The fat ass style runs are a great way to go. Although you tend to need some type of investment in the local community to find out about them. More of a reason to get involved in the local running scene I guess.

Yes, servitude, placing conditions on people because of their social standing is having power over them.
It's not the same as giving someone a choice or making concessions.

I'm not a political man but I understand the struggle of poverty, the importance of self esteem and community.

I don't believe in hierarchies just equality and fairness for everyone.

Why is it that people can happily debate over the folly of ill designed shoes and the damage they can cause
but when other issues surface that are just as important to the health of a community they are demonized or swept away.
Maybe bandits are the next barefoot runners, who knows i've never has the chance to talk to one.

I wouldn't have the first idea of how to organize a race, but if i did i know it wouldn't be exclusive and everyone would be encouraged to tickle each other before the start.

You know, why does modern society seem to think everyone should be equal? That's a fairy tale. Nobody deserves a handout. Some people are naturally good runners, some have to work at it, and some are just plain terrible. Some people are good at athletic things in general, some are not. Those that are good at certain things will go farther than those that aren't in that particular field. If you don't make enough money, that's not on your neighbor or community to help you out, that's on yourself to find a way out. If I could climb my way out of the gutter, so can the next person. I grew up in a physically and mentally abusive home where we were dirt poor and barely had a roof over our heads and barely had food on the table, sometimes we didnt. I lived in the streets when I was 16 years old, worked a full time job, plus went to school in order to get myself out of that abusive house. It took my own perseverance and desire to make a change and accept the fact that if I wanted something bad enough I had to find a way to earn it.

Does anybody think about what happens if you get hurt while out on the course? The paramedics that are out on the course that the race paid for, are going to be the ones that treat you. It's ridiculous and selfish that this is even a conversation. If you want something bad enough, go get it the right way instead of stealing it, because that's exactly what your doing if you bandit a race.

The fat ass style runs are a great way to go. Although you tend to need some type of investment in the local community to find out about them. More of a reason to get involved in the local running scene I guess.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

Fat ass runs don't have to be Ultras and all the ones I've done have been a blast.

The fat ass style runs are a great way to go. Although you tend to need some type of investment in the local community to find out about them. More of a reason to get involved in the local running scene I guess.

You know, why does modern society seem to think everyone should be equal? That's a fairy tale. Nobody deserves a handout. Some people are naturally good runners, some have to work at it, and some are just plain terrible. Some people are good at athletic things in general, some are not. Those that are good at certain things will go farther than those that aren't in that particular field. If you don't make enough money, that's not on your neighbor or community to help you out, that's on yourself to find a way out. If I could climb my way out of the gutter, so can the next person. I grew up in a physically and mentally abusive home where we were dirt poor and barely had a roof over our heads and barely had food on the table, sometimes we didnt. I lived in the streets when I was 16 years old, worked a full time job, plus went to school in order to get myself out of that abusive house. It took my own perseverance and desire to make a change and accept the fact that if I wanted something bad enough I had to find a way to earn it..

I respect you for your honesty Nick, but I don't agree with you or feel sorry for you. I don't see the less well off or unfortunate as victims in any way.
I don't believe in handouts or making people dependent, i just see something inherently wrong when finance prevents people from running in an organized event.
I notice when communities are torn apart and homes are bulldozed to make way for the next latest and greatest sports stadium and spectacle.
Maybe speaking up for equality,fairness and community is finding a way out, for me at least
I'll burn my soapbox now, it's hard have a general discussion when things are personalized and I'm getting scared of the like button.

I respect you for your honesty Nick, but I don't agree with you or feel sorry for you. I don't see the less well off or unfortunate as victims in any way.
I don't believe in handouts or making people dependent, i just see something inherently wrong when finance prevents people from running in an organized event.
I notice when communities are torn apart and homes are bulldozed to make way for the next latest and greatest sports stadium and spectacle.
Maybe speaking up for equality,fairness and community is finding a way out, for me at least
I'll burn my soapbox now, it's hard have a general discussion when things are personalized and I'm getting scared of the like button.

