12K
Similiar to the civilian world their duties are focused on all piping, including septic systems.
12R
Low voltage only, power could come from a typical power line similiar to what we have here in the states, or they would have to wire the structure to a generator.
12H
For E6 and E7, a supervisory position depending on rank and position within the platoon they will be responsible for materials, people, tools, training the junior soldiers, and be the onsite expert of everything they do. They must be proficient in all trades involved in the construction process.

The soldiers in my platoon are 12K, 12R and 12W and cross training is a constant. The majority of my projects have limited plumbing and electrical therefor my R's and K's learn real quick how to swing a hammer and float a trowel. As engineers we are expected to be able to build anything anywhere, and then defend it afterwards. So yes we do can do combat missions, but we would need expert assistance.

12N is an engineer equipment operator. For the most part they will always be located with a horizontal assest, but most vertical platoons have at least one slot.

I totally overlooked this. Thank you very much!

You know, this is by far, the single most largest amount of information I have been able to find of Army Engineers in a Vertical Construction Company.

I'm being serious.

Just looking on the internet, there is so much detailed information about military operations, specific jobs Infantry do, unit compositions from SAW Gunners to Grenadiers to the Fireteam and Squad Leaders, even information on Sattelite communications information. But there is literally like no information at all out there for an Army Plumber.

I can download the manufacturer schematics for all 11 varients of the Army's new Stryker Vehicle, as well as the Technical Manuals that list and label all mechanical assemblies of the Army's vehicle MRAP and the Marine Corps MATV (no idea what the abbreviations mean, but that's the cover to the manual) that give detailed information on how the armor plates go on, how to make sure they are secured, where the engines at, where each member of a crew and passengers are sitting, where the ammunition containers are, etc.

But for the sake of me, I can't find anything at all relevant about being an Army Plumber, or an Army Electrician outside of what you just posted.. But I can get Army LOGSA Technical Manuals for the Abrams Main Battle Tank (SEP) and the AH-64D Apache, and can get avionics schematics, including information of previous operations by the black ops guys. But nothing for Construction.

So much to the point, that I can get more information concerning Combat Stuff and how the Army and Marine Corps conducts combat stuff, but I can't hardly find squat on Vertical Engineers.

A buddy of mine in service was laughing his butt off speaking to me on the phone earlier today when I brought it up to him (he is a FISTER) and he just laughed, he sat on the phone laughing over 20 minutes after an almost 40 minute convo about an ODBs MTOE and METL and composition from the ODB to the ODAs and a SOCOM Joint Task Force. But I couldn't find anything about an Army Plumber.

In the past three weeks studying the Army Construction Units, and the Army orgenization as a whole, I have concluded, that the Army is more concerned about keeping Plumbers and Electricians classified, and broadcasting information of schools, combat jobs, unit orgenizations, army logistics programs, combat vehicles, mines, combat unit compositions, aircraft, and sattelite communications systems, in an effort to keep Construction Workers under the cover of the black halo to forever lurk in the shadows.

For real, I'm not serious about the last comment on the black halo thing, but it's literally ridiculous how much information is out there about the "secret squirls" and the combat guys who's job is to go directly into the fight and their vehicles they operate, but the moment someone tries to look into the support guys, for jobs that literally per armystudyguide do not require a security clearance, it's like the pages are blank.

Call me paranoid, but there has got to be a conspiracy. I've found more information about jobs, vehicles, equipment, units, etc. that supposedly require a "clearance" posted across the internet (to include entire manufacturer schematics and army technical manuals specifically discussing electronic, and mechanical systems) than I have about any jobs at all that aren't even related to security clearance jobs.

Problem with contractors, is they **** Special Forces guys because they can't follow basic plumbing and electrical codes (UPC/NEC) and the number one code found in both codes.

Don't mix water and electricity, do not have electrical wiring contacting pipe, do not have pipe contacting electrical wiring, keep electrical conduit (if conductive) minimum of 48'' away from water piping, 10 feet away from gas piping unless manufaturer says otherwise (such as a gas furnace, or gas water heater)

Things like that, are what contractors do. They **** $850,000 men with a $0.50 wires and $5 pipes with no attention to building code. I could never work with idiots like that.

He wants to be a plumber but spends countless hours downloading irrelevant material to his research but sounds literate on the subject matter.

You want info about a plumber then head to a recruiting station and ask where can you go to meet one to get info on joining. Writing 3000 words dissertation about it in your post is simply wasting your time.

He wants to be a plumber but spends countless hours downloading irrelevant material to his research but sounds literate on the subject matter.
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Yes its getting a bit strange. My question is why would anyone wanting to be a plumber, be researching and dowloading TMs, schematics and tactics that a plumber would most likely never use? Seems to me like someone needs to spend more time looking for a recruiter, pipe wrench, and plunger. Obviously too much free time.

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Yes its getting a bit strange. My question is why would anyone wanting to be a plumber, be researching and dowloading TMs, schematics and tactics that a plumber would most likely never use? Seems to me like someone needs to spend more time looking for a recruiter, pipe wrench, and plunger. Obviously too much free time.

SEP I thought was Septic, then found out it was an M1A2 Abrams SEP schematics.

Found via google looking up Army Plumbing Systems.

Found the Stryker TMs while looking into Engineer Vehicles Army Plumbers Use

LOGSA ans SAMS-E I found info on across yahoo answers to include the NSNs to order PATRIOT missiles.

All the stuff I've found on Special Forces, including class syllabus etc. etc. If ound while looking up Engineer Sergeant for Special Forces, which opened up entire encyclopia's worth of information concerning special forces, joint task forces, Navy SEALs, etc. Including different classes aside from the typical Ranger, Sapper, Sniper, SOTIC classes etc.

And FYI, a Plunger isn't used by Plumbers. Unless a company, or home owner wants to pay $60 to have someone plunge their toilet for them. There is far more to plumbing than dealing with toilet malfunctions.

And Mr. Loki, not sure why my IP says I live in NYC or Texas, considering I'm in Washington.

EDIT

Also to add, information I've been trying to find about Army Plumbers and Electricians, well, ****, even the Canadian Ground Force has more detailed information of a career pipeline for a Plumber and Electrician, even to include apprenticeship civilian side to support advancement on military side, and the accreditions of the training/apprenticeship.

I will never serve the military of another nation but my own, but simply putting that out as an example.

Looking up Army Plumbers more and more, I come up with swarms of information for New Zealand's Army, Australia, Germany, Denmark, I've even found highly detailed websites for the Russian Army Plumbers and Electricians. But as far as their SpecOps types go, and the stuff that's supposedly "Super Secret" etc. They are all blank pages.

But for the US Army, it's the exact opposite. Why is it that the US Army broadcasts stuff they supposedly say is top secret and other garbage like that, but publish their data, information, class details, rosters, etc. over the World Wide Web? But they can't post information about being an Army Plumber, no, no no no. That's like getting into CAG, it's all super secret.

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He wants to be a plumber but spends countless hours downloading irrelevant material to his research but sounds literate on the subject matter.

You want info about a plumber then head to a recruiting station and ask where can you go to meet one to get info on joining. Writing 3000 words dissertation about it in your post is simply wasting your time.

Keep it short and sweet so our attention span won't fade.

Recruiters I've spoken with literally don't know anything about them, other than what's posted on goarmy.com or the paragraph on the nationalguard.com job description.

In fact, trying to track down a Plumber from the Guard Unit I'm looking to join, is more difficult than tracking down Engineer Sergeants from the 19th. (Not joking)

Just to even FIND ANY Soldier who has 12K as their MOS, has proven practically impossible. I finally tracked down a 12R a couple days ago, but he hasn't even started school yet because his class is on lay over until after Christmas exodus.

Entire point is, I can find more useless **** about schools I'll never attend, or even care to attend and vehicles I'll never drive nor care to drive than I can about a job I actually want to do. And the most info I can get out of any Recruiters, is whether or not a slot is open, and the goarmy.com and nationalguard.com description pages.

I can find more information about Special Forces and operations done by the 19th, and 1st groups than I can about an Army Plumber, and what an Army Plumber can expect on deployment.

Marine2Guard posted what is by far, the HIGHEST amount of descriptive information concerning 12Ks and gives an idea of what a Vertical Construction Platoon can do. That is by far the highest concentration of information I've ever found of 12Ks. And considering reading through this board, and even the goarmy.com forums, 11B, 12B, 19D, 19K, 18 series and all the "cool guy" schools are broadcasted everywhere. but NOTHING (except Marine2Guards post) about a Construction Company.

I'm sure in all of your research, you've found that Engineering was not always 12 series. That might be useful information when searching "older" sites that aren't updated as often, like this one.K, R and H have a lot of good information. N has changed a little bit so the info isn't quite as accurate. The contact information for the unit you referenced is available, find it and give them a call, or stop by.

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I'm sure in all of your research, you've found that Engineering was not always 12 series. That might be useful information when searching "older" sites that aren't updated as often, like this one.K, R and H have a lot of good information. N has changed a little bit so the info isn't quite as accurate. The contact information for the unit you referenced is available, find it and give them a call, or stop by.

Good luck,

Since WW1 it was 12 series (when they started using numerical designations, before that, army occupations were abbreviated like the Navy Rates) then in the 1980s they changed it to 21 series, than back to 12 series.

But majority of 12 series occupations, prior to be labeled 21 series to begin with were 54 and 57 series, MOSs were designated based on the billets they served in the classification of the company they were to be assigned to.

History of the Army Engineer Regiment is far richer than that of the SEABEEs, in fact, the Engineers are older than the Infantry and Artillery Branches. Engineers used to serve as advanced positions for the Infantry as intended by General George Washington, but the evolution of the battlefield, and the need for specific roles instead of general roles divided the Infantry's ranks and formed an Engineer Regiment. The third occupation of the Army. (or the third "Branch" of the Army if you will) Infantry was also the same way as the Marine Corps Infantry. they used to never have "11B" as the single Infantry occupation. Tankers used to be designated as Infantry as well, and during World War 2, through the Korean War, Tankers earned the Combat Infantry Badge. It used to be 11E was a Tank Crewman. Then they had Infantry that were designated as Forward Observers, 11Fs they used to not be 13F until around the late 1960s when they converted the 11F to 13F. and it wasn't until the 1980s before they seperated 11D into 19D, and consolidated 11D, H, G, I, and 11J into 11B, and consolidated 11C and 11K together. (Light Mortarman, and Heavy Mortarman)

I'm very well aware that 12K used to be a myriad of other designations. That information is all over the place, but what's not over the place, is the roles and career pathways of the job, and the potential job security (not full time) of knowing you'll be doing your job and actually building structures, water distribution systems, actually doing construction work/staying busy doing construction work, or at least going out in the field and doing patrols or something.

The SEABEEs have only been around roughly 70 years, the Engineers history spans over 330 years since the days of orgenized militia's. Being a part of the Army Engineer Regiment IMHO would feel as a much greater accomplishment with the history and background of it.

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For some reason there is a delay on my posts, I hit submit but they never appear until much later after writing them?

Anyways, I was going to add:

I have found a program called Army Civilian Acquired Skills Program, but I don't qualify for the program because I am currently in a pre-apprenticeship training program.

The way it works for me on my end, is I'm in a Construction Basics Course, which covers 4-5 weeks of training per subject of: Carpentry, Plumbing, Electrical, and HVAC. aside from Forklifts we don't do much Heavy Equipment Operation, however some worksites do have us use Heavy Equipment.

After completing construction basics we are allowed to branch off into 12 month specific programs in the area of preference.

For me, that is Plumbing. Learning a little bit of everything and doing a little bit of everything, I love building. And looking at the Army Engineer Regiment, and all of the Army Engineer units in my home region of the State of WA, and a few hours from my home region, there is literally not a single type of Engineer unit outside of a Quarying Company, Earth Transportation Company, or an Airborne/Air Assault Company that isn't in my area. (Quaring Company's are all found on East Coast per my research, they basically blast mountain sides and mine minerals and materials from the mountains, Earth Transportaiton Company's are 100% comprised of 91Bs, Ls, 12Ns, 12H, and a 120A and a 12A, their job is to operate all Dump Trucks to transport what they mined, and then Airborne/Air Assault is self explanatary. Although I will add, the 82nd Airborne has the most bizarre Engineer Company I've ever heard of, they basically jump into thick forestry with chainsaws and cut down landing zones)

There is even a Firefighting Battalion 2hrs away. And two different kinds of Horizontal Engineer Companys, one type of Vertical Engineer Company, two types of Diver Company's, and five different types of Combat Engineer Company's. All of them within 4 hrs drive, majority of them are each withing 1 1/2 hrs drive away. 2 at the max.

And a bonus to the Engineer Regiment vs SEABEEs, is that in the SEABEEs, Equipment Operators and Mechanics are all found in an Alpha Company, all of the Builders (Carpentry/Masonry) and Steelworkers are all found in the Bravo Company, all Utilitiesmen and Construction Electricians are all found in Charlie Company's. While in the Army, you have all Construction jobs compiled into each Platoon, which builds a stronger core base to build upon as far as cross training and other stuff like that. Making it far more benficial as far as the learning curve is concerned to go Army over Navy.