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Outhouse Editor

John Snow wrote:But by giving it a 6 you're saying it's no better than Marvel Apes or Gorilla Man based on your previous reviews. If that's what you really think of it that's fine, it's your opinion, but if not you're being disingenuous by grading it based on preconceived notions rather than actual content. (Not that most everyone here isn't guilty of that from time to time.)

I actually think that Gorilla Man and it are equal in enjoyment level for me. Marvel Apes far exceeded my expectations, so it garnered a higher score than it might have.

Again, the whole work can come out different. I would give the first volume of Incognito a ten, whereas after the events of the second issue of Marvel Apes, I couldn't be bothered to finish the series - effectively giving it a zero. As an issue, I would say Marvel Apes #1 and Incognito: Bad Influences #1 entertained me equally - but again, this is based on my expectations of both.

Outhouse Editor

John Snow wrote:But by giving it a 6 you're saying it's no better than Marvel Apes or Gorilla Man based on your previous reviews. If that's what you really think of it that's fine, it's your opinion, but if not you're being disingenuous by grading it based on preconceived notions rather than actual content. (Not that most everyone here isn't guilty of that from time to time.)

I actually think that Gorilla Man and it are equal in enjoyment level for me. Marvel Apes far exceeded my expectations, so it garnered a higher score than it might have.

Again, the whole work can come out different. I would give the first volume of Incognito a ten, whereas after the events of the second issue of Marvel Apes, I couldn't be bothered to finish the series - effectively giving it a zero. As an issue, I would say Marvel Apes #1 and Incognito: Bad Influences #1 entertained me equally - but again, this is based on my expectations of both.

Outhouse Editor

John Snow wrote:If you're constantly judging things based on expectations you're setting yourself up to fail.

No. We do it all the time. Jude expected Superboy #1 to suck and for him it did, yet he wants to continue reading the book, which means (more than likely) it did not suck to the extent he expected it to.

I try to read each and every book as its own thing, however, certain creators carry a certain expectation level. I expect Brubaker to be a certain caliber everytime. I expect Jeph Loeb to be all over the place... I expect JMS to write an interesting and different story that he never finishes. These expectations are created by having read a large swab of the work that the creators have done.

Even worse for Incognito Bad INfluences, not only did it carry expectations from the creative team, but since it is effectively Issue #7 of a series (as opposed to a true #1) - it carries the baggage from the first six issues. I think we can all agree that it is not as good as any issue of the first series. Why should it score as high?

Outhouse Editor

John Snow wrote:If you're constantly judging things based on expectations you're setting yourself up to fail.

No. We do it all the time. Jude expected Superboy #1 to suck and for him it did, yet he wants to continue reading the book, which means (more than likely) it did not suck to the extent he expected it to.

I try to read each and every book as its own thing, however, certain creators carry a certain expectation level. I expect Brubaker to be a certain caliber everytime. I expect Jeph Loeb to be all over the place... I expect JMS to write an interesting and different story that he never finishes. These expectations are created by having read a large swab of the work that the creators have done.

Even worse for Incognito Bad INfluences, not only did it carry expectations from the creative team, but since it is effectively Issue #7 of a series (as opposed to a true #1) - it carries the baggage from the first six issues. I think we can all agree that it is not as good as any issue of the first series. Why should it score as high?

Outhouse Editor

Furthermore, when someone like Daniel Way, who I dislike his body of work in general, can create a truly entertaining piece of work as he has done in Deadpool, you have to think more of the book, then you would if someone else had written it. Meanwhile, Lapham can create just as entertaining a work with the same character but not create the same level of enthusiasm towards the work.

Outhouse Editor

Furthermore, when someone like Daniel Way, who I dislike his body of work in general, can create a truly entertaining piece of work as he has done in Deadpool, you have to think more of the book, then you would if someone else had written it. Meanwhile, Lapham can create just as entertaining a work with the same character but not create the same level of enthusiasm towards the work.

Rain Partier

Punchy wrote:I never performance score, I just think all the negativity makes me more determined to have a positive outlook, and not be like the rest of the group, it's no fun to have so much negativity.

So, it wouldn't bother you if all the wildly high scores for Superboy made me pitch my score lower to counteract you bunch of goose-stepping Pollyannas.

Rain Partier

Punchy wrote:I never performance score, I just think all the negativity makes me more determined to have a positive outlook, and not be like the rest of the group, it's no fun to have so much negativity.

So, it wouldn't bother you if all the wildly high scores for Superboy made me pitch my score lower to counteract you bunch of goose-stepping Pollyannas.

"Being offended is not to be confused with a state of grace; it’s the occasional price we all pay for living in an open society." -- Ian McEwan

Staff Writer

thefourthman wrote:No. We do it all the time. Jude expected Superboy #1 to suck and for him it did, yet he wants to continue reading the book, which means (more than likely) it did not suck to the extent he expected it to.

