(02-12-2013 10:35 PM)nach_in Wrote: Power and crowd control. If you look closely, is not just about sex, is about every human need, don't eat pork or red meat on fridays, use this or that kind of clothes, don't drink liquor or coffee, clean yourself in this or that way, don't accept blood or organ donations, and so on...

Nonsense. You just made that pile of crap up. There were ancient societies that were undemocratic, devoted to war but where homosexuality was not prohibited.

(02-12-2013 10:35 PM)nach_in Wrote: Power and crowd control. If you look closely, is not just about sex, is about every human need, don't eat pork or red meat on fridays, use this or that kind of clothes, don't drink liquor or coffee, clean yourself in this or that way, don't accept blood or organ donations, and so on...

Nonsense. You just made that pile of crap up. There were ancient societies that were undemocratic, devoted to war but where homosexuality was not prohibited.

(02-12-2013 10:55 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote: Based on the Old Testament, I think its fairly reasonable to think that the Israelites had a similar system. Absolute control, absolute conformity and a culture built on warfare.

So why then was homosexuality not prohibited in Ancient Celtic societies (amongst many others)?

(02-12-2013 10:35 PM)nach_in Wrote: Power and crowd control. If you look closely, is not just about sex, is about every human need, don't eat pork or red meat on fridays, use this or that kind of clothes, don't drink liquor or coffee, clean yourself in this or that way, don't accept blood or organ donations, and so on...

Nonsense. You just made that pile of crap up. There were ancient societies that were undemocratic, devoted to war but where homosexuality was not prohibited.

(02-12-2013 11:22 PM)EvolutionKills Wrote:

(02-12-2013 11:20 PM)Chippy Wrote: Nonsense. You just made that pile of crap up. There were ancient societies that were undemocratic, devoted to war but where homosexuality was not prohibited.

I didn't say every society control every aspect of people's life, just mentioned several examples of different religions to make the point that sodomy is not special, is just one more things societies use to control their own people.

And greek societies weren't so egalitarian and open minded, they just perceived sexuality differently than we do. Male homosexuality was usually in the form of pederasty, in which the older man took the active role and the younger the passive role in a teacher/lover relationship. It was weird and it wasn't free of sexual hierarchies and power tension.

I know that we like to use them as an example of how advanced they were in comparison to us, but they weren't that free and inclusive as we may think at first glance

(02-12-2013 11:32 PM)nach_in Wrote: I know that we like to use them as an example of how advanced they were in comparison to us, but they weren't that free and inclusive as we may think at first glance

Which contradicts your contention that the prohibition on homosexuality is about "control". There are many ancient societies--besides Sparta--that weren't free by the standards of the West today and they did not prohibit homosexuality. The idea that morality is that activity which is concerned with appeasing an angry deity entered into Western thought via Judaism. You can read Aristotle's Nichomachean Ethics to get an idea of how the Ancient Greeks viewed morality prior to Jewish contamination.

You are inventing fairy-tales that erase the damage Jews have done to Western thought.

Sodomy is wrong, not only because it is the avenue of homosexuality, but because it can't create a child. We have to keep the wermens pregnant and barefoot or they start getting all kinds of crazy ideas about driving and voting.

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who has said it- not even if I have said it- unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. - Buddha

(02-12-2013 10:55 PM)Paranoidsam Wrote: Based on the Old Testament, I think its fairly reasonable to think that the Israelites had a similar system. Absolute control, absolute conformity and a culture built on warfare.

So why then was homosexuality not prohibited in Ancient Celtic societies (amongst many others)?

Because the Celts were an entirely different culture... from what is now Great Britain and Ireland.

The Israelites and Hittites were from the same region and therefore probably had cultural similarities. The Bible mentions Hittite soldiers fighting for King David... If the Old Testament is an insight into life for the Israelites, then it seems likely that they had a regime similar to the Hittite fascist-like system.