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Re: Can Mike Trout field?

ONE TIME in your life (except old-timers LOL). Say that over-and-over (one time in my life, one time in my life). Not often something happens once in your life in MLB.

So... a question. If Trout had had 2 more hits last year, and Miggy 1 less, would you have to rethink who the Most Valuable Player was in the AL? Because, that's the difference between Miggy's Triple Crown and just being another guy who led the league in HR and RBI.

Also, this year Miggy is going to have more HR, more RBI, more hits, a much higher BA, and even much higher OB% and slg%. Is this season not as special, because he's only going to come in 2nd in HR (most likely)?

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Originally Posted by RedLegsToday

So... a question. If Trout had had 2 more hits last year, and Miggy 1 less, would you have to rethink who the Most Valuable Player was in the AL? Because, that's the difference between Miggy's Triple Crown and just being another guy who led the league in HR and RBI.

Also, this year Miggy is going to have more HR, more RBI, more hits, a much higher BA, and even much higher OB% and slg%. Is this season not as special, because he's only going to come in 2nd in HR (most likely)?

Despite IF being a big word for only having two letters... yes. Only b/c of the season Trout had. This season is great too, but has nothing to do with last year. And as it stands he should win again barring injury (unless you are named Josh Hamilton lol). I will ask how many Triple Crown winners have there been in your life (no if this or that... it was a Triple Crown or it was not)? More horses have won the Triple Crown in my life than MLB players. And I am not sure many of those horses were said to have only won the Belmont/Preakness/KY-Derby by a nose or what if they had stumbled around turn two or thrown their jockey. A Triple Crown is special. 16 times in MLB history... compared to 33 perfect games. A very rare and impressive feat.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Trout gained weight from last season. He added more bulk. He isn't quite as fast as he was last year. Still really fast, but a step slower.

I maintained last year that Trout's speed was his main competitive advantage over Cabrera. But his bat plus his speed do not put his 2012 season on a short list of best seasons ever.

As for losing a step, I will guarantee you he hasn't. A step over 40 yards is a massive gap (somewhere north of 0.3 seconds). It is just about impossible for a pro athlete who keeps himself in good shape (and Trout does) to lose that kind of speed in a single year, especially at age 22. It can take a decade to lose that kind of speed.

Baseball isn't a magic trick ... it doesn't get spoiled if you figure out how it works. - gonelong

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

I maintained last year that Trout's speed was his main competitive advantage over Cabrera. But his bat plus his speed do not put his 2012 season on a short list of best seasons ever.

As for losing a step, I will guarantee you he hasn't. A step over 40 yards is a massive gap (somewhere north of 0.3 seconds). It is just about impossible for a pro athlete who keeps himself in good shape (and Trout does) to lose that kind of speed in a single year, especially at age 22. It can take a decade to lose that kind of speed.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

Funny. Neither Babe Ruth nor Willie Mays ever won a triple crown. Those guys must not be as good as Miggie either.

Rarity does not imply value. We could sit here all day and come up with things that have happened only once in the last 40 years. What makes them valuable is how much they actually have to do with the winning baseball games.

This has nothing to do with shoving anything in anybody's face. It's asking people to thinking a tiny bit harder than "ONE TIME IN YOUR LIFE, ONE TIME IN YOUR LIFE, ONE TIME IN YOUR LIFE" as if that actually had meaning in and of itself.

By the way, guess the last time somebody had 30 HR, 45 SB and 125 Runs Scored? Well, Mike Trout. Before him.... oh wait, nobody had ever done that before. Say it over and over again: NOBODY HAD EVER DONE THAT BEFORE. NOBODY HAD EVER DONE THAT BEFORE.

If rarity is what counts, Trout wins. If you want to actually look at the value of the things we're counting, sabermetricians are happy to have that conversation.

Nobody has ever done it but Eric Davis was 37/50/120 in 129 games and was 9th in MVP....37/50/120 is better than 30/45/125

Bobby Bonds topped those stats a couple time and just missed the 30/45/125 4x....often just under one but over on the other two.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Nobody has ever done it but Eric Davis was 37/50/120 in 129 games and was 9th in MVP....37/50/120 is better than 30/45/125

Bobby Bonds topped those stats a couple time and just missed the 30/45/125 4x....often just under one but over on the other two.

Alfonso Soriano was 41/46/119....finished 6th MVP

Ok. Now let's do that with Miguel Cabrera. Hopefully you see the point. Arbitrary numbers of arbitrary stats don't necessarily imply anything about MVP worthiness.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

The MVP debates will never end as long as it's called the Most Valuable Player award instead of the Most Outstanding Player award. Some people think value is a relative term, and context matters. Others think value is something that can be expressed in a quantitative measurement. Here's the thing: the dictionary says you're both right. Thus the irreconcilable differences.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

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Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Originally Posted by IslandRed

The MVP debates will never end as long as it's called the Most Valuable Player award instead of the Most Outstanding Player award. Some people think value is a relative term, and context matters. Others think value is something that can be expressed in a quantitative measurement. Here's the thing: the dictionary says you're both right. Thus the irreconcilable differences.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

After 1130 defensive innings this year, UZR thinks he's a +4 run defender and he may end up +5 or 6 by October. Not a huge difference from his +13 of last season.

"This isnít stats vs scouts - this is stats and scouts working together, building an organization that blends the best of both worlds. This is the blueprint for how a baseball organization should be run. And, whether the baseball men of the 20th century like it or not, this is where baseball is going."---Dave Cameron, U.S.S. Mariner

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Originally Posted by jojo

After 1130 defensive innings this year, UZR thinks he's a +4 run defender and he may end up +5 or 6 by October. Not a huge difference from his +13 of last season.

Metrics aside....his burst from home to 1st was upper echelon elite. I time a lot of runners to 1st when I'm wow'd by their speed. His 3.65 is the fastest I've timed all year. I did time Dee Gordon at 3.62 one time last year and Tony Campana 3.58.....but they are lefties. His going 1st to 3rd on that play may have been even more impressive. From his lead off 1st to 3rd base 6.55 seconds, crazy fast.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

So basically he's not stealing the bases and maybe not reeling in as many balls in the OF....but his 100 foot burst is unbelievable and it's are to believe there are balls that he got to last year that he can't get now.

Re: Can Mike Trout field?

Originally Posted by Ironman92

So basically he's not stealing the bases and maybe not reeling in as many balls in the OF....but his 100 foot burst is unbelievable and it's are to believe there are balls that he got to last year that he can't get now.

Last year he hit exclusively leadoff and played more games in CF. This year he has been 2/3 hole hitter and played more LF than last year. Both of those things probably contribute at least somewhat to the lower SB and defensive ratings.

Regardless of what the WAR stats say he is clearly a better player this year. He got off to a slow start in April, but since then he has slash of .462/.616/1.078 since May 1st. for a guy that just turned 22.

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