i am the proud product of the public education system in the US (K-12th), and i think public education can work if we want it to and are willing to put our bucks where our rhetoric is.

that said, i did go to a small liberal arts college way up in the great north woods of new england, and i wouldn't have traded the experience for anything in the world. it was an ideal match for my interests and what was important to me (at the time, close attention from the professors and a strong swim team), and i would like to think (though i obviously can't be sure) that i would have incurred how ever much debt had my parents not been able to pay full tuition.

they were able to, thanks to both our family priority on education and the fact that, yes, my parents have professional class jobs. i will not apologize for that, nor will i feel guilty, since i worked my goddamn little tail off all 4 years. however, i am very, very aware of how insane the price of college is, and i think, especially on the public level (many of which are stellar univesities ... Michigan, Virginia, UCLA and/or Berkeley anyone?) it's a crime that people graduate with as much debt as they do.

i will also say that where i went to graduate school has been enormously influential in my life, mostly because of the people i met there -- and, more importantly for a small school, the alumni connections i have made and maintain.

Originally posted by Irvine511 well ... i'm going to differ from a few of the statements in here.

i am the proud product of the public education system in the US (K-12th), and i think public education can work if we want it to and are willing to put our bucks where our rhetoric is.

that said, i did go to a small liberal arts college way up in the great north woods of new england, and i wouldn't have traded the experience for anything in the world. it was an ideal match for my interests and what was important to me (at the time, close attention from the professors and a strong swim team), and i would like to think (though i obviously can't be sure) that i would have incurred how ever much debt had my parents not been able to pay full tuition.

i agree with you on public education 100%, irvine. i am also a proud product (k-12) and am even more proud to have a father who, although conservative to the bone , devoted 30 years of his life to the system.

that said, i am not so much angered over my admittedly small debt (comparatively) as i am that any chance i have to pursue further education will cost me incredible financial stress. it just shouldn't be this way. i love my undergrad school and i miss it very much. had i developed earlier in life (intellectually, etc) i would've been happy their no matter my major. am i making sense on this one?

Originally posted by financeguy Can we talk about the elephant in the room?

"[US] Military spending relative to other countries

A comparison of the budgets for the world's greatest military spenders. Note that this comparison is done in US dollars and thus is not adjusted for purchasing power parity.

The current (2005) United States military budget is larger than the military budgets of the next twenty biggest spenders combined, and six times larger than China's, which places second.

The United States and its close allies are responsible for approximately two-thirds of all military spending on Earth (of which, in turn, the U.S. is responsible for two-thirds), and spend 57 times more than the seven so-called "rogue" nations combined (Cuba, Iran, Iraq, Libya, North Korea, Sudan and Syria). Military spending accounts for more than half of the United States' federal discretionary spending, which is all of the U.S. government's money not spoken for by pre-existing obligations. [1]

According to the Stockholm International Peace Research Institute, in 2003 the United States spent approximately 47% of the world's total military spending of US$956,000,000,000.

Relative to the total GDP of the United States, however, the total spending on the military was only 3.7% in 2003. This spending rate has been in a slow decline since peaking in 1944 at 37.8% of GDP. Even during the peak of the Vietnam War the percentage reached only a high of 9.4% in 1968. As a percentage of discretionary spending, the US outlays for defense are also at a relatively low level. In 1972, for example, the percentage was 72.9%."

Isn't the last paragraph the most important one in this case? Otherwise I don't see what it has to do with the cost of college tuition...

What really gets to me with the whole college and money thing is that it's all just a vicious cycle. Sure, at times I wish I'd just gone to a cheaper school, but I'd still have to work to pay rent and everything else. In order to work, I need a job, and my current job pays me exceptionally well AND it's experience in my field. Also, I don't have a car, so I am limited to being able to work within walking distance. I could switch to another school within the state to keep it cheap, but then I lose my job and have to start over, assuming I could even FIND a new job (west Michigan is REALLY lagging behind economically and unemployment is really bad here). There's so many factors involved besides simply the school and the cost. It's impossible to foresee all of these factors before you're actually in the situation of being in college. Would I have done this differently if I could? I don't know. I like my school and I like my job. I've never been excited about the big universities that have hundreds of students in a single classroom. I love having professors who are not only at the top of their respective fields, but have a genuine interest in my progress before I'm the one constantly seeking them out.

I don't know, it's all very frustrating for me and is the number one cause of any anxiety and depression episodes I've had. It's hard to talk about because a lot of people feel it and everyone is helpless, so what's the point?

Originally posted by yolland
Sucks doesn't it, before you even have your own debts all paid off you're already worrying about those of your children...

Question for those with kids: are you planning on paying for your child's/children's college ed? Is anyone planning on letting their kids pay their own way?

And for everyone: is it still largely assumed that parents pay for most or all of college education? Do parents also pay for rent, utilities, books, insurance, etc?

This is rather interesting to me, because going into college, I though it was going to be every person for him or herself. I never had a clue that I'd be in such a small minority of people paying for their college with their own money and loans. Growing up, you get all these messages about "children leaving the nest" and kids finally getting some responsibility, and then I got to college and it was high school with way more people and some dorms. I thought things would finally even out, but I ended up with the same problems I had through high school: most of my peers coming from upper-middle to upper class families and not having to think twice about money. It's not that I think they're all rich snobs, you know I'd give anything to not have to worry about this financing shit when I was 17, but most of the girls on my floor got this attitude about me that I was antisocial because I never did any dorm activities with them. What they never realized was that I was working anytime I wasn't in class. It doesn't really matter to me now since I have my group of friends and my fiance, but back then it was kind of sad that I couldn't make any new friends because I didn't have the time or the money to spend every waking minute at sporting events, shopping, coed dorm activities, etc.

I feel quite lucky to have gone to college in the early 80's when it was still possible to get grants and work-study to pay much of the costs (I was eligible for a lot too because we were flat broke at the time).

I did go to private liberal arts colleges, and although neither are what you would call elite, they were decent. It worked for me because I've never been particularly ambitious career-wise, so I took what interested me. What I did to help keep costs down was to go to a small two year college for my first two years and then I transferred to the better four year to finish out my BA (several of the more ambitious students did this as well and did get into "good" schools).

The tuition at the two year college cost less than half that of the four year, and everything I took transferred without a hitch. So I was able to get the BA from the better college, and saved over a year's worth of tuition cost in the process. Even doing that I still had to take out thousands of dollars worth of loans, but I did manage to pay them back in 4-5 years (mostly because I lived at home and caught a ride to work with my dad for most of those years.)

Of course, now I'm playing artiste/boho chick and haven't held a "real" job in nearly ten years, so my BA isn't exactly getting a lot of use these days.

And for everyone: is it still largely assumed that parents pay for most or all of college education? Do parents also pay for rent, utilities, books, insurance, etc?

I was lucky to get $100 a year from my dad for books and such, even though under the terms of my parents divorce he was supposed to pay for certain things (such as books, fees, and some tuition, but he never did. But I'm not bitter. ) until I was 20 or 21. The first couple years I was able to cover the cost of books and fees with grants etc. because the tuition at the two year school was so low, but once I transferred to the four year school I quickly learned how to pass many of my classes without ever having the books for them. I simply couldn't afford it.

I also lived at home throughout college. The two year school was about five miles away and even the four year school was only 18.5 miles away. And I never ate there...always ate at home. Cheaper.