Further weigh could be reduced by offering the stability control as an option. That way; you save $$$$ and weigh if you do not need it. But I feel that most people drive into the ditch without it on the track. They just not that good!

Further weigh could be reduced by offering the stability control as an option. That way; you save $$$$ and weigh if you do not need it. But I feel that most people drive into the ditch without it on the track. They just not that good!

Pretty sure stability control is mandatory on all cars as of 2012 MY. Plus, I doubt it adds any weight at all since it essentially uses the same hardware as antilock brakes, and ABS isn't going anywhere.

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Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather __________________

Pretty sure stability control is mandatory on all cars as of 2012 MY. Plus, I doubt it adds any weight at all since it essentially uses the same hardware as antilock brakes, and ABS isn't going anywhere.

Correct.

Now, dumping the ZL1-derived MR, and replacing it with an "enhanced" FE4 would save some pork...

The SS and ZL1 will always be the top GM camaro's Z28 was always lower and will always be lower then the SS. That is why CHEVY uses SS on all its high end vehicles Ex. Cobalt SS, Trail Blazer SS, Impala SS, and many more SS models

The SS and ZL1 will always be the top GM camaro's Z28 was always lower and will always be lower then the SS. That is why CHEVY uses SS on all its high end vehicles Ex. Cobalt SS, Trail Blazer SS, Impala SS, and many more SS models

I disagree. I'd say that GM considers the Z28 to be superior to the Camaro SS. They used 'SS' on their mainstream, every day V8 powered Camaro for the 5th gen. Thats fine, but what the move also says is that they don't consider 'Z28' to be a mainstream, everyday V8 Camaro.

__________________

Note, if I've gotten any facts wrong in the above, just ignore any points I made with them
__________________don't believe a thing you read about the next gen Camaro -- as history has proven time and time again:

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT FUTURE PRODUCT PLANS PERIOD FbodFather __________________

The SS and ZL1 will always be the top GM camaro's Z28 was always lower and will always be lower then the SS. That is why CHEVY uses SS on all its high end vehicles Ex. Cobalt SS, Trail Blazer SS, Impala SS, and many more SS models

really it depends on how you define lower performance. because the 1st gen Z28 was the all around performer while the SS was a straight line queen. so if you only talk about the 1320 then you might be right. but for us that like to go to the mountains and have fun. . .you are sadly mistaken.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by fbodfather

We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name.

The SS and ZL1 will always be the top GM camaro's Z28 was always lower and will always be lower then the SS. That is why CHEVY uses SS on all its high end vehicles Ex. Cobalt SS, Trail Blazer SS, Impala SS, and many more SS models

The SS was more of a strait line car, where the z28 was the street legal track car. I'll take a car that corners better over one that can pedal fast in a straight line.

The SS and ZL1 will always be the top GM camaro's Z28 was always lower and will always be lower then the SS. That is why CHEVY uses SS on all its high end vehicles Ex. Cobalt SS, Trail Blazer SS, Impala SS, and many more SS models

What?? You're right a SS emblem can be stuck on anything; cars, trucks, boats, trains, and planes.

Now a Z/28 emblem, do you need a hint?

SS, Z/28, and then the ZL1.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DGthe3

I disagree. I'd say that GM considers the Z28 to be superior to the Camaro SS. They used 'SS' on their mainstream, every day V8 powered Camaro for the 5th gen. Thats fine, but what the move also says is that they don't consider 'Z28' to be a mainstream, everyday V8 Camaro.

The SS and ZL1 will always be the top GM camaro's Z28 was always lower and will always be lower then the SS. That is why CHEVY uses SS on all its high end vehicles Ex. Cobalt SS, Trail Blazer SS, Impala SS, and many more SS models

Uuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhh, No.
I wouldn't consider some of those vehicles as high end Chevys. A side note, I believe the Z28 was close in 1/4 mile performance to the SS396 in 1969. Yet handling was not even close.

I think i remember reading somewhere that the 1st Gen Z/28 was underrated, just like the ZL1. ZL1 was rated for 425 hp, but actual output was closer to 560. Z/28 had actual output around 400, which is more than many of the SS models of the time. Whether those also were underrated, I do not know.

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NHRA had a "factoring" formula in effect for Stock-SuperStock classes, back in the day. IIRC, 302-290 hp was factored to about 350...and of course that's GROSS as opposed to the NET rating (accessories/exhaust present) used from '71-on (generally) by GM/others.

