OBI56 wrote:.....In reality that Probe is nothing more than a rebodied Mazda MX-6 ......

As a proud owner of probably one of the last MX-6's to roll off the line (a 1997 1/2.....in a color not offered, with some Millenia parts, hence the 1/2) I like the way you worded that. Since nowadays Mazda has become mostly a division of Ford, some might have said the MX-6 was a rebodied Probe

OBI56 wrote:.....In reality that Probe is nothing more than a rebodied Mazda MX-6 ......

As a proud owner of probably one of the last MX-6's to roll off the line (a 1997 1/2.....in a color not offered, with some Millenia parts, hence the 1/2) I like the way you worded that. Since nowadays Mazda has become mostly a division of Ford, some might have said the MX-6 was a rebodied Probe

Actually, both generations of the Probe and Mazda MX-6 were completely Mazda engineered products with Ford's only responsibility beign the interior and exterior styling for the Probes and building the plant. Interesting side note: the Probe was supposed to replace the Mustang back then but due to numerous protests by classic Mustang owners, the Mustang continued being built for over 15 more years before beign replaced with the current version.

RichP714 wrote:....Actually, both generations of the Probe and Mazda MX-6 were completely Mazda engineered products.....

Yes, but sadly, I don't think that's the case since Ford has bailed out Mazda twice now. My wife had a Mazda Tribute; the first day it threw a belt tensioner on the parking lot....stamped on the part.....FORD.

Which brings a question....was the 3rd gen Mazda RX-7 the Carver of the auto industry?

RichP714 wrote:....Actually, both generations of the Probe and Mazda MX-6 were completely Mazda engineered products.....

Yes, but sadly, I don't think that's the case since Ford has bailed out Mazda twice now. My wife had a Mazda Tribute; the first day it threw a belt tensioner on the parking lot....stamped on the part.....FORD.

Which brings a question....was the 3rd gen Mazda RX-7 the Carver of the auto industry?

What I said ONLY applies to the Ford Probe/Mazda MX-6. The Mazda Tribute was a 100% Ford engineered and built product as are the B series pickups. Ford and Nissan also had a similar agreement to build the Nissan Quest/Mercury Villager back in the 90s. Nissan supplied the engines and transmissions, Ford supplied the rest. Guess who supplied the 95% of the failing parts and assemblies that plagues these vehicles and which parts almost never failed?

The 2 bailouts you mention were decades ago and at a time when the US dollar was king and the Japanese Yen was in terrible trouble. Chrysler also bailed out Mitsubishi several times during those days as GM did for Saab, Suzuki and Subaru. The irony of it all is that if it were not for Mazda and Volvo, Ford would be in bankruptcy today and closing down.

As for the RX-7, I have some very specific opinions on that particular vehicle, several freinds having owned them. The 3rd gen was so optimized for speed and performance that they took way too much out of it that it ultimately compromized things like solidity and reliability. From tinfoil body panels that would warp and buckle from mere handwashing to engines that blew up seals to devilishly complex twin turbos that baked themselves to death to electricals that shorted out and caught fire; my friends loved the car despite all of its problems. When they worked, they were magic. Thank god Ford never got their hands on these...

Just because SOME Ford and Mazda products are excellent, both of them make a few lemons. Just like in the Audio industry. It isn't because a specific brand name is on a product that the product is either perfection or pure crap.

OBI56 wrote:.....As for the RX-7, I have some very specific opinions on that particular vehicle, several freinds having owned them. The 3rd gen was so optimized for speed and performance that they took way too much out of it that it ultimately compromized things like solidity and reliability. From tinfoil body panels that would warp and buckle from mere handwashing to engines that blew up seals to devilishly complex twin turbos that baked themselves to death to electricals that shorted out and caught fire; my friends loved the car despite all of its problems. When they worked, they were magic....

Thanks for the info....didn't know about most of this re reliability. Very sweet design though I'd heard that it was a case of be careful what you wish for, in that even the touring package suspension was so stiff as to be uncomortable....basically a performance vehicle not a road car.

RichP, the RX-7s were great cars with a few annoying problems but even those problems were not enough to prevent older owners from buying new ones when the 3rd generation came out. And the problems with the 3rd gen didn't prevent them from buying RX-8s either. Just goes to show how much crap or crappiness some people will put up with and STILL be loyal beyond reason to something.