I have to agree with you Angelo, about "obscuring the information" in the latest upgrade ... some of it is completely missing and the search engine is the worst we've ever had ... I don't understand why some of the materials were eliminate (were they not valid?) and others that I personally felt were far less important are featured and I have already said elsewhere - I really am put off by the "commentaries" which I find have stated expectations for the reader - before they are read - I also agree that they way that the materials are presented, change how they impact me - we all agreed (in the early days) that the information wasn't "new" just presented in a way that made what we already knew, more comprehensible - editing out the dogma ... now it seems to be leaning more towards the "programing" techniques of academia instead of the more rebellious and flexible conspiracy theorist's POV ...

This presentation leaves me thinking that the materials were never "controversial" in the first place - when they remain to be seen as a "hoax" by the majority of those who read them, which I believe was due mainly to the way the AA book introduced them. If you are just now discovering these materials, the book leaves you thinking that this background information isn't fictional at all (just metaphorical) - and that the others books, may not be either ... the format itself feels a bit overwheming (evidenced by the slow server) but it is probably due to all the graphics included/featured now, plus the PFDs that need to be downloaded to viewed in new windows ... it doesn't impact me as "plain and simple" anymore, it seems complicated and more challenging to the casual investigator - Impressive - is the word that comes to mind... along with "slick"

as for the Fifth Interview, being written recently ... I am inclined to believe that it was "edited" to include our evolving language but that it was still written at the same time as the other interviews, - didn't Sarah say, at some point that there were ten interviews ( ? ) that will probably never see the light of day - as well as more Philos (and LDs) that for some reason we aren't getting either, except for small excerpts - not to forget the Liminal cosmogony that interest me the most - included as "sound bites" in other materials (like FS transmissions) ... all I know is that I don't feel nearly as comfortable with the way things are formatted (which is understandable after 15 years of being in the same familiar form) - because when I go looking for quotes, I really have to hunt - whereas before I knew right where to find them on the page and the search engine made it easy to find all related materials ... and I already mentioned how useless I find the "search" engine ... why have a search engine if all it does is take you in circles?

all in all, the new website makes me more grateful for the way that I was introduced to the materials, one paper at a time, one album at a time - with sometimes years between "new materials" to give us time to digest or to "experience" the concepts that were introduced ... one website at a time, as well - I find myself getting "lost" in the new website - more often than not... even though nothing (that I can see) has been changed - its been re-arranged to the point where it is hardly recognizable in its new "museum-like" setting ... I believe that I understand why all the "furniture" was moved to a new venue - but it feels very sterile and "commercial" to me now - it is no longer a cozy comfortable place, it has become "branded" for mass consumption - with the BBB's (of spirituality's) stamp of approval (like the HMI's website) ... bottom line (for me) is that it feels more like a religion than ever. The CWW being the new illustrated Bible with comentary

_________________"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview

It's humorous to me, because I remember debating Alex about the definition of the Wholeness Navigator to no end, and by this time, having not kept up with the written works (stories) I no longer recognize some of the terminology being used! In many ways I'm glad I don't, it's almost as if I no longer desire the inundation of more information, I feel stuffed full.

Heh, the good ol days... Glad to see you btw.

Quote:

Does anyone else take small issue with Neruda's assertions that no other work (esoteric or otherwise) has disclosed the deception? I can think of a few, in fact this latest interview other than being a reminder (thank you) does not surprise me because most of what is discussed has been covered by others, such as the Nag Hammadi (Archons), Castaneda (The Flyers), and a handful of others such as esotericist Rudolf Steiner (The Arhimanic Deception).

I think the WMM material claims a monopoly in this disclosure regarding the extent of the deception. This was more emphasized in the 2008 project camelot interview, that even those who saw visions or thought they escaped, or thought they ascended etc etc, they were still operating within the HMS prison.

But yes, I also pointed out that the disclosure in itself is not unique.

I think the differentiating factor of the various materials is this: Ok, we live in a virtual reality / deception hologram. Now what? What is the way out?

In this, I think, the WMM is more complete than other stuff...

