NBC Kicks Off HEROES’ Fourth Season Monday!! Were Screeners Sent Out?? Can The Cheerleader Be Saved??

I am – Hercules!!
NBC sent out screeners for “The Office,” “Parks and Recreaction” and even “The Biggest Loser” but I think – THINK – this is the first “Heroes” season premiere that was not sent to any member of the press for review. Are we to assume then that tonight’s two-hour fourth-season debut is no good at all?
The fact that the series’ best writer – "Dead Like Me"/"Wonderfalls"/"Pushing Daisies" creator Bryan Fuller, who penned "Company Man" and "Cold Snap" – departed the “Heroes” staff (for the second time) in mid-June does not inspire confidence.
People are still watching “Heroes,” we just don’t know how many. While ratings have been plummeting for at least two years now, I sat in a huge San Diego ballroom this summer full of fans who screamed quite loudly as series star Milo Ventimiglia made his entrance.
It’s going up against the two-hour season premieres of two much healthier shows – “House” and “Dancing With The Stars” - as well as the season premiere of “Two and a Half Men,” which is TV’s highest-rated sitcom, so it's probably fair to expect some ugly numbers landing in the Peacock executive suites Tuesday morning.
Depending on the quality of tonight’s installment, this may be my last “Heroes” post ever. Take up valuable bandwidth with your predictions and reactions.
8 p.m. Monday. NBC.

...so that it can die. I like Heroes. I like its concept. I like its idea. I like the actors. I like what the crew - the people we don't see - do with the show. But I don't understand the quality control. I don't understand why the writers keep on coming up with nonsense week in week out. I don't understand why someone isn't there checking to see for errors and mistakes. Is there an exec involved who won't stop butting in? Is that the problem? Is there no-one with balls enough to keep the writers in check? Is that the problem? Why is such a show, which could be great, be allowed to crash and burn so badly. I look forward to this season, as I expect it to be the last. But as a fan, I would like some answers. I would like someone on AICN to talk to the writers and find out what went wrong. I want to know, why no-one approached comic book writers for their insight - they could have changed the show...imagine Frank Miller or Neil Gaiman writing this show? Heroes could have been great, should have been great....but is sadly, not. I don't understand.

Heroes has already succeeded. Four years on network TV really is nothing to sneeze at even if it's slacking creatively and in the ratings lately. And I'm sure that its success has been a contributing factor for genre shows still getting greenlit on network TV.

... is that it's the TV show that no one likes to admit they see. Ratings are low, but internet downloads of the episodes are huge, so its popularity is undeniable. Till they give us another superhero drama, it'll work among fans. Jim Lee X-Men's was godawful (specially in comparison with Claremont's collaborations with Byrne and Paul Smith) but still sold millions.

We usually argue relentlessly, but I concur. This may very well be the last season. But the final half of S3 was very good, and 320-323 was fantastic. So there's still hope... even if it's a fools hope.

yeah and if they fucked up the hiro story (arguably the best thing about the show) well...you saw the rest.
<p>I'll watch the dvd if I come across anyone with it I guess. I realyl wanted to like this show. The first season was a good start.

They'd have had a strong central love story they could build on that would have helped get it attention and fans. Not that the focus would be on their relationship all the time but that kind of thing as an extra does sell tickets so to speak.<p>
Jeez it's impossible to talk about this show without slipping into a litany of everything they screwed up. Sorry guys.

That people really do want this show to good. The fans are rooting for it. The non fans want to like it. Somebody somewhere is beng a fucking idiot. With all the resources they have and it consistently disappointed. I don't get it.

They knew Claire and Peter were related from the start. One of the snags of the same cast every year, their core story rocked in S1 but past that... you're stuck with them being related and can't move past that.

I've dug the show for all three seasons (despite criticisms I have with it), and I do concur that some people want to like it... but after a point, I just have to shrug. <p> Is it as good as S1? No. But people make it sound like it's a Carrot Top vehicle.

That's right b-o-r-e-d.<p>There's zero character progression. Sure, there's character regression but no progression.<p>Hiro started as everyone's favourite geek but has now become the show's comedy element. His power wasn't thought out enough and so they actually took it away from him! So now he's just a whiny guy with a Japanese accent who says silly things all of the time.<p>Peter is the same douchebag we met in Season One, blindly stumbling through situations with that 'What the fuck?' expression on his face, only he's now less interesting due to his power constraints - a result of the same idiotical forthought as Hiro's powers.<p>Sylar keeps dying and coming back it seems. Sure, they gave him some backstory with his father but that was just a diversion so he didn't spend the entire season doing the same thing over and over again. Do people really like Sylar? I thought he was great in Season One when he was the faceless boogeyman freezing and burning his way through the 'superhero' population but now he's just a tired gimick.<p>Claire...ohmygod, Claire. She might be the dullest character on the show - well, she might be if Peter wasn't also in 'Heroes'. Everytime she's on screen, whining about why she can't have a normal life, i fight my own heroic battle against the tide of sleep.<p>Nathan dies pretty much every season simply because nobody likes the character, but the writers are too afraid to get rid of him.<p>HRG is the only character i've liked all of the way through the show. The actor playing him should be somewhere more suited for his talents.<p>Christ fuck, i really wanted this show to work. It had such a great idea and certain elements were brilliant (the way in which the episode names were written like comic book text for example, or the build-up to Linderman's reveal) but they've let me down pretty much three years in a row now. I feel like a rape victim who keeps crawling back to the rapist and asking for more. See what you've reduced me to, Heroes? Fuck you!

I don't accept that reason! There must be something - SOMETHING - that I'm not seeing about 'Two And A Half Men'.<p>It stars a complete fuckwit who writes imaginary interviews with President Obama, accidentally shoots his wives and takes drug overdoses.<p>It's about as funny as waking up to find someone's shat on your face.<p>The world has gone mad.

The characters certainly progressed as the show went on. If only Joss Whedon had been involved with Heroes. What an amazing show it might have been! (For the record, i dislike 'Dollhouse' and so i'm not a Joss Whedon Fanboy or whatever the fuck they're called - i simply refer to the fact that Whedon has a much firmer grasp on story and characters than anyone currently involved in Heroes).

Firstly, I hate Dollhouse. <p> Second, Joss and Tim Minear running Heroes would've been great, but it wouldn't have took off like the original did. </p> <p> Two and a Half Men... cocaine's a Helluva drug.

Then there's far too many housewives with white powder on their nostrils. Any world where 'Two And A Half Men' is the number one sitcom, is a world where the war against drugs has been completely lost.

It's an action show. There should be credible looking action on it. Whoever is in charge of the fighting should be shot. They lost me with the supposed to be EPIC but was really EPIC FAIL Sylar vs Peter brawl at Kirby Plaza. When the Sydney Bristow vs Evil Francie brawl shits on a fight between 2 super heroes, you have problems. <p>Season 2 was just silly with Peter's EXPLOSIVE CASE OF AMNESIA and the Cheerleader blood being a cure all. The main problem is that the writers just have way too many ideas that are somehow never true to the characters. Peter blows up a bank vault when he can walk through walls? Come on. <P>But again, this is all shit that has been talked about on here before, so I'm not saying anything new. The show should have really just started from scratch and pulled a "The Other 48 Days" and showed other folks developing their powers during the eclipse. But instead have them actually do things that Heroes do. Counting on Milo and Hayden to anchor a show (when they are arguably the 2 weaker actors in the cast) was never a good thing to do from the start.

Could have been a better show if Dushku wasn't the lead. She is great as a supporting character. But not a convincing lead. She isn't very likable aside from being attractive. Joss was ace on Buffy and Angel. But I'm not feeling Dollhouse. But it surprises me how many genre shows haven't thought to copy the very accessible Buffy formula of a big bad each season with many standalone and other episodes that progress to the Big Bad showdown in the finale. Buffy is a show that has a lot of annoying ass STAN's, but it honestly deserves more credit for really being true to it's characters for the duration of the time it was on the air.

Pushing Daisies got canned for a reason. Also, it wasn't that great of a shock Mika was Rebel and that Traci was going to die. That was set by other writers. The problem for last season was Sylar/Nathan fiasco and the lack of money to show the big fight. Lack of money due to fan bitching. Heroes is going to face not as bad competition with the early start. Plus, its the most illegally downloaded show on TV beating the beloved Lost and House. The ratings are down, because the fanbase is more media savy then the older people who watch Dancing with the Stars and House. I don't expect a huge number, but it will do better then Chuck which will be the choice at the end of the year. Chuck blows.

For some reason, even over here in the UK, this seems to be Comedy Central's (yeah, they screen it in this part of the world) most advertised show, with the ads even branding it 'the funniest show on television.' For fuck's sake, Comedy Central UK is the channel that ALSO screens THE OFFICE (US) and SOUTH PARK. The fuck is wrong with the world?!

It's simple, actually. NBC, the former top network for sitcoms, went in the crapper due to poor management. Meanwhile, CBS built Monday night into their sitcom night with shows like Everybody Loves Raymond. CBS becomes the #1 network and has remained #1 for some time now. Their Monday night lineup is the only successful night for live-action sitcoms on all of network television. Two and a Half Men is the night's longest running show and appeals to the widest audience. There you go - #1 sitcom.

I'm a fan of the show, and will gladly watch tonight's premiere. But I've heard people in the past say that this isn't the kind of show you can just walk into blind. Too much backstory.<p>So is it possible that, even if this is the best season of the show EVER, it's going to end up cancelled because it can't attract new fans, and lost many of the old ones?

