As most of you know, we captured Tobi today.
We got almost 50 planets (150 left... ), but he saved his entire money (18 million credits!) with a defend solar system mission with 99.999 combat power needed.

I consider this as a bug. Please fix it - running missions should be automatically cancelled if you get conquered. The "ware transport bug" should be fixed too - he saved all his ressources, supplies and components by just sending them to a planet.

I think that ware-shipments should *not* be saved from the 25% cut.....

Well, I did the same when I changed the house. Ok, now Merthos is saying again: to be conquered by a friend without losses shouldn't be a part of the game, but I think the game has bigger problems than that.

For example, when the conquerer gets the planet, where you sent your things too. Then you lost everything, not just 25%...

I also think, we can not consider them as bugs.
And in my opinion it is desirable to leave it like this.
In case of a volontary integration you save some trouble to get back money and wares.

Now think about following:
Why do we have this 25%-Cut in Wares and Money, if you can outrun it ?
The question we should ask ourself now is:
Who suffers from the rules as they are now ?

Right! It's the newbies who dont know how to outrun it and the fair players who dont want to outrun it!

So there are only 2 ways in my eyes:
a) Cut the entire 25%-thingy out - for everyone, not only for the experianced players who know how to run it out.
b) "repair" the 25%-Cut - fill all the gaps as i suggested in my first post. Cancellation of missions and influence of the 25%-Cut on transferred wares.

Everything else is unfair - and i think you won't dispute that, are you ?

And to lebia's and surst's comments about easier house changes...

Quote:

Well, I did the same when I changed the house. Ok, now Merthos is saying again: to be conquered by a friend without losses shouldn't be a part of the game, but I think the game has bigger problems than that.

But Merthos is damn right about that!
Why do you think was the planet trade changed that you only can change one planet per round ? Yap, because of exactly the same reasons in an exactly same situation!
People could trade alle their planets to other housemembers before they got captured - this way they could save almost all the losses if they got captured by an enemy. And people could trade back all the systems in one round, making house changes more then easy.

This was changed - not without good reasons!

How "important" this change is doesn't really matters in this discussion... "There are more important things to do" is always a good phrase to kill any discussion - but there ALWAYS are more important things to do

Yes, I know the reasons and I have no problems with them. Thats not the point.

And as I said, its a high risk to send all your goods to one planet, what happens when this planet is conquered, you lost all, not only 25%.

Ayatollah wrote:

Everything else is unfair - and i think you won't dispute that, are you?

I don't really think that its soo unfair. Newbies don't have so much to lose.

I think, change the transport, that you can only send some of your stuff to an other planet. Like with the planets. Than you could save your important things and your conqueror will get 25% of the rest.

Yes, I know the reasons and I have no problems with them. Thats not the point.

Umm... nope... seriously, thats exactly the point

Quote:

And as I said, its a high risk to send all your goods to one planet, what happens when this planet is conquered, you lost all, not only 25%.

Almost impossible if you arent completly stupid.... really....

ayatollah wrote:

Everything else is unfair - and i think you won't dispute that, are you?

I don't really think that its soo unfair. Newbies don't have so much to lose.[/quote]

And thats a reason why it is not unfair? Your must be kidding me....

[/quote]I think, change the transport, that you are only able to send only some of you stuff to an other planet. Like with the planets. Than you could save you important things and you conqueror will get 25% of the rest.[/quote]
Umm... sorry, but thats... umm... kinda ineffective... and it makes no sense at all

ok, lets make a summary of our argments:

Fact is, that it is unfair. How much this impacts on the newbies really doesnt matters at all.
Fact is, that the 25%-rule is existant - not without reasons. So outrunning it is definitly some kind of an exploit - of course a minor exploit, because everybody knows and uses it - but it's still an exploit.
Fact is, that your only reason to keep it the way it is is, because it makes "house changing" easier.
Further it is a fact that it is *not* desirable to make house changes easy.

Umm... sorry, but thats... umm... kinda ineffective... and it makes no sense at all

Why does it makes no sense? You could say, every planet has only a limited number of transporters. So you can't send as much as you want too, only a limited number, why not?

And why does it make sense, that you are not allowed to sell more than one planet every day?

Ayatollah wrote:

Fact is, that the 25%-rule is existant - not without reasons. So outrunning it is definitly some kind of an exploit

You know, that sharing things in your house is only possible (except of the marketplace), when you do them on a planet and than sell the planet to the other. This is an exploit too, but you can read this in the help, so not every exploit is illegal.

i proposed some weeks ago to eliminate the 25% of all rule and raise the maximum tax level to 25% instead but nobody cared...

hehe, lets try to make it a little bit more extreme:

I would suggest that you lose ALL your Money and ALL your goods if you get captured.

Seriously, one of the major problems Kosmor has is ripping. What does that have to do with that thread ? Just read on!

What are the consequences if you get captured ?
*You can almost always save your fleet if the enemy is too strong.
*You can save all your money
*You can save all your goods
*You dont lose your factories

The only consequence of getting captured is that you loose your subordinates and some planets. But, be honest: Do you really think a player with 200 planets cares if he looses 50 ?!? Due to the star retribution tax only the first ~50 planets bring you "real" income.

This sucks - because you won the war, but you didn't weakend the enemy. I think money and wares should be risk factors - if you get captured your empire should sink into a state of revolution. The winning party steals all money and plunders all the wares. The "loser" shouldnt be able to do any fleet movements for at least one week. The factories should be reduced by 25% due to civil unrests and the plundering party. Further the factories shouldnt be able to build anything for about a week.

If you got captured, you should actually suffer critical, but not fatal losses! Even *if* you have more then 80 planets!

The way it is at the moment it doesnt really weakens you if you get captured - not if you have saved enough planets. And *this* leads to ripping!

Of course you still need to do something to protect the now weakend enemy from ripping. I would just suggest:
*While in civil unrest, nobody can capture any of your planets.
*While in civil unrest, your new leader doesn't get your radar overview.
*While in civil unrest, your war planet isnt able to carry any ships (even not your own!), but it can move 90 ly per day, giving you the chance to flee before the unrest ends and you can get captured again.
*If the enemy captured your HP, you can evacuate it as long as you are in the phase of civil unrest, giving you the possibility to flee with your HP. You are *not* allowed to select your HP - it will be automatically selected (calculated with 3 factors - position of your old hp, center of your house, random deviation of about 10-25%)

This way ripping would be almost impossible, but a conquered player would suffer a little more.

OK, maybe this should be posted in the suggestions forum...

Quote:

Why does it makes no sense

Because it completely misses what we aim for?
Getting conquered needs to be more hurting - otherwise ripping will be the only way to survive on the long run....

Quote:

You know, that sharing things in your house is only possible (except of the marketplace), when you do them on a planet and than sell the planet to the other. This is an exploit too, but you can read this in the help, so not every exploit is illegal.

Due to the fact that it is mentioned in the manual, it isn't an exploit. It's a feature - it was not mentioned to be one, but Maelstroem accepted it and it's consequences, so he legalized it by telling everyone thru the manual. BTW. before that there *were* discussions about it being a bug exploit

Because it completely misses what we aim for?
Getting conquered needs to be more hurting - otherwise ripping will be the only way to survive on the long run....

No, with these feature you aren't able to save all you goods, so it hurts. More than at the moment.

Ayatollah wrote:

Quote:

You know, that sharing things in your house is only possible (except of the marketplace), when you do them on a planet and than sell the planet to the other. This is an exploit too, but you can read this in the help, so not every exploit is illegal.

Due to the fact that it is mentioned in the manual, it isn't an exploit. It's a feature - it was not mentioned to be one, but Maelstroem accepted it and it's consequences, so he legalized it by telling everyone thru the manual. BTW. before that there *were* discussions about it being a bug exploit

Look, so we can do with this "feature". Change it and write in into the manual. I don't see there any problems.

I don't have to say a single word but my position is well known. Am I so omnipotent?

But yes, I really would like this bug to be fixed.

Walker wrote:

i proposed some weeks ago ... but nobody cared...

Well, having seen the speed, size and type of the enhancements in Kosmor for the last year I'm tired about discussing things that will never be changed. So I'm only interfering now when some suggestions go to far away from the Kosmor I like.
Although I understand that Maelstroem has to do a job for living I think there should be a way to get more man power for the developement, otherwise Kosmor will stay like it is now.