:::::{{Rebut}}Cheating may be undesirable to you, but for some people, it just wouldn't be GTA without cheats.

:::::{{Rebut}}Cheating may be undesirable to you, but for some people, it just wouldn't be GTA without cheats.

::::::{{rebut}} You can actually get more than one infernus by jacking it during brucie's race missions. Also, if you drive around in an infernus, other infernus's will be seen driving nearby, but it is rare.

::::::{{rebut}} You can actually get more than one infernus by jacking it during brucie's race missions. Also, if you drive around in an infernus, other infernus's will be seen driving nearby, but it is rare.

+

::::::{{rebut}}You ''can'' find an Infernus on the streets; I found one while driving a Pinnacle. It's just very rare.

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{{Gripe}}A lot of cars that appear in single player, do not appear in multiplayer.

{{Gripe}}A lot of cars that appear in single player, do not appear in multiplayer.

How To Rebut Gripes

Rebuttals should address reasons it is not a valid gripe, and should not accuse the gripe of being "silly" or "stupid."

Crashing on a motorcycle and bailing out of a car aren't fun anymore, and often result in death.

Once more, the game is meant to be more realistic.

But even though you were wearing a helmet, you'd still die from the crash. The game really lacks realistic attempts.

A helmet does not protect your entire body which means that bike crashes are still realistic.

About 10 sec knocked out player will be better.

And if the players arms are broken?

Whenever you crash you go flying out of the windshield.

Well, the game designers are trying to be more close to reality. I always found it to be extremely far-fetched that Claude, Tommy Vercetti, and Carl Johnson could slam into a brick wall at 100+ MPH and emerge without a scratch.

Not EVERYTIME. Unless it's a high speed crash into an unmovable object(Pole for examples) You would fly out, but if you crashed slower or in a different angle, you would not fall out of the car.

The "flying out of a windshield" thing is seemingly random. I hit a taxicab head-on at a moderate speed, and flew out the windshield. I hit another taxicab head-on at full speed, and didn't fly out.

All depends on the angle. Take trigonometry and it shall be explained to you.

Cars explode for the stupidest and unrealistic reasons, i.e. shooting the window of a car, shooting the roof.

I thought GTA IV was about "realism." I guarantee firing a shotgun shell at the windowsill of a car in real-life will not cause it to catch fire.

If GTA was realistic you would go to jail after your first kill and stay there.

The fact that cars still explode unrealistically is proof that GTA IV isn't a realistic game.

Has it ever been? It just strayed into a little realism. It has never been and will never be full realism. It is a game, after all.

Cars exploding realistically should have been part of that "little realism".

Glitches are the answer to mistakes in a game.

No car surfing! In previous GTA games you could stowaway on top of a moving vehicle and ride it to it's destination. Now, if you stand or squat on top of a vehicle and it moves, you tumble off like a quadriplegic. Not very realistic.

If you're talking about realism, then it is quite impossible for someone to stand on top of a moving car without falling over.

Riding on a flat roof or in the back of a pickup is possible.

While standing straight up? I don't think so. Go try it yourself and see what happens.

Tanks would be unrealistic, as the armed forces would not send a tank into New York City after a single man. Airplanes would also be unrealistic because air-travel around New York City is extremely restricted, plus there's really not enough area to need air-travel.

Tanks and airplanes are more realistic than being released from custody hours after being arrested for mass murder/terrorism. If omissions are to be made for the sake of realism then there must be a level of consistency.

Even if tanks and airplanes are more realistic, it still doesn't make sense to send in the military to take out one man. Its a city, not a warzone.

Airplanes can be used to destroy helicopters. Or Rockstar could place an aircaft carrier, that would make it more realistic.

New York City has an aircraft carrier, the USS Intrepid, that is a floating museum. Such a thing would fit in Liberty City.

Liberty City is only modeled after New York City, and doesn't have every bit of detail.

There are no car mods or even simply choosing your paint color.

There are special editions of cars. The Pay'n'Spray is suppose to be colour matching, but somehow they just did not do it. lol

Car mods are necessary, because there are races.

Last I checked, the color of a car was not vital, nor even tied, to its success in a race.

It gets annoying when you really want a colour for yourself, and also if you want a spoiler on the back. couldnt it be cool if it helped with aerodynamics?

GTA isn't a car modding game. Car modding was only seen in San Andreas as a feature, and not in any other GTA game.

The game is called Grand Theft Auto and a majority of it is driving so why not have the ability to customize cars?

The yellow boxes in front of safehouses are stupid and poorly made. Often AI traffic hits them as they're driving, causing the saved cars to disappear. Garages were much better and safer, and less chance of cars disappearing.

Parking spaces are more likely of what you will have instead of a garage. Most preferably a whole car park or something, but not a garage of your own in some poor old space. In Algonquin, probably, but it just wastes too much space of the area. It's simply what everyone will think in real life.

In real life you would have a range of parking options. A garage, or parking space in a multi-deck or underground car park is more realistic, even valet parking. The fact that every safe house just happens to have the same yellow area out the front is just another thing that detracts from the realism. Especially given that in a lot of cases there are no other cars parked in the street. Where do the other residents in the building park?

It's possible that these residents are currently at their day job, or maybe hanging out with friends, shopping, etc. After all, there ARE a lot of cars on the road constantly.

No "R3" Missions for anything other than the police cruiser.

Would you really want a convicted felon driving an ambulance?

There are not enough special vehicles like golf carts, lawn mowers, and bicycles. Bicycles are common in NYC, why not Liberty City?

I guess Rockstar just left them out because it'd be too much of a pain getting around on a bicycle: streets rammed with cars and pedestrians, and we all remember how fiddly the bikes were to control in San Andreas, don't we? You'd be on your arse every two minutes. Not to mention how huge the playing area is.

They could correct the bikes, set few people to use them and etc.

Although I see your point, that's completely contrary to your statement in the beginning of your gripe "Bicycles are common in NYC". If they are common, setting few people to use them would be a mistake because then it would give people like you something to complain about.

There are fewer cars in the game compared to San Andreas, and no fixed-wing aircraft available to the player. Even though the city is smaller than GTA San Andreas, the designers of the game shouldn't have lost more stuff than they put in, that includes Vehicles and Planes. Just a general mistake on behalf of Rockstar

No there are more cars in GTA IV then in San Andreas. More choices.

The variety of vehicles is greatly reduced. This limits the players experience and hurts the overall playability of the free roam game.

Only so many cars can be made to fit in a huge game like GTA IV.

How the Voodoo was changed.

That's your opinion.

In my opinion, Rockstar really blew-it by ruining a perfectly good muscle car with Hydraulics. Now, its just as useless as the perennial.

Again, that's your opinion, something not usually taken into account for a product to be released to millions of people.

The need for getting somewhere quickly has been taken care of with taxis. Besides, trains are a bit of a pain in the ass: they're rooted to one, erm, route. What is there to do on a train other than hopefully crash it into another one (and die) or go so fast you fly off the tracks (and die)?

Maybe they should make the train more real, I mean you could walk inside the train, use emergency stop, that's just my opinion.

I agree!!! They should have more people too.

Not everyone uses the subway, and taking Taxi's places are faster, which is why there are so little people on the subway.

It's now replace with the Annihilator which is faster but lacks rockets.

The Hunter should have been left in anyway. Since GTAIV isn't as realistic as it seems, an iconic helicopter like the Hunter should have stayed in the game as an option, even if it doesn't fit.

By 2008, the Hunter model would be out of date, and so, out with the old, in with the new.

When Niko steers the car in any direction, the steering wheel doesn't move at all, which left Rockstar Games no explanation to this problem.

At least the car turns.

But not the steering wheel. It's hardly even realistic to see how the car turns into any direction, but not the steering wheel.

Not every detail can be made. Let us see you make a game like GTA IV and get every detail you miss, and see if it can fit on one disc.

Airbags do not deploy on any vehicles when slammed head-on at high speeds.

That just brings out the fun of the new physics engine, seeing Niko fly out of the car. Plus I don't really think that it really has to be this realistic. It would just ruin the fact that this is a GAME.

Another area where realism is affected. If realism is to be the justification for limiting the players experience then anything unrealistic becomes a criticism of the game.

Airbags are turned off or removed, they are just liabilities to some people.

You can't attach trailers in the back of your truck like in GTA San Andreas.

What would you do exactly with a trailer on the back of your truck?

Gas Tank trailers, Containers, Car Transporters, etc.

Limits the scope of possibilities in the free roam game. Shortens the lifespan of the game. The RS Haul Missions in SA could provide hours of game play on their own.

Why would Niko be a tow trucker to get money? It seems like he would want to kill himself if he had that job.

Brucie's helicopter is useless. It would have been better if you could fly his helicopter yourself.

But how would you acquire it? Stealing? I don't steal from friends.

Have fun stealing from Brucie and having him pissed at you, and take away the helicopter. That is why you can't steal his helicopter.

There are only two unique helicopters in the game, and only 1 of them is armed.

Although this is a slight retraction of realism, GTA IV is not solely based on helicopters, nor is it centered around aircraft travel / usage. Besides, how common are the helicopters when not spawned, anyways?

Rare vehicles aren't here anymore.

There is a Sultan RS which is a rare car. Also the Infernus is rare.

Both cars are extremely rare and are only found online multiplayers. The Comet is nowhere to be seen again, which led me to a huge disappointment, since the Comet is my favorite car.

It depends on where you are looking for it and what you are driving at that time. You could always spawn your Comet using a cheat code(Which does not affect anything)

You can't go fast when driving boats because even the smallest wave will completely slow you down.

Use the left analog stick to judge the waves. When a wave is coming towards you, push it down. This will raise the nose of the boat and will increase the speed of the boat.

Ok, thanks.

No Hydraulics.

New York City isn't the huge place for the ghetto, and most low lives in Liberty City can't afford them.

Some car names have been recycled for new cars and the names don't really make sense with the car they resemble anymore.

This adds realism by showing the evolution of cars. The modern crown vic's no longer look the way they did in the 80's, do they?

Yeah but it makes no sense how the Stallion doesn't resemble a Mustang or an Esperanto doesn't resemble an Eldorado from any generation anymore.

Car models change. Look at the Honda Accord from 1998, then the Accord from 2008. See a difference?

This is whats basically happening here, they got a 1998 Accord, called it Concord and in the next game there's an older version based on 1979 Buick Riviera. The name just doesn't go with it (and I'm starting to see this argument is getting pointless).

Have fun coming up with car names then.

No remote controlled vehicles (rc-car/plane etc).

This is a good thing. RC Missions were the absolute worst. I don't see how this is a gripe.

No go cart. Not even a go-cart attraction.

Go-Carts were the worst vehicles in San Andreas, I am glad they are gone.

Not a lot of people would be driving a Quad on the beach in NYC, would they.

Actually, NYC beaches are popular places to go quad racing at night.

Have fun getting your quad there, if you can.

Most vehicles are very rare like the Infernus which you get only one chance to own, and never see again.

To see a rare car again, you have to use your own frequently. On my completed game, I have FOUR Infernus-es.

Iconic sports cars like the Stinger and Cheetah are nowhere to be found.

They've been replaced by cars like the Sultan RS and Feltzer.

How can you own four Infernus cars if there is only one from the parking space. It only appears in online multiplayer, but not single player. Using more than one Infernus counts as cheating and cheating affects the game, so it's better off not to use cheats at all.

Cheating may be undesirable to you, but for some people, it just wouldn't be GTA without cheats.

You can actually get more than one infernus by jacking it during brucie's race missions. Also, if you drive around in an infernus, other infernus's will be seen driving nearby, but it is rare.

You can find an Infernus on the streets; I found one while driving a Pinnacle. It's just very rare.

A lot of cars that appear in single player, do not appear in multiplayer.

They aren't best suited for combat. Multiplayer was made for combat, not running around in weak, defenseless vehicles. If you think Rockstar is so lazy, they should have just left multiplayer out of the game so you don't bitch about it.

The Securicar, the Packer, the Benson and the Flatbed are best suited to combat. After all, even if they are trucks, it would be very useful for combat, even if it's not explosion proof.

