The shooting in Orlando – a few very basic thoughts

Frankly, I did not feel like commenting on this shooting. Primarily, because I don’t believe that this event deserves the reaction it got. Yes, sure, 50-100+ innocent people were shot/hurt, but that is more or less what happens on a daily basis in so many locations of our planet that I don’t see how the Orlando shooting would deserve some special attention (for example, just four days ago 19 Yazidi ladies were burned alive to death in a cage by Daesh for refusing to have sex with Daesh fighters). But then I got a ton of emails about that. And, besides, since the homosexual lobby in the USA demands special protection for homosexuals, the massacre in Orlando is a big deal because it is a perfect illustration of how our masters want us to react.

Homosexuals: “good” victims deserving sympathy

Check out this BBC article: “In pictures: LGBT parades across Europe“. So “gay” pride is, apparently, a big deal to our rulers. Which makes the massacre in Orlando a big deal too. Clearly the powers that be are intensely preoccupied with the well-being and safety of homosexuals. Fair enough.

But then, at the very least, let’s make darn sure that we keep in mind what this massacre has no relationship to:

1) Homosexuality. Yes, the club where the massacre happened was known to be “gay friendly” and the presumed shooter apparently wanted to kill homosexuals. But so what? If he has chosen any other group, vegans, or Latinos, or soccer players or diabetics, this would really made no difference to the nature of the massacre or for the evaluation of the character of the shooter. Innocent blood is innocent blood. There are not subcategories for this.

2) Islam. Yes, the shooter apparently call 911 to declare his allegiance to Daesh and Daesh has, according to reports, claimed responsibility for the massacre. So what? Anybody can claim responsibility for anything, including the Garden Gnome Liberation Front. I would even argue that Daesh has nothing to do with Islam either because Daesh’s relationship to Islam is similar that of a tumor to a healthy tissue: a lot of common DNA, for sure, but with some absolutely crucial differences which makes them mortal enemies.

The AR-15: the cause of all evil

3) Guns. Turns out that the supposed perpetrator did have a legal firearm license. But he should not have had it. He was known to be a wife beater and he was reportedly mentally unstable. Under Florida law, both of these conditions should have resulted in his firearms license been revoked. In other words, even if this shooter purchased his guns legally, his license should have been revoked. When an alcoholic continues to drive around in his car and ends up killing somebody, does anybody suggest that cars are to blame? Of course not. And yet in the case of mass shootings guns are inevitably blamed for the violence. So what is the political agenda here?

So if this is not about homosexuality, Islam or guns, what is it about?

It is about making us believe that is is about homosexuality, Islam and guns, of course!

Yazidi ladies: “bad” victims who do not deserve sympathy

Whether this is just a prefect opportunity or the latest in an apparently endless series of false flags does not really matter. What is certain is that the Empire and its propaganda machine are making maximal use of this event to convince us that homosexuals deserve our heartfelt sympathy and that they need some kind of special protection and that guns and Islam are truly awful things. Does that sound incredibly stupid to you?

And then there is the upcoming election. Sure, Trump comes across as more anti-Muslim than Hillary. But Hillary is a rabid gun hater, and she is backed by Obama. Besides, last year there has been a long string of mass shooting which were not only rather bizarre, but which were used by the 1%ers to try to blame violence on guns and disarm law-abiding citizens. Does this latest shooting not just look *perfect* for the Obama administration?

Islam: the other cause of all evil

We will probably never find out if Omar Mir Seddique Mateen was just a a “lone wolf” with some real sympathies for Daesh, whether he truly was an isolated psychopath, or whether he was lovingly nurtured by one of the other US 3 letter agencies and then carefully planted at the right time and place (he was a “person of interest” for the FBI).

The worst lie of them all is the one that is implied: if we get rid of all guns and if we get rid of all Muslims, then we will be much safer. That is utter nonsense. Not only because guns and Muslims are not the problem, but because it is simply impossible to be safe! There have always been terrorist attack, and there will always be. Today it was a Muslim with a gun. Yesterday it was a Japanese with sarin gas. Tomorrow it could be anybody anywhere, armed to the teeth by illegally purchased guns (like in the Charlie Hebdo attack – the French total ban on guns did not help one bit) or armed with a far more deadly weapon (say a common pathogen like E.coli, a legally available toxic agent like Cyanide or even a Water Hemlock extract to poison, say, a school’s cafeteria). Explosives are very easy to manufacture and can be delivered anywhere a car can drive. In terms of terrorism – where there is a will, there will be a means.

The Pulse: the club where it all happened

One more thing about guns: not only are homosexuals usually known to be easy victims (this is the reason why cowards love to attack them – they usually don’t fight back), but under Florida law it is illegal to bring a firearm into bar. So bar, just as schools, are legal “gun free zones” which makes them ideal for mass shootings and makes it possible for one single shooter to shoot 50 or more people. In Florida, these “gun free zones” are pretty much the only places where you can hope to shoot a lot of people safely, everywhere else the chances of somebody shooting right back at you are rather high as there are no less than 1,477,675 people legally licensed to carry a weapon in Florida (the highest figure in the USA). Concealed weapon carriers include all races, all age groups, males and females from any and all social groups. This is why it has become rather dangerous to start shooting people in Florida, because chances are somebody nearby will shoot right back at you. That is a paradox – “gun free zones” have turned into honeypots for all sorts of mass shooters. That is also something the imperial media will never tell you.

Do you really think that he cares?

By definition, terrorism is about terror. About fear. About emotions. Those who use terrorism want us to freak out, to lose our ability to think logically. They want us to listen to our emotions, and only some of our emotions. So each time some atrocity occurs and the imperial propaganda machine starts to hammer us with ‘special news flashes’ you know that they are trying to freak you out. Don’t let them do this to you. Don’t let them disconnect your brain. This latest atrocity in Orlando proves absolutely nothing and it only means something if you are willing to give it a meaning. I categorically refuse to do so. For me, 50+ innocent people died yesterday, and that is simply disgusting. But it is also meaningless. To “respond” to that pseudo-event with any kind of “policy” is the pinnacle of stupidity and hypocrisy.

Our resistance has to be first and foremost a resistance for our minds and souls. We have to think and react as we do, not as “they” want us to. If we pay attention to their non-events, then we will miss our real events, especially our victories over them! And, make no mistake, they are getting weaker while we are getting stronger, even if their media says otherwise and if our victories are never reported.

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thank you, I did.
coincidentally, yesterday evening I drove by (on I4) less than half a kilometer away from the location of the shooting. True, that was around 2200 whereas the shooting took place 4 hours later, around 0200. But still, it was close enough to feel that it was “close” to me.
kind regards,
The Saker

“How is possible that patron carrying an assault rifle enter this premises with a number of security guards at entry door?”

Oh… I donno… from the top of my head I’ll say (and I do realize this is some kind of wild speculation coming straight out of the mind of a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist) wait for it…

…they got shot first!?

The venue has been reported to be as a ‘gun-free’ area. Even though the media is playing-down that fact, but oops, this leaked early yesterday, when most of the high-paid media presstitutes were enjoying their days-off on Sunday. ( [*] and in any case, gays are known as being traditionally Democrats, which in turn are dead-against the public owning guns in general, so it wouldn’t come as a big surprise if the bouncers themselves weren’t armed, as per the quite obviously liberal venue own rules. To be fair…)
Plus, now they’re saying it’ll take for-eh-ver to identify the dead victims because they weren’t carrying ID’s with them. Hence; we can’t know if the bouncers/security-guards were amongst the dead victims.

Smart money says they were. But hey! What do I know? I’m just a dumb conspiracy theorist.

That’s a fair point. G4S is well known (for years now) for cutting corners and not vetting people properly. Ok, but else is new? And I’m not excusing them, but most corporations, eager to hire cheap labor to save them cash are just equally bad. Didn’t we just hear a few weeks or so ago [when that Egyptian airliner went down in the Mediterranean, which we’re not hearing anything else about now, I wonder why…] that hiring at airports in France leaves a lot to be desired? Reports showing that quite a lot extremists work in maximum-security areas at airports?

If anything, all of this sounds like greedy unbridled Capitalism meets crazy jihadists at the detriment of anybody else stuck in between the two.

Lovely!

Oh! But because of past events, we’re all been ‘trained’ to see dodgy conspiracies (or false-flags) everywhere, when sometimes the most simple explanation might fit the bill just as well.

This really is an excellent summary of the situation. There will be many who do not follow The Saker in all his analysis. I believe that the dissemination of imperialist ideology and propaganda is slightly more complex than is suggested here, but that is of very little account.
The broad brushstrokes here are absolutely accurate: this is exactly what this attack in Orlando, in a world in which the massacre of fifty pedestrians in Baghdad or Aleppo would not even make the news, means.
Ever since 9/11 I have believed that the new political situation is one in which the ancient (Paris 1790) spectrum of left and right is not only no longer useful but positively prevents the fruition of genuine, spontaneous popular reaction to the steady escalation of a new form of corporatist totalitarianism. It has struck me that the growth and sudden popularity of avowed atheism, for example, indicates a feeling amongst the political elites that all forms of morality and all ethical codes are a danger to their projects.
These are, obviously questions far too big to be explored in a blog, still less in the comments on one, but I mention them because I urge all honest people, whatever they are inclined to think themselves-socialists, christians, democrats, muslims…the list is, happily, very long- to put aside the old ideological spectacles from a world which no longer exists and judge matters for themselves by informing themselves as well as they can.
Here, for example, is an analysis just as prescient as this one of The Saker’s, and really making very similar common sense and honest arguments from the orthodox Trotskyist World Socialist Website. It makes a few points that can be accepted or rejected-as to the best response to the matter- but that is unimportant. It deals with The Stanford Rape case which is another current cause celebre tied into the idiocies of Identity Politics.
I recommend it to all, http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2016/06/11/stan-j11.html
just as I recommend this article and this site to all with a sincere commitment to a future in which the great bulk of humanity are not herded ilke mesmerised cattle into accepting the rule of the amoral and greedy cynics who form the ‘elites.’

How can one carry two fire arms shoot upwards of 250+ plus rounds of bullets. Report say a shoot-out first with police outside. Then he went inside…. did they not follow him? and why. Then he killed and injured 150 more people 50 +killed 100+injured. Then he had a protracted shoot-out with swat… Does not make any sense. How long does it take to reload and how many bullets would he have to carry. Sounds like a another Pasty. Sounds more like intelligence Professionals, more laws coming.

Easy. While 20 round magazines are common for the AR, 30 round mags are readily available. 8 of the higher capacity mags is 240. Eight and then some will fit in a small duffel bag. Mag changes are one of the countless small things that are practiced endlessly by those in harness, so much so for the entire list that one can change a mag, clear a jam, etc etc, at 01:00 in a pitch black howling hurricane and get it done right the first time. When Brand X is in the wire you don’t get a second chance.

Anonymous, It appears to have been a complete hoax. Contradictory elements are there to engage the little gray cells in determining whether A or B is true, thus forgetting to ask if it happened at all, or even if the shooter exists.

Orlando was similar, w the house in Port Lucie being on a strategic waterway which bisects Florida East to West, permitting ships to take a shortcut. During the 3-4 hours while police “waited for a search warrant” they were actually carrying out their drill to protect the oligarch’s infrastructure, rail, linking highways, and assets (warehouses, containers, etc.), just like in San B between the “shooting” and the “chase.”

