There is alot of drama queens in this forum right now. Most likely the same ones who agreed with the critics about the salary cap being the end of the Red Wings winning ways. This is as good a team as we have had in the last 15 years and somehow some of you are too blind to see it. Ken Holland is an outstanding GM, maybe even the very best in Hockey. Rather than trash the Wings on a Red Wing site, go be a Dallas or Duck fan and bash us from there. We expect stupid senseless talk from them anyway. Do all of us "true Wings fans" a favor and don't get back on the band wagon. See ya in the playoffs, uh, maybe not Colorado though.

Really? You're telling me this team stacks up with the 02 team? Or even the 97 team? Just because some one is fed up with what the team is doing does not make them any less of a fan. If that were true, there would not be any Lions fans in existence.

I remember the good old days when LGW was worth going to and not full of blind homers who freak out just because someone thinks that the Wings aren't perfect.

"Serious sport has nothing to do with fair play. It is bound up with hatred, jealousy, boastfulness, disregard of all rules and sadistic pleasure in witnessing violence. In other words: it is war minus the shooting." -- George Orwell

Im gonna grade this one a C+I am very excited so see Stuart here and am happy we got a physical defensemenUnfortuantly as much as I would liked a forward it just didnt happenHolland stated just now on TSN some things just did not work out so at least he did not go without tryingThough we could have just given Kopecky for FedorovI hate Kopecky.....

while Stuart is a solid acquisition, I believe a 2nd line scorer should have been the number 1 priority. With that in mind, Holland did not succeed. To me, grade = D

I agree and unless people wanted to give up Filpula, Kopecky, Smith (1st round pick from last year) plus a 1st round pick in this years draft... people should be happy that we didn't do something stupid like that. Hossa could end up pulling a Forsberg and the Pens would be in deep s.hit, Armstrong had great chemistry with Crosby plus the 1st round picks are very important now a days.

Sweet, you and leftwinger anyone else fed up, and want to leave, go now because the bandwagon isn't coming back around to pick up fair weather fans, good riddance!!!

So that we are all on the same page the following 2nd line scorers were moved today:

Fedorov and Lapointe, former Wings, that were being traded form the Central division, their is no way either of those two teams help the best team in their divisions get better.

Hossa, is not a 2nd line scorer. He is a first line scorer and him and a healthy Crosby will be unreal.

Edited by Opie, 26 February 2008 - 04:53 PM.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

I don't think Ken Holland is a bad GM. In fact, I think he's a very good one.

But let's be realistic. He has openly acknowledged this team has weaknesses on a number of occasions, dating all the way back to the Wings' last postseason exit. He stood pat over the summer because he thought it wise to wait until the deadline. Fair enough. He stood pat in the regular season because, even though it was painfully obvious that our youngsters weren't going to cut it, the emergence of Henrik Zetterberg bought him some time, allowing him to keep looking forward to the deadline, not the here and now. Fair enough.

Then deadline day comes. Surely after all of this waiting and hyping, and with all of this cap room, Holland would finally make good on his talk. Right?

Folks, the answer is a resounding "NO."

That, to me, is inexcusable. Holland had a fantastic opportunity to make some quality moves for dirt cheap today, but in the end, he only has Brad Stuart to show for it. All of that waiting, all of those "tough decisions" (e.g. letting Markov walk because of cap concerns) -- they all ultimately led up to...Brad Stuart? As much as I like Stuart, this whole saga gets a big "WTF" from me.

Now, I'm not one to advocate trading just for the sake of trading; if there are no genuinely palatable deals to be made, then you don't make any deals. But when you hear that a guy like Prospal was had for dirt cheap, and then you juxtapose that with all of Holland's talk about needing some more secondary scoring at "the right price" (whatever that is)...something's not adding up.

This roster has issues, guys -- and I'm not talking about its current injuries. Has it dominated thus far? Yes, but as history shows us, the regular season means little. More specifically, it's not an especially reliable indicator of postseason success. Just ask the Wings, who have developed a knack for fizzling out in the playoffs despite strong showings in the regular season. The way you, as a GM, put an end to such a trend is by taking a good hard look at the team's weaknesses and doing everything in your power to ensure that these weaknesses are either as small a factor as possible or eliminated altogether. I thought Holland did a great job in seeing to it that this team got grittier and more resilient last season. It's no coincidence that that was the Wings' deepest run in years.

But the problems don't stop there, which is troubling because it seems like Holland did stop there. Sure, the Wings are tougher, but that doesn't cover other issues like their lack of scoring depth and their lack of a big, physical, crease-clearing, top 4 guy on the blue line. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, a secondary scoring group consisting of Hudler, Flip, Sammy and Cleary will not cut it in the postseason. You think Hudler's having problems now? Just wait until he goes up against the likes of the Ducks in the playoffs. This secondary scoring group would be excusable only if the Wings were well-equipped to handle a long, taxing, one-goal series against a monster shutdown squad like the Ducks. But, seeing as how that would require an extremely solid, well-rounded blue line, which the Wings lack (undersized, too o-minded, not much snarl), the secondary scoring group remains unequivocally pathetic.

