Posted
by
CmdrTaco
on Tuesday August 02, 2011 @08:51AM
from the now-you're-playing-with-power dept.

An anonymous reader writes "A 31 year old Swedish male was arrested for trying to build a nuclear reactor in his apartment. He got hold of radioactive material thru mail-order purchases and from smoke detectors. Police raided his apartment after he had contacted the Swedish Radiation Authority (Strålsäkerhetsmyndigheten) to inquire if it was legal to construct a nuclear reactor at home."

How exactly one goes about building a nuclear reactor from mail order uranium (presumably depleted) and smoke detectors (about 1 microgram of Americium 241 each) ? The critical mass of Am 241 is over 50 Kg, so he would need 50 million smoke detectors to build a bomb. For a controlled, moderated reaction, much more, maybe hundreds of Kg. The technology to enrich natural uranium up to reactor-grade level is barely in the hands of states.

The fact that someone took him seriously and actually sent a guy with a detector AND a police squad to his house shows just how ridiculously incompetent the regulators are, and how paranoid people get when the word "radiation" is uttered.

As an explosion risk, this guy ranks well below a kid with a pack of sparklers. However, I can see taking some precautions around anyone who has been playing with Am241-containing items in any atypical quantity...

That stuff is a reasonably zesty alpha emitter, and modestly well absorbed if taken internally, which isn't a good mix. If some noob has been fucking around, it is hardly unreasonable to take the precautionary step of assuming that he's manage to produce a bunch of toxic and radioactive dust.

I'm sure they were more worried about the radioactive material itself than the possibility he would actually succeed at building a reactor. He was never going to build a working reactor, but it's quite possible he might have acquired enough radioactive material to make himself and his neighbors very sick.

He told the newspaper that had he succeeded in building a nuclear reactor, generating any power would probably have proved beyond him.
"To get it to generate electricity you would need a turbine and a generator and that is very difficult to build yourself," he told HD.

He also claims he had been using a geiger counter and had not detected "a problem" with the radiation.

If the police had come with a search warrant, and arrested him if they found evidence that he was doing something illegal, that would be reasonable. But arresting him merely because he asked permission to make a reactor is silly.

I really want to agree here but, this is one of those areas that tests my resolve a bit.

Look at the pictures on this guys blog. He blew up a container that he was working in and contaminated his whole stove area. Who knows what other messes this guy was making. Did you see the pictures of the original Radioactive Boyscout recently? (when he was caught stealing smoke detectors).

Admittedly, they are doing some cool stuff, and I have no qualms about them putting their own lives at risk for the love of their ho

Arlo: "Littering." And they all moved away from me on the benchthere, and the hairy eyeball and all kinds of mean nasty things, till Isaid, "And creating a nuisance." And they all came back, shook my hand,and we had a great time...

P.S. There is a good ending to this story: follow the links to the blog of Neil Fraser, a Google engineer who bailed the guy out after he spent seven months in jail, accused of, since video recording police is not illegal... "attempted lynching"....

Choice quote: "To get it to generate electricity you would need a turbine and a generator and that is very difficult to build yourself".

On its face, the quote is correct. A turbine and generator would be hard to build yourself. From scratch.

However, you can go to an automotive junkyard and pick up a used turbo unit for a few bucks, and while you're there, you can pick up an alternator, too. Now the problem is no harder than piping the steam from a pressure cooker through the turbo, and hooking the turbo to the alternator. Just add fission and you're on the grid!

A lot of people are playing with homemade turbine engines made from junked car parts. Perhaps they are deliberately trying to make it sound hard to discourage other Swedes with too many smoke detectors from trying a similar experiment.

That would get you out some electricity. Building it as a continuously-operating system is somewhat trickier.

Even trickier than that is getting it into your house power grid, which means syncing up the AC and other EE-grade power issues. You can buy the device you need, but it would end up costing more than just buying power from the power company, and be less convenient. (Plus, he was doing it in an apartment, probably without direct access to the mains.)

He didn't want to generate power, just do a little tinkering. He might well have hooked it up to a junk generator at some point, just to prove he could, but it wasn't the point. And the authorities were right to get nervous about it: the materials are toxic as well as radioactive, and putting more lives at risk than his. Get yourself a shed in the middle of nowhere next time.

Why assume he wanted electricity? A subcritical pile makes heat. Heat is energy, heat is expensive. It gets cold in europe in the winter. Stack the pile in your furnace in the winter, unstack it in the summer so it doesn't make heat. Easy peasy. Only real problem is the toxic result of fission. Also libyans might try to steal your pile, so send a HS kid back in time to tell you when you need to wear a bullet proof vest. Easy.

Personally I would be a bit leery of an old junk yard turbo since most people who have a turbo car don't bother to take care of it, like let the car idle so the turbo cools off so you don't scorch the oil in it before shutting the car off, or doing regular oil changes. Now if it was off a relatively new car that was just totaled then I wouldn't be anywhere near a leery. But it is easily doable.

