You're the guy who is fine with individuals having their ability to donate limited, but strenuously object to corporations being limited in their ability to bribe Congress in the name of "free speech".

Yes, you do target the tyrants and their tools--for your undying support.

Originally Posted by angelatc

There's not a liberty lover on the planet who isn't called a liberal by the right, and a con by the left.

Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

You're the guy who is fine with individuals having their ability to donate limited, but strenuously object to corporations being limited in their ability to bribe Congress in the name of "free speech".

Yes, you do target the tyrants and their tools--for your undying support.

More lies, I have never supported any limits on anyone's donations.

You have supported government control of political speech, you are one of the tyrants' tools.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004

Yes, I generally favor things which I favor, and not things which I don't.

I'm odd that way.

No, not all...that's most people...they are favor of doing whatever it takes to advance their goals.

The nationalistic policies presently in vogue in the West are not so justified (i.e. they don't and won't advance liberty).

And nationalism can never be justified as an end (by a libertarian).

If one views nationalism as an end (as SwordStaffel does), one is not a libertarian.

So, where else in the world are these words being used:

they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

No, not all...that's most people...they are favor of doing whatever it takes to advance their goals.

As a libertarian, the options are pragmatism (ends justify means) or purism (i.e. uncompromising anarcho-capitalism).

You seem to be criticizing the former, and yet your own views run contrary to the latter.

So...?

So, where else in the world are these words being used:

they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ó That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,

Go read some foreign constitutions.

Lots of peoples pay lip service to such ideas, as we do here.

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."

Ending incentives is not enough without active measures to secure the border

That was not the point, the point was that active measures are needed to control the border and immigration.

You also keep accusing me of being racist in neg reps for supporting immigration and border controls even though I make it quite clear that it isn't about race.

I have exposed my position of wanting to end welfare? What?? You made the claim that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," so I'll ask you again: can you name any measures to secure the border that I oppose? I really thought this would be easier for you.

"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

I have exposed my position of wanting to end welfare? What?? You made the claim that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," so I'll ask you again: can you name any measures to secure the border that I oppose? I really thought this would be easier for you.

The point of the post about ending welfare was to claim that was the only thing we should do about illegals and you are ignoring the other things I quoted.

I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

The point of the post about ending welfare was to claim that was the only thing we should do about illegals and you are ignoring the other things I quoted.

Where did you see the word "only" in any of the posts you quoted???

Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I don't really care if I happen to be wrong about your positions, you are wrong about mine.

Wrong. You lefties don't get to constantly defame us with impunity. The conservatives are fighting back; starting with me, right now.

You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

Wrong. You lefties don't get to constantly defame us with impunity. The conservatives are fighting back; starting with me, right now.

You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

I will accept that I might be wrong about your position if you stop calling me racist, I have always made it clear that it is not about race, it is about liberty culture.
It would also help if you explained what active measures to secure the border you would support.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

I will accept that I might be wrong about your position if you stop calling me racist, I have always made it clear that it is not about race, it is about liberty culture.

No, it doesn't work that way. If I have misunderstood or misconstrued your positions, I'll have to fix that, but not right now because you don't get to change the subject. You made the claim that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," so you have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

It would also help if you explained what active measures to secure the border you would support.

No, it doesn't work that way. YOU made a claim, YOU defend it. You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

No, it doesn't work that way. If I have misunderstood or misconstrued your positions, I'll have to fix that, but not right now because you don't get to change the subject. You made the claim that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," so you have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

No, it doesn't work that way. YOU made a claim, YOU defend it. You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

I gave better reason for my opinion about your position than you ever did for your opinion of mine and I am offering to take your word for your position if you take my word for mine.

Deal?

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

I gave better reason for my opinion about your position than you ever did for your opinion of mine and I am offering to take your word for your position if you take my word for mine.

Deal?

You gave literally zero reason for your defamation except that I oppose welfare. Let's try this again: You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

You gave literally zero reason for your defamation except that I oppose welfare. Let's try this again: You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

I gave a better reason than that but it doesn't matter, you never gave any reason for calling me a racist.

Let's just drop the past and I will take your word about your position if you take my word for mine.

Deal or no deal?

I would also like to hear what your position is on active border security measures beyond ending welfare.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

You gave literally zero reason for your defamation except that I oppose welfare. Let's try this again: You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious.

If that isn't clear enough by now, maybe you need glasses or your monitor hasn't been cleaned in ten years.

"The Patriarch"

willie with tan lines: enjoy the shots and the woman

Originally Posted by Schifference

The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.

I gave a better reason than that but it doesn't matter, you never gave any reason for calling me a racist.

Let's just drop the past and I will take your word about your position if you take my word for mine.

Deal or no deal?

I would also like to hear what your position is on active border security measures beyond ending welfare.

No, it doesn't work that way; you don't get to constantly defame us with impunity. The conservatives are fighting back; starting with me, right now. You don't get to change the subject, and you don't get to sweep it under the rug. You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious. An honest person who believed I oppose most measures to secure the border wouldn't just pretend to believe me, and an honest person who realized I don't oppose most measures to secure the border would apologize. What would a dishonest person do? Change the subject in order to not expose his defamation.

I would be more than happy to fix any wrong opinions I have about you, and I would be happy to discus more of my ideas about border security, but not till we deal with your defamation. Deal?

"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy

No, it doesn't work that way; you don't get to constantly defame us with impunity. The conservatives are fighting back; starting with me, right now. You don't get to change the subject, and you don't get to sweep it under the rug. You have three options: you can demonstrate that I "oppose most measures to secure the border," you can apologize for being wrong when you obviously didn't even try to understand what I have made clear, or you can just continue as though what you said was true and make it clear to everyone your purpose here is nefarious. An honest person who believed I oppose most measures to secure the border wouldn't just pretend to believe me, and an honest person who realized I don't oppose most measures to secure the border would apologize. What would a dishonest person do? Change the subject in order to not expose his defamation.

I would be more than happy to fix any wrong opinions I have about you, and I would be happy to discus more of my ideas about border security, but not till we deal with your defamation. Deal?

I think we are talking past eachother so I will just say that I will accept your word about your position and withdraw my claim.
We will see if you are big enough to do the same now.

I will not be the first to apologize however, you insulted me first and never apologized, if you apologize first then I will.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

Robert Heinlein

Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

Groucho Marx

I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

Linus, from the Peanuts comic

You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

Alexis de Torqueville

Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

I will not be the first to apologize however, you insulted me first and never apologized, if you apologize first then I will.

We'll get to that; no changing the subject.

Originally Posted by Swordsmyth

I think we are talking past eachother so I will just say that I will accept your word about your position and withdraw my claim.

You can't just sweep your defamation under the rug. If you can so easily withdraw your claim and never even try to defend it, you obviously didn't really believe it, so why did you make such a hefty accusation if you didn't believe it?

"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather

"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy