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The central message of the Christian religion is that all humans are evil sinners and deserve to be tortured for all eternity. While Christianity does offer the only solution to the problem that it creates in the form of vicarious redemption in Jesus Christ, there is no escaping the first part of this proposition.

I disagree with this initial premise. I don’t think all humans are evil sinners deserving of being tortured for any amount of time let alone all eternity. As such, I am not in need of any kind of redemption let alone a blood sacrifices through vicarious redemption. It also seems to me that this is primarily a message of hate. It is a hatred of one’s fellow human beings.

Many Christians tend to focus more on the solution to the problem then problem itself and I can’t blame them for that. However, the solution is unnecessary if one rejects the premise that everyone deserves to be tortured for all eternity. This is a message which isn’t just repeated over and over again in the Christian Bible, but also amounts to the nuts and bolts of the religion. It is hard to genuinely consider oneself a Christian without accepting this ridiculously hateful message.

Let me put it a different way. What if someone came up to you and told you that you are a horrible person and that you should be tortured mercilessly because you are so horrible, but if you dedicate your like to worshipping [insert you favorite fictional character], you can be forgiven for being such a horrible person. Some Christians may dress up this hateful message but at the end of the day this is what the belief system amounts to.

Christianity is a religion of self-hate and a hatred of humanity. So why is it that when atheists point this out, we are labeled the hateful ones? I don’t hate Christians. I don’t hate anyone. I don’t think humans are perfect, but we certainly aren’t evil and no one deserves to be tortured for any reason.

I will admit that I tend to view humanity in a more positive view than most other atheists, but I still think one would be hard pressed to find any atheist who would advocate torturing everyone on Earth for any amount of time. That would be mean and hateful.

Among my Christian friends, there are some who adhere to a strict, fundamentalist doctrine, and some who have rejected most of the unpalatable things about it and essentially created their own faith, only nominally similar to Christianity. The former would say two things to you: first, it might sound harsh but it’s true, so aren’t we grateful that Jesus died for us? And second, of course you don’t like it, you belong to the world and are blinded by sin. And of course you’re hateful, because deep in your heart you must know the truth and are choosing to reject it.

Circular and unfalsifiable. *shrug*

The second group would waffle a lot around that “all have sinned” doctrine, deny that they believe anybody will be tortured for any amount of time, and reassert that Christianity is all about love. I have more sympathy for them, even though they fail at intellectual rigor, because they’re trying to keep ties with things that were essential to them growing up, while acknowledging the real-world truths and morals they have seen. They are very, very good at discarding any part of the religion they don’t like.

You’re right, of course. But Christians of all types have their ways of rationalizing this away. Bottom line, we’re hateful because we’re trying to take away something that’s precious to them… never mind what a damaging thing it might be.

http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

Yes, I have heard those criticisms before. I want to address them not for you of course but for others who might read this. For the Fundamentalists.
1. The claim isn’t just that this is how it is, but rather that God is perfect, had a plan, and his plan is good. Therefore, this is how it ought to be.
2. If we are all evil sinners, then they are just as blinded by sin as I am.

For the liberal Christians.
There really is no way to square the message of Jesus’s sacrifice without acknowledging the reason why such a sacrifice is required.

You really don’t have any idea about why religion exists or why is has lasted for millennia, do you? Does it make any sense whatsoever that something that was designed to harm people would be adhered to for this long? Everybody before now was a moron, engaged in duping one another? Seriously? Please check out modern theology before wring more.

http://None Tor

writing not wring – my bad

http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

Tor, I believe my whole argument here was that religious people are NOT morons. I also never said that religion was designed to cause harm. That is obviously not true. But this blog article has nothing to do with why religion has lasted. I think I have probably written on that subject before though, you might want to check the categories in the sidebar —->

http://www.dangeroustalk.net Staks

Oh, this isn’t the article where I defend Christians as not being stupid. My bad. Check the “recent posts” section in the side bar —-> How Can They Believe This Stuff?
That’s the article in which I defend Christians against the claim that they are stupid.

FYD

Thanks for at least getting the story straight before disagreeing with it. I get really tired of listening to someone rant, and then at the end have to say, “What on earth are you talking about? Christianity teaches no such thing”.
You, on the other hand, have managed to actually get the story basically right. Well done.
I have one small, teensy weensy point of disagreement. Your assessment about “being a so horid a person that you should (we say deserve to) burn in hell… But if you will worship [insert name] you can be forgiven.”
There’s actually no such condition. In fact, there is no condition at all. It’s not a matter of “if you will” because there is nothing prescribed in the Bible for you to do. There’s no call to “do something”, but rather to “believe something”.
As an atheist, you are safely past that bit now.

http://skepticink.com/dangeroustalk Dangerous Talk

So you are saying that one doesn’t need to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior (John 3:16) to be vicariously redeemed? I guess every Christian is different, but I think you are in the minority of Christians who hold that belief. Still, i don’t even believe that much, so are you still going to claim that I deserve to be tortured for all eternity? I call that a pretty hateful message and that’s the point of this post. Thanks.

Found Dog

I’m not sure how one would “do” that. How does a person “accept the sacrifice?” It doesn’t make sense to me. Oh well.