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Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

As I told you before I used efficiency as a tool not the tool, I just wanted to show some guys that thought that Danny was better than JJ that it wasn't true, I'm not even thinking about efficiency when I say that Danny is not even close to JJ, JJ has all the tools you need in player, he can dribble, he can pass, he can shoot from anywhere, he can post up, even in the crappy isolation based offense in Atlanta he was able to put huge numbers, the guy is the closest thing to a superstar in my opinion, the guy can go for 40 points and 10 assist in any given game, now compared that to Danny, Danny is good at posting up and shooting threes, he can also play some D when he want's to, what else Danny brings to the table that is better than JJ?

Again I'm not trashing or hating Danny I'm just comparing the players and their tools and is not even close.

There shouldn't be excuses for him last year either, he wasn't coached by JOB, yes he didn't have a full working offseason but nobody in the NBA had that going for them, Roy got better and didn't make excuses.

I'll give you that, JJ is easily a lot more talented than Danny. Danny has major limitations ball handling and athleticism wise. With that said though, he has managed to put up better scoring numbers than JJ for their entire careers except last year, which was prob JJ's best statistically and DG's worst, since becoming a number one option. For all of JJ'a talent and physical gifts (being that big and strong and have the ability to play guard is a blessing lol) he's never really dominated in the way you'd think he could.

Maybe the fact that DG is a bit of an overachiever is the reason ppl like me ate defending him so strongly on this subject. I tend to pull for players that do more with less (talent wise)

But I do agree 100%, as does mostly everyone else, JJ is a lot more talented than DG. Doesn't make him a player that's a whole lot better though

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Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

Can we put this "Danny is the next Reggie" to bed? It was said after his first post-season as a vet and he stepped up his game. Looking back it was not far fetched to think that, IF HE STEPPED UP IN THE PLAYOFFS LIKE THAT. Then he could be remembered as one like Reggie.

Reggie had consistent years in him in the post season. Danny isn't that and may not ever be more than he is now.

And Rashard Lewis had three years that were comparable (maybe a little less, maybe a little more) to Danny. Since then he has fallen. Danny has yet to fall off that much.

Is he Lebron? NO!!! Is he Melo? No!! (weren't people making this comment in the last half year at Denver for Melo?)
Is he a number one as much as Joe Johnson was with the Hawks? Yes. And that is why we are more like the Hawks. Our number one is not a number one. We all know this. That is why we want at least another Granger quality scorer. Did the Hawks have that? no

Johnson>Danny
Smith>>West
Horford>Hibbert
Teague
Marvin Williams<
I think if the Hawks were healthy, they could have easily been the third seed. So Granger and Johnson are on the same level, if in fact their teams were comparable (minus injuries of course).

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

The Hawks issues was not that they didn't have a number one option, the Hawks issues in my opinion was coaching, every single coach they had(have) likes to play iso ball, they also never had a "true point".

And regarding the Danny/Rashard Lewis comparison, I think you are forgetting that RL was a pretty good player in his prime, he is a 2 time AS for a reason.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

The Hawks issues was not that they didn't have a number one option, the Hawks issues in my opinion was coaching, every single coach they had(have) likes to play iso ball, they also never had a "true point".

And regarding the Danny/Rashard Lewis comparison, I think you are forgetting that RL was a pretty good player in his prime, he is a 2 time AS for a reason.

3 years that are at the most some what better than Danny's best years. Danny average over a block and a steal for 2 years. RL never did. Danny got to the FT line more. Danny was and is a better defender, hands down.

Listen I thought Danny played his worst. Which is bad coming off of two sub-par years. I don't think he is the end all. I don't think he is the next Reggie. And I don't think Turkey Bacon should have Bacon in its name. It is just not the same. It is an abomination.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

3 years that are at the most some what better than Danny's best years. Danny average over a block and a steal for 2 years. RL never did. Danny got to the FT line more. Danny was and is a better defender, hands down.

Listen I thought Danny played his worst. Which is bad coming off of two sub-par years. I don't think he is the end all. I don't think he is the next Reggie. And I don't think Turkey Bacon should have Bacon in its name. It is just not the same. It is an abomination.

Rashard Lewis had more than 3 years of good basketball I have no idea how you are only getting 3

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

Granger is very good. My biggest knock on him is that he is an underachiever.

Really? I think Granger is an overachiever. He is not that athletic nor is he smooth. He does not have great natural ability in terms of dribbling, play-making, etc. I think he works really hard and has developed a great shot. He's a bad ***. But I don't think he was "born ready" like Lance. Just look at how he developed his first 4 years. That's a sign of a hard worker, not a player with great natural gifts.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

Granger is very good. My biggest knock on him is that he is an underachiever.

I'm curious as to why you'd think Danny was an underachiever. A wing with his lack of athleticism, and court vision/natural playmaking skills (mostly played PF in college till his sr yr) normally wouldn't average close to 20ppg on a consistent basis; especially considering the fact he's playing the most competitively talent-rich position in the league (along with PG)

When compared to a JJ, Rudy Gay type of player who are way more naturally talented and athletic than Danny, I consider the fact that he produces as well, and often times better than these types has always made me feel like he was a bit of an overachiever.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

I'm curious as to why you'd think Danny was an underachiever. A wing with his lack of athleticism, and court vision/natural playmaking skills (mostly played PF in college till his sr yr) normally wouldn't average close to 20ppg on a consistent basis; especially considering the fact he's playing the most competitively talent-rich position in the league (along with PG)

When compared to a JJ, Rudy Gay type of player who are way more naturally talented and athletic than Danny, I consider the fact that he produces as well, and often times better than these types has always made me feel like he was a bit of an overachiever.

3 things off the top of my head. He has a tendency to settle for too many difficult jump shots, particularly in transition. He does not get to the free throw line well. He slacks off on defense from time to time, we have all seen his defensive potential and he doesn't always bring it.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

I'm curious as to why you'd think Danny was an underachiever. A wing with his lack of athleticism, and court vision/natural playmaking skills (mostly played PF in college till his sr yr) normally wouldn't average close to 20ppg on a consistent basis; especially considering the fact he's playing the most competitively talent-rich position in the league (along with PG)

When compared to a JJ, Rudy Gay type of player who are way more naturally talented and athletic than Danny, I consider the fact that he produces as well, and often times better than these types has always made me feel like he was a bit of an overachiever.

I am a big supporter of Danny and he is definitely an underachiever in things such as defense etc...

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

3 things off the top of my head. He has a tendency to settle for too many difficult jump shots, particularly in transition. He does not get to the free throw line well. He slacks off on defense from time to time, we have all seen his defensive potential and he doesn't always bring it.

Danny's main weapon is the jumpshot, because he doesn't have the athleticism or ballhandling to get inside more. I'd call it a physical limitation more than underachieving.

He does get to the line a lot (see my earlier post) or at least he did in 08-09 and 09-10 (his 2 best seasons). Even last year, his worst scoring year in the last 5, he still got to the line at a fair rate.

On defense, it could be that Danny just doesn't have the energy to go full tilt on both offense and defense. Very few players do. It's too bad but that's often the tradeoff you live with in your best scorer.

I dunno, maybe we just mean different things by "underachieving". I think Danny's done pretty well for himself considering his limited tools.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

While I agree that PER isn't a great stat, are you saying EFF is better?? Somebody was arguing JJ and Monta are better than Danny because of EFF, all things.

EDIT: Btw, I have no problem saying JJ is more skilled than Danny. If we're talking about more efficient though, well that's specific and quantifiable and IMO the stats show Danny to be superior over his career.

No, I'm just saying there are some obvious discrepancies the way the PERs are added up.

As for TS% vs eFG%, I don't really have a preferance towards either. I just think you need to look at how a player acquires his stats, and then determine how that helps the teams offense. I don't think Danny's playing style is helping his team as much as Joe's playing style helps his.

I would have no problem with Danny if at the end of this season he shot the exact same percentage but scaled back his shot attempts to about 14.5 per 36, raised his assist % to 15% or so, and continued to play solid D. That would be a good season for Danny IMO. I believe if did this it could help his shooting % enough that if we're one of top east teams he could be an all star again.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

Danny's main weapon is the jumpshot, because he doesn't have the athleticism or ballhandling to get inside more. I'd call it a physical limitation more than underachieving.

He does get to the line a lot (see my earlier post) or at least he did in 08-09 and 09-10 (his 2 best seasons). Even last year, his worst scoring year in the last 5, he still got to the line at a fair rate.

On defense, it could be that Danny just doesn't have the energy to go full tilt on both offense and defense. Very few players do. It's too bad but that's often the tradeoff you live with in your best scorer.

I dunno, maybe we just mean different things by "underachieving". I think Danny's done pretty well for himself considering his limited tools.

Every time I see that excuse made for a player I get sick to my stomach. It seems like a cop out to me. I'm sure it happens, in fact I think Danny made the comment himself at some point, but I don't agree with that mentality.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

Every time I see that excuse made for a player I get sick to my stomach. It seems like a cop out to me. I'm sure it happens, in fact I think Danny made the comment himself at some point, but I don't agree with that mentality.

I agree. Cause if it was so taxing, then why did April (after a long condensed schedule) be his month offensively. But that is offensively.Kobe is a better defender in the playoffs that is for sure. Hibbert gets an offensive pass when his defense is so amazing.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

I think Danny's somewhat lack of consistency on the defensive end and on the boards started once heaved more into the national spotlight. His best years under JOB his primary focus was to score. Prior to that he was a very hard worker at both. I hate it but i honestly think he believes he's most valuable as a scorer and doesn't need to focus as much on the little things (which is completely untrue)

One of the things that I hate about Danny is the fact that he can be a VERY good defender, but he only brings it against big names, but let's scrubs get 15-18 points in him.

Danny is the type that plays all put when challenged, but will otherwise coast often times. But that doesn't change the fact that someone with his level of talent has surpassed most expectations from him when he was drafted, especially offensively.

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Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

We also have to understand that the Pacers offense in general has been really horrible for a few years now. That puts a bit more pressure on someone to step up and try to provide offense. During the regular season, particularly once Barbosa showed up, scoring improved and I think that's why Danny felt less pressure and improved during the last month. In the playoffs a lot of the other scoring vanished (particularly Barbosa again) and so it might be expected that the pressure went back onto Danny and he dropped off.

BillS

A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Or throw in a first-round pick and flip it for a max-level point guard...

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

I think Danny's somewhat lack of consistency on the defensive end and on the boards started once heaved more into the national spotlight. His best years under JOB his primary focus was to score. Prior to that he was a very hard worker at both. I hate it but i honestly think he believes he's most valuable as a scorer and doesn't need to focus as much on the little things (which is completely untrue)

One of the things that I hate about Danny is the fact that he can be a VERY good defender, but he only brings it against big names, but let's scrubs get 15-18 points in him.

Danny is the type that plays all put when challenged, but will otherwise coast often times. But that doesn't change the fact that someone with his level of talent has surpassed most expectations from him when he was drafted, especially offensively.

I've been saying forever that Danny for some reason let's scrubs torch him, glad to see that somebody is mentioning this and is not trying to look the other way.

I had so many arguments about this subject and was told pretty much that I was hallucinating and that Danny was a DPOY candidate, thanks for pointing those things out.

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

I've been saying forever that Danny for some reason let's scrubs torch him, glad to see that somebody is mentioning this and is not trying to look the other way.

I had so many arguments about this subject and was told pretty much that I was hallucinating and that Danny was a DPOY candidate, thanks for pointing those things out.

I would be surprised if too many people would argue with you on this point... I think most are all well aware and in agreement that Danny often slacks on D and focuses on O unless presented with a major task like LeBron... I'm not saying it didn't happen... I would just be surprised...

Danny is a fantastic defensive player when he focuses on it instead of scoring... I really hope he takes a further step away from his JOB days this year and begins to rely more on our team's offensive balance and put more of his energy into the defensive end... I also hope he continues to get better at taking higher percentage shots as opposed to settling for 3s all day... I saw baby steps towards both of those things last year... Here's to hoping for an all in approach in both of those areas as he is now even further removed from JOB ball and transitioned to Vogel's Defense & Smashmouth ball...

Re: Pacers looking to trade Danny?

Danny "slacking on D" is old news. He played very good consistent defense all season. I always expected Danny's sometime laziness on defense had a lot to do with how the Pacers were performing as a whole and I was right. The Pacers really came together as a unit on the defensive end and Danny was easily the best defender all year.