Sounds like this might be Cliff the Postman pretending to be an actual scientist. By the way SETI did have one important function. It has thoroughly debunked the concept of a big bang beginning by acknowledging that there are many blue shift situations whereas a big bang would require an expanding universe with only red shifts!

ID is just as valid as any conceptual theory and probably fits the current, factual information better than other more traditionally held theories. SETI is probably worried that their funding might be cut if they do not support the politically correct version of reporting.

By the way SETI did have one important function. It has thoroughly debunked the concept of a big bang beginning by acknowledging that there are many blue shift situations whereas a big bang would require an expanding universe with only red shifts!

This, plus your claim to be An Actual Scientist, is making my B.S. meter twitch. Explain how the Big Bang cancels all proper motion, and renders orbital mechanics invalid.

ID is just as valid as any conceptual theory and probably fits the current, factual information better than other more traditionally held theories.

As others have pointed out, there is no possible set of evidence or data which ID cannot fit.

In the spectrum of ID advocates you find people like Michael Denton, who assert that evolution is 100 percent naturalistic and has no deviations from the description given by mainstream biology. You have Behe, who accepts common descent, but believes God has intervened at some points. You have young earth creationists who believe that all variation is simply a matter of juggling existing alleles.

In short, there is no theory or hypothesis behind ID which limits the range of expected phenomena. There is nothing that is even potentially unexpected.

43 posted on 12/02/2005 10:55:46 AM PST by js1138
(Great is the power of steady misrepresentation.)

It has thoroughly debunked the concept of a big bang beginning by acknowledging that there are many blue shift situations whereas a big bang would require an expanding universe with only red shifts!

ID is just as valid as any conceptual theory and probably fits the current, factual information better than other more traditionally held theories

Where to you liberal fundamentalists dream this stuff up???

Of course you would expect some blue shifted objects under the big bang. The obvious example is the Andromeda galaxy, which is blue shifted because it is moving towards us (actually, the Andromeda and Milky Way galaxies will collide in the distant future). This effect is a consequence that the universe is not in absolute lock step: there are fluctuations and eddies. And fluctuations and eddies are exactly what you would expect from the big bang.

Indeed the variations in the observed mass distribution of the observable universe and in the cosmic microwave background are consistent with the levels of quantum fluctuations from the early big bang.

Duh

And, ID is not a theory at all. It was once, maybe, a working hypothesis. However, the total scientific output of ID is zero, so it cannot qualify as any kind of actual theory.

"Sounds like this might be Cliff the Postman pretending to be an actual scientist. By the way SETI did have one important function. It has thoroughly debunked the concept of a big bang beginning by acknowledging that there are many blue shift situations whereas a big bang would require an expanding universe with only red shifts!

Although your bunk has been properly debunked by a number of others I just have to put my 2cents worth in, lest anyone think I've gone missing.

For any lurkers out there that do not understand what the point of this post is, here is my interpretation.

The universe developed from the big bang which was not, contrary to what some believe, an explosion but a rapid expansion of space itself. It has been referred to as an inflation, where, much like dots on the surface of a balloon during the process of being inflated, the fabric of space is expanding, increasing the distance between cosmic objects.

If this all there was to the concept all we should see is a red shift in the hydrogen spectral line (a Doppler shift toward the red end of the spectrum) as all cosmic objects speed away from us. In this case a blue shift (a Doppler shift toward the blue end of the spectrum) would signify an object approaching us rather than receding from us.

It's obvious that the OP has forgotten that within expanding space, movement is possible and in fact all objects in space are doing just that, moving in observable and predicable patterns, including moving toward us more quickly than space itself is expanding. This gives us a blue shift.

"ID is just as valid as any conceptual theory and probably fits the current, factual information better than other more traditionally held theories. SETI is probably worried that their funding might be cut if they do not support the politically correct version of reporting.

Except ID starts from the false premise that only intelligence can produce what appears to be specified complexity, but SETI instead of relying on some shot in the dark premise of complexity, uses artificiality (in other words something we have yet to see nature produce).