Truth?

The earth is round we say is true. Yet at a time in history this was false. People believed the earth to be flat, like paper. We say viruses and bacteria cause illness. Yet at a time it was the work of the devil. We say that lighting is caused by the work of friction and electrons is true. But it was once the work of a God. How do we define what is the truth? The human race strives to understand and find meaning. 2+2=4 is true, yet if someone decided that 5 should come before 4, than this is false. If we said the truth is that the planets revolve around the earth, it is true. Yet when someone shows that it isn't true, that the planets revolve around the sun, now what we once believed to be true is no longer the truth, it is false. Is there such a thing as, the "truth"? Or is the truth ever changing? What do you define as the truth?

Apr 7 2012:
There is no truth.
What you see depends on your viewpoint.
If you walk the earth it is flat and the sun revolves over and under it.
Do you see the earth from some distance then the earth is somewhat round and turning on its axis.
If we see more the picture gets less blurred.

Apr 7 2012:
I don't know exactly what you ask.
My view is that anything can be true for as far as we know.
"Truth" sounds like an absolute which it never is. It is always relative to our perception at any moment.

Apr 7 2012:
Well, maybe this might clarify. From the example above, the earth seemed to be flat, and thus people thought that such was "the truth." Now we know a bit better, and we see it as spherical. Maybe some will argue that it is more like a spheroid with such and such deformations. So, spherical might not be proper, but close to that other view. Still, all of that is mistaking whether we know the true shape of our planet with whether our planet has a true shape (or set of shapes, whatever). Clear now? That our viewpoints might not allow us to grasp some truth about reality does not mean that such truth is not there. It just means we have not, or cannot, grasp it. So, what's relative is our perception of what is true. But is what is true changing with our perception?

Further, no one can exist at levels higher than their intellect. You can only be to the extent that you know. This then puts malleability to truth making truth relative or limited to certain parameters.
I think increase in knowledge/understanding redefines truth.
How true is this ??

If we look at the definition of "truth", it actually embraces different meanings...
"sincerity in action, character and utterance; the state of being the case; the body of real things, events, and facts; transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality; a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true; the body of true statements and propositions; being in accord with fact or reality; the quality or property of keeping close to fact and avoiding distortion or misrepresentation; in accordance with fact".

This is why when I talk about "truth", I often say YOUR truth, or MY truth? It can be different depending on our viewpoint, perception, beliefs, etc. Even some "truths" that have been scientifically proven are changing with new information. To me, holding onto old truths is limiting....being open to new information allows me to explore with an open mind and heart:>)

I totally agree Gabo..."That our viewpoints might not allow us to grasp some truth about reality does not mean that such truth is not there. It just means we have not, or cannot grasp it". To "grasp" new information, we need to be open to it, and if we are not open to new information, we hold onto old "truths".

What you speak is TRUTH....in my humble opinion..... LOL:>)

Peter,
With all due respect, constantly quoting scripture does not feel freeing to me....it feels "stuck" and limiting.

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Apr 9 2012:
Agreed...there's a difference between truth and perception of truth. That being said, however, to understand the concept of "perception of truth", one has to evaluate and explore one's own truth. One's perception, based on level of consciousness and awareness is increased or decreased by one's willingness to be open to, and accept information. Until one opens the heart and mind to new information, one's perception is his/her "truth", and I suggest that in some people's mind, there is NO difference between truth and perception of truth. When a person is attached to his/her truth as part of his/her identity, it is very difficult to believe or understand that there may be other "truths" or "perceptions of truth" for different people. It is with increased consciousness, awareness, mindfulness and acceptance, that we may open the mind and heart to possibilities. When we understand that there may be other "perceptions of truth", it is no longer necessary to try to prove our "truth" right:>)

Apr 14 2012:
Hello Colleen! Sure hope your brother will be OK... I know what you mean by the sense of time during a hospital vigil for a loved one... my heart goes out to you.

The famous story of the Blind Men and the Elephant addresses the issue of what we perceive to be truth relative to others perceived truth.

