I've never thought of Golden St last year as a major choke job, at least not on the level of the Falcons last week, the '04 Yankees or '92 Oilers. Green being a doofus and getting suspended, losing Bogut and them being a jump shooting team (meaning they will be hot and cold), was the perfect storm for the Cavs, and it still took an all-time great performance by LBJ for them to barely win the series. While the blower of a big lead has to do a lot wrong to be on the wrong end of an epic comeback, I can't look back at the Warriors and point to a lot of things they did wrong that cost them the series, other than their shot selection in the last minute of game 7. With the Falcons, the list is long of ways they bungled that game.

Yeah, I agree. And it's hard to even call the shot selection a "mistake" when that is absolutely, 100% their game plan and is what works for them the vast majority of the time.

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"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Not to get into an NBA quibble in the NFL thread, but I would submit that the area Golden St blew it was by not altering their game plan. In the last two minutes of that game, the Cavs were basically daring the Warriors to take it to the hoop for easy 2s, yet the Warriors kept jacking up 3s. Cleveland basically gambled that the Warriors overrealiance on the 3 would get the best of them, and they were right. The inability to change on the fly makes you Kyle Shanahan.

It looks like we can have common ground of various disappointments, with each of feeling they are different degrees? We are only able to really comment on events that we witness IMO. There is a lot of context too with each of the so-called chokes; hate that phrase honestly in team sports. Especially gridiron, with the teams being so large. But with the context, the lead up and aftershocks shape a lot of it. Not to mention the culture/society present at the time.

So that is why I maybe put more stock in GSW losing- best record, alleged better team than the one with arguably one of the best players of all time. Loses in game seven, at home, to a team that just won a championship for a city that hadn't won one for 50+ years? A city that was hit hard too by the recession. Boston and ATL didn't have that level of context IMO.

I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.

Non-sequitur. Innocent folk turn themselves in all the time. If you gotta be arrested it's always best to do it on your own terms. Catch a nice buzz. Wear a nice suit for that dapper mugshot. Time it so you don't have to wait long for your arraignment. Have your lawyer there with you and cash for bail. This is how the cool kids do it.

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Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows. E.F. Benson

I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.

Non-sequitur. Innocent folk turn themselves in all the time. If you gotta be arrested it's always best to do it on your own terms. Catch a nice buzz. Wear a nice suit for that dapper mugshot. Time it so you don't have to wait long for your arraignment. Have your lawyer there with you and cash for bail. This is how the cool kids do it.

Next thing we know, you'll be calling yourself Nomad. Sterilize...sterilize...sterilize

Anybody who turns themselves in for the reasons you just mentioned, deserves to be thrown in jail.

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Everything that CAN go wrong, WILL go wrong ...and if nothing has gone wrong...you obviously DON'T UNDERSTAND the situation.

I heard Revis turned himself in to police so he must've done something.

Non-sequitur. Innocent folk turn themselves in all the time. If you gotta be arrested it's always best to do it on your own terms. Catch a nice buzz. Wear a nice suit for that dapper mugshot. Time it so you don't have to wait long for your arraignment. Have your lawyer there with you and cash for bail. This is how the cool kids do it.

What don't you like about it? I don't know much other than the numbers. I'd like to get another perspective.

I liked the fact that it was front loaded. If something happens to slow his production towards the end of it the team won't be left with a big cap hit.

Where to begin... I think his off the field antics are just becoming too much and that admittedly clouds my judgement on the issue. But looking at it from a clearer standpoint, I think he's a great WR who is starting to decline. So the length of the agreement is a little longer for my taste. It's also rumored in Pittsburgh that Ben is only going to play for a couple more years, so once Ben is gone, AB is pointless, Ben made AB what he is today. See last season when Ben was out and Jones was QB. AB not only sucked, he chewed out Jones for not getting him the ball more, cause you know, stats.

There are more reasons but basically those are my first couple thoughts. I would have had him play out his deal next year to see if his off the field antics were any better.

Seems like just about every time a great WR is given a big money contract, his production dips. I won't be surprised when the same happens with Brown. The Steelers had to give him that deal, but they just handicapped their ability to fix the holes on their team.

