Postville, IA - Federal prosecutors have arrested Sholom Rubashkin, former chief executive officer and vice president at Agriprocessors and son of company founder Aaron Rubashkin, on a criminal complaint that alleges the man conspired in immigration-related offenses.

The criminal complaint is the first against any high-level member of Agriprocessors management and comes in the wake of a massive May 12 immigration raid at the plant. In all, 389 workers — nearly half the plant’s workforce — was detained by Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials.

According to documents filed with the court, Rubashkin “did knowingly conspire, confederate and agree with others, for the purpose of commercial advantage and private financial gain, to harbor one or more aliens at his place of employment in Postville, Iowa, knowing and in reckless disregard of the fact that such aliens had come to, entered and remained in the United States and aided and abetted the possession and use of fraudulent identification documents and aided and abetted aggravated identity theft.”

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According to Michael Fischels, a special agent with the Dept. of Homeland Security, dozens of fraudulent permanent resident alien cards were discovered and seized from offices within the human resources department at Agriprocessors during the May 12 raid.

“Most of the cards were attached to application paperwork dated May 11 or May 12, 2008,” Fischels wrote in the affidavit filed with the court. “Additional resident alien cards were groups in stacks and not attached to any paperwork. Based upon common features, ICE agents determined that the vast majority of the fraudulent resident alien cards came from the same manufacturer. Out of approximately 96 fraudulent resident alien cards, approximately 90 exhibited alien registration numbers which were then assigned to other actual persons.”

Fischels added that approximately 13 of the cards taken from the offices had photographs of people known to be working at the plant prior to May 11. All but two of the cards, however, “exhibited names which were different than the names the employees had been working under.”

The fraudulent resident alien cards are crucial to the case the government is making against Rubashkin because they are a physical link to claims made by former employees that Rubashkin provided $4,500 in cash as a loan to employees who could not afford to update their falsified documents.

The former plant supervisors, who remain unidentified in the affidavit, allegedly met with Rubashkin near the barn area on the Agriprocessors’ grounds on May 8 and asked for $4,500 to help employees slated for termination purchase new fraudulent documents. According to court documents, Rubashkin provided the supervisors the money in cash the following morning.

The unidentified supervisor, who worked in the beef-kill area, in turn presented employees in that department with $200 each as a loan so the employees could purchase the new documents from a different plant foreman, who was arranging for the purchase of the falsified documents. The documents for 39 or 40 employees were brought to the plant on May 11 by the foreman and distributed by the foreman and the unnamed supervisor.

An unidentified human resources employee is quoted in the affidavit as saying that s/he was personally asked by Sholom Rubashkin to process a large number of new employee applications on May 11. This same employee suspected that the new applicants were the employees slated for termination the previous Friday, and also identified at least one of the applicants as such.

Rubashkin will make an initial appearance in federal court for the Northern District of Iowa this afternoon.

U/D 5:30 PM
According to the Forward Agriprocessors shut down major portions of its slaughter operations at the same time that the company’s former CEO was arrested.
U/D 5:35 PM
He was in federal court in Cedar Rapids this afternoon At the hearing, Rubashkin waived his right to a preliminary hearing and also declined to comment.

He did not enter a plea, but his attorney said Rubashkin would plead not guilty at his arraignment.

Rubashkin was released, after agreeing to surrender his passport and the passport of his wife, to wear a GPS ankle bracelet, restrict his travel to the northern district of Iowa and execute a $1 million bond, $500,000 of which must be secured by Wednesday.

Prosecutor are concerned Rubashkin could be a flight risk. Because of his access to substantial assets.

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:13 PMAnonymous Says:

7

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:42 PMOy Gevald Says:

While I no longer buy Rubashkins products since KAJ announced they were leaving, I hope this Yid gets out quickly. Indeed, may the Zechusim of the claimed Tzedokkas they do be Maylitz Yosher for him. Time will tell. Let's hope it's not "Yotze schoro behefsedo" etc.

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:42 PMAnonymous Says:

9

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:38 PMberl33 Says:

i just dont understand our government they pay billion of our tax money to illigal aliens when they get sick and this rubashkin case they blow up to gigantic proportions how stupid can anyone be billions for medical care of illigals unbelievable how dummn can nayone get

10

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:36 PMAnonymous Says:

What about every factory,school,catering hall,deli,grocery that hires illegal mexicans and what about legal aid lawyer groups funded by tax payers money that fights for illegal alians. Obama in an interview 2 months ago lashed out at Rubashkin but yey he has illegal votes of homless,alians and fraud galore.

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:33 PMAnonymous Says:

14

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:50 PMAnonymous Says:

We should all learn a lesson from this not to fool around with the law and to respect it. You can try to justify it from today till tommorrow - with excuses such as "Americans don't want to work in meat packing plants". or "Kosher meat prices will go through the roof". But at the end of the day all the Tzedoka and excuses in the world can not mitigate the Chilul Hashem taking place because of this. I would have gladly not eaten meat or chicken for the last 5 years if it would have helped prevent this Chilul Hashem.

15

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:11 PMmoshei Says:

That's the results of a Liberal Goverment in Iowa, and liberal congressman of Iowa.If another guy would do the same, no arrests would be made.Obama, spoke against them is public only because he is a heimishe yid.A shame in the united states.The entire kosher process is under attack, don be a fool, wake up.

16

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:10 PMAnonymous Says:

"The world is relying on him for Kashrus and Tzedoka. May all the good he has done be a z'chus and protect him from all harm."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His tzedaka was money stolen from the workers. His KAshrus was in doubt. This is a true chillul Hashem, en masse. We should learn a lesson from this. No one is immune from Hashem's wrath.

19

Oct 30, 2008 at 01:09 PMAnonymous Says:

AS USIAL THE FBI WILL LIE THRU THEIR TEETH WITH NO CONSIQUANCES. BY SHULOM MORDCHE THEY WIL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING EVEN LESS THEN THAT, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO CHARGE HIM. LIKE THEY DID BY H. WIEDER.THIS IS NO MALCHIS SHEL CHESED

20

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:06 PMAnonymous Says:

There is no justice in America. If the gov't is out to destroy someone, they can do so with no one to stop them. It is only true criminals who have inalienable rights. We have seen this over and over again. This time it is PETA and the unions who have pushed this over the edge. Hashem yerachem!!

21

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:08 PMcher Says:

“
We should all learn a lesson from this not to fool around with the law and to respect it. You can try to justify it from today till tommorrow - with excuses such as "Americans don't want to work in meat packing plants". or "Kosher meat prices will go through the roof". But at the end of the day all the Tzedoka and excuses in the world can not mitigate the Chilul Hashem taking place because of this. I would have gladly not eaten meat or chicken for the last 5 years if it would have helped prevent this Chilul Hashem. ”

who are you? how do you know what he is accused about is true?? How dare you imply that he did something wrong if you don't KNOW? Do you know how many people are out to get Agri and the rubashkins? Do you know that this is the most money the immigration people ever spend on a raid?? They are out to get the rubashkins for some reason! Iowa, animal rights, the unions....someone wants them out and is doing everything in their power to get there. Please don't judge unless you know. If you know the Rubashkins, they are true baalei chessed. Not just baalei tzedakkah. Stand by your fellow jew, especially a jew like rubashkin.

22

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:03 PMEnough!! Says:

I know the Rubashkins to be decent people,I don't know what happened with the plant in Iowa, but it's time to stop and cut their losses now!They need to leave this business, before they bankrupt themselves and totally tarnish frim yidden.Genneeg schoin!Hirshel,Monsey

23

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:18 PMMilhouse Says:

So this is what it comes down to. Some workers came to him for a gemach, and he helped them. That's what the Rubashkins are like: if you need help they won't turn you away. Their old papers were shown to be bad, and if they didn't come up with new papers he would have had to fire them, so he lent them money and they came up with new papers. Now he didn't have to throw them out on the street. And that's supposed to be a big avla? Sounds like a mitzvah to me.

24

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:17 PMdovid Says:

i wish him the best .he doesnt deserve this. this is america ?just wait what happenes if chas vshalom barak hussein obama wins. every yid go out and vote for mccain.especially yidden in florida ohio pennsylivana and all other staes.

25

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:14 PMRubashkin fan Says:

"The world is relying on him for Kashrus and Tzedoka. May all the good he has done be a z'chus and protect him from all harm."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His tzedaka was money stolen from the workers. His KAshrus was in doubt. This is a true chillul Hashem, en masse. We should learn a lesson from this. No one is immune from Hashem's wrath. ”

Well you probly spoke to Agri employees that you know that he under paid them. As a former Agri worker I could tell you that there are very little emplyer's that pay as nice as Rubashkin pays. I wish kallal yisroel to make that much money as a agri worker..

26

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:11 PMTzofnas Paneiach Says:

“
AS USIAL THE FBI WILL LIE THRU THEIR TEETH WITH NO CONSIQUANCES. BY SHULOM MORDCHE THEY WIL TRY TO FIND SOMETHING EVEN LESS THEN THAT, IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO CHARGE HIM. LIKE THEY DID BY H. WIEDER.THIS IS NO MALCHIS SHEL CHESED ”

I agree with you. When the government wants it can arrest just aboult anybody because when they have all information on you, they can find some frivolous charge against you. It is not in upholding the law in which they are interested, it is in getting rid of them which they are interested.

27

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:11 PMDan Says:

To commentator no. 19: Take out the CAPS and learn how to write. Yes, it is a malchus shel chesed. But you have to keep the law. When will people stop doing chilul Hashem? Can't we just follow dina demalchusa?Don't blame animal activists, liberals, or the government. Blame yourselves! Keep the law and you will NEVER be arrested.

28

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:46 PMAnonymous Says:

To No. 25: You say you are a former Agri worker and were paid well and wish everyone were paid as well as Agri paid. Can you tell us what type of work - i.e were you on the line butchering slaughetered animals, loading crates, plucking feathers, etc? There have been reports of people who did that dirty, dangerous work earning in the $6/hour range. Is that what you were paid?

BTW - Everyone should withold a rush to judgment - that includes not just a rush to judgment, but all the hyperbole about this being Senator Obama's fault or Unions. Also, for all of you trying to tie this in to Obama, remember that the Dept. of Justice, FBI, ICE, US attorney's office, etc. are all run by republicans and have been for the past 8 years.

