This is a Golden Match for you. What are the average number of years between birth events in your Stevens lines?

The reason I ask is that I am wondering if the standard quanity of probability percentage provided by TIP Generation level be at least the SD of +1 or 68.26% instead of the 50 or 95% that is being utilized normally to?

Just using my own y-dna ancestors, all the way back to my most distant known y-dna ancestor, and including how old I was when my eldest boy was born, I get an average of 28 years per generation.

That's great news. None of those are slow markers either. Maybe, 300-800 yrs. to common ancestor?

I'm guessing 300-350 years. Since we both had ancestors in the Pennsylvania-Ohio area at the same time, I don't think our most recent common ancestor predates the arrival of our line in North America. I'm thinking it goes back to the immigrant or perhaps to a generation or two after the arrival of the immigrant.

Unfortunately, neither of us knows who the immigrant was or where he came from.

If you recall a couple of the earlier posts in this thread, this match and I both have a 35/37 match with a man who spells his surname Stephens and who traces his ancestry to Caswell County, North Carolina, in 1789.

I don't know how that one will turn out at 67 markers, if it ever goes to 67 markers, but his only mismatch with me comes at CDYa/b where he has 37-39 and I have 38-38. That's not much of a mismatch, given that CDY is a fast mutator.

My theory is that our mutual y-dna ancestor arrived in North America from somewhere in the British Isles in the 17th or early 18th century. By the time you get to the ancestors we are able to trace, the line had already been here for several generations and had spread to different places.

I think that in the time frame for the Ulster-Irish emmegration to the U.S. theres a lot of Stevens/Stephens around mid-ulster might be wotht checking out.If you need any local help just ask.Good luck.

I think that in the time frame for the Ulster-Irish emmegration to the U.S. theres a lot of Stevens/Stephens around mid-ulster might be wotht checking out.If you need any local help just ask.Good luck.

Thanks. I have noticed in the records available at Ancestry.com that a lot of the immigrant Stevens/Stephens came from Ireland.

I was born in 1955, so that would place the connection at about 1785. That is probably not too far off, since both of us hit the genealogical brick wall at about 1800 (1804 for me, with the birth of my ggg-grandfather, 1795 for him).

I should mention, in case anyone is that interested and checks Ysearch, that my match is a biological Stevens but does not currently carry that surname. He was born a Stevens. His biological father, a Stevens, was a fighter pilot in WWII who was killed over Formosa (Taiwan) near the end of the war in 1945. My match's mother later remarried. He was subsequently legally adopted by his stepfather.

I was born in 1955, so that would place the connection at about 1785. That is probably not too far off, since both of us hit the genealogical brick wall at about 1800 (1804 for me, with the birth of my ggg-grandfather, 1795 for him).

I should mention, in case anyone is that interested and checks Ysearch, that my match is a biological Stevens but does not currently carry that surname. He was born a Stevens. His biological father, a Stevens, was a fighter pilot in WWII who was killed over Formosa (Taiwan) near the end of the war in 1945. My match's mother later remarried. He was subsequently legally adopted by his stepfather.

Oh, there is also that other match, the 35/37 one who spells his surname Stephens. They can get their y line to 1789 in North Carolina.

I have just been in email contact with my 35/37 Stephens match, the one who traces his ancestry to Caswell County, North Carolina, 1789. The lady in charge of that kit (his daughter) has just ordered an upgrade to 67 markers. (I have that confirmed by FTDNA, too.)

As I mentioned, we differ only at CDYa/b, where he has 37-39 and I have 38-38.

I hope this match holds up.

(Now if I could just get a match with someone who knows who the immigrant was!)

I was going to ask you if you had ever contacted Beddoes (GY2YT) and I am seeing you put him on ySearch. He is very close to you (2 out 67 markers) and he matches VT2R6. Also Webb (T4QRS), WEKT6 and RWAMS are very close to you. WEKT6 is also tested R-L21. Then there are the Prices :YF3FG, 9KCJM (and it would be interesting to test your DYS452 and DYS463: 31 and 22 are unusual in our haplogroup).And so on.

