Offseason Kickoff Thread

I don't know where you've been but most of this city turned on Iguodala two-three seasons ago. There were few of us who really appreciated what Iguodala did on the court. But even saying that, I must say it's time for him to be traded. Not because he doesn't help this team win games, but simply because they aren't winning enough games with him as the leader and face of the franchise. The Sixers haven't finished over .500 or gotten out of the first round with Iguodala and he takes all of the blame from fans.

For better or worse, its time for the face of the franchise to change.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. Through no fault of his own, he was paid like a franchise player and team leader and hasn't lead us to even a winning record or further than a first round matchup. His bloated contract is preventing us from adding to the team so it really is time for him to go. If they don't move him, it will be just another case in what is becoming a long line of holding onto guys for too long ala Iverson and Andre Miller.

I'm not even bringing his contract into the equation. It seems like there are teams that are willing to take on his money to add his talent.

It's almost like "The Mcnabb Effect". We've seen Iguodala (Mcnabb) at his best and he's just not good enough to take the team to the next level. Seems as if we've reached his ceiling and it's time to gamble on the future.

"and he's just not good enough to take the team to the next level. Seems as if we've reached his ceiling and it's time to gamble on the future."

Spot on, which is when his contract has to come into the equation. You can't do nearly anything of significance until you clear some money and he's about the only piece that will fetch anything close to value. Either value, or cap space opened up and/or picks that can springboard you out of this mediocrity hole.

well, I think it's fair to put the franchise crippling contract burden on Elton instead of Andre. I think in some instances (all league defender, playmaking, rebounding) you could argue that Iggy is close to earning his money. But Elton is not even close, and that contract isn't even moveable. EB was brought here to make them a top 4 team in the east, they've gone backwards.

That's true in hindsight, but remember, he was brought in here and Cheeks couldn't incorporate him and he was canned, and then DiLeo looked like he was going to but didn't on account of the injury, and fast forward to now - this is EB first season as a starter for the whole season where he was incorporated into the gameplan.

At the time, the Sixers had a glaring hole at PF and they tried to do the right thing to fill it. What would've happened last season had the Sixers hired Collins instead of Jordan?

Query: how many games did Iguolada win for the team by not letting the opposing team's best player go nuts? To put it another way, how many games did Carmelo Anthony win for the Nuggets and Knicks with his scoring ability?

Me personally, I always rank defense above offense. If Iguodala can slow/shut down the other teams best player and chip in 15 points and a couple rebounds, I'll take it at his contract.

Brian, I think we stayed in this series because of the defensive end of the floor, and Iggy is the biggest part of that. Before any "trade Iggy" talk begins, I want to see how Miami does through the playoffs. What if they run through them and win the title? In an odd way it would help make up D.Collin's mind.

This team has to win with defense and E.Turner needs the ball in his hands, I think these 2 things are a must. Let Evan take Lou's spot, move Lou,Hawes and Spieghts for the best possible returns, draft smart, and find a R.Evans type energy guy from the undrafted heap [ J.Harrelson,G.McGhee,R.Jackson, M.Macvan] are 4 candidates. And improve defensively.

I love Iggy's game. I don't really mind the contract, there are many worse contracts than players better than Iggy.

He was awesome in the second half last night. It felt like he was making everything in the third and fourth, and his couple of breakaway dunks were vintage Iggy, the second one was nasty even I was taken aback.

And yes he did miss that last shot but it is such that he is in a lose-lose situation. If he took a 3 people would say he shoulda gone for a quick two, etc. Jrue and Lou took tougher shots in the previous game. Well they made them, but even if they didn't they wouldn't get the criticism Iggy got. He was the hot hand in the second half and that shot was going in for him.

If this was his last game at Philly it would be ironic that his last play was the one where he tried to make the heroic play and missed. But he had a heck of a game (in the second half) and it would be a good way to bow out of here with his head held high. On the court he has been top class. No he wasn't a scorer but I blame the front office for the fact that that role was thrust onto him.

I am most concerned about the management taking a risk (like OKC did with the Perkins trade) that will try to bring the team to the next level and be a contender, instead of a move that will make this is 45-win team, which is what I fear they will try to do.

Iggy I guess is our best trade bait, I'd hate to see him go for anything other than a deal which brings the team close to contention. Other than Jrue, Turner, Meeks (small contract), maybe Thad (at the right price) all the other players should be considered possible trade pieces. I like Brand's effort, if there is no team that will take him that's not a terrible scenario. He's certainly shown he has lots of game left.

I am sure this is it for him. Sometimes it makes me ashamed to be a fan of this team because of the way he is taken for granted and not respected by the general fan base.

With that said, if he is traded, it won't be because of his shortcomings, but because of his talent. He is really the only piece we have that can possibly net us a positive in a trade. Lou, Thad, Evan, and Jrue as well, but their contracts are smaller and it would take a package and/or some serious maneuvering to make something special out of those guys, and if Jrue was traded, well I'd shit.

I also think Evan makes him somewhat expendable. He played big in this series. I know it is a small sample size, but he's going to need PT. He played great defense, he slashes, he rebounds, and he can distribute. I'm really curious to see what he becomes if he gets 30+ min next year. Even best case scenario I'd think you'd see a minor drop in production replacing AI9's minutes with Evan, but not enough to where you wouldn't swing the bat if an above average big was offered for Iguodala.

