Posted
by
michael
on Saturday October 18, 2003 @09:30PM
from the not-so-tough dept.

Anonymous Howard writes "For those of you who haven't heard about Panasonic's Toughbook W2, this hard to find laptop not only looks awesome but packs a serious punch for its size. Weighing in at 2.8 pounds with a 12.1" screen, this P4-M 900 Centrino based laptop is impressive. The drawback is its max memory support is only 512MB. However I think the laptop is absolutely gorgeous. Does anyone have any experience with one of these? Designtechnica gave it a 7 in their review. I tend to believe that 512MB of ram is a pretty limiting factor however."

This is not such a limiting factor. 512 Megs of RAM is far more than I need for the kind of work I would want to do on an ultralight with a mear 12" screan. I.e. That's not where I play games or edit graphics or rip DVDs. A desktop is used for that. Or a true desktop replacment like the 9 lb Dell Inspiron 8200 I am typing this on.

Anybody normal. What if I have 2 instances of Visual Studio open with one in debug mode. Then I have 2 VMWare sessions running because I'm testing a client install that I don't want to pollute my development environment. Oh, and don't forget that I have Mozilla open, iTunes streaming music, SQL Enterprise Manager open, Outlook open, etc.

This would be a great laptop for the sales person on the road or a college student primarily doing research and papers, but those of us with more stringent demands whine t

Personally 256MB is fine for a laptop if it really is just used as a portable. You should (if using 2k/XP) remove/disable as much junk as possible. Make sure as little as possible is started on boot up, it's possible to have Windows only use around 60MB of RAM after bootup if you do this.

Just what I want to do when I get a new machine: engage in resource allocation games... A new machine should be fast enough, and equipped with enough memory, to run the latest application and operating system without bogging down.

Not to mention the fact that the OS will need less swap/virtual memory, reducing disk access even more.

I couldn't imagine ram taking much power at all, but I guess it must. Imagine a power saving system where the only ram modules being powered are the ones in use - and additional modules are powered up as memory is consumed. That would be interesting, though I don't know how beneficial. And to be useful, you'd have to spread your total ram over several modules - 512MB in 4x128MB, rather than 1x512MB or

Powerbooks may not be as tough as ToughBooks, but you might be really surprised by how durable they are. Read the story of this poor powerbook... it survived getting run over by a truck. [iloha.net] Hehe =D

the price is way too much for what it is as well. I think panasonic is shooting themselves in the foot with this one

Panasonic does not sell these to consumers. Or even resellers. They're sold to institutions who need them. Like construction companies, and military units. They're certified to withstand shit that very little else can stand. They're NOT overpriced for what they are

This Thinkpad has a little, bitty, tasteful logo on the lower right corner. Nothing to offend. Actually I would have loved it if my new refurbed TP600E had a huge blue IBM logo on the top...I kinda like the symbolism of having a nice, big, badass (even though they are from 1999 they still kick ass) IBM Thinkpad running Linux. I guess the sticker I'm going to have made up with Calvin whizzing on the SCO logo will have to suffice. Suck on that, Darl Vader!

512 Megs a limiting factor? Really? On a notebook I would think that would be more the sufficient. Unlike a desktop computer, a notebook is less likely to be left on as long or to be used in a multitasking fashion. Even making movies music seems unlikely.

I am using a 1 gighz notebook right now with 512 megs or ram. I browse the web, do some music decompression (shn -> wav or vice versa) and cd burning, some light web work, and maybe some office apps.

I am using Linux and KDE and I am have never even hit 256 megs in use at any time.

My linux notebook is a 500 celeron with 256MB of RAM. Even running X and performing a bunch of tasks, it has yet to reach full use of the 256MB. I don't even remember the last time I ended up touching the swap partition.

Honestly, what notebook apps really need >512MB of RAM? I've seen servers run perfectly well with less than that. If it's simply a manifestation of a the-more-the-merrier philosophy, that's fine... we're all in touch with that.

