k-man, there is :) http://download.opensuse.org/repositories/Education/images/iso/

03:06

live DVD

03:06

<k-man>

cyberorg: what are my chances of it being able to use my wireless card in my notebook

03:06

<cyberorg>

what card?

03:06

<k-man>

i think its an intel - its at home so I can't tell you exactly right now

03:07

<cyberorg>

you know what firmware it runs?

03:07

<k-man>

hmm... no

03:08

<Drakonen>

hello, i hav e aproblem with xrdp and ltsp. we have some small "chippc"s which do rdp. we want to connect them to ltsp, but when the xrdp session starts, it looks like they are in a different X environment. when i PXE boot an other machine, it looks fine (and i can configure it better). does anyone here know how to make xrdp use the same resources as a PXE booted session?

03:08

<cyberorg>

ok, give it a try and let us know how it went :)

03:08

<k-man>

thanks cyberorg

03:08

<Drakonen>

i hope that makes sense

03:09

<cyberorg>

Drakonen, no it doesn't, what resources?

03:09

<Drakonen>

the chrooted env, which is used when using pxe booting

03:09

does it use that?

03:10

how do i know actually if im chrooted or not?

03:11

<cyberorg>

Drakonen, does the chippc have an embedded OS? if so it will not use ltsp's chroot, LTSP however can also do rdesktop to connect to xrdp server

03:11

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03:12

<Drakonen>

the chip pcs's have win ce or something like that, and they can do rdp

03:12

i have xrdp installed, and its working

03:12

<cyberorg>

can chippc do pxe booting?

03:12

<Drakonen>

but, it looks different (like the theme settings are missing)

03:13

cyberorg: not that i know of

03:13

i'll have to check

03:13

*doing now*

03:16

doesnt look like it

03:17

<cyberorg>

so there is no way for it to use ltsp's chroot

03:17

<Drakonen>

can i make xrdp use the chroot?

03:19

<cyberorg>

chroot does not have anything to do with xrdp, it is just minimal OS that starts rdesktop/ldm

03:20

<Drakonen>

aaaah

03:20

that makes sense

03:24

when i start something from the preferences pane, i get an error: :unable to starts the settings manager 'gnome-settings-daemon'. ..."

TheProf, I noticed in the release notes for 5.3 that there seemed to be some 'regressions' but nothing related to mdadm

11:23

(just some obscure stuff we care about in my office, not ltsp related)

11:24

<TheProf>

pscheie_: OK. it's strange because I tried it with two entirely different computers - a Pentium 1 and a P4 celeron. Completely different except for the drives.

11:25

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11:25

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11:25

<pscheie_>

TheProf, but you got the same result on both machines?

11:26

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11:27

<TheProf>

pscheie_: yes - same problem with both.

11:30

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11:30

<pscheie_>

TheProf, sounds like a filesystem limitation; and '137GB' rings a bell, but I can't put my finger on it.

11:30

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11:31

<pscheie_>

TheProf, did you try just setting up one drive separately? That is, partition, create filesystem, then run df?

11:35

<TheProf>

pscheie_: Ends up I'm quoting the wrong size limit - 126 (not 137) GB

11:36

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11:36

<TheProf>

I will try mounting one drive individually and running DF just to make sure.

11:39

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11:39

<maginot>

can someone give me a tip of a good gigabit nic model ? I will buy 35 new ethernet cards and dont want to make anymistake

11:41

<TheProf>

pscheie_: I just tried to do as you recommended and it didn't work! I unmounted the raid, stopped the raid, and then mounted the individual drive with mount /dev/hdc /mnt/network_backup and then df and it only reports 126 GB

11:41

this is bizarre

11:43

<pscheie_>

TheProf, but that's progress of a sort: the issue is the file system, not the raid

11:44

<TheProf>

pscheie_: True.

11:44

THere is nothing of value on these drives so if we need to blow everything away we can if that will help.

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11:51

<dmarkey>

stgraber: hey, a few problems

11:52

recent implementations dont set up ltspfs unless LDM is used

11:52

debian etch works great, intrepid doesnt though

11:53

so, is there a few commands i can execute before rdesktop to make USB devices work

11:53

or anyone?

11:54

<stgraber>

dmarkey: intrepid won't work, you need my PPA or jaunty

11:54

intrepid's version is too old

11:54

<dmarkey>

stgraber: how come it works 100% in etch

11:55

everything got mounted in /media/root

11:56

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11:56

<MRH2>

hi xorg related question - do the SiS drivers still leave alot to be desired?

11:56

<dmarkey>

hmm.. actually it might be sid

11:56

<TheProf>

pscheie_: Just have to go into a meeting for 30 minutes and then I will return. Thank you.

11:57

<stgraber>

dmarkey: etch has a backport

11:57

I believe you're using vagrantc's backport for Debian right ?

11:57

<dmarkey>

stgraber: i'm using sqeeze in the chroot

11:57

that would explain it?

11:59

<stgraber>

yes

11:59

you'd need jaunty in Ubuntu to get the same version of LTSP

12:00

<dmarkey>

hmm.. i might stick with squeeze then

12:00

though i'm trying to test on a load of different thin clients, getting xserver issues, thought ubuntu might have been better in that regard

12:02

<stgraber>

Ubuntu has some fix in Jaunty for most of the thin clients I have at the office

12:03

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12:03

<stgraber>

mainly DisklessWorkstation, Asus, WySE, Webdt and a few global opensource

12:03

these fix are included in LTSP when it's known to apply to all distributions but it's not yet the case for all of them

12:04

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12:09

<dmarkey>

its the Dell thin client we're having issues with

12:10

<stgraber>

FX160 ?

12:11

<MRH2>

that brings to to my SiS chipset capability question

12:11

it's the Dell 160 I was thinking about buying

12:11

<stgraber>

it's not supported

12:11

there was an experimental driver in Intrepid (from a PPA) but in Jaunty the best you get is VESA

12:12

I guess someone is still working on a real driver for these SIS chipsets

12:12

even the onboard Linux on the FX160 is using VESA

12:12

<MRH2>

ok that's it off my list then

12:12

shame they didn;t go for intel

12:13

<dmarkey>

stgraber: thanks

12:13

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12:13

<dmarkey>

does the res setect OK with vesa?

12:13

detect

12:13

<stgraber>

nope

12:13

even the SIS driver couldn't detect the resolution

12:13

you have to force it by hand with X_RANDR_MODE0 (or similar)

12:14

<dmarkey>

oh really

12:14

can i have different x configs for different clients

12:14

<stgraber>

yeah, I have 20 of them in a room next to mine :)

12:15

you can, assigning it by mac address

12:15

<dmarkey>

how are they catagorised in the chroot?

12:15

<stgraber>

(in lts.conf)

12:15

<dmarkey>

oh

12:15

hmm

12:15

nig admin cost, can it not be done by lspci?

12:15

big*

12:15

or product number etc?

12:16

<stgraber>

not really, as you can't guess what the screen resolution is

12:16

it's just not possible to know it

12:16

anyway, got to go now

12:16

<dmarkey>

ok thanks for your help

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12:28

<_fang>

hi guys... anyone knows if it is possible to run webcams or fingerprint scanners with ltsp? as far as i could get it is not possible, but maybe someone got it running

12:30

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12:37

<Lns>

_fang: with localapps I'm sure it's plausible, as long as you can use it on a local install of the same OS

12:44

<dmarkey>

is it possible to have a kernel spashscreen to hide the linuyx startup messages

12:45

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12:45

<Lns>

dmarkey: AFAIK there should be one by default on all LTSP installs, unless you disabled it in the tftp kernel boot config (or your video card doesn't support framebuffer or something weird like that)

12:46

<dmarkey>

hm.. i copied the initrd off the LTSP server and to another tftp server

12:47

and vmlinuz

12:48

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12:51

<Lns>

dmarkey: not sure then

12:52

<dmarkey>

Lns: hadnt the splash argument

12:52

<Lns>

CAN-o-SPAM: hey how come the new logo isn't on your site yet? =)

12:52

<dmarkey>

silly me

12:52

<Lns>

dmarkey: minor detail ;)

12:52

<dmarkey>

Lns: a kernel recompile is needed to rebrand that?

