no, I haven't because I don't have two grand to spare. But I have read quite a few impressions of them in the LCD3 thread and it seems that they are a slight improvement over the LCD2 but not a radical shift in quality. And I have used the LCD2 and I don't think they're the be all and end all of headphones.

I don't care what engineering goes into the headphone if I don't like the sound they produce (I'm sure there are plenty of folks here who could say the same about the wonderfully engineered and precise Senn HD800)

but the comments you made about the diminishing returns and the "money is no object" items also apply to other manufacturers, not just Audez'e. I don't think they've shown, via their products, any qualities that are above and beyond what we see from most other headphone vendors.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonx

Have you even heard the LCD-3? And did you forget that audio has always been about diminishing returns?

There is a product in just about every line that costs significantly more for less gains than the previous model had over the lower one.

It's for the "money is no object" crowd.

To have the best, people will pay. Such is life.

But it's the engineering spirit and the will to improve that I love so much about Audez'e, even though I'll never be able to afford one their headphones :(

To continue this train of though (FWIW I have the LCD-3s and did own both revisions of the LCD-2s). Are they 2x better? Nope...are they better, two my ears absolutely. But diminished returns are part of this hobby. So back to the train of thought....are the LCD-2s three times better than the HD650s? I wouldn't say so...then are the HD650s three times better than the Grado SR-80s? I could argue not.

So the laws of diminished returns are present at many different price ranges and whether the price is worth it, its up to the potential buyer, their ears and wallet (and maybe their wife ).

Considering I own both set of phones folks need to stop flaming on me!!!

I am allowed my opinion and VONX understands my point!!!

THANK YOU!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vonx

What he said is accurate. Read it again.

It has, it does have, and will have an impact on the consumer base. That's business.

How much of an impact it has on you is irrelevant. You are one person.

Let me make a scenario for you.

Scenario 1.) Buyer X walked into a store. He saw two products in front of him, one wrapped in a pizza box (product A), and another laden in velvet in a stained woodgrain box (product B). Buyer X had no previous knowledge on either product. He impulsively buys product B due to presentation.

That's an impact on the customer base of Grado.

Let me make another scenario for you.

Scenario 2.) Buyer X has been on Head-Fi a long time. He has demo'd both headphones (product A and product B) and likes the sound of both. Buyer X prefers the sound of product A (grado) however he can't stand the uncomfortable fit and doesn't like the flimsy build. Buyer X decided to buy Product B instead.

That's another impact on the customer base of Grado.

So what you said was false

Regardless, I'm glad that Grado appeals to you in every fashion with all its quirks. Have a cookie.

My original point was that Grado could make a larger effort to continue progressing their products, if nothing to do monetarily than for the sake of making their customers happy and for the passion of trying to improve something. Everything can be improved, and it saddens me that Grado closes their ears to customers. They negatively effect everyone in the process, both their customers and themselves.

Audez'E just made an upgrade on an already fantastic headphone, the LCD-2, with the LCD-3. They took an already flagship headphone and made another flagship out of it. That's the spirit I like. Grado should take notes.

By the way, Pauly wasn't being conceited. He had an opinion, and expressed it. It's because of people like him that things progress at all anymore. You should applaud him.

To continue this train of though (FWIW I have the LCD-3s and did own both revisions of the LCD-2s). Are they 2x better? Nope...are they better, two my ears absolutely. But diminished returns are part of this hobby. So back to the train of thought....are the LCD-2s three times better than the HD650s? I wouldn't say so...then are the HD650s three times better than the Grado SR-80s? I could argue not.

I would argue that if you try the SR-80 and can't abide it, and you move up to the HD650 and thoroughly enjoy it, then the HD650 is worth many times more than 3x the SR-80--a comment that can apply to any pairing you care to name. A headphone you can't live with is worth nothing--or rather, what you can resell it for. A headphone you love to listen to your collection on is priceless.

However, the HD650 and low end grado are not the phone subject of the thread!

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero

To continue this train of though (FWIW I have the LCD-3s and did own both revisions of the LCD-2s). Are they 2x better? Nope...are they better, two my ears absolutely. But diminished returns are part of this hobby. So back to the train of thought....are the LCD-2s three times better than the HD650s? I wouldn't say so...then are the HD650s three times better than the Grado SR-80s? I could argue not.

So the laws of diminished returns are present at many different price ranges and whether the price is worth it, its up to the potential buyer, their ears and wallet (and maybe their wife ).

I would argue that if you try the SR-80 and can't abide it, and you move up to the HD650 and thoroughly enjoy it, then the HD650 is worth many times more than 3x the SR-80--a comment that can apply to any pairing you care to name. A headphone you can't live with is worth nothing--or rather, what you can resell it for. A headphone you love to listen to your collection on is priceless.

I would definitely argue that the HD650s are NOT 3x better than the SR-80s. Better, sure, but not 3X.

Sorry, but the only 2 pairs of Grados that I do dislike are the SR325s (too bright and sizzly top end) and the GS1000s (same issue and really too "U" shaped for my liking). The PS1000s are better than either of these, but still a bit too "U" shaped and they seem to have lost the Grado attack and in-your-face presentation that I really enjoy. My favourite John Grado headphones are the RS1/RS1i/HF-2.

Sorry, but the only 2 pairs of Grados that I do dislike are the SR325s (too bright and sizzly top end) and the GS1000s (same issue and really too "U" shaped for my liking). The PS1000s are better than either of these, but still a bit too "U" shaped and they seem to have lost the Grado attack and in-your-face presentation that I really enjoy. My favourite John Grado headphones are the RS1/RS1i/HF-2.

what amp? am i the only one that doesn't find the SR325is bright? maybe if you are used to the rs1 however, i can see why u wouldn't like the SR325is.

the ps1000s are still more grado sounding than the gs1000. the gs1000 are quite dark.

It's been a while since I've owned the DLIII, but I ca say that I am thoroughly happy with my W4S DAC-2. My buddy brought over his Byrston BDA-1 DAC (about $3k) and we both preferred the DAC-2. He eventually sold his on canuckaudiomart and bought a DAC-2.

IMO, the DAC-2 is quite a bit better and more transparent DAC. The pre-amp feature too is a welcomed added bonus.