Videos: Should US cut aid to Egypt over coup?

posted at 4:01 pm on July 5, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The Washington Post editorial board certainly thinks so. Declaring that “there is no ambiguity about what happened in Egypt on Wednesday,” the editors want American funding cut off until “a genuinely democratic transition” occurs. They also rip the White House for its ineffectual foreign policy on Egypt over the last two years (h/t reader Peter Rice):

Having not spoken up against the excesses of Mr. Morsi’s government, the Obama administration has, with equal fecklessness, failed to forthrightly oppose the military intervention. But there should be no question that under a law passed by Congress, U.S. aid to Egypt — including the $1.3 billion annual grant to the military — must be suspended.

Some in the administration and Congress will try to avoid this step, because of the armed forces’ history as a U.S. ally and guarantor of peace with Israel. But the suspension of aid is the necessary first step in a U.S. policy that advances the aim Mr. Obama laid out in a Wednesday night statement: “to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt’s democracy.”

CNN reports that the White House has other priorities at the moment, which are to ensure that the military will protect Americans in Egypt — and to stress that we don’t want to take sides:

Aid to Egypt may potentially be used as leverage to pressure Egypt’s interim government, backed by the nation’s powerful military, to maintain security and bring fresh elections to restore democracy to the country, Obama administration officials tell CBS News.

The White House is now engaging in a high stakes, high-wire balancing act, CBS News’ Jan Crawford reported on “CBS This Morning.”

“On the one hand, they don’t want to be seen as endorsing what appears to be a military coup, but on the other hand, they don’t want to be seen as supporting this ousted Muslim Brotherhood-backed leader who had lost popular support,” explained Crawford.

The bottom line now, Crawford said, is security in Egypt and a quick timeline set for the elections — and that was on President Obama’s agenda on Wednesday.

Using aid as leverage isn’t exactly a novel concept, and in this case it’s practically the only leverage we have in Egypt now after embracing the disastrous Morsi regime. However, it’s more than a little odd to argue that we should suspend aid over a popular military coup after having provided it for more than 30 years under military rule, first with Anwar Sadat and then with Hosni Mubarak. Obviously, our aid to the Egyptian military then and now wasn’t in support of enlightened liberal-democratic rule; it was to use the Egyptian military as a way to keep the peace with Israel, and secondarily to keep the Suez Canal open to Western traffic.

What happens if we suspend aid? The reason that Egypt’s democratic government became unsustainable was because the Muslim Brotherhood turned out to be entirely incompetent and not just a little corrupt. Mostly, though, it’s because of an economic crisis made much worse by both failings of the Muslim Brotherhood. The only way to fix that problem is to create enough space so that other, more competent and less radical political factions have enough time and space to effectively organize. That’s what should have happened the first time around, rather than the relatively quick elections that made the Brotherhood the only effectively organized political group in Egypt. Snap elections would create a similar problem now, perhaps especially so if we cut Egypt off from the aid it receives from the US to keep the peace with Israel.

The situation in Egypt is a mess, made worse by our earlier pressure and interference. Maybe we should learn a lesson from that, and remember why we’re providing the aid in the first place.

Besides, some people in Egypt take offense at the notion that the action taken this week is a coup at all:

We shouldn’t be selling things like M1 tanks and top-rate aircraft overseas, anyway, except to trusted allies like NATO, Japan, and Israel.

Given Obama’s revealed nature, cutting off aid sounds like a spiteful move against a country trying to throw off the budding Islamism of the Obama Brotherhood. It’s still a form of American imperialism to punish a people for conducting their internal affairs in a way that pose no threat to the United States.

The coup was the election of Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood! They went into a rapid over reach by persecuting Christians and invoking Sharia and other authoritarian steps…..the Army had seen enough! The economy went into a freefall after Morsi started implementing his plans!

BHO will not go down as a Foreign Policy wonk…..more like a Jimmah Carter dupe!

…the suspension of aid is the necessary first step in a U.S. policy that advances the aim Mr. Obama laid out in a Wednesday night statement: “to ensure the lasting restoration of Egypt’s democracy.”

No, it isn’t, because:

…it’s more than a little odd to argue that we should suspend aid over a popular military coup after having provided it for more than 30 years under military rule, first with Anwar Sadat and then with Hosni Mubarak.

Obviously, our aid to the Egyptian military then and now wasn’t in support of enlightened liberal-democratic rule; it was to use the Egyptian military as a way to keep the peace with Israel, and secondarily to keep the Suez Canal open to Western traffic.

What happens if we suspend aid? The reason that Egypt’s democratic government became unsustainable was because the Muslim Brotherhood turned out to be entirely incompetent and not just a little corrupt. Mostly, though, it’s because of an economic crisis made much worse by both failings of the Muslim Brotherhood.

Yeah funny how a 7th century business model doesn’t work anymore, not to mention their barbaric legal code.

Let’s face it, we have been supplying money and weapons for most of my lifetime (I am 56) to Egypt and other countries in the Middle East in an attempt to appease them or to thwart Soviet influences there. It does not always work. I am not sure what the region would look like if we had not done that, but that has been US policy since Kennedy was in office. It might be time to rethink that.

Using aid as leverage isn’t exactly a novel concept, and in this case it’s practically the only leverage we have in Egypt now after embracing the disastrous Morsi regime. However, it’s more than a little odd to argue that we should suspend aid over a popular military coup after having provided it for more than 30 years under military rule, first with Anwar Sadat and then with Hosni Mubarak.

What’s the law say. What’s our law say? If it fits the description of a condition where aid should be cut off, then we chould cut off aid. Congress can always make an exception by passing a specific law to reinstate the aid.

It’s more than a little odd to complain about the President ignoring the law in some instances, like delaying provisions of Obamacare, and then going about approving of the ignoring of laws because you think it “odd” to not to ignore it.

Only $250M of last years aid was nonmilitary direct supply grants. That $250M was the aid Obama gave Morsi after the Brotherhood took over. It was a gift without Congressional approval as it violated the foreign aid authorization that requires Obama to certify the Brotherhood was not a terrorist organization or antithetical to USA. Obama had no reason other than the sheer pleasure of watching another Muslim nutcase attempt to start a war.

No aid cut. They just did us and themselves a big favor and you don’t swat your dog when he brings you the paper. Now, down the road if there is no return to civilian rule you can revisit the aid issue but right now, I would send the aid and add a box of chocolates with a big Thank You note.

Maybe we should increase military support because of the coup. Heck, Homeland Security and the IRS have a couple billion bullets laying around. Oh, wait. Barack Obama, John McCain, “Miss Lucy” Graham and Marco Rubio think we should be supporting the Muslim Brotherhood and Al Qaeda.

The situation in Egypt is a mess, made worse by our earlier pressure and interference. Maybe we should learn a lesson from that, and remember why we’re providing the aid in the first place.

This is the key concept I’ve been churning in my mind the last few days. It could be applied to anywhere that Obozo has meddled: Libya, Israel, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, North Korea, and Washington, DC to namea few.

If Obama didn’t meddle in the first place, few of these questions would be coming up. Now, he is more adrift since his initial doings failed, so it’s time to do damage control and hope everyone forgets the past two years. That’s why the media are talking about ‘a second chance for Obama’, and the White House put out that self-serving photo of him with his staff.

I’ll bet dollars to donuts most of the talk centered around how to protect Obama and keep him looking good.

“On the one hand, they don’t want to be seen as endorsing what appears to be a military coup, but on the other hand, they don’t want to be seen as supporting this ousted Muslim Brotherhood-backed leader who had lost popular support,” explained Crawford.

Obama waived the human rights and civil liberties requirements for US aid two months ago for the Muslim Brotherhood.

Ordinarily, I am opposed to ALL foreign aid, but in this case, we really have to ask if we want Egypt to completely collapse. The Egyptian military has control of the Suez Canal, as did the MoFoBros. If the Canal is closed, it would add 6,500 miles to a tanker, which would cause a great increase in oil prices.

Yes, if the idiots in Washington didn’t hate oil and invest so stupidly in green energy projects that are incapable of powering our economy, we wouldn’t have this problem. We wouldn’t have to worry about the Suez being closed.

Despite what many pundits are saying, we need the Egyptian military more than it needs us at this conjuncture in time.

Oh BS! Until they stop with their theocratic bs, they won’t ever have a democracy. Tight now, we should offer more aid to the military if they put our interests first.
When will these butt-heads learn that it’s not the talk it’s the walk?

Chairman of the Iranian Parliament’s National Security and Foreign Policy Commission Alaeddin Boroujerdi said that ousted President Mohamed Mursi and Muslim Brotherhood are to be blamed for the current political crisis in Egypt.

“What happened in Egypt was actually a soft coup staged by the Egyptian army, which was unfortunately the result of repeated mistakes by ousted Egyptian President Mohamed Mursi and Muslim Brotherhood …,” Boroujerdi said on Thursday.

The senior Iranian legislator underlined that Mursi’s repeated mistakes, Muslim Brotherhood’s power grab and their lack of attention to other political groups and prominent political figures who had a part in Egypt’s developments resulted in Mursi’s ouster from power.

After days of massive anti-government protests in Egypt, the military overthrew the country’s President Mohamed Mursi.

Late Wednesday in a speech on state television, General Abdel Fattah al-Sisi, the head of Egypt’s army, announced that Mursi was no longer in office.

20% of the Egyptian population represented by people of all religions and all walks of life; the Egyptian military that has been a stabilizing force in Egypt for the past 40 years and has had many of the same objectives as the United States. These are the ingredients for a peaceful westernized society that will for their own good do their best to keep the region stable.

These are people who want things that are collaterally beneficial to the United States. The opposition are a bunch of Muslim thugs whose desires are anathema to our own.

WHY SHOULD WE NOT CHOOSE SIDES AND GIVE AID TO PEOPLE WHO HAVE EVERY INTEREST IN KEEPING THE REGION STABLE AGAINST THOSE WHO ARE OUR ENEMIES?

No! The US should not give Egypt aid not because of the coup – which the Egyptians had every right to want & celebrate – but because the money for the welfare of Egyptians is not the responsibility of the American taxpayer!

Lets not forget that a very large percentage of Muslim Egyptians despise our infidel guts not only for religious reasons (for Allah’s sake, as they say) but for supporting Israel which they would like to annihilate.

Lets stop dumping our money on death-to-America Muslim countries that are trying hard to self-destruct anyway. Let Saudi Arabia dump their money on them, or Europe which is much closer. Why must we be the generous sucker the mid-East always plays us for when we have major economic problems & needs at home?

For years we have been essentially bribing (with billions) Egypt to keep peace with Israel. Must be the military weapons industry lobby; the Egyptian military is no where near stupid enough to attack Israel anyway. Let’s stop the expensive nonsense.

From the top down, or bottom up, what other segment of the Egyptian population does so much, puts up with so much, undergoes the hardships for the sake of the nation…and what other group in Egyptian society offers such social mobility…Omar Suleiman, Tantawi, al-Sissi…all came from dirt poor to far better…and Team Obama wants to cut them off at the knees so the jackals can take over again?

Now, a serious question, under Carter’s mandate with the Camp David Accords, the US is obligated by law (Congress approved it) to provide a set amount of aid to Egypt and Israel annually as guarantor of the Accords. If the aid is withheld, do the Accords then become moot?

The administration has urged the Egyptian military to stop using heavy-handed tactics, according to two U.S. officials who asked not to be identified commenting on the private communications. They said the administration is concerned that some in the military may want to provoke the Islamists to violence and provide a rationale for crushing the movement once and for all.

AP VIDEO: The Egyptian military clashes with supporters of ousted President Mohammed Morsi: http://apne.ws/127OHYX -MM
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Published on Jul 5, 2013
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Two days after Egyptian President Mohammed Morsi was ousted, the military is clashing with his supporters. The Egyptian Health Ministry says 10 people have been killed and more than 210 have been injured in violent protests around the country. (July 5)

From the top down, or bottom up, what other segment of the Egyptian population does so much, puts up with so much, undergoes the hardships for the sake of the nation…and what other group in Egyptian society offers such social mobility…Omar Suleiman, Tantawi, al-Sissi…all came from dirt poor to far better…and Team Obama wants to cut them off at the knees so the jackals can take over again?

Now, a serious question, under Carter’s mandate with the Camp David Accords, the US is obligated by law (Congress approved it) to provide a set amount of aid to Egypt and Israel annually as guarantor of the Accords. If the aid is withheld, do the Accords then become moot?

When you go down to clean out the basement after one of those epic Mid West floods…sewers backing up, mildew, rot and all that muck…you know it is going to be a dirty dirty job…but if you do not do it…the entire house is going to fall.

Yes, it will get a bit dirty in Egypt…but the sewage, the mildew, the rot…somebody has got to clean it up.

Give the military time to do that.

Give Adli Mansour and the interim government and the Egyptian Supreme Court the ability to do what they have to do as well.

Team Obama would rather cut them all off and let the sewage back up again, let the mildew fester and grow and the rot deepen….they are well familiar with that stuff.

What we’re buying is compliance with the Camp David Accords. And despite everything, Egypt still does comply.

[Steven Den Beste on July 5, 2013 at 4:59 PM]

Now, a serious question, under Carter’s mandate with the Camp David Accords, the US is obligated by law (Congress approved it) to provide a set amount of aid to Egypt and Israel annually as guarantor of the Accords. If the aid is withheld, do the Accords then become moot?

[coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 6:42 PM]

Thanks for those comments (and to anyone else who I might have missed in pointing this out.) I’d been for the suspension based on the general indications that the law would require it (though wanting Congress to reestablish it with specific legislation) and have not been able to actually find the law.

If your points are actually related to treaty or general agreement obligations or a specific law in regard to this agreement, then I have no problem with changing my opinion, as I would consider these provisions for the aid to supersede a general/generic provision that would require suspension.

Clashes broke out on friday evening in central Cairo just by Tahrir Square on the 6th of October bridge between pro & anti-Morsi demonstrators. the video shows a number of scenes which convey the events there on. including use of live ammunition on both sides.
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The Army has less than a week to tamp this down. Otherwise the frequency of foreign fighters and other jihadis making Egypt their playground a la Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechneya, increases exponentially. And it immediately goes from a Moslem Brotherhood inspired civil war to an all out jihadi free for all.

If the Army is not permitted to root out the Brotherhood…and at the same time make it safe for necessary food and fuel supplies to be distributed to the outlying cities and to the south…then the entire pharaonic mess goes right down the dumper.

Trying to “impose” democracy in the middle of open warfare is a pretty short-sighted idea.

But never underestimate the ability of Team Obama to get it wrong, yet again.

The Army has less than a week to tamp this down. Otherwise the frequency of foreign fighters and other jihadis making Egypt their playground a la Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechneya, increases exponentially. And it immediately goes from a Moslem Brotherhood inspired civil war to an all out jihadi free for all.

If the Army is not permitted to root out the Brotherhood…and at the same time make it safe for necessary food and fuel supplies to be distributed to the outlying cities and to the south…then the entire pharaonic mess goes right down the dumper.

Trying to “impose” democracy in the middle of open warfare is a pretty short-sighted idea.

But never underestimate the ability of Team Obama to get it wrong, yet again.

coldwarrior on July 5, 2013 at 8:03 PM

coldwarrior:

Syria,Part Deux,lord what a nightmare,and Obama,the Left have a warped sense of what Democracy is!:)

(Reuters) – Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro said on Friday he had decided to offer asylum to former U.S. intelligence contractor Edward Snowden, who has petitioned several countries to avoid capture by Washington.

“I have decided to offer humanitarian asylum to the young American, Edward Snowden, so that in the fatherland of (Simon) Bolivar and (Hugo) Chavez, he can come and live away from the imperial North American persecution,” Maduro told a televised parade marking Venezuela’s independence day.

Snowden is believed to be holed up in the transit area of a Moscow international airport.

I wonder what Lawrence of Arabia would say about Obama,
about this Islamic attempt take-over of Egypt!:)

canopfor on July 5, 2013 at 8:26 PM

“El-Orens”, given that name in gratitude by the tribesmen he led…kinda plain sounding, but it did reflect his name…Lawrence.

Me?

They gave me a more flowery sounding name…”ibn el Sharmoota.” Sounded nothing like my given name, but no matter where I traveled in the Middle East, somebody was there waiting to personally by name greet me…often.

Looks to me like the Egyptian military was between a rock and a hard place (though one of those might not be so hard given the US pattern of conducting foreign policy). They could respect the elections, watch the country deteriorate, and be called out to break skulls of the people protesting the deterioration OR they could do something they can do — topple the government — and try to salvage something workable from all the wreckage. A situation where the choices were all bad, one way or another. The outcome, some time in the future, will pass judgement on whether it was the best of bad choices.

Given the way US Foreign policy has been conducted over the past several years, if the military were to put together something that seems to work reasonably well despite the problems that the Muslim Brotherhood will pose, I suspect that it would be called a “good” end through bad means. That might figure into the decision to go or no go.

Although there is no “do over”, I think it would be ironic if, in an alternate world, the military chose to sit tight, have the situation dissolve into wholesale civil war and slaughter, then to listen to Congress complain that the military stood by while, maybe many tens of thousands died. Conveniently forgetting the Cut off funding if there is a coup provision.

You were buying all Arab petrol being sold in US Dollars only, Suez being and stable, exclusion of Soviet Russian influence in the region, and non-proliferation of nuclear weapons by Arab states, in exchange for 1) a paralyzing status-quo peace with Israel, 2) a nuclear umbrella for Arab states, and 3) US support for dictatorships willing to play ball.

The US-Arab alliance has been strong since WW2 (and is downplayed), where as the US-Israel alliance is a horrible joke (and is played-up out of proportion) ever since Israel became a “long-term” problem when it attained nuclear weapon capabilities (US policy changed after the ’73 war).

Nobody understands US policy. The US will keep aid to whoever rules Egypt so long as they follow the treaty with Israel, which keeps Suez stable, Israel paralyzed, and thus signals the other Arab states that the deal is still on and that they can keep selling their petrol in USD.