500 words a day on whatever I want

The Broken Africa stereotype

The Broken Africa stereotype is one of the main ways Americans picture Africa: a violent hellhole, savage and cruel, a place of war, genocide, famine, slums, disease, failed states, refugee camps, etc. Aids, malaria and Ebola. Idi Amin, Mugabe and now Kony. Rwanda and Darfur. Somali pirates. Corrupt government officials. Child soldiers. Black men raping virgins to spread Aids. The heroes of this piece? White saviours, like Bono and Miss Jolie.

White people to the rescue!

Africa was, is and always shall be backward. Anything good in Africa comes from outside. Africans can never do anything right – and never will. James Watson, co-discoverer of DNA who should know a thing or two about genes, said he was:

inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really.

I used to think this picture was a side effect of the Western press, which makes a living off of bad news, andWestern NGOs, which make a living off of helping the helpless – making Africa the Country into a land of bad news and helpless people. Not so: the stereotype goes way back, to the 1700s, to the days of the slave trade.

War, famine, disease and evil men are found throughout the world and throughout history, not just in Africa. So why does the image of a Broken Africa stick?

The Rule of How Mud Sticks:

When blacks do something bad or whites do something good, it is largely due to inborn qualities – like “black” crime and “white” inventions.

When blacks do something good or whites do something bad, it is an exception or largely due to circumstances – like black inventions and white crime.

This creates an imbalanced, racist picture of Africa:

Mugabe? Proof that blacks are unfit for rule. Hitler? A madman.

The Rwandan genocide kills 800,00 Tutsis? Proof of how violent Africans are. The German genocide kills 6 million Jews? That was an exception. The Germans killed 100,00 Hereros in Namibia? Another exception.

Middle-class Nairobi or Luanda? Exceptions. The slums of Nairobi and Luanda? Proof of how screwed up Africa is.

Like most stereotypes it is two parts self-serving lie and one part projection:

Projection: It was the West that broke Africa. It was the West that was savage. It was the West that could not run things properly. Before whites showed up Timbuktu had more people than London and its schools were better known at the time than Oxford and Cambridge. After whites appeared over 17 million died in the slave trade and the slave wars.

Self-serving lie: The stereotype did not arise till the 1700s to excuse the slave trade – and later grew in strength during the white rule of colonialism. That Africa is poorer than Europe and North America has nothing to do with whites robbing it of human labour and mineral wealth. No, Africa is broken by nature.

White people to the rescue!

Picture credits:

The first picture was taken by photojournalist Kate Holt, who works for the British media and NGOs. If you click on the picture it leads to her blog where you can find out more about the picture and about her.

The first two pictures are from Dadaab, a vast refugee camp in Kenya where hundreds of thousands have fled famine and war in Somalia.

The third picture is from a coffee house in an upmarket Nairobi mall – also in Kenya. It is by Noor Khamis for Reuters and appeared in the South African press.

387 Responses

Portraying the affluent class of Africa side-by-side doesn’t negate the fact that the sorry picture of Africa exists. It only serves to show the extreme inequality that exists in the region.

The poverty in Africa is shown with a purpose, and not a humanitarian one. It is used to show that Africans are inherently screwed up, they can’t govern themselves and hence they need American and European [conditional] aid, foreign soldiers on their ground, foreign control on their resources. To back this theory up they show the ‘benevolent whitey’ side by side.

In my country, India, I’ve seen many holding up the 58 dollar billionaires of India when they want to portray their country as a ‘good’ place. Nationalism obscures one to reality and makes them resort to absurdity when someone points out something that’s wrong in their country. Obviously, 58 dollar billionaires are a shame in a country whose 80% live under Rs.20 ($1=about Rs 50) per day.
But there’s one thing that must be mentioned about those who point out that something is wrong in a country – usually they are the ones trying to establish their superiority over another. You will see how the tone changes when you bring up IMF, World Bank, their conditional loans and aids, wars, sanctions etc imposed by the UN, US & Co because those point towards all the evils that their countries are doing, and they know they’re beneficiaries of it.

I have only one thing to say to those in the first world who point towards the poverty in third world countries – protest against your govt policies, stand up against the wars that your countries wage against others(Libya used to be one with a good HDI before Obama & Co. bombed it to the ground, and yes, sponsored the killing of blacks in Libya by the rebels). If you don’t, then stop whining and shove your charity up your backside. Don’t use poor people as an excuse to feel good without doing anything good.

You know what I find repugnant? You see the media showing the likes of Bono and Angelina Jolie shaking hands with some of the populace, “Oh, look. We are trying to make a difference in Africa.” They don’t deserve recognition. Other people have been doing it for years. Did they smile for the camera and get a pat on the back for helping those in need?

I understand that this blog points out what was/is wrong with the evil behavior of Europe/whites and how they mangled and continue to mangle Africa/black, but, what is ‘wrong’ with Africa that this was possible. I was listening to a Youtube vid, and this professor , Dr Amos Wilson, spoke on how Europe attempted this horror on China, was initially successful, but the Chinese were able to repel them. ‘Other’ groups keep coming for us, why is that? There is this parable, “when you act like sheep, people will act like wolves”.

Very interesting article on the “Arab Trader Argument.” It would be futile trying to compare or judge which was worse. My feeling is that the European slave trade is still highly remembered due to the ever-lasting presence of NGOs in Africa, particularly when they are fueled by projections and self-serving lies.

On the other hand there aren’t any current issues that allow bringing up the Arab slave trade.

@angelsanddimension
Hello from your fellow countryman :). I dont know if you are in the US or in India, but I guess you got the picture, the Imperial narrative of the colonized has always been designed to shame the colonized into thinking the other (colonizer) is great while making the colonizer feel superior to the colonized.

Gandhi called this phenomena: Drain inspection. The chief artist of this deception against India was an American white woman (who was also a racist, anti-immigrant conservative who would fit right in with the loonatic racists of the tea party of today).

It’s funny, because the time I spent in both Edo State and Lekki Nigeria was simply fantastic. There are many spots that are incredibly modern and over looked, while there were many spots that were poor and over exposed. The people though, were more aware of their situation then the (whites) West give them credit for.

@lokey
Hi!(Punjab? Am from Kolkata) Among the many issues with Gandhi’s observations is that he failed to grasp the cause-and-effect relations and thus reached a wrong conclusion. While I do agree that colonizers and neo-colonizers everywhere try to paint the colonized people as horrid, irrational people unable to govern themselves and I do caution myself and others against accepting accounts by colonizers without solid evidence as they’re most likely liars, I do not agree with the approach taken by Abagond here, or nationalists at home to counter such ‘drain inspections’.

Drains need to be inspected. Not by degenerates like Katherine Mayo who use the drains in order to turn the whole country into a stinky swamp, but by people who would clean the drains up. Katherine Mayo and her likes in the US want to rob people of their sovereignty and exploit them all the while justifying the exploitation with the theory that we’re not fit to govern ourselves.

Yes, India is an extremely poor country. The denial of this fact is denying the truth and supporting the ‘feel good’ feeling propagated by the media in order to keep the countrypeople from a revolution. It is like someone from the slavery era saying that there are slaves who have better masters who don’t beat them up and feed them well and even let them read books. At home CNN does not mention poverty once on TV, in abroad the same CNN is gushing about poverty in third world countries. It’s against the ruling class interest to let the relatively better-off people here who can access TV know how hard the overwhelming majority of the country suffer. In abroad, the ruling class use the ‘drains’ to garner support for all the atrocities they commit in the name of help.

So yes, India is a poor country and I’m an Indian by accident of birth and internationalist by principle living in India. That does not make me or anyone in India superior or inferior to anyone and does not make us deserving of subordination or inherently screwed up. Want proof of how India or Africa came to be so poor? Look at the global powers, the corporations, the international organizations like the UN, IMF, World Bank. Learn some history and you’ll find that we’re not inherently screwed up. Rather, the ones who are trying to portray us as such are. As one commenter commented on this blog yesterday, “there’s no shame being a slave. Only a slaveholder.”

P.S. Gandhi was, without a shred of doubt, a servant of the colonizers. Gandhi opposed the struggle of the Zulus and defended the massacre of the Zulus by the British in South Africa, was racist to the core which is evidenced by his many remarks on the inferiority of the black race, opposed freedom struggles by labourers and peasants in India, openly said that he supported landlordship and opposed any kind of attempts to take away the wealth they held, worked as a recruit agent for the British army and declared that the British rule was a godsend for India. His ‘non-violence’ was only for the Indians struggling for their freedom because he knew if the struggle turned violent, the British would have to flee and the power would be seized by the people instead of the Congress party (created by the British) which existed to serve the interest of the Indian bourgeoisie. Obviously, given the nature of Gandhiism, it would naturally be the philosophy that the ruling class would want the oppressed class to believe in. Oppress without any fear of a backlash – the dream of the oppressor!

I’ll concede the point about Mrs. Jolie / Pitt, however, when It comes to Bono I am going to disagree.

He doesn’t just use his celebrity and own money to help others in need in Africa…He does it throughout the world. Not only In America, but his own country of Ireland.

I saw him when I worked at the pentagon after 9/11 (I was there on the smoke cleanup crew.) He was also with Chris Tucker, by the way they looked to be having a ball together laughing and clowning each other. I didn’t get to meet Bono, but later on Tucker was walking around near the Hall of Heroes, which I happened to be cleaning and I met him. He was very nice and he wanted to see the devastation and he told me he offered officials there anything he could do for help to raise awareness by the use of his celebrity. Now why isn’t Chris Tucker and other blacks being yelled at. Why do you guys hate Bono so much. I think he is a nice man.

What about Sean Penn and the work he does in Haiti. Penn also partnered with Spike Lee on that movie he did to benefit with Hurricane Katrina victims.

I just had to deal with a fool on Colorlines.com who gave me his Western view of Africa as a helpless, corrupt place incapable of of self-governance and self-reliance. He objected to how the Kony 2012 issue is a “white savior” infomercial and the possibility that America’s main interests when it comes to any African nation is to make money from its resources.

Africa was turned into a monopoly board by europeans, this fact is omitted from so-called journalism here in the US and abroad. Leaving out this info presents a false narrative to consumers of media, because all consumers of media don’t have the same level of understanding about the issue. If folk haven’t studied the history of what took place via the transatlantic slave trade, they would view africa as continually dysfunctional. It’s not what we see and hear in media, it’s what we don’t see and hear in media that keeps us in the fog. Whites portray native africans as out of control, knowing damn’ well that their race is the source of the problem. This allows them to play the role of “Savior” that we have all come to despise. Brad Pitt, Angelina, Bono, and other bleeding hearts will never be honest about who created the chaos that we see in some african countries, Never!

Other’ groups keep coming for us, why is that? There is this parable, “when you act like sheep, people will act like wolves”.

I do sometimes feel blacks “welcome” the victim-hood portrayals. I often find it aggravating the way blacks welcome cameras to film them. Those videos of Africans dancing and singing for white audiences annoy me. So do those “news” pieces with black women crying about how “single” /unmarried they are. Why allow mainstream media to victimize you?

inherently gloomy about the prospect of Africa [because] all our social policies are based on the fact that their intelligence is the same as ours – whereas all the testing says not really.
What many black people don’t get or understand is that many non-blacks, particularly whites, believe, as a natural rule, that blacks are genetically or intellectually inferior to whites and other groups.

From this “blacks are naturally inferior” belief, they build all their opinions, laws, attitudes, etc about blacks.

I volunteered at a local high school in 2010, and was allowed to sit in on the staff meeting, where the officials discussed “dumbing down of the curriculum.” The school is mostly black and South Asian, and when I asked why they were dumbing down the curriculum (which made it difficult for the kids attending the school to get into universities), the answer was that the kids can’t handle the tougher curriculum, so the solution, naturally, is to dumb it down.

Now, if I were a parent with a kid at that school, I’d be offended that they’re doing this, because I understand why they chose this as a solution…they believe the black and South Asian kids are too dumb.

“Now, if I were a parent with a kid at that school, I’d be offended that they’re doing this, because I understand why they chose this as a solution…they believe the black and South Asian kids are too dumb.”

**********************************

So Mel, just to be clear, are you’re saying here that you were okay with the dumbing down process (not offended) because you’re not a parent with a child attending that school?

If your belief is that flimsy and is swayed that easily then it probably wasn’t genuine in the first place. But that’s me posting as if I has no idea that you were just some dishonest white who’s trying to paint himself as an open-minded person who is now deeply offended because of some cruel boogeymen that he was fighting for.

the answer was that the kids can’t handle the tougher curriculum, so the solution, naturally, is to dumb it down..

Finally, a sensible school district. Usually, the teachers, administration, community, or white people are blamed, usually in a game of musical chairs which of this takes it’s turn in being blamed. Finally, they have awoke – maybe its the kids.

58 dollar billionaires are a shame in a country whose 80% live under Rs.20. You know nothing of the generation of wealth in an economy. The presence of biliionaires, indicates a growing economy. From India’s lower economic base, much money is made by entrepreneurs who create business and start to produce goods for the people. The entrepreneurs can make a lot of money in these intial stages.

those who point out that something is wrong in a country – usually they are the ones trying to establish their superiority …..Don’t use poor people as an excuse to feel good without doing anything good. Not always. There are many honest charitable organizations, nost of them white. Your racist attitude toward them may explain your poor opinion of them. Would you rather we not send the money? Because if that is your attitude, maybe we should not.

Bono and Angelina Jolie shaking hands with some of the populace,… They don’t deserve recognition. The use of celebrities to bring awareness, action, and money has been used very successfully for a wide range of causes. People would normally not listen to simple pleas for help unless there is something that catches their attention – celebrities, pictures of children, or highly polished videos.

So perhaps you should put aside your disdain for white people and think about how the disadvantaged are helped by the celebrities’ efforts. It’s irrelevant whether Jolie and Bono are getting more than their share of publicity.

It’s disgusting to me how many commenters disdain white people so much that they would criticize their efforts to help.

You know nothing of the generation of wealth in an economy. The presence of biliionaires, indicates a growing economy. From India’s lower economic base, much money is made by entrepreneurs who create business and start to produce goods for the people. The entrepreneurs can make a lot of money in these intial stages.

And your profound knowledge of economics astounds me. For twenty years since neoliberal policies have been adopted India has been experiencing what economists call ‘jobless growth’. Unless ‘growing economy’ means increased economic inequality, I don’t see how we can call the economy of a country which has the highest unemployment rate in 20 years growing. Goods for people? The purchasing power of the common Indian is mentioned in my previous post. Social welfare indicators are indicating the worst in 20 years. Some amount of industrialization is happening all right, but at the cost of farmers and tribals who are displaced from their lands creating several times more jobless and homeless people than the factories can hire. Again there are the huge number of factories that shut down and small businesses are getting wiped out.

Trickle-down economy has failed. It is clear as daylight and anyone with a slightest bit of brain can see why. So we’d better stop being happy about pumping money into the tummy of the super-rich.

Not always. There are many honest charitable organizations, nost of them white. Your racist attitude toward them may explain your poor opinion of them. Would you rather we not send the money? Because if that is your attitude, maybe we should not.

There may be “honest” charitable organizations, but charity is merely a way to keep people from an uprising. Charity does not solve poverty, it keeps a very tiny percentage of people in poverty barely alive. An investigation into the cause of poverty reveals what policies are responsible for it and who wanted to implement those with what intentions. This part gets really uncomfortable for people like you who think you’re doing us a favour by tossing $5 a week at us. That is why people like you will boast of charity but start opposing anyone who will stand up against the cuts in welfare, the liberalization-privatisation-globalization drive. If those organizations really wished to solve the issue of poverty, they would have hit at the core reason of poverty, the international policies, organizations like WB and IMF, imperialist wars, sanctions imposed on countries (US is threatening to impose sanctions on India if the latter doesn’t stop buying oil from Iran) etc. and finally capitalism itself.

So save your favors. Do away with the charity industry by all means. Hardly makes a difference to the poor population, but at least it will stop the people who want to boast to people ‘you know, I donated to the poor kids in Africa, oh how poor they are’ without any significant loss to their lifestyle and all the while supporting the system that keeps their privileges intact and makes the poor people poorer.

Thanks for this post! Especially in the wake of that Kony mess and now George Clooney!

@Destructure honestly, I really do wish all of you would leave us alone. Thanks. Your “help” is more about how good you want to feel than about us really. Am not trying to be your feel good moment. I don’t think many Africans like it.

I agree with Mel. A lot of white people do truly believe that black people are inferior. I will not believe otherwise. A couple of things they have said:

1. Oh look at Rwanda, these primitive savages killing each other over some ancient tribal feuds. Never mind that people were fighting over systemic inequality introduced by the Belgians.

2. On critics of Kony 2012: “Well at least we care about your hellhole!” “at least WE are doing something unlike YOU Africans” “Africa is just stuck in the stone age, we should leave those uncivilized people to kill each other”

3. Saw a story on dead elephants on CNN, the white people almost dying over a dead elephant in fact some were saying that they should be moved out of Africa. Next story was on Sudan…”primitive savages” seemed to be the underlying message in their comments.

I could go on and on, but this is the general meme of their arguments.

Finally, Africa does have a lot of problems, I do not deny that. I live here and we are all faced with our problems. But we are more than the sum of our failures.

Here is fact: 8.5 billion dollars worth of diamonds are extracted out of Africa every year. It is enough to wipe out hunger and poverty in Africa.

This is just diamonds. Here is another fact: only an eighth of Africa’s mineral have been discovered. The clamour for Africa’s rare minerals have began. There is no continent like Africa. Congo alone could feed us for 20 years. I wish we could really see how much we have and rise as a people and take fate into our hands.

@Oyan, I agree with you. We as Africans and black people are way too forgiving! Look at the Jews, they did not forgive or forget. We should emulate them!

honestly, I really do wish all of you would leave us alone. Thanks. Your “help” is more about how good you want to feel than about us really. Am not trying to be your feel good moment. I don’t think many Africans like it.

I can assure you that Africa has never been my “feel good moment”. I’ve never been there. Never plan to go there. And I’ve never given a cent to any charity except for those performing medical research. I believe most charities end up making things worse. People shouldn’t become dependent on handouts whether it’s welfare or ‘save the children’. There’s a reason national parks have signs that say, “Don’t Feed the Bears.” It’s bad for bears and its bad for the people feeding them. And it’s just as bad when people get charity.

Saying blacks is less intelligent than whites is something I have come to believe as an explanatory principle of blacks, condition. It’s not something I created, nor do I say it in any disdain….it’s just something that’s true and explains an awful lot. You are just shooting the messenger.

I “disdain” I speak of here is those who speak ill of those who are helping. I am criticizing the criticizers for what they are doing – disdaining – not for any of their abilities. People are held responsible for what they do, not for who they are.

neoliberal policies That was India’s first mistake. Should have tried capitalist policies. Works much better.

Trickle-down economy has failed. Don’t think so. The strange term just makes it amenable to ridicule.

Charity does not solve poverty, it keeps a very tiny percentage of people in poverty barely alive. This is all charity could ever be expected to do. Solving poverty comes from the country, their government in its policies, and the people themselves, including developing/adopting a culture of growth.

This part gets really uncomfortable for people like you who think you’re doing us a favour by tossing $5 a week at us No, I personally don’t even do this; hence, no discomfort. I give $0 to overseas charities. They let do it on their own. They constantly criticize USA and Americans, so let them pound salt.

core reason of poverty, the international policies, ….., and finally capitalism itself Lady, I’ll bet you learned your wacko liberal-socialist ways right here in the USA at one of our fine leftist universities. We wouldn’t need any international policies if the poor countries were already doing fine on their own. Capitalism is the GREATEST solution to poverty. Look at Hong Kong, Asian tigers, and China. They are growing due to their adoption of Western (white) capitalist policies.

Do away with the charity industry by all means. Here we agree. YOU can be the one to tell your people you recommended turning down western money because it was given by snotty white people. Then take the first flight out of your country immediately, for your own safety.

stop the people who want to boast to people ‘you know, I donated to the poor kids in Africa Really. You think this is why people do this? Do you think white people are not caring? How RACIST!!!!

” I agree with you. We as Africans and black people are way too forgiving! Look at the Jews, they did not forgive or forget. We should emulate them!”

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Speaking with my individual POV as a descendant of those kidnapped from somewhere in West Africa, I don’t think Jews are the people we should emulate. Without going into a lengthy post, here’s why.

There exists in a Marvel Comic storyline about a mythical technologically advanced self-sustaining, never colonized, never conquered Kingdom/nation in Africa that’s run by a fictional King/Ruler named T’challa, aka The Black Panther.

This “fictional” Kingdom, an African nation named Wakanda, imo, is closer to who we once were as Africans, (i.e. the Moors ..) in antiquity than the present model of real life Jews.

If we need to emulate someone, let’s model ourselves after own ancestors/people before they were overcome by Europeans.
Even the mythical Wakandan empire is a better role model than modern, present day Israel largely comprised of Ashkenazi Jews. How can it be good for our young to grow up wanting to pattern/model/emulate after a group made up of largely European people? Haven’t we already witnessed enough of the harm internalized racism has pained us?

Pffft yourself. Apparently you don’t care about the disadvantaged either, otherwise, you wouldn’t put down people like Jolie or Bono.

You’re new around here, aren’t you? And you don’t have a clue as to the kind of person I am so please spare me with the “you don’t care about the disadvantaged either” crap. Again, what do I care about Angelina Jolie and Bono? They’re just a bunch of rich, influential white people who smile for the camera patting themselves on the back for the “good” they’ve done. What a great photo op.

It’s disgusting to me how many commenters disdain white people so much that they would criticize their efforts to help.

(The spirit of Rochester rasps); “Help us, help us lousy nigras sah! What is disgusting is they have neglected to clean up their own back yard whilst helping someone else with theirs. Anything to keep the nigras at home in their place. At the same time you can feel good about yourself for helping the nigras overseas!

Stop blaming Americans for everything and start paying more attention to the problems of your own country!

Why don’t you go kiss some more white behind?

I would like to hear some credit for this man here.

Thanks white folks! Now can you do for us here at home what you are doing for others abroad?

@anglesanddimensions:

He is smarter than you because he is a white man, never forget that!

But of course I’m a “dishonest white”. Is there any other kind?

If there is I have yet to meet one! Really you sound paranoid.

There’s a reason national parks have signs that say, “Don’t Feed the Bears.” It’s bad for bears and its bad for the people feeding them.

Stop! Will the lunacy never end? What's wrong with you?

People are held responsible for what they do, not for who they are.

If that were true you would stop writing the reams of garbage that you do.

Saying blacks is less intelligent than whites is something I have come to believe as an explanatory principle of blacks, condition. It’s not something I created, nor do I say it in any disdain….it’s just something that’s true and explains an awful lot. You are just shooting the messenger.

I “disdain” I speak of here is those who speak ill of those who are helping. I am criticizing the criticizers for what they are doing – disdaining – not for any of their abilities. People are held responsible for what they do, not for who they are.

1. So, what you’re saying is that any theory that “proves” the so-called inferiority of blacks and Africans is something you would automatically believe without question? (yes or no) And any proof that counters this is just wrong? (yes or no)

2. No one here has the right to question or criticize anything they find suspicious when it comes to whites always being seen as saviors of Africans even though that not only does it offend, but also raises important questions? (yes or no)

3. If people are held responsible for what they do and not who they are, then:

a. Why can’t we hold you responsible for the racist…i’m sorry, race realist crap you spew all the time that offends the people here?
b. Why is it you believe that blacks and Africans are responsible for the ills they go through and face because they are black and African and nothing else?
c. Why don’t you hold white people responsible for the ills they’ve done to themselves and other people?

“Perhaps FG is another advocate of the:
— “non-American ‘foreigners’ have no right to comment on this blog-site and if they comment must only praise everything about the US” —
school of non-thought?”

