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Looking back on databooks and the manga, it never is clear exactly whether hand seals are necessary for some jutsu, because honestly in most recent chapters you don't see hand signs for most jutsu. It's honestly kishis fault for not making it clear in the hand seal factor, we do at times see hand seal but a lot of the jutsus that had hand seals for them you don't see them any more. So it's difficult to judge whether not hand seals are absolutely necessary

why naruto did not use planetary rasengan? is plain old rasengan more powerful than the new one? that would be a rare sight seing tobi blown away by awesome planetary rasengan than the usual one? http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/553/4

Naruto isn't fighting with a full tank. He's activated (and unactivated) Chakra Mode multiple times already, leading me to believe that the jinchuuriki haven't given him a large enough amount of chakra for him to be spamming his strongest techniques.

Not to mention he was just testing Kakashi's strategy with the basic Rasengan and, when just testing the water, the last thing you wanna do is throw a huge high risk jutsu into the midst incase something goes wrong (an FRS would've exploded much larger, catching himself in the blast radius. And a basic Rasengan requires less focus to maintain it's spin. Not to mention the plan was to hide behind Gai. Carrying a giant Rasengan and multiple other Rasengan around it would be too much and Tobi would have seen him behind Gai from the get go.)

Well, i'm pretty sure itachi never seen the kyubi nor he control him with his MS/sharingan. But madara did. But how come it was written to the uchiha shrine that the MS will loses its light? Sasuke almost got blind for overusing his MS, but he never control the kyubi like madara did. So, how come the MS will lose its light and it was all because of the kyubi? So it was pretty obvious that the kyubi did something to the curse clan of the uchiha for controlling him like a pet. So, maybe it was the kyubi's chakra on why kakashi never get blind for overusing his MS.

he probably misquoted it. Its in return for getting the power to control the Kyuubi the side effect is you go blind. The Kyuubi doesnt directly cause you to go blind, because you could have MS and not even meet the Kyuubi like Itachi did and still go blind

Well, itachi clearly stated that the kyubi is the reason why the uchiha's MS loses its light. And in the history of the uchiha clan, it was only madara who control the kyubi like a pet. So how do you explain that? It was all written to the uchiha's shrine. So maybe it was all madara's fault for making itachi and sasuke's MS lose its light.

Well, i'm pretty sure itachi never seen the kyubi nor he control him with his MS/sharingan. But madara did. But how come it was written to the uchiha shrine that the MS will loses its light? Sasuke almost got blind for overusing his MS, but he never control the kyubi like madara did. So, how come the MS will lose its light and it was all because of the kyubi? So it was pretty obvious that the kyubi did something to the curse clan of the uchiha for controlling him like a pet. So, maybe it was the kyubi's chakra on why kakashi never get blind for overusing his MS.

Well, itachi clearly stated that the kyubi is the reason why the uchiha's MS loses its light. And in the history of the uchiha clan, it was only madara who control the kyubi like a pet. So how do you explain that? It was all written to the uchiha's shrine. So maybe it was all madara's fault for making itachi and sasuke's MS lose its light.

Gosh man ... I know english is not your first language but this has nothing to do with english ... this is basic reading skills and reading between the lines ... Sasuke was reacting to the fact that MS greatest ability besides new jutsus was the ability to control Kyuubi thus saying what he was saying ... I don't wanna be harsh but this is not the first time something similar like this has happened IIRC

Also madara tried control the kyuubi for the first time when he had his EMS not MS so your cursing theory is out of the window.

Anyway this is all pretty useless since we've seen Tobi controling Kyuubi with his regular sharingan only

Last edited by Murdock; August 11, 2012 at 03:47 AM.

Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

Year 0 for our purposes:
We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
Year 5:
J-Man trains Nagato
Year 10:
Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

Gosh man ... I know english is not your first language but this has nothing to do with english ... this is basic reading skills and reading between the lines ... Sasuke was reacting to the fact that MS greatest ability besides new jutsus was the ability to control Kyuubi thus saying what he was saying ... I don't wanna be harsh but this is not the first time something similar like this has happened IIRC

Also madara tried control the kyuubi for the first time when he had his EMS not MS so your cursing theory is out of the window.

