More info, including video, here. Thought it merited a re-post in light of revelations that the admitted attacker was a county-level representative of the Paul campaign, and not just some random citizen.posted by joe lisboa at 4:26 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

FWIW -- I personally believe that this developing story -- and its details -- is a reason for allowing this FPP to remain and not be deleted.

What the flying fuck? Are they actually trying to curb stomp that woman?posted by loquacious at 4:26 PM on October 26, 2010

Or, what joe lisboa says!posted by ericb at 4:27 PM on October 26, 2010

I figured the incident was a little overblown when I first heard about it, like he had just pushed her away with his foot or something. But watching the video, the way the Paul people manhandled her to the ground was pretty shocking. And when the guy who had the foot on her suddenly stamped it down, I had an out-loud "What the fuck" reaction I haven't had to much online in a long, long time. I'm glad they identified the guy -- the general reaction from FreeRepublic and the rest was the idea that this was staged.

Rand Paul says he is thankful she was not injured.posted by KokuRyu at 4:29 PM on October 26, 2010

If the mods care to edit the phrases "face-stomping" and "curb-stomping," feel free: but that is what happened. Tried my best not to editorialize. I mean, watch the video.posted by joe lisboa at 4:29 PM on October 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

i shutter to think what would have happened if she had a rubber chicken.

and apparently told them that the camera angle made the incident appear worse than it really was.

well, then its ok to trap a person, as long as the camera angle is right.posted by clavdivs at 4:31 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

Perhaps it is my heritage, but I have to say that what sprang to mind is brownshirts. Something is seriously amiss these days,posted by bearwife at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2010 [13 favorites]

Before you stomp that MoveOn protester's head ask your self what would Aqua Buddah do?posted by humanfont at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2010 [17 favorites]

I strongly recommend reading the first quarter of William Shirer's RISE AND FALL OF THE THIRD REICH. But not if you want to sleep nights.posted by unSane at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2010 [15 favorites]

... this really ought to be headline news.

It is. It was covered by ABC, CBS and NBC on this evening's news, not to mention on CNN and MSNBC during the day.posted by ericb at 4:32 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Personally, I am calm in the face of this obvious outrage for one simple reason: this is an absolutely sterling example of where letting our anger and emotions take the lead over common sense and reason will lead.posted by paisley henosis at 4:33 PM on October 26, 2010 [8 favorites]

I was wondering when I'd catch one of these posts before deletion.

This is what the fight is about when people talk about making our federal government so small they can "drown it in a bathtub."

The hallmark of the Nazi party in its early days was that it used the excuse that its opponents were provoking it to attack them. Hitler continued this policy on the international stage when he rose to power. The Nazis always, always, always presented themselves as victims who were reluctantly forced to fight back. And both the German population and the internation community fell for it over and over and over again.posted by unSane at 4:35 PM on October 26, 2010 [103 favorites]

What the flying fuck? Are they actually trying to curb stomp that woman?

Nah. That wasn't much of a "stomp". He should watch "American History X" again, he was supposed to have her bite the curb and then apply some serious force to the back of her head with his boot heel. That was just a preemptive shove to keep her from biting his toes off or something (as crazy hippies are known to do from time to time). Actually this was all staged. The guy was planted in the Paul campaign by George Soros to discredit Paul before the election. I wonder if anyone has floated that idea yet...posted by MikeMc at 4:36 PM on October 26, 2010 [5 favorites]

Well, if you wanted any proof that the Tea Party has very little to do with libertarianism, instead just grabbing some of its catchphrases, there you go.

Hint: if you want to be libertarian, other people's free speech and personal safety is every bit as important as your own. If you're doing it right, you should probably prioritize it slightly higher than your own. The whole point of the ethos is to minimize coercion and violence, to make ideas win on their merits, instead of by convincing the people that control the guns.

How much hate would you have to have in you to do something like that over someone's political opinion? What kind of monsters are these people? How can such authoritarian assholes even use the word 'freedom' without blushing?

A free society means everyone has to be free, not just people you like.posted by Malor at 4:43 PM on October 26, 2010 [94 favorites]

Between the Joe Miller "cuff the reporter" incident and this one, it certainly seems like the Tea Party people don't have an issue with using a private security force to abuse people who disagree with them. Of course, the US has been using private security forces to do its dirty work in, for example Iraq for years.

Maybe this is how the Tea Party Republicans plan on creating jobs - hiring the angry unemployed to be private security.posted by Joey Michaels at 4:45 PM on October 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

Profitt passed some blame onto police, saying ‘A friend of mine went up to three policeman before Rand got there, and told them about the girl who was standing there with that wig on [Valle] and that she was getting ready to do something.’ Indeed, Valle told TPM, ‘The Rand Paul campaign knows me and they have expressed their distaste for my work before.’ She said five men ‘surrounded’ her before the incident, telling Valle and her partner that they were ‘here to do crowd control and we might have to take someone out.’

Blogger Sandi Behrns tweeted an undated photo of Paul with Profitt (above right). And ironically, as local blog Barefoot & Progressive observed, Profitt was among a group of Republicans who took out a full page ad today in the Lexington Herald Leader showing their support for Paul

Profitt’s accomplice, who held Valle down while he stepped on her head, has been identified as tea party activist Mike Pezzano. Gawker reports Pezzano ‘belongs to Lexington’s Rand Paul Meetup group and is an ‘assistant organizer’ for Kentucky Open Carry, a group that wants to make it legal to carry firearms openly and in public.’” *

While I personally find libertarianism highly amusing as a pseudo-political belief, this has nothing to do with Libertarians.posted by KokuRyu at 4:46 PM on October 26, 2010 [4 favorites]

It was really disturbing because the stomp was so deliberate: the lady had already been wrestled to the ground. There was no "heat of the moment" , and the attacker seemed to stomp deliberately and in a calculated fashion, rather than reflexively: you can see him pause for a moment, consider exactly where and how to place his foot to maximum effect, and then PUSH.

I can feel my blood pressure rising. When I first saw the video I gasped. I was trying to imagine what she must have felt like. Something along the lines of "Am I going to die?" would be about right.posted by morganannie at 4:50 PM on October 26, 2010

This is clearly heinous but am I the only one that saw him stomp her shoulder and not her head? Her head probably got driven into the sidewalk, but it doesn't look like his foot made contact with her head.

You know, I've never wanted to make an image macro before, but a shot of that guy curb-stomping that poor woman with "Liberty: You're Doing it Wrong" would be very appropriate.posted by Malor at 4:51 PM on October 26, 2010 [16 favorites]

Her head probably got driven into the sidewalk, but it doesn't look like his foot made contact with her head.

Just to play devil's advocate, if Democrats at an Obama rally saw someone from the Westboro Baptist Church trying to approach him to give him a "Baby Killer" sticker, one of them might physically intervene in defense of their candidate. They might even lash out a little in the process.

It would deserve criminal prosecution. But it would not say anything about Obama or the intention of his supporters to thug their way into power.

This is clearly heinous but am I the only one that saw him stomp her shoulder and not her head?

Against my better judgment I went back and watched the video closely. He has his foot more or less parallel to her neck with his toe at her shoulder blades and his heel on her head. It's his heel that drives her head into the ground.posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 4:54 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

Doublewhiskeycokenoice, on closer inspection I think you may be right about the heel.posted by mbatch at 4:55 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

i shutter[sic]to think what would have happened if she had a rubber chicken.

And, I shudder to think what our reaction would have been, if there weren't cameras there to record the incident.posted by ericb at 4:55 PM on October 26, 2010 [5 favorites]

They knew who she was and that she was not a danger. I'm pretty sure I saw a video of her trying to confront Paul a few weeks ago.posted by empath at 4:56 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Oh, so hired goon then after all?posted by Artw at 4:56 PM on October 26, 2010

I'm raising a glass for the Rally to Restore Sanity from across the pond. I'm not naive enough to believe it will achieve much, but I'm glad it's happening.posted by vectr at 4:58 PM on October 26, 2010

Outrage boner not achieved.

Not to worry, there are plenty of outrage boners and calamity orgasms to come.posted by blucevalo at 4:59 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Joe, this actually doesn't have shit to do with Obama, and not even really that much to do with Paul, who I am sure would have been absolutely fucking thrilled not to have one of his representatives step on a young woman's head on YouTube. Because? It's hard to color that right in the media. Leave the politics out of it and just actually watch a man step on a woman's fucking head and seriously tell me it doesn't bother you. This person needs to be in jail, and for a while.posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:59 PM on October 26, 2010 [63 favorites]

The Nazis always, always, always presented themselves as victims who were reluctantly forced to fight back.
the package is valid in the later years but there were fierce battles between communists and Nazis...go into Weimar and you see more. I have pictures of nazis getting the S%$@ kicked outta them. oddly, horst wessel sorta fits but even was he beaten many times.
so in defense of nazis, they got the beaten too.posted by clavdivs at 5:00 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

So yeah, using the popular media to dehumanize your political opponents and incite desperate people to rage by indulging their basest fears and worst impulses with distortions and outright lies, occasionally suggesting that violent retribution and armed revolution might possibly be an answer?

Just as a random editorial comment, not necessarily apropos of anything being said here, I posted about this elsewhere, and was saddened, and a bit sickened, and the fact that the first two responses I got, from people who otherwise seem perfectly reasonable human beings, was essentially to say "she should have known that would happen."