This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

Inexcusable, unacceptable. Goodbye.

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard

While more player movement obviously yields to more excitement, the trade deadline day for the Wings was neither a success or failure to me. Pretty much a flat C in terms of grade, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

We've seen that it can certainly happen, but do you realistically think that the Wings will continue to be without their top-4 defensemen out. We've seen two top defensemen out last playoffs, but the team right now has somewhat of a larger "minor league prescence."

This team, when healthy, was winning more often than not. This team after the trading deadline when they get most people back, is going to be pretty identical to the one that was winning more often than not before the beginning/middle of this month.

I don't see why that can't happen in the playoffs once everybody starts getting used to each other again and getting their timing back once healthy.

I don't think Ken Holland is a bad GM. In fact, I think he's a very good one.

But let's be realistic. He has openly acknowledged this team has weaknesses on a number of occasions, dating all the way back to the Wings' last postseason exit. He stood pat over the summer because he thought it wise to wait until the deadline. Fair enough. He stood pat in the regular season because, even though it was painfully obvious that our youngsters weren't going to cut it, the emergence of Henrik Zetterberg bought him some time, allowing him to keep looking forward to the deadline, not the here and now. Fair enough.

Then deadline day comes. Surely after all of this waiting and hyping, and with all of this cap room, Holland would finally make good on his talk. Right?

Folks, the answer is a resounding "NO."

That, to me, is inexcusable. Holland had a fantastic opportunity to make some quality moves for dirt cheap today, but in the end, he only has Brad Stuart to show for it. All of that waiting, all of those "tough decisions" (e.g. letting Markov walk because of cap concerns) -- they all ultimately led up to...Brad Stuart? As much as I like Stuart, this whole saga gets a big "WTF" from me.

Now, I'm not one to advocate trading just for the sake of trading; if there are no genuinely palatable deals to be made, then you don't make any deals. But when you hear that a guy like Prospal was had for dirt cheap, and then you juxtapose that with all of Holland's talk about needing some more secondary scoring at "the right price" (whatever that is)...something's not adding up.

This roster has issues, guys -- and I'm not talking about its current injuries. Has it dominated thus far? Yes, but as history shows us, the regular season means little. More specifically, it's not an especially reliable indicator of postseason success. Just ask the Wings, who have developed a knack for fizzling out in the playoffs despite strong showings in the regular season. The way you, as a GM, put an end to such a trend is by taking a good hard look at the team's weaknesses and doing everything in your power to ensure that these weaknesses are either as small a factor as possible or eliminated altogether. I thought Holland did a great job in seeing to it that this team got grittier and more resilient last season. It's no coincidence that that was the Wings' deepest run in years.

But the problems don't stop there, which is troubling because it seems like Holland did stop there. Sure, the Wings are tougher, but that doesn't cover other issues like their lack of scoring depth and their lack of a big, physical, crease-clearing, top 4 guy on the blue line. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, a secondary scoring group consisting of Hudler, Flip, Sammy and Cleary will not cut it in the postseason. You think Hudler's having problems now? Just wait until he goes up against the likes of the Ducks in the playoffs. This secondary scoring group would be excusable only if the Wings were well-equipped to handle a long, taxing, one-goal series against a monster shutdown squad like the Ducks. But, seeing as how that would require an extremely solid, well-rounded blue line, which the Wings lack (undersized, too o-minded, not much snarl), the secondary scoring group remains unequivocally pathetic.

This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

Inexcusable, unacceptable. Goodbye.

Sane and rational post. I like it.

I make 1 or 2 posts a week tops. Sometimes they're gold, sometimes they're crap, but the end weight is the same.

I don't think Ken Holland is a bad GM. In fact, I think he's a very good one.

But let's be realistic. He has openly acknowledged this team has weaknesses on a number of occasions, dating all the way back to the Wings' last postseason exit. He stood pat over the summer because he thought it wise to wait until the deadline. Fair enough. He stood pat in the regular season because, even though it was painfully obvious that our youngsters weren't going to cut it, the emergence of Henrik Zetterberg bought him some time, allowing him to keep looking forward to the deadline, not the here and now. Fair enough.

Then deadline day comes. Surely after all of this waiting and hyping, and with all of this cap room, Holland would finally make good on his talk. Right?

Folks, the answer is a resounding "NO."

That, to me, is inexcusable. Holland had a fantastic opportunity to make some quality moves for dirt cheap today, but in the end, he only has Brad Stuart to show for it. All of that waiting, all of those "tough decisions" (e.g. letting Markov walk because of cap concerns) -- they all ultimately led up to...Brad Stuart? As much as I like Stuart, this whole saga gets a big "WTF" from me.

Now, I'm not one to advocate trading just for the sake of trading; if there are no genuinely palatable deals to be made, then you don't make any deals. But when you hear that a guy like Prospal was had for dirt cheap, and then you juxtapose that with all of Holland's talk about needing some more secondary scoring at "the right price" (whatever that is)...something's not adding up.

