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Why waste your time argueing with the giants fans anymore? They have proved over and over, that they are the biggest homers on this site. Eli is not that bad, but he sure hasn't done anything impressive yet. If you rip on Eli, then your a bad person. If you say Ben has done more, then they say it is a team effort. What it boils down to for giants fans is this. Eli does evrything for the Giants, and there is no team involved, Ben can't do anything, and it is all the rest of the team. Go figure, win a superbowl and have 3 bad games and your no good. Typical giants fans, cry about how everybody is against poor little Eli.

Um.

Proved over and over we are the biggest homers, how long have you been here? Oh wait, you're likely someone that got banned and came back under a new name. (SeanTaylor21 possibly)

Eli has not done anything impressive yet? hahahaha. You either don't watch football or you are a hater. Probably both. Tell Eagles fans and Broncos fans that Eli has not done anything yet. Ask Joe Gibbs if he thinks Eli is impressive. What a joke.

I guess if you consider not getting it done in post season a good job, enjoy your qb. Just cause a guy has 3 bad games doesn't make me turn my back or even my opinion on how good a qb is.

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So your one of those "W-L directly relates to QB performace," what a waste of time to debate with you.

Isn't that how falcon fans base that so called qb in atlanta on.

Some do, but it's an ignorant reasoning point. Michael Vick had four games of 90+ "passer rating," last year, of which resulted in losses. So by your logic, he should be blamed for piss-poor performances by his defense.

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Why waste your time argueing with the giants fans anymore? They have proved over and over, that they are the biggest homers on this site. Eli is not that bad, but he sure hasn't done anything impressive yet. If you rip on Eli, then your a bad person. If you say Ben has done more, then they say it is a team effort. What it boils down to for giants fans is this. Eli does evrything for the Giants, and there is no team involved, Ben can't do anything, and it is all the rest of the team. Go figure, win a superbowl and have 3 bad games and your no good. Typical giants fans, cry about how everybody is against poor little Eli.

Um.

Proved over and over we are the biggest homers, how long have you been here? Oh wait, you're likely someone that got banned and came back under a new name. (SeanTaylor21 possibly)

Eli has not done anything impressive yet? hahahaha. You either don't watch football or you are a hater. Probably both. Tell Eagles fans and Broncos fans that Eli has not done anything yet. Ask Joe Gibbs if he thinks Eli is impressive. What a joke.

I guess if you consider not getting it done in post season a good job, enjoy your qb. Just cause a guy has 3 bad games doesn't make me turn my back or even my opinion on how good a qb is.

Do you realize that you totally just contradicted yourself?!?!

You look down on Eli for having ONE horrid game against a top notch defense against the Panthers. Yet you tell me that a QB having 3 bad games can't alter your view?

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Why waste your time argueing with the giants fans anymore? They have proved over and over, that they are the biggest homers on this site. Eli is not that bad, but he sure hasn't done anything impressive yet. If you rip on Eli, then your a bad person. If you say Ben has done more, then they say it is a team effort. What it boils down to for giants fans is this. Eli does evrything for the Giants, and there is no team involved, Ben can't do anything, and it is all the rest of the team. Go figure, win a superbowl and have 3 bad games and your no good. Typical giants fans, cry about how everybody is against poor little Eli.

Um.

Proved over and over we are the biggest homers, how long have you been here? Oh wait, you're likely someone that got banned and came back under a new name. (SeanTaylor21 possibly)

Eli has not done anything impressive yet? hahahaha. You either don't watch football or you are a hater. Probably both. Tell Eagles fans and Broncos fans that Eli has not done anything yet. Ask Joe Gibbs if he thinks Eli is impressive. What a joke.

I guess if you consider not getting it done in post season a good job, enjoy your qb. Just cause a guy has 3 bad games doesn't make me turn my back or even my opinion on how good a qb is.

Do you realize that you totally just contradicted yourself?!?!

You look down on Eli for having ONE horrid game against a top notch defense against the Panthers. Yet you tell me that a QB having 3 bad games can't alter your view?

You're a joke.

I never said Eli was horrible. Do you know how to read? I just said he isn't that bad, but you guys are the ones saying Ben sucks. Your guy has done nothing. He also cannot be put in the same category as Ben. Ben is a superbowl winning qb, Eli is not. You have no argument. You giants fans are just happy he is doing bad, so the little cry baby Eli doesn't look so bad. Like I said before, I voted for Rivers, Not Ben. It's just funny how giants fans can't take anything said about eli. I also would take Rex Grossman over eli any day also.

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Worst "winning" Super Bowl performance of all time. Snortie, you are not going to be able to get away with calling a victory on a debate based of erroneous claims that Roethlisberger played well, at least enough to "lead" his team in aformentioned game.

Now I cannot imagine Ben being his bad the rest of his career, but his play had lend credence to the arguments that have been put against him. To give him credit, instead of the Steelers credit for last year's success is absurd.

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Worst "winning" Super Bowl performance of all time. Snortie, you are not going to be able to get away with calling a victory on a debate based of erroneous claims that Roethlisberger played well in aformentioned game.

All I said is he is a superbowl winning qb. I didn't say he won the superbowl. He led his team all through the playoffs last year, and his stats can't be denied. John Elway was horrible in superbowls, yet I wouldn't say he sucked. He also had some awful years in Denver, still he is in the hall of fame, and I would say most everyone on this site would say he is in the to 15 qb's of all time.

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So your saying if Eli Manning was on the Steelers they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl? Because last time I checked, Eli hasn't had a top-5 rushing attack or defense in his time in NY.

I never said that. I don't believe Eli could have had bens success through the playoffs like last year, Like I said 1 bad game doesn't mean he didn't lead his team to the superbow. It's kinda like Plummer last year, if he doesn't have that bad game against the Steelers, the broncos could have been in the superbowl. Last time I checked, Eli's runningback, tiki Barber is better then anything the syeelers have had the last few years.

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So your saying if Eli Manning was on the Steelers they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl? Because last time I checked, Eli hasn't had a top-5 rushing attack or defense in his time in NY.

If you watched how Eli played against Carolina last year, I don't see how you can logically assume that he could've won it last year.

Despite his horrible super bowl performance, Ben actually played quite well in the post season.

So youre comparing his first playoff start to Ben's 3rd and 4th and 5th? How is that fair? Remember how Ben did in his first playoff start? Just as bad as Manning. AND, he went up against a worse defensive than Manning. With a better oline and running attack. So thats a frequently used argument, however it is skewing the facts.

I can easily bring up Manning's numbers when he throws over 30 times compared to Ben if I wanted to.

The truth in this argument is, Ben isn't horrible, he's not great. He's somewhere in the middle. All this talk of Ben being a top 10 qb in the league prior to this season was inaccurate. Before he can get in that category, he needs to show the rest of the world that he can look off a safety...something he has yet to do in his career. I wonder how a qb who doesn't look off safeties wins the SB? Maybe the talent around him had something to do with it? Hmm...

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Snortie....I did the searching for you. Please read my bolded statement before you make falase assumptions.

Originally posted by Number 10

If anything, Ben recieved too much love on this site. I don't see how anyone can put in the claim that he gets bashed too easily. I'll try to sum up my thoughts briefly...

I admire Ben more than you believe, and as of right now I have him ranked as my #10 QB in the league right behind Eli. Prior to the 2004 draft, I was calling for Ben so that we could get our franchise guy and keep all of our picks, which we obviously could have used. But after watching almost every single one of both their games in the NFL, I am feeling much more secure with Eli at the helm than I would be with Ben calling the shots.

Physically, there is not too much of a difference. They both have similar arm strength in terms of short, intermediate routes and deep balls. If you want to give the edge to Ben there, be my guest, I won't fight it too hard because the difference, if any, is minimal. Ben is also faster and more effective outside of the pocket, a dimension I sometimes wish Eli had. So if you want to compare the two from a physical standpoint, I have to give a slight edge to Ben.

But where Eli really creates seperation in this debate is in the intangibles area. He has proved time after time that he can take the game into his own hands when it matters most and lead his team to victory. He never lets pressure get to his head, even though he is playing in arguably the most difficult market in the football world. His comeback victories and late game heroics are not luck because he continues to do the same thing time and time again. He also has a little "Peyton" in him in the sense that he studies to no end during the season and during the offseason. I have a buddy that works at the Stadium all year for practices and workouts and he said Eli was there more often than any of the coaches, including Coughlin. He worked his butt off in the film room and the weight room and I can really tell a huge difference in his play to this point. He clearly was not in the best physical shape last year and was not ready to throw the ball 500+ times, hence why he fell apart late in the year. Eli has not even come close to reaching his full potential because his work ethic parallels Peyton's, and sit there and think about how much Peyton has progressed since his second season as a starter.

Yes, I realize Ben has a ring, yada yada yada. I already stated that it does not take a special QB to win a Super Bowl to say the least. To say that the Steelers had a simple offense that relied on the running game and strong defensive play would be an understatement. It seems now that the running game is being contained, Ben is not even sniffing the success he had the past couple years. I know he will improve over the course of the season, but I don't see him maintaining the level of play his numbers indicated his first two years. His offensive line has been poor, but the Giants line was terrible against the Eagles and what did Eli do? He is able to make adjustments, something Ben still needs to prove. The running game is not there for the Steelers. Well, the running game has been up and down for the Giants, yet Eli has been playing consistently well. The WRs and TE play for the Steelers has been poor. Well, Plaxico Burress is dropping balls every week, Sinorice Moss can't get on the field, Tim Carter has had a few big drops and Shockey is very, VERY banged up. All I heard from the Steelers fans throughout the offseason was how underrated Hines Ward is and how Heath Miller is a legit playmaker. Come on now, you can't have it both ways.

That was a little bit longer than I was intending, but pick it apart if you wish.

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So your saying if Eli Manning was on the Steelers they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl? Because last time I checked, Eli hasn't had a top-5 rushing attack or defense in his time in NY.

Huh? Are you trying to argue that the Giants don't have a very good run game? No one would take Bettis and Parker over Barber. You are technically correct, the Giants had the #6 rushing offense last year, while the Steelers were the #5 running team.But the Giants rushing attack was incredibly more efficient than the Steelers last year, and only had 15 less rushing yards than the Steelers. Arguing that Eli hasn't had a run game is just wrong.