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Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by VanceMack

The creation and swelling of social programs at the fed level has been going on for a loooooong long time. What is changing is that the bloat has finally caught up to the fed and now, after creating this system they are 'dumping' responsibility on the states. Which is the RIGHT thing to do...provided that you end the fed tax bloat. You cant maintain the fed tax bloat which the fed created AND tell the states, oh by the way...pick up the slack. The entire system has to be redefined. My personal belief is that it should be redefined with the fed tax burden radically reduced and the states given the responsibility to spend and tax accordingly.

Yes it has been going on a long time. This fund was originally established in 1935, for the aged, blind and children.

Cutting through to your bottom line, how do we insure the states increase taxes, much less enough to take care of those who through no fault of their own, need assistance? There are many states cutting taxes right now, cutting social programs in the process. The Fed being involved requires the money be spent on them. Take that requirement out, what happens. I don't deny the system is broken. There are people gaming the system as it was reformed and the states are gaming the Fed. That should stop right now. I just want to protect the most vulnerable. Pulling the Fed out and giving the states the responsibility, without safeguards (though how can the Fed impose safeguards when it's not Fed money) is a recipe for disaster.

I don't attack my constituents. Bob is my constituent now.
This is the important stuff. We can’t get lost in discrimination. We can’t get lost in B.S. We can’t get lost tearing each other down. I want to make a point here that no matter what you look like, where you come from, how you worship, who you love, how you identify, and yeah, how you run, that if you have good public policy ideas, if you are well qualified for office, bring those ideas to the table, because this is your America, too. This is our commonwealth of Virginia, too.

Danica Roem - The nation's first openly transgender person elected to serve in a U.S. state legislature.

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Not in it's current form, no. That's not to say that conservatives on the individual level aren't equally as charitable, but the party's branding lends itself to contrary and even disparaging rhetoric from time to time.

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by Fiddytree

There's plenty of services that are mix funded through federal and state
funds, but the latter cannot take the whole thing, and couldn't be trusted to do that either. Private is a mixed bag in comparison with those two, where frequently, there is hardly any private groups that care enough or believe they have enough incentive to push funds through to do such matters.

Perhaps my awareness of this is completely different, but at the state level you just end up with the same argument you're making, minus the parts about the federal government. It always comes down to "other people's money," especially for those populations that fall under that category of "through no fault of their own." Then under such an argument, once that realization comes through to them that it won't work well, a good chunk of the time I get the response "tough ****."

Your post reminds me off the Susan G Komen, PP scandal. Susan G does raise a lot of money, and funneled it down to PP. PP is something lot of Tea Party people have no problem cutting and defunding to the point clinics are closing in many places.

When they claim they want to help more people or help people through a more efficient system, it's hard to observe it in the real world.

I wouldn't say PP or any charity that gets a mix of private and public funds cripples people or makes them dependent either. And there are plenty of grants out there for Not for Profits.

I file taxes for a lot if NFPs and I have never seen one that's strictly private funded.

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by VanceMack

Where appropriately applied, social
services should not go away. I stress where appropriately applied. Its anecdotal so take it for what it is worth, but I will give just one of thousands of examples where it is NOT appropriately applied (anecdotal, but happens several times a day in the hospital. This was yesterday). 21 year old young woman presents in the ER claiming extreme pain and anxiety. 'NEEDS' meds...'must' have them. Quick background and assessment and low and behold, she is on her 4th hospital of the day, and her and her boyfriend are hitting every ER they can to get pain meds. When called on the knowledge, she claims suicidal ideation and threatens to cut herself in the parking lot. Hospital bills Medicare and SS for ER visit, complete labs, psych assessment...in total...about 3.5k per visit per day. Her 'disability'? Hell if I know. She is insulin dependent diabetic but other than that absolutely healthy and capable. She is 'in the system' and will be for the rest of her life. Too easy to get on, too easy to stay on, and too many opportunities for abuse. The fed system is a cancer. The numbers of young physically healthy able bodied individuals on disability is climbing. It wont get better. It is a self perpetuating system. State and local services would offer better oversight and might make people aware of just how much money is being shoveled into that debt hole.

There is a difference between "no fault of their own" and classic, chronic malingerers. Because the fed pot is so immense, care providers profit from these types of people. And going back to the 'compassion' part...I personally think the WORST THING we can do to people like that is to continue to facilitate them to live that existence for the next 50+ years.

So are you saying that people get on welfare and then start abusing drugs and the system?

