Tribal law will keep their marriage safe from a 2004 Michigan constitutional amendment.

It's also safe from the federal Defense of Marriage Act which is in front of the U.S. Supreme Court and defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Not so. DoMA, Clause 2, which isn't in front of SCOTUS at the moment:

No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.

And what governmental office do you hold that your opinion about this matters to anyone except you?

sorry, I should have used the word "thought", not "held". I'm not saying everybody should apply the same standards I do... I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

I hadn't heard about the Elizabeth Warren controversy until this thread, but it has enlightened me that I'm entitled to check that box.

serial_crusher:I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?

1) Advertise that you've "Legalized" gay marriage on your reservation2) Do not inform the roundeyes that changing jurisdictions specifically for marriage purposes defeats marriages, or that DOMA makes the marriages a nullity3) Charge exorbitant "Western Sky" type fees4) Hi how are ya, Hi how are ya

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

Theaetetus:Tribal law will keep their marriage safe from a 2004 Michigan constitutional amendment.

It's also safe from the federal Defense of Marriage Act which is in front of the U.S. Supreme Court and defines marriage as a union between a man and a woman.

Not so. DoMA, Clause 2, which isn't in front of SCOTUS at the moment:

No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship.

That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.

While section 2 is not currently up for review by SCOTUS, assuming that the section that IS up for review is struck down, the next question that will likely arise will be the 'severability' of the law as a whole - i.e., can the other sections be rationally enforced when other portions of the law have been removed?

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

spentmiles:And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

Theaetetus:serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?

well if I marked it on my application forms and got accepted to school so I could fill a quota, that might have turned out badly for me if they found out I "lied". Ever see the movie Soul Man?

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...

Then you should be all for it. Every one of my stright friends say they stopped haveing sex 2 weeks after the marriage

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

xaratherus:While section 2 is not currently up for review by SCOTUS, assuming that the section that IS up for review is struck down, the next question that will likely arise will be the 'severability' of the law as a whole - i.e., can the other sections be rationally enforced when other portions of the law have been removed?

Highly unlikely that they will sever it if struck, but as I pointed out section 2 is clearly a violation and would in all likely hood kill the entire thing.

Reverend J:I'm pretty sure that one of the two reasons why it's in court right now.

For section 1 yes, not 2

mikaloyd:Ive heard of people who simply want to live their llives rather than being test cases for lawsuits.

1) Advertise that you've "Legalized" gay marriage on your reservation2) Do not inform the roundeyes that changing jurisdictions specifically for marriage purposes defeats marriages, or that DOMA makes the marriages a nullity3) Charge exorbitant "Western Sky" type fees4) Hi how are ya, Hi how are ya

It sounds like for gay Michiganders, getting married by an official of this tribe would be no more or less effective than getting married in Massachusetts--but a much shorter drive.

On the other hand, they may only be doing this for members of their tribe in the first place, in which case this will only apply to a very few people.

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

Reverend J:MyKingdomForYourHorse: Theaetetus: That clause of DoMA specifically means that their marriage may be ignored by other states, regardless of their tribal law.

Well hell, then they need to move to another state and then sue because thats a clear violation of the 14th

I'm pretty sure that one of the two reasons why it's in court right now.

/Can't wait to hear the arguments on that case

Unfortunately, it's not a violation of the 14th, and is also not in court over that clause. That clause is specifically about the Full Faith & Credit clause, which explicitly gives Congress the power to dictate what effect acts have in other states... In DoMA, they said "no effect", which is arguably within their power.

xaratherus:While section 2 is not currently up for review by SCOTUS, assuming that the section that IS up for review is struck down, the next question that will likely arise will be the 'severability' of the law as a whole - i.e., can the other sections be rationally enforced when other portions of the law have been removed?

Interestingly (and somewhat shockingly, so much so that I had to double check different sources), there's no severability clause in DoMA. I'd be somewhat surprised if SCOTUS reads one in, but, honestly, not terribly surprised, since it would give them an easy halfway position.

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

Excerpt: "...36% of women and 44% of men ever had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner "

Just to crunch the numbers: In 2008 (when the study was concluded) the United States' population was 305 million. As a high-end estimate, it's thought that roughly 3% of the population is homosexual, so that would be just over 9 million; figure that about 60% of those are male, that's 5 million gay men. Let's say that all of them have anal sex (which is inaccurate; not all gay men like anal).

Now based on the CDC study, that would be 44% of heterosexual (or possibly bisexual) men having anal sex - or just over 1.3 billion.

This is why it's so mind-mindbogglingly stupid to refer to anal sex as "gay sex", because based solely on numbers, there are far more heterosexuals having anal sex than there even are gay people.

Theaetetus:Interestingly (and somewhat shockingly, so much so that I had to double check different sources), there's no severability clause in DoMA. I'd be somewhat surprised if SCOTUS reads one in, but, honestly, not terribly surprised, since it would give them an easy halfway position.

I was shocked by that as well, but like you also think there a small sliver of chance they could read one in.

On the non violation of 14th by section 2 however, despite having that power as part of the full faith and credit clause the door swings both ways at a state level. MI for instance should easily hold validity of marriage lisc in states that have legalized it. Hence forth, its a clear violation of the 14th no more than when states passed laws banning interracial marriage during the civil rights era.

serial_crusher:Theaetetus: serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?

well if I marked it on my application forms and got accepted to school so I could fill a quota, that might have turned out badly for me if they found out I "lied".

