TranscriptIndex

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This conversation with Margaret Schimke and her husband Weldon Schimke took

place in their home in Moscow,Idaho on April 11, 1978. The interviewer is Rachel Foxman.

MS: My cousins who lived across the alley were going and all the other Protest

ant children in the neighborhood were going, so I was going too. And I think I was a regular reporter and so I would tell about what went on at the revival meeting.So I reported to him (noisy) were his reactions and my mother's defense of it. But Mrs. Otness, I thought she was going to write this so I went up to this university archives and got the papers for the Daily Star Mirror for November and December 1919. And on November the first there was a first Baptist church notice which said: Prayer meeting, 7:30 Thursday. This is the last prayer meeting until after the Bulgin-Lewis meetings." And then on November the sixth on the editorial page of the paper, I quote; "Next week the great evangalistic service begin in the Tabernacle. All the church people will unite in this great effort. There will be no denominationalism. The people will unite in one great cause and hope to have a big attendance during the entire series of meetings." And on November the seventh The big revival begins tomorrow with the Rev. E.J. Bulgin, Robert Lewis, chorus choir director, Mrs. Robert Lewis, accompianist,and Chester f. Harris, gospel singer. Quote,"Aside from Billy Sunday, there is no preacher that can approach Dr. Bulgin in power." Now the churches that were involved, to the best of my recollection, were the core of the Protestant churches,the Presbyterian, the Methodist, the Baptist, the Christian, possibly the Seventh Day Adventists, but I'm not sure about that. The two Lutheran churches were not involved, nor^the Episcopal church, nor the Catholic church. And the,when he said denominationalism was not going to be a factor, that was wrong. Now the tabernacle was built on the corner of Third and Jefferson street , where the parking lot is now. Behind the old Post Office, which was built then and it was on the spot where later a Christian church, now demolished stood. And during the war it had been a victory garden. And the tabernacle was built, I suppose, by donated labor and probably the local churches had raised the money for it. The tabernacle, "This mammoth building that will house the great meeting, there were many trips to Felton's mill for sawdust and a fragrant carpet covers the otherwise soft ground trodden hard be. the feet of the workmen.

The building will

accomodate about 2,000 people. It will probably not take care of the Sunday night crowd. There will be delegations from surrounding towns. The opening service refuted Plato, Harvey, Herbert Spencer and the great building was filled to hear Dr. Bulgin who said they were here to do Moscow good." Now my father said that Bulgin, refuted Robert G. Ingersoll, the noted atheist. He said,"He reminds me of these preachers who argue every morning Ingersoll,Every Sunday morning, and -every Sunday morning they win because Ingersoll is dead." So you see, there was much difference here in the reception of this. November 14th,"Sensational rumors have been circulated in Moscow that Dr. Bulgin had attacked and demeaned the American Legion in his campaign in Colfax. The local American Legion chapter investigated and they absolved the Dr. Bulgin's statement, statement by M.P. Bailey, acting commander'.' Then it followed an absolution of him. Headline November the fifteenth." Monday night will be Methodist night. Tuesday is for Presbyterian. And what they did on the special nights is all the Methodists would gather at the church and then they would march in a body down to the tabernacle. And the same for the Presbyterians and the Baptists and all the others. So there was much spectacle at the evening meetings. As much as you could have in a small town. November the seventeenth, an editorial. "A young man was arrested for disturbing the meeting in the tabernacle. He should have been pinched. Other arrests are likely to follow."Now the reason for this, I think, was the young man stood up to refute some acusations the Rev. Bulgin had made about the morals of university students. And on November 18th,this is a quotation from Dr. Bulgin."Moscow is hidebound. I'd like to start a glue factory here." And"Tonight is Presbyterian night. They will at the Methodist church basement and will march down in a body."

RF: I don't think I understand that Moscow was hidebound and he'd like to start

a glue factory.

MS: Because glue is made out of horses' hooves and he said Moscow is hidebound.

RF: Meaning that they were so tough to break?

Yes. Sure. And the collections were not up to his expectations either. Headline, November 18th,"The Sunshine Chorus is growing rapidly.

Robbie-gobble, robble-gobble

Sisk boom we Sunshine Chorus, don't you see Pep and ginger makes us bolder Grit and backbone for a soldier We will fight to win the right Chase the Devil out of B-r-r-r Moscow, Moscow, Moscow

"Six hundred Moscow children met Bob Lewis. The Reds were on one side and

the blues on the other. Bob gives the new yell three times. The boy or girl who comes to the platform and gets it correct the first time scores one hundred points for their side." Now I quote this out of the paper, all IT. Nthe ungrammatical part of it is the paper's, not mine."Lillian Woodworth, a little girl of about twelve with curls," and she didn't have curls, she had braids,"Came to the platform and wins the prize easily. Every time a coin is dropped in the basingfchey all yell 'Amen' or "Halleluah' or TPraise the Lord." Now I'd like to extrapolate here that it depended on how much the cheering was how much it was worth. Amen for a penny, Halleluah for a nickle, Praise the Lord for a quarter and Glory to God for fifty cents. And if you put in a whole dollar, we went through the whole rigamorole.And in this little story that I wrote,I'11 try to find that and -'quote it to you, later.The paper quoted,"This is a clean sport, healthful and enthusiastic. it is recreation, it is^school, it is worship and it is exceedingly worthwhile." November 19th,"Tonight is Baptist and Christian night.They will meet at the Methodist basement at seven o'clock and march down in a body." November 20th,

MS: "Tonight is Nazarene and Dunkard night."Now Dunkard, I think is the old

expression that was used/locally for Seventh Day Adventists."Friday is Christian Science night. The big crowd of the week is expected on Friday night. November 24."The attack on Christian Scientists was not reported in the Star-Mirror. Why?" And there was a half a page spread on this as to why this was not reported. And someplace, either in my failing memory or in these accounts, it mentions there weren't more than forty members in the Christian Sc.dence church. So why he was attacking them I don't know. "The Sunshine Chorus holds interest.'It's a Good Thing to be a Christian'" sung to the tune of,'Tipperary,' and 'We're the Sunshine Chorus' sung to the tune of,'Keep the Home Fires Burning'. The offering goes to pay for buttons and tags and apparatus and the banquet to be given to the Chorus at the close of the meeting.'^' November 25, headline. "Dr. Bulgin wants more coin.'' Dr. Bulgin-"On eu careful estimate, you folks gave about one and three quarters cent a piece last Sunday. I wish you could make it two cents."November the 25,"The evangalist closes the service by relating the incident of trying to instruct a former Lutheran", L-u-t-h-e-r-i-n-e, right out of the Star-Mirror,"members of his church in the doctrine of assurance.' November 25,"After the sermon, Bob Lewis reads an editorial from the Argonaut. Dr. Bulgin has reported as slandering the university. Exuberance of the youthful editor seems to have inebriated him. Dr. Bulgin related how he had a conference in his room with representative men with the purpose of helping in any way the university life.And he stated that he was £L friend of the university." Now, I may be, my family was maybe more closely related to the quarrel between the editor of the Argonaut and Dr. Bulgin than anybody else in town. Because the editor of the Argonaut was the son of an old family friend. We lived by them down in Emmett. And in the embroil- ment and it really was an embroilment,that he got into with Dr. Bulgin,he would come to my father and talk this over. And he got all the encouragement in the world to resist. And he described the university as a sinkhole of iniquity and sin and sinfullness and whatnot. And the Argonaut printed an editorial which was written by a man who was later one of the editors of Caxton Printers. He became a journalist. And it was very carefully written.

It said,"If Dr. Bulgin said as he as reported to have said that the fraternities

and sororities. And the implication wasAdrink and drugs and promiscuity and sinkholes of iniquity and so on. Then this is not true. Well, Bulgin threatened him with a lawsuit. But my father said,"Don't worry. He didn't say that. He said 'If he said as was reported."' And I hope maybe before you leave and the afternoon is over, I'll remember the man who wrote, he was a student from Lewiston. November 29th, headline."Dr.Bulgin asks for more money. He says Colfax people were easier to get money from than Moscow people."Now he came here from Colfax revival."Dr. Bulgin suggests here that Moscow start a shoe factory with the hides he has tanned here." So you see it was very . December l,"The Sunshine Chorus, Helen Mitchell," that's my cousin,"Lillian Christiansen,"this was a misprint, this was Lillian Woodworth,"Nell Wilson and Elmer Dagman won honors for their repective side. Special mention is given to Catherine Collins,"that's Mrs. Leslie Howies. "Irene Pierce and Luella Olson and Erma Nesbitt for their original surprises. The reds offering was 47 cents ahead of the blue'.' And you got points for whatever side contributed the most money.December 4," The revival meeting entered the fourth week."December 5. "In spite of intense cold, agoodly crowd gathered at the tabernacle last night." I looked up the weather reports and I think it was below zero.December 6."The Sunshine Chorus chants Bible texts, there is acontest on^ong .Lillian Christianson was first in the contest." Again this is an obvious misprint, it was Lillian Woodworth. "Lillian Mitchell also gave one song." This again is a misprint, it was Helen Mitchell, not Lillian Mitchell. Again quoting from December the 5th. "Foolish girls is the sermon subject."December 8."Sunday was one of the big days for the revival service, in which six churches have united,"There are no entries in the accounts from December the 8th to December 13th.It just stopped, it was cut off. There's no editorial, there's no news, no nothing. On December 13th there is a headline. "Dr. E.J. Bulgin is sued for libel. Four plaintiffs known as the Mann Brothers Orchestra. Lawyers Morgan and Bloom for the plaintiffs." And this is the last entry concerning the revival meeting. And it broke off at this particular point.