Is it possible to see the whole elephant, the whole elephant being a metaphor for the Truth? With the most open, flexible,big picture mind in conjunction with others, I think we can intuit, resonate with and approach Truth asymptotically. At this level, all truth is unified... no truth contradicts another but no truth can be stated... all is dynamic, all is flow, implicit, energetic and infinitely deep and unknowable with our left hemispheric modes of language and abstraction.

To resonate with this deepest, unspeakable implicit truth and to do it with others is called "awakening" and it is a state a great joy, insight and creativity...

Contemplate this lovely animation of wind patterns to make the shift to an awakened right hemispheric mode...

Thank you:>)
I agree...it is joyous to explore ideas and expand knowledge and understanding:>)

I don't suggest NOT challenging behaviors that are threatening to other people. I'm suggesting that all people can have his/her own beliefs. However, when those beliefs abuse or violate the rights of others, they are no longer just "beliefs". At that point, they become actions or behaviors that are not beneficial for the whole of humankind. I believe at that point, we can, as a global community, challenge those threatening actions/behaviors. I agree...there are people in our world who would threaten and violate the rights of others because of his/her belief. As long as they are beliefs that don't threaten or violate the rights of others, they can believe what they want. When those beliefs adversly impact the health, well being, and rights of others, I believe we can and should take action to prevent the violation of rights.

One factor which contributes to the violation of human rights is isolation. We now have the technology to monitor abuse of human rights around our world. I also believe we are evolving to the point of thinking and feeling on different levels..."awakening", as Joe says in his comment above, which hopefully gives us, as a global community, more strength and power to prevent violations of human rights.

Apr 15 2012:
Dear Joe,
I could not get this reply directly under your comment...hope you find it!

Thank you for your encouragemnent and kind words regarding my brother....yes...time stands still when one is with a loved one whose health, well being and life is challenged. It's always nice interacting with you my friend. That is the truth!

You ask..."Is it possible to see the whole elephant, the whole elephant being a metaphor for the Truth?"

I believe it is possible, as you say with an open, flexible, mind and heart, and willingness to look at the big picture

You may notice that Salim's elephant story begins with..."5 blind people went to see an elephant , time was limited.....so they tried to see the elephant with in that time span".

Time was limited...they tried to see what they could see within the time span.
What happens when we take the time to see, hear, and evaluate the many different parts of the whole? What happens when we are mindful, aware, attentive in each and every moment? My experience tells me that I am open to more information, which allows me to be more accepting of other people's "truths".

I want to clarify that I do NOT advocate accepting someone's "truth" which manifests into abusive behaviors which are a violation of human rights. I suggest being open to "beliefs"....NOT behaviors which adveresly impact others.

Apr 14 2012:
Dear Mwenjew,
Sorry for the delayed response. I've been with my brother in Boston, as he had surgery to remove lung cancer, and have not been very active on TED in the last few days.

Your question:
"Colleen,
Just wondering. could there be a difference between time and the illusion of time ?"

For me, time seems to be both reality and illusion. It is a human construct, which is used consistantly in our world, so in that respect, it is very real...is it not?

In another respect, I am aware of different levels of consciousness, where tiime is simply an illusion. Because it is a human construct, it is not relevant when one experiences the different states of consciousness.

I have not worn a watch for 25-30 years. I eat when hungry, sleep when tired, and sometimes get lost in projects, like the gardens for example, and totally forget about time and space. The last few days, while with my brother in the hospital, felt like an eternity, although it was only 4 days.

Do you think it is a matter of how we use and percieve "time", which causes it to be "real", or an illusion? I see many people getting attached to time...they think/feel they do not have enough time, or are not using their time appropriately, and in that way, they/we allow time to be a limitation.

"Time" is "truth" as created by humans, and as with any other human construct, may be subject to change and/or may be an illusion.

Apr 15 2012:
Colleen, You are one of the aware and a very fine teacher of awareness. I have recently been fascinated with the idea of flow... at one level, the Universe is a fantastically complex interaction of interwoven flows. Since it is dynamic and ever changing, we can intuit its truth, perceive it directly, especially with the capacities of the right cerebral hemisphere, but there is no way to describe it with total accuracy or to turn it into a intellectual abstraction that we call truth... it just is... we can resonate with it and know it in some way but cannot turn it into an object.

Here is another great animation of flow... hope you can get this one... let me know what you think. I feel we need to stay in touch.

Apr 15 2012:
Salim,
Thank you for your thoughts of my brother, and your kind, encouraging words. He is doing well...stabalizing and out of ICU:>) He is the 2nd brother who has had major, very invasive surgery for cancer in the last 6 months.

No matter how tough/strong I am, or think I am, support and encouragment from friends is always appreciated and welcome in my heart. One of my important "truths", is that we are all here to support each other in our life journey:>)

Apr 13 2012:
The truth is that which is so. How we determine what is so is tricky. Our own senses can sometimes elude us, such as in illusion. In hypnotism, a subject can be persuaded that something is so, and the subject will create the illusion from memory.

In science, the truth is determined from repetitive results. Some claims are simple such as gravity always pulls objects towards the earth. We can define it with a formula and test it repeatedly with accurate results. Some claims are complex such as evolution. We can infer various factors involved with the process, but may not be able to prove every one to be correct. The more complex the truth is, the more difficult it is to prove it without doubt.

In religion, the truth is determined from spiritual revelation (not to be confused with belief in sacred scripture). Sacred scripture was to act as a guide. It is very ambiguous and requires meditation in order to come to any understanding. Without understanding, religion is blind. Because it is ambiguous, the truth is much harder to find. Misinterpretations abound in religion because we don't have the mindset of the writer to define what was intended. Sometimes we don't even have the original words, but only translations.

"The four corners of the earth" led to the belief that the earth was flat. It really refers to the four cardinal points of the compass and has nothing to do with geometry.
Distortions in the mental field can create all sorts of psychosomatic disorders. Since Satan represents the master of deception, there is merit to the claim that the devil causes illness, but one must distinguish what is causing illness. There are many doctors that refer their patients to therapists because they cannot find any physical cause of their illness. In such cases, distortions in what a person believes has been found to be the cause.

We have to distinguish between what we know to be true, and what we believe to be true, and go from there.

Apr 13 2012:
Perhaps revelations should not be considered the truth automatically.
These are usually interpreted via cultural religious lens and may simply be psychological behaviour.
These insights conflict with each other.
Perhaps they should be treated carefully and not accepted blindly via faith.

I'm not sure what biblical evidence there is for satan being able to create life such as bacteria.
God created lfe according to the bible. It doesn't mention bacteria because the authors did not know it existed. Like wise there is probably more biblical consistency with god causing storms, earthquakes and floods than the devil. Some Christians still think Katrina was god punishing the USA.

Apr 14 2012:
Obey,
Revelation is a window into the unknown. Often it is not complete or all encompassing, so you are right that revelation should not be considered as truth, only a means to ponder on what the truth may be. Revelation causes us to think outside the box.

I am not saying that Satan can create bacteria, only that not all illness is the result of bacteria. There was man who was losing his eyesight. The doctor could find no physical explanation for his symptoms, so the doctor referred him to a therapist. The therapist discovered that the man had an addiction to pornography, but felt that looking at it was a sin and would incur him eternal torment, so he was praying to God to take away his desire to look at it. Unbeknown to him, his own mind was responding to his prayer by making it not possible to look at it at all. Once the therapist got the man to deal with his addiction, his eyesight was restored to normal.

Psychosomatic illness is not due to bacteria but some distortion in the mental field. That was the point that I was trying to convey. The mind computes by what it knows. So if what it knows is false, the results will be disturbing. That is the underlying nature of the character that we call Satan. Misconceptions can be deadly as any study into the witch trials of Europe would reveal.

