Oddities with CD-RWs - OS2

This is a discussion on Oddities with CD-RWs - OS2 ; I almost exclusively use CD-RWs and every once in a while I run into some
oddities, when I want to overwrite the content of a disk with usually an
updated image.
Frequently Fast Blanking in the CD-R/W-Tools from Chris W's ...

Oddities with CD-RWs

I almost exclusively use CD-RWs and every once in a while I run into some
oddities, when I want to overwrite the content of a disk with usually an
updated image.

Frequently Fast Blanking in the CD-R/W-Tools from Chris W's great front end
A/D-CD Creator works just fine, but every so often when it comes to burning
the new image on such a prepared disk, the burn process aborts with an error
after, frequently within the first few minutes.
The CD in such a case then only can be rewritten successfully, after
performing a blank 'All'.

The other day I had even a new one. After Fast Blanking the CD got burned
successful, according to the log, but there then was nothing on it but the new
volume name.
In a subsequent burn trial w/o previous re-blanking, it even showed still more
free space available than the 733MB (decimal) required for the image. However,
after indicating that close to some 20% were written, burning eventually
aborted with an error message as well.

A repeated Fast Blank wasn't able to resolve the problem and after playing
this game 3 times, finally I had here as well to perform a blank All' in order
to successfully burn the updated image on that disk.

So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
these cases?

Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
wrote:
> I almost exclusively use CD-RWs and every once in a while I run into some
> oddities, when I want to overwrite the content of a disk with usually an
> updated image.
>
> Frequently Fast Blanking in the CD-R/W-Tools from Chris W's great front end
> A/D-CD Creator works just fine, but every so often when it comes to burning
> the new image on such a prepared disk, the burn process aborts with an error
> after, frequently within the first few minutes.
> The CD in such a case then only can be rewritten successfully, after
> performing a blank 'All'.
>
> The other day I had even a new one. After Fast Blanking the CD got burned
> successful, according to the log, but there then was nothing on it but the new
> volume name.
> In a subsequent burn trial w/o previous re-blanking, it even showed still more
> free space available than the 733MB (decimal) required for the image. However,
> after indicating that close to some 20% were written, burning eventually
> aborted with an error message as well.
>
> A repeated Fast Blank wasn't able to resolve the problem and after playing
> this game 3 times, finally I had here as well to perform a blank All' in order
> to successfully burn the updated image on that disk.
>
> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
> these cases?

and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
be adequate.

Hope this helps...
--
From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
dougb007 at telus dot net
(Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)

Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
> wrote:
>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
>> these cases?
>
> Try going to:
>
>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
>
> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
> be adequate.
>
Thanks for that pointer.
Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
re-writable meadium.

Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
> > On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
> > wrote:
>
> >> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
> >> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
> >> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
> >> these cases?
> >
> > Try going to:
> >
> >> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
> >
> > and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
> > how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
> > you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
> > be adequate.
> >
> Thanks for that pointer.
> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
> re-writable meadium.

I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
(effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.

Hope this helps...
--
From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
dougb007 at telus dot net
(Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)

Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

Am 06.08.07 18.26 schrieb Doug Bissett:
> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
>
>> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
>>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
>>> wrote:
>>>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
>>>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
>>>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
>>>> these cases?
>>> Try going to:
>>>
>>>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
>>> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
>>> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
>>> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
>>> be adequate.
>>>
>> Thanks for that pointer.
>> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
>> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
>> re-writeable medium.
>
> I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
> you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
> blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
> clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
> (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
> next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
> writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
> erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
> fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.
>
Thank you. What you just summed up so nicely, is pretty much what in the
meantime I also found on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-RW.

It also was quite surprising for me to learn, that the phase changes of CD-RWs
are supposed to be less long term stable than the life expectancy of the
organic dye of regular CD-Rs. I alsways believed it to be the other way around.

Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:47:33 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
> Am 06.08.07 18.26 schrieb Doug Bissett:
> > On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
> >
> >> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
> >>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
> >>> wrote:
> >>>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
> >>>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
> >>>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
> >>>> these cases?
> >>> Try going to:
> >>>
> >>>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
> >>> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
> >>> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
> >>> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
> >>> be adequate.
> >>>
> >> Thanks for that pointer.
> >> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
> >> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
> >> re-writeable medium.
> >
> > I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
> > you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
> > blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
> > clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
> > (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
> > next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
> > writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
> > erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
> > fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.
> >
> Thank you. What you just summed up so nicely, is pretty much what in the
> meantime I also found on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-RW.
>
> It also was quite surprising for me to learn, that the phase changes of CD-RWs
> are supposed to be less long term stable than the life expectancy of the
> organic dye of regular CD-Rs. I alsways believed it to be the other way around.

It is also possible (quite likely) that exposing a CD-RW to the sun,
will flip bits on you. After all, the sun is really very much like a
laser. RW media is designed to allow changes, due to light (laser)
activity, so, of course, they are more prone to changing, even with
relatively low levels of light. CD-R is meant to be permanent, and
they are, relatively, permanent, but sunlight can also damage them.
The commercial (pressed) CDs are less likely to be damaged by light,
but direct sunlight causes heat, and that can damage them.

--
From the eComStation 1.2 of Doug Bissett
dougb007 at telus dot net
(Please make the obvious changes, to e-mail me)

Re: Oddities with CD-RWs

Am 07.08.07 15.12 schrieb Doug Bissett:
> On Tue, 7 Aug 2007 11:47:33 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
>
>> Am 06.08.07 18.26 schrieb Doug Bissett:
>>> On Mon, 6 Aug 2007 20:51:44 UTC, Wolfi wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 23.07.07 18.28 schrieb Doug Bissett:
>>>>> On Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:54:06 UTC, Wolfi
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> So could someone with a much deeper insight in CD burning in general and into
>>>>>> CD-RW in particular, please give some explanation, why a blank 'All' every now
>>>>>> and then has to be performed and what's going wrong with Fast Blanking in
>>>>>> these cases?
>>>>> Try going to:
>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.howstuffworks.com/
>>>>> and search on CD-RW. You should get a number of articles that explain
>>>>> how they work. After wading through that stuff, you will wonder why
>>>>> you don't need to do an erase all, every time, but one in ten seems to
>>>>> be adequate.
>>>>>
>>>> Thanks for that pointer.
>>>> Even though there was some quite interesting reading, I didn't actually find
>>>> there an article specifically dealing with fast and all/full blanking of a
>>>> re-writeable medium.
>>> I think it is actually there, but may be called something else, and
>>> you need to read between the lines to figure it out. Effectively, full
>>> blanking clears the bits on all tracks, while fast blanking only
>>> clears the bits on tracks where the disk information is stored
>>> (effectively, it blanks the directory area only), leaving it up to the
>>> next write to flip the bits for the rest of it. After a number of
>>> writes, some of those bits may not get completely flipped, so a full
>>> erase is needed to get them reset. Eventually, even a full erase will
>>> fail to get the bits reset, and then you need to replace the CD.
>>>
>> Thank you. What you just summed up so nicely, is pretty much what in the
>> meantime I also found on Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CD-RW.
>>
>> It also was quite surprising for me to learn, that the phase changes of CD-RWs
>> are supposed to be less long term stable than the life expectancy of the
>> organic dye of regular CD-Rs. I always believed it to be the other way around.
>
> It is also possible (quite likely) that exposing a CD-RW to the sun,
> will flip bits on you. After all, the sun is really very much like a
> laser. RW media is designed to allow changes, due to light (laser)
> activity, so, of course, they are more prone to changing, even with
> relatively low levels of light.

But judging from those articles, the temperature range needed to change
between crystalline and amorphous is some 200-600°C.
> CD-R is meant to be permanent, and
> they are, relatively, permanent, but sunlight can also damage them.
> The commercial (pressed) CDs are less likely to be damaged by light,
> but direct sunlight causes heat, and that can damage them.

I always considered the organic dye to be much more sensitive to be altered
by unwanted heat (car) and (UV-)sunlight exposure than the metal layer of
re-writeables.