Posted
by
simoniker
on Monday February 09, 2004 @02:34AM
from the salivation-and-expectation dept.

Thanks to Cube Europe for its article discussing forthcoming Nintendo products for 2004, including insight from Shigeru Miyamoto on his in-progress games. The information, sourced from Official Nintendo Magazine in the UK, "states that Metroid Prime 2, Geist, Pokemon Fire Red and Leaf Green will all be released in Europe before the end of the year", meaning a U.S. release for these games are also likely during 2004. Miyamoto is fairly guarded about his current projects, which also include Pikmin 2, and comments on the continued mystery behind the next Mario title: "With Mario 128 I have been challenging many unprecedented things, not found in existing video games... [and] prone to lose their freshness or to be imitated once they go public." Which Nintendo products are you most looking forward to this year?

I wonder if the translation was bad, or if Miyamoto was on a particularly cranky day - he usually comes off as much more genial than in that interview.

One has to assume Nintendo's got a bang-up E3 planned this year, though. Obviously the DS, but I'd guess new Mario and Zelda games announced at E3, as well as footage of Metroid Prime 2... probably good, considering the criticism they took for being underwhelming last E3.

You should reserve judgement on a game until you've seen more than just a couple of screenshots... From my understanding, this game will be a bit more like Messiah [gamerankings.com], in that you are infact a ghost of sorts, and the object of the game is to complete certain objectives by possesing the in game inhabitants.. the difference lies in the fact the in Geist, you have to scare the bejezus out of your potential flesh vessel before you can take them over...

Halo clone? I think not... except maybe that they're both from a first person perspective... but if that were case, wouldn't HL2 just be a Catacombs3D clone?

I know it's one of the games I'm looking for, and it's certainly not because it's a Halo clone (if it was, I prolly wouldn't even know it's name)

Despite the fact that another poster has suggested that Geist is not, let's suppose that it is. However, isn't Halo just a Quake clone or a Goldeneye clone or a Half-Life clone? Presuming Geist was in the same mold wouln't it also be a clone of one of these older games as opposed to a clone of Halo? I mean clearly Megaman X5 is a clone of Megaman X4, and not the original Megaman or even Megaman X *sarcasm*. Oh, and while we're at it, whoever's the most recent person to try and patten

I think the interview transcript probably had a run in with babelfish.... or either that, Miyamoto knows a strain of Engrish. Anyone who has been to Japan will know that English enjoys a position as a status symbol... and people will throw grammar to the wayside just to be able to use it... in whatever form they can.

I wish Nintendo would recapture some of that old magic and do Space World again this year. For you kids, Nintendo used to have it's own trade show where Nintendo and third parties showed of their new games.

As mentioned in the comments, Nintendo's E3's have been rather underwhelming, but they have enough stuff to do a proper SW this year. However, I think the era of Nintendo having it's own little circle jerk (even a fun one) is over.

Don't get me wrong, I'm drooling over a myriad of things scheduled and rumored for this year, most defintely including Prime 2, Mario, Pikmin 2, Kingdom Hearts: Chain of Memories, and some others.

I'm most looking forward to Mario 128... but I don't know if it's coming out this year! I understand if he doesn't want to give up gameplay details, but I would like to have a sense of at least the order of magnitude regarding the release date.

[we won't talk about the games at all because the ideas are] "prone to lose their freshness or to be imitated once they go public"

the old standby for Miyamoto/Nintendo. Let's just hope it's not another Mario Sunshine. They said the same thing about that, relating to the water pack idea. I really enjoy that game, but the mystery was more exciting than the reality, which should never be allowed to happen with video games.

I don't get your argument, man. They are not saying anything about Mario 128, and you're critiziing them. They did mention hints about Sunshine, and that was a bad idea because it took away from the surprise/mystery of the idea. What exactly should they do?

