DistroWatch Weekly

A weekly opinion column and a summary of events from the distribution world

DistroWatch Weekly

DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 72, 25 October 2004

Welcome to this year's 42nd edition of DistroWatch Weekly. This week we'll bring you extensive coverage of the newly released Ubuntu Linux 4.10 and we'll also look forward towards new releases expected later this week: SUSE LINUX 9.2 is now reportedly shipping in Germany, while the much awaited FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE shouldn't take much longer. Happy reading!

The first stable version of Ubuntu Linux was released last week. For some, this might have been just another release on the long list of new distributions lining up for our attention. However, there is little doubt that Ubuntu is one of the most significant development efforts that has hit the Linux distribution scene for a long time. The initial impressions of users seem to be extremely favourable. Reviews and related community web sites and forums have started appearing on the Internet. The level of technical support the Ubuntu developers provide on the mailing lists is unparallelled (a significantly more pleasant experience than the heated debates one often witnesses on the Debian lists). Overall, Ubuntu is a winner, especially for those who prefer Debian and GNOME as their working environment.

The only controversy that Ubuntu generated prior to the final release was related to some of the artwork included with the distribution. Many users seemed to have been offended by the Ubuntu wallpaper and considered the "nudity" inappropriate for the otherwise excellent product. Ubuntu's founder Mark Shuttleworth explains: "The background to the theme is the idea of 'spirit of humanity'. ... I'm aware the images might be controversial. So is any work of art." Following a round of discussion on the Ubuntu IRC channel, a decision was made to drop all artwork from the default desktop, but make it available as an option after installation. Mark Shuttleworth: "In the pantheon of ideas about which it could be asked 'which dumbnut dreamed this up?' the idea of strong human imagery in Ubuntu would appear to feature prominently, and the dumbnut in question would be me. I'll have to shoulder any blame for the original idea and its execution."

Ubuntu Linux 4.10 - the otherwise excellent release was marred by controversy over some of the included artwork(full image size: 314kB)

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While we are all eagerly waiting for the FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE, here is something to kill the time: LiveBSD's new live CD (based on FreeBSD 5.3) with KDE 3.3.0 and the BSD Installer: "FreeBSD 5.3 LiveCD, KDE 3.3 and the BSD Installer from BSDInstaller.com. Please note that this is a beta release and we plan on tweaking it further with suggestions over the next week or two. We have added many math programs to the newest version and we are TRYING to cram OpenOffice.org in but it's going to be close. Everything installed via 'make install' from the FreeBSD ports system." Find more information and download links on the project's development page.

* * * * *

The home page of Slackware Linux has been updated. This wouldn't be news, but since it happens no more than a few times in a year, we deemed it newsworthy enough. What happened? "First of all, there's a new official Slackware Port, it's Slack/390 (for the s/390 architecture obviously). Mark Post and Mike Kershaw began porting Slackware to the mainframe early in 2001; Mark is currently the sole developer/maintainer of the Slack/390 project. Further information about the S/390 port can be found on the slack390 official website. Second, the mirrors list (getslack) has been updated...." There is more, so visit Slackware.com to read all the latest news from the Slackware project.

* * * * *

A new version of Mandrakelinux Move is now available for free download from the distribution's many mirrors: "The new Mandrakelinux Move is now publicly available for download. The full commercial version is available on Mandrakestore, bundled with various USB keys and now also without any key. Additionally, Mandrakeclub Silver Members (and above) can download the commercial ISO. Remember: Mandrakelinux Move is the perfect way to introduce your friends to Linux, and a must-have for all of you - Linux experts - who need to bring a full Linux system everywhere with you!" Although this release of Mandrakesoft's very own live CD is based on Mandrakelinux 10.0 (as opposed to the newer version 10.1) and many applications are somewhat out of date, Move is still a nice live CD to carry around, especially for users who are familiar with the company's other products. More information is available on the Move page.

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StartCom Enterprise Linux has announced the availability of an updated version of StartCom Linux 3.0.3 MultiMedia Edition. This follows the product's successful launch two weeks ago: "StartCom decided to invest even more resources in this distribution and offers today an updated version, with many additional drivers, specially for sound and video cards, namely the inclusion of ALSA modules and the NVIDIA driver. The current version can be downloaded from one of our mirrors. Choose the iso images with the -i386-[1-3].iso extension." The updated release has the same version number as the earlier release (3.0.3) and existing installations can be upgraded through StartCom Network. Visit StartCom.org for more information about this distribution and to find out about the company's other products - StartCom Enterprise Linux and StartCom Linux Developer Edition.

* * * * *

Finally, what do you think about the ongoing effort to promote the Firefox browser and take out a full-page advertisement in the New York Times? We briefly thought about supporting it with a small donation, but then... something didn't sound right. That 'something' was the choice of the advertising medium. Why New York Times? In other words, why limit the exposure to a regional newspaper that only reaches a tiny percentage of the world's population? Wouldn't a globally available publication be more appropriate for such a move? Perhaps something like International Herald Tribune, Financial Times or maybe Newsweek? While we agree with, and wholeheartedly support the effort to promote Firefox to the masses, the people behind the initiative should remember that Linux, Firefox and the vast majority of other open source software projects were not created in New York, many of them not even in the USA. They are truly global efforts, spanning the globe and the Internet. It's a shame that the Firefox promoters can't see beyond their own country.

Featured distribution of the week: Ubuntu Linux

Ubuntu Linux

Ubuntu Linux has stormed the Linux distribution scene like no other project before. It has done so in a fashion resembling a highly sophisticated player: it seems to have first observed all the other major projects, learnt from their mistakes and combined the best features of all of them into one superior product. A six-month's release cycle, up-to-date package set, a clearly set product lifetime (at 18 months), fast download mirrors, great documentation, even free CDs and free shipment of CDs anywhere in the world to those interested in the distribution. That's Ubuntu.

The Ubuntu Linux project is funded by Mark Shuttleworth. Those who have never heard the name, Mark is a South African entrepreneur who made a fortune when he sold his company, Thawte Consulting, to Verisign, for US$575 million in late 1999. He appears to be a generous person: after the sale, he reportedly paid bonuses of one million Rand each (about US$163,000 at the time) to every one of his employees. He also founded several educational and open source initiatives around South Africa, including Go Open Source. While it is not yet clear how Mark's Canonical Limited intends to make money from Ubuntu, the distribution is certainly off to a good start, at least in terms of getting the name into public consciousness and offering a solid alternative to more established Linux distributions.

On the technical side of things, Ubuntu is based on Debian Sid (unstable branch), but with more up-to-date packages, including GNOME 2.8. The distribution is designed to be used on desktops and servers, with a supported upgrade path from Debian 3.0 (Woody). One of its more interesting features is the fact that the "root" account is disabled by default; the first registered user after installation is granted superuser privileges through the "sudo" command. This measure, while it might sound like an inconvenience at first, has to be applauded since it encourages good security practices.

The inaugural release of Ubuntu Linux has turned out to be a great success.(full image size 609kB)

Released Last Week

Ubuntu Linux 4.10

The first ever stable release of Ubuntu Linux, code name "Warty Warthog", is out: "The warm-hearted Warthogs of the Warty Team are proud to present the very first release of Ubuntu! Ubuntu is a new Linux distribution that brings together the extraordinary breadth of Debian with a fast and easy install, regular releases (every six months), a tight selection of excellent packages installed by default and a commitment to security updates with 18months of security and technical support for every release. Warty can be installed in a minimalist mode for servers, or in full desktop mode. It works well on laptops and desktops." Read the rest of the release announcement. ISO images for AMD64, i386 and PPC architectures, as well as BitTorrent seeds are available from the Ubuntu download page.

Rocks Cluster 3.3.0

A new version of the Rocks Cluster distribution has been released: "Rocks 3.3.0 released. If you are building a compute cluster, grid endpoint, or a visualization cluster please choose from our following selection. For example, to build a Pentium compute cluster you must download the base, hpc+kernel, and area51+java+sge rolls. If you wish to build something not on the menu you must choose from our à la carte selection, but make sure to download the required base, hpc, and kernel rolls." See the release announcement with download links for information on which files to download to suit your environment.

Puppy Linux 0.9.6

Puppy Linux version 0.9.6 is out: "Puppy version 0.9.6 released. Release notes: Xine-libs plugin backend and Gxine media player is now in Puppy, as well as a plugin for Firefox. Puppy has the full suite of Xine plugins, that support a wide range of audio and video formats as well as streaming audio and video, video DVDs and audio CDs. Puppy now has two very powerful vector graphics editor applications: Dia and Sodipodi. Dia is superb for organisational/hierarchical diagrams and Sodipodi is a SVG-native vector editor that can also be used for generic image creation. TkDVD and growisofs have been added to Puppy...." Read the rest of the release notes for further details.

SLAX 4.2.0

SLAX 4.2.0 has been released, together with several new "special editions". From the changelog: "New special SLAX editions released: 'Kill-Bill' edition with WINE and DosEMU, 'Popcorn' edition with XFce and Mozilla, 'Professional' edition with GCC, more coming soon! Added Linux kernel 2.4.28-pre4 with SATA support; added some missing cheatcodes to cheatcodes.txt on the CD; added 'toram' boot option, a synonym for copy2ram; added X.org 6.8.1, KDE 3.3.1, KOffice 1.3.3; added ndiswrapper 0.10 (allows using Windows drivers for WiFi cards); added sudo, guest can start GUI by using it; added user 'guest' with password 'guest'. Please understand that guest is a non-root user so you can't start any software in SLAX which would need root privileges. GUI can be started (sudo is used)...." For the above-mentioned specialist editions please visit the SLAX download page.

A new version of vnlinuxCD, a Vietnamese live CD based on Mandrakelinux, has been released. This version includes kernel 2.6, GNOME 2.4 (as the default desktop environment), OpenOffice.org 1.1 office suite (with AbiWord and Gnumeric also present), pre-configured multimedia plugins, and the graphical user interface in Vietnamese. Although vnlinuxCD is designed to be a live CD, it can be installed on one's hard disk with the help of a simple 6-step wizard. More information about the release is available in the release announcement and on the distribution's web site (both links in Vietnamese).

SUSE LINUX 9.2 Live CD/DVD

The upcoming SUSE LINUX 9.2 has yet to hit the retail stores, but the product's two live CDs (with either KDE or GNOME) and a live DVD are now available for free download: "This directory contains three different versions of Live media for SUSE LINUX Professional 9.2. LiveDVD.iso: the LiveDVD that comes with both GNOME and KDE desktops and a number of popular applications. LiveCD-Gnome.iso: This is LiveCD with only GNOME. LiveCD-KDE.iso:This is a LiveCD with only KDE. The LiveDVD supports the following languages: Bulgarian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, French, German, Greece, Hungarian, Italian, Japanese, Portuguese (Brazil), Russian, Slovenian, Slovak, Spanish, Swedish, Turkish. The two LiveCDs only support English and German languages." The README file also contains instructions for burning the ISO images.

After some reader feedback last week, this section has undergone some modifications: besides publishing all the upcoming release announcements, it will also serve as a reference point for expected future releases.

SUSE LINUX 9.2

Although Novell announced that SUSE LINUX 9.2 would only be available in early November, customers in Germany have reportedly been getting their new SUSE boxes late last week. Amazon.de officially starts shipping the boxes today, while Amazon.co.uk will do so on November 5 and Amazon.com on October 11. Besides the Professional Edition, ISO images of SUSE LINUX 9.2 LiveCD (with GNOME or KDE) and LiveDVD are now available for free download.

FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE

According to this revised schedule, the first stable release of FreeBSD 5.x is imminent. Keep an eye on your favourite mirror and don't forget to get a bottle of champagne for the occasion. After all, it has been more than 4.5 years since the release of the first stable version of FreeBSD 4.x series.

Fedora Core 3

The final release of Fedora Core 3 has been delayed by a week - it will now be released on November 8. This is mainly due to kernel updates: "Because a good amount of kernel work for FC3 happened after the FC3test3 release, the release of the final FC3 has been delayed to November 8. The extra time will be used only to give extra attention to the kernel, and to find any showstopper bugs in other parts of the distribution." On a related note, a quiet release candidate of Fedora Core 3, "that looks pretty close to what FC3 will be," was announced on Friday; the ISO images are available from testing.fedora.redhat.com or from fedora.linux.duke.edu.

Xandros Desktop 3.0

Xandros Corporation has announced a new beta program for testing the upcoming Xandros Desktop 3.0: "Xandros, the leading developer of easy-to-use Linux solutions, today announced its beta test program for the forthcoming version 3.0 of the award-winning Xandros Desktop Operating System (OS). Novice to expert users interested in beta testing the latest enhancements to Xandros desktop technology are invited to apply at the Xandros web site. Xandros will select a beta test team that covers a broad range of user experiences, as well as a diversity of hardware and networking scenarios." Interested parties should apply here. The final release of Xandros Desktop 3.0 is expected before the end of this year.

Vine Linux 3.1CR

Following the recent release of Vine Linux 3.0, the project has announced that a commercial release (CR) of Vine Linux 3.1 will be available on November 11. Pre-orders for the i386 and PPC editions are now accepted, with prices starting at ¥6,400.

ASPLinux 10

ASPLinux has announced the availability of a beta release of ASPLinux 10. The new version is based on Fedora Core, which the company considers to be the highest quality distribution with frequent updates. The major components are: Linux kernel 2.6.8, glibc 2.3.3, GCC 3.3.3, Xorg-X11 6.8.1, GNOME 2.8.0, KDE 3.3.0, Mozilla 1.7.3, Evolution 2.0.2. ASP Linux strives to release only well-tested and bug-free products. Due to the fact that the company's development and testing resources are limited, interested public is invited to join in the beta testing process of the new distribution release. Testing will last until November 1st and bugs should be reported in the Bugzilla. This is the full press release (in Russian). The final release of ASPLinux 10 is scheduled for the second half of November.

ClarkConnect Broadband Gateway 3.0

The developers of ClarkConnect Broadband Gateway have published a roadmap leading towards version 3.0. The expected release time of the final version is November 2004.

Frugalware Linux. Frugalware Linux is general purpose Linux distribution designed for intermediate users. Some of its elements were borrowed from Slackware Linux and Arch Linux.

grml. grml is a bootable CD (live CD) based on Knoppix and Debian. grml includes a collection of GNU/Linux software especially for users of text tools and system administrators. grml provides automatic hardware detection. You can use grml as a rescue system, for analysing systems/networks, or as a working environment. It is not necessary to install anything on a hard disk. Due to on-the-fly decompression, grml includes about 2GB of software and documentation on the CD.

