Anne Phelan

Broadcast 6.30pm on 13/10/2004

Anne Phelan, actor and campaigner

GEORGE NEGUS: Well, as a society, do we Australians discriminate against the more elderly among us? Are we just a little prejudiced against them when it comes, for instance, to employing them? Well, yes or no, there's no doubt one of the industries where it's toughest for older Australians to get work is this one, the film and television business, traditionally obsessed, as it were, with youth. Well, Anne Phelan is one of this country's most recognisable character actors. For instance, you would have seen her in the ABC's 'Something in the Air' program, which actually preceded GNT in this 6:30 timeslot.

Anne, good to see you.

ANNE PHELAN, ACTRESS: Thank you. Yes, you pinched our timeslot.

GEORGE NEGUS: Yeah, I know. And I was a 'Something in the Air' fan.

Tell me, ageism  if I said to you, because I know that you are very, very deeply involved in the whole question of what our attitude towards the elderly in this country ought to be  if I said to you, "What's ageism?", what would you say?

ANNE PHELAN: Yeah, it's this obsession with the look of youth, with body image. You mentioned 'Something in the Air', which I think is a lovely example of portraying realistically that wide age group. And it's not about... I don't think it's about... Firstly, I'm not here to say, you know, make employment for older actors. It's not what it's about. What we're saying is that at the moment there is not a realistic interpretation of Australian life.

GEORGE NEGUS: Well, we talk about living in an ageing population. But it isn't seen in every other walk of life.

ANNE PHELAN: You look at any show and you'll have the token over-50 in it.

GEORGE NEGUS: What is it about this country, then? I mean, in China, the elderly are venerated. In Mediterranean countries, they're idolised and they're treated as the most important commodity that the country's got because they've got wisdom and experience to pass on. But here, we tend to put people out to pasture.

ANNE PHELAN: Mmm. Look, this is strictly a personal opinion of mine. And it's so deep and meaningful, I sometimes astound myself. We tend to think we're a very young country because most of us think of Australia from white invasion.

GEORGE NEGUS: Mmm. 200-odd years.

ANNE PHELAN: I just have a sneaking suspicion that because we, as Australians, have never come to terms as a nation of our background and where this country comes from, we have no sense of history. And therefore, we have no sense of the wisdom of the elder. It's almost like if we accept elders and the wisdom of older people, we have to accept the elders of this country.

GEORGE NEGUS: Is it the fact that because we're such a fast-buck, high-tech society that we don't think experience counts for anything?

ANNE PHELAN: But isn't it interesting how  I don't know  I hope industry reflects it, but the turnaround that's happening? I mean, firms are rehiring those people that they laid off 10 years ago.

GEORGE NEGUS: That's a sign of something, isn't it?

ANNE PHELAN: It's a sign they've made a bloody big mistake.

GEORGE NEGUS: Yeah. You're just not getting it off your chest on this program. You're getting it off your chest in other ways. You've got yourself deeply involved in a Victorian Government campaign aimed at smartening up our attitude towards the elderly.

ANNE PHELAN: Yeah, I think it's a fantastic initiative, put together last year, to basically find out a way for us to convince networks, and that's what we're concentrating on, we're concentrating on producers...

GEORGE NEGUS: So using television as the vehicle?

ANNE PHELAN: Television and film. To convince the advertising people. Because also the figures... This book you just were showing there, the figures are there. The ageing population has the money to spend. So why are you aiming shows at 18-to-35-year-olds when actually the spending capacity for the advertising dollar is with the over-50s?

GEORGE NEGUS: You're hitting them where they care most.

ANNE PHELAN: Well, you'd think...

GEORGE NEGUS: Where they can make money.

ANNE PHELAN: Common sense, George. There's a lot of that lacking.

GEORGE NEGUS: But you're obviously getting some satisfaction out of the fact that you can actually say these things officially and publicly because the Government says, "Yes, we do have a problem."

ANNE PHELAN: If you don't show the true pattern of age, and by that I mean young and old and middle and all in between, A, what wonderful stories we're missing out on, the opportunities. Writers love writing for the old and the young and the middle and all mixed up together because that's what life's about. The conflict is much better. It's much more interesting seeing a scene between an 18-year-old and a 50-year-old with the right conflict than it is a few 18-year-olds or a few 50-year-olds.

GEORGE NEGUS: All saying basically the same thing.

ANNE PHELAN: Yeah. Writers and producers want it. I really do believe it's networks. But also, I think, that will filter out. I think there would be a lot more respect from older people to young. And I think that's just as bad as sometimes the disrespect between young and old, young of old.

GEORGE NEGUS: I think, one way or another, we've worked out some sort of working definition of ageism and what an ageist is.

ANNE PHELAN: Is that what I was here to do?

GEORGE NEGUS: Yeah. I just wanted to say to you in leaving, I just wanted to say I hope you grow old disgracefully.

ANNE PHELAN: Oh, I have every intention. As long as someone does it with me!

GEORGE NEGUS: Lovely to see you.

ANNE PHELAN: Thanks, George. Terrific.

GEORGE NEGUS: I'm sure that people will listen, the way you are putting it. It's fantastic.