The first lap felt fine, but you got scared? Did you have a watch going for that first lap, or were they reading off splits there?

The best thing you can do is ditch the watch if you don't want to be afraid. I'm paraphrasing here, but Bob Kennedy once said that when he's running his 5K, he's within a second or two per lap of a pace that will have him collapsing.

You know the pain is going to be there, why be afraid of it? Prepare for it. I know you can't spend five or six hours per day training like golf, but if you want to add some more hours to your training, start with some mental preparation. That can't injure you...I think.

I see that you know what you have to do, so go do it!

Ah that reads poorly, first lap was fine in that I was on pace for what I thought was reasonable to shoot for.

Regardless, +10 to what you have written there. I just need to nut up and go at it hard. I let myself get too intimated worrying about it being a collegiate race and getting last; which as noted, is poor mental performance. The good thing is that's one thing I do have total control over so it entirely solvable.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

Fartlek today, didn't have any sort of timer so I just ran an unstructured fartlek trying to keep the recovery time similar to the "on" time. Shorter on's were around mile effort, mid length ones at 3K effort, and longer ones at 5K effort. Kept the recovery at a fairly strong pace; about the same as my normal easy running. Felt pretty darn good, though perhaps a little lacking in turnover. Workout was tough towards the end, but not brutal.

Now for a few very easy days w/relatively low mileage before we go out to hike/run Pikes Peak.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

Quite happy with how the race went, took it out solid, but not too easy the first mile and did a good job clicking away in the second mile as it began to hurt. 3rd mile was a little weak, quit on it slightly for about 600m or so, but then realized I was being a pansy and let things rip again in the last 1000m or so. Pretty strong finish, though I still need to start my kick a little earlier and crescendo to all out just a little sooner.

I think I have a pretty good shot at a 17:XX by the end of my "season" in October, especially if tapering/peaking ends up doing anything for me.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

In the morning was a 4M tempo run @ 6:40 pace (about 20-25 seconds per mile slower than pavement). That felt good enough, slowly worked my way down for a slightly progressive run, felt good the first two miles, comfortable but starting to work the third mile, and working a little the 4th mile, but nothing brutal.

Then intervals in the evening. Started off tough from the first interval and only got harder. Tough to get going good on tired legs. Was initially shooting for 4-5x1200m in 4:28 working down to 4:18 w/2:30 jog recovery but there was no way that was happening. Ended up doing 1200/1200/800/800/400/400 (2:30 recovery between each) then 4x200 (full recovery). Times of 4:27,4:25,2:54,2:53,1:22,1:22 + (40,37,35,32).

I'm tired. Time to chain some super easy days. That and eat a whole bunch of food.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

In the morning was a 4M tempo run @ 6:40 pace (about 20-25 seconds per mile slower than pavement). That felt good enough, slowly worked my way down for a slightly progressive run, felt good the first two miles, comfortable but starting to work the third mile, and working a little the 4th mile, but nothing brutal.

Then intervals in the evening. Started off tough from the first interval and only got harder. Tough to get going good on tired legs. Was initially shooting for 4-5x1200m in 4:28 working down to 4:18 w/2:30 jog recovery but there was no way that was happening. Ended up doing 1200/1200/800/800/400/400 (2:30 recovery between each) then 4x200 (full recovery). Times of 4:27,4:25,2:54,2:53,1:22,1:22 + (40,37,35,32).

I'm tired. Time to chain some super easy days. That and eat a whole bunch of food.

Why did you do this? You ran a 5K PR 4 days ago then did two hard workouts on the same day?

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

Why did you do this? You ran a 5K PR 4 days ago then did two hard workouts on the same day?

Is 4 days too short of a time to be fully recovered from a race? I took several of the days very easy and was feeling good both yesterday and today.

As for why, primarily as an experiment both to see what it feels like to do and what kinds of effects it will have. Stupid? Quite possibly. We'll see how I feel after some easy recovery days. Honestly though, I didn't completely kill myself today. Yea, I'm fairly wiped out, but I definitely didn't hammer the interval session.

@abe_mend - It's something Canova uses frequently in his training, the first workout is usually a faster steady run, and the second run is some sort of moderate track session. It's usually preceded by 2 days of very easy running, and then followed by 2-4 days of easy recovery running. Felt like trying it as an experience, so I did.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

I am still confused about the planned weight loss. I am almost always at about 150 +-5bls but when I get into a good training regiment and run my best times I am 160+..... just seems odd to me that weight is a focus on this whole thing. Nobody else has said this so perhaps I am off....

I just wanted to comment that if you can make that last .1 in 26 seconds uphill (at most this is a 4:20 pace since it should be just over .1.....) your third mile should not be your slowest. If you could have cut 23 seconds off that mile, even with adding 4 to your last .1 you would be below 18 and at your goal... just something to think about when your rounding out your third mile....

I am still confused about the planned weight loss. I am almost always at about 150 +-5bls but when I get into a good training regiment and run my best times I am 160+..... just seems odd to me that weight is a focus on this whole thing. Nobody else has said this so perhaps I am off....

I just wanted to comment that if you can make that last .1 in 26 seconds uphill (at most this is a 4:20 pace since it should be just over .1.....) your third mile should not be your slowest. If you could have cut 23 seconds off that mile, even with adding 4 to your last .1 you would be below 18 and at your goal... just something to think about when your rounding out your third mile....

Since about August or so when I started doing harder/faster stiff weight loss is on the back burner (i.e. I am just eating based on what my body indicates and not consciously watching calories or doing anything besides trying to eat healthy). After I finish the season I may revisit the issue, or perhaps just run my mileage, eat well, and see what happens.

Agree on the part about last mile. As I believe I mentioned in the race report I lost some focus in the third mile, and slowed quite a bit (30 seconds per mile?) for about 600m or so.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

Is 4 days too short of a time to be fully recovered from a race? I took several of the days very easy and was feeling good both yesterday and today.

As for why, primarily as an experiment both to see what it feels like to do and what kinds of effects it will have. Stupid? Quite possibly. We'll see how I feel after some easy recovery days. Honestly though, I didn't completely kill myself today. Yea, I'm fairly wiped out, but I definitely didn't hammer the interval session.

@abe_mend - It's something Canova uses frequently in his training, the first workout is usually a faster steady run, and the second run is some sort of moderate track session. It's usually preceded by 2 days of very easy running, and then followed by 2-4 days of easy recovery running. Felt like trying it as an experience, so I did.

We are, after all, just imaginary people on the internet. Your post made it sound like you really beat yourself up and couldn't even handle the second workout the way you intended it. Sounds now like perhaps that was misleading?

It's easy to get geeked about a really good race performance and end up driving yourself into the ground. Been there done that, don't want it to happen to you. When things are going well it's human to keep driving harder, when riding the wave of improvement may be the most prudent route.

I have ample experience with the described training (double workouts). Typically the way I used them, bot drawing from Bob Kempainen's logs and the guidance of my then-coach (an Olympian), they were marathon-focused workouts meaning the intervals were noticably slower than they otherwise would have been. Also the workouts were back-to-back with just a couple easy miles in between, not separated by many hours.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

Since about August or so when I started doing harder/faster stiff weight loss is on the back burner (i.e. I am just eating based on what my body indicates and not consciously watching calories or doing anything besides trying to eat healthy). After I finish the season I may revisit the issue, or perhaps just run my mileage, eat well, and see what happens.

Agree on the part about last mile. As I believe I mentioned in the race report I lost some focus in the third mile, and slowed quite a bit (30 seconds per mile?) for about 600m or so.

We are, after all, just imaginary people on the internet. Your post made it sound like you really beat yourself up and couldn't even handle the second workout the way you intended it. Sounds now like perhaps that was misleading?

It's easy to get geeked about a really good race performance and end up driving yourself into the ground. Been there done that, don't want it to happen to you. When things are going well it's human to keep driving harder, when riding the wave of improvement may be the most prudent route.

I have ample experience with the described training (double workouts). Typically the way I used them, bot drawing from Bob Kempainen's logs and the guidance of my then-coach (an Olympian), they were marathon-focused workouts meaning the intervals were noticably slower than they otherwise would have been. Also the workouts were back-to-back with just a couple easy miles in between, not separated by many hours.

Yea, sorry if that sounded exaggerated. It was a tough day and I was quite tired at the end of it. But it was more of a "I definitely wouldn't want to go out and run three more miles" as opposed to a "I barely stumbled into the door and made it to the couch before collapsing" kind of tired. Admittedly I wasn't able to do the second workout the way I intended to, however in hindsight that second workout was probably too hard for that sort of day anyway, as it seems to be intended as to more moderate workouts, as opposed to a moderate workout and a tough/very tough workout.

Felt a little sore on Thursday, and pretty sluggish on Friday, but yesterday felt good and today quite good. Planning to take one to two more days as very light general running days to start this week, and then some race pace type work W or TR.

Thinking something around 60 miles this week, then maybe 50-55 the next week (race on 22nd), tapering to about 45 or so "goal week", which would be my race on the 29th. Then probably two weeks off after that.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

If anybody has thoughts on what would be a good way to structure these next two weeks ("goal" race would be on 29th) I'd certainly be interested in hearing your thoughts. No idea what I should do this week, and thinking maybe just some light, quick 200's with nice recovery on monday/tuesday of race week.

Having never really been here before I'm not really sure of the best approach to feeling fresh and ready to rock for a race is.

They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

You've got it right for race week. This week, I'd actually get a workout in that has you sucking air. Say 6X600 with 90sec recovery or something like that. Jog 5min, then do 6X200m accelerations.

The adaptations that come the fastest leave the fastest and vice versa. You can't do much to your aerobic ability in these two weeks, in other words. However, you can pump up the enzymes that will help you hold speed at the end of the race and tolerate lactate, as well as the neuromuscular conditioning to stay relaxed running fast. So you want to do some things that will get you into the uncomfortable zone (600s run at near usual 400 pace are good) as well as the 200m accelerations to get comfortable running fast so 5K pace feels easier.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand