Then how much of a raise should he give all the other 3rd year players? What should he do when Bigby wants a raise? Rouse? Ryan? Our kicker?

This is not so much about rewarding Grant as it is setting a precedence that if you preform for one half of a season then TT is willing to give you a raise.

If he sits, he sits. That is his choice. He can either live up to his contract or sit.

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Exactly.. he has only a season of tenure.. other seasons were on the inactive list or injured.. so he is kind of screwed a bit.. if he sits.. he doesn't gain anymore accured time.. so he will be an exclusive free agent indefinately... don't like it, complain to the union about the CBA...

Here is a novel idea.. play another season, prove it wasn't a fluke, the quietly bargain with the front office for a better deal.. airing it in public is like pissing in the wind...

Problem is Skibum, then all the other 1 year wonders will want the same ability in the future.

I love Grant and think he will be wonderful, but didn't Morency also have a good year and show signs of being excellent the last half of two seasons ago? how did that work out? What about Tony Fisher? there are others.

I am a firm believer that you are an excellent runner IF your line has lanes for you to run through. If there are no lanes then you are a mediocre runner. Isn't that what happened in the Championship game? The only runner I have ever seen make yards with no line or holes was Barry Sanders, and he was the best all time in my book.

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The comparisons to Morency and Fisher don't do anything for me. Once Grant became a starter, he gained more yards than any other player in the league with the exception of Ladanian Tomlinson. Then he gained over 200 in a playoff game. Neither Morency nor Fisher ever did anything that even approaches that.

The Barry Sanders comparison doesn't help me, either, because Sanders was arguably the best pure runner in NFL history, but there were plenty of occasions when he was shut down almost completely. It can happen to any RB against a defense that is playing at a high level.

And that's just the problem here, as mentioned in the article: There are no good comparisons. Javon Walker was still playing out a high dollar rookie contract when he went public (on the radio, no less) with his complaints. Grant, on the other hand, has thus far earned peanuts by NFL standards. Although the Packers seemingly hold all the cards here, I think Thompson should try to hammer out a deal that pays Grant something closer to what his production merits.

It's not like Grant agreed to a contract and now wants to back out of it. He's stuck earning the league minimum because of the way he came into the league. Players like him sometimes fall between the cracks, salary-wise, because of the way the league functions. That's why I think Thompson should bargain with him in good faith and try to come up with an agreement that both sides can tolerate.

I'm not saying they should break the bank for him. He has not proven himself for long enough to deserve a top-tier contract. But to force him to either play for the league minimum or hold out is too much of a slap in the face, in my opinion, and it will not make Green Bay look like an attractive place for other players.

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thats a good argument. still not sure that a player should not play out his contract... but that actually makes sense what you said.

Then how much of a raise should he give all the other 3rd year players? What should he do when Bigby wants a raise? Rouse? Ryan? Our kicker?

This is not so much about rewarding Grant as it is setting a precedence that if you preform for one half of a season then TT is willing to give you a raise.

If he sits, he sits. That is his choice. He can either live up to his contract or sit.

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Exactly.. he has only a season of tenure.. other seasons were on the inactive list or injured.. so he is kind of screwed a bit.. if he sits.. he doesn't gain anymore accured time.. so he will be an exclusive free agent indefinately... don't like it, complain to the union about the CBA...

Here is a novel idea.. play another season, prove it wasn't a fluke, the quietly bargain with the front office for a better deal.. airing it in public is like pissing in the wind...

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Agreed. I didn't like it when McKenzie or Walker tried to hold the team up. And they had more successes to point to than Grant. He may have been the second best rusher in all the NFL the last half of the year but that is just a half of a season.
If $350,000 isn't enough to play in the NFL then go get another job that will pay you more.
Better still put a whole season together like the last half of 2007 and then do it again and THEN get your big payday.

I skimmed through and saw "Barry Sanders" ... I don't even want to know why Barry's name is included in a thread based on Ryan Grant. He's not yet worthy! lol

Anyhooters, from the article (thanks for the link) I didn't see any quote from Ryan Grant himself. I don't like basing opinion from an Agent. Remember what Bus Cook said about Brett retiring? That's one example.

Ryan did an interview during the closing weeks of the season and he said he wasn't concerned about getting paid, that it would happen when it happens. Lots can change in a few months, but I just find it odd that through his agent he is threatening holding out now.

If $350,000 isn't enough to play in the NFL then go get another job that will pay you more.

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wpr, saying something like that is unfair, IMO. We as fans say "I'd lpay for that much money no question" but it's more complicated for that for football players.

$370,000 that Grant would receive would make him the lowest paid RB on our roster, earning the same as Wynn. That's not fair, especially considering Grant is the most proven RB on our team.

It's a matter of Grant wanting to get more because he has earned it. Grant has stayed healthier than any of our other RBs AND he has gained more yards than our other RBs combined last year.

I think that alone calls for a pay raise. It's not that Grant is being greedy, Grant is simply saying "I want to earn more in line with what I'm really worth".

Grant is worth more than the minimum, although exactly how much more is debatable.

The fact that Grant has shown up to the off-season work outs, is putting in the effort to become even better and produce even more, that is impressive.

Grant is not necessarily unhappy, he is unsatisfied. But he is not letting his lack of satisfaction keep him from keeping his responsibilities and doing what he can to improve. That's the mark of a quality individual.

I must say, I'm impressed with Grant attending the voluntary workouts. He's putting in the effort to improve, he isn't content with last years success. That is what you want to see in a starter.

I think Ted will make sure Grant is satisfied by giving him a fair deal. It's just a matter of when, not if, IMO.

I'm not against giving him a raise.
All this SHOULD have been kept behind closed doors though.
I don't know if it's his agent out there spreading this crap, but it never should have been made public. It makes Grant look bad in my view.
Keep it where it belongs....between the agent anf the Packer front office.

If $350,000 isn't enough to play in the NFL then go get another job that will pay you more.

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wpr, saying something like that is unfair, IMO. We as fans say "I'd lpay for that much money no question" but it's more complicated for that for football players.

$370,000 that Grant would receive would make him the lowest paid RB on our roster, earning the same as Wynn. That's not fair, especially considering Grant is the most proven RB on our team.

It's a matter of Grant wanting to get more because he has earned it. Grant has stayed healthier than any of our other RBs AND he has gained more yards than our other RBs combined last year.

I think that alone calls for a pay raise. It's not that Grant is being greedy, Grant is simply saying "I want to earn more in line with what I'm really worth".

Grant is worth more than the minimum, although exactly how much more is debatable.

The fact that Grant has shown up to the off-season work outs, is putting in the effort to become even better and produce even more, that is impressive.

Grant is not necessarily unhappy, he is unsatisfied. But he is not letting his lack of satisfaction keep him from keeping his responsibilities and doing what he can to improve. That's the mark of a quality individual.

I must say, I'm impressed with Grant attending the voluntary workouts. He's putting in the effort to improve, he isn't content with last years success. That is what you want to see in a starter.

I think Ted will make sure Grant is satisfied by giving him a fair deal. It's just a matter of when, not if, IMO.

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I know what you are saying and I do not totally disagree with it. If TT wants to give him an incentive based contract I would not object.
Grant is one of the few players that was undrafted and yet ends up starting in his first real season. He may be the lowest paid RB on the team but why is that? He did not show enuf in college to be drafted by anyone.
He was on the practice squad with NYG. Even at the beginning of this past season he was buried on the Giants depth chart.
It may well be horrible to receive a mere $370,000 to play in the NFL. But it is still far better than most other people get paid. I do not think that 9 extremely productive games gives him the right to complain. Was it all his abilities or did the team start to do better as a whole in the run game in the 2nd half of the year? More than likely it is a little bit of both. Early in the year GB focused on the pass in many of the games to take advantage of our better passing game and the opponents weaker pass defense. (Or sometimes avoid their outstanding run defense.)
The things that stand out and make him different that MM and JW is that they had signed contracts that they were wanting to tear up. He does not have a contract at this time. In addition, he is willing to report and workout with the rest of the team. I give him credit for that.
But it still boils down to whether or not TT wants to give him the better deal. I do not buy into the idea that being a tough negotiator will keep potential free agents from coming to GB. You do not see TT really making much of an effort to go after FA in the 1st place so if they do not get any I don't think he really cares.

