I remember a lot of people in heroics being dumb as a brick, though. That's why I had a white, gray, and blacklist. I don't have one now because it doesn't matter, as I either queue with guildies or hop into a queue and get random people I'll never see again.

I agree it wasn't a catchall, but at least the folks who got keys were persistent. Imagine all the players you didn't have to try grouping with.

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Originally Posted by Nobleshield

The difficulty of Cata dungeons weren't from the dungeons themselves (although most of the trash was total garbage; I don't mind some CC but not every damn pack) but from the fact you were expected to use LFG and group with random people with random skills. The TBC model of hard heroics as a stepping stone to raids falls apart and gets shown for how bad it truly is when you group with random strangers that you can't gauge until you see them in action

one thing to add to this pertinent point - there was no real party leader in LFG - you get stuck with a jerk or someone who doesn't know how to run with marked pulls/cc, you may very well be unable to remove them as well.

One nice exercise is to imagine TBC having had LFG for tbc heroics with only an ilvl gating mechanism, say 110 avg or so. It would have been an identical outcome - mass nerfing of content to the brain-dead level because otherwise lfg couldn't reliably complete it. hell even picked player pugs with a few randoms often couldn't finish even easier ones.

Leveling gear, LFD, the new skills and talents system and all the xp buffs you can get makes leveling so damn easy these day's.
Which isn't a bad thing btw, I had my hard time leveling, now I am fine with how it is !

yeah i had fun leveling my first few characters to 60, and it taking me months (i was slow!) but now i just want to get to 90, not spend ages leveling! i made a new alt warrior 2 days ago, no heirlooms and im 60 already

yeah i had fun leveling my first few characters to 60, and it taking me months (i was slow!) but now i just want to get to 90, not spend ages leveling! i made a new alt warrior 2 days ago, no heirlooms and im 60 already

this is a pretty big design change - removing leveling as a meaningful player time investment/experience. for the average player, getting to 60/70pre-2.3 meant months of sub revenue for blizzard by itself.

Too much grinding in Vanilla. But I will be happy to see content that reward players if they do stuff with more skill. Like leveling buff that make you weaker, but give you extra xp. Or real heroic 5 man, where one mistake is a wipe, but give you real gear.

You have to choose one organisation (nation), get a membership cards (passport) and obey.