Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

Yes, it's unusual. A lot of places will have both booze and food, but if you're ordering food, they generally seat you at a table and there's a server. People at the bar are usually just drinking, or just drinking and maybe having an appetizer, or waiting for a table to open up. There are also places where everybody orders at the counter, but those are cheaper places (fast food or the somewhat nicer "fast casual") where there isn't any prime rib.

Yeah, this didn't make any sense to me either. Did she sit there with nothing when he ate? Odd. Did she order, but was just grumpy he didn't specifically say the words "and what are you having?" If I were out to dinner with anyone I really don't think those words would be necessary--I mean, the waiter is there, taking both their orders, why would her date also need to ask what she's having? Does she ask him what *he's* having?

Maybe they were sitting somewhere where they had to go up to the counter to order, and they were sitting chatting and he got up to order without saying something like "ok, I'm going to grab some food, are you getting anything?"

The comment about tattoos makes me think she perhaps has traditional gender expectations and her date did not. Certainly incompatibility, but not, I would say, a case of either person being rude.

I love That Bad Advice!

I think you're right--I think she wanted a sort of ritual of him asking what she wanted. I know sometimes my dinner companions and I will chatter about what we're having, or thinking of having, before the server comes to take our orders, but we don't really stand on ceremony about it (as in thinking it's rude if it doesn't get asked). Sometimes we're busy chatting about something else.

I could swear there was another letter, maybe about a year ago, where a woman blamed tattooed women for ruining dating because of some other incident. I wonder if it's the same woman and she just has a huge hangup on the topic.

There just isn't enough information in the letter to assess what the scenario actually was. Going on just what is included, her date didn't ask her if she wanted anything to eat or drink. It doesn't say anything about the waiter, or whether she actually had anything to eat or drink. Just on what is available -- including the sarcastic quotation marks around the word "gentleman" and her views about less traditional females spoiling things -- my interpretation was that his failing was in simply not offering to PAY for her food.

Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

I don't think I've ever seen a bar/pub that has any food and no waitstaff. We can also eat while sitting at the bar, so in the states unless she was away from the table a lot it would be almost impossible for him to get a prime rib dinner and no-one offered to take her order at some point.

How would you ask someone in the UK "what are you having?" and not pay for their meal?

Why is everyone so fixated on there being a waiter and the woman not speaking up at the time of ordering? They may not have even been in a restaurant. It would be very easy for someone to get up and go to a bar to order food without telling the other person which I presume is what happened here and which would be very rude. The first this woman might have known of it was when the guy's meal arrived at the table.

Do you guys not have pub meals etc? Because that would be a very common scenario here. You order your food at the bar and there is no waiter.

I don't think I've ever seen a bar/pub that has any food and no waitstaff. We can also eat while sitting at the bar, so in the states unless she was away from the table a lot it would be almost impossible for him to get a prime rib dinner and no-one offered to take her order at some point.

How would you ask someone in the UK "what are you having?" and not pay for their meal?

IME, there's a much stronger expectation in the UK that you'll pay your own way in a restaurant, except for sometimes on dates. Certainly, I've never paid for anyone's meal unless a) it was their birthday, b) I was thanking them for something, or c) they were my date.

So in a pub, one person might say, "I'm going to get some food", and the other person would say "Cool, here's a tenner, can you get me a burger?", or "I'll go when you come back" (because someone has to mind the table).

This question really isn’t so far-fetched, at least to me. I was invited out to a Mexican restaurant by Peter, a man I had met the week prior. While we were in the bar area, taking advantage of Happy Hour and enjoying our margaritas and chips& salsa, my date asked the waiter for a menu. Ah, I thought, this is good, we’re going to have dinner. We really are hitting it off.

But for some reason, the waiter took him at his word when he requested A menu. Waiter returned to the table and handed Peter the menu. He took his time perusing the selections, and then proceeded to order a dinner item. I was shocked. Fortunately the waiter did realize that I was there and asked me if I’d like anything too. I replied, “Well, I would like to see a menu first.” Peter looked at me and asked, “Oh, are you really hungry? I hadn’t planned on two entrees.”

I know my left eyebrow shot up in my standard “what the hell?” look, and he sheepishly handed me his menu. I then ordered my dinner. Fortunately, he then proceeded to completely reveal his true self and I knew that we would never be dining together again.

I can't imagine going out/meeting up with anyone and them eating a meal and having a beer without me: either ordering my own food, commenting that I didn't know we were going to eat, flat out stating that this was not the evening I was invited on (assuming I had been INVITED to the restaurant) or something else...

To sit there and watch someone else enjoy prime rib & a beer - well, that's just not happening in my life!

I've been single 15 years plus - I've had lots of first dates (and several repeats) and some men do things differently than we did 40 years ago. If this is not what you had envisioned - speak up !