29

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:46 PMrussian rebel Says:

“
We should all learn a lesson from this not to fool around with the law and to respect it. You can try to justify it from today till tommorrow - with excuses such as "Americans don't want to work in meat packing plants". or "Kosher meat prices will go through the roof". But at the end of the day all the Tzedoka and excuses in the world can not mitigate the Chilul Hashem taking place because of this. I would have gladly not eaten meat or chicken for the last 5 years if it would have helped prevent this Chilul Hashem. ”

30

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:44 PMAnonymous Says:

“
To commentator no. 19: Take out the CAPS and learn how to write. Yes, it is a malchus shel chesed. But you have to keep the law. When will people stop doing chilul Hashem? Can't we just follow dina demalchusa?Don't blame animal activists, liberals, or the government. Blame yourselves! Keep the law and you will NEVER be arrested. ”

do you have a cleaning lady? did you ever check her papers?? do you pay her on the books and pay taxes for her? Well, if you don't you don't follow the law, and you should be arrested just like rubashkin!!!!

33

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:25 PMAnonymous Says:

“
who are you? how do you know what he is accused about is true?? How dare you imply that he did something wrong if you don't KNOW? Do you know how many people are out to get Agri and the rubashkins? Do you know that this is the most money the immigration people ever spend on a raid?? They are out to get the rubashkins for some reason! Iowa, animal rights, the unions....someone wants them out and is doing everything in their power to get there. Please don't judge unless you know. If you know the Rubashkins, they are true baalei chessed. Not just baalei tzedakkah. Stand by your fellow jew, especially a jew like rubashkin. ”

Did you read the article? It clearly says that they found "dozens of fraudulent permanent resident alien cards" in their office. How can they possibly claim innocence or ignorance? #22 Hirshel from Monsey said it best. "They need to leave this business, before they bankrupt themselves and totally tarnish frim yidden".

36

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:19 PMhowbadcanweget Says:

what the hell do you want from these yidden YOUR brother. (like it or not)

so they screwed around a bit here and there , things that everyone in America is doing. Not that its right but c'mon give me a break, The Kashrus was never in question and thousands of Jewish souls were strengthened by observing Kashrus.

What do you think all these Jews who now don't have kosher meat in their grocery stores are eating?? Treif. are you now happy.

Better now that we have blemished and harmed so many souls at the cheshbon of some workers being taking advantage of (and it is wrong that this was going on but put things in perspective)

If there were areas that needed change and improvement let us work on that, but were does all this achzorius come from.

37

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:51 PMAnonymous Says:

do you even realize who called PETA in the first place? well I do, there was a "rabbi" working here by the name of Zaidorf. He is the one that got the ball rolling on this. He should be ashamed of himself but knowing him, he's not.

Hatzlacha to the rubashkins and may hashem help you in this time of need.

38

Oct 30, 2008 at 02:51 PMAnonymous Says:

“
To commentator no. 19: Take out the CAPS and learn how to write. Yes, it is a malchus shel chesed. But you have to keep the law. When will people stop doing chilul Hashem? Can't we just follow dina demalchusa?Don't blame animal activists, liberals, or the government. Blame yourselves! Keep the law and you will NEVER be arrested. ”

hahah you make me laugh, would love to see how clean you would be if the feds come after you, by the way you know if you ever applied for a cradit card and you wrote that you make more money then you really do, thats 7 years in the cell... oh in case you want to know the head lines will be.... Feds busted local man for fraud, it might even make the front page which will say, Jewish man busted for fraud. so dont come on here claiming how bad everyone is,,, and u r so clean,, you know if the feds want u are a goner toooo

39

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:00 PMAgenda Driven Says:

I don't understand why people don't see the clear and obviousness of the agenda behind this situation. If you claim that this is not antisemitism then please answer the following questions. Why is it from all of the tens of raids that took place in the united states (some companies have a few raids in different locations) the only one that got this much media attention was agri? Why is it that Barack Obama mentioned agri twice but NEVER mentioned any other company employing illegal aliens that was raided and charged with child labor allegations? Why is it that the government never publicizes (in such instances) the affidavit but ONLY with agri they did - especially when they knew that many of the things were going to be proven false but would be publicized by the press (ie the pipe bomb mezuzos, the meth lab...)? Why is it that the letter that was written to the Rubashkins was signed specifically by Jewish congressmen? If you can't see how there is definitely, without a doubt, antisemitism that driving this as far as it has gone then I guess you never will.

41

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:26 PMAnonymous Says:

first the inspectorsthen the arrests ot a few workers all frumthen the courts with 10,000,000.00 finesand then one day later this arrest of shalomall from the fedssomething is really very wrong here that we dont know about,i would with my total ahavas yisroel and pity on another yidhave second thoughts when trusting their kashrus, even with a private name on it as the o.u. or whom ever

44

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:40 PMAnonymous Says:

“
Well you probly spoke to Agri employees that you know that he under paid them. As a former Agri worker I could tell you that there are very little emplyer's that pay as nice as Rubashkin pays. I wish kallal yisroel to make that much money as a agri worker.. ”

Youre joking, right? You can't read the indictment from the labor department taht he charged the workers for the clothes taht they wore, right?

My friend, you drank the kool-aid and you want all of us to drink with you

45

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:34 PMAnonymous Says:

Reply To Cher from #14. Whether or not he is found innocent in the end, the Chillul Hashem Damage has already been done. We have a responsibility to prevent Chilul Hashem not just avoid criminal behaviour. Even if a judge and jury find him not legally or criminally responsible, and even if he is a nice guy, a Baal Tzedakka and a Baal Chesed, there is still a stench of Chilul Hashem and it reflects badly not just on him and his company but on all of us. We should therefore learn a lesson from this and reinforce in ourselves the obligation to be Mekadesh Shem Shomayim and be doubly vigilant that our business affairs are beyond reproach.

46

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:15 PMAnonymous Says:

“
what the hell do you want from these yidden YOUR brother. (like it or not)

so they screwed around a bit here and there , things that everyone in America is doing. Not that its right but c'mon give me a break, The Kashrus was never in question and thousands of Jewish souls were strengthened by observing Kashrus.

What do you think all these Jews who now don't have kosher meat in their grocery stores are eating?? Treif. are you now happy.

Better now that we have blemished and harmed so many souls at the cheshbon of some workers being taking advantage of (and it is wrong that this was going on but put things in perspective)

If there were areas that needed change and improvement let us work on that, but were does all this achzorius come from.

ki loi mibnei yisreol haimo.

”

First of all the kashrus was ALWAYS in question. Now after all these revelations of criminal offenses, their integrity is more than ever called into question, as well as the kashrus status. Secondly, even if their products were indeed kosher l'mehadrin min hamehadrin (which is not the case), what right do they have to trample upon US law and treat both workers and animals so abusively? As Rabbi Dr. Breuer once said, we need glatt yosher before glatt kosher!

47

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:14 PMChaim Says:

“
what the hell do you want from these yidden YOUR brother. (like it or not)

so they screwed around a bit here and there , things that everyone in America is doing. Not that its right but c'mon give me a break, The Kashrus was never in question and thousands of Jewish souls were strengthened by observing Kashrus.

What do you think all these Jews who now don't have kosher meat in their grocery stores are eating?? Treif. are you now happy.

Better now that we have blemished and harmed so many souls at the cheshbon of some workers being taking advantage of (and it is wrong that this was going on but put things in perspective)

If there were areas that needed change and improvement let us work on that, but were does all this achzorius come from.

ki loi mibnei yisreol haimo.

”

Are you serious? I guarantee there is not a single Jew in America who used to pay for Glatt Kosher Rubashkin meat who now eats treif.

49

Oct 30, 2008 at 03:56 PMFreedom Fighter Says:

If I was an alien coming down from another planet, I would think that the entire financial world crisis, the fraud on Wall street, the war in Iraq was caused by Rubashkin.

The viciousness, the over-active prosecution, the astronomical out-of-proportion fines would make me believe this man is the number 1 on Americas' most wanted list.

But the humble truth is that he is an exceptionally decent man, who treated everyone around him with kindness. That despite his wealth lived in a very humble home, drove plain cars and dressed in plain clothing and gave his money to tzedaka, to yeshivos, to poor brides.

The government gives free health care to illegals.The government gives them free education. Rubashkin gave them jobs.

That's all. He did what the government does. Only nicer.

As Americans, this should give us all some pause.

Make sure you have no enemies. You might be next.

G-d bless this man. May the plans of those who seek to persecute him so unjustly become null and void.

50

Oct 30, 2008 at 04:23 PMRubashkin Fan Says:

“
Reply To Cher from #14. Whether or not he is found innocent in the end, the Chillul Hashem Damage has already been done. We have a responsibility to prevent Chilul Hashem not just avoid criminal behaviour. Even if a judge and jury find him not legally or criminally responsible, and even if he is a nice guy, a Baal Tzedakka and a Baal Chesed, there is still a stench of Chilul Hashem and it reflects badly not just on him and his company but on all of us. We should therefore learn a lesson from this and reinforce in ourselves the obligation to be Mekadesh Shem Shomayim and be doubly vigilant that our business affairs are beyond reproach. ”

You are reading there paper's while I was working there. I dont know how he treats the illegal's, probably like anyone else. However the normal legal workers get paid much more then any company I know.

54

Oct 30, 2008 at 05:04 PMAnonymous Says:

"The world is relying on him for Kashrus and Tzedoka. May all the good he has done be a z'chus and protect him from all harm."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His tzedaka was money stolen from the workers. His KAshrus was in doubt. This is a true chillul Hashem, en masse. We should learn a lesson from this. No one is immune from Hashem's wrath. ”

the same thing will now happened to you.lets see how you feel when it does.

55

Oct 30, 2008 at 05:49 PMWho Gives a Hechsher on Agri, Now? Says:

This terrible Chilul Hashem can only get much worse, if the OU refuses to Pull their Hechsher now, just because they are "playing musical chairs", to swish around who is the official CEO of Agri, "just for the record".

If the OU continues the Hechsher now, it will be almost like official Cart Blanch that the OU certifies that it's Kosher to break American Law and still remain certified Kosher.

56

Oct 30, 2008 at 05:38 PMAnonymous Says:

“
Did you read the article? It clearly says that they found "dozens of fraudulent permanent resident alien cards" in their office. How can they possibly claim innocence or ignorance? #22 Hirshel from Monsey said it best. "They need to leave this business, before they bankrupt themselves and totally tarnish frim yidden". ”

FYI they stooped the shchitah 3 days ago... guess they knew something was coming...

57

Oct 30, 2008 at 05:37 PMAnonymous Says:

“
Did you read the article? It clearly says that they found "dozens of fraudulent permanent resident alien cards" in their office. How can they possibly claim innocence or ignorance? #22 Hirshel from Monsey said it best. "They need to leave this business, before they bankrupt themselves and totally tarnish frim yidden". ”

it does not say how they got there... were they the ones that the WORKERS broight to show they "legal" status???

58

Oct 30, 2008 at 05:25 PMAnonymous Says:

59

Oct 30, 2008 at 04:55 PMEli Says:

This is a set up. On December 12, 2006, ICE -Immigration and Customs Enforcement -arrested 1,297 illegal aliens after an executed search at Swift facilities in the following six cities: Marshalltown, Iowa; Grand Island, Neb.; Worthington, Minn.; Greeley, Colo.; Hyrum, Utah; and Cactus, Texas. Subsequently, and only 274 of those arrested were criminally charged with identity theft or using fraudulent documents and with due process. Employees awaiting for adjustment of status were not charged. At Agriprocessor every person detained regardless of status was charged and without due process...please read the following. http://judiciary.house.gov/hearings/pdf/Camayd-Freixas080724.pdf

So there is a double standard. President Bush permitted ICE to execute this raid without Congressional approval. The Department of Homeland Security is part of the executive branch. Does the President knows how much this he is affecting the observant Jewish community? Does he knows that this is an attack to our faith and religious practices? Does he knows that this antisemitic? For a President that pledges his support to the great State of Israel, he sure does not get it.

Stop this non-sense, this is political issue and someone has to pay for it. There are between 12 - 18 million undocumented aliens in this nation and we are hypocrites to accuse one and all the companies harvesting undocumented. The majority of business in the US survive on the labor of this underground force, but it is easier to raid a plan and therefore meet the quotas of ICE to maintain their multimillion dollar budget. I don't agree with illegal immigration, but this nation has under the present administration halted every attempt to legalized the undocumented labor force. I rather know who is here than to foster a force of nameless, faceless, and paperless workers - who are they? Why and post 9/11 we do not have an account of this workers?

I understand that the democratic majority is to blame, for they have halted the process and proposals as to capitalize on the Hispanic vote and hijack the immigration agenda as their sole initiative.

It is time for the Jewish community to realize that this is the beginning of a new era in America. Watch and be alert, lets support Sholom Rubashkin and lets pray for him.

If this is the way we are treated under this administration, I don't want to be here when Obama is elected. This raid has seriously affected my religious practices.

61

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:04 PMAnonymous Says:

“
hahah you make me laugh, would love to see how clean you would be if the feds come after you, by the way you know if you ever applied for a cradit card and you wrote that you make more money then you really do, thats 7 years in the cell... oh in case you want to know the head lines will be.... Feds busted local man for fraud, it might even make the front page which will say, Jewish man busted for fraud. so dont come on here claiming how bad everyone is,,, and u r so clean,, you know if the feds want u are a goner toooo ”

He's right! And no, I never would write that I make more than I really do on a cc application...what an fing idiot!

62

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:07 PMAnonymous Says:

63

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:07 PMAnonymous Says:

Yudel hasn't put this on his blog as of yet, I hope he isn't feeling happy & victorious, I wonder if he knows something he should be ashamed of. Only my thought out loud. This is not a happy day, for Klal Yisroel.

64

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:08 PMAnonymous Says:

“
do you have a cleaning lady? did you ever check her papers?? do you pay her on the books and pay taxes for her? Well, if you don't you don't follow the law, and you should be arrested just like rubashkin!!!! ”

Very well said.The same goes to all that are crying "Chilul Hashem". Only till you get cought CH"V..Cleaning lady is only one example.How about when you buy something through the web or from any mail-order house outside of your stste. Do you know you are suposed to pay sales tax to your state for that purchase? I wonder how many of you do that.

65

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:14 PMVeggie Says:

It is time for the OU to stand down and pull their certification IMMEDIATELY if not sooner! How many lies can people beleive about them? Thing is, they can't pull it out, because they are money hungry themselves.. This is yet another sad case of jews making public spectacles of themselves under the guise of religion. Shame on the concert ban rabbis for not banning agri & the ou, and shame on people who support them!

67

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:21 PMAvraham Abba Says:

"The world is relying on him for Kashrus and Tzedoka. May all the good he has done be a z'chus and protect him from all harm."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His tzedaka was money stolen from the workers. His KAshrus was in doubt. This is a true chillul Hashem, en masse. We should learn a lesson from this. No one is immune from Hashem's wrath. ”

Wow! what a big tzadik you are1 Steals money from the workers...those workers would kill their family members to get even a part time job at Agri. That salary was in itself already tzedaka to the non Jewish people who loved getting it. Hey you tzadik, stop buying in all the grocery stores when you know who is cleaning the shelves and mopping up in aisle 4. How mature are you if you can not see the President of the U.S. listening to all his farming pals in Texas when they tell him to allow the illegals to storm in so they can escape the high wages Americans would demand. Where was your voice when you watched president Bush make empty promises about rounding them up and about building a fence. Only now, when a Jewish family gets in trouble, do you protest.Me?guess what? I intend to eat meat only on Shabbos, Yom Tovim and at simchas. It's enough they are down on the floor under the PETA and FBI boots, you have to go join and kick them when they are down?

68

Oct 30, 2008 at 06:49 PMBoruch Hashem Says:

Boruch hashem he is either home or on the way! I hear from the people of postville that the workers all liked Rubashkin, they worked long hours because they wanted to, there were lines of people that wanted to work there. The charges against him numbered so high because they counted each hour that an underaged, 17 year old worked there. The families were mistreated by the government - families torn apart - at first they even arrested both parents from families of small children - the school emptied out - were deported without having a chance to sell their car or other belongings - and others have to sit in jail at least five years. Their wrongdoing for working, not on their own name, did not cause any harm to anyone, on the contrary, they were paying their taxes. Their treatment was not suitable to their crime. Of course there is someone out there to get the Rubashkins - but kinderlech- s'fran an aibershter oif der velt - and everything is for the good - we should be zoiche to see it.

73

Oct 30, 2008 at 07:37 PMAnonymous Says:

“
This terrible Chilul Hashem can only get much worse, if the OU refuses to Pull their Hechsher now, just because they are "playing musical chairs", to swish around who is the official CEO of Agri, "just for the record".

If the OU continues the Hechsher now, it will be almost like official Cart Blanch that the OU certifies that it's Kosher to break American Law and still remain certified Kosher. ”

74

Oct 30, 2008 at 07:31 PMAnonymous Says:

“
do you have a cleaning lady? did you ever check her papers?? do you pay her on the books and pay taxes for her? Well, if you don't you don't follow the law, and you should be arrested just like rubashkin!!!! ”

if u dont want to worry about paying taxes for your shiksa then just hire one from a cleaning agency . that didnt take much thinking did it now?

75

Oct 30, 2008 at 07:26 PMAnonymous Says:

The USA has to make up their mind-are we gonna crack down on illegal immigrants all the way? If we will then let's do it right not by targeting one or two companies in the country. I don't know about all areas but where I live over 60%!! of our exorbitant property taxes goes to educate their children amounting to hundreds of millions of dollars a year just in my municipality alone. The government is so wishy washy it's just unbelievable. And to the smart guy that posted #46 that the Kashrus was ALWAYS questionable. Can you back up your words in ANY way whatsoever? They have had great hashgachos. Put your politics aside and focus on Kashrus not your old baloney.

78

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:02 PMMenter Says:

"The world is relying on him for Kashrus and Tzedoka. May all the good he has done be a z'chus and protect him from all harm."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His tzedaka was money stolen from the workers. His KAshrus was in doubt. This is a true chillul Hashem, en masse. We should learn a lesson from this. No one is immune from Hashem's wrath. ”

If the world is relying on him for Kashrus than you DON'T know what Kashrus is.

81

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:07 PMbigwheeel Says:

“
That's the results of a Liberal Goverment in Iowa, and liberal congressman of Iowa.If another guy would do the same, no arrests would be made.Obama, spoke against them is public only because he is a heimishe yid.A shame in the united states.The entire kosher process is under attack, don be a fool, wake up.”

He is a tiyerer Yid and he and the entire Rubashkin family are baalei Chesed of the first order. We hope and pray and wish them the best. But, the [main] reason that he was [unfortunately] arrested is because of the false Alien Registration Cards. Certainly he (MR. Rubashkin) was not the initiator of this operation. As is evident from the news report. It was a [private] business venture of one of the employees. But he failed to stop it! Therefore the Government holds him responsible as the Company's Chief Executive officer!!!

83

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:06 PMIs it a Kashrus Problem? Says:

Giving a Hechsher on a criminal entity is much worse than just a "Kashrus Problem" because giving such a Hechsher is a Chilul Hashem, it's like the saying that Yiden officially condone disregard of the law that "Rabbi's" give their seal of approval as "KOSHER" to people who show total disregard of the law.

84

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:05 PMAnonymous Says:

WAKE UP. WE ARE NO DIFFERENT THAN RUSSIA. THE GOVT CAN ARREST WHOMEVER THEY WANT. rUSSIA did not arrest every person, only trhose that they wanted. SO LOOK IN THE MIRROR. YOU TOO CAN BE IN JAIL, AND WILL BE, IF THE GOVT SO CHOOSES. I KNOW YOU, YOU BROKE A LAW. BE REAL.

85

Oct 30, 2008 at 07:57 PMShaul in Monsey Says:

“
do you have a cleaning lady? did you ever check her papers?? do you pay her on the books and pay taxes for her? Well, if you don't you don't follow the law, and you should be arrested just like rubashkin!!!! ”

This comment is just silly. You simply can't compare hiring an undocumented cleaning lady with hiring undocumente workers in a factory where safety and health concerns abound.

I don't understand where these value judgments about any of the Rubashkins are warranted. Their pesonal lives are just that - personal.

From a business perspective, however, it is clear that at best they made some serious errors in judgment, serious mismanagement of their company. At worst, the knowingly conspired to maximize profits at the expense of the workers - and ethical disaster that, if proven - would certainly have a bearing on how we, and history, should view them.

87

Oct 30, 2008 at 07:17 PMhowbadcanweget Says:

you live in the getto of Boro Park so you know no more than what's in front of your nose.

in the outback -- where there are no kosher stores and people buy kosher ONLY when its convenient, (to address their guilt) now that kosher meat has been pulled from many stores, they are back to eating traif. That's a fact .

90

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:22 PMShaul in Monsey Says:

“
He is a tiyerer Yid and he and the entire Rubashkin family are baalei Chesed of the first order. We hope and pray and wish them the best. But, the [main] reason that he was [unfortunately] arrested is because of the false Alien Registration Cards. Certainly he (MR. Rubashkin) was not the initiator of this operation. As is evident from the news report. It was a [private] business venture of one of the employees. But he failed to stop it! Therefore the Government holds him responsible as the Company's Chief Executive officer!!! ”

This comment is innacurate. Don't present comments as facts when all you're doing is being emotional. Rubasjkin, according to the court papers posted, actively participated in providing aliens with forged documents. He provided the cash needed to procure the phony IDs. So don't say it happened under his nose but his hands are clean. If the allegations are proven accurate, he knew what he was doing was illegal.

You know people, you can do all the chesed in the world. Money solves a lot of problems. But when you act in business like you're above the law and above morality too - its going to catch up with you.

I know I'd never give anyone cash to buy fake documents to pass as legit on an I9.

91

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:19 PMAnonymous Says:

“
I don't understand why people don't see the clear and obviousness of the agenda behind this situation. If you claim that this is not antisemitism then please answer the following questions. Why is it from all of the tens of raids that took place in the united states (some companies have a few raids in different locations) the only one that got this much media attention was agri? Why is it that Barack Obama mentioned agri twice but NEVER mentioned any other company employing illegal aliens that was raided and charged with child labor allegations? Why is it that the government never publicizes (in such instances) the affidavit but ONLY with agri they did - especially when they knew that many of the things were going to be proven false but would be publicized by the press (ie the pipe bomb mezuzos, the meth lab...)? Why is it that the letter that was written to the Rubashkins was signed specifically by Jewish congressmen? If you can't see how there is definitely, without a doubt, antisemitism that driving this as far as it has gone then I guess you never will. ”

which other cases are you referring to? clearly you have insider informatio that no-one else is aware of.

92

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:17 PMAnonymous Says:

“
hahah you make me laugh, would love to see how clean you would be if the feds come after you, by the way you know if you ever applied for a cradit card and you wrote that you make more money then you really do, thats 7 years in the cell... oh in case you want to know the head lines will be.... Feds busted local man for fraud, it might even make the front page which will say, Jewish man busted for fraud. so dont come on here claiming how bad everyone is,,, and u r so clean,, you know if the feds want u are a goner toooo ”

" by the way you know if you ever applied for a cradit card and you wrote that you make more money then you really do, thats 7 years in the cell"Why would I do that? I dont lie. Midvar sheker tirchak. Ring a bell?

93

Oct 30, 2008 at 09:08 PMAnonymous Says:

reply to #67Wow! what a big tzadik you are1 Steals money from the workers...those workers would kill their family members to get even a part time job at Agri. **************************************************************looks like Rubashkin is now hiring murderers to do his dirty work

That salary was in itself already tzedaka to the non Jewish people who loved getting it. *********************************************************************************The shtetl mentality that you are displaying is the reason that Rubashkin got into trouble. Treat a goy like a piece of dirt and this is the reward.....

Hey you tzadik, stop buying in all the grocery stores when you know who is cleaning the shelves and mopping up in aisle 4. ***********************************************************No, they actually checked their workers out

How mature are you if you can not see the President of the U.S. listening to all his farming pals in Texas when they tell him to allow the illegals to storm in so they can escape the high wages Americans would demand. Where was your voice when you watched president Bush make empty promises about rounding them up and about building a fence.*********************************************************What are you talking about??

Only now, when a Jewish family gets in trouble, do you protest.*************************************************************************When you get a speeding ticket - do you blame the cop for being an anti-semitic racist?On Nov 3, Moshe Rubashkin has to go back to court. What did you do to help him?? Or his son?? BTW, he pleaded guilty

Me?guess what? I intend to eat meat only on Shabbos, Yom Tovim and at simchas. It's enough they are down on the floor under the PETA and FBI boots, you have to go join and kick them when they are down?*********************************************************************We all warned him to clean up his act. Did you give him mussar or did you tell him that it was right to kick the goyim. Remember, non-jews also read this blog

94

Oct 30, 2008 at 09:01 PMAnonymous Says:

“
I don't understand why people don't see the clear and obviousness of the agenda behind this situation. If you claim that this is not antisemitism then please answer the following questions. Why is it from all of the tens of raids that took place in the united states (some companies have a few raids in different locations) the only one that got this much media attention was agri? Why is it that Barack Obama mentioned agri twice but NEVER mentioned any other company employing illegal aliens that was raided and charged with child labor allegations? Why is it that the government never publicizes (in such instances) the affidavit but ONLY with agri they did - especially when they knew that many of the things were going to be proven false but would be publicized by the press (ie the pipe bomb mezuzos, the meth lab...)? Why is it that the letter that was written to the Rubashkins was signed specifically by Jewish congressmen? If you can't see how there is definitely, without a doubt, antisemitism that driving this as far as it has gone then I guess you never will. ”

you have lots of questions . your questions do not take away from the severity of this particular case . instead of asking questions do some homework and u will answer most if not all of your questions . when rubashkin is released you can ask him any remaing questions

96

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:57 PMMeatloaf Says:

"If the OU continues the Hechsher now, it will be almost like official Cart Blanch that the OU certifies that it's Kosher to break American Law and still remain certified Kosher."

Don't you understand? The OU doesn't care about ethics. It's only concern is ritual purity. As long as the animal was slaughtered correctly, they believe the meat is kosher! The OU has made a joke out of kashrut and they have done great harm to the image of Judaism. They have degraded us all by their failure to properly supervise this company. I am afraid they have done irreperable harm. How can we say to our children that Judaism represents what G-d really wants and how G-d wants us to behave if this is an example of a frum company?

98

Oct 30, 2008 at 09:33 PMAnonymous Says:

What a major chillul this is . My wife & I just decided that after all these allegations and the latest news of todays arrest we have no choice but to toss in the garbage an ENTIRE freezer load of RUBASHKIN POULTRY AND MEAT. Between todays freezer loss and the amount we tossed when the Finkel story im begining to wonder if its even worth stocking up on meat/chicken.

99

Oct 30, 2008 at 09:29 PMAnonymous Says:

“
That's the results of a Liberal Goverment in Iowa, and liberal congressman of Iowa.If another guy would do the same, no arrests would be made.Obama, spoke against them is public only because he is a heimishe yid.A shame in the united states.The entire kosher process is under attack, don be a fool, wake up.”

HE broke the law & got caught, what part of the equation do you not get! Because someone else does the same thing and does not get caught that makes it ok? At this point it seems the Government has more than enough evidence to make the arrest and prosecute the case. Why must everyone think it is always a conspiracy againt Yidden. You do the crime, you do the time. We are not above the law.

101

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:50 PMex frummie Says:

“
This comment is just silly. You simply can't compare hiring an undocumented cleaning lady with hiring undocumente workers in a factory where safety and health concerns abound.

I don't understand where these value judgments about any of the Rubashkins are warranted. Their pesonal lives are just that - personal.

From a business perspective, however, it is clear that at best they made some serious errors in judgment, serious mismanagement of their company. At worst, the knowingly conspired to maximize profits at the expense of the workers - and ethical disaster that, if proven - would certainly have a bearing on how we, and history, should view them. ”

102

Oct 30, 2008 at 08:48 PMAnonymous Says:

Yes, there were two other major raids, one much larger than AGRI's raid, and both Goyishe companies. So, there goes the BS excuse that it is anti-semitism.---They found BLANK fake IDs. Those were being created on the premises, not left there by applicants.---Bottom line, this man is a criminal, and has been arrested.

Yes, it is horrible that a Yid was arrested.Yes, it is a giant Chillul Hashem.

109

Oct 30, 2008 at 09:48 PMAnonymous Says:

Rubashkin is a crook! Plain and simple. He hires illegal aliens, Underage kids and his company tortures animals. Because he is a Yid does that make what he does right? Shame on all of you who support him.

110

Oct 30, 2008 at 09:54 PMfacts please Says:

“
Yes, there were two other major raids, one much larger than AGRI's raid, and both Goyishe companies. So, there goes the BS excuse that it is anti-semitism.---They found BLANK fake IDs. Those were being created on the premises, not left there by applicants.---Bottom line, this man is a criminal, and has been arrested.

Yes, it is horrible that a Yid was arrested.Yes, it is a giant Chillul Hashem.

But those who still believe he is innocent are foolish. ”

Excuse me but can please point to a source for your statement that "blank" id cards were found in agri? it is another example of the outright fabrications that have been going around.

112

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:11 PMhello? Says:

“
Rubashkin is a crook! Plain and simple. He hires illegal aliens, Underage kids and his company tortures animals. Because he is a Yid does that make what he does right? Shame on all of you who support him.”

it seems you have no need for the american justice system! what happend to due process? and besides rubashkin never tortured animals. the peta videos while not pretty don't present any problems with the shechita. back when they first came out, a letter signed by many rabbonim, from all circles, clearly stated that the shechita is 100% kosher.

113

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:10 PMShaul in Monsey Says:

All of a sudden Ralbag's Triangle-K on Hebrew national/Conagra franks isn't looking so bad...

BTW, I have heard that the entire glatt business was a conspiracy created by a cartel of shoichtim to drive up profits and that in reality its all nonsense. But I'm not mekabel. One yid would never take advantage of another (and don't let the dripping sarcasm get on your keyboard either).

115

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:02 PMAnonymous Says:

“
Yes, there were two other major raids, one much larger than AGRI's raid, and both Goyishe companies. So, there goes the BS excuse that it is anti-semitism.---They found BLANK fake IDs. Those were being created on the premises, not left there by applicants.---Bottom line, this man is a criminal, and has been arrested.

Yes, it is horrible that a Yid was arrested.Yes, it is a giant Chillul Hashem.

But those who still believe he is innocent are foolish. ”

well, were they in the news every day and seconds?and in 6 months would they still be in it?all of u coursing rubashkins will just c ur courses and their business prosper iyh!!

116

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:02 PMAnonymous Says:

“
This comment is just silly. You simply can't compare hiring an undocumented cleaning lady with hiring undocumente workers in a factory where safety and health concerns abound.

I don't understand where these value judgments about any of the Rubashkins are warranted. Their pesonal lives are just that - personal.

