How do we know what their respective form/fitness will be like in Rome? What's the point of setting Andy little tests like this?

Because that's how we mark progression. Otherwise what's the point? Sure there's no reason to hold anything against Murray personally - that's just ridiculous. It's "only" tennis. But as a fan, and as a player in his case, looking to progress, we may as well have some goals, otherwise all wins and losses are completely pointless. It's ok for people, apparently, to say how ridiculous people are being when they're negative or upset that Murray loses. If that's the case then I'd say it's equally absurd people celebrating him winning. I'm a fan and as someone who is also a huge tennis/sports fan, it's not my mentality to just say "ok whatever happens happens". Sport and the idea of sport fandom is absurd in general but we may as well embrace that. I don't just watch Murray and say "aww he's a nice lad, hope he wins but live and let live" and all that stuff. As such, and as a fan, the same way as targeting something as a football fan, I'll target things that I imagine Andy will also be targeting. I want to see progression on clay. Anything less than a semis here would indicate otherwise.

None of the top players, apart from Nadal, have really been in any sort of form at all. Which has opened the door for some players outside the top 10 to make the latter stages of these last couple of Masters. Wawrinka blitzing it.

True, but at least with Berdych people could pull the h2h record as something to excuse the result. It's safe to say it seems Murray can lose to pretty much any half decent player on clay. But if there's any realistic expectation of being more than an also-ran on this surface, there really shouldn't be anyone he loses to before the semis. I'm not confident, mind you, but that has to be the goal.

You're just being pedantic. You don't have to admit anything. Let me rephrase it. Would you agree that if Murray didn't reach the semi finals here it would confirm, let's say, he's not one of the top 10 players on clay? It's ok. No one is judging. This isn't a "god damn him, he sucks" post. If he's not, he's not. That's fine. But as a fan who wants to see him as one of the best players on ALL surfaces, I also want some evidence in the form of results and performances. That's all.

You're just being pedantic. You don't have to admit anything. Let me rephrase it. Would you agree that if Murray didn't reach the semi finals here it would confirm, let's say, he's not one of the top 10 players on clay? It's ok. No one is judging. This isn't a "god damn him, he sucks" post. If he's not, he's not. That's fine. But as a fan who wants to see him as one of the best players on ALL surfaces, I also want some evidence in the form of results and performances. That's all.

None of the top players, apart from Nadal, have really been in any sort of form at all. Which has opened the door for some players outside the top 10 to make the latter stages of these last couple of Masters. Wawrinka blitzing it.

Thank you for debating, or doing the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and saying "lalalalala not listening". What is the problem with what I said exactly? It's ridiculous. Let's just do away with the message board entirely because apparently most people would just rather every single post be "COME ON ANDY" rather than any sort of actual debate.

Can we all admit now that it would be very disappointing if he didn't reach the semis here? If he can't beat Del Potro/Almagro in their current form/fitness it would be very telling.

In an ideal world, Andy should be able to work through this draw but I have no idea what Andy has on his mind. I don't think he'd be too keen on spending too much time and energy on court since RG is pretty close and in two weeks time, grass season will start too. And both Queens and Wimbledon are back to back. Something will have to be compromised in the process.

True, but at least with Berdych people could pull the h2h record as something to excuse the result. It's safe to say it seems Murray can lose to pretty much any half decent player on clay. But if there's any realistic expectation of being more than an also-ran on this surface, there really shouldn't be anyone he loses to before the semis. I'm not confident, mind you, but that has to be the goal.

In an ideal world, Andy should be able to work through this draw but I have no idea what Andy has on his mind. I don't think he'd be too keen on spending too much time and energy on court since RG is pretty close and in two weeks time, grass season will start too. And both Queens and Wimbledon are back to back. Something will have to be compromised in the process.

I definitely think Andy wants to do well in Rome and RG I don't think he's thinking of Wimbledon at all now....unless he has an specific injury he's worried about i think he'll be giving 100% in Rome and expects himself to improve on his result in Madrid.