Where we go when we die is only a wishful conclusion not reality. it is based on belief and not fact. As I have said many times all of our experiences are happening in a living body and living mind and this bears no reality to a dead body and dead mind.

I have read all the books and many others and they are interesting and make me think but cant be taken as fact.

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

And how would you know...I'm more inclined to take as nearer fact information given in a book written by a man documenting his experiences and experiments to prove to himself that OOBE's are real and not in his mind... The simple fact he visited his friends miles away at a certain time unknown to his friends, he made mental notes of there activities at the time he viewed them... Then at a later time discussed with what he had witnessed them doing verifying he must have been there... On one occasion he even pinched a friend in the side in one of his OOBE trips causing a bruise yet again proving he was there even though he couldn't be seen...Alot of what Robert monroe says in his books make total sense...you don't Peter

After a lifetime of lucid dreaming and a few thousand of the experiences I have my own opinions and I am sharing them and that is all. The point is that I don't know and neither did he, you are reading words in a book and that is all. He was asked many times to do the experiments for other people and I dont think he ever did.On another note don't make this personal as I am not knocking you, I am stating what I think and not telling you that you are wrong and if you want to post your thoughts on a public forum then accept that others may see it in a different light and debate this if you wish but keep it at that level.

Who are you I asked, the reply "dont be silly, we are your daughers" many years before they were born

"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

All anyone can do is have experiences and, if they choose to do so, relate them to others in a way which they feel allows them to share their experiences. This is all.

HOW someone chooses to share those experiences and in what fashion/format they do so is only to share information.

Robert Monroe felt that what he was experiencing was genuine. His INTERPRETATION of his own experiences can be debated, but *HIS* interpretation of *HIS* experiences is really all that matters, especially to himself. This does mean that he was biased to his experiences... well of course he is, *WE ALL ARE* biased towards what we experience. However, this doesn't, in any way, shape or form, make him a charlatan. That's an extremely ignorant statement to make.

Ryan wrote:All anyone can do is have experiences and, if they choose to do so, relate them to others in a way which they feel allows them to share their experiences. This is all.

HOW someone chooses to share those experiences and in what fashion/format they do so is only to share information.

Robert Monroe felt that what he was experiencing was genuine. His INTERPRETATION of his own experiences can be debated, but *HIS* interpretation of *HIS* experiences is really all that matters, especially to himself. This does mean that he was biased to his experiences... well of course he is, *WE ALL ARE* biased towards what we experience. However, this doesn't, in any way, shape or form, make him a charlatan. That's an extremely ignorant statement to make.

I agree 100% with Ryan and feel Summerlander should be big enough to know what to do with his posting.

Monroe claimed to have a scientific approach to his experiences. Yet, there is nothing scientific about his methods of studying the phenomenon. He told people that they should absolutely accept that a real separation from the body was occurring. That's not science. In the realm of science, no affirmation in certainty is made from a hypothetical stance.

You need theoretical solutions (bearing in mind that scientific theory is substantial in calculation and predicting experimental results) and then concepts can be established or falsified. You will find none of this in what Monroe provided as regards the OOBE phenomenon other than cleverly founding his institute and publishing clever books based on lucid dreams he may or may not have had (not to mention his affiliation with crackpot pseudo-scientist Thomas Campbell).

It's not that I'm ignorant or that I don't know what I'm saying, erichsa. I just choose not to be naive and gullible. These people are running a cult and are no better than a jewellery-grabbing burglar. Only they burgle people's minds and sense.

There are people who are biased and there are those who only care about what is practical and what is fact.

"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."

Summerlander wrote:Monroe claimed to have a scientific approach to his experiences. Yet, there is nothing scientific about his methods of studying the phenomenon. He told people that they should absolutely accept that a real separation from the body was occurring. That's not science. In the realm of science, no affirmation in certainty is made from a hypothetical stance.

You need theoretical solutions (bearing in mind that scientific theory is substantial in calculation and predicting experimental results) and then concepts can be established or falsified. You will find none of this in what Monroe provided as regards the OOBE phenomenon other than cleverly founding his institute and publishing clever books based on lucid dreams he may or may not have had (not to mention his affiliation with crackpot pseudo-scientist Thomas Campbell).

It's not that I'm ignorant or that I don't know what I'm saying, erichsa. I just choose not to be naive and gullible. These people are running a cult and are no better than a jewellery-grabbing burglar. Only they burgle people's minds and sense.

There are people who are biased and there are those who only care about what is practical and what is fact.

If we all chose to individually rename something like an apple, we would not understand each other in communication. So a line has to be drawn when we are choosing to express ourselves (as Ryan up there put it).

There are truths which are scientifically established. Any individual who still claims the Earth is the centre of the universe is a fool. Also, if everyone jumped to conclusions and disregarded empirical evidence, the world would be doomed. Monroe has arrived at his conclusions merely from a hypothetical stance. For him to be so sure of what he claimed, he'd need a good scientific theory which would then lead to falsifiable predictions (for example, the astronautical theory helped us to devise a way to make rockets escape the Earth's gravity). No such substance has ever been presented by Monroe nor his institute so far.

There is no real out-of-body state. Only the illusion of it when a person is in a lucid state of consciousness while they sleep. Stephen LaBerge, the leading expert in this field, has already officially stated what he thinks of Robert Monroe. There is a link here that will educate you and will also help you in your practice once you get past silly beliefs:

http://forum.obe4u.com/index.php?topic=1889.0

I'd also advise you against pseudo-physicists such as Thomas Campbell and so-called paranormal experts like Robert Bruce. Take a look around you, this site is about lucid dreaming and within lucid dreaming one can experience the illusion of going out of body. The only OOBE that exists is a WILD that gives you the illusion of leaving your physical shell. But it is an illusion because the truth is that you are nothing more than your physical shell (so how could you leave it?).

Watch out for ignorant bigots out there who would have you believe otherwise. We all like a good fairytale but as adults we have to move on and consider what's practical.

Good luck!

"Empty cognizance of one taste, suffused with knowing, is your unmistaken nature, the uncontrived original state. when not altering what is, allow it to be as it is, and the awakened state is right now spontaneously present."