What the fuck?? So, if she had been wearing a miniskirt, and been raped, would she have been "asking for it"?

Should she have realized that the lunatics who hate what she's saying might do something atrocious? Sure. Should that really be your first thought, before "what barbarians, and I hope they get caught and prosecuted? Absolutely not. That blame-the-victim-first sort of attitude is exactly what allows people and movements like the teabaggers to grow and flourish.posted by Aversion Therapy at 5:01 PM on October 26, 2010 [10 favorites]

If a major pillar of your political philosophy is stopping the government from abusing people with jackbooted thuggery - show us you can control your own jackbooted thugs first.posted by yeloson at 5:02 PM on October 26, 2010 [40 favorites]

You know, I've never wanted to make an image macro before, but a shot of that guy curb-stomping that poor woman with "Liberty: You're Doing it Wrong" would be very appropriate.

I am capable of doing this; I even have the appropriate software already open. But that would involve me looking at every frame of this in detail for much longer than I have the stomach for.posted by louche mustachio at 5:03 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

What does Tim Profitt do for a living? I keep thinking about how fucked he is in future Google-searches. As well as the other poor Tim Profitts out there, who are gonna have to say, in future job interviews, "So, uh, you should know that I'm NOT the Tim Profitt that likes stepping on necks"posted by Greg Nog at 5:03 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

Just to play devil's advocate, if Democrats at an Obama rally saw someone from the Westboro Baptist Church trying to approach him to give him a "Baby Killer" sticker, one of them might physically intervene in defense of their candidate. They might even lash out a little in the process.

It would deserve criminal prosecution. But it would not say anything about Obama or the intention of his supporters to thug their way into power.

Or say, for example, it was Justin Bieber and a bunch of his fans saw this total hipster chick who clearly wanted to throw an egg at the Bieb?

Or say, for example, it was a cute little kitten and there were some kitten lovers around and the lady coming at the kitten sort of looked like that British lady who put cats in garbage cans?

Or say, for example, it was a Scarecrow made of straw and Dorothy saw a lady who looked a lot like the wicked witch coming at him with something that might have been a lighter?posted by Joey Michaels at 5:04 PM on October 26, 2010 [34 favorites]

I'm pretty sure I saw a video of her trying to confront Paul a few weeks ago.

So she's stalking him.

How exactly did they know she was not dangerous? She introduced herself once and said "Hi, I'm not dangerous"?

But it's not important. We can say for the sake of argument that they knew she was a non-violent activist who was simply determined to embarrass their candidate. I am not surprised that they wanted to stop her from doing so, or that one of them got pissed off enough about her repeated attempts to get violent.

He should plead guilty to misdemeanor assault, perform community service, pay her medical bills, and attend anger-management counseling.

Get back to me when there is organized intimidation of people voting.posted by Joe Beese at 5:07 PM on October 26, 2010

It would deserve criminal prosecution. But it would not say anything about Obama or the intention of his supporters to thug their way into power.

BARTLET
No. Let’s not, C.J. These people won’t be staying that long. May I have some coffee, Mr. Lewis? Al, how many times have I asked you to denounce the practices of a fringe group that calls itself The Lambs of God?

CALDWELL
Sir, it’s not up to me to...

BARTLET
Crap. It is up to you, Al. You, know, my wife, Abbey, she never wants me to do anything while I’m upset.... 28 years ago, I come home from a very bad day at the State House. I tell Abbey I’m going out for a drive. I get in the station wagon, and put it in reverse, and pull out of the garage full speed. Except I forgot to open the garage door.

Bartlet pauses to take a drink of his coffee and smile at Josh, who smiles back uncomfortably.

BARTLET [cont.]
Abbey told me to not drive while I was upset and she was right. She was right yesterday when she told me not to get on that damn bicycle while I was upset, but I did it anyway, and I guess I was just about as angry as I’ve ever been in my life. It seems my granddaughter, Annie, had given an interview in one of the teen magazines. And somewhere between movie stars and make-up tips, she talked about her feelings on a woman’s right to choose. Now Annie, all of 12, has always been precocious, but she’s got a good head on her shoulders and I like it when she uses it, so I couldn’t understand it when her mother called me in tears yesterday. I said, "Elizabeth, what’s wrong?" She said, "It’s Annie." Now I love my family and I’ve read my bible from cover to cover so I want you to tell me, from what part of the Holy Scripture do you suppose the Lambs of God drew their Divine inspiration when they sent my 12 year-old granddaughter a Raggedy Ann doll with a knife stuck through its throat? You’ll denounce these people, Al. You’ll do it publicly. And until you do, you can all get your fat asses out of my White House.posted by thesmophoron at 5:10 PM on October 26, 2010 [19 favorites]

So in some of my previous comments, I may have come across as a little eager to take on the Teabaggers- but I have also read Sebastian Haffner.

If you are concerned about the Tea Party, now would be the time to learn some self-defense.

i'm outraged for the simple fact that the assult occured, the victum being a woman is bias on my behalf. The fact it took place in connection with politics is just the setting.
and what does food serving occupations have to do with this.

You know, if you can't get an outrage boner without looking at a picture of Obama, it might be time to admit that you have a fetish.posted by klangklangston at 5:13 PM on October 26, 2010 [164 favorites]

How exactly did they know she was not dangerous?

That's not the way it works. If you're going to get violent with somebody, you have to demonstrate a threat. You don't get to say that they didn't prove themselves to not be violent.

Is this guy your candidate of choice or something? His employee assaulted a protester. That should not go without censure.posted by Astro Zombie at 5:14 PM on October 26, 2010 [20 favorites]

"But it's not important. We can say for the sake of argument that they knew she was a non-violent activist who was simply determined to embarrass their candidate. I am not surprised that they wanted to stop her from doing so, or that one of them got pissed off enough about her repeated attempts to get violent."

Wow. I'm astonished that you don't see an outbreak of politically motivated violence as important. Intimidation doesn't need to be organised, it just needs to be effective and unpunished for people to perceive it as low-risk and high-impact. Given that, I'd hope that the DA would make every effort to draw a very clear line in the sand, probably including charges under civil rights legislation rather than merely misdemeanors.

It is incredibly important that political violence does not become normal.posted by jaduncan at 5:15 PM on October 26, 2010 [20 favorites]

"she should have known that would happen."

WHAT THE FUCK.

No. She should have expected people to disagree with her, yell at her, and maybe call her names. But NOBODY should "expect" to be physically assaulted by a mob when protesting or doing political work.

Although now maybe we have to, since the McCain/Palin campaign, the right wing media, and the Tea Party have escalated the discourse to screaming, angry, violent mobs. And no, it isn't the same on the left and hasn't ever been, and anyone who asserts such a thing is L-Y-I-N-G. They seem to think that they can harness the power of the mob, control it, use it for their own ends.

And they can't.

By calling it a "back and forth" I understand they're trying to save face, but they are also sidestepping their responsibility and refusing to admit that they are doing something wrong and that things have gone way too far. This will continue to escalate as long as these people and organizations keep excusing this behavior.posted by louche mustachio at 5:15 PM on October 26, 2010 [23 favorites]

Joe Beese: "Just to play devil's advocate, if Democrats at an Obama rally saw someone from the Westboro Baptist Church trying to approach him to give him a "Baby Killer" sticker, one of them might physically intervene in defense of their candidate. They might even lash out a little in the process."

Not content to distract from disturbing right-wing excesses by harping on altogether less-overt actions from the White House (or just extremely uncharitable interpretations of same), you're now going to start relying on complete hypotheticals? This isn't an isolated incident, it's rooted in a long pedigree of angry, often violent rhetoric from the fringe right that is the base of the Tea Party. "Second Amendment remedies." The raucous, drown-out-all-debate town halls. Declaring "open season." Violent overthrow of the government if the GOP loses being "on the table." And that last one is from a fucking Republican candidate, not some random whacko.

You know, when the Digg Patriots were exposed, one of their main "defenses" was that liberals on the site were probably doing, or could do, the same thing. Problem is, they weren't. There was no competing progressive conspiracy to spam and censor and ban. Same here.

> Joe BeeseJust to play devil's advocate, if Democrats at an Obama rally saw someone from the Westboro Baptist Church trying to approach him to give him a "Baby Killer" sticker, one of them might physically intervene in defense of their candidate.

More likely it would end up with a Westboro Baptist Church member in Secret Service custody.posted by nathan_teske at 5:19 PM on October 26, 2010

Just to play devil's advocate, if Democrats at an Obama rally saw someone from the Westboro Baptist Church trying to approach him to give him a "Baby Killer" sticker, one of them might physically intervene in defense of their candidate. They might even lash out a little in the process.

It would deserve criminal prosecution. But it would not say anything about Obama or the intention of his supporters to thug their way into power.

that will be super relevant when that happens so you just go ahead and let us know when it does but until then can we talk about the thing that actually happened instead thanks in advanceposted by Gandhi Knoxville at 5:20 PM on October 26, 2010 [25 favorites]

Is this guy your candidate of choice or something? His employee assaulted a protester. That should not go without censure.

I foresee "Beating Free Zones" being formed. Which will not overlap with "Free Speech Zones" at all.

Meanwhile, when people are let go of media positions for overt racist spew, people will outrage over free speech.

