Posted - 02/03/2012 : 06:41:15 With Sam Gagner having a stellar night (4 goals, 4 assists) against the blackhawks do you think he is safe from trade or simply heightened his value?

40 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First)

slozo

Posted - 01/09/2016 : 15:11:20

quote:Originally posted by Alex116

Slozo......THIS the thread you were talking about? Don't see Beans on board the Gagner train so much but Guest4178/4377 (same guy) surely was.

Just re-read the 3 pages and I recall this convo, especially the part about how calm this "guest" was/is. I'm pretty sure he'd admit defeat if he were around today considering Gagner's past 2-3 seasons and his current state.

Judgement: SLOZO WINS! And it wasn't even close......

Good dig-up, and no, there was an earlier thread on Gagner where Beans had taken up the flame . . . but, not worth digging it up, Beans already stated he was wrong on it, no worries bud. We can put it to bed now.

Don't Leaf me hanging, Buds!

Alex116

Posted - 01/05/2016 : 16:36:48 Slozo......THIS the thread you were talking about? Don't see Beans on board the Gagner train so much but Guest4178/4377 (same guy) surely was.

Just re-read the 3 pages and I recall this convo, especially the part about how calm this "guest" was/is. I'm pretty sure he'd admit defeat if he were around today considering Gagner's past 2-3 seasons and his current state.

Seems like a 1-1 trade is a bit low, I feel that Oilers could've at least gotten a low draft pick out of this too, like a 5th or 6th rounder or even a conditional pick or something.

Obviously can see where the oilers are heading with their draft picks and trades, more size and skill. We'll have to see if the chemistry is there on ice.

Purcell is a big body, but he doesn't particularly play like one. Have a look at his PIMS the past 4 seasons (14, 12, 16 and 10) and he doesn't seem to be the type to muck it up much? I've a buddy who's a TBay fan and he loves this deal for the Lightning. He called Purcell "soft" and "a waste of a sizeable guy".

Can't wait to see how this turns out for these guys!

ETA....WOW! Just got a text from my buddy regarding Gagner not lasting long with TBay! He's already been shipped to Arizona for a 6th round pick? Not sure if that's correct???

markliso

Posted - 06/29/2014 : 18:38:32 Done Deal.

Gagner to TB for Purcell.

Seems like a 1-1 trade is a bit low, I feel that Oilers could've at least gotten a low draft pick out of this too, like a 5th or 6th rounder or even a conditional pick or something.

Obviously can see where the oilers are heading with their draft picks and trades, more size and skill. We'll have to see if the chemistry is there on ice.

I didn't introduce Kadri to this thread, but thanks for pointing out that he's "your boy!" :) I think the 24-year-old Gagner will improve in years to come, but I'm not ready to call him "my boy." :)

And I see you're now measuring performance in 5-game segments. You really should start a new thread "Gagner - Day To Day Stats By Slozo!" :)

As for Gagner's performance this season, surely you have to admit his production has been impacted by his injury. This is a reason, not an excuse. No different than numerous other players who have missed games due to injuries, whether they're star players like Stamkos , Letang or Gaborik, or players like Stephen Weiss or Mike Callamerri. If anyone made pre-season predictions on these players (or selected them in a hockey pool), these predictions are affected by their injuries. (Of course.) And especially for a player (like Gagner) who returned at less than 100% healthy. Does this make any of the prognosticators wrong? Or is this really a matter of bad luck? What if Gagner suffered a career-ending injury? To that, would you say "Ha - told you he wouldn't get any points! :)

Here's another example of a player affected by missed games - David Clarkson, a player very familiar to Leaf fans. Here's your pre-season prediction on Clarkson:

"From Clarkson, I predict - based on his past numbers, and his potential linemates, coupled with it being a new team . . . my "stats plus gut" preditction: 28g, 15a, 43 ptsAt worst, I'll be satisfied with 20 goals, 15 assists."

I would give anyone a partial out on their points prediction for Clarkson. He's missed 12 games due to suspensions, and seven games (so far) due to an elbow injury, so you can't blame him for not getting points in games he didn't play. But with only 8 points in 36 games played, this tranlates into only 18 points in a full 82-game season. So anyone predicting 40 or more points out of Clarkson this season would be off the mark by quite a bit.

