This actually sounds like a very reasonable approach. It is well known that 25 man is currently the less challenging model at this time. It makes great sense that if you cannot complete on 10 you go in with 25, which is what many players are currently doing anyway.

No, I attack you for defending an utterly flawed concept and being stubborn after many people told you that your assumptions are wrong.
I also attack you for defending your theory when the only thing you actually want from it is feeling better then those people that raid 25mans.

You would be willing to sacrifice half the games community just sou you can feel elite. You know what that is called?
"Egoism".

That's going a bit overboard don't you think? All it is is a relatively uneducated solution put forward to a problem being bounced around.

Maybe. but keep in mind that the whole reason for his Idea is not to make the game better, it's about to make himself feel better.

I know that many members of both raid sizes are Guilty of elitism and thinking that the other size ain't "the real thing" and thus looks down upon it's members. If we want to have any sort of productive discussion or nice game environment we need to get past that point.

He probably doesn't even raid, or if he does definitely not at a heroic level. Anyone who puts any kind of effort into raiding knows this idea is not possible. Doesn't have anything to do with 10v25 arguments and elitism, though I'm sure if I read the whole thread it pops up somewhere, always does..

let's say I magically get to choose how the game is at my whim, and you are there to convince me not to. why would it not work?

boss health stays the same, but other things can be different. why can't we make longer lasting fights on 10-heroic and much shorter on normal and LFR?

also, by having groups split into smaller and "more elite" groups, you promote sociability on the realm (or bigger guilds with many raiding groups). I can't imagine this as a bad thing.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 02:48 PM ----------

Originally Posted by Granyala

Maybe. but keep in mind that the whole reason for his Idea is not to make the game better, it's about to make himself feel better.

no, it's to make the game logical. I'd probably be sticking to the 40-man LFR lol

Well, the more 1980 laptops that go poof the more new computers that are actually rated to play the game will be built/purchased and the raiding comunity will improve.

I have no problem running 40 man events on my computer and it did not cost that much. Insisting on dragging down 39 other players because your computer is "good enough for me" costs a lot in game terms.

let's say I magically get to choose how the game is at my whim, and you are there to convince me not to. why would it not work?

Because you would ruin any 25man guild that currently raids heroic modes and is having fun?

Because you would force every guild to reform to 25man upon the start of a tier, gear up and SPLIT again to try out your glorious 10m heroics.
You are completely delusional if you honestly think that players would put up with such a concept and that the game would be better.

Apparently you played in BC, but you learned NOTHING from it's mistakes. The transition from 10m Karazhan to 25man Gruul was BRUTAL and many Guilds just got stuck in Kara. Probably one of the reasons Blizzard introduced 10m ZA.

no, it's to make the game logical.

Logical would be to just flat our remove 10man difficulty and going back to designing unique 10m raids with "lesser evils" in it. You can see above why logic isn't really always good for the game.

BTW you point of view is flawed. For a pure 10m raiding guild the 25m should be perceived as nonexistent. So they have the normal boss and the boss on steroids (HC).
W/O the constant bickering of players that want to feel superior they wouldn't even know that 25m is much harder on some and easier on other bosses.

Well, the more 1980 laptops that go poof the more new computers that are actually rated to play the game will be built/purchased and the raiding comunity will improve.

I have no problem running 40 man events on my computer and it did not cost that much. Insisting on dragging down 39 other players because your computer is "good enough for me" costs a lot in game terms.

I concur, that's why I run an Ivy Setup now. But from a Business PoV you want to support those laptops for as long as you can to maximize profits.

Logical would be to just flat our remove 10man difficulty and going back to designing unique 10m raids with "lesser evils" in it. You can see above why logic isn't really always good for the game.

that or to remove 25-mans and keep the lesser evils in 5-man dungeons.

or they could put a 2.5x player buff on 10-mans and have equal healths on bosses.

or whatever. it just bothers me to no end how pressing a button on user interface changes the boss's strength entirely.

EDIT: maybe even a buff on 25-man bosses like "well prepared: seeing as there were so many people invading his fortress, this boss prepared himself well and drank all his milk this morning. he's tough!"

let's say I magically get to choose how the game is at my whim, and you are there to convince me not to. why would it not work?

boss health stays the same, but other things can be different. why can't we make longer lasting fights on 10-heroic and much shorter on normal and LFR?

also, by having groups split into smaller and "more elite" groups, you promote sociability on the realm (or bigger guilds with many raiding groups). I can't imagine this as a bad thing.

---------- Post added 2013-02-03 at 02:48 PM ----------

no, it's to make the game logical. I'd probably be sticking to the 40-man LFR lol

So if only the bosses health stays the same and everything else can change, how is that any different at all to the way things are now? All you are doing is shifting around a few numbers and utterly destroying the community of raiding as we know it. It wont work, simple as that. 10 and 25 being separate entities are so ingrained into the modern WoW that any attempt to radically change the system will likely end up alienating a far larger portion of the player base than it satisfies. Why would a business purposefully lose money all for a flawed attempt at creating "logic"?

Your persistence of vision does not come without great sacrifice. Let go of the tangible mass of your mind, it is only an illusion. There is no escape.. For the soul burns on everlasting encapsulated within infinite time. A thousand year journey at the blink of an eye... Humanity is dust..

or whatever. it just bothers me to no end how pressing a button on user interface changes the boss's strength entirely.

Well If Blizzard does it's job and tunes them right 10m vs 25m should be about equal.

As for the Heroic mode switch:

I hear you man... I hear you.
That's the main thing I detest about heroic modes.

Back in Cata we wiped 3hrs on Chimaeron HC... after that the RL flipped a switch and we one shot it on normal to get the loot before the reset.

And then there's MoP. After months of progression through all 3 dungeons, we finally downed Sha in the beginning of January. (Yeah I realize I outed myself. I'll live with the flames of not being 1337)

*flip switch*

Woo wiping on Dogs... Feng.. then Garajal.. wee progressing on Elegon yay down!... Blade lord is next.. wait.. didn't we already do that a few months back?

That would make 10's much harder and still give the same loot.
I doubt people would enjoy that.

It would also mean that competitive raiding (top 100) would screw every 25-guild.
LFR is easy enough as it is, making it 40 would be too much.

As much as I would like to see 40m raiding return and Lfr being the perfect platform for it to happen on I can see a large portion of the playerbase QQ'ing about not being able to use Lfr because of their crappy ass old computers and inferior internet connections.

Oddly enough I remember running molten core back in 2004/2005 with a single core 1.8ghz processor and a 56k modem
(with less connection issues than a modern AT&T Dsl service)

This would probably pretty much f**k up the raiding scene
1) It will completely destroy the entire causal raiding scene today, since they are pretty much all 10 man guilds nowdays. They would all be forced to go 25 man just to be available to make that 1-2 raiding days with friends/week possible. This will cause a lot of ppl to quit.
2) It would kill the entire semi and hardcore 25 man raidingscene, since ppl that plays in 25 man guilds that or focusing on hardmodes are in 25 man guilds because they want to raid 25 man. They would now be forced to go 10 man instead and that would mean a lot of this ppl would actually quit instead
3) The alt scene on everything except top 100 guilds would die out, since i guess that 99% of the alts that are raiding are doing it in 10 man raids.
4) All the semi hardcore 10 man guild would be forced to get 15 new members that are just going to join on the normal clear where the 10 man that is going hc will take all the loot so they can progress in hc.