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I think some of the confusion about whether you can MAKE someone go to the hospital...it seems to me that an overdose could be seen as the person being a danger to her or him self, and they could be put under what is generally called a "psych hold"-an involuntary admission to a psychiatric ward or facility to be evaluated.I had to go to probate court and have my father(an alcoholic) declared incompetent so that we as a family could PROTECT him from endangering himself in various ways.

I've seen situations where, IMO, competency hearings and psych holds were used as means to control a person and force their compliance with someone else's agenda, or to damage someone's credibility, but there ARE circumstances where a person can be compelled to undergo evaluation, or be ruled incompetent, therefore allowing someone to be appointed as a guardian(yes, it can be a family member over 18).

So, while a mentally competent person may have the right to refuse medical treatment, someone who has overdosed on pills or drank themselves into a disturbed mental state may be hospitalized for evaluation-(I think it generally is 72 hrs max). I would think that a person who had overdosed on pills or combined pills and alcohol could be deemed "suicidal" and therefore meet the "involuntary pysch hold" criteria.Understand that I am not current on all the latest information on this topic, and it may vary from state to state.

But as far as your decision, I think that first and foremost you need to make sure that your children are not being negatively impacted by contact with their grandmother. It's nice to be able to teach patience, compassion and tolerance for human failing, but sometimes being overly exposed to human failing actually works COUNTER to that,and teaches a child to be impatient and judgemental-or AFRAID!-of people with problems.Cindy O

Wow, that’s quite a handful. Please understand I in no way intended to second-guess or doubt your decisions or your timing, OK? (smiles). You’re the one in the middle of this. And as caregiver to your children, it’s doubly important that you take care of yourself. And be supported! Best…

gingernutbiscuites- I can't invite her because if I do, no one will come. She has alienated everyone but me. I'm trying here, give me a break.You have NO idea the way she is.She has called DHR on my sister more than once out of spite, tried to make her husband lose his job, when my mothers husband was still alive she would cut his tires, cut up his clothes, she caused him to lose two jobs showing up there drunk. My brother lost his best friend their senior year of high school in a car accident. He was given his friends gun, the only thing he had of his and my mother took it and broke it in a drunken rage. When my grandmother was still alive I found out she was taking her social security checks and cashing them to buy booze. I let her borrow my tv once and she pawned it to get alcohol. When my grand mother passed away she took her wedding silverware and sold that to get drugs.People feel the way they do about her for a reason.I have tried and tried with her and I'm worn out. Why can't you GET that?!

preachers, She didnt turn her back on her mom. Her mom choose drugs over her and her kids.

Op. You have way too much on your plate. It is time to take care of YOU, and your children.Glad your dad, did the right thing.As hard as it might be, it sounds like it might be time, to take your mom out of your life. Dont let her play the guilt trip on you. The guilt is all her's. It sounds like you did all you could. A person could only take so much!!!

Only sharing my thoughts here...I was thinking a semi-tough love approach. Taking on board comments posted here, if it were me, I might continue seeing her but without the kids in tow..for as long as my sanity can handle it. If she does well for a year without relapsing then I'd bring the kids along (or else start the cycle again). Also, I'd try to see if I can personally help counter the non-biological cause of her addictions. Is there anything besides getting high that makes her go for the pills, a trigger. What else can I do to help that is within my reasonable control. That sort of thing.

They often continue and blame ill health or circumstance for their habits.

I wouldn't dismiss this so quickly. Long-term ill health can cause somebody to become depressed, especially where theres a predisposition to it. Whatever the circumstances, health and/or otherwise, I refer back to what I said above, I'd be asking myself how I could be of more practical help.

gingernutbiscuites- Through all of this I have never felt sorry for myself. It's a bad situation, but I just put on my big girl pants and keep going. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. I have my children, friends, my dad and his family, my siblings, an education and I'm proud of myself all things considered.I just wanted to know if I should still go see her now and then, go to lunch, etc.I didn't want to share that much detail, it's embarrassing and painful, but I felt I needed to so I would stop getting asked why no one else has anything to do with her.You get it now, I hope.

She has called DHR on my sister more than once out of spite, tried to make her husband lose his job, when my mothers husband was still alive she would cut his tires, cut up his clothes, she caused him to lose two jobs showing up there drunk. My brother lost his best friend their senior year of high school in a car accident. He was given his friends gun, the only thing he had of his and my mother took it and broke it in a drunken rage. When my grandmother was still alive I found out she was taking her social security checks and cashing them to buy booze. I let her borrow my tv once and she pawned it to get alcohol. When my grand mother passed away she took her wedding silverware and sold that to get drugs.People feel the way they do about her for a reason.I have tried and tried with her and I'm worn out

There is not a thing here that surprises me......You MUST go to those meetings....People that are so quickly to chastise you here..have no idea what you are dealing with.She is your mother but the person you are dealing with is no longer a normal...thinking...thankful....human being. She has a demon inside her....It's tough to be strong because you are the one caring...she's not at this point...Your siblings may seem uncaring to you but they are the ones doing the right things..I've been in your shoes....after years of trying to help....I Had to cut all ties....the verdict is still out whether this person will help themselves....I worry everyday!Good Luck...

Whisky River- I'm not sure if you saw my previous post about my wisdom tooth. It's broke off down to the gum and infection has set in below the root and into my jaw.I'm going to the dentist Monday for a consult with surgery to follow for the dentist to surgically remove it.After I get past that, I WILL go to an al-a-non meeting, I know I need to.I am so grateful to you and all the other people here on POF who have understood and reached out to me.As far as my siblings, I am the oldest of the three and feel protective of them. My mother has put us all through hell, but I will not judge them for how they feel. I don't think they are uncaring, I think they are human beings that just can't take anymore hurt.I'm going to be ok, I've been through this for so long, but I would be lying if I said that I don't feel down every now and then too.Thank you for understanding.

At some point, her substance abuse will catch up to her, affecting her health-probably sooner rather than later. Who has power of attorney if/when she's not able to care for herself? If you have it, that might the only time you can get control of her life and get her help she needs. Until then, there isn't much more you can do. If she's approaching her senior years, or is there already, it won't be long before her world caves in on her and will need assistance to exist and might not be mentally capable of making decisions affecting her health, which is where the power of attorney comes in and makes all of the decisions for her.

I understand how you might worry and feel because mental health illness is hard to understand. . Many people suffer with suicidale thoughts and depression. You should look at it as any illness. It is harder to understand because we still do not know much about the brain. But just as the rest of the body can suffer with cancer or other illnesses the brain can also. We just haven't spent enough research on it and it is still one of those things people like to keep hushed up. Once you understand and educate yourself about this, you will see that her saying she wont' do it again, is how she feels but the brain is sick. she can't make that promise, nor can she just by saying it heal her mind. Many drugs are given but they yet have found drugs that will help without causing many other side affects. We don't even cover the mental health on insurance like all other kinds of illnesses.

You should continue to have contact. With the kids it doesn't hurt to keep them in her life as long as you are there with them. I would never leave them alone because of the illness.If you read and learn , have empathy for it as an illness it will help a great deal dealing with it . Because of the shame and fear people have about mental health it has been even harder for loved ones to deal with. How many times do people take the fear of mental illness and worry others will look at family as ill because of the genes? All the time. So people hide in shame instead of feeling how they should for someone with any kind of illness.

You can't feel responsible if she does harm herself, and I would suggest you read as much as possible and also explain to others that it is no different than any other illness.Many mentally challenged people resort to drugs and alcohol,

If you can see beyond the things she is using to numb her pain of the mind, you can maybe give love and compassion. YOu should not feel guilty but must also protect yourself from living her life instead of your own. You have a right to keep contact at a minimum but you also have a right to be happy. Do what you can, but don't let it consume you. And dont' ever think you can change it on your own. Just like with an alcoholic or drug addict, you can't MAKE it change or any illness. You might want to fix it but is not up to you, except to do your best, know it isn't in your ability to fix.

If she had terminal cancer, a brain tumor, or other illness would you cut her off?

Bamagirl, in a sense, you can't win in this deal. If you are able to compel power of attorney or guardianship, she may never forgive you- my dad never forgave me but at least we saved him from becoming a crime victim,we were able to get him into an AFC, and keep him from burning through his money-or being a mugging/robbery victim, he would wander around or take taxicabs to bars with huge amounts of cash on him-it was HIS ATTORNEY who contacted me about going to probate court. I do not regret the damage that my actions did to my relationship with my dad, we were able to improve the quality of his life and extend it for a few years. I'm just letting you know that whatever you decide to do-or not do-will have a downside, you just have to be prepared to accept that.But for right now, I agree that you need to take care of your own health first, and when you get feeling better perhaps it will be easier to see your best course of action.I wish you luck-and peace!Cindy O

OP, I am sorry that you have to go through this with your mother. I think that you are doing the right thing by not allowing her near your children, there is no point in them becoming attached to a grandparent who is not going to be there due to her own choices.

Yes, she is an addict, yes, she has a problem and yes, as her child you want to help her and fix it. You need to remember that she is the only one who can fix it. Regardless of what others are saying about you being able to do more, call the ambulance, have her committed etc, there really isn't thing you can do. If she is conscious and her life is not in danger, she can refuse to get in the ambulance and there is nothing anyone can do about that. Yes you can call the police and have her arrested for illegal drug use, but that probably won't do much good either. Drugs are readily available in prison as well. As to having her comitted, drug addiction is not considered to be a commitable mental disorder, as the doctors I use to work with in mental health would say, you can't commit or find people incapable for bad choices and stupid decisions, if you could then half the world belongs in a mental health facility.

The only thing I can suggest is something that has already been said, get help for yourself. Go to Al-anon or some other support group so that you can talk to others who are going through the same thing you are.

As I said. Walk. She is an adult and can make her own choices. You throw a person a life ring for a reason. If they refuse it...... And you go after them they will climb on you and push you under in order for them to survive. This is NOT the time to try to be a hero.

Sure she is a victim... Of her own actions... You want to be dragged down also?

janem- It is hard and I'm so thankful to you and the others who have understood that this is painful for me, but that I must step back unless she stops.I have been through this before, had her tell me she would stop, her go to rehab and relapse, all her spiteful behavior, etc..All the people suggesting I force her into rehab or a mental hospital have no idea how the system works, it's a lot harder to do than people think, I know, I've looked into all the possibilitys.I scheduled my surgery today, it's next Wednesday (November 7th).I must get this surgery to keep myself healthy, so my mother is going to have to wait until I recover.It may not be up to me anymore, she called me again today, just to tell me to forget she exists.For once instead of feeling bad, I got mad. Her manipulations are over.When I recover, I will tell her again to get help or I'm gone.IF she chooses help, then I will assist her.

OP you did the best thing you could do by NOT letting her manipulate you into coming out late at night like that.

You cannot help an addict as much as it hurts and as much as you want to you just can't. They have to want the help. You can't do it for them. Her doctor should be made aware, if they don't know, that she's abusing the pills.