tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29244691097109710482018-02-19T12:39:33.564-06:00The Lazy Daze CompanionThis is a collection of articles on maintaining and enjoying a Lazy Daze motor home.Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comBlogger246125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-57543136023193659682017-12-12T07:45:00.000-06:002017-12-12T07:45:41.283-06:00DTV in Your Lazy DazeIntroduction:<br />• This article is intended to help you deal with television, especially DTV in your motor home.<br />• Notation: Since we are talking about both analog TV sets with DTV converters and DTV sets themselves, the word “set” here means any TV receiving device<br />Overview:<br />• The United States requires its larger (called full service) television stations to transmit DTV signals.<br />• There are other “secondary” TV services consisting of Low Power, class-A, translators and booster transmitters. Many are now transmitting DTV signals while others remain analog. These stations are typically found in the rural areas where we often camp.<br />• CATV systems in RV parks will typically have analog signals. Any digital signals on CATV systems will be in a different format than over the air DTV signals. Set top boxes typically will not decode them. Some DTV sets will<br />• Conclusion: The TV in your coach needs to have the ability to receive at both analog and over-the-air DTV signals.<br />The American DTV System:<br />• A DTV transmitter transmits 19.4 million bits per second.<br />• Computer networks typically send from 1 to 3 million bits per second.<br />• The DTV System is pretty spectacular, being able to send those 19.4 Mbits/sec under very difficult conditions.<br />• DTV has some other nice features<br />o Excellent picture quality<br />o Info button gives positive station ID<br />o Most sets have a program guide (what’s on right now and coming programs)<br />o Some sets are able to scan all stations and gather a full program guide<br /><strong>DTV Channel Numbering:</strong><br />• DTV stations are able to send one very detailed program (HDTV) or several programs of varying definition. When they send several signals, it’s called multi-casting.<br />• A DTV signal’s channel number is always shown by the set as a number with a decimal or hyphen. For example, “10.1” or “10-1”. An analog signal may be shown as just the number. For example “10” or it may be shown as “10-0”.<br />• When multi-casting the signals are numbered thusly: 10.1, 10.2, 10.3, 10.4 etc<br />• But, DTV channel numbering is very different than analog in a very different way:<br />o There is the “Physical Channel”, which is the actual RF channel that the signal is being transmitted on. These are the numbers you have known all your life.<br />o Then there is the “Virtual” or “Display Channel”. This is the number that the station tells the DTV set to show as the channel number.<br />o For example, in Portland, OR, KOIN TV’s old analog transmitter was on channel 6 so everyone knows the station as KOIN 6. Its DTV transmitter is now on channel 40. KOIN sends a message to your set to show its channel as 6-1 so viewers recognize it as KOIN. TV people will say that KOIN is on virtual channel 6-1. You typically will only know the signal’s virtual channel number. Some sets have the ability to show you the real or RF channel number, but many don’t.<br />o Furthermore, translators carrying signals from distant transmitters often show the channel number of their parent station. Thus, along the north Oregon coast you will see channel 6-1 on your set while it’s actually tuned to physical channel 38, 41 or 23 depending where you are.<br /><strong>Connecting Your Converter Box:</strong><br />• While you need to be able to tune in DTV, you must still be able to receive analog TV:<br />o Translators and Low Power analog TV stations not immediately converting to DTV.<br />o CATV in RV Parks will still mostly be analog TV for some time.<br />• There are two connections that must be made:<br />o A signal from the coach’s TV antenna must be connected to the DTV converter’s RF input.<br />o The signal(s) from the DTV converter must be directed to the TV set.<br />• There are essentially three ways to make each of those two connections. You can mix and match the antenna connections vs. the TV set connections.<br /><b>Note: If the diagrams below are hard to read, just click on them and they will open in a larger view</b>.<br />Method A:<br /><a href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d-Ar_j8Z1E8/TnAWCIka9RI/AAAAAAAAAU0/s_Fo5VTH9xU/s1600/dtv_merthod_a.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-d-Ar_j8Z1E8/TnAWCIka9RI/AAAAAAAAAU0/s_Fo5VTH9xU/s400/dtv_merthod_a.jpg" /></a><br />Method A shows that if one can get to the back of the Winegard RV distribution box, there is an unused RF outlet available to provide the RF signal to the DTV converter set. This approach is good when the DTV converter box does not have a bypass mode (that mode feeds the unprocessed antenna signal directly thru to the TV set).<br />Method A also shows that one can connect the signal from the converter box to the TV set using audio/video connections. This approach creates the best picture quality.<br />Method B:<br /><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zKE32FPGb0Q/TnAW4JiFIQI/AAAAAAAAAU8/1dz7Mg5Okw4/s1600/dtv_merthod_b.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zKE32FPGb0Q/TnAW4JiFIQI/AAAAAAAAAU8/1dz7Mg5Okw4/s400/dtv_merthod_b.jpg" /></a><br />In Method B, the signal is provided to the DTV box by splitting the signal from the front of the Winegard unit. The big advandage of this approach is that no access to the back of the Winegard unit is required.<br />The analog TV signal on channel 3 or 4 RF signal created by the converter box is used to provide the TV set with a signal. Because it is necessary to be able to use the TV set to view analog TV signals, an A/B is needed as shown.<br />Method C:<br /><a href="http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UYA_D4Oddcg/TnAZZCwrtxI/AAAAAAAAAVc/LhteuuJL1AI/s1600/dtv_method_c.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UYA_D4Oddcg/TnAZZCwrtxI/AAAAAAAAAVc/LhteuuJL1AI/s400/dtv_method_c.jpg" /></a><br />Method C is the easiest but it requires a DTV converter box that has a bypass or feed-through mode.<br />Keep in mind that one can select any method to provide an antenna signal to the converter box and independently select another method to connect the converter’s output signal to the TV set; like a Chinese restaurant menu.<br /><strong>Connecting Your Power to your Converter Box:</strong><br />• You must also connect power to the converter box.<br />• This is much more situational; depends heavily on the converter box and the RV.<br />• Some converter boxes have an attached AC line cord. You must provide it <br />110 VAC power via an inverter or shore power.<br />• Some converter boxes have external power supplies:<br />o You can plug the external supply into an 110 VAC inverter or shore power, or<br />o If the supply has a DC output, you may be able to use a DC to DC adapter.<br />• If the converter uses 12 VCD, one can plug it directly into the 12 VDC power in the coach.<br /><strong>DTV Background:</strong><br />• To steal a line...”It’s not your father’s TV signal anymore!”<br />• DTV is like Frank Sinatra’s song a DTV signal is “All or Nothing at All”.<br />• DTV produces <b>flawless</b> (no ghosts, herring bone, etc.), <b>noiseless</b> (no snow or fuzz) <b>pictures </b>and<b> sound</b> ... until the signal amplitude falls to the receiver’s <u>threshold .</u><br />• <u>It goes through a narrow “fuzzy” zone.</u><br />• And then:<br /><b><i>IT FAILS </i></b><b><i>COMP</i></b><b><i>LETELY</i></b><br /><b><i>As in ... </i></b><b><i>NO Picture </i></b><b><i>… NO Sound … N</i></b><b><i>O N</i></b><b><i>othing.</i></b><br />• It goes from here...<br /><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g4PuVgg_Lk8/TnAY8R1gVwI/AAAAAAAAAVU/pc8CkyMIwkM/s1600/dtv_pic1.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-g4PuVgg_Lk8/TnAY8R1gVwI/AAAAAAAAAVU/pc8CkyMIwkM/s400/dtv_pic1.jpg" /></a>.... to here... <br /><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Au6JPHoKy1M/TnAYZ1mayjI/AAAAAAAAAVM/bM6GhDBqtFw/s1600/dtv_pic2.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Au6JPHoKy1M/TnAYZ1mayjI/AAAAAAAAAVM/bM6GhDBqtFw/s400/dtv_pic2.jpg" /></a>To here... <br /><b><i><a href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6p3cWiRe36M/TnAXmB8dOAI/AAAAAAAAAVE/GCvPmj08ZuU/s1600/dtv_pic3.jpg"><img alt="" border="0" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6p3cWiRe36M/TnAXmB8dOAI/AAAAAAAAAVE/GCvPmj08ZuU/s400/dtv_pic3.jpg" /></a></i></b>... with a very small change (1 dB).<br />• It must be emphasized:<br />– Picture and sound are sent together.<br />– When you have a picture you will have sound. When the signal fails, <br /><b><u>Picture and Sound Fail Together.</u></b><br />– In fact, the first indication that the signal has fallen below threshold is the sound muting.<br />• For those few who know the term, the picture/sound can go from IDEAL to NOTHING with a 1 dB amplitude change.<br />• For those that don’t know what that means, 1 dB is about the change in volume one gets with one or two clicks of the volume control on a modern TV or radio.<br />• If you have just barely enough signal, small changes can cause the picture to become “pixilated” or vanish. Causes like:<br />o A storm.<br />o A vehicle moving.<br />o A new source of interference (like a fan.<br />• DTV troubleshooting is difficult<br />o When there is a picture, the picture is ideal.<br />o When there is no picture, you have nothing.<br />o There is little in between.<br />o You are flying blind.<br />• The only available strategy: just keep trying various things until something works.<br /><strong>Tuning In DTV Signals:</strong><br />•If you are camping where the signal amplitudes are low, tuning in DTV signals can be ... uh … .....trying.<br />•The RF performance of most set top DTV converters is adequate to good for use in a RV. However, the user interface is quite variable with some MUCH better than others. <br />•DTV sets try to make finding signals “easy” by providing an automatic scanning mode to find the stations for you. <br />•Many sets won’t let you tune to a given channel until the set finds it for itself during some form of a scan, either manual or automatic. <br />•Other sets will tune to a new channel just by entering its channel number on the remote control.&nbsp; Try your set to see if it works this way.&nbsp; If it does ,and you know the new signal's RF channel number that is a fast way to tune the set.<br />• During an automatic scan, if a DTV signal is detected but is below threshold the set may or may not add the channel to its list.<br />• It’s very useful if it does so because it points to where to search for a DTV signal.<br />• If you don’t know what direction the signals are coming from, you may have to turn the antenna, scan, turn the antenna, scan, etc., which can be very time consuming (more below).<br />• A few sets have a manual add/delete mode or allow a manual scan. These sets are the best for use in an RV.<br />• The DTV set-top converters that have the best user interface for use in a RV are the Artec T3A, the Winegard RDCT-09, the Zenith DTT 900 and 901, The RCA STB 7766G-1, The Radio Shack stock # 15-149 and # 15-150, The Insignia NX-DTA 1. These units have an excellent manual scan add/delete mode that works very well in a RV. The Artec and the Wineguard are the only DC powered units.<br /><strong>Setting Up Camp:</strong><br />• So, you just pulled into a new campsite. How do you find out if there’s any TV to watch?<br />• You may have a DTV set or a set top converter so there is a wide variation of user interfaces. This makes it impossible to give just one best method. Just some general guidance ...<br />• Where do you initially point the antenna?<br />o Ask someone where the TV stations are.<br />o If you are camping with other RVs, note where their antennas are pointing and point yours there too.<br />o If camping alone, start by pointing toward the nearest large population concentration.<br />• If you have a set and DTV converter, first scan the analog receiver to see what is around. Transmitters are typically found in groups so if there is an analog signal there may be DTV signals there also. Turn the antenna to get the best analog picture for a starting point.<br />• Now scan the DTV set. Hopefully, that will turn up at least one decodable DTV signal.<br />• Or perhaps after scanning, when you push the remote’s up/down the set stops at a channel but there is no picture. This might be a near miss.<br />o <b><u>Slowly</u></b> turn the antenna first one way and then the other and see if a picture will pop into view.<br />o <b><u>Slowly</u></b> equals one Winegard antenna azimuth notch every 5 sec.<br />• Perhaps the scan turned up one or more viewable DTV signals.<b><u></u></b><br />• <b><u>Slowly</u></b> turn the antenna first one way and then the other to find the range over which the signal(s) are above threshold.<br />• Then center the antenna in the range.<br />• Signal strength indicators:<br />o Many sets have some sort of signal “goodness” indicator mode.<br />o If you have a signal above threshold, you can use the signal strength reading to aim the antenna directly at the station. (The strength indicators don’t seem to work until the signal is above threshold.)<br />• Aim the antenna at the center of the range that makes pictures on at least one channel.<br />• Run another scan to see if more DTV signals can now be found.<br />• If no signals are found on the first try, turn the antenna 45° and scan again.<br />• DTV transmitters are often, but not always, sited near each other so if you find one, you may find many.<br />• After finding station(s), you may want to try pointing the antenna in a different direction to see if there are more to be found.<br />• If your converter or TV set has a manual scan or manual add/delete mode it often can be used to find stations.<br />o Point the antenna in a likely direction.<br />o Manually tune the converter through the channels looking for the presence of a DTV signal on the unit’s signal strength indicator.<br />o Once a signal is found, <b><u>slowly</u></b> turn the antenna to maximize its strength.<br />• One of the oddities of DTV is that after the signal is above threshold, greater signal amplitude does not help. Therefore, if there are several signals, work to bring the smallest above threshold without loosing the larger signals.<br /><strong>The RV Batwing Antenna:</strong><br />• Your present Winegard Sensar (batwing) antenna system works very well for DTV.<br />• For channels 2-13, the batwing is bi-directional: it gets its largest signal when you aim either of its flat sides toward the station. (There are very, very few DTV signals on channels 2 – 6).<br />• For channels 14-51, it’s directional: it gets its largest signal when you aim the flat side that’s away from its support posts toward the station. (Since DTV signals like to hide what channel you are actually tuned to, try to turn the antenna so that side is toward the station.)<br />• When looking for DTV signals be sure to turn the antenna completely around.<br />• Winegard introduced an accessory for the Batwing antenna called Wingman. Wingman improves performance and makes the antenna much more directional on channels 14-51. While the Wingman’s improvement is relatively small, because of DTV’s threshold, it can make the difference between receiving and not receiving a signal.<br /><strong>A Nag:</strong><br />• Have you lubed your coach’s TV antenna mechanism lately?<br />• It gets stiff if you don’t.<br />Contributor: Linley Gumm<br /><br />Revised: 6 Oct 11Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-77344662462139148762017-12-11T11:16:00.002-06:002018-02-19T12:39:33.672-06:00Cab AC - Air Flow Cuts Off Under AccelerationLosing air flow from the dash vents under acceleration&nbsp;may be caused by a failed vacuum check valve. The HVAC's vent controls are powered by engine vacuum. Engine vacuum decreases during acceleration or going uphill. Under acceleration, stored&nbsp;vacuum from the reservoir is used to maintain HVAC's vacuum supply.<br /><br />You can test for a bad check valve by turning the engine off, waiting 30 minutes and then, without starting the engine, moving the HVAC control to a new position, listening for movement under the dash, indicating that stored vacuum is still present. If you hear nothing, good chance the check valve has failed. The HVAC controls should normally operate the controls after sitting a day or more.<br /><br />[Note: The default vent setting is to the defrost vents. So the air is still flowing, it’s just not where you may want it. As an aside, you should set the vent control to off before turning off the engine in cold weather to keep air out of the passenger compartment]<br /><br />The check valve/vacuum canister cannot be replaced by mere mortals. This why Ford charges $900 labor to do it.<br /><br />You can Google for other DIY fixes, you will find thousands of hits. There are also YouTube's on the subject. I have not found any of them that speak to me. Of course, you may not find my fix to be understandable. Here is one from the&nbsp;<a href="http://www.sportsmobileforum.com/forums/f9/climate-control-vacuum-leak-testing-11605.html" target="_blank">Sportsmobile Forum.</a><br /><br />The following describes a DIY procedure to save $900. In this procedure, we locate both ends of the hose and abandon the middle inaccessible section.<br /><br />Parts:<br /><a href="https://www.autozone.com/engine-management/vacuum-reservoir/dorman-vacuum-reservoir/439276_0_0?cmpid=PS:3:3:1&amp;s_kwcid=AL!5142!3!193234447845!!!!304545355627!&amp;ef_id=WbK8FgAAAprv_IOZ:20171021201255:s" target="_blank">Dorman Vacuum Reservoir</a><br />[If this is a dead link, Google for Vacuum Reservoir]<br /><br />5 feet of 5/32 inch Vacuum Hose<br /><br />On the E-series, the vacuum supply line runs from a port on the intake manifold, disappearing behind A/C components and exiting through the firewall near the passenger footwell.<br /><br />1) Look for a 1/8" black plastic hose. One end leads to the intake manifold. The other end leads toward to passenger side of the firewall.<br />Here is a photo with the hose marked with red tape.<br /><div><br /></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cINIO79eDqE/WhC6lm7vhWI/AAAAAAAAJII/KBhHMCQxOhgdUpdK-jEjUZvyYLECH-H9QCLcBGAs/s1600/vac1.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="768" data-original-width="1024" height="300" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-cINIO79eDqE/WhC6lm7vhWI/AAAAAAAAJII/KBhHMCQxOhgdUpdK-jEjUZvyYLECH-H9QCLcBGAs/s400/vac1.JPG" width="400" /></a></div><br /><br />We will return here later.<br /><br />2) Pull the plastic cover off the right side of the passenger foot well to gain access to the other end of the vacuum hose. What you are looking for is marked with the red tape.<br /><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ACq9ttkwejE/WhC7B8uDQNI/AAAAAAAAJIU/lpmDr-MZBgIMbX7NVc9ZAkCNHL_Bn0REgCLcBGAs/s1600/vac2.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="768" data-original-width="576" height="400" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ACq9ttkwejE/WhC7B8uDQNI/AAAAAAAAJIU/lpmDr-MZBgIMbX7NVc9ZAkCNHL_Bn0REgCLcBGAs/s400/vac2.JPG" width="300" /></a></div>&nbsp;Closer<br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tXvKEc3ObeI/WhC7B4Wt4OI/AAAAAAAAJIQ/Q3giQn3G0uwF_-gjiiugPXhm1Otzn09aQCLcBGAs/s1600/vac3.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="768" data-original-width="1024" height="300" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tXvKEc3ObeI/WhC7B4Wt4OI/AAAAAAAAJIQ/Q3giQn3G0uwF_-gjiiugPXhm1Otzn09aQCLcBGAs/s400/vac3.JPG" width="400" /></a></div><br /><br />Cut the existing hose close to the firewall.&nbsp; With a small flat blade screwdriver, remove the plastic grommet protecting the hose from the firewall. This will allow you to pull the hose out an inch or so where you will find another fitting slightly larger than the grommet hose. Cut on the other side of the grommet. Say goodbye to the old hose.<br /><br />3) Now snake something through the grommet hose to the&nbsp;other side of the firewall to be able to pull a new hose through the firewall. I found that my coiled fish tape was too flexible for this purpose. I used a 2-foot long metal shirt hanger straightened out with a U on one the leading side. The angle that worked for me was inserting it through the hole from a 2 to an 8 o’clock position.<br /><br />For this step, you need to be over 6 feet tall or use a stool so you can see straight down behind the battery. The snake will exit the firewall below the battery. Follow the wiper fluid fill tube down and you will see an electrical connector on the firewall. The snake will exit below that connector. You will be able to see it, but not touch it. When the DW got the U on the snake where I could see it, I used another shirt hanger also with a U on the end and grabbed the other U and pulled it up.<br /><br />Now you can pull the hose from the passenger compartment to the engine compartment. I made a slit in the hose and inserted the U in my homemade snake through it so it could be pulled through.<br /><br />Now insert the 1/8 hose from the manifold into the 5/32 hose.<br /><br />Start the engine and test for vacuum. It's not a big suck, but you can feel it.<br /><br />4) The reservoir has an inlet and outlet nozzles, but it's not marked which is which. The 5/32 hose (the one you just pulled through the firewall fits one of the nozzles, but it's&nbsp;<u>not&nbsp;</u>the right one. Cut a short piece from the 1/8 hose you cut off, stick it in the 5/32 hose and the other into the cannister. Just reverse that for the other nozzle.<br /><br /><b>Don't overtighten any hose clamps, it easy to compress the 1/8 hose and cut off air flow.</b><br /><br /><u>You should now test for air flow from the dash vents.</u><br /><br />5) Now you need to locate the reservoir out of the way of feet. I elected to remove the small vertical dash panel just in front of the seat. The dash panel is mounted to an easily removed steel plate. Pull the plastic gently from the bottom.<br /><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-669CWqdEX8k/WhDBGbWoDpI/AAAAAAAAJIk/b07S9vhk0R0gwubn-p49r2_vZHH1SfWLwCLcBGAs/s1600/vac4.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="683" data-original-width="1024" height="213" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-669CWqdEX8k/WhDBGbWoDpI/AAAAAAAAJIk/b07S9vhk0R0gwubn-p49r2_vZHH1SfWLwCLcBGAs/s320/vac4.JPG" width="320" /></a></div><br />Behind that plate is a home for the reservoir. I used Dual Lock to secure it to a plastic cover. By using Dual Lock I can remove it if I ever need to.<br /><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fMF9rrkKIgA/WhDBKpk3daI/AAAAAAAAJIo/RoG8Db3lkdgw1sxAHEy1UoNFdPjUIJmZgCLcBGAs/s1600/vac5.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" data-original-height="683" data-original-width="1024" height="266" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-fMF9rrkKIgA/WhDBKpk3daI/AAAAAAAAJIo/RoG8Db3lkdgw1sxAHEy1UoNFdPjUIJmZgCLcBGAs/s400/vac5.JPG" width="400" /></a></div><br />Secure the hose with quick ties and button everything up.<br /><br />6) Enjoy cool air from dash vents.<br /><br />Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-41435445766393876722017-12-09T21:52:00.001-06:002017-12-15T20:00:46.086-06:00TV On While Driving<span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="color: #333333;">There may be times when passengers want to watch TV or use the CD player while the Lazy Daze is being driven. For driver safety reasons, some Lazy Dazes are pre-wired so as to prevent the TV or any device run through it from operating while the ignition is on. The following information tells you how to bypass the ignition for passenger viewing. This appears to be an issue with the 31' model only, probably due to placement of the TV in the cabover above the driver.