MR. DAVID GREGORY: This Sunday, the hole has finally been plugged in the gulf, but is it really mission accomplished? How much oil was spilled? Is the environmental crisis over? How will BP be held accountable? Plus, where do we go from here on energy policy and oil drilling? I'll ask the president's top environmental and energy adviser, Carol Browner.

Then a one-on-one conversation with the man who hopes to be the next speaker of the House, GOP leader, Congressman John Boehner. What would the Republicans do to get people back to work and cut government spending?

Finally, our political roundtable weighs in on the long, hot political summer for the president--ethics scandals, jobs, gay marriage, the war in Afghanistan, and the choice in November.

(Videotape)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA: When you want to forward, what, what, what do you put the car in? D. When you want to go backwards, what do you do? You put it in R.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: With us, former congressman from Tennessee and the author of the new book "More Davids than Goliaths," Democrat Harold Ford; congressman from Indiana and the chairman from the House Republican Conference, Mike Pence; Vanity Fair's national editor Todd Purdum; and NBC's Andrea Mitchell.

Announcer: From NBC News in Washington, MEET THE PRESS with David Gregory.

MR. GREGORY: Good morning.

MR. DAVID GREGORY: It has been 111 days since the explosion of the Deepwater Horizon oil rig in the Gulf of Mexico. The leak has been plugged, but there are many questions that remain. Here with us now, live this morning in an exclusive interview, the president's top
environmental and energy adviser, Carol Browner.

MR. GREGORY: The split-screen, the before and after, is striking, and we'll put it up on the screen now. When the oil was gushing, this is what it looked like on the left, and now it has been plugged, on the right. The headline in The Times-Picayune down in New Orleans really
begs the question, "End in Sight as Cement Pumped into [the] Rogue Well." Is the crisis over?

MS. BROWNER: Well, I think the first phase is over in that the well is not leaking, it has not leaked since July 15th. Obviously the relief well still has to be finished. That's probably another 10 to 14 days away. But then we have to stay focused on making sure the beaches are clean, the environmental damage is restored, and cleaned up. And, that BP is held accountable. So we see this as a phase, but not the end by any means.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let's go through some of those, then, in turn because they are all important. The question of how much oil is left is one that you have been asked. You were on the "Today" program on Wednesday, and this is what you said. Because there's skepticism about some of it.

(Videotape, Wednesday)

MS. BROWNER: I think it's also important to note that our scientists have done an initial assessment and more than three-quarters of the oil is gone, the vast majority of the oil is gone.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Three-quarters of the oil is gone. Again, there are some who are casting doubt about that, the claim that you have made. Let's look at--the National Incident Command has put together a graphic of where the oil is--and if you put it on the screen--residual, 26;
evaporated or dissolved, 25 percent; 24 percent using dispersant. So it's dispersed, and that becomes important--burned, skimmed, direct recovery. So you have roughly 50 percent there that is still residual or has maybe broken apart.

This is how The Washington Post reported on it on Thursday under the headline, "Scientists Question the Report of Shrinking Spill."

"Some outside researchers said that, given the uncertainty about what's happening in the gulf, the administration's assertion that 74 percent of the oil had been accounted for seemed too optimistic. They saw it another way: About half of the oil is probably gone for certain:
skimmed, burned, siphoned or evaporated. They said the other half, including the 24 percent that's been `dispersed' but is underwater, is the real total of what's missing. Despite the largest oil-spill response in history, these 2.5 million barrels of oil will be cleaned up by the
Gulf of Mexico, if at all. The situation is `being portrayed as "the oil is out of the environment; it's gone,"' said Michael Blum, professor at Tulane University in New Orleans. But, he said, all that's certain is that `the form of the oil has shifted. Dispersed oil is still oil. It's
just in a different form.'"

MS. BROWNER: Well, I think it's important to understand that this was the largest response to an environmental disaster. We had over 6,000 vessels, more than 40,000 people, and the goal was to keep the oil off the beaches and out of the marshes and the estuaries. Now, some of it
did get on the beaches, some of it got into the estuaries. That has to be cleaned up. Some of it may continue to come on shore, the residual. It'll come on in tar balls and tar mats, and that can be cleaned up. But I think, you know, there was the skimming, there was the burning, there was the containing, it was very successful. Some of it is continuing to
break down naturally in the environment--we're talking about molecules the size of a piece of hair--and we're going to continue to monitor that. The EPA has been monitoring, NOAA is monitoring, the Food and Drug Administration is looking at the fish; and, right now, nobody's seeing anything of concern. And I think the good news--and I was just down in the gulf. I was in Florida on Thursday and Friday. The good news is we're not seeing huge amounts of oil on our beaches and in our marshes.

MR. GREGORY: But you acknowledge that 50 percent of that oil could still be in the gulf in some form. We're far from being out of the woods of this. I mean, you talk about on the order of maybe, what, 100 million gallons? This is many orders of magnitude larger than the Exxon Valdez spill in terms of the sheer amount of oil that's still in there, correct?

MS. BROWNER: Well, the--this is 18 times bigger than the Exxon Valdez, when you look at the total amount that spilled. But, again, it's been captured, it's been contained, it's been burned. I mean, this was a massive response. I mean, if you look at what was accomplished in terms
of the beaches...

MR. GREGORY: But the question, Ms. Browner, is, what the impact is of the remaining oil. If--you're saying, "Look, most of it's gone, essentially. Don't worry about it." The scientists are saying, "We, we don't know if we can not worry about it just yet."

MS. BROWNER: No one's saying don't worry. What we're saying is, right now, the tests show nothing of concern. We're going to continue to test. We're not going away. We're going to continue to work with the Gulf Coast communities to make sure their economic losses are honored, to get the fisheries reopened when appropriate. Later today, the president's
birthday party, he's going to be serving his guests seafood from the Gulf of Mexico. You know, we want to make sure that these communities are restored and that they're made whole and that the environment is made whole. There's still a lot of work to do.

MR. GREGORY: Well, here's what you said in terms of the environmental impacts--impact. Back in May, when you were last on MEET THE PRESS, I asked you about that. This is what you said.

(Videotape, May 30, 2010)

MS. BROWNER: This is probably the biggest environmental disaster we've ever faced in this country.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: Does that still stand? And what does that mean specifically?

MS. BROWNER: We had almost five million barrels of oil leak. We've never seen anything like it before. The idea that, you know, if you went down to the gulf--and I know you have--and asked people what they thought, they would absolutely agree this is the largest environmental
disaster. And we responded accordingly, and we've been successful in removing a lot of the oil. We're going to remain vigilant. We've got to hold BP accountable for the claims, for the damages to the environment.

MS. BROWNER: Well, we, we know that we had oil up in some of the sensitive marshes and the estuaries. That can be cleaned to some degree. Some of the oil will have to dissipate naturally. We need to monitor those estuaries to ensure the health of those estuaries, of the
fisheries. While we've reopened some, some remain closed. I mean, it--you can't put this much oil out there and not be concerned; and that's how we responded, with a great deal of concern.

MR. GREGORY: Let's talk about BP's accountability. How many barrels of oil were spilled?

MS. BROWNER: The estimates are 4.9 million barrels. And that--those estimates are based on pressure tests that we were able to do when the new top hat was put on.

MR. GREGORY: BP doesn't commit to that figure, do they?

MS. BROWNER: I think BP has been silent, but that doesn't matter. We...

MS. BROWNER: Our scientists feel very confident in the answer. I mean, again, we started with just satellite photos, then we were able to get the, you know, the ROV photos, and then, ultimately, the pressure tests. And it's based on those pressure tests that this number has been put forward.

MR. GREGORY: Will the government pursue criminal negligence claims against BP to make that financial penalty as high as it can be?

MS. BROWNER: I'm not going to comment on the Department of Justice investigation. As you know, they have a large investigation under way. I will say this, BP will be held absolutely accountable.

MR. GREGORY: To the, to the full extent of the law.

MS. BROWNER: Absolutely.

MR. GREGORY: Because you're suggesting here, by everything you're saying, that they were, indeed, negligent and that there should be a large financial penalty.

MS. BROWNER: Well, there will be a large financial penalty. There'll also be a natural resource damages claims. They will be responsible for paying to clean up the natural resource damages. There's three ways in which they're held accountable. One, for the economic losses, and there we were able to negotiate a $20 billion fund, and in the coming days, Mr.
Feinberg will launch that fund. Secondly are the penalties, which will be significant. And finally, the natural resource damages, which they will have to pay for.

MR. GREGORY: How much of the penalty dollars should be returned directly to the Gulf Coast?

MS. BROWNER: Well, under the current law, it goes to the Treasury.

MR. GREGORY: Right.

MS. BROWNER: We think it should be returned to the Gulf Coast,
obviously.

MR. GREGORY: How much? Eighty percent? As you know, that's what Gulf states senators want.

MS. BROWNER: I think that makes a lot of sense.

MR. GREGORY: So 80 percent is a reasonable figure. Does the president commit himself to that?

MS. BROWNER: Well, we're going to have to work with Congress, you know. Congress has not been forthcoming in terms of passing a--the oil spill legislation. The House did, but the Senate didn't. We're going to have to work with them to make sure that the Gulf Coast communities see the benefits of this money.

MR. GREGORY: So--but the president, at least, supports the notion of majority of this penalty money being returned to the region.

MS. BROWNER: He absolutely supports the notion of returning it to the
region.

MR. GREGORY: Let me ask you about the moratorium. The president, in his address to the nation, imposed the moratorium, said it was the right thing to do. Now there is some talk that it might be lifted early. Is that possible?

MS. BROWNER: Well, the...

MR. GREGORY: Now this is, I should say, a moratorium on deepwater
drilling...

MS. BROWNER: Right.

MR. GREGORY: ...in the gulf, 33 deepwater rigs in the gulf currently.

MS. BROWNER: So it's important to understand what the president has said. He said three things. First of all, we have to understand what happened so we can make sure that all the safety measures are in place so it doesn't happen again. Secondly, in the worst case scenario, if we did have another leak, we have to be able to contain it. Now, we've learned a lot about how to contain it, and some of the other oil companies have come forth and said perhaps we should pre-stage the containment equipment. We think that makes a lot of sense. And then finally, we have to be able to clean it up. We've learned a lot about how you clean
it up. We've learned, "How does the burning work, how does the skimming work, how does the booming work?" You know, if we're able to answer those questions, then this pause in drilling can be lifted. But until we answer those questions, we need to make sure that we keep the Gulf Coast community safe.

MR. GREGORY: So what are the chances it gets lifted early?

MS. BROWNER: You know, I don't want to speculate on that. The work is being done, the analysis is being done. Michael Bromwich is at the Department of Interior doing his job. You know, I'm going to let them do their job, and if it's appropriate, it'll be lifted.

MR. GREGORY: Are you not satisfied with the answers that you're getting so far to those questions about safety?

MS. BROWNER: It's just that it's a very rigorous review that's under way, and, you know, they're in the middle of the review, so I just don't want to speculate. We, we understand the importance of these jobs, but we also understand the importance of protecting the Gulf Coast and the communities.

MR. GREGORY: You talk about all the work here being done for safety. Did the White House do any economic analysis about what a moratorium--what impact it would have on jobs in the Gulf Coast?

MS. BROWNER: There is, there is an economic analysis being done. It'll be ready later...

MR. GREGORY: But it was never done before the moratorium was put in place? Because those who are down there say, "You know what, the moratorium by the Obama administration is far worse than the spill itself."

MS. BROWNER: Here's what we knew the minute the accident happened: that if there was another accident of equal size, we didn't have the equipment to respond. All the boats, all the resources were being used. We had a close--over 6,000 vessels, we embedded private citizens into this effort. It was a massive undertaking, and if another accident were to occur, we would not have had the ability to respond. And, you know, that formed a basis for putting a pause on drilling while we looked at the safety, while we looked at how we would contain it, ultimately, and then clean it up.

MR. GREGORY: Final question here. The president said, in his address to the nation, this, about climate change legislation.

(Videotape, June 15, 2010)

PRES. OBAMA: The tragedy unfolding on our coast is the most painful and powerful reminder yet that the time to embrace a clean energy future is now. ... The one approach I will not accept is inaction. The one answer I will not settle for is the idea that this challenge is somehow too big and too difficult to meet.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: He said he won't settle for inaction, and yet, there is
inaction.

MS. BROWNER: Right.

MR. GREGORY: Is it failure?

MS. BROWNER: We're deeply disappointed that we were not able to get clean energy legislation. There's a tremendous opportunity for our country to lead the global clean energy revolution. But that requires us to put in place the, the right laws, the right signals so that we build the wind turbines here, we build the solar panels, then we can ship them to China. We're in danger of losing out.

MR. GREGORY: I understand the arguments. The president drew a line in the sand there. Is he conceding defeat on this?

MS. BROWNER: Not yet. The Congress is coming back. We will continue to see if we can get legislation. We passed it in the House. We'll continue to work in the Senate.

