If they can't retain the number they have this year, then it will show how badly they did fail. And if they can't run the sub at the same # next year they did this year, then they've failed again.

There will be people not renew the sub, but they'll also pick up people who didn't do it last year and liked what came out.

But if they can't at least retain what they have, then that is 100% on Mattel and no one else. We'll see how bad Mattel really wants to sell DC figures.

j1h15233 wrote:

Agree to disagree then I guess. I feel like the announcement of Ivy really pushed a lot of people over the edge. We still didn't get anywhere near the original numbers they wanted anyway so even if 2012 blows it out of the water and 2013 has perfect selections, we may not reach a number they can live with for a second year. I know one thing, if they don't promote the sub with more fervor than they've promoted anything else in the last 5 years, then it will fail.

What I want isn't as important, so much so as the "why are we getting what we are getting" is.

As I've said, poor management led us to get some figures (and more than likely more) that DC didn't finish in their retail line. I don't want sloppy leftover retail figures in the sub. They could have finished doom patrol, metal men, etc. But they didn't. Now we are seeing that in the sub. For the comletionists, that's great. For those of us who want other figures, we arleady know some slots are taken up because of poor management somewhere (bet in mattel, the retailers, DC, who knows).

I've already addressed my issues with the Bat Figures, and those things would sell at retail. You may say "well, Catwoman is a pegwarmer"...but I guarantee you (ok, I can't really guarantee you, but I can guess) that the amount they are producing in the sub is far less than went to retail. We'll never know, but do you think they are selling more Black Masks and Poison Ivy's to the sub then what sold of Catwoman or Catman at retail?

They also pushed out JSA after JSA after JSA in the 20 waves of DCUC we had, and yet ignore time and time again Jay. Why? Why do we have to get him in the sub when a clear logical choice would've been to put him in retail.

It was clear that some figures weren't going to make it out at retail (Flash Rogues, Guys like Rocket Red...the morrison JLA we haven't seen) and that many of those would make great sub figures. I just think, to date, that a majority of the sub figures would've made so much more sense at retail and tooling wouldn't have been any different than the tooling costs they used to give us Superfriends and Lantern Deputy figures. So I'm not arguing diversity. I'm arguing placement.

Shellhead wrote:

For the most part, I'm happy with the sub so far.

Bunger, you've been very clear you're not happy about the selection.

My question to you is simple: What would have been "good choices" in your opinion? Who would have passed muster?

So far we've gotten a JSA member, a Legion member, a GLverse member, a New World member, a JLI member, a highly demanded female baddie, and two members of the Metal men.

Does it always? Nope. Would it with a Batman figure? I think so. Catman seemed to sell pretty well. Maybe he didn't everywhere. The pegwarmers here were Mr Freeze. Black Mask looks cool.

I love your last line though. It's a forum. We debate issues. If you didn't want to talk about this with me, why even begin? How often do any of us change the minds of another on a message board? I've even admitted that mattel could easily change my mind.

MoMoney wrote:

Bunger43 wrote:

I disagree about black mask. Not so much about his popularity and being known, but he's a much cooler looking villain than say...Captain Cold. I don't think he would've been a beg warmer.

"Cool looking" doesn't always translate into sales.

Bunger43 wrote:

As for sub sales being low...why Poison Ivy? I don't buy that at all. There are a myriad of characters they could've chosen to help with the sales spikes...and if they wanted to use a batman character it seems a lot of people wanted Red Hood, etc (or any character that would've contributed towards finishing a team). I think she was a very poor choice for a figure for the sub, just my .02.

Because they likely already had approval for inclusion in Batman Legacy. They all but said that at SDCC, hinting at a variant between her green and caucasian skintones. It was a really quick fix - throw in a highly-requested figure, help spike sub sales, then we can go into the obscure.

Who would you have tossed in to hook buyers?

I see that nothing is ever going to change your perspective on this, though, so I'm done.

What I want isn't as important, so much so as the "why are we getting what we are getting" is.

As I've said, poor management led us to get some figures (and more than likely more) that DC didn't finish in their retail line. I don't want sloppy leftover retail figures in the sub. They could have finished doom patrol, metal men, etc. But they didn't. Now we are seeing that in the sub. For the comletionists, that's great. For those of us who want other figures, we arleady know some slots are taken up because of poor management somewhere (bet in mattel, the retailers, DC, who knows).

I've already addressed my issues with the Bat Figures, and those things would sell at retail. You may say "well, Catwoman is a pegwarmer"...but I guarantee you (ok, I can't really guarantee you, but I can guess) that the amount they are producing in the sub is far less than went to retail. We'll never know, but do you think they are selling more Black Masks and Poison Ivy's to the sub then what sold of Catwoman or Catman at retail?

They also pushed out JSA after JSA after JSA in the 20 waves of DCUC we had, and yet ignore time and time again Jay. Why? Why do we have to get him in the sub when a clear logical choice would've been to put him in retail.

