Ok so lately my issue is that whenever I go to the gym and try to do a move to get above an overhang where there is only one foothold to use beneath it, as I hang from the hold above the overhang my legs don't know what to do and they get all spastic and start turning in all directions underneath in a vain attempt to make the move easier. Do I just really need to pull up harder? Is there something I can do with my legs other than just try to jam into the foothold in some odd way? What am I missing? How come this always happens near the top and then I fall and feel extremely frustrated, not to mention sweaty? Any advice is appreciated.

It is impossible to generalize. Apologies for saying things you already know...

Facing straight in to the wall is usually not effective.

You will have to get a leg, hopefully on a hold, possibly on a smear, over the lip. It generally helps to be facing sideways towards the hold you want to get your foot on; at the same time this allows you to reach higher with the hand that is on the side of your body closest to the wall, performing a "twist lock" with the lower hand almost straight rather than trying to pull in with back and bicep power. To face sideways, you'll want the outside of the low foot on the hold.

If you have both hands high over the ceiling, it can be hard to drag a leg up and over because your body is forced against the wall. If your high hold is good enough, try using the other hand low, somewhere just above the lip, to lever your body away from the wall and so create clearance for the high step.

Midsection control can help a lot. Hanging off your arm(s) with your butt out is a way to shake out, but not to progress. Your center of gravity will usually be in a better position if you thrust your hips forward---it is mostly a pelvic tilt and comes, I think, from the hip flexors and the glutes rather than the abs.

Some folks will tell you to forget about "getting strong" and just concentrate on technique, but I think some supplementary upper body work will be enormously helpful if you are weak in that department. However, this is a debate that fills entire threads.

It is easy to mistake low hand endurance for a lack of upper body strength. If your grip is failing, you may think your arms are weak but that may not be what is actually going on.

Developing more hand strength and endurance comes naturally for beginners by just climbing and getting tired. After you build up some basic capabilities, there are books and threads galore on how to train. Beware, starting in on that too soon may be a recipe for some very unpleasant overuse injuries.

Maybe, but probably not. I like to think there's always a more technical solution.

In reply to:

Is there something I can do with my legs other than just try to jam into the foothold in some odd way?

If your hands are over the overhang, and your feet are below, you've probably got to get a foot over the overhang as well to move upwards...so high step or cut feet and paste it up there. What you do from there depends...rockover/lockoff, outside flag, backstep flag, etc.

In reply to:

What am I missing?

A coach/helpful partners, the self-coached climber, a trip to the Gunks to get some practice on the many relatively easy roofs.

In reply to:

How come this always happens near the top and then I fall and feel extremely frustrated, not to mention sweaty?

Lots of gyms set pure power-endurance type routes where the moves are all roughly equal in difficulty and there are no good rests...that's a recipe to fall off near the top.

It is impossible to generalize. Apologies for saying things you already know...

Facing straight in to the wall is usually not effective.

You will have to get a leg, hopefully on a hold, possibly on a smear, over the lip. It generally helps to be facing sideways towards the hold you want to get your foot on; at the same time this allows you to reach higher with the hand that is on the side of your body closest to the wall, performing a "twist lock" with the lower hand almost straight rather than trying to pull in with back and bicep power. To face sideways, you'll want the outside of the low foot on the hold.

If you have both hands high over the ceiling, it can be hard to drag a leg up and over because your body is forced against the wall. If your high hold is good enough, try using the other hand low, somewhere just above the lip, to lever your body away from the wall and so create clearance for the high step.

Midsection control can help a lot. Hanging off your arm(s) with your butt out is a way to shake out, but not to progress. Your center of gravity will usually be in a better position if you thrust your hips forward---it is mostly a pelvic tilt and comes, I think, from the hip flexors and the glutes rather than the abs.

Some folks will tell you to forget about "getting strong" and just concentrate on technique, but I think some supplementary upper body work will be enormously helpful if you are weak in that department. However, this is a debate that fills entire threads.

It is easy to mistake low hand endurance for a lack of upper body strength. If your grip is failing, you may think your arms are weak but that may not be what is actually going on.

Developing more hand strength and endurance comes naturally for beginners by just climbing and getting tired. After you build up some basic capabilities, there are books and threads galore on how to train. Beware, starting in on that too soon may be a recipe for some very unpleasant overuse injuries.

