Ahead of the curve on climate change

The Nats’ position on climate change constitutes willful negligence of our obligation to the world and to our children. They continually delay, and weaken, and obfuscate. Here’s Tim Groser, at it again:

Groser defends ditching of Kyoto

Climate Change Minister Tim Groser has defended New Zealand’s decision to drop out of the Kyoto treaty at global climate talks, describing the move as “ahead of the curve”.

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66 comments on “Ahead of the curve on climate change”

The graph you have posted suggests the effect of current pledges under the Kyoto protocol is tiny, to the extent of being almost entirely irrelevant. So I am struggling to see the relationship between the Kyoto protocol and the concerns you quote and express. To argue that the Kyoto protocol will have a material impact on reducing the risks the graph indicates, you would have to believe that someone other than (the largely service-based economies of) the EU and Australia (until its government changes next year) are going to sign up to an extension of the Kyoto protocol. I have seen no such evidence that is likely. (Of course, like the TPP, the negotiating text at the Doha talks is not public – that I can see anyway – so perhaps a whole lot of countries are planning to sign up that we don’t know about.)

FFS the EU is not a “service economy”, how can they be a “service economy” when agriculture and agricultural subsidies are such a huge part of their budgets? And when Germany, the strongest economy in the EU, is a major global manufacturer?

The significance is that total manufacturing has remained far steadier in the EU since 1990, whereas in China it has increased massively and even in the US it has risen 175% since 1990. So the Kyoto system tends to favour the EU against those other countries, which is why the EU is so much keener on Kyoto than anyone else (I know, I know, it should be about saving the planet). I don’t have all the data (the UN site will) but this is a rough summary – http://investing.curiouscatblog.net/2010/06/28/manufacturing-output-as-a-percent-of-gdp-by-country/

Perhaps, but the fact is there are going to be fewer Kyoto pledges – Japan and Canada, for example, the 5th and 7th biggest emitters, were in CP1 but won’t be in CP2. Of large(ish) emitters, only Germany, the UK, Italy and (temporarily) Australia are in. In the case of Germany, it figures it will be a Kyoto winner because of the effect of economic collapse in the East after Kyoto’s base year of 1990 and the UK is also believes it will be a winner because of decline in its manufacturing after that date. So, yes, I see no relationship between Kyoto and climate concerns, because Kyoto, even when more countries were involved, was not going to achieve much at all, and now will certainly not achieve anything.

(The counterfactual to this, is that NZ agrees to do CP2 and that inspires China, the US, India and Russia to sign up to the Kyoto system and for Japan and Canada to remain in. That is the case you have to make to argue that NZ signing up to CP2 would influence the graph Anthony has posted.)

What influence we have we are morally obligated to use for good – the good of the environment, the good of our children.

In all these countries that aren’t in Kyoto there are shills like Matthew Hooton who are making the same arguments. It’s too hard. No one else is doing it. Our contribution won’t make any difference. Let’s not bother.

Imagine if they all STFU and the countries of the world could get on with doing something together. We might even solve this problem, and leave a sustainable future for our kids.

Yeah I know – what a bunch of childish idealistic claptrap. Instead let’s be smart, sophisticated, greedy, and let’s all burn together. Top of the world!

Matthew pootin over 40% of the US is signed up to Kyoto while the federal govt has its hands tied by the gerrymandering right , State by State the US is working inevitably towards a form of ETS.
While our govt lets us subsidise polluters!Corporate communism you RWNJ’s call it!

I think you will find that efforts in the US to set up ETSs and introduce other GHG-mitigation schemes are entirely independent of the Kyoto protocol. Just as our ETS, the most comprehensive in the world, will continue whether or not we sign up for CP2.

Note how the idiot “scientist” you quote blames capitalism and free markets. Yet socialist countries use fossil fuels far more wastefully. Typical ignorance that exists within the warmist bubble of delusion.

What on earth are you talking about Steve Wrathall? Why don’t you actually punch out a proper point for a change instead of silly one-liners that have about as much use as a schoolyard argument. You sound like John Tamihere.

Trouble is there is a whole swag of the electorate who has the same opinion based on little understanding i.e ignorance and lack any ability or will power to find evidence for or against their position.

Meet them all the time Neoleftie and it never ceases to amaze me how a lot of these people managed to make so much money and then manage to hang onto it, altho a few have been fleeced by the the finance companies lately.

The amount of people including multi millionaires and business leaders I know won’t or can’t recognise or acknowledge the basic fact that Cullen under Helen Clark govt paid down debt levels whilst growing the economy is simply beyond understanding.
I’m the very odd one out in my extended circle a neo socialist green way believer.

Meanwhile, since being elected to power in 2008, the John Key led National Ltd™ government:

has been caught out repeatedly lying in the run up to and during the election campaign about its real intentions in relation to the environment

celebrated the opening of the foreign-owned Pike River Coal Ltd mine on DOC land adjacent to the Paparoa National Park from which 1 megatonne of coal will be extracted per year for the next 20 years – Pike River Coal Ltd has announced that it has found additional coal in the national park

said nothing to say in regard to the World Commission on Protected areas of IUCN’s severe criticism of its intention to investigate mineral resources and mining opportunities in protected conservation areas including our three UNESCO World Heritage Sites of Te Wahi Pounamu-South West New Zealand, Tongariro National Park and the Sub Antarctic Islands

Minster of Conservation Tim Grosser, on 29 August 2009, called for caring New Zealanders to halt their “emotional hysteria” and recognise that conservation land should be mined for minerals and went on to say “Mining in a modern, technological way can have a negligible effect”

Associate Minister of Conservation Kate Wilkinson, in an interview in “Canterbury Farming” (June 2010 issue now offline) rubished her own department, DOC, suggesting it was incapable of looking after the high country reserves and parks under its control

removed the ability of Auckland to introduce a fuel levy to fund planned public transport upgrades

left electrification of the Auckland rail network up in the air without promised funding commitments and then came through with a dodgy loan scheme and then unilaterally reorganised the local government structure before finally setting about the privatisation-by-stealth model when busting KiwiRail.

removed the programme to make Government Departments ‘carbon neutral’ and also began its first wave of public sector redundancies starting with the Ministry for the Environment which was responsible for the scheme.

set about revamping Auckland governance in a way that is likely to greatly reduce the ‘Environmental Watchdog’ role of the the current Regional Council (since completely fucked it up with the SuperShitty)

took a 0% emissions reduction target to Copenhagen. Yes, seriously, that isn’t a misprint – that was the lower bound of their negotiation platform – then missed the 01/02/10 deadline for commitment to action it had agreed to – meanwhile 55 of the 80 countries which attended did make the deadline

secretly cancelled the internationally recognised scheme for the mandatory labelling of exotic woods to ensure the timber has not been taken from rain forests in direct contradiction of its own statements made at the 13th World Forestry Congress in Argentina

gave the Department of Conservsation $1.7 million to further develop commercial activities on DOC land and started an “off set” plan allowing company’s to damage the conservation estate if they agree to improve land elsewhere – no monitoring regime has been suggested on put in place

announced a $1.69 million industry subsidy to kick start marine farming without identifying no-go areas nor putting in place a consultation process for individiuals, communities, and other general coastal users

was forced to release documents under the Official Information Act which confirm that DOC has “giving up” on ecologically valuable high-country land in the Mackenzie Basin because of funding cuts. The released documents cite “statements made by ministers”, “diminishing funding” and the Government’s new high-country policies as reasons for the changed stance – the comments from DOC were made after Land Information New Zealand (Linz), which manages the tenure review process, ignored DOC’s previous conservation recommendations for the farms

used former National Party minister and current director of Open Country Cheese – a company convicted of filthy farming practices and found by the supreme court to be a dodgy employer – Wyatt Creech to head up an enquiry into Environment Canterbury which had been standing up the dairy farmers’ demands for more and more water resources and less and less regulation. The Creech report recommended the Environmental Canterbury be sacked and replaced with government appointments and the voters of Canterbury do without democracy until the water situation had been resolved. The Canterbury area holds 50 percent of New Zealand’s fresh water reserves and 50 percent of the water required for hyrdo energy. The Creech report said Environmental Centerbury put too much focus on the environment.

Funded Government-owned company Solid Energy runs an essay competition entitled “ The role of coal in sustainable energy solutions for New Zealand” for school children. First prize is a trip to New Zealand’s largest coal customer, China.

Pressed on with PR bullshit about how New Zealand’s environment would profit from mining national parks, Conservation Minister Kate Wilkinson says.

Department of Conservation director-general Al Morrison said the conservation estate created “opportunities to do a whole lot for a lot of different people . . . we’ve got to get away from this idea that somehow we have to protect one-third of New Zealand for a certain constituency and put it in a jar of formaldehyde and leave it.”

Totally reversed gains made in the protection of National Parks and other high-value conservation areas in the South Island.

commenced a divide-and-rule strategy by attempting to paint New Zealanders interested in protecting the environment as outside of the “mainstream” and in defence of the fact that the media is catching to its bare-faced lies in the lead up to the 2008 election.

Carried on with more lies by talking about modern mining like that at Reefton being carried out by Oceana Golds as being like “key hole surgery”

Supported the Commissioner for the Environment’s decision to delay the release of a report into the ramifications for climate change in regard to lignite mining and proposals to convert the lignite into diesel.

Employed financial sleight of hand in shuffling funds towards business interests and away from community groups looking to protect the environment

Made more empty promises when a report showing that a third of New Zealand lankes have poor quality water is released.

Ignored the findings by attacking the messenger when a World Health Organisation report confirms that New Zealand’s main centres have the worst air in Australasia and Auckland is the most polluted with twice the concentration of damaging airborne particles as Sydney.

Studiously ignored so as to take piss about dire warnings concerning the quality of drinking water in Reidstone.

Didn’t mention in its 100% Pure promotions that visitors to the Kerikeri Basin near the Stone Store – one of Northland’s iconic tourism and heritage sites – could come face-to-face with warning signs telling them the water is polluted.

Put tourism operators in Akaroa at risk by refusing to make the harbour a marine reserve . . . and then rubs salt into their wounds

Done nothing after the United Nations finds that National Ltd™’s targets for reducing pollution are not consistent with the measures put in place to achieve those targets:

Attempted to defend the Emissions Trading Scheme from comparisons with the Australian model while Environment Minister Nick Smith indicates there’s little chance of the two schemes being integrated any time soon.

Then further slowed down the implentation of New Zealand’s Emissions Trading Scheme:

Allowed major retailers to reap the benefits of its earlier and secret decision to abandon the mandatory labelling of exotic woods after it is found that the retailers are contributing to the death of native Australian forests despite an independent, year-long investigation which finds otherwise.

tried to keep a meeting between John Key and mininng company Anadarko’s boss secret. The company is responsble for a massive oil spill and is looking to to start drilling off New Zealand soon.

Continued to ignore yet more evidence of farmers failing to comply with environmental regulations

handed over $400 million to farmers to extend water storage and allow for more land to be used for dairy farms. No mention or provision is made for additional protections required to deal with the increased pollution.

Didn’t point out in its 100% Pure promotion that tourists (and locals) should avoid the Opihi River along State Highway 1 because of the risk of exposure to toxins from phormidium.

Didn’t point out in its 100% Pure promotions that tourists arriving at New Zealand’s “nuclear free” sea ports will be sharing the environment with up to 5,000 tonnes of radioactive yellow cake uranium.

Kept stringing us along even after Next thing, New Zealand received the 2nd place Fossil Award for “proposing the most Flexible Mechanism imaginable with no oversight or review. Bring on the wild west. They want to be able to use any market mechanisms they wish with absolutely no oversight or international review! There would be no way to ensure that the units from one mechanism have not been sold two or three times to another such mechanism. This would likely unleash a wild west carbon market with double or triple counting of offsets and a likely increase of greenhouse gas emissions into the atmosphere.”

Pressed on with additional policies that move away from the protection of the environment towards exploitation

Limited , as part of its effort to cash-in on the environment, access to some of New Zealand’s most endangered species and isolated islands only to those who those who contribute financially displacing conservation staff and scientists.

National Ltd™ lies when it says New Zealand has the environmental laws and regulations to control oil and gas development on the continental shelf because thereis no equivalent of the Resource Management Act to control oil and gas activity outside of the territorial sea (12 nautical miles offshore).http://www.eco.org.nz/key-issues/oceans.html

lied when it had already agreed coastal plans to allow marine farming consent holders in the Waikato and Marlborough to move from mussel farming to finfish farming without considering the additional environmental effects imposed.

Put short-term business interests ahead of long-term consequences to New Zealand’s environment, particularly biodiversity by allowing damage in one area on the condition that it be “off set” in another creating a dangerous precedent in that such a provisin means that one part of biodiversity can be wrecked in return for “protecting” an area that was never under threat anyway.

Promoted proposals that include include a plant producing about 2 billion litres of diesel per year, using at least 12 million tonnes of lignite per year and another producing 3 billion litres using 12-17 million tonnes of lignite annually. A further project would produce by 2016 1.2 tonnes of the nitrogenous fertiliser, urea, using 2 million tonnes of lignite annually.

Documents obtained under the Official Information Act have revealed that DOC was intending to turn down Meridian (application to buils a damn on the Mohikinui River) and believed “the public conservation land within the Mokihinui River has such high value that it is most unlikely to be suitable for exchange at all.http://www.eco.org.nz/key-issues/energy.html

An independent report on the PSA virus outbreak was commissioned by the Ministry for Primary Industries (MPI) following the devastation caused by the virus in the Bay of Plenty orchards with an estimated cost of $400 million. The report found New Zealand’s biosecurity system is fundamentally flawed and there is no way of identifying how the virus got into New Zealand and, thus, no way of preventing it from happening again.http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/farming/7224595/Govt-ignored-biosecurity-warning-Labour

Documents pried from National Ltd™ under the Official Information Act show that senior government officials with serious concerns over projects in the Mackenze Basin and Waitaki Valley and hands out $180,000 of taxpayer cash. The decision to hand over the money was made by Nick Smith. More than half the cash went to environmental consultants – including about $88,000 to Ecologic, a firm run by Dr Smith’s friend Guy Salmon. Mr Salmon is also linked to the National Party ginger group the BlueGreens. The money trail shows: Ecologic consultant Guy Salmon: received $88,010 (includes $682 in restaurant and bar charges), Whanganui-based consultant Richard Thompson received $13,130 (includes $149 in restaurant and bar bills), the Environment Defence Society received $2256. Other expenditure included: restaurant and bar charges (at May, June and August meetings): $5495, and $30,800 for the production of two reports.http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/7327570/Money-for-mates-claims-to-be-probed-says-PM

National Ltd™ instructs its delegates at the world’s largest conservation conference, the International Union for Conservation of Nature’s conference in Korea, to oppose any further measures to protect Maui and Hector dolphins in defiance of 117 other countries and 460 environmental organisations requesting New Zealand ban gill and trawl nets in waters up to 100 metres deep.http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/116332/nz-votes-against-protecting-dolphins