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="color: #333333;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="color: #333333;">Chris Horst: In our 2002 30' with entertainment unit, I was told to disconnect the TV lockout in 2 different places: look for a blue wire directly behind the TV on the driver's side rear corner of the cabinet and/or a blue wire connected to the the yellow/black striped wire in the Ford radio harness accessible by removing the radio.&nbsp; The blue wire receives power only with the ignition switch in run or accessory.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="color: #333333;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;">Jim Cummings: In our 2006 30', the solution was a 5-minute fix. In our case, the black Bosch relay box is behind the panel that has the inverter switch, TV amplifier switch, and amplifier plate. The wire was blue with a spade connector. He unplugged that and taped off the spade connector and it works now with the engine on. I am attaching a copy of the photo that Chris took of his wiring. The relay is at the back bottom left. The photo below shows the set-up when the 20" Sony TV was standard and is in a '02 30'. In all newer models, look for the disconnect in the area of the TV amplifier switch and plate.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;"><br /></span></span><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;">Understand that driving with the TV on may be illegal, so make this modification at your own risk.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;"><br /></span></span><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-os_6XhqbS4M/Wiyu7RrVr7I/AAAAAAAAKvQ/aAcTIq7PzbUYD265bXhv4PA-kZvIcaqZwCLcBGAs/s1600/Area%2Bbehind%2BTV2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><img border="0" data-original-height="1200" data-original-width="1600" height="240" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-os_6XhqbS4M/Wiyu7RrVr7I/AAAAAAAAKvQ/aAcTIq7PzbUYD265bXhv4PA-kZvIcaqZwCLcBGAs/s320/Area%2Bbehind%2BTV2.jpg" width="320" /></span></a></div><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><br /></span> <span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><span style="font-size: small;">Chris H,&nbsp;</span>Jim C</span></span><br /><span style="color: #333333; font-size: 14.994px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span> <em style="color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><br /></em><br /><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div>Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-33429793149339544912017-11-28T20:09:00.000-06:002017-12-02T17:30:40.535-06:00Window Regulator (Power Windows)<span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;"><span style="background-color: transparent;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;"><span style="background-color: transparent;">Our driver side cab window regulator failed on the trip we just returned from, and despite a kind offer to help with repair from Mr. Wade, I decided with time constraints I would give it a go myself in his absence. The mechanism gave a pop sound when raising the window, which then slowly descended into the door. This regulator has a vertical track that the window carrier slides on, with a cable drive whose ends attach to the carrier from top and bottom plastic glides. The cable is wound on a drum, driven by the window motor, under spring tension. In our case, the upper cable end released from the carrier, allowing the window to drop.</span></span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Once the inner door panel and water shield are removed, you can access the regulator and motor assembly attachments. The bottom edge of the window is affixed to a metal bracket with some sealant/glue. The bracket is attached to the regulator carrier with two 1/4" pop rivets, and more of these attach the bottom of the track to the door, and three more attach the motor assembly to the door. The top of the track has two studs attached with nuts.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">I removed the pop rivets by using a spring-loaded punch to pop out the nail in the middle, then a 1/4" drill to separate the rivets. It takes a bit of fiddling with the window glass to be able to access those rivets. I blocked the window fully up to wrestle the old mechanism out and the new one in and used 1/4-20 bolts and nylon locknuts in place of the rivets for re-installation. I used duct tape pieces to hold the nuts/bolts on the tools I used to install some of the marginally accessible ones.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Note: I believe a worn plastic attachment point for the cable on the window carrier allowed the cable to release. I disassembled the old regulator cable drum and found that attempting to operate the motor after that had destroyed the cable inside the drum - not repairable. The part I ordered was a regulator with motor complete for about $60 from RockAuto, but replacing the unit without motor would have been successful as well.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Steve</span></span><br /><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;">_______________________________________________________________</span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;">When I replace our LD's window regulator, every pop-rivets' pin was bent and they would not pop out, no matter what tool I used on them. The pins were too hard to drill out, so they had to be cut off using a pneumatic angle grinder.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">I was able to find a Motorcraft regulator from Rock Auto but I see they are no longer available.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">I used pop-rivets to reattach the new regulator but would have used 1/4" bolts and lock-nuts if I didn't already have the tool.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Amazing how cheap the replacement parts are. Even more amazing is how much it cost to have one installed.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">There is only a $20 difference between just the regulator, the part that breaks, and the whole assembly. You can swap the motor but, being many years old, &nbsp;it's a better choice to replace it too.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">If the rivet's center pins pop out easily, as they did Steve's LD, it isn't an exceptionally complicated job. He used a spring-loaded center punch to break to break the pins loose.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;">TEKTON 6580 Automatic Center Punch - - Amazon.com There is a bolt or two, used in installing the new regulator, that is a challenge to get to.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">I was able to install new, 1/4" pop rivets, to hold the new regulator in, already owning a big pop-rivet tool.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;">Amazon.com: Astro 1426 1/4-Inch Heavy-Duty Hand Riveter: Home Improvement It isn't something you will probably ever use again so don't bother buying one, use bolts and lock-nuts instead. 1/4" pop-rivets are often used in kayak construction to attach accessories and deck gear.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">FYI, Steve's new regulator came with the needed nuts and bolts. The Motorcraft replacement I used didn't.</span></span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Larry<span style="background-color: white; color: #333333;"></span></span></span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><br /></span><br /><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div>Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-46407525694003663652017-11-20T19:58:00.002-06:002017-11-28T21:07:41.456-06:00Tire Pressure Management Systems (TPMS)<h3 class="post-title entry-title" itemprop="name" style="font-weight: normal; line-height: normal; margin: 0px; position: relative;"><a href="http://theldcompanion.blogspot.com/2017/11/tire-pressure-management-systems-tpms_20.html" style="text-decoration: none;"><span style="color: black; font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;">Tire Pressure Management Systems (TPMS)</span></a></h3><div class="post-header" style="line-height: 1.6; margin: 0px 0px 1.5em;"><div class="post-header-line-1"></div></div><div class="post-body entry-content" id="post-body-1669224463754944529" itemprop="description articleBody" style="line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">The following discussion was compiled from a long thread about TPMS on the Lazy Daze Owners' Group forum.<b> Various TPMS brands have been bolded</b>.</span></div><div class="post-body entry-content" id="post-body-1669224463754944529" itemprop="description articleBody" style="line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="post-body entry-content" id="post-body-1669224463754944529" itemprop="description articleBody" style="line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;"><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="post-body entry-content" id="post-body-1669224463754944529" itemprop="description articleBody" style="line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">We have TPMS from&nbsp;<b>Tire Safeguard</b>. Flow through for LD and not for the toad. Have been very satisfied, especially with the telephone support when monitors got out of sync and technical spent about 1/2 hour helping to re-sequence. Kudos.<br /><br />Tom</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br />From Technomadia:<br /><br /><a href="http://Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS) for RVs - Why the EEZTIRE is Our..." style="text-decoration: none;" target="_blank">Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems (TPMS) for RVs - Why the EEZTIRE is Our...</a></span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br />We recently purchased the&nbsp;<b>TireTracker</b>&nbsp;system at a Rally in Indiana. It is a different system compared to one pictured in the link. We haven't installed it yet but plan to do so in the very near future, It was an expensive purchase but something we just felt we couldn't live without any longer. It has some features we liked including a notification when tire temp suddenly changes, alerting the driver to a potential problem. Jeff from RV safety came across as knowledgeable and credible at the various rally presentations he made on safety.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">I would not be without one.&nbsp; I have been happy with my&nbsp;<b>PressurePro&nbsp;</b>TPMS.&nbsp; It has been on for 9 years now.&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I bought it before I took delivery of my '08, and have had the sensors, with non-replaceable batteries, in place since then.&nbsp;&nbsp;Around year 2, I had a sensor go bad.&nbsp;&nbsp;It was replaced, no cost, under warranty.&nbsp;&nbsp;At 7 years, in very cold weather, I had a sensor (1 of 10) that would be slow to register, and would occasionally lose its connection to the monitor.&nbsp;&nbsp;So, with 7 years on the sensors and an expected life of 5 years, I replaced all the sensors.&nbsp;&nbsp;I am at 9 years on the system, with no other issues.&nbsp;&nbsp;As Larry said about his system, programming the sensors is annoying but other than needing to press the buttons just right, is not onerous, particularly since I have only needed to do it a few times in 9 years.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I should note that I set my tire pressure with a digital pressure gauge.&nbsp;&nbsp;That gauge agrees with the two analog gauges on my compressor, e.g., I can set them at 80 psi, let the compressor charge the tire, then check the tire and I read 80 psi.&nbsp;&nbsp;However, the reading reported by the sensors can vary by several pounds.&nbsp;&nbsp;That really doesn't matter, because the sensors are intended to measure and report a CHANGE in tire pressure.&nbsp;&nbsp;They do a good job of that, and as the programming is individual sensor rather than group programming, if a number reading is off by a few pounds, that is of no consequence.&nbsp;&nbsp;A loss of pressure on one sensor will be reported as quickly as a loss of pressure on another and is a function of percentage pressure change.&nbsp;&nbsp;There is an old expression - "Man with one watch knows the time.&nbsp;&nbsp;Man with two watches never sure."&nbsp;&nbsp;As the sensors are highly reliable in detecting and reporting pressure changes, but not as much in reporting actual pressure, I do not use them to set my tire pressure.&nbsp; I make the tire pressure right and use the tire pressure to set the sensor.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">My TPMS,&nbsp;<b>PressurePro</b>, does not require a pre-departure scan.&nbsp;&nbsp;Once I turn it on, it takes a few minutes before every sensor "logs in" to the monitor.&nbsp;&nbsp;Once they do log in, any low values set off an alarm.&nbsp;&nbsp;Pressures are subsequently checked by the sensors every few seconds.&nbsp;&nbsp;If a pressure falls outside of the range, an alarm is immediately sent to the monitor.&nbsp;&nbsp;If all is ok, each sends pressure information to the monitor every few minutes.&nbsp;&nbsp;It is no distraction unless an alarm goes off, but that is something I would want to know.<br /><br />In 9 years of full timing, I have gotten one alarm from a failed sensor, and I have seen a number of first things AM alarms where a tire pressure is down a few pounds, due to the cold weather overnight.&nbsp;&nbsp;The pressure in the low tire is displayed, allowing me to decide if I need to pull out my compressor, or if it is OK to roll.&nbsp;&nbsp;Case in point, currently my TOAD pressures are reading 29 to 30 in the morning, and I usually take them up to 33.&nbsp;&nbsp;So, the alarm goes off, I look at the readings, and I silence the alarm.&nbsp;&nbsp;It will repeat in a few minutes if the pressure stays low, but usually, a mile of driving brings the pressure up to my "OK" range.<br /><br />When you check the pressure in the morning before starting out, you travel, knowing ONLY what the pressure USED to be.&nbsp; With a TPMS, you know what the pressure is, all the time.&nbsp; For some, they see no need for a TPMS.&nbsp; I would not travel without one.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">My TPMS,&nbsp;<b>PressurePro</b>, does not require a pre-departure scan.&nbsp; Once I turn it on, it takes a few minutes before every sensor "logs in" to the monitor.&nbsp; Once they do log in, any low values set off an alarm.&nbsp; Pressures are subsequently checked by the sensors every few seconds.&nbsp; If a pressure falls outside of the range, an alarm is immediately sent to the monitor.&nbsp; If all is ok, each sends pressure information to the monitor every few minutes.&nbsp; It is no distraction unless an alarm goes off, but that is something I would want to know.<br /><br />In 9 years of fulltiming, I have gotten one alarm from a failed sensor, and I have seen a number of first thing AM alarms where a tire pressure is down a few pounds, due to the cold weather overnight.&nbsp; The pressure in the low tire is displayed, allowing me to decide if I need to pull out my compressor, or if it is OK to roll.&nbsp; Case in point, currently my TOAD pressures are reading 29 to 30 in the morning, and I usually take them up to 33.&nbsp; So, the alarm goes off, I look at the readings, and I silence the alarm.&nbsp; It will repeat in a few minutes if the pressure stays low, but usually a mile of driving brings the pressure up to my "OK" range.<br /><br />When you check the pressure in the morning before starting out, you travel, knowing ONLY what the pressure USED to be.&nbsp; With a TPMS, you know what the pressure is, all the time.&nbsp; For some, they see no need for a TPMS.&nbsp; I would not travel without one.<br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><br /></span></span></div><div class="post-body entry-content" id="post-body-1669224463754944529" itemprop="description articleBody" style="line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Ken F</span>&nbsp;</span></div><div class="post-body entry-content" id="post-body-1669224463754944529" itemprop="description articleBody" style="line-height: 1.4; position: relative; width: 578px;"><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>TST (Truck System Technologies)</b>. We have used this system for a number of years on two RV's. Works just fine. I change the batteries each Spring simply to avoid having to change them on the road should they fail. Much easier to do at home at my convenience with all the tools I might need.<br /><br /><b>TST 507 Flow Thru Kit - Tire Pressure Monitoring Systems - Truck System...<o:p></o:p></b></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><i><span style="background-color: white;">"How much space does the read out gizmo take on the dashboard?&nbsp; He has a Scan Gauge up there now."</span></i><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Can't speak to all brands, of course, but the general answer to your question is 'not much'. Perhaps an area say 3' long by 1" deep. And it doesn't have to be right in front of the driver's eyes either, especially if there is a passenger to keep an eye on it now and then. I have a Scan Gauge, GPS and a TPMS and they all get together just fine.</span><br /><br /><i><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">"Can the sensors be put on if one has the air-thru filler valves, or do these sensors replace the filler valves?"</span></i><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The sensors replace the valve stem cap.</span><br /><br /><i><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">"Limited physical acuity will probably preclude self-installation, unless it is really easy to do.&nbsp; What sort of dealer (tire?) should we contact, if needed?"</span></i><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">As long as a person in your group can check the tire pressure now, they can install any of the TPMS systems. You just remove the existing cap and screw these in their place.</span><b>&nbsp;However</b><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">, sometimes, depending on the type of decorative wheel covers you have, the length of the valve stem and the size of the sensor, it may be necessary to enlarge the hole on the cover to accommodate the sensor. I had to do this to the two front wheel covers on my 2015. The holes simply were not large enough. Now I could have added a short extension to the valve stem to get it further out, but I really didn't want too. A drill with an abrasive attachment made quick work of making the hole larger. Plus I'm guessing that some of the metal I ground off would help offset the additional weight of the sensor.</span></span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white;">The first set of sensors we had did not have the flow-through stem feature. Before every trip,&nbsp; I like to get the tire pressures balanced because tires simply lose air over time. With the old system, I had to take all the sensors off to do this.&nbsp; Doable, but a PITA. The ones I have now have the flow-through stem so, before each trip, I just check the tire pressure with my gauge and use my pump to get everything just as I want it. A very convenient, time-saving feature.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Ed</span>&nbsp;</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Hello all,</span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">I had the experience yesterday of having a tire blow out on my Lazy Daze 26.5.&nbsp; It was the left outer tire that blew as I hit something on the way south on I95.&nbsp; I saw it and had tried to avoid it but no luck.&nbsp; My&nbsp;<b>TireTraker&nbsp;</b>system did exactly what it was supposed to.&nbsp; It started flashing a bright red light and beeping loudly warning me that I was losing pressure very quickly.&nbsp; I have a hearing loss and I was still able to hear it quite clearly.&nbsp; I drove slowly to the next exit and had the spare put on the camper.&nbsp; While the spare was being installed (for $25) we got to witness the Eclipse within six miles of the center of the path.<br /><br />Fortunately, I had ordered a&nbsp;<b>TireTraker</b>&nbsp;system last week and had it installed the night before I had the tire problem.&nbsp; This is the first trip I have made with the TPMS and I am sure glad I had it.&nbsp; Being able to check on what pressure was in which tire and see the individual temperatures is very helpful.&nbsp; I am now a believer in TPMS systems and their value to RVers.&nbsp; Had I not known what happened I would have had to pull off to inspect the damage and the traffic was VERY heavy going south on I95 in South Carolina at the time.&nbsp; Stopping on the highway would have been a very dangerous option but I did not have to thanks to the TireTraker system.<br /><br />I bought a&nbsp;<b>TireTraker</b>&nbsp;because I had heard about it from some close RVer friends who have had one for many years.&nbsp;&nbsp;In the latest issue of an RV magazine, they reviewed all of the popular systems including the one I bought.&nbsp;&nbsp;It was very easy to install as the manual was quite complete and easy to follow.&nbsp;&nbsp;One of the reasons I bought this system is that the individual sending units attach directly to the end of the tire valve stem and weigh less than 1/2 an ounce.&nbsp;&nbsp;I can add sending units when pulling a trailer.&nbsp;No having to remove a tire from rims or anything like other TPMS equipment I have seen.&nbsp;&nbsp;The batteries are cheap and plentiful and can be changed without removing the sending units.&nbsp;&nbsp;It is a well thought out system and I am sure glad I had put it on when I did.<br /><br />When I purchased my system I was told by the representative of&nbsp;<b>TireTraker</b>&nbsp;that I would need their "Repeater transmitter" as our RV's have an aluminum skin.&nbsp; That may be true with a trailer but the basic system worked just fine on my 26.5 LD and the signal strength was fine in my vehicle.<br /><br />This little device made a potentially bad experience into a manageable one.&nbsp; It kept me from having to stop on a crazy busy road and risking an accident.&nbsp; It protected my family and my dear little Lazy Daze RV. That made it worth every penny it cost, to me.<br /><br />I hope you never experience a blow out at speed as it gets exciting fast.&nbsp; Having safety equipment like the&nbsp;<b>TireTraker</b>&nbsp;makes my confidence level go up a notch while cruising along at 70 mph on a busy highway.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">I really liked how simple the&nbsp;<b>TireTraker</b>&nbsp;was to install.&nbsp;I installed the batteries on the sensors and screwed them on in place of the caps on the tire valve stems.&nbsp;&nbsp;Next, I programmed the controller by identifying each sensor, it took less than two minutes to finalize the programming on the system.&nbsp;&nbsp;I spent less than 10 minutes installing the entire system (including the repeater) myself and getting it setup.<br />My system uses a battery inside the receiver which will last for a month of everyday use they tell me.&nbsp;&nbsp;The kit includes a charging adaptor that uses the cigarette lighter or you can use a USB port to charge it up.&nbsp;&nbsp;The receiver is smaller than my iPhone 6.&nbsp;&nbsp;One negative on the TireTraker is that you cannot leave the system plugged in continuously, the instructions tell you to charge it regularly but don't leave it plugged in 24/7.