Does Jeremy Abbott need a coaching change?

I don't understand why his routines were so boring and almost uninspired this year. They felt beneath him, but I felt that Abbott sort of phoned in this season (I mean seriously that gimmicky, not-even-wacky-though-it-was-trying-to-be Spy routine and the incredibly lame and boring "Bring Him Home"?). Here's hoping to a better season for Sochi, but he needs to at least project some sort of commanding presence again.

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I had a completely different impression. I thought 'Bring him home' was a beautiful program and it suited his style so well.

When things don't go well, we always think that it's coaching problem ...
I don't know how Yuka works
I only know that Jeremy has many injuries... body is not getting younger ...
and he is never been a jumping machine...
that spin thing is really silly !!! I still can't understand how could happen...

Well the whole thing about neither Jason or Yuka knowing that his SP spins were illegal was pretty scary. I mean, navigating these requirements and doing the math and making sure points are maximized are a big part of being a coach these days, and the fact that an onlooker pointed it out to them the day of the SP still completely blows me away.

There are only so many times someone can change coaches. There are some things a coach can fix, but then there are other things that only the skater themselves can fix. And I think Jeremy's problems are in the second category.

I saw him at Skate America this year, and despite the jump problems he had there and at Nationals, I think the Les Mis program is a masterpiece. And I despise the music from Les Mis, so that is saying something. I don't necessarily agree with the comments about the music being too monotone, the program not being dramatic enough, etc. He can skate it so beautifully and with such emotional investment and depth that his performance transcends whatever flaws the music has as a piece of competition music.

Sadly, when he gets rattled about the jumps, I think he loses the focus on the rest of the program's qualities. And that's something he has to work out for himself. A good coach would help him do that, and I think Yuka and Jason have definitely been supportive in that regard, but ultimately he's the one who has to figure out how to deal with that.

I agree that a pro circuit would be an excellent opportunity for him (and others with the same sort of issues, e.g. Adam Rippon). If only.....

Hypothetically, if Jeremy can still go to the worlds with a triple, and his quad is so inconsistent, why not leave out the quad? Just do an immaculate triples program. He is more than capable of that. It may help his confidence just to skate cleanly. I'm afraid all the talk about "needing" a quad has gotten to him, and he is doing a jump he's not as capable of.

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Because if he happens to rotate the quad, he can still get 7.3 (or count in the deduction and that's 6.3) points for it which is more than any other triple jump. Plus he will need the quad in the FS at Worlds, so USFS would likely have been hesitant to put him on the Worlds team without even attempting a quad at the Nationals. Like I said, if he had fallen on the UR 4t and was otherwise clean, he would have made the team, but he just made other mistakes on top of it and that's the issue. Further, Jeremy has issues skating a clean FS regardless of what his jump content is, so he really needs to go for the quad just because he might make mistakes on other jumps. It's not like when Jeremy doesn't do the quad he's a sure thing for skating a clean FS, and that's the only situation where it would maybe make sense. But with the current state of the men internationally, I don't think anyone will be in the mix for top 6 at Worlds without trying at least one quad between their 2 programs, especially now that it isn't unusual to see 2, 3, even 4.

I don't think Jeremy is a headcase in the classic sense. I think there are two separate issues which have really come to the forefront of late... the first is simply age/time. He has become injury-prone of late, and that limits his training, and therefore his consistency in competition.

Second, in my view Jeremy is an artist who uses skating as his medium, and it seems that he gets so involved in the performance and telling the story that he buries himself so deeply in the choreography that he can't focus on his technical cues, etc. And due to the limited training, his muscle memory isn't what it needs to be, so those technical cues may be even more important to his results than in previous years...

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I think this is a very astute theory. I thought Jeremy was very poised at US Nationals; of course he was nervous but did not seem lost in his fear. To me, it seemed to be the lack of training time that hurt his performance, not nerves.

I hope he does continue to skate competitively; the emphasis seems to be on quads now, but he is still a gorgeous skater with a lot to contribute to the sport.

Please don't quit, Jeremy, unless your body is saying it is time to do so.

He certainly has a bright future ahead of him as a choreographer, if that's what he wants to do after competitive skating.

