Monday, January 20, 2014

If the NY Super Bowl crowd doesn’t break into a “Goodbye Allie” chant against Richard Sherman, I’ll be very disappointed.

Seahawks corner Richard Sherman (forbearance please: there’s a baseball hook forthcoming) announced names and shouted nice things about himself following his team’s victory over the 49ers in the NFC Championship Game. It was a soliloquy of triumph normally associated with the gentleman’s pursuit known as “professional wrestling,” which led some to wring hands over the matter on media sociale. One of those was Tigers ace Justin Verlander, who, understandably enough, viewed Sherman’s growled harrumphing through the handsome prism of this, our baseball.

Mr. Verlander’s thoughts:

Justin Verlander ✔ @JustinVerlander

So Russell is a class act! Sherman on the other hand…. If he played baseball would get a high and tight fastball.

He’s probably right, of course, as baseball has a very specific and occasionally inscrutable code of decorum when it comes to triumphalism in all its forms.

Of course, given the video evidence available in that EOF link above, I have zero doubts that Mr. Sherman would be charging the mound upon receiving and giving due consideration to said purpose pitch. On the third hand, a manager would quite possibly be most displeased with the hurler who plunked a batter lugging around the sub-.100 OBP that constitutes the best that a football player could muster against MLB pitching.

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On the third hand, a manager would quite possibly be most displeased with the hurler who plunked a batter lugging around the sub-.100 OBP that constitutes the best that a football player could muster against MLB pitching.

You know... what Deion Sanders did ~20 years ago was absolutely incredible, wasn't it?

Yea Richard Sherman refusing to ply along with the tired post game trope of false humility and decorum is really "bad behavior". It was fun is what it was. Dude just made an iconic play he walked the walk, let him chirp a bit, it sounds like Crabtree was running his move (which again, cool) so Sherman got the last word.

Hard to comment on the Sherman thing without knowing what Crabtree said or did to him beforehand. I wouldn't be surprised to see him get some cheap shots thrown at him next time those two teams meet up, the idea that this represents some big difference in baseball vs. football decorum is misplaced.

Sherman also went over to shake Crabtree's hand after the play, and Crabtree pushed him in the face. Anyone ever think that maybe that is what set him off? I'd be pretty irate if someone just did that to me.

Sherman also went over to shake Crabtree's hand after the play, and Crabtree pushed him in the face. Anyone ever think that maybe that is what set him off? I'd be pretty irate if someone just did that to me.

Or, Sherman, being Sherman, went over to rub it in a little, and Crabtree, being Crabtree, pushed him in the face. That struck me as the more likely explanation for that exchange.

Sherman also went over to shake Crabtree's hand after the play, and Crabtree pushed him in the face. Anyone ever think that maybe that is what set him off? I'd be pretty irate if someone just did that to me.

Or, Sherman, being Sherman, went over to rub it in a little, and Crabtree, being Crabtree, pushed him in the face. That struck me as the more likely explanation for that exchange.

Of course we can't know what happened, but SoSH's explanation seems to be the more likely scenario. Who goes over to "shake [the opponent]'s hand" right after a defensive play? After the game, sure, but given that Sherman is widely known as one of the biggest trash talkers in the league, I doubt it was any sort of congratulatory handshake.

I have no problem with Sherman talking a ton after the game... but why do you have to disparage Crabtree like that? Why call him a garbage receiver (or whatever exact term Sherman used)? That implies you really don't have to be that good to stop him, after all.

Sherman should have called Crabtree the best receiver in football, then said how he was able to shut him down.

On the third hand, a manager would quite possibly be most displeased with the hurler who plunked a batter lugging around the sub-.100 OBP that constitutes the best that a football player could muster against MLB pitching.

What would the score have been had the Seahawks been required to put Justin Verlander in at cornerback?

2) Sherman stated that he is the best cornerback in the league - is he? I honestly don't know, I don't watch enough games to really be able to tell...

Arguably? Yes. In my opinion he is, but arguments could be made for other corners. But if you proclaimed Sherman to be the best, people could disagree with you while thinking someone else was better, but they couldn't just flat out say you were wrong. It's similar to the G.O.A.T. in QB discussions... there's always 3-5 in the coversation.

Did Sherman's choking motion come before or after he went over to shake Crabtree's hand?

Pretty sure it was after.

EDIT: If I remember correctly, he celebrated with the team after getting up. Then ran over to Crabtree and had the exchange with him. Then as he was walking towards the sideline, he made the choking sign.

Fish, you are right. Sherman was flapping his gums, bobbing his head and patted Crabtree on the butt. Then Sherman kept up the jaw flapping right in Crabtree's face, and that's when Crabtree pushed him away. Basically Sherman was being an a-hole. Of course, Crabtree could have been an a-hole the entire game, I don't know. Then the cameras showed the choking sign as Sherman moved away from the corner towards the middle, as I saw it.

And on the play, Sherman beat Kaepernick, not Crabtree. Kaepernick didn't quite throw it deep enough.

Yes, it was. In that little instance Sherman initiated the conflict but I have no doubt Crabtree and Sherman were jawing all game long before that. Sherman made the play, to the victors go the spoils imo.

On a side note that people here will appreciate, Wilson was asked after the game what he was thinking as the clock hit zero after the final snap, his answer: "I could be playing baseball right now".

Pretty neat that a very good, very young QB is still wondering what could have been in the other sport he was pretty good at.

And on the play, Sherman beat Kaepernick, not Crabtree. Kaepernick didn't quite throw it deep enough.

I dunno about that, if the coverage is that good, that it requires a perfect or near perfect throw to complete, then that's pretty good coverage. The offensive player knows where he's going. Kaepernick has many virtues as a player, pin point accuracy on his fade routes is not one of them. Edit: I think we're saying the same thing.

In it he mentions that the pat on the butt and the extended hand was to say good game to Crabtree. This is obviously just his side of the story and I can easily see how, legit or not, Crabtree could see that as trolling.

You know... what Deion Sanders did ~20 years ago was absolutely incredible, wasn't it?

Multi-sport athletes like that never cease to amaze me. Never.

And come on, enough hand-wringing from the media over this. Sherman is a warrior who said some crazy warrior #### after the game. Verlander is probably right. Everybody is right.

Having watched the two Conference Championships I was most stricken by the differences between the QBs and the teams. New England/Denver was so much more academic, with stationary QB's throwing lasers. Seattle/San Francisco almost looked like it was played in fast-forward in comparison, like comparing Madden to NFL Blitz where everyone can run and hit like crazy.

MV, it wasn't a fade and Kapernick let Sherman off the hook by not throwing it further so that only Crabtree or no one could catch it. A little better throw and we would've found out if Crabtree is a clown too.

New England/Denver was so much more academic, with stationary QB's throwing lasers. Seattle/San Francisco almost looked like it was played in fast-forward in comparison, like comparing Madden to NFL Blitz where everyone can run and hit like crazy.

The throw Kaepernick made for the TD, where he jumped and delivered a relative laser (with just enough arc to get it over the defender) was a thing of beauty. In a way it's strange it took the NFL so long to fully embrace the dual threat QB, although if you can't make the throws you're not really a dual threat.

Even QBs like Brady and Manning are relatively mobile compared to Warren Moon or Dan Marino. You have to at least be able to move within the pocket.

After what Sherman said to Skip Bayless, he can say whatever he wants:

“In my 24 years of life, I’m better at life than you,” Sherman told Bayless on Thursday. “It’s not personal, this is résumé. I’m better than you.”

“I am intelligent enough, capable enough, to understand that you are an ignorant, pompous, egotistical cretin,” Sherman told Bayless. “And that’s what it comes down to. And I’m going to crush you on here, in front of everybody, because I’m tired of hearing about it.”

MV, it wasn't a fade and Kapernick let Sherman off the hook by not throwing it further so that only Crabtree or no one could catch it. A little better throw and we would've found out if Crabtree is a clown too.

#42 You can't really run a fade from the 20 yard line, that's more of like a corner route. A fade is from closer, it's more directly toward the sideline and floatier, like Plaxico and Randy Moss used to do.

