tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post116993459714471758..comments2016-12-09T07:37:09.957-06:00Comments on Althouse: The Peace March.Ann Althousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01630636239933008807noreply@blogger.comBlogger93125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-50910161566117722002007-03-22T11:37:00.000-05:002007-03-22T11:37:00.000-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Davidhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02927899008790437317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-5596394133144671062007-01-31T14:45:00.000-06:002007-01-31T14:45:00.000-06:00mr gumby, how do you know that the anti-war marche...mr gumby, how do you know that the anti-war marchers who didn't show up outnumber the pro-war marchers who didn't show up?<br /><br />People stayed away in droves, you know. Worldwide, over six billion.Buddyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17760847873026506988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170180597984175802007-01-30T12:09:00.000-06:002007-01-30T12:09:00.000-06:00A lot of commentors here have suggested that his f...A lot of commentors here have suggested that his fellow marchers should have called the Vive Saddam sign holder on his bullshit, which I haven't a problem with, but others say he should have been kicked out of the parade. How does one do that? And if one could, should one? If I show up to a parade because I am opposed to the handling, or even the existence of a war, does that give me a right to determine who else gets to participate in the protest? I can sit out the protest, in protest of those in the protest holding views I oppose, and perhaps I should, but then I'm silencing myself.<BR/><BR/>The problem with joining these marches is that you're going to end up being associated with those in the march with extreme views that catch the media's attention (as clearly happened here). Of course, you can sit it out, but then because you hold anti-Iraq-war views, you're going to be grouped with those people anyway. A protest march is a blunt instrument for communication. There's not much room for subtlety. Unfortunately, you and, it seems, the most vocal of your readers, seem incapable of noting that. If there are 99 marchers without signs and one with a Vive Saddam sign, you believe the one represents the 99. That would be fine if you also believed that each of the 100 marchers who showed up also represented another 99 who stayed home, but you don't, do you?mrgumby2uhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05582403425682011567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170133993122882972007-01-29T23:13:00.000-06:002007-01-29T23:13:00.000-06:00reality check wrote: "Unless you start actively ca...reality check wrote: "Unless you start actively calling the bullshit in your comments, we have no choice but to take at face value that they represent your beliefs."<BR/><BR/>We? Who is we? Who do you claim to speak for?<BR/><BR/>TreyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170102745766204972007-01-29T14:32:00.000-06:002007-01-29T14:32:00.000-06:00george, big war is not just ramped up small war--i...george, big war is not just ramped up small war--it's a whole different animal. "Total" vs "limited". There's a difference--has to do with an institutional and bureacratic mobilization that has a terrible corpse-multiplying momentum once a nation says "go". <BR/><BR/>OIF is a limited war, one that the military can fight and win if the rest of us would just STFU and let them DO it.<BR/><BR/>Otherwise we are almost sure to get the other, if history is any guide. <BR/><BR/>Hitler could've been stopped ten years earlier with a maybe 6,000 KIA loss rather than a 60,000,000. This is not agitprop, this is the facts, man, no matter what crappola word-salad anyone might throw at it.Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170101534916415962007-01-29T14:12:00.000-06:002007-01-29T14:12:00.000-06:00"Bring 'em Home Now" is so insufferable because it..."Bring 'em Home Now" is so insufferable because it assumes that anyone who disagrees (which inexplicably includes the vast majority of those over there doing the fighting) has no reason for doing so other than a whimsical disregard of human life, and, since something positive is needed for the model to justify, war-profiteering and perhaps a touch of homicidal racist pathology.<BR/><BR/>Unless you go all the way out to there, then you have to accept that a great many smart people are worried sick about another total world war, and are turning to history for a guide as to how to stop same, at minimum cost to all--including erstwhile and potential enemy populations.