Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to North America. For those looking to relocate within the US or Canada, discuss your experiences and pros/cons of each domestic region.

Interesting thread. I can see why someone might consider Mormon women. I wouldn't because I'm a Christian, and their religion is weird.

Way back in the time of Joseph Smith and especially Brigham Young, their lives were probably a lot like what you see in a documentary about Warren Jeffs from one of the Mormon offshoots where they give the influential old men in the church other men's wives. I read a bit about Joseph Smith. Apparently, he was caught with a teenage 'wife' of his, doing something. At one point, folks were trying to talk the doctor into castrating him. That's right before the paper of the town he was a mayor of printed a bad story about him and he declared martial law. He was arrested on some minor charge after that, which was changed to treason, a capital crime, after he was in custody. Someone snuck him a pistol and he died in the fight that ensued when the mob came for him. I wonder if some of those folks who had wanted to castrate him were actually Mormons.

He'd 'spiritually marry' women. They say he prophesied that his son Joseph would succeed him, and that a certain plot of land was the place for their temple. So after he died, the church split up. The big group ended up following Brigham Young into Utah. There was a court case between the two religious organizations over who got the plot of land for the temple. During it, someone asked one of his spiritual wives if he had relations with her. She said something along the lines that if they thought that, then they didn't know Joseph Smith.

One tactic was to send the husband away on a mission and then spiritually marry his wife. I read that Smith had secretly spiritually married one woman while her husband was away. Then Brigham Young took over, and he said that whatever was Joseph Smith's belonged to him now, and took the woman into his harem and sent the poor husband away sad on a mission.

Maybe this is why Mormonism has turned to be so pro-family and tried to promote the pro-family image. They had some really messed up family lives for so long.

From what I've read, it sounds like he'd 'spiritually marry' some old dumpy looking woman who he'd have help him 'spiritually marry' the younger ones. This was kept kind of secret at first. He had all these secret wives. The Doctrine and Covenants has this prophecy commanding Emma to forgive her husband. The Book of Mormon says it was a sin for David and Solomon to have many wives. The Doctrine and Covenants says that it wasn't.

Joseph Smith was supposed to have gotten the Book of Mormon by miraculously translating some gold plates (that no one else actually got to see.) Someone asked Joseph Smith to use his ability to translate like this to translate the Kinderhook plates, that look like little bells with squiggles carved into them. After he did, they exposed that they had made these things themselves and carved some squiggles on them. One of them has turned up and experts confirmed that they were made in the 1800's. Smith also used his same ability to translate the plates to translate some Egyptian document. It was lithographed into a publication back then. He said it was about Abraham and had a long story about it and included it in the Mormon canon. The document wasn't destroyed in the Chicago Fire, so it turned up a number of years ago, and it was the Egyptian book of the Dead.

The religion is full of nonsense, Masonic handshakes, etc. I've got some Mormon relatives, kind of distant relatives. One of them is the result of a union between a step-dad and step-daughter and was raised thinking her mom was her older sister. She has a reputation for borrowing money and not paying it back. When I was like 8, she took some of my toys to sell at the flea market and said she'd give me the money for it. I never saw the toys or the money. She had a daughter who was a chunky butch lesbian who brought another chunky butch lesbian with her to my grandmother's house, which was a bit of a family scandal one day.

The other Mormons I've met from Utah tend to be clean cut, 1950's American types. Lots of them are nice people. I think they have different kinds of weddings, and they allow for divorce from a certain type of wedding. Also, when you are a part of a group that exerts that much control, if they tell your wife to leave you, it could happen. In the offshoots, the leader will just steal wives away from one man and give them to another. If the 'prophet' says it, they treat it as law. The LDS organization is probably not going to do something as shocking as that.

If you marry into this, you are going to have to put up with all the in-laws actually believing a lot of bunk all the time. There will be pressure to pay 10% to an organization you realize is promoting lies, and they actually have meetings between members and the bishop about whether they tithed. I asked a Mormon accountant about how they do tithes, how they count it, and he said they were flexible. They have apparently very detailed rules about what goes on in the bedroom as far as what's allowed for married couples, too. Then if you marry into it and don't believe in it, they'll want you to pay to send your kids on missions. If they are sending girls, that doubles the costs.

MrMan wrote:Interesting thread. I can see why someone might consider Mormon women. I wouldn't because I'm a Christian, and their religion is weird.

Way back in the time of Joseph Smith and especially Brigham Young, their lives were probably a lot like what you see in a documentary about Warren Jeffs from one of the Mormon offshoots where they give the influential old men in the church other men's wives. I read a bit about Joseph Smith. Apparently, he was caught with a teenage 'wife' of his, doing something. At one point, folks were trying to talk the doctor into castrating him. That's right before the paper of the town he was a mayor of printed a bad story about him and he declared martial law. He was arrested on some minor charge after that, which was changed to treason, a capital crime, after he was in custody. Someone snuck him a pistol and he died in the fight that ensued when the mob came for him. I wonder if some of those folks who had wanted to castrate him were actually Mormons.

He'd 'spiritually marry' women. They say he prophesied that his son Joseph would succeed him, and that a certain plot of land was the place for their temple. So after he died, the church split up. The big group ended up following Brigham Young into Utah. There was a court case between the two religious organizations over who got the plot of land for the temple. During it, someone asked one of his spiritual wives if he had relations with her. She said something along the lines that if they thought that, then they didn't know Joseph Smith.

One tactic was to send the husband away on a mission and then spiritually marry his wife. I read that Smith had secretly spiritually married one woman while her husband was away. Then Brigham Young took over, and he said that whatever was Joseph Smith's belonged to him now, and took the woman into his harem and sent the poor husband away sad on a mission.

Maybe this is why Mormonism has turned to be so pro-family and tried to promote the pro-family image. They had some really messed up family lives for so long.

From what I've read, it sounds like he'd 'spiritually marry' some old dumpy looking woman who he'd have help him 'spiritually marry' the younger ones. This was kept kind of secret at first. He had all these secret wives. The Doctrine and Covenants has this prophecy commanding Emma to forgive her husband. The Book of Mormon says it was a sin for David and Solomon to have many wives. The Doctrine and Covenants says that it wasn't.

Joseph Smith was supposed to have gotten the Book of Mormon by miraculously translating some gold plates (that no one else actually got to see.) Someone asked Joseph Smith to use his ability to translate like this to translate the Kinderhook plates, that look like little bells with squiggles carved into them. After he did, they exposed that they had made these things themselves and carved some squiggles on them. One of them has turned up and experts confirmed that they were made in the 1800's. Smith also used his same ability to translate the plates to translate some Egyptian document. It was lithographed into a publication back then. He said it was about Abraham and had a long story about it and included it in the Mormon canon. The document wasn't destroyed in the Chicago Fire, so it turned up a number of years ago, and it was the Egyptian book of the Dead.

The religion is full of nonsense, Masonic handshakes, etc. I've got some Mormon relatives, kind of distant relatives. One of them is the result of a union between a step-dad and step-daughter and was raised thinking her mom was her older sister. She has a reputation for borrowing money and not paying it back. When I was like 8, she took some of my toys to sell at the flea market and said she'd give me the money for it. I never saw the toys or the money. She had a daughter who was a chunky butch lesbian who brought another chunky butch lesbian with her to my grandmother's house, which was a bit of a family scandal one day.

The other Mormons I've met from Utah tend to be clean cut, 1950's American types. Lots of them are nice people. I think they have different kinds of weddings, and they allow for divorce from a certain type of wedding. Also, when you are a part of a group that exerts that much control, if they tell your wife to leave you, it could happen. In the offshoots, the leader will just steal wives away from one man and give them to another. If the 'prophet' says it, they treat it as law. The LDS organization is probably not going to do something as shocking as that.

If you marry into this, you are going to have to put up with all the in-laws actually believing a lot of bunk all the time. There will be pressure to pay 10% to an organization you realize is promoting lies, and they actually have meetings between members and the bishop about whether they tithed. I asked a Mormon accountant about how they do tithes, how they count it, and he said they were flexible. They have apparently very detailed rules about what goes on in the bedroom as far as what's allowed for married couples, too. Then if you marry into it and don't believe in it, they'll want you to pay to send your kids on missions. If they are sending girls, that doubles the costs.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints(Mormons) claim to believe in Jesus Christ so what's wrong with that? Having lived in Utah for 3 years, I can safely say Mormons are much more stable than your average "Christian".

However, "Beta Male of the Year Award" definitely goes to Mormon men. The media portrays Mormon men as being dominant, aggressive men that constantly try to control their wives, nothing could be further from the truth. Its very rare for them to stand up to their wives, who generally treat them like shit. When a Mormon woman doesn't get her way she'll usually flip out and then go to church and tell everyone what happened.

“Every time a President leaves the White House after two terms, there is a recession within the next year"

I'm watching a documentary now about the Mormons from the PBS series American experience. It's four hours long I think, and very informative and in depth. You can find it on YouTube by searching "Mormons American experience".

Josephs smith's story makes no sense. Why would god put gold plates on a hill in America written in Egyptian hieroglyphs for him to translate? How would a simple farm boy translate Egyptian hieroglyphs? Yeah right. Smith claimed a seer stone gave him the power to translate anything. Uh huh. And where are those golden plates today? How come no one else has seen them?

Also why would god or angels go through that much trouble? Why don't they just write the book of Mormon for him and throw it in his lap and tell him "here you go"? Can't god do anything?

And why would god or angels tell him to promote polygamy so that the whole society condemns them and turns against them? Making unnecessary enemies is a foolish and stupid thing.

Finally, if joseph smith really is a prophet of God, then why did God allow a mob to go to his prison and assassinate him? If God doesn't even protect his own prophets then why would anyone trust him or preach for him? It doesn't make sense. Surely the faithful deserve better than that.

The whole story is way too suspect and implausible to take seriously. Maybe smith was deceived if he wasn't making it up. Who knows.

Btw their teachings state that the Garden of Eden where Adam and Eve lived was in Jackson, Missouri. Haha. Who would take that seriously?

I don't get the appeal of this religion and why people would give up everything and be willing to die for it.

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

I've heard good things about Mormon girls from other people--and even from an Asian guy--who is a Mormon married to a White women. The only thing is...I consider their religion to be blasphemous and totally cult-like in behavior, as bad as Scientology and Islam.

If you are not yourself a member of those cults, you are an outsider, these women will not accept you, Mormon and Scientology are 'modern' religions, same with the Jehovah, and in Japan we also have cults like the 'Happy Science'.
Islam is a different matter, but I am not a Muslim and will never be one, and about Christianity of any form, I do not believe in any religion. You can find women who are not religious but not bad either. To be a good or bad woman has little to do with religion, just my opinion.

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

Believing PBS is about as much merit as believing the make believe book there talking about that formed the Mormon sect. Have you ever seen the PBS news on 9/11 ?

I really have a hard time with anything today in the mainstream because they are trying to use the bible as one of the prongs to get WW 3 going.

I'll take a look at it. as though anybody would care.

Interesting read, religion in my book is just another layer of crap to fu ck reality up and this thread proves my point. A system such as the LDS is only going to make the women even more crazy than they already are. Men are probably even worse however, they invented that stupid piece of chit known as the glorious bible and the surrounding books that go with that these cults are based on.

Winston wrote:I'm watching a documentary now about the Mormons from the PBS series American experience. It's four hours long I think, and very informative and in depth. You can find it on YouTube by searching "Mormons American experience".

Josephs smith's story makes no sense. Why would god put gold plates on a hill in America written in Egyptian hieroglyphs for him to translate? How would a simple farm boy translate Egyptian hieroglyphs? Yeah right. Smith claimed a seer stone gave him the power to translate anything. Uh huh. And where are those golden plates today? How come no one else has seen them?

Also why would god or angels go through that much trouble? Why don't they just write the book of Mormon for him and throw it in his lap and tell him "here you go"? Can't god do anything?

And why would god or angels tell him to promote polygamy so that the whole society condemns them and turns against them? Making unnecessary enemies is a foolish and stupid thing.

Finally, if joseph smith really is a prophet of God, then why did God allow a mob to go to his prison and assassinate him? If God doesn't even protect his own prophets then why would anyone trust him or preach for him? It doesn't make sense. Surely the faithful deserve better than that.

The whole story is way too suspect and implausible to take seriously. Maybe smith was deceived if he wasn't making it up. Who knows.

Btw their teachings state that the Garden of Eden where Adam and Eve lived was in Jackson, Missouri. Haha. Who would take that seriously?