And somehow you don't see it as a big deal that they are denying someone's freedom? Being arrested -is- a big deal because it often causes more damage than being charged with a crime.

Chances are slim that the government will pay you for the emotional trauma of being arrested, the loss to your reputation if you are arrested and all other effects of you being arrested even if you aren't charged with a crime in the end.

I also don't like a police state where you can get arrested for no apparent reason. But it's not like there was "no apparent reason". He was playing with goddamn nuclear material!

What should the police have done according to all you complaining people? Kindly request that he refrains from building a nuclear reactor, and that he delivers the nuclear material before noon the next day, because although it's a grey area in the law, it's best not to play with it in a residential area?

But the problem was that it is not even illegal to do that in Sweden. It is only a legal "greyzone", and there is no laws for it either.

I'm sure Sweden has laws against things like reckless endangerment. That Americium is some nasty crap. It's not as toxic as Plutonium, but it's no fun.

Forget radioactivity for a minute. How would you feel if it turned out that your neighbor had been growing ebola cultures in his living room because he was convinced he could find a cure? I doubt if there are any specific laws against growing your own ebola cultures, but I'll damn sure betcha it's against plenty of laws that are on the books.

I am presuming that you are British? In the UK being "arrested" merely means being questioned. It has little to no long term consequences. In other countries being "arrested" means actually being formally charged with an offence. An ""arrest" record stays on your record forever and many job interviewers specifically ask if one has ever been "arrested". As this is a public record it means answering it in the affirmative and hoping that the interviewer listens to your side of the experience. But many would j

He wasn't even an Eagle Scout at the time. He earned that later. Can you imagine if he was an Eagle Scout? I bet you he either would have figured out some awesome new method for nuclear power generation or would have died in the process as so many Eagle Scouts seem to do in the name of progress (Roger Chaffee, Ellison Onizuka, William McCool).

he was questioned by the police because he apparently violated some Swedish nuclear material laws.

the story in short:- he invested $950- he bought radioactive material and dismantled one domestic fire alarm- he blogged about his expirements- he asked the Swedish authorities if it is allowed to build a nuclear reactor- some official accompanied by police offices visited his flat and found no radiation problem- he was questioned at a police stations and was afterwards released- all the nuclear stuff was confiscated

Now if he had unlicensed non-exempt sources, I can see why they'd throw the book at him and confiscate it all. I'd even more or less support it. I have friends who are in charge of non-exempt sources and the legal require

If its a non-stolen legally exempt source under the overseas country laws (probably USA) and also is a legally exempt source under local laws (most likely) and if he followed the export/import/shipping laws (hmm, getting complicated here, but for exempt sources its generally not a big deal) then it doesn't matter.

People/companies ship radioactive material overseas, perfectly legally, all the time. Even the non-exempt stuff is really no big deal even when you follow all the laws, most of which are common

He was not trying to generate electricity - "To get it to generate electricity you would need a turbine and a generator and that is very difficult to build yourself," he told HD. He was just tinkering! Obviously a DIY purist. This guy should get a geek medal or something. Utterly brilliant. And I am very pleased I'm not his neighbour.

This kid [wikipedia.org] tried (badly, apparently) to do the same in the US a while back. I lived only a couple of streets over, but had left the area a dozen years before his attempt. I think I delivered newspapers to his house.

Is it really necessary to raid a guy who was asking for permission in the first place? Seems like he would have welcomed an "inspection" and handled things accordingly from there. Since he was asking for permission it sounds like he wasn't trying to break the law - give the guy some credit. All this is going to do is discourage others from inquiring and just doing whatever they're after.

Yes - didn't you know? Terrorists always go through airport TSA security checkpoints, illegal immigrants always arrive by air, and people who seek to build weapons of mass destruction always ask for permission from the government beforehand!

Is it really necessary to raid a guy who was asking for permission in the first place?

Ask permission first and you get licensed to work with non-exempt sources. No problemo.

F around and ask stupid questions after already doing it, they're gonna come down like a ton of bricks.

Try building an addition onto your house once by acquiring a building permit before starting work, and once by acquiring a building permit after the work is complete, and report back on which experience was more "fun".

FTB (From the Blog)"Wednesday, I was arrested and sent to jail, when the police and the Swedish Radiation Safety Authory searched my apartment. They took all my radioactive stuff, but I was released after a hearing. But I am still suspekt for crime against the radiation safety law.

I was ordered by the police to get out of the building with my hands up, then three men came, with geiger-counters and searched me. Then I was placed in a police-car, when Radiation Safety Authory went into my apartmen

In theory (because the whole dirty bomb theory has never actually happened and is just a security theatre bogey man myth). In actual historical fact, fertiliser bombs HAVE had effects lasting for decades. Oslo city centre will never be the same for instance.

The effect of the last terrorist attack have already lasted a decade with no end in sight, and they affect the whole nation and arguably the whole world. So we are debating if we are more worried about loosing my right arm than our left arm.

I'm puzzled how this guy was going to build a "nuclear reactor" out of mail-order isotopes and smoke detectors. Smoke detectors usually contain Am-241, which is an alpha emitter. The mail order stuff I assume was uranium ore. Was he planning to create neutrons from (alpha, n) reactions and use those to trigger a few fissions from the uranium?

This sounds like his experiment bears as much similarity to a reactor as a balloon full of hairspray resembles a car engine.

Don't worry, just hide behind your newspaper. That will be all you need to stop alpha particle radiation.

Now after the Americium-241 degrades into Cm or plutonium, that is another matter. For the neutron radiation a good thick wall of lead should do it. Just keep that tucked inside your closet for easy access.

That's pretty stupid, overall. He should've done his research before doing some experiments, and the government shouldn't've gone in with a vengeance.
As far as silly ways to get arrested, though, it's sillier than getting arrested for making moonshine in the US. http://www.burningstill.com/?q=node/57 [burningstill.com]

With little gems on his blog page like "But I tried to cook Americium, Radium and Beryllium in 96% sulphuric-acid, to easier get them blended.", accompanied by photos of goop spilled all over his kitchen stove, I kinda agree with the authorities here....

He was obviously making a good faith effort to find out the relevant laws and comply. He bought freely available materials over-the-counter so to speak. This isn't a bad guy but rather a curious one and justice is not served by punishing him. As some point people have forgotten that the law is guideline to justice and that actual justice should be served by the system, not strict compliance with the letter of the law.

Considering he was doing this in his own home, with a risk of irradiating his neighbours, I think it was right to stop him experimenting. If he did it in a properly shielded location then it wouldn't be so bad.

Considering he was doing this in his own home, with a risk of irradiating his neighbours, I think it was right to stop him experimenting. If he did it in a properly shielded location then it wouldn't be so bad.

No one seems able to answer if his sources were exempt or non-exempt. Thats the key.

As for the "properly shielded location" that is pretty irrelevant, if he had to dough to own a pig and pay inspection fees, unless he's trying to make a political statement, the paperwork to make it perfectly legal would be pretty easy, depending on what he's doing.

Exempt sources are technically radioactive, and great for experimenting and fooling around, and the level of radiation is right up there with a granite counterto

So what you're saying is that it should be perfectly permissible for someone to tinker with chemically dangerous and radioactive chemicals in an apartment building where he will surrounded by other people? Some of those other people being the particularly vulnerable kids and the elderly? The danger here isn't that he could be building a bomb, the danger is that large concentrations of radioactive material is inherently unhealthy. There was no one to make sure he stored it properly, didn't have too much o

Keep in mind that you are replying to Reacher Gilt. If his neighbors get irradiated or killed, they can organize a boycott and let the invisible hand of the market take care of it. After being brutally boycotted, nobody else would ever dare try it again. That's why the police are unnecessary. If you get robbed, simply spread the word. People will not do business with the robber, and then he will starve to death. Much cleaner. You can't have the police stop him. See, he has unlimited and inalienable freedom. If you stop a murderer from murdering a child, you have stolen his freedom to murder, his natural and inalienable right. Without government in the way, he would be totally free to do so.

I don't think there was any indication in the article that this was anything to do with terrorism. See my comment above about fertiliser. If you fear terrorism you will see it everywhere. If you don't then you will not necessarily associate any particular material object with terrorism.

That distinction would be wrong to gloss over. While it is relatively easy to build a nuclear reactor (not a safe one, mind), building a nuclear weapon (and merely producing or handling weapons-grade nuclear material) requires technological and industrial resources beyond any individual. Therefore, this is not nuke material. It is at worst usable in a dirty bomb.

My understanding is that you can get some very low level radioactive material through mail order. I worked at a company that had some for testing semiconductors against to ensure that they were properly hardened against radiation. I have also seen Geiger counter calibration kits sold as well so it doesn't seem unreasonable since he was probably buying stuff slightly more radio active than a granite counter top.

If by "nuclear material" you mean legally exempt sources, there's a couple places. United nuclear is a marketer/reseller of the actual suppliers. Kind of like digikey and mouser do not manufacture resistors, they resell them. By legal definition exempt sources are harmless; don't sweat it.

If by "nuclear material" you mean legally non-exempt sources, there's a couple perfectly legal places. Just submit your valid non-expired NRC licensing information, which they'll verify, and then ship the goods. If I

"Tiny" nuclear reactors can be as small as 9 inches by 16 inches, as in the SNAP-10 used to power a spacecraft in the 1960s (this was a full-fledged nuclear reactor, not an RTG). Much much smaller than a hot tub.