Anyway this is all pretty useless since we've seen Tobi controlin Kyuubi with his regular sharingan only

Then please enlighten me with your English skills.

Honestly, don't get me wrong, it sounds retarded. You dare to lecture me with your basic reading skills and your so called reading between the lines? Yeah, you're right, english is not my first language, but i tell you, my english understanding skills is not that stupid. But watevah.

Itachi : The kaleidoscopic will in time loses its light.

Sasuke : Blindness...............................That is the price you have to pay to control the kyubi.

Itachi : So you did read the inscription in the shrine after all.

So my understanding in this freaking conversation of the brothers is this, it was written in the shrine that the reason why the MS loses its light/blindness is the price for controlling the kyubi. Sasuke's script or lines in that scan is just a phrase from the shrine itself. So, Sasuke never said that the MS has the ability to control the kyubi, he just said what he read in their shrine, which is "the price blah blah blah"

Now, if my interpretation is wrong then maybe i need to reread/research/study again my 4 years of english in my high school days and 2 years in my college days.

Also madara tried control the kyuubi for the first time when he had his EMS not MS so your cursing theory is out of the window.

Anyway this is all pretty useless since we've seen Tobi controling Kyuubi with his regular sharingan only

So, you already knows the entire history if the uchiha clan? You already knows all the inscription in the uchiha's shrine? right? Honestly, it was just my opinion/thought, but for saying that my theory is out of the window means you already knows what happens. So share it to me, will yah?

Honestly, don't get me wrong, it sounds retarded. You dare to lecture me with your basic reading skills and your so called reading between the lines? Yeah, you're right, english is not my first language, but i tell you, my english understanding skills is not that stupid. But watevah.

Itachi : The kaleidoscopic will in time loses its light.

Sasuke : Blindness...............................That is the price you have to pay to control the kyubi.

Itachi : So you did read the inscription in the shrine after all.

So my understanding in this freaking conversation of the brothers is this, it was written in the shrine that the reason why the MS loses its light/blindness is the price for controlling the kyubi. Sasuke's script or lines in that scan is just a phrase from the shrine itself. So, Sasuke never said that the MS has the ability to control the kyubi, he just said what he read in their shrine, which is "the price blah blah blah"

Now, if my interpretation is wrong then maybe i need to reread/research/study again my 4 years of english in my high school days and 2 years in my college days.

Don't get me wrong pal.

I said I don't wanna be harsh but it is just mind-boggling that everyone (well most of the readers) understands the manga in the same way execpt for you, and not just this time ...

My understanding of what was written in Uchiha temple was something in this line:

To gain MS you have to kill your best friend (or at least that's what has happened with our ancestors) ... with these new great eyes you gain an unfathomable powers - the most amazing of those is the power to control the Kyuubi ... but in exchange for using those eyes, the eyes will eventually loose its light ...

This way it makes sence what Sasuke said, it also follows what was said in the manga, and everybody understand it the same way

Also I can't understand how can you say that only controlling Kyuubi will make you blind when you know that Itachi's eyesight deteriorated without ever laying an eye on Kyuubi

Originally Posted by marshall313

So, you already knows the entire history if the uchiha clan? You already knows all the inscription in the uchiha's shrine? right? Honestly, it was just my opinion/thought, but for saying that my theory is out of the window means you already knows what happens. So share it to me, will yah?

Well no BUT I know what happened in the manga and that's what I am stating ...

We know when Madara tried to control Kyuubi when he had his EMS - FACT
We know he went blind before even trying to control Kyuubi - FACT

but you post a theory that goes directly against to what happened in manga which is not something most readers/users do - finding a hole, a gap in timeline to make some theories ... see the difference?

