Barachiel:Wow, it's pretty tough for me to believe people are jumping at the chance to defend the guy.

Especially given that TFA isn't even really about that instance of rape. It's not about Landen Gambill's assault, and it's not about her rapist. It's about an accusation that the school is routinely dismissive of sexual assault claims.

doglover:Theaetetus: Well, gosh, who's in the wrong in that situation?

Everyone.

... Holy fark. My hypothetical had:(i) lazy sensationalist reporter who's at least recklessly defaming someone; and(ii) legitimate victim who doesn't have enough details to name specific person but does the best she can;and you say that both are wrong?

ModernLuddite:///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.

Frankly, if women cried rape every time they went to bed with an incompetent man, then 99% of men would be in jail for rape by now. Rape is what happens when you do something a woman doesn't WANT.

////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

It's not that women think every man is a rapist, per se. We tend to think every man has the potential to be a rapist because it's impossible to tell the normal guys from the rapists until they're actually raping you.

//Agree to disagree.

You're kidding, right? Sorry, I don't think I'll ever be in a place where I think "Women cry rape for no reason and men are the aggrieved party in a rape trial" is a valid stance.

Voiceofreason01:Ambivalence: Heaven forbid we should hurt the rapist's fee fees.

There hasn't been a police investigation, no charges have been filed. All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university If she was raped she needs to file a police report and let them handle it. This University "honor court" bullshiat isn't going to cut it. And if the University is guilty of anything it's not telling her that in the first place.

Oh, it's much bigger than that. She is only one of many who signed the complaint. A pattern of covering up rape is alleged. If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Jesus Christ, what's wrong with you? That's not funny. It's not pithy. It's not clever. You're defending women or anyone's honor by saying these things. It is not Justice. It is pretty stupid though, so you've got that going for you.

Kaenneth:I know that women lie. Had a girl accuse me of 'undressing her with my eyes' in high school. No clue who she was, and I wasn't, because I'm gay.

So one woman, one time, misread the way you were looking at her and accused you of doing something rude but legal and your conclusion from this one relatively harmless interaction with one member of the gender that makes up half the human race is "Women are psycho liars who should be locked in camps"?

IgG4:Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?

Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that yo ...

Uhh, the "right direction" would be not identifying the "rapist" in ALL cases until a conviction is made. Why? Because unlike you farking Dworkinites and followers of Catherine Comins, there is NOTHING to be learned from a false rape accusation.

For those that need the quote, "men who are unjustly accused can sometimes gain from the experience. "They have a lot of pain, but it is not a pain that I would necessarily have spared them. I think it ideally initiates a process of self-exploration. 'How do I see women?' 'If I didn't violate her, could I have?' 'Do I have the potential to do to her what they say I did?' Those are good questions."

There hasn't been a police investigation, no charges have been filed. All we have is her word about what's going on. If we look at the evidence so far the boyfriend might have a good libel case against her and the university If she was raped she needs to file a police report and let them handle it. This University "honor court" bullshiat isn't going to cut it. And if the University is guilty of anything it's not telling her that in the first place.

Oh, it's much bigger than that. She is only one of many who signed the complaint. A pattern of covering up rape is alleged. If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

IgG4:Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: Somacandra: Weaver95: I cannot even begin to untangle the morass of lies, contradictions and bullshiat the right wing in this country has said they believe when it comes to the subject of rape in this country.

[i.imgur.com image 582x615]

I think this color-coded graphic helps sort the issues out well.

IgG4 is Orange, apparently. Shame, I farkied him as red 5.

Then how come you keep responding to me?

Because, Sparky, it's not about me thinking that you're an asshole. It's about tagging you as a predator for the good of the population.

See, the majority of men are not rapists. The majority of men should not be afraid of false accusations, and shouldn't be in fear that a clumsy advance should be considered sexual assault. Rather, rapists make up a small portion of the population, and they commit multiple rapes - 6 on average. But they blend in to society, with half-jokes about rape victims asking for it, trying to diminish victims' credibility by saying that women who, say, failed to immediately contact the police* weren't legitimately raped.And because it seems logical initially, and we non-rapists don't want to believe that there are such monsters in our midst, we say "yeah, that makes sense, she must have been lying." And the rational response from women is to fear that any man could be a rapist.

Well, shiat. Because of lies like that, both men and women are in fear. And that's wrong. Particularly when all we need to do is start identifying you. Because, if we get past our fear, you do stand out. You make jokes about rape. You demand that suspected rapists be innocent until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, but simultaneously demand that rape victims be guilty of slander unless they prove the rapist committed a crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Shiat, you identify yourselves, and, most importantly, you identify yourselves as being a smallportion of the population. See, if we can tag you and count you, we can show that you're only ab ...

Problem?

Trolling? No. More like you got caught with a stupid, idiotic set of comments and you're trying to back out. Try again next time. Or better yet, don't.

My prediction: If it hasn't already happened, it won't be long before the internet thinks to itself, "And just who are the individuals running the UNC Student Attorney General's office?"

Approximately five seconds after that, they will come across the staff page for the UNC SAG, along with the roster of current members.

Not long after that, at least a few of the people on that list are probably going to come to the sudden realization that the only way you get national press as a "student attorney general" is if you have severely farked up, at which point they'll start desperately trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

BarkingUnicorn:Oh, it's much bigger than that. She is only one of many who signed the complaint. A pattern of covering up rape is alleged. If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Check some of my other posts in this thread. There's absolutely no real evidence of any kind presented in this article or the ones linked ITFA. This is absolutely the last situation that should be treated to a public forum such as an article in Huff Po or Jezabel. When the matter of rape is brought up tempers tend to run high which is why this is a matter for the police. It needs to be decided in a court of law not the court of public opinion. And so far it seems to have been handled VERY badly by pretty much everyone involved.

China White Tea:My prediction: If it hasn't already happened, it won't be long before the internet thinks to itself, "And just who are the individuals running the UNC Student Attorney General's office?"

Approximately five seconds after that, they will come across the staff page for the UNC SAG, along with the roster of current members.

Not long after that, at least a few of the people on that list are probably going to come to the sudden realization that the only way you get national press as a "student attorney general" is if you have severely farked up, at which point they'll start desperately trying to put the toothpaste back in the tube.

yeah, once something like this hits the intertubes there's a good chance it's going to escalate rapidly out of control. Or it could fizzle and nothing happens. you just can't tell.

what I do know is that its a risk I wouldn't wanna take. If I were the school i'd have STFU and let the students make their suggestions, then make some changes in school policy. they'd have gone away, it wouldn't be all over the 'net, and nobody would be talking to the feds about any of this.

I'm relatively certain a real lawyer is seeing this, and salivating at the prospect of sticking it to this stupid ass "Honor Court" system. Speak to a real lawyer, give them a week to prepare and they'll go into that meeting spouting off about first amendment rights being infringed upon, and threatening the honor court and the "student attorney general" with a lawsuit and they'll cave.

Then, go to the real police, report the sexual assault and stalking and go from there.

I'll NEVER understand why people who are victims of crime insist upon going to their school, or employer, to have those allegations investigated. If somebody sexually assaulted me, I'd first call the police and THEN inform the school so that they may begin an investigation to possibly expel the person, while the police are working the criminal aspect of it.

Voiceofreason01:BarkingUnicorn:Oh, it's much bigger than that. She is only one of many who signed the complaint. A pattern of covering up rape is alleged. If proven, UNC can join Penn State.

