Ask any offensive lineman what the key is to creating a great line. They'll tell you it's time on the field together. I asked one a few weeks ago who was in the Super Bowl last year. The single most important thing for a line to work is familiarity, working as a group, growing together and acting as one. If you keep swapping players in and out every season, you're never going to get that. You draft a rookie and put him at RT and he struggles a bit in year one, what then? Draft another? It's the easiest position to say every year - 'draft another lineman'. The offensive line is not the biggest issue here. It's not even the second biggest issue. Time to spend high picks on other areas of the team.

pehawk wrote:Haha, Montana and English think Jazz and 515 are dumb! You got a "groan" and a "that worked well last time".

Montanta and English remind me of Jimmy Fallon's IT guy character from SNL, anytime non-cred draft person speaks.

Dummies!

I was using intense sarcasm in my post, for the record. While I am not really against spending a whole bunch of 1st rounders on O-line (whole bunch of people wanted Decastro last year... not me), we have bigger needs, and cohesion on the line is a need too, and that comes with time.

pehawk wrote:Haha, Montana and English think Jazz and 515 are dumb! You got a "groan" and a "that worked well last time".

Montanta and English remind me of Jimmy Fallon's IT guy character from SNL, anytime non-cred draft person speaks.

Dummies!

I was using intense sarcasm in my post, for the record. While I am not really against spending a whole bunch of 1st rounders on O-line (whole bunch of people wanted Decastro last year... not me), we have bigger needs, and cohesion on the line is a need too, and that comes with time.

I know you were.

I was joking and being sarcastic too. That chip on my shoulder, weighs me down, and actually lends me to compliment English's blog, quite a bit on here. That's what people with chips on their shoulders do, compliment and thank others for their hard work.

I'm not against drafting an O-lineman in round 1 if the team feels he's a lock for the pro-bowl.

That said, our current line is extremely under-rated here at .net. Football outsiders ranks them 6th in run blocking and 18th in pass blocking. This after YEARS of being in the 30s in both categories from the Tim Ruskell regime.

Quite frankly, the fan situation with our O-line reminds me of the fan situation in Denver with Broncos fans when it came to QB. One by one, Griese, Plummer, and Cutler would all have good or even great seasons, and fans always thought they sucked because they weren't John Elway, who's legend made him an even better QB in memory than he was in reality. That was why Peyton Manning was so perfect for Denver, because finally Broncos fans had a QB where even the biggest homer wouldn't compare him unfavorably to Elway.

I think it's the same thing here. Seattle had a GREAT O-line from 2002 to 2005. But I think that standard has set a very high benchmark for some fans and now that we have a solidly good line fans are criminally under rating it because our standards were raised so high in the past.

The best player on the Hawks is Wilson. Now, all the bullshit about his height is kind of annoying, but there is one truth about his stature: he will never get the full benefit from a pristine pocket. He just won't. So, having linemen who are just league average is ok, since our QB does some of his best work from outside the pocket anyway.

So, unless the lineman who falls to our drafting spot miraculously is freakin awesome, I am all for giving the Russ some more weapons. Or replacing Hll. Or getting a DT who will make the pocket uncomfortable.

I will bet some dollars the Hawks front office agrees with me. There will be no lineman selected with the first pick.

Scottemojo wrote:The best player on the Hawks is Wilson. Now, all the bullshit about his height is kind of annoying, but there is one truth about his stature: he will never get the full benefit from a pristine pocket. He just won't. So, having linemen who are just league average is ok, since our QB does some of his best work from outside the pocket anyway.

So, unless the lineman who falls to our drafting spot miraculously is freakin awesome, I am all for giving the Russ some more weapons. Or replacing Hll. Or getting a DT who will make the pocket uncomfortable.

I will bet some dollars the Hawks front office agrees with me. There will be no lineman selected with the first pick.

Wilson the best player on the Hawks? woah that is a little too high of praise....

Scottemojo wrote:The best player on the Hawks is Wilson. Now, all the bullshit about his height is kind of annoying, but there is one truth about his stature: he will never get the full benefit from a pristine pocket. He just won't. So, having linemen who are just league average is ok, since our QB does some of his best work from outside the pocket anyway.

So, unless the lineman who falls to our drafting spot miraculously is freakin awesome, I am all for giving the Russ some more weapons. Or replacing Hll. Or getting a DT who will make the pocket uncomfortable.

I will bet some dollars the Hawks front office agrees with me. There will be no lineman selected with the first pick.

Wilson the best player on the Hawks? woah that is a little too high of praise....

Scottemojo wrote:The best player on the Hawks is Wilson. Now, all the bullshit about his height is kind of annoying, but there is one truth about his stature: he will never get the full benefit from a pristine pocket. He just won't. So, having linemen who are just league average is ok, since our QB does some of his best work from outside the pocket anyway.

So, unless the lineman who falls to our drafting spot miraculously is freakin awesome, I am all for giving the Russ some more weapons. Or replacing Hll. Or getting a DT who will make the pocket uncomfortable.

I will bet some dollars the Hawks front office agrees with me. There will be no lineman selected with the first pick.

Wilson the best player on the Hawks? woah that is a little too high of praise....

Nope. It is accurate. Best/most important. He is both.

Better than Sherman?

I have a hard time arguing Russell Wilson is the 3rd best rookie QB with some people (not Hawk fans though). But the best player on a pretty talented Seahawk team??? Uhhhhh..... that's pretty cool.... but I don't really think so..... Maybe most important I guess.

Scottemojo wrote:The best player on the Hawks is Wilson. Now, all the bullshit about his height is kind of annoying, but there is one truth about his stature: he will never get the full benefit from a pristine pocket. He just won't. So, having linemen who are just league average is ok, since our QB does some of his best work from outside the pocket anyway.

So, unless the lineman who falls to our drafting spot miraculously is freakin awesome, I am all for giving the Russ some more weapons. Or replacing Hll. Or getting a DT who will make the pocket uncomfortable.

I will bet some dollars the Hawks front office agrees with me. There will be no lineman selected with the first pick.

Well, maybe a defensive lineman.

Talent can get you to the playoffs.It takes character to win when you get there.SUPER BOWL XLVIII CHAMPIONS

Scottemojo wrote:The best player on the Hawks is Wilson. Now, all the bullshit about his height is kind of annoying, but there is one truth about his stature: he will never get the full benefit from a pristine pocket. He just won't. So, having linemen who are just league average is ok, since our QB does some of his best work from outside the pocket anyway.

So, unless the lineman who falls to our drafting spot miraculously is freakin awesome, I am all for giving the Russ some more weapons. Or replacing Hll. Or getting a DT who will make the pocket uncomfortable.

I will bet some dollars the Hawks front office agrees with me. There will be no lineman selected with the first pick.

hawksfan515 wrote:Wilson the best player on the Hawks? woah that is a little too high of praise....

Nope. It is accurate. Best/most important. He is both.

Better than Sherman?

I have a hard time arguing Russell Wilson is the 3rd best rookie QB with some people (not Hawk fans though). But the best player on a pretty talented Seahawk team??? Uhhhhh..... that's pretty cool.... but I don't really think so..... Maybe most important I guess.

Yeah, better than Sherman. And don't get me wrong, I really like Sherman. Our QB is quietly one of the two or three best QBs in the entire league since week 5.

Best player available. We are at the point we can do it. OL is pretty far down my need list. I'd look to D first. I'd like a DT that cold play every down and get some serious pressure up the middle. If we had Jones, Irvin , Clemons and a new beast DT ..look out

Happypuppy wrote:Best player available. We are at the point we can do it. OL is pretty far down my need list. I'd look to D first. I'd like a DT that cold play every down and get some serious pressure up the middle. If we had Jones, Irvin , Clemons and a new beast DT ..look out

Point is there really aren't any that i see that can dominate a game like a Suh, Ngata, Atkins. I just don't see it here. Before you want to bash taking an olineman due to continuity? Look at how much continuity we have had? Pretty much none. Only ones who have played at their position the entire season are Okung, Unger, Giacomini. I think everyone here can say we definitely would be near the bottom in pass protection if it wasn't for Russell's ability to run. Flynn back there? Pretty sure he would have been hurt already. I wish Carpenter could get consistent and stay in the lineup because i think he could become very good on the left side. But maybe we should draft an OG in the first round and RT in the 3rd. I am thinking HIll's replacement in the second round. Right now though i think everyone can say Giacomini has been better lately but he is definitely the weakpoint. Neither Moffit nor Carpenter seem to want to put a lock on who is going to be our LG. Although Carpenter's recent injury could give Moffit a leg up. We can sit here all day everyday and try to predict what this FO should draft and is going to draft. But recently they have proven their prospect ranking boards go beyond conventional wisdom. But i don't care because i know what ever they pick will improve t he team in one form or another. I will say this 3/5 of the 49ers Oline that flat out demolished our Dline has 3 first round picks on it. Can't wait to see the rest of the season unfold. Go Hawks.

Happypuppy wrote:Best player available. We are at the point we can do it. OL is pretty far down my need list. I'd look to D first. I'd like a DT that cold play every down and get some serious pressure up the middle. If we had Jones, Irvin , Clemons and a new beast DT ..look out

Point is there really aren't any that i see that can dominate a game like a Suh, Ngata, Atkins. I just don't see it here. Before you want to bash taking an olineman due to continuity? Look at how much continuity we have had? Pretty much none. Only ones who have played at their position the entire season are Okung, Unger, Giacomini. I think everyone here can say we definitely would be near the bottom in pass protection if it wasn't for Russell's ability to run. Flynn back there? Pretty sure he would have been hurt already. I wish Carpenter could get consistent and stay in the lineup because i think he could become very good on the left side. But maybe we should draft an OG in the first round and RT in the 3rd. I am thinking HIll's replacement in the second round. Right now though i think everyone can say Giacomini has been better lately but he is definitely the weakpoint. Neither Moffit nor Carpenter seem to want to put a lock on who is going to be our LG. Although Carpenter's recent injury could give Moffit a leg up. We can sit here all day everyday and try to predict what this FO should draft and is going to draft. But recently they have proven their prospect ranking boards go beyond conventional wisdom. But i don't care because i know what ever they pick will improve t he team in one form or another. I will say this 3/5 of the 49ers Oline that flat out demolished our Dline has 3 first round picks on it. Can't wait to see the rest of the season unfold. Go Hawks.

Yup need continuity, who cares if it's with other teams cast offs. Continuity is all they need, we'll never have to draft an o lineman again.

hawksfan515 wrote:Yep let's comprise a line entirely of first and 2nd rounders. Not like we have other needs or anything.

Funny, I don't recall at all specifying first or second rounders. That you choose to assume that just shows you the old axiom is true. When you assume, you make an ass.... well at least out of yourself. You're on fire tonight bro.

hawksfan515 wrote:Yep let's comprise a line entirely of first and 2nd rounders. Not like we have other needs or anything.

Funny, I don't recall at all specifying first or second rounders. That you choose to assume that just shows you the old axiom is true. When you assume, you make an ass.... well at least out of yourself. You're on fire tonight bro.

The early draft should go to stud RT and another guard.

What did you mean by the early draft then?

I didn't mean to come off overly rude, just a little sarcastic. Anyways in general the early draft is 1-2, middle rounds 3-4, and late rounds 5-7. Lines are a little fuzzy but that's how I see it.

Don't overreact too much now though. Quite honestly, this was not a great question. Cohesion is very important in D-line play, and we already have guys who could develop into good players. They just need more time.

The Russell Wilson of right now is several magnitudes higher in value than even Richard Sherman. Without Wilson, our line looks worse, our WRs look worse, our RBs look worse (play action / read option), we convert fewer 3rd downs, we score fewer points, and we lose more games. Wilson isn't just a great player, he's a great enabler.

hawksfan515 wrote:Yep let's comprise a line entirely of first and 2nd rounders. Not like we have other needs or anything.

