Hard Core > Fish Friday

It’s too bad that that Lil Kim-Nicki Minaj dis “Black Friday” was such a nonevent. I was hoping Lil Kim would get in that ass, thus leaving Nicki Minaj with no choice but to issue a response, and maybe an epic catfight would ensue, complete with Nicki Minaj getting on Lil Kim for being the worst plastic surgery disaster in hip-hop this side of Kanye West’s mother (just using that as an example…), and Lil Kim getting on Nicki Minaj for having such thundery thighs. It could have been the best beef evar. It’s only a matter of time before the infamous “Remy Ma ate the box” video would have somehow been incorporated into the mix. But, alas, Lil Kim must not be able to afford to pay someone to write her a very good dis song these days. She probably got the lyrics for “Black Friday” from that guy Jesse Stu.

First of all, what’s with naming a dis song “Black Friday,” and then releasing it on Black Friday, so that there’s no confusion as to whether the black Friday in the song’s title is indeed a reference to the day each year when ignorant lower middle class people camp out in front of Best Buy, Wal-Mart, et al. umpteen hours (if not days) before the store opens, for the chance to buy a $400 laptop for $349? I’ll admit, I tried to cop one of those laptops once, a few years ago, and come to find out the store only had like five of them, and you had to have a coupon to buy one of them, and they’d already given the coupons to the first people in line, hours before the store opened. You know good and well those people just sold that shit on eBay for the same markup the store would normally charge, and then used the proceeds to buy methamphetamine. Who else but a tweaker would stand outside in 12 degree weather, for hours on end, just to save $50 on a laptop computer? Depending on how long you stand there, that’s less than you could have made working at the BGM for the same amount of time.

The point being (because I realize it might not be perfectly clear to all of you), in picking that song title, it’s like Lil Kim purposely set out to make herself look like a silly, desperate woman.

I guess she figured she didn’t have any choice in the matter anyway, since this beef with Nicki Minaj was completely uncalled for. It’s not like Nicki Minaj came into the game taking shots at Lil Kim, KRS-One-style, claiming hip-hop started out in Remy Ma’s box, and Lil Wayne is only good for making out with other guys, or whatever the appropriate analogy would be. As I recall, someone once asked her in an interview what she thought of Lil Kim, or something to that effect, and she replied that Lil Kim was an important influence, and that was more or less the extent of their interaction. This is like when that Asher Roth version of Weezer’s “Say It Ain’t So” (the best song evar) was blowing up on iTunes around the same time Eminem was first trying to mount a comeback, before he realized he needed to employ a Lifetime Movie of the Week-caliber redemption story in order to reach people who still buy CDs at this point. Some douche on the Internets was trying to get Eminem to ether Asher Roth once and for all, before he started to spread, even though you know good and well Jimmy Iovine wasn’t about to let that happen, but at least it’s not like Asher Roth had dissed Eminem. He was just trying to encroach on his turf. Eminem is soft these days, but he’s not that soft. Even people who actually own Recovery have a functioning knowledge of the code of the streets. It’s like in that movie Boyz N the Hood: you can’t just let someone disrespect you.

Or who knows, maybe Lil Kim feels that there’s a very legitimate case to be made against Nicki Minaj, and this was just the best way she could make it. It’s not hard to understand where she’s coming from, if you put yourself in her shoes. Imagine if your job paid someone else more money than they pay you to do the exact same job that you do, and they weren’t even as good at mopping floors, or whatever it is you do for a living. I’m not saying that Lil Kim is definitely, objectively better than Nicki Minaj, but I can see how she might think that. For example, Lil Kim’s last album got 5 mics in the Source. Fish Friday is probably not gonna get 5 mics in the Source, unless someone who works there is a lesbian, and Nicki Minaj goes up there and eats the box, trading oral sex for favorable coverage like they used to do, back in the early ’00s, when there was a lot of articles about Nas and 50 Cent. Hmm… What’s more, Lil Kim has one album that’s genuinely enjoyable, and not just by female rap standards. I’ll admit, I used to have a copy of Hard Core, back in the mid ’90s, and I used to crank the shit out of it. Granted, that was obviously Biggie Smalls’ handiwork, while Nicki Minaj (I sincerely hope) writes her own lyrics. But I don’t think a female rapper should get any extra credit for writing her own lyrics, if she’s a lesbian, because her brain obviously works more like a man’s brain.

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Nicki is on fire right now…Lil Kim’s track lacked the required energy and passion required of a “bomb first” battle track. It was, as is the case with this whole “beef”, a desperate attempt at a comback by a washed up/could have been legend.

