I honestly don't use any aiming system and never have. I just see the angle and hit it. I've always been good at reading the angles. I actually tried to use the Ghost ball method today and thought WTF !! This is too much hassle

Should i learn an aiming system whether Ghost ball or Contact to Contact ?

I read Mosconi used Contact to contact, if he needed an aiming system then i guess i should

bluewolf

11-23-2002, 06:27 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bigbro6060:</font><hr> I honestly don't use any aiming system and never have. I just see the angle and hit it. I've always been good at reading the angles. I actually tried to use the Ghost ball method today and thought WTF !! This is too much hassle

Should i learn an aiming system whether Ghost ball or Contact to Contact ?

I read Mosconi used Contact to contact, if he needed an aiming system then i guess i should <hr /></blockquote>

I use angles and try to compensate for deflection(if that is the right word, ww calls this throw) dont do ghost ball cuz i just aim what part of the ob I want to place the cb at. If pushed to define, I guess it is about the size of a dime or nickel, not the exact spot or contact point.

I think the best players play by feel but I am not there yet, still tending to use a lot of analysis. Guess wont have to do that so much once I get better.

blu

Chris Cass

11-23-2002, 10:57 PM

It's like this. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. As far as aiming systems go, learn everything you can about the game. Use whatever works and if your happy with your present skill level, don't do a thing. IMHO

Personally, I've always known a lot of different aiming systems however, I use contact point to pocket/facing. Also, an angle system of my own. Kicking and Banking systems I use quite a few. Depending on the shot.

Out of these 8 systems I know I use mostly Rote, Diamond, Parallel for kicking mainly. Now sometimes I'll look at the same shot with another system to double check myself.

You get out of this game what you give. If your wanting more then, you have to give more effort and like anything, know yourself, be realistic and do your homework. JAT

Regards,

C.C.

TonyM

11-24-2002, 01:04 AM

To answer this, you would need to be able to honestly answer the question of how well you use whatever method you use now.

And if your misses are caused by poor stroke, or poor aim.

Once you have an idea about this, then you can answer your own question.

Tony
-p.s., I sincerely doubt that Mosconi used the system he diagrams in his books....

CarolNYC

11-24-2002, 03:52 AM

Hi there, Having the ability to pocket balls is one thing, but being a 9-ball player, there is an aiming system where i can bring my cueball to ANY diamond I need to!Makes position ALOT easier-no more 100 foot away shots ha ha ha Contact Tony Robles-its the bomb!
Carol

11-24-2002, 06:07 AM

Patrick

11-24-2002, 06:15 AM

Only stupid people need aiming systems.

Patrick

11-24-2002, 07:38 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi there, Having the ability to pocket balls is one thing, but being a 9-ball player, there is an aiming system where i can bring my cueball to ANY diamond I need to!Makes position ALOT easier-no more 100 foot away shots ha ha ha Contact Tony Robles-its the bomb!
Carol <hr /></blockquote>

Seems to me, that using a diamond system to get position in 9-ball is overkill, imo. I use feel, and maybe this works so well, since I used to play billiards, and most good players should be able to visualize the path of the cb without a diamond system.

ww <hr /></blockquote>

How could you have been a Billiards player and NOT used some sort of Diamond system? Were you any good?

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote A.L.F:</font><hr>
Seems to me, that using a diamond system to get position in 9-ball is overkill, imo. I use feel, and maybe this works so well, since I used to play billiards, and most good players should be able to visualize the path of the cb without a diamond system.

ww <hr /></blockquote>

How could you have been a Billiards player and NOT used some sort of Diamond system? Were you any good? <hr /></blockquote>

i can do a 3 rail kick to make a legal hit and leave my opponent bad. does that count? &lt;G&gt;

blu

11-24-2002, 11:32 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote bluewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote A.L.F:</font><hr>
Seems to me, that using a diamond system to get position in 9-ball is overkill, imo. I use feel, and maybe this works so well, since I used to play billiards, and most good players should be able to visualize the path of the cb without a diamond system.

ww <hr /></blockquote>

How could you have been a Billiards player and NOT used some sort of Diamond system? Were you any good? <hr /></blockquote>

i can do a 3 rail kick to make a legal hit and leave my opponent bad. does that count? &lt;G&gt;

blu <hr /></blockquote>

For you? No.

