--- Log opened Tue Oct 24 00:00:03 2006
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07:33 < juco_home> I got the HSDPA phone yesterday, and I'm really happy
07:33 < juco_home> has DUN and OBEX profiles
07:33 < juco_home> and the 770 can use the DUN profile without any problems, the HSDPA access is pretty darn good
07:34 < juco_home> certainly beats the pants off the GPRS I was using before
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07:58 < skip77> *yawn*
07:58 < skip77> @weather raleigh, nc
07:58 < Tribot> skip77: The current temperature in Southall Subdivision, Raleigh, North Carolina is 36.7°F (7:57 AM EDT on October 24, 2006). Conditions: Clear. Humidity: 67%. Dew Point: 26.6°F. Pressure: 30.01 in 1016.1 hPa (Rising). Freeze warning in effect from 2 am to 8 am EDT Wednesday...
07:58 < skip77> !
07:58 < skip77> no wonder it was so chilly....
07:58 * skip77 probably needs to rethink the whole "ride bike to centennial campus @ 7:30 am" thing...
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08:25 < elfick> skip77: nah, the ridign will keep you warm
08:25 < elfick> riding even
08:26 < skip77> elfick, um, no
08:26 < skip77> :p
08:26 < skip77> definitely didn't
08:26 < skip77> well I did forget my tobogan hat though...
08:26 < elfick> well, I assumed you would be dressed properly for the weather also :)
08:26 < skip77> I did :p
08:27 * skip77 may consider buying some gloves
08:30 < elfick> you weren't wearing gloves?
08:31 < skip77> don't have any :/
08:31 < elfick> don't you think that would disqualify you from the "properly dressed" category? :)
08:31 < skip77> not really...
08:31 < skip77> this isn't so bad when compared to asheville :p
08:32 < juco_home> yikes, that's cold
08:32 < skip77> I'm hoping it will warm up a bit for the return trip
08:33 < elfick> well then make sure you think asheville thoughts while riding and you should stay warm
08:33 < skip77> or florida thoughts...
08:33 < skip77> :p
08:42 < skip77> hmmm, random thought: does anyone here regularly use algorithms for recursive traversal of non-binary trees?
08:42 < skip77> in the workplace, I mean, not as a hobby :p
08:47 < iank> I occasionally traverse non-binary trees. But they're made out of wood, and have leaves.
08:47 < skip77> ...
08:48 < iank> And I don't so much use an algorithm as climb them.
08:48 < skip77> well I was really talking about the computer science concept... :p
08:48 < skip77> but, er, ok...
08:48 < iank> See, that's your problem. It's all about computer science. There's no /connection/, man! All things are related!
08:49 < skip77> :/
08:49 * iank_ looks curiously at iank
08:49 < iank_> iank: stfu
08:49 < iank> iank_: ok :(
08:49 * iank eats breakfast
08:49 < skip77> er, multiple personalities from iank
08:49 < skip77> alright...
08:51 < skip77> It's just that I only see the application of this in the writing of a few, specific, cpu-critical programs...
08:52 < skip77> oh well
08:52 * skip77 continues taking notes
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08:55 < juco_home> skip, I find myself traversing trees quite often
08:55 < juco_home> and they are usually not binary
08:56 < juco_home> but I don't usually use recursion
08:57 < juco_home> though, I suppose that depends on whether you want depth or breadth first traversal
08:57 < juco_home> why do you ask?
08:58 < skip77> juco_home, just wondering, as it is today's lesson in class
08:59 < skip77> juco_home, what do you do, anyway?
08:59 < juco_home> my job?
08:59 < skip77> yes
08:59 < juco_home> I'm a programmer
08:59 < skip77> do you work with java?
08:59 < juco_home> custom software development for a CRO at the moment
08:59 < juco_home> mostly
08:59 < skip77> oh, alright
09:00 < juco_home> ?
09:01 < skip77> juco_home, thanks, I was just wondering about the relevance of all this...
09:01 < skip77> which is really not described at all :/
09:01 < juco_home> :(
09:01 < juco_home> sorry
09:02 < skip77> it's not so bad, class ends in like 15 mins.
09:02 < juco_home> well, data structures are good
09:02 < juco_home> but I found that for the first 2 years that I was working I didn't really do anything with them
09:03 < juco_home> it took me a lot of out of school programming to get a better understanding of why they are used
09:03 < juco_home> and where I might put them to use myself
09:03 < skip77> oh, well maybe that's it
09:04 < juco_home> for instance, if a relationaly database is your only source of data, you will probably never use a tree traversal
09:04 < juco_home> but, if you start dealing with XML documents, you might
09:04 < juco_home> parse trees are not binary
09:04 < skip77> oh, I see
09:05 < juco_home> or if you write your own compiler
09:05 < juco_home> which, strangely enough, is not as uncommon as you might think
09:05 < juco_home> parser generators make domain specific languages fairly easy to implement, and they can be useful
09:05 < skip77> well, the thing about me... I'm not sure if I want to be a full-blown *programmer*....
09:05 < juco_home> what's your major?
09:05 < skip77> CSC
09:05 < juco_home> and what year are you?
09:06 < skip77> sophomore
09:06 < juco_home> what's the C on the end?
09:06 < skip77> computer science :p
09:06 < skip77> we have a weird abbreviation
09:06 < juco_home> ah
09:06 < juco_home> well, are you interested in theory?
09:06 < skip77> not at all
09:06 < skip77> :)
09:07 < skip77> I like setting up/maintaining/fiddling with servers
09:07 < juco_home> hmm, CS is supposed to be a theoreticaly degree
09:07 < juco_home> CE is supposed to be the programmer class
09:07 < skip77> and doing the occasional scripting job....
09:07 < juco_home> you don't need a BS for that
09:08 < juco_home> but a CS degree will probably make give you good background for the sysadmin stuff
09:08 < skip77> yea, I suppose so
09:08 < juco_home> and, actually, tree traversal is useful there
09:08 < skip77> how so?
09:08 < juco_home> because LDAP comes in trees
09:08 < skip77> oh
09:09 < juco_home> and being able to script against a directory is pretty useful
09:09 < skip77> yea, I was thinking about that...
09:09 < juco_home> though, the odds of traversing the entire structure are probably fairly slim
09:09 < juco_home> since the server does that for you when you query it
09:17 < skip77> class end, yaaay
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09:43 < _MMA_> Hello guys. Im trying mount 2 network drives from a launcher using Ubuntu. I cant get it right. Im doing gksudo mount /media/Multimedia && mount /media/Storage in the "command" field. This is also in Gnome.
09:44 < _MMA_> I currently have 2 launchers to mount the drives. Im just trying to combine the 2.
09:44 < jwbernin> do the individual launchers work correctly?
09:44 < _MMA_> Yes.
09:44 < jwbernin> try `` gksudo (mount ... && mount ...) ''
09:45 < _MMA_> k
09:45 < jbeimler> or if one might fail, you may want a ; instead of &&
09:46 < jbeimler> first mount fails, second will never happen..
09:46 < _MMA_> yea. 1 did fail.
09:46 < _MMA_> Yep. :)
09:47 < _MMA_> So I do: gksudo (mount /media/Multimedia ; mount /media/Storage) it fails.
09:48 < jwbernin> both fail, or just one fails?
09:48 < _MMA_> The second one fails.
09:48 < jwbernin> try `` gksudo mount ... ; gksudo mount ... ''
09:48 < jwbernin> kind of hackish, but it should work.
09:49 < jwbernin> will gksudo mount -a not work for the /media/* entries?
09:50 * _MMA_ tries
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09:51 < _MMA_> I should just add them to a start up script.
09:52 < _MMA_> I get a HAL error if I dont put "noauto" in the FSTAB.
09:56 < _MMA_> I keep getting a: bash: syntax error near unexpected token `mount'
09:57 < _MMA_> with ``gksudo (mount /media/Multimedia ; mount /media/Storage)"
10:02 < jwbernin> add a space after the open paren and before the close paren
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10:14 < rarousse> juco_home: the CSC degree is theory and heavy programming. CE is more focused on the hardware level at NCSU. If things haven't changed in the past 10 years.
10:15 < juco_home> oh, interesting
10:15 < rarousse> skip77: how many programming classes have you had so far?
10:15 < juco_home> what would you study if you want to be a software engineer? CSC?
10:16 < juco_home> I have a BA in CS, so I found that I had to learn most of what is considered software engineering after school
10:16 < juco_home> good theory basis though
10:16 < rarousse> probably a BS in CSC
10:17 < rarousse> juco_home: where did you get your degree?
10:17 < juco_home> grinnell college in iowa
10:17 < juco_home> liberal arts school
10:17 < juco_home> no BSs awarded
10:17 < juco_home> just BAs
10:18 < rarousse> the CSC program at NCSU is in the College of Engineering.
10:19 < juco_home> interesting
10:19 < rarousse> here's the CSC program at NCSU: http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/academics/undergrad/pro-ofstudy.php
10:19 < juco_home> the CS program at Grinnell is part of the Math department
10:20 < rarousse> and the 4 year track: http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/academics/undergrad/semester.php
10:20 < rarousse> I think most CS programs originally started in the Math dept.
10:21 < skip77> rarousse: 3
10:21 < rarousse> skip77: what languages?
10:21 < skip77> well, *strictly* programming classes
10:21 < rarousse> Java, ? ?
10:21 < skip77> Java 1, Java 2, and C
10:21 < skip77> (I'm in C now)
10:21 < rarousse> no C++?
10:21 < skip77> no
10:21 < rarousse> wow o.0
10:22 < skip77> yea....
10:22 < skip77> CS folk at ncsu often wonder about that...
10:22 < rarousse> well, there's not too many differences between C and C++
10:22 < juco_home> ha
10:22 < skip77> yea, I've already messed with both :p
10:22 < rarousse> C must be like going to the stone ages compared to Java
10:22 < skip77> juco_home: excuse me, not too many *syntax* differences
10:22 < skip77> :p
10:23 < skip77> rarousse: I actually like it more
10:23 < skip77> not sure why...
10:23 < juco_home> not too many differences between C and Java either
10:23 < juco_home> in that case
10:23 < rarousse> right, in so far as syntax diffs.
10:23 < skip77> maybe because all my favorite OSS stuff is in C...
10:23 < rarousse> didn't C++ introduce the object oriented coding?
10:23 < juco_home> http://www.grinnell.edu/academic/catalog/courses/cs/
10:24 < juco_home> no software engineering
10:24 < juco_home> "software design" is as close as they get
10:24 < skip77> rarousse: object oriented programming was around long before C++, I believe :)
10:24 < juco_home> C is fun
10:24 < juco_home> but not as fun as ruby ;p
10:25 < rarousse> skip77: ok, maybe I meant the Class method?
10:25 < rarousse> @juco_home++
10:27 < juco_home> whatever happened to D?
10:28 < jwbernin> they've not gotten there yet. C++ is only a half-tone above C
10:28 < juco_home> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D_%28programming_language%29
10:30 < rarousse> Bjarne Stroustrup developed C++ (originally named "C with Classes")
10:31 < skip77> heh, "C with class"
10:31 < skip77> sorry, couldn't resist :)
10:32 < rarousse> heh
10:32 < Nivex> http://engtech.wordpress.com/2006/10/12/iceweasel-why-proprietary-software-will-always-win-out/
10:32 < Nivex> This iceweasel stuff needs to stop. It's a cute name, and that's it.
10:32 < rarousse> skip77: here's all the languages you have to learn: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_programming_languages
10:33 < ScottCh> STL wasn't confuing enough. Now there's Boost.
10:33 < skip77> Nivex: perhaps Iceweasel:Firefox::CentOS:RHEL
10:33 < skip77> rarousse: fat chance
10:33 < skip77> :)
10:34 < Nivex> skip77: so long as the madness is contained to debian, maybe. If it leaks into Ubuntu or any of the other platforms, we're done.
10:34 < ScottCh> If you think your application is compiling too fast, add boost (boost.org).
10:34 < skip77> :/
10:34 < rarousse> skip77: j/k ;)
10:34 * skip77 will know about that, as I use ubuntu
10:34 < skip77> rarousse: I hoped so :)
10:34 < Nivex> and the fact that the FSF has effectively forked the codebase is just lunacy
10:35 < skip77> well, the thing about IceWeasel though...
10:35 < Nivex> This whole mess is poised to set the Firefox movement back 3 years
10:35 < rarousse> can't decide, just fork!
10:35 < skip77> most firefox users will not hear about it at all
10:35 < skip77> I think
10:35 < Nivex> skip77: I hope you're right
10:35 < skip77> Nivex: most firefox users are Windows-only
10:35 < skip77> :p
10:36 < rarousse> juco_home: CSC 326, the software engineering course at NCSU: http://www.csc.ncsu.edu/courses/undergrad/index.php#CSC326
10:36 < Nivex> It couldn't have come at a worse time thought (the release of IE 7)
10:36 < skip77> and, if Iceweasel is restricted to Linux... (not even just Debian) that is still (unfortunately) a tiny minority of mozilla/firefox users
10:36 < Nivex> s/thought/though/
10:36 < rarousse> http://openseminar.org/se/courses/1/index/screen.do
10:36 < Nivex> odd, I thought most of Firefox's deployment was on Linux, not Windows.
10:37 < skip77> Nivex: fairly certain that on the desktop...
10:37 * skip77 looks up some numbers
10:38 < Nivex> fire is hot, a fox is cunning. ice is cold and forboding, a weasel is not something to be trusted.
10:38 < Nivex> They have chosen... poorly.
10:38 < juco_home> simply solution
10:38 < skip77> lol
10:38 < juco_home> http://ianmurdock.com/?p=370
10:38 < gxti> a fox is not something to be trusted either
10:38 < skip77> gxti: but a *fire* fox?
10:39 < skip77> methinks you guys are reading too much into the names :p
10:39 < rarousse> ice beat fire in X-Men 3
10:39 < gxti> AAAH SPOILERS
10:39 < gxti> ... just kidding.
10:39 < Nivex> +ianmurdock++
10:40 < rarousse> c'mon, everyone has seen X-Men 3 already, right?
10:40 < Nivex> I haven't
10:40 < gxti> no, and i have no interest in doing so
10:40 < rarousse> it's out on video now :)
10:40 < rarousse> or go get the torrent
10:40 < rarousse> ;)
10:40 < Nivex> I still haven't seen "Return of the King"
10:40 < rarousse> o.0
10:40 < gxti> maybe if my netflix queue ever gets low (HAH!) i'll add the x-men series
10:40 < rarousse> omg
10:40 < Nivex> or the third Matrix movie
10:40 < rarousse> !~!!
10:40 < gxti> hmm, i should probably watch LOTR 2 & 3
10:41 < gxti> i kinda fell asleep during the first one, so that was a big turn-off
10:41 < rarousse> staples, people, staples!!!
10:41 < Nivex> oh don't give me that look. jeremyp still hasn't seen RotJ to my knowledge
10:41 < rarousse> Nivex: well, no one can top jeremyp.
10:42 < rarousse> isn't he coming back here before heading across the pond?
10:42 < Nivex> I think he said he'd be here for the Nov. LUG mtg.
10:42 < skip77> I heard Xmen 3 was bad....
10:42 < skip77> there was a joke about it on rifftrax...
10:43 < rarousse> it was ok
10:43 < rarousse> here ya go: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-Men:_The_Last_Stand
10:43 < crimsun> it was better than herbie fully loaded or whatever
10:43 < skip77> some quote like "I never saw something so hideous. (Mike:) Oh you haven't seen X-men 3...."
10:43 < skip77> I laughed :p
10:43 < rarousse> Currently it holds the record for highest grossing movie during Memorial Day weekend totaling nearly $122.9 million in its first four days.
10:44 < gxti> so...?
10:45 < gxti> i should watch it because it's popular?
10:45 < juco_home> what's with people in the medical profession complaining about unrealist portrayals of medicine in TV and movies? Its not like I refuse to watch Office Space because the portrayal of computing is completly bogus, yet plenty of people refuse to watch House
10:45 < gxti> office space wasn't about computing
10:45 < juco_home> Or Hackers, Sneakers, War Games
10:46 < gxti> compare, say, 'firewall'
10:46 < jbroome> it was a love story about a man and his stapler
10:46 < skip77> juco_home: oh it was hilarious
10:46 < gxti> :p
10:46 < juco_home> I don't know "firewall"
10:46 < gxti> jbroome: very romantic
10:46 < jbroome> harrison ford
10:46 * skip77 can do the Milton voice
10:46 < gxti> actually firewall had nothing to do with computers really either
10:46 < gxti> ... people don't make movies about computers.
10:46 < crimsun> everyone knows Jurassic Park has the most truthful rep of computers.
10:46 < juco_home> Alias
10:46 < skip77> crimsun: dude, that 3d unix file navigator...
10:46 < skip77> that was hot :p
10:47 < skip77> know what I'm talking about?
10:47 < crimsun> oh I know this...this is Unix!
10:47 < skip77> yea... and it's...
10:47 < skip77> 3d?
10:47 < skip77> lol
10:47 < _MMA_> X3 wasnt bad, just not as good as the others.
10:48 < rarousse> like Tron
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10:48 < rarousse> X3 left out a lot of the whole Jean Grey storyline, but what do you expect in a movie from Hollywood?
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10:49 < _MMA_> Exactly.
10:50 < _MMA_> I wonder what Chris Claremont thought of the butchering of the storyline.
10:50 < _MMA_> God. I sound like a fanboy. :(
10:51 < rarousse> lol
10:51 * skip77 nmaps his server
10:51 < jbroome> you haven't gotten to "OMG I want to have his babies" yet
10:51 < RangerRick> I thought they all butchered each other's storylines over the years in the comics anyways
10:51 < jbroome> so you're safe
10:51 < skip77> gotta try to bust in :p
10:51 < _MMA_> :)
10:53 < _MMA_> "The Phoenix Saga" was a fave growing up. They could have do so much better.
10:53 < _MMA_> But I understand it would end up like LOTR or something. 5 4hr movies. :)
10:54 < rarousse> hehehheh
10:56 < skip77> ahh
10:56 < skip77> Nivex: here it is: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp
10:56 < skip77> you can infer from those statistics that most firefox users (vast majority, in fact) are Windows users
10:57 < skip77> Linux needs more marketshare :(
10:58 * skip77 savors the days where he can use a Linux desktop for daily use
10:58 < juco_home> i don't think Linux is going to take off as a direct replacement for "desktop windows"
10:58 < juco_home> at least not for most people
10:59 < skip77> I can hope :p
10:59 < juco_home> I do, think, however, that we can see the uselessness of "desktop windows" become apparent to most people
10:59 < skip77> juco_home: so, um, what will replace it?
10:59 < skip77> in your opinion :p
10:59 < juco_home> and replace it with a simplified linux boxes
10:59 < thunderbear> every time Microsoft releases a new OS and deprecates their old ones, our numbers grow.
10:59 < juco_home> I already use Linux as my daily OS
11:00 < jbroome> i too have switched
11:00 < skip77> yea... Ubuntu ftw :)
11:00 < skip77> and.... I suppose Nivex is afk
11:00 < juco_home> for (non windows) software development, its hard to beat Linux
11:00 < juco_home> as a development platform
11:00 < juco_home> but I can't imagine replacing my wifes laptop with one that runs linux
11:00 < jbroome> for that smug feeling when your clients are eaten up with spyware and viruses, it's hard to beat linux. :0
11:01 < juco_home> no real reason to do so
11:01 < elfick> juco_home: why not?
11:01 < skip77> juco_home: have you tried Ubuntu? :p
11:01 < juco_home> what's the point?
11:01 < juco_home> all laptops come with either OSX or Windows XP
11:01 < skip77> well, I suppose if it was a new laptop...
11:01 < skip77> but, if it's like my mother's....
11:02 < skip77> bought used has (gasp) Windows ME....
11:02 < juco_home> its not like linux has something special to offer her
11:02 < jbroome> oh jezus
11:02 < skip77> :/
11:02 < juco_home> oh, yeah, in that case
11:02 < juco_home> Linux would be a nice way to make it suck less
11:02 < skip77> yea... lol
11:02 < jbroome> i mean, there's no where to go but up from there
11:02 < juco_home> now, that doesn't mean that my wife doesn't use Linux on a daily basis
11:02 < juco_home> she just doesn't think very much about it
11:03 < juco_home> its just "the photo site" and "the xbox"
11:03 < jbroome> gallery and XBMC?
11:03 < juco_home> gallery and freevo
11:03 < jbroome> rawk
11:03 < juco_home> and MPD
11:04 < juco_home> so she can pick songs from her computer
11:04 < juco_home> instead of having to turn on the tv
11:04 < juco_home> and so I can use the Nokia 770 as a super cool remote
11:04 < juco_home> ;p
11:04 < rarousse> elfick: R. Lee Ermey is in X3
11:04 < elfick> rarousse: eh... ?
11:05 < rarousse> oops, maybe that was for mattfrye.
11:06 < juco_home> oh yeah, and her "j drive" which is a CIFS and WebDAV share
11:06 < juco_home> linux certainly woops the crap out of just about everything on the server
11:07 < juco_home> but as far as the desktop as we know it, it doesn't make a lot of sense to me to replace the existing OS for people who are comfortable with it
11:07 < juco_home> she runs XP Home now
11:07 < juco_home> it crashes a lot
11:07 < juco_home> and her new job uses Macs
11:07 < juco_home> so she might go to OSX
11:08 < juco_home> hopefully, she won't notice much of a difference
11:08 < juco_home> now, what I would *really* like to get her to stop using is MS Office
11:09 < juco_home> but I hate word processors, so I can't quite sound excited enough about it to convince her
11:09 < rarousse> I just really watched X3 for Rebecca Romijn.
11:09 < juco_home> no more Stamos?
11:09 < jbroome> divorced
11:09 < thunderbear> she was waaaay too hot for him
11:11 < rarousse> In September 2005, Romijn and actor Jerry O'Connell announced their engagement.
11:11 < rarousse> juco_home: you're too late ;)
11:11 < juco_home> this is exciting
11:11 < juco_home> http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20061024-8059.html
11:12 < rarousse> so I guess it will be Rebecca Romijn-O'Connell.