The bottom line is that was one hell of a football game, and what Sherman did was just frosting on the cake. Both of those teams yesterday were infinitely more enjoyable to watch than Denver or New England.

And not that he isn't capable of it, but Peyton Manning's going to have to step it up several notches to give Denver a chance against Seattle. That's not New England's sorry defense that he's going to be up against this time.

BTW Doc Walker and Brian Mitchell were both ridiculing callers to their radio show who were tut-tutting over Sherman's trash talking. Mitchell said he just wished that the Redskins could show emotion like that on a football field. (Good luck with that one!)

#42 You can't really run a fade from the 20 yard line, that's more of like a corner route. A fade is from closer, it's more directly toward the sideline and floatier, like Plaxico and Randy Moss used to do.

Right. A fade route is almost always on a one-step drop by the QB. Take the snap, plant, and lob.

Just to pile on,on a fade route the receiver slides, or fades, right off the line of scrimmage towards the sideline to create separation from the DB. Crabtree started on the 22-ish yard line, ,that is a lot of vertical route prior to even approaching the corner of the end zone.

Kapernick let Sherman off the hook by not throwing it further so that only Crabtree or no one could catch it. A little better throw and we would've found out if Crabtree is a clown too.

This, and the interesting factoid that the 49ers challenged Sherman exactly twice the entire game.

Highly questionable play call. They had 30 seconds, it was first down, they had two timeouts. Absolutely ridiculous to give Sherman the chance to be a hero. Roll out Kaepernick to his left again - it had been working fine that drive - or even run a draw to Gore. But to challenge the SEA corners one-on-one was a macho move that backfired bigtime.

Another Richard Sherman favorite of mine is his valentines day email to his dorm-mates.

I was watching the game with a few guys who were at Stanford with Sherman and knew him and said he is one of the world's prizewinning ########. Baldwin (Doug) apparently is no prince either. They both slipped a lot in the draft due to "makeup" issues (Baldwin wasn't drafted at all), which is why Sherman hates Harbaugh/the 49ers so much - after college Harbaugh was apparently pretty open with NFL scouts about Sherman's character issues, which caused him to fall.

He is a pretty great corner however.

Highly questionable play call. They had 30 seconds, it was first down, they had two timeouts. Absolutely ridiculous to give Sherman the chance to be a hero. Roll out Kaepernick to his left again - it had been working fine that drive - or even run a draw to Gore. But to challenge the SEA corners one-on-one was a macho move that backfired bigtime.

I agree on this. If you (the 49ers brass) didn't like that matchup all game long, why do you suddenly like it at the very end when it matters most? I think they got close to the goal line and their eyes got a little big. There's no reason you have to go get it all at once. Hell, taking more time benefited them at that point.

“You expect these guys to play like maniacs and animals for 60 minutes,” she said. “And then 90 seconds after he makes a career-defining, game-changing play, I’m gonna be mad because he’s not giving me a cliché answer, ‘That’s what Seahawks football is all about and that’s what we came to do and we practice for those situations.’ No you don’t. That was awesome. That was so awesome. And I loved it.”

I don't understand why Sherman's remarks made such a stir; was busy today and returned home to find an RSS feed full of explanations of what It Really Means to go off about "a sorry receiver like Crabtree."

Best line I've read: Erin Andrews asked her "Who was talking about you?" question in the tone of a confused mom speaking with her tantrum-throwing child.

On a side note that people here will appreciate, Wilson was asked after the game what he was thinking as the clock hit zero after the final snap, his answer: "I could be playing baseball right now".

Pretty neat that a very good, very young QB is still wondering what could have been in the other sport he was pretty good at.

I wouldn't take it that way. Wilson didn't show much baseball ability. At one time he had two choices in his mind, now it turns out one led to the Super Bowl and the other one to beating the bushes with likely no chance at the majors. Like a vocalist getting offers from two bands; one turns out to be Led Zeppelin and the other one breaks up after one failed album. I don't think Wilson regrets quitting baseball.

“You expect these guys to play like maniacs and animals for 60 minutes,” she said. “And then 90 seconds after he makes a career-defining, game-changing play, I’m gonna be mad because he’s not giving me a cliché answer, ‘That’s what Seahawks football is all about and that’s what we came to do and we practice for those situations.’ No you don’t. That was awesome. That was so awesome. And I loved it.”

She may say that now, but from the look on her face in the middle of the interview she didn't seem to be thinking that at the time.

I don't understand why Sherman's remarks made such a stir;

Really? It was pretty much the opposite of every postgame interview every athlete gives ever with a big anger component. It was obviously going to make headlines from the second it happened.

I think she was afraid he would start dropping F-bombs and hitting on her and she wanted to get out of there before it happened. She probably regrets it now, when it appears it was just a WWF-style rant.

I think she was afraid he would start dropping F-bombs and hitting on her and she wanted to get out of there before it happened. She probably regrets it now, when it appears it was just a WWF-style rant.

I thought the above clip was going to be the "You're a real man Deion" fracas.

It was amusing that it was Tim McCarver, who skipped his full-time announcing gig on a weekly basis for the Fox Sports Saturday spot, criticizing Sanders for being unprofessional by not devoting all his energies to one team.

How was McCarver's situation analogous to Sanders? As one of the obvious differences between athletes contracts and broadcasters contracts, many, many baseball TV broadcasters announce fewer than the full schedule of games; it is a common thing for their contracts to stipulate something fewer than 162 games.

Sanders sacrificed playing time from his team during the postseason (in what are arguably the most important games of the season) so that he could play football on the same day. His absence could have had an effect on his team's ability to win that particular day.

I don't normally follow football, and Sherman is exactly the kind of assclown that I roll my eyes at...but I guess there was "U mad bro?" dust-up between him and Brady earlier in the year and Sherman was on the NFL show wearing a silver bow-tie(?) and said , "The Brady you see after the game is much different from the Brady during the game"

So ever since then, he gets a complete pass from me. Seems like an intelligent guy.

i really REALLY don't understand why so many fans DEMAND the stupid idiotic blah bull durham lines from ballplayers and the pretense that they are Umble

Pure jealousy, I assume. They want the players to act like they're lucky to be where they are because they think it's lucky to be paid big money to play a sport. That's completely stupid, of course, because it's the fans' obsession with the sport that makes playing the sport so lucrative in the first place.

add me to the list of people who enjoy hearing things like this in the heat of the moment. I want my athletes to be passionate! I woke up at dark-thirty to watch Wawrinki-Djokovic and one of my favorite things about tennis is how honest the top players are with their feelings during huge, long matches. Baseball players whining about hurt feelings and respect is the thing that turns me off the most about MLB. "You hit a HR and showed me up, so I'm going to hit you with a 95 mph fastball. Take that, you big mean man!"

They want the players to act like they're lucky to be where they are because they think it's lucky to be paid big money to play a sport.

yeah people who think it's a genetic lottery need to get a clue . . . maybe the same people who complain about these kinds of post-game comments are the same ones who whine that people who have dedicated their lives to playing a sport at the very highest level "don't care" and are "in it for the money." Obviously Sherman cares about more than his paycheck!

I don't bregrudge anyone who is at the highest level from thinking and acknowledging that they're the best. I'm sure many of us here know from personal experience how hard people have to work to get to the top of any field. Not that I've done it, but I know people who have . . . and they don't spend much time sitting around the bonfire with me on weekends, because they're too committed to success. It's not for me but I sure as hell respect their choice and dedication.

what exactly is it you want them to say - you want a nice bland monotone like jeter? i had to listen to boring, bland, blah. monotone stuff from biggio/bagwell for years - blah. not sure why it is worth the waste of time to "interview"

There is a middle ground between saying nothing and acting like a jackass. It's actually a pretty wide gulf.

Uh, seriously, that's the entirety of what you saw? C'mon.

Yes, the league's biggest trash talker ran across the end zone, before the game ended, and patted his vanquished opponent on the ass as the ultimate a sign of respect after a hard-fought game. What else could have been on his mind?

I saw a lot of jawing between the two. I know that the 49'er receivers are some of the chippiest, talkiest, full of shittiest players in the league. I know Michael Crabtree has a well-worn reputation for being one of the worst guys about that this side of, well, Anquan Boldin I guess. I saw Richard Sherman win the NFC Championship by being a better, smarter, more talented football player than Crabtree. Then I saw Crabtree refuse a handshake at the end.

It's football in the NFL. I don't expect Robert's Rules of Order or Miss Manners etiquette. I don't like Sherman's act, but he doesn't stand apart from the rest of a league of "Superman" TD celebrations and "Kaepernicking" in the end zone. And to repeat the obvious point, if there's a single entity I would trust, on their word, as to who was or was not a top tier receiver in the NFL, it would be Richard Sherman. It would be the all-pro guy that guards the best of the best on an island every week. Listen to him talk about Wes Welker's route running. Listen to him talk about trying to guard guys like Calvin Johnson or Bebe Thomas. Listen to him discuss receivers who are better, but have worse QBs. If I'm taking anyone's word on the matter, it's Richard Sherman's. The guy talks a jackass game, but he's the best there is at what he does.

Pure jealousy, I assume. They want the players to act like they're lucky to be where they are because they think it's lucky to be paid big money to play a sport. That's completely stupid, of course, because it's the fans' obsession with the sport that makes playing the sport so lucrative in the first place.

I don't really have a problem with Sherman saying he's the best in the game after he just made an incredible game-winning play demonstrating why he very well may be the best. Putting down Crabtree (and then doing it again in his article) was unnecessary, however.

There are a number of reasons why we like to see players exhibit good sportsmanship. Most of us don't want players brawling on or off the field, for example. If you've ever had to have a police escort to the subway after a high school football game you'll know why it's good to keep things from getting too heated or personal. Also, we like to see humility because humility is often warranted. There's a pretty short list of guys who can justifiably make the type of comments that Richard Sherman did, but the list of players who *think* they can is much longer. It would be silly to have guys proclaiming they're the best in the world one week and then getting lit up the following week on a regular basis.

It was a soliloquy of triumph normally associated with the gentleman’s pursuit known as “professional wrestling,” which led some to wring hands over the matter on media sociale.

This misses the point. Pro wrestlers talk trash to push the emotional buttons of people in the audience. It's a performance -- they're not actually angry, they're feeding the audience's desire to talk back to powerful people and back up their words with their fists. Pro Football players do this kind of stuff to push their own emotional buttons. They're actually angry, but the anger isn't about anything.

Joe Posnanski wrote a column making excuses for someone's bad behavior? JOE POSNANSKI? Well I never!

Yeah, that was shocking.

As I said in the other thread, Sherman is mentally instable for believing that it's an "insult" when quarterbacks throw to players he's covering because, in his world, quarterbacks who do this aren't respecting his abilities. And we shouldn't make fun of people like that -- we should get them help.

It's football in the NFL. I don't expect Robert's Rules of Order or Miss Manners etiquette.

Well, you could expect that -- or at least a modicum of sportsmanship and respect for one's foe, but instead people have insisted that sports are just entertainment. The natural denouement of that insistence is WWE-esque rhetoric and behavior.

And so that's what we see.

Sherman's genius is that he gets it and can play it both ways (*), which is why people who understand these things expected him to be an intelligent and respectful post-game interview, which is precisely what he was. As noted upthread, he's trolling Whitey.(**) And now Whitey's all befuddled.

As I said in the other thread, Sherman is mentally instable for believing that it's an "insult" when quarterbacks throw to players he's covering because, in his world, quarterbacks who do this aren't respecting his abilities. And we shouldn't make fun of people like that -- we should get them help.

He "believes" no such thing.

He's playing to you, by the way -- the type of guy who wants a bunch of roiding "entertainers" titillating the masses in the seats of the nation's professional baseball stadiums. You created him, and he is you.

Sure he does. Tom Brady, for example, was trying to play a football game and complete passes to receivers, some of whom were covered by Sherman, and Sherman took umbrage with it:

In the 2012 loss, Brady was intercepted twice, including one by Sherman, who chased Brady down on the field after the game to give him a piece of his mind. New England held a 23-10 lead in the game but two second-half picks by Brady doomed the Pats.

After the game, Sherman — who admitted to talking smack to Brady all game — tweeted a photo of himself jawing at Brady, with the words “U MAD BRO?” written on the image.

