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Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by Myria

For that matter, how is it that GW2 "invented" B2P or the lack of a trinity? Neither were remotely new to gaming in general or MMOs in particular. And DE's, is anyone really claiming they're significantly different from WAR's or Rift's versions anymore?

i agree that B2P has been around for ages -- any online game, altho I dont know of any mmorpg that was b2p

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Well I'll throw my two cents in as well...

I don't see any major changes in Guild Wars 2 that other games, not necessarily limited MMOs, haven't had. The only thing I've found Guild Wars 2 has done differently is level the playing field, instead of making a player work to get to the highest level or invest some time into the game in order to be good at something, they give it to you right away...

Having grown up playing early MMOs, I can't stand modern ones, it's a shame more kids these days didn't get to experience a game that challenges you as they would enjoy the feel that risk brings, accomplishing a task made you feel as though you actually did something, now it's all about cramming content down your throat.

For somebody like me who wants a true sandbox MMO, Guild Wars 2 is still a themepark, quest fest, softcore, carebear of an MMO; there's no risk, death has no meaning or consequence, there are vast safe areas, levels determine whom you fraternize with, the economy is inflated, and community is virtually non existent. Little has changed, and the things that have are the opposite of what I want to see change in an MMO.

Is Guild Wars 2 the most influential MMORPG of 2012, I surely hope not, otherwise the next 5 years are going to be hell all over again.

WoW: Stat progression, BiS gear takes unbelievable amount of grind, expansions add levels and start your gear grind from scratch so if you are away for a year you are no longer viable, no guild battles but rather small 5-10 man battlegrounds and a single zone for "open world’ PvP.

Which of those 2 sounds more like GW2?

I see what you are saying for sure.

So in other words, Guild Wars 2 was influenced by WoW.

WoW was the most influential MMORPG of 2012.

lmao. Sounds about right.

http://imgur.com/a/kU0qSPlayers of Balmung- a compilation of different characters I've come across during my adventures in FFXIV ARR.

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Wanna make some innovations, then increase the roles that each part of the trinity uses dont just get rid of it. if the tanks job is just to stand there and get their asses kicked then you have your typical MMORPG. However if your tank needs to think about Placement, Interrupts, Guiding, LoS, Pathways etc then you have expanded the tanking role. if you just say, no one tanks, then your making the game less complicated not more.

Ill take for example TSW, where the only simple role in that game is healing. Because almost every fighting is a gimmick fight in that game the Tank needs to remember every little detail or else its a wipe. DPS need to follow instruction well too. The only time this isnt critical is when you go into a fight in max gear. but at that points its like running Deadmines with a group of 40's

Also agreed that its way to early to call influences on anything. the game is still in its training pants.

Because i can.I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.Logic every gamers worst enemy.

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Originally posted by koboldfodder

I played it for about two and a half weeks. I enjoyed the art direction and the fact that it was very well done from a technical standpoint (it pretty much worked from day one). But there was no real depth to any of the core systems.

Hearts were just your basic quests without a start NPC or a set number of mobs to kill. It was still Kill these or collect these type of things....every single quest was this way.

You expored things once....and only once, to fill your sheet thingy. Loot was dull and boring. I never got the feeling I got when I first got a Dragoon Dirk from Crushbone. Level 10 sword was a little bit better than a level 9 sword, while not as good as a level 11 sword. Crafting was boring WOW type. PVP was instanced and really meant nothing in terms of the world. The Dynamic events meant nothing either, as they would eventually reset.

Had I never played original Everquest, or Ultima Online or Star Wars Galaxies or EVE I think I would have really enjoyed Guild Wars 2. But I did play those games and when I compare actual substance and complexity of game systems (whether it was SWG and EVE crafting, or EQ's group content or UOs total world) GW2 does not even register.

The MMO genre just does not evolve like other gaming genres. I am tired of WoW clones, or GW2 clones or whatever. I want a game with systems that have actual depth, like SWG's crafting.

GW2 is neither evolutionary nor revolutionary, that is the problem.

Well said. I don't hate GW2, but it gives me that "been there...done that" feel. I don't see how taking away the trinity, no dungeon finder and no mounts makes it "evolutionary". I think it would make it more de-evolutionary. I am apparently not alone in my thinking since my server seems to be becoming more empty each day.

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Originally posted by Ramonski7

Originally posted by eyelolled

There should be no doubt that GW2 was the most influential mmorpg of 2012. Many people were talking about how the game is evolutionary, and a welcome breath of fresh air to the genre. It's won multiple awards like IGN's Best PC Game, IGN's Best PC MMO game, IGN's Best PC Graphics, Massively's Best MMO of 2012, MMORPG.com Most Innovative, Gamespots PC game of the year, Time' s #1 game of the year, and more recently PCGamer's MMO of the Year! There is no denying that GW2 has grabbed a lot of attention, and the loyal fanbase is growing each and every day!

GW2 is the most talked about game on this site still, even after almost 5 months since release. It's the most talked about game this week, and the most talked about game this month. GW2 has more than 3 times as many hits as the next closest game over the last 6 months, and more than 3 times as many hits as the next closest game over the last year.

[mod edit] Nonetheless, I want to thank them too. They really prove how influential the game is. People don't write and talk about meaningless things of little importance. People write and talk about things that affect them or concern them. Each and every thread, each and every reply is another hit on the popularity scale for GW2.

Each post is a testiment to the influence that GW2 has within the genre, even if it is a hate post. This game IS the game worth talking about, and when developers are looking for what games to follow into the future, the most talked about game is a good choice. I look forward to a brilliant future for mmorpg's, with GW2 lighting the way.

