Clinton delegates remain unconvinced

by
Jeff Mapes, The Oregonian

Monday August 25, 2008, 10:32 PM

Rob Finch / The OregonianHarry Demarest Jr., an Oregon delegate to the Democratic National Convention, shows his support for Hillary Clinton but says her supporters need to back Obama. Clinton also is urging her supporters to move to Obama and unite the party, but some remain unhappy.

DENVER -- Portlander Sue Castner walked into the Oregon delegation breakfast Monday sporting a T-shirt that screamed "Hillary Clinton" and an attitude about the soon-to-be Democratic nominee, Barack Obama, that could charitably be described as unenthusiastic.

"He's got a lot to prove to me," said Castner, neatly sidestepping the question of whether she will actually vote for Obama in November.

In fact, she added, "if I had to base my vote on how his supporters have treated us, I'd be voting for McCain."

As the Democratic convention opened Monday, delegates such as Castner were exhibits in an argument involving activists from both parties. The subject: Have the Democrats irrevocably lost a big chunk of Clinton's supporters?

Such talk has been fueled not only by thousands of journalists -- who sense the best drama of the convention -- but also by polls showing that as many as half of Clinton's primary voters are unsure whether they will vote for Obama in the fall election.

These questions will likely reach a crescendo tonight when Clinton gives a prime-time speech to the convention. Democratic leaders say they are confident she will deliver a strong pro-Obama pitch, but Castner said that misses the point.

"It's not Hillary's job to unite the party," she said. "It's his." In other words, she plans to wait and see whether Obama can win over her and other staunch Clinton backers who she feels have often been disrespected by the Obama forces.

The big focus on the Drama of Hillaryland has frustrated Democratic leaders who would like to spend the week extolling Obama's virtues. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi scolded reporters for "wallowing in all of this" as the convention kicked off.

Not surprisingly, the McCain campaign sees an opportunity to fuel the discontent. They launched a new ad featuring a Clinton supporter, Debra Bartoshevich, who was booted from the Wisconsin delegation to the Democratic convention when she announced she was voting for John McCain.

"I'm a proud Hillary Clinton Democrat," Bartoshevich says in the ad. "She had the experience and judgment to be president. Now, in a first for me, I'm supporting a Republican, John McCain."

Bartoshevich also appeared at a Denver press conference for the McCain campaign with, among others, Carly Fiorina, once one of the highest-ranking women executives in America before she was ousted from the chief executive position at Hewlett-Packard.

"John McCain honors the contributions Hillary Clinton has made to advancing the position of women in society," said Fiorina, now one of McCain's most prominent stand-ins. She dug the knife in further by adding that McCain and Clinton have genuine respect for each other.

Clinton herself made it clear she is supporting Obama, and she denounced another McCain ad that repeats her attacks on Obama during the primary. "I'm Hillary Clinton, and I do not approve that message," she told her home-state delegates from New York.

The Obama and Clinton camps worked out a deal about how to handle the traditional roll call, the Associated Press reported. After delegates from several states are allowed to cast their votes on Wednesday for either candidate, Clinton will vote for Obama herself when the roll call gets to New York, then call for the nomination to be made unanimous.

But beyond the niceties of how to handle the convention is the larger question of whether Democrats are losing a significant part of their base because of the disgruntlement of many Clinton supporters. The disgruntled were certainly easy to find in Denver.

In a riverside park near the convention center, several women set up Clinton signs for what they said will be two days of rallies and events celebrating their candidate.

"It's just a neutral territory for those who want to support Hillary's accomplishments," said Sharon Cassidy, a nurse from San Francisco. She said she hasn't decided how to vote in November.

But Leslie George of Denver, a retired high school librarian, and Sandra Terreberry, a Las Vegas retiree, said they are now backing McCain. Terreberry showed off a "Puma PAC" button. That group, People United Means Action Political Action Committee, has been loudly complaining that Clinton has not received fair treatment by the Democratic leadership.

Harry Demarest Jr., a Corvallis businessman who is also a Clinton delegate, said most of Clinton's supporters in the Oregon delegation have come around to backing Obama. He said it's tougher for Castner because she had such a prominent role in the Clinton campaign as a member of her national finance team and as one of her main supporters in Oregon.

