Ark is pretty popular with his exercises so I don't want people to think I am focusing on Ark. I am talking about a host of internal arts exercises out there that includes everyone practicing. I'm having this discussion with some friends training with an expert who continue to get confused between the attributes of the physical movements meant to stretch, train, open and loosen the body and what is actually internally intent driven, and THEIR TEACHER makes the same argument I am making here.

Then I have other people I've met and trained with who stand, who now realize all these years all they have been doing under their own expert teacher, is just standing there...... oh well,

It is mind / body that we are discussing so of course, in the end, the mind has to do...a thing. The intent driven and trained body is learning to physically move tissue, so there is a huge physical componant, but I would argue just where we are going to get the most bang for our buck, and it isn't in doing a series of exercises! It's in intent driven training, then adding-in / augmenting with certain physical movement exercises that are intent driven and the movements and goals and how your body ends up....are not all the same. And some -I think- are actually harmful in the long run.

So, as Lorel noted some are getting stronger through certain exercises, but I am not talking about just getting stronger. If strength were all there was what would be the big deal? I think intent is the big deal. And intent is a real bear, and it is hard for a lot of people to conceptualize and activate in themselves and even harder to lead it where you need to go, so they substitute with tension-all the while convincing themselves that, that weird opposing tension "feel"....is good.
IME, in the fullness of time people are going to discover that what was trained softly was the best way to internal. IMO it is also the most powerful, most controling, most profound and the healthiest for you as well.
Otherwise we might as well do cardio and lift.
Cheers
Dan

Dan,

When people talk about tension in relation to"this stuff" aren't they usually (or shouldn't they be) talking about a relaxed, non-muscular tension? I've read you use the explantion of "feeling like wearing a wet shirt" and others have similar explanations. Isn't that just another form of tension in the body, ableit one that is relaxed and free of any muscular force/use?

It's been my understanding that all of these exercises, at least the ones I've been exposed to, are designed to condition that feeling or structure in the various layers of the body (skin/fascia/bones/etc) so that it can effectively accept/transmit/manipulate forces without using muscular tension, which is what we want to avoid. There has to be some level of tension/form/etc there though, otherwise it's just empty, lifeless and incapable of transmitting anything. Doesn't that have to be in place before one can really move on to manipulating anything via intent or otherwise?
good thread btw.