Q: How can a person, who because of his parnasa must deal with people who are a bad influence, survive spiritually in this bad environment?

A: This is a very serious question. And my answer is not a complete answer. But you must fight back against this environment in two ways. Number one is that when you’re in their company you should be mivatel them. They don’t have to know it – you can treat them with respect and make your parnasa but in your head you should be thinking, “They smell bad, they really smell bad. They are like neveilos, like dead carcasses”. All of these people, you should realize, really are like dead people, like מתים. They’re putrefying. They’re carcasses. They have no sense. They’re lunatics.

I once had an experience – I had to visit a yeshiva bochur who was suffering from a mental illness. I went to an insane asylum and it was an experience. I was the only sane person in a huge room, surrounded by 300 idiots. In those days people didn’t wear beards like they do today. I was the only one in the room with a beard and they were all laughing at me because of my beard. For a moment I was taken aback. Then, I thought, “Wait. They’re all meshuga’im! I’m the sane one here!” Now, the outside world is full of meshugoyim as well. People in your office, in your business, on the street – all meshuga’im. Actually, they are worse than meshuga’im.

To call them meshuga’im is a limud zchus on them. They’re much worse than that. So that’s number one: be mivatel the world – have no respect. Now, don’t show it to them, but in your heart you should think that they’re afrah de’arah. Be mevatel them k’afra d’arah. That’s one thing you must do. They’re well-dressed, they’re polite and they’re educated and so on. But they’re nobodies. They’re like – I don’t want to say like what, but they’re the lowest of creatures. They’re dirty and they’re filthy disgusting. That’s number one.

The second thing is to counter their influence by filling your head as much as possible with Torah ideas. Not only learning Gemara – you have to learn seforim that enlighten your mind. It’s of utmost importance to learn seforim like Mesillas Yeshorim. You must learn the Rambam Hilchos Dei’os and Hilchos Teshuva, Sha’arei Teshuva d’Rabbeinu Yonah and Chovos Ha’levovos. Seforim like that put so much into your mind and the truth is, like the Rambam says, once your mind is full of these valid and important ideas, then the wrong ideas won’t have place to come in. But when there’s a vacuum in your head, your mind is empty, then the foolishness of the world comes into your head. The Rambam also says this with regards to immorality – ideas and thoughts of immorality can easily enter the mind when the mind is empty. But when your head is full of Torah ideas, it’s not so easy for wrong thoughts to enter your mind.

Or instead of being afraid of being influenced, become the influencer.
There is a halacha that salted chickens can be placed on one another although the blood is coming out, because since the chickens are expelling blood, they won’t take in any.

So too bruchnius. See them as a tzelem Elokim, and a part of Hashem’s Creation , and teach them about their role in the world. Sheva mitzvos bnei noach. Morality. Goodness and kindness. Etc.

I think its important to distinguish between people and attitudes. Pirkei avos says choviv haadam shnivra btzelem, and we should work to refine then as is our halachic obligation with sheva mitzvos bnei noach.

We can despise their beliefs but I don’t think it jives with chazal above and also “lo nitna HaTorah ela laasos sholom baolam,” to secretly despise everyone while acting polite. The Arabs tried that and the secret got out.

Plus it doesn’t seem to enhance any good middos by having this attitude, quite the opposite.

I think you’re misunderstanding Rabbi Millers advise.
What does it mean to respect someone?
What does it mean to engage someone?

Rabbi Miller isn’t saying not to act respectfully to them. On the contrary, he tells you to do just that. Not only is he advising you to act respectfully, he’s advising you to do your part to make sure that they genuinely think and believe that your actions to them are respectful in every way.

At the same time, he’s asking that you not join their fraternity.
You are different and you should know it. Not let them know it necessarily, but you should know it.

Now, the problem is that when you engage people on a daily basis their beliefs thoughts and aspirations often seep into your consciousness. As a Torah Jew, the long term effects can be devastating. So what can a Torah Jew do? (say it quickly, it rhymes!)

The answer is to look at them as if they don’t exist. Not to engage them any more than necessary. It doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be polite, on the contrary, its your job to make them feel comfortable. But just that. Going to workplace parties is obviously wrong. Hanging out with them outside of work is also wrong.

You have to know who you are, you have to know what you’re doing is correct, the rest of the world be damned. that’s where the asylum example comes into play.

The purpose of the sheva mitzvos bnei noach is not to refine the goyim, as inherently, they can not be refined (they come from gimmel klippos hatemeios). The purpose of the sheva mitzvos bnei noach is so that the world will have order in it to facilitate the observance of torah and mitzvos by Jews.

I’m seeing several of my posts have been not allowed through. Not quite sure why as there does seem to be a wide variety of opinions and sources brought and quoted, and I don’t why my posts have been banned. Maybe the mods agree with lc? I was enjoying the experience of interacting with yidden of all streams and hearing from anyone, but it’s not worth my time to type up posts that are not allowed thrush with no explanation given. So I’m sorry if I have offended anyone and I won’t bother you anymore bln. Have a wonderful shabbos!

Maybe the mods agree with lc?
Not sure if this is a threat or a bit of a bullying tactic but when posts are not put through the reason isn’t, and wouldn’t be, because we agree with another poster. That is quite an accusation, and if your point was to force a response, I’m sorry that you chose that route.

That’s what I meant, that about a fourth- half my posts have been banned ie not let through.

“Not sure if this is a threat or a bit of a bullying tactic but when posts are not put through the reason isn’t, and wouldn’t be, because we agree with another poster. That is quite an accusation, and if your point was to force a response, I’m sorry that you chose that route.”

I am honestly puzzled why those posts have been not allowed through. The only thing I can think of is that the mod disagreed with what I said, which shouldn’t be a crime as there are many varied opinions here. This is why I asked about Lc because I really don’t get it. I have enjoyed this forum so I do find it frustrating to have my posts disappear in thin air for no apparent reason. I am a rule keeper so if that is not the case, that my posts weren’t allowed through due to opinion/ source disagreement, please lmk why you banned the so I can know for the future.

For many of us who interact daily with goyim in a business environment, its generally not appropriate to engage them on religious beliefs. It some circumstances, under state and federal law, it could be view as contributing to a hostile work environment (i.e. there is a fine line between sharing factual information in response to a question versus engaging in evangelical behavior). Likewise, generally not a good idea to push sheva mitzvos discussions with goyim you don’t really know and haven’t inquired about Jewish beliefs in re “gentiles’.

Thanks, I guess I’ll try again. For me, the most demoralising thing is feeling I have wasted my time. I only have the last few moments of golus to accomplish what I can, and so I try to use my time well.

If my past posts can be allowed through, and whatever was found problematic edited out, with a reason I can keep in mind for the future, that would be wonderful. I think it’s worth the time because as I said, I’m a rule keeper and it’s good for me to know so I save both my own and the mods time.

I will try again on a different thread and I’m requesting the above there as well, as I do not try to post anything problematic, and do have a Torah source for what I do write.