DO your homework about drugs. and he is right.. Your stupid comments are not needed. Your the one throwing a sissy-fit about his opinion on Drug testing. That makes you the crybaby.

As for pot, it is non-addicting compared to legal drugs like sugar and caffeine. AT that it has been shown that sugar and caffeine are more harmful for you than marijuana. To drug test for Marijuana makes little sense.. because their is no long term side affects from it.
As long as their not smoking on the job pot it self would have no affect on the person work and quality.

I really hate taking such conversations but ok, maybe this time I became a flamebait.

I was expressing my very honest opinion about that he should stop crying and be happy that he got a job. And for some reason he didnt like the term.
Maybe Whining would be better since no one seemed to react when one of our mods wrote it.

Then he asked me if I think "that's fair". I got this picture in my head about two children and one of the children got more soda in his glass.

I don't mind drugs and I don't know how strict they are on drug testing in the US. But if that's what the company wants then so be it.
How strict we WANT them to be is a different thing and was probably what TS wanted to discuss.

Edit:
Maybe they wont even care if his test is positive for marijuana. Maybe it's just routine

I haven't tried pot before, but I really think that it will affect your job performance if your addicted, because your constantly wanting more. Besides, almost all drugs are bad that's a fact, no one should use drugs to get high even in their spare time

It's a Proven Scientific FACT that Marijuana does nothing but freeze brain cells. It doesn't kill them or nothing like the government wants us to believe.

Okay now on to the more important aspect to this whole thread. Yes a job is a job. no matter what your making. To those who think a job place has the right to hire and fire you for any reason. Your WRONG. Check your local and state laws. I live in a hire and fire at will state. there are not that many hire and fire at will states in the US but they are still there. Mostly all states have an EQUAL OPPROTUNITY ACT to where they can NOT discriminate you based on the LEGAL Drugs or Felonies. Although I do Know that Most Places will not hire you if you have a felony but there are some who do not care about you legal histories.

Oh and remember this. Tobacco was placed here on this planet in the form of a plant. How many of you Smoke Cigarettes? You know those kill more people per year than marijunana? Same Goes for Alcahol. And Alcahol is a legal drug.

So I'm willing to take it that you're against the testing?

As far as tobacco being here on the planet, thus making it natural for us to use it as we please like we use water to bathe, cook, etc.
I believe that discussion is mute. There are far more "natural" things on this planet that we shouldn't be using and yet, human nature begs to differ.

As far as the proven scientific fact you posted. Eh, even if it's proven and it's science. I still have the right to disagree and not care for it. Hell, science has said some things and brought about stuff that isn't beneficial to anything....

Am I for drug tests? Yes. Why? I simply don't believe that someone who is a user should be getting a paycheck over someone that needs it for necessities in life. I mean, how else are they buying these things? Do I feel kind any pity for a guy that's brilliant and has potential in whatever he/she seeks to be employed in and gets declined because of a drug test? Sort of. A person who has so much talent is being brought down because of their usage of drugs. But don't get me wrong, am I going to fight with them say it's an injustice? Hell no.

Despite the fact of a drug such as marijuana being harmless to one's own body, is irrelevant to the things it can bend those under it's influence to do. It is a hallucinogenic after all. It's going to throw you for a loop, and it's going to alter your state of mind.

As far as some of the others that say an employer has no right to dictate what you do in your own free time. That's a double-edged sword and it's extremely dangerous any and every way you swing it. Hell using that statement, you can bend it to say a guy that doesn't do drugs but is a sociopath and enjoys taking long walks on the beach while stalking people to kill later shouldn't be confined to anything because hell, that's their free time.

So, to end this long, long wall of text. Yes. I think it's right that drug tests exist. I think that employers have or should have the right to place them.

