Vaccines and drugs are a war on the Human Constitution. It is a Dark Superstition that should never be part of the 21st century. It's Black Magic to think that injecting foreign matter, dead pathogen, animal DNA can give any benefit. Ever.

Because calling something with a ton of scientific evidence behind it "black magic" is nuts and completely over the top. Also, saying that there is never, ever any benefit to vaccination is just as bad as saying that vaccination is 100% effective and 100% safe all the time.

Mosaic

12-02-2012 03:43 PM

Remember: you can disagree with a study/statement/person without calling it nuts, crazy, etc. That kind of loaded language takes us to infraction-land, so edit before I have to kick folks off the thread.

lilabet

12-02-2012 03:47 PM

Lets be fair here. The Dr started with the loaded language - Black Magic?!

chickabiddy

12-02-2012 03:48 PM

Is it acceptable to say that I find so-called researchers who compare vaccines and drugs (which drugs? all drugs? because penicillin rocks) to black magic, or the Canadian health authorities to Nazi Germany, very in-credible?

Mosaic

12-02-2012 04:51 PM

In-credible: yes, ok

Lilibet: that's the original quote. And you may very well consider it ridiculous. Feel free to get a FB login and tell her off there. But express it HERE in a mature fashion. "She started it!" doesn't work for me.

Dakotacakes

12-02-2012 05:17 PM

II think at one point Dr. Tenpenny probably started from a place of thought and reason, and a desire for informed conversation. Her facebook page states that she is the voice of reason in vaccines. I think she has veered away from being a voice of reason and into shrill hyperbole. I also think it is par for the course of internet personalitites. They get pushed further and further to extreme edges. Basic arguments don't get the attention that more extreme views do. She also has an online store where she sells various supplements etc that people should take in lieu of vaccines and drugs. We discuss the evils of "Big Pharma" often and take everything from them with a grain of salt because of the conflict of itnerest. This in my opinion is the same, she profits from people using her way rather than mainstream medicine and vaccines. I think she is going further to keep people buying.

I also wonder what drugs she is discussing. Certainly she wouldn't consider life saving antibiotics, insulin etc. black magic? I am going to give her the benefit of the doubt that she didn't mean all drugs because if she did I would wonder what her reasoning for going to medical school was.

major_mama11

12-02-2012 05:41 PM

Agreed, Dakotacakes.

major_mama11

12-02-2012 05:43 PM

Re: the profit issue, especially.

major_mama11

12-02-2012 06:25 PM

Yes, I do find it a tad strange if this person is actually referring to life-saving medications like insulin and antibiotics as Black Magic. Insulin, for example, can do some pretty cool tricks for a child who is in the ICU for DKA.

Chicharronita

12-03-2012 12:52 PM

I think in the context of what she's trying to expose, the quote is right-on.

I'm pretty sure she doesn't mean that if you absolutely need acute medical care, you shouldn't get it.

Like if you were to get hit by a car and were lying in the street in a puddle of your own blood, I doubt Dr. Tenpenny would stand over you and be all: "OH NOES DON'T GET THE EVVVILLLL DRUGS!!!!"

But many times they are given to people when they're not necessary; I seriously doubt anyone has a statin deficiency for example. ;-)

Lots of people are finding that they can normalize their cholesterol (ignoring the fact that the magic number was lowered some years back, possibly to increase the amount of people who could be diagnosed as having "high" cholesterol) and reduce or eliminate the amount of insulin they need by making dietary and lifestyle changes.

Rrrrrachel

12-03-2012 06:20 PM

Yes. Lots o fpeople are. But guess what, lots of people aren't, too. Lots of people have health problems that aren't fixed by diet and exercise. Even picking on high blood pressure, cholesterol, and diabetes, sometimes people NEED DRUGS to manage those conditions.

Even if people COULD control them by losing weight, eating better etc, if they aren't going to do those things they should what, just die?

Chicharronita

12-03-2012 07:15 PM

But the problem is that most doctors don't start there. They go right to prescribing the meds.

Often you can tell which ones will: they have all the Big Pharma paraphernalia strewn about their offices: coffee mugs, pens, writing pads, etc. etc. pimping the drug du jour.

Like this:

Am I lucky to have found a doctor who will prescribe a medication as a last resort? Is he that unusual?

Rrrrrachel

12-03-2012 07:17 PM

I think that's a huge generalization and I have not found it to be true in my experience.

Chicharronita

12-03-2012 07:42 PM

I guess if people are lucky and do have doctors like us they won't see it, but Dr. Tenpenny is talking about the majority that don't have them.

After all, someone has got to be out there peddling these meds or else how else could the pharmaceutical industry turn such huge profits?

Rrrrrachel

12-03-2012 07:46 PM

I'm just pointing out, again, that you're making an unsupported generalization.

Honey693

12-03-2012 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel

I think that's a huge generalization and I have not found it to be true in my experience.

I agree. DH's cholesterol is super high and his doctor said diet and exercise, come back in a year, Same for my MIL, FIL and best friend.

Bokonon

12-03-2012 08:02 PM

I thought anecdotes were not data?

The bottom line is that if doctors weren't prescribing these drugs en masse, they wouldn't be profitable.

Honey693

12-03-2012 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chicharronita

I think in the context of what she's trying to expose, the quote is right-on.

I'm pretty sure she doesn't mean that if you absolutely need acute medical care, you shouldn't get it.

Like if you were to get hit by a car and were lying in the street in a puddle of your own blood, I doubt Dr. Tenpenny would stand over you and be all: "OH NOES DON'T GET THE EVVVILLLL DRUGS!!!!"

But many times they are given to people when they're not necessary; I seriously doubt anyone has a statin deficiency for example. ;-)

Lots of people are finding that they can normalize their cholesterol (ignoring the fact that the magic number was lowered some years back, possibly to increase the amount of people who could be diagnosed as having "high" cholesterol) and reduce or eliminate the amount of insulin they need by making dietary and lifestyle changes.

Or it could have been lowered b/c the old number was too high and people were coming in with huge problems. But, you know, whatever.

Honey693

12-03-2012 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon

I thought anecdotes were not data?

The bottom line is that if doctors weren't prescribing these drugs en masse, they wouldn't be profitable.

They're not, but if Chicharronita is going to use it as fact it so am I.

Rrrrrachel

12-03-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon

I thought anecdotes were not data?

The bottom line is that if doctors weren't prescribing these drugs en masse, they wouldn't be profitable.

Uh, sure they would?

Bokonon

12-03-2012 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel

Uh, sure they would?

Are you actually trying to discuss this, or just contradict without proof everything the "other side" says?

Chicharronita

12-03-2012 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon

The bottom line is that if doctors weren't prescribing these drugs en masse, they wouldn't be profitable.

Exactly!

Rrrrrachel

12-03-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon

Are you actually trying to discuss this, or just contradict without proof everything the "other side" says?

Wether or not something is profitable depends on the pricing structure and the profit margin. Not whether you sell loads of it, although that certainly helps.

Chicharronita

12-03-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bokonon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rrrrrachel

Uh, sure they would?

Are you actually trying to discuss this, or just contradict without proof everything the "other side" says?

It seems like a tactic to derail a thread and/or get it shut down. I hope moderators are taking note.