Also downtown Tampa had an active shooter drill in February; but Port Tampa Bay had an entire convention w international players about the assets there– largest container port in Florida. Here’s a paragraph about how they describe themselves:

“Florida is 3d most populous state w 20 mil+. The Tampa Bay/Orlando I-4 corridor has the 10th largest economy in the U.S. with a GDP of more than $300 billion. Major industry clusters include food and beverage, citrus and juice products, furniture, general department store merchandise, steel, fertilizer, animal feed and agricultural products. Florida is the leading state for merchandise exports to Latin America and the Caribbean, responsible for 36% of all U.S. exports to the region. Asia is the top source of Florida’s merchandise imports.”

There are 2 “sacred” groups in the zionazified “west” right now. Jews and homosexuals. The reason for Jews being special in the propaganda machine is obvious, but that of homosexuals is not so obvious. Unless one realises that bum banditry among the parasite class is part of their defective social/mental state where personal greed and the desire to exploit others is paramount. I would be surprised if any of the rulers in the west were not bum bandits.

It is an open secret in the United States that the percentage of homosexuals among Jews is considerably higher than among non-Jews. About reasons for this, one can speculate, some claim that it is due to upbringing, some claim due to genetic factors. Since the “advent” of AIDS the fact has become well known to personnel of every major hospital and health center in the U.S.A., while not mentionable publicly (at the peril of losing one’s job or being sued).

Do you have any back-up for that “common knowledge”. I’d say of all the ,granted limited,number of homosexuals I’ve met in my life.Few if any of them were Jewish.While on the other hand. the also limited,number of Jews that I know.Not a one that I can think of is homosexual. I’m not saying there aren’t Jewish homosexuals,certainly there are. But that is not a mark of “Jewishness” by any means, as you seem to imply.

I do not have a formal statistical study to present, but this is a well known fact among us health workers in a major metropolitan area in NE where I live. Once again, if one goes across ethnicities, it is discernible that the percentage, i.e., fraction of homosexuals within the Jewish group is much higher than within any other particular ethnic group. Since the percentage of Jews in the total population is small (about 5% in the US), the percentage of Jews among homosexuals ought to be very, very small, but is still conspicuous nevertheless.

@Saker. There’s creeping ‘anything goes’ legislation emerging throughout the Western hemisphere that reflects the sexual desires of the Empire’s rulers. Last week Canada made bestiality legal as long as no penetration takes place. Perversely the actual Supreme Court ruling appellant is Her Majesty the Queen versus the respondent who apparently cannot be named. Nice little birthday present for you and your tribe ma’am.

“There are 2 “sacred” groups in the zionazified “west” right now. Jews and homosexuals.”

First: I’m seconding Uncle Bob’s comment here, regarding this Anon II comment [Quote]: “It is an open secret in the United States that the percentage of homosexuals among Jews is considerably higher than among non-Jews.”

But more importantly…

Let me burst that stupid bubble of yours [1rst Anon] right now. While, yes, Jews are and have been thee most ‘protected species’ in the West. In Europe at least, the ultimate protected spices [by the ‘elites’] right now are the Muslims.

Not blacks, not Jews [pending], not gays, not women (or even children for that matter) not Muslim women either, because… duh!… they’ve quite clearly chose the wrong gender to be born in into, and therefore they’re irrelevant.

You just wait, sooner or later, the Jews will get hit soon, and then just sit and watch the MSM [and the alternative media too] trying to do some impossible mental gymnastics in order to excuse the rather obvious culprits (the very ones you’re not supposed to name, unless you want to be accused of being ‘racist,’ that is…).

BTW, this has already been happening for some time now… attacks from Islamic extremist defacing Synagogues and Jewish-Owned stores have been happening all over Europe already, but of course! You won’t hear about it on CNN, NSBC, BBC, or even Fox News and/or RT for that matter…

-TL2Q

PS: Oh, and just by saying the above, it probably renders me as a closet-Zionist, or a closet-antisemite…
Never mind that those two terms are mutually exclusive, or in other words: Never Mind the Bo**ocks – once again! I’m so very sorry; I meant to say: Never Mind the Cognitive Dissonance: it all depends on what flavor of ‘free-speech’ you favor, or somethin’ … :/

First you quoted something written by myself and then endorsed another comment by UB directed at a troll who piggy-backed on my comment with some nonsense about Jews being gay, and did so in such a way as to duplitiously and falsely imply I was claiming Jews were more gay than others. That is dishonest, to put it very mildly. Then you wrote this laughably pathetic zionazi bigoted toss:

“Let me burst that stupid bubble of yours [1rst Anon] right now. While, yes, Jews are and have been thee most ‘protected species’ in the West. In Europe at least, the ultimate protected spices [by the ‘elites’] right now are the Muslims.”

You were also one the je sui charlie trolls pushing anti-Muslim prejudice after your people did their charlie hebdo falseflag.

“renders me as a closet-Zionist”

Closet?

:D

With your resort to the standard zionazi/nazi bag of web spamming tricks, it’s rather obvious. Your attempt to pre-empt criticism there being another of the cheesy web tactics you lot are very well known for.

@ Anon ‘X’ (and I’m sorry – but I’m not sorry. If you can’t think of a name for yourself, that’s hardly my fault, is it?)

“Your attempt to pre-empt criticism there being another of the cheesy web tactics you lot are very well known for.AC”

Critize away… See if I care *eye-roll*
…At this point in my life I’m way too old and way to used to it anyways to even notice. What you called: “Your attempt to pre-empt criticism,” is what I call: I’m letting you folks know in advance – particularly those who take issue with what I’ve just said – that you’ll be ignored, because, I’ve heard most of all this nonsense and your so-called arguments before [like a million times!] and I know where it leads… absolutely nowhere!

You have your red lines. I have mine (Welcome to the real world, btw, where people don’t always agree on everything)
Just like the Russians do feel understandably twitchy when NATO is encroaching on their borders. I trust you do know what this ‘crazy’ and oh-so very human phenomenon of not wanting to be too close to your enemy and/or other people is called (?)

This is what is usually referred to as; personal boundaries. No? Never heard of it? I didn’t think so…

So, we disagree! Big freaking deal! Grow-up already. Plenty of people disagree with each other all time (have you ever heard two fans of rival sports-teams arguing with each other? Same thing, Jack!).

Not everybody is happy to be bullied and/or give-in to peer pressure into toeing the ‘accepted’ line, nor anybody is happy to go along with what the majority [or even protected minorities] deem to be right or wrong.

I think you might be a troll, no offense. heck, I might be a troll. If you are an actual person, you might try to get a hold of Tarpley’s unauthorized biography of George (H.W.) Bush. For the idea of the sacred, I have benefited from Girard’s books (I see Satan fall like lightning, violence and the sacred, etc.), but I have come to temper this viewpoint with the works of Agamben. I am just an interested layperson, neither clergy nor scholar. Anyhow your post reminded me of a book I once read, not any of the ones mentioned, that I have hidden in drawer and not on a bookshelf.

The shooter was not just a radical Islamist. He was foremost a racist, and a homophobe. He hated black people and he hated homosexuals, and told a co-worker on numerous occasions that everyone in those two groups should be killed.

How did this happen? Where does such virulent, irrational hatred come from?
I have the answer, and you won’t like it.

Everybody here who has been whipping up hatred toward everyone who is different from them, including everyone who uses the word “gay” as a pejorative, or the sneeringly hateful, bigoted term “bum bandit, bears some degree of responsibility for this atrocity.

Oh I know, you will screech your frantic, self-righteous denials to the rooftops, as you always do, but you cannot run away from the truth. Your bigoted behavior is what creates homophobes. No one is born a homophobe, homophobes are recruited through the drumbeat of hate speech from other homophobes.

The hatred that gets trumpeted from web sites like this, that encourage and facilitate such hateful speech, caused the tragedy in Orlando. Any of you who persist in these atrocious behaviours after today are simply reprehensible.

I won’t comment on whether this was a “false flag” or not. I don’t know and probably never will,though I doubt it was. But what I will comment on was who benefits from it,intentionally or not. On first glance I’d say both Trump and Clinton benefit. But looking closer ,Clinton clearly benefits more. Trump could benefit,saying,”Muslims are bringing terrorism into the country”,and some might support him more because of that. But Clinton gets a whole range of benefits from this. She’s a neo-con,so she can gain from the anti-Muslim groups as well.She’s pro-gay,so she’ll gain from outrage by that community,she’s anti-gun,so this helps her with those people. And most importantly,she gets to blame Trump for “causing hate” to stir violence. Yes,no one gains from this like Clinton.

Someone from Orlando has just posted on FB that there were two more shooters, and many people saw them. Gunmen are at large now, and the Police refuse to say anything about them. People in Orlando are angry about the Police suppressing information.

I just saw a news item saying that the FBI has “no knowledge” of another/other shooter(s). There are a lot of things which make no sense to me.

1) the ratio of 50 killed to 50 wounded. Hug? that is a very high ratio of killed to wounded, normally it would be waaay lower (less killed, more wounded)
2) do we know how many people were actually killed by the gunman and how many by the SWAT & Police forces?
3) how did one guy manage to fight off 100+ clients in a pretty tight space? could they not simply rush him. Normally, unless he had hand grenades he should never have been able to massacre such a large crowd.
4) How did he reload? Why was he not rushed while reloading
5) the FBI admitted that he was a person of interest. And yet he clearly obtained his guns by lying on his application (a history of violence, including domestic, and mental issues preclude you from applying for the purchase of a gun in Florida).
6) did the Pulse not have its own security? No even a bouncer? If yes, where was/were he/they?
7) Finally – by US Federal Law, you cannot purchase a full-auto weapon on the USA. So his AR-15 was semi-auto. Who trained this guy to shoot like he did?

There might be perfectly reasonable explanations for all that, but at this point in time this seems just bizarre.

But if this is true:
“Omar Mateen worked with private security group G4S Secure Solutions as a private security officer in Florida. The role requires 28 hours of classroom training by a licensed instructor.
Officials said he had two firearms licenses, a security officer license and a statewide firearms license, all expiring in September 2017.
A statement from G4S, the firm that managed security for the London Olympics in 2012, read:
“We are shocked and saddened by the tragic even that occurred at the Orlando nightclub.
“We can confirm that Omar Mateen had been employed with G4S since Sept 10 2007.
“We are cooperating fully with all law enforcement authorities, including the FBI, as they conduct their investigation.”
@http://www.dailyexaminer.com.au/news/nightclub-attack-shooter-omar-mateen-security-offi/3043750/

Perhaps when the public sees the CCTV footage from inside the nightclub we will have a better idea how things went down. The tort lawyers will want this video data as well to prepare the civil case that is coming against the: Pulse nightclub, G4S, etc.

You mentioned here, “The worst lie of them all is the one that is implied: if we get rid of all guns and if we get rid of all Muslims, then we will be much safer.”

Actually if we got rid of the NWO politicians, bureaucrats and Pentagon chiefs we will be much safer. :)

Inside witness was on ABC News earlier, talking about another man inside, holding the doors closed so no one could get out. He was immediately cut off. Some are saying there were 2 additional attackers.
Remember San Bernardino, and eye-witnesses reporting a definite 3rd gunman? How much more did you hear about that?
These are sounding like 3-man operational teams, and absolutely STINKS of Intel-Ops.

