If you have any evidence that VanAsdlen did not initiate the interaction, please provide it.

Otherwise we will rely on the agreement by all parties – gays, police, reporters, racists, anti-Semites, homophobes, and VanAsdlen’s mother – that VanAsdlen began the confrontation by verbally attacked Velasquez.

Fair enough?

]]>By: bruce69http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10795
Wed, 14 May 2008 19:33:32 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10795timothy, and you got your facts straight from Amanda Evans at Channel 3 right?
]]>By: TJ McFistyhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10789
Wed, 14 May 2008 18:37:43 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10789Exactly what I was thinking, Tim. If VanAsdlen really really really, deep in heart of hearts, really didn’t care about gay people, then why are we here now talking about this episode?
]]>By: Timothy Kincaidhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10783
Wed, 14 May 2008 17:30:49 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10783i know the suspect. he doesn’t hate gay people nor does he care what gay people do.

bruce69,

There is no dispute over whether Brett VanAsdlen made disparaging comments to Stephen Velasquez. Your claim about “not caring” does not stand up to even the most casual glance at the facts of the case.

]]>By: bruce69http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10760
Wed, 14 May 2008 04:43:54 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10760wow timothy kincaid take a pill. are you saying you saw the police report or are you saying what amanda evans on channel 3 news said is based on the police report? if you believe what the tv says i will do an infomerrcial to sell you an all naked male beachfront property in montana for only $3 million. it’s a good deal and since you saw it on tv it must be true right
]]>By: bruce69http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10759
Wed, 14 May 2008 04:24:05 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10759i know the suspect. he doesn’t hate gay people nor does he care what gay people do. when the true facts come out you may be thoroughly embarrassed and may feel that you have wasted your time stressing over this
]]>By: Jason Dhttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10724
Tue, 13 May 2008 18:18:06 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10724Timothy, great explanation. It’s so hard for people to understand that Hate Crime merely means someone using one crime (vandalism, for example) to commit a second crime(intimidation). The second crime is intended as a message to that person, that person’s family, neighbors, friends, and or members of an entire class that they “do not belong”.

There are those who disagree with hate crimes laws as a matter of principle. But perhaps you misunderstand the basis on which they stand.

One could argue that burning a cross on the lawn of a black family is a matter of minor arson and should be treated as such. But we all know that the purpose of such an action is not about arson at all, but rather it is intended as intimidation. Further, we know that the victim of such an act is not limited to the family involved but that such behavior is directed at all black people.

In a similar manner, attacks on gay persons because they are gay are not intended as a scuffle with another fellow. They are acts of intimidation intended to serve as a threat against all gay people. Those acts say, “Don’t let me catch you ‘being gay’ or you will suffer the same fate”.

Any attack on a gay person results in fear of simple acts that heterosexuals take as a matter of their birthright – holding hands, talking without worrying about being overheard, personal expression, etc.

Acts of violence against gays serve to instill unease in gay people and, perhaps ironically, to instill a sense of belonging in homophobes. If we believe the victim in this case, the words that Vanasdlen used were selected with just such a purpose:

“He said, ‘Get out of here,'” and used an epithet, Velasquez said. He said the man also yelled, “You don’t belong here,” and other slurs.

I can respect those who worry about the end result of hate crimes. Such an argument is fair and valid. But I only respect those who oppose ALL hate crimes legislation, not just those who object to hate crimes when the victim is gay.

And dismissing hate crimes as “stupid” demonstrates an ignorace (perhaps willful) of the matter and the thinking behind the debate.

Alas, “normal matters” allowed “Twinkie Defense” and “Gay Panic” to allow the defendants to either walk or get lesser sentences.

]]>By: Al Batrosshttp://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958/comment-page-1#comment-10693
Tue, 13 May 2008 06:21:12 +0000http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/2008/05/07/1958#comment-10693Get rid of “hate crimes” laws and try the case as a normal matter of law and justice. The mutual accusations of “hate” in this blog duel are a direct result of such stupid laws.
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