eRe4s3r wrote on Jun 8, 2011, 04:44:True enough, except you are supposed and required to use the AD keys for camera adjustments throughout the game. If AD was used to strafe or dodge, or rotate, then that'd be fine. But camera controls, on AD ?

So the problem isn't that the bearing is done via mouse, the problem is that WS is forward/backward, but AD rotates the camera without the character. Even on a x360 controller that makes no sense.

But A/D in a way do rotate the character, because whenever you press W, the character moves in the direction of the camera instantly. There aren't even any animation frames between that change of direction when moving from a stand-still position.. It's just a sudden movement. So while walking, the A/D keys rotate the direction of player, and when standing still they effectively do the same, because once you start moving it is in the new direction.

The combat is controlled anyway by mouse clicks, regardless of the character bearing.

As much as you and others might want to whine about it, making a PC game that needs or should be played with a controller is just fine. If you are stubborn and will never buy a controller then don't buy the game, problem solved.

Not really, no. I can't believe you of all people are trumpeting this stupid nonsense, did you fall and hit your head on something? You know better than this. There is nothing about this specific game or this type of gameplay that should require a controller. You talk about customization but act as if people should just use one thing because you did or X dev didn't feel like doing something, it's hypocrisy. You say other people are whining but all I see is you bleating about other people. They are making very legitimate and reasonable posts with concerns about standardized input issues amongst other things.

Saying "oh they will probably patch it in later" doesn't exactly fill people with confidence after being burned by previous console lead titles like Transformers where it was never patched in. Can you point to developer discussion where they have indicated that it will be patched in? At least that game had the decency to use a somewhat standardized control schema. As for "dont buy it", the answer to that is "DUH", that's the point of the demo after all - evaluating the game to make a purchase decision.

Dades wrote on Jun 8, 2011, 06:46:You keep trying to sidestep the issue to avoid admitting you're wrong. There is no reason this game would be offered on the PC while ignoring the majority of its installed customer base short of laziness from the developer or publisher.

There is no technical or creative reason this game needed to have such poor controls and refuse to let the user rebind keys, none. We are talking pretty simple programming to write entries to a configuration file, I mean it's literally babies first VB class stuff. The problems with the control scheme and interface have nothing to do with its genre, that's a straw man you keep bringing up.

They will almost surely patch-in customized keybinds before or shortly after launch. I guess there's a chance they won't, but I doubt it.

In any event, as someone said below the PC has no standard controls. No, a controller and joystick do not come with a new PC, but neither do monitors or gaming mice or headphones or microphones or games themselves. The awesome part of PC gaming is customizing and the adaptability of the platform. Street Fighter on PC might be near impossible with a keyboard but thank God it's on PC because it looks amazing, runs amazing and the PC has a wealth of controller options.

As much as you and others might want to whine about it, making a PC game that needs or should be played with a controller is just fine. If you are stubborn and will never buy a controller then don't buy the game, problem solved.

don't know in how many ways I can answer your claim of 'a game must support most common system effectively, otherwise the developers messed up'. I am just glad that some game developers over the years have largely ignored this idiotic notion, and we have had games that had exclusive/effective PC requirements that weren't the most common at the time (VGA, math coprocessor, 3D cards, hard-disk, mouse, controllers, RAM EMS/XMS, sound cards, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM etc)

You keep trying to sidestep the issue to avoid admitting you're wrong. There is no reason this game would be offered on the PC while ignoring the majority of its installed customer base short of laziness from the developer or publisher.

There is no technical or creative reason this game needed to have such poor controls and refuse to let the user rebind keys, none. We are talking pretty simple programming to write entries to a configuration file, I mean it's literally babies first VB class stuff. The problems with the control scheme and interface have nothing to do with its genre, that's a straw man you keep bringing up.

True enough, except you are supposed and required to use the AD keys for camera adjustments throughout the game. If AD was used to strafe or dodge, or rotate, then that'd be fine. But camera controls, on AD ?

So the problem isn't that the bearing is done via mouse, the problem is that WS is forward/backward, but AD rotates the camera without the character. Even on a x360 controller that makes no sense.

Having tried the demo with mouse/keyboard controls, I am not bothered at all by the movement interface. Mouse alone works fine, and WASD also works fine. It doesn't matter if the character doesn't rotate with A/D key, since he changes direction instantly when you press forward key.

There are several disappointing things about the interface though

* No tool tips* No way to label objects on the ground.* No way to collect objects until you are standing right next to them* Combat requires repeated and continuous clicks* Too many interface screens* Too much of a zoomed in perspective

As far as use of mouse in movement, combat and menu/dialog selection is concerned, it's all there and work like most other action/RPGs. I just wish they hadn't tried to be too clever in separating out movement and combat clicks (right and left respectively). Titan Quest and Diablo 2 both worked great by keeping left click as the primary interaction (with the game deciding what to do depending on whether you clicked on scenery object or an enemy) Of course the two games also had locked perspective.

I think they can simplify the movement and camera controls, and the game will turn out much better.

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:47:Funny, it's your approach that I see as idiotic and short sighted. I'm not the one saying that anyone should HAVE to play the game any way. That's you, my friend, suggesting it's fine to make a game on PC that controls horribly on KB+M but fine on a gamepad, which in turn makes it essential to play on a gamepad to enjoy the game.

It's natural to have a game that plays better on a particular control interface because of the type of game (genre) due to the mechanics. You are the one bringing platform in the debate, when it's not about that. No matter how much you polish an FPS to work with controller, it can't match keyboard and mouse, all other things being equal. Similarly you can tap-tap-tap all you want on the keyboard but the analog controls will play better on racing games when cornering a turn or controlling the speed.

I don't know in how many ways I can answer your claim of 'a game must support most common system effectively, otherwise the developers messed up'. I am just glad that some game developers over the years have largely ignored this idiotic notion, and we have had games that had exclusive/effective PC requirements that weren't the most common at the time (VGA, math coprocessor, 3D cards, hard-disk, mouse, controllers, RAM EMS/XMS, sound cards, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM etc)

Graphics look good. Controls, eh, they're OK. I don't like that with my 360 controller plugged in I can't choose to use m/kb anyway, I actually have to unplug the controller. That's dumb. Not a big fan of the GIANT STRAIGHT LINE linear map. Follow the line, no choices to worry about, blah. Also don't don't like the convoluted talents, powers, etc, etc, etc screens. Holy crap, they're trying to give MMO complexity and way overdoing it.

All in all, I think I will pass. Like, Space Siege pass. (You know, not even bothering to buy it when it's $10)

Teddy wrote on Jun 7, 2011, 22:58:Where did you hear that they can be adjusted?

Someone's post below, dont recall who, dont care to look...said that the camera and mouse can be inverted, which seems to have solved the issue (at least for one person), maybe others if they try it. I havent tried the demo yet, in no rush to do so.