Posted by Joshua on Friday, June 22nd, 2012

According to reports from people who recently left Syria, moral among even high Syrian officials is down. They openly criticize Assad and talk about his mistakes and being unable to help someone who cannot help himself.

(CBS/AP) BEIRUT – A video emerged Friday showing more than a dozen bloodied corpses in Syria, some of them piled on top of each other and in military uniforms, in what the government said was a “massacre” by rebels in the northern province of … SANA, said terrorist groups had killed and mutilated at least 25 people in Daret Azzeh, a rebel-held area in the Aleppo countryside…..

Mood said the opposition had clearly become better at fighting over the course of the past 15 months of the uprising, according to the diplomat.

CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports that the rebel fighters are becoming increasingly better equipped, thanks to weapons and money supplied by Arab countries hostile to Assad.

The opposition consists of roughly 100 different groups, and as Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told Charlie Rose the U.S. is trying to organize them into a more unified force.

“We’re also working very hard to try to prop up and better organize the opposition. We’ve spent a lot of time on that. It’s still a work in progress.”

The U.S, is not providing weapons to the insurgents, but Martin reports the CIA has begun advising other countries about which opposition groups should receive arms and money.

Correction

Mu`ayin Yahiya al-Assad captured: Presumably [not] a relative of the president because he is a mere captain in the police, Assad is featured in this video as one of the captured shabiha. This is presumably the last image of him before he was killed unless he is being held for ransom. His last name is Assad, which makes him a particularly valued target and this video although he is unlikely to be a relative of the president because of his low rank. There are a number of Assad families.

The Daily Telegraph reports that senior military officers from Syrian president Bashar al-Assad’s regime are preparing to join the opposition. U.S. officials told the newspaper that these figures have started to communicate with opposition forces and Western governments as they make contingency plans for the fall of the regime. The military officers have also started to move their money into Lebanese and Chinese banks. A senior opposition activist said “I know for sure there are some high-ranking officers who are waiting for the right chance to defect. We have names of people in the presidential palace.” This report comes a day after a Syrian pilot, flying a MiG-21 fighter jet, defected to Jordan where he was granted asylum on ‘humanitarian grounds.’ The pilot, Col. Hassan Merei al-Hamade, had been ordered to bomb Dera’a before he flew into Jordan’s King Hussein air base. At least three other pilots flying MiG-21s on that same mission also considered defecting, according to the Telegraph.

…at least 104 civilians, 54 soldiers, and 10 rebel fighters were killed throughout the country. The bloodiest areas were Homs and Douma, near Damascus.

A pan-Arab TV says Syrian air defense system has shot down a Turkish fighter jet near the seaside city of Latakia on Friday. Al-Mayadeen TV said the fighter jet was shot down over the coastal town of Ra’es al-Baseet near Latakia, adding that other jet had also been shot at, without giving further details. June 22, 2012 (Xinhua) —

The Syrian National Council (SNC) announced earlier this month the selection of Abdulbaset Sieda, a little-known moderate Kurd from Uppsala, Sweden, to – for the next three months – lead the opposition group of mostly Syrian exiles in its effort to dislodge the government of President Bashar al-Assad…..

Will Syria’s minorities follow Sieda’s lead?

The day he was chosen, Sieda told a reporter for the Kurdish online newspaper, Rudaw, that he has invited the Kurdish National Council (KNC) to join the Syrian umbrella group. The KNC leadership expressed some optimism that the two groups would work together. KNC leadership praised Sieda for his patriotism but added that success will be determined by his effectiveness as “a bridge of communications to improve relations.”

Kurdish issues loom large in that conversation. Kodmani told Middle East Voices the SNC opposed discrimination against Kurds, supports citizenship for all Kurds, and endorses compensation payments for some of the grievances they have against the Assad regime. But she said the SNC cannot endorse other demands such as Kurdish autonomy or federalism without the consensus of the council.

Syrian Kurds generally do not trust the SNC because they see it as a political group created by and in Turkey, says Ayub Nuri, the editor of Rudaw. “The council he leads right now is not liked by many Syrians: Arabs, Christians, Kurds and the other Syrian minority groups.”

Uniting these opposition groups will be a major challenge, said Nuri. “They are deeply divided. They don’t like each other. So anyone, no matter how experienced or how loyal or how hard-working, will have the challenge of satisfying all of these different groups, which I think is impossible.”

Nuri also described the majority of Syria’s Kurds – approximately 10 to 15 percent of Syria’s total population of an estimated 22.5 million – as disengaged from the revolution. Most are unemployed and very poor. They tend to avoid violence because their own struggle with the Assad regime in 2004 ended in the deaths of hundreds of Kurds. “Now, they say the others should do it: ‘We are tired of bloodshed and imprisonment.’”

Can Sieda restructure the Syrian National Council?

Critics of the SNC say future success will be determined not by who is chosen to lead the organization but whether the council is prepared for a structural reorganization on many fronts. The SNC’s Kodmani said reorganization is taking place, but others are skeptical that significant improvements will be made.

The council he leads right now is not liked by many Syrians: Arabs, Christians, Kurds and the other Syrian minority groups – Amr al-Azm, a Syrian American invited to SNC ‘s first meetings. “These problems include issues of transparency, decision-making, how finances are managed, and the lack of a clear vision,” said Amr al-Azm, a Syrian American who teaches archaeology at Shawnee State University in Ohio. A Sunni whose father is a recognized opposition figure and who remains in the SNC, al-Azm was invited to the organizational meetings of the group but declined to join.

“One of the key problems I have with the council is that it is dominated by Islamists, not just members of the Muslim Brotherhood,” al-Azm said. Others have said that Ghalioun – who is a Christian – was put forward by the Brotherhood to downplay their Islamists image. Al-Azm said the Brotherhood supported Sieda for the same reason.

Another member of the SNC, George Sabra – a Christian with close links to Syria’s street activists – was in the running for the leadership position, said Al-Azm. But Sabra was perceived as a threat to the status quo of the leadership, Al-Azm said.

“The Muslim Brotherhood refused to let him take that seat because he is independent-minded. He can make decisions and I think that, in itself, may have interfered with the current balance of power in the SNC.”

The SNC’s short history

The short history of the SNC includes charges of the failure of Ghalioun to consult the membership before making important decisions, as well as the failure of the executive to call for votes among the membership. Three months ago, Gulf newspaper Al Arabiya reported that three of the SNC’s founders – a former judge, a human rights lawyer and opposition leader Kamal al-Labwami – complained about Muslim Brotherhood dominance, the council’s failure to arm the rebels. Having charged the leadership with corruption, they left the council. Two have since returned.

Can a Moderate Kurd Unite the Syrian Revolution?

Kurds are reluctant rebels these days but demonstrated in Qamishli last year with this sign: “We call for a new constitution in which all sects and nationalities in the country can participate.”

“They lurch from crisis to crisis,” said al-Azm. “I don’t see how expanding the SNC to include a few more members of the minorities will fundamentally address the core problems of the SNC, the issues of transparency, leadership and a clear vision.”

Al-Azm is concerned that time is running out for the SNC.

“There is no connection left anymore between the SNC as a sort of political entity and the street which has moved beyond and is not protesting and acting totally independent of such a leadership.”

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Comments (416)

Alansaid:

Usually the sun appear after the storm!
Mu`ayin Yahiya al-Assad caputred:
High-level Syrian military officers prepare to defect (as summarized by Foreign Policy)
The articles listed above appear as part of psychological warfare!
Commits the Western world, led by the United States a serious mistake for breeding terrorism in different parts of the world! How the United States will fall victim to its own sooner or later
History will teach the donkey even if Iraq was not a lesson!
———————————————
Can a Moderate Kurd Unite the Syrian Revolution?
This website is offline

Alan, thank you for bringing that to our attention. I will inform Dr. Landis in order to update the correct link.

Ardogan is playing this incident down. he knows that its a test case for him and for the west.

All west medias are playing it down. They know that Syrian forces will not shoot unless they know that Russia is behind them. Or was it maybe the Russian defence in Tartus that downed one aircraft and damages another one?

I doubt that Syria expressed its regret but the hurt turkish Pride screams always for apologize……..

There is a moment in my memoir, The Bread of Angels: A Journey to Love and Faith, in which I stand across from Hassan, an Iraqi refugee who has found himself stranded in Damascus during the Iraq War. Hassan and I had become unlikely friends, an American and an Iraqi on opposite sides of a war but feeling equally foreign in Damascus. In the book I recount how he handed me an old black-and-white postcard of his beloved Baghdad that he had carried with him when he fled. “When you remember Baghdad, I want you to remember it like this,” he instructed me. “Like it was when it was paradise.”

And that is why the EU has levied strong sanctions on it, just for the fun of it.

The very basis of international law is the declaration of human rights, and the Assad regime repeatedly violates it. The morality you support is quite strange: You are allowed to kick your kids and even kill them, as long as you don’t trespass onto your neighbor’s yard (which to you is of course much worse).

If anyone wants to fight Russian troops in Syria, I say: let them go ahead!!
Putin is due to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu in Tel Aviv next week. I have a feeling that his statement to Netanyahu will be something like, “No more war talk against either Syria or Iran: NYET!!”

Syria may apologize politely for shooting a plane violating Syria’s air space, but when is Erdogan going to apologize for the daily violation of international law in hosting and supporting militarily armed rebels who are committing murders and massacre in Syria and who want to overthrow the government of a country part of the United Nations?
Every successful leader gets to a peak and fall. By his arrogance, Erdogan is starting his slope down.

The West is so pathetically paralyzed that they are trying to pick on any minor sign just to feel that something is happening.

The lesson to Hillary: Don’t encourage people to fight, if, when they are in real trouble, you just dump them and let then kill each other.

The lesson to the ‘revolutionists’: Don’t start a revolution when you don’t know where you are going and when you don’t have neither a leader or an ideology and forget about the USA and the EU’ help if your country has no oil.

We heard of the threat of massive demonstrations, massive sanctions that would cripple the economy to zero, massive strikes of Sunni merchants, next we hear the threat of civil war, then threats of massive defections among officials.
I think the opposition is “massively” in trouble with hundreds of different group that Hillary and the Arab League wants to unite during a meeting in a city symbolizing unity: Cairo

24. BRONCO said: The West is so pathetically paralyzed that they are trying to pick on any minor sign just to feel that something is happening.

and, yet, just last week, you were posturing a scenario that painted the likelihood that bashar was out on the ledge and close to being forced off the stage. but insisting his removal wouldn’t count as a victory for the opposition.

me, i don’t count my chickens until the eggs have hatched. i was shocked that you were willing to concede bashar was dead man walking.

It seems that Syria gets some advantages: first it proves to the world that its Russian made air defense is efficient. Second that Syria will not allow its air space to be violated. Third that now that the pilots are in its custody, it is up to Turkey that has no diplomatic representation to scramble to get their air pilots back.

Turkey has repeated its does not a war with Syria. It would be much too costly for Turkey.
Will proud and arrogant Erdogan resist acting foolishly?

“Despite reports that two Turkish pilots ejected from the plane and they were safe, Erdoğan said “there was no information on the state of the pilots.” But he denied reports that Turkish pilots were taken hostage by Syrian forces. In his separate dialogue with journalists travelling with him, Erdoğan “If this is true, then there would be a great problem.”

The BS is coming thick and fast now, the MSM can’t even keep their stories straight.

The Daily Telegraph “understands” that 3 other pilots also thought about defecting “according to activists” (I love that line – you can make up any BS and just add those three words to the end of the sentence and voila! instant news).

Apparently, according the Daily Telegraph, the regime is on the verge of collapse with diplomats and “senior” regime officials and Army Officers preparing to defect – I am surprised that they did not say it was Asma herself who was planning to defect from the presidential palace.

The linguistic contortionists in the MSM are getting extremely creative – the killing of 25 people in Dier Azzeh, become “shabiha” because they were not from the opposition – otherwise they would have “civilians.”

This is either a transparent effort by the intelligence services of the western powers to get the regime to isolate itself and start a witch hunt for potential defectors or plain old run-of-the-mill propaganda.

The opposition has been desperate for someone, anyone, to defect and now suddenly we supposedly have whole armies of people wanting to defect, as if the thousands of soldiers that the opposition have killed in the past year have no family or friends or relatives. Even the 3 other pilots with the defecting pilot who allegedly thought about defecting with him and changed their minds, knowing perfectly well that if the defector told the world that they were also thinking of defecting with him they would surely be arrested for treason or at the very least not allowed to fly again – but they nevertheless though it was a good idea to “turn back” – yeah right!

­Saudi official are planning to pay salaries to the Free Syrian Army, an opposition group fighting Syrian government forces, reports The Guardian. The move is meant to encourage military defectors, who are considered to make up the FSA core, and thus increase pressure on President Bashar Al-Assad. The preparations, coordinated with the US and several other Arab countries, come as Saudi Arabia and Qatar increase arms supplies to the Syrian rebels. The Syrian military has been encouraged by the French Foreign Legion to desert en masse. Paris also expressed approval of a Syrian military pilot who made an emergency landing in Jordan on Thursday and appealed for political asylum there.http://www.rt.com/news/line/2012-06-22/#id33095

Syrians, listen to the call of your ex-colonizer, listen to Zionists Jewish Laurent Fabius and his assistant Bernard Valero, it’s for your own good!

France calls on Syrian army to desert en masse

The French Foreign Ministry called on Friday for the Syrian military to desert en masse. Paris addressed the armed forces a day after a Syrian air force colonel defected and landed his MiG fighter in Jordan. The defection “leads us to call on members of the Syrian army and security forces to continue these defections, these desertions,” spokesman Bernard Valero said, as cited by AFP. He called on the Syrian soldiers no longer to obey “the Damascus regime’s criminal orders.”

The Quote that Syria appologized,is not true as it came from lebanese sources, Erdogan denied that when he talked to the Media..

Zoo you said Syria has the pilot?, is this what you meant?

I heared that the pilot said that his plane was downed by Syria, I don’t know where he is now,the news are not clear but if Syria downed the plane,it may require more than apology. and I don’t think Syria will appologize.

Yes I have heard about the sectarian clashes in Rhineland. In 1974 in the city of Essen, the Police tried to evict the local Jesuits, but the Catholic population of the city protested violently and there were 4 days of violent clashes between the Catholics and the Police which was ultimately calmed by the Army.

But I think the phase the Middle East is going through now, particularly regarding sectarianism, is similar to what Europeans went through in the 16th-17th century and agains in the 19th century.

Especially when sectarianism has been linked with things like pride, humiliation, revenge, national pride, military victories and defeats, it becomes more dangerous. Even small victories and defeats are seen as triumphs or humiliations to the 2 sects ( Sunni and Shia).

I think you have heard how sectarianism is still a BIG problem in Northern Ireland. I discovered this in 2007 when there were huge ugly riots between Protestants and Catholics in Belfast. This is one of the few countries in Europe where sectarianism is still a big factor ( another is Bosnia-Herzegovina).

This is a very useful documentary about the sectarian divide in Northern Ireland , it shows the huge 25 ft high “Peace Walls” that have been built all across Belfast to sepaarte Catholic and Protestant neighbourhoods from attacking each other,

The documentary also gives full background of the sectarian conflict in Northern Ireland and how it is tied up with the issue of Irish nationalism.

Northern Ireland witnessed 30 years of full Civil War between the IRA and the British Goverernment, there were many sectarian incidents in the civil war, there were some incidnets in which buses were stopped on the roads and people killed on the basis of sect.

What I don’t understand is why the International community and the UN still hasn’t learned lessons from these conflicts.

The “apologies” were reported in local Turkish media Haberturk
As of the pilots, they are alive but Turkey does not where they are, so speculation are going wild.

“Earlier, local media had quoted Erdogan as saying that Syria had apologised over the fighter jet crash, in a comment that suggested it had downed the plane.

“Syria immediately offered a very serious apology for the incident and admitted it was a mistake,” the Haberturk daily newspaper quoted Erdogan as saying onboard a plane on his way back from Brazil.”

Despite reports that two Turkish pilots ejected from the plane and they were safe, Erdoğan said “there was no information on the state of the pilots.” But he denied reports that Turkish pilots were taken hostage by Syrian forces. In his separate dialogue with journalists travelling with him, Erdoğan “If this is true, then there would be a great problem.”

He’s had many opportunities over many months to stop things getting to this stage, but now he faces the Saudis generously funding (and Turks facilitating) paychecks to Syrian army personnel who wish to defect.

This looks like real endgame territory. A bit like Gaddafi’s NATO moment.

Will Assad be able to get Russia to finance paychecks for the Syrian army which he’s now rumored to be unable to pay?

Not only nobody gives a penny for Assad but also nobody is afraid anymore of Assad Repression System. The only thing remains from Assad killing and torturing machine are shabbihas, who are just ignorant bodies without brain with a kalashnikov or a K2 in their hands. Assad will be responsible in history of destroying Syria. His father built a state without society, his son will leave a new society without a state. Shame on you Assad. Now syrians will discover how dangerous is leaving the power of a state in the hands of the inmature son of an iron dictator. Now we will discover why Republican System does not accept hereditary rule. Assad is childish, rude, ignorant and out of reality. He thoght he could cheat the world while repressing its own people. Assad is a frustrated personality in front of History Eyes.
Go home Assad go home. And never come back.

Syria slapped turkey in the face and sent a strong message to everyone who dares to even think of an attack: Syria is ready for you. My condolences go for many people who counted heavily on [EDIT By Mod: Erodgan]. His talk was cheap and he barely mentioned the incident. I believe he was in a total shock. Hahahah, viva Syria

Between failed Annan plan, KSA generously supporting the FSA, and Turkey being on thrir side, and if true, the CIA involvement in arming the rebels; do the regime supporters seriously think Assad has a chance?

The Assads have been a pointless tragedy and disaster for Syria from day 1 of Hafez’s coup. History will show 42 years of waste, vicious repression and stupidity ending in inevitable implosion for the illegitimate “Assad state”.

Put aside all the personality defects, feebleness and ineptness of Bashar, his central crime and biggest idiocy was taking the job of dictator in the 21st century.

That’s why the whole world now sees him and his regime as an ugly joke without the right or qualifications to run a sovereign state.

If the Syrian air defense system is that advanced, how come the rabbit of Golan never downed any Israeli jet roaming the Syrian sky freely in the past? Coward with Israel and a hero with Turkey? Does he think Turkey is unlikely to retaliate? How many times Erdogan is “reserving the right to respond “?

Omen addresses Amir, Omen is concerned that there is an unnormal black frame in the rebel video of the massacre pile. Omen expresses no concern that there is a pile of 25 slaughtered men, who slaughtered them, how and why they were slaughtered. Viva la revolucion.

The USA stunned. No doubts: The Russian air defense system works well. If Turkey is able to violate the Syrian ground territorial borders to sneak in unwanted journalists and armed rebels, the air and sea seem well protected

“In the light of the information gathered, it’s been understood that our aircraft was shot down by Syria,” said a government statement issue following a high-level security meeting late yesterday.

Search and rescue efforts to locate the plane’s two missing pilots are continuing, it said, adding that the efforts were being assisted by Syrian vessels.

“Turkey will take all necesary steps and will take its final position after the full [explanation] of the incident,” the statement said.

A Turkish source had said yesterday that Syria expressed sorrow after the incident, in which a Turkish jet went down in Syrian territorial waters just before noon yesterday.

“We’ve seen the reports you’ve seen. We have obviously been in contact with our Turkish ally. But with regard to the specifics of the case, I think we’re going to let the Turks speak to it rather than speak to it ourselves. I think we’ll let the Turks speak to it. To my knowledge, they haven’t raised this at NATO at this point.”, US State Department spokesperson Victoria Nuland said.

Women in Turkey just don’t work. Our country has the lowest female labor force participation rate among the OECD, including Mexico and Korea. Below 30 percent, Turkey’s female labor force participation rate is like Ireland’s in 1981. Turkey ranks lowest even among Muslim-majority countries. What is the problem? Why don’t women work in this country?
….
No wonder Turkey was ranked 116th in the Newsweek/The Daily Beast survey of the best and worst places for women. Cambodia, Indonesia, Malaysia, Peru and Tunisia are all better than Turkey in this list of 165 countries. Let me finish with a positive touch: Turkey is ahead of Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Afghanistan.

….

Turkish woman barred from public bus by religious fanatics

A Turkish woman claimed she was prevented from boarding a public bus by a group of Islamists because her outfit would “cause them to sin,” according to a report by daily Evrensel.

(Reuters) – As evidence mounts of Islamic militant forces among the Syrian opposition, senior U.S. and European officials are increasingly alarmed by the prospect of sophisticated weapons falling into the hands of rebel groups that may be dangerous to Western interests, including al Qaeda.

In an interview with Reuters, U.S. Defense Secretary Leon Panetta articulated U.S. worries that shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missiles, also known as MANPADS, could find their way onto the Syrian battlefield

It did not warn the plane and it did not scramble any aircraft to go investigate. What about the transponder beacon? surely they know what aircraft it is. If the transponder was off then the Turks were probing the system at this time. This is a very smart move on their part for now the frequency and location of the air defense will be known.

1. If the order to shoot a Turkish plane was made deliberately it could mean
a) we have air defense systems in place
b) we will fight NATO if need be
c) We are in control of the military
2. If the order was meant to shoot at airplanes that may be defecting
a) it means they cannot trust the pilots anymore
b) they are really nervous about aircraft defecting and bombing the regular army

What gain does Syria’s regime get from this.
Now it will mean that the air defense system will be scrutinized and perhaps probed further in case plans are set to destroy it and intervene.

If this is a Russian message to the countries supporting the rebellion then it will certainly backfire as it shows that the regime is a wild uncontrollable destabilizing entity. Or is it a message from Russia that the weapon system they sell is effective?

In the meantime, the meeting of Lavrov and the Drum Moualek came out with a request for both sides to withdraw their troops. Therefore there is a tacit recognition that the rebels are a force on the ground and that their demands are genuine.

The warplane incident is a troublesome development in an already tense region. The plane shouldn’t be there in the first place and sovereign states have the right to protect its territories. As Thomas Aquinas said” In order for a war to be just, three things are necessary. First, the authority of the sovereign. Secondly, a just cause. Thirdly, a rightful intention. None of these is warranted.

I hope it was a “one time and unfortunate incident” for the sake of Turkish and Syrian people.

As you mentioned Bosnia, when i was stationed there I had a chance to talk and meet people from all faiths. Very few would blame the religion, they all knew each other, and respected each other, the reason for war was not their religion, the religion was used to seperate the nations. Unfortunatly humankind is adapting fast to revengeful actions. In Mostar they bombed the so famous bridge which connected the christian areas with the muslim areas( also this bridge is a national symbol, every Bosnian knows it from an old novel). They rebuilded it, although the church and the mosque as well, only that the churchtower was now 10 m higher, so the Muslims would build the minaret higher too. Islam as i saw it there was moderate, no Bosnian would ever come up with the idea to seperate men from women, in the mosques you saw always that both sexes were in the same room. The war has changed peoples perception of their religion. The Saudis had nothing better to to than to build just an other ugly concrete mosue, this time the biggest mosque of the Balkan inmidst the former olympic city of Sarajewo, 6 years after the war this 100 Million Dollar Mosqe was still surrounded by houses with bombed craters on them, many still had no windows or doors. Unfortunatly the influence of Saudi Arabia as well as of Iran in the country was noticeable. One time i remember the Mufti of Sarajewo was speaking on behalf of cristmas and congratulated the Christians. Next day the outraged Saudi ambassador was qouted by having said: How can you congratulate unbelievers on their unbelief.

If the pilot that defected was ordered to bomb Dara’a why doesn’t the picture of the MIG in Jordan doesn’t show any bombs or missiles attached to it? I heard on NPR that his family escaped to Turkey the same time he defected, that’s put a huge hole in the three other pilots who wanted to defect story

still there are folks out there who belive that the Syrian Army is not responseable for the violence, its so brave to beat up youngsters who are already on the ground. But those folks also believe that 500 Lira bills are put in sandwiches and people demonstrate in syrian towns to thank God for the rain.

jna, get over yourself. not that the rebels are faultless but assad propagandists routinely assign to the opposition atrocities the regime itself committed. but if one withholds judgement, and wait a few days, the reality usually trickles out.

bashar media advisor gave the game away on the regime’s intentions of plotting a campaign of lies when she opined that the american psyche is easily manipulated.

wiki: Hassoun is considered to be a firm ally of Syrian President Bashar Assad.[10] In response to a perceived threat of NATO intervention, Hassoun is reported to have threatened retaliation through suicide bombings in the US and EU.[11]

i think violations of airspace happen every day, I read over 60 on a given day in Germany alone, only nations with a reputation of temper would make it an issue.In that region with an ultraspeed jet in 15 minutes you could cross your borders if we take Israel and Syria alone.

When I was in Damascus during the last Israel-Hisbollah war, a couple of times the israeli air force visited Bashars house( it was the talk of the town then), a clear sign and what happend? Nothing. I do believe what an former general to the Syrian Army said, the armys force is over exaggerated and the moral is not in favor of the regime. Merely the west is using this picture of an overall sophisticated syrian army with an hightech aircontrol, in order to have an excuse not to intervene. If that would be true, how come the Israli army could enter Syrian airspace for 30 minutes heading to Deir az Zohr and back to destroy some “warehouses” as the regime said? I do believe that this shows that the syrian army may be good for keeping down internal rebellions, but can not deal with foreign armies. Of course the we love you fraction will say that because the eyedoctor is such a wise men he dared not to react to the provocations by their enemy number 1: Israel.

Omen

I bet he is on a UN visa run, the US cant do much if he is representing his regime. May be he finds the time to shop for Asma on 5th Ave. Would love to see him search for Louboutins…

“Turkey will present its final stance after the incident has been fully brought to light and decisively take the necessary steps”

Actually, Erdogan you friggin wimp, it’s the complete and utter LACK of decisiveness on your part over the past 15 months that has gotten you in a situation where a 3rd rate army like the Syrian one feels it can shot down your planes with impunity. We’ve all seen what Turkish “decisiveness” actually means, just alot of hot air.

Al-Moallem, Lavrov hold talks on current situation in Syria, agree on supporting Annan plan and continued cooperation with observershttp://www.champress.net/index.php?q=en/Article/view/2427
St. Petersburg, Russia– Foreign and Expatriates Minister Walid al-Moallem and Russian counterpart Sergei Lavrov reviewed the bilateral relations and the current situation in Syria.

The talks were held in St. Petersburg on Friday within the framework of the continuous coordination between the Syrian and Russian leaderships.

The two sides’ viewpoints were in agreement regarding the need to support the plan of Special Envoy to Syria Kofi Annan and the continued cooperation between the Syrian government and the UN observers mission as the two sides stressed the necessity of exerting efforts to stop all forms of violence by all parts.

Lavrov stressed the firmness of Russia’s stance which calls for a political solution to the Syrian crisis by the Syrian people without any external interference…./../….

He also added in the same interview which featured in the newspaper Maariv that “The infiltrators along with the Palestinians will quickly bring us to the end of the Zionist dream,”

With particular reference to the few hundred South Sudanese refugees living in Israel, the comments by made by Yishai were delivered as the government set about enforcing its new policy-to expel the South Sudanese.(…)

The Turkish lira fell sharply on Friday after a news report said a Turkish warplane had been shot down by Syrian air defenses, and analysts said it would be vulnerable to further losses as more details of the incident emerged.

Turkey’s stock and bond markets had closed before news of the jet downing came out.

ANKARA – Turkish Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc said on Saturday a jet that was shot down by Syria a day earlier was not a warplane but a reconnaissance aircraft [SPY plane], state television TRT reported.

Is Bashar becoming suicidal? Or is he really the decision maker? What benefit he gets from downing the jet? Giving the world an illusion that he has a strong military capability? Did he not learn a lesson from Saddam? Or did he just want to improve morales after the high level defection?

“It is not possible to cover over a thing like this, whatever is necessary will be done,” Turkish President Abdullah Gul said, according to state news agency Anatolia, adding that Ankara had been in telephone contact with Syrian authorities.

He said it was routine for fast-flying jets to cross borders for a short distance and that an investigation would determine whether the F-4 fighter was brought down in Turkish airspace.
Syria’s military said the Turkish aircraft was flying low, just one kilometer off the Syrian coast, when it was shot down.

“The navies of the two countries have established contact. Syrian naval vessels are participating along with the Turkish side in the search operation for the missing pilots,” it said.
With the second biggest army in NATO, a force hardened by nearly 30 years of fighting Kurdish rebels, Turkey would be a formidable foe for a Syrian military already struggling to put down a popular uprising and an increasingly potent insurgency.
..
“Turkey will present its final stance after the incident has been fully brought to light and decisively take the necessary steps,” said a statement from Erdogan’s office.

Turkish newspapers were less restrained.
“They (the Syrians) will pay the price,” said Vatan, while Hurriyet daily said “He (Assad) is playing with fire.”
…
However, Khashan said he did not expect a harsh military reaction from Turkey. “It is under a tight leash by the United States. They don’t want to start a war tomorrow.”
….
It was unclear why the Syrians had shot down the aircraft, which, having left a base in Malatya, was flying close to a corridor linking Turkey with Turkish forces on Northern Cyprus.
“The Syrian military may have taken a calculated gamble by downing the Turkish plane, which could boost the morale of Assad’s loyalists after increased defections from the military,” said Yasser Saadeldine, an opposition Syrian commentator.
“A Turkish retaliation would fit into the fantasy he (Assad) is peddling that the uprising is a foreign conspiracy.”
…..,,

The best sentence in the above-article: “Yasser Saadeldine, an opposition Syrian commentator (said) “A Turkish retaliation would fit into the fantasy he (Assad) is peddling that the uprising is a foreign conspiracy”
With the opposition commentators, you will never be disappointed when it comes to logic.

Syrian President Bashar al-Assad formed a new government on Saturday, but kept on the heads of its interior, defence and foreign ministries, state television reported.

The reappointment of Defence Minister Daoud Rajha will quash widespread rumours previously denied by the government that Rajha had been assassinated by rebels who are struggling to bring down Assad’s rule.

Zoo said the pilots were alive, the news so far no evidence that they were found,The Syrian Turkish agreement says that Syrian forces must stay away 5 Kilometer from actual border.
Considering the speed of the plane,and we must know the direction of the plane as it passed over Syrian border,how long time the plane was over Syria, how deep was the penetration,.how many time the plane violated the border.
If what we hear is true, the plane was shot after it crossed the border by one kilometer,this can be done in less than half minute, infact a plane at a speed of 1000 Km an hour can cross one Km in 16 second,this is not a time that Syrian defense can get such response.
I hope the pilots are truely alive.

The simple truth is that Syrians reached a threshold above which they could not tolerate the regime’s corruption, enslavery, neoptism, and sectarianism. They revolted for freedom, dignity, and social justice. Bashar responded by brutality, killing, and torture. His media machine invented the global conspiracy theme to justify the savagery. The world did not believe this invented conspiracy and the world’s human conscious was appalled by the scene of a man killing and brutalizing his own people.

I know as a fact that Erdogan cultivated a personal and family relationship with Bashar, Asma, Sahar, and Fawaz. They were dear friends. Erdogan changed his mind later about Bashar not because he woke up one day a new-ottoman. He changed his mind because he has like the rest of us a human conscious.

Syria is testing Erdogan and the Western media is playing down the event.

Erdogan has repeatedly refused to get into a unilateral war with Syria. A war, even a mini-war is a disaster for Turkey, politically and economically. The PKK is more active than ever and everyday there are dead Turkish soldiers.
Polls show that Turks want Turkey to stop its involvement in Syria.

Now the Turkish opposition may challenge Erdogan on the presence of a ‘routine’ SPY plane over the border when Turkey just denied it is helping the armed rebels.
If Erdogan plays down the event, it will show that he is paralyzed and that will may allow Syria to test him further.

Your truth may be “simple” but the truth of the others Syrians is not simple at all.

I had hope that Turkey would play a conciliatory role when the events started. Instead Davutoglu came to Damascus to give ‘big brother’ orders and deadlines to Bashar Al Asaad. He obviously did not know Arabs well. He was politely thanked and his naive “advices” ignored.
Erdogan was furious as he always is when someone does not obey him and he started impulsively his anti-Bashar smearing campaign that brought an escalation of the violence on the Syrians.

Overall Turkey’s role in Syria has been negative and disappointing and the price tag is growing by the day.

Finally after 10 days Shaykh Yaqoubi has tweeted. The Shaykh is asking us to look out for signs. I wonder if this is based on spiritual insight? He knows something we don’t? Something about to happen? :

When the Russians start evacuating their citizens from Syria, know that the deal is done and the regime has collapsed.

I strongly disagree with those who are criticizing the shooting of a military jet over a war zone in syrian sovereign airspace at a time of intense anxiety. The action by Turkey was not justified and the reaction by the Syrian army was swift and somewhat harsh but fully justifiable. That jet fighter had no business being there in the first place especially when everybody knows that the mission of the day for most foreign powers is to undermine the Syrian army and destroy the integrity of Syria’s borders.
I do not see this event getting bigger,the message was received,Turkey now needs a statement from the regime to sooth its wounded pride,that statement may or may not come. An American friend who is a retired army officer said that the US is mostly interested in verifying whether any missiles were used,and if not,this incident will raise many eyebrows in Washington.

Are you referring to Assad who claimed that the Arab Spring would never reach Syria a few weeks before it did?

Erdogan for years cultivated the relationship with Assad. So he does not know Assad? What is this “Arab” trait that Assad has that he prefers to shoot people instead of letting them protest? And what is “Arab” about pissing off your closest supporter and neighbor and isolating yourself even more, exactly what Assad did?

It has nothing to do with being an Arab and everything to do with being an arrogant fool. For years regime supporters were praising Assad for creating a strong relationship with Turkey. Now you are praising him for breaking it up over one meeting in which Assad’s pride was hurt. Get your story straight.

if the plane was shot 20 Km inside syrian territorial water,then Syria is justified for the shooting, if the shooting was within one Km then Syria made big mistake,and retaliation must be expected, specially if the pilots are dead,

Hassoun will be in Washington D.C. on June 28. Maybe he will have time to speak to the pro-Assad terrorists in the U.S. who are waiting to be activated for suicide attacks in America.

He will receive a hero’s welcome from the we-love-you crowd, especially the ones who hold U.S. citizenship yet worship the terrorists who are responsible for the deaths of thousands of American soldiers.

“Erdogan for years cultivated the relationship with Assad. So he does not know Assad?”

Erdogan does not even know his own people.

Since the visit of Mr. Assad and Syrias first lady to Turkey most liberal Turkes wish to have a first lady as intelligent and liberal as Ms. Assad.
They always considerd Syria as a backwarded country, but the a.m visit opened their eyes widely.
Yes, we have the most charming, intelligent and cultivated first lady in the region and beyond it.

Yes, we need such intelligent and liberal women and men to bring Syria forward.

Turkey will do nothing they do not want to do for their own interests.

If Turkey needs to attack Syria will do it with or without planes being shot down. Turkey is showing day after day they are allies of Assad.

The problem is that Turkey is afraid of attacking the Assadist Regime in Damascus so they prefer Assad stability to chaos. The problem is that UNO are afraid of dictatorships falling down. The world order needs dictatorships to justify some economical and geoestrategical realities and confrontations. US, Israel and Russia knwo it very well.

There is an amazing war taking place in monetary terms in a global level between Europe and US and another war taking place in diplomatic terms between east (Iran, Syria) and west. Both could reach their climax in some few months. A war with Iran could destroy the Eurozone by skyrocketing oil costs and creating chaos in the markets. So by end of 2012 we could be near to the end of the world as we know it.

If Bashar had taken so much as a pot-shot at an Israeli fighter plane, he would have woken up the next day with his army a smoldering pile of junk. But Turkish politics is like their soap operas; something “decisive” always seems just over the horizon, but nothing big ever happens.

Erdogan’s repeated failures to back up his words in his dealings with Bashar is the reason he finds himself in the sorry situation he’s in now. When you talk tough to a dictator, you have to back up your words, otherwise said dictator will (rightly) conclude that you are all bark and no bite.

Now, let’s examine the manner in which the plane was shot down. If anyone thinks that this was the first time a Turkish fighter plane strayed into Syrian airspace, then I’d recommend they stop smoking whatever it is they are currently on. The plane was shot down by anti-aircraft guns, not missiles. The F-4 is a heavily armored aircraft, and the only AA gun that could bring it down is the ZSU-23, which the regime has used extensively in its murderous suppression of Syrian cities.

The ZSU-23 (which every Homsi knows is called the Shilka) has a very short range. Obviously, Syrian missile sites are well known to the Turks by now, and the F-4 avoided those. But it is next to impossible to know the location of every mobile AA vehicle the size of the Shilka. The Syrian army would have noted the usual path that Turkish F-4s take, placed some Shilkas in its path, and brazenly shot it down.

It was a deliberate stick in Erdogan’s eye. Erdogan will, of course, huff and puff and threaten to blow the House of Assad down, but will eventually find a way to make the whole miserable episode last week’s story. Look to him to stir up some manufactured argument with Israel soon. That’s always popular in the Middle East.

Do you mean that Turkey is backtracking on its insults and threats to Bashar Al Assad when it realized that he was much stronger than expected by remaining in power after having outsmarted Turkey and its western allies?

Are you also making a U-Turn after having non stop predicted the “imminnent” fall of Bashar?

AMMAN (Reuters) – Syria’s army battled rebels and shelled neighborhoods in Deir al-Zor on Saturday, killing at least 28 people in the eastern city in an oil-producing region close to the border with Iraq, opposition activists said.

If Syria’s government fall then Iran will lose a friend that can make Israel and the US hesitate about attacking it,

If Syria’s government stay then it will be wounded and in debt for years to come to rebuild the country and will have no strength to fight Israel

If Turkey gets involved, that is even better as that will destroy Syria and Tukey in the same time and Israel the supperpower in the Mideast.

All solutions and outcomes are going Israel’s way .

About the plane , probably it was a test for the Syrian deffences and to see what kind of misles Syria has, they were probably shocked that Syria brought down the plane with AA bateries, Turkey should understatd that Syria does not want a fight with Turkey and the plane was shot down by a nervous Syrian army with the fingers on the triger,

The Turkish reconnaissance plane, which took off from Malatya air base (where recently a NATO radar was based as a part of the Missile Shield System), seemed to be on an intelligence mission in the east Mediterranean. President Abdullah Gül on June 23 said the Turkish plane might have violated Syrian air space by mistake because of its high speed. That is why Turkey is trying not to escalate the scandal by making a statement blaming Syria and not immediately calling NATO for joint action.

The opposition parties are well aware of that. Kemal Kılıçdaroğlu, the leader of the main opposition Republican People’s Party (CHP) has said there were a number of questions to ask to the government but Turkey should act in calm and try to solve the crisis through diplomatic means.

The incident has put Turkish foreign policy regarding Syria in additional difficulty. Turkey has been actively taking part in supporting the Syrian opposition in their struggle to depose the al-Assad regime. Turkey has been hosting more than 35,000 refugees from Syria including 12 army officers of brigadier general and higher ranks; they are in contact with the Syrian National Council and Free Syrian Army, both having central missions in Turkey.

Following Saturday’s meeting at the Foreign Ministry a third meeting was called by Erdoğan in order to find the proper move to make regarding the incident; one of the most difficult decisions to take in recent years.

Turkey can not afford a military confrontation with Syria. Its high holiday season. A conflict will cause mass cancellation of booking.
As consequence Erdogan will loose his supporters. US and EU are suffering under the financial crises and can not aid Turkey, and the resources of KSA and Qatar are limited.

It is astonishing how so many people on this site and the broader media are predicting a quick end to the Baathist regime in Damascus. It’s as if every news report about the present Syrian conflict strongly hints that days of Bashaar Assad are coming to an end shortly. What rubbish!

As long time readers of this blog are aware I have been a vocal critic of the Assad regime and have predicted its inevitably end one day. However this does not mean that it will occur anytime soon. Indeed the present Syrian conflict is eerily similar to two previous Middle East wars and both of these past events can tell us a great deal of what Syrians should expect in the future and the time lines involved.

The first is the rule of Saddam Hussein after his defeat in the Persian Gulf War in 1991. Like the present Syrian situation, everyone at the time predicted that Saddam would be quickly deposed of by his people. It was also reported that moral among his officer corp was poor so a coup by his officer corp was inevitable. Worse yet, the pundits proclaimed, how long could he last while his own Sunni tribes suffered under crushing international sanctions? The answer was 13 more years! And even then, he was only defeated after an international coalition of 100,000 troops was sent him to topple him! Something that is highly unlikely in today’s Syrian war.

The second conflict that gives an indication of where the present Syrian war is headed is the Algerian Civil War that began in 1990. In that war a corrupt military regime found itself against matched against a highly popular Islamic uprising. Like the present day Syrian uprising, the Algerian Islamists insurgents were initially poorly trained but had outside support. Unlike the present day Syrian conflict however, the Algerian Islamist opposition was well organized. Again in this conflict the Islamists were considered to be the inevitable victors because of there broad based support. The military junta was repeatedly pressured by the international community to make concessions and allow the Islamist to take power in one way or another. They never did. In fact they increased there represion with the creations of death squads and horrible atrocities (on both sides) The insurgency was eventually defeated (though they are still active to this day but in a much limited capacity).

The point I wish to convey with the above examples is that when it comes to over-throwing a militarized regime whose sole purpose is to insure its remaining in power, the odds are in the favor of the rulers and not the revolutionaries. More importantly the timelines involved are in the multiple years! In the Algerian example the war still continues 22 years later.

Yes, Assad is a ruthless leader who deserves to be held to account for his actions at the World Court in The Hague. However to somehow assume that his downfall will come quickly or without years and years of bloodshed is being naive. A better solution would be for those on both sides would be to begin right now to try and look for some kind of possible negotiated settlement. Otherwsie the Syria of tomorrow will be far worse than the horrors that it is undergoing today.

just because turkey isn’t sending in the cavalry doesn’t mean it isn’t being useful. hopefully, they’re providing covert help.

have you seen all the armored personnel carriers rebels have been blowing up of late? they’re getting better and better. general akil hashem said if the international community is unwilling to intervene, once the rebels are properly equipped, they’ll be able to take out the regime.

for all the claims of ksa and qatar help, why are the rebels still lacking anti tank, anti aircraft weaponry?

This is not about Turkey or Erdogan. The questions are
1. Did the regime in a pre determined and calculated action deliberately attack the Turkish plane?

2. Or is this a blunder on the part of the regime?

The toning down of the incident by Syria and the participation in search and rescue makes me believe that this is a blunder on the part of the regime.

The father coughed up Ocalan in record time when the Turkish army massed along the border.

As for Bronco Zoo SNK and JAD and not to mention cut and past irrelevant posts ANN I will say that the narrative of
1. These are armed terrorists gangs from Mars is not credible any longer
2. This is a world wide conspiracy against the brave Syria is hogwash
3. The massacres and abuses are only the work of the FSA is retarded
4. The reforms are actually making progress is pure delusion
5. The Assadist army is winning is fiction.

There are whole sections of the country that are no go for the regime. The reports from Alquds speak of 7 pilots defecting only the last one was made public as Jordan did not want to be put in the hot seat and kept mum on the previous ones.
Hoshyar Zibbarri is talking today about an orderly transition to a democratic national unity regime and that the current situation is affecting the security of the whole region.

Actually she did, and that is why, until recently, she was hand’s down the most popular western actress in Syria. When I asked my Arabic teacher why, he recounted some stories of her visiting the refugees and visiting with Assad as well.

What was wrong with the previous government? It seems that not killing enough was not the reason for the change. The defense, interior, and foreign ministers kept their jobs. It must be the tourism, education, agriculture and justice ministers who goofed off…what about the art minister? Did we produce enough art this past period?

In my “naive” and “simple” opinion only people not enslaved to certain dogma, political agenda, sectarian/ religious affiliation or greed can blind their human conscience and play a conciliatory role..it is just impossible for a normal human being not to be appalled by all the torture, subjugation and killing.

Why on earth Erdogan or someone else continue to befriend Bashar after all this savagery? It is not humanly possible unless you have one of the above reason.

The Iraqi example. I’m not an expert and will be happy to be corrected.

1. Did the Shia majority in Iraq have the same financial and business clout that the Syria majority Sunnis enjoy? The Sunni business community are already abandoning the regime.

2. Due to media coverage the Syrian regime doesn’t enjoy as free a hand to crush the revolt as Saddam* did (*apart from not using planes/helicopters due to No Fly Zone).

3. Iraq had oil wealth. Regional countries were said to be circumventing sanctions . Syria is in economic trouble. Major economic partner Turkey and wealthy GCC countires have distanced themselves economically from the regime.

The Syrian Alawite and Iraqi Arab Sunni minorities were probably a similar percentage of the total population (Iraqi slightly bigger).

4. In Iraq’s case the regional countries (apart from Iran) were probably not interested in toppling Saddam and seeing the Shia majority grab power. They were happy to contain Saddam.

5. The Iraqi regime was still regarded by people of the region and beyond as a muslim regime and a Sunni one (I was against him). No offence to anyone but many people don’t even regard the Alawites as real muslims. These factors affect the chances of the regimes surviving for longer.

This report examines the increasing effectiveness of Syria’s armed opposition, explains how responsible provincial-level military structures have emerged, and considers how uncoordinated external support could compound existing fractures within the opposition.

[…]

The conflict in Syria is approaching a tipping point at which the insurgency will control more territory than the regime. Neither the perpetuation nor the removal of Assad will guarantee Syria’s future stability. In order to prevent Syrian state failure, the insurgency must mature into a professional armed force that can promote and protect a stable political opposition.

Increased external support for Syria’s insurgency has contributed to its success on the battlefield, but the resulting competition for resources has encouraged radicalization and infighting. This ad hoc application of external support has undermined the professionalization of the opposition’s ranks. carefully managing this support could reinforce responsible organizations and bolster organic structures within the Syrian opposition.

The priority for U.S. policy on Syria should be to encourage the development of opposition structures that could one day establish a monopoly on the use of force. External support must flow into Syria in a way that reinforces the growth of legitimate and stable structures within the Syrian opposition movement. this will mitigate the regional threats of Syrian state failure and prolonged civil war.

Excerpt: “Meanwhile, a national reconciliation portfolio was created for the first time by the regime…. Ali Haidar, a member of the Syria-based opposition tolerated by the regime, was given the post. Qadri Jamil, another Syria-based opposition figure, was appointed deputy prime minister for economic affairs and minister of domestic trade and consumer protection, a portfolio that replaces the former ministry of provision and domestic trade.”

Yes, very much part of it. But as I keep witnessing daily the determination and courage that ordinary everyday Syrians have shown, and continue to show, some of us thought it would be important to preserve and compile these photos.

So everyday we receive hundreds of photographs, we tag them, geo-tag, date, and upload them as a small testament to the will of the people.

Sadly we also receive the horrific, the destruction, and brutality that Assad thugs inflict, and we compile that as well. It is very hard and disheartening to witness those photos, but as a person I respect a lot told me: “If those were my children god forbid, I would want the world to know what happened to them” . So we do our best to put a name behind every picture, and make sure the fallen are remembered by who they were, and not some number…

I am against military intervention by USA or Nato, I am all for arming FSA,and I am sure Assad will leave without military intervention.
There are two scenarios
1-Safe area,probably multiple,less people are supporting this idea.
2-Sudden action,this will cause the least death,and more people are supporting this idea.
Preparations are already made for the second scenario.

Thank you for your commitment, energy and dedication, for your class, and for all your effort explaining the obvious… A task that proved itself to be a daunting one.

I am hoping that the project you are involved with also document the face of those shameless perpetrators when available so they can be haunted ..one after the other…and tried for their crimes. I personally do not believe future reconciliation is possible without justice being served first.

It is always interesting to imagine what will happen in a decade or two.

“The priority for U.S. policy on Syria should be to encourage the development of opposition structures that could one day establish a monopoly on the use of force. External support must flow into Syria in a way that reinforces the growth of legitimate and stable structures within the Syrian opposition movement.”

Iraq “wants a role in what is going to go in Syria, no country can ignore or bypass Iraq in this regard”… This dude is annoying… Like the revolution could care less.

More than 130 killed in Syria as regime forms new government
By the CNN Wire Staff
updated 6:05 PM EDT, Sat June 23, 2012

P(CNN) — Another wave of deaths engulfed Syria on Saturday, and top security officials kept their jobs after the regime formed a new government.
At least 131 people died Saturday, including 31 in the turbulent city of Deir Ezzor, the opposition Local Coordination Committees of Syria said.
The largest city in the country’s eastern region, Deir Ezzor is “in dire need of help” because it is “under continuous indiscriminate shelling targeting residential homes since yesterday,” the LCC said Saturday.
…
Iraqi Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari, whose country neighbors Syria, said his government’s “main concern is the spillover of the crisis” into the region.
“If this conflict were to turn in an all-out sectarian or civil war Iraq will be affected, Lebanon will be affected, Jordan will not be immune, Turkey could be,” he said.
“We don’t want to see chaos reign in the region, in the neighborhood and that’s why Iraq should have a say, a role in what is going to go in Syria, no country can ignore or bypass Iraq in this regard.”

A national reconciliation portfolio has been created by the regime, which has been suppressing an uprising for the past 15 months and which labels protesters and armed rebels alike as “terrorists.”

Ali Haidar, a member of the Syria-based opposition tolerated by the regime, was given the reconciliation post.

Qadri Jamil, another Syria-based opposition figure, was appointed deputy premier for economic affairs and minister of domestic trade and consumer protection.

Neither Jamil nor Haidar are members of the Syrian National Council (SNC), the main opposition coalition abroad whose primary demand is the departure of the Assad regime.

They are co-presidents of the Popular Front for Change and Liberation, set up in July 2011, that supports peaceful dissent but does not explicitly call for the fall of the regime and rejects foreign intervention.
…

A Woman in the Crossfire by Samar Yazbek – review
One woman’s account of Syria’s tyrannical regime
Friday 22 June 2012 17.55 EDT
….
She was arrested, blindfolded, pushed into an office; then her blindfold was removed, and a senior police officer hit her hard in the face, and jeered at her for falling down and being unable to get to her feet again. “Well, well, what a hero, you went down with just one slap,” he said. “Isn’t it awful when such an angelic face gets hit?” Then they showed her what she was risking: the filthy cells where tortured young men lay in their own blood and excrement, waiting for the next beating, because they had been on a demonstration.
….
among the mountain of hate mail she received was one that began: “Dear unveiled infidel, the Syrian revolution doesn’t want an Alawite apostate like you in its ranks.” She knew the cynical use the regime makes of Israel and the Palestinians; one of her interviewees told her how the Palestinian prisoners got the worst beatings, and how he was told the beating would stop if he would say that he was holding up a picture of Ariel Sharon during the demonstration.
…http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/22/woman-in-crossfire-samar-yazbek-review

I really don’t deserve any gratitude, I am just doing what I believe to be right. Our people deserve the gratitude, they are the ones giving our country the ultimate sacrifice.

Forgive but never forget, and the only way to never forget and ensure this barbarity does not repeat itself is bringing to justice the perpetrators. They should be tried to the fullest letter of the law, and personally I would welcome a joint tribunal Syrian/ICC to conduct the investigations and persecutions of the criminal thugs.

The day the opposition will unite and officially accept to abide to Annan peace plan as the Syrian government did when it was announced, then I would believe that the opposition is sincere.
Until then they are the ones who refuse the dialog with the regime simply because they don’t give a damn about Annan peace plan, they only want to topple the regime and have the country plunged in the chaos that will result from their internal bickering and their greed for power

1. was ever remotely sincere about stopping the threats and violence and finding a peaceful and rational way out of the mess they have created themselves, and

2. has any hope of continuing in power with a return to “business as usual” when it has permanently lost the support, trust and cooperation of large sections of the country and most of the outside world.

It just doesn’t make sense. And there’s no evidence it ever did.

The only ones behaving sincerely and rationally in this crisis are those who are resisting, defending themselves and protecting others against the regime’s brutal and senseless attacks on people it is supposed to protect.

I get your point about more pressing issues, and understand what a draining and seemingly bottomless task it must be.

As you so sensitively understand, it can be part of the “going forward” and recovery process for the victims families and people of Syria to have them acknowledged and commemorated out there, and the crime and injustice put on record.

An ideal scenario would see the victims documented as much as possible through the crisis, rather than a couple of years delay while there is a catch-up.

I suggested publicizing the project because it may attract additional interest and support from some with technical resources and experience in this kind of exercise.

There are many, many decent people around the world who are deeply outraged and distressed about what is happening to Syrians and wish they could do something about it.

The Egyptian opposition is getting more structured
he Tagammu Party, Free Egyptians Party, and Democratic Front Party have announced that they and other parties are forming a coalition to “protect Egypt from theocratical despotism and the revival of the former regime.”

The bloc said in a statement, delivered by former MP Alaa Abdel Moneim, that the secular forces are against the combination of religion and power, and the militarization of the state.

“We reject the state of polarization and showing off power which drives the country towards division [and which] changes Tahrir Square from a place that united us against tyranny to a square that divides revolutionary forces,” the statement read.

In the statement, the groups said they respect the Egyptian judiciary and its rulings, and that they reject criticism of the judicial authority and attempts to involve the judiciary in politics. They said they would accept the outcome of the presidential elections whatever they are.

The groups also said they rejected Arab and foreign interference in Egypt’s internal affairs.

The coalition called on all the Egyptian political forces to rally and draft a constitution for a modern civil state, saying they disapproved of the law that gave military intelligence and military police personnel the right to arrest civilians.

Abdel Moneim also said that revolutionary forces had also previously rejected the Constitutional Declaration issued by the SCAF on 30 March which expanded the military council’s powers.
[…]

Left the road, a large lake, which glistens in the sun. A man fishing, children jump merrily from the shore into the water. In the distance you can see the houses of a village which is located in one plane, which acts in the warm June still lush and green. A rural idyll in which one thinks of holidays. It was here in Taldu, a suburb of the town of Hula, yet the most terrible massacres of the civil war that began 16 months in Syria instead. On 25 May have been 108 people here, including many women and children murdered.

The driver refuses to drive on. He imitated with his hands and makes a rifle: “Boom, Boom.” But the Syrian military leaves anyway by anyone. “Further than this, you do not come, we would not want to shoot that one,” said a burly man with a bald head at the base of the village.

No it aint Syria
It is noteworthy that the regime propagandists, with no exception, constantly use the word “Syria” does this and Syria does that. Well, this blurring of the lines between the illegitimate regime and country is not acceptable, nor it is tolerable. No longer they should be allowed to use the regime and Syria as synonyms. In fact, if Syria, in her collective meaning, is doing anything, she is rejecting this historic abomination called the Assad family and their mafia, and paying a dear price for even thinking for a second that they hold anything but hate and contempt to the country and its people.

It seems that OTW is starting a campaign to reclaim words from the deformation exerted by this abomination on our political language. I join this campaign and urge everyone on the people side to reject the continuing appropriation of a country, even in words, to an abominable eternal teen.

An illegitimate rapist of a country has no right to claim that his misdeeds represent the country. The Syrian people were never responsible for the thuggery of this mafia, and should never tolerate the regime propagandists attempt to implicate them in the crimes and foolishness of the eternal teen and his gang. So Syria did not down a Turkish airplane, Syria did not ferment sectarian war in Iraq, nor occupied Lebanon for decades, nor used Palestinians against each others and for an unholy interest of a select few under banners of resistance,nationalism, and struggle, it was the Assad abomination that does that, and they are responsible for every single misdeed. Syria is only responsible for not throwing them, and their supporters into the trashbin of history earlier. But she was a captive… at times drugged, at times assaulted and intimidated.

The buffoon being worshiped explicitly and implicitly on this site is exposed for the fool he is. He is not Syria, far far far from it.

Houps, moderator, I mispelled the name, here i paste the message again.

Jürgen, 175 Die Welt,
For posting such an article, you will be called a minhibak and a colaborationist very quickly. The Vatican has started to circulate an email where they openly called the nun in question in this article “a collaborationist”. As if the Vatican had ever had any interest in the unity of Eastern Christians and Muslims…

Targeting our children and our brothers in the military , the police and civil services, teachers of universities, merchants , men of religion , the street passers, and drivers, workers, and for all these you will find every excuse under the pretext of the system and under the cover of evils ! Does anybody have provided?

Al-Sheikh, an Islamist with a long black beard and gray fatigues, runs the Falcons of Damascus group from the mayor’s office in his village, which his fighters have taken over. The list is a constant reminder of al-Sheikh’s personal score with the Syrian regime: 20 of the dead are his relatives, including three brothers and his 16-year-old son, all killed fighting Syrian forces in the last year…/../…

I used google translate, i used to translate articles, but the length of this translation does brought me closer to some experts. I hope that people here get an idea of the meaning.

Sorry i think you must have slept for years. You may can call Schroeder a friend of Turkey, but Merkel and her party? They are the biggest enemies of an Integration of Turkey to the EU. I am ashamed that Serbia (sic) will join the EU eralier than Turkey. But inmidst this Westerwelle is publicly talking about visa free entry to Schengen for Turkish antionals, usually the first step for an integration process. But until now. no kind word from Merkel and others on Turkey.

Mina

Dont worry, i just post it because it was published by an german newspaper, before one or two of the most obvious pardonists of this aweful regime will post it, I´ll do it.

More and more it appeared that Russian forces in Syria are the one that downed the turkish plane, and so NATO may get involved.Turkey is very serious about taking revenge.
If it was a missle that hit the turkish plane,then it is not Syrian forces but Russian forces that downed the plane.
The best response for Turkey is that Turkey will provide FSA with anti airforce weapons to down several Assad’s planes

The Turkish press has reacted relatively cautiously to the incident. While some headlines said: “Damascus playing with Fire” and “They will pay for it”, the overall coverage was not as angry as it sometimes is in responding to attacks by Kurdish rebels in south-east Turkey.
Soli Ozel, a columnist at the Haberturk newspaper and Professor of International Relations at Istanbul’s Kadir Has University, said it was unlikely that the incident would be declared an act of war and that the Turkish government was seeking a way to avoid a further escalation of the crisis.
“If you deem it is an act of war you will go to war. That is why I do not think they will deem it an act of war. There are plenty of people who have written in media that we should retaliate and attack, but I don’t really think that this is the mood in the country.”

Syria shot down Turkish jet in international airspace, claims foreign minister
Syria shot down a Turkish fighter jet while it was flying in international airspace some 15 minutes after momentarily straying into Syria’s territory, Turkey’s foreign minister has claimed.

Ahmet Davutoglu said that there was no warning from Syria before it shot down the plane, which did not have arms and was flying on a training mission and undertaking a radar system test.
“According to our conclusions, our plane was shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria,” Mr Davutoglu told TRT television.
“The plane did not show any sign of hostility toward Syria and was shot down about 15 minutes after having momentarily violated Syrian airspace.
“The Syrians knew full well that it was a Turkish military plane and the nature of its mission.”
More…in above post.

Turkey goes to Nato over plane it says Syria downed in international airspace
Foreign minister says Ankara will take incident to Nato and dismisses Syria’s claim it did not know plane was Turkish

guardian.co.uk, Sunday 24 June 2012 05.52 EDT

Nato is to meet on Tuesday at Turkey’s request following the shooting down of one of its warplanes by Syria in what it says was international airspace.

Turkey’s foreign minister, Ahmet Davutoglu, said Ankara would formally present the incident to its Nato allies to prepare a response under article four of the organisation’s founding treaty.

The article provides for states to “consult together whenever, in the opinion of any of them, the territorial integrity, political independence or security of any of the parties is threatened”. It stops short of the explicit mention of possible armed responses cited in article five.

Turkish media reported on Sunday that the wreckage of the downed plane found in Mediterranean at 1,000-metre depth. Turkey has filed an official protest to Syria about shooting down.

Davutoglu told the state broadcaster TRT on Sunday that the plane had entered Syrian airspace but quickly left when warned by Turkey and was shot down in international airspace several minutes later.

He said the plane was clearly marked as Turkish, dismissing Syria’s earlier statement that it had not known the plane belonged to Turkey, and that it was shot down over Syrian airspace. He said it was on a training flight to test Turkey’s radar capabilities and had no “covert mission related to Syria”.

Turkey’s president, Abdullah Gül, said on Saturday that it was “routine” for jets flying at high speeds to violate other countries’ air spaces for short periods of time.
….
The Iranian foreign minister, Ali Akbar Salehi, urged Turkey and Syria late on Saturday to show restraint over the incident, his ministry said.

In a telephone conversation with Davutoglu, Salehi said he hoped the two sides would “settle the issue peacefully to maintain regional stability”, said a statement on the Iranian foreign ministry’s website.
….
“The Assad regime should not make the mistake of believing that it can act with impunity. It will be held to account for its behaviour. The UK stands ready to pursue robust action at the United Nations security council.”
…,,

There will not be a NATO intervention in Syria EVER. The Turkish administration is just trying to save face from this shameful incident Erdogan put Turkey in. Syria move was sucha bold one and I think they have the green light from Russia to attack, I think Russia is in with all its power and will not, I repeat, will not allow NATO intervention. Turkey should stick its political head in the sand, Turkey lost.

“The plane did not show any sign of hostility toward Syria and was shot down about 15 minutes after having momentarily violated Syrian airspace. “The Syrians knew full well that it was a Turkish military plane and the nature of its mission.”

Bla bla bla…bla bla bla.
Yes we downed the plane.
Bravo Syrian army
This is part of the bla bla bla after this shameful incident for Turkey
Let us see where this bla bla bla is leading you.
For one and a half year we heared a lot of bla bla bla from the opposition analysists here and it seems their bla bla bla is going no where. I am sorry to say you are still where you started 1.5 years ago, ground 0

For those with open mind and open heart to see the conflict in Syria for what it really is and not what they imagine/wish it to be.

To my mind, it explains the drivers behind American and Western involvement in Syria, and also why it is not a sectarian, political, economic or even humanitarian conflict. Instead it is only another chapter in a long and horrfic series of conflicts inflicted on others by American and its satraps.

Warning: it is 4 hours long, so it may not be practical to view it in one sitting.

There are many visitor’s on this site who continue to try and force fit the sectarian or humanitarian narrative. In the end you will be dumped by the side of the road just like all the rest of the people who thought they could make a deal with the devil.

The destruction of Syria is sufficient for the devils needs, and making it into another Lebanon would be the best outcome.

Hear hear for Syrian Hamster’s post today. I have tried to remember to write about the regime rather than write about Syria when I mention the current dictatorship currently in power.

Zoo tells us with pride of the premiere of having two opposition figures in the new government!!!!

First this Majlis is a rubber stamp that cannot legislate, or question, or control budgets, or impeach. When the so called Majlis meets it acts like the muscles of the pelvic floor and results in a bowel movement and nothing more

Second the ministers in this new government are actually told what to say, what to do, when to work, when to go home, and they have no authority except to conduct the dictates of the dictators.

This is pure window dressing.

Turkey has requested a NATO meeting. News today are that the Brits have offered to help the Turks in any action they wish to take. I am not sure of the veracity of this news in Alquds today. Erdogan, in a deliberate way, went on to meet all of the political groups including the opposition in preparing his response to the incident. He is covering his base and protecting his flanks. This is interesting to watch in comparison to the Mafia.
Makdisi says there were no ill or aggressive intentions towards Turkey trying to apologize without actually coughing up the apology.
Turkey will have its ducks in a row and will confer with NATO and if they request help and defense then more forces and more involvement will be given to Turkey and the regime in Damascus will have to take this into account. This is now in the hands of Turkey which has the initiative in toning the rhetoric. If the pilots are dead then this is really bad for the regime. They are going to have to kiss ass and beg and apologize.

SS you are delusional to think that Putin is going to confront NATO when he is desperately trying to get investments into his country and is craving to be treated as an equal when Russia is now a third tier country.

….
Turkey’s Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said on Turkey’s television on Sunday that an investigation by Ankara into the incident concluded that its plane was “shot down in international airspace, 13 nautical miles from Syria”.

Davutoglu said the plane was shot down shortly after it had “momentarily violated Syrian airspace” but added that the unarmed plane, on a mission to test Turkey’s radar defences, had posed no threat to Syria at any time.

40 military officers including a first-Lieutenant have defected with their weapons while fierce fighting erupted in Deir al-Zor airport as the FSA fighters were trying to control over it,” the defected officer said adding that they have confirmed information that numbers of the government troops who fled to desert are expected to be doubled.

(Reuters) – A ship carrying Russian helicopters to Syria, which turned back after its insurance was cut, was expected to sail back to Syria accompanied by at least one other vessel, Interfax reported on Sunday, citing a military source.

U.N. envoy Kofi Annan said Friday that Iran should be involved in efforts to end the escalating violence that has claimed thousands of lives and forced hundreds of thousands from their homes.

Annan, the joint U.N.-Arab League envoy, told reporters that he is working to convene a so-called `contact group’ meeting on Syria in Geneva on June 30. The United States has vehemently opposed the involvement of Iran demanded by Russia. Annan said the composition of the meeting is one of the sticking points that may not be resolved until next week.

“I have made it quite clear that I believe Iran should be part of the solution,’’ the former U.N. secretary-general told reporters in Geneva, flanked by Maj. Gen. Robert Mood, the head of the struggling U.N. observer mission in Syria.

Annan said it was “time for countries of influence to raise the level of pressure on the parties on the ground.’’ However, he had no specific proposals for changing his six-point peace plan, which he said Syria had not yet implemented but still might support in the future.

“The longer we wait, the darker Syria’s future becomes,’’ Annan said.

Mood praised the work of his 300 U.N. monitors, whose mandate ends next month. He conceded, however, that they are now largely confined to bureaucratic tasks and calling Syrians by phone because of the insecurity and dangers on the ground.

“They are keen to resume their work. Their commitment to the Syrian people has not faltered,’’ he emphasized. “Whether more observers or arming observers would be relevant to the situation on the ground, I’m far from convinced that that would help the situation on the ground.’’

I think Annan should find himself another Rawanda to improve his past records in preventing genocide. Is his ego preventing him from calling an obituary to his plan or was he instructed by the West to keep the plan on life support as there is no western appetite for anything else?

Is anyone from the opposition or the regime side still think that Annan plan might still work?
—-
I agree that Turkey calling the NATO pn Tuesday is just an act of pretense being angry… Once a paper tiger, always a paper tiger.

“It’s like we are in a war,” Abdel Rahman said. “Sometimes when two countries are at war, not even 20 people are killed a day. But now in Syria it has become normal to have 100 killed each day.”

While the Syrian regime on Sunday fended off accusations it shot down a Turkish jet in international airspace, one of its own helicopters was taken out by rebels near the Jordanian border, according to the watchdog.

In a further blow to the army, rebels captured 11 soldiers during an attack on their base in the regime stronghold of Al-Nabak in Damascus province.

“The morale of the military is very low,” Abdel Rahman said, adding the army recently buried 113 soldiers in one region alone.

“Is anyone from the opposition or the regime side still think that Annan plan might still work?”

The opposition never accepted the plan because it keeps Bashar al Assad in power during the dialog. Their allies told them they also want Assad out and offer money but no boots and tried all they could to sabotage Annan’s plan.

The Syrian government consults withe Russia, China and its allies and generally follow their advices.

Forgetting the verbal declarations by the regime or the opposition and Judging the events that have transpired since the plan was announced, do you still think it is viable? I don’t. I think we will continue to see same old same old until after the election in the US..meanwhile it is a war between the FSA and the Assadisn army.., while the UN observers eating Syrian food and talking on the phone.

Thanks for that article by AP journalists who have been on the ground investigating the rebels. It’s got a misleading headline, and it’s in fact sympathetic to them.

Here are some punchlines:

“AP journalists saw no evidence of foreign fighters.”

” When asked what they are fighting for, most said they are fed up with corruption, harassment by security services and a system that gives preference to members of the ruling Baath party and the Alawite sect, to which Assad belongs. The word they used most often was dignity.”

“There was little evidence of rebel attacks on civilians, but they were often merciless with regime troops. For most, the fight to topple Assad has become personal after they have been chased from their cities, their friends and relatives killed. Many frequently flip through “martyr” photos on their cellphones for inspiration.”

“The best (weapons) come from corrupt officers in the Syrian army itself.“There are those who worry that the regime is going to fall, so they want to fill their pockets first,” Dahnin said.”

Well, whoever decided in Damascus to shot down this Turkish F4 might regret giving the NATO the excuse to declare this an hostile act against NATO. Well done, this will shorten the days this regime have the control.

Stick to the Truth,

I have learned in 15 months of confrontation with regime supporters to take personal attacks as they are, an distraction from the subject.

I don’t know if the plan will work or not. Too early to say.
What is clear is that the “friends of Syria” are much less anxious to topple the regime than they were previously. They realize that such a big change without a reliable alternative will ultimately turn against their allies in the region: namely Israel and Jordan and Turkey.
The Syrian government has proven it can stay united and resist for a long time to come to western pressures, while the opposition is more fragmented by the day and in greater disarray, resorting to uncontrollable guerilla warfare.
Besides Qatar and KSA who are still trying to recover from the humiliation they have endured and are financing rebels and terrorists, most countries are less adamant in a regime change.

The recent recrudescence of killings is a preparation to the meeting that the opposition is supposed to have in Cairo end June ( unless they cancel again). There, we may have a better picture of who is leading the opposition: The hardliners who want to topple the regime at any cost or the softliners who want to save the country from more chaos and are ready to negotiate a transition.

[Al-Gabali] Any new revolution will be a revolution carried out by the Muslim Brotherhood, not the Egyptian people, and this would be to grab power and the state. This would not be an Egyptian popular revolution, which remains the 25 January revolution, which was seeking a modern, democratic state based on a constitution and laws, for the sake of freedom, human dignity and social justice. As for the Brotherhood, they want to carry out a counter-revolution against this revolution, in order to implement the dream of [Muslim Brotherhood founder] Hassan al-Banna.

171. IRRITATED said:The day the opposition will unite and officially accept to abide to Annan peace plan as the Syrian government did when it was announced, then I would believe that the opposition is sincere.
Until then they are the ones who refuse the dialog with the regime simply because they don’t give a damn about Annan peace plan, they only want to topple the regime and have the country plunged in the chaos that will result from their internal bickering and their greed for power 11:47 pm

any construct that attempts to keep this regime in power is inherently corrupt.

i think you yourself earlier noted that western powers were going out of their way to cut the regime slack.

After trying hard, the Western countries seem to slowly change their mind as they keep repeating that the only plan is the ‘corrupt’ Annan’s 6 points peace plan and this plan, as it is now, does not call for a regime change.
Annan just said that this plan will not be changed.

Russian President Vladimir Putin on June 25 sent to the Middle East tour, in which the bilateral meetings with the leaders of Israel, the head of the Palestinian National Authority Mahmoud Abbas and Jordan’s King Abdullah II to discuss the development of bilateral relations and international issues, including the Palestinian-Israeli settlement, the situation in Syria and Iran’s nuclear program.

The Russian leader will begin a two-day visit to the Middle East to visit Israel, June 26, he will go to Palestine and on the same day after completion of the work program in Bethlehem, will travel to Jordan.

“What is clear is that the “friends of Syria” are much less anxious to topple the regime than they were previously.”

I wonder where are you drawing this conclusion from? Hague just reiterated today his anxiousness to see a regime change: “Foreign Secretary William Hague today condemned Syria for shooting down of a Turkish fighter jet. Mr Hague said the “outrageous” act underlined the need for Bashar Assad’s regime to go.” I believe the Victoria Nauland has mnt time reiterated the US’ anxiousness to see the same and same goes for the French.

irritated, claims that the annan plan is the only solution is a big lie.
the international community was given a chance to act. people were killed in the wake of un/us/nato’s negligence. now syrians are taking destiny into their own hands and will decide the future for syria. as it should be. who the hell is china (or any other country, for that matter) to trump popular will and dictate what happens to syria?

The endless repetition of these threats we’ve been hearing for the last 15 months seem to be more like a sign of desperation than the basis of “decisive” actions.
The UK cancelling the insurance of a Russian boat that will anyway reach Syria, or refusing the visa for an Syrian official for the Olympic games, stopping shipment of caviar to Syria are signs that the UK and the EU are running out of serious threats.

What are left are words… and words have become cheap in today’s Western diplomacy

I am glad that the ‘telephone book’ syndrome that Observer suffers of finds an echo with you.
You must be the only one. I guess he is grateful that you also agree with him about splitting Syria geographically according to religious sects and ethnicity.

You mean Obama lies, Germany lies, the EU lies? That’s what they said repeatedly.

Who are the SNC and the FSA? and who do they represent to claim the contrary?
Without the money of Qatar, KSA, and Turkey and the ‘logistic’ support of the USA, Israel and the EU, were do you think they’ll be?

There is no systematic persecution of Christians in North Africa and the Middle East. That was the unanimous opinion of experts who attended last Thursday at a hearing of the Committee on Human Rights and Humanitarian Aid of the German Bundestag. Benedict XVI. however, holds steadfastly to the “tragic reality of persecution” fixed.

Though they in number and representing the world’s most influential religious group complained, and in Germany with great vehemence and regularity of the clergy and church leaders in politics a persecution against Christians, which takes place in many regions of the world. Volker Kauder (CDU), stressed this belief in the past about why he said also to Christ and the world: “The Christians are the most persecuted religious group, no doubt about that. Nowhere in the world follow other Christians, Christians are always under pressure. ”

I am afraid I agree. Harsh words and no serious threat. Yet, I think it is a reflection of the West impotence in the face of the relentless Russian support of Assad as well as their lack of appetite for real aggressive measures in a non-oil producing country rather than than a genuine change in attitude in regard to a regime change.

Syrians knew all along they’re alone. All in all, I think it is good. We will do it all alone so we are not influenced by any one’s agenda. The latest slap on the face of Erdogan will not bring the NATO in, but will make him more determined to help the FSA.

I think like Tariq Ramadan has said it, the question is not are the arabs ready for democracy, its rather is the west ready for democracy in the Arab world?

Someone like Mursi who has spent years of his life in prison because of his belief and his opposition to the Mubarak regime will always have an wider appeal to the public as an other disguised Mubarak candidate. I think we should all see and watch, I am sure that the MB can not let Manna rain from tomorrow onwards.

no one says that there is no persecution at all, but an systematic persecution is moreorless a fantasy of many here in the West.

I remember well years ago i heard that there was a syrian family in Munich who sought asylum for being persecuted as christians in Syria. They fouled many, including an church community. I think we all can agree that such persecution was unknown at least to christians in Syria. Such fantasies somehow play a larger role in the perception of the area and Islam in particular.

171. IRRITATED said: The day the opposition will unite and officially accept to abide to Annan peace plan as the Syrian government did when it was announced, then I would believe that the opposition is sincere.

duh, how could i have overlooked the obvious? i had to read this op-ed first to be reminded the regime itself failed to abide by the kofi plan.

The regime leadership has been convinced that it can win militarily and has consequently done nothing to implement Kofi Annan’s peace plan. It has not withdrawn heavy weapons; most prisoners have not been released; the bombardment of residential areas has continued. At the same time, the protests have become a veritable uprising of attrition — increasingly militarized, unlikely to win militarily, but strong enough to prevail.

I think some Syrian Christians like to play victims in order to boost their moral stand in supporting the regime. They in reality are not concerned about persecution, rather by the potential loss of their privileged status in Assad’s era. A priority in government jobs or contracts in Syria goes first to Alawis then to Christians then to the others…

East-West Standoff over Syria and Iran: Explosive Diplomacy and Brinkmanship at the Brink of World War III.

The systematic Manufacturing of War, challenging Russia and China in Race for either Global Full Spectrum Dominance or Global Full Spectrum Devastation. A Comprehensive Analysis.http://nsnbc.wordpress.com/

many of the informations (if not most) are really ridiculous! it’s been a very long time that we all hear confirmations from (anonymous activists) that the regime is falling and sure about high ranked officers from presidential palace (very sexy information) are preparing to leave…that only shows the great deception and the will to attract more interest from journalists side in the hope that this would push western gouvernments to intervene:; in vain.
then! a mig 21 pilote, sent alone to shell villages of civilians etc. I don’t think that things happened in that way, it’s very very simplistic comment! this pilote had already sent his family some days ago in JOrdan, and apparently he had fleed alone and had been negociating and preparing this with foreign services just to make a moral pressure and earn some money./.. because simply, as I read a very good comment from a syrian opponent, if these pilots are real heroes, if that were really ordered to shell civilisans, their natural reaction would be that of shelling the presidential palace! not going abroad looking for refuge, money and celebrity…. of course they will give informations to the USA and Israel, they will take a lot of primes and money from Qatar and Saoudia, and finally they will become the new stars of ALjazeera and Al-Arabyia channels. I know what I say may bee very useless for you because I don’t share the enthousiastic point of view, but simply; if I would say that “I’m a high ranked activist, I can’t tell my name for my security and my family, but I know very high generals in the army, and Assad will surely collapse” you will find my comment in TIme, New Yord TImes, LE Monde, Der Spiegel and everywhere. it’s true and I believe LAvrov when he said that the syrian crisis and its solution would be the founding of the new international order, because the hysteria of the most professional media, and the chaos of information, foreign interferences, secret services implications in this affair is really without precedent!!! we’ll see the end together, but I adive those who’ll read my comment not to be so happy especially when an dissident tells them informatoin about the collapse of the regim.

juergen, i don’t think tariq ramadan himself is ready for arab democracy. in his RT interview mina pointed to, he inferred the arab spring was some western plot. struck me as xenophobic. surprising for somebody so learned. was tunisia martyr mohamed bouazizi a cia asset? true, egyptian activists had come to the u.s. to attend ngo run seminars. that doesn’t mean they’re secret agents. the u.s. and israel supported mubarak’s rule. why would the u.s. send in agents to undermine mubarak?

Stick to the Truth I have trashed several of your comments for personal attacks, this is a warning continue to attack other commentators and you will be placed under moderation. Furthermore do not over use the BOLD font, if you would like to quote another commentator use Italics.

The head of the electoral commitee in Egypt has just mentioned 3 times in his speech that some Christians in Upper Egypt have been prevented by some locals to attain the offices to cast their ballots.
I hope the Vatican will fall in its own trap. When it comes to collaboration, they do have a record.

please use Italic to quote other commentators, using bold constantly can be seen as yelling.

SC Moderator

266. Tara said:

Stuck to the Truth:

I know. Truth sometimes hurts. It hurts me often too.

I guess you know that the most rich merchants in Syria are Sunnis??

Do you know of any Alavits or Christian in Souk-Alhamidie in Damascus?

By the way, since the independence of Syria until the take over by the Baath party Syria was ruled by Sunnis!!

What did they make out of it? Coup d’état in a sequence of 6 months e.g. Adib Shishakli, Hosni Alzaim etc. -They killed the young Syrian democracy –

After the unification with Egypt. Nasser who was also Sunni nationalized th whole Syrian industry and killed it. Rich Syrians the majority of them Sunnis went to Lebanon because this Christian lead country gave the frame work to florish.

What happend? Sunnis supported by Palastinian and other Sunni countries tried to topple the system.

Stick to the Truth I have trashed several of your comments for personal attacks, this is a warning continue to attack other commentators and you will be placed under moderation. Furthermore do not over use the BOLD font, if you would like to quote another commentator use Italics.

SC Moderator”

Thank you.
There is an arabic saying for that, but luckily I forgot it 🙂

Juergen,
Until last year there was no persecution of Christians in Syria by the government or the people, but there is in Egypt saudi Arabia and most other Arab countries except Lebanon, now Syria’s Christians are being persecuted and pushed out of their homes in Homs, i have families there, the next Syria will not be the same as the one being destroyed

What you are alluding to in your last post to Tara is a rather simplistic and some what bigoted take on Syria’s history.

First of what had happened in Jabal El-Druze under Shishakli was a war against Mujib Murched who like his father (Suleiman Murched) was not all there in the head. Both of them saw themselves as a manifestation of God and got their followers to declare war on the Syrian state.

If I recall correctly his father Suleiman told his followers to use stick and stones against Syrian troops, and that those stick and stones would turn into guns and ammo. Needless to say his followers all perished while he ran away cowardly, he murdered his wife and son along the way because they were holding him up.

As for the “weak” president Quawatli, if it was not for him and his dedications in both getting Churchill and Roosevelt to side with the Syrians against French colonial interests, Syria would have needed many more years perhaps decades to gain its independence from the French Mandate colonialism.

92. MINA said: Syrian President Bashar al-Assad formed a new government on Saturday, but kept on the heads of its interior, defence and foreign ministries, state television reported.

The reappointment of Defence Minister Daoud Rajha will quash widespread rumours previously denied by the government that Rajha had been assassinated by rebels who are struggling to bring down Assad’s rule.

Landing Ship with Military Cargo Left Sevastopolhttp://rusnavy.com/news/newsofday/index.php?ELEMENT_ID=15396
Black Sea Fleet (BSF) large landing ship Nikolai Filchenkov on June 21 left Sevastopol for Novorossiysk with a cargo of military hardware, said an officer serving in BSF Amphibious Ship Division.

So when I arrived home I went to my books about Syria and looked up some facts to make sure what I wrote earlier was historically correct.

Re: Sulieman Murshed, he did not shoot his wife because she got in the way, but rather because she objected to his decision to war. He did not shoot his son.

Interesting note Murshed repented before he was hanged in Marjeh square, even pleaded to be wrapped with the Syrian flag. US envoy to Syria at the time (Gordon Mattison) remarked that : ” Vast crowds jolted and fought to get a closer look at the God who proved to be mortal after all”

“On April 22, 1955 while attending a football match in Damascus, Adnan Al-Malik was shot dead by two members of the SSNP. One of the assassins immediately committed suicide while the other was arrested and confessed to the killing, acting on direct orders from George Abd Al-Masih”

Agree.. but alone the Syrian opposition is going nowhere. The adversary is far too strong and smart.
It should do like Iran’s opposition did, postpone the revolution to a more suitable time and not call for foreign help like the pathetic Libyans.

Looking at the latest Pew poll from the Middle East, the promise of a reboot in relations after the president’s vaunted 2009 Cairo speech is history.

Three years ago this month, President Barack Obama promised a transformation in America’s relations with the Muslim world. He gave the first television interview of his presidency to the Al Arabiya news channel six days after his inauguration, and sent a Persian New Year video address to the people of Iran a few months later. The high water mark of his stated quest to rehab our reputation occurred in Cairo, in a speech titled “A New Beginning.” There, Obama apologized for past sins against the Muslim world (like colonialism) and heralded the religion’s historical “tolerance and racial equality.”

To stay on message, Obama avoided mentioning some of the more uncomfortable realities—that our most significant terrorist threat is from those using Islam as a shield, as well as the gender discrimination Muslim women face, one of the world’s most egregious and systematic abuses of human rights.

But despite these efforts, it’s now clear that his platitudes didn’t get him very far. The men and women of the region, it seems, have seen through the Obama hype. According to a recently released Pew poll on Obama’s favorability in the Muslim world, 76 percent of Egyptians would like to make him a one-termer. Majorities in Pakistan, Lebanon, and Jordan don’t want to see Obama re-elected, either. “Respondents in predominantly Muslim countries continue to have a low opinion of Obama, and the American leader’s ratings have slipped significantly since 2009 in the five Muslim countries where trends are available, including a 13 percentage-point poll drop in Egypt,” according to Pew. “Opinion is generally against Obama in most of the predominantly Muslim countries surveyed.”

“When the Syrian regular forces entered Hama, Idlib and the countryside of Aleppo province, not only did they force many residents to run for their lives, they destroyed the economic infrastructure by burning down stores and laying waste to agricultural lands.”

Many ignorant Israelis, who see only in black and white will not rejoice. But I am. I’m not afraid of the MB. If I have to choose between them and the juntas / monarchs, I go for the MB. It’s better for all, and this includes Israel.
.

DAMASCUS, June 23, 2012 (AFP) – The International Committee of the Red Cross on Saturday condemned the killing of a Syrian Arab Red Crescent volunteer, in the fourth such incident in the country’s deadly unrest.

Bashar al-Youssef, 23, was shot and fatally wounded on Friday in Deir Ezzor in eastern Syria, the two organisations said in a joint statement.

“The Syrian Arab Red Crescent and International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) strongly condemn the shooting” as “further evidence of an extremely disturbing disregard for life-saving medical services in Syria,” they said.

“This comes at a time when the ICRC and the Syrian Arab Red Crescent are virtually the only organisations able to work in areas affected by the violence in Syria,” said Alexandre Equey, deputy head of the ICRC’s delegation in the country.

This is the part of the article the poster at 286 doesn’t want you to see

“There are procedures to be followed if airspace of a country is violated by a foreign plane. Downing the intruder cannot and should not be an automatic response”

Yeah, “testing the defenses”….in broad daylight and with a single unarmed plane *facepalm* When an attack comes, there is going to be all manners of missile strikes and electronic suppression before a single NATO fighter jet even enters Syrian airspace.

Iran, which prides itself on its own Islamist credentials, paid fulsome tribute to those it called “the martyrs of the (Egyptian) revolution”, whom it said were responsible for ushering in “a splendid vision of democracy.”

“The revolutionary movement of the Egyptian people… is in its final phases of a new era of developments in the Middle East and the Islamic Awakening,” the foreign ministry said.

In Saudi Arabia, the world’s number one oil producer, the government was silent. It has had poor relations with the Muslim Brotherhood, with many of the kingdom’s officials accusing it of backing demands for internal political change.

However, analysts said Saudi Arabia would have to work with the new Egyptian president.

“I think (the Saudis) are going to be very practical about it. More and more they will discover common interests in the economy, in politics, on how to deal with Iran,” said Jamal Khashoggi, a prominent former newspaper editor with ties to the ruling family.

I like the response… Had no initial plan to converse… Your use of the “v” in Alavite is a bit strange. Are you not Syrian? ah..I just committed a sin. How could I? I’ve just asked a horrid personal questions on SC.
—-
Past Sunni presidents may have been the devil. I am not versed on Syrian presidential history prior to papa Hafiz. I don’t even know most of their names or their stories and I do not want to learn it..they are dead already and have not accomplished a lot. But again, what is your point? Killing and subjugating all Sunnis Now because past (already dead) Sunni presidents were bad? Why do we need to pay for someone else’s mistakes if any. Can we leave God, Ibn Taymieh, Jesus, Ali, and the twelvers where they currently live and build a new Syria?

I am missing on real mental exchange. Conversations that are based on the false hope of the demise of the revolution or the pseudo reforms Batta and his significant other are going to implement are conversations of the deaf And is not cutting it for me anymore. I’d rather go shopping…

i am going to say something is going to make Majed happy, I am glad that the MB candidate won the election and i would not mind it it if a MB candidate wins fair and square in Syria, the Egyptian MB proved to be more mature and caring than the Syrian ones contrary to what the Syrian MB asked for of regime change and the overturn of the Syrian government and the institutions in Syria including the Baath party the MB of Egypt asked for fair election knowing well that they will win in a fair election as would have the MB of Syria, they wasted many lives and destroyed the Syria for asking to be the only choice instead of winning by a free election.they probably can backtrack now if they show their care for the country and ask for a Russian or internationally supervised negotiation about the System that is good for Syria, You all know what i like, The American system,

Second, it seems that the story of a lack of a telephone book in Syria which is by the way until Harami Makhloof established a monopoly on the cell phone business ,is a public government entity ;is a sore point.

Third, when I propose the break up of Syria I do so for the following reasons
1. First and foremost a challenge to the idea that under the guise of stability and unity we have to accept tyranny and despotism and corruption and graft.

2. Second, I do not recognize the artificial borders created to separate us the people of the ME. We have much more in common to make us live together than to separate us. However, many are afraid of this idea of a large unified ME with the Greater Syria being one aspect, the other being an economic union, and the third being a federal structure where all are equal under the law and where citizenship trumps everything else is scary to many and implies dissolution of Jordan, and Iraq and Syria and Lebanon. Is this not what the Baath wanted and failed miserably to deliver?

3. Third I do believe that the next decades will see across the globe the redrawing of the borders created by the colonial powers in the ME and in Africa. This is a direct result of several factors one of which is the failure of the current states to provide for a solution to people’s problems, therefore bringing to the fore the reliance of people on clan/ethnicity/minority/ status to solve their problems. But this state will be temporary on the road to greater integration over time.

4. I do believe that if we are not capable to bring all of the people of the ME together to solve problems that not a single country can solve alone then we should separate and create a loose federation while strengthening the economic ties among the people.

5. The current regime in Syria and in Saddam’s Iraq and in current Iraq and in Saudi Arabia and in Bahrain and in Yemen and in Qatar and in Sudan and in Ghadafi’s Libya and in ben Ali’s Tunis and in Algeria are repressive extractive exploitative Mafia style regimes that have failed to provide stability or progress or freedom or liberation of occupied land. Those that have more money than others can weather this a little longer but the writing is on the wall. Once 80% of women become literate within two generations calls for participatory rule become the norm. Once a middle class is established it will demand independent judiciary and representative rule as it is a sine qua non for a thriving economy. Watch how Venice went from a commercial and financial power house to a tourist attraction due to the dictatorship of the ruling cliques.

So the phone book is actually very relevant to this discussion. As the regime if we are to believe Irritated and Zoo and JAD and ANN and Bronco is facing armed terrorist gangs with a world wide conspiracy from a combination of CIA/Salafi/Israeli/Imperialist/Neocon/Alien invaders and cannot provide for peace and security and cannot do it with any level of transparency it is to be UPROOTED from its tiniest roots and thrown into the trash. Whether it is a telephone book or preventing the invasion of Syria or the occupation of the Golan or repressing the revolt for freedom makes no difference. It is a failed criminal state.
And that uprooting will be done with justice being served not revenge and with a truth and reconciliation commission to bring forth all absolutely all of the abuses for the last 50 years.

Now to Turkey: they sensed that the regime is wishing to down play the shooting of the plane. Once Erdogan secured his base and protected his flanks and brought the opposition on board, he is raising the stakes. How far I do not know but he got Fredo on the defensive.

12 green thumbs for Master Putin visit to Israel and they complain about Mursi and accuse him of being the savior of Israel.

Double speak, or just hypocrisy.

Have I said how much I find outlets with words like TRUTH in their names trustworthy. I guess I did…

As for the number master, the one who gave every Israeli an arsenal of rockets making the US annual aid in one line item exceed by hundreds of times the annual revenues, where did he come up with 50+% of our taxes going on war. I thought we had no money left after aiding Israel.

But nonetheless the total share of defense budget of the USG annual revenue was approximately 19% in 2011 budget. When only direct income taxes are considered, the percentage is far higher, 700Billion/1.3 Trillion, but when the entire revenues (all taxes including employment, corporate and excise taxes and the tiny estate tax) are accounted for, the share falls to 19%.

But why am I bothering myself, accuracy was not something one should stick to when the one is sticking to the TRUTH. What matters is simply to brain-dump something and never worry about the stench of sticky truthy stuff.

292 What a contorted argument about fair and square election. It was a regime change that got the MB to power in Egypt, it was not free election under the tyrannical regime

Let the people take some distance from each other so that peacefully they will eventually come to realize that they have a lot more in common to create a federal structure across the greater ME that wil bring peace and prosperity and freedom to all. Currently each is bent on a zero sum game: I win you lose and either I am on top crushing you or you will massacre me.

Shishakly was a military dictator… It was the series of military coups that got the father of the buffoon to the palace. Souria had a few legitimate presidents, the buffoon and his father are not among them. Nor were those who led military coups before them.

Worried about the next Syria after the one being destroyed and yet refusing to recognize who is it that shouts “Al-Assad or we burn the country” ….

While I am not the biggest fan of Kuwatly’s later presidency (actually his decision to unite with Egypt was a catastrophe that led ultimately to the rise of Assad), however his earlier work and dedication for Syria’s independence should not be overlooked for his shortsighted move towards Pan-Arabasim.

This is the last paragraph from his speech when Syria gained independence on April 17th, 1946:

” O’Sons of Damascus…

I am glad to be speaking today with God’s blessing on me to express how proud I am on this day. A quarter century ago, the foreigners condemned me and my comrades to death, because we decided to stand up for the pride of our nation and fight for her independence. Today we see how in the struggle of the people, how human rights are always rightfully returned to those who deserve them. With our own hands we raised the flag the we have so cherished, and saw with our own eyes the defeat of the invaders, that we fought. We thank God for his blessing on us, and the people for believing in their identity… We promise ourselves that we will keep our independence, defend our freedom with all that we have, and do the impossible to make the voice of our nation heard in all parts of the world, to raise the reputation of our homes, and defend our nation with our blood, and God is a witness of what I am saying here today, and he is the patron of victory and justice”

This speech rings to today as loud as it did back then, for Syrians are spilling their blood and doing the impossible to gain their freedom, and to raise the flag that we so cherish!

Thanks are due to regime propagandists and Buffoon+Putin fan-block-voting club for saving the US tax payers the cost of operating satellite systems and network of agents to monitor the Russian Navy. One should simply read posts on SC and know all about the movement of the Russian Navy.

Well according to their sources at PressTV, that quoted SANA saying a Xinhua reporter came across damning evidence (which they can’t show for its sensitivity) that a CIA/Salafi/Zionist agent was paid $400,000,000,000.02 to dress up as a babushka and go steal Putin’s chickens.

Can anyone kindly confirm that Qadri Jamil and Ali Haider are fake internal ‘opposition’? I have heard of them but not enough to say with certainty that they are fake or without any credibility. Just a yes or no will do. 🙂

A Russian article claims they are ‘mainstream’ opposition figures brought into government. Just want to correct someone elsewhere.

It will be interesting to learn at some stage how much choice and control over their destinies Qadri Jamil and Ali Haider had, once they were hustled into the tiger enclosure and forced to ride it with Assad.

In Syria if you have a public face these days it’s all about staying alive.

(“Dictators ride to and fro upon tigers which they dare not dismount. And the tigers are getting hungry.” – Winston Churchill.)

Let’s cut out the BS. No legitimate press stories have claimed the Red Crescent worker was killed by the regime. There have been reports that some opposition are hostile to the Red Crescent because they see it as tainted by regime influence. Article below indicates opposition attitude…..

A Syrian foreign ministry source said Thursday the armed groups in central Homs province have undermined efforts to evacuate restive people and opened fire at a convoy grouping volunteers of Syrian Red Crescent and the International Red Cross.

The Syrian competent authorities have been trying over the past two days to enable the Red Cross and the Red Crescent to enter restive areas in Homs, said the unnamed source whose remarks were carried by state-run SANA news agency.

It said the armed groups have unveiled their criminal face by blocking the humanitarian help to reach the troubled people, noting that the Syrian government has not reneged on its promises in allowing in aid and evacuating restive people “but the armed groups have committed a crime by shooting at the joint convoy and by rejecting the evacuation of the sick and injured citizens.”

The ministry source appealed to the head of the UN and the Human Rights Commission to shoulder their responsibilities in order to press those armed groups to comply with the “humanitarian logic.”

The source reiterated the Syrian government commitment to preserve the safety of its citizens with the help of the international community.

Meanwhile, an official at the Syrian Red Crescent told Xinhua Thursday that a group of volunteers from the Syrian Red Crescent and the International Red Cross have not yet succeeded in entering restive areas of central Homs province, adding that it seems the armed opposition is divided over allowing the mission in or not.

Earlier in the day, head of the Syrian Red Crescent Abdul- Rahman al-Attar said that a group combining Syrian Red Crescent and International Red Cross was promised entry to Homs “by people on ground.”

Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu said the search for two missing pilots was still under way, in coordination with the Syrian authorities.
He denied it was a “joint” operation.
After talking to Mr Davutoglu, US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said in a statement: “We will work with Turkey and other partners to hold the Assad regime accountable.
“It is yet another reflection of the Syrian authorities’ callous disregard for international norms, human life, and peace and security.”
….http://news.sky.com/home/world-news/article/16252413

Morsi’s humble, conciliatory acceptance speech mentioned all Egyptians, from all religions and classes, as fellow citizens that he is accountable to. Bashar thinks that he is only president for those who follow the constitution and laws, both of which him and his father put in place.

الرئيس هو لكل من يقف تحت سقف الوطن والدستور والقانون

Assad is the president of the people who committed this horror –http://youtu.be/HEQeXQdU6fU – reportedly doctors who were tortured and burned because they were treating wounded protests. I didn’t say it’s a crime, because under Assad’s laws, members of the security forces can’t be charged with a crime without the authorization of the president.

The animals responsible will never be caught and tried in Assad’s Syria. After 16 months of killing, and not a single conviction for murder in Syria, and Assad worshipers still argue that everything is fine and that this government should continue and even increase the killings so we can be spared from the hellish chaos in Egypt, Tunisia and Libya.

You can see the sharp eyed guys on the coast watching a peace-mission plane 13 miles away. And the missiles firing in the background (AAA doesn’t have the range). And they are all depressed for their country.

There seems to be a balance of military power between the regime and the FSA. The armed revolution has already passed the infancy stage and is maturing quickly. The regime has finally met it’s match. The regime is not stronger nor is it smarter. I am no longer losing sleep worrying the martyrs have died in vain. I am now more than anytime in the past certain of the eventual demise of the Assad rule. The opposition needs not to unite. Diversity is the essence of democracy. The FSA should however organize and unite, and submit to a civilian leadership.
—–

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said 76 people were killed on Sunday in Syria, including 39 civilians, 27 soldiers and 10 rebels,
The Observatory reported that following an attack on an artillery battalion in Aleppo, a number of soldiers defected, taking with them a large quantity of weapons.
The official SANA news agency reported that regime troops “were engaged in combat against a terrorist group that attacked people in the Jabaliye neighbourhood of Deir Ezzor killing scores of terrorists.”
Syrian government uses the term “terrorists” to describe the rebels.
In another setback for the regime, rebels captured 11 government soldiers in the central province of Damascus, it added.
“This is one of the bloodiest weeks in the conflict,” Rami Abdel Rahman, head of the Observatory, said.
The Observatory also reported that rebels had shot down a Syrian regime helicopter near the Jordanian border.
According to Observatory figures, 94 people were killed in Syria last Monday, 62 on Tuesday, 88 on Wednesday, 168 on Thursday, 116 on Friday and 116 more on Saturday.
“It’s like we are in a war,” Abdel Rahman said. “Sometimes when two countries are at war, not even 20 people are killed a day. But now in Syria it has become normal to have 100 killed each day.”
…..http://news.yahoo.com/assad-forms-cabinet-violence-flares-syria-053449786.html

I spent some time yesterday watching long interviews with Qadri Jamil, trying to give the man a chance. His position is too close to the Assad regime and Russia to be considered opposition. He’s against corruption and for undefined democratic reforms for Syria, but that’s been the position of Hafez since his corrective movement.

Jamil says that only Russia has demonstrated over the years that it is a friend of Arabs and Muslims, and that it’s naval base and military influence in Syria shouldn’t be considered foreign interference. He rejects any opposition party that calls for foreign intervention, a loose term that includes arming the FSA as well as talking about Syria on foreign TV stations from abroad. He doesn’t just reject their political positions, he calls them traitors.

He supports government shelling of residential areas in dozens of cities and villages in Syria, to root out these traitors who are killing the ethical, non-sectarian soldiers in Assad’s army.

A leader in Syria’s communist party, he received a PhD in economics in the Soviet Union, and now as a minister in charge of an economic portfolio, he will apply all the successful lessons in command economy that helped the Soviet Union flourish and emerge into the the sole superpower we know today.

Maybe he will nationalize the billions in assets that Bashar, Rami and their cronies have stolen from us over the past decades, but he probably will just confiscate dead Syrians’ property and give it to the shabiha to sell in the Sunni markets. These markets could be the growth we need, and I am sure there are tourists from Russia, Iran and Lebanon who would love to get a piece of that loot.

Anyone who believes that this government can be reformed isn’t part of the revolution by definition. The only opposition groups that have any intellectual or popular legitimacy are for the removal of Assad, his gang and the security state. We can differ on tactics, but the objective is إسقاط النظام.

The 12-diameter pipe will be repaired and re-operate within the next few days, said SANA, adding that the pipe had been previously targeted with explosives at the same site.

In another incident in Deir al-Zour Sunday, armed groups kidnapped the city’s mufti, Abul-Qader al-Rawi, SANA reported, adding that the competent authorities are pursuing the kidnappers to rescue the sheikh.

[…]

A pro-government Facebook page said that more than 50 armed men were ambushed and killed by the government soldiers in Deir al- Zour on Sunday.

Meanwhile, Syria’s pro-government Addounia TV said the authorities killed two “terrorists” in the Damascus’ suburb of Douma overnight Sunday, adding that the tracking of armed groups is underway in the restive suburb to protect the civilians.

The MB candidate won fairly, we don’t know what they will do to gain the trust of all the people, they might be more moderate than you think, 2 billion/year from the US in aid might change the wolf to lamb.

The MB of Egypt proved that they are smarter than the ones of Syria, they asked for fair election knowing that they will win, The Syrian MB lost the chance to win by asking for power instead of asking for a fair election. I think they can back paddle and sit with the government under Russian and international sponsorship to design the System for election and constitution in Syria.

I think both figures just got their reward for being so loyal and so much “the” opposition to Assad. Its best discribed what Putin does all the time, he knows that some opposition will serve well for the reputation, but at the end its rather decoration than real opposition, given the fact that several parties were founded with unknown fundings, and in the Duma you never heard a bad word on the President from “the” opposition.

I guess Bashar has learned his lessons from Russia, if you need an opposition, build one yourself.

The weapons, including automatic rifles, rocket-propelled grenades, ammunition and some antitank weapons, are being funneled mostly across the Turkish border by way of a shadowy network of intermediaries including Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood and paid for by Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, the officials said.

since loyalist logic dictates any support provided by saudi arabia automatically dooms syria to theocratic dictatorship, does this mean that support provided for by turkey will magically turn syria democratic?

321 Norman
“Knowing that they will win”?
26 millions did not go to cast their ballots. Mursi got 13 million and something, Shafiq 12 million and something. So the first group has won. Everyone is conscious it will not be a peace of cake for them. There is a lot to do with the schools and hospitals. They may have a better authority to enforce some hard measures, but many doubts they will have enough.

274. Son of Damascus
“First of what had happened in Jabal El-Druze under Shishakli was a war against Mujib Murched ”

It was JABAL EL-Druze and NOT Jabal -Alalwiien!!!!!

It was against Sultan AL-Atrash and the Druse community. Obviously you forgot theit contribution to the independence. They raised demands but Shishakli was not prepared to fullfill them, so he crushed the uprising.

“First of what had happened in Jabal El-Druze under Shishakli was a war against Mujib Murched who like his father (Suleiman Murched) was not all there in the head. Both of them saw themselves as a manifestation of God and got their followers to declare war on the Syrian state. ”

even in the West turnout for elections range in about 50-70 %. I guess you get this kind of turnout when you dont force folks to the ballot boxes. You end up having someone win with 52% because its not a fake election, but may be you are used to 99,5% election results…

In the GDR elections were compulsory, if you forgot to come and fold ( it was called the big paperfolding ceremony, because no one dared to go to the voting booths) the election paper, the Stasi would come and remind you of your civil duty.

Davutoglu claims that the jet was in international waters when it was engaged, but he does admit that it was in syrian waters a few minutes earlier “by mistake.”

So let me get this straight, the jet left syrian waters and then was shot down. The assumption is that when you are leaving someplace it is behind you.

So, it was shot down and it some how it crashed backwards into Syrian territory?!?!? no no, wait, it was shot down and the pilot thought it was a good idea to head towards the source of fire to save himself???!?!?!? no, no, wait, the turks invented a new plane which flies backward…. give me a break.

The question should rather be why the Syrian aircontrol has shot down this jet. First of all its against international standards to shot instead of sending strong messages to the pilot to leave the souvereign territories. Such violations of airspaces occur everyday, and syrian air control must have been aware which kind and which nationality is violating their airspace. In this region its impossible not to know who is using whichkind of aircraft, which kind of transponder signal ect. Eventually in Damascus someone weighted well the consequences and provoked an NATO answer to this “shotdown” of an allied memberplane. If this was not considered,then i would worry about the quality of the command in the Syrian army.

The regime considers anyone who gives so much as a bottle of water to its victims as “aiding and abetting terrorism”. Where are the government set up refugee camps? Aid to the displaced? You people do know that allowing the shabiha to loot homes doesn’t count as “aid”? Therefore, in the regime’s eyes, even the Red Cross and Red Crescent are “legitimate” targets. This sort of barbarity could only have come from a certain, specific and sick minded kind of people.

Just like how pro-Nazi sympathizers spent the rest of their lives trying to apologize and excuse their disgraceful stance, so too will the pro-barbarity, sectarian propagandists both inside and outside Syria forever be spending the rest of their days whining how they were “duped” and didn’t know all the facts, and they actually thought that Bashar and Asma were so “liberal”. Just take a look at Baba Amr…how is it that after four months the FSA could have managed to come back and attack the dictatorship’s stooges there? Can Bashar even take a piss without Putin being there to hold it for him?

Hafiz’s record; lost three wars, allowed Syria to become the most economically and socially backwards country in the region, with one of the lowest standards of living, committed mass murder against his own people, and left the country one of the most politically isolated, with only the theocracy in Iran and Hizbollah as its friends (oh right, also North Korea).

If my own dad had such a poor record in politics, I’d be too ashamed to carry his name, let alone try to emulate him. It says alot about the weak minded son that one of history’s most failed dictators is the only role model said son could find to emulate.

I agree with your vision of federalization of the ME, or redrawing the borders, that were put there by imperialist powers (Sykes–Picot).

In your vision, do you see a place for Israel? Because the Jews of the ME fit into your equation of a “zero sum game”. I did ask you this before, but you refrained from answering. Is it because you BDS me?
.

The bottom-line, the west is not interested in intervention, not with the Euro imploding and Obama in an election year, at least not in the immediate future…

So until things change, the FSA will need to keep up the campaign of sabotage and assassinations to keep the conflict alive until at least February 2013, when Obama or a new president will be able to look at it again.

The next meeting on Syria will be on June 30th in Geneva, expect a spectacular act of terror in the next few days and expect the MSM to immediately blame it on the Syrian government.

So, how’s the progress on tracking down the “terrorists” of Houla coming along? Dear me, not a single one captured or killed? I’d have thought that the pro-regimists would have been baying for blood for the capture of the supposedly Qatari and Saudi and Turkish and CIA and Israeli and Martian funded and armed terrorists. But the weak and incapable defense minister who was on the job when the massacre happened, apparently still gets to retain his post. The typical hallmarks of a dictatorship, never dump a guy even when he’s proven his incompetence beyond all doubts.

Yeah, because only to a pro-regimist does it make sense for the opposition to blow up Midan. That’s as absurd as Hamas sending one of its terrorists to blow up a cafe in an Arab neighborhood of Haifa.

The regime supposedly captured a bomb truck in Aleppo. How has it not then been able to crack open this supposed Al-Qaeda network? A fully functional bomb truck should have provided enough clues to shut down every Jihadist cell from here to Baghdad. I ask again, does Bashar require Putin’s help even when taking a piss?

your quoting me in your post, but your comment has nothing to do with what I said???

in any case, what your claiming is that the FSA is incapable of blowing up/killing any Syrian or is it certain Syrians?

– talk about absurd 🙂

please enlighten us – who are the FSA allowed to kill and where are they allowed to kill them? is there a list or protocol somewhere?

Your second point about the captured truck bomb, is equally laughable. Watch CSI much? the US launched a global war on terror and many of the people who openly admit to specific attacks could not be captured and tried (the best the CIA can do is use drones to kill people with beards) they must have killed Bin Laden maybe 6 times and Al-Libi 5 times already.

I wonder who the first 4 or 5 guys were? (the ones that were mistakes)…oops

‘Turkey jet scandal just what NATO wants to push agenda’http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd11oP2BsWE
NATO leaders are to hammer out a response to Syria’s shooting down of a Turkish military plane.
Washington has described the act as brazen and unacceptable, while Britain says the Assad regime will be held accountable.
Ankara insists the jet was downed in international airspace without warning, while Damascus maintains it was flying over Syrian territory.
Turkey has denied claims the plane was on a spying mission, saying it was on a training flight.
Syria responded that its actions were defensive and not aggressive.
Wreckage has already been located in the Mediterranean Sea, with the search for two missing pilots ongoing.
John Rees from the Stop the War Coalition, says the incident was most likely an error, that could yet turn into an international conflict.

How long will Mursi be free to decide such matters?
To be fair, he gave this interview on Saturday, so prior of being elected as president.

Mursi: Iran, Egypt Relations Create Strategic Balance in Region

TEHRAN (FNA)- Egypt’s newly-elected President Mohammed Mursi underlined his enthusiasm for the further expansion of ties with Iran, and said relations between Tehran and Cairo will create a strategic balance in the region.

Jihad Maqdesy is very professional and he just revealed the lies of the exterior minister of Turkey. I believe Davutoglu had too much morning Kabab since his flight was downed by our brave army. The Erdogan administration is going nuts. They want to do something that saves face infront of their nation and the World. They are threatening us with mama NATO.

I think the time for bluffs are over, no one will buy yet an other speech of the cdoctor nor sweettalking from Muallem. They knew exactly what they did by bringing this plane down. As I wrote earlier, the syrian air control knows the types of aircrafts used by their neighboring countries, and violations of air space is common, only countries which have a declared war between each other may consider such an violation as an attack and react the way the regime did.

One could just raise the question why would the regime give such an good reason to NATO to intervene.

10.55am: Syria: Thirty-three more members of the Syrian military have defected to Turkey with their families, AP reports Turkey’s state-run news agency.

The Anadolu Agency said today that the group, which includes a general and two colonels, crossed into Turkey overnight. They were being hosted at a refugee camp near the border. There was no further information on the group.
….

Jürgen
What kind of analysis is that? You know very well that in Europe too, a good number of abstentionists do so in order to protest against the current political system and its lack of representativity, or to protest against the “star-system” of politicians, their corruption at time, etc. So why denying that just as the 1st tour in Egypt has shown, the MB represent only 25-30 percent of the voters?

I used google translate and I came away with a clear understanding that the author is clearing point the finger at the FSA being responsible for Alhoula massacre:

The final paragraph is ominous and roughly translates to (and I paraphrase):Jibril says, “Of course many people in Hula know what really happened,” But everyone is fearing for their lives. “any people who open their mouths, can only tell the version of the rebels. Anything else is certain death.”

I am guessing that the MSM know that the Syrian version of events is closest to the truth and so we have heard very little about it since….

Answer: the Assads have. The global community views sovereignty not as a right, but a responsibility. This responsibility is abused when the state fails to protect its population from mass atrocities (usually by inflicting them).

No, such vital matters as international relations and military airspace are NEVER black and white. In the sixty years of the cold war, there were NUMEROUS airspace violations much more significant than a jet fleetingly crossing some sort of sea boundary, and yet both sides had the discipline and self restraint not to go ape.

The procedures for dealing with airspace violations in peace time (or even during a ceasefire, or even when you are at war and don’t know where or what that object is or is coming from) are well known; you make radio contact, you send up your own jets, and if the object continues its course towards what seems like a hostile mission, only then consider bringing it down. Unless of course you’re some clueless general from Qurdaha who has been snorting meti all day and whose only training has been “shoot first and then whine it was all a conthpirathy later”.

The regime admitted it didn’t know what the aircraft was before shooting it down, which every military analyst has said is a shocking admission of their own recklessness. For all they knew it could have been a civilian plane in trouble. In which case the pro-regimists here would have claimed it was full of passengers paid to go on a martydom mission.

The people of Houlla who ran away after the massacre are not running into the arms of the army, as you’d expect if the regime’s account of events was even remotely credible. They are still seeking refuge with the FSA. Look at how the regime is treating Houla

“The government has cut off the municipal water supply and those who remain in the city rely on wells for water. Most food and other goods that arrive here make their way across bumpy back roads largely under the protection of the Free Syrian Army, the rebel group that controls much of the countryside.”

Cutting off water…to a town that supposedly suffered the horrors of a terrorist massacre. Asma Assad should be down there personally handing out aid if that was the case. But the people of Houla had the impertinence to tell the world of the massacre that the shabiha committed, and so they must be punished with every means at the regime’s disposal. Disgusting. The pro-regimists will never live down these days no matter how much they plead they were dupped afterwards.

“interview with new snc chief:
3. He says there could be dialogue with regime elements “with no blood on their hands,” but only concerning “the timing and process of the fall of the regime.””

He said it in such a low voice that no a single media repeated.
Either it is false, or it does not suit the media agenda to show the SNC ready for a dialog.
Let see if he dares repeat that and stay alive.

“We will look to Egypt to play a big, leading role, a historic role, regarding the Palestinian cause, in helping the Palestinian nation get freedom, return home, and totally end the Gaza siege,” Ismail Haniyeh, head of the Hamas government, told Reuters Television.’

After all these defections, the question remains: Where is Adnan Bakkour, the pioneer in ‘officials’ defections on Youtube?
Why is his family so silent? What happened to his promises to unveil the crimes of the regime?

The Turkish model of 1960…: a powerless president
Egypt’s Military Adopts Turkish Model to Retain Power Over Morsi

By: Steven A. Cook posted on Sunday, Jun 24, 2012

In the June 17 decree, the military hedged against a Morsi victory by approximating the tutelary role the Turkish military enjoyed until recently. As a result, President Morsi does not control the budget; has no foreign policy, defense, or national security function; and has been stripped of the president’s duty as commander-in-chief of the armed forces, meaning he has no control over military personnel. In addition, having dissolved parliament in a move that has no legal basis, the SCAF now also functions as Egypt’s legislature. Finally, the military will be able to veto articles of a new constitution.

First we have to respect people and their experiences and the people especially the ones with the high level of organization such as the North Korean people, or the South! Second, democratic states must be applied and its democracy actually paid peaceful political path to the Syrian people to express his opinion and that does not represent him at the International Council!

(Subverting Democracy
“From 1945 to 2003, the United States attempted to overthrow more than 40 foreign governments, and to crush more than 30 populist-nationalist movements fighting against intolerable regimes. In the process, the US bombed some 25 countries, caused the end of life for several million people, and condemned many millions more to a life of agony and despair.”
William Blum)

Alfred Hackensberger who wrote this article works for “Die Welt”, therefore is part of the Axel Springer network of publishers. ( they also publish the biggest tabloid newspaper in Germany : Bild)

He was in the area ( not like Hermann, who wrote his article from Damascus) , even though he was not allowed to enter Houla itself.

This sentence you asked could be translated into:

“Of course a lot of people from Hula know what really has happend” , Dschibril says. But all fear for their lives. “Who ever is talking there, can only repeat the version of the rebels.Anything else would be a certain death.”

In 1976, the Syrian regime intervened militarily in Lebanon on the side of the Phalanges and Israel. The record is available (from Henry Kissinger’s memoirs to the memoirs of Israel leaders): Syria and Israel reached an understanding in Lebanon.

What we see in Egypt looks like the new path being implemented for Syria by Turkey, the USA and the EU: A military coup that will allow the FSA to take over the country, then like in Egypt, organize ‘free election’ for a powerless president.
This is maybe why the FSA is being increasingly reenforced, defections encouraged and hailed, while “smoke screen” actions are done to ‘unite’ the chaotic political opposition.

To disrupt that plan, the Syrian government is increasing its military attacks, trying to draw Turkey in a war and possibly sending ‘false’ defectors to spy and undermine the FSA.
I will not be surprised to see more provocations from Syria on Turkey soon.
A new phase has started.

11.12am: Egypt: Working on the principle that it’s never too early to start holding a new president to account and comparing his deeds to his promises, an Egyptian activist group has launched The Morsimeter (in Arabic). The Global Voices website explains:

The application is created by Zabatak, (@Zabatak), a non-profit initiative which aims at making Egypt become bribery free, corruption-free and safe. And on MorsiMeter’s Facebook page, they describe the application as follows:

“The [Morsimeter] is an initiative to document and monitor the performance of the new Egyptian president, Mohammed Morsi, and we will monitor what has been achieved from what he had promised in his programme during his first 100 days in power.”

Turkey scrambling to defend itself of violating Syria’s airspace. It compares Syria to Greece and Israel.
Violations of air space are ‘natural’? Doesn’t depend on who is the violator and what are his real intentions? We know what Turkey’s intentions are about Syria: not very friendly.

A majority of the violations were done by Greek aircraft, with Italian and Israeli aircraft also known to have violated Turkish air space this year. “Air space violations are incidents that happen almost every day, and are resolved in a matter of minutes within international law,” the General Staff said in a statement.

“It now remains to be said that, although this happy night brings darkness to the spirit, it does so only to give it light in everything; and that, although it humbles it and makes it miserable, it does so only to exalt it and to raise it up; and, although it impoverishes it and empties it of all natural affection and attachment, it does so only that it may enable it to stretch forward, divinely, and thus to have fruition and experience of all things, both above and below, yet to preserve its unrestricted liberty of spirit in them all.” – Saint John of the Cross, “Dark Night of the Soul.” Book Two, Chapter Nine.

“But does not the expression of these desires and expectations of a purging of the spirit, a catharsis which would be like a conversion, a rebirth, a regeneration, involve us in a contradiction with something we established in the beginning of this book? There we said that earlier periods, in their longing for a better society, had fixed their hopes on a reversal, an insight, a regaining of sense and virtue, as a conscious and early change for the better. Our time, however, knows that great spiritual and social changes are realised only through a process of gradual development, at the best temporarily accelerated by some extraordinary sudden impetus. And yet we are now demanding and hoping for a revulsion, in a way even for a return../../..

Indeed he describes him as “the most pro-Israeli Russian President since the end of Soviet Union”.

“He wants Russia to be a player in the region. Given all the turmoil at the moment, Israel looks like the only place that it makes sense for Mr Putin to visit,” says Mr Trenin.

“The Palestinian leg should also enhance Russia’s prestige – Russia still has hopes of one day staging a Middle East Peace conference,” he adds.

“It is member of the Middle East diplomatic steering group the Quartet, and it cares about how it is perceived.
…
In this new reality, Zvi Magen believes, part of Russia’s interest is in changing its Middle East policy to seek out new partners.

10.48am: Egypt: Reflecting on the election result in Egypt, a guest writer for the Arabist blog pays tribute to the Muslim Brotherhood’s role in preventing ballot-rigging:

The most striking thing about these elections, and probably one of its most important lasting effects, is the accuracy of the independent tallies conducted by the Muslim Brotherhood and its political faction the Freedom and Justice Party. There is no other organised political force in Egypt with the resources to accurately conduct polling at all of Egypt’s 16,000 polling stations, and the MB has not squandered its opportunity to occupy this role …

Last week’s announcement of victory at Morsi’s campaign headquarters put massive pressure on senior officials to not consider tampering with election results and cause a Shafik presidency …

It is true that in all likelihood, the Supreme Council of the Armed Forces is satisfied with a Morsi executive that is stripped of its power, but its obvious preference for Ahmed Shafiq was made much more difficult the moment that the MB’s independent exit polls announced this morning’s results.

It may seem odd to state in a political climate where many revolutionaries don’t trust the MB and its FJP candidates, but the Muslim Brotherhood electoral results are trustworthy. It may, in fact, be the most trustworthy part of the entire organisation and its most positive contribution to the ongoing Egyptian revolution. The Muslim Brotherhood now officially has a reputation of offering a source of accurate electoral information that minimises the chance of voter fraud.
…..

What about Syria asking for ‘compensations’ for all the destruction and killings perpetrated on its territory by armed men sheltered and armed in Turkey?
Are there no international law sanctioning that?

Europe is grappling with the potential fallout after Syria shot down a Turkish plane.

The EU wants Turkey “to be restrained in its response”to the incident,the EU’s foreign policy head said; NATO meetings are set for tomorrow.> Europe won’t back military intervention!!!!!
says the Dutch foreign minister.
Back in Syria,crisis in Homs is growing,the opposition Fake Syrian Army citing a regime plan “to commit the greatest massacre in history????,” according to al-Jazeera.
The terror group says the regime is sending some 100 tanks to Homs, and it’s time for the “international community” to take action.
Action?no action on the horizon,here is why>

European stocks and the euro all fell this morning, as investors remain skeptical that this week’s EU summit is going to accomplish much of anything,”We expect the pressure on both Europe and its financial system to resume, encouraging further depreciation of the euro,” said one analyst.
the upshot:syrians are fd.
to George Sabra:change ur name to omar sabra,MB,S would appoint you as Snc head bozo!!

The Western media (supported by Qatar money) is trying to paint a ‘positive’ image of the Moslem Brotherhood: Boasting the ‘accuracy’ of the election process.
I guess they will also emphasize very soon the social services that the MB offer to the poor population of Egypt.
Will Morsi be painted soon as Egypt’s father Teresa?

Did the defected Syrian airforce pilot in Jordan gave to Turkey some key or codes that allowed the Turkish plane to enter Syria’s airspace disguised into a Syrian airplane before Syria change these codes ?
Did the Syrian air defense therefore got the order to shoot any plane on Syrian’s territory.
The story is much more fishy than the Turks want it to appear.

No, I don’t think they were fraudulent. The poor Egyptians have been neglected for decades and the religious people have always been the closest to the poor in any country and religion. Therefore I am not surprised that they all voted for the religious instead of the old regime.

The trouble is that these religious, contrary to mother Teresa, have a strong ideology. That’s where the problem lies.
Their ideology is to build a state ruled by Islam as an ideology, the same way the bolcheviks wanted to build a state based on the communist ideology.
Unfortunately all states rules by an ideology that either over emphasizes religion or denies it totally turn to dictatorships.
Will Egypt escape that fate? The West hope it will. I do not know as examples around us of countries ruled by religion do not bring much hopes.

I agree. I have always maintained that you distort religion when you politicize it, yet knowing the Muslim Arab psych, I think an Islamic phase is part of the ME evolution. Let the Arabs try the rule of Islamists and judge for themselves…if it turns out to be similar to Turkey then OK. If MB turned dictatorial, a second revolution is always easier than a first one….

Though not known for his emotional restraint, Erdogan has eschewed bellicose rhetoric over the incident, aware perhaps of Western reluctance to commit to any military action and wary himself of anything that could trigger a regional sectarian war.

According to Ankara’s account, the aircraft entered Syrian airspace briefly and by mistake while on a mission to test Turkish air defences.

Some analysts have suggested it might in fact have been testing the responsiveness of Russian-supplied Syrian radar that would be a major obstacle to any foreign intervention, including supply of Syrian rebels or reconnaissance support.

“I’m not of the opinion that Turkey will immediately respond militarily,” agreed Beril Dedeoglu of Galatasaray University. “But if there is another action, then there will certainly be a military response, there is no doubt.”

I agree. Yet as long as you are not living in the country where this happening, you may be patient and look coldly at how it unravels over decades. It’s another story when you are in it struggling.
If the MB will make it as its priority to help the poor of Egypt out of the humiliation of their extreme poverty, I am all for it.
Nasser tried that with “the success” we know with the ‘socialist’ ideology.

Unfortunately I think corruption and greed will very soon reach them too, when they will need to compromise with the capitalistic influence of the USA, the EU and the rich Gulf countries.
I hope I am wrong.

Lost over seven thousand dead and 21,000 wounded only to end up letting Israel grab even more territory. The Israelis gave it all back because frankly they didn’t want it, but not before they utterly demolished Quneitra. What was Hafez’s response to such a blatant act of pillaging? Absolutely nothing until the day he died, including when Israel annexed the Golan Heights in the early 80s.

A hopeless, utterly incapable dictator, but it says volumes about the pro-regimists that they kneel infront of his portrait and kiss it. Hafez was to politics what the Three Stooges are to sophistication.

“HA is a resistance and political movement. While it has a religious inspiration, it is not strictly an ideology. They have no goal of bringing Lebanon under religious ruling.”

That is not true at all, have you ever read the Hizbollah programme?

(a) to expel the Americans. the French and their allies definitely from Lebanon, putting an end to any colonialist entity on our land;
(b) to submit the Phalanges to a just power and bring them all to justice for the crimes they have perpetrated against Muslims and Christians;
(c) to permit all the sons of our people to determine their future and to choose in all the liberty the form of government they desire. We call upon all of them to pick the option of Islamic government which, alone, is capable of guaranteeing justice and liberty for all. Only an Islamic regime can stop any further tentative attempts of imperialistic infiltration into our country.

They are heavily motivated by their ideology, there is nothing secular about their approach to governance, politics, or anything else. Anyone that says their ultimate aim is not an Islamic Ummah is sadly mistaken:

We are the sons of the umma (Muslim community) – the party of God (Hizb Allah) the vanguard of which was made victorious by God in Iran. There the vanguard succeeded to lay down the bases of a Muslim state which plays a central role in the world. We obey the orders of one leader, wise and just, that of our tutor and faqih (jurist) who fulfills all the necessary conditions: Ruhollah Musawi Khomeini. God save him!

These are excerpts from a speech made by Sheikh Ibrahim al-Amin at the al-Ouzai Mosque in west Beirut

Interesting, I have never heard Sheikh Nasrallah, the leader of HA calling for an exclusive Islamic government, quite the contrary.
His anti colonialist stances are shared by all sane people in the region, that’s not an ideology.

Did you pick the religious part in their “secret” religious books or you gathered from reported speeches by some low level excited clerics?

In contrast can you tell us more about the Moslem Brotherhood ideology?

The lira weakened for a third day to the lowest level in 11 days after a Turkish warplane was shot down by Syrian forces.

[…]

“This is a major development and we will see selling until it becomes clear how this will be resolved and the uncertainty is ended,” Onur Bayol, a currency and fixed-income trader at Denizbank AS in Istanbul, said in e-mailed comments.

I think the difference is that the pope is purely a rigorous figure and has no political influence, wherease Wali al Faqih is a head of a regional power looking to influence the whole region. Politics and religion, as I think you agree, do not mix..when they do, spirituality does not exist. HA is now a political entity ruling Lebanon. It’s only allegiance should be to the Lenanese people and to the Arab in general.

Bond yields in Turkey rose for the first time in five days, jumping the most in almost 11 weeks, and the lira weakened after Syrian forces shot down the country’s warplane, escalating tensions.

[…]

“We need to wait until Tuesday when Turkey discusses a possible reaction with NATO allies,” Felix Herrmann, an analyst at DZ Bank AG in Frankfurt, said in e-mailed comments. “But for sure, downside risks for the lira have risen.”

It was not just a speech by some low level excited cleric, but the official spokesperson for HA in 1985, this is the declaration of the group when it was formed. This same declaration was published by Al-Safir newspaper simultaneously, on the 16th of Feb. 1985.

Both HA and MB are religious political entity, both are extremely similar except for the obvious, one is Shia the other Sunni.

Frankly I can’t stomach either, both use the “resistance” as a cover to push their ideological agendas. I strongly support a separation between state and church (or Mosque if you like), but I also respect other peoples individual choices however the line is drawn when their choices impede on my individual freedoms.

Syria described its shooting down of a Turkish warplane as an act of self-defense and warned Turkey and its NATO allies against any retaliatory measures.

[…]

“NATO is supposed to be there to strengthen countries,” Syrian Foreign Ministry spokesman Jihad Makdissi told a Damascus news conference. “If their meeting is for hostile reasons (they should know that) Syrian land and waters are sacred.”

[…]

“The plane disappeared and then reappeared in Syrian airspace, flying at 100 meters altitude and about 1-2kms (0.6-1.2 miles) from the Syrian coast,” he said. “We had to react immediately, even if the plane was Syrian we would have shot it down.”

“The Syrian response was an act of defense of our sovereignty carried out by anti-aircraft machinegun which has a maximum range of 2.5 km.”

Politics and religion are mixed in Islam as it mixed with the Catholic Church for centuries before the separation of state and religion.
The teachings of Islam are not only spiritual. Like conservative Jewish religion or Christian Mormons, they’re supposed to tell you how to lead your everyday life, religious, social and political.
Yet, I am sure they don’t call explicitly for an Islamic government in all the countries where there are moslems.
That’s the interpretation of the MB and the salafists, not of HA in Lebanon.

it’s bad enough the regime slaughtered innocent civilians, but to add insult to injury, loyalists have to compound the crime by concocting baseless fantasies that attempts to relieve war criminals of accountability.

in doing so, they are slandering the dead. have you no shame?

everyday, this regime kills innocent civilians with their ceaseless shelling. the regime has so debased reality that we all accept this as normal.

loyalists expect us to believe a regime that kills everyday with mortar shells, tanks and sniper fire – is somehow too exceptional and too principled to have sent in death squads to murder women and children.

Hezbollah has changed completely since 1985. Its strongest ally in Lebanon is a christian Maronite political movement.
It is obviously a movement in constant evolution while the MB that has been persecuted and discarded from power in Egypt has remained stagnant for decades.

Now is the time the MB shows if they can adjust, like HA did in Lebanon, to the social, religious and political realities of the country they are now allowed to rule.

MAARET MISREEN, Syria (AP) — The electrical supply merchant had barely arrived for work when the day’s troubles began: Residents were complaining of fuel shortages, rebels had detained teenagers accused of robbing the high school and — most alarmingly — Shiite gunmen from a nearby village had kidnapped five Sunnis.

By mid-morning, a dozen men pensively sipped tea in Yasser Mamaar’s shop, hoping the head of their town’s revolutionary council would know what to do.

Puffing on a cigarette in a long, brown holder, the short, wrinkled, 55-year-old in a gray robe and matching sport coat made calls on an old green phone to find the missing men.

“There is no police station, there is no state, so who else can they go to?” said Mamaar, who now dispenses advice, mediates disputes and issues orders in addition to selling light bulbs, power cords and circuit breakers. “We have to solve people’s problems.”
….

223. STICK TO THE TRUTH said: Turks oppose Syria intervention: poll
The majority of Turks believe President Recep Tayyip Erdogan should adopt a more neutral approach to the crisis in Syria, a new poll has found.

The opinion poll, which was conducted before the downing of a Turkish plane by Syrian forces on Friday, found that more than two-thirds of Turks opposed any intervention by Turkey in Syria.

The Ankara Social Research Center poll also revealed that a majority believed Ankara should not take sides in the conflict.

.

it’s nice to see the rigidly pro authoritarian, anti democracy contingent suddenly develop a new appreciation for the concept of majority will. unfortunately, they only expect turkey’s leadership to bend to and abide by public sentiment.