Discuss the possibility of Galladite being banned from the ORAS UU tier.

Use this thread to discuss Mega Gallade's effect in the metagame. Talk about the different sets it can use, its best partners/team support and potential checks & counters. State your opinion on whether you think Galladite should be banned or if it should stay in the ORAS UU tier.

All opinions are welcome to be presented, and arguments may be shared between players, as long as you back it up with knowledge and experience and refrain from making your entire points based on responses to others. Theorymonning is not a valid argument and anyone who bases their opinion in it risks being infracted. If you are relatively new to this kind of environment, i suggest you read these guidelines.

Do not forget that, if a consensus can't be found after this discussions reaches its end, a vote will be held.

Note: I'm not sure the calculator I used was updated for ORAS, so some calcs may be slightly off.

Guess I’ll start this off. Gallade’s a pretty big threat in the uu metagame as of now, its huge attack (base 165) and its good speed (base 110) allow him to easily plow through unprepared teams. I believe the better (and most common) set to be sd/psychic stab/fightning stab/knock off, so I’ll be using these in my calcs. I also think that a 252atk/252spd investment, along with a jolly nature is preferred, as it allows it to outspeed a notable portion of the metagame and hit like a truck. Do note, however, that other moves are totally viable on mega gallade, such as ice punch, leaf blade, shadow sneak, bulk up, will-o-wisp and taunt (there are probably others, but I can’t mention them all). As with the moves, the EVs can be moved around a bit to better suit the chosen moveset.

Speaking of speed, here’s a list of the (common) mons that can outspeed (not taking into account boosting moves/items) mega gallade in uu: Alakazam (mega or not), mega beedrill, mega lopunny, crobat, weavile, serperior, azelf, mega pidgeot, aerodactyl (mega or not), hawlucha, sceptile (mega or not), raikou, starmie, mega absol, mega houndoom, noivern and tornadus (T, Incarnate forme not being very common in the meta). There are others (lol ninjask), but I will not be naming them as most aren’t very viable in the uu metagame. Even though the calc says gallade and not mega gallade (same with other megas), I adjusted its defensive and offensive stats manually. Here’s how the previously mentionned mons fare vs mega gallade;

Alakazam:Psyshock/shadow ball/dazzling gleam are all 2HKOs (psyshock being the weakest of them : 252 SpA Alakazam Psyshock vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade: 141-166 (50.9 - 59.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO). However, non-existant bulk means it is also 2KOed (if not OHKOd) by any of mega gallade’s move, so it cannot really switch in, except on a predicted swords dance. It can win the 1 vs 1 if its sash is intact and is at 100% (unless gallade carries shadow sneak).

Alakazam (mega):Does a little more damage than mega zam, but still cannot OHKO ; 252 SpA Mega Alakazam Shadow Ball vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 194-230 (70 - 83%) -- guaranteed 2HKO (using timid because with the presence of mega drill in the meta, I think it the best nature for zam). It barely lives knock; off 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Mega Alakazam: 240-284 (95.6 - 113.1%) -- 75% chance to OHKO, meaning it is 2koed easily, regardless of what mega gallade uses(be it SD or a damaging move, which means bringing it in is pretty risky). Knock off not being a 100% OHKO means it has a slight chance of winning the 1 vs 1 (barring shadow sneak). Both zams are very shaky checks.

Mega Beedrill: Can switch into fightning stab and avoid the 2KO most times ;252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Beedrill: 118-139 (43.5 - 51.2%) -- 6.6% chance to 2HKO, and both u-turn and poison jab 2HKO (if u switch into CC, p-jab is a OHKO, and u-turn has solid OHKO chances). However, it may not switch into psychic stab, and knock off is a 2HKO. Shaky check at best, switching-in is very risky.

Serperior: 252 SpA Choice Specs Serperior Leaf Storm vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 196-232 (70.7 - 83.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO, and is 2KOd by fightning stab. (Choice specs isn’t really a set, just trying to show how this thing is more of a revenger rather than something that comes in on mega gallade and wins).

Mega Houndoom: Comes in on psychic stab and knock off. Do note that it needs to be in mega forme to do anything, and even then, it will lose ; 252 SpA Mega Houndoom Fire Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Gallade: 169-199 (61 - 71.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. More of a revenger than anything.

