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Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Originally Posted by Kurmugeon

I think Libertarianism started before America was official with the founder being Thomas Jefferson.

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It started with the Declaration of Independence, which outlined the purpose of government. It's been corrupted in some circles to mean anarchism and some right wing ideology that was never the original meaning of the term.

"Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

Actually yes to an extent anyway... I can only take in so much hypocracy in one go however...

Furthermore they were almost all slaveowners you realize? Making them extreme hypocrites to talk about "liberty" not to mention extremely mysogenistic.
Not to mention most of those authors talked about laze-faire. Not libertarianism. If you wanted to say they wrote about the economic ideas that libertarianism is based on you would be correct.

My source is the fact that the libertarian party was founded in 1971. Google it. To say any different is like when Muslims claim their religion is older than time. You and they are just wrong. Islam started after Christianity (by about 600 years I think) and libertarianism started in 1971.

Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Take the time to read the Federalist Papers and other debates on the formation of the American Constitution and you'll have a much better understanding of Thomas Jefferson.

Before the Progressive-Fascist started to re-write history, nobody thought that T Jefferson routinely raped his slaves.... EVER!

Maybe, just maybe, it never happened.

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Yea progressives are fascist... Good one... Do you know what fascism is? And no one is rewriting history. They are looking at it objectively. Their is a difference. The founders tried to rewrite history to a extent, or more accurstly, suppress certain parts, and shove other parts to the front. As the victor is liable to do.

Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Libertarianism is a Life-Philosophy and set of values, not a Political Party.

The Thomas Jefferson did not define today's Libertarianism completely, and it has grown much richer and more subtle over the decades, but Jefferson got a completely antagonistic Society/World Scene heading in the right direction.

Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Originally Posted by Dittohead not!

It started with the Declaration of Independence, which outlined the purpose of government. It's been corrupted in some circles to mean anarchism and some right wing ideology that was never the original meaning of the term.

That's like me saying socialism started with Jesus.

Some of the ideas may have been their, but it certainly did not.

Once more libertarian (as a word) did not exist until 1789. How did it start before the word was a word?

Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Originally Posted by Kurmugeon

Libertarianism is a Life-Philosophy and set of values, not a Political Party.

The Thomas Jefferson did not define today's Libertarianism completely, and it has grown much richer and more subtle over the decades, but Jefferson got a completely antagonistic Society/World Scene heading in the right direction.

And serial rapist who didn't even have the decency to free his slaves when he died (Washington, God bless him, did).

Jefferson contributed a great deal to the country (including money) but he was a very flawed man, and very morally dubious. If he represents libertarianism, all the more reason to reject it. If Jefferson had his way, we'd still be a rural nation run by slaveowners. I take it down deep that is the libertarian vision.

Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

That claim is so ignorant my head is spinning. Libertarianism was around long before the Koch Bros were even a twinkle in their father's eye.

he's obviously unable to differentiate between a political philosophy and a political party....

in addition, his claim about the Koch brothers founding " libertarianism" ( obviously he means the Libertarian Party) is false.....David Nolan would be the correct answer to that particular question.

as for the topic, I hope Bernie runs.... I won't vote for him if ya' paid me and he has no chance of winning, but it's nice to have someone with some sort of principles and character up on that stage... if only to highlight the lack of principles and character of the rest of the candidates

Re: Liberal Vermont Senator Sanders may seek U.S. presidency in 2016

Once more libertarian (as a word) did not exist until 1789. How did it start before the word was a word?

First, the philosophy. Then the label. The idea that government exists to protect our liberty started with the Declaration of Independence in this country, but I'm sure people understood the need for freedom sooner than that.

"Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney