Interviewee: Theresa Mastrangelo

Date: 3/18/04

Tape # 87

Interviewer: Diana Jules

Place: Tulare
County, CA

Place of Interview: The home of Theresa Mastrangelo

PLACES
WHERE INTERVIEWEE LIVED DURING 1941-1946

Visalia, California

OUTSTANDING
POINTS IN THE INTERVIEW:

Curfew of "aliens" during World War II

Visalia history

Flooding

Patriotism

DJ: This is March 18, 2004 and I am interviewing Theresa
Mastrangelo. We are doing it in Visalia for the
Tulare County Library. The project is
the "Years of Valor, Years of Hope: 1941-1946. Theresa, could you tell me a little bit about your family background?

TM: Well, I was born here in Visalia from
immigrant parents, Italian. They were
married here in the United
States. My father John
(Giovanni) Lombardi served in the First World War and he volunteered, by
the way, in that war and then married my mother, Lena (D’Olivo). There were
three children in our family, my brother Renato,
myself and a sister Eleanor (Simon).
We grew up during the Depression. I only
remember the late 30’s and early 40’s and of course the war broke out in
1941. I was a sophomore in high
school. I think I was about 15 at the
time. Of course it was a terrible
tragedy here to hear about Pearl Harbor. I remember I saw in your notes there that you
wondered where a person was at the time. I remember I was playing out in the back yard on Sunday morning and
heard that Pearl Harbor had
happened. I really didn’t know what to
think at that age, but I knew it wasn’t good. Then later on I continued to go on to school. There were VictoryGardens and
victory work, where they let us out of school if you were 16 by that time and we
worked at the local cannery. The girls
in our class were all lined up and we did fruit and worked for the canning and
so on.

DJ: And for the younger generation, why did they
call it VictoryGardens?

TM: I don’t know, I think it was towards
victory. This was helping the community
towards the victory of the war. It was
very stylish to do it. Maybe that isn’t
a good word to use, but the girls all wanted to participate. It was good for the economics of it too.

And then
of course during the war, my brother Renny was old enough to go into the war. It
was 1943 that he went in and he was in the Battle of the
Bulge over in Europe, in Belgium in 1945. He was injured very seriously. He was shot through the face and the bullet
extracted near his jugular vein on the side and it was a very trying time. The telegram from the Army was delivered to
the house the same time that my mother was receiving her citizenship papers at
the courthouse. I remember getting
notes from the Adjunct General,I remember that term

– on his
progress of getting well. He finally was
moved to England and
then to the United States to
repair. Of course it was a terrible
injury. The bullet went through his
mouth and came out. Luckily he was
saved. They thought it was miraculous
because it missed his jugular vein just by a fraction. And he lived to be 70. The only bad part was that he contracted,
they think through the plasma he received, Hepatitis C. But he lived a very normal fruitful life for
the rest of his life until he was 70 and we’re thankful for that. But he never regretted any of that. He thought his duty to the country was
justified and I was proud of him for that. My mother fretted and fretted of course. We corresponded and he kept us informed of moving through and going
overseas.

DJ: When he was gone, what did all of you do
back here?

TM: How did it affect us? Well, of course, going to school and then for
enjoyment there was a Sierra Ballroom that was here at the time that all the
teenagers attended. The soldiers from
the local Sequoia Field would come in. They were young cadets and very interesting. And we all enjoyed. They danced with us. I was 15-16. My mother allowed us to go to the neighborhood ballroom and that was
exciting. We never got involved with any
of them, but some of my older friends did marry some of the cadets out
there. They were so handsome you
couldn’t believe. At the impressionable
age that we were, of course they were soldiers, you know. I don’t know that they had anything else for
teenagers at that time.

We had rationing. Food was rationed. Sugar and gasoline, of course, was
rationed. Coffee I believe. They issued stamps and you could go and buy
your allotment. We did not suffer from
any lack of food at any time but they did ration, because so much of the
commodities were going overseas and that sort of thing. I think that was what the rationing was all
about.

DJ: Did most people in Visalia grow
their own vegetables?

TM: Yes. Of course, coming from an ethnic background, my folks always had a
garden. They grew tomatoes and peppers and squash and eggplant. Things like that. My father worked at the warehouse, the local
cannery. His job was always in the
warehouse there, where they canned the food and then moved it out.

DJ: Was that in Visalia?

TM: Yes, it was Visalia Cannery. I think that’s what they called it. My mother was a homemaker. She was not a citizen. My father was a citizen because he enlisted
in the First World War and immediately became a citizen. Usually those that married, then their wife
became a citizen. But my parents married after 1923, so that did not happen for
my mom.

