Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Flight ET302 crashes 6 minutes after take off this morning. The same aircraft left OR Tambo at 23h35 last night and arrived safely in Addis Ababa this morning just after 5am Addis time. Was turned around for the Nairobi flight.

This same aircraft over ran the runway at Entebbe Airport in Uganda a few weeks ago.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Caracal

...Was turned around for the Nairobi flight...

What is this about?

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by ZuluCowboy

What is this about?

Meaning plane was cleaned and refueled for the flight to Nairobi. Usually called the “turn around” when a plane lands then made ready to fly to its next destination. Not a fundi, but heard the term used alot by pilots and crew members before

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

It could have been anything, although I'm sure there's a lot of speculation already. I hope the facts will be known soon.

Swambo and I have flown with them a few times. Whatever the case, we are likely fly back to SA with them in a few months time, mostly because we want to see the new airport, but also because of the level of service.

In Dec 2016 we landed late in Addis on route from Brussels to Johannesburg. Instead of shuttling us from the plane to the (old, cramped and slow) terminal, they bussed all passengers with connecting flights direct to the waiting planes, or we would have missed our onward flights. We watched our luggage in the little train thingy follow next to the bus. We arrived in JNB on time. Do things like this once and you score major points with passengers like us. I have to wonder how many airports/airlines would do this?

And yes, I think it's safe to say air travel is till one of the safest modes of transport. It might seem otherwise because of all the media attention plane crashes get.

A sure sign that there is in fact intelligent life elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has bothered contacting us.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

737 MAX. We will see what was the cause but vertical speed issues = Lion Air crash.

BBC said that they added this nose down software after making the plane longer and Boeing was worried about the stability. All speculation now. Hopefully they sort this out quickly. I have retired pilot/captain in the family. Spoken many times to him. Some of his colleagues point blank refused to fly "computer controlled" planes. "Wires" to the control surfaces Such doesn't work today.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Jouko

737 MAX. We will see what was the cause but vertical speed issues = Lion Air crash.

BBC said that they added this nose down software after making the plane longer and Boeing was worried about the stability. All speculation now. Hopefully they sort this out quickly. I have retired pilot/captain in the family. Spoken many times to him. Some of his colleagues point blank refused to fly "computer controlled" planes. "Wires" to the control surfaces Such doesn't work today.

Sorry to be the one to tell you that all commercial aircraft now operate on fly by wire technology. If a pilot will only fly cable controlled aircraft he will be flying 1960's vintage aircraft, most of which are operated by the very dodgy airlines. Old generation aircraft are banned from operating in most places due to noise abatement legislation. I'll be following the accident investigation on this one again as it's part of my job description to do accident investigation.

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Paul#25

Sorry to be the one to tell you that all commercial aircraft now operate on fly by wire technology. If a pilot will only fly cable controlled aircraft he will be flying 1960's vintage aircraft, most of which are operated by the very dodgy airlines. Old generation aircraft are banned from operating in most places due to noise abatement legislation. I'll be following the accident investigation on this one again as it's part of my job description to do accident investigation.

They'll also be walking to work, as most cars now have fly by wire accelerators.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Jouko

737 MAX. We will see what was the cause but vertical speed issues = Lion Air crash.

BBC said that they added this nose down software after making the plane longer and Boeing was worried about the stability. All speculation now. Hopefully they sort this out quickly. I have retired pilot/captain in the family. Spoken many times to him. Some of his colleagues point blank refused to fly "computer controlled" planes. "Wires" to the control surfaces Such doesn't work today.

What is called 'fly-by-wire' means, as I understand, ' fly-by-electroservo-controlled-control-surface-movements' ie. 'fly by electric wire'-not 'fly by wire-rope/cable controlled surfaces'

The controversial issue among pilots is regarding the degrees of autonomy these electronic controls excercise -ie. is the pilot actually able to override the computer controlled inputs, or does the computer finally decide on inputs to control surfaces.

I would guess that most-if not all, commercial regional/long-haul aircraft nowadays have some level of fly-by-wire controls - physical wire rope/cables to control surfaces would be limited to smaller/much older aircraft.

It seems the MCAS system necessity( technically detailed in link below) -was primarily as a result of the dynamic changes to flight characteristics caused by the introduction of a new engine in the upgraded model 737, thus new nacelle + positioning on wing of engine, thus altered the lift characteristics and control surfaces reactions.