MR. GREGORY: Lame duck session, they could do it potentially there.

MS. BROWNER: Potentially.

MR. GREGORY: All right, we'll, we'll be watching. Carol Browner, thank you very much as always.

MS. BROWNER: Thank you.

MR. DAVID GREGORY: We turn now to the man trying to lead his party to victory this November, House Republican Leader John Boehner of Ohio. He joins us this morning from Cincinnati.

Leader Boehner, welcome back to MEET THE PRESS.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH): David, good morning.

MR. GREGORY: I want to continue on the, the Gulf Coast spill as we near completion of this, and you've heard Carol Browner's comments. I want to pick up on holding BP accountable. Do you think the government should pursue criminal negligence claims against BP?

REP. BOEHNER: I think the government should do everything they possibly can to, to bring this crisis to an end; and that means going after BP, enforcing the laws that are on the books, and restoring the gulf to its original condition. I think BP has stepped forward in terms of the money that they've put forward so far. But there is the law, and they should be held accountable.

MR. GREGORY: The question, however, also extends to, in terms of revitalizing the Gulf Coast, this issue of the moratorium on deepwater drilling. You heard Carol Browner concede the White House didn't do an economic analysis about what it would do to jobs and to the industries
along the Gulf Coast. Should that moratorium be lifted by this point?

REP. BOEHNER: I believe the moratorium should be lifted. We've been drilling in the Gulf Coast now for 60 years. There are 40,000 wells operating in the Gulf Coast. There clearly was a mistake made with regard to this one well, but I think that we're risking 100,000 jobs in the Gulf Coast with the continuation of this moratorium, and I do believe that, that there are enough practices in place, enough safety precautions in place to allow this drilling to continue. Because if we're serious about moving toward energy independence, we need to do all of the above, which includes exploration for more oil and gas in the United States of America.

MR. GREGORY: There seems to be some bipartisan agreement about this point: When it comes to the gulf oil spill and in terms of the, the permits being issued, there was a failure of regulation. When it comes to the Wall Street collapse, the financial system collapse, a failure of regulation. And yet, you said something in July that caught my attention about a moratorium on regulations. You said, "I think having a moratorium on new federal regulations is a great idea. It sends a wonderful signal to the private sector that they're going to have some
breathing room." Do you think that's what the private sector needs right now, is breathing room?

REP. BOEHNER: I do think the private sector needs some breathing room. When you look at all of the, the uncertainty that's being created by the Democrats' agenda, they've got every employer in America, every investor in America scared to death, and they're frozen. When you look at what happened on Wall Street, when you look at what happened in the gulf, it
wasn't that we didn't have enough regulations; what, what we didn't have was enough enforcement by the federal bureaucrats in charge of pursuing these things.

The SEC could have done a lot more with regard to the financial meltdown, except they didn't. It's pretty clear that those bureaucrats charged with inspecting these wells didn't do their job. And so it's not more regulations. How about we enforce the ones we have now?

MR. GREGORY: Let me talk about, on the subject of regulations and the broader economy, the job numbers that came out Friday were disappointing. The private sector job growth is anemic at best, and yet the president says he is not fearful of a so-called "double-dip" recession. What do you say?

REP. BOEHNER: Well, I'm concerned about the state of the economy. It's pretty clear that over the last three months the economy has paused. And it's also pretty clear the American people are still demanding and asking the question, "Where are the jobs?" And the reason we don't have new jobs is because of the job-killing agenda pursued by President Obama and his
allies in the Congress. They really do, they have employers scared to death. I've been all over my district over the last several days. I was in a couple of my neighboring states. I talked to a lot of employers who just are, are fearful of what's coming next out of Washington. It's all
the spending, it's all the debt. It's their national energy tax, they ant to call it cap and trade--more mandates, higher costs, more taxes. heir healthcare bill--more mandates, higher costs, higher taxes. And if ll that did--isn't bad enough, they want to raise the taxes on the
American people.

MR. GREGORY: Well, let's...

REP. BOEHNER: It's no wonder that employers are frozen.

MR. GREGORY: Let's talk about it. It's interesting, you talk about the mportance of cutting the debt, the importance of cutting government pending, and you worry about the Democrats raising taxes. The Bush--the bama administration wants to extend the Bush tax cuts only for those who ake less than $250,000, and he wants to let them expire for those
wealthy Americans making more than that. You're opposed to that. You ant to extend the tax cuts, and the Republican leadership does. But lan Greenspan, who was on this program last week, chairman of the Federal Reserve, said that's the wrong idea. Here's what he said.

DR. ALAN GREENSPAN: Look, I'm very much in favor of tax cuts, but not with borrowed money. And the problem that we've gotten into in recent years is spending programs with borrowed money, tax cuts with borrowed money, and at the end of the day that proves disastrous. And my view is I don't think we can play subtle policy here.

REP. BOEHNER: The only way we're going to get our economy going again and solve our budget problems is to get the economy moving, get more people back to work where they can care for their own families, and begin to expand the tax rolls to bring more revenue to the federal government. And what we have to do is we have to get our arms around the spending
spree that's going on in Washington, D.C.

MR. GREGORY: But Leader Boehner...

REP. BOEHNER: That's the only way we solve the budget problems.

MR. GREGORY: ...I'm sorry, you're--that--you're not, you're not being responsive to a specific point, which is how can you be for cutting the deficit and also cutting taxes, as well, when they're not paid for?

REP. BOEHNER: Listen, you can't raise taxes in the middle of a weak economy without risking the double-dip in this recession. President Obama's favorite Republican economist, Mark Zandi, came out several weeks ago and made it clear that raising taxes at this point in, in the economy is a very bad idea.

REP. BOEHNER: I am not for raising taxes on the American people in a soft economy.

MR. GREGORY: That's not the question, Leader Boehner. The question...

REP. BOEHNER: And the people that the president wants to tax...

MR. GREGORY: ...is, are tax cuts paid for or not?

REP. BOEHNER: Listen, what you're trying to do is get into this Washington game and their funny accounting over there. You cannot get the economy going again by raising taxes on those people who we expect to create jobs in America and to get the economy going again. If we want to solve the budget problem, we've got to have a healthy economy and we have to get our arms around the runaway spending that's going on in Washington, D.C.

MR. GREGORY: I just want to clarify this. I mean, if you--I'm relying on what Chairman Greenspan said. Maybe--if you're accusing him of funny Washington games. He says that tax cuts that aren't paid for are not--they are not cutting the deficit, that they are not actually paid for, it's borrowed money. And so do you believe tax cuts pay for themselves or not?

REP. BOEHNER: I do believe that we've got to get more money in the hands of small businesses and American families to get our economy going again, and the only way to get that economy going again is to do that and to get our arms around the spending.

MR. GREGORY: All right. One of the ways you talk about getting your arms around the spending was something you suggested back in June, and that is that Social Security, the retirement age, ought to be raised to the age of 70. Is that something that the GOP will campaign on in the fall?

REP. BOEHNER: David, I think it's time for the American people to have an adult conversation about the problems that we face. These entitlement programs serve tens of millions of Americans, and they're critically important. But we also know that these programs are, are unsustainable in their current form. And I really do think it's time that we sit down
and we talk to the American people together about how we solve them. And I think we need to bring Democrats and Republicans together in order to solve this problem.

REP. BOEHNER: David, there are a lot of options about how you solve this, but I don't want to get the cart before the horse. I think it's important to have this conversation. It's going to be a difficult conversation, but it's time to have it and it's time to come up with some
solutions that are done in a bipartisan way to help address these problems.

MR. GREGORY: Let me talk about the, the midterm race. Several months ago, back in March, you thought it would be a steep climb for Republicans to retake the House. What do you say today?

REP. BOEHNER: I continue to believe that it is a challenge for us to take back the House. But we've got candidates, more candidates than we've ever had. We have 430 districts with one or more Republican candidates in the race. We have the--better candidates than we ever had. But we want to earn back the majority in order to renew our effort to go
after a smaller, less costly, and more accountable federal government in Washington, D.C.

MR. GREGORY: But you still think it's a challenge. It was interesting. The president's press secretary, Robert Gibbs, as you know, said on this program that he thought it was possible that Republicans could take over the House. He, he now believes that's not the case. That caused quite a stir. What impact do you think that had? And yet, it hasn't changed your view about the challenges that Republicans face.

REP. BOEHNER: Well, David, listen, it's only August. There are a lot of things that can happen between now and Election Day. Is it possible? Yes, it certainly is possible. There are a hundred seats in play around the country, and 94 of them are held by Democrat members. I've, I've been all over my district, I've been through a lot of other districts.
The American people are screaming at the top of their lungs to Washington, "Stop! Stop the spending, stop the job-killing policies." And yet, Democrats in Washington refuse to listen to the American people. Republicans have been listening all summer with our program America
Speaking Out.

MR. GREGORY: Well...

REP. BOEHNER: We're listening.

MR. GREGORY: ...you, you...

REP. BOEHNER: We're going to come forward with our, with our agenda right after Labor Day.

MR. GREGORY: Right after Labor Day. Why wait until then? Why not do it now?

REP. BOEHNER: I think it's important that we listen to the American people. It's not about what I think, it's about what the American people think. And at americaspeakingout.com, hundreds of thousands of people have given us ideas about what Washington should be doing. People have voted on other people's ideas. And if people want to go to americaspeakingout.com, they can participate in this. And out of this listening, we will have a governing agenda to, to get this country...

MR. GREGORY: All right. But Leader Boehner...

REP. BOEHNER: ...this country back on track.

MR. GREGORY: Leader Boehner, you--but you are certainly campaigning to be the next speaker. As a matter of fact, you can go on boehnerforspeaker.org and order a mug, among other items, to support that effort. And yet, the president of the United States is going to
fundraisers around the country and slamming Republicans. This is one of the things that he says:

(Videotape, Monday)

PRES. OBAMA: They have not come up with a single, solitary new idea to address the challenges of the American people. They don't have a single idea that's different from George Bush's ideas. Not one.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: What do you say to that?

REP. BOEHNER: When I handed Nancy Pelosi the gavel 18 months ago, I said that if Republicans had to oppose our Democrat colleagues or our new president, it was our obligation to tell the American people how we would do it differently. Every time we've opposed our Democratic colleagues, we've offered what we thought was a better solution. Each and every
time. And when we roll out our agenda, we're going to roll out our solutions to solve the problem of the joblessness in America to get Americans back to work, and how we would control spending.

MR. GREGORY: Do you want--will you offer specific spending cuts to offset the money that's lost by extending tax cuts?

REP. BOEHNER: Listen, we've offered all kinds of spending cuts. As a matter of fact, Paul Ryan and Jeb Hensarling, two leaders on our budget committee, have offered $1.3 trillion worth of spending cuts. We've offered these to the president, asked the president to send recisions to the Congress, and we offered to work with him to enact those recisions.
Why don't we stop the stimulus spending? There's still about $400 billion or $500 billion of the stimulus plan that has not been spent. Why don't we stop it. It's not working. Secondly, why don't we make sure that we get all the TARP funds back and use it to pay down the
deficit. Why don't we put a cap on discretionary spending at much lower levels than what we have today. It's time to stop the spending spree in Washington, D.C.

MR. GREGORY: The president, of course, has called for a cap on discretionary spending.

REP. BOEHNER: I'm talking about a real cap, like at 2008 levels, not at 2010 levels.

MR. GREGORY: All right. Let me ask you about a couple of other topics, including the ethics scandal surrounding Congressman Charlie Rangel. There's news out this morning that there was a deal that was being discussed and that it was Republicans who stood in the way. They wanted a trial. Is that accurate?

REP. BOEHNER: I would have no idea. Under the rules of the House, the Ethics Committee proceedings are private. There--this is the only committee in the Congress where you have five Republicans and five Democrats. And from what I read in the press, the charges against Mr. Rangel were brought by two Republicans and two Democrats together. But this isn't about Charlie Rangel, this is about Nancy Pelosi's biggest failure. She said that it was time to drain the swamp. Not once during this entire two-year proceeding has she called for Chairman Rangel to step down from his post as the ranking Democrat on the Ways and Means Committee.

MR. GREGORY: Is that what you're doing this morning?

REP. BOEHNER: And really...

MR. GREGORY: Should he?

REP. BOEHNER: He already stepped, stepped down but he did it on his own, and, frankly, it was much too late.

MR. GREGORY: Should he step down from Congress, from his seat?

REP. BOEHNER: I think that's for Charlie to decide. But I do think it's time to hold members of Congress accountable. The American people deserve to have members of Congress observe the highest of ethical standards, and it has not happened. I told my colleagues 18 months ago, when I became their leader, that I was going to hold members accountable, and I have.

