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It depends on what they are used for and symbolize. Gigantic horrible failures do not have to be ridiculous. Tripping while not paying attention, leaving a foot out of shadows, and breaking a bow string all happen - not was rare as we would suppose... That seems to be only fair considering a success may be able to go through armor, or whatever - depends on the system and use. Many times critical success is not used mechanically, but for story purposes. It can end a combat - bypassing mechanics. I also use it to just symbolize a character finding synchronicity - a crit stealth maybe means no more checks - they are just "in the zone"... but it always seems like if this sort of thing is used, a fumble is just as likely - as in no matter what you do, it simply will not work at full effect...

Incarna; Role-Playing Game Systemwww.incarna.net
Running: 3+ campaigns set in single custom milieu world.

It depends on what they are used for and symbolize. Gigantic horrible failures do not have to be ridiculous. Tripping while not paying attention, leaving a foot out of shadows, and breaking a bow string all happen - not was rare as we would suppose... That seems to be only fair considering a success may be able to go through armor, or whatever - depends on the system and use. Many times critical success is not used mechanically, but for story purposes. It can end a combat - bypassing mechanics. I also use it to just symbolize a character finding synchronicity - a crit stealth maybe means no more checks - they are just "in the zone"... but it always seems like if this sort of thing is used, a fumble is just as likely - as in no matter what you do, it simply will not work at full effect...

I agree. I think everyone has embarrassed themselves at least once by screwing something up outrageously badly. Think about the things you do in day to day life, and extend that. Making breakfast? Ever drop an egg on the kitchen floor? I have. Playing hockey? You may pass the puck right to an opposing player for an easy goal. (OK, that's probably not a day to day activity for most people). Even pros do stuff like this sometimes. Extend that type of thing to your game. Lots of fumble charts have stuff that makes no sense, just ignore stuff like that. Dropping your weapon is certainly possible in a fight. Friendly fire isn't friendly. You trip. This kind of thing is realistic. Chopping your own head off, not so much. Sanity check the results and adjust accordingly, and it's fine.

By the way, one of the reasons I dislike d20 is that critical successes and failures are too common for my taste. I like it when there's more of a bell curve or a more granular die result (like percentiles) though.

That's what I like about Spycraft's critical success/failure system. If you're good at stuff, your Threat range where you may critically succeed can widen and your Error range for critical failures can disappear entirely. If you're bad with something the reverse can happen. But then either way you have to spend action dice to confirm your criticals or your enemies critical failures. On the GM side of the house, not all NPCs are capable of critting, it's a trait they must possess that while most henchmen and masterminds have it, it's rare for minions. It's all in all a way better system than normal d20, or imo, most any other game I've seen.

Fighter: "I can kill a guy in one turn."
Cleric: "I can kill a guy in half a turn."
Wizard: "I can kill a guy before my turn."
Bard: "I can get three idiots to kill guys for me."

yea but I think every single character should be capable of a crit hit. Anything can happen at anytime in the real world. A bumbling, stumbling fool who's 95lbs soaking wet could knock out a Kung-Fu grandmaster. Any character(including NPC minions) can conceivably accomplish anything at any time. I agree with maybe 5% being a little to much. Rolling that 1 or 20 should just simply mean rolling again to determine the severity of the success or failure. Taking the option out of the game entirely though is like putting a helmet on your child while they make a sandwich just to make sure they don't hurt themselves. It just doesn't make any sense.

I agree, Panthro. I loved that in RuneQuest a lowly trollkin could potentially seriously mess up your Rune Lord with a lucky enough shot due to the critical mechanics. Yeah, the trollkin needs to roll like an 01 or an 02 on d100 and you'd have to miss your defense roll. Unlikely, but the fact remained that it could happen, and every opponent needed to be taken seriously.

yea but I think every single character should be capable of a crit hit. Anything can happen at anytime in the real world. A bumbling, stumbling fool who's 95lbs soaking wet could knock out a Kung-Fu grandmaster. Any character(including NPC minions) can conceivably accomplish anything at any time. I agree with maybe 5% being a little to much. Rolling that 1 or 20 should just simply mean rolling again to determine the severity of the success or failure. Taking the option out of the game entirely though is like putting a helmet on your child while they make a sandwich just to make sure they don't hurt themselves. It just doesn't make any sense.

A lot of Kung Fu masters are 95 lbs soak and wet

"If riding in an airplane is flying, then riding in a boat is swimming. If you want to experience the element, then get out of the vehicle...SKYDIVE!"