ModeratorLegend

Can you please logically correlate your link to your suggestion. I'm in a thread about a potential PS4++. I see a point about 7nm being focussed on GPU. I see mention of dual mega GPU driving a 4K game. Without an explanation from you explaining the connections, I'm left to string that all together myself.

At best guess, you're saying the significant GPU requirements of Anthem at 4K60 shows more need for GPU power than CPU. That ignores the CPU differential between these PCs and consoles. Massively increasing the GPU power without improving the CPU power will create a very lop-sided platform. Think how much more GPU power you have increasing from 4Pro's 4.2TFs to dual 1080Ti's 22 TFs - about 5x - and then consider not even doubling the already weak CPU. Or putting it another way, would Anthem run at 4K60 on dual 1080Tis if they were paired with 8 Jaguar cores?

As for what this has to do about the likelihood of PS4Pro2, I've no idea. It seems a general remark about the need for more GPU than CPU in future machines which in no way is exclusive to a fabled PS4Pro2.

VeteranRegular

Can you please logically correlate your link to your suggestion. I'm in a thread about a potential PS4++. I see a point about 7nm being focussed on GPU. I see mention of dual mega GPU driving a 4K game. Without an explanation from you explaining the connections, I'm left to string that all together myself.

At best guess, you're saying the significant GPU requirements of Anthem at 4K60 shows more need for GPU power than CPU. That ignores the CPU differential between these PCs and consoles. Massively increasing the GPU power without improving the CPU power will create a very lop-sided platform. Think how much more GPU power you have increasing from 4Pro's 4.2TFs to dual 1080Ti's 22 TFs - about 5x - and then consider not even doubling the already weak CPU. Or putting it another way, would Anthem run at 4K60 on dual 1080Tis if they were paired with 8 Jaguar cores?

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if someone wants to give me two dual 1080ti's , ill run my fx-8350 i have lying around at 1.66ghz and find out for you ( yes jaguar and piledriver have approx the same IPC)

Newcomer

shifty... I only say 5 billions transistors for having Ryzen are too much... but I'm honestly not able to tell what are the best GPU/CPU or GPU/BUS transistor ratio... What I may immagine that people on PC may want to have true 4K@60fps (and spend) people on console may want to adapt to 30fps or even (on vanilla ps4) 720p@30fps

VeteranRegular

Shouldnt the FX8350 have an advantage even being clocked at 1.6ghz? It has double the amount L2 cache and 8MB L3 too. Dont know if jaguar has a bigger instruction set?

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It also has a messed up L1i cache, Messed up L1D and L2 , horrible inter module latencies, slow FP operations (because only FMA units) and the list goes on. Jaguar on the other hand has none of this crazy so as a result they pretty much come out at the same IPC, just one can clock twice as high.

shifty... I only say 5 billions transistors for having Ryzen are too much... but I'm honestly not able to tell what are the best GPU/CPU or GPU/BUS transistor ratio... What I may immagine that people on PC may want to have true 4K@60fps (and spend) people on console may want to adapt to 30fps or even (on vanilla ps4) 720p@30fps

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Die space not transistor count as not all transistors are equal, given that a 7nm CCX will be about 20mm sq(4mb cache) i dont see the big deal, thats 40mm sq for 8 cores, a 64CU GPU will be around 225-250 mm sq and then the extra mm for the additional 20mm for I/O.

RegularNewcomer

It also has a messed up L1i cache, Messed up L1D and L2 , horrible inter module latencies, slow FP operations (because only FMA units) and the list goes on. Jaguar on the other hand has none of this crazy so as a result they pretty much come out at the same IPC, just one can clock twice as high.

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Dont know what to think... if the FX processors are that badly designed etc, and the jaguar better designed but still same performance at same clocks, that tells me the jaguar in the consoles are really low-performance cpu's?

VeteranRegular

Dont know what to think... if the FX processors are that badly designed etc, and the jaguar better designed but still same performance at same clocks, that tells me the jaguar in the consoles are really low-performance cpu's?

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There not low, there just not high, they are also very old now. They were a solid small OOOE core, with all the goodness that is brought with that*. But its not a big wide OOOE core with a really big speculation window and lots of execution resources. Their market got contra revenue'd by intel and i guess it was just the closest fitting core AMD had at the time of this console generation.

edit:*by that i mean stable consistent performance, unlike the previous console gen where there are glass jaws everywhere.

Newcomer

No 60 fps games increases the chanches of the arrival of an upgraded PS4-pro IMHO as (upclocked & increased in number) jaguar can still hold and maintain backward & forward compatibility... True that VR needs 60 fps games but is VR selliing so well ?!? Isnt it something like Kinekt that leaded MS to the ONE initial failure ?!?

Strongly parallel calc for getting an alive gaming world... So all the extra jaguar CPU I suppose for PRO2 will be used for making a better looking living world (while vanilla Ps4 and pro will have the same world but still)

ModeratorLegend

Where do the rumours of AMD's Navi work fit in? Are they going to be waiting another 6 years before getting a new GPU architecture out there, or do you consider those rumours false and there's no Navi<>PS5 relationship?

What are your predicted sales for this box and what proportion of devs do you anticipate putting in the work to use those 8 extra CPU cores while still creating a game that can run on Pro?

And will devs stop making games for the 80 millionish PS4's plus all the XB1's and only make games for the XB1X and 4Pro and PRO2 instead?

Newcomer

In 5 years probably pro2 can sell 50 millions beeing chep enough and having a nice game library to play with and finally giving also a sufficient gaming experience (I know the weak point is the lack of 60 fps)... Rumors are rumors and may be there to mislead other cuncurrent ... For instance if MS releases a 12 TF + Ryzen + 24 giga console that will be really expensive and out of market for many many years IMHO. To help sales both PS4 & PRO may be discontinued

Newcomer

If you see Ryzen can be 8 core / 16 threads. So the 15 threads programming can become someting prevalent. 7 threads as basic game experience and 8 more for extra effects... Then Sony can also release PRO2 only games that use all the 15 cores....

Newcomer

Yes more or less... at least a couple of titles just to convince someone to change console (while having still playable all the games of the old PS4 library)....

then my old idea (that is mainly marketing) of telling right at the beginning (2019) people -for the 2024 PS5- that only PRO2 patched games will be forward compatible becouse of the 16 cores or 12 gigs or VRR or whatever... so the remastered market for PS5 will not be killed and if you buy a new game pro2 certified you know you'll play also into PS5

MS project Scarlett will find a competitor in a similar online gaming engine for Sony ?!? Most probably. The point is that the todays PS4s can manage the online gaming engine as no particular HW is needed for that. All that extend PS4 commercial life span and so the odds of a PS4-pro2 to come

Veteran

This sounds so very complicated, good luck to anybody trying to convey that message into the market.
Average console buyer just want to know the price and that they can play the game they want with the security of the console brand quality stamp.

Cores, ram, hdd, mid-gen etc is not something most people think about.

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