I see Satan as a mythological character as that which embodies evil in the spiritual realm. And I see the spiritual realm as the collective consciousness of all humanity, and possibly beyond. Although I don't know what beyond means, only that I have had experiences that I cannot explain by any conventional wisdom.

The mind is an amazing thing. It is sad that many are still motivated by fear and wild imaginings.

Apr 9 2012:
Of course there is truth. Truth is absolute. The problem is that we as a race, throughout history, had thought that our beliefs were true. We must be very careful about what "we" consider to be true.

Many people believe tha truth is relative, but this is a deception: what we believe to be true becomes true to us, and in that way we are creating our own reality. And in that way we make ourselves gods.

Sounds crazy, I know, but when you've been around as long as I have, the only things that sound truly crazy arw listening to what other people are stone cold sure is the absolute truth . . . even when you know it's complete balderdash.

Apr 7 2012:
Yes. Truth. Truth is powerful. Truth works. Repeating words that have been brainwashed into you is not truth. If you are honest with yourself and others, you observe and express the truths that you personally behold.....even if it means taking a personal risk. Only TRUTH will make us free. Repeating words like a parrot is not an expression of truth. SEEK TRUTH, FIND TRUTH. Perhaps it takes courage to be who you really are, but it certainly pays off in that you get to live an authentic life. Don't be intimidated by a bunch of dead people who tried to control you and others. Live your own truth.

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Apr 7 2012:
yes I do. Truth is something we get closer to whenever we improve our theories about the world. improvement is mesured by the amount of knowledge gained.
To know something is to have a good explanation for it.

Apr 7 2012:
Lewis Carrol had a good explanation for Wonderland, is Alice real/true?
Isn't truth kind of like pregnancy Gerald, in that you are either are or you are not. Close to truth is not truth. I don't see any more merit in atheistic intellect than in judeo Christian arrogance. We all lack knowledge and that is what keeps us from truth. Thanks.

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I would have to actually disagree with your statement being that consensus does not constitute as truth and most relativist approaches to topics I think is bankrupt (although I understand where relativist are coming from). and this is of course if you were refering to Geralds perception.

Secondly, millions of children may believe in the Easter Bunny, Santa or the Boogyman etc but this does not lend to the slightest credence that any of the three exist and we know for sure that none of these things exist in the way that we talk and describe them. The same goes for God: millions of people believe in some sort of God but their beliefs do not match the true nature of what some would call Ultimate Reality. The same goes for those who do not believe in some sort of God.

I agree with you that not all perceptions equal truth but nonetheless not every perception is wrong all because there are different approaches to one particular subject.

All that is required nowadays is evidence and reason: If someone has good reasons to believe something then we accept that. If what someone believes scales with the evidence then we accept that. If you do not believe this statement all I have to say is that you were doing just exactly what i said when you and Natasha responded to Gerald's post.

In other words, what I am saying is that when we listen to what someone has to say about something we evaluate their reasons and look at the evidence.

This is usually the case with all value statements and if this still seems a bit fuzzy just think about how you would react if I was to go on here and state that Hitler's notion of Aryan Supremacy was absolute truth and accounts of what he did in during the holocaust was nothing but fabricated history. I would expect that you would totally dismiss such a statement being that not only is such a claim unreasonable but it does not correlate with the events that actually took place during that time

Don't take me wrong, I don't want to belittle scientific achievements.On the contrary, I think, two millennia of empirical observations and great progress in science make us realise that we have no clue what IS real, what IS reality. The very ' IS' is challenged now. Check out here http://www.ted.com/conversations/10581/how_does_virtuality_translate.html
it's just an example to illustrate my point and there are plenty of those.

Apr 15 2012:
Good point. The more we know, the more we know we don't know.

Some elements of science/reality may be beyond what most of us humans can understand intuitively.

- Natural selection no problem.
- What is gravity and how it actually works - no idea - although we can do the calculations with remarkable accuracy

Still I think some perceptions, approximations of reality are a lot closer to the truth than others.
And in practical terms some perhaps trivial claims are reasonable - earth goes round the sun. The earth is spinning relative to the sun giving us day and night - the sun does not rest in a cradle overnight.

Apr 6 2012:
There is a great book called "Beyond Feelings" by Vincent Ryan Ruggiero. There is a chapter on this subject called "What is Truth?". The summary of the chapter is:
Truth has to be discovered not created. Period.

....It was the work of God. Did someone discovered it or was it a belief.
Our ideas and beliefs are unavoidably influenced by others, particularly in childhood. Our perceptions and memory are not perfect. Our information is incomplete or inaccurate. Flaws in our thinking. All of these reasons push us towards "creating our own truth". It is not truth, just beliefs, ideas that we accept as true but that could easily be false. Our beliefs and assertions are true when they correspond to that reality and false when they do not.
Truth is apprehended by discovery, a process that favours the curious and the deligent. Truth does not depend on our acknowledgement of it, nor is it in any way altered by our ignorance or transformed by our wishful thinking

Apr 16 2012:
We shouldn't have one word for "truth"- it suggest a yes or no quality to the very word.

We should have variations of "truth" - struth (slightly true), ptruth (partially true), mtruth (mostly true), atruth (always true) - (I'm not suggesting we add any words to any dictionary, rather just start thinking in variation, process and dimension)

Ambiguous statements...
A. The world is round. Rather, the world is round is true, but not entirely. mtruth - it has qualities of shape that are rounded.
B. Religion is nonsense. False, Religions vary historically and modernly, however modernly fundamentalism proves nonsensical. struth - Extremist of fundamentalism prove careless of rational, empirical and/or intuitive cultures developing globally.

The way we must look at truth should be both a process and as an anticipation of a fuzzy factor - the fact there are a lot of REAL variables we must consider to be fully aware.

While the goal is to be "objective" and "absolute" we must realize we have to do go through subjective measures to obtain those goals of knowledge. Since we are only able to be attached to our own minds, we must absorb what others have to produce and trade in the ontological and semantic realm as to gather more subjective evidence of the objective truth... While there is a constant (or should be) push and pull of internal and external belief systems... We should also realize we have a physiological part of our brain-body influencing our unconscious mind...

We are not one entity, we are three. Or at least we are not one simply entity, but a thing with three dimensions of qualities pushing and pulling on another. Mind + Brain + Body - or - meta-spiritualism + neuropsychological + physiological...

Apr 15 2012:
Hello Khushal! I posted some links to awesome animations of flow on Earth below... perhaps we can harmonize ourselves with that change, intuit it in some way but of course it could never be stated with words or abstractions... all stated truth would be partial as per the Blind Men and the Elephant mentioned below...

Knowing these things, I still think it is worthwhile to try and approach the truth and to attempt to perceive it directly without words, using the capacities of the right cerebral hemisphere...

Apr 13 2012:
There are things that are true and things that are false.
There are things that are on the right road to truth,
and there are things that off in a field somewhere picking daisies,
and things that are are on the road but going in the opposite direction.
We want to think we are on the right road to truth...but we wont know till we get there.

Somethings we have already got there and we know as truths...the whole round earth thing for example..(sorry Chris Kelly for bringing that up again) But there are many things we are still on the road to discovering...its this journey that makes life worth living...to me anyway.

Apr 10 2012:
Hi,
" What do you define as the truth?"
Wikipedia gives what I consider an accurate definition: As such, "truth" must have a beneficial use to be retained within language. Defining this potency and applicability can be looked upon as "criteria", and the method used to recognize a "truth" is termed a criterion of truth. Since there is no single accepted criterion, they can all be considered "theories".

Or is the truth ever changing?
Well, such a conclusion could be drawn after reading tons of history books. : )
Changing paradigms takes time.. maybe because... "If it's not your experience it's not your reality"

Apr 8 2012:
An analogy of seeing or experiencing TRUTH....well known story it is....