&nbsp; The battery can be overcharged and damaged if left charging continuously.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br />The kit has a dashboard mount but I used a piece of Velcro to hold it in place.&nbsp; In the kit are included a set of locks to secure the sensors from thieves if you feel it is warranted.&nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br />Overall I have been very impressed with the quality of the&nbsp;<b>TireTraker</b>&nbsp;kit and it works great!&nbsp; I have looked at several of the competitors and they all seem to be very nice as there are several ways to get the same information.I am handicapped and don't bend very well as I crushed five discs in my lower back.&nbsp;&nbsp;Even with my limitations, it was very easy to install and setup.<br />Having a serious hearing loss I had to find a device that would get my immediate attention in times of emergency.&nbsp;&nbsp; The receiver has a little red lite that flashes very brightly as well as a loud beeper.&nbsp; When it went off I was immediately aware even with my limitations.<br /><br />Safety equipment is a "must have", and since I do most of the maintenance on my vehicle it had to be simple to maintain as well for me to buy one.&nbsp; There are some nice systems out there and I came close to buying a system with the blow through sensors but decided against it as it would require shorter valve extensions or having pressure pushing on the extension mounts.&nbsp; I really did not want to have to remove wheels to install parts.&nbsp; The system I have made it as easy as checking the pressure, just change the caps and the installation was practically done.&nbsp; The programming was easier than putting the sensor caps on.<br /><br />I am happy with my purchase and feel it was the best option for me.&nbsp; I hope that you folks that are in the market for a TPMS have an experience like mine has been.&nbsp; Life should be so simple all the time.&nbsp; Good luck and safe travels.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Chris McCloskey</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Like you, I too have the&nbsp;<b>TST 507</b>&nbsp;flow thru...I just this year replaced the batteries, even tho they were still working fine..just thought that nearly three years of use might be pushing it, and wanted to do the replacements before needed, at&nbsp;</span><i>my</i><span style="background-color: white;">&nbsp;leisure...grin.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I'm very happy with the system--and love the temp as well as pressure readings. Keeps me informed what temps are running especially when driving in the south west in 110 plus weather.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I just had a "loss of air" on the infamous inside passenger tire..the alarm told me instantly there was an issue..got me stopped asap.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The system has paid for itself several times over.&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Gini Free</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white;">Our&nbsp;</span><b style="background-color: white;">Doran RV360</b><span style="background-color: white;">&nbsp;is still working fine after five years.</span></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I wouldn't want to travel without it working.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Larry</span></span></div><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">I have the&nbsp;<b>RV 360</b>&nbsp;as well. This trip west is had trouble with two sensors intermittently losing contact with the receiver.&nbsp;&nbsp;I called the company and they confirmed my belief the batteries are getting weak.&nbsp;&nbsp;The sensor life can be prolonged by (being more diligent than I) taking the sensors off when the RV is not in use.&nbsp; I've had the system for 4-5 years.&nbsp; I purchased extra sensors for the Subaru. I need to get metal stems for the car before adding the cars to the system.&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">John DeCrema</span><br /><hr /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">More recent discussion/reviews on TPMS at:</span><br /><br /><a href="http://www.irv2.com/forums/f52/your-input-for-a-easy-use-tire-pressure-temp-sensor-system-354715-2.html" target="_blank">Your input for an Easy Use Tire Pressure/Temp Sensor System - iRV2 Forums</a><o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Ed&nbsp; G</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Do you use a repeater with your setup, Ed?</span></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Chris&nbsp;</span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">No.&nbsp;Not on our '08 MB and not on the TK. Never had a reception problem so far.</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">But I only have the sensors on the camper, not on the Jeep. The wheel style on my Jeep doesn't have holes large enough for the sensor without me adding an extension to each tire, which I rather not do.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I just keep the rear view camera on while driving and watch for black smoke which might indicate a flat tire on the Jeep.&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Ed 111</span>&nbsp;</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="background-color: white;"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">We have the&nbsp;<b>EEZ</b>&nbsp;TPMS and tow a Subaru.&nbsp; The monitor picks all 10 sensors within a few minutes and we've not lost a connection once it's turned on.&nbsp; In other words, does not need a repeater.&nbsp; This system gives us PSI and temperature readings for each tire with the capacity to change settings.&nbsp; I'm liking this.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Ed G</span></span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">If one gets the type of TPMS that plugs into a cigarette-lighter-style 12V outlet, the only installation that might be required are all metal valve stems and toad.&nbsp; The monitor for the TPMS can just sit in a drink holder or some other pocket that can be reached by the cord.&nbsp; They alarm if there is an issue, so you don't need to have the monitor "front and center" to watch for problems.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">For the dualies on the coach, you'll want to get the stems from someplace like Borg or Tireman, for the toad we used Discount Tire.&nbsp; You do not want to attach the weight of the TPMS sensors to the end of a rubber stem or flexible extender; you want solid metal valve stems (and in the case of the inner rear duallies, you want the stems supported by a stabilizer as they stick through the outer dual rims).&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">We generally advise against Camping World touching anything on a coach (although there is a handful of CWs that we have heard aren't bad.&nbsp;&nbsp;That hasn't been our experience).<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Michelle Cook</span></span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">In response to Chip, the TPMS I purchased and am trying to decide whether to keep or return is a&nbsp;<b>TireMinder</b>&nbsp;Smart TPMS that uses one's phone for displaying tire data and alerts. It's a fairly new model.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The valve cap pressure sensors communicate with a&nbsp;<b>TireMinder</b>&nbsp;module that can be placed anywhere in the cab and which then communicates with one's phone via Bluetooth. Assuming it works, I like this approach because it means one less screen in the cab.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Also, the&nbsp;<b>TireMinder</b>&nbsp;module alone will signal an alarm with just a tone and a light. You thus can check the data on your phone only when needed, not having it as a constant presence, and distraction. This is much like how factory installed TPMS works on most cars.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Our LD is a 2003 26.5' Rear Bath and we tow a Jeep Wrangler.</span>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;"><o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Terry Burnes</span></span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">I use the&nbsp;<b>TireMinder&nbsp;</b>system.&nbsp;&nbsp; Having worked as a Test Engineer in a past life I have a bit of understanding of lab vs real world situations.&nbsp; I will not nor am I able to defend any company but having said that most folks don't read the spec sheets or have expectations of equipment that the company&nbsp;will never meet.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">For instance, I did not install the wireless booster so I expect that I will lose signal from the transmitters.&nbsp;&nbsp;Also, there will be interference from assorted other wireless transmitters that a boosterless system will not be able to overcome.&nbsp; &nbsp; Having read the spec sheet I understand the system is accurate to plus or minus 3%.&nbsp; In the real world on my standard tire pressure of 75, it can read anywhere from 72 to 78 and still be within the range of 'normal'.&nbsp;&nbsp;When you toss in the tire gauge itself you could have an error of another 2 to 5%.&nbsp; If the 'errors' go in the 'wrong' direction you could have an error of 8% or more - meaning tire reading with your tire gauge could be plus or minus of 6 pds on my standard 75 tire pressure ie 69 to 81.&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">So the question is should I buy a TPMS.&nbsp;&nbsp;Frankly, I use my system because I'm lazy.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;I will know when a tire goes flat - I'm very sure of that.&nbsp;&nbsp;I use the system to 'check' the air pressure before I drive off.&nbsp;&nbsp;Yes, there is a cheaper way, like going around with a tire pressure gauge but like I said I'm lazy.&nbsp;&nbsp;This ensures in my personal life I 'check'.&nbsp;&nbsp;My recommendation --&nbsp; If you don't have an extra 300 to 400 dollars and you ALWAYS&nbsp;&nbsp;check tire pressures before you drive off to save your money.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><o:p></o:p></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Glen (colddog)</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">Other than the recent blowout, we have had a couple slow leaks.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I'm more concerned about our toad's tires, there is no way of knowing what is going other than the view from the camera.<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I know several LD owners who had flats on their toads and never knew about it until they could see smoke or passing motorist flagged them down.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">One toad burned to the ground. Preventing this alone made the purchase<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">worthwhile.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">One thing I love about the TPMS is NOT having to daily manually check the tire pressure, It takes about ten seconds to scroll through the ten tires, on the TPMS's monitor. It a real pleasure to use on a cold, rainy morning.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Not having to manually check the pressure prevent any air from being lost, during the checking, which can add up on a long trip and require adding air. I rarely add air while on the road.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I would not want a system that uses my cell phone as it's monitor, preferring it to be completely stand-alone, so nothing needs to be done other than turning on the ignition. Make it as easy on yourself as possible is my logic. YMMV</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Larry</span></span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /><span style="background-color: white;">Our TPMS-<b>TireMinder TM66</b>&nbsp;has a wireless Signal Booster. Prior to setting up the booster when I originally installed the system, I got several "warnings" of both air pressure and temperature failures.&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Since activating the booster, I have had no false warnings and one warning of a lost signal from a sensor (battery failure).&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">If the rig has been sitting in the driveway for a couple of weeks or more, I will check each tire manually. I use an analog tire pressure gauge manufactured for&nbsp;<b>TireMinder</b>which is stated to be within +/- 1 psi accuracy. The TM66 itself is stated to be within +/- 2.7 psi. This would suggest that there could be a variance of +/- 4.7psi. Is it perfectly accurate? Probably as good as others, I suppose. I have no issues with the system other than those I have mentioned.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">While traveling, I rely on the TM66 monitor to determine air pressure before hitting the road.&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">ONE THING:&nbsp;<b>TireMinder</b>&nbsp;states that a Scan of the Sensors be taken prior to departure. The manufacturer states that if the rig has been stationary for more than 9 hours a scan is needed to update the accuracy of the TPMS. It's a simple matter of pressing two buttons on the monitor and waiting about 20 minutes before departure. Then I check each tires pressure/temp via the monitor. Easily done and part of my travel routine.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I am not certain if other TPMS's need a pre-departure scan but it would seem to be a prudent action to take. If for nothing else, a little peace of mind.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Kent</span>&nbsp;</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">We started using a TPMS (<b>Pressure Pro</b>) in 2011.&nbsp; We had a situation earlier where we discovered low pressure in a toad tire that turned out to be a nail, and if we hadn't noticed the low-ish looking tire, we likely would have done damage.&nbsp;&nbsp;That tire needed repair, and a TPMS would have shown that slow leak.<br /><br />Our initial experience with&nbsp;<b>PressurePro</b>&nbsp;was frustrating.&nbsp; One seal kept causing a tire to leak down.&nbsp; We got new seals.&nbsp; Another sensor failed bizarrely reading very HIGH pressures (in a construction zone.&nbsp; In a torrential downpour).&nbsp; The sensor continued to send odd readings even when removed from the wheel.&nbsp; Tap it on the counter and the reading would change.&nbsp; Pressure Pro had never heard of such a thing.<br /><br />After replacing that sensor (and the seals in all the others), the system has been solid.&nbsp; It actually alerted us to yet another nail in a toad tire.&nbsp; We replaced all sensors in 2016 since a couple started failing (internal batteries).<br />At a minimum, we would always have a TPMS for a toad.&nbsp;&nbsp;We also like having it for the coach.&nbsp;&nbsp;Now, you do need to make sure you have one-piece metal valve stems on any wheel that has a TPMS sensor, and support any long stems with a proper stabilizing grommet (e.g. if you get Borg stems for the rear duals and they stick out through the holes in the outer duals).<br /><br />Our research showed non-replaceable battery sensors were a little lighter than those with replaceable batteries, so that's how we chose our TPMS.&nbsp; Less stress on the valve stems.&nbsp; When the current sensors start to fail we'll revisit the TPMS options at that time.<br /><br />N.B. - Valterra has purchased Minder Research, the makers of T<b>ireMinder</b>.<o:p></o:p></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Michelle Cook</span><br /><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">I don't understand why you would remove them for manual air checks? That is one of the main purposes for having them. In the case of the LD, we use flow-through sensors and they are never removed except to replace batteries. On the Subaru, we use the non-flow through so they are removed when we have to air up the tires. While we should remove sensors when parked for any extended time to preserve the battery we never remove them. So, for over 9 years now we have had TPMS on our LD.&nbsp;</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">On our previous model the&nbsp;<b>Doran RV 360</b>&nbsp;we had battery failures which required the sensors be replaced. On the&nbsp;<b>EEZ RV</b>&nbsp;model, we have used since Jan 2014 we have had one sensor fail to work properly that was replaced under warranty and other than that no air loss because of a sensor.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The only alarms we have had are the occasional beep if the monitor temporarily loses a sensor. That is partly my fault because I don't have a regular schedule for replacing batteries. Recently, I set up the repeater to see if that completely eliminates that from happening but have only used it once so can't comment on that.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">For me, TPMS is just another form of insurance and convenience. In my case, I hated checking air pressures every time we headed out.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">All that said, I agree, that they aren't perfect but it works for us.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Jim C</span></span></div><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">Our&nbsp;<b>Doran RV360 TPSM</b>&nbsp;is almost five years old, with two of the sensors replaced due to failure.</span><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><span style="background-color: white; font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;">It has worked, without failing, since new and has stayed accurate</span><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">A repeater was added early on after losing contact, at times, with the inside dual tires.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The biggest problems have been the difficulty of programming and the limited pressure differential range.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The Jeep's oversize tires often alarm low, on cold mornings, and can have a high-pressure alarm the same day, if driving on a hot day.</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I have compared the&nbsp;<b>Doran's</b>&nbsp;accuracy to several digital pressure gauges and the sensors are within a pound or two of being the same.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The&nbsp;<b>Doran</b>&nbsp;updates very quickly, even after being off overnight or days, useful for when adding air, which isn't very often.</span><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Not losing air every day, while testing, and tight Michelin tires, let us go for weeks or longer without adding air.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">In fifteen years, I have never used our 12-volt compressor, on the road, ordinarily airing up at home.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I should plug it in some time to see if it still works :-)</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The&nbsp;<b>Doran's</b>&nbsp;biggest fault is the non-replaceable batteries. On the plus side, 8 of the 10 sensors are still good after five years.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I know folks, with TPMSs, that have needed to start changing their batteries after just a year.</span>&nbsp;<span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">It would be interesting to know how many sensors fail due to battery cap seal leakage, before and after a battery replacement.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">If towing, I fully recommend a TPMS, along with a rear view camera.</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">The piece of mind is worth the cost, IMO</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">No one ever said this was going to be cheap.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Larry</span></span></div><hr /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">I first used a&nbsp;<b>TireTracker</b>&nbsp;several years ago which quit working after 3-years. I replaced that with the&nbsp;<b>TST</b>&nbsp;which has given me no problems in the last 6-years of use. The only difficulty was with the programming of the unit. However, the<b>&nbsp;TST</b>&nbsp;people easily assisted me by phone to finish the task. The tire sensors have replaceable button batteries and O-ring seals. Very easy to do. I did opt for the repeater that I placed on the back window of my RB and powered it from the light fixture above the toilet. Easy job. The tire pressures are within 1-3-lb. of my gauge. I used non-pass through sensors that require a special security wrench to remove. Still easy to do.&nbsp;<b>TST</b>does offer the pass-through sensors.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Mike, 2010RB<o:p></o:p></span></span></div><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: white;">First, a big thank you to those who do the heavy lifting on the LDO forum and make it possible for newbies like me to read and learn from those willing to share their expertise and experience.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">I think it had a lot to do with my positive experience using a few of the products and services recommended by others on this site during this recent string of unplanned LD related events over the past couple of weeks.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">It started with installing the 2nd hand TST 507 TPMS that I found didn't work due to a broken antennae solder connection.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">That led to an email to&nbsp;<b>TST</b>&nbsp;support, which promptly replied I could make a warranty claim since it was under 3yrs old or upgrade to the latest color version for $99.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Mike Benson,&nbsp;</span><a href="mailto:mbenson@tsttruck.com" style="text-decoration: none;">mbenson@tsttruck.com</a><span style="background-color: white;">, said they are offering the new color monitor to existing customers at a "discount" and others if they call and ask.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Ordered a new&nbsp;<b>TST 507</b>&nbsp;cap set that comes with a color monitor, 4 sensors, and repeater for $318 since I wanted 4 more sensors for the toad.&nbsp; Plus I sent in the old one for the warranty claim and both arrived within a week.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Went to install the TPMS again before our trip and developed a valve stem leak on the outer curbside dually when testing out the new TPMS.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Dropped off the LD at Les Schwab in Elk Grove who replaced the valve stem for free but also put on a stem that was too short and not centered on the hole since they said that was all they had.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Left for the trip with the TPMS gadgets in the box and minus one wheel cover since it touched the edge of the new valve stem when installed.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Returned to S&amp;B from a trip and checked the tire pressure the next day and discovered the valve stem on the inner curbside dually was broken off at the base.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Called Progressive Insurance partnered with USAA on the chance it was covered under the roadside assistance and it was.&nbsp; The service tech showed up at the S&amp;B within 30min of calling and put on the spare.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Called&nbsp;</span><u>Six Robbless</u><span style="background-color: white;">&nbsp;and ordered the DL1EC brass Dually valve kit for less than anywhere else I could find - you have to call since they do not list the valve stems on their site.