(10-01-2012 01:38 PM)Thatweirdkid Wrote: I am going to say this as nicely as possible. While you say I am the deluded one, I see you as the deluded one. Not intending to sound biting or rude. The only thing I have found that I agree with almost everyone on is that we are all human. Very few disagree. But it has happened. And when someone cannot know they assume. Just like everyone has to do with The beginning of it all. No one knows for sure because they weren't there. I wasn't there for any history. But I believe it happened because of the books that people who did live then wrote about it. So what it comes down to is what book do you trust most? And by that what opinion. For me, it's the Bible. I don't know what your book of choice for knowledge is. I can only guess it's a scientific book. this was written by a fallible man seeking answers capable of error. My book was Inspired by a loving God who desires a relationship with all mankind. Any day I will choose to believe in someone who loves me over random chance nothing colliding to create all we know and see.

Bolded text is the first sign of love; you know, leading up to the all-caps sermon on the mount. It can be inferred from your declaration that being human is having a source text, as if DNA provides an empty coatrack 'cause reading is fundamental. Oh, and non-delusional human is one who believes he is loved by, I guessing here, this fundamental source text.

Yeah, that's sane. Sign me up.

HOC / Surely you know that bold text if offensive to Yahweh!! Rather like building a golden calf to impress.

As for the young Christian gentleman I would suggest that the ineffable God would not be soully ensconced simply within Judaeo Christianity.

I got lippy cause stuff in the real world is being difficult; then my Gwynnies was Not Smiling at me so of course I hadda do some backpedaling. Women...

And yeah, huh? Say there is this Almighty Stuff that's all with the peace, love and small furry animals; is it gonna care about names, books, empty promises? What is faith without works? I simplify to faith, but I'm always working on it... so I get a little lippy sometimes; my Gwynnies still smiling at me (now anyways. )

Quote:This is where we get back to choosing one's words. The phrase "my own personal proof" is problematic because you are using the word 'proof' in a way that is at odds with its definition.

I believe that people have experiences that convince them that God exists, but they can not convincingly convey those experiences to others (look at kingschosen's posts), so they are not proof to anyone else.

But it seems you already know that.

Okay, evidence that convinces me is indeed what I meant. It's funny how you know what I mean half the time when I don't Lol

Chas is God, didn't you know?

I had a discovery similar to Denicio's. I spent the better part of my life as a hard-core True Beleiver. I felt God so strongly in my life. The evidence that lead to my belief in God felt real and true and I couldn't be shaken in my belief, even by someone like Chas. But as the blinders began to come off, more slowly than most, I realized, like Denicio, that the things I felt were from God's presence were actually just feelings. The closeness I felt in worshiping Jesus thru really good music was the same feeling I got when I heard David Gilmore nail an incredibly awesome solo on Dark Side of the Moon. The joy I experienced in the Body of Believers was the same feeling I had at an Iron Maiden concert. When your mind is programmed to think what you are feeling is God, then of course you're going to believe that feeling can only be from God because it feels so good. Spend some time researching how the brain works and you'll soon find everything can be reduced to chemical reactions. The brain is a powerful thing. More powerful than most Christians recognize. From my experience, True Believers start with the premise that there is a God and they look for any piece of evidence they can find and attribute it to their initial belief that there is a God. If you instead start with the hypothesis that there is no God, you'll attribute fewer things to the supernatural and more things are explained by common sense and science. Of course, you can still end up like KC who went from agnostic to Christian, but he's a special case, and by special, I mean he should be playing in the Special Olympics.

While Erxomani is on a musical tangent....let me also share something with you having been a Christian and playing in church services and Christian Rock Bands back in the late 80's. Do you think those services ebb and flow, swell to a peak by accident? Nope, they are using the power of music to stir a service. Its all by design i can assure you. Songs are selected by design. I know they call it a 'service' but its most assuredly a 'show'.
In the Southern Baptist click, its a tad more subdued but effective, in my later years attending a Charismatic church, its turned up to 11! They are not sing just to hear the wonderful talent that sits in the pews (tongue firmly in cheek) but is the preamble to the Ole preacher man delivering his message followed up by a song played during an invitation (which happens to have a balledesque sound and heart stirring words). The fact that they get the flock to join in is quite a brilliant trick. Singing really does send the 'soul' soaring. You should hear me cooking in the kitchen after a bottle of some good red wine! I sound terrible but can damn near bring myself to tears should a good Jim Stienman song come on! ('Rock n Roll dreams come Through' is a good one)

They TOTALLY understand the power of emotion thru music and harness it quite well. NOTHING is by accident.........i assure you.

Hey folks,
Knowing I'm giving advice where none has been asked, forgive me, but ......
was thinking last evening about this thread. I think we need to look at this "set" of postings with as much understanding as we can muster. This is a (very) young man, who, (if you read thru the first postings), experienced an EXTREMELY traumatic event, and now, while still reeling from that, has come here with questions, and we are basically pulling the rug out from under his entire world. That may or may not happen, and granted, he chooses to be here. The process of his "enlightenment" isn't going to come in a day, or even a year. He has a LOT of education left, in just the basic sciences, to say nothing of, for example, Comparative Literature, and History. His view of things is NOT the same as those of us who have either a bit more education, or have been dealing with these questions for a lot longer. Things that are settled in our brains, are in turmoil in "others", and maybe it's easy to forget the age differences here. I suppose I'll get slammed for saying this, but so be it. Can we try to be understanding of this special circumstance, please ?

Insufferable know-it-all. God has a plan for us. Please stop screwing it up with your prayers.

(11-01-2012 12:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Hey folks,
Knowing I'm giving advice where none has been asked, forgive me, but ......
was thinking last evening about this thread. I think we need to look at this "set" of postings with as much understanding as we can muster. This is a (very) young man, who, (if you read thru the first postings), experienced an EXTREMELY traumatic event, and now, while still reeling from that, has come here with questions, and we are basically pulling the rug out from under his entire world. That may or may not happen, and granted, he chooses to be here. The process of his "enlightenment" isn't going to come in a day, or even a year. He has a LOT of education left, in just the basic sciences, to say nothing of, for example, Comparative Literature, and History. His view of things is NOT the same as those of us who have either a bit more education, or have been dealing with these questions for a lot longer. Things that are settled in our brains, are in turmoil in "others", and maybe it's easy to forget the age differences here. I suppose I'll get slammed for saying this, but so be it. Can we try to be understanding of this special circumstance, please ?

I had a similar thought, Bucky. The OP didn't come in telling us we have to believe like he does. He asked us a question and asked for enlightenment about our viewpoints. It seems he's received a lot of personal attack simply for asking a question. But of course, WE seem to do this often to those we disagree with.

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness
~Izel

(11-01-2012 12:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Hey folks,
Knowing I'm giving advice where none has been asked, forgive me, but ......
was thinking last evening about this thread. I think we need to look at this "set" of postings with as much understanding as we can muster. This is a (very) young man, who, (if you read thru the first postings), experienced an EXTREMELY traumatic event, and now, while still reeling from that, has come here with questions, and we are basically pulling the rug out from under his entire world. That may or may not happen, and granted, he chooses to be here. The process of his "enlightenment" isn't going to come in a day, or even a year. He has a LOT of education left, in just the basic sciences, to say nothing of, for example, Comparative Literature, and History. His view of things is NOT the same as those of us who have either a bit more education, or have been dealing with these questions for a lot longer. Things that are settled in our brains, are in turmoil in "others", and maybe it's easy to forget the age differences here. I suppose I'll get slammed for saying this, but so be it. Can we try to be understanding of this special circumstance, please ?

I had a similar thought, Bucky. The OP didn't come in telling us we have to believe like he does. He asked us a question and asked for enlightenment about our viewpoints. It seems he's received a lot of personal attack simply for asking a question. But of course, WE seem to do this often to those we disagree with.

This. I think the fact that he's here and asking questions says a lot about his desire for knowledge even though it conficts with his current views.

“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it's time to pause and reflect.”

(11-01-2012 12:31 PM)Bucky Ball Wrote: Hey folks,
Knowing I'm giving advice where none has been asked, forgive me, but ......
was thinking last evening about this thread. I think we need to look at this "set" of postings with as much understanding as we can muster. This is a (very) young man, who, (if you read thru the first postings), experienced an EXTREMELY traumatic event, and now, while still reeling from that, has come here with questions, and we are basically pulling the rug out from under his entire world. That may or may not happen, and granted, he chooses to be here. The process of his "enlightenment" isn't going to come in a day, or even a year. He has a LOT of education left, in just the basic sciences, to say nothing of, for example, Comparative Literature, and History. His view of things is NOT the same as those of us who have either a bit more education, or have been dealing with these questions for a lot longer. Things that are settled in our brains, are in turmoil in "others", and maybe it's easy to forget the age differences here. I suppose I'll get slammed for saying this, but so be it. Can we try to be understanding of this special circumstance, please ?

Thanks Bucky - It is the very reason I thought there should be a food break. He needs to know his questioning is normal and welcome. Even though it might seem as if he's only picked up a few very basic things to help him learn, he has absorbed quite a bit of information. Don't forget, he's on a couple of other threads as well, and still on his feet -he's a sharp kid. We all know it's a shame to see such smarts stuffed into the God box.
Let's help the Theweirdkid ... to be the regular, normal, smart kid he is.

A new type of thinking is essential if mankind is to survive and move to higher levels. ~ Albert Einstein

If he had trauma and for some odd reason he ended up with us Hellbound White Apes....then he came looking for something. Sometimes folks need a jolt to get back on track.

I don't own a pair of kid gloves. I don't know the language of politically correct.
Based on my life and my experieces...i will get right to the heart of the matter without wasting time or beating around the bush.

If what we have to say is too much for him then maybe he should reconsider a different venue. I refuse to tone down my opinion on something if i feel strongly about it.

Maybe i am the big ass in the forum. I am ok with that.
I simply wont sugarcoat answers for anyone.

Someone claiming to be saved went to an Atheist forum seeking something...i think we owe it to ANYONE to deliver what we know. Did he expect us to be praising jesus in here? Or did he expect to be challanged on everything he believes?

(11-01-2012 01:23 PM)Denicio Wrote: The truth comes in many forms...and in many cases is not pretty.

If he had trauma and for some odd reason he ended up with us Hellbound White Apes....then he came looking for something. Sometimes folks need a jolt to get back on track.

I don't own a pair of kid gloves. I don't know the language of politically correct.
Based on my life and my experieces...i will get right to the heart of the matter without wasting time or beating around the bush.

If what we have to say is too much for him then maybe he should reconsider a different venue. I refuse to tone down my opinion on something if i feel strongly about it.

Maybe i am the big ass in the forum. I am ok with that.
I simply wont sugarcoat answers for anyone.

Someone claiming to be saved went to an Atheist forum seeking something...i think we owe it to ANYONE to deliver what we know. Did he expect us to be praising jesus in here? Or did he expect to be challanged on everything he believes?

D

I'm not in favor of sugar coating either. And D, I don't think you're responses are out of line. I guess I just feel a sense of overall attack as I read through the entire thread, rather than overall, "hey Kid, good questions, but here's reality."

It was just a fucking apple man, we're sorry okay? Please stop the madness
~Izel