This is the way I see it.
The U.S. government claims terrorist group hijacked some airplanes and crashed them into the World Trade Center, Pentagon, and one somewhere in the
woods.

Conspiracy people say that the Pentagon was hit by a missile. The WTC was either vaporized or destroyed through some type of energy beam in
combination with very very hot fires. The plane that crashed in the woods was shot down.

Those are the two sides as I see them. My personal postition is this: On 9/11, the WTC and pentagon were attacked. Thats it. It will be just the
facts for me until I find enough evidence pointing to either side myself.

If you have the time read Jim Marrs' book, " The Terror Conspiracy". A little out of date but still provides a good overview of the events. Poring
through the minutiae is a daunting task. I came here for the 9/11 forum but I now avoid it like the black death.

First time a huge 757 fit into a 16 foot hole (Pentagon), think of trying to fit
a Cow into a Rabbit hole

First time a Multi Trillion Dollar Military was Biotch Slapped by
cavemen using 20 dollars worth of plastic knives

First time the Law of Physics took a day off, Take two 47 floor buildings
suspend them in the air , and take the bottem 16 floors off of 1 of
them, then drop them both, on that day, they both reached the ground
at the same time

First time 4 Flight Recorders on a Land based crash "disappeared "
when these things are titanium build to survive plane crashes

Countless more, but I will hand it over for other posters to
contribute in this fun thread

*Fact*, Pentagon officials lied to the 911 commissionaires
*Fact*, 911 commissionaires wanted to go to the Justice department and demand a criminal investigation.
*Fact*, several 911 commissionaires admitted they lied in their 911 report, they said the story they told was not the story the pentagon officials
told them.
*Fact*, Robert Muller head of the FBI admitted that we might never know who the real hijackers really were, because they left no paper trail.
*Fact*, most of the hijackers were using stolen identities; therefore their DNA couldn’t be matched to anyone.
*Fact*, all four airplanes were never properly identified.
*Fact*, the FBI admitted there was no investigation into the four planes that were allegedly hijacked.
*Fact*, under the FOIA the records show flight 93 was still airborne “seven miles” pass the alleged crash site.
*Fact*, Mayor in Ohio made a Press release stating flight 93 landed at Cincinnati airport.
*Fact*, eyewitness account saw a jetliner fly on the south side of the pentagon not the north side as the government claims.
*Fact*, after explosion at pentagon the first photos revel no airplane wreckage on pentagon lawn.
*Fact*, before pentagon collapse, early photos show only a small entry hole.
*Fact*, eighty videos were seized at the pentagon and nearby business, yet not one video seem to capture a plane hitting the pentagon.
*Fact*, it has now been proven that Ted Olsen lied to the Press about is wife Barbra Olen phone call from hijack plane, it never happened.
*Fact*, No passengers families showed up at arrival airports in SF, LA demanding answers, nothing.
*Fact*, NIST has been caught lying publicly in Press interviews and in their reports.
*Fact*, NIST has been approached by A&E, about their pseudo science and has been force to admitted freefall on WTC 7.
*Fact*, Nano Thermite ,Nano Thermate have been found in the WTC dust, a chemical compound ingredient that is used in making explosive devices, and
burns at extremes tempters.
*Fact*, NIST refuses to investigated or acknowledge there were explosions, witnessed before the WTC came down.
*Fact*, FBI hid over five hundred eyewitness account, of being in the explosions, seeing, and hearing explosions at the WTC.
*Fact*, FBI placed gag orders on NYC police, firemen, FAA, United airlines, American airlines.
*Fact*, all WTC debris was removed quickly and all the dump trucks had tacking devises on them, so no stops where made to their given destination.
*Fact*, surviving families of the WTC tragedy, are not satisfied with the government answers to the events of 911.
*Fact*, Many hi-ranking military officers and politicians are convinced 911 was an inside job and have made it known publicly.
*Fact*, most of the OS has been proven a lie.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Ive ignored this Forum for years because of all the anger involved and because I dont have the patience to read 100+ links and books. Can you initiate
me? Summarize it for me?

How important is your quest for truth? If you don't have the patience to read links and books, then you're never gonna learn the truth, because
it's very complex.

I'll say it like this regarding 911, it is BEST for you to do your own investigating and searching for the answers to your questions on this topic.
There are many BS websites, videos, people that can send you down a path of absurdness if you let it. On the other hand, there are so many flaws in
the OS that it makes one wonder what our government is really all about. Still, I believe YOU have to be the judge of the information you decide to
believe regarding 911 then, go with it from there.

Originally posted by fleetlord
This is the way I see it.
The U.S. government claims terrorist group hijacked some airplanes and crashed them into the World Trade Center, Pentagon, and one somewhere in the
woods.

Hmmm. AQ said they did it. The US government is going by those who claimed to do it with evidence that backed up that these Pakistan trained people
actually did pull it off. Did the US government know before it happened that it would, yep, they had that intel.

And Kalid Sheik Mohammed really did chop off Daniel Pearl's head. The US government didn't have anything to do with that. Instead he was working on
a story that would prove the ISI was one with AQ.

Problem is there aren't alot of terrorism experts in the US government. Those that are private are harrassed by CAIR and those who are muslims won't
speak out because of death threats.

Originally posted by GoldenFleece
How important is your quest for truth? If you don't have the patience to read links and books, then you're never gonna learn the truth, because
it's very complex.

There are trillions of other subjects of study in the world. Some of us would just prefer to have the experts weed through all of it for us and then
present summaries. An expert can find their own words to explain what was read.

As a result of misuse of powers by the CIA, FBI, DoD in the 50s, 60s, 70s, the Church Commission was created in 1975-6 to investigate said matters.
On Feb 28, 1976, President Ford issued Executive Order 11905 that enacted many of the recommendations of the Committee. Of the provisions, Federal
agencies are severely restricted on the information they can share amongst themselves. More to the point, it prevents those working on
intelligence/terrorism matters from sharing evidence with criminal investigators. Also, during the 70s, the CIA is directed to rely more on Signal
Intelligence rather than Human Intelligence hampering the ability of knowing what is going on, on the ground.

During the late 70s/early 80s, there is an upswing in Islamic terrorism. In response, the military forms several elite teams to deal with this threat
among them, the Delta Force and SEAL team 6. To help US installations, another team is formed to test the homeland defenses. (as I can personally
attest, this team, Red Cell, was extremely good at showing how just unprepared we were for homeland terrorist attacks). Unfortunately, Red Cell is so
"successful" in doing its job, which included at one point, "taking" Air Force One during a test of Air Force security, it falls victim to the
politics of the Pentagon. Too many high ranking officers were embarrassed.

In the late 80s-early 90s, the Cold War ends. In the wake of this, in order to free up more money for domestic matters, a meat cleaver is taken to
the US military. One of the first victims, our Continental Air Defense. Our bombers are taken off alert and 75% of the alert fighters are stood
down, leaving only 14 fighters armed and on alert for the Continental United States. For the rest of the Air Force/Navy/Marine fighters..their
weapons are downloaded and stored in bunkers.

Also, we have Desert Shield/Storm, which inflames certain individuals, among them a Saudi named Osama Bin Laden, who feels that his homeland does not
need the infidels (mainly the US military) to defend it. His activities eventually cause his family to publicly disown him and his country to revoke
his citizenship. Thus starts his war against us, involving embassy bombings, Somalia, and a few other things including the bombing of the WTC in
1993. Fortunately for him, we have an administration that feels terrorists are best dealt with by law enforcement rather than the use of force. In
addtion, the Clinton Administration further hinders the ability of our intelligence agenices by requiring they only deal with people who do not have
"civil/human rights" issues. In other words, we can only talk to the "nice" people. This only makes us look "weaker" in the eyes of OBL.

In the late 90s-early 2001, there are many reports that something is being planned. One investigation involving Zacharias Moussari comes to the
attention of Jamie Gorelick, a Clinton appointee to the Justice Department. The investigators feel that certain information is pointing to a massive
terrorist attack and should be shared with other agencies. Ms. Gorelick denies the request based on the Church Commission, current laws and
directives from her boss, Janet Reno. In addition, several other agencies have developed simliar information, but also are unable to share it to a
severe CYA mentality that exists among departmental officers.

On Sept. 11, 2001, we paid dearly for 30 years of trying to do the politically correct thing and be "nice" for past transgressions.

Many posters argue that there was no way a terrorist could get to us that easily. Why not? We all but threw out the welcome mat.

1. why first time in history 3 buildings colapse due to fire ?
- 2 were struck by a plane
- 3rd wasnt (wtc7)
2. How did exacly "plane" hit pentagon leaving such a small hole and no debree?
3. why witnesses report they heard explosions before towers started to fall
4. how 3 buildings fall in almost "freefall" speed due to fire on a frickin same day ?
5. why on 9/11 and 7/7 there were "drills" simulating exact for 7/7 and simillar on 9/11 attacks?

Unfortunately, 9/11 for dummies already exists. It's called Fox News. If you are dumb enough, you just watch that and they will fill you full of
opinions.
Fox = Where America Gets Its Views.

.....I await the usual "Oh no it isn't" type response to that from the usual suspects.

You can't really get a 'treetop' view on this subject - from either side. The only thing I could suggest would be to focus on only one of the many
'coincidences' of that day and find as much information as you can on that one item. Then move to the next.

For me, there are just too many coincidences that happened. Too many questions, and not enough answers. There's just not enough common sense, logic,
and science involved with the OS. There's too much "because we say so." Do I believe all the conspiracy theories? No. Of course not.
That said, I find the OS completely impossible to swallow. I keep looking for the most logical explanations. Unfortunately the OS carries very few of
these.

Sorry, but you will have to some research and summarizing for yourself on this.

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