Let me address your paragraphs one by one, cause i am a little lost about your thought process.
For your first paragraph, what do you mean, "natural" things that we shouldn't be using? Are you talking about stuff like heroin or cocaine? If you are, all those other drugs are man made, using chemicals. Sure, their ingredients come from nature, but what thing on earth doesn't? You can't go out and find a heroin bush,
For your second paragraph, while you have the right to not care for it, if it's a proven fact, which you said it was, how can you disagree with it? That's like saying you disagree with water boiling at 212 F at sea level. It just is. And yes, science has brought about bad things...but that's because it's our main way of advancement as a civilization. You gotta take the good with the bad.
For your third paragraph, define "user" Like i've said before, it stays in your system for a long time, so the person may not be constantly buying drugs. They may have been pressured by friends to try it once. Does that mean they don't need money for necessities? Drug tests do not check your background, it's just "Yes" or "No"
For your fourth paragraph, you're right. That's why you don't use it while you're at work. But drug tests are for getting into the workplace, not checking up on the people in the workplace, so even if you don't plan to work in an altered state of mind, too bad, drug test says it's in your body.
For your last paragraph...um...that's a really far-fetched comparison. You're comparing a pot smoker to a criminally insane person who is killing people. While pot is still illegal, there's a huge difference between smoking a joint when you have a day off from work, and going down to the beach, stalking, and killing someone. That difference is your amount of jail time if your caught. The criminal justice system is something separate from your employers, so they kinda have more of a right to confine you then a privatized business.
All in all, you're entitled to your own opinion, but my question is where did you gain this negativity against people who use pot? Who says a pot smoker doesn't need money to live too? You say it can bend those under it's influence to do stuff, but have you every tried it and been "bent to do something under it's influence"? Most pot smokers are bent to get food cause they have cotton mouth and the munchies. Is that so wrong? Did your parents raise you to believe drugs are evil? I'm just curious.

nothing like heroine. Im refering to Tobacco mostly. we smoke that and it kills more people than marijuana. alcahol is man made yes. but its still considered a drug. and it kills more people than marijuana. heroine sure man made. kills more people. a thought process? beats me LoL....anyways if you read up on the drug deaths im sure everyone is well aware even employers that alcahol and tobacco users dies more faster and more so than the person who is smoking marijuana.

I haven't tried pot before, but I really think that it will affect your job performance if your addicted, because your constantly wanting more. Besides, almost all drugs are bad that's a fact, no one should use drugs to get high even in their spare time

Again showing no understanding of that what your talking about.

1. pot has no long term side affects.. so as long as you do not smoke at work, you not be high at work.

2. Marijuana is 10 times less addicting than both caffeine and sugar. So unless you can not seem to work because of sugar. I truely do not think you have to fear that from pure marijuana.

3. Marijuana has been shown to aid people with ADD & ADHD + other illnesses/disabilities.. Making it so they can function normally. In their cases I rather higher a pot smoker with ADHD over a person who does not smoke with ADHD. Because it has been proven marijuana aids them to function normal.

4. The only people who prophet of Marijuana right now are the Anti-drug groups working for America's Government, and the drug dealers. An it is costing us the people billions.

I haven't tried pot before, but I really think that it will affect your job performance if your addicted, because your constantly wanting more. Besides, almost all drugs are bad that's a fact, no one should use drugs to get high even in their spare time

Again showing no understanding of that what your talking about.

1. pot has no long term side affects.. so as long as you do not smoke at work, you not be high at work.

2. Marijuana is 10 times less addicting than both caffeine and sugar. So unless you can not seem to work because of sugar. I truely do not think you have to fear that from pure marijuana.

3. Marijuana has been shown to aid people with ADD & ADHD + other illnesses/disabilities.. Making it so they can function normally. In their cases I rather higher a pot smoker with ADHD over a person who does not smoke with ADHD. Because it has been proven marijuana aids them to function normal.

4. The only people who prophet of Marijuana right now are the Anti-drug groups working for America's Government, and the drug dealers. An it is costing us the people billions.

and this is the last piece of advice I will give ya. if you do NOT understand anything I have said THUS far I hate to say this but you will never understand anything more from me period about the effects of marijuana. so in otherwords there is no point in me saying anything more pertaining to this subject. have a nice day and hope you pass your drug test. because you obviously do realize anything I am saying is the EXACT same thing you are saying just in a more sophisticated method. and heres the fun factor can you guess anythig from my posts about me?

