Disco Boy wrote:FZ's commercial peak as an album seller was in 1979 and as a concert draw in 1980...

This is probably correct, and in that case the only statement in this discussion that is essentially TRUE.

What the hell are you talking about? The thread title says "ARTISTICALLY".

What do record sales have to do with Zappa's artistic peak?

A: Nothing.

You deserve praise for your commitment, but your reading skills and logic are lagging behind.

I will feed it to you in small portions. Like most other participants in this discussion, Disco Boy stated that the task of describing Zappa's artistic peak(s) is bound to be very subjective. He then introduced a tangential theme - the measurable peaks in record sales and concert attendance. In my comment, I first stated that the measurable numbers mentioned by Disco Boy are the only quantifiable peaks referred to in the discussion. Hence Disco Boy's statement is the only one in this thread that has a claim to objective truth. I then went on to mention some moments that I subjectively perceive as artistic peaks in Zappa's work. Never did I claim that record sales have anything to do with artistic peaks, which you groundlessly chastise me for.

"Perhaps when Pierre Boulez commissioned him to write 3 pieces for Boulez's Ensemble InterContemporain, and Boulez conducted them in a concert along with pieces by Elliot Carter and Charles Ives."

I think SLEEPING IN A JAR has a good point.

First off let's not forget Frank's formost "inner love" ....instumental orchestral writing.After all he was composing long before he started with the rock and roll stuff.And to have a luminary like Pierre Boulez commission Frank is just....well.....flattering!

Frank could "walk the rock" at any time...no problem...but to get his orchestral scores correctly and lovingly performed....well this must have been a HUGE desire of his.When most of his experiences with orchestras ended poorly he must have been extremely frustrated and ended up bad-mouthing the classical music world. So when the Ensemble Modern came along and "kocked his socks off" with their devotion and hard workI'm sure he was a tad giddy.

One can only imagine the stuff he would be doing today.He probably wouldn't be doing much rock and roll!!What would he be now? 73 or something?

Generally speaking I'd say the years 1966 - 1974.However I really cannot leave out The Boulez commissioned pieces, the LSO (despite Frank's issues with the musicians) and The Yellow Shark. Basically anything orchestral that he put out, I guess.

I'd say Frank had several peaks throughout his career. Much like George Carlin did with his comedy, Frank was always revising, editing, collating, (etc.) material the whole time. The peaks for me would be when he churned out a bunch of material at once such as the late 60's (UM, WRMF, BWS), Roxy era (OS, A, R&E, OSFA, L), late 70's (SY, JG), early 80's (YAWYI, 81'-82' band etc.) and the mid 80's for his classical compositions and synclavier work.

The height of his power was 68-69. Then it was a very slow decline with occasional spikes that reached very nearly as high as he did in that late 60s era (much of 200 Motels, Roxy LP side two, all of One Size Fits All, RDNZL)...

The height of his power was 68-69. Then it was a very slow decline with occasional spikes that reached very nearly as high as he did in that late 60s era (much of 200 Motels, Roxy LP side two, all of One Size Fits All, RDNZL)...

First off let's not forget Frank's formost "inner love" ....instumental orchestral writing.After all he was composing long before he started with the rock and roll stuff.And to have a luminary like Pierre Boulez commission Frank is just....well.....flattering!

Frank could "walk the rock" at any time...no problem...but to get his orchestral scores correctly and lovingly performed....well this must have been a HUGE desire of his.When most of his experiences with orchestras ended poorly he must have been extremely frustrated and ended up bad-mouthing the classical music world. So when the Ensemble Modern came along and "kocked his socks off" with their devotion and hard workI'm sure he was a tad giddy.

One can only imagine the stuff he would be doing today.He probably wouldn't be doing much rock and roll!!What would he be now? 73 or something?

couldn't have said it better myself...thanks jeddy.

_________________I can't tell when you're telling the truth.>I'm not. How do I know anything you've said to me is...>You don't.

So the guitar playing from Black Napkins and Muffin Man is Zappa in decline?

Yes he peaked before those songs

why these songs anyway?

Those 2 songs have incredible guitar solo's, remember? We were talking specifically about his guitar playing. That BF Muffin Man solo from Austin, that Black Napkins solo, edited or not, that's some particularly rare brilliance in the history of recorded music. The guitar tone on that ZA Black Napkins is once in a lifetime. It never happened quite like that again. Funny to think of it as part of a guitarist"s downhill spiral.

Sorry if I'm too lazy to read this entire thread to see if this has been said before but FZ never peaked. He died prematurely, long before he was due to peak. For example, Stravinsky was getting in trouble with the Boston police for using a dominant seventh in an arrangement of The Star Spangled Banner when he was 62. Fucking sycophantic americans.

_________________The way I see it Barry, this should be a very dynamite show.

Those 2 songs have incredible guitar solo's, remember? We were talking specifically about his guitar playing. That BF Muffin Man solo from Austin, that Black Napkins solo, edited or not, that's some particularly rare brilliance in the history of recorded music. The guitar tone on that ZA Black Napkins is once in a lifetime. It never happened quite like that again. Funny to think of it as part of a guitarist"s downhill spiral.

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