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I did get my facts wrong/confused about Louisville and Catholics. The story I read was that Louisville is the oldest inland diocese.

From the always reliable Wikipedia:

While Louisville is the oldest inland diocese in the United States, it is not the oldest west of the Appalachians. That distinction belongs to the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of New Orleans founded under Spanish rule in 1793.

I promise you one thing you will NEVER be able to prove there is not a GOD, nor will I be able to prove that there is a God. I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. When I die if I burn out like a light bulb, so be it. I do not fear death. That is not the reason for my faith in Jesus Christ. I would have rather known Him while I lived and tried to help the poor and feed the sick. I work for a organization that brings food to Cancer patients and people that have AIDS. When I visit them, I give them the good news of Christ. I never tell them that this is it, and when they die there is no hope for them.

You may call me a fool for having faith in God, but I would rather be a fool then not have known the greatest love that anyone can experience. That love has made me a compassionate person that is able to give of myself to help care for others that are less fortunate. Call me stupid, but to see hope in a person's eyes that is dying is a wonderful thing. It is the greatest love one can give to someone. I am happy that I am able to open my heart to people in need, and to have been with many holding their hand as they pass, and showing love to them. I could not do that with out Jesus Christ.

I am not worried about being the center of creation. My faith in God comes from service, and the love I can show people while I provide that to them. We all are vessels for God, and I prefer to help others while I serve the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matty you do not have to believe in God, but I would hope that you would show some respect to others while participating in a forum that is open to all kinds of people. Explicit talk about Jesus on the Cross is really uncharitable, and I have not insulted or tried to offend you.

There are a lot of people that believe in God that participate in this forum. I however am one of the only ones that will speak up for God. If you have no innocence it is hard to have faith. The secular world will empty you and leave you hopeless and upset on how man has lead you wrong. After a while your appreciation for you surroundings will be empty. You will turn inward and seek self pleasure, but never find it within yourself. Only unselfish love that is giving to others can fill that void. If a person does not share that love, he will be empty and after awhile lose his faith in everything. God is serving people and if you serve it in His name you will see Him in other people.

Well Matty one thing is for sure we WILL find out won't we....I am sticking with JESUS.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

I promise you one thing you will NEVER be able to prove there is not a GOD, nor will I be able to prove that there is a God.

I was wondering how long it would take you to trot out the old "you cannot disprove the existence of god" cannard. I've gotta give you points for accepting that you cannot prove his existence, however. The little seed of doubt lays inside your mind. There might still be hope for you.

I do not need to disprove the existence of a supreme personality. But the evidence to hand suggests most strongly that god's existence is extremely unlikely. Highly improbable and it is reasonable, therefore, to assume that he does not exist.

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I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. When I die if I burn out like a light bulb, so be it. I do not fear death. That is not the reason for my faith in Jesus Christ. I would have rather known Him while I lived and tried to help the poor and feed the sick. I work for a organization that brings food to Cancer patients and people that have AIDS. When I visit them, I give them the good news of Christ. I never tell them that this is it, and when they die there is no hope for them.

And I have a personal herpes infection. I've gotta tell you I think it vastly preferrable to your recurring irritation.

I must disagree with you about one thing. You do fear death. Your irrational acceptance of christianity is evidence of that. Why else would you cling to such a ridiculous world view? Your deep seated desire to persist for eternity suggests most strongly that you view the coming darkness with great trepidation.

And the fact that you pester the dying with your silly myths and stories just to score a seat in a heavenly sky box only serves to emphasise this. Misery loves company and all that.

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You may call me a fool for having faith in God, but I would rather be a fool then not have known the greatest love that anyone can experience. That love has made me a compassionate person that is able to give of myself to help care for others that are less fortunate. Call me stupid, but to see hope in a person's eyes that is dying is a wonderful thing. It is the greatest love one can give to someone. I am happy that I am able to open my heart to people in need, and to have been with many holding their hand as they pass, and showing love to them. I could not do that with out Jesus Christ.

I am not worried about being the center of creation. My faith in God comes from service, and the love I can show people while I provide that to them. We all are vessels for God, and I prefer to help others while I serve the Lord Jesus Christ.

You may not be able to comfort the doomed without Jesus by your side but a lot of us can. Who are you to think that you've cornered the market on compassion and love? There is something desperately distasteful about your kind.

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Matty you do not have to believe in God, but I would hope that you would show some respect to others while participating in a forum that is open to all kinds of people. Explicit talk about Jesus on the Cross is really uncharitable, and I have not insulted or tried to offend you.

Ah! And here it is, the persecuted christian act. You people really are shameless. You have no hesitation in braying your world view at the rest of us but the moment someone dares to respond in disagreement you shriek about how outrageous it is.

It's a most curious feature of the hyper-religious. The very act of challenging your claims is denounced as unacceptable. I'm sure you and Bill Donoghue have much to talk about.

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There are a lot of people that believe in God that participate in this forum. I however am one of the only ones that will speak up for God. If you have no innocence it is hard to have faith. The secular world will empty you and leave you hopeless and upset on how man has lead you wrong. After a while your appreciation for you surroundings will be empty. You will turn inward and seek self pleasure, but never find it within yourself. Only unselfish love that is giving to others can fill that void. If a person does not share that love, he will be empty and after awhile lose his faith in everything. God is serving people and if you serve it in His name you will see Him in other people.

I've gotta ask one thing, why does the all powerful, all knowing Lord of Creation need you to stick up for him? This is a character who sent a flood to kill everyone on the planet (save for Noah and his kin), had bears eat some kids because they made fun of a bald prophet and let the devil torment Job just for the lulz. Surely when it comes to smiting the wicked he can do better than you.

Or maybe he's just into boring sinners to death these days. Shame really, I'd be more impressed with lightning bolts or at perhaps a tsunami similar to the one he used to flush the heathens of Indonesia, Sri Lanka, Thailand and surrounds out into the sea back in 2004.

Now THAT was impressive.

That said, I can assure you that I have no problem with religious sorts participating here. I have no problem with religious sorts expressing their ludricrous views. Y'all are called to evangelise, after all. But remember this, freedom of expression does not mean freedom from response. If you wanna preach go ahead, but understand I'm gonna get right in your face.

See that tag in my signature line? That's pointing right at you doll.

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Well Matty one thing is for sure we WILL find out won't we....I am sticking with JESUS.

Please do, but I hope you won't mind if I choose reason and rationality over the Cosmic Jewish Zombie.

Matty you do not have to believe in God, but I would hope that you would show some respect to others while participating in a forum that is open to all kinds of people. Explicit talk about Jesus on the Cross is really uncharitable, and I have not insulted or tried to offend you.

I submit that if it is deemed offensive to scoff and disregard the views of a devout Christian (or Muslim, or Jew, or Buddhist) when those souls post threads, it is equally offensive to preach The Gospel in a thread celebrating shiny, happy atheists.

Please do not assume we require saving. In return, we shall not assume you protest military funerals and think of AIDS as God's Punishment for faggotry.

I do understand that one of the main tenets of Xtianity is to spread the word. Like some organisms, it's central focus seems to often be perpetuating/reproducing itself. From a survival standpoint, I understand this. I have several organisms like that within me as I type, actually.

I have gotten along fine without a Bible-Based outlook, and if I were in a hospital and found myself trapped with someone "sharing the Word," I would have security haul them out. I can think of more selfish acts to impose upon the helpless sick, but not very many.

It seems clear that being Christ-Centered works for you. It seems clear that the fact that Matty (and others) feel the opposite causes you concern. I assure you that we are no less happy, no less kind, no less capable of astonishing good works and astounding cruelty. Myself, I am not so certain in my belief system or my incomplete understanding of the universe(s) to be anything beyond a strict agnostic.

I do not know what happens when we die. Haven't died. I don't know who or what created the universe. Wasn't there (or don't remember, if by chance it was me). And you know something? Some of us are fine without knowing. Happy even to live in a dimension where our monkey brains process maybe a sliver of reality, creating and manipulating concepts like time and physics so we don't go stark raving.

I fiercely love the creatures close to my heart, human and otherwise. And I mourn them with every atom when they pass. And I remember them, and I am both a better person for having passed through their lives, and a lessor person for having lost them.

