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Joined: 14-May 07
From: Where I am standing on the RUINS of the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY
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Yes, just great Domenick.

The crater was only 6 or 8 feet deep? Twenty feet wide? How do you fit 100 tons of aircraft into such a low volume area?The alleged 37 passengers (including the alleged 4 'hijackers') and 7 crew members (44) with their seats would not fit into that area.Where did the rest of the alleged 757 aircraft go? More Bush Regime magic?

Alleged Flt 93 Crash Site After Excavation

The Flt 93 Crash Site Picture The First Day - Before Excavation (Click me)

Group: Respected Member
Posts: 518
Joined: 14-May 07
From: Where I am standing on the RUINS of the 9-11 OFFICIAL STORY
Member No.: 1,045

Shanksville Coroner Wally Miller was there, on the scene of the alleged Flt 93 crash site, soon after the alleged crash.

How is it that a 100 ton aircraft, allegedly almost in a vertical dive (alleged 40 degree nose-down inverted attitude) and allegedly at 563 mph, only buried 6-8 feet deep in a soft soil coal strip mine?

That seems preposterous.

QUOTE (Famous Wally Miller quotations)

Miller was among the very first to arrive after 10:06 on the magnificently sunny morning of September 11. He was stunned at how small the smoking crater looked, he says,"like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped all this trash into it." Once he was able to absorb the scene, Miller says,"I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."

Immediately after the crash, the seeming absence of human remains led the mind of coroner Wally Miller to a surreal fantasy:that Flight 93 had somehow stopped in mid-flight and discharged all of its passengers before crashing."There was just nothing visible," he says. "It was the strangest feeling."It would be nearly an hour before Miller came upon his first trace of a body part.

Another 14 victims of Flight 93 identifiedSaturday, October 27, 2001At the same time, the high winds that buffeted the area over the last few days have dislodged additional airplane parts -- seat cushions,wiring, carpet fragments and pieces of metal -- from trees near the crash site."It's all aircraft parts, no human remains," Miller said. "We've collected them in 10 recycling bin-sized containers and eventually we'll turn them all over to United."

as i'm sure you're well aware from that there are definitely contradictions between truth and bush's 9/11 commission. wally recites the official flight path cross route 30 and the scrap yard and then explains how the plane came in with it's wings vertical to the ground [which i have corroborated with other witnesses which means it isn't inverted] with the right wing hitting first and the front of the plane shattering off into the woods.

you can draw a straight line from the deepest point of the damaged woods making an arrow and see this plane cannot come over the scrap but has to come more from the east.

indian lake marina and indian lake golf course are directly due east of the crash site if not a tad northeast.

this would explain the debris field in the lake especially if an intercept by the small white plane witnessed by many residents took place.

indications are that most likely edward felt's phone call to west moreland county 911 happened later than stated in the printed media and that his account of the goings on at that point are accurate.

the only explanation for the lack of plane debris would be that there was a bomb of some type aboard the aircraft. that would also help explain why passengers were loaded from the tarmac which was highly unusual. 2 men of middle eastern backgrounds exited the plane as soon as there was an announcement that there was going to be a delay. these men most likely were the men who placed guns on the plane for the hijackers as described by tom burnett.

this would then explain the need to shoot down this plane and also cover it up. using the government's phone calls against them we can determine that 3 men hijacked this plane. there was no resistance from the pilots because the hijackers did indeed have guns like which was reported on aa11 as well. there is no other explanation.

the delay at newark that morning [for still unexplained reasons] are what jeopardized this aspect of the operation and forced the bush regime to abort. on the flights that struck the towers had the passengers made any airphone calls out they would not have received information that planes were being used in suicide missions which wouldn't give anyone a reason to start an uprising as they would believe the hijackers were really returning to the airport until it was too late.

the plane armed with a bomb was most likely going to nose dive right into the lap of congress allowing the immediate implementation of martial law. had the plane been successfully taken over [40 vs. 3] and the passengers gained control and with help were able to land it the whole operation would have been exposed long before the dust settled anywhere that day.

i can't find any witnesses to a plane flying away from the crash site.i can't find any witnesses to a c130 dumping debris or even being in the area that morning.

i can find witnesses to the plane heading towards the site with its wings vertical to the ground. i can find witnesses to the white plane being there after the explosion.

and if you want to check with shelton i believe i have the name of someone who's going to tell an account that is going to be very very important.

thats just my thoughts at this time. they can be changed should something new come to light.

oh and yeah..... do you like how wally says indian lake is in the direction of the blast trajectory into the woods?

The crater was only 6 or 8 feet deep? Twenty feet wide? How do you fit 100 tons of aircraft into such a low volume area?The alleged 37 passengers (including the alleged 4 'hijackers') and 7 crew members (44) with their seats would not fit into that area.Where did the rest of the alleged 757 aircraft go? More Bush Regime magic?

<font size="3">Alleged Flt 93 Crash Site After Excavation</font>

<font size="3">The Flt 93 Crash Site Picture The First Day - Before Excavation</font> (Click me)

thank you!

appreciate it. i have to thank shelton and state rep bob bastian for making it all possible.

and if you look at the pond in the images posted that is in the direction of the blast trajectory there that is where wally miller says a 1 ton section of the 2nd engine was recovered somewhere between 500-600 yards away from the site.

he went out of his way to stress how small the crater was sayin only 6-8 feet deep and agreeing with it being somewhere between 15-20 feet wide.

he said how little human remains were recovered.

he even went into detail about these statements.

i do not believe wally miller is shilling for the united states government for a second. if this is a staged scene as some people [not i] contend then wally miller was duped as well as he would require being. but i and the others who accompanied me that day and spend 2 hours with the man believe he is genuine.

wally miller is willing to talk about no plane theories and no body theories but ask him about shoot down theories.......'i dont wanna talk about that'.

It'd be interesting to see a dotted map of parts/remains found in that area.

Another stellar effort, /salute

thank you!

there were hundreds of photos.

this site was not however, documented in the way you describe as it should have been. this would have made for a better understanding of the crash dynamics involved during a reconstruction and even explained which passengers where were and possibly helped identify remains that were deemed 'unidentifiable'.

of course the government did not want such a real investigation taking place.

there are no photos of anything inside the crater. if they exist wally miller sure doesn't have them or took them.

i will be hopefully acquiring a full set of them minus the ones containing human remains. i have to check to see how much the charge is going to be to purchase them.

Wally has a funeral home business and we were there because Wally is an old acquaintance of Representative Bob Bastian, the retiring state rep. from Somerset. It was pretty clear that had Bob not requested it, we probably would not have got the time of day from Wally. I am grateful to Bob (and to Wally) for being a man of his word. He professed genuine interest in the information that has not been explained by the official account.

Wally appeared to be stifling an impulse to kick us all out before we got started, in fact I thought he was doing that with his first words, but he was prefacing his interview by saying that he would not be commenting on what happened to the aircraft before the crash - which may have implied that he felt a shoot-down could not be ruled out, however, he did describe the attitude of the aircraft at impact- in a 90 degree bank, which, if memory serves, is at variance with both the FDR information and the crater. He calmed down quite a bit after that, and I thought he was relatively forthcoming.

When he was asked whether we could photograph some of the pictures (there was quite a stack of them) he became a bit exercised and implied that we wanted to photograph body parts and put them on the internet. Dom was quick to reassure him that we would do no such thing, but were interested in pictures that showed layout of the scene, wreckage, etc. One figure that stood out for me was (as I recall) that only 8% of the body parts were recovered, and one of our colleagues indicated that several of the photos seemed to be of the same parts, however all but four of the persons aboard were identified out of what had to be like human confetti. The identifications came via the FBI, intially by fingerprint and dental records, and later DNA and were the basis for the death certificates that Wally issued. Wally's part appeared to be primarily as the contact with the family members.

I, and the others who sat in, agree with Dom's assessment that Wally, while he may have been manipulated by the FBI, is sincere in his belief that the investigation of Shanksville and the ensuing account of the scene reflected reality. That still leaves plenty of room for questions, and I look forward to a contrast of the final attitude of the aircraft, as reflected by the FDR, and the impact angle described by Wally. I also look forward to Dom's follow-up with some hither-to unknown witnesses, as far as I know.

Hats off to Dom and to Craig and Aldo, who have to be - pound for pound - some of the most productive and tenacious investigators in the world. Great job, guys.SFL

One figure that stood out for me was (as I recall) that only 8% of the body parts were recovered, and one of our colleagues indicated that several of the photos seemed to be of the same parts, however all but four of the persons aboard were identified out of what had to be like human confetti.

Please forgive this uneducated question, but is it the norm for bodies to be essentially blown apart by aircraft accidents, even the most extreme?

What about the bodies recoverd from the low-fare airline that had a plane crash vertically at full speed into a swamp several years ago due to an explosion of oxygen containers? We're they "recovered" in the same state?

Please forgive this uneducated question, but is it the norm for bodies to be essentially blown apart by aircraft accidents, even the most extreme?

What about the bodies recoverd from the low-fare airline that had a plane crash vertically at full speed into a swamp several years ago due to an explosion of oxygen containers? We're they "recovered" in the same state?

It occurred to me that one reason for claiming extreme speeds for Flt 93 and 77 is to make it possible to argue that the aircraft and contents were pulverized to a degree not usually seen in this kind of crash. From the Pentagon accounts, several alleged that the engines sounded like they were essentially at idle until the aircraft leveled out below the navy annex. Experienced accident investigators would be the ones to address this. As with the buildings, the official argument maintains that previous failures to collapse are not relevant because these fires were so much hotter, given that these were fed with "Jet Fuel" (ooooooooh). That argument is absurd to anyone familiar with the properties of kerosene, who also realize that the fuel not consumed in the initial fireball, would have quickly burned out leaving only an office-furnishing-fueled conflagration. Wally made reference to 520 mph for the impact speed. That seems unlikely.

How on earth is Wally supposed to know what attitude the aircraft was in?

the fbi told him.

QUOTE

Was he there for the accident?

sure wasn't. but he gets real shook up when you put the words shot and down together. definitely 'doesn't want to talk about that'.....lol

QUOTE

I found his narrative and body language to be dishonest. And I would like to know how, if body parts were found, there was no baggage scattered about?

considering the passengers of this plane boarded from the tarmac and the hijackers managed to get at least 1 gun on board are you open to the possibility that the plane really did have some sort of bomb already on board and that the reason this plane was shot down was because the passengers did make airphone calls and found out what was happening and a successful rebellion on that plane would have exposed the entire operation before noon that day?