A High Court decision says the effects on climate change cannot be considered under the Resource Management Act (RMA) as updated by National Ltd™. The Court decision came after an appeal was made against an earlier decision to allow Australian-owned mining company Bathurst Resources (also known as Buller Coal) to build a 200-hectare open-cast coal mine on the plateau and mine 80 million tonnes of coal that, when burnt, will release about 200 million tonnes of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere.http://www.forestandbird.org.nz/what-we-do/publications/media-release/forest-bird-disappointed-climate-change-ruling

Submissions to a select committee considering the Emissions Trading Scheme by the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment, Jan Wright’s, and those of thers, to a select committee reviewing the Emissions Trading Scheme are ignored resulting in a Trading Scheme which “will have very, very limited effectiveness and has locked in subsidies to to the worst emitters indefinitely.”http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/118536/commissioner-dismayed-by-emissions-report

An international study measuring countries’ loss of native vegetation, native habitat, number of endangered species, and water quality reported in the journal PloS One shows New Zealand is 18th worst out of 189 nations when it came to preserving its natural surroundings. John Key remains relaxed.http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0010440

Pulls out of Kyoto just weeks after the OECD reports that global greenhouse gas emissions could rise 50 per cent by 2050 without more ambitious climate policies, as fossil fuels continue to dominate the energy mix.

The use of the “fraking” technique in oil and gas drilling/exploration is given the go-ahead by National Ltd™ despite the Parliamentary Commissioner for the environment pointing out there exists no effective regulations in case of disaster nor the ability to enforce what regulations are available. Instead, monitoring and reporting and adherence to existing legislation is being left entirely up to foreign-owned multinationals doing the drilling.http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10850431

[RL:Yes it’s been posted several times. It’s BLiP’s own list and each time it gets longer. I personally released it from moderation where it landed because of it’s length. Of course if John Key’s National government didn’t hand BLiP quite so much material to work with…]

It is still high on the drawing board of the neanderthals and being pushed hard.

This should be at the top of the radar for environmentalists in NZ as it is being pushed hard. The currently proposed dart tunnel and monorail pale into insignificance in comparison with this environmental destruction. Even raising Lake Manapouri pales into insignificance in comparison.

This truly does suck. I am however impressed with the level of commitment many people of Te Waipounamu have towards protecting and preserving the unique character and wonder of their back yard. Kia kaha.

Thank youse, all. I do only add my wee list to environmental-type posts and try to wait until the comments thread has dwindled before jumping in, but pissing off InConfused is a bonus in this instance. I know there’s stuff missing and appreciate these latest items for addition. And, yeah, that “I’m lovin’ it” stuff from Key was very interesting, especially as how its been one of my regular throw away lines for ages when dissing him . . . nice to know: from my keyboard to his lips.

How imbecilic can one get?? Did you really mean what you wrote there infused?
Of course what NZ does has an impact. Votes for women 40 hour week – etc etc had NO impact on the rest of the world??
We are one of the most carbon emitting countries in the world per capita. By choosing NOT to join the second Kyoto period and then trying to defend that position Grocer’s actions have earned our country it’s 5th Fossil of the Day award.http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/WO1212/S00026/nz-gets-its-fifth-fossil-of-the-day-placing-at-cop-18.htm
That’s the sort of effect we are having now, and it’s hardly one of which to be proud.

John Michael Greer is right I reckon. Political parties will not be able to generate effective or politically credible responses to energy depletion and climate change. Lip service and nice gestures are going to be the best we can expect, and sometimes (like from this current Tory Govt) not even that.

Finally read the link in the OP. How can Groser get away with this bullshit? New Zealand is already a party to the FCCC – it predates the KP!!11!! The KP sprung up because the FCCC was symbolic then and still is. Un-fucking-believable what National Ltd™ can get away with.

We are past the point of no return, we have triggered about 8 positive feedback’s according to the people I listen to, it wouldn’t matter now if we went back to the cave, 7 billion humans = extinction … starting about now, ending in about 20 – 40 years
Not having children helps me understand these facts.

