Sorry to interrupt you, most of the people are criticizing me because I’m interrupting but sometimes I have to.

Тони Хейес:

There is nothing new in it!

Олег Тиньков:

Yes, I know Tony for a long time and now there is nothing new when Oleg Tinkov is interrupting and so shut up. I truly believe that the end of 1950s and the beginning of 1960s is the best epoch of all times starting from the Greek Empire. Because it was really time, when we have got Marilyn Monroe, Liza Fitzgerald, Louis Armstrong and people of the world and especially the US, they were so happy about the times and they looked very much in the future with such a prospect. It was kind of different times: a lot of joy and a lot of future were there. When you see it now, we have what: terrorists, bad times, crushing. I mean the really best epoch was end of 1950s beginning of 1960s.

Тони Хейес:

What happened in the end of the 1950s in the United States and through up to the 1960s is two things, the second caused by the first: those born in the baby boom after World War II came the age of having their own children and because there were so many people having children at one time they created the second baby boom, which was huge. And those children were born from 1955 until probably 1963 or so. In this range – may be 1951 till 1961. We had a tremendous amount of population growth in the United States. And this led to a huge generation in music and apolitical thinking, apolitical activity, coming both from the UK and the United States. So it was a very interesting time to grow up in the United States, even though I was in the early 1960s only about 3 years old, I was exposed to a lot of changes in the world, starting with the Beatles.

Олег Тиньков:

Why did you start your own business versus just going to work to some other guys, to big companies?

Тони Хейес:

You know I have always worked from when I was really young. So when I was may be 9 or 10 years old I would go from door to door and sell things, I would start business at our “dacha”, at our country house in Connecticut, I would mow lawns, paint houses, I would wash windows, I always wanted for some reasons to earn money. So it was natural for me, I did take a job, by the way, I waited tables, I worked on a fishing boat for a year just to earn money and have some discipline.

Олег Анисимов:

How did you spend your money?

Тони Хейес:

I saved the money and I bought small neon signs and I would collect the neon signs in my house and I would rent the neon signs for production companies, for using TV commercials and made emotional pictures.

Олег Тиньков:

What kind of signs?

Тони Хейес:

Too many neon signs.

Олег Тиньков:

Like on air?

Тони Хейес:

“Eat here”, “Hotel”, “Motel”, “Restaurant” – those were very popular.

Олег Тиньков:

Pink ones.

Тони Хейес:

And I actually stepped on one in my house and cut my foot and realized that I should take a storefront and that’s how I left the apartment and opened a storefront and that became a more serious business. I started my own business really because I didn’t want to wear a suit ever and I wanted to get up and to go to the beach whenever I’d like to and I not have to ask my boss. As it turned out I have to wear a suit and I never go to the beach.

Олег Тиньков:

Now tell your transition from being an American entrepreneur into being a Soviet, oh, no, sorry, a Russian entrepreneur actually.

Тони Хейес:

It wasn’t so. When I came here it was 1993.

Олег Тиньков:

So it was Russia.

Тони Хейес:

Then things were changing very rapidly. I came, I had a neon sign shop in Soho in New York and I made a neon sign for someone who told me I didn’t have to come to Russia. All I had to do was to make the sign and leave it downstairs. At that stage I had not travelled very much and I had a list of places I wanted to visit. And at that time excuse me, but Russia was not high on the list of places I wanted to visit, though I was fascinated by Russia and I was fascinated by how everything was going on here. I was young and I wanted to go to Caribbean, to Paris and to places like this. So after the promise that I didn’t have to come to Russia they came, they took the sing and some 6 month later they called me and they said: “We don’t know how to install the sing. You must come and install the sign”. So after many phone calls I finally agreed they made me an offer I couldn’t refuse and it wasn’t violent, the financial offer was good enough for me to say: “Ok, I leave my business in New York, I’ll come for 5 days, install the sign and go back”. Because in New York the sign would take two days, so 5 days, may be something goes wrong and we could fix it.

Олег Анисимов:

Who was your partner?

Тони Хейес:

In New York?

Олег Анисимов:

In Moscow.

Тони Хейес:

The Trinity Group. But at that stage I was by myself, I came here to put on the sign for the “Metelitsa” casino at Noviy Arbat.

Олег Тиньков:

It was for a casino? “Metelytsa”, Noviy Arbat. Ok.

Тони Хейес:

So I arrived to install the sign, it was May holidays, nobody was working, I was here for 6 or 7 days.

Олег Тиньков:

Like right now.

Тони Хейес:

Like now, like arriving on Saturday to do a job. But in 1993 the country completely shut down. Now it continuous to work, it just slows down. In any case, after a week the workers did show up. The first day we had a meeting, decided what we were going to do and everybody left. The second day we met at the same place, we had another meeting, everybody agreed on what we were supposed to do and everybody left. The other one was exactly like this, for a week. So I have been in Russia for 2 weeks and I haven’t done anything. So I finally said: “Look, I have to go back to New York, nothing is going on. I was so sure that the workers would start working and things would start to happen. Somewhere around half way through the 3rd week they did start to work and the sign went up. Actually very slowly but it did go up without any problems, except for one of the last neon lamps to be installed broke it the installation.

So we had to fix it. I brought the parts and other materials to fix it - I know enough about fixing so I could fix it. We had to find a neon centre, which we found - the State neon sign factory, which was up in the north of Moscow at that time, and we visited this, what I thought it was regular neon centre, and it was by far the largest neon centre that I had ever imagined existing. It was a full city block, and it was a vertical factory, and it was huge, and they had no work. So everybody was very excited to fix my tube. We fixed the tube and we had a couple of meetings because they were looking for western investment and western partners. We started to have some negotiations and that brought me to the “Trinity Group” and I asked them to be my partner and started business in Russia.

Олег Анисимов:

Давид Якобашвили?

Тони Хейес:

Yes.

Олег Тиньков:

By the way, he was here, David was one of our guests.

Тони Хейес:

Really?

Олег Тиньков:

Yes, may be …

Олег Анисимов:

3 month ago.

Олег Тиньков:

Yes, 3 month ago, he was right here.

Тони Хейес:

I hope you have said something good about me.

Олег Тиньков:

Yes, actually he did. He mentioned Trinity Neon. So you became the biggest neon sign company in Russia or biggest outdoor..

Тони Хейес:

No, it depends on how you look at it. If you include billboards, we were a very small company. If you never let down and include only neon signs, which was kind of a niche part of a business, we were certainly the biggest. And in 2005 we sold “Trinity Neon” to “News Corp” which is the company owned by Murdoch.

Олег Тиньков:

How much did they pay?

Тони Хейес:

They paid us very well.

Олег Тиньков:

So you sold it in 2005 and what was then?

Тони Хейес:

I then joined the company called “Mediaholding” which is an advertising agency, a Russian company, and I came in and got involved in a number of things, and one of the things I got involved in was a television screen advertising inside the shopping centers and inside the supermarkets. And the contract had a lot of problems and I was asked to solve the problems.

Олег Тиньков:

You became partner of that company?

Тони Хейес:

I did.

Олег Анисимов:

Tony is the founder of the famous pub in Moscow called “Hungry duck”. Tell us, Tony, about this experience.

Олег Тиньков:

Is it true?

Тони Хейес:

You didn’t know? I am sorry.

Олег Тиньков:

You’ve never invited me!

Тони Хейес:

I had to sell the company when I had children and I get married because it didn’t..

Олег Тиньков:

Fit!

Тони Хейес:

It didn’t fit. Thank you! A wanted to open a restaurant for many years and it seamed like a logical thing to do it in Russia because there really weren’t many Russian restaurants in the early - mid 1990s and the restaurants were not really very good. So we had the idea to build a stake house, and we found this location near Kuznetskiy Most and we built this beautiful bar, we imported the bar top from Finland and opened this restaurant. And because of it’s location, because of some other things and some misunderstandings with partners and other things which I would really rather not talk about, the business was not doing that well after it’s initial success and slowly became a night club. And eventually it was no longer a restaurant at all, it was only a night club and I think it is fair to say the rest is history. So it was a great project to be involved in and it was a great project to leave.

Олег Тиньков:

It was famous at that time.

Тони Хейес:

It was pretty famous. Infamous I think is the word.

Олег Анисимов:

When it was closed?

Тони Хейес:

I am not even sure if it was closed, I have no idea, may be it’s still running.

Олег Анисимов:

Your company “Retail Profile” is making business in 12 regions of Russia

Тони Хейес:

12 cities.

Олег Анисимов:

12 cities of Russia. And what are the best cities for business?

Тони Хейес:

Well you know when I worked with “Trinity Neon” in the 1990s they always said: “First you work and you get Moscow and then, you know, it opens opportunities to move across Russia”. It is not really true. You know, I had to do business in Russia, and Moscow - it does not give you the tools you need to do business in Nizhniy Novgorod or in Rostov or in Samara. Each of these cities are so far away from one another, that they have their own ways of working, they may be similar, but if you had Moscow it is not a ticket that you can use there. Yekaterinburg has proved to be a very-very good city, very strong.

Saint Petersburg is obviously the second capital, some people say “the first capital”, but for us we do as well in Yekaterinburg as we do in Saint Petersburg and sometimes better. Novosibirsk is a very strong city, Kazan is coming up strong all the time, especially now, when the games are coming. I think Krasnodar is going to grow very-very quickly, it has a lot of activity and a lot of investment are going in there. So anywhere investment are going in - it is good for us, because people have jobs and people are making money. And Russians, unlike Westerners - I do not know about Easterners, but unlike Westerners - they spend the money. They have the largest percentage of disposable income in the world I think.

Олег Тиньков:

Where do you think the crisis hit the most - in US or here, in Russia?

Тони Хейес:

Well, you see. Most of my experience in Russia is Moscow and Moscow is certainly not Russia.

Олег Тиньков:

So there is no crisis in Moscow

Тони Хейес:

No, there was the crisis in Moscow but it certainly did not hit Moscow the way it hit…

Олег Анисимов:

For about 2 weeks there was a crisis

Тони Хейес:

Well outside of Moscow in the suburbs, in a countryside, people were devastated by the crisis

Олег Тиньков:

Because I have not gone to the US for many years and some people say that it was a terrible crisis in the US. Would you confirm it, or what’s the situation there?

Тони Хейес:

It was pretty firm in US - unemployment, I don’t know the exact figures, but it was very high, in the Midwest where we had the automobile industry it was crippled. You know, General Motors went into bankruptcy, and Chrysler - they all had significant losses of jobs, people could not pay the mortgages and there it started a snowball, nobody really could stop it.

Олег Тиньков:

Do you think it is all for now?

Тони Хейес:

I think it has already hit the bottom and it is coming up. But for some people it will never be solved. People lost their homes, they lost their jobs, they lost everything they worked for in their entire life. It was taken back by the banks.

Олег Тиньков:

Greedy banks.

Тони Хейес:

By the greedy banks.

Олег Тиньков:

The biggest difference for me between foreign entrepreneurs and Russian entrepreneurs are 2 things: the first is the lack of ideas for win-win situations. Russian entrepreneurs tend to grab everything to themselves and they do not care about their partners, that is the first problem of Russian entrepreneurs for me versus foreigners. And the second, which probably would be more significant, is that Russian entrepreneurs are short term thinkers versus US entrepreneurs. I think now it is changing, but most Russian think for 1 to 3 years time horizon, when US people would think for 5 to 10 years.

Тони Хейес:

But the question is, why would that be?

Олег Тиньков:

Why would it be?

Тони Хейес:

It is pretty clear that what’s yours here is not always yours, somebody can come and take it away.

Олег Тиньков:

But already for 20 years nobody is taking the property away. I mean even oligarchs who got their property quite a crazy way, they still own their property, right?

Тони Хейес:

They own their property, but they could loose it. It has happened.

Олег Тиньков:

Do you think they still could?

Тони Хейес:

I think they still could. I think there are rules, I think they are clear and I think if you do not work within those rules and boundaries, the state can come and take anything away.

Олег Тиньков:

In US do you think it is the case?

Тони Хейес:

I think the legal and justice system in the US works more fairly for the people than the system here.

Олег Тиньков:

We will see now Golden Sacks case.

Тони Хейес:

There are exceptions! I think there are exceptions, you are right and we will see.

Олег Тиньков:

This are bounds on my short term thinking but what about win-win situation? Why would Russians think that they want to get more than the partner?

Тони Хейес:

It is always a problem with us in our business now when we hiring people, that we do not want people who are come in at the beginning to feel like they have worked and they have built the company and it is theirs. So it is a part of our interview system: when we’re interviewing the candidates to work with us we tell them the story, because there are many examples of people working in a company when starts up, they did not put money but they did a lot of the work to get the company to the next level. And there’s something that happens here, when people believe that they own the company, they have the right to own the company. One way I work on that problem – I work in my companies, I am not sitting somewhere having somebody to build the company just to invest money and take the money out.

Олег Тиньков:

But it is also the way to do – it is capitalism.

Тони Хейес:

It is. But Russia is very young in this capitalism, 20 years is really nothing. So I think that we are going to see a lot of changes.

Олег Тиньков:

The main idea of this show is obviously to show young guys - because the Internet is where most of the young generation of Russia, mostly from the regions, is - to show them that there are lots of possibilities to start their own business, there are still lots of possibilities, despite we are not in 1993, to do some service and other things and we encourage them to be entrepreneur because we truly believe, me and Oleg - probably the only ones in this country - that more entrepreneurs out there mean better life for everybody and the country is developing faster and better. Would you comment on that?

Тони Хейес:

I think it is absolutely true, I think Russians travel more than they ever did, they see things, they have ideas and they bring them home and they start them. So my new business - “Retail Profile” - it is a brand new concept for Russia, it has never been done in Russia. We’ve had a huge success despite the crisis. And the people – they are selling things that have never been sold in Russia. So you travel, you see a good idea, you bring it home and you go for it. And the thing that makes a great entrepreneur is having the guts to go for it. Not everybody fits into the box of being able to do that. But I want to answer a question you asked me before “Do I have any regrets?” And I really don’t. I don’t speak Russian, there is no excuse for that, so I won’t make any. But I met my wife here, Tatyana.

Олег Тиньков:

Yes, I would like to ask you about your family. Go ahead

Тони Хейес:

Our son Paul is 20, he is in the University in Barcelona, we have a daughter, Jessica, 12, is now in the 7th grade.

Олег Тиньков:

She is 12 already?

Тони Хейес:

Yes. And we just had a son 11 month ago, Luc Anthony, named partly after me.

Олег Тиньков:

Congratulation on-line!

Тони Хейес:

Thank you! And he is super! Having a baby in the family again, you know, Jessie haven’t been a baby for already 10 years, well it just gives you so much more interesting excitement and it makes me feel younger and feel the motivation. It is great! I would probably have another one.

Олег Тиньков:

It is a good idea!

Тони Хейес:

So had I not come here I would not meet Tatyana, we would’ve never made this super family.

Олег Тиньков:

What would be the main difference between Russian women and any other women? Because I feel for foreigners when they meet a Russian woman there is really a kind of conspiracy, there is something beyond. What would it be? What is the difference between Russian women and any other women?

Тони Хейес:

Russian women generally speaking…

Олег Тиньков:

Go ahead, Tony, do not forget it is called “Business secrets with Oleg Tinkov”

Тони Хейес:

They’re proud to be women, they are proud to be sexy, they want to be sexy, they want to be attractive, they want to be smart, they want to be independent, they want to be strong. And most Russian women I know really fit that bill, there are all of those things. They like wearing high heels, cause they know it makes their legs look great and they look at everything from above. There was no feminists movement here and there never would be, because Russian women do not need a feminists movement. They do work. If you come in our office, I know you’d think it is sexism, but we hire only women. They turn out to be great workers, we find them to be greatly dedicated and focused and smart and committed to the business, really dependable. Russian women, in my opinion, they are super, fantastic and my wife is one of them, she is great!

Олег Анисимов:

Could you give an advice for a young man who is living in Nizhniy Novgorod now.

Олег Тиньков:

Make a statement for a young, potential Russian 18-20 years old entrepreneur. What would you tell him?

Тони Хейес:

In my experience, anywhere in the world if you want to work you can work, if you have a great idea, if you can’t do it on a large scale - you can do it on a small scale. And most great things in this world have come from small ideas, from small people and they’ve grown into big ideas and big businesses. If you are young in today’s world, you have so much opportunity that is really not an excuse!

Олег Тиньков:

Thank you very much! Супер, Тони, рад, I am so glad that I’ve invited you here and I have not seen you for ages, but that was excellent!