There are some numbers in there that surprise me. One is that Linux spread is higher than I expected and MacOS spread is lower than I expected. I also expected Java 7 to be more popular already but it seems Java 6 is still the main platform to support.

Still these are readings from programmers, not 'normal people'. The readings are more interesting when creating development tools

I use a mixture of Lion and Windows 7. Both have strengths and weaknesses. The main the reason I use Lion is because of its clean look and the fact that Screenflow, my favorite screencasting software, is exclusive to Mac. Sometimes I do think it's a bit clumsy though. Windows 7 is a solid OS, which supports many more programs that Mac does. I use it for gaming and programming, since I really don't like using a Logitech keyboard on a Mac. It can get a bit sluggish if I'm not careful, but if I regularly delete unused programs, that's not an issue.π

Linux here, but have Windows XP on one harddrive as well to play a few old games. And if you take that one step further I also have my old Amiga around to play even older games. Looks like I'm collecting one OS per decade on average.

I'm really very much enjoying Windows 7 Ultimate N right now As people say... like Vista but with all the wrong things fixed. I've tweaked my taskbar to be more or less like it was before, only better.

I used to be quite a bit vocal about how much I disliked the new Metro layout of Windows 8, but with all the awesome other improvements, especially multiple-screen support, I might just upgrade with the rest of the sheep

Im shure there will be Win 8 Plugins soon, wich reestablish the former Win7 look.Just as Im using a plugin to have the classic dropdown Menu in Word.., the classic menu + the new tabbed Menubar work quite well together.But just having one option is crap. And I prefere the classic style then.

But then, even if Win8 runs like Win7, Why change?

Especially non technical users are forced to use the new Metro thing.Whats not default is not there. And If they want to do more than browse (the browser replaces the OS more and more)They will sit in confusion. -> lots of people dont want to spend precious time learning a new concept justto start their Excel and Filebrowser. They want to use it.

Microsoft obviously feels the panic to loose their stance, so they thake the risk and move ahead witha new concept.(I hope they fail with that)

-> more support for Linux then

in The end, I have my iPad for doing tablet stuff.But my PC for work. (Linux for programming and browsing, Win7 for games)Dont see them coming together.

Just as noone ever managed for centuries to put together spoon,fork and knife into one tool, I see them asseperate system for quite some time.-> Work systems vs casual relaxing systems...

This way you save making (and learning) a native Linux port."Tested on Wine" stamp.

sure but what do you do, as a developer if it works fine on windows but not on wine ?you do get a log/console when running wine, but it might be very dubious things that aren't working and... might not be that easy

But I agree, Wine is daft. Hardly going to convince developers to port games to Linux if they can just tell you, "meh use Wine and go away, hippy."

The main thing that I find daft about the project is that the devs persistently ice skate uphill. For every bug fixed it seems two new ones are introduced. And how would it be any other way, this project must be a complete monster. Big respect for the people that keep up development on it, but it seems like such a futile effort since it will probably always have hundreds of little breakdowns.

Interesting to read an interview with Gabe Newell recently about why Valve are investing in Steam for Linux (or for now Ubuntu), which generally seems to be down to Windows 8 and in particular a fear for where Microsoft is going with regards the Windows Store. 2012 is proving to be an interesting year for gaming on Linux - that some of the impetus for that is down to Microsoft is doubly pleasing!

But I agree, Wine is daft. Hardly going to convince developers to port games to Linux if they can just tell you, "meh use Wine and go away, hippy."

Though I've got impression that these kind of people would just say that "sorry it doesn't work in Linux" if Wine wasn't available. Existence of Wine is very orthogonal (and useful for users) to availability of native Linux ports. There must be actual will to support Linux, in that case things like winelib can be useful and if done well (integrating with linux things of doing, using eg. GTK for GUI if any, properly tested, etc.) I would consider that as full port (it's just library after all).

The main thing that I find daft about the project is that the devs persistently ice skate uphill. For every bug fixed it seems two new ones are introduced. And how would it be any other way, this project must be a complete monster. Big respect for the people that keep up development on it, but it seems like such a futile effort since it will probably always have hundreds of little breakdowns.

Yes that's quite awful, though not sure if some different development approach would be better. Probably it's just result of many things interacting with others in real apps that it's quite unpredictable. Remember they're replicating undocumented APIs and behaviour, and as we've seen with alternative Java implementations (not based on OpenJDK) it can be very hard (close to impossible) to be really compatible to the last bit and last (good or bad) behaviour of class/method, even when quite well documentated.

And I would always prefer to have half-broken Wine than no Wine (esp. when different versions are broke in different ways so one can find the right combination at least ). It was quite useful many times. And it's great to run old stuff.

Well it turns out that it's a piece of piss if you use Java <Sudden massive double take>

Java is just language like any other. Most languages also have their runtimes. What matters if you follow the standard way of doing things on target platform, or if you're importing some alien ways (don't do that).

Java is absolutely not just a language like any other! Java the language runs atop Java the platform, and the platform does a very good job indeed of abstracting away a lot of OS specific crap. It even abstracts away the binary compatibility for the most part which is very nice.

Java is absolutely not just a language like any other! Java the language runs atop Java the platform, and the platform does a very good job indeed of abstracting away a lot of OS specific crap. It even abstracts away the binary compatibility for the most part which is very nice.

Most languages run on their own "platform" defined by it's standard library API and language specifics. If it has VM or it's compiled or whatever is just minor (implementation) detail. Any of better crossplatform libs abstract stuff away, crossplatform languages have such libraries as standard library. You're too much into believing that Java is something extremely special. Sure the combo of all properties are unique, but that can be said about any language and it's combo of properties.

There were, are and will be quite amount of languages working like Java's JVM (platform). It's nothing new or special.

@jezek2: although I understand the position you're taking...it's kinda silly. There's a significant logical difference between pre-compiled and dynamically compiled environments. It's similar the asm folks saying that everything is just sugar for asm or LISP folk saying all languages are just broken versions of LISP.

@jezek2: although I understand the position you're taking...it's kinda silly. There's a significant logical difference between pre-compiled and dynamically compiled environments. It's similar the asm folks saying that everything is just sugar for asm or LISP folk saying all languages are just broken versions of LISP.

Sure. But this was from outside view (from OS / user view) and from there it's just like any other language. We're talking about making Linux (or whatever else) ports written in some language. princec asserted it's harder with Java to make native app. I say that's it's just like with any other language, and what matters is to follow the practice for given platform. This means you can use cross platform libs for like 95% of code, but the last 5% must be platform specific. There is more than enough ways how to achieve that in Java. This is same for Java or say C++ using some crossplatform library.

Er, I think that's the exact opposite to what I was asserting. It's a piece of piss to make a native looking app with Java! It'd be nice if the JDK actually came with tools to do it but as it is they're not hard to find or do yourself. It's a very very small proportion of the effort that goes into deployment.

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