18 months ago you had condemned the Charlie Hebdo staff by basically saying, “they were asking for it”. Today it’s these vagueries like “powers that be”; followed by “this tragedy is meaningless”, capped with shifting the subject a straw-man “childhood sexual abuse and poverty are the real problems”. Why are you ignoring the pattern here?

“Yes, sure, 50-100+ innocent people were shot/hurt, but that is more or less what happens on a daily basis in so many locations of our planet that I don’t see how the Orlando shooting would deserve some special attention (for example, just four days ago 19 Yazidi ladies were burned alive to death in a cage by Daesh for refusing to have sex with Daesh fighters)”
OK? So basically where there’s Islamic cultures in other countries, there is even more barbaric brutality! How can you say that the deaths of people on another continent under a vastly different culture are of the same importance as those that took place in one’s own neighbourhood? There is a group comprised of most likely thousands of people in Orlando right now that are morning the loss of a loved one, and this is supposed to be of the same significance to Americans?

Innocent blood is innocent blood. Agreed. But here we have more than just blood. The Western world has decided that gay people have rights. Much of the Islamic world calls for the death of homosexuals, and when they start acting on these beliefs in events such as today’s, what we are witnessing is a clash of values. Islam is actively attacking these values that which the Western world has that distinguish itself from the rest of the world. This should be obvious to everyone by now.

“Yes, the shooter apparently call 911 to declare his allegiance to Daesh and Daesh has, according to reports, claimed responsibility for the massacre. So what? Anybody can claim responsibility for anything, including the Garden Gnome Liberation Front”
Why does it matter who claims it? The gunman himself proclaimed his allegiance to radical Islam!

“The worst lie of them all is the one that is implied: if we get rid of all guns and if we get rid of all Muslims, then we will be much safer. That is utter nonsense”
De facto official policy in Japan is “no Muslim immigrants”. It’s not a coincidence that a massive country like Japan has not been in the news for these types of attacks. Not very far away in South East Asia, however, Islamic populations have terrorist problems. So yeah, where there’s Islam, there’s violence.

“Our resistance has to be first and foremost a resistance for our minds and souls.”
What the heck does this even have to do with us? A foreign group has declared open violent conflict and we have to have introspective spiritual journey inside ourselves in order to fight it? This is just silly.

I would like to conclude with by bringing up a supremely important fact. Dr. Farrokh Sekaleshfar is a British Sheikh that has publicly called for the execution of homosexuals. About 6 weeks ago, he gave a speech at Husseini Islamic Center of Sanford, FL.

There is an extremely obvious common denominator here. It’s the set of beliefs called Islam, and the culture within which it influences.

I would dispute that the “Western World” has said anything like that. Western governments have. But vast numbers of “people” in the West don’t believe that (other than the same rights to protection from crime that others have). There are many in Christian countries that believe homosexuality is a sin. And some that it merits death. It isn’t just some Islamic countries that have laws against homosexuality alone. As to Japan,they don’t encourage immigration at all,from anyone.The few immigrants that they have had were mostly Korean. And many families that were there for hundreds of years haven’t been given Japanese citizenship.Its very easy when things like this happens to reinforce Islamophobia. But I can think just off of the top of my head about Christian terrorism in Ukraine.To use your type of terminology,since Ukrainian fascists are “Christian” then their terrorism in Donbass would be “Christian terrorism”. Even though most victims of that terrorism in Donbass or also Christian.And most victims of “Islamic terrorism” are fellow Muslims.

There is an extremely obvious common denominator here. It’s the set of beliefs called Islam, and the culture within which it influences.

Congrats! You are thinking exactly like the Empire wants you to. If you think that Islam has anything to do with this shooting – fine. I won’t bother arguing with you – enjoy your simplistic worldview.

Our resistance has to be first and foremost a resistance for our minds and souls.”
What the heck does this even have to do with us? A foreign group has declared open violent conflict and we have to have introspective spiritual journey inside ourselves in order to fight it? This is just silly.

Forget it. You are not equipped to understand any of that. Just forget it. It is not addressed to you.

Sorry, Anonymous but a thinking person who will admit ALL of the solid evidence into their brain has to agree with Saker in his determination that disputing your narrow view of the matter, unless you show signs of willingness to expand it, is nothing but a time and energy waster, except as a useful example of the mass brainwashing techniques of the Empire, and the defenses against those techniques, which you currently are illustrating a complete lack of. .

1)Do the populations that have Islam as their religion also have cultural weakenesses that can be profiled, manipulated and exploited? Absolutely. British Intelligence has been doing this for hundreds of years, first because of the geographical position of these muslim populations between Europe and the “crown jewel” of their Empire, India, and then doubly so, with the emergence of petroleum as the major strategic energy source of the planet.

2) Are the innocent Islamic populations that behave morally in the Muslim world the primary victims of the Al Queda, Al Nusrah, and Daesh crazies sponsored by wholly owned Anglo-American satrap, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia??? Absolutely. Do you show any signs of recognizing this fact? You tell me.

3) Are the innocent Islamic populations that behave morally in the Muslim world the ONLY victims of Saudi (and therefore British, and unfortunately American, as well in the current state of affairs) sponsored terror, whether committed by Wahhabi induced insanity or by professional killers using that story as a cover? No, they are not. Unless you are an Empire operative, you are also intended as a victim of all this manipulation and brainwashing conducted by the Empire. As is everyone reading this blog. Including the trolls and apologists for Empire, who are simply unconscious or do not care about much of anything except their next paycheck and brown-nosing their evil masters.

4) Will you wake up to the bigger picture? Probably not, but I am taking the time to post this reply so that a hundred or a thousand under some mind control, but slightly less than you are exhibiting, might begin to free their minds.

I can hardly believe my eyes.
Aside from this being a lazy and dismissive argument, it’s is demonstrably FALSE:
– When Hollywood aka the US Gov Department of Propaganda’s Golden Boy Ben Affleck is universally praised as a hero by the media for his indignant rant (“it’s gross! it’s racist!”) against Bill Maher’s so called Islamaphobia, it is quite obvious the “Empire” or whoever, is telling me to sympathize with Islam.
– When the mainstream media coordinates an all out assault on Donald Trump for simply refusing to allow Muslims to enter the country, it is obvious how the “powers that be” want me to think.
– When President Barack Obama goes up on television after the massacre yesterday and could not even bring himself to say the words Radical Islam out of political correctness, it is rather obvious how the overlords want me to think.
– When MSM outlets immediately shift the conversation from radical islam to gun ownership and white christians as the primary causes of yesterday’s massacre, it’s pretty damn obvious how they want me to think!

“enjoy your simplistic worldview”
I’ve actually spent hours upon hours poring over philosophy, evidence, and data before reaching this conclusion after previously being an islamic apologist like many people here, so please don’t insult my intelligence with that phrase.
Unfortunately I have to turn this around on you. You have publicly shown your dismay for homosexuality. Fine, that is your own personal belief and you are entitled to it. But I fear that your personal beliefs combined with the fact that you are a man of faith may be clouding your judgement on this topic. Saker, you have an incredible capacity for analytical thinking, arguing a position, alternative world views, finding evidence, and anti-political correctness. That is part of what originally brought me to your blog. But it is completely devoid on the topic of Islam.

@Uncle Bob 1

“(other than the same rights to protection from crime that others have)”
That’s the entire difference! You can’t just brush that away with “other than”.

“There are many in Christian countries that believe homosexuality is a sin. And some that it merits death.
Notice how your knee-jerk reaction is to immediately shift the topic to Christians? It doesn’t matter in the slightest what their beliefs are because Christians aren’t the ones throwing them off the roofs of buildings for a sexual act taking place in their own homes. Christian countries are for the most part the safest places in the world for gay people. Notice how your knee-jerk reaction is to immediately shift the topic to Christians?

“And most victims of “Islamic terrorism” are fellow Muslims.”
I never understand how this is somehow used as an argument. All you’re saying is that Muslims cannot even get along with themselves! Sunnis vs Shia, girls getting stoned to death for being raped, apostates/homosexuals/atheists punishable by death. Not every hard to get slaughtered in the Middle East is it?

@Both of you

I also notice how both of you failed to comment on what I said about that reprehensible individual Sheikh Farrokh Sekaleshfar. For me, this is really the point finale. Self proclaimed Muslim scholar who has openly called for the death of homosexuals comes to Orlando, and six weeks later 50 gays are dead. Open your eyes.

“Project Monarch is a US Defense Department code name assigned to a subsection of the Central Intelligence Agency’s Operation Artichoke later become Project MK Ultra. Whereas Project Monarch was officially dedicated sometime in the early 1960’s by the US Army. Project Monarch is a genealogical approach to define transgenerational (via genetic psychology) behavioral modification through trauma based psychological mind control.”

that was in the 60’s …. they have perfected their art

ps: if you think a book (ie the koran ) is dangerous …. the system already succeeded in taking away your guns (also considered “dangerous” )

San Bernardino California. “Muslim” guy comes back from his lunch break and massacres everyone. Officials point to his social media accounts that prove he is affiliated with terrorist groups (ie DAESH) Operations happen to be taking place at the same time with FBI and other agents.

Always remember in these events, we only know what the media and authorities tell us, nothing more. There is no way to tell one way or the other, but just as others have said; who benefits.

It’s always about the wall of emotion and regular folks fall for it every time. I was catching the mainstream media and began to check the narrative:

The guy is American with Afghan parents.
CNN has Hamid Karzai live on the set, wow.
He purchased the arms legally. (bring on the anti-gun crowd)
He muttered something about the Boston Bombers.

This is the narrative being fed to the public. We will never know who this person truly is or the why, but we will have to accept what the official story says. Next thing they will find is an IS tee-shirt in his closet to seal the case..
I

I second this, although I haven’t even followed the “news”. It’s not a real event. It’s a staged and scripted event. Just another terror hoax, like the 11/13/15 Bataclan hoax. I’m basing this assumption on (a) Uncle Sam being a notorious liar, (b) folks in the US (but also most of Europe) being notorious sheeple, (c) the well publicized precedents for such terror hoaxes, and (d) one interview with a “victim’s mother” (the only “footage” I’ve seen) that sounded totally fake to me.

» Terrorism is really an illusion created by our rulers to blind us to our condition. Ignore it. «

Yes, ignore it – or rather, make an effort to understand how it is performed and how easily the sheeple can be fooled using television and newspapers. But then … you still believe in 9/11 airplanes …

^ This guy shows the carrying scene is taking the victim towards where the club Pulse is located. Also note the lack of ambulances, though there are police cars blocking off the block at either end so these crisis actor scenes can be filmed.

This critical thinking is the only hope there is in turning the tide against coordinated propaganda from the MSM et al.

Watch the most recent Marvels: Civil War and you can see the same damn script played out, albeit tweaked and repackaged.

The more Trump sings the song of angry response the more I see him as a Trump card to a cognizant public. Remember the story he quoted about the lady foolishly taking in the hurt snake? He’s becoming the snake we’re letting sneak in. Hillary is just the pre made easy to knock down foil. But I digress…

I am reluctant to see only ‘false flag’ operations in such acts, although I wouldn’t dismiss them either. But I wouldn’t be so categorical in dismissing any relation to religion (Islam, for that matter) and homosexuality. June is LGBT pride month after all.

