What is a human being? What is life? Can science give us reliable answers to such questions? The electricity of life. The meaning of human consciousness. Are we alone? Are the traditional contests between science and religion still relevant? Does the word "spirit" still hold meaning today?

I hate to be the one to put a damper on this interesting and somewhat harmless thread, but we have asked folk even on this part of the forum to discuss topics which in some way are related to EU.

Rest assured, if it contained any amount of self-promotion, delusions of grandeur or propheteering it would have been culled well before now, as one or two have already found out... but no doubt someone down the track will point to this thread and say "but that one was off-topic and you did nothing about it".

So whilst I'm not in the deleting mood and the thread contains nothing out of order per se, I think we would be better served putting our efforts into constructive discussion of EU themes.

I don't want to be a killjoy but we do need to encourage some sort of consistency.

I posted the elephant video with great trepidation. I asked Michael G if he thought it would be okay. He said no, but post it anyway. Sharing it with friends was more important than knowing it has nothing to do with EU. The reaction helped me appreciate this community more than i already did. The concern for the elephants was appropriate. The awe and appreciation for the talent and intelligence was appropriate. The reference to beloved dogs and cats says as much as you can say about a human.I've wanted to have a gathering of EU people for many years. There were visions of people holding hands and singing cum bay ah. This is no longer my vision. Now the vision is more like a brawl. But after the brawl was finished, the blood would be wiped away, apologises would be offered and ideas would be discussed. Were all lucky to have arrived here. It's like the people in "Close Encounters" trying to get to the mountain of mashed potatoes. Curiosity for certain people is irresistible. Thank you Dr V. Thanks David, And Wal, and all the rest. michael steinbacher

I Ching #49 The ImageFire in the lake: the image of REVOLUTIONThus the superior manSets the calender in orderAnd makes the seasons clear

How else would mammals survive without emotions? Fear makes you run away, anger makes you attack, love makes you take care of the baby or social groups...

I was under the impression that it was the thinking part that made us different...

(oops sorry bye)

Not sure how to keep this EU but I would like to say that fight or flight is hard wired in everyone (sympathetic nervous system) and caring for young would be instinct in animals. Emotions as discussed are Higher brain functions (forebrain) and not brainstem and limbic system functions like sympathetic response although they do play a role. As far as the proper semantics and a good terminology, a proper division of anatomy would be helpful and essential to any meaningful discussion. Different regions of the brain, forebrain, hindbrain, limbic system, brainstem, etc need to be clear when talking about such things as emotions and higher brain thinking and not as blanket statments about animals in general. Ovbiously elephant brain anatomy is most important. Then relevant issues and semantics and brain region functions become more clear and less like blanket statements and maybe one could draw some scientific conclusions.

If you only knew the magnificence of the 3, 6 and 9, then you would have a key to the universe.— Nikola TeslaCasting Out the Nines from PHI into Indigs reveals the Cosmic Harmonic Code.— Junglelord.Knowledge is Structured in Consciouness. Structure and Function Cannot Be Seperated.— Junglelord

There appears to be a type of interspecies warfare between elephants and humans taking place in parts of Africa and Asia.

I guess it should be no surprise to us that such highly intelligent animals would behave with the same kinds of rage that we humans show when our backs are up against the wall.

It seems that elephants don't take too kindly to what they perceive as human attempts to make them extinct. They don't intend to go down without a fight; and they are too large in size for humans to ignore.

starbiter wrote:I posted the elephant video with great trepidation. I asked Michael G if he thought it would be okay. He said no, but post it anyway. Sharing it with friends was more important than knowing it has nothing to do with EU. The reaction helped me appreciate this community more than i already did. The concern for the elephants was appropriate. The awe and appreciation for the talent and intelligence was appropriate.

Your somewhat bold act in posting the video is controversial in the sense that :

1) Michael G had advised against it2) DaveSmith has justifiably questioned your post in relation to the stated purpose and conditions of Thunderbolts Forum.

Yet generally, members responded enthuastically to your post, and like you say it helped consolidate community spirit for you (and me too). However I, like others, commit to following community rules and refrain from posting unrelted issues of perceived "higher importance".....in this I relinquish certain freedoms You have ultimately chosen to exercise your freedom .

But poor Dave and Michael responded in the ONLY way they could within the stated confines of Thunderbolts Forums....this is their DUTY. We have to ultimately respect their NEED to take the stances that they do.

It seems to be that there is a direct relationship between how highly evolved mammals and humans react to stress and trauma. Could it be that both humans and elephants depend upon the healthy maintenance of complex social networks for survival? If we destroy our social networks, then the young will no longer have adults who can teach them the optimal social skills necessary for survival.

It comes back again to the fundamental question of whether we believe there is an inherent “value system” that we all need to understand if we want to thrive (surviving is only coping). It really is about the “Golden Rule.” It has nothing to do with “sacrificing” the individual for the “good of the group” (“group think” is as deadly as the “glorification of the individual”).

I am certainly not going to punch you in the nose if I think you will do the same to me. Am I behaving in a self-serving or in a generous manner? Do I care as long as my nose is not bloodied?