Qatar agrees contract for Typhoon aircraft

The contract, valued at approximately £5bn, is for the supply of Typhoon aircraft to the Qatar Emiri Air Force along with a bespoke support and training package.

BAE say that the contract is subject to financing conditions and receipt of the first payment, which is expected to be fulfilled no later than mid-2018.

The contract provides for 24 Typhoon aircraft with delivery expected to commence in late 2022.

BAE Systems is the prime contractor for both the provision of the aircraft and the agreed arrangements for the in-service support and initial training.

Charles Woodburn, BAE Systems Chief Executive said:

“We are delighted to begin a new chapter in the development of a long-term relationship with the State of Qatar and the Qatar Armed Forces, and we look forward to working alongside our customer as they continue to develop their military capability.

This agreement is a strong endorsement of Typhoon’s leading capabilities and underlines BAE Systems’ long track record of working in successful partnership with our customers.”

With 623 aircraft ordered, Eurofighter Typhoon is currently the largest military procurement programme in Europe say BAE.

Recently it was claimed that Typhoon has ‘proven its swing role capabilities’ during Operation Shader, according to Air Vice Marshal Gerry Mayhew at a media briefing at the Dubai Air Show 2017.

Mayhew said that Typhoon’s role had matured over two years of operations over Syria and Iraq as part of the coalition offensive against DAESH.

“Throughout that time Typhoon has evolved from simply a kinetic operation to a swing role, with the aircraft working effectively alongside many coalition partners. The aircraft is armed air-to-air and air-to-ground every time we leave the ground.

We have built up a great deal of experience in Typhoon working swing role and working with many other different types of aircraft where we are able to datalink – using the links for both kinetic and air-to-air operations.

All the five UK RAF squadrons have cycled through Operation SHADER and we are now into a second rotation of the squadrons.”

I see they ordered another 12 rafale from france taking that order to 36. Im still shocked they are able to compete on price given their development costs where spread across less than half the number of typhoons produced. Now the F35 is under cutting both planes and trump is pushing the sales i dont see either jets making many more big sales.

BB85 – Tell that to Canada who are ‘not highly amused’ with Boeing and the US Government. They have already stopped negotiating for interim F-18 Hornets and from what I can see are looking East rather than South with Canadian integrators and major suppliers looking to work with the UK (Type 26)

Even that gentleman of gentlemen Michael Fallon made his point to Boeing over the Bombardier Tariffs and Trudeau was very complimentary about how Theresa May went into bat with him against Trump when they all met in the USA.

Canada has always preferred twin engined swing role aircraft and there are only two that can fit that: Typhoon and Rafale. LM may still land it for the F-35 but you can bet Canada will say’ Stop the trade bullshit before we buy’. And given the numbers the RAF have we could set up a training and conversion squadron very quickly in Canada. Having said that the French Navy have a few naval Rafales sitting around doing nothing.

I’m convinced the French are happy to subsidise their exports to maintain their industry and will therefore undercut the Typhoon and T26. I don’t believe Egypt is paying full price for its Rafale and Corvettes, it wouldn’t surprise me if France was paying 50% of the total costs.

Get the direct subsidies right and the benefits to the wider economy, economic base and intellectual property would more than offset a few extra billion here or there.

The problem is- how do you quantify these wider benefits and I think therein lies our problem. The continentals are very much principle orientated, we are more evidence based. They derive they’re opinions on the basis of reason from theory. We base ours in experience. Both have their pros and cons.

My problem with our approach is that some things just can’t be evidenced reliably or easily but aren’t any less true because of it. Just because we can’t test and analyse things with our 5 senses doesn’t mean those things are not meaningful. Vast realms of mathematics, physics and the human experience depend not on our ability to verify them but on theory and intuition. And after all – even evidences need to be interpreted.

At the end of the day humans are subjective and relative beings and therefore everything we touch, to some extent, will be relativized and subjectivised. But that doesn’t mean that those things are in and of themselves subjective or relative.

Evidence is useful and should be a useful guiding “principle” but in my opinion we should invest more often on the basis of theory and intuition and not be hamstrung always by “facts”, which are always contextually dependent and relative to how they are measured, codified, described and perceived.

The RAF wants more typhoons, why not they are great jets. It would be great if this order can keep the Eurofighter production line open for a few more years. The F35B needs to be ordered so we have more than 96 aircraft in active RAF/FAA service but other than that I would love to see a further 24-48 Eurofighters ordered for the RAF. I am worried about the lack of numbers in RAF order of battle. 5 squadrons of Eurofighters is not really enough to provide squadron sized deployments and attritional loses, servicing and training.

Hi Pacman, I understand the thrust of your argument, and you make some sound points. However, I would be reluctant to put all our “eggs” into the F-35B basket. Evidence suggests that we will continue to deploy our fast-jets on operations from land-bases – not QE class carriers. (Albeit, I acknowledge what a useful addition big strike carriers will make to UK combat power). The STOVL F-35B gives great flexibility, albeit with some performance limitations – in particular range. I have concerns at ploughing so much national treasure into the B variant, when it can be argued that carrier-strike for the UK is a niche capability. We haven’t needed it since the Falklands conflict – and even successfully deployed our air-power from land-bases during the Libyan campaign. A better fit for operations in which the UK is likely to be engaged is the F-35A. But this thread really about the Typhoon; an outstanding 4.5 generation jet – and evidence from pilots at Red Flag would seem to indicate that in some flight profiles it is the equal of the F-22 (the benchmark for 5th gen aircraft). Like Mister Bell, I don’t believe a top-up order of another 30-40 Typhoons would be a disaster for the RAF, or UK industry. But if one must prioritise a single aircraft type over another, then I would argue that aircraft should be the F-35A. As always, good to debate with you.