It started off tacky and shitty. Right around the part where they had present Hiro (who sucks) meet future Hiro (who looked awesome) was it's high point. Ever since then it's been careening off the road, with terrible acting, nonsensical plot lines, irrational characters and declining production values. I don't think it can be saved. And it's almost amazing to think they screwed up a weekly show about super-heroes - it seemed like a full on home run idea when it premiered.

CBS programs shows that appeal to their older audience. Their older audience powers many of their shows for higher ratings shares. The audience for Two and A Half Men doesn't download the show on iTunes or on torrents. They watch when it is on. But the Neisen rating system is very flawed.

I agre with your statement generally, but TV advertising still accounts for the bulk of a revenue that a show earns (at least last time I checked) Therefore, it doesn't matter to many advertisers or the network whether Heroes has triple the total audience of 2.5 Men if it only has half the non-time-shifted TV audience.

It's kind of hard for me to judge this, since I've been watching since Volume 1. But thinking back to, say, Volume 4...if that had been by first glimpse of Heroes, I'd have had no idea who Doyle was, or what the deal with the glass shard melting in Sylar's head was about, or how Tracy was familiar with Micah.<p>I know the seasons are basically self-contained, but I'm just worried about them not being self-contained ENOUGH.<p>I don't want Heroes being cancelled, but it's stuff like that which makes me think it might be inevitable, regardless of quality.<p>I hope I'm wrong.<p>On an unrelated note, I'll check out that Daredevil thing when I've got the time. So thanks for the link.

Really now, Heroes with it's 'vision' of killing off a hero a week killed me off as viewer after the first season and every year they say they've 'gone back to the roots' of the show. But, those 'roots' were wrong to begin with, the reason it was cool the first year was because of what the viewers thought it could be and then when that never happened we wandered off. Who cares - the House season premiere is tonight! That show is worth watching, Heroes not so much.

The only time I liked Heroes was in the first season and even in that season the final few episodes sucked ass.
The Only reason I may consider watching this train-wreck is becoz of the prospect of some lezbo action between the cheerleader and the other girl.

I was in vegas at the back end of last year, and the small amount of tv that I did catch included trails for 2 and a half men, and the carrot top live show that was on at the time in the town. Now I love Americans and know that you guys are intelligent people, who can produce and consume such genius as Curb, South Park, The Office, The Simpsons etc, but FUCK ME 2AAHM and Carrot Top are some terrible shit. Forget anything socio-political, it is lapses like this that cause the rest of the world to think you guys are thick as shit. Make a stand for your own sakes, please.

I don't watch 2AAHM and Carrot Top needs to be shot, but I SURE as fuck don't care about what the rest of the world thinks about us.<p>
And Badia, don't waste your breath, Herc's too insecure about his sexual identity to watch a show with two male leads.

Season 1 kicked all sorts of ass up until the finale which I could still live with. Season 2 was like watching a turtle cross the road, and he gets to the other side. Season 3 I feel had so much wasted potential in favor of shock value, the second half shaped up and gave me the Heroes I longed for all these years, but they took too long padding the episodes out and as a result the conclusion feels rushed and entirely unsatisfying. With Season 4, I feel like there's some good potential here but they'll just plod and pad along as usual, and yet I'll be there every Monday night, until 24 anyway. I want to love this show so much, I already love the characters, but the stories are just, arg.

Touche' sir, though thanks to your country's relatively relaxed firearms laws, you are in rather a good position to shoot the aforementioned red headed c£$t. If you don't happen to have a license I would be willing to send cash to cover that and the gun.

Sorry, I have bailed on this. There are hotties in it (Ali Larter). It really isn't much. Liked the first season, and the finale, but it has been downhill ever since. Watching season finale of "Top Gear" and DVRing "House."

The Heroes series started to falter when they set up the Invisible Man character and then just abandoned that storyline. Up until then I think the show was amazing, but after that, the show has just been all over the place without a clear storyline driving the plot and characters forward. Was that the time when one of the original writers or showrunners left the series? It just seems like a glaring turning point from a creative standpoint.
http://nickleshi.blogspot.com

Heheheh.<p>In al seriousness Heroes is so bad that its crossed into the its so bad its entertaining realm. It's fun to pick it Heroes apart, true it is shooting fish in a barrel, but fun to do anyways.

And fast forwarding until I see something that looks remotely like action or one of the girls in a tight or wet outfit. I watched last season like that and it actually was fairly rewarding. Each episode lasts like five minutes and you can still follow the story.

Heroes generally does deliver a decent amount of action, but the first half of Season 3 seemed to be all about bringing out the effects because of fanboy bitching over nothing. The show clearly suffered even more. They blew their budget on the shitfest that was Villains and had barely anything left for Fugitives. The spectacular flashing blue lights behind closed doors in the finale had me in the bathroom cutting myself.

You know the only people that means diddly squat to? The advertising department on NBC because that's several hundreds of Americans they're not reaching meaning they're not making money from the people buying the advertising space.<p>Oh, you say, but it's not hundreds - it's thousands, possibly millions. Those people are on distant shores - places like the UK and Australia. Therefore, these people are an invisible audience because the advertisers aren't trying to sell them anything.<p>In short: the amount of people downloading this thing means very, very little.

but it conflicts with other shows on my DVR, so I've deleted the series recording. Was hoping to look in here occasionally to see if it's worth catching up on down the line, but I guess if it sucks tonight I'll never get to read about it again in a Talkback. So... Yay? :P
Harry's face is looking kinda gaunt in that Heroes corner animation thingy up there...

<p>The show started off with a lot of potential, and for a while there in the first season, it was starting to live up to that potential.</p>
<p>But the first season finale is where it all fell apart. After that, the writers seemed to have no idea what to do with the characters. It didn't help that the cast wasn't strong enough to make the ridiculous plot twists and bad dialog work.</p>
<p>I don't think it's possible to save the show at this point. Even if NBC dumps the entire creative team and pares the cast down to about 6 people, there's not enough left to salvage.</p>

First, get rid of nathan. Nobody likes him, and the writers obviously have no clue what to do with him. Second, MAKE SYLAR THE BAD GUY!!! The best thing about season 1 was sylar, he's a great bad guy. They've not had anyone as good since, and they've been wasting him. Take a cue from the comics, nitwits, make Sylar Magneto! Have him form an army of "bad" heroes and take it to the fucking man!! epic battle! or at least, epic tension! give peter back his full powers (as he's the only one who can really fight a full powered sylar) and have him form a group of "good" heroes to fight sylars army. this was attempted, albeit weakly, in season 1, which i think we can all agree was the best time of this show. Do it again, but better, and with more 'splosions. especially if this is gonna be the end of the show, please, give us a fucking epic battle where heroes die, and the fate of the future is in balance. marvels civil war, if you will. sylar as magneto, leading the brotherhood. maybe HRG as xavier ( i know, not a perfect analogy, but the closest we've got) planning and plotting and recruiting an army to combat the growing sylar/brotherhood menace. it could be awesome!

(wrong button) also, please don't stop giving us talkbacks on this show. sure, it may suck, but we need a place to bitch about how much it sucks (my girlfriend is tired of hearing about it). this is ain't it cool, this is where we come to talk and vent and get excited and share frustrations about the geeky things we all love and love to hate. it's your job to cover this stuff, regardless of quality. i'll be seriously dissapointed in this site if it doesnt cover something as nerdy and mainstream as heroes. besides, look at the number of posts in this and other heroes talkbacks. obviously we still want to talk/bitch about it. doesn't the "most downloaded show on the internet" deserve it?

Sorry to tell you your beloeved Heroes tried to follow JJ Abrams style of story telling which is just trying to awe people with gimmicks. That would be okay if there was a reason to it but this is the era of just surprising people with crap that serve no purpose but to have water-cooler talk the next day. But it comes at the sacrifice of real story telling. What you true fans say that Heroes has changed, I see the same thing from the very beginning. You're just not awed by Heores' surprises anymore because it's a one-trick pony that you've already seen before. To which is why Hiro's omnipotent power has now been given a limitation. With that power he can change everything, i.e. saving Nathan from being killed. Just like JJ Abrams and his crew, they certainly don't think about what's going to happen down the road which is why his shows has so many holes and loose strings in the end.

of season 3, and if it were ancient Rome, the lions would've been called in to open whoop-ass on the show. Even if we have spirited discussions, I still consider you and everyone on here friends.
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That said, I agree with HalJordanSuperstar; Sylar was a serious ratings drain last season. But the show had no choice; they had to hitch their wagons to Quinto due to Star Trek coming out in May. People have simply tired of Sylar, and NBC's gotta cowboy up and drop the hammer on him.

"... Milo Ventimiglia made his entrance"<p>That's because they were attendees just warming up for (or possibly left-over from) the Twilight panel.<p> CHRISTIAN_BALE_TRASHED_MY_LIGHTS, I respect the Bobby Ewing move. They had the ability to recognize the downward slide Dallas had taken and had the balls to reset the show by trashing an entire season by saying "it never happened". Imagine if Heroes did that; if everything since the final 20 minutes of the 1st season finale was a dream or a vision of a possible future. Instead Linderman is not killed and the Heroes rally around Peter to fight Sylar, who is saved by Linderman's backup plan, a group of super villians. Resetting the show back to when it was great and had promise, and fixing the problems that led to its decline. From there it is good vs evil, picking a side, recruiting, scuffles, tussels, espionage, and betrayal. Blue flashes behind a door to indicate a fight isn't akin to Bobby in the shower, it is reducing an action sequence to simple exposition.

There are parts of this show that were brilliant, but the constant flipping and flopping of character motivations without regard to any central idea of who anyone was or what they are like turned me WAY off to the point where I just couldn't watch anymore. <p>It was always about some sensational twist or revelation in the final minutes, but they'd have to make characters do things that made no internal sense to accomplish... over and over and OVER.<p>let it die. The cast and crew will be better off in other shows.

As long as Peter, Clair, Sy-than, Angela, Clair's mother, Ando, Icewoman and the rest keep coming back and sucking the ratings well dry, I'm ready to accept a second full-size helping of the NBC life-support system, the Jay Leno Show starring Jay Leno and whichever celebrity's flights are delayed at LAX.

I never watched the first two seasons on television, only later on DVD, and season two was fucking WEAK. Even if 24 didn't come back in the same timeslot, I would have skipped out on Heroes before the "Fugitives" arc started. NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!!! Every five or six episodes, plotlines are abandoned (remember Peter's Irish girlfriend? Totally abandoned in a post-apocalyptic future that NO LONGER EXISTS, and Peter's like "Yeah, whatever...") as characters are reset back to whatever they were doing two seasons ago. At least Lost consistently pushing it's storyline forward. Hell, even Smallville was better in it's EIGHTH season than Heroes was in season 3.

I certainly hope I won't watch shit like America's Got Talent and Two-Men-And-One-Fat-Kid when I'm over 50, but the odds are against me. Everyone gets REALLY BAD taste in entertainment once they pass age 50. It's like a law of nature.

Heroes has had too many 2nd chances and they fall back on the same olde tropes over and over<br>
I'm evil, now I'm good, not I'm evil again, wait now I'm good, It was all and act I'm really evil.<br>
And it seems like thay can pack that into a single episode<p>
I would watch if Hiro got shot in the face and died forever

That's why Heroes blows. I haven't really loved an episode since Claire saved everyone from Radioactive Man. Last season, I watched about half the episodes, because hardly anything ever happened. I did watch "Cold Snap," which was a'ight but way over-rated due to simply not sucking that much.
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Kill Sylar. I agree that the never-ending stories of Nathan and Sylar are killing the show.
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Matt sucks. Mohinder is worse. Peter Petrelli guarantees me falling asleep. I have even grown bored with Claire. Hiro is totally messed up beyond any usefulness. HRG is now tiresome and redundant. Probably all the current cast could go, the only one who doesn't bore me is Ali Larter, and that' because she keeps becoming different characters.
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But Heroes can't introduce anyone decent without killing or wasting them. Think of all those lame "villains," my favorite being Claire's real mom, the awesome Jessalyn Gilsig, who could light a cigarette with her thumb. Whoopeee!
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Electricity Girl, Kristen Bell, was awesome, so she got killed off.
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If this season involves HRG trying to save Claire, or Peter being part of any sort of conspiracy, forget it.
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Still haven't even decided if I'll DVR tonight's episode or just write it off, because I sincerely believe this season will be more of the same old, same old.

It burns and aches with this conversation of Two 1/2 men and Heroes. Heroes jumped the shark in season two; same story line over and over, one too many heroes. It COULD/SHOULD have been a great show but they wrote themselves into a corner and had to Sylar themselves out of it. Two and 1/2 men are popular because the mid-west makes it so.
And why no mention of Jay Leno and his tanking ratings???? I smell/call bullshit

Its become the biggest piece of crap on TV after starting with a lot of promise. Peter forgetting about his Irish girlfriend is just the tip of the iceberg. How about Mohinder being in charge of protecting the little girl, then he becomes the fly instead. What happened to the little girl at this time? Who knows? The writers don't care, why should I? I watched the show, even though I thought it was dumb for a while. I finally stopped watching when the fast girl lied and pretending to be into the guy that can read minds. The guy can READ MINDS and he was fooled by her.

1. They introduce interesting characters but don't utilizing them very well. Ex. the escaped villains who teamed up. They were discarded and not developed. I can't see how the series only depends on Sylar as the villian.
2. The on and off caught by the enemy, escape, and get caught again. Gets really redundant and pointless.
3. Not enough episodes that focus on single back stories and helps to develop characters. "Company Man" is an example of one that worked really well.
4. Downsizing characters powers. Another pointless plot angle. Ex. Hiro and Peter.

place at the same time, I don't see how they are mutually exclusive. What is preventing one from crossing the street in order to attend both? My point was that it may be all those who, as Herc claims, responded to Milo Ventimiglia with screams weren't so much fans of the show as they were fans of screaming at young good looking guys (similar to the same group that, by all reports, populated the Twilight panel).<p>Homer Sexual, another "villain" they did away with was Bubbles from The Wire who could make black holes. Here's a guy who believes that his vortex kills people, and HRG felt the best way to reliably get rid of Sylar was trick him into one of these holes. Thing is, how do we know people die? Maybe the vortex this guy creates is a portal to another dimension, or maybe just another place. Who's to say his supposedly dead neighbour isn't simply stuck on some deserted island. I was expecting Sylar, and possibly even Claire, to get sucked into the vortex, only to wind up safe & sound but elsewhere (either together or separate). Instead, we get a speech and the death of a guy with a cool and criminally underdeveloped power (and a great actor to boot).

Just clarifying times. The Twilight panel was on Thursday and the Heroes panel took place on Saturday I believe. If you've been to Comic Con you can see there's a clear difference on fans. Yeah there's probably a crossover but not as rabid and female as the Twilight fans. Plus I didn't see personally how big the hall was over at the hotel but I heard there was a significant difference from the year before when the Heroes panel took place in Hall H. Also Milo goes to Comic Con for more than just Heroes. He tries to sell his comic book too and what I hear is the attention he attracts for that panel is no different from any other project that involves a celebrity.

If we're talking season 2 and onwards? I'll take Carrot Top, hands down.
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Did ya...did ya see the one where Carrot Top had the toilet seat on his head and then dialed 1-800-CALL-ATT while spouting lines from "Chairman of the Board"? Oh, hyuk hyuk. Good times. Good times.
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At least it wasn't Heroes Season 2. There's only so much pain I can handle.

Honestly, the more I think about this show, the more I realize that its really never been that great. Season 1 was the best of the bunch, but even that one had some pretty boring episodes. I missed most of season 2, and from what people tell me, I didn't miss anything really important. Season 3 had some episodes so boring, I found myself daydreaming in the middle of them. I missed a few episodes as well, and really haven't had much desire to go back and watch them.
I agree with what most people have been saying. This show needs some big changes. The characters and plots have gotten real repetitive, Sylar especially. Seriously, if they have going around telekinetically cutting people's heads open every episode again, I'm done. They really need some new villains that are actually interesting. Robert Forster's character was great, but every other villain they're brought in has been really one-dimensional, and usually quickly desposed of. I'm going to check out tonight's episode, but I'm expecting to be disappointed. This show had a lot of potential, but to me it seemed like the writers and directors never really found the right tone

Mr. Red Hulk mystery himself is the reason why the writing on that show for the past two years has been shit. Loeb did some cool Smallville stuff but when you're left alone in your own Dollhouse (fuck you Whedon for that crap by the way viva more Firefly) for far too long the smell of shit blends into the air. Glad NBC fired his ass. This season should be much better

Hot start. Breakout character. Engaging premise. The finale to first season that was disappointing but forgivable because it set up some great things for the next season. The heroes knew eachother, and they knew evil existed in the form of others with powers. They could have done anything with that, but no they tried to hit the reset button. Somehow everyone forgot everyone else existed and they all went home to live "normal lives." Then they blamed the writer's strike for leaving a million and a half dangling plotlines. (Hello, girlfriend stuck in a dystopian future!)

It's success actually an indication to the contrary. It being the number 1 show in the America is merely an indication of just how many truly boring people there are out there. The people who watch this show are the same ones who laugh out loud at Marmaduke or (shudder) Family Circus comics.

It's actually not possible for Heroes to be good beyond the first season and still remain the same fundamental show. The problem is this - there are 3 characters on the show with Godlike powers, 2 of them have the ability to stop any threat within 1 episode, the the ability to fix everything by the 2nd episode if they happened to goof up. So in order for the show to keep it's 3 most popular characters, each season they need to come up with some deux ex machina reason for Peter, Sylar and Hiro to not have the ability to use their powers. So the writing is *always* going to be hackneyed and stilted, because they have to work within these stupid restraints. The only thing that would make this show good again would be permanently killing off Hiro and Peter.

for wherever there is a troll yelling "is this show still on?", you will find me.<p>wherever there are haters relentlessly hating, I'll be there.<p>
and you will know me by the trail of talkbacker tears I leave in my wake.

I have been disappointed with heroes over its entire run. I will list the reasons below<BR><BR>
1. Sylar vs Peter keeps not happening again and again.... when we finally do get a glimpse of a Sylar Peter battle, Nikki (Tracy,Gina,Baba whatever) steps in and hits Sylar and for what reason? Nikki had never met Peter, nor Sylar, shouldn't she have been tending to her then shot and mortally dying husband?<BR><BR>
2. Their inability to kill characters off. example Nathan, hes had Nuclear radiation exposure which would have killed him, He's been shot by Peter (then revived), He was killed in future by Peter, but hey that was future, and peter immed. got his powers taken like a retard by his father. Ex 2: Nikki/Baba/Jessica/Gina or whatever her name is. But at least her storyline got explained (Triplet Sisters, different powers, Tracy's is water manipulation, only we were led to believe it was just "freezing")<BR><BR>
3. The forgetting of characters (I know Chris Ecceslston (the invisible man) was fresh off his Doctor Who high , but that character just vanished along with: West, (who I am glad is gone), Dude from Terminator that played John Connor (because they were going to make him gay..)Catlin, who they simply dropped all together though everything peter was doing at the end of S2 was just for Catlin.. They could have simply explained that since the virus outbreak never occurs she is stuck in an alternate reality forever or something...Molly (so what if child actors grow, set your show in real time)... Vortex Guy (coolest Villian they introduced besides the Puppet man, whom basically just has Sylar's kinetic manipulation ability). Let's see who else.. Aqua Boy (He was finally a sensible actor who had some chemistry with the pointless character of Claire). Hanna Giettleman (she could have been the perfect "rebel", but they made it Micah, another character who's story should long be ended.<BR><BR>
4. Deaths of characters people actually like. Vortex Guy (though I am still going for the he's not dead and can pop in and out theory). Hero's nemesis the speedster Daphne (at least they gave her a proper send off..). Adam Monroe (such a pittance, he could have simply injected Pa Patrelli with his blood)Claire's real mother, (umm you could have simply ran out of the building then let it all out ??? pointless death). D.L is one of the standouts as he was one of the only characters from the show actually being a Hero. Linderman (though during Villians it was obvious the writers knew killing him off was a bad Idea, as when they brought back Eric Roberts for the flashback episode)... I know there are more that I'm missing but the most important of all, Elle. It was horrible what they did to Elle's character, and I for one believe that Sylar would have never done that to her. It was simply bad, bad writing. She had the potential to be Noah's mom, but the writers don't seem to communicate with each other about what their future consists of. (I Also liked Bob by the way).
<BR><BR>
5. Anticlamatic Storylines: Season one was great till the last ep, already explained my dismay with the Nikki jumping in, but for people with so much power (Peter, and Sylar) we should have been seeing some Dragonball Z style action. S2 was a total dead end, and in my humble opinion they should have ended it with the Virus dropping as it was intended to end before the writers strike. Villans was okay,however pointless, it did nothing but had characters flip flop flip flop cry whine and lie. If people would actually communicate to one another, but nope. I would imagine everyone would have everyone's cell by now.. I actually liked the thought that Sylar was Peter and Nathan's brother, evil like his Father, but they quickly retconned on that.. but Fugitives was horrible sans the episodes "Shades of Gray", and "I am Sylar". On that note should probably add Luke Sylar's maybe half brother to the list of people that won't be returning.
<BR><BR>
They can fix this show very plain and simple and this is how:
1. Kill the following characters and have them stay gone Nathan (Well have Sylar change back to himself...) Micah, Suresh (he has NEVER been interesting not even in season 1) Claire (god her acting is so horrible), Tracy/Baba.<BR><BR>
Then then make it a tale with REAL stakes. I.E Sylar has become so powerful he can blow up whole cities etc, Peter, whom regained his FULL power by absorbing Sylar's at the end of last season, will finally Fight Sylar. In the mean time we will learn that there has been a secret group (The cockroach that always seems to appear) that has been watching events unfold, that will come into the fray and try to claim world power with physical force. Our Heroes would then assemble (idea would be Hiro, Ando, Parkman, HRG (his power is cleverness), Gittleman (shes pure digital now baby), and Micah's Shadowcat cousin) they could also introduce a few new REAL heroes, not just self proclaimed titled Heroes. It would all come to a head with the teams going at it meanwhile Peter and Sylar duking it out flying throwing blasts etc knocking each other through buildings, Till finally one was left standing. <BR><BR>
Then again I've been hearing some circus BS... so I'm pretty sure none of that is going to happen. I'm done if tonight is horrible.

I have been disappointed with heroes over its entire run. I will list the reasons below<BR><BR>
1. Sylar vs Peter keeps not happening again and again.... when we finally do get a glimpse of a Sylar Peter battle, Nikki (Tracy,Gina,Baba whatever) steps in and hits Sylar and for what reason? Nikki had never met Peter, nor Sylar, shouldn't she have been tending to her then shot and mortally dying husband?<BR><BR>
2. Their inability to kill characters off. example Nathan, hes had Nuclear radiation exposure which would have killed him, He's been shot by Peter (then revived), He was killed in future by Peter, but hey that was future, and peter immed. got his powers taken like a retard by his father. Ex 2: Nikki/Baba/Jessica/Gina or whatever her name is. But at least her storyline got explained (Triplet Sisters, different powers, Tracy's is water manipulation, only we were led to believe it was just "freezing")<BR><BR>
3. The forgetting of characters (I know Chris Ecceslston (the invisible man) was fresh off his Doctor Who high , but that character just vanished along with: West, (who I am glad is gone), Dude from Terminator that played John Connor (because they were going to make him gay..)Catlin, who they simply dropped all together though everything peter was doing at the end of S2 was just for Catlin.. They could have simply explained that since the virus outbreak never occurs she is stuck in an alternate reality forever or something...Molly (so what if child actors grow, set your show in real time)... Vortex Guy (coolest Villian they introduced besides the Puppet man, whom basically just has Sylar's kinetic manipulation ability). Let's see who else.. Aqua Boy (He was finally a sensible actor who had some chemistry with the pointless character of Claire). Hanna Giettleman (she could have been the perfect "rebel", but they made it Micah, another character who's story should long be ended.<BR><BR>
4. Deaths of characters people actually like. Vortex Guy (though I am still going for the he's not dead and can pop in and out theory). Hero's nemesis the speedster Daphne (at least they gave her a proper send off..). Adam Monroe (such a pittance, he could have simply injected Pa Patrelli with his blood)Claire's real mother, (umm you could have simply ran out of the building then let it all out ??? pointless death). D.L is one of the standouts as he was one of the only characters from the show actually being a Hero. Linderman (though during Villians it was obvious the writers knew killing him off was a bad Idea, as when they brought back Eric Roberts for the flashback episode)... I know there are more that I'm missing but the most important of all, Elle. It was horrible what they did to Elle's character, and I for one believe that Sylar would have never done that to her. It was simply bad, bad writing. She had the potential to be Noah's mom, but the writers don't seem to communicate with each other about what their future consists of. (I Also liked Bob by the way).
<BR><BR>
5. Anticlamatic Storylines: Season one was great till the last ep, already explained my dismay with the Nikki jumping in, but for people with so much power (Peter, and Sylar) we should have been seeing some Dragonball Z style action. S2 was a total dead end, and in my humble opinion they should have ended it with the Virus dropping as it was intended to end before the writers strike. Villans was okay,however pointless, it did nothing but had characters flip flop flip flop cry whine and lie. If people would actually communicate to one another, but nope. I would imagine everyone would have everyone's cell by now.. I actually liked the thought that Sylar was Peter and Nathan's brother, evil like his Father, but they quickly retconned on that.. but Fugitives was horrible sans the episodes "Shades of Gray", and "I am Sylar". On that note should probably add Luke Sylar's maybe half brother to the list of people that won't be returning.
<BR><BR>
They can fix this show very plain and simple and this is how:
1. Kill the following characters and have them stay gone Nathan (Well have Sylar change back to himself...) Micah, Suresh (he has NEVER been interesting not even in season 1) Claire (god her acting is so horrible), Tracy/Baba.<BR><BR>
Then then make it a tale with REAL stakes. I.E Sylar has become so powerful he can blow up whole cities etc, Peter, whom regained his FULL power by absorbing Sylar's at the end of last season, will finally Fight Sylar. In the mean time we will learn that there has been a secret group (The cockroach that always seems to appear) that has been watching events unfold, that will come into the fray and try to claim world power with physical force. Our Heroes would then assemble (idea would be Hiro, Ando, Parkman, HRG (his power is cleverness), Gittleman (shes pure digital now baby), and Micah's Shadowcat cousin) they could also introduce a few new REAL heroes, not just self proclaimed titled Heroes. It would all come to a head with the teams going at it meanwhile Peter and Sylar duking it out flying throwing blasts etc knocking each other through buildings, Till finally one was left standing. <BR><BR>
Then again I've been hearing some circus BS... so I'm pretty sure none of that is going to happen. I'm done if tonight is horrible.

House consistently rocks it. I still know peeps that are watching Heroes, and lo, I do not pity them, but I am seriously dubious that it could ever come back to Season 1 enjoyablity for me since they've had already TWO friggin' seasons to do it and failed. I'm already done; I'm just keeping my ear to the ground for amusing developments. ;-)

Sept. 21, 2009, 7:42 p.m. CST

by kimrae1977

I actually have a friend that watched all the DVDs over the summer and can't wait for the new season. Milo, Adrian, and Quinto are her latest eye candy. ;)

For the first time I could care less about the series premier. Bryan Fuller leaving again demoralized my feelings about the show. I imagine he just couldn't work with the suits who are determined to ruin what they have not already ruined. But who knows? Maybe he saw no hope, either.

The way I see it, this show is going to end soon - four years is a great many years for a show like this to last. Think of most classic genre shows. How many lasted four years? I look at it like we had a great time with these characters and I hope to see them continue in novels and comics and maybe future movies once the show has been redubbed a "classic" like so many old shows that find a good home in syndication. My favorite characters are Matt, Micah (GO REBEL!) and Sylar. For the record, making Sylar one of the core cast-member and always telling us what he's doing robs us of the chance for him to show the fuck up and fuck shit up. :)

"What if superheroes existed in the real world?"
It's been done, a billion times over, if a couple different mediums. 9 times out of 10 the execution it horrible because of what it would be like if people actually had superpowers.
Miracleman probably being the example. That kind of slaughter and mayhem doesn't fit well into a serialized approach. It looses steam.
Superheroes beget a post-apocalypse. They are gods.

Liked the opening...finally someone acting like a Hero...<p>Ice Chick comes back as Hydro-chick, bald dude is killed by 'Jack the Knife' from Wild Cards and cool fight between the two...Noah waffles into a new plan, Mama Patrelli dreams a twisted dream, new villian with cool circus level powers, Claire decides telling the truth is her new thing. She sucks at Guitar hero...Hiro is(sorry, no spoilers...)Roommate...? WTF?

There are some good ideas in this season's opener...LOVE the carnival clan...Like their exploitation of Hiro...<p>Will Noah and Peter FINALLY gather a super team to do good like Peter's mama did...???<p>Does anyone seriously think that Claire's new BFF doesn't have powers, too? <p> Like Speed Force Slasher Dude....finally some superhero on superhero violence...

.....Iv'e watched it from episode one and I feel like I have to see it to it's end. This season so far is pretty *yawn* worthy. Just cancel this show, NBC...please. The executives there are just riding a sick horse. I can't understand why the producer's cant draw in ACTUAL writing talent...not just predictable plot writers. THE WRITING IS LAZY!!!!! I can't seem to make that any clearer. The talent, cast wise, is all there, just hire new writers. Maybe make some calls to Geoff Johns or Brad Meltzer. Idea # 1.) Introduce the idea of a continous GLOBAL dynamic. There ARE more people with powers then just the people that lie in New York. New York should not be the focus. 2.) Crying out loud, get everyone together to form a team. It's been long overdue. 3.) and lastly, come up with NEW superpowers. I'm seriously waiting for goddamn Cyclops to show up. thats it for now.

It wasn't the best, but this episode wasn't bad. Like Nazareth said, if they follow through with the what they started with tonight's episode, this season may not be that bad. The show can't go on forever though. If it gets renewed for another season, they should make it the last.

Then again, I have very low expectations. This show is primarily a good excuse for me to get my married friend out of the house. Thought the plot lines with Parkman, Sylar, Nathan, Peter, HRG, and T-Bag were cool. Thought the claire thing was a bit too like season 1. Oh well, can't win them all. I'll still watch next week.

All I can say is "meh".
What worked:
*The absence of Sureh wasn't really noticed... Here's hoping he goes the way of Maya
*Sylar was fun as always (hopefully Quinto got a pay bump to remain on this dreck)
*Tracy Strouse seems to actually have something to do this year, let's hope it lasts.
*Peter's storyline is actually plausible... it's about TIME.
*The Carnies, interesting, though not as fun as they should be. If they're the "Big Bad" this year, step it up already.
*Nathan slowly discovering that "somethings up". I wasn't a big fan that they kept him after Sylar killed him, but this was well done (especially the lighting bit). They could have taken it further though, made him make something "really horrible" happen to play with the genre a bit and to REALLY freak him out.
What didn't work:
*Claire's roommate "suddenly" biting the dust wasn't that surprising... nor was Claire throwing herself out a window... (yawn). If you're going to do the annoying roommate at college thing, you have to be unique about it. See: Buffy, Greek, etc.
*HRG/Mama Petreli, enough already. "There's a Plan". There's always a Fraking Plan, it never works, after 30+ years, figure it out.
*Parkman "Seeing Sylar". Like I said above, Qunito makes an unworkable story "fun", but that doesn't mean it "works".
*Killing HRG's partner/boss from last season. The show really pulled an "L-Word" here, things should stay messy from the previous season for a bit... let things and conflicts ratchet up.
*The Hiro storyline. Just kill the character already, same with Ando and his wife who can't act. Once again they're re-writing the rules of timetravel, and I couldn't really care.
*Not revealing the central story for the season in a 2-HOUR-PREMIERE. This is the real fault with the episode.... what's this season about? There's a compass thingy missing, Claire's in college, Peter's an EMT, Hiro's dying...blah blah blah, get on with it already. You don't need a big "the World's going to rip-in-half" ending, but give us a clue as to what's coming (as well as a reason to tune in for another 13+ episodes) Right now, all I can say in YAWN.
Fun fact with the casting: Ted from Queer as Folk was the teacher, and the Waterboy was from the gay-film "Latterdays". Clearly the casting director's been watching too much Logo.

Heroes finally defeated me this past season. It wore me down to a state of pure exhaustion and then did unspeakable things to me. It beat me bloody with uninteresting characters. Pummeled me with convoluted stories. Hammered me with an absolute refusal to kill off any dead weight then raped me senseless with unresolved plot threads, inexplicable personality changes and, last but not least, an attempt to turn tiny little Hayden Panettiere into an action hero. They can't cancel this piece of shit fast enough to soothe my shattered psyche.

he would have changed a LOT more. if Ando had Kimiko as his girlfriend, he wouldn't have gone after that girl in Vegas before, remember? his actions there changed a lot of what happened with him and Hiro in that episode, which would have repurcussions.<p>I'm not a fan of the butterfly effect idea (since it's named after a completely FALSE pseudo-scientific assertion) but this is one case where it's ludicrous to believe that Hiro would come back and EVERYTHING would be exactly the same, when he's radically changed Ando's life for the past 14 years. <p>VERY weak writing, in my opinion. they should have made it something smaller, like Ando getting a tiny scar or something less major than a MAJOR interaction with Hiro's sister. VERY weak. weak weak weak.

When she had that sex scene with House, all I was thinking is that he's getting Jason Bourne's sloppy seconds......that and he was a lucky bastard. :-)

Sept. 22, 2009, 12:20 a.m. CST

by kimrae1977

I liked the new episodes. And as a fan of Ray Park, it's definitely nice to see him. Really like the Carnival characters. Was surprised at the chemistry between Ali Larter and Jack Coleman. So glad the wig is gone on Claire and Hayden's real hair is back. Really, I was pretty satisfied with everything tonight. I watch TV to chill out and give my brain a break from writing, so I have no need to analyze every little detail. Glad the new roommate bought it...she was hella annoying!

I can't believe people still watch Heroes, it's such a pile of trash. The last episode of season 1 was where the cracks began and they just didn't stop -- I really gave the shortened second season a full on try. I couldn't get through the 3.1 ep (is that where they inroduced the same overarching plot for the 3rd time?) and that even had david anders in it. I want to know who was reading those scripts and thinking: this sounds amazing!! When their career ends with this show, it will be deserved.

Now if they could get her into that whip cream bikini I'll be impressed. Tbag was ok so was HRG. If Madelin Zima would fuck Clair bear and punch her like she does in Californiacation I will be really happy.

Was it me, or did she kind of not suck tonight ? Did she take acting lessons in the offseason ? Anyway, this whole show just is "meh" now .. I'll probably keep watching though, just because the show isn't on Thursday, like every other damn show I watch.

Whats was the deal with going everywhere and seeing graffiti art of the world cracking apart. What was going to cause that event. Never explained. Peter went to the horrible horrible future to see Sylar and finds almost everyone has travel superpowers and the world is peaceful and kinda cool. WTF was so bad about that future, was Peter pissed cause he wasn't special anymore and the general public could fly and shit?

"If Madelin Zima would fuck Clair bear and punch her like she does in Californiacation I will be really happy."<p>Amen brother.<p>And yeah, it wasn't *that* bad an episode, I would dare say better than anything from last year.

take back his original power from Sylar and stick with his sucky version? He showed that he wanted powers to help people better in his EMT job, why not get his orignal back and have a ton of powers to help people with?

And they're brutal: 3.4 rating, 5 share for the 2 hours, which breaks down thusly.
<p>
The 8-9PM episode 'Orientation' logged a 3.5/5. That was a series low - until 'Jump, Push, Fall', the 9-10PM installment. That registered a 3.2/5. House slaughtered it and CBS' comedies, too.

Funny you should say that - 325 felt like them trying to redo the end of S1. Now in S4, we've got fractured Nathan (as in S2)... Claire starting a new school (as in S2) and people pretending to be Irish - but yes, it's much better here.

Considering the (noticable) budget cuts, I don't think they were expecting huge ratings. Now perhaps you can compare those ratings to the S3 ones, so we can see how far it's slipped from that. Using 'series low' doesn't mean much if it's a 0.0002 drop.

Touche on the Doyle thing. There's little bits of carry on like that, but the first episode of each Volume is - mostly - a reintroduction. <p> Take 401 for instance... each character is introduced in a specific way. It's not like Lost where the season carries on seconds after the last ended.

Ever new season of Heroes is a complete reboot of the series. This is the first time they've ever started the series without the main characters finding out about their powers. Its how season 2 should have started with all the characters using or not using their powers, not re-learning what they can do. <P> And I'm sick of the fucking Time Traveling boy story, sort his ass out, and get rid of the sub titltes. I'll let Lost get away with it because they do almost whole episodes, but Heroes is a show I usually turn on while doing other things and the random cut to that annoying story in subtitltes with his annoying ass voice (should have just made him a small asian girl at least then the voice would make sense) is annoying as fuck, and he's still the biggest bitch in TV history.

It's no secret I have despised this show from the beginning. It's filler for me until Lost comes back on and I usually hate every episode. I wil lsay I thought last season's premiere was strogn as well and it went down the toilet like it always does, so I'm not expecting much.<p>
They got a lot of things right. Like showing mutants fighting (GASP!). What a novel idea. Ray Park is a bad ass. Only took 4 seasons. Suresh being gone is such a welcome change as well. And the new main "villain" kicks ass and seems multi-dimensional. Everything was note perfect last night as far as the characters. My only complaint was that Claire was dumb enough to jump out the window with her roommate RIGHT THERE, but it's forgiveable since her character is kind of a ditz anyway.

Is its insistence in killing off all the cool cameo's they can get. Maybe they can't afford to have them on the show more often, but Eric Roberts and Malcolm Macdowell were both made that they had to leave the show so fast.

If you scroll up earlier and read my posts you'd read everything I thought was wrong with heroes.<BR><BR>
Enter Tonight: They introduce a whole new group of people with super-powers and their own agenda. I for one am hoping that the Carnival's whole overall arching storyline is to get Hiro to fix things. (Meaning NY Blows up, Claire dies etc). <BR><BR>
They finally got rid of the fly, errr Mohinder and I hope he is gone permanently, did they feature his name in the credits? His absence brought the show up in my book. Tracy has better interaction with HRG then she ever did with Nathan. Slynathan is finally interesting. And oh yeah Parkman is a loon, who in their right mind would answer out loud to a hallucination? <BR><BR>
I also am wondering what the Carnies powers are. You see T-Bag at the start using Avalanche type powers, but then you see he has kinetic manipulation through ink as well. We all know Darth Maul is kinda like Omega Red/ Deadpool before they got transformed. <BR><BR>
I will continue to watch until my new questions are answered and if they keep the story progressing in the vein they started last night. However my one biggest gripe: At the end of last season peter absorbed ALL of Sylars abilities. Why is he simply back to one at a time again??

He only took shapeshifting from Sylar. In 325 he says 'bet you didn't think I'd take that one.' Remember, even when Peter was an Empath who could absorb multiple abilities he still had to work to access Intuitive Aptitude.

Yes, but as he said this you could clearly see him transferring all of Sylar's powers, note him losing his Shifting ability as peter took his hand as though he was absorbing everything from him, before pricking him with the elephant tranq. Thats what my eyes saw at least. From being Nathan his eyes grew wide his flesh started doing the shift thing, as more and more of his power went into peter. I dunno but 1 power peter == lame. If they are going to have an Uber Villian, we need an Uber Hero.

If they could fucking develop a character Robert and MM would have been awesome. As of now the only characters that have done anything are Matt Park and Claire's dad, he's the best part about the show and I can never remember his name. Profit fucking sucks, Sylar is never full realized and this is the first time they've made Rocky's Son anything other then a whinny ass bitch. Read my above post about the Asian duo.

I'd never seen an episode of Heroes before. I watched last night's premiere, and enjoyed it, mostly.<p>
But, I got bored before the ending, and went to bed.<p>
Still, I'll probably buy the first season offa iTunes now (unless the dvd boxed set is cheaper...)

Wow, that me sound like a retard. And the sad fact is I tried to edit that comeback for maximum effectiveness. See, just goes to show, too much meddling isn't always good. <P> So I guess I'm the ritard now and will go out and buy seasons 1-20 of Two and Half men so I can be like my breathern.

He was a huge character. Eric Roberts? Meh I could take it or leave it, in fact I don't even remember his character in the show, it was probably the end of season 2 which I don't remember at all. Like most of Heroes I've seen them all, but I could not give you a good plot summary of any of them. I just know the basic plots. <P> House last night was a lot better.

I didn't watch all of last season. Gave up halfway through. But I liked the trailer for the new season, and the addition of the carnival people seems brilliant. I'm giving this season another chance. The best thing they can do is improve Hiro's storyline and get rid of the Cheerleader. Hiro hasn't evolved, and Claire is annoying at the best of times.

Go see The Collector, much better then Heroes and her role in that movie is a lot better. But I still don't know why everyone thinks she's really hot. She's got maggie gyllenhaal syndrome, with droopy eyes and looks like she is growing jowls.

"They'll do a 'it wasn't suicide' twist later."
How can it be a twist when they've already pretty much stated that it wasn't a suicide. Claire saw no note, the girl had all the reason to live, and Claire and her suspicious new friend are investigating.
<br><br>how does that make it a "twist"

it may turn out that she was sent by Samuel to get close to Claire. For some reason the big baddies always follow Claire around. Plus there's no doubt in my mind that she had something to do with the suicide/murder.<br><br>and IMO she's not hot. at all. i'll agree with series7 about that. her face looks like a melted painting.

Voted #5 "Sexiest Women in the World" FHM Online (2009) <P> So its not some geek thing, well maybe. I just don't get it. All I'm saying is if you do like that bulldog look, watch the movie The Collector. And even if you don't think she's attractive, watch the movie The Collector. Either way watch that fucking movie its awesome.

But I wouldn't kick her out of bed. I'll take the hot tattoo chick. What is her power by the way? The guy manipulates the ink, right. So then her power is knowing everything about them once he tattoos her? Is that it?

I hated Two And a Half Men when I first saw it. Charlie Sheen's performance seemed so forced, it was impossible to suspend disbelief.<p>
Then they started playing re-runs every day, in that time slot where I'm so tired after getting home from work where I'll watch almost anything that isn't a talk-show while I'm waiting for my tv dinner to heat up.<p>
That was when warmed up to the show. Maybe sitting alone on my couch in the condo where I live alone (after several disasterous attempts at co-habitation with roomates and live-in girlfriends), sucking back a Pabst and waiting for my Swanson's Special makes me really warm up to (and envy) Sheen's character.<p>
Until the writers had him fall in love, and turned him into a pussy...<p>
Plus, Rose is pretty hot. I've liked her since I first saw her in Shattered Glass. Kinda sad she went from a movie like that to a shitty sit-com.

Yeah. I dig Hiro. Will admit he sometimes grates, but when they get him right the results are good. Only happens a couple times a year though. <p> As for Mad Zima, she's okay looking. But I prefer Larter.

1) Claire's new friend can't be the killer. She just can't! That would be so obvious and hackneyed!<p>
2) I was so excited to see Ray Park during the opening sequence and in the opening credits, then to see his mad skillz wasted during the action sequences was really disappointing.<p>
3) I really liked the concept of the super-powered paramedic. His bits were the parts of the show. I wish the show explored more the pros and cons of other characters using powers to enhance their "normal" jobs and lives. I presume the stuff with the psychic cop was a major plot point in previous seasons?<p>
4) Time travel sucks. Freezing time is awesome. Why disregard Hiro's cool power to focus on the lame, boring power?<p>
5) The super-powered carnival is a fun concept, but they seemed to indicate that they won't exploit it for all its worth, instead focusing on the Prison Break guy instead. Pity.<p>
6) For a show about super-powered humans in the "real" world, it's a major shame that the show isn't a hell of a lot more fun!<p>
7) The assasination attempt with the water in the car was really cool.<p>
8) I kept thinking that the story would work way better as an actual comic book rather than a tv show.

the guy moved earth in the beginning but then he manipulated the ink to choke Ray Park Darth Vader style. So I think he is telekinetic and can move anything, and she can old sense who they are. Just my theory.

Were there TWO compasses? I mean Samuel buried the one with whoever died, but then Denko or someone stashed it in the saftey deposit box. What up with that? And wh ythe hell was the key inside Denko. Did he swallow it?

"The super-powered carnival is a fun concept, but they seemed to indicate that they won't exploit it for all its worth, instead focusing on the Prison Break guy instead. Pity." - Royston Lodge
<br><br>I disagree. Within a 2 hour episode we saw 4 different carnival characters with powers. Of course they'll focus on Samuel but that doesn't mean we won't get to meet a bunch of other side-characters who work the carnival.

His recovery seemed to happen way too quickly, and it seemed way too neat & tidy that his doctor's license could be reinstated so easily.
They really didn't convey to the audience just how long he was institutionalized. They could have mitigated the "one-episode in the crazyhouse" problem by showing that the episode takes place over a really long period of time.<p>
Plus, the characters at Mayfield are more interesting than the ones at Plainsboro.<p>
I'm glad that House's shrink appears to be a recurring character, judging by the preview of next week's episode.

Its not bad enough NBC has two new hospital shows coming out (Mercy and Truma) after getting rid of Scrubs and ER now they have to make their main character in Heroes a EMT. I guess they think with how popular healthcare is right now, may as well make everything on TV about hospitals. Who fucking likes hospitals?

I would have enjoyed it much more if they hadn't thrown so many different plot-lines into one episode. Too much to keep track of.<p>The LOST method of focusing each episode on one plot-thread and showing how each thread connects to all the other ones over time is MUCH more satisfying.

This is why we recommend watching shows from the first episode. Because then, you know what the show is and there's no 'ah, I wish they did it like Lost did it' comments. <p> Well, there are. But people still realise how the show is structured.

I would be surprised if claires friend WASN'T involved in the suicide. Heroes is predictable most of the time, and this one we can see a mile away. If it turns out she's no involved and just a normal college student friend.....that would be surprising to me

Season 6 (or whatever they are on) was done in one two hour episode. It should have gone on longer. Though that two hourer should have been shorter then, it got a little long. Wasn't he only there for a couple of months? The time frame didn't make a lot of sense. Good acting and idea though bad plot points and timing. Just to get back to the same House figures out the problem at the last minute concept.

It's cheaper to show Hero time travel (he's there, they stop the camera and the actor moves out of frame, then they start shooting again) than it is to do the CG for the frozen time effects.<p>I really hope they explain why Denko had the compass, why he felt it necessary to stash it, by itself with nothing else, in a safe deposit box, then feel the need to keep this one thing safe by swallowing the key. Whatever its importance, did Denko know? Because otherwise it seemed like a lot of effort to go to for a simple souvenir.

He's an awesome guy, first off. Very genuine and nice and friendly. Very talktative too. He didn't want to leave Heroes. He agreed with me that it was a stupid decision to kill him off, and the only reason they brought him back in that flashback episode last season was bc of complaints they received from fans. He agrees the producers are killing the show with their hubris.

<p>You don't do a two hour premiere unless you're going to do a kick ass episode. It's just amplifies the viewers boredom to the point of exhaustion. Even if you liked that episode, you have to admit that nothing spectacular happened.</p>
<p>I threw my arms up every time Sylar was in Parkman's head. Those scenes where just awful. Everything with Claire is awful. Everything with Ali Larter is awful. Hiro continuing to act like a child is awful. The only decent part of that ep was the carnivale guy, but that's only because we don't know how awful he's going to be yet.</p>
<p>The only reason I'm on the fence about deleting this crap show from my DVR is that all the good stuff has been canceled and I need my TV fix. But it's really not worth it. NBC shows no interest in replacing the writers/show runner on this trainwreck. The should have used the strike as an opportunity to fire them all. But this is America, the country where shit floats and the "elite" never have to pay the price for their mistakes. I'm sure each of the writers will be rewarded with their own show someday.</p>

That cringe inducing Guitar Hero scene, compare that to the SHOULD have been cringe inducing House raps scene. Which turned out funny and nice. Its all in the acting and Heroes doesn't have any, especially from pudge pudge cheerleader girl.

I struggled to keep my eyes open during that last hour. How dumb do the writers think we are? Get rid of the Water Delivery Guy and you'll turn Evil????? Enjoy the last season, because this show is over.

it got about 5 mil viewers, give or take, for the 2 hours, which in turn caused Leno to get about 5 million viewers and come in 3rd in his timeslot behind the 10 PM heavweights (Leno is down over 10 million viewers from his first show) The MNF game had a good finish anyway, so that may have taken away viewers. Anyway, yeah, if Heroes posts this number on it's very first episode, the series is a goner. I guess. How does 30 Rock and The Office do (Their numbers aren't exactly stellar...lemmie check...seeing last week: office does better, 30 rock didn't run, and Heroes had about the same viewers as "SNL Weekend Update Thursday". But Heroes is a lot more expensive). So, uh, yeah, bye bye Heroes.

Because of Lorean Micheals. Anyone else notice everyone and their mom thanked him at the Emmeys. He probably came on the set the other day and said, NBC wants to cancell the show but I did something to keep it on the air.

they thanked lorne michaels because he's the one who made them who they are in the t.v. comedy world. Lorne found Tina and added her as a writer for SNL. Soon after made her the head writer and put her on Weekend Update. From there she's skyrocketed and got her own show (thanks to Lorne Michaels). Alec Baldwin had a career resurgence because of 30 Rock. Justin Timberlake has won Emmys now because of Lorne Michaels allowing him to stop by SNL so often.
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they thanked Lorne Michaels because he's the guy to thank in their situations. and 30 Rock would not have been cancelled after the amount of Emmy wins last year

Thanks for pointing out the most obvious connections in the history of television. I know that. But if you watch last years awards everyone thanks the shit out of Tina Fey, for its writing....soooo why the big change this year? You don't think Micheal isn't pulling strings to keep that show alive?

The thing with this show is that it peaked hard in the first season and it is clear they did not plan for success. The stories are over and over again in track, characters added that make no sense and killed off with just as much thought, and no real character development.<br><br>Once Sylar became the Big Bad, greed and popularity took over and stories suffered. Not that blame the character or Spock ERRRR whatever his name is (yeah, he's Spock now), it's just that what do you do with something like that once you give him that much power?<br><br>What you don't do is add more characters and more powers that (and I understand the statement, but just ride with me)don't make sense. This season, we get a guy who can choke with a TATTOO, and Ray Park doing Ray Park with a bad haircut, blades, and...<br><br>dang, didn't he do that role before? Oh yeah, once with horns on his head, once with a horse and no head, and ...okay, fool is typecast, move on...<br><br>Oh, and Claire continuing to sort problems out by JUMPING OFF OF HIGH PLACES, then the obligatory setting bones back in place. Were into the fourth season and we're STILL doing this?<br><br>I will probably still watch, because I'm a glutton for punishment or something, but this is really looking like an exercise in futility. I just hope I'm wrong...

That's what I've been saying!!! Every new season is just a bad reboot. This is the first time we've ever gotten close to a coherent connection from the last season to the new one. <P> Except you still got Masi Oka who still doesn't know his powers, Sklar is back to zero power and is going to have to get all his power back (like he's done in all the other seasons). At least Claire/Rockey's Son have their powers and except them and use them, so we don't have to deal with those two learning it all over again.

I'm done with Heroes this show sucks. It's awful I mean just freaking awful. Can someone please EXPLAIN to me why they brought HRG back from the dead using Claire's blood but when they could've used it on Nathan they totally forgot about that?
Heroes sucks please end this damn show!

When do the DVR numbers factor in? Next week sometme? If its the highest DVR series than there is a chance to get a Season 5. Personally, if this is the last season, no big deal- four years for a series like this is pretty good. It'll be showing as reruns on SyFy for the next 1000 years.

they dealt with that plot hole<p> nathan got some of claire's blood when he got healed from the burn<p> the blood only works once, therefore, could not be used again<p> the whole blood thing was stupid anyway...stolen frome the weapon x plot line, and not done anywhere near as well<p> the super soldier plot line was stupid too<p> in this new arc, they have also stolen a power from a book that is in development for a movie<p> i do work for the writer<P> its the carny thing with the performers having powers related to their carny act...im really wondering if this time they will be sued<P> would still be nice for someone to develop rising stars...which is a much better version of heroes and has a beginning and an end

Well, the whole thing with Hiro is just a letdown. It's like they forgot they made this guy into a badass in the future (that has been rewritten yada yada) but it's like he learned nothing. In other words NO DEVELOPMENT.

Yeah...I dont get a lot of the leaps of logic the characters come too. HRG goes from seeing knife wounds to Danko's stomach to theres something hidden in there? Clair has the most boring story and power. How useful would this power be in real life? I cut myself shaving and it heals instantly..yay. Its not like a person gets into a horrible accident or falls off of a bridge every week...well, Clair does. At least Peter was using his powers to help people finally. Although it looked like a Spiderman movie rip, sulking in a run down apartment listening to a police scanner. The effects still suck, but they always did. The carnival was kinda interesting. I hated the tattoo gimmick. They coulda come up with something better. I dont know, Ill probably watch for now, although I did quit watching last season at some pt.

I'm still gonna watch it (because I have nothing better to do) but it's become just so "meh". Not even "awful", just "meh". It never goes anywhere. At the beginning of every season the staus quo returns to normal, then some crazy shit happens, then there's a crap resolution. If they'd ended the last season with Sylar becomming the president it might have made this season interesting. Rather than sticking in a bunch of carival folk.

No-one ever dies in this programme. Well actually that's a lie. They die, THEN COME STRAIGHT BACK TO LIFE! (or they have an identical clone sister, or have a super-powered serial killer turn into them).I would not be surprised if Danko comes back in some form or other. Maybe he has a long lost twin brother. With hair.

Why doesn't she have powers? Or at least know that her parents did and her brother does? This is the sort of sloppy planning that's typical of the Heroes writers. They just make this shit up as they go along.

This is getting WAAAAY too old. Here's a thought, blast the cat with your damn Red Arch and THEN have Hiro freeze time before it hits the ground.<br>
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Teamwork, bitches. Power Man and Iron Fist had it, and THEY were fucking Heroes for Hire.

...this is Heroes. Of course the killer is Claire's roommate. Second. I'm done with this show. Seen everybody reintroduce themselves to each other and forget/retrocon 90% of the consequences of everything that has ever happened in the series four times now. That's enough.

on a very special Hiro and Ando Comedy Hour...<br>
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"I'm dying, Ando (for some reason and completely out of nowhere). Maybe soon (depending on if we get picked up for another half-season). I don't know (why---no, that's too easy)."

