That he's in custody so quickly after his lawyers stated they had no clue where he is gives me the impression that he was already in the process of turning himself in when they called that press conference.

Isn't the distinction between manslaughter and murder whether the attack was intended to cause death? I.e., if you hit someone with your car or punch them in the temple and they die, it's hard to prove that you intended to kill them. But Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit, has probably taken gun safety classes, and is presumed to know that shooting someone in the chest is likely to result in death.

The official says authorities know knew where Zimmerman is was, and that they're planning to arrest him soon rather than let him turn himself in. The official says Zimmerman isn't in Florida. His arrest has been delayed partly because of Florida's "stand your ground" law.

Isn't the distinction between manslaughter and murder whether the attack was intended to cause death? I.e., if you hit someone with your car or punch them in the temple and they die, it's hard to prove that they intended to kill. But Zimmerman has a concealed carry permit, has probably taken gun safety classes, and is presumed to know that shooting someone in the chest is likely to result in death.

I'm guessing there's an autopsy report that doesn't show powder residue on Trayvon...so Zimmerman might have been a few feet further back when he shot him. Watch for the defense to be "accidental discharge" which would support my first guess, which is that he had the safety off and a round in the chamber when he approached Trayvon Martin...like all good red-neck Steven Seagal/Chuck Norris fans who fantasize about being cops do.

The official says authorities know where Zimmerman is, and that they're planning to arrest him soon rather than let him turn himself in. The official says Zimmerman isn't in Florida. His arrest has been delayed partly because of Florida's "stand your ground" law.

Okay...let's see what celebrity lawyers show up to fuck this trial up like the Casey Anthony one. It is, after all, Florida.

Still, I'm glad to see he's in custody. I do hope he gets a fair trial...but that depends on if the media does its job and ignores the case for a few months then reports on the results.

The lawyer handling Casey Anthoney is actually a damned good defense attorney. I don't agree with the verdict, but she does the best for her clients as she gets them. She was co-counsel on the infamous Brendan Butler case in Jacksonville, Florida where the Jax PD picked up a random 15 year old black kid for a murder that happened nearby, and then literally beat a confession out of him with their fists. The kid had nothing to do with the murder, of course. The defense absolutely destroyed the prosecution and the Jax POD on the stand. It is painful to watch in the documentary Murder on a Sunday Morning.

I'm guessing there's an autopsy report that doesn't show powder residue on Trayvon...so Zimmerman might have been a few feet further back when he shot him. Watch for the defense to be "accidental discharge" which would support my first guess, which is that he had the safety off and a round in the chamber when he approached Trayvon Martin...like all good red-neck Steven Seagal/Chuck Norris fans who fantasize about being cops do.

If they were as close as he claimed, there should be powder burns on Trayvon and possibly even a star shaped skin lesion where high velocity propellant gasses actually burn under the skin if the muzzle is touching the body or very close to it.

I see the discussion of the possibility that the charges may be tactical. I think such tactics would be dirty. People should be charged without any thought about the "golden middle" sentence. Such tactics can also be used on innocent people.

If they were as close as he claimed, there should be powder burns on Trayvon and possibly even a star shaped skin lesion where high velocity propellant gasses actually burn under the skin if the muzzle is touching the body or very close to it.

Are they going to need to/want to exhume Martin's body? That would be tough for the family, but I'm wondering how much physical evidence they might still be able to document...I guess it depends on how thoroughly the Sanford PD actually recorded the crime scene.

I worry they're gonna blow it by trying for a splashy conviction on a higher level charge. Prosecutors seem quite susceptible to overreaching, unfortunately.

I think it's actually a plea strategy. Going for Murder 2 would give them leeway to still plea down to manslaughter or some other lesser charge. If they'd gone for the lesser charge from the start they might not have as much room.

Of course, that's just my TV show legalese thinking. I'm not a lawyer. But it would make sense.

Are they going to need to/want to exhume Martin's body? That would be tough for the family, but I'm wondering how much physical evidence they might still be able to document...I guess it depends on how thoroughly the Sanford PD actually recorded the crime scene.

I see the discussion of the possibility that the charges may be tactical. I think such tactics would be dirty. People should be charged without any thought about the "golden middle" sentence. Such tactics can also be used on innocent people.

They are, every day. Most people can't afford competent council and so plead to the lower charge out of sheer fear even though they may well be innocent. That's 'Murkin Justice for you. (spit)

UCLA anthropologists asked hundreds of Americans to guess the size and muscularity of four men based solely on photographs of their hands holding a range of easily recognizable objects, including handguns.

The research, which publishes today in the scholarly journal PLoS ONE, confirms what scrawny thugs have long known: Brandishing a weapon makes a man appear bigger and stronger than he would otherwise.

"There's nothing about the knowledge that gun powder makes lead bullets fly through the air at damage-causing speeds that should make you think that a gun-bearer is bigger or stronger, yet you do," said Daniel Fessler, the lead author of the study and an associate professor of anthropology at UCLA. "Danger really does loom large — in our minds."

Researchers say the findings suggest an unconscious mental mechanism that gauges a potential adversary and then translates the magnitude of that threat into the same dimensions used by animals to size up their adversaries: size and strength.

"We've isolated a capacity to assess threats in a simple way," said Colin Holbrook, a UCLA postdoctoral scholar in anthropology and co-author of the study. "Though this capacity is very efficient, it can misguide us."

The study is part of larger project funded by the U.S. Air Force Office of Scientific Research to understand how people make decisions in situations where violent conflict is a possibility. The findings are expected to have ramifications for law enforcement, prison guards and the military.

"We're exploring how people think about the relative likelihood that they will win a conflict, and then how those thoughts affect their decisions about whether to enter into conflict," said Fessler, whose research focuses on the biological and cultural bases of human behavior. He is the director of UCLA's Center for Behavior, Evolution and Culture, an interdisciplinary group of researchers who explore how various forms of evolution shape behavior.

[...]

Study participants consistently judged pistol-packers to be taller and stronger than the men holding the other objects, even though the experiment's four hand models were recruited on the basis of their equivalent hand size and similar hand appearance (white and without identifying marks such as tattoos or scars).

To rule out the possibility that a feature of any one hand might influence the estimates, researchers had taken separate pictures of each hand holding each object — some participants saw the gun held by one hand model, others saw the same gun held by another model, and so on; they did the same thing for each of the objects. The researchers also shuffled the order in which the photos were presented.

On average, participants judged pistol packers to be 17 percent taller and stronger than those judged to be the smallest and weakest men — the ones holding caulking guns. Hand models holding the saw and drill followed gun-wielders in size and strength.

[...]

The role of guns and gun ownership in America as being signs of masculinity and of strength should not be under appreciated.

Martin was going to watch an all-star game on tv, was getting skittles for his brother, and tea for himself. If we are to believe that he, an unarmed, 17 year old boy, was intent on murdering someone on the way home, then we should just give up on this species.

