A little off-topic here, but I assume WIS pays licensing fees to either the NCAA, the schools in the game, the conferences or some combination thereof for the use of their names or likenesses in the game. That said, I find it hard to believe an entity such as the PAC-12 or Big 10 would allow itself to continue to be represented with an incorrect alignment of teams. (Not saying I favor realignment in the game, because I understand the headache it would create to try and keep pace with everything that's going on in the 'real world"...just thinking out loud). I also find it hard that a school like Nebraska, which fought to get out of one league and into another wouldn't strongly desire the game to mirror its real-life affiliation as it strives to create a new image and history in a new athletic league. Ditto for a school like FGCU who is portrayed at a lower division than they actually compete at in the modern day.

Like I said, from a programming and business standpoint, I totally understand why stability is in the best interest of the game. From a "real world" standpoint though, I can't imagine that some of the conferences and schools in the game wouldn't want the "real world" mirrored with regard to divisions and affiliations.

Posted by rednu on 4/1/2013 5:43:00 PM (view original):A little off-topic here, but I assume WIS pays licensing fees to either the NCAA, the schools in the game, the conferences or some combination thereof for the use of their names or likenesses in the game. That said, I find it hard to believe an entity such as the PAC-12 or Big 10 would allow itself to continue to be represented with an incorrect alignment of teams. (Not saying I favor realignment in the game, because I understand the headache it would create to try and keep pace with everything that's going on in the 'real world"...just thinking out loud). I also find it hard that a school like Nebraska, which fought to get out of one league and into another wouldn't strongly desire the game to mirror its real-life affiliation as it strives to create a new image and history in a new athletic league. Ditto for a school like FGCU who is portrayed at a lower division than they actually compete at in the modern day.

Like I said, from a programming and business standpoint, I totally understand why stability is in the best interest of the game. From a "real world" standpoint though, I can't imagine that some of the conferences and schools in the game wouldn't want the "real world" mirrored with regard to divisions and affiliations.

I'm guessing the real life schools have no idea this even exists probably...

it would almost appear to be easier if D1 consisted of 25 conferences with 14 teams each. 350 teams.
although with the conferences continual changing it would be outdated in a season or two.

Add Missouri and A&M to the SEC which puts them at 14.
Add Colorado and Utah to Pac 10 which gives them 14. Maybe even replace Fresno and Hawaii with BYU and Gonzaga.
Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers to Big Ten, minus Notre Dame leaves them at 14.
The new ACC without Maryland adds Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville for 14.
The two Big Easts are ugly with 22(?) teams. The New Big East 10 plus add Notre Dame, UConn, maybe Cincinnati or a South Florida.
Big 12 adds West Virginia, TCU and maybe teams like Memphis and Cincinnati from the old BigEast. I guess you could add some other old Big East teams, or the old Southwest Conferences teams like Houston, SMU plus Tulsa/Wichita State for the final spots.
I think the Atlantic 10 currently has 13? Sorry Temple but you're back with this group.

Then the other conferences could be somewhat combined. Maybe the Mountain West with the top of the West Coast. A few leftovers from there could trickle down to join the BigWest and western WAC teams.
Horizon and Summit? Get to know each other boys.

Posted by graff on 4/1/2013 2:39:00 AM (view original):I've gone through and re-read this thread and had responses for most of these posts, but in the end it's a waste of time. We're going to have to agree to disagree apparently.

It just sucks to see something with potential end up a hack job like it is.

I actually did an entire study on the average number of minutes played by real life NCAA starters vs. the amount of minutes played by WiS starters to show people, statistically, exactly how WiS is screwed up in this area, but posting it is pointless. Many seem to much rather enjoy the bliss of their ignorance or force themselves to suspend all concepts of reality and mold and shape themselves into this distorted WiS world until they can actually enjoy it.

You've got a game where height and positions DO NOT MATTER. That may be music to the ears of all the 5'8 computer programmer white guys out there, but it isn't based on ANYTHING resembling reality. I don't care how good your "LP" is, if you're 5'8 you're not posting up a guy who is 6'6. You're not even going to be able to receive a pass on the block. This is gameplay which can NEVER happen in real life.

You've got a game where Florida Gulf Coast is still D2. Notre Dame is in the Big 10. God only knows how many other incorrect teams/conferences there are. Is it the BIGGEST problem with the game? Far from it, but it just adds to the lack of realism. This is a part of the game which can NEVER happen in real life.

You've got a game where starters can only play 22-24 minutes a game unless you go slowdown/zone or they get too tired and play like crap, making 7-8 man rotations virtually impossible and forcing coaches to play 10 man rotations. Again I've got the data to back all this up. The fatigue/stamina system is jacked to crap and needs tweaked. Not thrown away. Not start over from scratch. Tweaked. As it is 99% of all coaches HAVE to play 10 man rotations. This is part of the game which can NEVER happen in real life (everybody having to have those types of rotations that is).

So no, I don't hate the game. This is my 4th go-round. I've tried it 3 times before and quit after 1 season each time because I just couldn't deal with it. We'll see if go #4 is any better, but judging by the tone of the forum responses I've gotten, probably not. So I'll probably be a 1 and done for the 4th time again.

Apparently some would rather stoop to calling me names or some weird attempt at looking at my WiS record (as if that means I understand the game of basketball or not) instead of just engaging in a dialogue with me about ways to improve the simulation so that's it's at least BASED on reality. Right now it isn't and I just gave 3 huge examples above (though there are more). If the game isn't going to be based on reality, then what's the point in even calling it basketball? It's all just a make believe numbers game with the word basketball in the title. Nothing more, nothing less. Could still be fun to play. Be my guest if that's all you want or what you enjoy. Just know that there ARE people like me out there who COULD enjoy this service if only it made some basketball sense.

I love how you refer to this game as a "hack job" just because the conferences aren't right...that has absolutely nothing to do with how good or bad the game is...nothing.

The problem with you is that you're "stuck" in your thinking, kvetching about how this, that, and the other aren't like/don't represent real life, rather than accepting and understanding this particular game's nuances. You can argue that this game isn't perfect, but IT IS the best damned college basketball game out there of all time period, and if you don't agree with this, name the best CBB game ever in your mind, and I'd be more than happy to play/try it, and critique it as necessary.

You will NEVER be successful or enjoy HD if you just keep "one and doning" with teams. God only knows the dreck you've recruited...did you ever figure that it's possible that you can't do X, Y, and Z in this game, because you simply don't have the talent built up, because you don't even give yourself the proper opportunity to learn, grow, and recruit within the game? You seem to just want instant gratification, and again, that's not the fault of the game, rather your closed mind...you want to pick up this damn thing, pay your $12.95 and start with Duke...not how it works dude.

And to your last paragraph...LOFL! You come in here with your 22-60 record, and a this game sucks/is unrealistic attitude, referencing a putz friend of yours who's never even played the game (and refuses to since the conferences aren't right...ltm) and you expect a guy like me to be cordial? Please...you get what you ask for, man...you enter a forum where 90+% of the guys who post here LOVE this game, many of whom have 2, 3, 6, 8, 10 teams and have been here for YEARS, and you're going to downtrod a game that you KNOW NOTHING about? That's not ballsy man, that's stupid...that's why I called you an idiot, because that's what you are...you want to ***** about this game because it isn't how you want it to be, instead of learning, playing, understading, asking questions, getting a mentor, etc, etc, etc. Trust me dude, I've played the villain before and I do it a lot better than you do, but my arguments aren't dumb. If WIS wants to squelch me for my comments here then so be it...you won't play because I was mean to you...fine...I'll pay them the $30 you did to play HD and keep banging seasons out like a porn star.

Alright, I've done some thinking on this, and I realized that the team I coach (Seattle in Tark) SHOULD be DI, but it's not. And, I'm fine with that and will be fine with that as long as I play the game. Look at my resume, it's simply not DI ready, and if I was whisked into DI at the end of the year, I'd get EATEN ALIVE. Not to mention, it's completely unfair to the guys who have close to DI resumes that I get to waltz over them into the big leagues.

And also, on graff's "points" don't complain about how you were treated here, you walk into a forum with not just HD users but the most dedicated, financially entrenched users who LOVE this game. It'd be like me walking on FOX News and declaring Obama best president ever then hoping they'd agree with me (change scenario to MSNBC and Bush if offended.)

I actually did an entire study on the average number of minutes played by real life NCAA starters vs. the amount of minutes played by WiS starters to show people, statistically, exactly how WiS is screwed up in this area, but posting it is pointless. Many seem to much rather enjoy the bliss of their ignorance or force themselves to suspend all concepts of reality and mold and shape themselves into this distorted WiS world until they can actually enjoy it.

Please, post the results of your "study". We have some pretty savvy mathematician types that cruise the board that I'm sure would love to check it out. I'm guessing the reasoning behind not posting the results lies more with a faulty study rather than feeling it would be pointless. If you have valid data from a legit study that exposes an actual flaw in the game, it will be treated fairly. I'm doubtful of the legitimacy though.

Why else would you draw attention to the fact that you have taken the time to do something but then not go through sharing the results (which I'm sure was the entire point of doing the study)?

p.s. I rewrote the entire HD engine to realign the conferences and fix all the outstanding bugs. But sharing it is pointless.

I don't think that people mind those who take shots at the game. Happens on these boards frequently, often by some of the biggest users. The major reason that graff was met with an increasingly chilly reception is that (a) he really didn't want to listen to anyone who understood the game and (b) he wasn't making a lot of logical sense.

Posted by Iguana1 on 4/1/2013 6:38:00 PM (view original):it would almost appear to be easier if D1 consisted of 25 conferences with 14 teams each. 350 teams.
although with the conferences continual changing it would be outdated in a season or two.

Add Missouri and A&M to the SEC which puts them at 14.
Add Colorado and Utah to Pac 10 which gives them 14. Maybe even replace Fresno and Hawaii with BYU and Gonzaga.
Nebraska, Maryland and Rutgers to Big Ten, minus Notre Dame leaves them at 14.
The new ACC without Maryland adds Pitt, Syracuse and Louisville for 14.
The two Big Easts are ugly with 22(?) teams. The New Big East 10 plus add Notre Dame, UConn, maybe Cincinnati or a South Florida.
Big 12 adds West Virginia, TCU and maybe teams like Memphis and Cincinnati from the old BigEast. I guess you could add some other old Big East teams, or the old Southwest Conferences teams like Houston, SMU plus Tulsa/Wichita State for the final spots.
I think the Atlantic 10 currently has 13? Sorry Temple but you're back with this group.

Then the other conferences could be somewhat combined. Maybe the Mountain West with the top of the West Coast. A few leftovers from there could trickle down to join the BigWest and western WAC teams.
Horizon and Summit? Get to know each other boys.

If the conferences were to be re-aligned, your idea makes a lot of sense.

Posted by furry_nipps on 3/26/2013 10:48:00 PM (view original):No, it would only work if they opened a new world. Imagine you are coaching in div II in a conf you loved, then get moved into div I where you are outmatched and don't want to be causing you to lose your job. Bad idea

someone explain to me what to do with the roster full of D 2 players on a team that suddenly finds itself in D 1? Laugh at them as they get pummeled by D 1 talent? How about D 1 teams getting relegated to D 2? If I could find one of those teams I imagine I could wrangle a D 2 championship out of a roster of D 1 players...

Posted by dacj501 on 4/2/2013 2:12:00 PM (view original):someone explain to me what to do with the roster full of D 2 players on a team that suddenly finds itself in D 1? Laugh at them as they get pummeled by D 1 talent? How about D 1 teams getting relegated to D 2? If I could find one of those teams I imagine I could wrangle a D 2 championship out of a roster of D 1 players...

Just a thought, but maybe it could well known that lets say in....3-4 seasons....these teams will move to this division. Teams who fit this mold could have their baseline prestige set quite a bit higher so they have a full recruiting cycle to get some real D1 players. There would be some stumbling blocks along the way for these coaches, but that's what happens when you jump to a higher level. Just a thought....feel free to critique.

Posted by dacj501 on 4/2/2013 2:12:00 PM (view original):someone explain to me what to do with the roster full of D 2 players on a team that suddenly finds itself in D 1? Laugh at them as they get pummeled by D 1 talent? How about D 1 teams getting relegated to D 2? If I could find one of those teams I imagine I could wrangle a D 2 championship out of a roster of D 1 players...

i think it could be done gracefully, the moving of teams, but its way too much effort. you'd have to have schools who move get "slated" to move, and then only do so with a sim coach - and the sim roster could be adjusted accordingly without unbalancing anything. i think that piece is manageable, actually, but its just one small piece of the whole.

i just dont think its worth it... the name on the school hardly matters. if carnegie mellon (my alma mater) decides to one day accept the ivy league invite (will never happen), and thus, has to have a d1 sports program, i couldnt care less if they dont get moved to d1 in HD. and only a small % of schools are one's alma mater or favorite school or similar, where it *might* mater, so this seems like something catering to a small group - seems to me, you'd have to be personally tied to the school, AND coaching them, to have a legit gripe - thats a very small part of the HD population. school X who you dont coach or give a **** about, being in the wrong conference - to complain about that, it seems to me, is to complain for the sake of complaining.

if it does really bother people so much, i suggest you try to plan out a complete system to compensate (complete being the operative word) - how to rebalance from this point, just in terms of simply getting teams from conference A to conference B (including complexities like dac brings up), how to handle conference AND non conference schedules with conferences of various sizes, how to deal with adding and removing conferences (and how to deal with statistics appropriately), how to deal with conference championship and conference tournament counts (not only in the simple case, school moves from conf A to conf B in same division - but the complex case - see: big east), and so forth.

if you can get through the exercise of completely planning out that entire process, then maybe theres a valid gripe there. it seems like such a rats nest to me, its way too much effort for WIS to do that (design is a small part of the whole project) given the importance and host of other issues to work on. but anyway, i cant see trying to design out the whole thing without giving up, and admitting even coming up with a viable idea (not to mention implementing, testing, and deploying a solution) is just way too much work (and frustration) to make this worth it.