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Wednesday 1 April

Warning: Do not look around in this community if you have not read the full series. People will discuss the chapters in the context of the series as a whole. This is not a place for first time readers.

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There is no need to use spoiler tags in the re-readers' discussions, except when referring to things that occur in the preview chapters from The Winds of Winter, A Dream of Spring, World of Ice and Fire, or A Game of Thrones television series; please use the following tag:

On an unrelated note: I'm dreading the next few Arya chapters. The next one begins the stretch during which the poor girl is tormented for half the book. Sad :(

I always thought Tyrion was better in the book and Cersei was better in the show (until she gets her own POVs in AFFC, that is). Tyrion's interactions with Cersei are always fantastic because you get his inner monologue mocking her lack of foresight and failure to grasp certain situations. Without those, she seems much more capable and intelligent on the show.

Tyrion, however, does so much thinking to himself that I feel like his character on the show, great as Dinklage is, suffers from a lack of all those internal musings.

This was an amazing chapter for Tyrion. The beginning of ACOK was Tyrion's heyday in this series. He has loyal, formidable muscle in Bronn and the hill tribesmen, actual authority thanks to his father, and a level playing field. It's so much fun reading him in this segment of the book.

Absolutely right. Up to the Battle of the Blackwater, Tyrion is the real master of KL. In the book, he's the one responsible for the wildfire, where the show lets us believe Cersei arranged it all. The show leaves out the chain entirely. In this chapter, Tyrion has managed to expose Pycell as Cersei's tool and he will never recover from this. He also strips Cersei of her private guard - while simultaneously sending covert troops into Riverrun. And he set up the marraige alliance with Dorne. Just brilliant! He can play the game every bit as well as Varys and Littlefinger. This is his moment to shine; after Blackwater, Tyrion is tossed aside like a used Kleenex.

I completely agree about the show missing a lot by not being able to delve into what Tyrion's thinking.

Example: When Tywin informs Tyrion that he's going to King's Landing, what the show can convey misses out entirely on how Tyrion feels

Tywin rose abruptly. "You are my son."

That was when he knew. You have given him up for lost, he thought. You bloody bastard, you think Jaime's good as dead, so I'm all you have left. Tyrion wanted to slap him, to spit in his face, to draw his dagger and cut the heart out of him and see if it was made of old hard gold, the way the smallfolks said. Yet he sat there, silent and still.

This is totally Tyrion's book. It feels like either GRRM loved writing him in the first book, or got strong response from the first book, and stepped up his role. I love how SoS has him in a less important position, but he still plays a big role in the story. DwD kind of just has him drifting along. Here's hoping to see him as the Hand of the Queen of Dragons.

EDIT THE SECOND: I've gotten really curious about whether or not this is an homage. I can't figure out if GRRM is a Star Trek fan, but he apparently gave some advice to ST writer Melinda Snodgrass that helped her write one of the best TNG episodes, "The Measure of a Man" Link

a while back on his blog he talks about going to see the Star Trek movie.

But anyway, in addition to being (what i think is) a nod to DS9, this "everything is true--even the lies" reminds me a little of One Flew Over the Cuckoo's nest line “But it's the truth even if it didn't happen.” Which, strangely, relates back to DS9: the actress who played nurse Ratched in the movie also played the character Kai Winn in DS9.

I don't get why Tyrion isn't concerned about Thorne's story. Why would the nw come up with a story like that? They're friendly with Tyrion who is acting as hand of the king so it wouldn't be necessary to come up with lies just to get men for the wall. Tyrion could have talked to Thorne privately, as not to lose face in front of the court, but he doesn't even think about it.
Of course zombies sounds pretty for out. It makes me wonder what has to happen before the people of the south will take the others seriously. And how will they react when they do?

Like everybody else I'm also quite happy reading Tyrion's chapters in this book because he is so boss. Yay.

It's not so much that he wants to dismiss the story, but he does want to dismiss Ser Alliser, who he found bitter and spiteful in their interactions on the wall. There's also a bit of insecurity at play - he wants to maintain his authority, and showing concern about a zombie story in open court is not the best way to do so. It's a definite mistake on Tyrion's part, one of the first mistakes he makes in ACOK.

Back in the Jon chapter where Mormont sends Thorne away to KL with the twitchy hand, I thought that what appeared the first time through as an elegant solution to pair of problems was actually a fairly significant mistake by the Old Bear in terms of soliciting actual help from the crown.

Not just that, but the realm is in the middle of a war and the Lannisters in a shaky situation. At this point in time there is nothing Tyrion can do about the zombie situation up north even if he fully realizes the danger, except maybe to send some men to the Wall, which he intends to do.

Ok, so from Tyrion III, Tyrion swipes a poison off the shelf. He puts this purloined poison into Cersei's arbor red and the result is Cersei sitting the porcelain throne for the day and Tyrion on the Iron one.

So the poison is either Tears of Lys or Widows Blood, then? Tears of Lys is sweet, so a very small quantity in the sweet wine wouldn't be noticed and shouldn't be enough to kill her only indispose her. With Widow's blood it's the same color as the wine so a small quantity of this might also do the job.

Now if Tyrion only uses a small quantity, only enough to make Cersei sick, what does he do with the rest of it?

ah. see i'm working on the angle that "everything is a poison in a high enough dose". Much like in-book sweetsleep, at a low dose, calms fits. However at higher doses will cause death. I was thinking a low enough dose of either Tears of Lys or Widow's blood would work for Cersei (and possibly Tywin(?))