If you take into consideration practicalities and user-friendliness maybe. If you narrow it down to the end result in the cup I very doubt it.

There are a lot of grinders in the 38mm conicals family that can give you excellent shots and nobody, both in this forum and the home-barista, has provided hard and rock-solid (ideally scientific) evidence for the opposite. The only thing that I have manage to find out so far, are only subjective opinions. I read a lot (really a lot) about espresso but I might have missed this critical one so please if someone knows point me at it

To cut the story short, the OP has already a grinder and if he does his part correctly (The Mano) he will enjoy not decent but excellent shots from his Oscar. So no point to steer him towards spending more money at this point. Of course he can always start saving money for his last and uncompromised grinder choice whatever this might be in the future.

I disagree if you are honestly trying to say that the Le'Lit matches the Vario in the cup, but like you said, it's subjective.

The Vario is regularly compared to grinders triple it's price. The Le'Lit? not so much and is mostly recommended so people avoid the misery of the rocky and the gaggia mdf in that price range. I personally prefer the Flat burrs over the conical. The latter usually provides too much of a fruity tone in my opinion. Not to mention the other factor important to me, grind retention.

Coffee is 100% subjective because you match to your taste. It's silly to require scientific evidence. The only evidence you get is this many more people prefer this one over that one.

The OP will ultimately decide based on what her or she needs. They asked a question and I answered it, whats the problem here?

Your opinion. Avoid to read the titan project or the grind size distributions of your grinder. If you do not link the taste observations to a certain and completely identifiable property of the grind you should then avoid using expressions of the kind: " x grinder is head and shoulder above the y grinder".

No problem at all, why should I have a problem with your answer? Do you have a problem with mine?

Finally, may I ask you what grinder you had before the Vario?

PS If you see older posts of mine you will see that the small grind retention of the Vario is why I like this grinder and that is why when I made my comment above I took out of the comparison the practicality and user-friendliness issues.

In no manner am I stating that the Vario is up there with the 'titans.' I would appreciate the chance to use them but I couldn't get into a cheaper hand grinder version.

However, the comparison is the le'lit and the Vario. Thats all.

Ill make sure to buy some beakers and test tubes so that I can write up some scientific reports next time I express my opinion. All I know is that for espresso the Vario is phenominal in all your scientific analysis categories, even if I didn't perform them myself. The evidence is in the cup.

As for the comparison with the more expensive models. I can recall a few i've read so a quick google search should help you find them.

I've had extensive use with the Gaggia MDF/smart grinder/etc back before I got out of cheap skate mode, like everyone else has. The Le'lit was one that i've had the pleasure to use (albeit after I already bought the MDF, or else i would have started there) and it's great for the budget models, especially when it was on sale for $200. However, I just had to clarify for the OP that he isn't getting a Vario or higher level grind with it after you made the comment.

If you take into consideration practicalities and user-friendliness maybe. If you narrow it down to the end result in the cup I very doubt it.

There are a lot of grinders in the 38mm conicals family that can give you excellent shots and nobody, both in this forum and the home-barista, has provided hard and rock-solid (ideally scientific) evidence for the opposite. The only thing that I have manage to find out so far, are only subjective opinions. I read a lot (really a lot) about espresso but I might have missed this critical one so please if someone knows point me at it

To cut the story short, the OP has already a grinder and if he does his part correctly (The Mano) he will enjoy not decent but excellent shots from his Oscar. So no point to steer him towards spending more money at this point. Of course he can always start saving money for his last and uncompromised grinder choice whatever this might be in the future.

Actually (and I believe you know this Christos) the Vario is not a conical, but a flat ceramic burr grinder. I think you meant Preciso,. when describing the 38mm conical?That said, I believe you both had made points. I LOVE my Vario, but our OP will do just fine. Practice with both the grinder and machine, and maybe THEN a grinder upgrade. The Vario will be quieter, neater, and the timer (or W grind by weight) grinder will prove to be better overall, but the Lelit should prove worthy for the time being. My .02.

Actually Rob I made no comparison at all (see my laconic first reply) and that exactly was the point that I am trying to make. We should be extra cautious when we do comparisons and bold statements as brianl did above and in other threads.

The OP asked this:

pcof Said:

...or do i badly need to upgrade to get a decent shot out of the oscar?

and my opinion is a clear NO (for the time being). I am having a Vario but to be honest an invisible hand somehow types K30 Vario every day at my keyboard. The enemy of the good is the better.

My mention to 38mm conicals had to do only with the Lelit 53 and I simply generalize it so to include other brands as well with the same burrs and a proven record as espresso grinders. I have a great deal of respect for those economical grinders because they have helped a lot of people to appreciate the significance of the freshly ground coffee (at least here in Greece where I am daily battling for convincing people to stop buying preground super market coffees.)

Symbols: = New Posts since your last visit = No New Posts since last visit = Newest post

Forum Rules:No profanity, illegal acts or personal attacks will be tolerated in these discussion boards.No commercial posting of any nature will be tolerated; only private sales by private individuals, in the "Buy and Sell" forum.No SEO style postings will be tolerated. SEO related posts will result in immediate ban from CoffeeGeek.No cross posting allowed - do not post your topic to more than one forum, nor repost a topic to the same forum.Who Can Read The Forum? Anyone can read posts in these discussion boards.Who Can Post New Topics? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post new topics.Who Can Post Replies? Any registered CoffeeGeek member can post replies.Can Photos be posted? Anyone can post photos in their new topics or replies.Who can change or delete posts? Any CoffeeGeek member can edit their own posts. Only moderators can delete posts.Probationary Period: If you are a new signup for CoffeeGeek, you cannot promote, endorse, criticise or otherwise post an unsolicited endorsement for any company, product or service in your first five postings.