Well, I've finally decided to begin a map building project. A word of warning, however! This project will be tackled little by little alongside my other work and activities, so you may not see a final release for a while. But yes, this is the Geonosian Arena project. I feel like I am attempting the impossible, but if you don't try, you never know, right?

Main Points
In order to build the arena, I will need the support of the community. I understand the workings of GtkRadiant now, and I feel confident I can dive into this without too many issues. But any tips about things to watch out for or avoid altogether would be MOST appreciated!

This map will mainly feature the inner ring of the arena and its intricate surrounding walls. However, as an added bonus, I will create walkways around the arena that lead out to the stadium seating, on multiple levels, as well as some rooms on the ground level that hold the warriors or prisoners to be executed, and arena beasts.

As you all know, the walls of the Geonosian Arena are composed of very intricate rock formations and eroded textures. Despite this, I don't think I will be using GenSurf too much unless I really need it for certain wall panels.

:bdroid2: What I need from all of you:bdroid2:

Please send me any reference image you can find of the arena layout, textures, walls, seating, entranceways, floors, etc. If it's a Geonosian texture, I can benefit from it!
I need some shots of the daylight skies over Geonosia.
Where in the map building process do you think I might stumble? Please let me know so I can avoid some major headaches!

Thank you all! No screenshots yet, but hopefully soon. I will begin by building the walkways around the arena.

Jango_Fett91

07-01-2002, 01:34 PM

Cant wait man
;)

Sounds Risky

07-01-2002, 02:23 PM

Something to know and remember is that the arena is actually an oval, and not circular. The four pillars where prisoners are attached to are not in the center of the arena. There are also pillars off to the edge of the arena but I'm not sure how many. There appear to be quite a few gated entrances into the arena (maybe one of the entrances could be where Anakin and Padme where being held before being carted out. There are also a few large spires around the outside of the arena that would look really cool if you put them into the map (you can see them in one of the pictures). Another idea could be the box where Poggle, Dooku, Jango, and Nute were would lead into that "war" room with the large hologram showing the battle on Geonosis.

I decided to put together a rough idea of what the arena floor looks like. The lines are entrances into the arena and the circles are pillars. The three at the bottom are where the Reek, Acklay, and Nexu came from, and the one on the left is a really large entrance. There are other entrances scattered around the edge of the arena, but I can't really pinpoint them all. Hopefully this will help you.

http://www.pe.net/~shoemake/matt/images/arena.jpg

pakmannen

07-01-2002, 07:34 PM

i've got a buch of pics, i collected them to make my sand arena look a little bit more like the geonosian arena.
i can mail them to you if you want. (if i can have your email)

be warned though! the geonosian arena is VERY complex! there are rocks hanging down almost everywere, and it's almost impossible to make the arena look like in the movie.

not to mention the fps. the place is huge! (larger than the "Sand Arena" level)

ah, but just give me your email and i'll send the pics. :)

DaJo Kesea

07-02-2002, 11:18 AM

I see the four pillars in one image, but only three in another. Was one of them removed before the execution set-up? Thanks for those pics, OCH...they are a helpful start. I saw a couple of those on Starwars.com last night but I didn't get to all of them. And thanks for going to the effort to draw a floor diagram.

I know this arena is huge! I'm hoping to "fake" a lot of the stuff that is off in the distance by doing some killer texture art on flat walls, angled at key points. This should cut down on brushes and triangles.

Also, I can't help but put a finger on my chin in thought, and lean in close to study those sky mapping techniques. Might it be possible to fake the arena walls that go straight up so high by making them a sky texture? (Note that with the clever placement of a few DO NOT ENTERs, I should be able to keep the Jedi from ever jumping up to the skybox wall.) Now, how does one build a custom skybox? Spherical cameras in Bryce?

Pakmannen, your pictures would be very helpful! Go ahead and email me at jnday@prodigy.net . I don't mind if anyone else here emails me as well, so that's why I'm posting the addy in broad daylight.

Thanks for all your help!

-------------------
EDIT:

Just got to thinking: If the skybox acts like true distant scenery, the textures may not move with the rest of the map. Hmmm..There must be a way to solve this problem. Maybe a panorama on a giant inner cylinder.

How about I give you all some eye candy? I've decided to maintain a project web site, though I will post a few screens in here as construction gets under way. But for now, please check out http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday.

Nothing monsterous, or substantial. But at least it's something!

__CKY__

07-02-2002, 04:06 PM

Those look real good i cant wait for this level :D its one of my favorite parts i episode 2 thanks for getting the idea tomake it actually look good :lol:

Yes, sounds very good. Can't say about the looks cause the pics don't work. Ihope it's better than the ont i have!

Lucko Mabri

07-03-2002, 06:16 AM

Sounds like a very promising project!

-Lucko Mabri

DaJo Kesea

07-03-2002, 06:56 AM

Wes, what isn't working? To all of you, let me know if you have any problems. Brinkster is a pretty good service, but I'll have to move my updates to another server if I start hitting the bandwidth limit.

I'll work more on this project tonight (EST). I'll test the placement of a sliced up QTVR panorama on a few rounded inner walls. I'll need some help creating a skybox, so I'll scour the forums to see if the topic has been covered. See a later!

Kranckor

07-03-2002, 07:09 AM

Wow I've never scene Bryce used so well :D

DaJo Kesea

07-03-2002, 03:34 PM

Thanks, Kranckor! Bryce is pretty powerful, but I still have trouble with the positive/negative thing that allows models to be cut into. I'll need to figure it out for this map, though.

Hey, everyone.

I didn't get to the part I wanted to get to today. I was back in Bryce trying to model the walls of the arena. From this model, I will gather my textures for the map, and several panels to be placed on extremely tall walls around the arena floor. HOPEFULLY, this will simulate the effect of being in a huge map without it being too complex. Giant walls may increase compile time for me, but hopefully gameplay will still be smooth.

It looks like the skybox issue is a no-go, however. The imagery stays at the same distance from you no matter where you are in the map. For example, if the arena walls were a sky texture, the walls would seem to be moving away from you as you moved toward them, and if you jumped up and looked down, you would see the arena floor over the edge of the solid arena floor that you walk on!

I'm leaving tomorrow for vacation, but I'll be back by Saturday night. At that point, maybe I'll just start throwing stuff into GtkRadiant to see what works. To those of you in America, have a great Independece Day.

Grets Sirob

07-04-2002, 12:42 AM

(well, it's tomorrow for me..)
Thanks!

I hope you figure out your problem, I wish to play on this wonderful arena.
I don't really want to say this, but I almost started thinking about how great that area would be to fight in, during the movie!

Anyway, looking good!
Have a great vacation!

:emperor: I shall rule the galaxy.

nucular_jedi_14

07-07-2002, 01:52 AM

thumper_01@hotmail.com

__CKY__

07-07-2002, 02:46 AM

Yea I will beta test it also :D :lol: well anymore updates so far?

Kranckor

07-07-2002, 03:21 AM

*Clears throat*
Read my sig :D

__CKY__

07-07-2002, 06:02 AM

so your sig is unorginal :lol: so hows the arena coming dude? i can't wait for this map :D

Wes Marrakesh

07-07-2002, 06:10 AM

cky did you actually click that link? that is one ****ing hilarious site! :rofl:

__CKY__

07-07-2002, 06:21 AM

isn't it that peanut butter jelly time thing with the dancing banana? if it is i saw that a long time ago my friend told me about it.

Wes Marrakesh

07-07-2002, 06:56 AM

it is but it is my first time

DaJo Kesea

07-07-2002, 10:11 AM

Hi there! Geez, I go on vacation and we all start going bananas...or talking about them anyway. LOL. Actually, I just clicked that link, and it is funny!

Okay, as you probably guessed, I just got back from vacation now, and I'm ready to keep moving with the arena project. I'm going to alter my gray map, and continue building the model in Bryce. Also, I'll try to erect this thing in GenSurf, but I'm not sure if that will have the desired effect and playability. We'll see. If not, I'll use the completed Bryce model to grab textures, and try to piece this monster together little by little. Stay tuned.

--------------------------------------------------------
EDIT 7/7/02:

Small update to Bryce model. Pic available at my Brinkster site:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday

Thanks to all who have offered to beta test. Once I'm to that stage, you all will get a crack at it, assuming you have various processor speeds, video cards, and memory.

Altimira

07-07-2002, 09:26 PM

Wow DaJo Kesea, i just got done looking at the bryce models. cant wait for some radiant pics. If you need any more beta testers, ill be glad to do it.

keo718

07-07-2002, 11:10 PM

I'd be happy to beta test for you as well.

1.7 ghz
512 MB DDR Ram
GeForce 4 TI 4400 128 MB
Soundblaster Live 5.1

Klorel

07-07-2002, 11:13 PM

COOOOOOOOOOOOL. the new bryce pic blows the other bryce pic away. this is incredible. now can you convert this to jkradiant easily? how is this going to work, and pleas dont say that its just a skybox, i want to run around up there and hide behind the giant wall, and once the co-op mod comes out, maybe someone could make those 3 beasts to fight as well, and it would be a shame to not be able to fight up there. great work.

Sinister1

07-07-2002, 11:20 PM

Great work!

I agree with Klorel, that a co-op mode with this map or a multiplayer game-mode where you and a bunch of your fellow Jedi Players come up against 3 of those AI monsters, each packing a ****load of hit-points and taking ages to beat. Sure would be heaps of fun!

{xg}darthVADER

07-08-2002, 01:13 AM

hi i am working on this map aswel i was wondering maybe we can help each other
what do ya say?

Lucko Mabri

07-08-2002, 01:49 AM

I'd luv to test it! When its ready for testing send to lmbr24280@blueyonder.co.uk

um, how are you planning on making this map if all there is is a model?

Wes Marrakesh

07-08-2002, 03:01 AM

i'll beta!
1.33 ghz AMD Athalon
GeForce 2 PRO
i think 156mb of ram

__CKY__

07-08-2002, 04:40 AM

enough beta testing askers wait TILL he actually says something about beta testing lol and that new pic looks really good dude i can not wait for this level now :D good luck with it all and are you goin to scatter droid parts around it ?

inbredyokel

07-08-2002, 09:48 AM

Wow...your progress is looking quite nice. It might just be me, but the walls of the arena seemed a little more red in the movie, almost a clay color. But that's something you probably can't help at this point if you're using Bryce. I am pretty sure that a decent chunk of the arena was covered and in complete shade though, but I'm guessing you're aware of that from all the reference pics you have. I'll shut up now :)

DaJo Kesea

07-08-2002, 12:14 PM

Ok, I better get my butt out of Bryce and into Radiant. I think I have what I need to get some textures on the models.