I was going to ask you if you had ever contacted Beddoes (GY2YT) and I am seeing you put him on ySearch. He is very close to you (2 out 67 markers) and he matches VT2R6. Also Webb (T4QRS), WEKT6 and RWAMS are very close to you. WEKT6 is also tested R-L21. Then there are the Prices :YF3FG, 9KCJM (and it would be interesting to test your DYS452 and DYS463: 31 and 22 are unusual in our haplogroup).And so on.

I did communicate with Mr. Beddoes for awhile, off and on. He actually created that Ysearch entry himself. He was born in Worcester, England, but now lives in Canada (if he is still alive). He told me his family has always lived in Shropshire.

He is elderly and not very communicative.

I have good reason to believe he may actually be a Stevens, but I cannot discuss the particulars in a public forum. I don't have any kind of real proof, however.

I was going to ask you if you had ever contacted Beddoes (GY2YT) and I am seeing you put him on ySearch. He is very close to you (2 out 67 markers) and he matches VT2R6. Also Webb (T4QRS), WEKT6 and RWAMS are very close to you. WEKT6 is also tested R-L21. Then there are the Prices :YF3FG, 9KCJM (and it would be interesting to test your DYS452 and DYS463: 31 and 22 are unusual in our haplogroup).And so on.

I was actually aware of the cluster and have been for awhile. I haven't been able to do much with it because most of its members aren't too interested, and most of them, like me, can't get their y-dna lines out of North America.

I don't know how soon I'll find an SNP downstream of L21. There are too many new SNPs for me to be able to afford to test all of them a la carte. I'll have to get lucky and just happen on the right one to test. I plan to try DF23 when it becomes available. If that one fails, then I don't know what or when is next.

It would be nice if one of my cluster mates was a big dna tester, but I am probably the most enthusiastic of the bunch. My enthusiasm has economic limits, however.

That Price (9KCJM) is linked to you is only an hypothesis: but your data are a cluster:DYD390=23DYS385=11,11DYS439=11DYS447=24DYS464=15,16,17,17 (but Price has d=18)

Of course we should test the Prices for R-L21, but I have found on your R-L21 project a Cottrell (not classified) with DYS463=22.

This could mean that you are an ancient subclade of R-L21... the answer when you will be tested for the new SNPs.

I wanted to add something about that cluster. Its only really solid markers are 390=23 and 447=24. The others are all fast movers. Taken all together, they're meaningful, but they are still somewhat unstable.

The problem with 390=23 and 447=24 is that they are both key markers in the U106+ (now Z8+) "Frisian Modal Haplotype", which is why I can only consider really close matches at 37 or 67 markers or guys who have actually tested L21+ as being members of my cluster. An apparent member of the cluster who has 67 markers and 492=12 is probably good, too, since few U106+ guys have 492=12.

It would be nice if the cluster started popping up frequently somewhere in the British Isles.

Rich Stevens (HX9ZF) and Beddoes (GY2YT) have 2 mutations out of 67 markers (CDYa 38 against 37 and DYS413a 21 against 22). Their relatedness cannot be old of centuries.By comparing many closely related haplotypes, we can affirm that CDYa=38 of Stevens and his sons is a recent mutation of his line: also other Stephens (6A342, BNB2P) and other related families maintain 37 (Price-Parris: NF2TH), Webb (RWAMS), Webb (T4QRS). Another Webb (WEKT6), who has 38, has mutated independently amongst the Webb line. In fact who has 37 at CDYa, has also 22 at DYS413a, against the value of 21 of those who have CDYa=38.Unfortunately all these persons aren’t tested for all the same markers, but we can say that the original value of 413a was 22, and only the Rich’s line has mutated to 21.

Thanks, Gioiello. I am afraid the Beddoes connection may remain a mystery for a long long time. Neither I nor he has any other Beddoes matches, if you take my meaning. And he never seemed too keen on trying to ferret out the answer.