I never told anyone that they can’t criticize the US (or other countries). I just think that several of this blog’s patrons have an unhealthy, sometimes hateful obsession with Americans and American social life. This reached a crescendo with the micro-analysis of the YouTube video made by those two little girls from Florida. If two 15 year-olds living in Britain or France made a comparable video, I wouldn’t give it any attention whatsoever. That’s because I am primarily (though not solely) concerned with what’s going on in the society in which I was born and raised.

You’re new around here, aren’t you? Yeah I am, but more than a match for you, young missy.

you don’t have a clue as to the kind of person I am Let’s see – you think you’re nasty, sassy, think you know more than you do and you actually think that I care.

what do I care about Angelina Jolie and Bono? You missed the point. I don’t care Jolie and Bono either. However, celebrities attract attentionto their causes and that helps the disadvantaged. The point that you missed is the celebrities are unimportant, what they can bring in to help the disadvantagedis what is important. It seems you would let the disadvantage suffer, just to spite the celebrities. Do you understand now.

inferiority of blacks and Africans…believe without question I never stated I believed it without question, like I just woke up one day and it was convenient to me to believe. No, I believe, not in “inferiority”, like you state, but that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites, which causes them to underachieve in a white-based society like the USA. I don’t believe it without question, I have come to see it as a good explanation of blacks’ condition in USA, as opposed to the white racism charges of people like Abagond.

whites …. as saviors of Africans Why do you obsess on this? Whites do what they do to help, other people do what they do to help Africans. Just because there is some publicity in the USA about white peoples efforts, is no reason to get concerned. I would think you would be happy about anyone helping Africans.

we hold you responsible for the realist crap you spew What do you mean by responsible? You can challenge me at anytime on this blog. If you want me to respond, you must write something worth responding to, not just a bunch of personal attacks.

Why is it you believe that blacks and Africans are responsible for the ills they go through and face because they are black and African and nothing else? As I said before, I believe blacks’ have trouble in USA because of what I said earlier. These are the main reasons.

Why don’t you hold white people responsible for the ills they’ve done to themselves and other people In the last 50 years, whites have been overwhelming helpful to blacks. Few blacks today should be concerned with happened before that, because that is before their time. However, I see many blacks, on this blog and others, who obsess over the past times. I think they’re just trying to scam whites and get extra benefits. Blacks need to let go off past times and be concerned with what is happening in the present and what that means for the future.

you can feel good about yourself for helping the nigras overseas Maybe you would prefer we don’t help the “nigras overseas”, just so the snotty white people don’t feel good about themselves? A great help you are to the disadvantaged.

ever hear of Lauren Gallindo? No, I haven’t and I don’t care about Jolie’s personal life. I am just here to point out that many commenters would rather criticize Jolie, Bono, etc about the publicity they attract, out of jealously, rather than their efforts to help the disadvantaged. Would you would prefer we don’t help, just so the snotty white people don’t feel good about themselves?

How can someone think Africans are inferior then feel out of sorts because we don’t think Africans need white help? These people don’t care about Africans. So why are they pretending indignation. Am I the only one who sees how illogical this argument is? Abagond sure has some interesting visitors.People who think we are inferior, but will spend days and days arguing with those they consider beneath them. o_0??

You confuse me. The Africans can refuse white help at any time. How can you say whites don’t “care about Africans” when we do many things to help. I’m feeling that whites will be criticized by blacks NO MATTER what we do.

“Reporter Asked Trayvon Martin’s Mom If He Ate Chicken! LAMO. How great is that!?”

That is what you wrote on another post. You are filth. Your diseased mind has been exposed. There is nothing you can say, no sanctimonious stance you can fake. You’ve been exposed by your own words. Don’t address me ever again. Just typing to you creeps me out. You’re a racist with a hard heart. You are irredeemable. I feel sorry for you, but on the other hand, I am deeply disgusted by your very presence. Please. Don’t address me again.

I won’t try to participate in derailing this thread for your amusement, but you’re just showing how trolls think when it comes to your comments: You basically don’t give a damn who you offend on this blog, do you?

Now back to our conversation:

inferiority of blacks and Africans…believe without question I never stated I believed it without question, like I just woke up one day and it was convenient to me to believe. No, I believe, not in “inferiority”, like you state, but that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites, which causes them to underachieve in a white-based society like the USA. I don’t believe it without question, I have come to see it as a good explanation of blacks’ condition in USA, as opposed to the white racism charges of people like Abagond.

You say you never stated you believed in black inferiority, but then again, I don’t recall you saying that you’ve questioned or not questioned it either until now when you said that you don’t believe without question.

Here’s what’s so funny. You say you don’t believe in “inferiority” and yet you say that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites which causes us to underachieve in a white-based society like this one. Well, what else do you call it especially compared with your brand or level of so-called intelligence, behavior, and mentality?

You don’t have to say “inferiority” outright if all that what you say you believe in compares one group of people to another based on your own prejudices. If you truly do think blacks are inferior, why not be a (white) man and say it instead of double talking.

whites …. as saviors of Africans Why do you obsess on this? Whites do what they do to help, other people do what they do to help Africans. Just because there is some publicity in the USA about white peoples efforts, is no reason to get concerned. I would think you would be happy about anyone helping Africans.

If anyone is obsessed with white saviors it’s white people and their media. I’m not happy if all I see are white people as generous, altruistic human beings saving the poor, helpless Africans who can’t save themselves. Why the bloody hell would I be happy to see those images over and over again?

we hold you responsible for the realist crap you spew What do you mean by responsible? You can challenge me at anytime on this blog. If you want me to respond, you must write something worth responding to, not just a bunch of personal attacks.

If you’re a white man with intelligence superior to my own, why don’t you tell me what responsible is?

I, Abagond, and most other people have challenged you. Yet, you come up with laughable, offensive, and degrading responses like a typical troll. We’ve written something worth responding to and yet you seem to cower behind your race-realism, fake knowledge of history, narrow-mindedness and other dehumanizing responses.

Why is it you believe that blacks and Africans are responsible for the ills they go through and face because they are black and African and nothing else? As I said before, I believe blacks’ have trouble in USA because of what I said earlier. These are the main reasons.

So, the answer is yes.

Why don’t you hold white people responsible for the ills they’ve done to themselves and other people In the last 50 years, whites have been overwhelming helpful to blacks. Few blacks today should be concerned with happened before that, because that is before their time. However, I see many blacks, on this blog and others, who obsess over the past times. I think they’re just trying to scam whites and get extra benefits. Blacks need to let go off past times and be concerned with what is happening in the present and what that means for the future.

See? This is what pisses me off the most. You and your “that’s in the past and it doesn’t matter” crock of bullshit you always type.

And how the f*ck have whites been overwhelming helpful to blacks? Name some true examples–that have actually worked.

Your problem is that you can’t stand to face the truth of the white race’s past let alone the present. No wonder you have a poor knowledge of history. But I bet dollars to donuts that you would get orgasms about Paul Revere’s ride, Ben Franklin’s innovations, and the most important event, how this country was founded.

But Heaven forbid you learning about–and I have to keep this within the subject matter–European colonization of Africa and the West’s–and Europe’s–exploitation of the continent’s rich resources, and the support of the dictators of certain regions. All of which were orchestrated mostly by whites in a subtle method of modern imperialism for greed and power.

This is why I’m tired of seeing the same “white savior of Africa” image over and over again when most/many whites, especially those in power, have corporate interests in the land, and will do ANYTHING, which includes destruction, to take over.

For the record, learn to read directions carefully because I did ask for ‘yes or no’ answers and not paragraphs.

What should George Clooney be doing? I’ve seen him interviewed, and he seems to be truly passionate about the causes he gets involved with. Does anyone here know differently?

The map at the start of this thread is bogus. It is titled “African Slave Trade” yet the arrows coded for volume really only show the Atlantic slave trade.

Trickle down is a failure. Feudalism was an example of “trickle down”. The basic problem is that pure capitalism tends to concentrate wealth in few people to the extent that they can manage it. The sayings “it takes money to make money” and “them that have the gold make the rules” are as true now as they ever were. This is even more true in places without decent education systems. The rich can send their kids abroad – what do the poor do?

neoliberal policies That was India’s first mistake. Should have tried capitalist policies. Works much better…
Lady, I’ll bet you learned your wacko liberal-socialist ways right here in the USA at one of our fine leftist universities. We wouldn’t need any international policies if the poor countries were already doing fine on their own. Capitalism is the GREATEST solution to poverty. Look at Hong Kong, Asian tigers, and China. They are growing due to their adoption of Western (white) capitalist policies.

Because there do not exist any mainstream leftist parties in the US, the American left is the global centrist with a Keynesian approach, practicing a somewhat cushioned capitalism. The political terminology is upside down – the Keynesians are called liberals. If you had the slightest familiarity with politics except what your mainstream ‘Faux’ and CNN are blathering, you would’ve known that neoliberalism is in common parliance what is called the free market policy. Fine specimen of the superior race, you are. And yeah, you lost the bet.

I will not derail the thread going into China’s widespread poverty, labourer repression etc.

stop the people who want to boast to people ‘you know, I donated to the poor kids in Africa Really. You think this is why people do this? Do you think white people are not caring? How RACIST!!!!

I’ve seen American people boast of charity too many times not to think this is the chief reason they donate. I do not say there aren’t white people who care (this is so tiring and we’ve all been through this several times, but you lot are rigidly against any observation of traits prevalent in white people or American people. This helps you deny that environment conditions a person thus denying the necessity to change the environment and attributing everything to ‘genes’, ‘internal structure’ etc. Funnily, you people are constantly making general assuptions about black people, Arab people, Indian people, East Asian people, Muslim people and so on. While not allowing general observation of white Americans and making general observations of many other groups, traits get attributed to race, religion, nationality et al while the white American culture remains ‘no-culture’). Few people, of any ethnicity or nationality, really care. But there’s no point repeating what I’ve made obvious in my previous posts. Not sorry to disappoint you, I think that is exactly why people do this. And this culture of hypocrisy is spread with a purpose which is beyond your comprehension, I’m afraid.

Jesus Christ, of all people, said that if you do your charity for the world to see then it is not true charity but hypocrisy: you are doing it not out of love and concern but to make yourself SEEM like a good person to others.

“Reporter Asked Trayvon Martin’s Mom If He Ate Chicken! LAMO. How great is that!?”

That is what you wrote on another post. You are filth. Your diseased mind has been exposed. There is nothing you can say, no sanctimonious stance you can fake. You’ve been exposed by your own words. Don’t address me ever again. Just typing to you creeps me out. You’re a racist with a hard heart. You are irredeemable. I feel sorry for you, but on the other hand, I am deeply disgusted by your very presence. Please. Don’t address me again.

*shudder*

Wow, this fellow finds amusement with the chicken comment? Sick! You are so on the money about this pathetic excuse for a human being, DB. The fact that I even acknowledged his lowly presence gives me a feeling of revulsion.

“The map at the start of this thread is bogus. It is titled “African Slave Trade” yet the arrows coded for volume really only show the Atlantic slave trade.”

It does show African slaves going to other parts of the world. If you have hard numbers, rather than wishful thinking, to dispute the indicated volumes for those years (1500-1870) then please share.

Personally I doubt it: there is a huge African Diaspora (160 million people) on the shores of the Western Atlantic. I do not see signs of anything like it elsewhere from the past 10,000 years. The closest thing is the Bantu Expansion but that was within Africa.

In case you do not know, Arab slave traders are a moral fig leaf White Americans like to hide behind. As the map shows it is a pretty slim one.

A few more things you need to realize. The reason why, as you say, I–or rather we are obsessed with the white savior bit is because it’s shoved into our eyes and eyes all the time. We can’t go anywhere without hearing about it from the TV, the radio, or even our co-workers.

But do you hear or see POC going to Africa and doing good deeds there? Hardly. Does this mean POC, including blacks, don’t go to Africa? No. Does this mean they don’t perform good deeds over there. Again, no! But how often do you hear about them as opposed to the white people saving Africa news? You’d be lucky to hear about it at all outside of the Trinity Broadcasting Network, and even then it rarely happens.

The point is that Africans are not helpless. Only someone who learns from the mainstream media or raised by that way would foolishly believe that unquestionably.

I had to deal with two people on Colorlines.com who see white saviors as white saints!! They see this guy Jason Russell as an angel and his movement as something 100% noble. When I placed my two cents into the forum, one kept going on and on about why is this a race issue. The other believed that Africans are really helpless and hopeless. Both saw Kony 2012 as a God send, and despised the fact that questions and criticisms were made as a response. These two would not see what the “fuss” was about no matter what explanations were given. It was like talking to a two cartoon idiots.

I should post the link to the video about Jason’s bender. Then again, they may consider it as a leftist plot, anything not to see the shadows behind their “white knight”.

Given the bad relationship that whites have had with Africa – slavery, colonialism, neocolonialism, etc – any thinking person is going to question the motives of whites who want to “help”.

Whites in general have way more power in the world than blacks. That the prime minister of Uganda felt the need to defend his country from a YouTube video and found himself writing to the likes of Justin Bieber and Lady Gaga shows that imbalance. It shows how dangerous “well-meaning” whites can be.

Broken Africa is basically the bases for racist propaganda in USA and around the west, mainly. The idea behind it is that because the whole Africa is just a cesspool of hunger, diseases and poverty and failure, no wonder that all the blacks are basically the same all over the world.

Broken Africa is the reason why blacks are below whites and stay there and should stay there. No need for complicated HBD theories nor any other scinetific crap, just point a finger to Africa and say: See? Broken Africa is the patent aswer for all questions about racism. “See+ Look at It yourself!”.

It is also very important, almost essential, to show year after year how the White West rescues africans from africans and most of all, from Africa itself. It is very important to repeat this message in various forms and platforms, overtly and subliminaly, ober and over again, untill it becomes a reality and replaces any other idea of Africa. It is via this repetition that comes the idea that it is natural to send in some relief troops or military into Africa to helpo africans, because they can not helpo themselves.

In this propaganda it is also very important to avoid all images, stories and videos of any sort of normalcy. Delete all information that shows how normal life is in Africa. Deny all the development in Africa. Also, high light the corrupt leaders of Africa as natural beings for Africa and do not even hint that those guys are stealing their countries blind with the help and assistance of white bankers and consults and big companies etc., sometimes with the helpo of white soldiers who may be “advisors” or “security consultants” or even “friendly forces supporting and protecting democracy”.

Put all these together and you once again can do what ever you want or need to do when ever it is in your white western interests. A very good example: somali pirates. International fishing industry has been stealing the fish from the sea and somali fishermen had no more their traditional way to support their families etc. They became pirates. And how this has been presented in the western media??

That is why and how Africa is ad will be broken in the white western media.

I see that you’re “trying” to read my posts. Good for you!! LOL
Keep at it. With time and practice your comprehension skills will improve.
In time, your ability to see past the box you’re in may improve.

At any rate, I think (despite your confusion) this point can’t be stressed enough. Israel is not a good role model to emulate! 🙂

What I actually wrote was:

“This “fictional” Kingdom, an African nation named Wakanda, imo, is closer to who we once were as Africans, (i.e. the Moors ..) in antiquity than the present model of real life Jews.

If we need to emulate someone, let’s model ourselves after own ancestors/people before they were overcome by Europeans.
Even the mythical Wakandan empire is a better role model than modern, present day Israel largely comprised of Ashkenazi Jews. How can it be good for our young to grow up wanting to pattern/model/emulate after a group made up of largely European people? Haven’t we already witnessed enough of the harm internalized racism has pained us?”

“Which brings me to the 2 ‘little girls’ on their racist rant on another recent thread.”

“Do you have any sympathy for the black and brown little girls these girls were hating on? And you think Abagond wrote that post only for American commenters?”

—
I caught that comment, too. “FC” referred to the teen racists in Florida as “little girls.” On another thread, destructure seems to believe that Trayvon, who was around the same age, was a grown man because he could grow hair on his face and get a drivers license. Different commenters with the same double standard.

Let’s see – you think you’re nasty, sassy, think you know more than you do and you actually think that I care.

That sounds like you are describing yourself.

Do you understand now.

No. You’re writing in circles. On the one hand celebrities are unimportant. On the other hand they generate publicity for these photo-ops, I mean charities. If the celebrities are not important, then how do they engender the publicity to get people to ‘donate’ en masse to these charities? Maybe you and your ilk can promote these causes!

No, I believe, not in “inferiority”, like you state, but that blacks are less intelligent, more impulsive, and less forward thinking than whites, which causes them to underachieve in a white-based society like the USA.

What Bliff really means; “I hate ni&&ers, but am to ‘civil’ to use uncivil words. I prefer to baffle people with nonsense! It is more fun and helps me bolster my already low to non-existant self worth. Where would we be without the lowly negro to enhance our sense of worth or to compare ourselves to(of course to our betterment)?

If you want me to respond, you must write something worth responding to, not just a bunch of personal attacks.

Oh and I guess your reply to Leigh was constructive criticism, cretin?

I think they’re just trying to scam whites and get extra benefits.

Where can I sign up for this program genius? I could use the extra benefits and cash to buy a new handbag!

. Blacks need to let go off past times and be concerned with what is happening in the present and what that means for the future.

According to you, Bliff, we are less intelligent so therefore we cannot. Any suggestions?

So why are they pretending indignation. Am I the only one who sees how illogical this argument is?

Nope. I am starting to think they let the lunatics loose on the computers at the mental hospital. They are f—ed in the head, morally bankrupt among other things. It is too bad there is a comments policy here or I would really let this Bliff person know what I think of them. T’wouldn’t be nice and would make one’s ears burn!

There are some folks on this blog, that I won’t mention, who just come here to incite and fan the flames of racial hatred. These individuals have no purpose here. They’re not here to learn or heal or understand a damn thing.

The woman on the first pic appears to be posing. It’s a norm for western jurnos to go to the refugee camps and actively look for the thinnest children to photograph. A former jurno narrated at how his former boss used to reject his work because the children were “not thin enough”

During the Horn of Africa drought last year, a common complaint among the Somali people at the refugee camps was the jurnos who kept asking them to uncover their children so that they can take “good” pictures. It seems the more the ribs that can be counted, then so much the better.

On the Kony 2012 issue, I learned that our hero recently embarked on a public masturbating frenzy. Apparently he is also a coke addict. It just goes to show that whites are still hankering for for negative narrative about Africa and they will reflexively buy into any such nonsense without even questioning who came up with it.

The first picture was taken by photojournalist Kate Holt, who works for the British media and NGOs. If you click on the picture it leads to her blog where you can find out more about the picture and about her.

The first two pictures are from Dadaab, a vast refugee camp in Kenya where hundreds of thousands have fled famine and war in Somalia.

The third picture is from a coffee house in an upmarket Nairobi mall. It is by Noor Khamis for Reuters and appeared in the South African press.

No it wasn’t. ssAfrica has always been a very lagging part of the world, throughout all history. There was no literacy in African languages until Europeans taught that to them.

Why? Because of the major geographic races with lots of members, ssAfricans are the least intelligent. Other races as distinct as ssAfricans are from the other six or so major geographic races, are even less intelligent on average than ssAfricans, such as the Koisans, Pygmies, and Australian Aborigines. However their numbers have always been relatively few, and also their impact on world history, A. Aborigines partly excepted due to overplayed by leftists white guilt.

Oh c”mon the “chicken comment was in extremely bad taste”. This whole blog is in bad taste. People attack me personally all the time here. I’ve seen pornographic conversations on this blog about porn movies (Not that there’s anything wrong with that).

In fact,I was only quoting Oyan who stated it first.

It’s TRUE! Blacks are really OVERSENSITIVE to mild things. In fact, I think it’s worse than that. I think you guys feign being insulted just to have something to whine about and shoot back at the whites.

You’re writing in circles. No I’m not. You’re playing games with the references to the word important. The celebrities are important to the charities because they raise awareness and bring in more money than if the were not involved. The celebrities should be unimportant to observers, like you, because you should be concerned with the charity work, not weather Jolie and Bono are getting any more publicity. You see? A completely contained reason thought, no circular logic.

What Bliff really means; “I hate ni&&ers. Wrong again. I believe what I said because it seems to be a good explanatory principle. Like a scientific theory. There is no hate involved. Just a dispassionate belief. I have no reason to hate black people. Can you prove that I do?

Where can I sign up for this program genius. You probably already have: affirmative action, anti-discrimination laws restricting whites’ actions, Title I, Head Start, many programs for the poor that help blacks disproportionately.

what that means for the future. If you can’t run or walk, then at least limp into the future. Quit whining about the past, and think about your future in this greatest of all countries.

where was the US when the Acholi people…Banyore massacre….Mukula massacre….Uganda People’s Defence Force…. DR Congo’s resources were being plundered?

The rest of the world, including you, apparently think they have some say in where the USA employs its military forces. The USA will employ them where we have an interest. Africa is not really that place. I wasn’t important when we were confronting the USSR, and it’s not so important in the MIdEast.

Contrary to myth, we DON’T jump into every conflict there is. We get blasted by the rest of the world as it is, so why would we jump into meaningless African conflict?

we are obsessed with the white savior bit is because it’s shoved into our eyes and eyes . It is NOT!! You’re just whining. I watch TV too and it’s just not on that much. If you don’t like it turn the channel.

I would really let this Bliff person know what I think of them. I think you already have….in so many words. Frankly, Herneith, I think you’re just ticked because the truth hurts; you know it and I know it.

Normally, I ignore your because your arguments because they’re flimsy and full of holes. But periodically, just to demonstrate how little you know, (despite all your desperate posturing) I like to prove that you’re an idiot and that you don’t know squat. Here we go again…

“There was no literacy in African languages until Europeans taught that to them.”

Right off the top of my head Ge’ez, Chromatographic Edo Script, Nsibidi, are three African writing systems among a number, that pre-date the arrival of Europeans on the continent. Now I’ll sit here and wait for you to shift goal posts, by attempt to invalidate that fact by saying something ridiculous like “There were no books, so it doesn’t count!”

” Now I’ll sit here and wait for you to shift goal posts, by attempt to invalidate that fact by saying something ridiculous like “There were no books, so it doesn’t count!””

Exactly. They may tell themselves that we are intellectually inferior, but who are the geniuses arguing with people they consider below them day after day? This is one of those regurgitated “facts” that white supremacist like to regurgitate. Even though the reality is vastly different. But hey, they can’t like little things like facts get in the way of their good old fashioned hate.

“ssAfrica has always been a very lagging part of the world, throughout all history.”

Öööh… You do know that your ancestors came from Africa? Like, all humanbeings came from Africa, right?

And since we are now on the subject, what your ancestors were doing when the nubians were building pyramids or those guys in Timbuktu were collecting one of the biggest library in the world, or those guys in present day Zimbabwe were trading with gold and silver and building castles from stone?

You do know that most of the whites who escaped or were sent by force, were slaves or prisoners or just ran out from Europe because they could not make it there, could not even read, right? You know that at that time the english men bathed perhaps once or twice a year, right?

You do know that the parfume industry was created to cover up the rampant diseases in the court of the Sun Kig of France back in the late 1600’s because the smell of rottening felsh, infections, and other of such since they did not have a single toilet in Versailles nor used baths? Never mind that africans had have their parfumes for centuries by then and washed almost daily were ever water was available.

You do know that in 1700’s absolute majority of the white europeans could not read or write? Majority of the white europeans could not read or write in first half of the next century either.

You do know that there were massive famines in Europe in 1800’s?

You do know that it was only in 1800’s that the white europeans realised that it could be a good idea to wash hands before helping at child birth or surgical operations or at all? The japanese, chinese and indiand, arabs and some africans had done it for centuries by that time.

You do know that the Great White Man had no say so in most parts of Africa untill 1800’s? The funniest thing is that they died in there and could not live there because they had no idea how to survive there. The crucial point came when they realised that perhaps we should learn something from the natives, like kinine, the only working medicine against malaria, which by the way, the africans had used and known for centuries by then. And this happened in late 1800’s, not before.