“Washington: The Afghan-born father of Omar Mateen, the man police identified as the gunman who killed 50 people at a packed gay nightclub in Florida, hosted a political show on a US-based Afghan satellite channel that took a hard anti-Pakistan line.
In an interview with NBC News on Sunday, Seddique Mateen, also known as Mir Siddique, said his son’s rampage had “nothing to do with religion. He described an incident in downtown Miami in which his son saw two men kissing in front of his wife and child and he became very angry.”
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/orlando-shooters-dad-seddique-mateen-shocked-20160612-gphjrs.html#ixzz4BQtnfZHk

“According to Seddique Mateen, his son’s incomprehensible slaughter of 53 innocent people at a gay club and the injury of 50 more had nothing to do with Islam and everything to do with homophobia. Seddique Mateen said that his son once saw two men kissing in downtown Miami and his wife and son witnessed the public display of affection as well. According to the suspected terrorist’s father, Omar became “very angry” at that point, which led to the terrorist attack that took place in Orlando early Sunday morning.”
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/3197600/seddique-mateen-father-of-orlando-

“As questions emerged about the gunman’s history, FBI Special Agent Ron Hopper told reporters that Mateen had been interviewed by FBI officers twice in 2013 following inflammatory comments to colleagues asserting ties to IS.
The investigation ended after officers were unable to substantiate the claims. However, Mateen was questioned again in 2014 about a potential connection to Moner Mohammad Abu-Salha, the American known to have carried out a suicide bombing in the Syria conflict.
The FBI investigation found no “substantial relationship” between Mateen and Abu-Salha and the case was closed, said Special Agent Hopper.
Despite being on the FBI’s radar, Manteen was not on an official terrorism watch list and was able to legally hold a state firearms licence, according to Florida records.
It has emerged that Mateen had worked as an armed security officer for the firm G4S since 2007.”
@http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-36513468

Obama made no mention of Islam or Muslims or the ‘homophobic’ character of the attack.

That it happened during Ramadan should give us pause.
“A U.S. government advisory warned that ISIS attacks, either directly sponsored or simply inspired by the group’s rhetoric, could be carried out during Islam’s month of Ramadan that begins June 5.
The threatened attacks were announced in an ISIS video made public May 21.
In the video, ISIS spokesman Abu Mohammad al-Adnani called on jihadists to “get prepared, be ready … to make it a month of calamity everywhere for nonbelievers…especially for the fighters and supporters of the caliphate in Europe and America.”
@http://freebeacon.com/national-security/islamic-state-threatens-terror-attacks-u-s-europe/

The LGBTI ‘community’ is coy to say anything about ‘religion’ either, unless they vociferously denounce ‘Islamophobia’ and abuse the Christians Churches and denominations who oppose same-sex marriages!

This link is to a MSM “newspaper” in Sydney Australia. Being several thousand kilometres away on the other side of the planet and in a different time zone, they know all about what actually happened. SMH is just echo-chamber for whatever narrative has been provided by Powers That Be.
Forget them as a reliable source of anything but a bunch of parrots.

During the early morning news shows, the presenters reported that the SWAT team did not intervene for 2 or three hours, because there was a “hostage situation”, so duirng that time the shooter(s) had free reigh over the building of that nightclub.
One thing that struckl me while looking at the drone aerial footage that has become so popular now, is that the building did not look that very big, to hold in most probability over 200 or 300 people in a saturday night.
The other thing is that in the parking lot of the venue there appeared to be no more than 20 cars parked.
Considering the numbers of all the victims, injured, and those who ran away to safety, it is very odd that there are so few cars in the parking lot. Logic says that there would have to be at least 50 even a hundred or more vehicles. In the USA people do not walk, nor use public transport to get to a Night Club, especially in a place as Orlando, FL
The fact that the victims were homosexuals, just seems to be that it was their turn.
There have been mass shootings, of Military, Foret Hood, Schoolchildren in Connecticut.
Film goers in Colorado, etc. Not to be cynical but it seems as if they are going by the alphabet, or by the shock factor. In all cases deranged individuals are the culprits. Even if they are religious fanatics, the investigators like to suggest that they were also emotionally unstable.
That is the cdommon denaminator. Not the fact that machine guns or guns with large magazines were used. But just that the USA has been producing generations of citizens that have impaired emotional and intellectual capacities.
The US governbment banned the filming of its dead soldiers upon arrival from the ME. The same manner we never get to see, to corroborate the numbers of the alledged victims in these mass shootings.
The respectful viewings of the martyrs of Beslan, of the Moscow Theater, of Donbass, of the martyrs of the wars in the ME, bring to us the reality of the tragedies.
In the USA there is much to doubt of anything that happens, it is difficult to passively accept the narrative, whoever happens to be the victim.
People have been desensitized to pain and suffering, to empathy and sympathy for their neighbors.
Tomorrow they will be making fun of Trump and his orange hair, and praising the ravings of the lunatics on the other side.
And lets not forget that we are having a busy month of June, The European Football Championship, the America Football cup in the USA, and the Hato preparations for invasion of Russia in Europe.
While two Murican Aircraft Carrier groups are parked in the Mediterranean to Shock and Awe the pesky, ingrate Russkies, Sarc.

False flag. Doing it in a gay bar will off course get some who would ordinarily realize almost immediately that this is a staged event to focus on the “gay” issue. Gays will see it another persecution, gay haters will see it as not important. They are very good at picking venues for their events that assist them in getting away with it. Folks, don’t let your biases keep you from seeing the deeper game which is much more dangerous to us all than what adults do in their bedrooms. TPTB like us to be divided.

Yes, a staged event. Shouldn’t be called a “false flag attack”, though, as that would imply the attack was real, which it was not. Technically, it’s got a “false flag” component, of course: the organizers seem to imply the “Islamic State” is to blame, so there is misattribution. But the main feature here is the fakeness, not the misattribution.

A “lone wolf” gunman kills 50 people and wounds scores more before the police are able to stop him.

I guess this is plausible. Maybe.

It’s certainly not something completely and ridiculously unbelievable like… I dunno… a handful of guys armed with nothing but box cutters hijacking 3 airplanes and single-handedly evading the entire US military defense system and penetrating some of the most tightly guarded airspace in the world.

I don’t think the grief of the friends and relatives of murdered Americans is any greater than that of the friends and relatives of Pakistanis, Afghans, Iraqis etc murdered by drone strikes and NATO bombs.
I note that the Orlando killer was of Afghani origin. Why are Americans surprised when their own citizens act in a manner similar to their government.
Ironicly if this was a false flag which seems a likely possibility, then it was their own government

On this relative to other events – I agree.
On gun policy – you can’t have a gun poicy based on what might happen. It has to based on what does happern. And US weak gun laws does coincide with very high gun deaths. Guns do kill a lot of people. Knives kill a few people, drunk drivers kill a lot, but weird poisons and all the other “alternatives” hardly kill anyone at all.

First, the states with the most restrictive gun laws (NY, CA) have the worst gun-related crime rates.

Second, most gun related violence is directly linked to drug trafficking and gang activities neither of which are even marginally affected by gun laws.

Third, legal gun owners have 1/6 of the crime rate of police officers. In fact, legal gun owners are even more law abiding than clergymen or any other social group. Just check the officially available figures.

Fourth, by passing more restrictive gun laws you ONLY take away the guns from these hyper-law-abiding citizens and you leave them defenseless against armed criminals (who don’t give a damn about the law anyway). That, in turn, only serves to increase violent crime (including gun-related violence).

Of the many, many instances of multiple shootings each year in the US, how many involve Muslims? Very few. How many involve gays? Very few. How many involve guns?

The notion that guns reduce the number of incidents of shooting seems not borne out by events in the US (and in comparison with other countries where gun ownership is less prevalent).

Is it not odd that what I understand is a misreading of the constitution has instilled a reflex belief that gun ownership is a citizen’s right?

When students are shot dead, there is a media fuss, or when a Congresswoman, or… And there is a media fuss when the killing is local, or anywhere in the West. That this particular shooting was in a gay bar or whatever, is no prerequisite for fuss. All this about “the powers that be” and their special interest in the “well-being of gays” and “the homosexual lobby in the USA” demanding “special protection for homosexuals” and ” how our masters want us to react” is simply exploiting the incident for ideological ends. It is also completely at odds with “this massacre has nothing to do with homosexuality” – which is the more reasonable inference. Which are we to take as representative – reasonable inference or urge to rail?

‘Let’s get rid of them’: British-born Islamic preacher who has called for gays to be ‘executed’ was giving lectures in Orlando weeks before nightclub massacre
Farrokh Sekaleshfar was reportedly in Orlando in March giving public lectures
In videos online Sekaleshfar has said homosexuals should be ‘executed’
50 people were killed when gunman opened fire in Orlando gay nightclub
Sekaleshfar is currently in Australia on a speaking tour
By LIAM QUINN FOR DAILY MAIL AUSTRALIA
PUBLISHED: 06:33, 13 June 2016 | UPDATED: 07:10, 13 June 2016

no place not a battlefield part 2
This was on his page on the social network reported volunteer, activist and openly gay Elena Shevchenko.

“Caution! On the Independence next to the McDonald’s graze “right” and questioned whether the people not to “gay parade – she writes.

According to information from the Ukrainian capital, today a group of ten people beat two LGBT march participants at ENEA (outskirts of Kiev where the subway train without stops taken out of the march). One of the victims have been hospitalized with injuries of moderate severity. The police failed to apprehend the perpetrators.

One of the beaten at ENEA – member of the gay parade from Odessa, Igor Zakharenko. Friends Man posted on Facebook with bruises on his face and said that he is probably a concussion.

Recall, on Sunday, June 12 in Kiev the so-called “March of Equality”, which was attended by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people. About 500 activists took part in the action (planned for 1000) and 6000 police officers who guarded them. Despite increased security measures, between radicals and representatives of sexual minorities is still a small fights occurred.”

“50-100+ innocent people were shot/hurt, but that is more or less what happens on a daily basis in so many locations of our planet”

These are the words that leapt out at me from your analysis Saker. And the connection is blindingly clear. The US above any other country has been responsible for raining never ending war, death and terror on innocent victims abroad. Since 9/11 the US has picked off, as planned (see General Wesley Clark) a series of Middle Eastern countries. Including Afghanistan, where military occupation and droning continues to this day.

Bingo! If the details about the origins and background of the the shooter are correct (as usual the ‘story’ and details emerge too quickly), he was an ethnic Afghani. No surprise if he grew up identifying as a victim of US invasion, occupation, droning and bombing in his country of origin. No need to look for convoluted black flag explanations. No surprise, that he ends up disturbed, radicalised, hating and with easy access to lethal firearms goes on a punishing killing spree. It’s called blowback – not justifiable, but blowback nevertheless.

No, the innocent victims in the night club in Orlando did not deserve this, but nor did/do the, countless thousands of victims of US violence abroad. Americans wake up. Cry for your dead and injured, but also give thought to those just as innocent wedding parties, children, students getting awards, civilians, hospital patients – (charmingly labelled ‘collateral damage’), and families of those killed – in so many countries where America has no business to be. If you want to be safe from terror, stop your government from being the biggest terrorist the world has ever seen.

The Santa Monica Police Department has arrested a 20-year-old man driving a car full of guns and explosive materials. He allegedly planned to “harm” the LGBT community in the Los Angeles area, the same day that a shooting rampage in Orlando claimed 50 lives.
Trends
Global terrorism
READ MORE: Deadliest mass shooting in US history: 50 dead, 53 injured in Orlando gay club massacre

Authorities have identified the man as 20-year-old James Howell from Indiana. He was arrested in the early hours of Sunday morning, in a Santa Monica neighborhood, accompanied by an arsenal of weapons, which he reportedly wanted to use against the pride march in West Hollywood later in the day.”https://www.rt.com/usa/346433-armed-suspect-los-angeles-lgbt/

Why is everybody taking it all as fact.If MSM said there was 100 people killed you automatically believe them.
First of all the first reports by Orlando police did report a shooting at a night club but only 2,get that,only two people were shot and few injured.This was from Orlando police.What is the number now.This is nothing more but opportunity by PTB to attack gun ownership.Talk about cognitive dissonance.The world,or maybe I should say just US and western world have gone to shit.
There are actual links at JimStone.com to articles in MSM papers in Orlando and surrounding area about it,and no I didn’t get my info there.I saw it all over alternative media,talking about original number of two shot.
What is worst of it all is that everybody including alternative media are all reporting the new narrative.
Watching RT it is just like watching MSNBC,touting how bad gun ownership is.
Chew on that people.

The quote I like from recent Murkin history is from the avant-guard author William Burroughs: “Every time somebody goes on a shooting spree they try to take the guns away from the people who did not do it.”

I’d point out that in the specific case the first reports said that there were two shooters…

Cui bono? (it’s obvious)

Additionally, I strongly suspect that the rural bars in my area, whatever the statues may say, generally have a few guns handy… I am not in Florida… And I do not keep guns, but I’m happy that others do!

I was struck by your mention of the Yazidi women who were burned alive. It reminded me of this article I read a while back: “Influential elites revealed for extreme ‘Christianophobes’ who call for genocide, eugenics”. I’m not suggesting that Christianity (or anti-Christianity) has anything to do with this, but these elites just might. And this is a glimpse into their mental world.

Good article by the Saker. The real story here is not the shooting in itself, but how the media is utilising this to manipulate / indoctrinate us.

“Morris108” – British guy, living in Cambodia, who uploads his videotaped political comments on a daily basis – is one of those who thinks the Orlando shooting is suspicious: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ULcvAnL6_0. Though I don’t always agree with him, I do like his credo: “You cannot believe anything any more”.

– I just checked RT and left disgustedly after one look at the front page. Sometimes they sound like Western MSM to the point where they are hardly distinguishable from them any more.

Every time something like this happens we should think about the hundreds of billions of dollars that Saudi Arabia (along with Qatar and their Gulf Arab allies) has spent over the last several decades on spreading the Wahhabi ideology and weaponizing its adherents.
Despite all their efforts, their hateful take on Islam remains on the fringe of the Muslim world with its major appeal being to Arabs and Pushtun people who have held on more to their traditions than to Islam. They have unfortunately also attracted a few wannabes from around the world.
The pain caused by the Wahhabi/Takfiri extremists to Muslims and non-Muslims is enormous and serves to prevent people from seeing the true nature of Islam. Its a tragedy that so many continue to treat with the originators and sponsors of this evil cult as though they are just respectable “Oil Sheikhs”.

One thing that would help: if the USA wasn’t always messing around in the Middle East. A total withdrawal from that part of the world (and every other part of the world that isn’t American soil) would help immensely to decrease the motivation for terrorism. On top of that, I’d ban the Saudis from financing mosques in America. Those guys are demons who turn otherwise harmless Muslims into fire-breathing fanatics.
Changing the law to make it easier for bars to have armed guards would also be helpful.

Almost all of the major terrorist attacks (9/11, Charlie Hebdo, Boston Bombings, Bataclan Theater at Paris, Brussels airport, Orlando and many more… ) have similar characteristics that point to false flag attacks.

The alleged perpetrators were known to the police and secret services (9/11 “hijackers”, Tsarnaev brothers, Omar Mateen), a sign that they were intelligence “assets” of CIA and other secret services.

Their “passports” were also miraculously found in the crime scenes. But why a future terrorist would carry any i.d or his real passport ? It is obvious that the authorities plant false evidence in the crime scenes. They did it at 9/11 and they did it at the Charlie Hebdo and Bataclan attacks.

Another strange coincidence is that every time the media blame “ISIS” because of some post in obscure websites.

” A message posted in Arabic on a dark web site associated with the ISIS news agency Amaq said “the armed attack that targeted a gay night club in the city of Orlando in the American state of Florida and that bore more than a 100 killed and wounded was carried out by an Islamic state fighter.”
But CNN’s Salma Abdelaziz, who translated the message and closely monitors ISIS messaging, cautioned about taking the message at face value. ”

From the (known CIA asset) Osama bin laden hysteria of the early 2000s, now we have a new “evil” called ISIS. Surprisingly, we never hear anything about al Qaeda today ( apparently they cooperate with US forces in Syria now) and no photos of the “dead” Bin laden were ever published . We had bin laden hysteria before and after the Afghanistan invasion, we now have ISIS hysteria (and it is well known that the USA plans to invade Syria).

All these attacks are very strange and it is also very strange that the US and EU authorities do not want to control their internal or external borders. On purpose, they have led millions of unknown and potentially dangerous foreigners to sneak into Europe and USA. While borders are wide open, they take measures to create a police state.

They let millions of illiterate and criminal muslims and strictly publish images with women and children. Yet anyone who objects to the massive illegal immigration is blamed as a “nazi” by mass media and authorities and could face jail time.

They let all these people and then they promote fear about the rise of islamic extremism so as to divide and conquer the people.

While the western elites have destroyed all secular regimes of middle east, they now “crying” about the rise of ISIS etc. There was no ISIS when Saddam , Qaddafi were on power.

There was no al Qaeda and Taliban in power in Afghanistan when the Afghan communists ruled Afghanistan. The western powers supplied weapons to all these religious fanatics so as to fight the soviet army.

What we may have is a GLADIO B. The secret services may have planned all these attacks.
During cold war, numerous terrorists attacks were performed by NATO’s secret armies and were blamed on “communists”. As USSR and Eastern Bloc disappeared, we never hear anything about communist terrorists but about islamists.

As for the common people, they will now change their profile pic at their facebook page. They will use a rainbow Gay image out of gay solidarity. They changed pics very often now, as they used a French and a Belgian flag before, or the “je suis charlie” motto. Then they will forget as they are too busy with their facebook/instagram virtual life….

Most people believe everything from the mass media propaganda. If something is repeated very often it would be believed no matter how outrageous it is.

For once I am not sure about what to think re at least one apparent assertion of the article: that gun ownership is good.
I am in full agreement with the rest.
But, there seems to be a flawed argument by lumbering Muslims and guns together in some sort of comparison table. If you ban all guns you might as well ban all Muslims. Forgive me, but guns are, first and foremost, tools for murder. Muslims, on the other hand,… well, you see the absurdity of comparison?
Please can someone give me a clear defensive argument for the mass gun ownership?
I really do fail to see the benefits.

I could not agree more. A drunk driver is responsible for any deaths he causes as is a shooter, but a car is not designed “specifically” to kill people. Guns are. This is the problem.

The US has suffered from shooting spree death matches since I can remember. This is not a new phenomenon. It simply does not happen in other countries where guns are not the norm. This alone speaks volumes for guns to banned.

Your specious argument bears you no fruit. Society will always have its criminal tendencies, it is the core nature of human beings to be self-destructive. No matter how many statutes, regulations or ordinances government enacts, violent crime will continue to exist.

You base your point on a small statistical percentage where firearms are involved in a domestic tragedy. Perhaps society should outlaw pharmaceutical drugs, automobile transportation, chemical pesticides, toxic waste, contaminated drinking water, unhealthy food on grocery shelves that have caused more sickness, injury and death of people than the lawful actions of legitimate gun owners who store, use, maintain and carry their weapons in a safe and responsible manner.

For 2014 we can readily see there were 33,599 firearm related deaths for a population of 318,857,056, which means 1 firearm related death per 9,490 people. It would appear to any rational person that firearms are involved with a lot of deaths, an alarming statistic. What is behind this number?

21,334 of those deaths were by suicide, 10,945 were homicides, 586 were unintentional, 464 were by law enforcement and 270 were undetermined. The majority of firearm deaths are from people who are killing themselves and 4,864 of all homicide deaths in 2014 did not involve firearms.

The issue for society is why are so many people taking their own life? That’s the core problem, not the fact they choose to use a firearm which is quick death, no doubt.

Nonsense. Guns are tool of combat. Combat can be offensive or defensive. I personally own 6 guns and I never murdered anybody. Nor do I plan to. And yet I use them every day. For my personal defense and for the defense of my family. I also use them for R&R at a shooting range. Love them too, especially my S&W revolvers :-)

Guns are tools, just like knives. You can use a knife to cut bread or to murder you neighbor. That does not make knives good or bad. In fact, any tool is value-neutral. A tool become loaded with a purpose only when a human takes control of it.

The US has suffered from shooting spree death matches since I can remember. This is not a new phenomenon. It simply does not happen in other countries where guns are not the norm>

That is absolutely false. Shooting sprees have happened in Norway (Breivik) and France (Charlie Hebdo) were guns are de-facto illegal (except for hunting guns which were not used in these attacks).

1. Russia’s military and it’s certain damage to the Empire if Russia is attacked directly.

2. A reported 80 million firearms in the hands of Americans who may wake up and realize the same evil bastards are out to disarm and enslave them.

The consciousness of # 1 is more competent and unified, # 2 is poorly informed and chaotic. But I wouldn’t want disarmament of either one, as both restrain evil controllers of Empire.

That Empire very much fears loss of control domestically, as their Ponzi scheme unravels. That’s why their twin goals of 1) fanning the flames of hatred in muslim countries (mobilizing a force to threaten Russia and China and brainwash Americans, simultaneously, and 2.) attempting to panic Americans into supporting their own disarmament are the two overarching motives that most probably explain Orlando, San Bernardino, and every other mass shooting involving supposed Islamic factors. Including those where the muslims are sacrificed as patsies, a very common element from 9/11 forward until today.

These facts must override all other less strategic, less important matters, such as people’s fears about guns and their “feelings” about gun owners, IMHO. All barriers to a Police State Empire abroad and at home should be clearly and forcefully maintained by all who love freedom and hate slavery and Empire.

I can use a knife for cutting bread or stabbing someone. This is true. But can you please tell me the other purpose of a gun? It is SOLELY designed for killing use a projectile. Defensive/Offensive. Makes no difference. It is designed to kill or severely injure.

You love guns because they make you feel safe. This is because you live in a country where every other person is packing heat. If they had no guns, why would you need them? This is an arms race.

You enjoy firing them? That is fine. But have official ranges where the guns never leave the building. Is that not a better solution?