I don't get the appeal of this religion and why people would give up everything and be willing to die for it.

The truth is always inflammatory and unbelievable that's why most people prefer watching documentaries on PBS. The CIA took over American TV in 1961.

Al Sharpton was the last guy I remember that publically criticized Mormons after which he apologized to avoid a lawsuit.

One of my coworkers is Mormon. Really nice guy. I tried to get into the religion with him. Went to church and bible study a few times.

In the end, I just couldn't get passed even the first chapter. I don't understand why they idolize Joseph Smith. He seems like a con man to me. So if I can't even believe their main prophet, I don't see how I could legitimately become a Mormon. Though, I think the women in that religion are among the best that the US has to offer.

Taco, Joel Osteen took a lot of flack and lost a lot of respect from Evangelical Christians over that.

Christians believe in one God, that Jesus is the Word of God, and the Son of God, and in the Spirit of God. Mormons would say that God the Father used to be a man on another planet and that Mormon men can become gods of their own planets. They don't believe that everything was created through Jesus, as Christians do, (where it says that all things were made by the Word in John 1.)

Joseph Smith claimed to have translated from gold plates, so someone came to him with these bell looking things, the Kinderhook plates. They hired him to translate the symbols on the plates. He translated them to say that the author was a descendant of Ham through the loins of Pharaoh of Egypt. But the plates were fake, and in recent times they were discovered and analyzed to show they were made in the 1800s.

Smith also translated a scroll that was actually a version of the Egyptian book of the dead as the book of Abraham. They published a lithograph of the art on the scroll. It was lost after a fire, but recovered in modern times, and it turned out to be the book of the dead, not what Smith had translated it as and included in the Mormon scriptures.

There are plenty of accounts of Smith 'marrying' women secretly. He had older women who may have helped him recruit the teenage wives. If I remember right, he'd marry other men's wives while they were away on a mission. Brigham Young, I read, claimed to have inherited one of Smith's wives, and took her and sent her real husband away on a mission.

At one point before Smith dying at a shoot out at the prison, with a pistol in his hand, a mob had him and was ready to castrate him over something. They tried to talk a doctor friend of his out of it. He managed not to get castrated. I wonder who he was sleeping with that time.

He claimed he did polygamy after an angel had threatened him with a flaming sword about it.

So I guess he slept with all those girls because of the 'flaming sword' problem.

Taco,
Yeah PBS is controlled like anything else on TV. But their documentary about Mormonism is neutral. It is not pro or con. PBS has no vested interest in that religion. The documentary is presented in a neutral factual way.

It even talked about the Mormon massacre on meadows hill in 1857, which the Mormons are trying to forget. It happened on 9/11 in 1857, ironically. During a land dispute, a group of Mormons killed 120 men, women and children in cold blood. It's never been explained as to who ordered it.

Perhaps the secret societies like to commit ritual sacrifices on 9/11. Joseph smith was involved in freemasonry for a while to learn their secret rites. So maybe there's a connection between secret societies, new religions that divide mankind, and ritual sacrifices like meadows massacre and the New York city attack on 9/11, which both occurred on 9/11.

Maverick,
Yeah I don't get it either. How could so many people give their lives for a region whose founder was very shady and seemed like a con man? Why do they trust him so much? What's so special about him? Maybe he had a lot of charisma, like Jim Jones.

Worldtraveler,
Polygamy is not officially sanctioned or practiced by Mormons anymore. However some reactionary Mormons still practice it because they believe that since it was a divine revelation to joseph smith, that it must be God's commandment, so they should obey it. But they have to do it discreetly by moving to small remote towns away from society.

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World

I have a friend who says in the 1800's, he had some ancestors who wanted to go to Oregon. They set out with a well supplied wagon train, but decided to take a route that went through Utah and up north through California. The Mormons were suspicious of them for some reason and sent Indians to kill them. After a shoot-out with the Indians, the folks in the wagon train saw the white Mormons coming for them and were all happy and relieved at the chance to get assistance. Then the Mormons shot up the settlers.

My friend says his ancestor was a boy at the time. A Mormon family took him in. In the Spring, he stole a horse to head to California but got caught and punished. Some time later, he headed out with news of what happened, and that's how the news got out.