Basically, pay small subscription and have access to a massive back catalog of games. The Playstation Plus is kinda like that, where you pay $30-50 a year and get games each month ontop of that service, accept you have to download the whole game.

The failure of OnLive was that they tried to sell you a game on a per-title basis. The whole point of a cloud based streaming system is that you don't need to install or download the whole game.

If Sony could offer thousands of PS1, PS2, PS3, Vita, and even PS4 games for a cheap Netflix like subscription, this would be a killer app.

This was exactly the way that MSFT was heading (and hopefully still is) before the "small amount of internet crybabies" in conjunction with bad messaging forced them to largely change most of their online plans.

Not exactly. They were moving to a steam for consoles model before people complained and got it changed.Personally I would have vastly preferred that system, as I have no need of discs, but they weren't going for a full on streaming model.

As we all know the Family Share plan, which was awesome, was nixed, hopefully not permanently.

Thats not what that article says at all man. He talked a bit about digital purchases, which is not streaming. Then he said streaming could be cool but not right now, then Penello said that the Azure services could do something like that. Having the ability to down the line institute infrastructure that you outright state you don't think is feasible at the current time isn't "we're working on it!".. its not even close, its a theoretical.

Basically, pay small subscription and have access to a massive back catalog of games. The Playstation Plus is kinda like that, where you pay $30-50 a year and get games each month ontop of that service, accept you have to download the whole game.

The failure of OnLive was that they tried to sell you a game on a per-title basis. The whole point of a cloud based streaming system is that you don't need to install or download the whole game.

If Sony could offer thousands of PS1, PS2, PS3, Vita, and even PS4 games for a cheap Netflix like subscription, this would be a killer app.

This was exactly the way that MSFT was heading (and hopefully still is) before the "small amount of internet crybabies" in conjunction with bad messaging forced them to largely change most of their online plans.

Not exactly. They were moving to a steam for consoles model before people complained and got it changed.Personally I would have vastly preferred that system, as I have no need of discs, but they weren't going for a full on streaming model.

As we all know the Family Share plan, which was awesome, was nixed, hopefully not permanently.

Your link says nothing about xbox planning on a subscription based model. It talks about the Move toward digital distribution and streaming, but to interpret that as a plan for a Gamefly-Like digital service is a stretch.

If use of Gaikai doesn't include the possibility of me inserting my disc where the PS4 can recognize it as a valid PS1/2/3 game and let me stream it, then the entire service is a waste, IMHO. Hell, I still don't know why it's not feasible to emulate the PS1/2 now that the console is PC x86 based.

There are a few home brew emulators available out in the wild that work admirably, considering that the authors do not know the intimate details of the hardware they are emulating. I find it very hard to believe that a team of Sony engineers, with complete access to that information, would be incapable of doing it on the PS4.

People always say, "if you want to play old games, play them on your old console"... But as it has been already been mentioned above, TV's simply do not have enough inputs. This was the value that I held (and STILL hold) dear with my first generation PS3 (60GB, upgraded to a 500GB then 1TB since), despite the price. And thanks to the PS Memory Card adapter that was available once upon a time, 6 cards worth of priceless PS/PS2 data is still archived on my PS3.

Not being able to play games I already own would totally KILL my need for such a service in the first place. If Sony wants to invest in this just to sell me games I ALREADY own, then I ALREADY know that I won't be using it.

I'm very much looking forward to this - I'd love to buy a PS4 and have access to my purchased PS3 games (insert disc, verify and authenticate, start playing game on Gaikai).

As far as the business model, I think Sony would be smart to use a subscription model - $59/yr to allow you to stream games you've previously purchased (e.g. have the physical disc for and insert it into the PS4). If you want to purchase access to additional games, they can charge you $20 or something like that per game (digital only, no disc needed).

I don't think it should be free (those servers and electricity aren't free), or charged on a per-game basis (like the Wii's Virtual Console), but a subscription to keep up revenue as well as not penalizing the enthusiast users with vast libraries.

This article is really interesting in conjunction with the other Ars article about how the US can't get gigabit connections because the lack of ISP competition means they can't be bothered to improve service.

The current infrastructure is good enough for Gaikai. I was using Onlive as my main gaming platform for nearly a year, and although there is a slight input delay, both services worked very well for me on a 15mbit internet connection.

Basically, pay small subscription and have access to a massive back catalog of games. The Playstation Plus is kinda like that, where you pay $30-50 a year and get games each month ontop of that service, accept you have to download the whole game.

The failure of OnLive was that they tried to sell you a game on a per-title basis.

OnLive also have Playpack, a $10 monthly eat-all-you-want service with 200 something games offered. The failure of OnLive (and any streaming game service) is the fact that the infrastructure to provide low enough latency still isn't there for most people.

If use of Gaikai doesn't include the possibility of me inserting my disc where the PS4 can recognize it as a valid PS1/2/3 game and let me stream it, then the entire service is a waste, IMHO. Hell, I still don't know why it's not feasible to emulate the PS1/2 now that the console is PC x86 based.

There are a few home brew emulators available out in the wild that work admirably, considering that the authors do not know the intimate details of the hardware they are emulating. I find it very hard to believe that a team of Sony engineers, with complete access to that information, would be incapable of doing it on the PS4.

Oh, it's entirely feasible. It's how the PS3 plays digital PS1/2 games. They're just not doing it. And that sucks. Even if Gaikai turns out to be workable, I still think offering the games on a per-title basis to play across all three Playstation devices would a good thing. Basically - just extend the current offerings on the PS3 and Vita to the PS4, while also offering a new all-you-can-eat model via streaming.

Kyle Orland wroteGaikai launched in 2008 as a platform to deliver Web-based streaming demos of high-end PC games that ran on many retailer websites. Sony spent $380 million to scoop up the company last year and has thus far used the underlying technology to power the surprisingly usable Remote Play functionality between the PlayStation 4 and the PlayStation Vita (as well as PS Vita TV streaming in Japan).

That's quite a speculative assertion don't you think? Remote Play has been available predating Gaikai's existence.

It was redone this generation to use Gaikai.

LOL, and you know this how...? Do you work on the PS4 firmware team?

Strange thing about this post -- this person's forum profile says he/she works on Playstation platforms. So, what's up with that?

Kyle Orland wroteGaikai launched in 2008 as a platform to deliver Web-based streaming demos of high-end PC games that ran on many retailer websites. Sony spent $380 million to scoop up the company last year and has thus far used the underlying technology to power the surprisingly usable Remote Play functionality between the PlayStation 4 and the PlayStation Vita (as well as PS Vita TV streaming in Japan).

That's quite a speculative assertion don't you think? Remote Play has been available predating Gaikai's existence.

It was redone this generation to use Gaikai.

LOL, and you know this how...? Do you work on the PS4 firmware team?

Strange thing about this post -- this person's forum profile says he/she works on Playstation platforms. So, what's up with that?

So disappointed. No chance of it arriving before 2015 (I'm not in the US), which makes me wonder why anybody would even bother. I can't see there being any PS3 exclusives coming out in that time that I need and there should be enough PS4 releases by then that PS3s all ove rthe country will be getting mothballed.

Perhaps this is a good feature for people who aren't early-adopters, eg: people switching over in a year or so?

Otherwise I just don't see the value in this as a way to get backwards compatibility. There are of course other ways it could be useful though.

Kyle Orland wroteGaikai launched in 2008 as a platform to deliver Web-based streaming demos of high-end PC games that ran on many retailer websites. Sony spent $380 million to scoop up the company last year and has thus far used the underlying technology to power the surprisingly usable Remote Play functionality between the PlayStation 4 and the PlayStation Vita (as well as PS Vita TV streaming in Japan).

That's quite a speculative assertion don't you think? Remote Play has been available predating Gaikai's existence.

It was redone this generation to use Gaikai.

LOL, and you know this how...? Do you work on the PS4 firmware team?

Strange thing about this post -- this person's forum profile says he/she works on Playstation platforms. So, what's up with that?

Does the PS3 explode into flames if it enters the same house as a PS4?

To stream PS3 games you will need to own them digitally, which means if you purchased a disc it will not work, you will need to repurchase.

I guess I'm a weirdo who keeps all of my old consoles if I want to play old games on them? Yes, some sort of conversion program would be nice (mail in discs to get a downloadable copy/gaikai version, or put in the disc and you can buy the digital verison for a few bucks), but I hooked up my Snes the other day to replay LttP, so keeping the discs and consoles of my favorite games seems like a no-brainer, rather than re-buying all my games on the new shiny.

