Zimmerman: Let there be thunder that makes the mountains tremble

The defendant’s friend, Frank Taaffe, described the defendant’s state of mind the night that he stalked and killed Trayvon Martin.

He was mad as hell and he wasn’t going to take it anymore.

Given that Taaffe uttered this statement after he found out about the shooting, I believe we can reasonably assume that he believed the defendant pursued and confronted Trayvon with murder in mind.

Why did he believe that?

Why was the defendant so angry?

What was it that the defendant was not going to take anymore?

I have puzzled over Taaffe’s statement ever since I heard him say it.

Despite a lack of objective evidence that would support a belief that the gated neighborhood was besieged by burglars and thieves, the defendant appears to have believed that was actually happening, or he pushed that false narrative in hopes of creating a justification for the Homeowner’s Association to hire him to provide security.

He also appears to have believed that the burglars and thieves were Black and they always got away.

Frank Taaffe told us that the defendant was mad as hell about that and he was going to put an end to it.

The defendant said during the NEN call, “fucking coons,” and “these assholes, they always get away.”

This explains why he got out of his vehicle and hunted for Trayvon, ignoring the dispatcher’s request not to follow him.

Indeed, we can see by his actions that he was “mad as hell.” Acting as police officer, prosecutor, jury, judge and executioner the defendant decided that Trayvon was one “fucking coon,” one “asshole” who wasn’t going to get away.

A little over two minutes after the defendant ended the NEN call, after telling the dispatcher to have the officer call his cell phone when he arrived in the neighborhood, he hunted Trayvon down and shot him to death as Trayvon was telling Dee Dee about the creepy man who stalked and frightened him.

Trayvon never found out who he was or why he stalked and attacked him.

He died in the dark and cold rain begging for his life and shrieking in terror and disbelief.

Although Trayvon was a good kid, it would not have mattered if he were the Devil incarnate.

He was unarmed and he did nothing except try to escape from a creepy man who stalked him, first in a vehicle and then on foot.

The defense effort to demonize him and his family disgusts and infuriates me.

Demonizing Trayvon, even if successful, is not a defense and evidence of bad acts or character, assuming such evidence exists, is not admissible.

240 Responses to Zimmerman: Let there be thunder that makes the mountains tremble

I want to say thank you for publishing this website. I found it through an entertainment forum. People were very worried about Dede “lying” and the case being in jeopardy. One of the posters linked this blog and told people to stop panicking. “Fogen’s” lawyers are writing media stories because after reading this website I learned that her “lie” wasn’t really a lie and it had no bearing on the case. Especially when BDR has her phone records proving the timeline of events and other witnesses confirm her testimony of Fogen interrogating Trayvon asking him what he is doing there.

One of the most disgusting things to occur in this tragic murder case is how partisan divides were created. It sickened my how the political right jumped to the defense of a child murderer. I understand the politics of the blog owner and we differ. I believe in free markets and free people but defending a murderer has nothing to do with that. I remember Derbyshire from National Review publishing his piece about how fears of blacks were warranted. I remember Newt Gingriches ridiculous comment about how Obama wouldn’t care about the murder victim if he were white. The only sensible statement came out of the mouth of Gov. Romney but it was too late. It was then that I knew the Republicans were throwing away what could have been an easy victory. I know many people who were going to give Romney a chance, many moderates who were displeased with Obama. But then you have Hannity and the whole conservative blogosphere defending Fogen. SMH. So many people in his party defended Fogen now people have more evidence to confirm the Republican=racist stereotype. We are all human, aren’t we? Can’t we all agree that children should be safe walking to the store to get candy?

As a black mother that is one of my fears, my child being targeted or stereotyped in that way. Especially since my son is big for his age and autistic. These racists in describing Trayvon tried to turn him into some kind of hulking monster. His nickname was “slim” He was a child. Then they said, “oh he played football so Fogen was in danger.” Really? JV football, the all american sport? I live in the south and unfortunately high school football is like a religion. Are they really saying that all these young boys are dangerous thugs because they play football? It’s reminiscent of our ugly history.” Dangerous black bucks with super human strength roaming the streets threatening the “good folks.” They complained about the pictures of him. Well what pictures did they want? His autopsy? The one with the dried tear on his face and saliva dripping from his mouth? When Natalee Holloway went missing her mother released her smiling high school graduation photo. There were no pics of her drunk dancing with guys. But I don’t remember anyone demanding such pictures. She was the victim , and so is Trayvon. I mourned with the country for the deaths of Caylee Anthony, Lacee Peterson, Mary Winklers husband, and so on. So what is different about Trayvon the victim? The color of his skin.

This isn’t 1812, black boys and girls don’t have to show their freedom papers to walk freely in our country. How can anyone support anything Fogen did that night? We have him on tape targeting and following Trayvon based on his own suspicions. Why should we trust him? He is mentally unbalanced taking controlled medications, he isn’t trained law enforcement. If he had treated Trayvon like a human being he wouldn’t be facing a trial and Trayvon would be getting ready for prom and the end of school. How sad for Trayvon’s parents. If he were a decent human being he wouldn’t have behaved like a creeper. He would have smiled at the young boy extended his hand and offered assistance. He could have said, “Hey I”m George I live around here, are you lost.?” That’s what we do in my neighborhood. We help one another. He could have offered the young man shelter from the rain, anything besides ASSUME he was an “asshole” about to get away.

And how DARE Fogen say this was God’s will. BLASHPEMY! What God is he serving? This infuriates me, when people do bad things then blame it on God’s will. God had nothing to do with what happened that night

Anyone who listens to that scream knows it’s the last sound that poor child ever made on this Earth. Think of the panic, the fear. Knowing he was being hunted down like an animal. I do think Shellie was in the car that night. I think racist Taffy was in on it also.

I am beginning to think racism is a mental disorder. These people are sick. I recently read a slave narrative and these men knew black people were human. There was no logical or moral reason to torture my ancestors and treat us like animals for breeding and working. They knew black women were human, human enough to nurse and birth their children.

Thank you sir. I use my real name because of how outraged and hurt I am. This is my country that I love. I am hurt that this man is walking the streets. I am also frightened. I view comments on NY Times, Wash Post, HP supporting Fogen/tugboat and I wonder if I encounter these people in my life. Is there a “treeslum” nut working at the elementary school, preparing my take out meal, checking out my groceries?

As a mother, somewhat young, it’s hard listening to Trayvon scream for help. I understand the bystander effect but I just wish someone had talked some sense into Zimmerman. Maybe at least ran outside and yelled at him to stop. If only the police had been there sooner. Due to racism Trayvon may have been disbelieved by police but at least he would have been alive to tell the story.

Following this case is hard. I had to take a break because it was very difficult to read, especially the you tube videos. I am happy to see many blogs following the case and outing the conservatives supporting this child murderer. In talking to people around me I have really learned some ugly truths about people I thought I cared about. One person said they believe Trayvon’s death was a tragedy but they felt Trayvon was obligated to answer to Zimmerman. After hearing that I felt like I didn’t know this person, who would say such a thing? And do I want to associate with someone like this?

