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New Arena deal agreed to by city and Katz group:mod warning #616

Again, why does the big family of four matter so much? Just because you people want to have tons of **** trophies running around, doesn't mean every form of entertainment in the city needs to be geared towards you. The single person, and 2 person family have just as much a right to entertainment then a big family.

So entertainment (in the form of pro sports no less) is now a human right? Wow, we should probably add that to the Charter.

Your typical condescension aside, there isn't a single specific in the expert piece of blogging by a guy who's expertise is NOT civic affairs, but social media applications.

What libraries? What parks? What specific projects are to be shelved? Should be a very easy question to answer one would think, you know, being so highly tied to City Council and all that...

Right now Meadows is being built. Huge project. Large library, large multi rec facility. Millwoods LRT also being planned and which is in particular need of funding and may still be canned due to lack thereof.

My own prediction is SE/WEst end LRT being canned due to the City overinvesting in the Arena.

You may not believe that, and thats fine, we'll see how it shapes up.

Here, since I'm full of **** according to you do your own research on current and future projects.

Minimum ticket price in the new arena for hockey will easily be 100bucks/ticket with all charges. Easy. If anybody wants to bet on that.
you think a normal family of 4 is going to plunk down 400buck minimum just to get in? Another 100bucks on concessions?

Remember as well people are engaged in "boomspeak' at the moment. Theres nobody here in the 90's that would be suggesting that people would be spending this kind of money on entertainment back then. Premium Oiler tickets were going for 20bucks pretty much any night right outside of Northlands. Scalpers could barely give them away.

Guess what discretionary spending gets cut first during a downturn?

High priced entertainment.

Guess where were headed?

You forgot the IMO here Replacement...and please tell us - where are we headed?

Again, why does the big family of four matter so much? Just because you people want to have tons of **** trophies running around, doesn't mean every form of entertainment in the city needs to be geared towards you. The single person, and 2 person family have just as much a right to entertainment then a big family. And you know what, if they made the decision to save money instead of procreate and they want to spend their expendable income on $300 worth of hockey tickets, what's the problem?

I'm not speaking for myself. I'm speaking on behalf of families. you could PM me to ask why.

I have no horses in this race.

I can afford to pay for any entertainment. I can't however rationalize the expense.

Right now Meadows is being built. Huge project. Large library, large multi rec facility. Millwoods LRT also being planned and which is in particular need of funding and may still be canned due to lack thereof.

My own prediction is SE/WEst end LRT being canned due to the City overinvesting in the Arena.

You may not believe that, and thats fine, we'll see how it shapes up.

Here, since I'm full of **** according to you do your own research on current and future projects.

And, sorry, but there is still not a specific answer to the inquiry. What projects are dead because of the Arena project? Which libraries and rec centers are closing as a direct result of the arena project? Is the Meadow rec project now dead because of this deal?

You clearly stated that the arena deal will have an adverse affect on the average Edmontonian, and you have citied "experts" (?) as "proof". How can specifics be so difficult to provide?

No offense, but what about all the people that don't use libraries or parks but want to go to Oiler games? I am sure there are a lot of hockey fans that feel that way. I'm sure there are also a lot of hockey fans that hate the idea of the city spending money on museums instead of an arena. Those people have the same right to entertainment as anyone else.

You're talking minority, I'm talking plurality.

As it is a very finite amount of people can afford to go to hockey games even if they could get their hands on tickets. With the vast majority of tickets being seasons seats or minpac sales we're not talking opportunity anyway. In a city of 1.2M people how many get to an Oilers game each year?

Doesn't Rexall Place already charge a ticket tax included in ticket prices?

And while the economics of the new arena can completely change ticket prices, I don't think ticket prices will change that much compared to what it would be in the final year the Oilers play at Rexall.

We can assume the demand for Oilers tickets will remain consistent, but the supply of tickets will go up. By increasing the price, with a huge supply, your killing the demand and a not sold ticket is money lost because its too high. Now, if you had kept same price, you might not even fill those seats because the supply has now covered demand in that price range (like those $50 3rd level seats).

So really, the ticket prices can go both ways, but it ultimately comes down to whether people want to pay for those tickets. Not selling a ticket is infinitely worse than selling a ticket for $1, as $1 is better than nothing for those seats.

As it is a very finite amount of people can afford to go to hockey games even if they could get their hands on tickets. With the vast majority of tickets being seasons seats or minpac sales we're not talking opportunity anyway. In a city of 1.2M people how many get to an Oilers game each year?

Then they'll go see the Oil Kings or the ice capades or monster truck show, or whatever it is they do now.

Just pointing out the obvious so that you're not "misleading" anyone. I could see the top level tickets going up to around 10 bucks more..no biggie. The prices will go up a bit, but no where as extravagent as you are bemoaning.

And, sorry, but there is still not a specific answer to the inquiry. What projects are dead because of the Arena project? Which libraries and rec centers are closing as a direct result of the arena project? Is the Meadow rec project now dead because of this deal?

You clearly stated that the arena deal will have an adverse affect on the average Edmontonian, and you have citied "experts" (?) as "proof". How can specifics be so difficult to provide?

And, sorry, but there is still not a specific answer to the inquiry. What projects are dead because of the Arena project? Which libraries and rec centers are closing as a direct result of the arena project? Is the Meadow rec project now dead because of this deal?

You clearly stated that the arena deal will have an adverse affect on the average Edmontonian, and you have citied "experts" (?) as "proof". How can specifics be so difficult to provide?

Its my bet that the Millwoods LRT will once again be shelved. Like it has since 1979, yes, 1979. So I'm kinda used to disappointment in that regard and believe it when I see it. I'm far from the only one living here that thinks so. Of course my enquiries to Sohi on the matter remain unanswered.

Meadows could still be downscaled, downsized or cost cut. as were all the exterior cladding and features for Terwillegar rec center.

Meadows rec center will exist. But how good will it be? Again we'll see.

Its mainly the LRT I'm worried about. To this extent this is my issue. I support public transit always.

Anyway, agree or disagree I find it difficult to argue with you. We both have our good reasons I suspect to be pro/con on this and respect you, and your posting.

As it is a very finite amount of people can afford to go to hockey games even if they could get their hands on tickets. With the vast majority of tickets being seasons seats or minpac sales we're not talking opportunity anyway. In a city of 1.2M people how many get to an Oilers game each year?

So are you. Are you honestly trying to say that a majority of citizens use the library? And just because someone is in a minority doesn't mean that only very basic entertainment options should be available to them. Hell, how many multi-cultural centers etc. are in Edmonton that are actually frequented mostly by people who a majority of their money doesn't even stay in the country let alone the city.

And I haven't even gotten into how much would be lost in the charity front if the Oilers were to go away.

I wear a Katz avatar for a year if I lose. If you lose you sport a Jan Reimer...

The bet is regular priced seating inclusive of all tarriffs an charges will not go appreciably below 100bucks for Oiler games in new facility. Lets say 99bucks because I could see the cheapskates offering that up as a sale price..This is game price tickets btw. not package priced. or seasons seats priced.

Not a hard bet for me either. SRO is currently 62bucks for most games and climbing.

There won't be many cheap seats in the new building. I've researched the designs extensively.

Just pointing out the obvious so that you're not "misleading" anyone. I could see the top level tickets going up to around 10 bucks more..no biggie. The prices will go up a bit, but no where as extravagent as you are bemoaning.

Are you forgetting about the new ticket tax(you know, to help pay for this thing) or that there will be no "nosebleed" configuration equivalent in the new facility and few cheap seats of any kind to begin with?

Remember I'm including ALL charges. Some will likely be invented in the interim..

If you think top priced tickets are going up 10bucks in the new facility you got the wrong idea. The seating layout is the ritz pure and simple.

Its my bet that the Millwoods LRT will once again be shelved. Like it has since 1979, yes, 1979. So I'm kinda used to disappointment in that regard and believe it when I see it. I'm far from the only one living here that thinks so. Of course my enquiries to Sohi on the matter remain unanswered.

Meadows could still be downscaled, downsized or cost cut. as were all the exterior cladding and features for Terwillegar rec center.

Meadows rec center will exist. But how good will it be? Again we'll see.

Its mainly the LRT I'm worried about. To this extent this is my issue. I support public transit always.

Anyway, agree or disagree I find it difficult to argue with you. We both have our good reasons I suspect to be pro/con on this and respect you, and your posting.

Cheers. I, too, respect your intentions and the affinity you have for the city and your community.

I've been involved in so many of these discussions as of late, perhaps I'm in a bit of a "honey badger" mode.

we both want the same thing; a vibrant city with every and all amenities that one could ask for, that caters to all social and economic demographics On that, I know we agree.

Are you serious with this. Mastermaq is a highly respected blogger and source that has deep involvement with EEDC, City Council, is widely quoted on C2E, by journalists,is widely cited by Edmonton business community, leaders, etc. and has lead many downtown events.

This is not some random blogger. This is the biggest Edmonton proponent bar none. A guy that could run for City Hall on his basis of work and win on reputation.

So entertainment (in the form of pro sports no less) is now a human right? Wow, we should probably add that to the Charter.

No, all I am saying, is single people put a ton of money into the cities tax coffers and get next to nothing back from it in comparisons to families, who pay the exact same taxes. You don't hear us constantly complaining every time a new school or playground or anything like that is built that we will have no use for. But heaven forbid the city every builds something that someone with 7 drooling little snots can't afford to go to, because they have human rights.

I'm perfectly aware of the formula, what projects are ongoing, and what community projects and community endeavors are typically funded. I'm also aware Edmonton fast tracked in the fund as they chose to use more of their allocation in recent funding years. Meaning less MSI for upcoming years.

You may do well to read this blog: With the blogger actually being an ardent Pro arena, pro downtown supporter who is questioning this MSI use.

They've been planning for extra infrastructure money outside the MSI since last June the big city charter to help with exactly this type of thing. So the arena shouldnt affect already in the works programs like the LRT.