Flys-Rangers in review

OK, let’s start with the line brawl. Why? Because the game was pretty bad, because the Flyers were all yapping about wanting to get back at Sean Avery, etc., and how they had to show restraint because they didn’t want to take a penalty.

1) Normally, I’d frown upon what Avery did, taking advantage of a situation to square off against a pacifist during a melee and beating the daylights out of him, including a couple of bonus punches once Matt Carle was down on the ice. Normally. But this is the team that, you know, might have been known to do such a thing once or twice, including last season when that piece of carcillo jackwagon thug pulled Marian Gaborik out of a pile and beat him up and talked about how he was “licking his chops” when he saw the chance to fight Gaborik, and leaving a giant scar on the Rangers’ reeling season at that point.

2) That is one of the best ways to exact revenge. Sort of like the “Untouchables” line by Sean Connery, about, you get one of ours, we get two of yours. If your tough guys are going to fight non-fighters, then turnabout is, to whatever degree, fair play.

3) That was some piece of officiating, where Jody Shelley jumps into the fray, and Brandon Dubinsky jumps onto his back, and where Brandon Prust and Darroll Powe — who started the whole thing — separate from the pile and, gloves off, trade punches … and not a single one of them got a penalty.

4) In fact, the only fighting penalty called was on Avery and Carle. When asked if he’d ever had a fight before, Carle said, “I wouldn’t call that a fight.”

Now, on to the game:

5) I don’t recall ever hearing the Garden so quiet as it was right from the start, particularly for a Rangers-Flyers game. I’ve heard better crowds at Playland for rookie games. Last night, you could hear cellphones ringing in the arena. Not that the Rangers gave them any reason to cheer. Until the third period, this was a game about which Tommy McVie’s famous line might fit: “They should have let everybody in for free and made them pay to get out.”

6) There was some debate on whether the Rangers were outworked or whether the effort was good enough, and coach John Tortorella took issue with such suggestions. He called them “ragged” and pointed out how they put themselves in trouble, again, with penalties. OK. That’s fair. But it sure wasn’t the Rangers’ best effort. And ragged? Yeah, that’s what you might say about two Rangers defensemen (Staal and Girardi) being trapped behind the net for the goal that made it 2-0 moments after a Flyers power play ended. And Steve Eminger doing the Rangers’ signature slide on his belly in an attempt to break up a short-handed 2-on-1, and of course, not stopping the pass, and of course, Mike Richards burying it for a 3-0 lead.

7) I know I harp on that a lot, but I happened to watch Hockey Night Live the other night, and Ken Daneyko was saying how a lot of coaches don’t want their D-men leaving their feet ever, and Mike Keenan saying, threateningly, “if you do leave your feet, you better stop the pass.” The Rangers always leave their feet. And often don’t stop the pass.

8) I am not sure if the benching of Gaborik will achieve its goal. This is a different guy than, say, Vinny Lecavalier or Brandon Dubinsky. I could be totally wrong here. I just don’t know if he will react in a positive way, or if he needs a coach on his side more than a kick in the tail. Maybe he does. Maybe he doesn’t. Maybe it will work. Maybe it will blow up in the Rangers faces. I don’t think Gaborik has been awful. But he needs to score. No, they need him to score. His shot off the post created their only goal in the 1-0 win over Vancouver. His pass to Staal could have given them a chance in Montreal. His shot off the side of the net last night might have made a difference the other way. So it’s not like he’s totally transparent or ineffective. And he’s never going to be a grinder.

9) Those pants Chris Drury wears are embarrassing, all ripped and torn. What, he can’t afford a new pair?

10) With the renovation underway, and some bathrooms boarded up at MSG, there were lines at other restrooms, and I saw a line of angry women arguing with Garden employees between periods. This renovation during the season is not going to be easy.

11) The Rangers are 1-3 since trading Michal Rozsival. Or 1-3 since acquiring Wojtek Wolski.

201 Comments

Doodie, I agree about the spark from Avery’s fight. People can say what they want about the guy, and yes, he was definitely out of control when all that stuff happened in Dallas, but he was completely neutered when he came back in to the league, and mismanaged, and left confused and not really knowing what his role is on this team. He is more of an impact player than he really gets credit for anymore, and it is obvious that he and Torts do not get along. But Torts, needs to just let Sean go out there and be Sean. The guy is a very good player along the boards, and behind the net. We have seen this to be true many times. There have also been many times this year, where he has gone a bit over the line, or gotten in to a fight, and it has sparked the team to a win. I know there are people who love the guy, and people who despise him, I like him, a lot. I think every team needs a guy like him on their team, as long as they are able to play their game. If this was what they had in mind when they wanted to bring him back, they should not have done it at all. Giving him 8 minutes a game, playing with guys who are not finishers, he is not going to really be very effective. Sean is a pretty damn good passer, and should be on a line with at least one person who can finish. Maybe a line of Avery, Gabby, and Dubi. Who knows, but he needs to be allowed to go over the line and do his thing. The team usually kills the penalties that Aves takes.

P.S. I have no problem with his two extra punches last night. I have no problem with it at all. And it is funny that such a deal is being made of it, because when I watch games, especially lately, and you see a fight, watch now many times you see a few extra thrown while a guy is going down, and already down. I especially don’t mind because it was against the Flyers, with their douche of a captain Richards, who after he scores a goal, mockingly bangs the glass with a carcillo eating smirk, in the face of a little kid. Yes, the same Richards who is known around the league as a cheap shot head hunter. Aves might have done that last night, may have sucker punched someone in one fight, but he is not a dirty player. And as far as his mouth goes, BIG DEAL, sticks and stones. You are a grown men, and if you choose to let what another grown man says get to you that much, then you are just as much to blame for getting drawn in to it.

Gaborik is starting to remind exactly of Jagr in his last year here. Now i was and still am 100% convinced Jagr permanently damaged his shoulder when he injured it trying to punch Gomez.

Now Im not saying Gaborik permanently damaged his shoulder as well but the fact that Gaborik’s shot has no zip on it has me concerned. I dont think its an effort problem, its that he is shying away from the front of the net and his shot is not deadly like last season

Always thought that Jagr’s shoulder was really damaged from the Ruutu hit in the Olympics since his shot really disappeared after that. The Gomez punch was probably the last straw. Very frustrating for Gaborik — everything seems to be going wrong for him.

I just realized that mrs and I were sitting 2 rows behind Carp and seeing exactly what he was, and I can’t really say I saw nearly what he did. It’s different when you see on TV, at least for me. I wouldn’t be able to comment nearly as much as he did. I guess that’s why he does what he does.

The fight did spark the team, and I have no problem with Avery fighting Carle at all. He knocked him down with one punch, and it did spark the team. I still think he should stop throwing them when the opposing player is down, playing against the Flyers or the other team. He does it way too often. You don’t want to bring yourself to the level of the Flyers, nor you want to show your young players it’s ok to do it. Not when you’re building your team’s new identity. Prust could’ve beat carcillo out of Powell,but he stopped when there was no resistance. The message was sent either way.

That Italian kid sure is playing some good hockey.
Happy that the BB line was broken up.
This team has no finish(er).
Dubi missed a few. BB missed a few. WW scored but missed on other good ones.
BTW – Staal should not be on the power play.
They need to throw more pucks at the net on the PP – lots of outside passes and no shots.
Love this team.

I’m honestly not that worried. The special teams killed us last night. If we stop one of the PP goals (yes, I know the second was technically not a PP goal but it was the same possession and was scored moments after it expired), score on one of our PPs, or don’t give up the shorthander (Stepan on the point again, really?), it’s an OT game against the best team in the East.

Our PK has been dreadful lately, costing us the last two games. I don’t expect that to last.

The PP, on the other hand, is terminal. They should just practice PP all day the next time they practice. Nothing but PP, and they should have the PK imitate opposing PKs against us, which are very aggressive since our PP is so horrible. Pressure the puck constantly until our PP learns how to take advantage and find the open man/shooting lane.

I also don’t like the throwing at the guy who’s down. Say what you want about Carcillo fighting Gaborik, when Gaborik was down, Carcillo very noticeably stopped throwing. It looked like he really wanted to throw more but showed restraint. Can’t say the same for Avery.

I saw a line of angry women arguing with Garden employees between periods….

wow Carp, thanks for the observation..You probably wont see me this season in the Garden..!!!

Thats too dangerous !!!:)

And yes Mr. Coach it is a big difference between completely outworked and lazy.. And I hope you guys from the press can explain to him in the next press conference..Tortorella will never learn to treat the press and the public in the right way..obviously even the benching of Gaborik will not be very helpful for the team and you dont need to be a psychologist to realize that…!!!

Embarrasing. You should wear those colors with pride. If he has any sentimental value, or thinks there is some kind of superstition attached to those pants, someone better tell him to change them. All the MOJO has been out of those pants for 2 and half years.

Also, I think it was ill-advised to start Biron. We don’t play again until Wednesday. Hank has been our best player. Unlike most of the best teams in the league who start back-ups against us, we needed our best player out there last night. Biron was a little late getting to the second goal, as you see him flick his right pad out after the puck was in the net, and the third, since the dman was on the puck carrier who had no shot, he should have been over on the other side anticipating the puck going there. He was too late and it ended up in the net. I think Hank stops both. In my opinion.

Yea Prust could have pounded that guy… but he saw no punches were coming his way and let off…. Avery on the other hand, had some semblance of a fight on his hands. I don’t mind what he did, just don’t want him throwing at a guy on the ground.

When Carcillo was slapping Gaborik around last year, Girardi took a lot of criticism for not jumping in and defending Gaborik. Can the same be said from the Flyers point of view regarding Jody Shelly not jumping in to defend Carle? Or does Dubinsky get credit for not letting Shelly join the fray? Dubinsky should be our captain!!! Though I still cant believe he missed that wide open net late in the 3rd period.

Give Drury a break….he’s our captain, he’s allowed to wear whatever pants he chooses and only has to play passionate hockey when he feels like it. This is Chrissie’s team and Rangers should be thankful he graces them with his clutchness, night in and night out. He doesn’t have to answer to anyone (except customers at Colony Grill). No goals = no problem.

Anyone else with me on the “we’re playing well at even strength” bandwagon?

The numbers don’t lie. All three goals yesterday were special teams (even if the first two goals were technically even strength). In Montreal, two PP goals and another goal scored 1 second after the PP. Meanwhile, we are 1 for our last 12 on the PP, but have also allowed a shorthander in the span.

i agree, but also look at who we’ve played lately. Montreal, Vancouver, Montreal, Philly. It would have been nice to lose one in OT at least but i’m not worried until we start losing to the bad teams. The Rangers should win at least 3 of their next 5 and pick up points in at least 4 of 5…

Doodie, agreed! In the beginning of the year it was as noticeable because our PK was top notch, even when our PP wasn’t scoring. Now the PP isn’t scoring and we are giving up PP goals and just after PP ended goals, and it is a lot more noticeable.

And say what you will, but when Cally was still in the lineup, and Gabby and Dru were out, we were scoring more goals, and playing better as a TEAM. Now, I am not saying that Gabby makes us worse, but I think some players don’t play AS hard when they have a superstar on their team, and not having our heart and soul right now hurts us as well.

I agree with poster who said that Gaby should be put with MZA and Stepan. MZA is arguably our best offensive player right now…I’ve been watching him closely. He makes something happen almost every time he is out there. Stepan is finishing when he gets the opportunities. Gaby could possibly benefit from a rebound goal or two playing on that line. That could help get his confidence back. You can tell he is not himself right now.

I should say that Gaby is not a very good fit for this team as a #1 offensive threat. His proneness to injury and his current issues make him a liability for this team to depend on. Sather should go after another bonafide scorer (not give up Gaby) so we have another option to go to. Unfortunately, unless a trade is involved, the only guy available in FA is Semin, another guy who does disappearing acts for long stretches of the season.

Those didn’t look like punches to me, neither one really cocked their arm like a punch, it looked like they were pushing him away from the bench.

The whole thing about always having to take away the pass on a two-on-one is BS. Think about it, lets say you have Crosby and Rupp coming in on a two-on-one. Do you want Crosby shooting or would you rather take your chances that 1) Crosby makes a good pass, 2) the d-man doesn’t block the pass, 3) Rupp controls the pass, 4) Rupp makes a good shot, and 5) the goalie doesn’t stop it.

In the first scenario, all Crosby has to do is beat the goaltender – something he’s pretty good at. In scenario two, about five things have to go right to score. I’m not saying you should always make the guy pass in a two-on-one but depending on the situation its not a bad option.

about the crowd, it was even worse than you describe, Carp. I could hear on TV every time Boucher made a save, the crowd would make the philly” Bou” chant, like they do at home. iow, there were plenty of Philly fans in the crowd, and turned a Ranger home game into a Philly home game. It was as embarrassing a crowd as I’ve heard in years at MSG. WTB is goin on?

Gaborik on such and such a line to “get him going”?? NO, he is supposed to be an elite player who makes other players better. And he is not doing that with any line they put him on, so the problem is all on HIM, and if he gets traded, I will not care one bit.

I was at the game last night. The crowd started OK, but giving up the quick goal took the wind out of our sails. By the time they went down 3-0, it got pretty quiet. The Rangers looked listless. How do you get up and yell for that? But starting with Avery’s fight, and especially after the 2 goals, it was pretty raucous.

You’re right Orr…just trying to understand why Gaby can’t get going…Wolski is probably a better fit right now…

This sure isn’t Sweden but MZA has been playing well, hasn’t he? I love his tenacity. At least give him more PP time if he’s not going to QB it. There’s nothing wrong with going with a guy who has been improving with more ice time…There’s no doubt he can play…

Salty, don’t know if that’s the most pathetic in sports history … there were all those clowns hurting their knees and breaking legs jumping on home plate last year, there was the QB who hurt his neck head-butting the goal post pad, Darren Turcotte puncturing an ear drum with a Q-tip, pitchers breaking hands punching things.

But it was probably the most pathetic attempt at a punch in sports history.

JJP, but if you go for the blocked pass and don’t get it, it’s a slam dunk. Like Richards last night. Tell me Lundqvist wouldn’t rather take his chances 1-on-1 vs. Crosby than to know he has to also play the pass and that he’ll have no shot if it gets through? And how many Crosbys are there? I’m pretty sure Biron would have taken his chances with Giroux rather than Richards with a wide-open side.

Outrageous that Fatty Brodeur can tell the refs what to call. The Isles scored on him by bumping him, and he as usual made it look like he was shot, but there was no penalty called, only a goal called. But, then after the goal, the refs listened to the debbies griping, then all 4 huddled and CHANGED the call to no goal, and a penalty on the Isles. I have never seen that. I have seen them huddle to get another opinion on a high stick, etc. but I have never seen them change a goal call after the goal was already called good and allowed, simply because the devils complained.

Why would Drury continue to wear those shorts? It can’t be superstition. Wearing those shorts does not bring him luck. He’s not scoring nightly hat tricks and the team isn’t winning while he’s wearing them.

noticed Drury’s shorts last night. WTB?!?!?!?
maybe they’re his good luck shorts since he hasn’t broken his finger again.

as far as Avery throwing punches, i thought he got a couple in after
carle went down and then stopped before the linesmen got in there.
maybe if i saw the clip again.
of course, it’s hilarious to hear ANY flyer discuss hockey etiquette.
they have such a talented team yet they must be given Neanderthal pills
because they ALWAYS end up acting like complete moronic carcillos.

I personally don’t like what Aves did, mainly because it looked like he knocked Carle out. This isn’t MMA, where you knock someone out, and you’re allowed to throw shots so the ref knows the fight is over.

It’s different than taking someone down where they can still protect themselves.

Doodie: Newbury apparently was 7 for 9 on FOs yesterday. Given the horrible FO numbers the Rangers post too many nights, if he can keep that up, he stays in the lineup until/unless someone else steps up.

Didn’t that used to be another Dreary strength? Besides collect a wad of money every 2 weeks, is that anything Dreary can do well anymore?

If Newberry war really 7 for 9 on faceoffs, we aren’t gonna see Wiese for a while. If we see Newberry come on the ice for a crucial faceoff at the end of the game, just take Drury to the glue factory at that point.

Gus Frerotte of the Redskins injured his head headbutting the goalpost or wall after scoring against the Giants in I believe 1997-1998. That’s the guy Carp is talking about.

And no, Jagr’s was not the worst attempt at a punch in history of sports.

There was Alonzo Mourning and Larry Johnson of the Heat and Knicks in the late 90s who threw punches like a couple of sissies. And then of course, Jeff Van Gundy got in the middle of the scrum like the unprofessional he is.

Did we send the wrong contract to Hartford? And is there any way to do a swap of Drury and Souray? Drury would probably poo-poo it. But maybe he could regain his form in Edmonton, and we could . . . . just take Souray outside and shoot him. Or give him a chance to be our physical Dman. It’s like trading a lump of dirt for a load of crap but it may be a change of scenery that ignites both players.

Souray must clear re-entry waivers in order to play in the NHL again, meaning that the Oilers have to expose him to Re-entry waivers and have nobody put in a claim before he can be dealt. That, and he has supposedly been terrible in the minors this year are all the reason we need not to bother with him.

I would look hard at Kaberle on Toronto and see if we can somehow get him without surrendering a #1 pick or top prospect.

Don’t know if Edmonton would take Drury or if Drury would accept a trade there. He makes more than Souray too. I think we just have to wait until the offseason and endure watching him shamble around the ice until he retires or is bought out then. At least the organization has finally learned that it has to dump the dead weight, by force if need be.

jpg, that is a most awesome find! they should have that for many other players on my list :)

whether you agree or disagree on how Aves handled the fight last night, hearing Philly players and beat writers whine about that kind of stuff makes me too ticked and sick to be thirsty. OK, that’s all for now……

2.Sadly, Gaborick does not fit the system we now have. We could do quite well in a trade. I think we need a scorer who enjoys the cycle and is more power forward than finesse guy ( I know not all agree).

3. I noticed Drury’s pants also. He probably makes a pizza like Poppy.

Are Rangers fans really upset that Richards punched the glass? And you guys call the Flyers and their fans whiners? You might be the softest fan base in hockey if you’re upset about a guy half heartedly punching the glass. Grow up kids. When you guys win a meaningful game against the Flyers at any point, then you can start trash talking the Flyers. Until then know your place and keep supporting Avery and his collection of losers.

There were some who were comparing Gaborik this season to Jagr’s last year here. You can’t make that comparison. Gaby is 10 years younger and can’t use the excuse that he is saving himself for the playoffs…bull-cooke

I don’t get why Rangers fans get so emotional over the Carcillo/Gabby fight. Gabby asked for it, literally. It’s not like Brash*t jumping 18-19 year old Bogosian from behind just because his team is losing.

meant to comment on this earlier….if there’s a ridiculous line at the women’s room because of construction issues that aren’t fairly resolved, and the men’s line is short or moving…..well, all I’m saying is, I don’t put up with that…….:)

LMAO, in that link LW3H posted some guy said:
“I agree that Prust didn’t fight a “lesser” opponent but Prust started all of this by punching Powe in the face and taking a shot at Powe away from the play (see Travis’ recap above), both cheap shots in my opinion. I can’t respect that.”.. and he says:
“It’s just my semi-informed opinion. Prust is not too different than Carcillo if that comparison helps. He has some skill but is primarily an agitator/fighter. He is typically in the top 10 in terms of # of fights/season. He was once traded for Jim Vandemeer!”

seriously we’re whining cuz Richards smacked the glass after scoring? really? who gives a flying carcillo. avery punching guys on the ice isnt something new and it is pretty classless, never see prust do it, boogaard do it, shelley do it, etc. there’s a mutual respect between players and guess what avery doesnt have it. having said that, avery is a spark, and seems to work for the rangers and i agree he should be let loose for a while because that’s when he is effective. 2 goals isnt going to cut it. i also dont think benching Gabby will have the desired effect, i just think it’s an off year for him, and he hasnt been horrible per se.

Gaborik not scoring is Del Zotto’s fault. If he hadn’t partied so hard he got shipped to Connecticut then Gaborik would have someone to pass to him, the power play wouldn’t be so dreadful, and the Rangers wouldn’t have to win 1-0.

Also, no its not a coincidence that the Rangers are 1-3 since Roszy left. He was actually the best defenseman on the power play. I’m suprised that Super Wonderboy Marc Staal is so bad on the point. All Star!

Newbury should go back to CT. Too bad Weise isn’t the answer either. He can’t keep up so he gets a lot of penalties in his limited time.

Holy cow. I was reading one of those Flyers blog sites and they were crying that one of the Rangers must have come off the bench and that’s why Girardi made sure to not be involved … well, I looked at the beginning of that incident and the Rangers had six skaters on the ice for a long time. That’s why you had Prust/Avery/Newbury and Dubinsky jumping in, and two defensemen, Girardi and probably Staal. But they didn’t come on during the fight — all six were on the ice. Check it out. There are three in the offensive zone and three on the defensive side of the red line when the fracas begins.

Carp. Where did everyone go? This is a good team. The goals will come even for Gabby. This a good team and fun to watch. While I have been on record ( big deal) that no trades should be made. Is there anything going in the rumor mill not started on this educated blog.

ok, man have I got some catching up to do…..
the richards thing seems pretty harmless to me..but just an opinion!!

the avery “late punches”..I think aves is well aware of the situation and what he does..extra punches to the caps guy that did the exact same thing to sauer earlier in that game…after the gabby incident last year, why not….He makes everyone on the team play more on the edge when he is allowed to so let him do it!!!

I had no problem with drury in the past (I always have had a problem with his salary), but I agree with most of you he is an absolute shell this season. I hope he naslunds. If not I see a buy out in his future!

I like the way the officials officiated the game especially the rudy poo! I only wish (and thought) a few players deserved fighting majors that did not get them. They let them get chippy..liked it!!

Did dubi jumping on shelley remind anyone else besides me of prucha jumping on the fatso pile from a few seasons ago or nedved jumping back into the pile against the flyers back in the barnaby days??

Carp
I was thinking the same thing about gabby and ice time…maybe he should be getting more to get him going instead of less. If that is not the way he is going to utilized, then I stick by what I said previously…I’d rather have a guy that works hard and throws checks and WILL give you a solid 30 or so goals every season instead of a head case that COULD give you 60.

you know what will get Gabby going? a center to get him the puck. has there been a more disappointing player on the team this season that AA? still the same as he was last season, inconsistent. Stepan has been more than anyone could have asked for, Boyle has been great, and that leaves Anisimov. he should be the lefty center feeding Gabby, but he can’t handle any extra responsibility. so for him to be effective he needs to be on the 4th line, is that what he is? if Anisimov were a consistent player maybe the Rangers would not need a center. but he is not, so they do.

Gaborik needs a cheapie, something that takes a weird bounce and goes in. I think one goal, just one will be enough to get him going. You can see him thinking and trying waay to hard out there. Hopefully, it will start going the right way for him soon.

1 goal in 15 games, no points in at least the last 5. he might be improved in your eyes, to me he is the same player as last season. they need him to step up and play better, otherwise they are going to need a center and he is going to be the one on the 4th line.

Do you like “The late late show with Craig Ferguson” on CBS? i find him very funny and different…

When i used to work for NBC, I met Conan many times and he’s a great, down to earth dude! Very and i mean VERY tall! You don’t realize how tall he is until you actually meet the guy! So, team Coco all the way!

CCCP – I like Craig Ferguson! I havent seen his show in almost a year, but he is indeed very funny and unique.

Conan, on the other hand, not funny at all. His facial motions are just not funny. His licking of his fingers and touching his hair and so on and so forth is just disgusting and disturbing. Glad he’s on TBS and hopefully, nobody watches his RedSox-ican frehley!

I like Ferguson, but his monologue can be really boring at times. But, he always does a great job interviewing the guest. It’s always hilarious.

I saw Conan a few times when he was doing the old late night show. He definitely is tall, and very pale. Love him!

Tik, I thought I said “Golden Globes” last night. If not, I must have forgotten, because when I saw January Jones’ cleavage, that’s all I was thinking aboot. She has golden globes! She’s a babe, for sure! This past season of Mad Men was a little disappointing because she was barely in it.

“There were a few guys yelling at him, but what are we gonna do?” Briere said. “We can’t jump on the ice because then it’s an I don’t know how many games suspension.”

Hartnell said Prust deserved what he got.

“(Prust) was right by our bench,” said Hartnell, whose last suspension came in 2007 on a hit from behind to Andrew Alberts. “I don’t think I touched him. It’s against the rules, obviously, to do that, but to hit (Timonen) like that when he’s in a vulnerable position at the end of the game. It was a cheap play and you expect more from a guy like (Prust). A blindside hit like that when (Timonen) is three feet away from the boards. If we did that to (Marian) Gaborik they’d be throwing a hissy fit, too.”