I try to read each and every book as its own thing, however, certain creators carry a certain expectation level. I expect Brubaker to be a certain caliber everytime. I expect Jeph Loeb to be all over the place... I expect JMS to write an interesting and different story that he never finishes. These expectations are created by having read a large swab of the work that the creators have done.

Even worse for Incognito Bad INfluences, not only did it carry expectations from the creative team, but since it is effectively Issue #7 of a series (as opposed to a true #1) - it carries the baggage from the first six issues. I think we can all agree that it is not as good as any issue of the first series. Why should it score as high?

What if you were being a "bad boy" and didn't read the first series? How does that play into this?

Staff Writer

thefourthman wrote:No. We do it all the time. Jude expected Superboy #1 to suck and for him it did, yet he wants to continue reading the book, which means (more than likely) it did not suck to the extent he expected it to.

I try to read each and every book as its own thing, however, certain creators carry a certain expectation level. I expect Brubaker to be a certain caliber everytime. I expect Jeph Loeb to be all over the place... I expect JMS to write an interesting and different story that he never finishes. These expectations are created by having read a large swab of the work that the creators have done.

Even worse for Incognito Bad INfluences, not only did it carry expectations from the creative team, but since it is effectively Issue #7 of a series (as opposed to a true #1) - it carries the baggage from the first six issues. I think we can all agree that it is not as good as any issue of the first series. Why should it score as high?

What if you were being a "bad boy" and didn't read the first series? How does that play into this?

Outhouse Editor

SilverPhoenix wrote:What if you were being a "bad boy" and didn't read the first series? How does that play into this?

Then your experience may be quite different. You may well enjoy the intrusive recap stuff and will not be as likely to notice the correlations in the relationship of main character guy and the whores he sleeps with.

Outhouse Editor

SilverPhoenix wrote:What if you were being a "bad boy" and didn't read the first series? How does that play into this?

Then your experience may be quite different. You may well enjoy the intrusive recap stuff and will not be as likely to notice the correlations in the relationship of main character guy and the whores he sleeps with.

******

by ****** » Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:21 pm

thefourthman wrote:No. We do it all the time. Jude expected Superboy #1 to suck and for him it did, yet he wants to continue reading the book, which means (more than likely) it did not suck to the extent he expected it to.

Horrible example. Jude's "review" was a pure anti-DC fauxrage rant that was arbitrary to the comic.

I try to read each and every book as its own thing, however, certain creators carry a certain expectation level. I expect Brubaker to be a certain caliber everytime. I expect Jeph Loeb to be all over the place... I expect JMS to write an interesting and different story that he never finishes. These expectations are created by having read a large swab of the work that the creators have done.

I'm not saying expectations shouldn't be a factor in how a book is reviewed, just that it shouldn't be the primary factor. Just because Cap #X wasn't as good as Secret Avengers #Y doesn't mean that Secret Avengers #Y was on a level with New New Avengers #Z because Brubaker didn't live up to my expectations established with Cap #X. The execution and content was still a fuckton better in SA #Y than NNA #Z. (IMO,obv)

Even worse for Incognito Bad INfluences, not only did it carry expectations from the creative team, but since it is effectively Issue #7 of a series (as opposed to a true #1) - it carries the baggage from the first six issues. I think we can all agree that it is not as good as any issue of the first series. Why should it score as high?

Nope. I liked both #1s about equally, I just liked them for different reasons.

******

thefourthman wrote:No. We do it all the time. Jude expected Superboy #1 to suck and for him it did, yet he wants to continue reading the book, which means (more than likely) it did not suck to the extent he expected it to.

Horrible example. Jude's "review" was a pure anti-DC fauxrage rant that was arbitrary to the comic.

I try to read each and every book as its own thing, however, certain creators carry a certain expectation level. I expect Brubaker to be a certain caliber everytime. I expect Jeph Loeb to be all over the place... I expect JMS to write an interesting and different story that he never finishes. These expectations are created by having read a large swab of the work that the creators have done.

I'm not saying expectations shouldn't be a factor in how a book is reviewed, just that it shouldn't be the primary factor. Just because Cap #X wasn't as good as Secret Avengers #Y doesn't mean that Secret Avengers #Y was on a level with New New Avengers #Z because Brubaker didn't live up to my expectations established with Cap #X. The execution and content was still a fuckton better in SA #Y than NNA #Z. (IMO,obv)

Even worse for Incognito Bad INfluences, not only did it carry expectations from the creative team, but since it is effectively Issue #7 of a series (as opposed to a true #1) - it carries the baggage from the first six issues. I think we can all agree that it is not as good as any issue of the first series. Why should it score as high?

Nope. I liked both #1s about equally, I just liked them for different reasons.