Do you have any evidence that either of those happened in Warren's case? Because, apparently she was recruited and didn't apply, and "Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, [said] that the Democratic candidate's heritage didn't come up during the course of her hiring. "It simply played no role in the appointments process," he said. "It was not mentioned and I didn't mention it to the faculty.""

Remember way back when the first gay marriages happened? Remember how we were all toldthat it was the end of us all? Well...It has now been YEARS since then...The world is still turning..the sun is still shining, and crazy is still crazy

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...

First, source:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

Excerpt: "...36% of women and 44% of men ever had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner "

Just to crunch the numbers: In 2008 (when the study was concluded) the United States' population was 305 million. As a high-end estimate, it's thought that roughly 3% of the population is homosexual, so that would be just over 9 million; figure that about 60% of those are male, that's 5 million gay men. Let's say that all of them have anal sex (which is inaccurate; not all gay men like anal).

Now based on the CDC study, that would be 44% of heterosexual (or possibly bisexual) men having anal sex - or just over 1.3 billion.

This is why it's so mind-mindbogglingly stupid to refer to anal sex as "gay sex", because based solely on numbers, there are far more heterosexuals having anal sex than there even are gay people.

I tried heroin once. Does that make me a heroin user?

Any my ninth grade girlfriend let me put the tip in her shiat-puker once. Does that make me an active diaper wiper?

Everyone is entitled to try something once, to make a mistake. It becomes inexcusable when unsanitary behavior becomes compulsive to the point of redefining marriage so as to include the abhorrent in a beautiful custom. It's akin to repealing the "Employees must wash hands after using the bathroom" laws. You may like a healthy dose of shiat in your soup, but the majority of people aren't interested. Take your deviance back underground.

Is it really all that natural if it requires a quart of lube? Sounds more like a rape to me.

Theaetetus:serial_crusher: Theaetetus: serial_crusher: I just thought there were actual standards, and that I would get in trouble for violating them.

You really thought you'd "get in trouble" for attending a school club if you didn't have enough of the proper ancestry? Like you'd go to the Chinese-American Student Dance and someone would arrest you?

well if I marked it on my application forms and got accepted to school so I could fill a quota, that might have turned out badly for me if they found out I "lied".

Do you have any evidence that either of those happened in Warren's case? Because, apparently she was recruited and didn't apply, and "Charles Fried, the head of the Harvard appointing committee that recommended Warren for her position in 1995, [said] that the Democratic candidate's heritage didn't come up during the course of her hiring. "It simply played no role in the appointments process," he said. "It was not mentioned and I didn't mention it to the faculty.""

Well, I can't be sure every time I check a box, whether or not I'll benefit from it. Either it's always ok for me and Warren to check the box or it's always wrong for us to check the box. How other people use it is out of our control.

serial_crusher:Well, I can't be sure every time I check a box, whether or not I'll benefit from it. Either it's always ok for me and Warren to check the box or it's always wrong for us to check the box.

What box? She was recruited. She didn't fill out an application or check a box.

And for all the ladies out there who are pro-gay marriage: Do you let your boyfriend/husband shove it up your ass? Probably not. And why? Because it hurts, it's disgusting, and it's not something you'd ever stoop to doing. Well, that's pretty much the difference between regular marriage and gay marriage. The love is the same, except there's a lot more butt farking. Is that something you can really get behind? A bunch of dirty, shiat sticking?

You probably haven't thought that far...

First, source:

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

Excerpt: "...36% of women and 44% of men ever had anal sex with an opposite-sex partner "

Just to crunch the numbers: In 2008 (when the study was concluded) the United States' population was 305 million. As a high-end estimate, it's thought that roughly 3% of the population is homosexual, so that would be just over 9 million; figure that about 60% of those are male, that's 5 million gay men. Let's say that all of them have anal sex (which is inaccurate; not all gay men like anal).

Now based on the CDC study, that would be 44% of heterosexual (or possibly bisexual) men having anal sex - or just over 1.3 billion.

This is why it's so mind-mindbogglingly stupid to refer to anal sex as "gay sex", because based solely on numbers, there are far more heterosexuals having anal sex than there even are gay people.

I tried heroin once. Does that make me a heroin user?

Any my ninth grade girlfriend let me put the tip in her shiat-puker once. Does that make me an active diaper wiper?

Everyone is entitled to try something once, to make a mistake. It becomes inexcusable when unsanitary behavior becomes compulsive to the point of redefining marriage so as to include the abhorrent in a beautiful custom. It's akin to repealing the "Employees must wash hands after using the bathroom" laws. You may like a healthy dose ...

Feel free to read the source document. It goes on to state that somewhere around 10%+ of those heterosexual males engage in it on a 'regular basis'. Which is still more straight people having anal sex than there are even homosexuals that exist.

Anal sex - in fact, sex in general, since there's no legal requirement in the United States that a married couple even have sex - has absolutely nothing to do with gay marriage, but please, continue to pretend like it does. Your petulant cries of "waaaaaah hide your deviance" make me chuckle.

Like all (apparent) anti-gays, your vapid arguments of "yuck, I don't like it" are so easy to dismantle.

xaratherus:Feel free to read the source document. It goes on to state that somewhere around 10%+ of those heterosexual males engage in it on a 'regular basis'. Which is still more straight people having anal sex than there are even homosexuals that exist.

Given those statistics and population sizes, I wonder what the ratio of heterosexual men who engage in pegging to gay men is.