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Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

I am still seeing regular comments on PD how we need to go after a power forward in the off season. That where we need help.

Here are some Hansbrough stats over the past 10 games:

FG% 58

FT% 79

PPG 21

Reb/game 7.6

Steals/game 1.4

Is there room for improvement? Sure, with just about everyone including you and me BUT we all have seen and know Tyler has improved immensely over the course of this season. Who thought we would be seeing what we now see in him 2 months ago?

What I want to know is what it is going to take to please the critics? He is going to get better and better given time and experience and we see that happening even now so why the dissatisfaction? I am not smart enough to see it (in view of his growth and continual growth).

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Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

You can't pose a question like this using a mere 10 game sample as evidence.

I thought Tyler would be this productive since the Pacers drafted him, but to be fair, he hasn't been involved in the offense to this extent for very long. Let it play out through the postseason before making any definitive judgments about Indiana's offseason priorities. Eventually, defenses are going to adjust to him.

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Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

Considering that this is almost like his rookie season, his improvement throughout the year has been incredible.I still think getting a versatile big that can play both 4/5 in the off season should be a goal. There's nothing wrong with having a starting caliber big man coming off the bench weather it's Tyler, Roy or our new guy. Let's face it Antonio Davis would have started on almost any other team in his prime with the Pacers.The way Tyler is playing and improving it would be hard to justify playing him as a 6th. man though. I'm sold on Tyler being part of our future.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

Considering that this is almost like his rookie season, his improvement throughout the year has been incredible. fficeffice" />>>I still think getting a versatile big that can play both 4/5 in the off season should be a goal. There's nothing wrong with having a starting caliber big man coming off the bench weather it's Tyler, ffice:smarttags" />lace>Roylace> or our new guy. Let's face it Antonio Davis would have started on almost any other team in his prime with the Pacers. >>The way lace>Tylerlace> is playing and improving it would be hard to justify playing him as a 6th. man though. I'm sold on Tyler being part of our future.

I have no idea what the hell the message you just just tried to convey actually means.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

The big knock on Hansbrough a month ago was that he was a black hole on offense and that his FG% was too low. Well his offense has become the most efficient on our roster and his FG% is through the roof.

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Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

Granted we need to see if Hansbrough can continue this trend but I don't think that PF is the biggest weakness of this team. It's probably the 3rd or maybe even 4th weakest position.

The biggest need the Pacers have, IMO, is at SG and PG follows closely behind. They are also weaker at Center (depth-wise) than they are at PF. It's possible that the young talent the Pacers have at the guard positions will improve enough to the point that they are not positions of weakness but as of right now that's the way I see it.

At any rate, the Pacers need to add talent and it doesn't matter if Tyler is your potential starting PF of the future and Roy is the Center of the future. If you can add someone like David West or Tyson Chandler you do it because it will make your team better. Having too much talent is a good problem to have and one that all the top teams have to deal with.

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

The big knock on Hansbrough a month ago was that he was a black hole on offense and that his FG% was too low. Well his offense has become the most efficient on our roster and his FG% is through the roof.

What are the complaints about him now?

Against physical defenders he disappears... this is coming from a supporter though.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

I am still seeing regular comments on PD how we need to go after a power forward in the off season. That where we need help.

What I want to know is what it is going to take to please the critics? He is going to get better and better given time and experience and we see that happening even now so why the dissatisfaction? I am not smart enough to see it (in view of his growth and continual growth).

What would it take to please me? For him to do it for the rest of season and actually play well against good playoff defense like Boston's (edit he just went 4-14 against Boston). David West on the other hand just went 14-23 scoring 32 points against Boston.

I think Tyler has given Bird a reason to reconsider signing a starting pf in the off season but personally I don't think he has done enough to show that his position shouldn't be upgraded. OF course I don't think anybody on the team has earned that right.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

He will need to:

1. Cure cancer
2. Spread peace throughout the Middle East with a glance
3. Invent a free unimited power source for all
4. Discover how to build vehicles with all the power and utility they have now, but use no gas
5. Average 20/20/10/10 for the next 10 years

Honestly, I don't know...

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-tr...nce-stephenson
"But, first, let us now praise famous moments, because something happened Tuesday night in Indianapolis that you can watch a lifetime’s worth of professional basketball and never see again. There was a brief, and very decisive, and altogether unprecedented, outburst of genuine officiating, and it was directed at the best player in the world, and that, my dear young person, simply is not done."

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Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

I've never been the biggest Hansbrough fan, but I've been pretty happy with his development. That said, I don't see why Hans' developing should stop us from looking at other PFs. We do need more help.

Next year, we'll have only 2 bigs under contract (Hibbert and Hans). Ideally, we'd want to get up to 5 rotation quality bigs. I'd say we should go after the best bigs available, and if one these guys prove to be a better starter than Hans (or even Hib) then all the better for our team.

What about Tyler Hansbrough you ask? He actually fared quite well, in a number of different categories in fact. For one, he ranked third amongst all PFs in points per possession in terms of finishing around the basket, at 1.39. His field goal percentage was fairly average here—64%, just slightly under the mean—but the fact that he draws fouls on an outstanding 20% of his possessions (easily ranking him first) made him substantially more efficient in that regard. He also managed to keep his turnovers extremely low, and also did a nice job converting on his jump-shot attempts—making a very solid 42% on an admittedly small 2.7 possessions per game. His ability to operate out of isolation situations looks very encouraging (50% FG), while he was the second most efficient PF in post-up situations as well. From a pure statistical standpoint, Hansbrough obviously looks like a solid prospect based on his college data.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

What would it take to please me? For him to do it for the rest of season and actually play well against good playoff defense like Boston's (edit he just went 4-14 against Boston). David West on the other hand just went 14-23 scoring 32 points against Boston.

He dropped 29 & 12 on 12-19 shooting against arguably the best defending foursome of bigs in the league: Noah, Gibson, Asik and Kurt Thomas. Charlotte also has a solid defensive frontcourt, and Tyler abused them as well (8-10, 24 points).

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

He dropped 29 & 12 on 12-19 shooting against arguably the best defending foursome of bigs in the league: Noah, Gibson, Asik and Kurt Thomas. Charlotte also has a solid defensive frontcourt, and Tyler abused them as well (8-10, 24 points).

He also scored 27 against Kenyon Martin in Denver which is very impressive.

Larry is not coming back, he didn't have a meeting with Orlando for not reason, yeah he is coming back to the NBA but not to the Pacers, the notion that he is a taking a year off and then come back is absurd.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

He dropped 29 & 12 on 12-19 shooting against arguably the best defending foursome of bigs in the league: Noah, Gibson, Asik and Kurt Thomas. Charlotte also has a solid defensive frontcourt, and Tyler abused them as well (8-10, 24 points).

I defiantly wouldn't say that is the best defensive frontcourt in the NBA. Noah is the only guy I think defensively is exceptional and he isn't guarding him most of the time and if Boozer is in the game then I think we see a different stat line.

One game is one game and like Kstat pointed out 10 games isn't enough time to gauge a players future production. Case in point take the 10 games prior to the ones listed in this thread and tyler is shooting just below 40% which is horrible for a pf.

I really hope Tyler just dominates in the playoffs against Boston or the Bulls but I think its too early to post a thread like this and act like he has solidified the pf position for the next 10 years.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

Tyler has been playing extremely well. But I'm not convinced he is the answer to our power forward position.

You cannot just look at his play or his stats in a vacuum and say OK he is the answer. You have to over a longer period of time see how he fits with the other starters how does he fit with Danny and Roy. I think by any objective measure we do not have the answer to that question and there is plenty of evidence that it isn't the best fit.

In general you do not build a team by looking at the stats, in fact that is usually a disaster if you do. For example, you do not build a team by saying OK Tyler is averaging 21 PPG OK we are set there, Roy is averaging 15 a game, Danny 20 OK our front line is set, end of discussion, let move on. No that is just the wrong approach. The players must fit together.

Rik, Dale and Derrick fit together - it took us about 6 years to find two players that would work with Rik. if we are dead set on Roy, it might take a couple more years to find the right mix with him.

So IMO a discussion of stats is mainly a waste of time. Was anyone ever impressed by Dale or Derrick's stats? No

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Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

No matter what Hans does I feel this team still needs an athletic big who can be a weakside shot blocker, help on the boards and play both PF/C. Preferably one that compliments Hibberts game and can start with him if need be.

In a perfect world the Pacers would have three guys (Hibbert, Hans, Player X) man the two big-man positions, all getting starters minutes, so it doesn't matter which of the power forwards start. Adding another power forward is not being against Hans, it's just adding another type of player to the team, to potentially play with him.

Of course West and Randolph are not that type of power forward so I'm not necessarily gung-ho for getting them.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

I defiantly wouldn't say that is the best defensive frontcourt in the NBA. Noah is the only guy I think defensively is exceptional and he isn't guarding him most of the time and if Boozer is in the game then I think we see a different stat line.

One game is one game and like Kstat pointed out 10 games isn't enough time to gauge a players future production. Case in point take the 10 games prior to the ones listed in this thread and tyler is shooting just below 40% which is horrible for a pf.

I really hope Tyler just dominates in the playoffs against Boston or the Bulls but I think its too early to post a thread like this and act like he has solidified the pf position for the next 10 years.

Don't underestimate Kurt Thomas on that side of the floor. He's been valuable to Da Bulls with the injuries to some of their guys.

Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

I personally believe that Tyler will continue to prove himself on the offensive end of the court. If that means that Tyler will end up being the starting PF next to Roy at C then fine.

But that means there is one thing that you must be willing to accept. Your frontcourt defense will be flawed.

Naptown evaluates the biggest area of need for the Pacers as SG. Personally, if Tyler is capable of throwing up points over the long haul the way he has the last 10 games, I see nothing wrong with Naptown's perspective. BUT... if you go that route as far as I'm concerned there is only ONE SG that we should be targetting: Igoudala.

If we have Tyler and Roy set as our starters in the front court, then our perimeter players must ALL be strong defenders. Granger is capable of being a high-level defender but does not seem to have the focus to sustain that level of effort defensively. That MUST change. And, George appears to be a possible upper-tier defender somewhere down the line... possibly as the first wing off the bench in support of Granger and Igoudala? That also means that a player like DJones is not a bad player to keep around. All of these players are also capable scorers.

That would leave just one perimeter position to man. It is much more difficult to find a PG that plays very good defense in addition to having desirable or even adequate offensive characteristics. Price doesn't do a bad job defensively coming off the bench. But the Pacers would need to find a new starter because I don't believe Collison will be capable of providing the defense needed to combine with Granger and Igoudala on the perimeter... again assuming that Roy and Tyler are the front court starters.

It's really a crapshoot on which way to go. If you can't get a player like Igoudala that is considered to be a defensive stopper at SG, then going that direction may not be the way to go. To become a contender that would then almost force you to address better defense in the front court starters (i.e. PF).

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Re: Hansbrough - What Does It Take To Please

offensively, tyler has been great. offensively he just has to produce numbers game after game. 300 to 400 points every 20 games. in other words, show that he can adjust to the adjustments that are coming. and show he can produce points game in and game out thru a whole season.

i see no obvious reason he cannot do that going forward.

but defensively, tyler needs to show that he can defend his position, play good team defense. here is where i think why he is not the answer to the pacers PF spot. tyler is undersized and lacks hops. that makes him unable to defend the rim playing off the ball. it means guys can shoot over him. it means guys can score on him in the post. right now, the pacers are doing a pretty good job of protecting tyler defensively by having roy and jeff take the stronger low post guys on defense. to be the pacer answer at the PF spot, tyler needs to be able to defend his position in spite of his physical limits.