Only 1 sportbike is in the game, while GTA:SA had about 6 or 7.

There's the PCJ600, NRG900 and a suspicious bike NRG900RR

There's several variations of the NRG900: NRG900, NRG900F, NRG900RR, but that's it. The PCJ600 is old and not as fast, and doesn't look like a sportbike.

NRG 900, Zombie, PCJ600, Faggio

He's talking about sport bikes. The Faggio, Sanchez (counts as the dirt bike), Zombie and PCJ 600 do not count as sport bikes. Too slow and it has very little use to race. The PCJ 600's speed becomes unstable at high speeds. The FCR-900 and the BF-400 are two sports bikes in GTA SA and Rockstar Games removed it without even explaining why.

Rockstar doesn't bother to explain to anyone because they don't want to hear your bitching. New bikes have been made, and some have been removed to make room for the new ones. GTA IV isn't meant to be a copy of San Andreas with a new city and better graphics.

Roofs from vehicles doesn't get crushed when you roll over. There aren't any roll bars from any cars.

Theres a roll cage in the Sultan RS. Also, the roof of a car is supposed to be a very protective part of a car.

But all other cars don't even have roll bars and they're not supposed to stay intact even after a hard landing.

Roofs can be crushed. Being the strongest part of a car, they take a lot of force to crush. A fall off a small building is enough to crumple the roof.

There are only 5 residential vehicle parking spaces, which means you are forced to store few of your favorite cars into the parking space, since Rockstar Games refused to explain why.

Maybe they weren't asked, or they don't bother with people bitching about the hard work? And how many garages are there in New York City? Its mostly car parks. Garages are for the higher classes in New York City.

There aren't enough 'realism' vehicles i.e. cement mixers, street sweepers, 'meter maids' etc - although not exactly amazing to look at or drive, they do add that extra touch of realism which would have fitted in with GTA IV's atmosphere perfectly.

Maybe because there isn't an cement being poured, or that Liberty City has decided to ruin is streets because of low budgets. And meter maids are those things on the side of the road where you park and put money in.

That's a parking meter a meter maid is this ('meter maid' being a nickname of course) and considering the amount of construction sites, it seems likely that cement trucks may be needed.

You don't even have first person mode (without bug) in trains nor possibility to walk in trains.

Why would you need first person view in trains when you can't drive them?

Both the Sea Sparrow and the Leviathan helicopters were taken away for no reason whatsoever. Both of them are great which are used to land on water, but why remove them? Both helicopters were awesome.

GTA IV isn't a sea game.

They could include them if they had an aircraft carrier.

The Vortex hovercraft was taken away for no reason. It was a great vehicle, so why remove it?

Hovercraft aren't really common in New York City.

The BF Injection was removed. Just because it's a great vehicle and designed for off-roading, doesn't mean they can remove it for no reason at all.

Driving a dune buggy in NYC would be silly.

Not true. The BF Injection is a great vehicle that was designed for going off-road at the coast lines and driving around beaches and performing stunts.

Once again, Liberty City isn't about beaches. Go back to Los Angeles to find some beaches and dune buggies.

The majority of good cars were removed by Rockstar Games and they refused to explain why.

Rockstar doesn't answer to people who bitch about their hard work. Cars are removed due to that fact that THEY CAN'T FIT THEM IN THE GAME.

They could have fit more cars etc in the game if they'd put less emphasis on the graphics/physics.

Tow Truck was removed. This was a great vehicle that was used to tow rare vehicles and park into residential parking spaces, but they removed it for no reason at all.

Drive the car, don't tow it.

Even still, in a game that strives for realism, you'd think there would be at least a few tow trucks driving around a recreated NYC.

The Packer's ramp doesn't touch the ground, so you can not do stunts (even though a pre-release screenshot shows a Sabre GT jumping off of one).

That was a beta mode of GTA IV, and things change while in beta.

{

OK? Why make the game worse for no reason?

It's just one tiny little error. How can it make the game worse?

