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You decide… Interrogation or Torture?

You decide… Interrogation or Torture?

With the irresponsible and politically motivated release of the Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on CIA “enhanced” interrogation practices, it’s amazing to see just how many in the media have bought into the “torture” narrative. The details are out there, and the CIA has already undergone a thorough review, but rather than let the American people decide if the information gathered from captured terrorists was interrogation or torture, members of the media have already decided for you.

The Democrat-led Senate Intelligence Committee has worked on their CIA report for years and have pushed for the release of conclusions. Thanks to leftwing Sen. Dianne Feinstein and the cooperation of Barack Obama, the summary report was released to the public, and the media are having a field day. What is so frustrating is that these so-called journalists and commentators seem to forget what happened on September 11, 2001. Just watch the report that aired on Fox News:

Shepard Smith opens his segment by calling the Senate committee’s work a “torture report,” so you know immediately that there is a slant to this story, and it is one that states “the CIA went too far.” Just notice Smith’s face as he cuts to sound bites of Feinstein on the Senate floor talking about some of the findings. Smith is in horror as she talks about arms being chopped off and fingernails being pulled out and acid being poured on prisoners faces.

Oh wait, that’s not what she said at all. In her sound bites, she talks about terrorist prisoners being kept in the dark and being forced to listen to loud music. She talks about them being chained in their cells and only having a bucket to relieve themselves. Horrors!

Smith’s guest, Libertarian Judge Andrew Napolitano, is an eager accomplice in perpetuating the “torture” narrative. He even praises Sen. John McCain (someone who was actually tortured) for speaking out “courageously” about the matter.

Not everyone agrees with liberal Smith’s and other media members’ interpretation of the report, however. In an op-ed appearing in the Wall Street Journal, former CIA leaders voice strong opposition to the conclusions of the Democrat committee. The authors of the op-ed include the following: former CIA Directors George J. Tenet, Porter J. Goss and Michael V. Hayden (a retired Air Force general), and former CIA Deputy Directors John E. McLaughlin, Albert M. Calland (a retired Navy vice admiral) and Stephen R. Kappes.

The Senate Intelligence Committee’s report on Central Intelligence Agency detention and interrogation of terrorists, prepared only by the Democratic majority staff, is a missed opportunity to deliver a serious and balanced study of an important public policy question. The committee has given us instead a one-sided study marred by errors of fact and interpretation–essentially a poorly done and partisan attack on the agency that has done the most to protect America after the 9/11 attacks.

One of the conclusions in the Democrat report is that the CIA’s interrogation techniques were “ineffective in producing intelligence that helped us disrupt, capture, or kill terrorists.” However, the CIA leaders point out some of the results that occurred as a direct result of the interrogations:

* It led to the capture of senior al Qaeda operatives, thereby removing them from the battlefield.

* It led to the disruption of terrorist plots and prevented mass casualty attacks, saving American and Allied lives.

* It added enormously to what we knew about al Qaeda as an organization and therefore informed our approaches on how best to attack, thwart and degrade it.

There is much at these CIA leaders point out, and I encourage all to read the full op-ed. One point in particular in the intelligence gathered that led to the killing of Osama bin Laden.

The majority on the Senate Intelligence Committee further claims that the takedown of bin Laden was not facilitated by information from the interrogation program. They are wrong. There is no doubt that information provided by the totality of detainees in CIA custody, those who were subjected to interrogation and those who were not, was essential to bringing bin Laden to justice. The CIA never would have focused on the individual who turned out to be bin Laden’s personal courier without the detention and interrogation program.

There is no question that information gathered from the CIA interrogations not only led to the killing or capture of senior al Qaeda leaders, but it also led to the thwarting of plots that could have resulted in more innocent American deaths. So, the question is, “Were the CIA ‘enhanced’ interrogation practices actually interrogation or were they torture?”

As the CIA leaders point out in their op-ed, CIA practices were reviewed by the Obama administration:

President Obama ‘s attorney general, Eric Holder , directed an experienced prosecutor, John Durham, to investigate the interrogation program in 2009. Mr. Durham examined whether any unauthorized techniques were used by CIA interrogators, and if so, whether such techniques could constitute violations of U.S. criminal statutes. In a press release, the attorney general said that Mr. Durham “examined any possible CIA involvement with the interrogation and detention of 101 detainees who were alleged to have been in U.S. custody” after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The investigation was concluded in August 2012. It was professional and exhaustive and it determined that no prosecutable offenses were committed.

Do you think what happened to these terrorists was torture or interrogation? If America had prisoners who knew information about planned attacks that could kill thousands of Americans, what techniques should be used to obtain the information? How far is too far? Is keeping someone in a dark room with no sleep and loud music considered torture?

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Make no mistake about it, this whole revelation by Feinstein had nothing to do about “Torture” or American values. It Was all about the values of small band of politically motivated timid people and an ideology of getting even with political opponents, and poisoning the well for political torture of the better people elected to replace them in a House that they through their own negligence, ineptitude and laziness were unable to maintain in a condition that was livable or usable by the American People. She reminds me of the people whose homes get repossessed by the bank who decide to gut the home of all usable appliances and anything of value they can make off with before getting their dishonest and incompetent butts thrown out on to the streets. If they can’t have America, then nobody can. They become spoilers while in office and spoilers after they leave. Feinstein saw the January one Senate clock ticking and had to strike while still having to power despoil, before the thinking CREATIVE men of reason came in replace those who can only despoil and destroy. Torture is creating a workable problem solving government bill that could heal America, only to see it bottled up by Reid in the Senate and then listening to a 24/7 Obama speech edifying media coverage tearing it down. This has payback written all over it. That’s just what we need, more divisive leadership by payback.,,,,NOT.

Its interesting how the Democratic party is so determined to attack our police officers and our CIA agents in order to pander to Leftist fanatics. However when it comes to protecting America and addressing the tragedy of black on black murder rates , the silence is deafening. The terrible truth is that people will die because of this reckless pandering. The hypocrisy is stunning. God save us from these IDIOTS !

Since when old liberal *****, who did not ever seen anything , besides hippies and homosexuals in San Francisco, can judge people sacrificing their lives for our safety. It is typical liberal hypocrisy. They eat file minion and criticize butcher for slaughter of animals. It is horrible that in American society police judged by university professors, who never lived near black neighborhoods and faced black criminals, from whom police defend not only white people, but law abiding blacks also. CIA is judged by liberal bureaucrats, who came from California marijuana paradise, and while enjoying safety of their air conditioned offices, have arrogance and stupidity to interfere with field officers smelling blood, fighting with Islamic monsters, and risking their lives every day.

They’re just getting warmed up as far as vindictive pay back goes. We’ve got two years of this coming at us…while America sleeps and continues to let the muslim dictator and his ilk which includes traitor RINO Boehner rampage and destroy the country. We should be screaming for Boehner step down.Then he can sleep with Bummer on his dime instead of ours–pathetic.

Personally, I think this is a diversion away from Jonathan Grubers incriminating remarks about Obamacare that make the Democrats and american people look like fools!…you do have some good points though!

These Liberal Democrat extremist are not your father’s Democrats whose Testicles clanked when they walked, and in the 1940’s faced and defeated evil. These are modern effeminate old women trapped in a man’s body who can’t tell the difference between actual productive protecting male enhancement, and the productive designed but now unused now party prolapsed female organs that have dropped down and hang out to just get in the way. They do not face evil, just enable and become the face of evil.

“These are modern effeminate old women trapped in a man’s body who can’t tell the difference between actual productive protecting male enhancement, and the productive designed but now unused now party prolapsed female organs that have dropped down and hang out to just get in the way.”

Congratulations inluminatuo. You perfectly described John Boehner. Except you left out the box of tissues.

“Do you think what happened to these terrorists was torture or interrogation?”

If one thinks it is good enough for us to do to them, then we won’t mind when they do it to our sons and daughters. that is the test

“If America had prisoners who knew information …. kill thousands of Americans, what techniques should be used to obtain the information? How far is too far?”

How do you know they have information? That is the problem, it is an assumption. Thinking one knows causes circular reasoning, which is a logical fallacy and is poor thinking, and results in bad intelligence.

A lot like WMD, which got us into the war in the first place. It is the assumption, one thinks they know, which results in getting exactly the answer they wished to find.