2. SECOND-DEGREE MURDER — The crime of second-degree murder occurs when a person commits either murder with a depraved mind or accomplice felony murder.

Murder with a depraved mind occurs when a person is killed, without any premeditated design, by an act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind showing no regard for human life.

The primary distinction between premeditated first-degree murder and second-degree murder with a depraved mind is that first-degree murder requires a specific and premeditated intent to kill.

The crime of second degree murder is classified as a first degree felony. If convicted of second degree murder, a judge is required to impose a minimum prison sentence of 16¾ years in prison and can impose any additional combination of the following penalties:

Glad to see it happen. I'm still a little bit in awe of his NOT being arrested immediately... Even here in gun-slingin' Texas, deliberately going after somebody in the dark with a gun, against the word of a 911 operator, when you're not defending your home or property, is a likely ticket to the klink (I've got a CHL myself, and they practically beat conflict avoidance into you at the state-mandated training class... First rule of self-defense, no be there!).

I think it's actually a plea strategy. Going for Murder 2 would give them leeway to still plea down to manslaughter or some other lesser charge. If they'd gone for the lesser charge from the start they might not have as much room.

Of course, that's just my TV show legalese thinking. I'm not a lawyer. But it would make sense.

Same thinking here; from what we know about the whole sordid situation, I think the special prosecutor has to know that the SYG law and the laziness/possible complictness of the Sanford PD in trying to shuffle this under the rug would complicate the state's case in front of a jury and on appeal. Problem is, the family's pleas for justice would have been ignored, if not for the huge public outcry across the nation; the FL authorities (and the Feds, to an extent) are feeling intense pressure to do something about Zimmerman and this is Florida's answer.

IANAL, but I have little doubt that this is part of a strategy to get Zimmerman to cop to manslaughter, because murder 2 is gonna be awful hard to hang (and get it to stick) on him.

I can't wait for the medical report on his injuries. Would a jury have the option of manslaughter if unable to convict on murder?

It's the prosecutor's discretion, they could file both charges to cover the bases or try to box the jury in. Florida law classifies murder and manslaughter under different criminal codes.:

Murder in the second degree is defined in sections (2) and (3) of 782.04:

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

(3) When a person is killed in the perpetration of, or in the attempt to perpetrate, any:
(a) Trafficking offense prohibited by s. 893.135(1),
(b) Arson,
(c) Sexual battery,
(d) Robbery,
(e) Burglary,
(f) Kidnapping,
(g) Escape,
(h) Aggravated child abuse,
(i) Aggravated abuse of an elderly person or disabled adult,
(j) Aircraft piracy,
(k) Unlawful throwing, placing, or discharging of a destructive device or bomb,
(l) Carjacking,
(m) Home-invasion robbery,
(n) Aggravated stalking,
(o) Murder of another human being,
(p) Resisting an officer with violence to his or her person, or
(q) Felony that is an act of terrorism or is in furtherance of an act of terrorism,
by a person other than the person engaged in the perpetration of or in the attempt to perpetrate such felony, the person perpetrating or attempting to perpetrate such felony is guilty of murder in the second degree, which constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

The argument could be that Zimmerman's behavior was imminently dangerous, but this could run agains his SYG rights to be where he was and the fact that the police instruction not to follow was worded in an incredibly passive way. In other words, was his "imminently dangerous" behavior clearly illegal in such a way that it voids SYG. A previous court allowed SYG to protect a man who pursued and stabbed a thief to death even thought he attempted to hide the evidence, sold third party property recovered from the thief and lied to police.

Alternatively if it can be established that Zimmerman lied and actually attempted to detain Martin the prosecutor could argue this constituted a false citizen's arrest and was technically kidnapping. I didn't bold (n) Aggravated Stalking because that would probably require a prior police or court finding a history of Zimmerman stalking Martin and injunction.

I knew it was bad news when it was announced that there would be no grand jury. The grand jury would have issued a “no bill” and there would have been riots. Our justice system is being held hostage by Jesse & Co.
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Absolute HORSE CRAP!!
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Welcome to Obama’s America
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Both political prosecution and persecution.
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Politicians know who will riot, burn and destroy and who won’t.

Politicians also know they will be held responsible for mayhem and even inconvenience.

It is a very easy call for a politician.
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I’m guessing that Obama will make sure the trial doesn’t begin until after the election.

Anyway, I wonder if Zimmerman will vote for Obama again this time around.
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This is absolute bullsh*t. This man was defending himself.
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Zimmerman is likely innocent, but will be put through meat grinder for sure. Even if found not guilty of these state counts, the federals will then bring “civil rights” charges. Like what happened to the Rodney King cops who ended up in jail for many years, even though found not guilty on the underlying charges.

So the constitutional ban on double jeopardy ends up being no obstacle to politically driven persecutions like these. If they decide to get him, they will get him.
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The point is to have 13% of the population of the US, the Blacks, RULE. Everything.

Not just Whites. Asians. Hispanics. Indians. Mixed races. EVERYTHING.

And 0bama’s inner circle of Black-only security is living proof, press photo ops be damned.

Michelle, the grandmother, and all the hangars on are PLEASED.
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Listening to the presser, the women in red, I assume the persecutor(sic), sounds like she's reading a fairytale to 3rd graders on a public library field trip.
Zimmerman is so screwed.
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What a vile pandering bitch. Not shocked. Anyone still wanna talk about how she’ll do what the evidence says with all this romantic talk of “our victim”.
Is she for real?
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One more thing to add to your list ...

If Zimmerman was acting in any kind of official capacity for the HOA when he was patrolling the neighborhood, there's a good chance that the HOA bylaws (or Florida law) indemnify him in the event of legal trouble. So if/when he's acquitted of the charge(s), he may be able to sue the HOA to recover the cost of his legal defense.

How ironic is it that Trayvon Martin's father -- who lived in that neighborhood -- may ultimately end up helping pay Zimmerman's legal bills?
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S##T, I was really hoping Zimmerman was off in Brazil by now, especially since there is no extradition treaty between the US and Brazil. He could’ve been flipping the bird to Obama, Holder, and Holder’s people.
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America is a caste society upside down. The lowest caste rules by intimidating all others with threats of bloody riots.
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I am so sick of deference to Blacks. It makes me want to puke. I am giving up on trying to nice to these people. They are all spoiled rotten . They never worked a day in their life and its time to get our hoods on. This makes me sick!!
I hope they riot.

Note too he's got a new lawyer. Mark O'Mara, an Orlando lawyer and former prosecutor. His background is much more on point:

Mark M. O'Mara has been practicing Criminal and Family Law in Central Florida for 28 years, and is presently Board Certified as a Criminal Trial Specialist and a Marital and Family Law Specialist. Mark is a former felony prosecutor and Division Chief and has handled all types of criminal cases, including traffic, property crimes, DUI, drug cases and Death Penalty cases. He has extensive trial experience in both state and federal criminal defense. Mark also represents clients in contested divorce cases, involving child time sharing issues, alimony and division of assets. Mark is also involved in many Bar activities, including serving as President of the Seminole County Bar Association and serving on both Circuit and Federal Grievance Committees. He currently serves as the legal analyst for Central Florida's WKMG Channel 6.

From the CV, he seems much more capable of dealing with the media crush, as well as dealing with the legal issues of the case.

Gunfire tore through the new 3-series BMW near the University of Southern California campus in the midnight rain, shattering the car's windows and striking the 20-year-old Chinese international student inside, police said.

Her companion, a Chinese student and the driver, was also struck in the shooting early Wednesday, but was able to run to a nearby house where he pounded on the door pleading for help, they said.

Soon, Ying Wu and Ming Qu were dead, and the search for their killer was on. Police suspect an attempted carjacking.

A doctor fatally shot a former colleague Wednesday whom he apparently blamed for his dismissal from a residency program over a year ago, then killed himself minutes later when police stopped his car.

Dr. Payman Houshmandpour, 32, a medical resident, was gunned down in his car Wednesday morning as he was pulling out of his parking spot at an upscale apartment complex in a Philadelphia suburb on his way to work at Virtua health system.
Giocondo Navek, 39, was waiting for the doctor to leave his home when he approached the car and fired several times, then sped away in his own vehicle, said Jason Laughlin, a spokesman for the county prosecutor.

Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.

If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?

They'd have to have some sort of evidence to file the charges. They clearly feel confident enough to file Murder 2.

The question, I believe, lies in being able to meet the burden of proof, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. If they don't think they can clear it, but that they have enough to convict on a lesser charge, then they'd offer a plea deal. I think. If all those legal TV shows I watch have taught me anything. Haha.

Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.

If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?

Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.

If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?

They'd have to have some sort of evidence to file the charges. They clearly feel confident enough to file Murder 2.

The question, I believe, lies in being able to meet the burden of proof, which is beyond a reasonable doubt. If they don't think they can clear it, but that they have enough to convict on a lesser charge, then they'd offer a plea deal. I think. If all those legal TV shows I watch have taught me anything. Haha.

Then they should simply charge him with the lesser charge. Again, I don't know what the real practice is, but charging for the sake of intimidation (i.e. making the subject more pliable for a plea bargain) is unethical (and should be criminal as far as I'm concerned).

Yes. Still, there's absolutely no good reason for her to file charges that aren't firmly supported by the evidence.

There's plenty of reasons why she might file these charges, whether "good" or not depends on one's viewpoint. Before I heard 2nd degree, I figured it would be manslaughter on very solid evidence. Now? I'm beginning to lean towards over-charging for the purposes of scaring GZ into a plea bargain.

Then they should simply charge him with the lesser charge. Again, I don't know what the real practice is, but charging for the sake of intimidation (i.e. making the subject more pliable for a plea bargain) is unethical (and should be criminal as far as I'm concerned).

The SCOTUS has already recognized that plea bargaining is how most criminal cases are resolved. I don't like it either, but that is the lay of the land. Over-charging is the stick that the DA has to force you to accept a bargain.

He turned himself in swiftly and can plausibly argue that he won't be safe in jail. No matter how high the bail is set the Freepers will money bomb the amount within 24 hours. He's also got family and ties to the community. It's pretty obvious to me that he'll be out quickly.

The SCOTUS has already recognized that plea bargaining is how most criminal cases are resolved. I don't like it either, but that is the lay of the land. Over-charging is the stick that the DA has to force you to accept a bargain.

Oh, sure. It's just it's still unethical, regardless of what the SCOTUS thinks.

Prosecutors have a wide amount of leeway in charging. What they should be doing and what they are doing will differ. Some prosecutors will charge with the highest crime the evidence supports, and include all the lesser includeds, while others will pick and choose the charges. There are merits to both approaches.

However, plea deals work to the favor of both prosecutors and defendants. Reduces trial burdens/costs, certainty that isn't possible with going to trial, etc.

Well, it's not just that. Because it is a murder charge and not manslaughter the prosecution will have to prove that Zimmerman intended to kill Trayvon.

SYG won't stand as a defense on this one. It worked to delay getting charged, but charged he is, and if SYG was any kind of a defense, then they wouldn't go for M2. I'm interested in the report on physical evidence recorded in the case - not that there was much, but if the distance was calculated to be more than point blank, and that is coupled with the fact that Zimmerman stalked Martin, and not the other way around, then SYG is about as effective as saying it was Obama's fault.

Not really. He was in touch with the P.A. He more or less turned himself in before the arrest, and if he was out of State, he didn't fight extradition and voluntarily returned. Why not grant him (I hope a significantly large) bail?

Prosecutors have a wide amount of leeway in charging. What they should be doing and what they are doing will differ. Some prosecutors will charge with the highest crime the evidence supports, and include all the lesser includeds, while others will pick and choose the charges. There are merits to both approaches.

As long as the evidence supports, there's nothing wrong with it. It's overcharging - i.e. charging with more than the evidence supports with a sole intention to get someone to plea - that is obviously unethical. Blackmail, in fact.

Fair enough, but that still puts the onus on the prosecutor to show something about Zimmerman that a jury would have to decipher.

If I was on the jury I'd have a hard time determining if Zimmerman really wanted to fire, or if he was just scared and fired irrationally (thus manslaughter.) What would the prosecutor have to show me to convince me that this was murder and not manslaughter?

Play the 911 tape of the operator telling him not to follow Trayvon - which he did anyway.

Oh, surprise, surprise. The extreme Right Winger on my FB post just posted a picture showing a grade-school GZ and a picture I'm not sure actually is TM saying that GZ protected his neighborhood from a thug.

I wish that all thugs were just out to get a soda and some skittles. Be a mighty nice world.

Contemplating "ignore" status, but that would be like ignoring the crazy guy at the end of the street. Not always a good idea.

Also, just show them as their real ages. I've got no problem with seeing a 17 year old black male as being completely innocent, tall or not.

She said that 911 didn't need him to do that. So that's neither here, nor there. It's not an order, not much of a suggestion either, and I'm not sure what legal force even a direct order would have (I suspect none).

It just occurred to me that Zimmerman's own defense backs up the murder 2 charge. Zimmerman claims that he didn't shoot Martin in the heat of passion--he shot him, he says, with the intention of protecting himself from serious violence, which implies a rational calculation. The stand-your-ground law requires that the shooter have a "reasonable belief" that he's in mortal danger, where "reasonable" actually means something. Perhaps the evidence is actually that he didn't have any such reasonable belief.

That would put him in a bind -- he'd either have to change his story, say he was acting in the heat of passion and lose his SYG coverage, and it'd be a slam dunk of a manslaughter charge, or else stick to his story and go down for murder.

Maybe they're trying to force this choice before trial, which would likely boil down to him pleading to manslaughter.

On the initial police reports, the officer listed Murder II and Manslaughter in the possible charges.

