The Qur’an is like a comic book version of the bible. Anyone who has actually read it and understood the words and isn’t dumbfounded by it’s absurdity simply doesn’t have the mental capacity to do so.

The reverse claim can not be made as that would mean that god made atheists see his word as absurd. This is hard to reconcile with an all loving god and leads to the “your all liars” argument.

I’m sorry, can you restate more clearly what you are saying above. I don’t have the time to give it more thought.

The Qur’an is bullshit and those can’t see that are mentally challenged.

Then why make your ignorance so convoluted in the original statement? Were you trying to come accross as intelligent or something? Idiot.

Says the guy who thinks the Qur’an is the word of a sky god. LOL! I am about 1/3 of the way through the Qur’an and it is so obvious that it is man made bullshit that it is beyond comprehension that anyone who has actually read it can believe it!

And if you had actually read any of it you would know that your argument that atheist really know it is the word of god but just pretend they don’t is bullshit, because just in the first 1/3 of the book it has said about a dozen times already that those who don’t believe can’t because god has sealed their hearts and minds. How convenient for the writers of the Qur’an and how fucked up of it’s god. But then asshats like you justify that with, god created us and can kill and torture and send us to hell if it pleases him, and that is not evil, we are, so it is justified. Pure S&M;fantasy, whip me, beat me, teach me to be good enough to please your every desire…..

Tip, don’t put intelligence and belief in the Qur’an in the sentence, it just shows you for the fool you are.

f you concluded from my statement that human justice is more superior to Gods, you obviously have some serious misunderstandings about basic theology.

God is the one who legislates morality. He has made torture illegal for people to inflict on each other, and rightfully so, for humans can never mete out complete and proper justice, and so should not have the authority to do so. God, on the other hand, can and will torture people as He has indicated, in accordance with His divine justice and authority, which is absolute.

Now, personally speaking, like I may have said before already, I don’t see a problem with inflicting severe punishment on people for the severe things that they do. An eye for an eye, but as the Chrisian and Islamic tradition encourage, blood money, or forgiveness is better.

I’m starting to worry about you now Jack.

First of all you are arguing from a position which you know I don’t accept, as if I did accept it. That’s irrational.

Secondly, what you have said is an argument that was used by the Spanish Inquisition. God tortures those whom he hates. Therefore a God-inspired human being can torture those whom he hates. That’s the mentality of al-Qaeda: using unproveable and distasteful beliefs to justify horrible and offensive acts.

Again there is this mad equation of the perfect creator of the universe being all-loving and all-merciful and at the same time a hater and a torturer.

There is much to say on this subject, and it’s all been said before by Sam Harris and on this forum many times over. Basically a God who justifies his own capacity to hate and torture is a psychopath, and anyone who believes in such a God is prone to similar psychopathy.

If a believer in such a God overrides that tendency in himself it is not because of his religion, which justifies it, it is because of his own innate moral sense. Over time, natural human morality has proved superior to that contained in religion, as the reforming of Christianity and Judaism show. (Alarmingly, the rise of fundamentalism in the USA is beginning to reverse that trend, but that’s only possible because of the abandonment of modern moral values in favour of a bronze-age world-view which regards the earth as 6000 years old, flat, and the centre of the universe.)

Islam belongs to a bygone dark age and espousing its belief system can only take you back into that dark age. It cannot take you forward into a world of intelligence and compassion because it stems from an unintelligent and cruel set of premises which, as long as you truly believe them, can only result in unintelligent and cruel behaviour.

You and I have had several arguments on this forum. If you honestly think you have won any of those, then I would say peace and leave you be.

It is impossible for you to concede to any rational argument because your intellect is compromised. So you have not noticed that your absurd delusional illogic has been repeatedly trampled upon, torn apart, and otherwise destroyed by myself and others. All you are able to do repeatedly deflect, attack, admonish via the Q’ran, or, your favorite, pretend to have the supernatural ability to discern others’ ‘heart of hearts’.

But if you feel in your heart of hearts that your arguments have been incoherent, yet you persist in making them anyway, than you know what it is to be a kafir, one who covers up the truth. You either speak the truth or make up excuses about it, pretending it doesn’t exist. I already told you, there is (MANY NAMES, BUT) ONLY ONE GOD, and this is the belief of MOST MAJOR RELIGIONS, NOT CULTS.

See what I mean?

As to arrogance, I don’t feel I am better than you or anyone else, as God knows best the status of His servants, and only God knows what will be your state or my state at the time of death. I am only delivering a message, and the shortcommings in conveying it are mine alone. How my delivering of a message implies that I think I am better than you is a mystery to me. On the other hand, your ridiculing of my message is indeed an arrogant thing.

I heartily ridicule messages from all religions whose zombies carry the ‘word’ from ancient tomes of bloody fairy tales. Why should you be any different? There are no shortcomings in your conveying of it; you’re doing a splendid job! Your message, though, plus a shiny coin, will buy you a brightly colored gumball [thanks Salty].

Once again, go back and review the posts. If you HONESTLY feel that I have been insincere and/or incoherent in my logic in any of the posts, then all the best to you. If not, then are you a kaffir? Or, will you accept the truth of what I have been saying?

It’s not that you’ve been insincere – goodness, no. But the soil from which your sincerity grows has been poisoned. Like all good believers, your sincerity has nothing to do with reality. Calling me a kaffir manifests this perfectly. All you have left, every time, is your baseless accusation that others ‘know’ in their ‘heart of hearts’ the truth of your god, followed by a comically ominous invitation to ‘accept the truth.’ I can almost hear the tremolo diminished seventh chord, accompanied by claps of thunder, in the background.

And lest you say that you have no reason to be Muslim as opposed to Christian or Hindu, etc., I would say again, all of these groups of people believe in God, they only differ in practice.

And they are all equally deficient in logic and absurd in belief. I might say, though, that Islam is the bloodiest, but that may change with Palin in office.

The only thing left is to find the truest practice of religion,

Funny, I don’t need that option. It’s a popular one, though, isn’t it?

and that will narrow your choices down

It will narrow down my ability to reason, as I’ve witnessed its effects. Thanks just the same, though.

to the monothestic way, namely Islam.

Given the above, this is a non-issue.

Feel free to refer back to the debate I had with Bruce if you want to look at the issue more closely.

You obviously haven’t read that debate in its original language, or else you’d understand how you’re misinterpreting it. It’s original language is idiot-speak.

Take care.

For me, taking care involves embracing reality. In that sense, back at ya!

First of all you are arguing from a position which you know I don’t accept, as if I did accept it. That’s irrational.

It seems to me that this can’t be repeated often enough, obvious though it may be to some. Believers of all stripes speak and behave as if they’ve already done the work to convince of their particular deity. Then come the scriptural passages that admonish those who don’t believe. They just cannot cope with the fact that in order to continue, they must first actually convince using sound logic. That, of course, is impossible.

“The hands that help are better far than the lips that pray.”
— Robert G. Ingersoll