I'm not sure how to increase visibility of asexuality outside the LGBT realm. That is a serious issue though, because, for example, conservative religious folks might accept asexuality as valid much easier if it were not tied to the LGBT world they so love to hate.

I don't know, I am not "out" to very many people in real life because asexuality is still not well understood by the vast majority of people...several people have treated my orientation almost as a personal affront, claimed that I could not be asexual since I still have romantic interest in people, claimed that a "lack of experience" is to blame for my "problem," offered to give me that "experience" to try to awake my "normal" sexuality that I must be repressing (gross, especially considering who that sentiment was coming from!!!)...so I am very very careful who I tell.

Not everyone who identifies as asexual online is faking it. I find that many of the older members of AVEN especially seem to have enough self-knowledge to be sure of their orientation.

One thing I would love to see is a separate website for asexual friends/partners/allies...I have a hard time with AVEN sometimes when I see so many posts from sexual people complaining about their asexual partners not "fulfilling their needs"... AVEN should be a place to support asexuals, not make them feel alienated and broken... I also wonder why there's so much "sex ed" content on AVEN--why ask a forum about the details of sex when you could just go to Scarleteen or similar sites if you need to know the details of how sex works?

**All of the above is just my personal opinions and I am not looking to start a fight with anyone**

Vivaldi Ives wrote: **All of the above is just my personal opinions and I am not looking to start a fight with anyone**

Don't worry Viv.....we are not snowflakes here..which probably explains why so few avenites come over

The lgbt association is, I agree with you, an online numbers boost but a real world block for many in accepting what and who we are as all they see is lgbt

As to others accepting us, I was in the carribean one year for work and had some down time so went to the bar. A young couple were getting married and the mother of the bride was on her own..i.e. no partner. Later on in the evening a group of mixed people, wedding and non wedding were at the bar and I wished the young couple well and congrats for the wedding, we got talking and at some part drunk mum appeared

It got round as it does, you here with someone? I replied no as I was single (my work was none of their business) anyway we had some laughs and giggles and at some point the drunk mum said you got no one then? I explained no but also explained the difficulties in maintaining a relationship whilst being asexual. The wedded couple "got" Asexuality but the drunk mum could not get her head around it. After a few more wines for her she stood up and said infront of more people than I think she knew was there, said "your telling me if I stood infront of you f*cking naked you wouldn't want to f*ck me?"

I must admit her daughters face was one I wish I had taken a photo of as the shock simply was a picture in itself followed by a loud "MUM!!!!!"I explained whilst I find you attractive mam, I do not find anyone sexually attractive so whilst the offer is very flattering, my answer would be no.

The next morning sore of head I saw the lady at breakfast, I'm not sure which made her more embarrassed, her being drunk and loud or sexually less than discreet.

The long story is to highlight..we can remove the lgbt from our arena, we can remove sexuals from our arena but at some point we will still have some question what and who we are and on that point I've always said ....we should not expect others to believe us but simply lay our cards on the table, explain in as simple and least confusing way and hope more get it than do not.

Whether they accept it or not should not worry us, it is us and only us that needs to believe

as to the "onlines " faking it..there are probably more than we care to admit but the most incorrect are sexuals desperate to belong to something rare so do what they do just to feel special. In Aven right now, I would say real asexuals are about 0.1% of the forum.

The sex ed thing and lots of sex is just the anti part really....if you think of an atheist website, their biggest topics will be ....religion..but I also suspect sex is such a heavy subject base due to the average age of avens main users, most are virgins or of an age that experience would not be there.

I favour keeping the sexual allies and partner section as I remember just how many asexual/sexual relationships there are...in fact I think asexuals who have relationships tend to be with sexuals. Whilst I do get fed up of some claiming to be asexuals then claiming that is why they do not have sex with their sexual partners (hogwash), it has proved an invaluable section particularly with sexual partners .

It is no surprise I would like to see the entire "identities section" shut down..as to too much sex talk, I have to say this is the admods fault in a way. They have too much of their volunteer time taken up reading every post in their forum, personally I'd like to see more member pier inputs with less snowflakery and then the mods could police visibly but also move a lot of the threads that wander away from their intended section.

If we are to move forward then we need to stop doing the usual minority moaning of demanding we be treated as equally as the majority, understand we will be valued more by honesty and promote our group as genuine people who apart from one single difference, are not different at all.

Be interesting to see what others say if they haven't fallen asleep reading this post

Well, Pif, as you probably already know, I don't agree with your assumption about the fragility of the public's understanding of asexuality, but I particularly disagree with your idea that the "Identities" section at AVEN should be shut down. I think it's important, for a lot of reasons, and . . .

