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More on tax havens

04-30-2012, 03:12 PM

So much for Apple being one of the good guys.http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/bu...pagewanted=all
I realize they are not doing anything illegal, maybe not even unethical. I'll bet their lobbyists (and those of other corporations like them) are making sure their tax havens are safe from the public trough. I guess a penny saved (from the tax man) is a penny earned. I love it where they take credit for the employee income taxes they withhold.

You are mistaken about Apple not being one of the good guys. Heck they are working to get us another holiday right? The “repatriation holiday” In my opinion the whole tax system stinks! Revamp it from top to bottom. flat rate for individuals including corporations that are people too Seriously? I guess with the right lobbyists you can achieve just about anything and the middle class stands by powerless to have justice!

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Corporations dont pay taxes, consumers do when they buy the corporations products. Anyone who thinks corporations actually pay taxes are delusional. I know I don't pay the sales taxes on materials I buy for a job, I just pass that right on to the customer.

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NC state tax law says I have to pay the taxes. They see me as the end user. Thank God for that. I would not want to pay the different taxes that differ from county to county. One less thing to worry about come tax time.

NC state tax law says I have to pay the taxes. They see me as the end user. Thank God for that. I would not want to pay the different taxes that differ from county to county. One less thing to worry about come tax time.

yes but to you take them out of your profits or consider them a business expense, and pass the cost on to the customer, either as a direct expense or as over head?

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Corporations dont pay taxes, consumers do when they buy the corporations products. Anyone who thinks corporations actually pay taxes are delusional. I know I don't pay the sales taxes on materials I buy for a job, I just pass that right on to the customer.

This is the kind of business practice that needs to stop!If the tax is aimed at your business or corporation then it is wrong to pass it on to the consumer. In all fairness, if I pay your taxes, then I should also benefit from your profits. The way I see it, I should pay the bill you give me including the taxes you pass along and then get a rebate for the profit you make. Yeah, that seems about right.

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This is the kind of business practice that needs to stop!If the tax is aimed at your business or corporation then it is wrong to pass it on to the consumer. In all fairness, if I pay your taxes, then I should also benefit from your profits. The way I see it, I should pay the bill you give me including the taxes you pass along and then get a rebate for the profit you make. Yeah, that seems about right.

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This is the kind of business practice that needs to stop!If the tax is aimed at your business or corporation then it is wrong to pass it on to the consumer. In all fairness, if I pay your taxes, then I should also benefit from your profits. The way I see it, I should pay the bill you give me including the taxes you pass along and then get a rebate for the profit you make. Yeah, that seems about right.

I still pay income taxes franki, but any other tax levied upon me, corporate tax, sales tax etc, is going to be figured into my cost of doing business, meaning the customer pays it. I don't mind paying income taxes, just like an employee pays out of their paycheck, but I'll be damned if I'm going to run a government gravy train charity through my business out of my own pocket.

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You are correct in that many corporations DO NOT pay taxes. But, most all of that is through the present rules, write-offs, and encentives provided under today's tax codes. I think much of the structure of corporations is designed for "avoidance"... avoidance of taxes and avoidance of it's top leadership to liability. Those rules are there to give "corporations" and overwhelming advantage to establish and grow their businesses. But, I also think that such structure was established for the growth of the country and the hiring of the American worker. Today, it is used largely to the defeat of the American worker and to the unbridled avoidance of greed by the corporation and those people who are behind that.

The thing of it is, such "avoidance" is quite legal and quite open. I recall the CEO of my ex-employer opening bragging in Forbes magazine, that he saved the corporation $80 Million in taxes, just by moving the corporate address to the Caymen Islands. Since then, they have move it to Dublin, Ireland, which provides even better "shelter". Now, this was one of America's oldest corporations; and it has absolutely no sense of it's responsibility to the country and goverment that has sponsored it's growth and protected it militarily in its global expansion.

Such is the way of "business". And such is the way of most of today's business leadership who is so tuned to profit greed that they are more than willing to cheat both it's workers and the American taxpayer at every possible chance.

