catmoon wrote:I read that a while ago. The only problem with it is, it doesn't look at any of the positives in Theraveda, and there are many. Try reading a little Ajahn Chah and you'll see what I mean.

I second that

The forest tradition in Thailand such as that of Ajarn Chah is strict and has good teaching. The city monasteries are quite different.

catmoon wrote:I read that a while ago. The only problem with it is, it doesn't look at any of the positives in Theraveda, and there are many. Try reading a little Ajahn Chah and you'll see what I mean.

If i'm remembering right actually mentions Ajan Chah and a number of other well known people in Theraveda in some detail, and praises them. His claim is that these people stand out especially because the larger culture is so ineffectual, obsessed with minutiae and negatives, etc.

Like I said I don't know enough to form an opinion really, but IF what he is saying is true, it stands to explain stuff like the photos a bit..maybe.

I guess it just struck me as having some real parallels to how Christianity often functions in the US, turning into the opposite of what it purports to be in some cases.

Your memory is probably better than mine. All I recall is the sizzling condemnation of the monk's practice.

catmoon wrote:I read that a while ago. The only problem with it is, it doesn't look at any of the positives in Theraveda, and there are many. Try reading a little Ajahn Chah and you'll see what I mean.

If i'm remembering right actually mentions Ajan Chah and a number of other well known people in Theraveda in some detail, and praises them. His claim is that these people stand out especially because the larger culture is so ineffectual, obsessed with minutiae and negatives, etc.

Like I said I don't know enough to form an opinion really, but IF what he is saying is true, it stands to explain stuff like the photos a bit..maybe.

I guess it just struck me as having some real parallels to how Christianity often functions in the US, turning into the opposite of what it purports to be in some cases.

Your memory is probably better than mine. All I recall is the sizzling condemnation of the monk's practice.

He does go on for an incredibly long time with anecdotes of bad things he saw in Theravdein countries..in fact the book could probably 30 pages or something as opposed to 80 if some of that were streamlined. Way too many redundant stories of bad things. At the end he does give credit to a number of Theravedins, and as far as I can tell he himself still draws most of his inspiration from the Pali canon though, so I did not come away (as a relative neophyte compared to many) with a bad impression of Theraveda as a school of thought by any means.

muni wrote:Buddhism threatening with hell....well, losing compassion can be a kind of hell.

So can anger and greed.Heaven is compassion,calmness,and moderation while hell is lack of compassion,anger,and greed.

A person once asked me why I would want to stop rebirth. "It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want to be reborn."I replied. "Wanting to be reborn is like wanting to stay in a jail cell, when you have the chance to go free and experience the whole wide world. Does a convict, on being freed from his shabby, constricting, little cell, suddenly say "I really want to go back to jail and be put in a cell. It sounds pretty cool. Being able to come back. Who wouldn't want that?"

As a Buddhist and an atheist when I look at such Tantric imagery I think of the fact that all 5 poisons are used to construct the Human Realm, and that real life equivalents of all the landscapes from God Realm to Hot Hell exist in the events of the World somewhere all the time. So I don't need a duplication of the 6 realms in an alternate dimension. I get it.

But Buddhism has its own evils. The questionable way the excuse "people of smaller minds need the Dharma explained in terms they can relate to" facilitates selling magical rites for health and wealth rites for instance.

"Saving poor people" by frightening them into "Good karma making behavior" is pretty arrogant an attitude too.

I don't think ranking Views in teaching environments should stretch to "selling" different Views of Dharma by demographic in carrying the Dharma to the World.

Also, the way Buddhists all over the world shrug off child prostitution and those suffering from social evils by saying "it's their Karma, not my business" - Buddhism is millions of people, the 5th largest religion. It's all over the map as to what you will see it do.

On the other hand - hell realm depictions are a kind of entertainment, just like Freddy. Look at Medieval 7 Sin Pageants in Europe! They were live action gore and soft-core porn shows that each ended in a gratuitous "punishment" of the sinner as the crowd roared!

Ikkyu, It's best not to put any religion on a pedestal. Buddhism and Eastern religion have got a better 'road map' Basically the message is, still your mind! How you do it and your level of concentration and ripeness is at the base of it. Some seekers try to find solitude in the mind and 'find themselves' others think they are doing something different and want silence to 'lose themselves'....whatever it's best just to keep quiet.

Let's face it. The hells of which the Buddha speaks are suffering to the max. But the source of suffering comes from seeking delight in the five skandhas, the psycho-physical organism, consisting of material shape, feeling, perception, habitual tendencies, and consciousness. This is why the Buddha taught escape from the pscyho-physical organism (S. iii. 29) and by, implication, escape from the hells.

And theres another one.. . if not mistaken where a monk after he passed away complain about being in heaven,and woke up back to his original body.. . and say he prefer to save people from hell or something?.. .

First of all "Buddhism" is not a monolithic bloc. It differs greatly from tradition to tradition, country to country, institution to institution. Thus one's mileage may vary when it comes to what "Buddhism" is "about", based on these differences to say nothing of the points that individuals choose to focus on. One video cannot be seen as being representative of "Buddhism" as a whole, or even Theravada or Thai Buddhism. Thus the question being asked here strikes me as misplaced.

That said, based on my experience I would say Buddhism is not about threatening people with anything. It's about cause and effect. Actions (karma) have consequences (karma vipaka). Truly understanding this, and using this understanding to cut off the root of suffering, is what Buddhism is "about". Everything else is just window dressing.

All compound phenomena are like a dream;a phantom, a drop of dew, a flash of lightningThat is how to meditate on themThat is how to observe them

“When a warrior exerts himself in battle, his mind is already debased and misdirected by the thought: 'May these men be slaughtered, annihilated, destroyed.' If others slay him while he is exerting himself in battle, after death, he will be reborn in the hell called the realm of those slain in battle” (Samyutta Nikaya XLII, 3).

Since buddhism is religion and religion is about hope and fear your assumption was not correct though "buddhism threatening people" is misleading wording since people are craving for hope and therefore are inevitably fear mongering .

GarcherLancelot wrote:Ok,so what are the ways one can end up in hell?Other than having bad karma in this lifetime.. .I heard the final thoughts before dying is also important.. .?.. .

You just answered your own question beautifully, you are just not grasping what the buddha meant by dying. You are constantly dying and becoming from moment to moment, if you doubt this look at your baby pictures is that really you?

Regarding the video in the OP, I believe it was created by Wat Dhammakaya, a group that should not in any way be considered mainline "Theravada". Many Theravadin practitioners over on Dhamma Wheel have compared it to Scientology or even outright labelled it as a cult. Having the conviction that your actions have consequences is far, far different than threatening people with a version of Hell that looks like a Sims expansion pack.

Also shoot, I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic. That's google search for ya.

The Way wrote:Regarding the video in the OP, I believe it was created by Wat Dhammakaya, a group that should not in any way be considered mainline "Theravada". Many Theravadin practitioners over on Dhamma Wheel have compared it to Scientology or even outright labelled it as a cult. Having the conviction that your actions have consequences is far, far different than threatening people with a version of Hell that looks like a Sims expansion pack.

Also shoot, I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic. That's google search for ya.

Also gonna gravedig here a little bit, and possibly be a little off topic, but I spoke with my Shingon teacher (who is an ordained lama) and he said that the concept of hell/the narakas in Buddhism is completely false, at least within Shingon.

The Way wrote:Regarding the video in the OP, I believe it was created by Wat Dhammakaya, a group that should not in any way be considered mainline "Theravada". Many Theravadin practitioners over on Dhamma Wheel have compared it to Scientology or even outright labelled it as a cult. Having the conviction that your actions have consequences is far, far different than threatening people with a version of Hell that looks like a Sims expansion pack.

Also shoot, I apologize for resurrecting such an old topic. That's google search for ya.

Also gonna gravedig here a little bit, and possibly be a little off topic, but I spoke with my Shingon teacher (who is an ordained lama) and he said that the concept of hell/the narakas in Buddhism is completely false, at least within Shingon.

The Buddha definitely taught the hell realms. You can read about them in the Sutta Nipatta, etc.

The point being that at the end of Path there is no fear, but obviously at the beginning there is. Since fear is such an strong operating principal in the spiritually immature, the enlightened use it to move the unawareness of the student towards awareness. It is seen as the thing that will motivate the immature to take action. Later in the teachings, both historically and personally, that emphasis on fear changes towards love, because for the spiritually mature love then becomes the effective operating principal. Ultimately at the end of the Path fear completely disappears and all that is left is love. (Or so I've heard.)

A human being has his limits. And thus, in every conceivable way, with every possible means, he tries to make the teaching enter into his own limits. ChNN