I have tried using mx-s, and 100% agree with both of you guys, to effectively use this rubber you need to be strong and be atleast 2200 ish

I don't agree. It's all about an approach to winning points. If you play with tactical spin then the rubber makes sense. If your game is about power then the rubber does not make as much sense. People who complain about MXzzS tend to be speed players.Enjoying this rubber is about what your approach to the game is not about your rating. If you are an 1800 player who likes to rally consistently with spin and spin variation, you will like this rubber as much as anything else. I don't know any rubber as all round with the same amount of spin, especially when you look at how safe it is on flat hits and blocks.

I have tried using mx-s, and 100% agree with both of you guys, to effectively use this rubber you need to be strong and be atleast 2200 ish

I don't agree. It's all about an approach to winning points. If you play with tactical spin then the rubber makes sense. If your game is about power then the rubber does not make as much sense. People who complain about MXzzS tend to be speed players.Enjoying this rubber is about what your approach to the game is not about your rating. If you are an 1800 player who likes to rally consistently with spin and spin variation, you will like this rubber as much as anything else. I don't know any rubber as all round with the same amount of spin, especially when you look at how safe it is on flat hits and blocks.

I largely agree with this. I have been using MX-S on one or both sides of my paddle fairly continuously since it came out and it has been exceedingly consistent and stable for my power looping game. It is as slow as I need it to be over the table and as fast as I need it to be off the table when I go for big loops. Since it does not top out easily, I can go as hard as I want and it remains stable. Equally importantly, its throw angle doe snot change much on bigger shots. Many sheets I have tried recently, become higher throw when you go for a hard loop. MX-S really doesn't.

Mxs is much more spinnier and doesn't top out like others have said. It is good for smashing as I do half and half of that along with loops loaded with spin. Mxs can play slow but fast if you swing into the ball. It's really not that hard to use. I just detest tenergy for inconsistent rebound although minimal now it wasn't before. But regardless it's a great rubber so is fxp

I don't doubt that this is your experience of MX-S. But since you are offering this as advice:

There are extensive discussions of MX-S' throw in this thread. You aren't the only one who considers it low throw. But this is far from unanimous. Although I'm not in a position to adjudicate, your 4 words assessment is almost certainly not the end of the story.

If ppl judge throw using a drive kinda loop where they hit through the sponge, then yeah, you can consider mx-s low throw. But if you have a topsheet dominant loop, that is, even when using the sponge you expand it tangentially instead of compressing it inwards, then mx-s feels higher throw. Don't know how to explain this better, but in sure someone must've written down a better explanation somewhere.

I like MX-S a lot more than I thought I would having got
more used to it, been playing it on my DD Terminator, the speed of the blade is
good for the rubber but the hardness of the Koto/ZLC outer layers is perhaps
too much in combination with the hard sponge of MX-S. I am going to try it on my Spin Offensive 3 today as maybe the softer spruce
on the SO3 plus its bouncy nature from the thick Kiri core will harmonise
better with MX-S.

One thing is for sure, even having used MX-P and T05 for
years, the spin on MX-S when you catch it right on a medium speed brush loop is
the highest from any rubber I have ever used, other than maybe Hurricane 3 when
new. I have also not seen so many of my pushes dumped in the net as you can add
spin to the push with your wrist without fear of engaging the sponge and
sending it long. For all out attackers wanting to loop every ball MX-P and T05 are surely better, but if
you play a more strategic game and want something reliable to get over the line
when you are 10-10 in the fifth, MX-S is the one.

Experience playing with MX-S Black Max on Double Day Terminator ZLC side:

I have found with MX-S that I can win with consistency
rather than power. At first, I tried to play with it like I would all the other
German tensors and power loop anything off the table, result was 50% on the
table without sufficient speed (I don't use straight arm and not enough use of
body), 50% straight into the net. This is the experience I read from most
posters testing MX-S and like them I thought this isn't for me.

This week I used it in my league matches, after losing a
game against an average opponent my team mate (who is 19 and a very high level
player having been coached at National level as a Junior) said to me to stop
trying to overpower my opponent with loops and smashes and simply get the ball
on table, but vary the spin and placement to keep him moving and having to play
different shots to counter the spin. So I stopped trying to power loop and
concentrated on well placed blocks low over net, heavy pushes to his backhand,
chops with OX LP from distance, rolls with OX LP close to the table, then the
odd slower spinny brush loop when I got the perfect ball to execute it
(unreturnable spin with MX-S IMHO).

This strategy actually used far less effort on my part than
trying to smack him off the table, as I usually would with MX-P, and I think
without realising it I probably lost as many points as I gained trying to do
that with MX-P because of hitting the odd one long off the table, blocking long
off their heavy spin loops, putting too much wrist into a push and sending it
long etc. I thought I loved the feeling of smacking a loop or a smash past
someone so much that I wouldn't give it up just because a rubber won't support
those shots at sufficient speed or consistency to have a high success rate (MX-S will but not without proper use of your body or a strong arm - neither of which I manage to achieve in a fast rally),
however winning games can actually be just as addictive.

Another shot I can play with MX-S that I couldn't with the standard bouncy tensors is a sidespin loop on a mid table ball into the corners just behind the net on the opponent's side. I have found this is a better approach to balls I used to come in and try and smash or flick, you can keep it short on their side and so wide they either can't get to it or if they fish it back you can hit it to the other side of the table for a winner while they are out of position.

I found that the more I brought the ball back on table time
after time, the more frustrated the opponent got and in the end they would
overstretch on a shot trying to hit it harder/spinnier to get it past me and
hit it long or in the net. The other thing to consider is that at the level I
am playing at if I play a fast game on the FH with hard looping, it plays into
the opponent's hands as that is how everyone else in the league plays. They are
used to dealing with spin and speed and can simply counter into corners when I
am out of position and trying to recover from hitting a hard loop. This slower
more considered strategy allows me to be in the ready position at all times so
with my slower footwork I can still get to the ball no
matter where they put it.

Clearly I have a particular style, with OX LP backhand I can
play disturbing off serves and pushes and modern defence from distance, so the
characteristics of MX-S may not suit everyone. But if you are willing to dial
down the shot power and play more strategically with variation in shot
selection, spin and placement, I can't think of a better rubber to support that
game. I absolutely agree with NextLevel (who has used it more than most so the most weight must go to his opinions on MX-S) that if you stick at it and practice long enough with MX-S, you can play with it like a spin enhanced version of Karis. Just get everything back on the table and when the opportunity presents itself and you are in perfect position to execute a spinny loop or drive with full use of your body, hit a winner. As I said earlier above, if you catch that sucker right, the spin is insane.

Great post. Whether you stick with the rubber long term or not you clearly get what the rubber is built to do. If you are trying to power loop the ball past people using European strokes there are far better rubbers. But if you want to serve heavy, push heavy, flat hit or block safely and sometimes play with heavy SPIN, I can't think of an Euro rubber that supports that variation other than Omega V Asia.

My opinion of MX-S was it's super easy to counter and block/punch but super hard to open up with a modern looping game, good rubber with a lot of spin but low throw and not a lot of all out attackers would find it versatile enough on the fh

My opinion of MX-S was it's super easy to counter and block/punch but super hard to open up with a modern looping game, good rubber with a lot of spin but low throw and not a lot of all out attackers would find it versatile enough on the fh

Now that depends on which blade you pair it with, found it tough to open up when paired with stiff, low throw blade which requires you to brush the ball up. Most mid-flexy blades like bty alc blades or flexy 5 plies like tibhar stratus pw, bty korbel etc go really well with mx-s, basically you need to go through the ball while playing a topspin stroke with this rubber and hence pairing it with a flex blade kinda makes you swing forward. Many top players that have clean strokes love the mx-s since it is really linear and rewards good timing.

My opinion of MX-S was it's super easy to counter and block/punch but super hard to open up with a modern looping game, good rubber with a lot of spin but low throw and not a lot of all out attackers would find it versatile enough on the fh

If you say so. The strength of the rubber is opening up, the throw is about how you approach the ball and it seems you think you are supposed to loop a certain way to get a certain throw. I don't know anything that can create as much versatility in the arcs, you pretty much determine the trajectory you want. Of Course If You Want To Hit The Ball The Way You Hit Tenergy TheN You May Not Like It.

It's not a rocket launcher but neither is Hurricane 3, it always comes back to what you are trying to do and how you win points.

Amen, I currently use MX-S on my Tibhar Cedric Nuytinck blade in 2.1. And I play a semi-modern defender style so I'm curious of their differences. I wonder if a thinner sponge would allow me to attack and chop easier.

