***Harv- Hope I am correct in saying that you include the supernatural as part of god.***

I agree that supernaturalism is an aspect of belief in God, but it is not necessary to be a supernaturalist to believe in God.

***In spite of my belief in the supernatural, what Harvey calls god, it seems to me that scientifically grounded, moral secularists are much more ethical on the average than religious people. Afterall, religious people are ultimately behaving for purely selfish reasons- to please god and be saved.***

It depends on the individual. There are many old ladies who go to their local church who would run circles around any Plato's among us. However, I have met many, many morally-impaired religious people. And, I have met many, many strong morally grounded secularists. The issue, for me, isn't what happens on a college campus, the issue is what happens on main street. Secularism at a societal level can perhaps work under more stability on a college campus, but I am still of the opinion that a world of secular college grads would ultimately find that they have failed to meet the soulful needs of huamn society.