Now the reason;

he had said that the orchestra was playing ungodly music and that the leader of the orchestra was syphilitic and that he had been turned down for military service in WWI because he had syphilis.Well the plaintiffs sued as a group and I asked my husband, who was a lawyer, to look - up what happened. Because otherwise there was no way of knowing. He said that in the district court the charge was made that the leader of the orchestra and I take it that his name was Mann was syphilitic. And that the plaintiff insisted that he go and have a medical test and he refused. And the local judge, who knew which sides the votes were on, dismissed the suit and the attorney for the Mann Brothers, I don't know who this was, appealed to the State Supreme Court. And the State Supreme Court remanded the case and said "Try it again. He is not obligated to take a medical examination to prove your allegation. You have to prove it, not him." And it drops out of sight from then on.Now I will look through this to see what it was that he said. We had a very good idea what he said always, about the university whether my family was here or not, because this was reported to us by Will Langrois who was the editor of the Argonaut. And(tape is shut off) "Before the banquet, the Sunshine Chorus had a special program for the grownups. We borrowed flashlights from all over town, which we concealed under our blouses. At a signal from Mr. Lewis, we would start waving our lights, while saying'We're the Flashlight Chorus' to the tune of 'Keep the Home Fires Burning.'This was a complete surprise to everyone, even our parents.

As things turned out, there was an even bigger surprise that night. Our

town has a college, it isn't very big and there' hardly ever any excitement. But according to the Rev. Bulgin, there was more sin than we had ever dreamed of. "Dens of vice!" He shouted about the fraternity houses on the campus."Cesspools of iniquity! Sinks of filth dragging down the fairest flower of our youth into the muck of sin and disease!"The veins on his neck stood out and his hair shook down over his eyes. Most of all he was against dancing and jazz."How would you like,"he roared,"to have your daughter clasped in the embrace of a syphilitic saxaphone player, pressed against his diseased wracked body and swaying to a piece of pagan rhythm called'Dardenella?' Naturally the college students didn't like this, and on the night of our spe cial song, he was telling us how somebody in Des Moines had called him a scab on the face of organized religion. "Halleluah Praise the Lord," somebody yelled, and we all jumped. It was a student, and before you could say,"SCAT!" Mr. Lewis had pushed that boy right out the door. And the evangalist explained that he always took the trouble to have Mr. Lewis deputized just as soon as he got to town. From then on we couldn't hear a wor d that Mr. Bulgin said. Someone outside threw rocks on the roof and as they rolled down it was just like a tic tac against your siding on Halloween night. I could hardly wait to get home to tell my father about it. But my mother kept lagging along as if she didn't care when we got home'.' So this was the type of language that he used."Don't you want to tell papa about it? I said, And she said,"Not particularly.If I know your father,his sympathy will be for those hoodlums. If he had been uptown, it wouldn't suprise me a bit if he helping throw rocks."

RF: It sounds like the revival was a big event here in town.

MS: As far as I know, it was the only interdenominational one that was ever

held. And as I say,it breaks off so abrubtly because.this lawsuit and because Mr. Bulgin went down and^got into a fight with George Lamphere who was the owner and publisher of the paper.And Mr. Lamphere said or thought he was never going to get one more word of publicity all the time he was here. So I think the thing sort of perished in the fight. Now one woman who had known him a long time, the Methodist minister's wife, who did not allow her children to go to the Sunshine Chorus said,"He has left a trail of lawsuits all over the country."

RF: I was wondering if that wasn't the way...

MS: It's the pattern. And there had to be something to att aclc* It would either

be, I suppose, depend on the character of the country where he was. In one area, no doubt, it would be Catholics and others, maybe in a German community it would be the slackards and the pro-Germans. Another it would be, as in our town, it was the Christian Scientists. And then he took up after the university students. It was really his attack on the university students that led to the debacle 'cause he got carried away. Eventually he got involved in this lawsuit and my husband said you*probably could go to the district court and find records of this. But what he read was in the Supreme Court reports which just said,"We remand this back to the county court." They had no, the plaintiffs had no right to require him to furnish the medical evidence of the charge. It's up to them.

RF: Did this all take place within the six weeks he was here?

MS: I am sure that, no the Supreme Court would not have reported.during the time

the lawsuit may have been started, but remember that the first notice is November the first, the last one is December the 13th. And this was supposed to have lasted for six weeks. So it was right at the end. And whether Bulgin himself put in an appearance in the court or whether, I would assume he did. But he may have had to come back to do it. Or he may have had to stay over to do it. But he was represented by attorneys who would have carried this through. And when that took place, you'd have to go to the court records to find out. Because there was no record of it in the Star Mirror.

RF: The revival did take it's full six weeks.

MS: I'm sure it did.

RF: Would there be a group that asked Bulgin to come in or did he come on his

own accord?

MS: Yes. No, I'm sure he was, he may have contacted them and said,"I will be in

your area."But I'm very sure this was an agreement among the ministers and their churches. And the ministers may have known of him, I don't know. And the early reports were very fullsome, Very elaborate. And the ministers took turns writing them and it all depended, I suppose, on how enthusiastic the ministers were as to how much they glorified this. And how much detail they went in to. But they were very detailed. He could never have complained about not getting publicity. Because it started out on the front page and eventually as local news usually does, wound up on the back page. But I couldn't find any big ads. They really hadn't spent any money. For the paper. And I think possibly this was part of the feeling between Mr. Lamphere and Bulgin was Lamphere felt,"I gave you all this publicity. And then you come roaring in here and making demands on me for publicity when you've never paid for this." I would assume this took place. I knew Mr. Lamphere, he was a very forthright character. And I think that Mr. Lamphere, when he cut off the publicity, cut off a lot of the interest, because people didn't know. And these hearings that were held at the courthouse probably people didn't know about them, didn't attend them. And when it came right down to it, probably a lot of people were uneasy about a conflict between the organized churches and the university. This wasn't good publicity for the town. And that's what it made it sound like. And I'm sure that they would never have asked or encouraged, I'm sure this was his own idea. Because I'm sure the local churches and the local ministers would, after all, they had student groups of students. I'm sure they never would have encouraged anything like this, which would just rend the town in two.

RF: But once that he had started...

MS: They had no control over him really.

RF: Do you think that had an influence after Bulgin left in their own congregations'

MS: I really don't know. I think I was really to young to, well, I went to

Sunday School, but I rarely stayed for church. I don't know what the ministers might have thought of this.

RF: I wonder what it was like after he left.

MS: I have no idea, as I say, this was 1919, running into early part of 1920's.

There must be lots of people here who were here then and who remember it. There wouldn't be a single minister, of course.

RF: You were telling me how your father really didn't like the idea of revival.

MS: Well it wasn't through any personal experiences of his. I think

didn't approve. And in this little story that I wrote, I tried to bring that out. I don't think my mother was wildly enthusiastic about it either, but she thought that it was an experience that I ought to have, because of the other children. I could maybe read some of the reaction at home.For instance,I'll read you this first page:Ours was a divided house. My mother was an immersing Baptist and my father was a sprinkling Presbyterian. Each one could quote Scripture to support his position. On one point they were agreed. My father said the Old Testament patriarchs spent to much of their time going in onto somebody. And my mother sorrowfully murmured that this was all.true. And when Rev. Bulgin held a revival meeting in our town shortly after the First World War, my parents took opposing points of view.

MS: Mrs. Lewis played the piano for us. She sounded just like player piano.

All runs and trills. I tried and tried at home, but I just couldn't play like that. And papa wouldn't even listen."Just play 'Annie Laurie' for me daughter, and without the variations,please!" He would say."Save the inspirational music for the Sunshine Chorus." (laughs)In the chorus I was on the blue side, and how the reds ever managed to scrape up a few more members than we had, I will never understand. Lillian, with her long straw braids and her million freckles won thousands of points for the reds because she could learn yells and Bible verses instantaneously. Nobody on our side would even go up on the platform against her. Until my cousin Helen got mad one day and she went flashing up there, we only had one way to catch up and that was on the collection. Taking up the collection was the most exciting thing we did. He would carry the plate along the rows and when ever somebody put in a nickle we all hollered"Amen!" For a dime we hollered "Halleluah!" And for a quarter we yelled,"Praise the Lord!" And if anybody put in as much as fifty cents it was "Glory to God!" And the best of all was a whole dollar.He would stop right in front of that lucky person and lead us through the whole rigamorole."Amen!Halleluah!Praise the Lord! Glory to God!" Pennies didn't count unless there was five of them wMch was worth an Amen! One day, MaryAnn Tinnis, she was our washerwoman's daughter, put in a hole dollar. Mr. Lewis stopped right in front of her and right away I knew I was going to be the next one to bring in a dollar. And so at the supper table I said to my father,"I want a dollar." And he said,"A dollar? Great Scot, what for?" So I told him about the collection and why I needed the money. And he said no. I decided to try my mother."You heard what your father said.And besides, you've been taking a dime every single afternoon, and believe me, that counts up. To hear you go on anybody would think your father was a millionaire." I protested,"Well I know we aren't rich, but I happen to know that we have more money than the Tinnis'. If Mrs. Tinnis can give MaryAnn a dollar, as poor as they are, then father could afford to give me one too." "Well,"she said very slowly, as she scalded the dishes, "If you really want that dollar bad enough for me to take in washing so you can show off at the Sunbeam Chorus, I suppose I can," This was an unfair tacK."But I didn't mean for you to take in washing." "Well that's the way it is." She never looked more beautiful or more serene. My father never did give me more than a dime to take, and I guess I was lucky to get that from what I heard him say to my mother after I went to bed."