Julex. Julex is a Knoppix-based live CD distribution. Its aim is to be light-weight so that it works on older computers and is a small file to download.

New on the waiting list

APODIO. APODIO is a live bootable CD containing major audio tools (GNU/Linux). The goal of APODIO is to build a free powerful audio workstation.

iBox. iBox is a Gentoo-based live CD with user interface in simplified Chinese.

Discontinued distributions

Eagle Linux (a set of scripts for building a complete live CD from an existing Linux installation) and WinBi (an Indonesian distribution based on Trustix Linux) have been placed on the list of Discontinued Distributions. Their web sites have been dead for several months with no indication of any ongoing development work.

1 • Firefox & New York Times (by Olli at 2004-10-25 11:45:24 GMT)
While it is true that the New York Times is just limited to a small area, it's actually not what truely counts. By picking a major and well known newspaper to advertise in, they get the media interested even before the ad is placed in the New York Times. This is just a way to get the spotlights on you and meanwhile get as much as media coverage and Brand pimping as possible.2 • subliminal ubuntu (by Anonymous on 2004-10-25 11:58:46 GMT)
There is a subliminal message in that Ubuntu wallpaper. Here is a hint: Look at their eyes of the 3 models.3 • Adds (by Pedro on 2004-10-25 12:03:43 GMT)
I'm against it. I can't think of many other stupid ways to spend money! You see an add on NYT about a browser. So what? Will you even try it?!4 • Donations: GUI firewalls (by Penguin on 2004-10-25 12:24:18 GMT)
I got an idea about the potential projects worth donating some money. What about easy to use (GUI) security software for non-expert desktop/home users?

Some (mostly) commercial distros have integrated firewalls, but perhaps a majority of distros have none, integrated and newbie friendly firewalls, I mean. So I think it would make sense if Distrowatch supported all the little distros out there by giving money to projects that could make them more competitive when compared to a few big commercial distros, don't you think?

A good example of a relatively easy to use distro, but that is lacking an integrated firewall, is Ubuntu. However, and if you ask me, a good firewall is an essential thing for any PC connected to the Internet these days.

So, I was thinking that you could donate some money to projects like Firestarter (GNOME) and Guarddog (KDE). Are there some other easy to use GUI firewalls like those?

A more advanced candidate could also be some project like Bastille Linux (rather easy even for a non-expert IMHO). It's a pity, for example, that Bastille runs only under a few biggest distros.5 • FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE, Ubuntu, FireFox (by Anonymous on 2004-10-25 12:40:22 GMT)
It should be out within the next day. The anticipation is killing me. Below is a link to the schedual:

Ubuntu: I am kind of sorry to hear that they pulled the 'spirit of humanity' theme from their main release. Its great that they offered it as package.

FireFox and the "New York Times": I would agree with this aspect of their project. The medium should appeal to a greater auidence than a newspaper based out of NYC. There is nothing wrong NYC; however, a global perspective might be more in order IE: Newsweek, Time and so forth.

Just my humble opinion.

As for donations? How about OpenSSH? or OpenOffice?6 • re: subliminal ubuntu (by SFN on 2004-10-25 13:51:37 GMT)
The only subliminal message I'm getting is that the blonde model thinks it's cold in there.

Bad taste.

*flogs self*7 • NYT - a waste? (by Anthony at 2004-10-25 13:53:34 GMT)
I'm no expert in advertising - but everything I've read is that you need to get your message in front of people at least 4 times before they even notice it. Perhaps the ideas is to get the attention of the media "elite".

If they actually want to get more customers I would write some plugins/extensions for yahoo mail and then advertise on mail.yahoo.com like crazy. You would get a lot more eyeballs/$.8 • re: Donations: GUI firewalls (by SFN on 2004-10-25 13:55:13 GMT)
"A good example of a relatively easy to use distro, but that is lacking an integrated firewall, is Ubuntu. "

"It's a pity, for example, that Bastille runs only under a few biggest distros."

Being that Ubuntu is Debian based, wouldn't Ubuntu be one of those distros?9 • multi boot live cds (by anand at 2004-10-25 13:55:47 GMT)
long time distrowatch eader...question...does anyone have info on combning several live distros on on cd?

Thanks.10 • the ubuntu art work (by speel at 2004-10-25 14:03:41 GMT)
lol im personally sick of hearing about the art work.. if you dont like it change it thats be beauty of linux or you can just close your eyes11 • re: Donations: GUI firewalls (by Penguin on 2004-10-25 14:30:44 GMT)Being that Ubuntu is Debian based, wouldn't Ubuntu be one of those distros?

You mean that Bastille can be used with Ubuntu? I guess so but Bastille is not supported. Maybe it is part of the "universe" packages from Debian unstable that run ok also with Ubuntu, I don't know?

Anyway, Bastille is not what I meant with an easy to use GUI firewall. But Firestarter and Guarddog are just that. However, both Firestarter and Guarddog may lack some features or the they don't pass something like grc.com tests without a problem, so they still have a lot room for development (and could have need for some donation money).

If there was an easy to use GUI firewall, people could, regardless of the distro, just download and install the appropriate firewall package suitable for the desktop environment used, and have a working firewall in a few moments. However, in the current state of GUI firewalls for Linux (that are not integrated to the distro like e.g. in Mandrake or Redhat), installing and configuring a firewall in Linux is too difficult for a newbie kind of a user.12 • re: Donations: GUI firewalls ( (by Penguin on 2004-10-25 14:40:30 GMT)
...oh, and Bastille does not work 100% reliable even with Debian unstable/testing AFAIK. After running Bastille you may need to manually fix several configuration options that the semi-automatic Bastille script couldn't handle. Maybe Bastille runs ok on Debian stable, I don't know, but not unstable (= Ubuntu too).13 • reply to "the ubuntu art work" (by speel) (by John Coombes at 2004-10-25 14:57:37 GMT)
Speel - please do not just take the narrow usually Western point of view QUOTE im personally sick of hearing about END QUOTE - do you realise that in lots of societies round the world showing large amounts of flesh is offensive - some thing that most westerners do not consider (especially when they take holidays to exsoitic places) - you know it does not offend me (orig. from UK now an Aussie) and I certainly am not a religious or anti nudity fanatic - but from my experiance travelling round the world I learnt that one should should not always jugde things from ones own narrow point of view (no matter how liberated you think you may be) - Please Everyone think beyond the little square that you live in - being a WiZ Kid does not equate to being Wize in the ways of the World (I call it common sence)14 • re: subliminal ubuntu (by Anonymous on 2004-10-25 15:00:52 GMT)
"The only subliminal message I'm getting is that the blonde model thinks it's cold in there."

Not that one. That's just them making the Ubuntu symbol at the log-in screen. The message is in the other picture, the one of the wallpaper on the gnome desktop.15 • Firefox and the New York Times (by rotenberry at 2004-10-25 15:03:36 GMT)
I do not know whether the New York Times is the appropriate place to take out a full-page advertisement for Firefox. However, it seems clear from the comments that some readers are not aware that home delivery of the New York Times is available in every medium to large metropolian area in the United States. I live in a suburb of Dallas, Texas, and I pick up the NYT and the local newspaper every morning in my front yard.16 • Ubentu Propganda (by 808 on 2004-10-25 15:05:29 GMT)
People sure are pushing for Ubuntu. It keeps getting posted here, slashdot, and a few other places. I'm sorry, but Ubuntu just isn't great. It's just too bad some websites keep posting info about it in order to get people to recognize it. Even at slashdot, there seems to be little enthusiasm concerning this distro.17 • FireFox ad (by 808 on 2004-10-25 15:08:03 GMT)
Concerning FireFox, if they already made enough for the NYT, they should at least advertise in other news papers such as the LA Times and other major city papers.

But come on, advertising twice on NYT?18 • Firefox Ad (by Ann on 2004-10-25 15:47:26 GMT)
Imo, the NY Times was probably picked because it's thought to be the one people (and businesses) would be most likely to pay to see their name in; this *is* a fund-raising project. And a magazine or tabloid size newspaper page wouldn't hold as many names.19 • firefox ad (by Rich at 2004-10-25 15:57:31 GMT)
NYT does get a fair amount of attention. moreso than Financial Times In my opinion. However If I was to pick an American paper that gets read by corporate people who actually make the decisions on what will get used I'd have picked The Wall Street Journal.

But I'd say choosing one major from each continent(sans antarctica) would be a better choice even if it was more expensive.

Also Full page newspaper ads are the worst for notice/retention. When I see a page entrirely taken up by an ad I skip onto the next page.20 • Firefox & NYT (by d00m3d on 2004-10-25 16:00:53 GMT)
Why not donate some funds straightly to Firefox in supporting their development?21 • perhaps (by foo on 2004-10-25 16:03:35 GMT)
Perhaps the fact that NYT hits newstands in all major Western megalopolises (I didn't make up that word) and metropolises may have been part of the decision making process. Also, even if it were to be localized to New York State, the city is home to the highest number of Fortune 500 companies besides Houston, Texas. Catching the eye of some of the most influential businessmen and women in the world may be a most positive step.

Other than that, I would have advertized in Time Magazine or Wall Street Journal.

I feel appauled by Ladislav on the lack of mentioning the distro chooser I made, many angry faces at you >:( http://eedok.voidofmind.com/linux/chooser.html is the page for those who missed it..24 • No subject (by Wil at 2004-10-25 18:01:35 GMT)
1. I am sure that Ubuntu's Mr. Shuttleworth has the money to start a porn site if he desired to, but he chose instead to give away excellent Linux, free. One might question the revealed shoulders in the Ubuntu artwork (no female navels are seen), but one would be a fool to fault Mr. Shuttleworth's real and sincere intentions.

Here, we see a litmus test for how difficult it is to find a forum the artistic expression for his kind of thinking, the uniting of humanity. It's shameful to think we might have giving him ample reason to feel upbraided for having done so. Having ample finance does not exempt him from having sensitivities. I hope that this trivial debate has, in no way, diminished his enthusiasm for what has already become a distinguished project.

2. If bare flesh (mostly shoulders) is so offensive, why are XXX sites the most lucrative Web enterprise and why do they originate in all parts of the world? And, my goodness, what must Hollywood have been thinking when they let all of those women come to the Academy Awards, to parade upon the stage in such small shards of expensive fabric? I heard no one singing 'God, Dress America' then.

3. Even in the parts of the world whose leaders require their people to disdain flesh, you cannot tell me that the people don't try to see it. There is sufficient evidence to refute that hypocrisy.

4. Who among us had the hubris to elect a minority group such as Linux users to be censors, and what qualifies them to be so? Isn't there a small but noticeable contradiction in having long shown disdain for Microsoft's cloaking and veiling of their software? Suddenly, the defenders of an open source world are judges of that which should be concealed in art, protectors of the world's innocents from the sight of naked shoulders? Prior to his election, the governor of California appeared regularly, simi- or unclad, in front of millions in various art forms and he appears to have gained, rather than lost, credibility.

5. Do we really have the qualifications to speak of what other parts of the world may or may not approve? Are there not those who are better equipped to make such judgments? For example, does not the owner of Ubuntu live amidst the largest collection of diverse countries, languages, and belief systems in the world, many of which are far from being "westernized"? He also might know a thing or two. Or seven. If he choses the wrong splash screen, it would reflect one of the few venture mistakes he might have made.

6. How does the Pope explain the Sistine Chapel to visitors?

7. Are there not just as many parts of the world as are reputed to find the absence of garments repulsive who think Westerners wear far too many clothes?

8. The New York Times is a good newspaper, trusted by many. But would not the same parts of the world who might allegedly disdain Ubuntu art work also find it repulsive to see a Firefox ad in the midst of far more significant and intentional sexuality strewn throughout the pages by other advertisers?

9. Many of the very same places that where bare shoulders would produce instant coronary arrest also practice the stoning of women for adultery, clitorectomy and infibuation, make their women wear veils, allow men to have numerous wives -- more slaves than wives -- and generally take offense at anything that's happened since the 14th Century. I find a veiled or burkaed woman whose garments have been dictated by men far more offensive to look at than a scantly clad woman who has the right to choose to wear what she pleases. I, for one, shall not allow a Medieval mind become the arbiter of my artistic inclinations, nor even a tiny force in that direction.

10. Sliding off the path I have just beaten to death, it absolutely does, as has been mentioned, take at least three advertising impressions to install purchase desire in the human mind. That is why ad campaigns usually last 13 weeks, in most media. There are many and far better ways for Mozilla to use the advertising money they have collected. In fact, there are far better ways for Mozilla to use the money.

For those of you who now have fur bristling at the back of your necks, ready to snarl with your fingertips, don't add to this wave of proxy censorship by even implying I shouldn't say this. I am old, ill, and have fought, like many other veterans, for the right to do so.

So unless you have had your sense of irony surgically removed, smile, damn it.

Humanity to others,A Ubuntu user25 • @Wil (by Penguin on 2004-10-25 18:46:47 GMT)
You forgot number 11. : The popularity of the traditional art of belly dance in many of the oldest Muslim countries ;-)

Also, I'm a conservative Christian but I haven't paid much attention to the whole issue of those Ubuntu images of young women and men while I've been considering trying Ubuntu. I have found the case mostly hilarious only though maybe a bit embarrasiing to Ubuntu.

But then, on the other hand: also some very modern and liberal western people might indeed find that sort of default screen images unappropriate. For example, I could very well imagine that some women who are very much into feminism could think that pics of topless women are disgraceful, show disrespect to the human value of women and could reflect the chauvinism of the distro.

Summa summarum: values, cultures and individual opinions differ a lot. You may not be able to respect everyone and everyone's opinion. But it is part of the good human values and respect of others (Ubuntu philosophy) to at least try to.

As to the notorious images themselves, they are not used as default images in Ubuntu now, so what's the fuss about anymore? Besides, and like Wil writes, in many occasions and in many cultures, like fashion magazines and ads, you can often see much more erotic images. Time to forget this little and very insignificant incident? Or do some people just want to give Ubuntu bad publicity by talking about this small problem of some stupid images over and over again?

I say: forget the whole thing and move on, please.26 • ubuntu artwork (by Luk van den Borne at 2004-10-25 19:56:41 GMT)
I'm only saying one thing about this nonsense: It's just so damn hypocrite! Please stop yelling. The art isn't even half as shocking as some tv ads you are broadcasting at this very moment. It's about the distro's quality, not about its artwork.