Lil Kim, grow old gracefully…

fastflipper

finally Bol is back

yeah the beef is just wack ad nobody care

kim is too old and start looking like a female version of MJ

and nicki is hard wack when people talking bout her is about her ass not skillz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnvVJThdk0 these posts are racist

That’s not true homey. How is Nicki wack? The chick has skills, she’s a bona fide, certified Emcee…I mean what is she doing wrong? She spits…admittidley, not the “deepest” most poetic raps, but there’s room in the game for her…i like deep/poetic raps, but I also like stuff I can dance to/cool out to/and just have with…Nicki is what the game’s been missing.

http://www.twitter.com/@blondedraper onedeep

“Nikki is what the game’s been missing.”
Bruh, what are your redeeming qualities as a human? smh

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnvVJThdk0 these posts are racist

What I mean, is that she’s a fresh, beautiful girl who can rap. And she brings a different flavor and style to hip hop. She doesn’t have to rap like a dude, nor does she have to use only her body. She’s like a combo of Kim/Foxy and Missy Elliot with her own unique spin. Listen to her verses on Monster and Bottoms up. She’s a beast.

Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche

TPAR trying to minaj Nicki

Moving Sideways

I listened to her CD this weekend (my woman was in the car, on a turkey day road trip). I like Nicki Minaj, I think she could do something really interesting in the future along the lines of Missy Elliot. She’s already better looking and a better rapper. This Pink Friday album, this shit ain’t it. Watered down will.i.am pop bullshit, if you’re going to be pop at least try and be original.

chillin mayne

this new xxlmag layout is actually dope….lol@…and they werent even as good at mopping floors, or whatever it is you do for a livin”
haaaaaaaaaaaaaa….bol is that nigga

thatpimprod

Omg that Nicki Album was ass. Now compare that to Lil Kim’s release Her first release “Hardcore” that shit was fire. Hell everyone was banging it out loud. Granted Kim got old and weird as fuck and fell the fuck off but there was a lot of steez jacking coming from Nicki and he Young Money associates. But if she wanted black Friday to be relevant she should of had a real producer and some better writing and if you got a DJ saying his name more times than you its not a diss track its a promotion gone bad. Tha Nicki album was some horrible shit. Hell Kim just re-release some old shit mixed in with some new diss tracks and i think you got her handled.

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

there’s BEEN an untagged version up since friday…and ‘Black Friday’ IS relevant, it had the ‘nets on fire the whole weekend…those drops were from a radio show fam.

To me, a diss track is a diss track, no matter what you rhyme over, so long as you have potent jabs at your opponent (Budden & Saigon did it over each others beats)…you don’t see the significance of rhyming over ‘Simon Says’ to a biter…I do.

i wouldn’t have wasted a collab w/Em dissin’ Kim though…

‘Hardcore’>>>>>’Pink Friday’

^ this is fact

cmoney85

Kim went off the deep end and should admit that she got caught up in her feelings like all women do. Minaj, went a minute without even entertaining a diss track but kim kept on pushing it.Regardless of how good or bad the rebutle was I think KIM should just fall back.

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

@ tpar

how is Kim washed up & desperate for a comeback? She was just on Dancing With The Stars (she was exposed to a wider audience that would never listen to rap music). she was just portrayed in a major motion picture. these are large looks. just because she’s not in the public eye like Minaj, or topping the charts doesn’t mean she’s washed up. and let’s not forget that Ray J spoke on this 1st, and people had BEEN saying Nicki jacked Kim’s “swag”…not RHYME STYLE…

worldstarhiphop.com/
videos/video.php?v=wshhV9TmuN511NWyuHDp

^ look at the screen shot and tell me Ray J & Kim ain’t correct…

question: how come Minaj couldn’t do a ‘Ladies Night’ joint like Missy did and get all of the femcees in it? do you agree this would have been a SUPERB look for the “new queen of rap” instead of doing a will.i.am produced track?

@ cmoney

correct me if I’m wrong, but Kim didn’t drop a diss song 1st. Minaj threw a dart in ‘Monster’ and went in on ‘Roman’s’. So let’s stop acting like Kim was the instigator in this event.

congrats to Minaj on her 1st week of sales, and cheers to Kim for striking back.

http://worldstarhiphop.com/ these posts are racist

DM,

Responded twice, it’s not posting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnvVJThdk0 these posts are racist

DM,

I responded, substantively and both times failed to stick. Basically, Kim’s not mad that Nicki is “Jacking” her style. She’s mad that in terms of hip hop, she is “washed up”…in the sense that she’s not as hot as NM is right now…that’s the definition of washed up. She’s bitter. She’s pissed. She wants to be Kim circa ’96.

Kim is way doper than Nicki, no doubt…but this beef is born out of jealousy, not competition and not a resonse to swagger jacking, etc.

Yeah but not for nothin, Kim did start the beef. Not in song, but she was like Fuck Nicki and Fuck Drake months ago… AFTER Nicki said in in the interview respectfully that Kim was an influence. I really think Kim was waitin for Nicki to throw darts so she could respond…

I’m glad Nicki threw a dart though. Makes me gain respect for her because alot of these new cats even though they are making dope music, are scared to battle. Wheres that Wale diss record by Cudi? And don’t say oh but they arent battle rappers, because Common went at Cube and even Nelly threw a dart at KRS back when they were beefin, so I’m glad Minaj threw a shot at Kim on Roman’s Revenge. This is hip-hop, Battles are still part of the essence and the new class needs to remember that.

@ Don McCaine,

So yeah I think Kim was the instigator here homey, even if she didn’t strike first on wax. I don’t think Kim is washed up and Hardcore is without a doubt better than Pink Fridy, but remember Kim’s last album dropped 5 years ago. Thats an eternity in hip-hop. I do think Kim felt a bit threatened by Nicki. Its kinda played out though ll those female rappers had beef, Kim and Foxy, Kim and Remy, Foxy and Jackie O, Foxy and Trina (yawns) It does get a bit repetitive. I would have liked if Nicki did a pose cut on the lbum with Kim, Foxy, Missy, Maybe MC Lyte. Yo-Yo. Latifah if she would do it. Woulda been amzing to get Lauryn Hill on a joint. In any case, the female rappers need unity, they are a dying breed and I woulda prefered a track like that from Nicki as opposed to another girl on girl catfight, just my opinion.

I see you nigga. I did put MC Lyte up in there, check it again. I forgot Antoniette though and Roxanne Shante. Salt n Pepa lol. Oh and that one hit wonder chick Khia. Check Allhiphop, theres an article where she bashes Nicki and Fox. Now THERES a chick that needs to keep her mouth shut lol

Yea and I wanted to see Wale and Cudi go at it on wax too yo instead of bickering like bitches in a magazine. This is hiphop. I think Wale would take Cudi lyrically but Cudi is a better artist overall. His new record is amazing imo. Guess we can just speculate though cause that beef seems to have cooled off without a dart ever being thrown. Damn shame.

Q461

My bad for the double response….

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

I saw it…

Roxanne Shante-’Bite This’ (The Real Roxanne & Sparky D diss)

these posts are racist

Don McCaine,

You right fam…Nicki has to respond…and yes Cudi has to respond as well…I suspect neither will however.

But question, what would it have taken for Kim NOT to have fired off a diss track? Or is this just healthy battling, and therefore…given both Nicki’s and Kim’s positions in the game, it had to be?

Q461

@tpar

I could see Nicki responding….I could also see Wale firing shots at Cudi, maybe to try and re-establish a buzz…but by then everyone will have forgotten about their beef.

As far as your question, I think yeah its just hip-hop and healthy battling, but women always seem to be more catty and in hip-hop its no different. In Kim’s eyes Nicki is her, 10 years ago and like Nicki said shes mad she took her spot. Unity amongst female rappers has always been pretty rare, I can only think of a few exceptions, that Ladies Night remix (yall remember Angie Martinez was rapping then?) and Queen Latifah with Monie Love on Ladies First. Ohhh and there is a remix of Brandy’s I wanna be down that a few women mcs on it. Other than that, just alot of petty beefs.

@ Don mcCaine
Roxanne Shante was ill for that time period. I knew I forgot a few Monie Love and Left Eye rip.

As far as beefs, I don’t think I’m alone in this. I’m a dude that loves hiphop both old school and new school, but I think if these new dudes are going to rep hip-hop for the new generation,,, I wanna see some healthy competition. I wanna see Wiz, Curren$y, Cudi, Jay Elec, J-Cole, Drake, Wale, Asher, B.o.B, Nicki, KRIT, Yelawolf, Diggy,Freddie Gibbs, Blu, BATTLE. Now I know not all of em will, but let me see something. I think battling is a big part of hip-hop, as fans we love to see it. I think somewhere down the line, we got sick of 50 beefin with everybody but it shouldn’t be everyone just ignoring niggaz like Hov eithier. Those are two different extremes and I know that all those cats are still young in the game and they got time to get into beefs and battle one another as well as older MC’s, but so far all l’ve seen is Drake ignore cats, and Wale and Cudi talk shit in magazines. I just hope ignoring MC’s isnt a new trend. It’s ok if your Em or Jay and already proved yourself, but new cats gotta show and prove. Even Soulja Boy answered Ice-T, Nelly answered KRS, and Chingy answered Nelly and Luda. Niggaz gotta man up holla if yall hear what I’m sayin…..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USnvVJThdk0 these posts are racist

Don/Q461:

It also seems to be a Young Money/Lil Wayne thing to not respond…Im sure her camp is advising her to stay quite…but she needs to respond, especially since she did in an interview prior to this diss coming out.

Nicki did raise an interesting point. She acknowledged the fact that she is inspired by and emulates Kim, and made the observation that this kind of stuff is not an issue amongst white female artists. She cited Lady Gaga to Madonna…and pointed out how ridiculous (no Swizz Beats) it would be if Madonna came out against Gaga’s blatant emulating of her…

Just something to consider.

Also, Don, what you think of the few tracks I got up homey?

Q461

@ tpar

this is true. Wayne doesnt really take bait eithier, although I think he could slay some niggaz. I think she gotta respond though… Romans was kinda just a warmup….

I do hear what shes saying about Madonna, Gaga etc and shes right. Artists do need to support each other more, thats why collabos can be even doper than a good battle. But all in all, pop artists dont diss each other all that much anyways and hip-hop is a competitive sport. Nicki’s got a foot in the pop world anyways so maybe thats what she expects.

How much did she sell anyways? Gold in the first week? Thats pretty impressive if she did. If she puts out the songs with Kanye and Drake as singles she’ll def go platinum. Kanye is another like Weezy who just ignores the bait. Woulda been cool if he went at Cam and Jimmy a few months back after they talked shit. My money would be on Kanye…

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

“what would it have taken for Kim NOT to have fired off a diss track”

^ IMHO, if Minaj didn’t do ‘Roman’s’ and then go to her/their hometown and talk smack about Kim on the radio, Kim wouldn’t have done anything. Angie Martinez pretty much baited Nicki (pointing to Q’s assessment above that Angie was on LN).

Keeping it 100, the US is a competitive country. How do we compete in sports, politics, media and all yet hold hands in rap? Somebody gotta go @ Drake or ALL of them come off Cottonelle soft. Rza been telling cats the Wu used to compete for who would be on what track.

“made the observation that this kind of stuff is not an issue amongst white female artists”

Don, you earn the title Don. Thanks for teaching homey…and so to the extent my comments differ from your last comment, please consider this my change in opinion. Appreciate the lessons…

And as always, it’s been a pleasure choppin’ it up.

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

no doubt homie. this is the XXL I remember…

@ Q

@ Q

I think Cam & Jimmy will hurt Kanye’s heart on some we used to buy you chicken wings and fried rice when Jay used to pay you no mind type of diss…

1

Q461

Nahh man I know all those artists and other celebs have thrown darts and stuff but you know it ain’t the same…Marvin Gaye wasn’t going to try and get a buzz for his album by writing an ether for Smokey on his album lol….I know what you are sayin dog but it is a bit different in rap…..Hip-hop is more like boxing like 50 says, he trains to go against the competition. KRS said he writes a rhyme for the top 10 of Billboard every year, just to be prepared. I don’t think Nsync was in the lab writing diss tracks for the Backstreet Boyz LMAO….. but I see your point.

“cats are just petrified they will end up like BIG & Pac”

I hope for hip-hops sake thats not true, I know it was for awhile, but I think Jay and Nas proved a beef can be historic and just kept on wax and hopefully broke that perception.

”Keeping it 100, the US is a competitive country. How do we compete in sports, politics, media and all yet hold hands in rap? Somebody gotta go @ Drake or ALL of them come off Cottonelle soft. Rza been telling cats the Wu used to compete for who would be on what track.”

Co-sign to the fullest dog. Besides I think Drake has what it takes to battle, I mean, cats can throw plenty of pop shots( wheelchair jimmy, half jewish, canadian, sucker for love, homo lol) but Drake can spit…it would add a whole different side to him if he went head to head with say Cudi or Wale or someone.

And yup Wu-tang used to compete to see who would be on each track. They had to! They had 9 of them niggaz at that the time…..Which is why I was really disappointed how Meth reacted to Joe Buddens…. Imo he was a bitch about it….him and Ed lover, Busta and Red all whining about Meths legendary status and shit.and how Joey didnt have the right…..I was shocked that Meth didnt go at Joey but instead had Deck do his dirty work for him and Rae snuffed dude. I lost alot of respect for Meth during that shit. What are yall thoughts about that shit?

Q461

@ Don McCaine

lol you had a nigga rollin with that chicken wings and rice shit….but yeah I mean i fuck with cam and jimmy,….. but look how good lyrically kanye has progressed….. my whole is point is we never seen dude battle…..maybe he would drop some crazy shit….

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

“it would add a whole different side to him if he went head to head with say Cudi or Wale or someone.”

As for Budden/Meth…yeah I feel the same way about it. Meth should have hit the booth (although Budden may have ate his food). But that scenario reminds me of some hood sh^t…you get into some sh^t with a cat who has a big family, there’s a good chance you’re gonna have to fight most of them…or all of them. Then Budden goes and doesn’t respond to Lil’ B…the little cat on the block.

it seems to be popular opinion that kim is better than nicki lyrically or whatever. i have to disagree.

while hardcore and la bella mafia were both tough, are we just going to completely ignore the fact that BIG and/or the LOX and/or Maino wrote everything (decent) that Kim ever spit??

also.. Nicki has made it very clear that she wants to be a POP artist. i can’t recall specific interviews but i definitely recall reading somewhere where Nicki said her aspirations are greater than rap. kim has always just been a rapper. so it’s kind of unfair to say hardcore is so much better than pink friday, cause really nicki didn’t make her album for us, she made it for girls who sprinkle a little rap in with their dance and r&b records.

it’s important to judge artists against their goals. lil kim, even down to her name, was designed (by BIG and Puff) to be a female version of BIG. that’s why you like Hardcore so much more than Pink Friday.

http://www.bboycult.com Don mcCaine

yoprince…whaddup?

“it seems to be popular opinion that kim is better than nicki lyrically or whatever”

^ Listening to both of the albums, I will agree with the sentiment that ‘Hardcore’ is better than PF. Strictly off the quality of the project, not the intangibles, because I can say most of the stuff Snoop (D.O.C. & Kurupt) & Dre (same plus Jay, TI, Em, and others) spit was ghostwritten, but I don’t hold that against them. Same with Puff (BIG, Mase, etc). If it’s a banger, it’s a banger.

“Nicki has made it very clear that she wants to be a POP artist”

^ but until she fully sings on every song w/o a rap verse, collabos included, she will be considered a rapper.

PF is not a good album, there are hella holes and weaknesses on it, ‘Roman’s’ is arguably the best cut on there. What she does did not translate to the album and the music. even Pitchfork (although it may not matter, but good for reference purposes) gave it a 6, while they gave Curren$y’s ‘Pilot Talk 2′ an 8 (PT2 is hot yo).

Pop aspirations included, PF doesn’t even come close to BEP’s last CD, and will.i.am’s on PF. Maybe next time she will do better sans the sophomore jinx mantra. But if we’re gonna stick with this Nicki is the new Queen of Hip Hop, she didn’t bring it like Kim did then.

‘No Time’-Lil’ Kim>’Massive Attack’-Nicki Minaj

and I fUx with techno/house/club music

and I agree XXL should add a “last” toggle on the comment boards.

yoprince

also XXL, if you’re only going to show 10 comments per page or whatever it is, then you need to add a toggle option for “show newer comments first” ala nymag.com.

caino

Good discussion going on here.

As with Nikki and Kim l think we can all agree:
Kim 1996 >>>>> Nikki 2010

but in 2010 Nikki is on top. l also think Nikki has gone out to show she is a Pop Hiphop act like what the Black Eye Peas are, its where the monies at, but by spitting hard on tracks like Monster she is proving a point that she can mix it if she wants annd come hard (no eat my box).

In general now no one seems to really battle and l think we are a bit poorer for that. Meth should have came out at Buddens, but like DM said Budd’s could of murked him. We need more rappers to challenge each other…….this is a contact sport after all. Or is coming out on bottom to much to come back from?

goatmouth

Let me try to wrap my head around this. Lil Kim is mad because she thinks that she is the one and only rapping slut? She believes in her heart that she is the only woman in hip hop that sucks dick and eat pussy? Kim does not have the market cornered on being nasty. She might have the market cornered on looking nasty, sweaty, pale and or bloated.
As far as Nicky goes, she should concentrate on saving as much of that yung money as possible because there will be a new plastic rap slut next year! Both of these broads can eat a bowl of stiff cocks Yonkers Joe style.