I am having difficulty in identifying some of the s/c Altas racing in the early post-war years.
An article by Graham Gould in the short-lived Historic Motor Racing is not of big help for that period, although he clearly identifies the six s/c Altas built in 1935/36 and the first ifs car built in 1937/38.
Of these after the war, in 1946/47 in particular, 52S (1.5L) was owned by P.J. Binns and raced by Crossley at Gransden and Douglas in 1947; 53S (2L) was owned by Chas Mortimer in 1946 and raced at Gransden in 1946; 61IS is the Abecassis car raced at Gransden Geneva Salon in 1946.
Now my questions:
1) Binns’ car is identified as the 1935 red ex-Cormack car (so 52S). Why is it given c/n 62IS in Sheldon? Misprint or did it get new ifs suspension and was renumbered?
2) Watson raced at Bern, Gransden, Ulster and Douglas in 1947 a newly bodied 1.5L car much anticipating the shape of the GP Alta. It had the same ifs as 61IS, which were very particular. Was it 61IS rebodied or a different car? Was it Cowell’s 1946 car, [which was a 2L BTW, see below]? Why is it given c/n 69IS by Sheldon? Was it perhaps a car assembled postwar? Taylor was slowly working at the GP Alta, why then built a new car on pre-war specs?
3) The car raced by Cowell in 1946 was not the sports car raced by Cowell in 1939 – sold to Heath – but a 2L car ex-Mary Grosvernor with central seat and, possibly ifs. Which one of the pre-war cars was this?
4) A N. Carr raced a 2L s/c Alta during 1948. From the only photo I have this could be either the Abecassis’ car or the 1946 Cowell car. Any idea? Equivalently what’s the story of the Abecassis car soon after 1946 (it still exists today)?
5) A Williams raced a s/c 1.5 Alta during 1946/1947. I have a photo that identifies it very well, in the sense of a very peculiar body. This was supposedly an ex-Hugh Hunter car. Any idea of c/n?

While people are looking up their Alta information, if you come across any data regarding the Alta-Jaguar that raced in Kenya in the 50's and 60's I'd be grateful if you could post it. (As I only want the info to satisfy my curiosity, don't bust a gut looking)

All I can remember was that it was a red, cycle winged sports car. I suppose it was actually a dual-purpose body like the HW-Alta and early HWM where you could remove the wings and run in the racing car class.

This was one of my favourite cars and I would love to know what happened to it.

Also, mention was made on the Canadian Motor Sport History Group a little while back of Tom Shadbolt's single-seater Alta, which ran at Pikes Peak in the early 50s, fitted with a Mercury flathead. Tom Johnson posted a picture of it at the time, but it's not stored on the forum, so I can't post it here. It was allegedly originally a "pre-War Alta GP car", which of course is impossible, since Alta never built a car to a pre-War GP Formula. So what was it originally? Is it a re-engined Voiturette or 2.0 litre single-seater and/or a rebodied sports car?

Here’s my attempt at identifying the Alta single-seaters which raced in the early postwar period

Early offset cars•Cormack’s car was 52S, which went to Noel Carr in 1946, then Crossley 1947•Mortimer raced 53S 1946•Gaze had 56S (ex-Wakefield and Dorothy Stanley-Turner) in 1946, then took it to Australia•58S had been converted to independent suspension before the war and in 1946 was re-engined with postwar 2-lite s/c engine - driven by Geoffrey Taylor in sprints, then in 1948 Jack Norris, who used as the basis for a special

Later independent cars•61IS raced by Abecassis again 1947, then new owner G F Sleight at Prescott that year (and apparently not thereafter)•62IS (ex-Hunter) J H Williams 1946. I think the published 1947 Crossley reference is a mistake•67IS (ex-Beadle) - Noel Carr from 1946•69IS (new to Lady Mary Grosvenor 1939 but AFAIK not used) rebodied - Cowell and Watson from 1946

AFAIK, all the above cars, with one exception, exist today. Car 69IS disappeared in the ’50s but has recently been ‘re-created’ with a new chassis and body and a load of parts that Lady Mary Grosvenor had had.