I haven't tried pot before, but I really think that it will affect your job performance if your addicted, because your constantly wanting more. Besides, almost all drugs are bad that's a fact, no one should use drugs to get high even in their spare time

Again showing no understanding of that what your talking about.

1. pot has no long term side affects.. so as long as you do not smoke at work, you not be high at work.

2. Marijuana is 10 times less addicting than both caffeine and sugar. So unless you can not seem to work because of sugar. I truely do not think you have to fear that from pure marijuana.

3. Marijuana has been shown to aid people with ADD & ADHD + other illnesses/disabilities.. Making it so they can function normally. In their cases I rather higher a pot smoker with ADHD over a person who does not smoke with ADHD. Because it has been proven marijuana aids them to function normal.

4. The only people who prophet of Marijuana right now are the Anti-drug groups working for America's Government, and the drug dealers. An it is costing us the people billions.

and this is the last piece of advice I will give ya. if you do NOT understand anything I have said THUS far I hate to say this but you will never understand anything more from me period about the effects of marijuana. so in otherwords there is no point in me saying anything more pertaining to this subject. have a nice day and hope you pass your drug test. because you obviously do realize anything I am saying is the EXACT same thing you are saying just in a more sophisticated method. and heres the fun factor can you guess anythig from my posts about me?

1. I am a scientist. Why am I not explaining it all in more detail? Because I am talking to 13 to 15 year olds right now, don't think I was talking to you.
2. Drug test? I have a job, I work in a lab creating smart metals. So buildings collapsing from the heat of burning jet fuel will not happen again.
3. I have worked along sides with some of the leading lab experts in the studies on Marijuana. So wen it comes to true understanding of this topic I might have a little advantage over say someone who goes off what they hear on some web page.
4. I don't think you fully understand the meaning behind my post and so I feel sorry for you.

It's a Proven Scientific FACT that Marijuana does nothing but freeze brain cells. It doesn't kill them or nothing like the government wants us to believe.

Okay now on to the more important aspect to this whole thread. Yes a job is a job. no matter what your making. To those who think a job place has the right to hire and fire you for any reason. Your WRONG. Check your local and state laws. I live in a hire and fire at will state. there are not that many hire and fire at will states in the US but they are still there. Mostly all states have an EQUAL OPPROTUNITY ACT to where they can NOT discriminate you based on the LEGAL Drugs or Felonies. Although I do Know that Most Places will not hire you if you have a felony but there are some who do not care about you legal histories.

Oh and remember this. Tobacco was placed here on this planet in the form of a plant. How many of you Smoke Cigarettes? You know those kill more people per year than marijunana? Same Goes for Alcahol. And Alcahol is a legal drug.

So I'm willing to take it that you're against the testing?

As far as tobacco being here on the planet, thus making it natural for us to use it as we please like we use water to bathe, cook, etc.
I believe that discussion is mute. There are far more "natural" things on this planet that we shouldn't be using and yet, human nature begs to differ.

As far as the proven scientific fact you posted. Eh, even if it's proven and it's science. I still have the right to disagree and not care for it. Hell, science has said some things and brought about stuff that isn't beneficial to anything....

Am I for drug tests? Yes. Why? I simply don't believe that someone who is a user should be getting a paycheck over someone that needs it for necessities in life. I mean, how else are they buying these things? Do I feel kind any pity for a guy that's brilliant and has potential in whatever he/she seeks to be employed in and gets declined because of a drug test? Sort of. A person who has so much talent is being brought down because of their usage of drugs. But don't get me wrong, am I going to fight with them say it's an injustice? Hell no.

Despite the fact of a drug such as marijuana being harmless to one's own body, is irrelevant to the things it can bend those under it's influence to do. It is a hallucinogenic after all. It's going to throw you for a loop, and it's going to alter your state of mind.

As far as some of the others that say an employer has no right to dictate what you do in your own free time. That's a double-edged sword and it's extremely dangerous any and every way you swing it. Hell using that statement, you can bend it to say a guy that doesn't do drugs but is a sociopath and enjoys taking long walks on the beach while stalking people to kill later shouldn't be confined to anything because hell, that's their free time.

