If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

1. § 20-45.3. Civil unions between persons of same-sex.A civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage is prohibited. Any such civil union, partnership contract or other arrangement entered into by persons of the same sex in another state or jurisdiction shall be void in all respects in Virginia and any contractual rights created thereby shall be void and unenforceable.HB 751 IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL AND WILL HAVE GRAVE CONSEQUENCESHB 751 is poorly drafted and is plainly unconstitutional. In addition to civil unions, it expressly seeks to prohibit any "partnership contract or other arrangement between persons of the same-sex purporting to bestow the privileges or obligations of marriage." These words are astonishing both for their breadth and vagueness. While the bill does not define "the privileges or obligations of marriage," a U.S. General Accounting Office report has identified over 1000 benefits of marriage covering matters such as child custody; hospital visitation rights; health, property and life insurance benefits; taxes; inheritance; and property rights. Pursuant to HB 751, any contract or "arrangement" between persons of the same-sex concerning these matters would now be prohibited.
This bill will clearly have hundreds of negative consequences effecting gay and lesbian Virginians and their children. Thousands of children live in Virginia households with at least one gay or lesbian parent. The negative consequences to these Virginia citizens include, but are not limited to:

Possible loss of insurance. Some employers in Virginia (those that self-insure) offer domestic partner health insurance and other benefits to their employees. To use this benefit an employee must make an "arrangement" for his partner to take advantage of the health insurance. Because married employees enjoy similar such healthcare coverage through their employers, domestic partner benefits could be considered a privilege of marriage, and therefore could be viewed as unlawful under this bill. The harm this bill does is magnified when such invalidated arrangements include the biological or adopted children of an employee’s partner for coverage under a health insurance plan. Inevitably, this would increase the number of Virginians without private health insurance.

Same-sex couples often make "arrangements" concerning hospital visitation rights and many sign medical directives or medical powers of attorney for each other. These rights are automatically enjoyed by married couples and thus such rights are arguably a "privilege of marriage." These arrangements are therefore prohibited by the bill. Hospitals may even feel constrained to prohibit visitation. Opposite-sex or same-sex friends would have rights prohibited for same-sex couples. The absurdity of trying to determine the nature of the relationship highlights the irredeemable flaws of this law.

Same-sex couples with children often make "arrangements" for the non-biological parent to have legal authority to make medical and education-related decisions for their minor children. These arrangements are also voided under this law.

A person "arranges" in his will that his estate should pass to his same-sex partner and their children upon his death. If the couple were married this would happen automatically by operation of law. Because this can be viewed as a privilege of marriage, those provisions of the will are voided and unenforceable under this law. Again ironically, provisions in favor of anyone else (including presumably pets) could go unchallenged. It is also possible that joint tenancies with right of survivorship in a residence or a bank account, also incidents of marriage, shared by a same-sex couple, are voided under HB 751’s expansive and vague language.

The prohibition of any "partnership contract" adds to the negative impact of the bill.

Same-sex partners often sign mutual contracts that classify previously –acquired property as either joint or separate property, establish how after-acquired property will be classified, and agree on division of property in the event the relationship ends. Sometimes mutual wills are also executed in a contractual agreement.

Some same-sex partners, as with opposite-sex couples, are also partners in a family business. Clearly, the business would be governed by a contract that now would likely be invalidated by this unconstitutional bill.

Same-sex partners sign contracts with each other concerning plans for co-adoption of children and custody of their children if they separate.

HB 751 also has highly undesirable effects on Virginia’s business community.

Those self-insured Virginia businesses that offer domestic partner benefits to their employees may find such benefits are invalid under HB 751—particularly as these benefits are likely to be challenged as no longer valid by anti-gay groups. Such businesses, no longer able to offer domestic partner benefits, may find it difficult to compete in attracting and hiring the best employees, because businesses in other states cab and do offer same-sex couples health insurance benefits.

Businesses considering moving to Virginia may be deterred from doing so by this new law. This bill goes well beyond the oppression of gays and lesbians found in even the most intolerant of states. It sets Virginia apart as the single worst state for a gay or lesbian person to reside—so much so that many companies may decline to locate their business here for fear of losing their diverse workforces.

Because this bill also voids similar arrangements entered into in other states or jurisdictions, the bill will also have a negative impact on gay persons and their children who travel to Virginia for business or recreation from states or countries where they have equal rights:

The domestic partner benefits they enjoy in their home state, such as health insurance, may be voided in Virginia.

Hospitalization or medical decisions in Virginia may not take into account "arrangements" and directives made and enforceable in other states.

Child custody arrangements from other states could be void here.

Finally, HB 751 is going to place Virginia in a legal quagmire:

================================================== ======

I and everyone I know will be voting against this and Sen. Allen.
Your thoughts?

Re: A nightmare in the making???

It's not at all surprising that the legal community is overwhelming in favor of allowing gay marriage. Irregardless of their personal stance on the issue, allowing gay marriage would result in big business for lawyers in the way of pre-nups, divorce proceedings, etc. And not to stereotype too much, because there are some decent, well-intentioned lawyers out there, but it's commonly accepted that most of them would gladly sacrifice their principles for the almighty dollar.

Re: A nightmare in the making???

I wish I were registered to vote in Virginia... luckily local acitivists have been hitting the gay scene up pretty hard in DC. Every gay bar/club we've been to, there have been guys with clipboards asking people if they're Virginia residents and registered to vote. My hopes are that there are enough intelligent people in comparatively-liberal Northern Virginia to even out places such as, say, Lynchburg.

Re: A nightmare in the making???

Originally Posted by epicAdam

I wish I were registered to vote in Virginia... luckily local acitivists have been hitting the gay scene up pretty hard in DC. Every gay bar/club we've been to, there have been guys with clipboards asking people if they're Virginia residents and registered to vote. My hopes are that there are enough intelligent people in comparatively-liberal Northern Virginia to even out places such as, say, Lynchburg.

It may be more liberal in Northern VA, but as you go south, well lets just say it gets a little scary. As for Lynchburg, I would not hold my breath, Jerry Fartwell has a very large following and to top it off I swear all I see is smear ads from Allen. I just hope people here can see through the bull shit. But then again I will not hold my breath.

Re: A nightmare in the making???

I live in Virginia Beach, VA and there hasn't been an uproar by the gay community here. Hampton Roads is home to many active and retired military folks. They usually vote Republican and this is also the home of Pat Robertson and his network. I'm afraid that the vast majority of people here don't know the ramifications of this ammendment, and I'm sad to say it will probably pass.

My only hope is for a huge turnout in northern VA around DC and that the right will stay home due to the war, spending, Foley and corruption.

You see, you spend a good piece of your life gripping a baseball, and in the end it turns out that it was the other way around all the time.

Re: A nightmare in the making???

Originally Posted by smelter44

Here's my favorite picture of the old sourpuss.

Dude, that is SO tight!

(uh.... pun not intended -- but enjoyed)

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: A nightmare in the making???

Originally Posted by BoSoxFanVa

I live in Virginia Beach, VA and there hasn't been an uproar by the gay community here. Hampton Roads is home to many active and retired military folks. They usually vote Republican and this is also the home of Pat Robertson and his network. I'm afraid that the vast majority of people here don't know the ramifications of this ammendment, and I'm sad to say it will probably pass.

My only hope is for a huge turnout in northern VA around DC and that the right will stay home due to the war, spending, Foley and corruption.

How about printing out that comment material in the post above, and going around with it? Ask people if they're comfortable living with something that could ruin the lives of many of their friends and neighbors, without meaning to.

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "

Re: A nightmare in the making???

Ugh. Speaking of Liberty University, I have already written a letter to the President of Barnes & Noble College Bookstores protesting the opening of a B&N store at Liberty University. B&N is a pretty liberal company when it comes to gay employees and benefits, but to set up shop at Liberty University is disgusting. I will not cooperate with our store at Liberty University in any capacity whatsoever. Those fuckers can bite me. How a company which prides itself on its openness and tolerance can enter into a contract with a school that indoctrinates its students with such a narrow, intolerant view of the world is beyond me.

Re: A nightmare in the making???

Originally Posted by epicAdam

Ugh. Speaking of Liberty University, I have already written a letter to the President of Barnes & Noble College Bookstores protesting the opening of a B&N store at Liberty University. B&N is a pretty liberal company when it comes to gay employees and benefits, but to set up shop at Liberty University is disgusting. I will not cooperate with our store at Liberty University in any capacity whatsoever. Those fuckers can bite me. How a company which prides itself on its openness and tolerance can enter into a contract with a school that indoctrinates its students with such a narrow, intolerant view of the world is beyond me.

It's all about the benjamins, baby.

WHAT!?! Why the hell do they need to do that? There already is a B&N across from LU as it is. It's right next to a Christian book store and a BestBuy. I really do not understand why they would need to open one on the campus?

And Kulindahr printing this info out and carting around town would do little good because people truly DO NOT understand the ramification of this amendment. Not only will it completely screw all same sex couples it will also screw people that are not in relationships. Yet the local media here has not said word one about it. NOTHING!

Funny thing about this, I posted a thread about this very same bill about a year ago, and I was told that it would never pass, lol, people knew better. But looking at the situation now, I believe it will because yet again people are ill informed!

Re: A nightmare in the making???

They probably found 100 lawyers because it's an attention-getting number; the next is 666, which they wouldn't want, then 1000 or 1001, which they may not have had time for.

The whole point of printing the information in post #1 is that most of it is about what stupid things the bill will cause to happen -- exactly what people need to know! Introduce it with, "Have you ever done something to accomplish one thing, but it also causes other things that you DIDN'T want?" Of course everyone has, so then you say, "This bill is like that -- you might want what it's meant to do, but here are a bunch of things it WILL do that I bet you don't want at all." The appeal to personal experience gets their attention and serves as a bridge to getting them to see the point -- and you're in!
DO it, dude!

"Thirty-one* states allow all qualified citizens to carry concealed weapons. In those states, homosexuals should embark on organized efforts to become comfortable with guns, learn to use them safely and carry them. They should set up Pink Pistols task forces, sponsor shooting courses and help homosexuals get licensed to carry. And they should do it in a way that gets as much publicity as possible. "