This is a great thread and on the back of marathon training I am going to use priomarily #3 to get some speed.

Though can something be cleared up lease. Are these the only type of intervals to be run? What are the other types: reps, intervals, vo2max etc, I want to do do 1-02 quality sessions a week to stress these areas.

"I've been following Eddy's improvement over the last two years on this site, and it's been pretty dang solid. Sure the weekly mileage has been up and down, but over the long haul he's getting out the door and has turned himself into quite a runner. He's only now just figuring out his potential. Consistency in running is measured in years, not weeks. And over the last couple of years, Eddy's made great strides" Jeff 14 Jan 2009

Thanks for the bump. Read it from the very beginning and appreciate all the insight.

FWIW for this discussion - in prep for my marathon last month I did a period of weekly workouts in what was most closely related to #3 but with a 5:1 ratio of work to rest. I aimed for 10 minutes and longer duration and closer to 10k pace than interval pace. Was thinking more threshold-pace in the form of cruise intervals.

Now that the marathon is over I will try a few 5ks but not sure exactly how I will train for it. I appreciate this discussion and the notion that #2 and #1 is needed less than #3. I read this thread as to do a few of the shorter-faster works to sharpen in the few days or weeks prior to a 5k. Don't overdo the faster stuff, right?

Relating the OP to the workout I did this morning (and prior to reading this) my first set (800s) were closest to #2 and the 200s I finished up with were like what was described in #1. I found the 200s fun but not sure or how many is needed. Or bang for buck.

Now that the marathon is over I will try a few 5ks but not sure exactly how I will train for it. I appreciate this discussion and the notion that #2 and #1 is needed less than #3. I read this thread as to do a few of the shorter-faster works to sharpen in the few days or weeks prior to a 5k. Don't overdo the faster stuff, right?

I'd add #2 in starting more like 6 weeks out from your race, use #1 maybe 3-4 times starting 3-4 weeks out. IMHO nothing you do in the last two weeks before you race is going to add a lot for you on race day. I've always figured it takes the body about 2 week to fully adapt to a workout stimulus.

#1 is good for sharpening and induces very little fatigue. So you can do this up to 5 days out from your race or so to replace more demanding workouts (#2, #3) yet stay sharp.

"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills

dallasboycows

posted: 6/13/2011 at 8:45 PM

amazing info just wish it was formatted a little better. my vision staring at the screen hurts my head sometimes. lol.

dallasboycows

posted: 6/14/2011 at 4:48 PM

so if you are doing 400's what should your short interval rest be or your max hr bpm when you start next 400?

The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff

RA doesn't allow a person to delete a reply. Sometimes, someone will reply... but then change their mind for various reasons. Since a post can't be deleted, the person will empty it.

Pretend it says "There is nothing to see here. Move along."

dallasboycows

posted: 6/14/2011 at 8:31 PM

thanks srlopez. somehow I knew you would have a reply. if they were responding to,

amazing info just wish it was formatted a little better. my vision staring at the screen hurts my head sometimes. lol.

sorry that wasn't meant in any way to detract from the absolute incredible post. I just thought maybe someone might like to format it and send it to OP to repost. I got a little lost as it was all one paragraph. Sorry if my post came off negatively.

xor

posted: 6/14/2011 at 8:33 PM

Actually, based on the time stamp Mr Clay left in his post, I think he was originally responding to your NEXT post, but then said 'nah'.

I just thought maybe someone might like to format it and send it to OP to repost. I got a little lost as it was all one paragraph.

Or you could even do it for yourself. Copy it. Paste it into Word. Format it however you like. Print it off. Frame it.
Oh... what the hell... I'll do it for ya:

"The Purpose of Intervals"
by Mr Andy Spaniel.

