Sony and Nintendo have got to be pissed/scared. The iPad is a sales monster.

Nintendo might be worried since their focus is on the casual/family market, but I seriously doubt Sony has any concerns about the iPad. Their markets barely overlap at all.

I don't know about that. I've got a PSP. I would probably get a Vita, except I just can't justify it. I don't travel that often and when I do my iPad can fill in for the on-the-road gaming I would have used a Vita for. I'm going to bring along the iPad anyway for casual work support and recreation (videos, websurfing, etc) so it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a second expensive device along just to play games, when I can play decent, but not great games on the iPad.

Now as far as giving up my PS3 or XBox for the iPad, no, but the iPad is definitely a reasonable replacement for a PSP, Vita, DS, for all but the hard core gamers.

As it's currently constituted, Apple can't really replace any of the systems that I play games on (Wii/PS3/Xbox/3DS/Vita), due mainly to the fact that the touch controls are a bitch for me to use but...

What if Apple just decides to make a console one day. Would anyone be able to stop them?

They jumped into the cell phone market and made a huge impact with one phone, for one provider.

Is there any doubt that they couldn't do the same in the console market?

I mean, essentially, all they would need to do is beef up the Apple TV and design a controller and it's over.

While I think that Apple is capable of coming up with a home console, they'd be a Wii-product vs a next gen product. Looking at the demands of todays games (and certainly our 360s and PS3s are aging) the hardware cost is gigantic, and unless you go the cheap route (which Apple does not tend to do), you're looking at paying markup on top of consoles where your competitors are willing to make up losses in licensing of games.

It's not like Apple to chase other peoples tails. The iPhone was the first "smartphone" to change the dynamic in terms of touch screen and design. Heading into the home console market with the big three is a challenge. It took Microsoft years to become one of those three, and the easy pickings that Sony had in getting to market (PSone was the right hardware at the right time) means that Apple would want to invest a significant amount of money to flog something that doesn't have immediate appeal.

The iPad was gigantic, and an extension of the phone (right down to the iOS).

Bringing games to people means putting out hardware, and then also providing compelling software and wooing developers. Their biggest push into gaming (besides 99cent apps - with few games being worth more than a few dollars) is Steam games.

Gabe's Steambox might give them the leverage, but there are three fierce competitors. What does Apple have to offer the games industry that they aren't fulfilling right now?

« Last Edit: March 21, 2012, 01:59:19 AM by Purge »

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I don't know - while Apple tends to get lambasted for not being cheap, I think the Apple TV might provide them with an unexpected point of entry to the market. See, pretty much everyone in their target market already has at least one controller - their touchscreen phone, or iPad. Heck, you're already part of the way there with airPlay - just make it something that's centered more on the Apple TV as the main interface, throw some hardware into it to push polygons, and they could probably do a device at $199 that uses the phone or iPad as a controller and plays a decent game, with the benefit of an app store infrastructure to boot, or one at $299 that's really competitive in terms of hardware and processing power. Maybe have optional 'real' controllers (which probably would be absurdly overpriced), but I think a real part of the appeal could be that a regular Apple consumer who already has a current iPhone and a previous-gen one or a Touch rambling around would immediately have two really capable touchscreen, tilt/gyro-aware controllers.

Sony and Nintendo have got to be pissed/scared. The iPad is a sales monster.

Nintendo might be worried since their focus is on the casual/family market, but I seriously doubt Sony has any concerns about the iPad. Their markets barely overlap at all.

I don't know about that. I've got a PSP. I would probably get a Vita, except I just can't justify it. I don't travel that often and when I do my iPad can fill in for the on-the-road gaming I would have used a Vita for. I'm going to bring along the iPad anyway for casual work support and recreation (videos, websurfing, etc) so it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a second expensive device along just to play games, when I can play decent, but not great games on the iPad.

Now as far as giving up my PS3 or XBox for the iPad, no, but the iPad is definitely a reasonable replacement for a PSP, Vita, DS, for all but the hard core gamers.

You are in other words a casual user. You're not the target audience for the Vita, at least not at this stage of its lifetime. My point stands. Sony isn't planning on regaining the entirety of the PSP market because they know that is practically impossible at this point.