RF: What did you think about going to this revival?

MS: Well, it was next to the serial movies that were on every Wednesday afternoon

like Eddie Polo, the king of the circus, you know.And the Perils of Pauline. This was the most exciting thing that ever happened to me.

RF: Because all the kids were involved?

MS: Because all the kids were involved. And(laughs) And this again was more

illustrative of what happened at home and the varying points of view. (Reads) Pretty soon our side began to catch up on points. Helen went through her verses as if she had been doing^every day since the revival started and you should have heard the racket on our side. Mr. Lewis kept track of the score which was a secret until the last day, which was the day of the Sunshine Chorus banquet. We took up a collection for the tablecloths and how we did scour the town for more members. The only kids we didn't try to get were the Catholics. Every night as we ran down the board sidewalk to the old tabernacle, they would yell,"Carrot patch, carrot patch, rabbits running for the carrot patch!" They said that because the corner where the tabernacle stood had been a liberty garden during the war, and there were still a few carrots ^the corners. We didn't have the bankers' daughters, but we tried. At first he said his girls positively could not come.. We all took turns going in after school to the bank to ask him again, because we could get four new members. And finally he said that for business reasons he would give his consent. My Aunt Nellie sniffed and said,"It looks to me as if he just wanted to see that they got in on the banquet without putting too much in the collection."Nobody ever did get the Methodist minister's girls there even though the Methodists were very active in the revival. The minister's wife was a woman of very strong conviction. And she said that she knew all about that pair. That they left a string of lawsuits behind them and her children were going to have no part in this revival if she were a minister's wife ten times over."I call that just disgraceful," my Aunt Nell said."She's got grit, and I admire her for it." my mother said firmly. Before the banquet the Chorus had a special program for the grown ups. That's the flaslight chorus.And then we had our last meeting on Friday after school and it was sad,even though we had the banquet to look to.

There would be nothing to do after school now except play. No

more songs and yells. The banquet was changed from Saturday night to noon. And when we got to the tabernacle, Mr. Lewis came down to the front of the platform and said he'd counted all the points and while it was very, very close, he felt he could safely say that, and as he paused nobody even drew a breath, "After taking it to the Lord, the blue side had won the contest." We jumped and screamed until it was just bedlam. He held up his hand."And now for the biggest surprise of all." And we all just sort of moaned in anticipation.The blues would get to eat first. Everybody was perfectly quiet. I didn't know but what I would just as soon as leave eat last as have somebody watching me and waiting for me to finish. But I had to get to my music lesson at one o'clock."Now about the banquet,"Mr. Lewis announced. "If the blues will line up and come down this aisle, across the front and up the other side, they will be served. There are ladies back there and they will give you your dinner." We saw six ladies standing at the ends of the benches facing the aisle and there were big cardboard boxes at their sides. "But what about the tablecloth we collected for?" piped a high voice. And he said that as soon as Mrs. Lewis started to play'Onward,Christian Soldiers' the blues would come down the aisle and the reds jeered feebly as we went by.

The first lady handed me a brown paper sack. The same size I always got

at the store to carry a dozen eggs. The next one dropped in an orange, the next one a banana, and the m a sandwich, and the last a chocolate eclair. She stuffed in a paper napkin and I guess I just stood there looking around. "Well dear,move on now, we have a lot to do."She gave me a little push and I was out the door. I ate my banquet on my way to my music lesson. My father was still sitting at the dining room table when I came in.Mama was out in the kitchen. I sat down and asked if there was anything to eat. Mama looked awfully funny, but she got me some leftovers and I told them all about the banquet. While my father got up and paced around the room. He hummed as he walked and finally he spoke very softly for him."I ought to shoot them. With a bow and arrow." "A bow and arrow Papa?" "Yes. Save powder and lead." Then he picked up his hat and went to work. I saved my book of songs and yells for a long time. But I never went to another meeting. How could the Loyal Temperance Legion or even football games in later years compare with the color and excitement of the old time revival? He whose war songs led us into battle and taught us to meet our enemies face to face across the sawdust aisle?What quiz contest in the shawdow world of television can compare with that daily contest that daily left us limp and swooning with emotion? Who shouts"Amen, Halleluah, Glory to God!"over the winner of the 64,000 dollars except the perspiring MC? What moppet nowadays gazes on blue-black cheeks and into fire and brimstone eyes of a prophet who comes right down to the aisle and exhorts you to live righteoulsy? It was the old time religion and it was good enough for me.(End of reading)

RF: It sounds like it was fantastic.

MS: Well, it was for me. And I think even though I wasn't the active participant

in it, but I was involved very largely because of th^cousin of mine.

RF: What was the most exciting part of the revival?

MS: I think it was someplace to go to every afternoon after school. It was the

constant motion, the excitement of tearing down there pell-mell and the surprises. Some of them were unpleasant suprises, like the banquet. But there was always a surprise

RF: Would it be every day? What would happen?

MS: There was always, I think as I remember it, a new idea.It was either reciting

Bible verses or learning a new song or learning a new yell or some, I don't remember any particular games.But the spirit of competition, and of course taking up the collection took a long time because he went up and down the aisles and I don't know how many kids there were. A couple of hundred I suppose. And it was, and the music which, and he was a pro. He was a profesional and he just brought us up to fever pitch. You know, the yells. It was as exciting as if we had six yell leaders.

RF: Can you tell me how he conducted that competition?

MS: No. I can't. Probably Mrs. Otness and my cousin maybe.

RF: I wonder if he just got right in front of you?

MS: That I don't remember. I remember that Lillian almost always was at the back

of the section where she sat. And he would go over this song. Now she could tell you about this where I couln't. But he repeated maybe part one, I don't remember, part one and went over that and part two. He broke it into sections, of course. And then he would have us say it with him and then say,"Now who's ready to come up and say the whole thing?" And she always made a very flashing entrance, because she always ran down the whole length of the aisle with these long yellow braids, you know, swinging behind her. And of course it got to the place on our side where we could have just perished every time she went down there, because, and then he'd say,"Isn't there anybody on the blue side?"Well there never was anyone who get up and compete with her in the Bible verses and this rapid memory until my cousin took off. And she was very small, was small for her age. And she was a very appealing little girl. And she was very musical and she had a very sweet voice. And a very obedient child, if it was performed now. And she was a very appealing child and I know that he, they brought her to the evening meetings more than once, to have say her Bible verses and to sing just because she was such a very appealing little child. And they may have done the same thing with Lillian. I didn't know. I just knew about the times that my cousin Helen got to perform and we always got to go, or had to go and it was something, I think, a harassment to my parents to have to go to ghese things just because I wanted to go. And I finally stopped nagging my father to go because he never opened his eyes. From the moment he got there, he always closed his eyes and sat as if he were asleep all through the performance. He was listening to everything, but he was very. gave the impression of being very apathetic. And, but I m sure more than once my mother had to get ready and go in the evening because my cousin was performing and because my father wouldn't go. And I couldn't go alone.

RF: They'd be every day after school?

MS: Um hm.

RF: Saturdays and Sundays too?

MS: No, I think just after school, because I made the point in here that the

banquet was on a Saturday. And that I was very much alarmed because I took my music lesson about one o'clock on Saturdays and the lady had a full schedule and I had to get there then and oh, I was just in anguish thinking I wasn't going to get to go to the banquet. So my mother made a great effort to calm my teacher and get the time changed so I could come a little later. And that's why they were so apalled to see me come in from the banquet and my lesson just as they were finishing the:r£ noon meal.

RF: Would you go to your own respective church on Sunday?

MS: I don t remember. I would assume that probably of the churches had

their own services in the morning, but maybe united on Sunday. I wouldn't remember that. Maybe Lillian would, but that I don't recall because I myself was not of the age nor disposition to be a church goer very much. I didn't really care anything about the religious aspect but it was just the excitement and a place to go. And I would have been just as impressed, no matter what it had been. Just as I say, but it had the same excitement and someplace to go, just like Eddie Polo, the King of the Circus. The Perils of Pauline.

RF: Was that the way it was for most of the kids? Just something exciting to do?

MS: Oh yes. I would doubt if at that time there was any great religious revival

sweeping the country.Immediately following the war. I think there was a period of disillusionment. But there were no such religious undercurrents as there are now.People were not calling you up on the phone and saying, "I've found it. Have you found the word?"

RF: A man like this would come through and get people riled up.

MS: Uh huh. And it was a show. And I suspect that on a small scale and on a more

primitive one, it was like the Oral Roberts and the Billy Graham. Because they had the professional singers, the gospel singers.

RF: Was that promise of the banquet a big prize?

MS: Oh yes. Because, and this was going to be the great payoff. And I think we

all had visions of sitting around a banquet tableAsinging the songs, you see, and the yells. Maybe still even, the competitive spiri'dthat we would out sing and out yell them and all that. I found two different versions of this story. This one is shorter and quite different than the ones that I read wMch triggered off all this.

RF: You never attended the night meetings yourself?

MS: Not unless there was something special. I didn't even get to go to the

Sunshine Chorus with my flashlight. I had laryngitis. So, as I say, I went usually to the afternoon ones, but I rarely went in the evening. And not unless my cousin was performing.

RF: Can you remember how they differed from the afternoon ones?

MS: He had a sermon, a hard driving sermon. You see, we didn't get any of that.

This was all fun and games.

RF: So he saved most of the fire and brimstone for evening.

MS: Yes. And all of the Biblical expertise, and as Iread you, at the very first

time, practically that he was here. I can't find this. But that he refuted everybody.(looks for reading) He refuted Plato and everybody.

RF: Was the. tabernacle a permanent building?

MS: No, it was atemporary structure, but it was abig one. They said they

estimated that it would hold two thousand people. It just had benches, there weren't chairs. It was just sawhorses and benches.

RF: Was it wooden?

MS: Yes it was wooden and unfinished. Just electric wires, lights strung through

there. And I would assume there had maybe to have been a big stove somewhere in there. It wasn't in the center, because there was a wide center aisle. But I would assume that they would have just had to have had some heat in there because at one time, see, they had a cold spell when it went below zero.

RF: All the kids would be on the benches?

MS: We were on the benches. We had our coats on all the time and our rubbers.

RF: Was there a podium?

MS: Oh yes, there was abig platform. And I'm sure that from time to time they

probably had amassed choirs from different churches.Maybe one choir sang,one church choir sang one week and one the next.But there was a professional soloist, a gospel singer.

RF: That traveled with them.

MS: That traveled with them. He got mad and left while the^ were here in Moscow.

And he just withdrew, disappeared. And then the man who was the youth worker and his wife who was the accompianist and the one that I envied so much.

WELDON SHIMKE: In connection with your research, something that you should pick

is the legal citation of the libel action when it went to the Supreme Court of the state.I don't have that here, but I can tell you how to get it very easily. As a matter of fact, I did look it up to pinpoint the date an narrow down Margaret's area of search in the newspapers You're familiar with the fact that we've got law reports, that is public cases and also digests. The digest in which to look is the Idaho digest. The point is,if you look it up in the Pacific Digest, the table will index it only under the name of the plaintiff. But in the Idaho Digest is the defendant index, so you can find it under the name Bulgin. In 1920.And that will give you the volume and the page of the Supreme Court decision and both the Idaho and the Pacific.

RF: Sounds like it was a pretty big deal to have it go into court.

WS: I'm a little bit shockedAat what the local court did. It shows the strength

of the clout that the religious community had in those days. Because no such court order, you're familiar with what happened, are you not?

RF: Just from what Mrs. Shimke is telling me.

WS: The court order requiring the plaintiff to submit to an examination. No

such order would have been ordered against any defendant any plaintiff anywhere under the face of the sun at that time.It was absolutely clear off the reservation, and of course, the Supreme Court so held. But it was the sentiment of the community, the devout, the pious.

RF: They turned on Bulgin then.

WS: That ft what was responsible for the decision at the district court. The

one that was reversed. I don't know what happened in the case after it came back here, I wasn't here then.

RF: The religious community brought Bulgin in, and when he started saying the

wrong thing, they caused that to reverse.

WS: Most of them, I'm afraid, didn't know what he was in the first place. They

find out when he got here.(laughs)

MS: It wouldn't surprise me too much if this was not a plus for the local

ministers. I think maybe some of them left fairly shortly after that, because see, it stirred up the town in a different way than they thought it would, And as I say, I was telling her about Bulgin going into Mr. Lamphere. Well here, when he ran into the newspaper you see, and as I look through these old papers in the archives, I couldn't find any ads. They weren't taking out ads,'Come to the revival meeting.' They were getting front page publicity for weeks. The ministers took turns writing their analyses of the sermoni". And they would run practically a whole column. Well , whatever the quarrel was, and I don't know just what it was, between Mr. Lamphere and Bulgin, I suspect it was because Mr. Lamphere, in his paper, published the Argonaut. And, but when he ran head on into Mr. Lamphere, the publicity was whang. It was . His name was never mentioned, there was not one story, there was not one other thing. He might just as well have been ascended in a clap of thunder. Because he was gone.

RF: So there was that and the religious community.

MS: Well as I say, I think the church people and the ministers didn't intend to

bring about any confrontation with the local paper or the university.And he had opened a two front war here that they were not prepared to see all the way through.

RF: He just liked to stir it up.

MS: And of course, he didn't have to answer for this, he could go to the next

town.

RF: Why do you think that was his method?

MS: Well I think thought, he could get more money. That people would get so

wrought up that people would contribute to the cause. Well,of course, he certainly didn't understand Moscow. They were not about to raise money against the paper or against the university. And as I say, after all, Mr. Lamphere got money from the university for publishing the Argonaut. And the reason that I was very much aware of the attitudes about the Argonaut was because the editor of the Argonaut was coming down to talk to my father about,"Mr. Wilson, what should I do next? Have I gotten my neck in the noose?" And if I can recall in my failing memory, I will eventually remember the name of the man, the journalism student who wrote this editorial And Bulgin...

WS: Langrois?

MS: No. Langrois was the editor of the paper. It was a man who later became one

of the editors of Caxton's. And he became a journalist and Will Langrois came flying down to see my father, said,"He's threatening to sue the Argonaut and me as editor of the Argonaut because..." And my father said, "Dismiss it from your mind." He said,"Every sentence starts out, If Mr. Bulgin said,as he is reported to have said that the fraternities were sinkholes of iniquity and the sororities were houses of.."'

MS: ...to make the direct accusation.

RF: I wonder if Bulgin thought this town was more conservative with money than

the other towns?

WS: My bet is that it was just his method.This took place in 1919. Right after

the war in 1946 or '47 we were on the north side in Spokane,Washington and I found a ramshackle old tabernacle there, I saw the sign, BULGIN across the front of it, in '46 or '47. This was his SOP, his standard operating proceedure. It had been successful for him in the past and it was the same one that he always used.

RF: I wouldn't think that a community would welcome him back.

WS: Possibly he wasn't welcomed back very long.

RF: Make the money and gcu.

WS: If he could convince the suckers that he had done great things in the last

community.

RF: Do you know if he traveled the whole country, or was he mostly in the west?

MS: I don't know about the east, but I am sure that he was around the middle

west and he, as I say, he boasted that he left a trail of lawsuits, and that he always collected of course, in his story. But he told about Iowa and Illinois and where all he had been. And so I am positive and.I think I checked with my cousins in the middle west about that, that he was around the middle west and possibly the south. I don't remember that he ever mentioned the New England area. But I think that he was of the Billy Sunday tradition. The rouser. But he, and I noticeathat you raised your eyebrows -when I said his assistants were deputized the minute he came.This shows something.

RF: They knew there was going to be trouble.

MS: Yes, they were just anticipating that...

WS: They wanted trouble.

MS: Yes. Here's the one that I couldn't, in his opening service he refuted

Plato, William Harvey, Herbert Spencer, (laughs) And of course, as my father would have said, of course Bob Ingersoll. Because they all over him.

RF: It seems like a strange way to get publicity, to come to town and stir

up trouble.

MS: It was quite usual.

WS: You're familiar with Elmer Gantry? Sinclair Lewis book. Well it was a

reasonably profitable way to make a living. I'm not sure but that it still is.

MS: Well yes, look at the millions.They're a traveling circus. Aimee Semple

McPherson.

WS: Dr. Billy Graham and Oral Roberts.

MS: It's a show.

WS: Not to mention the Moonies.

MS: It's a show and ...

WS: We had Psychiana centered here in Moscow,

MS: Well yes, miracles were performed right here. Goldfish jumping in and out

of the bowl. People passing through doors.

RF: But he didn't feel that hellfire and brimstone wasn't enough to pack them

in. He needed that publicity in the news.

MS: He must have thought that this was bringing, the standing up, the conflict

right down to the grass roots when you were going to stand up for what you believe or what he believed. And put down somebody else. You can't well put down someone else if you don't have an enemy. He wasn't there to stir up the troubles between the Presbyterians and the Methodists. But he did launch a great crusade, according to what I read in the paper, against the Christian Scientists. Well believe me, that was a feak and weeble(Weak and feeble) section. There probably weren't more than forty Christian Scientists over this whole area. And if he had come sweeping in here to do battle with the Catholics or the Methodists, he would have had a battle on his hands.

RF: That's why he left them alone pretty much?

MS: I can't remember, he made snide remarks about the Lutherans, and that was

spelled in the Idahonian LUTHERINE. I don't know. I have never known, no one would ever know whether these write ups like that were done by him or by a local reporter or by a minister. Now for a while there was a report every night of the sermon written by the Rev. Dean Hamilton or the Rev. Wayne Snoddy. And then gradually this, and by the way, they weren't very entertaining reading.

RF: They were reports of the day?

MS: Of his sermon of the previous evening. But they certainly got a lot of

newspaper space. But you know, who wants to hear Spencer or Harvey refuted. (laughs)The people didn't know who they were. So It didn't begin to get exciting until he launced into local people. Until he took off on the Lutherans and the Christian Scientists and their beliefs and until he took off on the university students. And it was, he was as wrought up about jazz as anybody possibly could be about hard rock.

RF: Do you think he would come into this community and get the feeling that

people didn't like the university, or didn't like a certain group, or would he devise that himself?

MS: I don't know. I have a feeling that maybe it was trial and error on his part

and the voice of experience that first/he attacked one and then the other. And if this didn't work. But of course, I'm sure he felt that he had a fertile field here. The university students wouldn't be, for the most part, members of the community. But when he ran into the Argonaut and Mr. Lamphere, he was running into a vested interest. Because Mr. Lamphere got paid for printing the Argonaut. And I think Mr. Lamphere would have been mad if, to have had anybody question what came out in the Argonaut, whether he read the column or not. But it so happened that the reports name was Gipson Stalker. There was a Stalker family in Lewiston. And he later became associated with the Caxton printers in Caldwell. As I say, he was a pro, he became a pro. And whether he had any illegal guidance in this article that he wrote, which never came out and said, "He said it is reported that he said. And if he did." My father was just charmed with that. He said"tlon't worry, they can't get you on this." Andjbut I do remember how genuinely alarmed Bill Langrois was. He was young, I think at that time. He later went to law school. But I think that at that time he was an undergraduate. And that he felt that it was his neck that was in the noose, that he was responsible for this. And then later on he went to law school, the head of the top legal firm in Boise. He s the Langrois, Church, Smiley law firm.

WS: Langrois, Clark and Sullivan. Clark's are all dead. Bill Sullivan, he must

be up in years. Church belonged to it.^Recently the resigned judge,Hagan joined it.

MS: And this Ruth Boiler from Lewiston. I mean, from Gooding.

WS: This is entirely besides the point, but it reminds me of„using of lawfirms,

the names of partners long dead. And this was the bar association banquet in 1946. They held it that year in Boise. Subsequently it was usually^Sun Valley, but Sun Valley was still used as convalescent hospital by the Navy. our So i banquet was at the Boise Hotel. And the firm that Eberly was a member of, senior member of it was Richards and Hagan. Whose an old, old established firm I remember conferring with Oliver Hagan in the late 1930's. And I'm sure that Richards was never alive during the time that I was a member of the bar. The Boise Hotel was right catty corner across from the Idaho building. Where the Richards and Hagan offices were. The principal banquet speaker was the Episcopal bishop for Idaho. And seems as if Eberly was one of his parishioners. And he sort of made this speech, he said, on behalf of Eberly he would have expressed."Please tell my frineds that when I die, that they should shed no tears. For I shall not be deadier than my firm has been for years."

MS: But it's kind of interesting that men like Bill Langrois and Gipson Stalker

in their salad days would .run head on into such a man as Bulgin and have also been dealing with such a man as Mr. Lamphere. And I think of course, that had Mr. Lamphere folded on this, and had he not been a fighter, why those two young men, I think could literally.been scared out of their professions. The ones that they hoped to go into.

RF: But Lamphere had this vested interest.

MS: Well, he owned the paper. He wasn't in a position to be frightened. And

he. ..

RF: Didn't he stand up to Robinson too?

MS: Yes. And eventually he had to be bought out, because they couldn't scare

him out. And he owned land and had investments and insurance and the paper and that was just one of his... Mr. Lamphere, in one waa, was something of a tragic figure. He had just one son who was going to be a journalist. I think he was trying to make this paper to hold it together and trying to hang on to the publication of the Argonaut and so on Atil his boy could come along. And the boy died of tuberculosis- he was, I don't,maybe about the time he graduated or shortly afterward anyway. This was the blow, I think that caused Mr. Lamphere eventually to sell out as he had hoped to. He had hoped to have this a family...

WS: He didn't sell out. The sale, the merger took place only after he was dead.

They were out riding in a car,his son-in-law and a grandson. They had laid a rifle or a shotgun, whatever it was, across the back of the car. The boy was in the back of the car and he picked it up to turn it around or hold it or do something and it went off and shot his grandfather, killed him.

WS: It was a .22 rifle. The boy took it along to shoot some ground squirrels.

Which was a very common pastime in those days.

RF: What year was that?

MS: I don't remember. In the early 1930's, wasn't it?

WS: Early 1940's . I know because in 1937 and '38 i connection with the

Troy sewer bond issue. I was playing one paper off the other on the publication of the Troy notices.Around 1940 is a pretty fair guess.

MS: But it was a, I think maybe a particularly sad thingAthat the grandson who

had the accident was an adopted boy. It wasn't his own grandson. And I'm sure the daughter, it was the daughter's child, they were just, as they would be.

WS: Over a period of several years why, pressure had been building up. The

Moscow businessmen are under such pressure to advertise in both newpapers that they found it quite burdensome and they were reaching the point where they were going to tell the newspapers,'You consolidate. And they were ganging up to a point where thad"merger was just a question of time. And it was Lamphere's death...

RF: I wanted to ask a little more about the revivals. I was interested in

what happened to the building after the revival was finished. Do you know how long it was standing?

MS: I think not long. I think it was probably sold almost immediately probably,

for, as used lumber. But no, it did not stand there, I don't believe, any appreciable length of time. I think it was dismantled.

RF: And a Christian church was built?

MS: Later on. Yes.

That wasn't the same structure as the tabernacle? Oh no. This other one was very rude. In fact, the first time I read this paper, there were two or three women there who knew of this. And they thought, one of them said she thought it had a tin roof. And the other one thought that it just had canvas over it. But I am sure that this wasn't true because they, as I say^had zero weather during this time. Six below zero. One night. And besides, our climate is not such that they could just, it couldn't have been a tent. And besides they tell in here about bringing in the lumber from Felton's mill. Out there by where ever it is. So, and I think that it was roofed over and the night that these college students came, they threw rocks up on the roof and as they rolled down it created such a din on the inside that you couldn't hear anything. Now this could have been tin. That could have been. But it was in the height of this uproar about the university students. And of course, I think that his attack was just in general about the sin and so on. But he zeroed in on the editor of the Argonaut, and the fellow who wrote this editorial, Stalker, and the band. That played Dardenella.

RF: The Mann Brothers?

MS: Yes.

RF: HE just happened to catch their act in Moscow?

MS: I don't know whether he ever heard them or not. I don't know. And I don't

know if he'd ever gone to any of their dances or not. I would question that. This Mann was from Colfax, wasn't he? The leader of the orchestra? Well some way or other, Bulgin had come here I believe, from Colfax. And some way or other, of course, he'd gotten into it over in Colfax with the American Legion. And so it some way sticks in my memory that this orchestra leader was from Colfax. And, but I could have been wrong about that.

RF: Before the tabernacle, you said there was a victory garden on the same

spot. Do you remember much about that?

MS: No. Except that it was planted to vegetables,

RF: I don't know much about victory gardens.

MS: Well, I think then, as in WWII, it was considered to be ecological, a

patriotic thing, to put gardens into every vacant lot. And this was right downtown, now I don't know who did it. Whether it was, whether the post office employees volunteered or whether, but it was a patriotic gesture and it had been a victory garden. And they just finished it. It had been plowed up.

WS: The handling of saving food in WWI was much much different than^it was in

early WWII.There was no such thing as ration stamps. As a matter of fact, about all there was rea publicity. There wasn't any sense of control of prices as there was. WWII. With the result that the scarce commodities went up in price very, very rapidly. And the greatest pressure was people to save wheat, meat. There were eggless days, there were milkless days, there were butterless days, there were meatless days.

RF: During WWI.

WS: WWI, yes. So that practically it :what we'd call jawboning today,

That together with this relentless rise in price. And I would say that, of course, the real shortages encompassed the major staples. But I can't say there were any severe shortages outside of that.Wheat and bread was a much more substantial part of the daily diet than we know it today. There were so many things that we take as a matter of course today that simply did not exist. One example is chili. Chili came in around 1919. And it was a craze.Small towns would sprout a chili parlor. Bob's Chili Parlor in Spokane made a fortune. And then eventually people wereAcharmed to find they could buy chili powder in stores! Prior to that time, the only way you could get chili was to go to one of these chili parlors. And they with the chili parlors they brought tamales also. But anything in the way of ethnic cuisine, cookery, was almost wholly non-existant then. Iidon't know how old I was before I had my first Chinese meal. For example. And things like pizza, far, far in the future.

RF: Was there a chili parlor in Moscow?

MS: Yes, there was a Bob's Chili Parlor

RF: Was it like a franchise?

MS: No, not that I know of. I don't know. They must have bought from wholesalers.

It was where Anderson and Felton and whatever his name, where that law office is now, right there on the alley. Jerry's was across the alley and it was the confectionary and cigar store. And yes, it was a chili parlor and there was a stairway going up to a balcony and I can't remember the Bob was. I mean, that was his real name.

WS: Woods.

MS: Bob Woods, uh huh.

WS: He used to run the Blue Bucket for years, didn't he?

MS: Uh huh.

WS: Ncwthe Blue Bucket was privately owned. It was the nucleus of what is

now the Student Union Building.

RF: Didn't Dean French start that?

MS: Uh huh. She built it, I believe.

RF: It seems like in a place like Moscow, everybody would have gardens. Why

would they have a victory garden.

MS: I think that was maybe just again, just publicity, you couldn't go downtown

without seeing a big victory garden. And it was the idea that here we have one right downtown, whst are you doing with your backyard.

RF: Was the purpose to promote patriotic feeling?

MS: I think so, yes. Just a reminder. Probably that was federally owned, wasn't

it. I think that whole block was owned. I don't know.

RF: What was done with the goods that came out of the garden.

MS: I don't know. I have no idea.

WS: In '28 when I came here, the Christian church was there.

RF: How long did the Christian church stand there?

MS: Til about ten years ago I guess.They consolidated with another church and

it stood for a while and then there was as much discussion as there is now about what do we do with the Christian church and eventually I guess the city bought it, didn't they? Didn't the city buy it and then tear it down for a parking lot? But it was a brick building and not as old as a lot of the other churches.

RF: Seems that as long as Moscow's been here there's been a lot of building.

WS: There was some New York writer that some years back wrote,"They're tearing

down buildings that I saw built." I never thought that time would come to me, but it's he££. (laughs)

RF: I see it too , and I haven't lived in Moscow all that long.

WS: Well, there's some local changes. The main street businessmen don't have

the clout that they used to be. There were two or three of them that were archdukes and the rest were dukes, or a good many of the rest. Then perhaps a few lower gentry. But they put:their heads together and decide what to do.

WS: ...what to advocate and, but the coming of the first of the supermarkets

outside control, now the shopping malls. The mainstreet businessman is pressed just to hold his own. And so far as political influence is concerned, it is a thing of the past. He is relegated to the position of ordinary citizen and it wasn't that way 50 years ago. It just wasn't that way. They ran the show. When the chips were down, they had a substantial voice in university policy, if it was anything that concerned them. And in return, they took care of the political needs of the university. The university wasn't doing it's own politicing in those days. It was done by the Main street business men in Moscow. I think that is an alliance which has just slowly faded away. Faded away because the .Main street businessman no longer has such clout. And they no longer enjoy the unique position with reverance to the university that they once did. Everything at the university b$iys now practically without exception is done on open bids. It wasn't that way once. And the rest of the state didn't get much of a chance.(laughs) It was placed with some local businessman. There was no student bookstore. Where did students buy their books? At Hodgins Drugstore.

RF: Would other stores sell the books?

WS: It was just Hodgins.

MS: After a while there was a Shurfee's.

WS: But they didn't handle the university books. You see, all the textbooks, the

system isn't going to work unless the teacher certifies what the book is and sends it to the book dealer and then he it publisher. Now you can't, if you've got, let us suppose, 24 in a class, that is about the number of books that a dealer would want to order. You can't very well have a competitive set up. With two or more dealers. You're going to have a lot of leftover merchandise. So that all the textbooks and so on, that was handled through Hodgins.Wylie Logger had all the cement business sewed up. Nobody in Latah county could buy so much as a pound of cement without buying (laughs)from W.H. Logger. W. A. Logger.

RF: It's a real change to see those shopping centers. As opposed to the independent

business people.

MS: I think the funny part of it too, that Mr. Kenworthy who waw the kingpin of

the king's, really was the one who broke it wide open when he, I think, when he built the Safeway shopping center. He b. ought up all that property behind his theaters and before that, why Safeway was just a whole in the wall just like any other grocery. It was no supermarket,

RF: But it was a Safeway?

MW: There was one here. It was on Main street. In there...

WS: Occupied part of what is now the Penney place.

MS: As I say,it was no supermarket. He built this building and leased it to

them over the long term lease.I mean on a long term lease. But they success fully fended off Sears and Mongtgomery Ward. In factk all of the downtown business closely held that they couldn't find a place to and this was before the day of the shopping mall, when you took your car out and parked there. And this was still the time of the local deliveries when you could call up and have the groceries sent up to your house. And but, I think that Safeway broke that pattern. Come and get it yourself and pay cash. And there were no more charge accounts and there were no more deliveries. I mean, there weren't at Safeway's.And once they got this bigger store with a place to park, even the faithful deserted the others then.

RF: The people who would give you credit. I would think that people would want

that credit.

MS: As far as I know there's only two left. Modernway, which will take some

MS: There was that few cents difference in the pric£. And as I say, even some

of the people who were in the closely held community^broke down and went to these other places. And of course, you didn't have the choice in the smaller stores with the charge accounts. They didn't carry as many lines. I mean they carried one line of grocery.Like Round up groceries. And if you didn't like that kind of canned tomatoes, that was tough.

RF: It was more like people would rather have that choice.

MS: And be able to choose among several brands for several prices.

RF: When did the new building go up?

MS: I don't know. Safeway's, the present one.

WS: There have been two buildings on that location. The first one was built

some time in the latter thirties, I'm going to say 1937 or '38. And it didn't occupy all the ground that it does now. It came up to the corner of Fifth and Washington. And the building itself, the front, was right directly on Fifth. You walked from a street right into it. The parking lot then was along side.And it was much smaller. And in the rear of the Safeway premises there was something originally built as a private house, that Dr. Zimet was using as his cat and dog hospital as well as his home. And then on the other side of that, a small brick garage. That was where Low, the tractor man?

MS: Harold Low?

WS: Harold Low. I would always have my tractor down there to repaired.

Harold Low was in the state senate for a "number of years too. They were n on the corner. But Safeway's obviously was cramped with, it wasn't enough space for the store,it wasn't enough space for parking. So that Kenworthy was eventually able to pick up these other two pieces of property and the present building then, I'm sure.it was only built after the way.But not too long afterwards. Sometime prior to 1950,anyhow. And if I remember correctly, they built the new building without tearing down any of the old. That is, the new building is sited in the rear where the old building was.The old building was where the parking lot was, fronting directly on Fifth street. So that it must have been quite shallow. And the new building was of course, as I say, further back and it took the rest of the block on all the way back.

RF: Was that the first franchise here in Moscow?

WS: Safeway's? Well there's been Penney's store here ever since I can remember.

RF: That was here before Safeway?

WS: Um huh. I would say there was.As a matter of fact, prior to Safeway there

was a Piggly Wiggly. Piggly Wiggly became Safeway. When I was in college there was a Piggly Wiggly store In the ground floor of what's now the Thatuna Apartments. Where Brown Furniture is.

MS: I'd forgotten that. I probably never went in it.

RF: Did you come here to go to college?

WS: Yes.

MS: To go to law school.

WS: In '28.

RF: Are you originally from Idaho?

WS: No, I was born in the state of Washington. I went to high school and two

years of college in Spokane. But my mother died and at the time I came down here to law school, why, the family broke up housekeeping, my father moved down to Southern Idaho, Twin Falls,which was my legal residence then, during the time that I was in school. And he remarried down there.

RF: That's what brought you to the University of Idaho school? You'd been

living in Idaho?

WS: Yes.

RF: Whan you were in law school, which was the building you were taking

classes in?

WS: It was in the Ad building.

RF: The one there were in before they built the new law school?

WS: Oh yes, but they...

MS: It was up on the third floor then,the old law school.

WS: When I was in law school, we were up on the second floor of the Ad building,

right at the head of the stairs. The library consisted of two rooms there in the Ad. Building. The dean had an office of his own. All the professors were crammed into one room, and they had two classrooms then, I'm sure there were two. And that was all the space they had. The faculty consisted of four persons, including the dean.But I would say that even the traditions that they had in those days involved a high standard of scholarship. In the early 1920's, law school was a pipe, that's where all the athletes were enrolled.That was in the early 1920's. And sometime inithe mid-1920's that was changed. It may be that ^ean Davis, who was the first year that I came here was brought in to affect that change. And of the men that he had there, there was Davis came from Harvard, Jacob came from Harvard, Moreau was from Wisconsin,I've forgotten who the fourth member of it was, but it was heavily flavored with Harvard tradition. And the standard of scholarship that some of those men insisted on was quite rigorous,

MS: Did Howard come here a$ dean or did he come here as teacher first?

WS: I think he came as a professor.Oh yes. The fourth member of that year

was Masterson. He was Harvard. But I think it was Jacob who told us this story. I think this might have been the very first class session. Something that he said was told to all Harvard freshmen law students.The first day."Take a good look at the man on your right and at the man on your left. Because at the end of the first semester, one of you probably won't be here."(laughs)But there were two moves. Some time I can't pinpoint this date with precision. But it was sometime in the 1930's, The law school was moved up to the third or top floor, south wing of the Ad building. The library was still clear in the western most portion. And I remember the afternoon sun would come in there and there weren't shades so much that some of the buckram bookbindings of the law books were just literally bleached. And I dare say they still are, those of the books that were left in that location. Well, this time the library, I think was stil in one room. It was a somewhat bigger room. And I think they had two office rooms for professors rather than one. They also had two classrooms, as before. I taught for one semester before going into the service, I taught up there, that was in 1943. The spring of 1943. Then during the war, I was gone, things were just,it was just strictly a maintainance or holding operation. During, I don't know^. " this was during both years of the war, that is, from '43,'44,'45 or just one. There were four students.Needless to say, they said as little to that as possible to the legislature and they were trying to keep the law school together as a going proposition. Well, I got out in September '45 and I came back to teach. And still up on the third floor there. And it was crowded, it was unsatisfactory. The university library was on the first floor of the Ad building, on the ground floor in the south wing. And somebody decided that when the new university library building was built that if the law school would take over that, they could use these library stacks. That were there. So that space was remodeled, and this time there was much, the biggest growth in the amount of space they had in the law school. They had all these stacks from the old general library and they had three classrooms including one that was a courtroom. They had a whole lot more office space. And they had one for each professor. And they had some better accomodations for the secretarial help and for the librarian. But in the meantime, apparently the enrollment had been growing like jackrabbits when I was in college in 1928 to '31 law school, the law school enrollment was about 30,They were graduating about ten a year. By 1946 or '47, the enrollment was up somewhere around 75. Or there abouts. Today I understand it's around three hundred, at any rate, past 250. But the, this space on the Ad building3 that was something magnificent compared to anything that we'd had before. What happened is the enrollment just outgrew it. And made the new building just about a necessity.

RF: What was the year the law school was started here?

WS: It was a fairly early school. I think it goes back, I'm going to say sometime

around 1905, 1908,

RF: Do you know where that faculty was from originally?

WS: I don't know.

RF: I was thinking, where else would the lawyers be getting educated in this

area. Do you know if there was a law school at any of the other universities?

WS: Well I'm sure that's why the law school has always had the support that

it has had. Was the feeling that it would be too bad to have not to have a local school. Idaho after all ' some things in the law that peculiar to itself. Well, not exactly, but at any rate, different from the general run. We've got some differences in our community property theory from any that you'll find any where else. But I'm sure the feeling was that if we had to rely^on both for our bar and our judges, on men that were trained exclusively outside the state, that they might not have either the interest in or the knowledge of local problems. I'm sure that entered into the thinking somewhere along the line.

RF: What were some of the things that were special problems?