Ok, this was more than one thing :)27 • Ubuntu -- again (by titiv69 at 2004-10-25 22:10:31 GMT)
What a discution about an ungly walpaper anyway.Like it or not it i will say it in french : c'est moche et laid.

see ultimatebootcd.org for a good example of multi-boot29 • No subject (by Wil at 2004-10-25 23:23:49 GMT)
I apologize for my recent Norse Saga. My wife says that, even though I only have 50 percent lung use, I am still long-winded.

A few people have ended their message with things they forgot to mention and I didn't get to do that. So I will.

Ubuntu is an excellent distribution. It is committed to a six-month schedule of getting even better. It is committed to remaining free. They send out free copies of the distribution by mail for the cost of the mailing. Get some for your schools.

The aid to the Debian community is direct. The developers at Ubuntu fix not only their own work, they fix Debian problems and send those fixes immediately to Debian. All who use any Debian or Debian-based distro benefit from that.

I have never been drawn to Gnome, but Ubuntu lured me there and I like it now.

For those who don't care for it, it is harmless, not trying to put someone out of business, and those who like find it to be an elegant solution to our computing needs.

The final thing I forgot to say is that this is a terrific Web site.

I apologize for my recent Norse Saga. My wife says that, even though I only have 50 percent lung use, I am still long-winded.

A few people have ended their message with things they forgot to mention and I didn't get to do that. So I will.

Ubuntu is an excellent distribution. It is committed to a six-month schedule of getting even better. It is committed to remaining free. They send out free copies of the distribution by mail for the cost of the mailing. Get some for your schools.

The aid to the Debian community is direct. The developers at Ubuntu fix not only their own work, they fix Debian problems and send those fixes immediately to Debian. All who use any Debian or Debian-based distro benefit from that.

I have never been drawn to Gnome, but Ubuntu lured me there and I like it now.

For those who don't care for it, it is harmless, not trying to put anyoneone out of business. And those who like it find it to be an elegant solution to our computing needs.

To ks: Thanks for the excellent and useful information, just now.

The final thing I forgot to say is that this is a terrific Web site. I continue to learn so much from it.

Thank you for allowing me to say these things.

Toward peace,Wil30 • I am so sorry (by Wil at 2004-10-25 23:26:47 GMT)
I am so sorry for the fumble-fingered double paste. That is truly embarrassing. I feel as though I am naked before the world.31 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 00:29:52 GMT)
Does ubuntu mean threesome? Or is it just one of those "SEX SELLS" approaches? Hmm...32 • RE: Sex Sells? (by JoeLinux on 2004-10-26 00:57:05 GMT)
To the one upstairs...I wonder what gave you you this stupid idea that Ubuntu has to resort to using sex to sell its distro. The fact is Ubuntu is NOT a saleable commercial product aka any variant of MS Windows. Ubuntu is FREE (as in FREE beer) for download! Like some like a meat-based diet, others prefer vegetarian.

A couple of half-nude pixies in no way is a public declaration of support for nudism or an attempt at degrading women.

To be honest, I have this niggling suspicion that those who ahve spoken up are either ashamed of their own bodies or are but a bunch of hopeless hypocritical wankers.33 • Ubuntu philosophy (by Penguin on 2004-10-26 01:43:19 GMT)
For those still wondering what the Zulu word "Ubuntu" means and why it's also an admirable philosophy for a (South-African) Linux distro here are a few links for your education:

“Africans have this thing called UBUNTU.It is about the essence of being human, it is part of the gift that Africa will give the world. It embraces hospitality, caring about others, being able to go the extra mile for the sake of others. We believe that a person is a person through another person, that my humanity is caught up, bound up, inextricably, with yours.

When I dehumanise you, I inexorably dehumanise myself. The solitary human being is a contradiction in terms and therefore you seek to work for the common good because your humanity comes into its own in belonging”.34 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 03:28:53 GMT)
I tried Ubuntu. Nothing special. It's all hype. Right after installation I enabled cpufreq applet and was amazed to find out that my athlon running at 138 GHz. Then it jumped to super-duper omnipotent 1013GHz.I didn't know linux can do that. Can I time travel with Ubuntu?35 • No subject (by Wil at 2004-10-26 06:30:44 GMT)
Yes. If you prove worthy.

Sorry your speed didn't increase a bit more. You obviously need to lots of computing power to vent your spleen. Perhaps the future in a better place for you.

Go, Joe Linux! Right on, Penguin.36 • ubuntu 'art' (by rob d on 2004-10-26 06:46:09 GMT)
ok.. so the name is from south africa.. and the 'art' of the wall paper is just screaming 'multiple sex partners' to me.. so i ask.. why is that comming out of a country with the highest AIDS ratio per population??bad taste if you ask me.. very bad taste..37 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 07:33:30 GMT)
So you don't like a distro because one applet doesn't work correctly? Or are there other things you don't like about Ubuntu?As for me, i'm going to try out Ubuntu soon (just downloading it) but it's still all Debian for me at the moment :)38 • To rob d (by Anonymous at 2004-10-26 10:14:53 GMT)
If those photos are screaming what you say they are at you, you must be driven completely mad by the other things in the world you must confront. I'll bet you can't even buy groceries because the tabloids and fashion magazines scream as a chorus.

And it's not coming out of South Africa. It's coming from the Isle of Man.

I have seldom read such a bizarre, sloppy, blindly intolerant attempt to connect completely unconnected things. You can't get HIV from toilet seats, Linux CDs, or looking at photos, rob.

You really must have a vivid and completely perverted imagination to foretell such a outrageous purpose for three people to be standing together. It sounds like an unfulfilled wish of your own.

Personally, from the makeup of your communication, I think you are just a recreational bitcher with a non-existent belief system, and you earmark your disdain for conformity with such indicators as leaving out capital letters, so you couldn't possibly be construed to be like the rest of those you call tasteless.

Some people have met this discussion with extremely thoughtful and well-intentioned words. Others have chosen to take their concerns or applause to Ubuntu. Still others have quietly produced many pieces of excellent art alternatives, as suggestions, and which have become a part of the beautiful collective stream of creativity that is flowing in and around this distribution.

And Ubuntu responded, within a few days, by taking down the unnecessarily controversial photos and replacing the defaults with something more appealing to those who were offended.

I'm concerned that there are deeper, more sinister motives behind the thrust of your thinking. The generalizations about South Africa and AIDS are telling.

I think you might be living in a universe of fear of your own making.39 • Ubuntu (by Luk van den Borne at 2004-10-26 10:17:36 GMT)
I'm going to give ubuntu a try too, as soon as HoaryHedgehog comes out. I'll wait for it to mature, iron out the bugs and include x.org. I am a fan of KDE, but Ubuntu certainly attracts me.40 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 12:58:45 GMT)
1. Yo anon, chill. Rob said the name Ubuntu was from South Africa, not the distro. Second, it appeared to be a joke. Not something that requires a thesis on your part.

Bottom line, the artwork was a really stupid idea coming from a distribution that hopes to become main stream. Now windows can brag that they are family friendly too.

In the words of Penguin, "move on".

2. The distro is not half bad, but it's not that good either. After testing it, I must say that it didn't make me want to make the switch to Ubuntu. Hype is good for any marketing campaign, but in this case it is just that, hype.

I feel that we, the Linux community, have now gone too far in the other direction. First there wasn't enough envolvement, now their are too many projects going on. How many live CD's, 50, 100? How many flavors of installable distros, 100, 200?

Come on people, stop reinventing the wheel. Pull it together. Don't start another project, join one. Unless you have a totally original idea, there is no reason to start out on your own. Join a team and help them to build the next GREAT distro. We have the resources to make something better and more usable than windows ever could. We can put in more man hours in one year than windows could in 20 years. Lets get it done.

Is Linux just a hobby.? Is it a novelty that will pass away in time? One great flash in the pan. Are we to be a foot note in the development of computing? So we got Munich to swich, what did that cost Microsoft, .0001% of their revenue?

By the end of 2005, we should have formed alliances with every major player not in Microsofts pocket. Show the hardware makers why it's important to make hardware drivers available to us. Increase market share enough that they will have no other choice than to offer support for out projects. We are not going to do that when we can't even get our own software to work on eachothers distros.

Pull it together people, or all this will be nothing but a waste of time.41 • Blond girl in the artwork??? (by Eddie at 2004-10-26 17:42:15 GMT)
Controversial Artwork?!... What-ever!... Who is the blond girl???42 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 17:44:10 GMT)
reading all this stuff on art... sould a Linux release be called "kill bill"? that don't make us sound like nice guys.43 • Ubuntu (by GWJ Mateo at 2004-10-26 18:44:01 GMT)
Are you guys really all ranting about a little bit of skin? I mean, seriously. Much better things to talk about-like the upcoming US elections, the global spread of Aids, Halo 2, and the World Series!

I'm D/l'ing it, give it a shot. One for humanity baby!44 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 19:10:43 GMT)
Quote: • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 07:33:30 GMT)So you don't like a distro because one applet doesn't work correctly? Or are there other things you don't like about Ubuntu?

My rule of thumb is this: If during the first hour of trying new distribution I discover two inconsitencies that distribution is not worth my time. Reason being if they can't get stupid applet to work properly what else did they scew up. Ubuntu was one of the rejected within ten minutes. Just yesterday I looked at SUSE 9.2 livecd. It got canned as well. Reason: SUSE couldn't even get my network started (eth0-e1000, eth1-sis900). If Novel can't figure this one out how much can you really expect from them?45 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 19:32:25 GMT)
So a distro doesn't work with your hardware and you don't have time to figure out why. Maybe it is...um, unsupported? Driver issues are well known, and the fact that MS is able to make companies submit info and or drivers for windows rather then or in addition to Linux says only how much of a monopoly MS is, rather then how poor a distro SUSE or any other one is.46 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 19:39:19 GMT)
e1000 in other words is intel gigabit NIC. It is suported. And sis900 also very well suported. Knoppix BTW has no problems with my NICs.47 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 19:43:18 GMT)
If you have to start "figuring out" from the word GO it is in your best interest to look for something more reliable.48 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 21:07:49 GMT)
Hey, I'm pretty stupid about this stuff but I got that Ubunto to duel boot one one box with User Linux. I got it to tripel boot on another box with XP and Mepis. And it went right on an old IBM lap top ... 366 i think and nothing ever works on it. It even picked up the cheap-a** wlan card that even XP couldn't never figure out. Everthing works, everything updates with apt. Works pretty good for me.....

i thought this place was suppose to be about Linux, not bad-mouthing eachother. Bet old Wierd Willy at micro$oft rent a system is laughin now.49 • Firefox Ads (by Obfuscated on 2004-10-26 22:28:09 GMT)
I agree with the sentiment that advertising in one particular country, in a particular city, is a bad idea to say the least, for an international project.

Oh, Ladislav, America is a Continent you know ! The US of America is a country. For people who happen to have been born in other countries of this continent, well, it is a bit disappointing to be ignored like this. Sort of like if Germany would claim the name Europe ;-)50 • RE: ubuntu 'art' (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 22:42:57 GMT)why is that comming out of a country with the highest AIDS ratio per population??

It isn't. As another poster said, it's coming from the Isle of Man. Besides, South Africa doesn't have the highest ratio of AIDS per person. Botswana does (last estimate I know of was around 35%).51 • More about Ubunt (by Anonymous Penguin on 2004-10-26 23:29:40 GMT)
Problems with the artwork? I couldn't care less.What I don't like is what they have done to Debian.Taking a snapshot of Debian Sid and freezing it for six months? That is the craziest idea I have ever heard.Their own repositories? Whilst the idea is not new and can have positive sides, a true Debian user can't like it.And what was the idea of changing the (beautiful) default Debian Gnome beyond recognition?Last but not least where is the Debian folder in the menu? Where do you find the new apps that you install?52 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 23:41:15 GMT)
If you want debian use debian. Don't tell ubuntu to be exactly like debian.53 • slow day for Linux flame-fests? (by gnobuddy at 2004-10-26 23:43:14 GMT)
Geez, all this fuss over three semi-clad models? What happened to all the usual Linux flame-fests over completely trivial things - Gnu/Linux vs Linux, emacs vs vi, KDE vs Gnome, Open Source vs Free Software? :)

Conservative reaction to partial nudity - It never ceases to amaze me. There are now 6.3 billion people on the planet. Most of them (except for the ones raised by wolves in the forest) have seen other nude humans. To my knowledge, none have died, gone mad, or been shattered by the experience. Why on earth make all this fuss?? When the Janet Jackson "scandal" made waves, the country was mobilized to a fever pitch of angry opinions. Stealing an election, walking all over the Bill Of Rights, and starting two wars based on lies told to the American public did not stir up half this controversy.

-Gnobuddy54 • Re:No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-26 23:41:15 GMT) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2004-10-27 00:48:41 GMT)
If you use something which has been created by others (Debian) you should also show respect for it.Two examples:1)Linspire: there have been never ending arguments in the past that Linspire 'abuses' Debian. And yet it is clear to everybody that they are something entirely different. They aren't trying to make a clone of Debian.2)Libranet: I have never heard a complaint from a Debian user, and that is because Libranet respects the spirit of Debian. That is also true of most liveCDs (Knoppix, Mepis, Kanotix...): at the end of the day they are nothing but Debian.Concluding: you can customize Debian, but you should always show respect for it: it is, after all, the mother of your distro.55 • SuSE live DVD distro (by Anonymous at 2004-10-27 02:29:10 GMT)
At last a distro that can be burned onto a mini-DVD-R!At 1.3 GIG, it can comfortatably fitted onto a 1.4 mini-DVD, thus making it a "real" pocket LIVE distro. I burned it onto a cheap DVD-R [5"] first, to check it out. Up till now, I was using 3", 200MByte CD-R/RW, but they can only hold small distros like SLAX, MINI-Knoppix etc. This mini-distros are excellent, but it seems a waste to use a mini-DVD-R/W on something that is just too large for a 200 MB mini-CD. What a great idea! I would be great if someone could post some info on how to remaster an ISO in Linux, without making it overly technical. Or a generalised interactive script that could work with just about any Linux distro.

