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That tier 3 German club has more fans in the stadium than some MLS teams. Wow.

Yet until the 1970's gymnastics was Germany's major sport and football was a niche interest, despite the 1950's WC win. The Bundesliga had restrictions on players, teams, and salaries, which were dropped as its popularity grew.

My dream is that our MLS and CPL teams end up playing games in full stadiums. If Germany, why not us?

Yet until the 1970's gymnastics was Germany's major sport and football was a niche interest, despite the 1950's WC win. The Bundesliga had restrictions on players, teams, and salaries, which were dropped as its popularity grew.

My dream is that our MLS and CPL teams end up playing games in full stadiums. If Germany, why not us?

It would be nice but I don't see it happening any time soon. Soccer still has a very limited following here.

Yet until the 1970's gymnastics was Germany's major sport and football was a niche interest, despite the 1950's WC win. The Bundesliga had restrictions on players, teams, and salaries, which were dropped as its popularity grew.

My dream is that our MLS and CPL teams end up playing games in full stadiums. If Germany, why not us?

This is not true. Soccer passed gymnastics in Germany in the 1920s or 1930s. Do you have any idea how massive West Germany’s World Cup win in 1954 is in German national consciousness even today?

What held the Bundesliga back postwar was lack of money or stadiums. Only Stuttgart had a proper stadium and they drew 97,000 there for a game against Switzerland in 1950 (still near the top of all time German attendance for a game). By the mid 1950s there was more money, and there were more stadiums. Once Frankfurt had the Waldstadion they drew 70,000+ for big games, those kinds of gates enabled them to become a dominant team in that era. Once Hamburg rebuilt their stadium, they got 87,000 for a European Cup game against Barcelona in 1960.

This is all laid out in an excellent book about the history of German soccer, Tor.

Last edited by ensco; 12-01-2019 at 09:07 AM.

“What the world needs is more geniuses with humility; there are so few of us left.”

^ that book is probably much better researched than what I've read, and yes I'm well aware of how much the 1954 win sticks in the German consciousness (although it was called a "miracle" for a reason). It certainly does with us from a Hungarian background to because the German win over Hungary was accomplished with some refereeing controversy! That's how the game goes. (For the history of Europe politically and also for football overall it's probably best that Germany won because the 1956 revolution ended Hungary's dominance while Germany has long-term contributed to the game).

The idea that football surpassed gymnastics in the 1930's is a bit of a stretch (how do you measure it?), gymnastics was quite an important sport in Germany, it was highly supported by the Nazis (and later the communists in East Germany) and there's a lot of Olympic medals to prove it's ongoing popularity in the decades following WWII.

So apparently the 2020 schedule will have some teams not playing each other in order to stay at 34 games. MLS is chasing expansion fees at the expense of the game imo.

Yup. Only 10 matches against the 13 teams in the opposing conference. One year stop gap. Gets switched again next year and then again the year after. Be good to have the schedule settled once and for all but it seems a ways away.

So apparently the 2020 schedule will have some teams not playing each other in order to stay at 34 games. MLS is chasing expansion fees at the expense of the game imo.

That is horrible.
It's totally unfair in order to determine the Supporter's shield winner, or even the teams qualified for the playoffs.
Like for example one team can play one of the 2 stronger teams from the other conference, and another one 2 weaker teams - now how the hell the final classification of such teams compared to each other is standing on fair grounds???

24 teams was as good a number as they could have had for a fair schedule, I would have liked to at least see the league stick to this number for a couple years but y'know expansion fees and growing the game, etc

It'll be interesting to see what happens when the expansion stops. I imagine there will be pressure for more Precourt-like attempts to move struggling teams and try new markets out

So Nashville and Cincinnati may not even play each other. Makes for a good Rivalry Week.

I think you mean Nashville and Atlanta.

And yes, while it is possible that could happen if the computer spits it out that way, I'm sure they'll tweak it to ensure they get one game against each other.

Upon reflection, I feel like there wasn't really much else they could have done this year. The reason is that Sacramento and Austin are coming in next year; they will both go to the West, and Nashville will move over to the East. The only other option to keep the conferences balanced would have been to have Nashville be in the east, then move Chicago to the West for just this year, then move them back next year. That seems impossible to do for an established club; it seems somehow more amenable to a new club just entering the league.

So yes, this year will seem a bit weird, but everything will be fine next year. Now, after that, when St. Louis joins, then who knows ... I guess there'll be one more club coming in the same year to balance it out again. Phoenix? Vegas?

And yes, while it is possible that could happen if the computer spits it out that way, I'm sure they'll tweak it to ensure they get one game against each other.

Upon reflection, I feel like there wasn't really much else they could have done this year. The reason is that Sacramento and Austin are coming in next year; they will both go to the West, and Nashville will move over to the East. The only other option to keep the conferences balanced would have been to have Nashville be in the east, then move Chicago to the West for just this year, then move them back next year. That seems impossible to do for an established club; it seems somehow more amenable to a new club just entering the league.

So yes, this year will seem a bit weird, but everything will be fine next year. Now, after that, when St. Louis joins, then who knows ... I guess there'll be one more club coming in the same year to balance it out again. Phoenix? Vegas?

Yeah Atlanta too but there is also a rivalry with Cincinnati. You’d think they’d want all three together. Unfortunately the league is more interested in chasing expansion dollars while they can still get them.

And yes, while it is possible that could happen if the computer spits it out that way, I'm sure they'll tweak it to ensure they get one game against each other.

Upon reflection, I feel like there wasn't really much else they could have done this year. The reason is that Sacramento and Austin are coming in next year; they will both go to the West, and Nashville will move over to the East. The only other option to keep the conferences balanced would have been to have Nashville be in the east, then move Chicago to the West for just this year, then move them back next year. That seems impossible to do for an established club; it seems somehow more amenable to a new club just entering the league.

So yes, this year will seem a bit weird, but everything will be fine next year. Now, after that, when St. Louis joins, then who knows ... I guess there'll be one more club coming in the same year to balance it out again. Phoenix? Vegas?

Sounds like they’re about to announce Charlotte as 30 on Friday. So that would mean Miami, Nashville, Charlotte to the east, and Auston, Sacramento, and St Louis to the west. But I’m think they break away from conferences, and go into divisions at 30. Makes more sense from the schedule/travel prospective.

So apparently the 2020 schedule will have some teams not playing each other in order to stay at 34 games. MLS is chasing expansion fees at the expense of the game imo.

I think the key as to MLS final future expansion size will be foretold by how they break the conferences into divisions. If we see them break into NFL-style, 4-club divisions, then I figure they'll cap the league at 32 teams. If the break into NBA-style, 5-club divisions, then I could see them eventually capping the league at 36 teams (especially if they choose a format where teams play only 5 of the 6 divisions every season on a rotating basis).