Irrigation and water rights for example, is one,When I was in law school we didn't have any course in irrigation water rights and we didn't have any course in mining law. But they usually would have somebody come in and give us a course in night lectures. Somebody who was reasonable well informed in that field. And we got something out of it. Well the day of that of course has long since been changed. And putting together ciriculums and writing the books ,why the telescope water rights and mining rights and the law students have their own name for the course.That course they called Rocks and Water. But it's something that's a basic importance to the state and something that our western theory of water rights is completely different from the common law theory. The result is that somebody trained in the east or even the middle west wouldn't have awadequate understanding of the document of appropriation. Which pertains throughout the western states. In the east, the common law doctrine of rip.-arian rights is something that was simply borrowed from the common law of England. That if a stream is flowing through somebody's property, he has a right to make use of the stream but that essentially has to return water to the stream substantially undiminished. He can't drain it and deprive the owner below of his similar rip: arian rights. Now in countrys, areas where there's plenty of water, that system works fine. But in arid areas where you can make land productive only through irrigation, that becomes completely impossible. So there was adopted, developed the doctrine of appropriation. That the water right belongs to the man who first appropriates it and puts it to a useful purpose. And when he appropriates it, develops it, puts it to a useful purpose, the people below can't do anything about it and the people above have got to leave his water alone.

in Southern Idaho depend ^on decisions In a number of individual cases. Adjudicating what the rights are and it's effect on the area is enormous. Now there's an area south of Twin Falls called the Salmon tract. Pretty fair land, not the best in the tract. But the point is that they've got a limited water right only when there's water left over. So to speak, prior approprators don t use, then the result is: that land is under plow about one year in three. And the other years it grows up to weeds. You have land north of the Snake River in Jerome country, Jerome-Gooding. Some years, that is not farmed either. Because there doesn't happen to be any water that year. The Twin Falls tract itself has got perhaps as good and substantial a water right, not only in legal security, but in amount, as any place in the state. And it's lush and it produces like a garden of Eden.

RF: I'd like to ask you about when you were a student here. Where were you

living when you first came here?

WS: I was at Lindley hall all during the time I was at collegs.That's now a

university parking lot, it's been torn down.a couple of years ago. Rfc': When you were here in '28, so near the depression, did that have any bearing on your going to school, did you feel that? Did you work?

WS: I worked for a time downtown all the time.So I saw a good deal more of

life downtown than most university students did.And there's no question about the effect of the depression. I would say that in one way we were isolated from it. It was before, there weren't many radios and newsbroadcasting as we know it today didn't exist then even on radio. And we didn't take newspapers. We didn't see newspapers. Literally, we had very little idea what was going on in the outside world. I know that my father was very hard pressed during those years. I had very little money to get along on. That's, I had to earn a major part of my expenses. And I was perhaps lucky to have any help at all and really lucky to be able to make it through law school.

RF: How much was tuition in those days?

WS: Well, it was very small compared with what it is today, I doubt if general

fees ran over fifty dollars a semester. I'm sure they didn't.

RF: There'd be room rent and you'd have to buy books.

WS: Oh yes.

RF: So you'd have to work.

WS: The university room rate would paid to the university a semester

at a time in advance. And the board bill, you could pay as it came due. Of course, some guys got behind in that too. Did you attend the university too, Mrs. Shimke? Um huh.

MS: Well, I was an English major and I later went into teaching.

Did you go all four years?What did you study.

RF: Did you teach in this area?

MS: Well, I went...

RF: Did you two meet when you were going to school?

MS: No, we just never happened to.

RF: It happened after you were out of school?

MS: Yes, it was after I had taught in south Idaho and I came home. My father

knew him. But I didn't.We just never happened to meet. Well for one thing, he was in the law school, so he wasn't, had not been an undergraduate here, so he didn't really have the acquaintance, you know, that you would have if you had started in as a freshman and gone all the way through.

WS: Law school was a little world all to itself.

RF: It still is.

WS: There wasn't too much rubbing of shoulders with the rest of the student

population.

MS: But the ones who go - through undergraduate, you know, that have an

acquaintance that you wouldn't have if you wouldn't be going to a professional school like that.

RF: Did you have to work to go to school too?

MS: No.

RF: You were able to go?

MS: Uh huh. I lived at home and very few at that time practically none of the

boys or girls who lived in town ever lived on campus.For one thing, our folks couldn't afford it. And another thing, they didn't encourage that, because the houses and dormoritories were built for out of town students not ones who lived here in town. And so this, it was almost unheard of for anybody, for instance, if your folks went away for a semester, or a year or something like that, why you maybe oould get in, but housing was tight enough and local students weren't....

WS: This business about housing reminds me of a curious conflict that

developed in the late 1930's. During this interval I was city attorney. Margaret's father was mayor and appointed me city attorney. Iknew him for some years before I knew her. But anyhow, there was always some argument about student housing in town. And Carl Smith, who was the fire chief, he felt that a lot of these places were student housing upstairs should have an outside stairway.To provide an exit in the event of fire. He however, came into conflict with the indominable Dean French, dean of women, who felt that the outside stairways represented the threat to the morals of the students.(laughs) I won't say that there was ever any settlement of the outside stairway problem, but you'll see around town, some houses that have got such stairways, others that don't.

RF: She must have been quite a woman. I've heard that she was something to be

feared before graduation, but after that the students had a great deal of respect for her.

MS: I think that she took it that it was her job, at least as far as the

girls were concerned, that she was in loco parentis. And the parentis felt if she hadn't done everything that she could in the way of enforcing rules, that parents would have held her responsible.And it was small enough enrollment and enough of them came, I think were early supports of the university and maybe not graduates themselves, but I think that she did what the mores of the time demanded. And that they had house mothers at the sorority houses , well they had house mothers at the dormitories too. And it was not just a stat thing. Those house mothers were there to enforce the rules. The boys of course had a lot more freedom and house mothers that they had usually either didn't live there, just came in for state occassions or else they lived in a little apartment where they saw nothing and heard nothing and were told nothing.(laughs) But the girls were closely supervised. And I think there were very few girls on campus who ever had cars.That was almost unheard...

WS: There were not many male students who had cars either. There were some.

They were came from relatively affluent families. But the student who had a car was a rarity. There weren't very many of them.

RF: If you were from town, you probably weren't in a sorority.

MS: I'd say the majority were not. Some of them were because they had,either

had the kind of a grade point that the sorority would like to add to theirs or their parents had big homes and could help entertain, you know, or had silver services that they could borrow and furniture and that sort of thing. And there were, what did they call the women,patronesses, I believe, that lived in town, married women who might or might not have families and they helped with the entertaing I'm sure. Because they loaned dishes and silver and tablecloths and things of that sort. And so there were girls who came from that kind of family who had, who s parents could donate something of that sort. And then I think maybe the children of, both boys and girls of faculty members tended to join because their parents had belonged at their schools or maybe they were going on to school from here and they wantedAthat connection.

RF: Was it much of a status to belong to the sorority?

MS: Oh yes, I think it was, because their housing was much more elegant than

the dormitories were or than most of our homes were. And they....

WS: The fraternities and sororities too had a good deal more organized social

activity than you would find. The town men's and women's organizations and the dormitories did have social activities and had social organizations. But there wasn't as much of them.

RF: So it would be desirable then to...

WS: Yes, there was some point to it.

MS: I think they had, there were just dinner exchanges every week, with the

others, with the ones who lived on campus who belonged to fraternities and sororities, but they had lots of dances and formal and informal and whatnot and they could have them small enough they could have them right in their houses. And so, yes, they had asocial life that was a thing apart from the ones who, and even, I don't think that even the dormitories had dances so often. But it was sort of a period of,where the dances and the dinners were the main social functions.

RF: Would most kids have found it to be desirable to be in a sorority or a

fraternity?

MS: I think so. It was a status thing. And ...

RF: Did you try to pledge a sorority?

MS: No.I suppose that there were ways, influences that you could have used,

but if there were I didn't know what they were, and my parents didn't come from that kind of background. They were small town people and they college, graduates and as I say, if there are ways to make your weight felt then I suppose if I had had lots of money and lots of clothes and a car and that sort of thing. But I wasn't driving a car I think, til I was a junior or thereabouts. And it was,it's funny. Their status and the place they occupy seem to change.

WS: You might be interested in one true story about the sorority rushing.

The year, this must have been, what was the name of this gal from Lewiston that became a singer?

MS: Bollinger.

WS: Yeah. Anne Bollinger.This must have been around, was it in the thirties?

MS: No, it was later than that.

WS: Yes, I'm going to put it, not in the 40's. Sometime around 1947,'48,

thereabouts. The system, the rushing system that they employed, it isn't something they invented, they called it the lawyer system and I was the lawyer who drew this happy assignment.(laughs)It was essentially every girl that was interested in pledging a sorority would fill out a little slip indicating the sororities of her choice in order of preference, one, two, three. And the sorority organization always was hush-hush. That is,it was very secret and nobody could see any records anybody else had turned in. And the rushing organization, and each sorority, would send me a list of the girls that they wanted. Also in order of preference. Now my job, in the first place, was to match them up.Actually it turned out to be simpler than 1^expected because there was, it was all cut and dried, that is, this had all obviously been arranged before it hit me. So that in practically every instance it was a first choice match against a first choice. And then the girls who were invited to pledge, I had to send out by messenger, "they had to reach their residence houses at a certain hour in that day. It was a very busy day, I can assure you. By messenger. Well, when I was in the midst of this, I got an anguished phone call from Anne Bollinger that she had indicated her preference as Kappa Kappa Gamma, butane wasn't familiar with the names of the sororities. What she had really intended to put down was Delta Gamma. And would I do that? I said,well 1** going to have to consult with the dean of women first. And as I say, Anne assured me over the telephone. She just didn't realize which house was which. So I took it up with the dean of women, I've forgotten who she was then. And she said the Kappas have gotten everybody that they asked for. But the Delta Gammas haven't. So why not let the Delta(Gammas have her if it's agreeable with both.

So I sent out the invites that way. But it seems if Anne somewhere

along the line, not knowing exactly what her status was, because B. hadn't promised her anything, I was sympathetic and the matter would receive attention. I didn't give her any decision, but I let her know a decision had been made. And she got panicky thinking she was going nowhere. She was at one of the halls at the time. And she left the hall, I think to go down to the Student Union Building for her evening meal. And while she was there, somebody from the Kappa House saw her, noted that she was distraught and started asking questions and she broke down and (laughs) well they , this ended with a grand confrontation. The,it was in my office. The dean of women was there. The rushing chairman of Both the Kappa House and the Delta Gammas were there. And Anne was there. And I brought out the slip that she had said and she had listed the Kappa House first and she cried a little bit, but well now, after this she wasn't sure that the Kappas would want her.(laughs) They assured her that they did. And the dean of women satisfied that it had not been any clerical mistake on our part, it was simply that she got buck fever somewhere along the line and changed her mind. As I say,if it had been a clerical error, I'm sure that everybody would have seen fit to correct it. But changing your mind, that was not supposed to be in accordance with the rules of this particular game. And the Delta Gammas very courteously accepted the situation. That was the end of it except there were a few odd remarks later in the Argonaut. I think it was at the time of the annual Song and Stunt fest. That Anne had turned out and sang some kind of a song, 'My Heart Belongs to Delta Gamma' and the Argonaut was publishing this, but in parenthesis put,"Or is it Delta Gamma?"(laughs) You know of course, what happened to Anne since?

RF: No I don't.

WS: She became an opera singer. And where was she doing most of her singing?

MS: She sang a lot in Europe, but she did sing at the Met,Amade her debut

at the Met and ....

WS: She married a musician in Switzerland.

MS: He was an employee of Dow Chemical or something. He was a big chemical

company. He was Danish, but he was stationed there and she was doing a lot of concertising around there. She met him and they lived in Zurich, that's where she was living when she died.

WS: I think she was one of the stars at the Zurich opera. But she sang around

in Europe generally. And she came down with cancer. And she gave several concerts at Lewiston, her hometown. And this must have been about ten years ago. She came back to Lewiston to give her last concert. And she knew it was her last and everybody in the audience knew it. It was her farewell to her hometown. But the accounts of the concert were quite touching.

MS: She had two small children, I think they were four and six or something

like that. And she had had them over here. Her mother lived in Lewiston and it was a sad situation because Mrs. Bollinger had these two very talented children and Bob Bollinger sang with the Fred Waring organization not too long before that. And he also belonged to the National Guard. He was killed in a plane crash. And Mrs. Bollinger outlived them by years. Both of them. And I don't think that Anne was any more than forty when she died , if that. I think she was still in her thirties. But she went back and she died in Zurich.I guess that her husband still lives there. He seems to have been...

WS: I'm probably the only person who knows all about this little irregularity

about getting her into a sorority.(laugh)

RF: Did she finally get into Delta Gamma?

WS: Yes. The Kappa House.

MS: Certain houses, you know, almost pitch for certain things. And I think

the Kappas particularly have always gone for the singers. They just seem to recruit for that. And some of them, on the other hand, want grades. And some of them want, ones that were in plays and the ones that were, and that sort of thing, particular talents. I've known a number of WW them and it gets that of a reputation.

RF: Would town parents have allowed their daughters to join the sororities?

MS: Oh yes. And some did. But the way they started out, their rushing in those

days, they just had a^tea where anybody, girl who wanted to see what it was like, would go. And the majority I think, of the girls who lived in town didn't go even to this opening one, because you just assumed if anyone was interested in you, you'd be asked. Unless you were pretty well or unless you had an older sister or something like that. But as I say, unless you had a reason to believe that you would be asked, why you didn't even bother to go. It was a cutthroat organization in those days because they didn't have as many places, as many halls. Or rooms. And so space at those houses for both the girls and boys was at a premium Although I think probably as, I would guess, as a general rule, more of the boys joined fraternities than the girls sororities, because they didn't make any pretense of living up there. And there wasn't, I don't know, when I was in school, I always thought there wasn't, we always took the point of view there wasn't too much point in belonging unless you were going to live there. But I don't think,I'm sure that isn't true anymore. They take all they can get.

WS: For the standards of the time, membership in the group house was fairly

expensive. They were all built, financed by bonds sold locally. And the bonds usually, the bonds in the 1920's were issued at 7%. On these houses. And I would say that theytypical fraternity house, fraternity or sorority house bond issue would be around 50 thousand. Some of them would be a little bit more, some a little bit less. But that meant that to start with, 3500 dollars a year interest. Divide that by nine months that the school was in operation. And their house account got raised 400 dollars a month. Interest on their debt and that doesn't pay any of the principle. Now if you've got 50 men in a house, they're going to be paying eight dollars a month interest. And you better tack on to that another eight dollars, let us say, for service - the principle to start paying that back. And then you had all the maintainance and operation expenses. To that. So it affected what they had to pay, there's no question about it.

RF: Was the feeling that the elite lived in these living groups?

WS: I would say as a general rule, there were exceptions to all rules.

But as a general rule, there's no question about it, it carried prestige

MS: And they maintained the wonderful files, you know. Backltests and sort of

thing so you always got help with the grades. I mean they had, and they maintained study tables and there were others who had taken the course who would help you along with it if you were in difficulties. And maybe they could even swipe a current test or two to help out. And so you had, I'm sure that you had a leg up on all your courses, because they had all these back files of tests that had been given and quizes and whatnot and alwajrs somebody around who'd had, who could help you out with it.So I'm sure that it probably helped out on the scholarship and on the grades. And there was an emphasis on grades. At least there was in the girls houses. I suppose there was in the boys too. And a certain amount of rivalry and I think that they , I'm sure some of the girls who lived in town who maybe weren't particular social butterflies at all, but they were recruited because everybody knew they would get straight A's. And by and large, mainly what they were there for and they knew they weren't going to get any social butterflies. What they there to bring up the average. And if they, as I say, the ones who were children of the faculty, maybe knew they were going on and would finish at some other school or . they would just do their undergraduate work here. And so they wanted whatever connections they could get. And so they didn't always go but they always thought they would.

RF: Seems like the school has always been great for sororities and fraternities

That tradition has always been strong here.

WS: Well the, during the last 22 years I was active in the practice, I was

attorney for the university. And this is from '48 until 1970. And during that period, and I am sure this is true before too, it's something that the regents encouraged even when the current, elsewhere in the nation was running the other way. Because of the contribution they made towards student housing. Particularly right after the war. The, you had a rapid increase in university enrollment. Veterans, veterans, veterans. And literally no place to put them. And there was quite a bit of temporary housing, Quonset huts that was bought war surplus. The whole Rosauer property, that whole lot was full of these huts. And there's some married student housing on Line Street and Third. That was crammed full of these little, structures. Just absolutely full. And even so, but the a lot of the landlords in town were renting crackerboxes at exorbitant prices. And a great deal of these accomodations represented substandard living conditions. Well the obvious thing to do was to bujtld more dormitory space and more space was built. All the dormitories on Sixth street date from that period. But...

Segment Synopsis: Bulgin reported as slandering the university. University was
"sinkhole of iniquity"to Bulgin. Newspaper entries covering the
revivals. Bulgin accuses one of the Mann Brothers of being syphilitic.
The lawsuit is dismissed in Moscow and appealed to the state Supreme
Court.

Segment Synopsis: Flashlight Chorus. Mrs. Scnimke reads from her own recollections.
Bulgin took the trouble of having his people deputized as soon as
they came to town. Bulgin got into a fight with George Lamphere
which ended Bulgin's newspaper publicity. One woman said that Bulgin
left a trail of lawsuits all over the country.

Segment Synopsis: Method's continued. What became of Bulgin. He anticipated and
wanted trouble when he came to town. It got exciting when he took
off after local life in Moscow, i.e, the University or other
religious groups.

Segment Synopsis: Lamphere being a fighter gave courage to the college boys who
went after Bulgin. A little about the Robinson-Lamphere conflict.
Lamphere's personal tragedy and his own death. Pressure from
Moscow businessmen to consolidate the Star-Mirror and the News
Review. More about the tabernacle.

Segment Synopsis: Coming of the supermarkets first brought outside control. Moscow
businessmen relegated to the role of ordinary citizen after fifty
years of running the political scene. Kenworthy broke it wide open
for outside business when he opened the new Safeway. End of charqe
accounts and home delivery.

Segment Synopsis: Mr. Schmike came to Moscow in ,28 to attend law school. Location and
facilities of first law school. Professors from Harvard. First day
freshman law school speech. Change in enrollment after the war.
Some things in Idaho law that are unique unto themselves.

Segment Synopsis: Why the Schimkes didn't meet at school. Law school was a world to
itself. Houses and dorms built for out of town students. Fire department
verses Dean French for outside stairways on student housing. Recollections
of Dean French.

Segment Synopsis: It helped town girls to have good grades or parents' homes to entertain
in to get into sororites. Faculty members' children joined the
organization their parents belonged to. Desirability of sorority
living.

Segment Synopsis: Regents encouraged Greek housing by developing Nez Perce Drive and by
promising 99 year lease for nominal rent. The ability to borrow
on revenue bonds gave the university credit for buying power.
The university could get more housing per dollar through the
Greek organizations than by building a new dorm.