Now I wonder, if africans and Africa had been lagging all trough the history, why on earth the white man did not take over before that? Why white men did not invade Africa before 1800’s? According to you, the place was a mess and lagging already.

Why not the vikings, who went to America and Asia and kicked almost everyones butts, did not just row their boats up the Nile or Kongo and kicked the butts of those black semianimals and steal their ivory and gold? They did it almost anywhere else, like in the White Sea area where they brought the northern ivory, tusks of the walruses. They were trading slaves from Ireland to Caspia Sea, so why not from Africa?

Why the great english sea dogs and explorers did not just occupy that lagging part of the world in 1600’s? Why the french did not do that? Or the dutch? I mean, they invaded and occupied the East India.

And on that note, why the americans, the greatest of the great whites, did not take over the whole continent from those savages in 1800’s? They took their own continent from the natives just like that, so it could not have been morally wrong or even impossible, right?

Ok, why the USA did not invade and take over Africa after WW1 or WW2? I mean, USA was the only super power in 1945. It could have been so easy. Right?

Now, lets see how the mighty USA has been doing in the lagging Africa… Somalia in 1990’s, anyone??

Ignorance is caused by, well, ignorance. Apart from American history, American schools spend way too much time only focusing on Europe. As a high school student, all I’ve learned about Africa from school are basically things that contribute to African stereotypes. I blame textbook makers, and schools, for buying these inadequate learning devices. I don’t understand why the good parts of Africa are completely ignored, beyond ancient Egypt and parts of South Africa. Just because someone doesn’t live in a mansion doesn’t mean their life sucks. But at the same time, there are many people who do live in mansions. I don’t understand why this sort of thing continues

I recall seeing the above JS video years ago. SIX MILLION people from third world (non-white) countries are DEAD in the wake of the CIA’s 40 years (at the time that video clip was produced) involvement in the affairs “other” nations

Remember, this video was made way BEFORE the 911 false flag operation invasion that led to the phony War On Terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan (and Iran too if these crooks have their way).

The white racial frame propaganda machine prohibits people from seeing who the true, brutally efficient criminals are in America, and those who are dead as a result. Some of us here know that non-white dead (or alive) people don’t cause whites much concern, or sympathy.

Yet, incredulously adding insult to injury, the white racial frame (POV) maintains that blacks are the most violent criminal group in America that deserves incarceration.

The combined number of black violent criminals worldwide can’t begin to match the atrocities of the top 2% of white male criminals – the ones who wear badges, uniforms, white collars, carry brief-cases and have never seen the inside of a prison.

Remember this the next time a troll, or whomever, suggests to you that blacks are the most aggressive, violent and criminal people on earth.

So, all US disruptive involvement in Africa is military? If you’re addressing me, please explain why would you even ask me this. I have made no such generalization. I made one comment about how the USA does not get involved in every conflict when you listed some conflicts in Africa you apparently thought we should’ve have got involved in.

“Does this means then, that the real challenge is to find other sources of capital?”

—
Dr. Moyo recommends encouraging and assisting people to start their own businesses. She says that http://www.kiva.org is a good way to do this, and believes it will prove to be more beneficial over time than funding from NGOs and others.

All of us know that our african sistas and brothas have to reconstruct “Mama Africa” on their own accord going forward, but, we can’t allow those who created the mess to wash their hands of what we see taking place in nations such as Somalia, Sudan, Libya, Congo, Uganda, Nigeria, etc. We should bitch and moan about the ish that we see going on. As black people, we should be outraged at so-called black leadership in this country and in africa. George Clooney has to get arrested outside the Sudanese Embassy to bring attention to the genocide in Sudan and South Sudan, WTF? Why the hell are we voting for a bunch of yes men and women who don’t speak up for us anyway? The CBC loves to travel to africa, but can’t open their mouths when the s**t hits the fan. We have a so-called black president in power, and the bs is still taking place…Scary!!!

It seems like Dr. Moyo is ignoring the wests involvement over the years in creating instability and poverty, its not “aid” that has created the problem.

In a very real way, its the system she is talking about, capitalism, profitting off of another human beings misery is pretty much the central tenent of capitalism.

I mean, in the US we getting tremendous amounts of aid from China, so she may have a point. If China wasn’t willing to give us money would we have gone to war?

On the other hand; socialistic countries are way more stable than the ones like the US which are more based on a capitalistic economic system. Less criminal, more literate, less depression etc….

And her Ethiopian example; she pointed out the African average for ownership of cell phones was 30% so their must be countries out their that recieve aid that don’t fall under the Ethiopia example, countries that can do both aid and capitalism, why not look to them as examples?

That being said; she points out the problems with the Aids Culture, its messages are negative and ultimately potentially harmful as pointed out with Invisible Children, if they cause tourism to fall even a tiny miniscule amount they have simply done harm and no good.

The Aids culture message negates people wanting to do business or even interact in africa, while at the same time not pointing fingers at the damage our culture as a whole has done to Africa.

You really should look at Unamusement Park. He has a great flyer on stereotypes (no, really).

There is this thing in statistics called “The Exception that Proves the Rule.” The term is somewhat misleading. A better, albeit less catchy term would be “The Anomaly that Highlights the Tendency.”

Hitler is one of those exceptions. As is Stalin.

Back to the thing about blacks being just as fit to run a country as whites. Are you willing to make the argument that South Africa is better now than it was 30 years ago? What about Namibia?

Human differences exist. Things would go a lot better if we recognized them and compensated for them. We would have saved millions of lives in America and Africa alike if we would not hide behind your liberal curtain.

If you would like me to show you some evidence that racial differences do indeed exist, you are welcome to email me (please resist the urge to troll). My email is secularblood (at) gmail (dot) com.

Is that the same Unamused who didn’t even know that “The Rule of Thumb” was an idiom, that had his entire blog consistently refuted by the infamously nutty (but accurate) Obsidian (who Unamused banned because he couldn’t handle facts), and who has been thoroughly embarrassed on this very blog?
He’s a joke who “whores out”/shamelessly plugs his worthless blog and brags about traffic, like he’s some sort of posturing 12 year old that desperately needs validation in order to prove to himself “that he’s a big boy now.”

“Human differences exist. Things would go a lot better if we recognized them and compensated for them. We would have saved millions of lives in America and Africa alike if we would not hide behind your liberal curtain.”

Your approach has been tried and instead of saving lives it has led to the deaths of tens of millions of people, like Jews, blacks, Gypsies and natives on three continents. “Things” only went better for white Christians.

The current racism of ordinary White Americans, a racism much milder than yours, has led to the rise of the Kleptocracy, bringing levels of class inequality even worse than famously kleptocratic Nigeria. But then again, as a Social Darwinist, you are probably proud of that.

I mean they bad talked the various modern powers at that meeting but they themselves do fuck all to help out the various countries around them.

Its a monarchy with an incredibly wealthy elite at the top with an incredibly poor bottom layer…..I mean the people at the top are pretty much techno-gods while the people at the bottom live in huts and still use spears to hunt.

Exactly why don’t they share their technology more, not only with other countries but within their own as well?

I don’t think there’s any escaping the class system they have going on if you want social mobility.

“Lets look at Israel. A constitutional created from an international diaspora of varying peoples. They are energy independent, due to nuclear power. They can kick anyone’s ass, conventionally and nuclear – no nation in their vicinity can fuck with them!!! Through lobbying and and strategic alliances, they guaranteed the utmost support of the US . They have created a “start-up nation” , in essence, a national Silicon Valley. And most importantly, they have enslaved and destroyed the nation-state (West Bank, Gaza Strip) that opposed them. Cheap labour forever. Yes, they could be kinder, but fuck that.”

“I know. I know. I find it hard to escape the fact of how smart and conscious I am.”

If a Pan-African solution were created, say a 19 nation Sub-Saharan African Federal Republic (SSAFR), it would by simple definition, be a sub-continental superpower, on the level of Brazil, Russia, India, China and yes, the U.S.

You write some of the best posts on this otherwise lame black-centered blog. However, this one left me LMAO. Are you serious? An African super-power? Run by a bunch of countries who can’t even run themselves. Africa is so tribal each country is dysfunctional, unless bailed out by whites, or more likely now, by the Chinese.

I suppose they could use that Western black powerhouse nation that has been independent for over 200 yrs now – Haiti – as a template. Yes, with Haiti’s senior leadership, maybe they could pull it off.

One thing from history when we are talking about how Africa and its history are seen and what really was:

How many of you know how big Christopher Columbus “ship” was? It was a pretty small boat, actually. Some plus 20 meters long if I don’t remember wrong. And how big were the “canoes” used along the Kongo river system from the earliest times? They were 50 to 60 meters long. They carried people and goods all across the “darkest Africa” for centuries before any white dude showed up with his tsuktsuk steam engines to the same waters.

Why not heavier boats? Because the canoes, just like those viking ships, could go trough shallow waters and navigate trough water vegetation, something that those steam engine boats could not do, even though they had nice sound and that advanced technology!

The guys living on the other side of the world in the New Caledonian islands had “canoes” even longer, carrying up 100 guys and their gear.

Ad the ships on the east coast of Africa? Well, they were bigger than any of the cogs in Europe for centuries. They were trading to Arabia and India and beyond. Some historian think all the way up to China. And this happened well before Marco Polo came back with noodles and created the spaghetti.

Also, something to think about: east africans were trading with the romans. They have discovered at least two cities (roman cities according to the white historians but it can be argued whose cities they actually were) on the east. These were trading with romans in Egypt and in Middle East via Red Sea etc.

The romans also recognised african kings and nations, they also fought long and hard wars against some of them, and if you read their texts about these african adversaries you’ll notice that the romans saw them as equal adversaries, enemies taken seriously. They were not less sub human savages than the celts or any other nations or people the romans met and fought with. Actually roman texts are more hostile and racist towards the northern people than the africans. Just read what they say about the people living beyond the germanic tribes.

So perhaps the history of Africa is not what it has been made to look like in recent decades or during last couple of centuries.

@satanf: Sure, but I just wanted to point out the fact that sea going vessels, which some argue were the reason for the expansion of the white european colonisation (and an example of more advanced technical know how of the whites vs black africans etc.) were NOT unique in the way some have seen it. And while we are here, some of the viking ships were pretty big too, from few centuries before those examples of wikipedia.

to get arrested outside the Sudanese Embassy to bring attention to the genocide in Sudan and South Sudan, WTF?

YOU ARE MISSING THE POINT!! THE POINT IS NOT TO BELIEVE THE GARBAGE THE MEDIA SAYS IS GOING ON IN AFRICA IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! if you meet someone from sudan, ask them about the genocide and i bet they will say “WHAT GENOCIDE”???

I love the construction/development shown in those videos you posted. It’s in sharp contrast to what the western MSM shows what;s going on in Africa.

That said, there’s something a bit unsettling about the tall apartment buildings – they seem to suggest movement towards higher population densities.

My personal preference – lol – is for a much lower skyline that lends towards a more spread out community contoured and integrated with open spaces.
People, especially children, should be closer and more connected to the land, NATURE and natural open spaces, rather than concrete, steel, and super tall hi-risers.

Perhaps those skyscrapers are the more affordable housing units for the less well to do as oppossed to the beautiful homes being constructed for the upper-middle class?

@Matari
I love your Malcolm X picutre. I listen to him these days instead of Lil Wayne and I am a Black teen. I wish you can get other Black teens to stop listening to Lil Wayne and start listening to Malcolm X’s message and speeches. He is way more important to Black History and more inspirational.
As for the Broken Africa Sterotype, where did that come from? The last time I studied African history, there were rich civilizations such as the Mali, Songhai etc. Africa was a rich contient with gold and resources. Even though Afirca seems to be poor today, some people from Africa tell me that there are shopping mall and things in Africa. They never show that on the TV and I always wondered why.

“As for the Broken Africa Sterotype, where did that come from? The last time I studied African history, there were rich civilizations such as the Mali, Songhai etc. Africa was a rich contient with gold and resources. Even though Afirca seems to be poor today, some people from Africa tell me that there are shopping mall and things in Africa. They never show that on the TV and I always wondered why.”

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Thank you. I totally agree with your opinion regarding Malcolm X vs many of today’s “commercial entertainment artists.” I’m certain there are other young people, however few they may be, who also (or will come to) share your view.

Why is Africa almost always shown in a very negative way on TV?

In a word: RACISM.

White Supremacy/Racism (whiteness) – in order to maintain itself – must elevate itself by devaluing/deflating others.
They transmit their supposed superiority and others’ supposed inferiority messages in thousands of different ways that affects everyone – whether they realize it or not.

Whiteness prefers to showcase Africa’s weaknesses and problems while failing to highlight her strengths, vast potential and material wealth/natural resources. Its intent is to own and control all or some of Africa’s vast mineral abundance because of its insatiable greed/need to consume/control everything and anything within its reach or grasp. Whiteness is like a really bad mental, emotional, spiritual sickness that cannot be cured or fixed.

@Matari
Thank you because I go to school and all they talk about is Africa being poor and not being anything. I always found that strange.
The movie, Hotel Rwanda was shown in my history class and it really made me think that Africa was poor and nothing.
Thank you for the info.

Always when learning history remember that it is told by some one who has his/hers own agenda and opinions. This is true in every history lesson, book, documentary etc. It is very important to learn more, so that one can make more complete picture about any issue at hand.

One very important thing about Africa: it is a huge continent. When western media talks about Africa, it is the same as it would be for Europeans look at USA nothing but a part of whole Americas and treat all of USA and its people like they are just the same as anyone from Chile or Brazil. That is how western media many times treats Africa.

As for Malcolm X, I think he was one of the most important thinkers of the last century. He was not the monolithic zelot the white media has been always presenting him. He corrected his own views if he learned otherwise and got more and more information for himself for his thinking, he was studying everything all the time, and most of all: he saw the big picture and did the analysis. Very dangerous thing.

He saw the whole thing as it was: poverty and disaster of the black ghettoes, crime and narcotics, black criminals working in cahoots with white criminals, who were working for white organised crime, who was working with the local police, federal law enforcement, CIA, with the help and the blessing of the politicians, who were errand boys of the white elite who was really ruling the country.

That made him so dangerous for that whole power network. That is why they decided to kill him one way or another. The same thing happened to Martin Luther King too, after he started to talk openly about that same power stucture. He understud it too and saw it and talked about it. And was killed.

“Stark Industries, in collaboration with Reed Richards, have found a way to cheaply synthesize artificial vibranium, reducing the thprice from 30,000 dollars a gram, to 3 dollars a kilo, This has caused the Wakandan economy to collapse overnight, with riots shaking the capital and calls for the Wakandan king, T’Challa to step down. Chief amongst these calls is Nobel award winning biophysicist Joseph Kenyatta, who i calling for a constitutional monarchy with a new constitution, as well as abandoning Wakanda’s isolationaist stance so that an East African republic may be created. How will T’Challa respond to this?”

*******************************

He doesn’t have to respond.

But, why not?

Apparently the Universe had other plans for this small, yet powerful African nation.

Haven’t you heard? The synthetic vibranium was discovered to have a couple of latent flaws that were somehow overlooked by the Stark-Richards consortium.

It turns out that these two literal super-geniuses (like you!) in their rush to, one: undermine Wakanda’s sovereignty, wealth, independence and two: to bring their artificial product to market — failed to conduct substantive empirical testing on what has turned out to be an inherently unstable pseudo vibranium.

Put simply, the free valence electrons in the synthetic version could not maintain and sustain its atomic orbit/integrity. Another snafu was the stock-market backlash (CRASH) caused by the fake vibranium resulted in record breaking financial losses, thereby bringing both Stark Enterprises and Richards Corp along with their hordes of financial backers to the brink of bankruptcy and financial ruin.

Subsequently, the resilient Wakandan economy currently enjoys a full recovery, along with an increased demand for vibranium, now at $40K a gram to replace the faulty synthetic product tragically failing on a global scale in electronic consumer, commercial & military industrial components and systems, not to mention the degrading spy/surveillance satellites orbiting the Earth.

T’Challa’s kingdom, prestige, honor and political base are fully restored.
Rumors about his impending marriage to Storm, a senior member of the X-MEN, have been confirmed by Wakandan press releases. An African mutual defense treaty with Wakanda’s neighbors is in its early development stages. All is going very well for the Black Panther, the sage Wakandan monarch and his people.

Tony Stark & Reed Richards are both facing civil litigation class-action law suits that will likely tie them up in court for the next 20 years.

Interesting. However, you can easily get high rates of growth starting off of a very low base, which is where Africa is now. You can never just simply extraplote this growth rates into the future. they are unlikely to last.

Africa has always had a lot of potential. There are the vast mineral deposits in the Congo and elsewhere. The Ivory Coast has great cocoa plantations ever since the cocoa tree was imported from South America during the Age of Discovery and Slavery.

However, the problem is the Africans themselves. They were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Since the Europeans left, Africa has slid backwards, unable to maintain what the Europeans created.

Africa is highly tribal and their nation-states, imposed by the Europeans, barely work. Strong man dicatators have taken over in most states and have imposed socialist bureaucratic governments. Look at what Mugabe did to Zimbabwea. Most of the people are loyal to their tribes, not the state.

The dictators spend much of the country’s wealth on building grandiose capital cities, with modern airports and modern center city areas. Meanwhile, the rest of the country is in shambles. Even Bulanik seems to be fooled by the lavish capital cities, surrounded by much vaster slums.

The Africans themselves produce mainly bureaucracy. Most college educated Africans go into the govenment, where they are expected to provide favors to their extended families. Corruption, by Western standards, is completely embedded into the system.

The Africans themselves are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. Africa has been dominated by Europeans, and now the Chinese are coming in. I know the Chinese have a low opinion of blacks, so it will be interesting how it plays out.

I see no scenario in which any group of African nations rises to superpower status in anyforeseeable future.

Your Wiki link was interesting, and pointed to some current high rates of economic growth. However, even it did not indicate any thing as preposterous as a SuperPower Africa.

“You can never just simply extraplote this growth rates into the future. they are unlikely to last.”

You mean like in USA? With several depressions and slumps in its record? What was the growth rate in USA last year? Oh, well…

“They were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Since the Europeans left, Africa has slid backwards, unable to maintain what the Europeans created.”

They were primitive? You mean unlike europeans out of whom majority could not read or write, who usually lived well below the poverty line, who had famines every now and then in 1800’s etc.?

Yes, they have had hard time to maintain such a rate of slavery and opression, but they try, my friend, they try. It is hard, though, without the european know how on opression. It is kind amateurish now but lucky for them, there are european, american and chinese intelligence people, soldiers, sorry advisors, and big businesses helping them to maintain the opression leves at some kind of standard.

“Africa is highly tribal and their nation-states, imposed by the Europeans, barely work.”

You are right and that is why you have all these ethnic conflicts falring up inside those european imposed un-natural states.

“Strong man dicatators have taken over in most states and have imposed socialist bureaucratic governments”.

Name one African country that is socialist. And those strong men have some backing. Example. Just recently the military took over in Mali because the government was not doing enough to deal with the tuareg rebels in north. You know why those tuaregs are fighting? Their land has uranium. Guess who are after that? Yeap…

“The dictators spend much of the country’s wealth on building grandiose capital cities, with modern airports and modern center city areas.”

Noup. The dictators hide most of their nations wealth into secret bank accounts i Switzerland, Lichtenstein and Caribian island banks. As for building modern airports and cities, you mean like USA did in 1950’s and 60’s and 70’s and…

“The Africans themselves produce mainly bureaucracy. Most college educated Africans go into the govenment, where they are expected to provide favors to their extended families. Corruption, by Western standards, is completely embedded into the system.”

Those bureacracies were created by europeans during colonial times. They were created to control the population and still do. Nepotism was also a handy tool used by the european minority to conquer and divide and they used it from Africa to India. When it is possible to feed your family by working in the bureacracy, that is where you aim to get in. Once in, you are sipposed to do favors for your bosses and help your own clients. That is called clientism, a nice system, which was also the governing system of Rome. And speaking about bureacracies, isn’t it weird that you guys always complain about the Big Government in USA?

As for the corruption, that is pretty funny coming from a guy who lives in a land where dozen banks stole 770 billion dollars from taxpayers with the help of the government. Or where a war was kept on going for the benefit of private companies for ten years. Nice.

“I see no scenario in which any group of African nations rises to superpower status in anyforeseeable future.”

That is because you have a bit naive and short view of history. Egypt was a super power for couple thousand years. How long USA has been one? A hundred, 120 yrs? Not that long in history.

“The Africans themselves are not exactly the sharpest knives in the drawer. Africa has been dominated by Europeans, and now the Chinese are coming in. I know the Chinese have a low opinion of blacks, so it will be interesting how it plays out.”

That is true, that is why they do not use knives anymore but assault rifles.

“Africa has been dominated by Europeans”

Right, and yet you claim that africans have caused their problems, this despite of your fact that Africa has been dominated by Europe. So which way it is? Did the europeans dominate africans or are the africans the cause of their plight?

“now the Chinese are coming in”

Well, according the recent studies and findings it is possible that chinese merchants have been coming in since 1300’s but who cares.

I originally just wanted to comment on SatanForce’s statement about the Africa SuperPower. Contrary to what it may seem, I really have NO INTEREST IN AFRICA. So this will be my last go round on this topic; just so everyone knows, if you respond to this, I won’t be responding back, so save your typing fingers.

You do realise that all those countries are democracies There are still many strongman governments in Africa, whether they are officially called “democracies” or not. I don’t democracy has really taken hold yet in Africa, it’s counter to their tribal mentality.

were primitive until Europeans came to colonize. Most of subSaharan Africa was preliterate before the coming of Europeans. That does not include those areas where Islam was introduced or those along the Nile Valley.

The Ashanti became an empire only after they encountered Europeans and obtained firearms in exchange for slaves and ivory.

Other commenters referred to battles in the 1800’s between Africans and Europeans. This is again, after the coming of the Europeans.

I see little to change in my original comment. That’s it – I’m done with this Africa thread. You can go and talk amongst yourselves, now.

a hobby…not the hobby; really an interest of mine, not my only interest. Would you find it odd that some people have an interest in watching football? Would that mean that’s all they do? Think first next time, JT.

Nubians in present day southern Sudan had their own alphabet and writing already in 100 AD, perhaps even before. Your great great great great great great grand parents did not even know how to read or write. At that time their kingdom was well below Sahara. Around 700 Bc their empire consisted whole of Nubia, Kush, from Meroe to the Libanon in middle east. Burns your behind, doesn’t it?

But never mind the alphabets. You do know that other civilizations, like the incas, used totally different kind of symbol system as a means to communicate, that is to “write” without using letters? You did not know that? Oh my oh my…

“This has led to creation of specialized agencies to handle the work of urban housing by acquiring assistance from the World Bank and UN to implement national or city-based housing-related projects. It sounds good, doesn’t it —- but do these initiatives work without the political will and leadership to carry-through on commitments? ”

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The mere mention of the World Bank and the UN, for me, conjures up nasty images of western corruption – both financial and political. I don’t like or trust either of these institutions.The solutions to housing the poor, for example imo, should come from innovative grass-root leaders, scholars and thinkers that are FROM the problem areas. We already have a ton of examples why the IMF, WB, WTO and UN solutions don’t/won’t work. Greed, corruption and the desire for control/power/hegemony.

The best outcome is to enable, empower and allow the indigenous populations to solve their own issues. There are some GREAT forward thinking young (and old) African minds already at work, seeking/offering long term plans and solutions for Africa’s people.

———

BTW, I love the idea of bottle housing! If waste is used to produce and construct useful/beneficial products – everyone wins!

“There is that noble practice of….female genital mutilation. The one the West couldn’t come up with.”

Ok, buddy, you asked for it. And I assume you mean whites with the term West?