It depends on the game - for plenty of games, I think a real, physical controller would obviously be great, and I think if Apple got serious about gaming they'd need to standardize on a button set. But for other games, I really think the phone or tablet could be ideal - think about a You Don't Know Jack game, or similar, using the touchscreen as both your buzzer and to press the right answer. Or a bigscreen Angry Birds, controlled by your touchscreen. Or a kart racing game that just has gas, brake, and tilt to steer.

I don't see any reason for Apple not to support the phone as a controller if they ever go to bigscreen gaming, even if they standardize another control scheme too - after all, anything that ups the number of potential controllers, even if they sort of suck, for multiplayer games is a good thing in my book.

Actually I was thinking that the Ipad combined with a physical board game could probably herald a resurgence in electronic board games for the 21st century. Games like Dark Tower or the Omega Virus could be reskinned into an Ipad App which serves as the electronic centerpiece and PDFs to print and cut out to be the boardgame and playing pieces.

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Sony and Nintendo have got to be pissed/scared. The iPad is a sales monster.

Nintendo might be worried since their focus is on the casual/family market, but I seriously doubt Sony has any concerns about the iPad. Their markets barely overlap at all.

I don't know about that. I've got a PSP. I would probably get a Vita, except I just can't justify it. I don't travel that often and when I do my iPad can fill in for the on-the-road gaming I would have used a Vita for. I'm going to bring along the iPad anyway for casual work support and recreation (videos, websurfing, etc) so it doesn't make a lot of sense to have a second expensive device along just to play games, when I can play decent, but not great games on the iPad.

Now as far as giving up my PS3 or XBox for the iPad, no, but the iPad is definitely a reasonable replacement for a PSP, Vita, DS, for all but the hard core gamers.

You are in other words a casual user. You're not the target audience for the Vita, at least not at this stage of its lifetime. My point stands. Sony isn't planning on regaining the entirety of the PSP market because they know that is practically impossible at this point.

Given my rather large gaming budget, and the fact that I own three portable gaming consoles (PSP, DS, and Gameboy SP) along with five consoles (XBox 360, XBox, PS3, PS2, and Wii) and a gaming PC with a $300-400 graphics card, I'm really not sure I can be considered a casual user.

I'm a user that would have purchased a Vita if Apple hadn't come out with the iPad. So I am exactly the kind of user that was in the Sony Vita's target market that just isn't going to buy their product anymore.

If their markets barely overlap at all it's because Apple has completely eaten up a large part of their market and as you say it will be impossible for Sony to recover it.

The worst news for Sony and Nintendo isn't that Apple sold 3 million new iPads, it is that 3 million people just gave their old one away to a family member or sold one cheap.

Good point.

I think the thing that Sony and Nintendo have to be the most concerned about is the fact that large amounts of people are more than willing to drop at least $500 on a iPad at the drop of a hat, but their own devices (Vita and 3ds) which cost much less and don't have new versions coming out every year, are nowhere near that level of success.

I really don't know what they can do about it either. Apple just seems to have found the perfect balance of a nice large screen and cheap games that are lots of fun to play.

The worst news for Sony and Nintendo isn't that Apple sold 3 million new iPads, it is that 3 million people just gave their old one away to a family member or sold one cheap.

Good point.

I think the thing that Sony and Nintendo have to be the most concerned about is the fact that large amounts of people are more than willing to drop at least $500 on a iPad at the drop of a hat, but their own devices (Vita and 3ds) which cost much less and don't have new versions coming out every year, are nowhere near that level of success.

I really don't know what they can do about it either. Apple just seems to have found the perfect balance of a nice large screen and cheap games that are lots of fun to play.

I think part of that is that, despite the complaints about Apple being such a closed platform (just the one App Store unless you jailbreak), it's (relatively) trivial for someone with an idea and some passion to make an iOS app, and a professional app development shop can really work in volume - heck, I'm making one now, just because nobody was making the game I wanted to play. XBLA has the indie games section, but otherwise you're basically not going to see low-effort, low-cost games coming from indie devs on those platforms - the best you'll do is smaller games from bigger publishers at 5 or 10 bucks on something like PSN. That basically means you're not going to see the obscure efforts, or the size of ecosystem that allows for publishers to try and fail and fail and fail and then suddenly hit it big. If something like Angry Birds or Draw Something is one in a hundred thousand releases, the Vita or 3DS would have to be insanely lucky to see one runaway success like that.

Letís take a look at the numbers: Sony has sold 1.2 million units of the Vita hardware to date, according to data from late February of this year. The Nintendo 3DS sold around 3.6 million units of the 3DS worldwide in its first month of availability. Apple sold 3 million iPad 3ís in its first three days of availability.

Let those numbers sink in for a bit, because theyíre staggering. This is a product that starts at $500 and goes up from there. This is a product that many claim is a slight evolution over existing concepts. The public showed up at retail in force to buy the latest shiny device from Apple, even after the somewhat muted response from the press. This is the most successful iPad launch in the history of the line, meaning that demand for iPads is going up, not down. On the other hand, the market for portable, dedicated gaming hardware seems to be softening.

Again, it's hitting on the point I brought up that has to concern both Nintendo and Sony. People are paying at least $500 a pop for this and have no problems doing so, but people were freaking out when the Nintendo 3DS was $249, even though it did something that no other portable system, or home console for that matter, had ever done before. It had 3D without glasses. That should have been a huge thing, but instead people were like "$250???? No thanks Nintendo!"....but the same people (me included) will gladly shell out at least twice that amount for the latest iPad.

Same thing can be said about the Vita, but to a lesser extent, since people didn't seem to make that a big deal about the price....at least certainly not to the extent of the 3ds at $249.

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Not only that, but Apple has succeeded in creating what we considered to be impossible in the desktop console market: The iPad is 100 percent digital. There are no physical copies of games and software to sell at retailers, no software has to be shipped, and no one gets a cut but Apple. While this move would anger retailers if it happened with the Vita, Apple has covered every angle. The company owns its own successful line of retail stores to sell its products, and large retailers like Best Buy love iPad products because they get to sell them next to high-margin items such as headphones, cases, and covers.

Another huge advantage for Apple and one that I am sure Sony wants to have happen for them. I am not sure about Nintendo, since they seem to be years behind in online connectivity.

It's hard to compare, Hetz, because the Apple hardware does much more than play games. I own the new iPad, a Vita, and a 3DS. I don't do much gaming on the iOS, but I play my 3DS and Vita a metric shit ton. So, yeah, people freak out about paying $250 for a dedicated gaming machine, but don't on a tablet that can read magazines, books, comics, allow you to write documents, watch movies, listen to music and play games. People are willing to pay more because it does more and most people don't buy the iPad thinking about games first. It's just a nice additional thing the iPad can do. That's why they aren't quite in the same market and I would argue that owning an iPad doesn't mean you're out of the market for a 3DS or Vita. Owning an iPad might make you out of the market for an Android tablet, though, and that's mostly where Apple's battle is.

Remember, however, that the iPad is a hell of a lot more than a gaming device, which is something the DS and Vita can't really say. While I love the fact that I can game on my iPad, I never in a million years would have spent $500 on it if that's all it did. It's a productivity tool first, entertainment/gaming device a distant second. In fact, I'd venture a guess that the percentage of dedicated "gamers" on iPad are actually pretty low. For example, there are 7 people on my team who got the new iPad, and I'm the only one of the 7 who is likely to buy a single game other than Angry Birds. They may purchase the occasional .99 game for their kids, but it's not seen as a gaming device for them in any way, shape, or form.

EDIT: Grue and I are apparently sharing a brain wave today...his is quicker than mine.

It's hard to compare, Hetz, because the Apple hardware does much more than play games. I own the new iPad, a Vita, and a 3DS. I don't do much gaming on the iOS, but I play my 3DS and Vita a metric shit ton. So, yeah, people freak out about paying $250 for a dedicated gaming machine, but don't on a tablet that can read magazines, books, comics, allow you to write documents, watch movies, listen to music and play games. People are willing to pay more because it does more and most people don't buy the iPad thinking about games first. It's just a nice additional thing the iPad can do. That's why they aren't quite in the same market and I would argue that owning an iPad doesn't mean you're out of the market for a 3DS or Vita. Owning an iPad might make you out of the market for an Android tablet, though, and that's mostly where Apple's battle is.

I see your point and do agree in part....but Sony and Nintendo both desperately want people to think of their machines as something other than just game machines. Nintendo I guess somewhat less, but just cause they don't have the online infrustructure that Sony, Apple and Microsoft do. If they did.....you bet they would be jumping on the "app" bandwagon like Microsoft and Sony have. As is, they both do have web browsers. Sony has Facebook, Twitter, Foursquare etc...and want to have lots more apps for the Vita.

Also, I think we also have to be considering the iPad as more and more of a real game system. With games like Infinity Blade and Mass Effect out now and selling very well, I really don't see how it is just a "casual" game system anymore. Also, power wise....the new iPad has quite a beefy CPU and a quad core GPU in it. It also has 1GB of RAM. Apple could really wipe the floor with Sony and Nintendo (more than they already have) if they could just figure out someway to get past the "touch" control barrier. Some people just can't do it. I have no problem playing Mass Effect via touch controls....but others have major issues. That is the one and pretty much only drawback to the iPad (or tablets in general).

For me personally, the iPad already has a significant leg up on any of the other portable gaming platforms. They released a high-quality RPG right out of the gate for the new iPad (Chaos Rings II), and it they just announced Baldur's Gate is coming as well (with potentially other Infinity Engine games to follow).

For RPG fans, both Vita and DS are a barren wasteland, with little on the horizon to change that.

I agree, when the controls work and make sense the iPad (especially the new one) is it delivers an incredible value because the games are priced for digital distribution where everyone can win except the brick and mortar retailer. Add in killer Windows 8 tablets coming with USB (controllers!) and HDMI and mobile/portable/living room/PC gaming will blend together some.

For me personally, the iPad already has a significant leg up on any of the other portable gaming platforms. They released a high-quality RPG right out of the gate for the new iPad (Chaos Rings II), and it they just announced Baldur's Gate is coming as well (with potentially other Infinity Engine games to follow).

For RPG fans, both Vita and DS are a barren wasteland, with little on the horizon to change that.

Yeah, in terms of RPGs, the iPad really does kill the Vita and DS. With Baldurs Gate coming out now, that is just icing on the already incredible cake.

Yeah, in terms of RPGs, the iPad really does kill the Vita and DS. With Baldurs Gate coming out now, that is just icing on the already incredible cake.

Not so fast. The 3DS can play DS RPGs (which there are a lot of good ones) and the Vita can play PSP RPGs (which also have a decent amount of good ones, though the DS had better). I've yet to play a good RPG on the iPad, but I also haven't tried Chaos Rings, either. Final Fantasy Tactics would count, I guess, but I can play that on Vita and can play the FF remakes on DS.

Yeah, in terms of RPGs, the iPad really does kill the Vita and DS. With Baldurs Gate coming out now, that is just icing on the already incredible cake.

Not so fast. The 3DS can play DS RPGs (which there are a lot of good ones) and the Vita can play PSP RPGs (which also have a decent amount of good ones, though the DS had better). I've yet to play a good RPG on the iPad, but I also haven't tried Chaos Rings, either. Final Fantasy Tactics would count, I guess, but I can play that on Vita and can play the FF remakes on DS.

Final Fantasy I/II/III is also on the iPad. So is Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. There are also a ton of old school SNES style RPG's for the iPad/iPhone. I'd say it's pretty much the same as the DS in terms of RPG's, though being able to play on a huge touch screen is a big plus....at least for me.

Final Fantasy I/II/III is also on the iPad. So is Chrono Trigger and Secret of Mana. There are also a ton of old school SNES style RPG's for the iPad/iPhone. I'd say it's pretty much the same as the DS in terms of RPG's, though being able to play on a huge touch screen is a big plus....at least for me.

So DS has all that Square stuff, plus newer stuff they've put out, plus the Etrian series, plus Suikoden, plus a host of others (Rune Factory, I could go on...). Definitely more than the iPad. Oh, and if you mean old school stuff like Zenonia, those control horribly with the virtual pad. Same with Mage Gauntlet. Same with Ravensword, which everyone raved about. I hate virtual controllers, which is why I pretty much stick to iOS games that use swiping and tapping to control. SRPGs would be good for that. I might check out Chaos Rings 2, though. Never tried the first one.

Well, I'll be honest - I grabbed the iPad (New iPad? iPad 3? Who thought this was a good name?) solely as a gaming device (along with everything else it does). I had a 3DS and sold it because not only was it just too small to hold, but I just don't imagine myself using it. Same with the Vita. Keep in mind I owned both the DSl and the PSP, so it's not like I haven't been playing portable games for ages.

I just personally see that iPad/iPhone gaming is where things will be going in the future. Not dedicated portable gaming consoles where said games cost $40-$50 a pop.

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The 3DS flubbed with introducing a screen half-the-size shortly after releasing the DSiXL.

Sorry, but I couldn't convince the GF to back to a smaller screen - the DSiXL stayed and the 3DS went back to the store.

As for the "New iPad" and 3 million used iPad 2/1's being sold, that statement begs the question.

I purposely held off on an iPad2 because the iPhone had retina display and there was no way I was going to buy the iPad2 and then have to replace it within a year. I know a bunch of people who did the same thing - problem is, the world has changed and I'm *still* not willing or able to shell out 500+ for the New iPad - they needed to release it now as their competition is coming up this year with new Android tablets, Windows tablets, etc.

If the others fail to impress me, I might buy one for Christmas. I certainly don't need one right now.

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"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson

If the others fail to impress me, I might buy one for Christmas. I certainly don't need one right now.

I think you are wise in your thought process if you feel this way. I've had an iPhone and iPad since Day 1 with every iteration of both. I also develop apps for iOS and I really think that Windows 8 is going to make a big difference. Porting things written in Microsoft tools (most games) is going to really speed up what comes to us on Win8 tablets and the specs and resolutions are standardized.

That said, you can get an incredible amount of gaming out of a $50 App Store gift card. If you are patient almost anything can be had for <$5.

I think the big thing is, that while it is a gaming tablet, it most certainly justifies itself in other ways. I doubt Win8, or Metro, is going to kill desktop gaming (unlike StarDocks' ridiculous presumptions). You can still buy $500+ video cards.

Laptops did not kill the PC, neither will Tablets. Tablets have a place, and perhaps the smartphone should be more worried, or those people who produce paper to make notepads and pencils. Because we won't need to write in the future, we will simply type.

Speaking of which- typewriters died because they were antiquated, not because PCs were cheaper, or more widely adopted. Console gaming, hand-held nintendo/sony games are not antiquated so long as touch controls are as crappy as they currently are, or do not dedicate hardware to pushing GAMING to the edge.

Do I think the [Vita/3DS] is essential to the development of gaming? Probably not. Do they potentially enhance it? For sure.

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"If it weren't for Philo T. Farnsworth, inventor of television, we'd still be eating frozen radio dinners." - Johnny Carson

I would not agree that iPad equals DS as an RPG platform. However. The fact that we are even debating that speaks huge volumes for how far iOS gaming has come in the last couple of years.

I'm disappointed with the 3DS, which continues to collect dust day after day. The best game on the system (for me) was a downloadable title (Pushmo). One of the main reasons I bought it was because I knew we would eventually get Layton, but it is taking forever, there is almost nothing else I have remote interest in, and the most recent Layton was a big disappointment for me. And I knew what the hardware was/wasn't before I bought it. I had already spent hundreds of hours with it before it released.

I debated buying an iPad 3 over the weekend, then I remembered I need new tires and this morning I got a $400 phone bill.

Ain't happening any time soon

$400, ackk! Where are you calling Ridah? Back when I was in college it costs $1/minute to call overseas and I definitely did get a few phone bills that big. But these days even my overseas calls are dirt cheap.