RPGWatch 2008 Game of the Year - Best RPG

January 9th, 2009, 11:35

The last two weeks of the year you have been able to vote for what you think was the best RPG in 2008. I'm sure those that have voted have been waiting for the results, so here they are.
We also added the choice we as editors made for the best RPG in 2008, which shows a remarkable resemblance of the top 3 games, with one exception.
If you also like to know what the best MMORPG of 2008 was then you can check that out on our MMOWatch site.More information.

-- In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. Douglas AdamsA lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. Winston ChurchillSome cause happiness wherever they go; others whenever they go. Oscar Wilde

Sorry, I have to come down on this. [In Paraphrase of the article] The Fallout 3 is every bit as "exploratory" as is Mass effects "exploration". So to name that as an upper hand Fallout 3 has, is a flat out lie. Not just plain old Jobs reality distortion factor. IMHO all other usual RPG points are on Mass Effects side (although it is not without serious flaws of its own).

If you're referring to Mass Effect's generic planets, I very much disagree. If you mean stuff like the Citadel, yeah, maybe, but the Citadel was pretty awesome in my book. The wastelands look so much better than Mass Effect's planets for one and are more diverse. On top of that, there are a host of things you can find with related quests (and not the generic type).

Originally Posted by Xizor
Sorry, I have to come down on this. [In Paraphrase of the article] The Fallout 3 is every bit as "exploratory" as is Mass effects "exploration". So to name that as an upper hand Fallout 3 has, is a flat out lie. Not just plain old Jobs reality distortion factor. IMHO all other usual RPG points are on Mass Effects side (although it is not without serious flaws of its own).

My 2c, flame on.

I tried, but I really don't understand what you just said.

Are you saying Fallout 3 is less "exploratory" than Mass Effect? If so, I guess you mean that exploration is not as worthwhile as it is in Mass Effect.

Personally, I think perhaps the very best part of Fallout 3 IS how many different areas there are to explore, and unlike Oblivion, those areas are relatively distinct and come with their own unique twists and story-related rewards.

On the other hand, I think both Mass Effect and Fallout 3 fall short in terms of RPG mechanics - but Mass Effect is a much bigger offender in that way.

DArtagnan

With a website which heavily focuses on RPGs. I have to say it is sad when FPS - RPG hybrids take the two tops spots, followed by a strategy - RPG hybrid. What a sad state the CRPG world is in. I could not see the voting be any different though since there simply wasn't any high quality classic RPG releases out!

At least the editors second place is a bit of comfort, however the spiderweb games keep being the same without evolving that much, they cannot keep on forever.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan
I tried, but I really don't understand what you just said.

Are you saying Fallout 3 is less "exploratory" than Mass Effect? If so, I guess you mean that exploration is not as worthwhile as it is in Mass Effect.

Personally, I think perhaps the very best part of Fallout 3 IS how many different areas there are to explore, and unlike Oblivion, those areas are relatively distinct and come with their own unique twists and story-related rewards.

On the other hand, I think both Mass Effect and Fallout 3 fall short in terms of RPG mechanics - but Mass Effect is a much bigger offender in that way.

Apologies, I meant to point out that both games have absolutely horrible experience of exploration, hence "exploratory". So I think to name one dead awful experience as an upper hand over another dead awful experience is just a lie.

IMO Fallout 3 had more graphically varied exploration, but the things to do are always the same. Mass Effect had superficially varied graphics and the things to do were always the same. Since I care more for other elements than graphics, the experience of exploration is just as bad in both games.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
With a website which heavily focuses on RPGs. I have to say it is sad when FPS - RPG hybrids take the two tops spots, followed by a strategy - RPG hybrid. What a sad state the CRPG world is in. I could not see the voting be any different though since there simply wasn't any high quality classic RPG releases out!

At least the editors second place is a bit of comfort, however the spiderweb games keep being the same without evolving that much, they cannot keep on forever.

Absolutely agree on both counts - these are not bad games, but reflect very poorly on the state of RPG games in general and PC RPG's in particular.

Originally Posted by Xizor
Apologies, I meant to point out that both games have absolutely horrible experience of exploration, hence "exploratory". So I think to name one dead awful experience as an upper hand over another dead awful experience is just a lie. IMO

Fallout 3 had more graphically varied exploration, but the things to do are always the same. Mass Effect had superficially varied graphics and the things to do were always the same. Since I care more for other elements than graphics, the experience of exploration is just as bad in both games.

Well, then we just disagree

I care about graphics a lot, but less so the actual quality of graphics. I'm talking about variety - which is just as big a part of exploration as anything else.

Fallout 3 had a lot of unique areas and I mean BEYOND simply graphical variety. I'm talking about story and characters. You'd stumble upon audio tapes with unique voice acting that told you to go somewhere and find something, you'd often find computers with relatively "meaty" log entries that detail something story-related, and you'd just as often find NPCs that had no relation to the main quest. I found several "puzzles" in the shape of said log entires or some trigger that activated something else.

I don't know exactly what you're looking for, but to me Fallout 3 represents some of the very best exploration I've seen in recent years. Considering the scope of the game, I came away very impressed by this aspect of it.

I'm interested to know what other games you've played that have superior "exploratory" elements. I can't think of many, especially not open world non-linear games. Even the Gothic franchise doesn't hold up in terms of the sheer amount of unique locations with non-quest related lore.

Mass Effect, on the other hand, had very weak exploration. All the side-quests were basically rehashes of the same 2-3 texture sets on a handful of planets. Story elements were slim and mostly text-based, and since all planets were empty except for the 2-3 locations meant to be explored - it all added up to a bland experience. The main quest areas were well done, but all were overly linear and predictable. But that's par for the course, and even KOTOR (my personal favorite Bioware CRPG) suffered from the same linear structure. The only non-linearity is that you can choose which planet/area to explore first, basically.

