first off give thanx to those who helped make the path to birdies for all of us!

now back to the original post.

i went into the shop wed to redeem my script hopefully. i let thomas know i live over 2 hours away and didn't have the script card with me. he was willing to help me out. Thanx.

i needed some backstraps. but they only carry the entry level ones, which i dont really care for.
i looked for destroyers. none to be seen.
rocs. nope
classic rocs. nope
xd + maybe. nope
must be selling alotta plastic

well.... onto the lost n found
omg my favorite leopard. which i lost at lakewood in the pond.
yes i fd up. i no. i made it go swimmin. ya ya ya
i tried to fish it out. no luck
i lost this disc one month ago with no phone call

there it is!!! sweet! anyone who plays with me, knows i love that leopard( thanx nate). they also know i am a pretty outspoken person.
so when i saw my disc, i said to thomas " hey.... look.... its my favorite leopard. i love this thing. (i did a happy dance too) i so glad to see it. you can see my pdga # right here,( slightly blacked out but legible) and my name and number on the back. ( I even showed you my pdga nuber on the disc and offered to goto my car and show others marked exactly the same)
Well 8$ hugh?"
he simply replied "It happens"
WOW

then i looked on the wall for a couple wall hangers. not alot for me to choose from at a somewhat reasonable price. my total for 3 discs was 70$ plus my used disc for 8$ plus tax. total was 83$ and change. i used the script for 80 and paid the rest in cash.

That IS what happened

i understand running a buisness, and needing to make a profit. but not this way.
i wanted to get my disc back, so i paid the money.

we should be working together to promote the sport, not trying to divide the plahyers.
the way the situation was handled was poorly in my opinion. but again, its my opinion.

Actually your total was $75 for wall discs and then $8 for a total of $83. What I did was not charge tax for you for your scrip and then I ran the extra $3 you owed as a used disc and tax is put on that. You paid a total of $3.29 after tax. I do remember you saying something along those lines but my mind did that not make the jump that the used disc you were getting was what you were talking about. I have a lot of conversations throughout my day where people tell me/ask me about lost & found discs and how they get there and how peoples names are on them, etc. I guess I did not understand that was what you were talking about and I apologize. You should have been nice about it and made a bigger deal about it when buying it and I would have made it right for you. We could have settled this communication error in a much more sound way than you complaining and having one of your friends whine here on the forums.

If you were called an didn't get it on time that's your fault but I would have made it right anyway, if someone else turned it in and scratched out your name I would have made it right. You could have been more vocal about it while here or called me on the phone or sent me a message here, there are lots of better ways of dealing with this issue than the way you have dealt with it. I'm sorry you had to pay for your own disc, Mark and I apologize that I didn't get that while you were in and yes it could have been handled better by both of us.

Sometimes my mind boggles. It's so deep my mind actually boggles.

~ Cyndi Lauper ~

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I am a Lakewood local. I have played Lakewood 2-5 times a week for the last 10 years or so. I don't understand why all the bashing on Keith and Chainbangers. When the course was being changed and Keith was taking over I was intially concerned. Mostly because of fear of change and the unknown I suppose. However I soon discovered that those concerns were unfounded. As far I can tell Keith (and his group) are stand up individuals that love disc and want to make things better for other disc golfers. When all the work and new teepads were going in I will say that I saw Keith, by himself, working a LOT more than I saw any other people out there working. That is not to say others didn't help. I did see many others out there working but I SAW KEITH WORKING ALONE MUCH MORE. This by itself elevated my perception of Keith to someone that really does care about disc golf.

Next encounter with Keith directly was when I purchased a disc from the shop. I had played a few rounds with it and realized that I didn't really like it. I metioned this to Keith when I stopped by the shop and he asks me if I would like to trade it in for something else. I don't remember the exact details now, like I had to throw in a couple of bucks maybe, but WOW where else would do this for you?! I couldn't believe it. Keith now elevated to superstar status in my mind. Is this something a scammer or some just concerned with money would do?

As far as I'm concerned Lakewood is a great course, not the same as it was but it was going to change regardless. I believe it has likely ended up far, far better than it would have without Keith taking over. So, really if you somehow think Keith is a scammer or trying to mess things up you should re-examine your information. You're barking up the wrong tree.

Thanks for all your hard work Keith! I definitely appreciate it. Don't let the haters get to you. Haters gonna hate!!

I can't comment on Seatac or tournaments since I don't play either any more.

also, yes please bring back Lakewood Open. I want a three round tourney at Lakewood. I would play that tournament.

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Yeah, its not like as a direct result of his efforts, the city for the first time since the course was installed actually mowed the fairways... Have you played Seatac lately, it seemed like it was in awesome condition, although that was almost 2 weeks ago now. Must have done some serious growing in that time - I remember when I moved here I thought the locals only played it in the winter (rarely saw anyone out there,

Yes, the community owns SeaTac - totally agreed, BUT as I stated the community would likely own nothing if the club hadn't expended the effort to do so. Having been banned from SeaTac by the city, I'm doubting that you could have signed a new contract with them - could be wrong though

Yeah getting the P/R to mow is a challenge. The first two years SeaTac was open Clements had 45 min 3-4 timer/week to give to the course. Since the shake up and the reduction of worker hrs the course has had to rely on the golfers to keep it up.

I was actually out last Sun before the work party. Two weeks before Erick and I worked about 4 hrs on 15 pin and 16 near the marker/junipers. Two weeks before that Erick and I 2 hrs worked on the 7 green and all the dead sticks. Not the last time CMC and I played but the three or four times before that we emptied all the trash. like I said WHILE WE PLAYED!!!!

Banned by the city that's a good one. No! it was actually herm who tried to ban me for planting colored stones as distance markers.

So I guess that (if I am banned then) I must be a sucker for still giving to someplace I am clearly not wanted.

John in a nut shell

Split weekends

AM's no problems Paid $3/player first installment on the loan $150 cash in Keiths hand

Open Sat no problem even though payout was posted $6/player fee

Cut leaders got times Men, Ladies and Masters rest played but crack early in pool

Expose hypocrisy Remind Open what it was like to be an AM and have the TD make money of them (about $300 each weekend)

Paid $3/player second installment on the loan $168 cash in Keith's hand ( $320 8% of the $4K in two weekends)

2010 INWS Basket raffle
Depot and Bangerz split cost of prize $200 each I paid for the 1000 tickets $75
Depot sold $200 worth of tickets remitted the money to the series. (Check)
Bangerz sold $175 worth of tickets remitted the money to the series (Check)
Series sold $255 worth of raffle tickets remitted the money to the series (cash) For a total of $630 raised prior to he finals.

Series issues checks ($315) to both Depot and Bangerz as a cash receipt for the entire promotion. Both remits $315 check back to series as third part of write off.
Bangerz Initial cost of $200 + $175 for sales + $315 for promotion
Not Counting the $200 investment he was able to write off $495 or 2.5 to 1 on his investment. The number for Depot are basically the same (+$25)

Comment

Two of my good friends played the last monthly Ace Run and they both won in their respective divisions. What happened next has lead each of them believe everything I’ve ever told them about the guys who own and operate Chainbangerz. My friend took 1st in Open out of 6 people and received $80. Later we saw online that the winner from the prior month took home $100 out of just four players. Interestingly, someone had asked Keith what the payout was gonna be between rounds and he said he didn’t know yet, obviously that’s because it depends on who wins.

The other friend took first in Advanced and took his script promptly over to the shop to redeem. They didn’t have the bag straps he was looking for (no surprise there), so he browsed the used bin. Lo and behold there was one of his leopards (that I gave him as a gift, btw) with his PDGA number written across the top and his name and phone number on the bottom. He never once received a phone call. He tried to make a deal with the guy at the shop, surely they wouldn’t charge him $8 for his own used plastic. OH BUT THEY DID!! He ended up spending $8 of his script on a disc that had all of his info on it.

I do believe my friends have learned their lesson the hard way. I have quietly avoided supporting this company by not playing their tourneys or buying from their store, until now. I won’t be quiet anymore. We are sick of people without integrity running events that don’t better our sport. Chainbangerz fills the calendar with crap tourneys (who wants to ace run when ratings are on the line?) and somehow they were able to “take over” all control of tourneys at Lakewood and Seatac. Their biggest fuck up yet, killing CSI.

CSI (Cool Shoes Invitational, for those of you that don’t remember all the way back to last year) was gaining momentum and notoriety after 12 successful years. When I was down in Santa Cruz at worlds, Devan Owens and Will Schusterick told me they were “coming to Seattle to beat Dave at that stupid little C-tier he always wins.” That may not sound very complimentary to you, but trust me, it’s a big deal. We were going to have legit touring pros coming to play our 13th annual CSI……… If these guys weren’t so dim witted they could have capitalized on the strong foundation already built, they could have made a partnership, instead they selfishly stifled us. How much more are we going to lose to them? I say NO MORE!

“To sin by silence when they should protest makes cowards of men.” Abraham Lincoln

Jessie,

Let me first say this: I wish you the best of luck at worlds.
I mean who better to represent the state then you right? You play so well,and you have so much potential to be a positive role model for all the up and comers,male and female alike. More so female as we need more ladies on the course,and more importantly we need all to feel welcome into disc golf. So with this kind of position I would hope that you wouldn't abuse it.
For real, from an outside perspective how does if look when you write posts like this for Disc Golf as a whole?
Even though you have openly expressed on a public forum your hatred towards Chainbangerz we have been supportive of letting all our customers at both shops,and courses,know about your event, even though its on the same day as one of ours,and you have openly admitted you do not and will not support our events and our shop. I hope it fills up, it looks like it will and I hope plenty of money is raised as it is expensive to travel. I noticed allot of chainbanger team members are coming out to support as well as chainbanger supporters so thanks for all that guys.

As far as the $20 diference in payment for the L.A.R.C. here is why:
BTW,thats great that your curious.But I do think its funny how Aaron, or Mark seemed to be OK with this, or else I would have thought that they would express their concerns to me in person.
REASON:
All of the Chainbanger Disc Golf Club events,and the Lakewood Ace Run Challenge events have been part of the Competition Endowment Program.
What this means is that the $10 non current PDGA member fees have the option to be waived as well as sanctioning fees. When I ran the first two there was some misunderstandings with PDGA and that was clearly my fault. So for the first two events that money went straight to payout,and came out of my pocket, but went right back into the charity I chose to receive. Discovering Open Spaces.
When the 3rd event came to be,those fees went right to the charity.
So......thats the $20 difference.
I have been lucky enough to raise $900 for the disc golf community so far using this program. It empowers non profits to raise funds that the PDGA normally charge TD's to run events.

Of that money raised I was going to ask the club if they felt we should donate some,if not all of it,to you. I'll put it up for vote and see how the the current members feel. I personally feel you could use the money. North Carolina is pretty far without support to travel,and can be spendy. Regardless of your opinions about me and Chainbangerz Disc Golf Shop and club.

Before you start talking about integrity for the sport, I would suggest getting all your facts straight. I think there is enough walls being built, where we need to start breaking them down. I feel that when you limt yourself or anyone else to chose sides,and have factions,it really stunts any kind of growth for us all. I try to see the big picture and hope that others who feel passionate enough about the growth,can as well.
But once again everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion.

For Lakewood and Seatac I felt that having strong written contracts in place empower the disc golf community .As well as add security for the longevity of disc golf courses in both parks. Something no one else has had,or thought of before. A contract stating that WE the Disc Golfers are in fact stakeholders instead of just some loose verbal agreement stating such. So that when an organization, like TAF,comes along that we can put our foot down and say NO! We are not supportive of loosing any more courses or holes for that matter,on any given course.

For any events,come talk to me.I am always open to any and all ideas. Especially new and fresh ones. I am in one or two places, my house or chainbangerz. oh occasionally you can find me on the courses,if I'm not working I may be throwing,which you are always welcome to join me.

As far as CSI goes, Jub is the only one to blame for that. His shady way of doing business has burnt any bridge with me, as well as most of the disc golf community.
Since this post is long enough I will address that elsewhere. For now I have to get back to calling people who have gotten discs turned in.

Comment

I don't understand all of the venom surrounding a fundraiser to cover expenses for a trip to Worlds. I don't see a problem with it as long as she is upfront about what she's raising money for. People can choose to support her by whether or not they attend the event. By the sounds of it, they are. Don't like it? Fine - you can choose not to go. But I certainly don't begrudge her for trying. Hell, I was thinking about running a similar event for a similar purpose in the next year or so.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Wasn't there a fundraiser at Milo to send someone to USDGC a couple of years ago?

Comment

I for one (am I taking this wrong because it was so close to my post) never said anything was wrong with a self-fundraiser. Great if it flies.

I simply said (or hoped to imply) that a different entity with DG funds to spare might better serve the community by applying that money to a course rather than an individual.

Hopefully that didn't come across as venomous- since I'd be hard pressed to figure how to interpret it that way.

maybe not venemous, but came across as pretty derisive... and made me sure feel like an asshole asking for help (and getting it) from a ton of people in this community to help make my first ever trip to World's possible last year... luckily i got over that feeling pretty quickly and was reminded of how great and generous and caring and fun the vast majority of the disc golf community is.

"'There are two mantras.,' Bernard said, 'Yum and yuk. Mine is yum.'"
Tom Robbins, Still Life With Woodpecker

Comment

Yeah, totally agree Scott - its all above board and folks are free to play as they wish. My personal preference is that if we are fundraising, we do so for food banks, course needs, club needs, or other non-profit missions. IMO, these seem like much higher priority than sending someone to worlds - when I've gone to worlds or usdgc etc. I've always paid for it and wouldn't have accepted donations even if offered but totally personal preference.

P.S. - Sounds like Sheila and I will be running a charity PDGA event this summer for a women's rights non-profit yet to be determined - Get yer blizzards ready, cause the Sudoku showdown is gonna be back!

Comment

I don't understand all of the venom surrounding a fundraiser to cover expenses for a trip to Worlds. I don't see a problem with it as long as she is upfront about what she's raising money for. People can choose to support her by whether or not they attend the event. By the sounds of it, they are. Don't like it? Fine - you can choose not to go. But I certainly don't begrudge her for trying. Hell, I was thinking about running a similar event for a similar purpose in the next year or so.

And it's not like this is unprecedented. Wasn't there a fundraiser at Milo to send someone to USDGC a couple of years ago?

I totally agree, a few years ago down here in olympia we held a fundraiser to send Chandler Fry to worlds and NO ONE complained about that.
i think local fundraiser tournaments for a local to the region that has the potential to do well at worlds is great.