She was
an alien during World War II. They had a curfew for the Italians and the Japanese
and the Germans. I don’t know of any
German community here at that time. Anyway, my mother was . . . she dreaded that horribly. She dreaded the curfew and then there was
uncertainty about whether they would go to a camp. She was very fretful over that, but I do want
to comment about how badly she worried. The Japanese left from Visalia, I
don’t remember myself, I was in school, but they were all evacuated and she
watched this and she thought, "Oh my, if they do that to the Italians, my three
children will be left here." My dad
wouldn’t be able to go. So one day I
came home from school and she was sewing frantically and crying. I asked, "Why are you crying?" And she said,
"Well, I thought I would make you kids some extra clothes so if I’m gone you
would have something." Isn’t that sad? It so happened that they did not intern the
Italians.

DJ: That’s good.

TM: Yes. There
is another little thing. My sister and I
were little scoundrels. There was a
skating rink down the road and we would wait until 8:00 p.m., curfew time, and then we’d scoot down to the
skating rink. We knew she couldn’t come
down and get us. Isn’t that awful? We do recall that. As mothers do, they overlook things like
that. But anyway, that’s what we did.

Let’s see, what else can I say? My brother came home and that was very
touching. We found out that the letters
from the general, the War Department, kept saying that he had face wounds. We
had no idea what kind of wounds, but then when he came home it was okay because
he had recovered. It was okay.

DJ: The anticipation must have been intense.

TM: Oh yes it was. I remember all our girlfriends. We lived on Bridge
Street, east there, what would be south of
town, and the park was there where the convention center is now. There was a big Hyde
Park there. Everybody
congregated there and someone happened to see my brother. The National Bakery lady, Anna Ziegler, was our friend and she saw
my brother go by the store and she phoned and said, "Renny’s coming!" And everyone ran out and met him at this
park. It was exciting. And really we weren’t restricted. The community wasn’t restricted. I had no discrimination
that I knew of. Maybe some of the others
did, but I don’t recall any.

DJ: You mentioned that there was no Japanese
community. Was there an Italian
community in Visalia?

TM: Well, yes, but they didn’t colonize. They were spread out throughout the
area. I didn’t mean to mention about the
Japanese community. I’m sure there was a
large Japanese community because the evacuation train was cars long. They came from Hanford and all
the surrounding counties. Well, Dinuba
is in TulareCounty, but
they came from KingsCounty I think
and then Dinuba and that area, so that was a large ranching community for the
Japanese. That’s where they lived. And there on Center was a Chinese settlement and some of the Japanese lived
there. Our very good friend today, Roy
Sumida, was from the Sumida family that had the general store there on Center
Street, and that was quite a center
for merchandise during my father’s time.

DJ: So you’ve seen Visalia change
a lot.

TM: Oh my, have I ever. Especially during the last 15 years, it’s
been tremendous. Tremendous growth.

DJ: So if you could go back to those years, the
war years, you’ve described a little of Visalia. Could you tell me a bit more?

TM: I remember it as maybe 5,000 people and now
it’s 100,000. It was a very small
community. I can remember going downtown with my skates. I used to run a little errand business for my
aunts and other people that wanted something from downtown. I’d put on my
skates and go downtown and I could skate through some of those stores and
nobody bothered me. It was a very small
community and then Main Street was
from about Bridge to, oh, I would say West
Street. And that’s where the buildings
ended and the rest was residential, beautiful homes. Of course the high school was further down
and I’d walk the ten blocks to and from school and then coming home in the
evening we would come through Main
Street and see our friends. It was a very homey place. I practically knew everyone in town. The sales people were there for years on end,
as compared to now. Every time you go to your favorite store you see someone
new nowadays. It was a very nice community. I remember salespeople calling us
that certain things came in, "Would you like to come in and see the clothes
that came in?" And things like that.

School was the same way. I graduated with the class of 1945 and the
one thing the war affected us was the boys were all away during my four years
of high school, because 1941,1945, when I graduated, those were the war years
and all the boys that were old enough were off at war.

DJ: What age was old enough?

TM: I don’t know. Some of them enlisted. I would
think 18, but that wouldn’t fit, would it? When I graduated I was 17. Well, maybe my class, the ’45 class, those
boys went to service. It was very fashionable, or whatever word you want to
use, to enlist because of the war effort and everyone was very patriotic, hoping
that the war would end soon. The things
that happened during the war were terrible. The news wasn’t anything like it was today, but the papers carried the
news of the Germans and the Holocaust and all that sort of thing. I remember that was very bad. Everyone followed their own family in the
service and they issued flags for how many children you had in the service. The stars indicated how many children were in
the war effort from that family. You
hung it proudly in your window.

DJ: So it sounds very different than the way
things are today.

TM: Yes.

DJ: Did people take the initiative to slander
the President during these war years?

TM: Heavens no. No one ever thought of doing such a thing. I remember when President Roosevelt
died. We were devastated in school. They shut the class down and everyone was
crying and carrying on, and during his funeral and everything. We kept being informed and everyone was very
sad that we lost our President. The
first part of the war, he was the Grand Chief and no one slandered him
ever. You never even thought of it. Later on they did. They made comments on how the war should have
gone on. But no, it isn’t like it is
today. Whenever we have these
discussions, I always tell the person I’m talking to that we’ve lived too long
so we have something to compare. Those years
as compared to what is going on now. It’s hard to adjust to it when you’re used to thinking one way. Of course some of our thinking has changed as
we have progressed. Basically it’s the "great
generation" that was patriotic and serving our country.

DJ: Well, that is favorable, definitely. To shift a little bit, I know the dam wasn’t
built yet up by Three Rivers. Could you
tell me a little about flooding in Visalia?

TM: Oh yes, I can tell you a lot about the
floods. The first one was in ’45 that I
remember. What we enjoyed, my sister and
I, was that we didn’t have to go to school. So we plowed through the streets in our boots and went around the
neighborhood. I think we had three feet
of water in our yard and we had the basement filled and we lost a lot of our
canning things, and mementoes too. We
had a trunk down there that got flooded, pictures and other things that we had
in storage down there. Let’s see, the
last flood of course was in Visalia, I’m
sure you’ve seen pictures of it. The water was down the middle of Main and I
remember on Garden Street, south of
where the park is now, on Garden
Street, the Mill Creek went through
and it flooded. All those stores had a lot of water. At least 3 or 4 feet. Then
the ’55 flood, the same thing happened again, so it was before the dam went
in. After that we didn’t have the
flooding.

DJ: Did it seem common to have excess water
every year?

TM: Oh yes, we dreaded it, because when it rained
for days on end we’d think oh goodness, here we go again and it did. CameronCreek flooded
desperately. They had six feet of water
in places.

DJ: Where is CameronCreek?

TM: CameronCreek, oh I
think it’s Packwood Creek. I think Cameron
goes into Packwood, I’m not sure. It was
out in that area in back of Packwood, way east. I kept thinking. We heard the radio announcement say
that. We were down here north of where
they were talking and they said they had six feet of water, and I told my
mother we were leaving. Six feet of
water is up here. We went over and stayed with my sister at that time. That was in ’55.

DJ: During those first flooding years, did many
people leave or just stay?

TM: No, they stayed. You mean, evacuated during the flood? Well those stayed when the water wasn’t too
high in their homes. Some of them had 18
inches. Well, the silt and all ruined
the furniture. I remember my mother had
rugs laid, this was three or four months before. This was at Christmas time, I think. She said,
‘I’m going to stay here and keep the water out and keep my rug from getting
spoiled." Needless to say with three
feet of water, the basement filled, the furnace went out and we had stucco
walls, lathe and stucco, and by the time we came back six days later it looked
like the walls were damp. The water was
not inside in the home because it had three steps up, but the moisture from the
basement affected the house. But the rug
was okay. However, the furnace went
out. So that was the flood years. But, you know, I don’t think people decided
to move out just because of the water. At least I wasn’t aware of it.

DJ: It’s interesting because now, if there is
some kind of natural disaster, there will be government help.

TM: Yes.

DJ: Do you recall anything like that?

TM: I don’t recall anything like that, no.

DJ: So the businesses just . . .

TM: Absorbed what came to them. Yeah, they took the loss.

DJ: What about in TulareCounty,
employment or unemployment. What was
that like when you were in high school?

TM: They did have unemployment. People worked out in the fields, but there
was always the winter months, that were always lean. In the later years, maybe in the late 40’s I
guess, I remember unemployment compensation. I was going into the work market then and I
remember the employment office. The
people went to get unemployment, but it was nothing like it is now. What do they call it now?

DJ: Welfare?

