I admire this guys cognitive prowess in this bout, but I noticed some inconsistencies in his reasoning:

He says that eating meat because certain meat-eating animals do it is faulty reasoning on the basis that we're not those certain meat-eating animals. However, he later on posits that eating meat is wrong on the basis that if the way we draw meat - for the food industry, from animals, currently - was done on a human, it'd be wrong. Basically he discards human-to-animal analogies when it's not in his positions favour, but for it when it is.

All his arguments lie on the premise that all animals should be considered the same as humans in moral terms. He doesn't substantiate this premise, and I don't subscribe to it.

(07-04-2015 08:58 AM)Hafnof Wrote: Well, as far as we know plants don't have the neurological complexity required to experience suffering... though they can release chemicals in a reaction analogous to pain.

For many animals dying from predation is the best option they've got...

I've been out there in the woods - and I'll tell you -- there's no "Old Age Home for Aged Deer" out there....

Without predators - an old deer (8 years or so) dies a slow death of progressed starvation as their teeth give out.

Personally - I'd rather take a shot to the head. It's far quicker and in my opinion - more humane.

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.

I felt shitty. My body is set up to be omnivorous. It was not helped that I CAN'T eat soy and most forms of olives and nuts are absolutely revolting. Now a substantial amount of my food comes from meat and if it doesn't I start to feel weak, depressed, and physically ill. This is even eating "vegan approved" meals, so don't tell me I'm doing it wrong.

I am an animal, as such I must eat living flesh to survive. I have a short digestive tract that is set up to digest meat. I have struggled with the morality of this, and perhaps my conclusions are only those which make me feel comfortable with my decision. I wish to live. I wish to be healthy and happy. As such I have chosen to eat meat.

I felt shitty. My body is set up to be omnivorous. It was not helped that I CAN'T eat soy and most forms of olives and nuts are absolutely revolting. Now a substantial amount of my food comes from meat and if it doesn't I start to feel weak, depressed, and physically ill. This is even eating "vegan approved" meals, so don't tell me I'm doing it wrong.

I am an animal, as such I must eat living flesh to survive. I have a short digestive tract that is set up to digest meat. I have struggled with the morality of this, and perhaps my conclusions are only those which make me feel comfortable with my decision. I wish to live. I wish to be healthy and happy. As such I have chosen to eat meat.

There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian.

But, it's just like religion.

It's fine if it works for you- but, really it doesn't impress anybody else...

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The difference between prayer and masturbation - is when a guy is through masturbating - he has something to show for his efforts.

I've never tried to be a vegetarian but I certainly do not care what other people do. I love meat, especially wild game and fish, and I hunt and fish myself. I'm not going to quit doing those things and I really do not give a damn what others think of me for being an omnivore who leans heavily to carnivore.

Two nights ago, a mountain lion killed a mule deer in my backyard. I went out to look and that raw venison smelled so good I thought about asking her if I could cut out the backstraps [the filets] for my own grill. She didn't look to be in a sharing mood so I nixed that idea. Nevertheless, I thought about how lucky she is. She kills a mule deer every 7 to 10 days, gorges herself on the meat for two or three days, and then sleeps for a few days until it's time to eat again. In years when she has cubs, they follow her around eating, sleeping, and playing and they don't have a care in the world.

I've never found arguments for vegetarianism or veganism compelling. They're usually based on double standards (animals are people too, but only when it comes to eating them; not on any behavior they actually exhibit that differs wildly from ours), false science (vegan/vegetarian food is better for you/our bodies aren't made to eat meat), or narcissism and guilt trips (I'm better than you because I don't eat meat/look at these pictures of cute animals; how can you eat them/why don't you eat dogs or cats).

Yes, I feel bad animals have to die for me to live. That's called "life" - I'm not self-sufficient like a plant, so, for me to live, other living things must die. If it's not an animal dying, it's a plant, and some plants are cooked or eaten alive. Just because it can't scream doesn't mean it doesn't feel pain. Plants are wildly different from us; who's to say they don't experience pain in a manner similar to animals?

EDIT: In case there are any militant vegetarians/vegans on the forum, I'd like to note that when eating things that were never alive (and can sustain humans) becomes affordable to me, I'll gladly do so for as long as I can. The technology exists, but I can't afford it yet. In fact, it's not even shippable to my country - I checked. If you'd like, I'll gladly accept packages of it to replace my food, if you take care of the expenses.

The truth is absolute. Life forms are specks of specks (...) of specks of dust in the universe.
Why settle for normal, when you can be so much more? Why settle for something, when you can have everything?

No argument for Veganism works because it is either out of emotion or wishful thinking. The argument other animals eat meat works because they need it to survive as do we. Plus meat played a major part in human evolution.