It was clear that some figures weren't going to make it out at retail (Flash Rogues, Guys like Rocket Red...the morrison JLA we haven't seen) and that many of those would make great sub figures. I just think, to date, that a majority of the sub figures would've made so much more sense at retail and tooling wouldn't have been any different than the tooling costs they used to give us Superfriends and Lantern Deputy figures. So I'm not arguing diversity. I'm arguing placement.

Still not seeing any logic in your post

We dont any know the full line up for this year and they are working on finishing up teams like Metal Men, you know since we are getting a 2 pack

I just expected so much more and I personally feel been let down. I know a lot of you think this is the greatest thing since sliced bread, and I'm thrilled for you. I love getting stuff I want, so I'm glad you guys are.

What logic are you failing to follow? We got figures we probably never should've gotten (that really shouldn't have been a priority) when we could've gotten some of the sub figures sooner, and then received other figures instead.

It seems everyone hates the lantern wave. I personally didn't, but would I exchange that for some of the sub figures already and be getting something different in the sub? You bet I would. The superfriend figures? I get why that was done, but should that have taken priority over Jay Garrick, Aquaman with Hook hand, Huntress, and so many other figures people have been begging for?

Is that so hard to follow?

And you're right, we don't know the full lineup, and I've admitted as much, and even said (don't know if you read it or just ignored it..but in this very thread actually) I hope Mattel unleashes awesomeness at SDCC and makes me want to give them my money.

fball13z wrote:

Still not seeing any logic in your post

We dont any know the full line up for this year and they are working on finishing up teams like Metal Men, you know since we are getting a 2 pack

There's not a single figure in the sub that I don't like. And I HATE (and I can't stress that strongly enough) the Metal Men. But they did a fantastic job on them as well. I honestly don't see what the problem is.

Bunger, you keep blaming Mattel for mismanaging DCUC but really, outside of those last few waves, the mixes were really good. I mean they got over 300 figures out there. And it's NOT their fault that DCUC had to end at wave 20. That blame falls completely on DC themselves and this reboot. There's no way Mattel was planning to end this at 20 waves.

Bunger, you keep blaming Mattel for mismanaging DCUC but really, outside of those last few waves, the mixes were really good. I mean they got over 300 figures out there. And it's NOT their fault that DCUC had to end at wave 20. That blame falls completely on DC themselves and this reboot. There's no way Mattel was planning to end this at 20 waves.

God I want that to be so true! I wish someone from Mattel could reiterate this.

There's not a single figure in the sub that I don't like. And I HATE (and I can't stress that strongly enough) the Metal Men. But they did a fantastic job on them as well. I honestly don't see what the problem is.

I don't know that I hate the finished product on any of them. I think 4H do a great job.

Bunger, you keep blaming Mattel for mismanaging DCUC but really, outside of those last few waves, the mixes were really good. I mean they got over 300 figures out there. And it's NOT their fault that DCUC had to end at wave 20. That blame falls completely on DC themselves and this reboot. There's no way Mattel was planning to end this at 20 waves.

They keep telling us they have to plan the stuff a year ahead of time, right? Do you really believe that it ended so abruptly? I mean, they've already had to fold the retail line reboot. And then some of the figures we were getting had nothing to reboot (Superboy Prime, Batman beyond, etc).

But maybe it did. And I think we did get some awesome figures. I've never said we didn't. I know they had full intentions to finish lines. I can't recall another line (at least one I was interested) giving me so much.

But...common sense says the line will end at some time. As sales declined and retailers started slimming down (and this was back 18+ months ago), why not make it an urgency to finish teams? Be it Mattel, DC, the retailers, etc...it just seems that there was a cluster$#$% at the end and it didn't happen. And it's not like we didn't get plenty of new sculpts at the end.

Bunger, you keep blaming Mattel for mismanaging DCUC but really, outside of those last few waves, the mixes were really good. I mean they got over 300 figures out there. And it's NOT their fault that DCUC had to end at wave 20. That blame falls completely on DC themselves and this reboot. There's no way Mattel was planning to end this at 20 waves.

They keep telling us they have to plan the stuff a year ahead of time, right? Do you really believe that it ended so abruptly?

Maybe it did. And I think we did get some awesome figures. I've never said we didn't. I know they had full intentions to finish lines.

But...common sense says the line will end at some time. As sales declined and retailers started slimming down (and this was back 18+ months ago), why not make it an urgency to finish teams? Be it Mattel, DC, the retailers, etc...it just seems that there was a cluster$#$% at the end and it didn't happen.

They've never come right out and said it, but I thought it was pretty obvious that WB/DC came to them and said you have to change it up. It's reboot time for us so we want you to follow suit. Think about how bad their SDCC presentation was last year. It was almost like they had gotten the news that it was New 52 time a couple of days before the show.