Punitive Immigration Laws Seem Likely To Expand

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The U.S. Supreme Court seems inclined to back at least a portion of Arizona’s xenophobic immigration law, which countenances racial profiling. Even Justice Sonia Sotomayor, a member of the court’s liberal wing and its first Hispanic, signaled to the Obama administration, which has opposed the law, that its arguments were “not selling very well,” according to The New York Times.

That’s too bad. Several states that rushed to copy Arizona’s terrible example, including Georgia and Alabama, need to be rescued from their bigotry. Actually, the entire nation needs a respite from the fevered anti-immigrant sentiment that has gripped some of its regions.

According to a new report from the Pew Research Center, the tide of immigration from Mexico that changed the face of many U.S. cities and towns over the last 15 or so years has come to a halt — or perhaps reversed. Pew says that several factors, including the Great Recession and increased border enforcement, significantly decreased the flow of undocumented workers over the southern border.

But the mean-spirited and frequently self-defeating statutes that have flowed from GOP-dominated assemblies show no signs of abating. Legislatures keep voting to keep illegal immigrants out of college, out of decent housing and away from the economic mainstream.

In 2010, Arizona leapt to the front lines of the nation’s immigration wars with a harsh statute that, among other things, requires local police agents to check the immigration status of anyone they “suspect” is in the country illegally. That begs for the sort of profiling by surname and skin color that turns the U.S. Constitution on its head.

(Oddly, the Obama administration decided not to tackle the law on that basis, choosing instead to portray Arizona as infringing on federal turf by enacting its own immigration law. Should the high court uphold the law, opponents may still challenge it on the grounds of racial unfairness.)

But the protests, boycotts and widespread condemnation from immigration advocates that greeted Arizona’s actions did nothing to deter the nativists in other states who wanted to take the same approach. Actually, the controversy seemed to cheer some ultraconservatives, who were itching to prove they wouldn’t back down.

186 responses to “Punitive Immigration Laws Seem Likely To Expand”

Oh, yes, let’s not only stop all immigration, let’s cut down on this rapidly expanding population by allowing no more than 1 (one) child per family. And then gradually cut back to no children. No Immigrants. No Kids. In just a few years we will have a utopian society.

If you looked into it, metro, you’d notice that US popultion would have stabilized on its own in 1973. Immigration has led to the insanity we have now, along with the terrible degradation of the environment.

Stabilized population becomes declining population and declining population becomes elderly population. The influx of younger people who come here for the sole purpose of working helps counter the population age imbalance.

Well, it’s a good argument, Jane, which is probably what has stirred up the “Quiver Full” movement, and the fight against abortion. But a stabilized population doesn’t need to become either declining or elderly. What is needed is an immigration policy that takes care of the needs of the country instead of absorbing hordes of people from third-world populations who become burdens on the tax payers, like the US is doing now.

What are the needs of the country? Do we need an influx of well-educated and skilled workers from other countries to come do our jobs so we can be the third-world population? I am not convinced that they are such a burden on tax payers. You seem to assume that all illegal immigrants are working at jobs where they are paid “under the table”. This is far from the truth. Granted, they may be using false SS numbers but the majority are paying into Social Security and Medicare and will never take anything out. You are right about current efforts to encourage population growth but the real purpose is to encourage white population growth. I suspect that you are a Republican and should know that the GOP is 90% white. They fear being outnumbered and rightly so. This has prompted the anti-immigration laws. Here in Alabama that is no secret and the co-author and sponsor of our tough law has also been caught on tape plotting to discourage black voters. The Southern Strategy obviously still works.

Actually, I’m registered “Green.” I have equal disdain for both Repulicans and Democrats. The needs of the country will change, so immigration measures will adapt to those needs. Most illegal immigrants are a huge drain on the economy. Think in terms of the giant hit to public education. We now have public school teachers trying to saddle their neighbors with the cost of supporting illegals in the community so the numbers of students will not diminish in their districts, which would shrink their budgets. What a sad commentary that is. For the most part, illegal immigrants are not black, so your last comment doesn’t make a lot of sense. But now that they are uncovering massive voter fraud in a number of states, the need for voter ID has become pretty obvious, if that’s what you mean.

What crap, no one has uncovered massive voter fraud in any state. The Republicans that have initiated these “voter laws” have never shown proof of unusual voter fraud. It is just a law designed to disenfranchise Democratic voters.

Let’s see, there are the four Democrats that have been arrested in Indiana. They’ve discovered that Coleman actually won the Senate race in Indiana, and all the Acorn stuff in Ohio and Nevada. The list is endless, now that they’ve finally started looking for it.

I am an old white gal but I live in Alabama. If everyone here knew my opinions I might not be tarred and feathered but none of my so-called friends and a lot of my family would never speak to me again. I am a closet liberal in the Heart of Dixie. We both seem to be captives.

I’m not in the closet. I relieve my boredom by antagonizing my Arizona right-wing neighbors. Unfortunately, my brother and I are the only left-leaning members of our family, so sometimes family reunions get a little tense. Lucky for me, most of them live in Minnesota.

Human migration is the real enemy here. By allowing people to move from areas that are already overpopulated to areas that are not quite yet overpopulated, we are ensuring that the entire planet will quickly become overpopulated. The answer, of course, is to clamp down on random migration and intorduce family planning measures to the overpopulated populations.

I have but just one question and I am not a bigot. Did or does the study identify whether or not the influcks of illegal imagrants put a positive or negative affect on state resources ? If I as a tax payer had/have to subsidise their health care and/or their childrens education , I would not be inclined to relaxe the states rights to impose strict illegal imagration efforts however, if this is not the case , live and let live. Now can someone provide facts to support my question please. Please excuse my spelling , I’ve had a late night working.

SaneJane – what’s to control? Can you be serious? First of all I question your statistic but even if you are correct about negative immigration, how about terrorism? Would you care to know if some radical Islamist is waltzing into California with a dirty bomb? Is there anything that does not boil down to race alone with you? Calling you “SaneJane” is like calling Jeffrey Dahmer a vegetarian.

I read these statistics just yesterday and I will try to locate the article so you can see for yourself. I was primarily responding to the premise that we need to barricade our borders to stop the flow of illegal immigrant workers. According to articles and statistics I have been reading for months there are fewer immigrants entering the US via Mexico than there are leaving. Did I mention race? I don’t think so. I did not think I was taking part in a discussion about terrorist. You are free to call me anything you wish as that reflects more upon you than it does me.

Jnap – you have a lot of nerve suggesting that anyone find “an argument” after that irrational non sequitur. Because the 9/11 terrorists “came here legally” therefor we should make it easy for terrorists to enter the country with hardware? Your initial comment is incorrect anyway because they were NOT here legally. They had over stayed their visas and if we had an immigration agency that actually did their job they would not have been here but of course we would not want to offend CAIR.

“Leaving the country with an ethnic balance with which they are more comfortable”?

It’s comments like this that is the reason the Democrats experienced a blood bath last November and the reason that many rational moderates have tuned out the far left altogether.

Nobody doubts that there are still plenty of racists among us but there are also many legitimate negative impacts to having, at the very most soft peddled figures, 30,000,000 illegals in our work force.

Cesar Chavez knew he could never organize UFW workers as long as there was an eternal exodus of impoverished migrants willing to work for less and less and so he lent his UFW organizers to immigration to help patrol the border. You leftists celebrate his birthday but make a mockery of his wisdom.

At Ellis Island, immigrants entering America were screened for diseases. Did you know that illegals entering the country bring diseases that were all but eradicated but are making a comeback? According to the CDC, some are resistant to treatment and include hepatitis, tuberculosis and that old favorite syphilis, just to name a few. As a result of illegal labor, spinach is more dangerous than marijuana.

To portray this as a purely ethnic issue is simply ignorant and I have come to expect nothing less from the biased and brainwashed stereotypical leftists who write for this rag.

“Did you know that illegals entering the country bring diseases . . .”

You mean like the early colonists brought diseases that the native Americans had no immunity from, such as smallpox, etc.? I wonder if the original residents now wish they had instituted anti-immigration laws. “30,000,000 illegals in our work force?” Where did you get that figure? Can you cite your source? Cesar Chavez sent is organizers to the border to stop an eternal exodus of impoverished migrants? If he was preventing an exodus you should have been opposed to him. Isn’t that what you want? Do you know what you want? From your post, I sure don’t know what you want.

You still haven’t explained anything or answered any question. Just spouting a bunch of your own irrational knee-jerk reactions with nothing to back up what you say. That may be because you have nothing to say, you’re just repeating what you heard someone else say. That doesn’t work with everyone. If you want to preface your remarks with “In my opinion,” OK. Don’t try to foist off your opinions as facts. You can’t bullshit your way through every argument.

