While I haven't played nearly as long as you, I too love Enhancement more than every other spec in the game.

More on topic though, what I think might be good for us in pvp at least, is making Primal Strike an actually useful ability by severing it's shared cd with SS and make it usable after one of our SS's or LL's get dodged/parried. That way losing the damage from a missed strike won't be as punishing as it is now and PS will actually be something different than clutter in our spellbook. Buff/nerf it's damage accordingly and also make it unable to be dodged/parried just like overpower. In my opinion it doesn't need anything else, but right now losing damage from a dodged/parried LL or SS is huge and unnecessarily punishing.
Also, to be fair, this is not my idea but something I read once, maybe even back in Cata or before.

I dont get blizzard, enhancement seems so easy to balance better. the damage in general is fine, its to cooldown based but oke, it wil do. but the defensive CDs or complete lack thereoff is just nonsense. 30% damage reduction on shamrage is not noticeable ( i like the dispell glyph though) and the first tier talents dont really add mutch. 25% hp heal / weakest absorb shield in game / long CD short duration damage red, they are all just so mutch worse then what any other class gets.

making shaman rage 50 or 60% for enha (maybe ele?), make a more powerwull stone bullwark (100k+ absorb at least) totem baseline and give us a passive 20% damage reduction (like the LB shield glyph) would help a bunch. also i feel that the mealstrom 5 stacks heal is still not worth the global CD. it heals for 40-50k and it that lost global CD any warrior/dk/rogue wil do way more then that to you, it is not enough. i feel the glyph needs to be 200% increase healing done to make it feel like something usefull.

granted giving shaman ALL these changes might make them to strong, its hard to tell, but even some of these would go a long way.
and there REALLY needs to be a change soon, enha has been taken up the arse by blizz since TBC now. its never been on par with other melee, its always been a fight upstream that you wil lose against anyone who knows how to play.

i so mutch want to like my shaman, but blizzard makes them VERY hard to love when any other melee does as good and mostly better then me with less effort and skill.

I dont get blizzard, enhancement seems so easy to balance better. the damage in general is fine, its to cooldown based but oke, it wil do. but the defensive CDs or complete lack thereoff is just nonsense. 30% damage reduction on shamrage is not noticeable ( i like the dispell glyph though) and the first tier talents dont really add mutch. 25% hp heal / weakest absorb shield in game / long CD short duration damage red, they are all just so mutch worse then what any other class gets.

making shaman rage 50 or 60% for enha (maybe ele?), make a more powerwull stone bullwark (100k+ absorb at least) totem baseline and give us a passive 20% damage reduction (like the LB shield glyph) would help a bunch. also i feel that the mealstrom 5 stacks heal is still not worth the global CD. it heals for 40-50k and it that lost global CD any warrior/dk/rogue wil do way more then that to you, it is not enough. i feel the glyph needs to be 200% increase healing done to make it feel like something usefull.

granted giving shaman ALL these changes might make them to strong, its hard to tell, but even some of these would go a long way.
and there REALLY needs to be a change soon, enha has been taken up the arse by blizz since TBC now. its never been on par with other melee, its always been a fight upstream that you wil lose against anyone who knows how to play.

i so mutch want to like my shaman, but blizzard makes them VERY hard to love when any other melee does as good and mostly better then me with less effort and skill.

fuck it ill just go collect some resto gear :/

The problem with comparing defensive skills with other melees are that the just one more melee that don't have the option to be a tank, what will naturally give them somewhat more defensive skills, not that I would like to have a buff to our defenses, but we are not that bad if we put the tank thing in consideration, and you are forgeting feral wolves, they are a solid defense with their heals.

While I haven't played nearly as long as you, I too love Enhancement more than every other spec in the game.

More on topic though, what I think might be good for us in pvp at least, is making Primal Strike an actually useful ability by severing it's shared cd with SS and make it usable after one of our SS's or LL's get dodged/parried. That way losing the damage from a missed strike won't be as punishing as it is now and PS will actually be something different than clutter in our spellbook. Buff/nerf it's damage accordingly and also make it unable to be dodged/parried just like overpower. In my opinion it doesn't need anything else, but right now losing damage from a dodged/parried LL or SS is huge and unnecessarily punishing.
Also, to be fair, this is not my idea but something I read once, maybe even back in Cata or before.

Why not just reset the CD if it's dodged/parried.....put some limitations on it so you still gotta gear for hit/expertise but not as penalized by your SS/LL getting dodged/parried because you are right that it really hurts, especially for Enh since we are CD based.

Originally Posted by menulo

I dont get blizzard, enhancement seems so easy to balance better. the damage in general is fine, its to cooldown based but oke, it wil do. but the defensive CDs or complete lack thereoff is just nonsense. 30% damage reduction on shamrage is not noticeable ( i like the dispell glyph though) and the first tier talents dont really add mutch. 25% hp heal / weakest absorb shield in game / long CD short duration damage red, they are all just so mutch worse then what any other class gets.

making shaman rage 50 or 60% for enha (maybe ele?), make a more powerwull stone bullwark (100k+ absorb at least) totem baseline and give us a passive 20% damage reduction (like the LB shield glyph) would help a bunch. also i feel that the mealstrom 5 stacks heal is still not worth the global CD. it heals for 40-50k and it that lost global CD any warrior/dk/rogue wil do way more then that to you, it is not enough. i feel the glyph needs to be 200% increase healing done to make it feel like something usefull.

I feel like your suggestions are a lil OP, atleast the numbers since you basically double everything....but I think the stuff you want to see improved is on point. I would also like to see Stone Bulwark be a baseline ability and replace that talent with something more interesting like an immunity such as "Earthen Tomb" which works like iceblock with some different features to make it unique for Shaman. Otherwise they could bring back Stoneclaw as a minor, single application absorb shield on a 30 sec CD. If they leave SBT as is then it buffed somewhat would be nice. Sham Rage at 30% seems fair for a 1min CD honestly, but since Elem gets it too now I wouldn't mind seeing Enhance's version be 40% especially since melee take more damage.

I think one of the major problems for me with Enhance is the glyphs and how bloated they are with few real choices.....I would like to see the LS glyph be baseline for Enh and Elem, giving 10% damage reduction all the time. I also want to see the Imp Ghost Wolf glyph be baseline..... and lastly while not a huge priority it would be nice to have Healing Storm glyph be baseline as well, or atleast make it so any self heals using MW5 is boosted by 100% baseline and the glyph just improves the healing when healing your allies or something. Every Enh shaman is almost guaranteed to glyph for Healing Storm and LS (in PVP atleast)..... thats 2 glyph slots that are the same for all Enhance (and I feel Imp GW is too crucial for mobility in PVP so I will have to give up my current Sham Rage dispel glyph for LS).....it would be much more fun to be bale to pick some other unique glyph choices to customize to our playstyle so we can use stuff like the Feral hunt healing or HST glyph for defense, or for utility/cc we could glyph for hex or capacitor....and other glyphs could be added that we could switch around without feeling compelled to always glyph for stuff like Healing Storm, LS, and IMO Imp GW all of which are too crucial in PVP to really give up for anythng else....

There is no way they would increase the healing the MW glyph does. In PVE you can already output some obscene healing with that glyph (close to or matching other healers). So that has to be kept in mind with any change to the glyph.

I like protoman's idea of baking in the glyph for self heals only and making the glyph apply it to allies as well. Makes the glyph useful but not mandatory.

There is no way they would increase the healing the MW glyph does. In PVE you can already output some obscene healing with that glyph (close to or matching other healers). So that has to be kept in mind with any change to the glyph.

I like protoman's idea of baking in the glyph for self heals only and making the glyph apply it to allies as well. Makes the glyph useful but not mandatory.

And you would be suprised, how many times dragonslayers gets punished because of pvp heroes. Each coin has two sides of it. Until the game will have seperate pvp / pve spells / skills, it wont be better balanced than now. So there will be always fotm classes and bad classes. It just happens, that resto is strong, that it makes enha (and ele) terrible.

I still dont understand, why they dont buff us trough only "spec" based buffs, like enhance gains + 10% hp etc etc

What enhancement need is a reliable cleave and an aoe that feels rewarding.
Enhancement should get forked lightning instead of chain lightning, hitting something like 3 enemies with lightning in a cone area infront of the shaman for an equal amount of dmg. no cd but with a cast time equal to chain lightning which is affected by maelstrom procs and ancestral swiftness.
Change fire nova so it doesn't rely on either flame shock or lava lash. Give us a searing flames dot with no instant dmg that's the focus for fire nova which spreads the dot to 4 targets or refreshes the dot if no new targets are in range. The dot can be manually applied on many targets with a 1 sec cd.
This allows us to aoe packs with low health.

I'd also want to find a way to use primal strike as a main hand attack which deals extra damage when the target is below 20% health.

What enhancement need is a reliable cleave and an aoe that feels rewarding.
Enhancement should get forked lightning instead of chain lightning, hitting something like 3 enemies with lightning in a cone area infront of the shaman for an equal amount of dmg. no cd but with a cast time equal to chain lightning which is affected by maelstrom procs and ancestral swiftness.

So a reliable cleave in your understanding is something tied to an unpredictable ppm? Good to have that one cleared up. And what's the point really? You replace one aoe lightning spell for another, which works exactly the same except that it requires better positioning because it is in a cone instead of chained.

I could imagine Forked Lightning OR Chain Lightning as baseline instant (for enh only) spells without cooldown, making them spammable.
To avoid mindless aoe, the cleave spell would cost lots of mana, making recource more interesting for enh, and keeping melee strikes on a high priority because of mana reg.
If a certain amount of enemies would be hit, it could also refund half of the mana or so (to encourage good positioning).

On single target it should be lowest prio, and only be used as a filler.

Last edited by Omanley; 2013-04-25 at 05:10 PM.

Originally Posted by Angoth

I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

I think that if Fire Nova would spread Flame Shocks instead of Lava Lash, our problems with AoE/Cleave would be solved (after some number tinkering of course)

another way to go about it. sadly, blizz prefers the complicated way whenever shamans are concerned.
-a stun cant just be a stun, it has to have a charging time, being destroyable, being immobile
-our aoe cant just be spammable like most others, or like a death knights', it has to be tied to a 10sec cd melee strike AND a 6 sec shock, AND having a cooldown by itself...
-our cc cant just be like a melee's cc (instant with cd), a caster's cc (cast time but no cd) or being a silence (instant, not breaking on damage), no, it has to be some weird hybrid

And generaly, there's sucky designed totems. No ones' going for SBT or HTT in pvp, I am not surprised.

Originally Posted by Angoth

I'm sorry that Blizzard won't just gift wrap awesome in a cup and let you drink your fill.

I think that if Fire Nova would spread Flame Shocks instead of Lava Lash, our problems with AoE/Cleave would be solved (after some number tinkering of course)

This is the best and most simplest solution, much more in line with other melee's AoE's. Give FN a 10-15 yd range and targetable spell, does not need FLS to use but can spread FLS, only spreads 2 FLS to keep rampup controlled. Its SO DAMN SIMPLE, I don't know why Blizz has not considered this when they have done similar fixes for other classes AoE's....for example:

--Warr/ Blood and Thunder - Thunderclap auto applies Rend dot, when before you had to apply rend first and then spread it with Tclap (just like we do now with apply FLS first then spread with FN)......they shortened and simplified the process which is exactly what we need.

--DK/ Howling Blast - Same targetable ranged aoe, auto applies frost fever disease (like this new version of FN would with FLS)

Originally Posted by Omanley

another way to go about it. sadly, blizz prefers the complicated way whenever shamans are concerned.
-a stun cant just be a stun, it has to have a charging time, being destroyable, being immobile
-our aoe cant just be spammable like most others, or like a death knights', it has to be tied to a 10sec cd melee strike AND a 6 sec shock, AND having a cooldown by itself...
-our cc cant just be like a melee's cc (instant with cd), a caster's cc (cast time but no cd) or being a silence (instant, not breaking on damage), no, it has to be some weird hybrid

And generaly, there's sucky designed totems. No ones' going for SBT or HTT in pvp, I am not surprised.

Sad but true.....we got some awkward, gimmicky mechanics like our FN being reliant on single target abilities w/ long CD's, or our main burst ability LL being reliant on a totem which sucks for mobile PVP......and as you mentioned stuff like CPT being the weakest, most vulnerable AoE stun while almost all others are instant.

Originally Posted by Yaskaleh

I'd also want to find a way to use primal strike as a main hand attack which deals extra damage when the target is below 20% health.

Finding more uses for Primal Strike would be cool, mebbe would be interesting if Primal Strike could serve as a "filler" attack to maintain some DPS while saving something like LL for timed burst.....prob more complicated then just that though. It could also apply SF stacks similar to Sin Strike and Combo Points for Rogue, Searing Totem will still do it but Prim Strike could give us a more mobile and instant way to apply SF, 2 SF stacks at a time if it keeps a CD for example.

For an execute, I would rather see LL get it's CD reset when attacking a target <20-30%HP.....give it a 20-30sec ICD and make the reset LL also buffed by 100% damage (=5 Sear Flm.).......this way you basically get 2x LL fully buffed on an enemy in execute range so you can put out some real pressure.

I was thinking about the whole thing with Lava Lash and our AoE, the conclusion I made, is that the purpose it's to make so that we somehow have to stay at melee range. looking at other melees AoE, none of them have ranged AoE (Could be wrong just glanced over spells). But to me it could be a nice thing if we had ranged AoE as a differentiation of other melees.

The way I would rework our AoE is:

Remove the Flame Shock spread mechanic;
First cast of Fire Nova would emit a nova from [The Player | A Fire Totem | Flame Shock affected target](only one option)
Every enemy hit by Fire Nova would emit a new Fire Nova
After emitting a Fire Nova, the target gets an undispellable debuff called Dormant Embers, max of one stack, 30 seconds, each application renew the duration
If the target has Dormant Embers, they will not emit a new Fire Nova when hit by others Fire Novas
When Fire Nova is cast again, each enemy afflicted by Dormant Embers will emit a Fire Nova, consuming the debuff

Give Enh a spell like Combat Rogues Blade Flurry. What it would do is on melee hit you cast a FN that hurts the targets for X amount of damage, the FN comes off of the Shaman. The drawback to this would be that our spells cost double mana (maybe triple) so we wouldn't use it on single target.

Give Enh a spell like Combat Rogues Blade Flurry. What it would do is on melee hit you cast a FN that hurts the targets for X amount of damage, the FN comes off of the Shaman. The drawback to this would be that our spells cost double mana (maybe triple) so we wouldn't use it on single target.

I didn't do the math, but I think that even with triple mana cost we would still be able to use it for single target without going OOM. But is a good idea to improve our cleave, but I would not use Fire Nova, but a mix of ice and wind, as we lack some favor of the two in our offensive arsenal.

That one small change fixes everything about our AE. It removes the reliance on LL and the shock CD, dramatically speeds up ramp up time, we no longer have to worry about a FlS target dying too quickly, nor do we worry about FlS being spread at a low duration. Plus, it makes magma totem worth dropping.

- Enhancement CL is changed to be instant cast and deal increased damage after the first jump.

This gives us a consistent and on demand cleave. The damage against a single target could be tuned so that its less DPCT than a hard casted LB.