For Historical flags, what I do is "Afghanistan flag (year of adoption), but I am happy to use "Flag of Afghanistan 2002) if that makes you happy, Kookaburra. Zach(Smack Back) 19:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm with Kookaburra, but I know of some flags that have the use put into parentheses (e.g., Image:Flag of Switzerland (ensign).svg). Should we abandon the parentheses or keep? Just offhand I'd say parenthesesless is simpler. ¦ Reisio 13:18, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

It varies - some of their images are free - like the Portuguese flag one, which is clearly just an export from the SVG the government provided. ¦ Reisio 19:21, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I didn't say we should swipe their SVG images directly. What I meant is that we should make our own SVG reconstructions of every flag image available on that site. Denelson83 00:58, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

We can. Pretty much, many UK flags go by a similar template. All we need is the arms image and we should be good to go on many flags. Zach(Smack Back) 00:59, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

So were are we going to get the arms images from, eh? Denelson83 04:18, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

While this is the state flag, do we normally use the state flag for the Flag of Foo images? Zach(Smack Back) 06:53, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. So, it's not possible to embed a png-picture just by copy & paste? --Kookaburra 07:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

It is, but there's not much point when Zscout's just traced it so nicely for you (granted, it could use some improvement, but the basic image is correct). ¦ Reisio 21:41, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, but how? Using paste & copy, the picture is just a link to a file on my hard disk...

I already tried to trace the picture (In the german Inkscape version, it might be "Bitmap vektorisieren"), but the result was really bad. --Kookaburra 08:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I think "Flag of Foo" should be the flag, which may be shown by everyone ("national flag"), not only by the state. From this point of view, it's OK. --Kookaburra 07:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Well if you lookup the "flag of Costa Rica", you'll find mostly the flag with the CoA. I was also thinking about how lots of countries have official flags and then civil ensigns...we've always used the nonensign IIRC (like with Switzerland). As I understand it we're trying to represent the country with its official flag, not necessarily the flag people get to use. :p ¦ Reisio 21:41, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

You are right. Even Smith use the flag with the CoA as a "main" flag. But, please post such chances here, that I can correct some corresponding flag articles. --Kookaburra 08:25, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

/me executes move. Nevermind, too tired atm and I need to refamiliarize myself with at least en's flag template system. So many horrible lists of flags on that one. ¦ Reisio 16:51, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

"As I understand it we're trying to represent the country with its official flag, not necessarily the flag people get to use. :p" — We'll eventually have to go through all flags and check whether we have the correct flag at the correct place, then, though. Perhaps you should make a column in your table, Reisio, for state/civil flag? —Nightstallion(?) 07:12, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Good idea. I need to add stuff for obverse/reverse for flags that differ, too - and for hoist side. ¦ Reisio 16:40, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Other than Paraguay's flag, which has a different reverse than the obverse, everything should be fine. Zach(Smack Back) 00:16, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

Have to be careful, though - basically all articles using the images need to be checked before the move, to make sure they're not expecting one to be an ensign or one the state flag. ¦ Reisio 07:12, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

I will also try and changing the colors, since the green looks very light, and it is not supposed to be that way. Zach(Smack Back) 07:27, 27 January 2006 (UTC)

It seems a few have shown interest in this off and on - if there's enough interest, it'd probably make the most sense if it were a subpage of WikProject Flags. My only caveat is that with something as big and clunky as this (and it's smallish atm), any major changes/additions/etc. to any tables really will need to be discussed and agreed upon beforehand or we'll surely all go mad (or give up on it). We should also (obviously) try and wrap up #Naming conventions II.

I'm not really clear on the difference between "State" and "Civil" flags. If you lived in Austria, for example, and wanted to fly a flag outside your house, would you use the Civil version? When would you use the State version?

Private persons may only use the civil version. Officials will use the state flag. —Nightstallion(?) 06:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The name "Flag of Austria.svg" is supposed to be the "default" flag, whatever that means. I.e. if some random Wikipedia article about the olympics wants a flag next to an Austrian athlete, they should get the right flag with "Flag of Austria.svg". Does that mean State or Civil is more appropriate? User:dbenbenn 03:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I would use the state flag, since that is used by the governments, and we see those a lot at the UN, EU and other government buildings. Zach(Smack Back) 05:27, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

The more I think about it, the more doubts I have. For example Austria: I'm rather sure that they don't use the state flag at the UN, EU (see [4]) buildings (unfortunately I cannot clearly see the Flag of Austria here). According to the austrian Wappengesetz the state has (of course) the right to fly the Flag with CoA, but this doesn't mean that they have to! --Kookaburra 09:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC) PS: here a photo of the EU parliament - the flag of austria shows clearly no CoA --Kookaburra 10:02, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

Damn it. I think you're right on that. So, what do we do now? —Nightstallion(?) 13:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

My take on this: If there's a single flag for civil and state, we name it "Flag of FOO.svg". If there are different versions, we should name the one "Flag of FOO (civil).svg" and the other either "Flag of FOO.svg" or "Flag of FOO (state).svg" (no, on second thought the official one must be the one at the primary location); "ensign" AFAIK means "used on the sea", which may be true as well, but need not necessarily. —Nightstallion(?) 06:48, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

We should finally discuss our naming standards, BTW. I think things like years in which a historic flag was used and similar things belong in parentheses, i.e. "Flag of Austria (civil).svg", not "Flag of Austria civil.svg", and "Flag of Afghanistan (199x - 2004).svg", not "Flag of Afghanistan 199x - 2004.svg". What do you say? I realize that this may mean we'll have to reupload a number of images, and I sincerely hope one of us knows someone with a replacement bot usable on the major wikipedias for that... We've also encountered a number of incorrectly named ensigns that still need to be renamed, somewhere closer to the top of this page. —Nightstallion(?) 06:54, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

If we can't agree that state flags are more official and should be the default, then I guess we'll have to sort it all out on a case-by-case basis - investigating usage before we decide. ¦ Reisio 21:30, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

There are a lot of images in Category:Flags of Argentina (as well as many not listed there) that could benefit from the new Image:Flag of Argentina.svg. Lots of redundants in there, as well. Just FYI in case some bored person wants to start hacking into this before I do (if I do :p) - maybe I'll tag a bunch of them {{ifc}} & {{redundant}} later tonight. Be careful if you do get into it, though, as I'm not positive Image:Flag of Argentina.svg should have its current ratio of 15:24 or a ratio of 9:14. ¦ Reisio 00:07, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

Hrmmm...could cut down the filesize substantially by making the sun perfectly round and cloning a lot. Now I have to find out which is more correct - a perfectly round sun or a slightly squished one. ¦ Reisio 04:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

According to the World Flag Database, the proportion of Argentina's flag is supposed to be 1:2.

Also, "images that could benefit..." I don't know what you mean by that. Denelson83 08:56, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't think WFD even gets the sun right. I'm pretty certain the only contenders for ratio right now are those I mentioned before.

Benefit, like, the more officialish colors can be taken from the new Image:Flag of Argentina.svg and applied to all the other images in that category that are supposed to be using them. The images with lower-quality suns can use the new sun. Stuff like that. ¦ Reisio 19:49, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

There are some images on vector-images.com that I need for some of the variant flags yet to upload; unfortunately, you have to pay to get their vector versions, which are exactly what I need. Unfortunately, I can't send any money over the Web, so I am asking someone here for help obtaining these images. -- Denelson83 22:55, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Bah... I didn't tell the whole truth. I should have said "I can't send any money over the Web without parental permission" (long story). So, I showed my mother what I was doing, and asked for permission to put some money into her "Web purchase system", and she said yes. Now, I have those images I was looking for, and will shortly add them to the Commons. Denelson83 03:58, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I received an e-mail from the author of xrmap telling me that vector-images.com does not allow its vector files to be redistributed. However, I obtained the coat of arms of Moldova from a different source, webchantier.com. Denelson83 21:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Are all the flags and coats of arms at webchantier.com free to use? There are several PD images at Commmons which use those • Madden 11:19, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I will probably say no, since I see a lot of "payment" for services that this website provides, but that is not definite yet. Most of the website is in FR and I am FR-0. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 18:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

They are, but reading more, they are allowing people to use their type fonts and company logos for free, but nothing about the flags. In any case, just cite the above website as an image source and we could debate this later. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 20:16, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Investigating this site further, I found that users can submit vector images to this site, and they would presumably be made available for free download. Denelson83 23:55, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

One of the vector flag images from webchantier.com, Image:Flag of the African Union.svg, has been put under copyright inquiry--in this case, for the second time. If this image is found to be non-free, it could set a dangerous precedent. -- Denelson83 05:15, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

It's annoying, but I don't see it as particularly dangerous. ¦ Reisio 16:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I uploaded quite a few vector flag images from webchantier.com, which means if this particular image is non-free, they'll all be gone from the Commons. -- Denelson83 20:58, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

To have some internal discussion on this first: What purpose does this serve? If we're trying to standardize flags to be as correct as possible in SVG format, why should we duplicate our work and create PNG versions as well? If this proposal happens to have support, I strongly suggest an exemption for certain areas, among them coats of arms and flags, where standardization and correctness is difficult enough to achieve without this proposal in our way. —Nightstallion(?) 06:46, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

The Mexican PNG flag is a perfect example, but we should not have to create a special policy to say "hey, don't delete this." Flags with COA, such as Spain and Argentina, might have to have a PNG version in order for things to work out well, but I still think it should be on a case by case basis. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 06:53, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that this policy proposal doesn't affect WikiProject Flags at all. Our goal is to create a complete collection of high-quality flags. If the Commons chooses to also host lower-quality flags, that doesn't affect us. There's no need for us to "duplicate our work and create PNG versions as well". User:dbenbenn 10:03, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

I concur absolutely, and have noted this some time at the beginning of our project (they were uploaded by David Newton before our NC were in place, I think). —Nightstallion(?) 06:58, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Are the capitals necessary? Why not Image:Civil ensign of Foo.svg?

It also doesn't make sense to me to have Civil ensign of but use Flag of Foo (state) instead of State flag of Foo.

We also need to commit to what plain Flag of Foo is - we've had some discussions before about whether it should be the state (government's flag) if there's a difference, but I don't think we really decided. ¦ Reisio 07:26, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm guilty of flouting the naming rules, but now I make an effort to comply. Re. caps, I think sentence case ("Civil air ensign of ...", "Naval ensign of ...") is the best way to go since we are describing the flag. It is unlikely that the phrase will be a proper noun. My choice for the actual format of the name is "Flag of Foo (State/Civil/etc)".

A second alternative is to code "Flag of Foo (Bar)", where Bar is the number that appears on the FIAV_xx.png icons. Of course a lot of flags don't fit that spec so it probably won't work but imo its probably the most logical. Greentubing(en:WP talk) 07:46, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I've already entrenched the existing case convention of the flag filenames, so I think we shouldn't fix what isn't broken and continue using it.

This is the actual flag being used in Macau. However, the older versions-, which is never being used, is widely used in wikipedia.--Macanese馬交人 05:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I compared the two images and the differences seem to be the stars and the positioning and curvature of the logo. However I can't read Portugese. Can you supply a construction sheet or some flag specification in English for the Macanese flag? Greentubing(en:WP talk) 07:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I wish to echo the above comment; please give us a construction sheet and we will correct the flag as soon as possible. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 07:38, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Would anyone please to explain me what a construction sheet is?--140.122.230.20 10:29, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Recently on de.wikipedia User:Gunter came up with the idea of implementing a flag finder, so users would be able to find a flag or information on a flag, even when they only know some characteristics of the flag ("it was striped and had three colors. And there were a coat of arms in the center. What flag could it have been?"). I then made the proposal, that the best method would be to create a template similar to de:Wikipedia:Personendaten (german, lesser developed english version). The Personendaten-Projekt tags biography articles with information about the people (date and place of birth and death, other names, profession...) so this data can be read out by a script. The page [5] (german) gives an overview over the data. You can look, which people were born at a specific day, for example. Because all the flags are saved on Commons a similar template for flags should be used on Commons image description pages. I made a template idea to formalize the collected data about the flags (it should be so formalized that automatic conversion in other languages is no problem). You can see this proposal at Commons:WikiProject Flags/template. I am a layman in flags, so corrections and ideas for improvement are welcome. What do you think about it? --::Slomox::>< 14:28, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Do you mean actually embed such information as metadata within each SVG file? -- Denelson83 15:56, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Nope, this is putting metadata in the image summary text. Persondata is invisible to humans unless you edit your style sheet. IMO the metadata is a Good Thing but I might disagree with some specifics as they come up. The template as it stands at the moment looks good. Greentubing(en:WP talk) 21:18, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

COUNTRY can be used in conjunction with the FIAV-no. so we can easily look up the Sea War Flag of Foo? COUNTRY is different from OF since not all flags are used by countries

TYPE can be used when FIAV doesn't work, e.g. with aircraft flags (since the FIAV codes don't define civil/state/war air flags).

OTHER NAME can be used for variant names. This would change the NAMES variable to NAME (for one name only). What goes in NAME is for debate.

DEFAULT is a True/False flag used with COUNTRY so someone looking for "Flag of Bar" without qualification will come to the flag for Country Bar with the default flag. Of course constraints such as years, etc will need to be sorted out.

I suggest that none of these variables should be mandatory. I can code this if you want.Greentubing(en:WP talk) 21:33, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

w:Gallery of flags by design is a very nice piece of work, but: There are tens of thousands flags in the world, one monolithic list can't handle these all. The templates makes it all more flexible. You need only an application to chart the template data.

@Greentubing: I agree to your proposed changes. They all seem to make sense. --::Slomox::>< 23:02, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Done. If DEFAULT has any value an asterisk will appear next to NAME. OTHERNAMES, FIAV, TYPE and COUNTRY are optional variables which will not appear if blank. Greentubing(en:WP talk) 00:14, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Slomox: Are there any uses for CSS table.metadata at Commons? If not we can make this appear as table.metadata as Persondata does. The only thing that's stopping us is whether or not other types of files at Commons need to use it.Greentubing(en:WP talk) 00:28, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

So do you think this will work? Are the main protagonists on this WikiProject against it or will they support an effort to introduce such a template? Please speak up! ;-) --::Slomox::>< 01:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Guillermo Romero seems to have a much different opinion than reality about which flag variant of Venezuela is used where. He believes a plain triband of yellow, blue and red should be most commonly used to represent Venezuela, whereas the version with the seven stars is the actual most-commonly-used flag of Venezuela. I need some third opinions on this matter. -- Denelson83 21:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

The 7 Star flag (merchant flag) is mostly used, but we should have a copy of the de jure civil flag (at least as a mention). I suggest we should use the merchant flag in the WP projects to represent Venezuela. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 00:13, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, my opinion is that the "plain triband" flag without stars should exist, but under a very different filename so that it can be used in the specific cases where it is necessary, and not in any other case. It should not be used to represent Venezuela in the more than a dozen articles that are currently linking to the image (articles about stubs, sporting events, politicians, country lists,etc.).Kusaja 18:23, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

If we use the de jure civil flag, then it looks very similar to the flag of Colombia, so that is a bad idea to use for articles, stubs, etc. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 00:27, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

to put it in a nutshell: according to REUTERS the venuzelan flag so far had seven stars, but as from march 12th it will have eight stars. hugo chavez decided (well, the parliament decided, but anyway..) to add an additional star, to fulfill a decree by simon bolivar from 1817. there are slo changes in the coats of arms: the whits horse, so far running from left to right, will run from right to left in the future. —the preceding unsigned comment is by194.232.66.24 (talk • contribs)

The civil flag has been scrapped, and the merchant flag can now also be used by the people. So, there will only be two flags in Venezuela now. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 06:40, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The stars are not constructed in the same way; for instance, on the state flag the two centre stars are basically on a straight line, and only the other six stars are aligned on a curved line, while the stars on the civil flag are all aligned on a curved line.

Additionally, the size of the civil flag is not large enough. Could someone please correct that? Thanks! —Nightstallion(?) 19:05, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Getting there, but I am going to see what FOTW comes up with (in the terms of an arms image). The civil flag, I drew based on what the VE government has presented, but I will going to make some slight corrections on it. I am going on Spring Break now, so I will try to get my hands on Inkscape (depends on what is going on at my home). BTW, the civil flag colors are correct, they are the color shades used by the VE Government. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 21:10, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Should new .svg-flags not be protected if they have been verified for having accurate colours and proportions ? This helps to avoid vandlism attacks as well as editwars (as seen on the venezuelan flag recently). I think this is a must especially if all projects are changed to use our .svg-flags here instead of their local versions. --Denniss 07:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

On the face of it it is a sound idea, but this is a wiki after all. If there is to be a lock policy:

who do we give the power to 'judge' flags?

what standard colour schemes will we use (a pet question of mine)?

what happens when there is an offical change of flag design?

disputes with the lock version?

If there is to be a lock policy we'd have to tread carefully. Imo I think its fine as it is since there will be vigilance on our part and of others. Greentubing(en:WP talk) 08:30, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm opposed to preemptively protecting flag images, because that makes it impossible for others to contribute improvements. If a particular flag gets vandalized, it's easy enough to protect it temporarily. User:dbenbenn 15:37, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

We can also always delete the vandal version, but most of the problems I see with vandal images is that they get uploaded at the project itself (like at EN). User:Zscout370(Return fire) 00:49, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Well I strongly disagreed with the new star in the venezuelan flag but since it is in the law we should use the eight-star flag and not the seven- star flag. We should keep Wikipedia updated, of course we have to take care of the informations we show, they have to be true because many people look for information for theirs studies here, so the articles must be not only actual but true. If we should to protect/ lock flags well flags are part of the country's culture, it is necessary to lock them or at least look for a way to avoiding problems to our Wikipedia.User:Luïx

As somebody above said it this is a wiki so it is very easy to revert both images and edits to a previous version. Also, currently, the only way to protect an image would also stop the description page being modified by non-administrators. In my opinion I think it is best to leave images unprotected except when they are subject to a heavy vandalism attack. UberHalogen 19:24, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

In analogy to other projects on the Commons, and to obey common sense, should we move our project? —Nightstallion(?) 11:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Nah, I say leave it as it is. I mean, the Commons is a Wiki in and of itself. Denelson83 00:15, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Still, I think having parallel standards is a bad thingTM. I'd say we check what the other two ...Projects think about this, and if they insist on CommonsProject, let's move. 's that alright with you? I know, it's a minor issue, but I'm a sucker for standardization. ;) —Nightstallion(?) 14:39, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

Hi there. I'm posting this here one advice fron Eugene Zelenko, as there apears to be a high level of SVG-related knowledge floating around. If I should be posting somewhere else, please tell me, and I'll go there.

I have been trying to do some mathematical diagrams as SVG, and I would like to as it is clearly better, but whenever I do this, some thumbnails don't show on the article page, on Wikibooks or Wikisource, which is the reason I upload them in the first place. They come up with a white and grey checquered background, and you can only actually see the SVG when you click on the link below the preview. For an example, see image:Slope_Field_1.svg. I'm using Adobe SVG viewer with Opera 8 (which also has some native SVG support).

If you can tell me what it is I'm doing wrong, then I will be more than willing to use SVG over PNG. In the meantime, I try to make the PNGs large to give extra information. Also, what is the best font to use for labelling SVG diagrams?

Well I do have the same problem with my coats of arms. They are created as Adobe illustrator files and exported as SVG. But for some reason most of those Adobe SVGs don't show up as thumbnails in the wiki projects. But there's a trick for the problem, I just open the file with Inkskape to save the file again as 'Plain SVG'. Afterwards the file is readable by all wikis wihthout further problems.Perhaps this may help you to. Best regards. --David Liuzzo 23:43, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

This image has an error. The British flag on the left should be upside down compared to what it normally is, as if its hoist was at the left edge of the Orange Free State flag in the centre of the flag. See this page http://www.fotw.net/flags/za_old.html --83.245.26.100 00:37, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

Someone with knowledge should verify this flag, maybe it's wrong and Image:US flag 48 stars.svg is correct. If it's wrong please upload the correct flag over the correctly named and mark the other one as duplicate. --Denniss 16:56, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

the blue colour. seems a bit too dark. the CIA's is way too light, but it's darker than what we're using in Image:Flag of Australia.svg. I guess all Union Jack-based flags should be the same.

why is there two bits of red in the COA on the right? This is totally wrong. there should only be red in the flower thing at the top.

is the yellow in the COA supposed to be two distinct shades? all the flags I linked only have one shade (except the CIA, which only has one bit in the bright yellow, the upside-down "V")

not sure if that black "shadow" bit should be black of grey

Noorse raised these issues and asked where the PNG version is (assuming it was deleted). Indeed, I can't find any PNG version but I don't know if one ever existed and I don't know of a way to search the deletion logs...

Incidentally I have noticed a lot of PNG flags being tagged as {{duplicate}} which is a deletion tag. This is wrong because {{duplicate}} is only for exact duplicates or scaled-down exact duplicates. A PNG -> SVG conversion matches neither of these cases. Please mark PNG flags as {{superseded}} if they are indeed worse than the SVG (not just automatically). Thankyou, pfctdayelise(translate?) 13:56, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

A lot of the XRMAP flags have not been changed for colors. Imho in the long run British flags should have consistency with Commons:Pantone color chart/British flag colours (except for the specific case of Australia, which uses a different shade of red in the Union Flag). I'll go change the flag's colors to match the template. Red lining in the helmet is a standard British heraldic thing, and I'd be surprised if the original grant had a silver lining (lol). Nonetheless I'll change it to grey. With the yellow, Flags of All Nations (the Royal Navy flag book) prescribes two kinds of yellow but looking at World Flag Database I'd keep it as one yellow (FAN "Yellow"). Shadows: I think that'd be a discretionary thing, so I'll leave that alone.

New version coming as soon as I post this comment, so keep your eyes peeled. Yaddah 22:50, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Add. : Without having seen FAN 's spec its hard to get nitpicky about these things :D Yaddah 22:59, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt attention. I agree it must be hard without specs. Why don't they publish them openly, grr... pfctdayelise(translate?) 02:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Could anyone with some spare time check out local libraries for the books on my user page? I mean with the difficulty some images are having w.r.t. offline official specifications etc it'd be good if someone had access to specifications.

I've already checked my town's university libraries (×2) and public library system and none of them have flag spec books... BTW if anyone has access to 1940s Australia Gazettes it'd be helpful!

If someone could create a bordered version of the above - all named likewise with (bordered) inserted before the extension, that would be most wonderful. Thanks in advance for your help. Please also add to the Category:SVG flags with border, thanks :) --Barklund 20:16, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll be marking any I see as redundant or whatever the proper template is nowadays. ¦ Reisio 01:52, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

In sports articles listing persons by nationality, small 20px flags are used next to the name to indicate the country. The bordered SVG-versions of the flag is way nicer than HTML- or CSS-bordering of the flags. Small flags with a completely white border or several white corners look where bad on a white background. (using {{border}}) does not look as nice as (using bordered). And the {{border}}-hack is not as easily moved around and managed, as a "real" image is. When using a div (rendered as a table-cell), one is limited in usage – a limitation a true image does not have. Besides that, what is the reason for not creating these images? I will however, try to extend our own flag-system on dawiki with CSS-bordering in stead of bordered images. I hope to make it look nice, but the bordered images are more managable. --Barklund 10:03, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Barklund, although I've also run into some trouble with someone who wanted to add the bordered versions of the flag to articles (where they DON'T belong...). —Nightstallion(?) 10:11, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

The visual difference between using the border template and including the border in the image is trivial IMO. Also, I hope you're not using flag image names in articles - it's best to use some sort of template like en.'s flag country alias name ones so hundreds of articles don't have to be edited every time an image needs to be altered. ¦ Reisio 18:10, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Visual difference is one thing, markup-difference is a whole other – <img /> can be used in some many other places, than <div style="display: table-cell"><img /></div> And yes, we do have a template-system for all countries, all flags – but I don't see what that has to do with anything? The [[Image:Foo.jpg|...]] does not take any border-parameter by any chance, right? So it must be done with <div> or <span>, right? --Barklund 09:57, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

"<img /> can be used in some many other places, than <div style="display: table-cell"><img /></div>" — ...eh? Cite your sources. ¦ Reisio 19:06, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

I have noticed many historical British flags have used this crown on their flags. I was wondering if someone can help draw this crown in the SVG format. Once we do, we can blow many copyvios out of the water. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 21:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Actually I guess we don't need photographs, since the depictions used on the flags are barely accurate. So, maybe just use the St. Edward's Crown from Image:Flag of Queensland.svg - shouldn't be hard to morph it into a Tudor Crown, either. ¦ Reisio 02:42, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

These (except the second last one) were formerly known under the same name as gif files on English wikipedia and examples of them can all be found on this page at FOTW. Thank you for any help. Inge 14:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Why were they deleted from en? ¦ Reisio 20:52, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

They were copyrighted versions, not .svg images. Valentinian(talk) 21:37, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

The problem with converting those versions of the Polish flags to SVG is that the eagle in the shield has a very complex shading pattern. -- Denelson83 08:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, I knew that the shading of the eagle is a problem from the heraldic point of view and now it turns out it's also a technical problem! If at least the colors could be corrected, that would still be better than what there is now. Please let me know if you could do that. Kpalion 09:53, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

I'll give the eagle a shot. As for the solid colors, someone will have to verify that your conversion is accurate. ¦ Reisio 12:06, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

Very well. Just remember that the shades of white and red on the CoA should be the same as on the flag (so it might be better to double check my color conversion before working on the Eagle). Kpalion 13:10, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

It won't matter, would have to change all instances of a six-character string at most. ¦ Reisio 03:04, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

A little bit off-topic, but SVG images form this category doesn't displayed correctly at different resolutions. Could somebody take a look at them? Thank you. --EugeneZelenko 16:30, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

The heraldic name for white is "argent," not silver. -- Denelson83 07:20, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I'm very wondering here, there is already an standardized international color palette for flags: en:FIAV (I'll insert this on the main page) ↔ User: Perhelion (Commons: = crap?) 09:23, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Are there some sort of guidelines as to what the ratio of a flag's length:width should be? Also would it be possible to define a default length and width based upon this ratio so that it can be guaranteed that tricolour flags (the most commons style) use exact sizes for each section and all flags are uniform. Thanks. UberHalogen 19:14, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Ratios vary a lot, but I s'pose there's no harm in standardizing ratios for generic constructions. I think maybe rsvg used to like images with widths of at least 1000px, but that may have been resolved. Oh yes, I am full of certainty. :p ¦ Reisio 01:24, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

After some thinking and going through the /flags page I think a simple 2:3 ratio would be good. Regarding dimensions, it is probably best to use numbers that go into three well so I think 900x600px would be good. Please comment on my ideas. Thanks. UberHalogen 16:09, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

A category has been listed at Commons:Categories for discussion so that the community can discuss whether it should be kept or not. We would appreciate it if you could go to voice your opinion about this at its entry.

If you created this category, please note that the fact that it has been proposed for deletion does not necessarily mean that we do not value your kind contribution. It simply means that one person believes that there is some specific problem with it. If the category is up for deletion because it has been superseded, consider the notion that although the category may be deleted, your hard work (which we all greatly appreciate) lives on in the new category.
In all cases, please do not take the category discussion personally. It is never intended as such. Thank you!

Think the new Fiji glag has similar problems to the old one in that the CoAs comes from Vector-images.com, another unfree site. /Lokal_Profil 11:56, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure you already know this, because I've seen your messages in relevant discussions, but for the benefit of onlookers: no, that image is free to use. If you want to initiate the nth request for disallowing all vector-images.com images, that is of course your right, but until there is a consensus (or at least a corrupt unilateral admin decision) to disallow them, they remain acceptable. Yes, it would be better to have something completely unencumbered, and we can almost certainly get there, but for now I'll settle for a not-quite-perfect image over nothing at all. ¦ Reisio 21:57, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

{{vector-images}} Has been marked as obsolete (even says so in bold letters) after the last DR, where vector-images.com made their opinions on the use of their images quite clear. As a result only VI images from PD sources (such as Russian CoAs) are acceptable on Commons. The fiji CoA Image:Coat of arms of Fiji.png which you have used in the flag is however not from such a PD source and hence unfree. /Lokal_Profil 23:40, 4 April 2008 (UTC)

Hailing from 1908, it's quite impossible it does not originate from a PD source — any other useless information you'd like to share? ¦ Reisio 05:28, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

And for that I reccomend you reading Commons:Coat of Arms, there is a difference between the blazon (from 1908) and the particular interpretation of it (copyrighted by vector-images.com). If you are going to steal the image of vector-images.com then you could just has well have stuck with the one that was stolen from FOTW. /Lokal_Profil 15:24, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

And when you can prove vector-images.com's image isn't derived from an image that's roughly a century old, that distinction will matter. I don't advise trying, though, because you can't, because it quite obviously is. ¦ Reisio 18:25, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

But that the thing vector-images.com's image can be derived from the PD-old image and still be copyrighted since since it contains original elements. Had it been an identical vectorisation of the 1908 image then yes you could have used it but AFAIK it isn't. If you find a version of the CoA that you can prove is from 1908 then you can scan that in and upload it as PD-old, you can even put it into the flag. You can even do you own free interpretation fo the blazon and upload it here. But you can't use the vector-images.com image. /Lokal_Profil 13:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

If it contains original elements, then it's not accurate, and we don't want it anyways. The image in question is accurate, and is therefore lacking in originality.

As I've already said, we can use the image according to Commons policy which has been upheld by several failed deletion requests. This is not the place for you to push your agenda regarding this matter — take it back to Deletion requests, etc..

And once again you get it wrong. A coat of arms is defined by the en:blazon only. Thus any (heraldicly correct) interpretation of it is equally correct. Therefore there is no version which is more accurate then another. Yes there is an official version (the one actually used in 1908) but this differes from the VI.com version in choice of colours and and how Vi.com has choosen to portray details. /Lokal_Profil 18:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

No, you are wrong, and this is the wrong place for you to be wrong. :) ¦ Reisio 22:16, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

We have been trying to find an official color source for the Romanian flag. Other than the three values mentioned in the documents, we haven't been able to get more details. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 06:54, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Things are simple. What does the law says? Cobalt blue, chrome yellow and vermillon red. Now, en:Album des pavillons (2000), considering the pigments above, reccomends the use of the following Pantone colours:

Colour Space

Blue

Yellow

Red

Pantone(r)

280c

116c

186c

RGB

0-43-127

252-209-22

206-17-38

Web

#002B7F

#FCD116

#CE1126

So that's that. No other reliable source gives us the digital versions of those pigments. --Alex:D 18:43, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I almost forgot. According to the same Album des pavillons, Chad uses the following colours:

And a note for mr. Fischer: FOTW site does not use the standard colors, prescribed by law, but a strict palette with about 32 colors: [13]. Also, we cannot trust photos of the flags. Most commercial flags doesn't have the standard nuances, not to mention about camera errors. Even in the photo Image:Balconyroflags.jpg the middle flag has a violet-blue stripe, unlike the other 2. Ultimately, the coat of arms of Romania has heraldic colors (azure, gold, gules etc.), not the flag's one (cobalt blue, chrome yellow and vermillon red). --Alex:D 21:19, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Thank you for the answer. But what about Moldova? Is the blue of its flag realy more light than the Romanian blue? --Patrick 22:29, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

That, I really don't know. According to the presidential site of Moldova, the flag is “to represent precisely the coloured images and the graphic images of the State Flag of the Republic of Moldova, annexed to this Regulation”. The Romanian version of that page presents the flag in colours (obverse and reverse) and the construction sheet of the flag. Those are the colors also used here, on commons. In this case, Album des pavillons reccomends some odd colors:

Romania

Moldova - Presidential site

Moldova - Album des Pavillons

This is worse than the Romanian case, as the Moldavian law does not name the colors explicitly. --Alex:D 23:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

To avoid further similar discutions, on any flag here, I would like to stress the following things:

there is a difference between the colors printed on paper and colors printed on cloth,

there is a difference between printed colors and colors seen on a graphic display,

After those images have been nuked it might be worth searching on "http://www.crwflags.com/fotw" and other mirrors to find the untagged ones. Obviously all such images aren't unfree but a big chunk of them probably are. After this we also have the flags tagged with {{PD-Flag}} =(. /Lokal_Profil 14:40, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I hope you are not getting angry about me, when I am talking again aout FOTW, but there is written: "Syria joined Egypt and Libya on 1st January 1972 to form the Federation of Arab Republics. They adopted the same flag, with minor variations, for the three countries: red-white-black horizontal tricolour with the hawk of Quraish (the tribe of Mohammad) looking to the hoist (at the right side) [?] on the white band with a small inscription of the name of the federation below. Unlike Egypt or Lybia, the name of the country did not appear below the scroll." So, this image would be the flag of Syria, not the one of Egypt. Smith/Neubecker 1980 are showing the same flag (no text below the scroll) for both countries (until 1980), but different CoA (with text below the scroll for Egypt). So, what is the truth? --Patrick 22:47, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

I think the difference was in the coat of arms -- that's certainly what is shown in the book Guide to the Flags of the World by Mauro Talocci ISBN 0-688-01141-1, where the "State arms" of Egypt have an extra inscription beneath the scroll, but the corresponding flag of Egypt doesn't. If you had asked on the talk page of the image itself, I would have answered a lot earlier... AnonMoos (talk) 08:50, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

It would be nice, if we could use the image before 2010. ;-) The information should be possible to find in the artiles. I could upload an PNG-File, but there is no need to produce another image, which will not be needed anymore, when the SVG-File will be uploaded. --Patrick 09:56, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

Well, if we want to use it before 2010, then can someone email a Myanmar diplomatic office and see if a flag construction sheet is around? I feel odd using the colors of Lithuania and just plop a white star on there. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 17:31, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

For the beginning, I posted the link to the new constitution of Myanmar. It is in Birman, but at page 190you can find a picture of the flag. ;-) --Patrick 18:49, 7 June 2008 (UTC)

What should happen with flags of different countries/municipalities/purposes that actually have the same appearance? So far I created an Image:... page and used a redirect instead of uploading a duplicate image but that robs us of a separate description page for the other purposes. Is there an official policy on this? If so, where and which? (I asked this question already on the talk for Category flags; don't hit me) --Johannes Rössel (talk) 22:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Whatever you do I wouldn't fret too much. We're going to have to do some massive cleanup if we ever get the software to support transparent duplication/inclusion/etc.. ¦ Reisio (talk) 23:24, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

The Flag image was changed. The map is now brown-gold instead of yellow. OK, maybe it is the official law, but every flag around in reallity is yellow. So, another SVG-image with a yellow map should exist. --Patrick (talk) 12:07, 6 July 2008 (UTC)

I am currently working on improving the counties of Liberia, and all use to have images of their respective flags. But it appears they were FOTW and deleted. I have found government sources for at least some (possibly all) for what they look like, but I am not a graphic artist and was wondering if there is somewhere to request the creation of these flags. Each would be used on the article about the county (equivalent to a US state), plus their districts, cities in the county, and the article on Liberian counties. Certainly not high priority, but some moderate usage. Thanks. Aboutmovies (talk) 16:55, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

There they are, a flag is in the bottom right corner of the first page of each. Thanks. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:57, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

Don't suppose you can link to something saying government symbols or these images in particular are public domain? Also do you know if the flags al l really have a tiny flag of Liberia in the corner, or if that's just a convention of these files? ¦ Reisio (talk) 22:06, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

I've been trying to find out what the Liberian copyright laws look like, but since they are a third world country and only recently ended decades of strife they have little info online (their copyright office uses a yahoo email account). I've contacted them, and am going to see if I can find any print sources. As to the little Liberian flag, I've seen it elsewhere, so I think that is standard, though I saw it on the FOTW site, and its possible the Liberian government took these images from there. Aboutmovies (talk) 10:28, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

The current Naming conventions section is not defining which flag should be the default named one. There was a clash between editors whether the widely used civil flag should be the default, or the state flag, which is used by the state bodies but not even international ones (like the EU). The text suggest, but not implies, that the default must be the state flag regardless of its use. I think the default should be the most widely used variant, but that's just a suggestion from an outsider. Either way, please specify to prevent endless edit war between editors. (And do the debate between your project members, not with me. :)) Thanks. --grin✎ 12:53, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Now look, Reisio, it is of course possible that you take the offensive stance, attack fellow editors, ignore requests, force your personal opinions down other editor's throats, but it is neither the spirit of Wikipedia nor constructive. As you well noticed the question was phrased politely, not mentioning your way of handling the problem, and not specifying the picture in general, all for preventing comments like yours now. Attacking me you very possibly make your opinion ignored in the future and the fellow editors opinion (who you seem to consider as your opponent instead of partner) adapted. Feel free.

I kindly ask you not to reply if you cannot refrain from making comments based on your emotions. The question wasn't directed towards you but all of the people interested in WikiProject flags. If it turns out that you solehandedly want to force your ideas on others then it won't work. And possibly the picture in question will be protected, to prevent you to change it.

Anyone (including you) are welcome to answer the question. Nobody is welcome to change the topic, here and now. Open a new section if you like to start another discussion about anything else. Thank you. --grin✎ 16:37, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Wow, that took a while to read; now having read it all, I can say this: ...wha? ¦ Reisio (talk) 17:14, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Is there such a thing? I've came across a few ones (mainly drawn in Inkscape with [naturally] horrible code and inaccuracies in positioning and shapes) and while I could maintain my own list of flags to improve (read: re-do) adding a category or a template might be a better way to keep track of it. –Johannes Rössel (talk) 21:11, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Just make a new template & category, like {{messysvg}}. ¦ Reisio (talk) 05:08, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Ok, I'll look into it. Looking at some common templates here this seems to be more work than anticipated with /layout and i18n and documentation externalized, &c. Until then I'll use my own todo list, I think—provided that improving markup or layout of flags is even desirable. —Johannes Rössel (talk) 11:02, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

Well, I didn't participate in color fights so far and I doubt that will be an issue for most sub-national flags (since the national flags all seem to exist already there isn't much to do). I was more aiming at outline and markup issues; things like File:Flag of Võro.svg (that's not a circle as looking at the larger image will tell you), File:Flag of Mustvee.svg (the right end of the wavy line ends before the right edge of the image), File:Flag of Keila vald.svg (various antialiasing issues and seemingly inaccurate placement of the yellow square). Inkscape flags tend to have near-unmaintainable markup and often slight accuracy errors (I am confident my handwritten viewbox approach is a better fit for many flags that do not contain complex imagery like coat of arms). But, back to the point, I doubt that for flags of some small town or municipality anyone would start an edit war over the colors. —Johannes Rössel (talk) 11:19, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Just FYI then :p You have been informed. ¦ Reisio (talk) 16:56, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

With Inkscape, you can be able to fix the errors by hand and I will see what I can do later. User:Zscout370(Return fire) 15:24, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I'd rather avoid using Inkscape if I can help it. And simple shapes are much easier to write by hand than to use Inkscape for them; besides, I then have the guarantee that they are exact and I don't have to clean the markup afterwards. —Johannes Rössel (talk) 15:52, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

I've been expanding and creating articles about the Imperial British East Africa Company, Kenya and Unganda Railways and Harbours, its successor East African Railways and Harbours Corporation and lake and river steamers belonging to each of these organisations. The IBEAC had its own Union Flag defaced with the company badge. KURH had its own blue ensign and "land flag", each of which was defaced with the organisation's badge. EARH had a new badge and correspondingly defaced blue ensign.

There is not, and cannot be, any rigid requirement that flags be exactly 1024px wide. If the comments on the project page could give rise to this misconception, then they should be rephrased... AnonMoos (talk) 04:43, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

WikiProject Chemistry has an own subpage transcluding DRs concerning chemistry. The (additional) transclusion is made by a script, i.e. no additional manual edits are necessary. This assures that chemistry-related DRs are reviewed by users interested/knowledgeable in this subject.
I thought that such a subpage for DRs related to flags, CoA etc. might also be helpful for this WikiProject. An adapted version of the script may easily be created. --Leyo 09:14, 2 September 2015 (UTC)

Has anyone from WP or WMF ever requested a copyright clarification direct from the editors at Flags Of The World? Many websites have made specific copyright rules/exceptions for Wikipedia usage, and while they currently seem relatively fair to me for our purposes, we still get flags regularly deleted on questionable justification of copyright if they cite FOTW as a source.

Primarily we should look for clarification on our creation of .svg "derivatives" (they all tend to simplify resolution significantly), but if we're extra nice we should ask for "clarification" of their "5% rule"[14]. Again, this is all if we haven't asked them already, which honestly by now we should have – I cannot find any reference to it however. SamuelRiv (talk) 13:47, 16 November 2016 (UTC)