Thanks for your response, Saker. I am a girl (well, a grown up one), and I fail to get excited about a gun. I am sorry. I held it many times during the Military training at school (НВП class during the 80s in the USSR), and I hated its cold metal, its dead weight. It spelt nothing to me but killing and murder. I hated it. I still do. However, I do not get a feeling of sheer terror when I hold a bread knife. Although, following your logic, I can attempt to kill someone with it, for sure. Just annoy me badly enough)))
It must be partially a guy thing, I guess. But.
There are so many unstable people in the world. You don’t even necessarily have to be a certified psycho, just lack love as a child, have some other early childhood trauma, many other “aberrations”, and, there you have it, an unstable person with a gun. Any other tool – a knife, a stick, a stone etc., can by all means be used in the same way as a gun, but you have a much reduced chance of success compared to the gun, if it is not used with premeditation. Would you not agree?
I always thought of you as through and through Russian man. But this gun rhetoric sure sounds very American to me. It may also be because you have a military background; guns have become such a norm to you, like any other everyday object. However, to many of us, civilians (and girls!), there simply isn’t any plausible argument for gun ownership in peaceful times.

Well… Guns are not illegal in Norway.
But recently certain type of weapons became illegal to store without special licences.
But yes in Norway we only use weapons for hunting.
Never for “defending” ourself.

And the police never have guns with them.
They dont even have guns in their patrolcars. (They need to drive back to office to take out guns).
So no triggerhappy cops.

And kids that get bullied at school uses their fists, and sadly a more modern culture has ended with knifes at play.
But thankfully most families in the cities do not have guns available = any mentally depressed bullied child will never go to school to actually do a shooting spree!.
While in usa it seems that on average there is more then one such event every week. Usa is insane.
No access = very limited chance of unstable or powerhungry people get a chance to do insane things in the heat of the moment.

Breivik was an extreme exceptions. Which wont talk about here now.

So the usa argument about guns saving lives is complete BS!.

BUT the problem inusa is that guns are everywhere!. So if the criminals are overstocked with guns. Including burgulars, etc.
Then yes the “victims” needs guns also, to protect and deter potensial attacks.

In Norway, most criminals dont even have guns;)
Burglars? No guns.

Usa is like a shithole in many respects (crimes, education, healthcare).
Not ment to be rude, but its better to be honest.

So under the circumstances of usa, i think the citizens need guns.

And one day there will be civil wars, where people needs to take back controll.
And only way to fight a totalirian state, is with access to weapons.
So no guns is like cowbinding your feets and hands (in the long run).

I would like to see a comparison of death by all means, knifes, baseball bats, fists etc so we can compare the level of violence between countries. Maybe the US is just a violent country and will score high no matter what tool is used.

You might find that a comparison of gun ownership per capita per country with gun deaths per capita per country enlightening regards a particular peoples’ propensity towards violence. When I made the comparison there were a number of countries (Switzerland being one of them) that had a higher per capita level of gun ownership but a vastly lower level of gun deaths.

My point (above anon) exactly. Doesn’t this show that entrusting guns to en mass to “exceptional” humans is not such a good idea after all? Surely such a gap in stats between the US, where every man and his dog owns a gun, and Europe (no guns, but Switzerland, but highly regulated) proves that the US’s higher gun crime must be, to at least a large extent, due to unregulated gun ownership?

Saker is correct. Watch Michael Moore’s “Bowling for Columbine”! It contains very useful information. Such as, that ownership of guns per capita in Germany, for instance, is incomparably higher than that in the United States – and yet, murders by shooting in Germany are practically negligible comparing to those in the U.S.. Americans are violent people (one can not say nation, since it isn’t one). Period.

Think for a second, nowhere do such stats explain what *causes* the gun deaths. Let me tell you something, if you REALLY want to dramatically lower the rate of gun-related deaths in the USA, then legalize not only Marijuana, but all recreational drugs. Make them available over the counter just like alcohol. That will raise a ton of money and it will drop gun violence to practically zero since most gun violence is gang/drug related. But that is impossible due to the totally ideological approach most people have towards drugs which, just like guns, are considered “bad” which, of course, they are not. They are just substances which, just like tools, are neither good nor bad.

I am sick and tired of this constant personifications of evil into inanimate objects. When will we finally have the courage to admit that evil is inside ourselves, and not in tools or substances or any other external thing?!

I take it that “lies, damned…etc. etc.” is intended to convey that the statistics are misleading. In what way? More gun crime in countries where ownership is more tightly controlled? Or what?

Drug laws vary in countries other than the US. Does the variation in drug laws correlate with the variation in gun crime? Given the magnitude of the difference between the US and all the rest, it is probably difficult to see any such variation or correlation on any scale that includes both the US and the rest. Certainly, countries with strict laws against drugs, like Japan, do not have a correspondingly high rate of gun crime (0.01 deaths per 100000). Holland has lax laws on drugs and 0.36 deaths per 100000. Sweden has tough drug laws and 0.41 deaths per 100000… It doesn’t look as if there is much mileage in the argument from drug laws.

It is just plain silly to pretend that those you don’t agree with are saying that the criminality resides in the “inanimate object” rather than the person wielding it. Come on.

The corollary of this “defence” of guns is that Americans are more “evil” than their peers in other Western countries, which I doubt.

The corollary of this “defence” of guns is that Americans are more “evil” than their peers in other Western countries, which I doubt.

Bad logic following bad stats. Figures…

The problem is not that Americans are “evil”. The problem is that for a long list of reasons, the USA has a unique poverty/illiteracy/gang/drugs/poor education problem all of which contributes to the drug-related violence.

Do you know what factor has the highest correlation to gun violence in the USA?

As for “bad logic” as regards “evil”: “When will we finally have the courage to admit that evil is inside ourselves, and not in tools or substances or any other external thing”. Not guns, not drugs, not anything external. The evil is inside. The argument was yours, not mine. The corollary of the argument, your argument, is that the people in the rest of the West are not as “evil” as Americans.

And as for “just blaming guns”. I didn’t. It is you, on the contrary, have come close to exonerating the gun culture in the US altogether. Which is what you (wrongly) accuse me of.

After my final flourish, I rushed off to watch the football (soccer) without noticing that I appear to say the opposite of what I meant. Bear with me, moderator, while I satisfy my own pedantry and make clear that the Saker accused me of saying that it’s solely to do with guns, which I don’t – but he comes close to asserting the opposite, that it is nothing to do with guns. (And hasn’t explained what is wrong with the stats and hasn’t refuted an argument that I have put forward rather than inadvertently one that he has. But that is by the bye. It’s his prerogative.)

Now here’s an interesting argument, or use of statistics, partly in support of the Saker – it’s not about guns – and partly contradicting him – Americans are indeed just more evil than others. I agree with a modified version of the first part – it’s not just about guns. Not the second. And I think we can all justifiably respond to each other’s comments (including the Saker’s) with the Saker’s “It ain’t so simple”.

so you probably hadn’t read it or thought about it before you wrote your comment.

Decide where your priorities are. If they are not for the Empire locking down control of the entire planet, you will yield to the points you have been quibbling with.

On the other hand, if sticking to your “feelings” about this issue, and your ego involvement with those feelings trump the strategic priority of restraining the control of the Empire, then you know which side you are really on, and so does everyone else that can prioritize with any kind of intellectual rigor.

In an ideal world, no one would do any violence to anyone else, and force in defense of one’s rights would not need to be maintained by anyone. We’re not there yet.

The primary purpose of the 2nd amendment, however, is not personal self defense but the people’s common defense against the tyranny of their own government, should it come to the point that the government deteriorates to the point the people can no longer trust it. It already has come to that point, Alex. It already has. But the controllers know that their police state apparatus of armed order followers may be too reluctant to follow their orders to violate the rights of their fellow citizens, as long those citizens continue to possess 80 million firearms.

That’s the issue that overrides your nit-picking. For the sake of argument, place yourself in Crimea in early 2014. How would your voice do, as a voice of resistance to a NAZI police state??

Hopefully it won’t have to go quite that far here before you wake up and smell the coffee.

“A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.”

Okay, so it’s ungrammatical. And the gun lobby likes to leave out the crucial first clause. But I think we can take it that those who drafted the constitution (pace Scalia) did not intend to give citizens the right to form a militia against their own government, and did not intend the perceived need for a militia (rather than a standing army) to justify present gun laws permitting people to keep and bear arms in going about their everyday business.

Notwithstanding, the United States has been since its inception a plutocracy. The “right of the people to keep and bear arms” has not done anything to change that, nor will it. Even a “well regulated militia” will no longer do anything. The national security state is not scared by gun owners, and gun owners are not sufficiently organised, nor are they likely to be, to deter the national security state from doing just as it sees fit.

Thank you for giving us a perfect example of complete and total submission from the outset. Pathetic slave mentality with zero self consciousness. Another “practical” “man”. I enjoyed a few laughs, at least, at the astounding degree of your submissiveness.

The real battle is in the mind and you appear to have lost it some time ago. Cheers.

To repeat, the much cherished right to bear arms has done nothing to stop the plutocracy these last 240 years. A few lone gunslingers and a few gun clubs are certainly not going to make any difference now. Enjoy the romantic image of heroic resistance, if you wish, but don’t expect anyone else to be impressed.

Impressing anyone is not the point. Having the option of saying “NO” to punitive battalions in Donbass or Empire enforcers anywhere else is the point.

When it gets to the point of your rights being violated with violence would you use justified force?

Clearly,you advocate submission.

I advocate waking your neighbors before it gets to that point, but if it gets to that point, which it appears that it may, you are already folded up into a fetal position, which is precisely where they want you. Very impressive!

I’m not sure what you are wanting to persuade us of. We started with gun crime in the US. I, unwisely as it turns out, mentioned the second amendment. Whether or not those who wrote the constitution thought a people’s militia preferable to a standing army is now of only historic interest. The US has opted for a standing army (and how!). That the second clause in the amendment has morphed in the minds of many citizens into a “right” for everyone and anyone to carry firearms is very much of current interest. On the face of it, it has contributed (n.b. only “contributed”) to the prevalence of gun crime in the US relative to other countries. It seems to me that you have confused the two things. A “right” for citizens to carry firearms is not going to make any impression on the workings of the plutocrats/deep state/whatever you want to call them. And a people’s militia is now an anachronism. Were the people now to try to assemble a modern equivalent, do you think the various organs of state security would stand idly by? And, if they did, do you think such a militia would stand any chance in a fire fight against any one of those organs of state security? You would be taking your stand, not, with the help of Russia, against the incompetents and mad dogs of Ukraine, but against the might of the US of A, with the help of…who? So, it seems to me, talk of taking up arms against your government is just hot air. It has no practical relevance to the state we find ourselves in.

Yes, it is true that evil exists in mankind and we cannot blame all of this on guns. The point I have always made is that when in a fist fight it is far more likely for the opponent to survive. Sure tragedies happen and people can be beat to death. But give one of them a gun and the chances of death increases a thousandfold.

One of the main reasons I would never own a gun is that I would use it.

Ask yourself this question….. How many more people would be alive in the United States if there were no readily available firearms? I mean, even your bloody supermarkets sell guns! How crazy is that. Hmmmm. I want some carrots, celery and while I am at it a Beretta 9mm! Great country. Not F@@ked up at all.

Now, please don’t get me wrong. I am sure that something like this Orlando shooting could happen whatever the rules on gun ownership. I think it is just less likely to occur. Never mind the countless “accidents”.

“legalize not only Marijuana, but all recreational drugs. Make them available over the counter just like alcohol. That will raise a ton of money and it will drop gun violence to practically zero since most gun violence is gang/drug related. ”

A HORRIBLE Horrible horrible idea!.