I'm not against giving him a raise.All this SHOULD have been kept behind closed doors though.
I don't know if it's his agent out there spreading this crap, but it never should have been made public. It makes Grant look bad in my view.
Keep it where it belongs....between the agent anf the Packer front office.

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Like with Driver and Ted Thompson the other year? They handled that like pros and everyone was a winner.

I'm not against giving him a raise.All this SHOULD have been kept behind closed doors though.
I don't know if it's his agent out there spreading this crap, but it never should have been made public. It makes Grant look bad in my view.
Keep it where it belongs....between the agent anf the Packer front office.

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Like with Driver and Ted Thompson the other year? They handled that like pros and everyone was a winner.

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But Driver was complaining to those around him and things like that get leaked

How long is the average "NFL Life Expectancy of Running back?" I think it is about 4 years. Based on that average I would say Grant has the right to get as much as he can during his NFL Life and $320,000 dollars does not seem like much.

Then again, I read the average life expectancy of a Huey Helicopter Door Gunner during action in a "Hot LZ" in Vietnam was about 20 seconds.

I'm not against giving him a raise.All this SHOULD have been kept behind closed doors though.
I don't know if it's his agent out there spreading this crap, but it never should have been made public. It makes Grant look bad in my view.
Keep it where it belongs....between the agent anf the Packer front office.

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Like with Driver and Ted Thompson the other year? They handled that like pros and everyone was a winner.

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But Driver was complaining to those around him and things like that get leaked

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So? That's fine. After it got leaked he pretty much denied it and said "It's between me and the team" or something like that. THAT'S how you handle it. He was supposedly complaining in-house bigtime, and that's where you do it. You cry and whine and piss and moan, TO THE TEAM(and well, your friends I guess), not state your diehard position with in a statement with your agent. No. Bad Grant. I forgive him cuz he's young though.

I'm not against giving him a raise.All this SHOULD have been kept behind closed doors though.
I don't know if it's his agent out there spreading this crap, but it never should have been made public. It makes Grant look bad in my view.
Keep it where it belongs....between the agent anf the Packer front office.

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Like with Driver and Ted Thompson the other year? They handled that like pros and everyone was a winner.

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But Driver was complaining to those around him and things like that get leaked

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So? That's fine. After it got leaked he pretty much denied it and said "It's between me and the team" or something like that. THAT'S how you handle it. He was supposedly complaining in-house bigtime, and that's where you do it. You cry and whine and piss and moan, TO THE TEAM(and well, your friends I guess), not state your diehard position with in a statement with your agent. No. Bad Grant. I forgive him cuz he's young though.

So? That's fine. After it got leaked he pretty much denied it and said "It's between me and the team" or something like that. THAT'S how you handle it. He was supposedly complaining in-house bigtime, and that's where you do it. You cry and whine and piss and moan, TO THE TEAM (and well, your friends I guess), not state your diehard position with in a statement with your agent. No. Bad Grant. I forgive him cuz he's young though.

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Trom, YOU ARE A LIAR! You are not 23 years of age.

There is way too much wisdom in your post "Response" above for a 23 year old kid. :shock:

I think you just nailed it. Right on the head. End of discussion. There is no argument against. your post above.

I'm not against giving him a raise.All this SHOULD have been kept behind closed doors though.
I don't know if it's his agent out there spreading this crap, but it never should have been made public. It makes Grant look bad in my view.
Keep it where it belongs....between the agent anf the Packer front office.

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Like with Driver and Ted Thompson the other year? They handled that like pros and everyone was a winner.

Click to expand...

But Driver was complaining to those around him and things like that get leaked

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So? That's fine. After it got leaked he pretty much denied it and said "It's between me and the team" or something like that. THAT'S how you handle it. He was supposedly complaining in-house bigtime, and that's where you do it. You cry and whine and piss and moan, TO THE TEAM(and well, your friends I guess), not state your diehard position with in a statement with your agent. No. Bad Grant. I forgive him cuz he's young though.

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I see your point now..Makes sense

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Ryan Grant made a statement through his agent?
From the articles I read his agent was just answering questions about his client.

So, in a matter of a few months Ryan has went from a humble individual to putting out a statement through his agent about his attending OTA's but will not play under the current offer from the Packers and will skip TC?

So? That's fine. After it got leaked he pretty much denied it and said "It's between me and the team" or something like that. THAT'S how you handle it. He was supposedly complaining in-house bigtime, and that's where you do it. You cry and whine and piss and moan, TO THE TEAM(and well, your friends I guess), not state your diehard position with in a statement with your agent. No. Bad Grant. I forgive him cuz he's young though.

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Read the article in the first post. Tell me where exactly Grant's agent came out and criticized the team, or said anything near what your implying he said.

What Grant's agent said:

"I'm optimistic we're going to move along here and get something done. Nothing has begun in terms of the process. But listening to everything that's coming out of Green Bay in terms of the club taking care of their own, I'm optimistic, and that's why Ryan is there at this point. He's participating in the offseason program and we're looking forward to — let me put it this way, it's the golden opportunity for the Packers and Ryan Grant to get together on something that will keep him there for the rest of his career."

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Grant's agent saying exactly what Driver said last year: he (Grant) wants to stay a Packer, and it's time to get together and work out a FAIR contract.

Driver said the same thing (after getting his contract redone for the second time in two years, so he could get more money):

"I always felt like I was going to be one of the top receivers in the league. I guess that's how everybody in the world (would) want to get compensated. I feel like I'm a top five receiver in the league. I've been a Green Bay Packer for life. My goal is to (always) be here.

In fact, read what Driver said last year on other Packer players wanting better contracts:

If they (other Packers) feel like they deserve one, then I respect them if they do get one.

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All Grant's agent has said is that Grant wants to sign a long term deal, a deal worth more than the minimum. The agent himself said he isn't worried about a contract getting done, and that is why Grant is CURRENTLY AT voluntary off-season workouts in Green Bay.

I don't get what's so bad about what Grant's agent said. It's not a matter of Grant's agent or Grant being greedy and doing things the wrong way. Grant's agent only said "we want to work out a long-term contract, and Grant's sure enough it'll happen that he's working out with the team".

Don't misconstrue what the Packersnews.com article said with what Grant's agent said.

365 Days ago Grant was a "Rudy" on the scout team of the New York Giants. He was not, or never would, be getting a shot on that team. He was having a cup of coffee with the Giants, and one inch away from being a member on a chat forum as far as his contribution to the 2008 N.F.L. season.

Then T.T. steps into Grant's life. The Packers change Grant's life for ever. The Packers pick him up. Grant gets his shot. Starts 7 games, rushes for almost 1,000 yards. (956 yards) Great story.

However he has someone to thank for that opportunity.

And how you thank someone for pulling you out of going no place in a hurry is NOT BY HOLDING OUT.

Sure Grant.... Push your plea.... Make your case.... Use your stats... and run a public relations campaign for more money. You do not say.... "I am going to hold out." I am not going to participate in team activities that will make us a better team in September. The "Key Word" being Team. Heretofore, the team that pulled you out of obscurity by giving you the opportunity to have 188 touches on the N.F.L. playing field.

Does he deserve a raise? YES I say 750K with incentives to make 1.5 million next year.

Is he going about it the right way to get that raise? NO

Now If he maintais the same 5.1 YPC next year that he had in 7 starts last year, then he can ask, and will deserve, a long term lucrative contract.

Yup RP.......thats all i was saying all along.
We gave him his shot, and you DON'T repay the team thats giving you a chance to become a multi millionaire by "dissing" them for not just handing you a fat contract based on a few games. PROVE that you deserve it, THEN cry if they don't treat you fairly.

Yup RP.......thats all i was saying all along.
We gave him his shot, and you DON'T repay the team thats giving you a chance to become a multi millionaire by "dissing" them for not just handing you a fat contract based on a few games. PROVE that you deserve it, THEN cry if they don't treat you fairly.

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Where is he crying? All I've read is comments from his agent. Times are slow. Reporters/Journalists need things to talk about. So they contact Grants agent and ask about his contract discussions and BAM you have a story.

Ryan hasn't come out and said anything.
Ryan hasn't put out a statement to be released by his agent.

It was just some questions from journalists to his agent.

Maybe I'm being "naive" or "ignorant" as some non-objective people like to throw out there, but I go on facts, not presumptions. :shock: