posted at 5:31 pm on October 26, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

It apparently all started when an advice columnist at Slate (not exactly a bastion of whacko, right wing social conservatism) had the temerity to suggest that perhaps young girls headed off to college should be warned about the dangers of binge drinking when they first leave home, and the types of predators out there who would seek to prey on pretty young coeds in such compromised positions. These can be tough conversations for parents to have with their daughters before sending them out into the world of higher education, so you can imagine that – particularly coming from their own bullpen – left side, feminist audiences would be grateful for the helpful tips.

The message of Emily Yoffe’s Slate article about binge drinking and sexual assault on college campuses was as important as it was obvious: The best step that young women can take to protect themselves is to stop drinking to excess.

Young women everywhere — not to mention their mothers — ought to be thanking Yoffe. Instead, she’s being pilloried.

A “rape denialism manifesto” full of “plain old victim-blaming,” Lori Adelman wrote on the feminist blog Feministing.com. Erin Gloria Ryan, on Jezebel.com, accused Yoffe of “admonishing women for not doing enough to stop their own rapes.”

Argued Yoffe’s Slate colleague Amanda Hess, “We can prevent the most rapes on campus by putting our efforts toward finding and punishing those perpetrators, not by warning their huge number of potential victims to skip out on parties.”

Excuse me, but no one’s suggesting that our daughters should be holed up in the library studying every night, forswearing any semblance of a social life. Yoffe (disclosure: she’s a close friend) is saying that the responsible advice is the one that I’ve been trying to impart for years to my now-teenage daughters: When you drink (because, let’s be serious, they’re not waiting until 21), don’t drink too much.

For taking the trouble to try to gently clear the air of any misunderstandings – such as “nobody is trying to blame the girl here” – Marcus was richly rewarded. That reward came to the tune of more than a thousand comments in short order, many echoing the sentiments expressed by the enraged feminists at Salon’s comment section.

This has to be one of the crazier things I’ve ever seen, and I have to read a lot of tripe on this job. I don’t think there’s anyone here who doesn’t understand that if you grab a passed out or incoherent college freshman, drag her away and rape her, you are a sick animal who needs to be put down. But by the same token, it is a sadly known fact that we do live in a world where some sick animals are still on the loose. Where is the insult or injury in attempting to advise children heading away from home for the first time on some of the ways to best avoid danger in as much as possible while still being able to enjoy their lives?

If two people rush into a lion’s den and one decided to wear a dress made out of thinly sliced prime rib, she’s probably the one who is going to get eaten. This isn’t blaming the girl… it’s teaching her not to be the one wearing the Lady Gaga meat dress. But apparently offering any sort of parental advice on risk avoidance and minimization is crossing a line for some people. Maybe it’s a tacit admission there are parents who fail to do a good enough job preparing their children for the world. Perhaps it’s viewed as depriving their young freshmen offspring their “rights” to go out for the “fun” of “having a few too many” which is a “right of passage.” (I actually saw that one in one of the comments. I couldn’t make that up if I tried.)

Welcome to 21st century parenting, where it clearly Takes a Village to raise your daughter. Sadly, the village now seems to be populated by a majority of Village Idiots.

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If I had a male friend that owned a shop and he took home large sums of cash every night, I would tell him to stop and, if that was not possible, to take protected, lighted routes, not keep the cash in one huge roll, and certainly not to flash it around.

Does that mean that I hate by male friend or would blame him if he got robbed?

Of course not, but taking common sense precautions is not assigning one blame for being a victim. It is to decrease the odds OF becoming a victim.

I tell people to wear their seatbelts and not to drink and drive. I don’t hate them. I want to reduce the odds of them being harmed or harming someone else.

These feminists look for ANYTHING in which to scream ‘War on Women!’ and ‘Misogynist!’

If you don’t lock your doors, you might not be morally responsible for the robbery (but Lead us not into temptation?) but your insurance won’t pay for a loss that basic prudence would have prevented.

If you help someone who means to hurt you, you may or may not be evil. But you are almost certainly a fool. I suppose that feminism means the right to do foolish and dangerous things without consequences, but we need to make the case in these terms, over and over.

So when I advise new female co-workers to have someone walk them to their car after-hours I’m warring on women?
Full disclosure: I advise new male co-workers of the neighborhood status; if they need to have someone walk them to their car then perhaps they need to work elsewhere.

MONTPELIER, Vt. — MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — As states open insurance marketplaces amid uncertainty about whether they’re a solution for health care, Vermont is eyeing a bigger goal, one that more fully embraces a government-funded model.

The state has a planned 2017 launch of the nation’s first universal health care system, a sort of modified Medicare-for-all that has long been a dream for many liberals.

The plan is especially ambitious in the current atmosphere surrounding health care in the United States. Republicans in Congress balk at the federal health overhaul years after it was signed into law. States are still negotiating their terms for implementing it. And some major employers have begun to drastically limit their offerings of employee health insurance, raising questions about the future of the industry altogether.

In such a setting, Vermont’s plan looks more and more like an anomaly. It combines universal coverage with new cost controls in an effort to move away from a system in which the more procedures doctors and hospitals perform, the more they get paid, to one in which providers have a set budget to care for a set number of patients.

The result will be health care that’s “a right and not a privilege,” Gov. Peter Shumlin said.

So when I advise new female co-workers to have someone walk them to their car after-hours I’m warring on women?
Full disclosure: I advise new male co-workers of the neighborhood status; if they need to have someone walk them to their car then perhaps they need to work elsewhere.

This is new. Brought a girl to my house once and she was so out of it had I touched her she would have never known the difference. I was cold sober. Had to pour her into her dorm. There were no second dates. About 1970+/-.

Actually, avoiding binge drinking would be good advice for either sex.

Curmudgeon on October 26, 2013 at 6:18 PM

True. But anecedotally it seems the gals are the ones who become binge drinkers more often than the males. That certainly is what my observations showed. Not all females, mind you, but we all knew which ones were the lushes.

Let’s see, girl gets drunk and she is completetly not responsible for her actions and is a victim. Guy gets drunk and he is completely responsible for his actions and is a predator. Feminist logic 101.

Sums up a straw-man argument pretty well, but it doesn’t relate to the post in any way.

Axe on October 26, 2013 at 6:23 PM

I don’t know why you say that.

Women are told to be aware of their surroundings on the subway. Women are told to be aware of their surroundings when walking home late at night. Women are told to be aware of their surroundings to ensure somebody doesn’t put something in their drink at a bar.

Yet you are suggesting they get a pass to consequences when they become raging drunks??? WTF is up with that?

Face it…militant “feminists” would see every woman on a college campus raped, beaten and degraded…rather than have some old, white, misogynistic ‘authority figure’ suggest that women cannot drink as much as any man and do the same stupid things that men (boys) do.

This reminds me of some feminazi shrieking a while back about “slut shaming.”

Apparently, we’ve hit the apex of the “if it feels good, do it,” era that came out of the 60’s. Nobody can be criticized for any behavior anymore, lest you be “judgmental” or, in this case, “misogynist.”

Yet some sit back and show no concern at all for the moral degradation of our society.

Let’s see, girl gets drunk and she is completetly not responsible for her actions and is a victim. Guy gets drunk and he is completely responsible for his actions and is a predator. Feminist logic 101.

Women are told to be aware of their surroundings on the subway. Women are told to be aware of their surroundings when walking home late at night. Women are told to be aware of their surroundings to ensure somebody doesn’t put something in their drink at a bar.

Yet you are suggesting they get a pass to consequences when they become raging drunks??? WTF is up with that?

Happy Nomad on October 26, 2013 at 6:29 PM

Me? No. Your post went wall to wall:

1. The people suggesting women and men are the same (are equal in every way) would be the people arguing that women can pass out wherever they want and are not responsible for anything that happens to them;

2. The people suggesting women become “wilting violets unable to even sniff alcohol without getting the vapors” would be the people arguing that women should never touch alcohol in public or bear the consequences of their depravity;

–both are exaggerations and sit on opposite ends of the argument. I thought you did it on purpose. I guess I don’t understand you. You seem to be taking both sides of the argument at once.

Just because I, an old white guy, should be able walk down the street in SE DC or the West Side of Chicago doesn’t mean it would be a smart thing to do. Someone giving advice not to do that would not be a racist. I know quite few black people who give that advice and not only that wouldn’t do it themselves.

Here is some good advice offered by most self defense gurus: Avoid doing stupid things with stupid people in dangerous places. That is all Yoffe is saying.

My son in law is into that whole “it takes a village” crap too. At a luncheon last summer after my granddaughter’s christening he got up to toast the attendants and said “it takes a village, blah, blah, blah.” I had to point out to him later, in private, that the people at the table weren’t “the village” but his freaking FAMILY! The Village doesn’t care about your daughter, and may very well abuse her. The Family raises, and protects her.

MONTPELIER, Vt. — MONTPELIER, Vt. (AP) — As states open insurance marketplaces amid uncertainty about whether they’re a solution for health care, Vermont is eyeing a bigger goal, one that more fully embraces a government-funded model.
[…]

Axe on October 26, 2013 at 6:08 PM

Not quite everyone is on board with this. The real original Vermonters lean more towards a libertarian “the government should just get out of my way and leave me the hell alone” ethic, as witnessed by the lack of firearms restrictions. But, as with so many other nice places to live, the influx of moonbats has totally shifted the balance.

Let’s see, girl gets drunk and she is completetly not responsible for her actions and is a victim. Guy gets drunk and he is completely responsible for his actions and is a predator. Feminist logic 101.

major dad on October 26, 2013 at 6:25 PM

A shorter version:

A girl gets drunk, hooks up, and then is known as a “woman exercising her reproductive rights” as she slinks into an abortion clinic.

Take note, women. Even you on the left – if you’ve not yet succumb to the bat-shit craziness of the left, observe, and remember well exactly who it is that is more than willing to sacrifice you, your daughters, your friends, and more, in the name of their profoundly moronic and dangerous ideology.

Or, you could nonsensically choose to believe these same people when they tell you that someone is trying to outlaw contraceptives or something else that you’ve *never* heard anyone remotely suggest.

As the parent of 3, now young adults, children, I warned them all not to drink too much. For the boys, it takes away some of their judgement regarding the drunk girls coming on to them. Because when two people have been drinking, and they have sex, and the girl has regrets the next day, the boy will have his life ruined with a sex assault charge while she will go on to freely drink too much again.

For my daughter, the lesson was never to put herself in a situation where something bad could happen to her. That means not walking across campus or town, alone, at 2am. That means not going to a party and drinking so much that you lose control.

In my opinion as a mother, if both parties have been drinking, no criminals charges should apply, they are both guilty of stupidity.

Not quite everyone is on board with this. The real original Vermonters lean more towards a libertarian “the government should just get out of my way and leave me the hell alone” ethic, as witnessed by the lack of firearms restrictions. But, as with so many other nice places to live, the influx of moonbats has totally shifted the balance.

bofh on October 26, 2013 at 7:33 PM

Cool, the resistance. :) Thanks for the link — it’s interesting. The fight seems pretty pure, so there’s not so much guile to sift through.

— Sorry about the carpet baggers. I’m getting worried about Texas (next door). They weren’t perfect to begin with (unless you ask them), and the wagons just keep coming. :) I figure it’s only a matter of time.

Actually, avoiding binge drinking would be good advice for either sex.

Curmudgeon on October 26, 2013 at 6:18 PM

Quoted for truth.

I’m in my tenth year as a sex crimes investigator with an urban police department in a college town of about 300,000. The “Jack- The- Ripper” scenario, with a stranger dragging a woman into an alley (or what Whoopi Goldberg so inartfully referred to as “rape- rape”) is blessedly rare. We get less than ten of those of a year.

Our bread and butter is the drunken college hook- up. Girl goes to fraternity party. Girl drinks herself into oblivion. Girl wakes up with a strange guy and no memory of how she got into his bed. Girl goes home, commiserates with her roomies, calls the Rape Crisis line, decides she must have been raped because she would never have drunken sex with a guy she just met, and goes to the hospital to seek a police report and a sexual assault examination.

Their stories are always the same. “I had six shots, but I’ve drank a lot more than that and been fine! I must have been drugged!” This from a woman 5 feet tall who weighs 108 lbs.

Or “Well, everything was going okay. He seemed like a really nice guy and we were just on the couch, making out, but I told him before we started that I didn’t want to have sex, so when he took off my panties, he should have known that was over the line, even though I didn’t actually say anything. He just should have known that I wasn’t comfortable with it.”

Or “Well, everything was going okay. He seemed like a really nice guy and we were just on the couch, making out, but I told him before we started that I didn’t want to have sex, so when he took off my panties, he should have known that was over the line, even though I didn’t actually say anything. He just should have known that I wasn’t comfortable with it.”

This is our future.

Dukeboy01 on October 26, 2013 at 9:25 PM

I have to disagree with you making this particular scenario out to be the girl’s fault. This is victim-blaming.

Society – including conservative, Christian culture (I should know I was raised in it), teaches young women to be passive, sweet, submissive little doormats, to put not hurting a man’s feelings above their own feelings/ needs/ security, that conflict is bad, never say “No” to people.

So you arrive at your teens and 20s with no idea how to get out of testy situations like that one, with some guy pushing you sexually but you not knowing how to say no, if you can say no, if it’s okay to say no.

Women and girls are really deeply encouraged by some conservative (and religious) families to be very, very codependent.

Girls raised in homes like that don’t know what boundaries are, or, if they have a faint clue as to what one is, they don’t know how to maintain them, enforce them, and how to stand up to people.

Some men (and women) can sense if they are around a “low boundary” non assertive person and push her. I do think women like that have been raped. They want to say ‘no’ but don’t know how, or even if they do say “no”, the guy in question does not take their no seriously enough.

Culture tries to instill in females to be nice at the expense of their own safety, which is how and why some adult women have been raped, and why some girls end up in situations like the one you describe.

See books like “The Gift of Fear” by Gavin DeBecker for more on that, and books by therapists who talk about codependency.

There is really nothing unbelievable about this liberal response – its along the same vain as their views on defending oneself:

“The Police will always be at my beckon call to save me from criminals wishing to commit violent acts.”

…although the Police usually show up just in time to scrape up what is left of the victim.

PermanentWaves on October 26, 2013 at 11:39 PM

Camille Paglia has been dealing with this nonsense from feminists for years. She really got it for pointing this out about Matthew Shepard:

The barbaric acts that led to the death of Matthew Shepard in 1998 deserved a very severe penalty, which has been applied. Although I am a supporter of the death penalty in extreme cases, I think there were ambiguities here: The aimless hooligans who beat Shepard and tied him to a fence perhaps didn’t necessarily mean to kill him. Despite my abhorrence of the crime, I was a dissenter about the sanctification of Shepard, a charming young man with a troubled family background who had faced many difficulties in life because of his frailty and lack of conventional masculinity.

Only a week before, Shepard had expressed fears about being killed. Given that apprehension, it is still inexplicable — if the case is examined only through a political lens — why Shepard would leave a public place in the company of such blatant thugs. A hate crimes law that claims to be able to penetrate the mind of the perpetrator should be equally open to questions about the victim. If, out of fairness or pity, one avenue of inquiry is shut down, then the other must be too.

Pure feminist claptrap, and nonsensical to boot. Your supposed explanation is just another example of trying to pin the blame for women’s collective lack of judgement on Christianity and men.

And just to blow another hole in your argument, there’s no way that a good Christian girl who can’t say no would ever be at a booze party, if indeed she even exists. The problem with today’s youth isn’t that they won’t speak up, it’s that they won’t shut up.

Girls raised in homes like that don’t know what boundaries are, or, if they have a faint clue as to what one is, they don’t know how to maintain them, enforce them, and how to stand up to people. — TigerPaw

So what? The guy should go to jail because the girl was more likely than other girls to not verbalize any limits; all the while saying “yes” with her behavior at every base from first to home? Not in a sane world.

But young men should not rape young women. That’s the main point. Stop apologizing for these monsters that pass as men. Stop infantilizing young men as being unable to control themselves. Stop encouraging their behavior by saying that the girls should have done a, b, c. Start telling them to NOT RAPE WOMEN. Is that so difficult? Hold them accountable when they do, even if they play a stupid sport for a team you love.

Girls are already made aware of what they should be doing to protect themselves. These ideas are not NEW. Stop acting like you’ve just had some bright idea about how a woman can avoid being attacked because, hey, you haven’t and, hey, it can happen anywhere at anytime. Even to nuns in churches.

A woman doesn’t have to be drunk, at a party, or dressed a certain way to get raped. How many times does this need to be repeated?

You are all apologists for young men attacking young women. Sickening.

And when a young woman has been sexually assaulted reads theses things mostly posted by CONSERVATIVE GROWN MEN who should know better… I guess you don’t need her vote anyway right? She’s barely human to you in the first place.

But young women should not blame their bad decisions on men. That’s the main point. Stop apologizing for these booze tramps that pass as women. Stop infantilizing young women as being unable to control themselves. Stop encouraging their behavior by saying that the men should have done a, b, c. Start telling them to GROW UP AND USE GOOD JUDGEMENT. Is that so difficult? Hold them accountable when they do, even if they’re young and cure and you like seeing them in bikinis on spring break..

Yeah, men shouldn’t rape. But burglars shouldn’t burgle and carjackers shouldn’t jack cars, and HIV+ people shouldn’t have bareback sex with people who do not know their status. Guess what? It happens anyway. The fact that someone “shouldn’t” do something doesn’t mean that people who leave their cars running with the keys in the ignition, or leave their doors unlocked with all their fancy electronic gear visible through the window, or who engage in unprotected intercourse with people they don’t know well, should be patted on the back and applauded for their good decision-making. As someone posted up thread, any punishment the rapist (what would that be, anyway? Getting thrown out of school? Getting an admonition in his permanent record? Maybe a few months in jail as a first-time offender?) would get pales in comparison to the lifetime sentence the victim receives, yet you would rather see her suffer just to prove a point. And you call US “sickening”!

No one on this post has made the ludicrous assumption that if women stopped drinking, rape would disappear. There are still some cases of strangers attacking in dark alleys (although rapes of nuns are so rare they are newsworthy). But talk to any counselor at a taxpayer-funded rape crisis hotline, and she will tell you that most if not all of the calls she gets involve consuming alcohol to excess. It makes perfect sense to use that as a starting point.

Of course, that’s not the only risible point you make. You also accuse us of thinking we’re reinvented the rape wheel (never said that, but good advice–and the giving of it–never goes out of style), that we sympathize with rapists (when in fact we want to make sure there are fewer of them by removing the opportunity), we are all conservative grown men (true, not too many children post here, but I and many of the commenters above are chicks), and that we think of rape victims as not human (which is rich, coming from a person who would rather see the guy prosecuted than see the woman not raped at all), and that women’s safety isn’t important to us because they don’t vote for Conservatives. Jeez, talk about sickening!!

As an addendum to this very good advice, sons should also be advised not to binge drink or over drink.

Men are not inherently rapists, yet drinking, college drinking with buddies and lots of drunk girls and impaired judgment can create an environment where a young man thinks rape is the right way to go here.

herrevery on October 27, 2013 at 2:29 AM
A woman doesn’t have to be drunk, at a party, or dressed a certain way to get raped. How many times does this need to be repeated?

Haha, uh none? Yet, we have Chuck Schumer and others whinging about poor widdle grrls, strong young independent womyn that are getting “raped” after drinking “FourLoko” type drinks and thus they get that drink banned at the Fed level for mixing booze and caffeine. Then you had even some Repubs at the state levels (Iowa) calling for a ban of mixed drinks altogether. All because a few drunken freshmen sluts woke up one morning after a party in Washington state with guilt over what they’d done.

It is unfortunate that the mantra of “don’t blame the victim” has segued into ” girls can’t be expected to be held responsible for their behavior but somehow young men can.

Is also unfortunate that in the name of empowerment we now tell our daughters they have the RIGHT to step in front of that speeding train because the conductor should see them soon enough to hit the brakes.

Women should not put themselves in danger and then whine when something bad happens.

See, the inclusion of the word “but” in there means you are setting this in opposition to the advice you mention just above it.

Stop apologizing for these monsters that pass as men.

I didn’t read every comment, but I certainly didn’t see anyone doing that.

Start telling them to NOT RAPE WOMEN.

How does the above advice (for women not to place themselves in vulnerable situations) mutually exclude this advice? Is there anyone here advocating the opposite of this advice? See, the world inside your head can’t grasp the idea of mutual responsibility.

Girls are already made aware of what they should be doing to protect themselves.

Really? Because, based on the reaction to the Slate article, it appears they are being told everything but that.

A woman doesn’t have to be drunk, at a party, or dressed a certain way to get raped. How many times does this need to be repeated?

She *does* have to be in a situation where it can occur, however. And she must be controlled in some fashion (violence, drugs, giving up her volition via binge drinking). If she avoids those things when she can, she will very likely avoid ever being raped.

You are all apologists for young men attacking young women. Sickening.

FU.

I guess you don’t need her vote anyway right?

herrevery on October 27, 2013 at 2:29 AM

I don’t go looking for votes based on demographics, I go looking to convince people on the soundness of the principles. So do most conservatives.

BTW, I would put good money on a bet that you think a woman can invite a man into her bedroom, have drunken sex all night, then regret it in the morning and cry “RAPE!”

Sorry I am so late to the party (hmm, pun not intended), but some of the comments here really tick me off.

First, Bubba Redneck, most of the people doing this are under 21, which already makes it illegal. No one is suggested a law be changed, but they are already aren’t supposed to be drinking. And why not? Because of things like the very topic of this article! People under 21 tend to be morons in the best of circumstances, and drinking only makes that much worse.

Second, no one at any age should be binge drinking, or drinking until they pass out, or any other over drinking. Yes, it is partially my morals speaking. But it is also common sense. People can jump off of low cliffs into water. It’s fun and has low risk if you take precautions. Does that mean I’m suggesting you jump off a 200 foot cliff into a small body of water that you don’t even know the depth of? No, that’s stupid. Just like drinking until you pass out. A few drinks to help you relax and enjoy an evening is one thing. Drinking until you don’t remember what you did, or you pass out, or spend the evening puking, is just stupid.

Third, in no way does suggesting that college coeds have enough sense to watch how impaired they get immediately imply that the young men are somehow excused from their actions. Rather, the bottom line is their are very few people on the planet that have your back, and it is likely that none of them are at college with you. For the first time in your life, you are on your own. That is when you have to watch out for yourself. Sorry, but the fact is this is a dangerous world. Not everyone, not everywhere, and not always, but you don’t know who or where or when, so you have to always be alert and protect yourself. If you forget that at the wrong time you become a victim. At that point, it makes no difference how morally right you are, you are still a victim.

They were looking at two kinds of rape – the first being stranger rape which is usually opportunistic and violent. There is very little a woman can do to prevent being targeted (though there is evidence in other studies that by being armed she can at least defend herself).

The other type – acquaintance rape – was found to have an extremely high correlation with the girl being plastered. By reducing your drinking you can greatly reduce your likelihood of being targeted. There doesn’t seem to be anything hateful and anti-woman at all in telling women how to protect themselves. Is it ‘anti-woman’ to tell them how to protect themselves from HIV/AIDS? After all, we’re asking them to engage in specific types of ‘safe sex’. How is that any different than recommending that they engage in ‘safe drinking’ or ‘safe partying’?

It combines universal coverage with new cost controls in an effort to move away from a system in which the more procedures doctors and hospitals perform, the more they get paid, to one in which providers have a set budget to care for a set number of patients.

The result will be health care that’s “a right and not a privilege,” Gov. Peter Shumlin said.

In other words, you have a right to health care until we run out of money.