I think Jodie showed us what he really is in this series. An above average shooter with a quick trigger, with little else, that is best served off the bench. As much as this team needs a big, we need to find a wing with fair size, that plays good defense, and can knock down a shot consistently. A Shane Battier type.

I know that is asking for a lot in one off season when this team has somewhat minimal trade chips. I don't expect either one, let alone both, but if I were management, that is the direction I would head.

Again great season. It's amazing what not having Eddie Jordan coaching the team can do for an organization.

Writing is on the wall. He was almost let go last year after the slow start. There's no guarantee we play any better this year with him. He's one of our very few tradeable assets. If we could get rid of his contract along with Elton Brand's massively bad deal, we'd have a chance to stockpile draft picks and let the young guys grow. That's how real teams are made.

Currently, the sixers were made half ass with no real vision. We need vision, and I would like Doug Collins and Rod Thorn to begin to develop that new vision. (it won't happen though).

Brian, one of the unfortunate aspects of the current "All Information" age, where every game is seen (League Pass didn't exist before 2004 or so?), every play and player is broken down by "expert" analysis, and every story is commented on (philly.com isn't more than 10 years old, and the comment feature there isn't more than 4) is that everybody has a platform to say something, qualified or not. So, while we get to hear a lot more informed and intelligent commentary (including much of what gets posted on this blog), we also get exposed to much more ignorance and idiocy.

While I'm as much a fan of the Philly teams as ever, the past few years have soured me on the "average Philly fan." The way they have turned on Iguodala now is the way they turned on McNabb and the way they will one day turn on Ryan Howard. And five years from now, if Jrue hasn't delivered a championship and is making money on his first big contract, they will one day turn on Jrue. No more "thanks for pouring out your heart and soul out for us for the last X years and thanks for all the good memories." Instead, critical (and often vicious) cries of "get out of town." The takeaway for me is that a lot of people out there are miserable and feel compelled to share their misery.

I find myself constantly trying to filter out all the noise (including some of the Philly media, unfortunately) and gravitating toward the "true" fans who want to see the team succeed regardless. That's one of the reasons I spend most of my blog time here: the regulars have their likes and dislikes, but almost all want to see the team do well (and will embrace even those they don't like if the latter happens). Strange time we will in, though ...

Unwarranted criticism of sports stars is nothing new. Constant exposure to vicious negativity because every idiot has a platform is unique to this age. Back in the 80's, the Internet didn't exist, sports talk shows were in their infancy, and sports analysis shows were generally civilized (i.e., no Skip Bayless-types). There were also fewer sports fans in general (I'm always shocked to read NBA attendance figures in the 60's, usually in the 5,000's), and NBA fans who wanted to express an opinion had to write -- probably handwrite -- letters to magazines like Basketball Digest. You can be sure the people who took the time to do that were more intelligent on average than the myriad idiots who post on the Internet.

Jaworski is a good illustration of the difference between then and now. The single biggest Eagles win in my life was when they beat the Cowboys in the NFC Championship following the 1980 season. Few people remember that he threw 3 INT's (with 0 TD's) in that game. I was in 7th grade then and didn't even realize he did that badly after I watched the game. If that game happened today, you'd have a segment of Eagles fan viciously criticizing him as not clutch and a segment of analysts pointing out his low playoff QB rating, and the volume would be increased after his bad Super Bowl (another 3 INT's, 1 TD). Back then? I'm pretty sure most Eagles fans were happy with Jaworski that season.

We can agree that internet access didn't really became main stream until the early to mid 90s? And until the launch of the graphical browsers (netscape and the like) it really was just folks on email and bbd's? I mean sure i ran auctions via usenet and email so i could make money to move to santa barbara, but it wasn't like ebay and stuff were out there :)

I remember it was a big deal my senior year (1993) and wisconsin gave us all free email accounts (and dial in access)

I blame the franchise more than anything. They tried to make him the successor to AI. That run was definitely the greatest era of Sixers bball in my lifetime, as I'm sure it was for many of the folks that head down to the WFC on a nightly basis.

They tried to thrust him into a role he was never suited for, and he tried to embrace it to the best of his ability.

This is a stars league, these players are just as much celebrities as they are athletes. He's not a face of the franchise type player, he's cold and stoic. Iverson was a hip hop icon,and was about as expressive as they come on the basketball court. In essence, they asked Iggy to replace a legend. It was bound to fail.

Compounded by the fact that his game isn't "sexy", and the inability to really win anything, and you have a fan base fed up with AI9.

Yes. I totally agree. I wonder: do other cities do this to their best players? (I've only ever lived in Philly.) I've read comments from free agents in a couple of sports about how this makes it hard to want to come and play here.

For the record, I like Iguodala's game a lot, I don't mind his contract (he's not even the biggest contract on our team, and certainly not in the top 30 players in the League salary-wise), and I think he's responsible for a lot of the good of this season. I'd only move him if we get something stupendous back. (Spencer Hawes, on the other hand, ought to be packed into a high powered circus cannon and shot into outer space.)

Thinking about the offseason has already made me late for work this morning, I'm sure it won't be the last time. This blog has really helped me move into the pro-Igoudala camp but as one of the commenters mentioned, the writing is on the wall. I don't know how this team goes forward without moving him. His value will never be higher than now, so it's simply a matter of what is the best deal we can make. The scary part is that I'm not sure exactly how you replace him. Do you call the Clippers and try to get Aminu & Kaman, hoping Aminu becomes Andre 2.0 (overall game), or do you strictly look to add a young big through a trade and try signing a FA small forward like Prince, Battier, or Kirilenko? I believe that ET can make up for Igoudala's passing and court vision, but not sure Turner can play the 3 on a permanent basis. If we could find a SF who can shoot the 3 and play above average D, I think the loss of Igoudala would be minimized.

My ideal move would be the Stackhouse trade to the Pistons where the Sixers added a major role player like McKie and a stud shotblocker in Ratliff. This kid Larry Sanders from Milwaukee really intrigues me. Too bad their swing guys are such stiffs and chemistry killers. I would also love to pry Gortat away from Phoenix somehow.

It could certainly be worse. I think outside of maybe Thad and whatever rookies we add this summer, you simply can't take on any contracts that go past the 2012-2013 season. The goal should be (and hopefully the new CBA will assist in this) putting a viable team together short of the "superstar" and adding that player with your available cap space in the summer of 2013.

"The playoffs gave Collins five more games to evaluate his players, to see what they had, to see how they responded to the pressure and stress of postseason basketball. What he found was that Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lou Williams, and Thaddeus Young thrived in that environment. Jodie Meeks did not back away from it."

The San Antonio Spurs have Stars, the Oralndo Magic has Dwight Howard. These games when there are 'three' a night are banished to NBA TV. (Tonight for instance). It has nothing to do with stars, it has to do with ratings, and the spurs and magic draw crappy ratings unless they playing a team people like to watch.

Portland Dallas is a bigger ratings draw than the magic atlanta, and that's kind of sad.

That I didn't know, but the whole 'hatred thing' (and it's not uniquely Philadelphia, read any ESPN or hoopsworld chat ;) ) is just silly. These companies want to MAKE MONEY first and foremost. (Did you know ESPN recently had to enact a new policy for what employees could endorse because of conflict of interest? It doesn't apply to former player analysts though so it's inherently weak). If the sixers pulled big ratings, or articles on the sixers got 3 times the normal traffic on ESPN.com (like the heat index does) - ESPN would love the sixers. They love the phillies, they love talking about Mike Vick. The network doesn't care what team they are talking about as long as it shows up in ratings which is how networks make most of their money.

I've been so busy with my new 'second' job - that I saw very little of the playoffs (and haven't gotten much sleep recently), I just now that how the sixers played these 5 games wouldn't change my perception of the future of the roster :)

ESPN's 'hate' for any team is in the mind of the fans and purely based on financial and fan interest. The fans 'hate' the heat index but it's the most popular NBA section on ESPN.com

Do TNT and ESPN 'hate' San Antonio and Memphis (or Tonight Orlando and Atlanta?) and that's why the games are on NBA TV? Of course they don't, they don't care about the teams people, they care about MONEY, and the sixers are the fourth most popular team (at best) in a major US market (still want those Monday night in philly game ratings somehow) and ESPN I'm sure has people who analyze ratings and web traffic and know what the visitors/customers care about. They have THREE chats a week devoted to the Dallas Mavericks. Not because they love the Dallas mavericks but because The Dallas mavericks chats pull in a lot of people.

ESPN.com has special web sections devoted to the biggest cities in America - save one.

That's not because they hate Philadelphia, honestly, they don't. THEY LOVE MONEY and Philadelphia for some reason doesn't make ESPN as much money as Dallas. Did ESPN hate the Dodgers when they were owned by Fox or did they ignore the Dodgers cause they sucked.

The sixers are not relevant outside of Philadelphia, and even in Philadelphia their relevancy is minor compared to, say, the flyers or the eagles or the phillies (or possibly Villanova, though not philly, basketball) This provincial and insane thought that ESPN hates 'your team' because they don't cover them as much as you (the fanatic) wants them to has to stop. ESPN is a NATIONAL network, they don't cater to one part of the country they have to appeal to the entire country and as such focus on those with the highest national appeal (and hatred is appeal - because people will watch the yankees red sox just cause they hate them), and the sixers have little to no national appeal folks. Accept it

Well, what a ride this has been... I can't remember a season with so many ups and downs like this one. More importantly it's been a really long time since a season ended on a high note. I haven't been this thrilled about this team in a really long time.

I personally expected a lot from this team, coaching staff and front office this season. I had faith that the players were better than they looked last season, i really thought they'd improve. And somehow despite the fairly high expectations they managed to play even better than i thought. Jrue blew me away with his maturity and complete game, Thad with his suddenly discovered defensive intensity, Brand with his work ethic and heart. Iguodala lifted his game to another level and became a leader (the only thing that was lacking IMO). Turner managed to shrug off his early season struggles and produced one of the better performances in the playoffs i've seen from a rookie. Lou became the ultimate high scoring 6th man, which was always his best case scenario. Meeks gave the team a dimension everyone has forgotten after years and years of bad shooting teams and terrible spacing. And Collins, well he gave the young players exactly what they needed, guidance and passion for the game. That's the most important thing of all to me. They learned how to play hard, how to love the game and enjoy playing with each other.

There will inevitably be significant roster changes this offseason. I think Thorn planned that all along but wanted to have a full season of evaluation. After all, that's what Collins was brought for. The center position will certainly be adressed, but will they get a permanent solution or another stopgap like Hawes remains to be seen. Iguodala has probably played his last game as a Sixer. He is a terrific player, always has been, but he appears to be the most expandable piece with value. I do believe that Jrue, Turner and Thad are the future and Iguodala will be traded while his trade value is at the highest level since he entered the league. And while i've always been an Iguodala fan and actually never thought he was overpayed i think it's time for him to go to a place where he will be appreciated for what he is and not bashed for what he is not.

Offseason NEEDS
1. A guy to play the 5 who isn't allergic to rebounding and is more athletic than a quadrapalegic (Spencer Hawes disqualified) (and a qualified back up who isn't 700 years old, Tony Battie disqualified)
2. A guy on the bench who can do something BESIDES scoring, be nice to have a variety of player types on the bench, wouldn't it?
3. A reduction in the number of non US Born players currently on the roster, by one.

Offseason not so much needs but you definitely got a problem.

1. Upgrade at the starting 2
2. Upgrade at PF back up with an eye towards Elton Brand won't last forever and there's a chance he doesn't even repeat these numbers next year due to age.

I guess a lot of people are excited cause the sixers did exactly what their roster would allow them to do, go 500 and win one game in the first round. (which, sadly, is exactly what John Hollinger predicted).

I'm not really all that excited. The season is over, the playoffs are over, the sixers never really had a shot to beat the Heat (or the celtics, MAYBE the magic if they hadn't gotten the five since the magic are playing for crap, but that's it)

There are still massively gaping holes a bad contract (Brands), a mismatched roster in terms of career arcs, a restricted free agent (Young) about to get paid too much money for too long (Unless the new cba saves the sixers from themselves) and very little in way of assets that will improve the team in a need area without hurting the team in another area (sorry Iguodala haters, you wanna trade him YOU MAKE THE SIXERS WORSE next season, period)

If the sixers had been the 7/8 seed last year (they had the talent, not the coach) would everyone be so excited about losing in the first round 4 straight years and showing no real progression toward being more than a first round wash out?

The excitement (at least in my case) has nothing to do with the result this season or the improvement from last season. I am excited because i know now that we have at least 3 players worth keeping, guys that have a legit chance to be a part of a core that may be able to contend in a 3-4 seasons. I couldn't say that about any player on the team over the past 2-3 seasons.

And YES trading away Iguodala will very likely make the Sixers a worse team next season. That doesn't mean that trading him isn't the best decision long term. I wouldn't mind if he stayed at all, you gotta give up something to get something else of quality. And i do believe that Jrue/Turner/Thad are a better core going forward than say Jrue/Iguodala/Brand. Age of course is probably the deciding factor.

Trading Iguodala was the best decision long term earlier this season, last season, and the sixers didn't do it. I don't get this belief that Comcast will suddenly change their minds and decide that mediocrity isn't a good goal. It's how they've run the team since 2002, they waited WAY too long to trade Iverson and got very little for him long term and I don't see why they'll do anything different with Iguodala (and while Brand is here trading Iguodala doesn't really do much to free up the future either)

I'm curios to know who these 3 players you are so certain about after a 5 game playoff series. A few years ago everyeone was 'so certain' about Sam after a 5 game playoff series as well.

Aside from Jrue, I haven't yet seen anyone who isn't a bench player on a real contender.

Jrue, Turner and Thad. And that has very little to do with their performance in the playoffs...

And i don't think trading Iguodala early in the season would've been a good choice. The team would be worse, they would have ended with, say, the 10th pick in one of the worst drafts ever. They wouldn't have gained valuable experience. They wouldn't have learned what it takes to win. What's to like in the situation?

1. I figured those were your three names, and I disagree with two of them. Thad's a one dimensional scorer and little else, Turner has shown nothing to say he's going to be a quality NBA starter long term.

2. Your rationale for not trading Iguodala earlier this year? It's the rationale that Comcast will use every year. (PS the whole 'playoff experience' thing to me is kind of vastly over rated.). If you think valuable experience would have been lost, look at your three players named as 3-4 years down the line. How much more playing time and involvement would Evan Turner have had if Iguodala was traded. Your premise that Jrue Thad and Evan are the core would indicate that by NOT trading Iguodala the sixers delayed the maturation of your core. Your own comments were looking only at the impact of trading Iguodala THIS season, that's all you talked about, you didn't project how that trade this year would have impacted next season.

1. Playing time does not equal experience and growth as a player. Playing on a losing team is essentially playing in garbage time.

2. There was nothing to be gained by trading Iguodala earlier and consequently tanking. The draft is bad. And the slight increase in playing time for Turner and Thad would have been worthless due to reasons stated in 1.

Isn't yesterday the PERFECT reason to completely start over? like we've said all year, our ceiling is Brand and Iguodala because they are the two best paid players on the team. It doesn't matter how much better everyone else magically gets. Get rid of Iguodala, maybe use ET as bait for Brand if absolutely necessary, or just hold off, build around Jrue, ET, unfortunately Thad, and pray to holy hell the draft picks we bring back are used to bring in super sleepers.

Cut bait, use Iguodala as our one and only trade chip, bring back cheap awful players and draft picks and pray we're bad enough to land ourselves in the lottery once more. With EB, we'll always have a huge gaping hole.

Seriously though, the sixers have been treading water since the end of the 2002 season in my opinion. The names have changed but the future remains the same (to me)

I don't agree that you trade Iguodala for the sake of trading Iguodala unless you can get solid young long term pieces. I don't agree with pairing Turner to getting rid of brand unless that makes the return much better because you need Turner and have to hope he pans out (if he doesn't, the sixers are kind of screwed anyway)

Any time in the past 9 years or so should have been the time to rebuild - just pick an off season - but it's not the sixers style - and I don't believe comcast will ok it - nor do I believe there will be a trade market with participating in until the new cba is signed and god knows what that's going to do. Who knows, maybe it increases the trade value.

(BTW - according to reports, the NBAPA has enough signatures to decertify in case of a lockout. YOU WANT the NBAPA to deceritfy. I've seen it mentioned many places that if a union decertifies, all guaranteed contracts can be null and void. If the NBAPA decertifies, I predict a massive voiding of bad contracts and a wild wild west free agency after the new CBA is signed.)

Personally, I don't think it will be easy to trade Iguodala. Sort of like what happened with Sammy- plenty of teams wanted his talent, but no one wanted to take on the contract.

Iguodala is on the books for 13.5, 14.7 and 15.9M with a new restrictive CBA looming. He is coming off an injury plagued season. He is a point forward in a league of point guards. He is no longer "a young player." He does not attract increased gate revenue.

I'm not bashing him. He's a tremendous player. Just trying to point out that there are only a handful of teams that would be in the market for Iguodala:

1. Teams that are currently contenders and don't care about the tax:
LA Lakers
Dallas
Boston

2. Teams with an equivalent big contract non-superstar who they could flip for Iguodala:

Clippers (Kaman- but he is an expiring next year, so unlikely)
Wash (Lewis)
GSW (Biedrins)
Magic (Hedo)
Hornets (Okafor)

But I can't see why a trade would work with any of those teams. The Sixers would not wan't most of those players. And many of those teams are rebuilding and would not want Iggy.

So Iguodala and Brand are both in the same boat as being much more valuable to the Sixers than they are worth to other teams.

I think Iguodala has more value than a Chris Kaman. Defensively alone he showed a lot this season (and against the Heat) that might make some team willing to over pay (hey dallas) for him to get that 'defensive stopper' who can contribute in other areas for 40 minutes per game. Problem is that by trading him I think the sixers at past stay level in terms of overall talent.

More likely though, trading Iguodala should be part of a rebuilding strategy because you won't get better for the next season when you trade him, which means finding a taker for Brand (MAYBE after this season you find one for very little but you get his contract off)

This requires Comcast to decide that perpetual first round losses are not as good as a few off seasons built towards competitiveness, and they've shown no indication that continued mediocrity / first round playoff losses isn't something they're comfortable with.

To me, a trade for Iguodala straight up for Kaman is selling Iguodala to save money (only). I see Kaman as just an expiring contract, that's it. It's a crappy ass deal. Put Aminu and the wolves pick in and then at least you get some assets (and with the way the wolves are developing that 2012 pick could be a top 5 lottery pick).

Iguodala straight up for Kaman is the kind of idiot trade Iguodala haters think is a good deal.

Yeah, sort of my originally point. There won't be good deals for Iguodala. You either keep him or sell him for poor value because his contract prevents a deal that would make "basketball sense" as a wise GM is fond of saying.

I think Kaman, the wolves pick and either aminu or blesoe that sooner suggested is probably the 'best' return in an Igoudala trade. Not necessarily a return I'm happy about but the best return the sixers could get and it requires a commitment from the clippers financially I'm not sure they're willing to make.

I think the teams like the Clippers and Warriors will definitely be interested regardless of his contract. Timberwolves, Hornets, Magic, Nuggets and even New york could be interested as well.

The real issue is whether those teams have something they can afford to offer, that we can use...

The Clippers and the Warriors to me look like the most realistic destinations. Do you see a realistic trade with them? That means a trade that doesn't inlude Curry, Gordon or Griffin (that wouldn't be realistic IMO).

Why would the Clippers trade for Iguodala? It makes no sense for the same reason it makes sense for the sixers to trade Iguodala. It doesn't fit the direction their roster is going. They should be looking to get future pieces for Kaman, not a longer deal. And they should be keeping Jordan, and if they aren't keeping Jordan, it's the same old Clippers and they wouldn't want Iguodala.

What do the Warriors have that you'd take back for Iguodala and be happy about it (David Lee and Monta Ellis are not names I find acceptable answers, Steph Curry and parts is really the only acceptable thing) and it's a organization in chaos, until they hire a new coach.

And you don't think Curry is a realistic option.

I think much like in the NFL that the NBA off season will be very quiet leading up to the draft, minimal trading on draft night and nothing done until a new CBA is in place, and projecting what can and can't be done without the new CBA is worse than asking Ms cleo your future

The Clippers feel like they can be a contender right now if they just added another piece. And Iguodala is a perfect fit for their team. Actually there is not a single team in the league where Iguodala would be e better fit at the moment IMO.

Anyway i'm not suggesting i like what the Warriors and Clippers can offer. I'm just saying they are the most realistic trade partners. But i agree that any changes are likely to come after the new CBA is known. But hey, we said that about the February trade deadline and look what happened.

I agree the clippers are a very good fit as long as they keep jordan, otherwise they'll need a center more than anything else. If they do, iggy can be in the same role he was this year only with better talent around him. Mo williams is a scoring point guard that isn't great at distributing and eric gordan is a great scorer. Iggy can serve as a play maker and a much needed upgrade to their perimeter defense. I would expect the clippers would trade kaman and I wouldn't do the deal unless they gave the sixers the twolves 2012 first rnd unprotected pick. From their it be nice to get another cheap player with upside like aminu or bledsoe(would be a great back up for jrue) but I don't think they would give up bledsoe right now.

The big part of this trade for the sixers, imo, is the draft pick. The 2012 draft will be one of the best in a long time. I would like the fo to try and stockpile as many picks for that draft as possible.

I think you're making an assumption about what the Clippers want or think or feel without taking into account the owner who thinks profit first second and third and usually doesn't care much about winning, and the greater area of his market might be about to be split up (Kings to Anaheim).

What the clippers do with DeAndre Jordan will indicate what they 'want' or 'believe' in my opinion. Until then, anything the GM says is hot air and BS because of the owners history.

I'll preface this with 2 things first I'm of the belief that this team is more than a solid defensive/rebounding/athletic center away from being truly a contender and second I'm in love with the 2012 draft. So I want to keep as many of the cheap young players we have now and get as many picks for the 2012 draft as possible.

I just don't see any possible way of making this team a contender via free agency or by acquiring players through trades in the short term so I'm trying to take the longview with this team and get a really good player(s) in the 2012 draft and have cap space in the summer of 2012 (hopefully they'll be an attractive franchise to free agents at that point).

I'm guessing you're hoping for a quickier turnaround then me which I can't blame you for.

It's not a horrible trade, it gets an expiring contract and some assets that could mature - but to me - it would depend on the twolves 2012 draft protectioni and maybe getting the clippers 2012 pick as well (because you make that trade they're probably in the playoffs, but it's nice to have that extra pick anyway)

I would do back flips if they could get both 1st rounders aminu and bledsoe. I think they might have thoughts of having bledsoe as their pg of the future but I'm not sure. I don't know if they value iggy that much. We may have to include something else not sure what though, maybe a future 1st(that is protected of course).

The only reason I think this might be plausible is that there is risk in not doing the deal and rolling the dice with that draft pick and I don't see aminu becoming anything close to the player that iggy is. So they can do the trade and know what their getting in iggy and take on the contract or hope they make a good pick that pans out and or aminu turns out to be at least a rotational player. I think the sixers would be more inclined to take the risk on the pick and aminu because the clippers roster (at least the starters) with iggy would be one of the best and most balanced imo and the sixers have depth at sf/sg and would continue to have depth with adding aminu.

If the Clippers were willing to do some kind of sign and trade with Jordan, I think that could be something worth pursuing, to get that young big with defensive ability. But I wouldn't want Kaman in any way shape or form.

Yeah true, I see what you're saying there. I just don't see how to justify trading Iguodala without getting some kind of answer at the center position that brings defense and rebounding. That is starting to seem like it might require taking back a bad contract or something.

If Iguodala is traded, the return needs to be assets (not asset) that are younger, and fill needs, doesn't HAVE to be center per se. If you're trading Iguodala you have to be prepared to take a step back a season or two to let the youth of Jrue, maybe Evan, maybe Meeks, maybe the new pieces from the Iguodala trade, gel. Yes the sixers need a center, but they need a PF they believe can start when Brand is old or traded (don't have) they need a bench guy who can rebound and/or defend solidly - a wing defender and i believe an upgrade over meeks to start at the two.

To me, trading Iguodala is a committment to 'rebuilding' around Jrue and whomever else and thus you get pieces you believe can help that long term, doesn't HAVE to be a center, but has to be inexpensive and young in addition to the 'shorter contract' (like Kaman). To me, kaman in an iguodala deal isn't so much a player as an expiring contract.

Kaman is just an expiring contract to make the deal work. I like jordan too but I'm not sold that he can really be full time starting center. Having blake griffin next along side you in the post can make you look like a much better center than you really are. But he maybe legit I'm just not sure yet.

I suggested doing that deal because I don't see any available big men worth getting right now. That may change in time, but for the time being I'd like the sixers to look to the 2012 draft to find that superstar/big time scorer because as hard as it is to get a quality 5 right now its even harder to get a superstar.

I read that article earlier and it's actually a very good article. Haberstoh basically puts Iguodala in the group of Howard, Garnett, Randolph and Bynum as a guy worthy of building around, while saying that Stoudemire, Boozer, Ellis, Al Jefferson and Kevin Martin are not worthy of being a centerpiece of a contender.

Since I find the premise of building around Zach Randolph (because of who he is) and Kevin Garnett (because he's at the end of his career) kind of silly combined with not enjoying Habestroh in general, I woudln't put too much weight on it.

Plus I disagree on the premise with Iguodala. Iguodala is an excellent player but you DO NOT build a roster around him.

If you say 'gotta trade Iguodala', you must back it up with a realistic trade that both teams involved would make with rationalization for why both teams should make it.

All the 'trade Iguodala' fans who have been begging them to trade him for years because he's 'overpaid' never really have an idea of what is available around the league and seem happy to trade him for a bag of doritos. He's not Willie Green folks

Brian, thanks again for putting together such an awesome blog. It is nice reading these articles and posts by true Sixers fan. It is great to have such a community that is taking part in this blog, and by doing so in a fairly level headed manner. Thanks again!

Number one to do this off season - get a freaking center not named Spencer Hawes

Kate has a long post that basically says Iguodala is a giant mistake and the front office can't be blinded by loyalty in fixing that mistake. She goes to great pains to say she isn't saying that, but she's still saying it. Basically, Iguodala is Stefanski's secret shame. Trading Dalembert had to be done, and the Brand contract is looking decent right now. Then he gave a "monster" contract to a guy who can't be a "star."

Read the story, tell me if you have a different take on what she's saying. I may just be super sensitive today. I'm also preoccupied with getting out of here before I get stuck on my bike in a torrential downpour.

That isn't what I got out of this article. You make it sound like an iggy bashing article when its clearly a front office bashing article. Half the article was spent leading up to the point that $18 million is being wasted on noce, kappono and songila. The part about iggy getting a monster deal is true relative to this teams pay roll, $80 million is a lot of money. The point that the front office see's iggy through rose colored glasses is true (she doesn't mention that most of the fan base see iggy through shit colored glasses though). He was thrusted into being the star of this team and that wasn't fair to iggy. Granted, she certainly doesn't paint herself as being in the keep iggy camp but this article is about the front office taking accountability for this roster.

Also she said brand's contract "while not redeemed, doesn't look so bad now," she didn't say it looks decent, big difference.

She also contradicts herself in saying sammy had to be moved yet bashes the contracts we got back for him.

I often don't agree with kate but I do agree with the main point she tries to present here. Its worth a read.

I think she writes her articles based on the 'vibe' from the fanbase - she allows what the fans think to influence the tone of her articles so she gets web hits - which doesn't make her a journalist anymore

I just think she tries to appeal to Philly fans too much. Like, how the hell can you brush over the Brand contract (as good as the guy played) but make three paragraphs about Iguodala being "annointed a star" and "a blind spot" of love for him, while talking about his contract as an example of "retroactively proving yourself right?"

Pardon my french, and Kate I hope you read this at some time, but that is a huge piece of shit.

Now, if they try and resign Hawes, that would be an example of trying to prove that you were right.

Funny, it seems to me she's trying to appeal to her fans, the ones that read her articles on philly.com. If you ever read the comment section on one of the Deep Sixer blog posts, there are just an inordinate number of Iguodala haters there who go out of their way to criticize him. Even though fans and critics alike agree that the Sixers overpaid for Brand, Brand just doesn't incite the same level of visceral response from the fans. I wonder if "newspaper" writers are now evaluated by the number of page views they bring?

For what it's worth, Kate has had this "blind spot" idea in her mind since at least December. She answered a chat question of mine with many of the same themes (front office signed him and was too attached to think rationally about letting him go). This was the same (now legendary) chat where Brian took her to task for that viewpoint and got the whole crowd of idiots riled up at him. In fairness, it doesn't help Kate's opinion of Iguodala that she took off about a month in the middle of the season, right when he was playing his best ball, and came back to see him playing his worst ball.

I can tell you from a pretty good source that not all writers pay too much attention to their comments, too, but that's "off the record." Maybe she does though, sure seems to write that way.

I just wish she would not inject whatever spin she has developed. Last year it was cool because she was one of the people in the media who cared enough to take Eddie Jordan to task from the start. Now that you can't blame Doug, Iguodala's next on the list I guess?

This is basically the same trade I proposed last night with Nocioni in there instead of Songalia. Here is my reasons: Washington is in a prime spot to get a top big this year so they might be interested in dealing McGee. We would have much better size. Brand and Lewis would come off the books in the same year. We could continue to grow our team and be set to make a leap to an elite contender in 2013-14 season. We would also be in a prime situation to resign Jrue that year and possibly get Dwight Howard that same offseason.

So basically you want to trade Iguodala AND Meeks for one of the worst contracts in the league in R.Lewis and a center with a lot of style but very little substance in McGee. That's not a good trade IMO. McGee is not that good, nor will he ever be.

I'd like to see Thad at the 3 but am not sure if he can fit that role. Brand and Lewis become valuable trade bait in 2012 - 13. I don't see a real proposal that gets us a young big without taking an overvalued contract like Lewis. Atleast we are out of it a year earlier than with Iggy.

G-State gets Andre to compliment Ellis/Curry and also move Biedrins contract. Milwaukee moves chemistry killer Maggette and gets back two fairly young bigs. Sixers add a serviceable 3 in Wright and a young C with potential. Maggette can warm the bench or they can trade him somewhere or maybe Brand & Collins can coax something out of him. I really don't care. His deal expires same year as Brand's so you'll have even more expiring contracts to deal.

OR:

How about Igoudala to Indiana for Paul George & 2012 #1 pick? Pacers have cap space - Collison/Igoudala/Granger isn't a bad 1-2-3 and I like George's potential. Doesn't fix our problem at the 5, but maybe give us some flexibiity cap-wise and another pick in this "stacked" 2012 draft.

He was a great player treated like absolute CRAP by the fans and every time the phils thought about trading him he indicated he had no desire to ever leave Philadelphia.

(Whether it makes a difference that he left or not is an entirely different story ;) )

I always wondered about that. People got on pat for being soft and 'pretty boy' but if he really was that wouldnt' he have taken the first trade away from the fans who couldn't appreciate great players?

What I should have said is that there was a portion (minority) of the fanbase who at least liked, or loved, Pat Burrell and didn't hate on him like the WIP crowd who while a larger portion (and louder) portion of the fanbase I find that I hardly ever agree with them.

Though if a player doesn't want to come to Philly because of the 'fans', it's that loud WIP fanbase that makes it so.

It's not just the lack of appreciation from the fanbase, it's the lack of appreciation nationally - awards mean something in terms of how you are seen nationally and look how he got bitchslapped in DPOY voting. He should have been top 3 - and some horrible defenders came in ahead of him.

I wouldn't blame him if he asked for a trade. Wasting the best years of your career on a 500 team when you could be that final piece on a team needing to win a title?

I don't know if they have the assets but I wonder if the spurs would want Iguodala - they're teetering on that brink of being too old.

Like I said - don't know what assets the spurs have. There's Splitter who didn't have a great first season?

Before folks talk gary neal -he's an OLD rookie - i mean real old for a rookie.

What 'euro players' do they own the rights to?

Just spitballing teams that might be interested in adding an Iguodala. Someone mentioned the warriors, and that I don't see, it has to be a team 'close' to something and Iguodala gets them over that - the warriors aren't close to anything good - they're a mess.

Oh yeah- maybe they could get matt bonner - sixers fans would love that dude

Gotta say, I really enjoyed reading through this thread. I'm not sure what to feel about Iguodala. The guy is great but you can't win anything big without getting either a monster two-way big man or a scoring wing plus an above average defensive big. Now, Turner might develop into a decent scorer from the two, and this playoffs kind of helped my belief (If you score against the Heat in the playoffs, there aren't many more athletic teams), but you just don't know with him. The question for Iguodala is, "Can we get him the help he needs while he's still the very good player he is now?" Then we can sort of figure out where to go from there.

It's not an easy question, there's no doubt, but Iguodala for a package in this year's draft possibly? How about using him to move up and get Bismarck or whatever TK's love interest's name is? Obviously the other team would have to throw something back, maybe a bench big and an expiring?

Again, after some of the treatment he's STILL Getting after this season - wouldn't you be?

Dude has worked his ass of since day one and still the majority of fans (and some writers Kate Fagan) refuse to acknowledge anything good about him.

I'm not a pro athlete, but (believe it or not) i work my ass off doing about 12 different high level jobs at my place of business cause of limited funds, and sometimes the massive lack of appreciation aggravates me, just because a guy makes a lot of money doesn't mean he doesn't want (let alone deserve, need) positive reinforcement from whomever is employing him (and in sports the fans too) and I still don't even think the FRANCHISE is behind Iguodala.

Agree, and I don't think he was depressed. I think mainly he was noncommittal and didn't want to say anything that could be misconstrued later (and in that way is similar to McNabb again). Seems to me he's living by the Serenity Prayer ("Grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change"), which isn't a bad way to go for pro athletes ...

1. The NBA currently owns the Hornets and there's no way they trade Chris Paul (I don't believe they'd do that even before his playoff amazingness) - he's the only reason people show up in New Orleans and the NBA (stupidly) refuses to consider moving the team.

2. Chris Paul is a free agent in 2012 - if you trade for him without getting a contract extension signed - that's nuts - and I doubt he'd agree to sign an extension here after you give up two of your best players to get him (and picks? Are you nuts, let's not do the philip rivers eli manning trade all over again huh?). Plus - where's the salary matching come from?

This is twice already that Iguodala was very non-commital to staying in Philly. He didn't even say that he likes it here. And the amazing thing is the national media hasn't even noticed that. I mean how low is the interest in the Sixers, whatever his contract Iguodala is a very good player that certainly deserves some attention in a time where he essentially said that he doesn't expect to be back next season.

There will be a tiny window to trade him before a lockout. I'll be really surprised if anything happens.

Big picture it makes sense to try and have Jrue take ownership on the floor. Keep Iguodala and Brand around 2 more years... and then hopefully make some impact moves once the team really has some flexibility.

Not sure how taking a huge step back for 1-2 years by dumping Iguodala or Brand right now would even help them long term. And I believe that Brand and Iguodla have 10X more value to the Sxiers than what they would realistically get in return.

I don't see him as being non-committal. The guy flatout said yesterday that he wants to play for one city, and wants to put his name in the Sixers record books with the other legends. All he says is that he doesn't really control whether he comes back or not, which is true. He doesn't have a no-trade and his contract isn't up for a few years, so he has "no control" as he said. I mean, he's seen AI be traded during his tenure as well.

Just a note for those targeting the 2012 NBA as 'awesome sauce' - keep in mind that one thing the league wants is to force college kids to stay TWO years. The players claim they'll fight it but I believe it's a smoke screen so it looks like something they 'conceded' on later in the negotiations. Why would the players union care how long a guy has to go to college? For the majority of the players, it's irrelevant and maybe gives a guy an extra year in the league.

Hence why trading for a 2012 draft pick before the new cba might not be as valuable as one thinks right now.

I believe the NBA will get its second year, and then they'll compromise on rookie deals again so the players have these 'older' guys getting their second contract a year sooner or something

The Sixers can't offer a contract to Nene because they are well over the tax. They can only off the MLE- if that even still exists after the new CBA. They could also try to do a sign and trade deal using Iguodala.