Mr. Money Mustache’s Own Story

Ahh, I see that sissy the “Realist” has been posting on my blog. I hope that doesn’t happen too often. Sukka’s too soft. You’ll never get anywhere with piddly numbers like $5/month or $5/day.

And I had to laugh at that example.. would anyone really start buying lunch at a restaurant when they were already so tight on cash that they were saving NOTHING? And would they continue buying it once they saw that their credit card balance was starting to grow? What kind of idiot would do that? Why does this guy call himself the “Realist” with such an unrealistically stupid example?

What I want you to do is start thinking of REAL savings. Not putting away $5 or $150 per month, but more like FIVE THOUSAND per month. Not everyone can do that. But a middle-class American family with two teachers making $60k each per year, who are currently saving zero and struggling to get by? THEY SHOULD BE SOCKING AWAY $5000 PER MONTH. Word.

Here’s my story, so you can see how it’s done.

As a boy, I learned frugality by growing up in a family where my parents didn’t buy much stuff. Instead of having stuff given to me, I had to get a paper route, trudging 6 days every week in the bleak Ontario, Canada weather for thirty bucks. After this experience, earning $4.15/hour in a gas station with a partially heated booth was incredibly cushy and generous. Imagine then, how amazing it was the next year to earn $6.50/hour to work in a convenience store with not only windows and doors to protect you from the weather, but heat and air conditioning that allowed you to wear indoor clothing year-round? I was making $650/month, going to high school, and by the end of a year, I had $5,000 in the bank.

My point is that in the United States and other rich countries, you’ve got it good. Even if you work in Wal-Mart, you make more money than I did, you get to walk around in a huge fancy store, and you can save almost everything you earn if you don’t get ridiculous and waste it all. When I made $6.50 an hour, I knew it wasn’t enough to afford a car or my own apartment at age 16. Well, it was enough, but only if I wanted to spend everything I earned. So I stayed at my parents’ house. When I started making more, I was ready to up the lifestyle a bit.. but not a huge amount.

From here the MMM story goes on. I went to university, but picked the local one so I could live rent-free with family. I worked in the summers and found affordable ways to party so I graduated with no debt. A decent professional job awaited at graduation, so I upped the ante to include my first used car and a house shared with many roommates (rent: $270/month). After a few raises and new jobs, I moved to the USA, doubled the salary, but kept the used car and the living-with-roommates situation. Finally, a 20% downpayment had been saved for a house, so I made the jump to buy my first fixer-upper, sharing it and working on it with my future wife.

At this point, we had it made – double incomes, low mortgage. We let the good times roll a little bit, enjoying the same luxuries as our peers, doing plenty of international travel. But the difference was, we were spending only about 25% of disposable income, while they were spending 90%, because of additional expenses like auto loans, higher mortgages, and hidden stuff like clothes and restaurants. This meant saving a good $4,000/month, which rapidly compounds and results in a net savings of $7,000/month after a few years. Pretty soon we were on a treadmill that was pushing us forwards instead of fighting one that pulled us back.

At this point, we could have bought a huge house or a small fleet of nice cars. But instead, we spent the money on the ultimate luxury – quitting our jobs. For other people, a sailboat or a starting a local charitable trust might be the luxury of choice. You get to choose your own reward. But it’s all about not getting stupid when you can’t yet afford it.

For example, when you’re making $30,000/year, you can’t be out buying $7 martinis on the weekends and financing a $20,000 new car. At this level, you are still in the cooking-at-home and riding your bike club. Maybe a $3,000 used car if you can buy it in cash and if it’s really necessary to get to work.

When can you truly afford a fancy car like a BMW? Well, once you have the cash for it in the bank, your house and all other debts are fully paid off, and you are either retired or very comfortable with delaying your eventual retirement for a year or more to pay for this depreciating piece of luxury property, THEN you can roll into the dealership.

The funny part is, if you follow the ways of the Money Mustache, you’ll hit these levels sooner than you think. So you can borrow to buy the BMW today, and pay for it forever. Or you can pick it up with the spare change in your wallet in the surprisingly-near future, and be a happier person for the wait.

Yeah, that would be impossible, saving 100%, since even if you ate nothing there are still taxes to be paid! In my post, I meant EACH hypothetical person was making a 60k salary. I was suggesting that a couple could get to the point of living off of less than one of their salaries, including joint income taxes, so the second salary of 5k per month ends up being saved completely. As for percentage of income to save, that can go up as income goes up. A person earning 15k will find it tough to save anything. But if that same person advances to 100k, he can theoretically save 85 minus income taxes. For the middle-class 1-2 kid family who wants to keep the best parts of the full rich-world lifestyle (as I do), I am trying to make a case for living off of about 40-50k and saving the rest.

Not possible. I earned about $120,000 last year so I fit your theoretical example. I paid 48,000 in income + SSI/medicare + other taxes (phone, electric, natural gas, property, school, etc).

You suggest they can save $60,000 a year, but that only leaves $12,000 to live on which is not enough unless you live in a two-room house, with no air conditioning, and turn off the heat in the winter. (Brrr.) Who wants to live like that?

It also makes no allowances for the cost of rent if you’re in an apartment, or monthly mortgage payment if your $120,000 couple is in a house.

Dude, what is the point of questioning my numbers!? There is not enough detail in this article to possibly nitpick as you are. Among your glaring oversights:
– Two income earners pay less tax than a single earner with the same salary.
– 401K contributions are done pre-tax, and when two earners both max out, that cuts taxes significantly
– I may have lower property and state income taxes than you
– by this point in my argument, we’ve probably increased the budget to $12,000 or more per person. That is MORE than enough to live well on (My family currently lives like royalty on under $9k/person/year, although with no mortgage)

– Side note: I live near Boulder, CO where A/C is not needed and winter heat bills on my 2600SF house are somewhere in the $400-$500 range per year.

I agree with MMM. This is all very possible. My W-2 income so far this year, before taxes, is about $16K. But because of saving and income from investments of those savings, I have year to date, after tax, total income of $26K. It’s the snowball effect. And I still go out with my fiancee to dinner once a week, just went on a cheap-ish vacation. It’s doable, but not if you have the wrong mindset.

“For the middle-class 1-2 kid family who wants to keep the best parts of the full rich-world lifestyle (as I do), I am trying to make a case for living off of about 40-50k and saving the rest.”

Any advice for saving tons of money for a middle-class 1 kid family making 40-50k per year between the two of them—and living in Boulder, CO?

The only options I can see is a) move, b) make a lot more money, c) all of the above. A isn’t gonna happen because schools are awesome here, but b) might given time (we are in early 30’s) if economy doesn’t totally collapse soon.

I like your question, since I too have lived in Boulder and live just 10 miles away right now. If you had said Manhattan, I would say “Move out quickly unless you are making at least $300,000 a year or willing to go black-belt-frugal on accomodations. But in Boulder I’d say, “don’t use your location as an excuse not to become rich!”.

Here in Colorado we still enjoy breathtakingly low costs – low property taxes and insurance, low state income taxes and sales taxes. An excellent climate that allows year-round biking and requires very little in home heating and cooling costs as long as you take advantage of the sun in winter and cool nights in summer. There aren’t that many places to live that are much cheaper.

Since you’re currently not in the “obscenely high income” bracket that many Boulderites are (most of who still are in debt, by the way), I can only offer the same tips I use for Cheap Colorado life:
– keep only one used, debt-free car and have at least one of you bike to work
– rent, rather than buy, a house. In Boulder, rents are irrationally cheap compared to purchase prices. Or try the neighborhood of Louisville that is right at the top of S.Boulder road (i.e., the closest possible commute to Boulder). I bought a house there and could be in downtown Boulder by BIKE in less than 30 minutes, year-round. And your kids can walk to Coal Creek Elementary, reportedly one of the best in the whole state.
– do more mountain biking and less skiing – it’s free, more fun, and better exercise.
– supplement your groceries with Costco for delicious bulk items like coffee and olive oil
and
– make a trip out to Old Town Longmont to have a beer on my patio with me to discuss further :-)

Great little town, much cheaper than Boulder (but a bit pricier than Longmont). I’m here (vs Longmont) to cut my commute to work to a 26 min bike ride, so it was worth the extra money in money saved commuting (ie, see MMM’s “The Real Cost of Commuting”).

Granted, skiing is the one thing I spend lavishly on, but I have to call BS on that suggestion.

1) Nordic skiing is the best endurance workout known to man and dramatically cheaper than alpine skiing or mountain biking, especially if you stick to skate or waxless classic styles. Kuzmin scrape to avoid the whole waxing money pit. Use backcountry skis if paying $25 dollars for a season pass at a nordic center is too pricey for you and just explore the local woods.

2) Alpine can be a lot less crazy expensive (but still pretty pricey) with some care. Buy new or lightly used race skis and boots from a season or two ago off of ebay or occasionally even an online ski shop. If you know the exact models to look for, 90% off state of the art equipment is the norm. You can ski on discount days with online preorders or buy a season pass and do nothing but ski for 4 months to minimize the lift ticket hit. Don’t buy food there, don’t rent equipment, don’t buy lessons, don’t go over Christmas or other super busy times. Bring your own food, read Ultimate Skiing by Ron LeMaster and watch WC skiing on YouTube to learn, and use vacation days to go skiing on weekdays. Do your own boot fitting and ski tuning to avoid ever setting foot into a brick and mortar ski shop. Skip the silly widgets the industry is always coming up with. If you’re not racing, it doesn’t take much to make things work. You don’t have to choose between FIRE and skiing.

…and another thing to add–we have $70k+ in debt between the two of us too (student loans, medical debt, etc. but no car or house loans thus no “good” debt). I think our situation must be fairly typical, no?

Thanks for the recommendations. We are already doing all of those things. I guess we aren’t too bad off after all (we also have flexible jobs we enjoy), but I’d just like to save even more and really be smart about it.

Hmm, just saw your follow-up comment about the debt. You are really stretching the ‘stash there, with a combination of higher rent, kids, AND debt left over from the past. I would normally advise people to travel back in time and be sure to get their debts completely paid off BEFORE starting a family, since it’s much harder to do so afterwards. But it can be done and it sounds like you are doing it wisely already.

To speed things up, it might just require the family to go into a more hardcore mode until it is paid. Once you halt that interest-on-$70,000 treadmill things will obviously be much easier. Part-time work on weekends? Staycations instead of vacations? Perhaps you have “emergency” cash in short-term savings accounts that could be transferred to pay off some of the debt? Even the traditional financial gurus advise getting the immediate debt out of the way before you move on to do retirement savings and such.

One of the biggest things I see with indebted friends is that they don’t view the debts as enough of an emergency. People have high-interest student loans yet still finance a new car. If I had an unpaid debt other than a mortgage I’d be nervously pulling my hair out and photocopying pages out of the “how to live entirely on potatoes and oats” cookbook untill I was able to get back from the precipice. I would find a way to live on even fewer than the one pair of jeans I currently own. But I admit I am Mr. Money Mustache and can get a little extreme at times :-)

Yea–so far the prospects for paying off that 70k in less than 15 years looks pretty bleak though, no matter how “hardcore” we go (unless we live in a shack with 10 others or something, which the lady is unwilling to do).

I’m still not convinced.. The numbers in my mind add up much more optimistically than your grim prognosis. If you like, send me a private message through Facebook and we could compare notes. I live on well under 40k and still have enough to pay off a hypothetical debt of 70k.. but I’d like to understand where my own situation does not apply to others because it could help with future posts on the blog. Thanks again for you comments.. And by the way your own writing on the beyond growth blog is amazing!

I really like your down to earth attitude that is conveyed through your writing.I found your site through a recommendation related to Early Retirement Extreme. I am a Canadian university student who will be graduating debt free in December this year. Any major tips for university students entering the workplace?

You’re already on a great track, reading Early Retirement Extreme and Mr. Money Mustache so early.. In 1996 I was right where you are now. I made a few mistakes along the way since I only stumbled into the idea of preparing for being job-independent about 6 years after graduation. There are so many things to share, depending on your goals, but if I had to boil it down to one thing that fits in this comment reply: watch your spending on cars and transportation, especially in Canada where costs are almost 2x what they are in the US, and NEVER borrow money to buy a car!

That step alone pretty much guarantees a somewhat wealthy future, but there is obviously much more to write about as time goes on. I am excited about the idea that there might be university/college students reading here. In fact, I was just yesterday talking to a friend who is a young university professor here at Colorado University in Boulder and we were wondering if there is a way to get more newgrads interested in becoming wealthy early in their lives. From the debt and spending habits most students already have, they are on the opposite path – being stuck in debt for most of their lives.

Almost everyone can become rich fairly quickly by modifying their spending, but people in their 20s have a chance to enjoy their entire lifetime, including any child-raising years, being financially free. From my experience, this is Effing Amazing.

This blog is great. I’m currently traveling for what will be 1.5 years prior to relocating to New Zealand. I wish I had a guide like this when I graduated from university. It never occurred to me that I could retire in my 30’s! Once I’m settled in New Zealand I will be putting your suggestions into practice and hope to retire prior to turning 40.

I was cycle touring the last year and realized that I still had too much to see to go back to work. After going back to my job for 4 months I just quit my job and started traveling again. Had I been smarter with where I saved my money I could have easily expanded my traveling to 4 or 5 years.

Going back home people started asking me for advice on how to save and I didn’t have answers that most people wanted to hear. Your blog states a lot of the same information but in an easier to digest way! I’ve already forwarded it on to multiple people who have recently graduated university!

I am also hoping for an Extreme Early Retirement. Assuming I did my calculations right, $40k today is about $60k 20-years from now (assuming an extremely conservative 2.0% inflation). If you look at 30-years it jumps to $72k. What that says to me is that the earlier you retire the bigger your bank roll needs to be.

Is there another way I should be looking at this? How does one account for the wealth destroying affects of inflation especially over the long time horizon that is associated with Extreme Early Retirement?

Hmm.. it seems that confusion and worry about inflation is widespread. I think it would be fun to do an article specifically on inflation and how to ensure it doesn’t catch up with you – thanks for the inspiration!

It is quite easy – you make sure you leave enough of your annual returns still in savings, to keep up with inflation. So if you have a stock portfolio growing at 7% before inflation, and inflation is 3%, then you can safely withdraw 4% forever. The remaining principal will grow at 3% forever, and thus your annual payments will grow each year to keep up with inflation.

Similarly, if you have stocks that pay dividends, these dividends tend to increase with inflation, as does the stock price itself.

Similarly, if you use rental houses as your retirement income, you can raise your rents each year to keep up with inflation (or faster if your city experiences above-average growth over time). And the house price will on average keep up with inflation as well.

Thanks MMM. I guess in this environment, 7% is nice….I need to catch up on your blog, but isn’t a safer rate of return more like 6% if you are withdrawing…anyway, if you have a post with more concrete number examples I think that would be extremely helpful!

I’m a single person living in Manhattan on 27,000 per year. I get paid 9 months out of the year. Right now I’m putting $500 in savings every month I get paid, and I’ve destroyed $2,000 of credit card debt in the last three months. Looking to kick the ass of the remainder and move on with life. My work schedule is weird, so I still eat out more than I should, but I’m getting better at planning. I’m at least paying cash for everything now, earlier stupidity be damned.

Another front-ranger here (Boulder). I have been living on cash for the past 5 or 6 years and am faced with a need for a “new” car. I have always bought cars that are 5-10 years old for cash, all for between 4 and $10K. The last two ended up costing around $2500 per year for repairs and I sell them for about 75% of my purchase price. Let’s call it $8K original purchase for easy math.
$8K purchase. $7500 in repairs for three years. $6K exit revenue. That’s $9500 cost (not incl gas and ins…I figure those will be a wash), but I’m spending close to $300 per month over time. I’ve been considering a lease for about that amount.

Other notes:
1. I need a truck (new ones are expensive!)
2. I’ve been considering setting up a company which would buy the truck. Then I could write off depreciation and repairs.

Yes, and I would add regarding the “two teachers making $60k each per year” part, that my hubby and I are both teachers–he’s been in the field full-time for about 15 years and makes $54,000, I make less than that. And that does not include a health benefit package (it would cost us $1,000 per month out of pocket to cover our family of four through the school district.) Teacher compensation is not what it used to be, at least not in California.

In any case…thank you for the blog, Mr. Money. I’m just starting to read it and appreciate all the information!

I make 107K a year, and get 10% match for retirement benefits. Max out 457 and 403b, Roth IRA. Spend 12K for living with 8K for travel (with parents, as a single) in business class (by buying airmiles and hotel points). Have 900K in saving. Should I quit my job? My parents are rich and probably will leave me at least 1M down the road. If I do quit, I can cut down my spending as I don’t need to pay 700 usd rent any more. But will spend more to travel with parents.

Thanks MMM! New Canadian reader who was going back to complete blogroll each time to find next post.
Note to other newbies – “the white box just before the comments begin” doesn’t mean THIS comment box (the one I’m writing in now), it means the list of comments from readers starting just after each blog entry finishes.
It’s possible I’m the only challenged one who didn’t understand this right away and was clicking away on the little white box with the diagonal arrow running through it trying to get to the next post….

So I’m new here (hence the comment on a years-old post) but I’ve been reading around randomly and came to this early post. Since the example above fits me perfectly (two teachers making 60K each) and I already do lots of “mustachian” things (no car loans, no cc debt, bring lunch every day, make my own coffee, etc) but am looking to amp it up, I want to ask: do you mean that the example couple (ie, me) should be able to save 5000 per month on top of maxed-out 401Ks? We max our 401Ks, max our annual IRA contributions, and are aggressively paying down student loan debt. But I want more! MORE SAVINGS! I’d love to think that if I cut my grocery budget and bike more I can actually save thousands of dollars over and above my traditional retirement accounts. Please, reassure me that you think this is what is possible!

When I say “save”, I’m counting all forms of increasing your wealth. So principle payments on debt, 401k, IRA, and any other form of investment all count towards it. If you can get $5k/month out of all that, you are rocking!

Thanks! So in other words, we’re already on the right track – awesome!

You’ll like this: I have a four-year-old who, when I told her we were going to stop buying so much in order to save money (as she says, so we’ll become rich), said “since we already walk to the swimming pool [which we do daily] I don’t think we should drive our car to the grocery store; we should walk instead.” Pretty good insight for a little mustachian!

Okay, I love your optimism in this article. I’m new to this website, as I just discovered it. Obviously I am having a pretty negative time with money issues. I live with family, and have no job. I have bills I take care of which are basically this:

So that is EVERYTHING I have to take care of. But I need to make that PLUS more if I wanted to move out. The “other” is credit card debt. I’m 23, and I let youth and stupidity (more so not understanding how credit cards worked) get in the way of my credit score. It is AWFUL. As I said, I live with family and I’ve been struggling with depression and all that fun stuff. SO, I got let go from my job 4 months ago. Haven’t found a job yet, and I’m trying to get a job in a different city and move out, but that would be difficult, as I have so many bills to take care of and no job and no savings. So I started buying and reselling on eBay. It’s been going decent, enough to break even, but not always. Sadly, my gf has been helping me out financially with giving me 210 for my car note each month and so on. So yes, I am not well off with money and it stresses me out. It sucks. I tried to go to school back in 2011, but that didn’t pan out well. I went for half a semester and still haven’t paid that off. What should I do? I have just a HS degree, and about 7+ years of experience in customer service and sales as well as 4+ years experience with children. But I don’t want to do sales or customer service again. It sucks getting turned down for jobs too. But all I want, is what you have. No worries of money. I’m unsure how to start that out. I don’t know what kind of answer to expect, but I figured I’d just comment about my situation. I want to be happy in life. Being 23 and sad everyday and not being able to be positive SUCKS! I’m not completely blaming money for my depression, but I know a life without the worries of money will help me out tremendously. Thank you, and I will continue to read your articles.

Wow, all the best to you Taylor! The first thing I’d do on the money side is eliminate the insanely expensive car from your life. That thing is costing you $8600 per year, which is more than my family spends on cars in a decade! Getting back on a bike to get around will help your happiness and health, and you can ride it to the library to start checking out books to help you with all areas of life.

On the job front, you might also read this little 2-part series for some ideas:

Hi,
I’m new to your blog and found your story to be so inspirational and inspiring! While many personal finance blogs have great messages, I found yours to be much more relate-able to the average Joe. Although I COULD live in an RV and subsist primarily on rice and beans, I simply am not willing to take my quest for frugality quite to that extreme at this point in my life. If I was in my twenties and single still, that is certainly a possibility, but my family would not be willing to comply with such extreme measures.

Subsequently, your blog acknowledges the realism that most Americans, even those that WANT to be financially independent, aren’t truly willing (or able). I love the fact that you have a family (and a child!). This alone sets you apart from many financial bloggers whose method relies upon early retirement depending on remaining single (or at least childless).

Lastly, I think it’s fabulous you own a home along with having achieved early retirement. While I have had roommates in my earlier life, I would not want to attempt such a feat with a new baby. I can’t imagine roommates enjoying my child crying at 2 am for one thing!

Admittedly, I could save a tremendous amount of change if I was able to live alone in a studio apartment or by renting a room in a house again. However, life’s blessings have made renting a room unrealistic at this point in my life. I genuinely appreciate your perspective and find your blog to be highly relate-able! Keep up the great work!

@duff you can always go live up Coal creek canyon. I’m living ‘in Boulder’ in ’16 and rents and home values are insane. I’m trying to save on 50k a year, living with 4 others in an 800sq/ft home but the home values are rising faster than I can save for a 20% down payment (I work a full time job with a few hours on the weekends). I’m kind of exaggerating here but if I want a 2bd 1bath I’ll need about 100k to drop to avoid the mortgage insurance penalty And I would feel dumb if the Boulder bubble popped leaving me 300k underwater. I’ve strong considered and almost convinced the g/f to live in a westvalia VW and save the 1k a month.

My girlfriend is a teacher in NC. There are very few teachers here who will ever see 60k, especially now that masters pay has been eliminated. (She just finished her masters too so hopefully a future administration brings it back). Shes been teaching a short time but brings in about 2k a month after taxes since she has opted to receive her pay over 12 months rather than 9. This is plenty for us to live off of when we get married meaning we can save all of my income, which is currently double hers. Before buying my house (living with grandparents), I was saving about 80% of my post tax income and now save around 70%. Even after paying for grad school, my girlfriend managed to save $4000 of her income last year. Other than my mortgage, we are debt free. We are both on the same page financially and should be on the right track for early retirement (she doesn’t want to but I do).

Anyway, here’s my question. I have several older friends who are successful real estate investors (mostly rental properties) and after some market research have decided to get my foot in the door with some guidance from these mentors. Should I still be maxing out my 401K? My company doesn’t guarantee matching. Matching depends on if the company has met its sales growth goal for the year. My rationale is that by not investing in my 401k, I have more liquidity for rental investment purchasing and as a result, a potentially higher yield than index funds alone or a small match from my employer. Any advice for a young mustachian?

I noticed you keep referring to middle-class 60k/year. Should I stop reading? We currently make about 30k/yr with 3 kids. And have school debt that we can’t afford to pay on right now (and a mortgage). We have a priority of schooling for our kids (requiring me at home) and live pretty minimally. It’s the emergencies that always keep us behind.(like car repairs on our used cars/dental ect.). I’d like to move forward and we have been working to increase our income with not much avail… So are these articles irrelevant to me until we can earn more?

Hi Karan – I suggest you keep reading. This blog is about being efficient with money (and improving your life at the same time), and this only becomes MORE efficient, the lower your income is. For example, at 30k per year, food efficiency for a large family becomes really important.

And it is worth figuring out if you can free yourself from car dependence, as this is one of the most expensive things in family life at that income level.

Started reading your blog from the beginning. So far, so good. This post reminds me of when I was living in Miami about 10 years ago. The local weekly paper once noted that Miami had more $30k/year millionaires per capita than any other city in America.

Dear MMM,
When you wrote this “…start buying X at Y (in my case, Amazon) when they were already so tight on cash that they were saving NOTHING? And would they continue buying it once they saw that their credit card balance was starting to grow? What kind of idiot would do that? …”I can say I’m that Idiot, after my divorce, I spend 16 years of my life doing that stupid thing. Now I have three credit cards, one with a credit line of USD 6.000, exceeded by USD 2.000 more, in order to be able to use it I must pay 2.500 USD this month that DO NOT HAVE!, following that credit card I have another to buy groceries, 80% of the credit line consumed and another one with a credit line of 500 USD, which I already spent 200 USD.
Besides this debt, I have a car loan; a mortgage and a consumer loans for USD 200.000 total…I’m in the oven! My only hope is to sell an apartment that I own, to at least pay the credit cards or amortize one of the consumer loans that I have…because my son should start university next year!
Where do I start? The steps you teach us here are right for me???

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