martin wrote:first why would anyone feel terrible about people being transexual? is there some standart of sexuality to being happy? well, no. hence, no need to feel sorry for people being as different as they are from statistical crowd.

Why??? Because most of them are terribly unhappy people. I did not mean I feel terrible because they are a transexual but feel terrible because most of them are so unhappy. The suicide rate is something like 30% and like 50% of all transexuals have at least attempted suicide. So yes, I feel bad for that segment because it is a tough life.

Martin wrote:why would one be against men ****ing their animals like goats on behalf of animal choice, while there's no problem eating them? did your goat, pig, cow voluntary decided to become your food and mean for your well-being? no. so, again, argument does not work.

I understand your point but you are nit picking semantics here martin. It is an old and tired argument regarding animal rights and eating and using them for clothing. And while TEHNICALLY speaking there is not much difference from a "choice" on the animals side, living things NEED to eat to survive and natural selection has put us on top of the food chain. Yes, sucks for the pig and goats out there, but that is the way it is. There is no NECESSITY to f*ck a goat.

but the terrible life they may have is not because of any natural things, but society rules that are, well, not natural, if you take nature to be a set of things that happen in it. actually, it's quite natural for girls act like boys and boys like girls through many stages, even up to late age, unless it's hampered by 'this is not right' argument.

as for natural selection, who cares?! it's natural for stronger to take davantage of weaker, should i use children and disabled persons to my advantage?! no. the same goes for loving animals. actually if you have researched, many animals become very attracted to other species if they are treated right and none of them seem to be in protest to have sexual intercourse with other members of different species if that does not go against the simple fact of self security, so to say. so, sex with animals is much more human than simply breeding them to kill them and eat them. and it's not a matter of semantics, but rather simple knowledge of animal life and at least a little bit of neuroscience, which states that such and such biological life systems may have evolved feeling of pain, fear of death and empathy. now, pain and death is what you bring to your animal food base. while you certainly may manage unpainful and satisfying act of sex/love with another species member. it may sound gross and ugly, but that's how it is.

martin wrote:first why would anyone feel terrible about people being transexual? is there some standart of sexuality to being happy? well, no. hence, no need to feel sorry for people being as different as they are from statistical crowd.

Why??? Because most of them are terribly unhappy people. I did not mean I feel terrible because they are a transexual but feel terrible because most of them are so unhappy. The suicide rate is something like 30% and like 50% of all transexuals have at least attempted suicide. So yes, I feel bad for that segment because it is a tough life.

Martin wrote:why would one be against men ****ing their animals like goats on behalf of animal choice, while there's no problem eating them? did your goat, pig, cow voluntary decided to become your food and mean for your well-being? no. so, again, argument does not work.

I understand your point but you are nit picking semantics here martin. It is an old and tired argument regarding animal rights and eating and using them for clothing. And while TEHNICALLY speaking there is not much difference from a "choice" on the animals side, living things NEED to eat to survive and natural selection has put us on top of the food chain. Yes, sucks for the pig and goats out there, but that is the way it is. There is no NECESSITY to f*ck a goat.

but the terrible life they may have is not because of any natural things, but society rules that are, well, not natural, if you take nature to be a set of things that happen in it. actually, it's quite natural for girls act like boys and boys like girls through many stages, even up to late age, unless it's hampered by 'this is not right' argument.

as for natural selection, who cares?! it's natural for stronger to take davantage of weaker, should i use children and disabled persons to my advantage?! no. the same goes for loving animals. actually if you have researched, many animals become very attracted to other species if they are treated right and none of them seem to be in protest to have sexual intercourse with other members of different species if that does not go against the simple fact of self security, so to say. so, sex with animals is much more human than simply breeding them to kill them and eat them. and it's not a matter of semantics, but rather simple knowledge of animal life and at least a little bit of neuroscience, which states that such and such biological life systems may have evolved feeling of pain, fear of death and empathy. now, pain and death is what you bring to your animal food base. while you certainly may manage unpainful and satisfying act of sex/love with another species member. it may sound gross and ugly, but that's how it is.

well I dont know how to answer that other than to see I see an ethical difference between ass raping a goat and eating a hot dog at a warriors game.

