I know "heavy" is in the ear of the beholder and there seems to be a huge variance in what people think is heavy, but given my favorite "heavy" CDs and songs below, what bands/albums fit my definition of "heavy"?

Demolition Hammer - Epidemic of Violence (One of the heaviest thrash albums ever recorded without being death metal) ... I had this. It was stolen about 15 years ago. I forgot how good they were. A similar band was D.A.M. That was stolen too. I may have to replace these.

Malevolent Creation - 10 Commandments (Sounds like Demolition Hammer but more death metal.) ... I have this one. It's not bad.

Obituary - Cause of Death (Heavy as heck groovy death metal) ... Another one I had that was stolen. Always liked them, but I'm looking for something a little more complex and tight.

Baphomet - The Dead Shall Inherit (Similar to Obituary with a heavy groove) ... Nice! I listened to several songs and I think this goes on my Buy list.

Coffins - Pretty much everything (Incredibly heavy and sludgy death metal) ... Rhythm guitar is too distorted and I can't take the Cookie Monster vocals.

Rippikoulu - Musta Seremonia (Probably the heaviest thing to come out of Finnish death metal in the early 90s) ... A little too bassy and Cookie Monster vocals. Could be quite good if it weren't for that.

Devastation - Idolatry (Since you like Exhorder you will surely like this) ... I have this and you're right.

Solstice - S/T (Thrash not far off Demolition Hammer) ... Yes! Yes! Yes! That's what I'm talking about. A definite buy. Lots of rhythm changes to keep it interesting. The only thing that could improve it is a chunkier guitar tone.

Sadus (First 3 albums in particular. They slowed down and got more technical with each album)I had this album back in the day and for some reason I never really cared for it. I think it had something to do, not so much with the music, but the recording.

Destruction - Thrash 'Til Death (This song breaks necks. More of a chainsaw tone than incredibly heavy though) ... been listening to Destruction for a loooong time. I have almost everything they've put out. I prefer Eternal Devastation and Infernal Overkill even though the production has a thin sound. Their later stuff is good too, just not as unique as the early stuff.

Dismember - Pieces EP (Good example of the sunlight studios production job with their very heavy chainsaw guitar tone) ... I'm not all that fond of the guitar tone on the link you gave me, but I did listen to some of the Hate Campaign videos and really liked them. This is probably a buy.

Asphyx - Deathhammer (Well the last 2 albums are incredibly heavy with the production job) ... I had an Asphyx album years ago and didn't like it for some reason. But this newer stuff is much better. DeathHammer is good, but I particularly liked almost every YouTube from Last One on Earth. That one is a buy.

Hail of Bullets (Like a mix of Asphyx and Bolt Thrower. Same vocalist as Asphyx) ... Another good one. Could use some breakdowns, but then I guess it would change genres ... not that I care all that much about what category something fits in, other than for descriptive purposes.

Slugathor (Very heavy Finnish death metal, with a grinding guitar tone that reminds me of Bolt Thrower). ... Nice and heavy. Almost good enough to get past the Cookie Monster vocals ... almost. I prefer a less muddy guitar tone.

Again, another great collection of links. Thanks again ... especially for the Solstice.

Meshuggah is one of those bands I could never get into. They have a great sound, but they always sound like they're trying to create something "different" and experimental. It becomes a little too repetitive and offbeat, and I can't get into a groove on their rhythms.

I like experimental stuff on things like Pink Floyd, but not so much in metal. I want different, yes, but not "weird".

OK, I found the kind of heavy chugging thrash I'm looking for (check out Korzus below). What a nice little gem. Still looking for something that can surpass Cataract on the metalcore side. On the death side, I doubt if I'll ever find any songs heavier than Cannibal Corpse's Evisceration Plague.

OK, I found the kind of heavy chugging thrash I'm looking for (check out Korzus below). What a nice little gem. Still looking for something that can surpass Cataract on the metalcore side. On the death side, I doubt if I'll ever find any songs heavier than Cannibal Corpse's Evisceration Plague.

Since I started this thread I've probably listened to 100+ bands. It's been some fun research. I've learned a lot about genres that I didn't know before. I learned I still don't like most modern death metal, although I'm tempted by a few because they play a lot of mid-tempo stuff. And even though Cataract is probably my overall favorite metal band, most metalcore bands just don't stand out that much to me.

Except for Korzus, I haven't found anything that reaches the level of what I'm hoping to reach, but I've found some really great stuff nonetheless. Most of it is thrash.

I think I finally understand one of the things you're looking for, a subsubgenre that I call "brutal thrash." You've already got most of the best, including Demolition Hammer, Devastation, Invocator, and Solstice. Here are a couple more.

I think I finally understand one of the things you're looking for, a subsubgenre that I call "brutal thrash."

By your choices you're definitely honing in on me.

I guess brutal thrash is as good a name as any for one of the genres I like.

The difference between most death metal and the death metal I seem to like is that on most death metal the drums don't fall into a steady beat for more than a few seconds at a time before they're off doing something else. And I really dislike overuse of blast beats. Also the rhythm guitar will pick a couple of notes, do a flurry of tremolo picking for about 3 seconds and then be off onto something else. I can never settle into a groove with it. I don't want monotony, but I don't want chaos either.

ProtectorOh, this is good. Definitely falls within the category we're talking about. A definite buy.

LacerationI like it. More of a straight thrash.

HypnosiaKind of a cross between speed/thrash/death. Very good. Most who try to play this fast don't have the tightness to pull it off, but these guys do. The tightness makes it heavy. I have to listen more, but may be a possible buy

You should know by now I'm totally confused about what to call the stuff I like . I think it's a cross between thrash/speed/doom/death/core/groove ... and maybe a few other, as yet to be defined genres.

Machine Head = Burn my Eyes (Groove metal) Have it. This and The Blackening are the best.

Testament - The Gathering (The heaviest thing they have done) Have it.

Avenger of Blood - Everything (Along the lines of Hypnosia. Kreator clones) Reminds me of early Destruction. I like early Destruction a lot, except for the thin production. This goes on my Wish List for more listening.

Destruction - The Antichrist (They went hard here) Have it.

Attomica (Sepultura influenced thrash) Listened to a few Attomica cuts a couple of weeks ago from the Limits Of Insanity album and thought the production was horrible, but Disturbing The Noise seems to be much better. Good thrash and another that goes on my Wish List for more listening.

Deathraiser - Violent Aggression (Along the lines of Hypnosia and Avenger of Blood) Good thrash, but there's something about the drums I don't like. I don't know if it's the production or his playing.

Headhunter - D.C. (Thrashy death metal with a nice groove) My first reaction was "Oh my!". That song is truly heavy groove. But after listening to some other songs on that album they just don't seem to maintain that level, and they venture too often into the type of death metal I don't care for. I usually don't buy single songs, but I'm really tempted by this one.

Sarcasmo - Metal Morte (On the same label as Headhunter D.C. and also thrashy death metal) Not a good production to my ears.

Bolt Thrower - Most albums (You probably already know them but they are the king of groovy death metal. May be a bit too much on the atmosphere for you though) I have Warmaster and I'm kind of ambivalent toward it. The problem I have with Bolt Thrower is the feeling of "Haven't I just heard this song?"

You should know by now I'm totally confused about what to call the stuff I like . I think it's a cross between thrash/speed/doom/death/core/groove ... and maybe a few other, as yet to be defined genres.

Haha! Just playin' with you, brother.

Interestingly, I just listened to Jungle Rot's Kill On Command last night, myself.

I wonder what you think of some death metal bands that have some groove to them, such as Asphyx, Hail Of Bullets, Dismember, or Entombed? Sounds like groove (in a good way) and/or mid-tempo stuff is your cup 'o tea. If you want to try some really brutal stuff that does a good amount of mid-tempo stuff yet pushes the bounds of heavy/brutal, check out Deadly Remains - Severing Humanity and Pathology - The Time Of Great Purification and others from them. Deadly Remains' first album is considered 'death thrash', which might suit you. It's entitled Before The Nothing (2010). Asphyx - Deathhammer is some heavy, head-bangin' shit for sure but of course by no means thrash anything. Worth a try if you have yet to hear it.

I wonder what you think of some death metal bands that have some groove to them, such as Asphyx, Hail Of Bullets, Dismember, or Entombed? Sounds like groove (in a good way) and/or mid-tempo stuff is your cup 'o tea. If you want to try some really brutal stuff that does a good amount of mid-tempo stuff yet pushes the bounds of heavy/brutal, check out Deadly Remains - Severing Humanity and Pathology - The Time Of Great Purification and others from them. Deadly Remains' first album is considered 'death thrash', which might suit you. It's entitled Before The Nothing (2010). Asphyx - Deathhammer is some heavy, head-bangin' shit for sure but of course by no means thrash anything. Worth a try if you have yet to hear it.

I just received Asphyx - Last One On Earth in the mail. This seems to be the only early one I care for. Deathhammer is OK. I haven't decided on buying that one yet.

I just listened to some Deadly Remains songs. 'Home Invasion' is particularly heavy, but the guy sounds like he's puking into the microphone. I had that Pathology album on my 'Might Buy' list, but I just don't think I can get past the belching pig squeal vocals.

I have a couple of Entombed albums. They're OK.

I didn't realize this thread would cost me so much money . There's a lot of good stuff out there I didn't know about. As good as it is, I was getting tired of listening to my old stuff over and over again. It's been fun listening to all this new stuff.

these four albums have guitar tones that are like massive monoliths...the very definition of fast and slow chugging...

Yes, those have great guitar tone. Drop-D and heavy on the chunk. We used to call it "crunch".

And Justice for All ........................... have it. My favorite Metallica album.Soul of a New Machine ........................... don't have it, but I'm familiar with Fear Factory's stuffFar Beyond Driven ........................... have itAnnihilation of the Wicked ........................... I don't know if I've heard this particular Nile. The stuff I've heard tends to be too chaotic for me. I'll check it out.Chaos AD ........................... have it

Some updates: I found another nice (what GravityLapse labeled "brutal thrash") album - Mortal Infinity's District Destruction, and some good mid-tempo death metal - Bloodbath's Nightmare's Made Flesh.

I really like Protector's A Shedding of Skin album GravityLapse recommended, but I can't find it anywhere in the U.S. Same goes for Invocator's Weaving The Apocalypse.

I did find a Pantera-sounding band called 4Arm that I like, but their albums are too inconsistent to buy the whole thing. They have a great guitar tone and some really good songs.

check out the last four krisiun albums...lotsa chugga chugga sections with monster guitar tone and the totally over-compressed sound

Just listened to most of the cuts off The Great Execution. It's really good ... a definite buy. Hope the others are that good. Thanks

I had already put an order in today, so this will go with the next batch. I prefer CD's when I can get them at a decent price. I ordered ...

Skeletal Spectre - Tomb CovenBorn From Pain - In Love With The EndCabal - MidianDawn of Demise - Rejoice In VengeanceDawn of Demise - Hate Takes Its FormSabbat - Dreamweaver (had this years ago. I think it was stolen with a bunch of others)