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Originally posted by survivalcat
hey last time I check this US gov especially is benevolent these days but in the not soo distant past they eliminated rebel forces like it was #ing
star wars.

What say you?

Oh now you think I am unable to come up with darpa class solutions with civilian solutions for thermal evasion...well no one talks about that sort of
thing here I noticed so what are you getting at?

edit on 19-11-2012 by survivalcat because: (no reason given)

If I was to tell you how I can evade those sensors it would make me a qualifiable target to intel agencies.

I have ideas but testing them today with success means nothing when our technology is set to be so sensitive that there is absolutely no way to
evade.

They will destroy this planet effectively and thus they must control it as a prime directive of having consumed all resources capable of being used
against them.

So in that regard you are right but guess what I believe some of us who care to can find some loopholes with the right materials and locations to the
drone coverage.

edit on 19-11-2012 by survivalcat because: (no reason given)

Think 3 layers of woolen blankets with 2 layers of the space blanket stuff in-between works for a single person for a short time against any current
(known) thermal military device. (woolen blanket, space blanket, woolen blanket, space blanket, woolen blanket)

Toss some brush and camo netting (any kind) on top of the brush for regular night vision blending.

The blanket structure - when placed upon sticks with a wavy surface - can be used again and again when the drones are overhead. Provide an air gap
between the layers to lessen detection...if you are a really hot target, you'll just give out a rectangle silhouette depending on your blanket
size...so to minimize that - dig a hole. Place said blankets within the hole - use earth to seal the edges. For your entrance - brush and more space
blanket (in a fan-like fashion) to dissipate the heat - ensure the openings of the blankets are into brush. Breath into a towel (face down) to
minimize moisture heat from popping up...or if your jacket is hooded - wear your jacket backwards with the hood in your face.

No DARPA class solution required.

From high up - the heat signature outline (using the above) will be so small, the enlisted sensor F-tard wouldn't even know you are there...unless
they are actively looking for you. Have a solution for that too - but like you said...

I'm not sure what thermal imaging would be used but the FLIR cameras used in DEA helicopters have a hard time picking up a heat signature behind heavy
brush let alone behind something that's designed for that purpose.

I think there are tarps / blankets that are used to shield 100% of visible heat. I think many growers of a certain controlled substance tend to use
these.

Absolute or is this Absolut survival ?
Nothing personal, but this is nonsense.
There is nothing minimal about digging a space 8'x 4' x 6' high in to a hillside, in the woods no less.
You're going to dig this with what - a backhoe?
Even if you're fortunate enough to not hit large rocks or huge tangles of roots just how would this take to dig with a folding pack shovel - a
week?
It doesn't even address the issue of insulating the front of your underground house.
And yes, you can heat shelters inside (not tents though) safely inside without a rocket stove.

Edible leaves in the 6 cold months of the year?
You just linked to a search page?
Sure there's various weeds that sometimes grow in the cold months in certain areas.
Deer and rabbits can eat grass but we sure can't and the only other edible leaves in winter are from evergreens.

I'm not going to bother reading beyond this first part.
Bad information is worse than none at all - thinking one knows a subject is far more dangerous than starting with nothing and figuring it out for
yourself.

Sure, this forum seems to be most American, but is your country on the virge of total Anarchy?
I think not?

Why would someone wanna live in the ground and eat leaves?

Again, If I missed something Im sorry.
I follow current world events fairly often, but I must have missed something here.

I think it is just an instinct to follow what is current.. People everywhere around me are doing the prepping thing for some catastrophe of one kind
or another. My family included... Its contagious, I joined the ranks too. I have gathered up some leaves that can be eaten too. So if you don't want
to catch this prepping thing...don't come here.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
Absolute or is this Absolut survival ?
Nothing personal, but this is nonsense.
There is nothing minimal about digging a space 8'x 4' x 6' high in to a hillside, in the woods no less.
You're going to dig this with what - a backhoe?
Even if you're fortunate enough to not hit large rocks or huge tangles of roots just how would this take to dig with a folding pack shovel - a
week?
It doesn't even address the issue of insulating the front of your underground house.
And yes, you can heat shelters inside (not tents though) safely inside without a rocket stove.

Edible leaves in the 6 cold months of the year?
You just linked to a search page?
Sure there's various weeds that sometimes grow in the cold months in certain areas.
Deer and rabbits can eat grass but we sure can't and the only other edible leaves in winter are from evergreens.

I'm not going to bother reading beyond this first part.
Bad information is worse than none at all - thinking one knows a subject is far more dangerous than starting with nothing and figuring it out for
yourself.

You did pen a catchy title though.

edit on 21-11-2012 by Asktheanimals because: added comment

I wouldn't say its complete non-sense. A dugout is a last resort of course and certainly a minimalist existence if you had to live in one. Yes labor
intensive but never the less could provide shelter if necessary. As for leaves in winter maybe the OP lives in a southern state or S Califorinia
where there are edible leaves year round? And yes we can eat grass if necessary like the animals although not highly desirable. While its not the
ideal all the OP mentions could be useful skills at least temporarily. I personally would not want to live like that for any length of time and only
if I had to temporarily... Cut the OP a break the thread is at least contributing to thought stimulation and offering some skill sets...

water flows down hills - and if there is a hole in the way - it will fill it - erroding the walls and flooding your tent

i shall only scan the rest of your " advice " for any commedy value

Anyone who knows a little about terrain can look at a hill and see where the bulk of water flows commonly called the drainage and put their shelter
where it doesn't and can also erect damns or channels so no water that might flow will flow into the shelter. The top of the hill comes to mind...
Writing off the entire post because you disagree with one aspect is what is comedic...

Leaves are fine for foraging but in the cold months lose most nutritional value they once had. Roots are an easier source of food in winter. Without
knowledge of what plants you can eat and which parts as well as how they made need processing you can get yourself in big trouble, just like Chris
McCandles killed himself up in Alaska. Most people will need a reliable guide like the Petersons field guide to wild edible plants.

I highly doubt you can grow potatoes in a forest as they need plenty of sunlight to grow. Acorns are a good source of protein but the tannins must
be processed out. One should NOT eat sprouted acorns.

Once acorns sprout, they are less nutritious, as the seed tissue converts to the indigestible lignins that form the root.[6]

Like I said, wrong information is worse than none at all, especially when it comes to survival. I can appreciate people wanting to help others but
unless you really know what you're writing about one probably shouldn't.

Leaves are fine for foraging but in the cold months lose most nutritional value they once had. Roots are an easier source of food in winter. Without
knowledge of what plants you can eat and which parts as well as how they made need processing you can get yourself in big trouble, just like Chris
McCandles killed himself up in Alaska. Most people will need a reliable guide like the Petersons field guide to wild edible plants.

I highly doubt you can grow potatoes in a forest as they need plenty of sunlight to grow. Acorns are a good source of protein but the tannins must
be processed out. One should NOT eat sprouted acorns.

Once acorns sprout, they are less nutritious, as the seed tissue converts to the indigestible lignins that form the root.[6]

Like I said, wrong information is worse than none at all, especially when it comes to survival. I can appreciate people wanting to help others but
unless you really know what you're writing about one probably shouldn't.

You're the only one providing comedic value here.

Acorns take about three days after initial sprouting to start forming the wooden root. If you feel like waiting three whole days, then by all means,
they are less digestible, but not entirely indigestible.

There are accounts online of people eating sprouted acorns. There are accounts in real life of people eating sprouted acorns, including me.

Now, unless you want to picture some more end-of-the-world Noah storms completely obliterating a hillside, I suggest you stop being so aggressive,
it's not doing any good.

Whatever.
As Hawkiye said people who take information from the web as gospel deserve what they get.
I'm just giving my opinion.
If you think that's being aggressive don't post on the web because not everyone is going to agree with you.

water flows down hills - and if there is a hole in the way - it will fill it - erroding the walls and flooding your tent

i shall only scan the rest of your " advice " for any commedy value

I agree, but if the OP puts the top soil as a break between his roof and hill corners, it should do fine. If the hill is so massive that rain water
seeps past the top soil line, doesn't matter what he uses, he'll get flooded like you mentioned.

The OP was just mentioning a 'blue print' of what to do - if your time and resources are limited, a hillside home would be better than any debris
home. Maybe the OP had an Icelandic/Viking style homestead in mind? Those style homes have been proven to last for generations and be water proof.

Just google Icelandic homes - you'll see what a sod house can do (don't bother with the regular city/suburb style homes - stick to the old world
country homes and don't be a terd about it) - they didn't build them into hills - but they did build them into the ground. Not the same, but the idea
is similar. They did it out of necessity rather than mobility. They meant to stick to their homestead for most of the year.

-CN

[edit] - google turf or sod houses - even sod longhouse instead of icelandic if that search turns up too many modern looking homes.

Winter months certainly make it difficult to forage for edible plants. The best plan to not starve is to hunt like crazy at the start of the cold
season. During the winter as long as the temperatures are cold enough you just need tight containers as the outside air is like a freezer. If you
live near a mountain stream you can utilize it as a freezer or refrigerator. In the old days people would pack food into water tight containers and
submerge them into a frigid stream.

Leaves are fine for foraging but in the cold months lose most nutritional value they once had. Roots are an easier source of food in winter. Without
knowledge of what plants you can eat and which parts as well as how they made need processing you can get yourself in big trouble, just like Chris
McCandles killed himself up in Alaska. Most people will need a reliable guide like the Petersons field guide to wild edible plants.

I highly doubt you can grow potatoes in a forest as they need plenty of sunlight to grow. Acorns are a good source of protein but the tannins must
be processed out. One should NOT eat sprouted acorns.

Once acorns sprout, they are less nutritious, as the seed tissue converts to the indigestible lignins that form the root.[6]

Like I said, wrong information is worse than none at all, especially when it comes to survival. I can appreciate people wanting to help others but
unless you really know what you're writing about one probably shouldn't.

You're the only one providing comedic value here.

Acorns take about three days after initial sprouting to start forming the wooden root. If you feel like waiting three whole days, then by all means,
they are less digestible, but not entirely indigestible.

There are accounts online of people eating sprouted acorns. There are accounts in real life of people eating sprouted acorns, including me.

Now, unless you want to picture some more end-of-the-world Noah storms completely obliterating a hillside, I suggest you stop being so aggressive,
it's not doing any good.

edit on 22-11-2012 by Fevrier because: (no reason given)

I'm still trying to figure out how you plan on storing 100 kilos or pounds (either way) of acorns. Are you going to dry them and then put them in
what exactly so they don't mold? Are you going to pound them into flour how?

As for digging the shelter, it is possible with determination and a shovel, but will take at least a full days work depending on the grade of the land
and amount of soil etc. I help build rice terraces so I understand a bit about digging in the dirt =b However, this kind of work is obviously not easy
and requires a lot of energy, thus a lot of food (energy) is needed to continue this kind of work.

Also, acorns are harvested once a year, so if you plan on your 100k/lb. acorns holding you over, how will you store them and dry them? And yeah, sorry
to be technical, it kinda matters

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