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Dec 2008

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Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille

you're pulling raw numbers... did you watch that bears game you mentioned 3 quarters... we trailed HUGE and EARLY... and had to pass more to get back in it -- often in no huddle drives -- only to fall away again in the last few minutes.

I did watch the Bears game...but if you're going to put ALL the blame on Haley for LACK of passing offense when the team ISN'T in the hole early, then you'd better give him at least SOME of the credit for the abundance of passing offense when the team "trails huge and early." And as Slapstick pointed out, after the first game, Haley shifted to more of a pass-oriented offense, regardless of whether they were behind or not. Go back and check the play-by-play of the games.

Originally Posted by SteelerOfDeVille

You say you'd fire him, but, then you defend him with stats that are misleading... unlike many, I'm not saying it's the 70's offense... simply that the offensive plays are poor in design and lack creativity. I sat in the stands at the Bears game going, "great, down by 2 scores and another run on first... try a pass". When they did, it was successful more times than not and helped them get back into the game.

I'm defending the truth, not Haley. I'd fire Haley, like you, because I think he lacks creativity...and because he does a poor job when it come to situational play calling...and because he's not putting the players in the best position to win games...and because it would send a message to the rest of the team to produce, or else. But not because he's "shackling" Ben or not passing enough.

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Originally Posted by TheMick7

No no, Tomlin said waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after the fact, that Haley was his hire.

I guess the following month is "waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay after the fact"? Haley was hired in February 2012. In a March 2012 interview (Tomlin's first since the Steelers' loss to the Broncos in the playoffs), Tomlin stated that he was the one who decided to hire Haley:

"Pittsburgh Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said Tuesday that he, not team President Art Rooney II, made the decisions to fire offensive coordinator Bruce Arians and replace him with Todd Haley. Tomlin met the press at the NFL owners meeting in West Palm Beach, Fla. It was his first session with the media since the day after the Steelers lost a Jan. 8 NFL playoff game to the Denver Broncos.The Steelers announced on Jan. 20 that Arians had 'retired.' Arians, who'd been offensive coordinator for five seasons, later told the York (Pa.) Daily Record that he wanted to return but was not offered a new contract. Arians is now offensive coordinator of the Indianapolis Colts.

'Football is about change. He (Arians) served us well, and he's a really good football coach. I thought it was time for a change,' said Tomlin.

Did Rooney II tell him to make the change, as has been speculated?
'He didn't,' said Tomlin. 'I don't know where some of these perceptions come from. I don't break my neck and try to combat them in any way. I don't know where they come from, I don't. And I hired Todd Haley as well. Was that your next question?'
[URL]http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2012/03/coach-tomlin-says-he-made-steelers-calls-on-firinghiring/1#.UlRqWFMmySo[/URL]

Originally Posted by TheMick7

But when it transpired it was Art II who said HE felt it was time for a change.

Source?

Originally Posted by TheMick7

It was Art II who said he wouldn't address HOW Arians was fired in the first place.

Source?

Originally Posted by TheMick7

You have to look at WHEN Ben is throwing. MOST of Ben's passing attempts are in the fourth quarter, when they are way behind and pressed for time, and pressed for points with no time to run.

Ben is throwing throughout the game. The stats for the past couple of games show that in quarters 1-3, the offense attempted to pass more than 60% of the time.

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Originally Posted by flippy

I'm not sure this is just a Haley thing. A lot of OC's like to pass out of jumbo packages because of the defensive match ups. I'd try to get Brown the ball in these situations because he's such a good open field runner.

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Originally Posted by BradshawsHairdresser

I did watch the Bears game...but if you're going to put ALL the blame on Haley for LACK of passing offense when the team ISN'T in the hole early, then you'd better give him at least SOME of the credit for the abundance of passing offense when the team "trails huge and early." And as Slapstick pointed out, after the first game, Haley shifted to more of a pass-oriented offense, regardless of whether they were behind or not. Go back and check the play-by-play of the games.

I'm defending the truth, not Haley. I'd fire Haley, like you, because I think he lacks creativity...and because he does a poor job when it come to situational play calling...and because he's not putting the players in the best position to win games...and because it would send a message to the rest of the team to produce, or else. But not because he's "shackling" Ben or not passing enough.

sounds like our discussion is slightly different thatn your other one... we don't really disagree with each other... in the end, we both think he sux as a play designer and play caller.

i'm not on the "back to the 70's" bandwagon - in fact, the 70's team at least took an occasional shot downfield, so, it's not even a fair comparison because his shots downfield are even fewer... that he throws a lot of "under 10 yard pass plays" to me is KILLING this offense. i know, i know, they can't block. and it's a catch 22. HOWEVER, you face a lot more people near the LOS when there is no threat of a downfield pass... just sayin'... even one of the bigger/key deep ones to AB in the Bears game was a busted play that Ben threw upfield after AB had broken to the sideline... it was just Ben being Ben