"Open levels" does not inherently = better game. Oblivion VS NWN2 is actually a pretty good example of this. The NWN2 story is very engaging. You *care* about the other characters, even your own character (SPOILER - the Trial was one of the best parts of any RPG ive played in a long time. Lose the trial? you die. SPOILER over). Did Oblivion *have* a story? I cant remember, that's how lame and not-involving it was.

NWN 2 doesnt really have "levels" it has "areas". You can usually freely move between any of the area's on the world map during any given chapter.

Overall, I'm having no problem with what your saying about Oblivion but I do prefer open spaces. How open are the areas in NWN2 or are they linear?

If you want the illusion of a real world and less of playing a game, first and foremost, you must have the freedom to roam and explore. The reason to make a game linear is that the developer does not want to take the time to lay out the country side for you to explore. Instead they provide paths to and from each location of interest. As with MMOs in general I prefer wide open spaces because it mimics a real world. I also agree that linear games can be excellent, especially FPS, but in RPG if I have a choice I'll always choose the ability to really explore.

As far as the Oblivion story- how far did you get into it? The king is dead, he's got an illegitimate son who rises to the occasion and sends you on a variety of quests to help defeat the bad guys and permanently close the Oblivion gates. I as yet have not finished the main quest but I think I'm getting close. It seems no more lame to me than any other RPG story.

I do have a little problem with why you start out in jail. I don't really remember the stated reason and then you end up tagging a long with the King and then helping him. The game does allow you to be a thief and join the Dark Brotherhood. Nothing says you have to help the good guys, but I do wish ES4 had been designed so that if you are going to be given urgent tasks, there are consequences if you ignore them.

I just think it was too difficult of a task for Bethesda to insert the kind of consequences into the game that you would expect to happen, towns being over run by Oblivion critters and destroyed similar to Kvatch. But I think I understand now that Kvatch was the exception, it was destroyed. It is as if, the other gates are open, but nothing is going to happen until the main assault on Bravil. And the main assult won't happen until you progress though the main quest to that point. So that is why nothing happens with these other gates. In a way it's like a scripted story.

Tetsuya, on December 21st 2006, 04:38 PM, said:

Oblivion wasnt much of an RPG. you werent playing a role, really. The other characters were all interchangeable, and the core story was so laughably lame you could ignore it. NWN2, KOTOR, and KOTOR2 are all relatively linear games. They also have stories that make me want to play them, and care about the characters, and keep playing for hours after i should go to bed to see what the next plot twist is. you simply CANNOT say that about Oblivion.

Please explain why your not playing a role? As you gain fame more and more people know who you are, and Martin's people are very happy your there to help. In the Mage quests you directly help the establishment root out some problems in the province. Maybe because you've decided the story is not worthy, then it's not role playing?

The reason the main quest can be ignored is because Oblivion is more or less a static setting. There is no consequence for ignoring it. That is probably the biggest flaw of the game. But if you play along, there is an illusion of making progress against the bad guys. It's really no more contrived of a convention than giving you a world to explore but making you stick to the path. But despite this I'm having a great time questing in the Province of Cyrodiil. Pity me!

Some how NWN2 ended up under our tree! It's up and running and it has a very agreeable atmosphere.

When I played the original NWN, I was a sorcerer, a magic class that is not required to plan execution of spells in advance. But I have no experience with wizards. They must prepare spells in advance.

From a long list of spells, you move spells into a memorized (activated) slot. I'm looking over the character creation screen wondering if the wizard gives much more variety and strength when it comes to magic? Mostly I'm curious as to the relative strength and variety of spell casting when comparing a Wizard to a Sorcerer.
Anyone with NWN experience care to make a comparison of the different casting classes? I'd like to know how the magic classes balance against one another. Thanks!

I played NWN2 for about 5 hours and I can say it's an improvement over the original NWN in all most every way. The atmosphere of the game is great, and the story is keeping my interest. Being able to move the camera down near your characters looking ahead similar to WoW is very nice and immersive. Usually I'm not a fan of over abundant cut scenes, but I can tolerate them here. My personal preference is to be able to initiate conversation when I want to.

As to open levels, no they are not open. Every scene is more like the set of a stage play. The first town is a relative large area to run around in, but it's a tiny space compared to it's open-leveled cousins. You are very aware of fences, walls, mountains, streams, etc that are in place to keep you fenced in. When running through the swamp, you can't cross patches of water so you must stick to the path, but I still acknowledge it's a good game and it's something I can play despite it's flaws.

Now to the question I posted earlier today. I started both a Sorcerer and a Wizard character and ran them both through the first 2 scenarios which includes a dungeon. What I found is that the Sorcerer is an easier character to play because when charged up you get to use your selection of spells 5 or 6 times (when fully rested) but you have less overall spell variety than a Wizard.

The Wizard seems to move up faster, getting better stronger spells faster, but it seems like playing a wizard is more of a strategic character. Most of your spells are only good for 1-2 uses when fully rested and you only get to activate a smaller group of them, so you don't have full access to all of at any of your spells at any particular time, but I've got some pretty powerful area spells. I say strategic because I have to decide which spells to activate in advance and when is a good time to use my most powerful area spells. Usually that is on groups of mobs, but I don't really know when the next group is going to appear. BTW, from a visual standpoint, NWN2's spells put Oblivion's to shame.

As a sorcerer in the first dungeon, with a companion, my party handily took care of 7 lizard people without even raising a sweat. As a wizard, I used a different dialog line and fooled them into leaving me alone, so no fight there.

Alas, I'm still torn about which character I'm gonna continue with. Maybe both of them?
Any preferences when comparing casting classes?
Thanks!

in Tabletop D&D, (3.0/3.5, which i dont actually play) the design differences between the Sorcerer and the Wizard are much more pronounced - there are a LOT of spells, and Sorceror's only get a few of them, ever.

so, in a table-top sense, the huge benefit of getting more spells per day and not have to pre-memorize is offset by the fact that eventually, given time, a Wizard will be able to use every spell and a Sorceror will not.

In a lot of situations, lack of spells can hurt a Sorcerer. (so i need to get up that wall... hey, i have this handy Rope Trick spell, which will let me do that ... (Wizard) or (Sorceror) Well, looks like im screwed, 'cause all i have is a fireball or ten....)

In the CRPG world of Neverwinter Nights, though, it just isnt that way. There is very little reason NOT to play a Sorcerer. You get better spells per day, and dont have to memorize. Given that almost all of the spells that are useful are combat related, that's huge, and the ability to use Meta-magic feats *on the fly* is *HUGE*.

Sorceror's are combat casting deathmachines.

If i were playing Tabletop, id never play a Sorceror. In NWN, i'd never play a Wizard, because there is l ittle to no point in spell variety when a simple appliction of *more* of the same blaster spells will work just as well.

in Tabletop D&D, (3.0/3.5, which i dont actually play) the design differences between the Sorcerer and the Wizard are much more pronounced - there are a LOT of spells, and Sorceror's only get a few of them, ever.

so, in a table-top sense, the huge benefit of getting more spells per day and not have to pre-memorize is offset by the fact that eventually, given time, a Wizard will be able to use every spell and a Sorceror will not.

In a lot of situations, lack of spells can hurt a Sorcerer. (so i need to get up that wall... hey, i have this handy Rope Trick spell, which will let me do that ... (Wizard) or (Sorceror) Well, looks like im screwed, 'cause all i have is a fireball or ten....)

In the CRPG world of Neverwinter Nights, though, it just isnt that way. There is very little reason NOT to play a Sorcerer. You get better spells per day, and dont have to memorize. Given that almost all of the spells that are useful are combat related, that's huge, and the ability to use Meta-magic feats *on the fly* is *HUGE*.

Sorceror's are combat casting deathmachines.

If i were playing Tabletop, id never play a Sorceror. In NWN, i'd never play a Wizard, because there is l ittle to no point in spell variety when a simple appliction of *more* of the same blaster spells will work just as well.

A very helpful post. Thanks! For now I'm playing both of these classes (sorcerer/wizard) through 1 or 2 more levels to get a better feel for them. But at this point, I'm leaning to Sorcerer, just because of the raw power.

I'm trying to figure out if I need a new video card. I have a MacBook with a Mobile Intel 945GM Express. It looks to me like it has only 64 MB memory, and NWN2 really needs 256, but will get by on 128. Is this right about the Mobile Intel, or am I just looking in the wrong place?

Next, I've installed Boot Camp, and all of the DX9 tests work and all, but I get the error "Could not find any compatible Direct3D devices". Should that be fixed with a new video card, or will I be throwing money at a problem that has other roots?

Next, I've installed Boot Camp, and all of the DX9 tests work and all, but I get the error "Could not find any compatible Direct3D devices". Should that be fixed with a new video card, or will I be throwing money at a problem that has other roots?

Sorry, if you've got a macbook, you can't get a new video card, where would you put it?... plus, the old one is soldered in there.

I'm trying to figure out if I need a new video card. I have a MacBook with a Mobile Intel 945GM Express. It looks to me like it has only 64 MB memory, and NWN2 really needs 256, but will get by on 128. Is this right about the Mobile Intel, or am I just looking in the wrong place?

Next, I've installed Boot Camp, and all of the DX9 tests work and all, but I get the error "Could not find any compatible Direct3D devices". Should that be fixed with a new video card, or will I be throwing money at a problem that has other roots?

Thanks for any thoughts!

An integrated video card is not going to be good for any gaming. Especially since it shares RAM with the CPU.
You don't need a new video card you need a new computer.

I read through the entire thread and could not see anything about native playability on MBP. Anyone care to comment? I'm thinking about getting NWN2. I kinda miss rolling electronic dices....
Can we still install mods/campaigns/expansions as mac users just as we could in NWN1?
Any downfalls I should know about?