I”m going off topic again but I spent a lot of time being fair to the right. I defended them to people. I will no longer do it, they have proven themselves to be everything they have been accused of.

Thank you for letting me rant and vent. June 10th can’t come soon enough. An awesome birthday gift would be George admitting what he did and telling Trayvon’s parents what really happened. Explain to them how he stalked and killed their child. Then frisked him and molested his body like trash. Trayvon was going to be his “collar.” He was going to be his prize. I wonder if he took a photo like racists did in the antebellum south?

^5! I also despise the “boy” because he sure doesn’t operate on the level that a man IMO! I still say that he has some cognitive deficits here. I see them visually when I look at him, and I hear them when he speaks .His family tries to hide that fact, but when I hear him, I know. His medications also tell me a lot about his mental condition as well. His family knew he was sick and prone to violence and they ignored it, and they ignored him and this is the end result.

I am still trying to wrap my brain around the fact that he solicited for donations from the public because he claimed he was, “Standing His Ground” in the beginning, and most people didn’t know the facts of the case at that time, and sent him moneyHe has since abandoned that defense because he cannot prove it, and his lies all but obliterated that defense! He thought he would walk away from this..Well, we all now know that he murdered that boy, as he screamed and yelled for his Momma! I have never in my life heard of any accused perpetrator solcit for donations from the public! NEVER! Do you think that any of the now convicted killers in America, could have done what he did??

LOL. But it’s true – Fogen’s bro makes the excuse that he can’t go out, therefore he’s heavy, but he sure could rumble on some equipment if he wanted to. I spend most of my time indoors freelancing and can’t get away much, but I ain’t over a hundred pounds overweight. Maybe 10. I crank out on a stationary bike on breaks. Heck, it would help his mood problem tremendously too.

@MMP Osterman admitted to lending him another gun when he left the ‘Osterman Compound of Safety’ when the Panthers put out a hit out on him. It was the one found in the rental car when Fogen was arrested in April 2012. That and some extra clips and a knife in the car he was driving back from Va.

I agree with MMP. They confiscated the pistola for evidence. We could be seeing the top of another one (the story was at first that both Shellie and Fogen had the same model), but it looks like something smaller, although it’s located on that same right hip toward the back location.

We really don’t know how many handguns the couple owned, individually or jointly. The murder weapon was taken into evidence on the night of the shooting. You probably recall that immediately after the shooting a witness asked the killer whether he had used the 9mm or the .40 caliber which strongly suggests that they owned at least two guns. Because Florida law doesn’t require either a permit to purchase a handgun or registration thereof, they might have had a trunkload of them. Also, remember that GZ had Osterman’s Browning .25 with him when he came to visit Angela Corey. He might have been carrying that.

I love your site and totally appreciate that you give a voice to Trayvon. Most of you on here are his voice now because on that dark night in Feb. his voice was taken from him in the most senseless and what I consider to be nothing short of Evil way. Murders happen all the time, as a society I think we become calloused to them but then one happens, one that is just so wrong and unjust, that its almost like a call to action. Those of us without racist hearts that dont see color as an excuse to kill are touched and we get angry and we truly feel for the victim and those that loved him.

O’mara and West make me sick, literally listening to them especially West makes my skin crawl, there is something wrong with that man, with both of them actually. I believe the murderer has a right to a fair trial but demonizing the victim, his family, his girlfriend etc. is what makes them scum to me. They whine and cry because they have no money yet the money they did have was blown by George and his frivoulous BS.

Thank you for providing a place for Trayvon to be remembered, supported and heard.

Hi Allison. You are so right that many of us have become calloused — a perfect description — for slayings, rapes and other appalling criminal whatnot spashed across news headlines. From the beginning, there was something so egregious about Trayvon’s death that many of us across the land, across the pond, and elsewhere rose up to declare “NO, this guy, this police department, and this town are not going to skate on this stalking death.”

Fortunately, for legal guidance, we have the professor to keep us on the straight and narrow, and, accordingly, I think we’re all learning a great deal.

I’ll title this rant…Mother’s Day.
Reading everyone’s comments tonight brought to mind something I stumbled on while snooping the net. But first…

@diary talks about her son. You sense a mother’s love and heartache. Having “the talk”. Him going to college. She know’s what he desires to do with his life. She would stand up for him in a second, no doubt.

@rachel talks about her children picking berries “for her”, and I’m sure she has given a lifetime of love in return.

@deborah stated, “Even the Boston Bombers have not been as vilified as Trayvon. The parents parenting skills have not been questioned…” and it’s so true. The mother got on tv and declared her love for them even if everyone else think’s they’re pure evil. She stood up for them.

Lastly, @judy said,

He wanted to prove (possibly to his family?) that he was not the loser he really was/is.

I just want to know where is the mother’s love for Fogen??? Hidden in the shadows? Divided equally between her “kids” (or whomever kids they are)? They weren’t even talking to each other.

Makes you wonder about so many things.

We know GZ left VA and his parents for FL. When did Jr, Sis, Mom and Dad leave Va?

Could anyone stand to be around the other?
GZ is creepily close to sis but estranged to Jr for years.
Dad seemed to let Mom raise the kids and wear the pants, yet now she’s not even allowed to watch tv because he’s protecting her.

This is the home Ma and Pa were living in until they went into hiding because of the death threats. *coughBULLSHITcough*

They bought the home with Fogen on the deed. Not Gracie or Jr. Just the 3 of them. (I’ll link the sale below so I don’t get held up in moderation.)
And then they have him do a Quitclaim???
Most parents file one to leave the children their home without hassles after death. Or spouses during a divorce. Lots of reasons.

What would be the reason here? AND why was this the address Fogen had on his DL when he was arrested? He was taken off the deed in 2004. It was a year or so later that he turned off mom’s electricity. ’05 or ’06 I’d have to look it up. Was the electric bill still in his name? Hadn’t lived there in years. In FL you are required to change your DL address within 10 days of moving.

That’s some mother’s love story right there. I need to stop snooping the net.

Okay. Links are not working. Seminole County under maintenance. I can google and pull up the cache of the page but it won’t link. The house was bought by GZ, Ma and Pa in 2002 and sold by GZ to Ma and Pa in 2004. Maybe someone else can figure out Seminole County’s new site.

Sort of. I believe the story Dad put out was that the bought the place with the kntentkln of moving to Fla and asked/allowed G to live there in the interim. He published a long fam history ln one of the Z websites.

Lynn, I don’t have what it takes to view the above-linked document, but the description, George Zimmerman, Grantor, Robert Zimmerman and Gladys Zimmerman, Grantees, reads as though the parents lent money to their son with his share of the house as collateral. So if he never paid it back, the house would become theirs 100%. Just a guess.

This FAT B*****D, should have been charged M1 with the DP definitely on the table. hopefully he is also facing federal charges for a hate crime and, the DP is certainly something he could be facing. he didn’t have to shoot that kid, let alone kill him.

Hopefully he will be convicted and, if he is I hope everyday of his life in the steel bars hotel is nothing but pure HELL for him. it really sickens me to know that he has AA security guards even though he is racist to his rotten core. those who are dumb enough to risk their own lives for the likes of this murdering HEATHEN, are to damn stupid to know that they are being used to prove a point concerning this LOUSE.

They know exactly what he did to their brother, yet they can see fit to be his security detail. the B*****D is a COWARD and, he is not so damn bad without his wife’s gun. he is so afraid that someone is going to do to him, what he did to a child who was minding his own damn business. some people worry about how much weight he has gained in reference to his heart but, why should people be worrying about his beating heart, when he shattered the heart of a child?

I could care less about his heart or his health in general. anybody who can do what he did to Trayvon, IMO he doesn’t have a heart! yes I want him to make it through his trial and hopefully he will be convicted. after that, let the chips fall where they may.

Poor Trayvon begged and cried for his life and, this B*****D blew his little heart to pieces. Fogen deserves whatever evil he may have coming his way.

They know exactly what he did to their brother, yet they can see fit to be his security detail.

Well, think of it like this. GZ has no money of his own. A larger percentage of his financial supports are bigoted racists. They are probably not sleeping well at night knowing that their money is paying a Black man to provide GZ with security.

@Xena, that is one way to look at it but, it still make by blood boil to know he has AA security detail to protect his fat ass. I do understand where you are coming from as well.

Also, that big out of shape head of his is not protected and, he and his family have not been receiving threats of any kind. I thought the family of Caylee Anthony, were the worst of the worst but, this Zimmerman family is hands down and by far THE WORST family of a murder defendant that I have ever seen. have a good night/morning my friend.

I don’t blame the AA man who is providing security. He’s getting paid with money from racists to provide the appearance of security and undoubtedly knows that he is not in any real danger because no one is gunning for the defendant. That living-in-fear thing is just more proof, as if we needed any, that the defendant is a racist and a coward. Why not make some easy money as a stage prop and laugh all the way to the bank?

The rest of us are laughing at the defendant’s pathetic effort to make us feel sorry for him.

Watch the end of the hearing. When Fogen gets up to leave, the white guy who sits and watches Fogen like a hawk throughout the trial jumps up an accompanies him out of the courtroom. I watched that guy throughout the hearing, wondering who he was. Definitely Fogen’s security guy that day.
Course we really don’t know how many guys share that job.

I’ve always wondered how he could pin someone’s arm at the same time he manages to pull the firearm and shoot and you cast doubt on that unlikely scenario well, Xena.

It doesn’t add up and sounds like something Fogen invented to cover the real act of extending his arm to shoot that he actually shows us twice – probably grabbing Travyon’s hoody and shirt to hold him with his left hand, pulling down to get his hand out of the way when he shoots.

It doesn’t add up and sounds like something Fogen invented to cover the real act of extending his arm to shoot that he actually shows us twice – …

Yes. When listening to Witness 6’s interview again, I noticed that he VOLUNTARILY stated that he did not know if the guy on the bottom was holding onto the “shirt” of the guy on the top.

Witness 6 also gives a contrary testimony to what GZ says. GZ says that he wiggled off the concrete to the grass where the rest of the confrontation took place including the kill shot. Witness 6 says they moved off the grass to the sidewalk.

Then he says something damning to GZ’s story; i.e., the guy on the bottom raised his back off the ground. John then took off back in the house, and the next thing he hears is the gunshot.

Xena, you are using your video-making tool to great effect. I think you are on to something hidden in plain sight for more than a year. In slow-motion I see that he drew the gun, and the hand that he pretends is Trayvon’s, it was grasping the boy’s shirts as he tried to pull away in a panic.

In slow-motion I see that he drew the gun, and the hand that he pretends is Trayvon’s, it was grasping the boy’s shirts as he tried to pull away in a panic.

Yes. In the video where GZ took the voice stress test is another demonstration for how he made the shot. But, when GZ shows how he made sure his left hand was out of the way, he demonstrates something very incriminating; i.e., Trayvon could not have had either of his hands on GZ’s face.

I’m sure prosecutor or defense will present a log of all crime reports for Twin Lakes. If the perpetrators always got away, how did GZ know they were all Black. I would think that neighbors outside Twin Lakes would have similar crime problems if the reports are true. If the area is being overrun with crooks, wouldn’t there be some task force to investigate the problem.

I for one don’t believe this neighborhood was over run with crooks like Fogen, Otis and even Osterman said it was. there two more complexes besides RTL. now of the three why was this the only one with break ins running rampant? seeing that they are so close in proximity, yet this one IS the only one with a lot of break ins.

I don’t believe they were experiencing a multitude of break ins but, what they did have @ RTL was Frank Taaffe, Fogen and some other tenants who did not want AA living in their neighborhood and, this is why they complained about the apartments bringing down the value of their property. so, what a better way to rid themselves of their AA neighbors than to harass them and, cast suspicion on those who were guest in their homes.

Fogen’s bullying a 16 year old AA teen and calling LE with the lie of his stolen bicycle in the garage of it’s rightful owner. this and, Fogen’s following and going to other AA tenants homes, where all an attempt to harass these AA to the point that they would pack up and move. this was a joint effort by Fogen, Taaffe and a few others on the board of the HOA.

He even went so far as to ask an AA tenant to show him proof that he was a home owner there. smdh

He is such a useless POS. Every day this trial gets a little closer is one day closer to justice. Justice for Trayvon, his family, and even the neighbors you talk about in your post. It won’t be enough to allow me to not have to worry about my own son anymore, but hopefully it will be a small step towards it for all of us.

He looks like a damn jackass of a fool with that knuckle band aid on his nose, all for show. since when is a broken nose dressed with knuckle bandages? the same goes for his head. does he think people with common sense were buying his drama with the band aids, thinking that a real doctor places those things on his head and nose? his nose had a SCRATCH AND,for cause and effect he chooses to cover that itty bitty SCRATCH with of all things a knuckle band aid.

His head had places just a wittle bit bigger than the scab on his nose and, for the sake of cause and effect, he covers them with knuckle bandages. as someone has mentioned before, head wounds are dressed but, not with knuckle band aids. this ass was really playing it up for the sake of cause and effect wasn’t he. if ShelLie had a hand in that masquerade, she certainly won’t make it as a CNA let alone a RN. if she did this, she is a disgrace to us all, who are cna’s because, we take pride in what we do.

BTW, Fogen’s head didn’t even need a dressing of any kind that night so, why would he have them on the next day for his video debut and, only for cause and effect.

I will admit, somethings like last week’s courtroom drama astounded me. But nothing, absolutely NOTHING prepared me for the first time I saw GZ dressed up like a clown – I mean GZ with the bandages on my head. My eyes just stared, my jaw dropped to the floor and I didn’t know what to think. I mean WTH, was it some kind of a joke? It looked like something I would see if my 3-year-old granddaughter found the Band-Aid box. I never saw anything more ridiculous. I thought WTH? Who would do that?

And if someone REALLY had REAL injuries under those Band-Aids, I would think they would want the INJURIES to show – they would WANT people to see how BADLY injured he was. Why would he want to cover them up?

They don’t realize how stupid they look because they reinforce each other. Shellie must have said to him, “Oh that terrible thug nearly killed poor widdo you, let’s put some bandages on your boo boos” and Fogen would be describing in his soft creepydeepy voice how he thought he was gonna die, and Shellie’d minister to his wounds and blah blah. They all reinforce each other and so they don’t realize how puerile, faked-up and foolish they appear to real grown-ups.

Those knuckle bandaids are so huge relative to the minor scalp wounds that they demonstrate an awareness that the wounds are so insignificant that they must be made to appear much more serious than they really are by covering them up with a large bandaid.

In effect, they are yet another admission of guilt.

The nurse at the clinic told him to clean them with soap and water and leave them uncovered to promote healing.

I bet the officers or whoever taped the reenactment busted a gut when they saw him all done up like that. If it weren’t for the fact that those maxipads can’t cover up the taking of a young man’s life, it would be hilariously funny. Back then, under the circumstances though, it was the most ridiculous display of ridiculousness I’d ever seen. Like a 3rd grader trying to get out of taking a test at school by saying he was sick or something.

mmp. STAYFREE pads are pricy! Those are more likely Walmart Equate regular thin liners. Or since they like to live high on the hog in gated “up scale” (lol) communities; maybe shelLie whipped out a Target brand UP&UP mini pad. They’re a little pricier than Walmart. . But there’s no way shelLIE would epoxy a STAYFREE on Fogen’s
cro magnon dome!

Why would Taaffe be a witness at all? he saw nothing. He was not there. All he has is hearsay, stories he was maybe told by GZ. That’s not admissible evidence. At the very most he may be asked about his involvement in NW, if how that was setup becomes an issue (which is most likely won’t).

Ay2z….Actually the term is “on the wagon” for not drinking….it’s origins are the water wagons that would go around to fill the horse troughs in town….and the drunks would climb on….hangover included….for a ride home….

It’s my understanding that Francis had quit NW by the time Fogen shot Trayvon, and that is why the “we” statement bothered me. Why would he not distance himself from this shooting? For his 15 minutes of fame? Or did he know more?

Ah, it’s actually in an NBC interview. And a bit different than I remembered – a little more neutral – but still a bit odd in that Francis speaks of “we.” I noticed at the time it seemed odd that he would insert himself iinto the situation or speak in the plural. Shouldn’t he say, ” I wish Fogen could bring that boy back?”

I assume he mentioned bushes to suggest he was ambushed. Problem is he went from walking back to his truck moving in one direction, to somehow, even in his own story, face to face with Trayvon. If he was referencing the shrubs around the townhouses the distance he would have had to cover to get to the T wouldnt surprise anyone. Since he dropped with bush story we can assume he realized it didnt fly. Just like the being dropped at the T. You can tell in his reenactment that hes got some problems, especially when he stared off to where they actually found the body. I love that scene.

@Shannon. Yep. LLMPapa posted at least 8 reasons why there would by no SYG immunity hearing, and he did so long before this past Tuesday. It appears that only the Zidiots are behind in knowing the evidence. But then, they’re so focused on race, DeeDee, attorney Crump and pro justice for Trayvon bloggers, that they don’t have time to KNOW evidence.

“And he got an top of me somewhere around here, …and…uh…” long pause as he composes the next riff–

I just hope the jury doesn’t take the same attitude as the jury in the case of Mr. Horn of Texas, who ran outside with his gun after the 911 dispatcher told him 15 times in 8 minutes, “Do not leave your house.” You hear him on the 911 call leaving the house seconds after the 15th time, yells “You’re dead!” and shoots 2 burglars, and later pled self-defense and was EXONERATED by the jury. I don’t know what their attitude was, but a jury can do it like that, legality aside. (It was amsterdam who linked to that in an earlier post)

Cercando Luce~ DON’T mention that man’s name! It STILL raises my blood pressure!! But one thing you got wrong; he NEVER WENT TO TRIAL. The Grand Jury no-billed him under the Castle Doctrine, not self-defense per se. He shot one in the back and winged the other. They were actively robbing a neighbor’s house. Horn called 911 and was told repeatedly to NOT confront the thieves. He did anyway. BUT his lawyers twisted it to say that Horn was protecting a neighbors property, hence the Castle Doctrine applies, etc… ad nauseum. Public perception was further skewed by the fact that these 2 were illegal immigrants with a criminal record. All I wanted was for this murderer to GET A TRIAL but the morons of the Grand Jury no-billed him, while the local idiots praised him for his “courage” in stopping the menace of illegal immigration. Ugh. But Karma has done her job; he’s a broke and broken man now. The costs both financial and emotional have taken their toll. I would rather he had gone to jail, but you have to accept that sometimes karma will be the best you can get.

The defendant doesn’t realize that people are NOT stupid! If his head were being bashed as he first claimed on the sidewalk…where is the forensic evidence to back that BS claim? He could not even remember where everything took place…..and please….don’e even get me started on the bushes theory…..Trayvon was shot on the grass not the concrete so what part of his bullshit story does he expect the jury to believe…..even a bull wouldn’t want to be near his sorry butt!!!!

Thanks for the correction, cielo– unlike a lawyer or even a law student, I commented without full comprehension of the case. I listened to the 911 call and once again heard a caller getting himself worked up to the point of murdering someone. (I would make a bad dispatcher, too)

Cercando Luce- no problem. That case happened @ 15 miles from where I was living. Unfortunately there wasn’t much I could but voice my frustration to my local reps and the paper’s comment section. I would have preferred there had been a trial. But too many people were viewing Horn as a ” hero protecting his neighbors”. Y’know, the neighbors were not too happy to be pushed into a controversy like that. They said they had insurance. They never thanked him publicly, either. I thought that spoke volumes.

Why did George mention the bushes? Why did he say Trayvon came out from the bushes?

How could ANYONE hide in those bushes around the townhouses? ……especially someone as tall as Trayvon!

Now, we know that there were bushes between Witness 11’s and Witness 6’s townhouses. The ONLY area that all the eye witnesses put George and Trayvon ON THE GROUND as they “wrestled” is THIS area AND the area going from there straight out to the sidewalk. ( All points @55+ south of the T).

I think that this is the only area the two of them were on the ground.

I feel that Trayvon and George were STILL on their feet up to this location. George probably had a grip somewhere on the back of Trayvon’s hooded sweatshirt and George was probably pulled along as Trayvon attempted to escape south. This is the stumbling and staggering that George was doing as a result of being pulled along.

What happened then at the bushes between those two townhouses? I think something occurred to cause George to go down into the bushes, and Trayvon simultaneously to go down on the grass (because George held on to Trayvon’s sweatshirt.)

For some reason George refers to bushes.

Because it would be impossible for a person as tall as Trayvon to hide in the low bushes at the crime scene, we have to look for another reason that “bushes” were on George’s mind.

There was no such a thing about the bushes…how could Trayvon jump him from the bushes when his supporters claim that he was sucker punched by Trayvon? They lie they lie they lie….just like his wife….She lie….She lie She lie…..that’s what her name says LOL

That punch at the T that George tells about NEVER occurred. In addition the two of them were on their feet until they fell down at the bushes between W11’s and 6’s townhouses.

