i think they are stating the obvious, i mean when i scan a room whether eating out or at the park i naturally zero in on the guy with the gun. So to me, it's probably likely that criminals do the same, don't need to back it up with statics<--oops "statistics", if its everyone's natural inclination to do so....

Other than the case that RussP mentioned, I don't know if there is any sort of trend that could be observed statistically.

I have OC'd a few times, but that was in a National Forest where it was legal to do so, and at the time Colorado did NOT have a CCW permit.

I have no problem with people OC'ing if they choose to do so (where it's legal to do so). I personally prefer concealed carry because it offers more options.

If you are OC'ing in a business, and a robbery goes down, you might be forced into taking some sort of action that you didn't want to take.

If you are carrying concealed, you have the choice as to if you wish to get involved, to what extend you wish to get involved, and can pick the timing to best benefit your tactics.

As Mas Ayoob has written many times (paraphrased): You make your choices and you live with the consequences.

I mostly carry a J-Frame .38 with a couple extra re-loads on speed strips. I know many people would consider me to be woefully under-armed, and dumb for not carrying a hi-capacity semi-auto with 4 extra 33 round magazines. . But I know the limitations of my J-Frame and have chosen to live with that "risk". If I'm ever attacked by 6 zombies and only have 5 shots, feel free to say to me. . .

I made my choice and will live (or not) with the consequences of that decision.

__________________Bill
Pacific NW

The urge to save humanity is almost always a false-face for the urge to rule it.
- H. L. Mencken -

You say occasionally, meaning it happens from time to time. In another thread we are looking for exactly that information, the times OC'ers have been murdered with their own weapon. Would you please list the times you know of and provide the links to the incidents? It will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...

I thought of this one ten seconds after I read this post.

Emelio Briel.

And, everyone here I bet, knows his story, but not his name. And, that's the problem. It's hard to collate facts into a different category in our minds.

You say occasionally, meaning it happens from time to time. In another thread we are looking for exactly that information, the times OC'ers have been murdered with their own weapon. Would you please list the times you know of and provide the links to the incidents? It will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks...

Not having specific stories is exactly why I said occasionally. I remember reading news stories about it several times this year.

The phenomenon of needing a pinpoint cite to every opinion and statement in conversation is pretty Internet exclusive.

But, why not? He was open carrying. They took his gun from him and they shot him with his own gun, if remember the ballistics forensics correctly.

People want new articles to match the framed question exactly. That rarely happens in real life.

It is probably pretty likely they waited until his gun was empty from shooting then took it from him at gun point. Why deal with a person with a loaded gun when you know it will be empty soon enough.

Same with why mess with someone clearly armed when there are so many unarmed to prey on. I bet guys 5' 2" 120 get mugged more then guys 6' 3" 250. As long as you can find the 5' 2" guys why bother with the bigger ones.

It is probably pretty likely they waited until his gun was empty from shooting then took it from him at gun point. Why deal with a person with a loaded gun when you know it will be empty soon enough.

Same with why mess with someone clearly armed when there are so many unarmed to prey on. I bet guys 5' 2" 120 get mugged more then guys 6' 3" 250. As long as you can find the 5' 2" guys why bother with the bigger ones.

They didn't have a choice. The agents cornered them and they fought pretty hard. Sure the bad guys would have preferred to keep being bad guys picking on the weak and vulnerable. Unless your desire is to go out in a blaze of glory or suicide by cop best to stick to the weakest targets you can find that have something worth taking makes for a longer career.

The phenomenon of needing a pinpoint cite to every opinion and statement in conversation is pretty Internet exclusive.

Really? Most legal opinions I read have specific cites, but notwithstanding that, yes, we do like pinpoint cites when references are made to specific incidents, or specific quantifying statements about a category, like your "occasionally" statement.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LawScholar

Not having specific stories is exactly why I said occasionally. I remember reading news stories about it several times this year.

But, why not? He was open carrying. They took his gun from him and they shot him with his own gun, if remember the ballistics forensics correctly.

People want new articles to match the framed question exactly. That rarely happens in real life.

My recollection is that their MO was s little different from the "sudden grab" tactic... IIRC, they did the friendly "hey can I see that" thing, then popped him with it.

Personally, I don't generally OC for primarily this reason- the quick grab tactic, especially in a crowd or busy street. When I've OC'ed, it's been either out in the woods, or on the way home from the range, etc., just put the pistol in an OWB, and stopped for gas or a sandwich. Where I am is pretty rural, so no crowds to worry about, and no negative comments.

I'm just asking a question. It seems to me most criminals {the exception being the Richmond BP case} would be more likely to look for someplace else to rob, if they see armed people ready to defend themselves and others.

Yet, in every OC thread, at least one person drops that little gem of "common knowledge" like there is a college thesis every one but me has read showing concrete proof it is a fact. Since it is always stated like it is fact.

__________________
Dear Lord, Thank You for guiding me straight and true through the many obstacles in my path. Thank You for any good that I may have done, I'm so sorry about the bad.

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