It is impossible to generalize. Apologies for saying things you already know...

Facing straight in to the wall is usually not effective.

You will have to get a leg, hopefully on a hold, possibly on a smear, over the lip. It generally helps to be facing sideways towards the hold you want to get your foot on; at the same time this allows you to reach higher with the hand that is on the side of your body closest to the wall, performing a "twist lock" with the lower hand almost straight rather than trying to pull in with back and bicep power. To face sideways, you'll want the outside of the low foot on the hold.

If you have both hands high over the ceiling, it can be hard to drag a leg up and over because your body is forced against the wall. If your high hold is good enough, try using the other hand low, somewhere just above the lip, to lever your body away from the wall and so create clearance for the high step.

Midsection control can help a lot. Hanging off your arm(s) with your butt out is a way to shake out, but not to progress. Your center of gravity will usually be in a better position if you thrust your hips forward---it is mostly a pelvic tilt and comes, I think, from the hip flexors and the glutes rather than the abs.

Some folks will tell you to forget about "getting strong" and just concentrate on technique, but I think some supplementary upper body work will be enormously helpful if you are weak in that department. However, this is a debate that fills entire threads.

It is easy to mistake low hand endurance for a lack of upper body strength. If your grip is failing, you may think your arms are weak but that may not be what is actually going on.

Developing more hand strength and endurance comes naturally for beginners by jdust climbing and getting tired. After you build up some basic capabilities, there are books and threads galore on how to train. Beware, starting in on that too soon may be a recipe for some very unpleasant overuse injuries.

It is impossible to generalize. Apologies for saying things you already know...

Facing straight in to the wall is usually not effective.

You will have to get a leg, hopefully on a hold, possibly on a smear, over the lip. It generally helps to be facing sideways towards the hold you want to get your foot on; at the same time this allows you to reach higher with the hand that is on the side of your body closest to the wall, performing a "twist lock" with the lower hand almost straight rather than trying to pull in with back and bicep power. To face sideways, you'll want the outside of the low foot on the hold.

If you have both hands high over the ceiling, it can be hard to drag a leg up and over because your body is forced against the wall. If your high hold is good enough, try using the other hand low, somewhere just above the lip, to lever your body away from the wall and so create clearance for the high step.

Midsection control can help a lot. Hanging off your arm(s) with your butt out is a way to shake out, but not to progress. Your center of gravity will usually be in a better position if you thrust your hips forward---it is mostly a pelvic tilt and comes, I think, from the hip flexors and the glutes rather than the abs.

Some folks will tell you to forget about "getting strong" and just concentrate on technique, but I think some supplementary upper body work will be enormously helpful if you are weak in that department. However, this is a debate that fills entire threads.

It is easy to mistake low hand endurance for a lack of upper body strength. If your grip is failing, you may think your arms are weak but that may not be what is actually going on.

Developing more hand strength and endurance comes naturally for beginners by jdust climbing and getting tired. After you build up some basic capabilities, there are books and threads galore on how to train. Beware, starting in on that too soon may be a recipe for some very unpleasant overuse injuries.

Thanks, this was really helpful!

Do you mean you got better already?

Yes! It's a miracle!!

Ok, so no, I haven't yet fixed the problem, but I think the advice will help.

Perhaps stop being a fag.. man up.. do some core work. Climbers can be such little bitches.

1) pretty sure the OP is a female

2) Perhaps stop being such a douche?

You may or may not have missed the point.

Sungam .The only thing i can think of worse than the thought of a Scot hanging out the back of another Scot.. is a Scot hanging out the back of a Scot who is hanging out the back of a Scot. Some kind of Scotish human centipede thing going on. Gune take a while to get rid of that mental image, thnx ;/.

Perhaps stop being a fag.. man up.. do some core work. Climbers can be such little bitches.

1) pretty sure the OP is a female

2) Perhaps stop being such a douche?

You may or may not have missed the point.

Sungam .The only thing i can think of worse than the thought of a Scot hanging out the back of another Scot.. is a Scot hanging out the back of a Scot who is hanging out the back of a Scot. Some kind of Scotish human centipede thing going on. Gune take a while to get rid of that mental image, thnx ;/.

2 is company and 3 is a crowd? I see where you are coming from. Sometimes it's gotta be just the two of you, mano e mano, man geigen man.