I was brought up with a pretty much hands-off strategy. to put it another way, my parents didn't give a crap about what i did. I didn't grow up as a delinquent. I was respected as one of the most well balanced of the class, asked many times for assistance in difficult tasks and welcomed into most tiers of the caste system you usually find in schools. I never gave the teachers any trouble and was quite friendly with some of the 'cooler' ones. ( you know the ones who would let you listen to music)
this is the result of a liberal upbringing.

Fair enough thats interesting, and its good that you thrived without any form of punishment.

But is that the case for all?

Personally I was caned at school and hit by both my parents. Do I have any resentment? None at all. If anything I recognize that I deserved it at the time. Did it make me a violent person? Not in the least.

You see kids aren't that dumb. Even if they get hit, it doesn't necesseraily mean that they view violence as the only way to solve problems throughout the rest of their lives. Kids aren't that programmable. You don't teach kids X and then they become Y. Its not a slot machine. As you say there are a huge number of factors involved that go into the make up of any one particular person.

What I don't understand is the totalitarian fear and hatred of CP. Its really not that bad! It doesn't maim anybody, it doesn't give people inferiority complexes. Like anything, it can do much good if used in the right way. Its not the expression of anger or hatred that some people seem to think it is. Its aim is to protect children, not harm them.

I went to both CP and non-CP schools. The latter were actually more violent in terms of students fighting, disorder, lack of academic or sporting prowess, and lack of respect for others.

@Nautilus I think it's not completely the fear of the thing, it's the fear of how some people react to it.
the video of this thread being the prime example.
many think that the presence of CP can lead to abuses.
like a teacher who thinks it's ok to mete out slaps in the classroom if the kids get unruly. or force the kids to kneel.
I think this is the kind of thing people are most averse to.

but of course there is the philosophy that blind obedience is not a good thing and that the human race will not evolve as long as some humans try to dominate others.

CP creates a situation where the students are unquestioning, un-erring. in brazil some time ago, anyone who raised doubts abut the government very soon disappeared. it became a situation where most of society was afraid to speak out. there is a similar situation on north korea. this kind of domination is abhorrent in my view.

We're all fooling each other by believing that we can sit down with an 8 year old and have a reasonable discussion about their behaviour and ultimately have them see the errors of their ways.

There may well be a minority, a very small minority who advocate reasoning with the infant, toddler, or 8-year old; however, that is not what opponents of corporal punishment generally advocate: "Sit down and reason with an 8-year old." Your statement is simply an inaccurate description of the issue. There are disciplinarey measures which involve neither corporal punishment nor "reasoning with the 8-year old."

I think that's my point, albeit not obviously stated. What are those options? And are they strong enough to prevent, in call cases with every child, enough? Like I said, I'm more leaning towards non-corporal punishments and never have I personally used that method. But I have witnessed and can on some level understand where an adult's understanding of reward/punishment cannot be grasped by a child. To use my previous example, the kid who ran into the street had outside privileges taken away for a while, she was put in time-outs, she was scolded. What worked was an immediate punishment that taught her the undesirable action was not worth it. She didn't understand why, she hated her mom for a while, but she could go outside the next day and not run into the street. It was an extreme case that forced her mother to act in the best interest of her child. Trust me, the mom wasn't over-emotional or a crack-pot. She was genuinely concerned that her daughter either a) would get killed; or b) not go outside again until she was 16.

It's kind of like, "You want to know what touching that hot stove plate feels like? I'll give you a taste without it becoming a serious situation. You decide if it's worth it. And when you are old enough to understand the danger, you'll be glad you only got a slap instead of living with a scar." It's ignorant to say anyone who opts for corporal punishment doesn't love or empathize with the child. It's fine for academics to sit in their offices and philosphize about the best mode of action, but reality is often more brutal than that. I think we've been so conditioned one way, that the thought of the other disgusts us. I'm just questioning whether that's a legitimate disgust or not.

Again, I'm entering this with an open/confused mind. I'm not sure what's best. I was spanked, often more, for little reason. On the other hand, I've seen some of my peers dealt with in a more 'modern' way and comparing us (and our siblings) I would say we all have our problems. There is no magic answer for every child and every situation.

We're all fooling each other by believing that we can sit down with an 8 year old and have a reasonable discussion about their behaviour and ultimately have them see the errors of their ways.

While I agree with lots of what ya said, man... this one sits wrong with me. I have a 5 year old at home, and I talk to her all the time about her behaviour - what's right and what's wrong. She gets it. Maybe not 100% at first, and it may take various forms of reinforcement, but she gets it.

I use CP at home as a last resort. Never out of anger, after establishing the warnings, and always after a certain amount of cooling off. But it's rare. So rare, in fact, I can't remember the last time I had to use it - maybe twice in her life.

I find discussion, explanation, and consistency to be far more effective.

While I agree with lots of what ya said, man... this one sits wrong with me. I have a 5 year old at home, and I talk to her all the time about her behaviour - what's right and what's wrong. She gets it. Maybe not 100% at first, and it may take various forms of reinforcement, but she gets it.

I use CP at home as a last resort. Never out of anger, after establishing the warnings, and always after a certain amount of cooling off. But it's rare. So rare, in fact, I can't remember the last time I had to use it - maybe twice in her life.

I find discussion, explanation, and consistency to be far more effective.

And orders. Concise, clear, age-appropriate orders. "Well, gee, honey, I don't think it's such a good idea for you to run into the street. What do you think?" doesn't strike me as the conversation to be having a with a five-year old. On the other hand, "Do not go into the street," or better yet, "You may play in the yard while mommy or daddy watches you," is appropriate and quite likely far more effective. And if the child is wandering towards the street anyway, a firm "Stop!" is likely all that's needed instead of, "Gee, don't you remember the conversation we had an hour ago?"

Any country that still, in the 21st century, utilizes the concept of "blood money" is a very primitive society indeed. Watch the way many Koreans treat each other. If that girl is severely injured, then that bully teacher owes HER, and/or her parents, "blood money", or the teacher should be locked up.

Any country that still, in the 21st century, utilizes the concept of "blood money" is a very primitive society indeed. Watch the way many Koreans treat each other. If that girl is severely injured, then that bully teacher owes HER, and/or her parents, "blood money", or the teacher should be locked up.

Ironic considering your name...lol
And a tad bit racist.

Anyways, much of Asia still utilizes the concept of 'blood money', including the 2nd/3rd largest economy in the world... Japan.

Sorry that you feel that way, jvalmer. So sad when some liberal teacher always has to say the race card to make themselves look tolerant.

And I'll say this even further - you may think Saudis are behind the times. yes, they do some weird things - but being honest, they DON'T throw nearly as many tantrums as angry Koreans who don't get their way. And they pay more too - and I don't have to worry about currency slides against the USD because its pegged to the USD. Unlike K-land's money.

And I still believe that rather, maybe, than punching a male Korean who does this to a student, restrain him. If I don't hit him, what can he do? Or, pull the kid away from the immature selfish man hitting. Yes, make him lose face. That's what I'd like.

Another mark of an immature society - face saving. In addition to blood money.

Racist? Or telling it like it is. I don't care if you call me a racist, I'm gonna say what I think.

Any country that still, in the 21st century, utilizes the concept of "blood money" is a very primitive society indeed. Watch the way many Koreans treat each other. If that girl is severely injured, then that bully teacher owes HER, and/or her parents, "blood money", or the teacher should be locked up.

I'm thoroughly enjoying the government public service announcements on the Hong Kong TV stations I get to see here in mainland China. According to those spots, it's now illegal in HK to (a) attempt to coerce with cash or any other incentive a witness or a victim of your illegal activity and (b) to accept any gratuity, cash, or other incentive from the person who made you a victim. The public service spots are pretty funny, but it's a very serious message, one South Korea needs to learn, IMHO.

Back to the out-of-control teacher: That sod needs to be locked up, regardless of how much money the court orders him to pay in restitution/compensation to his victim.

Calling people "racist" is a cop-out. It seems this is the go-to adjective these days for people who are insecure about themselves to throw at others who don't share their beliefs. I've even heard it used when problems are between people of the same race and culture, that someone involved is "racist". I've learned to avoid these people, because they usually are also hostile to any kind of religion or faith and likely grew up in a home with divorced or bickering parents, leading to a desire to show how superior they are by picking the next thing they can attack people with.

Some of the same folks who scream racism are the same ones who would heckle or torment someone who is overweight, or someone who is not considered attractive by the world's standards. All this usually points to someone under 30 who is a nihilist, atheistic and Godless, so he/she turns his/her attention to the color of someone's skin, trying to do just a little bit of good in the world they wish they weren't born into. You aren't fooling anyone.

I've met wonderful Koreans, but it's ones like this teacher that need to be jailed. And by the way, doing something like this in Saudi Arabia would likely get this teacher lashed.

That's right, Patrick - when one starts calling other people racist - the things I mentioned do make a difference. People from families that are loving and affirming know not to call others things like this, especially hiding behind the veneer of a message board. It's the ones who don't know what love and commitment are that always feel like lashing out. I am so sick of people doing that here - and that's all I have to say on the subject. Won't be reading your responses either, so don't waste your time firing back.