Getting back to the original subject...I heard that last year (or maybe two years ago now) the DNRE opened a turkey season on the island...but that maybe it was just a fluke accident because it hasn't happened again since.

yeah well.. Thin the turkeys and by doing that, thin the coyotes giving the deer a major break in fawn survival.

Most don't understand the food chain here. I seriously doubt that turkeys were ever indigenous to BBI, even when "native" to Michigan. Never in the numbers now with DNR "sport hunting" reintroduction, for profit, obviously.

Turkeys are somewhere between flying 'coons and pigs with wings: scroungers and scavengers (BOTH).

What the DNR WON'T tell you is this: That turkeys carry bacteria that wll sicken deer if fed in the same deer feeding area ( which is typical if you feed deer). AND. Turkeys will plunder the nests/chick of groundnfeeding game birds ie Grouse, woodcock and numerous songbirds like whipporwilll.

And you wonder WTF The DNR is into? Selling licenses, is what. All of a sudden there is some deer baiting ban. So what makes the most $$$? Deer or turkeys? Turkeys make the deer sick.Turkeys destroy upland game birds, and more.

Thanks DNR for your money grubbing "introduce this crap" make some money wisdom. And people buy into it as "sport".

Turkeys are flying garbage that will totally FU the natural econosystems. Do me a favor and kill 100 of them. Around home, they go to the fertilizer ditch in a front end loader. The farmers don't want the contamination of feed.

FY DNR. We have been there for 20 years. The only good turkey is one turning to fertilizer in a ditch .

Since you asked: Turkeys are flying garbage wrapped in skin and feathers.

One upon a time...

We had a turkey population explosion: several hundred per section of land. Grouse (pats) became non existent as did many of the ground nesting song birds since their nests were plundered by the GRSF birds. Woodlots looked like hogs had gone through them. Many not so common wildflowers also vanished. Farmers had them handing around silos, scrounging around, crapping all over the place, spreading disease. The DNR refused to do anything about it or assume any responsibility whatsoever. So, out of frustration, they shot them on sight, by the hundreds. The 3-S management practice proved quite successful: Shoot, Shovel and Shut Up.

Meanwhile... The Coyote population also surged to out-of-control proportions since turkey poults make excellent 'yote puppy food since they are easy to catch, unable to fly. Coyotes will maintain their population according to the amount of food available. Unfortunately the coyotes, in massive packs, also trashed the deer herd by taking out the majority of newborn fawns. I suppose the upside was that during that period, The coyotes also kept the coons and possums heavily suppressed. The coyote hunters had record-harvest years for 3-4 years running. taking 50+ per section of land.

That has all since crashed: It was once common, in the spring, to see dozens of hen turkeys foraging around, each with 10-12 chicks trailing behind. No more. Now see 1-2 straggler-survivor hens with no surviving chicks. The coons are up and pillage the turkey nests. Coyote population is a fraction. We are seeing more pats again. The does are raising twins, again.

With all that going on, the locals wised up and quit looking at Turkeys as some unique sport bird, but as a nuisance-menace that they really are. 3S management continues on the stragglers.

There is a direct connection between turkeys and deer that most aren't aware of, nor will the DNR tell you about, but something they are aware of "off the record". For that reason, was the underlying reason for the "deer baiting-feeding ban" over the last few years... now recinded with the turkey crash. It had nothing to do with chronic wasting disease as a reason, but direct transfer of intestinal parasites, carried by turkeys, and spread by their droppings.

This problem is critical in places where deer are being fed corn which both turkeys and deer eat. (like on BBI where the deer are supported by winter feeding). Not only can deer catch this parasite by eating contaminated corn, so can livestock, pets and humans can catch it as well. Step in turkey droppings is all it takes to bring it in the barn or house.

So you can see why farmers don't want turkeys scavanging corn/grain around their silos... Fences don't work. #4 shot does. For now, this problem seems to have been resolved and slowly but surely natural wildlife is starting to recover.

The DNR is famous of trying to manipulate wildlife and habitat to some advantage , (usually for profit) and it invariably blows up in their face... then total denial. It is a long list of import-faiures. Anyone remember the sichuan pheasant debacle? More coyote food. That program consumed millions of sportsmans $$$.

One final example of DNR lack of foresight.

Back in the 80's, the DNR promoted a prolific non native shrub as good for wildlife. Common name "Autumn Olive" (I believe native to Mongolia). This bush will grow to 30' tall, produces red berries that songbirds thrive on. The downside is that these bushes will grow on a rock and sprout up everywhere a bird excretes an undigested seed. Invasive is an understatement. The seedlings were free and we all planted them thinking the DNR was on to something good? NOT.

These bushes grow in open areas, in the shade, anywhere and everywhere. Anywhere that hasn't been tilled, is now so choked with AO's you can't walk through. Entire 4O ac fields have become 30' tall jungles of this stuff. The only way to remove them is to dig/rip them out by the roots or with a dozer... of course at the landowners time /expense.

I have spent the last 4 years reclaiming my own property and now down to spraying new ones when they pop up. it costs money. I need to send the DNR a bill. You think they will pay me for taking measures to correct their screw up? It would cost billions to restore all the acreage infested with these plants. They will never be totally eradicated. Unlike Turkeys where they are some checks and balances, we are stuck with Autumn Olives forever.