MR. GREGORY: Leader Boehner, one final question that's been kind of a hot-button issue this week and that is calls by some Republicans to amend the Constitution to change the 14th Amendment, which provides birthright citizenship if you're born in this country. As a matter of fact, on the RNC's Web site, the 14th Amendment is listed as an accomplishment of the
Republicans, one of the major pieces of its legacy over time. Do you support efforts to have the 14th Amendment amended at this point?

REP. BOEHNER: Well, David, I'm not the expert on this issue. I have read the--these comments here over this past week. But I think that we do have--there is a problem. To provide an incentive for illegal immigrants to come here so that their children can be U.S. citizens does, in fact, draw more people to our country. I, I do think that it's time
for us to secure our borders and enforce the law, and allow this conversation about the 14th Amendment to continue.

MR. GREGORY: But do you have a position on it?

REP. BOEHNER: Listen, I think it's worth considering. But it's a serious problem that affects our country. And in certain parts of our country, clearly, our schools, our hospitals, are being overrun by illegal immigrants, a lot of whom came here just so their children could
become U.S. citizens.

MR. GREGORY: All right. Leader Boehner...

REP. BOEHNER: They should do it--they should do it the legal way.

MR. GREGORY: All right. Leader Boehner, we'll leave it there. Thank you very much for your views.

REP. BOEHNER: Thank you.

MR. GREGORY: And up next, the battle lines for the midterm election are now drawn. You heard it, the economy, tax cuts, gay marriage, immigration, and the war in Afghanistan, all up for debate. Next, former Democratic Congressman Harold Ford, Republican Congressman Mike Pence, Vanity Fair's Todd Purdum, and NBC's Andrea Mitchell, only on MEET THE PRESS.

(Announcements)

MR. GREGORY: Coming up, our political roundtable weighs in on what has been a long and hot summer politically for the president. How will voters react in November? After this brief commercial break.

MR. DAVID GREGORY: We're back, joined now by host of MSNBC's "Andrea Mitchell Reports," NBC's chief foreign affairs correspondent, Andrea Mitchell; Vanity Fair's national editor, Todd Purdum; former congressman from Tennessee and the author of the new book "More Davids than Goliaths," Democrat Harold Ford; and chairman of the House Republican Conference, Indiana congressman, Mike Pence.

Well, welcome to all of you. There's a lot to get to and the economy is still the top issue and something I talked a lot with Leader Boehner about. First of all, the--in the context of the president's performance, here is his approval ratings as measured by USA Today/Gallup this week, approval at 41 percent, disapproval at 53 percent. Charlie Cook, who's
the influential editor of the Cook Political Report, writes this about the economy, that it is "a millstone around Democrats' necks, and there is not a lot they can do about it." Even President Obama, speaking to a small business on Friday, acknowledged this:

(Videotape, Friday)

PRES. OBAMA: Progress needs to come faster. Our job is to make sure that happens.

(End videotape)

MR. GREGORY: So then, Congressman Ford, what do Democrats do for economic growth to get people back to work?

FMR. REP. HAROLD FORD JR. (D-TN): I think two things. First, we've done a lot. They've preserved the U.S. car industry, they saved the financial industry from going over the brink, they passed the big stimulus. The problem is, a majority of Americans aren't experiencing the benefit of these--this, this legislation yet, which is why I think two or three other things have to be done. First, I'm a believer you have to extend some of the tax cuts. The middle class tax cuts, probably the capital gains and dividend tax cuts, and you probably want to phase in the top rate increases for the wealthiest of Americans. Democrats often compare Warren Buffett, take--they take his language in support of reducing some of these taxes, and they compare him to everyone else. Someone making $251,000 a year is very different than Warren Buffett. I think we have to be sensitive to that.

Two, provide more certainty around the regulatory structure. Broadband and power grids are going to be built out. These big companies with big, big chunks of cash need to know that the--what the rules are going to be going forward.

And three, I happen to think that the president ought to adopt some of the recommendations from his deficit reduction commission. I heard Leader Boehner, evidently there's some Republican interest in raising the retirement age. Some of these things have to be put on the table. The American people expect it, and they continue to watch a Washington that
is broken, that Todd wrote so well about, I think will hurt my party in the fall if we don't begin to do some of these things.

MR. GREGORY: Well, we're going to get to Todd's piece, but Congressman Pence, I mean, this is the tension that I got out with Leader Bennett--Boehner. Republicans want more tax cuts. It seems to me they acknowledge that they are not paid for, and yet, at the same time, they
want tax cuts, but they're so worried about the deficit. How do you resolve that tension?

REP. MIKE PENCE (R-IN): Well, I think the, the way you resolve it is you focus on jobs. I got to tell you, when I'm home in Muncie, Indiana, people are asking the question, "Where are the jobs?" I mean, we have more than 14 million Americans unemployed. National unemployment is 9.5 percent. Clearly, the economic policies of this administration, however well-intentioned, have failed. And we've got to do something different. And it's not, it's not just about preserving the tax relief of 2001 and 2003, David. It is, it is also about beginning to embrace the kind of spending discipline and reform that will...

MR. GREGORY: ...to believe the Republicans will have spending discipline when you're saying extend the tax cuts that aren't paid for and cut the deficit. How is that a consistent, credible message?

REP. PENCE: Well, I understand the credibility problem, David. You know that during the first six years of this decade, I spent most of my time fighting against runaway spending under Republicans. I opposed No Child Left Behind, I opposed the Medicare prescription drug bill, I opposed the Wall Street bailout. What the American people are starting to see is that Republican, Republicans on Capitol Hill get it and the Democrats, from the White House to Capitol Hill, just don't get. You just heard Carol Browner here on the show say that they're, they're intending, I think she said "possibly," to use the lame duck session to pass a national
energy tax. I mean, that, that is, that is outrageous. What the American people know is necessary to get this economy moving again is get federal spending under control and preserve and promote the kind of policies and taxes that'll, that'll create jobs.

MR. GREGORY: Right. But I just want to be clear. So if you want more tax cuts, you would be very specific in saying how they'd be offset with spending cuts, as well, since they will not be paid for. You acknowledge tax cuts being extended cannot be paid for, it would be borrowed money.

REP. PENCE: Well, no. I, I, I don't acknowledge that. I mean, the reality is that I think it's apples and oranges. It's something that John Boehner was talking to you about. Here in Washington, D.C., they, they talk about tax cuts the same way they talk about spending increases as though the government owned all of the money. They say, "Are they paid for?" Well, I think, I think deciding on a government spending increase is very different on whether or not we allow the American people to keep more of their hard-earned tax dollars. But, as John Boehner just said, the most important thing right now is to get this economy moving
again, to create jobs, and to get federal spending under control.

REP. FORD: They do. This is the only reason that Democrats in my party, we have a fighting chance still, in the fall, of holding majorities in both the House and the Senate. Mike and I are friends, but this argument is not credible. And I think, I think most Americans will listen and
say, "Well, you can't have A, B, C, and D and say you don't need B, C, and D. You've got to either say you're going to cut taxes and find some spending cuts." I think we ought to reform long-term entitlement spending in the country, but you can't out of one side of your mouth say, "Yes, we're for tax cuts, we're for spending discipline, and we're for bringing
down the debt." Everyone's got to have an adult conversation here, and that's not, that's not happening. Where I do agree with Mike is this, jobs is the issue. And if we find ourselves in late October, early November when the polling places are getting ready to open and close and
people don't feel better about the economy, his party's in a pretty good position to win a lot of seats.

MR. GREGORY: Andrea Mitchell, bigger picture here beyond the tax debate. You had Secretary Geithner writing a New York Times editorial saying...

MR. GREGORY: ...look, we're on a path toward growth. And yet look at the battering that the president's getting over the fact that there are not jobs. And he's out there saying, "Look, we've got to show more progress faster." This is a big problem for Democrats.

MS. MITCHELL: It's a big problem for Democrats because nothing is going to happen to really improve the jobs picture before November. It's just not going to happen. That's what we know from these latest data. So, given that, he's got to go on the offense and make a credible political argument and maybe an argument that goes beyond economics and just gets
to, I mean, what the White House is saying is, "Let's just beat up on George W. Bush." I'm not sure that's credible so many years after Bush left office. But they can talk about the inheritance, what they came into office with. And the problem that Congressman Ford identified is that all the things that they accomplished are unpopular with most
Americans. If you talk about the stimulus package, they have not really persuaded people that it worked because the jobs aren't there, the tangible evidence isn't there. And they, they don't like the bank bailout, even though most experts would tell you that it was necessary,
despite the--how unpopular it is. And Congressman Pence...

REP. FORD: And the fact that the bank has to pay the money back, which is also an important fact that's overlooked.

MS. MITCHELL: And that they have paid the money back. Congressman Pence is strongly opposed to it, as he's just, as he's just described. Interesting that the majority--that the minority leader, Boehner, opened the door on the retirement age. That was a very big opening and one that, that--I don't know if Congressman Pence agrees with it because some
Republicans may want--not want to follow the leader down that road.

MR. GREGORY: Do, do you agree with that? Should it be raised to 70?

REP. PENCE: Look, I, I think, I think it is absolutely imperative that we, that we address all of the federal budget and have--and, and I like Harold's comment. We, we miss Democrats like Harold on Capitol Hill these days. Have an adult conversation about domestic spending and about entitlements.

MR. GREGORY: But we keep talking about all these adults conversations.

REP. PENCE: This government, this government has--Todd's point...

MR. GREGORY: It's a narrow question which is you're either for raising the retirement age or you're not. You can have a childlike conversation about it and just say whether you're for it or not.

REP. PENCE: Yeah. Yeah. Look, look, I am for reforming our public entitlements for Americans who are far away from retirement. We need to keep promises to seniors that have been made...

REP. PENCE: ...make sure that people that--who are counting on Medicare or Social Security have the benefits they have. But for younger Americans, absolutely yes, we ought to bring...

MR. GREGORY: All right, but put it on...

REP. PENCE: ...we ought to bring real reform for, for the sake of, of future generations of Americans to get spending under control.

MR. GREGORY: Let--Todd Purdum, let me bring you into this, I want to get to your piece in just a moment. But you know, what we're talking about a lot, whether there's a debt commission that talks about the tough choices that have to be made, is Washington in a position to make some of these really tough choices about taxes, about spending, about other ways to create jobs?

MR. TODD PURDUM: Well, it would seem that--not particularly. I mean, the, the deficit commission's a good example.

MS. MITCHELL: Exactly.

MR. PURDUM: That was appointed by President Obama because Congress refused to pass a--create a commission that would have binding power because of fears on the part of Republicans that it would lead to higher taxes, and on the part of Democrats that it would cut social programs. So the president appointed this advisory commission instead. And Al Simpson and Erskine Bowles are, you know, taking hits that--you know, they've been working for the past 10 weeks. I, I saw Senator Simpson in Wyoming last week. He said he'd been here once a week for 10 weeks, you know. And the notion that a group of some private citizens have to deal with this issue is, is, is a symptom of what's wrong, I think.

MR. GREGORY: Do you think, Congressman Pence, that a debt commission will have any teeth? On this program, I heard the head of the Senate re-election committee say, "Well, we want to wait before proposing spending cuts until we see the debt commission." You all have been around a long time. You know what you'd like to cut. You've been against
spending for a long time. Do you have specific ideas of what you'd like to see cut to bring the deficit under control?

REP. PENCE: Look, we, we've got some terrific people on the Republican side working on the debt commission, and they're working in good faith on it. But, but why, why the president imposed a debt commission that wouldn't report until after the election was a bit telling. I mean, the, the Republicans are not going to support an effort to use the debt
commission as an excuse to raise taxes, to introduce a value-added tax. But let, let me get to the point, Todd, Todd wrote that provocative article in Vanity Fair about Washington being broken. He talked about the president's effort to transcend politics in Washington. And, and,
your, your, your reporting suggested that the president made a concerted effort to reach out to Republicans early on. I got to tell you, this administration hasn't sought to transcend the politics of Washington, D.C. This has been the "my way or the highway" administration. From the stimulus bill forward, Democrats on Capitol Hill and in this administration have slammed the door on Republican ideas, have slammed the door on bipartisan proposals, and, you know--and again, I just saw on your program again, this morning, the president saying even though we
handed the president a book of Republicans solutions in February at our retreat and he acknowledged that we've offered policy alternatives to stimulus, to budget, to energy, to health care, the president's back to that old saw that Republicans have no ideas. And, and I think that's the reason his approval rating is plummeting.

MS. MITCHELL: The reason the president appointed the debt commission was because some senators who had supported it...

MS. MITCHELL: ...including mostly Republican senators, abandoned it. So they couldn't pass the legislation which would have a debt commission with teeth.

REP. PENCE: Well, I think there's a real concern, though, about, you know, going back to Andrews Air Force base again. What was it, back in 1990 again, all--everybody gets all worried about, about spending and, and deficits and debt. And all of a sudden, they come back from Andrews Air Force base with a tax increase under George W. Bush and--or George
Herbert Walker Bush, excuse me. I think Republicans are very, very concerned, I think properly, that this, this debt commission pushed into the lame duck after, after the elections is going to be a vehicle to try and raise taxes on the American people...

