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The moderators discussed this and we agree that if there were BDSM or furries or what-have-you ASKING for a section of the forum where they could discuss their special issues as pertains to polyamory, that would be a stronger argument than creating a separate section to corral those types of threads just because some people are sick of seeing it come up in situations every so often.

However, we are long overdue for a conference with Olivier (the owner, who doesn't really participate in the discussion threads) and we plan to ask him if he would like to create a sub-forum (no pun intended) for any type of alternative lifestyle + poly, should people of like-mind choose to use that to mingle with each other. This is not something we are empowered to do without explicit permission from him.

Also, we do not expect this to happen before the forum software upgrade, which went into "testing" almost a year ago IIRC, and is supposed to have a section where people can be in more control over their own blogs.

(i.e. It's an idea worth considering but the change can't be made yet, for reasons outside the moderators' control.)

It only remains for me to clarify my stand:

a) If I gave the idea that I'm "sick of seeing it come up in situations every so often", then I apologise. Different strokes for different folks. I may not understand, but I'm not sickened.

b) A problem I do have (and I may be pretty much an exceptional case here) is that because I'm new to this whole topic (as a topic), because I live very much back-water and don't get to Internet often, a LOT of the terminology is confusing (this means that I don't know the hell what people are talking about). Some of the terms have other meanings outside the poly and/or BDSM scene: unicorns, furries, power exchange, primary/secondary... and I've found myself (as I wrote in my first comment on this thread) naively commenting on BDSM relationships without knowing that that was what was being discussed - and perhaps coming across as a total berk.

c) To answer Magdlyn re: my statement, "considering myself (among other definitions) a feminist, I find it hard to imagine a master/slave dynamic as having much to do with love and mutual respect."

Quote:

Originally Posted by Magdlyn

You're making the assumption that all Doms are male and all subs are female?

There are female Dommes with male slaves or subs, and gay males and ardent feminist lesbians of both proclivities, Dom or sub, for example. (Google "On Our Backs" magazine.)

I make no such assumption.

1) Please notice those parentheses: "(among other definitions)".

2) Having said that, I would point out that there are many different flavours of feminism, most of which can be divided into 2 main groups:
i) "Feminist" means we want women to be allowed to have the same rights as / act like / earn as much as / belong to the same clubs as / etc. etc.... men.
ii) "Feminist" means we aspire to a new kind of interpersonal relationships without inequalities and malaises rife in standard patriarchal society: powerful/powerless, master/servant, boss/worker, owner/owned, buyer/seller...
I belong to the 2nd group of feminist thinking. The group that would never demonstrate for women's rights in the military, because we'd like to demilitarise the World. The group that believes, for example, that - far from being a feminist icon - Margaret Thatcher (first woman Prime Minister of the UK) was about the most macho, anti-feminist PM in recent history.

3) If you want to play at soldiers / capitalist (Monopoly is a great favourite) / master-slave and it's only a pasttime, that's your business (though personally - and I know that I'm being an extremist and very subjective here - I wish we could find more positive ways of enjoying ourselves). But my gut feeling tells me that the games we play affect our everyday personalities. And I suspect that for some in the BDSM scene, it's more than just a game.

__________________If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.

- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence

The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.

- old Chinese proverb

And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

ii) "Feminist" means we aspire to a new kind of interpersonal relationships without inequalities and malaises rife in standard patriarchal society: powerful/powerless, master/servant, boss/worker, owner/owned, buyer/seller...

Emotional healing thru an inequal power exchange is quite common. "Good" Masters are interested in their sub's healing and emotional growth. (I personally know several couples who have experienced this, and in fact in my own relationship w my gf, even tho I am not fully her Domme, I am more assertive and sometimes she does just ask me to make decisions for her. Also she has said she feels "safe" when bound by a trusted partner.) Take this article as a case in point. I found it by googling "emotional healing thru bdsm."

Is the BDSM Lifestyle a Healing Experience for Submissives or Dominants Recovering from Trauma?

The best book I have read on this topic is Radical Ecstasy. (The authors wrote the poly classic, The Ethical Slut.)

Amazon review of Rad Ecstasy

Quote:

If you're looking for a how-to book of tying up your partner, techniques for using tools, what parts of the body are safe to strike, etc., you'll have to look elsewhere in other books that cover these subjects. If, on the other hand, you want to know why on Earth would anybody want to do this in the first place, you've hit the jackpot in "Radical Ecstasy."

If you think BDSM is all about cruelty, Dossie and Janet will convince you otherwise. They are incredibly articulate about psychological processes that are nearly impossible to describe. Come along with players on their journeys to the darkest, scariest parts of their minds and watch them emerge cleansed, whole, free, and (most importantly of all) LOVED by their play partners. Their role-plays may well be more effective than hypnosis or years of therapy on a shrink's couch. The authors feel their words do not do the experiences justice, but truly they are too modest.

I had the good fortune to meet Dossie and Janet at a Polyamory convention, having already read their classic "The Ethical Slut" which is far-and-away the best and most practical book about the dynamics of Polyamory. They are cool ladies who would be mistaken for ordinary vanilla if you didn't know otherwise. "Radical Ecstasy" is every bit as revelatory as "The Ethical Slut," opening up a whole new world for me.

At one point in reading it, I collapsed in cathartic laughter that made tears stream down my face, when I suddenly realized that I had always been fascinated with bondage games, even as early as age 8. My obsession with "Perils of Pauline" scenes became a source of enormous ridicule from my schoolmates, so embarrasing I never dared breathe a word of it to anyone for more than 30 years. At long last, Dossie and Janet proved that there was nothing wrong with me after all! I was merely trying to act out a logical resolution to the school-bully problem. My first-ever night at a BDSM club saw me tied to a St. Andrew's Cross while wearing the most demure, innocent, Victorian-vintage lace dress imaginable. Eventually, I might finally get to act out a resistance/takedown/rescue scene where I get chased all over the dungeon . . .

THANK YOU, Dossie and Janet, for sharing your amazing love with the world.

__________________Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. --Shaw

me: Mags, female, pansexual, 59, loving and living with
miss pixi, female, pansexual, 37
I am in a somewhat new relationship with Luka

__________________Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. --Shaw

me: Mags, female, pansexual, 59, loving and living with
miss pixi, female, pansexual, 37
I am in a somewhat new relationship with Luka

How about "tired". Is that better than "sick"? "tired of seeing it come up in situations every so often". Ever heard of two little things called metaphor and hyperbole?

For crying out loud.... **I** apologize OK? for IMPLYING or ASSUMING that you or anyone else was "sickened".

No one can relax around here for a goddamned millisecond....

Hey! Keep your shirt on, OK?

I joked on another thread that I'm seriously considering changing my user name to ResidentPedant. Just a joke, but this is an international site and as a fluent speaker of several languages, I know how subtle nuances can get so easily misinterpreted - even by native speakers of the same language. [I took part in one thread where some senior members tried to give helpful advice and the newbies took it very badly and threatened to leave and never return. Some people's policy might be "don't pamper them: let 'em leave" but in the short time I've been on here I have witnessed a lot of pain, and it'd be nice if those of us with more experience in polyamory - and in talking about our emotions - showed a bit more patience with people who are struggling with it.]

However, that's by-the-bye. I didn't attack you, I wanted to clarify myself (and was willing to apologise to anybody who'd misunderstood my first comment)... and I ended up not doing a very good job. Because I'm NOT sick or tired of "seeing it come up in situations every so often". I personally haven't seen it all that often. I've only been contributing to this site since the 9th of February this year, and only a few days each week at that.

HOWEVER, nycindie made a suggestion that I felt deserved serious consideration and I threw in my tuppence [two cents] worth. I have been slightly affected by the situation, and I can imagine others (who've been on here longer) to have come across it more often. And if some people are bothered by the issue, I vote for the creation of the BDSM section.

__________________If I can't dance, I want no part in your Revolution.

- Emma Goldman Anarchist and Polyamorous par excellence

The person who says something is impossible should not interrupt the person who is doing it.

- old Chinese proverb

And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom.

__________________Love withers under constraint; its very essence is liberty. It is compatible neither with envy, jealousy or fear. It is there most pure, perfect and unlimited when its votaries live in confidence, equality and unreserve. -- Shelley

The single biggest problem with communication is the illusion that it has taken place. --Shaw

me: Mags, female, pansexual, 59, loving and living with
miss pixi, female, pansexual, 37
I am in a somewhat new relationship with Luka

I like that it's not segregated. I probably wouldn't go much in a specific BDSM forum, and I'd miss a bunch of things. I like hearing about different lifestyles and I don't think I should have to go look for them, I much prefer seeing them among the "regular" populace. Otherwise, it kind of gives a "you're freaks, stay away from us" vibe, I feel.

@ MrFarFromRight, I understand why you wouldn't like D/s if you're against any power and any one being hierarchically higher than anyone else, period. I mean, that basically means being against the concept of a president or prime minister, a boss in a company, a manager... I personally don't get it. It's wonderful having other people's input or help. If I'm someone's subordinate, I can just accomplish the needed tasks without having to figure out what tasks are needed. If I'm someone's manager, I can direct everyone to reach the needed goal and keeping my energy for other things that needs to be worked on so I don't have to do all the work.
They're all about cooperation. Just because one person is called the boss and the other the employee doesn't mean one is worth more than the other.

But BDSM is about more than D/s. You also have BD and SM. And these aren't necessarily about power. You could think that being blindfolded is about power, but it could be about not being able to see so you can focus on your other senses and have a more intense experience. As for pain, it leads to endorphines, so it's easy to understand how it's linked to pleasure, I feel. And the Sadist part of a SM pair could very well be the sub of a D/s pair.

I guess I really don't understand your objections to D/s. I mean, we all spend our lives hoping for others to make decisions for us. Decide what we're eating, decide what to buy... there are programs all over the net that you can have tell you to do your chores so you don't have to remember. Is it so hard to imagine someone could want the same things in a sexual context?