They are saying something about Mario 128. They are saying that it contains ideas which are so incredibly new and inventive that they're afraid of being ripped off if they actually tell us what these ideas are. That's saying a lot. And what's worse is it's very vague so people will start creating their own theories of what the great idea is.. when the game comes out it will inevitably not be what most people are expecting because everyone has a different idea of a perfect game. And unless it's a masterp

I wish people would stop complaining about Mario Sunshine, it is actually a great game - better than Mario 64 in my opinion, and very unfairly treated by critics who were expecting some revolutionary step forward from Mario 64. Where was there to go? Nobody really complained that there are a half dozen 2D Marios that all have you doing roughly the same thing, and yet when we get the first sequel to a 3D Mario, they were suddenly expecting something never seen before?

Anyway the water pack idea was brilliant, it solved one of the 2 problems with 3D platformers, that being difficulty controlling the character in 3D (the other problem being camera control, which Sunshine also improved). The addition of the water pack allows characters the ability to hover for a slight moment to better position their character after a jump - something that is often both hard and frusting in all other 3D platformers. Playing any other 3D platformer after Sunshine just leaves you feeling woefully unable to control your character.

The hover idea was present in Rayman and its sequels, and was used for the same purpose. Rayman is pretty old... I first played it on a Jaguar. Even if the Rayman series are not true 3d platformers, the idea is not unique to Sunshine.

Though it was intended as an adventure game, it had limited lives, levels of varying height, jumping puzzles and power-ups of sorts. And the shuba item let you glide to safety after jumps from high places!

Nobody really complained that there are a half dozen 2D Marios that all have you doing roughly the same thing

Oh but they did. Super Mario Bros. 2, which incidentally was perhaps the most innovative of the lot, and the people who actually give it a chance love it, has been heavily shunned. This seems to be a universal rule among games; the sequel either improves upon the original in every way and the original is forgotten (see: Streetfighter 2, Warcraft 2, Suikoden 2, and all that) or, more commonly, the

And SMB2j is universally lowly regarded; I haven't played it myself, but people who have claim that the level design was essentially just worse than SMB. In addition, the remade version of Doki Doki panic was later released in Japan as "Super Mario USA", and promptly outsold the Japanese SMB2.

It's also been thoroughly incorporated as a Mario game, as a fair number of enemies (sparkies, pokies, et c.) have returned throughout the years along with a lot of the music.

I'm not complaining about the game itself. I'm complaining about how they handled information about the game prior to it's release. However, with that said, if the game was truly great I wouldn't give a crap how they handled information before it's release, it would've been forgotten.It's very good, one of my favorites of this console generation, but not GREAT. So I tend to remember how a lot of people were pissed off when they finally got to play it. (personally I was too hyped up on the fact that I wa

I'm looking forward to The Wind Waker 2 (tentitive title). The Wind Waker was a blast, regardless of what the graphics looked like. I'm also looking forward to Mario 128. It's likely that both of these games won't be on store shelves until 2005 though.
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These guys are putting together a free 3D action/adventure game.

This might be because the next Zelda slated for release is the Four Swords for cube, which is a new Zelda designed around multiplayer. And if the reports that it won't require a GBA are true, that will go on my purchase list!

Otherwise, I fear the worst for our beloved Miyamoto. I also fear for the industry as a whole. Shigeru has this god like image. It's as if whatever he touches becomes a gold factory for Nintendo. He could sneeze on the most irrelevant Nintendo product and make it an instant success. I'm not even saying he stumbled onto a good idea and ran with it. He really is that good. This week a couple of articles about Eugine Jarvis appeared on slashdot. "Who is he?" "Why just about the greatest video game designer that ever lived....... well besides Miyamoto." What's funny, is that I don't even think that Myamoto even knows how to code. But for the past 22 years, he's done nothing short of being ABSOLUTELY BRILLIANT.

He is a god. I worship him. I have sacrificed my dignity (as I am approaching 30 years old with a Game Cube instead of a PS2 or XBox) for him. I know, I place him on a high pedestal. But look at all he has done.

Donkey Kong He made a little known playing card company, a bit player in the video game industry, a household name.

Super Mario Bros He single handedly brought us out of the 80's video game crash.

The Legend of Zelda He brought computer role playing games, a delicacy, enjoyed only by the nerdy elite, to "joe console".

StarFox He laid the groundwork for the 3D Poly revolution a generation early.

Super Mario 64 He confirmed that a 3D platform game, based off preexisting 2D elements can still be among the best games ever to be played.

