Featured Quote:"A believer may pass through much affliction, and yet secure very little blessing from it all. Abiding in Christ is the secret of securing all that the Father meant the chastisement to bring us." - Andrew Murray

Methinks your are complicating a very simple concept and in doing so making it very confusing.

For starters may I suggest you go study the OT law to see how the scriptures define adultery, immorality and the law's response to it and then come back to see what Jesus says about it. The Scriptures will define the meanings of these terms and that is what one must go with, not inject our own interpretation.

For starters go to Leviticus 18, 20-21 and Deuteronomy 21 and 22. When you understand the context (under the OT law) in which Jesus lived, his words will make a whole lot more sense.

BTW, there have been many threads on SI dealing with divorce and remarriage: You may want to check those out.

I don't even think what "Bible school" is talking about is "Law" either.

It isnt, not in the context of OT Law. It's "Bibleschool"'s law derived from a gross misunderstanding and misapplication of scripture... which in my mind is even more dangerous.

Krispy

2008/10/3 13:14

bibleschoolMember

Joined: 2008/9/29Posts: 9Global, Europe

Re: Restitution Undone

I perceive restitution is left undone.

You cannot be saved while robbing a bank. While your gun is pointed to the bank cashier, can you be in a justified state?

If you then get saved, would God accept you in his kingdom, while you did nothing to return the money? While you held it in your hand, or while you had the means to repay it - could God accept you, while you withold it thus?

Shall we not say the same when a man has another man's wife? Can he be justified while he thus witholds her, and does not restore her to where she belongs?

We would call it an abomination for a thief to not return what he stole, on coming to Christ. How then can we stop short of coming to the same conclusion, in respect to stealing another man's wife?

Indeed, this is the meaning of a little known sermon of Charles Finney's called SALVATION IMPOSSIBLE TO THE SINNER

You may listen to it here. (It is in fact me who is reading it to you):

[b][size=medium][color=000099]Summary made by Dean Taylor of Early Church Doctrine on Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage 90 A.D. – 419 A.D.[/color][/size][/b]

[i]If a spouse persists in adulterous behavior and there is no other alternative, the marriage relationship can be terminated by the innocent party (Hermes, Clement, Jerome, Augustine).

Spouses that are divorced for any reason must remain celibate and single as long as both spouses live. Remarriage is expressly prohibited (Hermes, Justin Martyr, Clement, Origen, Basil, Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine).

To indulge in lust with the mind is to be guilty of adultery of the heart (Justin Martyr).

The marriage covenant between a man and a woman is permanent, as long as both husband and wife are alive (Clement, Origen, Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine).

It is a serious offence against God to take another person’s spouse (Basil).

The Church must charge all persons who are in possession of another living person’s former husband or wife with adultery (Basil).

Marriage and affection with a remarried spouse while a former spouse lives is the sin of adultery (Hermes, Justin Martyr, Clement, Origen, Basil, Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine).

It is a serious mistake to believe that it is simply one’s right to divorce a spouse and take another. Even though human law may permit such a thing, God strictly forbids it, and cannot, and will not honor it (Clement, Origen, Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine).

All lawmakers, in and out of the Church are warned, to their peril, to hear and obey the Word of the Lord in regard to His commands on marriage and divorce (Ambrose).Christians are to stop making excuses and trying to find justification for divorce and remarriage. There are no valid reasons acceptable to God (Jerome, Augustine).

A marriage is for life. No matter what a spouse turns out to be, or how they may act, what they do or don’t do, or the sins they commit, the covenant remains fully in effect. A remarriage while a former spouse lives is not marriage at all, but sinful adultery. God does not divide the one flesh relationship except by physical death (Hermes, Clement, Origen, Basil, Ambrose, Jerome, Augustine).

Marriage is a lifelong covenant that will never be invalidated by God while both parties live (Hermes, Justin Martyr, Clement, Origen, Basil, Ambrose, Augustine).

It never has been lawful, it is not now lawful, and it never will be lawful to divorce and remarry. To say and do otherwise is to worship and adopt the adulterous superstitions of a different God than the one to which we have to do (Augustine).[/i]

I dont care what any of these men might have said if it doesnt jive with scripture.

Interesting that you quote from Catholic "Saints". That wont get you too far around here.

Some of the things they said are scriptural... but some of them are not. For instance, in scripture if an unbeliever leaves their believing spouse... the believing spouse is "free", meaning free to remarry.

All of the men you quoted from taught false doctrines that eventually led to the false religion of Catholicism... the great whore spoken of in Revelation 17. Why in the world we hold up what they had to say as proof of anything?

I'll stick with scripture. Not every divorce comes with a command to never remarry. There are cases where someone can remarry... in the case of adultry and in the case of a unbeliever abandoning a believer.

Krispy

2008/10/20 8:59

LlewellynMember

Joined: 2005/8/5Posts: 33Windhoek, Namibia

scripture!

Quote:

I dont care what any of these men might have said if it doesnt jive with scripture.

Amen to that.

So also I don’t care what you would say, seeing it doesn’t jive with scripture, sorry I don't want to sound discourteous.

Romans 7 and many other scripture clearly teaches that remarriage is adultery. You would defend an unbiblical concept of remarriage that is ok with me, but make sure you not fighting against God.

One man with God is a majority, remember that.

The sad truth is many people today think in a theological box that they crew up in, God have mercy on us. His word has not changed, Jesus called it adultery and so did the Apostles and the Early Church and the Anabaptist and many other Godly men of old.

“Interesting that you quote from Catholic "Saints". That wont get you too far around here.”

You missed the point; I don’t want to get far around here nor any were. Some of these men are the disciples of the Apostles them self. I suppose you know better then them.

Strange that men would try to justify sin when they should call for repentance.

I can agree that some of those names are questionable. Yet I placed them all up seeing this is an open forum (some are from this back ground some from that) so one will read this post and find him self confronted because those whom he esteems are quoted. Yet I often wonder why it is so easy to disregard these men of faith and not rather your own concepts and understanding. It can be that we have become so proud and self conceited; therefore strife often comes when he that is wrong is too blind to see it.

[b]Matthew 5:31-32[/b] [i]It has been said, Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce. But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, [b]except for marital unfaithfulness[/b], causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.[/i]

[b]Matthew 19:3-9[/b] [i]Some Pharisees came to him to test him. They asked, Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any and every reason? Havent you read, he replied, that at the beginning the Creator made them male and female, and said, For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh? So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate. Why then, they asked, did Moses command that a man give his wife a certificate of divorce and send her away? Jesus replied, Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, [b]except for marital unfaithfulness[/b], and marries another woman commits adultery.[/i]

[b]1 Corinthians 7:15[/b] [i]But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. [b]A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances[/b]; God has called us to live in peace.[/i]

These are obvious exceptions to the rule that both Jesus and Paul (writing under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) give. There is no other way to interpret what it means to be "not bound".

You're putting down a man-made law on fellow believers. It's not a scriptural law by any means.

If a spouse is unfaithful and reconciliation is impossible... divorce is permitted and not held agaisnt the offended party, and they are free from the bounds of that marriage, and therefore remarriage would not be adultry... because they are NOT BOUND.

If an unbeliever leaves the believing spouse (abandonment) then the believing spouse is clearly NOT BOUND (as scripture says) to that marriage. "Not bound" means just that... NOT BOUND... and can therefore remarry.

Period. There really is no debate about it.

Krispy

2008/10/20 12:19

MiccahMember

Joined: 2007/9/13Posts: 1752Wisconsin

Re:

Llewellyn,

I looked up the link you provided and read the "confession of faith". There is a ton of man-made rules installed in place of grace.

I serve the Lord who fullfilled the law. Krispy is right, this is a non-debate.

The scripture says: "And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter. Mar 10:11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, [b]and marry another, committeth adultery against her.[/b]"