Organized crimes will never dissapear, they will just find other merchandizes to make money on.
So unless you want to legalize all types of criminal and dangerous activities, then that recipie will definitly not work.
Hard drugs (messes with your mind/psychotic/kills), organtraffic, hitkills, forced prostitution, human trafficing, slavery, etc.

So 1. The organized criminals will not dissapear.
2. You have now just opened up mainstream to even more harmfull stuff (hard drugs).

Irony, hard drugs + guns, that sounds like a “fun” combination.
Not few instances of heroine/narcotic drugs killing their own families in the heat of the moment/under a drugtrip.

Legalizing hard drugs are such a sick idea, that just the idea should almost put one in jail.
Very destructive. So many lifes get ruined.

Even IF the organized criminals pensioned themselves if hard drugs got legalized (which they definitly wont!!!!).
The destructive consequences of hard drigs would way outweigh the “few” deaths etc restriction of hard drugs entails.

And people from usa is (on average) so incredible stupid (retarded) as it is. They dont need to take hard drugs to destroy their brains even more.
Usa sometimes reminds me of a movie, where two very dumb people accidently got sent into the future, a future where people where so incredible stupid/retarded, that those two stupid people got almost burned for sorcery for being “smart”.
Anyway: just no!.

After the initial shooting, police surrounded the club while Mateen was inside with clubgoers hiding in bathrooms and other parts of the building. People inside the club were communicating on their phones with law enforcement from that time until around 5 a.m., when authorities used an armored vehicle to break down the door of the building.

Authorities used an armored vehicle to break down the door of building ???

All said and done, Same Sex men and woman have a Soul. That being said, they have to pay the price for Sin like the rest of us. They are not Special they are sinners like the rest of us. We need to stop thinking they are a Special class of people. Same Sex citizens Jesus died for you as well. However don’t for one minute think that You won’t be Judged like the rest of us. You need to repent(change your mind) and asked Almighty God to Save your Soul , he will if you asked Him based on the Shed Blood of His Only Begotton Son. If not you like us all Will be judged ,This is a Fact.

Substantial agreement with you. Well written. This act of mass murder is being used shamefully as an excuse by special interest groups with their own agendas.

Tangentially, the use of the label “terrorism” is too often used now days as a new “in label.” I do not consider the Orlando massacre an act of terrorism, but rather mass murder. Terrorism requires an objective with the killings used as the vehicle, not the end result.

There are many official definitions of terrorism, US and International. But in all, the act is done for a purpose to cause change through fear beyond the actual event. Unless there is proof that this mass murder was done to achieve a political or social change, as opposed to killing for hate of homosexuals, then it was not terrorism. It was murder. Unless the following definitions have been changed, here are some examples.

“The unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a Government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”
“International terrorism is the unlawful use of force or violence committed by a group or individual, who has some connection to a foreign power or whose activities transcend national boundaries, against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.”

US Army Operational Concept for Terrorism Counteraction (TRADOC Pamphlet No. 525-37, 1984)
Terrorism: “the calculated use of violence or threat of violence to attain goals that are political, religious, or ideological in nature. This is done through intimidation, coercion, or instilling fear”

British Terrorism Act 2000
British Definition of Terrorism: “terrorism is the use, or threat, of action which is violent, damaging or disrupting, and is intended to influence the government or intimidate the public and is for purpose of advancing a political, religious or ideological cause”

United Nations Security Council Resolution 1566 – anti-terrorism resolution
terrorism: “… criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act.”

What is missing in their English translation, however, are the first two passages of the original article. While those are quite “colourful”, their omission is beyond my comprehension. (Perhaps SCF English site is under tight control of official Kremlin’s Political Correctness Police, which worries not to “offend” their Anglo-Zionist capitalist “partners”? Still…)

In March, the correspondents of the Dominican newspaper “Diario Libre” were suddenly not allowed to go to the reception at the United States Embassy. The newspaper’s director Adriano Tejada explained the reason: due to the publication of racy photos taken at “gay pride day” in the Embassy pool. Given the present day liberal-sexual liberation, there was nothing special in the story: in a very tight company of a dozen of muscular guys in speedos, there posed festively the Ambassador and his “spouse”…

In the United States under President Obama the ban on the admission of gays to the civil service has been lifted. Newsweek magazine even called Obama the first gay President in history [!]. Another magazine specializing in issues of sexual minorities, in November last year placed a photo of Obama on the cover, with the words: “Our President. Ally. Hero. Icon”. He became the first President photographed for the magazine. Perhaps really a hero, since none of Obama’s predecessors dared to publicly state the support of perversions – “marriage” between persons of the same sex. …

Well there ya go… another intelligent voice in the sea of chattering breasts and complex social issues in 140 characters or less. Great article. Not that I agree with you entirely; (what a boring life THAT would be) but rather your assertion that we are being *made* to believe… whatever is their leading agenda. Thank you!

Exactly….and it is highly likely that at some future time when the American people regain control of their government such attacks against the innocent will subside and the now classified files can be opened for public scrutiny and charges laid in the cases where those individuals who have perpetrated such crimes inside or outside government can be brought to trial.

Yeah, right. Just hold your breath. C’mon, how can one “regain” something which he has never had?!…

See Chapter 4 “Tyranny is Tyranny” in Professor Zinn’s “People’s History of the United States”, http://www.historyisaweapon.com/defcon1/zinntyr4.html . See who had the full control of the U.S. government from day one. Start with reading the first two passages … and don’t forget the very last passage.

(“Slightly” different than the crap taught nowadays to the little inmates of the American zombie factories, no?)

Why don’t the people who “want their country, constitution, etc. back” understand that they never HAD what they want back? OK – to explain this would be no short, simple account, that’s for sure. But at the rate things are going, these people will not likely understand this fact very soon.

But thanks for posting Zinn’s chapter (even though it will be for the most part completely ignored).

As long as Pindos blow each others’ heads off in ever larger numbers at ever lower ages, I’m kind of pleased. I would have been even more delighted in case the Orlando shooting spree had materialised in the schoolyard. And, by God, does it get even better as the Pindos stick to their psychotic perceptions of the blissful abundance of easily available firearms:

“This is why it has become rather dangerous to start shooting people in Florida, because chances are somebody nearby will shoot right back at you.”

Somebody less gullible might had suggested politely that gun-toting Pindos are but a manifestation of their war-mongering, genocidal Zionazi rulers: extremely violent, bloodthirsty, and hateful reactionaries all along the line. To put this into a most sobering perspective, one only has to compare the genuine revolutions in, say, Russia and China to the utter bogus “revolution” by the God-awful Euro-squatters in North America. To wit: Did the downtrodden Russians or Chinese masses run around shooting all and sundry as a prerequisite for making revolution? The hallucinations of Euro-squatters making “revolution” by killing off an innocent Native population are not only totally anathema to plain human decency; they are a threat to the entire species. As matters stand, the only advantage of firearms-for-all in the US is the potential to finish off US society from within.

So the forecast for 60% chance of less than 1 mm of rain in Vancouver turned out to actually mean 100% chance of 50 mm of rain in less than 2 hours. I see our right to correct Internet weather forecasts has been revoked. National security, I am sure. Makes me think of Germany, France, Texas, etc, etc.

Well, as long as the gays are safe. And speaking of the gays, the National Post included a cute head shot of every single person killed in the Orlando shooting on the front cover today. I say, while we are turning the dead into meaningless cardboard cutouts, we should also include 8×10 glossy photos of each person in the newspaper. And we can all vote on which one is sexiest.

how can you write this article expressing how we are so manipulated by the “media” “gov’t” “whatever”. and you suggest not to listen to lies. then to descend to the very same games. child sexual abuse……………………………..

FBI Director Comey said that the guy was probably “radicalized” by the internet, but no admission that he equally likely was “radicalized” by the atrocities that the American military has been directly imposing on the land of his forefathers (Afghanistan) for the past 15 years… and actually very much longer if you count the years that we recruited and supported the Mujahadeen to attack the Soviets who were trying to stabilize a progressive democratic government that protected the rights of women. The kid undoubtedly had a number of bones to pick with American foreign policy and was more than just a brainwashed web surfer. His father supports the Taliban, as he campaigns for the presidency of Afghanistan… from the shores of Florida. The Saker may well unknowingly bump into such people every day down in the Sunshine State. Florida’s critical electoral votes just shifted towards Trump’s column because Obama, the Dems and Hitlery will be blamed for this.

Saker: the Orlando incident was definitely a false flag. The only questions are: Were 50 people killed or much less than 50 killed or were no people killed? Was Mateen a patsy or did he not exist at all?

Well, there’s the Sandy Hook incident and the Boston Marathon bombing which was a drill, the Paris attacks look quite suspicious for being faked, Brussels also, so if they staged those why would this be different. (Their techniques might even solidify with time.) That there are no real victims but crisis actors might be for practical reasons.

(Or there’s also Operation Northwoods from 1962 that proposed a false flag operation and FAKING. So it’s even there. And they did 9/11 and are covering it up ever since, including the media, and all the other false flags in history. So why would be faking that improbable. )

“Once again, this isn’t about “radical” Islam. This isn’t a tiny fringe. In Britain, a 2009 Gallup survey found that not one Muslim believed that homosexual acts were acceptable. Not one! And another poll this year revealed that over half of British Muslims believe gay sex should be illegal.’

This is an educational message to you and to everyone else reading this message, including Muslims.

Do we Muslims believe that homosexual acts are unacceptable ? ……Absolutely !

Do we Muslims believe that homosexuality should be illegal ? …………Absolutely !

However, Muslims and non Muslims should know that Islamic law (al Sharia al Islamia) cannot and will never be implemented in non Islamic countries like the Western nations.

Islamic law itself even recognizes that Islamic law is impossible to be applied to non Muslim countries (whether in the West, in China, or any non Muslim area) and it forbids Islamic law to be forced by Muslims or anyone else for that matter in non Muslim countries.

Islam recognizes this fact and it is strictly formulated in the Sharia and is unanimously agreed upon by all major Islamic scholars and schools of thought.

Are there Muslims (in the West or anywhere else) who are unaware or completely ignorant of this concept in Islamic law ? …….Absolutely !

Are these ignorant Muslims a majority in the West ? …… Absolutely not !

Are these ignorant Muslims a minority in the West ? …… Absolutely!

How do I know this ? Because I am a Muslim, and I know that most of the Muslims who have either arrived in the West or are born in the West know very well that Islamic law can never and will never be applied in the West.

Any Muslim who wants to live under Islamic law or at least live in a somewhat Islamic country should move to an Islamic majority country.

So for example a Syrian Muslim who wants to leave Syria for security or economic reasons and wants to live under Islamic law, he/she should attempt to move to an Islamic country like Morocco, Egypt, Malaysia, Indonesia, etc……If non of these countries are willing to accept him/her, then he/she can choose a Western country out of pure necessity.

However, any Muslim refugee, migrant, student, traveler who goes to a Western country knows very well that Islamic law does not apply there and should never expect Islamic law to be applied there.

If he/she is not aware or ignorant of this Islamic concept, which is purely logic, then they must be educated by both the Muslim community in the West and by local authorities.

If they still insist (arrogantly or ignorantly) that Islamic law should be applied in the West or that they will enforce the law by taking the law in their own hands……then obviously measures will be taken by the authorities.

