> 2. A tapered design that places more material at the weak point - the ends of the pole shafts. This would be a positive step toward making the poles a little more durable.

I have played with the Fibraplex poles - quite nice. Yes, the joins are the weak points. They can be reinforced by sleeving them with some aluminium tubing, and one of the Easton arrow shafts should fit nicely. I use this method on another CF tube to make my own tent poles.

Yep, using the stock internal CF ferrule on one side and adding an external AL I would order the ferrules seperate from the poles for user installation. Key is to have the AL external ferrule fit pretty darn tight or the stress is amplified to a small edge on the CF pole. I have not completed all my tests, but seems that making the Al part 1/8" shorter on each end than the internal CF ferrule would be the strongest. Maybe some type of off set would be even better. Idea is that making them the same length does not help as much since the force would still all fall on the pole at a poing with no strength over lap from the outside or inside ferrule. Lightly sand and then burnish the external AL ferrule edges so they slide through pole sleeves well and don't catch. This technique also help a bit with stiffness when making straight tarp pole sets with the .292 CF poles. A three section CF straight pole at no more than 45" is as long as it will go w/ a solo size tarp and not have excessive flex, IMO. Using good quality bungee than is not too small will also help avoid the potential of the joints not closing completely and then breaking. -Not as big a risk in straight poles though.

I just pulled out the two sets (Fibraplex and stock BD aluminum poles) to refresh my memory.

The aluminum poles a bit stiffer in deflection and load bearing but it isn't a huge difference. Although I don't have the equipment to do a true scientific analysis, my estimate is that the aluminum poles are between 10 and 20% stiffer.

That said, once the poles are flexed within a tent where the pole has full contact with a sleeve or the tent body, the difference becomes quite minimal. When taking moderate winds on Rainier over 3 days, I didn't notice any deflection differences compared with the tent in similar experiences with aluminum poles.

In other words, these poles are quite comparible to the aluminum models but do flex a little bit more.

The carbon poles are what I will use in these tents in the future and in all situations. I trust them.

It has a measured comparison between the Fibraplex poles, Easton CF poles, Easton 7075 aluminum, and DAC FeatherLite 7075 aluminum poles. The Fibraplex poles are hands down stiffer for the weight, although they do deflect about 25-30% more than than the aluminum poles.

I find the FirstLight definitely has more deflection with the Fibraplex poles. I would seriously consider using the Al poles in exposed sites with high winds.

Thanks, Alan and Doug. The reason I'm asking is that I have a Fibraplex pole set for my 2-pole (wedge shape) Big Sky Tent and it suffers dramatically relative to aluminum poles with respect to snow loading.

I also have them for an Integral Designs eVENT MK1 Lite, also a wedge design, and they are fine, the difference between the CF pole set and the Al pole set is not as dramatic.

The differences are probably related to structure and how the poles are secured: clips in the BSP tent and interior with velcro in the ID tent.

But clips don't tell the whole story. In my hoop tent (an MSR Zoid), the CF poles are excellent, and the difference in performance relative to the Al poles is even less.

So, in short, when you are considering an upgrade to a CF pole set, consider the loss of performance relative to deflection (very high winds, snow loading), and recognize that the loss of performance will have a great deal to do with the tent's structure.

I did break a CF pole in a Hilleberg Akto, and I've broken a set in an ID MK1XL, both from excessive snow loading. The Akto, I left in my backyard for a week of storms, and the MK1XL, was in the real world on Froze-to-Death Plateau (basecamp for Granite Peak, MT) in the winter during a heavy snowfall. We couldn't dig fast enough.

Yes Ry,I would agree. Shelter design plays a crucial role in the suitability of using CF poles.

I think that having poles entirely INSIDE the shelter (or in a continuous sleeve) definitely benefits CF poles. The continuous pole sleeve is probably the best option although internal poles with many attachments points like the BD, Biber, and ID tents come close to mimicking a continuous sleeve. These tents do quite well with CF poles.

The stiffness and tension of the fabric around the poles is also a factor, with stiffer fabric under more tension also benefiting the CF poles. I would only use the CF poles in a tent like the BSP tent when in very sheltered conditions. This is probably combination of tent geometry and the quite stretchy noseeum netting that they anchor to. There are also only a few anchor points to the silnylon tent fly which again is not the stiffest fabric.

I have restored my old ring style TNF Oval Intention with a silnylon floor and fly. To further reduce weight I have replaced the 6 poles with CF. Because of the number of pole intersections(15), I hardly notice a difference in pole deflection. I will see how it works out this winter.

> Key is to have the AL external ferrule fit pretty darn tight or the stress is amplified to a small edge on the CF pole.Yes - a tight fit and swamp with epoxy or Black Max Loctite is good. I have done a fair bit of that.

> seems that making the Al part 1/8" shorter on each end than the internal CF ferrule would be the strongestI would go further, and suggest making the Al ferrule either 1/2" longer or shorter than the CF ferrule. Shorter would be fine.

I have overloaded 2-D CF tubing and the snap was at the transition between the ferrule and bare tube. Clean break.

2-D: 5 layers, pultrude/wrap/pultrude/wrap/pultrude, with polyester medium, but at a very high packing density. BIG machine, not hand lay-up around a mandril.

Snow loading is the hazard: my tents now have a peak rather than a flat top. Even so, a layer of snow and a sharp down-draft ... :-)