I've just done the same thing and I think some more small ajustments should be made. [[User:Vasstar|Vasstar]] 14:48, August 3, 2008 (UTC)

I've just done the same thing and I think some more small ajustments should be made. [[User:Vasstar|Vasstar]] 14:48, August 3, 2008 (UTC)

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== Deleting the "differences between" section ==

+

== Deleting the "differences between" section (Dec. 2008)==

I took the liberty to delete almost everything of the "differences between..." section. It repeats many differences which are already mentioned below and is therefore clearly superfluous. Besides, some mentioned differences are very much questionable; in Russia all golovshiki of priestist Old Believers, for instance, use a baton when conducting the choir, so this is not only common for new style orthodoxy. I also don't see the point in mentioning characteristics of new style orthodoxy, being them just the opposite of what Old Believers are practising. Another objection is that the formulation is often obviously not NPOV.

I took the liberty to delete almost everything of the "differences between..." section. It repeats many differences which are already mentioned below and is therefore clearly superfluous. Besides, some mentioned differences are very much questionable; in Russia all golovshiki of priestist Old Believers, for instance, use a baton when conducting the choir, so this is not only common for new style orthodoxy. I also don't see the point in mentioning characteristics of new style orthodoxy, being them just the opposite of what Old Believers are practising. Another objection is that the formulation is often obviously not NPOV.

Revision as of 08:59, December 7, 2008

If they're more properly known as Old Ritualists, shouldn't that be the title of the page, with Old Believers getting a redirect? --magda 21:38, 15 Apr 2005 (CDT)

Well, "Old Believers" is the most usual name in English, and it's how they're listed in printed encyclopedias. "Old Ritualists" is the more literal translation of the Russian name (I believe). --Rdr. Andrew 22:02, 15 Apr 2005 (CDT)

Did Patriarch Nikon cause the schism as this article suggests? Perhaps this should be discussed much more.

Contents

Big revert

I strongly recommend reverting this article back to its state when it more resembled its source on Wikipedia. The massive rewrite that was done is both generally unencyclopedic and severely biased. —Fr. Andrewtalkcontribs 17:13, December 13, 2006 (PST)

Old beliver today

Old belivers have paralel hierarchy in Russia established in XIX century. I believe that sholud be aded to this article.

Major update

I've updated this article by replacing it with the (IMO, far superior) Wikipedia version (the source for the original version here), including various images and some editing on my part. —Fr. Andrewtalkcontribs 05:56, July 13, 2007 (PDT)

I've just done the same thing and I think some more small ajustments should be made. Vasstar 14:48, August 3, 2008 (UTC)

Deleting the "differences between" section (Dec. 2008)

I took the liberty to delete almost everything of the "differences between..." section. It repeats many differences which are already mentioned below and is therefore clearly superfluous. Besides, some mentioned differences are very much questionable; in Russia all golovshiki of priestist Old Believers, for instance, use a baton when conducting the choir, so this is not only common for new style orthodoxy. I also don't see the point in mentioning characteristics of new style orthodoxy, being them just the opposite of what Old Believers are practising. Another objection is that the formulation is often obviously not NPOV.

The main point, however, is that this article is about Old Believers, the Schism of 1666-67, the history and backgrounds of the Old Belief, etc. This is not an article about ritual and liturgical differences between Old- en New Ritualists. Furthermore, many described differences are extremely detailed and not always characteristic for Old Believers in general. Therefore, sections about these differences (apart from these sections quite a few differences actually are mentioned!) should in no case screen the main subject of the article.
Vasstar 16:57, December 7, 2008 (UTC)