Islamic law is very straight forward:

Homosexuality under Islamic law (which as mentioned above can only be implemented in an Islamic country) is punishable by death (execution)………The death penalty is commanded by God on the followers as a form of pure deterrence…….In other words, to instill fear of anyone in society that will attempt to act upon it, that attempts to make it public or make it a normal part of society as is the case in the West.

Any so called Islamic country that does not apply the death penalty to homosexuality can be considered as not implementing Islamic law on this specific point (they could be applying Islamic law on any other issue). There is absolutely no discussion, different opinions or flexibility in Islamic law considering homosexuality.

The RT reporter asked the State Department speaker Mark Toner about a photo of Mr. Mateen Sr., the father of the shooter. The photo was made inside of the State Department and shows Mr. S. Mateen proudly smiling. Mark Toner did not have an answer. What does that tell us?
R

What could make you think that it was really a ‘false flag’ operation is the ‘universal’ ‘outpouring of grief’ and declarations of ‘love, love, love, and love and love’ for LGBTQIA ‘community’. A tremendous boost for the LGBTQIA agenda. They were lagging behind Charlie Hebdo, Bataclan, the refugees, the drowned children, the victims of Assad brutality. But now “We are LGBTQIAA” (LGBTQIA has been enlarged by another A, “Ally – A person who does not identify as LGBTQIA, but supports the rights and safety of those who do”). Wow, look who the ‘Allies” are, “The Queen has led tributes to the victims of the Orlando nightclub massacre as Britons shared messages of support on social media.”

I think that only the incurably naive would be surprised that the ‘Allies’ are the perpetrators themselves!
The executive director of the Council on American-Islamic Relationst made “a call that went beyond mere condemnation of the attack, and one that bridged a delicate divide between the Muslim advocates’ support for individual rights and their own religion’s strictures on homosexuality”, when he described the separate struggles for equality being waged by gays and Muslims as “profoundly linked.”
“Homophobia, transphobia, and Islamophobia are interconnected systems of oppression and we cannot dismantle one without dismantling the others,” said Nihad Awad, who is also a founder of CAIR, the nation’s largest Muslim advocacy group…
Speaking at the June 13 press conference, Awad said that in America, gays and lesbians had supported the Muslim community. “Members of the LGBTQIA community have stood shoulder to shoulder with the Muslim community,” Awad said. “Today we stand with them, shoulder to shoulder.”
Read more: http://forward.com/news/342643/cair-leader-fight-for-liberty-for-gays-and-muslims-profoundly-linked/#ixzz4BVl14Khp

They forgot to add to the list of phobias the anti-semitism. I have little doubts that this slip will be corrected soon.

But who are the enemies? It’s not a hard guess:
“Christian conservatives are responsible for the mass shooting at a gay bar in Orlando because they “created this anti-queer climate,” according to American Civil Liberties Union attorneys.
“You know what is gross — your thoughts and prayers and Islamophobia after you created this anti-queer climate,” ACLU staff attorney Chase Strangio tweeted on Sunday morning.”

Now they can demand ‘protection’. The good example, highly praised by the “West’, was given by the Pride parade in Kiev, where 6000 police were mobilized to shield the 700 participants holding “KyivPride” placards and banners bearing the slogan “LGBT rights are human rights.”
“EuroMaidan was not only against (former President Viktor) Yanukovich, it was against corruption and for human rights as well,” said lawmaker Serhiy Leshchenko at the march.”
Alas, “critics say homophobic attitudes remain widespread.” Even ” Volodymyr Groysman, who is now Prime Minister, tried to reassure doubters by saying Ukraine would never support gay marriage.”
Would we hear that Putin was behind the massacre?

I don’t have one. Let’s see if together we can form a reasonable view.

Let’s start with the basic first question. Before there can be a murder declared, there must be a body. Has anyone seen on TV or in newspapers pictures of dead bodies? Bodies should be readily available if the reports are correct that fifty people were killed and 50 or more were wounded and in hospital.

I cannot bear the presstitute TV and print media. These are full-time propaganda organizations. Hopefully, some of you hold your nose and watch the news and can fill in the spaces. Has anything we have been told been confirmed by any real evidence?

Initially, I saw a CNN newscast and a RT report. The reports were heavy with verbiage of blood being all over the place, but the only visual evidence offered were three people, supposedly injured, being helped, not by medics or first responders, but by ordinary folks. A couple of people were helping a guy with tattoos in place of a shirt, but there was no sign of blood. Several people were helping people in police uniforms to carry a person who they dumped in the back of a pickup truck, not in the cab. About 6 people were carrying a person stretched out prone (no stretcher) down a street.

There was no blood and it looked like a crisis acting performance. Why prone? Is an injured person really able to keep his body stiff so that he can be carried along prone parallel to the ground? Where are they taking him? Is this just a camera walk-by? http://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2016/06/12/orlando-nightclub-shooting-witness-sot.cnn/video/playlists/orlando-nightclub-shooting/ [1] What has become of the protocol that untrained people are not to attempt to help injured people? When police arrive at a scene, they usually run off bystanders, not recruit them to assist their activities or allow them to carry away the wounded and dead.

Readers have noticed that the visual evidence does not match the verbal reports. Readers report that Fox “News” and MSNBC repeatedly show the same footage described above of bystanders carrying supposedly injured victims whose facial expressions are completely unstressed and show no pain, fear, or blood.

So has anyone seen any dead bodies? Any body bags? Any wounded taken to hospitals in ambulances? Any of the hospital wounded interviewed by TV reporters? Has any reporter checked with the morgue?

Allegedly, people inside the massacre location made cell phone calls and texted. But no one took photos or videos? Are there no security cameras? No doormen to notice a heavily armed person enter?

With 50 people killed and 50 or more wounded and reports of oceans of blood, there should be plenty of evidence Have any of you seen any of it?

The notorious G4s is a British multinational private security company, the world’s largest by revenue. It has already been exposed as having ties with Israel, and the security-intellignece apparatus of the US-UK-Zionist axis (CIA, MI6, Mossad). For instance, G4S was helping Israel with its prisons before recently pulling out due to unfavorable publicity (thanks to the BD…. It is therefore rather intriguing that the suspected mass killer/shooter (or patsy) Omar Mateen, a 29 year old Muslim man, has been a G4S employee since 2007. Here is the official statement from G4S:

“Omar Mateen was employed by G4S at a residential community in South Florida and was off-duty at the time of the incident. Mateen was subject to detailed company screening when he was recruited in 2007 …”

G4S is connected to 9/11 and Guantanamo too, as this article on Washington’s Blog states:

“Previously called Securicor, G4S provided security at all three airports affected by the 9/11 attacks. Securicor/G4S had bought Argenbright Security—the 9/11 airport security firm—just nine months before the 9/11 attacks. The company later ran operations at Guantanamo Bay.”

PC Roberts (thanks for the link, JamesW) does ask a few fundamental questions which have not been answered so far – and of course never will be answered.

We have to ask ourselves if any of the information we are being fed with, is believable. So, the perpetrator was a wife beater? He himself is gay? Mentally unstable? He himself called 911 “to declare his allegiance to Daesh”? – How convenient.

Please listen to Nikolai Starikov’s rant on “Self identifying terrorists”. It’s already 2 months old, and it will rob you of 5 minutes of your time. But I promise, you will not be disappointed. Besides being a hilarious piece of rhetoric, it will give you all the answers you need.

“The Director General of Yezidi (Ezidi) Affairs in the Kurdistan Region stated on Sunday that no sources confirm that Islamic State (IS) insurgents have burnt 11 Kurdish Ezidi women to death for refusing to have sex with them.

The Kurdish Ezidi city of Sinjar (Shingal) is located in the north of Iraq, southwest of the Kurdistan Region. In August 2014, IS took control of the city and enslaved Ezidi women and sold them in Mosul and Raqqa markets, in their stronghold locations.

On Nov. 14, 2015, Shingal was liberated by Kurdish Peshmerga forces with the support of the international coalition airstrikes.

Recently, reports released on different news outlets claim that IS extremists have reportedly burnt 19 Ezidi women to death for refusing to have sex with them.

Weeks ago, an eyewitness told ARA News Agency that the Ezidi women were burning to death inside iron cages while hundreds of people were watching, but no one could save them.

The Director General of Ezidi Affairs in the Kurdistan Regional Government (KRG) Khairi Bozani released a statement on his official Facebook account.

Bozani said that officials have been trying to gather information for five days about the incident, but there are no sources to confirm it.

Bozani also stated that they are not confident about the reliability of the reports.

On June 6, 2016, Bozani sent a harsh message to the Secretary-General of the United Nations Ban Ki-moon and rejected his statement about Ezidis paying ransom to IS to free the abducted women”

When comparing apples and oranges, we should be certain one is an apple and one is an orange.

I was really shocked to see you, Saker, advocate for the gun lobby. I personally am very happy that guns are not a common thing in Russia. To think that the more guns there are among the general population, the better is a nonsense for most Russians and I completely agree. It is sad to see you among the gun propagators, but I guess nobody’s perfect. Be safe. Доброго Вам здравия.

I noticed a few Russian commentators here are critical of the Saker’s position on gun ownership. I think Saker has become Americanised in that sense. Alas. His position also appears to be unshakable, which is a great shame.

Yeah, the Saker sounds a lot like a shill for the NRA (National Rifle Association). However, this is one point of “American Exceptionalism” where I agree with the Saker.

Actually I mostly agree with the Saker when he rejects most of the other points of “American Exceptionalism”, though I’m completely American and don’t have any relation to Russia beyond curiosity. My point of view is informed by my own spiritual experience from my own faith tradition which is not Orthodox as Saker’s is, but maybe it is more similar than not, as it is based on the teachings of Christ.

He claims to be a Roman Catholic – a religion that also condenms homosexual behaviour.

So does orthodox Judaeism.

Yet the believers of those religions are not advocating murder on the basis of sin.

Breitbart’s self-designated ‘dangerous faggot’ is a bog-standard rabble-rouser. And the site itself, pace some occasionally rational conservative articles, is mostly a screaming zio-rag, dedicated to the promotion of ‘eretz Israel’ and the annihilation of Muslims in general.

Your article is a very good take on the situation but I have a question…

Doesn’t it seem just too damn convenient that a “muslim terrorist ” just happens to attack the poor persecuted gays during their pride week in the midst of 200+ religious freedom bills being passed or voted on around the US? Surely, if Europe has taught us anything, it’s that Danesh’s targets are wayyyyyyy more significant.

It’s all based on getting a lot of the sheep like people to hand over their only Right that backs their Power of the People here in the United States, and of which is our great 2ND AMENDMENT. And with NO more great 2ND AMENDMENT- We the People of the United States would have NO more Power of the People in the United States. We’d be a totally powerless people, due to the fact that we would NO longer have anything backing our Power of the People and we’d be a powerless people. Which is why liberals should stop and learn real hard about what it is that they are trying to do to the People of the United States- which is pretty much to actually crucify us as a People and a Country. I am trying to warn you of this for your own good too. Think about it, far more people are criminally killed by a vehicle, than by a Gun. Yet do you see anyone running around trying to get rid of vehicles? I said CRIMINALLY KILLED, that’s NOT killed by accident! Yet all these hypocrites run around trying to take away our Guns and Power of the People- gee I wonder why? Wake up People, they are trying to make us a powerless people, and such is a FACT! Be a wise person and do NOT bow to it. Unless you’d really have the desire to be a powerless slave people.

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