I am cool with that dichotomy, that duality. I neither need nor want to create shapes out of the stars, or see my future in a book, or hold the hand of Jesus. I do not think less of you if you do, any more than I would think less of the Voudon Priestess I saw in New Orleans, or the Buddhist Monks trudging through Atlanta a few months back.

It would be refreshing if such tolerance and respect were reciprocated. Historically, I know i should not be holding my breath.

And as Matty says, we each have a freedom to express out viewpoints. If they are unduly rude (or in this forum, blatantly scientifically dangerous) the good moderators will hopefully intervene before too much damage is done (to goodwill, to the express purposes of this site, to the information and knowledge gathered here). But what seems to perplex some folks is that a discussion board also allows - even encourages - debate and dissension. In areas grounded in first-tiered peer-reviewed science, it boils down to research and the ability to interpret data. In matters such as this, it usually ends with an agreement to disagree.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Mystery I'm happy to hear your point of view. One point that with which I take issue is your insinuation that one must believe in Christ in order to truly care about other people. I care about other people and there are people of religions other than Christianity who care about people too. When you say thing such as "I am happy that I am able to open my heart to people in need, and to have been with many holding their hand as they pass, and showing love to them. I could not do that with out Jesus Christ" it makes it sound like a belief in Jesus Christ is a prerequisite for compassion.

Since you have shared your beliefs I will share the basic principals I try to adhere to. I prefer to call myself a humanist rather than an atheist because it most closely describes what I do believe, where atheism is a description of what one doesn't believe. Here is the Humanist Manifesto:

Knowledge of the world is derived by observation, experimentation, and rational analysis. Humanists find that science is the best method for determining this knowledge as well as for solving problems and developing beneficial technologies. We also recognize the value of new departures in thought, the arts, and inner experienceóeach subject to analysis by critical intelligence.

Humans are an integral part of nature, the result of unguided evolutionary change. Humanists recognize nature as self-existing. We accept our life as all and enough, distinguishing things as they are from things as we might wish or imagine them to be. We welcome the challenges of the future, and are drawn to and undaunted by the yet to be known.

Ethical values are derived from human need and interest as tested by experience. Humanists ground values in human welfare shaped by human circumstances, interests, and concerns and extended to the global ecosystem and beyond. We are committed to treating each person as having inherent worth and dignity, and to making informed choices in a context of freedom consonant with responsibility.

Life's fulfillment emerges from individual participation in the service of humane ideals. We aim for our fullest possible development and animate our lives with a deep sense of purpose, finding wonder and awe in the joys and beauties of human existence, its challenges and tragedies, and even in the inevitability and finality of death. Humanists rely on the rich heritage of human culture and the lifestance of Humanism to provide comfort in times of want and encouragement in times of plenty.

Humans are social by nature and find meaning in relationships. Humanists long for and strive toward a world of mutual care and concern, free of cruelty and its consequences, where differences are resolved cooperatively without resorting to violence. The joining of individuality with interdependence enriches our lives, encourages us to enrich the lives of others, and inspires hope of attaining peace, justice, and opportunity for all.

Working to benefit society maximizes individual happiness. Progressive cultures have worked to free humanity from the brutalities of mere survival and to reduce suffering, improve society, and develop global community. We seek to minimize the inequities of circumstance and ability, and we support a just distribution of nature's resources and the fruits of human effort so that as many as possible can enjoy a good life.

Problem is that "humanists" also sit on their great big asses permitting religious loonies to get away with most outrageous things.

That is the argument which my younger presents me with, that I need to be more confrontational and challenge superstition and irrational thinking. However rationality is only part of my outlook on the world, compassion is also important. I recognize that each individual is in the same situation: we all exist for a relatively short period of time and each person has to make sense their individual experience and impending death. So everyone, based on their culture and circumstances, is trying to make sense of it all. No one has all the answers, even those comfort themselves with the illusion that they do. I think we need to give people as much freedom as possible to explore their own existence, meaning and happiness while defending the freedoms of others to do the same. I completely support social justice, protecting human dignity, etc. however I think telling people their faith is irrational or criticizing their subjective experience doesn't promote human growth, reflection or happiness. Confronting people that their actions are harmful to others is completely appropriate and I confess I don't do that as often as I should.

I'm sure you will have folks stop telling you that you are wrong for what you believe, as soon as you stop telling others that their beliefs are wrong. It's really quite simple -- Do onto others.......

As a recovering catholic, I ask that you stop praying for me -- I don't want it and certainly don't need it. If you feel you must -- keep that info to yourself.

As an aside -- did I really read that you are comparing your life to Jesus with bearing your cross?? It's been a while since I've learnt of such things, but I think I recall that bordering on blasphemy. Better say a few Hail Mary's.

however I think telling people their faith is irrational or criticizing their subjective experience doesn't promote human growth, reflection or happiness.

Well this is where you go wrong. Faith is a terrible thing.

Faith is that thing which gives reasonable people permission to believe unreasonable things. It's not reasonable to believe that humans will be granted eternal life because some jew was tortured and killed.

It's not reasonable to believe that homosexuals are intrinsically evil because it's written in some wrongly translated book.

It's not reasonable to believe that women are less than men because a bloke called Paul fell off a donkey.

Faith is that thing which allowed Islamic believers to drive an aeroplane or two into some skyscrapers a few years back.

Faith is what gets Fred Phelps, Jim DeMint and Sarah Palin out of bed each morning.

I dunno, it may promote human growth - but is that growth worth the effort?

Personally, I don't care what spiritual beliefs any person may hold. However, I don't want those spiritual beliefs rammed down my throat either. I wouldn't dream of trying to impose my own beliefs on another person so don't do it to me.

I work for a organization that brings food to Cancer patients and people that have AIDS. When I visit them, I give them the good news of Christ.

Ah, nothing like preaching to a captive audience. If you did that to me, I'd be on the phone to your organisation to complain. I'd rather go hungry than have to listen to how I'm going to hell if I don't accept Jesus.

I never tell them that this is it, and when they die there is no hope for them.

No hope? If you cease to exist, then there is no hope or hopelessness. There's just nothing.

I don't believe we totally cease to exist, by the way, but I don't believe we continue to exist in anything remotely like our present form or consciousness. You cannot destroy energy, you can only transform it. I believe that what is commonly referred to as a soul is actually energy that will be transformed into something else upon our death. I don't claim to know what that transformation will be, nor do I particularly care.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

It's not reasonable to believe that homosexuals are intrinsically evil because it's written in some wrongly translated book.

It's not reasonable to believe that women are less than men because a bloke called Paul fell off a donkey.

Faith is that thing which allowed Islamic believers to drive an aeroplane or two into some skyscrapers a few years back.

I agree all those things are wrong and should be confronted as being wrong. I'm not willing to believe faith itself is always bad because the evidence doesn't support that. Faith motivates people do to good things too. That said, religious extremism IS a bad thing because it is oppressive not only to women, minorities, etc but because it restricts people's ability to ask questions, explore their existence and pursue personal happiness. My rule of thumb is the more an organization tells you it has the answers, the less credible and more dangerous it is.

Mystery, I also am a believer and I understand what you are trying to say. But really it was a tad bit strong for a forum like this where there are people who believe and people who dont.

Religion, or the lack of it, is a very personal belief, and FYI alot of people have strong reactions to it. I'm not telling you what to do or not do, but best not to stir the pot and let sleeping dogs lie and keep going. As the reality is you are not going to change anyone's mind.

I am a Christian, but feel I am not called to pray for you heathens nor have a desire to save your wretched souls. If you choose not to believe that is your choice, just enjoy the fire of hell for eternity. Of course since I have failed to evangelize and do all I could to save and pray for you, I might be right there with you.

On a serious note I agree faith is an important aspect of our lives. Some might call it hope but it is part of my every day existence. I have faith that the people that prepared my meal didn't just handle raw chicken before plating my dinner, or the pilot on the plane isn't two sheets from the wind, or the man that I am in a relationship with isn't fucking around (faith thing didn't work to well the first time around with this one).

The thought that there is nothing after death or that I will never see the ones I love again is not threatening to me , its incentive to live everyday and not take the things or people for granted that fill my heart full of love and joy .

If you need a person in the sky with a big stick to make you do the right thing for all other life forms that cross you path that works for me too , it might keep you from going nuts and ruining a beautiful day for something else slithering by .

I agree with you I don't come to these forums to debate Theology. Most people have not a clue about it and scoff at it and act like little children and berate the faith, but I guess they do that on a lot of other topics as well.... ....I come here every once and awhile to check news regarding HIV. While checking I find people bashing the Church or God in some form. I then find myself compelled to respond. Kinda like the guy who calls himself a recovering Catholic that questioned me when I talked about carrying my cross......My dear friend, if you read the bible it speaks that we should all carry our crosses. It's stuff like that which makes me shake my head and start typing.

I have seen many topics were the Moderator has had to come and break up a post because of bad behaviour. I along with many find this bickering to be very distasteful and some stay away from these forums because of some harsh members.

I do not dislike Atheists. I have a friend who is one and in my opinion one of the better Humanitarians I know. I don't come to this site to bash anyone. I just respond to people spreading things that are uncharitable and for the most part very untrue.

The world has taken the innocence from many people and when that happens people lose their faith in God. They then turn to science and claim their faith in that. Science will never discredit God. Science can answer some questions, but will never prove there is not a God. Science and Religion should work together.

God Bless you all and may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ protect you and give you peace.

I will continue to pray for the people in the Memoriam forum. Many have asked for prayers. In fact many people ask for prayer throught these forum. I will pray.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

I did not come to this site to preach. If you would look at past post on this subject I just commented on the eyes of the Atheist with the plate of cookies.

Matty then made reference to the Blood of Christ. This would not have turned into anything if Matty didn't challenge my faith. I have been very respectful in dialog with Matty. It is of my opinion that a good moderator should have stepped in and said something after a persons faith is attacked. There is a bias toward Christianity on this site and if one wants to bash a person of that faith it is OK.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

Not correct. That was just another case of defending the faith from people that were bashing the Pope. It is my right to defend the Church. I have always been very charitable on these sites. I WILL CONTINUE TO DEFEND THE CHURCH WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

I agree with you I don't come to these forums to debate Theology. Most people have not a clue about it and scoff at it and act like little children and berate the faith, but I guess they do that on a lot of other topics as well.... ....I come here every once and awhile to check news regarding HIV. While checking I find people bashing the Church or God in some form. I then find myself compelled to respond. Kinda like the guy who calls himself a recovering Catholic that questioned me when I talked about carrying my cross......My dear friend, if you read the bible it speaks that we should all carry our crosses. It's stuff like that which makes me shake my head and start typing.

So stop carrying on like such a twenty stone cry-baby. If you don't want your religion chewed up and spat on your shoes, keep it to yourself. Otherwise take what you get.

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I have seen many topics were the Moderator has had to come and break up a post because of bad behaviour. I along with many find this bickering to be very distasteful and some stay away from these forums because of some harsh members.

Yeah I know. Apparently there's a "cabal" of meanies who run wild around here stealing lunch money and mocking the righteous. If you see them at work be sure to tell teacher.

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I do not dislike Atheists. I have a friend who is one and in my opinion one of the better Humanitarians I know. I don't come to this site to bash anyone. I just respond to people spreading things that are uncharitable and for the most part very untrue.

Well you should dislike them. Atheists are total minge-flaps. Spreading their facts and telling the truth. It's the sort of thing that might catch on.

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The world has taken the innocence from many people and when that happens people lose their faith in God. They then turn to science and claim their faith in that. Science will never discredit God. Science can answer some questions, but will never prove there is not a God. Science and Religion should work together.

Just like priests took the innocence from all those little children, I suppose. Here's the good news science isn't interested in god, coz he's like bollocks.

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God Bless you all and may the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ protect you and give you peace.

Peace be fucked. How about hitting Jesus up for a cure already? Or aren't you that connected?

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I will continue to pray for the people in the Memoriam forum. Many have asked for prayers. In fact many people ask for prayer throught these forum. I will pray.

Praying for those in the Memoriam forum would seem to be a bit of a waste of time, given that they are mostly dead.

