Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

And I think Porsche and Wendell Weidiking should be given much credit (let's not get into WW's overreaching). I distinctly recall attending the 2005 Frankfurt Show and the grounds were filled with protesters against wasteful gas powered cars and companies. Porsche was a target, but anyone rational person would have noticed that, along with the Cayman introduction, there was the first prototype of the Cayenne Hybrid. And that car, followed by Porsche's adoption of "Porsche Intelligent Performance" has led now to the 918 as the pinnacle. Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren--all have stunning products--but IMHO none are even close to Porsche as a manufacturer leading in the new technology/performance segment….

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

While it's mostly a matter of personal preference, and perhaps a bit of hyperbole, ‘ugly’ is not a word I would use to describe any Porsche generally (not even the much maligned Panamera) and certainly not the 911 Turbo S in particular. If you consider the Turbo S and Huracan as sculptures (which is valid since their appearance is under discussion), the Turbo S is more akin to a classical work while the Huracan is more modernistic. One’s taste may run more in one direction or the other, but there’s something to be appreciated in both. (Although, frankly, the LaFerrari, with those giant mirror stalks, looks like a giant beetle — one of the Coleoptera, not a VW — to me.)

Personally, my aesthetic taste runs more to curves than angles, and the, “I just drove off the set of the latest SciFi adventure movie,” look doesn’t appeal to me visually as much as, what I consider, the more elegant lines of a Turbo S. The only Porsche I feel looks a bit awkward is perhaps the Carrera Cabriolet, at least in profile with the top down, but the wider hips and addition of the wing on the Turbo S Cabriolet, in my opinion, add enough character, and perhaps balance, to make it much more attractive than its sibling.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

apias:

The only Porsche I feel looks a bit awkward is perhaps the Carrera Cabriolet, at least in profile with the top down, but the wider hips and addition of the wing on the Turbo S Cabriolet, in my opinion, add enough character, and perhaps balance, to make it much more attractive than its sibling.

Please, please please, live the Cab alone without any "pimped" wings, it looks perfect as it is right now in standart form.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

J.Seven:

apias:

The only Porsche I feel looks a bit awkward is perhaps the Carrera Cabriolet, at least in profile with the top down, but the wider hips and addition of the wing on the Turbo S Cabriolet, in my opinion, add enough character, and perhaps balance, to make it much more attractive than its sibling.

Please, please please, live the Cab alone without any "pimped" wings, it looks perfect as it is right now in standart form.

Glad we all have different tastes

All I'm saying is that if these cars were women, the Huracan would be Grace Jones, The Turbo S would be Beyonce, and the Carerra Cabriolet would be... well... Gwyneth Paltro.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

RC:

Have you read my comment regarding the "software update" your dealer claimed to have done? There was an update available for the AWS system (it was possible that the AWS system goes into emergency mode, thus shutting off, at lower speeds) but nothing else. Was this one maybe related to your problem? If not, I rather guess that they did something you were not supposed to know (hardware issue, exchanged part), which would be kind of weird but at least the problem is gone (hopefully).

Sorry I missed that. No it most certainly wasn't an AWS "emergency mode" issue.
I'm pretty sure they didn't want me to know. I had that feeling all the time.
In any case the car is no longer showing the problem, which is what really matters.

I've been away and didn't get a chance to check the tyres (or drive it )

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

RC:

andyFE:

i am really bored by this 'i need to get an ugly but very fast) car because otherwise my neighbours refuse to send their children sing xmas carols with my children - stuff'. i do not know about germany, but in italy it is not like this unless you live in a small village (which is to be avoided anyway like the plague IMHO). in the UK my friends could not care less what i drive. it is much more important which university education i have got, oxford, cambridge or you've got the drift.

Maybe you should re-read some of the posts of other German and Italian users. I don't think they would agree with you.

Education? Are you kidding me? Do you think anybody here respects that I have two university degrees? They just see the expensive cars, the big house and everything else, well... You should talk to my wife, she is a doctor and she could tell you some nice stories of how some patients talk to her.

Maybe you should get out of your Oxford "shell" from time to time and have a reality check. Just saying...

As to the "ugly" car comment: Have I said something about ugly (I don't think the 991 Turbo S is ugly at all)? I said something about attracting too much attention and a Porsche is actually the perfect sportscar for a society with people who spend 80k on a Audi Diesel stationwagon but removes the badges, so nobody can tell that it is the most expensive version.

Do we really need to start this whole "why" discussion again? Oh boy.

OMG, I've been away a few days and the board has gotten heated

I indeed agree with RC (always a good idea to agree with the moderator ). Although my perception - in a major Italian city - is not as bad as that of RC. I do share however the very same "wife" problem.

While I agree with Andy that the education/culture/knowledge should supersede the car you have in terms of perception, that is true only for those who know you well enough to be able to appreciate said education. And - since often education does not equal money - envy can still be there.

I do possess a master's degree from the - allegedly - most reputable Italian university (not as cool as Oxford I have to concede ), a PhD and I am an MBA professor in international business (in Italy and abroad). Stil my family - strongly - feels I should avoid the flashier brands. I guess I could try to go for a second university degree as RC, but somehow I think my wife's stance wouldn't change ;)

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

RC:

Leawood911:

RC - I believe what mc3744 is doing is simply giving it too much throttle in slick conditions. Even the quickest traction control would slip the tires for a bit and then take away the gas/brake the correct corner etc. Your suggestion to use less throttle makes the most sense. Do not expect the car to save your bacon 100% of the time (or even 10%). The Turbo must still be respected even in the dry. Just because all the safety nets are on and working does not negate the laws of physics.

I usually adapt my throttle foot to the road/driving conditions, which isn't always easy though, I have to admit. So much power under the foot...very tempting.

Yes, power is tempting, isn't it always?

My observation was based on a "gut" comparison between my previous RS6 (not a supercar, but still a 560 hp, V10, bi-turbo) and the 911. The RS6 seemed slightly more "forgiving" on wet, frozen ground.
I'm not complaining about the 911, it wasn't "bad", kind of fun actually. I guess the electronics kicked in (I did not notice), but I feel fairly confident that I would have handled it regardless (I'm praising the car handling, not my driving skills :)). I was just wondering if a certain "jumpiness" is indeed in the car DNA. It seemed so incredibly "unmovable" on dry ground.

I'm also finding the Cayenne Turbo apparently more forgiving on this cold, winter ground. However the Cayenne doesn't make me want to kick down all the time (Btw, it wasn't a kick down, just a strong acceleration).

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

mc3744:

RC:

andyFE:

i am really bored by this 'i need to get an ugly but very fast) car because otherwise my neighbours refuse to send their children sing xmas carols with my children - stuff'. i do not know about germany, but in italy it is not like this unless you live in a small village (which is to be avoided anyway like the plague IMHO). in the UK my friends could not care less what i drive. it is much more important which university education i have got, oxford, cambridge or you've got the drift.

Maybe you should re-read some of the posts of other German and Italian users. I don't think they would agree with you.

Education? Are you kidding me? Do you think anybody here respects that I have two university degrees? They just see the expensive cars, the big house and everything else, well... You should talk to my wife, she is a doctor and she could tell you some nice stories of how some patients talk to her.

Maybe you should get out of your Oxford "shell" from time to time and have a reality check. Just saying...

As to the "ugly" car comment: Have I said something about ugly (I don't think the 991 Turbo S is ugly at all)? I said something about attracting too much attention and a Porsche is actually the perfect sportscar for a society with people who spend 80k on a Audi Diesel stationwagon but removes the badges, so nobody can tell that it is the most expensive version.

Do we really need to start this whole "why" discussion again? Oh boy.

OMG, I've been away a few days and the board has gotten heated

I indeed agree with RC (always a good idea to agree with the moderator ). Although my perception - in a major Italian city - is not as bad as that of RC. I do share however the very same "wife" problem.

While I agree with Andy that the education/culture/knowledge should supersede the car you have in terms of perception, that is true only for those who know you well enough to be able to appreciate said education. And - since often education does not equal money - envy can still be there.

I do possess a master's degree from the - allegedly - most reputable Italian university (not as cool as Oxford I have to concede ), a PhD and I am an MBA professor in international business (in Italy and abroad). Stil my family - strongly - feels I should avoid the flashier brands. I guess I could try to go for a second university degree as RC, but somehow I think my wife's stance wouldn't change ;)

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

What I know is this. I am enjoying my 991 TTS immensely. It is a wonderful sports car that is not only extremely fast, nimble, and a joy to drive, which it is, but also can be driven every day including those we have here on the east coast lately that have been filled with 6+ inches of snow. I'm thoroughly impressed.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

Hank:

What I know is this. I am enjoying my 991 TTS immensely. It is a wonderful sports car that is not only extremely fast, nimble, and a joy to drive, which it is, but also can be driven every day including those we have here on the east coast lately that have been filled with 6+ inches of snow. I'm thoroughly impressed.

Glad to hear that. I never though I would enjoy the new 991 Turbo S so much because I actually wanted to get a GT3 at first. I passed on the 997.2 Turbo S after five years of ownership of a tuned 997.1 Turbo and the fact that the car wasn't really any fun anymore. The 991 Turbo S has changed all that. Only downside: I got used to the power fast, I wish I would have 40 horses more. Also, the BOSE in my Turbo S sounds bad. BOSE sounds much better in the Cayenne and in the Boxster. Which is weird.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

I completely agree with the BOSE critique. It is just not on par with the rest of the car. What I've done is lowered the bass to -2 and increased the treble to +2 to make it almost tolerable.

Maybe we can get 40 extra ponies via exhaust and tuning upgrades in the future. Only if built and upgraded by extremely reputable tuners of course.

Exhaust maybe, everything else...leave it that way. You won't notice a difference. The problem is fuel distribution and unless a tuner finds a way to push more fuel through the fuel injectors... I suspect the facelifted Turbo S will have different turbo chargers and a fuel pump with even higher capacity, probably more hardware changes. Raising the boost pressure doesn't help much I'm afraid.

A sport exhaust with high quality cats could add 20-30 horses though, if done properly. Not sure if an ECU adaptation would be necessary though, probably not (careful...warranty).

I really regret not ordering Burmester but I had Burmester in my Panamera Turbo S and while it sounded nice, the difference to my Cayenne GTS was not very obvious. So I thought BOSE in the Turbo S would be the same but I was wrong. What a mistake. Not that I really enjoy listening to music when I drive my Turbo S (I rather listen to the sound the car produces) but sometimes, when I'm in the car with the family, like yesterday for a short trip to Munich, a good sound from the sound system would have helped a lot. My wife got so annoyed that she actually asked me to turn it off. She was sitting in the rear and didn't hear much of the music.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

hmmm, Porsche may have focussed the Bose system on the front passengers only in the 991...

By the way, isn't it still interesting how many "used" 991 Turbos are on sale with the German Porsche dealers already... I would not want to critizise P. for dumping cars into their dealer network, but we are not talking Carreras but (expensive) Turbos...

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

This review actually contradicts everything I read in the past from other car magazines. Weird.

I also assume that the 991 Turbo S was driving on normal street tires since it isn't mentioned anywhere.

GT3 on MPSC2, TTS on PZero. Second to last picture, in the paragraph named "pneumatici".

Impressive results for both cars, the GT3 accelerates better than expected and the TTS handles better than expected. Both great cars and, in my opinion, they compliment each other differently than the two predecessors (997) did.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

d997h:

hmmm, Porsche may have focussed the Bose system on the front passengers only in the 991...

By the way, isn't it still interesting how many "used" 991 Turbos are on sale with the German Porsche dealers already... I would not want to critizise P. for dumping cars into their dealer network, but we are not talking Carreras but (expensive) Turbos...

I see only three cars from the same dealer (I have a feeling that this is an error in the system). The Turbo S is in high demand in Germany, my dealer was very surprised. He actually sold only one GT3, GT3 demand isn't what he expected but he sold a couple of Turbo S and this is very unusual for a dealership of his size.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

This review actually contradicts everything I read in the past from other car magazines. Weird.

I also assume that the 991 Turbo S was driving on normal street tires since it isn't mentioned anywhere.

GT3 on MPSC2, TTS on PZero. Second to last picture, in the paragraph named "pneumatici".

Impressive results for both cars, the GT3 accelerates better than expected and the TTS handles better than expected. Both great cars and, in my opinion, they compliment each other differently than the two predecessors (997) did.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

Strange... I do recall the AutoZeitung article I read a while ago and the GT3 posted similarly impressive acceleration numbers. Indeed, to 200 kph the difference is noticeable but I think it was something like 10.x for the GT3 and 9.x seconds for the TTS. The result was actually very similar, GT3 faster than expected and the TTS providing a better handling and lap time than expected (despite the lack of Cup tires).

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

Ferdie:

Strange... I do recall the AutoZeitung article I read a while ago and the GT3 posted similarly impressive acceleration numbers. Indeed, to 200 kph the difference is noticeable but I think it was something like 10.x for the GT3 and 9.x seconds for the TTS. The result was actually very similar, GT3 faster than expected and the TTS providing a better handling and lap time than expected (despite the lack of Cup tires).

I don't discuss lap times because the Turbo S runs on street tires and the GT3 on UHP tires, so this is pointless. I was talking about the straight line acceleration and yes, the car in Autozeitung did 0-200 kph in 10.8 or 10.9 seconds as far as I remember, while the Turbo S did 0-200 kph in 9.7 seconds. Even if this would be the real life difference (which we didn't achieve), the difference to 300 kph is huge. There is kind of a over 10 seconds difference between the 991 Turbo S and the 991 GT3 from 200 to 300 kph. I don't remember the precise figure anymore but I think the GT3 did 0-300 kph in 42 seconds or so, which is impressive but not even close to the Turbo S. This is why I highly doubt the 0-1000 m times because at that distance, the Turbo S already has a speed of way over 250 kph.

Re: OFFICIAL: 991 Turbo and Turbo S

Interesting : noise levels measured in the italian Auto magazine test as per above post of Gian61 > the Turbo and the GT3 have same levels of 75,3 Db at 130 Km/h, that is rather impressive (for the GT3), maybe less for the Turbo . Even at 180 Km/h the difference in favour of the Turbo is not very significant. I guess a very good job was done on the GT3 in this respect (or the noise confort has worsened on the Turbo, which I find hard to believe,but have no data at hand so just a thought).