Probably Robert is correct. The chances are that within the lifetime of our children at least 90% of the human population will die off.

There may be a very short window of opportunity to prevent this, maybe five years. But the science has always been optimistic, in hindsight the problem was always worse than we had anticipated. So probably there is no window; probably we are committed to the 6 degC or more of warming and the catastrophe that this implies.

And so far governments have proven incapable of responding; the only hope … and it’s a slim one…. is for a series of storms and disasters on the scale of Sandy or larger within the next few years that compel a global response.

Personally I think that the time for taxation, trading schemes and footling around the margins is passed. We had that opportunity, but the deniers took it from us. The tobacco smoker was warned for several decades to quit voluntarily, now the cancer leaves us with no choices. Surgery or die.

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Labour will hold National to its promise to increase the support given to new parents of premature, multiple birth and babies born with disabilities, Labour’s paid parental leave campaigner Sue Moroney says. "I am naturally disappointed that after battling for… ...

Steven Joyce’s confession that he can no longer guarantee a pillar-free design for the New Zealand International Convention Centre shows the Government has abandoned its dream of creating an ‘iconic’ ‘world-class’ structure, says Labour Economic Development spokesperson David Clark. “Steven… ...

John Key might want to have a quiet word with Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott about Canberra's just-announced crack down on offshore speculators when he visits New Zealand this week, Labour's Housing spokesperson Phil Twyford says."Tony Abbott's centre right government… ...

National backbencher Jacqui Dean has spoken out about overseas driver crashes, putting herself at odds with Prime Minister John Key who is on record as saying it’s not a big issue, Labour’s Transport spokesperson Phil Twyford says. “I’m not surprised… ...

Last week I heard two Palestinians speak at Wellington events about the ongoing crisis in their country. Samar Sabawi spoke to a full house about the history of Palestine and gave us a lucid and disturbing account of the situation… ...

An Amnesty International report has once again criticised New Zealand’s track record on looking after our kids, Labour’s Children’s spokesperson Jacinda Ardern says. The annual report, which looks at global human rights abuses highlights not only the fact that high… ...

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The long-awaited release of an Education Review Office report into Northland’s troubled Whangaruru charter school proves it should never have been approved in the first place, Labour’s Education spokesperson Chris Hipkins says. “This report identifies problems with absenteeism and disengaged… ...

This week the Greens have participated in awareness activity about Manus Island, the refugee camp on an island in Papua New Guinea where Australia dumps asylum seekers. John Key says that he has every confidence in the Australian Government’s claim… ...

James Shaw has been doing a series of blogs on the Election Inquiry into last year’s general election. I thought this was a great opportunity to raise an issue very dear to me – accessible voting. Last year’s general election… ...

Housing will continue to be a big issue in 2015. The latest Consumer Price Index, released last month, shows both good news and bad news on the housing front. After years of being the most expensive place to build a… ...

It is amazing that you can hear the song of the endangered North Island kokako in South Auckland’s Hunua Ranges, less than 50 kms from the central city. A heavy schedule of policy workshops at the Green Party’s Policy… ...

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This week it was my privilege to work with Sri Lankan Tamil communities in this country and host Australian journalist and human rights advocate Trevor Grant. I knew a bit about Trevor from his biography but I didn’t know just… ...

The Government is about to progress the final stages of the Animal Welfare Amendment bill. This will be our last opportunity to get changes made to improve the bill to ensure a better outcome for animals. I have put forwards… ...

Access to buildings is a big issue for many New Zealanders. It looks like that, due to the hard work and persistence of people in the disability community, the Government may finally be starting to take access to buildings seriously.… ...

The Green Party today called on the New Zealand Superannuation Fund (the Fund) to divest from fossil fuels, starting immediately with coal. The call was accompanied with a new report, Making money from a climate catastrophe: The case for divesting… ...

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