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Pity the poor Chevrolet Volt. It’s built by GM, the company that took a multi-billion-dollar taxpayer bailout. It’s a car that comes with a $7,500 government rebate. Now it’s being dissed by Fox News and chain-mailers for costing more to drive than a gasoline-powered car selling for a third as much. GM got hosed, not so much by Fox News as by a parallel chain letter (“Cost to Operate a Chevy Volt”) that overstated the cost of electricity by a factor of 10. The Volt costs a lot to buy but it’s clearly cheaper to run than a gasoline-only car. Snopes.com did a good job deconstructing the chain mail. On battery power, the Volt costs around 5-7 cents a mile to drive, less not more than a gas-engine car.

Here’s the backstory. Perhaps tired of being dinged by Fox for the bailout thing and for a compact car that costs almost $40,000 after rebate ($46,500 list), GM put a press fleet Chevrolet Volt in the hands of Eric Bolling of Fox’s The Five (video embedded below). Maybe they thought Bolling would feel the same kind of love for the Volt that tree huggers experience upon climbing into their first Toyota Prius. Not quite. Bolling criticized the battery-power performance of the Volt, about 25 miles, when the Nissan Leaf approaches 100 miles. Bolling noted that, two days in a row, “The car ran out of electricity in the Lincoln Tunnel on my way to work,” which prompted a co-host Kimberly Guilfoyle to pipe up and say, “I’d rather roller skate backwards in the Lincoln Tunnel than drive that thing and break down.” Bolling added, “Why would you put out an electric car that gets only 25 miles?”

The show mistook the Volt and Leaf as the same kind of car. The Leaf is an electric-only vehicle, good for 75 miles, maybe 100, then you park it. GM calls the Volt an extended range vehicle; “hybrid with a big battery” would be a good description, too. Where a hybrid might get two miles from its battery, the Volt with its bigger battery pack gets 25 to (on a very good day) 50 miles. When the Volt runs out of battery power, it auto-switches to the small gasoline engine and soldiers on for 300 miles. The reason for the medium-size battery is because most daily driving is less than 25 miles, which means the car can be charged overnight, and for longer trips it switches to gasoline.

The “Cost to Operate a Chevy Volt” chain letter went beyond the Fair and Balanced Network’s opinion that the Volt wasn’t a good deal financially for taxpayer or Volt-owner. Using a figure of $1.16 per kilowatt hour for electricity, the chain letter concluded, “So Obama wants us to pay 3 times as much for a car that costs more than 6 times as much to run and takes 3 times as long to drive across the country.” Electricity actually costs about $.127 per kilowatt hour now; a tenth of what the chain email states. The battery pack stores 16 kWh of energy, but, says GM, not all 16 kWh are used. A full charge adds 9.6 kWh that can be used to move the Volt and another 3-4 kWh are used in charging on a 120-volt system, less with a more efficient 220-volt charger. So a full charge on 120V power consumes 13.4 kWh of electricity, or $1.57. The Fox News 25-mile jaunt thus cost 6.3 cents per mile; if the Volt got 35 miles on a charge (not unusual), it would be 4.5 cents per mile. A compact car getting 35 mpg would cost 10 cents per mile using $3.50-a-gallon gasoline.

The chain letter’s claim that it would take three times as long to cross the US as a gasoline car assumes the Volt owner would stop to refill the gas tank and recharge the battery each time, meaning you’d drive 4.5 hours then stop for 10 hours, drive 4.5, stop for 10, limping across America. That’s absurd but that’s what you expect when you get letters prefaced by “Urgent. You MUST read this and pass it along.” A response on a GM blog was right on target when it started by quoting mathematician and ex-Dartmouth College president John Kemeny: “The man ignorant of mathematics will be increasingly limited in his grasp of the main forces of civilization.”

The GM bailout may or may not have been a good idea. But GM is back now, its new cars range from decent to world-class, and it’s on a pace that might see it earning $10 billion in profits this year.

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Anonymous

While I accept the Fox News claim that it is Fair and Balanced (usually) on the subject of the Volt it has shown itself to be biased and whacked out!
I own Volt #1494. In the 50 weeks since taking delivery I have done 13,000 miles, used 107 gallons of gas. At $3.50/gallon that’s $374.50 versus something north of $2500 in a typical gas only car. The Volt is fun to drive, corners like it’s on rails, has great pickup from a start or from 40 to 70.
The Fox Folks owe the nation an apology.

mori bund

“While I accept the Fox News claim that it is Fair and Balanced…”

Sarcasm?

Anonymous

If you buy a gas compact car the size of a Volt one would typically get some 28~40 mpg. For ease of numbers let’s use 30mpg.At 30 mpg and 13,000 miles you would burn 433 gallons of fuel x $3.50 per gallon would equal $1,518.00. Take out the $374.50 of fuel you burned in your Volt leaves $1,143.50 in saved fuel. The real price of a Volt is at least $20,000.00 more than a comparable gas powered compact car. Based on fuel savings alone it would take over 17 years to recoup the savings in fuel.
Many cars, including Chevy Cruze get around 40 mpg and you never have to replace a very expensive battery predicted to be some $4~8,000.00 in about 8 years. I’m not defending Fox news but it is not possible to justify a Volt on fuel savings.

Anonymous

You forgot the cost of the electricity to recharge the battery. That stretches out the payback period on the cost differential too.

Pablo

And don’t forget the $2000 to get a charging station and have it installed.

This is why the average Volt buyer is making $175K. This is not a car for the people. This is a car for people who want to feel good about driving an electric car. If that’s what you want to do, you’re better off with a Leaf.

http://twitter.com/LVMan777 Robert Harrington

“And don’t forget the $2000 to get a charging station and have it installed.

110 vac charge cord included”

ASSITED_SUICIDE

the 110volt cord that comes on the car takes about 10 to 20 hours to charge the car plus your car has to run the batteries cooling system while charging making it very inefficient

djona

10.5 hours max. What car takes 20 hours to charge??

ASSITED_SUICIDE

I believe when I posted this GM had battery options with the volt but it dose not seam to be any more and at the point I posted this that is what was posted for most of the batteries on the market

The cooling system if anything would probably just run the battery fluid through the radiator instead of powering up the air conditioner unless it’s super hot outside. 120V charging doesn’t produce much heat in the battery pack.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Have you charged a cell phone battery and it’s gets warm to the touch and that’s just a small one and they can’t run battery fluid through a cooler you have no clue about these cars they use a water based coolant to cool the batteries and they produce a lot of heat even on 110 v it the cooling system were to fail the car would burn up and I hope it’s not in the garage when it goes up in flames. Didn’t you know in the 90’s the same type of batteries that are in the volt were banned because they were catching on fire while being charged and I’m not talking about big ones I’m talking about one used for cordless drills and things like that

danwat1234

The battery pack in the Volt has many temperature sensors and also a coolant level sensor. If the car detects the coolant is low, it’ll stop charging. You can search on the web where Volt owners have had their car refuse to charge because the coolant was low. It would probably also refuse if the pack temperature got too hot and the cooling system wasn’t working properly. Laptop and cell-phone batteries will refuse to charge if they get too hot, an expensive car I’m sure will too.

so you would trust your house, you, and your families life to a few cheaply made sensors made in china.

danwat1234

yes

Gwolf

That’s not even close to being correct. It takes no more than ten hours with level one charging. Are you even capable of telling the truth about anything you post here.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

you should do some research your self the volt taking about 8 hours to fully charge to other battery operated cars taking up to 20 hours

Ky

Ignorance speaks. Obviously you have never set foot in a Volt before.

danwat1234

You don’t need the $2000 charger. Just plug it into the same plug that you plug your chest freezer into (120v)

danwat1234

Just use the 120V outlet in your garage.

Gwolf

You don’t have to buy a fast charger. You can get by just fine with a regular outlet in your garage. I metered mine for 100 days recently, it costs less than $30 dollars.

JW

The car is plugged into a regular 110 volt socket. You don’t need a special charger.

Jon Anderson

Ugh, of course you would try to back up a crazy point like that by using something dumb like basic MATH! And the fact that you’re trying to use simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and on top of all that division of real numbers?

I hope you’re ashamed of yourself! Obama is just trying to “change” things, and its people like you and your math that are stopping the US from being a utopia.

Fox news is bad; Obama for King in 2012!!!!

Anonymous

Hi Jon Anderson

I’ve read your comment some 10 times and still don’t understand it. Since when and why is basic math dumb? What other math besides addition, subtraction, multiplication and division is suitable for a basic application of numbers? Suggest you try reading my comment slowly and you will see the basic math explains the true numbers/facts in the comment from camper9574 in laymens terms.
Why should I be ashamed of myself? I just stated the true facts taking the numbers from camper9574.
And, what the heck does Obama have to do with justifying the payback of a Volt?

E Wong

I think he was being sarcastic and actually agrees with you.

Anonymous

Hi E Wong

Please hit the opposite side of my head as WaltzinMatilda.

Anonymous

It’s sarcasm…

And funny as hell !!!

Waltzin Matilda

Anonymous

Hi WaltzinMatilda

Please do me a favor and hit me up aside my head. After 11 readings Jon is hysterical!

http://profile.yahoo.com/7ZYWDEZTYCD7YQDSUFCLGHSMBM chin

Give me a break. I see Obama hurting our country more than fixing our problem. I sent a proposal to Obama to fix our econ back in early 2009. He did not take it because my wife is the supporter of Clinton not him. If he follow thru, our country would recover in 6 mo and only needs to spend $150B. Look at how much money he wasted and how much he costed our national debt. My plan is stimulate the auto industry rather than feeding them with bucks. This would make it is strong. I have no idea how bad this EV is until I get a hand on one. If you can do a simple math to calculate the future value, you will find out that it would not worth it because most car owner would not have it for 16 yrs.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

You sent Obama a proposal to fix the economy and he didn’t take it? Oh, my God. What possesed that crazy man?

Jean-Claude AskMe

Look into Tesla Motors.. They’ve managed to get it right with a total electric that has the range needed, and almost the same price as the volt. Instead of 25-40 miles, it gets hundreds per charge.

GM lost sight of the need for efficiency, thinking electric was good enough. They also caved, again, to their business partners, BIG OIL.

danwat1234

The base model S is $50K before tax breaks versus $40K for the Volt before tax breaks. ~125 miles versus 38 miles per charge, but the Model S has no onboard generator but I’d rather get a model S than a Volt.
$60K for ~200 miles and $70K for 265 miles EPA range.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

Jean-Claude, if you have the $60,000 for a Tesla S, you get a great car. Oh, wait, that’s more than the average person can buy too. You know, if we look back in the history of car manufacturing, a lot of features and new inventions worked this way: from the race car, the luxury car, and on to the mass market. It’s a familiar cycle. Somebody has a great engineering idea, like push buttons on the wheel for automatic transmissions in the ’50s Chrysler. Finally, the familiar P N D D2 R stick. Hydromesh. Computerized brakes. Fuel injection. It would be difficult to say what an electric car will look like in ten years. Having government money and research projects available will help: this is not the normal way that the automobile industry worked for many years, but uh, they went bankrupt using those methods. The cars of the future will have to be energy efficient. The Volt has pluses and minuses as a design. It’s over 100 miles a gallon. It will go about 350 miles on a tank. Then fill it up with a small bit of gas and go to a motel. Plug it in, too if you want — but you don’t have to. Voila, an electric car that has real range. One engineering solution to the problem, probably not the last. Yes, the people who can afford this are up-market. By the time it comes down-market, the kinks will be ironed out. Likely, the subsidy will be gone, or much lower by then. The purpose of that? Well, if it was purely a market decision, we’d all be in SUVs that roll over and get about 13 mpg. Those days are gone. Oh, and here’s another fact: if the Bush administration had given this loan, you’d be full of praise for it.

fantasywriter

Your use the word “utopia” and “Obama” tells me everything I need to know about you. Unless you’ve been hiding under a brick and don’t know what’s been going on in our country you truly have been blinded by the rhetoric of the left. You are losing your freedoms daily because individuals, like you, are only viewing each thing this man does and never taking in the whole. The results are in, our public education system has succeeded far beyond their wildest dreams. By intentionally raping our children of their natural ability to think critically they have created individuals like you. Utopia indeed. Gulag would be more appropriate.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

So let’s look at the big picture but let’s first quote Obama “I don’t care if the government shuts down” over Obama care. Ok so we still haven’t hit the bottom of this recession we are in our government has been locked down because there is no money for theses expenditures. Our education system has not gotten better it’s gotten worse there are kids graduating from high school that can’t do simple math they don’t know how to read and you state that we are better of now. Let’s take this to the next step. These people we can’t call the ignorant because our education system has failed them can only get minimum wage jobs. Minimum wage goes up and these uneducated people think hey I’m getting paid more great. But for us that can see the whole picture, we se more people getting laid off more people havering to be on government aid and the people that are working pay more taxes. But Waite if I buy a brand new Chevy Volt from a company that is now owned partly by the government (which is agents the constitution) is now giving out a tax write on up to 9,000 dollars for a car that the material for the batteries only comes from China and that the country is now how many billions of dollars in debt to, and the government is losing money on the the shares of GM stocks they own oh and most of the parts are built in China. So why should we buy this car? Because it’s “green”. What environmental regulations dose China have where the car is actually built? Why dose the government want to buy a car that is a financial failure up till the government tried to help? What happens when a company know the government will just bail them out? What will happen when some one finds a better method? Will there be any money left to go in a better direction? Why dose the government want us to be uneducated or at least educated in the way they want us to be? If you want to reduce the use of oil get a bike or use public transportation if I could I would. Don’t buy in to a false sense of Sacurety such as the Volt. Get educated don’t rely on just one news source look the information up for your self. Yes all the oil we are burning isn’t good at all but let’s not put all of our dice in one bag and leave some better options open. And don’t rely on the government.

fantasywriter

Wow, it’s been so long I hardly remember writing this, but I stand by everything written. I also agree that the possible environmental damage making these batteries in China could and probably will come back to haunt us. In addition, all good liberal things come with consequences, good and bad. What is the consequence surrounding the batteries used in those cars? Here’s one, what do we do with the batteries once they have reached their batteries life. You can’t recondition them so they will have to be disposed of. I lot of very bad things in those batteries and if they are sent to the dump those things can get into the environment. We might have to find a safe place to store them. I guess they never thought of that.

danwat1234

The batteries don’t get ‘disposed of’, they are recycled. Lots of metal in them that can be used again. Dismantled/shredded, made into new batteries. Should be as clean of a process or cleaner than recycling a typical lead acid car battery.

Also before they are recycled, they can have a second life, buffering energy from wind farms, act as a backup power source for a neighborhood, etc. When they really get old they’ll get recycled. I’m talking hybrid (small), plug-in hybrid (medium) and EV (large) batteries. Hybrid batteries may be too small to have a 2nd life so they’ll probably go straight to recycling.

Gwolf

What has any of that to do with the technical merits of a vehicle. Get some therapy; you do know that the Bush administration was the one that encouraged GM to create the Volt. The Bush administration created the tax credits for fuel efficient vehicles. How do you manage the mental gymnastics of dragging all this other baggage into a debate about a technology only speaks to how truly dysfunctional we have become. A nation with this many mentally ill cannot survive for much longer.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

I thought you were just saying that bush was an oil guy and didn’t want electric vehicles. Wow you call me a lier and you pull this switch

Gwolf

You must have me mixed up with someone else. I wouldn’t say that because I don’t have a selective memory. I remember things the way they really happened.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

wow you call me mentally ill im not the one that has to rely on the the electrical grid that can go down from just a few min. to days just to get to work.

Craig Bilodeau

Your numbers are way off. First, I haven’t seen $3.50 gas in at least a year. Right now it’s over $4.50. That makes the fuel cost $1,948.50. That makes a difference of $1,574.00. Also for a comparable car you’ll pay at least $25,000. That makes the difference of $15,000. Take out the $7,500 federal tax credit and the California $1,500 and that leaves you with $6,000 more expensive. That means in less than 4 years you will be saving money. And that’s if gas prices stay the same. Witch they won’t.. They will go up. Also the battery has a 10yr 150,000 mi warranty. So no need to buy a new one in 8 years. Last but not least, the volt is eligible for a carpool lane sticker in CA, which is worth a lot more…

Anonymous

Your numbers are way off.(sound familiar?) First you deducted the $7500 tax credit twice. Price for Volt is $47000. If you are unlucky enough to live in CA you get another $1500 totaling $9000 in taxpayer money given to a company that already got $50B of our money. That makes the Volt cost $38000-$25000 for gas powered equals $13000 difference in inital cost. Using 30mpg for gas car(actually low) and the numbers from Volt owner(13k mi per yr, 107 gal used), with $5/gal gas, cost different would be about $1630 per yr. Then subtract the $2 in electricity($.15/kwH and only charging on weekdays) per charge cost for Volt, difference per yr is about $1100. At end of 10yr you will still be out minimum of $2000 buying the Volt. The warrenty for battery is prorated, meaning earlier replacement will not be free. No one knows exactly how long battery will last before replacement, what the cost of replacement battery will be (currently $8000) when it is replaced or what the value of the Volt will be in 10yr. With no warrenty for battery and 10yr old electric technology, the resale value will be considerably less than a gas powered car. The only way that this car will be accepted is if it is mandated by law, which if Obama gets re-elected will probably happen.

http://twitter.com/LVMan777 Robert Harrington

Do you REALLY THINK gas will be $5 a gallon in 10 years?

ASSITED_SUICIDE

You do know that if the government didn’t control the US oil companies the way they do gas prices would be cheaper. And so would many other things

ASSITED_SUICIDE

You do know that if the government didn’t control the US oil companies the way they do gas prices would be cheaper. And so would many other things

And the battery replacement won’t be as much an issue in 8 years as it is now (though all batteries are currently still covered by the 8 year warranty). The next gen Volts batteries will have more capacity and will cost less. Granted, with technology changing rapidly, a 2012 Volt’s trade in value will be low in 10 years, but just imagine where your ICE’s trade-in will be when batteries are cheap and plug-ins the norm, with the Obama Volt Mandate.

It really kills me that conservatives are so terrified of Obama’s motives. He could bring Jesus back and you’d all be atheists by lunch. No offense, honestly, but just try to parse the logic of this innovation out from the political battle lines, just for a second. Imagine all the foreign oil it’s not burning. Or don’t. Your kids will figure it out.

Anonymous

Yup, good point – “
not possible to justify a Volt on fuel savings” . Your calculation is simple, and close-enough-to-correct to make the point. HOWEVER, it was only valid when you wrote 3 weeks ago. Ignoring all other factors, as gas continues its inexorable rise in price, the savings/year increases. And most everyone knows it.

Right now, where I live, gas costs $4.21/gal, and is still headed up in price. Running your calc now, the Volt has a 14.6-year break even. Again using your formula, one sees that, at an average $6.13/gal, the Volt has a 10-year break even.

Expand and refine your formula, and have fun, but it’s pretty clear where energy costs and the world are headed. I can’t afford a Volt, Tesla Roadster/S/X, Fisker Karma, Porsche 918, or even a Leaf. So, I drive my 22-mpg vehicle as little as possible, and expect my next car will only be a hybrid or plug-in electric…or CNG, or hydrogen, or (?) Keep calculating – it’s just a matter of when you choose, or are forced, to pick a greener kind of get-up-and-go.

You also forgot a lot of other things like lower maintenance costs. Although its not completely electric you would still need less maintenance not to mention that an electric motor lasts way longer than a reciprocating engine. I’m no fan of the limited battery size but I still support the technology. just think about this for a second. Electric motors last longer because they have less moving parts not to mention a small fraction of the vibrations. In a standard 4 stroke with engine running at 3000 rpm the pistons have come to a complete stop then changed direction 6000 times a minute. . Now whats easier to use A circular saw or a hand saw. You tell me. Reciprocating engines are a dying relic and the man who invented the electric motor we use today was well ahead of his time. He also created the technology that cell phones are based on. Don’t get me wrong though the price tag on the volt is outrageous there is no real reason why we couldn’t be mass producing these types of tech for cheaper today.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

very true

danwat1234

In the future I’m sure it’ll be less than $4,000. Buy an old Volt used in 8 years, say a 2013 model so then engine won’t ever turn on unless it’s colder than 15 degrees F outside and you get Mountain mode. Buy it used for say $12,000 and you’ll have a bit less range than when it’s new. When the pack gets too old I’m sure the cost won’t be that bad. Like how a brand new Prius battery pack is only $2500 or so now and buy a refurbished one way cheaper.
You also may have the possibility of getting an upgraded battery for the old 1st generation Volts.

And the Cruze only gets 40MPG on the highway. It’s a heavy car (~3,200 pounds) so it’s not that great in the city.

http://needtochill.com/ manny

Yes that is why i did not buy a nissan leaf or a Volt. in the short it looks like a buying one is a no brainer, but its bad in the long run. i also got similar math that you got. so i agree with you.

Gwolf

I hope you don’t do cost analysis for a living, yours is deeply flawed.

limp1

Didn’t due a complete cost analysis. Just used the gas and mileage figures presented in camper9574 comment. And these were best case scenario.

Gwolf

The simple truth is that depending on your commute a 35 thousand dollar Chevy Volt could easily be the most efficient and practical car you can own. After credits and incentives it’s an absolute steal. Corporate medias unique contempt for this car and its technology only reveals the threat it represents to the people that own the media. All the rationalizations and distortions of the facts are meant to bury the one technology that has a chance of replacing the 100 year old cash cow that is the internal combustion engine. They haven’t figured out a way to exploit us with it and that worries the hell out of them.

With current technology pure EVs are not a threat and may fade away dismissed as nothing more than a fad, at least that’s what they are banking on. Range extenders and long range vehicles like the Tesla could ruin everything so naturally they will be attacked most vigorously. Propaganda works and facts have very little to do with it. It works through half truths and outright lies to evoke an irrational emotional response in the weakest minds in the crowd. Sadly, they grow more skillful with it every day.

limp1

The truth is we are discussing the savings in fuel costs as justification of purchasing a Volt. My comment had no distortions or misapplication of reality. The reality is one cannot justify purchasing a Volt on savings derived from fuel savings.

Gwolf

No I would never suggest anyone buy a car they didn’t like just on economics, though a Volt is extremely economical. Personally I like it just as a car. I was all set to buy another $50 K mid level sedan when I test drove a Volt, bought it there and then. It has exceeded all my expectations to date. I have no doubt that if people knew what I know from experience as opposed to what Fox news says, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

Anonymous

Did you use the heater when cold or the air conditioner when hot?

When the batteries crap out you’re looking at a cost somewhere in the $10,000 range; i.e. part of the cost of operating the car.

Do you carry the charger with you so you can recharge on long trips?

Have you taken a long trip? The average daily commute is somewhere around 80+ miles – – calculate that

I use whatever I want when driving my Volt. There seems to be a
widespread misunderstanding of this car. There is no need to
“recharge” the Volt when the battery runs down. The on board gas
engine drives a generator to make the electricity that keeps you going. Only if
you run out of both gas and electricity do you have a problem.

I have taken trips of three hundred miles in my Volt. The first 40
miles are electric, the rest are 40 miles per gallon on gas.

If you have a round trip 80 mile commute, you could do that on one
gallon if you can’t plug in at work. If you can, you might use a cup.

Unlike the pure electrics like the Leaf, with the Volt, you won’t
“flutter” to the side of the road out of juice, ten miles from home
after 100 miles. In the Volt, you will be just humming along on the gas
generator. (Be sure to fill the tank whewn needed, just like any other car!)

By the way, since my original post, my Volt was broadsided by a
Tahoe. The airbags deployed, the right side doors a bashed in, and, if they
total the car, I will buy another Volt right away! It is really a great car!.

buckwheat123

I have been an auto mechanic for 40 years.I just want to know a few things. How far will the car go on a full charge and a full tank? Can you take it on vacation cross country? How much power does the AC and heater drain from the battery? How much do replacement batteries cost? There is no info on this?

danwat1234

The 2013 Volt will go 38 miles on electricity (EPA rating) and then around 342 miles on gas. Yes you can take it cross country just like any car and you can tow a small trailer with it too if you choose to do so.

The AC draws maybe 2,000 watts max, usually less I’d imagine since it uses a variable speed electric powered compressor. The heater is resistive, not a heatpump, so it could take 3,000W+.

Replacement battery packs are expensive and will be for another 10-20 years but it is warrantied for 100K/10 years.

With regular hybrids like the 2nd generation Prius, replacement battery packs are “cheap”, $1,000 or less on Ebay.

Did you know thet the Chevy volt can actually catch on fire due to leaks in the battery colling system after a wreck. Did you also know the batteries them selves can catch fire do to overheating meaning all the lithium ion batteries even the ones in your cell phones and laptops. You should probably also know that they have to redesign the connection of the battery to the rest of the car so the rescue personnel dont get electrocuted when removing the injured from a wrecked electric or hybrid car.

danwat1234

You have your facts wrong. The only Volts that have caught fire were ones that were crash tested with a severe side impact crash test. The cars were laid upside down and the gas tank and battery pack were not drained like they should. 3 weeks later sparks began to occur and eventually fire broke out. 3 weeks later. It was discovered that damaged coolant lines were to blame. GM since has reinforced this are of the battery pack so this won’t happen again and free recalls to get this done if you have a Volt already.

But who stays in there upside down car for 3 weeks after a major crash?

They don’t have to redesign the connection of the battery for rescue personnel! They already have a procedure for fire personnel to follow to disconnect the electrical connection of the battery from the vehicle and a method for draining the pack and gas tank.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

its not that your in the car for three weeks its the safety issues of tow truck drivers and the people who work around wrecked cars and the weight of the battery dose not change the way the car crushes and that your trying to tell me that the Chevy volt is heaver then a full sized pick-up or a tow truck. i have a picture on my phone of a Prius that was crushed because a newer f150 ran into the Prius. the driver if the Prius died. the truck drive only had a few scratches. so you have to wait to be saved till the battery is disconnected before they can pull you from the car. that’s if they can get to disconnect the batteries easily. I will stick to my old truck. its been around for the last 45 years and will still out last the batteries and other cheap parts in those cars.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

and where did you get the information about the batteries of the volt cant find it on Chevy’s web site

GM fixes problem, retested:
“NHTSA crashed a Chevy Volt retrofitted with GM’s newly designed steel reinforcement device in a side-pole impact test on December 22. The results of that crash test showed no intrusion into the vehicle’s battery compartment, and no coolant leakage was apparent. As a precaution, NHTSA has monitored the crashed vehicle since the test and will continue to do so for one more week. However, the preliminary results of the crash test indicate the remedy proposed by General Motors today should address the issue of battery intrusion.”

Yeah of course a large pickup truck weighs more than a sedan.. apples to oranges. I’m saying that say a Toyota Camry and a Prius aren’t much different in curb weight, and full electric cars aren’t much lighter than cars of similar size due to the weight of the battery pack. So the passengers in the electric car won’t feel more G forces than the regular car of similar size.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Thanks for the information. There are other vehicles out there I do understand you arnt going to win agents a tractor trailer but my girlfriend was the passenger in a car that was hit by a tow truck so it dose happen.

Dave

You go camper you go lol! See my post. Love the Volt!

Anonymous

Sounds like deja.vu all over again. Remember the GM Corvair and how Ford doctored a film of a crash. Ralph Nader went after GM based upon the doctored data, and GM tried to destroy Nader’s reputation. Made a hero out of Nader. Sounds like this time GM is handling the PR better.

Anonymous

Ironically, the volt is basically a terrible idea for the consumer (aside from creating a research and technology standpoint).

However, it boggles my mind that with a car so available to criticism, Fox News STILL had to make something up that is completely wrong.

Anonymous

What is it that you think Fox ‘made up’?

Anonymous

…The cost of electricity for consumer households. Did you actually read the article (or see the fox news presentation)?

Anonymous

As always, comparisons of cars like the Chevy Volt to a gasoline powered car continue to be flawed depending on which side of the fence you stand on.

The power that charges the battery in the care is not free and must be accounted for. Anyone using a “how much money I put into gas” argument to show the benefit of owning an electric or hybrid vehicle is being dishonest. A proper comparison needs to do a cost per mile comparison, and it needs to spell out how that cost was dervived.

Anything less is pointless, and that includes the Car & Driver article snopes uses to “debunk” the Fox news article. Car & Driver does not break down how it derives it’s numbers, and takes a lot of GM’s and the EPA’s statements are fact without verification. The Fox News article is probably bunk, but snopes failes to prove it. Other places have done a full breakdown (Popular Mechanics IIRC or maybe Popular Science) so why those articles aren’t used makes me wonder what agenda is being pushed.

Then again, when yor LiIo batteries have a habit of catching on fire you may have other things to worry about.

http://profiles.google.com/osheae Edward O’Shea

Um, the electricity IS accounted for in the above article “
So a full charge on 120V power consumes 13.4 kWh of electricity, or $1.57″, Snopes proved their point exactly, you just didn’t read the entire article.

http://twitter.com/billhoward Bill Howard

GM uses the figure 9.6 kWh out of 16 kWh of energy in the battery plus a couple kWh expended to pump energy into the battery (less waste if you use a 220 or 440 V recharge). Worst case, power company electricity repurposed to run an electric motor car is cheaper than gasoline. Just so long as you don’t figure in the slightly higher cost of the vehicle ($40,000 vs. $15,000-$20,000). That’s the price of investing in the future for our children and inner children. – BH, Extreme Tech

Edward Walsh

“slightly higher” cost of the vehicle? you are joking…right?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JYTFUENBY6FGOXWWCF7RXD2XNI stan

What about all the toxins from the batteries? That’s “For the Children” to deal with as well…..

And if you read the lower comments, the Volt doesn’t even ‘break even’ until 500K miles!! It won’t last that long.

Lastly, why should MY tax dollars subsidize a vehicle whose average buyer earns $150K/yr, and I make less??? Our tax $$$ should in no way be involved with buying a vehicle. Let the people choose….which is why Chevy has sold less than 7000 of those overpriced pieces of crap.
PS: I’ll keep my Tahoe, thank you!

Jason Cullinane

Toxins? You mean Lithium? You are exposed to real toxins by burning gasoline and making carbon monoxide as a byproduct of your daily commute. Car batteries have a lot of life left in them after the 8 – 10 years they serve in a car. There are plans to use them as a backup in your home. Once they outlive THAT life, the battery can be recycled.

What do you mean “break even”? Are you assuming that people who buy the car expect to recoup their investment? I have driven $20,000 cars and I have driven $100,000 cars and the Volt is a great car for $41,000 no matter how you slice it. I would easily put it up against a BMW 3 series. I also am getting 136 MPGe and charge my car for free at work. So I expect to see a lot of savings in operating costs compared to any gasoline car.

Besides getting the numbers wrong on Volt cost per mile (it’s $0.038 when using electricity), you have not calculated the costs of repairs. Electric vehicles are inherently simpler than Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) vehicles and have fewer parts to break. Yes, the Volt has an ICE but it will never see the same wear and tear that a normal car will have as this is the backup, not the primary.

The AVERAGE income of Volt owners is skewed because multi millionaires like Jay Leno are among the early adopters of the car. And as you pointed out, there are only 7,671 on the road.

You can keep your Tahoe… no problems there as it is a great vehicle for those who can afford to spend between $38,000 – $54,800 for a car. However, at 15/21 MPG you are going to spend $3,157 a year on fuel (15,000 miles @ $4 / gal). If prices don’t go up any further (and they will), you are looking at an operating cost of at least $25,256 for the life of your car (8 more years). It’s a great vehicle, but I would not want to pay that gas bill.. or future repairs.

Anonymous

Everyone keeps talking about the cost of fuel going up, but no one has mentioned the cost of electricty rising. This cost is going up as well. And the days of charging your electric vehicle for free at the office will be short lived when the office building electirc consupmtion starts to go up someone will need to pick up the extra cost. Do we think that is going to go unnoticed by the accountants?

http://profiles.google.com/khimera2000 Jonathan Freeman

which one do you think will explode in cost as time goes on though? I can see them moving on to alternative forms of power, but I don’t see the the price per barrel dropping any time soon. ya it might be more expensive in the future for electricity, but I would bet that it will be a lot more expensive for gas across the same time frame.

http://www.MekhongKurt.com Mekhong Kurt

Charging at the office may not be short-lived, since some companies are adopting solar power for that purpose, at least partly.

chernencoffa

There is a finite supply of oil I think we can agree on that. Well electricity has an infinite supply because it can come from many sources such as the sun. The sun emits more energy every second than humankind has used ever used, period. As far as I’m concerned the price of oil will never go down electricity potentially could. Supply and demand right.

http://twitter.com/n1djs Jeffrey King

“8-10 year old batteries still have a lot of life in them”. Yeah that’s why there’s such a big market for 8-10 year old batteries. :)

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Yeah that’s why there’s such a big market for Jeffery King.

Your point is..!!

The Point is, ALL Batteries are readily recyclable, pollutants pumped into the atmosphere are not readily recyclable for consumption again.

IOW We can control what happens to batteries after their used.

A typical 8 cylinder car traveling 1 mile at 60 mph uses

4 tons of AIR.

What’s your plan to recycle the carbon..!!??!!??!!??

The TONS of carbon every second of every moment of every day.

Can you tell me the date of when we will have saturated the surface of planet with carbon.

That day will come, no two ways about it.

Get it yet..!!

http://profile.yahoo.com/XPBATGNSNRCUXZWEPZFYWVYYZM Mark

After they decided to put catalytic convertors on cars,
carbon emissions were cut to a very low level. What
comes out of a tailpipe now is CO2 (carbon dioxide).
Carbon dioxide comes from a lot of sources, such as
when you exhale. Carbon dioxide is recycled by
plant life. Without CO2 all plant life on earth would
die. Plants take the CO2 and create oxygen. So there
really could be a way to recycle CO2, just grow more
plants. Or not, and we can all die from lack of oxygen

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Its not CO2 that the Cat. stops The Cat. is a filter which stops metal in the gas from getting in to the air but the problem is they cause the car to get lower mpg and all it dose is concentrate the metals.so if the car gets less mpg where actually causing more harm.

danwat1234

Yeah new emissions standards do tend to lower MPG
but they are truly lower emissions of NOX,
particulates and CO. SULEV and and especially PZEV rated vehicles have very low emission levels, besides CO2 which is directly proportional to MPG.

One way the MPG tends to lower is that these emissions certifications require the engine to run above idle when coldto warm up the CAT fast and that increases fuel consumption.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

that day will never come it is impossible the air around you is only made up of between 19.5 and 23 percent oxygen the rest is other gases such as CO2 and nitrogen and yes we can use the carbon in many thing they use carbon for your own body is carbon based. the trees need CO2. the tree separate the carbon from the oxygen, store the carbon and release the oxygen.you can neither create nor destroy mater only chant its form. meaning we can always separate the oxygen from the carbon ourselves.

danwat1234

The new Lithium Ion battery technologies last a lot longer than stuff your used to.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

any battery uses a chemical reaction to create the electricity when your battery is dead that means the chemical reaction can no longer happen because the materials are cant react any more. meaning the recycling programs usually include putting some of the spent materials in the the new batteries. older vehicles are also easier and cheaper to repair. the mechanic are going to have to charge even more on these electric cars because there going to need a hole new set of expensive electric tools to repair the electric cars. and i really don’t think a $41,000 electric car has the performance, handling, and safety of a $100,000 dollar car.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

i also for got why would you cant a battery capable of catching on fire in or near your house. Lithium ion batteries have been know to catch fire while charging or being used do the the heat that is created. the batteries in the cars do have cooling systems but it still happens.

http://profile.yahoo.com/7ZYWDEZTYCD7YQDSUFCLGHSMBM chin

If we let the Chinese built EV import, the actual cost would be about $20K not $40K per Chevy. Then it would be cost effective in comparing with gasoline power cars.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

If we let the Chinese built EV import, the actual cost would be about $20K not $40K per Chevy.

Wow…spoken like a true American..!!

Your the man..!!

Now see if you can read some of this blog..!!

ASSITED_SUICIDE

ya they would cost less but they would also fall apart just like everything else from china

Anonymous

The WIKI article on “Electric Cars” does a good comparison of the all-electric Tesla car to normal 25 mpg gasoline cars…comparing operating costs and maintenance (battery replacement) costs… and they show their math!

On a purely per-mile basis, the electric car comes out better -even taking into account the battery replacement costs… but as ‘limp1′ pointed out above, the day-to-day cost savings will take decades to recoup the higher cost of buying a Volt over a normal gas car… even with all the taxpayer subsidies!

What I don’t get is how GM with all it’s vast resources, could come out with such a low-tech example of an electric car… I mean most people won’t remember this, but 35 years ago – back in the early-mid 1970’s, the University of Florida Mechanical Engineering department (under Dr. Roan) developed a hybrid-electric car (based on a Datsun 510 platform) and also converted a city bus to a hybrid-electric drive system. Both vehicles were based on electric motor drive to the rear wheels, with batteries for pure electric and an onboard gasoline motor/generator that could recharge the batteries and provide electricty on the fly…

After 35 years, what has GM done to advance the ‘state-of-the-art’? I mean seriously, when I learned what the Chevy Volt offered, my reaction was… That’s it???

IMHO Fox News’ criticism didn’t go far enough! – They should research what was done 35 years ago by a couple of students and ask GM to explain why they couldn’t achieve a range of more than 25 miles on pure electric.

danwat1234

I’m guessing the batteries of the 1970s were lead acid, makes for a very heavy car without much cargo room since lead acid has a very poor weight to power and volume to power ratio.
I wonder how fast could that modified Datsun 510 could pull 0-60.35 miles (not 25) on electric range is pretty good. You try to buy 16,000 watt hours of premium quality laptop batteries and let me know how much they cost.It isn’t a low tech car. You might be amazed at how many sensors and computational power that car has.

http://www.MekhongKurt.com Mekhong Kurt

Regarding the total costs of operating a vehicle, regardless of how it’s powered, I have noticed countless times that those supporting fossil fuels (and almost invariably attacking alternative energy sources of any type) want to include to costs to provide the electricity to recharge a battery in vehicles that use them for all their actual travel, like the Leaf, or as a component in a hybrid, like the Volt. But they never mention comparable costs for using only fossil fuels.

The oil from which the gas is refined doesn’t magically transport itself to refineries, but has to be transported. then the gas has to be delivered to stations. Both cost money, so add to the overall costs of driving a gas-only vehicle.

Also, the possibility of partially replacing power grid electricity is already here, in the form of solar panels for homes. It doesn’t even need the grid at all to recharge the vehicle — just a few feet of wiring. Yes, the panels have to be delivered, too — but only once in at least 7-8 years. And with leasing becoming an increasingly popular model, solar panels become far more affordable for individuals. Further, both solar and energy storage technologies are advancing by leaps and bounds, driving costs down even further.

I watch Fox News fairly regularly, and when a story is about something that’s not a hot-button issue that’s highly charged politically, it sometimes is indeed quite good. But when it comes to reporting on issues such as this, forget it; “Murdoch Madness” sets in and takes command.

http://www.MekhongKurt.com Mekhong Kurt

Regarding the total costs of operating a vehicle, regardless of how it’s powered, I have noticed countless times that those supporting fossil fuels (and almost invariably attacking alternative energy sources of any type) want to include to costs to provide the electricity to recharge a battery in vehicles that use them for all their actual travel, like the Leaf, or as a component in a hybrid, like the Volt. But they never mention comparable costs for using only fossil fuels.

The oil from which the gas is refined doesn’t magically transport itself to refineries, but has to be transported. then the gas has to be delivered to stations. Both cost money, so add to the overall costs of driving a gas-only vehicle.

Also, the possibility of partially replacing power grid electricity is already here, in the form of solar panels for homes. It doesn’t even need the grid at all to recharge the vehicle — just a few feet of wiring. Yes, the panels have to be delivered, too — but only once in at least 7-8 years. And with leasing becoming an increasingly popular model, solar panels become far more affordable for individuals. Further, both solar and energy storage technologies are advancing by leaps and bounds, driving costs down even further.

I watch Fox News fairly regularly, and when a story is about something that’s not a hot-button issue that’s highly charged politically, it sometimes is indeed quite good. But when it comes to reporting on issues such as this, forget it; “Murdoch Madness” sets in and takes command.

Anonymous

Chevy advertises their car as an electric not a hybrid. There is no engine, when the batteries run out of juice the generator kicks on and the motors continue to drive the wheels. Its a case of semantics, and GM put itself in the mess by labeling it an electric car. Its a poor electric but an ok hybrid.

http://profiles.google.com/osheae Edward O’Shea

Chevy NEVER toted this as an electric car, it calls it a hybrid. And there IS an engine, that kicks in when the batteries are depleted, generators do not run on gas, the engine drives the generator which moves he motors. Did you base anything you spouted here on fact?

Do a find on that page for hybrid sir…
Maybe you should read what is on Chevy’s page before slandering others.

David LaPorte

Chevy actually called it an ‘extended range electric vehicle’. Extended range means it uses an onboard generator powered by gasoline to generate electricity to drive the car. While it is a hybrid in the most literal sense of the word, and behaves much like a hybrid once the battery is depleted, it’s drive train and ability to operate exlusively off wall power sets it apart from what is commonly known as a hybrid.

Jason Cullinane

Have any of you actually watched the video? First, I think it was a mistake to give anyone at FOX a Volt to test as they will never have an open mind, especially someone who was a shareholder of GM (as stated in the video) and no doubt lost a lot of money as a result of the bankruptcy. Apparently, the government thinks workers come before shareholders… and you can feel that come across in everything Mr. Bolling has to say about the car. I don’t know how he managed to only get 25 miles out of his battery in two consecutive days when I have owned a Volt for over a year and get an average of 36 miles on a charge (I drive in sport mode and accelerate hard, which is why I don’t get better mileage). Also, the claim that only 600 Volts were sold is off by more than a factor of 10… unless you only talk about one month…and then don’t say your talking about one month. Juan Williams was the only voice of reason, and that is not saying much. I expect nothing less from Fox News.

This has nothing to do with the car and everything to do with “we gave them 50 billion $$$.” This statement is also not entirely true as they received loans, not a handout. It is also apparent that the hosts don’t even know how the car works if they think that it “breaks down” after 25 miles. It was clear on the video that it switched from battery to gasoline mode and kept on driving. I have driven from San Jose to Los Angeles making the same stops I would have in a gasoline car except I was getting better gas mileage.What else was wrong here? The Volt holds 9 gallons not 10 gallons of fuel capacity. If you use a 110 plug, the car will recharge in 10 hours, not 12. It only takes 4 hours if you have a 220 dedicated charger. You need to go back to school Eric, because it is not 30 MPG, but rather the EPA rated 93 MPGe when you factor everything in. I don’t use gas much (except for long trips like the 800 miles round trip to LA and back) so I am getting 136 MPGe. If you never plugged it in, it would still get 37MPG. You are an embarrassment to journalists and you owe GM and the American people an apology. Why is Eric Bolling holding a gas nozzle? The Volt is a threat. The people he represents don’t want you off gasoline. Do you know how much money they stand to lose if we all were driving electric cars? It is insane to say that foreign companies like Nissan can invest in the future with the Leaf but GM, no, you should have gone under and paid out your shareholders like Eric Bolling. Excuse me if I side with an auto workers job here in the United States and the American designed and built Volt over an oil shill like Mr Bolling.

http://twitter.com/billhoward Bill Howard

The Fox screen overlay did note the 600 sales were in January. Journalists and automakers often focus on monthly sales (even more on sales-days-weighted averages) where real people think about annual sales. Any Volt blended mpg number (miles on battery plus miles on gas) is soft unless you interpolate the power plant energy expenditure into gasoline equivalents: 100 miles at 5 cents per mile on electric is $5; when gas costs $3.50 a gallon that’s the same as using 1.4 gallons of gas or 70 mpg. (Ignore greenhouse emissions, stuff like that.) Another 100-mile trip on gasoline-only at 33 mpg uses 3 gallons of gas. Total 4.2 gallons for those 200 miles only, or the equivalent of 48 mpg *for that set of trips only.” (I hope I got the math right.) I think the EPA 93 mpg equivalent is better than most drivers will see.

A loan is a loan not just a bailout only once it’s paid back, the same way a boomerang is a stick until it comes back. The Fox panelist who said the car “breaks down” in the Lincoln Tunnel is a lawyer and former Victoria’s Secret model, so based on one of those careers, some variance from reality seems acceptable. – BH, Extreme Tech

Jason Cullinane

Hi Bill, thanks for writing the article. I do have a few other things to mention. You are correct that they did place a screen overlay to say 600 sales were for January and thank you for the reasoning as to why they were not talking annual. I still find it strange that they never verbally mentioned the context of the number… like “this January they only sold 600 Volts!”

The Volt does not get $0.05 per mile, it gets $0.038 per mile in electricity according to Consumer Reports ($3.80 instead of $5 for 100 miles, a significant difference). Once it is running on just gasoline, it has a cost of $0.125 per mile or about the same as a Toyota Corolla (again, according to Consumer Reports). 75% of Americans commute within the range of the battery, so they would get the better mileage on a regular basis unless they did a long trip. Gas is looking to hit $5 this summer and is already past $4 in many parts of the country. I think you are going to see a spike in electric car sales.

If I may continue your metaphor, the difference between a stick and a boomerang is that when I throw a stick, I know it won’t be coming back. A properly thrown boomerang has an excellent chance of coming back. We have already had some of the loan paid back and the auto industry in America is as healthy as its been in years despite those who said we should let it die.

I’d say this is looking more like a boomerang.

Loved the Lawyer / model quip. Made me smile.

Jason Cullinane

Volt Sales up 70% from last month.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

I can’t excuse Fox News and/or the chain email for getting the facts wrong, but this debate really cracks me up. The real issue here is that the car was “forced” into production without market demand. It was all politics—green, green politics. It’s quite obvious that the price tag and even the nature of the car aren’t prudent for your average driver, and it’s been subsidized twice (the bailout and the rebate) by taxpayers to even make it a still-not-viable option for most.

I understand why the debate is about money now that gas prices are out of control, and it’s all very convenient for statists who would love to see industrialized nations pushed into alternative energy due to (manipulated?) skyrocketing energy prices, but the real issue here, as it was originally sold to us anyway, is a green one.

Unfortunately, electric cars, whose eco-deadly batteries are charged by coal-burning or nuclear-reacting plant-produced electricity are having a hard time with the “green” perception. A study last year (funded by the “Low Carbon Vehicle Partnership”) suggests that an electric car might actually have a larger “carbon footprint” than a gas vehicle until 80,000 miles, a mileage many electric vehicles might not ever reach.

I’m all about electric vehicles and alternative energy, but I’m also all about the “magic hand” of the market driving those innovations and ensuring that the right amount of any given product arrives at the right place at the right time at the right price to meet consumer demand. Foisting obviously unwanted products on the market and forcing taxpayers to subsidize them “for our own good” is insulting and absurd.

Warren Mccoy

Bravo, finally some reason in a slanted debate (on both sides). I drive a hybrid and rave of my 40+ gas milage, but paid $27K for it, and that cost me plenty! Overall the market will lean toward the vehicles that will keep us moving. We have to remember, those with a Green Agenda, don’t care who suffers as long as they get their way. If a plan to move toward a workable solution were laid out and put up real options, people would take it.
No one here talked about the battery and how fallable they are. My car had its battery replaced at 26Kmiles, (warrant was 30K) and I was told they should last 60K. (Should??) So we start filling up the dumps with car batteries ever few years. (not green) Overall the knee jerk response to Oil is just silly. Look for alternatives, prove your case, create a great product and it will sell. GM WILL NOT MAKE A PROFIT UNTIL THEY PAY BACK THE PEOPLE. Currenlty they still owe 40+ Billion dollars….. You can rely on a technicality on the label of PROFIT, but hey, give me 40+ Billion dollars and my company will PROFIT for the next 1,000 years!!! (Just living off the interest!)

Anonymous

Please tell me what hybrid you own. I’m *shocked* not just by the 26K number, but also by the “should” number of 60K. The 2007 Camry hybrid has a 10 year / 100K warranty on the battery in California (and I think 8 year / 80K elsewhere, but I’m certain in every case it’s > 60K).

I have a bit of “green agenda”, but more than that, I’m doing just a bit to lessen my use of oil, especially “foreign” oil. It also provides some protection against the really high gas prices that are coming as soon as Israel bombs a few locations in Iran. The 700 mile per-tank range provides some protection against possible supply disruptions. But if I’m right on the last point, a plug-in hybrid would be more useful.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

This “green agenda” apparently makes you ride roughshod over your fellow citizens, just like Hitler. Just sayin’.You monster, trying to keep down pollution and global warming, that thing us crazy people see happening all around us. What, you don’t want us to drown in the rising sea? Die of thirst? How could you!

Anonymous

Trouble is you people want everything perfect the first time out… Nothing is built that way… From the toaster to the automobile…

chernencoffa

seriously do you have any idea how many parts get replaced on gas and diesel vehicles? ( spark plugs, fuel filters air filters, batteries, fuel lines, solenoids, starter motors, transmission, differentials, radiator, carburators, fuel injectors, glow plugs, and much more. What do you have on electric. well you have some electric motors and batteries and in the volts case a small engine that doesn’t actually see use while the battery still has a charge.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

In case you weren’t aware, the Volt has both an electric AND a gasoline engine. So, um…

Anonymous

There are two parts to the problem in transportation energy: the energy, and the transportation of that energy. EVs tackle the second part, making the first part much easier. Saying that EVs are bad for carbon footprint / the environment is extremely short-sighted given how much they contribute to changing the nature of the problem.

As for the rest of the post, the idea that the government shouldn’t subsidize the development of things in the national interest is patently absurd. By that logic, we shouldn’t have invested in highways, parks, the Internet, medicine, science in general, and on and on….

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

“By that logic, we shouldn’t have invested in highways, parks, the Internet, medicine, science in general, and on and on….” Exactly. That is my logic – a limited government shouldn’t have invested in those things.

Anonymous

Yea… Lets all live in a third world country… They have no highways, parks, internet, or medicines to keep their populations healthy… Wellcome to “Little House on the Prairie”

djona

Welcome to Somalia. All the limited government you can stand and then some.

http://www.MekhongKurt.com Mekhong Kurt

Prairiefire2, if you genuinely believe that government shouldn’t have invested in projects such as the interstate highway system, airports, the transcontinental railroad back in the 19th century, you are almost certainly in a minority by a considerable margin. And what about even earlier government efforts, such as the Lewis and Clark expedition — the first step in westward expansion — and the Erie Canal, both paid for up front by the government alone?

What should the government invest in? Fossil fuel subsidies? Wars? — there you go: let’s privatize wars and go back to purely mercenary military forces.

Or nothing at all? If that’s your answer, then I would say you need to explain the need of even a limited government — after all, in that scenario, it wouldn’t have a function. Or, I guess, we would have to go back to tribal lords, since the third alternative would be anarchy.

http://www.MekhongKurt.com Mekhong Kurt

Prairiefire2, if you genuinely believe that government shouldn’t have invested in projects such as the interstate highway system, airports, the transcontinental railroad back in the 19th century, you are almost certainly in a minority by a considerable margin. And what about even earlier government efforts, such as the Lewis and Clark expedition — the first step in westward expansion — and the Erie Canal, both paid for up front by the government alone?

What should the government invest in? Fossil fuel subsidies? Wars? — there you go: let’s privatize wars and go back to purely mercenary military forces.

Or nothing at all? If that’s your answer, then I would say you need to explain the need of even a limited government — after all, in that scenario, it wouldn’t have a function. Or, I guess, we would have to go back to tribal lords, since the third alternative would be anarchy.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

Any idea when private industry would come up with the Internet? Money became available for competitive bids. University, think tank, a whole pile of people acted on it. They didn’t envision the World Wide Web at the start, but it came up, like Silicon Valley, because of a huge pile of Defense and basic research dollars into Universities and corporations. I suppose, with Comcast and AT&T and Sprint and Verizon competing very hard to sell access to their closed networks, they might have come up with the idea of a worldwide sharing of data between all the world’s computers based on TCP/IP and HTTP and so on, but I’m not going to hold my breath. Before that, we had proprietary networks, America Online, Compuserve, sign into the racks of big iron, where you’d still be paying by the minute for a very slow data crawl. Private companies do research, but they research only what they can bring to market easily. Next year, maybe. Corporations don’t spend huge amounts solving basic problems, and when they’ve got something, they don’t open up the technology for all to use, they wall you off onto a proprietary network, because that means money for them in the short term.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

Ack! Disqus deleted my other comment.
I was basically saying that, contrary to your assertion to the contrary, there is a huge difference between subsidizing products that would otherwise fail in the marketplace (like corn ethanol, the Volt, and upgrading perfectly good cars and appliances to, ahem, “stimulate”) and providing what most would consider basic governmental services like highways.

However, not impressed by our oh-so-“enlightened” 21st century thoughts on political theory, your example of highways, parks and science does not fit my beliefs in limited government, classical liberalism, and personal responsibility anyway. So I guess they might as well be considered “subsidies,” as I’m against them as well.

Anonymous

Your other comment is right there, above.

It’s true – it’s not the 18th century anymore, and it’s a more complicated world. “Basic” governmental services have also changed with the times, and they now include protecting the environment, watching the economy, managing trade, etc. While one can pine for the ‘good old days’, I, for one, am glad that most of my fellow Americans see how government can support progress, and understand how our Constitution applies to our modern knowledge and circumstance.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Not many people say that. However, most would say that the government should not be in the business of choosing what’s best for consumers. Core technologies, core infrastructure, yes. But even there it is not a common event for the government to make good decisions. Greenies would argue that Eisenhower botched it with highways, that they created a car based culture.

http://disqus.com/sdmitch16/ Steven

They didn’t almost go bankrupt selling Volts. The bailout bailed out other gas powered cars.

chernencoffa

First off I would like to say I agree with a lot of your points. I don’t agree that electricity is just as dirty as gasoline first off I live in canada and majority of our power generation is renewable hydro power which is clean, hell they even make fish ladders as to not affect wildlife. I would also add the ecological damage of batteries doesn’t even pale in comparison to the several disastrous oil spills throughout oils history not to mention the oilsands and the vast amounts of water that get wasted to first get the oil out of the ground then refine it. I believe electric is the way of the future. technically you can transmit electricity through the air so potentially in the future you wouldn’t even need charging stations. And about electricity vs fossil fuels for pollution. You forget how much electricity got used to get you that gas. Gas is pumped electrically not to mention all the water they use to make refined gas which was also pumped with electricity. I can go on but i wont.

Instead I will move onto this invisible hand you speak of. IT DOESN”T EXIST. If this so called invisible hand did really run the market how come we bailed out the banks and the auto industry? How come only a few key people really call the shots. The invisible hand is not real in our current corptocracy we live in. I very much so agree with your notion that the price is artificially manipulated though. I mean most people know that the price of diamonds is artificially inflated, is it that big a leap to think gas prices are too. Would make more sense than the market controlling the price I mean in canada where majority of north america’s oil comes from i might add we pay $4.70 per gallon here where I am, and it costs even more in other places in canada.

One more thing before I go. I just wanted to say I don’t beleive man made climate change exists. I think It’s totally bogus but I still think we need to get out of our transportation rut the reciprocating engine is archaic and stupid. To me using reciprocating engines now that we have better alternatives(not including hydrogen just as stupid really) was like using a horse in WW1 against entrenched germans.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

Thanks, chernencoffa – you’ve hit the nail on the head!

The invisible hand, as perfectly captured by Leonard Read in his essay “I, Pencil” (http://mises.org/daily/4736) does NOT exist. That would be capitalism in its truest form. Instead, we have corporatism, a collaboration between business and government that rewards them at the expense of the taxpayer. In capitalism, businesses rise and fall, competition is merciless, and consumers win. In corporatism, you have BAILOUTS. You have banks and automakers that SHOULD have failed who are instead given a shot in the arm of taxpayer (consumer) money to keep them going. Winners are chosen by politicians instead of consumers, and the market concept breaks down. The best products aren’t what are produced, and prices aren’t as low as they should be (because the government believes it knows better than market demand). Unfortunately, we capitalists aren’t effective at pointing out that this is NO LONGER capitalism. This is CRONY capitalism, or a “corptocracy” as you call it.

Capitalism allows for the rise of the eBook and the demise of Borders. Imagine if Borders (or Borders’ unions, if it had had them) were large enough to gain the notice of the government: corporatism would have given Borders taxpayer money to kept alive retail stores that no one would shop at.

As for the rest of your points – right on! They would all be addressed by a market free of “we know better” government intervention: Electricity would naturally replace gasoline when the market dictates that it is economical and prudent to do so. Internal-combustion engines would retire and give way to newer and more efficient machines. Oil and diamonds would go up in price when in high demand, more companies would produce to meet that demand, supply would rise, and prices would come down.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

Worst pollution America is suffering from? Libertarian foolish idealism like this. Get a clue. Look at our real history of development. Americans used to be good at it.

Anonymous

I’d like to point out that my electricity costs 17 cents a KW/H during the day, but 6 cents a KW/H at night…When I would be charging the car.

So GM’s numbers are more than realistic…

Not that I think the volt is a well positioned consumer vehicle, but I find it retarded that Fox news needs to lie when there are plenty of ways to truthfully criticize the volt.

Fox News is anything but.

http://twitter.com/billhoward Bill Howard

EVs and extended-range hybrids (Volt) are going to advance time-of-pricing. This is mostly good. During peak periods, it’s for a couple hours a day (hot summer afternoons, winter evenings) that power plants run close to capacity. To take advantage of the savings, you’ll need a new washer and dishwasher, not to mention new furnace controls, to save the most money.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

That was the chain letter that gave the wrong electricity cost.

some_guy_said

Fox news, and many other sources have given the wrong cost for electricity…which just boggles my mind, because the correct electric costs are widely available, and easily checked…

I’m tempted to believe that Fox news picked up their estimates of electricity price from the chain letter…

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

OK, if you follow the link above to Snopes and read the full report, the bottom line is that the Volt cost $0.07 per mile compared to a similarly equipped 4 cylinder car which costs $0.11 per mile. That makes the Volt $0.04 cents cheaper per mile by my math. The part I don’t see anyone looking at is that the Volt cost about $20,000 MORE than that 4 cylinder. More math…$20,000/$.04 = 500,000 which is how many MILES you would have to drive to BREAK EVEN. At an average of 20,000 miles driven per year, it will take you 25 YEARS to break even on a Chevy Volt. Who in their right mind would buy this thing?

Anonymous

You’re forgetting that the Volt is generally a better car to drive (test drive it yourself!), which more than makes up for any remaining cost difference for those that can afford a car in this segment. As of now, the Volt isn’t meant to compete for those constrained to $15k cars, but more to eat the lunch of half the luxury segment.

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

That’s pretty subjective. The Hyundai Elantra decked out is $24k, a Ford Fusion nicely equipped is $24k, the Volt is nearly $44k. You telling me it drives $20k better than either of those? I know there’s a tax subsidy on the Volt, but the math still comes out ridiculous even if you count it (we’re all paying for that as tax payers). Maybe the Volt drives like a dream, but I’m betting it’s not $20k better for the average American. It’s not a smart purchase for the majority. So why would we try to incentivize people to buy a bad deal during record deficits with our tax dollars? Makes no sense.

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

That’s pretty subjective. The Hyundai Elantra decked out is $24k, a Ford Fusion nicely equipped is $24k, the Volt is nearly $44k. You telling me it drives $20k better than either of those? I know there’s a tax subsidy on the Volt, but the math still comes out ridiculous even if you count it (we’re all paying for that as tax payers). Maybe the Volt drives like a dream, but I’m betting it’s not $20k better for the average American. It’s not a smart purchase for the majority. So why would we try to incentivize people to buy a bad deal during record deficits with our tax dollars? Makes no sense.

Anonymous

Well I will tell you why… When computers came out they cost thousands of dollars…. You could use a hand crank calculator for a few hundred…. Yet people still bought them… Now computers are fairly cheap and a hand held calculator is hardly ever used by anyone.. Like with all tech knowledge it is expensive at first but price comes down and more are adapted… Get over it… Your Fusion is a dinosaur…

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

Yes, but did the government subsidize computers when they first came out? I’ve got no issue if someone has extra money and wants to pay big bucks for the latest gadget. I have a problem with my tax payer dollars being spent to encourage people to buy cars that won’t save them any money even with the tax break. We’re BROKE as a country. There’s better things to spend money on. The only ones benefiting from this are people who apparently have money to burn anyway.

Anonymous

Uh, yes. The government did, in fact, subsidize computers when they first game out. They actually sponsored the R&D and purchased many of the first ones – search for the word “government” in the “History of computing hardware” Wikipedia article, for example. They also subsidized the networks that would become the Internet.

There seems to be a fantasy like every good product out there explodes onto the scene like the iPad or some such. In the vast majority of cases, that’s just not how innovation works.

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

Yes, NASA, the military, and other research programs certainly contributed. But I don’t recall tax credits for that Apple II+ my parents bought me. It’s different.

Anonymous

Symantics… You paid the Apple tax instead by paying tomuch for something that should have been half the price.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

The computer industry, and every phase of the development of transistors, lasers, printed circuits, etc., got generous government subsidies. How? Well, a good part of the subsidy was in the form of Defense money, which is the dirty little secret of the virtuous libertarians; Ronald Reagan slashed programs for the people and doubled military spending, as well as military research. I would have thought that libertarians would insist that government totally break its ties with the military. Oh, wait… no.

Anonymous

As a matter of fact it did… The Ineac(I may have spelled it wrong), one of the first working computer was built with government money. Intel and Texas instruments was all funded with government money…

In the case of the Volt, a little fewer that 7,700 sold, but let’s use the round number. The rebates for them cost a total of $57,750,000 — a huge amount for th majority of us, when we think of it in personal terms, yes; I’m sure you and I both would be delighted to get such a bundle.

But with roughly 312 million Americans, the per-capita cost works out to just under 1.9 CENTS. You wouldn’t give much of a windfall on your taxes savings from that.

Also, how do you feel about subsidies for oil companies? Don’t those help encourage us to buy cars that use fossil fuels? How is a subsidy for that fair but the mirror one for the Volt unfair? The absolutely lowest estimate I’ve read for the amount of those subsidies for oil companies (and coal and gas) is $4 billion, which works out to just over $12.82 per person — 675 times as much as the rebates those Volts cost us as a country. Incidentally, at the other end of the scale, I’ve read estimate of $32 billion for those fossil-fuel subsidies — 8 times as much as the number I used above, which raises the per-capita cost to $102.56.

Also, the only motive you grant people willing to buy a Volt is to “pay big bucks for the latest gadget.” As you and I both know, that is an important factor for early adopters in just about every instance. But *some* people have additional motives that can’t be fairly ignored, such as being willing to pay more for the long-term benefit of society, even if they won’t live to see the payoff.

Let me take that to my own example. All the taxes I pay eat a chunk of just under 40% of my income, counting federal, state, and local ones. I’m excluding sales and fuel taxes because though I’m American, I live abroad and don’t visit the U.S. that often, though it’s from there I derive all my income (and I do have family and friends there, own property and am registered to vote there, etc.).

I don’t begrudge that portion of my tax dollars that go for things like education (though I don’t have any children at all, nor ever have), medical care, police and fire services, (some) transportation infrastructure, and the like, though I personally derive very little benefit from those things. About the most important services for me personally are police and fire protection for my property. Anything else is indirect, peripheral, and minute.

I don’t *mind* — I’m investing my country and her people. And no, I’m not trying to paint myself as some do-gooder. If my country and my fellow Americans all go to hell in a hand basket, of COURSE I would care, and sure as heck don;’t want that to happen.

Concern for the environment is part of the reason I’ve reduced my energy and water usage by about 2/3rd’s the past few years, though yes, the savings on my bills are a factor, too. And I’ve done so with negligible effect on my lifestyle.

Grant people a little more than purely selfish motives. At least some of us.

In the case of the Volt, a little fewer that 7,700 sold, but let’s use the round number. The rebates for them cost a total of $57,750,000 — a huge amount for th majority of us, when we think of it in personal terms, yes; I’m sure you and I both would be delighted to get such a bundle.

But with roughly 312 million Americans, the per-capita cost works out to just under 1.9 CENTS. You wouldn’t give much of a windfall on your taxes savings from that.

Also, how do you feel about subsidies for oil companies? Don’t those help encourage us to buy cars that use fossil fuels? How is a subsidy for that fair but the mirror one for the Volt unfair? The absolutely lowest estimate I’ve read for the amount of those subsidies for oil companies (and coal and gas) is $4 billion, which works out to just over $12.82 per person — 675 times as much as the rebates those Volts cost us as a country. Incidentally, at the other end of the scale, I’ve read estimate of $32 billion for those fossil-fuel subsidies — 8 times as much as the number I used above, which raises the per-capita cost to $102.56.

Also, the only motive you grant people willing to buy a Volt is to “pay big bucks for the latest gadget.” As you and I both know, that is an important factor for early adopters in just about every instance. But *some* people have additional motives that can’t be fairly ignored, such as being willing to pay more for the long-term benefit of society, even if they won’t live to see the payoff.

Let me take that to my own example. All the taxes I pay eat a chunk of just under 40% of my income, counting federal, state, and local ones. I’m excluding sales and fuel taxes because though I’m American, I live abroad and don’t visit the U.S. that often, though it’s from there I derive all my income (and I do have family and friends there, own property and am registered to vote there, etc.).

I don’t begrudge that portion of my tax dollars that go for things like education (though I don’t have any children at all, nor ever have), medical care, police and fire services, (some) transportation infrastructure, and the like, though I personally derive very little benefit from those things. About the most important services for me personally are police and fire protection for my property. Anything else is indirect, peripheral, and minute.

I don’t *mind* — I’m investing my country and her people. And no, I’m not trying to paint myself as some do-gooder. If my country and my fellow Americans all go to hell in a hand basket, of COURSE I would care, and sure as heck don;’t want that to happen.

Concern for the environment is part of the reason I’ve reduced my energy and water usage by about 2/3rd’s the past few years, though yes, the savings on my bills are a factor, too. And I’ve done so with negligible effect on my lifestyle.

Grant people a little more than purely selfish motives. At least some of us.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Please link to them. You can’t compare this way anyhow. Compare the “subsidies” as a percentage of revenue. But then if you do that, well then you will need to include the tax subsidies for the Volt’s plant and development and the tax credits and subsidy of the battery plant!http://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/16192 Oops, did we forget the subsidy for GM itself?

Anonymous

Electronic desk top calculators were easy to justify by offering many more functions, lightning speed, soundless operation, increased productivity and reduced size. Pretty easy to justify the added cost.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Don’t remember my computer getting a 17% government discount either.

Anonymous

In addition to what Prairiefire2’s post -

Yes, it is subjective. I can give you some objective measure of it, like that it got a #1 (93%) satisfaction rating, but it’s hard to understand what that represents unless you experience it yourself.

By the way, along the same lines, it’s also hard to understand what market it’s being placed in without shopping it against its competitors.

So again, don’t compare the Volt to a $15k car – the two are made for totally different audiences. Compare it to its actual competition. For the sake of argument, let’s just say that the price of a Volt (with a few options) is equivalent to a $28k conventional car after subtracting the tax rebate and 10 years of fuel savings ($43k – $7.5k – $8k = $27.5k). So it would be appropriate to compare it to those in that $25-30k price range – maybe the $25k+ Prius, or roughly $30k entry-level luxury cars.

If you’re waiting for a version of the Volt that does compete with those $15kish, er, less-expensive cars, I’m sure they’re working on it right now. I will give you that the Volt doesn’t fill that role, at least not the current generation of them. But it’s definitely a necessary technological step towards developing some “entry-level” EVs.

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

You keep putting me in a 15k car when I keep talking about 24k cars. With the way you’ve justified this to yourself, you could work on Capitol Hill.

I see the #1 rating on consumer reports, but as they point out…”The Volt’s rating is based on a relatively small sample of respondents who had owned the car for a relatively short time. We have found that most newly introduced models often score highly in their first year but often begin to drop off in their second and third years. For example, the Smart ForTwo scored an 84 in 2008, but by 2010 it had dropped to a 67.”

No doubt the new buyers you just got the car are quite pleased with themselves. Let’s wait and see what they think down the road. All the reviews from the professionals I’ve read generally say “pretty nice car, but it costs too much”.

The economics of it are clear, it’s not a car for saving money and I don’t like my tax dollars subsidizing it.

Anonymous

Hmm…I thought you were saying $20k less than the Volt including the tax credit ($35k – $20k = $15k), but now I notice that you hadn’t included the tax credit. Sorry that I misunderstood. But regardless, my point still stands – the Volt’s not competing with the low-20s price segment either.
Anyway, the future will see whether your prediction comes true. But even if it does drop, it is starting from such a high score that the score would still end up being very good.

This doctor manages to save $1.8k/year compared to his old car, though he doesn’t say what he would have saved compared to his alternatives. And he explicitly says it’s not just a cost thing, but all the other attributes (energy/carbon/American/etc.) as well.

http://disqus.com/sdmitch16/ Steven

I don’t like my tax dollars subsidizing the oil and gas industries.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Please link directly to documentation of subsidies and/or tax breaks that are unique to the oil industry.

Btw, I’m no fan of government subsidy, I just hate that meme.

http://disqus.com/sdmitch16/ Steven

I don’t like my tax dollars subsidizing things which inblude but are not limited to the oil and gas industries.

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

Just for grins, did the math with the tax subsidy and it comes out to 312,500 miles to break even or 15.6 years. Still dumb.

Anonymous

I bought my Chevy Volt at the end of August 2011 Its now the begining of March 2012,I have used 2.7 gallons in 5200 miles. I have to say I have a perfect commute and have installed a charging station at my auto repair shop.I still have the gas in the car the dealer put in the tank.I could probably get thru the year on the original tank.I wont have to change the oil for another 2 years I wont have to tune it up possibly ever, the engine cooling system may never need repair cause when I get to work the engine is stone cold very little thermal cycling therefore little wear and tear on engine components.My brakes are stone cold when I get to work The brake rotors still have the machine marks in them The Regen Braking uses the brakes sparingly more savings.When Fox News Presents their point of view They never figure in the Blood and Treasure we spend to keep the oil flowing out of the Middle East.Their Fair and Balanced View.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

Disagree with your Fox News point, but that’s a darn compelling testimony for the product, if not the subsidies. Too bad it takes “the perfect commute” to achieve those results.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Lots of things we use every day rely on “Blood and Treasure” including Lithium, cobalt, gold, etc. I glad your purchase works well for you, maybe you can kick the $7500 back to the government with your taxes.

danwat1234

Not to mention if you buy a Volt your giving the oil companies a virtual middle finger whenever your driving off the battery..

http://twitter.com/n1djs Jeffrey King

Only in America do some consider it cool and viable to produce: 1) a limited range goverment tax dollar subsidized car, 2) for a much higher price, 3) that requires plugging into an infrastructure that the current administration is active attempting to shut down (coal burning power plants), and dependent on limited life batteries with a high replacement cost, after just a few short years.

Anonymous

Grasping at straws… Anything to make the President look bad to forward your own agendas. The Volt has a gas tank.. You can run the car on gas if you like.. As for battery life… A person on average, owns their cars for 5 years(less if you lease).. The average life of the battery is stated as 10 years.. So you will have sold your car 5 years before it will need those expensive battery’s.

http://twitter.com/Vandalay1125 Joel Loyd

Who has the agenda here? Look at my post earlier, it takes 15 to 25 years to break even on a Volt and that’s assuming you never have to replace the battery! Again, I don’t care if people want to waste their own money on a Volt, I just don’t want MY money wasted on it. And that’s what’s happening with the tax credit. Who’s the government looking out for here? Are they looking out for their $50 billion “investment” in GM (also my money)? Or are they looking to pander to the environmental wing of the party? I can tell you who they’re NOT looking out for – ME!

I’m all for alternative energy, the sooner we’re off gas, the better. But you can’t force it, let the market work it out.

BTW, neither Jeffrey nor I even mentioned Obama. The green car tax credit was started under Bush!

Matt

I dont want to waste my money on war or tax credit for company investment into oil production. Why is the tax credit on the volt any diffrent? its my taxes that I dont have to pay not your tax money. Just like google or and farmer take tax credits.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

There has been one war about oil, and that was the first Gulf War, and if oil production would have stopped it would have been economic disaster.

Please point out exactly what tax credits oil companies get that other businesses do not. And what percentage of revenue they are.

No one is going to defend subsidies to farmers, one of Roosevelt’s bright ideas.

Lets see… You are talking about the little old battery that run most cars today… These are not the batteries that run the electric cars of today… Using 7 year old figures for the median age is out of date…

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

To be fair JK, the warranty is 8 years on those subsidized batteries.

danwat1234

Lead acid car batteries are completely different than automotive grade lithium ion batteries. Besides even with those basic lead acid batteries to can get a lifetime warranty through Costco’s Kirkland batteries, just turn your old battery in before the 3 year mark each time and you never have to pay for another battery for your gas car again.

These lithium ion batteries will probably last 15 years or longer without a problem. We will have to wait and see.

Seriously, who amongst us still trust in Fox News? There’s no more biased news network than them.

dragan d

MSNBC and CNN are more biased. Fox is just the only one biased to the right.

Anonymous

I pay $.06 per kh or about 50 cents for a 26 mile round trip to work!

http://twitter.com/n1djs Jeffrey King

No, just an additonal nuclear waste load that your dear friends who live near Yucca Mountain aren’t interested in having forced into their back yard for the next million years. Given something deadly for millions of years, or the carbon load that any tree scrubs from the enviroment, I’ll take the carbon…

Anonymous

Whatever one thinks of nuclear power, my utility uses it. I have no say in the matter. The fuel has the same useful life whether I use it or not. My Volt, charging at night, nether adds to nor detracts from the demand for/use of that fuel.

Anonymous

Whatever one thinks of nuclear power, my utility uses it. I have no say in the matter. The fuel has the same useful life whether I use it or not. My Volt, charging at night, nether adds to nor detracts from the demand for/use of that fuel.

http://twitter.com/n1djs Jeffrey King

Can I also interest you in my perpetual motion machine?: Re “My Volt, charging at night, nether adds to nor detracts from the demand for/use of that fuel.” I would suggest you take a high school physics course to understand….

Anonymous

From the Wirld Nuclear Assoc.

“Used fuel
With time, the concentration of fission fragments and heavy elements formed in the same way as plutonium in the fuel will increase to the point where it is no longer practical to continue to use the fuel. So after 18-36 months the used fuel is removed from the reactor.”

They seem to be saying fuel has a useful TIME.

http://twitter.com/n1djs Jeffrey King

The key “18-36 months of USE”. i.e. Control rods retracted allowing for fission to occur. ..

http://ENER-TOOL.com/ Patrick Knoelke

As a city-dweller with no garage it’s difficult to foresee a car requiring a plugin power source to really catch on. Now I understand a large majority of the population have a garage, but I believe the largest factor weighing against the Volt is garage access. How many people have a 2 car garage? Now how many of those have kids stuff or storage taking up at least half of the garage? I grew up in a house where the only time my father’s car could fit in the garage was during a hail storm (after some frantic rearranging).

We are a society driven by efficiency & ease-of-use. The car requires extra effort (although minimal, still extra effort), a full-time accessible garage space & costs a great deal – it seems the technology just isn’t there yet. It’s not really about the fuel savings or kilowatt hours used.Side question: Does the plug have a detach mechanism for anyone who drives off without taking it out?

Anonymous

You can’t move the car out of park if it’s still plugged in. And if someone else tries to unplug it while it’s locked, the alarm goes off. This car will not be for city dwellers who live in apartments until the apartments are retrofitted with additional outlets – when ever that may be. But I have to tell you that plugging in every night in my own garage takes 5 seconds. I do NOT miss stopping at gas stations and getting out in the weather for 5-10 minutes. I also don’t miss oil changes. The care for this car is probably less than my old car. Currently, this car is best for suburbanites who might otherwise drive A4, 3series, etc. It will be a few years before economies of scale and advances in technology bring the price down into everyone’s range. The thing I like about this car, is that it is technology made in America that runs on electricity made in America, rather than oil in some Middle Eastern country. I think the government SHOULD encourage people to buy it. We’ve been giving the oil companies millions in tax subsidies for years, despite them showing record profits. People should be outraged about that, rather than the turn around of an American iconic company, even if it did require some government assistance.

http://twitter.com/BrandonOMS Brandon Alexander

Here is a comparison from a 2012 Chevrolet Cruze LT to a 2012 Volt. Keeping in mind that these both will be used for someone who lives and works within 40-80km.

Ok, so the total cost over 5 years for the Cruze is $34,895.74…The Volt would be $39,966 difference of $5,070.26

Does the Volt cost more…of course it does….however it’s carbon footprint is less than a gasoline powered car.

Increase the KM and you close the gap. The Volt is a much nicer car than an LT Cruze. The LTZ Cruze would cost $4,435.25 more than the LT so almost even.

The Volt isn’t for everyone! It is not a mass produced vehicle! You can’t compare apples to oranges!

You are paying for technology. Thsi is like saying the Ferrari 458 Italia is a great car, but where do I put the baby seat…the car is useless!

For the record I love the Ferrari 458 Italis :D It is a great exotic!

Anonymous

There is no ‘off peak’ electric rate with our power company, and I’d guess the same for most Americans.

So, double your electricity cost immediately.

In addition, was 1.559 in January of 2009, in our town.

It’s 3.719 in our town today.

I guess we should all give thanks to Mullah Obama for pointing the way to cheaper ‘green energy and vehicles’.

:)

Waltzin Matilda

Jason Cullinane

Your guess is incorrect. Most power companies in the US offer “off peak” rates. Pacific Gas and Electric even offers a special plan for people with plug in vehicles. These are not a 2:1 ratio (as you assume) either but can be as much as 5:1 difference. There are also seasonal prices. Sounds like your utility is hosing you. With prices that high you would be better off to go Solar and wind and get off the grid.

Gas hit $4.12 under President Bush in the summer of 2008 but I don’t blame him directly for those gas prices. Gas prices are tied to oil prices. Oil is a global commodity so we can’t control the price – even if we “drill baby, drill”. This means that it is not up to who is in the White House to determine the price.

The price came down with the economy in 2008 – 2009 and has been increasing with the recovery.

President Obama is a Christian, not a muslim.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

He’s right Jason, we just got that ability in SoCal when we got the new meters. However, again the calculations don’t include the huge subsidies for the Volt and the electricity.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

Oddly enough, when they put those new meters in in Glendale, CA, a number of people began complaining about rays from them controlling thoughts or something. I think they should look at it, to see if there could be something to it, but I think we’ll find that some people are just neophobic and paranoid.

http://profile.yahoo.com/TXLNBTVHIAZRFGQTNKB6OTIQQQ harley040

The $41000 for the volt does not include the price of the 220V home charger. Add $5000- $7000 to the price. I agree that Fox news skewed the article, but the reality is that i can buy a $13000 car that gets 40 MPG that I wont have to worry about forgetting to plug in my car every night.

Mark Fisher

My 220v home charging station cost around $1300 for everything – the installation, the hardware – EVERYTHING! Your figures are way too high.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

How can that be, I read that the charger for the Leaf was $4-5k?

Jason Cullinane

The car comes standard with a charger for 110 that you can plug into your home.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

I wont have to worry about forgetting to plug in my car every night.

And don’t forget to brush your teeth..!!

danwat1234

You don’t need to buy the 220V charger. Just plug it into the 120V outlet in your garage, simple as that.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

you do need the 220V charger if you want to charge the car in less than 10 hours but obviously you wont be draining you battery to its minimum charge every day but it is very helpful in many cases.

Anonymous

That may be true but they were considered critical to
national defense.
Don’t know where a glorified golf cart fits on that list?

Jason Cullinane

New combat vehicles being proposed by BAE and Northrup Grumman for the US Army are based on Volt technology.

I think someone needs to include the fact that if you keep the Volt long enough. The batteries will have to be replaced. Not sure if that is figured into the equation? Also the fact that I am sure the Volt’s resale or trade in value is that great. Plus with a Volt you not only have a gasoline engine that still requires repair but also a electric portion that so far has been unproven and unknown as to how well it will hold up. I think its wrong to over play the positives too. That’s not fair and balanced.

Jason Cullinane

It may be a fact that you are sure, but hardly one in regards to a future trade in value. We will not know until years from now when people actually trade them in.

The Volt has a gasoline engine that is the same as many cars on the road today. This engine does not usually see use as it is a backup meant for longer trips so it will not have the same wear and tear on it that its cousins will see. The primary motor is the electric. Electric motors are simpler, and well proven. They have fewer mechanical problems because they have fewer parts so you will actually save money on long term repairs. We have used electric motors successfully in Submarines since the first WW and they are standard on Diesel Electric trains. Hardly new technology.

The batteries will eventually have to be replaced. There are no guarantees as to how much it will cost to replace them after 8 years of ownership. That is assuming that you desire to keep your car for more than 8 years (when the warrantee runs out). Given how fast mobile phone battery technology has changed in a few short years, it would not be surprising to see the cost and weight of electric car batteries coming down while the power density goes up.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Jason, can you take Richard’s place on this topic?

The question will be one of cost, after 8 years you sell a full gasoline car the buyer will not usually have to consider replacing an engine or transmission. My guess is that batteries are in that cost range. But I guess we won’t know until it happens.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

“I think someone needs to include the fact that if you keep the Volt long enough.

The batteries will have to be replaced.”

Yup….that’s why they remove the fossil fuel engine before they crush it, they last forever.
LOL

http://profile.yahoo.com/SAIWJCBRYDLECAXZGDSD3WOUDY F N

It takes 13.4 kWh of electricity for a full charge that will take the Volt 25 miles. Where I live, 13.4 KW hour will cost me $3.22. So final cost per mile with Volt on 100% electricity is 12.9 cents per mile.

We’re getting ~32 mpg on a 2008 Toyota Corolla with automatic transmission. With gas at $4.25/gal, the cost per mile is 13.3 cents per mile…a virtual tie with the Volt in full electric mode. The Volt costs a lot more $ up front, and I’m sure the cost of routine maintenance over 150,000 miles will be much higher than the Corolla. The biggest draw back with the Volt is still the need to recharge the battery every 25 miles!

Jason Cullinane

The Volt operating cost is $0.038 per mile, (to be clear, thats less than 4 cents) and that is from Consumer Reports.

Also, the best time to plug in a Volt is at night when rates are lowest and you are probably sleeping.

You do not need to plug in the battery at all. You can drive on gas all the time if you want but then it is only about 35MPG (still, better than your Corolla). Most people drive less than 40 miles a day so if they plug in every night they get the benefit of less expensive transportation. By less expensive, my MPGe after a year of driving a Volt is 136MPGe.

Dennis Reiley

You can’t trust non-technical writers to get a technical subject correct. That’s why you have technical magazines for technical subjects.

The only way a newspaper or network can get a technical subject correct is by interviewing a specialist on the subject – preferably more than one.

And only an idiot would take a hybrid on a cross country trip. Electric vehicles, including hybrids, were designed to be used as commuter vehicles – not for long distance.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Or you can go cross country in a Wheel Chair, my friend did it.!!

Bob Big Wheels…

Anonymous

Does anyone have cost of insurance, ad valorem and license fees associated with the Volt?
Also, what is the total cost of the car loan of a $40,000 vs. $15,000 vehicle…?

http://profile.yahoo.com/MI43E2GTTCUUVLQ366OZEU7NKY david l

this is all about bailout money. bs.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

No it’s not..!!

It’s about dealing with IDIOTS..!!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Why should Americans that don’t want this car subsidize other people’s purchases, particularly those in the top 3% of incomes?

JOEL GOODMAN

NO MATTER THE NUMBERS, THIS PIECE OF MANURE MASQUERADING AS AN AUTOMOBILE IS A JOKE-TOTAL, ABSOLUTE AND COMPLETE. 40 GRAND AND IT GOES ONLY ON A GAS ENGINE MORE THAN 25 MILES? GIMME A BREAK. BEING A CONSERVATIONIST AND ENVIRONMENTALLY CONSCIOUS IS ONE THING, BUT THIS IS FOR MORONS WITH MONEY AND NO BRAINS. WHERE IN THE HECK ARE YOU GOING IN 25 MILES? PLEASE SEND THIS BACK TO OBAMA AND THE AUTO WORKERS UNION FOR A RETHINK. GOVERNMENT MOTORS WILL NEED ANOTHER BIG BAILOUT WITH THIS KIND OF PRODUCT.

Jason Cullinane

The Volt goes roughly 35 miles on the battery charge, then the gasoline motor turns on and you drive it as you would a traditional car. You can watch the video and see the switch on the dashboard screen in the tunnel (where he then continues driving and has not “broken down”).

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Two points here…

1.Learn to use the caps-lock key properly…

2. See a Doctor…

Your Welcome..!!

Anonymous

GM still owes the taxpayers 27 billion.

They owe the bondholders far more than that.

The average Dolt buyer makes $170,000. Why are the rest of us subsidizing them?

They were gonna name it the Biden, but decided on Dolt.

Waltzin Matilda

Jason Cullinane

You can see clearly in the video that Mr. Bolling has the car in D and not L so he is deliberately not using the automatic regenerative braking that recaptures kinetic energy and recharges the battery as you drive.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

I have read all
the posts here….At some point in
time….there will be no more Fossil Fuel.For those on the Far
Conservative Right, you can thumb a ride from the

Solar Charged
Electric Cars driven by those with a brain as they pass you
by.

With your thumbs out, you can
chant “Drill Baby Drill”..!!!!!

Anonymous

Are you a troll for GM? You sure act like it.

Anonymous

Are you a troll for GM? You sure act like it.

Anonymous

Are you a troll for GM? You sure act like it.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Are you a troll for GM?

No….. are you…!!!

Are you a troll for the idiots…!!!
You sure act like it…!!

Might help to remove head from SODbuster1

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Are you a troll for GM?

No….. are you…!!!

Are you a troll for the idiots…!!!
You sure act like it…!!

Might help to remove head from SODbuster1

Anonymous

I would guess they call you “Dick” for short!

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Nope That’s Big Dick to you..!!

I don’t care who makes Electric Cars as long as we make them.

I’m tired of breathing polluted air because you and people like you think I should.

If you want to smoke the exhaust pipe on your car then go into your garage, close the door and start the engine.

You don’t have a right to make me breath your crap car pollution, no more then a smoker has the right to smoke in a building I’m in.

You have a RIGHT to do the RIGHT THING.

You do not have a right to do the wrong thing to me
or
to the 6 Billion people on this plant
or
to all the other life on this planet.

You all call yourselves the Conservative Right….

Please DO show me the Right anything..!!

Maybe you think polluting the Air we all breath every moment is the Right Thing to do….
I don’t..!!

There is enough Energy from the Sun to power the entire Galaxy.
The Sun has powered the Galaxy for Billions of years.

And your trying to convince me that it’s not a good idea to charge an electric car with the Energy from the Sun.

And your reason is why….!!!

Let me see you Solar Charge your Fossil Fuel Engine dude..!!

As far as I’m concerned EV’s are not an option up for debate or vote.

Simply it’s the Right Thing to do…..period.

And No IDIOT on FNC is going to change that FACT..!!

Least of all The Five “A_ _” Wipes on that program.

Get it yet..!!

Anonymous

Gee “Dick”! I asked a simple question to try and determine why you think you have a right to hassle everyone on this discussion board that doesn’t agree with your line of thinking. All you had to do is answer a simple yes or no. Now you insinuate that people who don’t agree with you should be dead!? The road to the Nazi Holocaust was lined with people like you waving flags of nationalism and convinced that their opinion was the only correct one. And of course you have to show everyone how pompous you are, by resorting to name- calling, again. You’re right, though, I do think of you as “Big Dick”.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Now you insinuate that people who don’t agree with you should be dead!?

Yea where insinuate that, nowhere.
Now I’m a Nazi.

Of course we all should jump aboard your clown wagon and pollut

Anonymous

I’m tired of breathing polluted air because you and people like you think I should.
If you want to smoke the exhaust pipe on your car then go into your garage, close the door and start the engine.<

Your words- all thru your last post you insinuate that the only rights that count- are yours. People that disagree, you wish were dead. Nut jobs like you scare me.
Then you accuse me of favoring pollution, when I have not said one word about this subject. You scream about YOUR rights, but are MORE than willing to run over the rights of others, including those on this dicussion board who may have different opinions. But then, you're a "Big Dick", aren't you??!

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Let’s see you started off with TROLL…!!

And of course you have to show everyone how pompous you are, by resorting to name- calling, again.

Now it’s Nazi

Right….I got it..!!

Anonymous

I ASKED if you were a troll- and I did not call you a Nazi. Read it again. You have ADD? I know you are incapable of seeing another viewpoint.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

BTW What name did I call you…I can’t seem to find it..!!

Anonymous

>And No IDIOT on FNC is going to change that FACT..!!
Least of all The Five “A_ _” Wipes on that program.<
I didn't say you called me a name- I said you resorted to name- calling- it's what you do to others when they disagree with you or you develope some intense dislike for them, I guess.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

I didn’t say you called me a name- I said you resorted to name- calling-

Oh…OK….sorry…!!
Not name calling, just labeled them
correctly so we’re all on the same code page.

How’s Toilet Tissue work for you..!!??

Same thing..!

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Gee “Dick”! I asked a simple question to try and determine why you think
you have a right to hassle everyone on this discussion board that
doesn’t agree with your line of thinking.

I wasn’t hassling, just making fun of, hopefully made a few laugh

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Now you insinuate that people who don’t agree with you should be dead!?

Not dead, a coma would be fine..!!
Makes it easier to get my point across.!!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

So by my protesting that I should pay with my taxes for someone else to drive an electric car I’m a Luddite?

You do realize that we have 50-100 years of fossil fuel? As the supply diminishes the cost will go up, and rational people will make rational decisions. Gas is higher then electric makes more sense, or battery technology is cheaper and/or better. More efficient motors, cheaper electricity, etc.

The free market will do a much better job than government.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

I have read all
the posts here….At some point in
time….there will be no more Fossil Fuel.For those on the Far
Conservative Right, you can thumb a ride from the

Solar Charged
Electric Cars driven by those with a brain as they pass you
by.

With your thumbs out, you can
chant “Drill Baby Drill”..!!!!!

Anonymous

Why can`t people see the real picture here? Do you really think that the kilowat hour figure was an honest mistake? No,anything fox (small f ) can say to discredit the president and the green movement it will say. Republican backed fox, (small f) rush, (small r ) and most right wing talk show hosts know that no matter what they say some people will believe it. The Volt article was just a small part of their campaign. It has been shown that people who watch fox ( small f ) are less informed about the truth than people who watch other news sources. Anyone know if fox ( small f ) ran a correction? I think they should

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Did you read the article? The chain letter made that mistake not Fox News.

Anonymous

Well Richard- this has been fun, but I have to get going. For the record- I’m a conservative. Do I watch FNC? Almost never. I don’t need those people to tell me how to think. Solar Energy- I think it’s great. Chevy Volt? I think GM took a big risk, and I hope the car gets better and better. Just like the Model T is a crude replica of what we drive today, I hope someday we look back at the Chevy Volt the same way. But our nation has been petrol based for so long, and crude oil has been so cheap over the years, it will take time to make that transition. Right now, with the technology we have, I think it will take a combination of things to help make that change. You are passionate about what you believe, and that’s good, but you can’t just force your ideals and beliefs on others- I don’t want to live in that kind of society. It takes leadership, and that’s where I believe our nation is lacking. We need men and women who will lead, not sell out to the highest coporate bidder. The people and corporations who are running this country do it for the sole purpose of the almighty dollar- not because it’s good for our nation or the enviroment. And that is the problem, IMHO.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Now your talking….
If you carefully read my post, I wasn’t forcing anything on anyone.
I just don’t like being force to breath carbon if I don’t have to.

The fact is…nobody has to..!!

Do I think the Volt is the greatest thing since mom’s apple pie…NO.!!

But it is a good start, a start long over due, like a 100 years over due.

“We need men and women who will lead, not sell out to the highest corporate bidder.”

We the people need to take back the Government…period.

Take it back from the idiots and criminals.

We can start by put some in jail, where they belong…!!

Have a good one pal..!!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

So you don’t want politicians to sell out the highest corporate bidder. But you want the government to bail out big corporations and big unions, like GM and UAW?

What corporation has ripped you off? Where you were forced to buy something? Or forced to work at a job you didn’t like? And if they did what did you do about it?

We will never “take back the government”, Madison understood this, that’s why the Constitution establishes limited government. There is corruption because there are so much government interference that creates opportunities for corruption.

Anonymous

Well Richard- this has been fun, but I have to get going. For the record- I’m a conservative. Do I watch FNC? Almost never. I don’t need those people to tell me how to think. Solar Energy- I think it’s great. Chevy Volt? I think GM took a big risk, and I hope the car gets better and better. Just like the Model T is a crude replica of what we drive today, I hope someday we look back at the Chevy Volt the same way. But our nation has been petrol based for so long, and crude oil has been so cheap over the years, it will take time to make that transition. Right now, with the technology we have, I think it will take a combination of things to help make that change. You are passionate about what you believe, and that’s good, but you can’t just force your ideals and beliefs on others- I don’t want to live in that kind of society. It takes leadership, and that’s where I believe our nation is lacking. We need men and women who will lead, not sell out to the highest coporate bidder. The people and corporations who are running this country do it for the sole purpose of the almighty dollar- not because it’s good for our nation or the enviroment. And that is the problem, IMHO.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Jack-Mitchell/1448325905 Jack Mitchell

This is a very misleading article. It validates itself by quotes from Snopes. Bill Howard is quite misleading in his statement that electricity is 12.7 cents per kilowatt hour. Yes, that is close to the national average, but no one would use a Volt in rural America where electricity is cheap. New York City it is 27.3 cents, Connecticut it is 18.68, Massachusetts it’s 16.86. Except it The Volt is a dog forced on us by politicans not automobile designers. Please, Mr. Howard tell the truth if you’re a real journalist.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

This is a very misleading article.

I had that same sinking feeling when I discovered FNC was involve.

Facts Not Comprehended

Anonymous

Where do you buy electricity for $0.127 per kwH? We live in California and that is the cost of “baseline” electricity. Owning an electric car means that it’s electrical usage gets costed at the rate of your last kwH, which is about $0.40 for our average usage level. Even if you do not run a dryer or an oven, let alone an air conditioner, about the cheapest you will pay is $0.25 per kwH. At $0.40, the 25 mile “fill-up” of 13.4 kWH will cost $5.36. Cars the size of the volt typically get 35 miles per gallon or more in urban driving (more on the highway). Our gasoline currently costs about $4.20 per gallon. So the cost per mile of the gasoline car is $0.17, versus $0.21 for the Volt.

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Well there ya go…the latest News from Cali Fornia as Arnold would say.

Now where did I put that grain of salt..!!

http://twitter.com/electroman00 Richard H

Sorry…I didn’t answer your question….
Where do you buy electricity for $0.127 per kwH?

You could drive your Hummer to one of the other 49 states where electric rates are approximately 0.12-0.16 per KwH.

Great idea. I am all for sending as many Californians as choose to leave to some other state. Maybe they can do all the fine things for other states as they have accomplished here. Can they take some of our debt and unfunded liabilities with them? I would be really delighted if other states would also take our entire legislature and Governor Brown while they are at it. How about a package deal where we throw in a bunch of our whacko laws, regulations, and taxes, too?

Anonymous

Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that
counts can be counted

http://twitter.com/LVMan777 Robert Harrington

In my area the local utility gives you a discount for charging your EV.( and the whole house)

Winter night 5 cents a Kilowatt hour (13kw x 5 cents = 65 cents)

So I can drive 35 miles ( all the way out of town and back) for 65 cents…..

Sounds good to me..

Oh by the way; Fox News is full of it. They can’t add subtract multiply or divide

and Kimberly Guilfoyle, that Sarah Palin like big mouth no brain twit who “pipe(d) up and sa(id), “I’d rather roller skate backwards in the Lincoln Tunnel than drive that thing and break down,” proved my point. She NEVER knows what she is talking about.

Fair and Balanced? No Way! “Right Wing Nut Reality Challenged”

Anonymous

I would like to add to all the other misinformation I have been reading. Number one, the $7,500 tax credit was not created for GM. If you remember, all the people who bought the over priced Prius got this same credit, and they are not even an American company. Each manufacturer was assigned a certain number of these tax credits and GM, knowing they were developing this car, saved theirs for when it hit the market.

Also, for those that think this car was developed to please Obama or our government, remember that when GM went to Washington to ask for governmental loans they drove there in a Volt. They may be good but I don’t think any car gets developed overnight.

Maybe many of you should try driving a Volt before making your opinion. Regardless of where it gets its power it would impress almost anyone with its drivablity, quietness and handling. If you buy a Leaf, you really need two cars to cover what the Volt can do all by itself. One car for the cheap, electric powered commute to and from work, and a second car for the 40 MPG weekend road trip. Can you really buy a Leaf and a second car for less than the Volt?

Finally, all of the tests indicate that because GM only uses the sweet middle 60% of the Volt battery it should outlast the usefulness of the car. Even if they are wrong, it is backed by an 8 year non-prorated battery warranty. If you were really worried about this, why not take advantage of the great 3 year lease offer where you can drive the Volt with no money down and 15,000 miles per year for only $450 per mo. This is less than most $28,000 vehicles cost to lease that use far more in gas per year than what the Volt will ever cost you to operate on electricity and gas.

I could go on and on, but most of the mathmatiical errors have already been pointed out. Also, for those of you that say a Leaf gets 100m miles per charge, please find me someone that can attest to that. Also, how far can you go in a Leaf when it is 15 degrees F or 95 degrees F? How do you to work in the morning in your Leaf when the electric went out last night? Oh, and “will you run over to school and pick up Johnny after work tonight”? Oh, you can’t because your Leaf doesn’t have enough charge left to get him and still get home. Hmm, all those things would not be a problem if you only had the Volt!

That doesn’t include tax breaks either. The point is that the technology isn’t there yet to be cost effective. Hybrids and diesels are just starting to make sense, and hybrids are sometimes subsidized.

http://www.swift2.blogspot.com Swift2

I’m looking at this story AFTER the election, and it’s pretty clear a conservative should never be trusted with statistics.

Anonymous

We can all evaluate electric charges in our own area to be different that the Fox News Report. But until you actually evaluate the electric charge Eric Bolling pays, his cost is still as reported. The fact remains that the Chevy VOLT costs $47,000 and the Chevy Malibu better appointed than the Volt costs $26,000. Throw into the mix that the TAXPAYER ponies up $7500 for someone to purchase the Volt still makes this vehicle cost $40,000. Does the commuting market want such an espensive auto? NO!

Government interference in the marketplace is not the proper role of government. Goverment giving money to assist in the purchase of a government and invironmentalist approved vehical is not the role of government. Only Democrats come up with such nonsenes!

The economy of any vehicle is NOT JUST the fuel economy. Vehicle costs for owning a vehical include the Monthly Payment, the fuel used, repairs, insurance, and registrations. These add up and can be calculated on a per mile use.

I compare my 1997 Ford Explorer that gets 17 MPG on freeway driving to the Volt at 32MPG, when looking at the total cost of operation, including monthly payments, my Ford Explorer costs annually $4,473 and the Volt would cost $7,690. That is it would cost me annually an additional $3,216 to own the Volt. The Volt takes $268 per month EXTRA from my income to own it.

Even on milage, driving 12,000 miles per year the old 1997 Ford Explorer costs 37 cents per mile to drive and the Volt costs 64 cents per mile to drive.

So, which is less expensive? It certainly is not the VOLT.

Engineering is fun, but for acceptance in the marketplace, TOTAL COSTS drives who buys.

Thanks for Reading
RD Skidmore, Prof.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

Right on!

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

Of course, I like your second paragraph best. I don’t care if the Volt was free for everyone and ran on a perpetual motion engine fueled by rainbows and unicorn tears for $0.00 per mile. It’s still not the government’s role to subsidize, manipulate, and bail out!

ColoMY2013VOLT

Yes, democrats come up with only nonsense. I cannot stand liberals, But, You should drive a Volt for a week and see for yourself. Your numbers are WAY off!!!!

http://profile.yahoo.com/GLSH2CLQ2UI6WVN43PFBTMY5PQ Richard Snow

When you are running on electricity from a charger, it’s a pretty good chance you are burning coal. Factor in the 40% total efficiency of generation and power transmission and things don’t look so rosy.

Edward Ang

It takes 3-8 kwh (kilo-watt-hour) of electricity to produce a gallon of gasoline. An electric car could go 12-32 miles on the same amount of electricity. So, assuming the gasoline power car begin replaced gets 12-32 mpg (a pretty good assumption), there is no net increase in electricity used.

Anonymous

Here’s hoping that electrics or variants like the Volt become as big a fad as SUVs and monster trucks did, may they rust in peace.

danwat1234

So who did that math? Who wrote that chain email. It is disgusting.

The fuzzy math where he claims that a KWH of electricity is $1.16 and so it costs something over $20 to fill up the Volt’s battery!! The national average is more like $0.12 cents per KWH. This $1.16 crap has been floating around the internet the past few weeks.

http://profile.yahoo.com/FZQC26X5ROI4AXPQ5YZVHRBMYQ Your Mom

You can bash Fox News all you want, but the fact remains that the Volt is a piece of garbage, which is why IT’S NOT SELLING. Why do you think GM pulled the plug and stopped production? Because it was such a big hit, right? Yeah.
Electric cars are a pipe dream, and will never take off. Nobody wants to be told that they can only drive x-number of miles before they have to sit and twiddle their thumbs for 8 or 10 hours while their batteries charge. Oh, and all the while, hoping and praying that they won’t explode or burst into flames while driving.
Nobody ENJOYS or WANTS to pay $75 to fill up their gas tanks every week, but for the next 25-30 years (at least), that’s going to be REALITY. Wind isn’t going to power your car. Algae isn’t going to power your car. Hope and change isn’t going to power your car. GASOLINE WILL POWER YOUR CAR.

The only realistic alternative that has a chance of replacing gasoline is hydrogen, but an entire infrastructure has to be built up for it, and the technology has to be perfected. That will take 25 years, at a minimum. In the meantime, if you want to pay retarded amounts of money for some electric go-kart masquerading as a car, that’s your right. But don’t expect the sane majority of people to be sold on this utter idiocy.

danwat1234

-People don’t have to twiddle their thumbs for 8-10 hours. The volt will charge in 4 hours from being completely drained to full, and that’s with Level 2 charging. I’m sure the Volt will eventually be offered level 3 charging (400 or so volts) and can recharge in less than a half hour.
Besides, if want to go farther than the battery range, the engine will take you as far as you want.
-GM only temporarily stopped production, it will RESUME on April 23th this year.
-Electric cars like the Leaf can charge from 0-80% charge level in 26 minutes with level 3 chargers along the i-5 corridor and eventually more places will offer these high speed chargers.
Battery capacity will go way up in a few years thanks to nanowire Lithium Ion technology.
-Catching on FIRE? NO! That only happened after the Volt had a severe side impact crash and then they laid the Volt on it’s back for 3 weeks! Then and only then sparks started happening thanks to fouled coolant lines.
Since then, GM has reinforced that area of the car and even without these modifications this sort of thing would never happen in the real world because it says right in the manual to disconnect the main battery and drain it in the event of a major crash. Do you really think the pack is more volatile than a tank of gas?

Hydrogen is a pipe dream, you will still support the oil companies if you go with Hydrogen and it takes a ton of power (inefficient) to extract Hydrogen from water so that you can store it in a tank at the gas station.

Electric cars don’t support the oil companies, they can get energy from a variety of sources.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Keep in mind the quicker the recharge, the shorter the battery life will be.

After 8 years you may have a worthless car on your hands.

danwat1234

That’s true. I’m sure in the warranty they specify when and how often you can use Level 3 charging without damaging the battery pack (not on hot days most likely). But then again I haven’t downloaded the manual yet to see. Level 2 charging isn’t hard on the pack but L3 is for sure. It’s like charging a NiMH AA battery using those super fast 15 minute chargers you can buy. It totally bakes the battery.

At least with the electric car the battery has a decent cooling system.

http://profile.yahoo.com/FF5CCWFF75ZEOXNNVMOVVKFSDE KickinCanada

I own a Volt in one of the coldest climates in North America and its a pretty cool car. I’m not an environmentalist (previous ride was a Ford Expedition) but it’s not as expensive as one would think. With incentives and average person saving $2000 a year in gas and maintenance (oil changes once every 2 years, brakes last 100K minimum) over 5 years that’s lots of $$$ towards the purchase (I am actually saving more than $3000 per year given I was driving the expedition before). So about $25-30K for a really advanced car is actually in line with the average cost of a new car these days. And it isn’t a Cruze as many like to compare – really its more like a 3 series bmw! And as for incentives – kill any for big oil and gas, mortgage deductions etc and then we can talk.
Its range is pretty good – 45 miles in the spring / summer / fall on battery – more if you use gas. If you charge at work or in between drives you can actually go 70-100 miles per day on electric – basically you get to give the oil companies the middle finger when you drive by the gas station. Weird to spend more on car washes than gas. And my hydro bill has gone up about $30-40 a month. I also love the fact I am using a domestic source of fuel and not relying on sources of energy produced by hostile regimes.
One more thing – the battery will likely outlast the car as the battery and all electrical components of Volt, Leaf, etc are warrantied for 8 years.
Bottom line is the Volt is a great fun car with great service and support from GM. People really need to get out and test drive one. And it looks great to.
Ottawa, Canada

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

FYI, there are very, very few oil “subsidies”. There are some tax breaks like there are for many corporations. But the tax breaks and the few subsidies are designed to encourage certain behaviors like explore for oil in riskier areas that they wouldn’t otherwise do. Compared to their revenues they are all very small. And also oil companies only make about 5% and provide a lot of US jobs.

That being said, glad you are having a good experience with your car.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

You must live in northern Canada then where the temputures drop below zero degrees farenheit during the summer and there is ice on the ground year around. In that case a snowmobile or sled and dogs might be better suited for you.

Wow – GM is back now? Amazing what a company can accomplish with unlimited funds and the full faith and credit of the United States government…

Let’s stop kidding ourselves and get serious for a moment. If GM is “back,” it certainly isn’t on the anemic sales of their glorified golf cart. Or is that why they laid off 1200 folks recently to shelve the Volt assembly line?

The only people who buy these “beauties” earn nearly 200k a year. I understand Obama wants to up the subsidy to $10k to boost sales. But why not just give them away, since it’s “the right thing to do”? With the money given to Gov’t Motors, and at their rate of sale, the unit cost is nearly $275k.

As to the “savings” of driving the Volt, the enviro-nuts who support this government-subsidized vehicle are all too eager to defend their own gullibility. They always fail to mention that a similar compact sedan with an efficient gas engine could “save” them up to $20k at purchase.

After you come close to recovering the initial expense, you’re looking at $5 – $10k for new batteries to deal with. Whoops, looks like another few more years for those “savings” to finally materialize.

Can any of the tens of satisfied Volt owners tell me how well the A/C works during the summer, or the heater during winter, and how it affects their “green mileage”?

Is there a separate electrical system for these accessories, or do you need to pull over to turn up the volume on the radio? And what about night driving? Is your range limited by how long your headlights last?

Bottom line: if it makes you feel like you’re saving the planet, then please- go out and buy a Chevy Volt. Forget the fact that almost 50% of the electricity to recharge it comes from burning coal. Follow Al Gore’s example and…ok, follow Joe Biden’s example and…..well, follow Barack and Michelle’s example and…ok, so just who the hell actually buys these things?

danwat1234

They did not ‘shelve’ the volt assembly line. It will only be suspeneded until April 23rd. The Volt isn’t being cancelled.

The Volt is a golf cart? Have your driven one? They are very comfortable, they handle well, accelerate well and are quiet!

– ‘A similar compact sedan (Cruze?) could save them up to $20K at purchase.’ – Yeah the Cruze is a lot cheaper than the Volt, but the Cruze can only get 39MPG hwy with it’s automatic transmission, whereas the Volt can get over 80MPG equivalent.

The battery will last far beyond 100,000 miles. Why do you think companies like Hyundai is doing a full lifetime warranty on their Sonata Hybrid’s battery pack? Like 300,000 miles down the road, they can have it replaced and the old one recycled for free!
I guess that means that batteries last longer than you think!
I’m confident many other companies will follow soon.

‘How the AC works in the summer’ –> It uses an inverter, variable speed electric scroll type air conditioning compressor. It doesn’t pull more than a couple thousand watts at peak.
On the other hand, in the winter, the cabin heater is a resistive heater, so the battery drain is significant.
There is no shortage of peak energy that the battery pack can supply, you can have the heat cranked, the music blasting, you can be dry steering on pavement, windshield wipers on high and flooring it all at the same time without worrying about power output.

The headlight — the headlights use something less than 150 watts in total, plus a bit more for running lights. Do you really think that will affect a 16,000 watt hour battery pack? No.

Your bottom line fails to mention that more alternative energies are coming into the power grid all the time, and coal plants are getting cleaner all the time, and in some states most of the energy are from renewable sources already. Someone living there, it would make perfect sense to buy a Volt.
Furthermore, electric cars will drive Smart Grid; where electric cars can give back to the electrical grid during peak times of the day, lessening demand, and then charging at night to take advantage of lower electrical rates and when power plants have excess energy that isn’t being put to use.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

This so called free replacement of bad batteries isn’t actually free you always pay for it some where. I take it you haven’t ever been in a wreck with you tin can eather. Usually the car is totaled and the driver and passengers are killed because they crush when hit by a real car or truck. I have seen multipule collision where these electric or hybrid cars are hit by full sized trucks and every one in the electric or hybrid car is killed. Why don’t you got tell them that there car had a 5 star safety rating. The safety ratings are done at 35 mph and in glove the car being propelled in to a soiled object not a 55 mph collision with a full sized truck. Physics always wins over a five star safety rating. Is the higher chance of death really a good price to pay? And why should all tax payers have to pay for your por choice of a car. If it wasn’t for all the govormant help those cars would be much more expensive. And don’t forget where that electricty comes from, it dosnt just magically appear in the wall when you plug you car in.

danwat1234

Your facts are wrong. Often hybrid and almost always electric cars are heavier than regular cars because of the weight of the batteries, so the laws of physics are in favor of the electric car.

For instance the regular Prius is not a light weight car, it weighs about 3,000 pounds. The Prius V is more like 3,300 pounds. The Volt is closer to 3,800 pounds.Do some research. Gasoline doesn’t just magically appear at the gas station. It takes a lot of energy to convert crude oil into gasoline and the fuel used to transport the fuel to the station.Electric cars, even if powered by coal plants are a good step in the right direction, as any improvement in efficiency or emissions by the plant instantly effect the electric cars powered by it, and electric cars can make these coal plants for efficient by letting the cars use some of the energy from the battery packs during peak times of the day and charging at night when demand is low (Smart grid).

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Last time I checked you usually run with the headlights on along with the wipers and heater while driving in the rain so yes it will effect the battery life significantly. And don’t forget that you don’t actually use the full kwh capability of the battery thay are designed to shut off at a point as a safety feature for the battery. The batteries also have a life span of about 8 to 10 years. Oh and don’t forget about all the hazardous chemicals that are used in the batteries. Did you also know the the only place where they mine the metal used in the batteries is in China. Do your research next time.

danwat1234

You do some research next time. The Lithium ion batteries in the Volt are NON TOXIC. You can throw it in the trash at the end of it’s life if you want to without damaging the environment, although it would be far smarter to recycle it so it could be made into new stuff. GM will recycle those batteries for free if you ask them to.

NiMH batteries on the other hand are toxic, luckily it looks like the industry is slowly moving away from that chemistry.

How do you know the battery life of automotive grade batteries? We have to wait and see how long they last. GM warranties the Volt battery for 100K/8 years. They must last longer than that otherwise they would have a lot of warranty claims. Hyundai has a lifetime warranty on their Sonata hybrid battery pack now.
Yes your right it only uses part of the whole capacity of the battery to extend the life of the battery.Even if the Volt only used 10KWH out of it’s 16KWH battery to propel the vehicle before turning on it’s generator, that is 10,000 watts for one hour. Headlights= 120 wattsWipers = ~100 wattsThe heater will take the most, especially if it is a resistive type heater instead of a heatpump. They can take 3,000 watts if you crank it up and the heatpump type can take around 1,000 watts if cranked up.That has been and is an issue with electric cars, heating the cabin on cold days because it takes a lot of energy to heat the cabin. That’s why heated steering wheels and heated seats are good options. Only the heater will significantly effect the battery energy level. All those little electrical items don’t matter very much.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Ya they find out how long the parts last and make the warranty expire right before stuff starts breaking haven you noticed that. A car so how always seams to start having problems with in a year or two after the warranty expires.

BJ kellam

this guy is being totaly rediculous, he probably just got a lemon volt if he cant go 18 miles on battery, have him try another one and see if it works! I am a true chevy volt believer

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Just because you are a “true volt believer” doesnt make it a better car

Sports cars are often designed with only two seats, and very
occasionally three seats. The differing needs for passenger capacity and
their luggage has resulted in a large variety of body styles to suit
personal requirements such as the sedan/saloon, hatchback, station wagon/estate and Multi-Purpose Vehicle/Minivan.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CLR2LHIU6KUIFREHAPIOYJNIYM StanO360

Keep in mind The Five is not a news show, it’s a commentary show with each discussion just a minute or two long, so discussions and mistakes (comparing the Leaf to the Volt) are usually missed.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Has any one noticed ho inconsistent some of the information on electric and hybrid cars are. what i mean by that is you can get on a web site such as edmunds.com or other sites even government web sites about theses cars and on on page of the site it will tell you how awful the cars are and on another page of the same site it will completely contradict the other one. when you start posting information about these cars could you please post where you got it from. i will try to do the same.

Their motors ran at up to 600 revolutions per minute, and powered machine tools and a printing press.Due to the high cost of the zinc electrodes required by primary battery power, the motors were commercially unsuccessful and the Davenports went bankrupt.

Mike Root

Very few people understand this car. For most it’s a political pawn and they love to throw it about in a Obama hate session. So stupid. The math is not complicated. I was spending $300-400 a month on gas for my daily driving. Now I spend $30 in additional electricity charges instead. I shopped my Volt and got a fully loaded dealer demo for $33.9K. Then I got my $7500 tax credit putting the net cost of the car at $26.4K. That price is comparable to any other popular consumer car you want to compare it to.

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

“So stupid,” huh? The math may not be complicated in your individual circumstance, but here’s how I ["stupidly?"] understand the “uncomplicated math” you provided:

-As you know, your $7500 tax credit isn’t a tax deduction. It’s cash. From the government. Except the government has no way of getting money except to extract it from the taxpayers or borrow it (which the taxpayers will have to pay back), so you got your $7500 from the taxpayers. THAT’S PRETTY DARN POLITICAL.

-Add to that the fact that the Volt project, even GM itself, wouldn’t have survived unless the government had stepped in with it’s billions of [taxpayer] bailout money. Money that we are going to take a $20 billion loss on. THAT’S PRETTY DARN POLITICAL.

-You’re saving money on gas. Great, if the car’s range suits your needs. However, the range is quite a deterrent for a majority of car shoppers. This means that the previous two items (the Volt being produced at all and then incentivized with a tax credit) are the only thing keeping it around in the market. In other words, without government cronyism using taxpayer money to pick winners, this car would never have made it to market. THAT’S PRETTY DARN POLITICAL.

-And, of course, the POTUS and GM execs, armed with taxpayer dollars, stood on stage a few years ago and announced and lauded the forthcoming Volt. The Volt naysayers didn’t make this a political issue – GM and Obama did, despite your argument to the contrary.

Do you really think that if Ford came out with an electric car, completely independent of the government, and with enough attraction to the market that it sold well without a tax credit incentive, that any of us “Obama hate session people” would have ANYthing but good things to say about it? Think again.

ColoMY2013VOLT

I only have one question for all of you out there that are bashing the VOLT. Have you ever driven one??? They are INCREDIBLE! It is like driving a video game sports car. I am waiting for a 2013 with the increased EV range and other upgrades. The MSRP on the Volt I will buy is 41K. The dealers will come down 4K off of that because people still are in the dark about this incredible machine in most parts of the country. (Not in Cali. , they are starting to sell like hotcakes) This brings down the price to 37K. I happen to live in Colorful Colorado where we have an extra 6K tax break! This brings down the cost to 23.5K with the 7.5K fed break. This car is worth the full 40K!!! It is not a 20K econobox that all of you ignorants out there compare it to. But I do not care about all of these numbers one bit. I am buying a Volt so I do not give much of any more money to big oil .(Domestic or Imported) , and because they are a BLAST to drive>>>>(Just like my airplane is to fly ColoMY2013 VOLT

http://teddyotero.com/ drokkon

You’ve got to be kidding me. There are plenty of people “bashing the Volt” on here, and you reply to me? Please point out one place in any of my comments where I’ve “bashed” the Volt. Hardly. The only thing I ever bashed was cronyism, and then you reply to me, extolling the very tax credits and subsidies that I was decrying!

ColoMY2013VOLT

Sorry Drokkon. I was not bashing you. I thought I was replying to the thread and not you….My mistake

http://profile.yahoo.com/JOWIHBVIXLLPUV5U3HP5Z7QMFI Jeff

So I own a Volt, a Leaf and a Mercedes SUV. I bought the Leaf for my wife to gain access to the commuter lane. PG&E in California has time of use metering for electric cars. I pay 6 cents/kWhr. Charging the car cost be approx $1.50 and I go 80 miles or less than 2 cents/mile – you can’t beat it – plain and simple. Operating cost is a great deal. I do agree that the economics on the purchase is greatly aided by the $7500 federal credit. The way to own these cars is not to – you lease them. I pay $350/month for both cars. My commute is less than 40 miles/day – which the Volt has no issues with – seems to get about 45 miles/charge. I’m at over 2000 miles and have used NO GAS and spent $40 on electricity. I am saving about $200/month vs my prior car. Lease is $350 – so new car for $150/month and I have 15k miles/yr. I’d never buy these just yet since the battery technology will evolve and leasing is a great deal. Finally – I’ve driven $20k cars – the Volt and Leaf are fully loaded vehicles (NAV,DVD – every option) – I’d compare the ride to a BMW 3 series – not a Yaris……..

Finally – how Fox could have used over $1/kwhr is simple amazing. No ONE pays this much. Personally – I’d rather spend $$ on electricity and support Americans mining coal, drilling for natural gas, building Nuclear Power Plants than a bunch of hacks over in the Middle East. Even if the cost was equal – I’d go electric…….keep the money at home not overseas.

Wake up people – you are being snowed by Big Oil……

http://profile.yahoo.com/JOWIHBVIXLLPUV5U3HP5Z7QMFI Jeff

Just to be clear – $350/month lease for EACH car not both…..

http://www.facebook.com/mike.swift.9843 Mike Swift

Bolling is a complete Ass, the worst on Fox, he missed the point on everything.

RightWired

Fun Facts: Electric cars have the same range as they did 100 years ago. The only difference between now and then is that today if you’re Obama’s buddy bundler, you get a BIG FAT government grant for pretending you’re going to make something ‘green’.

Obama has given more tax break to green energy start ups in the past 3 years than all of “big oil” has gotten over the last 50.

danwat1234

Electric cars have the same range as they did 100 years ago? Haha! 260 miles at 60MPH with the Model S.

The batteries of 1912 were crappy lead acid batteries that weighed a tremendous amount and stored far, far less energy than today’s lithium ion batteries. They also wore out faster because lead acid batteries sulphate and the plates etch away over time.

In 1911, it looks like there was an electric car that could go 118 miles on a charge, but could only achieve this range when you go 20MPH, and the max speed of the vehicle was 30MPH (15HP Babcock Electric roadster). The Nissan Leaf can go farther than this at that speed.

RightWired

What did I say, libtard? I said range, not speed.

It would do you well to learn a little reading comprehension.

Even worse, Chevy is losing nearly $50,000 on each one sold.

No WONDER there’s not a real-world company which would try to build an electric vehicle without a fat grant from the commie pinko in chief.

danwat1234

Yea, so? The Model S can get 260 miles, which invalidates your fun fact of “Electric cars have the same range as they did 100 years ago” (but maybe you didn’t mean ALL electric cars of today) and also while travelling at higher rates of speed.

When the Prius first began in 1997/2001, Toyota was losing models on them as well so they wouldn’t be hugely expensive for consumers, so they’d catch on. Now look at them today, millions have been sold and they are making profit.

Also putting this technology on the road helps with R&D of future vehicles.

jabberwolf

Idiot Im conservative and even I know that the LiFePO4 batteries are now much MUCH more efficient than the old lead batteries and less in weight, shorter in charge time, and many MANY more cycles of charging.
You are an idiot left or right. Don’t ever claim to be right wing because you’re too fucking retarded.

Allara2

Bullshit

Allara2

Go back to Fox Not News troll.

Right Wired

Are you so intellectually dishonest that you ignore factual, historical information?

The Volt would get much farther than 35/38 miles if driven at 14, 17 or 20MPH as those old electric cars were rated for. The Volt has a 147HP electric motor and weighs 3700 pounds. The battery pack isn’t that energy dense because of the liquid cooling system and that the Volt only allows the pack to go between around 22-80% SOC or so. But I think you’d find the battery contributes a lot less to the weight of the Volt than those earlier cars that use lead acid technology.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Kyle-Keyes/100000697263625 Kyle Keyes

I’m a Volt owner. I’ll never buy another car unless it’s a Volt.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

You really like your junky cars don’t you

Bork

Why would the 7% owner of News Corp (Fox News parent company) the Saudi Prince, be bashing a car that uses less gasoline? (perhaps he is heavily invested in oil?)

Idiots cannot do math write blogs to show their retardation.
4 dollars of gasoline (approximately 1 gallon) will get you 55 miles at best.
4 dollars or electricity will get you 200+ miles.

4.00/200 = .02 cents per mile
4.00/55 = .072 cents per mile

Now STFU and get back to school. ( and don’t come back and say that gas isn’t 4.00 remember 55 is also an exaggeration for the Prius as well. And the volt can get as high as 220 miles per $4 of a charge. And YES I know it can only go up to 40 miles per charge but I’m doing an equal comparison of $$ spent !) . If you come back and not understand what I just said – leave your address and we’ll mail you your sign !!

Allara2

Screw Faux News. They are bought and paid for by the Koch Brothers. and most everything they spew is a lie. Incidentally, GM was NOT bailed out. This is a neotard talking point. They were loaned the money with interest and they have paid it back with interest. Quit the damn lies.

Right Wired

Are you so intellectually dishonest that you ignore factual, historical information?

This is interesting. I don’t know if that is the real charge, I am sure it is different with everyone. I hope they do end up being more efficient machines. I hope the guys at http://www.palmchevy.com/Service still service them too!

Gwolf

Fox are pathological liars. About this and just about everything else.
If they ever tell the truth, it’s usually by accident.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

And let me guess you get your information from Obama or CNN. I love how here is a video of the car from a full charge to dead in the middle of the road and he is a lier because some guy that you don’t know said that’s is wrong because he says he has one. You know why the government has to put a government rebate on them? Because they are such junk only ignorant people like you will buy them.the government has to put a rebate on them because they own stocks of GM and the only way to make those stocks actually gain value if for people to buy GM cars and if a car like the volt that doesn’t sale they have to back it to get ignorant government worshipers like you to buy them. Oh and the CEO of GM and Obama are buddies and Obama wouldn’t want his buddy to lose his pay check so Obama won’t be able to get money from him. There are significant better cars out there out that are better for the environment than these pile of junks the GM sales for about the same price and they are from business that don’t support illegal and unconstitutional Presidents and laws.

danwat1234

The CEO of GM is Mary Barra. Like it or not, electrification of drivetrains is how the trend will go. Hydrogen cars have an electric drivetrain as well.

ASSITED_SUICIDE

Oh ya I forgot CEO and owner are not the same thing but when the owner of GM and the owner of GE sit down on either side of the president for dinner there is something going on. Considering that those two companies seam to get the majority of government money that goes to junky cars and poor quality equipment

ASSITED_SUICIDE

There are better cars out there for cheaper just remember the millions of dollars of tax money goes to find GM meaning that just because the sticker price of the car is only 30 thousand dose not mean that is what It actually costs. You seam like you like supporting illegal activity and criminals in the government. And you believe the government I bet if Obama told you to give him all your money you would

ASSITED_SUICIDE

You like jumping on the fad wagon don’t you. Just because other people are doing it doesn’t make it right

Gwolf

What was that tirade of hysteria about just then. If this is how you organize your thoughts then your conclusions, while wrong, are at least understandable. I get my information about the Volt every morning when I drive it to work. I form my own opinions based on my experience and reputable sources of information. You should try it sometime. In the mean time I will think of you every time I pass by a gas station and chuckle.

ajhnson

How to identify a Liberal? Listen to them bash Fox News.

TeaBagObamaChin

Volt sucks Lead GM come on!! not follow

ajhnson

So basically the volt is a $40,000 plus golf cart. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cough LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

danwat1234

Uh no not really. A golf cart can’t reach 100MPH (or 120MPH+ with a software hack). 0-60 in ~7 seconds with a software hack to allow the engine to assist with acceleration in Hold mode. You can’t install a rear sway bar on a golf car, nor is a golf cart Top Safety Pick + rated by IIHS like the (2014+) Volt is

danwat1234

Uh no not really. A golf cart can’t reach 100MPH (or 120MPH+ with a software hack). 0-60 in ~7 seconds with a software hack to allow the engine to assist with acceleration in Hold mode. You can’t install a rear sway bar on a golf car, nor is a golf cart Top Safety Pick + rated by IIHS like the (2014+) Volt is.

BTW used Volts in good condition are under $20K now

Dave

It costs me three cents in electricity charges to get to work which is about 16 km and about 21 cents to get back because it’s uphill. Zero gas unless it is cold and it takes about five minutes of gas to heat up the battery or you can actually pre-start it on electric to avoid that. And this article is incorrect you get close to 500km in total distance with electric and gas combined…likely a distance people don’t usually travel often. That is about 310 miles. I love this car! Not sure I would buy a new one though get one with low mileage. So many misconceptions about this car!

Dave

And gas alone the average is 37 miles per gallon city and highway combined nothing to sneeze at…

danwat1234

The engine isn’t used to heat up the battery. The battery has it’s own electric heater. The engine comes on for ERDTT to help heat the cabin, which is retarded if the driver wants to leave the engine off and just use the heated seats.
There is a way to disable ERDTT, by replacing the climate control ambient air temperature sensor by the front grille with a fixed resistor.

Jeffrey Youngken

Love the five, but there very naive when it comes to automotive subjects. Volt owner 3 years. Love the car. This from a 45year car enthusiast.

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