The Alta that raced in Kenya was the sportscar which Phil Scragg built from the first postwar GP car, GP1. It returned to the UK 30 years ago and raced a few times, still as a sportscar, in the early 1990s (The Donington Collection car of the same number is a replica using some parts from the original)

I can’t think what the North American car was based on - possibly one of the 1951/52 F2 cars. Nor, before anyone asks, can I identify the Chrysler-powered car which raced in Argentina in 1957

Under the floor boards in my old house, I found the original 1940s newspaper, which contained information on the release of the Grand Prix Alta. When I find it (I haven't seen it in months, and haven't a clue where it is!!!), I will scan it for people.

I have a few gaps in my Alta histories which someone may be able to fill in for me ;

Was not 52S the car that spent some 20 or so years in New Zealand ?

I had always thought that 691S was the car that Gib Barrett had brought to Australia in time for the 1956 Olympic GP and, I thought was still in the York Motor Museum in West Australia, it was reputed to be the ex Cowell car, do we now have two cars bearing this number ?

Can anyone tell me the UK history and chassis number of the car that Englishman, Alan Sinclair, who John Medley has written about on this forum, brought to Australia in 1938 and went on to become famous as the Ted Gray Alta Ford V8, I think Graeme Lowe may have ended up with the remains.

How many sports Altas were built pre war, we had three of the two litre cars in Australia until a UK " raid " a few years ago, 54S, 70 ( ? ), and a car with a single seater body raced in Historics here in the early eighties by a chap named Suttcliffe.

We also had here the ex Whitehead F2 car, fitted here with a Holden motor, I think it's number was F2/5, does anyone know where it is now.

I have a few gaps in my Alta histories which someone may be able to fill in for meMe too, but I may be able to help with some of yours. Unfortunately, a lot of my info is getting a bit dated

Was not 52S the car that spent some 20 or so years in New Zealand?Yes - lived there from 1953 till the 1980s

I had always thought that 691S was the car that Gib Barrett had brought to Australia in time for the 1956 Olympic GP and, I thought was still in the York Motor Museum in West Australia, it was reputed to be the ex Cowell car, do we now have two cars bearing this number? I don’t think I ever knew which car Barrett had. The timing is certainly perfect for British Alta-spotters believing 69IS “disappeared” after 1955

Can anyone tell me the UK history and chassis number of the car that Englishman, Alan Sinclair, who John Medley has written about on this forum, brought to Australia in 1938 and went on to become famous as the Ted Gray Alta Ford V8, I think Graeme Lowe may have ended up with the remains. Don’t know a number, only that is was said to be the ex-Winterbottom car

How many sports Altas were built pre war, we had three of the two litre cars in Australia until a UK " raid " a few years ago, 54S, 70 ( ? ), and a car with a single seater body raced in Historics here in the early eighties by a chap named Suttcliffe. Seven 1100s and six 1500s. Four of the latter converted to 2-litres•Tony Gaze took 53S and 63S to Australia in the 1940s. 53S was still there in 1986, but 63S returned to the UK in the 1990s, and is with John Rushton•55S also went to Australia, and was with Graeme Lowe in 1986. It had apparently been stolen at some stage, though whether that was in the UK or Oz I don’t know•66S went to Australia in the 1970s, and was recently brought back by John Rushton•Michael Bishop took 70N to Australia in 1963, and still owned it 1986•I don’t know which of these was the Sutcliffe car

Total pre-war single-seater production, while we're at it. was six early offset cars and four all-independent models

We also had here the ex Whitehead F2 car, fitted here with a Holden motor, I think it's number was F2/5, does anyone know where it is now. It returned to the UK in, I think, the 1970s, and was refitted with an Alta engine. It has been owned by Martin Grant Peterkin since 1976, and for the past ten years or so has been prepared and driven ( to excellent effect) in historic events by Ian Nuthall. Has probably been the most raced UK historic car in that period

Yes I did post a photo of the Roy Shadbolt Alta on the Canadian Motor Sport History Group Forum ( www.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmshg ). I don't know a lot about the car and I may well have described it incorrectly. I do know it was an Alta and am reasonably certain it was pre-war. Shadbolt fitted it with a Mercury (Ford) V8 motor and ran it on alcohol. The photo was actually from the 1952 Grouse mountain Hill Climb here in Vancouver. It did run at Pikes Peak in 1950 and 1951.

It (in bits) is currently in the hands of well known and respected local car restoration expert Ed Arnold who has the original motor and supercharger.

As I have not yet solved the mystery of posting photos on this forum, if someone wants to email me at tomjohnston@shaw.ca I can email the photo in question on along with a few newer ones

Thanks, David, that fills in some gaps and will give me something to procrastinate over.

It would seem likely that the Sutcliffe car was 66S as the timing of it's return to UK fits.

Graeme Lowe told me some years ago that the car, 55S, that he bought in UK he actually had to pay for twice, once from the person from whom he bought it and then from the owner who had apparently had it " stolen " from him, this is probably the car which he finished rebuilding about ten or so years ago and he showed me a photo of it at that time.

I had three two seater sports cars but the championship was cancelled so I kept the Tony Gaze car and sold the other two to Spain and France.The Gaze car being the most historic having had four owners and stored in Ballerat for about fifty years with all the original parts intact.The car was rebuilt by Ian Polson and has proven to be one of the fastest proper cars in Europe .The problem in U.K. especially,is that the majority of races are for last weeks specials rather than proper cars.Ian will be in Aus.for the Philip Island race and knows most of the Alta chassis nos.Does anyone require any further info.as we do have good historys of the cars.The main part of my collection are works London Talbots but that is another thread.

Thanks for the confirmation, John
I didn't think I'd seen a red one lately, but I don't trust my memory as much as I used to
Look forward to seeing them out again next year - no doubt with several Talbot 105s for company

John, a couple of us Alta nuts here in Australia would be very keen to see a brief history and chassis number record of as many Altas as you have the information for, so if you could post it we would be most appreciative.
We also look forward to seeing you or Ian at Phillip Island in February, I'll be racing there in my Cooper, and there promises to be a quality field of pre sixties cars.

I had been hoping for a bit more information to emerge on this thread but as it hasn't perhaps I could raise a couple of questions with the experts.

David McKinney's post says there were seven 1100cc and six 1500/2000 sports Altas. There was an Alta display at the April 2003 VSCC Silverstone and the notes I took identify eight what I will call "first series" cars -
10 (stated to be first Alta and kept to 1936 as development car)
13 KXD 666 '33 Le Mans car
14 GX 2281
16 KJ 8421 (1500cc)
20 ECP 903
21 PS 8673
24 AER 884
25 DJP 929
This does give 7 1100s but we don't appear to "need" no. 16 to account for 6 1500/2000s. Also, why all the gaps in the numbering?

I found a note ( source unknown) that Geoffrey Taylor built 12 1074cc engines, 9 of these in his early small sports cars. One of the " engines only" engines was used briefly in his Horton Special by RT Horton, and numbered 13.

Having read and enjoyed the Alta thread on this page. I though it may be of interest to pass on the information we have gained through working on the three Alta'a owned by John Ruston namely 63s, 64s and 66s. These all being 2 litre supercharged sports cars.

63s First owned by C.J.D Pink who raced it up to the start of the war. When Pink was posted overseas the car was bought by John Heath. When the war ended Heath and his now partner in H.W. Motors George Abecassis proceeded to win just about every event open to sportscars in the UK in the immediate post war period. The Alta proving ideally suited to the short circuit races and hillclimbs which predominated during this period holding the sports car record at Prescott hillclmb and setting fastest sports car time at the Elstree speed trial among other succeses. In 1947 it was sold to Tony Gaze who having used it succesfully in several British events. There then appears a gap in its history until Gaze imported it to his native austalia in 1949 where he continued its successful career by breaking the sports car record at Rob Roy hillclimb among other succeses. Gaze sold the car in 1951 to a Mr Williams who rapidly passed it on to John Prowse. Prowse advertised it in Australian Motor Sport and sold it to to John Wotherspoon in 1952. Wotherspoon used the car intermittently during the next forty eight years until his death. In 2000 it was bought by John Ruston. By this stage the car required a complete rebuild although it was very complete and original. We carried out this rebuild for John Ruston, completing it in 2002. Since then it has been raced extensively, its most prominent success being an easy win in the pre war sports car race at the BRDC 50th anniversary meeting in 2003. It made fastest lap in the pre1940 race at The
Oldtimer Grand Prix at the Nurburgring in 2003, but retired with overheating problems due to a faulty radiator. By 2003 its formidable reputation caused it to be excluded from the pre 1940 race at the Nurburgring in 2003 so it was entered instead in the post war drum braked sports car race where it finished well up.

64s This is the only left hand drive Alta ever built being built new to the order of a German, Franz Kitzervan. We have not been able to find any reference to it being used in competition during his ownership. Shortly after the second world war we believe it was imported in to America where it stayed passing through a number of hands until being bought by John Ruston in 2000. We carried out a complete rebuild on this car for him after which it was succesfully raced and then sold to Jose Fernandez.

66s Sold new to K. Gammon who ran it at venues such as Lewes and Crystal Palace. In 1939 it was sold to S.Swan ( of Swan Hunter shipyard ) who kept it for some years until passing it on to John Brown in 1954. Brown raced the car in Border regions club events with some success. The car then went through a succesion of owners 1961 J Grice, 1961 P Bevis, 1962 Voiche Mushek (who took it over to the U.S.A) 1971 Carleton Coolidge, 1978 Dan Margulies (U.K), 1981 J.C.T. Hewison (Australia), 1983 M. Sutcliffe. Sutcliffe owned the car until 2000 when he passed it on to John Ruston who used it for several years before selling it to Pierre Honniger.

CAN CONFIRM IAN POLSON HAS MORE INFO ON EJJ703 CERTAIN PEOPLE THINK IT WAS BASIS OF HWM INCORRECT THAT WAS EOY8 SINCE PULLED APART AND MOSTLY LOST. THE ENGINES OF THE TWO CARS WERE INTERCHANGED WHEN TONY GAZE PURCHED THE CAR EJJ703

Having just chanced on this thread, EOY 8 chassis#54, was converted to IFS with a HWM style body in 1949 and sold by HWM to J.Walton.
Thereafter it was sold to Bobby Pattenden who re registered it as EVG 436. It was also owned by Sir john Onslow and Brian Epstein in the 1950s. In 1959 it was purchased by Peter Mew who also owned #70 at the time(currently owned by Mike Bishop), however he wrapped it round a tree in 1960 and sold the remains in November 1961 to someone in the Midlands. He also did a part exchange of #70 with Chiltern Cars for a HWM MXK272
What has confused people in the past, is that #63 the Gaze car at one time had the cylinder head/engine from #54.
Duncan Rabagaliati has a mound of information on Alta's and has spoken about writting a book on the marque when he finds enough time.

I too had just seen this Alta thread. I note that no mention has been made of the Gordon Watson Formula 2 car, the second built, I believe. It resides in Scotland and is owned by former 2 litre Chevron and Brabham F3 racer Andrew Fletcher. It is kept in a temperature controlled garage alongside his B16 CHevron and is alive and well.