This question really isn’t so far-fetched, at least to me. I was invited out to a Mexican restaurant by Peter, a man I had met the week prior. While we were in the bar area, taking advantage of Happy Hour and enjoying our margaritas and chips& salsa, my date asked the waiter for a menu. Ah, I thought, this is good, we’re going to have dinner. We really are hitting it off.

But for some reason, the waiter took him at his word when he requested A menu. Waiter returned to the table and handed Peter the menu. He took his time perusing the selections, and then proceeded to order a dinner item. I was shocked. Fortunately the waiter did realize that I was there and asked me if I’d like anything too. I replied, “Well, I would like to see a menu first.” Peter looked at me and asked, “Oh, are you really hungry? I hadn’t planned on two entrees.”

I know my left eyebrow shot up in my standard “what the hell?” look, and he sheepishly handed me his menu. I then ordered my dinner. Fortunately, he then proceeded to completely reveal his true self and I knew that we would never be dining together again.

He also asked me to split the bill. I declined.

Wow. He certainly was a special kind of something something, wasn't he? I can't even imagine!

Logged

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

^^ Yea, he is a fairly minor food-related “celebrity” in SoCal. It obviously has gone not only to his head, but all the way down to toes and back up again. I wasn’t as impressed with him as he thought I should be.

And that's one reason why I think everyone should plan on paying for their own meal, and have it be a nice surprise if the other person picks the tab up! (unless in a specific situation where the understanding is otherwise.) I would have been seriously tempted to be like "did you actually expect me to just sit here and watch you eat?"

My date not asking what I wanted would seem odd to me. I'm from the Gulf Coast of the US where food is a legitimate topic of conversation. We usually discuss the merits of one dish over another, where the seafood was obtained, whether or not the onions are the sweet variety, etc.. As per my mother's instruction, I would probably be the one asking him what he was doing to order. Men pay most of the time down here and it's considerate to order within the same price range. By the time the waiter arrives, we both know what the other person is ordering.

My sister, OTOH, is famous for saying, "Don't you dare pay for me! I'm going to order a really huge steak and I don't want to feel guilty."

I can't imagine as a person in that situation not speaking up for myself and ordering what I wanted. I don't like being ignored or having my presence ignored. I have a talent at catching the servers eye in restaurants.

This question really isn’t so far-fetched, at least to me. I was invited out to a Mexican restaurant by Peter, a man I had met the week prior. While we were in the bar area, taking advantage of Happy Hour and enjoying our margaritas and chips& salsa, my date asked the waiter for a menu. Ah, I thought, this is good, we’re going to have dinner. We really are hitting it off.

But for some reason, the waiter took him at his word when he requested A menu. Waiter returned to the table and handed Peter the menu. He took his time perusing the selections, and then proceeded to order a dinner item. I was shocked. Fortunately the waiter did realize that I was there and asked me if I’d like anything too. I replied, “Well, I would like to see a menu first.” Peter looked at me and asked, “Oh, are you really hungry? I hadn’t planned on two entrees.”

I know my left eyebrow shot up in my standard “what the hell?” look, and he sheepishly handed me his menu. I then ordered my dinner. Fortunately, he then proceeded to completely reveal his true self and I knew that we would never be dining together again.

He also asked me to split the bill. I declined.

At least you found this out quickly- what a clod!

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If wisdom’s ways you wisely seek,Five things observe with care,To whom you speak,Of whom you speak,And how, and when, and where.Caroline Lake Ingalls

I don't think I have enough information about the LW's situation. I mean, yeah, it would be weird if he ordered a meal and ate it in front of her, making absolutely no comment about the fact that she hadn't ordered/wasn't eating anything. But the way she focuses on "I wasn't asked," it makes me think, so just because no one said the magic words, you sat there like a hungry lump and said nothing? Does not really impress me about her.

In a loud restaurant/bar situation I could see a miscommunication happening, or maybe he thought the asking was implied, and then when his food came, and she got nothing, maybe he thought she had some kind of weird thing about food and he shouldn't draw attention to it, and that surely if she wanted food, she would say something. Would make a good scene in a sitcom, I think.

There's something missing in this story. I believe that servers are trained to ensure that they have tended to each person's drink/meal interests. The restaurant wants to ensure that everyone is asked so that they can make the maximum amount of money. The LW must have refused anything when the server asked, because her date didn't offer?!? If I was the date, I would be thinking that she was the strange bird!!!

I also can't imagine attending a dinner date and my date refusing food and there be no discussion about that. I would be concerned that my date didn't approve of the restaurant choice. Maybe he/she has diet restrictions that the restaurant cannot attend to??? Maybe I misunderstood the agreed upon arrangements??? Maybe my date has changed his/her mind about me and is trying to end the date early??? Either way, I would be trying to find a polite way to say, "You didn't want dinner?"

In every first date dining experiences that I have had, the assumption has always been that everyone is eating. The food talk is often part of the ice breaker portion. The only situation when I might assume to not order food might be if the date was set-up to be drinks. "Would you care to get a drink with me at Hometown Pub?" If my date happened to order food in that situation, I would likely match that.