My y-dna line has been in North America a long time, at least since before 1804, and Mr. Beddoes was born in England.

If Mr Beddoes was born in England, there is an only explication: he maintains the original values of the Stevens family and these mutations have happened in your American line. But why your line has had two mutations and this Beddoes none? In a so recent time it is all probabilistic and probably your line was more prolific.

There is a Stevens of your family tested by SMGF (see Ysearch 5GCT5). Unfortunately they have released so far only 21 values. Anyway I was able to ascertain that your DYS463 is 24, then the hypothesis I did about a possible DYS452=31 and DYS463=22 falls. Others close to this Stevens have DYS452=31, but a Stephens (VRYDK), who could testify the most ancient values of you line, compared with 75YXB, is really R1b1a2a1a1a4a. Then nothing about your DYS452, but probably it is the modal 30.

Comparing this Stevens with his 21 values, the closest ones are my friend Belgieri and his relatives, and also my line is at a GD of 6. Even though Belgieri is R-U152/L20+, and I am the ancestor R1b1b2a1/L150+, it seems to me that everything indicates also for you the Alpine Region.

That is probably me. I sent in a sample to SMGF way back in 2006. Last time I checked, they had me up to 17 markers, but that was a long time ago. I guess they're up to 21 now. I gave up on SMGF long ago.

It figures that I would get a close match like that, inEurope, - a dream match really - and it would be withsomeone with a different surname, and someone who,while not totally uncooperative, isn't exactlyenthusiastic about it.

I guess things could be worse. I could have no matchesat all.

At least I have a pretty good inkling that my y-dnaancestor probably came from the West Midlands ofEngland or maybe from nearby Wales.

Of course I was joking: if your origins were in Italy, it should have happened thousands of years ago, and you know that my hypotheses about Argiedude and Soncina, with his DYS450=10, haven’t had so far no collaboration.

I can say to you what I have said to my friends in Italy: to reconstruct our modal step by step, because there are mutations around the modal and as time passes the mutations tends to the modal except when they mutate for the tangent and give life to the outliers.I think having reconstructed your haplotype probably of your European ancestor: it seems that Beddoes (GY2YT) holds it intact. Closer to him are the Stevenses (you), the Stephenses and the Webbs: see above Reply#44. A little bit farther they are Price (YF3FG): DYS464d=18 from 17, CDYb=37 from 38 and DYS442=13 from 12; and Stevens (WW4G3): DYS464d=18 from 17, DYS576=16 from 17 and CDYa=35 from? This isn’t a one step mutation, and it could make us change the modal, i.e. to hypothesize that the most ancient value of this marker could be 36 and not 37. This is the way to reconstruct a modal of each line. Of course we must reconstruct all the intermediate lines.On the line of Price (YF3FG) we have Price–Parris(NF2TH), who presupposes Price: mutations: DYS464d=18 from 17, CDYb=39 from 38, DYS442=13 from 12, DYS557=16. Is this a mutation from 17 or is it the ancient value of your line? Only other intermediate lines could make us to respond.You know that I have always criticized the way to think to the modal like the most common values. If we don’t consider the mutations around the modal that could have happened, we really falsify their true number and the MRCA is at least 2 or 3 times younger.

The fact that you haven’t so far found a close match in Europe, in spit of the huge number of British tested, can mean only one thing: that your line was marginal, probably from the most ancient Britons arrived to the British Isles, and, like many times happens, it is present mostly amongst the descendents of migrants rather than in the fatherland. Many Italian surnames, almost rare, are disappeared in Italy but are present in South America or elsewhere. The same with DNA. Of course some Spaniards, like Yturralde (WH9TB) and Carretero (DVKVX), should be tested for more markers, because the other solution is that your ancestor was someone come from elsewhere. I don’t think to a Roman, being this haplogroup so rare in Italy, but Spain could be a possibility.