12:52

<Lns>

dmarkey: i don't think so

12:52

<dmarkey>

oh?

12:52

is it in the initrd?

12:53

<Lns>

i haven't ever done that though, so not sure

12:54

<CAN-o-SPAM_>

Lns: new logo should be on ltsp.org next week

12:54

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12:54

<Treyh>

hey guys

12:55

<Lns>

CAN-o-SPAM: cool. Do we have permission to use the logo when talking about ltsp, say, on our website?

think it's possible this error is because my server/client are on virtualbox?

13:18

<alkisg>

What kind of networking? Host, internal etc?

13:18

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13:18

<Treyh>

right now it's internal

13:19

<TheProf>

pscheie_: My apologies -- the meeting took longer than I thought.

13:19

Any thoughts on why the drive would report a different size using df than using fdisk or mdadm?

13:19

<alkisg>

Treyh: Should work fine... maybe there's some misconfiguration in your server nbd service. Gotta go though :(, good luck :)

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13:22

<pscheie_>

TheProf, ext3, which I assume you're using, has filesystem sizes in the TB range, so it seems unlikely that's where the problem lies.

13:24

TheProf, what if you try a different distro/kernel? Say, boot a knoppix disk in the machine, work with that, see if you get the same results

13:24

<TheProf>

pscheie_: You are correct it's ext3 -- I used that type to create the partition.

13:24

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13:25

<TheProf>

pscheie_: I understand what you're saying -- I am just confused as to why some parts of the OS see the 400 GB and du doesn't. I don't have access right now to anything else since I have ssh access only now but I can try that option also.

13:26

pscheie_: could it be I partitioned/fdisked the drives wrong?

13:26

<pscheie_>

TheProf, perhaps. Could also be this:

13:27

https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/59059

13:27

although this is ubuntu

13:28

<TheProf>

Well it's almost identical issue!

13:29

Strange - I used two different motherboards and got the same issue. I'll try going through their list of steps

13:29

<pscheie_>

Are the mobos from different manufacturers?

13:30

<TheProf>

They are completely different machines. about 10 years apart. I will check the manufacture now

13:35

pscheie_: both are Intel motherboards.

13:35

One was a pentium II 550 Mhz, this is a celeron 2.0 ghz

13:36

The drives are both indentical seagate drives

13:37

<pscheie_>

TheProf, try splitting the drives into multiple partitions, see if you at least see them all/ can access them, just to try to narrow the issue.

13:37

<TheProf>

pscheie_: ok will do so now

13:38

<Lns>

TheProf: i'd rule out that the drives simply weren't partitioned the differently before you do anything else...

13:38

<TheProf>

Lns: Sorry I don't understand.

13:39

<Lns>

TheProf: how big are the drive sizes?

13:39

<pscheie_>

Lns, I think he gets the same result with just a single drive, no raid; but you are correct, that should be verified.

13:40

<Lns>

TheProf: also, i'm hoping you meant 'df' not 'du'

13:40

<TheProf>

they are 400 gb. fdisk reports 400 gb correctly.

13:40

<pscheie_>

TheProf, suggest you leave out all the raid stuff just to keep it simple.

13:40

<TheProf>

Yes I meant df

13:40

pscheie_: I've stopped the raid

13:40

and only mounted one drive

13:41

<Lns>

TheProf: have you verified that the partition(s) on the drive take up the entire drive?

13:41

<TheProf>

fdisk -l /dev/hdc shows me:

13:41

<Lns>

(df will give you numbers based on the filesystem, not the actual drive size obviously so if the partition doesn't take up the whole drive, you aren't going to see it in 'df')

13:41

<TheProf>

2 heads, 4 sectors/track, 97677846 cylinders and that

13:42

dev/hdc1 1 97677824 390711294 83 Linux

13:42

so from what I can understand, the drive has 97677846 cyl

13:42

and that they are all being used with hdc1

13:43

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13:43

<TheProf>

if it's easier I can either 1) remove and recreate the partition or 2) remove and create multiple partitions to test

13:44

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13:44

<Lns>

well the fdisk info does look like it takes up the whole drive.. i could see that the older PII might not see the whole drive, but not the celery 2.0

13:45

well that's not true actually...might want to verify w/the mobo/bios support

13:45

<TheProf>

I was getting annoyed with how it wasn't working with the old machine (it was actually a PI but I upgraded the CPU) so I pulled everything out and slapped them into a new one.

13:45

<Lns>

TheProf: did you repartition after you put it in the new one?

13:46

<TheProf>

Lns: No.

13:46

I can do that now.

13:46

<Lns>

TheProf: is it possible it has a drive overlay software on it from an old install?

13:46

* Lns is just throwing out ideas

13:47

<TheProf>

Lns: all ideas are welcome :) they are newly purchased refurbished drives. The machine has the OS on a 6 GB drive then these for RAID

13:47

I can just to make sure, delete the partitions and recreate them now.

13:47

I tried using cfdisk but it won't start - generates an error so I'll use fdisk

13:47

<Lns>

TheProf: what's the error?

13:48

<TheProf>

fatal error - cannot seek on disk drive.

13:48

but that could reference the OS drive

13:48

<Lns>

yikes

13:49

<Treyh>

when you run ltsp-build-client on intrepid, it fails unless i specify a mirror, is that normal

13:49

<Lns>

well obviously you want to give cfdisk the drive as an argument (cfdisk /dev/hdc)

13:49

<TheProf>

Lns: doesn't matter which device.

13:50

it can't be that *3* separate drives are ALL failing

13:50

<Lns>

TheProf: were they *all* in the old machine?

13:50

<TheProf>

hmm...I think I know where this is going. Yes they all were for a few days.

13:50

<Lns>

Treyh: i wouldn't assume so.

13:50

<TheProf>

The OS was for a few weeks, the 2 new ones for a few days.

13:51

<Lns>

TheProf: if they were partitioned in the old machine i'd repartition them..that's a strange error though

13:51

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13:51

<TheProf>

I'll repartition them now

13:53

Deleted all partitions on both 400 gb drives.

13:56

<pscheie_>

TheProf, you may want to reboot; changing partitions on the non-primary drive shouldn't require a reboot, but I've seen cases where the kernel still held onto the old partition table.

13:56

If you still have trouble with the drive, that is.

13:57

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13:57

<TheProf>

pscheie_: these are non-primary drives but even after I removed the partition and quit fdisk writing the change I find that the command lshw is showing them reporting 127 Gib so I will reboot

13:57

<Treyh_>

i bet using the --mirror of ubuntu when i built the client caused my ioctl error

13:58

<TheProf>

pscheie_: hmm...I just realized I've got an fstab entry for the raid.

13:58

oh well - when it boots I'll remove it and reboot.

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14:08

<TheProf>

OK so I'm probably going to go nuts now :)

14:09

I have removed the partitions, removed the mdadm and fstab entries, and rebooted a few times just for good luck (I came from windows :) )

14:09

I type fdisk -l and get

14:09

Disk /dev/hdc: 400.0 GB, 400088457216 bytes

14:09

I type lshw (a hardware listing command) and get

14:10

size: 127GiB

14:10

it also lists it as ext3 even though there are no partitions. How is that possible?

14:12

<Lns>

TheProf: no idea..maybe it's looking at the raw device and sees ext3 remnants. I have no idea. Have you tried putting the drives in new(er) machines and partitioning them?

14:12

i'm leaning toward your BIOS/mobo at this point

14:13

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14:13

<Lns>

gotta run, bbl

14:13

<TheProf>

Lns: Thanks for your help

14:13

<Treyh_>

i haven't been keeping up with your comments

14:13

did you format it?

14:14

<TheProf>

Treyh_: Hello.

14:14

<Treyh_>

Hello TheProf

14:15

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14:15

<TheProf>

I'm having a problem where df is reporting 127 GB limit

14:15

when the drive is actually 400 gb

14:15

some commands report one size, other commands report another size

14:15

<Treyh_>

interesting

14:15

what distro you running

14:15

<TheProf>

centos 5.3

14:15

trying to make a backup machine for my ltsp server

14:15

<Treyh_>

is that end of life?