Tornadus-T: Ok so this thing has a LOT of viable sets, but your only option at OHKOing mega gallade is to hit hurricane OR use itemless acrobatics. Other flying stabs will score a 2HKO. Comes in with relative ease on fightning stab; 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Tornadus-T: 141-166 (47.1 - 55.5%) -- 75% chance to 2HKO. Knock off+psychic stab has a good shot at 2HKOing torn, but gallade isn’t likely to stay in. Moreover, torn has regenerator to keep it healthy (although the SR weakness can be a hassle at times). With a somewhat bulky spread, torn can be a decent offensive check to mega gallade (it still cannot switch in with impunity, but its 1 decent check).

Pidgeot (mega): Hurricane is a clean OHKO, has access to roost meaning it can heal the dmg when you’re confident mega gallade is going to switch out. Lives any hit barring CC, which can OHKO; 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Pidgeot: 280-331 (91.2 - 107.8%) -- 50% chance to OHKO. Rocks will make pidgeot’s life miserable though, and it needs to be in its mega forme when switching-in. Poor check.

Of this list, very few mons can safely switch-in into mega gallade (it goes down to predictions in most cases), meaning it is really hard to check it with an offensive mon. Also, not all mons on this list can OHKO gallade, meaning that even if you manage to switch them in safely, u may not be able to beat mega gallade 1 on 1. Sometimes, your best bet is to revenge kill it, meaning we can add a few mons to the list of things that can force mega gallade out (do note that in many cases, you will be forced to sac a pokemon). This list is probably not complete, but I’ve tried to include relevant scarfers in the uu metagame;

Priority: probably the last mean of revenge killing this monster on HO teams, prio can help pick mega gallade off if it has been weakened beforehand. Here’s a list of notable priority users in the tier(I will not calc any of mega gallade’s attacks vs these mons, their purpose is to kill it through priority, not switch in reliably);

As you can see, very few offensive checks can switch into mega gallade reliably, so offensive teams can have a very hard time dealing with mega gallade.

Enough with the offensive checks, I’ll now tackle more defensive options : fat mons that can live pretty much any hit, thanks to their good defensive stats and/or typing. Most of these mons have access to good recovery moves, meaning they are somewhat reliable.

Defensive Arcanine: A very popular pokemon in the metagame, its access to intimidate, morning and sun will-o-wisp means it is a reliable answer to mega gallade, even though the stealth rock weakness can be a hassle at times ; -1 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Arcanine: 130-154 (33.9 - 40.2%) -- 37.7% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Flare blitz 2HKOs with ease. Do note that if mega Gallade uses sd on the switch, arcanine might lose if it steps on SR. Still a solid answer.

Quagsire: A very popular pokemon on stall, quaggod doesn’t really cut it on this one; 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Unaware Quagsire: 187-222 (47.4 - 56.3%) -- 30.5% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. With SR on the field, 2HKO chances rise to 84%, same thing if your leftovers were knocked out. Quag will wall any version lacking cc though, unless gallade is packing the uncommon leaf blade. EQ 3HKOs, but quag might find it hard to attack at all if gallade is attacking relentlessly.

Defensive Salamence: Eats anything up with ease, so unless gallade uses swords dance on the switch, it’ll win easily. Dragon claw deals solid damage (3HKO), dragon pulse is a 4HKO. Rocks can be annoying, but mence can force gallade out and proceed to defog. Solid check, but can still potentially lose if gallade SD, or if its packing ice punch.

Forretress: Close combat is only a 3HKO, gyro ball with a relaxed nature and 0 speed IVs deals solid damage ; 0 Atk Forretress Gyro Ball (115 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gallade: 118-141 (42.5 - 50.9%) -- 3.9% chance to 2HKO. The lack of recovery makes forry more of a check than a counter, and SD will allow gallade to muscle through forry if it has been previously weakened.