<BR/><BR/>George, as an MD your advice would be, on the grounds that immediate pain is the only problem, to simply never vaccinate, disinfect a wound, lance a boil, or perform surgery, regardless of the needs of the patient, regardless of the odds that in the breach he will be worse tomorrow. <BR/><BR/>Maybe it's that 'tomorrow' thing--maybe it's too delayed a gratification. A cognitive problem of some sort for sure, because it sure ain't rocket science.Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170101488751169992007-01-29T14:11:00.000-06:002007-01-29T14:11:00.000-06:00Pedanticpe·dan·tic /pə dænt ihk/ –adjective 1...<B>Pedantic</B><BR/>pe·dan·tic /pə dænt ihk/ <BR/>–adjective 1. ostentatious in one's learning. <BR/><BR/>—Synonyms 2. didactic, doctrinaire.<BR/><BR/><BR/>You know, you coulda just looked it up yourself, but glad to oblige.Pogohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15303347500532938816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170099260688416362007-01-29T13:34:00.000-06:002007-01-29T13:34:00.000-06:00Re: "how are you going to save our soldiers' lives...Re: <B>"how are you going to save our soldiers' lives by keeping them in Iraq"</B><BR/><BR/>It's an old story. WW2 lost millions of lives because of the errors ending WW1. Failing to understand that means you cannot be trusted with the lives of the troops. And if that is also what you mean those marchers "get", they're idiots.<BR/><BR/>P.S. It's nonresponsive and juvenile for you simply to say "<I>I'm</I> not self-righteous, <I>you</I> are. Nyaah nyahh nyahh."Pogohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15303347500532938816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170098101133644852007-01-29T13:15:00.000-06:002007-01-29T13:15:00.000-06:00Pedantic, Pogo? Look up the term.As for self-righ...Pedantic, Pogo? Look up the term.<BR/><BR/>As for self-righteousness, it's your post that reeks of it . . . and of illogic -- as just how are you going to save our soldiers' lives by keeping them in Iraq?George Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12652084233565575810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170091334455013012007-01-29T11:22:00.000-06:002007-01-29T11:22:00.000-06:00Re: "At least the students in your video get it."D...Re: <I>"At least the students in your video get it."</I><BR/><BR/>Don't be such a pedantic twit.<BR/>By your definition, only those who agree with you want to 'save lives' by 'bringing them home'. <BR/>It's a false choice, of course, and it is mere self-righteous preening to frame it thus.Pogohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15303347500532938816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170086920995091982007-01-29T10:08:00.000-06:002007-01-29T10:08:00.000-06:00Your arrogance is so typically Madisonian, Althous...Your arrogance is so typically Madisonian, Althouse. The war would look a lot different if you were not teaching at a campus of students who can afford college without having to sign up for the Guard or reserves.<BR/><BR/>At other UW campuses more connected to reality, we have been suffering the loss of students -- and the lives of our students -- for years. <BR/><BR/>And you bet we want to bring them home. That they won't be coming home to your campus doesn't make the lives of our students more expendable than the lives of yours.<BR/><BR/>At least the students in your video get it. You might try learning from them -- they apparently have more to teach you than you have to teach them.George Robertshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12652084233565575810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170086303738664562007-01-29T09:58:00.000-06:002007-01-29T09:58:00.000-06:00Madison, believe it or not, was not the center of ...Madison, believe it or not, was not the center of the antiwar movement on Saturday.<BR/><BR/>The DC marchers, probably 25 abreast on Constitution Avenue, took two hours to pass the starting point of the march. <BR/><BR/>This woman seemed to think that "Bring the troops home" was an appropriate thing to ask:<BR/><BR/>From the Washington Post coverage of the march:<BR/><BR/>Oriana Futrell, 21, of Spokane, Wash., came with a sign that said: "Bring my husband home now." She said her husband, Dan, an Army lieutenant, was in Baghdad. They were married in April. She said she was weary of attending military funerals.<BR/><BR/>"My husband deployed last June to Iraq," she said. "He is an Army infantry officer currently patrolling the streets of Baghdad. And I just have to say I'm sick of attending the funerals of my friends. I have seen the weeping majors. I have seen the weeping colonels. I am sick of the death."<BR/><BR/>"I don't know what else to say, other than: 'Bring them home,' " she said. "It is time. We need to bring them home where they can be safe."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170085242064782802007-01-29T09:40:00.000-06:002007-01-29T09:40:00.000-06:00Had the 1864 election gone the other way, and two ...Had the 1864 election gone the other way, and two nations formed, the process would likely have continued a bit further. We would probably be a dozen countries by now--the forces of balkanization having become legal & legit.Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170082801236284292007-01-29T09:00:00.000-06:002007-01-29T09:00:00.000-06:00If Lincoln was forced to sue for peace (or McClell...<EM>If Lincoln was forced to sue for peace (or McClellan got the presidency) there would be two nations here.</EM><BR/><BR/>Your probably right about the slavery issue. I think it is more likely that slavery would have been abolished even in the south if there would have been a southern victory.<BR/><BR/>The most probable outcome of a southern victory would have been more wars between the states. North and South would have remained bitter rivals. The western European Powers (Britain/France) would have remained allies to the South (their source of raw materials). The North would have embraced Germany as a natural ally. History would have been quite different (an interesting historical what if).Sloanasaurushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00761325919850938411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170076740438273052007-01-29T07:19:00.000-06:002007-01-29T07:19:00.000-06:00Really, hdhouse, does anyone -even the left- actua...Really, hdhouse, does anyone -even the left- actually <I>believe</I> a Zogby poll anymore, as opposed to finding it merely politically useful? <BR/><BR/>Zogby (and most polls) are manufactured news, not unlike corporate press releases.<BR/><BR/><I>Same Content, Brand New Box<BR/>44% Brighter!!!</I>Pogohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15303347500532938816noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170073541771955952007-01-29T06:25:00.000-06:002007-01-29T06:25:00.000-06:00tcSloanasaurus said... Seventy-two percent of troo...tcSloanasaurus said... <BR/>Seventy-two percent of troops on the ground in Iraq think U.S. military forces should get out ..Thank goodness Zogby wasn't around in the spring of 1864 - we would still have slavery."<BR/><BR/>Does this really make sense to you? If Lincoln was forced to sue for peace (or McClellan got the presidency) there would be two nations here. You also know that the preservation of the union was Lincoln's primary goal and the Emmancipation Proclamation was very specific as to slave freedom - who and where but it was not and would never be the paramount rational for the continuation of the war. But more than anything it was OUR civil war and thankfully other nations by in large kept their distance.<BR/><BR/>Now if you can tell me WHAT that has to do with a Zogby poll of US feelings about Iraq and other polls of the military there which are discounted with not so much as a by your leave by both this administration and the koolaide loyalists, ... well good god man, have you no decency?hdhousehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05387725832543120633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170039686313015872007-01-28T21:01:00.000-06:002007-01-28T21:01:00.000-06:00Seventy-two percent of troops on the ground in Ira...<EM>Seventy-two percent of troops on the ground in Iraq think U.S. military forces should get out of the country within a year, according to a Zogby poll released Tuesday.</EM><BR/><BR/>Thank goodness Zogby wasn't around in the spring of 1864 - we would still have slavery.Sloanasaurushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00761325919850938411noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170031384517696692007-01-28T18:43:00.000-06:002007-01-28T18:43:00.000-06:00Are any of these "real issues", one wonders?Are any of <A HREF="http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/hanson011907.html" REL="nofollow">these</A> "real issues", one wonders?Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170025372310625382007-01-28T17:02:00.000-06:002007-01-28T17:02:00.000-06:00How dare people in Madison and across the U.S. tak...How dare people in Madison and across the U.S. take to the streets to oppose the Iraq war and pressure Congress to take action!<BR/><BR/>Good thing there was one objectionable sign (among hundreds) for you all to blather on about. Otherwise you might be tempted to address the real issues.a woman for peacehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16264602790865294967noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170017625295400912007-01-28T14:53:00.000-06:002007-01-28T14:53:00.000-06:00I mean, if I had known, when I listened to her thi...I mean, if I had known, when I listened to her this morning, that she would misuse my listening to her in order to make me mess up that post, I would NEVER have listened to her.Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170015599301895522007-01-28T14:19:00.000-06:002007-01-28T14:19:00.000-06:00I'm sorry, Simon--I goofed. Misread, thought that ...I'm sorry, Simon--I goofed. Misread, thought that had come from 'reality check'. Gotta quit listening to Hillary while I read, destroys concentration. Apologies to rc, too.Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170014460721530702007-01-28T14:01:00.000-06:002007-01-28T14:01:00.000-06:00Buddy, where did I claim -- in this thread or any ...Buddy, where did I claim -- in this thread or any other -- "that poll numbers are the ultimate arbiter of right vs wrong re Iraq?"Simonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10756115908130493038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170012711786937282007-01-28T13:31:00.000-06:002007-01-28T13:31:00.000-06:00A majority has the power to do a lot of things in ...<I>A majority has the power to do a lot of things in this country, including the wrong thing, but a majority doesn't ipso facto make something the right decision</I><BR/><BR/>This from a person who a few inches upthread is claiming that poll numbers are the ultimate arbiter of right vs wrong re Iraq?Buddy Larsenhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13696810454020014148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170008755902752082007-01-28T12:25:00.000-06:002007-01-28T12:25:00.000-06:00red said..."The partial birth abortion law was pas...red said...<BR/>"<I>The partial birth abortion law was passed and signed into law in 2003.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Yes, but as admirable as its intentions may have been, <A HREF="http://stubbornfacts.us/domestic_policy/jurisprudence/althouse_on_partial_birth_abortion_and_emotional_arguments" REL="nofollow">it is also unconstitutional</A>, and will only survive if a majority of the Supreme Court decide to take the modest route of answering the narrow question presented in the litigation presently at bar: "no, FPBAA is not unconstitutional for the reasons the litigants assert" is not the same as "yet, it is within the power of Congress," an argument neither side wants to push.Simonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10756115908130493038noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6329595.post-1170008417261156772007-01-28T12:20:00.000-06:002007-01-28T12:20:00.000-06:00Naked Lunch said..."If you believe a Military Time...Naked Lunch said...<BR/>"<I>If you believe a Military Times poll, only 41% think we should have gone into Iraq in the first place.</I>"<BR/><BR/>Even if that poll were valid (which other commenters have refuted), I remain bemused why the left continues to push this argument that x% of Americans now believe that we shouldn't have gone into Iraq. What use is that argument? For what purpose is it advanced? It tells us nothing about what to do next. Four heart surgeons have a patient open on the table, and all four of them conclude they shouldn't have gone in - do they down tools and walk away? I'll stipulate that a majority now thinks it was a mistake to go into Iraq - what does that tell us about whether the surge, for example, is the right military strategy? Concluding that Iraq was a mistake is worthless for the purposes of assesing what we do next. <BR/><BR/><BR/>reality check said...<BR/>"<I>I don't think it means what Ann thinks it means that she can dismiss what 70% of America thinks because of one would be crackpot.</I>"<BR/><BR/>A couple of years ago, 70% of Americans supported banning partial-birth abortion, and I'll bet that number's only gone up since. I wonder what percentage of white southerners supported <I>Brown</I> or the Civil Rights Act. I bet you're not so keen on majority rule where that's concerned, right? 70% of the American people can be induced to say a lot of things to a push poll. A majority has the power to do a lot of things in this country, including the wrong thing, but amajority doesn't ipso facto make something the right decision. How many more seasons of American Idol do we have to endure before <I>that</I> point becomes clear? ;)Simonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10756115908130493038noreply@blogger.com