Bran's Conquest - Ups and Downs

I was originally just going to talk about my most recent ****py Conquest match, and was looking for the thread where we've been posting bad matches, but couldn't find it. Then I thought about the bigger picture and wanted to talk more about Conquest in general. TL;DR warning.

Conquest Vs. Other Modes

My disgusting pie chart of modes played

So, historically, as those that have known me a long time know, I was originally an Assault main.

For the first year or so of my playing experience (Season 1), I strictly played Assault outside of the random Joust match with my nephew. The (arguably) great thing about that is it made me really think and learn about building when considering comps, and it triggered the start of my guide creation career and participation on SMITEFire.

After that first year, I switched over (or rather expanded my horizons) with the Arena mode. You'd think it would have been the other way around, but whatever.

Eventually, I learned to branch out, and I now consider myself generally comfortable with all modes.

I've always had high-level interest in Conquest, due to it being the defining game mode and the most complex of them. That interested culminated in The Overarching Conquest Guide, which was a pain to create, but also very fun. I got to talk more in depth with SF regulars at the time to help compile the various information for the different roles.

Since I branched out at that time (2016), I've been open to playing any mode, but more than anything else, I've always considered this a social game, and enjoy playing with friends immensely more than solo-queuing. And most of the people I've played with the past few years have preferred modes other than Conquest. So that's mostly what I've continued to play. I do find it interesting that Conquest is my 3rd most-played mode, as I would have expected it to be Joust if I were to not consult SmiteGuru.

But just in the past few weeks, I've been making a push to play more Conquest, and a lot of the people I normally play with have gone along with me (outside of DV-8, who is 100% a Conquest main). I get the most resistance from Gulf, who sometimes seems like he's going to have an aneurism in the middle of a match. Boogie has been embracing it, playing Solo Jorm, Jungle Fen, and Support Jorm/***bha.

7 of my last 10, and 14 of my last 20, have been Conquest games, and I've (mostly) been enjoying it immensely.

Ups & Downs

So we can basically consider these S6 Conquest games as stretching old muscles that have mostly been unused.

The vast majority of these games have been as Carry, with a couple matches in Solo and Support. Carry and Support are my most comfortable roles, with Solo being next, perhaps. I'd be comfortable enough in Mid as well, with Jungle pulling up a distant last place.

I've had some very up-and-down games (and this applies in general...had a horrific losing streak recently and just playing like I've been tilted). I've found, more often, when I'm playing with just one other person, or the group doesn't include people like Taco or Salad, the competition level in general is noticeably lower (and my personal success greater).

Sample 1. Jing Wei ADC. 3/9/15, 2nd lowest damage on my team. Was getting completely owned by the Chronos, but also the Thanatos. Also, this was my one and only experience playing on Brazilian servers, where I thought my lag would be workable. It wasn't. 220 ping, but the lag felt like 1 second. So maybe I get a bit of a bye here, but...not really. I was getting owned.

Sample 2. Hachiman ADC. 4/6/1. Got owned by a Baron Samedi / Chiron duo lane, but much more the Baron than the Chiron, who I could solo easily and did so on a couple occasions, but the Thanatos would interrupt that **** when he could. Wards weren't helping. Also, Taco was playing here, which felt like it skewed the matchmaking. Also, I know, the comps...whatever, it worked for them. That Chiron build though XD

Sample 4. Ares Support. 0/5/0. Woof, this was really bad play by me. Almost had a first kill, but got overzealous with the Chernobog / Thanatos duo, and died first instead. Rest of the game I was playing not like I preach, and kept getting completely shut down by the Thanatos. This was definitely my fault.

My Most Recent Match, A Yoink, and a Win Despite Myself

Anyway, that brings me to the last game I played last night, where I teamed up with Sheridan and her friend GreenGiller. Back to ADC again. Our mid chose Neith, so I saw it as an opportunity to get re-familiarized with my old pal Freya.

Well, for most of the game, things weren't going well. Green was my support, and while we worked well together in a couple of previous Joust matches, it wasn't happening here. We got caught a couple of times by the enemy Jungler, but overall, I'd say he was being too aggressive. I'm not trying to lay the whole blame on him, mind, but I definitely got caught a couple of times trying to save him, which also got me killed.

In any case, we lost our lane hard and early. It started having a major effect on our teammates...while Sheridan in the Solo lane was going, "the solo lane feels like its own match." She was lonely, as she and her lane opponent Odin were mostly left alone the entire match in a major stalemate, and the enemy Jungler ( Mercury) didn't ever venture over.

At one point, Green called for a surrender, but amazingly, the rest of our team shut that down. Guess we were playing it to the end. I will also say, teammates were surprisingly friendly and understanding. I'd apologized for my level of play at one point, and they said "no problem!" Super cool, teammates.

Anyway, after a lost teamfight away from me farming in the duo lane, the enemy team (all 5 still alive) were going for the Fire Giant. Green and I were still alive. He sat a bit behind the FG area, and I was a bit in front. As it neared death, Green and I both ulted, and I think my 3rd ult blast secured the steal. My team went wild. And Green and I both made it back alive.

Had another death after that, but then we made a push a few minutes later, won our final teamfight (I think I got 3 kills in that one), and got the win. And I somehow barely edged everyone out for top match damage. I don't know how that happened due to my level of play (I know, it's Freya, but still). Had to call it a night after that one.

Anyway...super excited to be playing Conquest a lot, and looking forward to improving, especially in my early laning phase, which is a different game compared to any non-Conquest mode.

So I also talked about this in the Discord channel, but this is an example. Taco again on my team (not discounting others like DV-8 or Juan, the blank one, possibly skewing the matchmaking to the more difficult side). I ended up being Mid Isis, facing Hades. Every way I try to think it, I'm having difficulties figuring out how I could have won the early laning phase. But also, I fed hard and made a variety of early misplays. I was rendered essentially ineffective the entire match. So run through this with me.

Mistake #1: got the obvious level 1 ability Wing Gust. Started with some early basics on the wave, then looked to Gust to provide some quicker clear and some poke on the Hades. It was at this point that he hit me with his ability, assume it was Devour Souls but don't remember. So obviously took some damage there. Used a potion, but my poke made me take some leftover minion damage, and I wasn't able to clear at that point...he ended up hitting level 2 before me, and right as he hit it, he got Death From Below, went in on me, and killed me with Devour Souls.

Mistake #2: After that, struggled just to get level 2, and then level 3. I dunno, this could be mistake #3, but I'm just pointing this one out. Basically ventured out from the safety of my tower, continued to take some damage from the Hades initiating with Death From Below. Was far enough out that after a Ne Zha tether, I could get far enough under my tower before another death.

Mistake #3: At the point where I then had enough gold to start investing in shoes, I did a completely brainless thing, and got Restored Artifact (T2 Chronos). Realized right after I purchased, but would have had to sell at that point and lose money, so I just kept it as is. I did in fact finish Shoes of the Magi before completing Chronos, but that was a major mobility delay.

Mistake #4 (maybe?): At level 4 (hooray, Hades was already 5 or 6 at this point so...), I finally got Dispel Magic. Part of me was thinking I should have gotten it at level 3...but not really sure what that would have really done for me. More on that below.

It didn't really sink in how far I was until my...4th death? I was having major problems judging Hades' distance from Death, was getting caught in his ult, getting my abilities shut down, etc. At that point, I started slowly decreasing my deaths by actually staying under tower and farming as safely as possible, but then it started having a negative effect on our jungler, as Hades was pretty fed. And it's here where I want to talk about countering Hades as Isis.

Now, as for countering Hades...how do you do it as Isis? Let's talk about some examples of my experience:

Safe Poke: Okay, if I wanted extremely safe poke, I could toss a Spirit Ball. Long range, it's super easy to dodge, though. And if for whatever reason he wouldn't be able to get out of the way, he could just use Death From Below to dodge it, AND hit the minion wave at the same time.

Clearing Wave: For this, Isis normally needs to use Wing Gust...but to hit the minions, you mostly have to be in range, and if you want to hit ALL of the minions, you're pushed right up on them. That obviously puts you in danger of Hades 1-3 combo, which is a no-no unless you're under tower, at which point your tower is hitting minions and you're getting less farm...and with a Hades that's ahead, he might dive me unless I'm way under tower.

