Plenty of people have proudly served, tons of people lift weights, many 5th tier competitors have schmoes. Dig deeper.

She put herself in jail.

I'm guessing there's someone you wanted to kill and lacked whatever it takes to pull the triggers, reload and pull the triggers again. You're mistaking revenge for strength. True strength would have been going through the whole process; divorce, visitation, lifestyle changes, child support, etc... She took the easy way out.

Drkaje, you ignorance on such subjects is truly disturbing!!! You sit off in your removed, out-of-touch with reality, ivory tower and pass judgement on things you don't know "shiit-from-shinola" about!

Having grown up in an abusive home where my father regularly physically beat both my mother and myself, I promise you that many victims in that situation, through a combination of fear and self-preservation, seriously consider killing their predator mate/parent...as the ONLY way out! You are literally "worn-down" emotionally/psychologically where you will seriously consider anything, including murder, to end the constant abuse!

This is particularly true if you believe your psycho, demented, predator, mate's/parent's threats that they will never let you leave, or be able escape this abusive environment...i.e. "they will hunt you down". Uhhh...you don't just walk-out/leave and hope to be safe!

Sally, in a very abusive environment, just wasn't very smart in the way she went about disposing of predator Ray. Hopefully, other women in a similar situation will dispose of their abusive mate in a more intelligent/creative fashion!

And, if you think "filing complaints" with the police and "going through legal channels" will adequately protect you from such brutal, demented, predators...then, you have the realistic stark evidence of the legions of battered/abused women "6 feet under" who "unsuccessfully" took this very route and were subsequently killed by their predator mate/ex-mate. As the law means nothing to these psychos!

However, Sally's approach, if done intelligently...i.e KILL THEM!...gets rid of these psycho, demented, predators, PERMANENTLY...that way these battered women don't constantly have to "keep looking over their shoulders" and living in constant fear!l

Drkaje, you ignorance on such subjects is truly disturbing!!! You sit off in your removed, out-of-touch with reality, ivory tower and pass judgement on things you don't know "shiit-from-shinola" about!

Having grown up in an abusive home where my father regularly physically beat both my mother and myself, I promise you that many victims in that situation, through a combination of fear and self-preservation, seriously consider killing their predator mate/parent...as the ONLY way out!

This is particularly true if you believe your psycho, demented, predator, mate's/parent's threats that they will never let you leave, or be able escape this abusive environment...i.e. "they will hunt you down". Uhhh...you don't just walk-out/leave and hope to be safe!

Sally, in a very abusive environment, just wasn't very smart in the way she went about disposing of predator Ray. Hopefully, other women in a similar situation will dispose of their abusive mate in a more intelligent/creative fashion!

And, if you think "filing complaints" with the police and "going through legal channels" will adequately protect you from such brutal, demented, predators...then, you have the realistic stark evidence of the legions of battered/abused women "6 feet under" who "unsucessfully" took this very route and were subsequently killed by their predator mate/ex-mate. As the law means nothing to these psychos!

However, Sally's approach, if done intelligently...i.e KILL THEM!...gets rid of these psycho, demented, predators, PERMANENTLY...that way these battered women don't constantly have to "keep looking over their shoulders" and living in constant fear!l

Thank you. The muscle-chick fetish finally makes sense.

Still waiting for Medfool to give a sensical answer.

If I said OJ was a great warrior against blondes taking alimony from rich black men, you'd all be aghast. Yet, she's some icon to the abused. It's BS (won't swear, not fully familiar with the forum's rules). She took the easy way out, no matter how you slice it.

A. You cannot get his side of the story. Hmmmmm, I wonder why. I remember, he's dead. One more dead black guy doesn't matter too much in the US. If a blonde girl gets killed or goes missing the national guard gets sent out, LOL!

Unlike others, I can tell "shit from shinola" and that's why I'm calling BS here. If she only shot him once, I'd believe self defense. If she just emptied the gun, I'd be willing to believe temporary insanity. No! She emptied the gun, re-loaded and emptied it again.... no matter how you slice it she murdered him.

Abusing women is wrong but we're supposed to be a nation of laws, not excuses.

It's one thing if she shot just one time.....but when she reloaded & shot him a second time (and in the face)....her story sank

Is that you “knny 187”, with over 16,000 Getbig posts under this alias and some 40,000-odd posts under all of your other aliases???! Knny’s a Getbig “urban legend” guys!

Uhhh…Knny, do you and Doc remember the case of Francine Hughes!?? Francine, who after enduring 13 years of physical abuse/battering “snapped” and, in March, 1977, while her abusive husband was upstairs in their home sleeping, bundled her children into their family car and went back into her husband’s bedroom and set his bed on fire, and then blithely drove-off with the kids while her husband burned to death as their house went up in flames!!