So, to end this long, long wall of text. Yes. I think it's right that drug tests exist. I think that employers have or should have the right to place them.

Let me address your paragraphs one by one, cause i am a little lost about your thought process.
For your first paragraph, what do you mean, "natural" things that we shouldn't be using? Are you talking about stuff like heroin or cocaine? If you are, all those other drugs are man made, using chemicals. Sure, their ingredients come from nature, but what thing on earth doesn't? You can't go out and find a heroin bush,
For your second paragraph, while you have the right to not care for it, if it's a proven fact, which you said it was, how can you disagree with it? That's like saying you disagree with water boiling at 212 F at sea level. It just is. And yes, science has brought about bad things...but that's because it's our main way of advancement as a civilization. You gotta take the good with the bad.
For your third paragraph, define "user" Like i've said before, it stays in your system for a long time, so the person may not be constantly buying drugs. They may have been pressured by friends to try it once. Does that mean they don't need money for necessities? Drug tests do not check your background, it's just "Yes" or "No"
For your fourth paragraph, you're right. That's why you don't use it while you're at work. But drug tests are for getting into the workplace, not checking up on the people in the workplace, so even if you don't plan to work in an altered state of mind, too bad, drug test says it's in your body.
For your last paragraph...um...that's a really far-fetched comparison. You're comparing a pot smoker to a criminally insane person who is killing people. While pot is still illegal, there's a huge difference between smoking a joint when you have a day off from work, and going down to the beach, stalking, and killing someone. That difference is your amount of jail time if your caught. The criminal justice system is something separate from your employers, so they kinda have more of a right to confine you then a privatized business.
All in all, you're entitled to your own opinion, but my question is where did you gain this negativity against people who use pot? Who says a pot smoker doesn't need money to live too? You say it can bend those under it's influence to do stuff, but have you every tried it and been "bent to do something under it's influence"? Most pot smokers are bent to get food cause they have cotton mouth and the munchies. Is that so wrong? Did your parents raise you to believe drugs are evil? I'm just curious.

I think the easiest way for me to do this is by just addressing this on the way you did my own.

First:
You have to remember that half the chemicals in which we use to create things are found in nature. While yes, we do rework/synthesize/mix those elements together to find newer ones and simply just mass produce the ones we have already, the fact still remains. As for not going out in finding a heroin bush....I'm pretty sure that anyone that is familiar with drugs, overheard a conversation about drugs, or whatever the case may be knows that.
Second:
By disagree with it I didn't mean as if I denied it's exist and choose to believe in fairies and dragons instead. Don't through things out there such as temperatures and such. Really, that isn't even relevant to the post that I was making. I was actually pointing to what someone said at the top of page 3 I believe. As for taking the bad with the good, not to much anyone can say about that because that in itself is life.
Third:
By "user" I meant from a person using said drug at the time period to a past tense of the word, user. Someone who has used. As for tossing in peer pressure, there are ways around that. So using that as a way to base your opinion isn't sound enough. If you're mature enough to be in that enviornment, then you're mature enough to say hell no. And if it's forced down your throat, or they somehow make you inhale it, then like I said, there are ways to make sure the correct story is put forth. As for needing it for necessities, I'm still opposed to a person that using the money regardless of necessities because last time I checked, none of that is necessary for someone's life. And if it is, then you can get it medically, and that will show up on any document, health card, etc.
Fourth:
Basically what I'm trying to say is, a person who smokes it, is still that person who smokes it regardless of when/where they do it. Like I believe I said in my last post, I feel sorry for the guy that got passed up with incredible creditentials and the guy that was just an average joe got the job. Still used it, you know the risks of it. Tough luck.
Fifth:
I'm simply stating the truth. And who's to say the pot smoker isn't naturally a person that could be diagnosed to be criminally insane yet the weed sates their desires. I don't know, that's a bunch of shoulda/coulda/woulda. But I'm not changing what I said, I was replying to the fact that the employer doesn't have the right to decide what a person does in the their free time. As for jail time you'd be surprised how irrelevant that is to people. If jail was as scary as it was supposed to be, our jails wouldn't be so full half of the time. And while yes, those are two extremes to compare, the issue is still there. The statement can be bent to everyone's dismay.