Hypothetically, if Jeremy can still go to the worlds with a triple, and his quad is so inconsistent, why not leave out the quad? Just do an immaculate triples program. He is more than capable of that. It may help his confidence just to skate cleanly. I'm afraid all the talk about "needing" a quad has gotten to him, and he is doing a jump he's not as capable of.

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I did not read this post before I posted #29 and I am just now seeing this. Great minds do think alike.

Todd Eldredge ruined his chances of being in medal contention at the 2002 Olympics by insisting on going for a quad even though he had not mastered it. In retrospect it would not have made a difference in the medal podium, but at least he would have had the satisfaction of skating well.

ETA: The reason I even thought of the coaching change was that his current coaches used incorrect strategy. If Jeremy wanted to try the quad anyway, the coaches needed to talk him out of it because making the world team had to be his priority at this time.

I haven't followed Jeremy closely enough this year to know if he changed his spin to make it be illegal or if it was illegal all season. I was always under the impression that the skaters had judges who monitored them. And didn't Jeremy do Champs Camp and several GPs? I really would just like to know why no one noticed his pointless spins (wasn't it in both short and long?) until Nationals. Really, in the middle of the biggest competition of the year. Think how that must have disconcerted him. If it were me, I would think about whether or not I was with the right coaches.

Also, I have to say that Adam Rippon is tremendously improved and much happier with a new coach...

I haven't followed Jeremy closely enough this year to know if he changed his spin to make it be illegal or if it was illegal all season. I was always under the impression that the skaters had judges who monitored them. And didn't Jeremy do Champs Camp and several GPs? I really would just like to know why no one noticed his pointless spins (wasn't it in both short and long?) until Nationals. Really, in the middle of the biggest competition of the year. Think how that must have disconcerted him. If it were me, I would think about whether or not I was with the right coaches.

Also, I have to say that Adam Rippon is tremendously improved and much happier with a new coach...

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My thoughts too. I'm not sure why people wouldn't recommend looking into a change. Again, the Satos seem to be where everyone in both USA and Japan has gone to suck competitively. Alissa is their success story, and she benefited from the positive change from her previous situation. If Abbott can find a suitable system for training elsewhere, he should try it. I think with his talent-level it's worth it.

Hypothetically, if Jeremy can still go to the worlds with a triple, and his quad is so inconsistent, why not leave out the quad? Just do an immaculate triples program. He is more than capable of that. It may help his confidence just to skate cleanly. I'm afraid all the talk about "needing" a quad has gotten to him, and he is doing a jump he's not as capable of.

ETA: The reason I even thought of the coaching change was that his current coaches used incorrect strategy. If Jeremy wanted to try the quad anyway, the coaches needed to talk him out of it because making the world team had to be his priority at this time.

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There may have been some Sunk Cost Fallacy going on here. Jeremy was chasing the quad in vain all season; perhaps he felt like he needed to stay the course and eventually it would all pay off. Unfortunately for him, it never did this season.

I think Jeremy needs to retire and join a show (I'm sure he'll get many offers).

He's a stunning, unique skater but if it didn't happen already, it's not going to happen now. Especially at his age. He's had plenty of opportunities.

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I don't see what harm going on does. Using your logic, he should have retired years ago, like after 2010 (that might not have been a bad idea then actually). He was never going to get a new personality. Let him try with some new variables like a new coach. He enhances his career and the Olympic year scene just by showing up (it's the only year the public watches), even if due to age he may not have the best odds he's ever had.

What was so illegal about the spin anyway? Now I want to see it.... perhaps a double Biellman butt spin ending a la Candeloro with knees on the ice?

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It wasn't anything super- a flying upright spin. The ISU just decided this year that those don't fulfill the requirements, so it would have gotten no points (illegal might have been the wrong word- I think illegal elements incur deductions.) If you go back in the Men's thread you can see his programs at the Detroit Send off show, and he does the spin there.

Jeremy was 2 points away from going to Worlds so it's not like his skating was at an embarrassingly low level, and next year is an Olympic year. It's so easy to sit at a keyboard and say he should retire, but this is his life and if there is even a chance he could make another Olympic team, he doesn't have anything to lose by going for it. Yeah, there are a lot of younger skaters on an upswing and next year at US Nats will probably be even tougher, but you never get anything if you don't try and give it your best. At least he won't look back and have regrets wondering "what if?"

