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Topic: bees gone.... (Read 1874 times)

I went out today since the temps were up close to 50, to have a peek at my hive. I last inspected in October, and they seemed good, they had re-queened in august, but seemed to be doing ok, had brood, etc etc etc. Now, all the bees are gone. There's maybe 50-100 dead bees on the bottom of the hive, nothing like the number that should have been in the cluster if they stayed steady to the numbers that I saw in october. No dead bees head down in the cells like it was just too cold to get to the stored hone... just empty... there's not a lot of stores left, but there are some. a frame and a half of capped honey? and all the brood is the top third honey or there abouts.

Your description suits exactly to the dead outs by varroa.

It develops so that you have a good hive.

Then it has a brood brake before autumn.When new queen start to lay, all free mites go onto brood, which ought to be winter bees.

When new bees are dead or badly violated. very few will stay alive. Summer bees will die during autumn.

The result is that there are so few bees in the hive that they cannot keep brood alive and that is why you see some capped brood there. Bees are old and they die on fields.

2 years ago I lost this way 3 huge hives. They all had queen change in fall. When I started to give Oxalic trickling in December, they were totally empty.

Mouse, if your bees have lots of varroa, you can tell by bees with deformed wings showing up. You can even see the varroa crawling around on the bees, and the pupae in any opened cells would show them clearly.

A hive affected by varroa doesn't suddenly dwindle away to next to nothing, the sudden dwindling is CCD.

Varroa is the favourite scapegoat for the pesticide corporations to blame the massive colony losses on that have been caused by their systemic pesticides in recent years.

I am sure that Mouse will be able to do his own research into CCD and neonics now, and that he is going to be aware, that a lot of disinformation is spread by the pesticide corporations, which would lose billions if these chemicals were banned.

If he goes round to his beekeeping neighbors he might find that they have similar problems with keeping their bees alive, and that in areas without these pesticides, bees are still thriving.

Never mind all the other pollinators that are disappearing wherever these pesticides are used, as well as the birds, whose food source (aphids, worms, beetles, etc.) have been killed off. :-x

I'm not real sure of the points being made here. :idunno:

Hey don't get me wrong I'm sure not pushing pesticides, in fact I think they should all be banned (or at least modified to destroy real pests, like politicians :-D), but simply blaming bad beekeeping practices (intentional or not) on pesticides does not help a Beek to learn or accept their responsibilities in learning.

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Even if it WAS CCD, which I'm not convinced (doesn't seem like there was enough capped brood for that) I have still learned a lot of valuable lessons about better management processes which will help me overwinter next year. We are not near any large commercial fields though (not even within three or four miles that I'm aware of) around here it's mostly too straight up and down for good farmland :p So I'm not sure how much real pesticide spraying there is going on. Mostly we have a lot of native meadows, small gardens, and some fruit trees. plus the tiny local graveyard next to us is literally carpeted with thyme :) As far as I know, local beeks don't have problems with persistantly losing all of their hives, although my experience of them is quite limited. I can't get away to attend the local club, and the only beeks in my immediate location have been so negative that I've stopped talking to them :(

as per swarming.... I didn't think first year hives that still had empty frames were prone to it? Bee mentor told me I'd probably have to worry next year but not this. Also, I thought that a queenless hive produced multiple queen cells, then the first queen to to emerge stung all the others to death and took over the hive? Wouldn't that be the simpler explanation?

I definitely DID have at least a small mite problem late in the year, because I found feces in some spots on the brood, it wasn't by any means on all the brood, and I never saw a deformed bee. certainly it was more than likely a contributing factor, and next year I will be putting in drone comb and trapping for mites. Again, I didn't think (as per mentor again) that this was going to be a huge problem my first year out, but it seems that it certainly could have contributed significantly to the downfall of an already weak hive.

FYI, to help avoid such confusion...you can select your gender in your profile and it will display along with your other info.... :)

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"We must reject the idea that every time a law’s broken, society is guilty rather than the lawbreaker. It is time to restore the American precept that each individual is accountable for his actions." - Ronald Reagan

Ms. Mouse - I certainly understand your plight - I experienced it first hand for two winters then I decided to treat my hives with apiguard for mites when I found evidence of them last fall. The difference is that the prior 2 winters I lost all three hives with the same looking scenario as you have described - this year I have (as of yesterday) three hives that are thriving and one that was made from a first year nuc split that is cranking along too... yes at this point I'm pretty happy however that's not the point - my point is that I attribute the success of these hives to two things - First - I started with hybrid bees (Italian/Carniolan) purchased in nucs which I believe gave the colonies a big jump start on getting going, next would be the mite treatment in the fall. Those two things I believe made the difference.

One colony that was made from a spring nuc became so strong that I was able to make split and get a hive started at my girlfriends house. I cant think of anything that was done differently that the things listed and I genuinely belive the bees will all make it through the winter (fingers crossed).

Should you want to take a look at my yard just let me know and when you are over this way (near Saratoga) we can have a look and discuss the beekeeping philosophy. I have come to realize that there really is as many different ways to bee keep as there are beekeepers.

Actually first year colonies (packages, NUcs) are as likely to swarm as any other colony provided one determining factor is in play;

The Broodnest is congested.

A congested broodnest can occur regardless of how many empty boxes are on a hive, especially if empties are just stacked on top. It won't work. A beek must practice the art of KYBO in all its various forms to prohibit swarming.

Notice I said prohibit as its quite impossible to completely 'prevent' a colony determined to swarm.

Think about how difficult it is to resist the natural cycle of sex for the majority of lifeforms and you're on your way to understanding honeybee swarming behavior. Our job is to distract them from this "natural" instinct by practicing KYBO (Keeping Your Broodnests Open).

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

...Mostly we have a lot of native meadows, small gardens, and some fruit trees. plus the tiny local graveyard next to us is literally carpeted with thyme ...

Neonics are often used as drenches on fruit trees, making their nectar and pollen toxic for the pollinators.

Even graveyards might use these systemic chemicals to keep pests at bay, and contaminated lavender might well be the cause for your loss. Often the gardening is contracted out to specialist companies. They will use whatever product has got the longest residual time, needing fewer applications and hence less effort by them.

You just might be talking to the choir with all this 'one trick pony' blame it all on neonics stuff. Do you have any advise on how to protect bees and beekeepers from these substances, besides moving our hives to the Poles? And I don't mean just harping on Beeks on bee forums about the dangers of them :-D or even harping on the Manufacturers, they don't care and have told me so, as long as there is money to be made.

Chances are pretty good that most beeks already know plenty about the dangers to their bees from pesticides. But what most all beeks do want to know is how to assist and protect their bees.

Just saying. :)

« Last Edit: March 03, 2013, 06:46:00 PM by T Beek »

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"Trust those who seek the truth, doubt those who say they've found it."

Or it could have been an error by a first year beekeeper. Don't be discouraged by doom and gloom. Learn from mistakes you may have made and give it another go. With having drawn comb you will be off to a faster buildup on your next go around.As T said about the open brood nest,feeding a package is a good thing to a point. If they backfill the broodnest with syrup,there will be no room for eggs.The colony strives to build up to swarm strength as this is the method of expansion of the species. A late swarm very well could have left you with too few bees to raise brood and gather stores. Throw in a varroa laod and things can go badly. Most likely the late swarm was your biggest problem as first year packages usually do not propogate too heavy of a mite load. Year two and three you need to be very diligent. When fall comes you want to be done with syrup feeding by October. Condense the hives down so there is not any empty space such as a half box of empty frames. When late winter comes and the boxes and the boxes are light you may wish to ue a candyboard,fondant or dry sugar to get them through their first brood cycles until natural nectar and pollen sources such as skunkcabbage,maples and dandelions are available. You will have support here at Beemaster whenever you need it!! :)

no one knows the reasons for it, but reports predate most of the things that people insist on getting hysterical about. all the way back into the 1800's.

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.....The greatest changes occur in their country without their cooperation. They are not even aware of precisely what has taken place. They suspect it; they have heard of the event by chance. More than that, they are unconcerned with the fortunes of their village, the safety of their streets, the fate of their church and its vestry. They think that such things have nothing to do with them, that they belong to a powerful stranger called “the government.” They enjoy these goods as tenants, without a sense of ownership, and never give a thought to how they might be improved.....