14:16

<TheProf>

so I got 2x400 GB drives for a mirror raid.

14:16

5.3? no that's just released a week ago

14:16

Good for a few more years at least

14:16

<Treyh_>

Sorry I don't keep up with CentOS

14:16

32 or 64 bit system

14:17

<TheProf>

Treyh_: No problem.

14:17

32 bit system

14:17

OS is on a 4 GB drive drive.

14:17

these are additional drives

14:17

<Treyh_>

did you completely format them

14:17

<TheProf>

to be put into a software raid array and mounted

14:18

the only step I didn't do is the specific format command. I partitioned then ran mkfs.ext3

14:19

Which I thought was the same process as formatting

14:19

<Treyh_>

yea

14:19

so you ran say fdisk /dev/hdb

14:19

then created partitions?

14:19

<TheProf>

correct

14:20

<Treyh_>

yea you did it right

14:20

<TheProf>

went with defaults for 1 full primary partition the whole size

14:20

<Treyh_>

sounds strange

14:20

<TheProf>

Indeed. I just removed all the partitions off the drive.

14:20

I will try to create one now.

14:20

<Treyh_>

do it manually

14:20

type in the size you want

14:20

and do something like 380000mb

14:21

<TheProf>

it asks me based on cylinders.

14:21

<Treyh_>

ouch

14:21

hmmm

14:21

<TheProf>

I was going by the min and max that fdisk reported

14:21

<Treyh_>

that will work unless thats wrong

14:22

<TheProf>

ok

14:23

<Treyh_>

i'm trying to think

14:23

reminds me of the times i had to install openbsd

14:23

on a mini firewall, with a flash card as a hd

14:24

<TheProf>

Nice.

14:24

I was able to enter a size rather than cylinder

14:25

<Treyh_>

cool, what size did you enter

14:26

<TheProf>

+400000M

14:26

some sort of approximation :)

14:26

<Treyh_>

lol that will probably fail

14:26

better to go with 385000M

14:26

<TheProf>

I wanted something close to 400 GB

14:26

it was accepted :)

14:26

<Treyh_>

cool

14:26

i hope it works

14:27

how long til you will know?

14:27

<TheProf>

lshw actually is reporting a larger size!

14:27

well the partition was already created.

14:27

I tried to mount it but it says that I have to specify a filesystem type

14:27

probably because I didn't format it?

14:28

<Treyh_>

thats a fdisk option

14:28

i know type 66 is for bsd

14:28

not sure about ext3

14:28

i'm an old school freebsd guy

14:28

<TheProf>

ok

14:28

<Treyh_>

but i think thats where your failure was at

14:28

your cylinder count was wrong

14:28

<TheProf>

it's automatically set to linux - type 83

14:29

I guess I need to run that mkfs.ext3 command

14:29

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14:29

<Treyh_>

yea probably wouldn't hurt

14:29

i'm reading about it now

14:30

this site says to do mkfs -t /ext3 /dev/hdb1

14:30

but just do your normal command you'reused to

14:32

it work?

14:32

<TheProf>

I just ran mkfs.ext3 -b 4096 /dev/hdb1

14:32

it's processing now.

14:32

<Treyh_>

i have to go soon

14:32

i want to know if it worked lol

14:32

<TheProf>

Me too!

14:32

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14:32

<Treyh_>

you know it kills me

14:32

ppl make things too complicated

14:32

<TheProf>

it worked!

14:32

I mounted it and ran df

14:33

dev/hdc1 367G 195M 348G 1% /mnt/network_backup

14:33

<Treyh_>

awesome

14:33

now do you know anything about ltsp on intrepid ?

14:33

lol

14:33

omg

14:33

wait

14:33

darn

14:33

didn't work

14:33

:( cry

14:34

i am thinking about just going back to fiesty

14:34

8.04

14:34

seems like ltsp works on it

14:34

but not for intrepid

14:34

<TheProf>

I am very non-experienced with LTSP beyond straightforward stuff.

14:34

So my apologies!

14:35

However I will say this channel will have someone who can answer it come along sooner or later.

So I was about right the other day that we were talking about boot times...

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15:32

<TheProf>

pscheie_: Thank you for all your help. it seems to be working once I specified the exact size in fdisk.

15:34

<pscheie_>

Yes, I saw that it looked like you were in business (I had stepped away from my desk for a while)

15:34

Glad it's working for you.

15:36

<Lns>

alkisg: ok? :)

15:37

(not sure where you're going with it, i don't remember a conversation about boot times recently :) )

15:39

<alkisg>

No, nowhere, just reporting the actual boot times, because 2-3 days ago that we talked about it I hadn't actually timed the booting process...

15:39

Nevermind :)

15:41

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15:42

<Lns>

ah

15:42

alkisg: that's kind of a long time, where does it hang up?

15:42

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15:43

<alkisg>

Lns: 50 seconds is a long time for booting a 10 year old pc?!!!

15:43

<Lns>

the hardware itself, i wouldn't think anyway, has a whole lot to do with it (as long as it's not a 486 anyway!)

15:43

the network would have much more to do with it, or a bootup-specific issue

15:44

<alkisg>

nubae was expecting them to boot in many minutes, that's why I was reporting the actual boot times...

15:44

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15:45

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15:45

<Lns>

I dunno, I have neoware via 1GHz systems booting roughly the same as PIII 550MHz machines on the same network

15:45

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15:47

<alkisg>

Lns, I agree with you, 64 mb ram and 400 mhz PCs are fine for ltsp - that's what I was saying... http://www.nubae.com/logs/ltsp20090406_pg3.html

15:48

Anyway, nevermind, I just happened to count the boot times today, no big deal

15:50

<Lns>

alkisg: ahh gotcha

15:50

* Lns doesn't have a great memory =p

15:50

<alkisg>

It's just that I keep hearing that "ltsp clients need 256 ram" lately, and I wonder why

15:50

(if no localapps are needed, of course)

15:51

<Lns>

alkisg: lately as compared to in 4.2 ?

15:51

<alkisg>

No, lately = the last few months in the mailing list, here in the irc...

15:52

<Lns>

alkisg: ah. well obviously it doesn't hurt to patch issues like the pixmap thing, localdev/localapps, the fact that ltsp5 uses distro kernel/utils instead of a totally optimized one for low power machines

15:53

alkisg: 256mb is the new 32mb ;)

15:53

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15:53

<alkisg>

Well, all those things run fine with my 64mb clients, that's all I'm saying.

15:53

<Lns>

alkisg: even with using firefox, flash/java, openoffice, etc?

15:53

under gnome ?

15:53

<alkisg>

Yes, but of course not as localapps

15:54

<Lns>

right

15:54

<alkisg>

The right click firefox bug is there, sure, but otherwise it's ok

15:54

<Lns>

i was just talking about the pixmap

15:54

that's so weird, i've never run into that problem

15:54

you've optimized ff3 right?

15:54

(via the wiki entry i made)

15:55

<alkisg>

Nah, Gadi gave me a patched library, I tested and was significantly faster, but I didn't put it at the schools

15:56

I'd like a patched SDL on the other hand :)

15:57

<Lns>

one can dream... :)

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17:31

<Treyh>

would you guys recommend using the alternative ubuntu intrepid install

17:32

or downloading intrepid and building it by hand

17:32

or using ubuntu 8.0.4.1 and building it by hand

17:32

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17:33

<ogra>

!ubuntu

17:33

<ltspbot>

ogra: "ubuntu" is a Debian based GNU/Linux distrubution that includes a Ubuntu specific version of LTSP. It can be found at http://www.ubuntulinux.org. to install ltsp on ubuntu: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuLTSP/LTSPQuickInstall

17:33

<ogra>

see the latter link

17:34

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17:34

<Treyh>

my question is which would you guys recommend

17:34

hardy or intrepid

17:34

<ogra>

intrepid

17:34

unless you want to buy commercial support for it

17:35

<Treyh>

the problem is that i've installed using the alternate cd

17:35

and installed intrepid directly and custom built it

17:35

the end result is the same

17:35

the client doesn't finish booting, the splash screen freezes on the third bar

17:36

talked to a few in here, turned on quiet splash and the errors at the bottom are normal