The heroics portions were good, except that Peter's powers suck. The set up of the carnival group was better than I expected. Especially since this seems a better way to set up villains than the last foray into villains territory. Noah and the water clone had a pretty good start and might be the more interesting line to follow other than the carnival. Claire's story telegraphed the suicide/murder bit so loudly that it was painful which is to say it was bad... really bad. However it's not as bad as Hiro's never work right powers and lame story in which he gets his best friend to hook up with his sister. His "I'm dying" crap is even worse to deal with. Parkman's story has also become extremely lame and the Sylar haunting him crap is just plain stupid. Parkman should have been out of the show after this episode. Showing him setting with his wife and child and getting the life he wanted. Adding the Sylar element is just a weak way of keeping him in the mix. The only Sylar element should be Nate, which looked like it might take a good turn with him developing new powers and actually knocking on peters door for help to figure it out, but it didn't.

where are you? Are you, the time-travelling Hero who was just seconds ago talking about the possiblity of going back in time to a carnival that (APPARENTLY) has some deep meaning to you, perhaps, maybe, IN THAT EFFING CARNIVALE?!? <br>
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Why do they make characters DO shit like that?! Is the audience really THAT dense it has to be spelled out like you were trying to explain it to a toddler or your dog?!? <br>
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"I must have time travelled!" No, REALLY Sherlock?! Christ, didn't you used to be my favorite part of this show?! EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!! QUESTION MARKS?????

I felt the set up was interesting, there is some mystery with the Carnies that has me interested in another installment... the dialogue and interaction between characters is much improved, particularly liked the bits between Peter & Noah, as well as Parkman and Sylar. They seem to finally be taking the show into a new direction. Some sparks of creativity there, if not completely original ideas (seriously, is there such a thing anymore? Superhero comics have pretty much run out of new ideas, they just rehash and repackage).
Clearly this will not be enough for the jaded talkbackers and jilted fanboys that love a good story slightly less than they love tearing down anything that doesn't satisfy their own personal brand of critical elitism, but what's really sad is even if the remainder of the season pays better than expected dividends on what is by all accounts an above average set up for a new season, the show has lost it's audience to a point that I doubt it will be able to save itself. While Lost has managed to re-capture it's fan base for the most part after drifting listlessly for a season and a half early on, this was mostly due to the writers/producers sacking up and giving and end date for their story, allowing them to move the plot forward. This isn't going to happen with Heroes.
I really like most of the cast and the characters, but Kring should have stuck to his original idea and made each season focus on a brand new cast with only occasional involvement of the prior seasons characters... it would have kept it fresh.
In any case, guess we can all ride the fourth and last season into it's grave. Hopefully they will at least give it a good death, and not die on the shitter.

I'll give you that this first episode has amazingly superior writing and acting. You've learned alot from your continual stumbling and failing. <BR><BR> HOWEVER, you have got to start thinking about your characters deeper. Do you seriously think Tracy would trust Noah so quickly?? He kidnapped her, tortured her, and used her to betray her son ( ok he's not really her son )
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And have Peter and Nathan abandoned their "family" idea from last season so quickly? I guess it makes sense that Nathan would but Peter? It's like you're rebooting him to end of the 1st season.<BR><BR> Actually it's alot like that for every one of them. Maybe this is a good thing.<BR><BR>PLEASE for the love of god tell me that there are more carnies with cool powers that aren't just "guest stars". Give these people some depth and don't make them one trick ponies.<BR><BR> And stop using the muther fucking Hatian for everything. He's an awesome character, but damn...even the best jokes start to sound stupid if you tell it too many times.
<BR><BR>And while I'm on it... bring back the black hole guy! You could have had an awesome story arc for him.

So disappointing that it finished in 4th spot. Last night was a great episode, except how dumb is Claire, throwing herself out the window into a very public place and then claiming she wants a "normal life" just a bit silly.

Thanks for the explaination I just never remembered hearing them explaining that the blood only works once. I just thinking the writing on this show is lazy & piss poor.
That was the most boring 2hrs period. I could care less about whatever direction their going into. It's also become incredibly predictable. What Claire's going to throw herself out the window & her new friend is going to see it? Wow I didn't see that coming. LMAO Really Tracey is going to hook up with HRG man that's so shocking. This show sucks!

at the end of one episode where HRG tells his family that he brought someone to protect them while hes gone, and Claires Bio-mom steps forward and does some flame shit with her hand! Cringeworthy camera work/acting/pacing/logic (why would stepping towards a frightened family with your hand on fire to instill confidance?didn't there last house burn down?)Ha .. the next episode flame maker protector woman gets kidnaped!!

...the Bennet/Larter stuff, of course. But surprisingly, so is Claire Goes To College(Zima is helping a lot, though) and Peter's story is where it should have been in S2. The Carnivale, errr, carnival has potential.<p>
What doesn't work: Everything else. Nathan/Parkman/Sylar need to go the fuck away. AS IF PARKMAN WOULD TALK OUT LOUD TO IN-HEAD NUMBER SIX, ERR, SYLAR. Hiro needs to die, but I want Ando around using his powers and being a rock star about it, lots of story potential there.

<p>Like many of you said to hole-y. They need to give Peter all his powers back. Sylar's coming back by mid-season possibly not before driving Parkman to have someone kill themselves.<p> <p>And why the fuck is Parkman talking to a hallucination? I mean seriously he fucking knows better than that. He makes people see things. He should know to just think it and the hallucination will hear it. He is in his own head.<p> <p> Oh and back to Peter. He should have kept Suresh's power. Super-speed can't get a door off someone trapped in a car, or Stuck in a burning building. And why isn't he concerned about getting his girlfriend back from that future? He's the one who's supposed to be so empathetic and caring that he can handle all the powers he had with out abusing them. You'd think he'd find Hero and go looking for the girl. That's just writers trying to forget everything that's happened up to that point.<p> And they better not put Noah and Tracy together. It's stupid Noah's a family man. I see him trying to get his wife back more than hook-up with a water elemental, who kills people.<p> <p> And Claire's new friend killed her roommate and works for the Carnies. They telegraph the fuck out of that. Such lazy writing. But they are going to make them kiss this season; for all your pervs who want to see a hot girl kiss a young Maggie Gyllenhellaugly. The girl isn't that ugly but she will get there.<p> <p> And last but not least FAIN88 your fucking funny guy. BRAVA.. Brilliant break down of the show.<p>

You didn't mention one plot-hole in that post. Just stuff that bugged you. Closest you came was Caitlin, but that's not a plot-hole so much as a dropped plot-line that Peter can't fix because he can't time-travel... and Hiro can't fix because he doesn't know about it.

I was one of those guys that kind of avoided Heroes until I knew it was going to stick around for more than 6 episodes. I actually watched all of the first two seasons in one marathon weekend before the third season. I more or less agree with all of the things that have been said here about them---the first had it's problems but kept me largely on the edge of my seat. The second was terrible, but I cut it some slack because of the stupid writer's strike. The third was hit and miss, but mostly miss. I now realize why we all liked the first season so much---this was the baseline season, where the writers had yet to establish the "rules" for their characters, their powers and their relationships. We just went along for the ride and waited with bated breath to see what they would throw at us next. But after that first season....hmm after that, the writers seemed to forget their own rules. But we didn't. Randomly changing charcter motivations, powers, etc., isn't a plot twist---it's just bad writing. Now here we are with the fourth season, and a few things are abundantly clear: 1) These characters and the actors who play them are worn out and played out. We have definitely seen enough of them. I know NBC originally thought some of these people were budding, break out stars. By now it's obvious that didn't pan out. They are ALL despensible, I don't know why the writers and/or network cling to them as if they are the backbone of their show. If you can write Paul Sorvino, Benjamin Bratt, Dennis Farina, and how many countless other actors out of Law and Order, you can write that short, chubby, pointless cheerleader out. You can write out the chubby cop. You can write out the not-sinister-or-scaryin-anyway-whatsoever Sylar guy. You can write out Ali Larter and all of her lame, contributing nothing characters, etc. etc. None of these people are "stars" and their "chracter development, as it were, has certainly run its course. 2) the premier was simply boring and uneventful. I mean really, what actually happened in those two hours? Clair went to school and Sylar/Nathan had an identity crisis. Oh yeah, some super fast guy also took 45 minutes of screen time to get a compass. Yawn. 3) The writer use the EXACT SAME plot devices every frigging year. What the hell is up with the paintings every season? is this the only way they know how to advance a plot? Okay, okay, so for the first three seasons they had people actually making paintings. So am I supposed to not notice that this chick with her tattoos telling people what to do isn't the same thing, lol? All and all, I will say that I will watch the show until it finished this volume. But this volume will be the last. NBC will release whatever is left over on the DVD for this, it's last season. RIP Heroes. you hade me at "Hello", but then you lost me in Feudal Japan.
Just my two cents though.
-J.

<p>Yep said that like a 5 year old. think about it. Peter goes to the future gets his girlfriend taken, comes back here wants to save her. Next season forgot he had her. That is holish.<p> <p>I said Pete should get with Hero because Hero is the person he remembers can travel through time. Either you go forward and get her there. Or you go back in time and stop yourself from taking her into the future its an easy fix. Look at that I just fixed the damn problem and I only have a California High School Diploma.<p> <p>On to Parkman who talks in peoples heads, talks out loud to someone in his own. Wait no that's just dumb, you got me on that one.<p> And the Claire's friend does look like Gyllenhag. Not a plot hole just a point. Someone else brought that up earlier I just though I'd piggyback on that sows back. How anyone can think she's attractive is beyond me.

Probably too late to add to this TB seeing as how it hasn't been touched in days. But am I the only one who thinks the female cop (the one who 'found' the suicide note) was the one who did her in?
Based on the previews for next week, it looks more like her talking to T-Bag than the college girl.