low). Anyways we currently aren't getting anything which I find surprising given RH's advertising through the Club and their presence on this forum