Magda has offered to paint the mural on the big wall before august. Since the cafe is looking super amazing right now with sanded floors and a new kitchen I think the time is right for a brand new awesome mural. which will inspire and amaze all. the only drawback is it may cost as mag's normally works for a relatively high fee. I think this is worth paying for.

so - I will try to come to the monday meeting. Someone remind me though. cause i am dumb.

I would love to see a new big mural. The A0 is an interesting idea but isn't really doing it for me to be honest. I was looking at some of pogos pictures of the forest when mikey's mural was up, mmmnnn. It looked fucking good.

0 x

"We all tend to idealise kindness and tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves infested with losers and nutcases." Sebastian Horsley

it would be about £200 and the money would be well worth it. M's stuff is amazing and look -

if we're going to have an artist's space then we need to have top-quality art on display in a room as lovely and amazing as the cafe could be. Seeing the transformation of the kitchen --- I am hopeful.

In theory - a great looking room will encourage other artists to come and do things (free / not free) in our amazing space AND lower the quotient of weirdo-fuck which would (i hope) be a good thing in everyone's eyes.

ages ago martin i and others had a long chat (well, numerous) about the Forest effect. What keeps many good people away is the fact that their work hangs in what I'd lovingly call a "cluttered" space and what others might describe as a "shit-hole." The goal of FOH - in my opinion - should be to contain the natural state of mess which the forest lives in --- creating a space that is attractive to hang out in and to display work in.

Right now - I'd say we're closer than we've been in a long time. Awesome! Having done the floors is a start. Cleaning the walls and re-painting the stage and cleaning up the shutters will be a huge help and i'd consider magda's work an investment in the space on par with doing the floors. we know it will be good quality, attract interest, and remind people we are as much a space for serious artists as we are for hobby-ists and emerging artists.

This is probably part of a larger debate - I am sure - i should shut-up now. Will try to be at the meeting / some meeting.

if it gets something of inspiring quality up on the wall , of which this wall has been lacking for quite sometime . then i am all for it . The money spent is not too much considering what you are getting And in magda case she done lots of work for free over years . giving the forest some wonderful images .

its pretty hard for anyone to survive creatively giving there work away for free . Mostly creative people work in other jobs to survive . limiting the amount of time doing creative projects and thus quality . if we want to support the arts then a small token of money here and there is not so bad . am sure anyone we pay are not making a profit but are merely surviving using any money to further they chosen subject .

the quality of submissions that i have seen for the mural wall over the years has been pretty poor . This may not just be a lack of interest in doing something for free , but by the time commitment of them that are seeking to obtain submissions . its really is something that takes a lot of energy or skill . again this is like any creative project it takes time . passion for the subject matter and skill .

£200 for a mural by Magda in my opinion is a massive bargain as her stuff is amazing.

dangerously prone to the dreaded forest "everyone is an artist" delirium.

completely agree. High quality art is essential in keeping the place looking amazing me thinks and lets face it there is a lot of great artsists in the Forest or people who come to the Forest..they just need to be made aware of the fact that there are possibilites for them to do mural work etc. Ideas should be submitted similar to the way the gallery runs and chosen by the Forest peeps...or maybe you can have a voting system online to get more people visiting the site?

The clamp down in colours debate has gone on before (check out the gold room thread) and again, i think, a more universal colour scheme is really important to keep the place looking nice. I often feel that a lot of the backlash against ideas about art and colurs etc revolve around the fact that the Forest idea/ethos to be open to lots of people to contribute but do they all have to contribute at the same time? Surely there is a fine line between quirky and ugly and i think sometimes the mish mash of things just makes the place look dirty. I also think that too many people think that because they work in the Forest a lot it gives them the right to put there own artwork up or just go ahead painting something and this is one of the reasons the place is so random, sometimes random in a good way but sometimes in a bad way. The Forest needs to meet a compromise between crazy independance and the ability to be welcoming to new people...after all the place needs to make money!Maybe it would be good for the Front of House team and other teams to sit down together and decide on a colour pallete for the place? And remember if you want amazing art on the walls then i personally don't think that the room be painted a bright garish colour- let the art create the space and look.

oh and I forgot to mention...the Mural art oppurtunity should be advertised for what it is- A damn good oppurtunity for artists to reach a large and constantly evolving audience. It may be free but think of the exposure! SELL IT TO THEM! Guaranteed you'll get higher quality submissions if people relaise just how good an oppurtunity it is, Magda's work will hopefully inspire so good submission too as they may see the standard has been set!

Oh and make sure mural artists get info and exposure on the website and maybe a little thing on the wall telling people who did it, what their website is etc.

Not really my place to step into these decisions these days, so I'll keep it quick.

I think we need to be really careful about paying people for stuff like this. Of course Madga's art is worth it, that's not really the question. But I think it opens a big fucking can of worms about ethos, who gets paid/who doesn't and all that jazz. Martin's point about 'day job' artists is well taken, but artists aren't the only ones who do this and I don't think Forest is in any position to suddenly start paying everyone whose work deserves to be paid for.

On the other hand, a relatively easy way to get around this might be to make this a monthly or quarterly grant. I feel like the grants are one small way we've been able to help contribute to personal artistic (and other) projects. But even there I remember some debate in the past about something like a 'living stipend' being included in the grant...

I think we're all concerned about this "can of worms" --- at least I am. I kind of - mentally - consider this a grant. However, take a point from Events. Normally, we don't pay travel or expenses. However, there is the odd time where somebody sees something amazing and thinks --- this needs to be at forest. At that point, we have a budget for which to offer performers a chance to not lose any money on coming up to edinburgh to entertain or enlighten us. This also happens when we need people like external moderators for meetings, large workshops etc. Basically, it seems to me that the forest is (and should be) able to pay for things we (collectively) want. So long as there is a consensus decision, so long as it benefits the organization in some way, and so long as (gulp - subjectively) the work merits it --- I think it is not totally out of bounds to offer money for some things. As the artist will need to take a week (or more) off from doing other (paid) projects and since the forest is looking so awesome these days, it seems vital to get an artist in to paint something we will all love and treasure. In essence, i think this is no different than offering a band to travel. Essentially, we're paying a non-commercial rate in this instance - so that the forest can look fully amazing and so that the artist can book the time to do the job at the risk of losing other work.

Again, as long as there is discussion and agreement --- i think this is fine. However, we do need to continually consider Shannon's points. In this case, I feel (and it seems others agree) that we are making a good, considered, decision. And I, for one, am very happy with that.