Unless they are going to move him or ship him back to WBS, Despres needs to be in the lineup. I get it that they are in a bind with Bortuzzo, and I can get the idea that for now you might question 47 against a physical team, but, Florida seriously. This is a team that is made for Despres. When the late scratch came in, I thought for sure he was traded. Seriously, give Engelland a night off here or there, he needs it. Letang made a bad decision trying to do too much; but at the same time, Nisky looked terrible of the 2 on 1 for the game winner. I've never seen a defenseman play a 2 on 1 in that fashion. Stupid decisions and stupid penalties cost us tonight; terrible penalties by Kennedy, Glass, and Neal. If we don't become more disciplined, it doesn't matter who we trade or who we get; we're facing a repeat of last year.

saints11 wrote:Unless they are going to move him or ship him back to WBS, Despres needs to be in the lineup. I get it that they are in a bind with Bortuzzo, and I can get the idea that for now you might question 47 against a physical team, but, Florida seriously. This is a team that is made for Despres. When the late scratch came in, I thought for sure he was traded. Seriously, give Engelland a night off here or there, he needs it. Letang made a bad decision trying to do too much; but at the same time, Nisky looked terrible of the 2 on 1 for the game winner. I've never seen a defenseman play a 2 on 1 in that fashion. Stupid decisions and stupid penalties cost us tonight; terrible penalties by Kennedy, Glass, and Neal. If we don't become more disciplined, it doesn't matter who we trade or who we get; we're facing a repeat of last year.

Nisky was alright on the 2 on 1. He back checked to the pass option and let Fleury play the shooter. THat is what is supposed to happen on a 2 on 1. It was weird because it was almost a 2 on 0 and Nisky was skating with the opposition trying to get back, opposed to skating backwards. Fleury was beat by the shooter. If a pass get through then you blame Nisky.

saints11 wrote:I've never seen a defenseman play a 2 on 1 in that fashion.

?

It was almost a 2-0. Nisky did not skate backwards to ensure he was able to position himself to attempt a pass. It was awkward, ugly and it ended up in the back of the net. Let's hope we don't see many 2-1 defended like that, but he did what he could.

saints11 wrote:I've never seen a defenseman play a 2 on 1 in that fashion.

?

It was almost a 2-0. Nisky did not skate backwards to ensure he was able to position himself to attempt a pass. It was awkward, ugly and it ended up in the back of the net. Let's hope we don't see many 2-1 defended like that, but he did what he could.

Yeah. On the replay view from the opposite end of the ice you could see he was hesitant on whether to challenge the skater or start going backwards immediately. That indecisiveness caused him to lose a half-step, which is why he was sort of useless looking on the play. An all-around comedy of errors on the defense there.

NIskanen played it the way he was supposed to, and I'm fine with that. But I kinda think if that was Letang he would have jumped to challenge the shooter at the end, and maybe 80% of the time he breaks it up, 20% a pass gets through to the guy wide open. Then maybe it's 50-50 on whether the puck ends up in the back of the net.

Letang takes these kind of risks, which is why sometimes he looks like a goat, and other times, looks brilliant. He's still young on the development curve for defensemen, so he'll continue to learn thse things. But this is why its important Despres and Bortuzzo should be playing if we have any plans of relying on them in the playoffs.

DudeMan2766 wrote:Not to nit pick or get off topic, because that never happens in these parts, but is it really necessary to quote the OP when you are the first reply?

You can never be sure if yours really is the first reply. I sometimes reply without quoting, but when I submit I realize someone else has already replied and it looks like I'm replying to the reply, which makes my reply appear even more incoherent than my usual gibberish.

Engelland would be my 7th right now. I'd play Despres and Bortuzzo on the bottom pair ahead of him. It's not that I think Engelland has played that bad; I just think Bortuzzo plays a very similar game and does most of it better. I will say I have been surprised at Engelland's skating at times this year. He's skated the puck out of trouble a few times; not used to seeing that.

I agree totally with you in that Engelland should be the 7th D. I would also slit up the pair of Letang and Niskanen. If Orpik and Martin are your shut down 1 & 2, I would play Letang with Despres. This would be done for two reasons. First, that would play Despres more minutes, which I think he could handle and in addition, Letang seems to play more under control when paired with his French Canadian buddy. It isalmost as if he is more willing to play a little more conservative to let Despres be more aggressive and comfortable. He doesn't do that with Nisky. Seemingly, he adopts the belief that Nisky will be back there and he can be overly aggressive. That can lead to errors like last night against the Panthers. Also, I think Niskanen would be a better mentor for Bortuzzo than is Engelland, and the two rooks are not on the ice together.

I'm pretty sure that DB isn't going to play Despes and Bortuzzo at the same time, because it would be happening if it were going to happen. ie I think Engelland is slated to be in there for the duration.

Steve Dave wrote:Letang was at fault, he continued to play as if still on the PP.

Yeah, I can't believe it took this long to bring this up. That was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen a defenseman do. For starters, there was no point for Letang to chase the puck other than his feelings got hurt that he turned the puck over again, and that doesn't even consider that he has to know that penalty was expiring. He's supposed to be the quarterback so there's just no excuse.

netwolf wrote:Engelland would be my 7th right now. I'd play Despres and Bortuzzo on the bottom pair ahead of him. It's not that I think Engelland has played that bad; I just think Bortuzzo plays a very similar game and does most of it better. I will say I have been surprised at Engelland's skating at times this year. He's skated the puck out of trouble a few times; not used to seeing that.

Steve Dave wrote:Letang was at fault, he continued to play as if still on the PP.

Yeah, I can't believe it took this long to bring this up. That was one of the dumbest plays I've ever seen a defenseman do. For starters, there was no point for Letang to chase the puck other than his feelings got hurt that he turned the puck over again, and that doesn't even consider that he has to know that penalty was expiring. He's supposed to be the quarterback so there's just no excuse.

netwolf wrote:Engelland would be my 7th right now. I'd play Despres and Bortuzzo on the bottom pair ahead of him. It's not that I think Engelland has played that bad; I just think Bortuzzo plays a very similar game and does most of it better. I will say I have been surprised at Engelland's skating at times this year. He's skated the puck out of trouble a few times; not used to seeing that.

Exactly. Engo is the least talented of all the dmen and really doesn't do anything great other than fight. He should not constantly be playing while Despres and Bortuzzo get benched. But, as I've said before, Bylsma simply is not a fan of playing young players ahead of vets and I fully expect this to continue.

netwolf wrote:Engelland would be my 7th right now. I'd play Despres and Bortuzzo on the bottom pair ahead of him. It's not that I think Engelland has played that bad; I just think Bortuzzo plays a very similar game and does most of it better. I will say I have been surprised at Engelland's skating at times this year. He's skated the puck out of trouble a few times; not used to seeing that.

Exactly. Engo is the least talented of all the dmen and really doesn't do anything great other than fight. He should not constantly be playing while Despres and Bortuzzo get benched. But, as I've said before, Bylsma simply is not a fan of playing young players ahead of vets and I fully expect this to continue.

Orpik-MartinDespres-LetangNiskanen-Bortuzzo

I've always liked Engo but Bort has similar attributes with more upside. I don't think Nisky is quite top 4 but he is outstanding as #5 and should be #1PP with Martin. Love Despres-Letang, both players look more relaxed together but Bylsma seems intent on sacrificing chemistry, talent and development in favour of 'toughness' (though at 6'4'' 205lbs I really don't see Despres as soft).

I can't think of any available forwards I would trade Despres for, he's already very solid both sides of the puck and will only get better.

netwolf wrote:Engelland would be my 7th right now. I'd play Despres and Bortuzzo on the bottom pair ahead of him. It's not that I think Engelland has played that bad; I just think Bortuzzo plays a very similar game and does most of it better. I will say I have been surprised at Engelland's skating at times this year. He's skated the puck out of trouble a few times; not used to seeing that.

This.

- the board's resident Engelland hater

Engo is one guy we've never agreed upon Mikey, shocked to see this! I think his skating is underrated, he's surprisingly smooth (at times) carrying the puck. Unfortunately his foot speed/acceleration and lateral movements from a stationary position let him down, eg. he can look painfully slow adjusting to plays around the net. The more I think about it (with the emergence of Bortuzzo) the more I'd like to see Engo playing 4th line. Just enough North-South speed to forecheck, can certainly hit, defensively aware and wouldn't put the team down a D when dropping the gloves. Plus HCDB will have one less 6/7 Dman to play ahead of the plethora of prospects!

Yeah, I know there's no way outside of injury that Despres-Bortuzzo will both play.

And again, I don't hate Engelland. I think his skating is improved. The one thing I would like to see him do a better job with is picking his spots as far as fighting. There was a game against NJ I think where someone (Clarkson?) boarded Despres and it went uncalled. Engo skated over to him and they talked, but ultimately nothing happened. Fast forward to a PHI game and he's following Rinaldo all over the place trying to get him to fight, and he hadn't done much to that point. To me, if you are going to push the issue and take an extra penalty, you do it in response to a cheapshot on one of your teammates.