11-24-2002, 11:33 AM

11-24-2002, 12:04 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote A.L.F:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> Seems to me, that using a diamond system to get position in 9-ball is overkill, imo. I use feel, and maybe this works so well, since I used to play billiards, and most good players should be able to visualize the path of the cb without a diamond system.

ww <hr /></blockquote>

How could you have been a Billiards player and NOT used some sort of Diamond system? Were you any good? <hr /></blockquote>

ALF,

I learned the diamond system back in 1967 from a book named "Billards, as it should be played" by Willie Hoppe.
Presently, I would use the diamond system for kick shots,
as due most pros in tough situations. You can watch the pros usually their extended time-out to use the diamond system on difficult kick shots, and sometimes even on a shot to get position. What I am saying is, it is too tedious for anyone to use the diamond system on the majority of shots to get shape. If this is what Carol does, she is creating way too much extra work for herself, and I doubt that even Tony Robles, would admit to counting diamonds on the majority of his shots greater than one rail. Anyone who tells you that using the diamond system constantly during the course of a 9-ball match is imo doing things the hard way.

ww

<hr /></blockquote>

O.K.,but are U any good?

Stretch

11-24-2002, 12:55 PM

IMO all the "systems" are good and have thier place. The thing of it is that they are a training aid and as such make a great starting point from which you develope a feel for the shot. Regardless of the system it's important that you do all your thinking standing up! When the proper line has been chosen and you've committed to the shot. Just do it. St

CarolNYC

11-24-2002, 03:51 PM

Yo Whitewolf,
I dont care if you put a piece of chalk,a penny or point to a diamond with my cueball surrounded by balls-I guarantee you I will hit that spot with the aiming system I was taught by Tony and if you think Im going to tell you what it is,you got another thing coming to you pal-How come you and your wife ALwaYS overread and misinterpret writings-whats your problem-and friggin hooray for her 3 rail kick-try kicking one rail! Jesus Christ!
Once again, I'd rather not be associated with you or your "SYBIL" wife!So dont respond or even mention my name!
Or Tony's,for that matter-if you dont know him,then shut up!
Carol

beerwolf

11-24-2002, 04:26 PM

You got it, Carol. They give us wolves a bad name. See ya at VF, if not sooner. I was hoping to see you at Hagerstown but I couldn't get there until Sunday so I don't even know who was there Sat.
BW

bluewolf

11-24-2002, 05:29 PM

why doesn't a three rail kick shot to make a legal hit count for me. comon alf, i can do some things ok. it is just the other stuff that is the problem &lt;g&gt;

i was doing kick shots before i knew what it was. all i knew was it was this fun shot off the rail behind the opponents ball to hit mine in.

blu

bigbro6060

11-24-2002, 05:37 PM

From Capelle's book, i found out i do use an aiming system!

'The Feel method' /ccboard/images/graemlins/smile.gif

the only shots which i can't seem to 'see ' the shot that well and need some kind of aiming system are ones like this one

START(
%Og8X7%Pi8U2%WE3Z9%Xf2X9

)END

where the cueball is close to the object ball and the pocket is far and there's a decent sized angle

11-24-2002, 05:58 PM

Chris Cass

11-24-2002, 07:13 PM

WW,

The Diamond System is the first system every pool player learns. Regardless if they know it or not. It's a one rail kick or bank, a 3 rail kick or so on. They along with the pros don't physically count diamonds or do the math. They know as you do by judgement and sight.

Once, you apply english to the ball the system is modified. The Diamond System as other systems are used for a basis to work with. On difficult kicks some might check the diamonds out and then let the feel take over. IMO On most kicks for me, I use the Parallel System and rely on that over the Mirror System. Some use the Spot on the Wall System like Jimmy Reid. I say what ever works.

C.C.

