So let me ask you smart fellers this: Are you paying attention to what's going on, particularly around Israel? Since time is the one condition that agree will authenticate the message of Christianity, are you paying attention to what Biblical Prophecy has stated, (Ezekiel 38 being one area), so that when the time arrives, and things happen, you'll be aware of the time. OR are you going to call that circumstantial evidence as well?

I'm not picking fun at your stance by any means, I just wonder if you are paying attention to what's going on.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

So let me ask you smart fellers this: Are you paying attention to what's going on, particularly around Israel? Since time is the one condition that agree will authenticate the message of Christianity, are you paying attention to what Biblical Prophecy has stated, (Ezekiel 38 being one area), so that when the time arrives, and things happen, you'll be aware of the time. OR are you going to call that circumstantial evidence as well?

I'm not picking fun at your stance by any means, I just wonder if you are paying attention to what's going on.

So let me ask you smart fellers this: Are you paying attention to what's going on, particularly around Israel? Since time is the one condition that agree will authenticate the message of Christianity, are you paying attention to what Biblical Prophecy has stated, (Ezekiel 38 being one area), so that when the time arrives, and things happen, you'll be aware of the time. OR are you going to call that circumstantial evidence as well?

I'm not picking fun at your stance by any means, I just wonder if you are paying attention to what's going on.

Yes, I am paying attention to what's happening, loosely anyway. To me nothing really has changed. If anything, things are closer to being toned down now than they have been in the past few years. Iran is in talks with the US and other nations about temporarily freezing their nuclear programs (no agreement yet, but reportedly getting closer). Meanwhile, the usual anti-Israel/Zionist statements are coming from the Ayatollah, and Israel has responded with it's usual comments about not accepting racist, anti-Semitic remarks. The only part of this that is anything new is Iran actually talking about stepping back from nukes. That's a good thing.

As for the previous statements you've made about a treaty between Russia and Iran, it does exist. It's the Russo-Persian Friendship Treaty of 1921 between Soviet Russia and Persia. But I would argue that it isn't nearly what you two have made it out to be. You've stated that Russia is "bound by treaty to defend Iran" and that they have no choice. If that were true, then how did the Soviets engage in a war against Iran in 1941 (Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran)? Or the Iran Crisis of 1946 and the Dhofar Rebellion in which the Soviets armed and supported the Iranians enemies? Or the Iran-Iraq war when again, the Soviets opposed Iran and sent weapons to Iraq? Or how about the fact that the treat does not state that Russia is bound to defend Iran. It only states that the two countries (Persia/Iran & Soviet Russia) will not allow any foreign armies to set up a presence in either country from which they could/would attack the other. The Soviets even clarified this in 1931, when a diplomatic representative of the Soviet Government wrote the following to the Shah of Persia:

"In reply to your letter dated 20th day of Ghows, I have the honour to inform you that Articles 5 and 6 are intended to apply only to cases in which preparations have been made for a considerable armed attack upon Russia or the Soviet Republics allied to her..."[/i]

In other words, only if a country sets up show in Iran and is planning to attack Russia would Russia step in with military action.

The bottom line is this: yes, a treaty does exist, and if you read it in a certain way, you can interpret it to say that Israel attacking Iran could be Israel getting ready to attack Russia. But history doesn't support that. You could also read it to mean that Russia must defend Iran if they are attacked, but again, history tells a different story. Russia's own words also explicitly say otherwise. Personally, I'll side with history as a guide instead of taking an interpretation intended to fulfill a prophesy and validate a belief system. But that's just me...

_________________"Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence." - John Adams

“The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it.” - Neil deGrasse Tyson

November 22nd, 2013, 4:42 am

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Thanks for responding TDJ,

I was unaware of the 1921 Treaty, and understood there to be a much more recent Russo-Iranian treaty that had been hashed out between the too, especially in regards to Russian providing Nuclear technology, scientists, and things to Iran. However, I COULD BE MISTAKEN.

Honestly, I hope people are paying attention. One of the key prophecies of the "end times" was that Israel would become a nation again. In 1948 that became a reality, and although there has been room for interpretation in the "generation that see's Israel become a nation again shall not pass away", I am hopeful that has the final prophecies work themselves out, people such as yourself will see the realization of what has happened. If the "Bear" comes out of the North and wages war against Israel, and the whole Gog and Magog topic that Steesn was discussing for a while, happen, it would be nice to see if the Bible is given the credit it's due.

But I'm sure there will be some staunch disbelievers, and sadly their fate will be on their own heads. As for me, I'm just trying to introduce people to a man who's changed my life, and I hope that our "chat conversations" show a progression of faith, and willingness to adapt and engage with love, and not so much stubbornness...

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

November 22nd, 2013, 1:26 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 9596Location: Dallas

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Honestly, I hope people are paying attention. One of the key prophecies of the "end times" was that Israel would become a nation again. In 1948 that became a reality, and although there has been room for interpretation in the "generation that see's Israel become a nation again shall not pass away", I am hopeful that has the final prophecies work themselves out, people such as yourself will see the realization of what has happened.

Some quick math, 2013 - 1948 = 65 years has passed = an entire generation or two = just sayin (obviously, young folks from that time are still around)...

Again, looking to history every generation since the death of Jesus has point to signs seeing the "end of times", but how is this possible? Because they were all looking for something to occur in their lifetimes, yet it never happens. History continues to repeat itself over and over, yet every new generation is convinced that the time is now and/or near.

Time has proven every past generation wrong, the current generation, like all those before it, is looking so hard to see the prophecies being realized they can't face the stark reality. It isn't like we are staunch disbelievers, we are just able to process the facts. "Stubbornness", to use your word, is failing to see the patterns that have existed for the past 2,000+ years and continuing to propagate imagined patterns that back an imagined prophecized future that will never occur (I'd call it something different personally).

Now if you can eliminate your "room for interpretation" we are onto something that time can actually flush out. If you are 1) a true believer, and 2) also see 1948 as a true historical marker, we can simply wait until every single member of that generation passes away. That time is not far away, so I ask you men of "faith" - are you willing to put it to the ultimate test? Will you finally declare that you were wrong when that entire generation has passed, or will you change your "interpretation" like every generation before you has?

Billy, WE4C, and other believers - you willing to be bold in your faith and wrap a date/time around this thing? I'm willing to be as bold in my non-faith as you are in your faith - you name the terms. Or will you continue to hide behind "interpretation" and change that as every generation before you done with an absolute "truth" that continues to be a moving target continuously pushed out into the future?

Honestly, I hope people are paying attention. One of the key prophecies of the "end times" was that Israel would become a nation again. In 1948 that became a reality, and although there has been room for interpretation in the "generation that see's Israel become a nation again shall not pass away", I am hopeful that has the final prophecies work themselves out, people such as yourself will see the realization of what has happened.

Some quick math, 2013 - 1948 = 65 years has passed = an entire generation or two = just sayin (obviously, young folks from that time are still around)...

Again, looking to history every generation since the death of Jesus has point to signs seeing the "end of times", but how is this possible? Because they were all looking for something to occur in their lifetimes, yet it never happens. History continues to repeat itself over and over, yet every new generation is convinced that the time is now and/or near.

Time has proven every past generation wrong, the current generation, like all those before it, is looking so hard to see the prophecies being realized they can't face the stark reality. It isn't like we are staunch disbelievers, we are just able to process the facts. "Stubbornness", to use your word, is failing to see the patterns that have existed for the past 2,000+ years and continuing to propagate imagined patterns that back an imagined prophecized future that will never occur (I'd call it something different personally).

Now if you can eliminate your "room for interpretation" we are onto something that time can actually flush out. If you are 1) a true believer, and 2) also see 1948 as a true historical marker, we can simply wait until every single member of that generation passes away. That time is not far away, so I ask you men of "faith" - are you willing to put it to the ultimate test? Will you finally declare that you were wrong when that entire generation has passed, or will you change your "interpretation" like every generation before you has?

Billy, WE4C, and other believers - you willing to be bold in your faith and wrap a date/time around this thing? I'm willing to be as bold in my non-faith as you are in your faith - you name the terms. Or will you continue to hide behind "interpretation" and change that as every generation before you done with an absolute "truth" that continues to be a moving target continuously pushed out into the future?

Well, if you think the WW2 generation was the generation the bible was talking about. But, it is possible that it is the Baby boomers that the bible was referring to. The 1st of the boomers were being born at the time Israel was reborn. And only GOD the Father knows the time table of his plan. I would not presume to know the mind of GOD.

November 22nd, 2013, 3:44 pm

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2862

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

It's called historicism. Believers are so sure of the end goal, but there are so many twists and turns along the way, that the theory could never be proven wrong.

It's called historicism. Believers are so sure of the end goal, but there are so many twists and turns along the way, that the theory could never be proven wrong.

So glad religion is slowly dying out.

Mock all you want. When you find yourself standing naked before your creator GOD, will you still mock?

November 22nd, 2013, 5:32 pm

njroar

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 25th, 2007, 3:20 amPosts: 2841

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Blueskies wrote:

It's called historicism. Believers are so sure of the end goal, but there are so many twists and turns along the way, that the theory could never be proven wrong.

So glad religion is slowly dying out.

