This has already been argued to death in the previous thread, but I am extremely happy to see the number of people and organizations who have stepped up to assist--even if not all plans of action are ultimately going to be used. As of my post, four boys have been evacuated from the cave, with more to come.

I hope that things continue to go well enough to not have to use Elon's sub, but I still am grateful to see that not everything that happens is as dreary as world/national news often is!

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

I'm not sure the pinch point would have an issue with the length, and I'm sure they engineered it so the circumference fit through. Though I would have concerns with a rigid long tube navigating in a tight cave. However I'd also have to assume he's gotten the clearance dimensions he needs from a team on the ground.

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

You're a cynic.

The fact is that for the people suffering from Musk-derangement-syndrome, this is just another reason to hate Musk, it's only a PR positive for the people who already approved of him, or don't much care.

"Elon Musk built.." Riiiiight. He personally built it. Not some real engineers, who happen to be his employees, and might actually know how to build something like this. But Elon himself. Personal cult much.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

Even then it will have some serious resistance, that might be just as much a problem, especially if there are currents in the water (because for ex. water influx).

"Elon Musk built.." Riiiiight. He personally built it. Not some real engineers, who happen to be his employees, and might actually know how to build something like this. But Elon himself. Personal cult much.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

Headlines have to be short in order to fit on our home page and on other platforms where they might appear. If I write "A team of SpaceX engineers led by Elon Musk..." I've already used up more than half my character allotment without getting to what the actual story is about. And people understand the concept of using a team's leader as a stand-in for the team as a whole.

And as it says in one of the captions, the plan is to add weights to achieve neutral buoyancy.

I can appreciate what Musk is doing, but wow! If I was one of those kids, you'd have a hard time convincing me to climb in that thing. I'm not terribly claustrophobic. but something like that might reach the tipping point for me.

Perhaps the ordeal of being in a dark cave with diminishing oxygen and the prospect of many more of the same might change my mind.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

I don't think so. It is totally in accordance with how Elon Musk is as a person. A person just looking for positive attention probably would not want to do this, because if the device was used and it failed it would be a PR nightmare. There is a reason CEOs stay away from stuff like this. It is too much risk.

But you see with Elon Musk that he doesn't seem to care much about those sorts of risks. He does plenty of stuff that would obviously create negative PR or risk a bad backlash.

I think he is just a guy who has a passionate problem for solving tricky engineer problems with benefits to humanity.

I don't think that means Elon Musk is a saint. While caring about humanity, he doesn't always seem to be that nice to his own employees. Demanding perhaps a bit too much dedication. I think he struggles with understanding that everybody else can't be as crazy driven and passionate as him all the time.

Isn't the actual rescuing happening right now with inflated bladders to keep the kids safe with divers push/pulling them out?

Why is this getting more press than a bunch of guys in a LA pool testing something when the actual rescue is ACTIVELY happening?

I thought they've already gotten 4 kids out and are proceeding?

They're diving out with the kids swimming. That's the plan unless they can't physically do it. Musk is just trying to provide another option if all else fails. More than likely it won't even get there in time, even if it would be useful (which is certainly not a given).

Call me a cynic but it feels a lot like Musk has jumped on this as a way to undo some of the media-perception damage his recent Tesla-related tantrum/media-feud has done.

You must not be an engineer. When an engineer sees a problem they can't help thinking of ways to solve it. Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones. Let's not be cynical about a person trying to help in a really bad situation.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

I believe Elon said on twitter you can simply put rocks in it to until it's heavy enough to be maneuverable. In spite of being partially out of rocket parts, this is not exactly rocket science.

"Elon Musk built.." Riiiiight. He personally built it. Not some real engineers, who happen to be his employees, and might actually know how to build something like this. But Elon himself. Personal cult much.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

Right, that's why ballast tanks exist in submarines. If I know that, not having any engineering background in this sort of thing, I'm sure the ones actually working on this are aware of it.

Isn't the actual rescuing happening right now with inflated bladders to keep the kids safe with divers push/pulling them out?

Why is this getting more press than a bunch of guys in a LA pool testing something when the actual rescue is ACTIVELY happening?

I thought they've already gotten 4 kids out and are proceeding?

They're diving out with the kids swimming. That's the plan unless they can't physically do it. Musk is just trying to provide another option if all else fails. More than likely it won't even get there in time, even if it would be useful (which is certainly not a given).

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

I believe Elon said on twitter you can simply put rocks in it to until it's heavy enough to be maneuverable. In spite of being partially out of rocket parts, this is not exactly rocket science.

Agreed. It's made out of rocket parts because, oddly enough, SpaceX engineers seem to have them lying around and they've already been deigned and tested to be pretty good at extreme conditions.

Under normal circumstances in an international tragedy like this the President of the United States would have offered the full resources of the United States government to find and save the children. Unfortunately, those resources are too busy losing children that he has no interest in saving.

Isn't the actual rescuing happening right now with inflated bladders to keep the kids safe with divers push/pulling them out?

Why is this getting more press than a bunch of guys in a LA pool testing something when the actual rescue is ACTIVELY happening?

I thought they've already gotten 4 kids out and are proceeding?

They're diving out with the kids swimming. That's the plan unless they can't physically do it. Musk is just trying to provide another option if all else fails. More than likely it won't even get there in time, even if it would be useful (which is certainly not a given).

Isn't the actual rescuing happening right now with inflated bladders to keep the kids safe with divers push/pulling them out?

Why is this getting more press than a bunch of guys in a LA pool testing something when the actual rescue is ACTIVELY happening?

I thought they've already gotten 4 kids out and are proceeding?

They're diving out with the kids swimming. That's the plan unless they can't physically do it. Musk is just trying to provide another option if all else fails. More than likely it won't even get there in time, even if it would be useful (which is certainly not a given).

Edit: I'm not sure why I'm fed up with people shitting on someone who has done more with their life than they will ever do with theirs but I am. Sorry.

That's a personal attack. Feel better?

It would only be a personal attack if you were the only one guilty of exhibiting such rank insecurity, but even here in this thread, there are multiple people who can't stand the idea of someone actually taking action towards goals they consider important, instead of sitting at their computer and bitching on the internet.

The fact that you perceived it as a personal attack tells me that on some subconscious level, you understand how pathetic such behavior is.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

Which is a total non issue. It would have used scuba weights to ballast the "sub" to be neutrally buoyant.

How do you think they are going to ensure the kids are neutrally buoyant? Yeah exactly the same way using scuba weights and (likely) a buoyancy compensator. Too little weight and the kid will float to the surface, too much and they will sink to the bottom. The ballasted weight on any object needs to exactly equal the displaced water for the object (any object) to be neutrally buoyant.

It turns out the SpaceX "sub" wasn't needed this time but if nothing else it shows the imagination and drive of the engineers at SpaceX. I see nothing fundamentally flawed with it and if they had more time who knows they might have used it.

The concept of using weights to provide neutral buoyancy to things which otherwise float was solved by divers in the 1950s.

Also, unless this tube is weighted _precisely_ for each person (individually) it is supposed to carry, it will be of no use, because it will either float to the water surface or sink to the bottom, but divers will not be able to actually use it to shove or pull it alongside themselves while swimming in the flooded caves.

If I were inclined to be charitable, I would point out that while this is certainly something to take into consideration, the fact that the tube is being tested in the real world by actual divers suggests that they've almost certainly already thought about...

"Elon Musk built.." Riiiiight. He personally built it. Not some real engineers, who happen to be his employees, and might actually know how to build something like this. But Elon himself. Personal cult much.

...why would I bother to be charitable? You're just another small, sad person who hates the idea that someone actually goes out there and pursues goals that they consider to be important.

Edit: I'm not sure why I'm fed up with people shitting on someone who has done more with their life than they will ever do with theirs but I am. Sorry.

That's a personal attack. Feel better?

It would only be a personal attack if you were the only one guilty of exhibiting such rank insecurity, but even here in this thread, there are multiple people who can't stand the idea of someone actually taking action towards goals they consider important, instead of sitting at their computer and bitching on the internet.

The fact that you perceived it as a personal attack tells me that on some subconscious level, you understand how pathetic such behavior is.

Oh!

You don't think I'm an individual human. That explains it.

The best I can do is apologize for upsetting you.

I'd much rather find a way to insult you because, whether you intended to or not, you hurt me.

I made my comment in good faith expressing honest sentiment (nor did I "shit" on anyone).