Countertrey wrote: The point still stands. If the Browns want RG III, there is not a thing we can do about it. They will have him.

I disagree. All we would have to do is trade above them. You may not want to pay what it takes to do that, but it's certainly possible.

The Browns have much more ammunition than we do... If they want to move to 2, they have the 4 and 22 picks. If they want Griffin, they can outbid us without even breathing hard. Period.

I suspect they don't want him that bad... McCoy is not a lost cause, and they could use the talent those picks represent in other positions... But, that's not the discussion. If they want him... we can't stop them.

Sure we could. We could offer our #1 for the next ten years. Obviously we won't, but you still can't say it's impossible to outbid them.

I thought this was a debate... not a psychosis...
The bottom line remains... if the Browns want RGIII... they will have him. Mike Ditka is not our GM.

Countertrey wrote: The point still stands. If the Browns want RG III, there is not a thing we can do about it. They will have him.

I disagree. All we would have to do is trade above them. You may not want to pay what it takes to do that, but it's certainly possible.

The Browns have much more ammunition than we do... If they want to move to 2, they have the 4 and 22 picks. If they want Griffin, they can outbid us without even breathing hard. Period.

I suspect they don't want him that bad... McCoy is not a lost cause, and they could use the talent those picks represent in other positions... But, that's not the discussion. If they want him... we can't stop them.

Sure we could. We could offer our #1 for the next ten years. Obviously we won't, but you still can't say it's impossible to outbid them.

I thought this was a debate... not a psychosis...The bottom line remains... if the Browns want RGIII... they will have him. Mike Ditka is not our GM.

No, but like I said, we can outbid the Browns if we really want to. I don't buy this "If the Browns want him, we can't do anything about it" line. But, in the end, I don't think the Browns are going to move on RGIII. If he falls to them at #4, they would probably take him, but I think they will stick with McCoy and target Blackmon with that pick. They will probably pick up a FA QB for the time being.

That doesn't mean that I'm wrong if I say I can't do it. This "We could offer our next 20 #1's" is a ludicrous position. We will not win a bidding war with the Browns. The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year. That, plus change, will be the extent of the bidding. As I said... the insane are not involved in this process any longer. If the Browns desire for RG3 is equal to ours, they win.

Countertrey wrote:The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year.

I'm not so sure about that.

According to the value chart Cleveland's two #1s (#4 & #22) are worth 1800+780=2580 while our #1 this year (#6) is worth 1600 meaning we'd need to add 980 in value to be giving a better offer. For our first piok next year to be worth more than 980 we need to draft #16 or better.

It's probably a wash.

Actually, Cleveland's #1s don't quite equal the value of the #2 overall pick which is 2600 while our two #1s are that good or better if we pick in the top 16 next year. Thus, we'd both probably have to sweeten the pot anyway.

Countertrey wrote:The price of 2 #1's this year beats a #1 this year and a #1 next year.

I'm not so sure about that.

According to the value chart Cleveland's two #1s (#4 & #22) are worth 1800+780=2580 while our #1 this year (#6) is worth 1600 meaning we'd need to add 980 in value to be giving a better offer. For our first piok next year to be worth more than 980 we need to draft #16 or better.

It's probably a wash.

Actually, Cleveland's #1s don't quite equal the value of the #2 overall pick which is 2600 while our two #1s are that good or better if we pick in the top 16 next year. Thus, we'd both probably have to sweeten the pot anyway.

Next year's first would be slotted in the same position as this year's first (#6), but it loses a round in value so it's only worth 520 pts.

I really think that St Louis is going to trade that # 2 pick to help build their team

IF Cleveland wants RGIII they get him

Our only chance is that the Browns want someone else

we will have to give up a minimum of 2 #1 picks and a 2nd rounder this year - MINIMUM

P A T I E N C E - Snyder needs to just 'butt out' and give Scot time to figure out who he needs in the FO, who he needs as the HC and what players fit what he thinks is a good system for this franchise - it's a mess & it will take time

Oh how I wish this scenerio would play out. However I just don't see how Cleveland could pass on Griffin? Seriously why would they draft Richardson when they have a premier back already?

Holmgren is no dummy. He will take Griffin if he is there. Our only chance is to move ahead of Cleveland. If we dont move up to no. 2 Griffin lands in Cleveland.

I just feel this is the year to grab our franchise QB. If we have to I say give up our 1st , 2nd , third this year and if we must the next two 1st round picks for the following years. I just dont think we can let this opportunity pass us by.

Deadskins wrote:No, but like I said, we can outbid the Browns if we really want to. I don't buy this "If the Browns want him, we can't do anything about it" line

Seriously? You don't get it? Um...OK...I'll explain the obvious.

1) People like cash on the barrel head. A #1 pick this year is better then a #1 pick next year.

2) People like the known. If they take Cleveland's 2 #1 picks this year, they know where they are picking. If they take a pick next year, they don't know where the pick will be.

So, to top Cleveland we would have to offer more to both make up for the "credit" (#1 next year) as well as the unknown (not knowing where they pick). That becomes an absurd amount to pay. I mean duh. You really require the lawyer qualifications of "for an amount that is remotely realistic to pay?" It's obviously that's what it means, I don't see why that's required on a message board.

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way

HEROHAMO wrote:Oh how I wish this scenerio would play out. However I just don't see how Cleveland could pass on Griffin? Seriously why would they draft Richardson when they have a premier back already?

Holmgren is no dummy. He will take Griffin if he is there. Our only chance is to move ahead of Cleveland. If we dont move up to no. 2 Griffin lands in Cleveland.

I agree with you, they'll grab RGIII if he falls to #4. I'm just not as sold that the Browns will actually make a trade to move up to #2. Two first round picks this year to move up just two spots is really steep, and they are a team that could use both of those picks.

HEROHAMO wrote:Oh how I wish this scenerio would play out. However I just don't see how Cleveland could pass on Griffin? Seriously why would they draft Richardson when they have a premier back already?

Holmgren is no dummy. He will take Griffin if he is there. Our only chance is to move ahead of Cleveland. If we dont move up to no. 2 Griffin lands in Cleveland.

I agree with you, they'll grab RGIII if he falls to #4. I'm just not as sold that the Browns will actually make a trade to move up to #2. Two first round picks this year to move up just two spots is really steep, and they are a team that could use both of those picks.

I agree. I think most people are arguing though:

- If - Cleveland wants Griffin, no one will top them because they can get him for the 2 #1's. No one can (Deadskins should insert the word "realistically" here, to everyone else it's obvious) outbid them so they will get him.

If they don't, the Skins are in play, but a lot of other teams need what is widely considered a top QB prospect and will be willing to give up a lot to get him too.

He is very unlikely to go to Cleveland at #4 and isn't going to fall to us unless everyone is playing up rating him higher then they do as a complete fabrication. So I don't think people are arguing Cleveland "will" make the trade for the two #1's, just that if they do, they will win.

That is assuming the Rams aren't keeping Griffin. It seems unlikely, but they could trade Bradford if they are that sold on Griffin. Or another complete wildcard would be if the Colts decide Griffin is better then Luck. Again unlikely, but there are a lot of possibilities still.

Groucho: Man does not control his own fate. The women in his life do that for him

Proverb: Failure is not falling down. Failure is not getting up again

Twain: A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way