Greek Elections: Official Final Results

The Coalition of the Radical Left (SYRIZA) has won its second parliamentary elections in eight months having garnered 35.47 percent of the Greek vote and 145 parliament seats on Sunday. The New Democracy conservatives came in second with 28.09 percent of the vote and 75 seats.

The extreme-right Golden Dawn is Greece’s third political power with 6.99 percent and 19 seats. The center-left PASOK-DIMAR alliance received 6.28 percent and 17 seats, with the Greek Communist Party (KKE) following at 5.55 percent and 15 seats.

Center-leftist To Potami is next with 4.09 percent and 11 seats, Independent Greeks (ANEL) get 3,69 percent and 10 seats. The Centrists Union follows at 3.43 percent and 9 seats.

Unprecetended Abstention

With 99.44 percent of the votes counted, 43.55% of Greeks who were eligible to vote did not go to the polls on Sunday. In real numbers this means that out of 9,836,997 Greeks who could cast their ballot, approximately only 5,562,820 people voted. This is the highest abstention rate in the history of Greek parliamentary elections following the fall of the dictatorship in 1974.

abstention is also high because of the brain drain and all the Greeks who live in other countries who can’t vote

most importantly:

At 6.99% GoldenDawn is back to Jun12 level but with 46.447 votes LESS than Jun12 and 8.809 votes LESS than in Jan 2015. A higher vote % wise because of the abstention, whereas their rabies infected voters always turn out to vote, but the others did not. In a real election, and one can’t blame the domestic abstention caused by apathy, they would have under 4%

First off, let us take note of the fact that the lower turnout was due primarily to the fact that pretty much all the parties outside of Golden Dawn (which by the way the media effectively excluded from the public view) had nothing of substance to offer the Greek people and could only offer assertions that the other parties sucked more their own. And in such a climate where all the parties that the media offered were virtually indistinguishable and offered nothing but resumptions of the old bad deals, who can blame the Greek people for opting out? I know that if Golden Dawn didn’t exist, I would be just as well served rolling dice to determine which party to vote for as they all offer the same brand of lies.

Your insults to the Golden Dawn voters are also pretty laughable. Has it occurred to you that the people who show support for the Popular Association are regular Greeks who are simply sick of the old corruption that has plagued the nation for decades? And the drop in voting rates effects all parties equally so there is no factual basis for your claim that they would have had a lower percentage.

As for the trial, the facts remain that it is a targeted persecution ordered by New Democracy, that one of the three judges didn’t even want to proceed with the trial due to what he claimed was a lack of sufficient evidence to constitute Golden Dawn as a criminal organization, and they cowardly refused to even allow the proceedings to be televised. So you may in fact be waiting a while for Golden Dawn to be heading to prison. I wouldn’t be holding my breath for that outcome.

“which by the way the media effectively excluded from the public view” untrue they had plenty of air time this time around

and yes I mentioned one can’t blame people for being apathetic

yes some of the Golden Dawn voters are people that are sick of the old and others are nazi to the bone and have forgotten their history and praise the 3rd Reich for causing more damage to Greece in 4 years than the Ottoman Empire did in 400 years NOT TO MENTION that the smyrna disaster and the genocide of Greeks and Armenians was at the direction and engineered by Germany

Yes there is a factual basis because the far right elements, like in many other countries, always come out to vote regardless. And despite this, the number of golden dawn voters has dropped from 440,000 in 2012 to 380,000 just this past weekend

No they really did not. They got the same single 5 minute slot like last time and once again, the media only did that because they were legally required to do so. No channel was giving Golden Dawn screen time unless it was to slander them. And of course there was the whole incident where they weren’t even allowed in the debate even though they were (and still are) the 3rd most popular party.

“yes some of the Golden Dawn voters are people that are sick of the old and others are nazi to the bone and have forgotten their history and praise the 3rd Reich for causing more damage to Greece in 4 years than the Ottoman Empire did in 400 years NOT TO MENTION that the smyrna disaster and the genocide of Greeks and Armenians was at the direction and engineered by Germany”

You do realize that, among other things, Golden Dawn intends to claim the occupation loan from the Germans, right? Does that sound like praise to you? And your claim that they engineered the genocide of Armenians and Greeks is absurd and has no factual basis. Yes they were aware of it and admittedly did nothing to stop it which is of course reprehensible. But it is a far cry from actually ordering a mass extermination.

