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Flappy Paddle is the one true shifter. [Car] Thread.

Posts

I love the Juke. So much that I own one! It's one of the few cars where adding the factory spoiler actually makes it look complete. I got the metallic blue one and I get nothing but compliments on it in real life (but on the internet everyone masks their secret jealousy by saying lolaztek, always and forever)

Curious how is the gas mileage you are getting in the Juke. Some of the early reports were showing some alarmingly dismal gas mileage for such a small car.

with a lead foot I'm getting around 9.5L/100km combined which according to google is about 25mpg. Not great I know, but it's not terrible either. This has been with a gummed up evap control solenoid. Every time I bring it to the dealership mechanic they pretend to "have a look at it", reset the error codes and tell me that there's nothing wrong "You probably just didn't tighten the gas cap all the way." I need the car to get to work so I've just been driving with it the way it is for a few months

edit: re: $600k Juke-R, my plan is to just smuggle an abandoned one back from Dubai with me in a few months. . .

edit 2: That poor, poor lotus!

Lotus and RX8 money? you could probably get something exotic like a ferrari 512TR, or a different Miata for every day of the week. . .

Buying an old Ferrari is one of those things that seems like a good idea until something breaks or needs repair and the resulting maintenance costs are astronomical.

What kind of trade in value do the Lotus and RX-8 have? Something like a Subaru BRZ or whatever the Scion version is called would definitely be in the price range if you want another lightweight nimble sports car. Alternatively, you might be in used 911 or Cayman territory, or even further afield a 2012-2013 Mustang GT.

Why would you take the parts of a 90k car and shove it into a Juke? I can understand people trying to make performance improvements upon their juke, but if you want the performance of a GT-R buy a goddamn GT-R. Or slap some turbos and a good suspension on the Juke without transplanting an entire other car into it.

This is how I feel.

And I would take a GT-R in a heartbeat. After watching Clarkson drive it on Top Gear and saying it was probably the most complete super car he'd ever driven, at 89 grand. It's actually a super car within reach of me as a common upper middle class guy later in life, with some saving.

In a few years you'll be able to buy a used one in the 30-40k price range. Lotsa 80-100k Porsches and BMWs from 5-10 years ago are now in that price range.

And I probably will consider doing just that. I'm just not sure you can get the amount of car the GT-R gives you, at that price point. It's loaded with crazy tech, fast as hell, corners like it's on rails, and looks amazing to boot.

Buying an old Ferrari is one of those things that seems like a good idea until something breaks or needs repair and the resulting maintenance costs are astronomical.

What kind of trade in value do the Lotus and RX-8 have? Something like a Subaru BRZ or whatever the Scion version is called would definitely be in the price range if you want another lightweight nimble sports car. Alternatively, you might be in used 911 or Cayman territory, or even further afield a 2012-2013 Mustang GT.

The new Mustang is actually quite a beast of a car. Guy down the street has a 2012 GT, and the thing sounds like a monster. Plus Ford finally realized that you need to put a decent suspension in a modern sports car, so it's not like driving a wild beast like the early 2000's GT's were (I had a 2001 GT, getting that thing to step out was as natural as breathing).

Buying an old Ferrari is one of those things that seems like a good idea until something breaks or needs repair and the resulting maintenance costs are astronomical.

What kind of trade in value do the Lotus and RX-8 have? Something like a Subaru BRZ or whatever the Scion version is called would definitely be in the price range if you want another lightweight nimble sports car. Alternatively, you might be in used 911 or Cayman territory, or even further afield a 2012-2013 Mustang GT.

I'd imagine 13k for the RX8, and about 25K for the Lotus.

Been thinking about buying (used) a Viper / V8 Vantage. Been on the low end of the HP range for a while, perhaps it is time for a change. 38K down on a 60K car easily makes it affordable (which would be around 400-ish a month).

Why would you take the parts of a 90k car and shove it into a Juke? I can understand people trying to make performance improvements upon their juke, but if you want the performance of a GT-R buy a goddamn GT-R. Or slap some turbos and a good suspension on the Juke without transplanting an entire other car into it.

This is how I feel.

And I would take a GT-R in a heartbeat. After watching Clarkson drive it on Top Gear and saying it was probably the most complete super car he'd ever driven, at 89 grand. It's actually a super car within reach of me as a common upper middle class guy later in life, with some saving.

You have to take what Clarkson says with a large amount of salt. He uses hyperbole all the friken time. On the other hand I'm sure it is an amazing car.

Really, I don't know what the hell I would do with a car like that. I would feel like I would be wasting its potential. You could never push it on the roads and I certainly don't have the skill to push it all that hard on a track. Even if I did take it out to a track I would be too scared to drive hard. I think I would rather spend the money on a lower priced performance car (like an evo) and a lot of race schools.

Why would you take the parts of a 90k car and shove it into a Juke? I can understand people trying to make performance improvements upon their juke, but if you want the performance of a GT-R buy a goddamn GT-R. Or slap some turbos and a good suspension on the Juke without transplanting an entire other car into it.

This is how I feel.

And I would take a GT-R in a heartbeat. After watching Clarkson drive it on Top Gear and saying it was probably the most complete super car he'd ever driven, at 89 grand. It's actually a super car within reach of me as a common upper middle class guy later in life, with some saving.

You have to take what Clarkson says with a large amount of salt. He uses hyperbole all the friken time. On the other hand I'm sure it is an amazing car.

Really, I don't know what the hell I would do with a car like that. I would feel like I would be wasting its potential. You could never push it on the roads and I certainly don't have the skill to push it all that hard on a track. Even if I did take it out to a track I would be too scared to drive hard. I think I would rather spend the money on a lower priced performance car (like an evo) and a lot of race schools.

He does, but he was very clear, that to him the GT-R was the most complete package of the cars he was evaluating (and I don't remember exactly what the competition was...it was a middle of the road Ferrari and Lambo I believe, and maybe a DB9).

His point was that the GT-R wasn't as fast, or as over the top, or as testosterone inducing...but as a total package, it was a better car for the average person to have fun with, than either of the Italian pony's.

Buying an old Ferrari is one of those things that seems like a good idea until something breaks or needs repair and the resulting maintenance costs are astronomical.

What kind of trade in value do the Lotus and RX-8 have? Something like a Subaru BRZ or whatever the Scion version is called would definitely be in the price range if you want another lightweight nimble sports car. Alternatively, you might be in used 911 or Cayman territory, or even further afield a 2012-2013 Mustang GT.

The new Mustang is actually quite a beast of a car. Guy down the street has a 2012 GT, and the thing sounds like a monster. Plus Ford finally realized that you need to put a decent suspension in a modern sports car, so it's not like driving a wild beast like the early 2000's GT's were (I had a 2001 GT, getting that thing to step out was as natural as breathing).

I really really like the new Mustang, and if I had the money to buy a new car a GT would be at the top of my list. I have no issues with the solid rear axle, but I imagine in a few years when I can afford a new car it'll have independent rear suspension (and if I'm honest I'd like a good performance oriented dual clutch flappy paddle gear box).

Browsing through Nxcess Motorcars inventory they have nice selection of cars in the 40-60k range. The 2009 CLS63 AMG caught my eye, as did the 2006 Z06 and the 2005 911 S. I'm amazed the V8 Vantage and the DB9 have depreciated that much because at that price they seem like a decent value.

Honestly, if you want a quick fix of speed (and this is something I do regularly), go Go-Kart racing. At least for me, it's 90% of the fun of real track driving at 10% of the price - plus, I can go balls out because I'm renting the cart instead of worrying about my car.

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

Flappy paddle duel clutch setups make me sad precisely because I can drive a stick, and quite well. I know most of the important techniques, like heel toe and double clutch. Once you know how to really drive a stick, it does make the flappy paddle setups kind of boring.

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

I bought my Lotus not knowing how to drive stick. I was just honest with the sales guy, and I had a friend who knew how to drive stick drive it home (lucky day for him!). It was definitely worth it, although I will say I might have freaked out a couple of times stalling the car in intersections.

It was also really useful when it turned time to learn how to ride a motorcycle. So, don't worry about the embarassment - it couldn't be worse than anything I experienced stalling an "exotic 100K car" (lawl) in the middle of an intersection or at a stoplight. Everyone really stops to stare and look at you then =D

Some, although to be honest, the track near me is very suited for momentum cars, so I'm not having to downshift all that much. My track day excursions have been relatively expensive for me; the first one I went off on a corner at 90mph and became a lawnmower. Cracked the rocker panel on my passenger side ($$$).