But he also said that Democratic Chairman Howard Dean could have made it easier to unify the party by not spending weeks trying to prevent Clinton's name from coming into nomination.

"He fell down on the job," said Demarest, who plans to keep wearing Clinton regalia until it's time to unify behind Obama toward the end of the convention.

Former Oregon Gov. Barbara Roberts, who remembers the much more bitter split between supporters of then-President Jimmy Carter and Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts at the 1980 convention, said she thinks it will be easier for the party to unify this time.

Clinton delegates "just want to have their place in the sun at the convention," said Roberts, predicting that when Clinton speaks tonight, "she will make sure her delegates do the right thing for the party and for the nominee."

The Hillary folks, especially those from Oregon need to GET OVER IT! If you want to be responcible for electing Sen. John McSame and having us all live through four more years of stupid Republican policies then keep up your whining! The rules were clear far before the first primary, they were the same for all, Hillary lost dispite the disgusting work of her lieing husband (remember the finger he pointed at all of us when he told the big lie about sex). Grow up, get on board or just join your friend Rush at the Republican convention. Shame on our state's highest official for running off to pout because his precious Hillary did not get her way! When Grandpa loses it with the war button you will regret your childish ways!

Screw them. If they are in support of a man who left his first wife (after she was permanently disfigured) for a man who married a pretty, rich, trophy wife, and a man who is against pro-female legislation, they deserve ALL the bad things that can come to them.

I'm in support of equality. I'm sorry, Hillary Clinton was a case of a middle-aged woman getting the undying support of the middle-aged white (racist) feminist movement and the support of people whose political knowledge doesn't extend beyond knowing the last name of recent former Presidents (same kind of people that voted Bush in 2000 and 2004). She's unqualified, and had HER HUSBAND build her political career.
Real feminists would vomit before voting for a woman who rode the coattails of men in order to gain a political career. Too bad the idiotic posturing of Clinton supporters is easy to spot, and not worth our time: they'll vote for Obama (or a third-party candidate) if they have any intelligence or foresight.

It's time for the Hillsters to put on their big girl panties and wake up to the fact that to not support Obama in favor of McCain would be a huge slap in the face to everything the Clinton's represent or purport to represent. If they actually move to the McCain camp in Hillary's name, and he wins they will destroy any chance Hillary or any Clinton might have in a future White House bid. They might as well vote for Nader the last so called liberal who sold out the country for his own personal ambition when he delivered the Presidency to Bush in 2000 with his Florida fiasco.

The first three posters all must be left-wing loons. Why? Because they personally attack Hillary supporters. People say get over it. Well, apparently, a fair amount of people are getting over it by voting for McCain. I am sorry you are angry because you cannot control other people. As long as you nut jobs continue to act like this in Oregon and at the convention, you shouldn't be surprised by the mass defections. Now, you'll just have to "get over that," won't you?

The truth is that both Obama and McCain would be huge improvements over the current leadership in the White House. The real difference is in the kind of people they will bring into their cabinets, and the kind of judges they will place on the Supreme Court. Obama has consistently shown outstanding leadership and judgment in attracting the very best people to work for him. McCain on the other hand attracts a lot of the same self-serving opportunists that we have in the halls of power already.

It's hard to believe it, but there are people less gracious than Hillary and Bill: their supporters. If Hillary wanted a chance to be on the ticket, she should have taken the high road a lot earlier when the tea leaves were spelling 'O.' I am not some 'left-wing nut job,' however and agree with ORNative that either O or M would be better than W, but McCain has a tendency to choose military solutions despite their ineffectiveness, and then again there is the right to choose issue. I'm probably a right winger compared to most people in Oregon, but I can't stomach the Republican's God, Guns, and beggar-thy-neighbor flag waving hype.

Wow the myopia of some Hillary supporters is astonishing to me. They care more about perceived slights by an opponent's supporters in a primary than a woman's right to choose, getting our troops out of Iraq and ending the dependence on foreign oil?

If McCain wins because of some of these voters I hope they can look their children in the eye and tell them they chose to vote over sour grapes rather than being adults and caring about their future.

I guess only "left wing whackos" throw out insults and insinuations? This whole thing is rediculous. Hillary lost there is no other way to slice it. The votes in Michigan and Florida didn't count and the argument over whether they should or not was had previous to the primaries.

I'm just surprised at the vitriol. Do Hillary supporters think that we'll forget when the next time roles around? Can you imagine the backlash if you all cost us the election? Hillary will be toast politically.

Is this what America is about? Reagan/Bush-Reagan/Bush-Bush/Quayle-Clinton/Gore-Clinton/Gore-Bush/Chaney-Bush/Chaney and now you want a Clinton again? For the last 28 years there has been a Bush or a Clinton in the White House. Why did we cast out the royal family?

I do get frustrated with the infighting. Clinton supporters should now listen to what she has to say. She may have sore personal feelings but politically she supports Obama wholeheartedly. Lets not let emotions overwhelm what's best for our country's people.

The Hillary voters have legitimate points. Obama is far from the maistream and has no chance of winning. This ticket is so liberal is makes the McGovern ticket look conservative. I am a conservative who is not completely happy with McCain but am voting for him anyway. Obama has no experience and has no competence to be President. I would have been much more comfortable with a Clinton in the White House becuase at least we would have been safe in national security issues. Obama as president would be an unmitigated disaster.

'In fact, she added, "if I had to base my vote on how his supporters have treated us, I'd be voting for McCain."'

As if that's a rational way to pick a president -- not their policies, but who else supports them.

One common definition of insanity is: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Another could be: knowingly and intentionally voting against one's self-interest. By voting for McCain, both apply to PUMAs.

Welcome back Libs. It's been a while. I was out of town so I must of missed the apology you gave out to the group over your rumour about the Hillary lawsuit over the birth certificate thing. Sorry to see you get busted for telling fibs in such a public way but hey, that's life in the fast lane. sip on dude..

No longer can anyone blame the mess that the democrats are in on Hillary Clinton. Registered democrats, should be pointing such blame directly at the back room boys and especially those super delegates, who prematurely voted for the incredibly bad judgment and inexperience of the Junior Senator Barack Hussein Obama. Hillary Clinton, should have been the democratic Presidential candidate or at least the VP candidate for the democrat party. Keep smiling...

No longer can anyone blame the mess that the democrats are in on Hillary Clinton. Registered democrats, should be pointing such blame directly at the back room boys and especially those super delegates, who prematurely voted for the incredibly bad judgment and inexperience of the Junior Senator Barack Hussein Obama. Hillary Clinton, should have been the democratic Presidential candidate or at least the VP candidate for the democrat party. Keep smiling...

Sue Castner has been a trouble maker in politics for a really long time. She only pops up when it suits her. She is really not a true Democrat. Not suprised she would do this! And Sue, if you dont support Obama...you are and never really have been a Democrat.

Hillary lost because she ran a poor campaign, and Bill really cost her votes w. his sloppy and angry rhetoric.

Obama is going to make a fine President...and he will do the Democratic Party proud.

Get over it Sue...come to think of it...why dont you switch parties. WE DONT NEED YOU.

I hate to raise the ugly word, but I don't see how it can be avoided. I heard delegates to the convention interviewed after Hillary's speech. they were, "life-long" Democrats and supported all of the issues which clearly contrasted Obama and McCain. Nevertheless they said they refused to vote for Obama. They used words like Obama stole the vote from Hillary and used dirty tactics. However, I don't see how one can avoid that word

No one but Hiliary alone did this to the democratic party. She attacked Obama again and again trying to get the nomination, and now that she has lost wonders why her followers are so confused. Her own words during her democratic campaign are coming back to haunt her, and she beins crying "foul". "I don't approve that message". Well she sure as heck approved it when she was trying to use it in her favor. At least McCain has stood by his same message, and isn't trying to use damage control because it no longer suits his purpose. He may not be the perfect candidate, but at least he's remained consistent and honest.

Why wasn't Hillary the VP. I thought Obama was all about reaching across the isle and he can't even reach across his own isle to unite the party. I am torn between throwing away my vote on a 3rd party or just not voting at all.

Momor3fs needs to do some research. Castner has done more for the Dem Party of Oregon than you most certainly have. But since you're too cowardly to sign a name, we will never know. Typical disciple of Coward Dean! Just ask a senator, governor, or officer of the DPO if you'd like to know what she's done.

And it's mouths like you who need to switch parties. We'll keep Castner. The mentality that someone voicing dissent needs to be silenced is SO Republican, you'll be welcome there. True Democrat, my a**!