I know Obama has a nearly impossible task, dealing with Blue Dog Democrats and crazy Republicans -- from Wild Bill Kristol, chickenhawk, telling the GOP to "go for the kill" and do whatever it takes to defeat Obama on healthcare, to Sen. Jim DeMint's similarly sinister prediction that if Republicans defeat Obama on healthcare "it will break him." GOP zealots are clearly more interested in killing or breaking President Obama -- politically, of course; I don't think they are assassins, personally -- than helping Americans get the healthcare they need. It's a little creepy, but once you've watched a crazy "birther" hector moderate Republican Mike Castle about Obama's birth certificate and other related delusions -- well, then nothing Republicans do can surprise you.

The Democrats have dumped a drastic, complicated health care bill on us and they are ramming it through before we can even figure it out. That's what matters, not the fact that the party out of power is squawking about it.

How much more evidence is required to make the final determination that liberals and their big brothers, the leftists are some of the dumbest, shallow-thinkers on earth. What's disastrous at this point is Joan Walsh's horse-blinders being permanently affixed to her empty skull as this the Empty suit-in-chief drives this country into a multi-trillion dollar wall. Did Ms. Walsh somehow forget how Cap & Tax was not read by idiot leftists in congress and rammed down our throats and left to the senate? And now she wants people to stand up with President Barely to ram down another piece of legislation that no one has read, much less the fool-in-chief, and pass it because for some reason, these idiot liberals have decided that kneeling at the altar of health-care is so important and compelling. Does this moron not understand what the government will start doing in the name of healthcare? That they will start to define what healthcare will become, which is something that will neither be Canadian or UK style, but something totally different? What are these morons really trying to defend? Well, what any pathological liar does. Create more lies to hide and explain away the previous lies they told before.

Is this anything new? It's exactly the same matrix of media and parties and operatives we saw before everyone rushed on to authorize the Iraq invasion, then the Patriot Act. This is yet another big, complicated thing that no ones understands; posturing and placing oneself in the right place politically is what matters to these people, and the friends they have in the press, whether it be right-wing radio or left-wing bloggers, play along. Meanwhile, once again, as in the other examples, we get steamrolled into a quick decision on things that truly need more reflective analysis.

If Obama thinks this turns around the sinking support for health care, he's crazy. This is desperate, not smart. This turns on the activists who reach the already-secure votes for whatever has Obama's imprimatur.

(Axelrod might be giggling maniacally, but that's not a joystick he's holding. He's in deep reverie about the hot babe he slept with, last year...what happened to her? Ohgodohgod shewashot.)

Obama needs to convince people of his plan on the merits. I don't think anyone thinks, "I used to care about the deficit and what would happen to my insurance, but the hell with that! DeMint said 'Waterloo!' To the battle stations!"

Yep. That's what I would like to see. And to assess it against other systems, seeing what's worked and what hasn't. And just slow down a bit. And be able to answer direct questions about specific provisions. If he can't do that, I don't care what political posturing is involved. It's just another clusterfuck.

"President Obama, presumably you have made a study of the health care systems in England, France and Canada. Many think they are better than ours, but obviously, there are not perfect. What are the most negative features of each of those countries' health plans, and how will your plan avoid those pitfalls?"

I'm reminded of an exchange (of sorts) between Milton Friedman and Naomi Klein I watched on You Tube.

Milton Friedman had made the assertion that people often do bad things when they are trying to do good things.

Naomi Klein responded that, DUH!, people do good things when they try to do good things.

It's this sort of thinking... that desires drive results... that we're dealing with.

Friedman, a brilliant man, saw the truth clearly that good intentions had no relationship whatsoever to the real consequences of policy decisions.

But it doesn't take a brilliant person to see this, does it. All it takes is a child and her first object lesson somewhere around the age of three where the best possible intentions end in disaster. We learn early that "she meant well" or "his heart was in the right place" are phrases that only ever accompany disaster.

