If you love running in complete solitude for 90% of the race, Delaware was the place for you. Ideal for those college kids that are sick and tired of their parents cheering for them as the spread out course only allowed fans to get to about 3 places on the course. The finish and start lines were located about 1 mile apart which assured that half your gear was gone by the time you got back to it after the race.

I actually loved the course itself. It was one of the best 10k courses I ever ran, but there was nothing really special about the atmosphere or attendance at the meet the years I ran there. Somewhat forgettable. I'm sure Cedarville can live up to the standard.

The All-Ohio meet is Friday @ Cedarville. Nothing against the Cedarville people, but I liked the Delaware site/ location better.

Thoughts??

If you mean the course where they run in the park where you get to see nothing? It probably is fun to run on, but from a spectator it was horrible. The OH-MI-IN regional is there this year, boring. No parking either.

The All-Ohio meet is Friday @ Cedarville. Nothing against the Cedarville people, but I liked the Delaware site/ location better.

Thoughts??

OWU's course at MeTheSco was crap. All it had going for it was its location relative to the rest of the state. The parking was nearly as bad as the course itself.

I have not seen OWU's newer course that goes around a bunch of soccer fields firsthand, but my initial thought when looking at the map was, "this course sucks." Maybe I'll catch the NCAA DIII regional there in November.

Now that Akron has a dedicated XC course, maybe the All-Ohio meet can move back and forth, but Akron's course could use more infrastructure before hosting a meet of this size.

OWU's course at MeTheSco was crap. All it had going for it was its location relative to the rest of the state. The parking was nearly as bad as the course itself.

I have not seen OWU's newer course that goes around a bunch of soccer fields firsthand, but my initial thought when looking at the map was, "this course sucks." Maybe I'll catch the NCAA DIII regional there in November.

Now that Akron has a dedicated XC course, maybe the All-Ohio meet can move back and forth, but Akron's course could use more infrastructure before hosting a meet of this size.

Akron's new course would definitely need to bolster the amount of parking it can provide. I think it could be a great option though. Hopefully the continue to slowly build it towards a true championship venue.

Akron's new course would definitely need to bolster the amount of parking it can provide. I think it could be a great option though. Hopefully the continue to slowly build it towards a true championship venue.

Agreed. Insufficient parking was one of the first things I noticed when I stopped by to check out the course last summer.

IIRC, they had people park at Wadsworth HS and shuttled them back and forth to the course when the Suburban League Super Duals were held there last year.

What would have Ohio State XC come in had they been there/each time "tried"? I'm betting that on a bad day, they could be as bad as the 5th best team in the state.

Miami- Hammered OSU in two meets already
Dayton- Looked good at All-Ohio compared to OSU's last place finish at ND
Akron- Toss-up, but again based off of All-Ohio/ND, I'd pick Akron
OU- Have beaten Akron once this year already, see above

EDIT: I know Miami wasn't there as well, I'm more going for a hypothetical "true" All-Ohio race

What would have Ohio State XC come in had they been there/each time "tried"? I'm betting that on a bad day, they could be as bad as the 5th best team in the state.

Miami- Hammered OSU in two meets already
Dayton- Looked good at All-Ohio compared to OSU's last place finish at ND
Akron- Toss-up, but again based off of All-Ohio/ND, I'd pick Akron
OU- Have beaten Akron once this year already, see above

EDIT: I know Miami wasn't there as well, I'm more going for a hypothetical "true" All-Ohio race

Ohio State men won All-Ohio in 2015 & 2016. Most of the same guys are still there, including all of the following:
2015: Bowie 4th, Stifel 6th, Leitch 10th, Landis 20th, Blank 37th
2016: Stifel 2nd, Mandel 4th, Landis 10th, Wood 32nd, Blank 48th

Several of the Buckeye men are dinged up. Of the main veterans, only Mandel, Leitch, and Blank raced at ND, with Stifel and Wood (top 2 at Vanderbilt) sitting out. Bowie and Landis have yet to race this year.

I'm hoping they are getting healthy and looking to improve their B1G result. Not much to gain from them racing All-Ohio.

Ohio State men won All-Ohio in 2015 & 2016. Most of the same guys are still there, including all of the following:
2015: Bowie 4th, Stifel 6th, Leitch 10th, Landis 20th, Blank 37th
2016: Stifel 2nd, Mandel 4th, Landis 10th, Wood 32nd, Blank 48th

Several of the Buckeye men are dinged up. Of the main veterans, only Mandel, Leitch, and Blank raced at ND, with Stifel and Wood (top 2 at Vanderbilt) sitting out. Bowie and Landis have yet to race this year.

I'm hoping they are getting healthy and looking to improve their B1G result. Not much to gain from them racing All-Ohio.

Not much for them to gain by being last at Notre Dame either. If they are going to go there, at least run in the slower division and be competitive.

Not much for them to gain by being last at Notre Dame either. If they are going to go there, at least run in the slower division and be competitive.

For OSU to get anywhere in the Big10 they will need
(1) different coach
(2) different mentality
(3) different recruiting
(4) walk-ons that ran sub 9:30 in the 3200
**Basically a totally different program. That has yet to happen in my lifetime. Almost happened under Robert, but he bolted for the $$.

For OSU to get anywhere in the Big10 they will need
(1) different coach
(2) different mentality
(3) different recruiting
(4) walk-ons that ran sub 9:30 in the 3200
**Basically a totally different program. That has yet to happen in my lifetime. Almost happened under Robert, but he bolted for the $$.

(1) Just replaced the CC coach. Did you mean track? Most would say the track program is successful.
(2) The new CC coach definitely has a "different mentality" than the previous CC coach.
(4) Looked up the high school times from the roster: Bowie (9:01), Landis (9:04), Stifel (9:07), Leitch (9:08), Blank (9:12), Mandel (9:12), and Wood (9:16). Elswick (8:57) would be a senior this year but left for the Marines. He was definitely not a walk-on though.

I don't know how the $ shakes out but there are not 7 scholarships, Lomong is probably getting a fair amount. so some of these guys must be walk-ons, no?

For OSU to get anywhere in the Big10 they will need
(1) different coach
(2) different mentality
(3) different recruiting
(4) walk-ons that ran sub 9:30 in the 3200
**Basically a totally different program. That has yet to happen in my lifetime. Almost happened under Robert, but he bolted for the $$.

1. Couldn't agree more. As awful as Brice Allen was, a Brice coached team with their legs tied together would probably win 15-60 against a Khadevis coached XC team. Thank goodness for OSU that they have Vergote. Although I'm not sure how much she works with the men/how much power she has. Considering that the team probably has to watch Khadevis motivational videos in a Clockwork Orange type manner, I'd hope for them that she has sway.

2. Agreed with this too. It starts with Karen, TJ Shelton, and Gene Smith though. They simply do not care about men's cross country. Gene would only care if there was a chance that one of the athletes could win NCAAs/pad his bonus check.

3. I don't know what they can do about this one. I'd imagine that Karen probably runs a pretty lean ship when it comes to men's distance recruiting. With limited money, the best thing that OSU could do would be to sell Ohioans on OSU as a school, not a place to run. I said this over the summer that whether everyone would admit it or not, almost every single Ohio male has dreams growing up of playing for OSU football, etc. It's the flagship university in the state. You're not going to sell recruits on the cross country team, you're going to sell them on OSU as a whole. Which is why Khadevis was such an awful hire. He'll probably try to sell them on Khadevis, instead of Ohio State.

4. To one of the earlier comment about the current guys on the team, yes they were sub 9:30 guys but they've all been on the team for a few years. The recruiting class of 2017 looked like a recruiting class from Northeastern Alabama State Community College.

* And ah yes the Robert days... When OSU was criticized for not coming in top-20 in the NCAA every year. I don't know if OSU will finish in top-20 in the Big Ten this year...

(1) Just replaced the CC coach. Did you mean track? Most would say the track program is successful.
(2) The new CC coach definitely has a "different mentality" than the previous CC coach.
(4) Looked up the high school times from the roster: Bowie (9:01), Landis (9:04), Stifel (9:07), Leitch (9:08), Blank (9:12), Mandel (9:12), and Wood (9:16). Elswick (8:57) would be a senior this year but left for the Marines. He was definitely not a walk-on though.

I don't know how the $ shakes out but there are not 7 scholarships, Lomong is probably getting a fair amount. so some of these guys must be walk-ons, no?

They should attract walk-ons that are high caliber kids. Kids that do not want to take $$$ and attend Iowa State, Florida State, Kentucky, Cincinnati, Akron, etc. but the program SHOULD be at a level that every kid in the state dreams about running for them. I see that farthest from the truth. This was the case for Stanford and Arkansas in the late 90's to 2010. Now the paradigm has shifted to mostly a nucleus of 5-10 schools. Stanford in their heyday would have 5-10 walk-ons that were sub 9:20 guys.

I lived in Michigan for 5 years after my college running days and every kid in Michigan dreamed of running for State or UofM. EMU tradition is even on a scale that OSU distance running has never reached.

I really retract my previous points and think the entire program needs a cultural shift. That will take 3-5 years for the new coach to build. I do not know who the new coach is, but they have 3 -5 years.
If we keep losing coaches to Furman and Indiana etc. it will only dampen the culture. OSU should be the destination not the starting point in these coaches coaching careers.