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Conversation with JO (with audio)

Hey guys, been a while since i've checked in but I wanted to share a little info...

I sat down with Jermaine for about 15 minutes following the Clippers loss and we talked about where the heart of this problem is coming from. The issue Jermaine has right now is he hates the offense. Ok maybe hate is a strong word but it's broken. He feels teams have figured it out... That the coaches will call out a play and the opposing bench will call out exactly what is coming. Teams have been sending double teams as soon as Jermaine touches the ball in the post. It used to be they would wait until he started to make his move, and now they won't even let him do that. They are daring us to shoot and no one is hitting their shots. He said he has been trying to step out of the post and shoot but if he misses, we have no rebounders so our possessions are typically one-and-done.

It seems to me that our leader does not believe in our offense right now, which I think is saying something considering the offense is supposed to be built for him.

Also of note, I spoke with Donnie after the Clippers game and he said he's never been one to put a lot of stock in a single game but he was clearly concerned with the current slide. After the game he said it was one of those games where it makes you look at your coaches and players and everyone involved and ask "what the (bleep) is going on?"

He also said the team is already gearing up for the draft and my impression was that they are going to trade for a first round pick.

Re: Conversation with JO

If all of this is true, then Jermaine O'Neal may be the worst human being alive.

Alright, Artest is still worse. But how in the name of God could he possibly be upset with the offense. We play this way to keep him happy, and the reason we have no rebounders is because of the way we play.

JO down in the post, everyone bolted to the floor behind the 3pt line.

Re: Conversation with JO

I knew someone would say that about JO.

But the strange thing is the Pacers get more offensive rebounds per game than any team in the NBA - of course part of that is because they shoot so poorly. I think percentage wise the Pacers are 4th in the league in offensive rebounds. This is in sharp contrast to Rick's 5 previous years as head coach when his teams were always poor offensive rebounding teams. Of course there is a flip side to this. That might explain why the Pacers transition defense is putrid IMO

Re: Conversation with JO

DD, sorry but without a verbatim, this is exactly what he said in the post press conf. Opponents have figured it all out, every play called is answered before it is ran, something I said 2 weeks ago when it became very clear.

As your father noted in another thread, RC calls every play even after a rebound given half the chance, add to that the outside players not being able to hit the broadside of a barn from 3 feet and you have the outcome you are looking at.

Once more: I am sure JO would never say that (hating the offense), but he said something of that nature (without "hating" the offense, but that it has been figured out completely) in the post game press conference.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Conversation with JO

able, every team knows every opponents play calls, they know what play they are going to run. There are no secrets. The key question is whether the other teams can stop the plays. And with the new defensive rules, dribble penetration is so important and stopping dribble penetration is even more important. Rick has one of the thickest playbooks in the NBA.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.

Re: Conversation with JO

able, every team knows every opponents play calls, they know what play they are going to run. There are no secrets. The key question is whether the other teams can stop the plays. And with the new defensive rules, dribble penetration is so important and stopping dribble penetration is even more important. Rick has one of the thickest playbooks in the NBA.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.

UB, how come we don't see it with the Mavs, or Suns Or Pistons?

How come those PG's go out with a choice/read/react hand?

I see no other coach in the NBA calling out every play all the time, except Rick.

That stands aside the fact that it is clear that the bad-shooting brings it all to a halt, JO can kick the ball out as much as he wants, if it only ends in missed shots, it's still worthless.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Conversation with JO

But the strange thing is the Pacers get more offensive rebounds per game than any team in the NBA - of course part of that is because they shoot so poorly. I think percentage wise the Pacers are 4th in the league in offensive rebounds. This is in sharp contrast to Rick's 5 previous years as head coach when his teams were always poor offensive rebounding teams. Of course there is a flip side to this. That might explain why the Pacers transition defense is putrid IMO

Well then conversly that must mean JO doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the rebounding.

I see no other coach in the NBA calling out every play all the time, except Rick.

That stands aside the fact that it is clear that the bad-shooting brings it all to a halt, JO can kick the ball out as much as he wants, if it only ends in missed shots, it's still worthless.

Well I'm with you here Able. Carlisle does call too many plays in my opinion. And I know there are subtle differences, but most involve an isolation play by someone.

UB, this is bad only because I believe Rick has no ability to measure momentum. If were start rolling, we don't need to slow it down, get the play, and then execute.

Tinsley knows the plays, let him make the decision in transition and we can attack that much faster.

That being said, maybe he just can't trust Tinsley. The Suns and Pistons have great point guards, and everyone on Dallas can score. Good teams don't need a lot of in-game coaching. Just like the Pacers of between 98-00.

I see no other coach in the NBA calling out every play all the time, except Rick.

That stands aside the fact that it is clear that the bad-shooting brings it all to a halt, JO can kick the ball out as much as he wants, if it only ends in missed shots, it's still worthless.

No we don't see it with the Suns at all, the Pistons not very often and the Mavs not very often.

But we do with the Heat, the Rockets, the Jazz (Sloan always called the plays even during Stockton's time as the point guard) The Spurs not nearly as much as we used to, but Pop still calls his fair share.

Until I see Rick stopping fastbreaks to get his play call in, I have no problem with him calling the plays. I don't trust Tinsley anyway.

Rick doesn't call every play - simply isn't true

I do have a question though: so many people say that Rick calls too many plays and it is bad that he does. I feel it is one of those things where it has been said enough, almost everyone believes it it is bad. Please someone explain to me why it is bad.

Re: Conversation with JO

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.

Not true and you know it. It is well documented that the Rick calls more plays than ANY OTHER COACH.

Re: Conversation with JO

able, every team knows every opponents play calls, they know what play they are going to run. There are no secrets. The key question is whether the other teams can stop the plays. And with the new defensive rules, dribble penetration is so important and stopping dribble penetration is even more important. Rick has one of the thickest playbooks in the NBA.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.

Of course you like Rick calling all the plays. What dont you like about Rick?

Re: Conversation with JO

I do have a question though: so many people say that Rick calls too many plays and it is bad that he does. I feel it is one of those things where it has been said enough, almost everyone believes it it is bad. Please someone explain to me why it is bad.

Except for the occasional "fast break" in which some players hesitate looking at the bench to see if it is "ok" to "run", Rick DOES call every play (see Peck's post).

Now, why is it bad?
Imagine you are a mechanic, workin on whatever every day, paid because you are good at it or at least supposed to be adequate.
Now imagine that the mechanic is bend over an engine and has to wait for his boss to call out what tool to use, what part to do when etc.

Do you really think the engine gets fixed better? faster?

Do you think the mechanic will love his job? have faith in his own abilities?
Do you think his collegues trust him with a job?

That's why it is VERY bad, not just BAD.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Conversation with JO

He feels teams have figured it out... That the coaches will call out a play and the opposing bench will call out exactly what is coming. Teams have been sending double teams as soon as Jermaine touches the ball in the post.

What a golden opportunity to make defenses pay with a little bit of smart basketball and good passing.

Unfortunately, JO has demonstrated that he is incapable of smart basketball OR good passing. Don't you think that teams with a smart, good-passing post player would LOVE to be defended like that? Of course they would, and they would eat the defense alive.

Put it this way, if YOU were defending the Pacers, wouldn't you do the EXACT same thing? Of course you would, because it has become obvious since JO has played for the Pacers that this is what works.

What the Pacers need, and what they MISS, are players that will make defenses pay for the double-team. Brad Miller did that. Ron Artest did that. Those guys are gone, and the team's performance has gone downhill. (I'm not suggesting Artest should still be a Pacer, just pointing out that they don't have players to exploit the double-team with).

Stats don't make a player great. Smart play, the ability to make teammates better, and ability to help your team win games make a player great. JO is NOT a great player. And THAT is the problem. They've built their team around a mediocre player.

Re: Conversation with JO

What a golden opportunity to make defenses pay with a little bit of smart basketball and good passing.

Unfortunately, JO has demonstrated that he is incapable of smart basketball OR good passing. Don't you think that teams with a smart, good-passing post player would LOVE to be defended like that? Of course they would, and they would eat the defense alive.

I have a big problem with laying this all on Jermaine.

I've seen him make passes out of being double and triple teamed as recently as against the Suns at home last week. The perimeter players bricked the shots or went right back into traffic or passed it right back to him.