Ratings were all over the map, back then. Some struggled to meet theirs ("marketing"), while some were for "insurance purposes" and therefore "undervalued". And sometimes, the "rating" was taken at an rpm well below "max" i.e. L88/ZL1, both "rated" 430 (to avoid those folks who wanted "the most" from selecting what was essentially a race-only engine), below the L71's 435 rating.

I think i remember reading somewhere that the 1st Gen Z/28 was underrated, just like the ZL1. ZL1 was rated for 425 hp, but actual output was closer to 560. Z/28 had actual output around 400, which is more than many of the SS models of the time. Whether those also were underrated, I do not know.

First gen. Z/28s ran better than SS396 325HP and 396/350HP, and almost as well as the SS396/375HP in the quarter mile, none of the SS models in stock configuration kept up with a Z/28 stock configuration in the twisties. Quarter mile numbers seem to reflect those HP numbers with apparent HP of the first gen. Z/28 appearing to be between 360-375HP in stock single four barrel configuration.
Clyde

First gen. Z/28s ran better than SS396 325HP and 396/350HP, and almost as well as the SS396/375HP in the quarter mile, none of the SS models in stock configuration kept up with a Z/28 stock configuration in the twisties. Quarter mile numbers seem to reflect those HP numbers with apparent HP of the first gen. Z/28 appearing to be between 360-375HP in stock single four barrel configuration.
Clyde

Thanks for that! Very interesting information!

__________________

You may never have to outrun a Decepticon invasion...
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First gen. Z/28s ran better than SS396 325HP and 396/350HP, and almost as well as the SS396/375HP in the quarter mile, none of the SS models in stock configuration kept up with a Z/28 stock configuration in the twisties. Quarter mile numbers seem to reflect those HP numbers with apparent HP of the first gen. Z/28 appearing to be between 360-375HP in stock single four barrel configuration.
Clyde

The limiting factors, back in the day, were tires and gription. And the more torque a car made, the less capable the OEM tires were of harnessing that power. Nose-heavy cars like 396 Camaros were additionally hobbled by disadvantageous weight distribution and, therefore, less rearend traction.

A "showroom floor" 302 Z/28 generally was capable of mid-upper 14s (eerily similar to today's LLT), and juice-cam'd '96s were variously similar. An L78, well-tuned and -driven, would break into the 13s...just. Again, showroom-stock/untouched.

Hot Rod Magazine did a Project build-up of a 302 Z, with a balanced/blueprinted engine, headers, 4.88s, Stock-legal 7" slicks, and some other NHRA-legal things. Final result, as I recall, was 12.70s...stout in its day, but about 3/10s over the record for F/Stock. And Dave Strickler, a disciple of and "partner" to Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins, ran high-11s in his Super Stock version: any cam, 10" slicks, any single-4 under-hood intake etc.

I could see a modest weight loss but the advantage of the Z28 will be mostly suspension and power train. If the Z28 does come out I would guess it would be much more limited than the ZL1 and with not many options. Maybe color and RS.

The limiting factors, back in the day, were tires and gription. And the more torque a car made, the less capable the OEM tires were of harnessing that power. Nose-heavy cars like 396 Camaros were additionally hobbled by disadvantageous weight distribution and, therefore, less rearend traction.

A "showroom floor" 302 Z/28 generally was capable of mid-upper 14s (eerily similar to today's LLT), and juice-cam'd '96s were variously similar. An L78, well-tuned and -driven, would break into the 13s...just. Again, showroom-stock/untouched.

Hot Rod Magazine did a Project build-up of a 302 Z, with a balanced/blueprinted engine, headers, 4.88s, Stock-legal 7" slicks, and some other NHRA-legal things. Final result, as I recall, was 12.70s...stout in its day, but about 3/10s over the record for F/Stock. And Dave Strickler, a disciple of and "partner" to Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins, ran high-11s in his Super Stock version: any cam, 10" slicks, any single-4 under-hood intake etc.

Oh I'm well aware of what the various configurations have run both back in the day and more recently. The current D/Stock record set last year is held by Jerry Macneish, 10.45 at I think it was 127 in a '67 Z/28. The stock class cars run stock heads, intake, and carb, sure they're balanced, etc., but not that radically different from the factory engines.
Clyde

Oh I'm well aware of what the various configurations have run both back in the day and more recently. The current D/Stock record set last year is held by Jerry Macneish, 10.45 at I think it was 127 in a '67 Z/28. The stock class cars run stock heads, intake, and carb, sure they're balanced, etc., but not that radically different from the factory engines.
Clyde