By the way, Fred, you mentioned "two practitioners, each with two swords of different lengths" up above. I can't say I've ever practiced with Saotome sensei wherein both practioners wielded two swords each...

The best memory I've had in two sword is being one of five uke armed with bokuto (one each) in randori trying to cut Saotome sensei who had his two swords. I think all of us uke were "killed" at least a few times each...

-- Jun

Jun --

What I've seen and worked of this material was bits and pieces at seminars and dojo visits, for the most part prior to a "standard" form being set down on an instructional tape. My memory may be going, but I could swear that at least a few times, the "single sword" partner drew the shoto.

The place I'm sure I've seen two and two wasn't really even forms per se, but simply working through the kamae while facing someone else doing the same thing. Put that together with an overactive imagination and unclear wording and you've got the quote you busted me on.

While I've seen the full original of the Chicaog Aikikai tape, chunks of which are included in the ATM two-sword tape, I must confess that I have not been a good consumer and purchased, or seen the entirety of the ATM tape John is asking about.

With the other weapons tapes Saotome Sensei has done, while they're great references, there are a great many variations that have been taught but aren't on tape, and I suspect the same is true with the two-sword material.

Bottom line, what I would say to anybody who wants to work this material is that there is a short list of folks who know it really well, although they aren't really well-known. Per your other remarks, that has the makings of an great -- and affordable -- seminar for a small dojo with a group of serious practitioners. Feel it from someone who knows it, then use the tape as a reference for practice until you can get them back again.