During the late 50s, there was a trucking business at the end of my road called Falce transport, the younger brother Eric wanted to get into racing and I went with him to a scrapyard in Barking where we picked up a semi derelict sports racing car with full width bodywork, rather like a HWM that he said was an Alta. The yard was also full of scrap Merlins!
We took it back to his yard where he fitted an American V8 ( Studebaker) . He raced it a few times at Brands. He later rebuilt a crashed E type which he raced with some success at Brands again , often against Warren Pierce .( Laurence Pierce's father .
I think I can safely say that the car in question is MBP77. There is photo of a sports Alta in a Gold Seal Cars advert in the May 1962 issue of Motor sport, the registration number showing two digits 77. The car was fitted with a Studebaker V8. I have scanned the advert but cannot find the lead to attach the photo to this post.
The current owner lives in Germany and has had it beatifuly restored - with Jaguar engine and it has been at a couple of Goodwoods

Would it be possible to have a similar list on a "where are they now" theme?

I saw what purported to be Chassis 69 (the Lady Mary Grosvenor single seater) a few years ago, but understood that it might be a recreation rather than a rebuild. It would certainly be interesting to know the full story of this one!

#24 - that should be P N Whitehead Peter Whitehead, of course - later an ERA and Ferrari exponent.

#58 - Not FD Boyle, but Frank O'Boyle, the Irish driver. So perhaps not delivered, but collected? I've come across at least one instance in period of an Irish driver crossing the water to collect a new car and taking in a British event or two on the way back.

RAP is correct, it should be Gammon. On the issue of current owners, that is a little more difficult so I will make a start and maybe others can fill in the gaps.
1100cc
#10. Sold by D. Baldcock via Bonhams at Goodwood Auction on June 24, 2005.
#14. Currently in Germany and for sale according to various publications.
#25. Currently owned by G. Lowe in Australia
1500cc & 2000cc
#52. Owned by D. Cohen in Vancouver, Canada
#53. Sold by Coys in July 1998, currently in USA.
#55. Currently in Australia undregoing total restoration by G. Lowe
#56. Sold by auction in April 2002 to Tom Price?, in USA
#57. Owned by Ed. Arnold in Vancouver,Canada. Last saw it in pieces in 1998.
#58. Became the Norris Special. In UK.
#59. Disappeared in WWII. My guess frame used for Alta streamliner MPB77. Currently owned by Wolfgang Techel in Germany
#61. In existence in UK.
#62. Owned by P. Redman in UK.
#63. Owned by J. Ruston. #64. Owned by J.M.Fernandez in Spain
#66. Owned?, by P. Honneger in France
#67. Owned by D. Baldcock in UK. #69. Displayed at Silverstone 2003, owned by ??
#70. Owned by M.Bishop in Australia.

As far as I am aware #60, was never allocated.

In context to where this thread started, I have a photo of a L.H.Davenport driving a 1.5L Alta at Prescott on May 11, 1947. No 74, with dual rear wheels.

On another issue, D.S. Jenkinson I believe kept a very detailed diary during WWII. I have read somewhere that he rescued Cowell's #54 (EOY 8) from abondment during the war. I understand Doug Nye received all DSJs paperwork after he passed away, if this included his diaries, I would be most interested to read about this rescue.

Vitesse2 is correct. I have: Sold to frank O Boyle, Doyles Motors, Dublin. Since #57 was delivered 0n May 21, 1936 and #59 on Sept 10, 1936, #58 must have been delivered sometime inbetween. It was converted to Alta type IFS in 1939 and after the war was used by Geoff Taylor in Hillclimbs and Speed Trials, until sold to John Norris to become the Norris Special.
ps: if I could find the browse button I could attach a few photos!!

David Woodhouse, a designer for FoMoCo currently working in California, has recently purchased TWO Altas, one in South America and the other ???
David also owns a Dolphin FJ, a Cooper F3 and has just purchased a Cooper T71 F2 car fitted with an SCA.
I do not know which Altas he has but both are open-wheel cars.