Mike – And in any case after Trump made the disastrous Jerusalem recognition error and the continued massive US funding of Israeli military spending no Muslim state is going to do any business with any US supplier any time soon. Those of us in ‘the West’ should not under estimate the importance that Muslims place on the Al-Aqsa site (or Bayt al-Maqdis). It is the third holiest site in Islam and is located in the Old City of Jerusalem.

Which leaves the Qatari order for 36 F-15 jets @ $12 Bn announced just last June in an interesting place. After all the Qataris were initially buying 72 F-15s but after Trump severely criticised Qatar over terrorism that order was actually floated to be cancelled but during a proposed Boeing 787 deal they were told ‘Yes but only if you buy fighters’. Given they cannot buy F-35s they resorted to a balanced fleet of 24 each of F-15, Typhoon and Rafale (which is also a surprise given they were entirely Dassault resourced) to make up the 72.

So there is the possibility bearing in mind the order is already reduced from 72 to 24 because of one Trump fcuk up Qatar may now just say to the USA “OK Mr Trump shove your 90 odd Boeing 787 and 777 and 24 F-15 aircraft” and look to Airbus / EADS for 24 more Typhoons and 90 A350 aircraft of which they already fly and have on order 79 and were the launch customer

Airbus have 107 aircraft in fleet with 110 ordered. Boeing have 75 aircraft in fleet but 102 on order and 30 of those were ‘levered’ with F-15 fighters.

The media has blown the Jerusalem issue out of all proportion. Saudi and Israel relations have never been as close given their common enemy (which is very strange I know). If there ever is a settlement West Jerusalem will be part of Palestine so why could both states not share the same capital if the border cuts through both.

BB85 – Please do not think this is in any way a ‘media event’. How would Christians react if an Italian Government sequestrated the Vatican? Jerusalem is a very unique city and its religious importance to the three main religions is totally unique. The only peaceful solution is for it to be declared an open city with administration shared by the three religions. There must never ever be any political interference by one side.

And you dismiss what Israel is proposing here. They see no ‘line down the middle’ at all. When they say Jerusalem they mean ALL of Jerusalem and by use of increasing illegal Settler growth they also mean more of the Palestinian West Bank as well where 60% of which is under Israeli control anyway.

Israel does not want and never wanted a ‘two state solution’ because a Palestinian State next door reminds the world who the Israelis stole their country from … Better to eradicate them completely, their shrines and their history. the issue is that the Mosque isn’t just a Palestinin shrine it is a global Islamic place of huge importance. Israel is now giving Islam the middle finger.

Sorry if this sounds extreme but take a closer look at how Israel has played all this since 1947 and how they are now allowed to accelerate this policy with that idiot Trump in the White House. A very clever and astute tail is wagging a rather dumb and incompetent dog …

Due to spares, training and logistics support, most countries opt for a purchase of one type of fast jet – or two that can compliment each other. Qatar has ordered three roughly similar types (Rafale 36, F-15QA 36, Typhoon 24). Qatar also has a limited potential fighter pilot pool due to its relatively small population (2.7 million).

It almost appears that the main reason for the purchases is to provide forward deployed squadrons of current fats jets that its allies pilots can simply be flown out to fly in the event of local major conflict.

This latest purchase is most curious given that the Qatari Air Force has only around 1900 members in total. The population is indeed around 2.5 Million depending on the season but there are only actually 350 000-odd Qataris. The rest of the population is made up of migrant workers (of whom I used to be one). Word on the street in Doha is that the air-force will outsource to Pakistan and Jordan for pilots but the aim is to operate the new acquisitions in proper active squadrons – just not operated by Qataris!

I agree with many comments on here British armament sales will be increased because of Trump in the White House. There is a reasonable chance type 26 will be ordered by Canada and Australia The type 26 or 31 could even be in with a shout for the USNavy fxxg Atlantic escort project ( 28-32 frigates needed by 2035). I think as F35 is not available to middle Eastern and some Asian customers there is a chance Eurofighter could steal some orders. Ditto Nato partner nations in Eastern Europe. It would give the industry a shot in the arm and prove our trust in the type if the RAF ordered a further 24-36 tranche 3 aircraft. As for the F35 programme once we have ordered a further 36-48 of the B version airframes I would be fine with a small 36 aircraft order for the A version to go to the RAF. we need more Bs then the current 48 forecast by 2030 for the simple reasons of 1) need to equip in an emergency both WE carriers with 36 F35Bs to deliver a deep strike package and sortie rate of +72 sorties per day. 2) airfields and there long runways are vulnerable to cruise missile strikes (look what 40 tomahawks did to the Syrian air force base responsible for chemical weapons atrocities (airbase knocked out of action for +2 weeks and 20% of Syria’s fast jet fleet destroyed on the ground. Only the F35B can deliver fast jet performance without a runway! Russia and China are investing massively in saturation cruise, hypersonic and ballistic missile technology for this reason. To knock out the enemy on their home territory. We should never forget this, the only solution is the F35B at this time.