Posted: Sat May 05, 2007 10:13 pm Post subject: Ranger/Gator/ Mule side x side available at hawks for rent ?

We have given this topic a great deal of thought over the past winter months, and have talked with many folks on the Island, including Grahm. The last step is to get some feed back and thoughts from the folks on the BBI BB.

We would have some Polaris Ranger side X sides available at Hawks for rent to the public on a daily, weekend, or weekly basis.. Great for tours of the Island on roads and trails you don't want to take your car on.. or just seeing the Island as you have always wanted, nice and SLOW, and pull off anywhere to explore..

Rates have not been finalized as of this date, however we are researching all the rates charged elsewhere in Michigan and other states, and we feel that we can be very competitive and reasonable.

Now for the question.... What do you all think about this service ?
Please respond with the understanding that we realize the final rate structure will determine the amount of usage..

Thanks for you input.. Thanks_________________" Luck doesn't just happen, we work for it "

They used to rent old cars at the hotel. The only problem was keeping them running. It was a good idea then and I think you have hit on an Edison lightbulb idea how.

I just yesterday saw a couple in one enjoying themselves on the north shore. They only half knew where they were going though. It might be a good idea to post little signs and have maps to help the explorers._________________mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."

Great idea, but I'm sure you will check out the liability aspects to both the owners, as well as possibly Hawk's. I know from previous business that rental of equipment insurance fees are huge, if it is even available. What has our world come to that we can't even have fun without worrying about getting sued for something.

This coming from someone (myself) that currently keeps a 4wheeler on the island and will bring my mule up this summer... to be used for actual work and transportation. This may include occasion exploration.

Will they rent? Most likely.

Will there be problems? Most definately.
Is this good for the island? I am not so sure.

Some food for thought. The "clueless factor".

I wouldn't consider turning someone loose in/on my personally owned ORVs unless they had experiance/training and knew exactly what they were doing which includes knowing limitations of the vehical. Environmental awareness all beyond that.

There are places on BBI where ORV traffic would be considered low impact... and other areas where they simply do not belong, even if possible to access such areas. One a trail is traveled, beaten down and exposed as a ORV trail, then the more traffic there will be on it. In many cases compromising remote quiet wildlife areas otherwise rarely accessed by foot. This is an important consideration many islanders are acutely aware of... which accounts for opposition to ORVs.

How does a clueless "environmentally numb" tourist make such a distinction when they have no idea where they are going, how they got there or how to get back? There are places on BBI where it is really easy to get turned around. I wouldn't say "lost" but quite disoriented. Been there done that. Once you get into the islands interior... on some of these two tracks that wind around for miles, sometimes in circles, you get a feel for how large BBI actually is.

Steve, You mentioned (in a discussion we had) about putting GPS locators in these. 2 way radios, as well, might be a very good idea.

There will be recovery missions, count on that. These vehicals are too heavy to manually muscle out of a jam. They can be rolled, stuck in the muck, wedged between trees, straddled over logs, flat tires, break downs... pick one. Probability is high when operated by someone with no experiance. So what then? Try and walk out? From where to where? So then the hunt for both the vehical and the operators who abandoned it?

I know my way around the island well enough to stay out of trouble and get home. I normally go with someone else. I always carry a compass, GPS and phone. If I am going solo, I tell someone where I am going and about when I will be back... just in case. Check out-check in.

I also think many on the island are becoming less tolerant of ORVs with increased numbers and use. (those not frequenting this site). Put this into a commercial perspective, over and above responsible private use and the "real feedback" might start pouring in...

We start having incidents, and it will affect everyone including private ORV owners that are knowledgeable and responsible. responsible being the key word here. Those who have operated a wheeler or utility vehical for any length of time... have probably had enough close calls to heighten awareness. They do not mix well with full sized vehicals. Operators of full sized vehicals don't see or anticipate them.

Indian River just passed an ordinance banning golf carts and Utility vehicals from city streets. Too many of them, too many collisions with cars, too many irresponsible careless operators. One more privledge off the list.

You may want to go through the necessary steps to have these utility vehicals upgraded to street legal/plated/titled. This could possibly lower insurance liability by changing status from ORV to "truck". You would have to check into this.

Asking for input? Here's the flipside. Maybe a money maker? Maybe a pandora's box of problems. I am not sure GW will appreciate recovery missions all summer long._________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

Better improve cell phone usuage on the island then. You can bet that there will a need for emergency or whatever from somewhere. We all know that not everyone drives these things properly. Accidents will happen. How will emergency crews be able to get back into the woods. Are they equipped to do this? Lots of things should be considered....

Joined: 09 May 2002Posts: 848Location: Big Rapids, MI., but wishing I was on BBI

Posted: Sun May 06, 2007 12:19 pm Post subject:

I have had lots of people inquire about canoes, kayaks, rowboats and small motor boats, only a couple of folks have asked about quads and the like. I would think something non-motorized would be waaaay less of a hassle for you._________________Come spend some time at our place...http://www.bridge-view.net

I have had lots of people inquire about canoes, kayaks, rowboats and small motor boats, only a couple of folks have asked about quads and the like. I would think something non-motorized would be waaaay less of a hassle for you.

BINGO!

I just bought a economy kayak at Dunhams for under $300. Get 2-3 Two seaters. Rent some of these. Let the newbee curious tourists see the beauty of BBI's inland lakes. Hopefully some education and appreciation would be gained from such an experiance. This would be a far better message to those, new to the island.

A "Jurrassic Park Tour" via ORV? OK... a sober tour guide/taxi driver comes with the trip._________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

I think Bruce Lord really hit it home. A bunch of tourists that come over and rent an OUV pretty much have carte blanche to go wherever they want and to destroy whatever they please. Also, how can you guarantee that they're not going to go out and get blasted and then plow it into a tree. I appreciate the entrepreneurial spirit behind the idea, but the alternative like kayaks or other, more tame vehicles might be better. Just my 2 cents.

Conis .. are you applying for the job? (Jurassic Park Tour" via ORV? OK... a sober tour guide/taxi driver comes with the trip.). I do understand and appreciate those concerns voiced.. Possibly we could rent them as a package deal including a canoe or kayak, and a tent... Endless combinations of sporting gear.. possibly box lunches provided by Hawks , some frozen burgers and a small propane grill, etc. etc. keep the comments coming, and please vote, and while you are on the Net., take a look at what we are talking about.. NOT what is commonly known as a quad.. http://www.polarispowersports.com/ranger/tm.shtml Top speed 25 MPH with the wind at your back.
__________________________________" Luck doesn't just happen, we work for it "

I guess I have a bad attitude or something but I just dont understand the point of this. Invite people to come over here to ride around, make noise, throw out trash, have accidents and start fires. For what ? Am I missing something? If so please explain. Please tell them not to pull off and explore in my yard. Maybe I like the minature golf course idea better...........money? we need to look beyond that don't we.

Bruce, you don't have a bad attitude, however you must have had some real BAD experiences with some folks. BTW we are not " inviting people to come over and mess things up... they will already be on the Island. As a courtesy to you.. we will provide you with a sign " Tourist and Dippos Stay off the back yard, If you are reading this sign. Please respect our property " BTW we are not talking about a fleet of 20 or 30, just 3 or 4._________________" Luck doesn't just happen, we work for it "

Bruce, your not missing anything. Fact is, some of us see the island as a beautiful, peaceful, unspoiled, wilderness retreat, to be enjoyed by property owners and their families and guests. Others can't help looking for ways to exploit the wild, unique qualities we treasure, for profit and personal gain, regardless of the potential environmental and safety implications. I am opposed to the idea. I would say, that if you want to ride any kind of machine around on the island, you should have to buy it/rent it on the mainland and haul it across on the ferry yourself. In other words, let's not make it any easier for people to defile our beautiful island. If you are a property owner, and you choose to keep an ORV of some sort on the island.....more power to ya! You have a vested interest in maintaining the natural splendor of Bois Blanc. I would think that you would exercise due caution and restraint, with regards to your "off-road" adventures. I doubt that the "weekend warriors" who would come across to rent these machines to go camping/exploring, would feel the same sense of responsibility to the preservation of the place that we all love._________________West End Piper

It is a the few that mess it up for the rest. The renter of these machines would need to choose wisely. The renter should set high standards and also have a pretty high retainer fee to cover damages to the machine or other damages. There will always be a few bad ones, but with a good policy in place they can be kept to a minimum.

I remember renting 12 foot aluminum boats from the hotel. It was so fun and you felt so free. We explored the waters of Bois Blanc for a whole day for $5. We did have to supply our own outboard though.

It is rare on BBI to come up with some plan that actually makes a profit. With insurance and upkeep along with the initial investment, it may not fly. It would take quite a while to make a profit if any at all. It would probably bring people in so money can be made in other ways though._________________mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."

Kawasaki Mules and I believe Polaris Rangers and Deere Gators are pre equipped with a 25mph governor. This classifies them as a UTV (Utility vehicle ) rather than an ATV... Which means (theoretically) all you need is a slow moving triangle on the back and you are good to go on the roads so long as you follow the same rules as a tractor... moving over for traffic etc.

NOW... Here are some FUZZY Laws.

Follow along.

The DNR, however isn't buying this UTV classification and classifies any unlicensed vehicle as an ORV. This I know because I went around in circles with them 25 times about using my Kawasaki Mule in the Pigeon River State Forest where all ORVS are banned (For good reason). Street Legal ORVS (ie jeeps, dune buggies etc) are permitted BUT still require an ORV sticker ONLY if they depart "forest roads" (defined as those roads which can be traveled by a passenger car) and run the two tracks.

ATVs (4 wheelers) cannot be upgraded to "street legal" because they do NOT have a differential. (almost all have solid rear axels) Which makes them prone to roll over on pavement.

Golf Carts and UTVs can be upgraded to street legal. I know because I did this to my Mule in order to use in in the PRSF and PO the DNR at the same time. With the recent ban in Indian River on UTVs and golf carts, many are Upgrading UTVs to street legal, much to the chagrin of the local cops who were previously unaware this was possible, legal, not expensive and fairly simple to do. A "car" can be any size...

First, get a safety inspection form from Sec. State or download one from their website. Free. Then add whatever equipment is needed. Most required equipment is already stock-standard on a UTV.

Then call the sheriff department. Give the deputy the form and he will inspect the vehicle to make sure all the stuff is there and certify the VIN number. Takes 5 minutes.

Then go to the Sec State with the signed form where they take the Certificate or origin (old title) and issue a new title. At that time my Mule became a "Kawasaki Pick Up truck". (The Sec State has no sense of humor whatsoever anymore... At one time they would allow home made kit cars to be named by the owner ie "The butt-kicker 3300")

Then get PL PD insurance and back to SoS for a license plate...

Then you are street legal. You can drive your UTV through downtown Detroit or the Pigeon River SF if you so choose... I 75 is probably not wise._________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

I don't know if it would work out or not but nothing does unless you try it. I have a polaris ranger on the island and I love it. I haven't messed up anybody's yard or the trees yet. But maybe we can get some fuggies from mackinac to do that. It is no different the renting a car over there. I don't believe that you haVE A PROBLEM WITH THE POLARIS Rangers or Mule's not as much problems as you have with the motor bikes or four wheelers. Most of that is from drinking and driving. I haven't even seen any trails tore up. And you are asking the people that already have a four wheeler or vechile on the Island. It stands to reason that they don;t want anybody else to have one to use over there.

Last summer, kids had the 4 wheeler trail between Snow beach and Thompson all churned to hell. A lot of it is muck. We knew who did it, underage, GW got involved. another story... 4 wheelers and dirt bikes especially likely account for most of the trail damage.

Most of the established wheeler trails are just wide enough to accomodate a wheeler (or dirt bike) but nothing much wider.

Most of the larger utility vehicles are 55-60" wide, nearly as wide as a jeep and therefor will not fit on a wheeler trail and confined to more established two tracks. I just wonder if they would get stuck trying?

I think... if you limited rental to adults (21^), got a security/damage deposit (credit card hold) and maybe had a one page sheet of what they needed to know and NOT attempt (driving on the beach etc). ??? I suppose there is no way to tell how it will go unless it is tried.

I missed my own point, last post... You might find insurance is much lower if you have these rangers retitled as street legal vehicles (w plates) than if inusured as an ORV. Then they become rental cars.

4-5 year ago, I was plowing snow with my Mule, around town for $$$ and found it was cheaper to have it licensed than add a rider on homeowners. When done for the season, cancel the PLPD insurance and take the plate off. Then it is an ORV again? At least it is worth looking into. I believe that if it were classed as a car (rental), the drivers auto insurance kicks in?_________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

My beast started as a KAWA Mule in '97, Then became a Kawasaki Pickup Truck ( retitled and plated 2001) Then it bcame a buttkicker 3000. Soon it will become a Perialis' Twinky Ranger Search and Recovery module.

This Mule has been modified to the max. Lift Kit (17" clearance), oversize lug floatation tires, transmission regeared and beefed, engine modified, (govenor removed). 4wheel drive with locking differentials (all 4 wheels pull) This beast will climb a tree. I have about 1000 hour on it, 950 have been brute force grunt work... BTW "MULE" stands for Multi Use Light Equipment. Military uses a lot of Mules. Mule was the first UTV on the market, in the 80's. A TON of aftermarket equipment is available

The "thing" in the front is a log loader/lifter. Operated by two winches. About a ton capacity. Great for loading heavy things into a pickup, moving logs, changing tires on a car. Lifting stuck rangers out of the muck.

Had it on BBI a couple times. Back this summer. Work. Been an awesome tool and great investment. Literally use it for everything. Plowing, grading, mowing ditches...

Last summer, I had one of the "little Mules" on BBI. Sold it to Dawn and Tim. Rand good, easy on gas... got around fine with 2WD. I think the bigger one spoiled me.

_________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

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