Hope I'm not stepping on anyone's toes by starting this thread off, but it's been quiet around here, and the thought of watching (or, in my case, not) the Red Sox in the World Series has left me just wanting the offseason to start already. Finally, and maybe most importantly, the first major domino of free agency has already fallen, as the White Sox signed Cuban import Jose Abreu to a 6 year, 68 million dollar deal. (I would have loved to have seen us in the bidding for him, but his price escalated drastically and there was no way the team was going to pony up anywhere close to that kind of cash for a guy who's never seen major-league pitching for the largest deal in franchise history.) In a way, the offseason has already begun for 28 teams.

So, five days after the World Series is over (hopefully a four-game sweep by the Cardinals, both so it's over quickly and more so that the Red Sox are humiliated), the Indians can begin making moves. They struck quickly last year (Yan Gomes/Aviles and the Choo trade), made some free agent acquisitions all offseason, and surprised everyone with their boldness. This offseason is just as critical, and the "element of surprise" (not to mention a good portion of available cash) has been used up. Kazmir and Ubaldo are as good as gone, and possibly Smith, as well. As to guys we still control--but may no longer want to--Perez, possibly Cabrera, and--god, I hope not--Masterson, who has also crept up to the verge of free agency, could see themselves dealt. (Although I can't imagine the team would want to send the wrong message to fans and deal Masterson for prospects, but stranger things have happened.)

So, as it is, we're (as usual, like any team) looking to shore up the pitching staff, reconstruct the bullpen (or at least redefine some roles), and find a middle-of-the order bat. Tall orders, but as this team showed last season, there's a new-found boldness and less risk-aversion. I think we could be in for an interesting offseason, if, for no other reason, this team knows they have to stay active and aggressive to court the fan base. If they do what they did after '07 (nothing), all the good will earned at the end of the season will be lost. So, look for some interesting news (hopefully).

I wouldn't even want to attempt to predict the moves made, because if they're anything like last year's, it would be way off.

I hope the first off season move is for the Tiger's to hire Manny Acta.

I think the Indians have to try and sign either Ubaldo or Kazmir. My choice would be Kazmir and they need to try and sign Smith. Perez and Cabrera can be traded. IMO Masterson will get a long term deal.

Adverb Harry wrote:...the thought of watching (or, in my case, not) the Red Sox in the World Series has left me just wanting the offseason to start already.............So, five days after the World Series is over (hopefully a four-game sweep by the Cardinals, both so it's over quickly and more so that the Red Sox are humiliated), the Indians can begin making moves.......Anyway, let the offseason speculation, rumor-mongering, and actual reporting of news begin.

I am SO glad someone started a thread just so I can read things! YOU want the Red Sux to get swept in four? I wish it was three. We LIVE in the Bahstun media market. I'll be getting all my real news and weather from the apps on my phone because I can't stand the gushing all over the TV up here. My Gawd, if the Sux win it will be a constant love-fest until the next team is ready for their playoff push. Gaaa!

I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.~~~Annie Savoy-"Bull Durham"

I figure that Ubaldo will opt out, we will give him a qualifying offer and he'll decline. We end up with a draft pick for fixing him.

Chris Perez will be non-tendered. He's just too expensive and somewhat un-tradeable with his baggage. A parting of the ways is necessary, unless Francona can convince management that he can handle him. I still think the cost in dollars is too high.

An effort will be made to re-sign Kazmir, but once he hits the open market the price and/or years will end up being more than we are willing to stomach for a guy with a big injury history.

Given those three, we need to re-sign Smith. The search will begin for another reclamation project like Kazmir to fill a space in the rotation. I also think they'll try to move Bourn, but with his down year, won't find any takers. We'll have to hope that he and Swisher rebound next year. A-Cab will be counted on to have a career year, given that he's playing for a big contract, and the Tribe will smartly ride that instead of trading low on him.

Yeah, even before last night....Kazmir is gonna get a huge offer. And, based on his injury history, and frankly, rightly so, Kazmir is gonna look to take that big offer.

I understand wanting to keep one of these guys - cause I understand all the apeshit "Dolan's Cheap!!!" cats crawling from the woodwork if they don't - but I'm pretty sure when I see the numbers, that I'll be more than ok with them taking a pass.

The odds of them geting premium money in 2014 is about a lock - the odds they are premium players in 2014 is 50/50 at BEST. There are better ways to invest ILO, including not.

I think Kazmir's price tag is now between 10-12M a year. It was probably 7-8 before the ridiculous Lincecum contract. Lincecum isn't worth that kind of money. I don't know what the Giants were thinking.

If Kazmir agrees to a guaranteed two years with a vesting/club option for three, the Indians are in play with a competitive offer. If he's getting three guaranteed, I can't see the Indians doing that.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

WiscTribeFan wrote:Makes you wonder if you make Kazmir a qualifying offer now.

Worth a shot I guess. If he takes it, you hope and pray he stays healthy. Does his agent suggest to take it to build his value into a 5/75 contract next offseason? Or does he take the 3/36 waiting for him this winter?

If I'm him, I take the multi-year deal this year.

The Indians could always make the QO and then be part of the bidding process, right?

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

WiscTribeFan wrote:Makes you wonder if you make Kazmir a qualifying offer now.

The Indians could always make the QO and then be part of the bidding process, right?

I think this is how it will play out. Given that he's likely to command a minimum of $10M, a qualifying offer should be a no-brainer, especially if they decide to non-tender Perez. What's the % chance on them simply letting Perez walk? 75% 100%

At the very least, we end up with two supplemental draft picks, but a very thin starting rotation. We'll need to find another diamond in the rough to rehabilitate next year.

I guess the flip side to this would be to use the QO as leverage to get a more team friendly deal. Having to give up a draft pick will make Kazmir less attractive to some teams.

WiscTribeFan wrote:I think this is how it will play out. Given that he's likely to command a minimum of $10M, a qualifying offer should be a no-brainer, especially if they decide to non-tender Perez. What's the % chance on them simply letting Perez walk? 75% 100%

At the very least, we end up with two supplemental draft picks, but a very thin starting rotation. We'll need to find another diamond in the rough to rehabilitate next year.

I guess the flip side to this would be to use the QO as leverage to get a more team friendly deal. Having to give up a draft pick will make Kazmir less attractive to some teams.

The QO is good leverage. Kazmir's the guy they want to keep at this point. Ubaldo's priced way out of their market now. I hope Kazmir has some loyalty to the team that gave him a chance, but that's a pipe dream.

And with the success this year of former reclamation projects Ubaldo and Kazmir, and the emergence of Kluber, pitching coach Callaway could be a major selling point to guys looking to turn things around. Whether he's responsible or not for the turnarounds, it could tip some decisions in our favor based on that alone.

WiscTribeFan wrote:I think this is how it will play out. Given that he's likely to command a minimum of $10M, a qualifying offer should be a no-brainer, especially if they decide to non-tender Perez. What's the % chance on them simply letting Perez walk? 75% 100%

At the very least, we end up with two supplemental draft picks, but a very thin starting rotation. We'll need to find another diamond in the rough to rehabilitate next year.

I guess the flip side to this would be to use the QO as leverage to get a more team friendly deal. Having to give up a draft pick will make Kazmir less attractive to some teams.

The QO is good leverage. Kazmir's the guy they want to keep at this point. Ubaldo's priced way out of their market now. I hope Kazmir has some loyalty to the team that gave him a chance, but that's a pipe dream.

TouchEmAllTime wrote:How about A.J. Burnett for a year or two if he doesn't resign with Pittsburgh and or retire?

Interesting case. Road ERAs over 4 both seasons with Pittsburgh, so he clearly benefited from being at PNC. But a road FIP of 3.14 this year and 3.77 in 2012 shows that he got a little unlucky.

I'd probably pass because of his age and I'd be concerned about his level of commitment with retirement creeping into his mind. He was really knocked around during his last three seasons in the AL too.

Beggars. Choosers. But I'll pass.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Hoynes only confirmed, once again, that he has no idea what he's talking about. Jimenez won't be offered a multi-year deal because Lincecum got that deal? Huh? And there's even a question of offering him the QO? I get that he's now extremely unlikely to be back here, but I have no idea how Lincecum's new deal means that the Indians aren't even going to offer Jimenez, or may not even consider using the QO.

Hoynes only confirmed, once again, that he has no idea what he's talking about. Jimenez won't be offered a multi-year deal because Lincecum got that deal? Huh? And there's even a question of offering him the QO? I get that he's now extremely unlikely to be back here, but I have no idea how Lincecum's new deal means that the Indians aren't even going to offer Jimenez, or may not even consider using the QO.

Best part of Hoynes "brain". Won't waste the time of making a long term offer because we know he is going to sign a deal for more years and money than we are willing to spend. Won't offer him the QO offer because he might accept a one year deal without even hitting the market!

Hoynes only confirmed, once again, that he has no idea what he's talking about. Jimenez won't be offered a multi-year deal because Lincecum got that deal? Huh? And there's even a question of offering him the QO? I get that he's now extremely unlikely to be back here, but I have no idea how Lincecum's new deal means that the Indians aren't even going to offer Jimenez, or may not even consider using the QO.

If the Giants' rather strange extension of Tim Lincecum -- two years, $35 million for a guy whose advanced ERA was 28 percent below league average over the last two seasons and who probably could have been secured with a one-year qualifying offer -- is any indication whatsoever, the cost of doing business in this free-agent market is going to be punitive, even by free-agency standards, and that does not bode well for the Indians' chances to retain Ubaldo Jimenez and Scott Kazmir, two surprisingly stalwart starters for them.

There will be a multi-year deal waiting for Jimenez somewhere at potentially 14M per or better and the Indians will step aside and focus on Scott Kazmir.

Can't see the Indians passing on a free draft pick after allowing a few to go in the upcoming draft with their FA signings. They'll offer the QO.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

If the Giants' rather strange extension of Tim Lincecum -- two years, $35 million for a guy whose advanced ERA was 28 percent below league average over the last two seasons and who probably could have been secured with a one-year qualifying offer -- is any indication whatsoever, the cost of doing business in this free-agent market is going to be punitive, even by free-agency standards, and that does not bode well for the Indians' chances to retain Ubaldo Jimenez and Scott Kazmir, two surprisingly stalwart starters for them.

There will be a multi-year deal waiting for Jimenez somewhere at potentially 14M per or better and the Indians will step aside and focus on Scott Kazmir.

Can't see the Indians passing on a free draft pick after allowing a few to go in the upcoming draft with their FA signings. They'll offer the QO.

I completely get Castrovince's opinion that he is going to get a ridiculous amount from someone else. I think the majority agree with that. I don't know how anything so far leads to Hoynes thinking that we're not going to even try and test the waters, much less reporting that as something remotely factual.

If it's a situation where Jimenez's agent said not to bother with any offers below X (whatever you consider to be off-the-charts), then Hoynes isn't presenting this accurately.

7foot3 wrote:I completely get Castrovince's opinion that he is going to get a ridiculous amount from someone else. I think the majority agree with that. I don't know how anything so far leads to Hoynes thinking that we're not going to even try and test the waters, much less reporting that as something remotely factual.

If it's a situation where Jimenez's agent said not to bother with any offers below X (whatever you consider to be off-the-charts), then Hoynes isn't presenting this accurately.

To Hoynes's credit, and I've never been a fan of his, he does outline the other possibilities in the rest of his article.

I don't think the Indians were going to offer Jimenez a multi-year deal anyway, but Hoynes used the Lincecum deal as a vessel to get his point across. I understand that's your issue with it. That's a fair point.

Somebody in the organization may have said something to Hoynes in hopes that Jimenez and his agent either agree to the QO or start testing the waters for a multi-year deal instead of waiting for the Indians to make an offer.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

skatingtripods wrote:To Hoynes's credit, and I've never been a fan of his, he does outline the other possibilities in the rest of his article.

I don't think the Indians were going to offer Jimenez a multi-year deal anyway, but Hoynes used the Lincecum deal as a vessel to get his point across. I understand that's your issue with it. That's a fair point.

Somebody in the organization may have said something to Hoynes in hopes that Jimenez and his agent either agree to the QO or start testing the waters for a multi-year deal instead of waiting for the Indians to make an offer.

Hoynes pays enough attention to know all the possibilities? I guess he gets credit for doing his job to the bare minimum.

He doesn't even explain why Lincecum's contract means Jimenez won't get an offer from us. We're just supposed to guess at the rambling thoughts in Hoynes' head?

I'd guess as well that the Indians want Jimenez to turn down the QO and go test the market, but if Hoynes was actually told something to that extent, why would he talk about it being risky to make the QO?

This is, all in all, a complete bullshit report. It may be true that the Indians aren't interested in playing the market on Jimenez. But there's not even a suggestion that he was told something, we're just all supposed to realize the consequences of Lincecum's deal on us. And pup already pointed out the logic in his no long-term deal but maybe no QO either. I'm guessing I'm saying, what's the point in Hoynes having a job if he can't tell us more than the most basic info you can get anywhere, and he doesn't actually provide info from sources inside the team?

skatingtripods wrote:To Hoynes's credit, and I've never been a fan of his, he does outline the other possibilities in the rest of his article.

I don't think the Indians were going to offer Jimenez a multi-year deal anyway, but Hoynes used the Lincecum deal as a vessel to get his point across. I understand that's your issue with it. That's a fair point.

Somebody in the organization may have said something to Hoynes in hopes that Jimenez and his agent either agree to the QO or start testing the waters for a multi-year deal instead of waiting for the Indians to make an offer.

Hoynes pays enough attention to know all the possibilities? I guess he gets credit for doing his job to the bare minimum.

He doesn't even explain why Lincecum's contract means Jimenez won't get an offer from us. We're just supposed to guess at the rambling thoughts in Hoynes' head?

I'd guess as well that the Indians want Jimenez to turn down the QO and go test the market, but if Hoynes was actually told something to that extent, why would he talk about it being risky to make the QO?

This is, all in all, a complete bullshit report. It may be true that the Indians aren't interested in playing the market on Jimenez. But there's not even a suggestion that he was told something, we're just all supposed to realize the consequences of Lincecum's deal on us. And pup already pointed out the logic in his no long-term deal but maybe no QO either. I'm guessing I'm saying, what's the point in Hoynes having a job if he can't tell us more than the most basic info you can get anywhere, and he doesn't actually provide info from sources inside the team?

Because Hoynes is the perfect employee for an enitity who's business model in 2013 is "Yesterday's News in your bushes."

Anyone workin' hard in that business the last few years has been workin' hard to move out of newspapers - especially dead ones.

The Indians mulling over whether they want to pay one of 2013's best pitchers $14MM in a one year deal when there's a 99% chance he rejects it and you get a free draft pick. Some crack reporting by the PD as usual.

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

Keep reading Corey Hart's name as a potential target for the Tribe this offseason. He's stated a preference to return to Milwaukee, but he could potentially be a great fit for us. He missed all of last season due to knee injuries, which obviously is bad from a risk standpoint but great from a cost standpoint, as it means he could be willing to do a short one or two year deal in an attempt to regain value again. His OPS in 2010-11 were virtually identical (.865 to .866) and 2012 wasn't far behind (.841), with 30 home runs. Slugged over .500 three years in a row.

Unfortunately, due to his knee issues, playing right field again is probably a stretch, so he'd be limited to first base, sliding Swisher to right. (Not ideal, but do-able, although his shoulder is a concern.) Rotate the DH/1B at-bats between Hart and Santana, and plug Swisher in on days Santana catches, and playing time wouldn't really be an issue. From all indications, he's a good teammate who would fit in well with the team and, most importantly, give us that right-handed clean-up hitter we need. Not young (will be 32 when the season starts), but hardly over the hill, either. And if he's at first or DH, age isn't that much of an issue, anyway.

Potentially very affordable, right-handed power bat looking to regain his value? I'd say he's right up this team's alley.

If I had to guess, I'd say they did it now as a professional courtesy. He was obviously going to be non-tendered in a couple months anyway, so why jerk him around until then? This way, he's got the entire offseason to latch on somewhere and maybe even find a better opportunity than what would be available in January when a lot of the free agent money has already been distributed.

I'm half joking, but I am a little pissed at the rat bastard for heading off to greener--and richer--pastures. He gave us two years of suck, cost us so many big moments and key games, then gets it together and finally becomes the pitcher we thought we were getting, just in time to cash in big. If he had any gratitude, he'd at least accept the qualifying offer and give us one more year to reward our patience, especially since he was about one bad start away from being DFA early in the season.

Adverb Harry wrote:I'm half joking, but I am a little pissed at the rat bastard for heading off to greener--and richer--pastures. He gave us two years of suck, cost us so many big moments and key games, then gets it together and finally becomes the pitcher we thought we were getting, just in time to cash in big. If he had any gratitude, he'd at least accept the qualifying offer and give us one more year to reward our patience, especially since he was about one bad start away from being DFA early in the season.

Like I said, I'm kidding. But not completely kidding.

At least he put it together in the year that it mattered, even if the playoff trip was just one game long.

WiscTribeFan wrote:Agreed. Mechanics are only half of his issue. Once he starts to put pressure on himself to justify some ridiculous contract, the mechanics problems will follow...

Oh yeah. A well-compensated Ubaldo, no longer pitching for the security of an upcoming contract, with an over four-month layoff to get all the many moving parts of his delivery out of whack? This could be interesting.

Adverb Harry wrote:I'm half joking, but I am a little pissed at the rat bastard for heading off to greener--and richer--pastures. He gave us two years of suck, cost us so many big moments and key games, then gets it together and finally becomes the pitcher we thought we were getting, just in time to cash in big. If he had any gratitude, he'd at least accept the qualifying offer and give us one more year to reward our patience, especially since he was about one bad start away from being DFA early in the season.

Like I said, I'm kidding. But not completely kidding.

I agree, but I'm just pissed - and not "a little" and not "kidding". You would think the Tribe would be shown a modicum of appreciation for helping Ubaldo get his stuff together but instead it's "show me the money". I doubt he'll keep it together when he has to adjust to a new team and city. And NO Callaway to straighten him out. Callaway has to be a big part of the pitching staff's success this year. At this point I couldn't care less if Ubaldo goes or not just so long as his next team keeps their paws off of Callaway.

I've tried 'em all, I really have, and the only church that truly feeds the soul, day in, day out, is the Church of Baseball.~~~Annie Savoy-"Bull Durham"

So far the Indians have handled all of their decisions in the smartest way possible. Didn't want Kazmir to take the QO and then leave next year if he has another good season. Jimenez won't take the QO and we'll get a draft pick off somebody. Jettisoned Perez so they aren't paying 9M for a malcontent closer. He's a good reliever, but he's not great.

Hope they can make a competitive offer to Kazmir, but he's easily the best left handed starter on the market right now.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Commodore Perry wrote:The thing about Ubaldo, is that Ubaldo didn't fix Ubaldo. A very patient and coddling Indians coaching staff did. And that still took 2 years.

When he takes the mound for the big market team that will gamble on him, he will fall apart again.

So where's the guarantee that he would remain "fixed" if he loyally stayed here?

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Commodore Perry wrote:The thing about Ubaldo, is that Ubaldo didn't fix Ubaldo. A very patient and coddling Indians coaching staff did. And that still took 2 years.

When he takes the mound for the big market team that will gamble on him, he will fall apart again.

So where's the guarantee that he would remain "fixed" if he loyally stayed here?

Exactly. As far as I'm concerned, I don't want him to be "loyal". That 2nd half of the season sure was great, but after suffering through the rest of Ubaldo's stay in CLE, I'll take the 1st round pick and try to forget that whole trade ever happened.

The whole "Ubaldo owes us" argument is ridiculous. Ubaldo fulfilled his contract and he doesn't owe the Indians a damn thing. I'd love him back but there is no reasonable argument where the guy should forgo millions of dollars out of some sense of obligation or guilt because he didn't perform well for part of his time here.

I wish him luck wherever he lands.

ETA - Not that any of us in the peanut gallery actually know, but my uninforn=med guess is that 90% of what fixed Ubaldo (if that's what he is) is Ubaldo. Advice and the watchful eye of his coaches I'm sure helped. And to say it would be more important to keep the pitching coach than a FOR All Star pitcher is kind of silly.