Honestly, BMORG should've banned your ass and the rest of the idiots that did your commercial camp !! Banned forever !! You have the nerve coming on here trying to compare your FAILED camp to others that have succeeded. Jealous much ?? You're probably one of those people selling tix on ebay as well, you know, for massive profits. It sounds like BM isn't for you.

I think the OP has somewhat of a point. If musicians sell their music for profit in the default world, then their art effectively becomes a consumer product, and their band name is really their brand name. Under such brand names, merchandise gets sold, like recorded music, t-shirts, stickers, or just about any product a logo can be applied to. And an industry standard method of promoting a music brand is live performance.

There was one pretty big name on the playa last year. Ken Jordan and Scott Kirkland are two artists who sell and promote their music and other merchandise under the brand name The Crystal Method. So, when they played for free at Burning Man last year, a likely benefit for them was promotion of the Crystal Method brand. But let's look a the differences from the Monster fiasco. Crystal Method was not passing out branded merchandise. The did not bring their gear in a big truck emblazoned with their logo. In fact, if someone who wasn't familiar with them happened to stumble across their performance, they would have had no way of knowing who they were, short of asking someone. I don't think BMORG has an issue with word-of-mouth promotion of any product, so long as it is an answer to an inquiry. (As in, "Hey I really like your tent. Who makes it? Where can I get one?")

So, I think it's not an issue of product distribution so much as packaging. Crystal Method distributed their product (their music) on the playa, but it was not wrapped in a CM branded package. If the OPs camp had distributed Monster beverages in plain, unmarked containers, and transported their gear in plain, unmarked trucks, they probably would have been ok with a Monster sponsorship. Of course, I can't imagine such a deal would have ever been struck, and perhaps that, right there, is the key difference.

I just want to add something to this to give whatever 'Big Name DJs' some proportion and what it means to me, being British and 53 years old. Although I love music and have DJ'd big parties as a amateur in my past, I know fuck about any of the DJs performing at BM, don't recognise any names what-so-ever, I am just going for a good time and if I come across some good music I will dance. What more is there?

Raymaker wrote:I just want to add something to this to give whatever 'Big Name DJs' some proportion and what it means to me, being British and 53 years old. Although I love music and have DJ'd big parties as a amateur in my past, I know fuck about any of the DJs performing at BM, don't recognise any names what-so-ever, I am just going for a good time and if I come across some good music I will dance. What more is there?

That's it, that's all there is to it. Walk and explore. It won't be long before something draws you in. Names don't matter much, it's all about what you hear.. Good music? Oh yeah, it'll find YOU!

I think I know of maybe 1 DJ on the whole list of people there.. maybe its because I'm British too, and the last time I went to a party accross the pond was in Detroit last year.. I've never even set foot on the west coast ... so I'm just looking forward to bimbling around and if I get drawn in to a particular sound... then I'll do it, otherwise, I'll just go elsewhere!

true above... I've been a Crystal Method fan from waaay back, still have some of their white-labels (vinyl records) and was biking by Nexus I think it was when I heard some good chunes. I parked the bike for a spell, grooved with the crowd and headed off later to Center Camp. Months later somebody told me C.M. was at Burning man and I said, "Nah." then they showed me proof. Point being, I had no idea who was DJ'ing, and didn't much care---I realize a lot of people check the lineup and this year I might also, but me and a thousand others had no idea C.M. was taking stage. Sure one could argue that it brings or sells more tickets to Burning man if people know big name DJs are coming, but I don't care, bring the crowd. Now if I saw a big logo like Coke or Jagermeister or something then I'd think, 'Okay, this event is a sellout to the market hype' I'd still check it out, but it wouldn't be Burning man as we know it, it'd be drained of the freedom from advertising.

Raymaker wrote:I just want to add something to this to give whatever 'Big Name DJs' some proportion and what it means to me, being British and 53 years old. Although I love music and have DJ'd big parties as a amateur in my past, I know fuck about any of the DJs performing at BM, don't recognise any names what-so-ever, I am just going for a good time and if I come across some good music I will dance. What more is there?

hear, hear

I love Oakenfold. I missed him at my virgin Burn, but I danced to lots of other Really Cool music. I didn't find out till Sunday that he'd even played at all. "You'll never see it all so enjoy what you do." - that's what I learned that year, among other things __But, then, I don't go to Burning Man for the dj's, and that will never be a determining factor for me.

Im not a big sound camp fan much but For the record, the guys in EOTO, at least one of them, found their love of electronic music AT Burning Man. Their creation is a direct inspiration. And without an audience, there isn't much.. If NOBODY spectated at Burning Man, who would the artists show off their shit to? Or maybe some of the people in that IM crowd worked their asses off all day and now want to dance and relax? Sure there are plenty of tards that go to BMan just to rave out, but in all fairness....

This year was my first ever Burn. Now, I'm a HUGE fan of electronic dance music and when I saw the BM line-up I was ecstatic. It was totally amazing! I knew who I wanted to see play every day and night. Out of all of those artists, guess how many I made it to? One. And I didn't care, becuase no matter where I was or what I was doing, I was enjoying myself. I was in heaven. Whether there was dance music playing or not, whether I was dancing or not, I was simply happy to be at Burning Man with so many wonderful people, with so many beautiful things to see, hear and experience. I can't wait until next year!

Is it just me, or does it seem like all of the Large Scale sound camps these days all the same list of DJs just swapping domes?Its like a big WHOMP fest out there, like Symbiosis or Lightning in a Bottle festivals, the whole 2 "boulevards"

Didnt Root Society have some different kinds of acts than the norm has become? A little more all over the map?Educate me.

Sometimes it feels like one big camp all of 2 and 10 sometimes.

Some of those acts are really really talented. Dont get me wrong. And if I want it to change I must be the change, yaddidy ya ya. It just feels good that not EVERYONE is completely devoted and in love with it....Its SOOOOO popular right now all over the west coast it is not surprising. Check out my location. We have been invaded by the Cool Dubsteppy Tribal Hippies here in town So many festivals that highlight the same acts, too. They are a big community. Like I said there is some good stuff in there, dont get me wrong....Im just venting. Im a music lover.

I just want to take a moment to appreicate all of the DJs at Burning Man who do NOT fit into this category. When I started coming to Bman (way back in 05 brah!) I was introduced to all of the psy trance, house, techno, all the other stuff.....All of the poppy remixes, all of the retro stuff, the pallete of EVERYTHING (well almost)

It still rules my burn as much as I adore David Starfire and the likes. I still would rather hear the Ride like the Wind Michael Mind Cristopher Cross remix. hahahahahahahaa

I think some people come to Burning Man JUSt to see some of those really cool DJs on the edges. I know someone who came to bman JUST to see Opiuos sets and then he left. More power to him but like the gentleman said above, I wanted to see a couple of acts out there but only made it to Infected mushroom. I also made it to Beats Antique at Hookahdome but the crowd was so unbearable and unfriendly it killed my buzz so I rode off into the night to hang out by art and disco by dorky art car techno! SO FUN

First, Symbiosis & LiB actually come from/out of Burning Man (and hey, this year they both worked together with other amazing folks to create FractalNation Village), so there's bound to be a lot of similarity. They work really hard to try and 'take it off the playa' as the mantra goes, and try and create amazing atmospheres and environments in the default world. In addition to the DJ's, there were quite a few additional performers, and at a few places there were even talks & discussions held during the day.

As for same artist/performer on everyone's sound systems, no that's not the case either. If you pay attention as you stroll (or pedal) past, you'd find a wide range of genres (even though it's fun to bitch about it all being dubstep). Some of the camps were focused on specific genres, while others played a wider range. There seemed to be more camps playing trance again than in years past, plus both Disorient and Opulent Temple had entire nights devoted to the genre. A few places still seemed to care about breaks, techno/minimal still had a presence and there was a more diverse showing of 'world' music...but overall house (in all its forms) and dubstep seemed to be most prevalent among the big camps at 2:00 & 10:00. As a rule, the artist is likely only going to have a shot at playing at a camp that's rocking a similar genre to what he/she plays. I'll take Freq Nasty for example since I know him and know where he played - and it wasn't on every big system on the dial. You didn't hear him at Opulent Temple (they don't do dubstep/drumstep, and Darin's been exploring a lot of those sounds lately), and you didn't hear him at the places doing trance, techno, or minimal.

If a performer's well known (either through record sales or from gigs in the area the camp is from), chances are good that they'll get invited to play. And of course if the performer's helped out with fundraising (playing free back in the default world), that also increases their chances they'll get invited. If you were bringing out a sound system, wouldn't you want to have the people you like the most ("holy crap, I can't believe ____ played on our system!") and the people who helped you out come play on it? DJ's & producers want to play, and so hell yeah they'll probably take someone up on the invitation if they can make the schedule work. Then each camp does their own juggling act. Occasionally you get a few pairings that end up being popular throughout the week, either because the performers are friends and requesting to play before/after someone or logistics, but if you actually go out there and look (as well as listen), there's some pretty diverse stuff going on.

To me, it seemed there was quite an abundance of the pop song remix going on (mostly on moderately sized art cars and mid-sized sound systems), and as with dubstep it was easy enough to tune out or just keep walking for a few minutes until you picked up on something else coming from the next sound source.

FWIW.. this year I spent literally maybe 30 mins combined at any of the city based sound camps. The rest of the music time was spent on the playa at one of the killer art car mobile sound camps. Infinitely better environment and music IMHO

Robot Heart has my heart and soul. That.. my friends.. is the place.. to be..

I spent a lot less time at the big sound camps this year as well (it was just that kind of year for me). But I did spend some time exploring, and took the time to eyeball the lineups as well as chat with a few friends who were rocking said systems throughout the week. Mobile is a LOT of fun, and there were certainly some great mutant vehicles out there this year.

products are apples. you buy an infected mushroom CD because you heard them at burning man. you buy a monster energy drink because you drank it at burning man. apples.

the orange is the one brings in ticket sales, and the other doesn't (call it a pear). you're a fan of infected mushroom, you're more likely to buy a ticket to BM. you're a fan of monster energy drink, so what? does bmorg profit? no = kicked off esplanade.

If that is the case then nothing should be taken in."hey i like your coleman tent" person goes out and buys one

"Omg this hummus by so and so is amazing" person goes out and buys some

Did any thought occur that MAYBE these guys just really wanted to play her cause they love there jobs and wanted to see what burning man was about?

How about artists. Do they not bring there art maybe to put them self out there to get noticed?Maybe have a burner buy some art after BM?

I really doubt people would spend 300 bucks to see a dj and camp for a week they can go to a show for $40 outside the playa. They are going for the BM exsperance.

maladroit- Burning Man is like a second job, except you pay to work there.Burning Man is just the pre party for exodus! - fellow burner during exodus

Simon of the Playa wrote:just to set the record straight, Root Society was All Polka, All The Time.

Shit.

You know how you head out for the playa & you know there's something you forgot and you can't remember what it is; and by the time you get back to real life you've forgotten that you had even forgotten something until someone says something that reminds you. This would be the something that reminds me.

*sigh*

It's probably for the best I only bought a couple of polka CD's for this year...

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

I agree with what's being said, but do have to take exception to this...

tattoogoddess wrote:I really doubt people would spend 300 bucks to see a dj and camp for a week they can go to a show for $40 outside the playa.

I think you're off a bit there (easy to do, since you haven't yet been). Sure, a single night out at a typical club might have a $20 cover, or if you see a nationally touring act at a name brand venue it'll set you back $40, but that's the tiniest fraction of what's on the bill. 3-day music festivals easily charge $200-$300 for tickets, and IMO often delivery much weaker lineups than you'll find at a dozen different places in BRC on every night of the event. And that doesn't even take into consideration that the gigs played on the playa are often head and shoulders above their best performance in defaultia (combination of performer being amped/excited for the show, plus feeding off an epic crowd energy). You'll see

trilobyte wrote:Crazy - I'd known there was drama, but hadn't ever heard the particulars.

If any of those DJ's arranged to have a vehicle roll up touting the name of an album or promoting the management company, I would expect the camps involved would meet the same fate. They don't, that's an important part of how it's different. Being a well-known person, artist, or band isn't itself an issue.

The DJ's (or performance troupes or insert artist name here) who connects with big camps on and off the playa are giving of their time and participating in the experience. Their involvement in fundraising is, again, to give of their time as an individual. It's not to bankroll camps in exchange for product placement and blatant brand advertising.

all kidding aside, Root Society and those other guys bring WORLD CLASS TALENT to the playa, the reason they are there?

it aint money....nobody gets paid, nobody gets rich, just the opposite....you have a small army of professionals who VOLUNTEER their time and knowledge, and the DJ's are people too, THEY FUCKING LOVE LOVE LOVE BURNING MAN...

whats not to love?

we do it because we love it....period...the end.

it aint about the money or the brand or the logo, and those things DO EXIST in defaultia, im not going to piss on your boots and tell you it's raining, but for one week, one week in the desert, all of that shit goes away....Love the Music, Hate the Business, but techies, lighting guys, sound guys, and yes, DJ's and Promoters gotta eat too...

i'm glad that those with means SPEND IT ON SHIT FOR YOU TO ENJOY ON THE PLAYA....

they could be elsewhere, spending it on Prada shoes.....instead they support artists, engineers, and MAKERS.

more power to them....and Scott and Ken (yeah, i'm dropping names) Had a BLAST in 2010, their first time out, they were blown away...

whats not to be blown away by?

trilo is so right, this is NOT A GODDAMN CONCERT, this is burningman, and words would fail miserably if i tried to describe just what that is, because it is so personal, fluid, and subjective vs. the "common experience" of a spectators point of view.

so, in conclusion, if i was a DJ, i would give my left nut to play at burningman.