So what is it with people like Naomi Klein and so many others who somehow get to adulthood and decide that grown-up problems no longer are subject to this very basic rule?

Klein is (supposedly) an economist yet seems to think that good intentions drive results.

Which I suppose is how she can manage to be an avowed leftist (as opposed to liberal). On her planet people who want to do good things, do good things and never bad ones.

They don't EVER break irrevocably a toy they were trying to fix.

Joan seems not to comprehend the idea that anyone could oppose Obama's health care reform unless they are opposed to "helping Americans get the healthcare they need." It's a given.

Because if their *intentions* were good there is no doubt they'd support this bill... which *must* be a good bill and which will certainly not lead to all these dire things that crazy people are squawking about.

Not particularly to pick on him, but Robert Cook here seems to have the same attitude. There is no question of "will it work" or "what if something turns out really *bad*" because the intentions are good that is all that matters, and single payer would be even better.

These horrible republicans just refuse to trust the man, when goodness positively radiates from his half-african pores. Why should he have to read the legislation? why should congress? where is the trust? where is the love in these squawking, shriveled-up Republican souls?

Here's the thing: if the Democrats are united, they can pass any bill in Congress they want. Any bill whatsoever.

Blaming Republicans for the Democrats' failure to pass bills into law is an embarrassingly laughable fiction. Come on, Obama. Is this really the best you can do?

The truth is that there must be a substantial number of Democrats who intend to vote against these atrocities. The reason must be that they do not want to lose their jobs in 2010, or that they simply think the atrocities are atrocities, or both.

Promises and good press and good feelings only take you so far. This is why candidacy is so much more fun than leadership, and courtship so much more fun than marriage.

They interpreted it as a backhanded way of saying Obama is like Napoleon ("Hey Birthers, did you know Boney wasn't native-born French? Take it and run with it"). Sort of like Godwin's Law, only I claim it as Crimso's Law: As an internet discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Napoleon approaches 1. DeMint would have been better claiming it as Obama's Battle of the Nations (or Battle of Leipzig) if he wanted to keep the Bonaparte reference, but it would likely have left all but the grognards scratching their heads. One of the books I'm currently nearing the end of is 1100 pages long and guess what it's about. On another thread, I think it was Robert Cook that made a comment that said even tyrants do some things that are good. I immediately thought of Napoleon.

I think it's silly to argue that. I heard Rush Limbaugh saying today that the system was just fine. I think we could all agree it doesn't need a major overhaul, but it could really use some major improvements.

I don't like to look to politicians for problem-solving, but there are some onerous laws the gov't has imposed on the system that could be removed. The republicans really should be suggesting ways that some of the damage could be un-done. Otherwise this issue will never go away.

Let's see, the President has a filbuster proof Senate, a +60 seat margin in the House, a favorable press, a fawning Hollywood, a supportive academia and Walsh complains about some goofy statement by an obscure Senator from somewhere.

Pathetic.

It's a shame isn't it? that everyone in America plays politics except Walsh and the progressives.

The biggest improvement for most people would be the ability to buy health insurance across state lines. It would vastly increase competition and lower prices.

That Democrats won't even consider incremental steps is proof that this isn't about improving healthcare: it's about increasing government control over the economy.

If we had tried these common sense steps and they failed, then that's a different conversation. But we haven't. And that Obama voted against all of them as a senator and that Democrats won't consider them now is telling indeed.

I disagree. We have an excellent medical system. The best improvements would to REDUCE the amount of government interference (such as the inane narcotics control system in place and making way too much drugs prescription only.)

What's telling to me is that most people really like their current level and type of care. They just think everyone else has lousy care, thanks to highly negative and one-sided reporting.

If the Democrats were united there would not be any such creature called "Blue Dog Democrat" who could just easily run with a (R) if it were more convenient to do so. Let's face it, Blue Dogs and moderate GOPers are the same thing. It's the extremists on both ends that cause all our problems.

Your assertions would be valid if we didn't have the experience of fifteen years ago to go on. Rather than making any serious attempt at reform the GOP and their allies back then went to a plan of delay, dither, raise endless objections and essentially talk the plan to death, while simultaneously the insurance industry spent many millions of dollars stampeding the public against reform-- any reform at all, in fact in that Senator Mitchell finally had to announce that there was NO plan that had the votes to pass.

Given that experience it is not hard to see why Obama wants to put this through by the August recess.

Senator DeMint is just putting out there in a direct quote what the plan of the GOP is-- not to try and fix a system in which people's lives are literally bought, sold and traded off as a commodity-- but to inflict a defeat on the President no matter what the cost to the public overall with continuing with a system which is the most expensive in the world and which more and more people can no longer afford to live in.

Taking time to try and reach an agreement with conservatives was a fatal mistake made by the Clintons in 1993-1994, so whether Obama will be successful in 'ramming it through' or not, at least he realizes that politically it would be stupid to slow down and let the conservative opposition to real reform (and yes, that includes not only Republicans but also Blue Dogs in the House and finance committee chairman Max Baucus in the Senate) dictate the pace and terms of the debate.

Lots of long-winded defenses of Obama and his plan as well as attacks on GOP bogeymen known only to the voters of their state.

All a complete bunch of BS. Obama and the Dems own this bill and everything in it. All the GOP can do is delay it long enough so that enough people in this nation will read it.

If the Dems truly want reform, then tackle some easy things making self-bought insurance tax deductable and passing tort reform that will allow doctors to quit doing CYA tests that provide no medical benefit and only jack the cost. Those two things will knock 10-15 percent of the cost out of the system and don't employ a single bureaucrat, hospital admin staffer or limit the options of a single American. It's not perfect, but that bill would get most of the GOP and Blue Dogs to vote for it.

If you are a gov't employee and support the Obama plan then you are full of it. You will never be subjected to it and you and your union will scream bloody murder if it is proposed that you do.

I never said it didn't. In fact, I pointed out Jim DeMint's bill that does just that.

It's also worth remembering that Bush attempted to allow small businesses to band together to qualify for group insurance rates: bringing down health care costs for the large number of Americans employed by small businesses. But Democrats opposed the bill because they wanted to preserve the high cost of healthcare as a campaign issue.

Democrats have never been for actual reform. They have always held out for single-payer. To hear the Leftists here claim that the system is broken and therefore their option is the only one available is a flat-out lie.

They are the ones who broke the system by always standing in the way of any attempt to let the free market work. They are the ones who created the Medicare/Medicaid system that systematically shortchanges healthcare providers so that everyone else has to pay more. They are the ones who would rather have campaign issues than come up solutions.

Much more delay, and the table will have to be folded and the cons quickly depart.

Hopefully the police will arrive shortly and the dealer and his shills will have taken off before they have had a chance to fleece their marks.

Looking this up the other day on Wikipedia, I ran into a link to Soupy Smith, who did most of his cons in my native Denver, before eventually absconding to Alaska, where he met his unfortunate demise.

It appears that he was able to utilize the police at times to forestall troublesome marks from causing too much trouble after being hit by the scam. The timely arrival of the police would allow him and his shills to disappear.

The President seems to be trying to fire up his original base to get petitions signed supporting the health care reform bill (that he doesn't seem to have studied or read, but has taken ownership of, regardless).

That just reminds me of running into some ACORN types at the Denver airport a month or two ago. One of them walked up to me, and very kindly asked me to sign his petition. I asked what was it for. He said health care reform. I asked what plan were they pushing, and he wouldn't answer that question.

Then, I began making a scene. It felt great. I yelled at him about destroying the best health care system in the world, just so he could get free health care. I suggested that he get a real job, that had health insurance benefits. That would be better for him, and, more importantly, for the country.

I have a loud voice, and it apparently unnerved him a bit. He tried to tell me that I was harassing him. I responded that he walked up to me and started it. He got his supervisor over (also in his early 20s), and he tried to calm me down, and then started threatening me about the harassment. He suggested that they would call the cops. I responded, that, fine, do it, and we would see who would win that one. They had started it by walking up to me as I was minding my own business. They quickly almost ran away then, and that was that. It felt great, and I may have kept a couple of other marks from signing their "petitions".

Democrats are scared to death of passing ObamaCare on a party-line vote for fear of making themselves a permanent minority.

Without Republican votes, they will own every single cost overrun, every single person denied treatment, every single bit of waste and fraud, every single bureaucratic snafu and every other negative consequence of ObamaCare. When doctors retire rather than keep working at unprofitable wages, when our best and brightest avoid the medical field like the plague because the government has ensured there's no financial reward for entering it, when the inevitable long waiting times appear, when innovation and the discoveries of new drugs and treatments grinds to a halt because there's no way to earn back the costs of the R&D required to develop them, when every conceivable thing that can go wrong actually does, they will own every single solitary piece of it.

They don't want to own it because even they understand what an unmitigated disaster it is destined to become. They need Republican cover to get this thing passed. That's what's is really holding up this bill.

Democrats could pass it if they wanted to without a single Republican vote, but they know they'd be committing collective suicide if they do. And say what you want about politicians, they're going to look out for #1 first and foremost.

Where did they rush on to the Iraq attack. They went to the UN, they talked about it for several months and then they voted on it. THis one has been talked aoub tin general but the specifics are just now being put together and they are slamming it through as if we will all die if they don't pass it.

Looks to me like Obama's healthcare folly is going down. And the dems know he is an empty suit, along with every world leader from Israel to Iran. The world leaders and the house speaker have taken his measure and understand Obama is all blow and no go--his approval numbers are declining, and the house dems especially know Obama isnt going to help them in the 2010 elections. They go for their own survival first.

Welcome to the presidency Mr. Obama--Hope its working out well for you!

We all understand, don't we, that the dems control the government--republicans, even voting as a bloc, can do nothing. In fact, it is Obama's own party in congress that is derailing his healthcare folly. So blaming republicans is a rather hollow bunch of bullshit.

And thank goodness it looks like there is a chance this game might be exposed, Pogo. I really don't know what to owe that to - but DeMint has to get some of the credit.

Anybody read about the "death with dignity" parts of the bill for seniors? I'm chilled by it, because just going by what's already been said it sure seems like the elderly are going to be pressured to do their duty and die. We're all going to get old.

We know nothing about this bill. But it's horrible. Horrible horrible.

That's right garage. Any piece of legislation that is going to have such far reaching implications on individual health care not to mention tax implications and the people supposedly in charge of it don't know whats in it, is by definition, horrible.

That's the great irony of liberals Pogo. They will implicity agree that Government is your friend and here to help you and just trust them.

EXCEPT

when it comes to National Security. Then the Government is not there to help you but to take away all your rights, listen in your most private and intimate phone calls you have with your cousin Achmed in Wherethefuckistan and throw you in a secret prison in Transylvania. Then we need complete transparency and the names and addresses of all covert agents listed on the front page of the NY Times.

The Hurricane Season from Africa is doing more damage faster than Bush ever did with his Katrina attack on New Orleans. Our jobs market are now flooded underwater, and Obama's friends in Congress are the looters roaming the Parrish going around to the undefended homes. They are so successful, that they are planning serial Huricanes as we speak: A Taxation hurricane to eliminate all remaining economic activity in America by destroying the Power System, and an Illegal Medical Care Hurricane to blow away the current great health care system enjoyed by Americans. It is truly a Hurricane season and looter season like none ever seen before. But what a smiling face we get to see in charge of these Hurricanes.

"The Hurricane Season from Africa is doing more damage faster than Bush ever did with his Katrina attack on New Orleans."

That's dishonest. Democrats were running the state and the city. They took all that money they were making off the tourists and spent it, spent it, spent it while pocketing all the loose change in their corrupt pockets. They knew the levees were inadequate for more than 40 years and never spent a dime to do anything about it.

They bungled the response, and then tried to blame Bush for their own failures. Bush's biggest failure was not showing up immediately on the next news cycle and biting his lip a la Clinton.

We're still waiting for Obama to actually say something publicly about the killing of a military man by a crazed Muslim attacker...All he's managed to do is put out a weak-tea late night printed statement since then, and that was a month ago.

Regarding the Dems trying to rush something through, the solution to that is for regular citizens to form into groups, come up with questions about the plan, and then go ask political leaders those questions to their face on video. Engage them in debate, show how they're wrong. Videos like those would be big hits on Youtube.

Your question is right, but not your answer. It wasn't just a few months, it was the entire 12-year cease fire between the cessation of hostilities of GW1 in 1991 and the resumption in 2003. Slowest "rush to war" I've ever seen!

To put it into perspective, 12 years prior to the start of WWII (arguably 1939, though the earlier Ruhr and Sudeten stuff really should have received an Allied response) takes us to 1927. Anybody think the start of WWII, and the way it went, was obvious in 1927? A dozen years prior to 1914 takes us to 1902. Queen Victoria had just died, Edward VII was king, and the first round of globalization was in full swing. Nobody could have predicted August 1914 from that vantage point!

But the fact that Sadaam would eventually have to be dealt with was obvious to anyone with eyes and a brain; the only question was whether actual fighting would be required or whether time or finesse could somehow dislodge him.

That's dishonest. Democrats were running the state and the city. They took all that money they were making off the tourists and spent it, spent it, spent it while pocketing all the loose change in their corrupt pockets. They knew the levees were inadequate for more than 40 years and never spent a dime to do anything about it.

Also keep in mind that LA was apparently the largest recipient of Corps of Engineering money on a per capita basis. There was plenty of money available to rebuild those levies, and they were at the top of the Corps list. BUT their (most Democratic at the time) Congressional delegation diverted the money to other projects (i.e. earmarks).

I hope that people with common sense will get out there and fight against this bankruptcy path that the president seems to be on, but truthfully, i think the common-sensers are far behind the 8 ball on this. the obamaminions are going to be out in full force on this and cap and trade. i think people are naive as to how many organizations and affiliated leftist groups are going to be joining together to push this garbage through. people really need to get organized and get active NOW. the left has been doing this for decades; the right is going to have to play catch up.

"The Democrats have dumped a drastic, complicated health care bill on us and they are ramming it through before we can even figure it out. That's what matters, not the fact that the party out of power is squawking about it."

"Democrats are scared to death of passing ObamaCare on a party-line vote for fear of making themselves a permanent minority.

They don't want to own it because even they understand what an unmitigated disaster it is destined to become. They need Republican cover to get this thing passed. That's what's is really holding up this bill.

Democrats could pass it if they wanted to without a single Republican vote, but they know they'd be committing collective suicide if they do. "

Never fear, Jim. Olympia Snowe and Sue Collins will be along to help shortly. And good old Arlen...oh, wait, that won't work now will it. Maybe crusty old John "Hands across the aisle" McCain can stand in for him. Whatever, the bipartisan "Take Your Medicine" show will start on cue.

It is sad to see all the hand wringing - we all knew that this was going to come. A "health care reform" bill with a public option will be passed by the end of this year unless moderate Democrats raise their concerns in a serious and principled way - of course, using the words "serious and principled" with politicians is naive - I am hoping against hope that this madness is stopped.

Write to your Congressmen and women about the concerns that you have - bombard them with e-mails and phone calls - simply flood their switchboards with complaints - that's the best we can do at this point.