This roster has issues, guys -- and I'm not talking about its current injuries. Has it dominated thus far? Yes, but as history shows us, the regular season means little. More specifically, it's not an especially reliable indicator of postseason success. Just ask the Wings, who have developed a knack for fizzling out in the playoffs despite strong showings in the regular season. The way you, as a GM, put an end to such a trend is by taking a good hard look at the team's weaknesses and doing everything in your power to ensure that these weaknesses are either as small a factor as possible or eliminated altogether. I thought Holland did a great job in seeing to it that this team got grittier and more resilient last season. It's no coincidence that that was the Wings' deepest run in years.

But the problems don't stop there, which is troubling because it seems like Holland did stop there. Sure, the Wings are tougher, but that doesn't cover other issues like their lack of scoring depth and their lack of a big, physical, crease-clearing, top 4 guy on the blue line. No matter how much anyone wants it to be true, a secondary scoring group consisting of Hudler, Flip, Sammy and Cleary will not cut it in the postseason. You think Hudler's having problems now? Just wait until he goes up against the likes of the Ducks in the playoffs. This secondary scoring group would be excusable only if the Wings were well-equipped to handle a long, taxing, one-goal series against a monster shutdown squad like the Ducks. But, seeing as how that would require an extremely solid, well-rounded blue line, which the Wings lack (undersized, too o-minded, not much snarl), the secondary scoring group remains unequivocally pathetic.

This will be my last post here. I simply can't stomach the kind of crap Holland pulled over on Motown this season.

I agree with pretty much everything he said. But anyone wanna place bets it's truly his last post here?

But honestly I didn't expect this trade deadline to fix it. Holland has done an okay job, but under his leadership the Wings have had a slow decline in size, toughness, and yes I'm going to say it, grit. It's why I'm glad to have Stuart. At least that gives a little something to the blueline.

Look at the Wings 97 and 98 roster. Think about how many of those guys were big and could play tough and could play the game. I'd love to have a lineup like that again.

Replacing those type of players is a much bigger process than any deadline moves can fix.

I agree with pretty much everything he said. But anyone wanna place bets it's truly his last post here?

But honestly I didn't expect this trade deadline to fix it. Holland has done an okay job, but under his leadership the Wings have had a slow decline in size, toughness, and yes I'm going to say it, grit. It's why I'm glad to have Stuart. At least that gives a little something to the blueline.

Look at the Wings 97 and 98 roster. Think about how many of those guys were big and could play tough and could play the game. I'd love to have a lineup like that again.

Replacing those type of players is a much bigger process than any deadline moves can fix.

The Wings' major needs were a defensively capable, gritty defenseman and someone to take Sammy's place on the power play. With Stuart, they fill both holes.

Ideally, Stuart resigns for 2-3 years, somewhere around his current salary. His skill set first the Wings very, very well and I have been interested in picking him up since he was a Shark.

The only team of contenders that is deeper as far as scoring forwards go is Ottawa. And even that is a very slight difference.

Anaheim is the only team with a defense that can come close to matching Detroit's, and there is no contending team with significantly better goaltending than Detroit.

A top four, two-way defenseman with grit and puck skills was the only real 'need' Detroit had. Stuart fills that hole perfectly. I wanted to see Hossa...but not at the price Pittsburgh paid. If you consider that Armstrong for Dupuis would have been a fair straight swap, then Pittsburgh gave up Christensen, Esposito, and a first pick. That would compare to Detroit giving up Filppula, Kindl, and a first for just Hossa. To that I say a big HELL NO. I was willing to give up ONE of those things, not all three.Brad Richards? It would have been him and Holmqvist for Filppula, Howard, and Draper. No thanks.Sergei Fedorov? He could probably have been had for Derek Meech if you go based simply on value. But that would have been an intra-divisional trade...so it wasn't happening for less than a guy like Hudler or Ericsson. Not worth it.Ruutu or Ladd would have cost Filppula or Hudler. No thanks.Brandon Bochenski? Traded by Anaheim to Nashville for future considerations. No chance of Bochenski in Detroit.Prospal? Picard and a conditional pick, equates roughly to Ericsson and a pick. No way in hell.So that's all the secondary scoring that moved at the deadline. None of it was worth what the Wings would have had to give up, and only Hossa and Richards would have been an upgrade over what's currently on the second line.

So saying that Holland failed because he didn't pick up a second liner is false. He didn't overpay for a second liner because it was a want, not a need. He got Stuart at a bargain by not having to give up a roster player or top prospect but still acquiring the best fit available for our most glaring need.

So, a grade? A-. It would only have been an A or A+ had he managed something like Samuelsson for Prospal, Lebda for Satan, or some other trade for secondary scoring that would have been an upgrade without giving up any important players or skilled youngsters.

"I've never seen a warlock do that without his magic.""I once devoured a monk's soul. It tasted like chocolate."