lol for the Shaggy joke, i don't actually follow Scooby's advice, just the nutritional a bit. I like training more weighs than Scooby suggests and do the reps faster. However I do think the time he takes to suggest home workouts is extremely respectable (although i go to a gym close to my house). His goals however are home workouts which they are some good advice however i wouldn't follow him to everything he says.

I don't know why you guys are hating on this. It may be different than the way that works for you but that doesn't make it wrong. There are lots of valid methods to achieve the same ends. If you find something that is clearly wrong, like this: "So remember that to gain muscle requires TWO things: ... You have to eat 6 small meals each with a good dose of protein." then say so. (It is possible to build muscle and lose fat on as few as 1 meal/day). I do agree with this: "you don't need to get fat to get strong".

_________________Stu Ward_________________Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~HippocratesStrength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley_________________Thanks TimD

I don't know why you guys are hating on this. It may be different than the way that works for you but that doesn't make it wrong. There are lots of valid methods to achieve the same ends. If you find something that is clearly wrong, like this: "So remember that to gain muscle requires TWO things: ... You have to eat 6 small meals each with a good dose of protein." then say so. (It is possible to build muscle and lose fat on as few as 1 meal/day). I do agree with this: "you don't need to get fat to get strong".

Nothing against you stuward, but this is probably one of my biggest pet peeves.

The physiology of the human body is not so different to require millions of different ways of training and eating. I think his whole setup will cause more harm than good.

Saying things like "Spit it out if it tastes good" is about a half a step away from saying "If you accidentally eat something that tastes good, force yourself to vomit it back up".

Eating disorders are a big problem in the fitness world, just one that very few people mention. (Give it 5 years and the APA will consider carbphobia an eating disorder - as I think they should)

His training is also fairly pointless - if he's aiming at beginners, why show them how to do pec flys among the other isolations he teaches? (Without any pre-hab type work, which is probably what 99.9% of beginners need, since they're typically poor postured).

What I'm saying is this: His training will work with beginners because they're beginners - everything works for beginners. It won't work for anyone else and those that it does work for would find infinitely more progress/health doing other things.

I don't know why you guys are hating on this. It may be different than the way that works for you but that doesn't make it wrong. There are lots of valid methods to achieve the same ends. If you find something that is clearly wrong, like this: "So remember that to gain muscle requires TWO things: ... You have to eat 6 small meals each with a good dose of protein." then say so. (It is possible to build muscle and lose fat on as few as 1 meal/day). I do agree with this: "you don't need to get fat to get strong".

Nothing against you stuward, but this is probably one of my biggest pet peeves.

The physiology of the human body is not so different to require millions of different ways of training and eating. I think his whole setup will cause more harm than good.

Saying things like "Spit it out if it tastes good" is about a half a step away from saying "If you accidentally eat something that tastes good, force yourself to vomit it back up".

Eating disorders are a big problem in the fitness world, just one that very few people mention. (Give it 5 years and the APA will consider carbphobia an eating disorder - as I think they should)

His training is also fairly pointless - if he's aiming at beginners, why show them how to do pec flys among the other isolations he teaches? (Without any pre-hab type work, which is probably what 99.9% of beginners need, since they're typically poor postured).

What I'm saying is this: His training will work with beginners because they're beginners - everything works for beginners. It won't work for anyone else and those that it does work for would find infinitely more progress/health doing other things.

I think we're in violant agreement on most of the points you bring up. He does have a habit of saying "THIS IS THE WAY" as if it's the only way. In fact there is an art to building muscle, and then there are basic principles that work in most cases. He seems to confuse the idea that what worked best for him may be part of the art and not basic principles, for example, the number of meals a day is part of the art.

_________________Stu Ward_________________Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~HippocratesStrength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley_________________Thanks TimD

I actually respect him. I really really do. The guy does these things for free, because he wants to educate people on being fit. Few years ago when I started lifting weights (and he started opening his website) I actually turned to his website for advice.

People think he is hardcore enthusiast in regards to home gym equipment (as in, people see his site and tend to think that Scooby believes home gym is the only way to train), but that is really just him targetting those with little money and the fact that home gym is much more convenient and less expensive in the long run than a real fitness gym.

That being said, as I gain more knowledge and experience I find myself disagreeing with many of what he preaches on his website. I also respectfully disagree with his extreme anti stance on spending $$ for bodybuilding programs. There is nothing wrong with people who want to invest in a decent program if they have the cash to spend it. (of course, those people need to be smart in selecting the programs they would want to buy) Thats why people hire personal trainers, they know there are lots of free info on lifing weights but they hope they can get the core knowledge and proven results.

EDIT: In response to MESS, I am pretty sure that Scooby is against stretching as he claims that from his experience people are more likely to get injured from stretching than lifting weights, and that there is no scientific evidence that stretching reduces chances of injury. But yes, he does warm up (obviously any one should warm up before they lift weights)

Oh and another thing: This guy loves DOMS so much that it misleads his "fans" and trainees to think that if you dont feel DOMS then something isnt working right.

I can't accept the whole area of people who say you don't need to bulk and cut, I've heard it a few times but not enough.

This is just my opinion and what works for me personally. The trick to gaining muscle is simply lift weights with intensity high enough that your muscle has to grow + eat enough food to support said muscle growth. The trick to losing fat is simply not consume more calories and carbs than you need to consume. I believe there is an area in dieting where you should be able to eat enough food that your body grows but not so much that your body gains fat.

But then again I am not competing and I dont want to compete so what do I know....

What I do know is that I've heard and read from people who have gained fat when they bulk (which means they got fat cells...and fat cells never ever go away permanently), yet when they cut back down not only do they lose pounds of fat, they lose few pounds of muscle as well.

This only happens in extreme cases of obesity I believe, NOT in a dude gaining 30-40lbs of fat to go from 180 to 260 in the first 3 years or lifting.

Also, if his back wasn't lagging as much as it is, I would never believe Scooby was a lifetime natty.

I believe it was Lyle that said a 50/50 rate was realistic for a natty past newb gains. And I can't really disagree, based on personal experience.

Outside of a few genetic freaks, you are not going to be filling out a XL shirt staying 10-12% the whole time anytime soon.

From what I know, when you gain lots of fat obviously there are fat cells that go with it. However, fat cells WILL shrink when you lose weight again. However the existence of these fat cells in your body just means it is easier to gain fat again. And these fat cells will never go away permanently once you get them. This is one of the reasons why fat people find it easier to gain back the weight they just lost a couple of weeks ago.

May I ask what you mean by 50/50 rate?

Well I am an Asian and I wear the XL shirt size here lol, with my body fat staying in 7-8% area....shirt sizes in Asia-Oceania may be different than Europe or USA though

From what I know, when you gain lots of fat obviously there are fat cells that go with it. However, fat cells WILL shrink when you lose weight again. However the existence of these fat cells in your body just means it is easier to gain fat again. And these fat cells will never go away permanently once you get them. This is one of the reasons why fat people find it easier to gain back the weight they just lost a couple of weeks ago.

People get fat again because the don't make a true lifestyle change, and have $h1t self discipline in the first place. Having or not having the cells doesn't change how full they are. People's awful portion control and lack of movement does.

Quote:

May I ask what you mean by 50/50 rate?

50% fat gained and 50% muscle.

Quote:

Well I am an Asian and I wear the XL shirt size here lol, with my body fat staying in 7-8% area....shirt sizes in Asia-Oceania may be different than Europe or USA though

While I'm sure you are way under estimating your bodyfat, mainly because 7-8% is insane lean and near impossible for a normal person to maintain for any per longed period of time, I'm also sure the shirt sizes are different lol.

At 6 foot tall, I had to hit a soft 260 (back down to a leaner 240) to blow out all XL's irrelevant of manufacturer.

In order to gain muscle vs fat, nutrient density is important. You need adequate protein, fat and carbs and no serious deficiencies in micronutrients. People eating tons of craps will gain more fat than someone eating quality food.

kriegpaolo_23 doesn't give his age but it's easier for a young person to maintain a single digit BF% than an older person. 7-8% is relatively easy for an 18 year old, but almost impossible for the average 50 year old.

_________________Stu Ward_________________Let thy food be thy medicine, and thy medicine be thy food.~HippocratesStrength is the adaptation that leads to all other adaptations that you really care about - Charles Staley_________________Thanks TimD

In regards to fat cells, thats what I heard from a doctor...that its possible to gain fat cells and those cells will never ever permanently disappear...oh well. I wont act like I know everything about science.

And yep. I am a young person, and I am aware that shirt sizes can be different...lol. Different shirt manufacturers also have different sizing measurements even in Asia-Oceania...I think. In any case my ideal body type is to have a fairly muscular yet lean ripped look as opposed to being a 250 pounder bulky guy. If I actually get that big I would have some problems finding a fitting shirt here actually, lol.

Scooby does advocate compound movements, he has vids for presses and pull ups. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_vw0P8EVwQ A lot of beginners spend time on isos anyway, scooby's not at fault for giving input on how he thinks they should be done. He doesn't promote only isos, so I don't see the problem.

You will note the date, then you will also note the original date from this thread (23rd September 2010) a full NINE months. Scoody has added Deadlifts to his Advanced routines only scince then.

As for the squat videos, all he does is bang on about why you shouldn't do squats. Oh....and if you seriously think you are going to build swole legs from "Skateboard Squats"......go grab a skateboard kid.

tyciol wrote:

Rik-Blades wrote:surely he needs to stretch?He probably does, I don't remember if he's addressed it in videos, I think it's come up now and then. Oh here we go, a hamstring stretching video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpJab7LcbxE

Well, i'm glad you found that. A shiny example of someone stretching something and no real idea why he's doing it. Back pain....maybe he should do less crunches, or build up his glutes, or strengthen his lower back with some squats. Some real deadlifts might even give him some hammies to stretch.

tyciol wrote:

Rik-Blades wrote:Experienced lifters wont listen to thisOh? Why not?

See my above replies.

tyciol wrote:

Rik-Blades wrote:beginners are going to waste time on loads of isolation work.Scooby does advocate compound movements, he has vids for presses and pull ups. For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_vw0P8EVwQ A lot of beginners spend time on isos anyway, scooby's not at fault for giving input on how he thinks they should be done. He doesn't promote only isos, so I don't see the problem.

Yes, we know you don't see the problem, like you dont see the problem in bumping old threads when clearly the other members here would prefer you to start a new one.

Scooby's hardly promoting the benefits of getting a proper strength foundation though...is he! I dont think Starr or Ripptoe have much to worry about.

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