He's a good guy who made a mistake, GUESS WHAT, People make mistakes, you see it all the time, doesn't mean they should suffer for it. And Thrall is right now back in 5.3 and putting himself on the line to try and deal with this problem.

If Thrall makes a mistake and it has no negative repercussions for him that seems pretty Mary Sue-ish.

If you are particularly bold, you could use a Shiny Ditto. Do keep in mind though, this will infuriate your opponents due to Ditto's beauty. Please do not use Shiny Ditto. You have been warned.

If Thrall makes a mistake and it has no negative repercussions for him that seems pretty Mary Sue-ish.

But it is having negative repercussions.

As of patch 5.3, he' stuck killing Kor'kron in Sen'jin during the first part of the Darkspear Rebellion to take over Razor Hill. There's a negative repercussion right there, having no choice but to kill his own people, the people he used to be leading. By the end of that segment, he's off to find others who don't agree with Garrosh's views. If that doesn't end badly (aka: him getting caught in Orgrimmar by Garrosh or his loyalists), then I will be sorely disappointed. Blizz is practically setting this situation up. Frankly, I think being captured by said person you put in charge then potentially (come on raid boss!) turned against your own friends and family is a pretty negative repercussion. It just has to happen, of course lol.

yeah well its hard to tell these days when people are serious about it or not, and frankly I'm getting pissed off with some of the things the wow community spews out.
'Garrosh is such a good leader, blizzard just made him evil, thats not him'
'Its all Thralls fault, he's such a mary sue, he made the mistake of giving Garrosh power (he's a mary sue but makes mistakes, see why its bullshit what people say)'
'Anduin is such a mary sue now, he should die'.

This games become f***ing toxic because of the community these days.

Hold on a second, people actually argue if anduin is mary sue ?
He is:
- Child protagonist.
- Choosen one, with prophercy that says he will unite all races and lead them against legion, as super savior of azeroth (suck on that thrall !!!)
- Smarter than you attidute
- "I learn my lesson and teach others" kind of BS
- He's able to impress the most ancient beings (xuen for example)
- Plot armor that makes unkillable, hell he's even immune to any permanent damage + insane healing skills.
- His face simply scream "Asshole" + Voice of pre pubescent optimus prime
- He makes friends with simply everyone (baine, wrathion, billy mays, jaina)
- Oh he is also a prince and possibly best leader humans will ever have.
- Despite young age skilled with holy magic and apparently capable to outsmart/ mind controll experienced agents.
- He is much wiser than anyone could ever hope to in his age
So assuming i didn't forget anything it's pretty obvious that this guy is mary sue'preme ( advanced form of mary sue), and is capable of butchering any attempt for interesting writing.

Hold on a second, people actually argue if anduin is mary sue ?
He is:
- Child protagonist.
- Choosen one, with prophercy that says he will unite all races and lead them against legion, as super savior of azeroth (suck on that thrall !!!)
- Smarter than you attidute
- "I learn my lesson and teach others" kind of BS
- He's able to impress the most ancient beings (xuen for example)
- Plot armor that makes unkillable, hell he's even immune to any permanent damage + insane healing skills.
- His face simply scream "Asshole" + Voice of pre pubescent optimus prime
- He makes friends with simply everyone (baine, wrathion, billy mays, jaina)
- Oh he is also a prince and possibly best leader humans will ever have.
- Despite young age skilled with holy magic and apparently capable to outsmart/ mind controll experienced agents.
- He is much wiser than anyone could ever hope to in his age
So assuming i didn't forget anything it's pretty obvious that this guy is mary sue'preme ( advanced form of mary sue), and is capable of butchering any attempt for interesting writing.

It doesn't help that his model is a horribly altered version of the human male lol. Either that or they really wanted to make him look as bad as Varian, and both my twin and myself agree that it looks like the took a frying pan and smashed him in the face a few times with it. Kinda looks like the did it to Vol'jin too lol.
Having Andy to die to Garrosh at end of Shieldwall/Dominance Offensive would have given the Alliance a WAY BETTER reason to go after Garrosh in 5.4. Instead.... we get to sneak around as a mechanical cat....

I don't see why the criticisms on what a Mary-Sue is need apply only to fan fiction when the faults themselves exists plainly in all sorts of fiction. Perhaps that is where the term originated, but it's applicability is far from limited there.

Thrall is a shameless Mary-Sue. I'm fairly sure (just a baseless hunch) that Either Thrall or Durotan was Metzen's PC in a D&D game.

I'd remove those two. "Plot armor" is a whiney excuse that the story didn't happen the way the complainer says it should. Anything imaginable that prevents Anduin from dying, from interference in the scene, to surviving on his own, to surviving with magic (the same as every character in WoW on a daily basis), to simply not having him go to the location the scene took place can all be argued as plot armor. "Oh, they just wrote him to not go there so he wouldn't be killed. Plot armor." It's difficult to argue plot armor with an unbiased approach, so I generally wouldn't bother with it.

His face has nothing to do with being Mary Sue. That's entirely your opinion.
(Anduin, you suck as a character....it's just...something about your face. "I'll work on it..." You can't!....It's your face!") Hehhehe

Pre pubescent Optimus Prime. WTF are you even talking about? Where do you get Optimus anywhere remotely from Anduin's voice? Second, he doesn't sound pre-pubescent, he sounds like a young adult in his teens.....which he is. And finally.....his voice is again your opinion.

All the other points pretty much support your argument fully without these two points. Safe to remove 'em.

Last edited by Faroth; 2013-05-06 at 03:12 PM.

"There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

I'd remove those two. "Plot armor" is a whiney excuse that the story didn't happen the way the complainer says it should. Anything imaginable that prevents Anduin from dying, from interference in the scene, to surviving on his own, to surviving with magic (the same as every character in WoW on a daily basis), to simply not having him go to the location the scene took place can all be argued as plot armor. "Oh, they just wrote him to not go there so he wouldn't be killed. Plot armor." It's difficult to argue plot armor with an unbiased approach, so I generally wouldn't bother with it.

His face has nothing to do with being Mary Sue. That's entirely your opinion.

Pre pubescent Optimus Prime. WTF are you even talking about? Where do you get Optimus anywhere remotely from Anduin's voice? Second, he doesn't sound pre-pubescent, he sounds like a young adult in his teens.....which he is. And finally.....his voice is again your opinion.

All the other points pretty much support your argument fully without these two points. Safe to remove 'em.

Ok i will give you the voice argument you got me.
But !!!
His face has this protectional expression of "patient and wise" and it really adds to his attidute of untorelable asshat.
Also surviving being crushed on and buried alive with barely "slighty hurt leg" (you want me to kiss it so its heal faster) was real letdown, they could at least put him on drek's wheelchair. (so i can push him down stairs BUHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

And for a good measure trauma could cause him tourette syndrome, so he would swear like drunken sailor. That would make him slighty more tolerable.

Ok i will give you the voice argument you got me.
But !!!
His face has this protectional expression of "patient and wise" and it really adds to his attidute of untorelable asshat.
Also surviving being crushed on and buried alive with barely "slighty hurt leg" (you want me to kiss it so its heal faster) was real letdown, they could at least put him on drek's wheelchair. (so i can push him down stairs BUHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA)

And for a good measure trauma could cause him tourette syndrome, so he would swear like drunken sailor. That would make him slighty more tolerable.

Or, y'know, they could have shown Velen slapping some major healing spells on him since Varian specifically said to bring Velen....who has been mentoring Anduin for all of Cataclsym so you figure he'd show up to help. But that would have required them to do some Alliance stuff in game.

....sometimes I say crazy things.

"There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."

Or, y'know, they could have shown Velen slapping some major healing spells on him since Varian specifically said to bring Velen....who has been MENTORING Anduin for all of Cataclsym. But that would have required them to do some Alliance stuff in game.

Considering all the crazy magic healing we have at our disposal, the fact that he's still getting around with crutches instead of being fully restored I'd say is perfectly fine. How many other instances of divine healing in wow lore don't just leave the person instantly healed up and able to do anything they normally could?

As for the prophecy, not everything Velen sees comes to pass. If you want to call him a mary sue because of the prophecy fine, but let's wait and see how that story actually plays out first.

And his in game model has nothing to do with whether he's a mary sue or not. Human models are pretty terrible to begin with, especially male. And I agree with Faroth on the plot armor thing. Surviving a grievous injury is not plot armor. I can easily see Garrosh, in his arrogance, thinking the human 'whelp' was dead. And I can see Anduin barely clinging to life, getting urgent care, and surviving. It's not like he took a hit from Frostmourne and but his holy prayers kept his soul from being stolen, or he had a mountain collapse on him.

Considering all the crazy magic healing we have at our disposal, the fact that he's still getting around with crutches instead of being fully restored I'd say is perfectly fine. How many other instances of divine healing in wow lore don't just leave the person instantly healed up and able to do anything they normally could?

As for the prophecy, not everything Velen sees comes to pass. If you want to call him a mary sue because of the prophecy fine, but let's wait and see how that story actually plays out first.

And his in game model has nothing to do with whether he's a mary sue or not. Human models are pretty terrible to begin with, especially male. And I agree with Faroth on the plot armor thing. Surviving a grievous injury is not plot armor. I can easily see Garrosh, in his arrogance, thinking the human 'whelp' was dead. And I can see Anduin barely clinging to life, getting urgent care, and surviving. It's not like he took a hit from Frostmourne and but his holy prayers kept his soul from being stolen, or he had a mountain collapse on him.

Im not gonna lie, it would be hilarous if prophercy failed and anduin got mangled/vaporized/eviscirated/killed/raped/decapitated/taken hostage/add what you like, so we could gather around his corpse and sing:http://youtu.be/X7rAnaKId3E?t=59s
(bard's tale for the win).
And i guess you are right, garrosh should had made sure anduin is dead (preferably isaac clarke style). That being said i this guy is alliance main su... focus character and he will lead them to glory (and lameness but that's not a big change)

Anduin's a diplomat. I'd rather his "leading" the army of the light prove to be fulfilled only by appointing Turalyon as head of forces against the Legion, even with a human at the forefront of the Alliance again.

If we're going to have a human leading the army against the Legion, I'd vote for Turalyon over Anduin, and over Varian (and I actually do like Varian) and drawing on experience and ferocity from the night elves since they've fought the Legion before as well.

Last edited by Faroth; 2013-05-06 at 04:07 PM.

"There is good and evil in this world; we must find the black and white in the gray."