Patterson, Dorothye Steele

ORAL HISTORY OF DOROTHYE STEELE PATTERSON
Interviewed by Chris Albrecht
Filmed by Rick Greene
Significant Productions
July 1, 2005
Transcribed by Jordan Reed
MR. GREENE: I went ahead and got room tone.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Good. Ok, everybody ready. Tell us your name and where you were born. We will just kind of warm up with that.
MRS. PATTERSON: My name is Dorothye Steele Patterson and I was born in Auburn, Alabama. September 26, 1936. And my parents are Willie Strickland and Kattie Strickland. We lived in Auburn, Alabama, up until the time my parents came here. And then we lived with my grandparents Emma Lou Threet and Nick Threet. And we lived there until around about I think I graduated from the sixth grade, I think. There was more than just my family living there. There were other grandchildren living there also. So, the grandchildren are really a close knit bunch because my grandmother kept all of us. There were other grandchildren. While the parents were either up here or going on to Virginia. So we went to school together, we, you know, competed together. We had lots of competition going on between the kids.
MR. GREENE: We lost her.
MR. ALBRECHT: How long ago?
MR. GREENE: Just as soon as she stopped talking.
[Microphone noise]
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Let’s…
[Break in video]
MR. GREENE: We have speed.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you were living with your grandparents and your parents were up here working, I assume you were old enough to understand what was going on. How did you feel about, did you know what was going on while they were gone?
MR. GREENE: Hold on.
MR. ALBRECHT: Wait a second.
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, like we were young like my baby sister, she was a baby then. In 1942, she was born. So we had to live with our grandparents and of course we didn’t like being up-rooted to go and stay with our grandparents, but there was nothing we could do about it as little children. We just fell in and we did what we were told to do. We had chores, we did some, we were on a farm and we had to get up in the morning before we go on to school, do your work, come back home after school, you know. We would pick cotton, hold cotton; whatever was necessary to do you did all those things. And of course, we wanted to be with our parents because we didn’t think, also that life would have been much easier and we wouldn’t have had to do all the work that we did. You know, I knew how to cook before I came up here. I knew how to do lots of things. Of course I might not have done them if I had been up here, but I knew all those things when I was a little girl. So when we got here…
MR. ALBRECHT: Hold on a second. We’re picking up all the…
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: The house came to life.
MR. GREENE: We have speed.
MR. ALBRECHT: Okay, I don’t expect you to go back through all that. We will be able to use most of that. You were talking about you would rather be here with your parents. Did you understand that your parents were in a situation where they were able to make more money?
MRS. PATTERSON: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, and they sent money home all the time. They sent whatever we would need, you know. Like for instance when I was getting baptized, my mom sent me a new outfit and a ballerina dress and ballerina shoes. We were taken care off, you know. It still was hard being away from my parents. My daddy I remember once when he was coming from work and my sister, we lived in this house and it had a fireplace. She was standing there and maybe strings were hanging from her dress. A string started burning and she was just in a blaze, you know. My daddy was coming home for lunch, he was riding a bicycle and he saw her running and she ran out of the house and he ran and got her and rolled her over on the ground, you know and everything. She was burned really bad. My grandmother took care of my sister for, it was like she was in pain for like, I can’t remember days and days and days, but my grandmother fixed herbs. She never was taken to a doctor. She fixed herbs and things out of the woods. She took care of her burns because they didn’t take her to a doctor; she was burned really bad you know. But my daddy jumped off that bicycle and started running. He saved her.
We were living like in town. My grandparents were living on a farm about four or five miles from Auburn. So when we had to move from town to the country, so to speak, and we lived on a farm and lived like sharecroppers. They farmed and we had to pick cotton and do all those things. Sometimes got hired out by the day and I would make $1.50 dropping corn and throwing fertilizer, all these things, even as a little girl. We grew up and it wasn’t easy or anything like that, then it makes you a far better person.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now, you were living down there with your grandparents and your folks were up here in Oak Ridge. Talk about did you get to see them very often? And when did you?
MRS. PATTERSON: They would come home to visit and we would get a chance to see them then. In ’47, I believe, they opened up the gates and children were allowed to come. We came up for a visit first. We came up like a vacation and it was just wonderful. And ever since then I wanted to come back. We got a taste of what it would be like to be with our parents so, ever since then we wanted to come back and the chance came when I got a whipping. My grandmother gave me a whipping and I didn’t think that she should have given me that whipping, so I wrote my momma and told her that I wanted to come up there and stay. That we needed to come up there and stay with you all. “I don’t want to stay down here anymore.” I was really mad. I was about sixth grade because I think I came up here after I finished the sixth grade. So, we ended up here in Oak Ridge and we lived in the flattops. There was a recreation center for Black kids and we would go to the community center and have fun, you know, we always have had a community center for Blacks. We had one when we were living in the flattops. And we lived right across from a movie theater, the drive-in movie theater and we could not go in there in a car, but we lived right there where the sign says for the mall, right there on Illinois [Avenue]. We lived in that area and the movie theater was right over where the all-you-can-eat Chinese food, the drive-in theater. So a bunch of us children, the children would go over at night and watch the movie and we could even get a mic, you know, and listen to the sound and everything, you know. But you couldn’t go in a car with your parents or anything like that, because Blacks weren’t allowed in movie theaters, drive-ins, restaurants, anything. Blacks were not allowed to do anything. Go to the swimming pool, skating rink; we were allowed to go to the skating rink once a week, on Sunday nights. But we wanted more than that. We wanted to go into town, we wanted to go. We picketed and everything. They would not let us go. The man closed it down because he said that he would rather close it down than let Blacks in. So he finally just closed it down. So we were going to school at Scarboro. It was different than Alabama. We had a lot of volunteers, white people that were working at the plants and they would come in when they were off and teach class. We had some teachers that were paid, but also a lot of volunteers. I can remember having a class being taught by three different people. I think that was not a good education. You didn’t get what you should have gotten. Things were not as good as say the Oak Ridge High School. Scarboro, I miss Scarboro because of the community thing, you know, everybody knowing everybody. I think that is what is missing from having a school in your community, but I was glad that integration took place. My sister and her husband were two of the first to go to Oak Ridge High School. I graduated in 1955. When the Supreme Court handed down the decision May 17, 1954, we had already started our transition to go to Oak Ridge High School that next year. So I would go to Oak Ridge High School and then some of the white kids would go over to our school and you know try to get ready for the next school year. The last year of Scarboro was 1955 and our principal was Miss Arizona Officer and she was a great principal. She was wonderful. I remember my momma had a baby when I was 16. That really burned me up. I was so mad at her I didn’t speak to her for months. I knew what was going to happen, I was going to have to take care of that child. I had to stay out of school for a little while and Ms. Officer said, “Why aren’t you in school?” and so I told her. She said, “You bring that baby to school.” so I brought the baby to school and we started Scarboro Daycare Center. So, my baby sister, I’m 16 years older than she. She was the only one born in Oak Ridge. The rest of us were born in Auburn, Alabama. So she’s like of the new generation. All of us are two years apart except for her.
MR. ALBRECHT: So when did, at one point, at least during the war, Blacks that went to high school they would bus them clear into Knoxville, to Austin High School, is that not correct?
MRS. PATTERSON: That’s what I heard. See when I started, we started over here at Scarboro. Before I came, some of the children had they I guess had to have their own transportation, I don’t know whether they bussed, or whatever, but they had to go to Austin and I think Vine Junior, I think it was. And also before, Old Scarboro is a building right out here as you go toward the park where they had school out there for elementary kids and I don’t know. The building is still there, I don’t know too much about it, but when I started I started at Scarboro here in 1949.
MR. ALBRECHT: When they started integrating the schools in Oak Ridge what kind of experience was that? Were there a lot of bad feelings, or was there a sense of cooperation? How did that work?
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, of course there were hard feelings and people didn’t particularly like it, but I think that…
MR. ALBRECHT: Stop for a second. I need you to say something about what we’re talking about. About when they started integrating schools.
MRS. PATTERSON: I wasn’t a part of the integration because I finished Scarboro that last year, 1955 and school started in 1956. My sister went to Oak Ridge High School. I did not attend Oak Ridge High School, but we could hear things about how things were. For instance the basketball players, I don’t think they had a girls basketball team then, but they had a boys team. The boys could dress out when they played here in Oak Ridge, but when they went to other schools they couldn’t play because the other schools weren’t integrated. They could not accept the Black players. Things I think, my sister and I were talking about it yesterday. They were kind of in a group by themselves. They weren’t really a part of things. I think they, I told her I think they were also kind of afraid you know, of people coming over, and new people coming in. I don’t think there was a lot of trouble during this period of time, but later when my daughter was going to school, that’s when they had problems then. I think in the beginning it wasn’t as much a problem with the people, but the fear and stuff like that and people being by themselves. They were thrust in there and they really didn’t know what was going on. They weren’t being accepted and stuff like that. She was talking about it yesterday: kids when they were going by somewhere, they’d spit on them. I don’t know anything about that. The first year, we integrated the high school. I don’t think the elementary schools weren’t integrated until years later. I wasn’t a part of it, I can’t just say I was a part of it and I know what was going on. My sister, I tried to get her to come down here this morning, but it’s too early. (Laughter) She said I should have talked to her husband about it. He knows a lot of things that went on that she didn’t.
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: Do you want to wait for Valeria to come back in?
MR. GREENE: Is she coming back?
MR. ALBRECHT: I don’t know.
MRS. PATTERSON: Valeria? Val?
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: So we wanted to talk a little bit, backing up in time when the war ended and they announced that Oak Ridge had produced this atomic bomb. You knew then that your parents had been up here involved in this project, how do you as a young person feel about that at the end of the war and knowing everything all of a sudden.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well first of all, Valeria said I need to correct that school started at Oak Ridge High School for my sister, 1955 instead of 1956. Well, I can remember being excited about it going on and everything, whether they were a part of it. I think that most of all of the Black people that were here did menial jobs. I don’t think they had anything to do with any of the technical things, the actual building. They contributed in their own way, you know. So, we were proud of that fact and everything. I remember like, when war was over, seems like I can see a parade of Roosevelt going down through, toward Tuskegee. They have an (inaudible) for paralysis center down there. I went down there once and they were saying he had been down there because he had paralysis, the president. It was an exciting time to know that they were a part of it you know. And even coming here, you’re proud of this fact that part of the atomic bomb was built here. People outside of Oak Ridge talk about Oak Ridge and say sometimes “Do you glow in the dark?” and that type of thing. I think it was a wonderful thing they were a part of it. Even today the Tennessean and different people write things about Oak Ridge. I think some of them are not true, some of them might be, but I think this is the best place to live in the world even though we might have the radiation and the mercury. I think it’s pretty safe here.
MR. ALBRECHT: Why do you think it’s the best place to live?
MRS. PATTERSON: You know, when we were coming up, we had lots of fun. Kids today don’t have fun. They think there is nothing to do. We had the center to go to and today they don’t care about going to the center, they do all kinds of things that they shouldn’t be doing, but to me it’s a safe place. It’s a small place and everything is convenient. My children grew up around here and I’m happy. I don’t think it’s the environment or whatever that causes things. They grew up and they are two wonderful, productive children. Great.
MR. ALBRECHT: They don’t have three eyes, or two heads, or anything, do they? Don’t even glow in the dark.
MRS. PATTERSON: No.
