[HvH] Deck Building Thread.

Remember the rules for building a deck in Heroes & Heralds. Your first card is your primary card - you will receive only the primary effect of that card. The other two cards are secondary, and you will only receive the secondary effects of those cards. You may use multiple copies of the same card (well, someone in the preview did).

Some effects will have a [Lv1] next to them. This not only indicates that there are [Lv2], [Lv3], and [LvMAX] versions of the same effect on other cards, but that it is possible to combine those effects to add together their levels (LvMAX is equivalent to 4, so you can get it with 3+1, 2+1+1, or 2+2.).

I've started to list down some card effects and their strengths at Lv1/2/3/MAX on page two. Keep in mind that this thread is a work in progress (mainly because the last 10% of the cards refuse to get in my collection). What you see here today might not be here tomorrow....

The recent post listing every H&H card is great, but it lacks order - cards are listed by Capcom/Marvel and then seemingly by what game/comic that character is from. It's a mess if you're trying to find cards of a similar purpose or figure out what cards might have synergy. So...

SPECIAL(SEC) - Thanos - Performing a pushblock grants you meter [Lv MAX] (The amount of meter gained is 1. You do not gain it all at once, but over 12 seconds.)(PRI) - Godot - Switch meters with opponent when you use XF(PRI) - The Watcher - Gain health [Lv3] and meter [Lv3] every 20 seconds(SEC) - The Watcher - Gain health [Lv2] and meter [Lv2] every 30 seconds(SEC) - Felynes - Launching your opponent with S steals health and meter from the opponent

LEVEL THREE
====on supers(PRI) - Captain Commando Team - Team Hyper Combos steal meter from the opponent [Lv3] and increase Attack [Lv3](PRI) - Lilith - Supers drain your opponent's meter on hit [Lv3] (unsure if this is stealing or simply causes meter loss)(SEC) - Devilot - Steals health and meter from the opponent when you land a DHC [Lv3]
====during x-factor(PRI) - Miles Edgeworth - Gain meter when you use XF [Lv3]

LEVEL TWO
====requires activation(PRI) - June - Gain meter when you throw your opponent [Lv2](PRI) - Sissel - Gain meter when one of your characters is KO'd [Lv2](PRI) - X - Gain meter when you KO an enemy character [Lv2]. Increased Attack [Lv2](PRI) - Chuck Greene - Gain meter when you land a 30 hit combo [Lv2]
====during x-factor(SEC) - Miles Edgeworth - Gain meter when you use XF [Lv2]
====conditionally(PRI) - Princess - Gain meter when you are down to last character [Lv2]. Rapid cancel ground normals at the cost of meter (but not command normals)(PRI) - Howard the Duck - Gain meter [Lv2] and XF activates when you are hit by a 30-hit combo
====periodic(PRI) - Clea - Gain meter every 20 seconds [Lv2]

LEVEL THREE(PRI) - Ultron - Gain super armor while in the air (costs meter when hit) [Lv1]. Increases flight duration [Lv3](PRI) - Nina - Increases flight duration [Lv3]. Increases number of special moves that can be done in the air [Lv3]

LEVEL TWO(PRI) - Wasp - Increases Movement Speed. Increases flight duration [Lv2](SEC) - Ultron - Increases speed while in the air. Increaes flight duration [Lv2](SEC) - Wasp - Increases flight duration [Lv2]. Increases number of special moves that can be done in the air [Lv1](SEC) - Nina - Increases flight duration [Lv2]. Increases number of special moves that can be done in the air [Lv1]

(PRI) - Nina - Increases flight duration [Lv3]. Increases number of special moves that can be done in the air [Lv3](SEC) - Nina - Increases flight duration [Lv2]. Increases number of special moves that can be done in the air [Lv1](SEC) - Wasp - Increases flight duration [Lv2]. Increases number of special moves that can be done in the air [Lv1]

(PRI) - Princess - Gain meter when you are down to last character [Lv2]. Rapid cancel ground normals at the cost of meter (but not command normals)(SEC) - Sabretooth - Rapid cancel ground normals at the cost of meter (but not command normals)

Spoiler:

(PRI) - Black Widow - Jump cancel moves at the cost of meter. Increases number of jumps [Lv1] (Presumably this means you can jump cancel air moves as well)(SEC) - Black Widow - Jump cancel ground moves at the cost of meter

(PRI) - AKIRA - When you perform a taunt: Increases Attack [Lv2] and allows you to cancel a special move into a special move at the cost of meter.(PRI) - Doctor Octopus - Increases Attack [Lv1]. Cancel a special move into a special move at the cost of meter(SEC) - Daredevil - Cancel a special move into a special move at the cost of meter, but cannot see your opponent's meter(SEC) - Serpent - Enables 6-chain combos. Cancel a special move into a special move at the cost of meter.

(PRI) - Demitri Maximoff - Your opponent starts the match with less meter [Lv1] Invisibility after performing a Snapback(PRI) - Nightcrawler - When you have 3 or more meters, your dashes are invisible (includes air dashes)(PRI) - Spider-Ham - You become invisible and are healed [Lv2] when hit by a 30-hit combo(SEC) - Demitri Maximoff - Invisibility after performing a Snapback(SEC) - Nightcrawler - When you have 3 or more meters, your ground dashes are invisible(SEC) - Spider-Ham - You become invisible and are healed [Lv1] when hit by a 30-hit combo

you just lost it(PRI) - Nick Fury - When down to your last character and brought to 5% health or lower, you will be healed [Lv2](PRI) - Loki - Gradually gain health [Lv2] when down to your last character and below 50% health(PRI) - Sakuya - When down to last character, gradually gain Health [Lv3]. Gradually gain meter [Lv2](PRI) - Princess - Gain meter when you are down to last character [Lv2]. Rapid cancel ground normals at the cost of meter (but not command normals)(PRI) - Astaroth - Increased Attack [Lv2]. Revives your last character once, but at the cost of 3 bars(PRI) - Myria - Gradually gain Health [Lv3] and assists gradually gain Health [Lv1] when you are losing(SEC) - Myria - Gradually gain Health [Lv2] and assists gradually gain Health [Lv1] when you are losing(SEC) - Astaroth - Increased Attack [Lv1]. Revives your last character once, but at the cost of 5 bars(SEC) - Steven Champan - When you are down to last character, gain super armor, but cannot block [Lv1] (uses meter when hit)(SEC) - Sakuya - When down to last character, gradually gain Health [Lv2]. Gradually gain meter [Lv1](SEC) - Loki - Gradually gain health [Lv1] when down to your last character and below 20% health(SEC) - Scarlet Witch - Longer XF duration [Lv1] when down to your last character and their health is below 20%(SEC) - Godot - Gradually gain meter when down to last character and below 50% health [Lv1]

Lists aside, it's time to discuss actual deck building. Though it's a little too early to tell what's popular and what people are going to be running, looking over the list shows a couple of cards that seem very noteworthy and very likely to be popular in online play... Most of the cards with unique effects are definitely going to see play.

My observations of online play thus far:

Fin Fang Foom and Mandarin are very popular online. And not only when paired together as well, they're both powerful cards in their own right and are still just as threatening even without the other.
Gradual healing, while extremely annoying offline where the AI blocks everything you throw at it, does not seem to be as popular.
Luke Cage Primary is another example of something that's effective offline but hasn't been popular online. Perhaps it's because people have learned its flaws through offline (just lame it out and win via timeout) or perhaps because Luke Cage is a real gamble (if the opponent has Spencer or Nova or anyone with a hard hitting low-hit-count super he can just combo into Bionic Arm and it's gg)
I notice a lot of people using Chip Damage on All Attacks, though this may just be because it comes on Cyclops...
Fou-Lu is very strong and a solid alternative to Fin Fang Foom.

Spoiler:

- What are instant attacks? Surely it's not referring to instant assists, is it?
- Obtain cards and verify the translation.
- Clarify the effects of some cards (does he taunt have to be completed to grant taunt bonuses or do they apply as soon as you taunt? do snapbacks/alpha counters have to hit or can they whiff?)
- Translate the Lv1/Lv2/Lv3 into something we can better understand (exactly how much meter is gained/lost from these actions, how long does invisibility last, etc. This will probably take the longest as I'd have to actually collect every single damn card or get info from others)
- Crack out on H&H
- Get a sense for the meta of H&H and what builds are popular, aka steal information online and don't credit the innovators hahaha!

Spoiler:

aside from the guy who translated the original card list on capcom-unity there's nobody to credit thus far
but that's likely to change

If anyone has any feedback, corrections, information, things I can do to make this easier to read or more useful to you, etc., lemme know

Some of the cards are activated on taunt. Should that be a separate catagory?

[quote="just5moreminutes;8594904"][b]"By the end of 2014, the Marvel community will be dead. People will still play it in casuals, since the game has that factor to it, but the release of newer, shiner, readily available anime fighters will rip the spotlight off Marvel entirely."[/b][/quote]

Great posts. If ToR doesn't have me by the nuts I'll try to power through campaign, get lots of cards, then figure out stuff.

I too would like to know WTF Lady's card means. If we interpret the description really loosely it could mean better range for command grabs...?

Due to the way it was worded, it almost seems like the hitbox stays active longer. Either choice might affect the animation, making this even more confusing.

[quote="just5moreminutes;8594904"][b]"By the end of 2014, the Marvel community will be dead. People will still play it in casuals, since the game has that factor to it, but the release of newer, shiner, readily available anime fighters will rip the spotlight off Marvel entirely."[/b][/quote]

I'm going to guess based on Lady's game of origin that it means things like Spencer's just frame and Dante's just frame become more lenient on the timing. But Mephisto also has the ability.... (will be interesting to see if their abilities stack)

@just5, yeah, this is still a WIP and I missed taunt activated effects on my double-checks (among other things which are still being added). Gonna add it right after this post.

IIRC it is the same mechanic as in SF4 where once your opponent starts a blockstring on you, the game locks you in as blocking. So you don't have to hold back anymore to be registered as blocking It's basically why you can mash DP in SF4.

My whole life they said I was a cheat code, Cause yo chance of playing on my level <0

IIRC it is the same mechanic as in SF4 where once your opponent starts a blockstring on you, the game locks you in as blocking. So you don't have to hold back anymore to be registered as blocking It's basically why you can mash DP in SF4.

I believe it will just block the correct direction and high/low for you, as long as you aren't pressing anything at the time. I hope it costs meter or something though, cause that shit is dumb.

lol you do realize were playing Hero's and Heralds don't you?

Also the game already keeps you in block stun if your opponent already has you in block string so it must block high low and left and right. With that said I agree with chirp that shit is dumb even for a mode like this.

Keep in mind that a primary-slot Servbot card is going to cause you to take additional chip damage Lv. 2. Chip damage is already set at 25%. I wouldn't be surprised if Lv. 1 was 50% and Lv. 2 was 75%-100%. Also you're giving up your primary card slot where you could be receiving a MUCH bigger boost and the card won't help you if you're pushing buttons anyways.

I'm not gonna sweat it. If you see someone main-slotting a Servbot card just swap your best zoner/chipper in on point.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

I'm going to guess based on Lady's game of origin that it means things like Spencer's just frame and Dante's just frame become more lenient on the timing. But Mephisto also has the ability.... (will be interesting to see if their abilities stack)

That's fucking brilliantly reasoned. I am slightly annoyed that I did not think of that myself.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

Keep in mind that a primary-slot Servbot card is going to cause you to take additional chip damage Lv. 2. Chip damage is already set at 25%. I wouldn't be surprised if Lv. 1 was 50% and Lv. 2 was 75%-100%. Also you're giving up your primary card slot where you could be receiving a MUCH bigger boost and the card won't help you if you're pushing buttons anyways.

I'm not gonna sweat it. If you see someone main-slotting a Servbot card just swap your best zoner/chipper in on point.

Smart.

Also does anyone know how much meter is actually needed for the cards that can only be used at the cost of meter? I hope it's not like 1/2 a bar or anything extreme.

Could be a double-edged sword. If you don't turn Dark before 30 seconds remaining then you're toast since the mere act of hitting you is going to drain your meter.

EDIT: How about Fou-Lu/Miles Edgeworth/Edward Fokker
You get X-Factor 3 times, each time you X-Factor you gain instant HC Gauge Lv. 2 (which I'm assuming just means +2 bars), and while X-Factor is active you're constantly regenerating HC Gauge Lv. 2. It would be impossible to NOT go Dark with this set-up.

"Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set fire to him and he's warm for the rest of his life."

Joe/Arthur/Akuma with Akira/Dazzler/Raptor
Team "This is how you taunt."

[quote="just5moreminutes;8594904"][b]"By the end of 2014, the Marvel community will be dead. People will still play it in casuals, since the game has that factor to it, but the release of newer, shiner, readily available anime fighters will rip the spotlight off Marvel entirely."[/b][/quote]

What happens when you get hit with a 30-hit combo with Howard the Duck as a primary and Fin Fang Foom on secondary? Divide by Zero?

[quote="just5moreminutes;8594904"][b]"By the end of 2014, the Marvel community will be dead. People will still play it in casuals, since the game has that factor to it, but the release of newer, shiner, readily available anime fighters will rip the spotlight off Marvel entirely."[/b][/quote]

I want to say that the logical answer is that FFF would override Howard's ability, but I secretly hope that Howard will still trigger XF which then instantly ends if you have meters due to FFF.

I'm more worried about Luke Cage primaries than I am of Servbot primaries. Partially because my team is competent at chipping, but mainly because Luke Cage is a much more solid Primary overall, and the only requirement for his auto-guard is that you have 2+ meters (I don't know if any of the meter breaking cards will activate on block.)

That's fucking brilliantly reasoned. I am slightly annoyed that I did not think of that myself.

Well I do have the advantage of retyping and reorganizing the entire list of cards, after a while it was obvious that "oh cool, these abilities are pretty faithful to what that character actually does in their original game" lol.

This is funny to me, but using Keijin No Soki (PRI) and Ryu (SEC) makes most level 3's kill any character out right. Specifically Penance Stare. I couple this with Mandarin (SEC) to start with 3 hyper meters. Oh, and I have super armor.

You can do a team of 3 phoenix, but you're not getting 15 meters in one match so forget about it.

You need the resurrection card, so after your final character dies, you get them all over again. I wonder if Dark phoenix died with 5 bars does she come back as regular phoenix essentially having character/character/phoenix/dark phoenix/phoenix/dark phoenix

I just fought a CPU Joe anchor with a Steven Chapman/Luke Cage/Nick Fury (primary) deck.

You. Just. Can't. Kill. Him. I comboed him so many times, but his health always regenerated every single time his health dropped below 5%. His increased vitality and constant super-armor certainly didn't help with my frustration lol.

My Phoenix team is Hunk (Primary)/Multiple Man/Ultron. Seems to be pretty good right now, but you gotta actually know how to play phoenix. She's kinda one of my main characters so it's fun just constantly rushing down with her and then getting DPh when she gets hit. You can parry while being comboed so you don't die and if they ever try and chip with a projectile it's a free bar for each hit you parry.

Also you can use invincible supers (demon works well) while parrying things like doom's plasma beam.

Laughter 7: Well, this is strange. At the GodsGarden that just went down, Momochi picked Dhalsim (beat Daigo 10-8 too!). Is this mofo ever coming back to Gouki?!

I must've gotten really lucky, cause I just breezed through offline campaign, 100% on all the stages. I got a loooot of duplicate cards so I'm guessing to get the really good ones you'll have to play online unfortunately.
Started off with my regular team of Dante/Morrigan/Doom with Mephisto, Daredevil, and Nina. Activate Devil Trigger, go into flight mode, Thunderbolt nonfuckingstop lmao. I'm gonna have to play around more with cancelling specials into specials cause I was doing some stupid shit with Dante, mostly on accident.
I found a semi-infinite with Frank West (as long as you have meter) doing 263B > 236A >263B etc. Got it to work in lvl 3 and above, timing was really difficult in lvl 2.

I also ran a slightly less cheap team of IronMan/Sentinel/Dorm with Kenji, Cyclops and Cyber Blue (I think in that order.) Iron Man with a double jump and a faster dash/airdash makes actually makes him good. He feels like how he should've been in this game in the first place. Chip on normals is pretty lol with both Iron Man and Sentinel.

I managed to clear all the bonus levels largely thanks to two card: Mandarin (Primary) and Silver Surfer (Secondary). Mandarin pretty much lets you turn off X-Factor for the majority of the match (but not before allowing myself to activate it in advantageous situations), and Silver Surfer is amazing, cosidering how frequently I switch characters for red health recovery. I'm experimenting with other third card slots, but those two will very likely be mainstays against the AI.

H&H is busted. Something wrong with the hit stun and causes people to tech in th emiddle of combos that should work. Also the X card gives you a double jump AND air dash in one jump. You could trade the double jump for a second aird dash. DT Vergil has a triple air dash...lol this mode is silly