Butler to the A-10 is an illegal move by you they are in your new Midwest (which we are saying is better than the A-10 since X, STL, Dayton are in it.)

So you think the A-10 would go after lesser schools like Boston, Siena, Holy Cross. VCU is bad ass year in and year out. Temple never made the Final 4. Mason did. If every conf. has to add a new market all the time your conference will look like the WAC or GWC.

What about the pressure of the SBC wanting Denver to find a new home or maybe saying in the future you must have football. If no one wants them Sky, WCC where else but the Summit?

The CAA doesn't want another fb school they have 14. I put UNH in because they are a partial member(FB) Davidson, great southern bball school to help with the isolation of UNCW & Ga St.

Butler to the A-10 is an illegal move by you they are in your new Midwest (which we are saying is better than the A-10 since X, STL, Dayton are in it.)

So you think the A-10 would go after lesser schools like Boston, Siena, Holy Cross. VCU is bad ass year in and year out. Temple never made the Final 4. Mason did. If every conf. has to add a new market all the time your conference will look like the WAC or GWC.

What about the pressure of the SBC wanting Denver to find a new home or maybe saying in the future you must have football. If no one wants them Sky, WCC where else but the Summit?

The CAA doesn't want another fb school they have 14. I put UNH in because they are a partial member(FB) Davidson, great southern bball school to help with the isolation of UNCW & Ga St.

Of all the conferences, the one I get the most info about is the A10 (since I started with any sports media while working in the sports department for radio in amherst). The schools I mentioned have been mentioned. The CAA schools that have had some buzz were ODU and a longshot, Hofstra. But Hofstra never gained much steam. After the A10, the most info I actually have ends up being in the region with the AE, CAA and Big East.

I can tell you for sure: the A10 wants NOTHING to do with (2) commuter schools like VCU or GMU. It takes more. The A10 is mostly private schools with the exception of UMass, URI, Temple and Charlotte. That's 4 or 14 schools. If the A10 were to ever go the state school route, you can be sure it wont' be commuter schools. The votes wouldn't be there. It's that simple.

Big picture: Siena, Boston University and Holy Cross are all superior to VCU and GMU if you are the A10 (mostly private schools), contrary to a couple good years by commuter schools VCU and GMU.

As for the CAA, again, 4 schools LEFT the AE so that they wouldn't have to play schools like UNH. The votes aren't there for UNH, nor is there any interest. The CAA made it clear that markets were their #1 concern with expansion. Northeastern was chosen for the Boston market and to secure the CAa football sponsorship. Northeastern trails BC, Harvard, UMass and BU in market coverage. They then took Georgia St. from the TAAC/A-Sun for the Atlanta market. Markets have been their goal.

As for SoCon schools leaving for the CAA: not so fast. If you recall, College of Charleston rejected an invite from the CAA (they were the #1 choice by UNCW to be a travel partner). CofC stayed in the SoCon since it was a better fit with georgraphy, mission and schools.

As for butler, yes. But for now it's more likely that there is a Big East split and Xavier is included since there would be 6 BE basketball schools that would likely keep the NCAA autobid (a new conference would not have an autobid). Xavier has been eyeballed by BE schools since 2003 when they first thoughts of a split became public.

Quinn show me your other school options for my proposal. I want to see your version. I need other points of view.

It's a really big trickle-down scenario, a great one to start a new dedicated thread about (go for it).

The problem is with the assumptions. If there is a Big East split, the A10 will then get first dibs at replacing lost schools with the non MVC schools (Horizon, MAAC, etc). So if there is the BE split, sadly, a midwest private league is likely out. Boo.

But to answer your question, I think there needs to be a factor of "what conferences want to expand". We know what conferences are happy where they are at. So expanding them to 12 (when they have no football) makes less sense. In some cases, it means splitting the money another way and getting less in return.

The trends seem to point towards the MVFC eventually adding both Dakota schools for football only...perhaps a push to get to 12 like the CAA. It's worked for them just fine. This would still leave the 4 Dakota schools out for all-sports. But while many seem to favor St. Louis and Butler to the MVFC as members, I for one would rather see an eventual alignment with 8-10 of the all-sports schools teaming up. The only way this would ever happen though would be if some of the private schools left on their own if there were some new mid-west conference...which likely wont' happen.