And if you excuse Clarkson's production (or lack thereof) because he missed the first ten games of the season, you have to extend the same "rustiness" to any player coming back after missing ten or more games. But here's the key difference between Clarkson's return and Gagner's return. Clarkson was 100% healthy when he returned to the Leafs lineup (after his suspensions), and Gagner was not. (The latter which has been pointed out many times before.)

I will leave it others (and in already established thread) on whether the soon to be 30-year-old Clarkson is a long-term bust. But if anyone thinks the Gagner has reached his peak, I say check back in a few years. A point I've restated numerous times! Why can't you wait Slozo? I can! :)

P.S. I'm Guest 4178.

Actually, there is one difference, a BIG one, between your Clarkson example and Gagner . . .

. . . and that is, I'm willing to admit I was wrong. Just like many (if not most), I was dead wrong on Clarkson being able to get his 40 points and 20 goals. Period.

Done.

Finito.

You dig?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest3792

Posted - 02/03/2014 : 09:27:47 Just heard L.A. Is interested in Gags on the radio..

Guest4377

Posted - 02/02/2014 : 19:47:52I didn't introduce Kadri to this thread, but thanks for pointing out that he's "your boy!" :) I think the 24-year-old Gagner will improve in years to come, but I'm not ready to call him "my boy." :)

And I see you're now measuring performance in 5-game segments. You really should start a new thread "Gagner - Day To Day Stats By Slozo!" :)

As for Gagner's performance this season, surely you have to admit his production has been impacted by his injury. This is a reason, not an excuse. No different than numerous other players who have missed games due to injuries, whether they're star players like Stamkos , Letang or Gaborik, or players like Stephen Weiss or Mike Callamerri. If anyone made pre-season predictions on these players (or selected them in a hockey pool), these predictions are affected by their injuries. (Of course.) And especially for a player (like Gagner) who returned at less than 100% healthy. Does this make any of the prognosticators wrong? Or is this really a matter of bad luck? What if Gagner suffered a career-ending injury? To that, would you say "Ha - told you he wouldn't get any points! :)

Here's another example of a player affected by missed games - David Clarkson, a player very familiar to Leaf fans. Here's your pre-season prediction on Clarkson:

"From Clarkson, I predict - based on his past numbers, and his potential linemates, coupled with it being a new team . . . my "stats plus gut" preditction: 28g, 15a, 43 ptsAt worst, I'll be satisfied with 20 goals, 15 assists."

I would give anyone a partial out on their points prediction for Clarkson. He's missed 12 games due to suspensions, and seven games (so far) due to an elbow injury, so you can't blame him for not getting points in games he didn't play. But with only 8 points in 36 games played, this tranlates into only 18 points in a full 82-game season. So anyone predicting 40 or more points out of Clarkson this season would be off the mark by quite a bit.

And if you excuse Clarkson's production (or lack thereof) because he missed the first ten games of the season, you have to extend the same "rustiness" to any player coming back after missing ten or more games. But here's the key difference between Clarkson's return and Gagner's return. Clarkson was 100% healthy when he returned to the Leafs lineup (after his suspensions), and Gagner was not. (The latter which has been pointed out many times before.)

I will leave it others (and in already established thread) on whether the soon to be 30-year-old Clarkson is a long-term bust. But if anyone thinks the Gagner has reached his peak, I say check back in a few years. A point I've restated numerous times! Why can't you wait Slozo? I can! :)

P.S. I'm Guest 4178.

slozo

Posted - 02/02/2014 : 05:41:20

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

To be clear, wearing the full faceshield is not the major impediment. (It does hinder a player's view though. I noticed this with Gagner, and I also noticed it more recently with Alex Burrows.)

What was clearly meant (and understand by most) was how difficult it is for a player to come back (especially early) after breaking their jaw. Joshua summed it up best, and from personal experience to boot: "I have received an injury similar to this in the past and outside of the obvious facial damage, is the loss of body mass one gets by the inability to eat solid foods for a while. I am not making excuses for Gagner here, but I would wager a bet he doesn't fully recover from the injury and body mass/strength loss until closer to the playoffs, which for the Oilers means the offseason. Again not trying to make excuses here, but I wrote off his season at the point he received the injury due to the nature of the injury."

As for the examples provided, Roenick and Burrows are very good examples of players coming back after suffering a broken jaw. Doesn't matter if the examples took place 15 years ago or 15 days ago. A broken jaw is a broken jaw, and the NHL is the NHL. Why is coming back from a broken jaw 15 years ago different than a player coming back from a broken jaw 15 days ago?

I contend that Gagner's early play was affected by him coming back early from breaking his jaw. You don't, and that's okay. (You don't even have to agree with the examples I've provided.) I also contend that Gagner has picked up his play since he discarded the full faceshield a month ago, and it's factual that his play has improved in the month of January. But these are still small snapshots of the overall picture of Gagner's future development.

I continue to contend that we will see Gagner's improved play the next 2-3 seasons (and for seasons to come), a contention which I've repeated many times in this thread (I believe the "count" is now up to nine), for which I'm perfectly okay to wait and see this out.

If you want to monitor his daily play (or monthly play) in the interim, feel free to start a new thread ("Gagner: Day to Day by Slozo"), so you can take your obsession with Gagner to the next level! :)

I realise you are trying to turn this around to "my obsession" . . . when in fact, I am simply calling you on the predictions YOU made. And you have yet to admit you have been wrong even in the slightest . . . so far, the excuse is injury, faceshield . . . what else? Oh, you only go back to your "over the next two or three seasons" line, conveniently forgetting your this year's predictions as well.

Just admit it! You were wrong about this year . . . already we can see that.

Sam Gagner, C 44gp - 6g 17a 23ptsAnd your contention that now Gagner will be picking up the pace, sans shield and now getting back into the groove? And on top of that, the Oilers have 3 wins out of their last 5 games?Sam Gagner last 5 games: an underwhelming 2 assists.

cough.

Now my boy KADRI, who we were comparing to Gagner before . . . I'll remind you of his stat line for this season/last 5 games.Nazem Kadri, C 53gp - 15g 25a 40pts (this'll be Gagner's stat line probably by the end of the year)Last 5 games - Leafs have won 3 out of last 5: 3g, 6a, 9 pts (he's SO hot now, that Kadri!)

Anyways,I'll keep harping on this until you admit your prediction was wrong. Your initial prediction STARTED with the whole, "he's gonna be at the 60+ pt level next season and beyond", going from his statistical blip in the half season, and taking into account his age, as opposed to years playing.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Alex116

Posted - 01/30/2014 : 12:56:53

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

I should (finally) sign up! I enjoy the dialogue (and opinions) on this site. About to leave town for a few days (and away from e-mails, etc.), so in absence of any responses, I reserve all of my rights! :)

You should sign up. Call yourself 4178/4377 (i think that's your other guest number?). At least then you'll get rid of the "guest". Lol.....

Guest4178

Posted - 01/30/2014 : 10:53:57 I should (finally) sign up! I enjoy the dialogue (and opinions) on this site. About to leave town for a few days (and away from e-mails, etc.), so in absence of any responses, I reserve all of my rights! :)

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 01/30/2014 : 10:51:05 Guest 4178, Slozo is a very astute individual. IMO he is trying to goad you into signing up.

Guest4178

Posted - 01/30/2014 : 10:05:19 To be clear, wearing the full faceshield is not the major impediment. (It does hinder a player's view though. I noticed this with Gagner, and I also noticed it more recently with Alex Burrows.)

What was clearly meant (and understand by most) was how difficult it is for a player to come back (especially early) after breaking their jaw. Joshua summed it up best, and from personal experience to boot: "I have received an injury similar to this in the past and outside of the obvious facial damage, is the loss of body mass one gets by the inability to eat solid foods for a while. I am not making excuses for Gagner here, but I would wager a bet he doesn't fully recover from the injury and body mass/strength loss until closer to the playoffs, which for the Oilers means the offseason. Again not trying to make excuses here, but I wrote off his season at the point he received the injury due to the nature of the injury."

As for the examples provided, Roenick and Burrows are very good examples of players coming back after suffering a broken jaw. Doesn't matter if the examples took place 15 years ago or 15 days ago. A broken jaw is a broken jaw, and the NHL is the NHL. Why is coming back from a broken jaw 15 years ago different than a player coming back from a broken jaw 15 days ago?

