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There has been a thread about competition and it caused me to reflect on what we have done in Relentless over the last year.

First let me say that we (leaders of relentless) realized that completely starving out members of our server that were not in our clan was not a healthy thing for the server, and long term the health of the server effects the health of the clan. It’s a ying/yang effect. We had to ask what we needed/could do.

We discussed a lot of different concepts but ultimately decided that as a dominant clan we had a responsibility to our clan mates to reserve for us what only we alone could obtain. A large part of this realization was due to the line of people waiting for top end game upgrades (please don’t comment on this concept as the topic of drop rates has been beaten to death and VR is clear on their strategy). Thus, anything we did as a clan to help the health of our server refer to be done in a manner that allowed our hard working hardcore clan mates to have accesss to end game upgrades.

We did find in our discussions that we had a lot of items sitting in our banks that we were sure individuals in the community would love to have access to, items we deemed as trash or worthless. Furthermore, we wanted to undo the perception that we were hoarding all this amazing loot. We had individuals in other clans accuse us of holding onto enough Crowns and EDL Arcanes to gear 50 toons. This was just simply not true. Even with the adjustments that VR has made to Snorri we were still voting on who got the next set of crowns. But that was a reality the rest of the server wasn’t aware of.

The forming of an alliance: we realized that there were some end game players we didn’t want in our clan but that people needed an avenue to access end game content. There were players on our server that were level 225+ that had never killed Mordris. We still had to farm and kill Mordris and Necro due to the fact that the helmets from Mord and Rings from Necro remain end game best of class for all intent and purposes.

Originally our plan was to stop awarding DKP for Mord and Necro once BLoodthorn loot was able to replace those items. Once we realized that this wasn’t going to be a reality we had to come up with alternative plans.

Coming up with the concept of an alliance kind of fell in our lap. Lady Von and Jansen of our server were two individuals that had applied to relentless and were accepted but decided they wanted to be in a clan that was aimed at helping new players. This presented us with a unique opportunity. Here are two leaders of a clan that have a good relationship with relentless, as a matter of fact they were wanted by relentless. Discussions began on how to include them or bring them to relentless. We had tried “feeder” clans in the past and they always fail miserably. Then it happened, Praetorian and I were talking one day and we thought of the idea of an alliance, one in which we share our banks of lesser bosses (bosses lower than 220) and even as individuals prove themselves to have Integrity and play well in a positive manner with our clan we would allow them to “progress” in their access to end game bosses; up to and including BLoodthorn.

We took the idea to the clan. A little visit at at first their was no denying that the server health is important to our health as a clan. The clan eventually agreed that we would form an alliance under the terms that, until drops are more abundant, relentless maintain Doch, Seed, and Exquisite Anointed upgrades, as well as our leaders vote for who receives EDL weapon upgrades and all arcanes and ancient runes are banked with relentless. The leaders were to vote on weapon upgrades for the entire alliance not just relentless.

We took this proposal to Jansen and Lady Von as well as athe other leaders of Prestige Worlwide and an alliance was born.

Today we still stand together at bosses and work together to progress in the game.

I challenge leaders of other dominant clan servers to assess your situations and while our alliance might not work for you maybe you can find something that works for your server that includes more individuals than just your clan.

World - GwydionClan - Relentless Relentlessly killing Bloodthorn in search of the hidden helmet that is buried deep in the coding of RNG. We would love to see you join us on our quest for the hidden helmet.

That's a really good idea in general. Glad it's been working out for you guys.

Not sure how feasible it would be on another world with a somewhat "bitter" history in terms of rival clans. Then add in the people who constantly make new alts to sneak into other clans pretending to be mains. All of that can create a serious lack of trust.

We tried a feeder lately run by some clannies and a couple of the people who joined ended up being agents/members of a rival clan. They "worked" (really just leveled) their way up to the main clan and ended up scamming clannies and banks out of gear, old and chests. Hence a good reason for distrust.

I do hate the thought if all those "trash drops" sitting in bank when there are players outside of the clan who would love to get them. That's why I had previously suggested being able to merge gear of the same grade into a higher grade so theres less bank clutter.

Also thought of maybe suggesting monthly or weekly give away events on the server but then we get back to the issue of people not wanting others to get drops we worked for.....especially not certain people.

Still I'm glad you guys found a way to make it work and wish you all the best with your alliance.

Sweefish wrote:There has been a thread about competition and it caused me to reflect on what we have done in Relentless over the last year.

First let me say that we (leaders of relentless) realized that completely starving out members of our server that were not in our clan was not a healthy thing for the server, and long term the health of the server effects the health of the clan. It’s a ying/yang effect. We had to ask what we needed/could do.

We discussed a lot of different concepts but ultimately decided that as a dominant clan we had a responsibility to our clan mates to reserve for us what only we alone could obtain. A large part of this realization was due to the line of people waiting for top end game upgrades (please don’t comment on this concept as the topic of drop rates has been beaten to death and VR is clear on their strategy). Thus, anything we did as a clan to help the health of our server refer to be done in a manner that allowed our hard working hardcore clan mates to have accesss to end game upgrades.

We did find in our discussions that we had a lot of items sitting in our banks that we were sure individuals in the community would love to have access to, items we deemed as trash or worthless. Furthermore, we wanted to undo the perception that we were hoarding all this amazing loot. We had individuals in other clans accuse us of holding onto enough Crowns and EDL Arcanes to gear 50 toons. This was just simply not true. Even with the adjustments that VR has made to Snorri we were still voting on who got the next set of crowns. But that was a reality the rest of the server wasn’t aware of.

The forming of an alliance: we realized that there were some end game players we didn’t want in our clan but that people needed an avenue to access end game content. There were players on our server that were level 225+ that had never killed Mordris. We still had to farm and kill Mordris and Necro due to the fact that the helmets from Mord and Rings from Necro remain end game best of class for all intent and purposes.

Originally our plan was to stop awarding DKP for Mord and Necro once BLoodthorn loot was able to replace those items. Once we realized that this wasn’t going to be a reality we had to come up with alternative plans.

Coming up with the concept of an alliance kind of fell in our lap. Lady Von and Jansen of our server were two individuals that had applied to relentless and were accepted but decided they wanted to be in a clan that was aimed at helping new players. This presented us with a unique opportunity. Here are two leaders of a clan that have a good relationship with relentless, as a matter of fact they were wanted by relentless. Discussions began on how to include them or bring them to relentless. We had tried “feeder” clans in the past and they always fail miserably. Then it happened, Praetorian and I were talking one day and we thought of the idea of an alliance, one in which we share our banks of lesser bosses (bosses lower than 220) and even as individuals prove themselves to have Integrity and play well in a positive manner with our clan we would allow them to “progress” in their access to end game bosses; up to and including BLoodthorn.

We took the idea to the clan. A little visit at at first their was no denying that the server health is important to our health as a clan. The clan eventually agreed that we would form an alliance under the terms that, until drops are more abundant, relentless maintain Doch, Seed, and Exquisite Anointed upgrades, as well as our leaders vote for who receives EDL weapon upgrades and all arcanes and ancient runes are banked with relentless. The leaders were to vote on weapon upgrades for the entire alliance not just relentless.

We took this proposal to Jansen and Lady Von as well as athe other leaders of Prestige Worlwide and an alliance was born.

Today we still stand together at bosses and work together to progress in the game.

I challenge leaders of other dominant clan servers to assess your situations and while our alliance might not work for you maybe you can find something that works for your server that includes more individuals than just your clan.

Yeah, over on Mabon we have a completely different style of play when it comes to clans, alliances etc. Usually when there is one end game clan, the other smallee clans will come together to overthrow the main clan, example of this being a month ago Wolfgang was the main clan, few weeks later Novalis and another clan teamed up to overthrow Wolfgang and now Novalis are the main clan, now Wolfgang have merged with a clan called Dont Starve in efforts to overthrow Novalis which isnt exactly going well for them but theyre trying. So over here its usually the rest of the server vs the main clan.