At that point, the two of them were just wrestling according to witnesses.

The two of them were not on the ground long enough for punches, slamming and smothering to have occurred.

Witness 6: So, when they were wrestling, when I said, “Cut it out” and before I turned to go inside, they moved up onto the sidewalk, and they’re no longer laying this way, they were this way at that point. So, they had wrestled to that point.

Curious and casual way to react to a life and death struggle with one person raining down punches to the face of the other MMA style and then bashing the back of the victim’s head against the sidewalk.

Strange that he had the story backwards from the defendant’s description of the sidewalk position as moved onto the sidewalk’, not off, the sidewalk. A detail backwards? To help someone by making the sidewalk position and shooting position, the same?

Wasn’t it this witness who also said to the killer (first thing after the shooter said he shot the guy), ‘what did you use, a 9 or 45? And wasn’t this the same witness who later commented that he never heard a gunshot before, and would ask a detail like this? Makes no sense to me.

If TM had both hands on Fogen nose and mouth, or head, knees pined on either side, and Fogen had his hands on TMs wrists it defied logic and physics that they could also move in those positions. Unless they were in ice. Everyone saw wrestling so thats probably all it was. But of course Fogen never admits to it.

GZ does admit to “wrestling.” He said that to Serino just after Singleton’s interview. That in fact, I caught that yesterday as I was listening again to his statements. Of course, it contradicts his wiggling and shimmy to the concrete, but since when has GZ’s story been consistent?

How will George explain those simple scratches on his forehead, T_V. Those are actually very incriminating as far as disproving George’s story. Those scratches on his forehead, in fact, might be the most important injuries George has because he will not be able to explain them.

I felt after a few comments Crump made during that press event he and MOM recently spoke at that theres some evidence we dont know about that made him awfully confident. Particularly when he said its going to be a long hot summer.

We still dont know what those Fogen texts were about. I wonder how it’ll change things, public opinion etc when they’re released? I figure its either a racial slur, or some other insensitive remark but not sure which?

The State has lots of evidence that has not been released to the public, neither explained. The clubhouse and M&I Bank videos were not released in discovery because they mean nothing to the prosecution — too bad O’Mara can’t figure them out.

But another thing too, is that I tend to think that Trayvon took a photo of GZ while he was in the car taunting him. There were several minutes between the time Trayvon’s call with DeeDee dropped just before he ran, and when they connected again at 7:12 p.m., that would have given him time to take photos, or even video.

@yahtc. Considering that the M&I Bank video shows a man at 6:38 p.m. who is or resembles Osterman, and that Trayvon hesitated walking away from the 7-Eleven and stood outside for a few minutes, it would not surprise me if he videoed the same car in the 7-Eleven parking lot or thereabouts with the driver staring at him.

Then there are GZ’s phone records that provide who called him, and who he called, although not the content of the phone calls. Text messages will be more revealing.

@Soulcatcher. The State turned over the clubhouse and M&I Bank videos to the defense. Those were released in discovery around June of last year. As far as the contents of Trayvon’s phone, the State has also released that to the defense, which is why, IMO, O’Mara decided not to petition the court for an immunity hearing.

@xena
About the contents of Trayvon’s phone. I listened very carefully to what was requested by the defense, and how the state responded to the requests concerning data on Trayvon’s phone.
The state gave defense 2 reports that listed some information found on Trayvon’s phone. They also gave all the raw data they were able to retrieve, to the defense.
During the hearing West was whining about not being able to read the data without special software. That defense team is an embarrasment. It is very obvious they haven’t hired a forensic digital data expert yet, and they are hoping to find out what was on that phone through the state’s forensic analysis of the data.

Bernie said “we’ve given them the data in the format they requested it, they can hire their own expert to analyze it.

Maybe one of you legal minds can explain what is work product and what is discovery that needs to be given to the defense.

@Yahtc. Thank you. The more I watch the videos of the hearings, it is plainly noted that O’Mara and West have no respect for Judge Nelson. Although, I do think their argumentative nature with Judge Nelson, and fault-finding nature with the prosecution, is to impress Zidiots and hopefully get them to donate more money.

They have come across as disrespectful from day one with a sneering and almost mocking tone.

Absolutely. The one frame in the video where O’Mara is arguing about not being able to depose Wintess 8 — watch Bernie. He slides down in his chair, probably to restrain himself from jumping up and slapping O’Mara beside his head. 🙂

Right! Like Tuesday in his effort to prevent Judge Nelson from questioning GZ, he gave a diatribe on what the court “might” do during or after trial. Judge Nelson put O’Mara in his place. He has no authority to tell the Judge what procedures she “might” follow.

Clearly, he was trying to take authority over Judge Nelson because if there was a lawful basis to prevent GZ from being questioned, he would have filed a response to the State’s motion setting forth lawful basis to deny the State’s motion.

Good picks, Xena. I like especially that you catch precisely the rare moment where O’Mara’s mask of politeness drops. At that specific: No! it feels to me the stubborn little boy surfaces. I virtually see him stamping his feet in anger he isn’t getting his way. This little scene also catches perfectly that he responds to preconceptions, not the real Nelson in front of him. Perfect catch. Now I have to go back and watch Bernie, he did in fact escape my attention which was centered on O’Mara’s act.

At that specific: No! it feels to me the stubborn little boy surfaces.

O’Mara has been totally disrespectful to Judge Nelson, IMO. At the last hearing, his diatribe on what the court “might” do was telling her how to do her job. Judge Nelson wasn’t having it. But West is a different animal — very argumentative.

Xena, you may be more perceptive in these matters. But I met a couple of master Machiavellians in my life, who know how to control people with polite surfaces. I have to admit I was occasionally fascinated by the act, once I started to research the dirty tricks used. I start to get fascinated by O’Mara’s acts too. Yes, he tries to challenge Nelson, and I am just as pleased as you that she stands tall. Nelson studied psychology before the studied law, I guess she knows the tricks. No doubt O’Mara never was as refreshingly direct as BDLR, he put a superficial layer of politeness and conformity over his sick content.

I think O’Mara is making a reasoned public pleading, with complex justification that involves public perception, threat to the prosecutor, threat to Crump, and notice to Nelson that he does not appreciate her games.

Why does he shift from threat to notice here? It was clearly a threat too. I must not accept your decisions.

and now the political perspective from a slightly elitist angle

cboldt Re: Writ of Certiorari (Crump Deposition)
« Reply #59 on: April 05, 2013, 02:57:16 PM »
I don’t have much faith that the court system does the right thing when the case is a political one. But, the courts of appeal are one step removed from public pressure, compared with the trial court, and I would not be surprised to find that Judge Nelson is deliberately tossing issues up for appeal. I’ve generally figured she’d do so when called on to render an opinion as to 776.032 immunity, finding that the evidence doesn’t admit a decision, and then tossing it to the jury

I discovered quite a bit of openly sexist talk about Nelson over in the CTH, isn’t this a more polite form of misogynistic talk? the image: The helpless woman would be too “timid/afraid” to decide on her own, she would “toss” it to the jury so she does not have to decide. Only a man would be able to stand up to “public pressure” or pressure from the wrong “political” camp.

