Bootz2004 wrote:There’s no way youre 2.5 hours from St. Pete. Not in Brandon.

Last two games I went to were 7:10 starts. Left the house at 4:45 with my oldest, hoping to catch some BP and maybe get him an autograph or two. We made it to our seats shortly after first pitch.

So, kindly **** off with the know it all nonsense.

Did you take the street and go all the way around thru Palm Harbor? I'm sorry. Even in rush hour, 2.5 hours from Brandon to St. Pete sounds preposterous. I could get from here to Orlando in less time than that. How is it taking you 2.5 hours to get to a city 40 miles away?

LMFAO!!! So the Jays are going to pretty much completely renovate Dunedin stadium and it's gonna total $81 million AND do it with help from the city. But we couldn't get a ****ing stadium built in St. Pete when the time came to do it. Pinellas County is a disaster.

Swashy wrote:LMFAO!!! So the Jays are going to pretty much completely renovate Dunedin stadium and it's gonna total $81 million AND do it with help from the city. But we couldn't get a ****ing stadium built in St. Pete when the time came to do it. Pinellas County is a disaster.

You're talking about HELPING to fund an $81 million stadium vs helping to fund a stadium that will be closer to $1 billion...You do the math, genius.

Swashy wrote:LMFAO!!! So the Jays are going to pretty much completely renovate Dunedin stadium and it's gonna total $81 million AND do it with help from the city. But we couldn't get a ****ing stadium built in St. Pete when the time came to do it. Pinellas County is a disaster.

You're talking about HELPING to fund an $81 million stadium vs helping to fund a stadium that will be closer to $1 billion...You do the math, genius.

Closer to $1 billion? Where are you getting that figure from? Based on what the Marlins did? There is NO WAY on God's green earth that either the Rays ownership and Hillsborough County would ever pay for ANYTHING close to $1 billion. If that's the case then we should just pack our **** and move now and hold out hope that some moneybags owner comes along, pays for a stadium AND expansion costs and we can start baseball from scratch again but this time not in a tuna can in a region that has neither the population or business base to adequately support it.

The point of the post is to show the irony that Pinellas County residents will splurge for an $81 million reclamation project for a Spring Training Stadium but when it comes to Major League Baseball it basically says "**** you" at every possible turn. I don't care what the difference in money is. If it's important enough you pay for it. Plain and simple.

Bootz2004 wrote:You're talking about HELPING to fund an $81 million stadium vs helping to fund a stadium that will be closer to $1 billion...You do the math, genius.

Closer to $1 billion? Where are you getting that figure from? Based on what the Marlins did? There is NO WAY on God's green earth that either the Rays ownership and Hillsborough County would ever pay for ANYTHING close to $1 billion. If that's the case then we should just pack our **** and move now and hold out hope that some moneybags owner comes along, pays for a stadium AND expansion costs and we can start baseball from scratch again but this time not in a tuna can in a region that has neither the population or business base to adequately support it.

The point of the post is to show the irony that Pinellas County residents will splurge for an $81 million reclamation project for a Spring Training Stadium but when it comes to Major League Baseball it basically says "**** you" at every possible turn. I don't care what the difference in money is. If it's important enough you pay for it. Plain and simple.

You may not care about the difference in money. But that would make you the fool not to care. It's there and it matters.

And okay maybe $1 billion is too much. Let's say closer to what Atlanta just spent for their stadium. $600 million. There's a huge difference between that and helping out to with an $81 million price tag.

Swashy wrote:Closer to $1 billion? Where are you getting that figure from? Based on what the Marlins did? There is NO WAY on God's green earth that either the Rays ownership and Hillsborough County would ever pay for ANYTHING close to $1 billion. If that's the case then we should just pack our **** and move now and hold out hope that some moneybags owner comes along, pays for a stadium AND expansion costs and we can start baseball from scratch again but this time not in a tuna can in a region that has neither the population or business base to adequately support it.

The point of the post is to show the irony that Pinellas County residents will splurge for an $81 million reclamation project for a Spring Training Stadium but when it comes to Major League Baseball it basically says "**** you" at every possible turn. I don't care what the difference in money is. If it's important enough you pay for it. Plain and simple.

