(And I won't even mention the EU forcing the Dutch to change the law so non-commercial marina's have to start charging 21% VAT as well )

I think it was good to post it here anyway, more fuel fire the Brexit fire.

Although based on comments from the British media of the "safety mentality" of the British authorities, I would not be surprised if you are already forced to where the dayglow jackets, hard hats and other items of safetygear in marina yards in the UK

Latest news on the EU-Refugee crisis.. EU (Merkel/Hollande) are paying Turkey 6billion euro's for an illegal 1 for 1 exchange deal and visa free travel to the Schengan area for 74million Turks.
Strange how one year ago they could not help Greece, Spain and Portugal.. yet now they are flush with money to throw down the toilet..
Methinks its the straw that will break the 2 humped camels back..

It presents a very one sided argument, but there are a lot of facts about how the EU is run (which I assume are accurate) that makes me think its time for a few countries to make an exit.

A lot of bul. The truth is much simpler: the majority of the union want to make steps towards a Political federal EU with an elected president and an effective government, some countries see the EU as a simple Economic trade union and want to maintain full sovereignty.

Two different and opposed realities. It is time to clear the waters and to the ones that don't want to give the steps to a federal state to go out allowing the others to pursue their federal will.

I hope UK votes out, it will make things a lot easier and anyway they will be begging in 10 or 15 years. Of course I can be wrong about that but we will only have to wait and see.

I think it is correct to say the EU is run by red tape suckers and also in a very poor way. Any sailor can see this, I think.

BUT is exiting the best way to fix this? I doubt. Is divorce the best way to save an ailing marriage?

I think if we call it a day, then we will return to a less friendly, and soon warring, Europe. Think of the Balkan states. Think of Ukrania, Poland and Hungary, and Austria and Greece - with their vastly popular nazi movements. History repeats itself. Is this what we really want?

We well lose as sailors. There will be more barriers again. We will also lose as people.

I do not believe Britain will be better off when surrounded by angry and fighting nations. Some Brits assume the EU will last after their exit, but this is just one scenario. The other scenario is Germans will just turn off the lights and let everybody fend for themselves.

IMHO, we would all be better off if the EU got fixed up rather than split apart.

The land will be inherited by the tame. The ocean will be inherited by the brave. That Swedish lady and me, we will be gone, sailing.

... Some Brits assume the EU will last after their exit, but this is just one scenario. The other scenario is Germans will just turn off the lights and let everybody fend for themselves.

IMHO, we would all be better off if the EU got fixed up rather than split apart.

The land will be inherited by the tame. The ocean will be inherited by the brave. That Swedish lady and me, we will be gone, sailing.

b.

You seem to assume that the Germans are losing money on the EU. Quite the contrary, they pay with one hand and with another they sell trains, cars, military equipment and lot's of industrial products. In the end they are winning and regarding that you can compare UK and German wealth indicators.

I think it is correct to say the EU is run by red tape suckers and also in a very poor way. Any sailor can see this, I think.

BUT is exiting the best way to fix this? I doubt. Is divorce the best way to save an ailing marriage?

I think if we call it a day, then we will return to a less friendly, and soon warring, Europe. Think of the Balkan states. Think of Ukrania, Poland and Hungary, and Austria and Greece - with their vastly popular nazi movements. History repeats itself. Is this what we really want?

How do you get to warring and Nazi's from an Brexit?

I can't see the EU ever being able to fix itself properly. The bureaucrats, MEP and the like will continue lining their pockets, implementing stupid rules & regulations and Governments like that of France will continue protecting the stupidity of the CAP & Strasbourg and all of the other excesses.

The use of the Euro in the poorer countries will ensue that they remain poor and never have a chance of catching up.

If the Brexit does occur, the UK will probably not be the last to leave the EU, especially if Merkel tries to force some eastern european countries to help clean up the mess that she and the Swedes created by giving the refugees such an attractive carrot.

You seem to assume that the Germans are losing money on the EU. Quite the contrary, they pay with one hand and with another they sell trains, cars, military equipment and lot's of industrial products. In the end they are winning and regarding that you can compare UK and German wealth indicators.

I do not think they are losing money on EU. Germany is the biggest exporter I think. Germany is all about exports. If the EU is kaput, German economy will sink beyond measure.

However, Germany is a major contributor (or one of few major contributors). Should they opt to behave like the Brits, this would be effectively the end of the Union.

Remember how Germany acted during Grexit crisis. Germans are very good politicians and do know how to protect their country from risks.

I can't see the EU ever being able to fix itself properly. The bureaucrats, MEP and the like will continue lining their pockets, implementing stupid rules & regulations and Governments like that of France will continue protecting the stupidity of the CAP & Strasbourg and all of the other excesses.

The use of the Euro in the poorer countries will ensue that they remain poor and never have a chance of catching up.

If the Brexit does occur, the UK will probably not be the last to leave the EU, especially if Merkel tries to force some eastern european countries to help clean up the mess that she and the Swedes created by giving the refugees such an attractive carrot.

Hoppy,

This was my line of thinking:
- assuming Brexit,
- the EU weaker (?),
- the idea of common Europe weaker (I believe it already is),
- the EU falls apart (?),
- extreme right fractions take over (in even more countries),
- we get more conflicts in the Balkans and Slavic regions.

Why I link this to nazi is because there seems to be a frightening rise of pro-right sentiments in many countries, not balanced by any evident counter-action by common citizens and their governments. One person standing proud is a statement, I wonder why others stood quiet, watched, did nothing. This attitude of the indifferent crowd rings a bell.

Nazis are allowed to sit in the parliaments from Greece thru Austria, Hungary, Poland. I guess maybe even in Sweden, if I were to judge from how openly they march in those pictures, protected by publicly funded police ...

I am not frightened. I have the mentality of a domesticated piranha. But I am apprehensive. I grew up in that part of Europe where brown shirts and raised hands are more than just visions from another war, fought in another country.

What does this have to do with sailing? I think sailing needs freedom and freedom needs peace. I do not see nazis marching in broad daylight and protected by state police while the crowds stand still and indifferent as a good prognostics of freedom and peace.

....
Why I link this to nazi is because there seems to be a frightening rise of pro-right sentiments in many countries, not balanced by any evident counter-action by common citizens and their governments. One person standing proud is a statement, I wonder why others stood quiet, watched, did nothing. This attitude of the indifferent crowd rings a bell.

Nazis are allowed to sit in the parliaments from Greece thru Austria, Hungary, Poland. I guess maybe even in Sweden, if I were to judge from how openly they march in those pictures, protected by publicly funded police ...
.....
b.

It is not right to call European political extreme right Nazis. In fact for Europe they are extreme right but if we consider the American panorama they are just right, not even extreme. Many political solutions they propose are similar to the ones proposed by Donald Trump and he represents American Republicans.

I don't like European extreme right ideas or proposals but as you say on several countries they represent a significative part of the population.

Nazis come to power with democracy but finished with it. Extreme right European parties are democratic parties at least the ones that have representativity.

Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...

Posts: 1,314

Re: In or out of the EU, how will it effect the boating community.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polux

You seem to assume that the Germans are losing money on the EU. Quite the contrary, they pay with one hand and with another they sell trains, cars, military equipment and lot's of industrial products. In the end they are winning and regarding that you can compare UK and German wealth indicators.

The German people are not winning. I see it every day I go to Germany, like today. Standards of living are slipping. Indeed, they pay with one hand and then get orders for all kinds of stuff in return. That is another way of saying that the rest of Europe gets trains, machines and industrial products for free, products that German workers who see their standard of living drop are producing.
How long do you think they will take that?