Matt Schaub only has 10 GWD. Sanchez, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Rex Grossman -- all those guys have more game winning drives than Schaub. Even David Carr has 11 GWD.

But to me, that's not a great indicator of whether a QB is a good/great QB... although it does end up separating the men from the boys. I wouldn't want Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, or Matt Hasselbeck over Schaub.

OK I have held off for 5 pages and will give my 2 cents - it is almost a useless question. It is undefinable. It is subject to way to many variables - it could be your TE hit in between the numbers in the endzone in the SB, it could be a misthrown ball which the WR miraculously catches on the side of his helmet in the SB, it could be your safety making exactly the play he is taught on a hail mary and it falls into someone's hands, it could be your D giving up an 80+ yard drive in under 50 seconds, etc. None of that reflects on the QB.

I know one thing. I watched Schaub orchestrate 5 straight scoring drives with one being 99 yards and the next 94 yards against one of the toughest defenses of the last decade. That kind of prolonged effort is clutch enough for me.

Matt Schaub only has 10 GWD. Sanchez, Alex Smith, Joe Flacco, Rex Grossman -- all those guys have more game winning drives than Schaub. Even David Carr has 11 GWD.

But to me, that's not a great indicator of whether a QB is a good/great QB... although it does end up separating the men from the boys. I wouldn't want Jay Cutler, Carson Palmer, Kerry Collins, or Matt Hasselbeck over Schaub.

Anf the majority of these had what we did not until last year -a defense.

__________________All that is necessary for Evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

Its funny. I always hear that Manning is clutch and Brady etc. I seem to remember a lot of playoff games in which Manning looked terrible. Not only that but his completion to porter in the SB a few years back is a fine example of clutch if I've ever seen one. Clutch is a buzz word with very little substance. For all that Eli is called clutch, we would talk about him that way if Tyree didn't catch the ball with his helmet.

Its funny. I always hear that Manning is clutch and Brady etc. I seem to remember a lot of playoff games in which Manning looked terrible. Not only that but his completion to porter in the SB a few years back is a fine example of clutch if I've ever seen one. Clutch is a buzz word with very little substance. For all that Eli is called clutch, we would talk about him that way if Tyree didn't catch the ball with his helmet.

Mike

We also so easily forget how that pass got to Tyree in the first place. Eli avoided like four or five lineman to get that pass off. Some miracle ****.

We also so easily forget how that pass got to Tyree in the first place. Eli avoided like four or five lineman to get that pass off. Some miracle ****.

Or that pass right before that hit Asante Samuel smack in the hands. The Giants don't win without Samuel's monumental dropped INT. That twist of fate would have definitely changed the way Eli Manning is perceived by the fans and media.

I prefer being up by 20 and choking the life out of my opponent to being down by 2 with less than a minute and marching down the field to get in position for a winning field goal.

One of my big issues with the "clutch" player is that to be "clutch", you have to have made a mistake at some point so that your team got behind. They asked John Elway about all his 4th quarter comebacks and his response was that he wished he'd never been down in the first place. And he said a lot of times, he was having to make up for mistakes he made in the first half of games.

So give me "winning" over "clutch". Or just re-define "clutch" to mean performing at a high level right from the get-go instead of trying to flip a switch and only be good at the end of the game.

He didn't do it vs henne. Against a defense that held our offense to 13 points over 3 quarters he put up 300 yards and 30 points in a quarter and a half. Clutch is how you perform under pressure. He is clutch. That performance was the stuff manning and Brady do. Oh and he led the game winning drive three times. His kicker missed one, his defense let the offense score the fg the second time and finally dre stepped up and ended it again. Mike

He didn't do it vs henne. Against a defense that held our offense to 13 points over 3 quarters he put up 300 yards and 30 points in a quarter and a half. Clutch is how you perform under pressure. He is clutch. That performance was the stuff manning and Brady do. Oh and he led the game winning drive three times. His kicker missed one, his defense let the offense score the fg the second time and finally dre stepped up and ended it again. Mike

did he throw a pick in the fourth qtr and ot? to be honest not sure, almost positive about ot pick but not about the other one