Sig Sauer Announces New M11 A-1

I hope many of you will be as excited about this announcement as I was Thursday. I was very pleased to have a conversation with Jeff Creamer, director of product management for Sig Sauer.

Before I pass along the particulars of the new Sig M11 A-1 let me tell you a very interesting story of how this pistol came to be.

As many of you are aware the military investigative services have been using the Sig P-228 since 1989. Not long ago Sig developed an upgraded replacement for the 228 that is based on the P-229. The new pistol was submitted to the DOD as the M11 A-1 and is still under consideration.The 228 will remain in production for the military for the time being.

The interesting part of the story for us is Sig has been listening to customers request for a compact P-229 type pistol without a rail. This has been a continuing request for some time. I would add myself to the list of Sig users desiring a P-229 pistol without the rail.

Sig realized they had such a pistol already created, tested and ready to go in the M11 A-1. The military’s loss (at least for now) turned out to be our gain with the release later this month of the upgraded M11 A-1! The number of pistols will be small at first but will ramp up quickly so that any customer that wants one will be able to purchase it without the wait some new guns experience when released. Sig’s intent is to add the M11 A-1 to the list of cataloged guns and will be available for a long time to come.

Now lets talk about the particulars of this new pistol. Is it a P-228 or a P-229? Well neither actually. All of the current “P” series pistols use a one piece stainless steel slide as does the new M11 A-1. The capacity of the 228 and 229 is 13 rounds of 9MM. The newer model P-229’s have a rail of course.

The M11 A-1 uses the slightly wider frame of the P-229 40 caliber and 357 Sig to accommodate an extra two rounds of 9MM for a total of 15 rounds. Of course there is no rail on this frame. Another very big plus is the trigger. The new pistol will come standard with the short, thin trigger (Short Reset Trigger) giving the user an improved reach.This is the same trigger currently used in the “Elite” series pistols.This trigger is referred to as the SRT or short reset trigger which reduces trigger travel by 60%. This is especially beneficial for those with smaller hands or those wearing gloves

The slide is made from one piece of stainless steel with the more traditional profile of earlier “P” series pistols. The slide serrations are also more aggressive providing a better grip when a shooters hands are damp or gloves are used. This was accomplished by using a “ball” milling process rather than the standard milling of the regular P-228 and P-229.

As with the military pistols the critical internals are phosphate coated to prevent rust and corrosion. Siglite night sights are standard as are three 15 round magazines.

There is more good news for new buyers of the M11 A-1 and that is you won’t have to wait for holster makers to catch up and create new holsters. An often aggravating circumstance. Any holster currently made for the non-railed 40 caliber/357 Sig P-229 will work just fine on this new pistol. This will certainly give the new owner plenty of choices in which holster they choose.

As far as grips are concerned any grip made for the P-228 or P-229 will fit the M11 A-1. After getting the news from Craig Sword, who owns Mil-Tac.com, you will be able to purchase G-10 grips as well. These will be available in a few months and I can’t wait to get a pair for my 1979 vintage P-225 and P-6! They will no doubt look great on the M11 A-1 as well. Hogue also has many different grip options in various materials for the M11 A-1.

There we have it. Sig listened to the customer base providing us with an upgraded pistol with a very good trigger and readily available accessories. With these internal upgrades and one piece stainless slide this should be a pistol that will serve you well for a very long time. It goes without saying I can’t wait to shoot one of these. I expect the usual Sig accuracy with the quality they are well known for. One last note: shipping begins prior to the end of the month!

Retired police officer with 30 years of service. Firearms instructor and SRU team member. I still instruct with local agencies. My daily carry pistol is the tried and true 1911. I’m the Associate Editor and moderator at TFB. I really enjoy answering readers questions and comments. We can all learn from each other about our favorite hobby!

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John

This may be my first Sig

Phil White

John,

It sure is a good looking pistol! The features sure can’t be beat especially if you like Sig’s!

John

Iv bin wanting a Sig for awhile now I have Glocks and a 1911 but I want to give Sig a shot and i think this will be the one.

Phil White

John,

It would sure be my choice. Enjoy!

D

This is the most enthusiasm i have ever seen for a product that is wholly unexciting. It’s a 9mm semi-auto. It doesn’t even have an accessory rail. It’s capacity is unremarkable. I don’t see anything at all exciting or interesting here, other then the sig name being stuck on it.

Jefe

What’s wrong with being excited over a high-quality, very accurate pistol coming to the market. As someone who loves Sig pistols, I’m pumped about this, especially with that trigger coming standard.

Phil White

Jefe,

That trigger decision was a homerun for me!

Neil

I can tell you never shot a p228…. It’s already the smoothest DA trigger in the industry. I’m a sig LE armorer and for an alloy frame with full rails, it can’t be beat. You dont need a rail. Its there so you can “do more eith your trigger finger” instead if just working the trigger when you need it, not a momentary switch ona light or laser. Crimson Trace will solve your laser issue down to the submergable grip (lg-429m). The 228 is about 1 1/2 oz lighter than P229 with the stainless slide and to me it’s the biggest most noticeable 1 1/2 oz in the industry. P228 is carbon steel that could rust as to where p229 i a 1 peice stainless steel slide with the Nitron finish bonded into the metal. Itll never rust from sweat or salt water. 9mm is more than fine with the right ammo. The ammo’s the secret to everything. You would be suprised at how many agency’s still use 9mm and it’s for a reason. That sig will out live us all. They cost what 2 Beretta’s or glocks cost. That’s the only downfall. Please try one someday, I think you’ll like it. I have over 160,000 rounds through mine and have never changed a part or spring!

Phil White

Neil,

Agreed the standard trigger is very good and the SRT will make it even better.Very good comment—thanks!

As far as round count I have a Browning which is actually the P-220 with the European heel mag release. I purchased it in 1978 and I have a LOT of rounds through it and have never done anything but clean and shoot it.

Neil

Sorry the reply didnt work. My reply was to “D”.

Phil White

Jefe,

Not a thing Jefe not one thing wrong with being pumped over it!

Phil White

D,

Man I do! A lot of people don’t care for rails myself included. I don’t own one railed pistol of any kind so this appeals to me a great deal. The features they added to extend the service life is the kind of thing that would allow someone to shoot the heck out of it and still hand it down.

Neil

Phil,
I have that same BDA and it’s everything you say. I’m glad to see another guy enjoy it!!
I’m sitting on a pile of German mags that I wondered if they would fit to. Thanks for calling them for the skinny on it! I guess then the new p224(only in .40 for now) is the only one that won’t be interchangeable. The older .40 mags are blown out just a hair on each side and i thought That would take care of it with the slightly larger grip circumference. I’d hate to lose all mt 13-15-20 rnd capabilities after 20 years and have to buy new ones for another 228! Have a good one!

Phil White

Neil,

Oh yea Neil there are a few guns I have that I would never consider trading/selling and that’s one of them! Some guys have asked me why I’m so against trading it for a new gun. That’s an easy answer—it’s the first Sigs we had come into the country even if they said Browning on them. It’s gun history.Hey no problem on calling them. I should have had that base covered but it just never came up in our conversation. I’m just glad I got through on a Friday to find out for you guys:-)
I think you’re right on the 224 mags. I’m always glad when a new pistol comes out and there’s no need to buy new mags. The cost adds up in a hurry!

You have a great weekend!

AK™

@ D
You don’t understand..SIG is releasing to the public,the same gun that the super secret *not really* military investigators use (and some other units in the US Armed Forces) so it’s just the best thing since a Gen5 Block™ announcement….!!!! OH EM GEE!!

Marc

So it’s not in military use but Exeter gave a military-like name and promotes it as a gun trusted by “elite military personnel”. Typical.

Also the short (thin) trigger and the short reset trigger are two separate things.

Phil White

Marc,

Yes those two triggers are different. The kind you buy from places like Top Gun supply are the thin triggers while this one (as stated) is the one with a 60% reduction in travel.Obviously this is the short reset trigger.The M11 would be a good pistol without this trigger but a great one with it.

TCBA_Joe

Marc, I get what you’re saying. However, seeing as this is in consideration for a contract to replace the earlier version of itself I don’t see the military marketing as excessive.

It’s not any different than LWRC marketing it’s new M6 variant as the “IC” because it was originally designed for the Army’s IC contract even though it was pulled. Or, the REPR using the name of the USMC contract it was originally built for even though it wasn’t accepted.

Brice

This is more accurately a P229 without an accessory rail or E2 grip. Which is a perfectly valid form factor for a P series pistol. My oldest son hates my P226E2 because his fingers reach too far into the trigger guard. I, on the other hand, require an E2 grip profile because of my super short sausage fingers.

If I was going to buy a P228, the original with it’s smaller grip circumference, would be a much better choice.

Honestly, I wish Sig would ship my 1911 that I ordered back in February and haven’t received yet.

raven

I gave you a thumbs up because I too suffer from short sausage fingers and like the E2 grip profile.

This pistol looks like it could be an instant winner for Sig.

Jason

The 9mm always gets shafted because of the 40 S&W. I personally don’t want a gun that was designed for a .40 and ported over to a 9mm…this just makes the gun bigger and bulkier than it needs to be. I think I too would prefer the 228 to this.

Phil White

Jason,

Jason it is a very small difference in frame size. I doubt you would even notice it honestly.Between an 1/8 or 1/16th of an inch is nothing to be concerned with as far as bulk. It makes a difference in holsters but that’s about it. Looking at the two side by side I doubt you could see the difference without measuring.
Each to his or her own though the 228 is a fine pistol as well and one I’ve carried.

Phil White

raven,

I would think so as well raven. They have never put these beefed up features in a civilian pistol.

Phil White

Brice,

Yea, the problem is keeping up with demand on the 1911’s. They are running behind I know. There are times it takes me a few months to get a particular gun for review because of backorders. It’s just something I’ve grown to accept even though it can be frustrating at times.

The reach on this one will be about what you have on the pistol you have now with it’s shorter reach. Maybe a bit longer but not much.

Brice

The E2 grip profile takes an additional .15″ out of the trigger reach compared to the thin trigger only. The E2 grip with short reach trigger is really the only thing that allows me get a full finger pad on the trigger without rotating the pistol in my hand.

Phil White

Brice,

It doesn’t seem like much but it can make a big difference for some people which is a good thing. It’s easier for a person with average or slightly large hands to adapt to a smaller grip than the other way around.
It really adds time for a person with small hands to change mags and perform other task which can make a big difference in a critical situation.
The M11 A-1 should really be good for those with average too smaller hands.

W

I too have that issue with the E2 grip, but i can respect what SIG did because most handgun manufacturers dont cater to folks with small hands. In the military, that was actually one of the complaints of the M11: its grip was too bulky for many users.

gunslinger

so after my .45 purchase, i’m going to be in the market for a 9mm. i swore off glocks, and was wondering what would be good. sig might actually get some of my attention…

Tim

Save yourself $400 & find a lightly used 92FS.

Phil White

Tim,

To darm big for me as an all around carry pistol. They are great pistols no doubt but this is just to nice to not seriously consider.

Anonymoose

As a pretty big guy with pretty big hands, I have no problems with the 92FS’s size, but I still prefer the SIGs over the open-top Berettas.

W

im not sure why tim got down voted. I know many people that own Beretta 92FS handguns and really like them. Contrary to fobbit myth and internet bashing, they are actually decent handguns.

They are a bit long however. For 5-600 you can get a good used P229 or 228. I would also strongly recommend a Ruger P95 9 mil. They are inexpensive (300 dollar range) but rugged and reliable.

Phil White

W,

Sometimes people just down vote to be down voting. Who knows maybe stirring the pot:-)

Phil White

gunslinger,

I think this one would fit the bill Gunslinger:-)

gunslinger

my initial thought was to get a B92, that’s the “other 9mm” that i know of. Then i found the Walther P99, but wasn’t as impressed with it. I just need to do some more research.

Phil White

gunslinger,

I agree on the P99 trigger—it’s pretty bad.

Neil

I have a co instructor that has over 100,000 rounds through his original green p99 until the rifling in the barrel is almost non existant! However, in single action mode, if you squeeze the trigger slow enough for good accuracy it totally “decocks” the pistol… Not even back to double action mode but to the point that the slide needs pulled to cock the internal striker…. Boy talk about food for thought! And it’s a German made one to on top of it all!

Allen

Sig has had some serious initial quality problems with new weapons recently. See the product announcement for the P238, early reports of extractor issues and loose grip screws on the P938, and some cycling problems with the Sig 516/716 Patrol carbines. I loved Sig when they made high quality, well engineered firearms. More and more, I think they’re trading on their name. I’ll wait a while to see how this pistol behaves before thinking about one.

Phil White

Allen,

I understand that. A good number of people wait until a product has been out awhile. Certainly nothing wrong with that strategy.

Bryan S.

ive seen a few sig issues… and would love to buy one, but only one from maybe 5 years ago.

W

Ive heard of things too with the SIG 556 and P250. Ive seen the SIG 556 rifle of a good friends have serious accuracy problems and key holing; he couldnt get better than 7 MOA to save his ass! He exchanged the rifle and the lemon, which got shipped back to SIG, and he was on his merry way with a good rifle that got 2 MOA with 10 shots of M855.

Apparently the “West German” P226s were much better in terms of quality than the modern one. I havent had a chance to compare them however so its speculation and rumor at best.

Jay

As a “West German” P228 and P229 .40cal owner, I too would like to know the difference. Never fired a newer Sig, just these that my Dad left me. They are great though!

Phil White

Jay,

Which comment/question are you referring to? Maybe I can answer your question.

Andy from West Haven

I dunno. Mec Gar has upped the capacity of most of their 9mm flush fit mags by 2. Probably has to do with the followers and springs. You can still get original capacity mags from them but I have always trusted Mec Gar mags and even though I hope to never use “one” round, I’ll still take the extra two.

Anyway, SIG 226 original cap is 15. Now you can get 17 (and 18 but the baseplate is different). Of course they have 20’s but those are not flush fit. But for the 17’s the magazine isn’t any wider or longer. Hey, maybe I’m wrong on the mag widths. But my friend at the gun shop has an original 228. When he gets an M11 in his shop I’ll ask him to compare the mags.

Phil White

Andy,

Mec Gar makes good mags no doubt about it.Heck they may come out with a mag for the M11 that ups the capacity even more.

Andy from West Haven

Don’t see how without an extended baseplate. I have a 229 SCT that came with four 18 round magazines. They have +3 extensions. So basically they used a 15 round magazine for the basis of the 18 round mags.

Not positive but I’m pretty sure frame hieght between the 228 and 229 are the same.

Phil White

Andy,

Yes sir the 228, 229 and M11 A-1 are the same height. 5.4 inches—– overall that is. Frame height is also the same.

http://www.madogre.com Ogre

Did George Lucas join up with SIG? Retouching old stuff and selling it as something new?

Phil White

Ogre,

Ogre–it sure isn’t the same old stuff. It isn’t a 228 or 229 stamped as an M11 A-1. The trigger, capacity, trigger reach, phosphated internals and other upgraded features make it a very new pistol.

At least and unlike some companies they listened to the customers feedback and produced a pistol with the features they asked for.

http://www.madogre.com Ogre

Using a higher cap magazine doesn’t make this a whole new gun. It’s a 228 with a different trigger and magazine. That doesn’t make this a whole new gun.
Ford putting different tires on the Mustang doesn’t make it a totally different car. It’s still a Mustang.
And this is still a 228 and people are getting all gooey about it.

Phil White

Ogre,

We’re all entitled to our opinions of course but there is more to it than a larger magazine.

gak_pdx

This isn’t a “new” pistol at all… it is a parts bin special.

– They send the internals to a different plating shop to be phosphated. Just as they have on all the Navy P226s and a few other guns over the years.

– The Short Reset Trigger has been standard on many P Series pistols for quite some time now. It is an optional install via a parts kit.

– The frame is an off-the-shelf part for the .40 caliber weapons.

– SIG’s OEM magazine supplier (MecGar) has been making 15 round capacity magazines for the P228/P229 for years.

So really, it isn’t a Mustang with new tires, it’s a bit more than that… it is a SIG parts bin special!

SIG needs to invest in a next generation polymer platform. The SIG Pro series was a dud. The P250 was a dud. SIG continues to skate along on a reputation built decades ago while pistol technology has overtaken them. Now they sell a hefty feel, decent reliability and fetish SKUs like this one for mall ninjas to get all exited by. Yawn…

Phil White

gak_pdx,

Well I couldn’t disagree more but then we all have our opinions which is as it should be. We all also have varying degrees of direct contact information/knowledge relative to new pistols.

You have to remember this pistol was a direct result of Sig listening to customer emails and other methods of feedback requesting what the M11 A1 has become.

Matt

Phil,

I don’t think that this comes down to a difference of opinion. This is just another example of Sig deciding to create another SKU. The current product line is bloated and lacking in innovation. Sig is skating by on a reputation that they built on guns that they don’t build anymore. They are cutting corners with production and QC. If you field strip both a new production and an older German Sig, you’d have to agree. I think it’s awesome that you seem to get excited about every new product that comes out. I also like the fact that you take the time to reply to most of the comments on your posts. However, I think you’re doing the community at large a disservice by failing to be objective when it comes to products.

You can’t seem to say anything bad about anything you review. The content you generate is nothing more than cheerleading. For example, your test of a new Para 1911… you’ve put 565 rounds through the gun in the last several months… but you still seem to think that keeping a log of the rounds you’ve fired earns you some street cred. There is a new poster at gunnets.net that is doing a 2,000 round torture test on a Hipoint (a gun known to be junk by everyone that isn’t a rabid fanboy). That is what gun reviews are supposed to be. If I wanted to read positive reviews of every product out there I’d buy a gun rag. In another reply in the this comments thread you tell another poster that a DA/SA that the ability to decock is, “unique and well thought out.” Riiiiiight. Just about every other DA/SA gun out there decocks to give a heavier trigger pull on the first shot. There is nothing unique about Sig recycling this trigger system.

I respect the fact that you were a law enforcement officer and I’m glad that there are people out there like you that are working to spread acceptance of firearms outside of the shooting community. That being said, I’m going to say something that won’t like. I honestly didn’t mean for this to come out as a long ad hominem attack. But dude, you’re a hack. There are plenty of folks out there that look to blogs like this one for information on products that they might literally bet their lives on. You’re doing them and the entire shooting community at large a disservice by being just another industry mouthpiece. Not only do you fail to be objective, you also go out of your way to to discount any comments that have viewpoints different than your own.

I keep reading this blog for the content that Steve posts. Phil, I’m sure there are readers that really enjoy the things that you contribute to the site. However, I’m not one of them.

Phil White

Matt,

I never will understand why some people feel like there has to be something wrong with almost every gun that comes along. Rather, we should be glad US gun makers make great products for the most part. Are there some lemons? There are indeed some guns that have problems and if that’s the case then I say so and have. I’ve said this before but I will not nit-pick a gun in order to please those who want to see something, anything bad about a particular gun.

I’m also grateful to those who comment about problems they have experienced with a particular gun.That kind of comment is first hand not an Internet rumor which has no validity.

Yes I usually say how many rounds I’ve fired which has nothing to do with street creds. In fact I don’t understand why it would. Now, I buy my own ammunition so if you expect me to buy 2000 rounds of 45 acp or any caliber that’s not going to happen unless somebody supplies it which they don’t 99.9% of the time.I’ve had one company send ammo in the last two years and that’s it. Over 500 rounds is expensive enough especially considering how many guns I try and review. I do try and fire a minimum of 300 rounds per gun reviewed.

A hack? That implies I get something from a company for playing nice.That couldn’t be further from the truth. Some people think there is some grand conspiracy whereby all gun writers get free ammo, guns, trips to Europe and well whatever:-) That just doesn’t happen, it’s pure fantasy.

The only thing about your comments that does make me a bit angry is the implication I would cover up a defect and recommend a gun I know people will possibly stake their lives on!That’s the most insulting thing you could say. I spent my entire adult life helping people as a police officer and I’m going to advise readers they should buy a gun with problems? Not a chance that will happen ever for any reason. If I won’t carry it myself you’ll know about it.

Yes there are readers who like what I write and say so.I appreciate that. If someone disagrees that’s absolutely fine and we can talk about it and exchange opinions in a civil manner. I have no desire to have everyone agree with me. What I do expect is a mutual respect to base our exchanges on not personal attacks which have nothing to do with the gun review. Nor does it contribute anything.

Phil White

Matt,

I just remembered there was a torture test a competition shooter shot 1000 rounds of Black Hills as fast as the mags could be changed. The gun got hot enough to blister his hand. No malfunctions of any kind. They had a raffle for that 1911 to raise money for charity.

Of course somebody else bought the ammo. The video is on You Tube. I believe it’s under Para torture test.

Daniel

It is a 9mm 229 with the SRT and short trigger and no rail.
It will be a fine weapon but only marketing makes it related to the 228.

Anonymoose

Does anyone know if it can use higher-cap 9×19 P226 mags?

Phil White

Anonymoose,

That I’m not 100% sure of.I would think you could but again we didn’t discuss interchanging mags.

Neil

P224 will only except the ones that came with the e2 guns marked p229-1. With that change, Im not sure about the originals as I hope they do too. However I do suspect that they will!

Phil White

Neil,

I commented back to Tony after I called Sig just now. Here is what they passed along on the magazines.

“It will actually take both 228 and 229 13 round mags and yes the M11 A-1 uses a new mag to get the 15 round capacity.So,they all interchange with this new pistol. Dimensions are the same——”

Bad Enough

Every time I see something about a new Sig product I get really excited because I want to believe that they are releasing something with ambidextrous controls thats not a pocket pistol.

As a left handed person, I want to believe so bad.

Phil White

Bad,

That’s actually something interesting I’ve never considered on a Sig “P”series. I wonder if it’s feasible to make those controls ambidextrous. I suppose it would depend on whether there is room on the right side for the controls to clear the other internals.

Neil

The mag release can be reversed for left hand but internal design wont let the decocker or slide release. If they had a big enough demand, they “might” beable to do something for the slide release but I don’t ever see the decocker being able to change! Hope this helps. After all they say at armorers school and in the manual, ” don’t even take off the grips off if your not an armorer”. There’s a spring under the right side grip that does not fit into the very obvious spot. Ive helped a lot of people cleaning under the grip. It’s a real easy mistake to make! After all, there’s only one pin in the entire gun that doesn’t come out! Hope this sheds some Light on this for you! Have a great day!

TexasG

Most of the shooters I speak to say; decocker is easily learned for left handed shooter. They say it’s a “muscle memory” using your left index finger to de-cock and eject magazines.

Phil White

TexasG,

That would work well also with practice—— I guess the main thing is pick a method that works best for you then develop that muscle memory:-)

W

they really dont need ambi controls. With proper training, left handed people can operate the weapon just as easily, just as quickly.

The only concern is the decocker, which can be activated by a left handed shooter by rotating the pistol slightly clockwise, then bringing the right hand thumb down on top of it. very simple, very efficient. Most right handed users I know use the left handed thumb to push down the decocker LOL. sometimes well worn or dirty SIGs require a little pressure to decock that can be inconvenient for the firing right hand thumb.

Phil White

W,

I think it’s one of the easiest pistols to adapt to for left handed shooters. I know I practice a good deal left handed and the Sig de-cocker is fairly easy to use with the trigger finger or my preferred method using the middle finger which keeps me from changing my grip very much at all.

I have tried the left hand to de-cock one and of course it works fine since your left hand is the support hand with the thumb right next to the de-cocker.

http://www.batmanbatmanbatman.com Woodroez

For what it’s worth, the P250 is ambi, with it’s dual slide catches, reversible mag catch, and no decocker (since it’s DAO). I know that gun doesn’t get a ton of love, but I think it ought to. I’m thinking about getting one.

Lance

The ad is misleading. I do know NCIS and CID uses some SiGs most pilots and air crew use M-9 Berettas. Too bad they wont go with the Coast Guard and upgrade to .40 S&W over 9mm. Both SiGs and Berettas can be modified to shoot both.

Phil White

Lance,

Yep true enough but the government was very adamant about the new pistol being 9MM.I’m sure a lot has to do with the amount of 9MM they have on hand. The Air Force is considering them but only without night sights. No nuclear material in the aircraft!
The newer Marine investigative unit uses them also. Jeff named off a good number of other agencies that use the 228. If memory serves the number was approx.10-12 agencies.

Lance

I do know the marines are still buying M-9A1s for none SOCOM marines and I do know the Army and air force still buying M-9s from a 2009 contract.

Phil White

Lance,

I’m not 100% percent on that first sentence but the Marine special units are switching to the Colt 1911 we did a story on a short while back. The regular troops do still use the M9 as well as the big Army, Air Force etc.
The 228’s are for the investigative units of the military as well as some tank units of the Army.

W

The M11 is a awesome handgun. Though largely not anything spectacularly advantageous over a Beretta or Glock, they are mighty convenient for plain clothes carry or in confined environments compared to other full size handguns. They are very accurate, reliable, and fun to shoot.

The military wont go to the 40 S&W and they shouldnt. Looking at established fact with wound ballistics, there is a negligible difference between 9mm and 45, let alone 9mm vs 40, even with ball ammunition. Im really puzzled as to why the coast guard would do this; certain SF units did this too with the Glock 22. Im sure they have their reasons.

Yes, there are a lot of US government agencies, inside and outside DOD, that use the P229/228.

Phil White

W,

You hit that nail on the head.There are so many government agencies we never even hear of using the 228.In fact some are very small agencies. Like I was saying earlier I can’t wait to get my hands on one for an extended time.

Your also correct that ball ammo is ball ammo for the most part. Without expansion the diameter of these rounds isn’t significant enough to make a great deal of difference. Shot placement is even more critical using ball ammo.

Lance

I meant regular none SOCOM units in the Marines are still getting new M-9A1s yes SOCOM marines are buying 1911s but M-9s are still in there inventories as well. I think you mean some army pilots most tank units I know have M-9s.

Phil White

Lance,

Ok I gotcha now the non SOCOM units. M9’s will be in the inventory for a very long time to come without a doubt. To clarify I was talking about the U.S. Army Tank-automotive and Armaments Command. They have the Sig SP2022 but the M11 is under consideration.

Mike

Just curious, Lance; what exactly makes .40 an upgrade from 9mm?

W

lol the only upgrade from 9mm or, any other pistol caliber for that matter, is a long gun caliber.

Phil White

W,

The first choice in any confrontation is always a long gun. When you get down to it a pistol or revolver is a second best tool compared to a rifle or shotgun.

tony

Does it take 228 or 229 mags? 15 round 9mm mag that fits flush in a 229 frame, is it a new mag?

Phil White

tony,

It will actually take both 228 and 229 13 round mags and yes the M11 A-1 uses a new mag to get the 15 round capacity.So, they all interchange with this new pistol. Dimensions are the same——

schizuki

I’d be happy just to find a MK25.

Phil White

schizuki,

I’d like one myself but the supply is pretty slim right now. They seem to be selling as fast as they can make them.

Ryan

If only it had a threaded barrel. Sig… Please a threaded barrel…Please!

Phil White

Ryan,

Some of the aftermarket folks may be able to accomodate you with a threaded barreL?

Thomas Nelson

it’s not hard to thread it your self any lath hand could do the job for you or show you how in a matter of minutes can’t wait to get me 2 or 3 of these

Phil White

Thomas,

I imagine it would be fairly easy to do. I just checked Gemtech’s website who of course make suppressors but they also have a barrel that fits the Sig 228 and 229 in 9MM for $235.00. That includes a screw on thread protector.

They offer several models of OTHER guns with threaded barrels. P250 compact, p239, 226, 229.

Neil

Ryan, Sig does offer threaded barrel. They run roughly $260.hope this helps!
Neil

John Doe

Tired of trying to carry a full-size Glock. My first Sig.

Phil White

John,

That would be much easier to carry. The grip is shorter for concealment than the Glock and the feel is very good as are all of the “P” series pistols.

John Doe

The Glock in question was my first handgun. Finally scrounged up the cash to buy a smaller carry gun. I like the Glock 21 a lot, but it’s too damn big.

Phil White

John,

The 21 is about as big as they come for concealed carry! It’s one of the few that just doesn’t work concealed but then you know that:-)

John Doe

Works well enough with a coat, but if it isn’t winter, I end up not carrying! Trying to change that. It was probably a mistake on my part.

Phil White

John,

That happens to more people than most would want to admit. It’s that old saying about it not doing you any good if it’s at home! John we all have made mistakes like that myself included. Like a revolver I really liked but it was pushing the limits of concealment and it was a real pain. I ended up trading the gun and learned a lesson.

rudy99

So what would be the motivator for not wanting a rail on a pistol? Is there some sort of advantage or is it just personal preference?

Phil White

rudy99,

It’s probably personal preference more than anything else. The non-railed pistols look better to me but the main consideration for me is not using the rail much anyway so it’s just extra bulk. Now if I hadn’t retired from police work I would use a rail and have a light/laser attached all the time.

Neil

As an instructor, I’m kinda against rail mounted lights and lasers. First off, whatever you point your light at also gas your firearm pointed at it. A seperate light in your support hand offers more flexability no matter what technique you use. Secondly and in my opinion most seriously, your trigger finger must stay outside the trigger gaured

Phil White

Neil,

Keeping the trigger finger out of the guard is probably the most critical safety rule there is. I’m not much of a laser flashlight guy either, not mounted anyway. At least the Laserguard uses an activation button on the grip frame.

Neil

Sorry I hit publish to soon! I was just going to point out that if you keep your finger out side the trigger guard other than to put it in there to actually take the required shot, you will have a faster response time than if you are doing other things with that “dedicated” trigger finger like working momentary switches on lights ect! Hope this helps that’s my only problem with rails or rail mounted devices.

Phil White

Neil,

Gotcha and I do agree we can add so many things to handguns and rifles we actually handicap ourselves time wise. Again I’m glad the new Laserguard uses a momentary switch you don’t even have to think about since it’s right under the middle finger.

Brandon

I wish I could get a Sig with a safety instead of that decocker mechanism. I shot a p226 and loved it aside from that feature.
If I could get a pistol with the Sig’s trigger and an HK USP style safety. I would be a very happy person

Phil White

Brandon,

I have to admit that would be an interesting pistol. Honestly though the Sig system, with the decocker, is a good way of putting your pistol on safe. It does take a bit of getting used to at first but becomes second nature after you’ve used it a bit.

Tim

You can get the 226 with a manual safety. The 226 x-5 can be carried condition 1.

Mike

Depends on the X-Five. The Allaround model is still DA/SA with decocker, but the other models are single action only.

Sig also makes single action only versions of the P220. I’ve got one and they’re good. [blasphemy]I’d take a P220 SAO over a 1911 any day.[/blasphemy]

I really wish they’d get off their ass and make a single action only version of the P226 that didn’t cost $2000 (X-Five is X-pensive), like they did with the P220. I’d be all over that.

FourString

Yah ditto on what you guys said. I would love a 226 with a safety, but I’m not sure why that’s reserved only for the very expensive X-5

while the standard p220 has the manual safety… does anyone know why they did this? just wondering..

Phil White

FourString,

The X5 is a single action of Sigs design and was made to compete in IPSC. They made two versions which is the competition and standard carry model. That’s the reason for the single action though. That’s also why it’s more expensive than a tricked out standard action 226.
The X-5 base gun is built on a beefed up 226 pistol.

Mike

The X-Five actually uses a longer frame than the P226.

Phil White

Mike,

Five inch barrel in the competition model——-

Mike

Everything except the Allaround if memory serves. I know the Tactical model (probably my next pistol) is the longer frame, too.

Jay

Ive always felt the DA/SA pull with the pistol Decocked was an excellent safety system. Safe that you can’t fire it by accident and safe that if you pick it up, then pull the trigger it goes off. Very good condition 1 pistol. Just My Opinion.

Phil White

Jay,

You’re right Jay. It’s unique and well thought out. While very safe you’re ready to go with no need to take the time to manipulate a manual safety.Kinda like a semi-auto with a revolver feel trigger pull.

Mike

You’re confusing the Short Reset Trigger with the Short Trigger. I’m sure this pistol has the Short Reset (very good thing) and the “short, thin trigger” you describe is the short reach trigger, which is only a good thing for people with small hands. It’s not desirable for everybody.

I would like to get an M11A1, but if I do, the first (and probably only) change I’ll have to make is a standard reach trigger, since it fits my hands perfectly.

I have the same issue with the newer “enhanced” grips. Too small.

Phil White

Mike,

I always meant the short reset trigger but the “short thin” I said confused some folks. I’ll rephrase it so there’s no confusion. Man I understand the trigger change for you but this new trigger being able to reduce travel by 60% would be hard to let go of:-)

Mike

Oh, I have the short reset on my P226, and it makes the gun much easier to shoot accurately at speed. Before the short reset sears, the trigger had to go all the way to the forward limit of travel to reset, leaving you with a mile of take-up.

But again, that’s a sear upgrade (all new Sigs have it, and you can retrofit older Sigs, like I did with mine). The thin trigger is the short reach trigger for people with smaller hands. I’m sure this pistol has both, but the short reach trigger does nothing to reduce travel. It just reduces the reach to make Sigs easier for people with smaller hands to shoot.

TexasG

Listen up boys, I just received my MK 25, it’s TOP SHELF. M11 A1’s in the running for my “next on the list” buy for TexasG.

Phil White

TexasG,

Probably the best of the “P” series Sigs!

gunfighter 2012

I had a 228 several years ago. A real delight to shoot, fantastically accurate and a joy to carry. IMHO the 229 is a pig; the absolute antithesis of the 228. Return to us the “original” 228, please.

Phil White

gunfighter,

Well that won’t happen but the 228 was and is a very good pistol. They still make them but only for the government contract.

45CALifornia

if they took the same dimensions of the original 228, which is my understanding they did, the grip will be no wider for a different mag. the original sig 228 factory mags were capped at 13, they the easily could have held 15. thats why mec-gar (who made sigs mags at the time anyway) marketed a mag under their label that was the same exact size as the sig-labeled mag that held 15 rounds.

Phil White

45CALifornia,

What Jeff told me was the frame is from the 40 S&W/357 Sig which is slightly wider to accomodate the extra two rounds of 9MM.I’d bet money Mec-Gar will have extra capacity mags for the M11 A-1 in short order.

45CALifornia

as i haven’t yet had one in my shop to know for certain you (and your source) are wrong, all i can say is why would sig make an M11 variant (which IS a p228 for all intents and purposes) which is perfectly capable of holding 15 rounds already (as my p228 does) and give it a bigger frame to hold 2 more rounds, which it can actually already hold? it makes no sense that they would make such a beloved gun bigger for no reason.

Phil White

45CALifornia,

I don’t want to go back and forth on the subject but I’ll just say that if the man who is the director of product development at Sig is wrong I’d be very very surprised. I mean this is not a regular customer service guy or girl!

As I said it’s a bit of a combination of the 228/229 on the surface but an entirely new gun otherwise. As far as frame size the difference is minimal to the point I doubt anyone would even be able to notice. Blindfold someone and put one of each in right and left hands and it would be darn near impossible to pick between the two.

Check the photo of the M11 and it’s slide. It’s not even close to a 228 slide. The slide looks more like a MK25 in design.Certainly the M11 slide is shorter.

Of course your 228 and the one I owned holds 15 rounds with an aftermarket mag but Sig doesn’t design guns based on aftermarket products and the possibility someone may use other branded mags so why bother making this one. Now that really makes no sense.

When you get right down to it all three Sigs are great, and as you said beloved, pistols. It’s a matter of choice.

Phil White

45CALifornia,

When you get one in your shop I’d really like to hear back from you on what you think of it if you don’t mind taking the time.

Neil

Just to let you guys know, there is a size difference on slides that’s go on non railed vs railed frames. I had an extra slide and found from Sig that you can’t put one off a non railed gun onto a railed frame. This also prevents someone from buying the .22 p229 and getting a cheaper used slide on it and having both for a pretty good savings. For a while, CDNN had slides minus the barrel and recoil spring/rod for $89! They want you to but a slide from them!

Phil White

Neil,

It sure sounds like it doesn’t it. Thumbs up!

Randall Johnson

I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want a rail. I have a 229 elite dark with a rail. Even though I don’t use it, it doesn’t get in the way of anything. Is there some benefit of no rail that I’m missing?

Of course, rail or no rail, I want this pistol!

Phil White

Randall,

I guess I’m just a bit of a traditionalist. Pistols without rails just look more streamlined to me. Kinda like the rail was an afterthought.

I don’t use a rail either so why have one.

Randall Johnson

I have to say, the Sig SAS models without a rail look really good… very sleek. I keep thinking I’ll pick up a rail mounted light or maybe a laser/light but I never really get around to it. Maybe when I get around to buying a full size automatic I’ll get one. My PPS and 229 are my ccw weapons… working out the holster light combo is too much trouble.

Phil White

Randall,

The SAS is a very slick pistol with the melted corners it’s a no brainer it will never hang on clothing or anything else. It just looks good! With the new Laserguard out I’m pretty sure Crimson Trace will come out with a laser for the M11 A-1. For me that’s the best of both worlds when you can leave it on or remove it as you please. Even though the MSRP is between $259 and $299 it’s still a big money saver as apposed to buying a new pistol. Of course I can always come up with a reason for a new gun:-)

What you have now in the Walther PPS and Sig 229 would be and is a great combination for carry! The PPS is about my favorite compact 9MM. That pistol has a wonderful trigger not to mention how slim it is.

