Gaseous Anomaly:Ronin_S: Maybe we can just offer to let any woman who wants to leave the really rapey countries and come to live in North America/Europe/places where you expect to see prison time for this sort of shiat?

It would be interesting to see what those places would be like if almost all the women disappeared.

At least in America there'd be a good chance (sadly not 100%) that, were such a situation to arise, some of the bystanders would open a 40 lb box of whoopass on the attackers.

If they thought nobody else was watching, they'd be more likely to join in. Or just whip out a camera phone and film the whole thing before walking away.

over_and_done:Gaseous Anomaly: Ronin_S: Maybe we can just offer to let any woman who wants to leave the really rapey countries and come to live in North America/Europe/places where you expect to see prison time for this sort of shiat?

It would be interesting to see what those places would be like if almost all the women disappeared.

At least in America there'd be a good chance (sadly not 100%) that, were such a situation to arise, some of the bystanders would open a 40 lb box of whoopass on the attackers.

If they thought nobody else was watching, they'd be more likely to join in. Or just whip out a camera phone and film the whole thing before walking away.

As both situations have happened here, yeah. Hell, we made a movie about the first scenario.

aninconvenienterection:if only other passengers on the bus had the right to carry concealed firearms and have a chance to thwart this brutal attack.

/is serious

"The bus sped past her stop, police said. By that time, the woman was the only passenger.

The bus driver and his helper then took the married 29-year-old woman to an undisclosed address where five others joined the two men and raped her throughout the night, police said."

I sense a flaw in your reasoning...

Can we stop blaming other people for not being there, the victim for not being armed, or the god-damn bus company for not making rape-proof vehicles, and concentrate on the real culprits? As long as a society deems women to be second-class citizens that can be held down, sold, or brutalized without consequences, shiat like that is going to happen. Indian society needs to evolve - hopefully it won't take them too long.

aninconvenienterection:if only other passengers on the bus had the right to carry concealed firearms and have a chance to thwart this brutal attack.

/is serious

I read an article recently where requests for permission to buy a handgun are up significantly in India. Unfortunately they are rarely approved, and the cops more or less blamed the increase in applications on hysteria and said it would soon pass. In other words, the possibility (make that certainty since another has happened) that more women would get ganged raped was an acceptable price to pay to keep a few extra guns out of civilian hands.

/interesting what passes for logic there...or some American cities actually

Ronin_S:Maybe we can just offer to let any woman who wants to leave the really rapey countries and come to live in North America/Europe/places where you expect to see prison time for this sort of shiat?

It would be interesting to see what those places would be like if almost all the women disappeared.

hdhale:aninconvenienterection: if only other passengers on the bus had the right to carry concealed firearms and have a chance to thwart this brutal attack.

/is serious

I read an article recently where requests for permission to buy a handgun are up significantly in India. Unfortunately they are rarely approved, and the cops more or less blamed the increase in applications on hysteria and said it would soon pass. In other words, the possibility (make that certainty since another has happened) that more women would get ganged raped was an acceptable price to pay to keep a few extra guns out of civilian hands.

/interesting what passes for logic there...or some American cities actually

cmb53208:hdhale: jnapier: At least in America there'd be a good chance (sadly not 100%) that, were such a situation to arise, some of the bystanders would open a 40 lb box of whoopass on the attackers.

How many that live in Stubenville Ohio?

Having been to Steubenville, Ohio, I think perhaps the whoopass delivery trucks don't stop there.

Read the wiki article on Steubenville: the place is so miserable that I doubt anything stops there

This statement always give me a moment of "huh?" Before I realize we're thinking of very different parts of Steubenville. You're thinking shiat-hole ghetto with a rape problem, I'm thinking of the ultra-conservative Catholic college Franciscan University of Steubenville (or just Steubenville for short). Devout Catholics times 100. As in huge numbers of them are virgins when they marry, or become nuns/priests/monks. Where the weedy guitar player who leads the folk singing group is big man on campus and has the pick of the girls.

olddinosaur:No Such Agency: olddinosaur:Why doesn't someone ask her how happy she is to live in a country with strict gun laws?

I am sure her she is grateful her country feels so kindly towards her, as to deprive her of a deadly weapon with which she might easily harm someone, like those innocent young men who were just having some carefree youthful fun.

Seriously, dude? "This is Fark" only excuses so much in the way of trolling. But just in case you are so thick as to be sincere, if India was as awash in handguns as America is, odds are the minibus driver would have had one too.

I don't care what they do in India, it is their country to run as they see fit. I am worried it will happen in Amerika, sooner than you might expect.

Think about that when the gang bangers knock down your door in the middle of the night and shoot your children in the back, and say it was okay because they thought there might be some drugs, or maybe someone heard something about some drugs, or maybe they thought someone said someone to somebody about some drugs or something.

Make sure you thank them politely, some of those kids might have grown up to become junkies.

Yzziefrog:aninconvenienterection: if only other passengers on the bus had the right to carry concealed firearms and have a chance to thwart this brutal attack.

/is serious

"The bus sped past her stop, police said. By that time, the woman was the only passenger.

The bus driver and his helper then took the married 29-year-old woman to an undisclosed address where five others joined the two men and raped her throughout the night, police said."

I sense a flaw in your reasoning...

Can we stop blaming other people for not being there, the victim for not being armed, or the god-damn bus company for not making rape-proof vehicles, and concentrate on the real culprits? As long as a society deems women to be second-class citizens that can be held down, sold, or brutalized without consequences, shiat like that is going to happen. Indian society needs to evolve - hopefully it won't take them too long.

Whoa on the bolded part. Where exactly did you get that information? I am not pretending human trafficking doesn't occur, but it's not exactly institutionalized as you claim.

American 2nd amendment discussion aside, why are people calling for more guns for women to prevent rape? Mace is legal and readily availible, won't ricochet and kill bystanders, and is pretty effective at stopping attackers.

Plus, if you are crazy and whip out some mace during a psychotic episode and spray an innocent man (I hear there may be one left somewhere), you won't have to deal with any hefty charges like manslaughter or whatever.

hdhale:Somacandra: Mija: Funny how people overlook that mass murder while claiming to be progressive towards women

[i.imgur.com image 496x287]

Its the progressives that actually do things the are proven to reduce abortion rates. Wake me up when "pro-lifers" have done anything comparable.

Social conservatives maintain that abstinence from sex before marriage is:

100% effective against unwanted pregnancy100% effective against STDshas been shown to be extremely effective in drastically cutting the abortion rate

No other method is more effective.

Of course it takes a certain amount of discipline that many people feel is beyond their ability to maintain. Those people are free to throw dice and hope for the best.

/not that I am a social conservative, but if you are doing it right, it's hard to argue

Just curious how often that leads to people getting married very young because they're desperate to fark, and then getting divorced a couple years later when they realized that the high school sweetheart wasn't long-term relationship material. Because that really supports the sanctity of marriage, eh?

MagicPlasticTreeFrog:American 2nd amendment discussion aside, why are people calling for more guns for women to prevent rape? Mace is legal and readily availible, won't ricochet and kill bystanders, and is pretty effective at stopping attackers.

Plus, if you are crazy and whip out some mace during a psychotic episode and spray an innocent man (I hear there may be one left somewhere), you won't have to deal with any hefty charges like manslaughter or whatever.

Just for fun. Imagine you and 6 of your friends with one woman and you want to rape her. How is mace gonna stop you unless you're mentally challenged. Even with a gun, she's not going to get all of you. Just a thought...

I have been informed that murder is not an appropriate response to rape nor to attempted rape.

Well it is different there but in any state "Danger of grave bodily harm" is legal to draw a weapon and if necessary use it. If she had started with some mace and that didn't work one shot would have probably helped her cause. The lady from two weeks ago is dead, and this woman probably could believe that she would go down the same path.

aninconvenienterection:hdhale: aninconvenienterection: if only other passengers on the bus had the right to carry concealed firearms and have a chance to thwart this brutal attack.

/is serious

I read an article recently where requests for permission to buy a handgun are up significantly in India. Unfortunately they are rarely approved, and the cops more or less blamed the increase in applications on hysteria and said it would soon pass. In other words, the possibility (make that certainty since another has happened) that more women would get ganged raped was an acceptable price to pay to keep a few extra guns out of civilian hands.

/interesting what passes for logic there...or some American cities actually

the good news is, this too shall pass....

/ack

Until the next time...and given the attitudes being demonstrated...this wasn't first time and won't be the last either.

Perhaps if these fellows washed their ass every once in a while, women would have sex with them willingly.http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/2012/12/30/world/asia/india-refer / india-refer-articleLarge-v2.jpg

Vangor:Bucky Katt: At least the police took the report this time. Small consolation, though. Damn.

This and the immediate willingness of the woman to come forward were essential to the quick apprehension and bringing proper consequences to this type of horrific crime in the future.

This is probably the most sensible comment about a) why this kind of thing happens in India and b) what needs to change before it stops happening.

Rape, more than anything, is a crime that can only happen if the victim cannot or will not testify against her attacker. If she is unable to do so because her society or culture tends to disregard females, then rape can pretty much continue unchecked. India, until very very recently, has been such a country and culture. Only in the last few years have women been able to reliably bring sexual assault charges against men and reliably have police take reports and then take action against the rapists.

Giving women guns, in such a culture, would only result in women being charged with murder and probably convicted as well. Standing up for your rights is futile if you have no rights to stand up for.

From the article: "Operating in the badlands of Uttar Pradesh, India's most populous and poverty-stricken state, Pal's group gained notoriety in early days for beating up men who abused their wives. If they heard a husband was being violent, they would show up at his door with sticks called laathis - the same wielded by local cops when patrolling their beat - and demand he change his ways."