Funny, I don't recall at all specifying first or second rounders. That you choose to assume that just shows you the old axiom is true. When you assume, you make an ass.... well at least out of yourself. You're on fire tonight bro.

The early draft should go to stud RT and another guard.

What did you mean by the early draft then?

I didn't mean to come off overly rude, just a little sarcastic. Anyways in general the early draft is 1-2, middle rounds 3-4, and late rounds 5-7. Lines are a little fuzzy but that's how I see it.

Don't overreact too much now though. Quite honestly, this was not a great question. Cohesion is very important in D-line play, and we already have guys who could develop into good players. They just need more time.

I'm with 515 here. You say "early draft" and people are going to think you mean first and second rounds.

I don't care what round we draft them in, I just want a good line for Russell Wilson. Keeping him upright is an investment in the future.

Feel free to contact me if you need legal assistance. I have a great lawyer that helped me with an ex who violated my privacy and kept harassing me on MySpace and Facebook. He's very good. And there is legal precedent. - linuxpro

I always love seeing them draft lineman on either side.If you look at our skill positions on offense, they have improved across the board from last year other than baldwin.There is no reason we should be scoring only 20 points a game, exactly what we did last year with TJ at the helm.Our Ol is the weak link on O.Wilson Miller and Lynch make them look better than they are.Wilson needs a pocket and these guys arent getting it done.I know we spent draft picks Ol but draft position doesnt matter if they don't get the job done.Just because Curry was the 4th pick doesnt mean you quit trying to draft better LBsContinuity does matter but look at the Bears they were plugging in 3 interior guys and we still couldnt get much pressure.

SmokinHawk wrote:I don't care what round we draft them in, I just want a good line for Russell Wilson. Keeping him upright is an investment in the future.

Good guard play is essential too me i gotta say. Interior pressure is a short QB's worst enemy, as they really can't see then, plus it makes scrambling harder.

If Chance Warmack/Jonathan Cooper are available, i wouldn't say no, because they would probably be BPA. But if we target guard as a need in the 1st, that is a mistake. I'll take a stud guard if he's BPA.

I think it would be a hard toss up for me if there was no stand out DT 3 Tech and we were looking at warmack/cooper at out pick. I know it would be great to add a few weapons and I know Oline is about working together and knowing the guy next to you. I really want a great right guard to keep the interior cleaner for RW and make the job of Unger easier in the run game and the job of Breno easier in the passing game.

If it is me I think I take the Warmack/Cooper pick and start looking for weapons and specialized DT in the next two rounds.

I know we have spent a lot of capital but if we can absolutely control the TOP with the run game and points, well Petes D will look like the best ever.

"If we lose ... this place will be a Carnival of Stupidity." FlyingGreg

Happypuppy wrote:Best player available. We are at the point we can do it. OL is pretty far down my need list. I'd look to D first. I'd like a DT that cold play every down and get some serious pressure up the middle. If we had Jones, Irvin , Clemons and a new beast DT ..look out

Point is there really aren't any that i see that can dominate a game like a Suh, Ngata, Atkins. I just don't see it here. Before you want to bash taking an olineman due to continuity? Look at how much continuity we have had? Pretty much none. Only ones who have played at their position the entire season are Okung, Unger, Giacomini. I think everyone here can say we definitely would be near the bottom in pass protection if it wasn't for Russell's ability to run. Flynn back there? Pretty sure he would have been hurt already. I wish Carpenter could get consistent and stay in the lineup because i think he could become very good on the left side. But maybe we should draft an OG in the first round and RT in the 3rd. I am thinking HIll's replacement in the second round. Right now though i think everyone can say Giacomini has been better lately but he is definitely the weakpoint. Neither Moffit nor Carpenter seem to want to put a lock on who is going to be our LG. Although Carpenter's recent injury could give Moffit a leg up. We can sit here all day everyday and try to predict what this FO should draft and is going to draft. But recently they have proven their prospect ranking boards go beyond conventional wisdom. But i don't care because i know what ever they pick will improve t he team in one form or another. I will say this 3/5 of the 49ers Oline that flat out demolished our Dline has 3 first round picks on it. Can't wait to see the rest of the season unfold. Go Hawks.