Here's what I'm running right now: Finder, Mail, Safari, Bbedit, Transit, Toast, iPhoto, Virtual PC, Notepad, BitTorrent and Photoshop, and all without a hitch - <flame on> can't you do these things with Windows that you don't consider them?</flame off>:-)

Mine? I live in a college dorm, so space is an issue, and I need to take my computer to various rooms. At the same time, I need to use it as a desktop replacement. So a powerful laptop (Inspiron 8200) is ideal. Even at home, I'm tons more productive when I'm not stuck in one place at my desk.

I bought my laptop to do actual science on - I needed something with a big screen and reasonably powerful graphics. In my current lab, it turns out that I'm usually better off using my laptop than the lab computers; it's faster, and I don't have to compete with four other groups for CPU time. So, yeah, I need a lot of memory too; I can tear through 512 pretty quickly. My other computer is a relatively ancient SGI workstation, okay for web browsing/graphics/light coding, but not much for number crunching.

Movies I can almost agree with. Audio recording, on the other hand, seems like a good application for a notebook computer. A laptop is quieter than a desktop computer, largely because its power supply is usually external and passively cooled, and its processor can usually be set to slow down and run under passive cooling (i.e. no fan). This leaves only a hard disk as a noise source, but with 512 MB of RAM, assuming the machine's desktop environment takes 1/4 of th

I've had 1GB of RAM in my PowerBook G3 for a couple years. Typically I have 12-14 applications running (over 50 processes when you include system and background stuff). If I had 512MB of RAM there would be a fair bit of paging happening. Notebook drives are usually significantly slower than desktop drives which makes paging even slower. IMO lots of RAM is just as important in a notebook as it is in a desktop.

512 Megs a limiting factor? Really? On a notebook I would think that would be more the sufficient. [...snip...]
I am using a 1 gighz notebook right now with 512 megs or ram. I browse the web, do some music decompression (shn -> wav or vice versa) and cd burning, some light web work, and maybe some office apps.

It really depends on what you use your notebook for. Yes, if you just check your email and run office apps, 512MB is probably more than enough.

I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, however, clients like you are not going to purchase a consumer-model laptop such as this one. This laptop is obviously geared towards college students and yuppies who would normally look at an iBook or Powerbook for their mobile computing needs. The low RAM amount and the low processor (i.e. more battery power) confirms it.

You even stated that you're not a typical laptop user, so I would say that your "counter-example" is irrelevant.

Back in 1984, it took me 30 to 45 minutes to compile and link changes on a IBM PC/XT with 512k of ram.

That type of cycle time forced me to patch the code in-line to test and be sure that the changes I made would be changes that worked. When you have a quick change/build/test cycle you tend to get sloppy, if you are not careful.

What are you RUNNING home boy? For christ sake, it's a laptop, not a web server. If you think 512M is a limitation for a laptop, maybe you need to sit in a dark corner and think about what you are doing wrong. Maybe you're just thinking of using WinXP?

XSI and SolidEdge I don't know anything about, but I've run Gentoo on systems with much, much less ram than 512. I've never come even close to needing that much memory, even when emerging two or three things in parallel. I agree that G++ eats CPUs alive, but again, its footprint isn't _that_ large. That said, my workstation/server is using close almost 512 between main memory and tasks currently swapped out...

Face it, you're not going to be rendering in Maya, encoding DVDs to XviD/OGM or editing 60,000x20,000 pixel images in Photoshop on a 900 MHz CPU; Unreal Tournament 2003 isn't going to suck up all that memory running at 12 FPS on the integrated Intel graphics. And given the screen size, your ability to multitask is limited, since only so much will fit at once, so unless you feel like leaving open 70 minimized windows for some reason, that won't be an issue either.