Neil

Just a note on the PPS. I have 3 and have to warn you that some need returned to Walther/s&w because the removable back strap with the main sping disconnect or safey will not lock in all the way if you wear it in your waist band or bang it around. It’s a cool idea but if you don’t feel the 1/8″ at the top of the back strap from it not locking in, you have a totally disabled weapon! I guess they’ve gotten many calls about this exact problem. If you know the feel in the dark without looking you’ll be better off. I love the polymer on polymer trigger. It takes less than a box to break in and makes a real smooth trigger pull for double action only pistol. I’m just not willing to bet my life on a good name, pricey pistol with that back strap saftey! It makes everytime you pull it out a gamble…

Phil White

Neil,

I understand the problem with the backstrap only happened when people made a habit of using this unneeded feature a lot as well as changing grip sizes often for different users.

I picked my grip size right away and left it alone and never had any problems.

Gordy

Real 228’s have “Germany” somewhere on them and have stamped steel slides. This is Sig marketing at its best.

Neil

I’m a huge 228 fan. There are some 229’s with a made in Germany frame and all have a made in the USA slide. As a sig armorer, the only difference I’ve noticed in frames are the decocker springs on the USA ones are WAY stronger than the German ones. They all have the same part numbers. The USA made ones will pop the decocker so hard, it almost skips it out of your thumb. The German ones, you can gently and very quietly actuate the decocker and even hold the decocker lever down after the trigger has lowered. That’s almost impossible on an American made one.

Droid

gak_pdx

what is wrong with the sig pro, I spend more time with the licensed replica than the real thing, my partner in the usa lets me shoot her 2022 and I love the gun so am interested in your thoughts. since it seems to be universally raved about

Phil White

Droid,

Honestly I think it’s one of the most under rated polymer framed pistols on the market. The price is very good to start with. It’s an accurate pistol that conceals well and is very reliable. Why we have a fair number of people that call them all kinds of names I don’t understand. I really wonder how many that talk bad about it have actually shot one or just repeating an opinion based on Internet forum speculation.

Ian

Ball mill grooves provide a worse grip, not a better one. They just happen to be cheaper.

Phil White

Ian,

According to Sig they took extra time to mill the grooves this way. They do feel sharper than the standard cuts. That may be true on pistol grips but not with the slide cuts.

Droid

i adore sig pistols in general maiy shoot the 226 or the 2022 when in the usa. they point well feel good in the hand and look good. I use thw replicas for airsoft currently carry a 2022 and want annother one and a 226.s

Phil White

Droid,

I’ve seen some pretty thumbs down comments on the 2022 but I agree with you it’s a fine pistol and very underrated.

XUSMICO

Got a 226 in 1990. left the M9 in the armory. WHY CANT DOD GET ITS head and a** wired and see that the Sig is a FAR SUPERIOR gun. the “manual safety” is not required for SEALS, Avatiors, and Investigators. Dump the M9, period. Guess their is too much money passing hands.

Phil White

XUSMICO,

The 226 has it all over the M9. The M9 not a bad pistol by any means but if I chose between the two I’d take the 226 every time. Who knows how the DOd makes it’s decisions.It’s just one of those mysteries we’ll never know:-)

Neil

I can tell you your right! The berettas ok but the sig Will out live all of us all and then some! The problem lies in the fact that they can buy 2 berettas for what one Sig costs…..I’m sure this is a major factor if not the entire reason. The sig will not break. The first one I saw had two peices(about 1″ each) out of the rail on the right side and one peice about 1 1/2 inches out of the rail on the left. It had over 125,000rds thru it and still shot 1-1/2″ groups at 25 yards… I keep I needed one!

Phil White

Neil,

I’m not surprised at it had that many rounds through it and held up that long! Mine will be handed down to my son and daughter with plenty of life left in them.

Neil

Plus the controls are located in spots the average hand will not have to re-adjust the firing grip to work like slide release, mag release ect. It just works! The beretta is big but comfortable. You just need to re-adjust to properly manipulate the controls. German engineering fixed that just like everything else they pour their and soul into. Gee, and I’m an HK guy to!

Phil White

Neil,

That’s exactly what I meant when I said the safety is like no other. Yes a bunch have de-cockers but none engineered like the Sig that you can manipulate with one hand with little or no adjustment in your grip. Try not changing your grip with a well most any other de-cocker pistol!

There’s just nothing like German and Swiss engineering. Cars, bullet trains, guns whatever you want to name they do pour their soul into everything they make. I’ve never seen half way measures in a Sig.

Those who want to call it cheerleading can feel free to do so but quality is quality.

Neil

I couldn’t have said it any better if I tried!

http://Yahoo.com Gunnersmith

Well, the M11-A1 will be an improvement but Sig still doesn’t have it perfect, yet. If they added the beaver tail that they added a few years ago to some models, and lengthened the grip frame an additional 1/2″. Adding the beaver tail would aid in making faster draws and the added grip length would help me so I can quit pinching my little fingers when doing speed reloads, then it would be perfect for me IMHO. These are 2 short falls I have learned from from shooting my P228, which is my go to pistol when a 1911 doesn’t fit the need, which is very rare but does happen on occasion.

Neil

I Think there’s a 226 that has the grip extension you need and a beaver tail also plus a short reset trigger. I’d have to look and see which one. I know it’s not an X5 variant.