Cresselia: Physically defensive cress handles mega gallade quite well and it has access to reliable recovery, even though the first knock off will hurt ; 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cresselia: 160-190 (36 - 42.7%) -- 96% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery. Moonblast is a safe 3HKO, and you can go full Mexican and t-wave gallade. Switching into sd might cost you your cress though. It is worth noting that 252/252+ spread for cress is not used a lot in the metagame as it is sub-optimal, so the calcs may be off. Still a very solid answer.

Tangrowth: can take a +0 cc with relative ease; 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Tangrowth: 144-171 (35.7 - 42.4%) -- 91.9% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery, and access to regenerator means it is easy to keep healthy. However, giga drain is a 4HKO (turns into an easy 3HKO after CC drop), so chances are it will lose the 1 vs 1 (loses soundly if gallade uses sd). Poor check. Do note that the calc might be a little off, as most Tangrowths use HP ice, which lowers your defense IVs to 30.

Alomomola: Scald version needs to hope for a burn, waterfall is a 4HKO. Toxic stalling is probably the best option, but watch out for sd variants, as +2 CC will hurt a lot ; +2 252 Atk Gallade Close Combat vs. 232 HP / 252+ Def Alomomola: 390-459 (73.7 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery. Regenerator means it is easy to keep healthy, and rocky helmet variants, when combined with toxic, will wear down gallade quite quickly. Not the best check there is, but it has a chance to work.

Sableye: Similar to Spiritomb, but a little less bulky ; 252 Atk Gallade Knock Off (97.5 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Sableye: 110-130 (36.1 - 42.7%) (following knock offs will be weaker). Access to priority will-o-wisp and recover means it can stall it out easily, and foul play deals a lot of damage. Physically defensive is probably what you could call a counter.

Mega Sableye: It may not have prankster, but its increased bulk (and “lack” of item) means gallade has very thin chances of getting past it, probably the best counter. Do note that this thing is also getting suspected (and it will rise to OU through usage, too), meaning it isn’t all that relevant anymore.

Diancie: Physically defensive avoids the 2HKO from any move, and 2HKOs in return; 0 SpA Diancie Moonblast vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Gallade: 182-216 (65.7 - 77.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO. It can switch in once, as it will win even if gallade CCs, thanks to the defence drop (very good odds of killing it outright at -1). Mega diancie is 2HKOd and has to risk the speed tie to win, but it OHKOs mega gallade (mentioning it is futile though, since mega diancie is very likely to leave the tier).

Whimsicott: Pretty much in a category of its own, but if you switch into anything except psychic stab, you can encore and proceed to sub/moonblast, so there’s that.

Granbull: Eats anything up (zen headbutt is only a possible 5HKO), only way for gallade to win is to sd on the switch and get good zen headbutt rolls. Can t-wave and play rough, and the latter deals massive damage; 0 Atk Granbull Play Rough vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Gallade: 236-278 (85.1 - 100.3%) -- 6.3% chance to OHKO. Lack of recovery isn’t fun, but it’s a solid check nonetheless.

I could probably name some other good checks/counters (pretty sure I forgot some very good ones), but I tried to limit myself to decent uu mons. As you can see, some mons can reliably deal with mega gallade (using sd on the switch can make them lose, and even though I felt it was worth noting, I’m not a fan of that argument as it relies on prediction (even though said predictions can be easy to pull off at times, since mega gallade can force a number of things out)). +2 mega gallade basically murders almost everything in the tier, which is why stall teams can have a lot of trouble dealing with it, so applying pressure is key.

As you can see, mega gallade is really threatening and everytime it comes in, it has a shot at killing something on most teams. However, gallade’s typing and average bulk do not allow it to come in on many mons. It only resists fightning and rocks (resisting SR is neat though), and most times, the best way of bringing him in is through a double switch or a predicted non damaging move, as most top mons in uu can deal solid damage to it. Also, even though the mentioned checks can lose to gallade, it doesn’t come out unscathed from these match-ups, meaning it can be worn down and KOed by another pokemon.

Also worth noting is the fact that I was using only 1 set on most of these analyses, and that some mons who could have been counters/checks can become set up bait/be neutralized by other sets, so failproof counters are rare.

I’d conclude by saying that despite having a few flaws, gallade is still a huge threat in the uu metagame. It may not be used that much, but that can be explained by some other (possibly) broken megas are used in its place. I do think it is an unhealthy force in the uu metagame due to the very small amount of stuff that can reliably switch into it, but other posters are welcomed to try and change my mind :]

Id like to mention the possiblity of Skill Swap to get past some of its usual counters like Mega Sableye (if youre sd the sets without foul play), quagsire (I believe cc already deals 50ish and since unaware ignores your drops thats not rly a counter, but still), beating arcanine 1v1 so without previous set up, along other cool stuff (Medicham anyone?), thus making it a pain in the ass for stall teams as well as more offensively orientated teams

Great banter guys!
Anyway, MGallade is a destructive force in UU. ORAS gave it a boost in all the right places, fixing its poor Defense to satisfactory levels, allowing it to not get 2HKO'd by every physical hit it doesnt resist, while making it outspeed and KO a majority of the offensive threats thanks to a combination of 165 Attack (equal to its counterpart's Sp. Attack) and 110 Speed.

Its moveset isn't very versatile, nor does it need it to be, since Close Combat, Psycho Cut and Knock Off, boosted by Swords Dance, put immense pressure on your opponent and likely force it to sacrifice a teammate to have a chance at revenge killing it. Shadow Sneak is less viable, more situationally beneficial to the player, while other moves don't cope well with the SD set and require a full transformation to MGallade, be it the Bulk Up set, or the Bulky Annoyer set with Taunt, Will-o-Wisp, Knock Off and Wish, the latter facing issues with Stall's preferred choice in UU: Florges.

The first set was developed enough in this thread, and i don't have much to add to it. Gallade isn't an awful choice in UU, in its regular form, which makes it easier to find safe opportunities to mega evolve than its direct rivals Lopunny and Beedrill, while not as easy of cakewalk as bulkier pokemon with better defensive typing, like Sableye and Diancie. Dealing with SD MGallade adds a crucial role to prediction and mindgames, because as soon as you see MGallade, it becomes your absolute priority to scare him out (not easily achieved) or kill it.
So at first, you can try to dent it and let a faster pokemon revenge kill it, thus losing one pokemon in the process, or switch to something more suitable white it sets up SD and hope to OHKO it. But what if it doesn't set up, and instead blasts one of its powerful STABs, leaving you short of one pokemon or severely crippled, and MGallade free to switch out and return when it can. This is the situation i find in most MGallade's answers. You may have things that can take an unboosted MGallade, but you may not be able to take it with what you have on the field, or you might not have a switch in that can outspeed and kill a MGallade that chooses to setup. And on top of that, for bulky answers to MGallade like Bulky Salamence and Arcanine, Forretress, Florges and so on, it also gets Knock Off, a move it makes great benefit of with its ability to force switch-ins, and that cripples a wall's longevity throughout the remainder of the match.

There is, however, another set that i've been presented and that i think is even better than SD in the current metagame, which is the Sub Bulk Up set. This set, better than no other, maximizes the potential of every stat (bar Sp. Attack lol) to make it a nearly unstoppable force. Full HP to allow for bigger subs and max Speed to still have an edge over most of the unboosted tier. Not boosting its Attack becomes almost redundant due to it possessing a stat of 366 (higher than Jolly Terrakion) without Nature or EV boosting. It's fairly simple: you await an opportunity to setup Sub, mainly a wall that tries to induce status or other types of passive damage, and start setting up. Max HP MGallade's subs can tank any Scald that isn't Vaporeon's (110 SAtk), BulkyMence's Dragon Tail at +1, Bulky Arcanine's Flare Blitz at +2, and beat Crobat in a 1v1. All this while preserving health with Drain Punch against most threats. Some of the more common offensive answers to MGallade, be it Lopunny's Fake Out or ScarfRachi's hax, are left useless and only make MGallade heal itself more. I'd recommend you all to use it, but since i'm banning this thing you can all try it in OU lmao.

So, due to forcing a lot of 5o/50's, possessing amazing stats, STAB moves, coverage, setup moves and exerting unhealthy pressure in the metagame, having the capability to beat everything in a 1 on 1 with the right set (except for Sableye, which is getting discussed later), Galladite is getting banned from the ORAS UU tier. Thank you all for your participation!