You may recall that Farrah Fawcett "immortalized" Francine's story in the movie The Burning Bed.

Uhhh…how is Francine’s murder of her husband any different from Sally’s IN INTENT (hey, by comparison, Ray’s homicide was more “humane” than Francine’s husband!)??!

Yet, Francine “walked” and Sally gets life for essentially the same “premeditated” (or “snapped”…pushed to the "breaking point”) crime!???

I am sure that Sally’s general pubic jury saw her as some “huge, muscular”, illegal drug/‘roid taking, female bodybuilder…even though I am sure the RELATIVE physical differences (size/weight/strength) between Francine and her husband were approximately same as between Ray and Sally!

Is that you “knny 187”, with over 16,000 Getbig posts under this alias and some 40,000-odd posts under all of your other aliases???! Knny’s a Getbig “urban legend” guys!

Uhhh…Knny, do you and Doc remember the case of Francine Hughes!?? Francine, who after enduring 13 years of physical abuse/battering “snapped” and, in March, 1977, while her abusive husband was upstairs in their home sleeping, bundled her children into their family car and went back into her husband’s bedroom and set his bed on fire, and then blithely drove-off with the kids while her husband burned to death as their house went up in flames!!

You may recall that Farrah Fawcett "immortalized" Francine's story in the movie The Burning Bed.

Uhhh…how is Francine’s murder of her husband any different from Sally’s IN INTENT (hey, by comparison, Ray’s homicide was more “humane” than Francine’s husband!)??!

Yet, Francine “walked” and Sally gets life for essentially the same “premeditated” (or “snapped”…pushed to the "breaking point”) crime!???

I am sure that Sally’s general pubic jury saw her as some “huge, muscular”, illegal drug/‘roid taking, female bodybuilder…even though I am sure the RELATIVE physical differences (size/weight/strength) between Francine and her husband were the approximately same as between Ray and Sally!

Shame on you Doc, playing the tiresome “race card”…ho hum!!

Bullshit!

If the situation were reversed, not one person here would be celebrating Ray's actions. Now you're gonna pretend she wasn't an androgen-jacked, ex-marine*. I just find the whole stream of thought hypocritical and tire of people making lame-assed excuses for wrong behavior. As far as race cards go.... not one person here can lie well enough to convince us that his race wasn't a factor in this case.

I really don't have time to track silly shit like that but... the next time a black guy goes off and kills a bunch of white people, I hope someone sends me an e-mail so he can be proclaimed a hero, LOL!

Another thing I find funny as hell is that none of the Sallyites new Ray or have any actual firsthand knowledge of the ralationship's nature. Yet! They're convinced Ray deserved killing. Stupid ideas being advanced like this make it pretty hard to feel sympathy for real abuse victems who actually snap because they end up being compared to murderers.

* Note: Honestly, there's no such thing as an ex-marine. It's more a case of hyperbole to prove my point.

There is no excuse in this case for what she did. You shouldn't be idolizing her for her man killing ways, you people should be disgusted with her.

She stayed in the abusive relationship.... it's her fault, she is an idiot and didn't leave. If she was so empowered why didn't she just pack her shit and say bye bye and leave and move on with her life. You know why because she's a freaking NUTJOB, who was weak and just sat by and took it until she cracked. From the reports who knows if he really was abusive she just might been going through some depression or emotional imbalance from all the drugs and roid-raged his ass.

The main point is this situation could have been completely avoided. Nobody needed to die. Nobody has the right to take another person's life and she broke those rules and now is getting what she deserves.

"Respondent Sally Marie McNeil killed her husband after an argument over his infidelity and spending habits. The State of California charged her with murder. Respondent's theory at trial was that her husband had tried to strangle her during the argument, but that she had escaped, fetched a shotgun from the bedroom, and killed him out of fear for her life. Fingernail marks were indeed found on her neck after the shooting. She testified that her husband had been abusive, and a defense expert opined that she suffered from Battered Women's Syndrome. The State countered with forensic evidence showing that the fingernail marks were not her husband's and may have been self-inflicted, and with the testimony of a 911 operator who overheard respondent tell her husband she had shot him because she would no longer tolerate his behavior. "

If the situation were reversed, not one person here would be celebrating Ray's actions. Now you're gonna pretend she wasn't an androgen-jacked, ex-marine*. I just find the whole stream of thought hypocritical and tire of people making lame-assed excuses for wrong behavior. As far as race cards go.... not one person here can lie well enough to convince us that his race wasn't a factor in this case.

I really don't have time to track silly shit like that but... the next time a black guy goes off and kills a bunch of white people, I hope someone sends me an e-mail so he can be proclaimed a hero, LOL!

Another thing I find funny as hell is that none of the Sallyites new Ray or have any actual firsthand knowledge of the ralationship's nature. Yet! They're convinced Ray deserved killing. Stupid ideas being advanced like this make it pretty hard to feel sympathy for real abuse victems who actually snap because they end up being compared to murderers.

* Note: Honestly, there's no such thing as an ex-marine. It's more a case of hyperbole to prove my point.

Uhhh...uhhh...Doc, you do see the similarities between the Francine Hughes case/situation and Sally's don't you???! I mean at the time Francine and Sally (BOTH suffering from years of physical abuse at the hands of men much bigger and stronger than they were) decided to kill their husbands, these men were relatively defenseless.

Although both men were in a similar "helpless" situation at the time they were murdered...the "ignorant of bodybuilding" general public jury that tried Sally stereotyped her (as you said) a "jacked/juiced" ex-marine, strongwoman, female wrestler, etc. and such a stereotyped, NEGATIVE, image of FBBers, like Sally, helped convict her...i.e. they are ALL drug-crazed, 'roid rage, FREAKS!

In reality though, Sally was in the same relative legal/abusive/physical-size-disadvantaged position as Francine Hughes. Both of these women just "snapped" at the point in time they decided to kill their husbands. In PRINCIPLE, what they did was NO different!!

Francine was found innocent because her jury viewed her premeditated homicidal act as "self defense"! In other words, her general public jury "identified" her as a "normal" woman..."one of them"...and not some bodybuilding FREAK. But, in reality, Francine and Sally had been facing identical physical/emotional/psychological abuse...over many years...when they finally "snapped".

I mean, the non-bodybuilding/non-exercising general public (potential jurors of BBers in the future) only has to come to Getbig's forums and read the 80-90% moron-level posts, or go to the "Steroids Info & Hardcore" forum!! And then, come away convinced that ALL bodybuilders are illegal drug-using/drug-dealing, walking 'roid rage time bombs, and a MENACE TO SOCIETY!! And, who would blame them after reading the majority of the vulgar, libelous, threatening, moronic, posts on these forums??!

That she didn't get off and get scott free because her reputation and persona came away as a person who would commit murder.

Well buddy, don't know how to tell you it but she did commit murder and is getting what she deserves and glad that the jury was able to put 2 and 2 together and come to the right decision.

You shouldn't be mad at the jurors for doing there job, because they made the right decision. You should be mad that sally mcneil is making bodybuilding look bad and giving us all this persona of roided out crazy people that will just snap and kill.

So what if that francine lady got off. Lucky her, the judicial system failed that day. It was an accident she should be in jail too, not sally be free.

My father was a big "rough, tough", ex-marine...and I don't mean this sarcastically as he weighed over 200 all-natural, raw-boned, lbs. (a pretty big guy in the 1940's and 1950's, and I promise you someone you wouldn't want to "run into in a dark alley some night"!).

He temporarily instructed hand-to-hand combat in the Corps, and served in WWII in the invasions of both Guam and Iwo Jima. When sober, he "swore" over and over again that only a "cowardly man" would ever beat/batter a woman. Yet, he literally beat my mother on a regular basis when he was drunk...as he was "mean as hell" then!

The neighbors called the police on him several times and my mother (and myself) were totally intimidated and "scared to death" of him! She truly believed that she could not "escape him" as he threatened her life if she ever tried to leave him. During some of these beatings, I tried to intervene and he beat the shiit out of me, too!

Both my mother and myself were convinced that the ONLY way to escape him was to kill him! Fortunately, he died of natural causes, due to his "hard living", before either of us could carry out his premeditated homicide. And, for your info., protection of the law, in the 1950's, from male spousal abuse/beatings was an absolute JOKE!!!

BigGuns, like I said above somewhere/elsewhere, ONLY unless you have lived day-to-day in an emotionally charged/explosive environment like that can you have ANY realistic concept of what it was/is like!! Otherwise, it is just like Nancy Reagan, off in her ivory tower TOTALLY out of touch with reality, telling hooked hard drug users "to just say no/quit"!

What I am saying is that both Sally and Francine should have been tried by a jury of mainly women, who themselves had to experience spousal physical beatings, and maybe a few BBers as well (who don't think that all BBers are drug-crazed, 'roid rage, freaks)!

Of course, IMO, Sally is not totally innocent...but neither is she totally guilty...of the crime, considering the very extenuating circumstances!

I never 'hung' with Sally & Ray and wouldn't consider them friends back in the day....but I have a lot of close friends (former Marines, Gym Owners) & even a co-worker that knew them up close and personal & spent a lot of time with them.

Sally was a 'high strung' idiot...plain & simple. Her ego was severely inflated & Ray was as mellow as they came. Now....with that being said....I cannot say Ray never took a swung at Sally...but folks....if you knew them....Sally was the aggressor in the relationship. Ray was pulling her off people fight after fight. Sally was arrested for domestic disturbance & domestic violence....not Ray. When the cops came for her...she resisted arrest & tried throwing one over the balcony & would have succeeded if the cops partner wasn't there. I don't know how many arresting officers were there that day, but there was quite a few of them that had to subdue/restrain her for the arrest.

I've said this before on getbig....but I remember that valentines day in 1995 like it was yesterday. I just got back from Okinawa & I walked into my company office & there was an old lifting buddy of mine that used to train/compete with Ray. He said.."did you hear the news"...."no" I replied. The he said "She blew his face off & killed him. So many times I warned Ray that she was unstable & she was going to kill him some day and he always told me 'no man....don't worry so much'.

Well...I'm not too sure if prison changed her much. I seriously doubt it.

Please note, I am periodically weaning this thread down to pictures only...but I will answer your questions before I do that.

Here we go, LOL! People finally start discussing the case and you can't handle the conversation's content/direction. Richard and I are disagreeing within the forum's rules, there is no legitimate reason to "wean" the thread. Next you'll pull a ~flour~ and move it to another forum.

I never 'hung' with Sally & Ray and wouldn't consider them friends back in the day....but I have a lot of close friends (former Marines, Gym Owners) & even a co-worker that knew them up close and personal & spent a lot of time with them.

Sally was a 'high strung' idiot...plain & simple. Her ego was severely inflated & Ray was as mellow as they came. Now....with that being said....I cannot say Ray never took a swung at Sally...but folks....if you knew them....Sally was the aggressor in the relationship. Ray was pulling her off people fight after fight. Sally was arrested for domestic disturbance & domestic violence....not Ray. When the cops came for her...she resisted arrest & tried throwing one over the balcony & would have succeeded if the cops partner wasn't there. I don't know how many arresting officers were there that day, but there was quite a few of them that had to subdue/restrain her for the arrest.

I've said this before on getbig....but I remember that valentines day in 1995 like it was yesterday. I just got back from Okinawa & I walked into my company office & there was an old lifting buddy of mine that used to train/compete with Ray. He said.."did you hear the news"...."no" I replied. The he said "She blew his face off & killed him. So many times I warned Ray that she was unstable & she was going to kill him some day and he always told me 'no man....don't worry so much'.

Well...I'm not too sure if prison changed her much. I seriously doubt it.

Knny, an excellent post and certainly revealing and logically supportive of Ray!

If we live long enough and cross the paths of enough couples, and observe their relationships, we periodically observe the volatile “Sally and Ray couple mix” and wonder just when the explosion is going to take place…an accident truly waiting to happen!! Whether these “star-crossed” relationships are fueled by genetics, alcohol, or other drugs…or a combination of these factors…who knows?! I’ve seen several!

Also, our individual-backgrounds/life-experiences sadly prejudice our viewpoint(s) on so many things, regardless of how hard we try to be objective…and sincerely “think” we are!

Each case of spousal physical abuse has to be judged on its own merits! Very often, these women commit murder after “losing it” as the result of repeated physical abuse and repeated affairs (similar to what was rumored for Ray). But, as Knny in essence said, “it takes TWO to tango”!

I think the comparison of the Francine Hughes case and Sally’s is a fascinating one. If Farrah Fawcett played Francine correctly in the movie, she came across in the courtroom as being 100% the victim. Obviously, Sally did not and her volatile background helped convict her, along with her BB drug usage, and, sadly, possibly the “BB stigma” (as viewed by the general public)!

In addition (and a BIG addition), we only have to look at the on-going Titus/Ryan case to appreciate the level of removal from reality (e.g. paranoia), and erratic volatility, that the dope-clouded minds of these long-term, drug-using, BBers experience…where they are very apparently mixing recreational drugs with BB drugs in their stacks. In that regard, I imagine this was the "common thread" running between the mental states of Craig/Kelly and Sally/Ray. In other words, who knows what was going on in their feverish minds at the time that their alleged/actual crimes were committed!??

The main thing that everyone knew....is Ray liked women. Now Sally had A LOT of alternate things she could have done. She did not have children with the man....so the door was always there to leave. The thing with Sally is....if she couldn't have Ray....nobody was going to have him. This is one of the real reasons she blew his face off.

really, knny. all I want to do is keep this thing from growing into a huge 10 page thing. I privately PM'd everyone else so far to let them know when I deleted posts, and it didn't bother anybody. I want to keep it to under 5 pages but keep all of the pictures

really, knny. all I want to do is keep this thing from growing into a huge 10 page thing. I privately PM'd everyone else so far to let them know when I deleted posts, and it didn't bother anybody. I want to keep it to under 5 pages but keep all of the pictures