When conservatives say we're against big government, part of what we're talking about is the inherently abusive tendencies of bureaucracy.

Bureaucrats don't have to show a profit, or be in any other way regulated by reality. They do what it says they're supposed to do, however they interpret it, with oversight only by other bureaucrats. Government picks people who generally cannot have other careers to do these jobs.

I'm not yay-gung-ho about privatization, but private insurance hiring private companies might have done a better job of cost accounting. The Red Cross seems to be doing OK, not great, but better than FEMA as a practical solution.

The last really big storm I went through knocked power out for weeks for eight million people. We never saw any FEMA activity.

You really can't do that unless they are paying. There are all sorts of laws that protect tenants, and if you're putting someone up like that, it's likely they'll be able to find some way to take advantage of those laws to your disadvantage.

KatjaMouse:This sounds more like a screw up on the City's behalf than FEMA's to me.

iirc FEMA's roll is to supplement the resources of the state that the disaster took place, they are under control of the Governor and are essentially just extra man power and resources. Any decisions made are not made by them.

It is my understanding that most FEMA programs are available for people who REQUEST them. FEMA doesn't know who got displaced or how to contact them. The person who got displaced has to contact FEMA (or local EM agency) to request these rooms. If they are instead sleeping on a friend's couch and don't want a hotel, then they won't be using the hotel rooms...

Putting displaced people up in hotels ends up costing more than just the rack rate. When you have a family actually living out of a hotel room for days and weeks, stuff breaks, rips and gets soiled. I know if I owned a hotel I want it in writing that someone is going to reimburse whatever cost I'd have to incur to bring that room back to a rentable state. I think there's more going on here than we know.

Does FEMA agents follow the same work schedule as most Govenment employees.

All major holidays off . Close the office down around 3:30. Voice message alerting that Mr. ---- system is full.Weekends and personal days ....

Because this could be the problem causing the bottle necks.

* Radio.".yeah I got a family of four needing shelter and assistance..over."---* Yeah.. Miss Gladys is away from her desk until Monday .You can leave a message on her voice mail..over."* Radio." What about these people ? over "---" You can leave a message for Miss Gladys ..over & OUT."

Right. FEMA is the poster-child for misallocation of resources.Not, say, Iraq with its importing of sand to a desert for a volleyball court, or billions in cash outright unaccounted for, or bribing militants to not blow people up, or any of that shiat.

No no no.When you mobilize that large a slice of government *for war* it's understood that some things will fall through the cracks and inefficiencies will persist, due in no small part to chaotic communications and non-functioning infrastructure in the place you just blew to shiat.

It's *totally different* when you mobilize people *without guns* into a place with chaotic communication and non-functioning infrastructure that *mother nature* blew to shiat.In *that* case, any and all inefficiencies are a sign of the moral failure of trying to help those people in the first place.

FTFA: "The Department of Homeless Services says some unused rooms are reserved so they are available if more seek shelter."

"IF MORE" In other words, FEMA booked more just in case they needed more.

Imagine that. FEMA doing things "just in case"

/not sure if subby is advocating that FEMA sublet the rooms on a night to night basis. You know like you can rent out your timeshare that you booked. That could save some money, Other than that, if your stuck homeless in NYC, 'seek shelter' to qualify to use spare rooms. 'Seek' is an active verb.

sodomizer:When conservatives say we're against big government, part of what we're talking about is the inherently abusive tendencies of bureaucracy.

Bureaucrats don't have to show a profit, or be in any other way regulated by reality. They do what it says they're supposed to do, however they interpret it, with oversight only by other bureaucrats. Government picks people who generally cannot have other careers to do these jobs.

I'm not yay-gung-ho about privatization, but private insurance hiring private companies might have done a better job of cost accounting. The Red Cross seems to be doing OK, not great, but better than FEMA as a practical solution.

The last really big storm I went through knocked power out for weeks for eight million people. We never saw any FEMA activity.

No, privatization is another layer of ineffeciancy beaurocratically created and regulated that feeds on itself and is but a pork barrel. A true consecutive would oppose privatization and demand that politicians do their job and represent the people that elected them rather than the lobbiest that provides the hookers and blow

Before the storm, I heard a pundit say "FEMA usually gets high marks right after a disaster, when they are getting into areas that other organizations can't and providing help. People are usually grateful for any helping hand at that point. A few days or weeks later is when the criticism comes out. That's when the red tape and wasteful spending comes to light."

ringersol:Right. FEMA is the poster-child for misallocation of resources.Not, say, Iraq with its importing of sand to a desert for a volleyball court, or billions in cash outright unaccounted for, or bribing militants to not blow people up, or any of that shiat.

No no no.When you mobilize that large a slice of government *for war* it's understood that some things will fall through the cracks and inefficiencies will persist, due in no small part to chaotic communications and non-functioning infrastructure in the place you just blew to shiat.

It's *totally different* when you mobilize people *without guns* into a place with chaotic communication and non-functioning infrastructure that *mother nature* blew to shiat.In *that* case, any and all inefficiencies are a sign of the moral failure of trying to help those people in the first place.

Get out of here with your rational expectations and proper perspective. This has no place on Fark.

ringersol:It's *totally different* when you mobilize people *without guns* into a place with chaotic communication and non-functioning infrastructure that *mother nature* blew to shiat.In *that* case, any and all inefficiencies are a sign of the moral failure of trying to help those people in the first place.

KatjaMouse:This sounds more like a screw up on the City's behalf than FEMA's to me.

It doesn't sound like a screw-up at all. This is surge capacity, in case they have more people suddenly needing a place to stay. If they don't pay for those rooms, they could wind up closing a temporary shelter and having nowhere to put the people who were in it.

The Milford Plaza, btw, is very reasonably priced and kinda well-decorated; very European-style rooms. The lobby's a dated-looking dump, but who cares?

So now can we start criticizing Obama's response to Hurricane Sandy? Or is that untouchable b/c he is a dem? Would be nice if the news organizations would spend just as much time covering the problems still existing, rather than pretend everything is back to normal. Here's a few bits of news I found...I am not hearing this on the regular news nor seeing it on the big news sites like CNN, MSNBC, etc. Why is that?

Those hotel rooms are reserved for visiting dignitaries and politicians who might pledge money to help pay for the city's expenses. They can't perform that function if you put actual victims in them.

/same reason all those generators brought in to support the marathon couldn't be used to provide power//even if the marathon is cancelled, you still can't use them to help, because they have to be returned to their proper storage facilities///the dust isn't going to gather itself, you know

k1j2b3:So now can we start criticizing Obama's response to Hurricane Sandy? Or is that untouchable b/c he is a dem? Would be nice if the news organizations would spend just as much time covering the problems still existing, rather than pretend everything is back to normal. Here's a few bits of news I found...I am not hearing this on the regular news nor seeing it on the big news sites like CNN, MSNBC, etc. Why is that?

Hurricane Sandy worse than Katrina

FEMA fails to find housing for victims

Katrina on the Hudson

Gee, I dunno, maybe there's less coverage because we're talking about a couple thousand people on Long Island and Staten Island with flood damage, rather than the utter destruction of much of a city of half a million people? Y'think? There's a housing shortage; they've given people rent vouchers, and those aren't working, and Plan B takes awhile. It's not like FEMA has a bunch of trailers sitting at the ready to be plunked down on some piece of property on a moment's notice. You have a choice; bureaucratic red tape to ensure compliance with rules, or corruption. You get a little of both, you're probably hitting the mark.

Tatterdemalian:Those hotel rooms are reserved for visiting dignitaries and politicians who might pledge money to help pay for the city's expenses. They can't perform that function if you put actual victims in them.

/same reason all those generators brought in to support the marathon couldn't be used to provide power//even if the marathon is cancelled, you still can't use them to help, because they have to be returned to their proper storage facilities///the dust isn't going to gather itself, you know

sasbazooka:I have some good friends down in Ocean County that were flooded out, and FEMA has taken care of them pretty well. They aren't ALL bad.

I am in ocean county and displaced. Fema gave us temporary housing assistance right away, but finding a place has been impossible. The hotel waiting list is over 50 people long, and who in their right mind will rent short term to a single mom with five kids? We are renting my parents place right now, and she isn't cutting us a break at all. Plus she is always here. I can not wait to go home. Any home. I am losing my damn mind.

5monkeys:sasbazooka: I have some good friends down in Ocean County that were flooded out, and FEMA has taken care of them pretty well. They aren't ALL bad.

I am in ocean county and displaced. Fema gave us temporary housing assistance right away, but finding a place has been impossible. The hotel waiting list is over 50 people long, and who in their right mind will rent short term to a single mom with five kids? We are renting my parents place right now, and she isn't cutting us a break at all. Plus she is always here. I can not wait to go home. Any home. I am losing my damn mind.

WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME ON FARK.COM?!?!?!?WHY AREN'T YOU OUT LOOKING FOR A JOB OR GETTING A NEW HOUSE OR PULLING YOURSELF UP BY YOUR DAMN BOOTSTRAPS!!!!!?????????

FEMA is starting to assist people with funds to rebuild, but the cap is at $31,000 or so, i believe. That is not going to go far when someone has $200,000 in damage to their home (ignoring any possible insurance claims where applicable).

I'm sure in Kansas, after a tornado strike, $31,000 can go a long way, but not here. Making it even worse, no doubt the Northeast puts in the most tax-based funding into the program in the first place. Another case of not getting back what you put in.

ChipNASA:5monkeys: sasbazooka: I have some good friends down in Ocean County that were flooded out, and FEMA has taken care of them pretty well. They aren't ALL bad.

I am in ocean county and displaced. Fema gave us temporary housing assistance right away, but finding a place has been impossible. The hotel waiting list is over 50 people long, and who in their right mind will rent short term to a single mom with five kids? We are renting my parents place right now, and she isn't cutting us a break at all. Plus she is always here. I can not wait to go home. Any home. I am losing my damn mind.

WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME ON FARK.COM?!?!?!?WHY AREN'T YOU OUT LOOKING FOR A JOB OR GETTING A NEW HOUSE OR PULLING YOURSELF UP BY YOUR DAMN BOOTSTRAPS!!!!!?????????

Seriously? Seriously? I have a job, and am a student. I look everyday for housing, and have a few Realtors on it. There is nothing. We are waiting for our home to be repaired, and hopefully it will be in a month or two. The contractors have finished demo, but haven't started the rebuild. They wont give me a clear finish date. So this is a practice of patience for me.

5monkeys:ChipNASA: 5monkeys: sasbazooka: I have some good friends down in Ocean County that were flooded out, and FEMA has taken care of them pretty well. They aren't ALL bad.

I am in ocean county and displaced. Fema gave us temporary housing assistance right away, but finding a place has been impossible. The hotel waiting list is over 50 people long, and who in their right mind will rent short term to a single mom with five kids? We are renting my parents place right now, and she isn't cutting us a break at all. Plus she is always here. I can not wait to go home. Any home. I am losing my damn mind.

WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME ON FARK.COM?!?!?!?WHY AREN'T YOU OUT LOOKING FOR A JOB OR GETTING A NEW HOUSE OR PULLING YOURSELF UP BY YOUR DAMN BOOTSTRAPS!!!!!?????????

Seriously? Seriously? I have a job, and am a student. I look everyday for housing, and have a few Realtors on it. There is nothing. We are waiting for our home to be repaired, and hopefully it will be in a month or two. The contractors have finished demo, but haven't started the rebuild. They wont give me a clear finish date. So this is a practice of patience for me.

No NOT seriously/welcome to SNARK.COM//sarcasm 101///hope you get a break soon. I know it sucks

ChipNASA:5monkeys: ChipNASA: 5monkeys: sasbazooka: I have some good friends down in Ocean County that were flooded out, and FEMA has taken care of them pretty well. They aren't ALL bad.

I am in ocean county and displaced. Fema gave us temporary housing assistance right away, but finding a place has been impossible. The hotel waiting list is over 50 people long, and who in their right mind will rent short term to a single mom with five kids? We are renting my parents place right now, and she isn't cutting us a break at all. Plus she is always here. I can not wait to go home. Any home. I am losing my damn mind.

WHY ARE YOU WASTING TIME ON FARK.COM?!?!?!?WHY AREN'T YOU OUT LOOKING FOR A JOB OR GETTING A NEW HOUSE OR PULLING YOURSELF UP BY YOUR DAMN BOOTSTRAPS!!!!!?????????

Seriously? Seriously? I have a job, and am a student. I look everyday for housing, and have a few Realtors on it. There is nothing. We are waiting for our home to be repaired, and hopefully it will be in a month or two. The contractors have finished demo, but haven't started the rebuild. They wont give me a clear finish date. So this is a practice of patience for me.

No NOT seriously/welcome to SNARK.COM//sarcasm 101///hope you get a break soon. I know it sucks

Sorry, my sarcasm meter is broken. If someone is being sarcastic I don't see it, or if they are being serious like a douche I know from NY who said all the people in NJ who got flooded were asking for it, and that people losing their homes wasn't as bad as him losing his boardwalk in NJ where he rode his bike 3-4 times a week. They were all vacation homes and seasonal businesses. He is the one who spends money there, and pays for them anyway. That I thought was sarcasm, because someone couldn't possibly be that much of an ahole. But alas, my meter was broken there too, and he is a giant ahole.

Rapmaster2000:tenpoundsofcheese: 5monkeys: I am in ocean county and displaced. Fema gave us temporary housing assistance right away,

Fema was able to give you that housing assistance due to the 53% of the people who pay federal income taxes.Make sure you thank those evil tax payers when you get a chance.

Normally, you're herpderp is meaningless background noise, but try not to be an asshole to the woman with five children that lost her home. It's seriously not cool.

I pay federal taxes. I do not get the child tax credit. I love when people assume I do. I have a small business that I just started, but have had to put on hold due to the storm, and get paid alimony and child support by my ex so I can go to school and support myself and the kids. I do not take public assistance, and pay state and federal taxes. Also, i paid in with my ex for 13 years before we divorced. Fema is the first handout i have ever taken. I have always been the payer, not the recipient. Screw you, and your high horse.