posted at 11:58 am on June 24, 2008 by Ed Morrissey

The truce between Israel and Hamas managed to last five entire days before Hamas launched rockets at Israeli civilians. Islamic Jihad launched the attack as a response to an Israeli raid on their West Bank operations in which two IJ terrorists were killed, including one of their commanders. MS-NBC seems sympathetic to IJ’s claims that Israel broke the cease-fire:

Militants in the Hamas-controlled Gaza Strip fired at least two rockets into southern Israel on Tuesday, breaching a five-day-old cease-fire.

The attack came hours after Israeli troops killed two Palestinians in a West Bank raid. The victims included an Islamic Jihad commander. The militant group later claimed responsibility for firing the rockets, saying the attack was intended to avenge the Israeli operation.

The West Bank is not formally part of the Gaza truce. But the Israeli raid could be seen as violating the spirit of the cease-fire.

Say what? The Israelis didn’t attack Gaza, and they didn’t attack Hamas. They continued to work against those who plot to kill Israelis, and Islamic Jihad — the third leg in the Palestinian Triangle Strategy — has no standing in the cease-fire. How can MS-NBC “see” this as violating the “spirit” of the cease fire?

Hamas claimed Gaza as its territory and has responsibility for any actions that come out of the Strip. They agreed to the cease fire for Gaza and now have to account for the actions of their partners. If they can’t stop the missile attacks, then they have no standing to negotiate cease-fires at all.

More likely, this is the beginning of another Triangle Strategy play. Two Palestinian parties agree to a cease-fire agreement with the Israelis, while the third continues their attacks and their operations. When the Israelis respond, the other two claim that the Israelis broke their word and are the aggressors, and the cease-fire collapses.

Not even the Palestinians fall for this game any longer. Unfortunately, MS-NBC is more gullible than most.

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When will the lefty media and the left-tards in general get it through their thick skulls the Arabs in Palestine don’t want peaceful co-existence with Israel, that their true goal is to wipe Israel and all the Jews off the face of the earth!

With that said negotiations are futile when the goal and agenda of those you are negotiating with are the total opposite of peacful co-existence…are you listening Obamasiah?

MS-NBC has stopped being objective in their position on the United States and our allies for a long time. They represent the anti-American faction of our society and this should not be a surprise. Being owned by GE who has always done business with Iran while they are killing our troops should remove any doubt of their stance.

Now I hate to stir the pot (oh, who am I kidding? I love to stir the pot), but I seem to recall a lot of hand-wringing over this “truce” on a couple of threads here. I wrote something at the time about why are people worried about this truce, it’s just as pointless as the other ones that were agreed to.

I know this comment may be a bit harsh but personally if Israel is always going to be made out to be a monster then I believe Israel should cut off ALL supplies into Gaza and let the rats kill/eat each other!

It’s a catch-22, Israel is damned if they do and damned if they don’t so they may as well do what needs to be done to once and for all eradicate the Hamas (et al) roaches if they’re going to be vilified anyway!

Again, Hamas (et al) goals and agenda is not peaceful co-existence with Israel, it’s in the Hamas’ charter to destroy Israel/the Jews and their excuse/justification of “resistance against the occupiers” to legitimize their charter and the atrocities they commit always has been and always will be a crock of Shiite and anyone with half a brain cell knows this to be true…with that said it stands to reason the Obamasiah and his faithful followers don’t have half a brain cell between them!

MSNBC has, if not directly tied itself to sites like the Daily Kos, at the very least allowed them to become their guidepost for talking points, in the same way other big media outlets over the years have taken their cues from whatever the story is in that morning’s New York Times.

But as biased as the Times may be, they still have a certain sense of where the line can’t be crossed, before they marginalize themselves with all but a handful of their far left readers. Not so with sites like Kos, where anti-Israeli propaganda, and anti-Semitic rants, are out there for everyone to see. So if the staff at MSNBC is getting their anti-Bush/McCain/Fox News/Limbaugh/etc. talking points from sites like that, it wouldn’t be surprising that anti-Israeli riffs would start making their way into the news stories (I’m just surprised MSNBC let their exclusive deal with Pat Buchanan slip away, since his views on Israel would be right at home with most of the websites the news staff there has on their favorite bookmark list).

Hamas and Islamic Jihad are different organizations, and the two names should not be used interchangeably. Israel killed two Islamic Jihad members, and it was Islamic Jihad who claimed responsibility for the rocket fire.

Too many people have subscribed to the “Somebody’s in Charge” theory regarding Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Gaza Palestinians, and Other Palestinians.

This theory has been proven wrong for these groups many, many times. In fact, “Palestinian” is a totally artificial construct which has no basis in law or history. It is a complete waste of time to sign agreements with any of them.

To continue treating any of these groups as actual organizations with responsible leadership is both ignorant and insane.

Meanwhile, MS-NBC continues to prove itself incompetent and dishonest at news gathering and delivery: it is a total waste of bandwidth.

I would challenge anyone to show me a map made in an Arab country that has Isreal on it. On my two tours of the Middle East I tried to find one and failed. I think that is a good indicator of what the powers in the ME think of Isreal. Just a thought.

I was just thinking, other countries and territories around the world export food, energy, wine, clothes, services, labor, etc. to their neighbors and live in somewhat peace.

Let’s say that hamas gets everything they want.

What exactly do they offer to the world that anyone would want except for an undereducated improvished populace that will fall for any propoganda that those in power to arm and cause caos to the highest bidder?

Ed:
You bring up the “triangle strategy” that the Palestinians use to break truces. Why is it, then, that the Palestinians wanted the truce to cover both the West Bank and Gaza, and Israel refused? It is Israel that had the plan to get out of the truce. They simply refused to include the West Bank, knowing that by continuing to kill Palestinians there they could goad the Palestinians into responding. If Israel wanted a real truce, they would have simply included the West Bank.

Israel knew Islamic Jihad would respond, which is exactly why they killed the Islamic Jihad members.

That’s bull. The Israeli security services were arresting a “ticking bomb”. They had information of a terrorist attack about to take place in the West Bank. The terrorists declined to come quietly. They were killed. The Israelis didn’t kill them because they were PIJ members. They killed them because they were fired upon.

Rockets do not enter or leave Gaza without Hamas’ permission and knowledge. Why do you think there were five days of calm?

It is a fiction that Hamas can’t control PIJ. It is also a fiction that the Palestinians want a “real” truce. Hamas has stepped up weapons smuggling and training in the last five days.

But at a Friday sermon in Gaza, Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh said the deal did not include a ban on smuggling, and he would not enforce it on militants in the coastal strip.

Israel isn’t including the West Bank because that’s where most terrorist attacks originate. Checkpoints are still stopping Palestinians with bombs and weapons. If the Palestinians really wanted a truce, they would simply lay down their arms and stop trying to murder Israelis. As the saying goes, if the Arabs laid down their weapons, there would be peace. If the Israelis laid down their weapons, there would be no Israel.

They had information of a terrorist attack about to take place in the West Bank.

Yes. And the Americans had information about WMD in Iraq. Can you show me where your read this?

They killed them because they were fired upon.

Can you please tell me where you read this?

Israel isn’t including the West Bank because that’s where most terrorist attacks originate. Checkpoints are still stopping Palestinians with bombs and weapons

Can you show me an instance where Palestinians where stopped at a checkpoint trying to sneak bombs through? Why would they do this when they can simply jump the “fence.” According to this article, Israel’s channel two reported that over 17,000 Palestinian workers were arrested over a two months period, and over 2,500 in two weeks. If I wanted to bring a bomb into Israel, I’d climb the fence before trying to go through a checkpoint. So even with easy access to Israel, how many “terrorist” attacks have there been in Israel over the past couple years originating from the West Bank?

If the Palestinians really wanted a truce, they would simply lay down their arms and stop trying to murder Israelis.

In case you didn’t know, the vast majority of civilians murdered are Palestinians. I know, all Palestinians are “terrorists”. The Palestinians will put down their bottle rockets as soon as Israel puts down their tanks and F-16’s. That’s what’s called a truce. A truce has to be declared everywhere to work, however. Israel’s “Gaza not the West Bank” strategy of declaring a truce in one area while continuing to kill people in the other is not really a truce.

During the operation Abu Ra’ali barricaded himself in an apartment with another gunman and the two opened fire on the Israeli troops after refusing to turn themselves in.

The two were killed in the ensuing exchange of fire. A sweep of the apartment after the operation revealed several explosives devices, an AK-47 assault rifle, ammunition and other paramilitary equipment.

Ynet is a good source for news.

Can you show me an instance where Palestinians where stopped at a checkpoint trying to sneak bombs through?

IDF soldiers manning the Hawara checkpoint near the West Bank city of Nablus apprehended on Sunday an 18-year-old Palestinian who was carrying six pipe bombs, a bullet cartridge and a bag full of what appeared to be gunpowder.

[…] In recent years the army has foiled numerous attempts to smuggle explosives and weapons through Hawara, which is located south of Nablus. Three weeks ago a 20-year-old Palestinian carrying three explosive devices was shot dead by soldiers at the checkpoint.

There are multiple examples of Palestinians trying to sneak explosives through the checkpoints. They’ve used children on a regular basis.

So even with easy access to Israel, how many “terrorist” attacks have there been in Israel over the past couple years originating from the West Bank?

That’s because of several things: The fence in part, and also the Israeli security services’ intense work to find and expose terror plots before they happen. Why do you think Hamas is using rockets instead of blowing up buses now? Because they can’t. If they could, they’d be doing it. Israel has made it that much harder.

In case you didn’t know, the vast majority of civilians murdered are Palestinians.

That’s a false comparison. While it is true that numerically, more Palestinian civilians have been killed than Israeli civilians, when you compare actual statistics, a higher percentage of Israeli civilians has been killed. (Those stats have been updated but I can’t remember where at the moment.)

The reasons for the higher percentage: Palestinian terrorists deliberately target Israeli civilians. Israeli forces have been working for years to hit terrorists without causing civilian casualties; an impossible task due to the terrorists’ cowardly pratice of hiding in the civilian population. But compare the Palestinian civilian casualty rate this year with the one in 2004. Try not to use Palestinian statistics; they lie on a regular basis about whether the dead are civilians. (Funny how so many Palestinians were killed while out having a picnic near the site of rocket launchers.) Civilian casualty rates have gone down. Not so for terrorists, of course. And B’tselem has been known to cook the books as well. But even they acknowledge that Palestinian civilian deaths are down significantly.

Ma’an News is a Palestinian news outlet that cannot be counted as a reliable news organization. Its editors can’t even do simple math that would show that Israel is NOT violating the agreement to let more goods into Gaza.

I know, all Palestinians are “terrorists”.

Nice little bit of slander there, dave. I never said that.

The Palestinians will put down their bottle rockets as soon as Israel puts down their tanks and F-16’s.

Meryl Yourish:
Your Yedioth Ahronoth news sources disagree wildly with other eyewitness reports of the incident. Let’s just say the incident is disputed. Your Ynet story about smugglilng pipe bombs through a checkpoint is especially silly. Why would someone do this when they can simply climb the fence?

You say that Palestinians lie, and the Israelis at B’tselem lie, so I guess I can only trust the IDF. I’ve seen your B’tselem rebutals before, but haven’t gotten around to writing something up on it. I guess I will do it now that I’ve been shown it yet again. Next time.

You showed me how great it is that Israel only killed 131 Palestinian civilians in 2006 vs. 348 the year before. Fine. But in 2006 17 Israeli civilians were killed. That’s a difference.

Ma’an News is a Palestinian news outlet that cannot be counted as a reliable news organization

They were quoting Israeli news. You’re saying they simply lied? When they quote Israel sources that thousands are coming over the fence, the real number is zero? Is the photo also a lie?

Is this true for Hezbollah terrorists as well? Because here are some numbers from the 2006 war (off the top of my head – they are close enough):

Israeli civilians killed: 20
Israeli soldiers killed: 120

Lebanese civilians killed: over 1,000 (and counting, since they are still dying due to the two million plus cluster bomblets the civilian-conscious Israel dropped 24 hours before the end of the war)
Hezbollah soldiers killed: 250 max

So terrorists aim for civilians, but they kill 6 times as many soldiers as civilians. Israel works tirelessly to not kill civilians, but they kill four times as many civilians as fighters.
Either the terrorists are terrible at targeting civilians, or Israel is terrible at avoiding civilians

Meryl Yourish:
I started to look at your “Engineered tragedy” report in order to start checking it. Problem is, absolutely nothing is sourced. B’tselem gives details for each and every incident that occurs. ICT gives nothing except totals which cannot be verified. It’s a joke. The report on the ICT website claims at the end that incidents can be searched here, but regardless of what is searched you get either “no incidents found” or an error message. This paper is a joke without being able to access data. I will restrict my future reading to verifying B’tselem’s information, which is sourced. I have looked at bB’tselem critiques before, and they are a joke. Just need to write something up.

dave742: You asked for cites. I gave you cites. You now say you won’t accept any of my cites, and yet, you respond with no further cites of your own. I gave you a clear example where Ma’an is incapable of performing simple math to determine that Arab spokesmen were lying about Israel not keeping to the truce agreement, and you insist that Ma’an is a reliable news agency. You cite no “eyewitness” reports to counter my Ynet news article, yet you discount the Ynet account.

We’re done. I’m going to talk to the wall. I find it far more responsive.

You gave me an article where at most a stupid math mistake was made and you discount everything from that news agency until the end of time. This is ridiculous. Besides, the conclusion is not necessarily significant. Food supplies would more accurately be measured by the pound, not the lorry load. So maybe Israel shipped 20% more food supplies by the pound and simply shipped it in 33% more lorries. Grow up.

You cite no “eyewitness” reports to counter my Ynet news article

Maybe you can staret with the MSNBC article linked to in the thread by Morrissey:
“A neighbor said a Palestinian bystander was also shot to death by troops when he opened the door of his apartment during the raid.”