Do you honestly think 99% of viewers even noticed or cared about the physics issues of the Enterprise falling to Earth or whether other Starfleet ships came out to fight?

Click to expand...

The physics? No. But a 1 on 1 ship battle right on Earth's doorstep without any intervention from StarFleet is a pretty big plothole. Especially after the entire movie is spent telling us how Earth is gearing up for war with the Klingons and that should include some defense for your home planet.

Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.

Click to expand...

You hold all the other Trek films, TV shows, books, etc. that employ the same dramatic tactic (which is all that is) to the same high standard, right? Because, if so, that's a lot of Trek history --including some great films, episodes, and novels-- that you've just labeled as having an unrecoverable flaw.

I know the usual suspects are now going to whine about how they should be able to complain about a flaw in STiD without having to compare it to examples of the same flaws in prior Trek and blah blah blah, but I don't care.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you're jumping to the conclusion that because I pointed out a flaw in the film that I therefore consider that flaw an unrecoverable flaw that ruins the film. Yes, the "only ship in range" flaw exists in quite a bit of prior Trek and I'm not giving those shows a free pass. Nor am I claiming that this flaw ruins the film. Take my post at face value and don't read so much into it. I had problems with the film, but I rather liked Into Darkness.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.

Click to expand...

Uh, no. People complained about that flaw quite a bit in Generations, TMP, Best of Both Worlds, and lots more. Stop treating everyone who points out a flaw in this film as an obsessed nerd who holds the rest of Star Trek up on a pedestal. As I said to Locutus, stop reading so much into each individual post and take people at face value.

Uh, no. People complained about that flaw quite a bit in Generations, TMP, Best of Both Worlds, and lots more. Stop treating everyone who points out a flaw in this film as an obsessed nerd who holds the rest of Star Trek up on a pedestal. As I said to Locutus, stop reading so much into each individual post and take people at face value.

I'm not sure why you're jumping to the conclusion that because I pointed out a flaw in the film that I therefore consider that flaw an unrecoverable flaw that ruins the film. Yes, the "only ship in range" flaw exists in quite a bit of prior Trek and I'm not giving those shows a free pass. Nor am I claiming that this flaw ruins the film. Take my post at face value and don't read so much into it. I had problems with the film, but I rather liked Into Darkness.

Click to expand...

Well, the comments from this and the Orci thread below didn't exactly seem like glowing reviews, so I inferred that you weren't the biggest fan. However, I only mentioned that you seemed to consider these particular flaws a major issue, possibly a dealbreaker, not that you didn't enjoy anything about the films.

So what you're saying is that Abrams' Trek films aren't broken because you like them? Perhaps some of us don't feel that they reached their goal of being "exciting action-adventure movies" and thus claim they're broken films because they didn't achieve their goal?

Yes, because whether or not a franchise is broken is an opinion. Star Trek from a financial point of view obviously isn't broken (not as great as hoped for, but definitely not broken), but from a creative point of view it is to certain people.

1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.

Click to expand...

Marcus could have also already had the Enterprise and Kirk flagged as rogues. Sends the rest of the fleet on a wild goose chase to find them while he goes to deal with it personally.

1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.

Click to expand...

Marcus could have also already had the Enterprise and Kirk flagged as rogues. Sends the rest of the fleet on a wild goose chase to find them while he goes to deal with it personally.

Hey, I liked this movie a lot. My girlfriend, not so much. Too much violence. My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes. I understand this and I've got some more issues like...
1. Vengeance too developed compared to Starfleet's flagship
2. Khan slaughtering dozens of Klingons without being hit once
3. Big bad ship, once again
4. Too much comic influence

Hey, I liked this movie a lot. My girlfriend, not so much. Too much violence. My brother, nope. Didn't like the men in the torpedoes. I understand this and I've got some more issues like...
1. Vengeance too developed compared to Starfleet's flagship
2. Khan slaughtering dozens of Klingons without being hit once
3. Big bad ship, once again
4. Too much comic influence

Star Trek has always had a problem with depicting scale when it comes to space. Especially when it comes to space battles. Truth is, if they did it "accurately", it'd be pretty fucking boring cause the ships wouldn't even be in visual range of each other, much less as close as they get in the movies and shows.

Do you honestly think 99% of viewers even noticed or cared about the physics issues of the Enterprise falling to Earth or whether other Starfleet ships came out to fight?

Click to expand...

The physics? No. But a 1 on 1 ship battle right on Earth's doorstep without any intervention from StarFleet is a pretty big plothole. Especially after the entire movie is spent telling us how Earth is gearing up for war with the Klingons and that should include some defense for your home planet.

Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.

Click to expand...

It's a bit of a Trek staple.

* TMP, Enterprise only ship in range of an attacker that's a couple days from Earth.

* TSFS, Kirk steals the Enterprise and Excelsior is the only ship that tries to run her down. No system patrol ships? No other starships hanging around that could have gave chase. It was pretty clear where Kirk was going, there should have been a half dozen ships dropping out of warp behind him. Hell, the amount of time it took them to hack the spacedoors, there should have been a couple ships waiting.

* GEN, Enterprise B is the only ship in range of the ships in distress.

Click to expand...

Hell during all of The Wrath Of Khan I was asking where the rest of the fleet was.