the best thing they could do is remove CD of csmash, make it cost 10 rage with a 20 second CD,
make it hit for 150% weapon damage (make it the weakest so we arent finding ourselves spaming csmash), overpower does 175% weapon damage and is tied to deep wounds (like old taste for blood).
mortal strike hits for 250% weapon damage, gg. oh and blood bath doesnt double dip resi (if it does, that is) and does 50% damage to pvp targets gg overwhelming fuck damage suck a fuck every other class wishful thinking

edit: forgot to mention make csmash last 20 seconds on any target.

^ all of this gives us the scary damage we need to be competitive in pvp again. its either that or give us CC again. personally i prefer the damage so people have a choice. for example do i take a rogue in my arena team for more CC and to line it up to score a kill? or do i take a warrior who can stomp EVERYTHING.

No I do not agree that the arms playstyle is entertaining. From a pvp standpoint, it is very cluttered especially compared to the past. I prefer simplicity for warriors in arena.

In my opinion, arms should be a more simple spec, where mediocre players can do decent pve dmg, and fury should have a more complex rotation that rewards elite players or those that are focused in squeezing every ounce of dps they can get.

Assassination rogues have the easiest spec of the rogue specs by far and does the most damage. There's no real arms need to be easy and mediocre. There are people like me who enjoy arms for whatever reason that would like to see it be more complex while offering a higher reward if you play it well.

As promised, I did a full clear this week as Arms, due to being in the alt team this week, I didn't do Lei Shen Heroic, but the rest I do have logs from. http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1g1uu39rnzrtn252/ is the overall logs. I'll look into each fight when I'm not half dead from PTR testing.

That's stupid, All specs should be viable in PVP and PVE. That's just silly, why make the spec if it can't be used in only one thing. It's horrible and people liked to say the same about Frost for mages. and that changed. Good thing it changed.

It didn't change as much as you think. Frost is played at lower ilvls until you get enough gear/crit to play Fire which does far more dps than Frost and then once you are geared you can swap between arcane and Fire. It hasnt changed and even with the buffs to Frost they are still far behind as we raid 5.4 Soo, with our Frost mage 541 geared swapping back to Arcane for stand still fights and Fire for movement and spreading dots.

Each class has their specs for Pvp and Pve.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Warriorsarri

As promised, I did a full clear this week as Arms, due to being in the alt team this week, I didn't do Lei Shen Heroic, but the rest I do have logs from. http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1g1uu39rnzrtn252/ is the overall logs. I'll look into each fight when I'm not half dead from PTR testing.

Is it warriors or arms that are that bad? I know our warrior is Fury 550ilvl and is constantly far behind the range, lock/Fire mages. But damn Arms is horrible, we ran our alts runs with 530 geared toon and we pulled more dps than this warrior at 550ilvl.

Is it warriors or arms that are that bad? I know our warrior is Fury 550ilvl and is constantly far behind the range, lock/Fire mages. But damn Arms is horrible, we ran our alts runs with 530 geared toon and we pulled more dps than this warrior at 550ilvl.

These logs show why we run rogues for our melee lol.

The reason I put these logs up was to have some data to base mine and other peoples arguments on. This week I did all the fights "correctly", I didn't pad that much.

Jin'rokh: Warriorsarri 313998 DPS Flimflop 406948 DPS. 30% difference.
Due to how the fight works, we'll need everything to proc with our CDs during execute if we want to compete. Nothing that was unexpected. It's slightly lower then what I usually do as Fury.

Horridon: Warriorsarri 334094 DPS Pattisan 449902 DPS. 35% difference.
Once again, due to how the fight works, you can inflate your DPS by quite a lot. Spent most of my time on the adds, which can been seen, as I was topping damage on most of the important adds.

Council of Elders: Warriorsarri 283808 DPS Pattisan 308771 DPS. 8% difference.
Quite a good fight for us. Quite easy to maintain a high up-time on Sweeping Strikes, and Deep Wounds on 3+ targets. With better planning and better execution I could have been top melee on this encounter.

Tortos: Warriorsarri 302991 DPS Pattisan 484260 DPS. 60% difference.
Quite an unfair comparison, Monks have amazing burst AoE, we don't. If we instead compare to Flimflop, 381414 DPS, it's a 26% difference. The difference is still quite big. Overall, not the best fight for Arms.

Magaera: Warriorsarri 204563 DPS Pattisan 279906 DPS. 36% difference.
As on Tortos, due our lack of Burst AoE, it's quite unfair to compare us to a WW Monk, if we instead look at Flimflip, 243647 DPS, it's a 19% difference.

Ji-Kun: Warriorsarri 268448 DPS Flimflop 353737 DPS. 31% difference.
He was on the first platform, I was on the second. We both got four buffs total.

Durumu: Warriorsarri 197561 DPS Pattisan 279045 DPS. 41% difference.
As with the earlier bosses, a big part of the difference is our lack of any good AoE. If we where to compare with the second highest melee, Flimflop, 226312 DPS, the difference is 14%.

Primordius: I had to tank here.

Dark Animus: I died when the boss was at 25% (First time I actually got to DPS him, always been the third tank before, so got overexcited when we got close to the end.

Iron Qon: Warriorsarri 190415 DPS Pattisan 246007 DPS. 29% difference.
Up until the big AoE Feast, we both did comparable damage, but as with the earlier bosses, WW + AoE beats Arms + AoE any day of the week.

Twins: Warriorsarri 224734 DPS Pattisan 275354 DPS. 22% difference.
The difference should have been bigger, but had amazing RNG for the AoE, but still got beaten by quite a lot in that department.

Lei Shen: We did him on Normal, so not really worth looking at.

Looking at just these numbers, the average difference on all fights is 34.777...%, if we take away Tortos, Magaera and Durumu, the difference is 23.777...%.

After trying Arms this week, I have a few things I have noticed. Our single target DPS is not good, but it's not as bad as some people would make it seem. There are few fights where Arms can utilize Sweeping Strikes. The only fight where it make us any good is Council. Our AoE, even tho it's good, is not well designed for this tier. We got amazing sustained AoE, where as the only AoE which is good this tier is Burst.

As I was the person I was examining, I may have looked at things in a glorified light. It may be better if others where to look at it instead.

Last note before I finish this post. This was the first time I played Arms in raids in almost half a year, the numbers can, and will become bigger in the upcoming weeks.

I've always believed that arms ain't bad.. Just that for most fights this tier (except council) arms is behind fury.

Given that the gearing for arms and fury is so similar, it is understandable why many can't be bothered playing arms. If blizzard buff arms ahead of fury... Then the reverse becomes true.. Why play fury?

Arms is definitely viable in PVE. The issue is how you define "viable". As long as the dps is higher than the tank and the boss goes down, I think it's viable

Originally Posted by Warriorsarri

As promised, I did a full clear this week as Arms, due to being in the alt team this week, I didn't do Lei Shen Heroic, but the rest I do have logs from. http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-1g1uu39rnzrtn252/ is the overall logs. I'll look into each fight when I'm not half dead from PTR testing.