Actually, if you look at the screenshot mentioned, there is no ramp between the Packer and the road, meaning that it was simply either a misleading pre-render, or a screenshot of a scripted scene (not in the final game obviously, like the screenshot of the limo with about 7 police cars along side it)

This doesn't change the fact that this is a legitimate gripe, and you've solved nothing.

Personal opinions aren't legitimate gripes.

So in your opinion, the ramp on a stunt truck shouldn't touch the ground? You'd make a horrible game developer!

But that's the thing, they're not stunt trucks. Firstly, they're for carrying cars, and secondly, don't you think it would be a bit stupid having the ramp scrape along the floor?

I would'nt think so. In real life, you can operate its ramp down. Besides, the Packer truck should elevate its suspension height, making it easy for the ramps to operate. I've seen real trucks with the ramp down and not scrape so low to the ground.

Auxilary lights (roof lights, grille lights) on vehicles do not work.

Niko doesn't have time to look flashy while in a chase, does he? And what if those lights were off for a reason?

He has time to turn the ice cream truck music on, doesn't he? What about when he's not in a chase? If GTA IV is trying to be 'more realistic', the lights should turn on.

Why would you want them on?

Perhaps for the same reason they are on the vehicle in the first place.

If it was possible to use a seatbelt, we wouldn't fly out of a car during a crash.

Niko does actually buckle his seatbelt. Get in a car and start the engine and wait. He does an extra motion after turning the key, which may be buckling the seatbelt.

Niko does not buckle a seatbelt (which explains why no seatbelt is seen, there is no buckling motion, and he flies out of the car when slamming into a wall).

Seatbelts aren't indestructable.

Assuming that Niko doesn't take out a knife and cut the seatbelt everytime he gets into a car, than there is no reason the seatbelt should break. "Seatbelts aren't indestructable" is a pointless, irrelevant statement.

Its leather (or whatever the fabric is) against gravity, what is going to win?

If you're implying that gravity can tear leather, than you are an idiot. If you are implying that gravity has anything to do with a car crash, than you are an even bigger idiot. So which is it.

Why have the Annihilator, in the game, if you can't use it for misson's other that the one chasing after Pegorino or Dimitri.

The Annihilator was never meant for missions, and was only added for players to enjoy after completing the game.

Maybe, who knows,but at the same time, R* could have made some missions for use with the chopper,San Andreas also has a chopper, but the only time i saw it was in the training, no where else, unless you did a cheat code and spawned it

For the last time, this isn't San Andreas, and the story has been set, one way or another, without the Annihilator.

Forklifts may be drivable, but you can't operate forklifts to carry boxes anymore, which completely strays away realism and fun.

Now what is the point in using the fork lift for fun? How is it fun? It is useless, and that is why it was removed. Rockstar needed disk space for more import stuff.

In real life, no, of course that never happens, but in a game anything is possible. The fact that cars can also be physically crushed would have made it quite interesting

Once again, we're robbed of the chance to pretend we're Steve McQueen in Bullitt because there's no car that accurately resembles the '68 Mustang GT 390. We've got a replica of the '68 Charger (the other car from the Bullitt car chase) in the form of the Dukes and a few other badass muscle cars, but where is the coolest muscle car of them all?

They need something for downloadable content.

They took away the Cheetah, the handling king at high speed, and it looked good too.

They have replaced it with a newer, better car.

Which one, because the Infernus doesn't really handle well, a little bump and it flips over.

The Turismo is a modern rendition of the Cheetah. It resembles a Ferrari 360. The Cheetah used to resemble a Ferrari Testarossa therefore the Turismo is the new Cheetah.

Yeah, the Turismo is the new Cheetah, only with its acceleration atrocious, making this a so-called "new Cheetah" a bad choice.

Choppers handled better in GTA: SA

Helicopters aren't easy to fly, so they are made harder to fly in for more realism.

The Blackhawk does not handle like a Blackhawk. It handles like a jetranger. It's too jumpy. S-70s are big, stable helicopters (except when they're swallowing sand). The Raindance handled like a blackhawk should. The Annihilator acts like a Hunter. The Pedals need to be a little less sensitive so the nose could be kept on the target for more than 5 seconds...

You do not know that, have you ever flown in a helicopter? Rockstar only used the most exclusive and upfront references for the handling of all vehicles. And, go outside and watch someone fly a helicopter. They will barely move the stick-shift-thingy, and the helicopter will react very sensitively. Helicopters aren't as slow as dump trucks. And BlackHawks weren't made for taking down one man, but in fact a large group, and vehicles.

You are wrong on so many accounts. First, the Blackhawk can fly 130-140 mph. tops. An apache can only hit 140. Some sources say both types exceed 180 mph which is true...when they have a skeleton crew, no weapons, no cargo, and very little fuel. And it is a UTILITY HELICOPTER, UH. They are trucks, buddy. "The pilots barely move the controls" is a relative statement. What you see from outside the cockpit and what you feel on the controls are two vastly different things. I'm not a rotary wing pilot, but I've got my multi-engine license and I have flown helicopters before; MD 530s and Bell 204s with supervision.

GTA IV doesn't use helicopters as trucks. Look somewhere else.

This is a GRIPE PAGE. I have made a legitimate gripe. Go find me a pic of a blackhawk, let alone a police hawk, with four miniguns. How about YOU look somewhere else to fulfill your inferiority complex, because it won't work on me. If Blackhawks in the game carried a full complement (10 troops + 2 door gunners + 2 pilots), even minus the door gunners, full-blown heliborne assaults could be carried out, which would be sweet in multiplayer.

I don't think that some airforce officers would sit in a helicopter and let a random person fly it, let alone a convicted criminal, and not do anything.

I'm sorry you're under the impression that it is an Air Force helicopter...it's not. Secondly, it's grand THEFT auto. And officers don't fly...warrant officers do, which are enlisted men. What exactly was the point you were trying to make...because you've lost it.

No Romero funeral car for everyone to drive around the LC? How dissapointing. Sure it can be driven by one mission, but regardless of going into any churches you see, the Romero is never to be seen again.

When you die, do you want your corpse to be stolen because some guy wanted a hearse?

That would be impossible, as Niko dies many time he gets, yet never stays dead. What I'm saying is that I wish there was people driving the Romero for me to steal it.

Why the Buffalo is never seen driving around the streets of Liberty City? It is a good vehicle, yet the only variation they added the FIB version of the Buffalo, and not a civilian model. A dissapointing effort.

They'll probably have the regular Buffalo in a car pack in the episodic content

How long is this going to take? I mean, the fans here does'nt want any game of patience when R* now focuses on the PC version (which I doubt it will happen, because no computer can handle THAT) and the GTA game for the Wii and DS (which I think it's a GTA 2-esque game, and the top view sucked).

Remember when GTA IV came out? They said it would come out between February and April if I'm correct. It came out the last week of April. These things take a long time. It will probably come out in late January, December if were lucky. Just wait. It'll come. Once Rockstar is done with GTA IV for PC and Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars, then they'll focus on the episodic content.

The Sultan RS may be an excellent vehicle, but is rendered unsellable as Stevie won't accept this vehicle, making realism a total let-down.

Perhaps Stevie will not accept the Sultan RS because it is filled with aftermarket parts, and Stevie has no use for aftermarket products. If Stevie is running a standard chop shop, he would want stock parts, not a bunch of carbon junk.

Wish that R* would'nt make a dumb decision into not storing vehicles in garage, which is much safer and easy to store. The yellow boxes are too few and is completely stupid that you're forced to store up to 10 vehicles, rather than keep 30 vehicles or more.

Niko is not meant to have a lot of money in the main storyline.

Real estate is sparse in Liberty City, and a parking spot is tough to find at rush hour, even for tenants. The dedicated parking spaces work as advertised, and problems do arise when one tries to push the limits of the space.

The Airtug does'nt attach luggages from the back, like you do that in GTA: SA, thus making realism really disappointing.

Who cares. It was a completely useless feature and it does not affect gameplay.

The evolution of the cars is getting awkward, designs change significantly what appears in like a couple years (the cars they're based on can even be from around the same year and somehow the design still changes form one to the other) as does the class and type of car they are.