How does this rubber hold up in humid conditions compared with T 05? This is an area where it rains several times per week and so it can be very unpredictable playing. Last weekend was such a day where the humidity was so high that I went through all three of my shirts within a couple of hours and had to play later matches in a completely drenched shirt and with sweat running down my arms. Ended up losing the tournament to a guy nearly 300 points lower whose style I know well and have won about 90% of our previous matches. Also nearly lost to a flat hittting smasher about 800 pts lower that day who upset another guy roughly 700-800 pts higher. Loops are about impossible under those conditions and just die into the bottom of the net or just short of it while blocks often hit the paddle and fell off about an inch away. I might've played that day better with a slick premade.

Does the 2.1 feels noticably softer than the 1.9? And does the 2.1 really has more power and spin?

I haven’t used both for MX-S, just the 1.9, so take my comments with a grain of salt. But generally, thinner sponge lets you feel the wood/blade a bit more. It shouldn’t feel softer. As for spin, afaik it mostly depends on how hard you and your opp counter loop. Thing about Mx-S is that it’s hard enough for 1.9 to be more than enough sponge for most players. (See Nextlevel’s videos and comments.)

Also, at least in theory, the advantage of max sponge on loop at a given hardness should be greater on rubbers that favor a thicker contact on loops than for rubbers that favor brushing (like MX-S). From what I understand, the less we engage the sponge on loops, the lower the returns from an extra .2mm of sponge.

That said, from the very linear behavior on 1.9 I would be surprised if there were big downsides to max sponge. That is, except for weight, and most likely a bit less blade feel.

I think people should take a look at the Dynamic Friction upgrade versions of OVA and OVT. I am still testing OVA and will report back in a month but the DF version was an upgrade on the original that I didn't know about but which I think makes it significantly grippier which was exactly what one reviewer was requesting...

I like MX-S a lot more than I thought I would having got
more used to it, been playing it on my DD Terminator, the speed of the blade is
good for the rubber but the hardness of the Koto/ZLC outer layers is perhaps
too much in combination with the hard sponge of MX-S. I am going to try it on my Spin Offensive 3 today as maybe the softer spruce
on the SO3 plus its bouncy nature from the thick Kiri core will harmonise
better with MX-S.

One thing is for sure, even having used MX-P and T05 for
years, the spin on MX-S when you catch it right on a medium speed brush loop is
the highest from any rubber I have ever used, other than maybe Hurricane 3 when
new. I have also not seen so many of my pushes dumped in the net as you can add
spin to the push with your wrist without fear of engaging the sponge and
sending it long. For all out attackers wanting to loop every ball MX-P and T05 are surely better, but if
you play a more strategic game and want something reliable to get over the line
when you are 10-10 in the fifth, MX-S is the one.

Experience playing with MX-S Black Max on Double Day Terminator ZLC side:

I have found with MX-S that I can win with consistency
rather than power. At first, I tried to play with it like I would all the other
German tensors and power loop anything off the table, result was 50% on the
table without sufficient speed (I don't use straight arm and not enough use of
body), 50% straight into the net. This is the experience I read from most
posters testing MX-S and like them I thought this isn't for me.

This week I used it in my league matches, after losing a
game against an average opponent my team mate (who is 19 and a very high level
player having been coached at National level as a Junior) said to me to stop
trying to overpower my opponent with loops and smashes and simply get the ball
on table, but vary the spin and placement to keep him moving and having to play
different shots to counter the spin. So I stopped trying to power loop and
concentrated on well placed blocks low over net, heavy pushes to his backhand,
chops with OX LP from distance, rolls with OX LP close to the table, then the
odd slower spinny brush loop when I got the perfect ball to execute it
(unreturnable spin with MX-S IMHO).

This strategy actually used far less effort on my part than
trying to smack him off the table, as I usually would with MX-P, and I think
without realising it I probably lost as many points as I gained trying to do
that with MX-P because of hitting the odd one long off the table, blocking long
off their heavy spin loops, putting too much wrist into a push and sending it
long etc. I thought I loved the feeling of smacking a loop or a smash past
someone so much that I wouldn't give it up just because a rubber won't support
those shots at sufficient speed or consistency to have a high success rate (MX-S will but not without proper use of your body or a strong arm - neither of which I manage to achieve in a fast rally),
however winning games can actually be just as addictive.

Another shot I can play with MX-S that I couldn't with the standard bouncy tensors is a sidespin loop on a mid table ball into the corners just behind the net on the opponent's side. I have found this is a better approach to balls I used to come in and try and smash or flick, you can keep it short on their side and so wide they either can't get to it or if they fish it back you can hit it to the other side of the table for a winner while they are out of position.

I found that the more I brought the ball back on table time
after time, the more frustrated the opponent got and in the end they would
overstretch on a shot trying to hit it harder/spinnier to get it past me and
hit it long or in the net. The other thing to consider is that at the level I
am playing at if I play a fast game on the FH with hard looping, it plays into
the opponent's hands as that is how everyone else in the league plays. They are
used to dealing with spin and speed and can simply counter into corners when I
am out of position and trying to recover from hitting a hard loop. This slower
more considered strategy allows me to be in the ready position at all times so
with my slower footwork I can still get to the ball no
matter where they put it.

Clearly I have a particular style, with OX LP backhand I can
play disturbing off serves and pushes and modern defence from distance, so the
characteristics of MX-S may not suit everyone. But if you are willing to dial
down the shot power and play more strategically with variation in shot
selection, spin and placement, I can't think of a better rubber to support that
game. I absolutely agree with NextLevel (who has used it more than most so the most weight must go to his opinions on MX-S) that if you stick at it and practice long enough with MX-S, you can play with it like a spin enhanced version of Karis. Just get everything back on the table and when the opportunity presents itself and you are in perfect position to execute a spinny loop or drive with full use of your body, hit a winner. As I said earlier above, if you catch that sucker right, the spin is insane.

My game is somewhat, like what you've described above... I play close to the table, and don't play very many power-shots, relying mostly on angles, placements, high spin.

Recently, due to several issues, with my elbow, shoulders, knees, and general stiffness, I've decided to switch to a LP on my BH, and have got myself a Defplay Senso V3 blade. My arms move a lot faster, than my legs. I've got myself Pogo LP, which I hear is decent for a LP beginner.

For the FH, I've got the Xiom Vega Europe (max), but I find it bouncy. My forehand top-spins/loops are rather Spinny, with Medium pace..

Do you think the MX-S (1.9mm) would suite my play, or shall I retain the XVE (max), or drop the XVE from MAX to 1.8-2.0mm ?

MX-S in 1.9mm will suit this style of play, I personally really dislike softer bouncy rubbers and don't find them forgiving at all, but then I don't tend to loop through the sponge that much so I don't get the best out of them.

MX-S in 1.9mm will suit this style of play, I personally really dislike softer bouncy rubbers and don't find them forgiving at all, but then I don't tend to loop through the sponge that much so I don't get the best out of them.

I hope it's nothing like the DHS Hurriance Neo 3... I've played with it on my FH, and I'm not sure if it suits me... It requires text-book technique, and too much effort, to effectively put it to use. The contact on my top-spins/loops is a lot fuller, and lacking in brush.

Also, I almost always passive-block (simply having the racquet in the right place, the right time), at times, by simply stretching-out my arms.

MX-S is not dead in the way chinese rubbers are, it is still a tensor rubber and has a kick to it. It just takes much more impact force to get the same kick out of it as say MX-P, but if you smack it on a flat hit then it reaches a similar top end speed. The main differences with MX-P are in the short game where MX-S allows you to use much more wrist on pushes without sending the ball long (so you get much heavier spin), and when looping you need to force the ball more with good use of the legs/body (or if you are built like NextLevel just your arms might be enough with good arm speed) to get the speed, the spin is there regardless as it grips the plastic ball like crazy. MX-P on the other hand allows you to just brush using the topsheet even with a flailing arm when you are late to the ball and you get speed and a fair amount of spin. The key to using MX-S successfully is to make sure you are planted when you play the shot, then you get a result that in my view is squarely in the middle of what you get with MX-P and H3N in terms of spin and speed. It's the most linear rubber I have used with this much spin and speed and it has almost unlimited gears. If MX-P is too fast for you and H3N too slow and too demanding, but you like rubbers in that hardness range and you favour spin, placement and tactical play over raw power and forgiveness when late to the ball (MX-P and T05 are incredible at producing quality shots when late to the ball due to the kick from the sponge and consistent grip and throw from the topsheet) then MX-S is worth a try. This is all really nothing that hasn't been said before in this thread.

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