If you believe ANYTHING I posted to be “devolved” would you care to point out one single fact that you contest? One of the “cut and pastes” was from a published letter than I myself authored and the other was from a gentlemen named Hanson and I gave him credit and posted the link. Nice try though and it spared you having to actually debate an issue while allowing you the signature liberal vapid insult.

Then why waste you time? If you think you will convert us biased brainwashed stereotypical leftists with your wordy revelations then I know you are wasting your time. Also, I cleanse my spinach by washing and my marijuana by burning.

Simple fact, Cynthia, the states would not be enacting those laws if the Federal government was doing it’s job of enforcing United States law. The current campaign of stopping the use of the word ‘illegal’ when referencing immigrants who have entered this country illegally is one of the ludicrous campaigns ever conceived. How about referring to murderers as ‘population control specialists’?

More agents on the border than before. More deportations than ever before. Fewer and fewer folks crossing over the border than in decades. The number of illegals being found each day is dramatic. In the Nogales the number of 50 is way down from the 500 just a couple of years ago. Please provide a list of the laws that you feel the Federal government is not enforcing. Also I’m not familiar with this campaign to stop using the term ‘illegal’ that you refer too. Can you flesh out that comment for us?

Lynda, montanabill may be referring to the practice of using the term “illegals” when referring to illegal immigrants for the purpose of demonizing and dehumanizing them. It is common practice here in Alabama and is promoted in the Republican playbook.

There is the Federal immigration law written many years ago that prohibits the hiring of illegals for work in the US, however I believe that it is the States responsibility to enforce this law. I’d be willing to bet that the States writing all these laws that target the Hispanic Community are the same ones that chose to IGNORE the Federal Law these many years, now they have a problem.

Well, not that marijuana is dangerous, but if there is such a concern about all of the various labor and health risks associated with illegal immigration, then lets FIX IT, for Christ’s sake. All people do is bitch about this problem but nobody is offering a path to legal immigration for these people that’s practicable and doesn’t take 400 god damned years. You see, you are really bigots. I can’t help but to think that’s exactly what is at bottom here. The truth is you are all immigrants and nobody has some special birth right to be here.

But honestly, who the hell would want to come to a country of such hateful, mean spirited and nasty people who have become a bunch of legal fanatics and extremists. This isn’t even a free country anymore. It’s no wonder Mexicans don’t want to come here anymore. This place is rank.

The illegals sneak into this country and all you want to do is provide them with a “path to legal immigration.” There already is a “path to legal immigration” dumbo, but they chose to avoid it. To hell with them. Put them into work camps. Offer them deportation as the only way out.

Identify them and if they return, put them in the work camps for the rest of their lives.

Work camps…really? Sounds a lot like gulags of Soviet Russia and the so-called work camps during the Third Reich. Put them into work camps for the rest of their lives…I suppose you would prefer we suspend the right to a trial before tossing away the key as well.

Right wing and Reich wing sounds a lot alike. I’m getting so bored of Republicans and their hypocracy, lieing FOX 666News and childish name calling, stereotyping…whatever, for what? RATINGS! POWER! GREED! There’s so many shows about Hilter on TV every day, 365! It seems some people are infatuated with the madman. Right! Work Camps are the answer………..somewhere………but not in America!

In the case of Illegals breaking our immigration Laws and “invading” our Country I agree with CPANY except -give them an option. They can leave and never return excep legally. Then if they do return illegally let them spend a few years doing some good constructive HARD time in our local jails.

GOOD, maybe if they know we don’t want them here and we make it enough hell, they will leave and go back and never want to come back here ever again!! That would make millions of us VERY HAPPY!!! And we are NOT bigoted, nor hateful, we just don’t like scumsuckers and leeches!! If you like the the lousy cockroaches so much and hate it here, why don’t you move with them? I doubt you’d be missed.

” we are NOT bigoted, nor hateful, we just don’t like scumsuckers and leeches!! ” That’s why we make it so easy for them – The vast majority of farm workers are from Mexico and Central America where conditions of extreme poverty drives people to suffer the hardships of American farms in silence. The average annual income of farm workers is between $7,000.00 and $8,000.00. This is lowest of all wage and salary workers in the US. After mining, farming is the second most dangerous occupation in the US.

No matter how many times that Romney flips and flops over immigration, some republican govenor will place the issue back on the news with a draconian law. Then Romney will be asked if he supports it or not, which holds true for womens health issues as well. Then we can watch him wriggle like a fish out of water trying to come somewhere in the middle. Republicans are doing their best to drive Latinos away from them at a time when Mitt needs every one of them. They are seen more and more as a party of angry people against anyone that isn’t them.

If Ms. Tucker is supposed to be “reporting”, not “editorializing”, she failed. Reporting puts some obligation on the reporter to balance the story by presenting both sides. She didn’t. She completely ignores the fact that a large majority of Americans want the borders to be secured and the immigration laws to be enforced.

The ” large majority of Americans” have been MISLEAD into believing that border security is the problem. The REAL problem is the illegal hiring practices of some American Companies and American People. It is my contention that NO JOBS = NO ILLEGAL ALIENS , border security is not a factor in this case.

One needs to be pragmatic. Let’s say there are large numbers of illegals in this country, the vast majority just want a better life. Sincerely, get rid of the criminals, increase your border security, but for the remainder who are already here, put them on a path where they pay taxes, social security, buy or rent houses & have their health checked. In addition, employers would have to pay at least the minimum wage. You cannot breed or tolerate a sub-society – it doesn’t work. A lot of America’s financial issues would certainly be on the right track for the future.

I have a great idea. Why don’t people like you quit your “skilled” job and take all the jobs that require minimally educated, unskilled jerks. Then they won’t come here because all the jobs they qualify for would be taken.

Issue Federal green cards to the illegal workers needed for the the jobs that “Americans will not do” and then they will no longer be illegal nor will they be taken advantage of. The government will know who is in the country and why. They will pay their taxes and be paid at least minimum wage. And when their job is complete they can apply for another job or return to their home country. They will be able to go back and forth as the jobs and their personal goals coincide. If they wish to become a US citizen they can apply via the proper channel. Why this is so difficult for everyone brings to mind the saying based on Biblical verse, “There are non so blind as those who refuse to see”.

Now that Cecil sounds like a good idea! But do you honestly think any of our politicians have any brains to do something “pragmatic?!” This is something that should have been done 20 years ago when they started invading this country, before they became an infestation. What you recommend makes FAR too much sense for any of our politicians to adopt!! They’d rather see this country in complete ruin, since it won’t effect them sitting in their “Ivory towers,” just those of us at ground zero, who pay all the taxes and have to work for a living!!!

Your comment makes perfect sense except for this part ” started invading this country ” I think being LURED here would be a more accurate description of the reason they come here. You see certain people promise them work and more money than they are used to getting, all they have to do is sneak across the border.

Good idea, but the employers hire these people because they can get away with underpaying these people, they do not have to provide insurance or pay taxes for them. Your idea would defeat their purposes so I doubt if they would give it much support.

Quit “their” skilled jobs! So many are laid off right now it isn’t even funny! And as automation takes over more and more of the “skilled” labor jobs, the invaders can walk right in and take the rest of what’s left, is that it? People like you should keep your mouths shut, when you have no clue as to what you are even talking about!! Those invaders are taking jobs away from AMERICAN CITIZENS in the meat packing houses, and the manufactoring plants!! That’s “unskilled” labor that many AMERICANS work at and make a living at! I personally live in a state where 85% to 95% of the workforce in all the Meat Packing plants in this area are filled by ILLEGAL scum. CITIZENS can’t get a job in those plants because there are NO openings, they are all filled by illegal invaders. Getting the picture yet!!! All I can say is, GO ARIZONA, we’re right behind you all the way!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Perhaps your mouth is too big for your brain. Perhaps YOU don’t know what you’re talking about. The largest meat packing plant on EARTH is located near me. And, yes there are mexicans working there, also whites and blacks. In nearly equal proportion. Periodically they are raided and the illegals are arrested and de4ported. Perhaps your immigration authorities don’t do their jobs. AND, perhaps you are confusing illegal and legal and just lumping all the hispanics together.

Afraid your wrong. In this part of country the ratio is 10 to one, and the majority is illegal because I have several LEGAL (citizen) Mexican friends that are just as angry about it as the whites are! They hate the bad name the illegals are giving them!!! They want them gone too!!

It wouldn’t be possible for an illegal alien to take an Americans job from them if the law was ENFORCED. The LAW PASSED IN 1952, that makes it ILLEGAL to hire an illegal alien. I’m over 60 years old and I have NEVER filled out an application that didn’t ask, CAN YOU LEGALLY WORK IN THIS COUNTRY? Arizona’s Employers were breaking the law, while Arizona’s law enforcement officials were looking the other way. I am not behind a State who’s officials are the root cause of the immigration problems we face today. Especially, when to gain the support of people like yourself, they make a big public showing of them fixing a problem they themselves created.

That is my point. There are a lot of people complaining that immigrants (I think many times they don’t know if they are legal or illegal) are taking their jobs. However there are a lot of jobs out there that those immigrants will do but those complaining the loudest wouldn’t do. I see Mexican workers in fields in the hot sun planting tobacco, picking weevils off cotton plants, detasseling corn, picking cucumbers – backbreaking labor intensive jobs that Americans will not do and yet those same Americans are screaming that they don’t have jobs and the immigrants are taking them. Some of the unemployed don’t want those kinds of jobs – they want to have a job where they don’t have to do the hard labor. When my children were young and I got divorced, I worked I worked Tuesday thru Friday from 5 to 9 PM, Saturday from 9AM to 9 PM and Sunday from 9AM to 5 PM and my day off was Monday. This was to be called a full time worker to get more pay. It wasn’t a hard labor job, but it wasn’t easy. Many times I skipped meals to have more for my kids. Then I got a better job in an office paying more and saw that I could do even better if I went to school, so I went to college. And then I worked M-F 8 AM to 5PM and 3 nights a week went to school from 6PM to 11 PM. Again not hard labor, but a lot of hours. I was willing to do everything possible to better myself. A lot of people today want it handed to them. They don’t want to work hard or long hours but they DO want to complain when someone else is willing and has a job.

Kudos to you and what you did when the chips were down. That should be the American Way. Do we have people here who are just to lazy to work? Yes we do. Why? Beacause of our overly expanded and laxly overseen assistance programs. Why should these people work when it is so simple and easy to get food stamps, welfare, ADC, free medicla at District clinics and so on. The answer is not to allow our country to be overrun by illegal. The answer is to return to the day of control over assistance programs and the re-institution of the “Green Card” type program used in the 40’s and 50’s where foreigners registered to be allowed in this Country ot work. Where they were monitored and paid taxes etc. But that would be too simple for our modern day Government of the last 50 years. People such as yourself should have been applauded and every effort made to help you get back on your feet in the economic world. But we don’t need programs for deadbeats. I believe ,barring physical or mental cases – if one doesn’t work then one doesn’t eat. See how fast your harvest time shortage disappears then.

I’ve been all over the world and I find that most Americans are among the hardest working people there is. There are many reasons that people find themselves unable to work, and I strongly RESENT anyone who ASSUMES that just because a person isn’t working that they’re a deadbeat. THAT SIMPLY JUST ISN’T TRUE.

Charlie, That was not the content nor the intent of the message. The majority of Americans are resourceful and hard working.There are those that have lost their jobs and haven’t secured employment. There are those that physically or infirm and cannot function in a work force environment. These are the persons our System was set up to help in time of need. Then there is an element of our Society with no physical or mental disabilities or anything else that prevents them from working but these individuals will milk the system any way possible to get Government money so as to avoid working. I referenced a couple in their early thirties that have never been gainfully employed for more than a month or so in any job and neither has worked anywhere in the past five years. They milk the systme, they are deadbeats. They live apart, she with her parents and he with his 80 year old Grandmother. They both receive food stamps, she gets ADC payments. both children were born and the public paid for it. They use the District Clinic for medical problems. He draws $600.00 monthly from Medicare for some type of disorder. All of this money is spent within two days on drugs. The drug of choice being hydrocodone bought illegally on the street. To top it off, this couple “sold” their babies names to a stranger so that person could claim them on their Income Tax Return as dependents in return for a total of $600.00. Thus far the IRS has not acted on this case although they do say this is not an isolated incident. These are the “deadbeats” of which I speak. The Government Agencies need to have more stringent requirements in order to qualify for Government assistance and close loopholes in our existing programs. Deny Aid to this portion of our Society and use the programs as originall intended for those truly in need through no fault of their own. I once drew unemployment compensation due to cutbacks during a recession. It’s affects one emotionally and psychologically. I ended up moving to another City 350 miles away solely for a job. A good move as I retired from that job after 39 years service. Thats’s what our system is intended to do – help those in need until they get back on their feet. It is not a lifetime assistance program for ones like the couple I referenced of which there are thousands more just like them that bleed the system.

The pay is not $2 or $3 per hour. It isn’t much, but I know it’s more than that. And, no, I wouldn’t, especially not at my age. However, When I was working all those hours I did it because the total qualified me as a full time worker and brought my hourly pay from $1.10 to $1.20 per hour. Then I got a good job paying $3.65 per hour. Of course, that was back in the 70’s.

“The reported average hourly wage of farm workers nationally is about $6.17, which is 7 per cent less than in 1977, after inflation (New York Times) (However, many farm worker advocates contend that this figure is very misleading and is actually much lower. Farm workers work as many as 12 to 14 hours per day, but a workday of 8 hours is used to calculate the hourly wage.)” If you calculate their wages by the TRUE amount of time worked. it comes out to a LITTLE MORE than $3.00 per hr.

As opposed to “$7.25/hour The current Federal Minimum Wage is $7.25 per hour. If the state minimum wage in your state is higher, you are entitled to be paid the higher minimum wage rate.”

“Low wages and harsh working conditions are the major causes of the wide range of social ills that affect migrant farm workers and their families. The vast majority of farm workers are from Mexico and Central America where conditions of extreme poverty drives people to suffer the hardships of American farms in silence. The average annual income of farm workers is between $7,000.00 and $8,000.00. This is lowest of all wage and salary workers in the US. After mining, farming is the second most dangerous occupation in the US. Poor sanitation, hazardous working conditions, pesticide exposure and poisoning and a lack of health care result in the situation where the life expectancy of farm workers is 49 years (25 years below the national average) and where infant mortality rates in that population is 125 per cent higher than in the general population”

Lovely arguement about wages, Charlie. I agree MIGRANT farm workers are treated pretty badly. However, to be fair, since you claim the $6.17/hour is really $3.00 because they use 8 hours to calculate when they really work 12 to 14 hours may be somewhat true. BUT – /those farm workers aren’t even here in the w1nter, let alone working. They go back to Mexico (sic). So, in reality that $7,000 to $8,000 annual wage is based on 6 months of work, not 12 which really comes out to $14,000 to $16,000 per year. And believe me, they do go home in off season – there are 2 places in the town I’m in right now that run busses to Mexico and back a couple of times a week. They are run by Mexicans and also double as a store/eatery. This is NC, big, big farming industry here. I don’t have a solution. No, that kind of money is below poverty and I feel sorry for anyone who tries to live on it. But I really think if illegals were not here, the legal immigrants from any country would have it better. The illegals work for substandard wages in substandard conditions because they are afraid to be deported. It is because we do have illegals that these conditions persist – because they aren’t complaining.

Charlie, I have absolutely nothing against Mexicans. My ex husband was 1/2 Mexican and 1/4 Spanish and 1/4 English (England). I, in fact, abhor bigotry and hatred toward any race or ethnic group. No itg is not right to pay low wages and supply substandard housing and sanitation to Mexican workers. If they came into this country legally and stood up to the farmers, etc. who tried to cheat them then things would be different too. It is the ones who come here illegally who take the low pay jobs, poor housing, etc. and on’t complain, mainly because they are afraid to be deported. I have a friend – he and his wife and children are from Vera Cruz, Mexico. They are here legally. He is an engineer his wife is a teacher who is studying the English language so she can get teaching credentials. Their 2 children are in 6th and 8 th grades. They are doing quite well. He even made a remark to me once that the Mexicans who come over here illegally are mostly considered lower class in Mexico.

Farm work, is Hard work. I for one will not do it for minimum wage. That’s why they were ILLEGALLY hiring the Mexicans for even less. If you want American workers you have to pay them decent wages. If the pay is right Americans will work as hard as anybody.

So it’s all about the money, the American god. Keep in mind they’re not paying minimum wage because congress exempted them. Also, if you’re unemployed and could make more picking apples. why wouldn’t you? Because you think it’s too hard and maybe too demeaning. Sorry. Try again with excuses

From your writing it sounds as though you may be one of those deep South nostalgics that still wander around in the melancholy Antebellum South lamenting the “Lost Cause” after the Northern Invasion. Longing for the olden days of poverty white Day Laborers and good loving dependable slaves. Your farmers can d sure pay a decent wage although they will lie ot keep getting Government subsidies each year. I come from a family of mid-west farmers. I know the income and expense involved so don’t cry poor farmer! I know some well to do farmers and I know some millionaire farmers. Why should these legal or undocumented workers be paid as though they were slaves? I think every farmer that exploits these people and utilize them at starvation should face the stiffest fines that can be administered.

my first response was–huh? your answer bears little relation to my comment. to reiterate: many of the ‘great americans’ who are unemployed won’t pick apples. one person said it was because it was a minimum wage job. i replied that, if you could get more money picking apples than on unemployment, why wouldn’t you? farmers are exempt from minimum wage laws. i don’t agree with it, but that’s what congress has decided. but, to get back on topic, immigrants will. i suggested it was because they saw it as work. period. and that was better, to them, than no work.

i think too many farmers take advantage of the system. millionaires with two and three homes get subsidies. explain that to me!

but next time, don’t jump to conclusions. and try to avoid being nasty.

So it’s all about the money, the American god. Keep in mind they’re not paying minimum wage because congress exempted them. Also, if you’re unemployed and could make more picking apples. why wouldn’t you? Because you think it’s too hard and maybe too demeaning. Sorry. Try again with excuses

My comment had nothing to do with bigotry. I objected to the comments that seemed to want the government to “profile” people and start checking their “papers” mainly because of their ethnicity. That, to me, sounds too much like Nazi Germany. In fact, I agree with your post that said “get rid of the criminals, increase your border security, but for the remainder who are already here, put them on a path where they pay taxes, social security, buy or rent houses & have their health checked. In addition, employers would have to pay at least the minimum wage”. I think that is a good solution.

I want to level the playing field and give the jobs to Americans. One levels the playing field by requiring observance of the minimum wage laws and by forcing American business people to pay the legal Social Security and Medicare taxes.

We have no obligation to relieve third world countries such as Mexico of their unemployment problems. We have our own obligations and those obligations are to American citizens, not to foreigners.

By the way, Mexico has been accused by its neighbors, such as Guatemala, of stopping their people from emigrating, without proper documents, to Mexico. You may recall that the president of Mexico complained because the United States was deporting illegal Mexicans back to Mexico because our doing that was exacerbating Mexico’s unemployment problem. How’s that for hypocrisy?

So, I’m a bigot because I don’t want illegals coming here without going through the prescribed immigration processes? Your escape to the term bigot just demonstrates that you don’t have a cogent argument to back up your misguided opinion.

I have an even greater idea: Keep the illegals in their third world hell holes and require that the American employers pay their domestic workers a living wage and pay their Social Security and medicare taxes.

most aren’t jerks. the jerks (and i speak as a retired teacher that dealt with low income) are the whites. they didn’t want their precious children to have homework or face consequences for their actions. they wanted the schools to babysit and nothing more. they didn’t want to help kids with homework or volunteer. the mexicans all were supportive of the schools and volunteered as they could, all while working 2 or 3 or even 4 jobs, while the whites were often on welfare.

I agree. My wife is a retired teacher and my daughter is a teacher that just faced “burn-out” from combating these problems in a school such as you describe. The bright side is – her husband, a Music and Band Director took a job in a small town near El Paso , Texas. She was amazed at the difference. The Latinos here belive in holding their children accountable ans believe in teaching values and discipline. I don’t care for the lumping word “Mexican”. If one checks the origins of the people one will find that they hail from all different countries. Just because they are of darker skin and speak a derivitive of Spanish does not make them Mexican. I grew up in a place where German and Swiss was the major population but if you called me a Kraut – well I might have had to hit you bacause I am Irish. Be respectful to those latinos that are not Mexican.

Like yourself Hornsea1 it is not smart to argue with stupid people; they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience. I am done with this message board. Good bye and have a nice day.

I quit yahoo message boards because of the brainless, hate fueled comments there. At first this one was OK but now it has been discovered by the same backward facing element that has poisoned every site where I have tried to engage in intelligent conversation. Even AARP has a few. Sorry to see you go.

“minimally educated unskilled jerks” are just the ones that the AMERICAN EMPLOYERS are ILLEGALLY hiring to do work at LESS than minimum wages, no insurance and taxes do not have to be paid for them. When Arizona passed it’s immigration laws, nearly 140,000 illegal immigrants left JOBS that they were ILLEGALLY hired to do. I find it significant, but not surprising, that NO EMPLOYERS were prosecuted for ILLEGALLY HIRING THEM. They weren’t Mexicans.

The illegals come and stay here because the American business people are glad to pay them less than the legal minimum wage and to not have to pay their equally legal Social Security and Medicare taxes. If the business people were required to obey the law and pay Americans the legal minimum wage and to pay the equally legal Social Security and medicare taxes, they wouldn’t have trouble recruiting enough help.

I’ve noticed that when liberals are hard put to come up with cogent arguments to support their cockamamie opinions, they resort to insulting terms like “bigot.” I guess that beats having to think.

Talk about not thinking!! Nowhere in my post did I mention the word liberal. Yet, here it is in your response. Purely knee-jerk conservative authoritarian behavior.

I didn’t state an opinion. I stated a fact. Bigoted jerks cause divisiveness and hatred. Then wallow in self-congratulatory narcissism relishing the extreme hatred they are capable of expressing.

Ask a conservative what a liberal is. The answer: Anybody that is not prejudiced, bigoted, ethnocentric,woefully uninformed, self-righteous, closed-minded, narrow minded, easily led, incapable of thinking for himself, fearful, and full of hostility and hate. In other words, anybody that is not a conservative.

What’s funny about this? These are usually the people that call themselves ‘christian’.

You can’t distinguish between a fact and an opinion. Your second paragraph is unmitigated drivel. The third paragraph doesn’t betray any common sense, either. At no time in your diatribe do you put forth a credible answer to the illegal alien problem. Instead, you fixate on the term bigot. Anyone who doesn’t agree with you and wants to rid the country of the illegals is to you a bigot. Name calling is all you seem to have in your arsenal. The more you are confronted with logical arguments, the madder you get. I think that you are a jerk. Bob Boos Subject: [thenationalmemo] Re: Punitive Immigration Laws Seem Likely To Expand

And just HOW do you propose we make them a resource?? By destroying our country and our economy so we have to start all over again? Or by bringing all the diseases back into the country that we had all but erradicated many years ago? Or by bringing the bedbugs into the country by the billions? Granted a few professions have flourished thanks to their invasion, but far more are suffering. Please enlighten us as to your project to make them a resouce rather than the liability and the destructive force that they presently are?!! Inquiring minds all over this country would like to know!!!!

I appreciate your sentiments. But I am from Europe – nobody would like to go home more than me – but I can’t. I can’t even afford to visit my 93 year old mother as I am retired & live on a pension. The economy in this country has gone down hill since the day I arrived – but don’t blame the Mexicans. In part, maybe, but blame the companies that brought them here – Tyson; blame Walmart for all the cheap goods they bring in; blame lax labor laws that make employment easy & blame the consumer that won’t spend an extra dime. Whilst I am at it blame Chikita for killing the export market of APC Bananas to Europe. All I am saying is – they are here – close the borders & ensure that those who are here pay into the system. Now this definitely my last post – it was great talking to you.

For years, the pro-illegal groups have maintained that the illegals didn’t constitute an increase in crime. Well, Long Island disproved that. Several towns on Long Island are experiencing major increases in crime, especially from the Salvadorans. Ms-13 is one of the more infamous, because they’re national.

They’re also heavily committed to selling drugs and drive by shootings.

As far as getting rid of them: Crack down on the employers of these scumbags and deprive them of the means of getting money. That will drive them back to their third world dumps. If it doesn’t, arrest them, put them into special camps in Guantanamo and make their lives so miserable that they’ll run over each other trying to get out of the country.

CPANY I see we agree completely! Good idea on Guantanamo! I think that would take care of a lot of the problem. And I can speak truthfully about the Salvatorans and the Guatemalans. Since the invasion several years ago Omaha Nebr. has several drive by shootings a day and seveal deaths a week, which has been averaging out to about one murder a day. It used to be a few a YEAR, now it’s one a DAY!! There are now certain parts of Omaha, that you can’t even enter for fear of being “mowed down” either on purpose or because you got caught in the crossfire. Anyone who doesn’t believe it can just look up the stats. They will be horrified at what they find. And if they think it has nothing to do with the influx of these “scumbags,” they’re living in a fantasy world and they are only fooling themselves!!

“As far as getting rid of them: Crack down on the employers of these scumbags and deprive them of the means of getting money. ” If this had of been done since 1952 when the law was passed making it illegal to hire them in the first place. I don’t think we would be having this problem today

Hornsea, #1 These people chose to circumvent our Immigration Laws They just “Broke down the door” and came in uninvited or unwanted. While you are being a bleeding heart aiding these that willfully broke our laws – what about those Nicaraguans, Hondurans, Bolivians, etc. who are patiently waiting for approval for their LEGAL Immigration request? According to your “Logic” we should embrace the law breaker and punish the law abiding citizen? When these people come sneaking into our country illegally we have no control what type of people they are. Granted, the average one is a good person but mixed in are also Criminals – some fleeing prosecution in their own Country. Some are deep into the Drug Cartel.Thats why Crime is on the upswing in several areas. #2 If you are convinced that illegals have no adverse impact on our local economies I suggest you check with your Local Police Department, School Board, Hospitals and Health and Human Services.

oldtack, I think hornsea must be one of the “bleeding hearts” that has never been touched by this issue, nor lives in an area where he knows first hand the impact their invasion has had on this country. We have to excuse some people their ignorance, or turning a blind eye, to the real issues addressing this problem. Those who have not been affected first hand by the corruption and bankruptcy that has afflicted the states where the highest incidence of invasion have occurred, truely have no clue as to the true state of affairs beseiging this nation trying to absorb and support 50 million illegals and their crimes. They just keep taking and don’t give back, and pretty soon the well is going to run dry!

jnap You don’t comprehend very well do you. I said MOST ILLEGALS ARE GOOD PEOPLE BUT with no control over illegal immigration we have zero control over the criminal element that comes in. I agree with oyu – in this respect – we have more than enough criminals here already – law enforcement doesn’t need any more. My neighbor is a Civil Judge, my good friend in the middle of the block is a Police Sgt., my friend at the ende of the block is a Police Lt. and my friend across the Street is a retired Highway Patrolman and I do hear a lot about our Criminal element. But I still hold to the idea of National ID of some form and stiff penalties for those that knowingly use illegal labor and a stiff penalty for illegals who are apprehended in this Country a second time. If they wish to be a citizen of this Country then let them apply and do it in the Legla manner. And – you have my Thanks and respect for the job you have. Many Citizens never consider that each time you don your Uniform and hit the Streets or theHhighways you are in effect placing you life on the line to enforce Laws and protect we average citizens. For that – I say thank you for you Service.

That’s how it starts – lets just start ignoring the laws of our nation and every time some criminal snivels about how they are effected by our laws we can just turn our back on the law and let the criminals have their way. We can run stop signs, speed up and down the road, run cross walks in school zones, dump our trash on main street, cheat on our taxes, ignore statutory rape laws! Gosh we may get to the point of stealing from the collection plate, marching in the street and burning Mexican flags, breaking windows of business’s we don’t like: and all this could become okay! Yea- lets just start ignoring laws, turning our head and making excuses!

Not only do illegals take jobs & help the crime rates we already have to rise they also take tachers time to teach them our language…. (English 2nd Language) in which 99% is taught in their perfectve language (mostly Hispanic). It also irritates the hell out of me that these illegals as well as foreigners come here & expects us not to celebrate our religious beliefs such as “Christmas” & “Easter”. It is now considered offensive to say “Merry Christmas” or “Happy Easter”. What about our money???? Removing “In God We Trust” would be the crime of the century…. I’m a firm believe if it isn’t broken don’t try to fix it. All that needs fixing are all the uninvited guests we seem to hosting all across our beautiful country.

What in the world do the illegal immigrants have to do with saying Merry Christmas? They are usually Catholic and celebrate the same religious holidays as other Christian religions. What about the money? It still says “In God We Trust” but this just started in the 1950s. Was it the crime of the century before this practice was initiated? Doesn’t take much to upset you.

Just like you’ve been IGNORING the law making it Illegal to hire these people for jobs in the first place (passed in 1952). As a direct result of you IGNORING that law we now have a bunch of illegals in this country breaking other laws.

I was beginning to think that I was alone. It kills (5?) birds with one stone – it makes sense. It makes sense for the immigration issue – it makes sense for the economy & social security. With 30 million people (+ /-) without any form of control makes no sense. By bringing them into the system – you can control health issues, they can help the elderly with paying for pensions. When someone suggests that we have high unemployment – nobody knows the problems that it brings more than me – but I will not go into that. How many unemployed Americans would spend 8 hours at minimum wage picking strawberries? I couldn’t do it!

A friend of mine wanted to set-up a school in Elmina, Ghana for children rescued from the child slave labor in Ivory Coast. Elmina is the site of one of the infamous slave castles. The money would largely come from a family trust. The response in the USA has been negative.

Good to meet you Hornsea1. I get very frustrated and discouraged reading these comments and vow each day to stay away. I am 69 and feel like I went around with my eyes and mind closed for about 68 of those years. I have lived in Alabama all my life and worked in Birmingham during the Civil Rights Era. What happened saddened me but anyone who spoke out was in for a world of hurt. Now we have the most hateful anti-immigrant law in the country and almost everyone I know is all for it. I knew that prejudice was alive and well here but did not know so many Americans literally seethe with hate. So few will even consider that an influx of immigrants is sometimes what it takes to revitalize a country. This situation would balance naturally if left alone but one political party won’t let it go. Good luck.

Prejudice and discrimination are alive and well in the USA. Just look at all the comments made about our president regarding his birth and anything else they can think up. It is sad that such hatred exists. I am 68 and until 1987 lived in the north. Now I am in NC. When I first moved here I was astounded by the treatment of African Americans. It was almost like pre Civil War. They frequently lived in the same neighborhoods but were not allowed the same employment opportunities. I even heard a comment in my office when I asked why there were no blacks working there – it was “Oh they are never hired to work in the office, only the warehouse”. Where I came from, they usually kept to their own neighborhoods, which I guess was just a different kind of discrimination, but they were hired and worked with the rest of us. Now the prejudice has grown to include Hispanic people. I wonder if we will ever learn to judge people for what and who they are instead of what they look like.

This is my last post! Let me say that it was a pleasure to discuss differences of opinion, void of ‘bad’ words & derogatory comments. We all have differences – but that is what democracy is about. I try hard to offer a positive opinion without invoking wrath – political, racial or otherwise. I will monitor, but not comment. You are great guys.

Oh Come on Hornsea1 don’t leave us. I like arguing with you but it’s all just a difference of opinion that sometimes gets a little “rough”. I respect your opinion , that’s why I read and respond. But if you insist then I enjoyed you opinion and enjoyed giving you a hard time. Take Care

Funny thing about the illegals that the anti-federalist clowns have not recognized: the illegals pay a lot of taxes. In Georgia, car dealers went ballistic when the repubs banned car purchases for the illegals. Never mind the ad valorum tax, the sales tax, the tag tax, the gasoline tax and on and on. Tire tax?

Well the reason we are talking about immigration is because of the economy has slowed down a Minute. that give people time to really think about things? but when the economy was great And people had job.especially the middle class.very poor people are just poor people.and it make To much since to try and deport people because big businesses wanted them here .to take care Of the minimum wage jobs in this country.and now they have no more use for them. they want to Deport them? if people started looking at who is on the ballot instead getting all the information About these candidate the voter will have a clear vision as to who to vote for? but just because You don’t like a person because of the color of his or her skin is not a winning strategy? just like The king of the Jews.and i quote before the cock crows somebody will betray me ? do not ask what Your country can do for you? the question should be what can you do for your country.and that is not robbing from the poor and given it to the rich.and you really should think before you vote And all of these super -PAC are suppressing people vote.mostly people of color. redistricting area in this country.and it all about taking their country back.they had this country you tell me What did they do with it.tell me in(25) words or less.

I really feel for people that want to or immigrate to different places for a better oppertunity to earn a decent living. I moved to Illinois from Florida for the same reasons. I loved Florida for many things but it was [in the 1960-1970] a difficult place for the same conditions we have all over now. Florida is a “right to work for less” state. With all the “able retirees” both military and civilian willing to work for the winter months, the compitition for good full time jobs was horrindous. Pay was of course mostly minimum wage or often below and under the table. We will be confronted almost everwhere with these conditions if we persist in allowing this intrusion of illegals and our governments refusal to inforce the law of the land everwhere. It is unfortunate that many persons may experience police efforts to inforce the law because they appeer to fit the “illegal” profile. Too often police are distracted from reasonable inforcement because of this “profilling”.

Stup(id)reme Court : It has been two years since this infamous Citizens United Supreme Court ruling by four of five rogue judges that continue with these outrageous decisions! Unfortunately, this Robert’s Court has turned into nothing more than a disrespected group of Political legal interest representatives that now serves as a rubber stamp for their own political views in the Congress! This institution has destroyed its own creditability and integrity in its failure to make decisions based upon the constitution and now functions as activists with little respect or regard for established laws! The Supreme Court says that constitution can shielded private lawyers and possibly others working for cities, counties and school districts from being sued for violating the rights of citizens and employees. This judicial body is no longer relevant and has dishonored itself as an independent branch of U.S. Govt! Roberts and his activist Court needs to be publicly shamed to be reminded that we’re a democracy, not a judicial dictatorship!

Illegal is Illegal. I am for letting the 12 million illegals stay here and win citizenship over a period of years. If they are of age to serve 2 years in the military and have no criminal record they can become U.S citizens. Anyone coming accross the border, illegaly after a certain date will never be allowed to becaome citizens. The dream act is good. The Republicans are garbage. I will kiss their Elephant if they will kiss my ASS. And that`s the way i see it.

With the unpopularity of the GOP on the rise, it seems to me that, if certain things happen in the next few months, the GOP will suffer a bloodbath similar to the one they suffered in 1932, when they lost a dozen seats in the US Senate and 101 more in the US House, not to mention the huge losses they suffered in state Houses and Senates…the SCOTUS (Supreme Court of the United States) has at least two HUGE decisions to make that will either knock down the GOP’s margin of defeat in November or put the final nail into their coffin; one of those decisions is the Constitutionality of the PPACA (“Obamacare”); it’s probable that, if the SCOTUS strikes it down, the GOP will pay big…the other decision is the Arizona SB 1070 law; if the SCOTUS upholds it, the Demos will enjoy an even greater advantage at the ballot box. The GOP already are way behind in the Hispanic vote and ruling that law Constitutional would seal the GOP’s fate; do you envision many Hispanics voting for the GOP if that happens? Most people already know that the SCOTUS has been ruled by “judicial fiat” since the Conservatives first got the 5-4 advantage they still have now. That fiat is lucky that Congress’ make up now and after the elections later this year won’t rival the Demos’ advantage in the middle 1930’s; Starting with the 1930 midterms and after the GOP ran this country into the ground financially during the “Roaring Twenties” (Wall Street Crash in October 1929 was the key development then), the GOP began to suffer big losses in Congress; by the 1934 mid-terms, the Demos had a 2/3rds majority in both Houses; this was important because, when the Demo-controlled Congress passed the Social Security Act of 1935 and the Demos maintained that huge advantage after the 1936 elections, the FDR-hating Conservative majority of the SCOTUS knew what Congress would do if they opposed FDR’s policies. When the GOP’s lawsuit against the Social Security Act of 1935 winnowed its way through the courts to the SCOTUS in 1937, the Justices suddenly remembered that they took an oath to support and defend the Constitution and upheld the law…if they didn’t, they faced impeachment and expulsion. Impeachment and expulsion would be the only means Congress would have now to expel the five current Conservative pricks on the panel; however, while the Demos could very well “flip” 100 seats this year to get the 2/3rds majority needed to impeach them, the Demos can get up to 64 seats in the Senate, if they defend all 23 of their seats and take all of the GOP seats up for grabs. That’s three short of the 2/3rds majority needed for expulsion. If 3-5 GOP senators who are not up for election this year can be convinced into retiring (like you, Johnny McCain), the Demos would then have their chance. If the Demos fail to get 67 seats, getting at least 60 seats would benefit them greatly inasmuch as the GOP would be without their favorite tool of political obstruction….the filibuster. The GOP have filibustered all judicial and department appointments made by President Obama so far; with a filibuster-proof majority, the Demos and the President can appoint more reasonable Liberal/Progressive justices when one or more of the SCOTUS justices decide to retire. At least three of the current panel are considering retirement and two of them are Conservatives…the night of 6 November, 2012 will be full of suspense; this is where politics can be really interesting.

Great post. If people would just pay more attention to our history maybe there would not be so many supporting the conservatives who are destroying our country once again. I sincerely hope the coming election will bring some relief.

I do not see the Arizona Law as “hateful” as that would indicate that the law was made merely to spite illegal immigrants. The law was made because of the negative impact illegals were having on the communities that were a part of Arizona. Just because many illegal immigrants are of a similar ethnic group does not make this a racial issue, as that would imply Arizona residents were using the law to unleash some kind of pent up racism against hispanics. That the majority of illegal immigrants just happen to be hispanic has no effect on the logic behind the law, since we could swap out hispanic for chinese, african, brazilian, or any other kind of group and it has no effect on the law. The law is in no way based on race.

Don’t know about Arizona’s law but the one here in Alabama most definitely was for spite. Not spite for the immigrants but spite for the Democrat Party. The law here was designed to scare away legal and illegal immigrants as they tend to vote Democrat. This is purely political as Alabama has only about 130,000 illegal immigrants and there is been little negative impact from their being here. You must be incredibly naive to think that the Arizona law was not written solely because of Hispanic immigrants. I have read nothing in the news about Arizona being overrun by Chinese or Brazilians. That is like saying the Jim Crow laws we had here in Alabama were written to subjugate white people.

But isn’t that exactly what Arizona is doing – unleasing pent up racism against hispanics? This law goes after no other racial group, but hispanics! The law could indeed have an impact on other races, namely african-americans. If this bigoted law stands, what other laws that could be detrimental would come down the pike in the near future? The GOP wants to turn back the hands of time. Jim Crow laws could come back; I could lose my right to vote; systematic segregation could rear its ugly head again; people could have a license to kill me on sight, etc.

The Mexicans are the only immigrants that I’m aware of that come here, criticize America and Americans, wave Mexican flags, sing about how great Mexico is, and generally revel in the fact that they’re Mexicans, all the while enjoying a far better life here than they would have had in Mexico. Most immigrant groups come here, kiss the dirt, proclaim their love for this country, wave American flags, and are proud to call themselves Americans. The aforementioned Mexicans have to accept some of the responsibility for the xenophobic reaction to their attitudes against America. (By the way, I realize that not all Mexicans who come here act that way. My Mexican daughter-in-law loves being an American. My wife is Salvadoran, and she and her family also love America, while still honoring their Salvadoran heritage. I myself am a WAS [White Anglo Saxon] American.)

History says you are wrong. Our culture contains elements of all the different immigrant groups who have come here. If the economic situation was so bad here that I felt I had to go somewhere else to provide for my family I don’t think I could just turn my back on American and forget all about her. When there was an influx of Irish immigrants they maintained much of their culture as did the Italians and other groups. Have you ever heard of China Town? Do you watch St. Patrick’s Day celebrations on TV. What about dying the river green? Immigrants should retain some of their heritage and pass it on to their children because with each generation more will be lost. Second generation immigrants, as evidenced by young Hispanics, have English as their primary language and are more assimilated than their parents. You forget also that many are not American citizens and some may not want to be. Many are here to work and last time I checked work was a good thing. If I went to another country to live I would certainly take an American flag with me and would continue to honor the US as well as my adoptive country. Why do you think it is good for your wife to honor her Salvadoran heritage but others are evil for honoring theirs.

History says you are wrong. Our culture contains elements of all the different immigrant groups who have come here. If the economic situation was so bad here that I felt I had to go somewhere else to provide for my family I don’t think I could just turn my back on American and forget all about her. When there was an influx of Irish immigrants they maintained much of their culture as did the Italians and other groups. Have you ever heard of China Town? Do you watch St. Patrick’s Day celebrations on TV. What about dying the river green? Immigrants should retain some of their heritage and pass it on to their children because with each generation more will be lost. Second generation immigrants, as evidenced by young Hispanics, have English as their primary language and are more assimilated than their parents. You forget also that many are not American citizens and some may not want to be. Many are here to work and last time I checked work was a good thing. If I went to another country to live I would certainly take an American flag with me and would continue to honor the US as well as my adoptive country. Why do you think it is good for your wife to honor her Salvadoran heritage but others are evil for honoring theirs.

” The Mexicans are the only immigrants that I’m aware of that come here, criticize America and Americans, wave Mexican flags, sing about how great Mexico is, and generally revel in the fact that they’re Mexicans, all the while enjoying a far better life here than they would have had in Mexico. ”

Common sense should tell you and anybody that reads this, that this statement can’t be true. There have been people critical of America, flag wavers and singers of the virtues of their native lands in EVERY wave of immigrants that has ever come to America and this includes the Pilgrims. Then you turn around and contradict yourself by telling us how much your MEXICAN daughter-in-law, and your SALVADORAN wife LOVE this country.

Yes Hornsea1 let’s do be pragmatic! These so called immigrants are anything but immigrants!! They are illegal invaders that have invaded this country with their filth, their diseases, their drugs and their millions of illigitamate kids that we the tax payers are taking care of through the food stamp program, ADC, welfare, medicaid and medical, along with any other govt. handouts they can access with their several forms of ID! We need them in this country like we need another epidemic of the Bubonic Plague. They did NOT come here legally like “immigrants” do. They crawl across our borders like cockroaches and expect us to feed and house them and take care of the kids they breed like rabbits. Granted there are a FEW, but very few, who are here for a better way of life, most of them have been spreading the word back to their amigos in Mexico for years about the free handouts they get in this country, that’s why the majority are here!! Most of them are working here taking jobs away from thousands of AMERICAN CITIZENS in the meat packing industries and the various manufactoring plants! All the while sending the majority of their paychecks back to Mexico, where they plan to return once they reap enough benefits here, so they can live high off the hog when they go back. I live in an area where we have been forced to live with this crap for over a decade and are presently trying to adopt most of Arizona restrictions. We want them out of here, they are destroying our economy and running all the states they have invaded, flat broke!! AND there ARE large numbers of them here to the tune of 50 million and counting!!!!! How many more should we absorb before the entire country goes broke????

Suzy, your stupidity is breathtaking. First you say they are on welfare and then say they are taking jobs away from Americans. Which is it, welfare, or workers? And then you call them filthy and disease ridden while using Medicaid as a means for health care. Does that mean Medicaid promotes disease? Then you go on and say that they send the majority of their wages back to Mexico so they can live “high on the hog” when they go back while insisting that they never go back but remain in the US forever. Your ignorance is only surpassed by your stupidity. Undocumented people in the US come from many countries such as Honduras, Costa Rica, El Salvatore, Philippines, India, Korea, Ecuador, Brazil, and of course Mexico. Just to inform you, they are undocumented not illegal. They are not criminals. The truth is even if there were no undocumented people in the US you would still be a very unhappy and hateful person.

LOL! I’ll bet native Americans must have said the same thing, you know … about “invaders invading their country with their filth and disease…” You must be suffering something awful to post such a racist rant!

the problem is the legal immigration laws need to be reformed at the same time though an illeagal immigrant is a drain on the economy as to hide under the radar alot of them work below waht they should wich is not fair to the unemployed

Talking about illegal immigration, some people forget that America has been a country of IMMIGRANTS right from Christopher Columbus and his fellow “conquisitadores. With due respect to the sovereign laws of the nation, something seems to attract people from all parts of the earth to the U.S. than any other country, and that should make American citizens willing to accommodate these hapless late-comers to the Big Boat, The U.S.A.

Why should you insist this is a “hateful” Law? Trying to sway people’s opinions with this banter? Let’s face reality. We have a minimum wage here, and an expectation of at least some kind of meaningful pay for a day’s work. I welcome legal mexicans or anyone from any country who comes here legally, and is a positive impact on our multi-national makeup. That’s how and why we became a great nation. But let’s have it orderly and legal. Why do you fail to accept a policy as simple as that? I have seen mexican workers who do an incredible amount of work so quick it’s not even funny. These people know how to work…..not like our lazy welfare cheats who simply demand their “rights” for every litle thing. Maybe we can deport those bums to mexico and let them demand their “rights” there. Have to get rid of their citizenship with the ship-outs, of course. We don’t want them back under any circumstances. Jesus did not say “champion the poor”, but rather “the poor will always be with us”. Our idiots in government should read the Bible instead of trying to ignore the existence of simple moral principles. Championing the lazy poor can only deny those of worthy endeavor their just due. Of course, to champion the poor is the hallmark of the democrats who have driven us so far in debt we may lose our dollar as the international unit of trade. I say vote for Ron Paul. His principles will straighten this country out, and restore our freedoms and our place in the world.

I say hooray for Arizona and every other state that stands up to defend itself, and the United States, against illegal aliens. America is and has always been a nation of laws. Turning our head on violations of our laws is un-American; ignoring illegal entry into our country is absurd. Any attempts to accept illegal aliens is a slap in the face of every American and legal immigrant and makes a mockery of our nations laws.

“Hateful, dumb law, terrible example, bigotry, mean spirited” suggests the illegal alien is the victim. Profiling is nothing more than applying logic and reason and only suggest indifference by those who are racially demented. Any suspicions of wrong doing should be investigated and appropriate action taken. We should keep in mind the problem was and continues to be created by the Illegal Aliens and every American citizen and legal immigrant is the victim of the criminal presence of illegal aliens. Don’t try to place the blame for something bad on the victim – blame those who brought this problem to America!

The ONLY reason I would support Romney is Obama’s interests in Amnesty for illegal’s.

OK, Dalnb, Let me give you another big reason to not approve laws like Arizona’s. I live in Florida and we have millions, that’s right millions of visitors from South America coming to our beaches and visiting Disney World, Universal Studios and Sea World each year. These folks are not American Citizens and will stick out like a sore thumb and could very likely to be the target of those “that would question their “citizenship”. Just the idea of harassing these tourists will have serious consequences and cause hundreds of thousands of these people to decide to go somewhere else to vacation. Our tourist trade is dependant on people, from other countries, being able to freely come here and not be harassed. Dumb laws have consequences and can, either directly or indirectly, affect you and others trying to make a living. Undocumented people are not the reason for you and other people not prospering. Try being less hateful.

You tout your great respect for the law, where was it when the law against hiring illegals was consistently being broken ( a law that pre-dated your Arizona laws). That was ” a slap in the face of every American and legal immigrant and makes a mockery of our nations laws.”

When one notices that if the old law was enforced, mostly White people would have been prosecuted, that didn’t happen. New laws were written, laws that call for the prosecution of Mexicans instead of Whites. Although Whites are still breaking the old law. I call that BIGOTRY.

We need to learn how to respect different groups, it’s not just about us!!I hope the court strikes down the law, this is NOT the way to solve the problem!!!I wonder who will be the next group target!!!

How large is “large numbers of illegals?” To right wingers, it’s 200 million. To pragmatic, knowledgeable Americans, it’s (according to the latest reports from INS) 11 million and of those 11 million illegals, 5 million have been in the US more than a decade and have on average 2 children.

Nothing more “ignernt” than red staters who won’t mow their own lawns, defeather their own poultry and pick their own fields of vegetables and fruits or, worse, watch their OWN kids without help from illegals they pigeon hole into a non-existence while they work for wages these “ignernts” wouldn’t.

It figures TX, AL, GA, AZ and the rest of the Big, Rich Red states who make off with more than their fair share of federal revenues paid for by the rest of the states would be the same whiners who hire illegals and then complain they have to have a roof over their heads and food to eat. Anyone else fed up with Stars and Bars superiority going off the rails on a crazy train?

You have high unemployment but not because of 11 million illegals. You have high unemployment because 65% of American jobs are in Mexico, China, Thailand and other cheap labor countries. Exporting jobs is the cause of the massive unemployment and the only reason for that exportation of American jobs is so Mr. Hotcha CEO can get another $10 million bonus next fiscal quarter. How about a little truth and a whole lot less donkey dung?

If the use the front door like my great grandparents then i welcome them as americans . If you are illegal then you are committing a crime. Why are we so fast to make poor reasons for others bad acts. Guess it is the latest trend do what you want ,blame someone else. Not all want to live here & thats find then come on a work visa & thak the rewards of your labor back with you. But don’t use our resources for illegals & screw the old & disabled out of their right as americans because its WRONG

Vet, I doubt that your addled and bigoted brain can understand this but being undocumented is not a crime. You can get deported but not jailed for a criminal offense. Would you put 6 year old child in jail for being undocumented? Grow up stupid.

Jnap Since you state that you are in law enforcement and I take you at your word. I respect the work you do. But – You are the most sour assed negative person on this entire forum. If you were a Patrolman I would sure hate to be your partner. Can you think positive? Can you come up with anything intelligent or do you spend your entire life just bitching, belittling and complaining?

If my grasp of History is correct the Native Americans DID NOT invite the Europeans in through the front door. The European takeover of this country was accomplished with DISEASE and GUNS. ” Why are we so fast to make poor reasons for others bad acts. “

One of the truly puzzling aspects of this debate is the double message coming from the conservatives. On one hand they advocate letting big business run freely and do anything they want, while decrying illegals coming here for these jobs. If you go take a look at where these illegals are working in highest concentrations, they are working in chain hotels and motels, chain food services from fast food on up,large construction firms,and and so on. It was the big corporations that fed this problem but the right focuses on the individual. This is a self defeating plan, if they were truly wanting to get rid of them why aren’t they calling for higher rates of enforcement on EMPLOYERS?

Hundreds of students here illegally are now terrified of being deported to Mexico. I can understand that, given the chaos in Mexico and their own long residency in the United States. But here is what still confuses me: If one were to consider the classes that deal with Mexico at the university, or the visible displays of national chauvinism, then one might conclude that Mexico is a far more attractive and moral place than the United States. So there is a surreal nature to these protests: something like, – “Please do not send me back to the culture I nostalgically praise; please let me stay in the culture that I ignore or deprecate.” – Victor Davis Hanson

Should you find yourself in another country would you disavow the United States of American? Would you automatically cease to love and cherish your homeland? Would your discard any emblems or reminders of your country of birth? Would you erase all your memories of your previous life? This is a country of immigrants and the cultures they came from contributed to the mixture that is our culture now. Do you kiss the ground and give thanks each day that you were fortunate enough to be here through accident of birth and no merit of your own? You didn’t even choose this country, it was handed to you but you think others that did choose it should get on their knees everyday and give thanks.

Insane Jane – your stereotypical “frothy emotional appeal” is more akin to poetry than a well reasoned argument and while poetry is nice, it is no substitute for realistic logic. By your logic there should be no borders and everyone in the world should be free to come here and we should support all of them with free everything. I am sorry, in a perfect world we could all chant ” Nam Myo Ho Ren Ge Kyo” until we “wipe out VD and set the animals free” etc but only the far left thinks Utopia actually exists. The reality is when we try to give TOO MANY people our helping hand, instead of helping them up, they drag us down. We have immigration laws for a reason and it is ironic and revealing that you speak of “the emblems of our land” even as the loony tunes you defend fly foreign flags on our soil in arrogant protest. The Balkans are a perfect example of what happens when we make a dirty word out of patriotism and stop expecting immigrants to assimilate into our culture. As a famous man once said “this is a nation, not a polyglot boarding house”.

Well thats all well and good. I look at the ones that are taking our tax dolleas and getting huge federal refunds and the IRS i s turning a BLIND EYE to this highway robbery. They are using this money to buy homes, cars, etc. Do you think an illegal immigrat should recieve 29,000.00 or 16,000 in a refund claiming children who live in Mexico. I would like to own a home and my children to own their own homes also. I live in some neighborhoods with them I see them purchase ss# to get ahead illegally. I hope they don’t have your relatives that are deceased SS#!

If you were in power, you would know that a state cannot afford to have 3% illegals living in your state. This is not a “minor” problem, despite that I can clearly see Liberal indignation in previous posters’ comments.

It is a major problem created by YOUR (again, I’m back to the proposition that YOU are the leader) inability or unwillingness to uphold the law.

If you need to write new legislation to throw out the illegals, then you, too (again, still using the ludicrous proposition that you could ever convince a majority of voters to vote for YOU), all your hypocrisy would magically melt away, and you would do what you MUST, which is your duty, now your SWORN OATH, to uphold the law.

Seriously. If you bleeding heart hypocrites have any serious ideas about how to solve this UNACCEPTABLE problem, write them down coherently, and send those ideas to the legally elected LEADERS of your own actual and real State, or Nation, and get them going on implementing them.

You are going to HAVE to recognize that these illegal immigrants are actually just economic refugees. You self-righteous hypocrites will have to see that they, your dearly beloved illegals, want the economic advantages that you (presumably) have worked to create for yourselves.

As the leader of a State, you would want top happily accept immigrants who will speak your own language, KNOW the customs and LAWS of your country, AND willingness to contribute, perhaps even LEAD, in the economic strength of your State.

The situation where you have even 1% of “illegals” living in your state is unacceptable, and you all have a DUTY TO STOP IT IMMEDIATELY.

Now YOU said that as the leader of the State you were DUTY BOUND to enforce the law. Then HOW COME you allowed certain companies and people to break the law and hire illegals (you are aware that, that practice has been long ILLEGAL). Thus creating an Illegal Alien problem in the State you were DUTY BOUND to protect.

YAWN… We’re all full aware of the process. It’s conservatives who can’t work w/in it. If American corporations weren’t so busy jumping from 1 hot-spot, slave-labor location 2 another, showing the face of injustice & destroying the natural, human desire of DEMOCRATIC aspirations of the citizenry in some foreign nation, while the natives see how well we live (via TV), they wouldn’t be so desperate to come here!!! President Clinton did his best to end this type of exploitation, by helping establish peripheral trade zones, to create domestic prosperity, that would be available to America & other developed nations, on an EQUAL trade basis. What did U’r conservative choice follow that up w/?…

We have the most liberal immigration laws in the world, and that’s good. But we also need to control the number of immigrants added to the population each year.

I know several immigrants that waited 6 to 7 years before being invited into our country legally after passing police and homeland security background checks as well as physicals to insure that they weren’t bringing in any deceases.

I think that every illegal migrant should return to their country of origin and go through the same process as legal immigrants do, and wait until they are invited in. If it’s fair for legals, then it’s also fair for illegals.

Sure – just like the game of Hide and Seek; the illegals’ can slip into our country, remain undetected for a period of time and be rewarded with Amnesty! It makes no difference what the law says, it makes no difference as to what the impact is on our economy, our jobs, our quality of life, or our social system.

Listen to them – they say they are good for our country because they pay Income Tax but can not draw benefits from their payment; explain then with so many of them here allegedly paying into SS why is the SS system going broke?

They claim they only do work that others will not do – if the employer would pay appropriate wages and treat employees like American workers should be treated I am sure they could find plenty of workers; we are not slaves however.

The illegal alien is a criminal; they broke our laws the day they illegally entered our nation (or failed to leave when they were required to do so) and they compound their crime every day they illegal remain in our country. And you think rewarding them is the thing to do? No wonder our country is falling apart!

Put a time line on our national problems and you will see the quality of our social system and economy started falling apart the same time the huge influx of illegal’ increased.

Actually, I’m about as anti GOP as you can get and I’m all for tougher treatment for illegals. Come in, drop a kid and you’re on the dole for life. Good for the courts! Come in the front door and I say, “welcome to America” – slip in the back and you’ll get a bus ride home – if you’re lucky!

Well I guess I’m the only bigot writing on this comment, Cynthia Tucker is as left of center as you can get, not to mention she hates white people, she is the biggest bigot I know, I think she graduated from the Cynthia Mckinney school of bigotry. The best money this country could spend, would be to over throw Mexico and rebuild it, get rid of the corrupt government and start the process over from the ground up, mexicans would knock each other over going back across, Maybe they could take Cynthia with em

It is an insult to free speech when you present data about the death of 12 Americans each day by illegal aliens that this publication refuses to publish. Cynthia Tucker’s article is incorrect and unrealistic.

From the RIGHT Look we need to enforce our laws. Just because you don’t like a law does not mean don’t you don’t have to respect the law. I think we need a guest work program, that charges a fee for a background check. I would also restrict women from having babies born here. Many countries have programs like this. To those on the left open your eyes and get out more.

From the RIGHT Look we need to enforce our laws. Just because you don’t like a law does not mean don’t you don’t have to respect the law. I think we need a guest work program, that charges a fee for a background check. I would also restrict women from having babies born here. Many countries have programs like this. To those on the left open your eyes and get out more.

From the RIGHT Look we need to enforce our laws. Just because you don’t like a law does not mean don’t you don’t have to respect the law. I think we need a guest work program, that charges a fee for a background check. I would also restrict women from having babies born here. Many countries have programs like this. To those on the left open your eyes and get out more.

To felinegrace I say: You are correct, felinegrace. Bigotry lives in the U.S.A., BIG TIME. I come from a town & state which continues to uphold & reinforce its old, bigotted traditions even into our own time. Many Hispanics have suffered that discrimination here, and many will continue to do so in the future. Most African Americans moved out due to this fact. The problem has been that mean-spirited parents teach children, ad nauseum, until when? – the next Ice Age?

To Kevin Con. I say: Yes, there are lots, BUT some are even Russian, Chinese, etc. – a fact.

… as this is an election year, ‘booggymen’ must be found to create a hysteria around, in order to increase conservative participation. Sadly… that such pathetic tactics still work on American’s who have yet to learn any better by now. The consequence – the lack of farm workers to help deliver produce to market & the degrading treatment of the Mercedes exec, among others I’m sure, are a sad commentary on the state of a nation which, at 1 time, knew no fear & embraced new immigrants w/out (relative) hesitation. As this article states, there are deep pathological issues at its root, but clearly, the same fear & paranoia which ALWAYS expands in times of national distress & trauma, all manifesting a limiting initiative, yet again, by conservatives, to curtail ANY & ALL forms of Democracy as possible…

Just to add some fuel to this fire: I’ve heard the pro illegal advocates claiming that the illegals don’t pose a crime threat. As Long Island is proving, that’s pure baloney. The illegals are populating the gangs that are flourishing on Long Island. The newspapers frequently report names such as MS-13, Bloods, Crips, etc.

Here’s some more fuel for the fire: The Mexicans detest us and it’s a feeling that is encouraged in Mexican schools and probably throughtout the Mexican government. They call it the Reconquista, i.e. the movement to take back the land that we stole from Mexico as a result of the Mexican War of 1845-1846. We took about half of their country. That land is now called California, Arizona and New Mexico. They lost Texas when it bacame a separate country in 1836. When the United States Congress granted The Republic of Texas statehood in 1845, the Mexican government under Santa Ana declared war on the United States and lost. The land grab took place under the treaty of Guadelupe Hidalgo, which formally ended the war and the subsequent Gadsden Purchase.