Reply:
No, my parents never told me it's the devil in disguise. My parents grew up in an environment that drugs ruined a few people they were close to and they said they didn't want me to be like them. Simply that. They told me if it was brought in their house, they wouldn't accept that because they would expect I wouldn't need or want to use something like that.
My "negativity" comes from experience and seeing what drugs do to people. Yes, there are some that are still who they initially were before using it just as there are some that completely metamorph into something different. I've seen both sides of that, in my family as well as in friends. I won't say I'm better than them and I'm above them, but I have to say there are other things in life that you can rely on for fun or relaxation. And no, let's not try to put some excuse. Leave it for what it is and don't propagate it.
As for pot smokers need money for life as well I'm not trying to be demeaning or least I don't mean to say that anyone that uses it are less than human and therefore deserve said treatment. No, they're still human. But as far as the fact goes that the user is going to be using some of that paycheck to pay for those drugs while the next guy over is feeding his family, and living a life without that and barely getting by, that's just sickening. As for being bent while under it's influence, let's not throw the imagination of what I meant too far out there. I'm not saying one puff of it and the guy is going to run out on a massacre nor am I saying the guy is going to steal or beat someone up or what-have you. I'm just saying, you're not in your orignal state of mind, stuff happens, and at least if you're not influenced and something goes down. That's "your" fault why it did.

first off i have nothing against your lifes preference. I am just trying to figure your logic.

So regardless of your AWESOME performance and skills that may better the company. You must agree that a job, has the sole control of what kind of requirement it wants to have in order to hire a person. Even if it says a requirement is to be drug free, then thats the requirement. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be complaining it the requirements included doing drugs.

wait I lost track here. They are just eliminating the risk that may come from people whom uses drugs. Some of which are: leading to addiction/abuse (affects work), possibility of influencing others (specially if u are working with KIDS), getting caught with it even if you weren't using it - now you're in jail waiting for bail, instead of working-, and many more.

If you're comeback is "well there are just as many risk that comes with hiring a non-drug user", yes there is. But those who does uses drugs will have the same risk as the non-users PLUS the added risk, similar to what I mention above. Its a lot easier to filter out the risk of drug users then to filter out non user whom are crazy but acts sane.

understand??? its not about being fair, its about reducing risk. If u had a company and I sold u one of two machine both cost the same price; one is nothing wrong with it, other than unforeseen glitches, other is a machine which I know tends to have issues. which one would you pick??? the one that you know for sure will tend to have issues???!!!! WOULD YOU!!!???

P.S. you might think it is alrite to smoke plant, cause u believe its harmless. So you let one of the kids do it. And IT IS HARMLESS. WHAT IF THE PARENTS MIGHT NOT WANT THEIR KID TO EAT MEAT, WELL AND YOU THINK MEAT IS A FINE DIET, WOULD YOU MAKE THEIR KIDS EAT MEAT!!!! WELL ITS NOT YOUR CHOICE!!! ITS THIERS, ITS THIER KIDS, NOT YOURS. THEY RAISE THEM HOW THEY WANT AND THEY WANT TO RAISE THEM IN A DRUG FREE ENVIRONMENT. YOU SMOKING DRUGS AT THEIR SUMMER CAMP IS NOT A DRUG FREE ENVIRONMENT THEIR PARENTS WANT. THAT THEIR PARENTS PAID FOR. IF THEY DIDNT CARE THEY WOULD'VE PAID FOR THEIR KIDS TO GO TO A DRUG-FULL SUMMER CAMP WHERE WEED IS GROWN IN THE WILD AND EVERYONE IS SMOKING IT. BUT THEY ARE NOT. SO PUT DOWN THE BUD AND GO TAKE THE DRUG TEST. IF YOU DONT WANT TO PUT IT AWAY THEN GO WORK SOMEWHERE ELSE THAT ALLOWS U TO DO DRUGS. IM SURE I KNOW OF MANY PLACES THAT DOESNT MIND.