“Yes there is a factual basis because the far right elements, like in many other countries, always come out to vote regardless. And despite this, the number of golden dawn voters has dropped from 440,000 in 2012 to 380,000 just this past weekend”

No doubt there are a number of GD supporters who are more dedicated and more inclined to vote (I consider myself to be part of this group). But again, the majority are still regular Greeks who were just as affected as the voters of other parties by this climate of despair.

they were given plenty of airtime this time around. this is a fact other than your debate point. every single news stations featured them several times a day. were you or have you been in Greece this summer to see for yourself?

Google “Germany, Greece and the New World Order” regarding Germany actually ordering the genocide. German engineering of the genocidal policies against the Anatolian Greeks was widely recognized. Germany has been an enemy of Greece forever and yet Golden Dawn, despite some halfheartedly complaining about a war loan, does have roots going back to all the Reichs and especially to the 3rd Reich. This is not even up for debate. There is plenty of evidence and actual quotes from kasidiaris and michaloliakos and many more praising Hitler and the SS

i wouldn’t go so far as to say the majority but certainly some of their dwindling support does fit into that category

Sure they had a 20-30 second quote from Kasidiaris or something occasionally but they never really featured them unless it was to slander. I am not in Greece currently but I do have Greek language channels with many of the news stations and I know that Golden Dawn didn’t get nearly the air time other parties with far less support got.

“Google “Germany, Greece and the New World Order” regarding Germany actually ordering the genocide. German engineering of the genocidal policies against the Anatolian Greeks was widely recognized.”

I concede to you that I did not know their role was that large and I thank yo for informing me of that. But that article does still overemphasize the role the Germans played and the writers bias was very apparent.

“Germany has been an enemy of Greece forever and yet Golden Dawn, despite some halfheartedly complaining about a war loan, does have roots going back to all the Reichs and especially to the 3rd Reich. This is not even up for debate. There is plenty of evidence and actual quotes from kasidiaris and michaloliakos and many more praising Hitler and the SS”

Halfhearted? The claiming of the occupation loan is one of Golden Dawn’s major listed goals. They are certainly more serious about claiming it than Syriza. And do you read what you write? All the Reichs?!!?! Do you understand what that means? You are saying that Golden Dawn, in addition to supposed connections to National Socialist Germany, are now also related to 19th and early 20th century imperial Germany, and even the freaking Holy Roman Empire?

“i wouldn’t go so far as to say the majority but certainly some of their dwindling support does fit into that category”

you didn’t watch the news channels then. they had MUCH more airtime than 20-30 seconds. much much more

The article speaks the truth. dig deeper. Germany and Turkey have been allies forever and certainly both of them against the Greeks from the Balkan Wars to WW1 to Smyrna and even now where the largest non-German population in Germany is Turkish

the only reason some Golden Dawners finally care about the occupation loan is because they view the current German government as a tool of the evil jewish zionist banking conspiracy and think Merkel is a communist. There is no other reason and certainly no reason related to the actual destruction Germany and Golden Dawn’s heroes brought to Greece 70 years ago. This has never been an issue for them before.

Yes all the Reichs. The ancestors of Golden Dawn come from the Greek fascists and hard core royalists from the 1910s onwards not to mention most of them had relatives who were in the security battalions, like mihaloliakos and kasidiaris and many more, who were NAZI collaborators. They have held Greece’s enemy forever in high regard for nearly 100 years.

Buddy I watched the news and I can say for a fact that they weren’t on the air much. A few times to slander Golden Dawn and occasionally a little quote from the previously mentioned Kasidiaris or Michaloliakos. And that is just about it. Yes slightly more then in January but not by much.

The thing with Germany and Turkey was just an example of the complex politics of the WWI era. The central powers needed allies and the Ottomans were not in a strong position themselves. The Turkish population in Germany was just the result of a foolish desire to quickly gain some cheap workers. Little thought was put into it and many Germans are resentful of them.

