Damn! I dont get this teams' love affair with Bargnani!? The man is struggling big time! If BC doesnt wanna trade him, make Casey bench the guy for f@cks sake! 7 years of "hoping" is too damn long. Make him the 6th - 7th man, if he's hot, ride him if not, go back to the bench. Theres other players that DESERVE the playing time like Ed. The whole organization knows what the problem, why are they too damn proud to admit it.

Consider that the Bargnani-Valanciunas frontcourt tandem has been shredded for 109.5 points per 100 possessions, according to NBA.com's advanced stats tool, while playing more than a third of the Raptors' minutes this season.

Consider further that the Davis-Johnson tandem that backs them up has allowed just 98.1 as a unit, which would lead the league in defensive efficiency. As you might expect, the Bargnani-Johnson duo (105.1) falls right in the middle. (Davis-Valanciunas does not, at 109.0, but in just 71 minutes.)

This is the quote from the article that got me the most upset. They always say they'll go with the unit that will give them the best chance to win. Considering that management and the coaches know that the Bargnani-Valanciunas pairing is detrimental to the team and still haven't shaken things up really pisses me off. I love Jonas, but get him the hell away from Bargnani.

Consider further that the Davis-Johnson tandem that backs them up has allowed just 98.1 as a unit, which would lead the league in defensive efficiency.

Michel G wrote:

This is the quote from the article that got me the most upset. They always say they'll go with the unit that will give them the best chance to win. Considering that management and the coaches know that the Bargnani-Valanciunas pairing is detrimental to the team and still haven't shaken things up really pisses me off. I love Jonas, but get him the hell away from Bargnani.

That stat is rediculous. I know they're playing against second units but that kind of difference between the starters and the second unit is mind numbing. Does anyone know what that line ups offensive rating is?

Last edited by hateslosing; Mon Dec 10th, 2012 at 05:51 PM.

"When Life gives you lemons, you clone those Lemons to make super lemons!"
-Scudworth

Consider that the Bargnani-Valanciunas frontcourt tandem has been shredded for 109.5 points per 100 possessions, according to NBA.com's advanced stats tool, while playing more than a third of the Raptors' minutes this season.

The above also points out that playing Val will not make us contend for the playoffs. Those screaming for increased minutes to Val, should not be crying when we get blown out.

excellent article, every little bit helps (especially an espn article) in eliminating the scum that is andrea bargnani. And then I can go back to watching this team.

Andrea Bargnani is not 'scum'. He's a decent player on a poor team, who as many people have mentioned is being treated as a cornerstone when he'll never reach that level. To blame him for that is hugely misguided, and to call him 'scum' is offensive. I know Toronto fans are famously fickle, but Jesus wept, the players are hardly to blame for woeful mismanagement. He may be a symbol of everything that's gone wrong with the Colangelo era, but I'll still cheer Bargnani on in every game he plays.

Andrea Bargnani is not 'scum'. He's a decent player on a poor team, who as many people have mentioned is being treated as a cornerstone when he'll never reach that level. To blame him for that is hugely misguided, and to call him 'scum' is offensive. I know Toronto fans are famously fickle, but Jesus wept, the players are hardly to blame for woeful mismanagement. He may be a symbol of everything that's gone wrong with the Colangelo era, but I'll still cheer Bargnani on in every game he plays.

good for you. He is scum in the sense that he isn't half the player he was last year. He is arguably the worst player on a team you claim is woeful, so how can he be decent?

good for you. He is scum in the sense that he isn't half the player he was last year. He is arguably the worst player on a team you claim is woeful, so how can he be decent?

Not being the man you were last year doesn't make you scum, otherwise we'd all fall into that bracket. Sex criminals, fraudsters, they might be rightfully labelled 'scum'. Under-performing athletes, no. He's nowhere near the worst player on the team, he just falls massively short of everyone's expectations. He is what he is, a poor defender and decent scorer who's having a bad season, and for him to get thrown under the bus by the fans night after night and called 'scum' is frankly wrong. Again, as many people here have said, if Bargnani is your number one option then your team is doomed. To blame him for that is to overlook the fundamental causes.

He's a decent player on a poor team, who as many people have mentioned is being treated as a cornerstone when he'll never reach that level. To blame him for that is hugely misguided, and to call him 'scum' is offensive. The players are hardly to blame for woeful mismanagement. He may be a symbol of everything that's gone wrong with the Colangelo era, but I'll still cheer Bargnani on in every game he plays.

jamiemaca wrote:

He just falls massively short of everyone's expectations. He is what he is, a poor defender and decent scorer who's having a bad season, and for him to get thrown under the bus by the fans night after night and called 'scum' is frankly wrong. Again, as many people here have said, if Bargnani is your number one option then your team is doomed. To blame him for that is to overlook the fundamental causes.

Two great posts. Welcome to the board!

Last edited by Joey; Mon Dec 10th, 2012 at 07:41 PM.

"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

Not being the man you were last year doesn't make you scum, otherwise we'd all fall into that bracket. Sex criminals, fraudsters, they might be rightfully labelled 'scum'. Under-performing athletes, no. He's nowhere near the worst player on the team, he just falls massively short of everyone's expectations. He is what he is, a poor defender and decent scorer who's having a bad season, and for him to get thrown under the bus by the fans night after night and called 'scum' is frankly wrong. Again, as many people here have said, if Bargnani is your number one option then your team is doomed. To blame him for that is to overlook the fundamental causes.

you obviously took it too literally, that's your problem. While he obviously isn't in the same category as a rapist, it is dissapointing to say the least, that someone who is supposed to be in the prime of his career regressed so badly.

Imo, it is sad that you can cheer for someone (as you stated in your first post) who looks like he lacks the motivation when the cards were stacked in his favor to be good. (basically a loser's mentality)

Andrea Bargnani is not 'scum'. He's a decent player on a poor team, who as many people have mentioned is being treated as a cornerstone when he'll never reach that level. To blame him for that is hugely misguided, and to call him 'scum' is offensive. I know Toronto fans are famously fickle, but Jesus wept, the players are hardly to blame for woeful mismanagement. He may be a symbol of everything that's gone wrong with the Colangelo era, but I'll still cheer Bargnani on in every game he plays.

Although I agree that perhaps Bargs needs a change of scenery, he is not the only problem with how our team is performing.

Lowry is not, so far at least, proving to be the "saviour" everyone thought he was (Jose should be starting...at least for now IMHO), Fields has not contributed (no real surprise there) and Jonas is going to need time (although he looks to be a special player).

On the other hand, I have been impressed with DD's work and attitude this year and Ed Davis has been terrific (he definitely deserves more burn, maybe not starting...but more PT).

Alan Anderson has been solid as has Amir. The rest of the team, especially AB, have been disappointing.

So long story short, should Bargs go? Probably, but there are more players than him needing a reality check.

you obviously took it too literally, that's your problem. While he obviously isn't in the same category as a rapist, it is dissapointing to say the least, that someone who is supposed to be in the prime of his career regressed so badly.

Imo, it is sad that you can cheer for someone (as you stated in your first post) who looks like he lacks the motivation when the cards were stacked in his favor to be good. (basically a loser's mentality)

Its sad that you post anything. Ever. He is cheering for the fucking team you dumbfounded dipshit. A loser could more closely be defined as someone who is a fairweather fan who piles on to someone and a team and one player. "thats your problem.". Fucking troll. Maybe you could start looking at the macro and not the micro.

Its sad that you post anything. Ever. He is cheering for the fucking team you dumbfounded dipshit. A loser could more closely be defined as someone who is a fairweather fan who piles on to someone and a team and one player. "thats your problem.". Fucking troll. Maybe you could start looking at the macro and not the micro.

While I don't condone name-calling of any kind, or the vulgar language ... this is awesome.

"That was Nasty right? Cocked that Joint back and banged on 'em." -James Johnson

Damn! I dont get this teams' love affair with Bargnani!? The man is struggling big time! If BC doesnt wanna trade him, make Casey bench the guy for f@cks sake! 7 years of "hoping" is too damn long. Make him the 6th - 7th man, if he's hot, ride him if not, go back to the bench. Theres other players that DESERVE the playing time like Ed. The whole organization knows what the problem, why are they too damn proud to admit it.

Because they believe he is their golden boy. He should be benched.....that's on DC.

Although I agree that perhaps Bargs needs a change of scenery, he is not the only problem with how our team is performing.

Lowry is not, so far at least, proving to be the "saviour" everyone thought he was (Jose should be starting...at least for now IMHO), Fields has not contributed (no real surprise there) and Jonas is going to need time (although he looks to be a special player).

On the other hand, I have been impressed with DD's work and attitude this year and Ed Davis has been terrific (he definitely deserves more burn, maybe not starting...but more PT).

Alan Anderson has been solid as has Amir. The rest of the team, especially AB, have been disappointing.

So long story short, should Bargs go? Probably, but there are more players than him needing a reality check.

Jose should not be starting. He cannot defend period. He needs to go. It will not surprise me if he is not in the nba next year.