In terms of the MCSA properties:
Check out the nice new MCSA magalies website.
Mhlabatini, Boulderkloof and Tonquani for example are their properties (http://www.mcsamagalies.co.za/index.php ... mhlabatini) and it takes a load of money, time and effort to maintain them and access to them.
Hopefully some private owners like the idea, otherwise attend the MCSA Magaliesberg AGM

"Rittner's Computer Law: Never argue with people who write with digital ink and pay by the kilowatt-hour."

which is the updated version of:

"Do not argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level and beat you with experience."

Ebert, you have set the bar so low that it is pure insanity replying to your post. You lost me when you attacked me for asking you a straight question way back whenever. Since then no single comment of yours to anyone have suggested that my first encounter with you was a misunderstanding or a once off occurrence.

Eat $#!( and die as far as I'm concerned.

It genuinely pains me that my contribution to the MCSA and / or bolting funds ever may / have landed in your hands. I don't mind contributing to things I may never be able to do myself, but I really don't like funding a$$)oles.

Awesome initiative, Ebert! After the disappointment of Hidden kloof and the enormous potential in the Magaliesberg, I am very motivated to support this venture. There has to be another Fern and Hidden out there to add to the sport climbing experience of Gauteng.

I must say I am disappointed. I realise we may have insulted you Ebert and I apologise. I still think that you have misunderstood the MCSA and the people you have dealt with. I may have been insulting but the MCSA are much nicer people!

Having said that - and I am sorry that you are so upset as to take this course of action, some recommendations;

1. It would be best to look at entirely new crags and not try and "poach" ones with existing access conditions. Somewhere like Dome is accessed across MCSA land and hopefully the landowners are well enough educated to not want some stranger coming and bolting a place that needs no bolts. My point being that new places that are entirely owned by one owner who is pro your bolted sport climbs ethic for cash will be a much better option.

2. There are climbers out there who can help you distinguish what crags are good for sport and what crags are good for trad. This is a practical as well as ethical issue - for instance no normal sport climbers will hike several km's in for a grade 30. Now if you are only bolting these routes for yourself with your own money and the landowners permission I am sure you will have a lot of fun - but maybe not much popular support (not that I think you care).

3. There is definitely room for more sport crags out there and maybe you can open up some previously unaccessed private properties which could be good for the climbing community. I would caution that there is some room for misunderstanding as to what your objectives are -is your goal for grade 30 type climbs for an exclusive few? Then your funders and approach should be aligned. If however it is for more quality climbing for everyone that is a different thing - so the idea of a beginners crag is not the same as finding more fern and narrow kloofs.

4.Now for the real question - who in their right mind would give you MCSA information when you are clearly aiming at disrupting the carefully arranged access conditions for your own ends? Such a shortsighted selfish pursuit would never be supported by anyone who respects all the other climbers rights!
Back to my original point number 1 - you want to find new places go ahead and do it - but please don't violate all the other climbers access just to suite your own personal agenda.

I suspect that this is all blown out of proportion and I would recommend that you go chat to some of the climbers you respect before undertaking such a divisive action. You may not like all the other climbers but this will certainly alienate you in a nasty and unhelpful way.

By all means go and find new exciting sport climbing areas that have climbs to your grade and choice, but please leave the established access areas alone! And if you trespass somewhere like Groblerskloof please realise you will be treated as a trespasser and disowned by most climbers who realise that antagonising landowners is not the way to get access.

Last edited by Old Smelly on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The Glenburn Lodge rock looks better than it is - maybe chat to Neil Margetts about it before you spend too much time on it.

I really advise that you chat to someone in the climbing community that you respect before embarking on this quest - even if just to get focus as to what your objectives are - that way you may get popular support for a positive initiative instead of what looks like a crazed personal vendetta.

Last edited by Old Smelly on Fri Nov 06, 2015 4:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Oh and I don't think the administrator will edit other people's submissions at your say so - this is a forum and as such should not be censored by the contributors such as yourself. You don't own the thread and it will be incredibly immature of you to think that you can control other people's contributions, let alone their inputs in response to your comments Ebert.

@Old Smelly: By this time next year I will have gained funds to open a club named MCZA (Mountain Climbers South Africa, dont think that I'm joking because I'll do it just to spite your club of cynical dicks) for people that actually climb. Please stop posting on my threads as you are a negative old fart . I am no longer trying to annoy people with senseless bickering on your level, I'm into doing stuff that makes a difference that will annoy people on your level. Just leave me alone, I know how to respect farm/land owners. You disrespect your family name/club name by insulting kids half your age that are learning things you havent ever bothered to learn. Yes, i was young and said some irresponsible/crude/insulting things (that i regret and apologize profusely for), but for flyingbucketsoffishscales can you please LEARN TO GROW UP

Additionally, if im stuck in PTA December, then I'm going to walk the entire length of the magaliesberg between Chosspile and rustenburg and ask every farm owner at a kloof for access myself. I'll note that I've never heard of MCSA when the name comes up.

I will now restart this forum post, with all the updated information and please, if you want to learn something from me today, grow up and dont comment again, I want to bolt a sport crag and I wont have your negative Nancy attitude getting in the way.

Last edited by Forket on Sat Nov 07, 2015 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

I'd take a troll over a bully any day of the week. Ebert probably shouldn't have repeated everything but killing all his posts... he's trying to improve his attitude but you dudes don't make it any easier by not giving him a chance

Ebert I must say I don't really think I have insulted you - and if I have I have apologised. Also though you claim you are trying to not be offensive or argumentative you then go on to insult or attack me personally when you have no knowledge as to who or what I am and whether I do indeed belong to the Mountain Club. I do agree that you are and do behave like a child and that this shows when you treat my requests to behave in a more mature way by attacking me personally. None of my posts have been childish or ill considered though I assert the same can not be said for yours.

I do believe this is an open forum. If you are allowed to publish such aggressive and negative nonsense then you surely cannot try and censor everyone's responses. I do worry that there may be some who are misguided enough to put money in the hands of such a divisive person as you without due consideration as to what damage this approach can have to the climbing community. CLEARLY YOU ONLY WISH FOR REVENGE on someone or some entity and none of your actions are as erudite as you claim - you are not doing this for the climbing community but for your own petty agenda.

I recommend that those who read this look past Eberts claims once again to the core of this issue which is his own bitterness. Ebert your own childish attacks on everyone who comments on this forum are your own greatest enemy - they tear down any of your claims that your goal is to improve the lot of climbers in general.

I for one would have supported the locating and private funding of a new sport crag (and said as much), however I do not believe that this is truly Ebert's agenda.

Quite frankly Ebert I suggest that you still do what I advised- go talk to a climber that you respect about what you are doing - because this is not a good way to go...seriously...