(14-05-2012 04:11 PM)NoahsFarce Wrote: I've debated on a similar subject before in my Philosophy class. There was another story like this where a child without a brain survived for a week. The debate was on whether or not we consider this to be a human deserving to be kept alive at all costs.

The main point of my argument was that if you're going to compare a baby with only a brain stem (basic motor reflexes) to being "human", then why not consider living organisms such as the tree outside a human?

I offended a lot of people needless to say. But my point was heard and no one had a rebuttal.

I brought up a similar train of thought once on a message board, I asked the "simple" quesiton: What is a human?

Thing is... no one could say what makes a human a human, just that "they know" what a human is. Too many variants of humans exist to list things that apply to all. It's like a built-in human detector (or really a built-in species detector built into all species maybe). We can identify like species.

Now, as stunning as it may seem that modern science has been able to keep this baby alive, I think that there is no use in doing so. From what I've understood, it is unable to see, hear or even think. It doesn't have any self consciousness and will never be able to develop one. It will never have any thoughts, memories or experiences. It would probably be best to let it die as nature intended it do be.

What are your views on this? Discuss!

There are a lot of kids alive today, that have no future, and no potential of even a semi-normal life.
These kids should be aborted, or put out of their misery.

If I remember correctly, in 1993 the famous "baby K" case was addressed by the president's commission of bioethics, which included Dr. Veatch.

I had the luck of hearing Dr. Veatch in early 2000 when I took a one week ethics seminar at Georgetown.

Dr. Veatch talked about the ethical considerations that lead them to agree to continue care on this baby with virtually no brain. Among the considerations was that the insurance was willing to pay (I found that so irritating).

From the NY Times:
The opposite view was expressed by Dr. Robert M. Veatch, director of the Kennedy Institute of Ethics at Georgetown University, who testified for the mother. He said that while he feels that an anencephalic baby should be regarded as brain dead and should not be treated, he took the mother's side on the ground that the decision to continue treatment "is well within the range of parental discretion."

These babies are born without ANY capacity for awareness, thought, identity; they lack a brain above the brainstem, whose function is to regulate organs, but does not contribute to who a person really is. I understand why a parent would look at a shell of a child and see a full child; I do not think that the mother's wishes in this case were reasonable, given the anencephaly. We are keeping alive bodies without brains to appease a parent's unrealistic desire at great cost to society, with zero chance of any level of consciousness or unconsciousness.

In a similar way, I do not feel there is any medical indication for keeping alive the body of a brain dead patient for the sole purpose of keeping it alive. Again, the person is GONE. This is just a body. Allowing natural death is just that; natural. Ongoing agressive care will not bring the sensing, thinking brain back.

Unfortunately cases such as baby K have created the precedent that we must now deal with.

I was fortunate to have three relatively healthy babies. I cannot imagine what it must feel like to have a child with the above-mentioned condition. It must be gut-wrenching to go through as a parent.

When I was younger and hadn't seen as much, I may well have opted to keep the baby alive with machines. Now that I have witnessed what it is to keep a body pumping with wires and tubes, the decision for me would be much simpler...I would have to let the child go.

I have so much respect for people that are able to stand up and meet the challenges of special needs babies/kids...I sincerely don't know if I am cut from the kind of cloth that could do it.

What a rough, rough time. And damn the person that tells them God has a plan.

(14-05-2012 05:10 PM)Debzilla Wrote: Unfortunately cases such as baby K have created the precedent that we must now deal with.

The last I heard, was an estimate, that 4-8 billion dollars per year are spent on chronic dialysis for the brain dead.

I keep on being reminded of different atheist videos, and something I read somewhere about "religious people aren't afraid of death because of religion--they are afraid of death and seek out religion" comment I read.... death should be welcome for the innocent, not kept alive.... I could add more, but I think you all know where I'm going with this, I've seen it said so many times, it doesn't need repeated (in my mind at least).

to bad it wasn't in China this would not be a story. Now this family will have to live with all the pain. What a shame the Dr.s didn't let that baby die.

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson

(14-05-2012 06:20 PM)nach_in Wrote: they should let it die and donate the organs, I don't know if that's even possible for babies so small, but that would make all the suffering have some kind of closure, I guess.

could have used the stem cells

History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden people maintaining a
free civil government. This marks the lowest grade of ignorance, of which their
political as well as religious leaders will always avail themselves for their
own purpose. ~ Thomas Jefferson

(14-05-2012 06:20 PM)nach_in Wrote: they should let it die and donate the organs, I don't know if that's even possible for babies so small, but that would make all the suffering have some kind of closure, I guess.

could have used the stem cells

totally, they should have done anything meaningful, so all the love they had doesn't go to waste, being attached to a bag of meat (that's what I think we are without our minds) is just silly and useless.