13:54:48 RRSAgent has joined #sparql
13:54:48 logging to http://www.w3.org/2009/09/22-sparql-irc
13:54:57 Zakim, this will be sparql
13:54:57 ok, AxelPolleres; I see SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:55:15 AxelPolleres, you don't need to do rrsagent & zakim by hand in the future - you can just use "trackbot, start meeting"
13:56:56 Hello, I am Olivier Corby from INRIA Sophia Antipolis, new member of the WG
13:57:02 ah right, but I don't need to say it again now, do I?
13:57:21 Welcome Olivier!
13:57:50 hi OlivierCorby, good to have you
13:58:05 AxelPolleres, right, no need to repeat it now, though trackbot does do other things like date and stuff
13:58:08 SW_(SPARQL)10:00AM has now started
13:58:15 +AxelPolleres
13:58:25 SimonS has joined #sparql
13:58:43 zakim, dial ivan-voip
13:58:43 ok, ivan; the call is being made
13:58:44 +Ivan
13:58:50 + +49.238.aaaa
13:58:56 SteveH_ has joined #sparql
13:59:03 +Lee_Feigenbaum
13:59:11 zakim, Lee_Feigenbaum is me
13:59:11 +LeeF; got it
13:59:15 zakim, mute me please
13:59:15 LeeF should now be muted
13:59:29 bglimm has joined #SPARQL
13:59:34 Zakim, +33.492.387.871 is me
13:59:34 sorry, OlivierCorby, I do not recognize a party named '+33.492.387.871'
13:59:56 +kasei
14:00:05 zakim, who's on the phone?
14:00:14 +??P21
14:00:15 Chair: AxelPolleres
14:00:18 On the phone I see AxelPolleres, Ivan, +49.238.aaaa, LeeF (muted), kasei, ??P21
14:00:21 Zakim, ??P21 is [Garlik]
14:00:22 Zakim, mute me
14:00:26 Meeting: 22 Sep 2009
14:00:33 Zakim, [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM
14:00:34 +bglimm
14:00:36 +[Garlik]; got it
14:00:38 kasei should now be muted
14:00:41 Zakim, mute me
14:00:44 zakim, who is on the phone
14:00:50 +SteveH, LukeWM; got it
14:00:52 bglimm should now be muted
14:00:53 member:zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:54 +SimonS
14:00:56 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AxelPolleres
14:01:07 zakim, who is there?
14:01:10 I don't understand your question, ivan.
14:01:13 Zakim, please disconnect ericP
14:01:13 sorry, ericP, I do not see a party named 'ericP'
14:01:16 Zakim, please disconnect eric
14:01:18 sorry, ericP, I do not see a party named 'eric'
14:01:29 zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:29 On the phone I see AxelPolleres, Ivan, +49.238.aaaa, LeeF (muted), kasei (muted), [Garlik], bglimm (muted), SimonS
14:01:31 [Garlik] has SteveH, LukeWM
14:01:34 +EricP
14:01:52 Zakim is running with a lot of lag
14:02:22 it's the same number as Olivier, but without the country code.
14:02:25 I think Zakim is confused
14:02:52 the agenda says duration is 90 minutes, is this true?
14:02:56 Welcome Olivier
14:03:00 wouldn't be the first time
14:03:05 (that Zakim is confused)
14:03:05 Zakim, aaaa is OlivierCorby
14:03:05 +OlivierCorby; got it
14:03:09 SimonKJ has joined #sparql
14:03:19 AxelPolleres: welcome Oliver Corby to the group.
14:03:22 Scribenick: LukeWM
14:03:29 thanks LeeF
14:03:31 s/Oliver/Oliier
14:03:39 err
14:03:42 s/Oliver/Olivier
14:03:53 AxelPolleres: lets introduce Oliver Corby
14:04:01 s/Oliier/Olivier/
14:04:01 +SimonKJ
14:04:06 OliverCorby: gives introduction
14:04:27 +??P39
14:04:30 Zakim, ??P39 is me
14:04:30 +AlexPassant; got it
14:05:06 AxelPolleres: remember to rejoin the group
14:05:28 AxelPolleres: or ask your AC rep to do it. Will check this later.
14:05:47 ericP: email problems due to recharting & not complicated enough tooling.
14:05:54 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-09-15
14:05:58 q+ to ask once more for people to fill out http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F2
14:06:06 ack me
14:06:08 LeeF, you wanted to ask once more for people to fill out http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F2
14:06:46 zakim, mut eme
14:06:46 I don't understand 'mut eme', LeeF
14:06:48 PROPOSED to accept http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-09-15
14:06:49 zakim, mute me
14:06:49 LeeF should now be muted
14:07:01 LeeF: remember to fill in F2F2 attendance.
14:07:04 -> http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/wiki/F2F2 F2F wiki
14:07:11 RESOLVED to accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/meeting/2009-09-15
14:07:52 AxelPolleres: next scribe is bijan if he doesn't still have telephone difficulties.
14:08:10 yes
14:08:16 AxelPolleres: next scribe will be Chimezie if he is there.
14:08:28 AxelPolleres: Liasions...
14:08:37 topic: liaisons
14:08:38 Zakim, unmute me
14:08:38 bglimm should no longer be muted
14:08:54 q+ to mention RIF
14:08:55 congrats, OWL and OWLers!
14:08:58 bglimm: owl went to proposed recommendation today
14:09:08 Zakim, mute me
14:09:08 bglimm should now be muted
14:09:29 chimezie has joined #sparql
14:09:34 ericP: RIF is soliciting review from Xquery because of added functions and operators
14:10:05 +Chimezie_Ogbuji
14:10:19 ericP: we might end up needing to work with RIF
14:10:35 ericP: because of collisions between our functions and operators. Perhaps a common document.
14:10:39 chime, can you scribe next time?
14:10:50 sure
14:11:00 AxelPolleres: Actions...
14:11:01 in particular, RIF F&O deal with the same atoms that we have, XSD types + URIs
14:11:05 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/actions/open
14:11:10 (well, IRIs in our specs)
14:11:17 topic: actions
14:11:37 AxelPolleres: action for ericP to draft project expressions.
14:11:51 ericP: that's done, but perhaps someone wants something more, otherwise, lets remove it.
14:12:07 AxelPolleres: can we just close it?
14:12:18 ericP: yes
14:12:35 AxelPolleres: investigating issue 33 & creating trac links for update issues
14:12:46 AxelPolleres: for Lee, is that done?
14:12:47 Lee?
14:12:54 +Dan_Burnett
14:13:12 Zakim, Dan_Burnett is really Orri
14:13:12 +Orri; got it
14:13:56 AxelPolleres: chime, update on Aggregates issue.
14:14:18 chimezie: there was something about groups, but I don't think this is part of the action.
14:14:38 chimezie: leave the action open and I'll investigate.
14:14:52 AxelPolleres: leaves an action for himself open.
14:14:56 ack me
14:15:08 AxelPolleres: synchronising errata with Andy?
14:15:16 LeeF: can't close that yet.
14:15:23 zakim, mute me
14:15:23 LeeF should now be muted
14:15:29 LeeF: I'll go through and close the ones that need to be.
14:16:00 AxelPolleres: look into xml spec for SPARQL query with Andy - action on ericP.
14:16:21 ericP: ported SPARQL 1.1 to xml spec & update document to xml spec.
14:16:33 ericP: I don't know if Andy is using it.
14:16:42 q+ to give mailing list heads up
14:16:54 q+ re xmlspec
14:16:55 ericP: there's no point in leaving this action open.
14:17:21 +Prateek
14:17:24 SimonS: a comment on XML spec.
14:17:36 SimonS: can we have our own copy.
14:17:38 Prateek has joined #sparql
14:18:15 ericP: we're free to copy it, but we ought to use an existing one to ensure minimum differences.
14:18:41 SimonS: we have marked it up with a special class.
14:18:54 ericP: we can just tweak the XSLT to make it all visible.
14:19:01 q?
14:19:08 ack ericP
14:19:08 ericP, you wanted to mention RIF
14:19:11 ack me
14:19:12 LeeF, you wanted to give mailing list heads up
14:19:25 q-
14:19:55 LeeF: there have been some hiccups with our mailing lists, and web archives haven't caught up.
14:20:21 LeeF: we're working on it, and will keep you up to date.
14:20:47 LeeF: w3c is being marked as spam by spamcop
14:20:50 zakim, mute me
14:20:50 LeeF should now be muted
14:20:52 ack me
14:21:02 AxelPolleres: will it be fixed?
14:21:13 zakim, mute me
14:21:13 LeeF should now be muted
14:21:15 ericP: it's fixed for now but might recur.
14:21:50 s/ericP: it's fixed for now but might recur./LeeF: it's fixed for now but might recur./
14:21:58 topic: FPWD progress
14:22:06 AxelPolleres: lets talk about where we are with the FPWD
14:22:29 1st of September?
14:22:44 AxelPolleres: we probably won't keep to end of september, but we should be as close as possible. I suggest the following schedule...
14:22:50 bglimm, end of sept.
14:22:54 ok
14:22:56 Note: mailing list archives at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2009JulSep/ are now up to date
14:22:58 so follow along there!
14:23:10 AxelPolleres: first internal draft next week
14:23:16 AxelPolleres: choose reviewers today
14:23:23 q?
14:23:35 AxelPolleres: decide to publish on October 13th
14:24:02 AxelPolleres: lets pick the reviewers when we go through the documents.
14:24:24 AxelPolleres: how are we with respect to schedule, any issues?
14:24:29 ack me
14:24:35 AxelPolleres: status of Sparql Query document?
14:24:51 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/query-1.1/
14:25:00 LeeF: can editors paste the links of the documents before discussing them.
14:25:55 SteveH: Aggregate functions, subqueries, negation, project expressions
14:26:13 SteveH: negation, project expressions 80 -90% complete.
14:26:41 SteveH: requires more work on Aggregate functions and subqueries, but probably OK for review.
14:27:09 SteveH: Aggregate functions and project expressions aren't complete enough yet.
14:27:33 I would like to review it
14:27:39 AxelPolleres: there will be something to review next week?
14:27:45 at least 2 :)
14:27:53 SteveH: yes
14:27:57 I'd like to review all of them, actually
14:28:05 Yes.
14:28:15 but would love 2 in addition to me ;)
14:28:25 Reviewers for query: birte, Lee
14:28:28 q+
14:28:28 AxelPolleres: bglimm has volunteered, and LeeF for all of them.
14:29:10 +1 to ivan
14:29:11 ivan: we should make it clear that we intend to merge this content with the old document.
14:29:13 ivan++ sounds like it makes sense in the status of the document
14:29:28 AxelPolleres: nobody disagrees
14:29:48 ACTION: Steve to make a comment making it clear that we intend to merge this content with the old document.
14:29:48 Created ACTION-92 - Make a comment making it clear that we intend to merge this content with the old document. [on Steve Harris - due 2009-09-29].
14:30:27 AxelPolleres: anything urgent regarding this document? Aggregates is on agenda for next time. Is anything else needed?
14:30:39 SteveH: we need to decide on the scope of the group expressions.
14:31:01 SteveH: the algebra only allows group by variables, rather than expressions.
14:31:04 ISSUE: Does GROUP BY allow variables or expressions, and does it allow mutiple expressions?
14:31:04 Created ISSUE-41 - Does GROUP BY allow variables or expressions, and does it allow mutiple expressions? ; please complete additional details at http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/track/issues/41/edit .
14:31:40 AxelPolleres: can you summarise it on the mailing list.
14:32:05 ivan, ok, I'll look at that
14:32:07 SteveH: I'll talk to Andy first and the issue is sufficient.
14:32:18 q+
14:32:22 Do we try and get a third reviewer?
14:32:22 q-
14:32:43 ACTION: Steve to talk with AndyS on ISSUE-41,
14:32:43 Created ACTION-93 - talk with AndyS on ISSUE-41, [on Steve Harris - due 2009-09-29].
14:33:00 AxelPolleres: another reviewer?
14:33:07 ack me
14:33:38 AxelPolleres: I'll be a reviewer, but next time I'll pick a victim.
14:33:47 Reviewers: Axel, Lee, Birte (in reverse order of volunteering)
14:34:09 LeeF: it's not so important now, just needs to be presentable. Near the end we will need more serious reviews.
14:34:26 http://www.w3.org/2009/sparql/docs/update-1.0/
14:34:30 q?
14:34:42 I see a lot of things that looks like XML errors
14:34:46 AxelPolleres: SimonS, can you summarize the update document.
14:35:01 SimonS: nearly done, good enough for review.
14:35:15 SimonS: ericP is on the XML issues, so they should be fixed soon.
14:36:00 ericP: we'll end up with a better stylesheet & dtd if you bear with me.
14:36:03 q+ to ask about grammar syntax
14:36:30 ericP: I want to work out the minimal diff between a live version of the stylesheet and ours first.
14:37:04 SimonS: we proposed to have a separate grammar document with an overlapping part but didn't have much response.
14:37:23 SimonS: Andy's response wasn't pro or con, so would like other opinions.
14:37:29 What does it mean to have an overlapping part?
14:37:43 bglimm, the common parts of the grammar
14:37:59 SimonS: there are some issues but they don't affect going to FPWD.
14:38:27 Hm, so you can identify what parts apply only to update and which parts apply also to standard SPARQL?
14:38:32 the person typing, pls mute!
14:38:33 SteveH: where did the html that does the grammar come from.
14:39:01 ericP: pasted grammar into Yakker??? and got that to produce the HTML.
14:39:08 q+
14:39:22 ack SteveH
14:39:22 SteveH, you wanted to ask about grammar syntax
14:39:31 SteveH: HTML in update document looks to be just vanilla HTML.
14:41:10 AxelPolleres: lets get back to this when we talk about the shared document.
14:41:36 ivan: it would be good if we are consistent in the order of the sections, and the update document is different.
14:41:51 ivan: e.g. it has the issues starting at the beginning. Perhaps we should reorder.
14:41:56 AxelPolleres: Simon, can it be done?
14:42:07 SimonS: yes, any preference?
14:42:27 ivan: we should be as close to Steve's document in structure.
14:42:48 SteveH: we had an item on the TODO list to reorder the original SPARQL document to make it easier to read.
14:43:09 ivan: my point is that update & query documents should follow the same structure.
14:43:13 SteveH: agreed.
14:43:31