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Websleuths News

Join Websleuths Radio for the final discussion of THE KILLING SEASON
with Josh Zemam, Rachel Mills and special guests including Bob Kolker author of Lost Girls

I definitely think John has something to hide, and it's not just that he helped in the cover up. If Patsy caused the head blow, there had to be a reason that John has gone along with this intruder theory for the past 15 years. John was the one with the money and the connections; he could have easily turned Patsy in, and went on living his life. It's likely that Patsy had dirt on him too, and that's why he had to stay quiet.

i agree. i think they both covered up but i do not think either had to be coerced to do so. they were partners in this from the moment the both knew she was deceased. several possibilities why, but the molestation/discovery of molestation i think is the most likely scenario in my opinion. would neatly explain their actions that morning. amazing to still be talking about the ramsey case though. that case is how i got hooked on WS to begin with.

shout out to websleuths, the moderators and all the posters. you people are amazing to me. Best site ever!!

Been trying to reconcile some things about a RDI theory. How could PR kill JBR in cold blood? What would drive her to it? How was JR involved and at what stage did he decide to cover/go along with it.

A possible solution:

PR catches JR 'in the act' and becomes enraged.

PR is afraid of JR because of his Jekyll and Hyde temper. She can't fight him, leave him, tell the police, because she believes he might harm her and/or the kids.

PR guesses that JR's behavior has probably been going on a long time and it is unlikely that he will just stop.

PR, unable to deal with JR, and having a mental break from logic, decides that the only way to protect JBR is to kill her.

PR commits the act, without JR's knowledge or, perhaps, against his wishes.

JR freaks out. Because of his high profile job, standing in the community, etc. he CANNOT be involved in his own child's murder, let alone be labelled a molester.

JR presents PR with a deal. PR agrees to never mention JR's 'dirty deeds' as long as he helps her cover up the murder.

JR helps PR write the RN and stage the scene.

Just a theory. Anyhow, what do you guys think?

horatio,

It could be any of these, some are more likely than others. There is no doubt that Patsy, lets say, protected John in public. She made statements to that effect e.g. Nedra was there babysitting, so JonBenet was safe, when I was away nights or John took a negative view of JonBenet appearing in Las Vegas etc. Team Ramsey were well aware of the PR angle.

There is always the possibility that Patsy did not know JonBenet was being molested. That her death was represented to her as an accident that required to be staged so to preserve the family reputation, and that part of its enactment was to have a sexual element?

i agree. i think they both covered up but i do not think either had to be coerced to do so. they were partners in this from the moment the both knew she was deceased. several possibilities why, but the molestation/discovery of molestation i think is the most likely scenario in my opinion. would neatly explain their actions that morning. amazing to still be talking about the ramsey case though. that case is how i got hooked on WS to begin with.

shout out to websleuths, the moderators and all the posters. you people are amazing to me. Best site ever!!

It could be any of these, some are more likely than others. There is no doubt that Patsy, lets say, protected John in public. She made statements to that effect e.g. Nedra was there babysitting, so JonBenet was safe, when I was away nights or John took a negative view of JonBenet appearing in Las Vegas etc. Team Ramsey were well aware of the PR angle.

There is always the possibility that Patsy did not know JonBenet was being molested. That her death was represented to her as an accident that required to be staged so to preserve the family reputation, and that part of its enactment was to have a sexual element?

.

Another possibility is that she may have thought JB was being molested, or feared she was being molested but did not know for sure. Like many mothers of children who are sexually abused by fathers, brothers or other family members, she simply tried not to find out. I have a feeling this was the case, and I have a feeling she may have felt that's "what kids do" as far as her son being the abuser. Childhood sex play happens in families- though it shouldn't happen. Kids are curious, but education is the answer to their curiosity. Kids need to be told that NOBODY may touch them against their will or in a way that makes them uncomfortable, even mommy, daddy or siblings.

THIS time, we get it RIGHT!

This post is my constitutionally-protected opinion. Please do not copy or take it anywhere else.

Another possibility is that she may have thought JB was being molested, or feared she was being molested but did not know for sure. Like many mothers of children who are sexually abused by fathers, brothers or other family members, she simply tried not to find out. I have a feeling this was the case, and I have a feeling she may have felt that's "what kids do" as far as her son being the abuser. Childhood sex play happens in families- though it shouldn't happen. Kids are curious, but education is the answer to their curiosity. Kids need to be told that NOBODY may touch them against their will or in a way that makes them uncomfortable, even mommy, daddy or siblings.

Unfortunately, DD, denial seems to be a very common response in these situations.

How could Patsy not know about the molestation going on before the night JB was murdered?

Patsy called Dr. Beuf's office 3 times in one hour, after office hours, on Dec. 17th. Dr. Beuf was JonBenet's pediatrician. When asked in her interview in 1998 about it by LE, Patsy said she didn't remember what she called for. That was 8 days before her child was murdered.

There would have been blood in JonBenet's clothing/underwear from sexual abuse, unless the abuser had her take a bath afterwards, and probably even then. The maid said Patsy often changed the sheets before the maid got there in the morning when JonBenet had wet the bed. Patsy said she did laundry also. She very well should have known of any problems because of JonBenet's history with vaginitis which she and her Dr. later attributed to being caused by wet underwear or bubble baths.

More evidence Patsy knew came from an article on John Ramsey in The Daily Beast in which a reporter interviewed a close friend of the Ramseys for the first time, Pam Archuleta, John's former pilot's wife at the time of the murder. Pam also knew JonBenet and Burke, as the Archuleta's own children were playmates of theirs, belonging to the same Boy Scout Troup as Burke, involved in other things as well.

From the article in October, 2008:

[John] Ramsey admits, for the first time, that both he and Patsy suffered waves of guilt about the murder. "I kicked myself for not getting more sophisticated house security. We left it off that night because it would go off like a siren and catapult us out of bed."

Patsy, he says, “wondered who she had enticed by putting JonBenet in beauty contests.” And both parents lamented that the videos of JonBenet vamping in these competitions—released by the pageant organizations—became the only thing most people knew about their daughter.

"But she was a born performer, she and Burke would put on all these plays,” Ramsey says. The pageants were only an occasional fun thing."

Yet Pam Archuleta, over coffee and then wine at the Boulderado Hotel, said Patsy was “obsessed” by the contests, and she describes the alcove just outside the master bedroom in Boulder where Patsy displayed all the photos, trophies, ribbons and tiaras from her own days as Miss West Virginia. JonBenet’s pageant costumes were “handmade in New York, much finer than the other contestants,” says another family friend. "Her hair was highlighted, her makeup applied thickly and designed to make her look older. Besides, she had to take piano and singing lessons, she had a coach. Does that sound like fun?”

John Ramsey had misgivings about the cost of the costumes and the atmosphere of the pageant circuit: "I hated the 'I won, I won,' attitude of the other families,” he says. Sometimes, according to Pam, he and Patsy argued about it: "He came from a well-bred background and things like that were not done.”

Even Patsy expressed occasional doubts about the effect of the circuit on her daughter: "She is too friendly, just too friendly with people," she told Michael and Pam. “She flirts with people.”

[John] Ramsey admits, for the first time, that both he and Patsy suffered waves of guilt about the murder. "I kicked myself for not getting more sophisticated house security. We left it off that night because it would go off like a siren and catapult us out of bed."

Has anyone ever obtained an "alarm history" (if they had security monitoring), from their central monitoring company?

I am uncomfortable even speculating about this subject, largely because pretty much any scenario imaginable (including IDI) falls into the realm of the possible. Some, like the entire IDI thing, are less likely than others -- arguably bordering on the ludicrous -- but possible none the less.

So... is it possible that PR caught them in the act and wiped JBR out in a fit of anger and jealousy? Absolutely! It actually answers all the important question in the case very well, giving both parents a reason to support the conspiracy. It is also, in my opinion, what likely happened. I think it went something like this (briefly):

* Based on physical and behavioral clues PR suspected abuse.

* On the night in question, discovering her husband out of bed she got up herself to investigate, and discovered her daughter was also not in bed.

*Wanting to catch hubby (or "them" depending upon her mental state -- note she might easily have assigned as much or more guilt to her daughter as to her husband) she sneaks downstairs. They are not in the kitchen, and she doesn't want to turn the lights on and warn them, so she grabs the flashlight and goes searching in the cellar.

* She discovers them and lashes out, whacking her daughter with the flashlight. It is PR the neighbor hears scream, not JBR.

* JR, recognizing that his life just ended, goes into recovery mode. He tells PR he loves her so much he will help her cover up "her" crime, and sends her upstairs to write a ransom note and make sure BR is still in bed. Meanwhile he stays downstairs to clean JBr and mess up the crime scene. Remembering that PR has giftwrapped some clean underwear as a gift (and being a guy and JBR being prone) not recognizing that size matters here, he uses a pair of these to redress her.

* Finished, they meet up, PR tucks her daughter in for a final time, and they go upstairs to wait for morning. JR looks at the ransom note and sees immediately how ridiculous it is, but decides this will only help focus attention away from him, so he leaves it be.

Part of the "winter wonderland" illusion created by Patsy during their open house at the holidays may have included "faux snow". Could this have been used to cover footprints?

Also, when looking at the crime scene photos of the house, isn't it possible the neighbors thought they saw the illumination of strange lights inside the house, when actually the lights could have been coming from a flashlight in the back yard and shining through the open curtains into the house?

I am uncomfortable even speculating about this subject, largely because pretty much any scenario imaginable (including IDI) falls into the realm of the possible. Some, like the entire IDI thing, are less likely than others -- arguably bordering on the ludicrous -- but possible none the less.

So... is it possible that PR caught them in the act and wiped JBR out in a fit of anger and jealousy? Absolutely! It actually answers all the important question in the case very well, giving both parents a reason to support the conspiracy. It is also, in my opinion, what likely happened. I think it went something like this (briefly):

* Based on physical and behavioral clues PR suspected abuse.

* On the night in question, discovering her husband out of bed she got up herself to investigate, and discovered her daughter was also not in bed.

*Wanting to catch hubby (or "them" depending upon her mental state -- note she might easily have assigned as much or more guilt to her daughter as to her husband) she sneaks downstairs. They are not in the kitchen, and she doesn't want to turn the lights on and warn them, so she grabs the flashlight and goes searching in the cellar.

* She discovers them and lashes out, whacking her daughter with the flashlight. It is PR the neighbor hears scream, not JBR.

* JR, recognizing that his life just ended, goes into recovery mode. He tells PR he loves her so much he will help her cover up "her" crime, and sends her upstairs to write a ransom note and make sure BR is still in bed. Meanwhile he stays downstairs to clean JBr and mess up the crime scene. Remembering that PR has giftwrapped some clean underwear as a gift (and being a guy and JBR being prone) not recognizing that size matters here, he uses a pair of these to redress her.

* Finished, they meet up, PR tucks her daughter in for a final time, and they go upstairs to wait for morning. JR looks at the ransom note and sees immediately how ridiculous it is, but decides this will only help focus attention away from him, so he leaves it be.

Or something like that anyway.

MY OPINION ONLY, etc...

Chris_Texas,
PDI in response to abuse by John or enraged because JonBenet wet the bed?

OK fine but if its the former why should Patsy assist John. Why does she not dial 911 immediately to obtain medical assistance? She is not going to go to jail for accidentally killing JonBenet after discovering her being abused.

Also why hide the prior abuse? Does this not make it pretty obvious its an inside job?

You could be right, it might be as simple as PDI because she discovered JonBenet being abused!