Essentially-the new engine design/details caused the traditional 737 to develop a nose-up bias compared to older generation 737 with traditional engine nacelle/positioning -the MCAS was supposed to 'assist' the pilot by autonomously 'correcting' the pitch angle ( by adjusting elevator trim) if the nose-up attitude tended towards stall angle -except, the pilot had to manually override this system-by working the elevator trim tab manually ( by cranking a wheel/cable -not sure if this is a fly-by-wire, or mechanical control) pilot could NOT deactivate MCAS by using electric trim control

-this arrangement of override only by secondary control system, not primary and secondary- by would seem a bit illogical to me -if I were Boeing/FAA

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Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Paul#25

Sorry to be the one to tell you that all commercial aircraft now operate on fly by wire technology. If a pilot will only fly cable controlled aircraft he will be flying 1960's vintage aircraft, most of which are operated by the very dodgy airlines. Old generation aircraft are banned from operating in most places due to noise abatement legislation. I'll be following the accident investigation on this one again as it's part of my job description to do accident investigation.

Sorry but that is not true, the 737 does not have fly by wire, the 737Max have fly by wire flight spoilers., the rest of the flight controls still conventional.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Paul#25

Sorry to be the one to tell you that all commercial aircraft now operate on fly by wire technology. If a pilot will only fly cable controlled aircraft he will be flying 1960's vintage aircraft, most of which are operated by the very dodgy airlines. Old generation aircraft are banned from operating in most places due to noise abatement legislation. I'll be following the accident investigation on this one again as it's part of my job description to do accident investigation.

Sorry to tell you that there are still quite a few commercial aircraft or airliner around with conventional controls, the B737 being one of them, even the Max series.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

Originally Posted by Paul#25

Sorry to be the one to tell you that all commercial aircraft now operate on fly by wire technology. If a pilot will only fly cable controlled aircraft he will be flying 1960's vintage aircraft, most of which are operated by the very dodgy airlines. Old generation aircraft are banned from operating in most places due to noise abatement legislation. I'll be following the accident investigation on this one again as it's part of my job description to do accident investigation.

Yup first flight 1967 for the original 737. Even the the design shares much commonality with the 707 from ‘57. Vintage indeed. Some of the switches and panels are the same as its predecessorS. Controls are definitely cable controlled. Just not the spoilers on the MAX.

Ethiopian Airlines Crash

What is called 'fly-by-wire' means, as I understand, ' fly-by-electroservo-controlled-control-surface-movements' ie. 'fly by electric wire'-not 'fly by wire-rope/cable controlled surfaces'

The controversial issue among pilots is regarding the degrees of autonomy these electronic controls excercise -ie. is the pilot actually able to override the computer controlled inputs, or does the computer finally decide on inputs to control surfaces.

I would guess that most-if not all, commercial regional/long-haul aircraft nowadays have some level of fly-by-wire controls - physical wire rope/cables to control surfaces would be limited to smaller/much older aircraft.

Fly by wire means there is no mechanical link anymore between the controls in the cockpit and the control surface.
The control input from the pilot is converted into an electrical signal, in some cases digital, in others analogue and then again converted into a control surface deflection at the control surfaces.

Depending on the system / aircraft manufacturer, those pilot inputs are more or less augmented by flight computers under normal conditions, e.g. in order to prevent inputs which could lead to a stall, low speed condition, excessive bank, tail strike on take off, or similar undesirable flight conditions.

These augmentations can usually be “switched off” one way or the other.

Fly by wire airliners usually still have some mechanical or not augmented means of controlling pitch or nose up / down and directional control.

Re: Ethiopian Airlines Crash

I did word my comment poorly. These older pilots wanted to fly the plane and not the computer. Airline in question used to fly DC9 and DC10 plus their later MD series. Then airline changed to Airbus planes. I suspect Aibus was too much for them.

I might remember wrong but 737 may have 707 body parts so to say.

Hopefully they sort out this quickly. There are over 5000 planes on order.

Use of computers is an issue. It is not only planes but cars also. Computers in the cars override what the driver is doing. That program better be right. I am still trying to find a computer program that is right. Humans make also mistakes. Is it sufficient if the program is better than average pilot or driver?