DArtagnan

Perhaps we could jot down my dislike of Fallout 3 to me being tied to the previous titles of the franchise, more than execution itself. Fallout 3 disappointed me on all fronts I really liked in F1&2, like story, dialogue quality, cultural references and such. I cannot detach from F1&2 enough to enjoy F3, even though it is an immense step up from Oblivion from my point of view.

I generally like more linear approach to gaming, such as BioWare exhibits in their games. Open ended elements like in the GTA series (just driving, exploring cities, routes, hidden things) mostly do not peak my interest, after completing missions in GTAs I simply stopped playing. Practically the only games I enjoy that are not strongly story driven are 4x games. So, even though I could not be considered an expert on exploration I do enjoy the sense of discovery. For the example System shock series were excellent to me in that regard, even though they are probably not the most non-linear games around.

Back on topic, I sure do hope that some of the upcoming titles in 2009 (Dragon Age, Age of Decadence etc), make up for this one. Perhaps the hope is forlorn, but I will not relinquish it.

Originally Posted by Xizor
Apologies, I meant to point out that both games have absolutely horrible experience of exploration, hence "exploratory". So I think to name one dead awful experience as an upper hand over another dead awful experience is just a lie.

IMO Fallout 3 had more graphically varied exploration, but the things to do are always the same. Mass Effect had superficially varied graphics and the things to do were always the same. Since I care more for other elements than graphics, the experience of exploration is just as bad in both games.

Um, no. In Mass Effect, the things to do really *were* always the same. In FO3, you have genuinely varied side-quests. You really have to stretch the meaning of "same" if you file, say, Agatha's violin, the stuff going on in Canterbury Commons, the Big Town sequence, and Them! "same" the same way ME's drive-around-and-blast-things-then-raid-an-outpost side-quests were "same."

Originally Posted by Xizor
Perhaps we could jot down my dislike of Fallout 3 to me being tied to the previous titles of the franchise, more than execution itself. Fallout 3 disappointed me on all fronts I really liked in F1&2, like story, dialogue quality, cultural references and such. I cannot detach from F1&2 enough to enjoy F3, even though it is an immense step up from Oblivion from my point of view.

That's a legitimate point of view; I can't help thinking "but FO did this so much better" every so often either. But from there to stating that FO3's exploration is just as boring and pointless as ME's is more of a stretch -- it's, in fact, what you called the article that prompted you to comment on this thread: a lie.

I would of guessed that King's Bounty was a sure win for first vs. the others. I really didn't expect Fallout 3 to take first over here, sure it's pretty but the beauty fades the farther you get in the game and when you try to take the narrative seriously.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Prime Junta
Um, no. In Mass Effect, the things to do really *were* always the same. In FO3, you have genuinely varied side-quests. You really have to stretch the meaning of "same" if you file, say, Agatha's violin, the stuff going on in Canterbury Commons, the Big Town sequence, and Them! "same" the same way ME's drive-around-and-blast-things-then-raid-an-outpost side-quests were "same."

What's so bad about things being the same, as long as it makes sense. Some of the best games had a lot of the "sameness" to it like the old Starflight games. That was always the same, land on a planet, find animals/plants, minerals or artifacts and go off and sell them. Sometimes you'll find a recording that will send you to a new planet to explore, but it was pretty much the same and it is one of the best hybrid Rpgs around still, imo Mass effect felt a little like that at least moreso than Fallout.

I can understand the above searching and exploring new planets to bring back resources, but Fallout 3's sidequest or exploration didn't make any sense at all. Agatha's Violin or even worse Harold's sidequest did not make any sense whatsoever. Don't get me started on what they did to Harold.

@ Prime Junta Sorry friend, I still think of F3 as boring as Mass Effect. I do agree that these kinds of lists are made on the basis of personal preferences, and can never cater for everyone. Simply, for me the shortcomings of F3 do not give it the upper hand over the shortcomings of ME.

Don't even get me started on the Big Town quest. The freighter full of dead people in ME was more interesting. Perhaps I can get over the same boring sequence of Mako ride more easilly than seeing a good idea (even though exploited many times before) go to waste with such shoddy work.

No, not everyone's choice can win. You can't, however, escape the fact that of the thousands of respondents to this poll, a meaningful proportion thought FO3 was better than ME.

We didn't ask them why they liked it more but I'd put hard cash down that a large chunk would choose "exploration" as the reason. You don't have to agree but it's a hell of stretch to call what I wrote a "lie".

Dhruin, the wording I chose was designed to kick a conversation off. More people will join in if you call it a lie than a stretch. It was not meant to be insultive, I really appreciate the work that is put in this site.

I do not take polls seriously, do enjoy a good argument though.
For the example, if I wanted to kick things further I'd say that in a fictional poll on whether the stoning of unfaithful women is good and just, in certain parts of the world a poll would say yes. Does it make it good in any way?

I voted for Mass Effect, since I loved the story, characters and overall game universe. FO3 would've been a close second though, so I don't mind the two topping the poll.

As for "RPG hybrids" dominating - I do not consider Mass Effect an RPG hybrid. Having FPS combat does not automatically make it a hybrid - was Might & Magic 6 ever considered a "RPG + FPS hybrid"?. It certainly has FPS combat, but beyond that it has nothing in common with action games. Combat, in my opinion, has absoluttely nothing to do with whether or not a game is considered a real RPG or not.