About 10 years ago a student of mine, an older gentleman taught this song to me. He was rather hard of hearing, and mis-heard how the song came to be, hearing "supper club" instead of "summer camp"….for years I thought Jay Unger had written a song for a New York supper club, though for the life of me I couldn’t figure out why.

2nd Ending to A Part?

Every time I’ve heard this tune played, the A part definitely has a bit of a 2nd ending to it that differs slightly from what is posted here. As I’ve seen it written (have had the sheet music for years) and played, the last two measures of the A part go:

A C e | d3

Definitely one of those tunes that I cringe when it’s played at a session as it usually turns into a bunch of people trying to play their own unique overly dramaticized version.

Ashokan Fiddle & Dance Camp

The first part is a bit constricted here, as it should be about twice as long repeating itself with a slightly different ending. This is a version off the net that is a lot closer to what I would play.

Just a short note. This tune first came on to site here on May 5th, 2002. That entry has gone kaput! I suspect it may have been because of the ‘copyright’ attached to this number by Jay Ungar ~ and that may catch up with us again in the future…

Hallehlujah! Bless TheSesh sprite, Jeremy has listed the ‘Copyright’ above and with respect has contacted Jay and recieved his OK on having it here on site ~ "he’s okay with the tune being listed as long as correct attribution is given." ~ nice work and a lovely melody…

Just to remind us all, if we know the composer to give credit where credit is due, and if at all possible, seek permission before you contribute someone else’s inspiration…our of courtesy…

About copyrights

There have been a good few discussions in here regarding copyrights, and this particular case is the best example to illustrate the purpose of having one.

What happened here is very much in keeping with my experience regarding copyrights. Everyone I’ve ever had to contact to get permission to use their tunes was only interested in getting credit for authorship and had no interest in monetary compensation. I am neither a big-name recording artist or a big-name recording producer or filmmaker, so I didn’t have much, if any, compensation to offer.

In a case like the session.org where the tune is written out for a tune database, no one is making enough money on it to concern the copyright holder. (Even though Jeremy receives a small amount of money through donations to this site — it’s for site maintenance and probably represents little or no profit) On the other hand, if Jay Ungar hadn’t secured a copyright he might have been vulnerable to huge losses after Ken Burns picked up the tune as a theme for his groundbreaking documentary. In the same way, anyone would benefit from having a copyright, but it wouldn’t be aimed at websites such as this, or ITM musicians who are hobbyists or eking out a living playing music, but rather at any major recording or film company that might be interested.

Huge Losses?

Phantom said "…if Jay Ungar hadn’t secured a copyright he might have been vulnerable to huge losses after Ken Burns picked up the tune…"
"Huge losses" is not the same as "profits not realized." I too have heard that the main melody in AF comes from an older Scottish air.
Whatever the case, I am all in favor of Jay Ungar making some money.

One way to kill a friendly ‘exchanging of tunes’ atmosphere is to be forced to slap a copyright on the tune. Where would we be if people like O’Keefe, Denis Murphy, or John Ryan copyrighted all their pieces? You’d think they’d want to release the tune to be recorded so it would enter the tradition.

Ashokan Farewell - Not a Waltz!

Although it is in 3/4 time, it is my understanding that ASHOKAN FAREWELL IS NOT A WALTZ! It is written in the style of a Scottish lament. I was at a fiddle contest today, and one contestant played AF as her waltz, and then another contestant played it as her TOC (which of course should not be a hoedown or waltz…) I heard the first contestant comment (as if to disqualify the 2nd contestant), that she was playing a waltz for her TOC…

I do not claim to be an expert on these matters, but I was told by someone who IS an expert that AF is not a waltz. If I’m out of line here, someone please let me know!

In the first series of Transatlantic Sessions, Jay talks to Aly Bain, saying how he was probably thinking of Aly when he wrote it. They then proceed to play it, Aly first and Jay second, and it certainly shows where the inspiration came from - Aly Bain is magical!

transposed

Ashokan Farewell

As noted, Ashokan is a place, not somebody’s name. It is a music camp in upstate New York. Jay Ungar composed and named it, so it IS "Ashokan Farewell," not some variant of that like "Ashokan’s Farewell." Jay has graciously allowed the tune to be posted here with attribution, so the attribution to Jay Ungar should be in the C: field in the ABC header of every setting here. It should probably also have a Q: field, which would show it is really not a waltz, or if it is, the dancers are under sedation!

As to copyright, copyright is automatic - it can be relinquished by donating to the public domain, but otherwise the author / composer / creator has a copyright. The purpose of the copyright symbol and the year, and for most authors filing with the US Copyright Office in the United States, is to prove authorship and date of creation in order to bring a lawsuit for copyright infringement.

Re: Ashokan Farewell

Re: Ashokan Farewell

It’s a very lovely version too, and for many in the UK, may be where they first heard it, as it was a big "hit" on the radio station "Classic FM", about the time that the Ken Burns "American Civil War" TV series came out. Not sacrilege at all!
I much prefer it played as a slow air/lament rather than the swingy waltz: locally we have a set which consists of that, Margaret’s Waltz and Midnight on the Water. If you are not playing for dancing, where you need to keep the same tempo, it can be played with AF first, slow air tempo, followed by MW and MotW at a more waltzy speed. However others play MW/MotW/AF all at waltz tempo. It is much easier to go up a notch in speed when changing tunes than to come down one!

And Iain Bulloch (4 years ago) asked about a second fiddle tune for it. We have an arrangement by our own tutor, and I have seen a video of Jay Ungar and Paul Anderson playing together (can’t find it now!): I would guess that the harmony there is ad hoc/improvised, rather than written down, but I may be wrong!