&nbsp; Received the tracking number via email within a couple of hours.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">So, all in all, we got a ton of good info out of this event and trip.&nbsp; Found out&nbsp;<b>TST</b>&nbsp;now has a color monitor, good support and warranty policy, Les Schwab has good customer service but should probably not be the ones to install the new valves without more direction, Progressive insurance partnered with USAA has excellent roadside assistance - at least in Sacramento area, Six Robblees has excellent customer service and prices, and the LD can go at least 5hrs and 250mi on half a dually though not recommended.</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Sometimes things go your way - whew!</span><br /><br /><span style="background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;">Rich Meek</span></span><br /><hr /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">I've been using the <b>Tire Minder TM66 </b>since we started traveling in our LD.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><a class="bbc_link" href="https://youtu.be/FA1ZHbWcEnc" style="box-shadow: rgb(206, 220, 203) 0px -1px 0px inset; color: #377828; display: inline-block; font-family: 'open sans', arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px; max-width: 100%; overflow: hidden; text-decoration: none; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap; word-wrap: normal;" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/FA1ZHbWcEnc</a><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">&nbsp;Along with the TPMS, be sure to pick up an accurate tire pressure gauge that you will need to insure the TPMS accuracy.</span><br /><br style="color: #333333; font-family: 'open sans', arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">My first choice of pressure gauges was the Tire Minder Analog (needle style read out) gauge but found that accurately assessing the pressure very difficult. This required me to take the tire stem sensor of the TPMS off several times before I could find the right pressure. Very frustrating to say the least.</span><br /><br style="color: #333333; font-family: 'open sans', arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">I recently purchased the Tire Minder Digital pressure guage and while I haven't used it yet I can only imagine how much easier it will be to see what pressure I have added to the tires.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><a class="bbc_link" href="https://youtu.be/DopVLHn1iyc" style="box-shadow: rgb(206, 220, 203) 0px -1px 0px inset; color: #377828; display: inline-block; font-family: 'open sans', arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px; max-width: 100%; overflow: hidden; text-decoration: none; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap; word-wrap: normal;" target="_blank">https://youtu.be/DopVLHn1iyc</a><br /><br style="color: #333333; font-family: 'open sans', arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">Picked mine up on Amazon for $25. it's the best price I have found for this particular guage. I believe the video states the guage is accurate to +/- 1 psi but the package states it to be accurate to +/- 2 psi. Still not bad and a better option than its analog kin.</span><br /><br style="color: #333333; font-family: 'open sans', arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;" /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">A good TPMS is essential. Makes heading down the road so much more relaxing. You have enough to think about while driving your new LD. Like what's for lunch or where is the nearest Starbucks.</span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">Kent H</span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;arial&quot; , &quot;helvetica&quot; , sans-serif;"></span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #333333; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px;">Nov. 2017</span></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div><div class="grammarly-disable-indicator"></div>Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-35819590843438150152017-11-12T21:44:00.001-06:002017-11-21T13:24:31.103-06:00Intermittent Cruise Control<div class="inner" id="msg_180060" style="-webkit-hyphens: auto; border-top-color: rgb(191, 191, 191); border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px; margin: 0px; min-height: 70px; padding: 7px 8px 2px 2px; word-wrap: break-word;">We've had a worsening problem with intermittent cruise control operation on our late 2003 E450. The cruise control operated as it should for many years, but then we began to experience periods when it wouldn't activate. This got steadily worse until on our last trip it hardly worked at all, despite pushing all the steering wheel controls repeatedly and in various orders and checking other things.<br /><br />A post on this site and a number of posts elsewhere suggest that the most likely culprit in this situation is the cruise control deactivation pressure switch on the bottom of the brake master cylinder. This switch provides redundancy to the mechanical switch on the brake pedal, creating two ways that the cruise control is deactivated when the brakes are activated.<br /><br />Similar switches have been the subject of recalls on various Ford vehicles due to the slight risk of fire should they leak, resulting in brake fluid reaching the electrical contacts and igniting. That can apparently happen even when the vehicle is parked. But our E450 was not part of that recall, having been built in May 2003 after the problem was presumably solved.<br /><br />That doesn't mean that this switch can't fail though, and when it does it fails so as to leave the cruise control deactivated, which makes sense. In our case and many others, this seems to happen slowly with the switch working sometimes and not others.<br /><br />I ordered a new switch here:<br /><br /><a class="bbc_link" href="https://www.ebay.com/itm/263221277419" style="box-shadow: rgb(206, 220, 203) 0px -1px 0px inset; color: #377828; display: inline-block; max-width: 100%; overflow: hidden; text-decoration: none; text-overflow: ellipsis; vertical-align: bottom; white-space: nowrap; word-wrap: normal;" target="_blank">New Motorcraft SW-6350 Cruise Control Cutout Switch 1L1Z-9F924-AA * P184 * |...</a><br /><br />[If the eBay link above goes dead, Google for Motorcraft SW-6360]<br /><br />That is actually a kit for replacing the switch "in kind" on newer vehicles like ours and also apparently upgrading the switch on older vehicles that used a different one. Thus it includes a short wiring harness to adapt the old electrical connection to the new switch. It's actually useful to have that even if you don't need it, as it allows you to clearly understand how the connector detaches from and attaches to the switch, always an annoying step when working with automotive electrical connectors. Sometimes figuring out how they work is the hardest part of a job like this.<br /><br />To gain access to the switch I worked from the fender on the driver's side of the engine bay. I removed the three bolts that hold the round plastic coolant reservoir and moved it out of the way. No need to detach its plumbing. Leave the cap on and no coolant will spill. Then I moved some other cables out of the way and held them aside temporarily with zip ties.<br /><br />I then placed a towel down under the switch to catch the few drops of brake fluid that will result from this and to catch any dropped tools or parts and keep them from descending into the nether regions of the engine bay.<br /><br />Then I removed the electrical connector from the old switch. Use the wiring harness that came with the new switch to figure out how to do that. Then I removed the switch itself. Both my old and new switches require a 7/8" wrench. Older switches might be different. I just used a small crescent wrench to loosen the switch and then removed it the rest of the way by hand. The shorter the wrench the better as space is tight.<br /><br />Before you fully remove the switch note that it is tapped into the brake master cylinder at an angle. You will need to install the new switch at the same angle. Failure to notice this could result in a lot of frustration when trying to thread the new switch into its receptacle. You'll get a few drops of brake fluid coming out with the old switch. But provided you leave the cap on the master cylinder reservoir you won't get any ongoing dripping from the hole into which the switch is threaded.<br /><br />I hand tightened the new switch and then snugged it up tight with the crescent wrench. Don't over tighten. I then reconnected the wiring and went for a drive and the cruise control worked flawlessly. I'll be keeping an eye on the new switch for awhile to be sure it isn't leaking brake fluid.<br /><br />It's very gratifying to fix something like this, that has been an ongoing and puzzling annoyance, for the grand sum of $18 and about 15 minutes of time. As opposed to going to a mechanic who might or might not know about this problem and who could spend hours going through all the steps for diagnosing cruise control problems and/or replacing several much more expensive parts before finding the culprit and fixing it. A process that would be made more difficult if the cruise control happened to be working while it was in for diagnosis.<br /><br />If your cruise control is intermittent or not working I suggest giving this a try as a first step.</div><div class="inner" id="msg_180060" style="-webkit-hyphens: auto; border-top-color: rgb(191, 191, 191); border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px; margin: 0px; min-height: 70px; padding: 7px 8px 2px 2px; word-wrap: break-word;">Terry Burnes - October 2017<br /><br />A slightly helpful <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mICxnDTTIJI" target="_blank">YouTube</a>.</div><div class="inner" id="msg_180060" style="-webkit-hyphens: auto; border-top-color: rgb(191, 191, 191); border-top-style: solid; border-top-width: 1px; color: #333333; font-family: 'Open Sans', Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994000434875488px; margin: 0px; min-height: 70px; padding: 7px 8px 2px 2px; 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display: block; float: left; line-height: 2em; margin: 2px 0px; padding: 1px 6px 0px 22px; text-decoration: none;">Quote</a></li></ul>Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-3233364501166668622017-11-08T09:07:00.000-06:002017-12-11T18:05:33.282-06:00The RV Battery Charging PuzzleThis was taken from HandyBob's Blog. This is&nbsp;<a href="https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/" target="_blank">the link</a>.<br />It's long, but filled with excellent information.<br /><br />He may update the article with new information. He could also delete his blog. So to prevent a&nbsp;possible&nbsp;dead link, here is his article as of&nbsp;November,&nbsp;2017.<br /><br /><br /><header class="site-header clearfix" id="masthead" role="banner" style="background-color: #e6e6e6; color: #666666; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; hyphens: auto; margin: 50px 0px; word-wrap: break-word;"><hgroup style="display: inline-block; padding: 0.75em 1em;"><h1 class="site-title" style="border: 0px; clear: both; color: #414141; font-size: 24px; font-style: inherit; line-height: 30px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/" rel="home" style="border: 0px; color: #414141; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;" title="HandyBob's Blog">HandyBob's Blog</a></h1><h2 class="site-description" style="border: 0px; clear: both; color: #414141; font-size: 16px; font-style: inherit; line-height: 28px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Making off grid RV electrical systems work</h2></hgroup><nav class="site-navigation main-navigation" role="navigation" style="float: right;"><h1 class="assistive-text" style="border: 0px; clear: both; clip: rect(1px 1px 1px 1px); color: #414141; font-size: 24px; font-style: inherit; line-height: 30px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; position: absolute !important; vertical-align: baseline;">Menu</h1><div class="assistive-text skip-link" style="border: 0px; clip: rect(1px 1px 1px 1px); font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; position: absolute !important; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/the-rv-battery-charging-puzzle-2/#content" style="border: 0px; color: #4c4c4c; display: block; font-family: inherit; font-size: 13px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0.75em 1em; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;" title="Skip to content">Skip to content</a></div><div class="menu" style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><ul style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://handybobsolar.wordpress.com/" rel="home" style="border: 0px; color: #414141; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;" title="HandyBob's Blog"><img alt="" height="249" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/cropped-cropped-129-2939_img1.jpg" style="border: 0px; height: auto; max-width: 100%;" width="960" /></a></ul></div></nav></header><br /><div class="site-main" id="main" style="background-color: #e6e6e6; border: 0px; color: #666666; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><div class="content-area" id="primary" style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px 0px 45px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><div class="site-content" id="content" role="main" style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><br /><br /><article class="clearfix post-86 page type-page status-publish hentry" id="post-86" style="border-top: 1px solid rgb(220, 220, 220); position: relative;"><header class="entry-header" style="border: none; float: none; hyphens: auto; margin: 0px 0px 35px; padding-top: 0px; position: relative; text-align: center; top: -20px; width: auto; word-wrap: break-word;"><h1 class="entry-title" style="background-color: #4c4c4c; border: 0px; clear: both; color: white; display: inline-block; font-size: 16px; font-style: inherit; font-weight: normal; line-height: 22px; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 8px 25px; position: relative; vertical-align: baseline;">The RV BATTERY CHARGING&nbsp;PUZZLE</h1></header><div class="entry-content clearfix" style="border: 0px; float: none; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; hyphens: auto; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; width: auto; word-wrap: break-word;"><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Written in 2004 and continuously updated since. Last extensively revised December, 2010. Make sure to look at the home page and FAQ’s for updates.&nbsp; I get a lot of questions from people who have not read the whole thing.&nbsp; I know it is long and some complain about that.&nbsp; Can anybody show me how to shorten it while still keeping all of required information?&nbsp; Now in April 2012 I just added some clarifications that were needed and made it even longer.&nbsp; There are more current recommendations in my newer RV Solar Quick Answer?</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">By Bob Shearer, AKA HandyBob</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-align: center; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Clean those panels!" class="aligncenter" height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/april-24-09-clean-those-panels.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="clear: both; display: block; height: auto; margin: 0px auto; max-width: 100%;" title="April 24, 09 Clean those panels!" width="440" />April 24, 2009. Time to clean those panels.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">My wife and I are full-time RV boondockers.&nbsp; (No, we don’t live at Walmart.&nbsp; They are not in the boondocks.)&nbsp; We successfully run our fifth wheel’s electrical system on batteries charged with solar power and do NOT own a generator.&nbsp; Contrary to what you have probably read in other places; it is possible to run a coffee maker and a toaster on battery power.&nbsp; The only time we have been plugged in for over six years has been to run air conditioning or when we have been stuck for over three days &amp; covered with snow.&nbsp; No, we don’t act like we are plugged in and leave everything on all the time and yes, we do have to conserve if the sun doesn’t shine, but we still use the Mr. Coffee &amp; watch a 19 inch TV for several hours every day.&nbsp; I have a background in electrical engineering and electrical equipment sales and have spent quite a lot of time and experimentation in figuring out how to make an RV system work. It is different from designing buildings.&nbsp; I have rewired my system three times, had three different sets of batteries and five charge controllers.&nbsp; So, when I tell you it is possible to run on your batteries, you can believe me.&nbsp; We do it.&nbsp; The folks in the RV industry are not the people to go to when you need honest information.&nbsp; Everybody you talk to has an agenda and you need to ask yourself what that agenda is before you believe what they say.&nbsp; For instance, the RV manufacturer, who is in bed with the RV park industry, will tell you that they put in a battery charger, but he is lying to you about that (see converters, page 4), so you will end up needing to be plugged in at an RV park.&nbsp; The solar panel salesman might tell you to put in #12 wires, knowing that it is going to soak up a lot of the power from your panels.&nbsp; He will also tell you that the charge controller’s factory’s voltage setting is high enough, when in truth your batteries will never get full at that setting.&nbsp; That way you will go back to buy more panels in order to get the same amount of power you might have if you had used larger wire and set your voltage up to the proper level, so he gets to make more money. &nbsp;The battery salesman will tell you to buy more batteries than your charger has the ability to maintain, so he can make more money.&nbsp; How can you tell if a salesman is lying to you?&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;His lips are moving!</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">My agenda?&nbsp; I am trying to get back the peace and quiet we used to have during the evenings when we are out camping and enjoying conversations or the sounds of nature around the campfire.&nbsp; More and more these days what we are hearing is the drone of generators, when they really are unnecessary except for cooking and occasional battery charging, which can both be done at times that should not bother your neighbors.&nbsp; I’ll never understand why so many people have to be told when running a generator is inconsiderate.&nbsp; Many seem to think that any time they want power, 24 hours a day, is acceptable.&nbsp; That is just fine if you don’t want to make new friends, but most of us don’t want to be kept awake, woke up early or be forced to listen to generators when we are trying to converse during meals, happy hour or night time campfire.&nbsp; Even those “quiet” generators make noise when several are running.&nbsp; You can charge in the middle of the day when you won’t bother anybody and use power quietly during the evening.&nbsp; I’ll never forget how one of our best boondocking friends once asked me to look at his batteries &amp; charging because he was having problems.&nbsp; I had never heard a generator running near their rig and had been assuming that they had solar panels.&nbsp; When I asked how many panels he had, he responded with “none”.&nbsp; &nbsp; Positive proof that you don’t need to be inconsiderate with the use of a generator in order to boondock.&nbsp; It turned out that he was having a charger problem that was easily fixed. &nbsp; There are already countless books and articles written about the technical side of this problem, but none of them that I have read do an adequate job of emphasizing the most important parts of the battery system puzzle.&nbsp; I am supplying this information as a supplement, not replacement, to what is already out there in the hope that I can help quiet things down and to educate my RV friends so they don’t waste their money on things that don’t work.&nbsp; I evaluate electrical systems, perform repairs and some solar installations, but I’m not selling equipment, so I have nothing to gain if you listen to me, except to live in a quieter world.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">I</strong>&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">am not trying to sell you anything.</strong></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Don’t jump to the usual conclusion.&nbsp; Although it would be nice if everybody could, I am not telling anyone to spend thousands of dollars on solar gear.&nbsp; Some of our best boondocking friends do not have solar panels and they don’t run generators inconsiderately.&nbsp; I am saying that you need to learn how to use and charge your batteries.&nbsp; Think about this.&nbsp;&nbsp; Many of us RV’ers are successfully running our TV’s, computers, etc. without running a generator all the time, so it is possible.&nbsp; Don’t assume that since you and your neighbor have your generators running, everybody does.&nbsp; You would be very surprised at what is going on in some of those RV’s while no noise is being generated.&nbsp; Here I sit at my lap top, with the TV &amp; several lights on.&nbsp; From outside you can’t tell what I’m doing, but you can hear the two “quiet” Hondas that are both about a quarter of a mile away.&nbsp; Running on batteries is cheaper than having that generator running, burning gas &amp; wearing out while it is putting out a very small amount of power to run something like a TV or your lights. I see folks running 2000 watt generators to power 50 watt loads all the time.&nbsp; That is only 2 1/2% of the rating, and that is ridiculous.&nbsp; Do you start your generator every time you run your seven amp (90 watt) water pump?&nbsp; Yes, batteries wear out faster when you use them more, but they cost less than fueling &amp; maintaining a generator.&nbsp; On the other hand, they last a lot longer if you charge them all the way up at least weekly.&nbsp; Why do you have batteries if you’re not going to use them?&nbsp; You can charge your batteries either by spending hundreds on a generator &amp; some charging equipment, which you can run as needed when it won’t bother your friends &amp; neighbors or you can spend thousands on solar equipment.&nbsp; Either way can work.&nbsp; Yes, you may need to spend a bit on a small inverter to run that TV and you may need to do some wiring in your rig to get enough power to it so it will work right, but this will cost less than you think.&nbsp; Those of you that have tried to run your TV with a small inverter plugged into a 12 volt outlet and failed because the inverter beeped &amp; shut down are the victim of voltage drop problems, not the wattage rating of the inverter.&nbsp; You either need to run bigger wires from the battery to the inverter or move the inverter close to the batteries and use a long 120 volt cord to the TV.&nbsp; Voltage drop is not a problem on the 120 volt side.&nbsp; (Ten times the voltage = 1/10 the amps = 100 times the distance.)</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">While I’d like to keep this simple, there are a few basics that you must understand in order to make your system work.&nbsp; Here is my version of how DC (direct current) electricity works.&nbsp; On one hand we have air pressure; on the other hand electricity.&nbsp; If you want to air up a truck tire you force a volume of air (cubic feet) into it with pounds per square inch (pressure) of air until it is full.