Not sure if this has been mentioned before but during the last episode I realized that their plane is an homage to Serenity. It's really evident in the bay which is almost identical to the one in Firefly (watch the zoom out in the last scene from ep 3), I bet the plane layout and design was intentionally done like that by Josh.

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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

ABCís Tuesday night heroes are sticking around for a full season as Marvelís Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. is getting a full season order. ABC has picked up the back-nine episodes to round out a full traditional 22-episode season

While I faithfully watch it via ABC's web site on Wednesday evenings (working late pretty much every Tuesday now, natch), I'll confess none of the characters are really grabbing me.

imho, they're following the "police procedural" template too closely, and so characters just feel like surface stereotypes (the goofy techies, the cutie cynical hacker, the stoic tough guy, the bitter former field agent) who barely ever make an impression.

Though to be fair, most procedurals feel they have to start that way, and then gradually they shift to more character-based stories. Oddly with me, some procedural shows I liked more during those early "focus on the cases" days -- CSI and House with me -- and then the more they fixated on the characters, the less interested I was.

Who knows with Agents... I hope it stays on the air long enough to evolve in some way.

Not sure if this has been mentioned before but during the last episode I realized that their plane is an homage to Serenity. It's really evident in the bay which is almost identical to the one in Firefly (watch the zoom out in the last scene from ep 3), I bet the plane layout and design was intentionally done like that by Josh.

I noticed the same thing this week. Something about the angle of the bay door or something just clicked Firefly in my brain.

I think they made a little progress story-wise on the hunk dude and hacker girl, but I do agree the show is still feeling a little lackluster. I understand that they don't want to rely too heavily on super-powered stuff but I also think they shouldn't outright avoid it. Honestly SHIELD never interested me much in the comics whatsoever except for direct involvement with the superheroes/villains. At some point I'd hope they would embrace some direct interaction with a "real" super-powered character from the comics, not necessarily one of the core Avengers...

I think they're reusing pieces, but the reality is the Firefly, and later Serenity set were both torn down a long time ago.

A plane, a high school, an old hotel, an underground cyberwhore facility, or a spaceship, I guess people realize having the main ensemble cast both forced to stay together, and also isolated it a nice recipe for drama.

I think they're reusing pieces, but the reality is the Firefly, and later Serenity set were both torn down a long time ago.

A plane, a high school, an old hotel, an underground cyberwhore facility, or a spaceship, I guess people realize having the main ensemble cast both forced to stay together, and also isolated it a nice recipe for drama.

Yeah I didn't mean to imply that they reused the set, I just think the layout is similar, especially the cargo bay.

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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

I think I know what the problem is so far. The episodes are paced more like movies, rather than snappier TV show episodes. The dialog, and stuff like camera lingers are all paced for movies, like The Avengers, rather than a shorter TV show.

On the other hand, they're building up a lot of things to pay off for a longer run TV Show.

For me, the problem is the huge disconnect between the Marvel universe and this show. I know they're focusing on the non-super part of the universe, but, other than the occasional mention of a superhero, the characters act like none of the Marvel stuff even exists. In the latest episode, the characters completely dismissed the possibility of telepathy/precognition and were amazed by a micro camera that fits in a person's eye. In a world where people have seen the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man suit, this just doesn't make any sense. It would be like watching a Harry Potter TV show and having the characters be amazed by a magician pulling a rabbit out of a hat.

Also, regarding last night's show, was anyone else confused by the part at the beginning? Why were people trying to secretly move diamonds by creating such a conspicuous scene? Why were the people on the street and subway barely reacting to such a bizarre sight? Why did it look so much like a scene from a deranged version of Deal or No Deal

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"Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the same side." - The Big Bang Theory

I know they're focusing on the non-super part of the universe, but, other than the occasional mention of a superhero, the characters act like none of the Marvel stuff even exists. In the latest episode, the characters completely dismissed the possibility of telepathy/precognition and were amazed by a micro camera that fits in a person's eye. In a world where people have seen the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man suit, this just doesn't make any sense.

Actually, they played it both ways. I get that they were amazed at the eye tech, as their top techies said that SHIELD was at least 10 years away from that kind of thing. Its not that they didnt think it was possible, they were amazed that someone else had it before them. As far as the superhero thing, yeah they are intentionally trying to keep some separation but I think they have a formula in mind wants to keep that stuff mostly on the back burner while they develop the team dynamic. I think that this will change further into the season but they dont want to shoot their wad right at the beginning. Like most Whedon shows they are going for that build up, instead. As far as dismissing telepathy, yep the science nerds did but Skye directly mentioned the New York event as why its possible. In reality people tend to deny things they cant accept. Hell, people still dismiss the Moon Landing as faked and theres even a Flat Earth society out there. Its not much of a leap to think that people heavily based in science would have a hard time accepting the supernatural nature of telepathy.

I know they're focusing on the non-super part of the universe, but, other than the occasional mention of a superhero, the characters act like none of the Marvel stuff even exists. In the latest episode, the characters completely dismissed the possibility of telepathy/precognition and were amazed by a micro camera that fits in a person's eye. In a world where people have seen the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man suit, this just doesn't make any sense.

Actually, they played it both ways. I get that they were amazed at the eye tech, as their top techies said that SHIELD was at least 10 years away from that kind of thing. Its not that they didnt think it was possible, they were amazed that someone else had it before them. As far as the superhero thing, yeah they are intentionally trying to keep some separation but I think they have a formula in mind wants to keep that stuff mostly on the back burner while they develop the team dynamic. I think that this will change further into the season but they dont want to shoot their wad right at the beginning. Like most Whedon shows they are going for that build up, instead. As far as dismissing telepathy, yep the science nerds did but Skye directly mentioned the New York event as why its possible. In reality people tend to deny things they cant accept. Hell, people still dismiss the Moon Landing as faked and theres even a Flat Earth society out there. Its not much of a leap to think that people heavily based in science would have a hard time accepting the supernatural nature of telepathy.

Also, the existence of known superheroes is still in its infancy in this world. The NY Event is a very big deal, and the general populace is still trying to get its head around it. Other events have been covered up by SHIELD previous to this.

Cap was the prototype, of course, but then nothing until Iron Man, really. He was public knowledge, of course, but Hulk was an urban legend before Avengers, and I don't thnk Thor was even that.

This show was never going to be about superheroes, and they don't want it to turn into mutant of the week, either. They do mention the stuff in NYC often enough, and I don't know that there's much to talk about besides that. The can't talk about properties that are tied up in other licenses, and they don't want to talk about the known heroes much for fear of stepping on their sequel movies.

That said, I imagine we'll be seeing some big hero or other pop in somehow in November, February and May. My money is on the Hulk, if they can afford the SFX, but they could go with a lower level character (Wasp, maybe?).

I know they're focusing on the non-super part of the universe, but, other than the occasional mention of a superhero, the characters act like none of the Marvel stuff even exists. In the latest episode, the characters completely dismissed the possibility of telepathy/precognition and were amazed by a micro camera that fits in a person's eye. In a world where people have seen the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man suit, this just doesn't make any sense.

Actually, they played it both ways. I get that they were amazed at the eye tech, as their top techies said that SHIELD was at least 10 years away from that kind of thing. Its not that they didnt think it was possible, they were amazed that someone else had it before them. As far as the superhero thing, yeah they are intentionally trying to keep some separation but I think they have a formula in mind wants to keep that stuff mostly on the back burner while they develop the team dynamic. I think that this will change further into the season but they dont want to shoot their wad right at the beginning. Like most Whedon shows they are going for that build up, instead. As far as dismissing telepathy, yep the science nerds did but Skye directly mentioned the New York event as why its possible. In reality people tend to deny things they cant accept. Hell, people still dismiss the Moon Landing as faked and theres even a Flat Earth society out there. Its not much of a leap to think that people heavily based in science would have a hard time accepting the supernatural nature of telepathy.

So we're supposed to assume that SHIELD has no awareness of a little known group called THE FREAKING X-MEN?!?! I agree with EddieA, there is just too much disconnect. The X-Men were supposedly known to the govt/CIA for decades, but SHIELD wasn't told about this? OK so this is a Marvel Universe where the X-Men don't exist? What about Spider Man? They've got to figure out and define what exactly this version of the Marvel Universe is or they are going to run into problems with consistency which will plague the writers over the longer term.

This last episode was better directed (Roxann Dawson woot!) but as mentioned it still feels like more "single story" stuff with minor setup for the future. Sadly I again fell asleep toward the end so that pretty much says a lot.

I know they're focusing on the non-super part of the universe, but, other than the occasional mention of a superhero, the characters act like none of the Marvel stuff even exists. In the latest episode, the characters completely dismissed the possibility of telepathy/precognition and were amazed by a micro camera that fits in a person's eye. In a world where people have seen the likes of Thor, the Hulk, and Iron Man suit, this just doesn't make any sense.

Actually, they played it both ways. I get that they were amazed at the eye tech, as their top techies said that SHIELD was at least 10 years away from that kind of thing. Its not that they didnt think it was possible, they were amazed that someone else had it before them. As far as the superhero thing, yeah they are intentionally trying to keep some separation but I think they have a formula in mind wants to keep that stuff mostly on the back burner while they develop the team dynamic. I think that this will change further into the season but they dont want to shoot their wad right at the beginning. Like most Whedon shows they are going for that build up, instead. As far as dismissing telepathy, yep the science nerds did but Skye directly mentioned the New York event as why its possible. In reality people tend to deny things they cant accept. Hell, people still dismiss the Moon Landing as faked and theres even a Flat Earth society out there. Its not much of a leap to think that people heavily based in science would have a hard time accepting the supernatural nature of telepathy.

So we're supposed to assume that SHIELD has no awareness of a little known group called THE FREAKING X-MEN?!?! I agree with EddieA, there is just too much disconnect. The X-Men were supposedly known to the govt/CIA for decades, but SHIELD wasn't told about this? OK so this is a Marvel Universe where the X-Men don't exist? What about Spider Man? They've got to figure out and define what exactly this version of the Marvel Universe is or they are going to run into problems with consistency which will plague the writers over the longer term.

This last episode was better directed (Roxann Dawson woot!) but as mentioned it still feels like more "single story" stuff with minor setup for the future. Sadly I again fell asleep toward the end so that pretty much says a lot.

They can't reference the X-Men, as that license is owned by Fox. They can't talk about Spidey, as he's owned by Sony. They will not be talking about any of those characters unless some kind of deal is struck.

Honestly, you just have to get over that.

I'm sure there will be references to other characters to which Marvel does still own the rights, and as I said, I'm sure we'll see at least one during each of the sweeps periods, but they'll get in trouble if they even allude to the ones not in their stable.

Like Bullwinkle said, a lot of it is about licensing...This goes for pretty much all of the comic based movies and shows...None of the Spider-Man movies referenced the Avengers or Fantastic Four, even though there was some major problems going on and Reed Richards helped with the original Venom..Plus, the SHIELD show is really about special events.. Nothing that requires the Avengers.. Maybe eventually... But it's a show about SHIELD, not the Avengers...

I realize the licensing issues are complicated, and that the show is intentionally not about the superheroes themselves. But it's a Marvel comic book show based on characters in the Marvel universe; a good writer could have made an indirect reference to mutant powers without actually directly mentioning X-Men or mutants. SHIELD has already been established as being the covert clean up, behind the scenes organization that should know things even the CIA and inner govt circle may not be aware of. While they don't have to acknowledge a hero directly, for consistency's sake they should at least be aware that telepaths, mutants, magic, etc all exist.

SHIELD just helped a GOD fight off an alien invasion coming through a wormhole in the sky; telepathy is pretty mundane in comparison IMHO. Honestly the easiest thing is to just not bring things up if they aren't sure how to deal with them. I would hate to see the kind of crap writing and inconsistency that plagued Heroes take this show down.

SHIELD has already been established as being the covert clean up, behind the scenes organization that should know things even the CIA and inner govt circle may not be aware of. While they don't have to acknowledge a hero directly, for consistency's sake they should at least be aware that telepaths, mutants, magic, etc all exist.

SHIELD just helped a GOD fight off an alien invasion coming through a wormhole in the sky; telepathy is pretty mundane in comparison IMHO.

This is what I was talking about. SHIELD agents should be thoroughly briefed in everything SHIELD knows about superhumans, Iron Man's technology, etc. As a newcomer, Skye should be the one who's amazed by things, yet she seems the most open-minded. It's still very early in the series, of course, and I'm just going to chalk last night's episode up to bad writing. The show still works as an action/adventure, but I'm hoping they'll get a little more out-there as the series goes on.

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"Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the same side." - The Big Bang Theory

SHIELD has already been established as being the covert clean up, behind the scenes organization that should know things even the CIA and inner govt circle may not be aware of. While they don't have to acknowledge a hero directly, for consistency's sake they should at least be aware that telepaths, mutants, magic, etc all exist.

SHIELD just helped a GOD fight off an alien invasion coming through a wormhole in the sky; telepathy is pretty mundane in comparison IMHO.

This is what I was talking about. SHIELD agents should be thoroughly briefed in everything SHIELD knows about superhumans, Iron Man's technology, etc. As a newcomer, Skye should be the one who's amazed by things, yet she seems the most open-minded. It's still very early in the series, of course, and I'm just going to chalk last night's episode up to bad writing. The show still works as an action/adventure, but I'm hoping they'll get a little more out-there as the series goes on.

One thing to remember is that this series falls under the Avengers Movie series timeline, so according to that timeline super heroes are relatively new. SHIELD has been around for a long time before Iron Man, Thor, etc, and dealt with things without the super hero influence. So that could be part of the awe factor.

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" And they are a strong and frightening force, impervious to, and immunized against, the feeble lance of mere reason." Isaac Asimov

Also, regarding last night's show, was anyone else confused by the part at the beginning? Why were people trying to secretly move diamonds by creating such a conspicuous scene? Why were the people on the street and subway barely reacting to such a bizarre sight? Why did it look so much like a scene from a deranged version of Deal or No Deal

SHIELD has already been established as being the covert clean up, behind the scenes organization that should know things even the CIA and inner govt circle may not be aware of. While they don't have to acknowledge a hero directly, for consistency's sake they should at least be aware that telepaths, mutants, magic, etc all exist.

SHIELD just helped a GOD fight off an alien invasion coming through a wormhole in the sky; telepathy is pretty mundane in comparison IMHO.

This is what I was talking about. SHIELD agents should be thoroughly briefed in everything SHIELD knows about superhumans, Iron Man's technology, etc. As a newcomer, Skye should be the one who's amazed by things, yet she seems the most open-minded. It's still very early in the series, of course, and I'm just going to chalk last night's episode up to bad writing. The show still works as an action/adventure, but I'm hoping they'll get a little more out-there as the series goes on.

But the people who were awed by it are Fitz and Simmons, who have already shown a tendency to be really impressed by technology.

Quote from: rittchard on October 16, 2013, 11:16:03 PM

I realize the licensing issues are complicated, and that the show is intentionally not about the superheroes themselves. But it's a Marvel comic book show based on characters in the Marvel universe; a good writer could have made an indirect reference to mutant powers without actually directly mentioning X-Men or mutants. SHIELD has already been established as being the covert clean up, behind the scenes organization that should know things even the CIA and inner govt circle may not be aware of. While they don't have to acknowledge a hero directly, for consistency's sake they should at least be aware that telepaths, mutants, magic, etc all exist.

SHIELD just helped a GOD fight off an alien invasion coming through a wormhole in the sky; telepathy is pretty mundane in comparison IMHO. Honestly the easiest thing is to just not bring things up if they aren't sure how to deal with them. I would hate to see the kind of crap writing and inconsistency that plagued Heroes take this show down.

There was a line that Ming Na had about telepathy officially not being a thing (no evidence to support it or some such), which goes to solidify where in the superhero timeline we really are.

And then Skye basically said the same exact thing you did. Something like a year ago she would have said that aliens and portals to other worlds were crazy talk.

And, as far as the X-Men go, even though the rights are tied up, they were deep undercover (with mutants who could help keep them that way) for a long time at the beginning. Timeline-wise, it's entirely possible that they are an unknown entity. Regardless, they're tied up in rights.

Honestly, I think you guys are looking for trouble here. Bad writing? Just 'cause they didn't give you the things you wanted? They are doing a decent job of establishing the universe without hitting you over the head with it. They also may be limited by Marvel in how much they can establish (although if the show continues to do well, that will likely change).

As has been said, this show was never going to be about the superheroes. More than that, though, if they go around referencing hero activity every five minutes, that would get tired as hell. They are in a stage now where they've got to work on establishing their weekly characters and just dip their toe in the water with background stuff. I guarantee next month will see some dipping in up to the knee at least.

I don't see why people would have trouble with other super hero stuff not being mentioned. The very basis of Marvel comics is based on the concept of all these different timeline/universes etc. Just look at the crazy number of X-men variations they have spit out over the years. I think it would be bad to incorporate all that into the show. It would quickly get very convoluted and IMO only appeals to the most hardcore comic book fan that follows every thread. This is a mass market TV show on a major Network. That stuff isn't gonna fly.

I caught up on Tuesday's episode online last night at ABC's site. Overall I enjoyed it more than the earlier episodes, and I finally felt I was warming up to some of the characters more.

And i liked the...[Seduce Him]"Uuuuh... help!"

sequence. That's the first time the show has made me laugh out loud. And I think the key is it's character-based humor. Not spectacular comedy but better than slipping on a banana peel.

And I agree there's this balancing act between inserting Marvel easter eggs and appealing to Marvel movie/comics fans, and not getting so wrapped up in that a mass audience can't grasp it. Several TV critics basically just said, "I don't know what the hell they're talking about sometimes." Usually that's cause they're not into the Marvel movies or comics. So "about New York" or "the Tesseract," or whatever, means nada to a lot of people.

Ratings wise, Agents is still doing fine in that key market segment (18-49? I think), but in terms of total viewers remains pulverized by NCIS's comfort food.

I don't see why people would have trouble with other super hero stuff not being mentioned. The very basis of Marvel comics is based on the concept of all these different timeline/universes etc. Just look at the crazy number of X-men variations they have spit out over the years. I think it would be bad to incorporate all that into the show. It would quickly get very convoluted and IMO only appeals to the most hardcore comic book fan that follows every thread. This is a mass market TV show on a major Network. That stuff isn't gonna fly.

I don't mind if the writers choose not to mention superhero stuff, I just don't like it when they DO mention things that are inconsistent or potentially limiting. They opened the door by tying this series directly to the Avengers movies. That means at bare minimum knowledge of things like the Tesseract, magic, gods, alternate universes and aliens... licensing issues aside, why deliberately (through writing) imply non-existence of mutants/telepathy, etc.? It would be safer/smarter to just not mention things like that, especially when the potential of mixing mutants and Avengers is so prominent. Wolverine, Beast, Storm - they are all Avengers. Not mention....

this is going to be strictly tied to the movies, the movies can't mention the existence of mutants (as you already know and has been mentioned in this thread). Because of that this will not be the Marvel world you are probably expecting. Magic, and aliens doesn't mean telepathy. It does mean they should be open about the possibility, and most of them probably are. Having a couple characters say it doesn't exist doesn't close the door either.

Also sure, those two characters will likely be in A2, but they won't be referenced as mutants AND their father can't be mentioned. It really sucks though, because all in all it means the Civil War story line can't happen until they sort things out.

I don't see why people would have trouble with other super hero stuff not being mentioned. The very basis of Marvel comics is based on the concept of all these different timeline/universes etc. Just look at the crazy number of X-men variations they have spit out over the years. I think it would be bad to incorporate all that into the show. It would quickly get very convoluted and IMO only appeals to the most hardcore comic book fan that follows every thread. This is a mass market TV show on a major Network. That stuff isn't gonna fly.

I don't mind if the writers choose not to mention superhero stuff, I just don't like it when they DO mention things that are inconsistent or potentially limiting. They opened the door by tying this series directly to the Avengers movies. That means at bare minimum knowledge of things like the Tesseract, magic, gods, alternate universes and aliens... licensing issues aside, why deliberately (through writing) imply non-existence of mutants/telepathy, etc.? It would be safer/smarter to just not mention things like that, especially when the potential of mixing mutants and Avengers is so prominent. Wolverine, Beast, Storm - they are all Avengers. Not mention....

Honestly, I think you guys are looking for trouble here. Bad writing? Just 'cause they didn't give you the things you wanted? They are doing a decent job of establishing the universe without hitting you over the head with it. They also may be limited by Marvel in how much they can establish (although if the show continues to do well, that will likely change).

I thought the whole episode was badly written, not just the characters being surprised by things they shouldn't find surprising. The beginning sequence with the briefcases and diamonds made no sense, the characters were too sympathetic and trusting of someone who was willing to kill innocent people just to protect her own life, and the part where they "profiled" the one giving the orders was laughably ridiculous. Someone makes a lot of typing errors, so they deduce that the guy is overweight? I think even the gang on Scooby Doo would have discounted that kind of logic

I enjoyed the other episodes, though, so I'm hoping this last episode was just an anomaly.

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"Why did the chicken cross the Mobius strip? To get to the same side." - The Big Bang Theory

That said, this shows exactly the kind of inconsistency that I rambled about earlier. Last week our agents don't believe in telepathy. This week they admit to having a list of "powered" "gifted" people, and are nonchalant about a "pyrokinetic." At the end of the episode the bad guys introduce a "Clairvoyant." Yes this is all very minor nitpicks at the moment, but again, I hate it when writers from one week to the next don't seem to know the details of what the others have written. If they aren't careful they can easily fall into the pattern of having really inconsistent episodes, and that's the kind of thing that killed Heroes in season 2. Hardcore fans like myself will tolerate a lot in general for their sci-fi/fantasy/comic book shows, but not blatant sloppiness.

I am amused at people being unhappy that characters in a superhero show are dissappointing because they do things and think unrealistically. As if ANYTHING they do or think is at all realistic.

A bunch of comic book shrews.

No, most of us are unhappy with it because the characters are simply boring (and the stories almost as much so). They could be in a Stallone movie, a sequel to The Hangover, or the next Star Trek and they'd still be freakin' boring. It has nothing to do with being a nerd and everything to do with quality.

It got a little better last night, but I still feel like I'm watching something with the Whedon name on it...that I eventually find out was written by his nine year old nephew.

« Last Edit: October 23, 2013, 07:08:41 PM by hepcat »

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Warning: You will see my penis. -Brian

Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

So if it doesn't feel like a Joss Whedon show (imho, aside from some fun moments in last week's episode, it hasn't) it's probably because Joss is busy with Avengers: Age of Ultron, chiming in on Marvel's other film projects and probably doesn't have much time to be involved with Agents beyond some story note stuff. For the most part, the show just doesn't seem to have the snappy dialogue and characters of a Joss Show.

I really did enjoy last week's episode and felt like it had more "Joss-like" touches in it. I finally got home from work early enough to watch most of this week's episode on TV but I just found it OK.

Maybe they would've been better off just calling the show "Coulson" and building the show more closely around that character, rather than having a bunch of generally vanilla ensemble characters that neither hardcore Marvel fans nor the general TV viewing public seem to have much interest in, to this point.

imho, Melinda May could become the most popular, interesting character if they would consistently give her something more interesting to do than "drive the bus" and grumble to Coulson about this and that. She has a fascinating back story, why not give us more insight into it? Rather than continuing to fixate on the "too gorgeous to be a hacker" hacker?

I'm reminded of NBC's failed "Bionic Woman" remake (2007) where they had a tremendous actress (Katee Sackhoff) playing a psychologically messed up first bionic woman who (imho) was way more compelling as a recurring character, than the "new" and too bland first bionic woman. I was like, "You clods should've done a show about the messed up first bionic women, and fanboys would've flocked to see Katee Sackhoff every week."

Wait, Kaitee Sackhoff wasn't the lead in Bionic Woman? No wonder it failed. I always hated that they ran her character into the ground in BSG, giving her no room for more interesting acting besides various states of irredeemable anguish and self loathing.

But, to be frank, as long as they keep making episodes for this, I'll keep watching. I'll give it a full season even, and even then if it drops off my list, I'll just wait and check it out much later.

People wouldn't be watching it if there wasn't some potential, even if it's taking a while to show they can fulfill some of that.

So if it doesn't feel like a Joss Whedon show (imho, aside from some fun moments in last week's episode, it hasn't) it's probably because Joss is busy with Avengers: Age of Ultron, chiming in on Marvel's other film projects and probably doesn't have much time to be involved with Agents beyond some story note stuff. For the most part, the show just doesn't seem to have the snappy dialogue and characters of a Joss Show.

I really did enjoy last week's episode and felt like it had more "Joss-like" touches in it. I finally got home from work early enough to watch most of this week's episode on TV but I just found it OK.

Maybe they would've been better off just calling the show "Coulson" and building the show more closely around that character, rather than having a bunch of generally vanilla ensemble characters that neither hardcore Marvel fans nor the general TV viewing public seem to have much interest in, to this point.

imho, Melinda May could become the most popular, interesting character if they would consistently give her something more interesting to do than "drive the bus" and grumble to Coulson about this and that. She has a fascinating back story, why not give us more insight into it? Rather than continuing to fixate on the "too gorgeous to be a hacker" hacker?

I'm reminded of NBC's failed "Bionic Woman" remake (2007) where they had a tremendous actress (Katee Sackhoff) playing a psychologically messed up first bionic woman who (imho) was way more compelling as a recurring character, than the "new" and too bland first bionic woman. I was like, "You clods should've done a show about the messed up first bionic women, and fanboys would've flocked to see Katee Sackhoff every week."

I think you're right about Ming Na's character. She's already a favorite in our house, and I have to imagine she'll get cooler and cooler stuff to do as the show goes on.

Im definitely in the give it time to find its legs camp. While it hasnt blown me away, it has been entertaining enough to keep me watching. I will say I didnt come into the series expecting The Avengers part deux, so im not having issues with the whole Marvel world stuff that people are clamoring about. I do have problems with some of the characters but I understand that the show is new as are most of the characters and they need time to develop. The only character I have a real problem with is Agent McMannequin. I mean they guy couldnt be more wooden if he tried. I also agree that Agent May is way underused right now but it seems that they are dropping enough little hints about her past that she will eventually step up her game, as a character. Anyway Im enjoying it enough to keep watching and I hope that the show develops into something better. And if it doesnt then at least we get the occasional gratuitous shots of a scantily clad Skye to fall back on.

So if it doesn't feel like a Joss Whedon show (imho, aside from some fun moments in last week's episode, it hasn't) it's probably because Joss is busy with Avengers: Age of Ultron, chiming in on Marvel's other film projects and probably doesn't have much time to be involved with Agents beyond some story note stuff. For the most part, the show just doesn't seem to have the snappy dialogue and characters of a Joss Show.

I really did enjoy last week's episode and felt like it had more "Joss-like" touches in it. I finally got home from work early enough to watch most of this week's episode on TV but I just found it OK.

Maybe they would've been better off just calling the show "Coulson" and building the show more closely around that character, rather than having a bunch of generally vanilla ensemble characters that neither hardcore Marvel fans nor the general TV viewing public seem to have much interest in, to this point.

imho, Melinda May could become the most popular, interesting character if they would consistently give her something more interesting to do than "drive the bus" and grumble to Coulson about this and that. She has a fascinating back story, why not give us more insight into it? Rather than continuing to fixate on the "too gorgeous to be a hacker" hacker?

I'm reminded of NBC's failed "Bionic Woman" remake (2007) where they had a tremendous actress (Katee Sackhoff) playing a psychologically messed up first bionic woman who (imho) was way more compelling as a recurring character, than the "new" and too bland first bionic woman. I was like, "You clods should've done a show about the messed up first bionic women, and fanboys would've flocked to see Katee Sackhoff every week."

I think you're right about Ming Na's character. She's already a favorite in our house, and I have to imagine she'll get cooler and cooler stuff to do as the show goes on.

I loved when Skye opened the door and there she was. I don't know that it has so much to do with acting (although that is important with the setup) as the perfect situation and all she had to do was shine that stoic look. The acting on the part of Skye sold it really well, the look on her face was perfect.

I will say that they need to work on some of the fight scenes and perhaps use stand in stunt people on occasion. Some of the fight scenes where they've used the actors have been a bit underwhelming and lack fluidity.