There are three basic types of intervals, each with a purpose:

1) 200-400m intervals with long recoveries:

The purpose of this workout is to develop raw speed, working on strength, turnover, and fast-twitch muscle coordination. To achieve this, it is important to run each interval as fast as possible. Long recoveries are used to make sure you can run each interval near maximal pace. By definition, these intervals are limited to a max of 400m in length as you can't sustain speed longer than this. If you are prepping for a 800m or 1500/1600m race, you may do 600-800m in this workout though you will likely no longer be at maximal speed, but doing more or a race simulation (ie running 800m at 1500m race pace). These workouts are actually not very fatiguing, because if you accumulate residual fatigue between intervals you can't sustain the speed required in the workout. Of the three types, this will have the fewest number of intervals in a set.

2) 400m-1600m intervals with medium recoveries:

The purpose of this workout is to go into anaerobic debt on each interval and thereby stimulate building up your anaerobic capacity. This can also help somewhat with strength and speed tolerance. Moderate recoveries (say, 3+min for a 400m etc) are used to allow time to clear the lactic acid from your system and get HR back near baseline in order to be able to repeat the effort in the next interval. Comparing a 400m under this strategy to a 400m under #1 above, the time will be slower. This workout will actually feel much harder on you that #1 above, because you are working your anaerobic system so hard.

3) 400m-3000m intervals with short recoveries:

The purpose of this workout is to give your body an extended period of time at the very upper limits of your aerobic zone. This is probably also the best way to develop speed tolerance for 5K-10K paced races. This is the only one of the three types where your recovery will be shorter than your intervals. For example, I run 800m intervals in 2:22-2:30 avg depending on conditioning but only jog recover 90sec. Sets will also be longer than the other two types. (I do 8-10X800 or 6-8X1000 typically). The short recoveries bring you back just enough to be able to go out and do the next interval just as fast, or slightly faster than, the previous one (if you lose the ability to hit your target in the middle of the set, start slower the next time!). Using this strategy, you spend the whole workout at a very high aerobic capacity, with each interval inching you closer and closer to anaerobic. Due to the constant demand, this is probably the most demanding of the types. Say you run a 5K in 16:00. While races are always good for development, you will rely heavily on the anaerobic component in the end stages of the race so you expose your body to high-end aerobic effort less than that 17:00. However, say you do 8X800 in 2:30 avg with 90sec recoveries. That workout will take you 32 minutes to complete, and the only time you tap anaerobic is if you try to blow out the last interval fast. You've just gotten yourself nearly twice the amount of time at sustained high-end aerobic effort! Think what that does for your development and the ability to hold high-end aerobic paces in your next race.

When to use them?

The bulk of my speed workouts are #3. I will use #2 as a sharpening tool 2-3 times going into a key race under 10K. The only time I have used #1 post-college was when I was picked to run an 800m leg at the USATF Indoor Championships on a distance medley relay team. It only took 3 weeks of doing two #1 workouts per week to find speed I hadn't known I had since high school. #1 gives up its gains in just a few weeks. #2 takes a bit longer. I've successfully continued to gain by #3 for up to 4 months. But they should be ideally applied in the reverse order (#3 followed by #2 then #1 time-wise).

How far?

When using #3, I suggest those newer to intervals start out at 2 miles of total intervals and work their way up. A well-conditioned and relatively quick runner should be able to get in 4 miles of these intervals in a session (not counting recoveries). When I was peaking out I could get 5 miles of intervals in a workout but I would not recommend that unless you are winning races and runnin 90+ mpw. I have experimented with longer intervals, all the way up to 3200m. 3X3200m with 5min recovery is a great workout but the pace is getting too slow to consider it in any of the groupings above. The two last interval workouts I ran before my 10K PR were 4X2000m then 3X3000m workouts at 10K goal pace. I always dreamed of running 3X5000m with 7min recovery in 16:00 or faster but it never worked out.

The pain that hurts the worse is the imagined pain. One of the most difficult arts of racing is learning to ignore the imagined pain and just live with the present pain (which is always bearable.) - Jeff