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You are talking in the 2nd person plural. You keep talking as if 'YOU' are 'WE'. Thats pretty much the cliche group therapy thing, or elementary school teacher line...
"Now class, what have we learned today?"

I dont know if thats just your personal style of talking or what... but it can be kinda freaking annoying. Talk about yourself, talk about what you have taken from this thread and ask what the rest of us have taken from this. You and I are distinct entities. Please do not lump me in with you and everyone else. "We" are not some borg collective that has a mutual goal and drive.
If you want talk about your thoughts... make it clear they are yours. If you want to talk about what you hope I may have gotten from something, thats fine too.
Perhaps its not your intention, but it comes across as very passive agressive. Most of your comments are about a collective "We" or "Community".
Everytime you ask a dev for something its always because, "it will help the community" or "we need this".
Can you please stop trying to talk for everyone? You have your voice, stand up for what you think and feel. respect everyone else to let them stand up for what they think and feel.

"Collaborating ..." somehow wouldn't that be a "we" .... Further, the ideas that many have contributed here, collectively, is a "we" in this thread. If you feel that you were NOT a part of the thread, then I sorry, but you were one of us....thus "we". In its own way, this thread can be thought of as a kind of collaboration, although it would not meet the strict interpretation.

That's neither double-talk or partial or personal. This topic is being moved in the wrong direction. Its intention is NOT to annoy anyone of "us" (that's we or a wei or ...).

If we should venture toward something should it have a means to provide a "vent" tank for those who have an expressed need to use it? This, can be a useful area in a collaboration, as well.

Great interaction as it also give clues on needs that should be included in a model. It may not be obvious, but "we" are learning thru the interactions we, indeed, are having here, for example, a need for a vent tank, maybe.

Thanks for any of your cooperation. Those specific comments are helpful in there own way.
Envisioning a model, defining it, structuring it would allow the last step...a project. It would be hoped to be obvious and transparent.

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"Collaborating ..." somehow wouldn't that be a "we" .... Further, the ideas that many have contributed here, collectively, is a "we" in this thread. If you feel that you were NOT a part of the thread, then I sorry, but you were one of us....thus "we". In its own way, this thread can be thought of as a kind of collaboration, although it would not meet the strict interpretation.

That's neither double-talk or partial or personal. This topic is being moved in the wrong direction. Its intention is NOT to annoy anyone of "us" (that's we or a wei or ...).

As I said in my previous post, I dont know if its your personal writing style or not. But there is a major difference between:
Talking about the community ('we' as a group)
Talking for the community ('we' as a group)

The way you write it sounds more like the 2nd than the 1st. That is where my comments are coming from. The way you have been talking it comes across like you have ordained yourself the community representative and are talking on our behalf. The reason I mention this to you, is so you can be aware of it. If its not intended... it might explain why myself and perhaps others are irked by the tone that you take. Its a common human response to not give credence to a message when we dont like how the message is being promoted.

As for where to go... As has been suggested, people need to figure out what they want in a release and then find devs who are willing to work on it. Will anyone take that step?

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I'm sorry, but I made some wrong translations. I meant: I did collaborate now for about the last 8 or 9 months... (post above edited).

RSH

The "good luck with that" comment was in refernce to getting people to do more than just talk. I was referring to those that love to talk over and over in this thread and others about 'collaboration' yet never do more than continue to talk about it. Or those who reference work others have done... as if them linking to others work means they are doing something worthwhile.

I've kept an eye on your Lazypup thread for the ideas you've been incorporating. So yea... wasnt talking about you.

... as if them linking to others work means they are doing something worthwhile.
.

Q5sys: It's difficult for mere technicians to understand those who have evolved beyond the personal pronoun. The cure for all lowly technicians is to get back to work churning out more useless code. Presently "I'm" punching out some Java apps....what could be more useless than that?

I'm sure they can contribute what they used and how they were able to derive success in how they collaborate. Thus, their process will reflect one "model" of collaborating.

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What Im about to say is not an attack against you... it is merely a comment on the act of posting about tools.
Collarboration does not require a million tools. It doesnt require some new fangled software. What it requires is for people to work together. Let me give an example. You can take an untrained person and stick them into a complete mechanics shop and give them the opportunity to work on a car... and nothing will get done. Why? Because it doesnt matter how many tools they have, if they dont have the knowledge to use them... or if they dont even know what work even needs to be done.
Having tools is great, but only if you A) know how to use them, and B) actually will use them. Tools sitting in a toolbox wont do a thing if no one wants to actually do any work.

I'm sure they can contribute what they used and how they were able to derive success in how they collaborate. Thus, their process will reflect one "model" of collaborating.

Here to help

Want to know how we collaborated... its really simple. I sent JamesBond a PM and asked him for some advice in what I wanted to do, since he had already gone down that road. After talking back and forth a bit we figured out the best way to proceed and then we did.

But let me back up a bit. Let me explain where that project came from.
Probably about 3 years ago (maybe even longer) someone released a super slim 32bit puppy that was a good base if you wanted to make your own release. I forget who it was at the time, but I loved it. It allowed me to take a complete barebones system and test and play around and completely screw things up... but it gave me a playground to learn. I had to do make the effort, I had to try things out, I had to actually do some work... but it allowed me to learn more than just asking someone else to do the work for me. Someone else gave me the tool... I had to apply that tool and put for the effort to use it.

Well I've gotten strictly into 64bit now... so I've wanted a base 64bit system , to be able to do the same thing with. With the computer I have right now, and the one Im going to building... I need 64 bit. I just cant get by with 32.
I had been hoping someone would make something like this, but really there have only been 3 64bit devs in the community, Kirk, Jamesbond, and TazOC. I could have sat around and posted in peoples threads asking for them to do it, I could have pestered people for months trying to play mental games to try to get them to do what I wanted. But that's not my style. Here in is an example of a 'Do-acracy'. (for those that dont know what a doacracy is; its an organizational structure in which people choose roles and tasks for themselves and then do them. Responsibilities attach to those who do the work, rather than elected positions or other people who are stand-byers)
I wanted this... so I decided to make it happen. I wanted the tool... but in this case I had to put forth the effort to make it.
I realized the task of building this release was going to fall on me. So I tried my hand numerous times at trying to make wolf work for 64bit, and kept failing. After a dozen or so failed attempts I gave JamesBond a shout out and asked him for some pointers.
After explaining my thoughts and ideas, he said he could help. He was already doing some of the work for a future Fatdog release, so there was no reason for us to double efforts. He did what he was could do easily with his planned work, and I'd pick up the ball from there and take it the rest of the way.
Meeki and I have been doing development for TazOC in the LightHouse Thread, so we've been talking back and forth about other things. When I mentioned this project he loved the idea and wanted to know if he could pitch in and help where he was able. He wanted to get his hands dirty and learn more about Puppy.

So all 3 of the main people involved in slackbones, Myself, JamesBond, and Meeki; all decided to take the step and put forth the effort. Talking about it over and over in threads, taking surveys, trying to see what others would think of the idea... no we didnt do any of that. We sat our butts down and actually did some work.

Thats how things get done. They dont get done by having a focus group (anyone who's dealt with corperate america knows how much of a joke those can be). Things get done when people decided to start working on something.

So for everyone saying 'we need to collaborate'. What we need is less people saying we need to collaborate, and more people actually willing to do some work. It doesnt have to be coding work, there is a TON of work to be done around the Puppy Linux Community that no one is doing.
The coders and devs need to do what they do best... Code and Dev. Those who want to help but cant code and dev... just pick a project and ask what you can do to help.

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