EDIT: And if you feel like arguing with me, and telling me I'm wrong, or if you feel like telling me how much you like the game. Keep on speaking. Keep on saying how you feel and lets keep GW2 leading the way through 2013!!!

I hate to echo a redundant point here in the case of your enlightened view of GW2, but popularity alone does not equate to influence in the industry. Influencing what gamers play is one thing, influencing a new generation of developers to mimic what you have created is not so easily accomplished.

Maple Story

Runescape

Lineage

Three games that are more popular than WoW but had little influence within the industry. At the time no developers wanted to mimic what they saw in those games. Take EQ for instance. It was very popular for its time. And it's popularity in turn influenced developers to expand on those ideas. WoW devs were directly quoted as to having been influenced from what they seen and experienced playing EQ. Thus when WoW was created it meet that population threshold set by the mmo before it and exceeded it tenfold. This in turn created a breeding ground of new devs experiencing WoW and being influenced into creating or expanding on that basis.

But the direction of influence is not a straight line. Influence goes in many directions and I'm afraid GW2 is only one of many new mmos that have been influenced by WoW, but only in a different direction. Now GW2 could end up being to a new mmo what EQ was to WoW. That means that in a few years we could have devs that have played and experienced GW2 and carry on that experience to make the next industry influencing mmo. But for now. GW2 has to meet the population threshold set by the mmo before it first before it can become a breeding ground for new developments.

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Originally posted by bigsmiff

Originally posted by koboldfodder

I played it for about two and a half weeks. I enjoyed the art direction and the fact that it was very well done from a technical standpoint (it pretty much worked from day one). But there was no real depth to any of the core systems.

Hearts were just your basic quests without a start NPC or a set number of mobs to kill. It was still Kill these or collect these type of things....every single quest was this way.

You expored things once....and only once, to fill your sheet thingy. Loot was dull and boring. I never got the feeling I got when I first got a Dragoon Dirk from Crushbone. Level 10 sword was a little bit better than a level 9 sword, while not as good as a level 11 sword. Crafting was boring WOW type. PVP was instanced and really meant nothing in terms of the world. The Dynamic events meant nothing either, as they would eventually reset.

Had I never played original Everquest, or Ultima Online or Star Wars Galaxies or EVE I think I would have really enjoyed Guild Wars 2. But I did play those games and when I compare actual substance and complexity of game systems (whether it was SWG and EVE crafting, or EQ's group content or UOs total world) GW2 does not even register.

The MMO genre just does not evolve like other gaming genres. I am tired of WoW clones, or GW2 clones or whatever. I want a game with systems that have actual depth, like SWG's crafting.

GW2 is neither evolutionary nor revolutionary, that is the problem.

Well said. I don't hate GW2, but it gives me that "been there...done that" feel. I don't see how taking away the trinity, no dungeon finder and no mounts makes it "evolutionary". I think it would make it more de-evolutionary. I am apparently not alone in my thinking since my server seems to be becoming more empty each day.

Why do we need the trinity? The trinity assumes aggro is very simply based on yelling at things (OK shouts!!). I think the trinity is DE-evolutionary because the aggro system is so simple.

My server is full and people can't transfer to it. You dont have to play the game, ya know (it has no sub). Unless of course you like to complain.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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Originally posted by boxsndNot so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

Exactly. When I read the OPs post I was wondering if he even knew what influential means. So far I have seen nothing to indicate the GW 2 has influenced other games to do what GW 2 did. And keep in mind that Dynamic Events was done by Rift and then WAR before so GW 2 cannot take credit for that.

However GW 2 is popular but so is McDonalds. Does not mean that it is high quality or even innovative. It simply means that it is catering to a great deal of people. The B2P model is probably what caters to most people as I strongly doubt it would be half as popular if it was subscription based.

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Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by boxsndNot so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

Exactly. When I read the OPs post I was wondering if he even knew what influential means. So far I have seen nothing to indicate the GW 2 has influenced other games to do what GW 2 did. And keep in mind that Dynamic Events was done by Rift and then WAR before so GW 2 cannot take credit for that.

However GW 2 is popular but so is McDonalds. Does not mean that it is high quality or even innovative. It simply means that it is catering to a great deal of people. The B2P model is probably what caters to most people as I strongly doubt it would be half as popular if it was subscription based.

We don't know. I wouldn't call GW2 McDonalds (that would be WoW with the number of people served over time). Rift events are not dynamic, even though they call it that, as they are timed. The same time every day you can expect X rift invasion, etc. They are not even linked, as GW2's are. WAR was similar to Rift so I wouldn't really call them dynamic.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by boxsndNot so fast GW2 fan! If in the near future we see other MMOs adopting things like no trinity, the downed mechanic in PvE and PvP, hearts and dynamic events, overflow servers etc then we might say it's influential. Until then, patience.

Exactly. When I read the OPs post I was wondering if he even knew what influential means. So far I have seen nothing to indicate the GW 2 has influenced other games to do what GW 2 did. And keep in mind that Dynamic Events was done by Rift and then WAR before so GW 2 cannot take credit for that.

However GW 2 is popular but so is McDonalds. Does not mean that it is high quality or even innovative. It simply means that it is catering to a great deal of people. The B2P model is probably what caters to most people as I strongly doubt it would be half as popular if it was subscription based.

wow the McDonalds analogy haven't seen that 5 million times already.. if McDonalds sold crap in a bag literally would it be popular? no of course not.. the food tastes good to millions of people that is why it's popular. GW2 is a fun game and that is why it is selling well and doing well.. not that hard to figure out.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg