cboard.cprogramming.com is listed #7 on list of sites/forums that actively support "contract cheating". Which term you can google for lots of examples.

Robert Clarke, Thomas Lancaster and (I believe) Sandi Kirkham publish and update this list. If I understand correctly, the list is used to aid in searching for cheating, and the list is actively circulated.

I think the cboards are a good forum - Maybe one of the mods here can contact Robert Clarke et al. And see if a rule change here is enforceable or even worth the effort.

05-19-2009

twomers

Well, it lists blogsearch... which is a search engine. How can that be contract cheating? That'd surely be means of getting answers. And it doesn't list google codesearch. I think the list needs to define what it's listing better.

05-19-2009

laserlight

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

cboard.cprogramming.com is listed #7 on list of sites/forums that actively support "contract cheating".

The heading of that list reads "List of sites associated with 'contract cheating'". What does "associated" mean? If we interpret it to mean "actively support contract cheating", then that list is incorrect, since the homework guidelines strongly discourage members from doing other people's homework.

If we interpret it to mean "support contract cheating", then including cboard on that list is reasonable: a student can use PMs to form a contract with some member to complete the student's homework, and PMs are not monitored. (Or so we would like you to believe :p)

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

If I understand correctly, the list is used to aid in searching for cheating, and the list is actively circulated.

If you are talking about cheating in general, then that is fine. It certainly is the case that students attempt to use cboard to cheat, and they may succeed. It is to our advantage for such students to get punished for cheating as we can then help those who really take the effort to learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

Maybe one of the mods here can contact Robert Clarke et al. And see if a rule change here is enforceable or even worth the effort.

This list is hilarious. By contract cheating, I assume people are getting paid for doing others homework. While that is not impossible here through collusion, we ranked 110 spots higher than rentacoder.

05-19-2009

laserlight

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiteflags

we ranked 110 spots higher than rentacoder.

Actually, that list is in alphabetical order according to URL.

05-19-2009

brewbuck

Yawn. I can't imagine something I care less about.

05-19-2009

jim mcnamara

I'm not suggesting anything. I am a mod on another site -we are being removed from the list because we demonstrated that we have always actively blocked homework and have a zero tolerance for it.

My point is that being on a list like that is probably not a winning strategy for any forum.

Why not? If the point is to deter students from using this as a place to ask to be spoonfed homework answers, I'd say bring it on. I would be happy to know that instructors are looking through these forums to police against cheating.

05-19-2009

matsp

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

I'm not suggesting anything. I am a mod on another site -we are being removed from the list because we demonstrated that we have always actively blocked homework and have a zero tolerance for it.

My point is that being on a list like that is probably not a winning strategy for any forum.

Can you explain what is wrong in that particular thread? I certainly haven't told the OP what he should do - other than correct the indentation and explain some suspicious looking lines of code. And I don't think anyone else has either, but I haven't actually looked at it the last few minutes.

There is a big difference between HELPING someone to solve the problem on their own, and solving the problem FOR them. Clearly, the latter is wrong, and whilst it may not be actively policed, it is certainly frowned upon.

--
Mats

05-19-2009

brewbuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim mcnamara

I'm not suggesting anything. I am a mod on another site -we are being removed from the list because we demonstrated that we have always actively blocked homework and have a zero tolerance for it.

I read kermi3's homework post. It doesn't appear to be enforced....

There's no ban on discussing homework here. The homework policy, if I can boil it down, is simply that the student needs to write the code him/herself, and we will comment on it and help work through issues. Occassionally, some bonehead posts an entire solution and is appropriately scolded.

You know, like in the real world where people can use their mouths to speak with each other?

If receiving this sort of help goes against the policies of the instructor, then it seems there is a problem between the instructor and the student which needs to be addressed. I'm not particularly interested in enforcing or even learning about policies which have nothing to do with me.

Quote:

My point is that being on a list like that is probably not a winning strategy for any forum.

In what sense? Anybody can make any sort of list they like.

05-19-2009

MK27

I went to university, I loved it, and I would never trash the concept, but a formal institution should not never, never be touted as the only place to learn*. These people obviously would prefer to restrict everyone's educational opportunities and have not given any thought to the potential consequences of their witch hunt. The idea that cboard is some kind of hotspot where kids come to pay for an essay or assignment or whatever is beyond ridiculous. Anyone who wants to spend ten minutes looking around will figure that out.

You might as well throw your mind in the garbage as take this tish seriously. And I bet most professors would agree with what I am saying. But there are crackpots in academia -- perhaps these busybodies are some of them? Surely their (paid) time would be better spent in more serious pursuits (unless they are the kind of academics not taken seriously by their peers, and so are left with nothing better to do).

Cboard is a great resource. Not *everyone* learning here is a college student, and not everyone who comes here looking for advice, or flat out answers and solutions, is a CS 101 student in disguise. If a university (or all the universities) want to provide all the funding, staff, and other resources, then they can call all the shots, and hopefully try and make up for the corresponding harm done to the education of people who aren't in university (like, we can't discuss programming on the web now without being overseen by a board of regents?). In all honesty, if anything like that comes to pass I WILL SUE EVERYONE INVOLVED IN A COURT OF LAW. But I presume/hope that is not the real intent (although it's hard to say what the purpose of the list is otherwise...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by brewbuck

Occassionally, some bonehead posts an entire solution and is appropriately scolded.

I've had this happen more than once and I still don't care and don't agree with your premises or your interpretation. I do understand why the moderators should not make it a practice. You know what would really ruin the board -- forcing the moderators to tell people they have crossed the line by divulging too much information about c programming, on an advice forum for c programmers. I've never been offered for money** and usually ignore (that kind of) pm because I don't see a need for secrecy.

* I also would never deny that it was a tremendous privilege to go to school, and that universities are undeniably places of privilege. This is flat out disgusting, elitist crap and I also honestly hope they carpool off a bridge somewhere. Scum.
** now that would be funny

05-19-2009

indigo0086

>>In what sense? Anybody can make any sort of list they like.

That's what I was thinking, this is an arbitrary list with over a hundred forums related to programming. If you were to ask me I could guess that there are less than 30 or less well populated programming communities on the web.

Where's the proof, the research, the data on why and how these sites are the top at contract cheating.

05-19-2009

brewbuck

I've heard it argued that the rampant cheating in CS devalues the meaning of the CS degree for those who actually worked hard for it.

Well, that may be true, but so what? CS isn't special in terms of student cheating. Perhaps it's easier to see, and quantify, the amount of cheating. In these Google days, any professor or instructor can go Google a few choice phrases from a student paper and instantly detect plagiarism.

"Ack! Plagiarism and cheating are on the rise, and Google proves it!"

Uh, no. That's always been the case. We just couldn't see it before we had Google.

So suppose the value of the CS degree is so hindered that nobody takes it seriously anymore, and just bases their hiring decisions on pure merit. Fine with me.

I went to school to study, not get a degree.

05-19-2009

brewbuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigo0086

Where's the proof, the research, the data on why and how these sites are the top at contract cheating.

Even if there was "contract" cheating happening here, how would we know? People don't normally conduct that kind of business in the open. I'd bet that if you reviewed the last three years of comments, you would not see a single deal being closed here to exchange code for money. I certainly can't think of one.

05-19-2009

SlyMaelstrom

I don't really know what this list means to us... I don't see any problem with teachers snooping around this site to try and pin out people from their class looking for solutions. In fact, I support the idea. However, if one of their students does genuinely come here without doing any work asking for a handout all the teacher will find is a series or replies either flaming the OP or simply directing them to the homework guidelines topic. So, the teacher is happy having caught his/her student, the board is exonerated of any "contract cheating" libel, in at least one teacher's eyes, and the student gets his just deserts.