However they are very popular in the current gaming community, because of the competition they create between players. A company such as Blizzard has taken the idea, and incorporated it into their game. This has created many high-stacks tournaments, to the point where thousands of dollars are on the line. To think...

Originally Posted by FuxieDK

PvP is a side-game, intended as a time-sink, NOT as a primary part of the game.

Is simply ignorant, and you cannot accept it into World of Warcraft. What might have started out as a community created content, it has clawed its way to making a name for itself. A good example is the current content of Pet Battles. It is quite literally a side-game, and with the interest rising, Blizzard is creating more content for the minority of users, who currently use the Pet Battle system.

Most players? NO WAY..
Most players never step into a BG or Arena, and PvP servers are BY FAR outnumbered by PvE, and more and more PvP servers are converted to PvE for every expansion...

true.. alot of people dont care about pvp.. just the ones who are actually good at the game. i dont care if that's an inflamatory statement it's true..killing dragons is not as hard knowing how to arena at a decent level, period.

OT - this is a horrible season.. filled with bads relying on instant cc, over-powered damage classes and retarded comps. playing over 2k is a nightmare unless you're playing with R1's or running god comp.

So, by reading these answers basically the idea of many is that yes, PvP is an utter disgrace, but we shouldn't care about it since there's still PvE.
A great line of reasoning.
MoP looks really like the best WoW expansion ever...

It is the whole " I am apart of this side, so I hate you without understanding you!" is how I view it. Coming from someone who raided in classic from Molten Core - AQ40, Kara - Sunwell, I can see both sides, but I understand why some do not.

If you look at games such as League of Legends, Call of Duty, and anything of the such you will see PvP. However those are newer games, and World of Warcraft is much older in the gaming community.

Call of Duty came in 2003, before World of Warcraft. It's also an FPS, a genre which at least half the point of which is to shoot human opponents, beginning with for example Doom. League of Legends is also a continuation of DotA, a PvP enhancement for WC3, which also came in 2003, before World of Warcraft. LoL is also only for PvP.

You can't compare an MMO with an FPS or a game such as LoL, and also, neither of the games you mentioned are "newer games."

things worked out better than we had planned • now everything's ruined, yeah

Call of Duty came in 2003, before World of Warcraft. It's also an FPS, a genre which at least half the point of which is to shoot human opponents, beginning with for example Doom. League of Legends is also a continuation of DotA, a PvP enhancement for WC3, which also came in 2003, before World of Warcraft. LoL is also only for PvP.

You can't compare an MMO with an FPS or a game such as LoL, and also, neither of the games you mentioned are "newer games."

The core concept of Player vs Player is what I was using with those examples.

People just bot in random BGs because they know it's a waste of time just to get to the next tier of Arena.

If people could AFK bot through randoms to get to LFR i'm sure they would do that too, then again they might just make a long series of dailies to combat that.

This is why I don't sub for the first tier, whatever is the easiest way to get gear, is the most exploited. People can AFK for gear with bots? PVP it is! Therefore no money for blizzard, they need to figure out if they want to ban bots or have players play.

I am really sorry but I just can't accept when someone says there always were bots and will be, this is not something players should deal with and just get over it, but it's Blizzard's job to fix this finally someday, because this is exactly what you're paying your sub for and they are not delivering, that's just how it is.

I understand your point, but that is NOT what you pay your subscription for. Take a look at the EULA and you'll notice.
Besides I still believe that Blizzard is doing a lot to prevent botting, but it's a fight that's hard for them to get an upperhand in. It's like IT security, developers need to fix every possible possibility at exploiting or hacking, the hackers only need to find one hole.
In this case the moment they find out how they can disrupt a certain bot and start the banhammer, then the next iteration of the bot is coming and it all starts over...
Try to see it as the struggle it is, instead of something that can simply be fixed. There is no way they can, unless it will become very intrusive and make BG's unplayable for the real players.

Only reason for random BGs is for afkers and bots. Think about it, they could easily make an entry arena system with a gear ilvl limit that took accord of your gear in all your storage areas.

But they choose to have a free for all where any bot and afker can sign up, so they obviously want people to bot and afk, they don't do much to discourage it. You can go into any BG at off hours and find 5-10 bots no problem within 2-3 queues. They can't seem to do this? Yeah right..

When someone is on auto follow for 20 minutes in a row, chances are they are a bot. If someone has 0 0 0 0 0 stats all across at the end of a round, chances are they are a bot. But they have to "investigate" riiiight. Of course. Have to investigate why someone has been playing for 4 hours and has accomplished nothing in a BG. Then give them a 3 hour afterwards. They only gained about 48(45) hours of free PVP for a 3 hour penalty, why wouldnt people bot?

People said PvP was the future, back in '97 when Ultima Online was released..
Guess what.. They were wrong then, and they are wrong now..
Coop is the way of MMOs, not PvP..

Every time, Blizzard focus on a PvP issue, they focus on (maybe) 10% of the players needs.. When they focus on PvE issues, they focus on 99% of players needs.

99 > 10...

Following that logic, Blizzard should stop making raids, because even less people are doing them, especially heroic modes. Yet raids are main focus of this game.

Besides, your made up statistics are rubbish, it's hard to find a player on armory with less than 1k honorable kills, that means that vast majority of player base is joining random BGs from time to time.

Note: I no longer play World of Warcraft, but I keep in touch with friends that play competitive PvP. For various reasons, PvP has dissolved as any kind of metagame, and turned into more of a nuisance.

I will detail the reasons in several categories.

Arenas
The first, and initially, only way competitive PvP came to place. You could argue, due to WoWs PvE nature, Arenas are normally balanced. However, beginning with Season 11, several catastrophic mistakes with the way the MMR works, arena activity is currently dead. This coupled with the fact that is too little to achieve, bumped with the abnormal difficulty in simply achieving the T2 gear, is unfortunately what brings it to it's current state.

Cross Realm PvP
Serving little more purpose than to harass people not interested in PvP, it makes you wonder...

Rated Battlegrounds
Arguably the only PvP that is enjoyable right now, it does suffer from the terrifying class balance, but with a good weekly group, it is more forgiving to get T2 gear than the broken state of Arenas.

Random Battlegrounds
Bots. Bots everywhere.

It is from the perspective of a former 2400+ PvPer, but what do you guys think of PvP as endgame content now?

Your post just made me burst out laughing. You could never argue that arenas have ever been truly balanced. Normally balanced? I guess you never did arena during all of TBC. Hilarious. Arena is not dead, RBGs are just more popular because they are better. Too little to achieve? What the Hell? There's the same to achieve as there's always been. Getting arena gear is not the most difficult it has ever been. What a bizarre statement.

Cross realm PvP? What's that? It makes you wonder if you're talking about world PvP and then I'd laugh again.

RBGs don't have "terrifying" class balance. The RBG class balance is the best it has ever been. Arenas are not broken.

There have always been bots in random BGs. Things are no worse. If anything, they are better than the nightmare days of TBC AV farming.

What do I think of PvP? Same as always. What do I think of your post? Severely uninformed and hilariously ignorant.

You no longer play the game, yet you feel you're allowed to make a post stating that PvP has collapsed...

What?

PriestWarriorPaladin
You are not your role. You are not how much gold you have on your account.
You are not the mount you ride. You are not the contents of your bank.
You are not your epic purples. You are not a special and unique snowflake.
You are the all-grinding, all-farming crap of Azeroth.

From the #1 Cata review on Amazon.com: "Blizzard's greatest misstep was blaming players instead of admitting their mistakes.
They've convinced half of the population that the other half are unskilled whiners, causing a permanent rift in the community."

Note: I no longer play World of Warcraft, but I keep in touch with friends that play competitive PvP. For various reasons, PvP has dissolved as any kind of metagame, and turned into more of a nuisance.

I will detail the reasons in several categories.

Arenas
The first, and initially, only way competitive PvP came to place. You could argue, due to WoWs PvE nature, Arenas are normally balanced. However, beginning with Season 11, several catastrophic mistakes with the way the MMR works, arena activity is currently dead. This coupled with the fact that is too little to achieve, bumped with the abnormal difficulty in simply achieving the T2 gear, is unfortunately what brings it to it's current state.

Cross Realm PvP
Serving little more purpose than to harass people not interested in PvP, it makes you wonder...

Rated Battlegrounds
Arguably the only PvP that is enjoyable right now, it does suffer from the terrifying class balance, but with a good weekly group, it is more forgiving to get T2 gear than the broken state of Arenas.

Random Battlegrounds
Bots. Bots everywhere.

It is from the perspective of a former 2400+ PvPer, but what do you guys think of PvP as endgame content now?

1- arenas always have a team setup which is better than the rest

I don't understand why people always think the game is going to balanced when an expansion is released, it never is....But they are doing a number of class changed come next patch to balance it more out, like they usually do (besides like last expansion where mages avoided change)

2- agree to a point, my only problem is high levels camping the entrance/exit of zones, I haven't leveled anyone in mop but I have heard of the douche bags doing this. (I also hate the battle.net friends being able to cross server cause of them being able to cause shit, then drop group and you can't do anything to them)

3- RBGs, I personally haven't really done these but sadly I don't hear of too many team doing them in my server but do hear they are nice.

4- random BGs aren't as filled with bots as you think, I maybe see 1 or at most 2 bots in a match, know what you do? report them (maybe threaten them if they are at the pc ) and move on, its super annoying ya but blizzard can't be watching everything themselves they need people to point out others breaking the ToS.

Most players? NO WAY..
Most players never step into a BG or Arena, and PvP servers are BY FAR outnumbered by PvE, and more and more PvP servers are converted to PvE for every expansion...

Cool story bro, at the moment that I'm writing this there are 12 English EU servers with Full population and only 2 of those are PVE servers.
Also there are 42 PVE servers and 57 PVP servers, so I guess you're statement is incorrect.

Cool story bro, at the moment that I'm writing this there are 12 English EU servers with Full population and only 2 of those are PVE servers.
Also there are 42 PVE servers and 57 PVP servers, so I guess you're statement is incorrect.