11:13 < juco_home> well, exciting to me
11:13 < juco_home> preferring ubuntu over RHEL
11:14 < gxti> nifty... if you find a trac ticket via google, it hilites your search terms for you
11:14 < gxti> an excellent use of the referer field
11:18 < juco_home> yeah, I'm not sure it is on purpose either
11:19 < juco_home> I think it is a side affect of using the same query param name for their own search
11:22 < skip77> heh, I like RHEL for my server
11:22 < skip77> well, CentOS...
11:22 < skip77> as I do all of my own support...
11:23 < juco_home> perhaps.... but I have to tell you, I did a "apt-get install oracle-xe" the other day, and it just worked
11:23 < juco_home> which is pretty darn good
11:23 < jbroome> whoah
11:24 < juco_home> considering that I had to create my own init script to get Oracle 9i to start on boot on RHEL 4
11:24 < juco_home> http://www.oracle.com/technology/tech/linux/install/xe-on-kubuntu.html
11:24 < juco_home> deb http://oss.oracle.com/debian unstable main non-free
11:25 < juco_home> and had to create my own symlinks
11:25 < juco_home> which up2date deleted for me
11:25 < shaldannon> gotta love red hat :}
11:25 < juco_home> those symlinks were created according to the official Oracle install instructions for RHEL 4
11:26 < skip77> well, I have a nostalgic softspot for red hat
11:26 < juco_home> rhat 5.2 was the first linux I ever installed
11:26 < shaldannon> I have a sorespot from the way they kept moving things around on me
11:27 < skip77> since I found this older box my dad had in the basement, unopened, named "Red Hat Linux 5.2"...
11:27 < skip77> :p
11:27 * shaldannon was a red hat user from 4.[12] - 9
11:27 < shaldannon> heh
11:27 < shaldannon> I still even have my red hat 4.2 disc
11:27 < thunderbear> yeah it fit on one CD then IIRC
11:27 * skip77 is glad he never went online with his first install
11:27 < shaldannon> yeah
11:27 < shaldannon> it did through...like 6
11:27 < skip77> didn't understand the concept of "non-priveleged users"
11:28 < skip77> being a Win95/98 kid before that... :p
11:28 < shaldannon> it's a phase. everyone matures at some point ;}
11:29 < juco_home> heck, I didn't understand the concept of protected memory ;p
11:31 < shaldannon> I still don't ;}
11:31 < juco_home> you are not alone
11:31 < juco_home> ;)
11:31 < shaldannon> :}
11:32 < juco_home> up until Windows XP, most Windows users thought it was normal for an app to be able to crash the entire computer ;)
11:32 < shaldannon> what is this "up until" thing?
11:32 < shaldannon> it still happens :}
11:32 < juco_home> no, that's the kernel crashing the entire computer
11:33 < shaldannon> rofl
11:33 < juco_home> it just happens that they kernel happens to contain arbitrary bits of code that really should be in userspace
11:33 * shaldannon considers that IE is still an application, microsoft's assertions notwithstanding
11:34 < juco_home> if I recall correctly parts of IEs HTML rendering is done in the kernel
11:34 < shaldannon> of course. it'
11:34 < shaldannon> it is more sensible since it saves you from having to make lots of calls out to libraries and such
11:35 < shaldannon> let alone actually isolate anything potentially dangerous since that gets in the way of doing things
11:36 < juco_home> i thought they just did it because "its faster"
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12:20 < Nivex> hmm, it seems FC6 is out
12:20 * Nivex hops on the torrent
12:20 < Nivex> heh, my UL is faster than my DL
12:21 < Nivex> talk about hot off the presses
12:21 < jbroome> yeah, i must be on a 'tard torrent or something, it's not going that fast
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12:22 < Nivex> $COWORKER just got the announcement a few minutes ago
12:22 < Nivex> so I guess there just aren't that many seeds yet
12:23 < jbroome> which tracker are you on?
12:23 < _MMA_> Nivex: Theres a torrent for the DVD that has been up for 2 days. Lots of seeds.
12:24 < _MMA_> Its on mininova.
12:24 < Nivex> I tend to wait for the official tracker sites
12:24 < Nivex> esp. after the FF release debocale
12:25 < _MMA_> Im gonna fine the official DVD torrent and seed in a min. That is, if its up.
12:25 < _MMA_> *find
12:25 < Nivex> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/
12:25 < jbroome> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/
12:25 < jbroome> gah
12:25 < Nivex> pwnt
12:31 < _MMA_> The torrent from here: http://www.mininova.org/get/459996 seems to match this one: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/Zod-dvd-i386.torrent
12:31 < _MMA_> Im seeding now.
12:32 < _MMA_> 2 other seeds 42 Peers.
12:33 < _MMA_> On the "Official" one that is.
12:33 < Nivex> the release announcement is funny: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2006-October/msg00008.html
12:34 < jtower> i wonder who writes those
12:34 < jbroome> that was awesome
12:35 < _MMA_> Ha! "KNEEL BEFORE ZOD" Thats awesome.
12:35 < jbroome> http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/release-notes/ doh
12:37 < jbroome> http://virt-manager.et.redhat.com/ Oooh!
12:37 < jtower> iirc the fc6 xen packages are pae ready so you can go >4gb on 32bit systems
12:38 < jbroome> To the test servers xenman!
12:38 < jwbernin> not only pae ready, but the xen kernel won't boot on a non-pae box.
12:39 < jtower> right
12:39 < jwbernin> which is somewhat upsetting, but only somewhat
12:39 < jtower> er, maybe it's just that the dom0 and domU kernels have to "match" WRT pae
12:40 < jtower> i'll have to try it on my 2650s
12:58 < Nivex> jtower: well, judging from the message ID, it was sent by Max Spevack
13:00 < Nivex> oh well crap. this torrent client I'm using on the mac had a default upload cap of 20KB/sec
13:00 * Nivex removes limit
13:00 < Nivex> ah, much better
13:00 < Nivex> DL 550KB/sec, UL 1.55MB/sec
13:02 < juco_home> where are you with good upload speeds? surely not home
13:02 < Nivex> UNC :)
13:02 < juco_home> very nice
13:02 < Nivex> am hoping to do the same when Edgy comes out on Thursday
13:03 < juco_home> but you are connected to IRC from home
13:03 < Nivex> right
13:03 < juco_home> got it
13:03 < juco_home> I'm interested in better upload speed for my home connection
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13:04 < Nivex> There's always business class.
13:04 < Nivex> which is kinda expensive :(
13:04 < juco_home> yeah
13:04 < juco_home> and they don't like residential
13:04 < juco_home> Speakeasy has a 1.5/768
13:05 < Nivex> Can one get naked DSL in CH/Carrboro?
13:05 < juco_home> yeah
13:05 < jbroome> ORLY?
13:05 < juco_home> I actually qualify for the 6.0/768 package
13:05 < juco_home> but its $110 month
13:05 < tarheelcoxn> !
13:06 < juco_home> not sure what the 1.5/768 is
13:06 < Nivex> I'm not a big fan of DSL, but I like speakeasy's TOS, and I may want to host in house after (if) I move.
13:06 < juco_home> I host on my connection
13:06 < juco_home> its ok
13:06 < jbroome> i liked the 8 IPs that jtower had with celito, but i like my fast download with RR better
13:06 < juco_home> http://jsv.mine.nu/gallery/
13:06 < juco_home> my xbox
13:06 < juco_home> on TW/Mindspring
13:07 < juco_home> I get 4.5 mbps dl on that
13:08 < juco_home> 300 kbps up
13:08 < juco_home> $389 for a a T1
13:09 < juco_home>
13:09 < Nivex> T1's are absurdly expensive, but dang if it isn't a nice SLA
13:09 -!- beu [i=beu@freenode/developer/gentoo.developer.beu] has quit [Client Quit]
13:09 < juco_home> speakeasy 1.5/384 is $56
13:10 < juco_home> don't have a price on the 1.5/768
13:10 < juco_home> and really, it would seem like a downgrade to get anything less than the 3.0/768
13:10 < tarheelcoxn> that sounds yummy
13:10 < tarheelcoxn> wait... you put linux on an xbox?
13:11 < juco_home> yeah, what else would you do with one?
13:11 < gxti> why not?
13:11 < juco_home> play games?
13:11 -!- kjotte [n=kjotte@aaladm69.lib.unc.edu] has quit ["Get MacIrssi - http://www.g1m0.se/macirssi/"]
13:11 < gxti> juco_home: pff
13:11 < juco_home> they only cost $100
13:11 < tarheelcoxn> I'd heard you could do that, but I've never actually met somebody who has done it
13:11 < juco_home> or it did when I bought it
13:12 < juco_home> i bought it primarily as a media center
13:12 < juco_home> but it also does web, file and IRC serving
13:12 < juco_home> and when I need to download something, bittorrent
13:12 < juco_home> oh, and DNS and DHCP for the house
13:13 < juco_home> pretty good for $100
13:13 < juco_home> you have to get the right vintage though
13:13 < juco_home> but if you go to EB games they will let you look at the used ones
13:13 * tarheelcoxn nods
13:14 < juco_home> for a while I ran it without cracking the case
13:15 < juco_home> but then I soldered shut the write protect jumper and flashed the boot chip with a linux loader
13:15 < juco_home> which was worthwhile, because it meant I could swap hard drives whenever I wanted
13:15 < juco_home> hmm, I can also get SDSL from speakeasy
13:15 < juco_home> starting at $110 month
13:16 < juco_home> for 192/192
13:16 < juco_home> blech
13:17 * juco_home tries to figure out a way to make money off of having two bonded T1s running to his house
13:17 < tarheelcoxn> rofl
13:17 < juco_home> well, not really make money, just offset the cost
13:19 < tarheelcoxn> 's the one thing I miss about living on campus: blazing intarwebs
13:19 < gxti> it hurts being back on cable :/
13:21 < juco_home> I never had really fast access
13:21 < juco_home> its sad
13:22 < crimsun> that's why you get a cot and live in your office.
13:22 < crimsun> not that I know anything about that...
13:26 < tarheelcoxn> note to self: get crimsun egg-crate padding and a sleeping bag for Christmas
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13:39 < jbroome> tarheelcoxn: and an aeropress
13:42 < tarheelcoxn> interesting: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2031175733.html
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14:14 < shawnh> shell script gurus, read my post to the list
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14:39 < juco_home> jbroome: do you have an aeropress?
14:40 < juco_home> and if so, did you get it locally or mail order?
14:40 < jbroome> juco_home: yeah, i have one. and sort of both.
14:41 < jbroome> Ordered it from a company in Tarboro, they ship usps express, so I had it like a day later
14:41 < juco_home> how do you like it?
14:41 * gxti wonders how long it'll take his CPU to ship
14:42 < jbroome> juco_home: it's nice. I don't really drink it as espresso though, i add some hot water to it to make really good "regular" coffee
14:43 < juco_home> and you are happier with the end product than you are with a french press?
