AdolfOliverPanties:This is another example of why we are farked.Politicians do not do what constituents want.They do what big money wants, or they do something that will allow them to take in more of our cashlets them tax the general populace without subjecting themselves to their fair share of the tax burden so they can spend it on shiat constituents don't want.

FTFY. Sales taxes are intentionally regressive. A poor person has no choice but to spend most of their income just to get by, so the sales tax applies taxation to most of their income. A rich person spends at best a few percent of their earnings on stuff that is taxed locally. They bank the rest, or use it to buy big-ticket things in such a way that they avoid paying sales taxes. Hence only a fraction of their income is subject to the double taxation burden of sales tax.

Sales tax exists to do precisely one thing: shaft the little guy and let the rich guy (ie. the guy who writes the law, and his buddies) off essentially scot free. Any politician who supports sales tax -- instead of simply raising the income tax on *everybody* by an equal amount to raise the same sum -- is a greedy, unscrupulous asshole who only thinks of himself, and who should be voted out at the first available opportunity.

Unfortunately, if we did that we wouldn't have a system of government, because our government is populated exclusively by greedy, unscrupulous assholes who should never have been given one iota of power in the first place.

Nullav:This doesn't concern me one. Anyone who has ever shopped around for a laptop charger should know where I'm coming from. Taxes won't come close to closing the gap between online and brick/mortar retailers, for all but the heaviest items.

This is very true. I tried to buy one locally because I needed it in a hurry. It turns out I didn't need it that bad. I am against this on principle. We don't need any more taxes. I would be for it if local taxes were lowered. But this is not about fairness. It is about the government taking more of peoples' money.

States lost a total of $23 billion last year because they couldn't collect taxes on out-of-state sales

You didn't lose a Goddamn thing. You can't collect state taxes on out of states sales because it's not being sold in your farking state. It's not yours. That's like me saying I lost $200 million everytime I don't win the lottery.

AdamK:penguinfark: Rindred: So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?

This is also my question.

yep, taxing based on TCP/IP location i guess

how do states determine whether you bought something within their borders?

I think I may be the only person in my home state (Michigan) who actually complies with the use tax. Every year, I go through all my online receipts and actually hand tally what I owe in "Use" tax. I used to just use their formula for an estimated use tax based on gross income, but I found it overestimated my tax burden by a couple hundred every year, so now I actually go through the hassle of figuring it out by hand (which is considerable). I figured I didn't want to jeopardize my license by getting nabbed (no matter how remote the chance) on some minor little tax issue.

I would still shop online for 80% of my non-grocery goods - it's just easier and still significantly cheaper.

gweilo8888:FTFY. Sales taxes are intentionally regressive. A poor person has no choice but to spend most of their income just to get by, so the sales tax applies taxation to most of their income. A rich person spends at best a few percent of their earnings on stuff that is taxed locally. They bank the rest, or use it to buy big-ticket things in such a way that they avoid paying sales taxes. Hence only a fraction of their income is subject to the double taxation burden of sales tax.

Sales tax exists to do precisely one thing: shaft the little guy and let the rich guy (ie. the guy who writes the law, and his buddies) off essentially scot free. Any politician who supports sales tax -- instead of simply raising the income tax on *everybody* by an equal amount to raise the same sum -- is a greedy, unscrupulous asshole who only thinks of himself, and who should be voted out at the first available opportunity.

Unfortunately, if we did that we wouldn't have a system of government, because our government is populated exclusively by greedy, unscrupulous assholes who should never have been given one iota of power in the first place.

This is why we need to vote libertarian! Garry Johnson's consumption based tax will solve everything, because rich people consume more. *pftch- BHWWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA* I'm sorry I can't keep a straight face though that. I've tried to explain this to so many libertarians and they just don't farking get it.

For you Canadians purchasing here, just throw out the box and/or make it look used.

CSB. A friend mine from Ontario visits once a year. 3 years ago while visiting here he bought a 3 wood from Dick's Sporting Goods. We go out golfing and he hands it to me. "Nick that bad boy up Jay. I don't want this shiat to look new when I get back to the border cause I'll be damned if I'm gonna pay the toll on it."

ArgusRun:feckingmorons: You already have to pay tax on the items you buy from out of state vendors that do not collect sales tax if those items would be taxable in your state. Use tax, not sales tax is what it is called. I file my return and pay the tax quarterly as required by my state of residence, Florida.

If you live in Deleware, Montana or Oregon you have no state sales or use tax. All others should be paying their use tax as the law requires unless the vendor collects it.

This will not raise your tax burden one cent. It will however create an accounting nightmare for the sellers and many smaller sellers will simply close. Those that remain open will have higher tax compliance costs and will pass those costs along to the consumer.