I think it's more likely they start abusing, can't function, and then end up on assistance. It does create generational problems when they have children, but I don't think welfare and assistance welfare causes all these issues either.

they shouldn't have kids to begin with, but we can't force such decisions on people. I would say that we don't address the social issues themselves. We need to find a better way to deal with drug abuse, and neglected children chilren in poverty.

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by Fiddytree

Many can be considered compassionate conservatives. However, the Tea Party has declared war on that, and some of the base have labeled Bush-style compassionate conservatism as "too liberal." Myself, I was more aligned with that style of conservatism than most other styles.

some people say its a lack of compassion to tell junkies to get off their drugs

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by SheWolf

So are you saying that people get on welfare and then start abusing drugs and the system?

I think it's more likely they start abusing, can't function, and then end up on assistance. It does create generational problems when they have children, but I don't think welfare and assistance welfare causes all these issues either.

they shouldn't have kids to begin with, but we can't force such decisions on people. I would say that we don't address the social issues themselves. We need to find a better way to deal with drug abuse, and neglected children chilren in poverty.

Not at all what I said. What I said is that because of the availability of the 'system' we have created generations of dependent malingerers and made it all too easy to become dependent and those individuals...otherwise capable in every way...are draining needed resources from those that truly CANT provide for themselves.

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by VanceMack

The argument is very direct. Current system has the fed seizing money from taxpayers, passing it around to whichever bureaucracy they want to and need to, and then...provided that the states play nice and follow their rules, GRACIOUSLY send block grants back to the states. As a system...thats just plain goofy. Would you run a business that way? Of COURSE not...you would ask the obvious and honest question...why am I sending money to the fed in the first place?

Now...the answer. Because the fed CREATED that system and we LET them. The problem with that system is obvious...no direct responsibility, no responsible oversight, no constrictions on spending, and an infinite money pool by tossing any excesses or overages onto future generations in the name of deficits and debts. The ONLY reason for people to reject state responsibility for their own social programs is a desire to remain fiscally irresponsible. Large problems in our state? No problem...let the fed handle it. Fed cant handle it? No problem, let them run a deficit, borrow against our grandkids future...out of sight, out of mind. Its just wrong on every level.

No it isn't. Putting it all on the States will just make the entire program a spiraling race to the bottom. Texas decides it's not going to fund X%, so the people on the program in Texas move to NM where the program is better. Then NM can't afford it so they reduce their program - and the people move again. Eventually, it'll all be thrown back on voluntary donations, and we all know where that leads because we've been there before. The Fed has to be the one to establish the standards because if all states don't adopt the same standards you move into the downward spiral. Once you admit the Fed has to set the standard then you're committed to the Fed funding at least part of the program.

Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by MoSurveyor

No it isn't. Putting it all on the States will just make the entire program a spiraling race to the bottom. Texas decides it's not going to fund X%, so the people on the program in Texas move to NM where the program is better. Then NM can't afford it so they reduce their program - and the people move again. Eventually, it'll all be thrown back on voluntary donations, and we all know where that leads because we've been there before. The Fed has to be the one to establish the standards because if all states don't adopt the same standards you move into the downward spiral. Once you admit the Fed has to set the standard then you're committed to the Fed funding at least part of the program.

Amazing. So...states aren't responsible enough to handle their needs...MUST have a fed do it for us.

I don't buy it. Its an excuse. States don't WANT to be responsible. Citizens don't want their states to be responsible. Better to continue to use a system where the resources are magically infinite and someone else is responsible for your care and well being. Until of course that system becomes so overwhelmed with bloat that it also begins to collapse.

Re: McConnell Video Touts GOP: ‘We Are The Party Of Compassion’

Originally Posted by VanceMack

Amazing. So...states aren't responsible enough to handle their needs...MUST have a fed do it for us.

I don't buy it. Its an excuse. States don't WANT to be responsible. Citizens don't want their states to be responsible. Better to continue to use a system where the resources are magically infinite and someone else is responsible for your care and well being. Until of course that system becomes so overwhelmed with bloat that it also begins to collapse.

That's silly unless you allow states to stop "immigration" from other states. If states can't tell people, "You can only move here if you have a job waiting for you" or "you can't move here if you're disabled" then everything would work out just fine. Otherwise, you'll have migrations of people unable to work from states with bad care systems to states with good care systems. So if Missouri and Colorado decided to help it's disabled people and Kansas decided not to, then MO and CO would end up with all the former Kansans who are disabled. That's not right, either. Why should MO and CO have to support the disabled people form KS?

Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg