The media have been telling us for years that Saddam had no WMD, so "Bush's War": was based on a "lie." And those who believed Saddam did have WMD or WMD programs were delusional or worse.

But today, on July 6, 2008, the Associated Press that:

Saddam Hussein had a nuclear program

At the Tuwaitha nuclear complex just south of Baghdad

Which included 550 metric tons (over 1.2 million pounds) of "yellowcake", or concentrated uranium

And multiple devices that could be used in a nuclear weapon.

The AP does not say alleged nuclear program. It does not add "according to military experts." It simply says "Saddam Hussein's nuclear program."

That's pretty big news, isn't it?

For about five years now, those of us who thought Saddam Hussein probably had at least WMD programs, if not WMD themselves, have been called not only wrong, but illogical and insane.

One example was an article by Sharon Begley in the Wall Street Journal titled People Believe a 'Fact' That Fits Their Views Even if It's Clearly False . (Her article series is called, without irony, the "Science Journal".) Ms. Begley reported that "six months after the invasion, one-third of Americans believed WMDs had been found, even though every such tentative claim was discomfirmed [sic]." She cited psychologists to explain this strange behavior. They used terms like "world views" and "mental models."

Jim Lobe at CommonDreams.org (Breaking News & Views for the Progressive Community) reported that "Three out of four self-described supporters of President George W. Bush still believe that pre-war Iraq had weapons of mass destruction (WMD) or active programs to produce them." He went on to quote the director of the polling company as saying

"To support the president and to accept that he took the U.S. to war based on mistaken assumptions likely creates substantial cognitive dissonance and leads Bush supporters to suppress awareness of unsettling information about pre-war Iraq."

These findings on people's beliefs were based on a survey that asked people if they believed Saddam had WMD or WMD programs. Apparently, Sharon Begley, Jim Lobe and a whole lot of other people not only believed Saddam had no WMD programs, but that anyone who did believe such a thing was clearly illogical or insane. In fact, the only interesting question to them was what is wrong with our minds.

Fast forward to today. Now we hear from the Associated Press that "The last major remnant of Saddam Hussein's nuclear program -- a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium -- reached a Canadian port." That last "remnant" was 550 metric tons of yellowcake uranium. That is over 1.2 million pounds of yellowcake! Also, the military had previously withdrawn "four devices for controlled radiation exposure ... that could potentially be used in a weapon." All this was located at "the former Tuwaitha nuclear complex about 12 miles south of Baghdad."

The AP even reminds us that

"Accusations that Saddam had tried to purchase more yellowcake from the African nation of Niger -- and an article by a former U.S. ambassador refuting the claims -- led to a wide-ranging probe into Washington leaks that reached high into the Bush administration."

By the way, is it illogical or insane to think that Saddam could not possibly obtain yellowcake, and did not even try to, because one former ambassador went to one country in Africa and said he couldn't find it there? What about after they found over a million pounds of it just south of Baghdad? Is it now considered reality-based to think Saddam "sought" yellowcake, just as President Bush said in his 2003 State of the Union address ?

Should psychologists study Sharon Begley's brain now that the disconfirmations have been "discomfirmed"? Should the CIA send Joe Wilson to Canada to monitor the destruction of the yellowcake he could not find in Africa?

Should the CIA send Joe Wilson to Canada to monitor the destruction of the yellowcake he could not find in Africa?

Not to pic nits or anything buy it's not being destroyed.

The Iraqi government sold the yellowcake to a Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp., in a transaction the official described as worth "tens of millions of dollars." A Cameco spokesman, Lyle Krahn, declined to discuss the price, but said the yellowcake will be processed at facilities in Ontario for use in energy-producing reactors.

As everyone knew. All of the yellowcake was a remnant of the pre-1991 Iraq program, which was identified and regularly inspected by the IAEA. There are innumerable pre-Gulf War II press articles and documents mentioning it.

This has nothing to do with Joe Wilson. And had nothing to do with the WMD justification for the war.

...and an article by a former U.S. ambassador refuting the claims -- led to a wide-ranging probe into Washington leaks that reached high into the Bush administration."

The AP seems to have forgotten the name of the former U.S. ambassador, not to mention his uncovert CIA wife, but they certainly couldn't forget that there was a probe into the Bush administration. That's the story for them, not that the probe was begun and perpetuated by lies.

Some people on this site are saying this supply of yellowcake was known about for 3 decades. Here's one response from a thread posted yesterday:

"This is not remarkable news- I believe this material was from Tuwaitha and the stockpile there dated back to the late 1970s when Iraq bought Nigerien yellowcake to produce fuel for its Osirak facility - which Israel destroyed in 1979?

After DESERT STORM The UN had the Tuwaitha stockpile pretty much under its observation, if not outright control.

The controversy with Joe Wilson and Niger was over whether Iraq was planning an additional future yellowcake purchase - this did not occur, but plenty of good reporting indicated the prospects were at least explored by Iraq which would have been necessary to establish a secret fuel materiel stockpile not under UN observation, possibly not even in Iraq but possibly in a country cooperating with Iraq (Libya?)"

By the way, is it illogical or insane to think that Saddam could not possibly obtain yellowcake, and did not even try to, because one former ambassador went to one country in Africa and said he couldn't find it there? What about after they found over a million pounds of it just south of Baghdad? Is it now considered reality-based to think Saddam "sought" yellowcake, just as President Bush said in his 2003 State of the Union address ?

Facts don't matter - based solely on our voter registration we're all still insane, and the rehab camps will be open in February of 2009.

14
posted on 07/06/2008 4:20:17 PM PDT
by Old Sarge
(CTHULHU '08 - I won't settle for a lesser evil any longer!)

"The media have been telling us for years that Saddam had no WMD, so 'Bush's War': was based on a 'lie.' And those who believed Saddam did have WMD or WMD programs were delusional or worse."

Pre-war quotes from "lying" House and Senate democrats...

"In 1998, the United States also changed its underlying policy toward Iraq from containment to regime change and began to examine options to effect such a change, including support for Iraqi opposition leaders within the country and abroad.

In the 4 years since the inspectors, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al-Qaida members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001."

"It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein wiill continue to increase his capability to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East which, as we know all too well, affects American security."Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002 Congressional Record  Sen. Hillary Clintonhttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S10288&position=all

John Kerry: I agree completely with this Administrations goal of a regime change in Iraq  Saddam Hussein is a renegade and outlaw who turned his back on the tough conditions of his surrender put in place by the United Nations in 1991. (July 2002)

John Kerry: I believe the record of Saddam Husseins ruthless, reckless breach of international values and standards of behavior is cause enough for the world community to hold him accountable by use of force if necessary.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 U.S. Senate - Ted Kennedy

"When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. I will vote yes because I believe it is the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable." -Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002 Congressional Record  Sen. John F. Kerryhttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S10174&position=all

John Kerry on the floor of the Senate October 2002:

"With respect to Saddam Hussein and the threat he presents, we must ask ourselves a simple question:

Why?

Why is Saddam Hussein pursuing weapons that most nations have agreed to limit or give up?

Why is Saddam Hussein guilty of breaking his own cease-fire agreement with the international community?

Why is Saddam Hussein attempting to develop nuclear weapons when most nations don't even try, and responsible nations that have them attempt to limit their potential for disaster?

The Joint Chiefs should provide Congress with casualty estimates for a war in Iraq as they have done in advance of every past conflict. These estimates should consider Saddam's possible use of chemical or biological weapons against our troops.

John Kerry: I would disagree with John McCain that it's the actual weapons of mass destruction he may use against us, it's what he may do in another invasion of Kuwait or in a miscalculation about the Kurds or a miscalculation about Iran or particularly Israel. Those are the things that--that I think present the greatest danger. He may even miscalculate and slide these weapons off to terrorist groups to invite them to be a surrogate to use them against the United States. It's the miscalculation that poses the greatest threat." (October 2002)

John Kerry: If You Dont Believe . . . Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldnt vote for me. (January 2003)

John Kerry: Saddam Hussein is a brutal dictator who must be disarmed. (March 2003)

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal."..."Iraq has continued to seek nuclear weapons and develop its arsenal in defiance of the collective will of the international community, as expressed through the United Nations Security Council. It is violating the terms of the 1991 cease-fire that ended the Gulf war and as many as 16 Security Council resolutions, including 11 resolutions concerning Iraqs efforts to develop weapons of mass destruction." Sen. John Edwards, October 10, 2002 Congressional Record  Sen. John Edwardshttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S10325&position=all

"There is no doubt that since that time Saddam Hussein has invigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, December 5, 2001http://usinfo.org/wf-archive/2001/011207/epf510.htm

"We should be hell bent on getting those weapons of mass destruction, hell bent on having a credible approach to them, but we should try to do it in a way which keeps the world together and that achieves our goal which is removing the... defanging Saddam.." -Sen. Carl Levin (D, MI), Dec. 9, 2002 Online with Jim Lehrer  Public Broadcasting Servicehttp://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/july-dec02/iraq_12-10.html

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002 U.S. Senate - Ted Kennedy

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..." -Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002 Congressional Record  Robert Byrdhttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S9874&position=all

"When I vote to give the President of the United States the authority to use force, if necessary, to disarm Saddam Hussein, it is because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a threat, and a grave threat, to our security and that of our allies in the Persian Gulf region. I will vote yes because I believe it is the best way to hold Saddam Hussein accountable." -Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9,2002 Congressional Record  Sen. John F. Kerryhttp://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getpage.cgi?dbname=2002_record&page=S10174&position=all

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."-Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002 Congressional Record Sen. Jay Rockefeller

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do" Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002 Congressional Record  Rep. Henry Waxman

It depends on when the yellowcake was bought. I sure it was bought over a period of time but when were the last quantities purchased? Was the whole 550 metric tons known or was there just guess work. Did some of the yellowcake come from Niger after the visit by Joe?

"As everyone knew. All of the yellowcake was a remnant of the pre-1991 Iraq program, which was identified and regularly inspected by the IAEA. There are innumerable pre-Gulf War II press articles and documents mentioning it.

"This has nothing to do with Joe Wilson. And had nothing to do with the WMD justification for the war."

Yes and no. Remember that the administrations claim was that Saddam had SOUGHT uranium in Africa, not that the purchase had necessarily been made.

The fact is Iraq DID buy yellowcake (lots of it) from Africa pre-1991 (in fact, from NIGER), and when, 10 years later, Saddam sent a trade mission to Niger which included nuclear experts, ...only Wilson, Democrats, and the Jurnilists are stupid enough to believe they went there looking to buy peanuts and goatskins.

27
posted on 07/06/2008 4:39:06 PM PDT
by cookcounty
(Obama reach across the aisle? He's so far to the left, he'll need a roadmap to FIND the aisle.)

Ms. Begley reported that "six months after the invasion, one-third of Americans believed WMDs had been found, even though every such tentative claim was discomfirmed [sic]." She cited psychologists to explain this strange behavior. They used terms like "world views" and "mental models."

Here is another psycho-babble term Mizz Begley should be familiar with.

Who the hell cares. The article goes on to say that the removal was done in secret given the U.S. “worried that the cache would fall into the hands of insurgents or Shiites hoping to advance Iran’s alleged nuclear ambitions”.

So Hussein had 550 tons of material that could “also be enriched for use in reactors and, at higher levels, weapons”, 550 tons of it, and we are repeatedly told that they had no WMD.

Surprisingly- I heard it on ABC Radio News today. No caveats or buts or wriggles. They just reported it. I was listening to Bob Brinker’s show, which had some leftoid filling in for Bob, going on about how Congress should tack a huge tax on gasoline, so that we’d all be forced to ‘do the right thing’ and buy more fuel-efficient cars. Because that’s how they do it in Europe you see, the fountain of all that is sweetness and light.

It was really weird to hear sense on the ABC news and nonsense on Brinker’s show. The audience *slammed* Brinker’s fill-in. :-)

31
posted on 07/06/2008 4:42:52 PM PDT
by Riley
(The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)

I couldn’t care less that the Russian nuclear arsenal and the materials and program were all pre-1991 either, they remain a huge issue for the world to be concerned about. What the hell difference does it make WHEN Hussein first secured this material, the facts are HE HAD IT and he could have used it for a nuclear program. Nice try, pal.

I just posted this, in full, to Craigslist politics. Let the hippies mull it over...

They won't. When you hit them square between the eyes with an irrefutable fact that they don't like, their eyes will briefly become unfocused, they'll stare for a moment, then change the subject and begin shouting. I've seen this in in-person arguments over and over again.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

33
posted on 07/06/2008 4:46:09 PM PDT
by Riley
(The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column.)

How about a bit o documentation for your Yellow Cake claims?
IMO this is only the tip of the iceberg re: GD Saddam’s ability to constitute WMD...he was a danger when Israel bombed his nuke plant, when he invaded Kuwait, suborned the UN inspections, gassed the Kurds, etc. Commonsense says there is a lot more to this and we will find out one way or another...see Bekaa Valley & Syria.

That's not true. The CIA group that Plame was associated with thought the idea that Hussein was attempting to obtain (more) yellowcake (from Niger) was ridiculous, justified that by arguing that because he already HAD this huge quantity they couldn't see him wanting more.

35
posted on 07/06/2008 4:49:21 PM PDT
by lepton
("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)

I sure it was bought over a period of time but when were the last quantities purchased? Was the whole 550 metric tons known or was there just guess work. Did some of the yellowcake come from Niger after the visit by Joe?

This batch was pre-1991 (Gulf War round 1). Do keep in mind though, that the U.N. hadn't removed it or allowed anyone else to remove it from Iraq. Keep also in mind that they hadn't made Iraq destroy the special explosives (MDX and RDX) needed to make nuclear weapons that they also had in semi-sealed bunkers (and that they decided to throw a fit about right before the 2004 elections).

37
posted on 07/06/2008 4:57:28 PM PDT
by lepton
("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)

...only Wilson, Democrats, and the Jurnilists are stupid enough to believe they went there looking to buy peanuts and goatskins.

Actually, not even Wilson was. He reported back that the Niger GOVERNMENT said they weren't selling...and also that those same government officials who said they weren't selling were concerned about sales from groups within their country not under their control, and further that Iraqi officials were in fact looking.

39
posted on 07/06/2008 5:00:42 PM PDT
by lepton
("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)

Apparently, Sharon Begley, Jim Lobe and a whole lot of other people not only believed Saddam had no WMD programs, but that anyone who did believe such a thing was clearly illogical or insane. In fact, the only interesting question to them was what is wrong with our minds.

Well I guess that would have to apply to our inept Commander In Chief who apparently doesn't have a clue on how to fight a propaganda war.

"Now, look, I didntpart of the reason we went into Iraq wasthe main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didnt, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction. But I also talked about the human suffering in Iraq, and I also talked the need to advance a freedom agenda. And so my questionmy answer to your question is, is thatimagine a world in which Saddam Hussein was there, stirring up even more trouble in a part of the world that had so much resentment and so much hatred that people came and killed 3,000 of our citizens".

If he wasn't half retarded he would have never said anything remotely like "It turns out they didn't".

The only reason the media have been able to get away with this is because the the administration comes to the propaganda war unarmed.

47
posted on 07/06/2008 5:22:12 PM PDT
by Rome2000
(Peace is not an option)

I'd be very interested to know what the Strategerist's opinion is of why Ambassador Zawahi, Iraq's representative on nuclear issues (VERY passionate arguing for Iraq's nuclear armament at the 1995 NPT Conference), went to Niger on what the IAEA called a trade mission?

Looking at Niger's only significant exports, was Zawahi looking for:

A. Cowpeas? B. Peanuts? C. Goatskins? D. Uranium?

I wonder why the Strategerist believes it was probably A, B, or C?

..or why would the IAEA lie about this?

The IAEA was concerned enough that they investigated and interviewed Zawahi about the trip, though at the insistence of the Iraqi government, the interview was monitored by Saddam's agents.

49
posted on 07/06/2008 5:24:44 PM PDT
by cookcounty
(Obama reach across the aisle? He's so far to the left, he'll need a roadmap to FIND the aisle.)

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