Spike Lee's MIRACLE AT ST. ANNA looks damn good!

Hey folks, Harry here... Here's a film that I have a lot of hope for. Spike Lee is consistently an interesting and compelling filmmaker... and in the real world he can really grate one's nerves - but it is as an artist that I admire Spike Lee - and his latest film THE MIRACLE AT ST. ANNA looks absolutely fantastic. I'm not familiar with the Buffalo Soldier's history during World War II - so I decided to check the book out over at AMAZON and learned a bit more - in particular the first "review" came from a young American that was there when the incidents in this story - happened and it really got me interested in the film - even more so.
After THE INSIDE MAN, I think Spike got all of our attention again - let's see how strong his filmmaking is...
Click here to see THE MIRACLE AT ST ANNA Trailer!

I haven't seen all his films by a long shot, just a handful of the early ones back when my Dad had HBO - but I enjoyed the ones I've seen. I don't let an artist's public persona bother me as long as I like the work. You know, unless they're a Nazi or something. Naw, Wagner was still a hell of a composer...

FUCK U, what u got against Spike?
He has made some of the best movies that are true to what happens in life, I think your scared of what he does, Well i know this movie looks good and I'll be there first day it opens

Uh, no, actually he doesn't, Harry, so speak for yourself. If you want to kiss Lee's ass for some reason, hoping for a web interview or whatever, that's fine, that's your business -- just don't assume the rest of us agree with you. Frankly, I didn't think INSIDE MAN was good at all, and I lost all interest in MIRACLE when Lee decided he'd use Cannes as a platform to attack Eastwood and his WWII films just to draw attention to his sorry ass. Desperate for attention, Spike? Too stupid to understand the guys who raised the flag at Iwo Jima weren't black and Eastwood was just recreating a historic moment on film?<p>Frankly, I sometimes get tired of the bullshit argument that we're always supposed to "separate the person from the product." Personally, I get tired of that shit. Roman Polanski is a cock who raped an underaged girl and it would be a cold day in hell before I'd ever give him any money. And for that matter Spike Lee is a fucking egotistical ass. I think he's a mediocre director and his movies tend to be heavy-handed pretentious shit too. There, I said it!

Fuck u too, do you even know why Lee approach Eastwood?
Lee got sick of Hollywood never showing the true story's they film, leaving out the parts Black people play in the building of this nation...
Eastwood tried to say no black people was in that part of the war he filmed, But Eastwood lied to every one, cause there was a black man along side those other white soldiers that lift that flag on that mountain, but Eastwood, Hollywood, and these lying history books would have you believe black soldiers wasn't there....WHY?
there are so many photos and books writen about the men that died in these wars and men that never got there metals that are still alive today, but there are also a group of so call elite folks out there that don't want these things to be acknowledged .....I'm so tire of the film industries, they really do suck with there prejudices
Go SPIKE GO!!!!!!!! DAMMIT

Is it white guilt? I admit, he's done some solid work: Do The Right Thing, Jungle Fever, 25th Hour. He's also done some shit: Malcom X (absolutely bastardized it). Mo Betta Blues. Girl 6. Inside Man was "OK" if you're not into story structure or common sense. But, it did have Denzel as a leading man who didn't take orders from any honkey, so we are all enriched now and better people for that I guess.
What is truly amazing is how he keeps putting loud scores over his actors when they speak, and how he keeps putting his bug-eyed mug to ensure distraction in all his films.
I'm glad Clint told him to shut his fucking face. Hey, Spike: NO ONE OWES YOU SHIT. I may or may not check out your new flick on DVD (a burnt copy, not paying for it), and if it's good, then so be it. But you are owed NOTHING. And if Obama wins (and I'm voting for him), you will REALLY be owed nothing.

The difference between Spike Lee and an actual talented filmmaker? The former has to act like an ass to draw attention to his films. The latter lets their film draw the audience. Lee is an overrated hack in my eyes and I'd kick his ass if he weren't the size of a five year old.

I don't think Spike's racist. He's pushing as hard as he can with what he's got. But Clint also could have taken the high road, and let it be just another criticism. The moment he responded, it became a much larger issue.

I like Spike's movie but the guy is either an asshole or fucking stupid. He complained that there were no black people in Flags of our Fathers. Well none of the soldiers who raised the flag were black so what the fuck did he want, one in the back ground? And Letters from Iwo Jima was from the Japanese point of view... Don't think they had black soldiers. So he's either stupid or an ass hole. Probably an ass hole. Clint who is old as fuck and doesn't give a shit anymore told him to shut up which he really should. His movies should speak for themselves. Now I will say this movie looks promising. Except I'd like someone to complain that all the Nazi's are white and that it's racist. There should be at least one black nazi just to balance it all out. Just like Spike wanted in Clint's WW2 movies.

That's how some of you come across. As if Spike Lee would never respond to remarks such as the ones he laid out against Clint. I actually lost respect for Spike when he claimed he didn't call Clint a racist, that he was just "bringing up the question." Good for Clint for not bowing down to that little turd like so many others do.

fuck, that took a while. damm thing didn't work. This movie looks awesome. I'm not even really a fan of Lee's. Inside man was ok. nothing to write home about but watchable. Didn't realize it was a black movie. I thought it was a lesbian movie.

...explains why this issue was on his mind regarding his comments, and why he chose to make this film to document the contribution of blacks during WWII. I do think it was somewhat unfair to only call out Clint with regards to his war films since its Hollywood as a whole that has painted a picture that blacks played no part in WWII, but I think the press played the comments up to stimulate drama.

I'm white. Do I disagree with Spike sometimes? Yes. Do his films move me? Sometimes. When he's on he's on. When he's not, it's like a hammer to the head. What does black and white have to do with any of it?

So he's bitching to Eastwood about there being no black soldiers in his movies, but from what I saw in the trailer, where the hell are the white soldiers? Yeah, I'm sure Lee's got them peppered in here and there but if we're judging books (read: trailers) by their cover...

He's documenting the experience of the black soldiers in WWII. He makes no bones about the fact that this is about the black troups of soldiers (the Buffalo soldiers), not about Americans as a while fighting WWII. Thats the difference - all other WWII films claim to be documenting the American fight in WWII while omitting blacks from that picture in their document of history. He's telling the story that all other WWII films have omitted.

Spike Lee was forced to go to Italy for his financing because no one wants to work with a jerk. And the "Miracle" script was a mess, to say the least. Trailer looks good, but don't be expecting any masterpiece.

To ghunz and others: I said "FUCK SPIKE LEE" just like I would say "FUCK THE KKK" or any other racist groups or individuals. Don't agree that Spike's a racist? Too bad. I have a policy of not giving money to people that hate me.

" sometimes get tired of the bullshit argument that we're always supposed to "separate the person from the product." <p> So, you claim to be boycotting Spike Lee because of his views, and Roman Polanski because he had sex with an underage girl because that would be condoning their actions...if you really are true to this philosophy, there's not much for you to watch. Hollywood is a cesspool of corruption and extreme views. If you only watch movies if all players involved share your views and ethics, you can't be watching much at all.

As a filmmaker he's pretty good, and this film looks interesting, but as an individual he's a complete wanker.<p>His attack on Clint was an incredibly cheap shot, and factually incorrect, as there were some shots of black guys in "Flags of Our Fathers", in the background. You know why they were in the background? Because black soldiers made up less than one percent of the soldiers who fought in the battle of Iwo Jima, and "Flags of Our Fathers" wasn't about that tiny minority. Spike Lee attacked Clint to garner publicity for his new film, anyone who believes otherwise is incredibly naive.<p>Hell, you can't win with that runt, if a white director makes a film about black people he attacks them (including Clint for "Bird").

This movie looks great & will do nicely. Notice how Spike says something about these movies a few years AFTER their release and close to his movie's opening? Do you think he wanted publicity more than a beef with Eastwood? C'mon guys, see the truth, this is a business, and last time I checked, there's no such thing as bad publicity, especially if it's a few words exchanged.

I admit straight up, I have not seen Clint's movies, but the point everyone seems to be missing is that Spike wasn't asking for Clint to change history by changing the race of real people, he was asking that the film acknowledge that there were people of other races present at the events in Clint's films. What kills me is that when asked for fairness, many White folks, like most on this TB cry "political correctness" and "reverse racism." I really don't understand.
Honestly, I believe Clint is like most White folks -- when focused on telling Black stories he can be very inclusive and thoughtful ("Bird"), but otherwise Black folks do not factor into their lives or vision of the world (i.e. "Flags of our Fathers" and 90% of most American films). I don't think that's racist, but it is culturally dismissive and comes from a place of privilege. It's also REALLY fucking annoying, especially when people defend it.
The worst part is, most folks rely on films to educate them about history, and when films like "Saving Private Ryan" and "Flags" become the visual truth of these events, average folks never learn the actual truth. And the truth is, my wife's grandfather fought in WWII, and so did millions of others old Black men. The resulting feeling we (Black folks) get is that we are not considered Americans and therefore have to wait for one of the 10 Black directors in Hollywood to make a film that acknowledges us -- and when they do, they get shit about it from assholes calling them racists.

I'm not from the us so i don't give a shit but a) there are black actors in the periphery at the beginning of flags b)this is appropriate as of the 110,000 yanks that fought there 900 were black and most of them had the role of carrying ammo. C) one of the main characters is a native american.
d) as an Aussie I get the whole 'left out of history' thing. A lot of my family fought and died in battles that time and time again you see americans save the day at. Like El Alamain for example. What the fuck is up with that? Or new Guinea were they showed up too late and did sweet fuck all. sigh. Just always expect American ratings to top actual history, that's all. Flags is one of the few that is alright (no aussies there)

First of all I am neither white nor black. I am Latino/Hispanic or whatever else we're supposed to call ourselves; it's confusing. That being said I never understood why people were so into his movies. Do the Right Thing was his first big deal and I found it to be preachy and overrated. I hate being preached to when I watch movies. I don't consider myself racist in any way. I grew up with friends of every color of the rainbow. (I'm also not homophobic.) I just find his movies unwatchable and could never figure out what Kevin Smith saw in them. I have also seen Malcolm X (which could have been shorter), Inside Man and 25th Hour. Denzel is good in anything. He's not just a good black actor he's a good actor. Period. Spike Lee's best movie is The Original Kings of Comedy. It's the only one I can stomach.

Children, please! Spike Lee making inflammatory remarks? Oh, the shock of it all? Where have all you guys been? His comments about Mr. Eastwood are off base, true, but he is still on the more talented filmmakers America has to offer. Though I would argue, that Clint has become more the rebel in recent years. "Inside Man" is a clever mainstream genre thriller, aided heavily by two knockout lead performances and by Lee's authorial flourishes, coupled certain New York intensity. But it is still a bid for mainstream success. On the other hand, "Flags of Our Fathers" subversively undercuts traditional notions of heroism by suggesting that the men who fought at Iwo Jima were brave, ordinary men who went through hell, who, in turn, want to be left the hell alone to forget the horrors they had witnessed. Ballsy shit from a guy who stumped for Nixon, I say. Anyway, "Flags of Our Fathers"/"Letters From Iwo Jima" is an anti-war epic masterpiece that cemented Clint Eastwood as, alongside Spike Lee, as one of the greatest filmmakers working today. It's sad that, after making "When the Levees Broke", a damning haunting portrait of people who lost everything, the man has to talk smack. "Miracle at Santa Ana" looks like it will explode across the screen with a vibrant potency. I'm just hoping it'll kick my ass to tide me over until "Valkyrie" comes out.

Hey Chipps,
Thanks for the info. Like I said, never saw either of Clint's films so if what you say is true than I don't really have a problem with the films themselves, but this knee-jerk reaction to say "Spike is a racist" because he asked for inclusion seems a bit stupid.
BTW, that sucks about the Aussie-neglect in films -- I feel your pain.