Not that I know for sure that he plans to stay in; but unless the injuries get to be too much, I don't think it would make sense to retire now.

Jeremy was 2 points away from going to Worlds so it's not like his skating was at an embarrassingly low level

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But it's the second time in 3 years this has happened even though he is the best, most accomplished skater US currently has and has had for a while. He just doesn't have "it" in him. And that's nothing to be ashamed of. For years he has been able to deliver about one strong free skate per season and that's good, just not enough for a elite competitor.

In my mind, he is heaps and bounds the better skater, but I wouldn't hesitate for a split second to send Miner to Worlds instead (both times, actually).

But it's the second time in 3 years this has happened even though he is the best, most accomplished skater US currently has and has had for a while. He just doesn't have "it" in him. And that's nothing to be ashamed of. For years he has been able to deliver about one strong free skate per season and that's good, just not enough for a elite competitor.

In my mind, he is heaps and bounds the better skater, but I wouldn't hesitate for a split second to send Miner to Worlds instead (both times, actually).

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So if you don't get the results you want, you should quit trying? Most other countries would be thrilled to be able to send a skater like Abbott to Worlds; the US happens to have a lot of depth in mens skating at the moment. I could see that if he had placed 10th or something, he might want to think about quitting- but 2 points away from the World team? Not so much. Maybe he doesn't have "it" in him, but why shouldn't he give it one more try if that's what he wants? I do think his team needs to be more aggressive about making sure that he gets higher levels on spins etc.

FWIW I agree with the decision to send Miner to Worlds. But if every skater who didn't make Worlds quit, that would make one hell of a boring competition. (yeah I know, only the older skaters should be put out to pasture...)

I don't get all these calls for skaters to quit in general. It's their lives, their dreams; it doesn't hurt anyone if they stay in. (especially those like Jeremy who will have a bye to US Nats and would not potentially be preventing someone else from making it through sectionals)

Hypothetically, if Jeremy can still go to the worlds with a triple, and his quad is so inconsistent, why not leave out the quad? Just do an immaculate triples program. He is more than capable of that. It may help his confidence just to skate cleanly. I'm afraid all the talk about "needing" a quad has gotten to him, and he is doing a jump he's not as capable of.

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that's what he said in a interview
he should have gone for a easier and safer jump.

Oh I wasn't calling for him to quit, but just that he needs to realize two things:

1) whatever issue he has must have been there for years now and still can't be fixed by him, his coaches, his physicians and his shrinks. It's the only thing separating him from success. He is too good not to have at least a world medal. But then if this issue can't be fixed for so many years, I am not optimistic that it can magically be fixed next season. Brown and Rippon are fixing their 3axel demons with some success yet he hasn't been able to fix his.

And since he hasn't been able to skate great more than once each season, even if he skates great and make it out of Nationals 2014, chances are he will have a hard time delivering at Sochi.

2) The USFS really did the best they could to lowball Farris' PCS and save the bronze for him instead. On the flip side, if they had wanted to keep him on the world team, a tiny little bump on each PCS component would have sufficed. IMO it was a calculated 3rd place for him.

No he needs to retire. When you are almost 30 and havent broken through at the amateur level it is never going to happen.

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He is 3 time US Champion and an Olympian. What exactly do you think skaters need to do to "break through"?

2) The USFS really did the best they could to lowball Farris' PCS and save the bronze for him instead. On the flip side, if they had wanted to keep him on the world team, a tiny little bump on each PCS component would have sufficed. IMO it was a calculated 3rd place for him.

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Said it in another thread and I'm going to say it again here: there is no way the 9 judges are good enough at math, and also working together to place the skaters that they would be able to place him just above Farris but off the world team, intentionally. It is possible they judged his PCS more harshly than other skaters, or more favorably- who knows, but I just don't think they can manipulate the results to the extent some people believe. It isn't like voting as a block in 6.0. To keep him off the world team, but at the bronze would have taken an insane level of coordination and calculation. (Okay- if he happens to double the salchow, then give him X for transitions, if his step sequence gets called Level 3, make sure to only give +2 GOE, +3 will ruin everything!)