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theyd need a bigger stadium but they have a whole province to support them...if u build it people will come

You can build a bigger stadium and people can come but I still doubt that they could make enough to support a team.

Say they built a 80,000 seat stadium, put average ticket prices at $90 (which is close to double what they are now, and $18 higher then the NFL's prices), and sold out every game. That is only 57.6 million, now if you take concessions, jerseys, advertising at the stadium it might go up to 90 million (and thats being kind). You are still 33 million short of the payroll without any other expenses such as coaches, training faculities, stadium upkeep, travel costs, scouting. Plus you have to consider that the payroll is payed in American dollars and the customers are paying in Canadian, so that 90 million is actually worth only 72 million. So in a best case scenario a huge stadium sold out would likely come up with less then half of what they would need to just stay afloat.

Where the NFL teams really make their money is off of the tv deals, shich works out to around 100 million per team. This isn't something that the owners would share with a canadian team because they wouldn't add any revenue to it. They would probably let the Canadian teams split up the Canadian tv revenues, if lucky that would add up to 10 million. Without a share of the US tv deal virtually no team in Canada would have a shot at surviving, and that is something a Canadian team would never get a share of.

so IF they were to merge, the cfl teams im sure would get a cut as well
candain stadiums will be more full or sold out because ppl would want to see the nfl teams and rivals and so on

All the NFL teams are in the US, most of their tv revenue is made in the US marketplace. The Canadian teams wouldn't create any more tv revenues in the US, if anything the tv ratings would drop for games that involved Canadian teams. And the extra tv revenue they would create in Canada would be about equivelant to what the CFL brings in, which isn't very much. Why in the world would they share the US revenue with 8 Canadian teams? You think that the American teams are willing to just give away 20% of their tv revenue for the fun of it, financially it makes no sense they may as well give the money to charity.

Also creating 8 new teams would spread the pool of talent pretty thin which would result in worse overall play.

All the NFL teams are in the US, most of their tv revenue is made in the US marketplace. The Canadian teams wouldn't create any more tv revenues in the US, if anything the tv ratings would drop for games that involved Canadian teams. And the extra tv revenue they would create in Canada would be about equivelant to what the CFL brings in, which isn't very much. Why in the world would they share the US revenue with 8 Canadian teams? You think that the American teams are willing to just give away 20% of their tv revenue for the fun of it, financially it makes no sense they may as well give the money to charity.

Also creating 8 new teams would spread the pool of talent pretty thin which would result in worse overall play.

Regarding the rules, I think that if the NFL competition committee took a look hard at the suggestions here they would be hard-pressed to flat out say they couldn't work, but the arrogance factor would likely get in the way. The NFL feels pretty good about itself and the arguments would likely be more emotional and condescending than rational and trained on market appeal. I've talked with some former NFL players and coaches over the years who have stated that they really love the movement and the no-yards punting game. Adjusting the final two minutes to a "stop after every play" approach means that teams are still in it right to the absolute end. I have to admit that eliminating the "rouge" needs to happen in the CFL no matter what.

As for expanding by eight teams, they already did it at the end of the '60s. Yes, times were different, but the perception there was that the NFL had superior teams just like the commonly held perception regarding the CFL. Within a few years of the merger, the talent level had virtually balanced out. Just to comment there as well, there would also be a period of adjustment to new rules that would make some of the better players just average and some so-called also ran fit perfectly into the new game. Case in point: the NHL drastically altered its rules coming out of a labor dispute and some former star players couldn't make the adjustment. Certain body-types and coordination capabilities are better matched to certain games. It's why a lot of NFL players come to the CFL and bomb, same as the other way around. Right now the games are so different it isn't a realistic comparison. As for the NHL, don't forget they too swallowed up the competing WHA in 1979, adding 4 teams to a sixteen team league at the time. That seemed to work reasonably well: anybody hear of a WHA player named Wayne Gretzky?

As far as attendance goes, don't sell short the appeal of the NFL north of the 49th. Stadiums that currently don't sell out would find that there would be a tremendous draw having established NFL teams visit former CFL stadiums. Don't forget that my proposal would move the weakest attendance franchise to LA. Being from Calgary, by the way, I can comment that there are no less than 50,000 US citizens living here as permanent residents. The rest of Canada has similar proportional residents and I would hazard a guess that at least one in three would head to the games in addition to the CFL fans already going. Calgary regularly sells out a 40,000 seat stadium. Edmonton averages even more, and can you imagine what a Seattle - Vancouver rivalry could become in time? Look at the big picture. Addressing the other comment about Montreal selling out its games, I'll play devil's advocate and remind people that they were struggling in 65,000 seat Olympic stadium and now play in 20,000 seat Molson stadium. But the NFL's appeal can't be dismissed: when the Montreal Machine was part of the NFL's WLAF experiment (pre-cursor of NFL Europe for the younger crowd) they had huge numbers for a definitely sub-par talent level. But at the time it was seen as the next step to Montreal getting an NFL franchise... Make the Alouettes an NFL team and they will be selling standing room only tickets at the big "O".

Regarding the argument about revenues, it is very obvious that many don't understand the revenue potential in Canada. For the NFL it would actually be a lot of found money due to television contracts (they really do have TV in Canada), sponsorships (Canada also has breweries and car manufacturing) and of course marketing and merchandising opportunities. Add in the merchandising in the US for those individuals who have to have everything and there is suddenly a ton of new things to buy and collect.

One of the reasons the CFL doesn't get the revenue numbers people would like to see is the fact that the networks and major sponsors in Canada presently split their pro football money between the CFL and the NFL due to satellite and cable coverage opportunities. If they held a true monopoly they would probably be working with a 25 - 30 million dollar salary cap. No, still not the 100 million dollar range, but it gives you an idea of what the perception is of the NFL's superiority, even in corporate Canada. As far as revenue sharing, yes it would initially hit the existing NFL teams a bit, but in the long run it would likely balance out. We're talking a period of years don't forget.

kvtrains, you seem very gung-ho about this but I just don't see it as realistic at all. You mention the NFL and NHL expanding by a lot of teams. The NBA also did this as well but there is a huge difference, those times the leagues were merging/taking over with leagues that were competitiors with very similar talent levels. The CFL is not on par in any way with the NFL and is not a competitor. The NFL doesn't lose money, popularity, or market share to the CFL which was what was happening in the other instances.

As far as attendance, I don't think that would be a huge problem except for the fact that ticket prices would probably have to go up a lot (which could hurt attendance). But the majority of the NFL's money doesn't come from attendance anyways so it wouldn't be enough to support a franchise by far. Another thing that would have to be considered is that the stadiums in Calgary, Saskatchewan, and Winnipeg are not big enough and new ones would have to be built. The stadiums in the other cities are borderline big enough but would all need major renovations.

The argument about revenues in Canada not being tapped yet is untrue. The NFL already makes a ton of money here through tv, merchandise, etc. And they don't have to share any of that with a bunch of Canadian teams. By merging the CFL into the NFL they really wouldn't be bringing in that much more in money, even over time. The revenue sharing would not balance out over time.

Another thing that you have to consider is that each CFL team would have to pay for a franchise like any other expansion team. While the CFL teams are established they are nowhere near in value what an NFL team is, I imagine the cost would be somewhere in the range of 200-300 million for each team. I doubt many of the current owners are willing or able to dole out that much cash and its not like there is a huge lineup of billionaires waiting in these cities to do so.

Plus there really is no advantage to the NFL and the current teams to do this at all. It makes no sense financially.

Regarding the rules, I think that if the NFL competition committee took a look hard at the suggestions here they would be hard-pressed to flat out say they couldn't work, but the arrogance factor would likely get in the way. The NFL feels pretty good about itself and the arguments would likely be more emotional and condescending than rational and trained on market appeal. I've talked with some former NFL players and coaches over the years who have stated that they really love the movement and the no-yards punting game. Adjusting the final two minutes to a "stop after every play" approach means that teams are still in it right to the absolute end. I have to admit that eliminating the "rouge" needs to happen in the CFL no matter what.

As for expanding by eight teams, they already did it at the end of the '60s. Yes, times were different, but the perception there was that the NFL had superior teams just like the commonly held perception regarding the CFL. Within a few years of the merger, the talent level had virtually balanced out. Just to comment there as well, there would also be a period of adjustment to new rules that would make some of the better players just average and some so-called also ran fit perfectly into the new game. Case in point: the NHL drastically altered its rules coming out of a labor dispute and some former star players couldn't make the adjustment. Certain body-types and coordination capabilities are better matched to certain games. It's why a lot of NFL players come to the CFL and bomb, same as the other way around. Right now the games are so different it isn't a realistic comparison. As for the NHL, don't forget they too swallowed up the competing WHA in 1979, adding 4 teams to a sixteen team league at the time. That seemed to work reasonably well: anybody hear of a WHA player named Wayne Gretzky?

As far as attendance goes, don't sell short the appeal of the NFL north of the 49th. Stadiums that currently don't sell out would find that there would be a tremendous draw having established NFL teams visit former CFL stadiums. Don't forget that my proposal would move the weakest attendance franchise to LA. Being from Calgary, by the way, I can comment that there are no less than 50,000 US citizens living here as permanent residents. The rest of Canada has similar proportional residents and I would hazard a guess that at least one in three would head to the games in addition to the CFL fans already going. Calgary regularly sells out a 40,000 seat stadium. Edmonton averages even more, and can you imagine what a Seattle - Vancouver rivalry could become in time? Look at the big picture. Addressing the other comment about Montreal selling out its games, I'll play devil's advocate and remind people that they were struggling in 65,000 seat Olympic stadium and now play in 20,000 seat Molson stadium. But the NFL's appeal can't be dismissed: when the Montreal Machine was part of the NFL's WLAF experiment (pre-cursor of NFL Europe for the younger crowd) they had huge numbers for a definitely sub-par talent level. But at the time it was seen as the next step to Montreal getting an NFL franchise... Make the Alouettes an NFL team and they will be selling standing room only tickets at the big "O".

Regarding the argument about revenues, it is very obvious that many don't understand the revenue potential in Canada. For the NFL it would actually be a lot of found money due to television contracts (they really do have TV in Canada), sponsorships (Canada also has breweries and car manufacturing) and of course marketing and merchandising opportunities. Add in the merchandising in the US for those individuals who have to have everything and there is suddenly a ton of new things to buy and collect.

One of the reasons the CFL doesn't get the revenue numbers people would like to see is the fact that the networks and major sponsors in Canada presently split their pro football money between the CFL and the NFL due to satellite and cable coverage opportunities. If they held a true monopoly they would probably be working with a 25 - 30 million dollar salary cap. No, still not the 100 million dollar range, but it gives you an idea of what the perception is of the NFL's superiority, even in corporate Canada. As far as revenue sharing, yes it would initially hit the existing NFL teams a bit, but in the long run it would likely balance out. We're talking a period of years don't forget.

kvtrains, you seem very gung-ho about this but I just don't see it as realistic at all. You mention the NFL and NHL expanding by a lot of teams. The NBA also did this as well but there is a huge difference, those times the leagues were merging/taking over with leagues that were competitiors with very similar talent levels. The CFL is not on par in any way with the NFL and is not a competitor. The NFL doesn't lose money, popularity, or market share to the CFL which was what was happening in the other instances.

As far as attendance, I don't think that would be a huge problem except for the fact that ticket prices would probably have to go up a lot (which could hurt attendance). But the majority of the NFL's money doesn't come from attendance anyways so it wouldn't be enough to support a franchise by far. Another thing that would have to be considered is that the stadiums in Calgary, Saskatchewan, and Winnipeg are not big enough and new ones would have to be built. The stadiums in the other cities are borderline big enough but would all need major renovations.

The argument about revenues in Canada not being tapped yet is untrue. The NFL already makes a ton of money here through tv, merchandise, etc. And they don't have to share any of that with a bunch of Canadian teams. By merging the CFL into the NFL they really wouldn't be bringing in that much more in money, even over time. The revenue sharing would not balance out over time.

Another thing that you have to consider is that each CFL team would have to pay for a franchise like any other expansion team. While the CFL teams are established they are nowhere near in value what an NFL team is, I imagine the cost would be somewhere in the range of 200-300 million for each team. I doubt many of the current owners are willing or able to dole out that much cash and its not like there is a huge lineup of billionaires waiting in these cities to do so.

Plus there really is no advantage to the NFL and the current teams to do this at all. It makes no sense financially.