Initiating with Death From Below: Okay, so here's where I wonder how to really counter him.

Option 1: Wing Gust: as I see him initiate, immediately cast Gust and backpedal to gain distance. But if he's calculated well when he does decide to initiate, he's probably hitting me anyway, and if he's quick with the combo, he can hit me with a Shroud of Darkness to interrupt the cast, or Devour Souls for more damage.

Option 2: Spirit Ball: as I see him initiate, cast and detonate it to get the stun. Then immediately cast Wing Gust to try to gain distance. This was my attempt more than once. One minor problem is that at close range, the ball doesn't do much damage. It also didn't give me enough time to create enough distance, and he'd silence my Gust, then devour and get more damage.

Option 3: Dispel Magic: cast as he pops up. Then Ball for the stun, then Gust to create distance. This might have sort of worked once or twice, but from recollection, still didn't really give me enough time to gain distance before getting further damaged.

And yes, when possible, I was using my ult.

In the end, it felt like Hades hard-countered me...but at the same time, I think a lot of it (most of it?) was just misjudging distance and feeding early. It was very frustrating, and I was definitely out of sorts from the beginning. I need to play mid more to get comfortable with it again.

So i wanted to do this yesterday on pc however i forgot so bow i will need to do it on phone, so no quotes.

Well I already told via discord about the lvl2 agro play got you.

Sounds like mistake 2 can be considered not respecting the hades damage by staying "out of range" (close enough to basic the wave however far enough away that he can't dash on you (or if his souls range is larger hit both abilities)

Boots mistake is a major oops. Probably would have tried to get it even earlier cause of how behind you were (depending on hades his boots)

Skill lvl up im split about since i have the feeling it wasn't going to help you as much as at that point you would have easily get pushed under tower and needed more clear.

At 4 deaths the jgl isn't really able to help you anymore unless he is also fed or not alone. So you also realised playing safe a bit too late XD.

On the escape counter. Unless hades shrouds systematically you can't gust away until after he used it or you're sure youre not in range. So most of it would be not being to far in range.

It didn't really sink in how far I was until my...4th death? I was having major problems judging Hades' distance from Death, was getting caught in his ult, getting my abilities shut down, etc. At that point, I started slowly decreasing my deaths by actually staying under tower and farming as safely as possible, but then it started having a negative effect on our jungler, as Hades was pretty fed. And it's here where I want to talk about countering Hades as Isis.

This is is basically me everytime I play against Hades as a mage. For me, sitting under my tower until late game isn't a choice.

Safe Poke: Okay, if I wanted extremely safe poke, I could toss a Spirit Ball. Long range, it's super easy to dodge, though. And if for whatever reason he wouldn't be able to get out of the way, he could just use Death From Below to dodge it, AND hit the minion wave at the same time.

Can it hit the whole minion wave? If so, then the only problem is positioning to make use of the 1.5x damage while aiming for Hades.

Something else I noticed is that if your clear requires you to go relatively close to the minion wave, most Hades will stall by not attacking the minion wave at all to possibly bait. Or, he'll just tower dive you as you stated. In my experience, this is usually a free kill for the jungler if the jungler is nearby.

In the end, it felt like Hades hard-countered me...but at the same time, I think a lot of it (most of it?) was just misjudging distance and feeding early. It was very frustrating, and I was definitely out of sorts from the beginning. I need to play mid more to get comfortable with it again.

I don't know if that makes me a fraud or what. I feel that I've just developed a strong base of build crafting knowledge, combined with a good ability to explain things.

Conceptually I think I'm pretty solid, and if I watch gameplay of others I think I could coach or at least give a lot of good tips. Keep in mind here I'm meaning newer / lower levels of play , not pro . My biggest issue is applying them while I am playing.

Another side note...a lot of these games, I've been experimenting with no-stacking builds. Blessing + early Boots + potions, going into an early Ichaival and Asi. Holy hell that Ichaival feels like a game-changer. When I rush it and the enemy doesn't have it, I completely demolish them in a boxing match. Think it needs a minor nerf.

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