_________________The single most important thing we can do is to practice the heart’s intelligence in our everyday, moment-to-moment expressions.

lucky we have starduster who's old school to give us perspective from the old days... personally, I liked the old website better. I liked the dark theme (old website) better than the white theme (new modern website), the white theme for me makes it very official, whileas the dark had a feel of deep mystery, especially with those hidden pages, and I will never forget the person who introduced me to the wingmakers music & neruda interviews. The new website is glossy and shiny, whileas the old one was pure mystery, almost as if from space. I am glad I got introduced to the materials in 2010 (or was it 2011? I don't remember), imagine if I'd been on since '98. I've learned sooo much, it has enhanced my life, and this forum too, to see all the posts here is a superb extension of the WM website, this place is alive with practitioners and non-practitioners which makes it even more interesting, as I automatically assumed that this forum would have ZERO trolls, but I was wrong. Actually thanks to the trolls we get to test what we've learned, and it works. Super-Thanks to starduster for your stability, patience and coherence as it really helps me understand (& appreciate) the materials better - that's why I am here. Thanks also to other members who represent in the same spirit as starduster & the WMMs, you (we) are what make this place worth a visit

_________________To live in service of truth, you must first identify the layers of deception that encompass you.Nature is the "Queen" on the chessboard.

lucky we have starduster who's old school to give us perspective from the old days... Super-Thanks to starduster for your stability, patience and coherence.....Thanks also to other members who represent in the same spirit as starduster & the WMMs.....

It's humorous to me, because I remember debating Alex about the definition of the Wholeness Navigator to no end, and by this time, having not kept up with the written works (stories) I no longer recognize some of the terminology being used! In many ways I'm glad I don't, it's almost as if I no longer desire the inundation of more information, I feel stuffed full.

Heh, the good ol days... Glad to see you btw.

Quote:

Does anyone else take small issue with Neruda's assertions that no other work (esoteric or otherwise) has disclosed the deception? I can think of a few, in fact this latest interview other than being a reminder (thank you) does not surprise me because most of what is discussed has been covered by others, such as the Nag Hammadi (Archons), Castaneda (The Flyers), and a handful of others such as esotericist Rudolf Steiner (The Arhimanic Deception).

I think the WMM material claims a monopoly in this disclosure regarding the extent of the deception. This was more emphasized in the 2008 project camelot interview, that even those who saw visions or thought they escaped, or thought they ascended etc etc, they were still operating within the HMS prison.

But yes, I also pointed out that the disclosure in itself is not unique.

I think the differentiating factor of the various materials is this: Ok, we live in a virtual reality / deception hologram. Now what? What is the way out?

In this, I think, the WMM is more complete than other stuff...

Thank you Alex for your lovely simple and profound clarity. It's good to have you back here again as well. }

Most of the stuff in the last Neruda interview has been disclosed back in 2007 by the Desteni group. The fact that some people around here don't want to admit that doesn't make it less true. Desteni has produced hundreds of videos between 2007 and 2009 that makes this Neruda interview old news. Most of those videos can still be found on YT. If one studies the WMM and the Desteni material in parallel one will open up to a new level of understanding how deep the rabbit hole goes.

The key is not to keep an open mind and not see any of these two as the ultimate venue of knowledge.

Most of the stuff in the last Neruda interview has been disclosed back in 2007 by the Desteni group. The fact that some people around here don't want to admit that doesn't make it less true. Desteni has produced hundreds of videos between 2007 and 2009 that makes this Neruda interview old news. Most of those videos can still be found on YT. If one studies the WMM and the Desteni material in parallel one will open up to a new level of understanding how deep the rabbit hole goes.

The key is not to keep an open mind and not see any of these two as the ultimate venue of knowledge.

Well then Hann, why don't you pop right on over to that Destini group and discuss it with them? The 5th Interview is from 1998. YOU don't have to keep an open mind if YOU don't want to, however, your wasting your time here if that is your choice.

Well then Hann, why don't you pop right on over to that Destini group and discuss it with them? The 5th Interview is from 1998. YOU don't have to keep an open mind if YOU don't want to, however, your wasting your time here if that is your choice.

It's from 1998 if you choose to believe that I'm not interested in debating this with you. And I definitely don't need to be told where to go and what to discuss. There are other people around here that want to hear what I have to say.

Edit: Even if was from 1998, waiting 16 years to release the same exact info someone else said back in 1997 is kinda odd, dont' you think?

Hann this website was created to discuss the Wingmakers materials (exclusively) ... like it or lump it... it is what it is - with or without your participation and it is what you agreed to do when you joined this website

comparing the teachings of man (even when channeled) to the discovery of the LTO is counter-productive and self-defeating ... and only leads to confusion ... do you have any experience with using the WMMs that you would care to share with us ? ,the materials in the WM's website was discovered some 11,000 years ago and "seeded" into our Culture by the WMs ... but it has just recently become comprehensible to the HMS ... certainly you are aware that the desertini materials are all channeled, and designed to conceal consciousness via distortions repeated by unembodied entities( self-proclaimed Masters and Guides) created by Anu to inhabit the Astral Plane that he created along with Death to conceal our true origins and destiny an to misdirect and misinform "truth-seakers"

your believing - does not make information true - genuine truth can only be gained via personal experience - you are not the first nor will you be the last to join this forum to post your personal belief system (BS) that no one is really interested in discussing or comparing (not even in the desertini website eirher) ... besides we discussed the desertini stuff years ago ... its in the archives - if you care to research it ... choose whatever you want to believe ... the WMMs are not a "belief system" ... they do not require anyone's "support" they reveal what is Universally true - eternally ... nothing more, nothing less... believe it or not

_________________"...to know this information and then remain passive—a pure observer—is a programmed response, and that is not an answer to how do I best serve truth? It is a denial of truth.” 5th Interview

Whatever floats your boat Hann. Who wants to debate with you and why? There are people here who are well past the doubt in their mind that diverts them from the truth in their heart and can tell the difference.

It is possible that the AABook has extra layers after the Neruda 5 Interview...

I may be stretching it, or it might retro-fit, that Samantha is actually RVing the reality of us being in a simulation but not being able to really process it for what it is because it doesn't fit her belief system. She's like "but that doesn't make sense", or gets conflicting intuitions that the holograms are also the planets and not just a hologram (in a virtual reality scenario a planet is both).

“Cue on the purpose of the sphere,” Neruda ordered.“It’s a representation or model... no, it’s a holographicphotograph of some kind. Wow, there’re other planetsin this building—”“For now, keep your focus on the sphere thatrepresents Earth,” he said. “What’s the purpose? Whydo they have this on display?”Samantha was quiet for a few seconds as if she wasobserving something too immense to put into words.“It’s not a cathedral, it’s a... a warehouse of somekind... no, I’m getting the analytic that it’s a computerdatabase, but that doesn’t make sense—”“Stay in observation mode,” Neruda commanded.“Cue on the purpose of the sphere.”“I get a strong sense that this sphere is in adatabase... like an information catalog of potential life-bearing planets. These beings are like genetic planners,

(page 325)

Samantha’s face was expressionless as she began toreport what she saw. “I’m in a huge auditorium... itsdimensions would measure in kilometers, not meters.Intricate patterns cover the walls, floors, and ceilings—more intricate than I can describe... the colors arebrowns, yellows, blues, and black.“I see three beings... similar to the ones I saw before.They’re walking inside this huge interior space like tinyants in a huge field. One of them is carrying a device ofsome kind. He’s pointing it at these spheres or... orwhat I believe are holographic representations ofplanets. There’re thousands of these things... spheres I(page 346)mean, but I get the impression that there’re manymore rooms like this one. This building is unbelievablyhuge.”The monitor screen showed a blurry depiction of whatSamantha saw. It looked like the first images oftelevision, except there were color tones, albeit faint.“Okay, good, now I want you to look around in thisbuilding, but do not stay in any POV for longer thanabout ten seconds. I’ll remind you to switch POV.Report.”“The planets are holograms... I can see through themwhen I’m up close. From a distance they appear to besolid representations. I’m looking at one that’scompletely water, no... no there’s a small landmass atits southernmost pole—”“Change POV, Samantha,” Fifteen ordered.“This planet is large, it’s also mostly water... I’mgetting the analytic that it’s a very young planet. It hasno life, but it’s being cultivated to have life. Its weatheris very volatile—”“Samantha, change POV. Cue on the device that thethree beings are using. Report.”Her face showed some strain as she focused herattention on the object. “It appears to be an activation(page 347)device... yes, they use it to activate the database. Asbefore, I get the strong impression that this entirestructure is part of a three-dimensional, holographicdatabase.”“Go to the model representing Earth,” Fifteenordered.“I see it. It’s smaller than most of the other planetsrepresented here. It’s also bluer in color...”“Samantha, I want you to go inside the hologram ofEarth,” he said. “Do you understand my directive?”“Yes,” she replied. “I’m there. It’s an amazingmixture of colors and patterns.”“Can you locate their source?”Samantha’s face remained expressionless as shepaused for a few seconds. “I see a cord of light...something inexplicable... it seems like an umbilicalcord...”“Follow it to its source,” Fifteen said.“I’m inside something—maybe a room... maybe a...computer, I’m not sure. It feels like architecture. I seethousands, no, millions of these cords converging intosomething... it almost looks like a nebula. I don’t knowhow else to describe it.”(page 348)“We can see it, too,” Fifteen reassured her. “Don’tworry about descriptions. Cue on the purpose of thisroom.”“I’m getting the strong analytic that the room is non-physical. It only appears physical. It’s a generator ofsome kind. It’s like the central energy system for thisbuilding where the planets are represented. Perhaps it’a holographic generator, but it seems more like anorganic computer.”“Good, Samantha,” Fifteen said. “Now, cue on thegenerator into which these cords of light converge.Report.”“I’m not getting anything... oh, wait, these cords...they’re like miniature filaments that conductsomething... energy or... or maybe a life-givingsubstance of some kind. I’m not sure—”“Stay in observation mode,” Fifteen directed. “Canyou locate their original source of energy?”“No, everything here seems like a pattern that’s beenreplicated billions of times over. There’s no originalstructure that I can feel. Suddenly, I’m getting theanalytic that this room is the planet. That I’m insidethis planet in which the building is situated.”(page 349)

_________________The single most important thing we can do is to practice the heart’s intelligence in our everyday, moment-to-moment expressions.

I may be stretching it, or it might retro-fit, that Samantha is actually RVing the reality of us being in a simulation but not being able to really process it for what it is because it doesn't fit her belief system. She's like "but that doesn't make sense", or gets conflicting intuitions that the holograms are also the planets and not just a hologram (in a virtual reality scenario a planet is both).

Wow Alex, that is it! I don’t think it is stretching it at all, in-fact I think it makes a lot of sense in light of the new information contained in the 5th Neruda Interview. There has been a question in my thoughts - who created the holograms - was it the Central Race? I wonder this for a few reasons, but one is for the simple fact that the magnetic fields of this Earth are in a sense alive - an aspect of intelligence, which is as I understand it an aspect outside of Anu's ability to control.

Anyhow, I just went and reread all of that section of the AAP and there is something else that really raises my interest as well – the ‘central cell’ that is stored in the pineal gland.

“I’ve never heard of the Central Race—” “It’s not exactly taught in school,” Neruda said, smiling. “They’re not unlike the Central Cell. This is the original cell that comes into existence when the father’s sperm unites with the mother’s egg. From this Central Cell, all of your other eighty trillion cells spring. Your other cells are differentiated; the Central Cell is not. It holds the master blueprint of your physical, emotional, and mental make-up. It lives in the pineal gland.Page: 331 Ancient Arrow Project.

As an aside, this is what I think the Chamber 9 painting communicates – all the happenings of the sperm and the egg uniting and the connection of what appears to be the pineal gland depicted in the centre of the painting.

I realise I'm digressing a bit from what you started here Alex. It is often the case that one thing leads to another and goes back to something I was originally looking at.

So much to review of the WMM in the bigger picture as we now understand it.

I realise I'm digressing a bit from what you started here Alex. It is often the case that one thing leads to another and goes back to something I was originally looking at.

No worries. It's not like I intentionally went out to find about Samantha's RV session. It's just that the information is intertwined, so the AAP book makes additional sense through the interviews. It's like the use of LERM by Evans in saving Neruda with the "whale knife" (and insisting low clearance personnel leave the cave) or manifesting explosives and batteries later on. They seem like anomalous events, but the anomalies makes sense through the interviews.

_________________The single most important thing we can do is to practice the heart’s intelligence in our everyday, moment-to-moment expressions.

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