“I kept saying I’m going to get that next time. Every TV timeout, I went up and said it right to (Brady): ‘Please keep trying me. I’m going to take it from you.’ That was when they were winning,” Sherman told the Tacoma News Tribune after that game. “He just gave me that look and said, ‘Oh, I’ll see you after game.’ Well, I made sure I saw him after the game.”

Despite what I wrote in #75, I don't think Sherman's outburst was surprising or that big a deal. Given how amped up these guys must be on every play to perform at the level that they do, I'm honestly surprised we don't see those kind of commnets more often.

Given how amped up these guys must be on every play to perform at the level that they do, I'm honestly surprised we don't see those kind of commnets more often.

The fact that we've never really seen them before pretty much tells us they were an act. (Which isn't to say Sherman didn't do a top-grade job of Method Acting. He was certainly in character, but in character is what he was.)

NFL football players have been making game-saving and game-changing plays in playoff games for literally decades and been interviewed right after playoff games for literally decades. It's only recently that such things have served as fodder for self-regarding ululations, gesticulations, and hyperventilations.

Only in Whitey Town is an obviously intelligent Stanford grad "insane" because of a five-second staged rant, while bragging about throwing a baseball 95 MPH at an intelligent Stanford grad's head just because is the very measure of a man.

The idea also is that behavior such as Sherman's makes everybody crazy, which in the end takes away from the game because they're pushing each other, fighting, etc., and it becomes a disciplinary issue. I don't think we want more personal fouls in the NFL, which are often major game/drive-flippers, and which often have nothing to do with what actually went on in the play. More of them is bad, and allowing players to get personal with each other like that leads to more off-the-ball stuff determining how the game goes.

The other thought is that it always comes around, and one of these days you (Sherman, in this instance, or fans of Sherman, or Seahawks fans, etc.) are going to be on the other side of the ball, and you aren't going to like it much when your opponent does the same back to you. In fact, Sherman seems like exactly the kind of guy who would go ballistic if someone treated him the way he treated Brady, Crabtree, etc. That's why they say "act like you've been there" - because one of these days you won't be.

I don't think Sherman's insane, and he's clearly very intelligent, but likewise I don't think he was trolling or his actions were "staged". Both of those imply he has emotional distance from his actions and that's it's all some kind of performance art, that he has control over it. As Zack said, Sherman's the exact opposite - it's not about emotional distance or performance art, he actually is angry. I don't think he had much control over what he was saying - he was furious and responded emotionally. It's funny ha ha right now when it doesn't really matter, but that kind of anger is rarely productive in the long run and at some point always flips and bites you in a way you don't want to be bitten.

EDIT: to add, given my experience of the guys I was watching the game with who actually know Sherman, the guy we saw in that interview is who he (often) is. Who thinks that kind of anger is a good thing?

to add, given my experience of the guys I was watching the game with who actually know Sherman, the guy we saw in that interview is who he (often) is. Who thinks that kind of anger is a good thing?

I always hesitate when people say the black guy is the "angry" one.

A generation ago, I lived in the football players' dorm at a major football power and played IM sports with a bunch of football players and I can't remember a single black guy being remotely "angry." Far and away the most angry of any football player was a white countryish D-lineman who was an All-American his senior year. (And way up on the list was none other than the current head coach of the San Francisco 49ers. Sherman would have to be plenty "angry" to top his Stanford coach in his early 20s.)

I find such bombast distasteful when it come from legitimate combat athletes who physically dominate and cow their opposition into submission. To hear it from a guy who just performed the amazing feat of preventing another man from catching a ball doesn't even register on my outrage meter. He's a bigger Steve Bartman. Dance for me, clown!

You're claiming he didn't come off as angry in that interview? Really?

Yes, that's what I'm claiming. I've said it four or five times now.

I don't deny that he came off as "angry" to Whitey, but that (obviously) isn't enough for him to have actually come off as angry.

Five seconds after Erin Andrews signed off, you knew Whitey's drawers would be up his asscrack for days on end and you also knew Sherman would be intellgent and "cooled off" in his real postgame interviews -- and look what happened.