So... I am just a little skeptical of the DNR and their bright ideas, that mostly screw things up permanently and the expense of private land owners.

So... Thats what I REALLY think of turkeys. And why._________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

If you do shoot one and intend to eat it... Wear rubber gloves and a mask when you dress it, then change your clothes immediately afterward. (then spray the meat with clorox?)_________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

(edit) Actually Walmart Turkeys are sort of "growing on me". I know... I know... The parasite levels aren't what they outta be... but the toxins and hormones more than make up for that..._________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

Great - You had me worried!!! - Nothing like a good ole Walmart turkey where you can get fiber and preservatives prepackaged for you!!_________________47 years in a row driving 600 miles to get here!!!

This is the 2nd go around for turkeys on BBI. They were originally introduced years back, and became back yard chickens, because they were hand raised DNR turkeys. They disappeared quickly.

The 2nd introduction happened when Bill Westcott was supervisor. I'm sure he had no idea that they could be as bad as Conis says. They were wild turkeys trapped by netting them somewhere else in Michigan. They were released in two or three places on the island. Many have now become domesticated by feeding them. That concentrates them in a small area. If they were not fed, they would spread out and stay wild. Then the problems Conis mentions would be less. I suppose that if people feed the deer, then the turkeys come running too, and that is when problems crop up also.

I believe that people should not screw around with mother nature. Let the populations of wild animals be whatever it is. Let nature control the population. No feeding animals._________________mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."

I am not going to reiterate all the turkey-deer-coyote issues except to say it has all been in our face (locally) for 20 years, dealing with it... after the fact.

I put full blame on the DNR. They get these "ideas" about introducing plants and game and whoopsie... Turkeys were "re introduced" for one reason only: Sport hunting and revenue generation.

I doubt the DNR had any clue the turkeys would propagate into a population explosion, causing a coyote explosion to the peril of the fawns... or really considered parasite contamination of the deer by baiting/feeding. Just one big experiment that blew up in their face.

Now... they are totally aware of all the problems, sitting on their hands and shutting the hell up, as usual. zero guilt admitted. Nor would they ever admit guilt for the tsunami of class action lawsuits that would follow.

If the DNR and state wants to do something worthwhile, they will get their a*ses in gear and confront the looming asian carp problem. There have been enough studies and all point the same way. Those things get into the great lakes and there is no fixing it.

Friggin DNR. Do Nothing Right. Worthless fumbling bureaucracy.

I understand turkeys are down on BBI? You might think about assisting their demise?_________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

So, it appears, that people can do the wrong thing. Even if the Great Lakes are completely isolated from the Mississippi, I am a firm believer that someone will carry a few carp over and put them in the Great Lakes. Some asssholle will do it. It is only human nature at work and a matter of time._________________mwhite@wildblue.net
"The more nature you keep, the more nature you'll enjoy." and "It's not who is right, but what is right."

The great lakes are already contaminated with alien species carried in by bilge in the freighters. They can install all the electric barriers they want and they will only slow things down. Even inland lakes are being contaminated with bilge in fishing boats... eggs transported.

Ever hear of a duck? Ducks carry fish eggs and populate waters that are otherwise inaccessable to fish migration.

Just read about efforts to stretch fish barriers across marshy areas of watershed divides, where fish could potentially bridge a divide during periods of flooding. This doesn't really mitigate flying fish eggs, does it?

Maybe we can convince Monsanto to genetically engineer some cannibal asian carp, to deal with this issue? I'm sure the DNR would be all over this idea... after they do a 20 year study about it. (to come up with cooked data)

Off topic here.

Turkeys won't fly in from the mainland... so when they are gone, they are gone. No more turkey poult breakfast for coyote puppies, and coyote populations will decline proportionately... and fawn survival rate will fall back into a natural balance. My take on the BBI deer population is that without supplimental winter feeding, there would be far fewer.

I understand that the deer population on BBI had become inbred and stunted? An infusion of of new blood has somewhat corrected this? That would be on the right track as far as genetic manipulation; Import deer from the UP... Longer legged and different/better constitution to withstand longer winters. UP deer are an entirely different strain than downstate "agra deer", which are ""huskier", larger and thus require more food...which they have through the shorter winters. Make sense? Seems unlikely that UP deer would migrate across the ice. Why would they?_________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

There is a term which describes coyotes ability to regulate their population (litter size) according to available food supply. (will have to look it up). Wolves as well.

For this reason, "coyote management" is a standing joke. At best, they are kept thinned. Ranchers have shot them, poisoned them, trapped them to no avail. Unless they are 100% exterminated, they will exponentially repopulate to match food supply. I bring this up to frame what happens with turkeys taken out of the food chain, which constitutes supplemental coyote feeding.

Around these parts, winter coyote hunting is BIG sport and highly organized. Spotters are placed in the roads, surrounding entire sections, with walkie talkies. Hounds with radio trackers are used. They take them out by the dozens.

During the turkey population explosion, we had coyotes literally all over the place, running around peoples yards, in their garages, taking out pets. It wasn't safe to leave a small dog chained up (like a beagle). Come out in the morning to find a skeleton on a chain. Baited and shot on sight.

No doubt you have heard of the meat and large fish hook technique? not real humane but highly effective._________________Remember, half the people you know are below average.

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