Leander- I love your analysis. It could also be a way to belittle the judge. Also it could be another grasping at straws that Judge Nelson would allow such incompetence so that appeals could be necessary. Anything to keep that door open for GZ. But not this time. This assailed is NOT going to get away.

@LeaNder. Of course O’Mara and West look at Judge Nelson’s gender rather than the black robe.

O’Mara argues in circles — he can’t depose a witness unless he gets info from the State. The State doesn’t have the info. O’Mara needs to get the info from the source or the witness. O’Mara and West try to circumvent established procedures of the FBI and DOJ by wanting Judge Nelson to enter an order that they turn over info.

What I’ve heard coming from Zidiots is lack of understanding the discovery process.

I think the Zidiots lack the ability to understand any process at all. They’re just making up stories to tell themselves, thinking that that is the legal process. Apparently they’ve been unable to learn anything that happened after the dark ages.

They’re just making up stories to tell themselves, thinking that that is the legal process.

In my experience, uneducated folks think that if they can make another person look worst than they do, it means the judge will excuse their criminal violations. I’ve heard most, if not all of it, from a man justifying battery on the basis that his girlfriend cheated on him, to a husband not wanting to pay alimony on the basis that his wife left the milk out of the fridge after giving the children cereal in the mornings.

This is the exact dialogue I was looking for. This is exactly what I wanted to express. Fogen’s people are saying it isn’t about race and then they slap Trayvon and family with racial stereotypes. They say it isn’t about race but calls everyone who suspects that the course of events that occurred in this murder isn’t what the defendant claims it to be, they call them race hustlers. They express the doubts that people have as media infused racial bias. Yet they say there is no racism in this case.

You know guys, I find it awful strange that these Fogen die hard’s are still preaching about some jewelry, that they are insinuating was stolen by Trayvon. yet at the same time, they NEVER discuss the packages Fogen was mailing off after he murdered child. I sure would like to know if the state has any information as to what was in those packages and, who the recipient was on the other end.

I also find it strange that, they never seem to ask why Fogen was going around to some of the tenants asking them about their schedules as to when they were home and other things that to me, indicates that he was up to no good. you are NW and, you have no business to concern yourself with these tenants daily schedules as far as when they are home and, when they are not, unless you are up to no good

IMO Fogen was dealing in selling stolen goods out of the state of Florida and, yet these MORONIC supporters of his are spreading lies about some costume jewelry that Trayvon had. this was jewelry that had not even been reported as being stolen. these people are putting any and everything out in order to make Trayvon look like he was nothing but a thug, when the real thug here is Fogen.

They have even lied about Trayvon raping girls ages 8 and 9 years of age. these people ought to be ashamed of themselves for spreading lies about this kid. it hurts me to my heart to see this stuff and, I can imagine how it’s hurting his family as well.

no, it was Xena who pointed out that payment a very long time ago. she also has had this *b/c of all the robberies they need a security company* idea, and posted it on her page.. which I personally couldn’t believe gz was even smart enough to think up in the first place.

But I’ve recently changed my mind by listening to GZ’s interview w. serino. I now do not think gz is as stupid as he looks, I think he’s very devious and cunning and he could easily have masterminded that plan.

he’s not a stupid idiot. he’s a straight up manipulating con man. and he thought his con worked on day one when he told his story to the police. he didn’t start *forgetting* so much until the 29th. w serino. that’s when he may have started to worry if he was gonna get off scott free. he still thought he could talk the cops into making his story work, but he couldn’t keep just saying any ol thing… he had to let them help with a more reasonable sounding narrative… Trayvon couldn’t still be talking all that 70s gansta shit and holding his hands up like in some B cops and robbers movie.

I discovered the $135 transaction at the USPS in Lake Mary a long time ago, but it was Dave who discovered that is the exact amount for a new passport. I looked again and the purchase was made off ShelLIE’s account. Larger post offices do provide that service. It was on April 6, 2012. She and GZ were planning to flee the states like bats out of hell.

It was on April 6, 2012. She and GZ were planning to flee the states like bats out of hell.

That’s what I think too. I still think GZ is a flight risk. It is very likely he has double citizenship. Peru allows a Peruvian parent, living abroad, to have their child registered at a Peruvian embassy/consulate before their 18th birthday, for a dual citizenship.

For sure. He took off from Osterman’s on or about April 6th, the same day that ShelLIE made that transaction with the USPS.

It was also on April 6, 2012 that GZ’s civil attorney filed a document in the federal court reporting that the bankruptcy trustee in the Aames case submitted a check to GZ in July 2011 for a bit more than $18,000. GZ paid no costs neither fees from the money. His attorney had only been made aware of what happened through the bankruptcy trustee.

Then, GZ launched his beg site. At the time, the only money they had was $3,500 from Papa and Mama Zim. His beg site only brought in pennies. Had people made significant donations, there’s no doubt in my mind that GZ would have fled rather than driving to Jacksonville, FL.

It was after his arrest that the bulk of the donations was received. What did he and ShelLIE do? Lied about it to the court, and kept his valid passport hidden.

Thanks for this infor, amsterdam1234, because in one of the early hearings with Judge Lester, probably the second bond hearing, BDLR said something about the defendant’s second passport, and made a comment that they had not yet been able to find out about a Perusian passport. (words to that effect).

It’s been the better part of a year now, BDLR and JG should have an answer about that, one way or the other,

..Peru allows a Peruvian parent, living abroad, to have their child registered at a Peruvian embassy/consulate before their 18th birthday, for a dual citizenship.

I dont know if he was any more mad than any other racist I’ve seen crawl out of the caves over this case. They seem about equally capable of such angry vitriol. The REALFOGEN.com was no different when he was caught on audio with his guard down SO mad he was talking and cursing to himself out loud! His words and actions couldnt be more clear. Only his made up story paints a different picture of the obvious. And theres very little evidence to support those lies. I expect BDLR to shed that shit up. Especially after witnessing what he did to West.

Memory Lane; As post-time for the Kentucky Derby nears, just want to mention that the first ever female jockey to ride in the Derby was a woman named Diane CRUMP. That was in 1970 when Dust Commander won, and I was there — with $10 on DC, a long shot, but the smallest, cutest horse of the lot.

Had felt Benjamin Crump’s name seemed familiar these past months, and now realize why.

Frederick,
on a different case, what are the 5th Amendment rights of a witness?

In the baby shooting case in Florida, a City Commissioner got arrested, apparently for advising the suspect’s mother to not speak to police without a lawyer present. He was charged with obstructing an investigation. Is this legal? constitutional?

“on a different case, what are the 5th Amendment rights of a witness? In the baby shooting case in Florida, a City Commissioner got arrested, apparently for advising the suspect’s mother to not speak to police without a lawyer present. He was charged with obstructing an investigation. Is this legal? constitutional?”

A ‘witness’ is neither a ‘suspect’ nor in custody. The right 5th Amendment as interpreted by SCOTUS in In 1966 in in Miranda v. Arizona does, so far, not apply to a witness.

