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Author
Topic: Hiv and stigma (Read 28126 times)

At my doctor's office, there are bulletins for straight groups, female-only groups, and gay groups. I think it depends on where you live, and almost always needs one dedicated and courageous straight person to start the process.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

At my doctor's office, there are bulletins for straight groups, female-only groups, and gay groups. I think it depends on where you live, and almost always needs one dedicated and courageous straight person to start the process.

Honestly? Because most of what I've read is coming from members of the gay community. I find it difficult to be able to partake in a meaningful discussion if the others involved can't relate to MY feelings. Just as I cannot relate to some of theirs. I know that we're all dealing with the same disease of HIV/AIDS...but the truth of the matter is, the different comfort levels of dealing and accepting what support there is available for those suffering. My typing skills suck...and it makes it difficult to be able to put my thoughts and feelings onto a written format while still conveying what I'm attempting to say without somebody taking offense. This is the internet after all...

I have to say while you're entitled to your opinion I think you're really quite wrong. I can relate to anyone who puts their cards on the table. You're selling us short if you think we can't partake in some interesting discussion with you and give useful reasonable advice regardless of the differences in our sexuality or gender. True enough gay men deal with a different level of stigma and assumption, it's still stigma and assumption. I think if you opened yourself up to the discussion you might be pleasantly surprised. As always I could be entirely wrong.

I rarely, if ever, diYou may have to wade through bawdy commentary, but at the end of the day, you are no different from me than Ann or Jan. I am not a woman. I will never have the HIV experience that they do. But we have a shared communication, and I think a bond had been formed thanks in large part to this site - not just our shared virus.

Give the place a chance. We will surprise you. Shock you sometimes. Offend you, more than likely. But we are a tight group of people. We do not discriminate based on race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or ability to dance.

Try reading through some of our LESSONS. They are way cool, and state of the art.

And look at some of the threads. We fight like cats, but we cuddle like dogs. And woe be it to people that hurt one of us, or threaten to. We mobilize like the fraking FBI. And we go from mutual insults to saving one another's asses in the blink of an eye.

No one gets out alive, it would seem, in this world.

But no one has to go it alone.

AIDSMEDS is a friend, if you want it to be.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Feelings are universal. There is no such thing as gay or straight or male or female feelings that one or the other can't "relate to".

It clear you haven't found the community willing to hear you out, yet, but maybe also you haven't tried.

Experiences are another matter. Someone might not have knowledge of other people's experiences (other sex, other orientation, other age, other ethnicity, other class, whatever). So of course there are communities that fit better - depending on what you are looking for - something specific, or something without boundaries.

The only thing in common here is that we all have HIV. Plus a few HIV- with loved ones with HIV. Otherwise, this is one of those communities without boundaries. You could join in and carve out a territory of special interest with a few others, or take it as it comes generally.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Just wanted to post quick so that nobody thinks I'm bailing on this conversation. I have a pet emergency happening here, and need to bring my cat (Popoki) in for an ultrasound. I'll be back after. I'd appreciate any prayers...

Just wanted to post quick so that nobody thinks I'm bailing on this conversation. I have a pet emergency happening here, and need to bring my cat (Popoki) in for an ultrasound. I'll be back after. I'd appreciate any prayers...

Thanks for that - it can be frustrating when someone drops into a conversation and then doesn't reply to people's posts. Hope your kitty is ok. My cats are saying some cat prayers for Popoki.

I agree with some of the others that differing sexual orientations shouldn't mean that there isn't any common ground. We have several straight men here who participate regularly and get on just fine with the group. There are also a few of us women knocking around the place too.

When you think about it, the fundamentals of any human relationships are the same regardless of the genders or orientations of the people involved. Love and admiration, hate and loathing and everything in-between are all the same and are things we all experience. We do have common ground - it's called humanity.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Mad, I have to applaud you for having gonads made of steel to do what you do. Some of us couldn't get away with that without at the very least having our car keyed or worse.

Thanks. So far, my car is still in good shape after 2 years.

Quote

As a person that was infected by transfusion, I can tell you with certainty, that there is little sympathy. The questions range from how can you be sure that is how you were infected, to comments that the blood supply has always been safe because it is tested. You are labeled a homosexual drug using prostitute whether it is true or not. There is no use defending how you were infected because the whole problem is these moral jackals who want to condemn and label entire groups of people regardless. They have the same shitty attitude about all gay people and all people with addictions whether they are infected or clean; doesn't matter if they are nice god loving hard working people or not.

Sorry to hear that I was wrong about transfusees getting sympathy. Hopefully, when homosexuality became more accepted, the stigma against all HIV+ people will be reduced.

Ultimately, we all have the virus, no matter how we contracted it. It only takes one act to contract it, whether it's receiving a transfusion, sexual contact, or IV drug use. Nobody should be so righteous as to expect everyone to always be perfect, whether us or doctors. They need to look in the mirror first.

Just got back from the vet. They're keeping Po at least overnight (anemia) and I'm absolutely beside myself after having to sign a resuscitation order.

It's funny, because I've been learning lately that when things seem like they're really bad in my life (I'm in a shit storm right now)...something comes along to make it 10 times worse. When whatever came along to make things worse works out, and things are back to when they seemed really bad...I'm grateful that it's all I have to deal with. That's kinda where I'm at right now.

I read the above comments before I took off this morning, and I do agree that at the end of the day we're all dealing with the same infection at different levels and stages. Back to where my frustration stems from. I'd been fairly involved with trying to put together a diverse support group some years back when I was the Chair for one of the area clinics CAB. There actually is an HIV Anonymous group that was put together about a year or so ago that is doing rather well and has been a great support for those affected by HIV and AIDS in the immediate area. While open to all regardless of age, race, sexual identity...etc...the couple of times I did attend...I was the only straight man in the room. Now I do understand that while there is only so much anybody can do to provide an open forum for all...whatever has been done...isn't working. What I'm told when I approach the people that are either responsible for these groups or those who actually facilitate these groups goes like this:

"We've posted bulletins in the exam rooms and throughout the clinic that we are attempting to put together support groups for the Gay and Hetero community. While we do get some interests from the different demographics, ultimately we have no straight men show up for the group. We can't do more than that with what we have for resources" Or..."The group is open to everybody. We don't turn anybody away or make anybody uncomfortable being here. It's pretty diverse, but people do come and go..."

Let's face it. There are more gay men that are open about being positive than straight men (please note that I said "open about their status"...not infected, as I can't quantify numbers here). So...that being said, the likelihood of a support group being predominately gay oriented is pretty high. Personally...I have no interest in hearing "some" of the discussion that takes place in these groups. I understand sexual activities, but have no interest in hearing about cruising or hearing about how HIV has effected somebodies ability to hit the bookstores or prostitute on the streets. Is this true of everybody in the room? NO! But the whole HIV stigma reeks of those images...that's what was discussed in the opening of this thread. If I'm in a room and somebody starts talking about such things...I want to smack them upside the fucking head! Dude! You're in a room with a bunch of people that are infected with HIV and AIDS. What don't you get?!!! And YES...I do understand that HIV doesn't take away ones sexual desires, or put food and a roof over ones head, or provide the drugs that one may be addicted too. But...as a straight guy, I wanna be able to stand up in the middle of a room and say "I'm tired of being thought of as a gay man...and the fucking stereotypical image of standing on the street corner or hanging out in bath houses!!!" Is that stereotypical image fair to men that ARE gay? NO!!! But I have the right to be able to at least separate myself from the "Being thought gay" part!!! I'm not a homophobe. I don't judge what other people do sexually to get their rocks off...even if it involves farm animals. But give me the decency to not automatically be grouped into something I'm not! Picture if you can...being in a room, predominately filled with gay men, and standing up as a straight guy screaming that shit out. Comfortable is not a word that jumps to mind. But...whatever groups that are available, are open to the hetero community as well as the gay community. There shouldn't be any problem...

I hope that I haven't offended anybody here. I've popped into these forums out of desperation. I'm not happy with what my life has become due to side effects of HIV meds and the virus itself. Suicide is a predominant thought on a daily basis, in spite of counseling and medications to treat my depression. I feel like my entire life is a lie, because I cannot let those around me know everything that I'm dealing with, out of fear of rejection. I don't know if jumping in here is going to help any...but it can't hurt

Great post klipsch - you definitely know how to express yourself - and I for one, as a gay man, was not offended in the least - as you are merely stating your feelings and what is your reality in being a heterosexual person with HIV.

I really hope you stick around the Forums here and contribute your thoughts and experience. I think that you will find yourself in time making some good friends on here - both straight and gay.

While I don't think you will agree with every post - and some of the turns they take - I do think there will be posts that will make you be able to gain strength, comfort and support from seeing the similarities.

Thanks again for being open and expressing yourself the way you did in your post. Also, I hope your pet gets well and back home quickly.

I'm with Phil on this one. Your post was very honest, clear, and not offensive at all. In the end we are all just humans living with an unwanted passenger. How we got this crap is absolutely irrelevant, but society is very quick at making assumptions once they discover a person's HIV status.

Now that you have opened up (and shown that you have some good thoughts to contribute) I hope that you do stick around --whether to seek advice, be foolish every once in a while, or have people that you can look to whenever depression rears its ugly head. We may get rowdy some times, but you have some great people that you can count on if ever needed.

Ps./ hope that Mr. Po gets well soon. I'll ask my feline companions, Ms. Lola and Lady Becks, to send him some good vibes. They happen to have a direct line to Bastet.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

I actually found the parts of the post where there's seemingly a drawn line from gay men > prostitutes > farm animals a bit distressing, but I'll wait and see what klipsch posts are like down the line. At least from his user name he likes a good quality audio speaker.

I've also been in plenty of support groups where at least half the gay guys are equally uncomfortable when a heterosexual attends the meeting, though personally I always welcome them and appreciate a diverse dynamic. I also try to put on different shoes and think what I would think if I was the straight guy in this epidemic, and I can understand the sense of isolation though I think in many cases it can become circular and self-fulfilling. I urge klipsch to at least seek out some one-on-one counseling, because the bottom line is that you need face-to-face opportunities to express yourself and it pains me to see someone not being able to locate something.

If you lived where I lived I'd be willing to assist you in this, but I don't know if you do or where you live -- if you're willing to disclose the information perhaps someone else here would be willing to look into opportunities that you may have missed in your searches.

Just wondering if you tried discussing that issue of everyone assuming you are gay, etc. etc, and your feelings about it, with the gay men in the HIV support group? I could imagine that going either way, but I guess I want to hope the gay guys would respond to your expression well enough - just like the gay guys in this online forum.

Gay guys with HIV also get tired of all the assumptions people make. It's called stigma and stereotypes, thats for sure, and we all have to deal with it.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

I actually found the parts of the post where there's seemingly a drawn line from gay men > prostitutes > farm animals a bit distressing, but I'll wait and see what klipsch posts are like down the line. At least from his user name he likes a good quality audio speaker.

I've also been in plenty of support groups where at least half the gay guys are equally uncomfortable when a heterosexual attends the meeting, though personally I always welcome them and appreciate a diverse dynamic. I also try to put on different shoes and think what I would think if I was the straight guy in this epidemic, and I can understand the sense of isolation though I think in many cases it can become circular and self-fulfilling. I urge klipsch to at least seek out some one-on-one counseling, because the bottom line is that you need face-to-face opportunities to express yourself and it pains me to see someone not being able to locate something.

If you lived where I lived I'd be willing to assist you in this, but I don't know if you do or where you live -- if you're willing to disclose the information perhaps someone else here would be willing to look into opportunities that you may have missed in your searches.

Well stated Ms. P - I was wondering what resources might be like where "K" lives also...

Just got back from the vet. They're keeping Po at least overnight (anemia) and I'm absolutely beside myself after having to sign a resuscitation order.

Sorry to hear about your pet, I hope he gets better.

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Let's face it. There are more gay men that are open about being positive than straight men (please note that I said "open about their status"...not infected, as I can't quantify numbers here). So...that being said, the likelihood of a support group being predominately gay oriented is pretty high.

There are more gay men infected also in this country. Also more gay men than women infected. So, of course gay men will make up more of the support group attendants.

Quote

Personally...I have no interest in hearing "some" of the discussion that takes place in these groups. I understand sexual activities, but have no interest in hearing about cruising or hearing about how HIV has effected somebodies ability to hit the bookstores or prostitute on the streets. Is this true of everybody in the room? NO! But the whole HIV stigma reeks of those images...that's what was discussed in the opening of this thread. If I'm in a room and somebody starts talking about such things...I want to smack them upside the fucking head! Dude! You're in a room with a bunch of people that are infected with HIV and AIDS. What don't you get?!!! And YES...I do understand that HIV doesn't take away ones sexual desires, or put food and a roof over ones head, or provide the drugs that one may be addicted too. But...as a straight guy, I wanna be able to stand up in the middle of a room and say "I'm tired of being thought of as a gay man...and the fucking stereotypical image of standing on the street corner or hanging out in bath houses!!!" Is that stereotypical image fair to men that ARE gay? NO!!! But I have the right to be able to at least separate myself from the "Being thought gay" part!!! I'm not a homophobe. I don't judge what other people do sexually to get their rocks off...even if it involves farm animals. But give me the decency to not automatically be grouped into something I'm not! Picture if you can...being in a room, predominately filled with gay men, and standing up as a straight guy screaming that shit out. Comfortable is not a word that jumps to mind. But...whatever groups that are available, are open to the hetero community as well as the gay community. There shouldn't be any problem...

I see a contradiction between your fear of "being thought gay" and "I'm not a homophobe". There is no way "being thought gay" is worse than being positive . And if you feel the need to "smack them upside the fucking head", there is definitely something wrong. I also think the part about farm animals is offensive.In a support group, people talk about themselves and their problems, whatever they are. Everybody is different and has their own. While the subject of sex does come up at support groups, if you want people to listen to you, I think you have to keep an open mind and listen to them too. Even if a couple of members of a group fit the sterotypes that you don't fit, I'm certain that not all of them do.

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I hope that I haven't offended anybody here. I've popped into these forums out of desperation. I'm not happy with what my life has become due to side effects of HIV meds and the virus itself. Suicide is a predominant thought on a daily basis, in spite of counseling and medications to treat my depression. I feel like my entire life is a lie, because I cannot let those around me know everything that I'm dealing with, out of fear of rejection. I don't know if jumping in here is going to help any...but it can't hurt

Based on my experience at the support groups I have attended, I think you'll find much commonality with gay men that attend them. Those themes are frequently discussed.

I'm heading out the door to go visit Po at the clinic. But I wanted to address the "farm animals" reference. I was more referring to my own practices. I mean, who doesn't keep a few farm animals around? Also...I've been receiving one on one counseling weekly for the past 7+ years. It's what keeps me sane (well that...and some meds...lol)

Thanks all for the well wishes for Po. So far so good...but he's there at least overnight.

Granny60

I'm with Phil on this one. Your post was very honest, clear, and not offensive at all. In the end we are all just humans living with an unwanted passenger. How we got this crap is absolutely irrelevant, but society is very quick at making assumptions once they discover a person's HIV status.

Well said Moon. Klipsch: As a heterosexual couple we find some of the groups a little strange when half the people in the group are just there to to hook up or try to score some dope, but on the other hand we find the majority of our gay friends find those same people a little off base also. It is a little hard to sort out at first who still has a head on their shoulders and just wants to help everyone they can and live their life as normal and peaceful as possible, but let me assure you, they are out there. 4 of our best friends are 2 gay couples. We will all do anything to help the other. We don't live close, but do travel to get together several times a month. We help each other with their problems, we visit, we eat, and we understand each other. We come from completely different backgrounds, but that also allows us to help each other because some of us has knowledge beneficial to the others when needed. In the end we are cemented together by two things.... our HIV status, and that we truly care about each other's well being. We live in a very rural area, out of maybe 500 infected people maybe only 12 people show up for group meeting's. Out of that dozen people maybe five would be willing to give you a meal, or a ride or cry with you when your partner is sick. Give everyone a chance. You will find there are gay people who will stand behind you and defend you and support you. You will also find those who you will do the same for. It is just like gardening, you have to cultivate a relationship and pull a few weeds, but in the end, there is the sweet nectar of a ripe melon that makes it all worthwhile. P.M. me if you need someone to listen. Hope kitty gets better. Oh, and from having a long life of turmoil, I have learned, the best way to handle when the shit piles up on top of you, is to tackle one problem at a time. Fix it, brush it aside, then tackle the next one. If you try to handle them all at once it overwhelmes you and you never find the end. Each individual success gives you the energy to defeat the next problem and more experience to boot.In the end, you will be proud of your accomplishments. Be Well friend!

Just a quick one here, as I'm still kind of out of it with Po still being at the hospital. BTW...His red blood count is low, though lab work and ultrasound don't show anything that stands out to explain it. Labs sent out yesterday will be back this afternoon. They're checking his red cell count again today. On the bright side...no foreign matter or signs of cancer showed on the ultrasound. Still need to take xrays of lungs and heart. He's an indoor (him and his brother) cat, 8 years old and I've got full health insurance coverage on the two of them including cancer riders.

Back to address something that nobody probably picked up unless you were a very talented medium. I don't want anybody to get the idea that the straight/gay thing is black or white with me. I'm just angry, and have been since the days when I was the Chair for the CAB and trying to put together a group. The Co Chair who was a gay male, campaigned against the group because they weren't happy with the ASO that was offering their office space. Some crap about how the ASO was supporting or not supporting the gay community in a manner that he thought they should be. I was also accused by the same person to be starting a group so that I could meet guys. HELLO!!!??? After that...I faded out of the picture, and the CAB out of anger and frustration. Since that time, as I mentioned previously...my experiences have been with groups being organized, and the apparent lack of concern for whether straight men had a place they could feel comfortable coming too. The individuals that I had spoken too were all from the gay community as well. The underlying theme that developed in my head was that the HIV community (predominately gay) could give two shits about whether straight men were suffering in isolation living with what on a large part...due to BS stigma...is viewed as a gay mans disease.

So again...it's not a straight/gay thing with me. It's just anger that I feel is justified...even though I also understand that it could be my own efforts that are needed to effect the change I want to see. By hetero men not showing up...they are in fact creating the illusion that help is not required. I don't have the energy that I once had. I'm completely overwhelmed with where my life is at the moment with health and finance issues, and being left in limbo wondering if my SSDI to be approved.

I know that everybody experiences the stigma associated with HIV/AIDS. But does that negate the fact that some experience that stigma with feeling more ostracized than others?

Since that time, as I mentioned previously...my experiences have been with groups being organized, and the apparent lack of concern for whether straight men had a place they could feel comfortable coming too. The individuals that I had spoken too were all from the gay community as well. The underlying theme that developed in my head was that the HIV community (predominately gay) could give two shits about whether straight men were suffering in isolation living with what on a large part...due to BS stigma...is viewed as a gay mans disease.

I'm glad you are sharing your feelings, however, I am very uncomfortable with your implying that gays have some form of moral obligation, to help straight pozzies, because of stigma. I'm sorry you feel stigmatized and now you know how I have felt for 56 years. I am a gay man and straight people have made my life a living hell for over five decades. It is not the fault of gays that the public vilified us as carriers of the "gay plague". The reason we have support groups, etc., is that we worked our asses off to secure funding and create and run said groups.

I've been involved with ASO's for decades and every group, ever started for straight folks, never succeeded because not enough people will attend. That is not the fault of gay people, or anyone for that fact, it is simply reality concerning certain types of support groups. I'm sorry if I appear harsh, but nobody every did anything for the gay community, when this disease started. We were considered expendable and treated horribly and sadly that stigma remains today, but gays had nothing to do with creating that stigma.

I'm glad you are sharing your feelings, however, I am very uncomfortable with your implying that gays have some form of moral obligation, to help straight pozzies, because of stigma. I'm sorry you feel stigmatized and now you know how I have felt for 56 years. I am a gay man and straight people have made my life a living hell for over five decades. It is not the fault of gays that the public vilified us as carriers of the "gay plague". The reason we have support groups, etc., is that we worked our asses off to secure funding and create and run said groups.

I've been involved with ASO's for decades and every group, ever started for straight folks, never succeeded because not enough people will attend. That is not the fault of gay people, or anyone for that fact, it is simply reality concerning certain types of support groups. I'm sorry if I appear harsh, but nobody every did anything for the gay community, when this disease started. We were considered expendable and treated horribly and sadly that stigma remains today, but gays had nothing to do with creating that stigma.

I'm glad you are sharing your feelings, however, I am very uncomfortable with your implying that gays have some form of moral obligation, to help straight pozzies, because of stigma. I'm sorry you feel stigmatized and now you know how I have felt for 56 years. I am a gay man and straight people have made my life a living hell for over five decades. It is not the fault of gays that the public vilified us as carriers of the "gay plague". The reason we have support groups, etc., is that we worked our asses off to secure funding and create and run said groups.

I've been involved with ASO's for decades and every group, ever started for straight folks, never succeeded because not enough people will attend. That is not the fault of gay people, or anyone for that fact, it is simply reality concerning certain types of support groups. I'm sorry if I appear harsh, but nobody every did anything for the gay community, when this disease started. We were considered expendable and treated horribly and sadly that stigma remains today, but gays had nothing to do with creating that stigma.

Thank you for giving me a different perspective. While I'll never be able to understand what's gone on for years for gays...I'd like to consider myself willing and open minded enough to read, listen and try. I wasn't trying to pin the stigma associated with HIV/AIDS on the gay community. Society is fucking ignorant, and for the most part, has no desire to change. Please allow me to clarify myself. I'm not implying that the gay community has any such obligation to help provide support for "straight pozzies" Nor am I going to say that the straight community needs to learn to accept that if it weren't for infected gay men starting the available groups, that there wouldn't be ANY at all. Neither scenario is realistic. I'm just fucking pissed off about the whole fucking thing, the way that it is TODAY in this moment. My dealings since being diagnosed in 98 have mainly been with members of the gay community at different levels and in different professions. So if I'm not overly fucking thrilled with what I've seen, I only have that exposure to base my experience. If I were black, suffering in a society of mostly whites, I'd be angry with whitie, based on any negative experiences predominately handled by the white community. It's all fucking wrong. I'm not minimizing anybodies feelings or experience...but I'm also not going to minimize my own.

Thanks for the clarification and I wish I had an easy answer for you. All I can suggest is that you contact an ASO and offer to start the type of group you would like. From my experience, problems arise, if you don't have a couple of people willing to be responsible to run the groups. You don't really need any special training to facilitate a group, just the desire to provide a safe and nurturing atmosphere, where people feel comfortable talking about their issues. At some point, you need to brush the stigma aside and decide on what is right for you. You want a straight HIV support group, then stand up and start one. All it takes is one person, to care enough, to get the whole thing started.

The stigma that goes with being HIV positive sucks. Especially those of us who are straight. I am sure its not easier for a gay person, but I feel there is a different kind of stigma associated with being straight and HIV positive. People assume automatically that I'm gay, I have no problem with gay people or care what people think, but it does suck. I also feel that a negative gay man would more likely not have a problem with dating someone who is positive. Finding a girl who is cool with an HIV positive boyfriend is a few far between.

The stigma that goes with being HIV positive sucks. Especially those of us who are straight. I am sure its not easier for a gay person, but I feel there is a different kind of stigma associated with being straight and HIV positive. People assume automatically that I'm gay, I have no problem with gay people or care what people think, but it does suck. I also feel that a negative gay man would more likely not have a problem with dating someone who is positive. Finding a girl who is cool with an HIV positive boyfriend is a few far between.

Hi Jayad , Please don't think I'm trying to take exception with anything you are saying , I'm not , I'm just trying to better understand how straight people feel about HIV stigma and the perception by some that you must be gay if you have HIV .

Most people when they meet me assume that I'm straight and I have never been offended by that . If I'm hearing you guys right you feel being perceived as gay is stigmatizing in itself and there for adding to the burden you are already dealing with as a person with HIV .

Food for thought guys ... I guess we are more alike than we realized , we are both dealing with the the same stigma form the same group of people where ever stigma exist .

I'm confused -- why can't a straight guy go to a heterosexual support group. Yes, it might be 98% women but they are straight, you just need to make sure you there for support and not to meet prospective partners.

I see plenty of hetero groups, but I live in large city -- I've not been to one so I can't say how many straight guys are in them, but it just seems to me that the OP only wants a group with straight guys and I don't think he's going to find one outside of a very large city.

ps: has the OP stated where he lives or if in fact it's in and/or near a large city?

The stigma that goes with being HIV positive sucks. Especially those of us who are straight. I am sure its not easier for a gay person, but I feel there is a different kind of stigma associated with being straight and HIV positive. People assume automatically that I'm gay, I have no problem with gay people or care what people think, but it does suck. I also feel that a negative gay man would more likely not have a problem with dating someone who is positive. Finding a girl who is cool with an HIV positive boyfriend is a few far between.

I am confused by your comments. You start by saying there is a different stigma associated with being straight and poz and that people assume that you are gay. You then go on to say you have no problem with gays, nor care what people think, but it still bothers you. I would submit that you do have a problem with being perceived as gay and you do care what others think about you. Stigma, in any form, sucks and the sooner you stop caring about what others think of you, the sooner you will find that the stigma can no longer affect you. It's all a matter of perception. You know who and what you are, so why do you care what others think? I believe if you can answer that question, you may find the relief that you seek.

I'm confused -- why can't a straight guy go to a heterosexual support group. Yes, it might be 98% women but they are straight, you just need to make sure you there for support and not to meet prospective partners.

I see plenty of hetero groups, but I live in large city -- I've not been to one so I can't say how many straight guys are in them, but it just seems to me that the OP only wants a group with straight guys and I don't think he's going to find one outside of a very large city.

ps: has the OP stated where he lives or if in fact it's in and/or near a large city?

Are you referring to the real OP or has that switched to me at least in regards to the support group topic? Support groups aren't what I'm concerned about. I was only trying to explain where and when my anger and disdain originated. But I'm not going to get into a debate regarding straights and gays or the justification of actions by either group. This thread is about the stigma associated with HIV. My original question was regarding "how many posters in this thread are straight?" To me...it appeared that some took offense that I even ask such a question. Let me say...that I can try my best to empathize with the stigma that gays have had to deal with for unheard of amounts of time. I will never be able to understand the anger felt that would produce this statement. "I'm sorry you feel stigmatized and now you know how I have felt for 56 years. I am a gay man and straight people have made my life a living hell for over five decades. It is not the fault of gays that the public vilified us as carriers of the "gay plague". I've been brought up in the society that produced that stigma as a straight man. However...I never did any part to contribute to it. Gays have been the brunt of jokes an humor for as far back as I can remember...with even recent comedy acts I've seen referring to Hell as a place where you will "Blow and get fucked up the ass for eternity by demons" (Louie C.K.). From an early age I was "programmed" to believe that "being gay" is the worst possible thing that could ever happen to you. I stated earlier in this thread that I have gay friends and associates. I dated a woman who identified herself as a lesbian when we first met for more than 3 years, and dealt with the disapproval from her friends and previous girl friends. It didn't create anger inside of me...it was only more experience that each of us is entitled to our own views and sexual preferences. Just because I understand that it is unjust for society to shun a group of individuals based on sexual preferences...it doesn't mean that I want to make my life any more fucking difficult than it is already, by being thought of as something that I'm not. "I'm sorry you feel stigmatized and now you know how I have felt for 56 years. I am a gay man and straight people have made my life a living hell for over five decades" That is not my fucking fault. If there were a way to turn back time and correct it...I would certainly try. But to almost wish somebody else to feel the pain, anger and isolation that another has felt their entire life...isn't helping anybody trying to take an active roll on this board.

I don't want to attend support groups. I don't even want to think about being HIV+. I live in functional denial for as much of my time awake as possible...because my life is overwhelming now. I don't expect everybody in here to understand or accept my feelings about the stigma in my life created by being HIV+. I simply popped into a thread for the first time since I became a member here some time ago...because the title caught my attention and it's something I have direct experience with. If gay members of the board can't understand the problem I have with being automatically thought gay just because I'm HIV+...I don't know what else to say. Maybe it's because I've been brought up in a society that refers to Hell as a place where you will "Blow and get fucked up the ass for eternity by demons". Again...I didn't do anything to fucking promote that stigma! But I also don't want to be a part of it! I'm having a hard enough time with dealing and accepting that I'm HIV+...

Again...I didn't do anything to fucking promote that stigma! But I also don't want to be a part of it! I'm having a hard enough time with dealing and accepting that I'm HIV+...

I never meant to suggest that you support any form of stigma against gays. What I was trying to do, is help you to understand that we all live under clouds, usually not of our making, but how to you choose to LIVE is all that matters. I believe I understand how you feel and it's awful that people make assumptions about us, that are not true. However, some people will probably always make assumptions, so your option is on how you react. Growing up gay, I developed a very thick skin and I learned very early a very important lesson. The only opinions I care about, are from people whom I respect, or from people who know me very well. Anything said, not by those groups, just rolls off my back. They do not know me, they do not know my life and they have no concept as to who and what I am, so why should I care what they think.

I think most of us here, understand your frustration, but we just don't have an easy answer for you. I hope you stay active in the forum, because you are a decent, caring man, who needs some help adjusting to being poz. We have all been there and if you look, there are many people here who share your same hopes, dreams and frustrations. With your life being as hectic as it is right now, maybe it's time to reconsider why this issue bothers you so much and find a way to cope. We can never stop people from making assumptions, we can however, change how we react to those assumptions. No it's not fair and it can be painful when others appear to look down on us. I simply choose not to be impacted, because I have real issues to address and the irrational musings of strangers is not one of them.

my aso caters to heterosexuals. there are a lot of straight men that go on the mixed night or substance abuse nights. we also have a brave hetero or two that come to our mens' group. it's like 98% gay, lol.

the mixed groups are where the heteros tend to go in so cal. by mixed i mean male/female. and most of the ladies are hetero too.

I honestly have not gone the group route for years and years. Being a bit of (to put it mildly) an isolationist, I would likely not - or at least have never found - those group atmospheres helpful to me. Well, with the exception of finding out that, though I may indeed be crazy, the mental issues regarding Sustiva (at the time, not documented nor taken seriously) were widespread. Nice to know it's not ALL me, in that regard.

But I get a lot of that here, now. And I don't have to change out of my jammies. And the food is better.

I think that if finding solidarity with other people that ignores the sexual orientation aspect is paramount, then finding (or starting) a tightly moderated group, where off-color or gay specific stuff is not the focus. We could go all day about Norvir and Isentress and Atripla and never ever venture into whose junk goes into where.

Granted, here some threads derail. But such is the nature. I understand the need to feel comfortable, and trust me, a quick look into the "Off Topic" forum reads like a primer for gay porn circa 1993. But ya know? It's also about pets we love who are sick or who died. And people gang ALL UP in each other's shit when that happens.

Take a look at WillyWump's thread about his very sick mother. We piled up on him like crazy. We often fight like feral cats, and sometimes hump one another's legs like unhousetrained puppies. But when push comes to shove (and who am I kidding? This is AIDS. Push ALWAYS comes to shove) we have one another's back, in a global way.

Personally, I like mixed groups like this one WAY more than ALL Male/All Gay groups. When I wasnt to feel judged or inadequate, I can always go to the gym.

I come here for information; that scant bit I can impart, and the generous wealth that others have to share.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Well I feel I have offended people with my previous post and I apologize. I am very new to this and still trying to figure it all out. I have actually a great respect for gay people. When I was first diagnosed I talked to several gay people on a gay dating website, this is before I discovered the forum. They helped me through the first week by talking to them and asking tons of questions. We are all stigmatized in one way or another. I don't want to make anyone mad in here. I do apologize again.

Well I feel I have offended people with my previous post and I apologize. I am very new to this and still trying to figure it all out. I have actually a great respect for gay people. When I was first diagnosed I talked to several gay people on a gay dating website, this is before I discovered the forum. They helped me through the first week by talking to them and asking tons of questions. We are all stigmatized in one way or another. I don't want to make anyone mad in here. I do apologize again.

Well I feel I have offended people with my previous post and I apologize. I am very new to this and still trying to figure it all out. I have actually a great respect for gay people. When I was first diagnosed I talked to several gay people on a gay dating website, this is before I discovered the forum. They helped me through the first week by talking to them and asking tons of questions. We are all stigmatized in one way or another. I don't want to make anyone mad in here. I do apologize again.

Dude...that original post was probably the best I've read in almost 12 years. It's nice to know I'm not imagining things.

Again...I'm not bailing on this thread. Here's the copy/paste from a couple of cigar forums I'm a member of. It's just too much for me to get into right now...

My cat Po (Popoki) has become really sick. I brought him to the vet last Thursday night, and blood tests came back showing that he had anemia. What they didn't show was why? Po went into the hospital last Friday to get an ultrasound of his lower abdomen, to check for bleeding, masses...and whatnot. There was swelling in his stomach and his intestines...but more blood work didn't explain why. It's been thought that he has pancreatitis...and we're waiting on more lab work to come back hopefully by tomorrow. Po came home last night, because he hadn't eaten since last Wednesday, and we wanted to see if it was just because he was really scared at the hospital. He did eat, but I brought him back today because he was dehydrated and felt that they could provide better care. Now they're talking exploratory surgery to do biopsies for cancer or some other medical problem. Estimate for open surgery is $3700 and they can't guarantee anything. I have pet insurance...but they can't tell me what they'll reimburse...until they have a final diagnoses. I'm about $2500 into this already. I always told others that pet insurance would keep you from having to make a decision based on whether or not you have the finances to provide your pet the medical care they need...but that's exactly where I'm finding myself now. And I don't know what to do...