What enhanced interrogation techniques do, is finally get someone to say what was wanted to be heard, because no other answer will be accepted

“Is keeping someone in a dark room with no sleep and loud music considered torture?”

Depends, teenagers do it all the time and it drives their parents nuts, but the real question to ask is not whether it is ok or not, but why do individuals think it will work, and if a little pain does wonders, wouldn’t a lot do better?

According to former Soviet gulags prisoner and former Prime Ministers of Israel, Menachem Begin, in his memoir White Nights, to break, deprive control over prisoner’s life, in environment of minimal living conditions, followed by an act of kindness

When thousands and potentially million of American lives hang in the balance, you act,,,you inflict the pain now to save lives, and figure out the moral consequences later. Lives once lost can never be reclaimed. Political positions are a whole other thing. In a war of personal and national survival it is always better to ask for forgiveness than permission. Those who seek to kill you and yours will never worry about a little thing like forgiveness, nor political correctness, they who would do the unforgivable to you first. In war, he who hesitates is lost. This is war, not politics and we Americans love winners.

Looks like the assumption was correct. Oh and WMD didn’t get us into the war in the first place, it was 4 airliners being hijacked and used to murder 3000 innocent people. Far as the issue of WMD is concerned, we were hearing about them all thru the Clinton administration. Matter of fact that intel was what Bush used to justify removing Saddam, and he was supported by both parties in that.

Speaking as a former naval aircrewman, I can tell you I, and I think every other service member I know, would choose these “tortures” over things like having your finger nails pulled off, or being hung by your hands with them tied behind your back, or having fingers chopped off, or having sections of your body burned, or teeth pulled out, or having your body used as a punching bag, or having your skull crushed with rifle butts, or any of the other tortures our enemies have been using for decades.

As for knowing who has information, we know a lot. We know who is talking to who, when they are talking, and can connect those discussions to operations. We also know who the leaders are, and the leaders have plenty of knowledge. We aren’t just grabbing up Joe Sixpacks. The folks who are interrogated are all there for a reason.

As for WMDs, we found the scorched remains of Hussein’s bio weapons. His nuclear program was finally destroyed by the Israelis in Syria, which is right where Iraqi Air Force defectors told us they flew it to, and now ISIS is using the chemical weapons that supposedly, according to the Left, never existed.

@Jota, I understand exactly from whence you’re coming, and I must admit, your comparative criteria is compelling. But, that said, may I ask if you’ve been following the news from Iraq, Syria and Yemen lately? Have you heard about any of the beheadings and the (real)torturing and rapes and barbarous mass executions – all committed by a new and different enemy – one who thrives on and celebrates each unspeakable and hideous assault against humanity. The enemy we face in this war is not informed in the least by your or my interpretations of universal civility or decency! This is a vicious throwback to our primordial origins, not seen in such an existential way since Mohammad swept over the Middle East and proselytized at the edge of a sword. His minions have re-marshalled their bloodthirsty forces and offer no succor to “the infidel” – you and me brother. Your idealistic admonitions sound noble enough, but reality has a tendency to devour the abstract. History is replete with the corpses of the naive and the foolish – those who should never be left to formulate the policies of war for a great and good nation!

So Jota, you go ahead and fail to kill those who seek to kill you, stand by those principles that work only in peace time and only with peace loving people, then die in your own foolish dream reality that if followed my men of reason overcome with EMOTION would kill us all and an entire country. Let me guess, you were born in one of those failed nations that you were forced to flee from because they also lived in their dreams, not in the real world. Your liberties to speak and make a fool of yourself were not won by men who surrendered to their emotions, but who confronted the evil with even more violence that the violence they intended to visit upon US.

They are kidnapping and cutting off the heads of our civilian “sons and daughters” with a knife and publishing it on video. Oh how I wish they would just pour water on them and play loud music then give them bibles and send them to a camp where all of their need are taken care of. You want us to treat religious homicidal maniacs like they are uniformed soldiers of a enemy civilized nation. What we do to them is going to make no difference to how they treat our “sons and daughters”.

I watched one of the videos, and the guy told of how bad the US was before they cut off his head

Which is the whole point of torture, to change your mind, not to read it

After all, if one thinks they get good answers with a little loud noise and sleep deprivation, can they imagine how much more they could find out if they pulled their finger nails off, or cut off heads

It’s probably best that you take your self-aggrandizing attitude and bury your head back in the sand, and let the grown-ups worry about fighting an enemy that would most certainly saw your head off for nothing more than waking in a free country.

You ask if we think the terrorists got good intel by beheading Americans. They were civilians, photographers, aid workers and dogooders. They didn’t have intel. They were simply misguided Americans who had been filled to the brim with the kind of stupidity that you are dispensing here.

“…..why hold back and hide behind terminology?” He said with an erudite smirk! Well Yoda, let me try to ‘splain – since I now realize, after your repetitious ‘oh-so-noble’ pontifications, that you are really not bringing any rationality to the argument – by intent! Terminology is constructed from words, the words form definitions and the factual definitions describe all the differences in the world – to a reasoned individual. “Waterboarding” is NOT, “Drowning”; “Sleep deprivation” is NOT “Amputation”; “Forced loud sound” is NOT “Genital electrfication; “Scarey threats” are NOT “Rape”! Unless, of course, you are so devoid of deductive or inductive reasoning you perceive no distinction among my comparisons; and if so you lose your polemical standing and become nothing more than a silly cliche. One that elicits boredom and intellectual disrespect. I’ll give you a few minutes to change your vestments into a flack jacket – signifying your familiarity with reality!

Torture of Humans is an abomination. These terrorists gave up their humanity when they adopted terrorism as their favorite tactic. Anything done to stop the killing of innocents, and relieve the world of this pestilence is OK with me. It’s not like we’re cutting their heads off!

Yes: Torture is having to Watch what Obama is doing to this once great Nation, and watching the downwards spiral, knowing there is Nothing you can do, What Little bit you try to do is countered with Lawlessness, fraud and obstructions, and knowing there are so many co-conspirators, complacent, and ignorant, being spoon fed by a Media with an agenda, that lies like their boss, And Knowing that we are on a path outlined in the Bible, and knowing what is yet to come!

During my 20 plus years of Active Duty Military Service in the Army and Air Force, we were taught that we were not supposed to be tortured and all we were supposed to give was our Name, Rank, and Serial Number, if captured. During those 20 years, others that were POW’s, found out that Germany, Japan, North Korea, China, North VietNam, and some other Countries would not and did not comply with the Geneva Convention Guidelines. Too damn bad that Feinstein and her Liberal Assed Co-Horts don’t or haven’t read the Rules of the Geneva Convention about what can and should be done during Interrogation of Mad Dog Terrorists. These Terrorists killed kids, women, men, animals, or whatever and it did not matter who or what they were. I approve of what the CIA and others did to get the information needed to stop other attacks and/or devastation of these Mad Dog Lunatics and Feinstein and her Liberal Left Wing Idiots can and should be damned and removed from the United States Federal Government Agencies where they are members. Don’t forget these Animals want to kill all INFIDELS. WE Americans are the FIRST INFIDELS that they will be looking at for execution. Hopefully, Feinstein and her Bunch, including Holder and Obama, will be the first ones on their list. Thank you for your time. TSgt., USAF Retired.

Two items. Like most of my fellow Navy fliers, part of our training was to attend SERE school (ours was in Brunswick, ME). We were stripped naked and had to stand in a frozen pond and snow for hours, we were waterboarded, put in tiny cages and boxes, tied up, beaten, and abused. It was definitely uncomfortable and unpleasant, but not the “extreme pain” definition the UN uses to define torture. If that is torture, then the US does it every single day to our service people.

Second, I am tired of hearing about how McCain was tortured as a POW. By his own account he was not. He wrote a magazine article after his release where he admitted on his second day as a POW he approached his captors and offered to exchange military information for treatment of his leg wounds. He went on to become the North Vietnamese’s star attraction at numerous interviews and statement sessions. It would have been insane for them to torture him as that might have caused him to stop helping them. All of McCain’s injuries were sustained during his ejection from his A-4, not from torture.

Also, note that out of the 600+ POWs who were with McCain at the Hanoi Hilton, only one, Col. Bud Day, ever came out to defend him when stories of his conduct as a POW came up. But what was never reported was in addition to being a fellow POW, Bud Day was also McCain’s property manager, business partner, and later his lawyer. His fortunes were tied to McCains, so he was hardly an honest broker of information.

I first grew suspicious of McCain when he was running against Bush in 2000. He gave an interview to a MD TV station, and he was asked about his time as a POW and enduring torture, and he reacted the same as if they were asking him what he had for lunch. I’ve met a lot of former POWs, and they are all wonderful, nice, guys, until you bring up their time in captivity. Those memories are so horrible they can’t help but bring pain to their faces and anger to their eyes. But not to McCain. He showed absolutely no signs of distress and just went about poo-pooing any discussion of his time as a POW. I was amazed when I saw that as I had never seen a former POW respond that way, and that’s when I started looking further into this guy’s history and couldn’t believe the scam he’s been running about his POW time.

Listening to him yesterday, I think he now honestly believes the lies he’s been telling, or that Bud Day has been telling for him, for decades.

When an individual identifies himself with a group that flies planes into buildings full of civilians, and celebrates when another head is sawn off at the edge of a rusty scimitar, that individual loses his right to be considered a human, and is subject to the whims of his enemy, should he be captured.

I think one of the things lost in this conversation is what’s actually being done. Historically, torture has been done more to punish people than to get information from them. Torturers aren’t blind to the fact that torturing someone who doesn’t know anything yields worthless information. They know that as well as anyone. What they are doing is about inflicting pain and punishment on an enemy.

What the CIA was doing was purposefully designed to get information, not inflict pain or punishment. As we learned at SERE school, these methods are designed to break down a person’s will, to make them feel defeated and hopeless, so they lose a willingness to fight, and give up information, which is what interrogation is all about whether you are on the witness stand in a courtroom or getting waterboarded.

If making one terrorist very very uncomfortable saves the life of one U.S. citizen, then go for it. Waterboarding, chaning in cells, one bucket to excrete in, being in the dark, etc. etc. is not torture. Don’t believe that? Ask John McCain!

Its whatever you want it to be. You must meet fire with fire. These religious fanatics are chopping people’s heads off, and we are concerned about advanced interrogation techniques? Have we gone nuts? This is WAR, and we need to recognize this and conduct ourselves accordingly, obtaining whatever information we need to prevail. This hypocritical administration should be the last group to talk about accountability. What a joke! These lawless idiots are reckless, and consider themselves completely above the law.
This is another Obama attempt to destroy America, creat animosity with our allies, and denuder our intelligence resources. The bottom line is that Obama and his minions are aiding and abetting our enemies, and putting Americans at risk worldwide. Apparently they don’t give a damn, and don’t think that the Republicans will do anything about it except complain verbally, which is what they usually do. This nation is going down fast, led by a radical, Muslim, anti-American president; and a Congress that lacks the political will and courage to oppose his lawless actions. Senator Feinstein should be arrested and charged with treason. God Bless America.

Damn skippy. In WW1 and 2, we were concerned with KILLING and defeating the enemy, how ever possible. Now days we are too concerned about whether the “optics” show us in an unfavorable light, and about winning hearts and minds of those who see us as infidels!

What ever happened to Route the enemy, drive them before us and hear the lamentations of their women!

Jota,
You are correct the term used to refer to this process is “enhanced” rather than advanced. However, in this case there is not much of a difference. Either will produce the desired result, which is critical to gathering the required information. You caught the error, but missed the point. America is not obliged to wear white gloves in the battle with religious fanatics. Only a liberal democrat driven by emotions rather than logic, would even consider another alternative. The rules of engagement are dictated by the actions of our enemy, not by our liberal, pro-islamic president. PC is a very bad strategy to use if you intend to win the WAR against radical Islam.

Most of them probably needed a bath anyway. The water did really hurt them, except for their pride. No one pulled fingernails, put them on the sack or hung them by a stapado, poked them with hot irons or peeled off their flesh, let akone boil them in oil. At the most, they were made to feel uncomfortable. On the other hand, we are well aware of what they do to prisoners, saw off heads or decapitate with a scimitar, hang them slowly from bidges an record the agony.
We are a nation which does not like to be uncomfortable, we put out of our minds the humiliation of Benghazi, people jumping from the World Trade Center, being burned alive, or crushed by the collapse of the floors above them. If being so traumatized by a Grand Jury decision requires postponing final wxams, what will happen if we are seriously attacked in this country by terrorists intent on aniallating us. The Obamas, Feinsteins, etc. have shown they have no backbone as ‘leaders’, it will be up to We The People to reclaim and maintain our citizenship in the Greatest Republic ever created on this Earth!

There are many good replies to Feinstein and her kiss a-s followers. Out of all the replies, this one from joe23006 is right on the mark! The country has turned into a nation of cowards who only know how to LIE and manage to make themselves into “I’m never wrong politicians” The people who vote them into office, show the nation how political correctness just turns out stupid people that can’t think on their own.

As an educated legal immigrant to this wonderful country I can not believe, that AMERICANS EVEN TAKE BLAME for sins they have in smaller quantities, than any country in the world. Poor Americans still suffering for sin of slavery. Actually only Americans destroyed the slavery while the WHOLE world was enslaved. Russia abolished slavery by Tsaar’s decree in 1861 and returned to it after revolution to be a slave camp until fall of the Soviet Union. Half of the Muslim countries sell slaves TODAY, especially Black Slaves. Women sold as livestock in every Muslim country today.
The same with torture. NO ONE COUNTRY IN THE WORLD would publish this kind of report, because they ALL torture enemies and this EVEN NOT CONSIDERED TO BE any human right abuse, because they do not have idea what human rights is.

I served in the USMC for thirty years and had enough combat to know that extreme measures may be required to use on the enemy to obtain essential information to save American lives. War is not pretty and drastic interrogation measures are necessary. I never saw any but heard many loud screams from the 5th Special Forces compound in An Hoa and hope they got what they needed.

The problem with the civilian population is they only know one existence; a world of relative peace and tranquility; obeying the laws of society. What they will never understand is the world of combat; the world of war.

They attempt to judge war time activities that occur in the theater of battle against their laws of the land, and it doesn’t work.

The military (and the CIA), is not paid to negotiate and play nice with the enemy; we were expected to be the point of the spear when diplomacy failed. And because military personnel are expensive to train and maintain, we were expected to WIN, at all costs.

We expect our protectors to covertly glean information to achieve the goal of safety for those who cannot protect themselves against an enemy full of hate and rage.

What frustrates me is all the namby pamby mostly Liberal Democrats who have no friggin idea what real torure is. This Nam Vet knows what real torture is and nothing America has done even comes close to torture!

Great timing, this Senate report on torture comes out the same day Gruber is being questioned about his dealing with Oblammie Care, it’s called a mis-direction, used by con men in pulling off their deed…

If the approved enhanced interrogation practices are to be considered torture, then Capital Punishment must be ended and plea bargaining must also be ended. Using the death penalty is a form a torture. Plea bargaining is a form a torture. Can’t twist someone’s arm or you will be accused of torture. How about use of handcuffs, definitely a form of torture and most of the time it assumes you are guilty before any legal process has been initiated, let alone been completed.

What a choice! Enhanced interrogation or beheading?
How many of those that we have encouraged to talk have died?
What do you call it when our enemies drag American bodies through the streets. burn them in an pyre, chop off their heads or worse?

hmmm, I guess telling them they had to sit in time out until they were ready to tell us everything and play nicely with others didn’t work?

I get so tired of the libs acting as though that would work. As many have said in these comments, most people don’t understand that war is different. But for the life of me, I don’t know why. How can anyone really think that these things can be handled over tea???

All the bleeding hearts should get a grip and stop claiming violation of the Geneva Convention. It applies only to “regulars in the military service of a nation-state.” Terrorists are not regulars. They are classified as irregulars,subject to being shot when captured.

The real aim of this report is the 2016 presidential election. We are already seeing the DOJ stating that they will investigate and procecute people involved in the inhanced interrogations. I would be willing to bet that the “trial” will be about 9 months before the election and you will see the liberal media hanging all over it.
What is amusing is that every member of congress was briefed on the methods used and gave them a pass. That includes Feinstein.

I think it’s more simple than that. Feinstein has to get one more tantrum in before they take her soap box away. Bye Diane, I used to “kind of” respect you, though not your politics. Not so much anymore. If anyone is killed or hurt as a result of your hissy-fit, it’s all on your head!