I dont know if you are saying you see no difference OR whether you just think my logic is flawed?

But I am sorry, I just have no way of knowing whether the sheep finds it unpainful and satisfying to have a human penis in its ass and since they can not expressisly communicate with us, I am going to error on the side of caution.

i was not talking baout rape, rape is an violent act, and as such is not ethical.

of course the goat might be uncomfortable being fucked by any random creature, but a goat SLAUGHTERED is FOR sure feeling pain.

so, if you agree on that animals might not like what we do with them (ebven if thay can't talk proper english), you should at least consider that they might like some things as well - and having sex, logically, most probably is much more pleasurable (and AT LEAST not so brutal and painful) than murder. here, simple as that.

martin wrote:first why would anyone feel terrible about people being transexual? is there some standart of sexuality to being happy? well, no. hence, no need to feel sorry for people being as different as they are from statistical crowd.

Why??? Because most of them are terribly unhappy people. I did not mean I feel terrible because they are a transexual but feel terrible because most of them are so unhappy. The suicide rate is something like 30% and like 50% of all transexuals have at least attempted suicide. So yes, I feel bad for that segment because it is a tough life.

Martin wrote:why would one be against men ****ing their animals like goats on behalf of animal choice, while there's no problem eating them? did your goat, pig, cow voluntary decided to become your food and mean for your well-being? no. so, again, argument does not work.

I understand your point but you are nit picking semantics here martin. It is an old and tired argument regarding animal rights and eating and using them for clothing. And while TEHNICALLY speaking there is not much difference from a "choice" on the animals side, living things NEED to eat to survive and natural selection has put us on top of the food chain. Yes, sucks for the pig and goats out there, but that is the way it is. There is no NECESSITY to f*ck a goat.

but the terrible life they may have is not because of any natural things, but society rules that are, well, not natural, if you take nature to be a set of things that happen in it. actually, it's quite natural for girls act like boys and boys like girls through many stages, even up to late age, unless it's hampered by 'this is not right' argument.

as for natural selection, who cares?! it's natural for stronger to take davantage of weaker, should i use children and disabled persons to my advantage?! no. the same goes for loving animals. actually if you have researched, many animals become very attracted to other species if they are treated right and none of them seem to be in protest to have sexual intercourse with other members of different species if that does not go against the simple fact of self security, so to say. so, sex with animals is much more human than simply breeding them to kill them and eat them. and it's not a matter of semantics, but rather simple knowledge of animal life and at least a little bit of neuroscience, which states that such and such biological life systems may have evolved feeling of pain, fear of death and empathy. now, pain and death is what you bring to your animal food base. while you certainly may manage unpainful and satisfying act of sex/love with another species member. it may sound gross and ugly, but that's how it is.

well I dont know how to answer that other than to see I see an ethical difference between ass raping a goat and eating a hot dog at a warriors game.

I dont know if you are saying you see no difference OR whether you just think my logic is flawed?

But I am sorry, I just have no way of knowing whether the sheep finds it unpainful and satisfying to have a human penis in its ass and since they can not expressisly communicate with us, I am going to error on the side of caution.

Raping goats and eating hot dogs at a Warriors game ? What has this turned into?

This topic is a grey area, were making a stand on the issue is difficult right/wrong, especially since society has taught many of us that being gay is wrong. From church, to the media, normal is having relationship between a boy and girl.

Now moving forward, I use to not care much about the issue of being gay and was neutral in the position I took because am not in contact with the gay community, although I am aware of prop 8 and normal news that happens. I don't not know/feel the gay struggle but am certain it is present since they are in the midst of a society that does not find their type of relationship/lifestyle normal (although they are moving towards more acceptance).

I will not dislike a group of people based on their sexual preference but on the content of their character. As mention before there are gays who could be annoying by being overly voicestrous and over the top, but that can be said for many people in soicety.

A turning point for me was when the track star from South Africa (her name slips me, limited on my searches @ work) who won the 800 meters at an international track meet had her biological sex questioned. Scientist could not figure out exactly whether she was a male or female, so where does she fall in picking her relationships? So it is complicated but people have the choice to choose.

And John McCain a republican, whose daughter is gay is a strong supporter of gay marriage, if his daughter was not gay am not sure his position for gay marriage would be the same. so personal relationship with gays is also important because it brings that human aspect to it instead of just hearing things about it.

bada wrote:I understand your point but you are nit picking semantics here martin. It is an old and tired argument regarding animal rights and eating and using them for clothing. And while TEHNICALLY speaking there is not much difference from a "choice" on the animals side, living things NEED to eat to survive and natural selection has put us on top of the food chain. Yes, sucks for the pig and goats out there, but that is the way it is. There is no NECESSITY to f*ck a goat.

You know what, with that stance you can say that there is no necessity to fuk a person of same gender and yet there is necessity to fuk a person of the opposite sex to continue the species or none of us would be here. I agree with this stance by the way and I "used" to be more liberal, far more, but now have come to the understanding of how things must function and how they were made. I'll leave it at that and say that everyone can have an opinion and that is good that you can do what you want as long as you don't hurt anybody else and things continue

bada wrote:I understand your point but you are nit picking semantics here martin. It is an old and tired argument regarding animal rights and eating and using them for clothing. And while TEHNICALLY speaking there is not much difference from a "choice" on the animals side, living things NEED to eat to survive and natural selection has put us on top of the food chain. Yes, sucks for the pig and goats out there, but that is the way it is. There is no NECESSITY to f*ck a goat.

You know what, with that stance you can say that there is no necessity to fuk a person of same gender and yet there is necessity to fuk a person of the opposite sex to continue the species or none of us would be here. I agree with this stance by the way and I "used" to be more liberal, far more, but now have come to the understanding of how things must function and how they were made. I'll leave it at that and say that everyone can have an opinion and that is good that you can do what you want as long as you don't hurt anybody else and things continue

well migs we were talking about the CHOICE of eating meat vs having sex with an animal. both are choices. In your example neither are choices... you are born attracted to the opposite sex or born attracted to the same sex. The only choice you have if attracted to the same sex is whether you will life of denial in order to conform to society's view of what is normal and decent, or be who you truly are and open yoursel up to the bigotry of the world.

warriorsstepup wrote:And John McCain a republican, whose daughter is gay is a strong supporter of gay marriage, if his daughter was not gay am not sure his position for gay marriage would be the same. so personal relationship with gays is also important because it brings that human aspect to it instead of just hearing things about it.

Actually, John McCain is NOT in favor of Gay Marriage... his wife and daughter are though (as they have publicly campaigned for it)

warriorsstepup wrote:And John McCain a republican, whose daughter is gay is a strong supporter of gay marriage, if his daughter was not gay am not sure his position for gay marriage would be the same. so personal relationship with gays is also important because it brings that human aspect to it instead of just hearing things about it.

Actually, John McCain is NOT in favor of Gay Marriage... his wife and daughter are though (as they have publicly campaigned for it)

And you are correct just searched the net on the matter. I could have sworn, I read or saw McCain alongside his wife and daughter while they campaigned for same-sex marriage, either way its perplexing situation and choice causing a division for John McCain created by devotion of a political party and love for family (Gay Daughter).

I mean he accepts his daughter and is aware of her stand on gay marriage
along with his wife, but he is some how against Gay Marriage, in essence against his wife and daughter on an issue they strongly believe in. Am guessing the political fall out would be too much for McCain to be for Gay Marriage.

For my this is the type of hypocrisy from politicians that erk me, John McCain is willing to accept his daughter being gay but won't support Gay Marriage because of political reasons. Grow some damn balls McCain and stand up for something, but of course he won't, has to stay in the box. Sad, sad, sad, how does this man sleep at night.

Money Morrow wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong here, but isn't it Dick Cheney's daughter who is gay?Never heard that about McCain's daughter....

Damn it me, here I thought I understood the matter, venturing out of the basketball topics, haha.

Well the wife and daughter are supporters of gay marriage which I think hammers the point and hypocrisy from Mccain, I can only imagine dinner time at that household when the topic gay marriage comes up.

So Dick Cheney has a daughter that is gay, that is also interesting, I might have missed up 2 very similar situations. Either way it pits republican political figures in an akwards positions since their party is generally against gay marriage.