Well, technically you could pick up Elemental Precision. It'll bring you to the hit cap so as long as you have 1742 spirit on your gear! Of course it also causes you to lose out on some other valuable talents, but that's just details!

Thanks for all the guidance, guys. Good info. I was tempted to post his armory as well as mine (I know I have a few warts myself, btw...but I like to think I have MOST of the theory right), but it just didn't seem thread/forum appropriate.

Even without that, you all rose to the challenge. THIS is why I visit MTadin...

thatguy wrote:I'm not playing devil's advocate but hit cap is mildly important (especially on 10s) on interrupt fights like Maloriak/Tron Council. However, every good tank has different sets that they swap out to fix this issue. If he's worried about threat, expertise is still the best stat for that.

I agree though, gearing for hit/expertise is silly verging on stupid when fights don't call for it. I have two tanks in our guild that ALWAYS want to be hit capped regardless of the fight. I argue with them weekly about gearing for hit. I'm just going to have to chalk it up to them being stubborn and not doing their research. It drivess me bonkers though. I notice a huge difference in healing one of our tanks who is more CTC focused (mastery/parry/dodge/etc) versus those that stack their hit.

If any tank is mildly geared and is having threat issues after the first 4 GCDs, then they're just plain doing it wrong.

On a completely unrelated note, I also get blamed when my Wind Shear misses while I'm healing. (Riggghhhtttt, cause healers should stack hit.)

You are absolutely correct that Hit rating still has a value in specific scenarios where the raid's strategy relies on the tank for interrupting key boss abilities. I could see having extra pieces that you keep tucked away, and bring out only for those scenarios. As a generalized gearing strategy, Hit is possibly the worst stat to be reforging into as a Warrior. As you pointed out Expertise would be a stronger overall threat boost.

I don't know that the set Dane is discussing is his generalized tanking set. It could be Dane popped into armory and caught him in his lolheroics gear, or in his designated interrupter set. I'm assuming not.

Well, technically you could pick up Elemental Precision. It'll bring you to the hit cap so as long as you have 1742 spirit on your gear! Of course it also causes you to lose out on some other valuable talents, but that's just details!

Technically yes, but you might as well just put away your heal set if you're giving up Imbued Weapons, Ghost Wolf and Improved Shields.

Hokahey wrote:I don't know that the set Dane is discussing is his generalized tanking set. It could be Dane popped into armory and caught him in his lolheroics gear, or in his designated interrupter set. I'm assuming not.

Very true, although I'd bet a nickel that it was his raid set.

I'm probably in the minority on this but I wear my very best gear even for heroics (although my gear still sucks :P). It makes it easier on the healer and allows for a little wiggle room when stuff inevitably hits the fan. My dps is probably a little lower but I'm able to pull more quickly which I think everyone enjoys.

On the even plusser side, he doesn't even have that argument. *I* tank the interrupt fights...because I an get em all. I need to do my Warrior research, but he doesn't think he has enough for Arcanotron, Maloriak, Halfus (with the...storm? Drake,) and just last night, he got moved off of Feludius because of interupts.

I tried bringing it up, but my RL said "He's fine...he's a throughput tank."

I had never heard of such a thing, of ourse, so I was enlightened to learn that it means he gears for threat...which I promptly said shouln't be an issue after the first 30 seconds...which my co-tank agreed with.

I'm going to have to have a chat with my RL...it's good to be GM sometimes, and be able to throw your weight around.

Hokahey wrote:I don't know that the set Dane is discussing is his generalized tanking set. It could be Dane popped into armory and caught him in his lolheroics gear, or in his designated interrupter set. I'm assuming not.

Very true, although I'd bet a nickel that it was his raid set.

I'm probably in the minority on this but I wear my very best gear even for heroics (although my gear still sucks ). It makes it easier on the healer and allows for a little wiggle room when stuff inevitably hits the fan. My dps is probably a little lower but I'm able to pull more quickly which I think everyone enjoys.

BTW, you win a nickle. He doesn't maintain multiple tank sets...he's rocking dual stam trinkets cause they're the highest ilevel he's got. I was extolling the BH repic trinkets, and he was saying he'd get one as soon as he got to exalted.

Hokahey wrote:I don't know that the set Dane is discussing is his generalized tanking set. It could be Dane popped into armory and caught him in his lolheroics gear, or in his designated interrupter set. I'm assuming not.

Very true, although I'd bet a nickel that it was his raid set.

I'm probably in the minority on this but I wear my very best gear even for heroics (although my gear still sucks ). It makes it easier on the healer and allows for a little wiggle room when stuff inevitably hits the fan. My dps is probably a little lower but I'm able to pull more quickly which I think everyone enjoys.

As do I, and I've yet to experience what I'd consider "threat problems" on my Warrior in Heroics. I've got ~2.3% and 2 Expertise in my tanking set, and provided I get to attack something before the group does, it pretty much stays on me. Some pulls are problematic due to how they're set up (some Deadmines trash, that first pull in VP, etc.). In general, excluding pulls with 2 healers or with combos of mobs that do lots of AoE, its pretty much "mark skull, glance at healer's mana, charge" or the same process, with "shoot/Heroic Throw, run away" thrown in if I want to pull the group back.

Warrior tanking is absurdly easy now.

My Warrior's problem is the opposite of Dane's co-tank. I've got (H)Throngus' Finger, and the repic from TB dailies, but no Stam trinkets. Even then, I've got 145k hp, ~12% Dodge, ~13% Parry, and ~50% Block, unbuffed. I haven't been as devoted to gearing him as I should be if I wanted to be serious about tanking, or about taking regular cracks at H Stonecore for Leaden Despair, or H VP for the tanking gun, but those would be the last upgrades before there was nothing left but Valor Points for upgrades. He's an alt, and I don't have the time to get him into heroics every day along with my Druid, much less raid.

Dane wrote:

fuzzygeek wrote:On the plus side, interrupts won't miss in 4.1.

On the even plusser side, he doesn't even have that argument. *I* tank the interrupt fights...because I an get em all. I need to do my Warrior research, but he doesn't think he has enough for Arcanotron, Maloriak, Halfus (with the...storm? Drake,) and just last night, he got moved off of Feludius because of interupts.

I tried bringing it up, but my RL said "He's fine...he's a throughput tank."

I had never heard of such a thing, of ourse, so I was enlightened to learn that it means he gears for threat...which I promptly said shouln't be an issue after the first 30 seconds...which my co-tank agreed with.

I'm going to have to have a chat with my RL...it's good to be GM sometimes, and be able to throw your weight around.

"Throughput tank"? Is the RL a healer? Just kidding, just seems like a very "healer-ish" thing to say.

As a side note, I really do wonder how Warriors and Paladins fare against eachother in terms of threat. Clearly both are more than adequate, but even the problems some have expressed on this site with threat in Heroics hasn't really existed for me while I'm tanking on my Warrior. Its certainly *possible* I am simply that awesome at smashing buttons like a monkey on a drunken rampage, but I'm not inclined to believe that.

In every dungeon, the first pull is always the most difficult for me. I think it's a combination of being low on rage and dpser's trinkets going off. Once I get past the first pull, the rage that I have left over from fights makes each other pull trivial. I know my healers are wondering "What the hell is going on with this tank?" and then it all gets better.

In my stupid moment of the night, I tanked BRC last night. The last boss drops the shoulders (Raz's Pauldrons I think). It was an upgrade over what I have. I hit need as I was the only plate wearer, say my thanks to the group, and get all excited. I check my bags and the shoulders aren't there. I left before the group finished their rolls. It was a LFD dungeon so I couldn't get back in time. I feel like such a moron. I opened a ticket in hopes that a GM would pity me but I'm not holding my breath.

Dane wrote:On the even plusser side, he doesn't even have that argument. *I* tank the interrupt fights...because I an get em all. I need to do my Warrior research, but he doesn't think he has enough for Arcanotron, Maloriak, Halfus (with the...storm? Drake,) and just last night, he got moved off of Feludius because of interupts.

Warrior have a 12 second interrupt all other tanking classes have 10 second ones and most abilities are on a roughly 10 second cycle.

We live in a society where people born on third base constantly try to steal second, yet we expect people born with two strikes against them to hit a homerun on the first pitch.

Hokahey wrote:As a side note, I really do wonder how Warriors and Paladins fare against eachother in terms of threat. Clearly both are more than adequate, but even the problems some have expressed on this site with threat in Heroics hasn't really existed for me while I'm tanking on my Warrior. Its certainly *possible* I am simply that awesome at smashing buttons like a monkey on a drunken rampage, but I'm not inclined to believe that.

Sweet... I was wanting a new addition to my sig... thanks for providing .

thatguy wrote:In every dungeon, the first pull is always the most difficult for me. I think it's a combination of being low on rage and dpser's trinkets going off. Once I get past the first pull, the rage that I have left over from fights makes each other pull trivial. I know my healers are wondering "What the hell is going on with this tank?" and then it all gets better.

In my stupid moment of the night, I tanked BRC last night. The last boss drops the shoulders (Raz's Pauldrons I think). It was an upgrade over what I have. I hit need as I was the only plate wearer, say my thanks to the group, and get all excited. I check my bags and the shoulders aren't there. I left before the group finished their rolls. It was a LFD dungeon so I couldn't get back in time. I feel like such a moron. I opened a ticket in hopes that a GM would pity me but I'm not holding my breath.

On at least 5 instances I have done this on my lowby warrior. Everytime with a GM ticket I have gotten the item in the mail the next day. Good luck!

gag order is replacing shield bash with pummel, and pummel is usable in all stances

iow, warriors now have one interupt to silence them all (sorry couldnt resist)

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPSAmirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego. Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.

So all this talk about mastery being awesome, here's a question: What JC'ing gems should I get? I have Fractured and Solid cuts both, and right now I'm rockin 1 fractured and 2 solids. The other slots have Puissant if blue/yellow and Defenders if red.

I've been gemming/enchanting exactly like my paladin but I haven't been sure about reforging since an EJ post led me to believe that the different tanking stats gain priority over each other depending on how much of each you have. So I've just been reforging threat into mastery and leaving avoidance as is, since I wasn't sure what to do with it.

what i have been doing is gemming like i would my pally, pussiants mostly

as far as avoidence, due to the Hold the Line talent, parry does take slight precedence over dodgeiow if you have dodge/parry, but no mastery, reforge dodge to mastery

looking at your armory (need new link btw, that one is to the old armory)i would do the following:chest - reforge dodge to masteryweapon + shield - switch reforging to parrylegs - reforge hit -mastery

and def get cracking on your therazane and ER repsi think gemming looks pretty good

edit: fixt link

Brekkie:Tanks are like shitty DPS. And healers are like REALLY distracted DPSAmirya:Why yes, your penis is longer than his because you hit 30k dps in the first 10 seconds. But guess what? That raid boss has a dick bigger than your ego. Flex:I don't make mistakes. I execute carefully planned strategic group wipes.Levie:(in /g) It's weird, I have a collar and I dont know where I got it from, Worgen are kinky!Levie:Drunk Lev goes and does what he pleases just to annoy sober Lev.Sagara:You see, you need to *spread* the bun before you insert the hot dog.