Hello, I'm in the market for a used ES 350, most likely a 2016 or 2017 model year. After doing extensive research, I cannot determine if the ES 350 is different enough than the Avalon or Camry to be worth the extra cost. One review I watched, the guy said it drives like a Camry. If you cross reference enough parts for the ES 350 on rock auto you'll see that most of the parts are shared with the Camry and Avalon. So is the ES350 just an Avalon or Camry with a Lexus badge?

Hello, I'm in the market for a used ES 350, most likely a 2016 or 2017 model year. After doing extensive research, I cannot determine if the ES 350 is different enough than the Avalon or Camry to be worth the extra cost. One review I watched, the guy said it drives like a Camry. If you cross reference enough parts for the ES 350 on rock auto you'll see that most of the parts are shared with anyone Camry and Avalon. So am is the ES350 just an Avalon or Camry with a Lexus badge?

In what areas does the ES350 beat the Camry and Avalon?

Reviewers are bunch of I****., who blabbers lots of uninformed facts. I own both 2011 Camry and 2014 es300h, the Lexus is Build on a higher standards, It has better quality materials, is noticeably quieter on highway, much better paint quality etc. Also the Lexus does not float like the Camry, it also handles better than the Camry in my opinion. Take a long testdrive one Yourself and see.. watch how the transmission performs on both..

The Camry and Avalon are both very good cars you will not go wrong with either. The reason to buy a Lexus ES is the same reason you would buy a Mercedes E class or a BMW 4 or 5 series instead of one of the two Toyota's you mentioned fit,finish more luxurious and quiet.

I drove a Camry for 15 years (the last one 13 of those years); finally decided to treat myself. I test drove both an Avalon and an ES350 of similar years (2013 & 2014). Perhaps the Avalon had been treated a bit more harshly whereas the Lexus was virtually in showroom condition even though both had similar mileage. In the end I bought the Lexus although the Avalon had more options (blind spot, park assist, front spacing control). The Lexus just felt better (quieter?), and I liked the location (higher) of the gps monitor...do not have to move my eyes as far from the road to see it. Here in Alberta the prices for the same year used are pretty much the same unless you are considering less than 3 or 4 years old. Autotrader can be your friend.

If it’s important to you, I took a 200 km cruise last Friday and it gave me 7.1 l/100 km...the same as my 4 cyl. Camry could produce. I don’t think you’d be disappointed with either however.

For many years, I've had my Lexus vehicles serviced at a Toyota dealership. Thus, I've driven multiple Camry and Avalon loaner cars, Whenever I've been given one of the Toyota loaners, I've immediately noticed 3 main differences between the Toyotas and my ES.
1. The fits and finishes of the ES are a notch above those in the Camrys or Avalons. Lexus simply uses tighter acceptable production
tolerances.
2. The quality of interior materials is noticeably better in the ES.
3. With the ES, the cabin is better isolated from engine, wind, and road noise.

The Avalon and Camry are both very well-built cars, but the ES is at a level above.

I have owned an Avalon and an ES... while there are similarities between the two, they are not the same...I loved my Avalon but I love the ES more. One of the first things I noticed when test driving the ES was the steering.. not sure how to describe it but it just felt smoother, more fluid.. also the cabin noise was less in the ES.. Nothing wrong with Avalons... mine was great but it just so happened when I was shopping for a new car, I was able to negotiate a price similar or below what I would have had to pay for the Avalon, plus there's an extra year warranty on the ES.

I would go with Avalon. Stupid Lexus does not have a sunglasses holder, nor is the center console designed so that you can place anything down on it, like a phone or sunglasses or whatever. Plus, Lexus service costs more. If I could do over again, I would have got an Avalon.

For many years, I've had my Lexus vehicles serviced at a Toyota dealership. Thus, I've driven multiple Camry and Avalon loaner cars, Whenever I've been given one of the Toyota loaners, I've immediately noticed 3 main differences between the Toyotas and my ES.
1. The fits and finishes of the ES are a notch above those in the Camrys or Avalons. Lexus simply uses tighter acceptable production
tolerances.
2. The quality of interior materials is noticeably better in the ES.
3. With the ES, the cabin is better isolated from engine, wind, and road noise.

The Avalon and Camry are both very well-built cars, but the ES is at a level above.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poppa

I have owned an Avalon and an ES... while there are similarities between the two, they are not the same...I loved my Avalon but I love the ES more. One of the first things I noticed when test driving the ES was the steering.. not sure how to describe it but it just felt smoother, more fluid.. also the cabin noise was less in the ES.. Nothing wrong with Avalons... mine was great but it just so happened when I was shopping for a new car, I was able to negotiate a price similar or below what I would have had to pay for the Avalon, plus there's an extra year warranty on the ES.

I totally agree with Lesz and Poppa; ES is a level higher, more comfort and quietness in the cabin. Both Camry and Avalon are great but I will go with ES.
OP: As others have said, test drive them and make your choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by camfused

.....Stupid Lexus does not have a sunglasses holder, nor is the center console designed so that you can place anything down on it, like a phone or sunglasses or whatever. Plus, Lexus service costs more.......

Respectfully IMHO, if Toyota/Lexus or any auto maker decide to manufacture cars based on everybody's preference and preferences, possibly everybody would soon be trekking!!! As I understand that individual has preferences but we can't have them all. No car is ever perfect; I would have preferred to have "an out of this world" television screen at the front instead of the passenger seat (on a lighter mood anyways).
If you get a good Toyota service station, I think it's more cheaper than Lexus service station (I stand to be corrected).

Does It "drive like a Camry" or "drive like an Avalon". Yes. However, it drives a little bit nicer. Theres no denying what the car is, it IS an Avalon which essentially IS a Camry with a longer wheelbase. The cars all drive very similarly, and they're all very nice driving cars. The ES is a little smoother and quieter.

It comes down to quality, the ES feels like a more upscale car inside and looks more upscale outside. The ES has a better warranty. Lexus has a great CPO program. "Lexus service costs more than Toyota" of course it does, but its also better. Lexus dealerships are much nicer, always available loaners, more enjoyable experience...costs more. If you choose the ES you dont have to take it to Lexus, its an Avalon you can take it to Toyota. You can take it to an independent mechanic. You can service it anywhere, thats one of the great things about the ES and Lexus in general.

Does It "drive like a Camry" or "drive like an Avalon". Yes. However, it drives a little bit nicer. Theres no denying what the car is, it IS an Avalon which essentially IS a Camry with a longer wheelbase. The cars all drive very similarly, and they're all very nice driving cars. The ES is a little smoother and quieter.

It comes down to quality, the ES feels like a more upscale car inside and looks more upscale outside. The ES has a better warranty. Lexus has a great CPO program. "Lexus service costs more than Toyota" of course it does, but its also better. Lexus dealerships are much nicer, always available loaners, more enjoyable experience...costs more. If you choose the ES you dont have to take it to Lexus, its an Avalon you can take it to Toyota. You can take it to an independent mechanic. You can service it anywhere, thats one of the great things about the ES and Lexus in general.

i have to somewhat disagree with lexus service.
somewhat because i noticed LExus dealers in rural areas away from downtown cities do have very good service along with polite staff, at least this was my experience at a dealership in upstate NY.
But i live in the heart of NYC, and every Lexus dealer around me is a complete effing manure of service.
They are always busy, the staff is so-so and they never ever ever have loaners unless you do some crazy service to your car.
This applies to:

Lexus of queens
Lexus of brooklyn
Lexus of Manhattan

all 3 are from same ownership. Absolutely atrocious service departments. All 3 dealers within 5 miles from me. I usually have to drive 15-20 miles for better service.

i have to somewhat disagree with lexus service.
somewhat because i noticed LExus dealers in rural areas away from downtown cities do have very good service along with polite staff, at least this was my experience at a dealership in upstate NY.
But i live in the heart of NYC, and every Lexus dealer around me is a complete effing manure of service.
They are always busy, the staff is so-so and they never ever ever have loaners unless you do some crazy service to your car.
This applies to:

Lexus of queens
Lexus of brooklyn
Lexus of Manhattan

all 3 are from same ownership. Absolutely atrocious service departments. All 3 dealers within 5 miles from me. I usually have to drive 15-20 miles for better service.

It depends on the management of the dealer of course, if all 3 of those are owned by the same company then there's the issue, nit "being around a city center". Around Washington, DC all the dealers here are similar and have very good service, free available loaners, etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pab12

Temporary thread swipe...
SW17LS, I've always enjoyed your posts wrt the ES350 so thanks
But I want to ask a question about the LS. What's your opinion regarding replacing the V8 engine with the twin-turbo V6?)

Thanks!

Not a fan of the swap to the TTV6. I actually bought my 17 LS460L right as the LS500s were coming out for that reason. I like the looks of the LS500, but I don't care for the V6 powertrain, the interior is much tighter than mine and the ride is much firmer and not as comfortable.