Obamacare architect Zeke Emanuel claims in his new book that the health care reform law will result in “the end of employer-sponsored insurance.”

Despite President Barack Obama’s claim that “if you like your plan, you can keep it” — a talking point developed in his first 100 days in office by a tiny but influential left-wing messaging group called the Herndon Alliance — his administration has long planned to disassemble the current U.S. insurance industry as well as alter health care reform.

Indaswamp wrote:Yep. It is my belief that the colossal fustercluck that is Obamacare was intentionally engineered to turn out the way it is.

I think you give them far too much credit.

Corrupt or well intended but totally clueless and incompetent, there are no other choices, so it makes no difference. Only a total moron would want these people in charge of anything important.

Obama Hater, "They things up because they meant to"

Obama Defender, "You just hate Obama otherwise you would see that he clearly things up because he didn't know how to not things up."

Sane Person, "Who cares why he things up? We need to get people in there that won't things up"

Obama Hater, "We must know why? That's the most important thing."

Obama Defender, "The only thing that matters is that he tries and he cares. Do you care more whether a doctor cares or is competent? Do you care more whether a teacher cares or is competent? It's not the results that matter, but the intention."

Sane Person,

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

Indaswamp wrote:Yep. It is my belief that the colossal fustercluck that is Obamacare was intentionally engineered to turn out the way it is.

I think you give them far too much credit.

Corrupt or well intended but totally clueless and incompetent, there are no other choices, so it makes no difference. Only a total moron would want these people in charge of anything important.

Obama Hater, "They things up because they meant to"

Obama Defender, "You just hate Obama otherwise you would see that he clearly things up because he didn't know how to not things up."

Sane Person, "Who cares why he things up? We need to get people in there that won't things up"

Obama Hater, "We must know why? That's the most important thing."

Obama Defender, "The only thing that matters is that he tries and he cares. Do you care more whether a doctor cares or is competent? Do you care more whether a teacher cares or is competent? It's not the results that matter, but the intention."

Sane Person,

OK....

The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Indaswamp wrote:Yep. It is my belief that the colossal fustercluck that is Obamacare was intentionally engineered to turn out the way it is.

I think you give them far too much credit.

Corrupt or well intended but totally clueless and incompetent, there are no other choices, so it makes no difference. Only a total moron would want these people in charge of anything important.

Obama Hater, "They things up because they meant to"

Obama Defender, "You just hate Obama otherwise you would see that he clearly things up because he didn't know how to not things up."

Sane Person, "Who cares why he things up? We need to get people in there that won't things up"

Obama Hater, "We must know why? That's the most important thing."

Obama Defender, "The only thing that matters is that he tries and he cares. Do you care more whether a doctor cares or is competent? Do you care more whether a teacher cares or is competent? It's not the results that matter, but the intention."

Sane Person,

OK....

I'm just sick of this corrupt or incompetent debate.

It does not matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yet, we get hung up on this stupid debate about intent.

I can't read minds. And just because he wants something doesn't prove anything. He didn't even write his namesake law. These things are simply unknowable.

We know all we need to know and that is that only a moron would vote for people this incompetent. Yet trying to dig deeper into motive just allows the Obamabots to ignore reality. Something they are exceptionally good without any help. You have to keep it simple for the stupid.

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

If an employer doesn't offer health insurance for employees, he must pay a $2,000 penalty per employee. But that same employer would pay a penalty of up to $36,500 for providing “substandard” insurance that doesn't offer all benefits deemed necessary in ObamaCare. As Rep. Diane Black (R-TN) put it, “Only ObamaCare could create a system that carries 18 times the fine for providing insurance coverage to employees than for not providing any coverage at all.” The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or f-ing beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.- Al Swearengen

I knew right away there would be no reason for an employer to provide health care if the govt would. It's a big cost for companies. I still believe that a govt run health care can be a good thing, but not what we have right now

goldfish wrote:I still believe that a govt run health care can be a good thing

How much of the health care industry are we talking about nationalizing?

Just the insurance? The hospitals? The pharmaceutical industry? Should nurses and doctors be federal employees?

Maybe in theory it can be. In practice, it never will be.

However, I'm more than happy to let San Francisco, Chicago, Detroit, or any other city that wants to try the experiment to give it a go. That way when it fails, it doesn't wreck the entire health care system of the nation.

The government should not do anything that it "believes" they can do better until they have proven that they can in fact do it better.

Every state in the U.S. could have passed Romneycare/Obamacare. If Romneycare was so awesome, why haven't other states jumped on board? Why did Obama as a state legislator not push Illinois to run his grand experiment if it was a good thing?

I do not believe it is possible for government run health care to ever in practice be better than mediocre and high side and complete catastrophe on the downside. Given that we have a very good system, something my wife unfortunately uses frequently and something that I have been using more than I care to lately, why screw with the entire system? Small, cautious fixes is the way to go

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

SpinnerMan wrote:Given that we have a very good system,.............. why screw with the entire system? Small, cautious fixes is the way to go

Because the new law and resultant fustercluck is designed to fail, both you and everyone else. IT'S NOT ABOUT PROVIDING BETTER, MORE AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. IT'S ABOUT CONTROLLING YOU, YOUR MONEY, AND DESTROYING THE CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. What we're all feeling now is just a taste of what's to come if this anathema is allowed to stand.

I pray to God that before Boehner is run out of town on a rail, he has enough of a sack to propose the House, Senate, and their respective staffs have to comply with this curse like the rest of us.

Pain or damage don't end the world. Or despair or f-ing beatings. The world ends when you're dead. Until then, you got more punishment in store. Stand it like a man... and give some back.- Al Swearengen

SpinnerMan wrote:Given that we have a very good system,.............. why screw with the entire system? Small, cautious fixes is the way to go

Because the new law and resultant fustercluck is designed to fail, both you and everyone else. IT'S NOT ABOUT PROVIDING BETTER, MORE AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. IT'S ABOUT CONTROLLING YOU, YOUR MONEY, AND DESTROYING THE CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. What we're all feeling now is just a taste of what's to come if this anathema is allowed to stand.

I pray to God that before Boehner is run out of town on a rail, he has enough of a sack to propose the House, Senate, and their respective staffs have to comply with this curse like the rest of us.

nitram, the problem is the medical monopolies and the exemption from the anti trust act. This enables the exorbant price fixing prevalent throughout the system. THAT is the way to fix the problem making healthcare more affordable.

The Cajun 7 Course Meal; 1 lb. of boudin and a six pack of Abita beer.

Here’s a prediction: By 2025, “fewer than 20 percent of workers in the private sector will receive traditional employer-sponsored health insurance.” The source of this claim? Dr. Ezekiel J. Emanuel, in his just-published book, “Reinventing American Health Care.”

Dr. Emanuel is an accomplished oncologist, medical ethicist and academic (and contributing opinion writer to The New York Times). And, of course, he’s no stranger to politics: He helped craft the Affordable Care Act as a health policy adviser to the Obama administration, when his brother, Rahm, now the mayor of Chicago, was chief of staff. The book is a full-throated defense of the law (its subtitle: “How the Affordable Care Act Will Improve Our Terribly Complex, Blatantly Unjust, Outrageously Expensive, Grossly Inefficient, Error Prone System”).

In it, Mr. Emanuel argues that in the next two or three years, “a few big, blue-chip companies will announce their intention to stop providing health insurance. Instead, they will raise salaries substantially or offer large, defined contributions to their workers. Then the floodgates will open.” He says that few small businesses will join the SHOP exchanges set up for them and that most of those that offer coverage are even more likely than big companies to drop it, since those who employ fewer than 50 workers face no mandate to offer it in the first place, which Mr. Emanuel thinks is fine.

The total cavalier way that these egomaniacs screw with people's lives. It explains how the Communists killed so many as the tried to fundamentally change their economy.

Q.Do you think that the Obama administration wanted to get companies away from coverage?

And why think through something that they thought, or claimed anyways, was so critically important?

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.

SpinnerMan wrote:Given that we have a very good system,.............. why screw with the entire system? Small, cautious fixes is the way to go

Because the new law and resultant fustercluck is designed to fail, both you and everyone else. IT'S NOT ABOUT PROVIDING BETTER, MORE AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE. IT'S ABOUT CONTROLLING YOU, YOUR MONEY, AND DESTROYING THE CURRENT HEALTH CARE SYSTEM. What we're all feeling now is just a taste of what's to come if this anathema is allowed to stand.

I pray to God that before Boehner is run out of town on a rail, he has enough of a sack to propose the House, Senate, and their respective staffs have to comply with this curse like the rest of us.

nitram, the problem is the medical monopolies and the exemption from the anti trust act. This enables the exorbant price fixing prevalent throughout the system. THAT is the way to fix the problem making healthcare more affordable.

Huffingtonpost says it is too late to dismantle, ObamCare is entrenched in society now

The Insurance companies will get a bailout when they do not meet their profit margins, it's guaranteed in O'Care

“Nothing makes me more certain of the victory of our ideas than our success in the universities” – Adolf H, 1930

At The Atlantic's Health Care Forum in Washington on Thursday, health care and business professionals said that there’s an increasing trend in the industry toward cutting insurance companies out of the process entirely, as large, regional hospital systems move into the insurance business.

Related: Obamacare - Taxpayers in the Hole for $1.5 Trillion

Dr. Kenneth L. Davis, CEO and president of Mount Sinai Health System, the largest health care provider in the state of New York, said that starting next year, Mt. Sinai will begin offering its own Medicare Advantage plan. It will look for other opportunities to bring premium payments directly into the hospital system, rather than filtering them through insurance companies.

Davis said he expects organizations similar to his to move in the same direction. “Inevitably the large systems are going to move to take part of the premium dollar,” he said.

For both non-profit systems like Mt. Sinai and for-profit systems, he said, retaining more and more of the health care premiums paid by consumers is essential to providing a full spectrum of care. He said that his system’s St. Luke’s Hospital in New York runs a psychiatric program that loses $14 million per year.

It’s “not sustainable,” he said, so the system needs to cross-subsidize the money-losing services that it nonetheless must continue to provide, with income from more profitable services, such as orthopedic surgery.

I apparently have pretty bad acromioclavicular arthritis in my right shoulder. My last visit to the doctor, he gave me a shot of cortizone. I asked what next. Basically he said, we'll see and if I need to come back and see him, don't worry, he won't be able to retire any time soon thanks to Obama

A politician thinks of the next election; a statesman of the next generation. A politician looks for the success of his party; a statesman for that of the country. The statesman wished to steer, while the politician was satisfied to drift.