Obviously, you haven't seen the economy in America. You take what you can get when it comes to jobs.

Then shouldn't you be happy that you got a job instead of crying about a drug test that you're going to pass?

Okay, first off, I'm expressing an opinion. Knock it off with the whole "crying" thing. It's really immature. Secondly, I was using this job as a gateway for a bigger conversation, since drug tests basically say, "Well, you may be the most qualified, have the best skills, attitude on the job site, basically things that would help the employer and the company as a whole, but since you smoked a certain plant a month ago, maybe even longer than a month ago, even if throughout this hiring process you've been professional and not under the influence at all, too bad for you." You're telling me that this is fair?

I never said anything about the actual smoking of pot at the summer camp. I have no problem against getting rid of staff members actually smoking at the camp. My issue isn't with using drugs at a work place. Someone could very well "put down the bud and go take the drug test." but even if they had stopped smoking a month, two months, possibly even three in advanced, the cannabis would still show up on the drug test and get them not hired. The camp wasn't even hiring until about a month ago, so how could someone who: 1) could be really good at being a camp counselor. 2) Be perfectly willing to change their life style and give it up completely, get the fair treatment they deserve? They won't because the drug test lumps them into a group of "undesirables."
And define "drug users" because when you say "drug users" will have automatic added risks, you're categorizing so many people. Sure, a meth head or a crack head are gonna have added risks, but should they be in the same group as someone who maybe might have a joint every once in a while, but functions normally in society, and you could never even tell they've smoked pot unless they pee in a cup?
Also, I wouldn't let one of the kids smoke pot because I could LOSE MY JOB THAT THIS ENTIRE THREAD IS BASED UPON.

come on! really good counselor? you make it sound as if you're a super hero, but your only flaw -which shouldnt be considered a flaw-, is that you smoke pot. Well they have the right not to hire you if they don't want. Quite trying to force companies to allow you to do drugs and work for them.

I haven't tried pot before, but I really think that it will affect your job performance if your addicted, because your constantly wanting more. Besides, almost all drugs are bad that's a fact, no one should use drugs to get high even in their spare time

Again showing no understanding of that what your talking about.

1. pot has no long term side affects.. so as long as you do not smoke at work, you not be high at work.

2. Marijuana is 10 times less addicting than both caffeine and sugar. So unless you can not seem to work because of sugar. I truely do not think you have to fear that from pure marijuana.

3. Marijuana has been shown to aid people with ADD & ADHD + other illnesses/disabilities.. Making it so they can function normally. In their cases I rather higher a pot smoker with ADHD over a person who does not smoke with ADHD. Because it has been proven marijuana aids them to function normal.

4. The only people who prophet of Marijuana right now are the Anti-drug groups working for America's Government, and the drug dealers. An it is costing us the people billions.

Why would long term affects be important if you go to work five days a week? Pot has too many short term effects that can hinder your job performance, for example difficulty thinking and loss of coordination. And so what if its not addicting, pot may be harmless but it certainly doesn't do good for your body too. I understand that marijuana can aid people with disabilities, but I said already that people shouldn't use drugs JUST to get high.

I am all for drug testing and this is coming from a person who has a love for mary. Why? Because the only thing a junkie can do for me is cut my grass, and wash my car(outside not in...you too close man) . Also even if its just my beloved mary it still effects people, it slows your reactions and sometimes it invokes utter stupidity rivaling (if not surpassing) retardation. I would know I've done some dumb things. Honestly though employers that test for drugs should also test for alcohol too, they have the same side effects if you ask me

it dont matter what drug u do u can pass a drug test easy if its for a job they dont really watch u take the test just go buy some synthetic urine.if its for probation ect.they watch u go get a detox.and for those who are not sure that they work they do! i sell 100's of them a day to cops,firemen,military personnel,soccer moms,grandmas ect. and they always come back and buy more.lol