14:43 < jbroome> http://www.coffeebeancorral.com/ProductInfo.aspx?productid=AEROPRESS
14:44 < jbroome> juco_home: i don't have a FP, too much mess for me. and i'm just brewing for me mostly. Laura doesn't like the same coffee i do
14:45 < juco_home> hmm, I use a french press, I don't find it has much mess
14:45 < juco_home> this thing is easier to clean?
14:45 < jbroome> yeah
14:46 < jbroome> you take the plastic filter disc off the bottom and just push the grounds into the sink/compost/what ev, and rinse off the bottom
14:46 < juco_home> yeah, I guess that is a bit easier
14:46 < jbroome> the plunger does a nice squeegee job of cleaning the grounds out of the cylinder
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14:47 < juco_home> what attracted me to it is the filter
14:47 < juco_home> a french press doesn't have a real filter
14:48 < jbroome> yeah, that springy thing doesn't do such a great job
14:48 < juco_home> so you get sludge
14:48 < jbroome> i'll bring it to the next meeting if you'll be there
14:48 < juco_home> on the other hand, I switch from my mr. coffee to a french press because I didn't like the plastic smell the mr. coffee gave off
14:49 < jbroome> the hot water isn't really in the AP long enough to transfer odors
14:49 < juco_home> i guess this doesn't get an hot as a drip coffee maker
14:49 < jbroome> right
14:49 < juco_home> its a cool concept
14:49 < jbroome> and this is pretty heavy plastic, it might be lexan,, not sure
14:50 < juco_home> basically an extremly simplified hand pulled espresso maker
14:50 < jbroome> If i used powedered creamer instead of H&H i'd keep one and the supplies in the car. :)
14:50 < jbroome> yeah
14:51 < juco_home> I usually don't like americanos, but I don't use my espresso maker (hogs counter space, long process, long time to clean)
14:51 < juco_home> so even if this made OK espresso, it would be interesting to me
14:51 < jbroome> yeah, we got one as a wedding gift, and it sits under the counter.
14:51 < juco_home> in theory it should be able to
14:51 < juco_home> grind fine, get the water really hot, and push really hard
14:52 < juco_home> the pushing really hard would probably be the tough part
14:52 < juco_home> since a hand pulled espresso machine has quite a bit of lever action going on
14:53 < jbroome> yeah, the paper filter is pretty fine. you def. feel the resistance when you're brewing
14:53 < juco_home> the link you sent me is big on home roasting
14:53 < juco_home> have you tried that?
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15:22 < jbroome> juco_home: no, i havent
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15:38 < mattfrye> while espresso machines are in the current, anyone know where I can get a replacement carafe for my melitta?
15:38 < mattfrye> the melitta website doesn't have anything but the big ones
15:40 < rarousse> mattfrye: this? http://www.melitta.com/search.asp?SKW=RPCA
15:41 < mattfrye> yeah, that's where I looked. but i need one of the little ones for an espresso machine
15:41 < mattfrye> it was an anniversary gift, so i don't want to pitch the whole thing for a friggin' mr coffee POS
15:41 < rarousse> call them up? consumerrelations@melitta.com or call us at 1-888-MELITTA
15:43 < mattfrye> i hope they don't want some absurd price for it
15:43 < mattfrye> i wonder if the krups will fit
15:49 < juco_home> bodum is pretty good about replacement parts
15:49 < juco_home> maybe they have something that would fit
15:49 < juco_home> I thought you just made espresso into cups or shot classes
15:50 < juco_home> what's the carafe for?
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15:57 < juco_home> anyone want to do a contract in omaha?
15:58 < juco_home> I just got a call from a recruitor looking to fill a 6-12 month position
15:58 < juco_home> but I have to interest in moving to Omaha for a year
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16:04 < JasonF> If I have a postfix-mysql install with virtual users, is it possible to setup spamassassin to only check messages going to recipients in certain domains?
16:12 < thunderbear> hmmm I think you can whitelist recipients in your global SA config, JasonF... and whitelists do support globbing.
16:12 < thunderbear> whitelist_to *@whitelistdomain.com
16:14 < thunderbear> unless you have me on /ignore anyway
16:16 < thunderbear> lol serves you right
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16:28 < skip77> ah ha, back!
16:28 < skip77> ...and I think there is something to be said for studying/sleeping all night in the library :p
16:29 < skip77> freaking 87 on that test... woo hoo
16:29 * skip77 gets all hyper and happy
16:30 -!- YanceySl1de [i=YanceySl@gateway/tor/x-53a3a5a2f369cdf8] has quit [Connection reset by peer]
16:31 < skip77> uh oh
16:31 < skip77> peer is up to his old tricks again :/
16:31 < skip77> resetting innocent connections, grrrr
16:33 -!- impl [n=impl@httpcraft/php/nforbes] has joined #trilug
16:33 < skip77> ....wow
16:33 < skip77> fedora core 6 is released *already*?
16:33 < impl> Is that a good or a bad wow?
16:34 < skip77> dunno
16:34 < skip77> just... fast
16:34 < skip77> and LOL
16:34 < skip77> redhat has been slashdotted, I think
16:34 < skip77> yea, redhat.com "temporarily unavailable"
16:36 < skip77> ouch
16:39 -!- kenvandine [n=ken@rdu-nat.rpath.com] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
16:39 < impl> haha
16:40 < skip77> "We are working hard to bring fedora.redhat.com back up to its fully operational state."
16:40 < skip77> I hope so, red hatters :p
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17:56 < nitind> http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/ is still up
18:03 -!- skip77 [n=skip77@nom12945smd.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit ["I'm on a plain! I can't complain!"]
