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While I believe odds remain against a deal that largely precludes Iranian uranium enrichment and other activities that could lead to a nuclear weapons capability, four months is not going to result in an Iranian breakout. Hence, diplomacy, which offers some prospects of leading to a better outcome, is not a bad approach over that timeframe. It's certainly preferable to an absence of diplomacy and it gives time for contingency planning should Iran fail to accommodate international concerns.

Well TDS, we are going to continue to extend the talks until one day someone says, "Hey, where did Iran get that nuclear weapon? We sure didn't see that coming!" And, at that point, it's too late. Unlike the DPK, Iran's religious leaders have not only the will but the capability of using them against the "Great Satan" and our allies, as well as against other enemies such as ISIS which although I wouldn't shed a tear for ISIS, it would destabilize the region to the point that the total world economy would collapse - not to mention that a freaking nuclear weapon would have been used.

Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

While I believe odds remain against a deal that largely precludes Iranian uranium enrichment and other activities that could lead to a nuclear weapons capability, four months is not going to result in an Iranian breakout. Hence, diplomacy, which offers some prospects of leading to a better outcome, is not a bad approach over that timeframe. It's certainly preferable to an absence of diplomacy and it gives time for contingency planning should Iran fail to accommodate international concerns.

But, when that four months pases we'll give them four more months, then four more months, then four more months, then four more and so on. It's not hard to do the math.

Originally Posted by Top Cat

At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

If extending talks stems off war, I'm all for extending talks. There's nothing wrong with keeping people at the table.

Talking is always better than fighting. Talking with an honest broker is preferable. Talking for the sake of talking, while the other side continues to advance their programs and the potential threat continues to grow, however, is not preferable.

At this point, it's difficult to understand why they would need more time, or why we would give it to them. Either they plan on complying with the will of the word's nations, or they do not. If not, then giving them more time is as exercise in futility and at the very least, crippling international sanctions should be reinstated. If, however, they have given us proof that they are dismantling and/or reducing their enrichment program to the level needed only for medical use and their long range missile program has been halted, then an extension of time may be acceptable if it is to allow them to get their own hardliners on board.

I've seen no evidence that they have reduced their enrichment program, or halted their long range missile program. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

Talking is always better than fighting. Talking with an honest broker is preferable. Talking for the sake of talking, while the other side continues to advance their programs and the potential threat continues to grow, however, is not preferable.

At this point, it's difficult to understand why they would need more time, or why we would give it to them. Either they plan on complying with the will of the word's nations, or they do not. If not, then giving them more time is as exercise in futility and at the very least, crippling international sanctions should be reinstated. If, however, they have given us proof that they are dismantling and/or reducing their enrichment program to the level needed only for medical use and their long range missile program has been halted, then an extension of time may be acceptable if it is to allow them to get their own hardliners on board.

I've seen no evidence that they have reduced their enrichment program, or halted their long range missile program. I may be wrong, but I haven't seen it.

I've seen no evidence that Iran has not. But neither of us are privy to intelligence reports.

Iran is a weird society in that the people really don't want any part of this, and neither does the secular wing of the government. But the mullahs run the show. That said, they've had plenty of opportunities over the least 30 years to get uppity, and they've shown little sign of it, outside of their usual "great satan" bluster. I find it hard to believe the hardliners have become suicidal overnight.

I've seen no evidence that Iran has not. But neither of us are privy to intelligence reports.

Iran is a weird society in that the people really don't want any part of this, and neither does the secular wing of the government. But the mullahs run the show. That said, they've had plenty of opportunities over the least 30 years to get uppity, and they've shown little sign of it, outside of their usual "great satan" bluster. I find it hard to believe the hardliners have become suicidal overnight.

I don't know that they would have to become suicidal. They have more than enough followers that would do that for them, and Iran's Ayatollah would deny complicity. That's what they've done with Hamas and multiple other terrorist groups - supply them with the weapons and cash, while they fight the war for the Iranians. Not all that different from what we do, except we don't usually support terrorists, at least lately (Syria not included).

Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.

I don't know that they would have to become suicidal. They have more than enough followers that would do that for them, and Iran's Ayatollah would deny complicity. That's what they've done with Hamas and multiple other terrorist groups - supply them with the weapons and cash, while they fight the war for the Iranians. Not all that different from what we do, except we don't usually support terrorists, at least lately (Syria not included).

If any sort of nuclear attack came out of Iran, we'd know it, and they'd be cinders within the hour. Yeah, they can fight proxy wars all they want -- hell, we've made an art form out of it -- but does anyone really think that if Iran was in any way capable and/or willing to strike at U.S. interests, they wouldn't be crispy critters in about four seconds?

If any sort of nuclear attack came out of Iran, we'd know it, and they'd be cinders within the hour. Yeah, they can fight proxy wars all they want -- hell, we've made an art form out of it -- but does anyone really think that if Iran was in any way capable and/or willing to strike at U.S. interests, they wouldn't be crispy critters in about four seconds?

Actually, yeah. I doubt it. The same reasons that we have not taken harder actions so far, are the same reasons we wold not turn Iran into ashes - Russia, China... OIL... and a few others.

Originally Posted by Kobie

And we have supported terrorists, for decades.

You missed the sarcasm of irony in my statement. Normally I'm no that cryptic with my satire, but I thought with your intelligence you would have seen it - I even gave you a primer in the parenthetical portion. Geeze Kobie...

Everything in your life is a reflection of a choice you have made. If you want a different result, don't blame someone else, or expect others to make a change, you should stop complaining and make a different choice. Remember, the circumstances of your birth don't determine the outcome of your life.