Why Tobi can't be Obito (or Rin):

Year 0 for our purposes:
We know that Madara and Tobi knew each other (confirmed by Kishi) and gave Madara's Rinnegan to Nagato.
Year 5:
J-Man trains Nagato
Year 10:
Obito is born.Tobi might be using Obito's eye but that is improbable since it would most likely be MS technique BUT considering how much he's been using it he would be blind by now. Itachi used it very sporadically and was blind, same Sasuke-Tobi is spamming it for 17 years and is OK?

Re: Naruto 596 Discussion / 597 Predictions

Kyuubi isn't the reason why Mangekyo causes blindness. Mangekyo increases the chances of controlling the Kyuubi (Tobi and Madara controlled Kyuubi with just Sharingan), but the Kyuubi isn't why it causes blindness. It would be the reason for getting Mangekyo, but that's it. Mangekyo causes blindness because once activated, it slowly seals the eyes. The reason for unlocking Mangekyo would be to control the Kyuubi, according to the tablet, but it comes at a price. It's like how sealing away something with Death Reaper seal comes at a price of one's own soul.

The only way Kyuubi is related to Mangekyo users becoming blind is by being the reason they want Mangekyo. NOthing else.

My understanding of what was written in Uchiha temple was something in this line:

To gain MS you have to kill your best friend (or at least that's what has happened with our ancestors) ... with these new great eyes you gain an unfathomable powers - the most amazing of those is the power to control the Kyuubi ... but in exchange for using those eyes, the eyes will eventually loose its light ...

Ah, eh, Where can i read that? I can't find that in the manga that shows the entire inscription of the uchiha tablet.

To gain MS, you have to kill your best friend is just itachi's statement. The manga never shown that it came directly to the shrine. Itachi never killed shisui, and yet he got his MS. And the manga never shown either that madara, izuna, shisui and kakashi killed their bestfriend to gain the MS.

Originally Posted by Murdock

This way it makes sence what Sasuke said, it also follows what was said in the manga, and everybody understand it the same way

No. It doesn't make sense at all.

Itachi : The kaleidoscopic will in time loses its light.

Sasuke : Blindness...............................That is the price you have to pay to control the kyubi.

and itachi said

Itachi : So you did read the inscription in the shrine after all.

Now, how come itachi said that sasuke's statement about " Blindness, that is the price you have to pay to control the kyubi " came from the inscription in the uchiha tablet?

Originally Posted by Murdock

Also I can't understand how can you say that only controlling Kyuubi will make you blind when you know that Itachi's eyesight deteriorated without ever laying an eye on Kyuubi

That's exactly. Honestly, even i, don't understant on how the hell itachi said that sasuke's statement about the blindness "stuff" came from the inscription of the shrine.

Originally Posted by Murdock

Well no BUT I know what happened in the manga and that's what I am stating ...

And so am i. BUt the problem is, how come you already know that the uchiha clan doesn't have any mystery left about their history? You sound that you already knows what exactly the inscription of that shrine.

Originally Posted by Murdock

We know when Madara tried to control Kyuubi when he had his EMS - FACT

No. it's still not a fact. And we don't really know if madara is the only one of the uchiha clan who tried to control the kyubi, and if he had the EMS at that time. So your-so-called-fact is just your speculation/assumption.

Originally Posted by Murdock

We know he went blind before even trying to control Kyuubi - FACT

No it's not. You don't have any solid evidence in this one. Because the manga never said that or the manga never shown that madara did control the kyubi when he got his EMS or when he already went blind with his MS. So it's not a manga fact.

But The manga fact is, madara control the kyubi like a pet. That's a fact.

Originally Posted by Murdock

but you post a theory that goes directly against to what happened in manga which is not something most readers/users do - finding a hole, a gap in timeline to make some theories ... see the difference?

Huh? i just post a theory on itachi's statement. Because i find it odd on why itachi said that the 'blindness, is the price you blah blah blha" came from the uchiha's tablet. So, how come it goes directly against to what happen in the manga? does the manga already shown the entire inscription of the uchiha's shrine? If yes, then maybe you're right. But if not, then my theory about the inscription of the tablet isn't against what happen in the manga. Because we don't really know what was written in that tablet for Pete's sake.