You may not care about the difference in money. But that would make you the fool not to care. It's there and it matters.

And okay maybe $1 billion is too much. Let's say closer to what Atlanta just spent for their stadium. $600 million. There's a huge difference between that and helping out to with an $81 million price tag.

Of course there's an enormous difference in price but the problem in is how the residents of the county are picking and choosing where to spend tens of millions of dollars in public investment. It's not like in an $81 million renovation is throwing around chump change.

We can discuss figures all we want but it's likely that the best and most effective plan will probably be something that splits the bill to the degree of 50/25/25 with Stu and the boys taking advantage of the huge TV deal and out of pocket expense to foot half the bill. The residents of Tampa foot about 25% the bill over the course of something like a 30 year tax plan. Divide by a $500 million ballpark and you're looking at a $125 million bill. It's a lot but it's not impossible if you spread it out over at least 3 million people (in a region that's only going to get much bigger) over such a long duration. Meanwhile we can lean on the pillar of tourism to foot the other 25% -probably more. I mean we collected damn near $30 million in bed taxes last year alone.

The Rays are gonna have to get creative but the options are there. They need to come up with a plan how to build this thing and they need to do it fast. I do not expect commissioner Manfred to wait around much longer after we've spent no less than 7 years with our thumb up our ass

Bootz2004 wrote:You're talking about HELPING to fund an $81 million stadium vs helping to fund a stadium that will be closer to $1 billion...You do the math, genius.

Closer to $1 billion? Where are you getting that figure from? Based on what the Marlins did? There is NO WAY on God's green earth that either the Rays ownership and Hillsborough County would ever pay for ANYTHING close to $1 billion. If that's the case then we should just pack our **** and move now and hold out hope that some moneybags owner comes along, pays for a stadium AND expansion costs and we can start baseball from scratch again but this time not in a tuna can in a region that has neither the population or business base to adequately support it.

The point of the post is to show the irony that Pinellas County residents will splurge for an $81 million reclamation project for a Spring Training Stadium but when it comes to Major League Baseball it basically says "**** you" at every possible turn. I don't care what the difference in money is. If it's important enough you pay for it. Plain and simple.

Sternberg said last night that the estimated cost would be $800 million. He said that the ownership would contribute "significantly" - no number there - and may contribute even more based upon how much the local businesses step up and contribute.

More blackmail.

I wonder what would happen if he offered to pay these contributing businesses back from the profits? Make it an investment, not a "give me your money for my own gain" donation.

Swashy wrote:Closer to $1 billion? Where are you getting that figure from? Based on what the Marlins did? There is NO WAY on God's green earth that either the Rays ownership and Hillsborough County would ever pay for ANYTHING close to $1 billion. If that's the case then we should just pack our **** and move now and hold out hope that some moneybags owner comes along, pays for a stadium AND expansion costs and we can start baseball from scratch again but this time not in a tuna can in a region that has neither the population or business base to adequately support it.

The point of the post is to show the irony that Pinellas County residents will splurge for an $81 million reclamation project for a Spring Training Stadium but when it comes to Major League Baseball it basically says "**** you" at every possible turn. I don't care what the difference in money is. If it's important enough you pay for it. Plain and simple.

Sternberg said last night that the estimated cost would be $800 million. He said that the ownership would contribute "significantly" - no number there - and may contribute even more based upon how much the local businesses step up and contribute.

More blackmail.

I wonder what would happen if he offered to pay these contributing businesses back from the profits? Make it an investment, not a "give me your money for my own gain" donation.

In his mind "significantly" probably means anything with 9 figures in it. So to him $150mil-$175mil of an $800mil price tag is significant.

Sternberg said last night that the estimated cost would be $800 million. He said that the ownership would contribute "significantly" - no number there - and may contribute even more based upon how much the local businesses step up and contribute.

More blackmail.

I wonder what would happen if he offered to pay these contributing businesses back from the profits? Make it an investment, not a "give me your money for my own gain" donation.

In his mind "significantly" probably means anything with 9 figures in it. So to him $150mil-$175mil of an $800mil price tag is significant.

You're including the decimal in that 9 figures, I assume? Most people don't. But I guess your statement wouldn't make sense otherwise.

I still just think that he's yanking our chain. He's blatantly asking for more money, while promising to give some ever-increasing yet unspecified figure of his own. It's the regular old blackmail.

Swashy wrote:Closer to $1 billion? Where are you getting that figure from? Based on what the Marlins did? There is NO WAY on God's green earth that either the Rays ownership and Hillsborough County would ever pay for ANYTHING close to $1 billion. If that's the case then we should just pack our **** and move now and hold out hope that some moneybags owner comes along, pays for a stadium AND expansion costs and we can start baseball from scratch again but this time not in a tuna can in a region that has neither the population or business base to adequately support it.

The point of the post is to show the irony that Pinellas County residents will splurge for an $81 million reclamation project for a Spring Training Stadium but when it comes to Major League Baseball it basically says "**** you" at every possible turn. I don't care what the difference in money is. If it's important enough you pay for it. Plain and simple.

Sternberg said last night that the estimated cost would be $800 million. He said that the ownership would contribute "significantly" - no number there - and may contribute even more based upon how much the local businesses step up and contribute.

More blackmail.

I wonder what would happen if he offered to pay these contributing businesses back from the profits? Make it an investment, not a "give me your money for my own gain" donation.

$800 million? Seriously? What is he building the damn thing out of? Gold? I knew it wasn't gonna be cheap but forget this whole "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" crap. Without any firm numerical commitment towards a number that big it's just wasting time. Not to hit too far below the belt but you KNOW things are fucked when even a lawyer comes out and says the word "blackmail" about the way business is being conducted. I have had ZERO issues with him and how he's run our team up until now because I could understand and respect why he's made the choices he has. But I don't respect throwing a gun on the table and saying "This is the way it's gonna have to be." What am I supposed to do, say "thank you" for putting it on the table instead of against our head?

Just give us a ***damn number dude. We're all adults here. I can process that you have TREMENDOUS amount of commitment to other projects besides this one. The sooner I know your angle, the sooner I can digest and try to work with it as a willing taxpayer who does not wan to see his team leave.

But at this point I'm tempted to call Stu's bluff and make him commit right now to a solid number on the project or tell him to piss off. So do it, Stu! Go move the damn team or sell it to someone who will if it's gonna be that way. MLB will inevitably expand and believe me.... they can't afford to not have the Tampa Bay market and that's on one of those sweet TV deals alone. Just imagine what the viewership, attendance and revenue numbers would be in a proper stadium in Hillsborough County and not a Rays team that's spent almost 20 years tripping over its shoelaces and is now playing "new ballpark" chicken with us. The last 10 years have ranged from great to average and while I will not complain about our on the field success, that was never the heart of the issue here. Pinellas County does not have the business or population base to support the team as it needs to be. It's not anyone's fault, you just move the team in a better spot. We're trying that and now Stu is trying to capitalize off it.

I don't blame a business man for trying to make money and get the most for HIS dollar but I don't think any of us have time for this crap. I am a VERY patient person. And the dude better have some kind of a plan with all his **** together by October 2018 or I'm gonna become a statistic of many Rays fans who would show him the door.

I don't think I'm asking for much or being unfair here any more than Stu is. All I want is a number for the stadium and how much you're giving and not this hypothetical "wait and see" bullshit while the cost of the project goes up with each passing day. $150 million is nice... is it more or not?

And if it's that much of a problem, cut down on the cost of the project. Dear God we need a retractable roof, not a ****ing marina and hotel complex. I know it's probably unwise to assume he's going to have those things built but it seems on par because Stu does not strike me as the kind of guy that would put in for a ballpark unless it made him A LOT of extra side money

Swashy, $800mil is around the average rate for major sports stadiums now a days. These days $800mil wouldn't get you a decent football stadium. In baseball that's pretty good. The Braves new stadium was less but it's pretty generic. Not a ton of bells and whistles. They compensated by putting more seats closer to the field than any other stadium in MLB. As far as other stadiums built in the last 10 years well here's how much they cost.