The second time, I spun in a corner, and an Audi R8 V10 almost T-boned me (luckily, he didnt). It's hella fun, but I'm still inexperienced in true track driving.

Plus, it costs a lot of money to register for a track day, get the inspection, fix things that are wrong (and something is usually wrong or could be refreshed, like brake fluid), hotel, and driving.

I tend to keep it legal on public motorways now because I have a greater appreciation for how fast things can go wrong.

Flappy paddle duel clutch setups make me sad precisely because I can drive a stick, and quite well. I know most of the important techniques, like heel toe and double clutch. Once you know how to really drive a stick, it does make the flappy paddle setups kind of boring.

Driving stick is just super enjoyable; Ive been doing it for about 5-6 years now (Ive only been driving for about 10, if you include learners permit) and I still get way too much joy out of shifting gears. For instance, just yesterday I was making a wide left turn at about 10mph and made a quick shift from first to second as I accelerated to about 15mph (I was in a parking lot/college street) and the amount of joy I got from it is a little embarrassing. Normally Im pretty lazy with my shifting since driving a Civic has basically turned me into a hypermiler, so maybe that had something to do with it.

What exactly is double clutching? Shift into neutral, foot off clutch, foot back onto clutch, shift into next gear?

Yep, basically. The idea is to shift in to neutral, come off the clutch, rev match the engine, then re-engage in the lower gear. Heel toeing has the same goal, but is done by simply rev matching your shifts while braking. Both are intended as way to rev match the engine while shifting, which makes the shifts smooth and is good for the transmission.

In both cases, they are really only needed when performance driving, as both are meant as a way to not blow up your engine under aggressive down shifting. Rarely do you see either technique used to up shift (actually, you'd never see a heel toe up shift, but I've heard of people doing a double clutch up shift).

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

I bought my Lotus not knowing how to drive stick. I was just honest with the sales guy, and I had a friend who knew how to drive stick drive it home (lucky day for him!). It was definitely worth it, although I will say I might have freaked out a couple of times stalling the car in intersections.

It was also really useful when it turned time to learn how to ride a motorcycle. So, don't worry about the embarassment - it couldn't be worse than anything I experienced stalling an "exotic 100K car" (lawl) in the middle of an intersection or at a stoplight. Everyone really stops to stare and look at you then =D

When I bought my first stick in '93, I couldn't even drive it home too. My mom had that deal, and she taught me how to drive it that weekend. Two days in the high school parking lot and I was on the road, lol. And no, we wouldn't be ok with a four speed, hell I'd rather have the 6 speed than my 5 speed.

Honestly, if you want a quick fix of speed (and this is something I do regularly), go Go-Kart racing. At least for me, it's 90% of the fun of real track driving at 10% of the price - plus, I can go balls out because I'm renting the cart instead of worrying about my car.

This. It also consistently reminds me that I need to get a lot better before I could ever competently compete in the local go-kart track's league nights. The the best guys at my track do laps in 19.2(s) and I'm often struggling to break 21.0 That's right I'm a full 10% slower. :'(

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

Eh, don't worry too much about not knowing how to drive a manual. Just make sure you get some time to practice on someone else's car to make sure you can handle using it. Take the time and try driving it around and traffic.

This might be heresy here but sometimes I really hate driving a stick. The other night I went house shopping with my wife in the Miata and I about tore my hair out driving through crappy neighborhood streets for an hour. On the other hand my ridiculously stiff race suspension probably contributed to my annoyance. The thing is great when I go canyon carving but I rarely get a chance to do that these days. Most of my stick driving is in traffic.

CommunistCow on June 2012

No, I am not really communist. Yes, it is weird that I use this name.

0

ThomamelasOnly one man can kill this many Russians. Bring his guitar to me! Registered Userregular

Honestly, if you want a quick fix of speed (and this is something I do regularly), go Go-Kart racing. At least for me, it's 90% of the fun of real track driving at 10% of the price - plus, I can go balls out because I'm renting the cart instead of worrying about my car.

This. It also consistently reminds me that I need to get a lot better before I could ever competently compete in the local go-kart track's league nights. The the best guys at my track do laps in 19.2(s) and I'm often struggling to break 21.0 That's right I'm a full 10% slower. :'(

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

Eh, don't worry too much about not knowing how to drive a manual. Just make sure you get some time to practice on someone else's car to make sure you can handle using it. Take the time and try driving it around and traffic.

This might be heresy here but sometimes I really hate driving a stick. The other night I went house shopping with my wife in the Miata and I about tore my hair out driving through crappy neighborhood streets for an hour. On the other hand my ridiculously stiff race suspension probably contributed to my annoyance. The thing is great when I go canyon carving but I rarely get a chance to do that these days. Most of my stick driving is in traffic.

I hate driving stick in traffic on city streets. It just adds a layer of aggravation to something that is already annoying. It's fun on a track, or on a nice twisty empty road but going from light to light is just ehhh.

As far as learning stick goes, if you want some basic practice, get a cheap gaming wheel/pedals set and practice using Forza/GT. This can give you the basic mental mechanics of operating the clutch without worrying about tearing up someone else's clutch.

Honestly, if you want a quick fix of speed (and this is something I do regularly), go Go-Kart racing. At least for me, it's 90% of the fun of real track driving at 10% of the price - plus, I can go balls out because I'm renting the cart instead of worrying about my car.

This. It also consistently reminds me that I need to get a lot better before I could ever competently compete in the local go-kart track's league nights. The the best guys at my track do laps in 19.2(s) and I'm often struggling to break 21.0 That's right I'm a full 10% slower. :'(

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

Eh, don't worry too much about not knowing how to drive a manual. Just make sure you get some time to practice on someone else's car to make sure you can handle using it. Take the time and try driving it around and traffic.

This might be heresy here but sometimes I really hate driving a stick. The other night I went house shopping with my wife in the Miata and I about tore my hair out driving through crappy neighborhood streets for an hour. On the other hand my ridiculously stiff race suspension probably contributed to my annoyance. The thing is great when I go canyon carving but I rarely get a chance to do that these days. Most of my stick driving is in traffic.

I hate driving stick in traffic on city streets. It just adds a layer of aggravation to something that is already annoying. It's fun on a track, or on a nice twisty empty road but going from light to light is just ehhh.

As far as learning stick goes, if you want some basic practice, get a cheap gaming wheel/pedals set and practice using Forza/GT. This can give you the basic mental mechanics of operating the clutch without worrying about tearing up someone else's clutch.

I love driving my manual Golf TDI in cities, but it's super torquey so that might help. Dunno, every time I rev through 2k-3k rpms and slam it into the next gear makes me grin. But I'd wager your opinion is the vast majority, hence why nobody sells manual cars anymore. :p

Honestly, if you want a quick fix of speed (and this is something I do regularly), go Go-Kart racing. At least for me, it's 90% of the fun of real track driving at 10% of the price - plus, I can go balls out because I'm renting the cart instead of worrying about my car.

This. It also consistently reminds me that I need to get a lot better before I could ever competently compete in the local go-kart track's league nights. The the best guys at my track do laps in 19.2(s) and I'm often struggling to break 21.0 That's right I'm a full 10% slower. :'(

I doubt you'll see a Mustang with a dual clutch flappy paddle anytime soon...but maybe.

Most Mustang buyers are big American muscle folks, and they want their shifter on the floor. They'd likely prefer it was a four speed too, but that's not happening.

Flappy Paddles are so heartless :/

I feel so much more connected to a car when I'm rowing the gears myself. Automatics and Dual Clutch gearboxes put me to sleep.

I'm sad to admit that I don't know how to actually drive a car with a manual transmission. I understand how to do it but I've never actually done it. I'd be too embarrassed to test drive or buy a car I cant drive, granted I'm sure I'd pick learn it quite quickly.

The next generation Mustang is going to be a world car like the current Focus and Fiesta, so I wouldn't put it past Ford to seriously consider a dual clutch transmission. I can at least hope or spend the time learning how to properly use a manual transmission because I'm ashamed that I cant.

Eh, don't worry too much about not knowing how to drive a manual. Just make sure you get some time to practice on someone else's car to make sure you can handle using it. Take the time and try driving it around and traffic.

This might be heresy here but sometimes I really hate driving a stick. The other night I went house shopping with my wife in the Miata and I about tore my hair out driving through crappy neighborhood streets for an hour. On the other hand my ridiculously stiff race suspension probably contributed to my annoyance. The thing is great when I go canyon carving but I rarely get a chance to do that these days. Most of my stick driving is in traffic.

I hate driving stick in traffic on city streets. It just adds a layer of aggravation to something that is already annoying. It's fun on a track, or on a nice twisty empty road but going from light to light is just ehhh.

As far as learning stick goes, if you want some basic practice, get a cheap gaming wheel/pedals set and practice using Forza/GT. This can give you the basic mental mechanics of operating the clutch without worrying about tearing up someone else's clutch.

I love driving my manual Golf TDI in cities, but it's super torquey so that might help. Dunno, every time I rev through 2k-3k rpms and slam it into the next gear makes me grin. But I'd wager your opinion is the vast majority, hence why nobody sells manual cars anymore. :p

I think the removal of driver's ed from high schools has contributed to it - nobody is learning now to drive manual cars so nobody is buying manual cars so they dont make manual cars so you cant buy manual cars so you cant learn to drive stick so you dont want to buy a manual car.

Im still really pleased that I got one of like 4 (new) manual Civics (Im pretty sure this number didnt include Sis) in all of Southern California.

Tejs, your poor car! I'm afraid to park my Elise on the street because of pictures like that...

From talking to Aston owners in the UK, and the super cool repair guys here... they break down a lot. They look awesome, but reliable, not so much.

My husband has a 2006 Cayman S and it's pretty great. Easier to drive than the Elise... I love my car to bits but have to admit it's loud, hot, and has a fairly hard ride. The Porsche is faster at the track (not just because of driver differences) and is still comfy for driving about town and not too flashy to drive to work. It's got a similar dynamic to the Elise and is less twitchy because it's a bit better balanced (less weight to the rear), and has optional PASM which is awesome. If you get an '08 or '09 it's 320HP.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

How well do you drive in traffic with the automatic cars that do something like 2 MPH?
I ask because even if I idle my car in 1st, I can't do less than 6 MPH or so. So I end up waiting for some room so I can move, then end up pushing in the clutch and coasting up to traffic.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

How well do you drive in traffic with the automatic cars that do something like 2 MPH?
I ask because even if I idle my car in 1st, I can't do less than 6 MPH or so. So I end up waiting for some room so I can move, then end up pushing in the clutch and coasting up to traffic.

Well, it also depends on transmission. My Civic's transmission + engine combo made it so that you have to wind the engine up really high to get decent torque, so when I was driving that, I would just wind it up and play clutch/throttle games to keep from stalling.

Many times I'll do exactly as you describe. The "doing it well" part is not looking like you're riding a bucking bronco while doing it, not stalling the car, being able to smoothly keep the engine spooled up and moving with good clutch actuation. Extreme slow speed driving is the best place to really see if someone knows how to drive a manual, or if someone just taught them how to get in first and change gears.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

How well do you drive in traffic with the automatic cars that do something like 2 MPH?
I ask because even if I idle my car in 1st, I can't do less than 6 MPH or so. So I end up waiting for some room so I can move, then end up pushing in the clutch and coasting up to traffic.

Well, it also depends on transmission. My Civic's transmission + engine combo made it so that you have to wind the engine up really high to get decent torque, so when I was driving that, I would just wind it up and play clutch/throttle games to keep from stalling.

Many times I'll do exactly as you describe. The "doing it well" part is not looking like you're riding a bucking bronco while doing it, not stalling the car, being able to smoothly keep the engine spooled up and moving with good clutch actuation. Extreme slow speed driving is the best place to really see if someone knows how to drive a manual, or if someone just taught them how to get in first and change gears.

Really? I thought thats just called driving?

So I saw an FRS on the road today. Its shorter than I expected (height-wise), Im not really sure why I thought it was going to be a little taller. It actually looks a little small to me.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

How well do you drive in traffic with the automatic cars that do something like 2 MPH?
I ask because even if I idle my car in 1st, I can't do less than 6 MPH or so. So I end up waiting for some room so I can move, then end up pushing in the clutch and coasting up to traffic.

Well, it also depends on transmission. My Civic's transmission + engine combo made it so that you have to wind the engine up really high to get decent torque, so when I was driving that, I would just wind it up and play clutch/throttle games to keep from stalling.

Many times I'll do exactly as you describe. The "doing it well" part is not looking like you're riding a bucking bronco while doing it, not stalling the car, being able to smoothly keep the engine spooled up and moving with good clutch actuation. Extreme slow speed driving is the best place to really see if someone knows how to drive a manual, or if someone just taught them how to get in first and change gears.

Really? I thought thats just called driving?

You'd think. Ever taken a novice stick driver and had them try it at extreme slow speed around a parking lot, with a lot of stops and starts, and rolling transitions? It's pretty humorous, if you don't mind your transmission getting a work out.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

How well do you drive in traffic with the automatic cars that do something like 2 MPH?
I ask because even if I idle my car in 1st, I can't do less than 6 MPH or so. So I end up waiting for some room so I can move, then end up pushing in the clutch and coasting up to traffic.

Well, it also depends on transmission. My Civic's transmission + engine combo made it so that you have to wind the engine up really high to get decent torque, so when I was driving that, I would just wind it up and play clutch/throttle games to keep from stalling.

Many times I'll do exactly as you describe. The "doing it well" part is not looking like you're riding a bucking bronco while doing it, not stalling the car, being able to smoothly keep the engine spooled up and moving with good clutch actuation. Extreme slow speed driving is the best place to really see if someone knows how to drive a manual, or if someone just taught them how to get in first and change gears.

Really? I thought thats just called driving?

You'd think. Ever taken a novice stick driver and had them try it at extreme slow speed around a parking lot, with a lot of stops and starts, and rolling transitions? It's pretty humorous, if you don't mind your transmission getting a work out.

I'm going to have to agree with emp here. Being able to drive a stick without jerking or stalling it at low speeds is not some magic skill. That is just basic operation of a manual.

If you guys say so. I've taught many people over the years how to drive a stick, and I've seen many people who after driving a stick for months or years still have extreme difficulty at very very low speeds (less than 5pmh).

It's not something that you just learn by learning to drive a stick. I can teach someone how to drive a stick competently enough to get around town, and they still won't immediately know how to handle the car at extremely low speed when you're at/around stall conditions. It takes a touch and a feel for the clutch and throttle that most people don't have until they actually do it, and not everyone is ever forced to do it.

If you guys say so. I've taught many people over the years how to drive a stick, and I've seen many people who after driving a stick for months or years still have extreme difficulty at very very low speeds (less than 5pmh).

It's not something that you just learn by learning to drive a stick. I can teach someone how to drive a stick competently enough to get around town, and they still won't immediately know how to handle the car at extremely low speed when you're at/around stall conditions. It takes a touch and a feel for the clutch and throttle that most people don't have until they actually do it, and not everyone is ever forced to do it.

I like driving a stick in cities, and even in traffic, but I've done it for so many years I've learned all kinds of clutch and throttle tricks to keep shifting to a serious minimum. Plus, if you're good at it, you look like a bad ass to any car people around you, because slow traffic is one of the easiest times to tell when someone is driving a manual, and more importantly, when they are driving it well. Driving a manual well at low speed is a cultivated skill.

How well do you drive in traffic with the automatic cars that do something like 2 MPH?
I ask because even if I idle my car in 1st, I can't do less than 6 MPH or so. So I end up waiting for some room so I can move, then end up pushing in the clutch and coasting up to traffic.

Well, it also depends on transmission. My Civic's transmission + engine combo made it so that you have to wind the engine up really high to get decent torque, so when I was driving that, I would just wind it up and play clutch/throttle games to keep from stalling.

Many times I'll do exactly as you describe. The "doing it well" part is not looking like you're riding a bucking bronco while doing it, not stalling the car, being able to smoothly keep the engine spooled up and moving with good clutch actuation. Extreme slow speed driving is the best place to really see if someone knows how to drive a manual, or if someone just taught them how to get in first and change gears.

Really? I thought thats just called driving?

So I saw an FRS on the road today. Its shorter than I expected (height-wise), Im not really sure why I thought it was going to be a little taller. It actually looks a little small to me.

I want one

The FRS is really cool, and I love that there's an affordable RWD sportscar besides the Miata out there. If I didn't need space for my big dog and lots of gear, that would be very near the top of my list of cars to consider.

So was wondering if any of you have any experience or comments on the Mazdaspeed3? I'm in the market for a car and many moons ago I had an 89 Honda Civic SI and miss it terribly. I've never owned a Mazda but have heard good things about them and would like a zippy little car without dropping half a mortgage on it.