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The ONLY political and religious thread allowed on Chiefscrowd

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Clinton, McCain emerge as comeback winners in New Hampshire primary

WASHINGTON - Democrat Hillary Clinton pulled off an unexpected narrow victory in New Hampshire on Tuesday, dramatically rescuing her bid for the White House in a tense battle with Barack Obama.
Clinton, who's fighting to become the first woman in the Oval Office, mounted a surprisingly strong showing after bracing for a second defeat following her devastating third-place showing in Iowa.

Republican John McCain also nabbed a major comeback victory, putting him solidly back in his party's nomination race.
While Obama, vying to make history as the first black U.S. president, scored big among independents and voters between 18 and 24, Clinton attracted lower-income voters and seniors and did best among voters citing the economy as their top concern.
But a big factor for Clinton was women voters, who had gone over to Obama in large numbers in Iowa. Nearly half in New Hampshire were once again supporting her, while Obama got only a third.

It looks like Christianity is a dead horse in this country.
It will always be impossible to separate politics and religion as long as the Democratic party supports gay rights and abortion.
Lets just cancel Christmas this year. No need to celebrate the birth of Christ when we have Obama to lead us to the promise land. Just think - no Christmas lights to hang, no long lines at the stores, no children opening presents under the Christmas tree.
JMHO.

Abortion is very emotional subject, and I won't get too far into that. But I will say that the federal government should have very little do with those decisions. The states should be be dealing with that, individually.

Gay right/marriage is just a simple case of minding our own business.

That is one thing that really bothers me about religion. They always feel the need to force people to live by their morals.

I think that Christianity is a good thing. But The Bible does make mention of not forcing people into it. In my opinion, that would include not forcing others to live by Christian values.

Originally Posted by IlovetheChiefs

I'm a conservative, but it is interesting how lately we've had bad presdients and keep seesawing between the 2 parties. 8 years of Clinton and all the corruption, and the country wants "change" to the other party. Then 8 years of Bush and the country wants "change" to the other party. After 8 years of Obama's Jimmy Carter like incompetence, the country will be ready to "change" back to the Republicans. The 2 party system has now in effect amounted to continual "changing" back and forth with the result that nothing gets better and the mess gets worse.

Ronald Reagan - the last great president. Maybe forever.

I hate both parties. One side will not be happy until there are enough prisons to house the majority of the country. While the other won't be happy until nobody is allowed to make a decision on their own

Which is which? They are both the same.

And Reagan did little more than take out a huge loan, that made for a good-looking economy, that lasted all of eight years.

And it would have lasted al little longer, if not for the billions he spent on his war against peoples' right to decide for themselves about narcotics.

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

No, they're NOT a Superpower; they're self-contained, self supporting Country and Society that knows how to live and let live, as well as how to mind their own f*cking business!

In short; ideal.

Sounds like what this nation was intended to be about. Minding your own business.

Originally Posted by Hayvern

Ahh so I finally figured it out. You are an isolationist. OK, so am I, I think we should stay out of the world's affairs more, I think we need to be self supportive and self sufficient.

However, if we had remained that way in World War 2, it is very likely that we would be talking about the United Empire of Germany instead of Holland.

The Germans, as any other military force that tries to govern over so many other nations, would have been over-turned without us.

Whenever you try to rule over other nations like that, you are fighting an endless war. The opposition never gives up.

Europe will never be united, as long as human beings are still at the top of the food chain.

I'm not forcing you to be a Christian.
I'm not forcing you to celebrate Christmas with your children.
This is a free country. Make your own religious choices.

But, when you dictate rather other people, who have nothing to do with you, can be married to each other, based on your religious beliefs, by electing politicians who will make laws to that effect, then you are forcing your morals on others.

The fact that you are not making me celabrate Christmas, doesn't mean that you aren't trying to force your religious agendas on anyone?

Just becuase Barry Bonds didn't take "Steroid #45" doesn't change that he took steroids.

Christian values and morals should be a choice of the individual, not any politician.

I appreciate most Christian values. I think that the things that Christ stood for are of the absolute most admirable.

But I don't think that anyone should be forced, by law, to live within the guidelines of Christian values.

I hate this thread but I will say one thing about Christianity. It is about morals, what everyone knows is right and wrong. Morals doesn't have to do with the fact that you might stay home so you don't miss the chiefs game on tv instead of go to church. Only you can decide that. Its not my place to judge you if you do or don't go to church.
Abortion IS a touchy subject but it is also a subject of morals. To me I can't understand how people can support abortion. That dear sweet baby, that is just a inconvenience to the mother, never asked to be conceived and to have his/her life torn away just like that. For someone to even think of abortion brings tears to my eyes. I don't judge anyone who has had an abortion for its between them and the Lord but if I can get someone to think of other options other than abortion, I will try.
I feel that there should be a gov't checks and balances for things that are morally wrong.
I've said my piece even though I know that you all think differently than I do.

I hate this thread but I will say one thing about Christianity. It is about morals, what everyone knows is right and wrong. Morals doesn't have to do with the fact that you might stay home so you don't miss the chiefs game on tv instead of go to church. Only you can decide that. Its not my place to judge you if you do or don't go to church.
Abortion IS a touchy subject but it is also a subject of morals. To me I can't understand how people can support abortion. That dear sweet baby, that is just a inconvenience to the mother, never asked to be conceived and to have his/her life torn away just like that. For someone to even think of abortion brings tears to my eyes. I don't judge anyone who has had an abortion for its between them and the Lord but if I can get someone to think of other options other than abortion, I will try.
I feel that there should be a gov't checks and balances for things that are morally wrong.
I've said my piece even though I know that you all think differently than I do.

Plenty will agree your views on the subject. And I don't disagree with your feelings on the subject, myself.

All that I really disagree with is allowing the government to put their nose in the matter.

The government has no business inside of anyones body.

I believe that, for all of the good that Abraham Lincoln did, he really destroyed what was the greatest government that was ever created.

Obviously, he had the best of intentions. By trying to enforce that the federal government recognized black people as human beings, and Americans.

But, in doing so, he took the states' power to be, primarily independent of the federal government. Thus, crushing the very foundation of what had been created by Thomas Jefferson and the other 'Founding Fathers'.

That being said, there is a fine line, where a fetus is capable of withstanding removal from the mother that it is entirely dependent upon.

At the absolute most, the federal government could consider that stage of life the beginning of their citizenship and their rights, in my opinion. (Quite a stretch)And individual states could take that further.

But if, as a society, we are not willing to properly raise unwanted children, then what gives us he right to tell anyone that they must care for a child?

By doing so, we are setting ourselves up for an even uglier situation, with mental, physical and mental abuse, neglect, and often the unthinkable.

So, it is my opinion, that if we choose to force the "right to life" issue, then we need to be prepared to care for the children that are unwanted, as there is no way to force people to do the right thing, when forced to support another.

And currently, there is nowhere near enough care being offered for existing unwanted, and mistreated children.

So, until we are willing to step up and take care of all of these unwanted and mis-treated children, then I don't feel like we have any right to force life unto more of them.

And government agencies do a horrible job of caring for children. So it really needs to be the citizens, themselves who offer genuine care for them.

Plenty will agree your views on the subject. And I don't disagree with your feelings on the subject, myself.

All that I really disagree with is allowing the government to put their nose in the matter.

But, in doing so, he took the states' power to be, primarily independent of the federal government. Thus, crushing the very foundation of what had been created by Thomas Jefferson and the other 'Founding Fathers'.

The Founding Fathers were pious men and started this country with good Christian values in mind.

At the Constitutional Convention of 1787, James Madison proposed the plan to divide the central government into three branches. He discovered this model of government from the Perfect Governor, as he read Isaiah 33:22;
“For the LORD is our judge[Judicial branch], the LORD is our lawgiver[Legislative branch],
the LORD is our king[Executive branch];
He will save us.”

Benjamin Franklin:
“ God governs in the affairs of man. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without his notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured in the Sacred Writings that except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it. I firmly believe this. I also believe that, without His concurring aid, we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel” –Constitutional Convention of 1787 | original manuscript of this speech

John Jay:
“ Providence has given to our people the choice of their rulers, and it is the duty, as well as the privilege and interest of our Christian nation to select and prefer Christians for their rulers.” Source: October 12, 1816. The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, Henry P. Johnston, ed., (New York: Burt Franklin, 1970), Vol. IV, p. 393.
“Whether our religion permits Christians to vote for infidel rulers is a question which merits more consideration than it seems yet to have generally received either from the clergy or the laity. It appears to me that what the prophet said to Jehoshaphat about his attachment to Ahab ["Shouldest thou help the ungodly and love them that hate the Lord?" 2 Chronicles 19:2] affords a salutary lesson.” [The Correspondence and Public Papers of John Jay, 1794-1826, Henry P. Johnston, editor (New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1893), Vol. IV, p.365]

But if, as a society, we are not willing to properly raise unwanted children, then what gives us he right to tell anyone that they must care for a child?

So, it is my opinion, that if we choose to force the "right to life" issue, then we need to be prepared to care for the children that are unwanted, as there is no way to force people to do the right thing, when forced to support another.

And currently, there is nowhere near enough care being offered for existing unwanted, and mistreated children.

So, until we are willing to step up and take care of all of these unwanted and mis-treated children, then I don't feel like we have any right to force life unto more of them.

And government agencies do a horrible job of caring for children. So it really needs to be the citizens, themselves who offer genuine care for them.

P.S. In the meantime, stem cell research really needs to be funded.

When the child is not wanted, there is another option. There are alot of people in this country that want so desperately to have a child and want to adopt the "unwanted" babies.

Last edited by hardcorechiefsfan; 11-10-2008 at 08:24 PM.
Reason: spelling

The only thing I have to say about abortion is:
What about the baby? You surely don't think the baby doesn't experience pain or have feelings when he/she is aborted? I hate to even think of it. And I don't ask this due to my conservative or religious beliefs...
I am certainly glad that we weren't aborted!
I also believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But hey, if somebody wants to marry a donkey, go for it! I just don't want my taxes to pay for the donkeys' benefits.
This is why it is so difficult to separate politics and religious beliefs, as one begets the other many times.
Don't get me wrong; I'm glad we live in a diverse country with people from all backgrounds and beliefs. I am simply stating what I believe...

The only thing I have to say about abortion is:
What about the baby? You surely don't think the baby doesn't experience pain or have feelings when he/she is aborted? I hate to even think of it. And I don't ask this due to my conservative or religious beliefs...
I am certainly glad that we weren't aborted!
I also believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But hey, if somebody wants to marry a donkey, go for it! I just don't want my taxes to pay for the donkeys' benefits.
This is why it is so difficult to separate politics and religious beliefs, as one begets the other many times.
Don't get me wrong; I'm glad we live in a diverse country with people from all backgrounds and beliefs. I am simply stating what I believe...

I hate this thread but I will say one thing about Christianity. It is about morals, what everyone knows is right and wrong. Morals doesn't have to do with the fact that you might stay home so you don't miss the chiefs game on tv instead of go to church. Only you can decide that. Its not my place to judge you if you do or don't go to church.
Abortion IS a touchy subject but it is also a subject of morals. To me I can't understand how people can support abortion. That dear sweet baby, that is just a inconvenience to the mother, never asked to be conceived and to have his/her life torn away just like that. For someone to even think of abortion brings tears to my eyes. I don't judge anyone who has had an abortion for its between them and the Lord but if I can get someone to think of other options other than abortion, I will try.
I feel that there should be a gov't checks and balances for things that are morally wrong.
I've said my piece even though I know that you all think differently than I do.