&nbsp; It is easy to get the first few cubic feet of air in; you can even do it with a hand pump.&nbsp; The fuller it gets though, the more pressure you need.&nbsp; You can’t get it up to 80 pounds unless your hose puts out more pressure than that.&nbsp; An air hose with 75 pounds of pressure in it will never fill a tire to 80 pounds.&nbsp; Batteries are not sponges that soak up amps.&nbsp; They are a lot more like tires that need to be filled up with air pressure.&nbsp; You need volts (pressure) to get the amps (volume) to go into the battery.&nbsp; Unless you have enough volts to push the amps into the battery, they just won’t go in.&nbsp; Batteries self regulate the amps they will accept depending on level of charge and voltage.&nbsp; The amps going in will drop as the battery fills, and if the voltage is not high enough the battery will not be charged all the way up before the amps taper off. &nbsp;&nbsp;Trying to charge a battery with too few volts is just like trying to air up a tire with too few pounds of pressure.&nbsp; It just doesn’t get the battery all the way full.&nbsp; Just like you can use the volume of air that comes out of an air hose to do work, like run an air wrench, you can use the amps in a battery to run electrical appliances.&nbsp; An amp hour is a way of defining power available or used.&nbsp; It is like volume over time.&nbsp; If you want to run an appliance it will take whatever number of amps for the period of time it runs and by combining the two (amp hours), you get a way of defining the power you need to store in a battery if you want to run that appliance at a later time.&nbsp; Watts (volts times amps) is actually a more accurate way of defining energy, which is why the power companies bill you for watts or kilowatts, but it is much easier for us to deal with this issue in a battery powered world by using amps times hours and assuming an average of 12 volts, even though a healthy 12 volt system is never really that low.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">VOLTAGE:</strong>&nbsp;For the sake of simplicity, I am only going to talk about the requirements of standard flooded wet cell lead acid batteries, which is what most of us use.&nbsp; The major points apply to all types of batteries, but the actual numbers will vary.&nbsp; It is very important for you to research the charging requirements of your batteries if you are using any other type and make sure that your charging system provides what they need, or you could end up damaging them by over charging or never getting them fully charged, which will also damage them.&nbsp; Battery manufacturer’s specifications say that a standard 12 volt wet cell battery needs to be charged to between 14.4 to 14.8V and then&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">held there</strong>&nbsp;for some time before it will be fully charged.&nbsp; The Trojan Battery company says 14.8V daily charge (at 77 degrees F) and Interstate will tell you over 15V.&nbsp; Trojan’s 2010 Users Guide has a new chart that shows you should actually vary the voltage depending on the amps you supply for charging and even higher voltages are recommended.&nbsp; Of course they recommend temperature regulation.&nbsp; So all of those out there who are telling you 14.8V is too high do not know what they are talking about.&nbsp; How long it takes to get the charge in depends on how far it was discharged.&nbsp; Trojan says to keep charging until a hydrometer test shows that the battery is charged and not one charger available today can do this.&nbsp; The best chargers can do a reasonable guess at state of charge by providing constant voltage and watching the amps taper as the battery fills to tell them when the battery is full.&nbsp; However, they rely on whatever the designer or programmer gives them for guidelines and are only as good as that data.&nbsp; Many do no work worth a hoot. &nbsp;A fully charged battery can be maintained at a full state by applying a 13.2 – 13.6 volts “float” charge.&nbsp; All of the talk about how many amps a charger puts out means nothing.&nbsp; It is the volts (pressure) that you need to push the amps (volume) into a battery.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">VOLTS, VOLTS, VOLTS!!</strong>&nbsp;Also, the amps pushed into a battery at a higher voltage contain more power than those at a lower voltage.&nbsp; Remember, volts times amps equals watts, so amps pushed at 10% higher volts give you 10% more watts.&nbsp; Therefore, the power stored in the upper range of a battery’s charge is greater, so it is very important to get a full charge.&nbsp; Low voltage DC is not easy to get through wire without losing power due to voltage drop or resistance.&nbsp; It is huge problem in an RV. &nbsp;Use big wires and short wiring runs to get around this.&nbsp; It is good practice to use one or even two sizes bigger wire than recommended to limit voltage drop.&nbsp; This charge voltage has to actually reach the battery, not just the output terminals on a charger.&nbsp; If you cannot get your batteries up to 14.4 volts (14.8 is better &amp; faster) with whatever charging system you have and then keep them there while pushing amps in for more than an hour or two, your batteries will never be full.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Added in 2014:&nbsp;&nbsp;</strong>Please realize that the message here is for off grid living, not for being plugged in at an RV park.&nbsp; A converter that is set lower but left plugged in 24/7 may eventually fill a battery.&nbsp; It may not, too, but it doesn’t need to be set at 14.8V to work.&nbsp; Buy a hydrometer if you want to know.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">BATTERY</strong><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">&nbsp;MONITORS:</strong>&nbsp;The RV industry has really let us down.&nbsp; First of all, you can’t believe the little “idiot light” panel that came in your rig.&nbsp; That thing is very optimistic and tells you the batteries are full at 13.4 volts, when they are actually nowhere near it (14.4 volts).&nbsp; It works by looking at the voltage present on the wiring, which will be much higher than the battery voltage while charging &amp; much lower than the battery voltage when running loads.&nbsp; If it says your batteries are “full” while you are charging, you could be anywhere from 40% to fully charged.&nbsp; People that run their generator until the idiot light says “full” are only getting their batteries up to about 40 or 50%.&nbsp; They start their evening at the point my system would get down to after a week of rainy days.&nbsp; Last, if the monitor says your batteries are “fair” when you are not running anything, they are DEAD.&nbsp; So, how can you tell if your batteries are really getting fully charged?&nbsp; The most accurate way is to test the battery electrolyte with a hydrometer.&nbsp; A hydrometer with a tube float inside it like the $5 one from an automotive store works just fine (they used to cost this much).&nbsp; This is messy and not very convenient, but if you want to know for sure this is what you have to do.&nbsp; The easy (but not as accurate) way is to buy a cheap little volt meter and measure at any point in your rig (12 volt outlet, light or fuse panel) after the batteries have been resting for over an hour.&nbsp; Both charging and loading will cause false readings.&nbsp; A resting, full battery will test at about 12.7 volts.&nbsp; A resting, dead battery will test at 11.8 volts.&nbsp; Yes, that dead battery will still provide some power, but you are destroying it by letting it get that low.&nbsp; That magic 50% level that most folks say you should stay above for good battery life is about 12.2 volts.&nbsp; Campers generally don’t get decent life out of their batteries because they run them down too low and don’t keep them charged up, causing sulfating and stratification.&nbsp; My first set of RV batteries lasted less than two years.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">RECORDING METERS:&nbsp;</strong>I used to tell people that the $200 “e meter” amp hour meters like the Link or Trimetric are a toy that you really don’t need.&nbsp; After all, your inverter remote or charge controller has a volt meter on it, and many have ammeters, but if you think about where they are connected you will realize that they don’t give you very reliable data.&nbsp; When I installed a Link 10 was when I started to understand how battery power works. &nbsp;You should buy one of these before you spend a dime on solar power.&nbsp; Trying to run a battery system without a good meter is like driving a car with no fuel gauge.&nbsp; You end up spending your time worrying and stopping to fill up instead of driving.&nbsp; At a glance, we know exactly where the batteries are.&nbsp; We have discovered that most electrical appliances use a lot less power than we thought and we now have confidence in our system.&nbsp; We love to show off by inviting folks over for solar waffles for breakfast.&nbsp; “Can we use the microwave for dinner?&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Well, the meter says we are only 30 amp hours in the hole and we could go down as low as a couple of hundred before worrying, so go right ahead.”&nbsp; Or, “It’s been raining for two days and we’re down 150 amp hours (@68%).&nbsp; Maybe we should light the oven.”&nbsp; (We get quite a bit of power from our solar panels on rainy days, so that 150 amp hours is reasonable, but you would never know it by looking at a volt meter.)&nbsp; My wife gets quite a kick out of watching the amp hours go down and then right back up again when she runs the iron or the hair dryer on sunny days.&nbsp; This is very cool.&nbsp; Now, a caution or two about these gizmos; My Link had a very weird idea of what a fully charged battery is, because the default setting is only 13.4 volts, way too low.&nbsp; It also has an automatic charge coefficient calculator that jumped around so much in our rig that it gave us very unreliable data.&nbsp; I ended up locking that and changing it as the batteries aged.&nbsp; I also had to change it when going from six batteries back down to four after figuring out that it was a better balance with the charging that my solar provides.&nbsp; You do need to get technical here and get involved in the programming.&nbsp; On the plus side, one of these tells you the voltage right at the battery terminals and how much current (amps) is going in or out, and records the amp hours used, something that tells you how well your system is actually working and helps you figure how much power any appliance actually uses.&nbsp; If you have one of these, you don’t need the expensive remote readout that is optional on the better solar charge controllers.&nbsp; We loved our Link.&nbsp; The newer Tri-metric 2020 and 2025 meters (<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">bogartengineering.com</strong>) are even better, lower priced, easier to wire and program and that is what we now have. &nbsp;(I have installed scores of them and everyone who has one loves it).&nbsp; The instructions include an explanation of charger settings that agrees with what I say above.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The percent of charge readout is all most folks ever need to look at, except for occasionally checking volts &amp; amps just to watch for changes in system performance.&nbsp; It is like keeping an eye on your blood pressure.&nbsp; I’ve seen a couple of problems with the old Trace TM500.&nbsp; It connects with a phone cable to a printed circuit board located on a shunt at the batteries.&nbsp; I believe the problems are caused by having that circuit board in a harsh environment like an RV battery compartment, which in some motor homes is outside behind the wheels in the dust, water, slush &amp; worse.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Let me give you an example or two about how most appliances use a lot less power than we thought:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Our water pump is labeled 7 amps, but it actually measures 2.9 amps (less than half).</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Our 19” wide screen LCD TV is labeled 40 watts, which calculates to about 4 amps on 12VDC, but it actually measures 2.7 amps, 30% less.&nbsp; Every TV I have measured has been similar.&nbsp; They are getting better.&nbsp; I recently saw a 26″ LED set that uses the same amps as my older 19″.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Our Mr. Coffee drip coffee maker is labeled 600 watts, which calculates to about 60 amps on 12VDC, but it actually measures only 44 amps (maybe 450 watts) and brews a 4 cup pot on only 7 amp hours, about twenty minutes of sun for our system.&nbsp; We run the toaster with ten amp hours, a bit over a half an hour of sun.&nbsp; The labels are required by law, but there is no accuracy required.&nbsp; The label has to show what the appliance will not exceed, not the actual energy use.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">According to the usual chart in a solar catalog our bed warmer should take about 20 amp hours, while we run it on less than a fourth of that.&nbsp; Of course, we don’t set it on high.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">They say standard refrigerators use about 150 amp hours per day, while a friend’s energy star rated, but 22 cubic foot one runs on just over 100.&nbsp; Small freezers use a lot less than you would think.&nbsp; If your system can run one down in your cool RV basement during the cool winter days on the output from less than two solar panels, then it will work just as well when the temperature is warmer, but the charging days are much longer.&nbsp; The government required label is based on a warm environment.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">CPAP</strong>&nbsp;(breathing) machine with a humidifier that everybody seems to think requires a generator running all night will run on about 30 amp hours, the output of only one solar panel.&nbsp; Let’s see; a single cylinder gas engine that might run out of fuel &amp; die (or that your incensed neighbor might sabotage – it has happened) or a very reliable battery &amp; inverter.&nbsp; We ran into one guy in a tent who had figured out how to run his on one small car battery that he recharged while driving with jumper cables.&nbsp; Use your brain folks.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Get a good meter first and you can learn how to manage your power needs, running the generator only when and as much as you need to.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">You cannot guess what your power needs are, you need to measure.</strong>&nbsp;Then if you can afford it, you can size your solar system with facts instead of a salesman’s high estimates designed to get you to spend more money.&nbsp; If you listen to them you will be sizing your system for higher than true loads and then applying a fudge factor above that, which can double the cost.&nbsp; Let’s see; buy a $200 meter that will improve your life or another two or three solar panels.&nbsp; This is a no brainer.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">You say that you can’t get through the evening on your batteries?</strong>&nbsp;Most likely that means that you aren’t starting the evening with fully charged batteries.&nbsp; You might need new or even more batteries, but your basic smaller RV should run through an evening on only one battery, even if powering a small TV or stereo.&nbsp; Those of you with only two golf cart batteries in your big rig should be able to run a 27” TV all evening on less than 50% of your charge.&nbsp; 50% of 225 amp hours capacity, less a few amps for lights, etc. or about 100 amp hours will run that 12 amp (150 watt) load for over eight hours.&nbsp; If you can’t do that, your batteries were not full at the start of the evening, or you may be obsessing over a volt meter reading that is low due to having loads running.&nbsp; Go back a couple of paragraphs.&nbsp; We go for days of rain in our rig while still running the coffee maker, 19 inch TV and other normal loads, so I am getting tired of people telling me they can’t get through just one evening without a generator.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">You can!</strong>&nbsp;You just have to figure out how to&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">charge</span>&nbsp;your batteries.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">JUST WHAT IS A FULL&nbsp;</strong><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">BATTERY</strong><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">??</strong>&nbsp;The general consensus on this issue is not correct and this is the primary reason that most RV electrical systems do not work very well.&nbsp; The batteries in my rig show 12.8 volts after the sun goes down and will usually show 12.5-12.7 after watching TV &amp; running lights all evening.&nbsp; I typically see 12.5-12.6 on the meter if I manage to get up before the sun rises, but the truth is that I had to look at it as I wrote this because we never look at the voltage, using the percent of charge on our meter instead.&nbsp; These same batteries used to work like everybody else’s before I figured this out, so this is fact, not opinion.&nbsp; My charger works so well because it is set to get the batteries up to 14.8 volts (temperature compensated) and hold them there until charged and since it is solar, it runs all day. &nbsp; We often see well over 15V on cold days; that is what it takes to charge a cold battery.&nbsp; It is so important to get your batteries full because a 95% charged battery has 10% less usable power in it than a 100% charged one, since you are trying to keep it in the top 50% of its operating range (5% of full = 10% of 50%.)</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">BATTERIES:</strong>&nbsp;This one place where I believe that you truly do get what you pay for. &nbsp;You will run into people with all kinds of conflicting advice on batteries and the glossy marketing from every company will tell you that they are the greatest.&nbsp; Don’t believe everything you read.&nbsp; After over ten years of experience, here is my advice: &nbsp;&nbsp;If you decide to buy new batteries, get the six volt, golf cart type and run two of them in series to get 12 volts. &nbsp;The differences between batteries average out this way and they match up better. &nbsp;&nbsp;If you will do this, you will get better than twice the life of the standard 12 volt marine battery and around 20% more power.&nbsp; They are built heavier and work much better.&nbsp; Think about how people with golf carts and lift trucks abuse these batteries.&nbsp; Do not mix battery types or brands in one system.&nbsp; Mismatched batteries will charge each other at night, causing shorter life.&nbsp; I bought Trojan T105’s because I talked to many people that had them and found no dissatisfied customers.&nbsp; The only complaints I have ever heard about Trojan were concerning price or came from a dealer selling something else (sour grapes).&nbsp; Mine were over eight years old when I replaced them with some used but newer Trojans and they are still operating a construction power system on a storage shed up in Montana.&nbsp; They are weak, but have no dead cells.&nbsp; If Trojans were even 25% more than some cheap brand, I would still buy them.&nbsp; (Make sure to read my later posts about battery manufacturers.)&nbsp; There are others with a good reputation, just remember not to believe everything you read in anybody’s glossy brochures. &nbsp;I only got one year out of a set of deep cycle 12 volt marine batteries that never tested the same as each other.&nbsp; You can’t always compare amp hour ratings because the different manufacturers like to play games with their numbers and use differing rates of draw.&nbsp; Recently (spring 2007) Interstate had some problems and I still keep running into folks with bad Interstate batteries.&nbsp; I think they had a bad production run.&nbsp; One dealer I talked to about the problem tried to tell me that a hydrometer is not an accurate way to tell if an Interstate battery is fully charged and the new Interstates run at a lower voltage.&nbsp;&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Huh</span>? &nbsp;Interstate has published nothing that he could produce to confirm his statements, so I think we were getting the brush off.&nbsp; The replacement Interstates (a different model than originally purchased) tested just fine with a hydrometer and charged right up the first day of full sun, and I believe the technical data I got from Trojan, who say that a hydrometer is the best way to tell.&nbsp; Today (December 2010) I could give you names &amp; phone numbers of friends who have been fighting with Interstate about batteries that just will not take a full charge.&nbsp; Their batteries will never show a full charge using a hydrometer and they do show voltage that is lower than it should be when under load, but the Interstate shop tells them that they are “within specs” and there is nothing they can or will do.&nbsp; This is not how a quality manufacturer acts.&nbsp; Wait a minute, Interstate doesn’t really manufacture these.&nbsp; There is an inconvenient truth for you!</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Should you buy AGM or whatever new battery comes along?&nbsp; Do your own research, ask everybody you run into about their experience, weigh that advice with common sense and make your decision.&nbsp; My decision was based on value and history and it may very well be different in the future, since no battery lasts forever. Just be very careful about researching the charging requirements of whatever you decide on.&nbsp; Get this information from the battery manufacturer, not from the manufacturer of your charge controller.&nbsp; This is critical if you want the batteries to get fully charged and to last.&nbsp; Morningstar told me exactly this when I asked them about how they arrived at their new L-16 charge settings, while Blue Sky argued with me and told me Trojan was wrong.&nbsp; This speaks volumes to me about the differences between these two companies.&nbsp; Here is a little known fact for you: Morningstar is the leading manufacturer of Solar charge controllers world wide.&nbsp; Those other guys with the glossy marketing brochures are not.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Be very careful about buying the new, high tech and expensive battery types because they have different charging requirements, which vary by manufacturer.&nbsp; Unless your charging equipment is adjustable, you could damage those expensive new batteries by over or under charging them.&nbsp; I did&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">not</span>&nbsp;say you shouldn’t buy them.&nbsp; I just said you need to be careful.&nbsp; Get the battery manufacturer’s charging specifications and pay strict attention to them.&nbsp; The charger manufacturers are nearly all not setting their equipment up for the voltage that the battery manufacturers specify.&nbsp; The difference between 14.4 &amp; 14.8 volts is not 3%.&nbsp; That difference is nearly 20% of the charging range (12.2 to 14.8 volts).&nbsp; That 20% makes a huge difference in how full the battery gets before the charger shuts off.&nbsp; You can eventually get the batteries full by charging at 14.4 volts, but it takes hours, not minutes.&nbsp; We have related industries that are not talking to each other and the outcome is that the majority of RV’s are running around with weak batteries.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Now, I will tell you why I am not a fan of the new technology batteries like gel cell &amp; AGM:&nbsp; Your charge system has to be set at a lower voltage for them, so more of the power your solar panels could produce is not available for use.&nbsp; (Lower volts equals fewer watts.)&nbsp; Take a look at this web site:&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="http://www.sterling-power.com/support-faq-2.htm" rel="nofollow" style="border: 0px; color: #414141; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;">http://www.sterling-power.com/support-faq-2.htm</a></strong>.&nbsp; Like me, this guy takes heat from people who don’t like his common sense approach when getting to the truth, but he knows what he is talking about. With sealed batteries you end up with less power in the same amount of space and weight.&nbsp; Big ones are available, but they are very expensive.&nbsp; All this so you don’t have to add water and can’t check the electrolyte to monitor their condition.&nbsp; Suit yourself, but this really doesn’t sound like a good bargain to me.&nbsp; Unless I owned a rig that had extreme access issues, I would not even consider anything except Trojan flooded deep cycle 6V golf cart batteries. L16’s need higher voltage charging and frequent equalizing for proper maintenance. This is a potential problem for 12V RV systems so I recommend against it.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Regarding battery cables:&nbsp; Make your&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">interconnecting</strong>&nbsp;cables up the same length &amp; gauge.&nbsp;&nbsp; (Heavy enough for the inverter load.)&nbsp; This does not say that the main cables to the loads have to be the same.&nbsp; You want to have the same total length of wire between each battery and the main connections to hot &amp; ground.&nbsp; You have to connect to diagonally opposite corners of sets of batteries to accomplish this.&nbsp; If you have a chain of six batteries, two will be closer to hot and two will be closer to ground, but the total wire distance will be the same for each of them, so they will get an equal charge and will also be drawn down together.&nbsp; This is critical because we are really only trickle charging with solar power and we have to make sure the batteries all get the same charge.&nbsp; Any tiny difference will get worse over time and can eventually ruin your expensive batteries.&nbsp; Again, this is a place where a lot of the professionals do not agree with me, but what do they care if some of your batteries don’t last as long as others and then ruin your whole set early?&nbsp; Don’t listen to the guy that says you have to buy all that extra cable to make every cable the same length and connect to common hots and grounds so all the batteries are connected exactly the same.&nbsp; It is a waste of money and adds more connections that all have a potential for failure.&nbsp; Look at Backwoodssolar.com for wiring diagrams.&nbsp; They are a bit hard to find, but they are in there if you are persistent.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A word on cable connections:&nbsp; Many of the so called “professionals” are doing a very poor job of crimping, using hammers and dies.&nbsp; You test crimps by trying to pull them apart, so do just that in front of the guy you bought them from.&nbsp; I once had three of twelve crimps fail that some “professional” had done and he wanted to know what I had done to them.&nbsp; I now carry my own big crimper, and I do all double crimps.&nbsp; (This is a UL requirement in the real electrical world.)&nbsp; If a hot wire comes loose while you are going down the road and falls against the frame, it will turn into a welder.&nbsp; You don’t want to become a burning hulk at the side of the road.&nbsp; Make sure those connections are good and solid. &nbsp;Last, a side note about not owning a big charger:&nbsp; My batteries stay clean and hardly gas at all; you could eat off of them.&nbsp; Big chargers are wonderful in some ways and terrible in others.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">CHARGING METHODS</strong><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">:</strong></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">CONVERTERS:</strong>&nbsp;Here is the other place that the RV industry has really let us down. Nearly all basic RV’s, whether they are trailers, fifth wheels or motor homes are equipped with something called a converter or “charger”.&nbsp; This mislabeled item should be called a battery maintainer, because it is designed to be plugged into shore power in an RV park 24 hours a day, which is really what the RV industry wants us to do.&nbsp; Converters are set to maintain the batteries at the “float” voltage, about 13.5 volts, and supply a trickle charge (2-3 amps, or 25-35 watts) to keep the batteries full, while not over charging them and boiling them dry.&nbsp; Because of the length and size of the wiring in most rigs, the converter typically supplies less than 13 volts to the battery. &nbsp;&nbsp;Some newer three stage converters will put out over 14 volts, but that is still too low.&nbsp; You cannot successfully charge batteries with a converter, because you never get the batteries up to the required 14.4 volts and&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">hold them there</span>&nbsp;long enough.&nbsp; Don’t pay any attention to the amp rating of the converter and don’t believe that it is a good charger just because it is labeled three stage.&nbsp; DO NOT WASTE YOUR MONEY UPGRADING TO A THREE STAGE CONVERTER, THINKING IT WILL BE ANY BETTER.&nbsp; It will put the rated amps out for a very short time after you have run the batteries down or have just plugged in and it will drop to float the second it reaches whatever set point they used, then it will taper the amps off to a trickle at about 13 volts, long&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">before</span>&nbsp;the batteries are full.&nbsp; Plus, if you have any solar power, the voltage it puts out will be sensed by the converter and cause it to go into trickle charge mode even sooner.&nbsp; I installed a new 60 amp Intellipower converter in a friend’s rig &amp; when we started the generator I measured only 4 amps output at 13.6 volts right away.&nbsp; It dropped from bulk charge to float in seconds, and those batteries were not full.&nbsp; Does that sound like a battery charger to you?&nbsp; Their own spec sheet says that it drops to float when the batteries are at 90% and in my experience this is very optimistic.&nbsp; My solar system actually puts more amps (3.5 amps) into my batteries on a cloudy day than your average converter does, and I can’t keep my batteries charged when it is cloudy, even with that trickle charge working all day.&nbsp; Therefore, you can’t expect your converter to charge them, either.&nbsp; You are actually lucky to ever get your batteries over 80% full with a converter that is plugged in for several days unless the rig is stored and no electricity is being used.&nbsp; The single battery supplied on most small rigs holds about 90 amp hours.&nbsp; That is about 30 hours of charging from the converter, but at the same time you are still running loads and reducing the power actually going to the batteries, so we are talking days, not hours.&nbsp; The truth is that it takes even longer because batteries are not 100% efficient, especially when they get closer to full.&nbsp; In 2007 I repaired the solar system on a friend’s motor home that had been plugged in for a full month at a park and then driven to our camp for a half hour, with the engine alternator charging the batteries.&nbsp; He arrived with his house batteries at 12.5 volts and the hydrometer showing them about 75% charged.&nbsp; This is typical of rigs that are kept in RV parks &amp; occasionally taken out to boondock.&nbsp; They never have fully charged batteries.&nbsp; Converters need to be plugged in 24 hours a day to work, not run for an hour or two with a generator.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">TOWING;</strong>&nbsp;or connecting a trailer to the tow vehicle and idling the engine is very inefficient because the wires used are too small and too long.&nbsp; The voltage drop is excessive and you are lucky to get more than a few amps, once the tow vehicle’s battery is full and the voltage regulator tapers the charge rate to the vehicle’s battery.&nbsp; Turning the tow vehicle around and using big jumper cables connected directly from its battery to the trailer’s battery will give you much more power.&nbsp; That will get you maybe 10 amps (more if you have a&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">big</span>&nbsp;alternator) and up to 14.4 volts, which would take nine or ten hours to charge up that single battery.&nbsp; It will work, but it still takes a long time.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">PORTABLE GENERATORS:</strong>&nbsp;Those with a DC battery charging output for direct connection to batteries work much better than plugging the rig in to the generator and using the converter in the rig, or using a small automotive type charger like I see many folks doing.&nbsp; This battery charging output will give you about 8 amps at up to 14.6 volts, which does work, but will take over 11 hours to charge up that single battery.&nbsp; A converter is unable to fully charge a depleted battery even when plugged in for days on end, and it only uses a tiny percentage of a generator’s output, so running it on a generator is a waste of fuel.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Plus, the batteries will end up weakened due to not getting charged and will then not hold a full charge.&nbsp; This is also true in motor homes with built-in generators and converters.&nbsp; What you need is a battery “charger”.&nbsp; This can be a simple automotive type, but it needs to be a big one, at least 25 amps, if you want it to work by running it for a limited period of time each day on your generator.&nbsp; A 25 amp charger that is run for two or three hours a day will maintain a battery in the average small RV.&nbsp; Remember that the amps taper off as the batteries start to get full, so it doesn’t really put 25 amps per hour into them. A 25 amp charger will draw about 600 watts at 120 volts AC, so you can run it on a tiny 1000 watt generator, but you have to be careful and not run much else at the same time.&nbsp; You can run a 50 amp charger (about 1200 watts) on a 2000 watt generator, but again, little else at the same time.&nbsp; These numbers may not seem to add up, but you have a lot of inefficiency when you are converting the AC output of a generator to DC in the charger.&nbsp; One of the new “smart” chargers with a battery recondition (equalize) button on them are what you need. (Added Feb. 2011: It seems that the chargers you can buy at the big retail stores have all been outsourced to China and it is getting tough to find one that will work. It was reported back to me that both Diehard and Shumaker now shut off at only 13.8V. The Xantrex portable one shuts off at 14.4V and has no settings for different batteries. These used to work and now they don’t. I don’t have a recommendation except that Backwoods Solar sells an Iota constant voltage charger set up at 14.8V intended for use only for backup charging. &nbsp; (So, you don’t have to have solar power to charge your batteries, but it does do a better job.)</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">INVERTER/CHARGERS:</strong>&nbsp;High end motor homes are now being supplied with these rather expensive, but useful gizmos.&nbsp; The big ones can quickly charge batteries when powered from a generator. The modern ones are programmable for battery type and amp hours of storage and this is where I have usually found problems.&nbsp; It seems that many of the RV manufacturers and repair shops don’t know how to set them and if they are not set correctly, they won’t work properly.&nbsp; The factory default voltage &amp; amperage settings on most of them are just as low as a converter and some will automatically revert to that setting if you disconnect your batteries to clean the terminals.&nbsp; It is very important to learn how to program your inverter/charger correctly for the batteries in your rig, so you are getting your money’s worth out of it.&nbsp; Remember, even these have to be run for at least an hour after you get the batteries up to the proper voltage and since none of them are set to 14.8 volts as Trojan recommends, an hour isn’t nearly long enough.&nbsp; If you set them for a bit more amp hours than your batteries actually hold you can fool them into charging for a bit longer. Some have adjustments for bulk charge time and need to be set for at least three hours in order to really work.&nbsp; I recommend that you look at Magnum if you want to buy a new one.&nbsp; They figured out that 14.6V works better than the 14.4V that everybody else uses and the older ones typically are set at only 14.2V.&nbsp; I have to repeat myself here; even a Magnum charger will not bulk charge if it sees over 13V from the batteries when it is powered up by a generator and will come on in float mode.&nbsp; Therefore, trying to charge while solar panels are providing voltage to the batteries will not work.&nbsp; You must charge when the sun is low, in the morning.&nbsp; Otherwise, you are just wasting fuel &amp; expensive equipment.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">SOLAR POWER:</strong>&nbsp;Now, if you do decide to spend the money for a solar system, you have found the person that can tell you how to make it work.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">I am aiming this information at those of you like me, who have a limited budget.</strong>&nbsp;However, even those of you with lots of money need to become educated if you don’t want to be taken advantage of by the RV solar salesmen, so keep reading.&nbsp; My wife and I really have been full time boondocking for over eight years (as of 2010) and we have never owned a generator.&nbsp; Don’t listen to the folks that tell you the first thing you need in order to go boondocking is a generator.&nbsp; Campers who don’t need to run the toaster &amp; microwave are better off buying one solar panel and a small inverter instead of a generator. &nbsp;We run our TV, computer, battery chargers for phone, camera, tools, etc., plus coffee maker, microwave, mattress heating pad, toaster, waffle iron, hair dryer, vacuum, power tools such as skill saw, table and miter saws, router, sander, drills, heat shrink gun, soldering iron, etc. You name it.&nbsp; We live a normal life, except that our house is very small.&nbsp; My wife watches TV while she quilts with a sewing machine, using an electric iron to press the seams and I do remodeling &amp; repairs, including building a big deck in 2006, using power tools connected to our rig, at a remote cabin with no electric service (where it rained for three days during construction).&nbsp; We have only 345 watts of panels (that is less than three new 130 watt panels), which we tip up to 50 degrees in the winter and four golf cart batteries giving us 450 amp hours of storage, so we can get through a few cloudy days.&nbsp; One person that I talked to about this (who owns a big rig with a huge TV) said “You must never go anywhere that it rains.”&nbsp; A solid week of cloudy days like you get in the northwest would put a crimp in our style, but we have no problem living in Arizona in the winter, Utah spring &amp; fall and summers in Wyoming &amp; Montana, where it does rain.&nbsp; Show me an RV with the roof covered with solar panels and I’ll show you a solar system with more panels than they need but does not work because it was added to and added to with no regard for voltage drop.&nbsp; Adding solar panels to an under wired system is like putting a big motor in a little car with a tiny drive train &amp; skinny tires.&nbsp; You can’t use the power.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Be very careful about who you ask for advice. (Don’t ask the guy with solar panels and a generator running behind his rig on a sunny day.)&nbsp; You also need to watch out for those who brag about being charged up by 10:00 or 11:00 AM.&nbsp; They either have more panels than needed or their systems are shutting off early because they are set up wrong.&nbsp; When you see those guys with solar, wind generator AND the gasoline one, you really need to start to wonder.&nbsp; Ask any “expert” if he has ever actually done what we are doing and lived without being plugged in or running a generator for more than a few days at a time.&nbsp; It seems to me that anyone seriously in the business of selling solar equipment should be living with it.&nbsp; Both his home and business should be off the grid.&nbsp; If he is an RV’er, why is his rig parked behind his business location &amp; plugged into the grid?&nbsp; Electricity from the grid does cost money, you know.&nbsp; Anyone who starts out by telling you what you cannot run instead of what you can run is the wrong person to listen to because really, with enough power, you can run anything.&nbsp; However, it is not practical to run anything like a heater or an air conditioner; those things take kilowatts, not watts.&nbsp; The solar industry is letting us down by producing solar charge controllers that have their charge voltage set too low (14.2-14.4 volts) and the installers are not doing their job by verifying that the systems they install are wired and adjusted correctly.&nbsp; (Most of them are clueless.)&nbsp; I have had several arguments with these so called “experts” over these issues.&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Buyer beware!</strong>&nbsp;Close to 90% of the solar systems with wet cell batteries that I have checked do not supply the 14.4 volts minimum needed at the battery terminals, either because they are set too low (many are not adjustable) or there is voltage drop in the wiring between the charge controller and the batteries.&nbsp; You have to realize that the voltage shown on your charge controller is measured at its output terminals, not at the batteries.&nbsp; There is voltage drop in every DC installation, even if the wire is very short, so all controllers need to be adjusted upward in order to actually get the batteries full.&nbsp; The same thing applies to the amps (they drop as the batteries fill and before the batteries are charged if the voltage is too low).&nbsp; I have seen systems with nearly two volts of drop in their wiring due to resistance loss, adding up to about a 25% loss.&nbsp; 25% of a four panel system is one entire panel!&nbsp; You must locate the charge controller as close to the batteries as you can or use BIG wire, so you actually get the volts to the battery terminals.&nbsp; (#10 is not big.)&nbsp; Above the refrigerator is absolutely the worst place for the charge controller, due to both wire length and heat (the enemy of electronics), which should tell you something about many of the solar installers, since this is still their favorite location.&nbsp; Worse yet, some of the older cheap controllers were set at 13.6 volts like the converters, are not adjustable and their instructions say you can connect them at the refrigerator supply wires, choking the power off and the money spent on expensive solar panels is just thrown away. The attitude in much of the solar industry seems to be that their factory settings are “close enough”, which is absolutely not true.&nbsp; Manufacturers of charge controllers also seem to worry way too much about over charging, which is very difficult to do with the limited amps produced by most RV solar systems.&nbsp; So, most of the systems people have had installed in their rigs by the so called “professionals” are not really getting their batteries full and they end up running their generators when they shouldn’t have to.&nbsp; Many people with only one or two small panels would actually improve their system’s performance and not hurt their batteries if they removed their cheap, nonadjustable charge controller and connected the panels directly to the batteries.&nbsp; (2 or 3 amps will not hurt a 225 amp hour battery, no matter how many volts you push it with.)&nbsp; It seems to me that if you are going to spend all of that money on solar panels, you should do everything you can to get that expensive power into your batteries.&nbsp; This means that money spent on big wire and a better charge controller is a wise investment.&nbsp; The difference in price between a cheap controller and one that will work is very small, as is the difference between small and big wire.&nbsp; Don’t waste a thousand dollars on solar panels and then throw half of it away by not installing and adjusting it correctly.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Even with my background in electrical engineering and electrical equipment sales, I was not knowledgeable about DC wiring and I’ve made all the mistakes.&nbsp; My attitude all along has been that money would be more wisely spent on solar panels than a generator and I would just not accept what I kept being told by salesmen that were on the outside of the RV boondocking&nbsp; world, looking in.&nbsp; I installed our first solar panel with the #10 wire furnished in a kit and installed the controller above the refrigerator as directed in the instructions.&nbsp; It did not work.&nbsp; I would take the amps, hours and the rest of the information that was available, calculate, figure &amp; obsess and it never seemed to add up.&nbsp; I added a second panel after three months of traveling, and then added tipping hardware.&nbsp; Our batteries would still go deader &amp; deader every day as we ran nothing more than our lights &amp; a tiny 9” TV.&nbsp; Then I listened to the wrong advice &amp; added two more batteries to a system that wasn’t charging the two that I had.&nbsp; I finally figured out that voltage drop was the biggest problem, but having no experience with DC power, it was a real challenge to figure out how to fix it. &nbsp;We are now in our second rig, fifth charge controller and on our eighth year of full time boondocking and are pretty much acting like electricity falls from the sky in unlimited amounts.&nbsp; (Wait a minute…. Maybe it does!)&nbsp; So, when I tell you it is possible to run on solar equipment, you can believe me.&nbsp; We do it.&nbsp; One more time:&nbsp; We have never owned a generator.&nbsp; Believe it or not, most of the folks in the solar power industry, including the manufacturers and the dealers do not know how to make solar power really work.&nbsp; I’m not saying that&nbsp;<em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">none</em>&nbsp;of them know, but it is my experience that the honest ones who really know what they are doing are in a very small minority and most of them are doing houses, not RV’s.&nbsp; Even those folks will tell you that you need a generator and will not believe me when I describe how well our system works.&nbsp; You see, most of them are just selling the stuff and not relying on it like I do.&nbsp; There is a great big difference.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">One bad example of this was the technical guru of a company that manufactures solar charge controllers and installs RV systems, who I had the occasion to talk to because I was repairing an under wired inverter installation they had done.&nbsp; I was thinking about replacing my controller with their new MPPT unit and I was trying to decide if it was the right one for me.&nbsp; He could not explain to me why their new controller was set a half of a volt lower than the Trojan factory recommends and did not have the ability to equalize, while claiming that they talked to Trojan all the time.&nbsp; He told me I would boil my batteries dry by following Trojan’s 14.8 volt recommendation and then said to use my generator &amp; inverter/charger to equalize (after I had already told him that I owned neither).