Imagine: Italy and Germany both beaten already, and France doing an England at their most bored and disinterested.

If I'd been a betting man, I'd have put something on Croatia to win the whole thing. But I'm not and I didn't, mainly because Eduardo got injured playing for Arsenal and it seemed too much to expect them to do so well without him. So I had no financial motive for enjoying them make monkeys out of Germany.

I think the Croatian manager Bilic might be the canniest chap in world football, for how he deploys his resources and what he gets out of them. They are skilful and calm from the backs to the fronts. When they were 2 up yesterday, they didn't go into their shells and just defend, but continued to attack. And even when Germany scored to make it 2-1 with about 15 minutes to go, Croatia still kept attacking. Exemplary.

What chance for the semi-finalists being Portugal, Spain, The Netherlands and Croatia? With Turkey as the dark horses, I like them too.

I am supporting the Netherlands (I love the way they turn defence into attack at the drop of an orange hat and their support is magnificent) and Spain because of their Liverpool players I was disappointed when Babel was injured and didn't make the Dutch squad.

Where I live there is a very large Polish community and it's strange to see the cars and vans normally flying the flag of St. George replaced by Polish flags although I don't think they'll be in the tournament much longer.

The French and Italian sides look tired already - maybe because of their players club commitments so it could be another shock winner following Greece last time and Croatia do fit the bill.

i liked the look of Russia at 28-1 but cannily a colleague actually laid the bet, which he won't cash in on I'm sure. For the first time in about 24 years I haven't put money on Spain who always let me down. As I'd like them to win, I hope my no-bet makes the difference. They were great in their first game, and Portugal in their 2, who I'd also like to see win as it would cheer up the Portuguese a bit. With Croatia and Holland there's a healthy number of teams going for it. Last 8 should be terrific. I feel England would have let the standard down and played like Austria and Greece in that cagey fearful way of ours. Refreshing not to have to worry about it

This is turning out to be a great tournament. Maybe the absence of the usual hysteria around England's progress allows us to just enjoy the wealth of skills on display. I really like the emergence of a 'new' European order of merit: Holland, Spain, Portugal and Croatia - all of whom seem to want to play with great flair and score goals. What has killed some tournaments in the past has been the cautious pragmatism, and cynicism, of the established heavyweights - Germany, France, Italy and occasionally England - who scored few goals, entertained less, but always seemed to end up in the latter stages. Rather like the 'big four' in the PL. I would love to see the semi-finals with the new quartet. So far, also, no-one has benefited from diving and cynical fouls, the bane of the Champions League, and long may it continue.

Yes it does, so it surely won't happen. When have the hopes and dreams of idealists ever been so fully realised?

As much as I've enjoyed Holland's play, and as big as their victories have been (3 - 0 v Italy, 4 - 1 v France), they've been fortunate in both games, and may yet go down to a team with fewer big names and better cohesion than they've met so far. Romania may beat them in the last group match, which won't make any difference, but who are they lined up to meet after that, as the winner of their group versus the team that is second in another one?

Holland have six world-class players in goalkeeper Van Der Saar, left back Van Bronkhurst, mid-fielders Sneijder and Cuyt, winger Robben and striker/target man Van Nistelroy. (Sorry if I've spelled any names incorrectly *). The other five seem vulnerable. But maybe they add up to more than sum of their parts. That's how it's turned out so far. Sneijder has been the revelation for me, I'd never heard of him but he seems to be of the same kind of calibre as Portugal's Deco, one of those light-footed mid-fielders who pop up wherever they are needed, glide past their opponents like they are on skates and invariably find their man with the final pass. Has England ever had such a player? Certainly we don't have any contenders at the moment.

As for Portugal, Spain and Croatia, they all seem strong from front to back. Until they meet each others, it's hard to see any other team beating them.

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* I've ccorrected names after seeing you spell them the right way.

Last edited by Charlie on Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Charlie wrote:Sneijder has been the revelation for me, I'd never heard of him but he seems to be of the same kind of calibre as Portugal's Deco, one of those light-footed mid-fielders who pop up wherever they are needed, glide past their opponents like they are on skates and invariably find their man with the final pass. Has England ever had such a player? Certinly we don't have any contenders at the moment.

I guess Scholes would have been the closest when he was at his best, though England managers seemed stick him out on the wing where he was ineffective. Beardsley another contender?

Charlie wrote:Sneijder has been the revelation for me, I'd never heard of him but he seems to be of the same kind of calibre as Portugal's Deco, one of those light-footed mid-fielders who pop up wherever they are needed, glide past their opponents like they are on skates and invariably find their man with the final pass. Has England ever had such a player?

Paul Scholes*? If they'd have utilised him properly, that is. Sneijder actually first came to prominence as long ago as the last Euros (2004) when Holland lost to Portugal in the semis. He's currently the holder of the number 23 shirt for Real Madrid. Can't quite remember who wore that number for them previously...

Kevin McCarra in this morning's Guardian makes the point that our enjoyment of the tournament has been enhanced by the skills of the attacking players surpassing expactations, whilst much of the defending, (including such unlikely outfits as Germany and Italy) has been below par, which makes enjoayble viewing for the spectators.

The first half was so tedious, I kept chiding myself for watching it - addictions are indeed hard to shake off. Turkey's approach was inexplicable. One of the most skilful teams in the competition, they kept booting the ball in the air to forwards who were much smaller than the Czech defenders. 1 - 0 to the Czechs, and it could have been two or three.

The Turkish team that came out in the second half was instantly more recognisable, and as they kept attacking with impeccable passes along the floor, it seemed they must score. But no, the Czechs hit them with a breakaway goal while a Turkish central defender was off the field getting his head bandaged, and at 2 -0 to Czech Republic, that seemed to be that.

Finally, the Turkish manager brought on Kazim-Richards, who had seemed so good in the first match but was only used as a late substitute in the second. He seems to imbue the whole team with more energy, and it worked again. Three goals in the last 15 minutes, the last in injury time, the second the result of a calamitous error by the usually infallible goalkeeper Petr Cech. If ever you needed evidence that you just have to keep going, despite all set-backs and disappointments, here it was.

There's a particularly vicious foul that is more prevalent than ever before, where, as two players jump to head a ball, one of them deliberately jams his elbow into the side of the other's head. It's painful, dangerous and just plain nasty. It happens so often, it must be a technique that is honed in training sessions, with the skill being to make sure the ref can't see.

The ref's problem is made worse by the number of times other players fall to the ground holding their hands to their faces as if this has just happened to them, when actually they simply fell over the other player's feet, sometimes deliberately. There's a lot to be said for after-the-event punishments, where players are penalised after TV coverage has shown what they got away with, whether being violent or feigning injury.

Slaven Bilic is obviously doing a great job of coaching the Croatian team, and I guess his rock band (Rawbau?) may one day be in the line-up for Womad, or may even win Eurovision, but whenever I see him, I can't help remembering that he was one of the pioneers of the face-clutching fall to the ground trick, when he got Laurent Blanc disqualified from the World Cup Final in 1998. One of the TV pundits at the time, Alex Ferguson. made a comment about "Croatian mentality", but his own boys these days aren't above pulling the same trick. There was a particularly pathetic performance of it by Nani in one of United's late-season games.

You and I may be morally outraged by this, and by ordinary vicious fouls, the "best" of which go unobserved by the referee, but I do wonder if the players themselves (including the victims) feel the same, or do they think that all's fair that you can get away with?

Last edited by uiwangmike on Mon Jun 16, 2008 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.