And . . . I had a really great and involved series of thoughts and observations which I wanted to write down, but they went away before I could formulate a coherent post.

Absolutely bring it, it would be a boring world if my correct opinion was the only one

My reasoning for the suggestion the identities section should be removed entirely is based on two feelings, (1) it is the biggest sectional cause for confusion about what an asexual is within aven and (2) it is the biggest sectional reason why aven is no longer an asexual forum but instead is now a forum for sexual gender identity and NOT asexuality.

as to the fragility of the publics understanding of asexuality....based on two things, I have never heard anyone go to a pride march and have anyone say to them, "so your straight then" and......based on the last several years of using and reading asexual forums where so many declare difficulty in explaining asexuality without others asking about it meaning they are gay, they are hiding they are gay, they are gay and are refusing to admit or being afraid to declare their asexuality because they fear being called gay and lastly, those that say they are gay because it is easier to say that than explain asexuality.

To me the situation is that, unlike any other orientation, a loss of sexual desire can have other causes. A simple lack of attraction can be caused by hormones, fear, trauma, mental conditions and many others. It's why I was a long time accepting asexuality, because I had to exclude pre-pubertal onset hypogonadism, fear following previous rejection, featuring on the ASD, possible denial of a different orientation, gender dysphoria and other reasons. Ultimately after discounting every other explanation, I came to the conclusion that I have never seen another person and thought " I want to have sex with them".

That is something that I have been saying for a long time, Skycaptain.

I maintain that a person who is asexual for a measurable reason, whether it's physical or mental, is still 100% "true" asexual.And here is where I disagree with PiF (and some others): I also maintain that a person who becomes asexual for some sort of measurable reason can be 100% true asexual.

An asexual does not experience sexual attraction, and that is the sum total of the definition. Nowhere is it stated that a person has to be born that way and that, aside from being asexual, they should have no other sexual or gender-related idiosyncrasies.

The last two days have been horrendous and it might continue right on through the weekend, but I haven't forgotten my post about asexuality and gender identity. I'm taking my time because I intend to do some research on the side before I pull it all together.

All views are welcome no matter what they are, I think that is why we get so few avenites over, they are mostly sheep who cannot operate without a report button and snowflakery is not standard practice here

I know we disagree on this born this way and created by Nancy but i'll always listen to another persons view even if I disagree with it

I feel and correct me if I am wrong, your direction is more about those who display asexual mannerisms/preferences due to a condition or chain of events. Say for example someone has had a life long depression, social anxiety and social apathy. As direct causes of their illness's, they are unlikely to seek or be with a partner and almost never feel stimulated in a sexual way towards another, most of the time they do not feel good about themselves let alone wanting to feel sexually attracted to another..this would be one of the causes of their mental illness's

Your direction would suggest this person is then asexual...my direction would suggest this person is not asexual but through some of life's challenges/battles... they display consequences that appear similar to asexuality but they are not asexual.

Trans is another good example, I personally do not believe most of those in the trans arena who claim asexuality are asexual. Trans is a very special situation with a whole lot of challenges to face of which I doubt most of us could deal with. I believe that given they are not sure who and what they are, how society views them and is hostile towards them, I do feel many just do not bother with others ..or, such is the challenge they face that involving another within that also causes relationship/sexual relations issues as their own path is difficult already..trans in itself would not be asexuality

Our millenial generation...if ever there was a generation of memememe this one is it....I admire their honesty in that most do not want kids, they are selfish and like the way their life is and have a total apathy towards relationships and sex. Some watch big bang so I will relate in a way that might make sense...Leslie winkle, her having sex with leonard. He saw it as the start of a relationship, she saw it as a bioligical itch that needed scratching and said to him afterwards, "I don't know about you but I'm good till christmas", refering to the next time she might want sex and this is how most people sex sex/relationships within the millenial generation...this apathy towards relationships and sex is not asexuality

Born this way..there is no doubt, there are no false claims, there is no missunderstanding. It is clear, concise and easy to define.

In sky's case I do not feel they would have "become" asexual but more like many of us, didn't know what the term for what we are was and after time found the term....apologies if I have got this wrong Skye

At the heart of the difference between born this way and became this way.........if it is not specific to asexuality then it is not asexuality.

The only thing and it is where I have consistently said...the honesty of the individual. an example...are you an asexual with depression or someone with depression with asexual consequences?

And until we decide to go with one definition first ...even if some declare it as an umbrellea term (which I personally disagree with)...then where asexuality goes is ....pretty much nowhere

I think asexuality is destined to be viewed as little more than an online community of teenagers and I cannot see anything or anyone offering anything else?