I think at this point anyone who is reading these threads is probably a long term vet and has played for a really long time in general. We all love this game.

Do you really enjoy playing 4v4 with the structure that it has right now? Every single prac, over and over, is the same thing. Target the weakest link from the go, if anyone dies once early switch target to get them out. Why are we all stuck on the idea of penalizing an already losing team? It doesn't make sense to me at all, I know currently in a prac I would do the exact same thing but that is because it's the easiest way to win period.

We have tried A LOT of things in the past as far as this same problem. The first to 12 being the most recent, which in theory fixes the problem of someone just being targeted to win, but we also have a decent amount of players that would just burn items and die for more. That being said I still think the first to 12 is a far better method than the one we are currently using. People will always play like dumb asses, not use their items, or drive directly into 4 bombs. It seems very easy to avoid but it just happens.

What I think we should do:
Lift the kill cap in general, the teams still remain 4v4, the first 3 kills spawn full lives like normal, afterwards no items for every life after, subs or otherwise. The slot itself is burned.

It's scary, and crazy, I know. If we don't make changes at all, no new player will ever be able to join in. We have a few who are trying to currently and honestly they're just perma targets when they play. KLF and Mean Gene. I also understand we aren't ever going to get a huge influx of new players in general because this game is old.

This post is not meant to in any fashion spark a chain of stupid ass rants about how horrible the league is or the people who are or anything negative to the zone at all. Just tossing it out there.

Very good points, Vars. I agree with most of them although I'm not sure we have the development assets present to make the changes you suggested to the bots. I could be wrong on that, but I'll try to found out. To me, at this point, anything is worth a try even if it's been tried before and failed.

On a broader spectrum there is the problem we have of accommodating real newbies to our zone. Many times people assume a new player is just some regular playing under an alias to manipulate eRat or otherwise. There are a few top players, Ozn and Rage spring to mind, who have taken on the responsibility of trying to help real newbies. Unfortunately they are the exception rather than the rule. In my view, a combination of removing or severely restricting aliases and fomenting more help from vets for new players is the best solution. That said, we can control the former variable but not the latter.

I think it's worth evaluating what kind of enhancements or changes we can make to 4v4 without the need to modify the bots. It seems anything, even small bot changes are not gonna happen and those who have offered to help aren't permitted access to the bots. A matchmaking bot that matches teams based on erating is one thing we proposed for practices but im not sure that's gonna happen. I think it's been 4 months since the plan for that was put together.

However, I do like the idea of eliminating items. Just get rid of them completely. (I'm not sure if that can just be done on a zone-level or not) It won't save the JackMoves of the world but it will definitely change the dynamic of the game.

And on a side note, my altruism related to guys like KLF is changing a bit. Changing to the extent where if you're gonna target these new and/or learning players...im just gonna do the same to you. If you can't put your fragile skillset aside for one second and leave them to learn the mechanics of 4v4 you deserve the same fate. Just ask seven year itch.

I've yet to be in a prac where my team would bother firing at KLF or Mean Gene, or even actively attempt to not shoot at them. They're also not at 300 energy at all times like some secedes and poopies of the world, so they don't constantly die from collateral damage either. Rage has never done anything for a newbie ever. Any newbies he ever helped were his hockey zone friends. He couldn't bring maimer back, despite all the talk. Probably cause Maimer apparently has a family. According to rage's own words, he told pseudo NOT to come back, as this game is so horrible (after losing to The Dark, while Rage is dellusional and decided damage done was the true victory in the game).

As for the ready 12 idea, if your pracs are about targetting KLF now, they will surely be about targetting him 12 times, 9 of which he'll have no toys. AFAIK !ready X is always available if the captains agree to it, but luckily very rarely used as it rewards F3 weasels.

Plus you're missing one side of people dying out that is comebacks. A game at 6-2 score to a 6-3 4v3 is easily winnable for the team with 4. A game at 6-2 where some people on the team trying to come back will have no toys vs. people with toys seems like it'd be interesting for about a full minute.