5 blind people went to see an elephant , time was limited.....so they tried to see the elephant with in that time span

After their elephant experience....they started describing

First saying "Elephant is like a pillar"......as s/he could touch one of the legs of Elephant
Second disagreed ....."no no its like a hose pipe or a python"....s/he could get hold of the trunk of the same
Third loudly decalred ...."both of you are wrong it's like huge size carrot"....it was the tusk s/he could grab..
Fourth ...."all of you are dead wrong , it's like a huge fan".........one of the ears s/he touched
Fifth told ..."come on friends I could see better....its like a enormous lump of thorny meatball' .....s/he could touch through the main body

Well I am also giving my example.....I am myopic since my early childhood , so without spec....if something written on wall at some distance & letters are not big enough for my eye sight, it's unreadable....that's the truth for me without spec...... but to a person with normal vision it's readable.....so that's her/his TRUTH.

Apr 9 2012:
Good point Obey,
I believe we base our "truth" on the information we have available to us. When humans believe we/they have the "absolute truth", we often stop exploring and/or being open to more information.I would percieve it to be an "error" on my part to believe I know the absolute truth, because I would not like to deny myself the opportunity to learn, grow and evolve.

Often, however, people feel secure with his/her "truth" as s/he thinks s/he knows it, and will not open the heart and mind to anything different....it's always a choice. I would not deny myself the opportunity to have more information:>)

Apr 10 2012:
Thanks Colleen. I guess it is reasonable to put up a bit of a fight before changing your world view, but good to keep an open mind. I have opinions on a lot of matters, some strongly held, but these views have evolved over time. Some have changed quickly when faced with an overwhelming contrary insight. I don't claim to have the absolute truth, but hopefully views that reflect the evidence etc.

I find debate and discussion a good way to refine my world view.

The deeply held core views don't change that easily, but can change in their own time if you are open to it.

I guess some belief systems do claim to have the absolute eternal truth. Some make switching off your reason a virtue. Doubt, questioning, challenging the inconsistencies may not be seen as a virtue.

Response: Our very vocabulary or lexicon is ever changing, subjective and individually based. Do not stop at the labels we have assigned to an item when searching for truth or fact. This mathematical question uses labels defined by humankind to express a concept of measuring quantities. The quantities measured are constant or factual. The labels of "2" and "5" can be "doodle" and "turd" but the quantity truth or fact remains the same.

Question: God created the universe?

Response: These beliefs may or may not be factually based. Millions of people once believed the world was flat. They lived, died, had children and grew in the world of their time. This incorrect flat earth belief was eventually found to be an incorrect belief. Faith is an entirely unique kettle of fish! Fact and Truth within Faith can be very much a slippery concept. Fact and truth are not a requirement to be a proven item within a faith.

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Apr 10 2012:
The scientific process challenges it theories by it's very nature.
If a better theory is found that predicts and fits the evidence better it replaces the old.

Yes, we have to remind ourselves that current scientific theories, or what we learnt in school may have been updated, or may be updated in the future. Science develops as our understanding improves.

I'm not deluded to think all current theories are the absolute truth and can not be improved. I'm not deluded to think we have all the answers. In fact the cosmic and quantum scales are beyond the intuition of most of our monkey brains yet the theories work pretty well.

There may be well established theories, that may be wrong. But no dogma. Also science is a human endeavour so I expect some rivalry and perhaps stuborness. The competition is good. Peers test the theories. Perhaps there are blind spots due to human nature, but the scientific process has worked real miracles. The technology today would appear as magic to the ancients.

Still it is good to maintain some healthy scepticism. I think par tof the issue is modern science has moved past the laypersons ability to comprehend it. We feel safer if we drive the car rather than a pilot flying a plane when the statistics are the other way. This lack of control, this reliance on others may be part of the issue. Plus some theories conflict with religious beliefs. Also, perhaps there are genuine phenomena that non theist laypeople with simplistic materialistic views of reality discount without proper consideration.

However, science works. You can thank science and its application for the computer you have. The antibiotics. The car. The phone. The lights.