The initial police work was so shoddy, but the autopsy results are unknown to all of us. One good thing I read is that they did keep George's clothes and the medical examiner has Taryn's clothes. The body and the clothes will many times speak for the victim. Unfortunately it was raining.

This case is so high profile, I bet the prosecutor must have a good case. Zimmerman has made himself a reputation before this even happened, one that he may regret now. At his arraignment, we should hope the Judge or the prosecutor would ask for a gag order. Frankly the Martin family and the Internet has this case out there and really shown a spotlight on the Sanford police department. That need our vigilance now, from what I have read, the PD needs it.

Well I'm guessing it was not the first time they spoke. GZ had called 911 to report suspicious black people in the neighborhood, garage doors left open, and other non-crimes quite a few times before. They all knew crazy George. Question is why didn't they tell him to back off and quit bothering with nuisance 911 calls long before then.

It just occurred to me that Zimmerman's own defense backs up the murder 2 charge. Zimmerman claims that he didn't shoot Martin in the heat of passion--he shot him, he says, with the intention of protecting himself from serious violence, which implies a rational calculation. The stand-your-ground law requires that the shooter have a "reasonable belief" that he's in mortal danger, where "reasonable" actually means something. Perhaps the evidence is actually that he didn't have any such reasonable belief.

That would put him in a bind -- he'd either have to change his story, say he was acting in the heat of passion and lose his SYG coverage, and it'd be a slam dunk of a manslaughter charge, or else stick to his story and go down for murder.

Maybe they're trying to force this choice before trial, which would likely boil down to him pleading to manslaughter.

Theoretically plausible, but that would hinge largely on what evidence it is that they're relying upon to argue that he was in no real danger. And I think that's ultimately going to come down to the results of the autopsy.

She said that 911 didn't need him to do that. So that's neither here, nor there. It's not an order, not much of a suggestion either, and I'm not sure what legal force even a direct order would have (I suspect none).

Nonetheless, a good prosecutor could (and should) use such information in order to bolster her case.

This guy was, in theory, working with law enforcement. But he saw fit to ignore part of the law enforcement apparatus in order to stalk and ultimately kill a kid.

Yes. He was stalking an innocent person engaged in lawful business against the express and explicit direction from the dispatcher and also in direct contravention of every neighborhood watch policy. It also really trashes his SYG defense.

Yes. He was stalking an innocent person engaged in lawful business against the express and explicit direction from the dispatcher and also in direct contravention of every neighborhood watch policy. It also really trashes his SYG defense.

Yes. He was stalking an innocent person engaged in lawful business against the express and explicit direction from the dispatcher and also in direct contravention of every neighborhood watch policy. It also really trashes his SYG defense.

Again, there was no direction from the dispatcher. There was a meek expression of opinion. The rest of the above is irrelevant to the 911 call.

At most this may be relevant as some sort of a "character detail" to support the narrative, but it's a secondary detail at best.

This is pretty much inevitable with his former lawyers calling a bizarre press conference to publicly state "we can't find him." Kinda forced the prosecutors hand. Maybe they thought he was going to bolt, and did it intentionally?

Not by a long shot. You've got to work your way through TX, CA, FL, and AZ first. Even our neighbor PA, what with it's fondness for frothy mixtures, teaching creationism, and forced ultrasound laws, outdoes us in the crazy quotient.

No. She was being polite to a person who she thought was doing his civic duty, but it was meant to be an order. It is also staggeringly obtuse for anybody to argue (I know that you have said nothing of the osrt) that Zimmermann would be unaware that LE takes a dim view of civilians chasing or following people with a gun.

No. She was being polite to a person who she thought was doing his civic duty, but it was meant to be an order. It is also staggeringly obtuse for anybody to argue (I know that you have said nothing of the osrt) that Zimmermann would be unaware that LE takes a dim view of civilians chasing or following people with a gun.

I don't know why you're stuck with this untenable position that an opinion that is not worded even closely to an order is an order, but apparently there's no convincing you otherwise. So let's wait for the trial.

How do we as whites get organised, get a huge gathering up, ad march and make our demands that blacks stop killing us at app 18:1 and stop committing app 54 rapes a day against whites, many of them savage beyond anything in a civilised society? Are these statistics not enough to get whites to sacrifice a day or two and gather in solidarity for the sake of our chidren and our elderly who are the victims of crimes by blacks in numbers far greater than white on black crime? White on black crime is negigible, almost non-existant. We need to protest the "mahogany mobs" whose first intention is to beat random innocent whites senseless, even unto death. Or play "knockout king" with whites as the targets.

It's bad enough that public school standards and discipline have been destroyed, that standards for law enforcement, firefighters, university, most jobs, and on and on have been lowered. It's bad enough that productive whites in the suburbs pay for the parasites in the inner cities even as they destroy those cities. It's bad enough that they are then given section 8 vouchers so they can bring the "diversity" of their crime, vandalism, parasitism, and general worthlessness to the neighborhoods of those working whites already supporting the, through taxes, until their presence reaches a tipping point and the whites flee even further into the hinterland.

If that's not enough for you, surely the disproportionate murder and rape statistics of whites-it might be your son or daughter next-should make whites take action in gathering as a group to say we will no longer be the willing victims or the penned cattle for others to slaughter and take our produce.

What will it take, if the Knoxvill college couple or the Tulsa elderly couple who were savagely beaten, tortured, raped, and murdered wasn't enough, on top of all the other black on white crime? Have we really degerated as a race to this?

Not quite the same frame of mind if I am following a person and I am packing heat. I suspect that if she had known Zimmermann was armed, she would have been a damned bit sharper in her tone of voice.

That assumes that the police consider someone calling about a suspicious person [sic] to be most concerned about the caller killing that person. But that isn't normal. Usually if you are calling the police about a suspected perpetrator, they aren't worried about protecting the perp from you.

I don't know why you're stuck with this untenable position that an opinion that is not worded even closely to an order is an order, but apparently there's no convincing you otherwise. So let's wait for the trial.

I feel nothing untenable about it at all. I actually have the same opnion of where you are standing, honestly. I listened to the tape and I thought it was quite clear. He was not supposed to follow Trayvon.

If you want an example of someone ignoring a clear and articulately worded order listen to the Joe Horn 911 call. The operator tells him repeatedly not to go outside and Horn argues with him, saying the "laws have changed in this country." He shot two men in the back and a Texas grand jury refused to indict.

'People who are conservatives, & have leftists working for them, should begin the process of finding a way to fire them.. There's more than one non-violent way to turn up the heat. If they want division, let's start giving it to them & making it cost them something. If you see an Obama bumper sticker on their car, refuse to sell them anything or to serve them. Just don't tell them why, because you don't have to. "
- comment on Fox News's story that Zimmerman was being arrested.
[Link: plus.google.com...]

The fact that Corey bypassed the Grand Jury route says something about her.. that she didn't feel intimidated to hide behind the GJ's decision. Then again, she may have had a lack of confidence in the Florida GJ.