Not correct. That was just another case of defending the faith from people that were bashing the Pope. It is my right to defend the Church. I have always been very charitable on these sites. I WILL CONTINUE TO DEFEND THE CHURCH WITH RESPECT AND DIGNITY.

Where do you assume that I tell people they are going to hell. Are not you suppose as an Aministrator to set good examples on these forums. I don't tell anyone they are going to hell. I just show love to them, and if they want to talk about spirituality, I am happy to give them hope and share my thoughts. I don't preach to them, I just try to give as much love and understanding that fits their needs. Don't assume things about people you don't know.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

God has cured HIV with his son on the cross. You just refuse to take the medicine. .....The priest talk is a little old I am very much over it. I am catholic because of the Sacraments not because of some bad priest. I am there to try and make it better. There are problems every were. The Church handled the issue wrong, but I am not leaving the Sacraments. I love the Church.

Matty once again you and your Science will never prove there is no God. Heck, in a case of an Atheist you might want them to focus on better medication to keep you alive. They might want to figure out the terminal illness we all have in aging. Jesus has already cured that one.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

I find the defense of an organization that directly causes HIV infection through disinformation (condom use is taboo, condom's have microscopic holes and do not protect against HIV, Homosexuality is a sin, et al) is, well, indefensible.

I reiterate: The Catholic Church has killed millions, and continues it's practices each and every time it propagates disinformation about condoms, HIV, and homosexuality.

I consider the Christian Church (and any organized religion) as an organization to be anathema to the very civilization(s) it helped to create. I personally find it an enemy at every turn, when I am attempting to provide science-based non-judgmental HIV transmission information.

When I encounter young and terrified gay men who want to kill themselves - either directly or through hopelessness, drug and alcohol escapism, or complete disregard for their health as the direct result of the Church's teachings, I am reminded that this is not a benign topic at all.

I assume you will continue passively-aggressively baiting the forums until you get the very flamefest you invariably seem to desire here. Were Matty or myself to insert our opinions into a thread about religious belief started by a devout member, no doubt it would be called "bullying."

A phrase that has been used as a bludgeon around here lately to dissuade specific members, targeted for their strong beliefs and lack of reluctance to express them.

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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I work for a organization that brings food to Cancer patients and people that have AIDS. When I visit them, I give them the good news of Christ. ... I prefer to help others while I serve the Lord Jesus Christ.

...I'm curious if this "organization" you work for receives any sort of federal funding?

Because if it does, forcing these patients to listen to your "good news" in order to receive help is illegal.

Isn't heaven a bunch of white light where you don't recognize anything? My mother use to tell me it's all honey and cream as well. Sloshing around in thick sticky crap all day, bumping into fellow white lights and not knowing who they are?!?! What the hell is wrong with this picture? And why do people want to go there so bad for eternity?

You are, in my opinion, exhibiting the exact thing that pushed my from the catholic church -- it is also what makes me shake my head when I hear most christians talking about their religion. Quite simply, you pick and choose what to follow from the good book.

The most blatant one -- is the old "do onto others........."

You wish to be left alone to practice your faith, yet you will not do the same for us. Yes, you are trying to make it all seem that you are simply defending your faith, but look at what you write. When you talk about "praying for me" or wish me "the peace of OUR lord jesus christ....." you are NOT allowing anyone their own "faith" or lack thereof. For many people, actually for MOST people on this planet jesus christ is NOT their lord. He may be yours, but he ain't everyone's, so stop assuming that christians are the only folks on this planet who know anything. So -- go practice your catholicism, it is your right. I am sure it brings you comfort and I hope it always will. Someday we will all know the truth (or not, if in fact, dead means dead). Until then stop shoving your beliefs down my throat. Do not pray for me, do not wish me peace in the name of YOUR lord. Follow these simple steps and I will not take issue with you.

This thread is getting kinda heated ... maybe we should change the subject to how does Jesus feel about disclosure or about Jesus and the criminalization of non disclosure , you know guys , something less contentious that we all can agree upon LOL .

Where do you assume that I tell people they are going to hell. Are not you suppose as an Aministrator to set good examples on these forums. I don't tell anyone they are going to hell. I just show love to them, and if they want to talk about spirituality, I am happy to give them hope and share my thoughts. I don't preach to them, I just try to give as much love and understanding that fits their needs. Don't assume things about people you don't know.