No we don't need more Guards. We're already plum full of them as it is. Carpenter, Moffitt, McQuistan, and Newly called up Rishaw Johnson, should provide us enough talent at Guard. I wouldn't be surprised to see Carpenter take the LG spot next year and Moffitt/Sweezy claim the RG spot.

I would love to see the coaches experiment with Sweezy to see if he could play RT. He's more athletic than Breno and has a nasty side like Breno. Since he's new the OL he'd be a clean slate for Cable to work his magic. It's clear to me there is more depth at Guard than at Tackle, and if Sweezy could play Tackle than our OL should be good to go for years to come.

I agree with someone above who said, Best player available. Our depth is good enough we won't have any glaring holes so I'd hope they take the best on their board. A 3 down 3 Technique DT, or a big playmaking WR, or a TE would be my 3 player of choice for the first round. Any of the 3 would be fantastic.. I like Branch but he's no threat to get push inside. I'm interested to see how much Howard and SCruggs develop next year.

Well, as another noted, we a ranked 6 as an O-line for run blocking. Not too damn shabby, and 18 for pass. I support the theory that RW does not need a dominant top 5 ranked pass blocking line to be effective.

How many times this year has anyone seen RW just get creamed in the pocket? 2? 4? Just basically has not happened. With our teams offensive philosophy, our line is working pretty damn well for what we want to do, and how we want to do it.

We just might actually be to the point that in the first round we just go BPA.

seedhawk wrote:Well, as another noted, we a ranked 6 as an O-line for run blocking. Not too damn shabby, and 18 for pass. I support the theory that RW does not need a dominant top 5 ranked pass blocking line to be effective.

How many times this year has anyone seen RW just get creamed in the pocket? 2? 4? Just basically has not happened. With our teams offensive philosophy, our line is working pretty damn well for what we want to do, and how we want to do it.

We just might actually be to the point that in the first round we just go BPA.

Yup. I wouldn't be averse to taking an o-lineman if he was BPA, though. However, I do think interior pass rush and top-notch pass catchers should be the priority.

In it, Cable sounds rather pleased with the progress of his offensive line. And he sounds rather confident in the future of his existing personel. Unless there is someone who clearly falls into their lap in some round of the 2013 draft, I don't see them making an offensive linemen a priority.

Free agent projects and a JR Sweezy type find seem more probable to me. I think they are ahead of schedule with their personal on the offensive line ...... with both talent and contracts.

P.S. Just a reminder ....... Zone blocking linemen are not required to physically dominate or manhandle an opponent to be successful and grade out well. Goals are different than those for other schemes.

I don't know who does these rankings but I really don't have faith in them.DVOA or line ranking are meaningless when Miami is ragdolling the oline or Wilson is scrambling before a play develops.Wilson does make plays that allow the Oline to make mistakes but having a QB running outside the pocket for first downs is just not a a sustainable offensive game plan IMO.Games will still be won or lost inside the pocket and thats where this offense struggles.Many times there isnt a pocket and sometimes Wilson doesn't step up into it.The Chicago game was an amazing performance but he was within inches of being knocked out of the game on that play he slid on.Sooner or later legal and illegal hits on him are going to take their toll.It only takes one to wreck a season.Wilson is fast but so are most of the headhunters that will be chasing him down trying to take him out of the game.

seedhawk wrote:Well, as another noted, we a ranked 6 as an O-line for run blocking. Not too damn shabby, and 18 for pass. I support the theory that RW does not need a dominant top 5 ranked pass blocking line to be effective.

How many times this year has anyone seen RW just get creamed in the pocket? 2? 4? Just basically has not happened. With our teams offensive philosophy, our line is working pretty damn well for what we want to do, and how we want to do it.

We just might actually be to the point that in the first round we just go BPA.

Yup. I wouldn't be averse to taking an o-lineman if he was BPA, though. However, I do think interior pass rush and top-notch pass catchers should be the priority.

So tell me this? How do you think the Oline would grade out in Pass Protection if we didn't have a running QB? I guarantee you we would be towards the bottom of the league. And for the people that say Drafting OG in the first round is a bad habit to get into well i guess we really screwed up drafting Hutchinson. Now do i think other guards could be found in round two or 3 yeah i do. But how often do you see guys like Warmack or Cooper around? I am hoping we can get something like a Cooper in Rnd 1 and Arthur Brown or Greene in the Second. See how it goes. But i think week 1 and in multiple other games has proven our C/G havent done well on interior pass pro at all. They are going to have their hands full with Dockett again this week.

seedhawk wrote:Well, as another noted, we a ranked 6 as an O-line for run blocking. Not too damn shabby, and 18 for pass. I support the theory that RW does not need a dominant top 5 ranked pass blocking line to be effective.

How many times this year has anyone seen RW just get creamed in the pocket? 2? 4? Just basically has not happened. With our teams offensive philosophy, our line is working pretty damn well for what we want to do, and how we want to do it.

We just might actually be to the point that in the first round we just go BPA.

Yup. I wouldn't be averse to taking an o-lineman if he was BPA, though. However, I do think interior pass rush and top-notch pass catchers should be the priority.

So tell me this? How do you think the Oline would grade out in Pass Protection if we didn't have a running QB? I guarantee you we would be towards the bottom of the league. And for the people that say Drafting OG in the first round is a bad habit to get into well i guess we really screwed up drafting Hutchinson. Now do i think other guards could be found in round two or 3 yeah i do. But how often do you see guys like Warmack or Cooper around? I am hoping we can get something like a Cooper in Rnd 1 and Arthur Brown or Greene in the Second. See how it goes. But i think week 1 and in multiple other games has proven our C/G havent done well on interior pass pro at all. They are going to have their hands full with Dockett again this week.

So ...... I guess this means your also blowing off Tom Cable and his assessment of the state of the offensive line.

Kelly.Orr wrote:So tell me this? How do you think the Oline would grade out in Pass Protection if we didn't have a running QB?

That's a moot point. The fact is that we do have a great running QB. He doesn't get sacked a whole lot and makes big plays out of the pocket. He's also been good at avoiding big hits so far when he has scrambled. We also have a great running back who is helped out by a very good run blocking line.

Look, I won't be disappointed if we draft o-line in round one or two. There is certainly room for pass protection to improve. That may happen if you give these relatively inexperienced guys (Carpenter, Moffitt, Giacomini, Sweezy) time together, or it may not. I'm sure Cable, Bevell and Carroll will upgrade if they don't think these guys will cut it.

Watching the last 6 weeks or so, though, it has been our own inability to rush the passer and our proclivity to allow drive extending passes into the second level, as well as linebackers being blocked off up the middle on run plays, that have been the most infuriating elements of the Seahawks games to watch, personally.

So strengthening the D-line or pass rush would be my own preferences. With Wilson's passing abilities a pass catcher who can create separation and make plays would also be beneficial. But, if a beast o-lineman falls to us, then sure: welcome aboard.

Ask any offensive lineman what the key is to creating a great line. They'll tell you it's time on the field together. I asked one a few weeks ago who was in the Super Bowl last year. The single most important thing for a line to work is familiarity, working as a group, growing together and acting as one. If you keep swapping players in and out every season, you're never going to get that. You draft a rookie and put him at RT and he struggles a bit in year one, what then? Draft another? It's the easiest position to say every year - 'draft another lineman'. The offensive line is not the biggest issue here. It's not even the second biggest issue. Time to spend high picks on other areas of the team.

So what you're saying is, if we can ever manage to keep most of our line from missing 3-8 games every single year, we might see a quality O-line?