When your only effective scoring option is to take it to the basket, and your shooting from outside is abyssmal, your opponents defenses have a very easy job - swarm the post player and give away everything outside until proven otherwise.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: Conversation with JO

What a golden opportunity to make defenses pay with a little bit of smart basketball and good passing.

Unfortunately, JO has demonstrated that he is incapable of smart basketball OR good passing. Don't you think that teams with a smart, good-passing post player would LOVE to be defended like that? Of course they would, and they would eat the defense alive.

Put it this way, if YOU were defending the Pacers, wouldn't you do the EXACT same thing? Of course you would, because it has become obvious since JO has played for the Pacers that this is what works.

What the Pacers need, and what they MISS, are players that will make defenses pay for the double-team. Brad Miller did that. Ron Artest did that. Those guys are gone, and the team's performance has gone downhill. (I'm not suggesting Artest should still be a Pacer, just pointing out that they don't have players to exploit the double-team with).

Stats don't make a player great. Smart play, the ability to make teammates better, and ability to help your team win games make a player great. JO is NOT a great player. And THAT is the problem. They've built their team around a mediocre player.

Agreed, the problem is JO gets the ball and most of the time everyone else just stands around watching. Where is the off the ball movement? We see it sometimes but not enough IMO. We ran a backdoor play once last game and Murphy got a layup...

p.s. just want to clarify JO didn't use the word hate when describing the offense and he was hesitent to tell reporters that he felt a change was even necessary. But you could tell how frustrated with it he is.

Re: Conversation with JO

Here's a wild thought... Has anybody noticed that nearly everytime JO passes the ball out, it just gets passed right back into him? Have you noticed that no one moves around the perimeter while he has the ball? How much good is it going to do for him to pass the ball if other players are just going to pass the ball right back or stand there and throw up a 3? Jermaine can't make other players move without the ball, he can't set screens while holding the ball, etc... Of course there are things he could do better, but if anyone seriously wants to try to blame everything on him then they need to step back and realize that basketball is a TEAM sport, and unless every player does his part and the coaches set them up in a system to win, it isn't going to work.

Re: Conversation with JO

I've said this before, but I'll say it again, I like Rick calling the plays (how in the world that became taboo, I'll never know or understand) most of the best coaches in the NBA call almost all the plays.

There is one problem that I have noticed about play calling as a player and a fan. When your coach is standing on the sidelines yelling plays almost every single time down the court, the players tend to think to much. You trying to recall plays out of huge notebooks and sometimes you don't remember them all. But the real problem is when the players think to much about the plays and don't pay attention. Another key part of calling plays is that if one person on your team does something wrong, the play is usually going to be messed up. All I'm trying to say is that coaches should try to be a little more relaxed on play calling and trust in their point guards to make something happen.

Re: Conversation with JO

There is one problem that I have noticed about play calling as a player and a fan. When your coach is standing on the sidelines yelling plays almost every single time down the court, the players tend to think to much. You trying to recall plays out of huge notebooks and sometimes you don't remember them all. But the real problem is when the players think to much about the plays and don't pay attention. Another key part of calling plays is that if one person on your team does something wrong, the play is usually going to be messed up. All I'm trying to say is that coaches should try to be a little more relaxed on play calling and trust in their point guards to make something happen.

Or as the commentators at the last Suns games said;
The Pacers do not get at least 3 to 4 easy layups a game because they are to busy llistening to their coach

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish.

If you've done 6 impossible things today?
Then why not have Breakfast at Milliways!

Re: Conversation with JO

I would wager that he saves just as many TOs, 3-4, in the same game they lose those layups.

I don't trust Tinsley to wash my car, let alone give him free reign to run a basketball team.

I asked earlier last week, and it was ignored, so I'll say it again. Why SHOULD Rick trust him to call the right plays? What evidence has he given that it would be a good idea? Just because you're their starter doesn't mean that should just be expected. He's the starter by default.

He makes horrible decisions PERIOD, on or off the court, and you want him to have more opportunity to make decisions he thinks is best for the team? That's just asking for "Bad Jamaal" to be out 90% of the time, instead of the 30% of the time, which is still way too much.