But I could see a league on the FCs level that one day could become FBS. Just would require some risk and Wichita St. adding football:

NDSUUNDSDSUUSDUNIWichita St.Missouri St.SIUIllinois St.Indiana St.

But it would also be a fine all-sports conference with 5 members without football:

At the MVC level, the TV contract would be limited. So saving in travel (home-home with all devision members, 1 game each year [3 or 4 home, 4 or 3 road] vs other division team for a total of 19 conference basketball games) might actually give the financial savings to justify growth to 14.

The proposed rules regarding FCS-to-FBS transitions requiring a conference invite might put a damper on the Missouri Valley Conference moving up as a whole, but if it were to happen, it would make sense for the MVC to admit North Dakota State and South Dakota State prior to moving up. Those two, along with Wichita State, Northern Iowa, Missouri State, Southern Illinois, and Illinois State split and form the FBS conference, and invite at least two other FBS schools (probably North Dakota and South Dakota). The remaining five schools (Indiana State, Bradley, Creighton, Drake, Evansville) join the Summit.

New MVCNorth Dakota (from Summit)North Dakota State (from old MVC via Summit)South Dakota (from Summit)South Dakota State (from old MVC via Summit)Northern Iowa (from old MVC)Wichita State (from old MVC)Missouri State (from old MVC)Illinois State (from old MVC)Southern Illinois (from old MVC)

Indiana State heads to the OVC. If the Summit brings someone in alongside North Dakota (such as Denver) and doesn't have any more departures (such as Southern Utah), one more team would need to move to a new conference-such as Evansville to the Horizon League, or Southern Utah to the Big Sky.

In the long term, the new MVC could target Nebraska-Omaha, Minnesota State-Mankato, St. Cloud State, as well as former conference mates Western Illinois and Northern Iowa should the conference want to go to 12.

Summit will invite North Dakota farily soon, which will put them at 11. They will want to move to 10 or 12.It seems that Southern Utah will eventually move to the Big Sky. If that happens, the Summit could stay at 10.The Summit could also add 1 or 2 of the remaining Sunbelt non-football schools - Denver and / or UALR - to get to 12.

Quinn - I think you meant to suggest that St. Louis / Butler go to the MVC (not the MVFC, since St. Louis has no football)

At some point, the MVC and Summit are gravitating to becoming "sister conferences" and the MVFC could incorporate the FCS football schools in each. Southern Utah is a geographic outlier, but if they were to leave the Summit, you'd have 5 FCS teams in the Summit and 5 in the MVC (+ the MVFC currently has Youngstown State). I think Youngstown State would like to eventually move up to FBS football, as part of becoming an all-sports member of the MAC.

I'm betting that Patti Viverito is thinking that North Dakota and South Dakota would come into the MVFC together at some point, and when they do, they don't want to be stuck at the number "11" - either 10 teams in one division or 12 teams in 2 divsions. Both schools are committed to the GWFC for 3 more years, so it's pre-mature to discuss this publically right now. Once a bit more of the anticpated shake-out takes place, the preferred expansion option may become more obvious.

Note that the MVC and the Summit are D-I conferences, just like the Big Ten, SEC, PAC, ACC....

The ONLY disciminator is the status of football (FBS vs. FCS). The MVFC is techinically a collection of FCS football schools, lumped into a football conference (for the sport of football only). Patti Viverito is conference commisioner of both the MVFC and the Pioneer League, which sort of rent office space from the MVC Conference headquarters in St. Louis, MO.However, techinically the MVFC and the Piioneer are INDEPENDENT of the MVC.

My point is that all the schools you list already have all of their other sports in D-1, alongside the major conferences. If they wanted to play FBS football, all the members of the MVFC would need to move ONLY their football programs from FCS to FBS. They would have to wait for the moratorium to end, and then discuss the mass movement with the NCAA.There are other precedents (at D-II and D-III) for such movements of "conferences as a whole". This would just need to be movement of a single sport (football-only) conference.

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