Welcome to The Bolter and Chainsword
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Javascript Disabled Detected

You currently have javascript disabled. Several functions may not work. Please re-enable javascript to access full functionality.

Dolchiate Remembrancer

Posted 17 November 2019 - 05:14 PM

The only issue with all is dust is that it can be planned for. D2 weapons galore and rubrics drop like flies!

This is my problem with it. If you're in cover, its redundant, and if they bring D2+ weapons, it doesn't work. Between the two, you're paying for a rule that doesn't work most of the time. When it does work though, its excellent.

It's why I use them in KT XD.
But realistically, I think they need to bring back the 7th ed invulnerable save rule.

Ahzek451

Posted 18 November 2019 - 11:59 AM

Ahzek451

+FRATER DOMUS+

+ FRATER DOMUS +

413 posts

Faction: Necrons, Thousand Sons

I would propose all is dust be changed to being negated on S8+ weapons. When it was all index's and 8th was still new, damage 1 weapons were more plentiful. Currently, we have seen an increase in not only D2+...but random damage which is also negates it. Weapon changes and new rulesets that see more Damage 2+ is a common sight now. But if you look at it, there are far less S8+ weapons. It would be a nice, non-game breaking change that would keep the rule sustainable. It would be nice to have a 2+/4++ vs a stalker bolt rifle eh? out of cover, at least it would be a 4++

CrystalSeer

Posted 22 November 2019 - 10:08 PM

Thanks, Kythnos. You are right. Word Bearers only, a relic that lets them know one additional power and add a bonus 1 to their casting rolls.

I'm actually a fan of this. The TSons supreme command with Ahriman was the only thing likely to get us nerfed in upcoming FAQ/CA. Making the sorcerer not TSons exclusive may take some of the pressure off.

Sonoftherubric21

Posted 23 November 2019 - 10:21 PM

So gents last night I had my first substantial game against the new Loyalist codex.

It was tactical objectives, standard 6 objectives placed before game.

Each list was 2k.

I had Ahriman on Disc

Daemon Prince with wings (holding DMC)

Terminator Sorcerer with Familiar and had the Helm for CP regen.

Rubric x10 (reaper)

Rubric x10 (reaper)

Rubric x10 (reaper)

Rubric x12 (reaper)

Helbrute with Missile/Las

Contemptor with Duel Twin-Las

Contemptor with Duel Fists

Contemptor with Butcher and Chainclaw

Salamanders chapter. *CRAZY* number of re-rolls. Stats matter far less with Salamanders.

He had 30 intercessors,

executioner,

6x Aggressors, (Flamers)

Adrax,

a Chaplain with Master of Sanctity,

A Libby,

A Redemptor,

Infiltrators x5

One of the piloted Redemptor chasis figures (can't recall name)

Primaris Lieu

Primaris Apoth

Hellblasters x5

and I am sure something I am forgetting given how many characters and overlapping auras he had.

Although he did win (4 to 6 in his favor), I am happy to report that our codex holds up VERY well against the new marine dex. Our Rubricae can trade with Intercessors on *close* to even footing.

Superior spell casting, mortal wound output, and sling-shotting buffs to various units makes up for lots of issues we have innately for being an ealier dex. Our lack of great strategems is a huge PITA but frankly the only major concern I have for us personally along with limited unit selection.

The entire game the Rubricae were trading with the Intercessors. And due to objective placement (and what we both drew from the deck) he literally couldn't sit in place and just pelt me from 30. Playing Objective games helps alot with the whole "Loyalist Castle firing at 30 inches" issue due to our bolters being 24.

All is Dust is *IMMEASURABLY* useful against new marines. I got it the majority of the game due to a huge amount of their shooting being just drowning torrents of D1 fire (but with solid AP values) and as such I found Rubricae are uniquely suited to handle this issue (mass intercessors is a very common build I keep seeing in my local metas so I can speak to that for sure) along with Redemptors just dropping TONS of dakka at str 4/5 but D1 shooting.

No goats this game because I specifically wanted to see how the Rubrics hold up and I will try out our bird-friends later. However, It WAS an uphill battle due to the new book(s)... having so many very good and useful stratagems from both the main codex AND the supplement. I can count on 1 hand how many "great" or even "good" stratagems are in the Thousand Sons codex, we make up for this by having a HUGE spell list and utility in that regard which is one reason I still think we hold up fairly well.

On the other hand my Salamander friend.....It felt like *EVERY TIME* I did something he would be like "Wait, I have a stratagem for that!" and it got tedious after a while just because we truly do not have many options. I am hoping that the eventual Thousand Sons update in PA attempts to fix this issue or at least addresses it.

We need an update obviously, BUT we aren't total scrubs against the "new hotness" lists you may see. Nice to see that we still have that potential.

The Blood Raven

Posted 24 November 2019 - 11:53 AM

The Blood Raven

+FRATER DOMUS+

+ FRATER DOMUS +

1,068 posts

Location:55408

Faction: Tau Empire

Having no goats, it was relatively common for me to take 40-50 rubrics when playing. But like Son', I found the stratagems and tactical objectives to be a difference between newer and older factions fighting each other. I'm glad to see a game prove out the theory that rubrics can hold their own against the new space marines. I do worry that the rumored 2w for rubrics (along with a point increase) will shift the meta towards more anti-rubric armies in general. But since I haven't played with my 'Sons much since this past February, I'm not overly worried right now.

Prot

Posted 24 November 2019 - 05:57 PM

Sorry Rubric, I was at an NHL game and the puck was going to drop and I had to read your post...lol. Poor excuse but I wanted to come back to this because....

I love seeing your success with Rubrics. I find them such an incredibly slow paint process, but I’d love an excuse to buy that new Start Collecting box, even though I don’t need Ahriman.

So I have to ask a cheeky question here... would you consider your opponent a fairly competent player?

I ask this because I go to my normal playing grounds and see nearly everyone is playing Loyalist Astartes. It’s crazy. I’m now seeing guys with hordes of assault Centurions from eBay.... metal Thunderfires. You name it. The play skill of these guys is all over the map.

Seriously.... I think I am the only true Chaos player ( out of any flavour) now at my GW and primary playing group.

I love Ahriman, Rubrics and Scarab Occult models. I just wonder how it could possibly stand to any Iron Hands or Ravenguard I’m seeing at the stores these days.

I find your dread choices intersting. Do you have a picture of any of these?
If you recall I was heavily favouring my single las/missile Helbrute in my 7th Ed, early 8th armies, but I sold that army.

You’ve got me thinking about Contemptors.

Have you thought about Butchers on Decimators? I am considering two of them but I don’t know if I will use them with Black Legion or Thousand Sons. Cheap and Daemon Keyword helps.

I may have to do a Forgeworld order. I have one painted Decimator right now in my Thousand Sons but he’s got dual Soul Burner Petards But he dies first thing usually before getting in range. ( maybe a second one of those for those ridiculous Iron Hands builds would be better since you can’t halve their damage?)

I love the idea of dumping Goats from the list too. If Cultists go down I’d rather use them. In this meta Goats are ina really tough spot.

Sonoftherubric21

Posted 24 November 2019 - 07:19 PM

Sorry Rubric, I was at an NHL game and the puck was going to drop and I had to read your post...lol. Poor excuse but I wanted to come back to this because....

I love seeing your success with Rubrics. I find them such an incredibly slow paint process, but I’d love an excuse to buy that new Start Collecting box, even though I don’t need Ahriman.

So I have to ask a cheeky question here... would you consider your opponent a fairly competent player?

I ask this because I go to my normal playing grounds and see nearly everyone is playing Loyalist Astartes. It’s crazy. I’m now seeing guys with hordes of assault Centurions from eBay.... metal Thunderfires. You name it. The play skill of these guys is all over the map.

Seriously.... I think I am the only true Chaos player ( out of any flavour) now at my GW and primary playing group.

I love Ahriman, Rubrics and Scarab Occult models. I just wonder how it could possibly stand to any Iron Hands or Ravenguard I’m seeing at the stores these days.

I find your dread choices intersting. Do you have a picture of any of these?
If you recall I was heavily favouring my single las/missile Helbrute in my 7th Ed, early 8th armies, but I sold that army.

You’ve got me thinking about Contemptors.

Have you thought about Butchers on Decimators? I am considering two of them but I don’t know if I will use them with Black Legion or Thousand Sons. Cheap and Daemon Keyword helps.

I may have to do a Forgeworld order. I have one painted Decimator right now in my Thousand Sons but he’s got dual Soul Burner Petards But he dies first thing usually before getting in range. ( maybe a second one of those for those ridiculous Iron Hands builds would be better since you can’t halve their damage?)

I love the idea of dumping Goats from the list too. If Cultists go down I’d rather use them. In this meta Goats are ina really tough spot.

My opponent is a very competent player but my regular meta stays away from the "tournament" lists. Most of us find that frustrating and hard to keep up with. We don't make "FAAC" or "fluffy at all costs" lists, we do make sure the lists are relatively competent but we don't go ham on top-tier meta builds. My friend has been a sallies player since Horus Heresy released Salamanders rules and him (and I) have both played 40k since our early teens.

No one in my local group of 6 are "Flavor of the month" players. None of us have the money or time for that.

As for the Contemptors I kept reading about how great they were and after using them I can see why. For what they bring to the table they are at a very reasonable points cost and they have very solid statlines. Their degradation isn't bad and they have an innate 5++ and 4++ in Melee along with self-healing if you can't hit them with a Temporal. I think Helbrutes are decent, and Contemptors are straight out good. The 2+ to hit is great as well. They don't really need babysitting to get the job done which is a huge boon.

I have 5 Thousand Sons Contemptors. 2 Osirions and 3 regular Thousand Sons specific ones from FW. Unfortunately until FW or GW give us "psyker dread" rules this means I have 2 that will go unused any game I want to spam them but they all have different load outs.

I haven't had the chance to use the Goats yet, but I think its a "drop from deepstrike" or bust issue due to just how MANY shots the new marines get. The sheer amount of firepower is ludicrous. Though the 30 goat webway drop has its uses for sure but foot goats? Tough sell ATM.

Skerr

Posted 24 November 2019 - 09:07 PM

Archaeinox

Posted 25 November 2019 - 08:32 PM

Archaeinox

+FRATER DOMUS+

+ FRATER DOMUS +

2,005 posts

I had an entire batrep sort of deal planned for my big 4200pt game vs. Emperor's Spears primaris and tbh it was over turn 2. I was just removing models after some smites went on repulsors and such. The most oof thing is he could have achieved the same results if he had just left a repulsor, a few squads of intercessors, the redemptor dreadnoughts and some inceptors off to the side on another table.

Both armies were painted and we got lots of Ooos and Aaaahs during the day but deployment was the only fun I had and that sounds depressing. I dont even think he was using chapter tactics because he felt bad. It was wild. I intended this to be my preferred method of play now instead of events, but even this narrative game was frustrating. I should probably add that I didn't fail a single psychic test the entire game, with 18ish psykers dropping powers each turn. A few perils, but everything went off. None of it mattered. It was incredible.

CrystalSeer

Posted 26 November 2019 - 09:13 AM

CrystalSeer

+FRATER DOMUS+

+ FRATER DOMUS +

610 posts

I had an entire batrep sort of deal planned for my big 4200pt game vs. Emperor's Spears primaris and tbh it was over turn 2. I was just removing models after some smites went on repulsors and such. The most oof thing is he could have achieved the same results if he had just left a repulsor, a few squads of intercessors, the redemptor dreadnoughts and some inceptors off to the side on another table.

Both armies were painted and we got lots of Ooos and Aaaahs during the day but deployment was the only fun I had and that sounds depressing. I dont even think he was using chapter tactics because he felt bad. It was wild. I intended this to be my preferred method of play now instead of events, but even this narrative game was frustrating. I should probably add that I didn't fail a single psychic test the entire game, with 18ish psykers dropping powers each turn. A few perils, but everything went off. None of it mattered. It was incredible.

Sad to hear it was a bad experience. I find the game scales incredibly past around 2.5k, to the point where special considerations need to be made. The amount of firepower available in lists those size completely overwhelm the survivability of any unit in 8th, often making first turn and just bringing more guns definitive. Bare minimum, reserves and larger tables need to be in use.

In narrative its worth considering summoning daemons as well. Their survivability and ability to deploy all over the table really help shore up the TSons weaknesses.

I'm excited for rubric and scarab drops! *crosses fingers*

Seeing the Deathshroud go down so drastically is a shock. I think scarabs will assuredly get some form of drop seeing how other Terminators look to be going down.

I'm hoping to see this as well. My ten man scarab unit is my favorite squad, but its really hard to justify the cost most of the time. There was a time when terminator armor meant something, but 2 wounds doesn't help when most opponents can overcharge plasma with rerolls. Watching these guys go down to any deep striking plasma is sad.

nanosquid

Posted 26 November 2019 - 01:59 PM

I'm local to Arch and I can confirm they were using a 4x8 table, hammer and anvil style, and lots of reserves. It really didn't help.

I was two tables down getting thunder hammers jammed down the throats of my Iron Warriors by a friend's Space Wolves the same day.

Both of these were casual games with fluff-appropriate lists and nothing extreme. It's really sad how blatantly broken SM are at the moment. And remember that this was vs a chapter with only 1 chapter tactic trait to the main book's 2 or 3 (Spears), and one that doesn't even get doctrines yet (Wolves).