I don't believe in aliens either. I mean, c'mon. the universe is huge, and there are amateurs with telescopes watching the skies 24/7. Even if the aliens agreed to visit earth via cloaked devices... what they never made a mistake for 100 years? It's not just that, if everyone on an alien planet has an interstellar aircraft, then teen aliens would do stupid stuff like try to visit Earth and break the rules. Don't tell me they've got an uber obedient society...

I find it absolutely incomprehensible how limited your imagination is, if that's the extend of it.
Really? adolescent/teenage aliens stealing interstellar aircrafts to go visit other systems?
When was the last time someone stole say, an F-16 ?

I get what you mean, that if they were so advanced, they ought to be able to have this technology available even to standard citizens, but just think about your example here, and come tell me with a straight face if you still think that isn't a pretty mediocre theory.

Also, (must resist urge to use the word literally) there are THOUSANDS of reports of U.F.O sightings every single year, and that's just the once that are reported, let's not forget those who don't actually report such a sighting to anyone who keeps track of said reports.
I am one of such people, believe it or not. (that didn't report their sighting)

Is there a chance that all they/I saw was a natural phenomenon or a standard human made aircraft? yes.
Does it mean that there can definitely not be Aliens capable of visiting other systems? no.

The US Airforce has admitted that several sightings and crashes were their own experimental craft. This is both likely and plausible. Another thing to consider: have you ever seen that documentary series "Life After People"? It is put together by scientists and was aired on the History channel. They go over how long it would take for almost every sign of modern life to vanish. It only takes about 400 years for almost everything modern to be virtually undetectable. We could very easily have had fairly advanced societies that were crushed by disaster. There are even unverified historical accounts from ancient times about precisely that happening. While it is almost guaranteed that alien life influenced the earth (they found very compelling signs of Earth type life on a comet after all), it was most likely not intelligent life.

That's a really bad exaggeration, there's a big difference between that "virtually" and actually.

Your tyical suburban home might be overgrown in a decade, totally collapse with a cracked foundation in a few more... but the material for that cement foundation isn't going anywhere unless there's something that eats it. And that's in a moist climate with heavy plant growth, in the desert everything is preserved, same for say things that end up in ice. And with materials not truly expected to last not say stonework which we still use, then there's things like certain plastics that mock degradation. To a knowledgable inquiry our civilization will likely be detectable forever.

Now the loophole is of course that we haven't exactly thoroughly examined every spec of dirt out there. That's still limited though because well... the place we aren't all over tend to be less then optimal for human habitation which combined with having to have not left more obvious traces puts a limit on how advanced one can get. Lots of development demands a certain resource base level and all that.

jeanius-wrote:
Giving up on something because of the Phoenix Lights is as silly as those stupid idiots that killed themselves during H.G. Wells' "War of the Worlds" radio broadcast.

I was going to put this on the History Trivia thread, but it didn't seem like history--
Fact is, there WERE no panic or suicides during the broadcast: There were a number of understandably concerned calls to police stations in the local NY/NJ area, that prompted them to alert NBC and obligate Welles to offer his disclaimer, but otherwise, the streets were as clear as usual.

Hmm perhaps you're right. Maybe I got it confused with the Battle of Los Angeles? I could of swore there was some UFO-related event that caused people to think they'd rather die then serve their new Grey overlords.

You're probably confusing it with the looney Heaven's Gate cult, who thought their grey overlords WERE coming, as part of the plan.

But there's so just so much misinformation about the WotW broadcast out there, best not to get ahead of our points too enthusiastically.

The US Airforce has admitted that several sightings and crashes were their own experimental craft. This is both likely and plausible. Another thing to consider: have you ever seen that documentary series "Life After People"? It is put together by scientists and was aired on the History channel. They go over how long it would take for almost every sign of modern life to vanish. It only takes about 400 years for almost everything modern to be virtually undetectable. We could very easily have had fairly advanced societies that were crushed by disaster. There are even unverified historical accounts from ancient times about precisely that happening. While it is almost guaranteed that alien life influenced the earth (they found very compelling signs of Earth type life on a comet after all), it was most likely not intelligent life.

That's a really bad exaggeration, there's a big difference between that "virtually" and actually.

Your tyical suburban home might be overgrown in a decade, totally collapse with a cracked foundation in a few more... but the material for that cement foundation isn't going anywhere unless there's something that eats it. And that's in a moist climate with heavy plant growth, in the desert everything is preserved, same for say things that end up in ice. And with materials not truly expected to last not say stonework which we still use, then there's things like certain plastics that mock degradation. To a knowledgable inquiry our civilization will likely be detectable forever.

Now the loophole is of course that we haven't exactly thoroughly examined every spec of dirt out there. That's still limited though because well... the place we aren't all over tend to be less then optimal for human habitation which combined with having to have not left more obvious traces puts a limit on how advanced one can get. Lots of development demands a certain resource base level and all that.

10,000 years ago the Sahara was a sub-tropical area entirely different than what it is today.

Our planet is much more dynamic than the general public is aware, and beyond that, many structures in the pre-modern area were heavily recycled / pillaged for materials for new structures by new inhabitants.

While modern society may produce materials that can be evidence for future cultures to find, it is much harder to say the same for peoples of the past.

I don't believe in aliens either. I mean, c'mon. the universe is huge, and there are amateurs with telescopes watching the skies 24/7. Even if the aliens agreed to visit earth via cloaked devices... what they never made a mistake for 100 years? It's not just that, if everyone on an alien planet has an interstellar aircraft, then teen aliens would do stupid stuff like try to visit Earth and break the rules. Don't tell me they've got an uber obedient society...

I find it absolutely incomprehensible how limited your imagination is, if that's the extend of it.
Really? adolescent/teenage aliens stealing interstellar aircrafts to go visit other systems?
When was the last time someone stole say, an F-16 ?

I get what you mean, that if they were so advanced, they ought to be able to have this technology available even to standard citizens, but just think about your example here, and come tell me with a straight face if you still think that isn't a pretty mediocre theory.

Also, (must resist urge to use the word literally) there are THOUSANDS of reports of U.F.O sightings every single year, and that's just the once that are reported, let's not forget those who don't actually report such a sighting to anyone who keeps track of said reports.
I am one of such people, believe it or not. (that didn't report their sighting)

Is there a chance that all they/I saw was a natural phenomenon or a standard human made aircraft? yes.
Does it mean that there can definitely not be Aliens capable of visiting other systems? no.

Bro, f16s have been around for less than 300 years -_- yet ufo sightings date back millennia. Also: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168197/Suicide-fighter-jet-Man-stole-plane-led-F-16-fighter-pilots-seven-hour-chase-WANTED-shot-down.html so who's imagination is limited?

And gz on seeing a ufo it was probably an experimental military aircraft or something supernatural. My friend from hs saw a ufo too, but he also always talks to spirits.

I didn't believe any of this crap until 1997 when I saw a giant black triangle ufo. This was before most of this was mainstream and didn't have anywhere to report such sightings. My religion went out the windows that day the second is we don't make stuff that big that can move that slow and be that quiet we make stuff that's really loud. This thing was big really big and really quiet and I also know for a fact that we are not alone and I consider it since then to be a fact and don't need a government spokesmen to tell me what I already know. I am also an ancient astronaut theory believer as a result and I take this show seriously as a part of what I saw. Anyone else that considered it nonsense I just ignore because of my own personal experience.

Dude we ALL saw the triangular slow spacecraft then I saw it with my mom and brother in the afternoon. It turned out to be the experimental stealth craft...

I don't believe in aliens either. I mean, c'mon. the universe is huge, and there are amateurs with telescopes watching the skies 24/7. Even if the aliens agreed to visit earth via cloaked devices... what they never made a mistake for 100 years? It's not just that, if everyone on an alien planet has an interstellar aircraft, then teen aliens would do stupid stuff like try to visit Earth and break the rules. Don't tell me they've got an uber obedient society...

I believe aliens are just the new meta for spirits. Way back when, spirits appeared in people's dreams, and also appeared physically, did this and htat blahblah. Well, now that religion is now on the down, and science is on the up, spirits have to find better, creative ways of messing with humans (age-old war). So, heeeeeeeey now they're aliens :D.

There's even proof of this lol. Most people who are experiencing abductions by X alien race -- their "abductions" are somehow stopped when they start employing spiritual defensive techniques. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!?! Well, obviously.

I think if aliens existed, we'd know. We're watching for the smallest radio wave from any planet -_-. I know our tech isn't that sophisticated, but if they ever ever at least once, used radio waves in their planet's whole existence, then we'd detect it someday when it reaches us. So far we've found nothing.

Tl;dr: aliens are extradimensional beings (spirits), and not from another planet.

Oh ya that makes sense. Instead of there being life in the vastness of our universe, its instead in another dimension. Because that's so much more plausible >.>

I don't believe in aliens either. I mean, c'mon. the universe is huge, and there are amateurs with telescopes watching the skies 24/7. Even if the aliens agreed to visit earth via cloaked devices... what they never made a mistake for 100 years? It's not just that, if everyone on an alien planet has an interstellar aircraft, then teen aliens would do stupid stuff like try to visit Earth and break the rules. Don't tell me they've got an uber obedient society...

I believe aliens are just the new meta for spirits. Way back when, spirits appeared in people's dreams, and also appeared physically, did this and htat blahblah. Well, now that religion is now on the down, and science is on the up, spirits have to find better, creative ways of messing with humans (age-old war). So, heeeeeeeey now they're aliens :D.

There's even proof of this lol. Most people who are experiencing abductions by X alien race -- their "abductions" are somehow stopped when they start employing spiritual defensive techniques. HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?!?! Well, obviously.

I think if aliens existed, we'd know. We're watching for the smallest radio wave from any planet -_-. I know our tech isn't that sophisticated, but if they ever ever at least once, used radio waves in their planet's whole existence, then we'd detect it someday when it reaches us. So far we've found nothing.

Tl;dr: aliens are extradimensional beings (spirits), and not from another planet.

Oh ya that makes sense. Instead of there being life in the vastness of our universe, its instead in another dimension. Because that's so much more plausible >.>

Yeah man. That's right up there with psychics existing, spirits existing, and religion in general. Totally plausible.

That's a really bad exaggeration, there's a big difference between that "virtually" and actually.

Your tyical suburban home might be overgrown in a decade, totally collapse with a cracked foundation in a few more... but the material for that cement foundation isn't going anywhere unless there's something that eats it. And that's in a moist climate with heavy plant growth, in the desert everything is preserved, same for say things that end up in ice. And with materials not truly expected to last not say stonework which we still use, then there's things like certain plastics that mock degradation. To a knowledgable inquiry our civilization will likely be detectable forever.

Now the loophole is of course that we haven't exactly thoroughly examined every spec of dirt out there. That's still limited though because well... the place we aren't all over tend to be less then optimal for human habitation which combined with having to have not left more obvious traces puts a limit on how advanced one can get. Lots of development demands a certain resource base level and all that.

We have had periods of severe acidity in the past, much of the planet has had fairly extensive upheaval as well. There is also the fact that vegetation and ice action will break down concrete that is not maintained. Deserts also have storms that generate the equivalent of sand blasting. I think you may be overstating the durability of these materials without human interference. As to plastic, it may not break down at the molecular level readily, but it does get reduced to tiny bits so small they're like sand or even smaller. The material does begin to break down in biological environments, which it subsequently contaminates. Granted, some survives, but the fact that we see some measure of breakdown within such a relatively short time suggests even plastic may be more finite than some maintain. The preservation of ice only really works if it stays frozen, if the material is repeatedly thawed and frozen that can be highly damaging.

As to our not finding things, we recently discovered that chimps in a few regions have been making stone tools for a very long time (actual spears supposedly, though I'd like to see more info before giving that full credence). They also used to believe that civilization (post hunter-gatherer) was less than 10k years old. We now believe it to be much older. Some sites that were thought at one time to be myth have been proven historical fact. I would also argue that it is entirely possible that materials science will not always evolve in the same manner. Some of the structures that exist on this planet cannot be made with any method we know. Particularly a couple in South America. Clearly, someone had a means to make it. I would not think that "aliens" are the most likely explanation. Ancient civilizations that were more advanced than we have believed to date seems more plausible to me.

wrote:
Bro, f16s have been around for less than 300 years -_- yet ufo sightings date back millennia. Also: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168197/Suicide-fighter-jet-Man-stole-plane-led-F-16-fighter-pilots-seven-hour-chase-WANTED-shot-down.html so who's imagination is limited?

And gz on seeing a ufo it was probably an experimental military aircraft or something supernatural. My friend from hs saw a ufo too, but he also always talks to spirits.

Most leaked ufo info tends toward ufos being extradimensional.

So you're pointing to one example out of all these people, and are you also seriously suggesting that right about anyone would be able to even get it off the ground to begin with?

I didn't make any comment on ufos having yet to be sighted until recent century, so I don't even know what point you're trying to make.
And what evidence are you talking about. Nice try on the condescending note, but you're basing your comments on things I never said and assumptions about things I claimed, so come again "bro"

wrote:
Bro, f16s have been around for less than 300 years -_- yet ufo sightings date back millennia. Also: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1168197/Suicide-fighter-jet-Man-stole-plane-led-F-16-fighter-pilots-seven-hour-chase-WANTED-shot-down.html so who's imagination is limited?

And gz on seeing a ufo it was probably an experimental military aircraft or something supernatural. My friend from hs saw a ufo too, but he also always talks to spirits.

Most leaked ufo info tends toward ufos being extradimensional.

So you're pointing to one example out of all these people, and are you also seriously suggesting that right about anyone would be able to even get it off the ground to begin with?

I didn't make any comment on ufos having yet to be sighted until recent century, so I don't even know what point you're trying to make.
And what evidence are you talking about. Nice try on the condescending note, but you're basing your comments on things I never said and assumptions about things I claimed, so come again "bro"

idk lol, you said "no one steals F16s, therefore your imagination is incomprehensibly limited" and then I show you one example, but you're still at it :D.

Let me connect the dots. so F16s haven't been around as long as UFOs, so that means UFO technology isn't as "new" as F16 technology in alien time point of views. Idk, it's like, uhh... ships. So we've had ships longer than F16s, so they're more accessible than F16s. Kinda refuting your point.

idk lol, you said "no one steals F16s, therefore your imagination is incomprehensibly limited" and then I show you one example, but you're still at it :D.

Let me connect the dots. so F16s haven't been around as long as UFOs, so that means UFO technology isn't as "new" as F16 technology in alien time point of views. Idk, it's like, uhh... ships. So we've had ships longer than F16s, so they're more accessible than F16s. Kinda refuting your point.

Bro.

First of all, I never spoke in absolutes, I merely suggested that your imagination must be incredibly limited if that's the extend of it, read it again carefully if that didn't seem clear enough to you. Secondly I never said no one has ever stolen an F-16 before, I simply implied that it's not a common event to put it mildly, on top of that, no one can just take one of those off the landing site without having any knowledge on how to fly one, the article of the guy you linked, was a trained pilot... Not an adolescent or a teenager.

As for the rest of your comment, I'm seriously starting to doubt your ability to comprehend simple English, so congrats on making an argument that has absolutely no footing in what I was referring to...

Also he stole a Cessna 172, a basic cruiser plane. Hardly fair to compare it to an f-16, but obviously I should be able to tell by now that you are just here to be stubborn and not actually have a proper debate.