2014/1/16 Edgar L. Owen <edgaro...@att.net>
> Stephen,
>
> Once again, that's not the argument in question that proves it, that's a
> different train of thought.
>
> Liz's "repost" has nothing to do with the argument I'm referencing. She
> clearly doesn't know what it is.
>

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I know it... you're a troll... could you please go back in the cave you
came from ?
>
> Edgar
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, January 15, 2014 6:21:35 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote:
>
>> Dear LizR,
>>
>> Thank you for the repost!
>>
>> Dear Edgar,
>>
>>
>> There is a reason why "this simple obvious fact" was not recognized in
>> literature. It has been proven to be nonsense.
>>
>> Your concept is: "the time of the present moment (what I call P-time)
>> which is absolute and common to all observers across the universe."
>>
>> P-time is not common to any pair or combination of observers. It cannot
>> be extended in any unambiguous way to span any pair of observers, so forget
>> about greater groups. Each observer has its very own notion of a Present
>> moment" and it is not shared or sharable. To be sharable, there must exist
>> some way to map the observation that one observe might have to that of
>> another and guess what, when we construct the set of possible maps between
>> observers that connects each and every shred of content, all of the
>> "commonality" of a notion of a present moment vanishes!
>>
>> In fact, in the math of GR there is a serious prohibition on a clock
>> that has a size greater than an infinitesimal point! See General
>> Covariance <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_covariance>. What kind
>> of periodicity do you think such a clock might have? The solution to this
>> obstruction to the notion of clocks in GR is to use something like afiber
>> bundle
>> construction<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiber_bundle_construction_theorem>and
>> associate a system to each and every infinitesimal point of the
>> space-time manifold.
>> This has been done http://arxiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0410061.
>> What was found is that each bundle must be completely disconnected from
>> all others. We cannot create a *single* space of points that will map to
>> the set of infinitesimal points that make up a space-time manifold. To do
>> so would prevent the existence of curvature - commonly known as gravity.
>> A way out is to have an infinite number of totally disconnected spaces,
>> each mapped to a single point of space-time and build your clocks in those
>> spaces. This construction allows for a notion of time that is consistent
>> with both GR and QM but is not consistent with any notion of a *absolute
>> and common P-time for **all observers across the universe*.
>>
>> We do experience gravity, thus the association of a single
>> external computational space to the space-time manifold is not allowed.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 5:59 PM, LizR <liz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 16 January 2014 11:53, Edgar L. Owen <edga...@att.net> wrote:
>>
>> Liz,
>>
>> Do you know what my argument is? Quentin also claimed it was invalid but
>> he couldn't tell us what the argument is that he claims is invalid. Do you
>> know?
>>
>> You argued as follows:
>>
>> The proof is simply the fact that the time traveling twins meet up again
>> with different clock times, but always in the exact same present moment.
>> This proves beyond any doubt there are two kinds of time, clock time which
>> varies by relativistic observer, and the time of the present moment(what I
>> call P-time) which is absolute and common to all observers across
>> the universe.
>>
>> When this is realized there are a number of profound implications.
>>
>> First that time travel outside the common present moment is impossible
>> since all of reality (the entire universe) exists within/is the common
>> present moment. The only time travel that is possible is having
>> different clock times within the same shared present moment.
>>
>> Second, that this is compatible with only one cosmological geometry,
>> named that the universe is a 4-dimensional hypersphere with P-time (not
>> clock time) as its continually extending radial dimension. That is
>> cosmological space is positively curved and finite. In fact we all see all
>> 4-dimensions
>>
>> ...
>
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Batty/Rutger Hauer)
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