To answer some of your questions:
[list=1]
Getting the arena from Bryce to Radiant may not be easy at all. GtkRadiant (not JKRadiant) has a terrain constructor plugin called GenSurf that might work, but also might slow things down to 2fps! So we'll see. But I definitely plan on having places to fight OTHER than the arena floor, so the entire map will definitley not just be an oval surrounded by flat walls.
I don't know anything about the new co-op mod, but that sounds cool. I would love to be able to have Jedi with multicolored sabers all on the same side, set up in a skirmish. And the idea for the arena beasts sounds awesome, but right now that is beyond my abilities and amount of time I have for projects like this. If anyone wants to look into building the arena monsters, animating them, and programming their actions, let me know. I'd be glad to implement that into a single player version, or multiplayer v2.0 of this map.
Don't worry about the color too much at this point. Once I'm in Radiant and start putting up some screenies of the map, feel free to direct me in my placement of lighting so I get the proper hues for an arid, dusty, late afternoon climate.
[/list=1]

darthVADER, email me at jnday@prodigy.net, and we'll talk.

Again, thanks for all the beta tester offers. We'll get to that eventually, but you guys do have the right idea in posting your computer info. That's helpful, thanks. I'll be asking you all to raise your hands again for the job later on...just let me build it first! :D

Thanks for your all your support and your compliments about my Bryce work. The real meat has yet to come. If anyone has any more pictures of the arena, especially rare ones, please post 'em. I don't know if I can get this thing exactly like the movie, but with your help, I'll try. Here we go!

DaJo Kesea

07-09-2002, 04:24 AM

Uggh...back in school again.

My school goes year round, and I have a few night classes this quarter. I may not be able to post many updates for the next 11 weeks, but I'll keep checking here to see what you have to say. See you all soon.

t3rr0r

07-09-2002, 11:29 PM

just a little bit of info, terrain generators don't slow fps down that much unless you let it.

Emon

07-09-2002, 11:43 PM

Right. Also, that arena floor is flat, all you need is some minor variation in elevation.

DaJo Kesea

07-09-2002, 11:49 PM

I'm not too worried about the arena floor elevation. (The only concern I have with that is actually making the sound of crunching/shifting sand as Kyle or another character runs on it, rather than the standard "clop clop" of boots on stone or metal.)

I wanted to use the terrain constuctor to erect the giant walls and stadium around the arena floor.

Jango_Fett91

07-10-2002, 11:34 AM

Member to make the sand area Reaaaaall Big!;)

winner_rex

07-10-2002, 01:13 PM

hey DaJo I was wondering if perhaps you wanted to use my LAAT model I'm developing to put in the arena to perhaps break up the level a bit...
http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68201
lemme know

inbredyokel

07-10-2002, 02:17 PM

That actually might be a cool addition to a co-op map(if what I'm proposing is possible). Someone in the modeling forum is building a low poly battle droid, planning to use an arena type level(maybe this one) to pit 3-8 jedi against hoards of droids. Maybe after death the jedi could respawn in groups after so many seconds in a LAAT and be delivered back to the arena. That would make quite the awsome level.

[edit]Or, even better(but more difficult), after killing the alotted number of enemies(and completing the level), the level could end with a couple of LAATs flying in, raking down the remaining droids, and delivering the remaining jedi to safety.[edit]

winner_rex

07-10-2002, 03:01 PM

I agree, scripted sweetness

DaJo Kesea

07-11-2002, 10:53 AM

Winner_rex,
Neat idea! I just visited your thread, and you're doing a nice job. However, the LAAT does need a little bit more realistic detail. The pictures that were supplied by the person who replied to you should help you out greatly! Goodness, that scene went by too quickly in the movie for me to see all the complexities of those awesome ships! And look a the mini Star Destroyers in the background! Wow!

To the community, hey, if anyone wants to build some static prefabs like winner suggested, go ahead. Not sure exactly where I'll put them in the map, but it would be cool to have some direlict droid walkers and what not. I wonder if it is possible to put some working gun turrets (that you can sit in and activate) into a MP map, too?

One big question I have for all of you is how do I get a sky texture to emit light? And is the sky box supposed to cause a leak during the compile process? (Seems to load fine into JKII) I am underway here. But what I have to show right now would make you wonder how old or how sane I really am (LOL), so I'll just wait until I have something a little more substantial. I had a funny experience, though. For the temporary ground texture, I used Yavin's slip dirt. Never use this! Use Yavin gravel instead. Slip dirt is called slip dirt because it...well...makes you slip! When I tested the map, Kyle was sliding around like he was on ice skates, overly defying the rules of friction. It was hilarious! Oh well...back to designing!

Hanch Saode

07-11-2002, 07:49 PM

Dang!

I am so looking forward to this map!!!

It is probably one of the most wanted maps IMO...

And the whole idea with battledroids and stuff.....

Just hope there will come a propper mod for co-op.....

What about....bot support?? This IS a plan in the project i guess?

(stupid question maybe)

DaJo Kesea

07-12-2002, 04:22 AM

Bot support is my intent. (I actually prefer loading it into SP and spawning a bunch of Reborn bosses...hehe...development is so much fun!..., but my goal for this level really is to make a nice MP experience.)

I'm learning as I go. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have yet to fully understand the skybox. Also, the BIG room on the ground level of the arena, the one surrounded by two domed rock formations... is that the room Anakin and Padme were brought out of, or the room that held the arena beasts? Anyone have any pictures of this room?

Hanch Saode

07-12-2002, 05:31 AM

Just hope you end up having a map that really makes one feel, that it is a huge arena, and such...just as in the movie...! :D

Sithcloak

07-12-2002, 06:59 AM

Awsome job! Keep it going, this map will be so much fun. Sorry I can't help to much, but if you somehow lack beta testers (which I doubt) I could help out in that arena.

Sithcloak

lo5t_h0pe

07-12-2002, 08:48 AM

he he. . .arena. . .get it? help out. . .arena. . .oh never mind.

studman0201

07-12-2002, 09:37 AM

Dajo Before you add guns and stuff could I use your map in a sp mod. I already have most of the new npc jedi ready. I am pretty good, but not good enough to create a map of that quality. As always I will give you full credit as the author, in fact I will say you are the author of the sp level version. I was going to use all the new models coming out. Currently I have most of the jedi seen in the battle npced, and I know how to get them in maps. So if you could I would greatly apreciate it. I am quite good at designing large scale battles. I can also script pretty good. So if you would because I would love to make it for you.

DaJo Kesea

07-12-2002, 11:53 AM

Studman, maybe. But there's not much on my end yet, so we'll get to questions like yous later on. I hope to post an update tonight...well..um...this morning. Hehe. But no promises just yet.

Also, I noticed you made a similar offer about making non-replacement character npcs in the Yoda forum. Have you really figured this out??? I'd like to see this in action if you wouldn't mind passing the process along, though I promise I will not steal your work.

Hey all, I just got a really, really good pic to work from. It's only 3/4 of the arena, though. I still need that big tunnel picture. But this is really one of the best detail shots I've seen: Prop builders at ILM design the Geonosis Arena (http://www.vfxpro.com/Graphics/Content/Big/attack.060702.15.Big.jpg)

studman0201

07-12-2002, 12:03 PM

Yes I have In general editing I have a big thread explaining the process

edit: the link is
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68203&pagenumber=1

DaJo Kesea

07-12-2002, 03:35 PM

Ok, well I'm not really upset or anything. I'm just yelling because this thread is on page 2 and there is no real game footage yet. I had planned on making a significant update tonight but it just isn't ready. Sorry, guys! Well, I guess the worst you all could do is boycott this thread...LOL.

Just a little patience, please. I will be working hard again tomorrow night and hopefully I'll have something for the community. Things ARE going well so far, and my textures are importing well into Radiant. The blade texture looks so cool! I can't wait to show you, but if I compile now there will be many leaks.

Too many things going on in my life. I wish I had time for my hobbies like I did when I was a kid. (I'd also be in the middle of a nice, long break right now.) All of you going to regular colleges and various schools, SAVOR this time in your life! You will miss it!

DaJo Kesea

07-12-2002, 04:08 PM

Interesting thread you have going there, studman. And sorry to hear about your brother commandeering your computer! Well, you're alright in my book. I'll be looking forward to your tutorial. Can't wait to spawn a few npcs that actually look like Sith or Dark Jedi warriors. I'm tired of these crazy Reborn who wear neon red and yellow, or green and blue.

Sorry I'm a little off topic, but guess what?...I'm in charge of this thread and that means I'm entitled to say whatever I please...LOL. Anyway, I had an idea for a mod that would beef up force absorb a bit. It sure would be nice to be able to absorb force lightning! Dessan would have to come up with a new tactic! Somebody is working on a new force power mod, but I can't remember his name. But if you're out there and reading this, maybe its' something worth looking into?

The Arena is coming...just hang tight. :)

Hanch Saode

07-12-2002, 09:49 PM

Uuuuhhh.....as times passes by, I get even more impatient :D:D

Looking so forward to see some of your screens of your project!

Happy fragging :D

winner_rex

07-13-2002, 12:27 AM

brother....right;)

I was looking at the image, and I realized what may be effective is forced perspective.

I dont know if you've ever been to disneyland, but in main street, a street full of old style buildings, the first floor is full scale, the second is 3/4 of that, and so on.

For the arena, you could have say, four floors full scale, then two 3/4 floors clipped off, then even more smaller floors.

To indicate distance, you could make doorways of the same scale.

The only problem I can see is when people forcejump the illusion might be broken.

I'll try putting this into radient.
:)

winner_rex

07-13-2002, 05:10 AM

ok DaJo this is just a suggestion/demonstration i whipped up.

I used forced perspective in this map to varying degrees of success.

Here is my simple arena made of endcaps (only one side)
http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test0.jpg

I made the arena out of curves because with such a large map, the Q3 engine automatically LODS curves the further away you are, which is usually in a map this size beneficial. Also, the amount of doors increases as you get higher up.

Now, here is a shot with shadowtroopers for scale.
http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test1.jpg

Now although the map really is big, the STs show how the size of the levels gradually decrease.

Okay, here I have added some of my beta LAATs
http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test2.jpg
Scale is once more demonstrated.

http://home.adelphia.net/~nraec1/wip/test3.jpg
However, in this shot I scaled and lowered the detail of the LAATs and put them above the arena. It still looks like they are high above, but you can see the true size of the models.

In conclusion, I find that the LAAT scaling as well as the perspective tricks worked pretty well...What do you think?

Hanch Saode

07-13-2002, 05:54 AM

Would it be possible to make some of those LAAT's fly over the map??? Just like the single player lvl artus_topside...

Could be cool, and would make at good atmosphere in the map :)

winner_rex

07-13-2002, 06:01 AM

Yes, it would be possible. I am trying to figure out whether trains can sett off triggers by flying through them., then there would be an illusion of laser bombardment.

hmm...

Second test map commencing!

lo5t_h0pe

07-13-2002, 06:57 AM

your test pictures look good with that implimented. since games haven't come to an age where distance is blurred yet, if you are going to have these ships flying over, i see two things you could do to aid the effect and even make it easier on the computer:

1) make the ships on the train far less detailed. at a distance, no one will notice, but that way, less polys will be on the screen and rates can keep running smooth.

2) make a couple layers of train ships, but the farther away ones, just make them really small models. like i said, games don't blur, so people wouldn't know the difference. make them think they are way up there in the sky, but in reality, have the train layers only a couple feet apart but moving at different speeds. could work quiite well at making a great atmosphere, and at the same time not be so taxing on the CPU and GPU.

that's my two cents.

winner_rex

07-13-2002, 07:00 AM

As for #1) If DaJo were to use it, It would be a low poly version as stated earlier.

For #2, I agree

Where's DaJo anyway?

DaJo Kesea

07-13-2002, 01:51 PM

I'm here...trying to stay awake...LOL.

I think I'm getting my second wind now. Here's the scoop. I'm still building the ground level of the map, but I think I have started too many areas down there, making it difficult to reach a stopping point so I can give you all some screens. I can GUARANTEE you that you will see some progress this weekend. I have gathered the major textures from my Bryce model, and I'm in the process of perfecting them in Photoshop and Painter.

Thanks for your help, winner_rex. I'll see where I can go with your method. The info about curves being LODed is good stuff! I was worried that the more curves I put in this map, the worse it was going to run. Also, winner, if you can get your LAAT idea working, and the model just a little more photorealistic, I'll be glad to implement your method of a few overhead flyby's.

Back to work!

winner_rex

07-13-2002, 01:54 PM

no prob'm DaJo,

now I'm going to ask all you people waiting for this map to help me skin my LAAT...I simply cannot skin/texture very well. So If anyone would like to help me please PM me so the arena map is everything it should be.

Hanch Saode

07-14-2002, 02:36 AM

You do know that you are playing with my patience here right? :D:D

Just kidding....can't wait to see some screenies!!

Hoping that it is working out this map :)

Uhuhuhuhuhh.......CAN'T WAITTT!!!

DaJo Kesea

07-14-2002, 03:54 PM

Don't get too excited, though. I just sealed up one of the many duplicate entry point rooms on the ground level (minus the columns that will cover the seams where the curves meet the solid wall). Lighting is really killing me. I would like to simulate daylight entering a non-lit room, but from past experience, I have noticed that putting the light in the doorway doesn't cut it, and it does some strange things to my curves. But I'm getting there.

Some info about the latest screenshot:
Textures are completely custom-made. The blade texture is the main feature here. These textures are on all the walls inside the rooms surrounding the arena. I think they are also on the base of the lookout towers.
If the lighting was correct in this room, the textures would appropriately simulate an area lit only by the doorway (which does not yet exist). Hopefully when I move the light closer to the door, things will look better. Right now I have a good blade texture sitting on yellow wrinkly paper walls. I'm working on it. :-)

Here's the update: www24.brinkster.com/jnday (http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday) Plenty of space to jump around in this room in case you get trapped! :-)

What's to come:
Geonosis circular prison cells! (How do I make an object glow like the saber?)
Arena floor with execution pillars and lookout towers.
Some exciting rock texture art I'm sure you'll love. Why? It was photosourced from the movie!

Stay tuned!

winner_rex

07-14-2002, 03:59 PM

My suggestion would be to line up the textures of the bevel and the walls as opposed to covering them. Also, I think the blades may be better either inset, or just flush with the walls; they're inlays, not piping.

keep it up!

Hanch Saode

07-14-2002, 08:14 PM

Aarrr!! You know that, that screenshot is what I'd call a teaser :D:D

Though I think it looks pretty cool anyway...nice to hear that you are progressing! Waiting to hear some more!

DaJo Kesea

07-15-2002, 04:10 PM

Hi all! I'm going to post a few new screenshots here. I'm having some major problems, though, and I'm hoping a few of you might be able to help me out. One thing I'm sure you'll agree on in these next photos is that the textures are better. But lighting is horrible. I just can't seem to get a dim light. That's not my only problem with lighting, though. Here we go.

(You'll have to copy/paste the direct links to the screens. Brinkster won't let me link them.)

The first issue is this:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/shot0005.jpg

Why am I so tall? The player character is supposed to be 64 units tall, right? I think that's what that blue indicator in Radiant is representative of? Also, I would think that the info_playerstart box would be the size of the character in game. That door is supposed to be TOWERING over my head, but right now I'm nearly bonking my head on it! (There's also some caulking mistakes inside the doorway, but that's easy to fix.)

The second issue has to do with lighting:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/shot0006.jpg

All the manuals say that the sky shader emits it's own light. That would probably solve the whole problem I'm having with lighting in my entire map! Unfortunately, unless I place a light entity in the center of the map, nothing in my map shows up but the sky. How do I make the sky emit sunlight and cast shadows, and how do I place dim fill lights in my scene?

The third screenshot is just to show off the new entry room, though there are some major problems here with lighting, caulking, and a...um...missing surface?:
http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/shot0007.jpg

If I'm going to have a light in these rooms, I need them to be dim and not so contrasty. How do I dim that light?

Thanks for all your help. Once these problems are solved, onward I will go. :)

winner_rex

07-16-2002, 01:17 AM

DaJo:
For the first issue, I wouldn't worry about it; The geonosians were about half as tall as humans, If you 'll recall. But if you want to change it it looks like you can just move the two brushes on either side over a little more, delete the arches, and start again.

A good way to find scale is putting in a misc model of a "player/shadowtrooper/test.md3". Also, make sure you align those wall textures. Textures can easily make or break a level...so get real familiar with the surface inspector.

Quick question, do you build everything out of caulk, then texture? It's easier to do that because you only have to texture what you can see instead of trying to get the camera between brushes. After all, you build a house before you paint it.

Second, the sky you are using, Bespin, does not emit light and sky named "something_light" does. Try hitting N, clicking worldspawn, and typing (class)ambient (key)1 1 1 for a temporary fix (hopefully!). This may eliminate the need for filler lights, but you can always just make low intensity lights (50-100) and scatter them in rooms. Also, for the arena floor, if that is a custom texture, try making it a little more yellow. Then, shift-click it and scale it to...1.25 for X and Y, then rotate it by an odd number of degrees. This will make it more natural.

Third, I would say that 90% the missing surface is caulked. If I may make a suggestion, how about caulking over the wall, and making it a bumpy patch mesh. This is constructive criticism, but the walls look very angular and there are lots of cracks evident.

I am glad you took the piping suggestion to heart.

You are doing a great job, and we'll always be here to help so don't be afraid to ask questions!

Keep it up!

DaJo Kesea

07-16-2002, 02:06 AM

Winner_rex,

As always, your suggestions are helpful. I did agree with you about the blades that ran along the walls. They did need to be more "embossed" into the wall, rather than act as a ledge to stand on.

For scale, I guess I can't rely on the blue indicator on the left height dragger window. I will place a couple shadowtrooper entities for height. Those tunnels on the ground level of the map are actuallly really large because more species than just Geonosians go in and out of them. Also, I don't think that the ground level wall is meant to be force-jumped over. So I do want to make it pretty high.

Thanks for the lighting tip. As soon as you said it, I said, "Boy am I an idiot! Right next to the bespin shader was one called artus_light!" Eventually I'll want to make a custom sky shader that emits golden sunlight.

I'm going to redo those upper walls in the entry room. I agree that they should be more natural. I'll also boost the ambience a bit. I think that is necessary. Thanks again!

Jango_Fett91

07-16-2002, 09:52 AM

Heres a hint DaJo Kesa, You should of edited off that geonosis driod factory and add the arena ontop of it. So It would also have the geonosis driod factory!

:fire3: :fire2:

winner_rex

07-16-2002, 10:02 AM

heh, I made that map, it...is possible.

DaJo Kesea

07-16-2002, 11:52 AM

Sorry, no updates tonight. I'm away from home, but I am taking the suggestions that were made to heart. And I AM learning! :)

I think the driod factory and the arena were separate areas, but I could be wrong. Also, this map is going to be HUGE as it is. For a while I thought that I had hit the scale limit or something on the map, so the game shrunk it a bit. But thankfully I was wrong. The player is actually more than 64 units high.

See you guys again sometime in the middle of this week. I'll be working hard till then.

lo5t_h0pe

07-16-2002, 03:27 PM

i'm helping rex with the skin on his ship, so i now will be taking part of the blame if it doesn't shape up pretty soon. it will, don't worry. we're on it.

anyway, i was just thinking after playing ladder2 for about half an hour that if you did this as a quality SP at some point, the best way to do it might possibly just be an advanced ladder where droids keep coming at you and whatever else you want to throw at us. could be a very good level, if the massive size would allow for that much AI to exist at the same time. that's the tough part there.

just some thoughts. keep it coming. i have faith in this project.

Hanch Saode

07-16-2002, 08:36 PM

You guys are killing me :D

Well...some really good idea's there...though O personally don't like a droid factory in the map....wouldn't fit in I think...kust the arena and stuff to the arena is enough for me :)

Eklin

07-18-2002, 03:44 AM

in the screenshot that you have, a lot of the wall textures aren't lining up. Also, those two horizontal lines that go along the walls look a little too purple. They should be like a dark grey or something.

DaJo Kesea

07-18-2002, 07:09 AM

The lighting was really screwed up in those last screenshots, Elkin. Nothing was as it is supposed to be.

HOWEVER, I have just about completed the entry room using a lot of patches and curves. It looks a million times better, and the frame rate is still decent. I just have a little touch up work to do in there, and then it will be ready. (I'll post a screenshot before I proceed.)

From that point, I will duplicate the entry point room several times and place them in a large oval, exits facing inward. A long hallway will also connect these rooms from behind, with a few ground level prison cell entrances along the opposite wall. The entry point rooms will all face inward toward the arena floor (next on my list of things to construct). Once all this is done, the ground level will be complete, and all that will be left to do is build UP!

Two (really four) questions:
1. Do detail brushes handle shadows and light just like structural ones? What about patches?
2. Second, does sky lighting pass through solid objects, constantly illuminating the floor even within rooms? If so, how do I make negative light or simulate shadows?

If anyone has a relatively close-up picture of the execution pillars, please send me one. I need to duplicate the texture and any possible deviation from the standard cylinder that might be near the top. I'm also going to revamp some of my textures since I now realize I can go higher than 256 px on textures that need to be large!

winner_rex

07-18-2002, 08:23 AM

Hmm, those are questions for Rich.
I think structural brushes should only be "anything touching the void" at least according to some sites.

Here's a pic from the Padme Action figure, and it's reasonably accurate, though shorter...
http://www.rebelscum.com/photo.asp?image=swsaga/swsaga0202padmeaelooseltfront.jpg

Rock on

DaJo Kesea

07-18-2002, 09:02 AM

Ok, I have the Padme action figure. So if her pillar is accurate, I'll go from that. Thanks for the pic. Rich is a good guy for help, too, thanks. His tutorials inspired me to start this project.

Well, I'm going to go get some junk food for inspiration :D and get back to work for the night. I hope to have something to show by sometime after midnight.

BTW, I found that putting a bevel on the floor where it meets the wall makes it look like sand pushed up against the edges of the room. Pretty neat! The trick is, again, lining up the textures.

Eklin

07-18-2002, 09:38 AM

Might I suggest that for the wall textures, that rather than using that brown, wave-like one that you currently have, that you use more of a dotted, dirt-like texture.
It would probably make an easier job lining everything up, since it would be pretty much seemless.

Or, you could just blend the two different textures together, to give it some variety.

EDIT: Nevermind. I just took a look at some of those messedup screens that you have, and the textures look really good.

RichDiesal

07-18-2002, 11:17 AM

I have been summoned? :p

Structural vs detail brushes make no difference in terms of visual quality. Both structural and detail brushes will look identical in-game.

The only difference between them is that detail brushes do not block the VIS process. Read Detail Brushes tutorial for more in-depth coverage. :)

As for patches, however, that's a bit different. Light shining on the front of a patch will be blocked (and cast a shadow) - however if you have any light source behind a curve, it will shine through as if the patch wasn't even there.

Sky lighting (if you're talking about a sky shader emitting surfacelight or sunlight) will shine just as if it was real lighting...it will not pass through any brushes.

Although incidentally, you can create negative light by adding the key light and a negative value. :D

winner_rex

07-18-2002, 11:33 AM

ya learn something every day

DaJo Kesea

07-19-2002, 01:39 AM

Rich! Hi, and welcome! :) I had emailed you previously about how much I enjoyed, and benefited from your tutorials. jnday@prodigy.net. Thanks for contributing here.

LucasForums was down last night when I tried to post an update, so here it is! I'm happy with the results, especially with the new sand texture, complete with boot prints! Of course, it may start looking too much like a beach volleyball arena, so we'll have to see. But for now, I'm happy.
www24.brinkster.com/jnday (http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday)
I wonder if any light is getting behind those patches on the walls? I hope not. Actually, I'm hoping that the only reason the room is so bright with so little shadows is because I put the sky right in the doorway! That's only temporary until I create the arena floor. Any critcisms are welcome, but please hurry before I begin duplicating and rotating these rooms late tonight.

Question: How do I change the "clop clop" walking sound to more of a shuffling on sand sound in certain parts of the arena? Any way to make dust fly when you fall as well?

Thanks to all for your help, especially winner_rex and Rich. With the community behind me, things will work out just fine.

winner_rex

07-19-2002, 01:54 AM

booya! looking good!
It doesnt look like any light is seeping through from the shots, like you said its probably because of the sky being so close. Also, another suggestion would to change the grey wall textures...as a temporary replacement I would suggest the yavin/v_ series textures. [edit] no, i take it back...use http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday/images/entry.jpg the rock texture from this shot...
Everything else is looking great!

lo5t_h0pe

07-19-2002, 09:08 AM

the room is looking good. goes well with the mood. not sure how to suggest to light it. a bit bright right now. the room anakin and padme were in in the movie was pretty dark, so i would say go for that. ambient light seeping in kind of like caustics off the sand. as for the walls, i almost like the old textures better. they seemed smoother and more natural. the new one seems a bit too busy, if that makes sense. other than that, looks good and i look forward to when you move out of the rooms to the REAL fun.

inbredyokel

07-19-2002, 12:13 PM

To light the rooms, couldn't you just have an illuminated arch-shaped polyhedron angling down onto the floor, like light coming into a dusty room through a window. This effect can be seen in Ente's level "PadHall" in the upper windows
http://www.jedioutcastmaps.com/core/241/b19.jpg
Then, just have the rest of the room dimlit lighted the same throughout to make it look like the light is diffusing off the sand, since the direct sunlight won't be able to reach the walls and ceiling.

DaJo Kesea

07-19-2002, 12:37 PM

inbredyokel, I like that idea. In fact, I would like to use it for the ceiling spotlights in the prison cells. However, I think that the entryway is too large for that effect to realistically happen in these entry-point rooms. But yes, my intent is to have these rooms dark, with the textures barely visible through ambient lighting, and fill lights in certain spots to simulate reflected light.

Where can I find the shader for adding dusty light cones? And how would I go about making a glowing orb in the center of a room? (You'll see what I have in mind later.)

More to come. (I found the majority of the boot prints to be the size of Kyle's entire leg, so I might tweak that a bit before proceeding.)

winner_rex

07-19-2002, 12:45 PM

for the orb, you could make a glass sphere brush and put a light entity inside of it...
or, i think in the flares folder there are flare effects but when i applied a flare to one surface it gave me an error message...but you could try it as a box...

Lucreides

07-19-2002, 02:18 PM

The map sounds wonderful! Unfortunately, I can't access your site to see the progress thus far. Can anyone mirror the pics on a different server?:confused:

winner_rex

07-19-2002, 02:25 PM

looks like they disabled hotlinking...
copy and paste

Lucreides

07-19-2002, 02:34 PM

AH! I see. How could I have been so absent-minded. Thanks for knocking some screws loose.

The Map: Looks wonderful so far, needs better lighting (I know, this has been said many times). I'm looking forward to your progress on this gargantuan undertaking!:D

winner_rex

07-19-2002, 02:49 PM

To be fair, he can't accurately create light until the map is essentially finished...so everyone knows:

Do not comment on the light yet

that is all:)

Eklin

07-19-2002, 03:01 PM

Sweet mother of Yoda!
Those latest shots are awesome!

I don't really see any problem with the lighting. Maybe it's because I have no experience in mapping.

pakmannen

07-19-2002, 05:21 PM

when editing a shader, there is the ability to change the "material" to "sand".

don't know what this does though. and there are no such sounds in the assets files.

however, i may have some sand sounds from another game, footsteps and such, i shall look into this.

garak88

07-20-2002, 01:55 PM

Hey, this looks like its going to be a really incredible map, lots of beautiful detail. I had a question though, I don't know much about mapping, but I was wondering if it were possible to make the pillars in the center of the arena collapsable like they are in the final duel with Desann? Its probably impossibly complicated, I just thought I would bring it up.

GoldenFrog

07-20-2002, 02:06 PM

I didn't know the pillars were collapsible! I beat him in 7 tries by running up to him and slicing at him a lot.

Oh well...

I think the map is GREAT! It is looking wonderful!

winner_rex

07-20-2002, 02:14 PM

In an SP version they could collapse.
In an MP version they could break.

booya grandma

DaJo Kesea

07-20-2002, 04:48 PM

Hi, all!

No updates tonigt...er... this morning :D, but I would like to say that things are going well. Thank you ALL for you wonderful compliments and contributions. Pakmannen, yes, thank you for mentioning the sound once again. That's a bridge I need to cross eventually.

Right now I'm having a little trouble with an arch I created. Just like the large arch that worked fine, I placed a bevel at the edge of the doorway, and added a thickness of 18. This makes a nice arch, by the way! However, in game it seems to be pulling apart. It may be because I ungrouped it and now each bevel is taking on different bend characteristics. I'll probably redo that arch without ungrouping, and I bet it will look just fine, so just hang tight a while. I must fix the minor issues as they come along, or I'll forget about them and give you beta testers a real workout!

I know the little stone structures in the throne room with Desann are breakable, but I didn't know you could collapse pillars! Nifty! Probably not an option available in MP, though. However, I am thinking I might make a few areas in the map deceptively breakable. What do I mean by that? Well, let's just say you're in a major saber fight and you corner your opponent. Suddenly, your saber taps a weaknness in the stone wall behind him, and the ledge gives, sending your opponent careening down from some high place back onto the arena floor. OUCH! But sweet! I'll see what I can do!

The pillar textures are complete now as well. They look pretty good, I think.

Nobody really knows exactly what the walkways behind the seating area really look like, so I guess I can feel free to take some artistic liberties! If anyone feels compelled to make a statue prefab of a Geonosian guard, fee free. I'll make some pedestals around the backs of entranceways and place these guys on them. Just a thought.

To bed I must go. Tomorrow/today is another day. Night all!

Hanch Saode

07-20-2002, 07:38 PM

Uuuhhh....maybe no pictures, but a long post as yours are certainly just as good for us "waiters" :) Thank you again, for you new info on the map :D:D Sound like you have some cool ideas...that hing you mentioned about falling through this crack you can make in the wall...something like the detail in the duel_kamino ? When you fall out the edge...and then jump very high above, and end in the center of the map...is that would you ment?

Sounds good what you say!

darth_micke

07-20-2002, 08:18 PM

Here comes a little droid.....just wanna tell ya it looks awesome!!!

Keep it up!

garak88

07-20-2002, 11:54 PM

This is one of the best threads in this forum, mostly due to DaJo Kesea's constant updates and long responses. I'm really excited about this map, it should be great.

DaJo Kesea

07-21-2002, 12:11 AM

Thank you very much. You guys are making it great for me, too. I'm feeding off of your positive energy.

Hanch, I believe Rich placed trigger throws above the water in his map so that players who love the force grip- and push-off-a-ledge combo can't always win a battle that way. That's not what I meant exactly. I think I might make part of the stone wall in the VIP area (Count Dooku's platform) breakable, so that a player can slip through and hit the arena floor with maybe 20 points of damage. Sort of a cross between the balcony scene in Spiderman, and what really happened to Mace Windu in Episode II.

DaJo Kesea

07-21-2002, 12:13 AM

Winner_rex..to answer your question... I chose thickened bevels because in some cases I need to move the point where the two arches meet so that the arch has a more natural, rocky look. I also want more of a point than a nice, smooth, rounded off arc. These types of arches are called "blade arches" and can be found in churches from the Romanesque and Gothic era.

Hmm, I need to locate a nice, smooth sandstone texture for the arena walls near to the floor. Any help on finding/creating textures from this point forward will be recognized and fully appreciated!

I promise to make the arena as interesting as I can, though I think many people will be happy with just having the battleground to pit themselves against battle droids and other Jedi. Anyone know if a Droideka is being built? Hmm...Droideka with a lightsaber might not look quite right, but it would certainly be sweet for a SP version of this map!

Stay tuned. Once I overcome the texture hurdle, up the walls will go!

Hanch Saode

07-21-2002, 01:48 AM

Ah! ok...now I follow...

Sounds good nonetheless :)

But I ain't seen Spiderman...yet :p

winner_rex

07-21-2002, 01:48 AM

why make arches w/ bevels instead of endcaps?

inbredyokel

07-21-2002, 04:28 AM

It's a pity force push can't slow a fall. It would make players much more mobile in tall levels like this. As far as adding destructability to this level, the more the better. As a co-op level, keeping this map interesting shouldn't be a problem since everyone will be too busy raking down battle droids. But for regular MP with only a few people, it could get a little boring being in an empty arena. If there will be back corridors to hide in, you want to give people an incentive to stay out in the open where they're exposed and fight. Any kind of traps, etc. would add a lot to make the actual arena the most interesting part of the level.