"And no, it isn't the same on the left and hasn't ever been, and anyone who asserts such a thing is L-Y-I-N-G."

Umm...SDS/Weather Underground, Days of Rage, Oakland Draft Riots any of that ringing a bell?posted by MikeMc at 5:22 PM on October 26, 2010 [4 favorites]

Awful as what that guy did with his foot to that woman's head, it clearly wasn't curb stomping.

Everybody needs to simmer down.

To the extent that "curb stomping" refers specifically to an act most people earned about from American History X I suppose you're right. He did not force this woman to wrap her mouth around the lip of the curb and then proceed to drive his heel into the back of her head. However, he did drive his heel into the back of this woman's head while it was on or near the curb. By that more colloquial definition of "curb stomping" it's exactly what happened.posted by Doublewhiskeycokenoice at 5:22 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Can't this just be about a woman being violently assaulted?

"Man physically assaults woman" would not make it as a MetaFilter thread. The only reason this has any claim to our attention at all is the poster's implication of "ZOMG TEA PARTY BROWNSHIRTS".

Your "democrats would have done this too" tale is wildly inappropriate here

Fine. You win. As Republicans, these people are all deranged sociopaths. And Democrats are never excessive in their feelings of defensiveness, irritation, or anger.posted by Joe Beese at 5:22 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

This thread is not about Obama; do not make it about Obama.

I spent several minutes trying to figure out how to respond to Joe's Obama Tourette's in this thread and came up blank, but I guess that's good enough.posted by empath at 5:23 PM on October 26, 2010 [4 favorites]

MikeMC: Probably not, because none of those events are in the living memory for a substantial number of mefights, and a pretty hefty number of all Americans.posted by absalom at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

I'm not going anywhere, joe. I'm simmering down.

Cool. I guess? (no snark, just trying to parse your comments)posted by joe lisboa at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2010

it clearly wasn't curb stomping.

.... aaaaaand here we go.

American History X set the bar for curbstomping. If someone ain't dead it ain't a curbstomp.posted by MikeMc at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

That blame-the-victim-first sort of attitude is exactly what allows people and movements like the teabaggers to grow and flourish.

There goes my nazi defense.

had me till that, on a different level, you could blame my mother for the school yard beating i got from those 1970s red mittens with coat clips.posted by clavdivs at 5:24 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Fine. You win. As Republicans, these people are all deranged sociopaths. And Democrats are never excessive in their feelings of defensiveness, irritation, or anger.

Fine. You win. As Republicans, these people are all deranged sociopaths. And Democrats are never excessive in their feelings of defensiveness, irritation, or anger.

Oh yeah, I forgot about all of the times that democratic supporters did this sort of thing in... uh... when did that happen again, Joe? Maybe you can refresh my memory and reassure me as to why this isn't noteworthy.posted by codacorolla at 5:26 PM on October 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

poster's implication of "ZOMG TEA PARTY BROWNSHIRTS".

Sorry you are wrong again. OP did not even mention the tea party in the post text or in the tags.posted by morganannie at 5:26 PM on October 26, 2010 [5 favorites]

Fine. You win. As Republicans, these people are all deranged sociopaths. And Democrats are never excessive in their feelings of defensiveness, irritation, or anger.

No, see, I'm gonna say it again: Go and watch the video. Don't think about who's voting for who; that really doesn't matter. If you can watch what happens and think it's okay, all right, generally cool this thing that you're seeing, then so be it.posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:27 PM on October 26, 2010 [8 favorites]

What does Tim Profitt do for a living? I keep thinking about how fucked he is in future Google-searches

He's "retired". His wife is a local government employee, ie. a cafeteria lady.

"Fine. You win. As Republicans, these people are all deranged sociopaths. And Democrats are never excessive in their feelings of defensiveness, irritation, or anger."

...this isn't about you. It isn't even about party preferences. It's about saying that it is shocking and appalling to see violence used as a political tool, and something that should be clearly rejected. Was the title of 'Senatorial campaign representative assaults private citizen' not enough of a clue that it's not a partisan thing?posted by jaduncan at 5:29 PM on October 26, 2010 [15 favorites]

Because it's the only way they have a chance of acquiring and holding onto power. And it's all about power, no matter how "Libertarian" you claim to be.posted by oneswellfoop at 5:34 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Also, I said this with regards to the Joe Miller incident as well. Rand Paul and Joe Miller are private citizens. Barack Obama is the President. The President is allowed to have a security detail. Private citizens are not allowed to have private armies. Or goons. Or any sort of coercive force other than the law enforcement officers (or licensed security personnel, operating within very strict limits) assigned to them.posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:34 PM on October 26, 2010 [10 favorites]

Ok, those of you saying this is not a big deal imagine something for me. Some crazy lady walks into your dinner party and starts screaming obscenities and you're concerned she might do something. Your linebacker cousin carefully secures her to the ground and you look down at her. Would you step on her head at that point?

No? Why not?

Now imagine the kind of person who would to a stranger for protesting. They don't disgust you?posted by slapshot57 at 5:35 PM on October 26, 2010 [31 favorites]

I said a long time ago, btw, that winning the Iraq War would be almost the worst possible result of the invasion. Having hundreds of thousands of people trained in successfully suppressing a domestic insurgency with brutal force, coming back to a country with high unemployment is a recipe for a coup. Companies like Drop Zone and Xe operating in the US are a danger to democracy, imo.posted by empath at 5:40 PM on October 26, 2010 [17 favorites]

Joe's Obama Tourette's

This is an incongruous phrase to read from 1) someone who calls him or herself "empath"; 2) someone who is outraged by the violent actions taken by several of Rand Paul's supporters while stifling an unpopular opinion.

Joe Lisboa: my preferred course is to keep the outrage in check and let the process run its course. Outrage is counter-productive. "Assault" serves that. "Curb-stomp" does not.posted by notyou at 5:43 PM on October 26, 2010

The only reason this has any claim to our attention at all is the poster's implication of "ZOMG TEA PARTY BROWNSHIRTS".

Joe, I have disagree with you here. This is pretty clear evidence showing the Tea Party in violent Nazi brownshirt mode.posted by Blazecock Pileon at 5:44 PM on October 26, 2010 [12 favorites]

Yeah, Maud-forbid we use an accurate term! We might piss someone off and get curb-stomped!posted by muddgirl at 5:44 PM on October 26, 2010 [4 favorites]

This is an incongruous phrase to read from 1) someone who calls him or herself "empath";

[A couple comments removed. Joe Beese, you are done in this thread and we are basically one more episode away from you taking the week off. We have talked to you too many times and way too recently about this shit.]posted by cortex at 5:46 PM on October 26, 2010 [20 favorites]

Having hundreds of thousands of people trained in successfully suppressing a domestic insurgency with brutal force, coming back to a country with high unemployment is a recipe for a coup.

Of course, a lot of those people have rather dark skin tone. The Tea Party no likee so much. I'm not sure if that makes things better or worse.posted by TheWhiteSkull at 5:46 PM on October 26, 2010

Probably you're right, empath.posted by notyou at 5:48 PM on October 26, 2010

Profitt’s accomplice, who held Valle down while he stepped on her head, has been identified as tea party activist Mike Pezzano. Gawker reports Pezzano ‘belongs to Lexington’s Rand Paul Meetup group and is an ‘assistant organizer’ for Kentucky Open Carry, a group that wants to make it legal to carry firearms openly and in public.’”

So who wants to tell him it's already legal here? Or does this keep him quiet and out of momma's way?posted by dilettante at 5:49 PM on October 26, 2010

Fourth degree assault, a misdemeanor. I've looked at the video and I can tell by the pixels and having been in many a scuffle during my time, that the man in question did stomp the young lady about the head area with a shod foot, a weapon. That's assault and battery with a deadly weapon, not simple assault, but hey, I'm no lawyer.posted by jsavimbi at 5:52 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

Did you see that? That crazy liberal forced her head up against that poor man's heel and he almost lost his balance! He was forced to gently step on her to avoid falling...I can't imagine what it must feel like to have your foot assaulted by someone's head like that. I wonder if the poor guy can walk?posted by telstar at 5:53 PM on October 26, 2010 [15 favorites]

Holy Fuck. Do the "devil's advocates" not understand that defending violence makes you complicit in it?

It was not even a random swing with an angry fist (which is also not defensible). They restrained her and aimed carefully at her head. She could very easily be dead or brain-damaged for life.

This is an act of terrorism by two extremist conservatives, prominent in their local political circle, meant to hurt and intimidate anyone who disagrees with their politics. They weren't just attacking her; they were sending a message to anyone else who opposed them.

Fantasizing that somewhere, those opponents might also do something violent (I like how no one had any recent or relevant examples) somehow makes this understandable or less outrageous betrays a fundamental misunderstanding of the political reality, a reality increasingly composed of violent language and actions, the dominates our country at this moment.

It's not one random act; it's part of a much larger pattern of fetishized violence and anger, directed at minorities, women, gays, and immigrants. Anyone who refuses to see it, is not playing devil's advocate, but denying evidence that is staring them in the face.posted by emjaybee at 5:54 PM on October 26, 2010 [53 favorites]

"Assault" serves that. "Curb-stomp" does not.

