How important is sidespin?

You know the ones: the ridiculous banana-shots the Nadal pulls off on the run or, more commonly, pros get on the slice backhand.

I was arguing with a friend about how important sidespin is. He argued that it is sidespin on the forehand can add an element of variety and can add a margin of error to already-difficult passing shots. Sidespin on the slice means that there is another factor for the opponent to deal with and the ball is less able to be hit away.

I believed that sidespin is a gimmick and impractical. I hit with a lot of topspin and can get spidespin if I try, but it adds little to the shot. Sidespin on passing shots is extremely difficult in practice and actually makes it harder to get the ball in, because it is hard to know where it is going. On the slice, sidespin can be helpful, but can easily cause excess lurching that will send the ball floating out.

I believed that sidespin is a gimmick and impractical. I hit with a lot of topspin and can get spidespin if I try, but it adds little to the shot. Sidespin on passing shots is extremely difficult in practice and actually makes it harder to get the ball in, because it is hard to know where it is going. On the slice, sidespin can be helpful, but can easily cause excess lurching that will send the ball floating out.

TL;DR How helpful is sidespin? Do you guys find uses for it?

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If it is not helping control and making it stronger, you aren't doing it right. A well
hit modern Fh will most often have some degree of sidespin due to working the
arc across contact. It's part of getting the best rhs and that is why you see
it in Rafa's TS shots.
On slice if done right, it gives you the fine control over net clearance for those
low skidders.

I find side+top to be very difficult to deal with. Side+slice is much easier.

I haven't quite figured out how to add sidespin, except by a brushing action which has a horizontal component in addition to the vertical component needed for top spin. The theory seems simple - but I cannot visualize doing it on demand.

I'm with your friend. It's one more thing that your opponent has to deal with. And as 5263 said it's a fairly natural outgrowth of the modern swing paths. On high topspin shots you can get kind of an American Twist thing happening too where the ball kicks back in the opposite direction of the spin.

The side spin on slice can really mess with people, even really good players. Honestly on low slices if there's not quite a bit of side spin on the ball I don't see how you could be hitting with a modern slice technique.

Side spin is crucial for my game at least, because normally I'm slicing DTL on my backhand in the Ad court. This means that when I hit the line, it's drawing my opponent into the doubles alley and opening up a ton of court space. This is my bread and butter approach shot as it just works really well for me.

Sidespin on the forehand I don't hit ever when I'm hitting a normal rally ball, that being said when I'm on the run its almost always a buggy whip shot that has a ton of action on it from the low to high and across motion. It's just physics at that point, (which I don't know very well in depth!) that with enough racket head speed I'm going to be getting a lot of spin. :razz:

You know the ones: the ridiculous banana-shots the Nadal pulls off on the run or, more commonly, pros get on the slice backhand.

I was arguing with a friend about how important sidespin is. He argued that it is sidespin on the forehand can add an element of variety and can add a margin of error to already-difficult passing shots. Sidespin on the slice means that there is another factor for the opponent to deal with and the ball is less able to be hit away.

I believed that sidespin is a gimmick and impractical. I hit with a lot of topspin and can get spidespin if I try, but it adds little to the shot. Sidespin on passing shots is extremely difficult in practice and actually makes it harder to get the ball in, because it is hard to know where it is going. On the slice, sidespin can be helpful, but can easily cause excess lurching that will send the ball floating out.

TL;DR How helpful is sidespin? Do you guys find uses for it?

Click to expand...

My opponents, up to and including 4.5 level players, tell me that my sliced sidespin shots are the most difficult for them to handle. What variable spins do is screw up a player's timing. It introduces yet another variable that has to be paid attention to.

The pros use some measure of sidespin on groundstrokes quite a bit. The banana shot is an extreme example of this. Check the link above for a great view on how Roddick executes the banana shot.

Quite often, elite players will hit a bit to the "outside" of the ball rather the directly on the back of the ball when hitting topspin or slice groundies. This will cause a bit of bending to the left or the right as the ball flies thru the air. Once in a while, they will hit a bit on the "inside" part of the ball to get the ball to spin the other way to get the ball flight to flare out a bit (like on some inside-out shots).

Hitting on the outside of the ball is probably used more than hitting on the outside, particularly true for FH shots. This practice is often employed when hitting x-court topspin shots (either FH or BH), especially for short sharp angles. It is also very useful when returning an incoming x-court shot DTL. When attempting a DTL shot for a ball that is coming from a x-court direction, the ball will tend to go wide unless the player hits a bit on the outside of the ball -- to get the ball to curve in a little bit (away from the side line).

For BH slices, players will sometimes hit the inside of the ball to get the ball to curve one way or they will hit the outside of the ball to get it to fly straighter or to have it curve the other way.

Another type of (horizontal-axis) spin, spiral spin, is often used in conjunction with (vertical-axis) sidespin. Spiral spin does not cause any left-right deviation in the flight of the ball, but it does cause the ball to veer to the left or the right when it bounces (note that regular sidespin does not do this). This spiral spin is the type of spin that causes the ball to bounce in the opposite direction on a twist serve.

Got back from a Christmas social. The highlight was not playing with the sucky crowd, but the hitting I got to do with a junior guy whose father was playing, before the games began.

Now, that was some real sidespin. It was somewhat more than what Cheetah puts. He hit one forehand which swung so deceptively in the opposite direction that I completely "lost" the line of the ball and it crashed into the fence behind me. First time I have been fooled this way. I thought such deception happens only in baseball and cricket.

Got back from a Christmas social. The highlight was not playing with the sucky crowd, but the hitting I got to do with a junior guy whose father was playing, before the games began.

Now, that was some real sidespin. It was somewhat more than what Cheetah puts. He hit one forehand which swung so deceptively in the opposite direction that I completely "lost" the line of the ball and it crashed into the fence behind me. First time I have been fooled this way. I thought such deception happens only in baseball and cricket.

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did he spin it to the inside, outside or use each side in different situations?

did he spin it to the inside, outside or use each side in different situations?

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His other side spins were of the Cheetah quality. By now I have enough experience to time them properly and the eyes can follow the ball without blur.

This one was what you would call an inside one I suppose. A right-handed forehand topspin would curve to the server's left after bounce - this one curved to his right (and into my backhand). I thought I got it and was totally fooled.

To add to the confusion, this junior is pretty unique. He (and his father) use a Battistone racket (the one with 2 handles). He has several variants - one hand on one handle, two on 2 handles, and their forehand and backhand variants. In addition, he also sometimes uses a left handed forehand as his backhand - and its single handle and double handle variations! It is like you are watching a juggler in action. I think very few will have this experience in their lifetime. The severest top and side spin come when he swings viciously with one hand on each handle of the racket.

I don't think many people can hit banana passing shots like Nadal at all, even pros (well not as good as him anyway). It's quite wasy to hit sidespin slice though. I think its a great shot you can use to pull the opponent wide; Murray does this a lot.

You know the ones: the ridiculous banana-shots the Nadal pulls off on the run or, more commonly, pros get on the slice backhand.

I was arguing with a friend about how important sidespin is. He argued that it is sidespin on the forehand can add an element of variety and can add a margin of error to already-difficult passing shots. Sidespin on the slice means that there is another factor for the opponent to deal with and the ball is less able to be hit away.

I believed that sidespin is a gimmick and impractical. I hit with a lot of topspin and can get spidespin if I try, but it adds little to the shot. Sidespin on passing shots is extremely difficult in practice and actually makes it harder to get the ball in, because it is hard to know where it is going. On the slice, sidespin can be helpful, but can easily cause excess lurching that will send the ball floating out.

TL;DR How helpful is sidespin? Do you guys find uses for it?

Click to expand...

Sidespin is incredibly important, hitting a hard forehand to my opponents backhand, when it lands it skids to the side, adding to their misery. Sidespin is a big part of the game, whether left or right, it's hard for an opponent to adjust to a ball that lands then moves out of their position.

Off the fh Cheetah is really good at it and uses it a lot. I'd be very surprised if the thejackel's balls don't have side spin on certain occasions. I didn't see it when we hit last week, but he definitely has the rhs and the stroke mechanics to produce it. He hits a very solid ball off both sides. Pretty much every high level player I've hit with hits side spin off the fh sometimes. FWIW, I do it too.

Cheetah does it off the bh as well. He hits a one hander. I rarely hit side spin off the bh. When I see that they're going to kick up high I'll usually take them on the rise and hit hard and flat.

I don't think many people can hit banana passing shots like Nadal at all, even pros (well not as good as him anyway). It's quite wasy to hit sidespin slice though. I think its a great shot you can use to pull the opponent wide; Murray does this a lot.

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Cheetah hits that banana passing shot dtl all of the time. He's pretty good at it and it pisses me off . I think a more Western grip really helps with that. It's a cool shot but there are other options too, especially for those of us with more E. grips.

I don't think it is very important except on the serve. The slice serve can be very effective and draw the opponent off the court. The lefty slice can also mess with you, if you don't get to play against lefties much.

On ground strokes, topspin is by far the most important spin, because it helps bring the ball down into the court, allowing you to hit harder and with more net clearance without going long. Side spin just makes a ball a little more difficult to return and can help make drop shots more effective by moving the ball farther from the opponent.

If you hit ground strokes you're probably also hitting some side spin whether you want to or not. It is usually easier to hit spin by pulling the racket toward the center of your body when hitting. The other famous side spin is the "banana" down-the-line running passing shot.

The standard side spin on the slice backhand is caused by pulling the racket in toward the center of the body. The "banana" shot is made by swinging the direction you're running and hooking the ball back into the court.

Off the fh Cheetah is really good at it and uses it a lot. I'd be very surprised if the thejackel's balls don't have side spin on certain occasions. I didn't see it when we hit last week, but he definitely has the rhs and the stroke mechanics to produce it. He hits a very solid ball off both sides. Pretty much every high level player I've hit with hits side spin off the fh sometimes. FWIW, I do it too.

Cheetah does it off the bh as well. He hits a one hander. I rarely hit side spin off the bh. When I see that they're going to kick up high I'll usually take them on the rise and hit hard and flat.

Side spin off the slice is just expected. Super common.

Cheetah hits that banana passing shot dtl all of the time. He's pretty good at it and it pisses me off . I think a more Western grip really helps with that. It's a cool shot but there are other options too, especially for those of us with more E. grips.

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I think you were also hitting side spin during our SD TW meetup on the 16th, were you not?

I think you were also hitting side spin during our SD TW meetup on the 16th, were you not?

Somehow it did not bother me that day.

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Yes, I hit some. It didn't seem to bother you. But the idea is that you throw little things in all of the time. Every thing you hit can take little digs out of your opponents. If you can make them miss enough that the ball goes a couple of inches long or into the tape then you've won.

Cheetah hits with more side spin and he can get that American Twist kick as well. You really have to keep your eye on the ball, especially the high ones.