CarolNYC

11-24-2002, 10:29 PM

"this is what Carol does, she is creating way too much extra work for herself, and I doubt that even Tony Robles, would admit to counting diamonds on the majority of his shots greater than one rail. Anyone who tells you that using the diamond system constantly during the course of a 9-ball match is imo doing things the hard way."Quoted by whitewolf-
Ha HA HA hA-Talk about blowing horns-your wife has more bullsh$t excuses from her left brain to her right foot that we've all had to listen to for the past 6 months,so give me a break-and yes,Im NO queen-your wife is the proud "FLAME=QUEEN" -and being that there "is a GOD",I'll wait for you two 'PEABRAINS to COME ON DOWN TO NY" ha ha ha ha -and you give canis lupus the worst name-you've humiliated the wolf! Enough said to you! Talk to whoever you want-listen to your wifes"woe is me tales"-I really dont give two sh$ts-but dont respond to me!
Carol

CarolNYC

11-25-2002, 03:37 AM

TAp-TAp_Tap-committing to it and executing and getting that cueball in your 'safezone!" hopefully within 30 seconds?ha ha ha
Happy Thanksgiving!
Carol

bluewolf

11-25-2002, 03:48 AM

Carol,

A week or so when you flamed me and then asked me to not respond to your posts and that you wanted no association with me, I respected that request. OTOH, you are still flaming me on this public forum.

If you do not like my posts, don't read them. This is a pool forum, not a forum to act out your personnal vendetta against me.

I really don't want a flame war and will continue to post what I think and to ignore inflammatory posts.

blu

Voodoo Daddy

11-25-2002, 04:46 AM

WW...I'm not gonna tell you what to say...who to like or anything like that. I will these words and its gonna be it. Show this woman some respect...like you wolves didnt show the last woman you got into it with. Even wolves know "You dont hunt what you CANT kill"! Just something to think about.....

CarolNYC

11-25-2002, 05:13 AM

Hey Lupus,
When you PM'ed accepting my request,I appreciated that,and for your information, I never read your posts-I get PM'ed by others when you mention FRANS name in almost all of them-so enough said-you and WW seem to take things out of context and start confrontation-I particularly do not care for either one of you or what you say or do-just dont mention my name,Frans,Tonys and I will ALWAYS back up people with knowledge-I respect everyone on this board,so just keep talking to whoever you want-makes no matter to me,just leave me out of it and dont dare question any professional,teacher or experienced players knowledge-especially the ones I know! Thats all!
Have a good day!
Carol

Fred Agnir

11-25-2002, 08:48 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote whitewolf:</font><hr> I learned the diamond system back in 1967 from a book named "Billards, as it should be played" by Willie Hoppe.... If this is what Carol does, she is creating way too much extra work for herself, and I doubt that even Tony Robles, would admit to counting diamonds on the majority of his shots greater than one rail. <hr /></blockquote>
"A diamond system" is different then "the diamond system." It reads like you're talking about the "Corner-5" system. That's just one of a dozen ways or more to use the diamonds. Whatever the case, I don't presume to think that just because one uses any diamond system, that they claim to use it on "the majority of shots."

If you're using rails, and a system helps, use a system. Tedious may become instinct, but one will never get to that point of feel without commitment to the system. Should we advise against that commitment? I don't think so.

Fred

9 Ball Girl

11-25-2002, 03:36 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote CarolNYC:</font><hr> Hi there, Having the ability to pocket balls is one thing, but being a 9-ball player, there is an aiming system where i can bring my cueball to ANY diamond I need to!Makes position ALOT easier-no more 100 foot away shots ha ha ha Contact Tony Robles-its the bomb!
Carol <hr /></blockquote>

Ain't that the truth! I sent my friend to Tony for lessons and he was happier than a Pig in $hit after learning the system. He's even giving me one of his cues just for sending him to Tony. It is da bomb!

Wendy~~a friend and student of TR and I've seen Carol do it too! /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

11-25-2002, 03:56 PM

I don't use an aiming system ether, however I practice both the contact and ghost methods a little each time I have a practice session. Every now and then I come up "blind" on a shot. Sometimes it's because of pressure and sometimes its just being tired. It is good to have something to fall back on that can be "automatic"'. Don't forget that Mosconi's game was 14.1 and the table management for that game is quite different that that of 9 Ball.

bluewolf

11-25-2002, 05:21 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Chris Cass:</font><hr> WW,

The Diamond System is the first system every pool player learns. Regardless if they know it or not. It's a one rail kick or bank, a 3 rail kick or so on. They along with the pros don't physically count diamonds or do the math. They know as you do by judgement and sight.

Once, you apply english to the ball the system is modified. The Diamond System as other systems are used for a basis to work with. On difficult kicks some might check the diamonds out and then let the feel take over. IMO On most kicks for me, I use the Parallel System and rely on that over the Mirror System. Some use the Spot on the Wall System like Jimmy Reid. I say what ever works.

C.C. <hr /></blockquote>

Chris,

I am not sure if this is what you mean. When I have to do a two or three rail kick, I have to use the cue to draw a line to where the cb has to hit the rail to hit the ob, then i 'draw' another line to where it has to hit that rail, then figure out where it has to hit the third rail' I am looking at the diamonds for hints, like an inch in front of the diamond or right on the diamond or so forth. This works okay for me and when I miss, it is usually because I picked the wrong ball speed.

I havent played nine ball in competition so can only relate to what I would do in 8 ball, where there are lots of opportunities to play safeties.

ps what is the parallel system? where can I learn about all these different systems. ww plays by feel but i am not as experienced, so still need to use systems.

blu

bluewolf

11-25-2002, 05:30 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> WW...I'm not gonna tell you what to say...who to like or anything like that. I will these words and its gonna be it. Show this woman some respect...like you wolves didnt show the last woman you got into it with. Even wolves know "You dont hunt what you CANT kill"! Just something to think about..... <hr /></blockquote>

Voodoo Daddy,

You were the first person on this forum who showed me a little kindness a pvt messaged me offering your help.

I hold no grudges against any body here. As much as i would like to take back things that I said before, I cannot.

Also, WW and I are as different as night and day. It may not seem that way, but if you knew us you would realize it, I think.

I would explain this in pvt but don't want to get into this here because this is a pool forum.

Thanks for your knowlege,

blu

Voodoo Daddy

11-26-2002, 04:00 AM

I try to show kindness to anyone...and respect {especially for women} when I can bw. Pool has been very good to me and I dont mind sharing my knowledge with those who want it. I did show you the kindness most of us here have. We are just people with a common interest...pool. Your man callin' Carol a peabrain is outta line...'nuff said!!

bluewolf

11-26-2002, 04:24 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Voodoo Daddy:</font><hr> I try to show kindness to anyone...and respect {especially for women} when I can bw. Pool has been very good to me and I dont mind sharing my knowledge with those who want it. I did show you the kindness most of us here have. We are just people with a common interest...pool. Your man callin' Carol a peabrain is outta line...'nuff said!! <hr /></blockquote>

I agree. i don't ever think it is nice to call people names. He got on there and stirred things up, like he likes to do and then I get the flak. I have made mistakes but I am remorsefull for my mistakes and have tried to be better. WW has no such remorse over past actions. Although we love each other and are married, we are not alike.

I just wish people would recognize the improvements I have tried to make (although I am not perfect and still make mistakes) and quit lumping me in with his actions. I just want to be treated as an individual, thaz all.

blu

Wally_in_Cincy

11-26-2002, 07:47 AM

xo xo /ccboard/images/graemlins/grin.gif

bluewolf

11-26-2002, 04:36 PM

Also, 2 people have tried to xplain the diamond system for banking and once for kicks but it was too fast for me to retain. I am sure it is a good system because I have heard master instructors say you cant miss with it, but dont know how to do it in a simple way. You know how scott is always saying kiss.

I guess that is how I need to learn it.

blu

CarolNYC

11-26-2002, 06:44 PM

DITTO!
Carol

Gayle in MD

11-30-2002, 06:31 AM

Had I asked you to leave me alone, and not to respond to me, as Carol has, and you had posted the words in your original response to her, to me, It would definately make me angry. Then you follow up with this post? I know Carol, and she is a lovely person, and a terrific player. She has asked you to stay away from her on this board. Why not respect her wishes? /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif /ccboard/images/graemlins/confused.gif
Gayle in Md