Hey I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me. I made my way out and am damn proud of it. We can agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. I probably shouldn't have responded in the first place because I do have strong feelings on this. I do want to ask, if someone doesn't have the finances for a mercedes should they just be able to go out and take one? Same exact concept even though the prices are different.

Hey I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me. I made my way out and am damn proud of it. We can agree to disagree, nothing wrong with that. I probably shouldn't have responded in the first place because I do have strong feelings on this. I do want to ask, if someone doesn't have the finances for a mercedes should they just be able to go out and take one? Same exact concept even though the prices are different.

In my view it's not the same thing, one is about wanting to own something the other is about being a part of something with equal standing.
One person can be wealthy in monetary terms and another not so, but on the running track they can be equals as long as access is fair for everyone.

But in my view, the access is fair. They even give those with lesser means or whom are cheap an alternate way in a lot of times. A lot of races even charge less if you sign up early. Stealing is stealing in my mind, no matter how small it is. In any case, I think where we don't see eye to eye is that you don't view a race as a commodity. In my opinion, if it costs the organizers money to set up the race and to cover the permits and aid stations, they have every right to pass off the costs to the racers. This does in fact make it a commodity. If people don't like being charged to race, they can organize races themselves with their own money and can eat those costs all by themselves. There's a reason those don't happen much, because people can't or won't afford this.

Also, I used to think that one's success was dependent on one's skills, hard work, etc. Over the years, I've since learned that is not entirely so. These things only get you so far. Sometimes, the best, brightest, nicest person doesn't get the job or promotion, etc. Life isn't always fair. (I'm not complaining. I have a good job and have been fortunate in many ways.) The disadvantaged have lots of barriers, systemic and otherwise. The fact that zip codes can predict life expectancy is an indication of how entrenched these barriers can be.

So the best suggestion for the less well off in society is to usher them into servitude before they can run.

Thanks for introducing me to another point of view. What if the volunteer runner received acknowledgement on the race website, such as on a list of volunteers, similar to the acknowledgement page for the corporate sponsors?

if someone doesn't have the finances for a mercedes should they just be able to go out and take one?

I don't begrudge anyone who drives a Mercedes. As a product, Mercedes are designed to be exclusionary. However, they are not necessarily the fastest, best handling, or safest car. Just as a Rolex isn't necessarily designed to displayed time, but rather wealth.

(As an aside, when replacing my 13yo Toyota, I decided that my main priority was safety. Orlando has been ranked as the most dangerous city in the US for driving! I improved my driving habits and bought a used Volvo, though it was still fairly pricey. Now that I drive a Volvo, I don't necessarily feel that I am more or less deserving of dying in an auto accident, than someone in a 13yo Toyota!)

A marathon is a different product altogether than a car. It does have a different purpose, but I'm not exactly suggesting that they be free. In a society with finite resources, someone pays. As a society, people decide where their tax dollars go: safe streets, food, shelter, schools, etc. I'm guessing that most people would agree that free marathons rank below several other priorities. However, we are free to organize our own BRS runs!

But in my view, the access is fair. They even give those with lesser means or whom are cheap an alternate way in a lot of times. A lot of races even charge less if you sign up early. Stealing is stealing in my mind, no matter how small it is. In any case, I think where we don't see eye to eye is that you don't view a race as a commodity. In my opinion, if it costs the organizers money to set up the race and to cover the permits and aid stations, they have every right to pass off the costs to the racers. This does in fact make it a commodity. If people don't like being charged to race, they can organize races themselves with their own money and can eat those costs all by themselves. There's a reason those don't happen much, because people can't or won't afford this.

Stealing is being confused with the right to protest and make a stand for what you believe is right and fair.
Giving people ultimatums like 'if you don't like it get out of our space' is not and argument it's an ultimatum.
You just can't put forward an argument with such conditions in place, it just cuts everything off.
I am just so sad that some people and families can't afford to run together in an large organized event.
That this is the future for our children, these are the values that are becoming acceptable.
Where peoples convictions are judged by a like button on smart phones. I must be getting old.

That was an interesting read. As you know, Canis lupus familiaris acts quite differently from Canis lupus, and the different breeds have different personalities. I guess things don't necessarily have to be vastly genetically different to behave differently. Funny how some people are always looking to amplify any differences amongst one another.