What don't you like about it? I don't know much other than the numbers. I'd like to get another perspective.

I liked the fact that it was front loaded. If something happens to slow his production towards the end of it the team won't be left with a big cap hit.

Where to begin... I think his off the field antics are just becoming too much and that admittedly clouds my judgement on the issue. But looking at it from a clearer standpoint, I think he's a great WR who is starting to decline. So the length of the agreement is a little longer for my taste. It's also rumored in Pittsburgh that Ben is only going to play for a couple more years, so once Ben is gone, AB is pointless, Ben made AB what he is today. See last season when Ben was out and Jones was QB. AB not only sucked, he chewed out Jones for not getting him the ball more, cause you know, stats.

There are more reasons but basically those are my first couple thoughts. I would have had him play out his deal next year to see if his off the field antics were any better.

I'm hoping (quite possibly foolishly) that his antics are over with. At least the extreme ones like the face book broadcast.

Your point about Ben making AB what he is is a very good point. It was the same case with Mike Wallace before that, and I'm sure that if I think hard enough that I can come up with a couple of other examples as well.

The Steelers had to give him that deal, but they just handicapped their ability to fix the holes on their team.

Yes and no. Definitely from a money stand point. They have to sign Bell soon, also. However, under their previous GM they got a reputation for not paying players, and I have to wonder if it might have cost them the opportunity to sign some good players over the years because would stay away ect... They have to prove that they're not going to be complete tight wallets in the future.

I'm hoping that with Martavis Bryant returning, and with the development of this past season's rookies the team won't have very many holes to fill.

“People figured out that the white thing that comes out of cows' titties could be drunk, and the relation between sweet desires and women's bellies growing up for 9 months. It can't be THAT hard to figure out how a trumpet works.”

This makes me REALLY happy as a fan. Not that any of those names are likely to light it up on the field and instantly make them contenders. But these are solid, experienced players that can hopefully provide a bit of stability, and should be able to be acquired for pretty modest prices. That, to me, is EXACTLY what they should be looking to do. The team is a mess and needs to be rebuilt from top to bottom. They aren't going to rebuild it in a season or two. This shows me that they have a long term plan and aren't just rushing to throw away money on big names that will get them back to mediocre. They are filling gaps with solid but not dazzling choices that are going to come at a reasonable price, while taking their time and saving their money while waiting for those guys that may develop into stars. There was talk about them spending big to pick up Cousins, and I felt like that would have been a HUGE mistake. First off, they would have overpayed. Second, despite his skills and experience, I'm not sure he is the type of guy that can provide stability to an organization while they rebuild. Third, in this organization, given the lack of skilled players on the O-line and at the receiver position (although better with the receivers they picked up), he would have gotten killed in the backfield and had awful numbers, which can often destroy a QB's confidence and ruin him as a player. I am really glad they didn't rush to pick him up or go after a QB high in the draft when next year's class looks to be a lot better than this year's.

Again, these are not dazzling moves. But they are smart moves that show a calculated, common-sense, long-term plan, and that is something this organization has lacked. I have hope again.

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"The Supreme Court of the United States has descended from the disciplined legal reasoning of John Marshall and Joseph Story to the mystical aphorisms of the fortune cookie."

Talk is Pats trading Butler to N.O. for reciever Cooks. Sounds like they couldn't come to a deal and want to get something in return.

I don't like it at all.

Oh I'd love this deal for New England. Cooks would be a hell of a weapon for Brady, while Butler is replaceable, especially to someone like Coach Belichick.

Agreed. If they get Gilmore then they can go either way and neither would bother me. The truth is that Butler is going to cost more than he's willing to pay next year, so getting a good receiver for him now makes sense.

And besides, at this point how can anybody question Bill? It's gotten to the point that the bigger the deal the more excited I am for it, even if it seems to make no sense. If he cut Brady and signed Cutler I'd just assume he knows 3 things I don't and it'll all work out for the best.

edit: And valence can be either negative or beneficial to winning championships.

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Argument, the presentation of reasonable views, never makes headway against conviction, and conviction takes no part in argument because it knows. E.F. Benson