For the most part, I really like Spike Lee's films. "Do The Right Thing", "She's Gotta Have It", "Jungle Fever" and "Malcolm X" are all excellent films, as are the docs "Four Little Girls" and "When the Levees Broke". That is the Spike Lee I support. The Spike Lee I *don't* support is the one that screams racism about another film or filmmaker when he has a movie coming out. I mean seriously Spike, you need to attack a nearly two-year old war now? And one that directed by a person who is respected and liked pretty much by everyone in Hollywood? Clint is right: you should shut your fucking gob. And to top it all off, Spike at the recent NBA Playoff was just as idiotic. Do us favor Spike, shut the fuck up and just focus on making movies. NO ONE cares what you have to say outside of what you project on a film screen.

but I agree that pretty much every American war movie, particularly from the old days has someone like john wayne heroically running over the top. My understanding (and I could be wrong) was that there were major limitations for African Americans to make it to the front as infantry in the first place. I think this is the real racism. As said above less than one percent of the americans at iwo jima were black and most of those were held back from the fighting (though it got rough so i think they ended up involved). The real racism is that the US was holding them back and considered them substandard fighters (which they weren't)

Read the comments again. I never said Spike Lee was a racist because he "asked for inclusion". He has a history of racist behavior going back at least 2 decades, long before this latest flap with Clint Eastwood.

I haven't seen Inside Man or 25th Hour, but up until that point, I'd never seen a film of his that wouldn't have been better had the last 5-10 minutes been cut. P.S. No big words, please, I'm a simple NAzi.

And if you've been around since the '80s, your ass should be too. Don't act like it's a shock to hear him say stuff like that, because it ain't. And as retarded as he can be socially, all of his movies have been works of art, you can't deny this.

Hey Deagle,
I wasn't responding to your posts, just the overall vibe that Spike should "shut his mouth" because he called out another director on historical accuracy. I don't think anyone in this TB is arguing that historically, America has underserved racial, sexual, religious minorities in film, tv, etc. Spike called someone out for it. Now perhaps it seems like a ploy, but I don't think so. He was at Cannes, a big place to discuss film, and he was probably talking about WHY he made the film -- which I can pretty much guess was for two reasons: 1. Tell a great story and 2. Begin to fill the void left by directors like Speilberg and Eastwood. Now, you can fault Lee for not studying every frame of "Flags" to look for Black soldiers in the background, but I believe the overall sentiment -- that unless put in the hands of a Black director, Black achievements on film will be continually underserved -- still rings true. Perhaps most folks don't like to be reminded of this constant inequity, but as someone on the other side of it, it's refreshing when someone calls it out - even if its to the detriment of a director like Clint Eastwood.
I think most people believe racism only exists along side pitch forks, lynch ropes and snarling dogs. Sometimes racism (or any other -ism) can be achieved by simply ignoring someone else's cultural significance. Ask any woman, gay person, Native American, muslim, etc.

`Honestly, I believe Clint is like most White folks -- when focused on telling Black stories he can be very inclusive and thoughtful ("Bird"), but otherwise Black folks do not factor into their lives or vision of the world (i.e. "Flags of our Fathers" and 90% of most American films).' Just so you know, Morgan Freeman -- a black man -- is front and center in two of Eastwood's best films: Unforgiven and Million Dollar Baby. While these aren't "black stories" per se, I'd say Freeman's inclusion counts for something.

how did the robbers make that tiny room(for owen to hide) behind that cabinet? would that push the cabinet forward in the storage room, and thus EASILY NOTICABLE???
<p>
i hate it when a movie thinks it's too smart by treating the audience like morons.

It's laughable and absurd to throw around the term "racist" in regards to Mr. Lee. Just as I would not call Mr. Eastwood a racist. What exactly has Spike said or done that is "racist" or "prejudice"? Seriously. And no knee-jerk reactions because you feel white people, as a whole, have been institutionally and legally discriminated against for centuries.

Yes, folks like Morgan Freeman, Denzel, Will Smith, etc have proven to be big success and aren't always attached to "black" projects. I would never submit that Eastwood or any other director doesn't include Black actors in their films but that's a different argument. Telling compelling stories about African Americans, whether historical or not, is not on Hollywood's agenda. I applaud Eastwood for telling the story of Charlie Parker and I'm glad he puts a fine actor like Freeman in his films. But notice that Freeman is the ONLY Black man we see in Forgiven. Last I checked, Black people were a HUGE part of the American landscape during the Old West. Unfortunately we have to deal with trifles like "Posse" (which is over 15 years old now) to see us represented. Of course, if Spike makes a Western he'll be told to shut up and stop whining because Morgan Freeman was in Unforgiven.
OK, I seriously have to get off the computer its Saturday and I'm geeking out on a website. Good day gentlemen.

and it's ridiculous. i feel like people still think spike lee IS the mars blackmon character from 20 years ago. you gotta realize that spike knew the studios would never promote his films so he made himself larger than life to get the publicity that the studios would never fork over to his films. and when warner brothers spends more in the same year on producing and promoting dan akroyd's forgettable Nothing But Trouble than they do the epic classic Malcolm X, the man is clearly in the right for having to take matters into his own hands. but like i said, that was almost 20 years ago. maybe he was controversial to white mainstream audiences in the past, but not anymore. get over it.

I had NO IDEA black Americans fought in WW2! Wow! This was just a publicity stunt. Any tool has heard of the Tuskeegee airmen and even Michael-Fucking-Bay put Dorie Miller in his WW2 Blowup movie, "Pearl Harbor". Is there anyone that actually thinks that the entire African-American population of the USA just sat at home while WW2 was going on.
Seriously?

Inside Man got my attention again and this movie looks pretty good. I'll see it. Spike Lee is all right, I guess. His crack against Clint Eastwood has validity. Clint is just an old twat who doesn't care to sit down and have a conversation about his irresponisble filmmaking. He basically walks around like, "I'M CLINT EASTWOOD, BITCH!" In this day and age he should know better than to make a racially polarized film. It's just not sexy.

He claims that his movie was about the four guys who raised the flag. so since those guys weren't black, there were no blacks in the movies. However, when i watched that movie, i saw way more than just those 4 guys. i saw both of the films about iwo jima and they showed very broad large scale depictions with many shots in other parts of the battle. so either eastwood is being purposefully deceitful, or he didn't do his research. either way, he got that aspect of the story wrong, and it's a shame that these men, many who are still alive today, time and time again get left out of history. imagine being one of those men who were there and going to see this film about your history and not seeing a single black face even as an extra. its a shame. my grandfather was an MP in the navy. he was in Europe during the war, but you would never know that there were black MPs during that time if we had to take hollywood movies as our primary source of history, which sadly many people do. anyway, sorry for the long post, but i just have to say that there is nothing wrong with a filmmaker of Spike Lee's caliber criticizing another FILM. It was Eastwood who turned it into a personal attack.

`Telling compelling stories about African Americans, whether historical or not, is not on Hollywood's agenda.' What about "The Hurricane," "Ali," "Ray," "The Pursuit of Happyness" -- all relatively recent, successful movies that told compelling stories about African Americans? Not to mention 1989's "Glory," which could be the greatest Civil War movie ever made. (It's certainly my favorite.)

if Eastwood portrayed the african american soldier in the way the one poster put it...'carrying ammo for his fellow white soldiers'...if Eastwood portrayed that aspect he would have been described as a narrow minded director and blasted throughout all media outlets. jumho

I may not be the authority on Spike Lee but the ending to Do the Right Thing was extremely racist. Sal, the man who has been a staple in the community is the bad guy because he didn't put up with ignorant fucking street thugs demanding a picture on the wall? SO,Mookie decides he is going to "do the right thing" and burn down the source of his income. Smart - now Mookie is on welfare living off the government because he was too stupid to not get involved with the mob mentality. For fucking shame!

I hope the people at AICN is proud of the types of filth it attracts. Thanks allot Harry for the "as a film maker" line with all its not so subtle implications. Coward rat fuck that you've shown yourself to be here.
Seems to me some of the most innovative and out of the box directors like Spike Lee continue to get bashed around here by sewer rat bastards. How can you respect film and its POWER to influence and shape culture and NOT be FOR Spike Lee when he criticizes ANYONE for not portraying REALITY.
Seriously fuck you status quo mother frakkers. Burn in hell.

some errors but still... try to hear what I'm saying if you can. Film is a powerful medium and I for one think Spike deserves much praise for standing up and commenting about an inaccurate portrayal of the battle of Iwo Jima. Yeah that's right, YOU might not even get this because you don't have a freaking clue so FUCK YOU. Afterall, it's not until a guy runs for President that too many people even see that RACISM is real. Do you have to be a racist to not cast blacks in a movie? No! But just think about how movies impact people... ALL people and then think about people like Spike Lee who says "Hey, wtf? Let's show America.. REAL America and not this lame whitified crap PARTICULARLY in historical films BECAUSE they do shape minds so much. So again. To hell with all you SEWER RAT GARBAGE.

he's a freaking ancient old man and for a film maker of his age and stature to be doing this kind of CRAP is a particular TRAVESTY and OUTRAGE and if you cannot see that then again... SCREW YOU, you PIECE OF SHIT NO IT ALL FUCKTARD

Spike wants to be Scorsese but has a big sack of steaming Oliver Stone somewhere inside of him. He beats you over the head over and over and over. We're not stupid, Spike, we can see what you're trying to do, man. This is not the first movie we've ever seen. And why does everyone think Inside Man is awesome? It pissed me off to no end! It promised at the beginning to be a hardass movie a la Dog Day Afternoon and then devolved into pussy-assed con man bullshit a la Ocean's Eleven. Heaven forbid we don't like a criminal. A criminal who won't even kill anyone. What a lame, cheesy movie. Spike CAN be a good filmmaker. Just see Do the Right Thing, When The Levees Broke and 25th Hour to see him kick some ass. He fucked up Richard Price's Clockers but that was still a pretty decent movie. Spike simply needs to learn that we aren't stupid and we aren't so fickle. If we can handle Tony Soprano, we can handle Clive Owen shooting a couple people.

Oh I see, so if Spike Lee criticizes a white director he must prove himself in your eyes to be an equal opportunity critic? It doesn't work that way. You want to somehow slant this to suggest "Spike Lee is a racist" because he doesnt (as far as either of us know) speak out against black film makers who make "exploitation" films or remakes of "exploitative" (even when the remakes themselves are NOT exploitative in the "black-sploitation" sense, then be my guest but I think you're on incredibly thin ice.

If I criticized only black films and black film makers one could easily perceive me as a racist. Perception is reality like it or not.
Spike has been making movies for 20 years (1989 the number, another summer, get down to the sound of the funky drummer)and I have never heard him criticize another black director. Mario Van Peebles is another one who is ripe for some of Spike's shit talk.
I judge a film on it's merits, not it's inclusion of a certain race. I accept that they are telling a story about this specific group of people and a specific moment in time. If Spike did the same he might enjoy the stories that are being told.

scanning these comments all i see is people bashing spike lee with nothing to back it up. I've read nearly no comments on this preview. that's fucked up. If you are going to bash spike lee for making 'black' movies are you going to bash speilberg for making 'white family' movies or 'jewish' movies? This movie looks gorgeous. looks like a breakthrough for spike. not only is it a positive black movie, but it's a movie about black people interacting with THE WORLD. that this place is bigger and more complicated and diverse than the urban street divisions we put on ourselves.if you hadn't told me this was a spike lee joint i would have thought it was speilberg or ridley scoot, only without the use of visual crutches like wacky color filtering or saving private ryan shaky cam- which spike has boldy chose to not use- in a sea of war movies that have swiped that look ever since.

