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Re: Your thoughts on Gotham Heights in Kings of the Crisis?

Originally Posted by Volandum

Definite plus, much more interesting than watching people lane. The strategy shown in streamed games is a bit behind the meta though (which is itself very immature), and there is much to learn for everyone involved, which makes it even more interesting.

This. I prefer GH over the other maps both to play and watch and I've been watching a lot of the random spectator streams and commentating them for fun. I think the fate of GH as a spectator map is in the hands of the commentary team (no pressure ) and the 'narrative' that gets built over the course of a game. There is a meta to GH but it's poorly understood and ill defined. If commentators can explain it to their audience and then narrate how a team is suceeding or failing to exploit it then there will be more tension and drama to the games and a lot less confusion as to what's going on.

The meta includes things like the tension between kills and capture points. Objectives win the game but if a team can't get enough kills then they will fall behind on the power curve and struggle to get back in the game. This is what makes the early OC fights so important for a team that is behind because a team can lose the early tower fights for Waynes Tower but make it up in the open team fight for mid, levelling up with some good team kills and assists, buying crucial items, and getting to that all important 3-4 kill mark where a player can start to really be useful. It's the difference between a good 'group fighting' team and a good 'tower diving' team that works better in individual fights. While other teams dominate with map control and lag on kills but their ability to hold down towers means they still win the game, grinding out a hard fought win even though they're underpowered and could have gotten steamrolled at any point in the game.

The other important meta concept is time efficiency. Everything in GH is about efficiency - getting to points faster, getting back to points faster, crossing the map and appearing where your opponents aren't so they have to double back, etc. The goal is to spend as little time dead as possible and as little time running the wrong way or time wasting in base etc. It's the difference between capturing a point or getting caught on tower. Players who get caught out running the wrong direction or porting back to base at the wrong moment have made a big mistake with consequences for their team. A player who can port to base, heal, load up on items and then port back to tower BEFORE their opponent realises Waynes Tower is unprotected has made a big play that can earn their team dozens of points.

The art of tower diving. In GH it's a thing - one of THE things - and some characters are better than others, either defending or attacking, making them GH specialists. The meta revolves around a teams ability to either win or hold a tower and how the various combinations of characters within a team perform as players die and run back to tower will dictate wether they can win or not. Enforcers can lock down a tower and hold off attacks but can they actually take a tower? Doomsday, Supergirl and @GL can charge or grab people off tower but can they do this on their own or do they need to wait for help from someone with high damage output? Can a squishy poke someone off tower, and at what point do you run from tower to save your life or do you die on tower in the hope that you've delayed the enemy long enough for reinforcements to get there?

Bot lane is also important. Can someone hold bot lane on their own? Because if they win bot lane it's a victory for their team, dragging off other players and relieving pressure on Waynes Tower. A good bot lane gank and you've levelled up your bot laner but do you then push on to your opponents bot tower or head north to Wayne's to add more pressure? How does a team react and redistribute its players according to what happens in bot lane? Can they hold down three points while they wait for their bot laner to respawn and get back in the fight?

These and other aspects are unique to the meta of GH and the commentary is able to highlight them and show the audience why a team is on their way to winning or losing the game, and therefore what they need to do to get back in the fight. If the commentators can set up that game narrative then every play is a 'can they do this?' situation with the suspense and anticipation that goes into any good sporting event. But at the moment people aren't able to parse out the various phases and important moments of a GH game so it appears to be random chaos, a mess that doesn't interest people beyond the fact that they get to watch superheroes punch each other in the face.

I think that if the 'narrative' can be established then GH as a spectator game will become successful. All it needs is people to take it seriously and try to develop the meta awareness, unique GH vocabulary and serious competitiveness that any map format requires. Watching GH on KoC is a step in that direction so I'm enjoying it immensely.

Re: Your thoughts on Gotham Heights in Kings of the Crisis?

While I would say I am Biased from being a participate in many a LoL: Dominion tournament, I will say that the KoC fights we're anything but boring.

Among things that I loved seeing:
1. The Crazy opening fights with all the Stolen Powers getting flung out.
2. The Bottom Ganks(which there could of easily been more)
3. The long fought out OC fights.
4. C pulling a very close victory in the opener.
5. The near nonstop action and reaction.

Overall it was a good tournament, better I would say even that the earlier RD 3 GH KoC matches I had seen(Where people we're bashing their head agianst thetop turret)

Re: Your thoughts on Gotham Heights in Kings of the Crisis?

Originally Posted by Xoulrath

All great points, Genericke.

I agree with him, but the hardest problem with the map is the stygma of "LoL Dominion, noob map". Most people just see that and stop watching, though we may argue that this is what people who see IC as a whole do.

Re: Your thoughts on Gotham Heights in Kings of the Crisis?

As a player I do enjoy playing it now and then as it's a quick match and doesn't require too much thinking.

It's one of those maps that is fun to play if you're messing around but horrible to watch because there's no focus for the match. It's just things happening all over and frustrating to watch because you may want to see something else happening that the view isn't on. It actually feels more like trench warfare than a game of skill.

I wouldn't have it on the competition list unless it's one GH tournament every now and then specifically for teams who love it.

In all honesty, I would have a vote decided beforehand on which maps teams want to play against each other on instead of bouncing them around maps. I don't think it's fair to make them play out of their chosen maps unless the idea is to make it so the champs keep getting knocked off. Having to cover so many maps as a pro must suck and feel infuriating.

Don't let common sense stop you."They say I'm fearless, but actually I'm very afraid. Of getting beat. Of backing down. Of chickening out. That fear just blows all the others away."

Re: Your thoughts on Gotham Heights in Kings of the Crisis?

Originally Posted by Unilord

I agree with him, but the hardest problem with the map is the stygma of "LoL Dominion, noob map". Most people just see that and stop watching, though we may argue that this is what people who see IC as a whole do.

It's not just that it's the fact that we don't need this game trying to be competitive on 3 maps.
I play GH a lot but when I try to watch people play GH competitively it's just so insanely boring, it's just people running around on a map capping points.

Re: Your thoughts on Gotham Heights in Kings of the Crisis?

I play GH a lot but when I try to watch people play GH competitively it's just so insanely boring, it's just people running around on a map capping points.

If you think that that is all that is going on, then as Genericke pointed out, you don't truly understand the map.

And here's a funny thing about almost all spectator-type events: Without a good announcer to keep the audience focused during the pauses in action, most people won't stay to watch.

I've watched quite a few GH matches from IC twitch streams with their casters to a casual player streaming the game on twitch. And I must say, I question almost every single decision made in almost every game that I have seen.

There are rarely, if ever, ganks on bot. As Genericke pointed out in his post, you gank bot until bot gives up. Period. And if you find yourself and your bot on the losing end of that, then you need to act accordingly.

The teamfights for points and for mid always have such horrible positioning.

Players buy the weirdest items for their Champs. They never counter-build. I always find it funny when I see a MM lead off with Atomic Axe. Even with the mod, Coda still ends up being the better early-game choice. You buy Atomic as a counter to heavy armor, not as a core item. Coda has more overall damage and has the healing debuff, which simply gets better and better as more heals are introduced into the game. Part of this game, regardless of map, is counter-building and you rarely see it in most GH games.

I could go on and on, but truthfully Genericke covered most of the important points. GH is a very action-packed map that has a lot more in the way of strategy and tactics than the typical MOBA player is giving it credit for.

Turbine needs to find some players who are actually worth a damn at team fights and GH in general and start casting that. Then let's see how the general consensus around the map changes.

V3G3TA: "Im pretty confident about my member...probly why I use Ham, and focus on the W, not the kdr...big guy thrwin his meat around sayin stuff. one really understands...with hair fom the 80 s...yep.. that ham makes me feel li myself"