In Japan there was a service for this for your PSP games.

There was/is a service for this, but you don't get your games for free. What happened is, you download a program to your PSP and chuck the UMD in, it scans your UMD and then gives you a discount on the same game in the store. This was pretty much the only way to play those UMDs you bought on a PSVita. On the plus side, if it was a multiplayer game, you now have two copies and can play with yourself! Um, I mean... with a friend or family member.

This article is really interesting in conjunction with the other Ars article about how the US can't get gigabit connections because the lack of ISP competition means they can't be bothered to improve service.

The current infrastructure is good enough for Gaikai. I was using Onlive as my main gaming platform for nearly a year, and although there is a slight input delay, both services worked very well for me on a 15mbit internet connection.

I had the opposite experience with OnLive, despite being on a 25/25 FiOS connection at the time. The input delay was too much for me to deal with for most of the games that I tried.

So disappointed. No chance of it arriving before 2015 (I'm not in the US), which makes me wonder why anybody would even bother. I can't see there being any PS3 exclusives coming out in that time that I need and there should be enough PS4 releases by then that PS3s all ove rthe country will be getting mothballed.

Perhaps this is a good feature for people who aren't early-adopters, eg: people switching over in a year or so?

Otherwise I just don't see the value in this as a way to get backwards compatibility. There are of course other ways it could be useful though.

Agreed. As someone said earlier, people have been reading far too much into the BC part of this. Sony has just said it's one way to do it. They've never (to my knowledge) come out and said that they are working on Gaikai primarily as a way to deliver PS1/2/3 games. Everyone's just assuming that. Part of it is because people are miffed that none of their old games (even the OLD old ones) are available on PS4 right now.

Better uses include instant demos, MMOs, fun but light games that engage crowds like trivia or game show stuff, and (my personal hope) finally a viable way to deliver a huge buffet of really old classic arcade and console games.

This article is really interesting in conjunction with the other Ars article about how the US can't get gigabit connections because the lack of ISP competition means they can't be bothered to improve service.

The current infrastructure is good enough for Gaikai. I was using Onlive as my main gaming platform for nearly a year, and although there is a slight input delay, both services worked very well for me on a 15mbit internet connection.

Depends on the type of game. Point-and-click adventures without QTEs? Absolutely. But some folks get fixated on competitive multiplayer FPS play, and...

So I want to get this straight. All the people that are arguing with Flit about keeping his old system, and are mad that they have to re-purchase their games again on Gaikai, don't want this service (or want this service to fail)? I am confused about the logic here. If you want to play your games on Gaikai you probably will have to re-purchase them. (Or pray there is a trade-in system) It's the nature of the beast. I for one, hope this service works, because it will allow me to catch up on all the games I didn't get to purchase, or missed on the last generation. There is no problem, if it does not have a solution. It is then just the way it is. It sucks you may have to keep your old system, but for them to invent a new technology, put up all this upfront engineering cost, develop the infrastructure, and create a service such as this, then expect them to just allow you to use it for free on a game you purchased from a developer that is not building this service, is a selfish entitled consumer ideology.

So I want to get this straight. All the people that are arguing with Flit about keeping his old system, and are mad that they have to re-purchase their games again on Gaikai, don't want this service (or want this service to fail)? I am confused about the logic here.

Not correct. No one said they wanted the service to fail, people are just upset to see that all their old disc games will not work and they will have to repurchase.

Quote:

If you want to play your games on Gaikai you probably will have to re-purchase them. (Or pray there is a trade-in system) It's the nature of the beast. I for one, hope this service works, because it will allow me to catch up on all the games I didn't get to purchase, or missed on the last generation. There is no problem, if it does not have a solution. It is then just the way it is. It sucks you may have to keep your old system, but for them to invent a new technology, put up all this upfront engineering cost, develop the infrastructure, and create a service such as this, then expect them to just allow you to use it for free on a game you purchased from a developer that is not building this service, is a selfish entitled consumer ideology.

This is the way most people feel. Not sure why you think you are the only one feeling this way. The difference is Flit was taking the side of trying to make himself superior to people who were disappointed because he keeps all his old gaming systems (as if that was something out of the ordinary) and refused to understand that some people might be upset (while understand the reasoning) that to consolidate or use the streaming feature they would be forced to re-purchase.

They can't, but it's less an issue for certain types of games. I don't see gaikai being used for playing FPS/fighting games. Most people will continue to play the new ones. But for games like FF and other JRPGs, and probably tons of games that aren't super-sensitive to latency, it could work.

MS is basically right though. Cloud is interesting, but there are huge problems in streaming games that don't have easy solutions. Latency and bandwidth are the largest of these. All this talk about this being the last console generation are BS. Things are not going to change so much in the next 7-10 years that either of these things are good enough.

CPUs and smartphones are getting faster very quickly, but people's connections to the internet are not. And even where 100mbit+ connections are available, they're horrendously expensive and have really low usages caps. Gigabit is even more rare. The customer-facing network infrastructure is what will make these sorts of services of limited use.

Microsoft, which was once rumored to be eyeing OnLive for purchase, recently said that the idea of streaming games is currently "problematic" because of the state of consumer broadband speeds.

I remember just a few short months ago when this gem was uttered:

Quote:

Don Mattrick, President of Microsoft’s Interactive Entertainment division, said: “Fortunately we have a product for people who aren’t able to get some form of connectivity, it’s called Xbox 360. If you have zero access to internet, that is an offline device.”

Not exactly. They were moving to a steam for consoles model before people complained and got it changed.Personally I would have vastly preferred that system, as I have no need of discs, but they weren't going for a full on streaming model.

I was pretty indifferent to the whole thing when I got my xbox one, and then after going store to store to find two specific games, I was both surprised and overjoyed that I could simply buy them online and download them. As a bonus, I don't have to put the disc in for those.

But I digress, depending on what this turns out to be (will it be online streaming of games) then you'll have a similar argument of 'online only'. However, given previous articles on the matter, latency seems to be killer for such things and will have to be seen to be believed.

Honestly, the "latency" argument doesn't really concern me for streaming old games. These are console games, the likelihood of the servers for FPS or similar twitch-dependent multiplayer games still being up and running, with people playing on them, isn't very high. Switching to an all-streaming future will require a fix to latency, but for right now, it's a really cool way to be able to pick up games you missed. I own a PS3, and I really want to play the Last of Us. I also fully intend to pick up a PS4. I can, in theory, wait until GaiKai is real to play it.

The fears of a losing multiplayer games because of latency seems low, since most of those games won't have anyone playing them online, if the servers are even still running.

I for one, hope this service works, because it will allow me to catch up on all the games I didn't get to purchase, or missed on the last generation.

If it works, and the "Vita TV" can be a client for it (and it's affordable), then Sony will once again have me as a customer for the first time since the days of the PS2. (I skipped the PS3 entirely, because there was no time at which I could get a unit with both backwards compatibility and a price I could tolerate.)

This article is really interesting in conjunction with the other Ars article about how the US can't get gigabit connections because the lack of ISP competition means they can't be bothered to improve service.

The current infrastructure is good enough for Gaikai. I was using Onlive as my main gaming platform for nearly a year, and although there is a slight input delay, both services worked very well for me on a 15mbit internet connection.

What about the ridiculously low bandwidth caps and nickel-and-diming customers for usage? Streaming the game from a remote server would mean a constant video stream in addition to input data, and that would bust your monthly cap in short order.

The difference is Flit was taking the side of trying to make himself superior to people who were disappointed because he keeps all his old gaming systems (as if that was something out of the ordinary) and refused to understand that some people might be upset (while understand the reasoning) that to consolidate or use the streaming feature they would be forced to re-purchase.

Superior? No. Shusien got it right. I don't understand why people feel entitled that because they purchased a game on one system years ago, they suddenly should get access to every time that game gets released on a new platform. You either get to have your old game, with all the downsides and upsides of having that old system around taking up space for free, or you get to re-purchase your game to have the benefit of consolidation of your media for a fee. Would it be awesome if sony allowed some upgrade path for that old media? Of course. But to complain that your old physical hardware will not be automatically converted to any platform for all time and eternity for free is straight-up whining. (PC users are lucky that people will donate time to projects like SCUMMvm to maintain the playability of old games, but even then you're very often subject to how popular a game was, minor hits won't have a lot of mod/patch support to keep games running).

I was only saying how lucky people like me who didn't purchase the games for Playstation the first time get a service like Gaikai that will allow us to play those games is a killer feature.