But, how do you NOT pass this on to your customers and reflect those taxes that you might possibly pay, into your products? Whether you are a store owner, a manufacturer, or a contractor, you need to have a pretty good focus on your profits; and taxes, are part of your business costs! As such, you should have a pretty good picture of what kind of "profit" you need to make in order to live and grow, and to that end you need to take all business "cost" (including taxes) into account when you plan your hourly or product pricing.

But avoidance, should not be an undertaking. If you are fortunate enough to make the kind of money that prompts the very rich to seek off-shore "shelter", then they are neglecting the very country that allowed them such privilege and I can go so far as to say that such thinking borders on "treason" in that they fail to meet their reponsibilites and are in fact, covertly undermining the financial security of the nation.

If we look at the national debt (as percentage of individual burden) we'd see it drop substantially form 1949 until 1980. But at that time, Reaganomics drastically reduced taxes on higher income, and from that point thru today, the national debt has risen sharply. But taxes back then were to some on the higher income scale, almost 90%. Today, because of tax code and off-shore "shelters", it is almost nothing.

Flat tax sounds intrigueing, but making that work would be very difficult. The whole thing of taxes of any kind is that there are always those who it advantages and those that will pay the brunt of it. If with a flat tax, we simply layed out a single percentage that all would have to pay, regardless of income and with no deductions, we'd have people dying in the streets from stavation and living in caves.. while the rich would be the new "Gods".

Whatever we do, we must overhaul the taxes and do so in a manner that will bring jobs back to the country, make everyone pay their fair share. But understand that "fair" doesn't mean that everyone pays the same percent. Just look at it in real money terms: If I am the Master and I hire you at a $1 an hour, hire your supervisor at $10 an hour, and hire your senior manager at $100 an hour, and the resulting profits from your labors makes me $1000 an hour; and then the govenment says we all must pay 25% to them... where does that leave any of us.

You now have 75-cents... you can't even afford a hamburger! You boss had $7.50, which makes him much better off, but he's barely going to keep a roof over his head. The senior manager's going to still make $75 an hour and he's going to be just great, but tell me we need to make some changes, cause he's not happy. Me, well as the Master I'm going to be pissed, because I just lost $250 an hour in income and over a year that is going to be a sizeable loss. I'm going to listen to my senior manager and make some changes.

I'm going to let you go, give your buddy and chance to earn some extra cash by working overtime to make up for your loss, and maybe theaten to furlough some others if they don't improve productivity and make me back that $250 cut I'm paying to the government.

You and your supervisor have very little you can do but take the hit. I, on the other hand, have all the power to manipulate things so that I'll still make the profits that I deserve... afterall, making only $750 an hour is an insult to someone in my position as "Master".

And thus, is where we are with American Corporations. Those at the bottom, take the hit. Those at the top, make the money, make the decisions, make the contacts, and make the policy with the government. Problem with taxes is that on any level they will NOT be fair, as long as we give Corporations rights that are superior over the common citizen.

CWS

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I still pay income taxes franki, but any other tax levied upon me, corporate tax, sales tax etc, is going to be figured into my cost of doing business, meaning the customer pays it. I don't mind paying income taxes, just like an employee pays out of their paycheck, but I'll be damned if I'm going to run a government gravy train charity through my business out of my own pocket.

That post was in fun, no harm intended. I figured it would stir the pot. Good thing I didn't include jail time for tax avoidance
That wouldn't have gone over at all! On a serious note, I do think the entire system needs looking at and adjusting if possible.

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"You are correct in that many corporations DO NOT pay taxes. But, most all of that is through the present rules, write-offs, and encentives provided under today's tax codes. I think much of the structure of corporations is designed for "avoidance"... avoidance of taxes and avoidance of it's top leadership to liability. Those rules are there to give "corporations" and overwhelming advantage to establish and grow their businesses. But, I also think that such structure was established for the growth of the country and the hiring of the American worker. Today, it is used largely to the defeat of the American worker and to the unbridled avoidance of greed by the corporation and those people who are behind that."
CWS, great post! I agree with your paragraph above, and would add that those corporations also benefit from the American consumer while conducting thsoe practices. Legislation could easily be made to limit such legal avoidance to those who make work here and do not import goods or export jobs. I joked about the small business owners here who pass along costs to consumers but to their credit, they are based here, employ and consume here. Frank