I always liked Jehovah's Witnesses, they dress nice and talk polite. I wish more people could do that, it's not hard thing to do and it makes big
difference. Also they believe in heaven on earth which is a nice thing too.

Yes, their fear is real. UN wants to merge all world religions since people behind this know for the world to unite you need, well, united people.

Originally posted by Volkgeister
I recently spoke to a friend about his time as a witness (he is no longer). And he told me something interesting. Apparently Witnesses believe the UN
will ban religion and are preparing accordingly.

i stopped reading this thread around page 5 and came to the conclusion that most of the # told up here is of Anti-jw ppl . I was a jw till i was about
13, my parents got kicked out because they couldt prevent me from smoking. After i while 2 elders came to my house to try and persuade me in the
Truth. I told them that i couldt care less if there was a god. And if He existed that he was quite careless. He asked me why and i told him : How can
a being thats so loving let ppl die, being raped, beaten,etc. He told me ist al in the bible. I stood up went to my room and stayed there to the next
morning. My parents are JW right now my sister 2 also my aunt,uncle and cousins. We have better contact then most cristian familys
Though im an athiest to the bone!! My uncle even loves it when i try to get him to the point of seeing there is no god. He is an Elder, and i dont
care about it! As a matter of fact it gives me the chance to debate with a guy who knows the bible to the letter.

Well since i'm 24 now and been living on my own and i meant i'm an athiest not them. And wats the point is in my existence i dont know but it surely
has nothing to do with any 'Devine Creature' . I truelly believe there is nothing who made us. Where here as a part of the reality , and thats it .
No other purpose then just being here !

I was looking for information on the banning of religion and picked up this thread. I have read it right through from the beginning and feel that the
point has been missed somehow.

A lot of stuff has been spouted about Jehovah's Witnesses and what they can or can't do. Nobody, even God, forces us to do anything. We will do
what we want to do when we want to do it completely out of our own choice. Period.

If someone chooses to become a Jehovah's Witness that is their choice. They choose therefore to follow the tenets of that faith as they would with
any other. If those tenets require that they 'keep themselves seperate from the world', do not engage in immoral activity, do not share in wordly
pursuits or philosophies, etc., etc., etc., then that is their choice.

If anyone who has been a Jehovah's Witness chooses through whatever reason to turn their back on it then that is their prerogative. None of us has
the right to condemn others for their choices in life.

Jehovah's Witnesses choose to live their life the way they do because they believe that they are serving God the way he wishes. A person might
choose to give someone a gift, and that would be very kind. But it would be a far greater kindness if they were to take the time and trouble to ask
the recipient what they need or would like. That way their gift would be far more worthy and appreciated. God requires our love and obedience - if
that makes us the same as every other Jehovah's Witness then that is how it should be. Jesus didn't say that it would be easy.

It is interesting that thousands of people commit badness every day. How often (unless they are a priest) is their religion mentioned??? Yet the fact
that one person who is purported to be a Jehovah's Witness (whether they actually are or not) has committed a crime is plastered all over the media.
Why is that? Because Satan wants to undermine Jehovah's Witnesses. Why? Because he recognises them to be the ones who, even though as imperfect as
everyone else, Jehovah God recognises as his representatives on earth. Jehovah's Witnesses don't claim to be perfect. We all struggle everyday to do
what God requires of us. Sometimes we 'miss the mark'. What we musn't forget is that we are serving God, not men and although men sometimes make
mistakes, deliberate or otherwise, that is not representative of God. Our gift to God is to do what HE wants, not what WE want.

God knows the heart of every individual man, woman or child on this earth. He knows who would be worthy of living in his New System. All Jehovah's
Witnesses are doing, by their preaching work is giving others the opportunity to get to know and love Jehovah. I noticed that some earlier in this
thread were brought up in the 'Truth' but left as teenagers. That is their choice. I have grown-up children who have embraced the Truth - neither
is perfect and they too have made decisions that they have regretted and one has been through a period of disfellowshipping but they both love Jehovah
and know that this is where they want to be. Their choice.

We love our children and want the best for them - some may feel that they are restricted - but we view it as protection - protection from heartbreak,
unwanted pregnancy, VD, Aids, you name it. The world is in such a mess now because people do not give their children the protection and discipline
that is needed to mould them into beautiful people.

I have been a Witness for over 30 years and have never experienced anything but love and kindness. Yes, we are imperfect and some have experienced sad
situations because of it, unfortunately that can happen in any walk of life in this system. But Jehovah is watching and he knows what we have to deal
with. Sometimes we have to look past the human imperfection and leave it to him to sort out. But what we do with our life is our choice - it's up to
us whether we choose to live it according to God's Will or not, and our choice to deal with the consequences of that.

the orginal founder did use the pyramid for divination of the future
they no longer suscribe to that formula
my theological debates with an elder of the JW led us the conclusion that the Watchtower tells the JW that in the end all the worlds armies and
religions will gather to beat the JW
I asked him if none of you vote or go to war then why would everyone gather to fight you>
he did not have an answer but said in the endtimes all the world will gather against the JW
WOW I said thats pretty self absorbed don't you think?
dont you think the world would rather gather against muslim extremist that blow themselves up as a much more dangerous religion that needs armies to
quell it?

He did not get it and still does not.
OH well
face it brainwashing and a cult is all it is

my theological debates with an elder of the JW led us the conclusion that the Watchtower tells the JW that in the end all the worlds armies and
religions will gather to beat the JW
I asked him if none of you vote or go to war then why would everyone gather to fight you>
he did not have an answer but said in the endtimes all the world will gather against the JW
WOW I said thats pretty self absorbed don't you think?
dont you think the world would rather gather against muslim extremist that blow themselves up as a much more dangerous religion that needs armies to
quell it?

I believe that it's the nations of the world rising up against ALL religion. That being said my religious days are decades past.

And I saw three unclean inspired expressions [that looked] like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon and out of the mouth of the wild beast and
out of the mouth of the false prophet. They are, in fact, expressions inspired by demons and perform signs, and they go forth to the kings of the
entire inhabited earth, to gather them together to the war of the great day of God the Almighty.

“Look! I am coming as a thief. Happy is the one that stays awake and keeps his outer garments, that he may not walk naked and people look upon his
shamefulness.”

And they gathered them together to the place that is called in Hebrew Har–Ma·ged′on Rev 16:13 - 16

Revelation also speaks of the nations turning on 'Babylon the Great' - the World Empire of False Religion, she who has been guilty of meddling in
politics when Jesus made it quite clear that true christians should remain neutral and 'keep free from the World'. In that sense she has been
committing 'fornication' with the 'Kings of the Earth'. It also mentions about her bloodguilt concerning the 'Holy Ones' - those whom God
considered holy, having used her religious intolerance to put these God-fearing ones to death who dared to expose her sins along with millions of
other innocent men, women and children. Down through history so much bloodguilt in the name of religion..................

As soon as Babylon the Great is destroyed, God will turn on the Nations, the Wild Beast and False Prophet for their wickedness and corruption -
Armageddon. His righteous war - not a nuclear holocaust!

Finally, the Dragon, none other than 'Old Nick' himself will be abyssed.

Then the 'Holy Ones' and those allied with them - those whom God considers worthy, will be permitted to remain on his cleansed earth along with all
the millions that Jesus will resurrect back to life on Earth.

They laughed at Noah when he said that the world would flood, they laughed at Galileo when he said that the earth was not the centre of the universe.
They laughed at those who encouraged the washing of hands to prevent infection (even thought the Bible had taught this centuries earlier). How many
times has that happened throughout history? Jesus said that true christians would be objects of ridicule in the 'last days'. The irony is that it
is very often the ones who are the subject of that ridicule who end up having the last laugh...........

PS. There's a lot of strange stuff floating around out there about Jehovah's Witnesses - virtually all of which is not based on anything remotely
factual - but hey, tell it like it's fact and you believe it & everyone else will, too! The pyramids are marvels of engineering, no more, no less &
have never been used for anything other than burying dead bodies. I'm sure the ancient Egyptians had some mystic relationship with them, but
Jehovah's Witnesses - no.

Oh and by the way, just for the record, 1975 was based on hearsay and conjecture among a few individuals. The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society never
suggested that 1975 marked anything other than 6,000 years from Adam's Creation & placed no other significance upon it.

Oh and PPS. Pssst.........we celebrate life! Don't need pagan celebrations to enjoy life - Apart from the fact that Jesus never asked us to
celebrate his birth (only his death which we hold the Memorial of on Nisan 14th each year, just to make it correct, the actual passover of the date on
which he died), the whole thing is totally & utterly pagan and oscenely commercialised - what on earth would Jesus think of it all???? And logically,
how would you feel if you invited people to your Birthday party & they gave each other gifts and nothing for you? Incidentally, at the only 2
mentions of Birthdays in the Bible, someone got their head chopped off, one of whom was John the Baptist! It's indulging the individual & putting
them on a pedestal which is against the christian ethic, and besides, who wants to be reminded that they are another year older........?!

I believe that it's the nations of the world rising up against ALL religion. That being said my religious days are decades past.

You are correct. They believe that the governments of the world will make a united effort to stamp out all religion.

They beleive that the Harlot that rides the Wild Beast represents All False Religion. She has committed fornication (spiritually speaking) with the
kings of the earth. They also refer to False religion as a whole as "Babylon the Great"
They believe thatthe governments will for some unknown reason turn on religion and completely destroy her, (false religion, that is).
Then the only religion left would be the One True religion.
(JW's obviously believe that they are it.)

It alone will continue to exist because it alone has Gods blessing.
Then the nations as a whole will make a concerted effort to stamp out that remaining religion and thus incurring the wrath of God, initiatiing
Armageddon.

They are not as dogmatic nowadays as they use to be about who will survive Armageddon and who will not. They believe that all judging by God or
Christ will be based on a persons heart. They readily acknowledge that not all who proffess to be JW's will be saved. and some will be saved who
are not JW's.
They trust in God to do what is just, whatever that may be. They now seem to acknowlege that they have made several errors in the past with regard to
their expected dates.

This is my understanding of what their beliefs are concerning the last days.
My apologies if I am mistaken.

Personally, I like them a lot. I have sveral who work for me and I couldn't ask for any better employees.

fluffbrain thats pure JW propaganda.
your free to post your version of the truth...but its not possible they do not allow birthdays so that they seperate the new member from the
apostilate family they come from?
There is no biblical evidence that a birthday is a bad thing, as a matter of fact three wise men came to celebrate the birth of the Lord Yeshua.

Why is it ok to celebrate a wedding anniversary but not a birthday?
Riddle me that?
and I will put this in words you understand so you know who I am.

I am Heavenly Class, part of the 144,000 the faithful and descreet slave that gives spiritual meat

Originally posted by junglelord
fluffbrain thats pure JW propaganda.
your free to post your version of the truth...but its not possible they do not allow birthdays so that they seperate the new member from the
apostilate family they come from?
There is no biblical evidence that a birthday is a bad thing, as a matter of fact three wise men came to celebrate the birth of the Lord Yeshua.

Why is it ok to celebrate a wedding anniversary but not a birthday?
Riddle me that?

I have several emplyees who are JW's and one of them sent me an email explaining why he dodn't take part in office birthday parties.
Here is his email

just though you might be interested in the reason Jehovahs Witnesses don’t celebrate birthdays.

Although Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the right of others to celebrate birthdays, you are no doubt well aware that they choose not to share in such
celebrations. But perhaps you are unaware of the reasons why they have decided not to participate in these celebrations.

How did early Christians and Jews of Bible times view birthday celebrations?
“The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general.”—The History of the Christian Religion
and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander (translated by Henry John Rose), p. 190.
“The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they
saw of the common observances associated with these days.”—The Imperial Bible-Dictionary (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p.
225.

“The various customs with which people today celebrate their birthdays have a long history. Their origins lie in the realm of magic and religion.
The customs of offering congratulations, presenting gifts and celebrating—complete with lighted candles—in ancient times were meant to protect the
birthday celebrant from the demons and to ensure his security for the coming year. . . . Down to the fourth century Christianity rejected the birthday
celebration as a pagan custom.”—Schwäbische Zeitung (magazine supplement Zeit und Welt), April 3/4, 1981, p. 4.

“The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic
relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human
belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with
the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk
belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever
since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . .
Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday
greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—The Lore of Birthdays (New York, 1952), Ralph and
Adelin Linton, pp. 8, 18-20.

Not surprisingly then, we read in The World Book Encyclopedia: “The early Christians did not celebrate His [Christ’s] birth because they
considered the celebration of anyone’s birth to be a pagan custom.”—Volume 3, page 416.

With the introduction of Christianity the viewpoint toward birthday celebrations did not change. Jesus inaugurated a binding Memorial, not of his
birth, but of his death, saying: “Keep doing this in remembrance of me.” (Lu 22:19) If early Christians did not celebrate or memorialize the
birthday of their Savior, much less would they celebrate their own day of birth. Historian Augustus Neander writes: “The notion of a birthday
festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period.” (The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First
Centuries, translated by H. J. Rose, 1848, p. 190)

“Origen [a writer of the third century C.E.] . . . insists that ‘of all the holy people in the Scriptures, no one is recorded to have kept a feast
or held a great banquet on his birthday. It is only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod) who make great rejoicings over the day on which they were born
into this world below.’”—The Catholic Encyclopedia, 1913, Vol. X, p. 709.

With the foregoing in mind, Jehovah’s Witnesses choose not to share in birthday festivities. To be sure, the birth of a child is a happy, glorious
event. Naturally, all parents rejoice as their children grow and develop with each passing year. Jehovah’s Witnesses also find great joy in
demonstrating their love for their family and friends by giving gifts and having good times together. However, in view of the origin of birthday
celebrations, they prefer to do so at other times throughout the year.

I am not intending to preach to you or change your mind, everyone has the right to choose for themselves what they beieve in, I just thought that you
might be interested because this subject comes up frequently. Dave and several guys in the shop also feel the same way, however, we are not offended
or look down on anyone who chooses to celebrate birthdays or other celebrations."

I think this is a pretty good explanation for their beliefs. They always keep on working when everyone else is sharing inthe office birthday parties.
I respect their beliefs. I especially appreciated the part where he said,

" Although Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the right of others to celebrate birthdays,"

Too bad not everyone is so tolerant. This is a general statement and not directed at anyone in particular.

Sorry for going off topic. There does seem to be a general disgust with religion nowdays, especially organized religion. Most of the people I talk
to about have no desire to discuss religion at all.

Everything is progressive. Including understanding. The difference between Jw's and 'Organised religion' is that whilst OR has stuck doggedly to
its creed and tenets regardless of whether right or wrong, JW's have recognised that the 'light gets brighter' and have adapted their understanding
accordingly. Although to some it appears to be a weakness, it is, in fact, a strength.

For instance, although now widely recognised as a real health risk, around 1972 the WB&TS realised that smoking was a practice that was not
appropriate for a christian. 2 principles are at stake mainly.

1. That our bodies are sacred to Jehovah and we should not deliberately do anything which we know would 'defile the flesh' (2 Cor 7:1). Secondly,
as christians, we have a responsibility to others - to not do anything which would encroach upon others' health - if we love other people we would
not want to harm them, directly or indirectly. It is undeniably a selfish habit and the whole ethic of Christianity is to be unselfish. After a
period of adaptation, to give those who smoked the opportunity to stop, it became a requirement for those who wished to become a Jehovah's Witness to
not smoke. My husband became a Witness in 1974. Although he had tried to stop smoking for years, he stopped for Jehovah and has never smoked since.
Not restrictive, but extremely beneficial for all.

Jehovah's Witnesses many years ago used to vote, but recognising that Jesus's admonition for true christians to be 'no part of the World'
encompassed the political scene, they realised that voting would be supporting Worldly governments when we actually only put faith in God's
Government. So JW's no longer voted.

There is nothing wrong with changing and adapting as long as it is progressive and ultimately in line with Bible prophecy or principles. We have
always been very in tune with what is going on in the World - Watching world events as they fulfil Bible prophecy is fascinating. The Society has
always been on the ball - back in 1993 the Watchtower printed an article on Aids - well before the rest of the World was aware of its existence.

Many of OR beliefs are based on tradition or history. For instance, nowhere in the Bible is celibacy a requirement of an elder (or priest). Both
Jehovah and Jesus positively encouraged marriage. The apostle Paul did suggest that if any felt that they could remain single they would be able to
devote themselves more completely to doing God's Will and would not be distracted by family life, but nowhere does he advocate celibacy, in fact he
said that it would be better to marry rather than be inflamed with passion (and have no outlet for it - which could be dangerous and lead to
unchristian conduct).

The requirement of celibacy may be taken from Revelation 14 where it states that the 144,000 were 'virgins' and did not defile themselves with
'women'. This, like much of the Revelation is symbolic and is likely to mean that they had kept themselves neutral from political and worldly
affairs. The tragedy of this teaching is that had they been able to marry, far far less damage would have been done by those in ecumenical authority
who were unable to contain their sexual impulses.

On the subject of the Wise Men. Think about this. Where did they come from? They were sent by Herod who wanted Jesus so dead that he was prepared
to kill thousands of babies to ensure that. If you read the account in Matthew etc. you will see that he wanted the Magi to return to him so that he
might 'do obeisance' to the child. Yeah, right. Who put the star in the sky? Satan, of course. Do you think that God would have led these men
who could have been instrumental in his son's death to the house (yes, house, sometime after his birth)? To thwart Herod the Magi were told in a
vision not to return to Herod and Jesus was then safely taken to Egypt. Herod in his anger then had all babies under 2 destroyed (arch stroke by Satan
- blame Jesus!!!)

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