Solnabo, noisy??????? Prove to me that this aircraft is noisy thanks. An as for looks, thats not what airlines choice their aircraft upon. As for the 717, I will get to experience one for the first time next week. Will be interesting to see how it has improved over the MD-80 series.

I think the 717 is a fine aircraft, very good for what it was designed for (short frequent hops) and very efficient. The airframe has paid its dues, and is probably one of the best around.

But I think the 717 does not fit very well with the Boeing catalog, nor is it a good fit with airlines who have varying size needs.

Look at SAS for example. They have, in addition to their older DC-9/MD-80 fleet (which will be going soon), 737-600, -700 and -800 models. So from essentially a single parts bin, and common mechanical and flight training, cover all their capacity needs between 100 and 180 seats. If they had the 717 instead of the 737-600, they would need to dramatically increase their costs in order to accomodate it.

The same arguement goes with Southwest, American, and all other airlines that have short-medium range needs of varying capacities. They need to either choose the Airbus 318-321 family, or the Boeing 737 family.

Also, the 717 suffers a little bit from what I have called the "SX syndrome". Does anyone remember the Intel 486SX processor? The SX processor was a 486 processor with a few capabilities literally switched off, and sold cheaper. The chip had all the capabilities of the 486, but had been intentionally handicapped to put in a different segment. The 717 is similar to this. the 717, while structually based on the MD-80, and with far more efficient engines, has a range of only 1300 miles(1800 on some versions), far less than the MD-80, which could fly up to 2600 miles. Boeing must have intentionally "hobbled" the 717 in order not to compete with the 737. This is also why the 717 is stuck in 100-seat category, although the plane can clearly be adapted up to 170 seats, as was shown with the MD-80.

While I understand Boeing's desire to streamline their catalog, I do find it a pity that the 717 will never be allowed to develop to its full potential.

The 717 is outselling the 736 two to one...84 712 in service compare to 42 736. There are still more orders to be filled for the 717 while the 736 orders are coming to a standstill. I say, let Boeing cancel the 736, 753 & 764 and throw its support behind the 717. You can sell alot more smaller aircrafts than you can larger ones. Just my two cents here. Regards.

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin

I am also a fan of the 717 and I would love to see Boeing keep them in production, except from a business point of view it would not make much sense. I believe that the 736 is built in the same factory as the other 737's so for Boeing to offer this plane is no big deal as there is only a little modification done to the factory to build it. The 717 though has its own factory and that is a lot more expensive for Boeing. But I guess that we all should be finding out within a few weeks Boeings plans.

Please oh please, WHY will Boeing not stretch the 717 and come up with a 717-323 and tell AA it's a re-engined MD-80??? AA could scrap those plans for the 400- strong 737 fleet and go with somethign more efficient and familiar. MD-82 and 737-823 have nothing in common, MD-82 and 717-323 would have much more commonality to offer....

And, the 717-223 would be a GREAT replacement for old, noisy, and expensive to maintain Fokker 100s.

The mysterious Midwest Express order than has not been confirmed could save the 717 for a while at least. But as the days go by and we still see no press release or orders added to the 717 books, it looks like Midwest Express must be being forced to swallow some other Boeing or Arbus product. Boeing might have already decided to stop the 717, thusly encouraging Midwest Express to not order it.

Boeing did this to Lufthansa Cargo and Fed Ex with the MD-11. They wanted more, Boeing said NO! They delivered the original Lufthansa order and the last 2 for Eva Air and told FedEx to eat rox! So, then FedEx decided to go for the A300 until second hand MD-11s could be had.

Boeing could certainly make the 717 attractive by offering even ONE more stretched variant and increasing the range of the 717-200. But they havent uttered one word about that, so I expect that they arent planning on it.

As for the 717 being noisy....its the quietest commercial airliner in the skies (both in the cabin and outside), according the MDC (pre-merger) and Boeing. Incidently, the MD90 was the formerly quietest airliner and even the MD-80 is quieter than ANY of the 737NGs (cabin noise) unless you are in row 28-33.

1.Boeing HAS NOT decided to cancel the 717 yet, so stop fusing about it!!
2. Medwest Express WILL be taking delivery of the 717s that they have ordered.

3.STOP SPECULATING. I have friends who are not only the 717 line manager but also managers of the 717 program. UNTIL there is an official press release from Boeing announcing their decision(which should be later on this year/beginning of 2002), NOTHING IS WRITTEN IN STONE!

I support the 717 also. I've much rather see more 717s flying around than any other Boeing! Long Beach workers, IMHO, are the best in the business. The DC-8s that are still in commercial service, is proof of this. Anyone want to see a good plane even better? Let LGB build it. Regards.

"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin

LGB Photos
PLEASE- where is there confirmation that Midwest Express actually placed the order for 717s? Boeing doesnt show anything, no orders, no press release- nothing about it. Have they in fact truly placed the firm order for ACTUAL delivery?

Boeing says only 6 orders in all of 2001 for the 717, so where are these Midwest Express 717s? I have been waiting to see the confirmation of this as I LOVE the 717, but it doesnt seem to have happend yet. If you know otherwise, let us know!

LGB_Photos, I am sure that you have the exact same 717 Press kit as I do so I am going to Narrow this down, and you can confirm the information I am writing.

The 717 Front Cabin and Mid Cabin Noise Levels are below 82 decibels.

Airbus A318 costs 11.7% more to operate than the 717.

All 717 Emissions are Below that of the ICAO 2004 limits

So you see guys, The 717 is clearly a Successor of the DC9. Boeing just needs to give it a chance. Kind of like an old flame waiting to be re-lit, one of these days, the flame will ignite again, and orders will be ROLLING in.

Before I type the 'bad news' I just want you all to know that I have flown on the 717, like it, and it IS making money for TWA and AirTran. However, the question isn't WILL they cancel the program, it is WHEN will they announce it?

The key is timing. With a long lead time from first part(s) to first flight, the suppliers need to be issued plenty of advanced notice to stop 'making parts'.

Expect MWE to get their airplanes, but most likely not the ones that were originally ordered. AA will not dedicate themselves to maintaining and flying a fleet of 30 aircraft. Guess where THOSE airplanes will go? My money is on MWE (after mods) and perhaps some to AirTran. Yes, the 717 would be a perfect replacement for AA's F100s, but who wants them? AA cant sell them and Boeing doesn't want to be stuck with 74 of them in trade.

In order to compress the production line of the 717s, marketing the AA aircraft to another carrier(s) will accelerate the shut-down of the line by several years. Somebody earlier equated this to the M11 line, and that is so true. The strongest signal Boeing sent was even the 'hint' that the 717 would be discontinued. That waves a red flag to any airline that was even considering the 717. Would you buy a new car knowing that next year they would be discontinued because they are 'not making us enough money' and 'nobody else is interested'?

Regarding derivatives, a 717-100 could be a possibility for airlines that would like to have a 'family' of aircraft, ala 737 and Airbus. However, a 717-300 would NEVER be considered because it would cut into potential sales of the 736, which hasn't been selling well either as earlier stated.

Look at recent history, Boeing's goal is to have ALL commercial aircraft be built in Seattle. Mark my word, five-years (or less) from now the only aircraft being built in LGB will be the C-17, if even that.

To the 'nay-sayers' that conclude this is all crap, read the above again, and read every word. As much as I personally would like to see DOUGLAS at LGB survive, unfortunately, it wont...

Who knows, to keep the production lines in Long Beach going maybe airlines like Olympic Airways might want to place some orders for more 717s if they really love them to replace their aging fleet of 737-200s!

I think the future of the 717-200 is contingent on two airlines: Air Canada (AC) and Northwest (NW).

Both airlines have big fleets of shorter range jets that are in desperate need of replacement by 2004-2005. If Boeing can hang on that long on the 717-200 production line we may be talking 150-175 airframes sold between AC and NW to replace their older jets.

Now why would Air Canada go for the 717 when they already have a fleet of airbus? Same with Northwest, they are gonna replace the DC-9 with the A319 from what I have been told. Aeromexico, Aerocalifornia, Cebu Pacific, Olympic Airlines, and Aloha would work for the 717. Mexicana could also replace some of the 727s with 717s, but that I doubt. Just have to wait and see.

But as a frequent flyer on a carrier that has a large fleet of MD-80's, I hate riding in the noisy, stinky, dark tubes!

Quite often I am required to purchase tickets on short notice. That means I get the crappyiest seats left over. If it's on an MD-80, that means I get to sit adjacent to the engines, the lavatories, the galley, (with the bitchy FA's), and all the other pax sticking their asses in my face while they wait in line for the lavatory!!!!

Did I mention that it is dark, stinky, and noisy in the back of these A/C?????

DC-9's, MD-80's, and 717's suck!!!!!! Boeing put their fuselage-mounted engines behind the pax cabin on the 727's. It was loud, but not obnoxious.

THE MIDWEST ORDER HASN'T BEEN ANNOUNCED BECAUSE BOEING AND MIDWEST ARE STILL HAMMERING OUT THE FINE POINTS OF THE CONTRACT THAT WILL BE SIGNED SOON.

NO ONE HAS MENTIONED NEW MEXICAN START-UP VUELAMEX EITHER, THE AIRLINE LOVES THE 717 HAS FOUR READY TO GO AT LGB AND PLAN TO ORDER TWO MORE AIRCRAFT NEXT YEAR. THIS MAY PROMT AEROMEXICO AND AEROCALIFORNIA TO TAKE A CLOSER LOOK AT THE 717 ONCE IT IS IN SERVICE SO CLOSE TO HOME. THE SOUTH AMERICAN MARKET MAY BE EFFECTED AS WELL, AEROPOSTAL MAY MAKE A PLAY FOR THE 717.

THE 717 (IT'S STILL AN MD-95 TO ME) HAS PROVEN ITSELF WORTHY SINCE ENTERING SERVICE. FLIGHT CREWS AND PASSENGERS ALIKE ALL SPEAK HIGHLY OF THIS WONDERFUL AIRPLANE, LET'S HOPE THE ALL SEEING, ALL KNOWING BOEING CO. LISTENS, DOUGLAS ALWAYS DID BUILD A SUPERIOR AIRCRAFT THOUGH.

I don't think the 717 will survive because I don't think Boeing was ever serious about the 717. They kept the line going just to appease the city of Long Beach when they took over McDonell-Douglas. The 717 is an orphan...more airlines would be interested in it if it were part of a family and I don't believe Boeing has ever been too interested in stretching it or shrinking it because now they have an excuse to close down the program.

I think the 717 might just have a chance. Very recently, Mesa was rumored to have leased/purchased up to 10 737's. Continental Express is probably going to be spun off next year. The IPO was scrapped but Gordon Bethune yesterday in our weekly voicemail informed the company that the IPO was still in the works and hopefully next year a portion of Continental Express will be spun off. The long term intent is to totally spin off the company allowing COEX which will be called ExpressJet INC. to have the freedom to fly out of the Continental hub system and operate larger aircraft. The president of Express has hinted that the larger aircraft doesn't necessarily have to be an Embraer product and that he thought Boeing might have something to offer. If ExpressJet becomes a reality, it will be the largest independent National airline and can code share with carriers beyound Continental Airlines INC. The 717 could just be the right aircraft for this expansion if the 717 program lasts another year.

I Truly Believe that the 717 will catch on GLOBALLY in a couple of years. Once The Airlines Review, and Study it, and Test it, and Look at it some more. They will Be Literally Handing Over the dough for handfuls.

I think the reason why AC won't consider the Bombardier CRJ900 is that it's too big to be a regional airliner and too small to replace their older twinjets.

That's why I think the 928JET has a big chance: Fairchild-Dornier has pitched it specifically for mainline operations. That means no worries about pilot scope clauses and F-D could build quite a lot of these jets for a surprising amount of airlines around the world that need them (for example, in Europe the 928JET could be perfect for flying out to Corsica, Sardinia from France and Italy and flying out to the other Greek islands from ATH).