Golden Dawn has certainly cared about it longer then any other party. Funny enough when Syriza “calculated” the value of the loan, it turned out to be around the total of the Greek debt. Weird, right? Don’t get me wrong, there is for sure a very practical and rational reason for wanting to claim the loan. But it is nonetheless primarily an emotional and righteous motivation for pursuing it.

And when we look at Germany, we don’t see it just as the country of that marxist whore (and yes, she was unquestionably an east German communist) but a country composed of normal and good Germans who happen to live under the rule of a multicultural psycho. The loan though is something that is nonetheless still owed and long overdue.

“Yes all the Reichs. The ancestors of Golden Dawn come from the Greek fascists and hard core royalists from the 1910s onwards”

So rather then back out you double down on the nonsense of the Reichs. You just contradicted yourself in your own sentence with the 2 words “1910 onward.” The Holy Roman empire ended around 1806 (so it is impossible to have any connections to them) and imperial Germany breathed its last breath in the late 1910s (meaning that there would been barely a few years time for us, if even that, to form any sort of connection with them).

And by the way, those “fascists” that you hated and hold in such disregard? Yeah fascists like Ioannis Metaxas were the ones who organized the heroic resistance against the Germans and Italians. Shame how history itself seems to contradict the message you are pushing.

And do tell, who exactly are the heroes of Greece in your eyes? The communists who killed thousands of their own countrymen and started the civil war?

the loan is just one part. what about the reparations and the theft of the gold? Their calculation of 270 bln due includes 10 bln as the forced loan. doing back of the envelope math you have a 1.182 bln loan in USD * (1.03)^70 and that gets you to around 10 billion. the rest of the amount was from destroyed infrastructure, reparations, etc. .03 is the interest, 70 is the number of years the 10 billion figure is accurate

The reason for pushing it is also economic and to show Germany and their people, whom you praise because they are white even though they want to destroy Greece and criticize us nonstop on an individual level, to look in the mirror

ok sorry 2,3, and 4th (current) reich last breath in 1910? you must have missed world war 1 & 2

Metaxas did not defend Greece against the Germans (he was dead) and in fact he disarmed a great deal of Greece who did not agree with him politically, primarily the Venizelists and anyone he deemed to be against him, making Greece as a whole unable to defend herself properly. Most of the people who fought in the Greco Italian War and in the Northern Front and the rest of Greece ended up joining various resistance organizations and helping them from left to right. Compare that to the hard core royalists and the ancestors of Golden Dawn who COLLABORATED WITH THE NAZIS and their leaders like Ioannis Rallis were thrown in prison for treason and left to rot there rightfully so

The heroes of Greece are EDES and EOK and EKKA and the Cretans and the moderate elements of EAM/ELAS and everyone else who did not collaborate vs the nazis unlike the relatives of Nazi Golden Dawn.

The message I am pushing is that it is an embarrassment that Nazi Golden Dawn’s roots stems from Nazi collaborators. You would NEVER praise those who collaborated with the Turks, let alone the actual OTTOMAN empire, but here you and your ilk are doing the exact same thing for the power that has wreaked more damage on Greece ALL TIME – the Germans. HYPOCRITES

And spare me with your black and white version of the Civil War. While the communists were rightfully defeated, both sides and the various foreign powers are to blame for what happened in the events leading up to the Civil War.

Yeah sorry that debt payment just seems way to convenient for anyone to take it seriously. By going into the interest and other little factors you are only showing you are interested in more money and not simply getting back what was taken. This is why I maintain that Golden Dawn is the only party making a legitimate claim.

Do you honestly believe that the average German wishes to see Greece destroyed? Most, in fact, do not. Rather then looking for imaginary enemies, focus instead on who is actually looking to break Greece . Not just the top leaders of Germany but the unelected EU officials. THOSE are the people who would have us destroyed.

“ok sorry 2,3, and 4th (current) reich last breath in 1910? you must have missed world war 1 & 2”

WW1 second reich are still a group we could not have possibly had a connection with. The 1910 date is still wrong (I only used it against you to prove a point). And the 3rd reich of WW2 is an organization we still have no connection to because as I mentioned before, if we go by what you claim are Golden Dawn’s links to the old Greek fascists, I will repeat that those Greek fascists were the ones who fought against the 3rd reich. As for modern Germany (or the “4th reich” as you call them), it is being opposed now by just one party, the one remaining and only true anti austerity party and ironically a party that you claim is collaborating with Germany. I don’t think I need to remind you which one that is.

