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Tinsley= Underrated?

I think people don't give Tins the credit he deserves! Last year we would not have beaten boston had tins not played in that series. He came back and was HUGE in the game 5 win at boston. I think with the team we have minus artest we can deff make noise in the playoffs. JO has to step up and be a leader. And Sjax has to play TEAM BALL...I just wish Tins could stay injury free. Not likely tho. GO PACERS!

Re: Tinsley= Underrated?

Tinsley is a mixed bag.

At this point in his career you'd think he'd be solid. He possesses the tools, no doubt. And he -can- be solid and has shown that. But he can also go stretches where he's 'off the ranch'- Times where he gets into personal headgames on the court with opposing players. Some players might be able to do this and raise their game but Tinsley tends to simply lose focus and hurt his team when he does it.

You might shrug it off when it happens once or twice without success but the problem (as I see it) is that once he gets in that mode he keeps trying and trying to play this game of "oneupsmanship". The less successful he is, the more he keeps pushing it. It's as if he forgets there is a game going on or a system to be employed. It becomes Tinsley against the world at that point.

And then if the coach tries to rope him in...

He is prone to moodiness and not being a good teammate. You can argue this if you want but I know what I know.

And then, even if you disagree or can ignore all that and say "the good outweighs the bad", how can anyone disagree that Tinsley is injury prone? And we're not talking about missing a game here and there... he tends to miss them in bunches when he does.

All this equals a mess for the coach to deal with. And for the other players too. IMHO, you really want consistency from your PG spot. You need solid and heady play at all times. I personally would even allow and ignore some defensive lapses or liabilities from a PG because I see his role and responsibility with the offense more important. He can't allow you to play 4 on 5 when you're on defense, but he doesn't need to be a defensive animal either. At least IMHO.

Not only must the coach deal with wondering if Tinsley is going to be in the lineup game after game... and then wonder if he'll stay with the program while he is... he also has to constantly second guess his own philosophy and how much 'free-wheeling' (oneupmanship) he will allow from Tinsley before pulling his chain and risk a short bout of sinupoutinitis.

And personally, I don't like knowing the coach can't keep a player on the bench if his replacement is playing well without the coach worrying about the ramnifications on the player on the bench. It's one thing to want to be "in there".... it's another to look like you care more about "being in there" than the scoreboard if you are not "in there".

That's not a good recipe for team chemistry. If AJ or Saras (or anyone else) is having the game of their lives, they (or their teammates) shouldn't have to worry about whether Tinsley needs his ego stroked and people get pulled, not for the good of the game, but so Tinsley can get minutes and ward off sinupoutinitis.

Maybe much of this would be fine and work itself out in a less tight system (altho I don't know how the injury situation would improve... altho missing games with sinusitis might improve). But guess what, we don't play a "less tight system"... and I'm not sure we ever will, even with a coaching change. My gut tells me any coaching change we'd make wouldn't bring in a free wheeling offense that some of you seem to crave. And if we did do that, we'd be exposed in the playoffs anyway. Those teams always are.

And, as has been rehashed this week, even Isiah grew wary of Tinsley.

So IMHO Tinsley is not underrated overall. He possesses very good PG skills. But unless or until he can learn this is a team game and the scoreboard is bigger than any individual battles (and he should also know his own limitations), and there is a system to be employed whether he likes it or not, then he will continue to have some (me for one) questioning him.

-Bball

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Tinsley= Underrated?

I believe he's underrated, simply because he brings more to the table than most PG's. I won't go as far as saying he's the complete point guard package, because his outside shooting, although it has improved greatly, is still a shaky area. He rebounded well against the Knicks, has always had his share of steals, and plays solid one on one defense. When compared to other point guards, I think he is overlooked in part because our superstar (i.e., Nash, Iverson) is not a point guard. I without question, I feel he's top-10 in the league though. Simply looking at stats though, I think his numbers are misleading. Andre Miller is a good example, he averages 10 and 10, but Denver plays an uptempo game so he's bound to get his points and his assists. Obviously, we're more of a half-court set, so the numbers don't come as easily to Jamaal. So I think Jamaal's 12 and 5 are better than they appear. I also like Jamaal's ability to post up (kind of Mark Jackson-ish, minus the baby hook), and I think we all agree he's the best as far as lane penetration goes on the Pacers.

If the Pacers are to make a serious run at the title, much of our success will come with Jamaal leading the way.

Re: Tinsley= Underrated?

Tinsley has the potential to be a perenial All-Star. He's got the kind of gifts very few point guards are blessed with. His court vision, handling, and passing are all amongst the best in the league. He's one of the top rebounding point guards in the league. His shot has improved from bad to above average over the past few years. And he's a very solid defender.

However, whats always held Tinsley down is 2 things....
( 1 ) His injuries. Injury after injury. You're not gonna get your proper respect if you can only bring it 45 games a year. He needs to get healthy and stay healthy. A big chunk of it is his physical conditioning, which has improved drastically over the past 2 years, but is still sub-par.
( 2 ) What do Manu Ginobili and Jamaal Tinsley have in common? They both play limited minutes primarily due to their high level of turnovers. Too many fancy pass attempts leading to too many turnovers. Turnovers lead to easy baskets for the opposition, and that's a big no no.

If Tinsley can get those two issues under control, his game, his respect around the league, and the Pacers team success will all go up considerably.

Re: Tinsley= Underrated?

Jamaal certainly does have all the tools it takes to be a wonderful PG. BUT, he needs to keep his head in the game, and remain focused on the TEAM. It was already said, but his "oneupmanship" is what drives me nuts. Occasionally, it's like someone says something about his hair-do and he tries to show them up by "stickin' it to 'em," and when it doesn't work, he only gets worse about it. We can be immensly successful with JT in the lineup, or he can lose the game all by himself -- he just needs to maintain his focus on the game that the TEAM is playing, not the game HE is playing.