Ok. Lets see. Every one knows what it was like in the medieval times so just to spare some space here and abagonds nerves I bring you the western stuff since 1500’s.

Religious wars from 1500’s up untill 1600’s in the continent and up to 1990’s in Northern Ireland. The religious wars in France in 1500’s claimed up to 200 000 victims, some estimates are even higher. Mutilation was not only typical, it was the usual method of getting rid of the opponents.

30yrs war (1621-48) by the way was the most destructive event to face Europe up till that time and before Napoleons wars, WW1 and WW2. That was destruction on a biblical scale, so much so that northern Germany was reduced form a green agricultural land into a barren desolet waste land populated by flys only, as one soldier once wrote. Normal practises in that war were: skinning, slaughtering, burning, mass lynching, torture on massive scale and some few thousand witch burnings to go along. Swedes (and finns among them) invented a swedish drink. They poured urine and such into someone untill his stomach was totally bloated and after that they jumped up and down on that individuals stomach, untill it bursted open or internally. Nice, huh?

Holy roman inquistion is well known but its counter part Spanish inquisition (which was independent organ working under the Spanish royalty) was much more original. They had a massive spike, three feet high, widening at the base, into which women were lowered so that the spike penetrated their private parts and lowered still untill women were ripped apart. The famous burining at the stake was considered as an act of mercy since it shortened the time spent in the purgatory. So they tried to burn the victims as slowly as possible for the joy of their ideology. And this went on for few hundred years totally among the westeners.

If we move into USA and genital mutilation, when the colorado volunteers massacred the peaceful natives in Sand Creek, they took some souveniers. They made money pouches from the testicle sacks of the dead natives, pinned male genitals into their hats as trophies and also female genitals, they had legs, thigs, breasts and heads on spikes as trophies as well as killed native children. These were shown to a white publuc on a victory parade held later and received a great joy and jubilation among the white population.

And of course, there were the lynchings of the blacks in which genital mutilation was fairly common feature. And these went on at least untill 1930’s in your beloved US of A.

And of course there are other snappy methods of mutilationa and mayhem that those africans never came up: the flame throwers which made their debut at the battle of Verdun in 1916 and poison gas used as weapon, machine gun which helped the britts to mow down thousands of natives in Sudan early 1900’s. Even Winston Churchill who was at present was impressed when they lost only few men and the natives lost thousands in few hours.

And one thing those africans never came up with was that A bomb. Now that is some serious destructive bisnes right there.

@bulanik: For all my knowledge this old custom is very rare in sub Saharan Africa but more common in the southern Sahara area, around Sudan, Tshad, and northern Ethopia and Somalia etc. in the east. I have no knowledge opf this custom among the central african people. I might be wrong.

This cutting Africa into two parts divided by Sahara is funny since Sahara was steppe and savanna until few thousand years ago. Also rivers like Nile and coastal traffic had not stopped going trough or around that area. Timbuktu is a fine example of how much there used to be traffic across the Sahara during centuries.

I refer at times to sub sahara Africa to define a cultural genius that came from there that can be found all over sub sahara Africa, and, is differant from the culture that is in north of the Sahara Africa (although traces of it are in north Africa also, but, there is a deep Arab influence also up there).

Where there are huge cultural differances from tribe to tribe, area to area, there is a cultural expresion that have similar properties that is the gift that sub Sahara Africa has given the world

Talk about the broken Africa concept and how people outside of Africa look at Africans, here is a excerpt from Che Guevara’s diary. wow, it is pretty shallow :

On July 17, 1952, age 24, in his personal diary, Che Guevara wrote[1]: “The blacks, those magnificent examples of the African race who have conserved their racial purity by a lack of affinity with washing, have seen their patch invaded by a different kind of slave: The Portuguese. These two races now share a common experience, fraught with bickering and squabbling. Discrimination, and poverty unite them in a daily battle for survival but their different attitudes to life separate them completely: the black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead, even independently, of his own individual aspirations

I have to confess, one of my biggest dreams is to visit a country in Africa , like Gana, Angola, Kenya, Senegal.

I dont know if I will ever be able to do that, but, I would love to go to one of the modern cities, stay in a nice hotel and be able to see as much music as posible since music and dance is a tremendous live experiance that have a big affect on me. Especialy the state folkloric danca and drummers. Ways to see the traditions and histories.

Id really like to find out the true Africa instead of the media Africa

Have you ever heard of Aminata Traore? She summed up your many interrogations in one single question: what kind of development do we (Africans) want for of Africa?
In an interview she was asked: “What does it take to give Africans a dignified life?”
Her answer:

In the first place it takes self respect and a belief in our own capabilities. Real development needs the fertile basis of a lively culture that constantly feeds new solutions. (…)
Real development should also be based on a culture that found the right balance with the surrounding environment. Because every culture primarily is a transformation of the earth, the forests and the soil. Economics, ecology and culture are the three pillars that carry a society. From the moment that triangle is balanced, we can build a society that no longer robs people from their own dignity, knowledge and dreams. Then we can make a future for our own people. If we could have defined for ourselves what democracy is made of, we would have found ways to question and sanction our leaders for example. Because when the moral point of view is shared, the powerful are obliged to listen to the powerless.

the black is indolent and fanciful, he spends his money on frivolity and drink; the European comes from a tradition of working and saving which follows him to this corner of America and drives him to get ahead, even independently, of his own individual aspirations

Ya see – if duma$$ Che Guevara had the low down on blacks. A race realist like me couln’t said it any better. This is a pretty typical international-wide opnion of blacks.

If we move into USA and genital mutilation, when the colorado volunteers massacred the peaceful natives in Sand Creek, they took some souveniers. They made money pouches from the testicle sacks of the dead natives, pinned male genitals into their hats as trophies and also female genitals, they had legs, thigs, breasts and heads on spikes as trophies as well as killed native children. These were shown to a white publuc on a victory parade held later and received a great joy and jubilation among the white population.

Truth spoken. Also, the scrotal sacks of native men, and the breasts of native women, would be dried and cured, and used as tobacco pouches and black-powder (for guns) pouches.

White europeans (the French, specifically) are the ones who originally engaged in the practice of scalping – they called it ‘counting coup’.

And what did he (Che Guevara) do? Did he went on bashing blacks, did he went on stating that blacks are less than human, that they do not deserve the same rights as whites, that blacks are not equal with whites? Did he say that black cubans are less cubans than white cubans? Was he burning crosses and killing blacks for fun?

It was also pretty common practise among the celts to take the heads of their enemies. It was called “taking beards”. This habbit was practised at least till late roman times and perhaps even till later.

Also let us not forget the romans, those civilized white heros of the past: in one 107 days lasting games given by emperor Trajanus some 30 000 people were killed in Colosseum alone. That is fed to the beasts, killed by any other means, and of course, killed by each other. All this for the great amusement of the audience.

In 1964, Che Guevara then denounced the United States policy towards their black population, stating:

“Those who kill their own children and discriminate daily against them because of the color of their skin; those who let the murderers of blacks remain free, protecting them, and furthermore punishing the black population because they demand their legitimate rights as free men—how can those who do this consider themselves guardians of freedom worldwide?”

I mean that is an important question for Africa, do you want just any white man coming in…a white man like Guevara ? Who demonstrates without a doubt that he is racist to the core calling Africans frivilous and saying they smell bad but can mouth the right things about what is wrong with America ?

After that passage in his diary, I wouldnt cut Che Guevara any slack what so ever…

Bulanik…Gueveras trips to Africa were sponsered by the Soviet Union, since they were sponsoring Cuba. They were everybit and more involved with trying to spread their flawed ideaology over the globe as the USA, and Africa was caught right in the middle of both of these ideologies

Seriously, if any person can read what Guevera said about Africans, and still think he was some noble fighter for justice and equality and really have the interests of black people in his heart…i have to question their logic

It is absolutly plain and clear that Guevera, a blatent racist , is as bad for Africa as any colonial power out there. He is as guilty as any other power that came into Africa to exploit it and start wars…

“Ya see – if duma$$ Che Guevara had the low down on blacks. A race realist like me couln’t said it any better.”

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You and your brethren ought to quit with the phony pretense and just come out of the closet. “Race Realist” is purely a PC way of saying REAL RACIST. Racism (and racists) haven’t changed. Only the language/lexicon has.

Also, if Che Guevara is a “duma$$,” comparatively speaking that makes you (and other real racists) extraordinarily stupid/deluded duma$$es. A trait that you persist on continually showing the world. Despite the grievous offense you bring to my nostrils, I fully understand why Abagond permits your stinking presence to foul up the air in here.

Bulanik , this is the Broken Africa thread. I already said they both were dirty…does that rersonate with you at all? Im making posts on other threads, I suggest you read them.

You were inspired enough by Gueveras scripted words , prepared as his propaganda page to defend them brought in by Linda, against his emotional entry into his diary that reveals he is a blatent racist , which seems to mean nothing to you.

You absolutly cannont discuss broken Africa seriously without examining all the sides who were involved breaking it, and , Guevera, a man who personaly brought his flawed idealogy, who reveals himself to be a racist with a very low opinion of Africa,started armed revolutions , death and destruction in Africa, is as guilty as the USA and all the colonising powers to the factors that contribure to the things that are ailing some of the African countries today. He is part of the whole truth about broken Africa

Yet you fail to acknowledge that,and , are attacking me, have mischaractorised me right along the way since the other thread . . You are trying to shift talking about broken Africa into American racism when Guevara personaly was in Africa promoting death and destruction.

One thing you should know. Communism never was interested in racsim and the civil rights for black people

By the way, Im not like any of the people on here who call Obama a socialist or scream “commie” at any inteligent solutions

They dont know what real communists are

I do, I have researched the numbers of people eliminated under the flawed ideaology of communism . There was a real reason to fight communism , but not what the dorks you see screaming “commie” coming in here know anything about

When I talk about communism Im not talking anything like what those chumps are railing about

Actualy, what Im really saying is that, all the conflicts, the colonizers, the powers that invaded for riches , the Gueveras backed by Fidel in Cuba with Soviet support…etc

All these things are what contriburted to the broken Africa stereotye.They were the conflicts that take away the attention from anything good and growing in Africa.That hinder any good growth when they are set into effect.

Because this thread is about the broken Africa stereotype

By the way, relating to Gueveras diary statement, I just am in humble admiration as to what Africans from countries like Gana, Nigera, Kenya, Semagal etc etc have brought to the tavble of civilisation interms of culture , language, foods, etc I could never make a ststement like his nor ever understand it

“Sam, you do know that some of Guevaras solderscomplained of his racism?

You do know that the Congolease communists kicked Guevara out because he was too radicle in his methods ?

You do know that a bunch of black scholars has condemned Castros Cuba as racist

You do know that Fidel and Guevara executed more poeple than the militarry dictaroships of Cile, Argentin and Brazil put together?”

No I don’t but I do know that he was a real hero for millions who fought against western imperialism in the Third world.

No I don’t but I do know that he was too radical for Castro too.

Who are these black scholars? Name few, thank you.

No I do not because that is a lie. Those three dictatorships killed many more thousands than Castro and his ilk ever did.

The diary you so eagerly quote was written when Guevara was a young amn still looking what to do with his life. At that time he was not a communist nor guerilla, nor anything else than a young middle class kid from Argentina driving around the continent with his friend on motorcycles.

Let me get this very clear to you. I don’t like Che or Castro or soviet or any kind of communism. Why? I lived my whole life few miles from the USSR. I can assure you that I know hell of a lot about USSR than you will ever know. And that includes communism, you know, the real deal, Red Army, red ruskies and all that, not the one you read in the books.

As for Africa, this thread is not about BROKEN Africa per sé but the stereotype of it, the one you so eagerly promote here. If you were alert and understud the post you would realise that in reality there is not that Broken Africa you suscribe for. It is a myth promoted by western propaganda and judging from you, it has worked just fine. There is no lost cintinent raped by communist subversives: that is the CIA vision of it.

You claim that Che Guevara, who only visited Africa, and communists are responsible for the stereotype of Broken Africa. I wonder how you get your head around that. It is the western media which has created that myth. Not communist propaganda. If you look at their own myth, Africa is a place were happy balck people hold hands and sing and dance with Lenin smiling at them, and also a continent raped by the mean american tycoon. That was their myth.

Broken Africa is a western idea of a continent that can not handle itself because of its ow people.

Sam , did you read what I said ? You are putting words in my mouth. These conflicts and the exploiting of Africa that we have all talked about, is one of the reasons for the broken Africa stereotype and I said that right above, are you reading ?

Bulanik, I wrote that you were “inspired” to defend Guevara’s words inspite of seeing he is a blatent racist ( dont buy your excuse, Sam).

You are getting on your motorbike and spinning wheels knocking up a lot of dust to try to point out to everyone that I am for some reason not qualified to post about these things or I might be a racist.You are doing that on the other thread…go right ahead, maybe after spinning your wheels enough and kick up enough dust you might find something that sticks…but you are going to have a lot of dust and smoke in your eyes

According to various reports and investigations 1,200–3,200 people were killed, up to 80,000 were interned, and up to 30,000 were tortured by his regime including women and children.[6][7][8] Under the influence of the free market-oriented

Bulanik, excuse me, Ive been acused of lies by Sam, do I have any right to prove he is dead wrong….about “inspiration” ive answered twice

Sam here is Brazil “According to a government-sponsored truth and reconciliation commission in 2007, by the end of the 21 years of dictatorship there were 339 documented cases of government-sponsored political assassinations or disappearances. More were interrogated, tortured, and jailed ”

The point we are making about Africans and how this relates to all this, Guevara, represents , along with the colonisers, the USA cold war polocies etc, the real reasons Africa had conflicts that gave people stereotypes of Africa is all conflicts and violence…

(gees Sam, millions of people voted for Bush also, whta does tht tell you? Millions and millions of people can make wrongt choices, millions and millions of people hate them both alsoe

“BR
Sorry , Linda, Guevara’s racsim is blatent in his statement about Africans no matter what he states about Americans
If that is the kind of white man you think is fine to look to for inspiration..becaue he can mouth something about the USA who was his sworn enemy, who would like to find their weakness ?”

Linda says,

I truly hold no white man up as an inspiration, least of all Che Guevara…

I am not sure at what point he made his statement about “blacks being indolent and frivolous” (before or after Congo) but it doesn’t matter…

he was dedicated to his cause and he viewed the Congo as another frontier to conquer (just like European adventurers before him) ….he was also told by the Egyptians not to go to the Congo and interfere, but he did it anyway and like his predecessors before him, he thought he could “tame the natives”..he lost that bet.

“BR But fundimentaly he looks down on Africans ?”

Linda says,

Guevara was no different than the average “white” north American or South American, who thinks they are better than anyone with dark skin.

the average person doesn’t reveal their true feelings when it comes to race anyway.

thanks to the internet, my white coworker who sits next to me all day, can safely go onto a blog forum and call black people the N-word, while telling me about her day and her family (true story)

I put up Guevara’s quote about “race in America” as a balance to the previous quote and as you stated, megalomaniacs (pick any country with money and an agenda with military might to back it up) tend to talk out of both sides of their mouths to further their causes….

I re-read my previous post and your subsequent reply, and I believe we may have a misunderstanding.

IMHO, I think one doesn’t have to be African oneself to appreciate the seriousness, the complexities, beauty and supreme importance of Africa’s development by Africans.

I did not imply anything like that.
Quite the contrary: I like how your posts develop actual analysis and it’s obvious that, unlike many commenters, you go through the trouble of researching the issues that you write about.
My Aminata Traore reference was just to bring to your attention a woman whose thoughts on development go in the sense of your own reflection.

Images are power, that is why the System uses them more and more with more and more sophistication. Africa and africans in the images are part of that use of power trough images and visual means.

Africans are smiling and happy only when a white celebrity comes to their village and hands out some relief. Then they dance and clap their hands and sing their tribal songs for the great white saviour. During other times they are just trying to survive famine, wars, mass murders, genocides, aids, flies in their eyes, tuberculosis, crockodiles and hippos, elephants on rampage, robbers, drunken men in armed gangs looting villages at random, warriors from the neighbouring tribe, islamic jihadists, mercenaries paid by angry arabs, couple Al Qaida guys here and there, dictators and strongmen, unhealthy food full of flies and maggots, dirty water, cholera, malaria, huts built from cow manure, smoking stoves and broken sandals. That is, if you believe what you see in western media.

That is why women today see few hundred photoshopped unrealistic images of the woman in magazines, commercials and practically everywhere, every day. Hundred years ago average woman saw perhaps a 100 women during her lifetime, more if she lived in a city but at most few thousand. Today, if you are living in a big city and heavy user of the media, you will see few thousand of such images a day. Why? To make you feel frustrated of yourself so that would trigger a shopping spree. US marketeers found this out already in 1940’s.

I did that same sort of Google experiment with Luanda. If you search CNN or the New York Times for images of Luanda, the first pictures that come up are those of its slums. If you search the whole Internet, the first pictures that come up are beautiful pictures of the centre city:

Im a person who has never been to Africa, and, it is one of those dreams I have…I would love to know where some countries that have powerful drum and dance cultures, have folklorico national drum dance companies , and be able to stay at a nice hotel…and if its on a beach that has some small waves to swimn in….

Any reccomdations from people who live there or know ?

Actualy, Bulanik, you asked me who I dig from Senegal…I love the drum record by Dou Dou Rose, you can hear the roots of Cuban mambo gua gua co, and samba, and funk and jazz…I was into those AFrican folkways records from a long time ago, Fon Ton Fron drumming, Congo ( I have a record now I listen to), Masai, Kikuyu, Gana drumming, Nigeria

You know, Im one of those people who believe very deeply in the genius of sub Sahara Africa, and in that context, I really do beleive you can look there as the place that came certain concepts of culture, music and dance that have a similar developement, the same way as we recognise Europe classical music , it comes from various countries but in a similar context. And those concepts have affected the world in a big way

Try talking to people from the various countries in Africa. You will get myriad information about politics, societies etc. Many would be surprised at the disparities between what they tell you and what the white media tells you. I am speaking in general, society at large, not anyone in particular, therein lies the problem. Sure some of these countries have problems in varying degrees but what country doesn’t? For example; if you are homeless and starving in North America, that makes that society morally bankrupt as it is put forward as a 1st world country(ies). What is their excuse? They should apply all this charitable work to their own country and clean up their own back yards instead of fomenting propaganda against other countries. But then again they would have to admit their wickedness towards their fellow countrymen both currently and historically. I think they concentrate on these countries and their travails to show that blacks inferiority, this appears to be on a continuum when taken in its’ totality, via media etc. Fools like these race realist have taken to using these images to prove blacks inability to run things and clinging to their white privileges. If I were paranoid, I would think there was a conspiracy of a sort to this end. I don’t credit them with enough intelligence for this, they take a ‘Let the chips fall where they may’ approach.

Its hard to find images of Africans that gets into their humanity, and, the value of their culture. Its all suffering and they are in the distance.

It starts becoming ammunition for what ever agenda wants to use it.

I remember seeing a really off the radar documentary of a tribe from northern Uganda, the part that was more affected by violence, with some of the children had been child solders and others had lost loved ones.

The young kids were getting ready to go down to a big city to compete in a cultural music and dance festival. It showed the teachers come in and demonstrate the dances and musics, and, the kids had seperate interviews about their experiances. They went down to the competition and you could see that through their participation and victory in two of the catagories , a tremendous pride and emotion. One girl , who seemed to have the saddest look, came all alive while dancing with the most incredible expresion of joy on her face, she later said when she is dancing, she forgets all her problems…and the drumming and dancing was wonderful

It was just a moving documentary that got deeper into these peoples humanity and struglle and joy through artistic expresion…I was floored…and you just dont get to see that kind of stuff on tv that often

Enough !! Its over, this phony charade about intelligence tests that are controversial anyway belongs in the trash. They dont cover real ways to survice in life like intuition and improvisation. Bell curves, IQ exames, they are useless in judging real genius.

There is more black American genius at the highest level in the world you can find in this youtube , than you could shake a stick at the whole ivy league. These gentleman have raised the bar in what they do to an unbeleivable hight and their work will be studied in 100 years as the defining thinkers of this time , 1965…

I cant listen anymore to white insecure no nothings who dont know how to difine real genius if it was sitting on their nose .

Any one who question black American intelligence or genius, just tell me what these gentlemen are doing here if you can

Actualy, Im going to tie this in with this thread…with out the cultural concepts that came from certain areas of Africa, this wouldnt have existed….

And, these concepts are never really addressed or talked about with any depth. With any notion how much they have dominated much of the worlds popular music. Any where there is the African diaspora, there are these concepts that entered the popular musics of where African slaves were brought, and absolutly took over the type of beat and dance that each of the countries turned into their popular grooves and dance crazes , of course mixing with the culture of each area they arrived at.

and, the “broken Africa stereo type” has totaly buried any real look at these incredible concepts that have shaped cultures in various places

The humanity and culture are ovelooked to focus more on misery , death and destruction.

Did you know they have a drum that stretches one gut over the bottom head, so the drum buzzes as you hit it….it is the first snare drum. I thought snare drum concepts came from Europe….wrong

When I think of Congo, I think of these musicians and the concepts they are dealing with, I see their humanity and creativity and artistic expression. These wars and conflicts dont define the people there, the culture and art defines them

Another side-effect of the stereotype.
– If you happen to be African, live in a Western country, are articulate, educated, has travelled a lot i.e. don’t correspond to most stereotypes people have of African people, it either mean your parents were diplomats or are corrupt politicians who feed off the poorest of their country.
– You can’t and don’t know much about your history, your culture, your continent because let’s face it, you’re too famished to think about knowledge. African people cannot write plausible and objective facts about themselves: they don’t even have schools.
– If you happen to speak any European languages without the (awful and generic) African accent, it means you went to a private French, Belgium, American or British school in your country
– All African people have protuberant abdomen (a Chinese friend from Mauritius told me that after stressing on the fact that she isn’t African – I asked her why her country was a member of the African Union then)
– Do you live with the lions or in the trees? (not kidding, I was asked this question a couple of times, years ago in France – Same thing happened to my Malagasy friend from Indian descent and another West African friend)
– If you have a light skin, it means you must have had a white or an Arab ancestor.
– “Hakuna Matata! Do you speak swahili?” (Huge eyeroll)

I am not saying that Africa isn’t poor. It is indeed and a lot remains to do, first of all by assuring food security. Yet, Africa isn’t only the dying and begging kids, the dishevelled women, the desert, the armed conflicts and…. the safaris.

I think Sahel is the area on the southern edge of the Sahara proper. I think it does not cover more than that.

As for sub-Saharan Africa, the funny thing is that originally it was geographical term: it described the difference between the Sahara region and area north of Sahara (sub tropics) and the areas south of them. the savannah etc., the climate etc.

BUT what has happened is that racists have hijacked this term too as a cultural and racial divide. This is not an accident. This idea, like others such, come from few racist think tanks which replace the meaning of a word and then begin to use it as their own. This is an old trick used by several ideologies in the past, like the Nazis or communists.

what has happened is that racists have hijacked this term too as a cultural and racial divide. This is not an accident.

I believe it dates back to the colonial era. Only then did the Sahara (which historically has always been a crossroad) become this somewhat airtight frontier between “white” and “black” Africa.
Notice how this frontier conveniently ceased to exist every time the colonizer summoned the infamous “arab influences” to explain any sign of “civilization” observed in the southern part of the continent…
Go figure.

I just talk about Africa and for me that covers anything south of Mediterannean. From Morocco to Capetown.

@dahoman X:

I think the racist sub Saharan Africa is quite recent term. I am not certain though.

In colonial times they used very handy term the Darkest Africa. Thus they implied an area whithout any light=intelligence and culture=civilization and also the dark skinned inhabitants. Thus white (light) people were bringing light o the darkness when they conquered it. Nice ideological twist.

What made Africa split into non Black Africa, North Africa and land south of the Sahara is Black Africa?. So strange. I just don’t get that at all because I usually think of Africa as an continent where Blacks descended from like how Caucasians descended from Europe.
@Abagond
Yeah the words Sub Saharan Africa makes my skin crawl as well because the term doesn’t make sense to me at all. What in the world is that term supposed to mean except for the fact that it is the south of the Sahara deser?

All people come from Africa. That is the scientifical fact. The present day europeans are decendants of the people who came from Africa tens of thousands of years ago. So there is no humanbeing who has originated elsewhere. If one wants to be a bit cheeky one can say: biologically we are all Africans. That is also the one thing racists try to hide and do their best to discredit. But that is a fact. So there are no caucasians at all. There is only one humanrace on this planet.

Gentically you and I are more closer than a guy from Mali is to a guy from Mozambique. There are bigger genetical differences inside Africa than in all the rest of the world. That is because the rest of us are the decendants from those who left Africa tens of thousands of years ago.

In colonial times they used very handy term the Darkest Africa. Thus they implied an area whithout any light=intelligence and culture=civilization and also the dark skinned inhabitants. Thus white (light) people were bringing light o the darkness when they conquered it.

Yeah, Africa is often referred as “the dark continent”. All those meanings are implied here.
Joseph Conrad’s title “Heart of Darkness”, literally the tale of a journey to the heart of Africa, also comes to mind.

I do not know if he ever visited Congo himself. In the book the structure is three dimensional: steamboat travel along the Thames “up the river into the heart of darkness”, in the narrative on a steamboat along the Congo River “into to the heart of darkness” and in the minds of the carachters “into the heart of darkness”.

If he did visit Belgian Congo we know where he got his nightmarish storyline but if he did not, he obviously knew something about what was going on in there.

Eight and a half years before writing the book, Conrad had gone to serve as the captain of a Congo steamer. On arriving in the Congo, he found his steamer damaged and under repair. He became sick and returned to Europe before serving as captain.

There is a distinct cultural differance between sub Sahara Africa and North Africa.Some one in here had an argument with me a long time ago, I was telling him there is a distinctive cultural way that drums are played and the dances are done , that seperate sub Sahara Africa from North Africa. I proceeded to bring in youtubes from various areas of sub Sahara Africa with very similar concepts in drumming and dancing. Let me make it clear that Im absolutly not saying all the drumming and dancing are the same. Its the basic pollyrhythmic concepts that are the same. The same way we can say Europe evolved harmony and classical music symphonies even though they are from differant countries that speak differant languages but Europe is where they evolved certain harmonic concepts. In that context you can say sub Sahara Africa evolved certain musical concepts.Ill be happy to bring in those youtubes again if anyone has any doubt that you cant quantify certain concepts of culture from sub Sahar Africa

Recently Ive been listening to a cd from Dudu Rose from Senegal. The drumming concepts are distinctive and recognisable. I have a record from the Congo also. It has very distintive charactoristics but the pollyrhythmic call responce is the same as Senegal. I saw an in depth docu of Uganda recently and some children preparing for a music fest with their drumming and dancing, distinct beats and dances but same concepts as the Congo and Senegal. I have youtubes of the same concepts from kids playing in Kenya, I think they are Kikuyu, you can look at Watusi cerimonies, Zulu cerimonies, I can go on and on and bring in examples. Besides Gnawa in Moroco, Id like to see some North African drumming and dancing that uses these same kind of pollyrhythmic , call responce, pelvic thrust, fast shuffle steps. Im sure they exist, but, Im not aware of them, I dont think north Egypt, Algeria, Tunisia, Moroco except for Gnawa, have those concepts as the dominant factor in their musical culture. Maybe Sudan and Ethiopia have some forms of the drumming, for sure you can really hear mixtures of both the Arab concepts and the sub Sahara drum dance concepts.

As equaly frightening as outsiders thinking sub Sahara Africa is some horrible place compared to North Africa, would be denying the genius that is from the culture of sub Sahara Africa. That is extremly important to recognise the cultural gifts to the world that black sub Sahara Africa has been responsible for

To deny this genius fits right in with the broken Africa sterotype, especialy the broken black Africa stereotype

@B.R.
I agree. And why did they separate ”North Africa” from Sub Saharan Africa when both places are in Africa? If all the Blacks came from Sub Saharan Africa, how come supermodel Iman is from Somalia and Somalia is NOT in ”Sub Saharan Africa”. Iman is Black! Somalia is in North Central Africa. That Sub Saharan crap that is perpentrated in History and Geography is a lie. I think they split Africa in two to discredit Africa’s role in civilization and History.
No wonder Egypt is in ”North Africa”, because they weren’t ”Blacks” and couldn’t have possibly have built such an empire! I believe some of the Pharoahs were Black, yes but this foolishness has to stop. Blacks have contributed much to civilization and inventions as much as East Indians, Chinese, Europeans and others.

Adeen, Im in full agreement about any attemt to paint any part of Africa as less than or more backwards. And, I think the cultrual aspects Im talking aboiut dont address color in the sence that North Africa has a wide range of color.

I want to make it clear that I am addressing cultural concepts that most certainly came out of black Africans who have differant culturual concepts from Arabs that took over North Africa

And these cultural concepts are distinctive and can be quantified.

In North Africa, I suggest that there is a mixture of these concepts but the Arab concepts are more in effect in North Africa

Any body who knows a little bit about the various drum/dance concepts that dominate the Afro diasporic cultures throughout the Americas, can recognise the roots of those grooves right away in various sub Saharan drum dance cultures and you cant do that with North African musics

Or , please demonstrate it, because I can demonstrate with authority what Im talking about

Also Im not sure about how one minute we are so firm that Africa is a continent of many countries and cultures and the next oh but its all one Africa…

I mean great about ideaologicy thought out intellectual arguments to counter stereotypes and western ignorance about real Africa, but please dont sweep in distnintive cutltrural differances that actualy point out to a genius of cultural value that is quantifiable and distinct from anythng else in the world

here is the gnawa from moroco that I said is more from a groove stanpoint. It is the exception of North Africa

It is obvious that in North Africa because of the Arab conquest that the Arab concepts of music are going to dominate, like I said this is somewhat of a an exception, but you sure can hear a differance from the youtube avove

As I said, Morroco is the country in North Africa that has good examples of the drum principles that come from the south. You have to look at how the dances hook up with the drums to really see the differance with the Morrocon concepts versus say concept you might find in Nigeria. Of course influences were going back and forth. Swahili had Arab influcence. Nigeria has some of the population muslim.

Well, the Sahara was a greater barrier than the Mediterranean Sea, which with ships and all was rather a way things could be transported, even the fauna and flora of Super-Saharan Africa have more in common with southern Europe than with Sub-Saharan Africa. The Islamic conquest really changed the way Europeans saw (North) Africans. Before that, that part of Africa was not seen as intrinsically different from the European parts and islands of the Mediterranean.

Absolutly, Teddy, that is my point, there are concepts of life and how to aproach life that come from the middle of Africa down towards the south. Was it the Bantu migration ? I dont know or really think so, I think some of these drum dance concpets go back a long long time.

And, I think the fact that you can see the power in the Afro diasporic concepts, and how they absoutly dominate any country that brought slaves from the culture above, the Mali drumming, for example.

It is a power, a genius, it shouldnt be hidden behind other cultures like the Arab cultures, and the mixtures of those concepts,those are fantastic also, really fantastic. But these principles of life , and living, filtered sometimes through drumming /dancing, the inclination to use these drums and dances to turn off the thinking brain and get in touch with the intuition, need to be examined on their own terms for exacty what they represent and represent alone.

Especialy in light of scientific discoveries that prove that is what is happening in our everyday life anyway

It is that reason that I say there are instances that we can look at culture from sub Sahara Africa…I totaly agree that any point of veiw that choose to look at sub Sahara Africa as sub or worse off, or equal to misery is ridiculas. And again, like in the Congo, if you really begin to understand the humanity of the people, the contriburion their culture has made on the world, those stereotypes couldnt kick in

We have to make the culture as a focal part of what is incredible about all of Africa

And, I think the fact that you can see the power in the Afro diasporic concepts, and how they absoutly dominate any country that brought slaves from the culture above, the Mali drumming, for example (should continue on to say ) is a tremendous example of that power and genuius. Look how they groove the beat into the ground .

Abagond actually commented Achebe’s criticism of Conrad, but his post did not include a link to Achebe’s original article which, IMHO, is pertinent to the present thread. This article also further explores the 2 allegories mentioned by Sam: the one regarding the parallel Thames/Congo, and the one about the darkness inside Kurtz’ (the White man’s) heart.

@ Adeen
Somalia is located in East Africa and is considered part of sub Saharan Africa.

@ B.R.
For some weird reason, you seem to infer from my post that:
1) I believe there is no difference between Northern and Southern Africa
2) I imply some kind of inferiority of the Southern part
3) I’m trying to hide it by stressing the “Arab” influence
If you actually read this in my comment, please re-read it. It is not what I wrote.
Northern Africa and Southern Africa have their own identities (notice the plural. None is monolithic). Yes, the Northern part, while very diverse, is culturally close to the Arabic Peninsula and the Middle East. I don’t deny that.

If you take a plane from Tunis to Lagos you will be shocked by the contrast and will feel like you stepped from a world to another.

But if you, say, travel by caravan from Tunis on the Mediterranean Sea to Lagos in the Gulf of Benin, you will have a very different experience. The transition will feel very progressive and you won’t be able to define a clear cut frontier between these two parts of the continent.

That’s because, contrary to what people commonly believe (see teddy1975’s post above) the people living along both banks of the Sahara have always interacted and influenced each other. They have never let the Sahara become a barrier. Quite the contrary, actually: during the past millennium it has been the place of the most dynamical trade routes of the continent, and of racial and cultural melting-pot.
And when I say they have interacted, when I say melting-pot, I don’t imply that it has always been kumbaya love between North Africa and Southern Africa, or between so-called “white” and “black” Africans (see the racist exactions currently going on in “liberated” Libya, for instance).

Regarding the polyrhythmic concepts.
I’ll have to trust your expertise on this, as I’m utterly illiterate in the matter.
I can appreciate good music though. I can’t really see your YouTube videos (slow connection here), but I recognize some names. Beside you cited Doudou Ndiaye Rose. Good pick.

I have more hope for Africa, than Haiti. However one of the main problem is the government and lack of unity, and initiatives. Africans are very divided. They are still too tribal (IMHO). Then there is the never ending political unrest etc….

If the Africans leaders were serious and there wasn’t all this division going on,then it would move forward in a faster fashion.

I want to put my two cents to counter stereotypes about Africa in general and a few guidelines about how to look at African affairs:

1. As somebody said already, most stereotypes carry some truth with them; the question is, oft, of how can we expurgate them of implicit falsehoods; for example it’s truth that African governments are, in most cases, corrupt, but a) not all of them (I bet that the Botswana Government is one of the world’s most clean in that regard!) and the rest are corrupt in different degrees; b) outside the continent we find also many corrupt governments (in Latin America, South Asia or Eastern Europe, for example) and, therefore it’s false to draw the conclusion that corruption is kind of an African trademark alone;

2. Africa is a very diverse continent as Abagond has pointed out already (possibly the most diverse of them all!); there are many different countries there, and each of them is an unique “human experiment” by itself; you have different ancient histories from different places (from Yoruba kingdoms in one corner to Zulu warriors in another, and many other different narratives in between); you had different colonial powers in different places (English, Spanish, French, Portuguese, German, Belgian, etc) with different impacts (the different “official“ – European – languages” are a lasting testimony of that); you had different colonial settlements in different places (from none or few European settlers in places like Ethiopia, Somalia or Cameron to hundreds of thousands or millions in most Southern Africa countries and Algeria) and therefore you should expect different degrees of “European acculturation” in those places (in Maseru, Lesotho you will find that most native Africans communicate between themselves in a local African idiom most of the time, but in Maputo or Luanda people opt to use Portuguese as their “lingua franca”)

3. The diversity of situations in Africa is also clear in terms of economic development; from small economies as in the Sao Tome e Principe islands to the relatively highly developed economy and infrastructure as in the Republic of South Africa, which consumes more energy per year than highly industrialized countries like Netherlands or Sweden, you find a large spectrum of all different levels of economic development; a curious fact about the perception of long term economic prospects of Africa is that a few years ago the keyword was “afro pessimism” but now some economists start to look at Africa as the next large emerging market after China and India and they cite the present high grow rates in many African countries as an early indication of that; a more sober and balanced view would be to look at African economies as “developing economies” meaning that they are “yet to mature organic systems” that appear now in a yet relatively young phase of their development; as with humans, adulthood will surely follow the young age, but the journey from one point to the other will be a zigzag of advances and setbacks; so it’s life!

4. Diversity is also to be found in the level of economic development inside each African country; you have the striking divide between the urban (more developed and westernized) and the rural (less developed and more traditional); urban settlements show also a divide between their more developed center and their less developed periphery (shanty towns); there are also oft regional differences (for example the southern part of Mozambique is more developed than the northern part; the same can be said about Nigeria); these features characterize all developing countries including the ones in South America and Asia.

5. Each African country is also a diverse place as a consequence of recent history; the borders of most African states – defined by European powers at the begin of the 20th century – encompass a huge variety of ethnic groups (the so called “tribes”); this is sometimes the cause of internal strife and political instability but when properly managed is the foundation upon which a very rich cultural heritage can develop; one of the functions of the state in Africa is to build the nation from the amalgamation of those diverse groups, contrary to 19th century European states which were, for the most part, mono-ethnic; there are, also, some African mono-ethnic states such as Botswana, Lesotho or Swaziland; this kind of diversity implies that most Africans speak at least 2 languages (one African idiom plus the official European idiom…) and oft even 3 (…plus one more African idiom; this is the case in many urban settings where people from different ethnic backgrounds coexist).

6. Last but not least, the reality of African societies is very fluid and what is true now can change tomorrow behind recognition. This is, in fact, what makes many stereotypes not stand to a close scrutiny: the reality they were supposed to describe oft has already changed when you present them! A few examples: a decade ago it was said that most of Africa (except a few countries) had a very low density of telephone lines and this was seen as a major stumbling block against social and economic progress; today, after a rapid penetration of mobile telephone networks, all over Africa, its citizens are reasonably well connected. It is known that libraries and access to books are in short supply in many African societies and that impacts negatively teaching and learning activities. But as I write, we are witnessing a remarkable grow in Internet access (yet to mature) which can open, in the coming years, the access to universal human knowledge (written documents) to a much wider class of African citizens. More, a decade ago you would see a serene traffic atmosphere in the streets of Maputo and other Mozambican cities. Today, after an explosive grow of the number of car owners, during the past decade, we witness major traffic congestion in their urban settlements which are, therefore, forced to expand their limits outwards and densify their road networks. Twenty years ago we had merely 3 institutions of higher learning in Mozambique enrolling a few thousands students, but now we have more than 30 such institutions which graduate thousands of young (and not so young!) people every year. The same trends you can watch in many other African societies. Many such developments are not an end by themselves, but form a basis for future social and economic progress. Finally, I cannot end without mentioning that all those trends are turning into a reality the emergence of a middle class, in not few African societies, which are gradually overcoming the old motto that says that in Africa either you are (very) rich or (very) poor.

At the 80’s I was in Germany to study and soon it became clear to me that most people there had little to no knowledge about Africa, and from that fact followed a lot of false assumptions and misunderstandings about the continent and its people.
Stereotypes thrive in an environment of ignorance. In most cases it is less a question of malice, and more of lack of knowledge of the facts. This is my opinion.
Therefore the best antidote against stereotypes is to put the facts before people so that they can review their perceptions by themselves.
At that time, I wrote letters to my brothers asking them to send to me dozens of postcards with diverse motifs reflecting life in my country. And I showed them to my German colleagues. I can bear witness to the fact that many of them became, after that, more curious about my “heimat” and, not few, changed radically their view of it.
Today it should be easy for anyone to do the same at a lower cost: you can search through the Web and collect photos and video-clips which show how things are in your country. Or you can upload your own items to your blog or site. It is that easy! And if we, as Africans, don’t do that, then we must bear some of the guilt for the current situation where most people living outside Africa rate the continent much lower than it should be!
Not only Whites who never visited the continent but also Asians, American and European Blacks, and even first generation children of Africans in the Diaspora share those misconceptions. Even worse: often you discover that Africans themselves don’t question such stereotypes when they think about other African nations, sometimes even neighbor countries.
We should do better about this and surely we can!

To close my contributions on this topic of “broken Africa stereotype” let’s show some images of the continent.
I will put some links to web-pages with pictures and video-clips about two places from the eastern part of Africa: Nairobi and Maputo. The former is well-known in many quarters as a beautiful urban setting in Africa, kind of a mini New York of sorts, and the later is my birthplace and, as an American visitor once put it, “one of the most underrated tourist destinations in Africa”.
Let’s begin with Maputo:
Video-clip (taken in the central areas of the city)
• http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=373682379318444&set=vb.243802292315574&type=2&permPage=1 (this clip gives a glimpse of the cosmopolitan atmosphere in Maputo)
Photos (taken in the centre of the city)
• http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1446879&page=4

Well,if Africa is so broken, why are so many Europeans living there? Many Europeans who live in Africa for a while never want to leave. If they can, they will go back there to live, even if it’s after they retire.

One thing to think about re. black IQs – even if IQs are lower in the third world, it is known that malnutrition adversely affects IQs, into the third or fourth generation. So solve the issue of hunger, and the IQ problem would also be resolved, IMHO.

Sub-Saharan Africa is the most genetically/phenotypically heterozygous continent and the origin of modern Homo Sapiens. Most racists believe that the regions lack of centralization until 1800s show some sort of failure. They first believe in this false Eurocentric myth that civilization arose there indigenously and not imported from the Middle east and think they have the right to criticize other cultures for lack of writing or urban stimulus for technology yet ITSELF did not invent neither of these things. Secondly, racists falsely believe that the determinants of civilization depend on some genetically conditioned intelligence(guess that makes Europe stupid then). The latter view distorts history and makes Civilization seem like it is a phenomenon that only the group based intelligent can accomplish. For starters, there is no such thing as a ” Group” IQ instead intelligence goes by a bell curve with 15 % between “races” and 85 % within these “races”. There is Within population genetic diversity in every Human population and is expressed highest, as said, in Sub-Saharan Africa, so the concept of a “Universal IQ” seems ludicrous. Furthermore, if genetic variation ,according to racists, determine ability in intelligence and innovation solely, if at all, that would mean that Sub-Saharan Africa and recent diaspora have the highest in both extreme outliers, in other words, the ability to make 2X scientific/technological innovations , in terms of quality. However, at the moment that is not observed, meaning their is more to innovation or civilization than genetics which does not play a major factor (at least evidently) in the divergence of the Mother continent from that of the prehistoric diaspora. According to most anthropologists, there were only six areas that had the requirements that others did not that enabled civilization ; a river valley located in a soft fertile region. The belief in “Anthrocentrism” is what fuels racism in the first place, the thought that Man is God therefore can control every aspect of its progress and those behind are the least “fittest” which is untrue. We are subject to are environment no matter how genetically “superior” or competent we may supposedly be. From the six areas, civilization spread to those that were less efficient reaching Northern Europe(400 AD) and Sub Saharan Africa in several eras; Axum/Ethiopia (400 BCE); Islamic SSA (1000 AD); the rest of Africa (1800s AD). In the former two eras, Africa rose to significance such as in Pastoralist but Imperial Axum, a military power equal to Rome or China emerged according to contemporary prophet Mani or during Songhai dynasty where scholars in a salt (or iodine) depreciated but wealthy region were able to be great leaders in Islamic literature ( Mathematics, Astronomy, History,etc.) and Law. In the latter era, however nothing but destruction was brought from slavery to colonialism to modern exploitation nothing but disaster has befallen SSA forming the modern stereotype which was not far from the truth. In modern times, however, this is not accurate as Sub-Saharan Africa has the world’s fastest growing economies and is predicted by economics to reach 29 trillion USD by 2050,larger than USA and Eurozone combined and definitely larger than United states of America and Europe separately. Sub-Saharan Africa would have gotten back in its feet sooner had not 1.4 trillion USD not been transferred illegally largely to the west, that’s more than the ODA that racists complain about being paid. If anything ODA should be seen as the West paying debt to Sub-Saharan Africa like they are to the Peoples Republic of China. So this stereotype of Africa is long overdue and blasted to make racists feel like “at least the Negros are still down” as we enter a multipolar world;no longer “white man’s Burden”. Deny or envy, but Sub Saharan Africa is getting up in the world. Look for example at Luanda in Angola, it has a booming luxurious industry but they never show you that… they’ll never tell you this ^. I don’t blame them, it is the responsibility for an Afro-descendant to know their history, struggles, progress, and future not the American Western Media, their purpose is to distort, degrade, dehumanize, to erase any sense of hope in an African so that all is left is a empty vessel, a Slave…No more.

@Shefali I do believe malnutrition in Sub-Saharan Africa and its diaspora is preventing it from reaching full potential such that micronutrients like Iodine and iron alone can cost 15 IQ points and 14.8 IQ points respectively along with the effects of others micronutrient deficiency as well as rampant poverty. As I said, the diaspora is also going through this with African American mothers giving birth iodine deficient on average since 1900s. That’s 15 IQ points right there and the Flynn effect has been explained based on micronutrient deficiency( Iodine for instance). In the Western world, the introduction of iodine to Whites via lactose dairy products allowed the IQ to rise to 15 IQ points during the 1900s.

How did whites “break the continent”? Did you forget empires like the Oyo, and even the NIGER EMPIRE starting slavery, then Arab slavers, THEN AND ONLY THEN the whites? We tried to rebuild things. Shining cities, safe countries, rule of law, etc.

If you want to say Mugabe is “just a madman”, that would imply he’s the exception. What about Mandela, Zuma, Shaka Zulu, Idi Amin?
If a group keeps having “exceptions”, they stop being the “exception”, and start being the rule.
Sort of like how the Moslem Cult is associated with terrorism, and even the “moderates” are in favor of forcing Sharia Law on anyone naive enough to let them in?

Even when shown a picture of shining white houses in “Africa”, as I was recently shown to try to shut me up, it was NIGERIA, who are up to their old thieving tricks, AND getting money and infrastructure from CHINA!
Why can’t Africa do on its own, without another group building FOR them and FORCING Order on them?

tsk tsk tsk. Oyo, Niger, and Arabs did not start slavery. Your precious slavery was in full effect for years. Used by all. Greeks and Romans alike used slavery. Then along came Whites or Americans if you like who needed new slaves. Whites did not try to rebuild things. They destroyed it. They came and stole any and everything they could from Africa. Did that for years. They created laws that benefited them. Destroyed cities that were already there and replaced them with their own. Laid claim to the ones they liked.

“Sort of like how the Moslem Cult is associated with terrorism, and even the “moderates” are in favor of forcing Sharia Law on anyone naive enough to let them in?”—Claims that require proof. So far this is talk of a mad man.

“Even when shown a picture of shining white houses in “Africa”, as I was recently shown to try to shut me up, it was NIGERIA, who are up to their old thieving tricks, AND getting money and infrastructure from CHINA!”—It was not used to shut you up. It was used to make you look like the fool you are. While you are trying to find some nitch to say how bad Africa is, there are several other cities just like it. Not to mention you made yet another claim your a*** seems to be unable to cash. You claimed there were no such cities that made it. Now you want to whine about how they made it. Yet according to YOU making it entails thievery. So why be made because they are taking a page out of the white play book?

“Why can’t Africa do on its own, without another group building FOR them and FORCING Order on them?”—I would ask the same things about white America, but you are a hypocrite so. At any rate China did nothing more than invest. After investments it takes drives and work to run the businesses to build from that point on. So in short they are doing it by themselves. Just like they are doing it by themselves when they come to america and make your young white children look dumb.