There would never be gear distributed from end game clans on Mabon due to greedy leaders for the most part, example of this being some of Wolfgangs leaders selling bank items for gold 100k-25m items or leaders that just focus on their own clan by letting their members bid on what they want and if any other players outside of the clan want in they get the chance to be voted on.

I know there would never be a server alliance on Mabon just due to some players hating each other, corrupt leadees in certain clans which no one would want to ally with and the loss of comp which people would miss on the server.

Props to coming up with a server agreement also, I knoe each server will have their own ideal way of running things such as some wanting comp while others would want the whole server working together. Its a good idea that you guys have come up with as itll be more efficient having everyone being together to kill one boss, meaning youll have the numbers ready and only the strats to get in place like for the upcoming update.

Good job Relentless! You understand the game concept wich isn't very common among dominating clans. If a clan is totally dominating a server the server will slowly fade away as today it's very easy to reach 220 and after that there is nothing to do if you are into bossing and raiding. This will eventually also cause the dominating clan to fade away, as we seen with Avalon on Morrigan and some other ex. dominating clans. So as you say the health of the server also benefits the health of the dominating clan.

Wont fit all servers since in some certain clans have chosen methods to compete with dont sit in line with others' standards, such as griefing for example without giving out punishments (encouraging instead, which is why many of our rival clan's players have left them).

That’s the reason it exists. Gwydion has had a history of feeders and alliances that crumble within weeks or days of them starting.

Wanting it to work, and finding a way to create an environment worth keeping around was the end goal.

Constant communication with interclan leadership on issues, taking temperature checks with current members on how they felt things were going.

Identifying small issues before they became larger ones.

Also, knowing that people would make mistakes, get upset, and that actions would happen to place stress on the alliance were going to happen; no matter how much we tried to prevent them. We had to discuss as a team of leaders how to rectify issues and make amends when members broke rules or accidentally did something that wasn’t fair to our alliance-mates.

In the end, Gwydion saw a large amount of server transfers as the alliance grew and people heard about what we are doing.

That’s the reason it exists. Gwydion has had a history of feeders and alliances that crumble within weeks or days of them starting.

Wanting it to work, and finding a way to create an environment worth keeping around was the end goal.

Constant communication with interclan leadership on issues, taking temperature checks with current members on how they felt things were going.

Identifying small issues before they became larger ones.

Also, knowing that people would make mistakes, get upset, and that actions would happen to place stress on the alliance were going to happen; no matter how much we tried to prevent them. We had to discuss as a team of leaders how to rectify issues and make amends when members broke rules or accidentally did something that wasn’t fair to our alliance-mates.

In the end, Gwydion saw a large amount of server transfers as the alliance grew and people heard about what we are doing.

Well... maturity did exist on the server. And then you all recruited Sly, Krum, and me

Jokes aside what’s been said here so far sums about my thoughts on the subject.Between rele and the greater gwyd atmosphere we were able to build an alliance and have it work, even with the original chief of the clan that we are allied with being a leader in our main competition rn!

I think the biggest reason it’s worked is gwyd is a smaller ish server and we are tight knit and understand each other enough to work together without being all in same clan.Won’t work everywhere certainly, played on enough other servers to see that sometimes it just isn’t possible, no matter how hard the dom clan may try to do it.

I think the last alliance that formed on Arawn was between Res and DS which fell extremely quickly. One of the main reasons was the massive difference between gear/levels. For example at the time DS did not have lockers to compare to Res so Res lock groups mainly was comprised of their own toons leaving DS lockers out unless needed filling. I think it lasted a week or 2 tbh but was never officially ended for a while later. But that only occured for dragonlord bosses i believe. Not one clan has had a good alliance or good relations with Resurgence whether they wanted to or not since that DragonSouls alliance, correct me if im wrong though. Res did gift DS with dragonlord horns though as an initial alliance gift or something similar.