If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

At the end of the day it's an advertising tool for the game series (and not the other way round), so we can't expect it to have the kind of story arc of usual anime series derived from works of talented manga artists. It doesn't build up the tension towards the end point, because frankly speaking there's none.

Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat

IDK what you mean about it not being a manga, but I agree that the anime should be more like Adventures. The anime as it is is just too boring.

Whether the manga can make a better series is debatable. For one thing, even though the current animated series don't follow the games in terms of certain battle mechanics, they don't actually contradict the games by depicting people like gym leaders as antagonists. And frankly speaking as someone who doesn't follow the series I still enjoy the game itself, and I don't see how an animated series based on Special/Adventure would my gaming experience any better. They're kind of unrelated no?

Last edited by Hidden Power; 13th November 2012 at 3:50 PM.

The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

They said the Pokemon Special manga was closest to their vision of the Pokemon World.

Ha ha ha ha ha... no.

The quote you're referring to was a throwaway line regarding the first volume, and the first volume only, of Special in relation to the other mangas available, those other mangas being a couple of gag series. The anime was never compared to Special. It really doesn't mean anything.

And Pokemon Special really doesn't need to be animated. Honestly, the writing isn't nearly as good as some fans make it out to be. Really.

98% of the teenage population has died smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
Good old natural selection...

"14 year old Hilda is a Pokemon Trainer with a secret: she can talk to Pokemon. After setting off into Unova, she gets involved in the affairs of Team Plasma and becomes acquainted with N, a mysterious guy her age. He may possess the exact same abilities as her but his views couldn't be more different. As her team grows in strength, numbers and bonds, Hilda finds a tangled web of mystery weaving around her and a daunting fate that she can't ever turn her back on..."

At the end of the day it's an advertising tool for the game series (and not the other way round), so we can't expect it to have the kind of story arc of usual anime series derived from works of talented manga artists. It doesn't build up the tension towards the end point, because frankly speaking there's none.

Tell that to other similar series like Digimon, Yu-gi-oh, and Bakugan that also manage to advertise the series while also actually having a plot.

Originally Posted by Hidden Power

Whether the manga can make a better series is debatable. For one thing, even though the current animated series don't follow the games in terms of certain battle mechanics, they don't actually contradict the games by depicting people like gym leaders as antagonists.

If having a few OOC gym leaders is the only flaw, I'd gladly take that as opposed to a series with 1% plot and 99% filler.

Originally Posted by Hidden Power

And frankly speaking as someone who doesn't follow the series I still enjoy the game itself, and I don't see how an animated series based on Special/Adventure would my gaming experience any better. They're kind of unrelated no?

It enhances the games' experience by investigating certain plot points the game may not. For instance, we knew that Silver was Giovanni's son in the manga long before we did in the games.

Originally Posted by LizardonX

Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

Tell that to other similar series like Digimon, Yu-gi-oh, and Bakugan that also manage to advertise the series while also actually having a plot.

The nature of those series is that they're not centered a semi-RPG game where there's a protagonist following some sort of story, but other forms of merchandise. One is a monster version of Tamagotchi with battling capabilities, and two are card games. You can even add the Battle B-Daman, Mini 4-wheel drive, Beyblade to the list; I see like a new merchandise series on my local kids channel every two years or so. There's more, but I can't remember the names.

The series (or actually, I only know the early generations of the Digimon series) are alright for the purpose they're meant to serve. But you have to understand that these series have the liberty to design any character, have any crazy storyline about world destruction and blow what the merchandise actually does out of proportions because there's nothing else to do. The Pokemon series on the other hand serves to primarily introduce new Pokemon and impart basic game knowledge to kids who're not tech savvy enough to find out information from fansites, and those information are actually applicable to the game itself.

Not to mention that Adventure has a rather dark theme involving death of characters and Pokemon. Even the digimon series, which has more monster-like depiction, has to tone down on the death part by describing digimon death as returning to their egg form.

For me, the series can improve by just including more realistic elements, like having a more decent team of late stage Pokemon, more epic fights, and perhaps spending more time on events that take place in the game as well. But to do that we'll have to replace Ash Ketchum first. I don't really need the excessively dramatic storyline that won't make sense in the game itself.

Last edited by Hidden Power; 13th November 2012 at 5:05 PM.

The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

Not to mention that Adventure has a rather dark theme involving death of characters and Pokemon. Even the digimon series, which has more monster-like depiction, has to tone down on the death part by describing digimon death as returning to their egg form.

I don't mind that. I just care that it's in a similar style to Adventure, not a word for word adaptation.

Originally Posted by Hidden Power

For me, the series can improve by just including more realistic elements, like having a more decent team of late stage Pokemon, more epic fights, and perhaps spending more time on events that take place in the game as well. But to do that we'll have to replace Ash Ketchum first.

That would certainly go a long way to making the series more interesting. I doubt they'll want to replace Ash, though, nor do I necessarily think they need to.

Originally Posted by LizardonX

Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

Just a question: does SOMEBODY from the target audience even know why Ash doesn't evolve pikachu or why he have him in the first place the answer is probably: no. so.. they should end the anime and start another one.. I think the B2W2 promo was really well done for a pokemon anime it could run with some filler battles of some NPC fights or events for 12 episodes at least per game series released so they have as of now klike 200 episodes that can be done for every main series game.. and do it with the script of the games with some twists and stuff.

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

Back when the game doesn't actually have much of a storyline, and internet usage wasn't as widespread, the series does a pretty good job in keeping things exciting on a weekly basis, and this probably still applies to kids today. Eventually, we as players get to battle the Elite Four and Blue/Gary even though Ash never made it that far because he always loses at the qualifying rounds of the League (which if you ask me seems similar to PWT).

After that, the anime series move on to the Orange League, and I lost my interest in it, since it's not longer reflective of the game in terms of the choice of protagonist and the major events that take place. I have no idea how accurate or farfetched the manga is compared to the game with the given characters either. They seem set on using the color of the generation for their protagonists even though the game as moved away from that practice since what, Gen III?

The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.

The current anime is fine as it is considering what it's purpose is.Yeah,it could be better,but it's still fine.

This anime is full of plot holes so I wouldn't consider the anime good..
one plot hole: ash celebrated a year for pikachu being with him
another: he doesn't know the type match ups in this gen he previously knew it.

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

Tell that to other similar series like Digimon, Yu-gi-oh, and Bakugan that also manage to advertise the series while also actually having a plot.

The difference is that well, for Yu-Gi-Oh! and Bakugan at least, they weren't created to be an advertisement (Even if you consider the Pokemon anime to be one... some would dismiss that as cynical) they were just two anime's (Well Yu-Gi-Oh! was originally a manga) which happened to be toyetic (Yu-Gi-Oh! was based about games and that was always going to happen). And Digimon hasn't been advertising it's brand using it's anime (which is almost definitely the most famous element of the brand) since Tamers.

The Pokemon anime is probably the only one out of the four which was a direct merchandising tool and still is. And for that matter is probably the most successful I mean Bakugan was never that big and Digimon is a lot smaller a brand now.

If you use your own argument and say that Yu-Gi-Oh! was a tool for marketing then you could say that it proves that changing the status quo might not be all for the good, I mean lots of Yu-Gi-Oh! fans don't like/won't watch the new series because it's different/they consider them inferior to the original (I don't but that's not something to argue about here).

The reason why The Pokemon Company wouldn't replace the anime as it is still working as a merchandising tool and because it's practically built on the Fleeting Demographic Rule, it can get away with reusing plotlines because the majority of it's fanbase are children who won't touch the series when they get older, and the simpler storylines are easy enough to follow.

It's arguable that the Pokemon Adventure series are meant for a slightly older demographic, meaning and that's why they have slightly more complex plots. I myself would find if the series was adapted (alongside the current series, as that would be the safest way to have it done, financially) it would be unnecessary, I mean I'm not that massive a fan of the manga (they're good, not brilliant) but y'know, there's already a quite similar anime series and the manga aren't going to disappear, some of the manga fans might like it, but some of the anime fans might think it steps on their territory.

This anime is full of plot holes so I wouldn't consider the anime good..
one plot hole: ash celebrated a year for pikachu being with him
another: he doesn't know the type match ups in this gen he previously knew it.

1.And how exactly is that a plot hole?
2.Elesa
Didn't say it was good,I said it was fine for what its purpose it.

Originally Posted by Hidden Power

You spoke like a veteran, for someone whose signature image exceeded the limit set by the forum rules.

I've actually been here for some time and I've been meaning fix it,but haven't gotten around to it.Besides,no one else has said anything about it so why bother?

This anime is full of plot holes so I wouldn't consider the anime good..
one plot hole: ash celebrated a year for pikachu being with him
another:

This is known as "serial fiction". In "serial fiction", which is an ongoing series without a definite end following a franchise's characters around on whatever the plot is, there is no concrete passage of time. This is even more common in animated series that go on, especially ones that run for several years. The Flinstones, Simpsons, Jetsons, and many other animated series (as well as non animated such as many comic book icons, James Bond films, and so on) reference a passage of time while the characters essentially remain ageless, or at least has a slowing age rate.

he doesn't know the type match ups in this gen he previously knew it.

The anime is considered to be a "realistic" take on times. Ash doesn't have a type matchup chart he can Google search for. He'll make mistakes, as any excited 10 year old will do.

IMO people who want to have something like [insert manga series here] should probably go read that manga series, and let the extremely successful anime series do its own thing.

I'm part of the staff at Project Pokemon! Smod in forums, AOP in IRC, Administrator on Shoddy. Come visit us. Our Project is Pokemon!

1.And how exactly is that a plot hole?
2.Elesa
Didn't say it was good,I said it was fine for what its purpose it.

I've actually been here for some time and I've been meaning fix it,but haven't gotten around to it.Besides,no one else has said anything about it so why bother?

Oh I forgot: BW narrative: ash ketchump a 10 year old

MEH I don't care about the rest of BW when he screw up twice in the only 2 episodes I watched (the first one and the 52 BW episode (he attacked chandelure with flame charge.. like ok he doesn't know he have flash fire but a fire type resists fire..)

Ash uses an electric pokemon AT LEAST it is expected he knew grass types like snivy would resist an electric attack then why did he attempt to use thunderbolt on snivy? Ash should be by now a very experienced trainer.. so it is absurd he made such a noobish error he wouldn't do in sinnoh (not like I watched most of sinnoh).

And I know he lost to Trip AGAIN a total noob he just started how an experienced pokemon trainer like Ash can lose to a noob?

conclution:
1. Ash is an eternal noob
2. There is a deletation of the progress he made in previous series <- this annoys me I still track what happens to know his fails and stuff.

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

And I know he lost to Trip AGAIN a total noob he just started how an experienced pokemon trainer like Ash can lose to a noob?

Yeah, because I'm sure you always do everything perfectly.

People make mistakes, people slip up; it doesn't matter how long they've been doing what they're doing. Additionally, the fact that Ash lost to Trip only goes to show that Trip has a lot of potential himself.

Last edited by Endolise; 13th November 2012 at 9:43 PM.

Originally Posted by Lord Zoroark

Listen, you gotta remember these things; always avoid claims of Fennekin being (or becoming) part Fighting-type, don't tick off mods, and NEVER (and I mean NEVER!) suggest that Arceus is the God of Pokemon when Endolise is online. If you somehow make this mistake, run for the hills before he attempts to murder you via tongue lashing.

Have you ever watched a cartoon before or ever heard of serial fiction? It is fairly common for fictional universes, especially for one that has gone on as long as Pokemon, to essentially exist in an "ageless" environment. The Simpsons, 007 movies, and most comic book characters have been doing this for decades.

MEH I don't care about the rest of BW when he screw up twice in the only 2 episodes I watched (the first one and the 52 BW episode (he attacked chandelure with flame charge.. like ok he doesn't know he have flash fire but a fire type resists fire..)

Ash uses an electric pokemon AT LEAST it is expected he knew grass types like snivy would resist an electric attack then why did he attempt to use thunderbolt on snivy? Ash should be by now a very experienced trainer.. so it is absurd he made such a noobish error he wouldn't do in sinnoh (not like I watched most of sinnoh).

Resists aren't always the big deal they are in the anime as they are in the games. And Chandelure can have Flame Body as well, and Flame Charge has the additional boost of upping Tepig's speed.

And I know he lost to Trip AGAIN a total noob he just started how an experienced pokemon trainer like Ash can lose to a noob?

If you bothered to watch the episode, it is clearly explained why Pikachu lost to Snivy in BW001-BW002.

I'm part of the staff at Project Pokemon! Smod in forums, AOP in IRC, Administrator on Shoddy. Come visit us. Our Project is Pokemon!

The anime is considered to be a "realistic" take on times. Ash doesn't have a type matchup chart he can Google search for. He'll make mistakes, as any excited 10 year old will do.

IMO people who want to have something like [insert manga series here] should probably go read that manga series, and let the extremely successful anime series do its own thing.

That doesn't excuse him from forgetting it. Type matchups are part of the basics for being a Pokemon trainer, and even if he doesn't have a handy reference guide in front of him, he should still have a good idea of each type's strengths and weaknesses. There's no excuse for someone who's been a trainer for so long to forget certain key type matchups, there's no other explanation but sheer stupidity.

Originally Posted by Mr Dragon

The reason why The Pokemon Company wouldn't replace the anime as it is still working as a merchandising tool and because it's practically built on the Fleeting Demographic Rule, it can get away with reusing plotlines because the majority of it's fanbase are children who won't touch the series when they get older, and the simpler storylines are easy enough to follow.

It's arguable that the Pokemon Adventure series are meant for a slightly older demographic, meaning and that's why they have slightly more complex plots. I myself would find if the series was adapted (alongside the current series, as that would be the safest way to have it done, financially) it would be unnecessary, I mean I'm not that massive a fan of the manga (they're good, not brilliant) but y'know, there's already a quite similar anime series and the manga aren't going to disappear, some of the manga fans might like it, but some of the anime fans might think it steps on their territory.

I hate it when people use the excuse "it's just a kids' show" as an excuse for terrible, dumbed down writing. There are several kids' shows that are capable of darker and overarching plotlines. Besides, why should you aim just at kids anyway? Why not go for a show that has a more universal target audience instead, where younger AND older viewers can enjoy it?

Last edited by Bolt the Cat; 13th November 2012 at 9:49 PM.

Originally Posted by LizardonX

Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

Besides the hardcore Pokémon fans there are very few people have seen every episode.. No really, I've not seen any of Johto Saga Storylines. The Target Audience is could stay for two to three years, or just a few weeks. Plus, Unless you know where to look, you can't find every episode.

While the same "story" is occasionally repeated, they do a twists and such.

At current count, 758 Episodes in 12 years, with same 2 main characters is nearly as many Episodes as Dr Who. While some shows of each just feature the same Main character as a "minor character." (Dr Who actually has one story where the Doctor doesn't appear: http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Mission...%28TV_story%29 - (There are episodes where Ash and Pikachu are not seen, but these are not counted in the number.)) Dr. Who is nearly 50 years old and has different actors playing the Main Character. (It's possible not single person seen every Doctor Who Episode, partly as some are missing.)

Well, a 30 Minute advert for your game is actually quite nice especially if you don't need to buy a Subscription for TV for your customers to see it. At least for the UK. I don't know about Japan's TV Tokyo. I don't think USA's CN is Free like ITV is in the UK.

Card Game History Has Been Waiting For

I designed this game: Historical Conquest to bring History and Entertainment together. I have been working on it for a few years and need some feedback. I want to put it out for gamers to look at and see if they have any critiques or ideas. But I know what the rules are, no linking out of the site and no spamming, so how do I get good critiques. I put it on Kickstarter.com but I need Card Gamers to look at it and tell me what it needs.

Should Vulpix be in LC? Or should Hippopotas and Snover be out of LC?

one of the "safer" and more common teams in LC will involve hippopotas and drilbur due to their immense power together with sand stream and sand rush. excadrill is a pokemon in the uber tier due to its immense power in a sandstorm, yet drilbur hasnt been confined to a higher tier too. and whilst all the fully evolved weather pokemon (hippowdon, tyranitar, ninetales, politoed, abomasnow) are all in the OU tier with tyranitar arguably being the only pokemon to have an OU function outside of its ability, yet vulpix is not allowed in lc or any other tier right up to OU which makes it obsolete as ninetales is in that tier, yet hippopotas and snover are allowed in lc and all the subsiquent tiers. sand stream and excadrill are considered too powerful for ou and as such are an uber combination, but sand stream and drilbur arent too powerful for lc yet drought vulpix is.

ultimately i believe that either vulpix should be allowed in lc (certainly ru, nu and uu), or hippopotas and snover (and maybe drilbur too since excadrill is uber) should be banned from lc which is ultimately what i think, but i know that everyone has a different opinion, so i would like to know what people think of this.

Should this thread be in the General Discussion board, or in the Competitive Discussion board? I believe you can delete the thread under Thread Tools (top right corner) and create a similar thread in the appropriate board.

The best evolutionary designs are brought about by a balance between change and consistency.Artwork by Piper Thibodeau. You can view more of her work here.