TM: No, not welfare. Anyway, it’s the same as unemployment, but I
think they call it something else. Maybe
it is unemployment. Anyway, the amounts
were very small. Just barely enough to
keep people going. Other than that, the
employment was, I don’t recall anything very desperate. Maybe I was too young to realize. I had no trouble getting a job. I graduated
from High School and I walked down Main
Street and there were several people
asking me to come to work, so it was okay for me. I always say that if you are looking for
work, people know it and there are openings. And so, the day I came home, graduated from high school, the last day of
school I should say, there was a dress shop that was hiring and I went in and
got me a job as a sales clerk that day. And then I went to work for the credit
bureau after that. It was in the Bank of
America building and I did typing. From
there, I went on to the Welfare Department and was there for 36 years. I was in the clerical end of it. I didn’t do
social work, but I was exposed to the social work, of course. And that’s about it.

DJ: How do you think the World War II years
affected TulareCounty, at
least the way it is now? Maybe the
people who are still here from the World War II years or just any way that it
affected TulareCounty?

TM: I don’t recall anyone from the people that
lived here during the war. Of course
they are gone now. They are too
old. They’re either dead or very old. I don’t believe they relocated. I think Tulare County just maintained. To me,
I don’t recall anyone moving. At least, all our relatives and acquaintances
remained here. They’re still here. Those that were older are gone, they’ve
died. I don’t know; it was a community
of stability I think. Those of us that
are left here wonder what is going to happen with all the incoming
population. It’s really different
because as I said before, I remember when there were only 5,000 people
here. Giddings was the end of the town.
Everything west of Giddings was farmland and dairy land. Everything south of Walnut was dairy land or
farmland: grapes and cotton clear to Tulare. A lot of that is gone to redevelopment. My husband and I are both born here, in fact,
just down the street from each other and we just marvel when we drive around Visalia, we
just marvel. The development is so
far-reaching. But I don’t recall anyone
really leaving this area.

DJ: What was a typical Sunday like during the
war years when many of the men were gone?

TM: Of course movies. I went to every change of the movies there
was. They changed it three times a
weekend, I was there. The admission was
very little compared to now. Now it
takes almost $20 to go to a matinee or a movie. At that time, the movies were where it was at, you know, for children of
our age and also teenagers. Sunday was
spent at the movies because they changed the movies on Sunday. It was a new feature. I would stay for two showings and then be
afraid to go home because it got dark. Isn’t
that silly? But I just loved it. The "now" generation says you can’t be
influenced by the movies. Yes, you can. I was terribly influenced, but it was all good
stuff. I was influenced. I saw how people acted and what you did in
those homespun stories. You derived a
lot of good things from it.

DJ: What movie do you think was the most
influential on you?

TM: Oh, I think, my first one was San
Francisco, with Clark Gable. I wasn’t a
fan of Clark Gable, but Gregory Peck was my . . . that was my first movie. My brother took me and I don’t know how old I
was and I just marveled at the beauty of it all. It was the story of the fire in San
Francisco. Then later on, the movies stars were so
glamorous and you looked up to them and you devoured everything they said
because it was so wholesome.

DJ: How nice.

TM: They were wholesome. I can remember going to the movies to see
Kings Row where Ronald Reagan gets his legs chopped off. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. I
can remember. There were three of us, my sister and a girlfriend and we just
wiped our eyes until they almost fell out because of the crying. The girlfriend and I walked out and our eyes
were just like this,bulging,and my sister was just a little prissy thing. We asked her "So how come?" She said, "Because I dabbed my eyes instead
of rubbing them." Anyway, I remember
those kinds of movies. They were very
touching. We enjoyed crying too. It means that you were moved personally, you
know.

DJ: And you mentioned it was something younger
kids and teenagers did during the war years to pass the time. Did the adults go as well?

TM: No, not during the war years. There were picnics and we visited a lot until
television came in. Every night we would
either go over to our aunt’s home or uncle’s home or a friend’s home. We lived by Washington school
and we played on the playground until 9:00
o’clock. This is
what we did for entertainment. We played
ball and tag and so on, children’s games. There were a lot of friendships. On our block there were always children from toddlers to 18 year olds
and we congregated over at the school.

DJ: I know it’s very hot here in the valley in
the summertime. Have you noticed a
change?

TM: Yes, yes. Decidedly so. I think it’s hotter
and we’ve discussed it and we’ve come to the conclusion that there was so much
vegetation around the city that it kept it cooler.

DJ: That makes sense.

TM: Now that it’s streets and so on, and homes
and we don’t have the vegetation we used to. There were clover and alfalfa field near here and it got a little warm
in the summer because the cotton got dry and it got a little bit warmer. No, that would be the fall. But no, it has
changed.

DJ: Also during those war years, was your mother
very careful, very frugal with . . . well, I imagine after the Depression
everybody was.

TM: Yes, very frugal. She taught us management. They had to manage what little income there
was to make it worth our living here. There was a lot of canning and preserving. Of course the gardens provided a lot of the
vegetables and we were able to go out and buy a box of peaches and can them for
the winter and tomatoes. That
supplemented our grocery bill quite well. I remember my mother making jelly and it lasted all year round. People were very giving, too. I noticed farmers coming in with big bags of
grapes and naturally you made jelly. After you ate enough for table grapes, you then canned the rest of them
or made jelly out of it. There were times
when my mother made homemade bread. During the war years they both worked at cannery, so wages did get a
little better.

DJ: And did your mom work because of the war
effort?

TM: No. Out of necessity. The cannery
worked a lot during the war years because they supplied food and whatever they
can. You wouldn’t say that was helping,
but because it was an economic thing and they needed a job and so that’s what
they did during the summer months.

DJ: And did you find many of the mothers went to
work or were gone during the war years?

TM: No, I didn’t. There were a few ladies of our group that had to go to work at the
cannery. That was the only outlet for
them to work. The mothers did work in the canneries during the season, but most
generally they were home caring for their children. I never realized my mother
being gone especially. During the war
year we were in school and we got out at 3:30 or so
and by that time she was home. I don’t
know that we were aware of that.

DJ: In school did they teach much about current
events as far as the war? Was there
discussion on that?

TM: Yes, we had social studies, but I don’t
recall them having special programs or classes where they discussed the
war. We knew it was there and there were
some deprivations such as the food stamps that everybody had to have. It wasn’t, you know, the economic level where
the lowest level got the stamps. Everybody was rationed. The
rationing was enough that you weren’t deprived. It was just rationed so it would last for many people instead of people
hording.

DJ: Did people do that?

TM: I can’t say for sure, but . . .

DJ: I guess when you’re in high school you don’t
really pay attention to that stuff.

TM: No, but I don’t think there were. I remember my mom ran out of sugar and asked
my grandmother if she could have her sugar stamps one time. Other than that, I don’t think so. I don’t think people had the smarts to
defraud. Is that the word?

DJ: Maybe they didn’t even have the desire back
then.

TM: Maybe it was that,that they didn’t have the
desire. People are so conniving and I
can’t imagine how these people come to the conclusion to doing certain things to
take advantage. I don’t know where they
get the idea. Of course it’s smart once
you learn of it. I’m sure that
generation didn’t do that. Maybe in some
areas I didn’t know.

DJ: In closing, do you have any comments about
the war or any advice you’d give to the next generation?

TM: Advice I’d give to the next generation –
things have changed drastically. I know
that my husband was in the landing at Normandy and
we’d go to reunions for the Army and of course they were from the "Great"
generation and they were very patriotic, but they have changed their attitudes
towards,they’re saying there hasn’t been a war that solved anything. This is how they feel. That they should think a little bit more
deeply before going into war.

DJ: The "Great" generation feels this way?

TM: This group that I hear is saying that we
should look into it more deeply. They felt
at the time that they wanted to defend their country. And my husband said, "I would do it again, under
the circumstances." We’ve become more
aware of what’s going on. The world has
gotten smaller and we can’t save the world. That sort of thing. It’s just a
different climate now.

DJ: Do you find a parallel between Pearl
Harbor and the TwinTowers?

TM: Oh goodness. I don’t know. From the standpoint
of a 15 year old, we thought the attack was terrible and war was
inevitable. I think people followed
that. With the TwinTowers, I’m
sure it was just as devastating. I’m
sure it was, to say the least. But to go
into another war is kind of jumping the gun. I think we could have negotiated.

DJ: It’s definitely a tough call. I’m glad I wasn’t in that seat.

TM: True, true, true. But overall this is the
sentiment that some people have. I think
that’s my sentiment. I came to the
conclusion,I was patriotic, I’m patriotic also, but you stop and re-think
some of it. War has never,I think throughout
mankind’s history, they never resolved anything by war. Never. I think there are other means. Of
course if you’re attacked, that’s another story.

DJ: Any closing comments about the area?

TM: I love it here. I just love it here. Even though it’s growing, I wouldn’t live
anywhere else. TulareCounty has been
good for me and my family and my friends and relatives.

DJ: I’m so thankful you were able to share your
story with us. It will be preserved for
generations to come.

TM: I hope it’s edited.

DJ: Thank you very much.

TM: You’re welcome.

Diane Jules/Transcriber:J Chubbuck, 3/30/04/Edited JW 8/05/04

Editor’s note: Italic clarifying words, phrases and family names were added as a result of a
phone interview with Theresa Mastrangelo on August 5th,
2004.