I love how people say it's dying out, when in fact it's growing at rates unseen before around the world. Paying attention to those lone statistics that show X% left a faith, without seeing the corresponding % of those that joined another religion is where it's skewed. People are making a big deal that Catholics have dropped below 70% in Brazil, then fail to see the 16% to 25% increase in protestants.

Religion is shifting, but it's not dying. Around the world it's growing exponentially. Just because the media here likes to portray it as dying out, they're just trying to project their fantasy on everyone else.

November 22nd, 2013, 5:51 pm

Blueskies

Player of the Year - Offense

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 2862

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

November 22nd, 2013, 6:50 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Funny how you used Thor, Blue, because I just heard an interesting story about the Saint Bartholomew (I think his name was) who brought Christianity to the Barbaric Germanic tribes. They used a sacred tree supposedly given to them by Thor, and would sacrifice to him there. This Saint, went and chopped the tree down, and the Barbarians were amazed that Thor did nothing to avenge the slight. This Saint, then brought in the Evergreen tree for two reasons, 1. It's triangular shape pointed to Heaven, and 2. the three points made it easy to teach about the Trinity. Through his service, the Germanic tribes began to convert.

Pablo, To your point: 1. we need to clearly establish the origin of the "Generation" or it's a moot point. 2. we need to clearly be able to establish that ALL of said generation has passed away in order for your demands to be met. 1948 is a KEY historical marker because of all the ancient peoples, the Jews are the only ones remaining that have not been absorbed or morphed into someone else. The Jews are the only people who can clearly track and show by historical blood lines that they belong to such and such tribe of the 12 tribes. I think what you are asking for is an impossibility because we can't clearly know. And making an assumption based upon years passing is not a true indicator. So for those who say each generation has it's "signs and wonders" I can only tell you that one of the LAST prophecies was that of Israel becoming a nation again, after that, the prophecies revolved around wars and judgments.

So let's sit back and watch, but don't forget Daniel had end time prophecies as well....

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

Makes more sense than believing everything came from absolutely nothing that for no reason exploded into everything.

November 22nd, 2013, 11:06 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Questions about the Bible, Jesus and Christianity.

Careful Blue you're showing your ignorance....

You have Father

You have the Son through whom all things were created

and then You have the Holy Spirit, also known as the Helper who moves and operates according to the will of the Father.

All 3 are God, but God is a TITLE.

As I thought about the above statement, I think it sounds a little more harsh that what I intended, so please allow me the opportunity to explain what I mean. If I remember correctly Blue, you're British right? So if I followed in your footsteps (symbolically) and started ragging on the Queen wouldn't I be speaking out of ignorance?

1. I've heard or read things about her2. I'm familiar with the Royalty system she represents3. I do not know her personally so can not make a true judgment about her4. Because of that lack of personal knowledge any claims I make would be well, ignorant.

There has been much talk and banter on this board by people who do NOT have a personal relationship with the Lord. With that being the case, they are passing judgment of Him based upon flawed, fallible, wounded people who may or may not have a relationship with him, but claim they do. For example: roughly 80% of the United States claims to be Christian, but if you look at the FRUITS of this nation (culturally and otherwise) you see that they don't match the tree. It is my honest and humble opinion that many of you who are passing these judgments have grown up in a RELIGIOUS system, become disenfranchised with what they were peddling, and have chosen to walk away altogether. I DON'T BLAME YOU.

Christianity is filled with flawed, broken, wounded individuals who have come to know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. IF they continue in that relationship and are growing, the selfish, sinful things of life begin to fall away as they learn, and walk with Him. You all have seen with your own eyes, the transformations in me. I did not do this on my own accord, there were things I had to experience, learn, and let go of that brought me to my current place.

I also get the impression that many of you hold God accountable for things that have happened, or things you've experienced in the RELIGIOUS SYSTEM, or from Christians themselves. For that matter, even me. IF this is true, I apologize with all of my heart for hurting, frustrating, making you angry, or anything else. My intent has not been to hurt or anger, but to show people where I've found the bread of Life.

Using the above example, I could continue to hold a grudge against the Queen for the actions of her predecessors and how they affected my family, but what sense would that make? She didn't order the difficulties, she just happens to represent the family and the hierarchal cast system that goes along with royalty. So I hope this explains the thought process by which I stated the above, and I hope we each have a Blessed Thanksgiving holiday.

And if I may be so bold, I would like to invite you all to take a look at my recently released book, if you wish. Inside you'll find individual perspectives and insights based upon circumstances in my life that are mixed with Scripture to help teach a different way of looking at the circumstances. Such topics range from "Bride in a dirty dress" which talks about the state of the church, to "Snakebit: Anatomy of a spiritual attack" which discusses my own struggles as a man. I hope y'all will check it out, and share the with friends and family this CHRIST mas season. Be blessed!

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."