I apologize. Assault via stomping the head of one on the curb, is what I meant to say. Thanks for the clarification. Also: I invited the mods to modify description after viewing the footage. They did not.posted by joe lisboa at 5:58 PM on October 26, 2010

Bring a dish of gazpacho soup instead, if you will.

Excuse me, Garçon ... what the heck: this soup is cold!posted by ericb at 5:58 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

PedantFilter: It's probably not terrorism, or assault, but battery. I have not looked at the definitions in Kentucky law, though.posted by anigbrowl at 5:59 PM on October 26, 2010

(I like how no one had any recent or relevant examples)

You can just google for "militia" or "military re-enactor" to find many, many examples of people who fantasize about overcoming their weaknesses through violence against whichever group is openly perceived to be a threat to those egging them on. Or you tune into Fox News.posted by jsavimbi at 6:00 PM on October 26, 2010

Oh, and Horst Wessel was a pimp.
posted by TheWhiteSkull at 8:13 PM on October 26 [+] [!]

"On January 14, 1930, Wessel got into a heated argument with his landlady, the widow of a Communist Party member. Although the exact details of the argument are still debated, what is known is that...

The Communists saw this as an ideal opportunity to avenge themselves on Wessel for the earlier attack...

The shooting was immediately exploited by both the Nazis and the Communists to further their political aims. The Communists portrayed Wessel as a pimp, while the Nazis claimed he had actually saved his girlfriend from a life of prostitution by introducing her to the Nazi Party and its values."

it also reinforces a point raised before about 'victim' portayal. The Nazis saw the"prostitute" as the victim and the Party as the salvation.

but what gets my vowels ouuta joint is how threads devolve and 'Godwin' seems the norm in political threads...fishy:{ i will restate i have unpinned spell check for comedic purposes}posted by clavdivs at 6:01 PM on October 26, 2010

You know, I've never wanted to make an image macro before, but a shot of that guy curb-stomping that poor woman with "Liberty: You're Doing it Wrong" would be very appropriate.

Wake me up when people start killing each other. Because, until it comes to that point, nothing is going to shock America out of the cruel circus that civic life here has become.

Hell, maybe not even then.

Meanwhile I just got back from a meeting of our local chapter of Americans United for the Separation of Church and State. We had four guests from King, NC visiting who told us that there are, right now, armed fundamentalist Christians guarding a flag on public grounds, and that their names, their children's names, and their home addresses have been posted to hate blogs because they support the removal.

I watched the video at least twenty times. He stomps her shoulder, which because it's connected to her neck, causes her forehead to hit the pavement. His heel hits her head, but it is not the primary point of contact.

This guy should be charged with assault. And that's it.

Given the sudden "no no no no..." of the other Paul supporter (I assume this), it looks pretty obvious to me that this guy is pretty much the unpopular kid looking for friends by doing stupid things and trying to be tough. On someone a third his weight and on the ground. He'd probably beat his kids if got it up to have any. If the Paul campaign does not remove this representative from his post, that says something. But until then, I will reserve my judgement for whether his sad campaign deserves the term "brownshirts".

Sometimes a misogynistic douchebag is just a misogynistic douchebag.posted by hanoixan at 6:08 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

Joe in your scenario the secret service would intevien as the person attempted to approach Obama. They certainly wouldn't do a boot stomp after the person was appropriately restrained. I can understand the need to physically restrain someone if they were approaching the candidate in a threatening manner, However Paul was no where around. She was just trying to make her way to be in front of the crowd.posted by humanfont at 6:09 PM on October 26, 2010

Everybody needs to simmer down.

Simmer down. And then what? Salute Rand Paul?

Sometimes a misogynistic douchebag is just a misogynistic douchebag.

Sometimes a political operative thug is a political operative thug. Actually, most of the time.posted by blucevalo at 6:10 PM on October 26, 2010 [6 favorites]

I'm pretty sure he fits many stereotypical descriptions of people who cannot control themselves enough to literally kick a person when they're down, there's something primal about that, but that doesn't excuse his behavior as a member of a political campaign nor does it excuse the post facto behavior of the campaign itself.

I wouldn't expect a candidate to suspend their campaign and hug a liberal activist over it, but you can only try and minimize the impact of the incident up the point when you realize that it was two burly men holding a woman down and assaulting her. Two men known to be active in your campaign. And that doesn't resonate well with civilized people of either political stripe, as clearly seen on the webernets today.posted by jsavimbi at 6:26 PM on October 26, 2010

"If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-- forever."posted by the_bone at 6:28 PM on October 26, 2010 [4 favorites]

Having just recently witnessed what happened when dissenting voices not just show up at an event where the President is present, but start chanting loudly smack in the middle of his speech (twice), I can confirm that what actually happens is:
- the crowd boos the protesters and yells "4 more years" a bunch until they shut up, and
- security peacefully escorts the protesters out.

And Rand Paul should lose. Mostly because he'd be soooooo bad. But if this helps keeps him out of the halls of power, hooray.posted by Astro Zombie at 6:37 PM on October 26, 2010

Well, if you wanted any proof that the Tea Party has very little to do with libertarianism, instead just grabbing some of its catchphrases, there you go.

FWIW, I did a half-hour interview with the Libertarian candidate for North Carolina's US Senate seat, Mike Beitler, last week, and he made it clear that the Tea Party he'd been excited about a year ago was very different from the "Sarah Palin theocrat" Tea Party he was seeing today, and that the change was not making him happy. In light of this idiotic assault, it's ironic that the example he used for the previously more purely Libertarian strain was....Rand Paul.

Joe Beese: And Democrats are never excessive in their feelings of defensiveness, irritation, or anger.

Wow, Joe. I agree with most of what you see in the Dems, but that's one of the stupidest things I've seen you write here in a long time. Minimizing the obvious violence bubbling under the surface - and being actively encouraged for political purposes - on the right in the US today by saying, "well, Democrats get angry too!" is just mind-bogglingly ridiculous.posted by mediareport at 6:40 PM on October 26, 2010 [9 favorites]

Scary thought. If the Republicans win the House (as is expected), Boehner will be two heartbeats from the presidency. I can't help but believe some people are looking forward to that.posted by dances_with_sneetches at 6:43 PM on October 26, 2010

When I read this "she should have known better" stuff that is being pushed around in the comment sections of various sources about this story, I feel like this demeans both the victim and the attackers.

The suggestion seems to be that the attackers are obviously incapable of basic impulse control; that they are prone to violence; and that they are incapable of facing any opinions contrary to their own. Indeed, if you should know that being around a group of people will result in your getting beaten up because of your political views, it speaks very, very poorly about that group of people. It implies they are ignorant thugs.

So it causes me a sort of cognitive dissonance when I read that people on the right are saying she should have known better than to be around their fellow people on the right. It suggests that not only are the attackers ignorant thugs, but that that is perfectly acceptable to folks on the right that their fellow conservatives are ignorant thugs.

I recognize that this sort of behavior isn't a new thing and that all periods of history feature groups of people mindlessly abusing other groups of people, but sometimes it seems like we've done an especially bad job teaching basic ethics in the last fifty or so years.posted by Joey Michaels at 6:46 PM on October 26, 2010 [9 favorites]

Scary thought. If the Republicans win the House (as is expected), Boehner will be two heartbeats from the presidency. I can't help but believe some people are looking forward to that.

During that same speech, Miller says about border security "if East Germany could do it, why can't we?"

Some idiot running for Congress in Texas says that if the Republicans don't do as well as he thinks they should, it's time for violent insurrection against the government.

Now Rand Paul's people are caught on camera stomping a woman.

This is officially some scary shit, y'all. I'm a big James Howard Kunstler fan, even though he can get a little carried away on trying to predict the future. But he's right about the cornpone Nazis, 'cause here they are.

Yeah, get out and vote and all that. But I've got a bad feeling this won't go away even if the Democrats somehow pull the House out of the fire. In fact, I suspect it might get worse. I've wondered for a while about Caesarism coming to the United States and the desperate desire of the country for a savior figure or a strong man to put things right. I know there have been proto-fascist movements in America before, but it doesn't make it any less disconcerting.posted by jhandey at 6:50 PM on October 26, 2010 [24 favorites]

If they'd had a taser they would have tased her as well. Can your average non-law-enforcement person get a taser?

"if East Germany could do it, why can't we?"

I thought that particular wall was to keep the people *in*, not out. At least mostly?posted by marble at 6:55 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

PedantFilter II: Assuming that jsavimbi is right and the boot is considered a "weapon or dangerous instrument", then this definitely falls under 2nd degree assault in Kentucky:

A person is guilty of assault in the second degree when: . . . He intentionally causes physical injury to another person by means of a deadly weapon or a dangerous instrument

2nd degree assault is a Class C felony.posted by flug at 7:04 PM on October 26, 2010

Not the machine guns, not the barbed wire, not the land mines, not the dogs. I'll go with the health care system and stalled economy for five hundred, Alan.posted by effluvia at 7:21 PM on October 26, 2010

Well, the blackface is terrible taste, but I have a soft spot for anybody who is down with the underground.posted by dirtdirt at 7:24 PM on October 26, 2010 [4 favorites]

I've wondered for a while about Caesarism coming to the United States and the desperate desire of the country for a savior figure or a strong man to put things right.

now that is personal.
how so, because the republic is run by two rich thugs, filling the tiber with bodies, dudes like Pulcher running around buying the mob, (let alone sneaking into the Bona Dea when Caeser was pontifex maximus) and WTF is Cicero?
Caeser was part of a triumvirate way before he was made dictator.posted by clavdivs at 7:33 PM on October 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

jhandey: "I've wondered for a while about Caesarism coming to the United States and the desperate desire of the country for a savior figure or a strong man to put things right."

