by Gregory Korte, Jackie Kucinich and Susan Davis, USA TODAY

by Gregory Korte, Jackie Kucinich and Susan Davis, USA TODAY

WASHINGTON - Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Tuesday that beginning Thursday, the Senate will hold votes on gun control - with or without a Republican filibuster.

As a bipartisan compromise proved elusive, Reid scheduled a vote to end debate on Thursday. Even if he falls short of the 60 votes needed to end debate, he said he'll make Republicans filibuster the bill until he gets a vote. "It will take a little bit of time, but we're going to do it," he said.

"We need to move to this legislation â?¦ and let the cards fall where they may," he told reporters following a closed-door Democratic meeting.

Reid's action starts the clock on what will be the most intense debate on gun control since the 1994 crime bill. But even now, the exact shape of the legislation is very much undefined.

More than an hour after a 5 p.m. target for a compromise on criminal background checks for gun purchases, Sen. Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., and Sen. Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., emerged from the majority leader's office without a Plan B.

"We're closer than we've ever been," Schumer said.

"These have all been great talks," Manchin said.

The compromise Manchin was trying to forge with Sen. Pat Toomey, the Republican from the neighboring Appalachian state of Pennsylvania, will have to come Wednesday - if it comes at all. They're working on a plan to expand background checks and close the "gun show loophole."

It's not clear whether there are 60 votes to end debate, and Reid conceded he didn't know, either. Several Republican senators have indicated they will vote with Democrats to end the filibuster and allow an up-or-down vote on the gun bill.

Sen. Kelly Ayotte, R-N.H., said on MSNBC Tuesday "I don't support a filibuster for this," and Sen. Johnny Isakson, R-Ga., said on CBS that although it was still unclear what would be in the bill, "I think it deserves a vote up or down."

Other Republican senators who have expressed reservations about a filibuster include John McCain of Arizona and Tom Coburn of Oklahoma.

Sen. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., wouldn't say outright whether he would support the Republican filibuster Tuesday, saying the final bill had not yet been released.

"I'll be anxious to see what the actual gun legislation looks like when Sen. Reid finally is ready to bring it to the floor and whether it has amendments on it or not," he said. "But as a general principle, I believe it's always better to debate the bill."

Sen. John Cornyn, R-Texas, had a similar answer, telling reporters that he hadn't seen the final bill.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., said he welcomed a debate on the issue. "I will vote to proceed with the bill if I get assurances that we can offer meaningful amendments," he said. "I don't fear the debate; I welcome the debate. That's just me."

Vice President Biden said Tuesday that the prospect of a Republican filibuster was "mind-boggling" and said the issue "isn't going away."

But Reid may not have all his Democratic votes, either. Sen. Frank Lautenberg, D-N.J., is ill and will not be in the Senate this week to vote, and at least two leading Democrats, Sens. Max Baucus of Montana and Mark Pryor of Arkansas, have not said whether they will support Reid's effort to move to the gun bill. Pryor confirmed to reporters Tuesday that he hadn't decided on whether to vote to proceed on the gun bill.

"I don't get all the Democrats all the time," Reid said. "That's for sure."

Sen. Ted Cruz, R-Texas, defended the filibuster. "In my view, every senator has a responsibility to actively protect the Bill of Rights," he said. "Any bill that would undermine the Bill of Rights, in my view, should be subject to a 60-vote threshold."

But he deflected questions on whether he had enough senators to block a vote, or whether Tea Party-allied senators would take to the floor in a "talking filibuster," such as the one Sen. Rand Paul, R-Ky., conducted last month on President Obama's nominee to head the CIA.

"I would be happy spending the next two or three weeks on the floor of the Senate debating this," Cruz said. "There's an irony to the calls for 'Let's have a debate.' We're having the debate right now."