I buy SONY mini-DVD-R's for AUS $14.95, and the mini -DVD-RW's are AUST $22.95. They are meant for use on handycams, but work well in most PC-DVD's. But they are expensive compared to the normal size DVD-R/RW's. Does anybody know of a cheaper / reliable source of quality mini-DVD's.?56 • Ubuntu LIVE-CD (by John Coombes at 2004-10-27 03:46:02 GMT)
Everyone seems to have missed this ? Probably because it was Issued a day or two after the installer ISO's. There is also a Ubuntu (Warty) LIVE-CD ISO's that one can download, cut to a CD and use to try out Ubuntu with out installing it first. In fact I am using it at this very instant to write this :-) on my AOpen Laptop (like an Acer). When one boots the CD there is a mune with quite a few boot up options, the fisrt (default) option worked for me with my offically Linux un-supported Laptop :-) - ALSO one will notice that the LiveCD ISO is much larger than the normal Warty ISO's - this is because there is also about 100 Mb of Open Source software for MS-Windows on the CD (from the OpenCD project). I you have auto-run on when you insert the CD in MS-Windows a menu screen pops up and you can install this software. - Persnally I think this is such a good idea having this additional Windows Open Source software on the CD as even if the End User is not ready to install Ubuntu yet, Open Source software is being premoted. - BTW I got my LiveCD from the first (primary) download site.57 • Ubuntu LIVE-CD - Follow up (by John Coombes at 2004-10-27 04:14:20 GMT)
(1) it seems that all but one of the download sites have the Live-CD ISO (2) when using the LiveCD the default background wallpaper is just plain color58 • Debian Menu and Respect (by anon on 2004-10-27 07:18:02 GMT)
I am glad that there is no Debian menu in Ubutu. For a distribution aimed at the not so safe user it is important to use a simple, clear menu (like Mandrake or ... Ubuntu). But it is also important that it auto-updates when you install some new apps.

In Ubuntu many important developers of the Debian distro are involved, working on both sides. Given the fact at which extent their work on Ubuntu goes back to Debian as some has noted in other comments it is nonsense to charge Ubuntu not to respect their "mother-distro". And if they don't know how to treat Debian respectfully, who is Anonymous Penguin to decide which is appropriate and which is not?59 • Ubuntu (by blueheeler at 2004-10-27 10:07:31 GMT)
Just a short comment: I'm a KDE fan, not Gnome, so Ubuntu is not my type of distro - BUT - it gets my sound chip (Via chipset on the motherboard) working out of the box - I have found NO other distro that can! and support forums have been unable to help either - so full marks to them!

Oh, yes, I fully agree with the previous poster who suggested we need people to pull together now , some diversity is good - but too much is not.60 • Re:Debian Menu and Respect (by anon on 2004-10-27 07:18:02 GMT) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2004-10-27 15:00:24 GMT)
"And if they don't know how to treat Debian respectfully, who is Anonymous Penguin to decide which is appropriate and which is not?"

Just a Debian user who feels that Ubuntu has the taste of a fork (contrary to any previous Debian based distro)61 • Ubuntu Linux (by Topbarhive at 2004-10-27 17:33:18 GMT)
I've used it, I like it, I've got several CD's coming to give it away to a bunch of friends, Didn't know about the LiveCD, will now end this note, to download it...62 • Ubutnu (by Mike on 2004-10-27 19:43:52 GMT)
The pics would obviously hamper i10n. The Gnome HIG says not to use images of hands or feet - presumably because you never know what they might mean... So entire people are obviously out.

What I personally don't like about Ubutnu is how commercial it feels. There's been loads of hype, a lot of which comes from people who run Linux news sites (not this one though). There's a mysterious rich bloke running the show. Bill Gates told me never to trust an OS created by a rich man. And the nekid peeps look like good, old-fashioned marketing, aimed squarely at American men.

Still, I'm in the market for a new distro, so I may try this, but I'd prefer something compatible with Debian.63 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-27 19:55:34 GMT)
Well, well, well. I download the live Ubuntu and find it's on a Morphix base.

I download Gnoppix 8.2RC2 and find it's ALL Ubuntu, even the repositories. And Gnoppix 8.2 will be called Warty.

Interesting. Sounds like cooperation to me.

So if you don't like Ubuntu, and you like Gnome, download Gnoppix, and you'll get to try Ubuntu without your neighbors knowing.64 • Re:Ubutnu (by Mike on 2004-10-27 19:43:52 GMT) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2004-10-27 20:03:55 GMT)
"Still, I'm in the market for a new distro, so I may try this, but I'd prefer something compatible with Debian."

Try Libranet. It is fully Debian compatible and there is no hype around it: just a good, solid OS and a very nice community.65 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-27 20:49:11 GMT)
"There are now 6.3 billion people on the planet. Most of them (except for the ones raised by wolves in the forest) have seen other nude humans."

Well, let's be honest. We ARE talking about geeks, after all.66 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-27 21:37:01 GMT)
"Still, I'm in the market for a new distro, so I may try this, but I'd prefer something compatible with Debian."

If you add just two Debian repositories to Ubuntu, you not only have Ubuntu, can can make watever Deb combo you like, like add KDE3.3, other GUI's, other updates. It's easy, I tried it ust for fun (it was fun).

You begin with a quick install of Ubuntu, which is a solid Debian-Gnome base, add a few repositories, and you may have that cool Deb distro you've been looking for. 'Course, then it'll not really be Ubuntu, but what they hey . . .

And if you go into Synaptic and set change your preferences from "ignore" to "unstable" you'll always be out there, bleedin with the best of us.

Disclaimber: I'm not with Ubuntu. You can do the same thing with UserLinux, MEPIS (a terrific Debian-based distro), or with just about any other Debian-based johnny-come-lately.

Personally, I went back to the original Ubuntu install (I'm a first-time Gnomer and I'm likin it), just to see where it all leads. Kinda fun.

Some people will probably come on and say, Nah, don't do that you'll screw up something. But itsn't that what nice about Linux (especially, Debian). You can screw it up yourself, it doesn't come screwed up, pre-installed, like Winders.

Have a great, sunny, fall day.67 • NYTimes (by hughesjr at 2004-10-28 06:41:31 GMT)
The NY Times is the third largest circulated newspaper in the USA ... with more that 1.2 million daily deliveries. It is available in most major World Cities, and in almost every US City. The New York times is not limited to New York ... Newsweek sold 3,148,379 for the entire year of 2003 ... where the NYTimes sold more than 43,000,000 copies during the same time frame.

If you are going to advertise in the US and in a newspaper, the only two with more readers are USA today and The Wall Street Journal.68 • RE: NYTimes (by ladislav at 2004-10-28 07:21:51 GMT)It is available in most major World Cities.

Have you ever travelled outside of the US? I've been to over 50 countries, but I don't recall ever seeing a copy of New York Times on newstdands in any country.69 • Re: Robert Storey's KANOTIX review. (by Wil at 2004-10-28 10:40:55 GMT)
Re: Robert Storey's KANOTIX review.

Great article, Robert. Just great. Right on.

And right on, KANO, who never fails to make it better. KANOTIX is probably the best, least know-distribution out there.70 • Gnoppix Ubunutfied (by Anonymous on 2004-10-28 11:19:17 GMT)
"linuxbeta writes: Gnoppix 0.8.1 now appears to be Ubuntu Linux based, although this has not been confirmed. At OSDir, we've got over 50 screenshots of the Gnoppix 0.8.1 release, including the controversial Ubuntu desktop background images."

The currently-available download of Gnoppix 0.8.2RCD2 is called Warty and looks exactly like Ubuntu, including the absence of the controversial wallpaper.

First you must setup /etc/apt to use pinning: you cant use two Debian branches without pinnining.

Then you must dist-upgrade, after you get rid of your Ubuntu repositories in your sources.list (in order to avoid conflicts)Use preferably "aptitude dist-upgrade"Yes, it can be done, but is it worth it? And in the end you have a Debian system, not Ubuntu any more.72 • Kanotix (by Outsane at 2004-10-28 18:44:16 GMT)
I am glad to see a full fledged review of my favorite Linux Distrobution appearing on Distrowatch today... it didn't focus on Kanotix as much as i'd have hoped, but to summarize, all the basic points are there- it is very well optimzed for Hard Drive Installation, it has excellent Hardware Support, Synaptic is godsend for package management (and for some reason synaptic doesn't work well with HD installs of knoppix)

Kano is really wonderful, he even SSHed into my computer once to create a custom cd for me... i still owe him for that ;)

I've used a few different distrobutions, and to put it simply- Kanotix is the most well-done distrobution i've run across.... now if computers pre-shipped with Kanotix instead of Linspire, The world would be a perfect place :)73 • Thanks for the tips folks. (by Mike on 2004-10-28 23:15:03 GMT)
I've got some downloading to do... :)74 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-29 01:59:04 GMT)
"We must tell Mike the whole story."

Nawh . . . you make it sound so haaaaard. Actually, you can do it all with the settings inside Synaptic.

I used to hate that program. But they've made some nice advances. Leaves aptitude in the dust.

Point-and-click Debian updating? Yep. Is it worth it? That's a question that's never worked well for me. Probably why I'm poor, old, and ignorant.

Kanotix is another way to go. Or MEPIS. Or several others.

But "pure" Debian stable? Sure not the distribution I'd be handing out at high schools.

Anyhow, we're all in this together, no matter what distro we use. But the dialog is really good, I think. Learned a lot this week.75 • Kanotix (by d00m3d on 2004-10-29 02:07:00 GMT)
Robert's review is very good and Kanotix is great. But...

Unfortunately, the latest Kanotix release has its downside, the inclusion of the 2.6.8 series kernel! You'll be mad with your CD writers or certain SCSI devices because you soon realize they will not work, unless you are root. See http://lwn.net/Articles/97552/

It seems any distros with 2.6.8.x kernel suffer from the same problem. You must either upgrade or downgrade the kernel to get rid of the problem!76 • RE: NYTimes (by ladislav) (by John Coombes at 2004-10-29 06:12:42 GMT)
You Wrote:- It is available in most major World Cities.

Have you ever travelled outside of the US? I've been to over 50 countries, but I don't recall ever seeing a copy of New York Times on newstdands in any country.

End Quote

Usually it is ONLY ever found at newsagents at (1) the Main Airport (2) Main Railway Station - if you never checked them out but only local newsages or Provincial Airports or Railway Stations ? then of course you will not find it - You just gota know where to look. And not every MAJOR City in the world will carry it. and when they do its usually a day or two old anyhow :-(

BTW - I never read it myself77 • RE: NYTimes (by ladislav) (by hughesjr at 2004-10-29 10:52:10 GMT)
ladislav said - "Have you ever travelled outside of the US? I've been to over 50 countries, but I don't recall ever seeing a copy of New York Times on newstdands in any country."

Yes, I have traveled to many places outside the US. I spent 20 years in the US Navy and visited many countries all over the world (in Europe, Asia, Australia, Africa, and the Middle East). In almost every place I stopped, I found a copy of the NY Times. (This was admittedly several years ago ... I retired from the navy 7 years ago and haven't been outside the US since then).

---------------I wasn't suggesting that there aren't any number of other newspapers in the world that wouldn't also be a good choice, just that the NY Times is one of several newspapers that is read world wide.78 • RE: New York Times (by ladislav on 2004-10-29 11:17:05 GMT)NY Times is one of several newspapers that is read world wide.

Sorry for being blunt, but this is nonsence. Of the US newpapers the only ones widely available outside of the US are International Herald Tribune, Wall Street Journal and USA Today. You cannot buy New York Times anywhere, not even at major airports. It just doesn't ship outside of the USA, period. Honestly, I don't know where you guys are getting this idea that New York Times is a world-wide newspaper. It is not - it is a US newspaper, not available to people outside of US.

The only thing that comes close (and maybe that's where you guys are getting confused) is the International Herald Tribune. International Herald Tribune is, essentially, an amalgamation of news stories from New York Times and Washington Post, with more international coverage. But it is NOT New York Times. I doubt that an advertisement published in New York Times will also make it to International Herald Tribune (but I might be wrong here).
79 • RE: New York Times (by John Coombes on 2004-10-30 04:40:22 GMT)
Ladislav wrote..... it is a US newspaper, not available to people outside of US.

OK Ladislav - I eat humble pie80 • A distroholics top 7 - for now anyway :o) (by mikkh at 2004-10-30 23:22:28 GMT)
I've got a fast connection, time on my hands and a curiosity that needs feeding regularly, so I install at least one distro a weekjust to see what's on offer. I've only (!) got 7 Linux partitions, so I have to be cruel about what stays and what can make room for the next installation.

Distros are like cars, some you love immediately and forgive the odd foible, some you grow to love because of the time spent making them work, and some just keep getting better as you use them and become lifelong friends.

3 of my partitions regularly get formatted as I try new distrosbut 4 *have* to stay and that 4 may become 5 as Mepis grows more and more on me each time I use it.

The must have's, maybe predictably, include the rock solid Slackware 10, and maybe surprisngly NOT Gentoo. I'll go through so much pain in the interests of furthering my Linux knowledge, but waiting hours and hours for programs to compile is not my idea of fun. I did install it to prove I could do it, but I was left with a severe feeling of anti climax when it came to running it on a daily basis.

Yoper is one of those ones that grew on me, and the latest 2.1 version is excellent and not being formatted to make way for anything - unless it's 2.2 maybe

The real reason for all this waffle is to bring your attention to a distro that seems almost unheard of, yet has just celebrated it's 9th year of being a Linux distro. I'm talking about Conectiva, especially Conectiva 10. Easy to install, fast and pretty, this brazillian based distro is as near to perfect as I've seen yet - and I've seen lots.

Former respected guests include Lorma, College, Libranet, OneBase and PClinuxOS81 • No subject (by Anonymous on 2004-10-31 22:18:37 GMT)
Are there any profesional software testers who write distro reviews? It seems like every write up can be distilled to several sentences like "Install went well. I clicked around for 5 minutes. Looks OK. I'll give it 9 out of 10 because I didn't like wallpaper". I just read a glowing review of Mepis. Reviewer seemed level headed. He likes Linux as much as Windows. Which is a good sign, since linux zealots seem to have very high tollerance for linux inadequacies. So I went ahead and installed it only to find out that Mepis doesn't boot from SCSI harddrives. However it does alow to install on SCSI harddrive. Do you see why I'm not so impressed with Linux people: Abundance of technical expertise and lack of common sense. And these examples are too numerous to mention or even to remember. Mepis people if you reading this- Thank you for wasting my time.82 • kanotix and cd burning (by outsane on 2004-11-01 10:04:41 GMT)
kanotix even at bughunter 8 included a patch for the cd-burning issue. running k3b setup does allow any user to use k3b wevn with a 2.6.8.1 kernel.