The problem here is that you, and others in this talkback complaining about Eastwood, are just wrong on the facts. There were 900 black men on Iwo Jima out of 120,000 soldiers. Eastwood's depiction WAS REALITY. Yes, the black experience in WWII has been minimized for decades; that is a just complaint. But I can't understand why on Earth we're picking on Eastwood, who told a very specific story about raising the flag at Iwo Jima and told it accurately. Is it that you guys are of the mistaken belief that there were a lot of blacks at Iwo Jima and thus they were left out? There just weren't. And I'm black, so I don't want to hear any of this "you just don't understand because you're white" shit. And I'm also tired of white people turning everything into racism, out of white guilt, in an attempt to appease me and those like me. As if we're so grateful that you exaggerate perceived racism and are "sticking up" for us. Frankly I would be far more offended if Eastwood had shoehorned in a group of black soldiers in an attempt to appease me (which happens all the time in film). Do you guys really think I'm sitting in the audience when a film cuts to the token group of black soldiers/doctors/astronauts and thinking "Wow I feel so included"? It's actually insulting most of the time. Spike Lee lost all credibility and moral high ground in this argument as soon as he said the "We aren't on a plantation" bit.

No blind hate. Spike is just getting back what he puts out into the world.
If Spike would let his films talk for themselves people might go to the theater and see one of his films.
But to your point, the film does look surprisingly good. IF he can keep his cake hole shut I might go see this.

Looks like an interesting film. I don't mind Spike trying to introduce us to the hero black soldiers who fought in world war II. Maybe they haven't received the adoration in films and other media that white soldiers have. Maybe Spike can do that without re-writing history or being unethical with the truth. I liked Inside Man and will be seeing this for sure in the fall... It's shaping up to be a good fall season for movies.

Are you a filmmaker that has lost relevancy? Enter the WWII Film Rehab Program! Current participants include Spike Lee and Quentin Tarantino. Next year? Diablo Cody's WWII epic about smart, sassy girls... In World War II!!!!!

directors, producers etc and their opinions are all left at the door.let directors bicker and battle with each other. i don't see why i need to spend any amount of my life picking sides in the arguements of opinionated artists. sometimes you just have to enjoy the work and not pay attention to the convoluted mind that created it.<P> if joe schmoe the racist albino made a good movie i wanted to see, i'd see it. We hang too much on a director's name and look where it's gotten us. we freak out every time S'berg or Lucas make a misstep. giving a shit about the personal lives of directors is as lame as playing fantasy football. just sit there and enjoy the show and what the players do.

How do you think Spike would like this?
Scene: (Fierce battle)[men run for cover as they asscend the hill, shells exploding, one soldier trakes a head shot the brain matter covering his friends face]
Cut Away....
Scene: (Ammo Dump/Latrine facilities)[close up of African American soldier diggin latrine in the sweltering heat, Japanese mortars land 200yrds away sending the soldier diving for cover, his friend shouts to him]
cut away....
Scene:(Several african american soldiers huddled against new latrine building, they are shooting dice and drinking home made hooch)
Soldier 1: Get your ass ova here Jackson..these mutha fuckas cleaned me out and you gots to front me a paycheck..I knows I'm coming flush next roll...
Jackson: (crouching in foxhole)
Heeeeeellllll No,,I ain't comin out dis here hole till them crackers and that Chief gets done on than muthafuckin hill.
Cut away back to battle scene.
There ya go Spike...Now I suppse you'll bitch about why there ain't no brothers on the moon in Apollo 13.

For those of you who claim the point of that movie was that Spike was claiming the blacks who destroyed the shop were in the right, I think you're reading that movie your own way, because thats definitely not what I got out of the movie, and that wasn't the "right thing" the movie talked about. That scene represented the madness of it all, and how all those people - the blacks, italians, the Korean grocers, the Puerto Ricans - they were all in it together, and in the end, it was up to all of them to either be part of the madness and fuel it, or part of the rational voices to prevent that, and to realize that they were all in one boat together in that one neighbourhood during that hot New York summer. <p> They all ended up losing as tensions escalated and the madness heightened to an extreme, and rational voices were drowned out by the madness. Talkbacks are often the same way.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1813981,00.html
read that time article.
I don't recall any blacks in Saving Private Ryan either but maybe it's just a faulty memory. Over 1 million African Americans fought during WWII but they are basically "cleansed" from any war film because... well because why exactly is THE QUESTION.
I think Spike Lee is 100% in his right mind to be raising this issue and thanks to him frankly that Time article got written at all.
What really disappoints most however is Eastwoods kneejerk seemingly un-contemplative remark. Clint Eastwood strikes me as someone who lives in a bubble and who doesn't want that bubble to be burst. I don't think anyone is calling Eastwood a racist. Morgan Freeman starred with him in Unforgiven after all. However, there is now a popular sense in some communities that Clint is still thinking in the old ways when it comes to making movies. You can say "well that's just the way it has to be" to which I say, well FUCK YOU and your films then.

...nuff said about that.
Oh, and "Do the Right Thing" is a one-sided, anarchic piece of trash that seems to have inspired some people to use violence toward a particular race as the "right thing." I agree with some above that the movie showed white people as the enemy, when in fact both sides were doing right and wrong. He definitely shows favoritism in his 'argument.'

Do ya think SPike will bitch about that too?
Spike Lee is overrated, his movies are unwatchable, and his view of history and society is as distorted and twisted as any backwoods Grand Wizard.
Really Spike...be happy you at least you have a few "enlightend" white guilt addled East coasters and the members of the Nation of Islam who see your movies; otherwise you wouldn't be courtside at those Knicks games, but rather hawking peanuts and beer.

I think you're missing the point. Spike Lee is doing something that the vast majority of white people HATE and that is to take a social stand on a RACIAL matter. Frankly if you're in the minority, there's no time when taking a social stand is NOT unwarranted in many people's views. If you want CHANGE you're going to have to put your opinions and your reputation and sometimes your livelihood and sometimes more OUT THERE for it to happen.
When white people go to the grocery store they expect to stand there with aisle upon aisle of pretty young blonds staring at them from the covers of magazines. When you see a black person its either someone famous in trouble or some ubar black person like Obama or Oprah. That's just the STATUS QUO. Many white people hate it when black people rail against such things but the fact is, they lack empathy at the very least.
Check it out next time you're in line at the supermarket. Fucking insanity. Check it out when you watch films. It's fucking insanity there too. You all know wtf i'm talking about.

Spike Lee is making allot of white people RICH. So much for Spike Lee being a racist. More white people have made money off of Spike Lee films than black folk. How exactly is Spike Lee oppressing white people again?

...if this were Britain in 1945. <p> "Gandhi, you racist!!! How dare you challenge British rule you racist! Why do you hate white people so much, Gandhi?!! Causing trouble with your hunger strikes and protests - no better than the KKK and the grand wizard!!!"

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? REWRITE HISTORY? DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND BLACK PEOPLE WAS IN THAT WAR TOO AND A BLACK MAN HELP HUT THAT FLAG ON THE MOUNTAIN TOP TOO? READ A DAMN BOOK OR RESEARCH YOUR HIS-STORY BEFORE YOU TYPE!!!!!!!!

you're so full of shit. You wasted all those letters to argue something nobody is even arguing including Spike Lee. Spike Lee never said "why didn't Clint have a black man helping to dig in the flag."
Do i really need to explain this any further? Are you and Clint both this stupid or just trying to shift the focus of the debate?

Are you for real? Spike hates white people?
If anything WHITE PEOPLE HATE SPIKE, he's to close to telling the truth WHITE PEOPLE LOVE TO DENIE, Like, STEALING AMERICA, SLAVORY, BLACK PEOPLE FIGHTING IN EVERY WAR THIS COUNTRY HAS HAD AND STILL GET TREAD LIKE THERE LESS THEN HUMAN, OR NOT EVEN ACKNOWLEDGE.
YOU CAN SEE IT ON THIS TALK BACK, WHITE PEOPLE DON'T NEVER LIKE FEELING THAT THEY DONE WRONG OR WON"T EVEN ACCEPT THAT THERE NOT FAIR IN MOST CASES TO FOLKS OUT SIDE THERE SKIN COLOR.....
I HOPE SPIKE AND ANY OTHER PERSON THAT MAKES WHITE PEOPLE UNCOMFORTABLE CONTINUE TO DO WHAT THEY DO< CAUSE THIS IS NOT A WHITE WORLD, OTHER PEOPLE LIVE HERE TOO
DAMMIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i may not like every spike joint, but his films all look different than most of the shit turned out by hollywood...and i could care less if he hates me, or if he attacked heston (who, because of alzheimers, turned into a raving loon in his later years)

ChocolateReign, well if this is all just a matter of Spike Lee being MISTAKEN then maybe everybody OWES EVERYBODY an APOLOGY. But here is what Spike said and to which my memory (possibly faulty) concurs
"Clint Eastwood made two films about Iwo Jima that ran for more than four hours total, and there was not one Negro actor on the screen... In his version of Iwo Jima, Negro soldiers did not exist."

You're a fucking racist piece of shit. Fuck you and fuck Spike Lee's no talent ass. You're both big fucking babies. Clint Eastwood has more ability and talent in the tip of his cock than Spike Lee has in his whole whiny, racist, shriveled body. We should just give black people money, period, because it's so hard to be black. FUCK YOU.

You miss the hole point of Do the right thing, the movie was about every body doing the WRONG THING, not the right thing, except for Hal, he stayed in the community cause it was a good community and tried to help his sons see that, just like in every community there are a few bad seeds that don't think, well that's what you had here....The movie was about choses people make and are they the right "THING" or the wrong?
It's not about white hate from black people, it's about people taking the time to understand each other...... I suggest you take time out of you busy day to re watch this film again with an OPEN MIND THIS TIME

Eastwood comes from a different generation. He didn't grow up in a multicultural society. So his films often reflect the reality of his day. Black were often ignored when it came to historical events. So it's not Clints fault if he wasn't exposed to Black History. That's why we have Black History month. Because so much of the Blacks accomplishments were ignored so that's why we've dedicated a month to it. But I can't wait for the day until History is History, no matter what Color you were. I have a Dream!

and ashamed that so many of you come out of the woodwork only for the chance to bash a black filmmaker anonymously.<p>the collection of bile being spewed here is really astounding. do the right thing was anarchic and encouraged black people to burn everything down? good god, that's like saying raiders of the lost ark encouraged opening arks because they opened an ark. beyond fucking stupid.<p>and what's most amazing to me is that while EVERYONE here (except anchorite, which is interesting) that bashed Spike Lee, had to mention race. (eloquently calling him a Black Hack was a good example). so if you see Spike Lee not as a filmmaker, but simply a BLACK filmmaker, it is YOU who is reducing this and over-simplifying everything.<p>if you argue the merits of Lee's argument about Eastwood's films, fine. but you have to admit, that anyone calling Spike Lee "son" dismissively, and telling him to shut his mouth, after he simply made a comment about his film, is asking for trouble. how is Clint calling a grown man, and an award winning filmmaker "son" more or less racist, or more or less ridiculous, than Spike Lee responding about not being on a plantation?<p>face it, there is an element of hating the "other", which is veiled racism, in almost EVERY anti-Lee post on here. he is a loud black voice in film, and if you don't like it, fine. but for a long time there were virtually NO black voices in film. I'd say the man has earned the right to speak.<p>and just a side note, do you notice how often we call black actors and directors simply by their first name, whereas we almost never do it with white actors and directors? Spike, Denzel, Tyrese (ok, that last one was a joke). but you don't hear us talk about Steven, George, Terry, Harrison, Brad, etc. without their last names...but hey, at least that's a subtle thing. anonymous moron talkbackers in here have no such qualms about being overtly racist and ignorant.

Really good post. I suspect people are going to pounce of the "first name" bit and try to prove it wrong and thereby paint the rest of your argument as "false" but that would be incorrect but not necessarily ineffective. Sadly.
You know, when it comes to arguing these sorts of things with strangers it may not seem to work because many of the most vocal opponents are too proud to change their minds but consider all of the lurkers who read and are potentially swayed.

I meant more anonymous in the sense that every time issues of race pop up on AICN, there are a SHITLOAD of talkbackers that don't post much of anything anywhere, yet somehow find their voice when they get to bash a black filmmaker.<p>or, you know, call him stupid, as you just implied. thinking that anyone you disagree with must be an idiot, that's the warm chewy center of a prejudice cookie. mmm, my awkward metaphor is making me hungry!

It's not been proved. I could post a link to a screenshot of Clint Eastwood sucking a cock and that wouldn't prove he's gay. Tell me what time in which of the two films to look and I will confirm that there are black actors in either film at those respective times.

Since you're mentally incapable of processing the basic premise of my argument, let my simplify it for you. Most things have to be explained to Conservatives like they're 3 year olds so it's not surprising that you've failed to comprehend my statement. I was simply conveying the fact the Clint Eastwood grew up in a segregated society. And those who're by- products of segregated societies tend to see reality through the lens of their subjective experiences. So that's why he only included White Actors, because he's telling the story from his subjective perspective. Not a universal perspective.

It Looks like The lil Chocalte WOUNDER IS TROWING A HISSY FIT, WAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!
Don't be mad Lil CHOCOLATE NUTS MUNCH, JUST GIVE YOUR DADDY A HUG, HE MISS HOW YOU USE TO HUG HIM WITH YOUR FACE BY HIS BALLS, CUDDLING IN HIS WARM CROTCH.....There's is a place for people like you, it's called THE WHITE HOUSE.....

As a white man, who has white friends who complain day in and day out about "Black racism" then tell off color jokes and talk like "B" level rappers, I'm just sick of white people not having a clue about race and class and all this shit. Spike Lee is a great filmmaker. Eastwood was way over the top with his reaction. But then again white men are so damn reactionary and angry about people telling them they're racist, the fly off the handle the second someone wants to criticize them at all. Next time I hear it, I making the next idiot eat a copy of the complete works of Langston Hughes in front of me. White people, stop being so guilty and angry and stop thinking you've never done anything to anyone. Learn Chinese and get ready to learn what it really means to be a minority, you sad idiots!

meh. you're not a very logical person in the "reasoning" sense because saying one black person has more talent than another doesn't disprove your own (potential) racist views towards blacks in general. I'm not saying you are racist. Just pointing out the flaw in your argument.

Whenever the name of Spike Lee is brought up in my circle of friends. My White friends often harbor resentment whenever his name is mentioned, when I ask them, what's the most racist thing he's done, they're often lost for words. So that's why I asked the question because their hatred for Spike isn't clearly justified.

I have a black friend at work and he and I are pals. I never talk politics with him, but I'm sure that's because we agree on most things. I don't even think of him as Black. He's just like one of my white friends, except he's really dark.

Don't call me a racist! I once dated a black girl at school. I didn't tell my parents, but that's because it was never going to be serious. If you date someone who's not white, you can never ever be a racist.

People toss the R word around and make it out to mean "if you hate X people" then you are "-ist" with respect to those people. Or if you have friends with X people then no way can you be racist. It really has nothing to do with anything. Racism is about superiority or feelings thereof. If you think your culture is superior, your intelligence is superior, your outward appearance is superior, etc, etc, then THAT is racism.
Prejudice and Bigotry are two separate things and both are also seperate from racism.

You are right on the Donovan McNabb comment. As much as I hate Rush, he was commenting on the sports press and their want for a great black QB. That wasn't racism. It was an observation on how the press is infleunced by race. I do think Rush is a racist though, but not on that issue. The truth is, people never talk when racist issues come up, they either condemn or get outraged at the accusation. More discussion is healthy.
But I am sick at the fact that white men tend to think that just because they see Spike Lee as "troubling" that, that is some kind of consensus. It's not. I've never felt that Mr. Lee has done anything but make movies, a lot of good ones and a few great ones. Why so many of my white friends feel so attacked by him is really troubling.

my white friends feel so attacked by him as well, Nut shit dude, truth hurts in most cases, I have a white boss at work that want shake any one hands that is not white, and a black man called him out on it, lets just say his job has been hell ever sense, truth is spikes movies are more true to life then a lot of people want to give him credit for that's why I back him up, And yes Tim Story SUCK MAJOR GOAT SACKS That's why i don't surport him....

You make an interesting point. I wonder though if the rest of his target audience walked away with the same take.
I would love to live in a world where I could believe that this was Spike's attempt at social commentary on race relations but to quote Ice-T "Shit ain't like that".

Yeah, I'm white and I've had people say shit to me once in a great while, but come on! In this country, those little instances let me know what others deal with all the time. Being a white man, and one who police can immediately identify as college educated, by my accent and verbiage, has kept my ass out of a lot of trouble in my life. You give me any white dude and change his skin color and I will show you the most militant, angry black man ever on the planet, because he will immediately understand how his rights have been trampled. No one complains more about what everyone owes us, then white folk.

I think we have to step back sometimes and understand that a movie isn't necessarily a pretty little package that we've been groomed to expect.
I think the childhood fairy tales have screwed up our notion of what an ending _is_.

Hey, how interesting would it be to see a movie where something goes wrong with everyones DNA and all Black people wake up white and all White People wake up Black, Someone needs to be working on a script.....ASAP

Just my own personal opinion here...
Sorry to disagree with yo Harry or anyone else here who appreciates Spike Lee and his work.
Let me explain myself here first...
Wayyyyyyy back when Spike Lee was a new and upandcoming Film Producer and made such movies as "Do The Right Thing" and "Mo Better Blues and such...I was like "ehhhh, ok. His stuff just doesn't appeal to me" (Guess it was because I wasn't from the Streets or "Da Hood") which was ok and fine with me.
Then as he became more and more popular and his fanbase and hollywood backers allowed him to make more movies, he began to spout off a lot of Bullshit ("Black people can't be Racist" and "It's da Man keeping Black Folk down" and Black People aren't being portrayed properly in Hollywood films, etc, etc...) and playing the Race Card (Which he does practically everytime he is in front of the camera) I grew sick and tired of his crap.
Then things died down and he actually made a Movie I thought was incredibly well made "Inside Man" with Clive Owen...terrific stuff and I was then open to actually giving the guy a second shot at his films in the future...
Then comes the bullshit argument that he got into with Clint Eastwood just recently...again, he spouts off that "Black Folk aren't seen or don't get portrayed properly in Hollywood films and in World War II films like Eastwoods' "Letters From Iwo Jima"
Blah, blah, blahhh, blah.....
Again, playing the whole Race Card to anyone who listens to the shit coming out of his ignorant mouth.
I just refuse to give any time or effort to listening to this idiot or watching any of his so-called Movies on DVD
Again, just my humble opinion here, thats all

...when I get my history from other places than Hollywood? I thought it was "entertainment" that poured out of that place like a leaky sewer. Gee, there is this whole printed word, film and photographic media that has been stockpiled since 1945 that tells a broad perspective of WW2...and many in other countries as well! Some have even been TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH! I don't need anyone in Hollywood to tell me of the contributions Americans of every race and religion made to the effort of winning WW2.

Their is a reason someone like Spike Lee plays the race card and it's because he has a valid point. This is a racist country and always has been. He points it out, and people like you get angry because "he's playing the race card." Do you know that Obama door to door campaign volunteers in the south are getting things thrown at them, doors slammed in their face and regularly called "niggers." Spike Lee is one of the few African American directors working today and is, yes, (and rightfully so) upset about how racist Hollywood has been throughout it's history. Do your homework before you start making stupid comments. But if your arguement is to "look beyond our history and appreciate how good things are today," well then let's consider a few things first. Spike Lee is upset because there were absolutely no African Americans in Clint Eastwoods two Iwo Jima films. Interesting. How about Saving Private Ryan (this movie is only a decade old). How about nearly every WWII movie you've seen. Where are the black soldiers? Spike Lee, not unlike the thousands of black soldiers who fought in WWII are never represented in movies. To this day, black soldiers break down and cry in iterviews because they fought for their country, a fact which is rarely, if ever depicted in Hollywood. White soldiers ( during their R and R time) would seek out black soldiers and kick the shit out of them (for good times). Newsreel camerman would shut off their cameras anytime they would come across black soldiers. Blacks weren't offcially allowed to be part of combat platoons, instead relegated to ammo and supply regiments. However, because of a soldier shortage, they were often called upon to fight. Patton had entire black platoons, who by the way, were never trained properly, but fought and died bravely for their country. Duing Iwo Jima, ninety percent of the U.S. soldiers carrying ammo were black. Yet, because of the utter chaos, actually had to fight in combat along side their fellow white soldiers. When Casting Directors need hundreds,(thousands in Hollywood's hayday) of extras for these WWII films, I can guarantee that no black actors are cast or called upon to be extras, unless they're shown as cooks or potato peelers. Is this not racism? Not one black in Saving Private Ryan, not one in Flags of our Fathers. This isn't a coincidence. The casting notice for extras called for "white only actors." This is the WWII american audiences would be familiar with. One black solider, interviewed in a documenary cried after he saw Clint's film because he thought that he would finally see at least some blacks, even one in these movies. Not one. Sad. Spike Lee is rightfully upset about this.

I looked past his public demeanor and the many little, inconsequential controversies that accompany his every project for years. . . .until Bamboozled came out. I remember watching an interview with him and star Michael Rapaport in which they both insisted that "black-facing" continued in America in the form of N'Sync and Eminem. I kid you not. There's so many things wrong with that idea I don't really know where to start. Since then, I generally try to ignore him.

Spike wasn't claiming that Clint should change history and have a multi-racial group raise the flag but his problem was that you didn't see ONE black soldier even in the background of this supposedly historically accurate WWII portrayal when there were TONS of African-American soldiers fighting. Spike was like "Damn, at least have one brother laying dead on the ground or something!" My grandfather (a black man) was there on the invasion of Normandy. Spike can be an asshole at times but the dude makes a good point.

His name is similar to his. After all Stan has been around a lot longer than Spike.<p>Any person who sues for stupid shit like that regardless of skin color definitely is an idiot. Spike Lee talks too much. Maybe he should use his extra energy to produce better movies.

but all kidding aside, his last few movies were horrible. I saw Inside Man. It is easily the worst film I have ever seen in a theater that was actually supposed to be good. She Hate Me was idiotic. Completely idiotic.

Spike made some valid points about the history of WW2 films but I thought it was a bad tactic to single out Clint's movie. If you go back to Spike's original comment's, they were a personal attack to Clint. The first comment about not one black soldier in the film is false. There are black actors in the film. Than he said: "In his version the negro soldier did not exist. I have a different version." Instead of it being about Hollywood's past films it became about Eastwood specificly. Without saying it directly, he basically called Clint racist. He implied that Eastwood excluded blacks on purpose. And a lot of people,without doing thier own research, are beliving what Spike implied.
Some people are upset that Clint said: " A guy like that should shut his mouth." People are calling him: bitter old man, fossil. We should all be so luckly to live as long as him. I think Clint's respone was anger. I know black crewmembers that have worked with Eastwood from the 70's. He got a lot of blacks in the union by working on his films. He's always made an effort, on screen and behind the scenes, to include all nationalities. Clint's next film is about Nelson Mandella, staring Morgan Freeman. I respect Spike Lee and feel he had a valid crititcism. It's just that he would have been better served to keep it aimed at Hollywood and not aimed at an individual.

Yeah but im sure at some point in time, the buffalo soldiers interacted with a white person and as a white person myself, I am OWED that. And besides, there weren't black people raising the flag at Iwo Jima so why should accuracy matter? Put a white guy who acts black in the regimine. Im thinking Jamie Kennedy after his outstanding performance in Malibu's Most Wanted. As B-rad says, don't be hatin!

There were 698,911 African Americans in the Army at the end of June (1944) and 361,456 of them were serving overseas. Total Number of forces during WW2 - ARMY: 8,300,000; NAVY: 4,204,662; MARINES: 599,693; GRAND TOTAL: 13,104,355.

In my above post I didnt want to come across like he's an angel. He's definetly not. He's famous for having a bad temper in real life and can come across as rude. In his response about: "a guy like that should shut his face". That's just Clint being Clint, nothing race driven.

"Iwo Jima -- the Montford Point Marines. They received this title due to where they did their training. Only 1200 existed during this time, however due to personal racism many of them men stayed in the one unit. Although Franklin Roosevelt directed the de-segregation of the military, they didn't enforce it. this unit did land on almost every island in the Pacific and did play a huge part in the overall picture. Even after serving heroically during WWII, the Marines were still forced to train at a segregated camp. it was later closed on Sept 9 1949. the Montford point Marines were not used as main assault elements. they served as litter bearers, and as security for the rear elements. So it could only be logically said that blacks did fight along side whites on Iwo Jima, However they did not serve in the attack on Mount Suribachi. in fact the First Black Marine Corps Officer came from this unit. They're you go everyone the truth.; Source(s):
U.S. Marine Corps Special Operations, U.S. Army officer candidate. USMC a complete history-marine Corps Association."

You are racist. Racism is simply the ability to measure one person by a different standard than you measure another. That's what you are doing. And more over, your pretending to take the high moral ground, like you really care. I'm white and 90% of us white people talk a real good game, but I've lived it and so have you. You don't mind black folks, you even consider some of them your heroes, in movies and sports or music, but once one of them says anything that makes you uncomfortable, you "label" them and trouble maker and a "racist." See! See! he's racist. You can lie to everyone here and tell people of color whatever you want, but you and I know how you really are. You can't stand black people complaining. You think they have no right and you're sick of feeling like you did anything wrong. But since you never really cared about this country's history of oppression, why do you get to now act like you've had enough? The truth is, I've heard so many of you say really racist shit, when you think no one is watching, when you feel safe among white people. I don't even want to argue with you guys, I just want to tell all the non-white people, that you're all full of shit. I know, because I've seen it all my life, from the most tasteful white folks. So shut the hell up and get off your sanctimonious high horses.

i have witness this so call "voice of the negro community" stumble a lot when he debates political issues, coming off as an ignorant fool and not making a single, coherent and honest point,and his only exit strategy is calling everyone racist and sticking to the "white man is evil" stick..and people are stupid enough to not call him on it and bowing to his stupid remarks... and i think im the only one who thinks he is overrated as a director with only one good movie under his name, and that is the 25th hour.. starting an almost all white cast... go figure...

I'm too lazy to find the link, but the screen images have been floating around on the IMDB for a few weeks now. Granted these guys are on the support ships for probably a total of 10 seconds of screen time in Flags, but they're apparently there. I guess Spike must've been taking a piss break during that part. The Problem with the whole Spike-Eastwood feud is that Spike's comment was unture saying there were no black faces in Flags of Our Fathers (which a lot of idiots are taking as fact), but Clint's response of "Shut Your Face" wasn't the best comeback either. At this point who really cares how many Eskimo soldiers were in Flags of Our Fathers, it was a very average film at best. I like a lot of Eastwood's work, but that movie was kind of weak. And even though I think Spike shot his mouth off to get publicity, I'm still interested in seeing Miracle at St. Anna because even with some of the garbage he's made, he's also made a few classics.

Get off you're liberal, self-loathing soapbox. Racist is when 90% of blacks vote for Obama and claim that's natural but if 75% of whites vote for Hilary then that's racist. Get the stick out of your ass. The fact people can joke about racism is a far cry from a lynching and shows how far this country has come. The only people who believe racism still exists are the ones who keep looking for it. People like Rev. Wright and others who claim they are persecuted, oppressed, and being quietly murdered by whites are the real racists. Perpetuating bullshit simply to perpetuate it is ignorant. Honesty isn't racism. Stating fallacies for self-gain is. Also, stop trying to blanket label whites as racist. Last I checked, black media is more self-serving, hypocritical, and xenophobic. Before you try to make me feel guilty, accept the fact racism exists in the black community as well. At least then we can agree to some balance of equality in a twisted sense. And as to my comment on horny cons in a prison shower, I love Oz. I simply can't get the imagery out of my head!

Noble, and i agree with what you're saying but your opening sentence is compltetely not the definition of "Racism." We meausure people by different standards for a multitude of reasons, most having nothing do do with race. However, I do agree with most of what you have to say. I am multi-racial but can pass for white easily. The racist comments I've heard among white people who had no idea of my ethnicity, is mind-blowing. And I'm talking about upper class democrats as well who would swear in most circumstances they don't have a racist bone in their body. And C Legion, we get it...there is a black soldier in Flags of our Fathers. This isn't "Where's Blackee." Lee was speaking about the history of blacks in WWII movies and the overall exclusion in Clint's two films.

you're an idiot. Racism is very much prevalent in today's society. If you're not from the south, try visiting sometime and see for yourself. Obama supporters who go door-to-door or simply stand on the side of the road, are having things thrown at them, and being called "niggers." In West Virginia, polling shows that people say that they would never ever vote for a black candidate, no matter what. You're either very ignorant or just compltely undeducated.

I'm simply addressing the fact that some here are stating that there were no black people shown in "Flags of Our Fathers" this is a fallacy.<p>Here is a direct quote from Spike Lee "Clint Eastwood made two films about Iwo Jima that ran for more than four hours total, and there was not one Negro actor on the screen,". He is wrong.<p>The bigger picture for me is that many seem to believe that people dislike Spike Lee because he is black, I do not see it that way. I'll break it down, generally speaking people dislike Spike Lee because he is a loudmouth tosser who shows little respect for his peers. His outbursts are entirely manufactured in order bolster his image, and in turn to garner more publicity for his films. Personally I see this as a disservice to race relations, his outbursts only fuel hatred, as evidenced by the closet racists who latch onto his bullshit rhetoric (some of them have posted here).<p>The reason race always becomes an issue when Spike Lee talks shit is because HE MAKES IT THE ISSUE!<p>I like Spike Lee the artist, I dislike Spike Lee the man.

Did you name yourself after those DVD rental machines at McDonald's? Anyway, my ex girlfriend (who I love dearly) was African American and she would have agreed with me, I guarantee it. And my point is that Spike Lee is creating controversey where there is none. Whatsoever. And I'm NOT racist. That's not how I was raised. Hell, my mother wouldn't even let us watch The Beverly Hillbillies because she thought it was derogatory towards people that the Clampett family represented. Not to mention All in the Family, etc.

talk about the biggest egotistical move ever... and why did he win the lawsuit? becasue he is black and carries his race card with him. so yeah, if someone is exploting the black community big time, is him, more so then the whites will do anyways

I know we as a nation love to make films about World War II because it was probably the last good war we fought and won, but World War I makes it look like a birthday party at Chuck E Cheeses. It plunged an entire continent into a collective depression.

of serious depression. The war was long and absolutely brutal, and the literature of the time reflects this. We like World War II because it makes us feel good. We're like the old man who keeps talking about their glory days in high school football--that one magical game we ran the winning touchdown past the posts at the last minute. But if you want to look at the absolute horror of war, World War I is about as bad as it got.

"spike lee is irreverent. i have witness this so call "voice of the negro community" stumble a lot when he debates political issues, coming off as an ignorant fool" <p> ultimateedition, "irreverent" means unconventional and lacking seriousness. Its usually used to describe someone's sense of humour or comedy style. Maybe "incoherent" would have been a better word. If you're going to criticize someone for being ignorant and stupid, you should probably know the meaning of the words you use to avoid the obvious irony.

There were black people at Iwo Jima, but of all the Allied soldiers there, they made up roughly 10% of that. However, a black man, was the one who found the metal rod that held the flag they hoisted up. I don't think Clint Eastwood was being racist, especially since there are a few black people in the film.
Although, I do think Spike Lee was out of line in the whole "we're not on a plantation" remark.
Did Saving Private Ryan have black people in it?

Spike should STFU. He is the "angriest rich man" in America. He bitched that Eastwood made "Bird" because he was a white guy making a movie about an African-American musician. It's transparent and obvious Lee is just opening his pie hole yet again to draw publicity to his movie. Controversy will make more noise than direct marketing. That is due to all the free press Lee is getting. Eastwood is absolutely not a racist, that charge is patently absurd.

Eastwood has "Tenure" on his side. And he has Oscars and MANY acollades on his side as well. I feel he KNOWS what he's talking about. But....I'm willing to hear what Spike has to say about all this. Without all the BS. I just want to know.

He makes a lot of racist comments. From saying that Clint Eastwood shouldn't have directed "Bird" because a white man shouldn't make a film about Charlie Park (he said the same thing about Malcolm X when Norman Jewison was attached to the project) to saying that black men shouldn't marry white women (a swipe at his father). <br><br>
I don't think Spike Lee is an out and out racist, but he does have some racist view. Views that were expressed by a white person, would have gotten then in far more hot water.<br><br>
As for Lee the filmmaker, he is overrated. I loved Do the Right Thing. Most of his other movies were decent or outright crap. I liked The Inside Man, but thought it was a bit overrated. The 25th Hour was pretty good. I have seen about a half dozen or so of his other movies and didn't really care for any of them. Although Samuel L Jackson's performance in Jungle Fever blew me away. The rest of the movie left something to be desired.

I lived in the south over half of my life (15 years) and you can stereotype it all you want. I lived in Marion, AL for two years where my school (MMI) of 300 was all white and the city was all black and the black population treated my schoolmates and myself with a great deal of disrespect despite the fact that we were a major economic source for the city. The south is more than a great deal of racist KKK members. For those who seem to think otherwise, maybe you have no clue as to what the south is all about. The south is about heritage, not racism. I think we can drop the Reconstructionist BS about how every white down south wants to lynch every black they see.
Also, don't give me this garbage about how Obama supporters are being pelted because of their faith in the Almighty Messiah Obama. Obama supporters are also guilty of doing the same to Clinton supporters (I support neither side). As to Obama himself, he is the reborn JFK: all media hype with no ideas but a lot of charisma. Sorry, I have a degree in political theory, I've seen what socialism does to a country, and if you want the economy to truly tank then throw in with Obama. Me, I still believe in a meritocracy.
Finally, it shows how pathetic my detractors are. Try to tear me down rather than debate the issues. It shows someone can't take the truth when they try to undermine the source of it.

And Spike Lee is still a racist and a hack of a director, but that is my opinion which we are all still entitled to. Knock my view if you want, but if you have to sink to insulting me then we know who's views really don't matter.

(and i am currently studying for my public finance course with an American text book) Australian's pay less tax, have basically no public foreign debt but have universal health care. EVERYONE. We also have an excellent social security system and pension as well as a govt assisted higher education scheme that means all good students can go to uni. You almost never see homeless people on the street. IT CAN BE DONE without breaking the bank

Even mentioning Universal Health Care or govt. assisted higher education in an America based blog is immediate grounds for scurrilous claims of being a socialist or a communist to start flying (I'm only half-joking). <p> But to more seriously answer your question, we're taxed more and get less than you do in Oz because a whopping proportion of our tax dollars go directly to military spending, in times of peace and war. It's huge.

And I completely agree with it. The problem with what Lee said was not that his accusation against Hollywood lacked validity, but that singling out Eastwood's film for that accusation was a mistake. You can find dozens of WW2 movies that lack any black presence whatsoever, but Eastwood's movie A.) did have some black actors in the background, B.) was focused on a particular battle that did not have a large African-American presence, C.) and did depict the life of Ira Hayes, a Native-American who clearly fights racism in the film. No, Lee didn't say that Eastwood was a racist, but by singling out "Flags of Our Fathers" to make a broader point about Hollywood, he made a very uncomfortable implication about Eastwood. And, frankly, Clint had every right to respond to inaccurate statements about his film that suggested he had some sort of racial motivation in his casting and storytelling.

