shel wrote: There's over four decades worth of documentation, from various witnesses. It would be idiotic to discount that evidence and see for myself.

However, even his harshest critics say he's the real McCoy as far as realization and teaching Zen. To me, that only speaks to what realization and Zen means today, which is to say that it is rather meaningless.

4 decades and never jailed? Perfect! sounds as if the USA is a lawless country. As for zen being meaningless, well your posts show it clearly, then why are you so concerned? Specially if you keep theravada view? If so all zen right from its beginning should be meaningless for you.

shel wrote: There's over four decades worth of documentation, from various witnesses. It would be idiotic to discount that evidence and see for myself.

However, even his harshest critics say he's the real McCoy as far as realization and teaching Zen. To me, that only speaks to what realization and Zen means today, which is to say that it is rather meaningless.

4 decades and never jailed? Perfect! sounds as if the USA is a lawless country. As for zen being meaningless, well your posts show it clearly, then why are you so concerned? Specially if you keep theravada view? If so all zen right from its beginning should be meaningless for you.

I don't dictate what realization and Zen means, Matylda, no one person does. It means whatever those who call themselves Zen Buddhists decide, and if they decide that a demon from hell can show the path to liberation and enlightenment, well, that means something.