I contend that Gagner's early play was affected by him coming back early from breaking his jaw. You don't, and that's okay. (You don't even have to agree with the examples I've provided.) I also contend that Gagner has picked up his play since he discarded the full faceshield a month ago, and it's factual that his play has improved in the month of January. But these are still small snapshots of the overall picture of Gagner's future development.

I continue to contend that we will see Gagner's improved play the next 2-3 seasons (and for seasons to come), a contention which I've repeated many times in this thread (I believe the "count" is now up to nine), for which I'm perfectly okay to wait and see this out.

If you want to monitor his daily play (or monthly play) in the interim, feel free to start a new thread ("Gagner: Day to Day by Slozo"), so you can take your obsession with Gagner to the next level! :)

slozo

Posted - 01/29/2014 : 20:46:50

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

Patience Slozo, patience!

You do realize that Gagner has the same number of points (23) as Steve Stamkos at this point in the season! Who could have predicted that! :)

I'm kidding of course, but while Stamkos is out injured, you do know that after missing the first 13 games of the season, Gagner returned (early) from his injury, and played two months with a full faceshield. As Joshua stated, very hard coming back from such an injury. Take a look at Alex Burrows. While his points production wasn't very good before his injury, he has zero points in six games with the faceshield. It's gotten so bad, teammate Zack Kassian is starting to taunt him! :)

I'll give you another example of a player returning to the line-up wearing a faceshield. Jeremy Roenick wore one after taking a vicious elbow from Darian Hatcher late in the 1998-1999 season. Roenick was a point a game player that season, but in the playoffs, he tallied exactly one point in seven games as Phoenix was eliminated from the playoffs.

So if you want to measure Gagner's play this season, I would give him a pass on his earlier play. If you want to measure him on his recent play, Gagner has tallied ten points in the month of January. (9 points in his last 11 games.)

He has more points in January than Ryan Kesler (6), Patrick Kane (7), Matt Duchene (8), and the same number of points in January as the Sedin twins – combined. (Henrik's played 9 games, and Daniel has played 13 games.) And those guys are going to the Olympics!

Maybe Matt Duchene will come up with a "mystery ailment" or fake an injury so Gagner can take his place at the Olympics!?! :)

Speaking of injuries, my question to you (do you think Gagner is injury prone?) was based on your earlier comment "If Gagner stays healthy (ha ha)." Not sure what you meant by that, but I don't expect (or need) an answer!

I still maintain (and predict) improved performance out of the 24-year old. And I repeatedly restate let's check back in 2-3 seasons. If you want to measure him month to month, or day to day, or start a thread "Gagner day to day stats," that's your prerogative. :)

I'm perfectly okay to wait 2-3 seasons (or more) to see how Gagner is doing. He will be 26 or 27 years old at the time!

I'm just sorry I didn't bet that big money you were willing to shell out for the 50 point mark. That would have been a risky bet for me, despite the fact that he had never hit that point level before . . . but now, upon reflection . . . it's realy not risky at all.

You made some great excuses, though. Have to hand it to you. Going back to use Jeremy Roenick and his faceshield as an example of why Gagner DIDN'T HAVE HIS BREAKOUT SEASON THIS YEAR is a classic, for sure.

You'll fit in great here!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest4178

Posted - 01/29/2014 : 10:33:42 Patience Slozo, patience!

You do realize that Gagner has the same number of points (23) as Steve Stamkos at this point in the season! Who could have predicted that! :)

I'm kidding of course, but while Stamkos is out injured, you do know that after missing the first 13 games of the season, Gagner returned (early) from his injury, and played two months with a full faceshield. As Joshua stated, very hard coming back from such an injury. Take a look at Alex Burrows. While his points production wasn't very good before his injury, he has zero points in six games with the faceshield. It's gotten so bad, teammate Zack Kassian is starting to taunt him! :)

I'll give you another example of a player returning to the line-up wearing a faceshield. Jeremy Roenick wore one after taking a vicious elbow from Darian Hatcher late in the 1998-1999 season. Roenick was a point a game player that season, but in the playoffs, he tallied exactly one point in seven games as Phoenix was eliminated from the playoffs.

So if you want to measure Gagner's play this season, I would give him a pass on his earlier play. If you want to measure him on his recent play, Gagner has tallied ten points in the month of January. (9 points in his last 11 games.)

He has more points in January than Ryan Kesler (6), Patrick Kane (7), Matt Duchene (8), and the same number of points in January as the Sedin twins – combined. (Henrik's played 9 games, and Daniel has played 13 games.) And those guys are going to the Olympics!

Maybe Matt Duchene will come up with a "mystery ailment" or fake an injury so Gagner can take his place at the Olympics!?! :)

Speaking of injuries, my question to you (do you think Gagner is injury prone?) was based on your earlier comment "If Gagner stays healthy (ha ha)." Not sure what you meant by that, but I don't expect (or need) an answer!

I still maintain (and predict) improved performance out of the 24-year old. And I repeatedly restate let's check back in 2-3 seasons. If you want to measure him month to month, or day to day, or start a thread "Gagner day to day stats," that's your prerogative. :)

I'm perfectly okay to wait 2-3 seasons (or more) to see how Gagner is doing. He will be 26 or 27 years old at the time!

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 01/28/2014 : 20:11:11 Cant believe your still picking on poor Gagner, Slozo. The boy just got the full face shield off and is being thrown back and forth though the lineup in winger and centerman position while he regains his game. I don't expect him to end the season at last seasons points per game, but I do expect an improvement over his current ppg. If his winger experiment works and he is a deadline pickup from a team like Pittsburg, Chicago, Toronto or Montreal looking for depth, his ppg could go thru the roof

slozo

Posted - 01/28/2014 : 07:32:26

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

I'm still here – not hiding. :)

You have my response, which I provided on January 6th. I think Gagner's play has improved recently since he removed the full face shield. I think he will finish up the season okay, but once again, my prediction on Gagner's future progress in not just this season, but future seasons to come. Once again, he's only 24 years old, not yet near his prime or peak.

And you still haven't answered my question, which I posted on the same date. Do you think Gagner is injury prone?

You think he will finish up the season ok . . . more or less than 50 points? 60 points?

Is "okay" your breakout season?

Dude - you were jumping out of your seat to lay big money on over 50 points!!! You were practically guaranteeing that he'd get over 60 points in some big breakout season!

And trying to put the shoe on the other foot here - asking me if he's injury prone?!? What the heck kind of question is that - what do I care? I guess he would say he's not injury prone at this point . . . so? How does that change your prediction of a breakout season, with everyone piling in about how great the Fabulous Sam Gagner is going to be this year . . . ?!?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Alex116

Posted - 01/27/2014 : 16:38:13 Slozo, a couple of 8pt games will get him right up there.

Guest4178

Posted - 01/27/2014 : 11:53:01 I'm still here – not hiding. :)

You have my response, which I provided on January 6th. I think Gagner's play has improved recently since he removed the full face shield. I think he will finish up the season okay, but once again, my prediction on Gagner's future progress in not just this season, but future seasons to come. Once again, he's only 24 years old, not yet near his prime or peak.

And you still haven't answered my question, which I posted on the same date. Do you think Gagner is injury prone?

slozo

Posted - 01/27/2014 : 11:14:27

quote:Originally posted by Guest4178

It's guest 4377 here, and responding to Slozo's "I told you so."

I would love to register a bet with you, and for a significant sum! I think Gagner is very likely to tally 60-70 points next season (with the usual caveat, that he plays a full or near full season). And once again, I see a continued incline in his production, where he will be a point a game player for a number of seasons to come, when he gets closer to an NHL player's peak production years, 24, 25, 26 and 27 years of age.

So to take your bet (prediction) that "Gagner doesn't get over 50 points next year," I would take that bet. I know it was a shortened season, but Gagner's extrapolated points (over 82 games) works out to 65 points. You think he's going to revert back to being a 50 point (or less) player at the time and age players usually get better. (Gagner turns 24 this summer.)

As for "barely acknowledging" his tail off in production in finishing up the season, it was you who earlier stated that smaller sampling sizes are less significant. ("31 pts in 33 games tells you he's a point a game player now. It's a shortened "half" a season. It's 33 games. Get a grip.")

If 33 games was not a measuring stick, then why suddenly do 12 games make a big difference?

Once again, my prediction on Gagner's future success is not limited to this year or next year. Let's check back in 2-3 years.

...

I'm okay to put this debate on hold (it's the playoffs after all), and I will gladly check back with you in 2-3 years! (Or the end of next season to see how Gagner is doing by then.)

So, where are you guest?Hello?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

slozo

Posted - 01/27/2014 : 11:05:01 Is it still too early to talk about Sam Gagner, and the fact that he is NOT, under NO CIRCUMSTANCE, going to have his breakout season this year?

Because I don't doubt that Gagner COULD get hot for a week, two week period, where he suddenly gets 10 or 12 points or more . . . but it'll still only bring him somewhere close to 50 points when all is said and done.

Anyone, anyone?Breakout happening?

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

slozo

Posted - 01/10/2014 : 17:35:52

quote:Originally posted by JOSHUACANADA

Ok Slozo here is a direct competitor to Gagner which we have compared in length to Gagner:

Gagner 33 g 17 points .515ppg. 2nd on team in ppg and 7th on the roster due to only playing 33 games, which 15 of them he should have been at home on the IR.

Gagner is recovering from a season ending injury and his ppg are heading north with 4 points in his last 5. He is currently playing just below his career average ppg, but again is climbing.

Kadri, outside of a suspension, has 2 points in his last 5 and is heading south in his ppg. Kadri's last years stats say he should be just under a ppg and this year he was suppose to improve on it. Currently he is playing below his career average and again heading south.

Forgetting the comparison here for a second, whats the hate on for Gagner?

No hate, just an opinion. Always has been, always will be.

It's a 50 pt player at most who is extremely streaky, and shows occasional flashes of outright stardom, followed by nothingness. I don't see more than 60 points in him, ever.

And I do see more than 60 pts in Kadri, I can nearly guarantee it.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest3792

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 12:52:24 2nd to Alex116 - His Value is not exactly the same as last year. He had an 8-point night. Oiler's could of traded him more easy and got more for him after that then they could right now. Real talk

3nd Gagner's Value - Forget the name for a second and you will see 2007 6th overall pick is currently in his 7th season of his NHL career & is only 24 years old. He was a consistent 40+ point player his first 5 season's until last year he earned 38 in 48 games and another 20 in Austria (Lockout Season). He has never missed more than 14 games. He is a smaller Center with possibly a better shot at sliding in on the wing (which the Oilers are finally trying him out against PIT, some are saying to try to showcase him). I would say that's some pretty decent value and all though 29 teams won't be biting at the door for him I bet a lot of those 29 GM's thought about Gagner on their team.

Alex116

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 12:45:13

quote:Originally posted by Guest3792

1st to Slozo, It's not that Gagner is a 'throw in player', In fact quite the opposite. I think he would be the main attraction. The whole deal though is the Oiler's situation. They Need A) A Legit #1 D-Man, B) A Big top-6 Center, C) A starting Goalie. Gagner is not worth any of these things by himself. The Oiler's would have to add picks, prospects and/or lesser valued players to add one of these.

Well said. Exactly what I was getting at and you worded it perfectly. He's far from a "throw in" but he's not yet a stud himself. His potential mixed with his age is worth something.

Guest3792

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 12:28:40 1st to Slozo, It's not that Gagner is a 'throw in player', In fact quite the opposite. I think he would be the main attraction. The whole deal though is the Oiler's situation. They Need A) A Legit #1 D-Man, B) A Big top-6 Center, C) A starting Goalie. Gagner is not worth any of these things by himself. The Oiler's would have to add picks, prospects and/or lesser valued players to add one of these.

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 11:47:05 Ok Slozo here is a direct competitor to Gagner which we have compared in length to Gagner:

Gagner 33 g 17 points .515ppg. 2nd on team in ppg and 7th on the roster due to only playing 33 games, which 15 of them he should have been at home on the IR.

Gagner is recovering from a season ending injury and his ppg are heading north with 4 points in his last 5. He is currently playing just below his career average ppg, but again is climbing.

Kadri, outside of a suspension, has 2 points in his last 5 and is heading south in his ppg. Kadri's last years stats say he should be just under a ppg and this year he was suppose to improve on it. Currently he is playing below his career average and again heading south.

Forgetting the comparison here for a second, whats the hate on for Gagner?

Alex116

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 10:39:19

quote:Originally posted by slozo

Yeah - his value has plummeted, at this point. He's literally a throw-in player on a bigger deal at this point . . . just another warm body.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I disagree. While his value isn't sky high, I don't think it ever really was and figured he'd be part of a package deal to begin with. I won't go to the extent of calling him a "throw-in" or a "warm body" by any means, but he's certainly not gonna fetch the big defenseman the Oilers seem to covet all on his own.

I'm sure those involved in either trading him or trading for him would cut him some slack after the injury he suffered at the start of the year! IMO, his value is exactly the same as it was one year ago.

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 08:02:40

quote:Originally posted by slozo

quote:Originally posted by Guest3792

Ok so back to the original topic. 'Likelihood of a Gagner trade'. I have been hearing his name get tossed around lately. Nothing that makes me think a deal is in place. All though I think he is probaly near the top of the tradeable list for Edmonton. My Guess would be a package deal with 1st round pick 1014, any other picks, defensmen or defense prospects for a stud d-man or big center.

Yeah - his value has plummeted, at this point. He's literally a throw-in player on a bigger deal at this point . . . just another warm body.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

If that is his current value then the Oilers should keep him. You never know if he has another 8 point game in him and be back in fantasy hockey good books ;)

slozo

Posted - 01/09/2014 : 07:19:37

quote:Originally posted by Guest3792

Ok so back to the original topic. 'Likelihood of a Gagner trade'. I have been hearing his name get tossed around lately. Nothing that makes me think a deal is in place. All though I think he is probaly near the top of the tradeable list for Edmonton. My Guess would be a package deal with 1st round pick 1014, any other picks, defensmen or defense prospects for a stud d-man or big center.

Yeah - his value has plummeted, at this point. He's literally a throw-in player on a bigger deal at this point . . . just another warm body.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest3792

Posted - 01/08/2014 : 13:05:44 Ok so back to the original topic. 'Likelihood of a Gagner trade'. I have been hearing his name get tossed around lately. Nothing that makes me think a deal is in place. All though I think he is probaly near the top of the tradeable list for Edmonton. My Guess would be a package deal with 1st round pick 1014, any other picks, defensmen or defense prospects for a stud d-man or big center.

markliso

Posted - 01/08/2014 : 12:17:31 I like you 4178.

JOSHUACANADA

Posted - 01/06/2014 : 19:12:43 I have to agree with the guest here. Sam Gagner isn't what I would call injury prone. I had my doubts that Gagner would return to form after the jaw injury. I have received an injury similar to this in the past and outside of the obvious facial damage, is the loss of body mass one gets by the inability to eat solid foods for a while. I am not making excuses for Gagner here, but I would wager a bet he doesn't fully recover from the injury and body mass/strength loss until closer to the playoffs, which for the Oilers means the offseason. Again not trying to make excuses here, but I wrote off his season at the point he received the injury due to the nature of the injury.

Guest4178

Posted - 01/06/2014 : 14:52:28 By the way, when you stated "If Gagner stays healthy (ha ha)," are you implying that he's injury-prone? Or are you suggesting harm will come his way? :)

Up until this season, Gagner has played in 414 out of 458 of his team's games. This works out to over 90%. No iron-man, but hardly injury-prone.

And when Zach Kassian's errant stick broke Gagner's jjaw, are you suggesting he has a glass jaw?

Or have you taken a personal stake in this topic so far that you would employ Kassian (or any other player) to take out Gagner? :)

Guest4178

Posted - 01/06/2014 : 12:33:32 I thought we were going to wait 2-3 years, not two months! :)

But if you want to use two months as a barometer, I will refer you to some very interesting observations made in another thread ("David Clarkson a bust?") comments you made about making assumptions or reaching conclusions on limited numbers of games played:

"Definitely a bit of a bust so far, no doubt.

But it's early, and simply looks like a "bad start" to me. Not horrible - he hasn't been a drag on the team or anything . . . he just hasn't added anything to it.

It's been 17 games for Clarkson only . . . remember that he was suspended for the first ten. He's currently on pace for a 10 goal, 14 assist 24 pt full season (he'll play 72 at most this year) . . . below what should probably be expected of him, for sure - but you can't pick and choose random 17 game samples from any player and tell me that's what he is, it can go both ways.

I think he'll get better, but that "better" may be a more actively involved player who will get 40 points in a full season, maybe 20 goals."

I will leave it for others to comment on Clarkson, but for those who use small samplings of games played, there's no doubt Clarkson is off to a bit of a slow start with the Leafs, for which he now (currently) only has 8 points in 31 games. But does this make him a bust for the next five seasons? Once again, I will leave this for others to debate.

Getting back to Gagner, I agree that he's off to slow start, but he missed the first 13 games of the season with a broken jaw. And until recently, he played with a full face shield, which has inhibited his play to a certain extent. Gagner was rushed back into the lineup after the Oilers poor start this season, and I think Gagner (and to some extent, his teammates) are getting used to their fourth coach (and system) in five years.

I still believe Gagner's future prospects are very good, and while I'm fine with checkups every two months (or every day if that suits your fancy),I think we will have to wait at least 2-3 years (or more) before we see this 24-year-old's peak performance on the ice, whether it is in an Oilers uniform or not.

As it relates to Gagner being traded (and getting closer to the original subject heading – "Likelihood of a Gagner trade"), on HNIC this past weekend, Elliotte Friedman said that "Sam Gagner's name is out there," and added that if the Oilers could find him a place where he would feel comfortable playing, he would be agreeable to a move. According to Friedman, Gagner does not have a formal NMC this season (Cap Geek shows it for 2014-2015 only), but MacTavish did verbally agree to discuss any potential trades with Gagner.

Maybe a change in scenery is best for Gagner (and the Oilers), but it depends on what the Oilers could get in return. And what another team thinks of Gagner's future potential, and not for the next two months, but for 2-3 seasons or more!

slozo

Posted - 01/06/2014 : 09:41:30

quote:Originally posted by Guest3792

quote:Originally posted by slozo

Hey, where are you guys?

Guest 4178 - come on now, please chime in with your great thoughts on Gagner's breakout season thus far.

JoshuCanada - you pile in too! Let me know how great you think Gagner's season is going.

Guest 6896 - would love your potent thoughts on how this Leaf fan was correct.

Really astounding stuff.10th in scoring on his last placed team, after 44 games of the season, in which he has played 31. If Gagner stays healthy (ha ha) and continues at his current pace for the remaining 38 games . . . he'd come somewhere close to 41 points! Maybe even 11 goals! Wow!!!

Come on all you "Gagner is breaking out in 2013/14" supporters . . . now is the time to start chiming in!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I wasn't one of these guest who thought Gagner was going to "breakout" but your whole argument gets killed when you put 'Simone Gagner'. You clearly must have been thinking 'Sam Gagner', right?

It was error, corrected.

Didn't kill my point in the slightest, but nice try.

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest2186

Posted - 01/06/2014 : 00:15:36 could be an epic trollololol

Guest3792

Posted - 01/05/2014 : 22:37:52

quote:Originally posted by slozo

Hey, where are you guys?

Guest 4178 - come on now, please chime in with your great thoughts on Gagner's breakout season thus far.

JoshuCanada - you pile in too! Let me know how great you think Gagner's season is going.

Guest 6896 - would love your potent thoughts on how this Leaf fan was correct.

Really astounding stuff.10th in scoring on his last placed team, after 44 games of the season, in which he has played 31. If Gagner stays healthy (ha ha) and continues at his current pace for the remaining 38 games . . . he'd come somewhere close to 41 points! Maybe even 11 goals! Wow!!!

Come on all you "Gagner is breaking out in 2013/14" supporters . . . now is the time to start chiming in!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

I wasn't one of these guest who thought Gagner was going to "breakout" but your whole argument gets killed when you put 'Simone Gagner'. You clearly must have been thinking 'Sam Gagner', right?

slozo

Posted - 01/05/2014 : 10:59:59 Hey, where are you guys?

Guest 4178 - come on now, please chime in with your great thoughts on Gagner's breakout season thus far.

JoshuCanada - you pile in too! Let me know how great you think Gagner's season is going.

Guest 6896 - would love your potent thoughts on how this Leaf fan was correct.

Really astounding stuff.10th in scoring on his last placed team, after 44 games of the season, in which he has played 31. If Gagner stays healthy (ha ha) and continues at his current pace for the remaining 38 games . . . he'd come somewhere close to 41 points! Maybe even 11 goals! Wow!!!

Come on all you "Gagner is breaking out in 2013/14" supporters . . . now is the time to start chiming in!

"Take off, eh?" - Bob and Doug

Guest6896

Posted - 05/04/2013 : 02:58:28 Don't try to talk common sense with a Leaf fan. You are wasting your time.