June 14, 2008, 11:19 p.m. CST

by Redbox

My ex girlfriend is black and she agrees with me. This is the "My black expert" rule in which a idiot like yourself justifies your views because you know black people who agree with you and you used to date one of them so you cannot be racist. First, they don't agree with you, they just tell you that to avoid the argument. That's also why she broke up with you. and Literarywanderer, I have no guilt. I don't feel at all responsible for actions that are not my own, however I do want to make this country a greater place where the smartest, the best ascend and the losers and ignorant move to Australia. Pack your bag. Don't mistake me for a knee jerk, guilt ridden liberal. I'm a fair minded ass kicking moderate, but I hate two faced assholes and there are a lot of them in the white community right now and since, you are my peeps, I'm being honest about how my people are.

Yeah, Scorcese is better. Good thing I said probably. I still dig Mr. Lee though, extremely intelligent and talented. I don't have to agree with his personal politics to like his movies. But for the record blacks are underutilized in war movies.

I just want to send people there because it is 1) far away.... and 2) it has 9 of the worlds 10 deadliest snakes. (okay that was just me being silly) To clarify... I am a bigot, I think everyone is in some way. I am bias against low grade Bill O'Reilly logic that people are no longer ashamed to pass off in place of actual cogent arguements. There is a vast and mostly uncontested History. It's all there and I don't put blame on one group or another. I recognize that a lot of the history of this planet is "live by the sword, die by the much bigger sword," but to be so blind to the social economic, history of this country, to receive so much and be, as we are, so privileged to live in this land and to have nothing better to do but feel that you have some sort of moral authority, because a black artist criticized a white artist and the white artist, who is supposed to be the "man's man of all time," can't do anything better than lash out like a big baby, well, it makes me think that many of you are just a bunch of scared little apologists. So I call you out, because as a white man, I'm tired of your claims of "reverse racism" I'm sick of your "Fear of a Black Planet." Yeah after all the denouncement of Rev Wright, when I hear the reverse shit everyday from the same white folks who seem so offended by him.. Yeah I am angry, because people need to grow some balls and worry about the real problems in this world and stop caring so much because you think a black person has offended you. I had a friend named Paul. Paul was white and offended. Paul didn't think in this country that he should be afraid to walk in tough poor, neighborhoods that were predominantly non-white. I told him that many people of color had the same problem, except they were afraid to go into what we would call nice, safe white neighborhoods. Paul didn't see the correlation and he only saw that his freedoms were halted, because he felt scared in scary neighborhoods. He spent all his time, "exercising his rights" by going into bad areas late at night. Was Paul a freedom fighter? No. Paul was so self involved that he never realized that no one felt safe in those neighborhoods. Did Paul try to help the people in these areas, did he try to make it safer? No, he just demanded his rights like a spoiled child who thought he deserved something. Paul got shot in the torso and now he's in a wheel chair. To me, complaining about racism, when you don't give a damn about oppression, is similar. Some want to condemn and be heard, but don't really give a damn about really making things any better. Well, there are chairs out there for all who want them.. Cheers..

To criticise someone for inaccuracy in a WWII film when your own WWII film is also historically inaccurate smacks of hypocrisy. Infact, its plain idiotic. However it does look a good watch so I'll check it out.

you are an idiot. why do u keep mentioning that you're white? I suspect you're black, but pretending to be white so you can claim you have witnessed so many racist discussions white people have away from the presence of any black people. You use this approach so people won't bag you out for being a racist person towards whites, because, as you so carefully mention every time, you are white. you are a racist, plain and simple, just reading your posts i can see the seething contempt you have for white people. but what really makes me think you're racist is that you lump 'white' people all in the same category. you're as bad as white people who say all black youths are criminals and drug dealers. SOME white people are racist, SOME black people are racist, don't spout your crap by telling us that we are all racist

We have such wonders as universal health care and a not entirely gutted education system! Our crime rates are moderate and our environment is much less damaged thanks to our absurdly low population to land ratio. Plus our women are insanely hot and we all live on the beach because the interior of our country is all fucking desert! Unfortuntely we're all under the thumb of statist oppression, but then who isn't? Also we never get many rock bands. The festivals in Europe blew my mind. 4 days?! The biggest ones we have go for two!

Ha! I must be black! That is the answer! You are correct in saying that I am making blanket statements. I am soo sick of hearing this tired shit, I am losing my temper, for that I'm sorry. Of course not all people are this or that... But this isn't about good or bad, this is about perception. The truth is, I'm sick of talking to folks about race on this silly "my feelings are hurt" level. Grow up! Everyone is sometimes the victim. As white people, as men, hell as people in the first world, it's us a lot less than anyone else. I do find it funny that you think I must be black... sorry, it's not true. I'm Italian (50%) German (25%) and Russian Jew (25%), I'm second and third generation American, born in the great state of New York and raised on Johnny Cash, Roger Miller. I keep saying I'm white, because I think it's important that people know that I am white, and that as a "white man" growing up in and among the white middle class, I'm very aware who White America is culturally. You may differ, you may disagree, or you may just hate that I'm letting the cat out of the bag.

Calling somebody and idiot, but not actually defining the label? I'm glad to see you're keeping the fine Talkback debate tradition of sensible supported arguements alive. That's good stuff.. You really made my day with the thinking I'm not white.. Do they let you use the computer every day or just when you don't wet the bed?

Let it go buddy, god, i've just browsed through most of this thread and its just crazy... dunno if i want to get further into the whole racist debate raging here but... well i think there's a fine line dividing those that are geniunely fighting for equal rights and those that are just flat out racist. One of the biggest responses to racism is to be racist back, reflect the hate, and i agree its a hard thing not to do. if you see a certain anonymous person being prejidous against your race, then its hard not to take that faceless, nameless individual oppressor and project your hate on to the whole race... racism creates racism... and to clarify i didn't think you were black because you were saying white people were racist, i think you're black because of the constant references you make to being white seem to merely be a ploy to use as evidence for first hand witnessing normal white people suddenly transforming into racist bigots as soon as no black people are around. That sort of crap is very rare, and those people are racist, so either you are just surrounded by racism in your life or you are just making stuff up and thinking the worst of evil whitey. racist sentiments that. anyway as for Spike Lee, i think he falls into the category of being racist. he does fight for equal rights but at the same time he exploits the controversy for his own gain. ie. he uses the media shitstorm he creates to garner publicity for his upcoming movies, under the guise of being an activist. To compare a man like that to a man like Martin Luther King is a disgrace. But saying that, sometimes you need to fight fire with fire and he's no worse than white supremists or supremists of any other race

Fine, let's call Queensland the Alabama of Australia, what with your "proud" legacy of Pauline Hanson ;). For isolated, socially backward and filthy rich desert-dwellers, you can't ignore the evidence that WA is Texas, through and through! :p

In stating that Spike Lee is no worse than a white supremacist.. you have created a good place to end this. I think part of our problem here is terminology and part is perception. Your flat use of the term racist or racism is not really clear to me. Do I think Spike Lee has bias against white people specifically? No. Does he mistrust and hold bias against white people generally? Yes. Is it completely justified? No. Is it at all justified? Sure. This is a country where in the 1950's whole towns would gather together to hang a black man, take some photos for postcards and have a fish fry all as one grand outing. That you see no difference between white supremacists and Spike Lee, that you see a man who makes movies as being on the same level as people who advocate for the separation and genocide of whole groups of people is beyond me. There is a big gap between our minds at the moment. I ask you one favor. Would you read something I suggested and then continue this conversation? I'm not kidding, I would very much like to know your thoughts.. The book is The Autobiography of Malcolm X : As Told to Alex Haley. If you do read it, I would love to talk about it.. Cheers..

Oh I "got" the ending to Jungle Fever, it was just frankly hilarious and so overly melodramatic I nearly laughed myself into a coma. Maybe it'd pay not to make assumptions about the intellegence of a cinema goer just because they don't happen to like the same movie you do. I can see why the negativity on these boards explodes so often, you all get so uptight about these things.

Yeah, I'd be the first to say Spike is an arrogant asshole (anyone who tries to frivolously sue a network because the name is simular to your first name makes you a douche.)but the man makes good films well most of the time. He's no where a hack compared to ratner,boll,emmerich,etc. so some asshole TBer exagerrates just to get his point across.<p>And another thing: All you racist talkbackers be you white,black,hispanic,asian..shut the fuck up and keep your stupid comments to yourselves. this is a fansite, not a race bating forum.
<p>I'm disapointed how Clint would stoop to defensive backbiting,instead ofeither explaining his side or just ignoring Lee altogether.but then again, he is a Republican so what do you expect from a classless party?I'm surprised he did'nt do a dick cheny by saying to spike; "fuck you"!

I have enjoyed many of his films... I love Malcolm X (faults and all, it's a great epic) He got game, 25th hour,
clockers, she got to have it, Bamboozled (yes another no ending, but 2/3rds of a fantastic effort) Summer of Sam, Get on the Bus, Crooklyn and of course the doc... 4 Little Girls...

When I say I don't think the movie knows how to end... I mean rhythmically, I mean flow. Especially in his early films... things seem to end either too dramatically or on so many beats that it's like a song where the drummer just keeps playing, long after everyone else quit. Just my opinion, and I watch Fassbiner and Almodóvar so I think I have a broad pallet. Oh, and fuck you for getting so pithy about understanding the ending. Jeez, it's not Rashomon dude!

First, it's historically inaccurate. Lee is so afraid to take on the Nation of Islam that he omits anything negative that was in the book. One thing that was very different in reality was when Malcolm went to Mecca, he had no idea how to act or pray like a Muslim, because the NOI did not practice these very basic parts of Islam (like how to kneel when praying, which Muslims do five times a day) This was a revelation for Malcolm and really showed him how internal and self oriented the NOI was. Brother Baines did not exist, he was a fictional construct created to make Malcolm's journey to Islam more dramtic. The truth is that Malcolm's brother brought him in and then when he was in, his brother was excommunicated from the fold and he had to shun him. Also the ending still suffers from the "Spike Lee doesn't want the movie to end" problem, No better place to end then Ozzie Davis' great eulogy. It was one of the greatest speeches I have ever heard in tribute. Still, all and all Malcolm X is a great film about a great man.

On McCain I have reservations. The guy did a hard 180 on a lot of issues to curry favor with the Moral Majority (a branch I absolutely loathe with their stances against stem cell research, urging to teach creationism in schools, attempts to inject religion into politics, etc.). In my opinion McCain should be trying to alter the base of Republican base and finally break these kooks hold on the GOP. McCain clearly has no answer to the oil problem (and I hate his refusal to drill anywhere in America to try at least a short term solution). WOw, we have to worry about killing off a few species. If the economy tanks and people are starving, those same species are going to get eaten by the hungry hordes. Besides, animals die everyday. Who gives a shit about a certain spotted owl?!?!!? I will admit McCain is responsible for the gains in Iraq but any genius could have pointed out more troops would lessen violence. The problem is McCain hasn't stated how he is going to end the corruption in Iraq, found a way to cut the costs of occupation (in my opinion make Iraq give us oil for free. We're virtually running their country for them), or put any real pressure on Iraqi politicians to stop the BS and actually work towards reconciliation and nation building (which they drag their feet on because of all the money they make robbing America blind). Also, McCain wanting to keep the tax cuts permanent. Hey, McCain, I can see keeping lower to middle class taxes down but with the boom of growth for the rich, I think they need to pay a bit more rather than getting the same cuts. God, we need a flat tax and VAT in this country. Would solve everything. McCain of 2000 this McCain is not. Still, with Obama spouting off about universal health care (no thank you, economy is worse off enough), economic intervention (socialism wrecks economies. Look at France, Britain pre-Thatcher, teh problems of East and West German unification), a rapid pull-out of Iraq (unlike Vietnam, we need a commodity in the country), his shady friends, and the fact the guy has been a senator for one term and not even served but half that to run for president, no thank you. Obama has no real experience, is hard core left wing, and is roughly 75-90% media creation. I really don't like either candidate. I'm really thinking of going Libertarian for the first time in my life.

i sorta agree with some of that post above but seriously, ur opinions on iraq paint you to be the poster child of american propoganda. make them give us free oil because we practically run the country for them?? riiight... i'll ignore how ridiculous that sentiment is for the moment, but the whole point of the war was to take the oil by force, but just because cheney and co are taking it doesn't mean the public will ever reap the rewards... you'll always still pay huge prices for oil, just now the money is going into different pockets. but anyway that is NOT the solution, thats short term prevention at best, what really needs to happen is for other forms of fuel to be readily available and economically efficient. you have big opinions and seem to unreservedly think you are the one who is informed and knows the facts... i'm sure tom cruise thinks he's well informed with his views and the rest of society are the ones who are wrong and unenlightened... kinda like america and the rest of the world really

Your country has a population of what.. 22 million? America has over 304 million people. What you are talking about would be just fine for us, IF states had more control over what happens in their state. But we have moved away from that. The Federal government gets its way by giving away money.. if states don't play by the rules, they don't get the money. The whole system is completely fucked up. And with democrats poised to win in November (and Republicans too spineless to do anything), its not going to change any time soon. <p><p>What you have to understand about democrats is that they (the people in power) don't WANT what you are describing. That's the LAST thing they want. They want our money, because they want to keep control. The whole thing is a scam. They give people just enough so that they will be dependent on the government to suit their needs. If an alternative suggestion is proposed, they shoot it down and say it will hurt poor people or "the middle class". Did you know we can't even drill for oil 60 miles off our coast? The democrats make that illegal. But guess what? China and other countries are happily pumping it out of the ocean floor. Do we see environmental damage on our shores? Absolutely not. They're bastards. That's all there is to it.

oh and iraq robbing america blind? my god... just... was it you who said you don't watch fox? because honestly it sounds like you have an ear finely tuned to the ol propoganda machine... next you'll be saying that the middle east hate america because of its freedom...

No that's not why she broke up with me. She broke up with me because she was moving to LA and I couldn't go. I brought that up for two reasons:<p>1) To dispel any assertion that I am racist. <p>2) To let you know that not all black people agree with Spike Lee. Who is generalizing here? You are painting with a pretty broad brush, telling me that she only agrees because she wants to avoid the subject. So black people ALL think like Spike? And even worse, they are all submissive to whites with a few lone exceptions? Come on. And for the record, SHE was way more conservative than I am. By a longshot. I actually liked Obama at first but she couldn't stand him. Just to name one example.

How a lot of the white talkbackers would feel if, when going to the movies, they rarely saw positive images of themselves? If almost every movie starred a black, hispanic or asian actor, and the white person was the "comedy relief", the first person killed in the horror movie, the prostitute, the gangbanger or the best friend who never got laid? And you spoke about the FIRST white actor to win an academy award, presidential nomination, win The Masters, etc. A lot of minorities feel that white people agree with the seniment that Pat Buchannan said a couple of months ago about (paraphrasing) "Blacks should kiss the ground and thank America for the opportunities they have." Well, if your heriatge comes from Ireland, or Italy, or Greece, or Russia, or a lot of other places, you'll find out that a lot of folks did not care for YOUR forefathers and they came to America for opportunities they were denied back home. My hopes are for the next generation to see how stoopid we are and learn.

Predictably, some of you have taken the opportunity to expose yourselves as racist, xenophobic cowards, an appropriate description of the average talk backer (curious how no one points out aesthetic or technical aspects of his films).
The piece on Spike Lee made no mention of race, etc. yet the silly, cowardly boys are willingly put their bigotry on display.
The knocks on Lee in the talkback range from (hilarious) accusations of being a racist (wow) to a hack director.
He rightfully got on Tarantino's a@@ for using inappropriate language, and you expose your gross generalizations when you argue that certain language is widely used. Perhaps you should research people outside of rappers to get an idea that the group that Lee belongs to is as far away from those stereotypes that you hold so dear.
Additionally, he was right to get into Eastwood's a@@, as it's a noted fact that a significant component of the U.S. fighting force during our "Great Wars" was composed of African American men.
Now, it has become very clear that strong, intelligent, and unafraid men of African descent scare the hell out of you. And you rationalize your fear by clinging to racist ideals taught to you by your fathers and mothers at the dinner table, reinforced by your meager socialization.
So, when you're ready to be honorable men and not cowardly, xenophobic loser fan-boys, get a formal or informal education on the things you love (rock&roll, hip-hop, jazz, blues, swing, slang, giving 'five', pop-culture) for they all come from the people that scare you (yet ironically, you love to emulate what makes these people 'cool').
Furthermore, read up on American history, read up on Cornell West and Henry Louis Gates, Jr., too.
Clearly, your glaring fear prevents you from appreciating a great director because he reminds you of things that you are comfortable ignoring because these things don't affect you (but you clearly benefit). These are things that you could research and maybe they would provide enlightenment for you. But instead, you ignore reality and cling to your self-fulfilling prophecy about certain people, for you are fearful cowards. Moreover, you are afraid that you will discover something about yourselves that may prove to be true, and for your fragile psyches, that would be unbearable.
So ultimately, you hurt yourself. But, it's a slow mental death, so you are unaware. And if ignorance is bliss, then you must be in paradise.

I'm simply pointing out what has been reported by multiple news sources: contractors both foreign (Iraq) and domestic (American) have been embezzling/overcharging for reconstruction. Also, Iraq should be paying for part of its reconstruction. The welfare mentality doesn't work (give give give). That is part of the reason the Iraqi parliament is dragging its feet on necessary reforms. The Iraqi government knows we are going to keep paying and defending them so they can take all the time in the world. I just think its time to make Iraq a mature sovereign body who has to pay its bills and step up as a true national entity. Paying/forgiving debts is not the way to go. Africa is a prime example of that. Paint me as a "conservative" if you want. I'm quite moderate and a realist. I could care less about Iraq, but I do know the current policies there won't establish a stable government. We need to make them step up or start punishing them. Also, as pertains energy policy, we should be investing heavily in hydrogen and electric engines as well as funding research into fusion (which the Chinese are pushing). We should also be pushing stem cell research but that's another issue. Just because I'm a realist on Iraq doesn't make me a hardcore conservative. You might want to withhold judgement until you get to know someone better.

I've seen movies aimed at black audiences, and they tend to be derogatory towards whites from time to time. No one knocks a black movie putting out a negative white stereotype, but if a white movie were to use a negative black stereotype then it is racist. It is not that whites are racist for complaining about Lee, it's that we are tired of the double standard. We can take criticism. We can't take hypocrisy. As to great black war movies, I loved "Glory" and "Platoon" also had positive black characters (as well as negative ones). Stop labeling everyone racist because they hate Lee. God, that is the entire reason there is argument on this talkback. The original argument was that Lee was using a racist point that wasn't valid. The problem started when people started using Lee's method and painting everyone racist who refused to see it Spike's way.

I don't think you're a hardcore conservative... you probably think of yourself as something of an independent or liberal, but your ideas are founded on, or at the very least, heavily influenced by american propoganda. your ideas of iraq are way off. do u really think its appropriate for iraq to just suddenly say 'hey boys enough is enough. let's stop pretending, we've had it too easy lately and we should just get on with our lives and stop mooching off foreign aid'... u do realise that the country was bombed to shit, infrastructure and resources ruined, millions are homeless and injured, not to mention the political turmoil of it all? its a tough situation that can't just be laid aside.
the problem is though, what 'news' isn't propoganda these days? with corporations taking over the globe with the likes of rupert murdoch, and then downright evil bastards like dick cheney, how do we expect to get untainted, relevant and accurate accounts of the situation in places we can't visit ourselves... but really, just withhold a bit on the blunt statements

excellent point about big DM bullshit post... can't people be critical of Lee without it being racist? you sound like an educated enough guy, how can u just put all the critism down to 'white folk are just afraid of the black man'?? that's ludicrous, fear doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about in terms of Lee

what did I say? Everything I said was true. Osama? Bill Clinton could have gotten him in the mid-90s. Didn't. WTC? If America had pursued that in 93 when the first terrorist attack occured (rather than calling it a police matter), it's arguable that the second one wouldn't have happened. Social Security? They have been hitting us over the head for decades saying its going to go bankrupt. When Bush called for privatization, what did they do? They told us its actually fine the way it is. I don't care if you disagree with privatization- the point is that they wouldn't even participate in an honest debate. What we need is real dialogue in this country, not bumper sticker politics. Energy crisis? Democrats made it illegal to build refineries. Nuclear power? They think it's too dangerous. ANWR? Won't let us do it, because it will hurt the environment. Even though the drilling area would be INSIGNIFICANT compared to the size of that region. We are talking a mere fraction of land. EVERY time we try to move forward with some progressive ideas, they stand in the way. And like I said, that would be fine if they came up with actual solutions. Then a real dialogue would begin. But they don't. They just want to throw more money at the problem. That's it. That's their answer for everything. And where do they get the money? More taxes.

Trust me, I'm not for the war in Iraq. I am, though, pushing for Iraq to attain stability. I do enjoy FOX from tiem to time but can tell their attempts to push ultra-conservative agendas. Yeah, kids have gone wacko because religion doesn't exist in school anymore. Give me a break. Kids have become the perverted schlubs they are because parents are either to self-obsessed to raise them or too busy trying to protect their kids rather than raise them. Back to the original point, my overall view of American military policy is that we should withdraw to our borders. We do not need to maintain garrisons in Europe, South Korea, or Japan anymore. All three areas are now thriving economic zones that can maintain their own defense. In my eyes, the military should be for defensive purposes in peacetime and offensive in wartime. Economically, the military is a major drain on the US economy and we all saw what excessive military spending did to the USSR.

I forgot to put that in. He was just a disaster with foriegn policy. He conducted his foriegn policy with poll numbers. Taking care of problems by launching missles from the Persian Gulf. Why do you think 9/11 happened? Because we are a paper tiger. They knew that we don't like to get our nose bloodied. 8 years of inept foriegn policy created that. Osama declared war on us in the mid-nineties. What happened? Nothing. USS Cole? Nothing happened. Embassies? Oh we condemned those. It's all garbage. Do I love the war in Iraq? Hell no. I hate it. But what I submit is that a really weak foriegn policy for 8 years created an environment where such a disaster was possible.

Unless someone has a solution, they shouldn't become a part of the problem. That is the reason government has become rigid, polarized, and partisan. Rather than coming together in reasonable debate, both sides simply put up walls to progress. The reason the country is coming apart are both sides pulling it in opposite directions. We need moderate discourse.

Clint was legend back when Spike was sucking on his Mama's teet. I bet you think Johnny Carson wishes he could fit in Carson Daly's jock too eh? I dig Spike's films but he's an angry little man. Clint is a class act.

I feel like when I insult someone by saying that they mentioned that they had a black girlfriend simply because they feel that proves they aren't racist and they respond telling me that is in fact their point, then the conversation is done. Suffice to say, if you think that having had a black girl friend means your not racist, you're already lost to the world. It's like when that guy asked Ben Affleck what courses he liked and Ben said "History." Racism is more complex and subtle that the KKK. Many people who have dated people of color are racist. I'm afraid the world is far more nuanced and complex that some of you give it credit for. Be careful at those large intersections, its dangerous out there.

Because I have often come across racist (i.e. 'Black Hack') comments in forums more often than not. So, I said "average talk backer" as opposed to "every talk backer". The internet provides a level of anonymity that is ideal for people to express sometimes myopic views without fear of retribution, no matter how innappropriate the post.
No matter Spike Lee's size, your view of him as "angry" (because you don't have the capacity to have his unique experience), or any other silly irrelevant thing that bothers you, you should 'man-up' as they say, and be respectful. He's a decent filmmaker and pretty positive idividual. You should ask yourself why so many actors-Caucasion, African American, Latino, etc. have worked with him-and you'll find that it's because his stuff is powerful. He got the careers jumping (to another level) for a slew of actors-John Turturro (and his brother), Giancarlo Esposito, Wesley Snipes, Denzel Washington, Samuel L. Jackson, Hill Harper, Rosie Perez, just to name some. Other also have eagerly worked with him-Danny Aielo, Edward Norton, Peter Boyle, Harvey Keitel, Delroy Lindo.
So, give the man the respect he deserves. He's been in the game for a while. He was the director and creative force behind Nike and the "Air Jordan" campaign. He's a major influence to my generation, and if you cannot understand where he is coming from, then that's your problem, cause he speaks to my generation and is relevant to me. You come from a different standpoint, so you should just accept that you may never understand. And as a good filmmaker, it's his right to criticize his cohorts. He's paid his dues. Who are you?

If you're questioning objections to racist language, read through the prior posts. As to Redbox, I agree with you completely. But, let's not waste anymore time giving folks like Literarywanderer a free education by trying to quantify something we all know is prevalent in our society. Those who don't see it simply choose not to, or they perpetuate the problem. As if there's been any reconciliation in our nation-be real. How does a victim forget or forgive their attacker, if they are attacked on a daily basis? How does something forgive the past if the past isn't the past, for it evolves and becomes institutionalized, and no closure occurs? How does one forgive that which no apology has been offered for? So, let's stop pretending. Study our collective history, and quit getting caught up in superficial stuff. We all have biases, and to pretend they aren't there is folly. If folks don't like Spike's work, that's fine (I don't like all of his films), but bringing race into it in a negative way without knowing the context of his films and opinion, does a disservice to visitors of this site.

You hate black movies because you say they are, in general, racist toward white people. Therefore, you hate Spike Lee because he is a black director and makes black movies.
That's just stupid. Name one racist thing from a black movie (and don't say "Do the Right Thing" because everyone's racist in that movie, especially the blacks). And if you can't think of anything, then you're racist for generalizing movies just because there are black people in it based on your own prejudices.

Your Rush Limbaugh fed delusions amuse me. Yes, it wasn't the Bush administration's chosen and willful ignorance of intelligence that Osama Bin Laden was about to attack, and bent on using hijacked planes to do so, even explicitly stated in an email that could not be more clear or direct, no, it wasn't the fact that Bush and Rice, Cheney, et. all were dismissive of Al Qaeda and regarded terrorism focus as "Clinton's thing", no, it wasn't that they pointedly ignored Clarke's desperate warnings that they needed to watch Laden, no, it wasn't that when Bill Clinton did try to attack Laden and his ilk during his presidency, needlessly embattled by congressional Republicans hell-bent on removing his popular ass from the white house by effective coup for lying about a blowjob, as they screamed "wag the dog" at the top of their lungs, no, it's clearly all Clinton's fault. It must be exhausting deluding yourself like that all day.

"We do not need to maintain garrisons in Europe, South Korea, or Japan anymore." We maintain bases in those countries for 1) Ease of deployment (strategic) 2) As a deterrence. I remember Schweinfurt going nuts when we pulled a portion of our troops from Europe. Removing our military from South Korea and Japan would not be wise... considering our current state with North Korea at this time. Also, the only reason China hasn't attacked Taiwan is because of us.

I'll admit Clinton made mistakes in regards to Al Qaeda, so does he. Read his book sometime. Unlike Bush, or any other Republican, he is capable of admitting he made a mistake. But saying it was all Clinton's fault is just pathetic.

Your all crazy!!! Blacks did play a very important role in WWII, They were the COOKS. As for the Tuskagee Pilots, they went up against half trained young inexperienced German pilots.....Yeah. Huge Contribution. LOL!!!

This is fascinating, but I see nothing that contradicts my points which are directly from The Autobiography of Malcolm X. Just because he visited Mecca as a emissary of the NOI, doesn't say anything about his lack of knowledge of the basic practices of Islam. Are you saying he made that all up? Thanks for the resource. I'll keep reading.

...Clint Eastwood in a desparate attempt to garner press buzz for his movie though. He makes his movies, and then can't help but say WHITEY THIS AND WHITEY THAT. Mars Blackmon should just stick to making his movies, and like Clint said to, just shut his mouth. Plantation or not, twenty plus years of complaining about race is getting really old.

ahh Spike is the one who brings race into it... he exploits the racism issue to create publicity for his movies. Ofcourse he does some good things for the cause, but his main approach is to further the idea of 'us verse them'. he promotes negative ways of thinking about different races. he's got every right to be upset at the terrible things that happened in the past, but the way forward isn't to perpetuate that way of thinking. its like he thinks its a war, and the answer is to build a big army and fight the other side. he's just building hate within the black community against whites, and creating resentment among non-blacks for accusing everyone else of being racist. alot of people on this thread say that alot of white people are racist because they are angered by spike lee, yet when spike is called a racist, these same people respond in same way as those they call racist - with anger. being angered by an accusation doesn't make u a racist. anyway spike needs to realise that the war he's fighting isn't against white people, its against racism. he should stop attacking people, and start bringing people together. i don't think he wants us to move on with equality, he wants white people to pay for the crimes of past generations. you can't blame people for things that other people did. just because someone is white does that mean they should take responsibility for the actions of the KKK? and in terms of there being no reconciliation... ofcourse there is! are you insane? if you think that things are the same now as back 50 - 100 years ago, then you are a fool and that diminishes the vast tragedies of the past. thats the sort of thing spike lee has helped, he's helped create this idea that racism is still present in EVERY facet of our society... spike creates racism pure and simple. he doesn't work on fighting racism, he works on fighting evil white people

WHO HAS SCENE SPIKE LEE"S KATRINA DOC?????<P><P> WHO KNOWS WHAT IT"S LIKE TO BE DIRT POOR????<P><P> WHO KNOWS WHAT IT'S LIKE TO FEEL SOMETHING AND WANT TO MAKE A FILM????<P><P>spike lee is a real filmmaker, and clint is a hollywood formula man. Clint would make crap movies if he could get money for epic war films and girl boxing pictures. Spike lee will continue to make films from his heart regardless of popularity and trends and geek websites. <P><P>PS I'll bet dimes for dollars Clint is racist behind closed doors.

<p>Lee's comments direct at Eastwood were nonsense and Eastwood own him when he told him to shut his face. The fact of the matter is that although there were African Americans who fought bravely in World War II there were none involved flag raising incident that the movie Flags of our Fathers focuses on and since Letter from Iwo Jima focuses on Iwo Jima from the Japanese perspective it also would have been historically inaccurate to have African Americans there.</p>
<p>Lee's, "we're not on a plantation" retort was a classic straw man argument that proved that he didn't have a leg to stand on with his original criticism of Eastwood. It would have been historically inaccurate to have African American soldiers in either movie. Lee proved, once again, that he is an ignorant race baiting bigot and thus I will boycott this movie and all future movies that the ignorant race baiting bigot is involved in. </p>

but that doesn't mean he's off the hook. I don't think Spike should be so loose lipped about his fellow filmmakers. It's is important for me to remember that I was raised around privileged, suburban people of many races (mostly white). So when people champion the minority opinion, I am open minded. Spike Lee sees Clint as part of a bigger problem. Hollywood constantly shows a white mindset through subject, casting and pay scale. I live around underprivileged black people and I go home to my plasma screen and full fridge wishing black people had someone in film to stick up for them...<P><P>oh wait they do!

I was thinking of a friend from the projects named Garion. Garion is one of the most ignorant people I know. He's had kids with three different ladies, he never finished high school and gets fired from most jobs because of his smoking and drinkin' on the job. He lived in a place that was shot up because his older brother owed money to some real thugs. He's my friend and loves my plasma, but won't eat anything in my fridge cause he "hates that healthy shit"<P><P>I'm also involved with going deep in the ghetto and getting people to register to vote so I never have to see anothor privileged fuck like bush again

No, you idiot. I don't think whites should be held accountable for their ancestors actions. They should however, be held accountable for their own. As you are a Caucasion, you don't experience racism like many non-whites do on a daily basis. As in today, not 400 years ago. I don't need to explain sh#t to you, boy. You'll never get it. Just accept it. You're on the other end of the spectrum. I'm done, fan...boy.

I just saw an Arby's commercial and there were NO minorities! I KNOW I have seen a black person, a mexican american, and maybe a phillipino in Arby's before, and so it is UNFAIR for Arby's to have a commercial that doesn't feature one of each!

There's a huge difference between not including minorities in films, and excluding those who served their country in wars from historical films. I agree that Spike was unfair in calling out Clint and I don't think Clint is racist. Lee is a provacateur and likes to shake things up and get people talking, and based on this talkback, he has achieved his goal. But some of you are talking out of your ass. Let it go.

hah... that was a pretty pathetic reply. I wasn't attacking you, i was arguing a point, and u just got all defensive and came up with the usual talk baker hissy fit. and you're right, you don't need to explain anything to me... because i am well aware of whats going on in the world. you on the other hand seem to go looking for racism and hate. you said that people who don't see racism simply choose not to... thats bullshit. racism does occur, but it is not EVERYWHERE, its rare in most parts, but abundant in isolated cases. its not a matter of people who don't see racism are ignoring it, its a matter of you trying to see racism in everything. you're probably one of those people who if you get fired from a job, you'll cry racism!... ofcourse it wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that you may be useless... and you're firing has absolutely nothing to do with the color of your skin.

I haven't read all the comments yet but I'm tired of all these stupid arguments people are making about Spike. If you don't like his movies fine, but I'm sick of all these dumbasses getting bent out of shape when Spike speaks up about racial issues. Its a fact that white men write history and leave other groups out of the picture. Spike should have given Clint credit for doing a movie from the enemie's perspective which Hollywood rarely does, but my grandfather served in WWII and you rarely hear about the contributions of African-Americans during the war or at the very least their experiences during the war. And its not just the African American experience, but other racial groups as well that get ignored.

Is it possible your wrong? First of all I don't agree that racism is rare. You could argue that racism is diminishing, maybe even argue that its drastically going away, but your lying to yourself when u say that its rare. I don't know how often I've got white coworkers making negative comments about blacks when they didn't think anyone who cared was around. I've even heard the n-word a few times. Also racism is also more than just one individual discriminating against people of color. Racism can be and has been institutionalized. Banks are less likely to give loans to black people even if their income earnings and credit ratings are the equivalent of their white counterparts. Also several studies have been done that prove white employers are less likely to hire well qualified candidates if they are able to tell the candidate is black somehow. Also a governmental report is due out this year that heavily documents how racism is still an issue. So don't just mistake your personal opinions and biases as "facts". Do some research and listen to those who u don't agree with to see if they make any valid arugments. My guess is you've probably never really had a discussion with someone who doesn't agree with u because u think u know it all and have it all figured out.

I'm just curious, The book is about cults and the movie is basically an update of do the right thing taking place during the times of the sos murders. I think its his second best film, Do the Right thing is a film about racism and SOS is a film about intolerance and homophobia. It really is the spiritual successor. But I do plan on reading the book.

right back at ya buddy, u don't think you could be wrong? if you're more sensitive to it then you can start seeing racism in everything, and then you can start getting into that 'sub-conscious racist' shit. i DO think racism is a problem today... when u say i think its rare, what i said was that in some areas and demographics it is rare, but in other areas its abundant. like obviously there are groups that discriminate against blacks, and others that discriminate against whites etc. but those groups don't represent the opinions of the majority. I think its terrible that alot of black kids are not offered the same opportunities that alot of white kids are, and i think that its an ongoing cycle in that the poorer communities and families can't get into better schools and get good education and set on good careers, so some resort to crime, go to jail etc, have families of their own and the cycle repeats itself. obviously thats a very simplistic way of putting it but you know what i mean. anyway my point is that i don't believe racism is the main cause of it, as in the powers that be deliberately don't supress these people because of the color of their skin. also i don't like how you phrase the results of these alleged studies by saying they 'prove white employers are less likely to hire well qualified candidates if they are able to tell the candidate is black'. and how do these studies PROVE infallibly that a white employer will always take a white candidate over an equally qualified black candidate? i hope that was just an unintentional blanket statement you made. anyway can u list the names (and links) of those studies you talk about, i would like to read them for myself.