And Black ties up the White rook to the d-pawn while retaining pawn mobility. And if the White king comes any close to the c-pawn, he runs the risk of being cut-off from the center pawn and the Black king stops them with the black rook.

It is my firm opinion that White is better here, an opinion based on my personal experience and intuition, and what little analysis I have done. Because after all we have barely scratched the surface here.

If you disagree with that then fair enough, you are entitled to your own opinion. I accept that you feel strongly for Black's cause, and I can respect that.

The beauty is he has so many promising lines to choose from. In fact the more we look the more I think it may be even more than just a slight edge, but in any case White should be happy with a slight edge that is safe as the result of any opening.

You say that as to infer we should be naive to believe White has not been using a comp to play the white side in this discussion.

What I have shown is the ideas. Once you play the ideas out, like you would even from an opening book, you start remembering the ideas too.

White has been using a comp too, AND, it has been clear that White has had to defend many times, and yes, playing with a comp as white is "easy", just to make sure he does not get horribly tied down, and yet, in some lines, even with the help of a comp, he does get tied down, I have shown that already.

There has been nothing nowhere, not in all the lines I have challenged, where White ends up better, a computer evaluations is not precise, but I have shown that too. In face I have seen that a lot while going over these lines.

I will check if I have not covered the fxe5 line already.

But so far all the doors keep closing on white, and you are running out of options. But you keep believing white is better. If White was truly better, the doors should be closing on Black at that rate, but not the other way around.

The beauty is he has so many promising lines to choose from. In fact the more we look the more I think it may be even more than just a slight edge, but in any case White should be happy with a slight edge that is safe as the result of any opening.

After 33...Bc6 the idea was 34.Rh1!? to sacrifice the exchange for two connected passers if Black plays ...d4. That looked dangerous to me at first sight.33...Bc6 34.Rh1 d4 35.cxd4 Bxh1 36.Rxh1 Rd8 37.Kc3

If Black doesn't take the exchange White will just be better, so that looks critical.

Needs to be checked if this is working but certainly looks excellent practical chances. Otherwise I'll check the fxe5 line. The great thing for White is he has so much choice of lines which all lead to a slight edge.

I ran that end game. I just did not provide the whole line of it. White runs into a wall there too because the black rooks will infiltrate on the h file and on the c file. The black king will also just blockade the pawn break.

After 33...Bc6 the idea was 34.Rh1!? to sacrifice the exchange for two connected passers if Black plays ...d4. That looked dangerous to me at first sight.33...Bc6 34.Rh1 d4 35.cxd4 Bxh1 36.Rxh1 Rd8 37.Kc3

If Black doesn't take the exchange White will just be better, so that looks critical.

Needs to be checked if this is working but certainly looks excellent practical chances. Otherwise I'll check the fxe5 line. The great thing for White is he has so much choice of lines which all lead to a slight edge.

Are you saying white keeps an edge after the recapture with the d-pawn now ?

Can you show it ?

The only one providing lines here is me. You are mostly providing words.

What are you intending ?

if White takes with the d-pawn then

33... Bc6

and now white has to deal with Black's d-pawn break or an advance on the queenside by Black, or Black invading on the h-file if White does not challenge Black down the h-file. White's bishop is even more limited in movement and does not seem able to do much now.

Handshake.

I think I am done here. It was a great discussion, Keano.

Looking back through all the posts, I noticed no one brought up the line

5... c6 6. Nge2 Nf6

Which is another great line in the 5... c6 variation. Anyone has any thoughts on that ?

[White is tied down by Black, who's pawn is perhaps more dangerous than White's.]

This was never a correspondence game. Your opponent will never send you 10-18 moves and will not send 2-3 different variations just in case you go here or there. He won't even show you where you should go. This is a discussion.

You can let me know what you intend, but as I said this is in danger of turning into a correspondence game. All that really interests me is if White is better or not, which is clear enough to me, if Black can hold an endgame in 40 or 45 moves with correct play should not really be surprising, but it will be another thing to replicate this over the board.

Black is not just holding. White also has to play accurately, not just to try to be on top, Black's position is dynamic, and he can put white on the ropes quickly.

I will look. I have covered that line, but not with Bc2. I will post shortly.

Also, we both know engines are used here, and in OTB, Black's position is like a spring which can, at any point, pop and the effect can be hard for White. In OTB you will not have an engine like you do now, that is the case for both sides. As is the case when engines are used, in a perfect game, black can hope to draw. I am sure Black will not be playing vs a perfect game in OTB. Keep that in mind.

I have shown and shut down the door on just anything you have thrown. You are running out of more options as time goes on. I can see the horizon effect already.