HOWEVER, if the witness in question thinks/suspects that by answering police question(s), he/she might incriminate him/herself, he/she may refuse to talk/answer police questions – with the exception of questions regarding name, address, social security number and age. If the witness is offered immunity, he/she must talk or go to jail.

Re: obstruction of justice

IMEO, advising someone not to talk to the police without an attorney present is perfectly legitimate. This is protected by at least the 1st Amendment. Arresting someone for doing that is on the face of it unconstitutional and a violation of civil right.

It is entrenched and binding case law that a person’s advice to another to invoke certain constitutional rights, where the advice given is honest and uncorrupt, should not as a matter of law sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice.

HOWEVER, advising a witness to exercise certain constitutional rights and privileges may be wrongful if accompanied by a corrupt motive to influence, impede, or otherwise obstruct the due administration of justice. See also United States v. Reeves, 61 M.J. 108.

In the case you reported, the CC (City Commissioner) (a) advised witnesses of their constitutional rights, (b) those witnesses are members of his constituent, (c) the CC has absolutely nothing to gain from the advice given, (d) has not ass to grind with law enforcement or otherwise done something else that might remotely suggest corruption or sinister motive. These are the basic elements of obstruction of justice, without which a case of ‘obstruction of justice’ cannot be made.

Pls. remember: the media is not usually comprehensive in their reporting. Maybe there is more to this case. but the facts as reported don’t come close to supporting the charges. As such, I fail to understand why his lawyer is even apologizing. That lawyer should be smelling blood in the water.

2. Murder 2 with a firearm carries a minimum penalty of 25 years in prison and a maximum of life. This being a particularly heinous second degree murder, the killer should get well above the minimum. If the killer ever gets out of prison he’ll be an old man when he does.

3. While Murder 1 carries a possible death sentence (which I’d like to see abolished anyway) that is usually reserved for more heinous murders than this. At most he would get life.

To me this murder was heinous. the defendant had all the instructions necessary to walk away and let Trayvon be. I do agree that Murder 1 is harder than Murder 2. My aunt was gunned down 30 years ago by someone she knew and her killer got a much lesser charge. With all of the lies the defendant has told and with all the evidence produced by himself and forensics I am very confident the defendant will get the prison sentence he deserves…..

I agree only in that a death-penalty hate-crime charge is still available on a federal level. I know you and Fred are against the death penalty. I am not. And I can think of no murder more heinous than Trayvon’s.

I personally think that since Corey’s charging, the State has come into ome damning GPS discovery and other assorted evidence that would support M1 .

But since jurors can be so leery of any potential death penalty at sentenciing, I think a jury might knock an M1 down to M2 no matter what.

As it stands, I think jurors will see premeditation in the stalking, drawing of the weapon, and positioning of the gun under the button and will feel quite comfortable delivering an M2 guilty with a recommendation of life. IMO, exactly the sentence this lying predator pig deserves.

Another argument against a charge of Murder 1 is that it would require a twelve person jury (as opposed to six for Murder 2) which would give the defense six more chances to seat a closet Klucker who would hold out against conviction no matter what the evidence. O’Mara’s best hope is a hung jury.

The accussed had at least 45 seconds of TRAYVON BEGGING FOR MERCY.
He had at least that long to know the police would be arriveing ay any mooment.
An yet he thought and pondered all this info an decided the best cource of action .
Was a hollow point to centre chest point blank almost.

Of course it was first degree he premeditated an even admited on Hannatiy his time was running out an counsiosness of guilt of the shame of arrest.
For detaining an innocent legal visitor made him execute this problem
TO SHUT HIM UP.

So he could rewrite histort to him being a hero fighting for his life.

Rather that the idiot thats always makeing nusance calls on Black People that are ppoitless.
He finally done it now didnt you here got hauled of to jail last night
For chaseing down a residents visiting kid at gun point an holding him against his will.

Yup idiot in jail no bail kidnapp unlawfull detention an GOD knows what other charges he is faceing.

His wife a mess a complete basket case.
No way was foggagge letting that rightous wrath fall on his head
So he murdered the only witness his victim am changed the script/

Only problem for him is he kept editting an adding an changeing the script evrey time he told it.
An had differnt versions for differnt audiences .
You cant do re writes in reality theres only one take.

Pretty much what I have been saying. Trayvon was a good kid. But even if he wasn’t a kid and he wasn’t ‘good,’ even in the hypothetical scenario that he was some sort of a cat burglar, none of this should have happened.

Fogen did it for the same reason that all supremacists try to down-trod others. They are losers, and can only gain self-esteem by vilifying someone else. “I can’t keep a job or support my family, but dang it, I’m not black!”

Fogen’s history reveals his perpetual failures (and lies). He wanted to prove (possibly to his family?) that he was not the loser he really was/is.

Another despicable thing is that his family has rallied behind him in support of the unbelievably horrific murder of Trayvon.

MMP, it’s just my opinion, of course, but if you were fogen’s dad – I don’t think he would have turned out this way. Of course, there’s only so much any parent can do, but I’ll bet if fogen was your kid, he would have long ago learned there were consequences to his actions, and he wold have thought long and hard before he ever got out of that car. Hell, it’s doubtful he would have ever called NEN, in the first place. IJS…

As for dufus racist Frank Taaffe, I think he was:
A) grandstanding for the media with a quote dredged up from Network.
B) superimposing his own mindset onto Fogen.
C) revealing that somewhere with confines of RTL there was a premeditated plan afoot to deal with the perceived punk problem.

BTW, I don’t believe neighborhood crime stats are in synch with the hyperbole Fogen and pals tried to generate. Like others on this board, I believe they were puffing things up to justify a security biz plan in the works.

I agree with your comment and, I also believe they wanted to rid their neighborhood of the AA who were living there. I honestly believe this was their agenda. what other reason would they feel that the apartments in that complex, was bringing down the value of their property? it’s plain and simple, they did not want AA living there.

BTW, I didn’t know that Robbie the Racist told that Fogen was watching Trayvon long before he called NEN. boy when he gets to the steel bar hotel, he is going to really be in for a rude awaking because, the real thugs are waiting for him with baited breath.

How ironic that apart from the nationwide economic downturn, it would be Fogen himself who would really bring property owners’ investments crashing around their knees, Not those AA tenants/buyers at all.

Even with the HOA settlement in place, many prospective condo buyers are passing over RTL because they don’t want to buy into the notoriety … or any possible further litigation from another direction.. People can be edgy on what’s going to come spilling out at trial.

@Rachael, I read that about Robbie the Racist over at HP and, it was mentioned in some of the comments of those who are supporting Tray and his family. I think it may have also been mentioned on facebook as well, by supporters of Trayvon.

@ kenteoth I hope NO ONE calls Joonyah to the stand. He needs to be ignored and silenced. His main objective is self promotion and a reoccurring commentary post on Faux News. Fogen is only a means to an end. And nothing more.

Yeah I can’t wait to get that to see that person on the stand……..his elevator stopped WAY shy of the top floor……does this person not know that what he has said will come back to haunt the person he mentored…..and don’t get me started on the person that hid the defendant in his house after the crime…..the prosecution will tear them to shreads!

The defense effort to demonize him and his family disgusts and infuriates me.

I agree. Please see what I just posted on what believe the purpose of the “all day evidentiary hearing” will be (posted in yesterday’s article comments just under the link to this article). This statement is the basic premise for my belief.

Hope to have some time to comment on this great article soon. Enjoy your weekend everyone.

I always think I’m first, then I type some big long comment and by the time I post it, I’m never first – so this time I decided to stake my spot THEN make my commentary.

Aside from the fact that GZ’s frame of mind is evident in the fact he is upset that the assholes and effing oons always get away as he goes after them, his whole story makes no sense long before he describes the “fight.”

Now I would like to think if I saw someone hurting a child or an old lady or even a dog, I’d call the police then get out and try to help. However, if someone didn’t look right to me, they put their hand in their waistband and were staring at me, I would call the police and there is no way in hell I’d get out of my vehicle, even if they told me too.

And even if I had a gun, why would I take a chance of putting myself in a position where I’d have to use it? I mean it is one thing if you are in a situation where you have to use it, but why would you purposely put yourself there?

Right from the start, nothing about his story makes sense, none of it is reasonable.

If he REALLY felt Trayvon looked suspicious, like he was up to no good, why the hell would he get out of his vehicle, EVEN if he was told to to get an address, which we know didn’t happen, but even IF he thought it did, why wouldn’t he say, “Are you crazy? This guy looks suspicious, like he’s on drugs, like he’s up to no good, and he’s checking me out!! – YOU guys get here and do something about it.” But the fact that he was sick of it, “they” were always getting away, and well – I may as well save my fingers, because y’all know what I mean.

My son is 245 and 6’5. He is 17 and very much frightened by unexpected night time events. Because of his size, however, he would have been treated hostile by authorities is someone of GZ’s size would have claimed self defense in a similar way. I have had the “Black man in America” speech with him on numerous occasions and get nervous when he goes out at night. We live in a strongly right-wing area, and he has to endure great ignorance from his classmates whom he refers to as just not knowing about Black people. I pray for him daily and hurt for Trayvon’s parents. My son just got his acceptance letter to college. I pray that he never faces a GZ in his life. He deserves to be trusted and respected until he proves to be otherwise. He wants to be a teacher and a coach. But above all, he wants to live a long life. How dare GZ decide that a young man only two weeks into his seventeenth year of life was a “suspect,” an “a**hole,” and a “f**kin c**n” who deserved to die. How dare he!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

@diary, I know what you mean and, at the same time I don’t see why this talk should even be necessary, especially in a country that proclaims to be the land of the free and the home of the brave. our Trayvon should be going to his senior prom and, looking forward to his graduation day. the same also applies to Jordan but, both of these kids had their lives so tragically taken from them.

They were on the verge of beginning another milestone in their short lived lives but, IMO hatred of their skin color by two different men and, (I use the word men very loosely when referring to these two) took their lives for no reason other than their skin color.

In the case of Fogen, you cannot follow someone by vehicle and then on foot, start a confrontation, then shoot and kill this person and then have the audacity to claim self defense. Fogen, you are telling and you have told nothing but lie after lie, trying to keep your ass out of prison. you are going down and soon you will be locked up in prison where you belong.

It’s a very distinct possibility that if RZ senior hadn’t intervened in Fogen’s past criminal acts, he would have NEVER came into this child’s life and, Trayvon would still be here with us. Justice for Trayvon, I would have been honored to have him as my own.

Mountainmanpat, Reminds me of the Bears player, Rosey Greer, who was on the Johnny Carson show. The guy was huge and Johnny stated that this Rosey knitted on the plane while flying because he was afraid to fly. Johnny asked him if anyone on the plane kidded him about knitting why he was flying. Rosey stood up next to Johnney and asked; Would you kid me? Carson said Hell No! Interesting Mountain Pat. Where in Montana are you located?

That’s perfect, Rachael. What you posted is exactly why not taking taking the stand won’t help him, even if he doesn’t get cross examined. Reasonable people are going to want some answers to the issues you just raised, and the only one who can give them is fogen.

I have encountered people, deep in gun culture, who not only assert a right to walk around armed and fervently believe in the wisdom of doing so, they also seem to recommend taking ‘law enforcement’ into their own hands as being more immediate and accurate than ‘waiting for the police.’

I see the prosecution putting Taaffee on the stand to draw out these sorts of statements that he has made publicly to indicate both intent and depravity. And Taaffee seems to be such a believer himself and will gladly and willingly go along with making the state’s case.

@Professor, I couldn’t agree with you more concerning your comment about how this defense has behaved. they have not only taken part in the demonizing of this victim and his family. they have imo encouraged it as well as participated in this and even more, with a racist internet blog site.

It’s really sad that Trayvon is a child murder victim and, that he is the only victim of child murder who has been so disrespected and, lied on as well. what these people are doing to this child and his family, is down right shameful and it also shows us just how racist some in this country really are. this goes for the defendant’s family as well as his attorneys. how can anybody with even a marginal amount of morals, support this murderer of a child?

This defense team have imo done some pretty underhanded things in this case that borders on being illegal. one thing that comes to mind is, they knew about the doxing of some people who have nothing to do with this case, as well as knowing about what was done to W9. what we are witnessing here is, the very worst of some in our justice system.

If the defendant has no defense for his criminal act, then let’s smear and demonize his deceased victim. after all, the victim can’t be here to tell his side of the events of that night. and, while we’re at it, let’s smear his family as well by telling the rest of the world just what poor parenting skills they have. let’s do all of this and, maybe we will win an acquittal for our LYING MURDERING CLIENT Fogan.

It’s a real sad fact to know that, we are living among some really sick people in this country. smdh

I SO agree with you. They do encourage it and it is disgraceful, disgusting and there are not enough adjectives to describe it.

It makes me so very angry because I honestly believe they actually are in a position to maybe not make it stop but speak out against it and ask for it to stop. Let them know that people behaving like total savages with no regard for human beings not only does not help their client, but it affiliates him with the VERY people he claims he is not one of.

They ARE in a position to do that.

Yet instead they choose to fan the flames and encourage this behavior.

By attempting to exploit racial stereotypes and race-driven fear of Black males in a high publicity case, Mark O’Mara, Don West and everyone who supports what they do give us all a bad name.”

@Ladyst.claire:

You couldn’t have said it better! BRAVO! The strategy all along was to exploit the racisf steroetypes of black males. You know the one that we are all familiar with: Black males are criminally inclined thugs, prone to violence. They only have to exploit this fear of the black male and they will have the racist on their side every time! Demonizing Trayvon and attacking his family like they were animals, sub-humans-incapable of feeling pain, or sadness. Like black people are incapable of loving their children. What kind of people are these anyway that inhabit this earth? SMH. Even the Boston Bombers have not been as vilified as Trayvon. The parents parenting skills have not been questioned, and their skin color isn’t even given a second thought because they are white.

I pray and hope that TM and his poor mom and dad will receive justice and Fogen, his family and their flunkies receive their comeuppance come this summer. Tray deserved better than this from America.