If you people had paid your taxes all along like you're supposed to you wouldn't be facing this problem. Quill v. North Dakota was not litigated to save you from paying the tax you rightfully owe, it was litigated so Quill and retailers similarly situated wouldn't be required to comply with tax laws in jurisdictions in which they have no nexus.

TLDR version - you already owe these taxes, you don't pay them. Now they want businesses to collect them because you won't pay voluntarily and prices will go up. Pay your taxes deadbeats.

Bullcrap. Software and apps exist now to do the calculations and filing for you. Way esier for the seller to do this than for individual purchasers.

All this does is help to ever so slightly level the playing field between brick and mortar retailers and online only stores. those cheap prices come at the expense of retail jobs, property taxes and commerical rents.

And the warehouse jobs are notoriously bad even when compared to other warehouse jobs.

AND the law is setting a $1 million a year revenue limit for collection. If you are a small business you don't have to collect sales tax. Trust me companies that sell web cart software will be offering sales tax calculation addins very soon.

I can literally stand in the doorway of the Pheasant Lane Mall in Tax-free Nashua, NH...whip out my weiner and piss literally into 6.25% sales tax Tyngsboro, MA...while I say Fark You to Massachusetts tax collectors...so there!!

ArkAngel:Thoguh: I don't have a problem with this. It'll cut down on really blatant tax evasion, that's it. And smaller companies won't have to "deal with 9,000 tax codes" or anything like that. Some vendor will see a business opportunity to run all that stuff for a small surcharge and all the small businesses will just contract through them.

Smaller companies won't have to deal with it at all. It excuses all companies with less than one million in online sales.

So once again, punish success, and do everything to make businesses less efficient. Brilliant.

BarkingUnicorn:AdamK: penguinfark: Rindred: So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?

This is also my question.

yep, taxing based on TCP/IP location i guess

how do states determine whether you bought something within their borders?

could i theoretically have everything shipped to a post office in a neighboring state just to pay a lower sales tax?

personally i live in a state that already has an internet sales tax, it hasn't killed off internet purchasing in any way, even if the prices were higher - there's just a great deal of stuff that's not available at brick and mortar stores, so this bill doesn't affect me much - was just curious

AdamK:BarkingUnicorn: AdamK: penguinfark: Rindred: So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?

This is also my question.

yep, taxing based on TCP/IP location i guess

how do states determine whether you bought something within their borders?

could i theoretically have everything shipped to a post office in a neighboring state just to pay a lower sales tax?

personally i live in a state that already has an internet sales tax, it hasn't killed off internet purchasing in any way, even if the prices were higher - there's just a great deal of stuff that's not available at brick and mortar stores, so this bill doesn't affect me much - was just curious

Yes, you could. But check your State's use tax law before you go to that trouble. It may say you owe your State the difference between its use tax (which is usually the same as the sales tax) and the lower sales tax that you paid in the other State. IDK if crossing State lines to pick up your stuff makes evasion of State taxes a federal crime.

AdamK:penguinfark: Rindred: So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?

This is also my question.

yep, taxing based on TCP/IP location i guess

how do states determine whether you bought something within their borders?

what if i buy something from another country?

It's based on shipping address. Online retailers already collect sales tax if they have a physical presence in a state anyway (why I pay sales tax on Amazon purchases here in KY); now they just do it for all states with a sales tax. Previously, the purchaser was supposed to file this. This will cost a little bit to implement on the retailer side, but it's pretty simple software.

There is the issue of sales taxes being regressive, but that's separate from collection.

I don't get why people are upset about paying sales taxes on the internet. We have to pay a sales tax when we buy something in a "brick and mortar" store, how is paying a sales tax when buying something on the internet any different?

On a related note, I'd like to see a law requiring that prices must be displayed with the tax included.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf:I don't get why people are upset about paying sales taxes on the internet. We have to pay a sales tax when we buy something in a "brick and mortar" store, how is paying a sales tax when buying something on the internet any different?

On a related note, I'd like to see a law requiring that prices must be displayed with the tax included.

I always see the total cost including sales tax before I decided to buy something. If you want Amazon to calculate sales tax on every item you merely look at, you're being unreasonable. Try asking for that at Walmart.

People are upset about losing the petty but thrilling pleasure of sticking it to The Man by evading sales and use taxes.

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf:I don't get why people are upset about paying sales taxes on the internet. We have to pay a sales tax when we buy something in a "brick and mortar" store, how is paying a sales tax when buying something on the internet any different?

On a related note, I'd like to see a law requiring that prices must be displayed with the tax included.

Why don't you check out the tax rates of places that do that and get back to us? Here is a hint, they tend to go from 10% to 12.5% to 15% to 17% to 19% to 21% and attempt 22%. Having the tax put after the price keeps the politicians from running the rate up whenever they feel like it as it causes immediate outrage.

Rindred:So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?

The simple answer is that you live in your state. It's a sales and use tax. It's where the item will be used. That's the basis for what the sales tax rate is. You didn't use the sandwich in your home state, so you don't pay your home state's sales tax on it. You paid the sales tax on where you ate the sandwich at.

Three Crooked Squirrels:AdolfOliverPanties: This is another example of why we are farked.Politicians do not do what constituents want.They do what big money wants, or they do something that will allow them to take in more of our cash so they can spend it on shiat constituents don't want.

I haven't studied the issue thoroughly here, but neither of those two things seem to apply. Big money would rather transactions be tax free so the price is lower and they, in theory, sell more. And the politicians that passed this (at the national level) will never see any of this money, so they don't get to spend it.

Their constituents might not like it, but it doesn't seem like they had big money or their own spending proclivities in mind either.

Big businesses decided a long time ago that customers would pay sales tax, instead of the people who make the titular sales.

Big businesses decided a long time ago that customers would pay sales tax, instead of the people who make the titular sales.

That is in the USA. In other places, import and duties are common today. 20 years ago a tool sold by an importer in Australia had a 22% tax at that point of sale. Throw in the wholesale and retail margins and the results were tools cost a fortune. Now there is a 10% tax on each level of sales with credits. The system still takes in a higher percentage than the US system but it is much better than the old system. Europe switched to the same type of system with their VAT as well. Both areas now tax services as well as goods so if you fortune teller, they have to add tax to their performance just like the guy selling shoes.

DON.MAC:Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: I don't get why people are upset about paying sales taxes on the internet. We have to pay a sales tax when we buy something in a "brick and mortar" store, how is paying a sales tax when buying something on the internet any different?

On a related note, I'd like to see a law requiring that prices must be displayed with the tax included.

Why don't you check out the tax rates of places that do that and get back to us? Here is a hint, they tend to go from 10% to 12.5% to 15% to 17% to 19% to 21% and attempt 22%. Having the tax put after the price keeps the politicians from running the rate up whenever they feel like it as it causes immediate outrage.

There should be a law to seperately list the gasoline and tobacco tax.

Rindred:So, if I buy something online. The vendor/store isn't in my state. The company that I have my credit card with doesn't reside in my state. The company that processes the credit card to pay the vendor doesn't reside in my state. Question: what entitles my state to even one penny of that transaction? If I cross a state border and buy a sandwich, I don't pay my home state sales tax on it. This isn't the same thing how?

Help us Obi Wan JohnBoehnor, you're our only hope. The very thought makes me want to puke

tkwasny:I thought it was a constitutional requirement that all bills that have anything to do with taxes and expenditures are required to initiate in the House?

It doesn't generate revenue nor is it a new tax. This is the senate putting the job of enforcing an existing law (use tax) on the retailer rather than on the people via self-reporting. Despite all the high and mightiness in this thread self reporting what you owe to the gov't will always be massively abused.

Oldiron_79:Wait there are people that seriously thought the govt would vote against giving itself moar money? Let me laugh even harder.

This.. so very this.

MythDragon:That's like me saying I lost $200 million every time I don't win the lottery.

My company pulled that line and did it with a straight face (so to speak). They told us our 20,000,000.00 profit this quarter was really a loss because the shareholders/management wanted to make 30mil. So there will be no bonuses.

I completely understand that it is "fair" for me to pay local sales tax on items I buy online, but this will not save retailers.

I typically buy my supplements from drugstore.com rather than GNC.com because they don't charge sales tax and shipping like GNC.com does. Some products are only available on the GNC website for higher prices, so I will occasionally go that route.

Making me pay the sales tax at drugstore.com will not get me into a local GNC store because of convenience and avoiding douchey sales clerks. It will instead cause me to stop buying from the chain althogether.

DeathCipris:This would be a tax nightmare. All the states are slightly different in taxation, have different tax rates, not to mention localities have differences too. This ridiculous on the face of it.

1. repeal all current sales and income taxes2. impose a tax on all currency leaving the country (napkin math says ~10-15%)3. impose an annual tax on all assets of value, including IP (napkin math again says ~3.4% to match current state and federal revenues).

I'm in the "get rid of sales tax" corner, but how are you going to enforce #3 exactly?

IronTom:DeathCipris: This would be a tax nightmare. All the states are slightly different in taxation, have different tax rates, not to mention localities have differences too. This ridiculous on the face of it.

You don't hire 10's of thousands of IRS agents and not use them!

I know you are being tongue-in-cheek, but the onus isn't on the IRS. It is the businesses that must bear the burden of some new goofy tax scheme and being in compliance with different localities. In the end, it will be the consumer that gets screwed.