The cheapest I've found them is 23.99 a piece which is very expensive but I think I would like them better than the DMM Belaymaster. I've never used the belay master, but I think having to lock the screwgate, just to shut the plastic retainer whenever I put a belay master on a gear loop would be really annoying. These just have a miniature wire gate at the bottom to keep your belay loop in place.

I know simond has some the Goliath and the Spider but the Goliath is impossible to find in the US, and I don't really like the design of the Spider, plus this Galaxy is a bit stronger than the Spider. Also, it looks like the Spider and Goliath miniature wire gate opens in the direction the belay loop would be trying to press anyway, so it doesn't seem very effective.

Any way, just checking to see if anyone has used them and find them convenient or so inconvenient they find themselves never using them.

Between the questionable web translator and my questionable German it seems the first guy liked it, the second had minor reservations due to size and the last one was disappointed.

In reply to:

Rating: 5 out of 5 stars The ideal backup for eighth and HMS carabiner! The twisting of the rifle is no longer possible. .

Rating: 4 out of 5 stars 'm Really satisfied, although large, "there" but to secure a very safe feeling when. .

Rating: 3 out of 5 stars I am enttäscht. 1. huge part 2. twistlock naja good for pitches, but ...... naja halt complicated 3.the small wire snapper, snaps but is not just there and closes very lax. Conclusion: not very well thought out from Vaude.

finally a solution!, i hate it when my rifle twists while i'm belaying

Between the questionable web translator and my questionable German it seems the first guy liked it, the second had minor reservations due to size and the last one was disappointed.

In reply to:

Rating: 5 out of 5 stars The ideal backup for eighth and HMS carabiner! The twisting of the rifle is no longer possible. .

Rating: 4 out of 5 stars 'm Really satisfied, although large, "there" but to secure a very safe feeling when. .

Rating: 3 out of 5 stars I am enttäscht. 1. huge part 2. twistlock naja good for pitches, but ...... naja halt complicated 3.the small wire snapper, snaps but is not just there and closes very lax. Conclusion: not very well thought out from Vaude.

The machine and you are roughly right. The first one really liked it and even says that it now is impossible to twist the biner when belaying with an 8 or munter. Somehow i cant believe that. Especially for an 8 since there is still a lot of room for the 8 to move around due to the giantic size of the biner. The second like it and says its rahter big, but gives a safe feeling when belaying. Whatever that means And the last one doesnt like it since it is to big, and he thinks twistlock is too complicated (but nice for belays) and he doesnt like the action of the little wiregate since it doesnt "snap" shut but rahter is closing very weak (hard to dexcribe, i think he means like a worn and dirty wiregate, that gets sticky).

My opinions (but ihavent tried it): Worthless. Its way to big and bulky, and it seems like it doesnt add to much safety (if any at all). If you are belaying with an 8 (I know that this is another discussion by itself, but lets ignore this) you still have way too much room for the 8 to move around, so the issue of the 8 braking you gate might still be there. Also the biner is really long, so i would guess it makes the handling rather awkward. When belaying with a tube/ATC/similar it could provide some benefits but personally i do not see these warranting the size and weight increase over a small munter locker like this. And last but not least: When belaying with a munter i have never found the need for anything special apart from a pear shape.

If you want the added safety (especiall for belaying with an 8, or making it really hard for the biner to become crossloaded (like in situations where you NEED to be tied in with a biner, or any other where you depend on a single biner)) go with the DMM belay master. Yes, the plastic does make it harder to rack, but i havent had problems with mine. However if you want to use it with a munter i strongly advice you to hunt for the old model. While hot forging is really nice, there is one place it absolutely sucks: munter hitches. I cant stand it to have anything else than perfectly round stock for this application. Hence i got the WC synergy lite.

Late to the party, REI has these on sale and I got a few. Qwert shares most of my thoughts. The DMM Belaymaster will keep it oriented where you need it, whereas the Edelrid can be easily popped off orientation. For soloing, where a few seconds more to get it screwed then clipped means less than having it perfect, I'd go Belaymaster. For long alpine routes of many many pitches, or where your hands might be clawlike and near inoperable due to cold or gloves: I'd go with this one, the Edelrid HMS Strike FG Screwgate Locking Carabiner.

My experience, if i climbing with others, the DMM belay master is far more obvious than carabiners with a extra clip. The extra clip is often missed and people end up putting a load on the clip, because they do did not noticed it had to clipped in.

These I think are also discontinued now, as REI is selling them for $11. I have one, and it is a bit of a PITA to use except for specific things, like leaving it clipped to your belay loop in the gym. The wire keeper is fussy to keep clipping and unclipping, and it doesn't have much room to squeeze large ropes past the keeper (the wire keeper does what it's suppsed to do, however). The model I have (pictured in the link) is also small for an HMS 'biner, and not very useful when I've wanted to clip it into a powerpoint on a cordelette.

These I think are also discontinued now, as REI is selling them for $11. I have one, and it is a bit of a PITA to use except for specific things, like leaving it clipped to your belay loop in the gym. The wire keeper is fussy to keep clipping and unclipping, and it doesn't have much room to squeeze large ropes past the keeper (the wire keeper does what it's suppsed to do, however).

Squeeze large ropes past the keeper???

Am I understanding you correctly? It sounds to me like you are putting the rope in between the wiregate and the narrow end of the biner.

Is that what you are doing???

ebmudder wrote:

The model I have (pictured in the link) is also small for an HMS 'biner, and not very useful when I've wanted to clip it into a powerpoint on a cordelette.

It's about the same size as the venerable Petzl Attache. Do you consider that to be small for an HMS?

Am I understanding you correctly? It sounds to me like you are putting the rope in between the wiregate and the narrow end of the biner.

Is that what you are doing???

Sorry for not being clear...I meant, if I wanted to use it at the powerpoint of an anchor for tying in and/or belaying a second...I realize that sounded weird after re-reading it.

In reply to:

It's about the same size as the venerable Petzl Attache. Do you consider that to be small for an HMS?

It's smaller than all my other HMS 'biners, including my Omega, Mammut and BD HMS. It's barely larger than my standard-size BD locker. See pic...the difference is not huge, but yes, in my hand it feels a lot smaller.

Am I understanding you correctly? It sounds to me like you are putting the rope in between the wiregate and the narrow end of the biner.

Is that what you are doing???

Sorry for not being clear...I meant, if I wanted to use it at the powerpoint of an anchor for tying in and/or belaying a second...I realize that sounded weird after re-reading it.

In reply to:

It's about the same size as the venerable Petzl Attache. Do you consider that to be small for an HMS?

It's smaller than all my other HMS 'biners, including my Omega, Mammut and BD HMS. It's barely larger than my standard-size BD locker. See pic...the difference is not huge, but yes, in my hand it feels a lot smaller.

I don't see why anyone would use it for anything other than belaying. All you'd need is one of these and it would stay with the belay device.

I don't see why anyone would use it for anything other than belaying. All you'd need is one of these and it would stay with the belay device.

Agreed, that was my original point (it works fine when hanging it off my belay loop). But if you're trad climbing, it's nice to have gear (biners especially) not dedicated to a specific purpose, or at least where you don't have to assign it a specific task since it's less useful in other situations. Not a big deal either way...use the gear that you're most comfortable with.

Found one that, IMO, outperforms both the Galaxy and the DMM Belaymaster. Mammut Element Smart HMS Locking Carabiner with Safety Gate, which REI has on sale currently for $12.73, having had it on closeout earlier for a meager $7.73. It is significantly faster to set up as the gate is a twist lock, and not a screwgate. Love it, but I like doing multipitch and taking something like this on and off multiple times a day I want fast and easy: which this is. http://www.rei.com/...afety-gate-overstock

If I was to use it for soloing, which is one of the greatest uses for these kinds of products, I might stick with the DMM for security reasons, although the fear that a twistlock might undo itself may be only in my head, it's still in my head:-)

The plastic "gate" on the Mammut prevents the twist-lock mechanism from rotating and allowing the 'biner to unlatch. The gate also prevents the 'biner from twisting in your belay loop and potentially getting cross-loaded and/or unlatched by the rope running across lock. I picked one up on sale and it's extremely beefy and larger than any of my other HMS 'biners.

I think it would be comparable to a conventional screw-lock HMS 'biner in terms of safety for soloing. The main point of the redundancy in the locking mech is to prevent it from being opened by a Munter hitch, which unless you lose your descender or solo without one is unlikely. But if you are the type of climber that needs to have infallible trust in their gear, go with the gear that gives you the greatest trust, or the gear you are most familiar with.

In terms of speed of use, the difference is minimal in the course of the day. A better decision point is which is easier to manipulate when wet, or blindfolded, or opposite-handed (or buzzed), or any other condition where you need to be sure that it's locked down.