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20:03 * Nivex takes backup of homedir, gets FF2 build
20:35 < drasch> FF2 rocks, been using it in Edgy
20:36 < drasch> it's faster
20:37 < drasch> so, remember how I was upgrading my gallery ? the real bummer is that my weekly backups from here to St. Louis are still trying to catch up
21:32 -!- bkjones [n=jonesy@c-69-141-167-244.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #trilug
21:34 < drasch> i really wish that I could burn this DVD
21:36 < jwbernin> drasch: microwaves work really well for that.
21:38 < drasch> i'm actually trying to store data on the DVD
21:39 < Nivex> drasch: why can you not?
21:40 < jwbernin> but storing data isn't nearly as colorful.
21:40 * JasonF guesses the answer starts with "lee" and ends with "nucks" :P
21:41 < drasch> Nivex: not sure yet
21:41 < drasch> keeps saying i need to insert media w/ 4.4 GB free
21:41 < drasch> but it's a 4.7GB dvd
21:41 < drasch> just burned a 2.2G one fine
21:41 < Nivex> nautilus?
21:41 < drasch> yep
21:42 < Nivex> I had a problem burning the PPC Ubuntu Live CD. Kept complaining there wasn't enough room
21:42 < Nivex> I think I either did cmdline or switched to k3b
21:49 -!- john280z [n=johnm@user-0ce2hju.cable.mindspring.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:53 < drasch> it seems to write 3.8 GB just fine
21:53 < drasch> i guess it'll be 3 DVD's + a CD
21:53 < drasch> :)
21:55 * Nivex hugs his gigE link
21:55 < Nivex> I wonder if I'll fill this disk
22:17 < binaryflow> Can anyone recommend a good open source help desk package?
22:24 < drasch> binaryflow: i've used Request Tracker, it's both nice and a complete waste of time
22:24 < Nivex> heh, when I get some Free Time (tm), I'll probably be setting up an RT instance for people to play around with
22:31 < binaryflow> I came across oneorzero on source forge.
22:31 < binaryflow> Anyone heard of that?
22:35 < drasch> never heard of it
22:35 < Nivex> me either
22:42 < binaryflow> Thanks for the advice, heading to bed.
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23:18 < jbroome> anyone else have issues with vmware not being happy when vmware-server-console is installed (on dapper)
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23:23 < turnpike420> jbroome: I've only run the win32 console so far... but server is on minimal CentoS 4... :)
23:24 * drasch downloads new barenaked ladies album legally in FLAC
23:24 * turnpike420 finally has one XP vm in testing and staged another CentOS 4 vm which will suck up our Intranet into a vm... yeah! one less BTU generating machine in the server room
23:24 < turnpike420> haha... FLAC... LARGE file sise
23:24 < turnpike420> (not "quite" as large as SHN though)
23:25 < jbroome> it seems that when i have server-console installed, workstation doesn't like to run
23:25 < drasch> turnpike420: i convert to Ogg for carrying around, but i also convert to mp3 for some less-enabled devices
23:25 < thunderbear_> turnpike420: trade all those servers for a single pSeries box ... duct the air coming out of the back of the rack under your desk :)
23:25 < drasch> the real problem is I only have 57MB free on my music drive(s)
23:25 < turnpike420> drasch: ya, I just do 128 bit mp3 for everything... *shrugs*
23:25 < turnpike420> LOL! need more storage!
23:26 < drasch> turnpike420: ugh, it hurts my ears
23:26 < turnpike420> thunderbear_: heh, no more need for a heater in winter eh?! :)
23:26 < thunderbear_> I am hard of hearing but I can clearly hear the faults in 128 bit mp3's
23:26 < turnpike420> ya, I hear them too... BUT, it gives me the most bang for the buck on storage... AND
23:26 < turnpike420> it's easy to estimate how much storage you need... 1MB per minute
23:26 < thunderbear_> disk is so cheap it hardly seems worth it to skimp now
23:26 < turnpike420> (more or less)
23:27 < thunderbear_> if I get low I just see what is on sale at tiger direct
23:27 < turnpike420> I'm being careful not to have tooo much storage and no way to back it up
23:27 < thunderbear_> the pseries thing was only half joking ... I've been very impressed
23:27 < turnpike420> I think my next purchase will be BIG... dual external 500GB drives... mirrored somehow
23:28 < thunderbear_> migrate a linux server to pseries... give it more cpu than it needs and gradually dial it back until you find a sweet spot
23:28 * JasonF migrates thunderbear_
23:28 < thunderbear_> so now I've got a cvs/subversion server with 18,000 users and 600 or so projects on a single processor and they are doing fine.
23:29 < thunderbear_> I'm going to carve it up a bit more so that the <1% of the projects that really abuse the server will be partitioned off in their own LPAR, maybe half a processor, and then the remaining >99% of projects get to share 0.2 CPU
23:30 < thunderbear_> that 0.3 CPU savings represents up to three new servers I can add to the machine
23:30 < thunderbear_> I can dial those numbers up & down without a reboot
23:35 < turnpike420> I don't think we (or I) could afford boxen like that
23:35 < thunderbear_> yeah
23:35 < thunderbear_> very $$$
23:35 < thunderbear_> it would take an IT mgr who can look ahead 2 years and realize the savings over that longer period
23:35 < thunderbear_> once you have it, it's like "duh"
23:36 < thunderbear_> we got our boss to get one (as you might imagine we get a good deal on them heheheh) and I've lost count but I think we have like 6 of them now
23:36 < thunderbear_> the x86 servers are just going away
23:37 -!- bkjones [n=jonesy@c-69-141-167-244.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit []
23:40 < turnpike420> omg
23:53 * thunderbear_ is away: Zzzz
23:53 -!- thunderbear_ is now known as thunder_afk
23:53 -!- thunder_afk [n=thunderb@user-0c2h2bt.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
--- Log closed Wed Oct 25 00:00:04 2006