Series 3 HD stuck in "Powering Up..."

Same thing happened to me last month on one of my S3's. Ordered a new hd from Weaknees, replaced it, and everything was fine. There are only a few things that can go wrong - hd, power supply, mobo or fan - that's really all there is inside the case. More often than not it's the hd or ps - and in my case it was the hd.

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Q: when you installed the new drive, where'd you get the OS and TiVo application software?

You go to WD's site, search the model number of the drive (I think all the 250s were WDs) and on the left hand side of the resulting page will be a link for an image (a .iso file) that you download and burn to cd as an image (so it'll be bootable), and boot the PC with that.

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There's nothing like that on the WD website that I could find. When I did a search on the part number, WD2500BS, I got nothing at all at first. Then I re-did the search in the "Legacy Products" section. The resulting page was here:

This page has Windows and DOS clients available for download. There is no ISO file for burning to a bootable drive.

According to the instructions, the Windows version is an MSI file that "tests your drives" - doesn't say which ones, external or internal. Aside from that, I still have to work out a way to connect this drive to my PC. I don't have an external power supply setup for it so I'll probably have to use the PS in the TiVo. Then I'll have to see if I can dig up (or buy) a SATA/USB adapter.

Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.

There's nothing like that on the WD website that I could find. When I did a search on the part number, WD2500BS, I got nothing at all at first. Then I re-did the search in the "Legacy Products" section. The resulting page was here:

This page has Windows and DOS clients available for download. There is no ISO file for burning to a bootable drive.

According to the instructions, the Windows version is an MSI file that "tests your drives" - doesn't say which ones, external or internal. Aside from that, I still have to work out a way to connect this drive to my PC. I don't have an external power supply setup for it so I'll probably have to use the PS in the TiVo. Then I'll have to see if I can dig up (or buy) a SATA/USB adapter.

Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.

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You want the "Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for DOS" option.

That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.

Just do it. It's easy and it works(the bootable cd. No firsthand experience with a flash drive). All drive manufacturers have these utilities, and most anyone here giving advice has used them numerous times to test their drives.

Plug-n-play Tivo drives. Expect to pay about twice the cost of doing it yourself. Worth it for some. There used to be sources that were a little cheaper. Don't know if they are still around.

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That looks pretty good. Actually $150.00 for a plug-n-play 1TB drive isn't so bad. If I have to go that route to replace a bad drive and get the TiVo OS and software all in one swipe, I'll do it.

Looks like I'll have to cannibalize one of my PCs with internal SATA2 ports to test the stock drive. The drive is connected in the TiVo with a combo power/SATA2 plug, so I can't use the PS there and plug the SATA port into another PC. Right now the PC I need to use is rendering a Blu-Ray and won't be available for a few hours. When it's done I'll open it up, remove the non-OS SATA2 drive, plug in the TiVo drive and PS plug, and run the WD Diagnostics client.

Only trouble is... as I reported to Arcady, there's no bootable ISO image with diagnostics software for this drive on the WD website. That means I'll be running WD's Windows client to diagnose a non-Windows HD. Don't see how that can work, even if I reformat the drive - wrong file system.

That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.

Just do it. It's easy and it works(the bootable cd. No firsthand experience with a flash drive). All drive manufacturers have these utilities, and most anyone here giving advice has used them numerous times to test their drives.

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OK, got it. Thanks for the pointer - wasn't obvious on the WD website where the bootable ISO image was.

That download will enable you to make a bootable cd. Supposedly, you can also use it to make a bootable flash drive, etc.

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Actually, the download doesn't "enable you to make a bootable cd". It includes an EXE file with the instructions to "copy the program to a bootable cd". There's no tool for creating that bootable CD, and there's no built-in tool in Windows 7 to accomplish that (format/make MS-DOS boot Disc only works for floppies - no such option for CDs).

I found a lot of downloadable ISO files to create bootable DOS CDs for Windows 7, but they all finalized the CD after I burned the image - even when I told my burning software not to finalize the CD. Using a CD-RW made no difference. Thus I was never able to copy that executable to a bootable CD.

See steve614's post and my response. The best solution is an ISO that already includes the WD diagnostics. There's nothing like that for this drive on the WD website.

THANK YOU Steve614. This has resolved the quagmire I've been dealing with when it comes to making a bootable CD in Windows 7 and subsequently copying the DOS version of the WD Diagnostics to the CD. There's no easy way to do it. The solution is an integrated ISO file like this one.

Plus, it's loaded with HDD utilities for other drive brands, as well as additional utilities for system maintenance that I haven't explored yet. However I did manage to boot the PC from the CD and run the included WD diagnostics program. I don't have the TiVo drive connected to my PC yet but I do have an internal WD HDD that the diagnostic recognized.

Actually, the download doesn't "enable you to make a bootable cd". It includes an EXE file with the instructions to "copy the program to a bootable cd". There's no tool for creating that bootable CD, and there's no built-in tool in Windows 7 to accomplish that (format/make MS-DOS boot Disc only works for floppies - no such option for CDs).

I found a lot of downloadable ISO files to create bootable DOS CDs for Windows 7, but they all finalized the CD after I burned the image - even when I told my burning software not to finalize the CD. Using a CD-RW made no difference. Thus I was never able to copy that executable to a bootable CD.

See steve614's post and my response. The best solution is an ISO that already includes the WD diagnostics. There's nothing like that for this drive on the WD website.

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So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.

Regardless of all that, I don't see how a Windows or DOS client can diagnose problems on an HDD that uses a different file system. Even formatting would give questionable results, because it will format the drive with the Windows file system, clusters, etc.

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The drive diagnostic tools are testing at the hardware level and not the file system level so it doesn't care what file system is on the drive.

So many details. But yes, appropriate cd burning software would be needed along with the download at WD to make the bootable cd.

Been so long since I've done it.

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Don't I know it. I wasn't being nitty about your posts (sorry if I came across that way), just doing some immature whining about all the crap I ran into when I tried to make this work somehow.

Hey - when you're 60+, a little immaturity now and then is actually a treasured experience.

Back on topic, you might want to check out that link provided by Steve614. That ISO download has a lot of great things besides the WD diagnostics. A number of other hard drive models are supported with utility software, and there are many other options besides HDD maintenance that I haven't even explored yet.

Plus for a DOS program it has a pretty good user interface. I think it's well worth having if you have a Windows OS PC that can boot off a CD drive.

I've had mixed success with the WD Diagnostics, at least as far as I can tell from the test results.

I figured I probably should commit an internet faux pas and cross-post a message in the UltimateBootCD forum just in case someone here has had experience with the WD diagnostics and knows how to interpret the results. Here's the post, followed by a link to the UltimateBootCD forum:
**********************************************
Hello,
I'm using Ultimate Boot 5.2.5 for the first time. I'm trying to run the HDD Data Lifeguard Diagnostic Extended Test For DOS 5.20 (Western Digital) on a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR hard drive, model number WD2500BS 250GB. Currently it's connected to a Dell Dimension 8400 which boots from the UltimateBootCD.

What happens is that the Quick Test portion of the Extended Test will run. After that, instead of running the Full Media Scan, I get a message saying that I have to restart the system. When I do this, it's back to square one. No media scan is done and I have to try to start the extended test all over again.

Here's the exact sequence of messages at the end of the Quick Test:

"Warning! One or more current or worst-case attributes are below threshold"

"Hit ANY Key to continue"

(Key typed)

"The System Must be Reset - Hit CTRL-ALT-DEL or Turn the Power Off"

The wording of the first message suggests that test results lower than the threshold values indicate failure. However, things like Raw Read Error Rate are above the threshold value. Is this a pass or a fail? Seems like a high Raw Read Error Rate would be a failure, rather than a pass because it's not "below threshold."

In fact the only test that results in a "below threshold" value is the Seek Error Test. The rest of the results are all much higher than the listed Thresholds.

Here are the detailed results of the Quick Test (breaks in ID sequence are as reported here):

A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.

At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.

Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.

But if the WD software can't get any further than that, it's time to replace the drive.

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I just wanted to be sure it wasn't a problem with the WD software. It's too bad that the quick test results have that ambiguous "below threshold" message.

I'm still not sure the drive is actually bad, but I've decided after all this time to shop the recommended vendors for a plug and play TiVo drive. Checking out the old drive is being relegated to a background task.

A lot of fuss, eh? It's because I'm trying desperately to recover the recordings on that drive. If it weren't for that, I would have used the Occam's Razor principle at the first sign of trouble and bought a new drive right away.

At least by dragging out the whole issue like this, I got some great links for boot CD utilities and good deals for Plug & Play TiVo hard drives.

Now that I have those links, I'll take your advice and shop for a new drive and put recovery of the old recordings on the back burner. The good news is that I have the external expansion drive for the TiVo, so some of the recordings may be intact on that one. Time will tell.

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My understanding is that Tivo does not save recordings on individual drives. They are striped across both drives.

At this point I would just keep both drives as-is and see what people say about recovering anything. I have recovered single drives using dd_rescue, but I'm not sure what the procedure is for an internal and external, if there is one.

These excerpts from the TiVo forum FAQ suggest that upgrading the internal drive with one of the Weaknees or DVRDude plug & play drives will trash the expander eSATA interface, thus also trashing the content on the expander drive.

As WO312 has suggested, this may be a moot point. If the recordings really are "striped" across the two drives, upgrading the internal HDD would make the content on the expander drive unreadable.

More research.... sigh. I thought those Weaknees and DVDRDude drives might be a good option, but if they disable support for the eSATA expansion port, I may have to re-think my options.

6. Can I add an eSATA drive if I previously upgraded the hard drive in my TiVo?

The new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work if you upgrade the built-in drive on the TiVoHD and Series3.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can also be found in Section IV, #10.

7. Can I add an eSATA drive to upgraded TiVos purchased from Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and other third parties?

As per the previous FAQ, the new "plug and play" eSATA expansion support does not work on any upgraded TiVo. That includes all upgraded TiVos sold by Weaknees and DVRUpgrade. It does not matter who does the upgrade.

You can still add an eSATA drive to an upgraded TiVo, but doing so requires you to open the box and void the warranty. Instructions to do that can be found in Section IV, #10 of this FAQ.

8. I already have a My DVR Expander connected. Can I upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive, without losing the recordings on the external drive?

No. You cannot upgrade the TiVo's built-in drive without losing all recordings on the external drive. You cannot upgrade the built-in drive until you disconnect and remove the My DVR Expander.

You can transfer unprotected recordings to another TiVo with MRV and/or download them to your computer. Once recordings are transferred to another TiVo with MRV, or downloaded to a computer, you can transfer them back to the TiVo after the new drive upgrade.

Once you upgrade the built-in drive, the TiVo's "play and play" drive expansion no longer works.