I don't think the Lions are out of the running yet. Avril making the statements he's making is all a part of the business end of things. If Avril really thinks about it, he has to realize that part of his success last season came from teams concentrating their efforts on stopping our DTs and leaving him alone against a single man. In years past the Lions had no threat of an inside pass rush. Even Tulloch blitzing from the inside helped Avril get some sacks.

It's all a matter of just how realistic of an approach Avril takes to things. I have a feeling if he were to sign with another team in free agency that doesn't have the same talent inside (few teams, if any, do) he'll have his money but he won't have the success any longer.

It depends what his ends are... I really think another team would pay him $10-12 and I don't think he's worth it. So what if he falls on his face and only gets 6-8 sacks for the rest of his career. As long as he goes to a location where he wants to play, they play well and win, and he gets paid, what does it matter what his numbers are, to him anyway?

Sure, there's a small possibility that he'll get cut (I think he'd play well enough to keep his spot on a roster), but even if that happened someone will pick him up at an appropriate salary. There's a SMALL possibility that he'll lose money on his "next contract" if he totally plays through whatever contract he signs, but he'll probably be 30-31 by then anyhow.

I'd much rather have Tracy Porter than C. Finn... I see Finn happening, and I hate it...

February 20th, 2012, 2:58 pm

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2422Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Cortland Finnegan

Quote:

I see Finn happening, and I hate it...

Me too. I don't even think his own teammates in TEN like him

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

February 20th, 2012, 6:21 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cortland Finnegan

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It depends what his ends are... I really think another team would pay him $10-12 and I don't think he's worth it. So what if he falls on his face and only gets 6-8 sacks for the rest of his career. As long as he goes to a location where he wants to play, they play well and win, and he gets paid, what does it matter what his numbers are, to him anyway?

There are some players in the NFL that, even when they get paid, they continue to strive to be the best. Look at Jared Allen. He got a fat contract from Minnesota, but his production only improved. Personally, I think Avril is a good, but not great, pass rusher. Yes, the Lions system helps him. But that's true on just about any team with a good pass rusher or two. If nobody else plays well, the other team will be able to stop that guy. It's tough to say whether Avril will be the guy like Allen, who continues to strive to be better, or a Haynesworth.

I am thinking that if the Lions can't get Avril to an affordable deal, they will tag and trade him, most likely to Tennessee. Aside from the obvious connections, Tennessee is the team that needs a DE the most. I could see them trading the 20th pick for him, and maybe even a latter round pick thrown in. Given Avrils production that past two seasons, his relative youth and their dire need, they can get a proven player instead of gambling with that pick on a one year wonder like Whitney Mercilus. Other teams that may be interested could be some 34 teams like the Pats, the Packers or maybe the Jets. Avril played a 34 OLB in college for a couple years, and as I recall he was viewed by many draft experts as a better prospect as a 34 OLB than a 43 DE.

Whatever the case, the Lions aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him. If they do, they are going to get BBQed in the press by the fans and media alike, and they'll be the sorrier for it. System or not, 11.5 sacks is something not easily replaceable.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 21st, 2012, 10:53 am

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cortland Finnegan

m2karateman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It depends what his ends are... I really think another team would pay him $10-12 and I don't think he's worth it. So what if he falls on his face and only gets 6-8 sacks for the rest of his career. As long as he goes to a location where he wants to play, they play well and win, and he gets paid, what does it matter what his numbers are, to him anyway?

There are some players in the NFL that, even when they get paid, they continue to strive to be the best. Look at Jared Allen. He got a fat contract from Minnesota, but his production only improved. Personally, I think Avril is a good, but not great, pass rusher. Yes, the Lions system helps him. But that's true on just about any team with a good pass rusher or two. If nobody else plays well, the other team will be able to stop that guy. It's tough to say whether Avril will be the guy like Allen, who continues to strive to be better, or a Haynesworth.

I am thinking that if the Lions can't get Avril to an affordable deal, they will tag and trade him, most likely to Tennessee. Aside from the obvious connections, Tennessee is the team that needs a DE the most. I could see them trading the 20th pick for him, and maybe even a latter round pick thrown in. Given Avrils production that past two seasons, his relative youth and their dire need, they can get a proven player instead of gambling with that pick on a one year wonder like Whitney Mercilus. Other teams that may be interested could be some 34 teams like the Pats, the Packers or maybe the Jets. Avril played a 34 OLB in college for a couple years, and as I recall he was viewed by many draft experts as a better prospect as a 34 OLB than a 43 DE.

Whatever the case, the Lions aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him. If they do, they are going to get BBQed in the press by the fans and media alike, and they'll be the sorrier for it. System or not, 11.5 sacks is something not easily replaceable.

Id do it. Hate to say it, and I love having Avril on the team, but Id rather they trade him and get a first rounder than keep him for the amount of money hes gonna want.

February 21st, 2012, 4:23 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Cortland Finnegan

m2karateman wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

It depends what his ends are... I really think another team would pay him $10-12 and I don't think he's worth it. So what if he falls on his face and only gets 6-8 sacks for the rest of his career. As long as he goes to a location where he wants to play, they play well and win, and he gets paid, what does it matter what his numbers are, to him anyway?

There are some players in the NFL that, even when they get paid, they continue to strive to be the best. Look at Jared Allen. He got a fat contract from Minnesota, but his production only improved. Personally, I think Avril is a good, but not great, pass rusher. Yes, the Lions system helps him. But that's true on just about any team with a good pass rusher or two. If nobody else plays well, the other team will be able to stop that guy. It's tough to say whether Avril will be the guy like Allen, who continues to strive to be better, or a Haynesworth.

I am thinking that if the Lions can't get Avril to an affordable deal, they will tag and trade him, most likely to Tennessee. Aside from the obvious connections, Tennessee is the team that needs a DE the most. I could see them trading the 20th pick for him, and maybe even a latter round pick thrown in. Given Avrils production that past two seasons, his relative youth and their dire need, they can get a proven player instead of gambling with that pick on a one year wonder like Whitney Mercilus. Other teams that may be interested could be some 34 teams like the Pats, the Packers or maybe the Jets. Avril played a 34 OLB in college for a couple years, and as I recall he was viewed by many draft experts as a better prospect as a 34 OLB than a 43 DE.

Whatever the case, the Lions aren't going to just let him walk without getting something for him. If they do, they are going to get BBQed in the press by the fans and media alike, and they'll be the sorrier for it. System or not, 11.5 sacks is something not easily replaceable.

I don't disagree that there are plenty of players that earn their big pay day and keep playing. My point was more that I don't think Avril will be as successful on another team. There are personnel issues (where ever he goes he's not likely going to have DTs drawing double teams on a consistent basis, getting pressure up the middle, and forcing the Qb out of the pocket into Avril's arms... remember, we're only talking about 4-5 plays a YEAR), and there are scheme issues.

I'm not a fan of the wide 9, especially if we're not up buy 14 points, but it does have its pluses. While Avril may have gotten more tackles if we weren't using the wide 9, he probably wouldn't have gotten as many sacks, and that's what is drawing his big payday.

I don't think Willie Young would get 11.5, but I think he'd get at least 8 if he was an every day starter. We're talking about paying $8 million dollars for for 3.5 sacks. No thanks, I'll take the draft pick. Not to mention. I don't know what Avril and his backup got, but I'd be willing to bet that Willie Young + a first round DE would come damn close combined to last years #'s, at a fraction of the cost (about 1/4 of what it would cost to just keep Avril).

The same can't be said for CB. If we draft a CB that CB's production isn't likely going to be much better than the person that they were replacing, and the CB's rookie mistakes are going to cost this team dearly. Remember, when a rookie DE makes a mistake he has 7 people backing him up. When a rookie CB makes a mistake he has one, if he's lucky.

That said, IMO Tracy Porter, Brandon Carr, and to a lesser extent even Aaron Ross are much better options than Finn. I really think Schwartz will push hard to get Finn, but I think it would be a HUGE mistake. Get younger, and better, and secure a #1 CB for the next 4-6 years in Porter/Carr.

February 21st, 2012, 4:33 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cortland Finnegan

Ill understand the disappointment if we do sign Finn, but at the same time I trust the coaches and FO's decision and think they know a heck of a lot more about what theyre doing than any of us.

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: Cortland Finnegan

BillySims wrote:

How does Avril to the Eagles for Asante Samuel sound?

I'd be against because Avril is younger, if I'm not mistaken, and I don't think Samuel is that much better than Wright. When he was with the Patriots Asante was pretty good, but since going to the Eagles I have seen a big dropoff in his play. Is that related to him or the defensive scheme? I don't know. But I'd be leery.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

February 22nd, 2012, 10:58 am

Killwill25

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: March 5th, 2009, 8:42 pmPosts: 2422Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: Cortland Finnegan

BillySims wrote:

How does Avril to the Eagles for Asante Samuel sound?

Like a move that helps them for 7-8 years and helps us for 2-3 years. So no

_________________Just one Super Bowl win before I go!

February 22nd, 2012, 8:58 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cortland Finnegan

Quote:

Schwartz doesn’t rule out interest in FinneganPosted by Mike Florio on February 23, 2012, 2:29 PM EST Getty ImagesTitans cornerback Cortland Finnegan is due to become a free agent. Lions coach Jim Schwartz used to be the be Titans’ defensive coordinator.

And so it’s obvious to connect Cortland to Schwartz.

Schwartz didn’t rule out the possibility on Thursday at the Scouting Combine. Walking like a Wallenda on the tampering tightrope, Schwartz didn’t say that the Lions are interested in Finnegan. But Schwartz also didn’t say the Lions aren’t interested.

“There’s a lot of guys that fit our scheme,” Schwartz said, via Anwar Richardson of MLive.com. “I think it’s important for us as an organization, for us a team, to keep a lot of the players we already have before we start looking elsewhere. I think the approach we’ve taken the last couple of years is we’ve kept an open mind in just about everything we have.

“We haven’t gone all in on any one person. We haven’t also discounted any player or person. Anybody that fits our scheme, anybody that makes sense for us, we’ve done a good job of evaluating those guys. If Cortland ends up being one of those, then we’ll be in that position with him.”

That sounds good, but it’s safe to say that the Lions already have done their evaluation of Finnegan.

Before the Lions can spend big money on a free agent from another team, they need to figure out what they want to do with their own guys. With the Lions, per Richardson, $11 million under the cap, using the franchise tag on defensive end Cliff Avril would tie up most of that money.

Schwartz doesn’t rule out interest in FinneganPosted by Mike Florio on February 23, 2012, 2:29 PM EST Getty ImagesTitans cornerback Cortland Finnegan is due to become a free agent. Lions coach Jim Schwartz used to be the be Titans’ defensive coordinator.

And so it’s obvious to connect Cortland to Schwartz.

Schwartz didn’t rule out the possibility on Thursday at the Scouting Combine. Walking like a Wallenda on the tampering tightrope, Schwartz didn’t say that the Lions are interested in Finnegan. But Schwartz also didn’t say the Lions aren’t interested.

“There’s a lot of guys that fit our scheme,” Schwartz said, via Anwar Richardson of MLive.com. “I think it’s important for us as an organization, for us a team, to keep a lot of the players we already have before we start looking elsewhere. I think the approach we’ve taken the last couple of years is we’ve kept an open mind in just about everything we have.

“We haven’t gone all in on any one person. We haven’t also discounted any player or person. Anybody that fits our scheme, anybody that makes sense for us, we’ve done a good job of evaluating those guys. If Cortland ends up being one of those, then we’ll be in that position with him.”

That sounds good, but it’s safe to say that the Lions already have done their evaluation of Finnegan.

Before the Lions can spend big money on a free agent from another team, they need to figure out what they want to do with their own guys. With the Lions, per Richardson, $11 million under the cap, using the franchise tag on defensive end Cliff Avril would tie up most of that money.

Another article today stated that we aren't likely to land any top tier fa's. I'm hoping that means Tracy Porter, but I doubt it.

February 23rd, 2012, 6:21 pm

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cortland Finnegan

Quote:

Report: Titans likely to franchise Cortland FinneganPosted by Michael David Smith on March 2, 2012, 10:19 AM EST APTitans defensive back Cortland Finnegan has often been mentioned as one of the top free agents available this offseason. But he may not be available after all.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Titans are likely to put the franchise tag on Finnegan.

Previous reports had indicated that the Titans were leaning against using the franchise tag on Finnegan. But with the Titans and Finnegan far apart on talks for a long-term extension, Tennessee is now apparently leaning toward keeping Finnegan in the fold with nothing more than the one-year tender offer.

The Cowboys and the Lions are among the teams that were reportedly interested in signing Finnegan. If the Titans put the franchise tag on him, that’s not going to happen, as a team that signs him to an offer sheet would have to be prepared to send two first-round draft picks to Tennessee.

March 2nd, 2012, 11:55 am

kdsberman

League MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3527Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Cortland Finnegan

Ok, now theres this...

Quote:

Report: Titans will not franchise Cortland FinneganPosted by Michael David Smith on March 2, 2012, 10:51 AM EST Getty ImagesNot so fast on that report about the Titans franchising Cortland Finnegan.

At 9:36 a.m., Jason La Canfora of NFL Network wrote on Twitter that the Titans are likely to franchise Finnegan. And then at 10:41 a.m., Adam Schefter of ESPN wrote on Twitter that will not franchise Finnegan.

Schefter’s report sounds more definitive than La Canfora’s, and it also meshes with what we’ve been hearing for weeks out of Tennessee, which is that the Titans would like to keep Finnegan but won’t use the franchise tag to do it.

And so we’re inclined to believe that Schefter’s report is on the money, and the Titans will allow Finnegan to become an unrestricted free agent barring a deal being worked out in the next 11 days.

March 2nd, 2012, 11:57 am

Footsoldier32

5th Round Pick - Traded

Joined: February 28th, 2007, 12:13 pmPosts: 1019

Re: Cortland Finnegan

F. I have to believe that if we can get Calvin's contract restructured that Finnegan will be a target. I'd rather get a corner in the draft and let someone else overpay Finnegan.