Every time they look poised to make a run at the cup they lose a big part of the team, and then overpay for a replacement.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

Yawningly anti-climatic, and I can't say I'm heartbroken. I've had a good hate on for Pronger pretty much his entire career. Glad he's not really hurt or anything, but I'm just as glad he's not playing anymore.

Can't say I'm really upset for Philly, either. Does that make me a bad person?

Yawningly anti-climatic, and I can't say I'm heartbroken. I've had a good hate on for Pronger pretty much his entire career. Glad he's not really hurt or anything, but I'm just as glad he's not playing anymore.

Can't say I'm really upset for Philly, either. Does that make me a bad person?

Not at all. I've always hated Pronger as well, but nobody can deny the impact he had on every team he has played for. Sad to see a career end like that unless it were someone like Matt Cooke. Being in the East, good for us that he won;t be playing. Don't feel bad for Philly what so ever, however. I actually think the state they are in is kind of hilarious.

I just wonder if he will be forced to retire, or if they will let Philly keep paying him to basically avoid the cap hit for 4 years much like Boston got to do with Savard.

I'll be kind of rotted if the flyers are allowed to just keep him on LTIR. His contract would take him until he is 43, so if the league allows it, the flyers dodge a huge bullet ion terms of a cap hit. At least Savard's contract would have expired while he was still in his 30's. But no way Pronger would have played until 43.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

I've always hated Pronger as well, but nobody can deny the impact he had on every team he has played for.

My thoughts exactly.

As someone - can't remember who - once said, he took crap teams and made them great.

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard

Pronger didn't do anything worse than what Chelios had done in his career. As others have mentioned, he made the teams he was on better and carried a couple of them on his back to the Finals.

I'm surprised Holmgren said that. It's a pretty obvious thing but it's not like Pronger had announced retirement or anything. He'll never play hockey again but hopefully his symptoms improve so he lead a mostly normal life and enjoy spending time with his kids. Last I heard his symptoms sounded awful.

As someone - can't remember who - once said, he took crap teams and made them great.

Truth. Look what happened to the last 3 teams he stopped playing for. Literally went from Stanley Cup finals appearances (and in the Ducks case, a cup) to not even making the playoffs right after. Hate to admit it, but he is definitely a top dman of his generation.

"The more I know about people - the better I like my dog." - Mark Twain

"A wise man once told me, ‘Don’t argue with fools. Cause people from a distance can’t tell who is who'." Jay Z, Takeover

"When I was looking for a captain, I wanted a guy with the Red Wings crest tattooed on his chest," said former Detroit coach Jacques Demers, who named Yzerman captain in 1986. "Steve Yzerman was that guy."

“Told him if he wasn't ultra-competitive he couldn't come here. If he didn't bring it every day he couldn't come here, because he was going to hate it if he didn't, dislike the coach and dislike playing here.

“It's real straightforward. If you don't do it right, you're not happy here." Babcock

Pronger didn't do anything worse than what Chelios had done in his career. As others have mentioned, he made the teams he was on better and carried a couple of them on his back to the Finals.

I'm surprised Holmgren said that. It's a pretty obvious thing but it's not like Pronger had announced retirement or anything. He'll never play hockey again but hopefully his symptoms improve so he lead a mostly normal life and enjoy spending time with his kids. Last I heard his symptoms sounded awful.

True, but Chelios evolved. Pronger stayed an SOB. Some people like that, I get it. I never appreciated him.

True, but Chelios evolved. Pronger stayed an SOB. Some people like that, I get it. I never appreciated him.

I don't think Chelios evolved . He just got too old to really get away with the crap he used to do early in his career. He would've had his ass handed to him in a fight.

Honestly in his career Chelios did some worse things than Pronger, but I'm handicapping it for the era. I hated when the Wings played against Pronger but I would've loved to have him on the team. The guy was a beast and a great puck moving D-man. He would've been awesome on the Wings.

Here's a question - can he stay on LTIR now that Philly has announced this or will the league force him to officially retire and burden the Flyers with his cap hit? Seems like a bad move on the part of Holmgren.

I don't think Chelios evolved . He just got too old to really get away with the crap he used to do early in his career. He would've had his ass handed to him in a fight.

Honestly in his career Chelios did some worse things than Pronger, but I'm handicapping it for the era. I hated when the Wings played against Pronger but I would've loved to have him on the team. The guy was a beast and a great puck moving D-man. He would've been awesome on the Wings.

I beg to differ - I think Chelios was more than capable of being a badass when the Wings signed him; I just think Scotty required him to play a cleaner game. Granted, it's all conjecture, but the man was in awesome shape.

Can't wait to read the "Phoenix: I still think it's a hockey market" chapter of Gary Bettman's autobiography. I'm guessing it's going to be chapter 11.

Here's a question - can he stay on LTIR now that Philly has announced this or will the league force him to officially retire and burden the Flyers with his cap hit? Seems like a bad move on the part of Holmgren.

I beg to differ - I think Chelios was more than capable of being a badass when the Wings signed him; I just think Scotty required him to play a cleaner game. Granted, it's all conjecture, but the man was in awesome shape.

That's why I wondered why Holmgren said that. Seems stupid on his part. And weird that he randomly says it now. There must be some reasoning behind the timing.

Chelios was definitely in great shape. But the league was changing, fighters got bigger and he got older. He was 36 when he came to the Wings and racking up a growing list of injuries. Pronger's last suspension was as a 34 year old, before he was on the Flyers. When he played in Philly he was still mean but the end of his career looked a lot like Cheli's.

To me they're very much cut from the same cloth. Agree to disagree I guess.

Pronger didn't do anything worse than what Chelios had done in his career. As others have mentioned, he made the teams he was on better and carried a couple of them on his back to the Finals.

I'm surprised Holmgren said that. It's a pretty obvious thing but it's not like Pronger had announced retirement or anything. He'll never play hockey again but hopefully his symptoms improve so he lead a mostly normal life and enjoy spending time with his kids. Last I heard his symptoms sounded awful.

But... but... but... Chelios never did anything against the WINGS. At least not, you know, like... at the END of his career.

I've always detested Pronger, but that was as a hockey player playing against my team. I still hold some of his antics against us against him, but again, that's on the ice.

Off the ice, I hope he feels better and can live without pain.

I fully agree that this was stupid of Holmgren to mention this, but technically it doesn't change anything. Pronger is still on LTIR since he's physically unable to play.

If he was feeling better and his symptoms were gone, then there might be an issue if they kept him on LTIR because they felt that he had missed too much time and that he wouldn't be good enough to compete or if he just wanted to retire but didn't announce it so that he could keep getting paid without counting against the cap.

Since that's not the case, LTIR is still a valid option that no one can really argue. He's definitely injured and it's definitely long term.

For me, the thing with Pronger - and not with, say, Chelios - is that he seems like a really epic ******. So many examples that it'd be almost silly to cite any. I mean, it is sorta common knowledge, isn't it?

"If I were to wish for anything, I should not wish for wealth and power, but for the passionate sense of the potential, for the eye which, ever young and ardent, sees the possible. Pleasure disappoints, possibility never. And what wine is so sparkling, what so fragrant, what so intoxicating, as possibility!" - Kierkegaard