That assumes that the police consider someone calling about a suspicious person [sic] to be most concerned about the caller killing that person. But that isn't normal. Usually if you are calling the police about a suspected perpetrator, they aren't worried about protecting the perp from you.

People in LE get real, real agitated about armed civilians trying to play cop. I have relatives and a father retired from LE and they do not like armed civvies following "suspects" around with no badge, arrest powers or training. If the dispatcher knew that Zimmerman was packing, the comments would have been, ahem, entertaining to say the least.

This context is nothing like the context of someone calling 911 for emergency assistance.

Again, Zimmerman called the police non-emergency number, not 911. The operator probably was the same for both numbers and these may seem like nit picky details but repeating false information gives it inertia.

If you want an example of someone ignoring a clear and articulately worded order listen to the Joe Horn 911 call. The operator tells him repeatedly not to go outside and Horn argues with him, saying the "laws have changed in this country." He shot two men in the back and a Texas grand jury refused to indict.

[Embedded content]

True. I still firmly believe that the 911 tape will be used to trash any SYG defense, since SYG doesn't mean chase and shoot.

Checked a couple more, and they've also unfollowed all the other stalker accounts. Obviously they think this is a red flag to Twitter and they're scurrying around trying to avoid getting identified as belonging to this coordinated smear campaign.

I think it's pretty awesome that Twitter stepped in like this. I'd love to know who to thank, but it's a surprise to me too.

Again, Zimmerman called the police non-emergency number, not 911. The operator probably was the same for both numbers and these may seem like nit picky details but repeating false information gives it inertia.

In my experience, non-emergency numbers take me to an actual police officer on the other end of the line (rather than an emergency dispatcher). Such officer might well have the legal power to tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, rather than to say it was not necessary.

She's a Republican known for her tough stance against crime and the number of cases she's taken to trial.

No, she's a hack. Republicans are not necessarily conservative and Republicans have a strong tendency to cave into the pressures of political correctness. I heard her statement and what stood out to me was that she mentioned that their office took the case not simply to "investigate" whether or not a crime took place (which is the job of a special prosecutor), but to "Seek Justice for Trayvon". She basically stated that her job was not to seek the truth, but to find a way to seek "Justice for Trayvon". First name. Her words.

Her job was to investigate the facts and then make a determination as to whether or not Mr. Zimmerman was guilty of some crime or whether or not this was a justifiable homicide. Her own words indicated that she had no interest in the truth, but in getting the desired result.

There is no way on earth that they can legitimately convict Zimmerman of second degree murder. If he had murdered Miller then there wouldn't have been serious wounds to the back of his head and there would not have been a witness who had indicated that Miller was on top of Zimmerman and pounding his head on the concrete before the shot rang out. This is a clear case of justifiable homicide. The police and the county prosecutors, despite media and political pressure, made the decision NOT to prosecute him even for negligent homicide or involuntary manslaughter, yet this politically appointed hack looked at the same evidence and listened to the cries for "JUSTICE" from the president on down and decided the safest course of action was to charge Zimmerman with Murder. Frankly if she had charged Zimmerman with involuntary manslaughter, then the riots would have started today. The riots will now be postponed until the Judge throws the case out on a demurr or at the preliminary hearing, or if that doesn't happen, then after Zimmerman is acquitted.

All this hack did was to pass the buck. She knows he's innocent, but she knows that her life would have been in danger had she failed to bring this charge.

'People who are conservatives, & have leftists working for them, should begin the process of finding a way to fire them.. There's more than one non-violent way to turn up the heat. If they want division, let's start giving it to them & making it cost them something. If you see an Obama bumper sticker on their car, refuse to sell them anything or to serve them. Just don't tell them why, because you don't have to. "
- comment on Fox News's story that Zimmerman was being arrested.
[Link: plus.google.com...]

It must be depressing as hell to live in a world where you loathe your fellow Americans that much.

I don't know why you're stuck with this untenable position that an opinion that is not worded even closely to an order is an order, but apparently there's no convincing you otherwise. So let's wait for the trial.

I think there's a difference in perception here. To some people including myself it sounds like an order albeit with some 'understatement'. If it were said to me by a policeman or emergency service operator I'd take it as an order.

The suggestion supposedly refuted in that article is that it meant "Trayvon Benjamin". However, it seems mighty unlikely this guy would go on myspace *after* the killing and register this account and put his photo there. And for some reason these journos did not look up the date of the creation of the account.

Checked a couple more, and they've also unfollowed all the other stalker accounts. Obviously they think this is a red flag to Twitter and they're scurrying around trying to avoid getting identified as belonging to this coordinated smear campaign.

I think it's pretty awesome that Twitter stepped in like this. I'd love to know who to thank, but it's a surprise to me too.

Now he's suddenly Hispanic again! Surprised they didn't call him a Democrat.

The trends in coverage have been interesting to watch. I'm seeing more references describing his race as "white father, hispanic mother" instead of white or white hispanic. I also noticed that the press stopped using Zimmermans old mug shot as much and switched to the smiling photo until today when most have gone back to the mugshot.

In my experience, non-emergency numbers take me to an actual police officer on the other end of the line (rather than an emergency dispatcher). Such officer might well have the legal power to tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, rather than to say it was not necessary.

Or maybe not. I don't know shit about law.

Which isn't my argument. I conceded that it's likely the same operator, in my experience one call center handles both non-emergency and 911, the two numbers are there to help prioritize during high volume. I'm simply pointing out that when we don't correct the repetition of erroneous details they develop a patina of actual fact.

A DA seeking justice for a homicide victim, what a terrible, terrible person. The Freepers are such cretins stuck in the 19th century. They cry about Zimmerman being charged being a lynching but I have to say reading what I read from them that they would be supporters of real lynchings. Zimmerman isn't being lynched. He's being charged with a crime. And if the Freepers don't like that, they can go fuck themselves.

I feel nothing untenable about it at all. I actually have the same opnion of where you are standing, honestly. I listened to the tape and I thought it was quite clear. He was not supposed to follow Trayvon.

And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".

The trends in coverage have been interesting to watch. I'm seeing more references describing his race as "white father, hispanic mother" instead of white or white hispanic. I also noticed that the press stopped using Zimmermans old mug shot as much and switched to the smiling photo until today when most have gone back to the mugshot.

I think there's a difference in perception here. To some people including myself it sounds like an order albeit with some 'understatement'. If it were said to me by a policeman or emergency service operator I'd take it as an order.

Yes. That may simply be my experience from the military here, since if an NCO or officer said something couched that way I knew it was still an order.

The trends in coverage have been interesting to watch. I'm seeing more references describing his race as "white father, hispanic mother" instead of white or white hispanic. I also noticed that the press stopped using Zimmermans old mug shot as much and switched to the smiling photo until today when most have gone back to the mugshot.

Fox News had the "younger Trayvon/GZ mugshot" yesterday. It may be more chaotic than it seems.

And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".

So you are ignoring the testimony of the young woman who was speaking with Trayvon on the phone when Zimmerman confronted him?

In my experience, non-emergency numbers take me to an actual police officer on the other end of the line (rather than an emergency dispatcher). Such officer might well have the legal power to tell Zimmerman not to follow Martin, rather than to say it was not necessary.

Or maybe not. I don't know shit about law.

Any just about any locality or county that's bigger than Mayberry that I'm aware of, calling the cops gets you a public safety dispatcher, not a field officer. Most dispatchers in departments larger than a handful of employees may not even be considered sworn peace officers, just basically call takers.

Working in the alarm business as a central station dispatcher gives me a bit of insight on this particular issue.

And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".

Didn't Zimmerman also at first tell the dispatcher that he'd meet the cops at a certain place, but then changed his mind and asked if the cop could call him when the cop got there? Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?

Freepers would be entertaining if they weren't so batshit crazy. Honestly, reading those posts is the redneck equivalent of watching stormfronts* come together and form a tornado. In this case, the tornado is unfortunately a stand-in for a mob of racist knuckle draggers.

Reading stuff like that makes me wonder why we haven't seen more of an uptick in hate crimes since Obama got elected.

Any just about any locality or county that's bigger than Mayberry that I'm aware of, calling the cops gets you a public safety dispatcher, not a field officer. Most dispatchers in departments larger than a handful of employees may not even be considered sworn peace officers, just basically call takers.

Working in the alarm business as a central station dispatcher gives me a bit of insight on this particular issue.

Didn't Zimmerman also at first tell the dispatcher that he'd meet the cops at a certain place, but then changed his mind and asked if the cop could call him when the cop got there? Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?

According to his (ex) lawyers the dispatcher asked him for the nearest house address. He checked the address and was headed back to his truck.

What a whiny little bitch. Other bands and artists that have been inducted have had fights and squabbles between them and they got their personal shit together long enough to accept the induction then go back to hating each other.

For weeks now, I've been told the same thing by GZ's defenders: "Wait and see." Even as recently as yesterday, we were assured there was evidence that hadn't come out yet that would exonerate him, but we had to wait until the case was closed before we'd see it.

Now that he's being charged, what do we hear? "All the evidence is there to prove justifiable homicide! We can prove it!"

He didn't have any powder burns? Wow. That would mean he got shot from a distance, wouldn't it?

Kinda puts the lie to the whole epic fight to the death scenario.

To my knowledge no autopsy report has been released. The only person who has made any comment on the condition of the body is the Funeral Director who probably isn't qualified to make that determination. Especially if Trayvon was wearing a couple layers of clothing. I am no CSI, so I will let the experts give us the info as the trial unfolds.

And immediately after he is told that "they don't need for him to do that" he says OK, and very likely does stop following Martin.
One minute later in the conversation Zimmerman says he does not know where "the kid is".

Why put "the kid is" in quotation marks when it doesn't appear anywhere in the call transcript? He never specifically says he lost contact, he say's "he ran" after answering that his name is George.

Didn't Zimmerman also at first tell the dispatcher that he'd meet the cops at a certain place, but then changed his mind and asked if the cop could call him when the cop got there? Why wouldn't he just go to the prearranged meeting place instead of doing...? what?...going out looking for Trayvon?

Daily Kos did a pretty good time line. Zimmerman seems to want them to call him when they got to the scene as he had no intention of remaining there. Remember the phase Zimmerman used "They always get away!" That comment will really be featured prominently at trial, I'm thinking.

The painter? According to Twitter the warning is for north of Aurora and the DIA area. I'm sure we'll be fine. However, this usually indicates more severe storms building up as this front moves east. Next stop, Kansas.

DENVER (CBS4)- A tornado warning was issued for northwestern Arapahoe County in northeast Colorado, western Adams County in northeast Colorado and eastern Denver County in northeast Colorado until 5:30 p.m. Wednesday. At 5:05 p.m. the public reported a tornado near 38th and Tower Road about six miles north of Aurora or ten miles east of Denver. ...

I'd like to give a purely speculative example of evidence we don't know that would easily support the depravity charge.

What if Martin were shot in the back?

I've speculated on that point before. He was shot with a 9mm at very close to point blank range. Even hollowpoints at that range should go through, leaving an exit wound. One of the reasons I've been anticipating seeing the autopsy report was to see if there was a second (exit) wound and what the data regarding the two wounds showed.

Another possibility is if it is shown that Zimmerman was on top and in control. How? If the bullet was found tunneled into the grass on which Martin lay it would tend to support this position.

Note that both those are speculation. I'm presenting them as examples, only, of evidence we DO NOT HAVE that would give support for "depravity".

How? The funeral director would say so? I trust him to say that he doesn't seen signs that he'd normally see, but I'm not about to put faith in his knowledge of ballistics as they pertain to murders unless I see some credentials.

How? The funeral director would say so? I trust him to say that he doesn't seen signs that he'd normally see, but I'm not about to put faith in his knowledge of ballistics as they pertain to murders unless I see some credentials.

If the family identified the body, it would be probable that they would want to know the cause of death, even if unofficially. I know I would if it happened to my direct relative.

The funeral director for Trayvon stated that he had one bullet wound in the chest with no exit wound. I'm assuming since death happened so fast that it was one of those nasty bullets that explode and it was in the heart.

If the family identified the body, it would be probable that they would want to know the cause of death, even if unofficially. I know I would if it happened to my direct relative.

And all they'd be told is "gunshot." The specifics of it would be confidential, particularly if there was an on-going investigation. If the coroner didn't offer the information, then there would be no way for them to obtain it until the investigation concluded.

2nd Degree murder? Sure, that's not a political statement.
Clearly, they're hoping for a manslaughter plea.
Here's something to remember: When standing over a dead man with a gun in your hand, don't say anything to anyone who isn't your lawyer. Ever. Don't even ask for a glass of water.
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I bet what some on the law enforcement/prosecution end of this are really hoping for is a nice quiet jailhouse suicide. Then everyone is safe.
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The probability of Zimmerman getting convicted of second-degree murder under Florida law is remote, which makes the State Attorney's decision to proceed all the more craven and politically-calculated. The popularly-elected State Attorney is merely trying to shield herself (and possibly the governor who appointed her to this particular case) from the political fallout. It is a disgusting corruption of the justice system.
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If they actually go to court on this charge, I could see the defense asking for and getting a summary judgement after the prosecution rests. There is just no evidence to support such a charge.
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A great day for race hustlers and their supporters.
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You think what Zimmerman did meets the Florida's definition of second degree murder, Mr. VerBruggen? Isn't this what you've wanted all along?
This has been a travesty of justice and now we hear the same old mouths of Sharpton and others say this isn't about "race". I wonder how they would've reacted if Zimmerman was charged with nothing.

What a whiny little bitch. Other bands and artists that have been inducted have had fights and squabbles between them and they got their personal shit together long enough to accept the induction then go back to hating each other.

I call BULL $HIT…he was tried in the media and I guarantee holder and obummer have their hands in this….what a travesty
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Duh. Never saw that coming. Of course he will be charged with a crime for simply defending himself. That ‘special’ prosecutor wants to make a name for herself and the left wants to make defending yourself illegal.

If you are forced to defend yourself, don’t call the cops. Just do what you need to do and leave.
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Daily Kos did a pretty good time line. Zimmerman seems to want them to call him when they got to the scene as he had no intention of remaining there. Remember the phase Zimmerman used "They always get away!" That comment will really be featured prominently at trial, I'm thinking.

Yes. And apparently my memory was correct thanks to the transcript posted by GDF.

Now that Zimmerman has been charged, I hope more attention is placed on the Sandford Police Department. There has been quite a few stories about police departments throughout the country lately. I think laws written in response to 9/11 may have had an unintended consequence on our police departments throughout the nation. Maybe we need to re-evaluate them.

Medical records and the autopsy report for Trayvon will shed a lot of light on things.

I believe those will ultimately be what the charges will hinge upon. If it can be shown that Trayvon was shot while Zimmerman was straddling him, or that any injuries that Zimmerman sustained were inconsistent with his story or in no way life-threatening, then it ceases being a "self-defense" case.

Anything can be unclear to a man who doesn't want to understand that the government would only press for second degree murder if it felt it had a lot of evidence and thus didn't need to settle for manslaughter.

Well to me, this is the justice we've been looking for, an arrest. Now its up to the rule of law of our country. Prosecution and defense. As it goes.

It is random in our country what the media picks up on. There's a ton of non-reported same situations vs. the story with the media frenzy. Its not really fair. (ask any other parent of a murdered kid who hasn't been in the paper except for the first day) But, this one was picked up, and I count it as a representative of the ones not reported on.

What freaks me out is the hate, the absolute hate, by people in this country. If it was a different death, picked up and hyped by the media, these people's responses would be mirror opposite. And that shows their tribalism/racism.

I believe those will ultimately be what the charges will hinge upon. If it can be shown that Trayvon was shot while Zimmerman was straddling him, or that any injuries that Zimmerman sustained were inconsistent with his story or in no way life-threatening, then it ceases being a "self-defense" case.

Exactly. The physical evidence -- the clothes that both of them were wearing, the autopsy report for Trayvon, the medical reports for Zimmerman, etc. will all make the most difference, I think.

Personally, I think that as long as the autopsy was properly done, that will tell the most. Evidence of a fight/struggle, the angle of the entrance and exit wounds, etc. would all be documented, I think. If the condition of Trayvon's body doesn't match up with whatever Zimmerman claims happened, then GZ is toast.

The V-22, at least to me belongs in the same category as the F-22 and the F-35. Costly boondoggles.

They were there for a joint exercise with the Moroccans, which we do yearly. We are there to help the readiness of a close allies under-equipped military, not to have our own crap decide to fuck up and kill people.

From the transcript:
Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

Okay, but that statement that he doesn't want to give out his address indicates that he thinks the kid might still be close enough to overhear. Why would he be concerned about that if the kid ran off and he wasn't still following him? There's an inconsistency in both that and the distance between the nearest street where his car could have been parked and where the killing took place. If his story is that he was attacked as he returned to his car, why did the killing take place on the footpath behind the homes? Here's a map of the area, the shooting took place at (F).

Like most of you, I feel that the shooting of Trayvon Martin was irresponsible, unwarranted, and (given what I know) criminal. There's no excuse for patrolling your street in a residential area with a gun, looking for trouble. George Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged from the beginning; even if it was established that Mr. Martin threw a few punches at him. Martin was being followed and harassed and was plausibly scared and defensive. A trial is the best way we have to weed out the facts.

That being said, I think Angela Corey is full of crap when she says "we do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition."

I strongly disagree. Yes, there would have been no further looking into this case/no investigation. Once the proper investigation has been performed, the decision to prosecute or not to prosecute depends on the results of this investigation, not on petitions from anyone.

So while we don't know the behind-the-scenes game, prima facie there is no reason to dismiss Corey's statement.

The V-22, at least to me belongs in the same category as the F-22 and the F-35. Costly boondoggles.

They were there for a joint exercise with the Moroccans, which we do yearly. We are there to help the readiness of a close allies under-equipped military, not to have our own crap decide to fuck up and kill people.

Disagree.

The big thing about the Osprey is that it is a game-changer at the tactical logistics level. As to 'at an exercise', I hated it when training accidents killed people, but it does happen. Also, as of right now we don't know if it was aircraft or pilot (or external circumstances) that caused the crash.

As to the F-22 and F-35, I'm mixed. I lean to agreement with the f-22 but not the f-35. At the same time I get peeved when all the blame lands on the military for cost overruns instead of congressional acts like changing the numbers order and delaying procurement timelines and adding/changing requirements...

fwiw, the F-22 is an outstanding fighter, able to outfight six to ten modern aircraft in anyone else's inventory. There are major advantages to this. The downside is it is subject to what I call the superman syndrome. Superman has total local superiority, but he cannot be everywhere. And where he is not, the normal bad guys are good enough. When our F-22 has 6:1 superiority but is outnumbered 12:1 because of the cost restraints, we have a problem.

The f-35 is not quite as good as the F-22, but it's significantly less expensive. And, it turns out, much more flexible in operational design. That last is partly intentional, partly serendipitous because of the intent. That is, it was intended to have three models, one of which was the jump-jet for the marines. The need to have that much flexibility actually increased other operational flexibility. I have a sneaking suspicion the F-35 is going to gain a reputation - a good one - due to the variations it can handle.

Okay, but that statement that he doesn't want to give out his address indicates that he thinks the kid might still be close enough to overhear. Why would he be concerned about that if the kid ran off and he wasn't still following him? There's an inconsistency in both that and the distance between the nearest street where his car could have been parked and where the killing took place. If his story is that he was attacked as he returned to his car, why did the killing take place on the footpath behind the homes? Here's a map of the area, the shooting took place at (F).

I don't know how the data in that map (where the 911 call ended for example) comes from.

Like most of you, I feel that the shooting of Trayvon Martin was irresponsible, unwarranted, and (given what I know) criminal. There's no excuse for patrolling your street in a residential area with a gun, looking for trouble. George Zimmerman should have been arrested and charged from the beginning; even if it was established that Mr. Martin threw a few punches at him. Martin was being followed and harassed and was plausibly scared and defensive. A trial is the best way we have to weed out the facts.

That being said, I think Angela Corey is full of crap when she says "we do not prosecute by public pressure or by petition."

Why hasn’t Congress impeached President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder? Rep. Todd Akin says it’s simply a lack of votes. But he says that may change eventually.

“That’s a good question,” Akin told a constituent on Tuesday who asked just that. “I can’t speak for the other 400 and some congressmen, but I believe when they take a look at impeachment the question is do you have the votes to do it and, if you do it, it goes to the Senate, what’s going to happen with Harry Reid?”

Here's a thought-- how about having actual grounds for impeachment first? Moron.

Oh, its the double whammy. Black President, black Atty General. They really lost their shit over Holder. Shows every single day.

Not only that, but reading through the RWNJ blogs today for comments about Zimmerman, I noticed quite a few that are convinced that Barack Obama has a super secret all black security force for himself and that the Secret Service agents we see around him of different races are all a ruse.

These same people will also swear up and down that they're not racists. It's mind-blowing.

Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:

The F-35 is know having cost overruns at least as bad as the F-22. Not only that, but the Stealth it does have comes at the price of being generally less useful than its competitors overseas, two of which would make better alternatives (JAS-39 for Ground Based, Rafale for Naval Based).

When one tries to build a fighter that can do anything, we end up with a useless plane that can do none of the jobs well. Cancel, and negotiate with France and Sweden for buying the rights to build those two here.

Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:

Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:

Oh man! Whoever it was at Twitter who decided to put a stop to that little organized ring of Diary of Daedalus stalkers, they're not kidding around. They're still blocking accounts, and now they're getting to the older ones:

"This nation needs to return to our foundation of biblical principals being taught in schools, versus government trying to educate folks on how to plan a family," Houston City Councilwoman Helena Brown said.

Brown's remarks surprised the city's health department, which offers the family planning services to low-income women and doesn't involve abortion.

I've never seen Twitter do anything like this before. As far as I know, it's unprecedented - they usually take a very hands-off approach and it's difficult to get them to take action. But these stalker morons really were harassing a LOT of people, and acting like complete assholes. Maybe somebody higher up at Twitter noticed what was going on and didn't like it - but I'm just speculating. I don't know.

But I'm enjoying it greatly, as the target of their lame-brained organized smear campaign.

The F-35 is know having cost overruns at least as bad as the F-22. Not only that, but the Stealth it does have comes at the price of being generally less useful than its competitors overseas, two of which would make better alternatives (JAS-39 for Ground Based, Rafale for Naval Based).

When one tries to build a fighter that can do anything, we end up with a useless plane that can do none of the jobs well. Cancel, and negotiate with France and Sweden for buying the rights to build those two here.

Anyone else have some points about the F-22 and F-35?

On what basis are you considering it less useful than the JAS-39 or the Rafale?

I've never seen Twitter do anything like this before. As far as I know, it's unprecedented - they usually take a very hands-off approach and it's difficult to get them to take action. But these stalker morons really were harassing a LOT of people, and acting like complete assholes. Maybe somebody higher up at Twitter noticed what was going on and didn't like it - but I'm just speculating. I don't know.

But I'm enjoying it greatly, as the target of their lame-brained organized smear campaign.

I know I've complained several times to no avail. Let's hope they're finally taking action that lasts.

In trying to portray his client in as sympathetic terms as possible, Zimmerman’s new attorney Mark O’Mara said this evening that Zimmerman is “troubled by everything that has happened.” O’Mara added, “Truly, it must be frightening to not be able to not be able to go into a 7/11 or into a store and literally to be in fact a prisoner wherever he was.”

You know what else sucks? Walking home from a 7-11 with Skittles and a can of iced tea and getting murdered.

It's a slower plane lacking the range and ordinance, not to mention the fact that upkeep (we already know how the upkeep will be off of the F-22) that it will require a great deal of maintenance for every hour in the air.

Not only that, but the type of stealth here ain't perfect. There are other ways to detect an aircraft rather than radar or IR.

Also, the ballooning costs are aggravating, as it now costs $200 million a pop. We need to be fiscally responsible, and the DoD is a bloated and corrupt. Probably the most corrupt department in the US Government.

Kill the F-35, and find a replacement that won't cause the US to go bankrupt.

I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off

I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off

You think it's dead for good? Sometimes you have to pull out the q-tips. Maybe not.

I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off

I can wake you up..I am so pissed off I can't stand it.. I dropped a 500 dollar cell phone into the toilet full of piss..Should have heard the scream.
I pulled it out and of course had to wash it off..It's full of pee water..What are you going to do? I'm cleaning it going this can't be good...
I have the hair blower drying a hopelessly dead cell. I am so pissed off

Oh and put it in a bag of rice (overnight, at least). Soaks up the moisture.

The F-35 is know having cost overruns at least as bad as the F-22. Not only that, but the Stealth it does have comes at the price of being generally less useful than its competitors overseas, two of which would make better alternatives (JAS-39 for Ground Based, Rafale for Naval Based).

When one tries to build a fighter that can do anything, we end up with a useless plane that can do none of the jobs well. Cancel, and negotiate with France and Sweden for buying the rights to build those two here.

Anyone else have some points of the F-22 and F-35?

I'll jump in. A friend is working on the survivability of the F-35 in combat. He tells me that the F-35 has fuel lines located inside the wings that can only be serviced for leaks by taking off the skin of the wings. A small leak will take many hours to be repaired. And you can't fly a plane which has a fuel leak!

Also, the F-35 engine by itself is too large to fit inside a Carrier Delivery (COD) plane to transport to an aircraft carrier. Plus, aircraft carriers, as large as they are, do not have room to store a couple of dozen spare engines.

Oh and put it in a bag of rice (overnight, at least). Soaks up the moisture.

Thanks..I heard that.. I blew it, I pulled it out of the toilet and cleaned it off under the sink knowing full well I was killing it but after all it was in a bowl of piss, What are you going to do?
I am so pissed off

I think the media needs to point out that Bobby Seale the original black panther party leader is not apart of this group. This ground has no real membership, they are a strawman and its dishonest to bring them up.

Thanks..I heard that.. I blew it, I pulled it out of the toilet and cleaned it off under the sink knowing full well I was killing it but after all it was in a bowl of piss, What are you going to do?
I am so pissed off

As someone who spent the first 25 years of my life in TX, and the last 20 years in Cali, all I can say is Thank God for FL. It makes me feel like my home and adopted states are a little less screwed up, and no longer have the dubious distinction of being America's most bizarre state.

I think the media needs to point out that Bobby Seale the original black panther party leader is not apart of this group. This ground has no real membership, they are a strawman and its dishonest to bring them up.

It's so much worse than that..This is the 2nd company Cell I have killed this year..It's only April. Now I'll have to talk to security and sign paperwork agreeing I'm a f*ck up.
I screamed so loud and pissed off a Neighbor lady came knocking thinking something was wrong

Just got in - have been almost living in the main kitchen at school, prepping each morning and night for the A La Minute Vegetarian station/line. That said, haven't been around LGF much but just wanted to say, regarding Zimmerman... IT'S ABOUT FRAKKEN TIME!

If the Sanford Police had charged him with manslaughter that night, it would have not made the National News and Zimmerman would've been able to plead down to a lesser crime, spend a year or two in jail and be free.
But then his Dad and/or the NRA influenced AG conspired to to let him walk away hiding behind SYG, which created the national outrage which ends with Zimmerman getting the Murder 2 charge, and now he's probably going to plead down to manslaughter and serve 10 years or more.

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