My point is that your personal dislike is clear in your posts which in itself doesn't matter since everybody does it to a degree, but every time i mention something about AI you jump on me as if what i'm saying is

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Boy you 2 sure are missing some really good comments right now. 'Scoe this is one of the best Piston Discussions we've had around here in years. Think about it, we're not talking about some Pie In The Sky players who some fans seem to think can go from DNP-CD's to Finals MVP's in the same season. We're debating whether AI or Rip starts or even stays, we're deabting on whether we're really going to move foward or keep playing the same old ball. SOme folk like the old days (and thats fine) some like you and I have grown weary of the CORE and are ready for overhaul. It's really exciting, U-2 should relax and enjoy it!!!!

Do teams even respect Sheed's 3 point shot anymore? I think teams are quite happy to let him have them these days.

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Excellent point. Since Sheed's return teams seem to concede that shot to him now. They've decided that it's better for Sheed to launch trey's then to allow Stuck and AI to carve up their defense going to the hole.

Untrue. They are playing small ball because Joe made this trade. The stature of AI as a player dictates that he is a starter and plays alot of minutes. So does Rip. So does Tay. Three starters who are used to playing the whole game.

Raxrets, don't you dare make AI the scapegoat of this mess. It's not his system, he's trying to work with the new system. Oh, AI isn't scoring. Oh, AI isn't making plays. Oh, AI isn't isolating to the basket like we want. Oh, AI isn't passing the ball and he is using too much time dribbling.

Can't have it both ways man. AI is not the scapegoat. He was a known entity.

Blame Joe if you dont' like AI's game and his attempt at playing our game, whatever the hell it is.

Another game where we made more FG's, but lost at the FT line. The strange thing is that we only committed 2 more fouls than NO, but they made 12 more free throws than us.

So, we were +6 from the floor and -12 from the line.

In the 4th quarter, there were a few key events that really hurt us. 1) the backcourt violation/ 8 second call, 2) AI's baseline drive and turnover leading to a NO fastbreak dunk, 3) Chris Paul's accidental bank-shot that he had to force over Dyess, and 4) the bad foul call on Stuckey when CP3 drove and tried to get contact.

Besides the FT differential, the other important stat to look at these days is the offensive rebounding #'s. With SB, these are our main 2 weaknesses. The good news was that in tonight's game, we actually won the rebounding battle thanks to Sheed on the defensive glass and Dyess and Maxiell going crazy on the offensive glass. 17 offensive boards! Is that our highest of the season maybe? Dyess and Maxiell ripped down 10 offensive rebounds in only 42 combined minutes. Tonight's game was another example of how hard Dyess is playing in the 4th quarters. He's absolutely possessed and goes to work in the paint. It's a little embarrassing to see Sheed chucking from deep while Dyess is laying his body on the line to clean up the messes. And speaking of Sheed, who needs a "heat check" after inadvertantly banking in a 3-pointer? That was lame. What about that shot made him think he was going to make the next one?

Back to Max. The job that Maxiell did raises the obvious questions here... why the DNP's? And why not stick with him in tonight's game when he's having a great rebounding night and scoring from point blank time after time after snatching other Pistons' misses?

Max, Amir, and AA were the only Pistons in the + tonight, and their minutes were all snipped. Foul trouble was not a factor and doesn't even matter with Max and Amir since they never play more than 30 no matter what their fouls look like. If one fouls out, just play the other. That is the luxury of having 2 of the same guy.

And just a few thoughts on Rip. His supposed inability to create his own shot is a little overstated at this point I believe. Rip showed a lot of versatility tonight. He hit 2 three-pointers, both contested. He his 3 mid-range jump shots. He got to the rim 3 times, once on a drive, once on a fast break where he kept it himself, and once on a great slash to get the inbound pass. He also went to the line 3 times for 5 FT's.

Sheed- 8 free throws in his last 13 games. He must not have the energy anymore to play the right way.

Not sure what the SB stats look like, but I'm guessing this is going to be one of the uglier ones when the #'s come out.

Well, in response to other posters that are correct, I have threadjacked this one, so I'll cool it with any attempt to discuss how Allen could be better utilized by Detroit and why.

As for this game, I saw a bunch of guys counting something or other.

One guy was counting how many screens he had to see before he could pass the ball. One guy was counting how many games and days he had left before he leaves. One guy was counting how many fibers tore in his groin tonight in comparison to last night's. One guy was counting his shots and he gleefully ran around the court, as a starter, of course. One guy counted his fouls and then said, "whew!" Then he counted how many minutes he was on the floor and then said, "waaah!" One guy counted his points and rebounds and then began to pray that it was enough to play the next game. Then there was Rasheed and he only counts in threes.

But none of them were counting on the coach and that's why they all looked depressed. All but one and apparently, he's the one that truly counts.

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Please don't leave.

EDIT: On another note, it looks like some people here really need to step away from their TV. Just a token very few people, and its reflecting in peoples' posts.. I won't say anything else. I'm doing it right now and it's doing me wonders. Well, today I had to work, so I was bailed out, I guess. You guys are not going to see any changes, because Dumars doesn't have the balls to either fire Curry or call the shots, it seems.

For this year, it's hopeless. Bad news is that we'll be watching this sinking ship all year. Good news is that Michael Curry will be a one-and-done.

Back to Max. The job that Maxiell did raises the obvious questions here... why the DNP's? And why not stick with him in tonight's game when he's having a great rebounding night and scoring from point blank time after time after snatching other Pistons' misses?

Max, Amir, and AA were the only Pistons in the + tonight, and their minutes were all snipped. Foul trouble was not a factor and doesn't even matter with Max and Amir since they never play more than 30 no matter what their fouls look like. If one fouls out, just play the other. That is the luxury of having 2 of the same guy.

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I miss seeing all these guys play more minutes. I love watching AA play defense. Who cares if Amir fouls out. We need his particular talent, if it comes right now with fouls we need to get over it. We need exactly what he has to offer. Rebounding and his sheer youth on the court makes me feel like we might improve in a funny way.

JMax was exciting tonight. If we gave our youth half the opportunity we give the vets...we'd at least have the posssibility of a future, even this season. It's not that I don't like our old core. I just really like seeing when these guys come into the game how they handle it, how they do. And even if we lose, it's more interesting.

Sorry if I left anyone out. To me this games not worth much of a summary. Start designing better plays in crunch-time where you get high percentage shots. Or better yet - find a lineup that works so we are not always scrambling late in games.

Stuckey should go back to the bench. That will save face for AI and Rip and he is the only guard anyway who could carry the offensively challenged second quarter unit we have had in many games. Stuck has been deferring to the vets something fierce the last few games. He had an open three in the fourth, passed to Rip I think who tried to pass down low to Dyss--turnover. That is why our offense is so bad. Players are afraid to shoot when the shot is there.

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That about sums it up. If Stucky is not going to play like Stucky anyway, then he should go back to the bench. AI can play the point. Himat did the research on page 7 if anyone still does not believe that AI has successfully played the point before. He was playing point when we played them in the 2nd round of 03.

We just did not give it enough time. It would have came around eventually - at least by now anyway. During the game when AI is at the point they look a lot better now.

If we had to deal Billups to Denver, believe it or not we probably would have been better off if it had been Carmelo for CB instead of AI...or even Nene and JR for CB as we would have least got a big man and a shooter off the bench.

The AI -Rip deal is not working with Stuckey as he never knows who pass to and now just defers because he probably has been instructed to by that lameduck (I hope ) coach...

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Mistake or not whats done is done. 2nd point is a lot of thats on the coach. Perhaps he is telling him to defer.

Kwame Brown, who has played 719 less minutes than Sheed, has 6 more FTA on the season. Nobody will ever praise Kwame for the qualities above, which just makes Sheed's numbers all the more embarrassing.

I've pretty much given up on this season. I'm excited to see what Joe will do to re-tool in the off-season. I'm not going to make anyone the escape-goat, but some things have got to change and I'm beginning to think it starts with Sheed.

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Perhaps Sheed is starting to slow down. At any rate when jacks up a 3 or whatever is it his fault if he is just playing the options.

Actually, we have never given AI any kind of chance to be our point guard. None at all. You see, we went to the Kwame / Sheed pairing, which is a disaster for most of the time. (Although we beat the Lakers with it since it fit that game as well as two others.)

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No we did not give AI at the point enough of a chance. On Sheed/Dyess. They were the starters last year - was it always a mistake?

Where do the people on the two lists fall under your assessment of elite scorer and a high volume scorer? How many people on that list didn't/don't have the offense centered around them? Which ones didn't/don't take the majority of the shots on their team?

You see, Allen's two years in Denver seems to put him smack dab in the middle if not rather close to many people on the two lists.

His two seasons in Denver, he had the opportunity to play alongside another high level player in Carmelo. In Philly, not so much. Even still, his career FG% is 43%.

Would you care to guess how much higher it would be if his layups weren't layups that sometimes roll off the rim, but dunks like Kobe, Dwyane, LeBron or Michael's? Would you care to guess how much lower any of the guys on that list would be if they were six inches shorter or didn't play with Shaq or Scottie or Rik Smits or Joe Dumars or Jason Kidd or Gary Payton?

Allen's shooting and shooting % has always been underrated and even if it weren't, it's not why Detroit is having problems right now.

Star Jones, question is not whether AI or anybody is "volume" scorer or whatever, question is: does current "Pistons configuration" enable to use AI's abilities in the best way?

My answer is: AI can be only AI because this is the only way to use AI effectively.

there is no point to try to mold AI to something "half-Rip" or "half-playmaker-shooter". Why this team should need something like half-Rip when they already have one true Rip! Oh, and this roster already contains one half-playmaker-shooter.

AI playing some Rip's plays is fun to watch but it really is not his game.

I never said Tony Parker was an elite PG. I said Tony Parker can effectively play the position.

So now Chris Paul is only a PG because he doesn't have tatoos and he's not coached by Larry Brown? Makes sense.

Why are you saying no? LB tried to get CB traded but couldn't. Chauncey is not just sucking up to LB. He is a completely different player. Molded or not, he would never gotten to the point he is at today. He knows that. It's not empty flattery.

What are you talking about? The line-up wasn't changed until the WAS game which was before two embarrassing losses, one to the Knicks, and the choke job against PHI. We played 14 games with AI at PG.

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So are you telling me you prefer AI starting at SG along with Rip and Stuckey instead of having AI at PG and either Rip or Stuckey at the 2?

And by the way there is no way AI is going to the bench. He is starting because he is the best player on the team. The only way he goes to the bench is if he tells the coach "I am going to the bench."

The team finally comes out with a little bit of a chip on its shoulder and still loses. When you get outcoached by Byron Scott...

If Posey played against Detroit every night he'd be a lock for the hall. Pretty sad when your entire team, and coaching staff, is so intimidated by one guy that they can't play against him. He's playing the two guard in the 4th and evidently the Pistons have no one who can take advantage of that and chase him to the bench.

Max plays his best game in weeks and all it gets him is dumped to the bench after a mere 18 minutes. I thought AI was having his best game in weeks and all it got him was a trip to the bench when the game was on the line. And AA didn't scratch.

It's boring to keep saying it, but this team can't win as currently configured.

TaShawn, you can crunch numbers like a trash compactor. I'll be honest with you, I've never gotten into +/- or eFG% or some of the "newer" ways to measure players.

I even look at shooting percentages sideways and here's why:

If you go 3 for 8, that's 38% and that's bad. But, if you make one more shot, that's 50% and that's good!

If you go 5 for 10, that's 50% and that's good. But, hey, you still missed five shots like the guy above and he stunk up the joint.

But, then again, neither one of you are as good as the other guy that missed five shots when he went 10 for 15, because he shot 67%.

Oh, and that stud who went 15 for 20 is clearly not getting enough shots, because how does the guy that is shooting 75%, not get more than 20 shots a game?

It's a shame that the team lost by ten points, the equivalent of five two point shots.

Shooting percentages are simple math, but I don't believe it's simple basketball. It actually kind of irks me that one or two shots can define a player's night, especially if the game wasn't watched as closely as the box score.

I was listening to Bill Walton during a game once and he said: it's very easy to shoot 50% when you only take four shots. I'll take the guy that's willing to put the team on his back, no matter what the numbers say.

I won't sit with Bill in his teepee, but I'm with him in this instance.

TaShawn, you can crunch numbers like a trash compactor. I'll be honest with you, I've never gotten into +/- or eFG% or some of the "newer" ways to measure players.

eFG% is new like the 3-point line is new.

I even look at shooting percentages sideways and here's why:

If you go 3 for 8, that's 38% and that's bad. But, if you make one more shot, that's 50% and that's good!

If you go 5 for 10, that's 50% and that's good. But, hey, you still missed five shots like the guy above and he stunk up the joint.

But, then again, neither one of you are as good as the other guy that missed five shots when he went 10 for 15, because he shot 67%.

Oh, and that stud who went 15 for 20 is clearly not getting enough shots, because how does the guy that is shooting 75%, not get more than 20 shots a game?

It's a shame that the team lost by ten points, the equivalent of five two point shots.

You seem to be pointing out that low sample rates can be misleading. That is why I looked up their career #'s. If AI could go back in time and convert 1,500 of his missed shots into makes, then he would barely surpass Szczerbiak's average.

I was listening to Bill Walton during a game once and he said: it's very easy to shoot 50% when you only take four shots.

Another way to phrase that is that it's easy to shoot 50% when you take good shots.

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We have a guy who has shot more shots than just about anybody, maybe the most FGA's of any current player in the league? He has the 3rd highest ppg in NBA history based on the pure volume of shots he takes per game. His efficiency isn't anywhere close to guys like Kobe, who take ridiculously bad shots himself from time to time. And we're not even getting into defense here, we're talking bout the best part of Ai's game.

There is a lot of data here, including the performances of AI's teams. For a sure HOF'er, his teams haven't had much success, even in his prime. Denver was willing to trade him straight up for a guy with half his salary... and they are extremely happy with the results.

I don't dislike AI, but have to point out that he misses a lot of shots, with a lot of them being unwise and forced.

Well besides Herrmann, AI has the worst FG% on the team. Besides Will Bynum, he has the worst 3P FG% on the team.

Since I know that AI is one of the best mid-range jump shooters in basketball, I can only conclude that his shot selection has been bad. Based on observation, I would also say that his shot selection has been horrid. There are a lot of forced fade-away, double arcing prayers being hoisted up by him.

The thought was that he'd finally have other weapons surrounding him here in Detroit and it would make his life a lot easier. That hasn't been the case at all.