Check some of my other posts in this thread. There's absolutely no real evidence of any kind presented in this article or the ones linked ITFA. This is absolutely the last situation that should be treated to a public forum such as an article in Huff Po or Jezabel. When the matter of rape is brought up tempers tend to run high which is why this is a matter for the police. It needs to be decided in a court of law not the court of public opinion. And so far it seems to have been handled VERY badly by pretty much everyone involved.

cowgirl toffee:No kidding. I can't tell you how many dates went bad because I confused "don't stop, don't stop" with "don't...stop!, don't... stop!"

People who use double negatives deserve the consequences.

Genevieve Marie:So one woman, one time, misread the way you were looking at her and accused you of doing something rude but legal and your conclusion from this one relatively harmless interaction with one member of the gender that makes up half the human race is "Women are psycho liars who should be locked in camps"?

Theaetetus:IgG4: Are you drunk? Look if you get raped you go to the cops and press charges then you let the DA take it from there. You don't file a complaint with the US Dept of Ed Office of Civil Rights. When you do that you look like an activist with an axe to grind, which in this case I think she probably is. How that makes me a psychopath I have no idea.

She complained to a state authority with state police, and only went to a federal agency because of their lack of response. But that's apparently not good enough for you, because you want to call her "an activist with an axe to grind" so that people will shut her up. Boy, you sure are angry at being called out on your own words.And I stand by my original declaration of your Farky. That's incredibly sociopathic, and there's really no excuse for the rest of us to stand idly by and let your words spew out unopposed. As long as people think you have any credibility, you're harmful to society.

I wouldn't go quite that far, but "I bet she's lying!" is a damned odd response to the article. I'm not sure if that would be better or worse than, "Sure, she was raped, but she's a troublemaker to make such a fuss about it."

Theaetetus:IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

Genevieve Marie:ModernLuddite: ///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

"I think rape accusations are always false because all it is is someone doing something to a woman that she doesn't like sexually"- the implication being that women don't have any right to say no and have that respected.

And you know, if all the women you meet act like you might be a rapist, you might want to think long and hard about why that is.

/Pro tip: It's because you sound like a rapist.

This is the moral equivalent of saying "if all the men you meet want to rape you, you might want to think long and hard about why that is." (because you dress like you want them to).

There are likely scores of men sitting in prison who were falsely convicted of rape (not because they are the wrong man, but because no rape occurred). There are also thousands of women who have been raped and for which no person has been convicted of doing it. Why does anyone feel the need to pick one side over the other instead of supporting a system that would reduce both?

What point? That UNC needs to encourage it's students that have been victims of crimes that they need to go to the police? Because if so I agree. If you're implying that there's some kind of coverup going on, then(as a completely uninvolved bystander) I'm going to need to see some evidence first before I'm on board with that interpretation of events.

Maestro1701:Theaetetus: IgG4: Theaetetus: IgG4: She sounds like a trouble maker to me. Multiple accusations against various men, exploiting what ever means she has at her disposal to make her political position heard? Sounds like trouble to me.

BarkingUnicorn:The Daily Tarheel has some good journalism on this case.

FTA: "When I went to report my assault in 2007, I asked an administrator what the process would look like," Clark said. "Instead, that person told me, 'Rape is like a football game, Annie. If you look back on the game, and you're the quarterback and you're in charge, is there anything that you would have done differently in that situation?'"

Cataholic:Genevieve Marie: ModernLuddite: ///"Rape" is what happens when you do anything a woman doesn't like.////And if you think that attitude is sick, well, I think assuming every man you meet is a rapist is pretty sick.

"I think rape accusations are always false because all it is is someone doing something to a woman that she doesn't like sexually"- the implication being that women don't have any right to say no and have that respected.

And you know, if all the women you meet act like you might be a rapist, you might want to think long and hard about why that is.

/Pro tip: It's because you sound like a rapist.

This is the moral equivalent of saying "if all the men you meet want to rape you, you might want to think long and hard about why that is." (because you dress like you want them to).

Not all the men that meet a woman want to rape her, and I'm disgusted that you would think that's possible. It says a lot about your opinion of normalcy.