This is probably wrong. Once you have full-blown diabetes you're pretty screwed. I guess some type II diabetics can turn the ship around, but they'll be hard-pressed to to it without curbing the carbs.

How do we know? Are there any studies that actually suggest this? We're just assuming that. Most Type II diabetics have a perfectly normal insulin response. The proof: they can eat dairy and meat just fine, and both have a substantial insulin release. There is more evidence out there showing that diabetes is thyroid and hormone related. New information is pointing to an imbalance of sodium and potassium. What would do that? A diet high in processed foods and low in whole foods - that would be a HUGE amount of sodium with no potassium to balance it out as potassium is found in natural meats, fruits and vegetables. What Danny is advocating - a diet rich in red meat, coconut products and fruit sugars - would provide a very solid sodium/potassium balance, low levels of cortisol from sucrose and low levels of estrogen/high levels of testosterone from the red meat and coconut oil (high saturated/low polyunsaturated fat diet), and therefore a healthy thyroid.

If diabetes is actually caused by thyroid issues (sodium/potassium imbalance) and an estrogen/testosterone imbalance (low saturated fat/high unsaturated fat diet) and not "sugar", then Danny's method would be very effective. The "sugar" theory for diabetes is just as old and tired as the "saturated fat/cholesterol" theory. Are we falling into the same traps as the CW crowd we rail against for "not getting it"? Can we AT LEAST distinguish that there is a difference between the sugar found in organic milk and fresh fruits versus high fructose corn syrup, wheat flour and agave syrup?

What we DO know for a fact is that due to the high toxin load in the SAD, typically the only thing keeping people's thyroids from failing is the high levels of sugar and sodium in the diet.

I'm not claiming to be an expert - I clearly am not - but a lot of you are reaming out Danny and you've clearly never even spent 5 minutes reading what he has to say. People are clearly skimming the titles of posts and stopping at the headline and drawing a conclusion versus what they think they know from Primal. That kind of thinking is dangerous and it's why we have liquid egg whites and fat free cream cheese on the shelves.

Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-05-2012 at 07:45 PM.

Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

It is incredibly, painfully, horribly obvious that people do not understand the underlying cause of diabetes. I don't think anyone does, but I'd be willing to bet anything IT IS NOT A REACTION TO SUGAR. Yes, diabetes is caused by stress on the body. What is stress? Simply put, it is hormonal disregulation. Working a job as a surgeon isn't the only definition of "stress". A person could be a millionaire and have a part-time job as a greeter at Walmart, have zero mental stress in their life and be absolutely riddled with stress physically.

Fruit is not going to give you diabetes. Potatoes won't give you diabetes. Wheat, soy, vegetable oils and HFCS WILL give you diabetes. It's not because of the sugar content, but because of the toxin level. It is POISONS that will give you diabetes. It is absolutely ridiculous to put agave syrup on the same level as honey, and it is absolutely ridiculous to say because a person advocates eating "sugar" in the form of fresh-squeezed orange juice and organic milk that they are also promoting the eating of cookies. That is an embarrassing statement to make because it shows you are writing out of emotion with no regard to logical thought. Those kinds of statements are libelous. Ray Peat is vehemently against eating grains. He's actually for eating ice cream, which can actually be made quite healthily. Good quality sugar, organic grassfed milk and fresh fruit is a healthy treat for many of us, and it IS something that physically reduces the body's stress.

Dropping carbs low isn't helping combat against diabetes because you're removing sugar from your diet. You're removing the processed shit from your diet. Low carb diets are not healthier than high carb diets. Low carb diets are just more likely to advocate eating REAL FOOD like meat, eggs, cheese and vegetables. Low fat diets in America have us eating processed foods with fat removed and sugar mixed in. People eating low fat aren't eating chicken and sweet potatoes, they are eating fat free cream cheese, wheat flour and avoiding animal fat. If a diabetic person adopted a higher carbohydrate approach but got their carbs from fruits and vegetables with no flour or processed foods, they'd likely heal. Will they heal as well as on a ketogenic diet? That probably depends on the person, but there is too much dogma flying around here to even entertain that possibility isn't there? Is everyone aware here that there are studies where rats have been fed sugar to counteract diabetes? Can we entertain the fact that if we're going to quote studies that back up our biases we must also acknowledge those studies that don't support our biases? And can we entertain the fact that maybe, just maybe the studies we read could be flawed? Or, maybe even better, let's entertain the FACT that EVERY study is flawed!

PUFA oils are CLEARLY the biggest cause of heart disease, diabetes and cancer in this country. Every chronic disease mirrors the uptick in their usage. Guess what? There's zero sugar in soybean oil.

It's not that people don't understand the cause of diabetes--you aren't comprehending what you are reading. Of course sugar doesn't cause diabetes in and of itself. Many, many factors involved. The point is, contrary to your point along with Peat's and Danny's, is that you can't eat your way out of it by jugging on the OJ or other fruits. You are questioning folk's intelligence here and you are either horribly mis-informed or just ignorant. There may have been some rats that had success on sugar, but like with many rat to human conversions, it does not compute. Find that study on humans. You may find some quack with a blog selling that poison but that's about it. You flat out don't know what you are talking about in your thinking on diabetes control and are presenting an irresponsible view.

It's not that people don't understand the cause of diabetes--you aren't comprehending what you are reading. Of course sugar doesn't cause diabetes in and of itself. Many, many factors involved. The point is, contrary to your point along with Peat's and Danny's, is that you can't eat your way out of it by jugging on the OJ or other fruits. You are questioning folk's intelligence here and you are either horribly mis-informed or just ignorant. There may have been some rats that had success on sugar, but like with many rat to human conversions, it does not compute. Find that study on humans. You may find some quack with a blog selling that poison but that's about it. You flat out don't know what you are talking about in your thinking on diabetes control and are presenting an irresponsible view.

It's not that people don't understand the cause of diabetes--you aren't comprehending what you are reading. Of course sugar doesn't cause diabetes in and of itself. Many, many factors involved. The point is, contrary to your point along with Peat's and Danny's, is that you can't eat your way out of it by jugging on the OJ or other fruits. You are questioning folk's intelligence here and you are either horribly mis-informed or just ignorant. There may have been some rats that had success on sugar, but like with many rat to human conversions, it does not compute. Find that study on humans. You may find some quack with a blog selling that poison but that's about it. You flat out don't know what you are talking about in your thinking on diabetes control and are presenting an irresponsible view.

You clearly did not read my post at all.

Re-read it. My entire point is that there is no definitive conclusion as to why people become diabetic. Are you saying you have all the answers and you have definitively found the cause? I'd like to see your research that makes you an authority. Do you realize the diabetes/sugar theory suffers from the same flaws as the saturated fat-cholesterol/heart disease theory? Or were you sure in 1979 that red meat and butter were the causes of all of America's health woes as well?

From what I've seen, I'm the only one (outside of Danny Roddy) that HAS read both sides of the argument, yet the only person not jumping to biased conclusions is me. And I'm misinformed? Maybe you all should actually read something that doesn't fit your preconceived notion and develop an actual counterargument instead of standing on a soapbox preaching religion. I don't know what causes diabetes, and neither do you.But I'm confident that my lifestyle of eating real, whole foods and getting sunshine and regular exercise will prevent it.

Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 07-05-2012 at 07:56 PM.

Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

May not know the exact mechanisms in each case, but we sure as hell know what exacerbates diabetes and what leads to diabetic neuropathy (think unregulated blood glucose).

We also know that low carb primal with sufficient exercise works in (wish I had exact percentages), but I'm gonna go with "most" cases to stop or reverse metabolic and physical damage. I know I've personally witnessed several occasions of this in person.

So if your recommending anything else then I'm just gonna remain skeptical is all.

May not know the exact mechanisms in each case, but we sure as hell know what exacerbates diabetes and what leads to diabetic neuropathy (think unregulated blood glucose).

We also know that low carb primal with sufficient exercise works in (wish I had exact percentages), but I'm gonna go with "most" cases to stop or reverse metabolic and physical damage.

I agree with your latter statement. We do know that low carb Primal works. However, we don't know why. IS it because we're minimizing a blood glucose response? I don't think that's the reason.

I think the reason is the elimination of toxins from the diet. When you take away grains, legumes, polyunsaturated fats, processed sugars, artificial sweeteners, thickeners, gums, colorings and all the nasty shit in modern food and JUST EAT REAL, WHOLE FOODS, changes happen to your body. Inflammation disappears, hormones regulate, stress levels drop and body fat starts to decrease. I think THIS is why it works, not just because you're not eating carbs. I am willing to bet a higher carb/lower fat Primal approach where you're eating poultry, potatoes and fruits will work A LOT BETTER than a diet consisting of Atkins bars, processed cheese, lunch meat, "low carb" wraps made out of cellulose and Splenda. The latter diet is going to have a MUCH lower carb count and have a far lesser effect on blood glucose, but I'd bet anything the high carb primal approach will work far better at healing diabetes.

Wouldn't you agree?

Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

"What Danny is advocating - a diet rich in red meat, coconut products and fruit sugars - would provide a very solid sodium/potassium balance, low levels of cortisol from sucrose and low levels of estrogen/high levels of testosterone from the red meat and coconut oil (high saturated/low polyunsaturated fat diet), and therefore a healthy thyroid"

Thought that the prescription actually also included a lot of salt consumption from what I have read on this (good for the thyroid and all)?

You are correct. I neglected to mention salt. Because of Danny I've added Himalayan sea salt liberally to all my foods. I was getting the chills after every meal I ate, so I suspected I was getting hypothyroid from a diet of simply meat, vegetables and starch. Ever since I started salting my food liberally, started eating more fruit and started taking small doses of kelp, the issue has gone away. I now take ice cold showers - no hot water. I don't get cold feet any hands anymore, either.

I still can't bring myself to drink orange juice and eat white sugar. Orange juice is pretty scary stuff in this country and white sugar is empty calories. I don't think it's healthy. But the little things - more carrots, more salt, more fruit, kelp - I see that as harmless no matter what your biases are and it truly has helped me.

Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

"What we DO know for a fact is that due to the high toxin load in the SAD, typically the only thing keeping people's thyroids from failing is the high levels of sugar and sodium in the diet."

How do you know that? What study shows that adding sugar and sodium to a SAD diet improves thyroid function? And is it a linear progression? Can we eat more and more SAD as long as we get more and more sugar and sodium to save the thyroid?

How do you know that? What study shows that adding sugar and sodium to a SAD diet improves thyroid function? And is it a linear progression? Can we eat more and more SAD as long as we get more and more sugar and sodium to save the thyroid?

We know it because sugar and sodium increase your thyroid, and 9 out of 10 people with thyroid issues are hypothyroid, not hyperthyroid.

I read about it awhile ago and wrote a quick thread. Again, I'm no expert but this is how I understand it: