System message 25/5/11

Got a system message saying that Tivo will soon cease to function. This seems a bit more menacing than the recent, Tivo VM is coming messages. Does this mean they are going to brick the S1 boxes on 1st June?

Subject: Your TiVo service is about to end.
From: The TiVo Team
Date: Mon 23rd May 2011
Expire: Mon 30th May 2011

TiVo is about to switch off your current service. If you want to keep enjoying
the Tivo service swap to Virgin Media and upgrade to the new Virgin Media TV
powered by TiVo box. Check to see if you live in a cable area and grab your new
TiVo package from www.virginmedia.com/tivo.

Click to expand...

In case your Tivo is talking to another service or you've put it in a box.
Still undecided what to do with ours - technically its redundant but its still currently recording away and I keep finding family members using it in preference to the MCE kit
Might put it on the AltEPG for the kid to use.

Withdrawing the EPG is one thing, sending some form of 'kill' signal to the box is something else. Such a denial of service attack on users equipment could be construed as a criminal act and leave TiVo Inc, and possibly Virgin Media, open to prosecution for criminal damage. People here who wanted to sue someone would have a field day and it would only require one TiVo box owner to make a formal complaint to the Police to start an investigation (you could probably include Virgin for 'collusion to commit a criminal act'). Think of the paperwork involved, never mind the publicity!

You can't cause criminal damage to a computer by modifying its data. The relevant statute would be the Computer Misuse Act but even here you would be on shaky ground as the proprietory rights to the software belong with TiVo.

They modified the software so that it continued to work a manual recorder without a sub many years ago, but interestingly for the legally minded, as it was sold it was a brick if you let the sub lapse.

But they don't have to brick it; the clock drifts quite badly IIRC and without the daily call to correct it it would only be a matter of weeks before it was unusable as a manual recorder.

You can't cause criminal damage to a computer by modifying its data. The relevant statute would be the Computer Misuse Act but even here you would be on shaky ground as the proprietory rights to the software belong with TiVo.

Click to expand...

So if I hack into your PC and wipe the contents of the HDD and make it inoperable I am not going to be prosecuted? Fair enough, what's your IP address? Also fresh hope for the Crouch End computer hacker Gary McKinnon then.

TiVo Inc sold us the rights to use their software/IP in perpetuity when we bought the box - we can't own the IP but we are licensed to use it. Anything they do to prevent us using that IP would be illegal. Deliberately modifying the boxes to prevent any sort of operation is criminal damage - a bit like snapping the aerial off your car.

TiVo Inc sold us the rights to use their software/IP in perpetuity when we bought the box - we can't own the IP but we are licensed to use it. Anything they do to prevent us using that IP would be illegal. Deliberately modifying the boxes to prevent any sort of operation is criminal damage - a bit like snapping the aerial off your car.

As regards the offence of criminal damage, you should note that by Section 3(6) Computer Misuse Act, a modification of the contents of a computer will not be regarded as damaging any computer or computer storage medium unless its effect on the computer or computer storage medium impairs its physical condition. Damage or changes to software etc are now to be dealt with under the Computer Misuse Act 1990

16. Title to Software and Intellectual Property. [...] You received certain software in your TiVo DVR at the time of purchase and other software programs may be delivered to your TiVo DVR by TiVo from time to time, which you are obligated to accept. You may use such software solely in executable code form and solely in conjunction with your TiVo DVR. Your use of such software is subject to the terms of this Agreement. TiVo retains title to and ownership of all the software for the TiVo DVR and certain intellectual property rights in the TiVo DVR.

Withdrawing the EPG is one thing, sending some form of 'kill' signal to the box is something else.

Click to expand...

But that's exactly what happens when you cancel a TiVo subscription. Although you have two weeks or so of guide data, on your last daily call the TiVo discovers it's unsubbed and then ignores the guide data and nags you to pay TiVo money for it to start working again.

But that's exactly what happens when you cancel a TiVo subscription. Although you have two weeks or so of guide data, on your last daily call the TiVo discovers it's unsubbed and then ignores the guide data and nags you to pay TiVo money for it to start working again.

Click to expand...

That's a good point for those hoping to keep it going until the last possible moment with the EPG data after June 1st already downloaded.

Title and ownership doesn't mean the right to withdraw a licence already given.

Click to expand...

Correct - you cannot own the IPR (unless you specifically buy it) but you can buy the right to use it in perpetuity, which means the vendor cannot pull it whenever they feel like it. I speak as a software vendor who licences a product to major companies and we have to be very careful not to disable the product in any way even if the customer stops paying annual maintenance, for example.

Looks like I may have to change the default gateway on mine on the 30th/31st then until it becomes clear what Tivo intend to do.
If they turn off the servers we'll presumably get call failed/running out of guide data nags after a few days and clock drift.
If they set accounts to closed then no more recordings until we set up on AltEPG.

It would just be flipping polite for Tivo to be more open about what happens on the 1st of June.

[edit]
I've followed up my email from Monday to support about what will happen as their 2 business days have elapsed without a reply. In the auto response they say they won't respond to questions

If you are contacting TiVo with questions about the future of your Series1 service in the UK, please visit http://www.tivo.com/UKSeries1 for information.

Click to expand...

That link says

Without the program guide data provided by the TiVo service, Series1 boxes will have limited - if any - functionality. They can still be used to view previously recorded programs and, under certain circumstances, may be used to record programs manually.

Click to expand...

That I guess indicates that they won't be changing account status but just switching off the dial up POPs and the EPG servers.
[/edit]