... one instance involving one individual is obviously not very convincing ... my intention is not to convince ... only to suggest a direction to look in. Telling people ... who decide to look in a direction proposed ... what to see .... Buddhists call "unskilled".

On with my proposed direction.

About 400 years ago a Jesuit Missionary who spent his adult life in China ... at some point during his life in China he went out on a limb and suggested to his superiors in the Vatican in Rome that the Chinese people already know the Christian God. Needless to say this likely went over like a shit sandwich! Such heresy!!

Again ... about 400 years ago his application for Sainthood was blocked by the Vatican ... likely in no small part for his heretic thoughts.

A few years ago his application for Sainthood was put back on the table. Recently Pope Francis applauded his "intuition" ... whatever that means.

"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

No I would not suggest that Eastern religions do not believe in a god within. Abrams believes that our emerging god includes our interactions with the physical world, that God is not spiritual as in other worldly, but is part of the physical universe, expressed in part in the anthropic principle, but including all life past and future. For her God is the human need to interact with nature and with other people. Hers is a naturalistic religion in which man's highest aspirations emerge as god and become man's higher power. Her god is personal and universal, but is not supernatural.Julian Huxley would have loved Abrams' book because it is concerned with all mankind and notes that human destiny should be the goal of religious endeavors. (See my thread on A Natural Religion)

"We must love one another or die." W.H.AudenI admit I'm an asshole. Now, can we get back to the conversation?From the mad poet of McKinley Ave.

Ierrellus wrote:No I would not suggest that Eastern religions do not believe in a god within. Abrams believes that our emerging god includes our interactions with the physical world, that God is not spiritual as in other worldly, but is part of the physical universe, expressed in part in the anthropic principle, but including all life past and future. For her God is the human need to interact with nature and with other people. Hers is a naturalistic religion in which man's highest aspirations emerge as god and become man's higher power. Her god is personal and universal, but is not supernatural.Julian Huxley would have loved Abrams' book because it is concerned with all mankind and notes that human destiny should be the goal of religious endeavors. (See my thread on A Natural Religion)

Ah, so she believes in both theosis and pantheism. I am similar. Abrams vaguely sounds like Martine Rothblatt's Terasem Movement Transreligion that gained a slight audience. Rothblatt's beliefs were that of a naturalistic religion - one that does not believe in souls but believes in mankind's destiny to create the divine within the Universe. Through technology. Trans-humanism. She figures that all life will be made anew again, someday. It also vaguely sounds like The Omega Point, coined by the Catholic priest, Pierre Teilhard de Chardin.

(This post went from RC to something else and back to RC, in a thread that is named, '"I Am God" Stuff'... Very interesting...)

"Anybody got a problem with the way I live? I don't want to go to Heaven if I can't get in!"

Mackerni wrote:(This post went from RC to something else and back to RC, in a thread that is named, '"I Am God" Stuff'... Very interesting...)

The RC church continues to evolve ... albeit almost always in a reactive mode versus proactive. The RC institution changes when it can no longer control the story. For example, Galileo, Copernicus, Columbus, Luther, Ricci and more recently Pierre Teillard de Chardin.

Nonetheless ... the very survival of all large institutions .. religious, political, economic, social and so on ... depends in no small part on their prescience ... ability to identify changing conditions early and adapt/evolve with such changes. A willingness to change or adapt is often not enough ... reading the signs is of paramount importance. Like the farmers who must learn to read the signs for impending weather conditions.

Reminds me of an experience on one of my trips to Israel about 20 years ago. In Jerusalem ... I was staying in a hostel in the Old City at the time. I woke up around 3:00 AM one morning and decided to go out for a walk ... unusual for me. I walked into the new city ... to a Dunkin Donuts I had discovered in a previous visit ... seems my coffee and cigarette addiction is a good thing from time to time.

In the coffee shop I browsed a paper that was sitting on the counter ... I found an article that I've kept ... remains one of my few possessions. The closing paragraph in this article speaks to my above comments.

Woe to the man who says that this Tora wishes to relate simple stories.” We must internalize the profound truth hidden herein. Great events in our national existence cannot be understood and decisions that will shape our people’s future cannot be made in the ‘Yishaq mode.’ In order to perceive the direction and orientation that must be assumed, to come to terms with the steps that must be taken, and to possess the self-assuredness simply to know when something is right, and to be therefore willing to lead the way -for all these, something more than rigid loyalty to tradition is required. Our Geula, which was prophetically mapped out for us long ago, is the. ‘What.’ We must supply the ‘How.’ Rav David Bar Hayim is the head of the Makhon Ben Yishai Institute for Tora Research in Jerusalem

"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”

"Ge'ulah," describes the state of being aware of (i.e., knowing) G-d. This results from a detailed understanding of how G-d created (and constantly sustains) the world(s), as Chassidus teaches.

Hence, for e.g., we find in "From Exile to redemption," The Rebbe's teaching that the difference between exile (Golah) and redemption (Ge'Ulah) is the letter "Aleph," which the Alter Rebbe says represents the "Alupho Shel Olam," i.e. G-d.

"Do not be influenced by the importance of the writer, and whether his learning be great or small; but let the love of pure truth draw you to read. Do not inquire, “Who said this?” but pay attention to what is said”