I was having a spirited debate with some Team members regarding the "Nos Defions" skull and arrows emblem. Our confusion revolves around who uses (entitled to) the emblem. Most guys regrettably do not know the history of it and I feel a little gun shy about using it on a standard ODA. As I understand it, the symbol was originated during Project Blue Light out at Mott Lake. It has never been institutionalized by SF, but is a powerful symbol that invokes a state of mind. Does CIF regularly use it as a heritage right or is it acceptable for ODA Team guys to fly the flag? Any insight would be great.
~z

Actually...I'm going to be the decenter here, even in the depth of knowledge here. The original use was in the OSS, hence why it is French. I read this term in a book about the OSS but I am no where near said book at this time.

__________________Come on boys, you got to do it right, pray to the moon in the middle of the night

The original nous defions that the SOT types used came into its own after mike bellinger drew it up. I used to have that old mott lake compound post 5th group. SGM Jakevenkos crew adopted it from belingers drawing. When I got there they had just started using the range 37 ranges and the cadre / students / classrooms still satyed at the mott lake area.

The nous defions emblem was everywhere but the originals where painted in the kitchen area (along with a full sized painting of Paul Poole - the stud that he was .

even when I first went there in 79? they used the nous defions logo on the best team plaques - I still have one from 1980. - they dropped the old 3 week course while i was there and the sfartietc course became the only course out there (13 weeks at the time) then we pulled in the SOTIC crew to the lake .

I still hate the day that they made us paint over the helicopter landing pad that was the nous defions because they linked the symbol to the nazi death head "tottenkopf" - it wasnt nazi it was OSS and french resistance - the old jedburgh crew have more on that ( I was involved in filming and archiving interviews with the old jedburgh crews with american montage films in NYC) - still havent figured what to do with that archive

I always thought it was a bad ass symbol and was perfect for the CQB / CT mission. I have had it on the side of every tactical and motorcyckle helmet i have ever owned.

I also have the web site nousdefions.com registerd to my company (anyone want it?)

__________________I dont recall ever being released from my vow to defend the constitution against all enemys foreign and domestic (read that liberals and globalists)

I went to the second SOT class conducted at Mott Lake by the former BLUE LIGHT cadre. Literally still have the t-shirt w/ logo.

Teams have used that image for decades. Several ODAs in my last company/battalion had long incorporated it into their team patches (and as late as 2012 when I left for good). I assume they still do. It isn't the exclusive property of the CIFs or the Committee.

If your ODA wants to use it... drive on.

__________________
The moral high ground is sometimes just a head on a long pike...

This is a good thread. Not much said anymore about Blue Light and SOT out at Mott Lake, where it all started.

A/3/5 took over Mott Lake SOT tng from 2/5 in '86 and I was on the .45 committee. My TM actually had the sniper committee, but I got snagged by another TM to be on the .45 committee, I don't remember how that happened, but I didn't argue. Each TM ran a different committee. We ran the .45 range, the wharehouse, linear apparatus and michelin city, probably one or two more I can't remember..

Man, were those fun days....

It transitioned overe to SFARTIC (sp) or something like that late 86 early 87 when a guy from "you know where" came over and they changed the POI. Shortly after that SWC took it over.

ETA: To the OP, I guess you could use it, I doubt it's patented, but is was mostly used by the SOT TMs and by those who went through the tng. I suppose in a CIF Co it would be appropriate...

Before, it was a rotating responsibility amongst the GPs to run if for a yr or two.

II still have my Nouis Defion ceramic coffee mug to this day :) Unfortunetly the T shirts shrank and who knows where they are...

This is a good thread. Not much said anymore about Blue Light and SOT out at Mott Lake, where it all started.

A/3/5 took over Mott Lake SOT tng from 2/5 in '86 and I was on the .45 committee. My TM actually had the sniper committee, but I got snagged by another TM to be on the .45 committee, I don't remember how that happened, but I didn't argue. Each TM ran a different committee. We ran the .45 range, the wharehouse, linear apparatus and michelin city, probably one or two more I can't remember..

Man, were those fun days....

It transitioned over to SFARTIC (sp) or something like that late 86 early 87 when a guy from "you know where" came over and they changed the POI. Shortly after that SWC took it over.

ETA: To the OP, I guess you could use it, I doubt it's patented, but is was mostly used by the SOT TMs and by those who went through the tng. I suppose in a CIF Co it would be appropriate...

Before, it was a rotating responsibility amongst the GPs to run if for a yr or two.

II still have my Nouis Defion ceramic coffee mug to this day :) Unfortunetly the T shirts shrank and who knows where they are...