With some services disabled, Windows XP will run fine on 96 MB of memory and Linux/BSD will do with the same or less depending on your WM du jour. I can't see why this much memory would be needed on a machine designed with productivity and groupware in mind. The default 256MB should be plenty.

Face it, you're not going to be rendering in Maya, encoding DVDs to XviD/OGM or editing 60,000x20,000 pixel images in Photoshop on a 900 MHz CPU; Unreal Tournament 2003 isn't going to suck up all that memory running at 12 FPS on the integrated Intel graphics. And given the screen size, your ability to multitask is limited, since only so much will fit at once, so unless you feel like leaving open 70 minimized windows for some reason, that won't be an issue either.

"If it wasn't for that kind of penis-substitute-mindset, we would have practical laptops with eight-plus hour battery life rather than ones with 2.8ghz P4s that can't make it to three hours."

Apple tried it with the very first Mac Portable in 1989, and it was a valiant but flawed effort. Sure, it had an 8 hour battery life, but it also weighed 17lbs thanks to a huge lead-acid battery and had a monochrome non-backlit screen.

The Li-Ion batteries these days are so small and light, they could easily double or

Apple tried it with the very first Mac Portable in 1989, and it was a valiant but flawed effort. Sure, it had an 8 hour battery life, but it also weighed 17lbs thanks to a huge lead-acid battery and had a monochrome non-backlit screen.

You're missing the point. If people were to look at their actual processor horsepower, RAM, and hard drive needs, laptop manufacturers could make sub-ghz machines with low-power CPUs (like VIA C3s, Transmetas, etc.), slower 2.5" hard drives, no cooling fans, and use other t

What about digital audio? I've don't plenty of work, both hobbyist and pro gigs, using less than 512MB of RAM. Get some perspective: Most CDs don't even have 512MB of music on them -- and it's not like you need to be able to get an entire CD into memory at once anyway.

I've just upgraded from a Dell L400 (similar computer, about 1" thick, 12" screen), largely because the RAM was maxxed out at 256 megs. Not enough. It was OK for many things, and I'll still use it for word processing on the go, but as you can imagine VMware really bogged down the whole system. 1024x768 is no impediment to multitasking, I find it very convenient to have many tabs open in mozilla with various documentation (and of course slashdot:) and that can really gobble RAM, just wait until you see "

>With some services disabled, Windows XP will run fine on 96 MB of memory

Umm, that must include the boot service.

Let's face facts here, if you're reading slashdot you probably use a lot of free software.

Mozilla tabs eat RAM like you wouldn't believe, and I for one am not going back to the old ways of only keeping a few windows/tabs open at a time. Sorry, but this feature changes the entire web experience for me and it uses RAM.

For a 12.1" laptop, there's no real reason to have more than 512meg. It's not like it's going to be a desktop replacement or anything. I've had tons of experience w/ sub and 12" notebooks. Never have I actually needed that much RAM.. only if I were running a pig OS like Windows;).
Anyway, the W2 isn't going to be used playing games or runnign a webserver... or am I mistaken by this?:)

512MB is no problem. The big problem is that it's not directly available outside of Japan, so it's essentially unsupported anywhere else, and you'd have a hard time getting any service or support.

It's one thing to buy a new grey market trinket that's only available in Japan (digital cameras, DAT, etc), but not many people I know would consider purchasing a laptop with no support or warranty when they can get one at the electronics store down the road.

Someone I know just got the W2. It's a pretty good laptop. Feels sturdy, and is nice and small. However, it's a bit on the thick side for something that small (think the ThinkPad X31). He says the battery life is about 5 hours, and that's pretty believable given the specs. He hasn't tried killing it yet, but I'm actually not sure how much the outer case could take. I took a look at it, and it seems to be made of plastic, not magnesium (I don't know about the inner case). The only things I don't like about i

<petpeeve>
why do companies still think it's acceptable to integrate things like 56k modems, when it's a centrino capable laptop, meaning it can be fully wireless. also noted is the lack of gigabit nic, as this is starting to make it's way into offices, however slowly.
</petpeeve>

beside that, it sounds like a great laptop, now if only i could afford it...

why do companies still think it's acceptable to integrate things like 56k modems, when it's a centrino capable laptop, meaning it can be fully wireless. also noted is the lack of gigabit nic, as this is starting to make it's way into offices, however slowly.