“Even when shown a picture of shining white houses in “Africa”, as I was recently shown to try to shut me up, it was NIGERIA, who are up to their old thieving tricks, AND getting money and infrastructure from CHINA

It would be interesting to hear how Nigeria could possibly be “stealing” from the larger and more powerful China?

“Why can’t Africa do on its own, without another group building FOR them and FORCING Order on them?”

One might ask why the backward northern barbarians could not do on their own without the Romans building FOR them, assimilating them, and FORCING order upon them. You know… the Visigoths, the Ostrogoths, the Burgundians, the Franks, the Britons, theVandals… in other words, YOU.

“ and this is exactly why I have so much discomfort with the idea of a so-called “white African”. How can “whites” be truly called “African” when they, or at least most of them, benefit from educational, wealth and land ownership, and social privileges that have yet to be afforded to the people who have been in Africa for tens or even hundreds of thousands of years longer than their families have ever been, not to mention it is questionable how much cultural assimilation they have undergone?”

This is my take on ‘white Africans’ in the South African context. It is quite long. Apology.

I do not speak as political analyst, but from a personal broad-based perspective.Being veteran grandmaster thieves of land, this latest development of linguistic contortionism is the refinement of their delusion of white superiority complex and greedy-guts syndrome. These people, including the liberals (we did not know it was wrong to hate Black people, we were only taught to) who owns land that is simply not his or hers, if they are such lovely non-racist Africans, they must give us back our land. I am not sure the time when Black people said: “Here, Baas, take our land, we love living in matchboxes. You are so good.” To be called a white ‘African’ (writing this hurts me) ties in, not with any nationalist, patriotic or any romantic notion, but with their unbridled capitalistic rapacity and their perverted ideology that they are God’s chosen people (Afrikaners) so they are entitled to all our land.

In South Africa, we have Black Economic Empowerment, aka BEE, a program (which is failing dismally) to redress the iniquitous economic disparity wrought on the natural inhabitants by centuries of genocide, slavery, cultural annihilation, land dispossession, colonialism, apartheid and neo-colonialism. Now the very beneficiaries of slavery, colonialism and apartheid, want to insist upon South Africans that they are Africans so that they can continue being first in line, as usual. They just have to be OWNERS. They have to own everything, including their victims’ name and land. So, being a white ‘African’ would tie them to the right to lay claim to mineral rights, economic opportunities and to hold on to land claims.

Not so long ago when these people had their very own nirvana, (and they still do, for the most part) they made up the most crude and de-humanising names for African people. Remember, apartheid was supposed to be forever. Every single facet life of a South Black person’s life was/is still dominated and poisoned by white superiority. As a person who is still trying to heal very deep wounds (and trying hard to forget) from apartheid, I remember how my parents were forced to bow their heads to white people, who insisted they be called ‘baas’ or ‘missus’- master and madam in Afrikaans. [Both of them eventually died from a broken heart.]

The ‘master race’ – the European, in their utopia, subjected the natural inhabitants to unspeakable and intolerable cruelty and made sure that we knew that they were Europeans or whites, who were the acme of civilization. The humiliation of the ubiquitous apartheid signs. Almost ALL of our rivers, mountains, seas, plants, animals and place names are European or British named. They called themselves Europeans and whites interchangeably. Google the apartheid signs.

In their ugly madness they have no insight when they nakedly accuse the victims of their oppression as racist, when we refuse to acknowledge them as Africans. The temerity of these ungrateful gate-crashers. They are not Africans. They are white South Africans. Or European descendants / settlers/ invaders/ living in South Africa.

The African name has been most reviled by the same white man and woman who wants to be included as African for capitalistic, neo-colonialist motives, and further perpetuating their economic dominance in the midst of their manufactured poverty. It also kills two birds with one stone: they can claim victimhood (and what loud moaning Charlies they are) and exonerate them from their complicity in apartheid. But they do that anyway.

In South Africa, they create websites exaggerating the number of farm murders and crying foul that a ‘genocide’ has been committed against them. Understand it is the very people who make/made Black people feel like criminals just for being Black. Although we do not have formal slavery, these Afrikaner farmers (owning millions of hectares of stolen African land) treat their workers sadistically and still pay them a pittance, where they have they still have very little recourse to the law. These wannabe ‘Africans’ have now overwhelmingly denied that apartheid was a crime against humanity.
The deafening silence of the European colonialist has not been punctured by even a susurration of admittance or half an apology. Because they are not sorry.

Whites are symbiotes not parasites…Or at least were.
We built and let anyone in WHO WOULD OBEY THE RULES! “You are welcome to join us, but you will not lead!”
What group doesn’t pass laws that benefit themselves?
I asked you that in another thread, plus asking what nonwhite group passes laws like Affirmative Action, that benefit non-self, at self’s expense. Got no answer so far. Is that a claim every white hater’s a*** are unable to cash?

We have a mediocracy now, because it’s what gets rewarded. I’ll be the first to say Ob-America is an Obamination compared to 80s America. But that is a derail, because it’s all about WHITES instead of Blacks, much less Africa.

http://dailycaller.com/2013/05/01/nine-things-youll-learn-from-pews-poll-of-the-worlds-muslims/
If you prefer, rather than linking, I can copy&paste the whole article, rather than a link? Not sure what your policy is on copy&paste plagiarism.
Did you ever use your favorite search engine and look up the Moslem “refugees” trying to cancel Germany’s Octoberfest, because beer&boobs are offensive to them? I use the quotes, because true refugees would NOT be trying to change their hosts, they’d be thankful their hosts are protecting them from whatever they’re fleeing! Maybe not kissing ass, but at LEAST keeping a low profile and causing as little problems as they could?

South Africa (and others) were under Civilized World control. It put an END to tribes and their petty bickering. It put an end to Shaka Zulu’s “knocking”. (One of those genocides everyone forgets because it wasn’t committed by whites).
It was an idyllic scene straight from the Mythical 1950s!
Important detail: WHITES built that, not the savages. THEY DIDN’T MAKE THAT, WE DID! Mugabe’s “palace” is actually an old white farmers’ house that was stolen!

Savages came in, “Only To Work”, then once they were the majority in the whites’ country, they overthrew and destroyed it. How is that from whites’ playbook? Actually, that sounds more like the Mexican Scam!
Whites never wanted, nor even pretended to want, to JOIN savages’ savagery, buy land, kick them aside and build civilization seems to be our historical path.
Just for clarification: When the savages got control, whom did the laws they pass benefit? Particularly BEE, the exact inverse of our Affirmative Action?

In America, Government forces Black MINORITY into undeserved jobs.
In South Africa (Savage control), Government forces Black MAJORITY into undeserved jobs.
See how that works? A certain asymmetry and/or lack of charity there!

America wasn’t the one that got order forced on us. From the 1800s to let’s say 1964, we have been the enforcer of order. It wasn’t Britain or France that put the Barbary Pirates down…It was America. Britain could’ve stopped the Japanese carrier group that did Pearl Harbor. They didn’t because they WANTED America in the fight. Why?
Everyone “hates” us, sure, but when they have a flood, tsunami, earthquake, or riot, it isn’t CHINA they call for help. Why is that? Is that a long-con plan to drain us of our resources? Are we chivalrous or chumps for always helping others, even our enemies (Like Afghanistan) whenever they call?

China didn’t just invest. China (re)built the country, in exchange for resources. Just like whites did! So why are Chinese “Noble” for doing this, but whites are “evil colonialists” for the same thing?

King
China is building the country in exchange for resources.
China is “helping”.
Whites did the same thing, but whites are the “evil colonialists”.
Eventually, the savages turned on whites, stole and ruined the country.
Do you think China will let the savages pull that same stunt?

Keep in mind our divergent responses to riots in our own country.
America gives savages “Space To Destroy”, China sent a TANK to stop the party!

What do you consider Romans if not white? Were they Black? Arab? Space aliens?

taotesan
By that “logic”, Blacks in America should be called something else, and if they get “too rich” in our country, they should be murdered and their property stolen, just like the savages did–AND STILL DO–to landowners and farmers in South Africa and elsewhere?
“Kill The Boer Kill The Farmer” vs…Hm, we don’t have a “Kill The Savage” movement here in America, do we?

Of course whites would be owners, whites built the country.
Blacks came in only to work. That “pittance” you call it, was WAY more than they could get under their fellow savages. Once again, why come INTO a place if you’re so ill-treated? Find out if the border is just as permeable the opposite direction!

Have you done any searches on what the savages did to the people who built up a better country that they could live in if they could behave?
Did you ever consider Apartheid was to PREVENT exactly what the savages did when they got weapons from Russia and overran our control?
Google “Farmers killed by machete” and take a REAL wild guess why they don’t consider Apartheid a bad thing. Hint: Your deep EMO wounds are nothing compared to what the savages did to the whites, then stole their land/farm/business to add insult to LITERAL injury!
To wit: If you are violent and untrustworthy (Savage), why not keep you away from us?

As to education, look at the fantastic schools and universities whites built even in the areas they set aside for savages. They didn’t HAVE to do that! They could’ve said, “That side is your side, be as Savage As You Wanna Be”
How DID you learn English anyways, if not taught by the Civilized World?
Did you butcher a human, eat his brain, and absorb the knowledge that way? I thought that only worked in videogames!

As to wealth, you’re right, but whites figured out how to make resources into wealth. That’s why “make money” is an American/European idiom that does NOT mean counterfeiting.

As to land ownership, once again, whites brought the CONCEPT of land tenure there. “This Area Is Ours. Period.” not “Oh, we lay claim to this vast strip, but we’ll keep going back and forth along it like a toy train”
Even now, YOU call the land they own “stolen”, and look the other way, if not cheer, when savages brutally murder them and steal what they built and EARNED, right?
Is that not greedy gutting? (Literally!) Are they made to feel like criminals for being Black or for what they did to the people who built the country?

How many decades are you going to keep pretending to be victims? You killed them, you stole the country, what are you going to do with it? Make it crash&burn, then blame the whites, right? Kinda like someone carjacking me, killing me, then wrapping my car around the nearest utility pole, and blaming ME for not teaching them to drive before they killed me, right?

Michael Jon Barker
Right, ROOF is the threat, not Farrakhan, or Noble, or Kambon, or any of the other savages exhorting the extermination of whites, especially cops?

You don’t see how those two are opposite, but not equal? Farrakhan&co would NEVER dirty their hands by killing a white themselves. They enjoy the luxury of the Civilized World too much. All they’re doing is free speech, right?

“You want freedom? You’re gonna have to kill some crackers! You’re gonna have to kill some of their babies!”

Those were the words of Minister King Samir Shabazz, also known as Maurice Heath, the New Black Panther Party’s Philadelphia leader.

Shabazz is the same man the Holder Department of Justice refused to prosecute after he was filmed on Election Day 2008 with Jerry Jackson wearing paramilitary uniforms, carrying a nightstick and blocking a doorway to a polling location to intimidate voters.
Is their hate their religion too?

@ EPGAH – But the Africans are wrong for taking over an existing culture? Isn’t that their manifest destiny?
Didn’t most white people end up on other continents in an effort to escape oppression by other white people?

Michael Jon Barker
As to views as religion, even here on this very site, some Blacks claim that whites are not human, or in this very thread, one claims we who created the country don’t deserve to enjoy it, so which “religion” do you think is more harmful?

“WE SEE THEM AS HUMAN, THEY LOOK LIKE REAL HUMANS BUT THEY ARE NOT, THEY DO NOT HAVE HUE TO BE MAN.”
HUE-MAN? Sounds like a He-Man villain.

taoetesan
You justify BEE–Government forcing Blacks into undeserved positions–but isn’t that just the savages, now that they’re in control, passing laws to benefit THEM? Where is their generosity, like whites passing Affirmative Action, laws that harm us, and benefit not-us?
Savages are selfish, whites are generous.

“what nonwhite group passes laws like Affirmative Action, that benefit non-self, at self’s expense. Got no answer so far. Is that a claim every white hater’s a*** are unable to cash?”—That is not the question you asked, but I will quote what you did say so you can stop pretending like you are not goal post shifting when you are. Your original response got an answer. You just did not like it. As such AA actually benefits whites. Which is why they are the biggest benefactors/supporters of it. You need to do research on what AA includes. Not just women but those with disabilities as well.

“If you prefer, rather than linking, I can copy&paste the whole article, rather than a link? Not sure what your policy is on copy&paste plagiarism.”—Two problems with your source. 1. It does not prove or support what you claimed above. 2. It managed to show no sample size. 3. It contradicts what you you claim. Ie In most the percentage of Muslim respondents who said they favor Shariah as the law of the land is 20 percent or lower.

“Important detail: WHITES built that, not the savages. THEY DIDN’T MAKE THAT, WE DID! Mugabe’s “palace” is actually an old white farmers’ house that was stolen!”—Sure and I am an Alien. I require proof. Not a mad man ranting. Even with sources you seem to be unable to realize what they say versus what you believe in your mad mind.

“Savages came in, “Only To Work”, then once they were the majority in the whites’ country, they overthrew and destroyed it. How is that from whites’ playbook? “—How can they come in to land that was already theirs? News flash they can’t. So based on your logic the savages are the whites who came in to “work” and steal and when they became the majority they overthrew and destroyed. Copy that to the situation in America and you have successfully described how everyone took a page from the white playbook.

“Everyone “hates” us, sure, but when they have a flood, tsunami, earthquake, or riot, it isn’t CHINA they call for help.”—You might want to talk to some of those people. They don’t beg for America’s help as the media likes to tell. In fact I have ran across a great deal that would like america to stay out simply because America uses it’s “Help” to build strongholds in their countries.

“China didn’t just invest. China (re)built the country, in exchange for resources. Just like whites did! So why are Chinese “Noble” for doing this, but whites are “evil colonialists” for the same thing?”—Whites did not invest in the country. They simply took. Big difference.

China is building the country in exchange for resources.
China is “helping”.

That is quid pro quo, or as we like to call it, “doing business.” Each party agrees that the other party has something of value to offer. An exchange is driven, and both parties benefit. Neither party is “stealing” as you have so recklessly suggested.

Whites did the same thing, but whites are the “evil colonialists.”

No, I think not. Whites did not sit down with Africans and hammer out a quid pro quo. Whites simply stole the land and resources by annexing them by force. They did the same in India and later, in China. Whites essentially carved up Africa into colonies as they pleased… which I assume is why they were called “evil colonialists.” To the thinking man, this makes perfect sense.

Uglyblackjohn
Well, you COULD say whites LEFT if they didn’t like it! Which was my message on one of the other threads. If I DO have a flaw, it’s that I’m too subtle for most people to get the message.
Whites’ flaw is suicidal altruism. Woman and the snake, Frog&scorpion, whatever. But I digress.

But actually, no, most white countries/colonies/whatever you want to call it is because whites, once we had the wherewithal to, are explorers.
Is there really an “edge of the world”? Is the Sound Barrier real? Is the sky really the limit?

If you’re trying to draw an equal sign between conquests, I have to put a big old NO on that one too. Which group made a BETTER, SAFER, MORE LAW-ABIDING country, and which one made Purgatory on Earth?
Or let’s talk about EARNING?
Which one did it all on their own, and which one needed Russian weapons to overthrow civilization? And now needs constant investment from China?

News flash: It WASN’T their land, they didn’t have the concept of land tenure. So it’s NOT theirs! Another poster in this thread put up a map of who owned what. Whites–at least British and Dutch–set aside Reservations for the savages. Savages eschewed that and wanted the whites’ part!
If I let you live in my basement, would you kill me and take over the upper floors of my house?

The whites didn’t come there to work, they BUILT THE COUNTRY! It was their work that made the country worth savages immigrating/invading!
What the savages did is something akin to what I believe Mexicans are trying to do to America.

And South Africa is an EXTRA special case, it was too desert, too inhospitable for even the SAVAGES to want to live there!
So if you throw something away, I take it, recondition it into a gleaming (or at least serviceable) prize, you don’t get to say “I want it back, it’s mine.”
They terraformed it into something worth living in, that’s why the savages wanted it. That, or thriving farms and businesses, electric and road infrastructure, things worth stealing.

King
It WAS quid pro quo: WE build a country, savages could live there if they wanted a Better Standard of Living, otherwise, they could get out of the way.
But now the savages have their Wish! They are reduced to a paltry minority in their own countries, if not entirely left or dead (Which is “gone” in the metaphysical sense).

Being our Noble EQUALS, why didn’t the savages build or at least maintain a country every bit as shiny as when the whites controlled it? Why did they NEED China to build infrastructure FOR them? Whites already built the infrastructure, what happened to that infrastructure?
Did whites rip it out with their dying breaths?
Did the savages destroy it because it was a reminder of Civilized World control?
OR
Did they just let it decay because they didn’t know how to maintain it?

sharinalr
America has always been independent by nature. In the last 60 years, we undid our isolationism, which is a large part of the end of my parents’ mythical 50s.
Russia has never given us anything but grief. In the 90s, there was an attempt at reconciliation–and we even bailed them out when they collapsed–but even if Gorbachev was 100% sincere and honest, the long-term effect was that it was just for them to get closer to stick a bigger blade in Uncle Sam’s back.

If you want to borrow King’s thing about a give&take, so far, America’s been doing all the Giving, and Russia is not the least of countries doing all the TAKING! Most egregiously, America GAVE up our anti-nuke project in Poland.

If we hadn’t, Iran’s PROMISE (And probable LIE) about not building nukes wouldn’t matter. They would stay peaceful, because if they weren’t, we’d shoot their nukes out of the sky and return fire.

If Russia FELT it was aimed at them, only the hit dog squeals, right?
What might Russia be doing that an anti-nuke system would thwart?

That is not quid pro quo. Look up the word first before you…..nevermind.

“Being our Noble EQUALS, why didn’t the savages build or at least maintain a country every bit as shiny as when the whites controlled it? Why did they NEED China to build infrastructure FOR them?”—They had. This is the part of the story where the whites come in and destroy it.

“America has always been independent by nature.”—False. Even coming to this land “Americans” were dependent on the help of natives. Otherwise they would have died. Years fast forward they became dependent on the funds of other countries. You forget this country is in debt. We are dependent on foreign oil. Should I continue on this dependency?

I don’t see where I mentioned Russia, but…..deflect on. You are good at that.

FYI my comment came before king so not sure how I borrowed anything from him, but great minds do think alike.

EPGAH, Whites did not “build a country” almost anywhere in Africa. What they built were a very few White cities/towns that were used as garrisons, colonizing centers, and hotels for the Whites who came and went. In all cases, the vast majority of the “country” was worse off after colonization then before colonization.

This idea that Whites built up these countries into shining African empires that were then taken over by ungrateful savages and ruined is more the result of you not reading books than reflective of any historical facts on the matter.

v8driver
That would kind of redefine “Out of the Frying Pan, Into The Fire”
(Capitalization?)
Unemployment has gotten worse, and the savages decided it wasn’t bad enough, so they passed BEE laws, so if you’re white and can’t buy your way into Orania, you can forget about it.
Also, savages with machetes are a constant problem, stealing from anyone who DOES make it. I’ve even heard rumors they have started attacking “too successful” blacks now, but that’s probably overblown.

You see all the houses with concrete corners and barbed wire? They’re not a WWII reenactment troop, they’re trying to ward off savages.

On the other hand, if you join a PMC, you can make serious bank protecting civilized from savage! Even some of the richer savages hire “consultants”, not bodyguards. The name-change is to avoid hypocrisy, of course!

Also, savages with machetes are a constant problem, stealing from anyone who DOES make it. I’ve even heard rumors they have started attacking “too successful” blacks now, but that’s probably overblown

Why is it overblown? Further upthread, I asked you what these savages look like. taotesan suggested they look like you but I don’t think you picture them that way.

If I DO have a flaw, it’s that I’m too subtle for most people to get the message.

I am sure you know what I am driving at here but, if you are ‘less subtle’ and actually honest, it will discredit all of your arguments on here and expose you so instead, you misrepresent things but what is underlying is not at all subtle

sharinalr
You said we were just the same as the savages taking help from Russia to overthrow and destroy. “A page from America’s book”, right?

quid pro quo is a TRADE. Doesn’t have to be a FAIR trade, even, it has to be PERCEIVED as a fair trade at the time.
What do others have to offer that is worth the upgrade in Standard of Living they would get by invading any place created by the Civilized World?

Yes, America TRADED food for protection. The savages didn’t give us food because they were feeling generous or some kind of Welfare project, it was because the Wampanoags were attacking them and they saw Salvation in our metal-and-GUNPOWDER weapons!
We beat the bullies down–then they turned on us!
I think I said that in another thread? Or you just weren’t listening.

Our dependence on foreign oil is a CHOICE. Environmental regs have choked off not only oil-drilling but smelting, manufacturing, all dirty industry.
Economy is less important than ecology, and we have the unemployment to prove it, right?
Of course, Obama claims it’s part of a “strategy” to have oil left when terrorists/Mexico/Canada run out. We suffer until they run out…Does this even “seem like a good idea at the time”?

There was a Faction in America’s RECENT history, say the last 10 years, that wanted eco-exemptions for “Drill Baby Drill”. Refresh my memory, were they praised or ridiculed?

“You said we were just the same as the savages taking help from Russia to overthrow and destroy. “A page from America’s book”, right?”—I didn’t mention Russia, so you basically are putting words in my mouth. The only thing I said from your quote was “A page from America’s book.”

“quid pro quo is a TRADE. Doesn’t have to be a FAIR trade, even, it has to be PERCEIVED as a fair trade at the time.”—Here is the definition of quid pro quo “Quid pro quo means an exchange of goods or services, where one transfer is contingent upon the other.” It requires a trade yes, but forcing a lifestyle on someone is not a trade. You have so far been describing a forced lifestyle on people. Not a quid pro quo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quid_pro_quo

“Yes, America TRADED food for protection. “—Nope. Another snippet from your false history. They gave you food and taught you how to grow it. Among other things.

“I think I said that in another thread? Or you just weren’t listening.”—You claim to say a lot of things and when it comes to those things being quoted it turns out that is not what you even said. You make stuff up as you go as I did say and can quote time and date when I said it. Plus I can’t hear you through the computer screen.

“Our dependence on foreign oil is a CHOICE.”—If that is the lie you wish to tell yourself. If it was a choice the choose to drill oil on your own land or choose to make cars that don’t rely on it, but America can not fathom a life without oil. Primarily why the business is rolling in the dough. This quote is a prime example of that dependency “We suffer until they run out”. If you were not dependent on something you would not see it as suffering for not using it.

“There was a Faction in America’s RECENT history, say the last 10 years, that wanted eco-exemptions for “Drill Baby Drill”. Refresh my memory, were they praised or ridiculed?”—Don’t know and don’t care as to answer would give you another deflection route.

Omnipresent
Why is it overblown? Because savages would NEVER attack their OWN for being too rich. This is about RACE and who BELONGS there, not who got rich and who didn’t, isn’t it?
They are trying to have the whites’ houses, businesses, and lifestyle, without the whites! Killing fellow savages would not advance this goal. They want a WHITE-free country, not a country purged of fellow savages!
Is that or is that not what is *underlying* the overthrow, no matter how nobly or subtly they may couch it?

Why IS it noble for savages to purge whites–EVEN FROM OUR OWN COUNTRIES–but whites purging savages are “madmen”? Even Hungary building a wall to keep savages OUT, rather than purge them, is considered worse than Mao and Hitler put together!

I picture them as Black, grinning evilly, a machete in one hand, and either a gun or a severed head “trophy” from a recent murder in the other.
Lions are actually more valuable than HUMAN lives to the savages. Which is why they were so tightly controlled when the Civilized World ran the place.
They somehow predicted savages would be savage (Definition: Primitive and violent), so they kept them separate to avoid trouble!

I’ve tried being less subtle but my comments keep getting deleted. Hilarious but unproductive.
What do you think I’ve “misrepresented”? I keep getting accused of moving the goalposts and similar, but I don’t see it.

King
“very few White cities/towns that were used as garrisons, colonizing centers, and hotels”
What do you consider a COUNTRY to be? Are they supposed to coat the whole place in concrete? Maybe Domed Cities with Cursed Earth between them?
America is generally considered a country, but there are large unoccupied areas, and other areas are over-occupied. Are the unoccupied areas NOT America? If so, why don’t illegals settle there and build their own civilization, rather than invade our ALREADY-BUILT CITIES and antagonize us by failing to observe our language and laws?

Furthermore, what determines ownership? Might Makes Right? Sheer Numbers? (Which is actually a variant, but let’s pretend it’s separate.) Borders and Laws? Or the people who BUILD the country, OWN the country?

I’ve read plenty of books about Rhodesia and South Africa, but it just doesn’t do it justice. When I actually was ASSIGNED there, I was shocked at how much worse it was than the books hinted at.
The books I read were
“Tell Me And I Shall Forget”
“White Paint”
“Memoirs of a Traitor”
I also read some book I can’t remember the title of about Cargo Cults in Africa, far deadlier than their Asian counterparts.

After whites left, of course it’ll be worse! We raised their expectations! They’ve always HAD disease, starvation, death, and random violence, but now, because of Civilized World food, meds, and law-enforcement, they EXPECT not to! Somehow it becomes the whites’ fault the savages are dying. Our fault for letting them kill us, I guess, instead of developing bulletproof skin and machete-proof necks?

The underlying problem: They want the white lifestyle without the whites making it/making it possible! That’s where the “White Privilege” misconception comes from.

It’s like a child demanding more toys, more candy, believing the parents have or can buy it, and are just selfishly holding out on them. Someone slips the kid a gun, they shoot the parents, then find out the parents weren’t holding out, they really DIDN’T have it to give. And the kid can’t afford to buy more because anyone unscrupulous enough to HIRE a kid would CHEAT it!

In fact, that was almost verbatim the plot of the book about the African Cargo Cults. Whites were messengers from the Gods, sent to give the savages gifts, but when we stopped giving gifts, they thought we were HOLDING out rather than RAN out of gifts to give, so they killed us! Now THAT’S ungrateful!

“I keep getting accused of moving the goalposts and similar, but I don’t see it.”—You also don’t see what half of your sources say, so the idea that you don’t see it is inline with a lot of things you don’t see.

For example you claimed Africa never made it. Then when presented with a Pictures of Africa that has “made it” you change or switch goal posts to say they are thieves or scammers. This is goal post shifting and you have several across several threads.

sharina
I don’t know if you’re being intentionally difficult/obtuse, or just really can’t figure it out.
We don’t FORCE a lifestyle on anyone. They WANT our lifestyle, and consider it unfair if we have ANYTHING they don’t! BUT they don’t want to follow the rules, or even the annoying steps we had to go through to GET to this point of relative wealth. In short, they want us to build it up, they show up “Where’s My Share?” and we just fork it over! Otherwise we’re selfish Privileged scum, right?

Is that or is that not why poor savages keep pouring into white countries, instead of China or fellow savage countries? Indeed, why is illegal immigration from CHINA now outstripping that from MEXICO, our hereditary invader?
China’s a rich country, shouldn’t they be able to take care of their own excess population?
Unless they WANT OUR LIFESTYLE?

“They gave you food and taught you how to grow it. Among other things.”
Yes, but you keep mischaracterizing it as them doing it out of altruism, the Goodness of their Heart, etc. It wasn’t.
They could’ve let us starve, it wasn’t against their BELIEF, as they later tried to DIRECTLY KILL US, it was against their SELF-INTEREST!
IF we die, the Narragansett keep attacking them until THEY die.
Once the Narragansett were gone, we had Outlived our Usefulness, so they tried to kill us DIRECTLY!
*Sad Music* They USED us! *End Sad Music*
Whites may or may not have whined, “But we had a DEAL!”, but in any event, we kicked savage ass.

Did you read the Wikipedia article on King Phillip’s War? Or just Google it, and find a site you DO trust, if you don’t trust Wikipedia for whatever reason?

It’s not just Americans that can’t fathom (Good pun!) a life without oil. Europe, Chinese, Russians, and savages of every country and description have cars too, and I DON’T think any of them run on fairy dust! Even when savages can’t AFFORD a car in their own country, as soon as they invade the Civilized World, they get one? (If people REALLY cared about Global Warming, or Environment Justice or whatever, they’d stop savages from getting cars, but that’s just shy of stopping them from BREEDING in difficulty!)

Petrochemicals are the ONLY way to get AS MUCH energy as you want WHEN you want WHERE you want.
Battery tech has basically plateaued in say the past 10 years? (We can argue exactly HOW LONG it’s stagnated, but it HAS stagnated, can you agree with that?)
So electric cars are inefficient, and more importantly, EXPENSIVE to have batteries on a CAR scale instead of a cellphone or laptop scale.
The Volt is $70,000 STRIPPED! I can buy 3 cars for that!
And batteries don’t MAKE electricity, they STORE it. Where are we going to get the electricity in the first place?

Solar and wind are unreliable and require constant subsidy. Solar cells and windmills are built in CHINA, so that wouldn’t create any jobs FOR AMERICANS! (It doesn’t “count” if it’s not for us, OK?)
The Bum keeps blocking charters of new nuclear reactors or even renewal of old ones.
So all we’ve got left IS fossil fuels.

EPGAH said: I picture them as Black, grinning evilly, a machete in one hand, and either a gun or a severed head “trophy” from a recent murder in the other.
Lions are actually more valuable than HUMAN lives to the savages. Which is why they were so tightly controlled when the Civilized World ran the place.They somehow predicted savages would be savage (Definition: Primitive and violent), so they kept them separate to avoid trouble!

Your outlook on life is primitive and violent so, I think you fit the term savage more than anyone else. I feel like I am reading the post of a child, one that is constantly pointing the finger saying ‘look what he/she/they did’ and just not understanding the context of anything.

V8driver
I’m waiting for the other shoe to drop. Look at all the concessions China has squeezed out of America for just monetary loans to support our ridiculous “social safety net” spending, from letting spies go to our nuclear and rocketry secrets. How much MORE would they extort if they actually BUILT THE COUNTRY?

Savages have nothing to offer except staying out of the way while someone mines resources that Civilized World needs and China needs for their cheap (and often toxic) knockoffs of our products…Or LABOR. China does not have slavery, they have Laogai, which is arguably worse…

Omnipresent
My outlook on life is NOT primitive and violent. I LOVE the Civilized World’s technology, and I think we could’ve done a LOT MORE if we weren’t constantly trying to keep savages either at bay or paid off.

As to post of a child, there are other threads here that seem like just, “Whites have MORE than we do! GIMME GIMME GIMME!”
I consider myself the adult saying, “BEHAVE! Let us EARN more so we can give you more!”
Savages overthrowing our countries is a primitive, violent way of saying, “WE WANT IT NOW!” Actions louder than words, right?
Or burning down cities in America.

As to context, what “context” could possibly justify invading a country, demanding things from it, and murdering the people and destroying it if they don’t get their way?
·They didn’t build any of it.
·If they worked, they were paid for it.
·We tripled their average life expectancy, so they owe US, not vice-versa.
·If they didn’t like it, they could stay out and return to Nasty, Brutish, and Short!
That is my “context”. What “context” could reverse that formula?

Omnipresent
PS, the savages HAVE done that to farmers and other WHITE landowners, so I don’t think I’m particularly off in my idea of how savages look/act/wield.
Do a Google Images Search on it.
Maybe you’ll throw up in horror, or maybe you’ll cheer at the savages killing the greedy selfish whites?

But given what they’ve done, doesn’t that make ANY length whites go to to protect ourselves seem absolutely justified or else “Not enough”?
From Apartheid in South Africa–UNFAIR, sure, but NECESSARY, given what the savages did when it stopped–to Hungary and Israel walling themselves off from the violent savages to America…
Hmm, America doesn’t HAVE ANY defenses from the savages since Wilson, do we?

BTW, this article completely leaves out Amy Biehl. Gang-raped and murdered while trying to help the savages. And her parents put up money…for the legal defense of the savages who did it! THAT is seriously bad parenting!
Or the nurses who got raped in Haiti.
Or the doctors who got kidnapped in Somalia so frequently, that Doctors Without Borders quit going there!

“I don’t know if you’re being intentionally difficult/obtuse, or just really can’t figure it out.”—Nope that is all you. You seem to have a thing for voicing who you are while trying to paint it as someone else.

“We don’t FORCE a lifestyle on anyone. They WANT our lifestyle, and consider it unfair if we have ANYTHING they don’t!”—That is false and history shows that as much. Take the natives for example. They were put in schools and had their names changed, forced to renounce their old ways, and forced to dress the way “whites” wanted them to. Even if we look at today, whites want to force people who come here to speak English and even force English on other countries.

“Is that or is that not why poor savages keep pouring into white countries, instead of China or fellow savage countries?”—History shows that whites pour into other people’s countries. Just because those minorities decide to return to their lands does not mean they are pouring in to a white country. It just means they are returning home.

“Yes, but you keep mischaracterizing it as them doing it out of altruism, the Goodness of their Heart, etc. It wasn’t.”—-Here is another example of goal post shifting. You claimed America was independent. You have a whole aparagraph above raving about it, but Natives decide to help those helpless white Americans and now you want to claim it was not for nothing. A claim you have no proof of other than your idea of “we whites would have done that so they more than likely did it.” In short the first settlers needed them. Their survival was dependent on them. You were debunked again.

“Did you read the Wikipedia article on King Phillip’s War?”—Save the deflection as it still has nothing to do with what you are claiming.

“It’s not just Americans that can’t fathom (Good pun!) a life without oil.”—But we are not talking about other countries. We are talking about dependency. You claimed America was so independent. Now you are making excuse for why it is SO dependent. See the humor. ROFL

If you want lack of context, look at the top of the page here.
Mugabe is proof that blacks are unfit to rule and Hitler is a madman, because of the CONSEQUENCES for their respective genocides.
Whites all banded together to stop Hitler. Even Russia (for a time) was on the side of the Angels!
Blacks, they banded together…UNDER it! They didn’t try to STOP Mugabe, too busy congratulating it for overthrowing and murdering whites in our own country, and even shielding the King of Sudan from prosecution!

The savages wanted to live in OUR country, so why shouldn’t they speak OUR language?

Who is returning to THEIR land? If they’re coming into OUR country, it’s obviously not theirs!

English is the Universal Language because English were the Universal Civilizers–before America took up the torch. Everything from science to commerce to Air Traffic Control is in English. If China had civilized the world, rather than merely usurp America’s tech, would you complain as loudly if they expected anyone who wanted to do business with them to learn Chinese?
Indeed, would China be ANYTHING without England upgrading them?
Why DID they renege on the land treaty of Hong Kong?
“In Perpetuity” becoming “99 years” is moving the goalposts…quite a bit!
The “context” being they killed a lot of English people, and turned one English woman into a Nice Belt! That needs to be punished, don’t you think?

You debunked NOTHING
King Phillip’s War is not a deflection. It is exactly what I’m claiming.
King Phillip’s War is the name usually given to the Wampanoags turning on the Pilgrims. We were independent, trading military aid for food. “America’s” first military treaty even BEFORE America was a country!
If they just fed us and we stood around and did NOTHING for it, then yes, I’d say we were dependent leeches. OK? That is the difference.
Our survival was dependent on them, BUT if we didn’t beat their bullies, their survival was null&void too. They were dependent on us!
If whites were as evil as you pretend, why didn’t we kill BOTH groups of savages, TAKE the food, and that’s that?

sharinalr
You don’t HAVE to learn English. You don’t even have to get housebroken. But if you do not, there will be things forever denied you, and people will always treat you as less. Assimilating to a better culture, a better mode of behavior, gives you privileges in return.
Privilege is as always, EARNED, not merely BORN!

“The savages wanted to live in OUR country, so why shouldn’t they speak OUR language?”—False. You are in their country. You should be speaking native tongue. This is not your land. You wanted to come here. No native invited you.

“If they’re coming into OUR country, it’s obviously not theirs!”—False again. You can return to a land that you once lived on. Reread what I said. You seem to have gotten sidetracked.

“If China had civilized the world, rather than merely usurp America’s tech, would you complain as loudly if they expected anyone who wanted to do business with them to learn Chinese”—Can you stop trying to deflect. You are embarrassing yourself terribly. Forcing English on people in other countries doesn’t have to do with just business. Research…research.

“Indeed, would China be ANYTHING without England upgrading them?”—It would as would any country, but it just would not be what you want it to be.

“You debunked NOTHING”—I actually did. Several times I might add. I got such a level of kick and giggles out of how easy it was.

You made claims you never could support. King Philip was not even one of them. You bring in a bunch of irrelevant things hoping that those will beef up your claims. They don’t. Then you switch positions in hope that moving to another will make you seem more right. It doesn’t

If you like I can and likely will make a list of all the claims you made here and were debunked on.

“If they just fed us and we stood around and did NOTHING for it, then yes, I’d say we were dependent leeches. OK? That is the difference.”—There is no stipulation to being dependent on something. The meaning of the word is clear. If you rely on or your life standing is determined by something or someone else then you are dependent. Period.

“Our survival was dependent on them, BUT if we didn’t beat their bullies, their survival was null&void too. They were dependent on us!”—Except those “bullies” were around before you came. How did they deal with them them? The same as they did before you came.

“If whites were as evil as you pretend, why didn’t we kill BOTH groups of savages, TAKE the food, and that’s that?”—Because you still needed the other group to teach you the land beyond the coast.

Except American culture is not a better culture. You only put it on a pedal stool.

“Rhodesia was a white country.”—Countries don’t have color, but if we want to go their it was stolen. That does not make it a white country.

“If you want to claim the English aren’t or weren’t white, it’s not me that has a level of delusion!”—Except I did not claim that and was not going to. I thought you got enough of embarrassing yourself by trying to lay claim to what I think or believe.

sharinalr
We’re on land they once occupied. They were no more invited than we.
We actually made a country, they didn’t.
Think of 5-year-olds playing in a dirt lot. They don’t build anything (Or at least nothing lasting), they invent nothing, how is it theirs?
Then if a bunch of musclebound behemoths lift them off that dirt lot, and put them outside it, and build a store there, can they barge in and say “We own this store because we used to play in the dirt lot that was here before!”?
Don’t think so.

I’ve moved 27 times in my 36 years of life. Could I go to any of those previous houses and say, “Hey, I USED to live here, I’m gonna live here again!”?
I don’t think that would fly. The current occupants might make ME fly out a window, but that doesn’t “count”!
No savages are coming here because America used to be theirs. Mexicans used to be kept out by Apache and Comanche, now immortalized in military helicopters. It would be exceptionally ironic if we used those helicopters to keep them out…but we don’t. We have the Bum’s “Virtual Fence” with camera drones so we can WATCH them invade and rape our country, turning it into the same mess their country already is!

Before English, German was the Prime Language, and before that, Latin was. There’s always some Prime Language, everyone “has” to learn if they want the benefits behind it. AND of course, the lesser cultures are always going to whine some variant of “Hey, why can’t we have the benefits without the rest of the culture?”

American culture of WHAT YEAR? If even HALF of what my parents claim is true, then the 50s were better than the 80s, which in turn, are far and away better than the now-time. Technology is better, people, educational system, manners, safety, and other facets are worse. And this is the same country–allegedly–just separate temporally from itself.
Are you the same person as you were 30 years ago? Or even 10?

But if America is not a better culture, how do we still have a better country?
Or at least better than Mexico…Faint Praise, indeed!
And in turn, there are countries south of Mexico that make MEXICO look like a success story. Mexicans complain about Nigerian and Honduran illegals!

“murdering whites in our own country”—anymore questions on the level of delusion of this man?

That is what you said. BUT King admitted that Europeans carved the mostly-blank land of Africa into COUNTRIES where there weren’t before.
Just like America, Rhodesia was sparse or even blank land before the Civilized World built it into a COUNTRY!
Stealing a country is a modern thing, there has to BE a country there first!

“Breadbasket of Africa”, now can’t even feed itself.
We send seeds, they either eat them or use them to soak up floods. Hilarious, but unproductive.

“What do you consider a COUNTRY to be? Are they supposed to coat the whole place in concrete?”

What are they SUPPOSED to do? Probably not take over other people’s lands without invitation, consent or payment, If it comes down to what they are “supposed” to do in the first place. But if you want to make an argument that part of the payment was “building up the country,” then it can’t just be built up for the White people in the country. Otherwise it’s not helping the people who you are arguing that it benefits for taking their land.

“Furthermore, what determines ownership? Might Makes Right? Sheer Numbers? (Which is actually a variant, but let’s pretend it’s separate.) Borders and Laws? Or the people who BUILD the country, OWN the country?”

Well, the Europeans seem to keep changing their minds on what constitutes ownership. For example, when dealing with non-Europeans, then “Might Makes Right” is a perfectly acceptable rationale. “Manifest Destiny” in the Americas and the “Scramble for Africa” on the Continent exemplify that reality. However if Hitler invades Poland or France, then it’s no longer an acceptable rationale. Or if Saddam invades Kuwait, or if Putin invades Ukraine. This is what’s known as Moving The Goal Posts(please see sharinalr for details)

“After whites left, of course it’ll be worse! We raised their expectations! They’ve always HAD disease, starvation, death, and random violence, but now, because of Civilized World food, meds, and law-enforcement, they EXPECT not to!”

But then everyone has always had disease, starvation, death, and random violence. Do you watch the news? Do you read history?

demanding things from itand murdering the people and destroying it if they don’t get their way

This sounds an awful lot to me like what Europeans did for example in America but under no initial resistance from the indigenous people that lived there. The native people helped them – that’s what Thanksgiving is about isn’t it? Later down the line, they Europeans got greedy, took land but wanted more, encroaching on and then invading on what was established indigenous areas.

v8driver
It’s my initials.
Why do you consider what I write “hate and vitriol”?
Whites are called “Cancer of the planet” on this very site!
Savages talk&sing about exterminating whites–sometimes they DO it, so why is it “hate and vitriol” to want savages to either calm down and behave or get the expletive of your choice out of our countries?

Is it also hate&vitriol when savages invade our countries, murder the people and overthrow them? Or when say, Mexico doesn’t want savages to breach THEIR southern border and cause “economic and cultural disruption”?
When does it stop being “hate and vitriol” and start being a reasonable desire not to be murdered, robbed, or otherwise violated?
Or is that NEVER a reasonable desire?

Speaking of which, have you seen the savages national anthem after they overthrew South Africa?
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcOXqFQw2hc)
Kill the White, Kill the Boer.
What “context” makes that not “hate&vitriol”?

Omnipresent
It wasn’t murder, it was fighting back. After you sell me land, I can do whatever I want with it. It is no longer yours, it is MINE!

If you get “worried” I’m buying too much land, the correct way of stopping me is to stop selling me anymore.
Japanese and Chinese are buying up land in America, from prime grazing land to Rare Earths mines–the ones necessary for Clean Energy technology as well as battery research. Should we kill them as well because the amount of land they’ve bought is “worrisome”?
Should we claim they only buy it for 99 years, instead of forever? (Hong Kong reference) We don’t renenge on land deals, we play fair, even with our enemies.

In any event, the savages CHOSE to attack us, and we CHOSE to fight back rather than bending over. So yes, the savages were the murderers.

If I sell you my house RIGHT NOW, then I kill you for being in “my” house, then I am the murderer. YOU legally have the deed. All your friends would exact vengeance on me, or at the very least, the police would!
Do you get the “context”?

Omnipresent
“Under no initial resistance” is a bit of a red herring, BTW.
If you offer me enough for my house, I won’t “resist” selling to you.
If you buy too many houses in my neighborhood, the civilized way would be to organize the rest of the homeowners NOT to sell to you.

What the savages did was round up a posse and try to kill you for the equivalent of buying too many houses in my neighborhood. After the posse killed 1/10 of your family, you calmly shot the whole posse.
Is that a better explanation?

@EPGah
“Don’t think so.”—It is common knowledge now that you don’t think. Let’s take your example. You don’t just come and build a store on land. You pay for it. Seeing as you never paid the natives for their land then you are on stolen land. I doubt the man who puts up the store invented anything, but felt by some right he could just take the land. In the real world the natives were not just playing in sand on their lands. They had homes, crops, a lifestyle.
All your examples fail in these situation because frankly the key term here is paid for it. Something settlers did not do.
“No savages are coming here because America used to be theirs.”—False again. For example Texas used to be Mexicos. I believe some other areas fall into their too. So yea….they are returning home, but this is another straw man. I never said just Mexicans.

“Before English, German was the Prime Language, and before that, Latin was.”—False again. There were many languages, but none of them were prime ones.

“American culture of WHAT YEAR? “—That is irrelevant. The year does not change the heart of the culture.

“Are you the same person as you were 30 years ago? Or even 10?”—Nope, but that has a great deal to do with me pulling myself away from American culture.

“But if America is not a better culture, how do we still have a better country”—But you don’t have a better country. You would be surprised at the lengths your government goes through to ensure you believe that. It indoctrinate its citizens to believe that.

“anymore questions on the level of delusion of this man?”—I never questioned your delusion. I can read your post and let it stand as proof of your delusions.

“That is what you said. “—If that was what I said then you would be quoting it. The fact that you have not says a great deal. At any rate if you want to do a straw man then it would not be the first, but do stop putting words in my mouth.

“Just like America, Rhodesia was sparse or even blank land before the Civilized World built it into a COUNTRY!”—Just like America this would be another false statement with no supporting facts.

“Stealing a country is a modern thing, there has to BE a country there first!”—No it does not. Stealing by definition is taking what is not yours. If the land was not yours then you stole it. Just because you decided to call it a new name does not mean it was never stolen.

“vitriol and hate you’d be an eloquent and persuasive writer.”—I don’t think so unless he is talking to a bunch of individuals who do not do research. The heart of everything he says is a lie. Most of his rantings of paranoid rants of a mad man. Suffering from delusions of grandeur.

My comment is in moderation, but this portion I want to make very clear.

“That is what you said. “—If that was what I said then you would be quoting it. The fact that you have not says a great deal. At any rate if you want to do a straw man then it would not be the first, but do stop putting words in my mouth.

You have made the claim several times now of me saying something that I did not. If that is the tact that you must resort to then what every debate you think you have had with me has been lost several times over.

v8driver
Yes, and mostly nonwhite conquerors “interrupted” Rome’s development.
But the whites just got back up and continued.
And it should be noticed that whites and ONLY whites judged slavery ILLEGAL.
Whether or not we considered it WRONG, we made it ILLEGAL.

As to being biased, calling “White Privilege” a bad thing should be considered “biased” and thrown away. At least if we’re using the dictionary definition of “Privilege”, “Extra benefit or access earned by meritorious behavior”
When and how did that become a four letter word?
There’s a whole thread on how the Irish “mysteriously” became white, but they did so by learning how to behave, instead of insisting on behaving THEIR way in OUR country.

As to monolithic, we’re talking about a “minority” group that celebrates and angsts over being a “minority” group. Noone else suffered as much as they did, from slavery on up, right? If the majority of a group acts like X, and the rest of the group does not punish those who act X or extra X, we have every reason to suspect the group LIKES acting X, right?

Whites punished Hitler, so he was a madman.
Blacks APPLAUDED Mugabe so it was part of their DESIRED behavior, not a madman to their standards.
Is that a good illustration?

As to xenophobic, that would be true if and only if we had no indication of how a given group behaved. But we have whole COUNTRIES their behavior already ruined. Some groups, we’ve let into our country in substantial numbers, we can observe if their behavior “magically” improves from setting foot in our country. So far, I’d say they act the same or worse in our country as they do in their own, wouldn’t you?

Ever seen Star Trek? Dad bought the tapes and we watched one per night when I was a kid. The most extreme perversions of the human form were accepted because they BEHAVED. Things that looked like humans with bad mustaches and eyebrow implants were NOT accepted because they kept ATTACKING US!
Are we not supposed to judge by their behavior in real life?

As to being biased, calling “White Privilege” a bad thing should be considered “biased” and thrown away. At least if we’re using the dictionary definition of “Privilege”, “Extra benefit or access earned by meritorious behavior”

Slaughtering tens of millions in wars and genocides, deceiving and defrauding people out of land so that it could be used to extract resources, etc. are not “meritorious behavior”. It’s nation-scale robbery.

@EPGAH:

What the savages did was round up a posse and try to kill you for the equivalent of buying too many houses in my neighborhood.

Incorrect, since there is a presumption here that the dealings with the NAs were Honest. They weren’t, and employed various forms of deceit (fraud).

@EPGAH:

We don’t FORCE a lifestyle on anyone. They WANT our lifestyle, and consider it unfair if we have ANYTHING they don’t!

If they “WANTED” it and it didn’t need to be “FORCED”, then there was no need for whites to SLAUGHTER them by the MILLIONS in pursuit of granting it and try their darndest to obliterate their native culture. That was evil: murder, theft, rape, and psychological torture all in one. (Oh yeah and if you don’t think hostilities emerged until the Natives fired the first shots — WRONG. When Columbus first showed up his men took people and RAPED them. “Civilized” all right. Hostilities were established from day 1, by the Whites.)

“I DID quote it, I copied and pasted it directly.”—Aw so you were referring to that quote. But what you wrote is simply copy and paste and can been seen more as plagiarism than quoting me. Quoting it not throwing out a random sentence with no proper credit to the individual.

Here is an example of quoting: According to Roger Sipher, a solution to the perceived crisis of American education is to “Abolish compulsory-attendance laws and allow only those who are committed to getting an education to attend” (para. 3)

@EPGAH,
Also, if “whites” were truly so “civilized” and “sorry” they did all this slavery and were really trying to end it, not only would they have made it “illegal” but they would ALSO not have instituted 90 years of Jim Crow on top and instead would be or have been paying reparations to recompense the communities who were denied wealth after slavery was made “illegal”. (Seems after slavery was made “illegal” whites tried their darndest to keep Blacks as close to slaves as they could without making them actually so — almost as if the outlawing of slavery was a grudging concession instead of a whole-hearted display of “Civilization”.)

I see africa as a succession of power vaccuums from untenable states of being directly traceable to berlin 1888 i believe bolstered by cheap weapons and expedience and ulterior motives, a sad thing really.

mike4ty4
We ARE civilized, which is why we’ve abided by land sale agreements, and not killed the ex-slaves like Moslems often did when they were “done with them”.
Oprah, MJ, Sharpton, Jackson, etc. were not killed so we could take back their property. Indeed one of those is well behind on taxes, IIRC?

Once the slaves were no longer our PROPERTY, by all logic, they should no longer be our PROBLEM right? We’re off the hook for their upkeep and all that? (Except with the Rise of the Welfare State, we are essentially THEIR slaves, but I think we’re supposed to ignore that?)

BUT that assumes the slaves just stopped existing once they stopped being property. They didn’t, they went directly from “property” (HELPING you make a profit) to “rival” (OBSTACLE to you making a profit), and in some cases, outright ENEMY (KILLING you to prevent you making a profit). So self-preservation would lead us to make the obstacle as small as possible and the enemy as safe as possible, right?
Jim Crow Laws varied from State to State, depending on the severity of the perceived threat. Which State do you want to go through?
One of them had literacy tests for voting. Only people who could READ could vote! I think that’s a GREAT idea, needed now!

Why pay reparations to the enemy? Where are the reparations for the chumps who bought slaves, and were abruptly divested of very expensive property? Or is it because they lost the war, they don’t DESERVE reparations?

What if your car or your computer went from being your property to your enemy? Would you pay it or try to destroy it? How much did you pay for your car, and would that amount of money prevent you putting a bullet through/between the headlights?
If only there were some highly allegorical movies about our machine property turning on us. Get Schwarzenegger on the phone, he’d be good for 3-4 of such movies!

mike4ty4
Also remember, when they WERE offered a chance to get “out from under” AND reparations…Most REFUSED!
·Their own land–FREE
·Their own livestock–FREE
·Their own tools–FREE
·Their own effort determines how much they get!

Maybe they thought it was an MLM scal, but depending whose stats you take as Gospel, only 9,000-13,000 took them up on the Deal..OVER 100 YEARS!
(Lincoln to Eisenhower!)
Modern cruise ships carry more than that–plus passengers–every trip!

Maybe they weren’t crazy or desperate enough to leave, and the real ungrateful complaining wouldn’t begin until the 1960s?
Maybe they knew it would be overthrown as soon as America yanked the Marines that acted as Border Patrol for them?
Maybe if more had gone, they would not have been overthrown?

@taotesan
“To be called a white ‘African’ (writing this hurts me) ties in, not with any nationalist, patriotic or any romantic notion, but with their unbridled capitalistic rapacity and their perverted ideology that they are God’s chosen people (Afrikaners) so they are entitled to all our land.”

When I read about “god’s chosen people” (Afrikaners) I had a good laugh. I am sorry but I do not trust them. They could plant a nuclear weapon in South Africa or even assassinate your president. Their kind of racism is so fresh and pure that it makes American racism look like Godly love.

Dang it!!! I finally get around to finding his reply and he’s gone?
The thing that he fails to understand is that most white immigration WAS done because white people wanted to get away from other white people.
That most of ‘his’ country’s wars: both World Wars, the Cold War, the Civil War, the Mexican-American War (Spain is European and white – he agrees), the War of 1812, the Revolutionary War and the Seven Year War – were fought against OTHER WHITE PEOPLE.
So much for being a civilized people.
(And yes, it was fun having him around.)

Well, it’s not like you have a large group of posters there, and commenters – for some people – are hard to come by, so I can understand you being far less discriminating… Besides, I didn’t see you disagreeing with a lot of its mess before IT was banned.

I suspect that you may not have enjoyed ITS presence here because IT was stealing away much of the attention you were formerly getting. lol

“If you refuse to do so, then I know you’re not seriously interested in what my political leanings are ….”

You’re kidding, right?? (Nice try … lol)
Even the walking dead KNOW what your politics are… which is why to a very large degree you stand OUT here. Much of what you, if not all you do here, is talk about the donkeys and the elephants. That’s why people like me don’t take you very seriously. You infinitely dodge the root issues, even when it’s politely explained to you.

“I am tired of trying to justify myself to everybody here 24/7, but I will keep at it.”

No one is buying your justifications because they are found bogus and irrelevant to what OUR day to day experiences are. If you wish to be taken seriously and not ignored (or used for entertainment) you need to come in here through a door of OUR shared circumstance. The door you approached and entered in here (your circumstance) just ain’t working!

I was going to write a sober response to your comment, but this popped into my mind and ran away with me. (Still trying to write, but feeling a little brain-dead at the moment.)

No, I do not ride zebras. It is a surprise to any African that zebras could be ridden, but I do have pet lion, Nelson, whom I walk with to my child’s school every day. I go about my day to day life in a loin cloth, with my breasts bared. Who is this Levi, Tommy Hilfiger and Donna Karan? I wrote this article, in African, had it translated into English by a special seer, in feather pen, in long hand, in my village , on papyrus and sent it cross-Atlantic by carrier pigeon. I do not know how to read. I have never heard of Shakespeare, Jackie Collins, Brendan Behan or Noam Chomsky. When trying to contact a relative long distance, I walk for miles and ululate in special code. What is this thing called a cell phone? My stomach is still digesting the GMO maize meal so generously donated by the USA, with mopane worms and chicken feet. I do not know what a quiche Lorraine, fettuccini carbonara or Nigiri is. When we listen to music, a goat must be slaughtered, and its hide cured and made into a djembe drum and we dance and ululate around the fireplace. I have never heard of Tchaikovsky, Whitney Houston, Eminem, Tupac or Bono.

I must tell you I have never had the AIDS. I am afraid of needles. I know this is too much information and you probably would not believe me, but my private parts are intact. What is this Princess Diana and Prince Albert piercings? When I have that thing Europeans call influenza, (not affluenza) I boil special herbs in water from the river that USA dumps their toxic waste. It tastes horrible. What is antibiotics? I do not have the Ebola either. Mzanzi or South Africa is closer to Antarctica than to Sierra Leone and Guinea. It’s about 9000 km. Sierra Leone is closer to New York (7063 km) than Cape Town. My sister tells me there are white people in America who have the Ebola.

In my hut, I use special cow-dung. I do not know magic white light. I have no idea how to re-heat a pizza, or how to load a washing machine. I have never heard of Mies van der rohe or Buckminster Fuller. Before my daughter goes to school, she walks barefoot in the dark, to collect firewood. I also rise early to collect water for bathing and drinking water. But I heard a lot about this TV, you know, the big box where the people who talk funny in the English tongue, live. My brother tells me that that ladies with long blond hair like to kiss a lot and like the sex with different men. He also says that the people, even the women with the sun-hair and no skin colour and white-white teeth like shooting people a lot. They have better guns than the Russian AK-47s and Kalashnikovs. . I do not like guns. My brother’s wife wants a weave like the Black ladies in the TV. You can buy a weave from the Chinese corner shop. Me, I am just a wash and leave. I also hear in America white fat people are dying from malnutrition.

When I travelled to the USA, I crossed the Atlantic Ocean in a dhow and then hitched a ride, monkey grip on Boeing 747.

I know there is a Black President in America, but my brother,he tells me that there is going to be another Black president, who is very, very rich, just like our president, but he is white and has a carpet on his head, just like our president who has a shower on his head.

Ha, I love these Quizes. got 50/54 but I do them all the time. I couldn’t remember the english spelling of four countries. Also this test doesn’t forcde you to match country and its name, for example I never now which one of the islands is which.

Africa is broken, how could it not be after more than five hundred years of near genocidal exploitation? The real question is how to repair the damage done. Only people like Mugabe have the balls to take on the task of repairing the damage.

While trying to find decent reference books about the continent of Africa I have learned many books are written by whites who view Africa with a white lens and they are not objective. What I am learning is the language used in these reference books, for example “darkest Africa or black Africa. There is something very unsettling about that type of language. I want to make smart choices when I purchase reference books any suggestions will be welcome.

As I said it wan’t the first time I did such a quiz. I have no idea how much I scored when I did an Africa nation quiz for the first time. Also I learned all African states by heart as a child.
I couldn’t remember the English spelling of Mauritania, Equitorial Guinea, Sao Tome e Principe, Djibouti and other.

@ Mary I can’t think off hand the exact titles with authors.
I will come back to you soonest.

Off- hand, I would highly recommend Guyanese Walter Rodney’s seminal work: How Europe Underdeveloped Africa. It is information dense beginning with the European slave trade of Africans to neo colonialism in Africa.

Kwame Nkrumah’ Decolonization.

Timbuktu by Diagne.

I can’t get the the title or author of Ancient Egyptian history. The historian was Caribbean and I think he was assissinated. I had read it a few years ago and the historians name eludes me.

A Comparative Study of South African and American History by Frederickson.

On my shelf and not yet read: Half a yellow Sun by Adichi
Chancellor Williams by The Destruction of Black Civilization
Revolution by Frantz Fanon.
Most of my books are packed away, and just can’t recollect.

Perhaps you could tell me the region and era that you might be interested in.
A good place to start would also be a light introduction through literature.

Quick
What is the name of the small African country with an American miltary base?
Clue:Which you might hear about in a few months time when the US announces that country needs a regime change or needs to install ‘democracy’
Another clue: China has troops there.

What is the name of the island in the Indian Ocean which Britain has stolen from its inhabitants and had sold it to the United States, which is now populated by Americans with its military base and what is the name of the island in the Indian Ocean which the the inhabitants were relocated and now live in abject poverty?
village writer and michaeljonbarker know the answer.

“the name of the island in the Indian Ocean which Britain has stolen from its inhabitants and had sold it to the United States, which is now populated by Americans with its military base and what is the name of the island in the Indian Ocean which the the inhabitants were relocated and now live in abject poverty?”

John Pilger was the investigative journalist who brought it to the world’d attention.

And resw, it is through the Queen of England’s seal, that this crime is allowed to continue.

And do Americans know about one of the most outrageous crimes of the 20st century?

“Today, the main island of Diego Garcia is America’s largest military base in the world, outside the US. There are more than 4,000 troops, two bomber runways, thirty warships and a satellite spy station. The Pentagon calls it an “indispensable platform” for policing the world. It was used as a launch pad for the invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq.”

“Since you are so smart on African geography and all, perhaps another post on Africa from your pen is in order.”

LOL. Posts on present-day Africa are hard for me because I know from experience that I sit on the other side of a huge Eurocentric lens. For African history, I have better sources. So, the Songhay Empire, say, is much easier for me to do a post on than South Africa.

That said, on a blog like this, I cannot NOT do posts on South Africa and apartheid. And Zimbabwe too. And, because Mary’s suggestions are almost always good, Trevor Noah.

Thank you for that video link. I love Trevor Noah. I even tried to book tickets to see him on my next trip to New York.

After hearing his testimony, it reminds me of a lot that I grew up with too. It was not until I was in college that I shared a hotel room together with both my parents – and that was in Boston, not in the South. I find it inspiring that he can make a joke of it now and make others laugh.

I am also an autodidact like you. I think learning about the History of Africa is so important in the diaspora. I have learnt about my own history(through woven interconnections) by learning about African American History.

Experiencing a fever of moods, amidst tumult here, so apology for replying in my own time.

Ivan Van Sertima was born in Guyana.He is a literary critic, a linguist, an anthropologist and has made a name in all three fields.

He has also been honoured as an historian of world repute by being asked to join UNESCO’s International Commission for Rewriting the Scientific and Cultural History of Mankind. A small sampling from a prolific writer:

Dr. John Henrik Clarke, was a Pan-Africanist writer, historian, professor, and a pioneer in the creation of Africana studies and professional institutions. Molefi Kete Asante listed Dr. John Henrik Clarke as one of his 100 Greatest African Americans.

1.”Nile Valley Contributions to Civilization: Exploding the Myths ”
2″.Dawn Voyage: The Black African Discovery of America”
3.”Christopher Columbus and the Afrikan Holocaust: Slavery and the Rise of European Capitalism” ,amongst many other books. (I had half-read this on pdf and it is brilliant. I had also read that he was a teacher par excellence.

Toyin Omoyeni Falola is a Nigerian historian and professor of African Studies.
1.”Colonialism and Violence”.
2.”The power of African cultures”.

Chancellor Williams was an African-American sociologist, historian and writer. He is noted for his work on African civilizations prior to encounters with Europeans. his major work is:

1. “The Destruction of Black Civilization”.

Yosef Alfredo Antonio Ben-Jochannan,was an African-American writer and historian. He was considered to be one of the more prominent Afrocentric scholars.

I apologize, if you were interested you would not have found it by my previous description.

Joseph Ki-Zerbo was a Burkinabé historian, politician and writer. He was recognized as one of Africa’s foremost thinkers. Ki-Zerbo campaigned internationally to make make slavery as a crime against humanity and that Africa should get reparations for it, too.

1. “History of Black Africa” originally written in French.

I have not read anything from a Black South African historian’s pen. However, not quite historical, but urgently, one of the most important books, is Steve Biko’s: “I Write What I Like.”

If you might be interested in South African history, there is an online history written by both Black and white authors.

It has been a while that I have been to my local library. Most of the books I had read a long time ago on History/Archeaology/ Anthropology of Southern and West Africa were authored by white academics.

Correction: “Toward the African Revolution” By Frantz Fanon

I had also read “Black Skin,White Masks” and “The Wretched of the Earth”, both hard to read, but worth the effort.

I would add: “Precolonial Black Africa” by Cheikh Anta Diop, who was an historian, anthropologist, physicist and politician who studied the human race’s origins and pre-colonial African culture. He was a towering intellectual.

Some I have read, half-read and quite a few are on my wish-list, if I had the time and money (and attention span).

I would love to own Unesco General History of Africa” volumes 1-V111.

Entirely at your convenience and schedule, could you let me know if it was at all helpful and what you book/s you had decided on and your take on them?
No rush.

You might want to dip into a few of these online news wbsites. Honestly, I am the last person to vouch for any newspaper, as I have tremendous feeling that I am lied to and the news seems obscured to demonize Black people as the only corrupt ones, that criminality is essentially a Black enterprise and white plutocracy does not exist, even though there are excellent Black editors such as Justice Malala and previously Ferial Haffejee (I grew up with her) of the “Mail And Guardian” – mg.co.za. Most of the news is still dominated by whites.
I go through spells when I cannot bear to read or watch the news for a long while.

That being said,I would recommend
(http://mg.co.za/) with usually excellent editorials &

By brain is percolating, and stomach queasy scanning all the rave reviews and critiques of “Cry, The Beloved Country” that has won Alan Paton critical acclaim and is probably the widest read book on South Africa.

I have not read the book and am way too jaundiced to write a balanced critique on a dead white man’s paternalistic juvenile dehumanization of Black people. The white liberal is the one who tells us how to respond to his kick.

For now, I had picked up that book was a ‘poetic and nuanced lyricism” of a quixotic look into pre-apartheid South Africa.

Interestingly, Alan Paton’s widow had scurried back to England, after Nelson Mandela was the first (Black) democratically elected President. She complained South Africa was too violent. When one of the most evil systems was about to be codified, she and her late husband opted to stay put.

I will come back to you tomorrow with some kind of synthesis, Abagond.

Are you reading it at the moment or have seen the film with James Earl Jones
and Charles S. Dutton?

If you do, if I may offer that you read Steve Biko’s ‘I Write What I Like’ as a perfect counterpoint to white liberalism in South Africa.

“The Covenant” was banned in South Africa during apartheid. That in itself should not carry the have to read, because it was verboten. It was merely banned because Michener had wrote about apartheid in his particular style. I have not read “The Covenant” either.

Although, through blurbs, it starts with the San migration, it has a lens through Afrikaners and their history, hundreds of pages long. You will come out dirty. That the tome ends in 1980, when the country was in political turmoil, I do not think justifies reading 900 pages.

If there are any questions or suggestions, I could e-mail you.
(You are catching me out as my reading of late has been from the pen of African American and Caribbean writers).

” it reminds me of a lot that I grew up with too. It was not until I was in college that I shared a hotel room together with both my parents – and that was in Boston, not in the South”

I do not share your stance on Kiwi’s antipathy towards Black people.

That said, I am tremendously saddened to read your story with your mother and father.

I have read a bit about Jim Crow South, but were there codified laws like the ‘immorality act’ , ‘mixed marriages act’ as in South Africa, that legally made such unions illegal, punishable to the full-extent of the law?

In some way, if my child was born during Jim Crow or apartheid, tragedy such as yours, Trevor Noah and Bessie Head would have been befallen my small family.

He is extremely clever, if you know what I mean, to embody magnanimity and self-deprecation showing up the absolute absurdity behind personal tragedy. One can laugh, go mad, like Bessie Head, or die of a broken heart like my half-brother.

@taotesan: I thank you for your wonderful suggestions I have decided to go with the UNESCO General History of Africa Volumes. However I will definitely explore some of the other books you suggested. Many thanks sister.🤓🤓

As a person that subscribes to Black consciousness, I cannot recommend” ‘Cry, The Beloved Country” the liberals handbook, in good conscience. If you do, use James Baldwin’s understanding of white innocence, and Biko’s appraisal of the white liberal to thoroughly appreciate the project of white South Africans instant self exoneration of crimes against humanity, whilst successfully demonizing the Black (criminals) victims, casting themselves (whites) as civilizing saviours and victims of pinned privilege. This book is one of those.

Of all the reviews, not one Black voice was amongst the praise.

I can’t read anything written by white South Africans without thick cynical cataracts. Strained to yet give good recommendations, because most books are still published white authors.

Quite long, dismiss if necessary.
From studynotes and reviews: (that you won’t find on goodreads)

My obtuse understanding of interweaving Alan Paton’s life and that of the ‘white antagonist’, fleshed out an the white protagonist, this is a beautifully written book about the skin deep understanding of the liberal. Paton, concedes that the South African Black is broken by cultural decimation, through enforced labour, and land loss, through the white exploitation. The landowner Jarvis/ Paton, cannot go below the skin of genocide and slavery and recent recipients of African land, to see that they themselves are the criminals and invaders.

Instead they are come with ersatz Christianity as means of reconciling the irreconcilable. The landowner offering cheap benevolent philosophy to the victim is small change, a pro-active balm against an intuitive sense that white people deserved to be killed for their crimes. The same Christianity that has made the landless, beasts of burden, docile, preaches to the Black man to love his oppressor. There is no sense of irony through Paton, that Jarvis that he is a settler, an invader, but some-one tied to the land, as echoed in Alan Paton living on acres and acres of land, displacing the Native and relying on him for mining, and domestic servitude, and the indentured servitude of subcontinental Indians(in Kwa Zulu Natal).

That the book was published before 1948, just when virulent Nazi-inspired racism codified under Afrikaner apartheid, was put in place, his vision of South Africa , though quixotic, yet Paton himself and his white ‘protaganists’ never found apartheid repugnant enough to up and leave in disgust to their mother country, merely offering a critique of the status quo, on the racist uncles of Afrikanerdom.

The Afrikaners gave the British and Jewish liberals shade to tolerate the worst abominations. Merely , by describing the abominations and offering advice to the Native about his own liberation through a foreign ‘civilizing’ Christianity betrays the paternalism of the white saviour, without really doing anything, except to dispense maudlin, schmaltzy forgiveness, in a flipped script, that is not theirs to forgive. The liberal colonist gets to keep the land and the minerals, his own religion, obscene wealth hypocritical dependence on cheap labour and the saved façade of goodly ‘anti-racism’, power, exemption from psychological torture, and arrogance to lecture the Indigine, dispensing ‘philanthropy’ through civilizing the already dismembered,disenfranchised and dispossessed.

Any white man killing any black person would have gotten off scot- free. As a matter of fact less than a handful over the last century and a bit has been jailed for killing, stealing, raping any Black man and woman. Khumalo is jailed for killing the settlers son, who forgives him. The unnatural bending forced upon Africans to endure the most abnormal circumstances with no way out is out of the criticism of the white man who is the originator of that abnormality. My words not, Paton’s.

Sophisticated white man’s tears where ‘forgiveness’ is not theirs to give. Alan Paton and Jarvis stayed put on land that was stripped from Blacks 1913 Native Land Act. They did not give it up back then, and they still have not given it back now.

Yes, poportunities have indeed opened up for some South Africans across the board. There are now a few millionaires and a middle-class due to entrepreneurship. ( I, myself am had two failed small businesses- one being freshly prepared vegan and vegetarian food ).There was no Black middl-class twenty years ago.

Most however , are situated in the corporate environment. Before, all that talent was consigned as cheap labour. However, many people have good ideas, but the failure rate for entrepreneurship is very high compared to other countries – about 70% due to complex reasons- competition for markets, not having requisite business skills, lack of role model emulation, high interest rates for start-up , lack of infrastructure, lack of finance due to lack of assets, background of terrible education system and an alloy of other reasons.

What I am more concerned about is the Black and Coloured membership of the Democratic Aliance. The DA is essentially a Jewish and afrikaner party. Some Blacks do not see that they are being played even with leadership positions the top positions, like mayorship. The top echelons of the party are not Black and has strong ties with Zionism. Its unstated mission is to re-install white rule, applying similar undermining tactics as the Jewish presence in the NAACP.