Klaudandus wrote:I wonder what's the clearance rate for HoF and ToES -- is it being cleared at a lower pace than 4.0?

To be honest... I felt my raid progressed faster in Cata than it is currently doing in MoP. Part of it is a bunch of real life throwing shit at my guildies, but I'll say this -- IT'S NOT FUN

Our first month and a half of raiding had that entire real life shit plus holidays. I think in the first two months we had one week where we did both nights. Toss in several one offs of people missing days, a new baby eating a week, it has been slow for us but about 70% of it has not really been content difficulty related.

Discounting all the real life and holidays shit, it still feels slower when it comes to boss progression in 5.0 than it did back in 4.0 -- at least for my raid group.

I'm being told that apparently, we may need to look for a new tank and a new healer, as the two currents can't manage a single night of raiding with three daughters.

Which, I totally get the kid thing, but at the same time...it's a single night. And it's not a fricken Satanic ritual when they ask to take a 5 minute to put the kids to bed.

/headdesk

Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.

Klaudandus wrote:Discounting all the real life and holidays shit, it still feels slower when it comes to boss progression in 5.0 than it did back in 4.0 -- at least for my raid group.

I'm having trouble remembering anything in 4.0, other than final bosses (Cho'gal, Nef and Al'akir), that had anything close to the throughput checks non final bosses in 5.0 have.

Elegon and Garalon for example.

It just feels weird that Elegon comes before Will but required 10 times the pulls (2 vs 20 something for our group). Also HoF was much more difficult than Terrace. Garalon and Amber Shaper took far more pulls than anything in Terrace.

I think the tuning was a bit wonky for the 5.0 encounters in their expected order. In 4.0 there was also some flexibilty in kill order where 5.0 is completely linear.

On progression of T14 v T11, I'd say its slower. I saw GC congratulate someone on their heroic sha kill of 21 jan - as US 22nd, thats a bit slower than what I remember from T11 (4 months, and only 22nd US)

I too feel like we moved faster in Cata than we are in Mists. We're only 5/16 right now, though we were really hamstrung by the holidays, and having lost a healer for several months, having to make do with an offspec healer who only really put out (maybe) half the output of the lost healer.

Since that healer's come back, we've actually done serious progression on Elegon and Blade Lord for the first time in months.

But you're right about the throughput checks on bosses. Hour of Twilight had three dance fights (Halfus, the Dragon pair, and the Twilight Council), and then a nasty dance/output fight. Blackwing had a couple dances to start (Magmaw and Omnitronks), then a healing check...something (Chimaeron, a very odd fight), a very interesting dance (Blindy the Magic Dragon), and an add-control dancey fight (Maloriak), and it capped with a major output fight in Nef.

To me, most of the Cata fights, I felt our wipes were on mechanics. Now at least, the two bosses we're stuck on is because of dps not being able to put out the numbers necessary to hammer things. I didn't really feel we hit that stage until Nef and Cho'gall in Cata.

"There’s one thing you never put in a trap, if you’re smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans about seeing tomorrow, there’s one thing you never, ever put in a trap.......Me." - The 11th Doctor

Amirya wrote: And it's not a fricken Satanic ritual when they ask to take a 5 minute to put the kids to bed.

How can you be so sure that they aren't performing a Satanic ritual when they put them to bed?

Wellll...they could be...but here's why I doubt that (at least with the healer).

Whenever we do Feng, I am the one who says, "and after Epicenter, GET OUT OF THE CENTER. DO NOT GET HIT BY THE LIGHTNING." So this past weekend, Feng wound up all skewed, so instead of doing his lightning whatever down the center, he did it off to the side. I almost ran into it, saw it in time, and went the other way.

She ran straight into it (and died). "OMG. I blame Ami, she had me terrified of staying in the center, so I just ran!"

Being a scary person has its amusements.

Fetzie wrote:The Defias Brotherhood is back, and this time they are acting as racketeers in Goldshire. Anybody wishing to dance for money must now pay them protection money or be charged triple the normal amount when repairing.

CrimsonEyes wrote:To me, most of the Cata fights, I felt our wipes were on mechanics. Now at least, the two bosses we're stuck on is because of dps not being able to put out the numbers necessary to hammer things. I didn't really feel we hit that stage until Nef and Cho'gall in Cata.

CrimsonEyes wrote:To me, most of the Cata fights, I felt our wipes were on mechanics. Now at least, the two bosses we're stuck on is because of dps not being able to put out the numbers necessary to hammer things. I didn't really feel we hit that stage until Nef and Cho'gall in Cata.

Agreed.

I like the cut of your jib.

And that you use the second-best Pony as your avatar.

But in seriousness, we've GOT the mechanics for Elegon now, tanks have the plan, can do the switch, can take the hits, and the dps know to switch, to clear stacks, and etc, and we're doing four stacks of the debuff each sparks phase, dps just aren't outputting enough pain.

Same with Blade Lord, he's falling WAAAY too fast during Phase 1, we've had to use Bloodlust off the start to get him to Phase 2 before we exhaust our free space....and that's not good at ALL. Again, we've got the dance in all areas, just bigger numbers are what's needed.

That very much wasn't the case in first Tier of Cata, where I could easily point to Mechanic X and say 'soon as we stop derping it up on that mechanic, we can DO this!', at least until the very end bosses.

"There’s one thing you never put in a trap, if you’re smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans about seeing tomorrow, there’s one thing you never, ever put in a trap.......Me." - The 11th Doctor

Same with Blade Lord, he's falling WAAAY too fast during Phase 1, we've had to use Bloodlust off the start to get him to Phase 2 before we exhaust our free space....and that's not good at ALL. Again, we've got the dance in all areas, just bigger numbers are what's needed.

Isn't that when you are supposed to use bloodlust at Blade Lord? It is the only time in the fight where you can basically sit and cast for 40 straight seconds.

"There’s one thing you never put in a trap, if you’re smart. If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans about seeing tomorrow, there’s one thing you never, ever put in a trap.......Me." - The 11th Doctor

CrimsonEyes wrote:To me, most of the Cata fights, I felt our wipes were on mechanics. Now at least, the two bosses we're stuck on is because of dps not being able to put out the numbers necessary to hammer things. I didn't really feel we hit that stage until Nef and Cho'gall in Cata.

Agreed.

Not to mention that certain classes with more spikey dps have it rough on Elegon as well. My newly former raid team had huge issues there for a few weeks until some gear and some strategy changes evened things out on the sparks.

Amirya wrote:... because everyone needs a Catagonskin rug.

twinkfist wrote:i feel bad for the Mogu...having to deal with alcoholic bears.

night-day swings (and the associated physical funkiness) as a result of having to cover builds at work. Upside is my boss is totally cool with the fact that most humans can't work all night then all day while still being useful, and so I won't need to be in again until later in the afternoon.

But so far, it's been boring. Which is good - when things get exciting for project management, it seems to always be 'ZOMG, there's fire raining from the sky and it's all your fault' kinda exciting.

I miss science sometimes - at least there excitement had happy yelling.

Flex wrote:Our healer who DPSed in mostly heal gear did similar and sometimes better DPS than a hunter.

OP disc that's getting nerfed? Disc would be more reliable on the sparks. Hunter looses a lot from pet movement on that fight.

Actually, pet moevement can easily be planned around - its more a matter of managing focus, for both hunter and pet (pulling the pet back between sparks so it starts with 120 (BM) focus for guaranteed double damage basic attacks really helps, I could easily do my own spark and assist on one of the other 2 on my side)

CrimsonEyes wrote:But in seriousness, we've GOT the mechanics for Elegon now, tanks have the plan, can do the switch, can take the hits, and the dps know to switch, to clear stacks, and etc, and we're doing four stacks of the debuff each sparks phase, dps just aren't outputting enough pain.

Try doing 5 and 3 instead. Remember the sparks go faster, so the more sparks you can do the first time around, the more time you have to dps elegion (out of the spark phase) - also, the more sparks you do in the first go, the more increased damage you lod on him in the second P1 (pushing him faster down).

Changing from attempting 4/4 to 5/3 was what got us our first kill, and after we nailed it we could even get a kill on 5/2.