[Shadow] Best in Slot List (With LMG) - 5.3 / T15

Below is the latest listing of the best raid gear available for patch 5.3.0.

Items in the following lists are ranked according to the normalized values of their stats. Stats are represented via PP (Pseudo Points) -- how valuable a given stat is -- normalized to where Intellect = 1PP.

The values of hit and spirit have been adjusted to be no better than the 3rd best secondary stat out of Haste, Mastery, and Crit. This is because Hit is cap-able and offers no DPS advantage afterwards, meaning you can reforge any excess Hit/Spirit in to the 1st or 2nd best secondary stat by PP. Also please note, as a rule, spirit is always superior to hit due to offspec possibilities and bonuses from the Human racial.

Item FormattingBlue denotes DPS items.Dark Green denotes Healing-specific items.Dark Red denotes PVP items.Golden denotes crafted/tradeskill items.(T##) as a prefix denotes the item's Raid Tier(E) as a prefix denotes the item is the Elite version(H) as a prefix denotes the item is the Heroic version(HE) as a prefix denotes the item is the Heroic Elite version(T) as a prefix denotes the item is the Thunderforged version(HT) as a prefix denotes the item is the Heroic Thunderforged version(RF) as a prefix denotes the item is the Raid Finder version(V) as a prefix denotes the item is sold from a vendor(S##) as a prefix denotes the item's PvP Season(###) as a suffix denotes the item's iLevel

The bottom section shows that the 2P set bonus is worth 567.99 PP and the 4P set bonus is worth 797.54 PP. The total for no set bonuses (such as if this is the only piece of T14 you have, or if you have 3 pieces of T14 and you're 'using' the other 2 pieces of T14 you have to get the 2p bonus, or if you have 5 pieces of T14 and you're using the other 4 pieces to get the 2p and 4p bonuses) is 2538.51 5PP (main line); using this piece to get the 2p bonus it is worth 3106.50 PP (fourth line), and using this piece to get both the 2p and 4p bonuses is worth 3904.04 PP (seventh line). The other lines show how valuable the piece is if you have 1/2 or 2/2 Valor Upgrades on the item.

Thanks again for the work twin.
Quick question, why are you using 160int gems in the weapon meta sockets? I know it won't make any difference to their rankings, just mentioning for the sake of consistency :P

also, haste is now >0.5int and worth gemming for in these sims. I understand these are WITH the LMG, were these also with the t15 4set. How would you expect the set bonuses to change weights, if at all?

Thanks again for the work twin.
Quick question, why are you using 160int gems in the weapon meta sockets? I know it won't make any difference to their rankings, just mentioning for the sake of consistency :P

also, haste is now >0.5int and worth gemming for in these sims. I understand these are WITH the LMG, were these also with the t15 4set. How would you expect the set bonuses to change weights, if at all?

Ah, good catch there in the weapons. I'll get that corrected and posted...maybe tonight, but it might have to wait.

The profile for this is with 4P and only Heroic Thunderforged items from Ra-den. Without the set bonuses you'll likely see the values of Crit and Mastery drop but Haste stay about where it is now. I base this off the results from when SimC was bugged and only let a max of 3 SAs out at a time, thereby reducing the effectiveness of Crit/Mastery.

A lot of the Heroic Thunderforged items aren't up on WoWDB or WoWHead because they haven't been datamined or seen as drops yet, even though they exist. Once there have been a few clears of content on heroic I'll go through and add the missing links.

Updated with...a ton of updates. Item links are in place for all but a few items (though they might still 404, they're listed on the Battle.net website), corrected drop locations, reevaluated trinkets with the RPPM updates, etc.

This also uses new PP values that take in to account everything up to the FDCL ICD being removed sometime this weekend (though the effect is so minimal that the results will not change).

ALSO, on my to-do list: finally change the color scheme for the much lighter MMO-Champion forums. I know some of the text can be difficult to read.

I notice these latest updates are putting the LeiShen trinket higher than before. Did you alter the action list when simming this?

The numbers for the LeiShen trinket are based on some extrapolated data from World of Logs (scaled and adjusted for various versions of the trinket, since no LFR, Heroic, or Heroic Thunderforged versions exist yet).

Originally Posted by Halda

Thx for your hard work, i'm curious where do you get the stats of the Heroic Thunderforged items ?

btw seems like your HT main hand use incorrect intellect values (Torall should be the one with the most Int).

It looks like my database has the values of Int and Stamina swapped for some of those HT Mainhand weapons. I'll correct it tonight.

I got H TF Jerthud and it uses the Eye of the Black Prince, so shouldn't it be 2nd bis for a human? I'm not saying its place on the list is wrong, but currently it doesn't show the overall PP value including the extra socket. The same is probably true of nadagast's.

Otherwise, I refer to this list all the time and wonder why there seems to be nothing quite as comprehensive for rogue or mage, like when my alts get lower level trinkets, I can't compare relative values nearly as easily.

I got H TF Jerthud and it uses the Eye of the Black Prince, so shouldn't it be 2nd bis for a human? I'm not saying its place on the list is wrong, but currently it doesn't show the overall PP value including the extra socket. The same is probably true of nadagast's.

Otherwise, I refer to this list all the time and wonder why there seems to be nothing quite as comprehensive for rogue or mage, like when my alts get lower level trinkets, I can't compare relative values nearly as easily.

There's definitely a few bugs/mistakes with the gemming and the EotBP not being included on all items that I did not catch initially. I'll post an update soon-ish (probably around when 5.3 is released, including item upgrades). I'm in the process of moving a few states away (packing, house job hunting, etc.) otherwise I'd try to get an update sooner.

For rogues, I've been using Shadow Panther for a long time for my rogue alt. Not sure about mages though?

If you have the stat weights, can't you simply auto-generate a list like that with wowhead? Only thing you'll have to figure out then is 2pc/4pc value and trinket rankings.

You absolutely could, but being able to weigh the values of items with and without upgrades, optimal reforges and gemming put in place, bonuses for different races on weapons, tier bonus values being included, and trinkets being simmed and valued to averages based on uptimes......

Do you happen to know if the relative value of crit > mastery applies at lower gear levels (522 ish)? All my 10k iteration sims put them within the margin of error of each other (which I guess means it doesn't really matter anyway).

Crit and Mastery stay neck and neck at lower levels, yes. You'll want to favor Crit over Mastery until you get UVLS (any version), at which point you'll be switching to Master > Crit. The profile used for this list did not use UVLS in it and the stat weights show that difference. The changeover isn't going to be large enough to affect what items you should be shooting for, though, so it doesn't warrant its own list.