Originally posted by queeq And Yoda says: "only a fully trained Jedi Knight, with the Force as his ally, will conquer Vader. And the Emperor." Yet, Luke defeats Vader. So in OT terms it is possible to be great as a Jedi without all that silly remote fighting as kids with Millennium Falcon helmets.

You misunderstand, I think. I never said it was impossible to produce great Jedi the way you're describing. I just pointed out that the recruitment/training methods of the PT...callused as they seemed...still worked very well in the long run, and never really failed them. The Jedi Order flourished. Top-notch Jedi arose. Etc.

So from an in-universe POV, said methods served their purpose wonderfully--our personal views of right or wrong do not change this fact. That's all I'm saying.

__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Given that all the "trained-from-birth" Jedi in the prequels were functionally retarded, and the one trained from adolescence grew up to be a mass-murdering psychopath who super easily fell to the Dark Side...

And the 20-something Jedi we see trained in the OT successfully resisted the Dark Side and redeemed said mass murderer...

I'm gonna go with the notion that Obi-Wan realized what a batshit crazy idea it is to brainwash babies and make them join your magic cult.

__________________Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

There were hundreds(possibly thousands) of Jedi in the PT-era. Not sure what type of standards you have, but you can't expect every one of them to be Yoda. The PT was full of garbage, that's for sure(Lucas dropped the ball hard)--but that doesn't mean the Order as a whole wasn't flourishing. It absolutely was. So yes, their methods were definitely successful in that regard.

And that '20-something Jedi' was Luke Skywalker who, by GL's own accord, was essentially bred to be everything that Anakin was not... And we saw where his own recruitment/training methods got him post-RotJ.

__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Originally posted by Galan007 So from an in-universe POV, said methods served their purpose wonderfully--our personal views of right or wrong do not change this fact. That's all I'm saying.

Well, the in-universe of SW is contradictory on many counts. It's a universe that's been developed as they made the films. And Lucas changed his mind all the time.

Even though I love SW, as geofiction it's not as well developed as Middle Earth or the Dune universe. Therefor the in-universe logic is not really an argument from me. Because often it doesn't make much sense.

You're right. Not much about SW makes sense from an outside perspective(especially where the PT is concerned.)

I'm just trying to stay in-line with the context presented to us, is all. If we don't, we could probably sit here and sideline QB the films all day long, lol.

__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Originally posted by Galan007 There were hundreds(possibly thousands) of Jedi in the PT-era. Not sure what type of standards you have, but you can't expect every one of them to be Yoda. The PT was full of garbage, that's for sure(Lucas dropped the ball hard)--but that doesn't mean the Order as a whole wasn't flourishing. It absolutely was. So yes, their methods were definitely successful in that regard.

Did you know wheat is one of the most successful species that ever lived? It's flourishing, but that doesn't make it smart. Which is something you need to be if you're a Jedi Order, "guardians of peace and justice."

The PT Jedi were numerous and plentiful, and got the ever-loving shit murdered out of them by one of the most sinister villains you could put a fake smile over. The PT Jedi apparently didn't know how to not create retarded Jedi. Retarded if trained from birth, psychotic and deranged if trained from 9.

Originally posted by Galan007 And that '20-something Jedi' was Luke Skywalker who, by GL's own accord, was essentially bred to be everything that Anakin was not... And we saw where his own recruitment/training methods got him post-RotJ.

__________________Recently Produced and Distributed Young but High-Ranking Political Figure of Royal Ancestry within the Modern American Town Affectionately Referred To as Bel-Air.

So if the Jedi Order's regimen during the PT was to only begin training force-sensitives when they were 20-something, you think Palpatine's machinations/Order 666 would have been less successful? You think changing the age at which a Jedi's training began would have entirely changed how all the events played out in the films, thereby altering GL's vision? Nonsense.

Simply put: the PT Jedi were 'neutered' when they had to be, for the sake of the plot. Not because PT Jedi were trained poorly/incorrectly from an in-universe POV. You're injecting too much of your own PT discontent into this discussion, me thinks.

__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Lol I care about "GL's vision"? I care about what I see onscreen. Retarded/evil PT Jedi.

If training from infancy at worst or childhood at best is what leads to the ridiculous, stupid, dumbass PT Jedi, then I say f*ck that. Go with older training. Onscreen we've seen that one actually work properly. Luke defeats the Dark Side, resists temptation, and redeems a Sith Lord. Alot more than what Yoda, Mace, Qui-Gon and the gang ever did. But they did nothing other than fail and/or die so...

Originally posted by Galan007
Simply put: the PT Jedi were 'neutered' when they had to be, ***for the sake of the plot***. Not because PT Jedi were trained poorly/incorrectly from an in-universe POV. You're injecting too much of your own PT discontent into this discussion, me thinks.

^ Lol. I like how you cherry-picked a few portions of my post, took those excerpts wildly out of context, and then completely dodged the initial question.

Not playing that game.

__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

Originally posted by Galan007 So if the Jedi Order's regimen during the PT was to only begin training force-sensitives when they were 20-something, you think Palpatine's machinations/Order 666 would have been less successful? You think changing the age at which a Jedi's training began would have entirely changed how all the events played out in the films, thereby altering GL's vision? Nonsense.

Simply put: the PT Jedi were 'neutered' when they had to be, for the sake of the plot. Not because PT Jedi were trained poorly/incorrectly from an in-universe POV. You're injecting too much of your own PT discontent into this discussion, me thinks.

Originally posted by Galan007 So if the Jedi Order's regimen during the PT was to only begin training force-sensitives when they were 20-something, you think Palpatine's machinations/Order 666 would have been less successful?

But yeah, keep trying to move goalposts with your faux-intellectual banter. I'm still not going to play that game.

__________________

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."

"The Grand Admiral was smart and subtle, but never used his brilliance to show up or humiliate anyone.
He demanded results, but never perfection, and had amazing stores of patience for those who were truly working to their fullest ability.
It was a pity Thrawn's style of leadership hadn't spread through the rest of the navy.
If that happened, he suspected, the Empire would stand forever."