As for your words on Metaxas, you are once again telling lies to suite your arguments. Yes, Metaxas disarmed dissident factions because, wouldn’t you know it, having potential rebels when you are preparing for an invasion is not ideal. And as the actions of your communist heroes later proved, we can see he was correct in taking such actions. Yes, he was dead by the time of the German invasion and it was unfortunate thing too. While he just gained victory against the Italians and naturally still had the army generally on the northwestern and northern borders, he was also doing what he could to avoid a confrontation with the Germans (a nation which eventually required 2 would be superpowers to bring down). His successor made the mistake of provoking the Axis by letting the British set up their own troops.

The numerous rebel groups you just mentioned were just as often fighting each other as they were the Germans.Sometimes even innocent non affiliated Greeks.

No one here is saying that the German occupation is a good thing. But the communists as well as the politicians that have run the country for the last 40 years (which you are effectively supporting) have done more damage then the Germans ever did. And I am not just talking about the debt. The ones you support have allowed the Turks to recolonize parts of our home without so much as a condemnation. Your politicians have allowed secessionist Turks in northern Greece to trumpet their ideals without even the slightest objection. And now they even seek a mosque in Athens, a physical manifestation of the religion of our old enemies. Before you go off accusing the Golden Dawn of being friends with an enemy, perhaps consider making sure that your own house is in order.

Lastly, all wars (especially civil wars) are never simple things. And no doubt about the fact that nations like the UK played their part in making a complex situation even more messy. I won’t even deny that the communists had their own share of tragedies to deal with. But you are deluding yourself if you believe that the communists do not share a majority of the blame. They started the bloodshed long before the Germans evacuated from Greece.

“Do you honestly believe that the average German wishes to see Greece destroyed?” judging by the rhetoric of lazy welfare leeching Greeks – yes i really do. and they are the ones who elect their leaders as well

“WW1 second reich are still a group we could not have possibly had a connection with” the anti-venizelists wanted to be allied with Germany and the Central Powers……

“he was also doing what he could to avoid a confrontation with the Germans” it was inevitable as was their continuation of the extermination of the Greek race like they did in Smyrna

“have done more damage then the Germans ever did.” 10% of our population dead and a completely decimated country and economy and creating the circumstance that lead to the civil war. nice false hyperbole there

“This is why I maintain that Golden Dawn is the only party making a legitimate claim.” Golden Dawn’s claim is 500 billion. as you were saying………

“I will repeat that those Greek fascists were the ones who fought against the 3rd reich.” THIS IS 100% NOT TRUE AS MUCH AS YOU WANT TO REVISE HISTORY. Golden Dawn’s ancestors were in the security battalions who were the nazi collaborators. The people who fought the 3rd reich ended up joining all the resistance groups I mentioned who you treasonously ALL call communists because they were fighting your beloved nazi heros. read about the political make up of them

“And as the actions of your communist heroes” who are my communist heroes and where did i ever praise any communists. or are you one of those with the “you are either with us or against us” attitude and anyone who doesn’t support nazis is automatically a communist. nice logic there

“we can see he was correct in taking such actions.” venizelists and other non-royalists who were not communists were disarmed. how was he correct in that especially in disarming Crete the island which put up the fiercest resistance to the Germans in all of WW2 and who’s patriotic Venizelists killed both Eam/Elas insurgents as well as collaborators like the ancestors of Golden Dawn?

“by letting the British set up their own troops.” the British were involved in the Greco/italian War as they provided air force and naval support. so Metaxas did in fact let the British in. Another lie by Golden Dawn excusing Hitler’s invasion of Greece and destruction and massacre of over 1000 villages.

no the numerous rebel groups I mentioned were fighting primarily GERMANS. compare that vs Golden Dawn ancestors who were fighting WITH the germans

and again who have I supported? I support none of these current parties. There is a very large contingent of Greeks who don’t support these parties and especially not Nazis

“They started the bloodshed long before the Germans evacuated from Greece.” and so did the nazi collaborators. It is a well known FACT that the far right factions where Golden Dawn come from started the bloodshed before anyone else.

And Greeks haven’t caricatured the Germans at all? Have you seen the drawings and cartoons Greeks have made to ridicule them? And hell, they have even begun extending those characterizations to groups like the Finnish now.

And now we are connected to the anti-Venizelists too right? At this point, dare I ask what group are we NOT connected too in your Alex Jones esque conspiracy theory view of the world?

Lol and you also believe the Third Reich had a goal of exterminating Greeks now? For one thing, you do know that Hitler himself praised us and claimed we were the ones who put up the greatest defense, a defense that was largely put up by a certain previously mentioned fascist leader. And while yes, the Germans certainly committed some heinous acts against the Greek people (though even these were often triggered by the actions of your communist heroes), they did not engage in any systematic mass killing of Greeks. If their goal when taking over Greece was to exterminate us, they certainly did a piss poor job.

“10% of our population dead and a completely decimated country and economy and creating the circumstance that lead to the civil war. nice false hyperbole there”

A large number of the dead came during a winter in which the British had blockaded Greece and cut off supplies. The rest of the dead came from some German actions and even more from communist guerrilla actions. The economy, especially with the forced loan, can admittedly be placed on the Germans and this is indeed something that still must be addressed. But again, the politicians that we have had from the post junta era until now have proven just as capable of annihilating our economy. And we have already been over the civil war. The communists still bare most of the blame and while the Germans did have something of a hand in it if only partially, they were still smaller contributors then even other parties like the British.

This is NOT hyperbole or an exaggeration of any kind. Some of the actions of the Germans, while undeniably bad, pale in comparison to the crap that those you praise as heroes have done. I know you want to scream to the heavens about ze evil Germans but if you simply look at some of the facts, they just cannot compare to what others did in that tumultuous time.

“Third Reich had a goal of exterminating Greeks now” yes see Smyran and WW2

“a defense that was largely put up by a certain previously mentioned fascist leader.” he was dead as mentioned previously. the defense doesn’t stop in 1941 it continued on for 4 years by everyone except the ancestors of Golden Dawn who collaborated with the nazis.

“some heinous acts” the destruction of the entire country is just some?

“”though even these were often triggered by the actions of your communist heroes” how are they my heroes again? you realize there were many non-communist resistance groups, right? compare that to YOUR beloved nazi collaborators . the ONLY actions that triggered the thousands of executions by your beloved Germans were the actual Germans rounding up the men woman and children and killing them in cold blood. NOTHING ELSE. do you blame the massacre of Greeks under ottoman rule on the various resistance and guerrilla groups – no of course not, but because you idolize white nazi germany, it is everyone’s fault except them and you make up pathetic excuses to justify the actions of your precious nazi Germany.

“they did not engage in any systematic mass killing of Greeks” the thousands of massacres and destruction of villages and the death of 10% of the Greek population says otherwise. seriously how blind are you

the Germans burned all the farmland, salted the land, and stole/killed the animals that were providing the cities with plenty of food before this all happened. The LIE of pinning this on a blockade, which happened after Germany annihilated Greece’s agriculture, is just another excuse to defend your idols’ complete decimation of Greece.

“The communists still bare most of the blame” no they don’t the blame goes around equally to include the communists

who do i praise again? The only people I praise are those who fought the Germans to include all the resistance groups I previously mentioned. you are ignorantly blind and most likely german and certainly a nazi sympathizer. german has brought the most damage to Greece, more than anyone else and especially in WW2, than anyone else in Greece’s history.

Source? And if this is true I will not be a hypocrite and will agree that it is stupid. If Golden Dawn really is claiming 500 billion, it will be one of the few times I find myself disagreeing with Golden Dawn.

“THIS IS 100% NOT TRUE AS MUCH AS YOU WANT TO REVISE HISTORY. Golden Dawn’s ancestors were in the security battalions who were the nazi collaborators. The people who fought the 3rd reich ended up joining all the resistance groups I mentioned who you treasonously ALL call communists because they were fighting your beloved nazi heros. read about the political make up of them”

I am not revising history. The initial fights were organized by the 4th of August regime’s armies that they trained. It is that formal fight that I am referring to. THAT IS FACT. And I suppose there is something funny (for both sides mind you) about the fact that the Greek resistance gained much of its training by initially being part of Metaxas’s FASCIST army. I am well aware that they were not 100% communists but the largest group was by far ELAS and though they had allowed some people of varying political faiths, they were undeniably and unquestionably an army predominantly composed of and led by KKE.

“who are my communist heroes and where did i ever praise any communists. or are you one of those with the “you are either with us or against us” attitude and anyone who doesn’t support nazis is automatically a communist. nice logic there”

As I have now pointed out in this and the other article, with the Communists having such a dominant presence in the resistance groups, you cannot praise these rebels while ignoring the commies. In most (though not all) cases, they WERE the resistance. The revisionism and altered history of the Greek resistance groups that you are so devoted to has its origins in the myths and glorification of stories that the Communists (and other predominantly leftist groups) have pushed. And thus, I believe it is better to say that you are not yourself telling lies but rather are regurgitating crap that the Greek left has taught you.

Also, I do find it funny that you accuse me of being someone who generalizes when earlier in this very thread, you called Golden Dawn supporters and I quote “Rabies infected voters.”

“venizelists and other non-royalists who were not communists were disarmed. how was he correct in that especially in disarming Crete the island which put up the fiercest resistance to the Germans in all of WW2 and who’s patriotic Venizelists killed both Eam/Elas insurgents as well as collaborators like the ancestors of Golden Dawn?”

And now you yourself are once again making stuff up. While yes the non communist EOK existed, the communists were once again the largest group and they even eventually renamed themselves to EAM, same as the communists on mainland Greece.

“the British were involved in the Greco/italian War as they provided air force and naval support. so Metaxas did in fact let the British in. Another lie by Golden Dawn excusing Hitler’s invasion of Greece and destruction and massacre of over 1000 villages.”

I wasn’t being clear enough here and admit that is my fault. I was more specifically referring to the air forces. Metaxas did allow British ground troops as he felt that was not provocative to the Axis. He did not, however, allow British air forces as he knew such a thing would appear as a threat to the Axis powers as such things could have flown into its southern belly. It was his successor though that allowed the planes to station in Greece though and thus provoked their invasion. Once again, I do apologize for not being more specific in this particular case earlier.

“no the numerous rebel groups I mentioned were fighting primarily GERMANS. compare that vs Golden Dawn ancestors who were fighting WITH the germans”

Once again, the Communist ELAS (which again was easily the largest group) was openly fighting other rebel groups before the Germans left. For them, the domination of Greece is what they had in mind. The Germans and other rebel groups were simply standing in the way of that. We can argue all day on the specifics but I don’t either of us is going to come out on top.

And since you seem preoccupied with Golden Dawn’s link the security battalions, perhaps I should inform you that Golden Dawn has supporters of varying political backgrounds. Not just disgruntled former ND supporters, but also socialists and, yes, even communists. In my case, my family on both sides was neither with the rebels or the security battalions. They were predominantly moderate to left wing and later on mainly Pasok supporters. I myself, despite my family’s political background, have chosen the one true nationalist option. But what was that you were saying about generalizations earlier?

“and so did the nazi collaborators. It is a well known FACT that the far right factions where Golden Dawn come from started the bloodshed before anyone else.”

I am sorry, right factions also started the conflict now? Right wing factions were the ones who initially made potshots at the Germans and then hid behind innocent Greek villagers? And you stating something is “FACT” does not in fact make it a fact (say that 3 times).

“Keep on revising history though”

You were the one that was lying and I have now pointed that out on quite a few occasions. You are the one who has bought into the communist legends and myths and presented it as fact. And being that I was a member of a mostly left leaning family, I myself was told these same stories growing up. And until I saw the actual facts and history, I also believed them. One of these days, look beyond the bedtime stories your parents whispered to you.

“you yourself claim metaxas as one of your own and as such you are connected to his dictatorship and the rift between the royalists and venizelists”

Indeed he is a hero for all Greeks. And I am not denying any support of him. My very avatar on this account is the symbol of his rule.

“so what if the Greeks characterized your beloved white Germans – Greece was currently destroyed by the Germans to save their banks. how could they not do that?”

Okay, for one thing, you do realize that Greeks are still Caucasians right? Greeks, Germans, and pretty much all Europeans have a common origin. We may be somewhat darker but that is due to our Mediterranean climate. Thus, like it or not, we too are white.

And you may find this hard to believe but I am not in fact a Germanophile. Like any other European nation they have good and bad parts. The only difference is that I do not put the blame of Greece’s problems blindly on their shoulders. If you look at what is really going on, the true perpetrators are the German leadership itself and the leadership of the EU as a whole. Realize who the real culprits are rather then blaming the average German who has done nothing towards you.

To address your point on why Germany invaded, they really did not want to and it ended up disastrously delaying the invasion of the USSR. The presence of the British air force allowed by Metaxas’s successor right at their underbelly was what did it in.

“yes see Smyran and WW2”

What happened in Smyrna was still a predominantly Turkish action with some German involvement as was discussed earlier. WW2 there was no plans AT ALL to wipe out the Greek people. Again, the deaths were caused by reckless and provocative commie forces and a winter food shortage caused by the British blockade. There is zero proof of a deliberate German campaign of extermination against the Greek people. The 10% death rate that you cite is not anywhere close to being the work of an organized genocide.

“he was dead as mentioned previously. the defense doesn’t stop in 1941 it continued on for 4 years by everyone except the ancestors of Golden Dawn who collaborated with the nazis.”

And what, did the soldiers he train spontaneously combust upon his death?

“how are they my heroes again? you realize there were many non-communist resistance groups, right? compare that to YOUR beloved nazi collaborators . the ONLY actions that triggered the thousands of executions by your beloved Germans were the actual Germans rounding up the men woman and children and killing them in cold blood. NOTHING ELSE. do you blame the massacre of Greeks under ottoman rule on the various resistance and guerrilla groups – no of course not, but because you idolize white nazi germany, it is everyone’s fault except them and you make up pathetic excuses to justify the actions of your precious nazi Germany.”

I have already said that what Germany did to innocent people was horrendous. But I have also pointed out the cowardice of the rebels are what provoked the Germans. They acted like they were heroes and let innocents take the fall for them. I did not ever say Germany was without fault nor that they did not do anything wrong. But I am pointing out that many others had a hand in the atrocities, ones that your are deliberately giving a pass.

And do not even try to compare the the Greek war of Independence to the acts of the rebels. The war against the Ottomans was an open conflict in which territories were actually fully liberated and the Turks were fought head on. Those Greek revolutionaries actually fought as an army and did not hide behind innocent villages when the enemy came back to bite.

“the thousands of massacres and destruction of villages and the death of 10% of the Greek population says otherwise. seriously how blind are you

the Germans burned all the farmland, salted the land, and stole/killed the animals that were providing the cities with plenty of food before this all happened. The LIE of pinning this on a blockade, which happened after Germany annihilated Greece’s agriculture, is just another excuse to defend your idols’ complete decimation of Greece.”

At this point, you are just spouting the same things that have already been explained. And no, the blockade is without a doubt what caused the mass starvation.

“who do i praise again? The only people I praise are those who fought the Germans to include all the resistance groups I previously mentioned. you are ignorantly blind and most likely german and certainly a nazi sympathizer. german has brought the most damage to Greece, more than anyone else and especially in WW2, than anyone else in Greece’s history.”

All the resistance groups? So without a doubt then you also support the Communist cowards. Germany has done more damage then the thousands of years of dominance by the Romans, the 400 years of the Turks, and the 40 years and counting of the corrupt parties which you are effectively supporting? That is rich.

But most importantly, I am not a German nor am I a Nazi, I am proudly and openly a son of Hellas and an unrepentant nationalist.

The war didn’t end at the end of the Greco Italian War. and yes given Greece’s historical mandatory military service, it would go without saying that everyone was in his military. That would have been the case with any leader (sorry dictator) The resistance groups were comprised primarily of civilians and non-royalists.

Most of ELAS during WW2 were not communists but GREEK HEROES choosing to fight the Nazis, as opposed to Golden Dawn ancestors who collaborated with them. This is evidenced by how much their membership dwindled after 1945. And as I’ve mentioned before EDES and EOK were 2 other large organizations whom I also praise. funny you gloss over that

and seriously who cares about political beliefs at a time of a foreign invader. If you are fighting the invader, unlike Golden Dawn who collaborated with the invader, you are a Greek and a Hero. Political affiliations don’t matter in a time of survival and fending off the invader.

“He did not, however, allow British air forces” but he did. the British, our allies, airforce and navy were involved from the beginning

“was openly fighting other rebel groups” for once we agree to a point but not all of them only the most extreme elements of them. again most of ELAS during WW2 was NOT communist

why do you then support an organization with Nazi roots that praises the 3rd Reich, the foreign invader that did the most damage to Greece. One can be a nationalist and a patriot without being in Golden Dawn. You would NEVER support a party that praises the Ottoman Empire and Ottoman collaborators but here you are doing that exact same thing

yes both the far left and far right and the foreign powers are to blame. Far Right wing factions didn’t have to hide behind anyone as they were WITH the enemy. And please no one hid behind innocent Greek villagers. That is a LIE to excuse the actions of the nazis and their collaborators (ie Golden Dawn) as they burned and executed hundreds of villagers.

I lied about nothing. You are the one putting words in my mouth and now have been blinded to the truth by Nazis as your relatives roll over in their graves. Shame on you

My family was in EDES and EOK and before that fought at Roupel and in the Greco Italian war – hardly bedtime stories. And above everything that happened in the civil war, like REAL GREEK PATRIOTS not golden dawn nazis, there is and will always be one real enemy during this time frame and that is Nazi Germany.

no ruthless dictator, despite doing some good deeds like saying No, is a model Greek. And yes XA has claimed him as one of their own

” There is zero proof of a deliberate German campaign of extermination against the Greek people.” the hundreds to thousands of villages disagree. This is no one’s fault other than German’s

“rather then blaming the average German who has done nothing towards you.” yet all Turks are evil?

sorry Smyrna was both Germany and Turkey. Those who engineer it and watch it happen are equally responsible.

“They acted like they were heroes and let innocents take the fall for them.” this is not remotely true. sorry it isn’t. i won’t even address the absurdity of this. You would NEVER blame Greek rebels when Turks killed Greek citizens and there were many instances where the guerrillas in WW2 were near villages when a GERMAN massacre was about to ensue and they saved the villages. Unfortunately they couldn’t always be everywhere at once just like when they fought the Turks

Greeks have mastered the art of guerrilla warfare, one of the many tactics used against the Germans and the Turks. to discount one to defend the Nazis is absolutely absurd and treasonous. There were many areas in WW2 Greece that were liberated and not under foreign occupation because of the various resistance groups.

“And no, the blockade is without a doubt what caused the mass starvation.” when you lose your entire food supply, who is the one really at fault. here you are again defending your precious Nazis and throwing our allies and Greek rebels under the bus.

Yes more damage in 4 years than 400 years in terms of deaths and total destruction. This comes with technological advancement of a foreign invader. i know it’s hard to wrap your head around that.

Go to jail? Don’t get your hopes up ivas4. Three “media hyped” cases against GD, where the prosecution felt it could secure a conviction because GD’s alleged “crimes” were actually broadcast on TV, have COLLAPSED, so you can imagine how the rest will go.

I’m referring to the acquittal of GD MP Barbarousis, concerning the case of the smashing of unlicensed stalls operated by illegal immigrants at the market of Messolonghi, and the acquittal of GD MP Ilias Kasidiaris for the Kanelli slap.

…and if that wasn’t enough for you, JUST YESTERDAY Golden Dawn MP Ilias Kasidiaris was CLEARED by a judicial council of violating privacy laws in connection with the publication of a video showing him discussing a judicial probe into the party with a close aid of then-prime minister Antonis Samaras, Takis Baltakos.

“The Greek people are anarchic and difficult to tame. For this reason we must strike deep into their cultural roots: Perhaps then we can force them to conform. I mean, of course, to strike at their language, their religion, their cultural and historical reserves, so that we can neutralize their ability to develop, to distinguish themselves, or to prevail; thereby removing them as an obstacle to our strategically vital plans in the Balkans, the Mediterranean, and the Middle East.” – US Secretary of State, the Jewish American Henry Kissinger addressing a group of Washington, D.C. businessmen in Sept.1974, as reported in the popular Greek magazine, Oikonomikos Tachydromos on 14 Aug. 1997)