I am a Miyamoto groupie. If I was good looking and female, I'd follow him around begging to have his baby.
But I'm scared...
This past generation of Miyamoto products leave something to be desired. They aren't bad. They aren't complete idol crushing abominations like Episodes I and II. They just aren't as good as they used to be, and I hope this isn't the beginning of a very depressing downward trend.
I really want more than Mario 128 to be good. I want it to be great. I'm running out of heroes.

Ok, sorry for comparing Miyamoto to George Lucas, that wasn't fair. He still has the ability to make a good game. I guess I'm just asking if he hast the ability to make a GREAT game. That game that parents have to drag their children away from the demonstration at wall mart kicking and screaming. I've played all the games mentioned. They are very good. But in reality, how much of the "goodness" is based on our respect to it's creator, buying the game because, after all "Hey It's Miyamoto, It will be great regardless". Since you asked...

Wind Walker Beautifully, and very faithfully to the series. Zelda's dungeon puzzles are a staple of the franchise, and this one doesn't fail in that respect. But what did they add to the experience? the replaced the ocarina with a different instrument, the horse with a boat, the firefly with a mischievous fairy. But nothing was "added".

Pikmin Brilliant. It was a great way of taking RTS elements and making them feel, well, very "Miyamoto--eske". Spielberg has a way of doing that with his movies. But , I have to ask myself, would the game have sold as well without the Miyamoto notoriety?

Luigi's Mansion I tried to explain this game to my friends.... "It's like Resident Evil, right.... but instead of traumatizing scary zombies, it's cute mario ghosts and a silly vacum cleaner. But it works, I swear!" I honestly had more fun running around the mansion shouting "Marrrio!". At, best, it was "kinda fun".

Sunshine Highly polished graphics, awesome physics engine, superb game balance, but then again so was 64. My favorite parts were the quick levels where they took away the FLUD device and put you in an abstract block maze. My knuckles still hurt thinking about it. But it was like 5 years after 64 came out. I wanted more. And don't you think that towards the end, the game felt a little (c'mon just a little bit) "rushed".

You have a good point. We can't always judge every new game by the greatness of the past. Maybe SMB was just one of those flukes in history that got everything right at the right time. But I want to think that that new "shock and awe" game is right around the corner, the one that makes all the heads turn, the one that turns the industry, an industry that I love, but don't like where it's headed, on it's head. I want the game that once again, levels the playing field, and makes the competition go "What have we been doing making, 30 FPS clones?" And if anyone can make that game, it's him.

Oh, man, I laughed so hard when I read the comparison between Luigi's Mansion and Resident Evil--because as messed up as it seems, I actually manage to consistently confuse the two when I think about them. I think I was playing through both of them at the same time or something. I'll be thinking about RE and remember some scary room, then remember that a big cartoon Luigi was in it.

"Luigi's Mansion I tried to explain this game to my friends.... "It's like Resident Evil, right.... but instead of traumatizing scary zombies, it's cute mario ghosts and a silly vacum cleaner. But it works, I swear!" I honestly had more fun running around the mansion shouting "Marrrio!". At, best, it was "kinda fun"."

Luigi's Mansion is a great game. Not a lot of people gave it a chance because of how simple it is. But on the fun factor it is awesome.

It was a great short story of a game, when people were expecting more of a novel to launch the system...still, it was a lot of fun, the graphics were very cool and distinctive, and the control scheme really made great use of the new features of the controller.

I do like how they made sure to have many "MAAAA-RIO" samples, so you could keep pressing the button and it wasn't so blatantly going to the same clip all the time. That plus the way his humming/whistling would be so much shakier when he got hurt...

I am not sure how this rumor got started, but I see it a lot. The original StarFox was created by Argonaut Games. Miyamoto might have consulted on it a little, but he deserves no real credit for making it the great game it was.

He did work on StarFox64, at least as an advisor. Technical attributes aside, I found it to be a much weaker game overall than the original, which was the reason I bought a SNES.

Starfox began as a short demo created by Argonaut games with the intention of simply showing of the power of the Super FX chip. However, it was never intended for release.

It was Miyamoto who saw promise in the game. He requested they work more on it, added the animal characters to the game (perhaps to add character to a simple polygon game?), and probably tweaked the controls (as he usually does whenever he working on something).

On top of this, the other post demonstrates that Japan had some involvement,

All of which shows that Miyamoto served as an advisor, nothing more, which is what I wrote. The level design, graphics, music, and enemy design were done by Argonaut, and they did an awesome job on it. NOJ involvement (which was important, I agree - it was published by Nintendo after all) is still not NOJ/Miyamoto creation.

The controls tweaking is just a guess on your part - I find it unlikely, since the controls in the N64 version were worse in many ways, but it is still just a guess. And the animal chara

I found it to be a much weaker game overall than the original, which was the reason I bought a SNES.

That's because Rare developed the second game. It took Nintendo a little while to realize how bad Rare was getting, especially since part of the team did so well with Goldeneye, and then proceeded to release the crap that was DK64.

Penny Arcade says it best [penny-arcade.com]. Note that I *liked* Starfox Adventures, but the comic definitely says what's wrong with DK64, and Donkey Kong Country 2, and Donkey Kong Country 3, an

yes it is a shame.. I spent a year and a half developing that and because they were dilly-dallying with real 3d roam-anywhere shooting it kind of changed the gameplay and they hadn't quite got 3d-roaming down yet (2 years before Mario 64). However Miyamoto told me recently that a lot of the 3d-roaming techniques we developed for starfox 2 were simply pulled into Mario 64. (in starfox 2 you "roamed" as a robot walker thing and it was primarily a 3d platformer on those levels)

I want to see what the ideas for new characters are. After all the ideas he has already come up with - especially some of his further out (but nevertheless popular) ideas, like Pikmin - I'm sure his future ideas are even better.

Why the hell Nintendo isn't doing more with the Pokemon franchise than a few spin off titles and RPG's for the Gameboy Advance?

I'm a game developer, and let me tell you, if I could develop a game for that franchise, I'd develop a full 3D action RPG. Imagine if you will, Hyrule Field in Zelda Ocarina of Time. Remember walking around that as Link? Well why not as Ash, with Pikachu following faithfully at your side? The Cube can handle much more detailed outdoor environments than Zelda could. With proper level design, one could explore fields, woods, towns, and caves, battling and capturing Pokemon. One possiblity would be to have a system whereby you target a Pokemon just as Link targetted his enemies, and press a button to toss a specific pokemon into battle against it. Battles could then progress in a style similar to Pokemon Stadium, or perhaps a realtime or timer-based battle system could be created. Pokemon attacks, timer ticks down, you have 10 seconds to make a selection or it recovers from it's previous attack and attacks again.

What is stopping them from doing this??? This would be exactly the sort of game which would put them back on the map. A game with the depth and fun of the RPG, but with the great graphics and awe inspiring environments of a third person game.

They already have all the characters modeled and animated. What are they waiting for? Mario Sunshine shows that they could model the sorts of towns that are featured throughout the Pokemon anime very well. They already have battle systems worked out, the strengths of the various attacks. It seems trivial for them to do, and would have been a perfect way to put the Gamecube on top way back when. I thought when they developed Pokemon Stadium that it was leading up to this but the N64 came and went. Could they really be that shortsighted that they can't see what a great game Pokemon would make in 3D? They need something major to give Pokemon new life, and more limited 2D RPG's ain't gonna do it.

Ninendo would have to be fools not to have this kind of title for the next system. They need something fresh and new. Something expansive and grand. Something that takes games to the next level of detail and interactivity. A world teeming with life and filled with combat and adventure would be perfect.

Sadly, you're asking much the same thing as "Why don't they bring back those little Troll dolls?" The opinion of the world community at large is that Pokemon was a fad, and it's had its time. Certainly, the game would attract some attention, but ultimately the returns in the U.S. and probably even Japan would more than likely not even warrant the game's creation. At best something like this will get previewed on tape in May and then put on the back-burner due to low interest, until it gets canned by E3 2

*was* a fad?It's certainly not the latest and greatest any more, but pokemon titles still consistently sell millions of copies. A few weeks ago in Japan they re-released the original titles (with a wireless networking adapter bundled) and those sold a million copies in only a few days.

Since Fire Emblem came out of Japan, I have wondered why Nintendo has limited these games to the gba only. God knows that a Gamecube version of FB would help it's lacking RPG department. It would take a lot of budget, but at leats it would sell great in Japan, enough to justify it traslation/marketing/distribution in America/Europe.

God...I'd buy like 4 copies. Out of gleeful insanity. One of the complaints I have with pretty much any complex handheld game is that the control is almost always a bit clumsy. I tiny screen means room for less stuff, few buttons mean annoyances in navigation. I don't fault the games, I think it's more of a limitation of medium.

Plus, would anybody complain about seeing those sweet fighting moves in 3D? I wouldn't. I mean, it's not important, of course. But give it to me. Now.

Indeed, FE seems like a more promising genre to push, as the public seems to latch more onto the swords-and-sorcery of Tolkien/Squaresoft, and SSB:M has catapulted them into the domain of the well-known.

Though, isn't FE developed by R&D1? (i.e. Inteligent Systems, i.e. the people who made the Metroid and Advance Wars series). They didn't really survive the transfer to 3D IIRC. (The one 3D game of theirs I can think of is Paper Mario, and that was in development for a good six years; godly polish whe

This is kind of a step down from what you are suggesting, but have you tried Pokemon Channel? It allows you to somewhat explore a Pokemon-filled world, and at the same time (????) watch TV with Pikachu. I agree 100% that a 3-D Pokemon adventure game such as you described would be absolutely fantastic, and a best-seller. But with Pokemon, Nintendo seems content to explore some extremely unique tangential ideas for a video game that have never been considered before. Pokemon Channel is probably the most passi

I think pokemon has the potential to become a large adventure game on the vein of zelda wind waker, I even remember that final fantasy VIIi did some pokemon homage by allowing you to "trap" guardians and spells and I remember thats what made the game fun, unfortunately nintendo has opted has opted for bringing a clone of the 8 bit pokemon each year and name it after every color and/or element/gem they can get in the office thesaurus, what a shame.

Other than that every other nintendo game is offering fails to bring any enthusiasm. sorry.

"unfortunately nintendo has opted has opted for bringing a clone of the 8 bit pokemon each year and name it after every color and/or element/gem they can get in the office thesaurus, what a shame. "

What's an even bigger shame, and pisses me off to no end, is that my 12 year old brother will buy both copies for his GBA SP (keep in mind he already has a regular GBA) simply because there will be a couple extra bits of data on there for a few different pokemon. Biggest waste of $30 EVER. At least when he bou

Starfox has always been one of my favorites. I remember back in the day when it was the first for SNES to have some kind of super FX chip, and it blew us away! And the Nintendo 64 one was even better. I'm super anxious for the next installment. That last Starfox didn't have anything to do with how the game is traditionally done, and it was pretty bland as a zelda rip-off.

I have to put my chips on Metroid Prime 2, even if it isn't a first party title exactly. Geist looks interesting too.

I don't think there will be a Wind Waker sequel this year (not that I don't want to be proved wrong on that conjecture) I mean, if you think back to fall of 2002 (8 months before Wind Waker 1) there was a lot of buzz about it already, details were scarce because, well this is nintendo we are talking about, but there was at least something floating around about it. Granted, for a sequel you won't need as much advanced hype since people already have a good idea of what a cel-shaded cube zelda is going to be like but I can't imagine Nintendo wouldn't be tossing out some images here and there to encourage healthy sales of the now dirt cheap gamecubes.

Personally, I'd like for Nintendo to do something completely unexpected. Sure, you could argue that the announcement of the DS was "unexpected" and in a way it was.

But at the same time, Nintendo doing seemingly idiotic things (read: most decisions they seem to have made in the past who knows how many years) is the only I think you can really expect from them these days. I'd like for them to get me excited about their products rather than having me scratch my head wondering just what the hell they were th

It's the only game my Wife will play with me. For Hell's Sake! We saw the first screenshots two years ago. Every time I get a new video game magazine she wants to know if ther is anything new about Mario Tennis!