REP. FORD: This is precisely what...

REP. PENCE: ...which is a profoundly wrong idea.

REP. FORD: This is why Todd's piece is so, so striking because this is
what the American people are so upset about. They hear all this insider talk about what you guys are doing, what this guy--these guys, we're worried about them doing. They just want answers. If you're without a job or you've taken an job where you're making less than you were before, you just want leadership. Now, my party happens to be in the majority,
and they will probably end up having to make a stronger defense than Republicans. But you guys have an obligation and a burden to lead as well.

REP. PENCE: Right.

REP. FORD: To say the president hasn't, hasn't reached out to Republicans is just not true. We took the public option out of the healthcare bill in order to win some Republican support. That didn't go very well. On interview, we've taken cap and trade...

REP. PENCE: To win Republican support.

REP. FORD: To win some Republican support because Republicans said they didn't want it in there. We all would agree there's a healthcare crisis--health insurance crisis. Two, with regard to energy reform that Democrats have taken out the cap and trade title in order to try to win Republican support. That still hasn't worked. The main person they--the big Republican on the bill, Lindsey Graham, is not only not supporting him, he's now suggesting that we rescind the 14th Amendment all in an effort to try to advance the political conversation about immigration.

MR. GREGORY: ...here, without further ado, is actually a portion of the aforementioned Todd Purdum piece in Vanity Fair. This is the spread--you got a lot of buildup here, now here's the payoff. So here's what you write. "The modern presidency--Barack Obama's presidency--has become a job of such gargantuan size, speed, and complexity as to be all but
unrecognizable to most of the previous chief executives. The sheer growth of the federal government, the paralysis of Congress, the systemic corruption brought on by lobbying, the trivialization of the `news'" by the "media have made today's Washington a depressing and dysfunctional place. They have shaped and at times hobbled the presidency itself."

MR. PURDUM: Well, I think that's probably, you know, almost stating the obvious at some level. One of the, one of the challenges of doing this piece was to find a way to get at some of these problems that are reflected in the daily news coverage, but not really, but not really
explored. And I think, you know, the Obama top team all talks about the speed and the sort of velocity that happens here. You know, I covered the White House 15 years ago, and I, I confess that the origin of this piece is when I would go to the briefing early on in the Obama
administration, the daily press briefing, I found it--I couldn't imagine trying to work in the White House or cover a White House in this modern media environment, particularly where everything moves so quickly and everything rises to the top every hour, regardless of its importance,
just because it's new.

MR. GREGORY: And the question of redistricting as well, Andrea, where you've got House members who are in increasingly safe districts around the country and where there's really not much of a premium put on compromise.

MS. MITCHELL: No premium at all put on compromise. You've never had, not only in the House, but particularly in the Senate, a group that is less motivated. Because they're worried about the wings--of primary challenges on their wings, they're less motivated to work in the middle. The kind of people that you now see talking about the debt commission,
Erskine Bowles and Al Simpson, used to work together and still try to work together. But you don't, in--and particularly in the Senate, have any motivation to try to work on legislative solutions there.

MR. GREGORY: I've got to do two things very quickly. Congressman Pence, the issue of Charlie Rangel. There does not appear to be a deal that's moving forward, and, and there are some reports that Republicans want to see an ethics trial go forward. What is your view on whether he ought to step down from his seat at this point or pursue a trial?

REP. PENCE: If the allegations against Charlie Rangel are true, he should step down from Congress. But only Charlie Rangel knows if that's the case. We're in the trial phase right now. The opportunity for a settlement when two Republicans and two Democrats on the subcommittee were examining these charges, it has gone by the boards. And, and I
really do believe that we ought to let, let Charlie Rangel have his day in court and let the process work.

MR. GREGORY: Harold, there's a lot of pressure on him from the White House down. What's the talk up in New York City?

REP. FORD: In New York, he continues to enjoy support from big and important quarters. He had a birthday party last night, which I understand Mayor Bloomberg said he was going to attend. I don't know if he did attend or not.

MR. GREGORY: A lot of other supporters did not go.

REP. FORD: And some, some others did not go. I think Mike's about right on this. If, if Charlie Rangel, whom I've known a very, very long time, wants to have a trial and defend himself, he has every right to do that. We should not ignore the fact this will--this certainly has a political
impact. I think it contributes to the, the, the narrative that people, or that thinking people, have about Washington that it's just not working. And I can only hope that what--if it happens that it happens quickly.

REP. PENCE: Actually, though, David, real quickly, on this point of Washington not working, the, the, the problems of this administration are not because of the media, they're not because of lobbyists, they're certainly not because of decisive Republican minorities on Capitol Hill. The problems of this administration is this administration and Democrats in Washington are not listening to the American people. On the stimulus, on the national energy tax, on Obamacare, they have rolled over the will of the majority of the American people again and again and again.

MR. GREGORY: All right. Well, that's, that's, that's a...

REP. PENCE: And they're--and now they're blaming the messengers for
that.

MR. GREGORY: OK. I want to move on, otherwise that's, obviously, that’s a debatable point to, to, to post around the table. But I do--Andrea, I want to talk about Afghanistan. Some horrific deaths of aid workers, their bodies coming back to America just earlier today, including from Afghanistan--excuse me--Tom Little, who was a doctor who was working over there. These were aid workers who went out in a very dangerous part of the country in the north and were apparently killed by the Taliban. This is a tough story to watch and just underscores how dangerous the country is.

MS. MITCHELL: It's horrific, and the fact that the Taliban in the north felt empowered to go after these workers. Until now, the real threat was in the south, and perhaps the Taliban are being pushed north, the, the threat is going north. The fact is, Richard Engel, our own chief foreign correspondent, reported last night on "Nightly News" that he talked to
Dr. Karen Woo, to one of those workers, one of those doctors, and she came to the NBC bureau and wanted to bring a camera with her. So it's...

MR. GREGORY: But they thought it was just too dangerous. Yeah.

MS. MITCHELL: And this is exactly what, what Hillary Clinton has been trying to do. More civilian projects...

MR. GREGORY: Right.

MS. MITCHELL: ...not viable.

MR. GREGORY: All right. Thank you very much. We'll leave it there. We'll be right back.

(Announcements)

MR. DAVID GREGORY: That is all for today. Next Sunday, a special edition of MEET THE PRESS from Afghanistan. I will be there to speak with General David Petraeus for his first interview since taking command there. If it's Sunday, it's MEET THE PRESS.

Video: Watch the full broadcast

Transcript of: Watch the full broadcast

MR. DAVID GREGORY:This Sunday, the hole has finally been plugged in the gulf, but is it really
mission accomplished
? How much oil was spilled? Is the environmental crisis over? How will
BP
be held
accountable
? Plus,
where do we go from here
on
energy policy
and
oil drilling
? I'll ask the president's top environmental and
energy
adviser,
Carol Browner
.

Then a one-on-one
conversation
with the man who hopes to be the next speaker of the
House
,
GOPleader
, Congressman
John Boehner
. What would the
Republicans
do to get people back to work and cut
government spending
?

Finally, our political roundtable weighs in on the long, hot political summer for the president -- ethics scandals, jobs,
gay marriage
, the war in
Afghanistan
, and the choice in November.

PRES. BARACK OBAMA:When you want to
forward
, what, what, what do you put the car in? D. When you want to go backwards, what do you do? You
put it in
R.

MR. GREGORY:With us, former congressman from
Tennessee
and the author of the new book "More
Davids
than
Goliaths
," Democrat
Harold Ford
; congressman from
Indiana
and the chairman from the
House Republican Conference
,
Mike Pence
;
Vanity Fair
's
national
editor
Todd Purdum
; and
NBC
's
Andrea Mitchell
.

Announcer:From
NBC News
in
Washington
,
MEET THE PRESS
with
David Gregory
.

MR. GREGORY:Good morning. It has been 111 days since the explosion of the
Deepwater Horizonoil rig
in the
Gulf of Mexico
. The leak has been plugged, but there are many questions that remain. Here with us now, live this morning in an exclusive interview, the president's top environmental and
energy
adviser,
Carol Browner
.

Ms.
Browner
, welcome back to
MEET THE PRESS
.

MS. CAROL BROWNER:Thank you.

MR. GREGORY:The split-screen, the
before and after
, is striking, and we'll put it up on the screen now. When the oil was gushing, this is what it looked like on the left, and now it has been plugged, on the right. The headline in
The Times-Picayune
down in
New Orleans
really begs the question, "End in
Sight
as
Cement Pumped
into [the]
Rogue Well
." Is the crisis over?

MS. BROWNER:Well, I think the first phase is over in that the well is not leaking, it has not leaked since
July 15th
. Obviously the relief well still has to be finished. That's probably another 10 to 14
days away
. But then we have to stay focused on making sure the beaches are clean, the environmental damage is restored, cleaned up. In the end, that
BP
is held
accountable
. So we see this as a phase, but not the end by any means.

MR. GREGORY:Well, let's go through some of those, then, in turn because they are all important. The question of how much oil is left is one that you have been asked. You were on the "Today" program on Wednesday, and this is what you said. Because there's skepticism about some of it.

MS. BROWNER:I think it's also important to note that our scientists have done an initial assessment and more than three-quarters of the oil is gone, the vast
majority
of the oil is gone.

MR. GREGORY:Three-quarters of the oil is gone. Again, there are some who are casting doubt about that, the claim that you have made. Let's look at -- the
National Incident Command
has put together a graphic of where the oil is -- and if you put it on the screen -- residual, 26; evaporated or dissolved, 25 percent; 24 percent using dispersant. So it's dispersed, and that becomes important -- burned, skimmed, direct recovery. So you have roughly 50 percent there that is still residual or has maybe broken apart.

This is how
The Washington Post
reported on it on Thursday under the headline, "Scientists Question the
Report
of
Shrinking Spill
."

"Some outside researchers said that, given the uncertainty about what's happening in the gulf, the
administration
's assertion that 74 percent of the oil had been accounted for seemed too optimistic. They saw it another way: About half of the oil is probably gone for certain: skimmed, burned, siphoned or evaporated. They said the other half, including the 24 percent that's been `dispersed' but is underwater, is the real total of what's missing. Despite the largest oil-spill response in history, these 2.5 million barrels of oil will be cleaned up by the
Gulf of Mexico
, if at all. The situation is `being portrayed as "the oil is out of the
environment
; it's gone,"' said
Michael Blum
, professor at
Tulane University
in
New Orleans
. But, he said, all that's certain is that `the form of the oil has shifted. Dispersed oil is still oil. It's just in a different form.'"

So how much is still there and how damaging is it, potentially?

MS. BROWNER:Well, I think it's important to
understand
that this was the largest response to an
environmental disaster
. We had over 6,000 vessels, more than 40,000 people, and the goal was to keep the oil off the beaches and out of the marshes and the estuaries. Now, some of it did get on the beaches, some of it got into the estuaries. That has to be cleaned up. Some of it may continue to come on shore, the residual. It'll come on in tar balls and tar mats, and that can be cleaned up. But I think, you know, there was the skimming, there was the burning, there was the containing, it was very successful. Some of it is continuing to break down naturally in the
environment
-- we're talking about molecules the size of a piece of hair -- and we're going to continue to monitor that. The
EPA
has been monitoring,
NOAA
is monitoring, the
Food and Drug Administration
is looking at the fish; and, right now, nobody's seeing anything of concern.
And I
think the good news --
and I
was just down in the gulf. I was in
Florida
on Thursday and Friday. The good news is we're not seeing huge amounts of oil on our beaches and in our marshes.

MR. GREGORY:But you acknowledge that 50 percent of that oil could still be in the gulf in some form. We're far from being
out of the woods
of this. I mean, you talk about on the order of maybe, what, 100 million gallons? This is many orders of magnitude larger than the
Exxon Valdez spill
in
terms
of the sheer amount of oil that's still in there, correct?

MS. BROWNER:Well, the -- this is 18 times bigger than the
Exxon Valdez
, when you look at the total amount that spilled. But, again, it's been captured, it's been contained, it's been burned. I mean, this was a
massive response
. I mean, if you look at what was accomplished in
terms
of the beaches...

MR. GREGORY:But the question, Ms.
Browner
, is, what the impact is of the remaining oil. If -- you're saying, "Look, most of it's gone, essentially. Don't worry about it." The scientists are saying, "We, we don't know if we can not worry about it just yet."

MS. BROWNER:No one's saying don't worry. What we're saying is, right now, the tests show nothing of concern. We're going to continue to test. We're not going away. We're going to continue to work with the
Gulf Coast
communities to make sure their economic losses are honored, to get the fisheries reopened when appropriate.
Later today
, the president's
birthday party
, he's going to be serving his guests seafood from the
Gulf of Mexico
. You know, we want to make sure that these communities are restored and that they're made whole and that the
environment
is made whole. There's still a lot of
work to do
.

MR. GREGORY:Well, here's what you said in
terms
of the
environmental impacts
-- impact. Back in May, when you were last on
MEET THE PRESS
, I asked you about that. This is what you said.

MS. BROWNER:This is probably the biggest
environmental disaster
we've ever faced in this
country
.

MR. GREGORY:Does that still stand? And what does that mean specifically?

MS. BROWNER:We had almost five million barrels of oil leak. We've never seen anything like it before. The idea that, you know, if you went down to the gulf --
and I
know you have -- and asked people what they thought, they would absolutely agree this is the largest
environmental disaster
. And we responded accordingly, and we've been successful in removing a lot of the oil. We're going to remain vigilant. We've got to hold
BPaccountable
for the claims, for the damages to the
environment
.

MS. BROWNER:Well, we, we know that we had oil up in some of the sensitive marshes and the estuaries. That can be cleaned to some degree. Some of the oil will have to dissipate naturally. We need to monitor those estuaries to ensure the health of those estuaries, of the fisheries. While we've reopened some, some remain closed. I mean, it -- you can't put this much oil out there and not be concerned; and that's how we responded, with a great deal of concern.

MR. GREGORY:Let's talk
about
BP
's accountability. How many barrels of oil were spilled?

MS. BROWNER:The estimates are 4.9 million barrels. And that -- those estimates are based on pressure tests that we were able to do when the new
top hat
was put on.

MR. GREGORY:BP
doesn't commit to that figure, do they?

MS. BROWNER:I think
BP
has been silent, but that doesn't matter. We...

MR. GREGORY:But there's a reason they're silent.

MS. BROWNER:...will hold them
accountable
.

MR. GREGORY:They will be held liable.

MS. BROWNER:Because they pay a
penalty
.

MR. GREGORY:They'll pay a
penalty
...

MS. BROWNER:Yes, yes.

MR. GREGORY:...depending on how much.

MS. BROWNER:Absolutely.

MR. GREGORY:So the
government
knows this answer for sure.

MS. BROWNER:Our scientists feel very confident in the answer. I mean, again, we started with just satellite photos, then we were able to get the, you know, the
ROV
photos, and then, ultimately, the pressure tests. And it's based on those pressure tests that this number has been put
forward
.

MR. GREGORY:Will the
government
pursue criminal negligence claims against
BP
to make that financial
penalty
as high as it can be?

MS. BROWNER:I'm not going to comment on the
Department of Justice
investigation. As you know, they have a large investigation under way. I will say this,
BP
will be held absolutely
accountable
.

MR. GREGORY:To the, to the full extent of the law.

MS. BROWNER:Absolutely.

MR. GREGORY:Because you're suggesting here, by everything you're saying, that they were, indeed, negligent and that there should be a large financial
penalty
.

MS. BROWNER:Well, there will be a large financial
penalty
. There'll also be a
natural resource
damages claims. They will be responsible for paying to clean up the
natural resource
damages. There's three ways in which they're held
accountable
. One, for the economic losses, and there we were able to negotiate $20 billion fund, and in the coming days, Mr.
Feinberg
will launch that fund. Secondly are the penalties, which will be significant. And finally, the
natural resource
damages, which they will have to pay for.

MR. GREGORY:How much of the
penalty
dollars should be returned directly to the
Gulf Coast
?

MS. BROWNER:Well, under the current law, it goes to the Treasury.

MR. GREGORY:Right.

MS. BROWNER:We think it should be returned to the
Gulf Coast
, obviously.

MR. GREGORY:So 80 percent is a reasonable figure. Does the president commit himself to that?

MS. BROWNER:Well, we're going to have to work with
Congress
, you know.
Congress
has not been forthcoming in
terms
of passing a -- the
oil spill
legislation.
The House
did, but the
Senate
didn't. We're going to have to work with them to make sure that the
Gulf Coast
communities see the benefits of this
money
.

MR. GREGORY:So -- but the president, at least, supports the notion of
majority
of this
penaltymoney
being returned to the region.

MS. BROWNER:He absolutely supports the notion of returning it to the region.

MR. GREGORY:Let me ask you about the
moratorium
. The president, in his address to the nation, imposed the
moratorium
, said it was the right thing to do. Now there is some talk that it might be lifted early. Is that possible?

MS. BROWNER:Well, the...

MR. GREGORY:Now this is, I should say, a
moratorium
on
deepwater drilling
...

MS. BROWNER:Right.

MR. GREGORY:...in the gulf, 33 deepwater rigs in the gulf currently.

MS. BROWNER:So it's important to
understand
what the president has said. He said three things. First of all, we have to
understand
what happened so we can make sure that all the safety measures are in place so it doesn't happen again. Secondly, in the
worst case scenario
, if we did have another leak, we have to be able to contain it. Now, we've learned a lot about how to contain it, and some of the other
oil companies
have come forth and said perhaps we should pre-stage the containment equipment. We think that makes a lot of sense. And then finally, we have to be able to clean it up. We've learned a lot about how you clean it up. We've learned, "How does the burning work, how does the skimming work, how does the booming work?" You know, if we're able to answer those questions, then this pause in drilling can be lifted. But until we answer those questions, we need to make sure that we keep the
Gulf Coast
community safe.

MR. GREGORY:So what are the chances it gets lifted early?

MS. BROWNER:You know, I don't want to speculate on that. The work is being done, the analysis is being done.
Michael Bromwich
is at the
Department of Interior
doing his job. You know, I'm going to let them do their job, and if it's appropriate, it'll be lifted.

MR. GREGORY:Are you not satisfied with the answers that you're getting so far to those questions about safety?

MS. BROWNER:It's just that it's a very rigorous review that's under way, and, you know, they're in the
middle
of the review, so I just don't want to speculate. We, we
understand
the importance of these jobs, but we also
understand
the importance of protecting the
Gulf Coast
and the communities.

MR. GREGORY:You talk about all the work here being done for safety. Did the
White House
do any economic analysis about what a
moratorium
-- what impact it would have on jobs in the
Gulf Coast
?

MS. BROWNER:There is, there is an economic analysis being done. It'll be ready later...

MR. GREGORY:But it was never done before the
moratorium
was put in place? Because those who are down there say, "You know what, the
moratorium
by the
Obamaadministration
is far worse than the spill itself."

MS. BROWNER:Here's what we knew the minute the accident happened: that if there was another accident of equal size, we didn't have the equipment to respond. All the boats, all the resources were being used. We had a close -- over 6,000 vessels, we embedded private
citizens
into this
effort
. It was a massive undertaking, and if another accident were to occur, we would not have had the ability to respond. And, you know, that formed a basis for putting a pause on drilling while we looked at the safety, while we looked at how we would contain it, ultimately, and then clean it up.

MR. GREGORY:Final question here. The president said, in his address to the nation, this, about climate change legislation.

PRES. OBAMA:The tragedy unfolding on our coast is the most painful and powerful reminder yet that the time to embrace a
clean energy
future is now. ... The one approach I will not accept is inaction. The one answer I will not settle for is the idea that this challenge is somehow too big and too difficult to meet.

MR. GREGORY:He said he won't settle for inaction, and yet, there is inaction.

MS. BROWNER:Right.

MR. GREGORY:Is it failure?

MS. BROWNER:We're deeply disappointed that we were not able to get
clean energy
legislation. There's a tremendous opportunity for our
country
to lead the global
clean energy
revolution. But that requires us to put in place the, the right laws, the right signals so that we build the wind turbines here, we build the solar panels, then we can ship them to
China
. We're in danger of losing out.

MR. GREGORY:I
understand
the arguments. The president drew a
line in the sand
there. Is he conceding defeat on this?

MS. BROWNER:Not yet.
The Congress
is coming back. We will continue to see if we can get legislation. We passed it in the
House
. We'll continue to work in the
Senate
.

MR. GREGORY:Lame duck session
, they could do it potentially there.

MS. BROWNER:Potentially.

MR. GREGORY:All right, we'll, we'll be watching.
Carol Browner
,
thank you very much
as always.

MS. BROWNER:Thank you.

MR. GREGORY:We turn now to the man trying to lead his
party
to victory this November,
House
Republican
Leader John Boehner
of
Ohio
. He joins us this morning from
Cincinnati
.

Leader Boehner
, welcome back to
MEET THE PRESS
.

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH):David
, good morning.

MR. GREGORY:I want to continue on the, the
Gulf Coast
spill as we near completion of this, and you've heard
Carol Browner
's comments. I want to pick up on holding
BPaccountable
. Do you think the
government
should pursue criminal negligence claims against
BP
?

REP. BOEHNER:I think the
government
should do everything they possibly can to, to bring this crisis to an end; and that means going after
BP
, enforcing the laws that are on the books, and restoring the gulf to its original condition. I think
BP
has stepped
forward
in
terms
of the
money
that they've put
forward
so far. But there is the law, and they should be held
accountable
.

MR. GREGORY:The question, however, also extends to, in
terms
of revitalizing the
Gulf Coast
, this issue of the
moratorium
on
deepwater drilling
. You heard
Carol Browner
concede the
White House
didn't do an economic analysis about what it would do to jobs and to the industries along the
Gulf Coast
. Should that
moratorium
be lifted by this point?

REP. BOEHNER:I believe the
moratorium
should be lifted. We've been drilling in the
Gulf Coast
now for 60 years. There are 40,000 wells operating in the
Gulf Coast
. There clearly was a mistake made with regard to this one well, but I think that we're risking 100,000 jobs in the
Gulf Coast
with the continuation of this
moratorium
, and I do believe that, that there are enough practices in place, enough safety precautions in place to allow this drilling to continue. Because if we're serious about moving toward
energy independence
, we need to do
all of the above
, which includes exploration for more
oil and gas
in the
United States of America.

MR. GREGORY:There seems to be some bipartisan agreement about this point: When it comes to the gulf
oil spill
and in
terms
of the, the permits being issued, there was a failure of regulation. When it comes to the
Wall Street
collapse, the
financial system
collapse, a failure of regulation. And yet, you said something in July that caught my attention about a
moratorium
on regulations. You said, "I think having a
moratorium
on new
federal regulations
is a great idea. It sends a wonderful signal to the
private sector
that they're going to have some
breathing room
." Do you think that's what the
private sector
needs right now, is
breathing room
?

REP. BOEHNER:I do think the
private sector
needs some
breathing room
. When you look at all of the, the uncertainty that's being created by the
Democrats'
agenda, they've got every employer in
America
, every investor in
America
scared to death, and they're frozen. When you look at what happened on
Wall Street
, when you look at what happened in the gulf, it wasn't that we didn't have enough regulations; what, what we didn't have was enough enforcement by the
federal
bureaucrats in charge of pursuing these things.

The
SEC
could have done a lot more with regard to the financial meltdown, except they didn't. It's pretty clear that those bureaucrats charged with inspecting these wells didn't do their job. And so it's not more regulations. How about we enforce the ones we have now?

MR. GREGORY:Let me talk about, on the subject of regulations and the broader
economy
, the job numbers that came out Friday were disappointing. The
private sector
job growth is anemic at best, and yet the president says he is not fearful of a so-called "double-dip" recession. What do you say?

REP. BOEHNER:Well, I'm concerned about the state of the
economy
. It's pretty clear that over the last three months the
economy
has paused. And it's also pretty clear the
American people
are still demanding and asking the question, "Where are the jobs?" And the reason we don't have new jobs is because of the job-killing agenda pursued by
President Obama
and his allies in the
Congress
. They really do, they have employers scared to death. I've been all over my
district
over the last several days. I was in a couple of my neighboring
states
. I talked to a lot of employers who just are, are fearful of what's coming next out of
Washington
. It's all the spending, it's all the debt. It's their
nationalenergy tax
, they want to call it
cap and trade
-- more mandates, higher costs, more
taxes
. Their healthcare bill -- more mandates, higher costs, higher
taxes
. And if all that did -- isn't bad enough, they want to raise the
taxes
on the
American people
.

MR. GREGORY:Well, let's...

REP. BOEHNER:It's no wonder that employers are frozen.

MR. GREGORY:Let's talk
about it. It's interesting, you talk about the importance of cutting the debt, the importance of cutting
government spending
, and you worry about the
Democratsraising taxes
.
The Bush
-- the
Obamaadministration
wants to extend the
Bush tax cuts
only for those who make less than $250,000, and he wants to let them expire for those wealthy
Americans
making more than that. You're opposed to that. You want to extend the
tax cuts
, and the Republican leadership does. But
Alan Greenspan
, who was on this program last week, chairman of the
Federal Reserve
, said that's the wrong idea. Here's what he said.

DR. ALAN GREENSPAN:Look, I'm very much in favor of
tax cuts
, but not with borrowed
money
. And the
problem
that we've gotten into in recent years is spending programs with borrowed
money
,
tax cuts
with borrowed
money
, and
at the end of the day
that proves disastrous. And my view is I don't think we can play subtle policy here.

REP. BOEHNER:The only way we're going to get our
economy
going again and
solve
our
budgetproblems
is to get the
economy
moving, get more people back to work where they can care for their own families and begin to expand the tax rolls to bring more revenue to the
federal government
. And what we have to do is we have to get our arms around the spending spree that's going on in
Washington
,
D.C.

MR. GREGORY:But
LeaderBoehner
...

REP. BOEHNER:That's the only way we
solve
the
budgetproblems
.

MR. GREGORY:...I'm sorry, you're -- that -- you're not, you're not being responsive to a specific point, which is how can you be for cutting the
deficit
and also cutting
taxes
, as well, when they're not paid for?

REP. BOEHNER:Listen, you can't raise
taxes
in the
middle
of a weak
economy
without risking the double-dip in this recession.
President Obama
's favorite Republican economist,
Mark Zandi
, came out several weeks ago and made it clear that
raising taxes
at this point in, in the
economy
is a very bad idea.

MR. GREGORY:But do you agree that
tax cuts
cannot be paid for...

REP. BOEHNER:You cannot balance the
budget
without a...

MR. GREGORY:But
tax cuts
are not paid for, is that correct?

REP. BOEHNER:I am not for
raising taxes
on the
American people
in a soft
economy
.

MR. GREGORY:That's not the question,
Leader Boehner
. The question...

REP. BOEHNER:And the people that the president wants to tax...

MR. GREGORY:...is, are
tax cuts
paid for or not?

REP. BOEHNER:Listen, what you're trying to do is get into this
Washington
game and their funny accounting over there. You cannot get the
economy
going again by
raising taxes
on those people who we expect to create jobs in
America
and to get the
economy
going again. If we want to
solve
the
budgetproblem
, we've got to have a healthy
economy
and we have to get our arms around the runaway spending that's going on in
Washington
,
D.C.

MR. GREGORY:I just want to clarify this. I mean, if you -- I'm relying on what Chairman
Greenspan
said. Maybe -- if you're accusing him of funny
Washington
games. He says that
tax cuts
that aren't paid for are not -- they are not cutting the
deficit
, that they are not actually paid for, it's borrowed
money
. And so do you believe
tax cuts
pay for themselves or not?

REP. BOEHNER:I do believe that we've got to get more
money
in the hands of small businesses and American families to get our
economy
going again, and the only way to get that
economy
going again is to do that and to get our arms around the spending.

MR. GREGORY:All right. One of the ways you talk about getting your arms around the spending was something you suggested back in June, and that is that
Social Security
, the
retirement age
, ought to be raised to the age of 70. Is that something that the
GOP
will campaign on in the fall?

REP. BOEHNER:David
, I think it's time for the
American people
to have an adult
conversation
about the
problems
that we face. These
entitlement programs
serve tens of millions of
Americans
, and they're critically important. But we also know that these programs are, are unsustainable in their current form.
And I
really do think it's time that we sit down and we talk to the
American people
together about how we
solve
them.
And I
think we need to bring
Democrats
and
Republicans
together in order to
solve
this
problem
.

MR. GREGORY:And so you favor raising the
retirement age
?

REP. BOEHNER:David
, there are a lot of options about how you
solve
this, but I don't want to get the cart before the horse. I think it's important to have this
conversation
. It's going to be a difficult
conversation
, but it's time to have it and it's
time to come
up with some solutions that are done in a bipartisan way to help address these
problems
.

MR. GREGORY:Let me talk about the, the midterm race. Several months ago, back in March, you thought it would be a steep climb for
Republicans
to retake the
House
. What do you say today?

REP. BOEHNER:I continue to believe that it is a challenge for us to take back the
House
. But we've got candidates, more candidates than we've ever had. We have 430 districts with one or more Republican candidates in the race. We have the -- better candidates than we ever had. But we want to earn back the
majority
in order to renew our
effort
to go after a smaller, less costly, and more
accountablefederal government
in
Washington
,
D.C.

MR. GREGORY:But you still think it's a challenge. It was interesting. The president's press secretary,
Robert Gibbs
, as you know, said on this program that he thought it was possible that
Republicans
could take over the
House
. He, he now believes that's not the case. That caused quite a stir. What impact do you think that had? And yet, it hasn't changed your view about the challenges that
Republicans
face.

REP. BOEHNER:Well,
David
, listen, it's only August. There are a lot of things that can happen between now and
Election Day
. Is it possible? Yes, it certainly is possible. There are a hundred seats in play around the
country
, and 94 of them are held by Democrat members. I've, I've been all over my
district
, I've been through a lot of other districts. The American people are screaming at the top of their lungs to
Washington
, "Stop! Stop the spending, stop the job-killing policies." And yet,
Democrats
in
Washington
refuse to listen to the
American people
.
Republicans
have been listening all summer with our program
America Speaking Out
.

MR. GREGORY:Well...

REP. BOEHNER:We're listening.

MR. GREGORY:...you, you...

REP. BOEHNER:We're going to come
forward
with our, with our agenda right after
Labor Day
.

MR. GREGORY:Right after
Labor Day
. Why wait until then? Why not do it now?

REP. BOEHNER:I think it's important that we listen to the
American people
. It's not about what I think, it's about what the
American people
think. And at americaspeakingout.com, hundreds of thousands of people have given us ideas about what
Washington
should be doing. People have voted on other people's ideas. And if people want to go to americaspeakingout.com, they can participate in this. And out of this listening, we will have a governing agenda to, to get this
country
...

MR. GREGORY:All right. But
LeaderBoehner
...

REP. BOEHNER:...this
country
back on track.

MR. GREGORY:Leader Boehner
, you -- but you are certainly campaigning to be the next speaker. As a matter of fact, you can go on boehnerforspeaker.org and order a mug, among other items, to
support
that
effort
. And yet, the president of the
United States
is going to fundraisers around the
country
and slamming
Republicans
. This is one of the things that he says:

PRES. OBAMA:They have not come up with a single, solitary new idea to address the challenges of the
American people
. They don't have a single idea that's different from
George Bush
's ideas. Not one.

MR. GREGORY:What do you say to that
?

REP. BOEHNER:When I handed
Nancy Pelosi
the gavel 18 months ago, I said that if
Republicans
had to oppose our Democrat colleagues or our new president, it was our obligation to tell the
American people
how we would do it differently. Every time we've opposed our Democratic colleagues, we've offered what we thought was a better solution. Each and every time. And when we roll out our agenda, we're going to roll out our solutions to
solve
the
problem
of the joblessness in American to get
Americans
back to work, and how we would
control
spending.

MR. GREGORY:Do you want -- will you offer specific spending cuts to offset the
money
that's lost by extending
tax cuts
?

REP. BOEHNER:Listen, we've offered all kinds of spending cuts. As a matter of fact,
Paul Ryan
and
Jeb Hensarling
, two leaders on our
budget committee
, have offered $1.3 trillion worth of spending cuts. We've offered these to the president, asked the president to send recisions to the
Congress
, and we offered to work with him to enact those recisions. Why don't we stop the stimulus spending? There's still about $400 billion or $500 billion of the stimulus plan that has not been spent. Why don't we stop it. It's not working. Secondly, why don't we make sure that we get all the
TARP
funds back and use it to pay down the
deficit
. Why don't we put a cap on
discretionary spending
at much lower levels than we have today.
It's time
to stop the spending spree in
Washington
,
D.C.

MR. GREGORY:The president, of course, has called for a cap on
discretionary spending
.

REP. BOEHNER:I'm talking about a real cap, like at
2008
levels, not at
2010
levels.

MR. GREGORY:All right. Let me ask you about a couple of other topics, including the ethics scandal surrounding Congressman
Charlie Rangel
. There's news out this morning that there was a deal that was being discussed and that it was
Republicans
who stood in the way. They wanted a trial. Is that accurate?

REP. BOEHNER:I would have no idea. Under the rules of the
House
, the
Ethics Committee
proceedings are private. There -- this is the only
committee
in the
Congress
where you have five
Republicans
and five
Democrats
. And from what I read in the press, the charges against Mr.
Rangel
were brought by two
Republicans
and two
Democrats
together. But this isn't about
Charlie Rangel
, this is about
Nancy Pelosi
's biggest failure. She said that it was time to drain the swamp. Not once during this entire two-year proceeding has she called for Chairman
Rangel
to step down from his post as the ranking Democrat on the
Ways and Means Committee
.

MR. GREGORY:Is that what you're doing this morning?

REP. BOEHNER:And really...

MR. GREGORY:Should he?

REP. BOEHNER:He already stepped, stepped down but he did it on his own, and, frankly, it was much too late.

MR. GREGORY:Should he step down from
Congress
, from his seat?

REP. BOEHNER:I think that's for
Charlie
to decide. But I do think it's time to hold members of
Congressaccountable
. The American people deserve to have members of
Congress
observe the highest of ethical standards, and it has not happened. I told my colleagues 18 months ago, when I became their
leader
, that I was going to hold members
accountable
, and I have.

MR. GREGORY:Leader Boehner
, one final question that's been kind of a hot-button issue this week and that is calls by some
Republicans
to amend the
Constitution
to change the
14th Amendment
, which provides birthright citizenship if you're born in this
country
. As a matter of fact, on the
RNC
's
Web site
, the
14th Amendment
is listed as an accomplishment of the
Republicans
, one of the major pieces of its legacy
over time
. Do you
support
efforts to have the
14th Amendment
amended at this point?

REP. BOEHNER:Well,
David
, I'm not the expert on this issue. I have read the -- these comments here over this past week. But I think that we do have -- there is a
problem
. To provide an incentive for illegal immigrants to come here so that their children can be
U.S. citizens
does, in fact, draw more people to our
country
. I, I do think that it's time for us to secure our borders and enforce the law, and allow this
conversation
about the
14th Amendment
to continue.

MR. GREGORY:But do you have a position on it?

REP. BOEHNER:Listen, I think it's worth considering. But it's a serious
problem
that affects our
country
. And in certain parts of our
country
, clearly, our schools, our hospitals, are being overrun by illegal immigrants, a lot of whom came here just so their children could become
U.S. citizens
.

Well, welcome to all of you. There's a lot to get to and the
economy
is still the top issue and something I talked a lot with
Leader Boehner
about. First of all, the -- in the context of the president's performance, here is his approval ratings as measured by
USA Today
/
Gallup
this week, approval at 41 percent, disapproval at 53 percent.
Charlie Cook
, who's the influential editor of the
Cook Political Report
, writes this about the
economy
, that it is "a millstone around
Democrats'
necks, and there is not a lot they can do about it." Even
President Obama
, speaking to a
small business
on Friday, acknowledged this:

PRES. OBAMA:Progress needs to come faster. Our job is to make sure that happens.

MR. GREGORY:So then, Congressman
Ford
, what do
Democrats
do for
economic growth
to get people back to work?

FMR. REP. HAROLD FORD JR. (D-TN):I think two things. First, we've done a lot. They've preserved the
U.S.car industry
, they saved the
financial industry
from going over the brink, they passed the big stimulus. The
problem
is, a
majority
of
Americans
aren't experiencing the benefit of these -- this, this legislation yet, which is why I think two or three other things have to be done. First, I'm a believer you have to extend some of the
tax cuts
. The
middle classtax cuts
, probably the capital gains and dividend
tax cuts
, and you probably want to phase in the top rate increases for the wealthiest of
Americans
.
Democrats
often compare
Warren Buffett
, take -- they take his language in
support
of reducing some of these
taxes
, and they compare him to everyone else. Someone making $251,000 a year is very different than
Warren Buffett
. I think we have to be sensitive to that.

Two, provide more certainty around the regulatory structure. Broadband and power grids are going to be built out. These big companies with big, big chunks of cash
need to know
that the -- what the rules are going to be going
forward
.

And three, I happen to think that the president ought to adopt some of the recommendations from his
deficit
reduction
commission
. I heard
Leader Boehner
, evidently there's some Republican interest in raising the
retirement age
. Some of these things have to be put on the table. The American people expect it, and they continue to watch a
Washington
that is broken, that
Todd
wrote so well about, I think will hurt my
party
in the fall if we don't begin to do some of these things.

MR. GREGORY:Well, we're going to get to
Todd
's piece, but Congressman
Pence
, I mean, this is the tension that I got out with
Leader Bennett
--
Boehner
.
Republicans
want more
tax cuts
. It seems to me they acknowledge that they are not paid for, and yet, at the same time, they want
tax cuts
, but they're so worried about the
deficit
. How do you resolve that tension?

REP. MIKE PENCE (R-IN):Well, I think the, the way you resolve it is you focus on jobs. I got to tell you, when I'm home in
Muncie
,
Indiana
, people are asking the question, "Where are the jobs?" I mean, we have more than 14 million
Americans
unemployed.
National
unemployment is 9.5 percent. Clearly, the
economic policies
of this
administration
, however well intentioned, have failed. And we've got to do something different. And it's not, it's not just about preserving the tax relief of
2001
and
2003
,
David
. It is, it is also about beginning to embrace the kind of spending discipline and
reform
that will...

MR. GREGORY:But, Congressman, you're asking
Americans
to...

REP. PENCE:...that will restore confidence to markets.

MR. GREGORY:...to believe the
Republicans
will have spending discipline when you're saying extend the
tax cuts
that aren't paid for and cut the
deficit
. How is that a consistent, credible message?

REP. PENCE:Well, I
understand
the credibility
problem
,
David
. You know that during the first six years of this decade, I spent most of my time fighting against runaway spending under
Republicans
. I opposed
No Child Left Behind
, I opposed the
Medicare
prescription drug bill, I opposed the
Wall Street
bailout. What the
American people
are starting to see is that Republican,
Republicans
on
Capitol Hill
get it and the
Democrats
, from the
White House
to
Capitol Hill
, just don't get. You just heard
Carol Browner
here on the show say that they're, they're intending, I think she said "possibly" to use the
lame duck session
to pass a
nationalenergy tax
. I mean, that, that is, that is outrageous. What the
American people
know is necessary to get this
economy
moving again is get
federal
spending under
control
and preserve and promote the kind of policies and
taxes
that'll, that'll create jobs.

MR. GREGORY:Right. But I just want to be clear. So if you want more
tax cuts
, you would be very specific in saying how they'd be offset with spending cuts, as well, since they will not be paid for. You acknowledge
tax cuts
being extended cannot be paid for, it would be borrowed
money
.

REP. PENCE:Well, no. I, I, I don't acknowledge that. I mean, the reality is that I think it's apples and oranges. It's something that
John Boehner
was
talking to you
about. Here in
Washington
,
D.C.
, they, they talk about
tax cuts
the same way they talk about spending increases as though the
government
owned all of the
money
. They say, "Are they paid for?" Well, I think, I think deciding on a
government spending
increase is very different on whether or not we allow the
American people
to keep more of their hard-earned tax dollars. But, as
John Boehner
just said, the most important thing right now is to get this
economy
moving again, to create jobs, and to get
federal
spending under
control
.

REP. FORD:This is, this is...

MR. GREGORY:But,
Harold
, do they -- do
Republicans
have a
problem
here?

REP. FORD:They do. This is the only reason that
Democrats
in my
party
, we have a fighting chance still, in the fall, of holding majorities in both the
House
and the
Senate
.
Mike
and I are friends, but this argument is not credible.
And I
think, I think most
Americans
will listen and say, "Well, you can't have A, B, C, and D and say you don't need B, C, and
D. You
've got to either say you're going to cut
taxes
and find some spending cuts." I think we ought to
reform
long-term entitlement spending in the
country
, but you can't out of one side of your mouth say, "Yes, we're for
tax cuts
, we're for spending discipline, and we're for bringing down the debt." Everyone's got to have an adult
conversation
here, and that's not, that's not happening. Where I do agree with
Mike
is this, jobs is the issue. And if we find ourselves in late October,
early November
when the polling places are getting ready to open and close and people don't feel better about the
economy
, his
party
's in a pretty good position to win a lot of seats.

MR. GREGORY:Andrea Mitchell
, bigger picture here beyond the tax debate. You had Secretary
Geithner
writing a
New York Times
editorial saying...

MS. ANDREA MITCHELL:Yeah.

MR. GREGORY:...look, we're on a path toward growth. And yet look at the battering that the president's getting over the fact that there are not jobs. And he's out there saying, "Look, we've got to show more progress faster." This is a big
problem
for
Democrats
.

MS. MITCHELL:It's a big
problem
for
Democrats
because nothing is going to happen to really improve the jobs picture before November. It's just not going to happen.
That's what
we know from these latest data. So, given that, he's got to go on the offense and make a credible
political argument
and maybe an argument that goes beyond economics and just gets to, I mean, what the
White House
is saying is, "Let's just beat up on
George W. Bush
." I'm not sure that's credible so many years after
Bush
left office. But they can talk about the inheritance, what they came into office with. And the
problem
that Congressman
Ford
identified is that all the things that they accomplished are unpopular with most
Americans
. If you talk about the
stimulus package
, they have not really persuaded people that it worked because the jobs aren't there, the tangible evidence isn't there. And they, they don't like the bank bailout, even though most experts would tell you that it was necessary, despite the -- how unpopular it is. And Congressman Pence...

REP. FORD:And the fact that the bank has to pay the
money
back, which is also an important fact that's overlooked.

MS. MITCHELL:And that they have paid the
money
back. Congressman
Pence
is strongly opposed to it, as he's just, as he's just described. Interesting that the
majority
-- that the minority
leader
,
Boehner
, opened the door on the
retirement age
. That was a very big opening and one that, that -- I don't know if Congressman
Pence
agrees with it because some
Republicans
may want -- not want to follow the
leader
down that road.

REP. PENCE:Look, I, I think, I think it is absolutely imperative that we, that we address all of the
federal budget
and have -- and, and I like
Harold
's comment. We, we miss
Democrats
like
Harold
on
Capitol Hill
these days. Have an adult
conversation
about domestic spending and about entitlements.

MR. GREGORY:But we
keep talking
about all these adults conversations.

REP. PENCE:This
government
, this
government
has --
Todd
's point...

MR. GREGORY:It's a narrow question which is you're either for raising the
retirement age
or you're not. You can have a childlike
conversation
about it and just say whether you're for it or not.

REP. PENCE:Yeah. Yeah.
Look
, look, I am for reforming our public entitlements for
Americans
who are
far away
from retirement. We need to keep promises to seniors that have been made...

MR. GREGORY:But put everything on the table.

REP. PENCE:...make sure that people that -- who are counting on
Medicare
or
Social Security
have the benefits they have. But for younger
Americans
, absolutely yes, we ought to bring...

MR. GREGORY:All right, but put it on...

REP. PENCE:...we ought to bring real
reform
for, for the sake of, of future generations of
Americans
to get spending under
control
.

MR. GREGORY:Let --
Todd Purdum
, let me bring you into this, I want to get to your piece in just a moment. But you know, what we're talking about a lot, whether there's a debt
commission
that talks about the tough choices that have to be made, is
Washington
in a position to make some of these really tough choices about
taxes
, about spending, about other ways to create jobs?

MR. TODD PURDUM:Well, it would seem that -- not particularly. I mean, the, the
deficitcommission
's a good example.

MS. MITCHELL:Exactly.

MR. PURDUM:That was appointed by
President Obama
because
Congress
refused to pass a -- create a
commission
that would have binding power because of fears on the part of
Republicans
that it would lead to higher
taxes
, and on the part of
Democrats
that it would cut social programs. So the president appointed this advisory
commission
instead. And
Al Simpson
and
Erskine Bowles
are, you know, taking hits that -- you know, they've been working for the past 10 weeks. I, I saw Senator
Simpson
in
Wyoming
last week. He said he'd been here once a week for 10 weeks, you know. And the notion that a group of some private
citizens
have to deal with this issue is, is, is a symptom of what's wrong, I think.

MR. GREGORY:Do you think, Congressman
Pence
, that a debt
commission
will have any teeth? On this program, I heard the head of the
Senate
re-
election committee
say, "Well, we want to wait before proposing spending cuts until we see the debt
commission
." You all have been around a long time. You know what you'd like to cut. You've been against spending for a long time. Do you have specific ideas of what you'd like to see cut to bring the
deficit
under
control
?

REP. PENCE:Look, we, we've got some terrific people on the
Republican side
working on the debt
commission
, and they're working in good faith on it. But, but why, why the president imposed a debt
commission
that wouldn't report until after the
election
was a bit telling. I mean, the, the
Republicans
are not going to
support
an
effort
to use the debt
commission
as an excuse to raise
taxes
, to introduce a value-added tax. But let, let me get to the point,
Todd
,
Todd
wrote that provocative article in
Vanity Fair
about
Washington
being broken. He talked about the president's
effort
to transcend politics in
Washington
. And, and, your, your, your reporting suggested that the president made a concerted
effort
to reach out to
Republicans
early on. I got to tell you, this
administration
hasn't sought to transcend the politics of
Washington
,
D.C. This
has been the "my way or the highway"
administration
. From the stimulus bill
forward
,
Democrats
on
Capitol Hill
and in this
administration
have slammed the door on Republican ideas, have slammed the door on bipartisan proposals, and, you know -- and again, I just saw on your program again, this morning, the president saying even though we handed the president a book of
Republicans
solutions in February at our retreat and he acknowledged that we've offered policy alternatives to stimulus, to
budget
, to
energy
, to
health care
, the president's back to that old saw that
Republicans
have no ideas. And, and I think that's the reason his
approval rating
is plummeting.

MS. MITCHELL:The reason the president appointed the debt
commission
was because some senators who had supported it...

REP. FORD:Republican senators...

MS. MITCHELL:...including mostly Republican senators, abandoned it. So they couldn't pass the legislation which would have a debt
commission
with teeth.

REP. PENCE:Well, I think there's a real concern, though, about, you know, going back to
Andrews Air Force base
again. What was it, back in
1990
again, all -- everybody gets all worried about, about spending and, and deficits and debt. And
all of a sudden
, they come back from
Andrews Air Force base
with a tax increase under
George W. Bush
and -- or
George Herbert Walker Bush
, excuse me. I think
Republicans
are very, very concerned, I think properly, that this, this debt
commission
pushed into the lame duck after, after the elections is going to be a vehicle to try and raise
taxes
on the
American people
...

REP. FORD:This is precisely what...

REP. PENCE:...which is a profoundly wrong idea.

REP. FORD:This is why
Todd
's piece is so, so striking because this is what the
American people
are so upset about. They hear all this insider talk about what you guys are doing, what this guy -- these guys, we're worried about them doing. They just want answers. If you're without a job or you've taken an job where you're making less than you were before, you just want leadership. Now, my
party
happens to be in the
majority
, and they will probably end up having to make a stronger defense than
Republicans
. But you guys have an obligation and a burden to lead as well.

REP. PENCE:Right.

REP. FORD:To say the president hasn't, hasn't reached out to
Republicans
is just not true. We took the public option out of the healthcare bill in order to win some Republican
support
. That didn't go very well. On interview, we've taken
cap and trade
...

REP. PENCE:To win Republican
support
.

REP. FORD:To win some Republican
support
because
Republicans
said they didn't want it in there. We all would agree there's a healthcare crisis --
health insurance
crisis. Two, with regard to
energyreform
that
Democrats
have taken out the
cap and trade
title in order to try to win Republican
support
. That still hasn't worked. The main person they -- the big Republican on the bill,
Lindsey Graham
, is not only not supporting him, he's now suggesting that we rescind the
14th Amendment
all in an
effort
to try to advance the political
conversation
about immigration.

MR. GREGORY:Let, let, let me get in here because...

REP. FORD:That's wrong. That's wrong.

MR. GREGORY:...here, without further ado, is actually a portion of the aforementioned
Todd Purdum
piece in
Vanity Fair
. This is the spread -- you got a lot of buildup here, now here's the payoff. So here's what you write. "The modern
presidency
--
Barack Obama
's
presidency
-- has become a job of such gargantuan size, speed, and complexity as to be all but unrecognizable to most of the previous chief executives. The sheer growth of the
federal government
, the paralysis of
Congress
, the systemic corruption brought on by lobbying, the trivialization of the `news'" by the "media have made today's
Washington
a depressing and dysfunctional place. They have shaped and at times hobbled the
presidency
itself."

MR. PURDUM:Well, I think that's probably, you know, almost stating the obvious at some level. One of the, one of the challenges of doing this piece was to find a way to get at some of these
problems
that are reflected in the daily news coverage, but not really, but not really explored.
And I
think, you know, the
Obama
top team all talks about the speed and the sort of velocity that happens here. You know, I covered the
White House
15 years ago, and I, I confess that the origin of this piece is when I would go to the briefing early on in the
Obamaadministration
, the daily press briefing, I found it -- I couldn't imagine trying to work in the
White House
or cover a
White House
in this modern media
environment
, particularly where everything moves so quickly and everything rises to the top every hour, regardless of its importance, just because it's new.

MR. GREGORY:And the question of redistricting as well,
Andrea
, where you've got
House
members who are in increasingly safe districts around the
country
and where there's really not much of a premium put on compromise.

MS. MITCHELL:No premium at all put on compromise. You've never had, not only in the
House
, but particularly in the
Senate
, a group that is less motivated. Because they're worried about the wings -- of primary challenges on their wings, they're less motivated to work in the
middle
. The kind of people that you now see talking about the debt
commission
,
Erskine Bowles
and
Al Simpson
, used to work together and still try to work together. But you don't, in -- and particularly in the
Senate
, have any motivation to try to work on legislative solutions there.

MR. GREGORY:I've got to do two things very quickly. Congressman
Pence
, the issue of
Charlie Rangel
. There does not appear to be a deal that's moving
forward
, and, and there are some reports that
Republicans
want to see an ethics trial go
forward
. What is your view on whether he ought to step down on his seat at this point or pursue a trial?

REP. PENCE:If the allegations against
Charlie Rangel
are true, he should step down from
Congress
. But only
Charlie Rangel
knows if that's the case. We're in the trial phase right now. The opportunity for a settlement when two
Republicans
and two
Democrats
on the subcommittee were examining these charges, it has gone by the boards. And, and I really do believe that we ought to let, let
Charlie Rangel
have his day in court and let the
process work
.

MR. GREGORY:Harold
, there's a lot of pressure on him from the
White House
down. What's the talk up in
New York City
?

REP. FORD:In New York
, he continues to enjoy
support
from big and important quarters. He had a
birthday party
last night, which I
understandMayor Bloomberg
said he was going to attend. I don't know if he did attend or not.

MR. GREGORY:A lot of other supporters did not go.

REP. FORD:And some, some others did not go. I think
Mike
's about right on this. If, if
Charlie Rangel
, whom I've known a very, very long time, wants to have a trial and defend himself, he has every right to do that. We should not ignore the fact this will -- this certainly has a political impact. I think it contributes to the, the, the narrative that people, or that thinking people, have about
Washington
that it's just not working.
And I
can only hope that what -- if it happens that it happens quickly.

MR. GREGORY:Andrea
...

REP. PENCE:Actually, though,
David
, real quickly, on this point of
Washington
not working, the, the, the
problems
of this
administration
are not because of the media, they're not because of lobbyists, they're certainly not because of decisive Republican minorities on
Capitol Hill
. The
problems
of this
administration
is this
administration
and
Democrats
in
Washington
are not listening to the
American people
. On the stimulus, on the
nationalenergy tax
, on
Obamacare
, they have rolled over the will of the
majority
of the
American people
again and again and again.

MR. GREGORY:All right. Well, that's, that's, that's a...

REP. PENCE:And they're -- and now they're blaming the messengers for that.

MR. GREGORY:OK. I want to move on, otherwise that's, obviously, a debatable point to, to, to post around the table. But I do --
Andrea
, I want to talk about
Afghanistan
. Some horrific deaths of
aid workers
, their bodies coming back to
America
just earlier today, including from
Afghanistan
-- excuse me --
Tom Little
, who was a doctor who was working over there. These were
aid workers
who went out in a very dangerous part of the
country
in the
north
and were apparently killed by the
Taliban
. This is a tough story to watch and just underscores how dangerous the
country
is.

MS. MITCHELL:It's horrific, and the fact that the
Taliban
in the
north
felt empowered to go after these workers. Until now, the real threat was in the south, and perhaps the
Taliban
are being pushed
north
, the, the threat is going
north
. The fact is,
Richard Engel
, our own chief foreign correspondent, reported last night on "
Nightly News
" that he talked to Dr.
Karen Woo
, to one of those workers, one of those doctors, and she came to the
NBC
bureau and wanted to bring a camera with her. So it's...

MR. GREGORY:But they thought it was just too dangerous. Yeah.

MS. MITCHELL:And this is exactly what, what
Hillary Clinton
has been trying to do. More civilian projects...

MR. GREGORY:Right.

MS. MITCHELL:...not viable.

MR. GREGORY:All right.
Thank you very much
. We'll leave it there. We'll be right back.

MR. GREGORY:That is all for today. Next Sunday, a special edition of
MEET THE PRESS
from
Afghanistan
.
I will be there
to speak with
General David Petraeus
for his first interview since taking command there. If it's Sunday, it's
MEET THE PRESS
.

First ‘Meet the Press’ photo

December 4, 1947: The earliest photograph in existence of the longest running television program in history. Sen. Robert Taft was the guest on "Meet the Press" that day, less than a month after the program debuted on NBC television at 8 p.m., November 6, 1947. James A. Farley, the former postmaster general and former Democratic National Committee chairman, was the guest on the first broadcast.
(Meet the Press)
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Billy Graham

March 6, 1955: Rev. Billy Graham’s first "Meet the Press" appearance. He tells panelist (and program co-founder) Lawrence Spivak "anything that makes any race feel inferior ... is not only un-American but un-Christian."
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Jackie Robinson

April 14, 1957: Jackie Robinson, the first man to break the racial barrier in Major League Baseball, also becomes the first athlete to appear on "Meet the Press." Robinson joins moderator Lawrence Spivak in a discussion about civil rights and Robinson’s work with the NAACP.
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Eleanor Roosevelt

October 20, 1957: Former First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt in one of her six "Meet the Press" appearances. Here she talks about her trip to the Soviet Union.
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Robert Frost

December 28, 1958: Poet Robert Frost was introduced by moderator Ned Brooks as "the poet of all America. Indeed, it can be said that he is the poet of all mankind." Two years later, Congress awarded Robert Frost a gold medal in recognition of his poetry, saying it enriched the culture of the United States and the philosophy of the world.
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Fidel Castro

April 19, 1959: Cuban Prime Minister Fidel Castro appears on "Meet the Press" during his first visit to the United States since the revolution. Castro was annoyed that permanent panelist and producer Lawrence Spivak would not allow him to smoke cigars in the studio.
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Martin Luthur King Jr.

April 17, 1960: Civil Rights leader Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., pictured here in one of his five "Meet the Press" appearances.
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John F. Kennedy

October 16, 1960: After this interview, then-Senator John F. Kennedy calls Meet the Press the nation's "fifty-first state."
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Jimmy Hoffa

July 9, 1961:This first "Meet the Press" appearance by Teamster president Jimmy Hoffa had to be rescheduled several times due to Hoffa’s string of indictments. After the interview, Hoffa was furious about being asked whether his insistence on dealing only in cash and keeping few records gave the appearance of impropriety.
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Edward Kennedy

March 11, 1962: Edward Kennedy’s first appearance on the program. The potential Senate candidate was coached by his older brother, President John F. Kennedy. President Kennedy and his aide Theodore Sorensen prepared "Teddy" for his “Meet the Press” debut by staging a run through of questions and answers in the Oval Office. On the day of the program, President Kennedy delayed his departure from Palm Beach in order to watch the show, but later told his brother that he was almost too nervous to watch.
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Bob Dole

July 16, 1972: Bob Dole and "Meet the Press" moderator Lawrence Spivak prepare to discuss the break-in and bugging of the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate. Former Senator Dole holds the record for the most appearances on “Meet the Press” in a career that included service as a Congressman, Senator, RNC Chairman, vice presidential candidate, Senate Majority Leader and finally, Republican presidential nominee.
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Prime Minister Wilson

September 19, 1965: "Meet the Press" conducts television’s very first live satellite interview. The guest is British Prime Minister Harold Wilson.
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Ronald Reagan

September 11, 1966: Ronald Reagan, making his first bid for public office, appears on "Meet the Press" with his Democratic opponent for the governorship of California, the incumbent Gov. Edmund G. Brown. Reagan appeared on "Meet the Press" seven times -- all before he was elected president.
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Robert Kennedy

March 17, 1968: Senator Robert F. Kennedy makes his ninth -- and final -- appearance on "Meet the Press" with Lawrence E. Spivak. Kennedy was assassinated in California less than 3 months later -- shortly after claiming victory in that state's Democratic presidential primary. He was 42 years old.
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John Kerry

April 18, 1971: John Kerry, then a former Navy Lieutenant, makes his first "Meet the Press" appearance as a spokesman for Vietnam Veterans Against the War. He has since appeared on the program as a U.S. Senator from Massachusetts 21 times.
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Golda Meir

December 5, 1971: Golda Meir, prime minister of Israel, appears on “Meet the Press” with moderator Bill Monroe to discuss the continuing instability in the Middle East and the prospect of meeting and negotiating with Egypt’s leaders.
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Prime Minister Gandhi

August 24, 1975: Indian Prime Minister Indira Gandhi in one of her seven appearances on "Meet the Press" before her assassination in October 1984. After she was elected Prime Minister in 1966, Gandhi grew more concerned about her television image and contacted "Meet the Press" to request makeup samples used during her appearance on the program. The program’s makeup artist consulted her notes and sent Mrs. Gandhi a complete makeup set -- including sponges and instructions for application.
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Gerald Ford

November 9, 1975: President Gerald Ford becomes the first sitting American president to appear on the program. President Ford accepted the invitation as a tribute to "Meet the Press" co-founder Lawrence Spivak, who was making his farewell appearance as moderator of the program.
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Jimmy Carter

January 20, 1980: In one of the most dramatic newsbreaks in the history of "Meet the Press" President Jimmy Carter announces that the U.S. would boycott the Moscow Summer Olympics because of the presence of Soviet troops in Afghanistan. Despite initial outrage over Carter’s proposal, 60 nations eventually joined the boycott.
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Richard Nixon

April 10, 1988: In his first Sunday interview in 20 years, Former President Richard Nixon reacts to a comment on "Meet the Press.
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Tim Russert's first show

December 8, 1991: Tim Russert makes his debut as moderator of "Meet the Press." He has since become the longest-serving moderator in "Meet the Press" history. In the center of this photo is then-intern Betsy Fischer, who is now Executive Producer of the program.
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Dan Quayle

September 20, 1992: "Meet the Press" permanently expands from a half-hour to a one hour program. Vice President Dan Quayle is the guest.
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Shaheen and Whitman

February 2, 1997: The broadcast breaks television history as "Meet the Press" becomes the first network television program ever to broadcast live in digital high definition. Governors Jeanne Shaheen and Christie Todd Whitman share a light moment on the set that day.
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Bill Clinton

November 9, 1997: President Bill Clinton appears in studio on "Meet the Press" to mark the program’s 50th anniversary.
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Al Gore

December 19, 1999: In a live Democratic presidential debate, Vice President Al Gore challenges former Sen. Bill Bradley to a "Meet the Press agreement" to have weekly debates in place of running political advertisements.
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Dick Cheney

September 16, 2001: Five days after the September 11th attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney joins moderator Tim Russert in the first live television interview ever broadcast from Camp David.
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Senate Debate Series

September 22, 2002: "Meet the Press" kicks off its "Senate Debate Series" with the Colorado Senate race: Republican Incumbent Sen. Wayne Allard vs. Democratic Challenger Tom Strickland. At the end of the election cycle, the series of three senate debates was awarded the prestigious "USC Walter Cronkite Journalism Award" for "Excellence in Broadcast TV Political Journalism." The debate series continued in 2004 and 2006.
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George W. Bush

February 8, 2004: President George W. Bush kicks off his re-election campaign in an Oval Office interview with Tim Russert on "Meet the Press." Robert Novak went on to write about the interview, "no president ever before had been subjected to such tough questioning in the Oval Office."
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James Carville

November 14, 2004: In another "Meet the Press" first, Democratic strategist James Carville cracks an egg on his forehead to demonstrate he's got "egg on his face" after his projected outcome of the U.S. presidential election was wrong. Carville predicted 52 percent of the vote for U.S. Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), 47 percent for President George W. Bush and 1 percent for Ralph Nader.
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Jim Webb

November 19, 2006: The first edition of "Meet the Press" to be available via video netcast on the show’s Web site. U.S. Senator-elect Jim Webb (D-Va.) joins moderator Tim Russert on that program.
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June 15, 2008: The chair of late moderator Tim Russert sits empty on the set during the first MTP taping following Russert's death. He died June 13, 2008 of a heart attack while at the NBC News bureau in Washington. He was 58 years old.
(Alex Wong / Getty Images for Meet the Press)
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President-elect Obama

December 7, 2008: President-elect Barack Obama makes his first Sunday morning television appearance since winning the election to discuss the challenges facing this country and the upcoming transition of power.
(Scott Olson / Getty Images for Meet the Press)
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David Gregory

December 7, 2008: Interim moderator Tom Brokaw announces that David Gregory has been chosen as the new moderator of the show.
(Alex Wong / Getty Images for Meet the Press)
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Rendell, Schwarzenegger & Bloomberg

March 22, 2009: Gov. Ed Rendell (D-Penn.), Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger (R-Calif.) and NYC Mayor Michael Bloomberg appeared exclusively on Meet the Press one day after meeting with President Obama to discuss the economy.
(Brendan Smialowski / Getty Images for Meet the Press)
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Hillary Clinton

July 26, 2009: Secretary of State Hillary Clinton appears for a full-hour on Meet the Press. It's her first appearance on the program since joining the Obama administration.
(William B. Plowman / NBC Universal)
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President Obama

September 20, 2009: President Barack Obama sits down with David Gregory at the White House for Obama's first MTP appearance since taking office.
(Pete Souza / The White House)
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Editor's note:
This image contains graphic content that some viewers may find disturbing.