This is what happens when you think you are fighting a war instead of just trying to get someone elected.posted by Allan Gordon at 8:39 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

i know what jack conway needs to do - run an ad with this video footage with the ending phrase - "is this the america you want in the future?"

and joe beese, you can excuse the man's followers all you like - and be outraged by my suggestion

but as LBJ once said, "make the son-of-a-bitch deny it"posted by pyramid termite at 8:40 PM on October 26, 2010

All right!
Stop whatcha doin'
'cause I'm about to ruin
the hairdo and hoodie that you're used to.
I look funny
but yo I'm wearing my big sneakers see
so yo world I hope you're ready for my Tea Part-y.
Now gather round
I'm the new fool in school-ya
and I'm stompin' all around with the Aqua Buddha.posted by Mid at 8:41 PM on October 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

The papers that William Randolph Hearst owned where responsible for whipping up incredible vitriol against President Mckinley, even going to the extreme of implying the president should be assassinated. Mere months later President Mckinley was shot and killed.

I often think of Rupert Murdoch as the modern manifestation of Hearst, and as frightening/sad/horrible as it is, I would be shocked if the current President does not leave office without at least one major assassination attempt.posted by edgeways at 8:46 PM on October 26, 2010

Claudius! What an idiot I've been!

I just got it too, Astro Zombie. They only had to beat me over the head with it.

Next time, try a ball-peen hammer. It might help those of us slow on the uptake.posted by Malor at 8:47 PM on October 26, 2010

There's something happening here
What it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware

I think it's time we stop, children, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

There's battle lines being drawn
Nobody's right if everybody's wrong
Young people speaking their minds
Getting so much resistance from behind

I think it's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

What a field-day for the heat
A thousand people in the street
Singing songs and carrying signs
Mostly say, hooray for our side

It's time we stop, hey, what's that sound
Everybody look what's going down

Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line, the man come and take you away

Profitt’s accomplice, who held Valle down while he stepped on her head, has been identified as tea party activist Mike Pezzano. Gawker reports Pezzano ‘belongs to Lexington’s Rand Paul Meetup group and is an ‘assistant organizer’ for Kentucky Open Carry, a group that wants to make it legal to carry firearms openly and in public.

This is why I am in favor of gun control. Testosterone fueled morons like this need to be unarmed.

I have firearms. I like my firearms. I enjoy using them to shoot trap and skeet and to hunt with.

From the poverty shacks, he looks from the cracks to the tracks,
And the hoof beats pound in his brain.
And he's taught how to walk in a pack,
Shoot in the back,
With his fist in a clinch
To hang and to lynch,
To hide 'neath the hood,
To kill with no pain,
Like a dog on a chain.
He ain't got no name;
But it ain't him to blame --
He's only a pawn in their game.

I will be in DC on Saturday, pushing love instead of pushing hate. Make it if you can.posted by notion at 9:11 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

you guys have had the fun for years,
i for one
like watching this ripping apart

I hope that's not where we're going, but, you know, if this Congress keeps going the way it is, people are really looking toward those Second Amendment remedies and saying my goodness what can we do to turn this country around? I'll tell you the first thing we need to do is take Harry Reid out. --Sharon Angle, Republican Senate candidate

"The option [armed revolution against a democratically elected government] is on the table. I don't think that we should remove anything from the table as it relates to our liberties and our freedoms. However, it is not the first option." --Stephen Broden, Republican Congressional candidate

"East Germany was very, very able to reduce the flow. Now, obviously, other things there were involved [i.e., a brutal totalitarian regime with no regard for life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness]. We have the capacity to, as a great nation, obviously to secure our border. If East Germany could, we could." --Joe Miller, Republican Senate candidateposted by dirigibleman at 9:48 PM on October 26, 2010 [10 favorites]

>Profitt explained that he used his foot to try and keep her down because he can't bend over because of back problems."

Wow, that's orders of magnitude worse than what he previously said about the camera angle making it look bad. It's pretty clear to me from his body language that that stomping motion was done out of spite alone.posted by Burhanistan at 9:54 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

Well that seems perfectly responsible. Don't want him pulling his back or anything while he assaults bystanders.posted by Allan Gordon at 9:55 PM on October 26, 2010 [6 favorites]

I can hear my grandmother clear as day: "Who does he think he is, a Soviet? Trying to make everyone afraid of them, that's what they did, you know. Kurat! They went down. These will go down too."

Yeah, screw them and the straw men they rode in on.posted by cmyk at 9:57 PM on October 26, 2010 [3 favorites]

The problem with these thugs is that they think violence is perfectly acceptable as long as they're perpetrating it, which seems to fit with their vague concept of "laws are good as long as they're in our favor." Right now I'm wondering if what us wussy Lefties need to do is throw the book at this guy, the people who helped him hold that woman down, and anyone else who does anything even remotely similar. Responding with more violence isn't going to fix it, because that's what they want, like people have said upthread - to feel they have no choice. Reminding them that we're all under the same Do Not Curbstomp People laws -- I'd like to believe that'll do something. I'm not sure it will, but...posted by cmyk at 10:16 PM on October 26, 2010 [2 favorites]

C'mon, Stompanado. Four better excuses:

I was learning a line dance to go with Boot Scootin' Boogie.

I was over-zealous in showing her my new butt-toning shoes.

I just got back from a wine tour of Napa and I hallucinated grapes on her.

There's a guy running for council in my local (Canuck) elections called Manley Risk.posted by unSane at 10:19 PM on October 26, 2010

I would have throttled that socialist MoveOnnik but my primary care physician told me never to aggravate my carpal tunnel that way.posted by blucevalo at 10:23 PM on October 26, 2010 [1 favorite]

It's going to be a bully nation unless the Left stands up against it.

is that not what your doing fish, taking a stand and speaking out, using your right to vote. The appartus to deprieve liberties on mass scale could not, IMO, succeed.

"The flames kindled on the Fourth of July, 1776, have spread over too much of the globe to be extinguished by the feeble engines of despotism; on the contrary, they will consume these engines and all who work them."

He has been issued a criminal summons. Also someone who worked in KY as a lawyer wrote into TPM saying he could be charged with a felony, depending on her injuries.posted by delmoi at 11:21 PM on October 26, 2010

The GOP candidate for treasurer of Alabama is blessed with the delightful name of Young Boozer.posted by Rhaomi at 11:22 PM on October 26, 2010

i love fishey
yes, agreed. i am all to aware of the inanity of american politics, i just wish people would have used the know-nothings as an example.
:>
g'night dear fish.posted by clavdivs at 1:06 AM on October 27, 2010

I was discussing this with an American right-winger on another forum. His first response to the video was "Obviously staged, just so the leftist nutbag could get her facetime on TV". I asked whether he was suggesting that the stomper was an associate of the woman rather than a Paul supporter. He ducked the question and said "Anyway, that wasn't violent. He hardly touched her. And she asked for it, behaving like that."

flug Assuming that jsavimbi is right and the boot is considered a "weapon or dangerous instrument", then this definitely falls under 2nd degree assault [a felony] in Kentucky:

jsavimbi As much as I'd like to see those clowns brought up on a felony charge, Kentucky does consider what the video shows to be assault in the fourth degree, a misdemeanor.

I think it's the significantly harder curb, not the boot, that is the issue here. Curb stomping with bare feet wouldn't be any less barbaric.

jsavimbi, please don't make pronouncement about what Kentucky is or is not. The operative word in the statute you linked is "recklessly" - as opposed to intentionally. I think it's pretty clear that the man INTENDED to curb stomp the woman, rather than merely disregarding a known risk that she would be curb stomped.

jsayimbi Fourth degree assault, a misdemeanor. I've looked at the video and I can tell by the pixels and having been in many a scuffle during my time, that the man in question did stomp the young lady about the head area with a shod foot, a weapon. That's assault and battery with a deadly weapon, not simple assault, but hey, I'm no lawyer.

I am a lawyer, and one of the most frustrating moments of my career has been prosecuting a curb stomping that put the guy into a neck brace as a misdemeanor aggravated assault rather than as a felony (assault w/ deadly weapon or assault with intent to cause great bodily harm). Unfortunately, when the elected DA makes that call, staff prosecutors don't get to change the decision.posted by thesmophoron at 5:40 AM on October 27, 2010

What the fuck is a ClavDiv?

An alternate kind of [div] tag that results in especially well-tempered sections.

What a repugnant idiot. Also, I just noticed a third guy that puts his foot on her ankle. Is he going to be charged also? This whole notion that they were protecting Paul is just absurd. It's going to really be a shame if these guys don't do jail time. I hope she sues the shit out of them.posted by Burhanistan at 7:29 AM on October 27, 2010

Lexington news station WKYT website commenters are ranting that Obama, Pelosi, and the Teamsters sent Valle ("the outside agitator") to the event to harm Paul and get attention for herself.posted by blucevalo at 7:32 AM on October 27, 2010

...when Caeser was pontifex maximus ... Caeser was part of a triumvirate ... Caeser did start the first newspaper ... Caeser was a lawyer.

As much as I'd like to see those clowns brought up on a felony charge, Kentucky does consider what the video shows to be assault in the fourth degree, a misdemeanor.

If a shod foot is a deadly weapon or dangerous instrument in Kentucky then this looks like Assault in the 2nd Degree to me, Class C felony... you don't have to cause serious injury with assault with a deadly weapon, but you have to show that the act was intentional, whihc given the video ought to be quite clearposted by ennui.bz at 7:48 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

“On a conference call organized by the campaign for Democratic nominee Jack Conway today, a 60-year-old Conway supporter named Michael Grossman said he was also assaulted by a Paul supporters at the same event. Grossman — who attended the event ‘simply as a supporter’ of Conway — was carrying a sign with Conway’s name on it. Shortly after Valle was attacked, Grossman said he ‘felt a heavy hand on his shoulder’ and turned around to see a ‘thug’ who ‘happened to be massive.’ Grossman said the man tried to ‘thrust me to the ground’ in order to get to Valle and take part in that melee. When Grossman turned around, he said the man ‘verbally berated’ him, called him a ‘communist’ and a ‘socialist,’ and said ‘you ought to be back in California or New York with all the rest of the scum.’” *

Ah, "scum," the eternal epithet of the thug, the brute, and the enforcer of hatred.posted by blucevalo at 8:10 AM on October 27, 2010

Once again, America as a society has championed and applauded ignorance and violence for decades now. Why are are somehow surprised to see a large, popular movement turn to ignorance and violence?posted by Legomancer at 8:16 AM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]

Joe Beese I'm not trying to join a pile on here. I agree with most of what you say elsewhere, I don't agree that it is best to quit voting but I agree completely with your grievances with the Democratic party and with Obama. I am, in other words, on your side.

And what you said here was just plain wrong, and pointless. WTF man? If Obama's people attacked someone I'd be all about publicizing it, but inventing hypothetical Democratic attacks to draw a false equivalency?

What were you trying to accomplish here? Because whatever it was you didn't manage it.posted by sotonohito at 8:28 AM on October 27, 2010

Holy fuck. I thought that was just a snarky paraphrase. That's a goddamned actual quote!!!
O_oposted by symbioid at 8:37 AM on October 27, 2010

That's the beauty of paranoid conspiracy theories. Anything that your side does that you disagree with you can always say is a plant and part of a conspiracy against you. Then whatever you do can never be wrong, even if your side engages in the worst possible conduct.posted by symbioid at 8:45 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

That bullshit meme has been coursing around the Web by Paul apologists for the past two days."

Paul apologists do tend to like that Alex Jones line of conspiracy thinking - remember these are the fringes between the republican orthodoxy and extremist militia groups.

Alex Jones LOVES Ron Paul. This IS a war to them (as mentioned above thread). They will use victim-blaming and then turn around after acting the bully and cry and act like they are the innocent victim.

PRO-TIP: If you don't want people to blame you for hitting someone and acting like an anti-social thug. Then maybe you shouldn't hit someone and act like an anti-social thug.posted by symbioid at 9:02 AM on October 27, 2010

Fear for your safety from whom? The chick you beat up? My, what a manly man you are!posted by notsnot at 9:04 AM on October 27, 2010

For a little levity in a grim discussion, watch Prime Minister Jean Chrétien give a protester a 'Shawinigan handshake' in 1996. If ya want it done right, ya gotta do it yourself, I guess.posted by No Robots at 9:04 AM on October 27, 2010 [4 favorites]

Stomping of MoveOn Activist at Rand Paul Event: Staged Incident?

Some of the comments are interesting:

"I find it funny that after getting your head pressed to the pavement with a boot, you stand up with a smile on your face for the camera. I would be punching someones teeth out and certainly wouldn’t be smiling for the camera talking about my experience.This is obviously a smear campaign and a ridiculous one at best."

"In watching this, she gave absolutely no resistance, none! In fact, she appeared to be smiling the whole time she was taken down, as if she couldn’t hold in her secret. Then in her follow up interview, there was no anger, as she smiled, appearing to be happy in what just happened! This appears very strongly in my eyes to be staged."posted by leftcoastbob at 9:08 AM on October 27, 2010

So, InfoWars is like some kind of semi-respectable Stormfront? It's all Tea Party cheerleading and 9-11 truther stuff. Just weird.posted by Burhanistan at 9:11 AM on October 27, 2010

So is this guy a plant or do Move On have mind control powers?posted by Artw at 9:13 AM on October 27, 2010

"I would like for her to apologize to me, to be honest with you."

Dick Cheney shot a man in the face and the man apologized. Tim Profitt, you are no Dick Cheney.posted by Fuzzy Monster at 9:14 AM on October 27, 2010 [15 favorites]

If this incident isn't fully prosecuted, things are going to rapidly become much worse. If there isn't a lot of push-back on the forums where these pro-violence bullies are making their asinine statements, they will only become more aggressive.

Things like this are starting to make me think that having cameras everywhere might not be so bad.

That and having having cameras instead of eyes will be a thing at some point in the future.posted by nomadicink at 9:33 AM on October 27, 2010

nomadicink: "Things like this are starting to make me think that having cameras everywhere might not be so bad.

That and having having cameras instead of eyes will be a thing at some point in the future."

Yeah but then people will be Neuroptic Jacking, and then these same people will just say that the video was all implanted into the entities neural net. Or they'll shoot the cops coming to take the imprint from the brain as evidence.

Yeah but then people will be Neuroptic Jacking, and then these same people will just say that the video was all implanted into the entities neural net.

Well, I guess it all depends on what sort of security they have installed on the software and if there are hardware dongles.

Or they'll shoot the cops coming to take the imprint from the brain as evidence.

Not if the images are constantly backed up, off body, to a central data base. I suppose the image could be hacked as it's wirelessly being transferred, but that would take a lot of skill, especially if it's a straight upload to the database. Then you get into tricky areas about who has access to the database and stream. Do cops need an court order? Do spouses have auto access or is that negotiated per coupling? Who owns those images after death, are they considered assets in the will?posted by nomadicink at 9:42 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

These people are insane and dangerous thugs. And by "these people", we used to be talking about easily-dismissable fringe groups (right-wing militia groups, etc.), but we're now talking about a legitimately large portion of "respectable" "values-driven" America. Scary. I've always been the person to roll my eyes when fellow liberals say things like "this is how fascist movements start", but I actually think it's a good point here and now.posted by naju at 9:46 AM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]

naju: " I've always been the person to roll my eyes when fellow liberals say things like "this is how fascist movements start", but I actually think it's a good point here and now."

No, those people are clueless. What we're going to see is this guy (and maybe Mike Pezzano) going to prison for some longer-than-a-newscycle period of time. There can only be one fascist movement in America, and it prefers to remain in power. Teashirts who act out are going to be put down; violence is politically uncouth.posted by rhizome at 9:52 AM on October 27, 2010

Things like this are starting to make me think that having cameras everywhere might not be so bad.

Tea Party candidates: So bad that having cameras everywhere seems like an improvement. Sigh. They are so, so bad for us! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism I am starting to think we should take that United States of Canada vs. Jesusland thing seriously.posted by theredpen at 9:56 AM on October 27, 2010

sorry to nitpick, but this isn't curb stomping and the term should be removed from this post.

Curb-stomping implies forcing the persons mouth open on the curb ("bite the curb"), then stomping the back of the head. Curb stomping is a much more violent action than what occurred here.posted by Crash at 10:04 AM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]

What we're going to see is this guy (and maybe Mike Pezzano) going to prison for some longer-than-a-newscycle period of time.

Probably, but I'm more concerned with the hundreds of people out there defending his behavior.posted by naju at 10:12 AM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]

First, the question of whether this counts as curb-stomping or not has been covered.

Second, the general definition of curb-stomping I've seen is basically curb+boot+head=stomping-of-head-against-curb. So this applies.

Third, that sort of rhetoric is rather destructive. It's much like people who claim date rape isn't 'real rape' and that 'rape is a much more transgressive act than what occurred here' in those cases.

Whether this is curb-stomping as defined by Hollywood or 'merely' a political representative driving the heel of his boot into the head/neck of a MoveOn person while it is leaned up against a curb within a subset of political discourse which implies and winks suggestively at the idea of widespread political violence to further transparently corporatist aims; the narrowness of the definition doesn't matter.posted by CrystalDave at 10:14 AM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]

sorry to nitpick, but this isn't curb stomping and the term should be removed from this post.

Ditto this. Curb-stomping is something very specific and this ain't that. An actual curb stomp is orders of magnitude more horrific.

He should plead guilty to misdemeanor assault, perform community service, pay her medical bills, and attend anger-management counseling.

I will agree with Joe Beese on this.

For a little levity in a grim discussion, watch Prime Minister Jean Chrétien give a protester a 'Shawinigan handshake' in 1996. If ya want it done right, ya gotta do it yourself, I guess.

Let me ask you this, was the damage any worse because the person's midsection was across the curb? If not, it's just someone stomping on someone's head near a curb. Assault definitely, but not curb-stomping.posted by Crash at 10:20 AM on October 27, 2010

Dude, if you were sorry to nitpick you wouldn't do it like you are now.posted by Mister_A at 10:23 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Where is this encyclopedia of of violent action terminology everyone is referencing? I demand more linguistic purity in the way we describe the gradations of violent actions, people! This apparently wasn't a curbstomp but a stompaliberalintothecurbwithyourfoot. That's very different folks!posted by madamjujujive at 10:24 AM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]

>Ditto this. Curb-stomping is something very specific and this ain't that. An actual curb stomp is orders of magnitude more horrific.

Well, I think at this point in history any untoward violence against those who peacefully differ with you is pretty atrocious. We can be content with saying that a large man stepped on a woman's head. It wasn't as willfully malicious as curbstomping proper, which requires more intention on the attacker's part that Proffit had (it just seemed like he has really bad impulse control), but that kind of move could have easily done real damage. We don't need any of this sort of thing in a democracy and if the acts perpetrator get labeled with a more extreme term than what he might've actually perpetrated, then I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.posted by Burhanistan at 10:25 AM on October 27, 2010

How about we just acknowledge that the reading of "curb-stomping" is bumpy given different perceptions of the meaning and severity of the implied act, agree that there was stomping and a curb, and move on from the subject in the spirit of mutual understanding that while a different phrasing would have dodged that bit of unclarity the point is somewhat mooted by the availability of actual video evidence of what happened that we can all evaluate directly? Hey? Yeah?posted by cortex at 10:30 AM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]

Curb-stomping implies forcing the persons mouth open on the curb ("bite the curb"), then stomping the back of the head. Curb stomping is a much more violent action than what occurred here.

I'm glad someone pointed to the definition that included this because clearly my failure to consume appropriate pop culture to know this definition means I'm unfit to comment on violence in real-life politics.posted by immlass at 10:41 AM on October 27, 2010 [9 favorites]

Also the tea party are not real nazis because nazis are SOCIALIST!posted by Artw at 10:45 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Man, I'd hate to see what would've happened if he was Waffle-Stomping ;) (i'll leave that to you to look up!)posted by symbioid at 10:46 AM on October 27, 2010

I'm glad someone pointed to the definition that included this because clearly my failure to consume appropriate pop culture to know this definition means I'm unfit to comment on violence in real-life politics.

Just because you frame things as happening only in 'the movies' doesn't mean that violence doesn't occur in real life (see link above).

You are diminishing the word curb-stomping by applying it here.

Is this assault? Yes. Why isn't that enough? Watch the video of a real-life curb stomp and tell me why you think these are similar/comparable.posted by mazola at 10:48 AM on October 27, 2010

Ev'rybody young n' old
Watch how we reach our goal
Looky here, jus' politics
Knock her down, get your kicks

Curb stompin',
Curb-stompin', a good timeposted by Floydd at 10:57 AM on October 27, 2010

You are diminishing the word curb-stomping by applying it here.

Who the fuck cares? This was assault. Don't call it curb-stomping if you don't want to. The important point is not to lovingly choose the precise form of assault but to point out that this is thuggery, and that the "tea party" platform, such as it is, is encouraging "second amendment options" and other violence against those in disagreement.

These guys are crybaby assholes, thugs, and school-yard bullies trying to wreck the country I live in. Make sure to vote this time.posted by theredpen at 10:59 AM on October 27, 2010 [4 favorites]

You are diminishing the word curb-stomping by applying it here.

Proffit put someone's head on a curb and stomped on it. I watched that video. If the word "curb-stomping" cannot be applied to the act of stomping a human being's head when it is lying on a curb, I don't know what we can call that act.

I understand that there are more violent forms of curb-stomping and that they happen in real life. It is not diminishing those acts to describe what Proffit did as curb-stomping his victim. The point is that this taxonomy is in your head and not generally agreed in the English language.

There is a difference between diminishing a term and not agreeing to your limited definition.posted by immlass at 11:08 AM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]

Tim Proffitt is an abuser. He is exhibiting systematic and purposeful patterns of behavior in order to gain or maintain power and control over the situation by making and carrying out threats, minimizing/ denying/ blaming, controlling and/or limiting another person's own choices, and backing it all up with physical violence.

I am not sure if Mrs. Proffitt needs this, but here is the National Domestic Violence Hotline in case she does and she reads this thread: 1-800-799-7233 or 1-800-799-SAFE.posted by psylosyren at 11:13 AM on October 27, 2010 [2 favorites]

Who the fuck cares? This was assault.

So call it assault and treat it as assault. Embellishment erodes credibility. I'd say that's a problem.

Curb-stomping is a red herring here. So why use it? They're not going to charge this guy with 'curb stomping'. He'll be charged with assault. Will it be misdemeanor or felony?

I would like to see this fellow charged with assault. I think it's a win if it is made abundantly clear that even simple, misdemeanour assault is wrong and will not be tolerated.posted by mazola at 11:13 AM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

So does nitpicking. A perfectly reasonable alternative usage of "curb stomping" has been offered here, and yet you maintain that it is universally understood as being one specific action. It isn't. Her head got stomped on a curb. It might not be a curb job, which is what I always heard the "bite the curb" thing being called, but she definitely got a curb stomping. Now can we stop this derail?posted by Astro Zombie at 11:20 AM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]

Remember how Joe Miller's goons deleted the video of their criminal behavior? Make sure you get an offsite backup. I don't know if there are any other services doing this, but I've installed Qik on my phone for that purpose.posted by Jimmy Havok at 11:24 AM on October 27, 2010

I thought putting someone's teeth on the curb and then kicking the back of their head was called a "curb job". I've never heard of "curb stomping".posted by Brocktoon at 11:27 AM on October 27, 2010

I may be strange, but the fact that it's been worse than this within living memory and it's still this bad, has me pretty damn close to full-on despair. I can understand clutching at straws of hope. I fault no-one for it. But my optimism has been eroded away recently.posted by Splunge at 11:47 AM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]

It got better because people got distracted. We shot some guys onto the moon, had a cold war, a couple of hot wars, played funny ponzi-scheme games with the economy. Kept everyone busy. Now there's massive financial depression and unwinnable 'peacekeeping missions' and all I see are a bunch of scared white men, clinging desperately to all the control they have, with all the force they can muster.

It was bad, then it got better in revulsion over how bad it was, but then there was the sense that the problem was solved. That allowed the evil forces to rally and so it's getting bad again.

This problem can be defeated again. We are not alone. We elected Obama, didn't we? He might not be the president we had hoped for, but he's certainly not bad overall. Yet if the Tea Party has their way we will end up with someone unspeakably horrible in charge. We could end up with Palin, or even worse -- and yes, worse exists.

We cannot afford to be demoralized here. There is more work to do now than ever. The cause of progressiveism in the U.S. has become insular and lazy, and now that Fox and friends has shown that the cause of evil wasn't as defeated as it seemed we're scared that we're living in such a bad world. Well, boo hoo.

We only have the world we live in, and it's only as good as we make it. We must fight back. The battle didn't end with Obama. In truth, it never ends -- thinking it ever ended is why it's so bad now.posted by JHarris at 12:46 PM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]

“I am offended and outraged by the words of Tim Profitt, the Rand Paul campaign worker who, with two other men, threw 23 year-old Lauren Valle to the ground and then stomped on her head, leaving her with a concussion. Profitt said the attack was 'not a big deal,' that Lauren 'instigated it' and that 'she should apologize' -- words that are eerily familiar to many women who have faced assault and abuse.

“Lauren's exercise of her First Amendment rights cannot possibly justify the violence against her any more than a woman's clothes can excuse a sexual assault. If Tim Profitt can get away with blaming Lauren for his attack on her, then women -- and all those speaking out for their beliefs in this political climate -- will have reason to fear. Candidates on both sides of the aisle, including Rand Paul, must condemn Profitt's outrageous statements and call out this violence for what it is: anti-women and anti-American."

"Rand Paul’s campaign said Thursday that it would not return $1,950 in contributions from a Bourbon County supporter [Tim Profitt] involved in an altercation in which a woman was injured before Monday night’s U.S. Senate debate in Lexington."

Security cameras are not the answer. We have far too much security theater already, and it's because people have become so used to it that authoritarians can flourish. Consider the guys who detained and handcuffed that journalist at the Miller event in Alaska. They weren't dressed as militiamen in camouflage pants and parkas, but in neat suits with those little audio tubes all security personnel use. People see that and assume it's 'official'.

MeFi readers might find this economics paper, Garrison America (pdf) interesting; the US uses about a quarter of the labor force for security of some sort, not including the military or police.posted by anigbrowl at 1:47 PM on October 27, 2010

Cantor has refused to debate his opponent throughout the campaign season, says he doesn't want to contribute to a "food fight."posted by blucevalo at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

Whoops, sorry, didn't see ericb's comment above.posted by blucevalo at 1:55 PM on October 27, 2010

Progressives need to go to the Home Depot and recruit some muscle from the immigrants that the Republicans hate and fear so much. Turn this into a fight between people with skin in the game and it will get someplace.posted by Space Coyote at 2:21 PM on October 27, 2010

> Turn this into a fight between people with skin in the game and it will get someplace.

I know that's mostly a joke but there has been a lot of talk about what progressives need to do to oppose these people, and I think it's a bit wrongheaded. In the video, there were Paul supporters who told these thugs to back off and let the woman go. Perhaps they should have been more assertive, but they did speak up. These are the people the Left needs to dialogue with. Yes, perhaps their political positions are ignorant and based on fear, and they may well indeed harbor racism and other nasty unenlightened traits. But, they aren't stomping people. They need to be reached out to and told to keep their ranks free of thuggish violence, and educated on the dangers of trying to crush opposing viewpoints.

If you're for anything here, make it about reaching out to the people in the Tea party who are not totally lost and maybe there can be some reasonable discussion. If you make it strictly a left vs right thing then the polarization just gets worse.posted by Burhanistan at 2:28 PM on October 27, 2010 [5 favorites]

This happened in Wisconsin The group found a scheme between the Republican Party, Americans for Prosperity and the Tea Party using the AFP mailing lists to say "you should reply to prove you live here, otherwise you may not be eligible to vote" and then the Teabaggers will be at the polls as "workers" and challenge the voters who haven't replied to the private mails, and lawyers will be lined up behind them. Supplied, of course, by the Republican Party (wait. I thought lawyers were the bad guys according to Republican rhetoric!)

And of course, they're not doing this to wealthy and middle class neighborhoods, but lower-class neighborhoods and college towns.

Honestly, complaining about voter intimidation, and tea-party thuggery will when every poll shows us losing legitimately is kind of a red herring.

The GOP isn't going to win because of violence, they're going to win because the Democrats in congress completely mishandled the last session and they deserve to lose. A significant percentage of Democrats that are likely to lose are the Blue Dogs who aren't worth a goddamned anyway, so the actual effect of the GOP winning the election will not be that great. The Democrats will hold the Senate, where our "filibuster proof majority" was never filibuster proof, and the house will vote for a bunch of symbolic bullshit that will never get past the senate and the president will veto.posted by empath at 2:38 PM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]

empath: let me turn that around a little. Since the Republicans are almost certain to pick up huge gains, and considering the Democrats are so pathetic, feckless and ineffective, why the need to be so horrible and stoke such hatred? And, hell, for that matter, what does that horribleness entail for *after* the election when the entirety of your platform is Carthago delenda est?posted by absalom at 2:54 PM on October 27, 2010 [1 favorite]

WASHINGTON—Conceding almost certain Republican gains in next month's crucial midterm elections, Democratic lawmakers vowed Tuesday not to give up without making one final push to ensure their party runs away from every major legislative victory of the past two years.

Party leaders told reporters that regardless of the ultimate outcome, they would do everything in their power from now until the polls closed to distance themselves from their hard-won passage of a historic health care overhaul, the toughest financial regulations since the 1930s, and a stimulus package most economists now credit with preventing a second Great Depression.

"There's a great deal on the line, and we know it isn't going to be easy for us," said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV), speaking from the steps of the Capitol. "But if we suffer defeat, we will do so knowing we cowered away from absolutely anything we produced that was even remotely progressive or valuable in any way." [...]

Since the Republicans are almost certain to pick up huge gains, and considering the Democrats are so pathetic, feckless and ineffective, why the need to be so horrible and stoke such hatred? And, hell, for that matter, what does that horribleness entail for *after* the election when the entirety of your platform is Carthago delenda est?

I am going to guess corruption and feeding at the trough, and a lot of angry morons who will now be angry at the republicans again once they're actually forced to actually vote on stuff instead of lying about how they're going to vote.posted by empath at 3:03 PM on October 27, 2010

And that would be the heart of their problems, neatly summarised.posted by Artw at 3:04 PM on October 27, 2010

our problems, you mean.posted by absalom at 3:06 PM on October 27, 2010

It is my theory that while Democrats and Republicans are very much alike in many ways, Democrats have a problem. They can't do the same things that Republicans do for any length of time without feeling fucking guilty.

They may hire people like publicists to do it for them. You know, attack ads and the like, but eventually they say, back off man.

Dems are just as selfish and self-centered as Repubs. But they still have the vestiges of some shriveled conscience.

This pretty much allows them 1 or 2 terms between the long suffering that is Republican rule. But let's be honest, would we have them any different? Because if they did what Republicans did to grab elections, they would indeed be Republicans, no?

And then we wouldn't even have the farce that is our electoral system now.

As an example I put forth three presidents.

Jimmy Carter
Bill Clinton
Barack Obama

I do not believe that any of the three were voted in on their individual merits. I believe that they were voted in purely via backlash. In each case, the American (yes fucking American, deal) public finally got tired.

Then the Republican machine got back in gear and things got back to (ab)normal.

Note: I do not care to label myself as any party. You may label me, but that's your perception. I'm not a political shill.

Gearing up for "Sarah Palin is just the same as Obama"?posted by Artw at 5:08 PM on October 27, 2010

At this point early voting by Dems is running 5% ahead of Republicans. This is contrary to projections. Most pollsters have build their models on a likely voter model tilted towards Republicans. However no one will know until the votes are cast.posted by humanfont at 5:14 PM on October 27, 2010

Honestly, complaining about voter intimidation, and tea-party thuggery will when every poll shows us losing legitimately is kind of a red herring.

It's participation the process that validates the outcome. Losing legitimately doesn't bother me (other than with a party running a poor campaign); people having their civil rights infringed of getting beaten up bothers me. I really wouldn't be surprised if there were another incident in Kentucky before it's done.posted by anigbrowl at 6:59 PM on October 27, 2010 [3 favorites]

Tea Party members have started challenging voter registration applications and have announced plans to question individual voters at the polls whom they suspect of being ineligible....

In St. Paul, organizers from the Tea Party and related groups announced this week that they were offering a $500 reward for anyone who turned in someone who was successfully prosecuted for voter fraud.

The group is also organizing volunteer “surveillance squads” to photograph and videotape what it suspects are irregularities, and in some cases to follow buses that take voters to the polls.

In Milwaukee last week, several community groups protested the posting of large billboards throughout the city that show pictures of people behind jail bars under the words “We Voted Illegally.” The protesters said the posters — it was not clear who paid for them — were intended to intimidate people from voting.posted by naju at 7:50 AM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

I like how they're going to question people walking into polling places who they "suspect of being ineligible." Based on seeing someone parking their car and walking into a building, how would they have any basis for suspecting that person? It really just sounds like they're going to harrass black and Latino voters.posted by naju at 12:06 PM on October 28, 2010 [1 favorite]

We are going to win the battle on Tuesday. You already know that to be true.

The question that has not yet been answered is,

How big will the victory be?

Our goal is to give the big government liberals who have violated the constitution a pounding of historic proportions. They deserve no less."posted by mikepop at 1:09 PM on October 29, 2010

Our goal is to give the big government liberals who have violated the constitution a pounding of historic proportions. They deserve no less.

Meh. They'll be up 50 seats and get to ensure congress does nothing of any use, but it's not like Democrats hadn't got it half way there anyway.posted by Artw at 1:12 PM on October 29, 2010 [1 favorite]

When fascism takes America, it will happen almost overnight. Either this gets nipped in the bud early, or all hell breaks loose.

Several other countries have experienced fascism. The USA is not magically immune.posted by five fresh fish at 1:17 PM on October 29, 2010

Bullies. Even their humor is mean, violent & twisted.

Do you have anti-gun friends who do not seem as 'joyous' as they were after the election of the "Great One"? Maybe they're worried about their 'security' at home with the increasing "residential crime" they've been reading about. Also, maybe they realize now that the police can't be everywhere to protect them within seconds.

"Maybe they're worried about their 'security' at home with the increasing "residential crime" "

1) No, that'd be you 'fraidycat gun-nuts. You're the ones always freaking out about gettin' offa mah land, and burglars and shooting people. Why you always be gettin' people on your property? Really? Is it that serious? I swear to god.

2) "residential crime" in quotes? That's a racist code term now? Lovely.posted by symbioid at 7:59 PM on October 29, 2010

Today, I was kinda pondering, and if I weren't such a bleeding heart concerned about the actual realities of the situation.... I was thinking. Let's do it. Have it. Have it all. 100% Take it. 100% Republican control of ALL branches. (Ok, maybe not the Supreme)

But give them 100% House, Senate, Presidency. Let them have it for a decade. Take it. Implement your agenda. It's yours. Nobody will fight, just take it. Have it. Pass your wonderful Utopian agenda of no taxes. No welfare (save corporate welfare, of course)...

Have it all.

Let's see what happens when grandma stops getting her SS checks. When Chuck the former Democrat now teabagger no longer receives the shit from the government that helps him live. Let's have at it. Let's see you chumps survive without help from the rest of us.

I really wonder.

But then I see that report (was it earlier in this thread?) that says when shit gets bad, people turn MORE conservative and greedy... So then I think, even that won't make them change. And that's just depressing as all fuck, because I have no clue what to do.posted by symbioid at 8:04 PM on October 29, 2010

Well, all of this is pretty much over, but I wonder how it would have been if the anti-Tea people had been carrying open.posted by rhizome at 9:13 PM on October 29, 2010

It would have been awesome. I hope they start.posted by unSane at 9:20 PM on October 29, 2010

Yes, I saw this. As a KY resident who resides in a progressive island surrounded by a sea of hate and racism, I drank heavily to this.

A word of advice if anyone is in a similar state of mind - Don't read the comments on the local papers unless you are looking for a reason to feel alienated.posted by MysticMCJ at 9:06 AM on November 3, 2010

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