Why, exactly, do you feel that integrating an 56k Modem is unacceptable? It's a laptop. It travels. It travels by plane, train, automobile and just being lugged around the great big world in a bag. Most of that great bit world has POTS telephone

Acording to Panasonic it does, but hey, what do they know. I've used both iBooks and Tough Books. The Tough Books are much MUCH tougher. However most people have no use for that. However there is no other notebook that I'll go hiking/kayaking with.

Why do you need to bring a Laptop with you out to the outdoors? Unless your're a doctor, or something where the only way you'll get out of the office is if you're connected, don't bring everything with you. Otherwise, bringing along a laptop/DVD player/PDA defeats the purpose of going outdoors. Cell phones are ok, 'cause they can save your life, but still.

Or maybe you're an author working on the next Great American Novel... C'mon, a lot of us buy laptops so we *can* take them outside. Sitting in a cube or at a desk all day may not be our highest priority...

The hard drive is rubber-mounted for impact resistance. And there are no doors, protruding latches, or levers to break or get snagged.

Just don't make the mistake of trying to clean stuff out from under a keycap and try to pop one off. You may find it won't go back on. At least, mine didn't. One of the little tabs that hooks onto the scissor mechanism broke off. Thankfully some guy on eBay was selling replacement keycaps and scissor mechanisms for $5.. otherwise Apple seems to just only see full keyboa

Look at the keyboard. See the space between the keys for stuff to fall through? Like most other laptops, this is designed to break in a few years. It even looks like the return key is already popping out of place in the photos.

Read the fucking article yourself and quote for me where is says that. Try Panasonic's page too, while you're at it. Oddly, they list two other models as being spill-proof and dust-proof, but not this one.

Read it. Searched it. None of "water", "spill", or "proof" appeared in the text.

What really matters is whether fine or particulate matter can get under the keys dislogding them or breaking their stems. If you can't type normally, it's broken. Water-proofing would only protect what's inside the box.

limiting for what? if you want a laptop to do high end video editing you wouldn't be getting a 'top with such a small screen anyway. I have a 12" 800Mhz iBook that is now maxed out with 640Megs RAM, but I don't consider that 'limited'. I'm running Linux as well, and opening terms, checking my mail and playing mp3s isn't taxing my memory.

The fact that you can't bring up a basic development environment on a 512MB machine should be tipping you off to the fact that your architecture is a ridiculous pardody of a software advertisement. Either try trimming some fat, or realize that you can't run Bear Stearns' trading system on your laptop.

Yet again another "review" by a site which has very little information.

Basically it's the author's "feeling" about the notebook, a few pictures, some "testing" which means little to a typical laptop user and absolutely no "Print Article" button so I can bypass the "Hot Words" with advertising, side bar with advertising, top frame with advertising, and bottom frame with advertising.

This doesn't need to be a powerhouse, or a desktop replacement. But I don't want a 2 pound flimsy thing that requires an external CD/DVD drive and costs 2500 from Sony. This Panasonic looks mighty close to what I'm looking for, but I wish it weren't 2200 dolla

Got my Panny W2 on August 3rd, this is the best laptop I've ever had. It's the right mixture of horsepower, display, connectivity, and battery life. I do truly get 5 hours out of it, it's got a nice keyboard (with only a few quirks; particularly the arrow keys and tilde) and since the addition of the PCS Vision 1xRTT card.. totally connected.

Don't be confused by the Toughbook name; it's got a shockmounted HDD, motherboard, and display, but it's goal is mobility, not toughness.