DaJo Kesea

07-22-2002, 02:41 AM

This new server that they moved to seems a lot slower than the old one. I hope it will eventually be a change for the better.

My posts are being placed out of order for some reason. Winner_rex and inbredyokel, you'll have to scroll up to get my reply to you, unless this post is placed somewhere in the middle as well. I hope you all find it!

<<EDIT: Lucasforums clock must have been messed up yesterday. My post is where it belongs.>>

I managed to fix my arch. Still not sure what was going on with the inner arch pulling away from the rest of it, even using a thickened endcap, but I read that bending a square cylinder is actually the best way to go for this shape. So that's what I did, and it looks fine! The shadows are even better around it.

The only problem I see with this map is that sometimes if you are backed into a corner and you jump to get out of the way, the camera sometimes swings behind the patches, revealing the caulking, and thus creating the hall of mirror effect. It goes away, of course, once the camera angle resolves, so I'm not too concerned about it. But if you have any workarounds, I'll listen.

The next update will be soon, so keep checking in. Need to keep yourself occupied until then? Lift up your right arm and try to lick your elbow. (That'll keep ya busy!)

D@rth M@ul

07-22-2002, 02:19 PM

I just reviewed your site.

Great job.

I really like what you did with the sand texture, I hope jk2's engine
will act as halo's, even though the ground isn't three-d it will seem
that way by adding shadows in a paint program and allowing
light to move over it if you know what I mean.

I really like that sand, and nice bryce image.. hehe the jedi's
fought in a big pond did they? :D

keep up the good work.

Hanch Saode

07-22-2002, 02:31 PM

Yeah...the sand tex. is really looking good!! I like that part..

But one thing that I am really exited is to see the surrounding "skybox" or what it was you decided to call it...

I'm thinking of the big cliff formations and the surroundings of the arena....can't wait to see what you end up with that :)

Great work so far :)

Eklin

07-22-2002, 09:23 PM

This is likely the BEST map that is in progress for JK2.
Those sand textures look ****ing amazing.

lo5t_h0pe

07-22-2002, 10:27 PM

the sand textures are good. the only thing i say you might want to do is cut down on the orange-ness of it. the screenshot you have of the arena without seats is about the right color, i think, but that might just me. might also be the lighting color. either way, seems a bit orange and fake to me. that's all.

Wes Marrakesh

07-22-2002, 11:09 PM

hey, NICE LEVEL! Keep up the good work!:cool:
I better start looking at this thread more :rolleyes:
:mob: *gets attacked by everyone reading this becasue he hasn't been following it*:hit::axe1:

:xp: <== me

ok :lol: nm

DaJo Kesea

07-23-2002, 12:19 AM

:::In his best Yoda voice:::
Mmmm! Attracting new visitors, I am! Hmm?

Welcome, all. Thanks for your input. However, the lighting is what is casting the orange glow throughout the screenshots already posted. I'll tackle this soon, but I don't think I can get the JKII map as realistically hazy and golden as I could in Bryce. We'll just have to see. Remember, though, that in the movie, the late afternoon sun over Geonosia did make the rocks appear reddish in color, and the sand a moderate peach. You can see this best in the scene where Anakin, Padme, and Obi-Wan are all on the back of the Reek, surrounded by Droidekas. I think that the Geonosian rocks are colored the same as some of the sandstone in Utah. (I've been doing a lot of color matching recently in photoshop, using actual movie photos as my reference points. I think you'll be happy with the accuracy.)

I have moved out onto the arena floor now. The entry point room has been duplicated nine times (slows down the editor a bit, but not too much), and I have placed these rooms in an oval, exits facing inward. I'll connect these rooms with concave bevels to form the ground walls. It will be a challenge, but one that will not be too hard to overcome. My only question is, what do I do if the frame rate in game is really choppy?

Please stay tuned.

winner_rex

07-23-2002, 12:32 AM

remember, the editor gets slow 10x more easily than the game does. If it does get choppy, put doors on the entry points with areaportals and cheat a little here and there...

2 new ideas:
A cushion brush placed on the floor of the arena will block fall damage...you could use that if you want.

Also, what about an animated shader of faraway geonosian crowds?

BTW, it's Geonosis:D

lo5t_h0pe

07-23-2002, 01:12 AM

probably just missed the s, but the name does look funny. kind of like canadia. . .anyway. i thought the light might be making the funny coloring, but that's no prob and is something to be fixed after the level is betaed and such ans seen what other people think of it in action. as for the FPS. . .in editor, rex is right and that's never a good way to tell. in game, that's a different story. from what i've read, caulking will help if you haven't already, and patches will KILL any FPS that you thought you wanted. i'm not sure if you've been using those, but if ingame is dead and those are present heavily, that is probably your problem right there. like there is a new MP level out now called icecave, and it's interesting enough, but the tunnels are curvey patches, and if you stare down one of the tunnels and try to look around, the thing skips like no other. kind of sucks. that's about all i can tell you, because i don't know that much about it. just this and that. anyway, other than that, keep up the good work. i look forward to seeing the arena floor in action.

inbredyokel

07-23-2002, 09:00 PM

Just out of curiosity, did you include any kind of back doors to the rooms surrounding the arena? I don't know if they were actually shown anywhere in the movie, but I'd presume that there was another back entrance to bring people into each room. It would kind be anti-climatic if people sentenced to be executed were led into the main arena in front of everyone, brought to their respective rooms, and then brought out again to actually be executed :)

lo5t_h0pe

07-23-2002, 09:16 PM

i believe he said that he was working on a connecting hallway in the back. i could be wrong, but i think i remember something to that effect.

DaJo Kesea

07-24-2002, 01:02 AM

Hi again.

Thanks for all of your input. Area Portal might be a good idea if this stupid thing keeps deleting my textures and duplicating my brushes when I move rooms around after free rotate. Grr... I have to replace all the rooms except the master because of walls falling apart. What a mess, and a setback. But I'll fix it.

Is it possible to line up all the different rooms on the grid, and use area portal to jump back and forth between these rooms and the arena floor, WHILE still having the arena floor visible through the portal in the correct orientation?

There will be a back hallway on the ground level. I haven't showed you my latest work as of yet, but I created another door, much smaller, on the opposite side of the entry point room. I'll have the "execution" hallway connect to those.

The majority of this map is made of patches. I'm being cautious of how many I'm actually placing in full view, though, and also how long my tunnels are. Can't talk too much about framerate right now, though. I have to get to a point where I can seal everything up for testing.

I'll be in touch.

lo5t_h0pe

07-24-2002, 03:34 AM

sounds good. again, watch the patches. they have the ability to kill a good map. which is really sad, because they look the best.

also, as far as when you release this, i would be willing to beta test for you. my system can handle quite a bit. it's not high end, but i've got the "setup" to where i can do anything at good FPS (except 3dstudiomax rendering. that will make any computer look old, dumb, and impotent, though. . .). so if you want someone that will look at the details of it and give you tips and compliments on anything and everything objectively, i am your man. buddy me and PM me when you get to that point. i know it will take time, so no rush. just. . .when you get there, look me up. i'll help you on that front.

t3rr0r

07-24-2002, 07:34 AM

i had an idea about "pillars" (those huge odd-shaped supports), etc... maybe you could model the "pillars" and other things. it could be less of a stress on fps, and easier to give it an organic look.

DaJo Kesea

07-24-2002, 07:12 PM

Actually, I'm on a 500mHz machine (oldie by today's standards), and I still experience about 24fps in a room with 4 pillars consisting of 5 dense cylinders, and large wall patch meshes. Oh, that reminds me...I'm only going by sight and gameplay experience here when I mention FPS. How do I actually turn on the FPS indicator in game?

Looks like once I free-rotate the rooms, I have to leave them completely alone for them to keep their brushes in tact. Actually, I left most of the rooms alone, but when I moved one or two, all of them were suddenly destroyed. Not sure what happened! I will delete those rooms and reacreate them off the master. Just for purposes of sanity, I might keep the rooms as aligned to the grid as possible and just angle the doorways. Also, I might edit down the patches in the master room a bit as well. Lots of work to do yet! I'll keep you posted.

winner_rex

07-24-2002, 08:22 PM

i think it's cg_drawFPS 1
dont hold me to that...
I think the curves are not as bad as they are made out to be... Again, in a lot of cases they can be advantagious.

DaJo Kesea

07-26-2002, 12:07 AM

This post belongs several posts down. What the heck is going on???

Thanks for all your responses. Hmm... I can't remember how the Geonosian guards opened the doors for the arena beasts to come out...whether they were swung open or if they rose. I also can't remember what the gate texture looked like, so I'll give it my best guess. Maybe I'll just leave two large gates resting in their open position. It would realistically take a long time to open such large doors anyway, and that would slow down gameplay.

The only unfortunate thing I think I'm going to run into here is that due to the lack of doors and area portals (you can see through gate doors, remember), the game engine will have nothing to stop it from drawing every triangle in the map from the moment you set foot on the arena floor to the moment you exit the program, which may be very quickly if the frame rate is as affected as I think it just might be! Well, we'll just have to wait and see. I'm cutting back on patch density where density is not needed, so I'm hoping that will be enough. I'm not as optimistic as I once was, but I'm still trucking along.

DaJo Kesea

07-26-2002, 01:47 AM

Hi!

Wow! This room has lost its activity. I'm just posting to let you know that I have indeed been working on the map. I have been a little hesitant to promote the progress of the arena lately because of Radiant's inability to keep my rooms intact after I rotate them. I have now placed three master rooms off to the side, each completely aligned with the grid, and stable. Once I like how they look, I'll duplicate them and rotate the new ones into place, and leave them alone! I have learned from Rich that once you free-rotate a room, you can no longer touch that room (except to modify textures, hopefully?).

The tricky part will be connecting these rooms without accidentally dragging them around. Boy, I sure hope this works!

3 questions:

1. How do I cut holes in a curve/patch, much like the clipper tool cuts away parts of brushes?

2. How do I make a gate texture, transparent in some spots, and seemingly 3D?

3. How do I make a door swing out, as if it is on a hinge, as opposed to sliding up/down/left/right?

As always, thanks.

winner_rex

07-26-2002, 02:27 AM

1. I'm not so sure you can
2. Don't know
3. Can't

lo5t_h0pe

07-26-2002, 03:28 AM

on the doors, i have a suggestion: make a group of boxes spiked on the bottom that are a rising gate when put together instead of a swinging one. i think that would be the best way to do it, and you could get one of those neat sounds that they us in movies with castles where those kind of gates rise. there is actually a sound of just that in RtCW and it was the same effect, except not as large. just an idea. would probably actually come across better than swining anyway.

but on swinging. . .RtCW and Medal of Honor both have swining doors, and they're both Quake 3 games, so i would think that there should be some way to do it, whether it's in a different editor or not, i don't know. all i know is that the effects exists and exists quite prominently in other games.

Hanch Saode

07-26-2002, 07:11 AM

I think the lack of activity is due to the stuff going on on this board...the forums were quite messed up...

But now that everythins seems normal, I will return commenting, and cheering :D

Karshaddii

07-26-2002, 01:34 PM

YAY = )

winner_rex

07-26-2002, 01:41 PM

Swinging doors would require coding.
HOWEVER,
You can make a door with an origin texture on the side you want it to hinge on and make it a func_rotating, possibly...but it would be very goofy

Karshaddii

07-26-2002, 01:51 PM

No, actually it doesn't--I have tried it--spent my entire Saturday on it to get it to look right though--and in my opinion--it would be quicker to learn the ICARUS manual...

lo5t_h0pe

07-26-2002, 02:27 PM

hmm. that's too bad. since it's star wars and supposed to be all space doors rising and spreading, i guess it makes sense they wouldn't include it, but it would have been nice to have the same option as other quake games. oh well. then i guess you will HAVE to do rising doors. but like i said, i think they'd be cooler anyway.

Sounds Risky

07-27-2002, 11:03 PM

The gates rose, I'm positive about that. They looked rather crude too.

DaJo Kesea

07-27-2002, 11:27 PM

Not sure what is going on with the posts. My last post that belonged between Matt's and lo5t_h0pe's is actually a few above. I wish the people running the forum would figure out how to set the clock!

Still working. Thanks for all your info.

Quotation

07-28-2002, 12:01 AM

Hello all.

I often frequent the boards, though I haven't registered until recently.

DaJo, I didn't know you were a texture artsist for AOTCTC!

About ypur questions: You could enquire at Rich Diesal's web site. I'm not sure. But for clipping patches, press the X key! :D

Anyway, from what I've seen of the Arena thus far, it looks brilliant. Well done.

winner_rex

07-28-2002, 01:28 AM

Pressing x wont work on patches.
However with bobtoolz you can split the patch in two.

Quotation

07-28-2002, 01:32 AM

Ah. Sorry, didn't know.

lo5t_h0pe

07-29-2002, 10:51 AM

this speak of patches is making me a bit nervous. . .they're wonderful things if you need a curve here and there, but. . .

maybe i'm alone in this, but patches and smooth curves are FPS killers. they look beautiful, but there is a very good reason that Raven didn't use them very much in their levels. many of the places that should have been a curve were just a many sided -gon shape. maybe i'm completely wrong in this, but when you say patch, my thoughts stray to a couple maps i've seen that have patch tunnels, and the FPS suck REALLY bad if you look right down one of the tunnels.

that's just me, though, i guess.

winner_rex

07-29-2002, 05:54 PM

honestly I've never had that many problems with curves...
in some cases they can speed things up and they always look better generally...

Eklin

07-29-2002, 05:58 PM

They're fine on higher end machines, but what about the little guys, huh?

lo5t_h0pe

07-29-2002, 06:13 PM

that's what i'm thinking. i can run most of them fine. like rich's kamino duel runs fine, and that has many, but the new icecave one that was released a bit back isn't very friendly at all. the tunnels are all patches with beautiful curves and look very natural, but the system takes a hit bad. it's playable on mine, but not as pretty. now it is possible that rex has a different video card than i do. i have a geforce 3, and he may have a radeon. radeons handle things like that different. there are many possibilities, but in reality, if this map is going to be widely playable, the patches are going to have to be cut down to only when absolutely necessary, especially on a map of these massive proportions. it will be harder for the map to look right, but it's a sacrafice that will have to be made for the little guys. sorry. patches are pretty, but underneath the pretty skin, they're bitches and are out to destroy a perfectly good game experience. i would hate to see that happen to this map.

winner_rex

07-29-2002, 06:35 PM

I've got a geforce 3 too. That Ice Cave map was the author's first attempt at a map...It could be that he forgot to caulk

Eklin

07-29-2002, 06:48 PM

I sometimes even get low framerates on the Duel Kamino map.

I'm hopefully going to be trippling my RAM sometime soon, as well as getting a better sound card, so that should, IN THEORY, tripple my game speed *crosses fingers*

Patches look spectacular, but for a lot of what you're doing, you won't need them. It would look cool if you could make the sand groove upwards toward the arena walls, and a few hills here and there would be nice. Just don't overdo it.

Hanch Saode

07-29-2002, 07:24 PM

Yeah, that would be cool..

If you could make the looks of the sand texture look more random...not only from above and down, but also from a more horizontal view...with bumps and etc.

That would add a great deal !

RichDiesal

07-30-2002, 10:23 PM

Just for all of your information, a curve will end up being faster to render than a highly clipped/many surfaced brush designed to create the same look. Plus the lighting looks oh so much smoother. In duel_kamino, those columns were originally sets of 16-sided polygons. When I converted them to all curves, each column increased the tri count by about 500.

If you can avoid curved surfaces altogether, that's best. But if you hafta choose between actual patches and faking it with brushes, go ahead and use patches.

DaJo Kesea

07-30-2002, 10:56 PM

Hi everyone!

Due to having a wonderful birthday and a few computer issues, I have been AWOL for a few days. (I know what AWOL means, but what does it stand for? LOL)

For my bday, I got a copy of Flight Simulator 2002. Talk about a LARGE number of triangles to draw! From up in the plane you can see for miles, and FS2002 generates random 3D structures on the ground as well. But in talking to some tech support people, I have found out some interesting information that might benefit anyone who has an older configuration such as mine:

550 mHz
384 MB of RAM
64 MB GeForce Accelerator card

If you are experiencing slowdown in Jedi Outcast or other 3D games, check this: Make sure your AGP or PCI video card and your sound card have at least one space between them inside your chasis. Next, be sure to get the updated drivers for your video card and DirectX.
Last but not least, right click on the My Computer icon and choose Properties. Go to the Device Manager and click on the View menu. You want to show hidden devices, and you want to be in "Resources by connection" mode. Click the [+] next to Interrupt Request (IRQ).

Look at the number next to the device. That's the IRQ port number. Are two or more of your devices sharing the same IRQ port? For example, your sound card and your video card? This really slows down frame rate! It was described to me as being like a football team all trying to go after the same ball at once, even if it was in another teammate's hands. All my PCI cards are running off of port 9, and that contributes to some of my problems. You need to talk to a support technician for your computer if this is the case. Tinkering with the driver setup for your computer could cause your hard drive to crash or worse, so be careful, but this is something you need to change if you can.

Have no fear. I'm still working on the Geonosian Arena. Talk to you soon!

winner_rex

07-30-2002, 11:53 PM

Absent WithOut Leave :)
army term

lo5t_h0pe

07-31-2002, 01:47 AM

thanks dajo, and thanks rich. good help from both sides, even though on different topics somewhat. i didn't know that about patches and brushes. good to know. all i knew was that levels i play with many curves (aka patches) kill things pretty bad, but i did not know that a polygon would run worse. interesting. thanks. i wasn't completely wrong, but i apologize for the wrongness that i did have.

pakmannen

07-31-2002, 05:05 AM

hm, my videocard and the soundcard has the same irc number (11), but i can't seem to change it? or is this possible?

DaJo Kesea

07-31-2002, 09:55 PM

Two words for anyone who wants to reassign IRQ ports:

BACK UP.

Back up your important data before you play around with the settings.

I thought this IRQ stuff was just a DELL thing, but it's actually a Windows thing. In order to change the IRQ assignments, you have to change your system driver from ACPI (?) to Standard PC. This can be done in the device manager, but I'm giving limited info because I have limited knowledge. You REALLY should talk to a support technician, or a computer professional if you aren't one. I will be getting some instruction on Saturday from a friend I know who is a big computer whiz.

If you successfully change your IRQ settings without harming your system, you should notice less choppiness in games, and better performance in other processor intensive work.

The arena is coming along okay. After free rotation of entire rooms, some patches get misaligned, revealing the caulking from behind. This can easily be fixed by altering the troublesome patches in vertex mode. I just have to watch out for the sudden "brush with no normals" error. I have found that the best way to prevent problems is to not let that error go unattended, and use bobToolz every now and then.

There probably won't be any updates for a while because I'm building stuff right now that HAS to be out in the open. But you can count on an update as soon as I get to a point where I can seal something up! Thanks for all your input and help. It says on Rich's tutorial site that "once you start something, finish it!" I plan to do just that.

Hanch Saode

08-01-2002, 06:49 AM

Sounds good....keep it up..we're still waiting, and reading :)

Looking forward for the next update!

K.O

08-01-2002, 07:05 AM

Wow.. I was going to start out with making this map like you. Not knowing much about Gtk and all. Thank god someone's doing it. :D I've seen 2 other Arena maps, one was big enough but not accurate enough. The other was kinda ugly, lol. This looks like it's coming along well, very well. I'll give any support I can. May the force be with your mapping skills. ;D

Karshaddii

08-01-2002, 02:33 PM

Any new screenies?
:D

K.O

08-03-2002, 04:55 AM

Keep that funk alive! uNF.

DaJo Kesea

08-03-2002, 11:41 PM

No new screenies yet, but I'm pretty sure once I get through the tremedously slow process of carefully rotating the human rooms and beast rooms into place, and I can seal up the ground level, you will be pleased with what I have to show you!

Unfortunately, work and school are kind of top priority at this time. BUT, I continue to devote time each evening to the construction of the arena, and I assure you I'm taking my time to do it right. I was considering leaving a bunch of barely visible cracks created by the free rotation, but I noticed that they were getting a little larger in the corners, so I just slapped my mouse down on the mat and went to work in vertex mode. Now guess what?? The main entrance room and tunnel to the arena floor is COMPLETE, and rock solid. No cracks! I'll continue with each of the nine or more other rooms, and also work on a gate texture for the three beast rooms at the far end of the arena. Once the rooms are in place and Gtk Radiant seems stable, I will fill in the ground level walls and add my killer rock texture I'm sure you'll love (since it was sampled part from the movie, and part from real rock), and put up the pillars. The next screenshots will hopefully be of the arena floor at a good framerate.

Thank you all for your encouragement and patience in this process! I look at some of the other threads on this forum and I have to wonder about some of the people in this community. Obviously all of you are sane, mature individuals, and I thank you for your kindness and support!!! You're making this work!

Signing off for now.

inbredyokel

08-04-2002, 12:44 AM

Good to know things are going....good, and you think we're mature, too! Well, I guess all things are relative...

Hanch Saode

08-04-2002, 05:57 AM

That is sounding so cool m8! Of course you have to concentrate mostly on school and stuff...so am I from tomorrow, since I start on....dunno what it's called in other countries...but I am 16 (nearing 17, about 1½ month) and I'm starting at a whole new school...so I understand the whole fuzz about that...

But it sounds really good anyways!! An keep it up :D

K.O

08-05-2002, 06:52 AM

Lol, stay alive man, stay alive! :D

Grafox

08-10-2002, 05:38 AM

Looking forward to this map man!!

DaJo Kesea

08-12-2002, 02:00 PM

I'm glad you guys haven't been hounding me about my lack of updates and what not. I am still working on it, but with my current schedule, I can only devote about 45 minutes to an hour each night. I have a day off tomorrow, so let me see what I can accomplish. An update, maybe? We'll see!

I just hope I get this project complete before people don't like Jedi Outcast any more! :D

lo5t_h0pe

08-12-2002, 07:56 PM

don't worry. until a jedi game comes out that is based on the doom III engine, i don't think any of us are going to stop liking it. slicing baddies in half is far too much fun, not to mention pushing/dropping them off ledges, hurling lightning at them, blasting them to cinder and ash. . . now if only there were a way to impale them on spikes. there's a mod idea for someone with a twisted mind that leans towards the violent and gross. i'd download it.

DaJo Kesea

08-14-2002, 03:09 AM

Hi again.

The next major update is just about on it's way. All that is remaining to do on the ground level is texture the beast rooms and move them into place, followed by the creation of the surrounding walls. I sure hope the frame rate stays okay as I start building upward! But for the next update, which I am sure will get this room buzzing again, I'll just seal up the ground level with a sky roof and let you take a look at some screens of the battle ground and surrounding rooms.

Please note: My computer is fairly fast. If my computer keels over and dies during the testing of this early part of the project, there is no use trying to build this map for Jedi Outcast. I doubt that I'll have any less than 20 fps with 5 bots on the main arena floor, but if I am horribly wrong ( 1 fps and smoke coming out of the computer kind of wrong), I may have to close up shop. With my crazy schedule, I don't have time to go back to the drawing board. The editor is running very smoothly, though, and I trust those who have said that the editor will slow down before the game does. So, I don't think there will be anything to worry about.

pakmannen

08-14-2002, 03:44 AM

great! :D

K.O

08-14-2002, 10:37 PM

Cool, hopefully nothing like that happens. :) Really... What are the chances of your computer blowing up? o_O (Jinx)

DaJo Kesea

08-16-2002, 01:37 AM

Still not quite ready for that major update, but a teaser is available. Go to www24.brinkster.com/jnday (http://www24.brinkster.com/jnday).

My computer better not blow up! It'll be brand new! :D I'll be moving this project to another computer at the end of this month, so I will eventually need beta testers with oldie machines like the one I'm getting rid of. My new computer will be 2.2 Gig, leaving my old 550mHz machine in the dust.

You'll hear from me again soon.

L3onheart

08-16-2002, 05:50 AM

So does that mean that my XP 1800+ with a GF4 Ti 4600 can't apply as a beta tester? :)

BTW, your work is being showcased on my site :)

Master Toddy

08-17-2002, 02:02 AM

The screenshots look great. Will this map include bot/singleplayer rotues and music?

K.O

08-17-2002, 06:24 AM

Well I got a 1 GHz AMD Athlon... You need lower?
And those screens look superb! :D Nice work.

Hanch Saode

08-17-2002, 09:28 AM

Yeah looks really great! But as the other guy asked, what about background music?

keo718

08-17-2002, 09:46 AM

That site is not working for me....

Hanch Saode

08-17-2002, 01:03 PM

It is for me...sure your internet preferences are as they should be?

buckman

08-17-2002, 01:25 PM

i have a 733mhz, 640mb RAM, GeForce4 Ti 4200

my suggestion for backgroundmusicwould be either john_williams-love_pledge_and_the_arena wich is a soundtrack that beginns when padme tells anakin the she loves him, and continues till Dokuu does his speechthingy, although the .mp3 is 11mb :(. Another good track is john_williams-confrontation_with_count_dooku_and_finale, and as the title reveals, this soundtrack starts when anakin and obi-one goes after dooku.

Both tracks are pending between calm classical music, and 'action'music so they will both do well i think :) the map looks great btw...

DaJo Kesea

08-17-2002, 11:53 PM

Hi everyone!

Before I get to the main topic, I just want to address some of your questions. Folks with powerful computers are still welcome to test the map when it's ready, but those of you with the Pentium 733s and slower, and even folks with dreaded laptop ATI cards, please step forward.

If many of you start to hit the web site, it might resist a little. I'm not sure Brinkster is capable of handling a lot of hits. Best time to sign on is late at night. Nothing new right now though.

What a coincidence that all of you are starting to ask about music! That just happens to be my topic for this evening. A talented MP3 artist, who goes by the handle "Fatboy Roberts," has contacted me regarding the addition of some exciting music for the Geonosian Arena. I fell completely in love with his first sample, and I gave him some suggestions on tweaking it to add a little more musical color. He has produced a track that I am going to roll with (maybe a few more tweaks later, but awesome for now). It starts with the battle droid fanfare and theme, rolls nicely into the love theme, transitions out to a little of the Force theme (Ep. II variation of Throne Room), and then finishes with some heart-pounding action music from the last half hour of Episode II. The track is very high quality, and takes up about 7MB.

Kudos, Fatboy! Poke your head in sometime and say hello. Give him applause, folks. I'm a musician and somewhat of a recording artist myself, and he has sure done an awesome job (not to mention saving me some work)!

:::Sigh::: Well, with such an awesome soundtrack, I guess I just HAVE to finish this map! I'll get back to work.

Wes Marrakesh

08-18-2002, 12:09 AM

*yawn* I'm still here!:D :lol:
i'm still looking forward to this map. I want to hear that music too!:rolleyes:

Fatboy Roberts

08-18-2002, 02:23 AM

aww, why the rolleyes?

Thanks for the props. Hopefully ya'll dig it. I might have to tweak a little more (it IS his map ;) ) but trust me, it's something you can most definitely get used having play in the background while you cut people up ;) If you want, I can also drop it from 192 down to 128, that should save you some space..I COULD cut it down to 96 even, I think I can compress it so the sound quality doesn't lack..

Anyway, I just wanted to mention that I completed the center part of the walls all around the arena floor. The good news is that it looks great! The bad news is that it is more patches. I have a feeling the majority of this map will be made of patches, and that I might fry anybody running a computer under 550mHz. The game slowed down for me when I was in the open areas on Artus and Bespin, but not too much so. It shouldn't be any worse than that.

A neat trick I discovered is that you can make a crooked, disfigured pillar by moving around a cylinder's vertices. Fun stuff! Just wait till you all see the tower I will construct with this method.

Quotation, it's an honor to be posted on JediKnightII.net, though I'm not sure I have much to show yet. But thanks!

Make sure you all grab some cool models to play with in this arena. Anakin, Clone Troopers, and some awesome Battle Droids are all floating around out there somewhere. And Klorel's Mace Windu is one I'm really waiting for!

Hanch Saode

08-18-2002, 05:27 AM

Damn you DaJo :D You make me so eager!

About the sound part. It sounds VERY promising, and I will be looking VERY much forward to hear it out!

And seems like you are doing well in progressing with the map, so I can only say, that I wish best of luck completing :D

pakmannen

08-18-2002, 05:29 AM

keep it in 44100Hz

wont work in the game otherwise.

K.O

08-19-2002, 05:46 AM

Oh hell yeah! :D Music almost makes the map in a way! :D This is gonna be cool as hell, 'specially when Klorel's Windu comes out.

DaJo Kesea

08-21-2002, 01:03 AM

Hey now, Hell isn't cool! :)

Just letting everyone know I haven't fallen off the face of the earth. When you have as many design files as I have, and as much junk as I have both on and off the computer (physical, tangible junk you never knew you owned, you know?), the move to a new computer can be quite a long, drawn out endeavor. I'm in the process of getting stuff off my old computer and onto CD-Rs and ZIP disks for transfer. Yes, a network connection would be handy.

After I get all I need transferred over, I'll reformat the hard drive in the old computer, reinstall Win2K, and sell the sucker. I just hope Gtk Radiant works on Windows XP!

All for now.

keo718

08-21-2002, 02:44 PM

Hey now, Hell isn't cool!

Lol, I was thinking the same.

I just hope Gtk Radiant works on Windows XP!

Im not a mapper but when I tried it, it worked. I have XP Professional.

when Klorel's Windu comes out

That's more an "if" at this point.

Quotation

08-25-2002, 02:36 AM

Not exceedingly optimistic, are you? :)

keo718

08-25-2002, 09:12 AM

Not exceedingly optimistic, are you?

I don't put hope in people. Besides alot of projects get abandoned around here.

Andy867

08-25-2002, 03:58 PM

Hey, can't wait to see the major update, and as I noticed, my little word out to the public made on www.jediknightii.net made it back to where the map began(this thread).

Also, I have an AMD DURON 800 MHZ with 128 MB RAM and a voodoo3, so I can do a graphical read out on how much of a strain it will put on video cards, because my other rig is an AMD ATHLON 900 (overclocked (again) to 972, with 640 MB RAM PC133, GeForce4 Ti4200(well, soon anyways) and the ATI RADEON 7200 is going in the 800. soon I hope to upgrade the processor and RAM to past the 2ghz point and past 1gb of DDR RAM, but being jobless kind of puts that stuff on hold. but I will beta test it on the 800 and 900 for comparison for ya.

and so when you get to assigning beta testers, Dajo, I nominate myself as a potential tester. which would be useful because then I can do a review and in the same notion, make the review on www.jediknightii.net, so even MORE people will notice your recreation of the Geonosian Arena.. Anakin skywalker, Mace Windu and Obi-Wan vs 13 Battle droids... Schweet:) that should test out a pc pretty well ;) so, if you want, and possibly could, add me to the list of beta testers for when its come time, I can help get the word out for those who may not have seen my news post on the JKII.net site

Well, as Chris Kataan said in Night at the Roxbury.. LATER MUCH!

Quotation

08-25-2002, 11:45 PM

Originally posted by keo718

I don't put hope in people. Besides alot of projects get abandoned around here.

Fair enough. :D

Darth2Tyranus

08-26-2002, 12:29 PM

any updates?
this map will rule!! :D

:lsduel:

Fatboy Roberts

08-26-2002, 11:37 PM

I'm a little anxious myself, but he did say he's in the process of transferring all his files and such from one new computer to another, that might take time.

But I DO want to get down on this duel map, most definitely.

...

.....and no, me doing the music has nothing to do with it ;)
Fatboy

Quotation

08-29-2002, 01:23 AM

Where is everyone? :horn:

Oh, implied... *Bump* :D

DaJo Kesea

08-29-2002, 03:14 AM

Ok, I'm finally back in business. Well, sort of. Radiant is acting very wierd on XP. It won't let me turn off "Snap to Grid," it doesn't display all the textures correctly (I'll go into more detail about that), and it's running slow! 2.2 gig machine with a GeForce 4 MX, and it's slow??? It was actually faster on my old computer, but I've had some trouble with this graphics board in other things, like Flight Simulator. Maybe nVidia made a bad card?