It was a fair assumption to make, considering that any time someone has taken it upon themselves to give me "the good news about Christ", that "good news" has always included the "bad news" that if I don't accept Christ as my personal Lord and Saviour, that I will burn in hell. You say that you don't preach, but "sharing the good news" is just that. It's called evangelising.

My assumption was based on what you yourself said and I stand by my response. Yes, I'm a moderator, but that doesn't mean I can't have opinions nor does it mean I can't voice them when I see fit.

As for the Pope, he's fair game. He's a public personality - one who has looked the other way when the subject of peodophile priests is raised. That's pretty despicable in my book and I'm amazed you feel its morally right to defend such a man. Just because you have faith doesn't mean you have to follow blindly. Oops, my mistake, it does mean just that, doesn't it.

And I also totally agree with what JK said about the Church's stance on condoms and homosexuality. The Church is responsible for many deaths and many ruined lives. That's my opinion and not only am I well within my rights to voice that opinion, but I also stand by it and you cannot pray my opinion out of me, so don't even bother trying.

And try to remember that YOU came into an ATHEIST thread to promote your opinion of the Church. Just because many here disagree with you does not mean they're bashing you. They just disagree.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I got your call Ann but I won't get there till Friday, I have to go see a guy on Thursday with a Bible stuck in his A....um throat...

Mystery...I'm a catholic, I don't go to church very often because I have more faith in my family and friends than I do the church, they are the ones who will help me out in my hour of need..if you get by with your bible that's fine but please don't preach to us, Jonathon said it well when he said, "do not assume we need saving"

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

maybe we should change the subject to how does Jesus feel about disclosure or about Jesus and the criminalization of non disclosure , you know guys , something less contentious that we all can agree upon LOL .

Dangerous stuff. It will eventually lead to a debate about Jesus' opinion on oral transmissions. It is all downhill from there.

Yeah, yeah, god is great. Yeah, yeah, god is good. Yeh, yeh, yeh.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

And behold, Gabriel came down, and said fear not, I bring you tidings of a great burning, and you shall be a curse onto all men that sleep with you henceforth. And they shall call you dirty.

::dead::

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

.My dear friend, if you read the bible it speaks that we should all carry our crosses.

I'm pretty sure it says "we all have our crosses to bear"..it doesn't say that we have to drag our crosses up every damned street in the neighborhood or go into ever house and yell "grab that piece of wood and follow me, if you don't you will all burn in hell"...now that's the kind of thing that has me shaking my head.

Who says I need religion to have faith? That is the problem that I have with many religions, as if you are not a believer of their "religion" then you need either saving or smiting. I was reared a Catholic and the teachings of that church, did more to fuck up my life, both directly and indirectly, with their so called "teachings", than any other source of influence. When I got divorced, they annulled my marriage, because I was gay. When I objected, saying that annulling my marriage, would then make my daughter, a bastard in the eyes of the church, they said that was untrue. Yet, having a child out of wedlock, is termed a "bastard" by that very church. Nice double standard.

These experiences with a major religion, were the reason that I became an agnostic. What that means is, I do not believe in a god, because of my observations and analysis. It does not mean that I do not have faith, it is just that I know that faith comes from within and I do not need anyone to tell me how to live a fulfilling and moral life. My faith guides me just fine and I don't need anything, but myself, to navigate my life.

Where I have an issue with someone promoting their religion, especially one in which I am a deviant, is that I do not believe any of it and to be honest, it is incredibly rude. How should I expect someone to respond, if I were to approach them and insist on promoting a religion, in which they were inherently evil? Same thing on this forum. We come here to share our experiences and thoughts, not to discuss imaginary beings and if someone wants to do that, they should start their own thread.

I often wonder what happened to proper manners. It used to be that you kept your family, religion and economic status to yourself, right where they should be. When I post here, I do not want to have someone offer to save me from their genocidal god, without being insulted, as I should be, because you are telling me how to live my life. To me, that will always define rudeness to the nth degree.

Would you do me a favor and look at my first post. You will see that it was nothing more then a simple comment on a picture. Now, if you look down the post you will see that Matty started the conversation that lead me to defend my faith. I have been very charitable to Matty and have kept it that way. I find that many are failing to realize that I did not enter this chat preaching. I respect other people and their faith or the lack there of. I have never condemned anyone to hell or judged them for a lifestyle they live. I have just defended my faith. I don't have any issues with Atheist or Agnostics. In fact, I made a comment that stated a friend of mine is a Atheist and is one of the better Humanitarians I know.

Many including yourself act as if you know me and are ready to judge me. Don't pretend to know my thoughts it is very rude. The proper and polite thing would be to ask me my point of view. That is why there are so many issues on this site because people attack one another without giving them a chance to share their point of view.

I am not trying to save anyone. In fact, I can not do it. I love Jesus Christ, it is a big part of my life. I can not help that I have a positive attitude and love people. I have not condemned any of you. I accept and love you all, but I will stand up for my faith. As most of you would if someone came to this site and challenged you on an important issue.

Once again, I have NEVER came to these forum chats and started a conversation regarding my faith. I have just added to them and gave my perspective on the teaching of the Church.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

To fully understand the power of Jesus words ďtake up thy crossĒ we must first examine what he is not saying. The cross is not just bearing the difficulties and pains of life. Our cross is not a cantankerous husband or nagging wife; it is not that wayward child or that arthritic hip. Folks, we all have problems. Those who are saved and unsaved. That is a part of life.When Jesus spoke of the cross He spoke of death: dying to ourselves that we might follow Christ wherever He leads us. He is a picture of literally giving everything up for Him even our lives. Remember Jesus in the Garden saying, ďnot my will but thine will be done.?

The people of Jesus day were very concrete thinkers. When He spoke of the cross they knew exactly what he was speaking of as they had watched many poor soul marched to their death by Roman soldiers carrying their crosses. We all have struggles and if one is a Christian we are asked to glorify God with the suffering to unite ourselves with Him.

I hope this clears up what I meant' by saying we must take up our cross. Of couse, I never intended to say that our suffering is in place of the sacrifice that Jesus fulfilled on His cross.

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Atheist don't believe in GOD, but GOD believes in them and loves them. Never let the failure of man conflict with your love of GOD.

To fully understand the power of Jesus words ďtake up thy crossĒ we must first examine what he is not saying. The cross is not just bearing the difficulties and pains of life. Our cross is not a cantankerous husband or nagging wife; it is not that wayward child or that arthritic hip. Folks, we all have problems. Those who are saved and unsaved. That is a part of life.When Jesus spoke of the cross He spoke of death: dying to ourselves that we might follow Christ wherever He leads us. He is a picture of literally giving everything up for Him even our lives. Remember Jesus in the Garden saying, ďnot my will but thine will be done.?

The people of Jesus day were very concrete thinkers. When He spoke of the cross they knew exactly what he was speaking of as they had watched many poor soul marched to their death by Roman soldiers carrying their crosses. We all have struggles and if one is a Christian we are asked to glorify God with the suffering to unite ourselves with Him.

I hope this clears up what I meant' by saying we must take up our cross. Of couse, I never intended to say that our suffering is in place of the sacrifice that Jesus fulfilled on His cross.

Can we please return to the OP? If you want to hold bible study, please start your own thread. Any further hi-jacking is unwarranted and to me, just another form of bullying. Nobody asked you about your faith, we are talking about atheists here and just because your religion cannot tolerate scrutiny, does not mean you get to derail our thread. Nobody asked you to defend anything, so if you don't have something to say, in support of the OP...

I am not a fan of MYSTERY's style, however if you go back to the first few posts of this thread you will see that MYSTERY made the same comment that two other people made prior to his which had nothing to do with religion. Then someone made a comment that he took offense to and he gave a rebuttal. It is not entirely the fault of mystery. A vast majority of threads start in one direction and end up going somewhere entirely different.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2010, 05:03:55 PM by woodshere »

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"Let us give pubicity to HV/AIDS and not hide it..." "One of the things destroying people with AIDS is the stigma we attach to it." Nelson Mandela