From a business perspective, however, it is clear that at best they made some serious errors in judgment, serious mismanagement of their company. At worst, the knowingly conspired to maximize profits at the expense of the workers - and ethical disaster that, if proven - would certainly have a bearing on how we, and history, should view them. ”

Can you explain what does health and safety have to do with legal or illegal workers? these undocumented workers are regular people, if agri's plant wouldve been in mexico then these workers would be just fine,dont forget these are normal regular people from other countries , they just happen not to have proper papers to be in the usa. Health and safety is a totally separate issue.

119

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:22 PMdovid Says:

“
Rubashkin is a crook! Plain and simple. He hires illegal aliens, Underage kids and his company tortures animals. Because he is a Yid does that make what he does right? Shame on all of you who support him.”

we live in america not russia .here u are innocent until proven guilty so shut up.

Can you explain what does health and safety have to do with legal or illegal workers? these undocumented workers are regular people, if agri's plant wouldve been in mexico then these workers would be just fine,dont forget these are normal regular people from other countries , they just happen not to have proper papers to be in the usa. Health and safety is a totally separate issue. ”

The original poster tried to draw a parallel between illegal workers at Rubashkin and anyone hiring a cleaning lady without checking their papers and reporting the income. The comparison is stam tipshus.

The fact is, with such a thriving business, the last thing anyone should have been doing at Agri is hiring illegals. I don't know about you, but for me millions of dollars in profit generated by people like me should be enough for someone without getting greedy. How can you compare the Agri business with the Guat that comes to my house twice a week to clean?

And of course the government should go after large companies that hire illegals, and not cleaning ladies, for many reasons, including the potential risks involved in working in such a dangerous place as one where slaughtering is taking place. Here in my house we have yet to slaughter anything so its probably a lot safer than the kill floor in Postville.

I hope that clarifies my comment for you. And if it does, please go to Getty on 59 and prepay a cholent for me. Thanks in advance - its a pareve cholent so I am not worried about the hechsher.

122

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:12 PMkleine keplach Says:

All of a sudden this is a chillus hashem ! The same thing happened at Tyson's and no one said a thing as well as a number of other fortune 500 companies. It is litterally impossible to hire so many workers that are legals. I am sure that some smart one will say it is possible. If that is you please post your name and address and I will set up an interview for you.

It is so tough to run this type of company with legals which caused so many companies to outsource (which is a legal form of illegal aliens, I know it is a oxymoron).

To summarize - if you say that it is a cholul hashem it translates that you know nothing about current state of american business

123

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:10 PMChaim Says:

“
do you have a cleaning lady? did you ever check her papers?? do you pay her on the books and pay taxes for her? Well, if you don't you don't follow the law, and you should be arrested just like rubashkin!!!! ”

There is another difference, not only in the size of the crime but in degree of education and responsibility of the perpetrator.

If Mr. NOBODY who is uneducated and perhaps is not even aware that he should check for documents, of a cleaning lady, gives her $50 or 80 for a few hours of work, he or she may not even realize or not even THINK about what they are doing and perhaps they are not even realizing that any crime is taking place at all.

However if this same perpetrator was not Mr. uneducated, Mr. Jo Shmo, but if this same crime was done by someone who graduated from law School or by the President of he USA, then they would - Throw The book at him - because he HAD TO KNOW BETTER than to - not realize what he is doing.

How much more so, when someone is the CEO of a Multi MILLION dollar business, - you better believe it, that they know, VERY WELL, exactly, what they are doing - and they know all the laws and have full responsibility, knowledge and premeditation of their deliberate planed crime BY DESIGN (not by accident).

124

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:08 PMChaim Says:

“
do you have a cleaning lady? did you ever check her papers?? do you pay her on the books and pay taxes for her? Well, if you don't you don't follow the law, and you should be arrested just like rubashkin!!!! ”

What you say is plain silly and childish.

How can you even think, to compare a private simple uneducated, individual hiring, haphazardly, a single cleaning lady, hiring her for just a few hours, a one shot deal, not even thinking of asking her for documentation to when a multi MILLION dollar company does something like that to hundreds of workers in the order of hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars at stake and even has the audacity to have a Fake ID card factory on premises and have the CEO finance it?

You want to tell me that you are really - so smart - that you really can't discern the difference at all?

Every crimes is a crime.

If someone fails to put in a quarter in to the parking meter it is a crime.

When a murder Kills someone it's also a crime - so crime is a crime.

You can't tell the difference between them?

You can't compare a minor crime, done on a minuscule scale to a multi million dollar powerful company, with educated professionals running it, doing - crime - on a huge grand scale.

125

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:01 PMisi Says:

“
if he is such a tzadik as u say he is, then let it be ~TZADIK GOZER V`HAKODOSH BARUCH HU MEKAYEM. ~Lets see whAt rubashkin is gozer. Lets see his true tzidkis ”

Why are the enjoyment by some of what is happening to a fellow Yid. Just remember the ultimate Court for a Yid is Hashem, I can assure you that he has many more Zechusim than your average person, and he sure doesn't spend his time on blogs bashing fellow yidden

126

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:56 PMAnonymous Says:

“
What a major chillul this is . My wife & I just decided that after all these allegations and the latest news of todays arrest we have no choice but to toss in the garbage an ENTIRE freezer load of RUBASHKIN POULTRY AND MEAT. Between todays freezer loss and the amount we tossed when the Finkel story im begining to wonder if its even worth stocking up on meat/chicken. ”

why didn't you ask a rav first? just because this is going on doesn't mean the chicken/meat is not kosher, chas v'shalom.

127

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:51 PMAnonymous Says:

“
We should all learn a lesson from this not to fool around with the law and to respect it. You can try to justify it from today till tommorrow - with excuses such as "Americans don't want to work in meat packing plants". or "Kosher meat prices will go through the roof". But at the end of the day all the Tzedoka and excuses in the world can not mitigate the Chilul Hashem taking place because of this. I would have gladly not eaten meat or chicken for the last 5 years if it would have helped prevent this Chilul Hashem. ”

I am sure you have no understanding in business. If you did you would understand that aliens are a part of what is necessary to run a successful business. It is apparent that the machine behind this craze it the meat packers union. Especially from the comments that obama made (that he received his info from the union) From the way the union operates it seems that they are the human meat packers union.

128

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:48 PMAnonymous Says:

“
The original poster tried to draw a parallel between illegal workers at Rubashkin and anyone hiring a cleaning lady without checking their papers and reporting the income. The comparison is stam tipshus.

The fact is, with such a thriving business, the last thing anyone should have been doing at Agri is hiring illegals. I don't know about you, but for me millions of dollars in profit generated by people like me should be enough for someone without getting greedy. How can you compare the Agri business with the Guat that comes to my house twice a week to clean?

And of course the government should go after large companies that hire illegals, and not cleaning ladies, for many reasons, including the potential risks involved in working in such a dangerous place as one where slaughtering is taking place. Here in my house we have yet to slaughter anything so its probably a lot safer than the kill floor in Postville.

I hope that clarifies my comment for you. And if it does, please go to Getty on 59 and prepay a cholent for me. Thanks in advance - its a pareve cholent so I am not worried about the hechsher. ”

I would pay for your cholent but a.illegal workers made the cholent.b.the beans and barley were picked by illegals.c. youre already full of enough hot air.

129

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:19 PMAnti-Semitism, Conspiracy Theory? Says:

To all those who want to "Play the RACE CARD" and claim that all the Rubashkin troubles are merely "Anti_Semitism":

I ask you:

Was the Shevach Monsey Meat scandal also "Anti-Semitism" or do you Finlay realize that it is possible for someone to be a very nice looking "TZADIK" and give a Shiur in DAF YOMI, in Monsey every day and give a lot of Tzedaka and have something VERY, VERY MAJOR WRONG?

And it's not "Anti_Semitism"!

It's all based on the false premise that as long as someone gives Tzedaka and is perceived to be looking like a Tzadik, he can do whatever he wants, regardless of what is right and what is wrong because his TZEDAKA, he imagines, will "Make Up" for everything.

130

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:47 PMAnonymous Says:

I do not understand most of the comments written. I have been following this story very carefully and there are several facts that are clear. 1. the laws of immigration were broken, either by Mr. Rubashkin himself, or WITH HIS KNOWLEDGE.2. He denies knowing anything, but there are at least 3 witnesses who state that he funded the new workers by loaning them the money to purchase false immigration papers.

This is a chilul Hashem. I do not care if he gives alot of Tzedakah. I don't care if he learns Daf each day. We are ALL required to follow Halachah - none of us are exempt. If you learn Daf and break the law, one does not mitigate the other.

The worst thing about this is people DEFENDING someone who broke the law. What does that say about "our values"? We only have to act halachically with each other, but we do not have to act in an ethical manner with the "outside" world?

132

Oct 30, 2008 at 10:43 PMV'uhavtu L'reiachu Says:

Innocent until proven Guilty is every American citizens right, and Sholom Rubashkin should be no different. and in addition we as yiden should be dan l'kaf zechus (regardless what your take is on Agri Processors) and according to halacha one cannot be guilty based on 1 witness, especially if the witness has to gain by saying bad things about the one being accused, so even if he is found guilty in US court, we as yiden still have to be dan l'kaf zechus, since according to the halcha the evidence claimed against him is invalid, it IS a tragic Chillel Hashem but you still have to be dan l'kaf zechus (even when it makes little sense) according to halacha

133

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:30 PMAnonymous Says:

But WHOSE FAULT IS IT? I don't believe Rubashkin was totally innocent, only because as CEO of such a big company he must have made a mistake or two. So LEGALLY as boss he may be to blame, but not morally or ethically.

Didn't any of you ever mess up? Or are you all so perfect?

The poster waaay back who said you're not arrested if you're not guilty. That's not true. Innocent people ARE arrested every day. That's why we don't presume guilt, we presume innocence unless guilt is so obvious it's beyond reasonable doubt. Of course, that doesn't apply to all you mavens who, with your Yeshiva educations & lousy English skills are experts in the law. You know everything, right???

Oh, to poster #98...don't throw away all your meat & chicken! I'll take it! Just give me your address, I could use it, & so could some hungry families I know.

134

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:24 PMAron Says:

“
What a major chillul this is . My wife & I just decided that after all these allegations and the latest news of todays arrest we have no choice but to toss in the garbage an ENTIRE freezer load of RUBASHKIN POULTRY AND MEAT. Between todays freezer loss and the amount we tossed when the Finkel story im begining to wonder if its even worth stocking up on meat/chicken. ”

Before you empty your freezer (baal tashchis?), contact me. I will GLADLY take all your Rubashkin meat off your hands. In fact, I asked my wife to ONLY buy Rubashkin, if possible. I grew up with Sholom, Heshy, and their saintly father. Not only will I trust their meat, I will trust them with my life. (by the way to all you bashers: is it "only 14 days since Yom Kippur", or "don't worry, you've got 340 days until next Yom Kippur" ?)

138

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:41 PMThe Cook Says:

“
Before you empty your freezer (baal tashchis?), contact me. I will GLADLY take all your Rubashkin meat off your hands. In fact, I asked my wife to ONLY buy Rubashkin, if possible. I grew up with Sholom, Heshy, and their saintly father. Not only will I trust their meat, I will trust them with my life. (by the way to all you bashers: is it "only 14 days since Yom Kippur", or "don't worry, you've got 340 days until next Yom Kippur" ?) ”

Let's hope the rest of us can still buy Rubashkin's. I trust their meat & chicken before any other supplier. I hope I don't have to buy from somebody else, I used up all my stocks over Tishrei.

139

Oct 30, 2008 at 11:40 PMChezky Says:

“
we live in america not russia .here u are innocent until proven guilty so shut up. ”

You forgot the end of your QUOTE, which goes like this:

"Innocent until proven guilty IN A COURT OF LAW"

The point is that this rule of yours only applies to "in court of law".

It does not apply to the court of PUBLIC OPINION, where your "rules" are invalid and don't apply.

In addition:Every time a police officer arrests someone, he does so because HE CONVINCED of the perpetrators guilt and he is NOT WRONG for feeling that way.

Likewise, a every prosecutor who prosecutes a case in court BEFORE CONVICTION is 100% convinced that the perpetrator is guilty.

There is nothing wrong with the prosecutor feeling sure that the perpetrator is guilty.

Every time someone takes someone else to a Din Torah, the PLAINTIFF is convinced that the defendant is guilty and there is nothing improper about his personal conviction or anyone else who agrees with him.

As for everyone else, everyone is perfectly withing their LEGAL RIGHTS and Moral Rights to assume that any perpetrator is guilty if they want to feel that way.

You "rule" only applies to a YOTZE MIN HAKLAL, it only applies to a "court of law" but in the rest of the entire world, everyone is entiteled to assume that an accused person IS guilty, especially if there are charges with an abundance of evidence.

And for all you "SELF RIGHTEOUS" people who feel "everyone is innocent until proven guilty":

I don't think even you would have allowed your own CHILD, to work at Rubashkins' Kill Floor, "until rubashkin is proven guilty".

Why not?

Isn't he still as innocent as a Malach?

Would you trust your child with someone who is only "ACCUSED" of being a child molester. but has not been convicted yet?

Why not?

Since he is "not convicted" yet, so don't you agree that every accused child molseter is still a Malach?

140

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:02 AMAnonymous Says:

“
Yes, there were two other major raids, one much larger than AGRI's raid, and both Goyishe companies. So, there goes the BS excuse that it is anti-semitism.---They found BLANK fake IDs. Those were being created on the premises, not left there by applicants.---Bottom line, this man is a criminal, and has been arrested.

Yes, it is horrible that a Yid was arrested.Yes, it is a giant Chillul Hashem.

But those who still believe he is innocent are foolish. ”

Bottom line you never met him and you don't know what a special man he is!Chas V'shalom to say about any jew that he must be arrested anyway!!!!May Hashem take into consideration all of the amazing things he has done and may Hashem be with him!

141

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:01 AMAnonymous Says:

Please everyone take a break and relax. A yid is going through a difficult time (regardless what he did or didn't do) as Rachmanim we ask Hashem to have rachmonos and help him overcome his challenges. I've read many comments and not pointing to any in particular there are many supportive and many against. Enough is enough lets support a fellow yid and rid ourself of the animosity that is coming through the many comments.

I know Sholom Mordechai and the Rubashkin family they are extremely giving people and help out hundreds of mosdos and thousand of yidden besides providing Kashruth for a very reasonable cost. The amount of chesed they do in a quiet way is more than one can imagine. Sholom Mordechai personally cares genuinely for his workers and is a very unique person. How many of you work 18 hour days and say the entire tehillim every day and have a kvius in learning.

As Bnai Yisroel lets daven for a outcome for the good in a revealed way and support our brother in his time of tsoro, may we be the to the guelah immediately when there will be no tsoros for all of Klal Yisroel.

142

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:06 AMAnonymous Says:

“
why didn't you ask a rav first? just because this is going on doesn't mean the chicken/meat is not kosher, chas v'shalom. ”

i did ask and he told me that he too tossed out thier products but he also said that he already smelled something not so kosher awhile back and did not wait till now . he told me he stopped eating rubashkin already almost 1.5 years ago.

143

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 AMahavas yisroel Says:

Many corporations and businesses hire illegal workers. The legal process will take it's course and the truth will come out. However, the celebrity status of these "orthodox chassidic Jews", has rallied the liberal groups, local politicians, and jealous tummel mongers against these defendants. That is where the tragedy is regardless of their "presumption of innocence rights". As yiddin, we should give them our support because "kol yisroel arevim ze loze!" Even if guilty , we should stand together in giving them strength to see this through and reestablish their futures in a correct and acceptable manner.

144

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:04 AMAnonymous Says:

But WHOSE FAULT IS IT? I don't believe Rubashkin was totally innocent, only because as CEO of such a big company he must have made a mistake or two. So LEGALLY as boss he may be to blame, but not morally or ethically.

Didn't any of you ever mess up? Or are you all so perfect?

The poster waaay back who said you're not arrested if you're not guilty. That's not true. Innocent people ARE arrested every day. That's why we don't presume guilt, we presume innocence unless guilt is so obvious it's beyond reasonable doubt. Of course, that doesn't apply to all you mavens who, with your Yeshiva educations & lousy English skills are experts in the law. You know everything, right???

Oh, to poster #98...don't throw away all your meat & chicken! I'll take it! Just give me your address, I could use it, & so could some hungry families I know. ”

im not going to give away meat or chicken to someone else which i believe to be safek kosher.

147

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:37 AMLiberal outrage Says:

“
Many corporations and businesses hire illegal workers. The legal process will take it's course and the truth will come out. However, the celebrity status of these "orthodox chassidic Jews", has rallied the liberal groups, local politicians, and jealous tummel mongers against these defendants. That is where the tragedy is regardless of their "presumption of innocence rights". As yiddin, we should give them our support because "kol yisroel arevim ze loze!" Even if guilty , we should stand together in giving them strength to see this through and reestablish their futures in a correct and acceptable manner. ”

ahavas yisroel, you are 100% right.

There are immigration violations going on every day and most of the time the Liberals cry their crocodile tears for the immigrants.

The vast majority of ICE raids come to nothing. They take in a few illegal immigrants and let them go the next day and absolutely nothing is done to any of the people that hire them.

This absolutely a lynching of a person because he is an Orthodox Jew and not a liberal.

May Hashem destroy the evil PETA and their cohorts and bring a yeshua to the Rubashkin family.

148

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:44 AMAnonymous Says:

Postville, IA - Federal prosecutors have arrested Sholom Rubashkin, former CEO and VP at Agriprocessors, on a criminal complaint that alleges the man had employed hundreds of workers of all genders, keeping them for years on the company’s payroll. Sources indicate that many workers were asked to appear at the family’s kosher meatpacking plant daily, work long hours, returning home only after their shift is over. “I was given a long knife and was told to slice the meat”, says Jose, a Postville resident who prefers to be identified by his first name only. Others were asked to “clean facilities”, vacuum-pack beef and handle heavy objects. The wages, delivered in dwindling US currency, were deposited to the employees’ personal checking accounts, with many sharing monthly allocations with relatives at their native country.

150

Oct 31, 2008 at 05:04 AMshmuel B Says:

For the first time in my life i can say I am embarrassed to be called a religious jew, a brother is bleeding, a family is bleeding, a community with over 80 frum families are about to go under, and we have all the know it all's..all the frum erleche yidden that are sick of chillul hashem wishing them the worst..you people are happy? is this what your 20 years in yeshiva thought you? besides to cheat every government program. im sure if i looked into all of the 150 cementers ill find some shady stuff..so dont make like your holier then thou..take care of your self's! bottom line is i still believe in god and i cant wait till he unleashes his mighty wrath on us!i believe we need a major pogrom in nyc to teach us that a FRUM YID doesn't step on his own brother when he Is down! do you people know what our grand fathers went thru in europe not to hurt a brother??? have we got used to the luxuries of the USA? we the frum lost the meaning of frum...now frum is the same to me as reform and conservative..and dont forget Food stamps Rent control Unemployment Medicaid. WAKE UP BEFORE ITS TO LATE!!

151

Oct 31, 2008 at 03:00 AMAnonymous Says:

It is known that the new President and Congress will soon make ALL illegals LEGAL anyway. This case will soon be meaningless, and a kiddush HaShem. Some TIME is all that is needed..But, just figure why this was done less than a week before the election? Is there a way to investigate the anti-semitism here? Meanwhile, we need to pray for the Rubashkin family (and ALL Jews!) and encourage them to keep their faith and PATIENCE that their great merits will help them overcome,.

152

Oct 31, 2008 at 02:44 AMME Says:

i don't understand ?? the USA has nothing better to do then arrest people that employed illegal citizens? i mean to put a tracking bracelet on him cause he had illegal workers sounds a little strong even murderers don't even get those

153

Oct 31, 2008 at 02:33 AMAnonymous Says:

to #122You are right that immigration raids happened at a larger scale to bigger companies in the last few, but none of them got the coverage like this raid. the fact is, that when any negative news happens to any frum person it is spread all over the media and that creates a chillel hashem. (how many times did you see the Tyson food or the Marshmaton raid's on CNN, NY Times etc., ) Besides the point that the feds are really throwing the book at Agri (none of the plant operators or Managers at the other raids (at meatpacking plant) since 1996 were charged, and none of the rounded-up illegals were jailed for 5 months before being deported, like the former Agri employees) Fact is they applied much harsher rules at Agri maybe it's Antisemitism, Maybe it's because of political issues (maybe the Rubashkin's didn't support Obama in the Iowa Caucasus) Maybe it's Iowa politicians putting the pressure, and maybe it's our own reform jews or maybe PETA, but the fact is that the raid on Agri processors was from the beginning a raid to DESTROY Agri, not just to deport the illegals. Claiming Drug Factory (that flew out the window) producing Fake Cards etc., So the only charges (not that it's not though) coming from deported ILLEGALS about child labor, underpayment, etc., then it ties into indicting low level people, and using them for stories (which may have happened, or maybe not) against the Rubashkin's to get them reduced sentences etc.But with everything said it is still a tremendous chillel hashem with all the negative news (and the media portrays any indictment as a conviction, the media doesn't report anymore they decide for you)

154

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:39 AMAnonymous Says:

Give me a break. This is a lynching whoever works with unions and Dept.of Labor etc.can see right through the charges.they took narishkeiten and trumped it up.Many of you own their business when you hire a new employee you check if they have the documents required by law you don't have to dig and dig . I am confident when this is over he will come out scratched not finished. Sholom be Matzliach we are all mispalel for you.ChaZak Veametz.

155

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:05 AMCharlie Hall Says:

I just read the text of the complaint. These are very serious charges -- far worse than simply hiring an illegal immigrant housekeeper. While Mr. Rubashkin deserves the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, we should not rush to conclusions on either side, as some are here. And "everybody else does it" is neither an excuse nor a defense.

157

Oct 31, 2008 at 07:18 AMdisgusted by you all Says:

the rubashkins give tons of tzedaka and support many chabad houses, shuluchim and schools and NOT ONE OF YOU SELFISH, UNGRATEFUL, DISGUSTING people called to help out !!!! instead you sit here talking like you know what you are talking about, when you dont.

I am not commenting on guilty or not . chillul hashem or not. the point is there is a yid who needs support from the JEWISH community right now. grow spines and help a yid in need.

there are a lot of famallies that rely on rubashkin for parnosa, and when you think about it this is not only affecting rubashkins but all these famalies too.

may hashem help them through this time of need. Wether they are guilty or innoncent they need support not pettiness. Hatzlacha rabba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

159

Oct 31, 2008 at 08:30 AMMEIRA KABALKIN Says:

"The world is relying on him for Kashrus and Tzedoka. May all the good he has done be a z'chus and protect him from all harm."--------------------------------------------------------------------------------His tzedaka was money stolen from the workers. His KAshrus was in doubt. This is a true chillul Hashem, en masse. We should learn a lesson from this. No one is immune from Hashem's wrath. ”

Aside from the fact that spewing vitriol under the cover of anonymous is beneath contempt, you have passed judgements on a family and a business that has a very big זכות in having brought kosher meat to every corner of America.

161

Oct 31, 2008 at 09:09 AMchaim yankel Says:

have you ever told a story of a blood liebel to you children? have you ever insinuated in the slightest that the yid may have done something wrong to attract attention or cause suspicion? Never! Because in hind-sight it is clear that the yid was, Nebech, intentionally accused falsely. Furthermore, the Yidden in the community at that time supported the Yid in trouble because they knew he was Ehrlich and could not perpertrate whatever he was accused of. This is no different. Your children will relate the story to their children in the same manner as a blood-libel. The question is: Will they be able to truthfully relate that the Yidden of the time supported the Yid because of his Ehrlichkeit, and because they were Dan L'Kaf Zchus? That is up to us. WE are writing history now!

163

Oct 31, 2008 at 09:50 AMBabishka Says:

“
What a major chillul this is . My wife & I just decided that after all these allegations and the latest news of todays arrest we have no choice but to toss in the garbage an ENTIRE freezer load of RUBASHKIN POULTRY AND MEAT. Between todays freezer loss and the amount we tossed when the Finkel story im begining to wonder if its even worth stocking up on meat/chicken. ”

What part of "Bal tashchis" do you not understand? Did you first ask a Rav what to do with the meat? Even if your Rav paskened it is not kosher for you, is there no non-Jewish homeless shelter or soup kitchen where you could have donated the meat?

164

Oct 31, 2008 at 09:49 AMAnonymous Says:

“
The original poster tried to draw a parallel between illegal workers at Rubashkin and anyone hiring a cleaning lady without checking their papers and reporting the income. The comparison is stam tipshus.

The fact is, with such a thriving business, the last thing anyone should have been doing at Agri is hiring illegals. I don't know about you, but for me millions of dollars in profit generated by people like me should be enough for someone without getting greedy. How can you compare the Agri business with the Guat that comes to my house twice a week to clean?

And of course the government should go after large companies that hire illegals, and not cleaning ladies, for many reasons, including the potential risks involved in working in such a dangerous place as one where slaughtering is taking place. Here in my house we have yet to slaughter anything so its probably a lot safer than the kill floor in Postville.

I hope that clarifies my comment for you. And if it does, please go to Getty on 59 and prepay a cholent for me. Thanks in advance - its a pareve cholent so I am not worried about the hechsher. ”

You are missing an important point. Hiring illegals in a plant makes it easier to skimp on safety precautions. They cant complain. That is a major factor in resisting the union. The union will want to increase safety measures which obviously would come at managements expense.

165

Oct 31, 2008 at 09:46 AMoh vey! Says:

Who’s cleaning your bathroom? If you are thinking this doesn’t apply to me then here goes: Who’s cleaning your shul- I guess you. Who’s cleaning your school -I guess the principal. Who’s delivering your pizza? I guess the owner of the pizza store. Who’s peeling the potatoes and onions in your local takeout? I guess the owner’s wife.Who’s fixing your flat tire and doing your oil change? -I guess chaveirim. Who’s doing all the heavy work at the grocery? I guess the owner with all his einiklach. Who babysits for you when you go to a wedding? I guess your bubby. Who’s selling you aravos? I guess the shul candyman. Who collects money by the mikva? I guess some bored adults.The list goes on and on….Hack nisht kein chainik. Everyone should look in the mirror before they say anything.

166

Oct 31, 2008 at 09:12 AMchaim yankel Says:

I know many people outside of NY who started eating Kosher in recent years in part bec it became easier and more available. but are now eating Treifus because meat is not available or because it has become too expensive.

Oct 31, 2008 at 10:10 AMAnonymous Says:

168

Oct 31, 2008 at 10:18 AMAnonymous Says:

The fact is the government “IRS” has put a blind eye all the years on illegal’s, they work good' the pay tax, the never will claim benefits, then came along 9/11, came along homeland “ICE”, their inters is only to justify their expenses, here is where Rubashin was trapped

171

Oct 31, 2008 at 10:47 AMAnonymous Says:

“
I do not understand most of the comments written. I have been following this story very carefully and there are several facts that are clear. 1. the laws of immigration were broken, either by Mr. Rubashkin himself, or WITH HIS KNOWLEDGE.2. He denies knowing anything, but there are at least 3 witnesses who state that he funded the new workers by loaning them the money to purchase false immigration papers.

This is a chilul Hashem. I do not care if he gives alot of Tzedakah. I don't care if he learns Daf each day. We are ALL required to follow Halachah - none of us are exempt. If you learn Daf and break the law, one does not mitigate the other.

The worst thing about this is people DEFENDING someone who broke the law. What does that say about "our values"? We only have to act halachically with each other, but we do not have to act in an ethical manner with the "outside" world?

Sorry, that just does not wash. ”

"If you learn Daf and break the law, one does not mitigate the other. "I say breaking the law mitigates your daf learning, giving tzedaka ....

172

Oct 31, 2008 at 11:53 AMAnonymous Says:

Who’s cleaning your bathroom? If you are thinking this doesn’t apply to me then here goes: Who’s cleaning your shul- I guess you. Who’s cleaning your school -I guess the principal. Who’s delivering your pizza? I guess the owner of the pizza store. Who’s peeling the potatoes and onions in your local takeout? I guess the owner’s wife.Who’s fixing your flat tire and doing your oil change? -I guess chaveirim. Who’s doing all the heavy work at the grocery? I guess the owner with all his einiklach. Who babysits for you when you go to a wedding? I guess your bubby. Who’s selling you aravos? I guess the shul candyman. Who collects money by the mikva? I guess some bored adults.The list goes on and on….Hack nisht kein chainik. Everyone should look in the mirror before they say anything. ”

"If you are thinking this doesn’t apply to me then here goes: Who’s cleaning your shul- I guess you"Darn tootin' I do it. And I don't get paid. And I consider it a zchus i would never sully by breaking the law to do, or to have it done. Would you steal material to make a Talis? Dontcha think that may have averse effects on the mitzva?

173

Oct 31, 2008 at 11:49 AMAnonymous Says:

the rubashkins give tons of tzedaka and support many chabad houses, shuluchim and schools and NOT ONE OF YOU SELFISH, UNGRATEFUL, DISGUSTING people called to help out !!!! instead you sit here talking like you know what you are talking about, when you dont.

I am not commenting on guilty or not . chillul hashem or not. the point is there is a yid who needs support from the JEWISH community right now. grow spines and help a yid in need.

there are a lot of famallies that rely on rubashkin for parnosa, and when you think about it this is not only affecting rubashkins but all these famalies too.

may hashem help them through this time of need. Wether they are guilty or innoncent they need support not pettiness. Hatzlacha rabba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ”

I had a Mafia nighbor years ago and was eventually indicted for some real heavy stuff including murdr. He was also known to give tons of charity too. It didnt get him too far i dont think. Charity is NOT a deciding factor

174

Oct 31, 2008 at 11:49 AMAnonymous Says:

the rubashkins give tons of tzedaka and support many chabad houses, shuluchim and schools and NOT ONE OF YOU SELFISH, UNGRATEFUL, DISGUSTING people called to help out !!!! instead you sit here talking like you know what you are talking about, when you dont.

I am not commenting on guilty or not . chillul hashem or not. the point is there is a yid who needs support from the JEWISH community right now. grow spines and help a yid in need.

there are a lot of famallies that rely on rubashkin for parnosa, and when you think about it this is not only affecting rubashkins but all these famalies too.

may hashem help them through this time of need. Wether they are guilty or innoncent they need support not pettiness. Hatzlacha rabba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ”

"the rubashkins give tons of tzedaka and support many chabad houses, shuluchim and schools "Let's say that is true, (I have no reason to doubt it is true) and let's say, worst case scenario, the allagations are also true (not saying they are, I, like everyone else other than Mr. Rubashkin, simply do not know). What does one have to do with the other? Is it ok to break the law if you give alot of tzedaka? The Chazon Ish was known to refuse large donations where the money was earned questionably.

175

Oct 31, 2008 at 11:47 AMAnonymous Says:

“
i don't understand ?? the USA has nothing better to do then arrest people that employed illegal citizens? i mean to put a tracking bracelet on him cause he had illegal workers sounds a little strong even murderers don't even get those ”

Your an idiot . Read the WHOLE article . If i told u that he was involved in identity theft and YOU were the victim would u be ok if he got arrested?

176

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:12 PMAnonymous Says:

“
I had a Mafia nighbor years ago and was eventually indicted for some real heavy stuff including murdr. He was also known to give tons of charity too. It didnt get him too far i dont think. Charity is NOT a deciding factor ”

"I had a Mafia nighbor years ago and was eventually indicted for some real heavy stuff including murdr."LOL! The way you wrote it you make it sound like YOU were indicted ....

Oct 31, 2008 at 12:41 PMAnswer to those who support Rubashkin! Says:

And for all those who stick up for the government, well you just like those Liberals who stick up for "so called palastinians" and Islamist. But let me tell you a Terrorist does not differentiate when they blow up people. The same goes for the Goverment!

Pastor Martin Niemöller said the following..."In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." PEOPLE! WE MUST ORGANIZE MASS DEMONSTRATION ON THE WEB AND ON TH STREET AND IN FROM OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND GOVERNMENT OFFICES!

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:05 PMAnonymous Says:

And for all those who stick up for the government, well you just like those Liberals who stick up for "so called palastinians" and Islamist. But let me tell you a Terrorist does not differentiate when they blow up people. The same goes for the Goverment!

Pastor Martin Niemöller said the following..."In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." PEOPLE! WE MUST ORGANIZE MASS DEMONSTRATION ON THE WEB AND ON TH STREET AND IN FROM OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND GOVERNMENT OFFICES!

MI CHMOCHA BOELIM HASHEM! ”

Are you kidding? This isn't about religion! This is about a businessman who treated his workers the EXACT SAME WAY that the Nazis treated Jews in their labor camps.

Yes, that's right. Rubashkin is as bad as a Nazi. I don't care what shul he davens at or how much money he gives to Chabad. He's a horrible human being who has committed horrible acts unto his employees, and should spend the rest of his natural life in prison.

Let his imprisonment be a call to all of you who own businesses. Get your own house in order, or you may be next to go to jail.

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:23 PMYour worried about YOURSELF Says:

And for all those who stick up for the government, well you just like those Liberals who stick up for "so called palastinians" and Islamist. But let me tell you a Terrorist does not differentiate when they blow up people. The same goes for the Goverment!

Pastor Martin Niemöller said the following..."In Germany, they came first for the Communists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, And I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

And then . . . they came for me . . . And by that time there was no one left to speak up." PEOPLE! WE MUST ORGANIZE MASS DEMONSTRATION ON THE WEB AND ON TH STREET AND IN FROM OF THE WHITE HOUSE AND GOVERNMENT OFFICES!

MI CHMOCHA BOELIM HASHEM! ”

Comment # 177

Sounds obvious form your writing that the only reason you are defending the Rubashkins and want demonstrations etc. is because you are the same type of criminal yourself too and worried about yourself being next.

I have news for you....

Not all Jews are criminals (just in case you didn't realize that, yet) :-)

182

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:43 PMAnonymous Says:

“
"the rubashkins give tons of tzedaka and support many chabad houses, shuluchim and schools "Let's say that is true, (I have no reason to doubt it is true) and let's say, worst case scenario, the allagations are also true (not saying they are, I, like everyone else other than Mr. Rubashkin, simply do not know). What does one have to do with the other? Is it ok to break the law if you give alot of tzedaka? The Chazon Ish was known to refuse large donations where the money was earned questionably. ”

the point i was making was that no matter what happens it is a yid in trouble. everybody makes mistakes and it is not right the way the rubashkins are being dragged through the mud for what they did. let them be.

183

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:39 PMOne Jew that isn't happy Says:

Nebech on klal Yisroel, with people with a falsha rightous indignation pointing a bony finger at the Rubashkins. There is no difference in hiring one illegal worker or 1000, and trying to find a difference says a lot about its logician. Most people, politicians, law enforcement officers and police are guilty of one of those crimes "oy veh" has enumerated. Why so many people are so happy is beyond me. It is a much bigger chilul HaShem seeing so many people with hearts made of stone, then with what they are accused of, which is an accusation of one family, and not an indictment on the whole Klal Yisroel.

184

Oct 31, 2008 at 01:59 PMMeat Says:

"Are we the ortodox are the only one that have to have the seal of purity?'

The answer is we, the kosher consumers, demand a seal of purity. That is what a hashgocha is all about. It is a seal of purity and it is a seal of trust. And our trust has been violated twice in this sordid affair: 1) by the Rubashkin's, and; 2) by the Orthodox Union and Rav Wiessmandel. We put our trust in the OU and Wiessmandel and that trust has violated. It is hard to say which was worst, Rubashkin or the OU: the perpetrator or the supervisor who was supposed to be looking out for the interests of the kahilla.

185

Oct 31, 2008 at 02:39 PMWolfishMusings Says:

“
Irrespective of one's opinion of Rubashkin, we can all agree on that second statement. ”

No, we can't. Why do you assume that the animal rights movement is one big monolithic movement? There are some that are extremely militant and in-your-face, there are some (like the ALF) that are terroristic and there are some that are just out on a power trip. But there are also moderate animal rights activists who oppose the more radical sectors of their movement and who hold opinions on animals that are probably fairly consistent with yours or mine.

In other words, just like you wouldn't want all Jews to be grouped in with, or judged by the actions of some, the same applies to animal rights movement. Yes, there are some sectors of it that are dangerous, but saying "death to ALL animal rights activists" is just inflammatory, silly and ignorant.

187

“
Are you kidding? This isn't about religion! This is about a businessman who treated his workers the EXACT SAME WAY that the Nazis treated Jews in their labor camps.

Yes, that's right. Rubashkin is as bad as a Nazi. I don't care what shul he davens at or how much money he gives to Chabad. He's a horrible human being who has committed horrible acts unto his employees, and should spend the rest of his natural life in prison.

Let his imprisonment be a call to all of you who own businesses. Get your own house in order, or you may be next to go to jail. ”

You see there is a G-d in this world, whether you believe it or not. And to see you write like this on a Jew (the reason why I say a Jew, is because I question your backround I would say you most probely come from the Erev Rav - the enemy within)

Well G-d the true one who knows all truths should have pitty on your soul, you playing with fire!

You should watch that mouth of yours, because everything gets recorded up there and when the day of reconing comes you will be pleading for mercy.

You can still repent and change your evil ways, unless your whole being is just evil!

188

Oct 31, 2008 at 02:45 PMOU Boycott Says:

It is time to Boycott the OU since they have been soft on this issue. They don't have the balls to stand up and let go of a big supporter. Shame on them and shame on all of you who buy OU products. How many meat and Kashrut Scandals do there have to be to prove that Kashrut is just a joke & scam?

189

Sounds obvious form your writing that the only reason you are defending the Rubashkins and want demonstrations etc. is because you are the same type of criminal yourself too and worried about yourself being next.

I have news for you....

Not all Jews are criminals (just in case you didn't realize that, yet) :-) ”

It seems you are so naive and out of touch with reality and living in your own bubble.

190

Oct 31, 2008 at 03:12 PMAnonymous Says:

“
the point i was making was that no matter what happens it is a yid in trouble. everybody makes mistakes and it is not right the way the rubashkins are being dragged through the mud for what they did. let them be. ”

Not right? Do you say that about everyone arrested? If he did it he should go to jail. If he didn't he should not. But dont pretend like this is all trumped up charges. Thats not how it works. And anyone with half an operating brain cell knows that. They dont arrest on a whim. When they arrest they have evidence.

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Oct 31, 2008 at 03:15 PMAnonymous Says:

"Are we the ortodox are the only one that have to have the seal of purity?'

The answer is we, the kosher consumers, demand a seal of purity. That is what a hashgocha is all about. It is a seal of purity and it is a seal of trust. And our trust has been violated twice in this sordid affair: 1) by the Rubashkin's, and; 2) by the Orthodox Union and Rav Wiessmandel. We put our trust in the OU and Wiessmandel and that trust has violated. It is hard to say which was worst, Rubashkin or the OU: the perpetrator or the supervisor who was supposed to be looking out for the interests of the kahilla.”

Absolute, pure, unalduterated nonsense. You trusted the OU to make sure the ritual laws in regards to the slaghtering and preparation of animal food products were followed. It is not a labor union. It is not their job to make sure the employees were paid on time, documented, given raises, allowed vacations etc ....

Question:When an individual is know to violate civil laws, THOUSANDS of times, we know this for a fact and Torah says that when Goy is Mesaper Lefi Tumo, it is Neemanus.

This brings in to HIGH DOUBT if what we don't know about Kashrus, is perhaps also, in violation, or not.

Anyone who fears if there may possibly be any Kashrus violations, has good reason to worry, when you see a boss, who disregards all normal standards of civil law and order.

The point is that there is a very clear PATTERN here, which breaks the "Chezkas Kashrus".

The pattern here is that the boss has total disregard for all NORMS of all normal law and order and not once or twice but maintained over the YEARS and THOUSANDS of times, non-stop, Halachicaly called a: "Kolo Deloy Posik".

Why shouldn't someone "WONDER" if Kashrus Laws, are perhaps also disregarded the same way?

193

Oct 31, 2008 at 05:09 PMAri Says:

“
Absolute, pure, unalduterated nonsense. You trusted the OU to make sure the ritual laws in regards to the slaghtering and preparation of animal food products were followed. It is not a labor union. It is not their job to make sure the employees were paid on time, documented, given raises, allowed vacations etc .... ”

You are being overly simplistic and too naive about the Rubashkin/OU questionable Hechsher and Kashrus .

There is a LOT of things going on at Rubashkins Plant all the time.

The vast majority of what is going on, no one knows and no one can ever know BY DESIGN, because Rubashkin Plant RULES state, that no one, not me and not you and not any Rav, can EVER visit and inspect the plant UN-ANNOUNCED.

That means that if any Rav wants to see for himself "how Kosher" Rubashkin is, he can't just "walk in" un-announced, but must first SCHEDULE a visit.

Needless to say, if one schedules a visit, you can be sure that Rubashkin will then be fully prepared to put on a GOOD SHOW and be on their best behavior for the brief duration of the scheduled inspection.

So such inspections are worthless, since no one can ever find out what is happening at the plant, when they are not EXPECTING your inspection.