MR. ALBRECHT: Something when she was talking I thought I want to ask about. I forgot what it was already. I didn’t get it written down. Oh.
MRS. PATTERSON: Another thing, the schools here are some of the best schools. That’s another reason to live here. Oak Ridge schools are one of the best. They went through the system. I don’t go through the system, but they did.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you first came to Oak Ridge, the first time you saw it in 1947, what was it like then? Did they still have the boardwalks and all the mud? Or was it pretty clean?
MRS. PATTERSON: The planks, the boardwalks, yeah when we first came and when we lived in the flattops, we only got the sidewalks and things when we moved over here. They still had the flattops and the planks and everything.
MR. ALBRECHT: And the mud.
MRS. PATTERSON: But it was nicer than what we had been used to. It was wonderful. We had this washing machine, a ringer-type thing. At home we had to carry our water, and then we had to put it in the pots and boil it. Then we had to use the rub board and wash your clothes that way. So when we had a ringer-type here, that was a blessing. It was wonderful. So things were much better up here you know.
MR. ALBRECHT: That’s a great story. I like that. Between Auburn, Alabama, and Oak Ridge, in 1947 is the first time you came up here, then you moved up here in 1949, I believe you said, did you see any difference in the way Blacks were treated at Auburn versus Oak Ridge? Was one place better than another as far as segregation and treatment?
MRS. PATTERSON: Not as far as segregation. Things were the same.
MR. ALBRECHT: Back up and explain that you’re talking about the difference between Auburn and Oak Ridge.
MRS. PATTERSON: In Auburn, you couldn’t eat at different places, use the restrooms, and when we came to Oak Ridge it was the same thing. I thought it would be different because of the government running the place and being in charge, but when we got here, we found out that things were the same. We went to a segregated school in Alabama, and when we came here we went to a segregated school. When we were at the McCrory’s 5 and 10, they would not let us eat at the 10 cent store. You couldn’t eat at any of the restaurants; you couldn’t go to the movies. We went to the movies over in Knoxville at a movie theater called the Jem. That was a Black theater over in Knoxville. And we could go to the theater over in Clinton, Oliver Springs. I think the reason why, I guess because we didn’t have a balcony or whatever, because that is where Blacks sat. You couldn’t sit down on the main floor of the movie theater. So we went to Oliver Springs to the movies. You could not go to the movies here in Oak Ridge. See, as a matter of fact, things were kind of worse because you could go to a movie in Alabama and Mississippi and places like that. You could go sit in the balcony. But here in Oak Ridge you could not go to a movie.
MR. ALBRECHT: That’s interesting. That’s amazing to me. Valeria said something about when you were in high school; did we ever address the fact that you were the valedictorian?
MR. GREENE: Not yet.
MRS. PATTERSON: No.
MR. ALBRECHT: Do you want to get into that?
MRS. PATTERSON: I graduated in 1955 and by the way it was the last class to graduate from Scarboro. We had 17 graduates. The first class was only 3 students and then we moved on up and moved on up. Some of the students and the reason we had a large class was because we had adults who attended night school and they graduated also. So some of the students on the lists of names that graduated were adults and that’s why it was 17 students. But I wrote my graduating speech. I went to the library several times and I had help from my teacher, advising me and everything. I didn’t read the speech. I said it by heart. I just stood up there and said the speech. I learned it you know, word by word. My mom calls it the Moses speech because it starts off talking about Moses, God told Moses to tell Pharaoh to let my people go and I started talking about the spiritual Moses had been sung for many years and now times warrant a new song for America to let my people go. That’s how I started and I talked about the things that had happened in the Army and how they seemed fit to change things in the Army. It’s time now to change things everywhere. So I said my speech back in June, I think it was June, May or June, and it was, seemed to me it was a timeless speech because we were just getting ready to cross over to a new threshold and getting ready to go to Oak Ridge High School in the next school year. I was glad to be chosen and it was a sad time and also a happy time because we missed the community feeling, like when you have PTA meetings and everybody was there. You miss all those things. I knew it was time to integrate.
MR. GREENE: Chris, I’ve got sort of a whacky idea.
MR. ALBRECHT: What’s that?
MR. GREENE: Let’s get her, you’ve got the speech, right?
MRS. PATTERSON: Yeah, I have it.
MR. GREENE: Let’s get some of that. Maybe the beginning or the end. If there is a couple of excerpts from that.
MR. ALBRECHT: Good idea.
MR. GREENE: I know it doesn’t have anything to do with the Manhattan Project, but I just got this idea.
MR. ALBRECHT: He’s the artist. He comes up with some clever ideas and knows what to do with it. I bet you don’t have it memorized any more. (Laughter)
MRS. PATTERSON: No, I don’t. No, I don’t. Can I start with the first part of it and maybe go to…
MR. ALBRECHT: Whatever you think is best.
MRS. PATTERSON: Ok. Let’s see.
MR. GREENE: Just don’t rustle the paper too much while, you can in between.
MRS. PATTERSON: Ok. I’ll try to…
MR. GREENE: You can pick it up if you need to. We can just use the audio even.
MRS. PATTERSON: Alright. “The spiritual…” This is my graduating speech. “The spiritual ‘Go down Moses’ has been sung for many years by members of many races. Many know the story associated with this spiritual and many know the condition that certain people experienced in their efforts to live which gave birth to this spiritual. A familiar line from this spiritual is, ‘Go down Moses, way down in Egypt’s land. Tell ol’ Pharaoh to let my people go.’ Conditions today warrant a new song. This song could be ‘America, let my people in’. You have heard some discussions about integration and how it effects education in the south. The question remains, ‘How long will a segregated society exist with the breakdown of segregation in our public school system?’ Education is one of the most powerful forces in the world. It is quite difficult to realize that a person will receive his education on an equal basis and then continue to be satisfied with the conditions is as they exists in a segregated society. During World War II, our federal government recognized the need for manpower in industry. This serious and growing demand for manpower resulted in the needs of the Army, Navy and Air Force for soldiers, sailors and airmen. Federal Legislation was enacted in the form of a Fair Employment Practice Committee. This committee was designed to aid in industry and selecting industrial workers on the basis of training and qualification, and not race, creed or color. Many industries frown on this commission. So Congressmen finally voted a decreased appropriation resulting in the death of the committee. However, some states have enacted legislation which will provide equal job opportunities for all people irrespective of race, color and creed.
Negros for the most part are desirous of living wholesome and helpful lives. A wholesome helpful climate is made when people irrespective of color are allowed freedom to compete for a job. This freedom to compete for a job increases the mental health of the people with stimulates the people for acceptance of a greater citizenship responsibilities. Many volumes have been written pointing out the differences, delinquencies, the don’t care attitudes on the part of the Negros. These deficiencies resulted from the denial of first class citizenship. Living in an integrated world will tone up and tune up many people who have been depressed as a result of legal segregation. As jobs are open to all people based on qualification and merit, America will produce a healthier and happier children for tomorrow. More and better homes will be built resulting from our integrated way of life. America then becomes a shining example of the world as a country where people irrespective of race are given the opportunity to live healthy and happy lives.” And I go on to say, “The song ‘America the Beautiful’ expresses a thought that is deeply significant at this time and represents a challenge to all Americans,” and I quoted it. I left out this page right here. I didn’t know if you wanted me to read it all.
MR. GREENE: Is that how you ended it? With “America the Beautiful”?
MRS. PATTERSON: “America the Beautiful”, yes.
MR. GREENE: That was sort of you looking at the future.
MRS. PATTERSON: Yeah.
MR. GREENE: What have you seen?
MRS. PATTERSON: What do I think now?
MR. GREENE: Yes.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, I think that it has been proven a lot of the things that I said in this speech have come to fruition. I think that a lot of things have happened. We still have a long way to go, but a lot of things that have happened have been for good. America is the beautiful. It can be better. The struggle still continues, but things have really changed a whole lot since 1955 when I read this speech. I think the South is beginning, now it says here, “… to realize that manpower skills are lost each year to areas where job opportunities are offered. The South if it continues to develop industrially, they must offer jobs to all people of all races.” I think that a lot of things have happened that have changed since 1955 for the best. We’re still not there. Things are still happening, but they are better than they use to be.
MR. GREENE: I think you said it all.
MR. ALBRECHT: I think that was a remarkable speech too, especially for a teenaged girl, or a teenaged person to put together. I thought that was remarkably insightful. Congratulations on being Valedictorian. That’s neat.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, thank you. Thank you.
MR. ALBRECHT: That was a, I’m glad you thought to have her read that. That’s really good.
MRS. PATTERSON: That was not all of it. I left out a whole page.
MR. ALBRECHT: We got the flavor of it there. Certainly.
MRS. PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. ALBRECHT: We’ve covered a lot of ground here. Is there anything else that you feel that you would like to add to what’s been said? Whether it’s about Oak Ridge or your time in Alabama, or…
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, Oak Ridge wasn’t any different from any other place. We had to picket to get things opened up here. We picketed restaurants, washaterias, and the theaters. We would go, like for instance, in couples, we’d take two people and go and test maybe the Holiday Inn and the theaters, to go and see if they would let us in. Things here were the same as everywhere else. When I was young and finished high school, I got on a train and had to sit in the back of the train with a little curtain drawn. My friends and I, we rode all the way to Washington D.C. back in this little, back here in the back of this little train. And then we got in Washington D.C. and we got on the train and we were able to sit anywhere we wanted to sit on the train, you know. And from Knoxville to Washington, you were only able to sit right back in this little bitty place for Black folks. When I went to Connecticut, I went to a ball game and I saw that the players on the team had all Black players. It just kind of blew my mind. Also, we could go to the restaurants and sit down and eat where we wanted to. It was just kind of like a new world was opening up. It was something we hadn’t seen because we couldn’t do those things down here. So when we went, so to speak, north, and saw those things happening, it was something. We hadn’t seen that before. People might of thought we were crazy because we could go and sit down at a 5 and 10 and eat, order your food and everything. We weren’t use to things like that. It was kind of like a shock to our system. Then when we came back, we had to get on the train and ride that same way back. As far as when we rode from Connecticut to Washington, then we got in to Washington D.C. back to Knoxville, we sat in this little place in the back with the little curtain drawn and that’s just the way it was. You know it’s amazing. What I think is why should we have to fight for all things that are rightfully ours. I never liked the idea that we had to fight for it. We shouldn’t have to picket for things that should have been ours in the first place. You know our rights as human beings. We had to get out there and march and picket and do all these things to get something that should have been ours by right. I was kind of like a little angry, but not too angry to participate, because it was non-violent. Once when I was sitting at the restaurant at McCrory’s and we had our books and things, you go in and sit down. There was a white guy sitting over there on one side and he said to another white guy, he said, “How does it feel sitting here beside this nigger?” I didn’t say anything because we’re not suppose to say anything. So this other white guy said, “Well, it feels just fine.” It made me feel so good that he said that. He felt just fine sitting there beside me because we weren’t going to do anything. What was wrong with us just sitting there, you know? It just kind of like makes me a little mad to think about what we had to go through to get to where we are. We had to fight for it. It just didn’t come. They say you can do this; you can come in here and eat. We had to fight for it.
MR. GREENE: We’re at 24 minutes left.
MR. ALBRECHT: Alright let’s switch gears. Let’s get…
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF DOROTHYE STEELE PATTERSON
Interviewed by Chris Albrecht
Filmed by Rick Greene
Significant Productions
July 1, 2005
Transcribed by Jordan Reed
MR. GREENE: I went ahead and got room tone.
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Good. Ok, everybody ready. Tell us your name and where you were born. We will just kind of warm up with that.
MRS. PATTERSON: My name is Dorothye Steele Patterson and I was born in Auburn, Alabama. September 26, 1936. And my parents are Willie Strickland and Kattie Strickland. We lived in Auburn, Alabama, up until the time my parents came here. And then we lived with my grandparents Emma Lou Threet and Nick Threet. And we lived there until around about I think I graduated from the sixth grade, I think. There was more than just my family living there. There were other grandchildren living there also. So, the grandchildren are really a close knit bunch because my grandmother kept all of us. There were other grandchildren. While the parents were either up here or going on to Virginia. So we went to school together, we, you know, competed together. We had lots of competition going on between the kids.
MR. GREENE: We lost her.
MR. ALBRECHT: How long ago?
MR. GREENE: Just as soon as she stopped talking.
[Microphone noise]
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok. Let’s…
[Break in video]
MR. GREENE: We have speed.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you were living with your grandparents and your parents were up here working, I assume you were old enough to understand what was going on. How did you feel about, did you know what was going on while they were gone?
MR. GREENE: Hold on.
MR. ALBRECHT: Wait a second.
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: Ok.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, like we were young like my baby sister, she was a baby then. In 1942, she was born. So we had to live with our grandparents and of course we didn’t like being up-rooted to go and stay with our grandparents, but there was nothing we could do about it as little children. We just fell in and we did what we were told to do. We had chores, we did some, we were on a farm and we had to get up in the morning before we go on to school, do your work, come back home after school, you know. We would pick cotton, hold cotton; whatever was necessary to do you did all those things. And of course, we wanted to be with our parents because we didn’t think, also that life would have been much easier and we wouldn’t have had to do all the work that we did. You know, I knew how to cook before I came up here. I knew how to do lots of things. Of course I might not have done them if I had been up here, but I knew all those things when I was a little girl. So when we got here…
MR. ALBRECHT: Hold on a second. We’re picking up all the…
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: The house came to life.
MR. GREENE: We have speed.
MR. ALBRECHT: Okay, I don’t expect you to go back through all that. We will be able to use most of that. You were talking about you would rather be here with your parents. Did you understand that your parents were in a situation where they were able to make more money?
MRS. PATTERSON: Oh, yes. Oh, yes, and they sent money home all the time. They sent whatever we would need, you know. Like for instance when I was getting baptized, my mom sent me a new outfit and a ballerina dress and ballerina shoes. We were taken care off, you know. It still was hard being away from my parents. My daddy I remember once when he was coming from work and my sister, we lived in this house and it had a fireplace. She was standing there and maybe strings were hanging from her dress. A string started burning and she was just in a blaze, you know. My daddy was coming home for lunch, he was riding a bicycle and he saw her running and she ran out of the house and he ran and got her and rolled her over on the ground, you know and everything. She was burned really bad. My grandmother took care of my sister for, it was like she was in pain for like, I can’t remember days and days and days, but my grandmother fixed herbs. She never was taken to a doctor. She fixed herbs and things out of the woods. She took care of her burns because they didn’t take her to a doctor; she was burned really bad you know. But my daddy jumped off that bicycle and started running. He saved her.
We were living like in town. My grandparents were living on a farm about four or five miles from Auburn. So when we had to move from town to the country, so to speak, and we lived on a farm and lived like sharecroppers. They farmed and we had to pick cotton and do all those things. Sometimes got hired out by the day and I would make $1.50 dropping corn and throwing fertilizer, all these things, even as a little girl. We grew up and it wasn’t easy or anything like that, then it makes you a far better person.
MR. ALBRECHT: Now, you were living down there with your grandparents and your folks were up here in Oak Ridge. Talk about did you get to see them very often? And when did you?
MRS. PATTERSON: They would come home to visit and we would get a chance to see them then. In ’47, I believe, they opened up the gates and children were allowed to come. We came up for a visit first. We came up like a vacation and it was just wonderful. And ever since then I wanted to come back. We got a taste of what it would be like to be with our parents so, ever since then we wanted to come back and the chance came when I got a whipping. My grandmother gave me a whipping and I didn’t think that she should have given me that whipping, so I wrote my momma and told her that I wanted to come up there and stay. That we needed to come up there and stay with you all. “I don’t want to stay down here anymore.” I was really mad. I was about sixth grade because I think I came up here after I finished the sixth grade. So, we ended up here in Oak Ridge and we lived in the flattops. There was a recreation center for Black kids and we would go to the community center and have fun, you know, we always have had a community center for Blacks. We had one when we were living in the flattops. And we lived right across from a movie theater, the drive-in movie theater and we could not go in there in a car, but we lived right there where the sign says for the mall, right there on Illinois [Avenue]. We lived in that area and the movie theater was right over where the all-you-can-eat Chinese food, the drive-in theater. So a bunch of us children, the children would go over at night and watch the movie and we could even get a mic, you know, and listen to the sound and everything, you know. But you couldn’t go in a car with your parents or anything like that, because Blacks weren’t allowed in movie theaters, drive-ins, restaurants, anything. Blacks were not allowed to do anything. Go to the swimming pool, skating rink; we were allowed to go to the skating rink once a week, on Sunday nights. But we wanted more than that. We wanted to go into town, we wanted to go. We picketed and everything. They would not let us go. The man closed it down because he said that he would rather close it down than let Blacks in. So he finally just closed it down. So we were going to school at Scarboro. It was different than Alabama. We had a lot of volunteers, white people that were working at the plants and they would come in when they were off and teach class. We had some teachers that were paid, but also a lot of volunteers. I can remember having a class being taught by three different people. I think that was not a good education. You didn’t get what you should have gotten. Things were not as good as say the Oak Ridge High School. Scarboro, I miss Scarboro because of the community thing, you know, everybody knowing everybody. I think that is what is missing from having a school in your community, but I was glad that integration took place. My sister and her husband were two of the first to go to Oak Ridge High School. I graduated in 1955. When the Supreme Court handed down the decision May 17, 1954, we had already started our transition to go to Oak Ridge High School that next year. So I would go to Oak Ridge High School and then some of the white kids would go over to our school and you know try to get ready for the next school year. The last year of Scarboro was 1955 and our principal was Miss Arizona Officer and she was a great principal. She was wonderful. I remember my momma had a baby when I was 16. That really burned me up. I was so mad at her I didn’t speak to her for months. I knew what was going to happen, I was going to have to take care of that child. I had to stay out of school for a little while and Ms. Officer said, “Why aren’t you in school?” and so I told her. She said, “You bring that baby to school.” so I brought the baby to school and we started Scarboro Daycare Center. So, my baby sister, I’m 16 years older than she. She was the only one born in Oak Ridge. The rest of us were born in Auburn, Alabama. So she’s like of the new generation. All of us are two years apart except for her.
MR. ALBRECHT: So when did, at one point, at least during the war, Blacks that went to high school they would bus them clear into Knoxville, to Austin High School, is that not correct?
MRS. PATTERSON: That’s what I heard. See when I started, we started over here at Scarboro. Before I came, some of the children had they I guess had to have their own transportation, I don’t know whether they bussed, or whatever, but they had to go to Austin and I think Vine Junior, I think it was. And also before, Old Scarboro is a building right out here as you go toward the park where they had school out there for elementary kids and I don’t know. The building is still there, I don’t know too much about it, but when I started I started at Scarboro here in 1949.
MR. ALBRECHT: When they started integrating the schools in Oak Ridge what kind of experience was that? Were there a lot of bad feelings, or was there a sense of cooperation? How did that work?
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, of course there were hard feelings and people didn’t particularly like it, but I think that…
MR. ALBRECHT: Stop for a second. I need you to say something about what we’re talking about. About when they started integrating schools.
MRS. PATTERSON: I wasn’t a part of the integration because I finished Scarboro that last year, 1955 and school started in 1956. My sister went to Oak Ridge High School. I did not attend Oak Ridge High School, but we could hear things about how things were. For instance the basketball players, I don’t think they had a girls basketball team then, but they had a boys team. The boys could dress out when they played here in Oak Ridge, but when they went to other schools they couldn’t play because the other schools weren’t integrated. They could not accept the Black players. Things I think, my sister and I were talking about it yesterday. They were kind of in a group by themselves. They weren’t really a part of things. I think they, I told her I think they were also kind of afraid you know, of people coming over, and new people coming in. I don’t think there was a lot of trouble during this period of time, but later when my daughter was going to school, that’s when they had problems then. I think in the beginning it wasn’t as much a problem with the people, but the fear and stuff like that and people being by themselves. They were thrust in there and they really didn’t know what was going on. They weren’t being accepted and stuff like that. She was talking about it yesterday: kids when they were going by somewhere, they’d spit on them. I don’t know anything about that. The first year, we integrated the high school. I don’t think the elementary schools weren’t integrated until years later. I wasn’t a part of it, I can’t just say I was a part of it and I know what was going on. My sister, I tried to get her to come down here this morning, but it’s too early. (Laughter) She said I should have talked to her husband about it. He knows a lot of things that went on that she didn’t.
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: Do you want to wait for Valeria to come back in?
MR. GREENE: Is she coming back?
MR. ALBRECHT: I don’t know.
MRS. PATTERSON: Valeria? Val?
[Break in video]
MR. ALBRECHT: So we wanted to talk a little bit, backing up in time when the war ended and they announced that Oak Ridge had produced this atomic bomb. You knew then that your parents had been up here involved in this project, how do you as a young person feel about that at the end of the war and knowing everything all of a sudden.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well first of all, Valeria said I need to correct that school started at Oak Ridge High School for my sister, 1955 instead of 1956. Well, I can remember being excited about it going on and everything, whether they were a part of it. I think that most of all of the Black people that were here did menial jobs. I don’t think they had anything to do with any of the technical things, the actual building. They contributed in their own way, you know. So, we were proud of that fact and everything. I remember like, when war was over, seems like I can see a parade of Roosevelt going down through, toward Tuskegee. They have an (inaudible) for paralysis center down there. I went down there once and they were saying he had been down there because he had paralysis, the president. It was an exciting time to know that they were a part of it you know. And even coming here, you’re proud of this fact that part of the atomic bomb was built here. People outside of Oak Ridge talk about Oak Ridge and say sometimes “Do you glow in the dark?” and that type of thing. I think it was a wonderful thing they were a part of it. Even today the Tennessean and different people write things about Oak Ridge. I think some of them are not true, some of them might be, but I think this is the best place to live in the world even though we might have the radiation and the mercury. I think it’s pretty safe here.
MR. ALBRECHT: Why do you think it’s the best place to live?
MRS. PATTERSON: You know, when we were coming up, we had lots of fun. Kids today don’t have fun. They think there is nothing to do. We had the center to go to and today they don’t care about going to the center, they do all kinds of things that they shouldn’t be doing, but to me it’s a safe place. It’s a small place and everything is convenient. My children grew up around here and I’m happy. I don’t think it’s the environment or whatever that causes things. They grew up and they are two wonderful, productive children. Great.
MR. ALBRECHT: They don’t have three eyes, or two heads, or anything, do they? Don’t even glow in the dark.
MRS. PATTERSON: No.
MR. ALBRECHT: Something when she was talking I thought I want to ask about. I forgot what it was already. I didn’t get it written down. Oh.
MRS. PATTERSON: Another thing, the schools here are some of the best schools. That’s another reason to live here. Oak Ridge schools are one of the best. They went through the system. I don’t go through the system, but they did.
MR. ALBRECHT: When you first came to Oak Ridge, the first time you saw it in 1947, what was it like then? Did they still have the boardwalks and all the mud? Or was it pretty clean?
MRS. PATTERSON: The planks, the boardwalks, yeah when we first came and when we lived in the flattops, we only got the sidewalks and things when we moved over here. They still had the flattops and the planks and everything.
MR. ALBRECHT: And the mud.
MRS. PATTERSON: But it was nicer than what we had been used to. It was wonderful. We had this washing machine, a ringer-type thing. At home we had to carry our water, and then we had to put it in the pots and boil it. Then we had to use the rub board and wash your clothes that way. So when we had a ringer-type here, that was a blessing. It was wonderful. So things were much better up here you know.
MR. ALBRECHT: That’s a great story. I like that. Between Auburn, Alabama, and Oak Ridge, in 1947 is the first time you came up here, then you moved up here in 1949, I believe you said, did you see any difference in the way Blacks were treated at Auburn versus Oak Ridge? Was one place better than another as far as segregation and treatment?
MRS. PATTERSON: Not as far as segregation. Things were the same.
MR. ALBRECHT: Back up and explain that you’re talking about the difference between Auburn and Oak Ridge.
MRS. PATTERSON: In Auburn, you couldn’t eat at different places, use the restrooms, and when we came to Oak Ridge it was the same thing. I thought it would be different because of the government running the place and being in charge, but when we got here, we found out that things were the same. We went to a segregated school in Alabama, and when we came here we went to a segregated school. When we were at the McCrory’s 5 and 10, they would not let us eat at the 10 cent store. You couldn’t eat at any of the restaurants; you couldn’t go to the movies. We went to the movies over in Knoxville at a movie theater called the Jem. That was a Black theater over in Knoxville. And we could go to the theater over in Clinton, Oliver Springs. I think the reason why, I guess because we didn’t have a balcony or whatever, because that is where Blacks sat. You couldn’t sit down on the main floor of the movie theater. So we went to Oliver Springs to the movies. You could not go to the movies here in Oak Ridge. See, as a matter of fact, things were kind of worse because you could go to a movie in Alabama and Mississippi and places like that. You could go sit in the balcony. But here in Oak Ridge you could not go to a movie.
MR. ALBRECHT: That’s interesting. That’s amazing to me. Valeria said something about when you were in high school; did we ever address the fact that you were the valedictorian?
MR. GREENE: Not yet.
MRS. PATTERSON: No.
MR. ALBRECHT: Do you want to get into that?
MRS. PATTERSON: I graduated in 1955 and by the way it was the last class to graduate from Scarboro. We had 17 graduates. The first class was only 3 students and then we moved on up and moved on up. Some of the students and the reason we had a large class was because we had adults who attended night school and they graduated also. So some of the students on the lists of names that graduated were adults and that’s why it was 17 students. But I wrote my graduating speech. I went to the library several times and I had help from my teacher, advising me and everything. I didn’t read the speech. I said it by heart. I just stood up there and said the speech. I learned it you know, word by word. My mom calls it the Moses speech because it starts off talking about Moses, God told Moses to tell Pharaoh to let my people go and I started talking about the spiritual Moses had been sung for many years and now times warrant a new song for America to let my people go. That’s how I started and I talked about the things that had happened in the Army and how they seemed fit to change things in the Army. It’s time now to change things everywhere. So I said my speech back in June, I think it was June, May or June, and it was, seemed to me it was a timeless speech because we were just getting ready to cross over to a new threshold and getting ready to go to Oak Ridge High School in the next school year. I was glad to be chosen and it was a sad time and also a happy time because we missed the community feeling, like when you have PTA meetings and everybody was there. You miss all those things. I knew it was time to integrate.
MR. GREENE: Chris, I’ve got sort of a whacky idea.
MR. ALBRECHT: What’s that?
MR. GREENE: Let’s get her, you’ve got the speech, right?
MRS. PATTERSON: Yeah, I have it.
MR. GREENE: Let’s get some of that. Maybe the beginning or the end. If there is a couple of excerpts from that.
MR. ALBRECHT: Good idea.
MR. GREENE: I know it doesn’t have anything to do with the Manhattan Project, but I just got this idea.
MR. ALBRECHT: He’s the artist. He comes up with some clever ideas and knows what to do with it. I bet you don’t have it memorized any more. (Laughter)
MRS. PATTERSON: No, I don’t. No, I don’t. Can I start with the first part of it and maybe go to…
MR. ALBRECHT: Whatever you think is best.
MRS. PATTERSON: Ok. Let’s see.
MR. GREENE: Just don’t rustle the paper too much while, you can in between.
MRS. PATTERSON: Ok. I’ll try to…
MR. GREENE: You can pick it up if you need to. We can just use the audio even.
MRS. PATTERSON: Alright. “The spiritual…” This is my graduating speech. “The spiritual ‘Go down Moses’ has been sung for many years by members of many races. Many know the story associated with this spiritual and many know the condition that certain people experienced in their efforts to live which gave birth to this spiritual. A familiar line from this spiritual is, ‘Go down Moses, way down in Egypt’s land. Tell ol’ Pharaoh to let my people go.’ Conditions today warrant a new song. This song could be ‘America, let my people in’. You have heard some discussions about integration and how it effects education in the south. The question remains, ‘How long will a segregated society exist with the breakdown of segregation in our public school system?’ Education is one of the most powerful forces in the world. It is quite difficult to realize that a person will receive his education on an equal basis and then continue to be satisfied with the conditions is as they exists in a segregated society. During World War II, our federal government recognized the need for manpower in industry. This serious and growing demand for manpower resulted in the needs of the Army, Navy and Air Force for soldiers, sailors and airmen. Federal Legislation was enacted in the form of a Fair Employment Practice Committee. This committee was designed to aid in industry and selecting industrial workers on the basis of training and qualification, and not race, creed or color. Many industries frown on this commission. So Congressmen finally voted a decreased appropriation resulting in the death of the committee. However, some states have enacted legislation which will provide equal job opportunities for all people irrespective of race, color and creed.
Negros for the most part are desirous of living wholesome and helpful lives. A wholesome helpful climate is made when people irrespective of color are allowed freedom to compete for a job. This freedom to compete for a job increases the mental health of the people with stimulates the people for acceptance of a greater citizenship responsibilities. Many volumes have been written pointing out the differences, delinquencies, the don’t care attitudes on the part of the Negros. These deficiencies resulted from the denial of first class citizenship. Living in an integrated world will tone up and tune up many people who have been depressed as a result of legal segregation. As jobs are open to all people based on qualification and merit, America will produce a healthier and happier children for tomorrow. More and better homes will be built resulting from our integrated way of life. America then becomes a shining example of the world as a country where people irrespective of race are given the opportunity to live healthy and happy lives.” And I go on to say, “The song ‘America the Beautiful’ expresses a thought that is deeply significant at this time and represents a challenge to all Americans,” and I quoted it. I left out this page right here. I didn’t know if you wanted me to read it all.
MR. GREENE: Is that how you ended it? With “America the Beautiful”?
MRS. PATTERSON: “America the Beautiful”, yes.
MR. GREENE: That was sort of you looking at the future.
MRS. PATTERSON: Yeah.
MR. GREENE: What have you seen?
MRS. PATTERSON: What do I think now?
MR. GREENE: Yes.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, I think that it has been proven a lot of the things that I said in this speech have come to fruition. I think that a lot of things have happened. We still have a long way to go, but a lot of things that have happened have been for good. America is the beautiful. It can be better. The struggle still continues, but things have really changed a whole lot since 1955 when I read this speech. I think the South is beginning, now it says here, “… to realize that manpower skills are lost each year to areas where job opportunities are offered. The South if it continues to develop industrially, they must offer jobs to all people of all races.” I think that a lot of things have happened that have changed since 1955 for the best. We’re still not there. Things are still happening, but they are better than they use to be.
MR. GREENE: I think you said it all.
MR. ALBRECHT: I think that was a remarkable speech too, especially for a teenaged girl, or a teenaged person to put together. I thought that was remarkably insightful. Congratulations on being Valedictorian. That’s neat.
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, thank you. Thank you.
MR. ALBRECHT: That was a, I’m glad you thought to have her read that. That’s really good.
MRS. PATTERSON: That was not all of it. I left out a whole page.
MR. ALBRECHT: We got the flavor of it there. Certainly.
MRS. PATTERSON: Yes.
MR. ALBRECHT: We’ve covered a lot of ground here. Is there anything else that you feel that you would like to add to what’s been said? Whether it’s about Oak Ridge or your time in Alabama, or…
MRS. PATTERSON: Well, Oak Ridge wasn’t any different from any other place. We had to picket to get things opened up here. We picketed restaurants, washaterias, and the theaters. We would go, like for instance, in couples, we’d take two people and go and test maybe the Holiday Inn and the theaters, to go and see if they would let us in. Things here were the same as everywhere else. When I was young and finished high school, I got on a train and had to sit in the back of the train with a little curtain drawn. My friends and I, we rode all the way to Washington D.C. back in this little, back here in the back of this little train. And then we got in Washington D.C. and we got on the train and we were able to sit anywhere we wanted to sit on the train, you know. And from Knoxville to Washington, you were only able to sit right back in this little bitty place for Black folks. When I went to Connecticut, I went to a ball game and I saw that the players on the team had all Black players. It just kind of blew my mind. Also, we could go to the restaurants and sit down and eat where we wanted to. It was just kind of like a new world was opening up. It was something we hadn’t seen because we couldn’t do those things down here. So when we went, so to speak, north, and saw those things happening, it was something. We hadn’t seen that before. People might of thought we were crazy because we could go and sit down at a 5 and 10 and eat, order your food and everything. We weren’t use to things like that. It was kind of like a shock to our system. Then when we came back, we had to get on the train and ride that same way back. As far as when we rode from Connecticut to Washington, then we got in to Washington D.C. back to Knoxville, we sat in this little place in the back with the little curtain drawn and that’s just the way it was. You know it’s amazing. What I think is why should we have to fight for all things that are rightfully ours. I never liked the idea that we had to fight for it. We shouldn’t have to picket for things that should have been ours in the first place. You know our rights as human beings. We had to get out there and march and picket and do all these things to get something that should have been ours by right. I was kind of like a little angry, but not too angry to participate, because it was non-violent. Once when I was sitting at the restaurant at McCrory’s and we had our books and things, you go in and sit down. There was a white guy sitting over there on one side and he said to another white guy, he said, “How does it feel sitting here beside this nigger?” I didn’t say anything because we’re not suppose to say anything. So this other white guy said, “Well, it feels just fine.” It made me feel so good that he said that. He felt just fine sitting there beside me because we weren’t going to do anything. What was wrong with us just sitting there, you know? It just kind of like makes me a little mad to think about what we had to go through to get to where we are. We had to fight for it. It just didn’t come. They say you can do this; you can come in here and eat. We had to fight for it.
MR. GREENE: We’re at 24 minutes left.
MR. ALBRECHT: Alright let’s switch gears. Let’s get…
[End of Interview]