Ok, here's the deal with the strange looking textures. Most of the textures appear as they should. The rock textures are fine, and so are a few others. But all of the textures that came with Jedi Outcast, along with a couple of my jpgs, look like they have been taken into Photoshop and posterized. Everyone familiar with that effect? It removes a lot of detail by reducing the number of colors in the image, giving a very stepped look. The good news is that I have been playing JKII again, and everything Raven supplied appears fine in the game. So maybe the editor is just being a pain in the rear.

As far as construction goes, I am making the ledges above the arena walls, along with the ones that line the floor. It took me a long time to do one because nothing would work right. Well, nothing until I chose my last resort, the thickened bevel, which is a processor hog, but serves a good purpose.

If anyone can offer suggestions for correcting my problems, especially the snap to grid issue, I'd sure appreciate it! And don't worry. I have no intention of abandoning this project. It might take me into December or so, because I absolutely must concentrate on school projects and my job, but it will get done. Just hang in there, and don't get bored slicing people up in JKII. :D

All for now.

lo5t_h0pe

08-29-2002, 12:33 PM

geforce 4 MX. . .eeeeew. . .it's not a bad card as in it won't run anything, but it is in the sense that it isn't a real geforce 4. it's actually basically just a slightly beefy geforce 2. even a geforce 3 is better, even though the number is smaller. the main reason is that the 4 MX (as well as 2) didn't have all the hardware devices and pipelines and such, which is why the 4 MX can't do direct X 8 (as possibly used by flight simulator, depending on how new your version is), let alone 9 for when doom III comes out. so, for the future, it is a bad card and actually can only do stuff about half of what a real geforce 4 can do, but on the other hand, it's a value card, so if someone wanted a card to run basic games well, it would be fine.

with all your patches in this level, i am imagining that, even with XP, you are going to notice bad things in game with that MX. i am almost guessing that this level is going to have a minimum requirement of 850 mhz processor w/ at least a high end geforce 3 or radeon 8500. not good news, but one must face it with a map this large, this "in view", and this complex.

keo718

08-29-2002, 02:21 PM

geforce 4 MX. . .eeeeew. . .it's not a bad card as in it won't run anything, but it is in the sense that it isn't a real geforce 4. it's actually basically just a slightly beefy geforce 2. even a geforce 3 is better, even though the number is smaller.

Exactly.

DaJo Kesea

08-30-2002, 01:50 AM

Concerning my GeForce 4 MX card...

That's good info to know. Too bad I didn't ask around before I bought my new computer. However, this card does support DirectX 8 and all its fancy features. You just have to give it a little push now and then. For instance, when you load FS2002, the reflections and details won't show up initially in the water or on the sides of the planes. But if you enter the actual game, go to the Select Aircraft screen, Alt Tab to the desktop, and then Alt Tab back to the game, the graphics are reset, and the card displays all the special effects beautifully.

Eventually I'll get a better graphics card, but I need my money to build up now. The new computer rocked my savings account a bit. I'll do the best I can at optimizing this level for low-end computers, but I don't know how successful I'll be. If it's absolutely a mess on my 2.2 Gig processor, well.... we'll see.

-Josh

Grafox

09-07-2002, 07:38 AM

Any updates on the map?

Sam

09-09-2002, 02:04 AM

Yes bring on the updates

Padawan_7

09-09-2002, 07:16 PM

Just an idea...

How about putting some of that music that was played at the end of the Ep. II trailer "Clone War" somewhere in this cool selection of music you have ready for this map.

The music played at the end of the trailer is an edited version of the last section of "Forest Battle" from ROTJ. This last section never actual made it into the ROTJ film, so I think it would be nice to here some of it in this map.

:D :D :D

Padawan_7

DarkLord60

09-10-2002, 09:49 PM

Hey I have
PIII 850mhz 100mhz FSB
10x DVD
10GB hardrive
384mb sdram
XP professional
xtasy Geforce 4 420mx PCI (SUX because I only have PCI cause I bought comp from BEST BUY, I was using ATI radeon 7000 64ddr but that sucked big time!) My averrage framerate in JO is now 40fps

So anyway I guess I am screwed when it comes time to play this level! :(
I like what I see though:)

Fatboy Roberts

09-10-2002, 11:58 PM

I ALMOST edited that forest battle stuff in there--but I thought there was a better piece from the Episode II soundtrack to choose from (also used in the tv commercials, the "Conveyor Belt" track) and so I put that in there instead.

But the concert arrangement of the Forest Battle IS great stuff. Maybe someone will make an endor map and I'll pimp myself out to hook up the music for them ;)

That way I can give different perspectives of how the map will run on different machines. So, just let me know if you want me to beta test it.

DarkLord60

09-18-2002, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by DarkLord60
Hey I have
PIII 850mhz 100mhz FSB
10x DVD
10GB hardrive
384mb sdram
XP professional
xtasy Geforce 4 420mx PCI (SUX because I only have PCI cause I bought comp from BEST BUY, I was using ATI radeon 7000 64ddr but that sucked big time!) My averrage framerate in JO is now 40fps

So anyway I guess I am screwed when it comes time to play this level! :(
I like what I see though:)

Well change that Now I am building new comp using parts from old and ordering new parts it going to be:
P4 1.8Ghz 400Mhz FSB
10x DVD
10 Gb Harddrive 5200 rpm (I don't have enough left to buy new hardrive)
256mb DDRAM PC2100
XP Professional
Xtasy Geforce 4 420 MX PCI (I didn't know I was going to build new comp and I just bought this video card a month ago, so I am going to wait tell I get about 300 bucks then I am going to get Geforce 4 TI 4600 AGP!!! Finally AGP yes!

Yay I am back in business!

Andy867

09-18-2002, 11:17 PM

You know Darklord, you can get a GeForce4 Ti4600 from www.pricewatch.com from roughly $200-$250 and minimal s/h fees. most of my computer was delivered from pricewatch.com, saved myself about $1k worth... Something to consider.

Toonces

09-18-2002, 11:38 PM

Good for you DarkLord, I would never ever order a computer from a Dell, or a Gateway, or anybody similar, you never know what's gonna show up at your door.

I always build my own systems, and I even build them for my friends, that's how I got started in the computer buisness.

If you cant do it yourself, your 100x better off going down to your local mom and pop computer store and have them build it for you. You'll save alot of money, get exactly what you want, and have people who will actually remember you when you come in with your box for upgrades, repairs, ect.

DarkLord60

09-19-2002, 08:31 PM

I am Computer technician so I really doubt that would be a prob. Thanks anyway!:) Andy867 I know but my prob is I dont have a penny more I could put into this computer
:(

Originally posted by winner_rex
Stick a fork in it. The community is done.
hah... no.

Quotation

10-03-2002, 12:25 AM

Bump.

The Truthful Liar

10-03-2002, 05:48 AM

Hmm... any word on wether the creator is alive or not?

buckman

10-03-2002, 10:00 AM

He hasn't updated his site for like 2 months.....

keo718

10-03-2002, 04:01 PM

Yeah, you hate to see this happen. Chances are it is related to his new computer, and the difficulties he expressed while creating this map using that hardware - at least thats what I'd like to believe. He certainly seemed dedicated to the project.

Quotation

10-14-2002, 03:01 AM

...Bump

keo718

10-19-2002, 11:20 PM

I guess this map is dead then huh....

__CKY__

10-21-2002, 11:46 PM

:( it was a good map too

DaJo Kesea

01-22-2003, 12:34 AM

You look like you all have seen a ghost!

Yes, it's really me. I didn't die in a plane crash or get smothered in a winter storm. I just have been smothered with work, projects, job-related stuff, more projects, school, events, gatherings, meetings, more work, more school work, etc. It's been a heck of a long time since I've even touched Radiant, or seen this forum. But the one thing I have always loved about you guys compared to the others that populate the modelling forums and what not is that you are all civilized. I didn't see any comments like "You #@!%$^^&! Where's that map you promised?!" And I thank you!

Well, there's a light at the end of the tunnel for me. I graduate college in March, and I'm almost done this mammoth colorization project for my side job. This will free up my schedule tenfold! So, maybe...just maybe, if there's still a big interest in JKII, I'll come back to map-making for you all. :) Is Jedi Knight 2 still a game that many of you love?

I really have not yet made a name for myself, so I might put the Arena on the side for now and do something like a spectacular Coruscant map to get my skills in shape. I'm still having lots of trouble keeping the size of the maps on the low side (optimizing my work), and building circular things. But I'll keep at it. Maybe soon there will be a better version of the map-building software that allows cutting up cylindrical objects. Boy would that be helpful! For the arena, I need an inner wall ith entryways, but the whole darn map is circular, which causes lots of problems. Don't worry. Either by me or someone else, the Geonosian Arena will eventually be made correctly, in good detail.

Fatboy Roberts, your music kicks butt! I loaded Toonces' and Arco's Mace Windu into the Bespin level (excellent job on that model guys, but speaking as he dies is kind of odd), and then I loaded up that fight music track you gave me. Excellent stuff to fight with! As the music suddenly changes to the Anakin & Padme theme, you really feel like turning on red stance and heavily sparring with your opponent. Much fun! Great job mixing.

You still may not see me for a while, but I will be back in one way or another. Happy sabering!

Grets Sirob

01-22-2003, 03:55 PM

Hey!
It's great to see you back!

Don't worry, JKII isn't dead yet, there's still some interest.
There's a new version of gtk out, so you may want to check that out, but it still doens't have the ability to cut patch meshes.

I hope you get this done eventually, I know what it's like to have a map that you haven't finished yet, it gets very annoying and weighs you down if you think about it too much.

Good luck with the Arena! Happy Mapping!

Shadyz

01-22-2003, 06:19 PM

Hey Dajo! Ive been a fan of your arena wip so mch that i built and released my little mod but now im building it accurately for aotctc. Welcome back. :D

DaJo Kesea

01-22-2003, 10:02 PM

Thanks for the encouraging words, Grets. Yes, the Geonosis map was exciting to build at times, but also incredibly frustrating when I can't play against 8 bots without a significant loss of frame rate. And I'm on a 2.4 GHz computer with some really suped up equipment! I still would like to give something cool to the folks with 200MHz computers, you know?! I'll keep at it.

Shadyz, where do you have your work on display? I'd love to see it. Maybe we can share ideas/textures and what not at some point when I have a break.

Later!

Shadyz

01-23-2003, 12:50 AM

Hey Dajo i dont have a site up for it bt if we could contact each other that would be great i got some questions and what-not to ask. here is my info:

Msn messenger: tmshadyz@hotmail.com
aol: shadyz02

let me know ur info so i can add you to buddylist. thanks.

DaJo Kesea

01-25-2003, 01:44 AM

For Shadyz and anyone who wants to contact me privately with helpful ideas and what not, here's my contact info:

jnday@prodigy.net

Best to contact me via email. I don't use the messenger services that much. Thanks.