Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!

I've been thinking about replacing my old 65" RPTV with like a 70" LED, Never really thought abut a projector but stumbled across this forum and, well you know Now I'm wondering if a projector would work for my room. I'd could probalby save like 40-50% by going projector and screen over buying the TV and get a bit bigger screen than 70". The details are:

20ft Long
10'8" Wide
7ft floor to ceiling
Primary seating is 4-7ft in from furthest wall from TV and current TV screen is 2.5ft from the opposite wall. By those figues I guess seating is like 13-15ft from the screen of the TV. WIth a projector it will be like 15-17ft viewing distance. All sizes approx. Just above the seating area are 2*34w flourescents bulbs in a fixture. That is the only light source in the room. Unless specifcally watching a new movie in which the lights get turned off the flourescents are on for watching things like sports, news, HBO, etc.

Is a projector a consideration with the lighting? I figure the projector to be ceiling mounted approx. 11-12ft from the screen. As for the screen I figure a 80-85 inch diaganol. If a projector works in my situation would that size screen work as well? If all was good would the Benq W1070 be a good choice for projector? Screen suggestions?

Well, I knew the paper wasn't going to be black with the lights on. It is darker than if right in front of me. My question is really how good or bad would the picture look with the lights on? The projector/screen route would get me a bigger screen than if i just purchase an LED TV but at what cost to viewing with the lights on.

Lights can be turned off or shaded from the screen or dimmed. I think the bigger issue is the color of the ceiling and walls since the room is small. If the ceiling is white it will destroy a projected image.
td

just my opinion, but I wouldn't bother with a projector unless you go 100" plus.

80-85" isn't enough of a step up in size to deal with the limitations of a projector.

I've had my screen up against a white ceiling for a couple years. it matters, but it doesn't 'destroy' the picture. compared to a good plasma, sure, the blacks are gonna be pretty unimpressive. compared to a cheap LCD, probably on par. you can go with a grey screen to help combat some of this as well.

I think what you really need to decide on is if you really want to make this a dedicated 'theatre'. with the price of bulb replacements, and how sensitive the picture is to the room, it's hard to justify using the projector for anything 'casual'. I still have a tv in my room, with a motorized screen that comes down in front of it. most of the time I just watch the tv, and save the projector for 'movie time' or if i'm gaming with some friends. when I just want something on in the background while I get some work done, the projector doesn't make a lot of sense.

if you want a quick guestimation of how dark black will be, take an average power LED flashlight and shine it on your room with no other lights on in the room. figure that represents the approx. light that would bounce back off your screen on the ceiling. if it completely lights up your room, the flashlight might be a tad bright, but i'm sure you'll be able to clearly see the screen. with projectors, black is as much about removing all excess light in the room as it is about the projector.

these are some pics of my first projector on a white 120" screen with lights on just bright enough you could read. i'd say it's watchable, but not very enjoyable. try watching a movie like batman under these conditions and you'd probably get pissed off and stop. watch something bright and cartoony and you might not even notice.

I've since changed to a grey screen, flipped the room around a bit, and have the roof painted dark for the 4feet in front of the screen. the lighting for the room is only on the opposite end directly over the seating. I find doing those things as increased how much light I can have in the room before it noticeably ruins the picture. still wouldn't be doing any critical viewing with the lights fully on, but i'm able to play video games with enough light in the room to still feel like a normal 'gaming session'.

My thoughts on the projector/screen was the savings and screen size. A 70" LED up here in Canada is going to cost me like $3500 tax in and delivered. A projector and maybe an 80-85 inch screen costs maybe half that. I knew that the flourescent lighting would be an issue just not sure how much of an issue it would be. The walls and ceiling are beige like in colour. Guess I'll go back to looking at a TV instead.

My thoughts on the projector/screen was the savings and screen size. A 70" LED up here in Canada is going to cost me like $3500 tax in and delivered. A projector and maybe an 80-85 inch screen costs maybe half that. I knew that the flourescent lighting would be an issue just not sure how much of an issue it would be. The walls and ceiling are beige like in colour. Guess I'll go back to looking at a TV instead.

Thanks

i'm from canada as well. the screen/projector combo above cost me about 1500. it is in no way comparable to a 1500 TV imo.

you can't think of it that way. you need to think of how you will use it. not that LED's are known for stellar black levels, but there will be a lot of things that 70"LED does that the projector will not, and in all honesty, i think you'd be lucky to get equal performance out of the projector under the best of conditions

my thought, which was similar to yours with a twist, was that instead of spending 3grand on a humongo tv, i'd spend about 1000 on a nice smaller tv(50") and spend another 1000-2000 on a projector and get the 'best of both worlds' for less money.

i have to admit, it didn't exactly work out that way, i recently bought a 64" samsung f8500 because i was tired of the lousy picture on my cheap 50" plasma, and now i'm looking to upgrade the projector because now that i've seen the f8500, i can't even watch the projector it just makes me mad because now i know what i'm missing in those shadows

I may be in the minority here, especially this being AVS, but I find that quantity has a quality all it's own. My fiddy inch plasma has a better picture than my 106in projector, no doubt about it. But if I were forced to part with one, it would be the plasma without a second thought.

The old RPTV is 65" so no way anything I get can be smaller. Plasma won't work as image retention is a big concern. I watch lots of news and sports. That leaves me LED. Though I'd love to get larger once you go over 70" it gets a bit to expensive for my liking. As for projector screen size, I could go over the 80" diaganol if I was to rearrange some furniture. I think It's really the flouresents that are the issue. What will regular watching look like with them on. Maybe I replace them with something else. Unfortunately I don't own any kind of projector or know anyone to borrow from. Renting could be a possibilty. In all likelihood I'll just get a TV and put the projector thoughs off till another time.

The old RPTV is 65" so no way anything I get can be smaller. Plasma won't work as image retention is a big concern. I watch lots of news and sports. That leaves me LED. Though I'd love to get larger once you go over 70" it gets a bit to expensive for my liking. As for projector screen size, I could go over the 80" diaganol if I was to rearrange some furniture. I think It's really the flouresents that are the issue. What will regular watching look like with them on. Maybe I replace them with something else. Unfortunately I don't own any kind of projector or know anyone to borrow from. Renting could be a possibilty. In all likelihood I'll just get a TV and put the projector thoughs off till another time.

Thanks again

not to stir the pot, but to inform. i'm using my plasma as my computer monitor right now. you need to be REALLY sensitive to IR for it to be a concern these days.

but for the sake of further discussion, if I forced to decide between edgelit LED and projector, i'd take the projector. from my experience the LED will look great in the bright light conditions, but pretty terrible in the dark(unless you get full array or similar quality with dimming), and the projector will look really washed out in the bright conditions, but good in the dark. I do most of my viewing in the dark, so I really feel I 'need' good dark room performance.

also, i'll try to take some shots of my screen with all the lights on for you. not a photographer so it might take some trial and error to get an accurate representation.

ok, I guess i'll just post links to most of the pics, don't want to annoy ppl, but I snapped about 10pics under different lighting conditions,

first, the projector is Epson hc720(by all accounts a very entry level projector in today's market). the screen is a cheap motorized grey screen with a gain of 0,8 and is 100" diagonal.

first is with all my lights on: two 50watt pot lights at the front (one burned out in the middle, haha) and 3 50w pot lights in the back over the seating area. both sets of 3 are on independent dimmers.

Is this your home? Is it your dedicated viewing room or is it a rec room or is it a family room?

Why does the space matter? Because if it is in your basement and you go down there for quality TV viewing, then you have choices that you should make. All of which require some consideration IMO.

PROJECTOR:
Yep, you can do a projector. Throw up a 92" diagonal screen, maybe even 100". It's going to be close to the floor, but you'll have room and it will work well and look great... if...

If you paint the room darker. Not beige - but dark brown. Dark grey or brown on the ceiling. I'm thinking you have ceiling tiles instead of a drywall ceiling, but either way, get $100 in paint and you can improve any projected image by a great deal. Room color is the #1 impact on image quality in an otherwise dark room.
If you swap out that light or come up with another lighting solution. The photos above are pretty good, but I set up a similar demonstration in my old family room setup using a projector that was not very bright at the time...http://www.avintegrated.com/lighting.html
You can see how directional lighting, when added to a room, allows hundreds of watts of lighting to be added to the room with minimal impact on the screen.

FLAT PANEL:
The Sharp 70 display doesn't hold a candle to the 65" Panasonic plasma or the 64" Samsung plasmas.
What in the world are you talking about with image retention? Plasmas don't have much in the way of image retention as they suffer from uneven phosphor wear.
The on/off pixel response time far exceeds what LCD delivers (LED or traditional)
This means that they are better for... (get ready) ...watching sports and anything with fast motion in it.

The conerns - reflections - which it doesn't seem like you have to deal with.
Image burn-in. This occurs when you pause a TV show and then fall asleep - for several days. Seriously, I've had plasmas for 9 years and have had zero issues with this and I use my TV normally... my wife uses it excessively! Video games by my kids, AppleTV, media player, hours of God of War, hockey (Go Caps!), etc. You name it, we run it through the plasma, and at no point has burn-in ever presented itself as any type of issue. Image retention either. They are certainly POSSIBLE - but it takes active abuse, and your mention of sports and news is the opposite of abuse or anything which will hurt the image. I strongly suggest you do more research on this.

LCD - Does not look as good as plasma, and Sharp, while I think they are decent looking, don't look as good as Samsung or Sony does for LCD, and it costs a fair bit more to get Sony or Samsung above 65". I would stop with a Samsung 65" LED/LCD if I had to go the LCD route, but there is no chance I would in your situation and with what you are viewing.

What would I do in your situation? Hard to say. I certainly would not stick with the lighting I had in the room. More accurately, I would add some wire spot lights or something similar which were far more directional than a fluorescent tube in the room. Turn the tubes off, and go with the spots when I wanted light in the room when watching on my 92" setup. I would paint the walls dark and the ceiling dark... If none of that was going to happen, then I would get a 65" Panasonic ST series plasma and be completely psyched on that. I would not consider LCD.

Not at all - anything that helps people understand is important and matters. I got sick of people asking about lighting over and over again at Projector Central's forums, so I just set up a photo shoot one night and put it on my website. There are no links to it at all from my main website, but I use it all the time when people start asking about room color or lights in a room.

That room has... 13 (???) lights in it. The perimeter lights are over the couch only and on a separate dimmer from the central lights and the fireplace lights. They are all mostly tight beam spotlights. The projector there is a Panasonic PT-L300U (not AE3000!) which was about a 2002 or 2003 model projector or so. Maybe 300 lumens on a .8 gain screen. Since that photo shoot I moved the entire setup to a more light controlled basement setting (similar lighting, darker walls/ceiling) and then sold my home with the projector in it. I now am using the W1070 on a 161" diagonal screen in an unfinished basement. I'm building a lift, then will likely get some black sheets to hang on the ceiling and walls to help improve how things look down there.

Overall, in all of this, the importance is that to get the really big screen a projection setup can deliver, you have to put in some actual effort for best results. You don't just get to hang a projector, hang a screen, and walk away. You get good results doing that, but nothing like what a good setup can deliver on.

Within common flat panel sizes, I'll take a smaller yet better plasma over a larger but inferior LCD every time. But I'll take a "good" humongous front projection image over both because it provides something that the other two lack in comparison- immersion. Have you ever heard of anybody that's regretted going to fp?

As I said (at least I think I did) my goal is to get a bigger picture than I could afford buying just a new TV. The room is in the basement. It's the only room in the house I can smoke in so let's call it the man cave (though it's not that nice). Old house and i believe the ceiling is concrete. Walls are fake wood panelling. I'm in the room a lot. At the far wall is a desk with my PC on it. I usually sit there and manouver myself (turn my head, angle the chair, etc) so I can see the TV which is always on when i'm on the computer. This is like 90% of the time. So 90% TV watching (which can include movies) but if there is must see movie (like 10% of the time) I do turn off the lights and computer monitor.

Some say they have IR issues with plasma while other don't Not sure what to think about that and not really here to debate it. I do know the plasma will give the better picture. I do not like reflection off the screen which would be an issue with plasma (never seen one with a matte like scren) and maybe with and LED depending on how matte I can get the screen. I had the screens moved on the RPTV so to cut down on reflections. It's a lot more matte that it was when first purchased. This was all due to the flourescents so changing lighting would help with glass like screen on a TV

I guess my first move should be to change room lighting regardless of whether I go projector or TV. Also have to find an electrician as electrical is not my thing and I'm not comfortable working on this type of thing.

I don't know if this will help in your decision, or just confuse you more but I was playing around with my f8500 today. I have a 10million candle power spotlight(basically equal to one HID headlight from a car). It was the closest thing I could find to simulate sunlight, not really the same I guess, but crazy bright nonetheless. anyway, the filter on this screen really is quite amazing. with the light sitting next to me on the couch, shining on the tv, it's exactly how you would expect it. a crazy bright, washed out spot on the screen. but if I move the light closer to the tv and angle it up or down at the tv, it's almost like it's not even on. this intrigue me further, so got up and moved the light slower from directly in front to directly underneath, aiming the light at the centre of the screen the whole time. it's very clear the filter only works vertically, but it is quite amazing. was a strange affect to say the least.

anyway, overhead lighting might not be an issue with this tv, BUT if that lighting is on the opposite side of the room, or on the walls, basically anywhere other than over top of the tv, it will act like normal glare off a screen. it's been my experience that most of the better LCD's have glossy or semi-glossy screens anyway. the matte screens don't provide the same clarity, and AR coatings have gotten much better.

but you are right, some adjustment to your lighting might be the best thing for now. in a basement you should be able to control most if not all of the light, and if you don't have to worry about reflections at all it really opens up the possibilities. and hey, projectors are only going to get better and cheaper, if you get the room set up for it, you can take that step in another couple years if you want

another thing to maybe look into, and it might a little too early to adopt, is the LED/laser based projectors. they don't offer the same PQ as a good bulb based projector but they have 10 000-20 000 hrs lamp life with less drop off in brightness overall. it's a projector I wouldn't worry about using daily, and leaving on for hours at a time even when i'm not really paying attention to it. benq makes a half decent one that I've seen selling for as little as 1300CDN. it's marketing more as a presentation projector though, so I imagine blacks won't be that impressive.http://www.visionhd.ca/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=35&products_id=150

Going to change the lighting in the room. Not sure exactly what I'm changing it to yet but hope to have it done within a month or so. Also, I think a 110' diaganol screen is the way to go. Based on my room size would the Benq W1070 be a good projector to get? How far back from the screen should the projector be mounted on the ceiling? Any screen suggestions? Since the screen will be the only thing I view anything on would a fixed screen mounted to the wall be the way to go?

Going to change the lighting in the room. Not sure exactly what I'm changing it to yet but hope to have it done within a month or so. Also, I think a 110' diaganol screen is the way to go. Based on my room size would the Benq W1070 be a good projector to get? How far back from the screen should the projector be mounted on the ceiling? Any screen suggestions? Since the screen will be the only thing I view anything on would a fixed screen mounted to the wall be the way to go?

Thanks

That's a great plan - I would recommend at least two zones of lighting and using decent recessed ceiling cans, or something else which provides 'directional' lighting in the room. One zone will have just a few lights directly above and slightly behind the main seating area on dimmers. These are the lights which can be on/dimmed during sports and other non-critical viewing times. The second set of lighting can be everywhere else. I typically have over a dozen ceiling cans in my theater designs if possible to allow for plenty of light where I need it most.

For a screen, I am a big fan of Carada screens - www.carada.com - They only make fixed wall mount screens, and you definitely want a fixed wall mount screen as it gives you the highest quality for your money. If you can't swing Carada, then you may want to look at Focupix screens at www.htdepot.com which offers a very affordable screen which is of decent quality. Worth saying that a screen, in theory, is a long term purchase which should last 10-20 years or more if treated respectfully, while a projector is typically a 5-10 year purchase.

Finally, the BenQ W1070 is a solid first use projector. It has the brightness to deal with some light on better than some of the more 'dedicated' models of projectors.

For all measurements, going from the Projector Central website, here are the numbers... Note - all distances on all projectors are measured from the front of the lens, center of the lens to screen.
Throw distance: 9'2" to 12' (110" diagonal)
Projector lens must be about 3" above the top edge of the screen when ceiling mounted.

NOTE: Make sure you plan where the projector is going so that the ceiling mount does not interfere with lights, or vice-versa.

agree with above. installing a second 'zone' of lighting so that I could control the lights over seating independently from the lights near the screen was the best thing I've done for lighting. in a larger room you might want even more zones, but i'd definitely consider 2 the min. think of it in terms of what lights you want on while watching(zone 1) and what lighting you need to make the room bright the rest of the time(zone 2).

fixed screen is your best choice. pretty much every other option will get waves in it, even the tensioned screens aren't perfect forever. right now I have an electric screen that rolls down in front of my plasma. when I get a fresh start at a new home I want to find a way to use a fixed frame screen. even if it means getting a lift to raise lower the plasma instead.

If recessed lighting won't work what is the next best suggestion? The house is is like 60yrs old and not sure the space I have in the ceiling. The kitchen is right over the room and things like chairs moving, people walking, etc. are quite loud. For all I know there is no room for recessed but then again, what do i know. I'd also like to keep the cost down as much as possible. Would tracks be an option. One across the back of the room where the computer desk is. One on each side of the room closer to the screen. All with like 3 lights. All tracks on seperate dimmers.

I'm in Canada and not sure I could get Carada or Focupix screens up here. I don't even see a Focupix in a size I'd like. I could order Carada from the US but I'm sure shipping wouldn't be cheap, not to mention brokerge charges, etc. Any other suggestions? I am going to get a quote on a Carada Precision. Should I be getting the Classic, Brilliant, or Grey?

Regarding screen size, I may have to go smaller than 110". Floor to ceiling is 84" A 110" diagonal screen is 54" tall. That leaves me 30" to play with. I need about 24" off the floor for the bottom of the screen so that leave me 6" to the ceiling. Not sure I could get the projector lens at the optimum height above the top edge of the sceen as i'm guessing the mount would also have to accounted for. Thinking a 104-106" diagonal would be a better fit. It's only 51"-52" high leaving me 8"-9" to play with for the lens and mount

Edit 1: Ok, no need for a shipping quote from Carada. They acutally list the cost. It's $107.28US. Not sure if that includes brokerage and duty. I'm sure I'll have to pay tax on it up here but that'snot different than if I purchased it here. I also have to add like $50 for currency conversion. hmm.......

Edit 2. OK, don't laugh. Here is a pic of the current room, taken from about 12' from the screen. Crappy cell phone pic. It's darker near the TV than it shows.

Yes, the blinds are orange and the right speaker is not in it's proper place. With the projector and screen the 2 racks are going. Well, the one on the left will move againt the left wall. I'll buy some sort of stand (which is why I need the 2ft below the screen) to put the equipment and centre channel speaker on.

Having seen the pic am I still doing the right thing in getting a projector? If I do go for recessed lighting and by looking at the pic where do you think they should go (keep in mind there is like 6ft behind not showing in the picture)

how about track lighting? i think the goal in terms of performance is to be able to aim the light at the viewing area and not at the screen. any kind of directional overhead lighting should be able to do that. recessed pot lights just look a whole lot sleeker...

as for screens, being in canada you may want to look up eastporters. they are ontario based and offer some nicely priced screens. i do not have any personal experience with their screens though, they seem to run the full range from cheap to quality. customer service has been quite good. i've bugged them for a few things, and even though i only just ordered my first product from them last week, they've been very helpful in the past.

106" might be a good choice, also consider viewing angles if you have more than one row of seating. due to an overhang in my room, i was forced to mount my 100" screen quite low. on 16:9 content i can only see the bottom of the screen if the front seats are reclined. the bottom of my screen is only like 18" off the ground

also, getting away from that light ceiling(i think it's light colored?) will help the blacks in your picture as well. so even if 2feet is high enough, 6" might not be low enough.

As others have said, you'll need a couple hundred bucks for paint and supplies to darken the room. Given that low ceiling, I'd go dark grey or brown, I'm not a fan of black in low spaces. The paint could also be a nice spruce up if you find something you really like. Make sure you use flat paint to knock the sheen down.

In terms of lighting, I'd think directional track or spot lights would be the best bet. I'm sure you could find something for $400 or less installed that would be a big improvement. Something as simple as this:

Any lights that are directional are acceptable. The typical is the recessed light, but you want to focus on directionality first, and aesthetics are entirely up to you after that.

Keep in mind, directionality ONLY matters for the lights which will be on during the movie watching. So, you could use track lights (or similar) over the seats and leave the florescent lights in place for when the projector is off. I've used wire lights personally for some things I've done which have looked pretty nice, but be aware that you want to ensure that whatever lights you get are dimmable. Low-voltage lights are not all dimmable, or may require a dimmable transformer.

I would recommend that you consider moving all the stuff away from the front screen wall except for speakers and the screen. Lights & such really become a distraction with a projection setup and there is no reason you must have them right at the front of the room. Off to the side is a good alternative if you can work it in your room. This way, your screen isn't pressing against components and you are building to match what you should get, not around what your forced into.

Having seen the pic am I still doing the right thing in getting a projector? If I do go for recessed lighting and by looking at the pic where do you think they should go (keep in mind there is like 6ft behind not showing in the picture)

Squiigly, I'm about as cramped in my paneled room as you and I'm using a projector with a tripod screen.

After more than a year (of owning my Focupix screen), I finally hung my screen and projector.

Definately getting rid of both fluorescent fixtures. The one near the TV must go and time to get rid of the one at the other end of the room. Still decding on recessed or track. I do like the track idea as it will save me a good chunk of change. As I said, one track to replace the computer FL, that should light up that end of the room and then one track on each side to replace the back Fl that never gets used. All on dimmers and we're good. Or blow the bundle and put in 8 recessed

I figure the projector to be on like 50 hours a week. Guess I'll have to budget a new bulb like every 1.5 years or so

I may hold off painting for this year. At least see what it looks like and go from there. Maybe put blackout sheets or whatever if necessary for this year. Any suggestion on that?

As AV said, the screen is a long term purchase so may do it right and get the Carada. If Carada, Classic, Brilliant, or Grey? I did check out easporters and their screens are more expensive. Anyone hear of EluneVision

As for the stuff currently on the racks at the sides of the TV i will move the left rack up against the left wall and somewhat away from the back wall. I will take the equipment off the right rack and figure to put them on a small stand that can go beneath the screen. Is that not a good place for them? If I put it against either wall I may have issue with remotes, no? When I run HDMI cables to the projector is there a way to make it look decent?

i would agree that the RIGHT screen should be a long term purchase, and can last you for many projectors. but i'd caution you that it's pretty difficult to get it right the first time.

the size is the biggy, but getting the right aspect, color, and gain make a huge difference too. if you've going to try and get 'the screen' right away, i'd suggest getting as many samples as possible, and not just buying based on a brand name. if nothing else, at least you'll begin to appreciate why expensive screens are expensive and feel more confident in your decision 3yrs from now when you wonder if a higher gain would have been a better choice, or if you should have gone grey or black, or ...

my first screen came free bundled with the projector. i'm very happy it did because it gave me something to use while i figured out what i really wanted, and what i could possibly save some money on.

as for eastporters, their reference screens are kinda pricey, but they make sub $500 ones with decent quality too. they have been distributing elunevision for a long time and you can find a lot of feedback if you search around here actually