I bought mine from Kevin Fawl at Bizco (www.toughonline.com) -- I'd buy another one if I needed another laptop tomorrow.

Is this really a Toughbook? That's the ruggedized line. But the review says:

While the plastic housing is convincing, it feels easy to scratch or crack. Our biggest annoyance was the placement of the eject and power buttons. Both are the same style, size, and located in adjacent sides of the front left corner. Nearly every other attempt to eject the CD resulted in the computer shutting down. Also, the ports appear to just be cut out of the case with no protection to keep pins from bendi

Ok, this post will be labelled as a troll, but who cares.I see a lot of "What do you need so much memory for?!", and "You're not running a web server, or playing games" and shit like that.

A laptop is, for me and a lot of people I know, machine to take with you, to act as a complete replacement of your workstation. Therefore I demand that it be as fast and responsive as my workstation. That means, fast CPU, fast graphics adapter, reasonable harddisk space and a lot of RAM. Now the Toughbook has a reasonably

Ultra-ultra slim laptops are never good for desktop replacements. For one thing hard drives that small are never as fast and you just can't cool modern (even mobile) procs at speeds near the desktops that well.

I dont get where the toughbook part comes in. Old toughbooks were built into briefcase style things, some (maybe aftermarket added, cant remember) had like honeycomb pattern stuff built into the case. You could run the damn things over. This thing, while pretty, doesnt look like it could withstand a 1 inch drop, nevermind a 5-6 foot drop like the old ones. If you operated that in harsh working conditions I really doubt it would stand up.

If you want mobility check out Sharp UW32http://www.sharpsystems.com/products/datashe ets/PC -UM32W.PDF

I'm not sure what the big deal is. The Panasonic doesn't seem significantly different from the Sharp UW32 minus the built in combo drive. I bought the Sharp UW32 a a few months ago for only $1200 and it is sweet!

Its almost as light as the Panasonic (only 3.0 lbs), just as fast with same memory and HD size standard. Although it has external cdrom, it has built in wilress, USB (2), firewire and even a compact flash slot! The exterior styling is the same cool metallic.

Whats best about the sharp is the depth. Its less than an inch thick (.77"). Unlike the VAIO though the keys on the keyboard have a great tactile feel because the whole keyboard pops up slightly when the lid is opened.

And its only around $1300 or $1400 and available in the US. I've even seen it at Circuit City.

The laptop's processor is a Pentium-M, not a Pentium4-M. Pentium-M's are newer, pack a LOT more power for their clock speed (add 500Mhz to get the equivalent Pentium4-M), and have Centrino technology (that means a wireless card that's not supported by Linux).

Yes, it's confusing, stupid, and backward. I didn't think up the name.

It's not the ram that throughs me off. As most posters have said the ram is fine. I beleive that the name toughbook should not have been tacked onto the model. This is yet another laptop, it is not built tough in any way sort or form. Tough laptops are what we have standard issue in our ambulances.. they regularly get dropped and tossed and survive just fine...

Its called a thinkpad, IBM has been making rock solid laptops for years. The orginal toughbook series is a great concept, but this particular model is just a branding exercise. Seriously though, the X31 has a 1.4 centrino processor, 5400 rpm drive, 1 gig of memory, wifi, and ports galore in a 3.5 pound footprint.

The W2 is for sales and upper management people. They are tools to impress and it takes money to impress. I'm sure couple of our sales guys are going to get one of these in a few months...lord knows we always the laptops they throw they no longer desire.

Windows apps can eat all that up, but I'm curious about the people who say they would like to run Linux and 512M isn't enough? I mean, good grief, I build and test Oracle apps with 256M RAM (only stressful thing about that is the initial oracle installation, during which it will page out a gig. But after putting up with that one time pain, everything is fine)

I'm also working on a project with 2 other guys with database, tomcat, apache, perl tcp server daemons, postfix all on a machine with 384M RAM, all