'lek, vor'e, Vlet.Well, there's nothing in the Code itself that says a Jedi must have a certain concentration of midi-chlorians. Given the age I started this, I'm probably less SWTOR-orthodox than pushing the inner limit of Altistian, but I follow the Code to the best of my ability, so I call myself a Jedi.Y'all follow the Resol'nare, but you've never been to Mandalore, and you share no genetic... anything... with the original Mando'ade.I've never been to the Temple, and this-world science has no way of quantifying or even confirming the existence of the Force or midichlorians - I guess what I'm saying is I don't know I don't have literal midichlorians. Crazy stuff happens sometimes.Yeah, figures that the Mando'ade wouldn't be too keen on the Jedi. (And for the record, even on this planet the Jetiise know not to treat the Mando'ade like pushovers. Bluntly, and however little you like it, we're all on the same side.)

I think - I hope that was what I was trying to say. That in both cases it's less about the genetics and - ahem - microscopic symbionts - than about just getting on with living the life. Thanks for saying it better.

I was mostly just curious about what you thought of the whole thing, but I should have put it better. Good on ya for the reasoning, and it gives some good perspective. I also don't think of the jetiise as my enemies, but the whole inner peace and well-ordered thing makes me fidgety. Warning: smallish soapbox

Reason being that I'm around a lot of "religious" people who have good intentions, but they're sidetracked from reality because they spend more time (not literally) "contemplating their midi-chlorian count" than showing the love of Christ (hence, you know, the name Christian). *shrugs* For all I know they're working on it, too. I won't pretend I'm above them.

Also, I was saying that mainstream jettiise everything but said "No midi-chlorians? Well, you aren't a Jedi." I wrongly assumed you were mainstream, but in the case of your particular jeti'la beliefs, I see the your point.

No midi-chlorians, you can't be a Jedi - well, by Old Temple rules, certainly. But it's not in Code, it's just a thing that came up, kinda like infant baptism and the hardcore Mariolatry in the Roman Catholic church. It makes sense, ('from a certain point of view') but it's not included in the source documents. (Apologies if you're RC... I'm not and those are just the two bits that first sprang to mind.) Also Jedi getting married - Old Republic generally no, New Republic (EU, anyway) generally yes. I figure stuff that's outside the absolute core of your belief system (Jedi Code cf. Bible and various creeds) is largely negotiable.The 'inner peace thing' as you put it... if you don't mind my asking, why do you think it makes you fidgety? That isn't a response that had occurred to me, and I'm interested.Also thanks for the 'smallish soapbox' - I'm taking that as implicit permission to stop hiding.

My beliefs are not necessarily a specific group (although my beliefs are very Protestant Baptist, and I go to a church of that kind), because I'd rather base my beliefs on the source of my faith, the Bible, and the Holy Spirit's guidance.

The inner-peace thing makes me fidgety because it makes it seem easy to leave the world to shabla haran or to think you're sophisticated enough to know better than other people. Alot of things in the world aren't likely to make a person feel at peace, and "achieving" it seems to make some feel pretty good about themselves. By inner peace, I don't mean "the peace that passeth all understanding", but more of inner peace being a priority. In essence, the jeti inner peace thing. You know, " there is no emotion, there is peace... There is no passion, there is serenity. There is no chaos, there is harmony." I need my passion to keep my spirit (<<morale) alive, not "serenity." The mainstream jetii'la concept of inner peace seems to separate a person from reality in a very unMando fashion, and it also seems like the inner peace + well-ordered in tradition is a recipe for staying in your box and gradually deteriorating.*shrugs* Just my half jumbled thoughts.

Rule number one for me is both " don't shove it in other people's face" and "don't be a hut'uun." That's why I'm not scared to talk about my beliefs, but I put my soapboxes in spoilers mostly. I know a few people who live this. They don't show separation from "the world" by choosing to be different than others. They just choose to be like Christ and that sets them apart. Christ's love. The real shabla reason we Christians are here. Not to dwell on life, but to act on it. To live life, showing the same loving countenance and willingness to help that Christ showed us on the cross. I'm preaching to myself more than anyone else. I've been told I'm "spiritual" by some people, but spirituality can get lost if it means I can show the kind of love Christ, and some true Christians, have shown me.

Also, you never have to hide your opinion or beliefs among Mandos. We'll call it as we see it, but we say "to each his own" 'cause we want others to do the same. I believe the others would agree (Vlet, Adi'karta, others, you wanna chime in?). If you mean that you didn't want to flood me with religion talk if I wasn't interested, then respect point earned (*chuckles* Not that anyone's counting. Just something my vode say.)

A lot of my IRL friends are Roman Catholic, but I'm definitely Protestant and mostly Baptist. I don't make a huge secret out of it or anything - I'm mostly 'living' in a very secular environment, and people who know me know I'm the nerd who goes often to Bible study and rarely to bars, but I don't make a big deal out of it either. Like you said - just getting on with life. Someone asks a question, I'll answer probably in more detail than they were expecting, but... yeah. Living life.

What you're saying makes sense. But I always figured, sure, a lot of what happens is osik'la, but if you're a whirl of disorganized emotions, first up you're not going to be terribly useful because (I don't know if this applies to 'normal' people, but it does to me) it's really hard to think straight or do anything productive when you're in turmoil.

Even pray...yes, God is always listening no matter how weird you're being, but actively and seriously praying for someone or something takes concentration.

Also... you ever try looking for something in a room that's a total shambles? The well-ordered thing isn't for inner peace, that whole 'aum' idea, half as much as it is for efficiency. And aside from the obvious point of entropy and thus disorder increasing because thermodynamics, I do wholeheartedly believe there is an order, a harmony, if you will, to the universe. And - I have to totally disagree with your point about separation from reality! Taking a breath, taking a moment to find a center, balance, calm down, focus - that connects you to reality, by cutting through all the ett that's your ego, your me me me side. People naturally focus on what's bugging them - if your emotions, your feelings, the mess that's closest and therefore easiest to focus on, is in order, you're free to think about the real problems. (Also I should clarify: it's not feeling nothing, it's tidying as you go. "I feel angry - why? Random frustration. Okay, thank you, random frustration, I don't need you, you can go. I feel sad - why? My burc'ya is having a really hard day. Okay, I will help them. Thank you, sadness, your work is done, you can go." Like with pain: you cut your hand, it hurts, so you check to see if it's anything that will cause trouble. Bandaid on it, thank you pain for alerting me to this issue, you're done, you can go.)(That was kind of the aim - the not-flooding. It irritates some people, and while there's a terrific precedent for irritating people in a good cause, this isn't exactly the place to be unnecessarily annoying.)Sorry, this ran on way longer than I thought it would!

I also believe what you're saying makes sense. It's the whole Jusik or Skirata approach choice. Skirata is not at all at peace, but his passion has self-discipline and that discipline prevents need for a well-ordered government (by well-ordered, I meant more of "big government" or tradition dictating life instead of one's own discipline, experience, and beliefs). Jusik also has a heart, but he has a calmer, less aggressive way ('course Skirata thinks before he acts, too). Skirata is a tempest of love and bitterness collected and guided by discipline and purpose. Jusik is a well of calm stirred to action by the realities of the world.

I feel like this has gotten a bit off-topic. Feel free to PM me further about this, but it seems more philosophical than this thread was intended to be. If you or others would rather continue it here, let me know. Either way, I find it interesting.

The concept of a Mand'alor is one that only exists when such a position would be serving a definite purpose. if there's no need for one, there isn't one, if there is one, then the Mand'alor should be whoever is suited to the situation's demand, and therefore any commands they're giving would be inherently worth following. If they need to coerce people to follow them, there's a good chance they're not there for the right reasons as it is.

This is also why I get frustrated with every bloody group around propping up their own Mand'alor for no other reason than to say they've got one, it's disgraceful and devalues the concept as a whole.

I agree, Vlet. If a practical method is no longer practical, it's a useless tradition. It's not bad, but it's not really Mando. I'll also note that it seems to me the intention of that part of the resol'nare was to say that if there's somebody leading a cause you really believe in (pastor or parent, possibly), shabla support him/her for osik's sake! The Mand'alor is the one you must support, but (again, with common sense) it could be applied as I previously suggested.

Also, does it not sound ridiculous to any of those Mand'alore that there are quite a few of them at the same time? I guess if they're all going different directions in their beliefs as leaders, but then that would be pretty sad that the Mandos as a whole are so scattered in our convictions.

What about being Mandalorian when you're born in a different country (pretty well all of us)? Where does allegiance lie? Both? Mandalore? Being one but appreciating the other? Being one and incorporating the other, too (what I did when I first knew about the Mando'ade)? Interested to hears you all's thoughts.

I think it lies with the Resol'nare and your aliit, whatever form that takes. I'm sure there were many Mando'ade who were out of contact with Mandalore for long periods of time, and during that time what made them Mandalorians was how well they followed the Resol'nare.

Whatever country a Mando's family lives in in the first place should be worth fighting for, and, much as I like Mando food and such, the Resol'nare are really the focal point of it all. It's definitely a different cultural mix for each of the Mando'ade, especially with quite a few of us picking stuff up from other nationalities in addition to the ways of whatever country we were born in and Mandalore.

You follow the Resol'nare, you're a Mando, end of, no?I mean, take Australia, particularly Sydney - it's as close to a genuine aggregate culture as I've actually lived in - there's Greeks, there's Poles, there's English, there's Chinese, there's... you name it, you can find one. And by the second generation at latest, even though most people keep some aspect of their 'original' culture like names and Christmas traditions and stuff, most of 'em consider themselves Australian first and whatever-else second. I think what Tempest is suggesting is analogous to Druze culture - there's a tenet of their religion that demands fealty to the government of wherever a Druze happens to find him- or herself.

I am hardly suggesting any Mando'ad be loyal to a country purely because he or she lives there.

Actually, I was saying that a Mando buir would choose a place to live that would, hopefully, be a country worth fighting for if the need arose. So not any country.

I like the idea of sticking to the tried and true mandakarla traits that make us who we are, while being relatively open to new cultural aspects of that same kind of country I referred to previously, such as food or recreational activities.

Again, a practical person has to judge each situation; there are a lot of relative concepts when discussed this broadly.

Tempest wrote:I am hardly suggesting any Mando'ad be loyal to a country purely because he or she lives there.

Actually, I was saying that a Mando buir would choose a place to live that would, hopefully, be a country worth fighting for if the need arose. So not any country.

I like the idea of sticking to the tried and true mandakarla traits that make us who we are, while being relatively open to new cultural aspects of that same kind of country I referred to previously, such as food or recreational activities.

Again, a practical person has to judge each situation; there are a lot of relative concepts when discussed this broadly.

This is very much how I see it. It also occured to me that dealing with people honorably would be part of it (at least for me.) Aruetiise don't know or care who you are; all they will see is what you do.

Speaking of a Mando's actions around aruetiise, I have been chewing this over for awhile.

What the shab does a Mando do when he/she blows osik up? You know, that moment when you go "Haar'chak! I really just said/did that..."... I believe pretty much anyone who belongs to a small group associated with a moral code can understand that once you screw up, aruetiise brand anyone from your group a chaakar for life. If I claim to be a Mando and do something di'kut'la, the people involved will likely associate my osik as something any Mando could do.

Am I being overdramatic? Quite possibly. Exceptions do apply, but I believe I have made my point.