&nbsp; He bragged that they tested their equipment on the company owner’s own motor home with his roof “covered” with solar panels.&nbsp; He said “of course he has a generator,&nbsp;<em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">everybody</em>&nbsp;needs a generator.” &nbsp;&nbsp;This was a very illuminating conversation for me.&nbsp; Here was an “expert” on solar who evidently didn’t trust it enough to rely on it and appeared to be ignoring what the biggest manufacturer of deep cycle batteries in the country has to say.&nbsp; Looking back on this conversation a year or so later, with more experience under my belt, and after installing one of their MPPT controllers in a friend’s rig with AGM batteries (where it worked fine), it occurred to me that the company in question had decided that we should all be able to afford sealed batteries and were designing their controllers specifically for them.&nbsp; However, their advertising, their installation instructions and the numerous dealers selling for them have not been telling us this.&nbsp; Their controllers work fine if not overloaded with more panels than they can handle and if they are used as intended on AGM batteries, which can be done if you go to their shop to get it installed, but there are lots of them hooked up to wet cell batteries and that are not working very well at all by dealers who have no clue what they are doing.&nbsp; I have replaced several that were badly misapplied by connecting to too many panels and then hooking up to flooded batteries with small wires by “expert” dealers and RV manufacturers.&nbsp; I saw one 30 amp controller that had over 45 amps of panels connected to it by a solar dealer, and you are supposed to leave headroom above that for the possible boost!&nbsp;&nbsp; (Yes, it had failed.)&nbsp; 400 watts overloads their 22 amp controller and many systems have been installed this way by one of the top fifth wheel manufacturers.&nbsp; One guy I met had to buy new Trojans after only three years because of those guys and they would not listen when he complained.&nbsp; These controllers will limit the amps down to the level they are rated at, so connecting more panels than they will handle is a waste of money, in addition to being a way of selling replacement controllers. &nbsp;By the way, the owner of this solar company contacted me and complained after one of you out there wouldn’t listen and handed him a copy.&nbsp; He told me that “nobody in my company ever told you that you had to have a generator.”&nbsp; Sorry, but the above statements are direct quotes, I have phone logs, and have not made any of this up.&nbsp;&nbsp; While they may be doing good installations now, they used to put three 120 watt panels on #10 wire and those systems did not work.&nbsp; I also can’t help but wonder just how many inverters have been installed by how many different companies with cables smaller than Xantrex requires.&nbsp; I’ve seen a lot of motor home installations done by RV manufacturers that have too small cables run too far from the batteries.&nbsp; I tried to buy #2/0 cable last winter at an RV place in Quartzsite and the guy tried to sell me #2, saying that was what they used for all inverter installations.&nbsp; This is a more common problem than you would believe.&nbsp; The only reason we are not seeing more problems is that most folks do not load their inverters nearly to their capacity like I do, so the voltage drop issue is not apparent.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Following are some “Common Sense Guidelines” for designing a solar power system that really works.&nbsp; One of my friends says common sense ain’t all that common.&nbsp; Ain’t that the truth?&nbsp; I’m not going to get technical, because you don’t need to. &nbsp;This is not an installation manual because there are plenty of those already available.&nbsp; It is intended to be an education guide.&nbsp; If you really want to obsess about amp hours, watts, types of panel crystals or charger regiments you can go buy one of several books, or go to a seminar that will confuse and probably misinform you.&nbsp; Even worse, go on line &amp; solicit the help of strangers who sit at their computers, in rigs that are parked in RV parks, but claim to be experts on every subject under the sun.&nbsp; Even before I figured out how to fix my system I had walked out of two seminars at Escapades because the people running them were so obviously lacking in knowledge.&nbsp; On the other hand, if you just want a system that works and doesn’t cost too much, read on.&nbsp; As you read, keep this in mind:&nbsp;&nbsp;<strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">I’m not trying to sell you anything.</strong>&nbsp;I just want to help you get your money’s worth and prevent somebody else from taking advantage.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">HOW MUCH POWER??&nbsp;</strong>Everybody is different.&nbsp; How’s that for a generality?&nbsp; Examples:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">We have RV friends that get by just fine with one 125 watt solar panel and two batteries on a 34 foot class A motor home.&nbsp; They don’t watch a lot of TV, but they do occasionally use a laptop computer.&nbsp; They were going to buy a second panel, until I showed them how to reset their controller to get 14.8 volts to the batteries and now they have plenty of power.&nbsp; The dealer told them they needed three panels, but did agree to put only one up initially and use #8 wire, but then he left the controller at the factory default voltage setting (14.4V on the controller/ 14.2V at the batteries).</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">We have other friends with a four slide-out fifth wheel, the built-in vacuum system and 27 inch TV that get by nicely on only two 125 watt solar panels and four batteries.&nbsp; The dealers told them they needed either three or four panels.&nbsp; I told them to try two panels and wire it for three, and helped them install &amp; adjust it correctly.&nbsp; They used battery power with their new inverter to run the built-in vacuum system to clean up the mess we made &amp; watched movies that night to see how things worked.&nbsp; Their generator got loaded into the back of the truck the next day and wasn’t used again until they got snowed on the following fall up in the great white north.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">We have other friends that you will recognize if you ever see them, because of the eight big panels (800 watts) in a motorized tilting array on the roof of their 40ft bus conversion, six L16 batteries, all of the usual appliances, plus a 22 cubic foot over/under residential 120 volt refrigerator.&nbsp; Their system seemed to work except for having to run the generator any time it got cloudy for a few hours and then I convinced them to let me do some rewiring, move their controller closer to the batteries and replace it with a big three stage unit.&nbsp; The generator doesn’t run now unless it rains for more than three days in a row.&nbsp; They could be getting by with only 500 or 600 watts, but with their over designed system they can now ignore the rain.&nbsp; By the way, according to something I read in a solar dealer’s catalog, they should need 500 watts just to run the refrigerator.&nbsp; This is how I know that the information in that catalog is not to be trusted.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Then there are the folks who have five big solar panels tipped up on the roof, one of the big expensive boost controllers and six batteries on their 40 foot motor home that can’t get along without running the generator nearly every day.&nbsp; They also have a 27 inch TV and a computer and a large phantom load, but no electric frig and more than 600 watts of panels (don’t forget the boosting controller).&nbsp; Their system was installed by a “professional”, using too small of wire and even though the meters show that it charges, they are losing at least 20% of the power their panels put out (a whole panel’s worth) in wiring losses, even after spending hundreds of dollars on the boost controller that would supposedly solve their inadequate wiring problem by running 24 volts down from the roof.&nbsp; It does not work, because it does not provide what they need and they won’t listen to me.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Then there are the folks we ran into only once, who had two panels, four batteries and a noisy generator running on a sunny day.&nbsp; I showed them with my meter how their system was wired inadequately and was not getting their batteries above 75% or so, but they weren’t going to be convinced.&nbsp; “The controller is blinking full and 14.4 volts” (It was 25 ft away from the batteries, which were getting only 13.5 volts) and “by God, the guy we bought it from knew what he was doing, we spent $5000 on it and you don’t know what you’re talking about”.&nbsp; So, why is the generator running??&nbsp; “We are using it to watch TV, so we don’t run the batteries down.”&nbsp;&nbsp; They couldn’t watch TV all evening on their four “full” batteries without having them go dead!&nbsp; Those four batteries should power their little TV for two full 24 hour days and their panels could produce 3 or 4 times as much power as the TV used, if it was only getting to the batteries.&nbsp; Sometimes you just have to walk away, go home &amp; start writing the RV Battery Charging Puzzle, which is exactly what I did.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">See, everybody is different.&nbsp; You cannot tell by looking at somebody’s rig if their solar equipment actually works and most folks don’t really know so be very careful about asking strangers for advice.&nbsp; There are thousands of rigs out there with systems that do not really work, owned by people that don’t know any better and think their systems work, while at the same time being paranoid about turning anything on, trying LED lights &amp; burning candles.&nbsp; If you can’t use your lights and appliances whenever you want to day or night, your system does not work.&nbsp; Remember that your appliances are part of your electrical system.&nbsp; You can spend money on more efficient appliances like a smaller TV, instead of buying more solar panels and end up with the same net result.&nbsp; This is not an acceptable compromise for many folks, but by doing just this we are able to leave the TV on all day and still be able to run things like the toaster and the electric iron that those other folks cannot.&nbsp; Many people have gone to extreme measures with their lights to save tiny bits of power, something that we have not done.&nbsp; We don’t like fluorescent lights and LED’s are just not ready yet (they are improving).&nbsp; I even replaced the fluorescent over the kitchen counter with 12V halogen under cabinet lights that use twice as much power. &nbsp;&nbsp;We use incandescent lights for reading that take more watts than our TV does.&nbsp; We just turn the lights off when we don’t need them.&nbsp; A propane heater that keeps you from running the furnace motor is also a lot less money than a solar panel, so I consider it to be part of your generating system.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">That said, here is this stranger’s advice:&nbsp; If you want to just be able to run your lights, water pump, charge the cell phone and run the occasional small kitchen appliance, acting more like a camper than a full timer, you only need one panel and one or two batteries.&nbsp; If you want to run the TV a bit, computer, the microwave to warm up soup or make popcorn and some kitchen appliances you’ll need two panels and four batteries.&nbsp; Of course you need more panels if you go where the sun doesn’t shine or if want to run more, such as unusual loads like a freezer in the basement or a CPAP machine to keep you breathing all night.&nbsp; It can be difficult to figure out how much power any device needs because the labels generally show higher watts than actual and then you can’t guess the duty cycle. There are meters available (“Kill A Watt”) that can do this for you, but if you buy that smart meter like I told you earlier even before you buy any solar panels, you will have what you need.&nbsp; If you aren’t going to be able to climb up on the roof and tip the panels during the winter, add 40% more panels and keep in mind that the newer and fancier motor homes typically have as much as two amps of phantom loads that you’ll never be able to shut off.&nbsp; You need to find somebody like me with a DC clamp on ammeter and test your rig for phantom loads.&nbsp; (Two amps over twenty four hours is 48 amp hours, and that is more than a whole solar panel in the short winter days.)&nbsp; When I say panel, I mean a modern one that puts out 100 to 130 watts.&nbsp; I don’t care what brand or type, just check the warranty, calculate the dollars per watt and do some comparison shopping.&nbsp; You will find that the bigger panels are a better buy. Unless you stumble into a bargain on used panels it is short sighted to buy smaller panels.&nbsp; Don’t buy more batteries than you need to get through a couple of days unless you need to run big loads like a microwave oven.&nbsp; It is not good practice to draw the 120 or more amps that can take out of only two batteries.&nbsp; You do need more batteries for big loads but realize that every battery you add has a built-in loss that must be overcome by your charger, so more is not necessarily better.&nbsp; Adding batteries to a system that doesn’t have enough charging power is like putting big truck tires on a compact car.&nbsp; You end up with something that burns more fuel, but can’t carry more cargo.&nbsp; Good luck if you try to calculate your amp hour needs based on what you find in a book or at one of those seminars.&nbsp; The people that gave you the info are trying to sell more panels.&nbsp; You won’t really know what you need until after you have lived with whatever you install for a while, but you can get by with fewer panels than you have been told elsewhere, if you install them correctly.&nbsp; Regardless of how much power you use, you need nearly 3% of your total battery storage amp hour capacity in charging amps in order to successfully charge those batteries.&nbsp; With less, you can’t equalize.&nbsp; For instance, six batteries with 675 amp hours capacity require 20 amps charging (675 x .03 =20.25), which is three panels.&nbsp; Two panels do not produce enough power to successfully charge six batteries.&nbsp; The number of panels gets you the power needed per day plus some excess to make up for what you miss during cloudy periods, while the battery capacity is what gets you through the night, or in our case, through a few cloudy days.&nbsp; Remember however, that panels do produce some power even on rainy days, so the batteries do not have to be sized to power several 24 hour days of use like some dealers will tell you.&nbsp; We have more panels than we need, so we can charge our batteries while still living, and so we don’t need to carry a generator.&nbsp; Having a generator lets you get by with a smaller solar system.&nbsp; Wiring your system for more panels than you buy will keep you from having to do things twice and will make your system more efficient if you end up not needing to add panels.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">THE CHARGE CONTROLLER:&nbsp; FRIEND OR FOE?&nbsp;</strong>Charge controllers are installed to limit the power sent to the batteries and keep them from being damaged by overcharging.&nbsp; Therefore, one that is set too low becomes the enemy of anyone who wants to actually charge their batteries until full.&nbsp; The typical solar charge controller, which is a flush mounted two stage or on /off device and rated 20 or 25 amps, is designed to maintenance charge one or maybe two batteries.&nbsp; It tapers the charge amps off by regulating the voltage, typically as soon as it reaches whatever its voltage set point is, which is usually around 14.4V, instead of pushing amps in for a period of time as required by the batteries.&nbsp; Go back &amp; reread what I said under batteries about the difference between 14.4 &amp; 14.8V.&nbsp; That 20% difference is like getting only 80% power output from your expensive solar panels, so a controller that shuts off early is costing you money.&nbsp; The manufacturers of these things have no idea of what we are trying to do with them out here in the real world.&nbsp; They designed them to trickle charge batteries and keep them from going dead, not to actually power a small house.&nbsp; So, our batteries get “nearly” full, not really full.&nbsp; That “nearly” full battery will still show 12.7 volts after the sun goes down, but it is not really full and also not really healthy and will get weaker over time.&nbsp; Get a three stage charge controller that will handle the power from more panels than you buy and that has an equalize button on it.&nbsp; Equalizing is the source of much disagreement in the RV world, and I know you don’t really need to do it if your charger is working correctly.&nbsp; Trojan Batteries says to equalize only when you need to, based on a hydrometer test and I did not have to once I set my controller to 14.8 volts, until those batteries were eight years old. &nbsp;Temperature compensation is very important when solar charging. &nbsp;This will lower the voltage setting when over 80 degrees to keep from over charging and raise it in the winter because batteries need more volts in cold temperatures.&nbsp; I see as high as 15.2V on my meter on cold days and that is what it takes for correct charging.&nbsp; Setting it low all the time is what most installers do, and that keeps your batteries from getting full and is very bad for them.&nbsp; Three stage chargers are easier on your batteries, charge them faster, fuller and help you use less water.&nbsp; Some of the older controllers sold in the RV world actually taper the charging amps before the batteries are full.&nbsp; The charge control manufacturers are all very conservative in their settings, so don’t worry about hurting the batteries by turning the voltage up. &nbsp;And last, don’t load any controller to over 80% of its rating (lower is better), no matter what the manufacturer says.&nbsp; You want it to last for years, not just get through the warranty period.&nbsp;&nbsp; Since 2008 I have been using a Morningstar Tristar 45 with temperature compensation but no digital meter or remote because I use a Trimetric 2025 to monitor the batteries.&nbsp; The Morningstar uses a self adjusting charge algorithm to take care of the batteries.&nbsp; It charges for a minimum of two hours after it reaches the voltage set point and monitors the amps going out.&nbsp; It will not drop to float until it sees the amps dropping and thus knows that the batteries are full.&nbsp; Mine almost never floats because we are always using our power.&nbsp; &nbsp;These big non-boosting controllers were designed to power home systems and they really do work.&nbsp; Before this one I used a Xantrex C series unit, which worked decently, but failed after only 3 1/2 years.&nbsp; Xantrex has moved their production to China and has problems ever since, so I went looking for something better. &nbsp;My older flush mounted RV controller was only four years old, rated 30 amps and it was starting to act funny (failing).&nbsp; But worse than that, it was designed by the manufacturer to start tapering the amps long before it reached the set point voltage (“a gentle finishing charge”), so it was shutting the power from my panels off before the batteries were full.&nbsp; People who don’t believe me on this point never saw what the Link meter showed when the voltage reached .2V below set point.&nbsp; (The amps dropped to half and I was scratching my head for days trying to figure out why.)&nbsp; Why the idiots that designed that controller think we need to taper what is already a trickle charge is beyond me.&nbsp; I want all of the power my panels put out to go into the batteries.&nbsp; I didn’t figure out that this was happening until I replaced that controller and saw the big difference in the available power.&nbsp; Don’t buy&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">any</span>of the little flush mounted two stage controllers, including the “boost” models if you are serious about using solar power.&nbsp; They all shut the power off before the batteries get full unless you ignore the instructions, put them in the basement at the batteries and turn them up.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">MPPT BOOST CONTROLLERS</strong>&nbsp;(maximum power point tracking);&nbsp; Yes, they do work, assuming that you run your batteries down low enough, which you will hardly ever do if your system is set up right.&nbsp; My system runs in the top 15% of its range 95% of the time.&nbsp; The magic boost kicks in when the batteries are low and will accept more amps at a lower voltage.&nbsp; There is little or no boost at higher voltages and when the panels are hot.&nbsp; Also, the manufacturers will tell you that you can overload their controllers and they will limit the power and protect themselves.&nbsp; If you look at the meter on one of these, it will show boost even when it is at set point volts where the manufacturer’s specs say there is no boost, so just what is it doing; boosting or shutting the power off?&nbsp; It can’t be doing both at the same time! &nbsp;&nbsp;I have proven that these controllers play games with the input amps shown.&nbsp; If you take one out and replace it with a good non MPPT controller when the batteries are near full, you will see that the input amps change, while the output stays nearly the same.&nbsp; I have done this more than once.&nbsp; I even got one of the RV Solar dealers to do this and boy did he get upset, red in the face &amp; started yelling at me, something I am sure he would deny now that he is on the boost band wagon. &nbsp;I tested the input &amp; output of one of the best ones available with my Amprobe and when I multiplied the numbers to get watts, I found that the controller was losing about 10% in its electronics.&nbsp; It was definitely boosting the amps while lowering the volts, but that unit was advertised to be more than 98% efficient, not 90% as I measured.&nbsp; If you carefully read the reports on these controllers, you will realize that the magazines never do comparison testing side by side with other brands and independent metering.&nbsp; They simply report what the meter on the charge controller shows as if it is gospel.&nbsp; The whole story is suspect and when you look around on the discussion forums; people have backed off from those huge claims and are now being more realistic.&nbsp; Of course there is another new manufacturer who is making up to 40% boost claims, but where he found this energy that nobody knows about is not explained.&nbsp; There are those who don’t believe in MPPT at all, but they are in a small minority.&nbsp; My background was in the lighting business, where certified independent test reports were the norm, so that is what I expect to see.&nbsp; There doesn’t seem to be any such thing in the solar business.&nbsp;&nbsp; I’m just not convinced that these controllers are worth two or three times as much money.&nbsp; I know, the small two stage units don’t cost that much, but they don’t work.&nbsp; I have replaced several of them with non-boosting three stage units and the systems had more power afterward, not less.&nbsp; The “experts” don’t want to believe this, but the people that I have done this for would tell you the truth. &nbsp;Buy a three stage boost unit if you can afford it, just don’t expect any ”25% or more” extra power and do not overload it so that it shuts your power off. &nbsp;Just read the directions. &nbsp;Somewhere around 5 or 10 % average daily increase is more like it and you are going to get that much extra by running big wires.&nbsp; Last, don’t completely believe the latest “trick” about fixing voltage drop problems in a system by running 24V down from the roof in small wires and then transforming down to 12V in the controller.&nbsp; All transformers (including electronic ones) have an efficiency loss and even the MPPT circuitry is not 100% efficient.&nbsp; You gain by running 24V &amp; then lose by running it through a transformer.&nbsp; Last, the boost comes from using excess volts put out by the solar panels and turning it into amps.&nbsp; If you don’t install great big wires so that voltage is actually getting to the controller, then you are wasting the extra money spent on the MPPT controller.&nbsp; Morningstar is recommending that you design for only a 2% loss, panels to the controller and that means even&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">bigger</span>&nbsp;wires when using MPPT.&nbsp; The older recommendation (that the solar “professionals” have mostly ignored) was 3%.&nbsp; The dealers who tell you that MPPT will make up for the voltage loss in the wiring are lying to you.&nbsp; Without the voltage, MPPT cannot work. &nbsp;You can use higher voltage, lower amperage panels and get a bit more power with MPPT.&nbsp; This does work because at a higher voltage, you will have less voltage drop before the controller.&nbsp; However, 100 watt panels put out a max of 100 watts.&nbsp; When the company makes outrageous boost claims, they are talking about boosting the amps from panels that put out lower amps than other standard voltage panels, not the watts.&nbsp; They use this as a marketing tool.&nbsp; You need to do some serious comparison shopping before you decide if their system is worth the price.&nbsp; You need to compare other systems using standard voltage panels and big enough wires for watts per dollar into the batteries.&nbsp; I have seen my meter showing 340 watts for short periods of time from my ten year old 345 watts of panels on cool mornings with my PWM Morningstar Tristar that is not MPPT.&nbsp; I know that MPPT would give me a bit more, but I don’t believe it to be worth the $250 increase in price to get another 10 or 15% at most (maybe 40 watts), when at 2010 prices that would buy a whole solar panel.&nbsp; However, on my future house I will be using an MPPT Tristar and running high voltage down from the roof.&nbsp; I have calculated my voltage drop at 1% using only #6 wires on a 1200 watt system.&nbsp; A 10% boost there would be 120 watts.&nbsp; That is worth the money, especially when you look at the reduced wiring cost.&nbsp; Who does not understand MPPT?&nbsp; (Just a little barb aimed at those who will know who they are.)</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">WIRING:</strong>&nbsp;Resistance or impedance is the enemy.&nbsp; You have to overcome it and get the power to the batteries, not just to the output terminals on your charge controller.&nbsp; The system in my rig is efficient because I wired it with six gauge wire, for a total distance of only 12 ft from panels to controller.&nbsp; I ran #4 from the controller to the batteries.&nbsp; I spent about $30 for this wire and gained about $120 worth of added power when looking at what 6% of what my panels cost, which is about what I gained when going from 25ft of poorly routed #8 wire to 12ft of #6 wire.&nbsp; Big wire is even more cost efficient when you are looking at the difference in cost for a new installation.&nbsp; If your controller is located very close to the batteries like it needs to be, it will regulate the voltage to the batteries so they get what they need.&nbsp; You can run smaller wires from the panels to the controller than you run from there to the batteries, but make sure you can get nearly 16 volts minimum to the controller by looking at a voltage drop table. Big wire is cheap compared to the cost of panels, so err on the big side.&nbsp; You can either run big wire or install multiple smaller runs and split the panels up into several feeds.&nbsp; DO NOT tie the wires together at both ends. &nbsp;One wire will always have less resistance &amp; carry more of the load.&nbsp; Find a voltage drop chart and limit your loss from the roof to the batteries to 3%.&nbsp; This way you can ignore the drop in the wires on the roof. You will find that voltage drop is directly proportional to the number of amps (higher amps equals more voltage drop), which is why you should wire for the number of panels you might need and not use the minimum size for the panels you initially buy.&nbsp; Use BIG wire, at least #8 for two panels and, and #6 for three panels and that is only for runs under 20 ft.&nbsp; I have installed a lot of #4 cable and wish I had it in my own rig.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">From the controller to the batteries the wire size is critical.&nbsp; The bigger the better.&nbsp; If you cannot design for less than a 1% drop due to the length of run, it is possible with better controllers (Morningstar Tristar &amp; Prostar, plus a few others) to use remote voltage sensing and the controller will boost the voltage going out, so that the correct voltage reaches the batteries.&nbsp; Do not be tempted to use this as a way of installing smaller wires. &nbsp;Voltage drop in the run between the controller and the batteries equals wattage loss in charging.&nbsp; Fewer watts come out of the end of the wire than go in when the voltage drops.&nbsp;&nbsp; This means that using smaller wires here will cost you watts charging every day forever. &nbsp;This is a foolish place to save a few dollars.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A word on the stranded wire debate:&nbsp; Yes, you should use stranded wire because it is better for DC power.&nbsp; However, the difference between stranded building wire and finely stranded automotive or welding cable is teeny, tiny electrically, so don’t obsess about it.&nbsp; The finely stranded stuff is easier to work with, but the main thing to worry about is a UV rated shield on the roof, protection against damage when routing through the rig and the price.&nbsp; Buy what you can find at the right price and what you can deal with mechanically.&nbsp; There is nothing wrong with running big, stiff wires and then splicing short, flexible leads on the ends to make it possible to connect to terminals.&nbsp;&nbsp; The big wire is there to limit voltage drop, not to carry amps.&nbsp; You are not going to load it enough for the splices to get hot and fail.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">INVERTERS:</strong>&nbsp;I use two inverters in the rig and carry a third in the truck for portable power for the lap top.&nbsp; This may seem like overkill, but I have my reasons.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The first is a 300 watt sine wave that is located near the batteries and connected to them with 4 gauge wire and a 60 amp fuse.&nbsp; From there I ran a 12 gauge building wire to the entertainment center where it powers a custom built power center with individually switched receptacles for the various appliances such as TV, stereo &amp; sewing machine.&nbsp; This turned out to be a waste of effort.&nbsp; The TV draws only .1 amp, so we leave it on and our new energy star stereo does not show up on the meter, even though there is an LED light on the face.&nbsp; Other cords run to the mattress heating pad &amp; the air pump for the Select Comfort bed and to a receptacle for the sewing machine.&nbsp; This is all never connected to shore power.&nbsp; This may seem like a lot of trouble and expense, when I could just turn my big inverter on to run anything, but I figure that I am getting as much extra power from this as I would from $350 worth of solar panels and wiring.&nbsp; Many big inverters constantly draw over two amps, and mine is more than that.&nbsp; Power saved is much cheaper than power generated. &nbsp;However in some motor homes trying to install something like this can be a nightmare and another solar panel can be the better answer. &nbsp;I resisted buying a sine wave inverter for years and finally bought one in 2008 after having two cheap inverters fail and realized that I was risking $500 worth of TV &amp; stereo on $40 inverter power.&nbsp; However, we did go for eight years, powering everything from modified wave inverters, including the computerized sewing machine, lap top and a changing assortment of TV’s. &nbsp;Our HP printer is still powered by the big modified wave inverter.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The second inverter is a large modified wave power inverter (with no charger) that is also located close to the batteries and connected through a 400 amp time delay fuse with #4/0 cables.&nbsp; This happens to be an old Vector and no, I would not replace it with a Vector if it were to fail.&nbsp; It supplies the 120 volt panel in the rig through a manual transfer switch and there is a remote control switch in the Kitchen, so we can turn it on only when needed because it has an idle current draw of over two amps.&nbsp; (The breakers that feed the air conditioner and water heater are switched off and the fridge is switched to gas.)&nbsp; Since we never plug in, we never have to remember to flip the transfer switch.&nbsp; Manual switches are reliable.&nbsp; This inverter is a 2200 watt unit that has a surge capability of 4600 watts.&nbsp; It will successfully run my 1 ½ HP air compressor, table saw and anything else I want.&nbsp; I used it to power the seamless gutter installer’s machine at a cabin site in Montana.&nbsp; You should have seen the look on that guy’s face when I showed him where to plug in!&nbsp; I don’t own a battery charger, because I have no generator to run one with, and inverter chargers are expensive.&nbsp; Well, actually I did replace the converter with a tiny ten amp battery charger just in case, but it has only been plugged in when forced to park under trees at a friend’s house or when covered with snow, which we don’t count as being hooked up.&nbsp; It is located at the opposite end of the trailer from the batteries, so it does not work well.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">New inverter warning in 2010.&nbsp; UL has a new safety requirement that requires GFI protection be installed in inverters.&nbsp; Any with receptacles on them and no hard wire connection will likely be built this way. &nbsp;&nbsp;This has made most small inverters not suitable for connection to electrical distribution panels.&nbsp; All you can do is read the directions looking for this warning in the small print.&nbsp; If you try to connect to the whole panel with one of these inverters it will shut down, showing an AC output fault. You can use any inverter in an RV with an extension cord run to whatever you want to power; you just can’t tie some into the AC panel.&nbsp; Great, our government is making us buy expensive inverters with built in transfer switches to protect us from something that was not dangerous because our rigs already have GFI protection.&nbsp; See the high voltage warning below.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">If you can afford it, and already have a generator to power it, an inverter charger is the way to go.&nbsp; They have a built-in transfer switch, which simplifies installation, and a big charger that is programmable so it can be set up for whatever batteries you have, though it would be nice if they were set to a higher voltage.&nbsp; You must have a transfer switch because you will burn an inverter up by connecting its output to outside power fed back through the electrical panel.&nbsp; You would think that everybody in the RV business would know this, but I keep finding failed inverters installed without transfer switches by RV dealers and the owners of the rigs have no clue what has happened.&nbsp; I have found three where the installers had bypassed the built-in transfer switch in the inverter charger!&nbsp; The transfer switch can be a simple cord &amp; plug arrangement instead of a $100 automatic switch, just make sure it is fool proof.&nbsp; The biggest challenge with an inverter installation is figuring out how to hook it up to the loads; the whole panel, one phase of the panel in a 50 amp rig, add a separate panel or connect to one circuit only.&nbsp; There is just too much variety to make it simple and you have to be careful in order to do it safely.&nbsp; Whenever you read anything that tells you to always do it in any one way, you know that the author doesn’t have much experience.&nbsp; It is not that easy.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A word about Sine wave inverters:&nbsp; Unless you need to power something that must have a pure sine wave, (and don’t believe everything you hear), you don’t have to spend the extra money.&nbsp; I know, a pure sine wave inverter does a better job of powering a microwave, toaster or hair dryer, but how much money do you have to throw away?&nbsp; The money we saved is more important to us than the convenience of running the toaster for a few seconds less.&nbsp; Big sine wave inverters are expensive and they have high idle losses, (up to five amps) which can be enough to require you to buy another solar panel.&nbsp; Get that appliance to somebody with a decent modified wave inverter, plug it in and find out for yourself if it works.&nbsp; Just don’t buy the cheapest inverter you can find.&nbsp; The “soft start” units work better.&nbsp; My inverter starts 1 ½ hp tools like they are plugged into the grid.&nbsp; My last inverter was an old Heart 1000 and it worked just fine, except that it was too small to run my power tools.&nbsp; I have been recharging my Dewalt tool batteries for 10 years on modified sine wave inverters and haven’t burned one up yet.&nbsp; So much for that “fact”.&nbsp; We have friends that run big juicers and food processors on their modified wave inverters.&nbsp; The only appliances I have heard of that absolutely need sine wave power are residential refrigerators, washing machines, some air purifiers, some desk top computers and Craftsman brand battery chargers.&nbsp; Both the inverter and appliance manufacturers are controlled by their lawyers; they are overly cautious.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Warning:&nbsp; Properly adjusted solar systems with temperature compensation will regularly exceed the 15 volts many inverters use as a high voltage shut down.</strong>&nbsp; Xantrex has changed their X-Power line so that their inverters, manufactured by a company that also makes solar charge controllers, will not work on solar systems.&nbsp; Most of the cheap inverters have this problem, as well as noisy fans that run continuously.&nbsp; Go Power, Cobra, Whistler and most others have this problem. These companies don’t realize that there is another market besides the truckers.&nbsp; Aims inverters work at over 15V, but you don’t want to know what kind of failure rate I have seen.&nbsp; The Morningstar Sure Sine 300 has no fan, a 600 watt surge rating and very low idle current.&nbsp; Of course; it costs nearly $300.&nbsp; I finally bought one anyway and have not regretted it.&nbsp; Some of the Samlex inverters will work, but you must check their specs carefully because they changed some without notice, causing me problems.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">INSTALLATION &amp; LOCATION OF EQUIPMENT:</strong>&nbsp;Locate the charge controller as close to the batteries as you can.&nbsp; It puts out the power that the batteries need and if you run any distance to them, they won’t receive that power.&nbsp; Go back and reread what I said about wiring earlier.&nbsp; While you can compensate for voltage drop in wires that are too long by turning the controller set point up, this is bad practice because the voltage at the batteries will rise as the amps drop off late in the day.&nbsp; You can easily end up with an over voltage condition, causing all kinds of problems.&nbsp; So, you have to set it too low to really get the batteries full while the amps are being generated in the middle of the day.&nbsp; Try to find a short route to get from the roof straight to the batteries and put the controller between, at the battery end of the run.&nbsp; You will learn over time that the controller does not need to be constantly watched, so worry more about how well it works than how easy it is to see.&nbsp; Mine is buried in the basement and I never look at it.&nbsp; While the refrigerator vent is an attractive route for wires, it is hot and is rarely in the right place.&nbsp; Run the wires up inside of a wall, cabinet or closet.&nbsp; Then go ahead and drill a hole in the roof and plug it by bolting a weatherproof box down over it that is sealed to the roof with caulk.&nbsp; This will never leak.&nbsp; Buy one big enough for all of the connections it will contain.&nbsp; Use big mechanical splices, (ground bars for AC panels work well) or wire nuts for small systems, and then seal the holes out onto the roof with UV resistant caulk like Dicor or ProFlex.&nbsp; A 4” sq. x 2” high plastic boxes with a gasketed cover works most of the time.&nbsp; You can run multiple 10 gauge standard solar system cables on the roof (one to each panel) and not worry about voltage drop, then run big, non sheathed cables down to the controller.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Locate the panels on the roof so that they are NEVER shaded at all by the vents, air conditioner, etc.&nbsp; There are a few panels on the market that will lose just&nbsp;<em style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">some</em>&nbsp;power if partially shaded, but many go completely dead if you shade just one cell (like with a TV antenna).&nbsp; Look at the photos at the end of this.&nbsp; The “professionals” that install systems have done a lot of poor installations by ignoring this problem.&nbsp; They must know better, so selling more panels has to be their agenda.&nbsp; I have been amazed and appalled several times when evaluating systems at what I found on the roof.&nbsp; You don’t really want to have a lot of extra holes in your roof (like on mine) due to poor planning, so try to get it right.&nbsp; If you are going to go to the money and effort to tip them, make sure you get hardware that gets them up higher than 45 degrees.&nbsp; I’ve seen a lot of standard mounting bars holding panels at 30 degrees or less (about 10% less power).&nbsp; Last, you need to face the panels south.&nbsp; I have seen several rigs parked with their panels tilted up &amp; facing east!&nbsp; I’m afraid to ask what their “really good” reason for this might be!&nbsp; Their systems are completely shut off in the afternoon when the sun is shining on the bottoms of their panels!&nbsp; I have also seen a lot of panels arranged so that one panel partially shades another (the same power at twice the price).&nbsp; I have learned to not ask questions of those that are obviously challenged, just like those guys with 6 panels &amp; a generator running on a sunny day.&nbsp; I have tired of trying to reason with the unreasonable.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">FUSING:&nbsp;</strong>This just flabbergasts me but I run into unfused wiring all the time in RV’s; a lot of it installed by the original RV manufacturer, and some installed by “professional” RV technicians.&nbsp; I say “fuse” on purpose.&nbsp; I don’t like the automotive type automatic circuit breakers.&nbsp; First; you can’t turn them off like you can pull a fuse for disconnecting; and second, breakers are mechanical devices that are prone to failure.&nbsp; I have also found a few that were drawing a phantom load.&nbsp; Don’t use the in-line fuses with springs behind them for a heavy, constant load like solar charging.&nbsp; They tend to get warm and eventually melt down.&nbsp; This is true even for the larger ones in a clear plastic case that the solar dealers sell.&nbsp; I use the 250V cartridge type commercial fuses &amp; holders.&nbsp;&nbsp; One of the folks I sent this to came up with a brilliant suggestion for fusing the solar leads; a two pole fused air conditioner electrical box with a pull-out disconnect.&nbsp; They are available 30 &amp; 60 amp and have #4 lugs for the big wires we need to use.&nbsp; Connect the input from the panels to the controller on one side &amp; the output from the controller to the batteries on the other.&nbsp; Disconnecting the entire solar system is then one simple motion.&nbsp; They are dependable and cheap, however the cheap one available at the box stores will not hold up to a constant DC load over about 25 amps, so look for a Midwest or GE.&nbsp; The bottom line is that every single positive wire needs to be fused within inches of the battery so that it will be protected should it ever rub against something metal and cause a short, starting a fire, or worse.&nbsp; Batteries have been known to explode if shorted to ground.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><strong style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">SUMMARY:&nbsp;</strong>We are improving the RV world one rig at a time.&nbsp; Please tell your friends and hand copies of this out like confetti, just don’t give it to the “professionals” who will tend to get defensive and disagree with half of what I say. &nbsp;I get a lot of “Bob obviously doesn’t know what he is talking about” from people who sell equipment or constantly run generators.&nbsp; I recently saw a letter from a dealer selling portable panels who claimed that I didn’t know the correct charge voltage and that auto systems run at 13.8V.&nbsp; SAY WHAT??&nbsp; (Does the man even own a volt meter?)&nbsp; You can take your volt meter to your auto &amp; figure out for yourself in a minute or two just who the idiot is here. &nbsp;I am the voice in the wilderness where no generator can be heard.&nbsp; One of the dealers has even labeled me “Overkill” Bob.&nbsp; I have no problem with that, because he has it backward.&nbsp; If you let him, he will sell you more panels than you need and a $600 controller that definitely deserves the overkill moniker, plus nothing but a true sine wave inverter, and try to convince you with a very arrogant attitude that you are stupid if you don’t buy both.&nbsp; THAT is the very definition of overkill.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">There is a better way and you do not have to buy a generator first to go boondocking.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Generators??………….&nbsp; We don’t need no stinking generators.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">If you have read this far, you are probably serious enough about the problem for me to share my email address:&nbsp; bobanene@gmail.com</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">————————————————————————————</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">NEW INFO ADDED 2012:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">If you have read this far you must be serious enough about this to be thinking about installing solar, so here I will share something about do it yourself installations.&nbsp; Jack Mayer wrote a book about RV Solar and has it available for free on his web site.&nbsp; IMHO, he should be charging $50 per copy for it:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm" rel="nofollow" style="border: 0px; color: #414141; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;">http://www.jackdanmayer.com/rv_electrical_and_solar.htm</a></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Now, when you read that remember where Jack is coming from.&nbsp; Compare our rigs and our lifestyle.&nbsp; What am I saying?&nbsp; His information is nearly all good, but it is from the viewpoint of one who has a lot more money to spend.&nbsp; He and I agree on most things and disagree mostly on MPPT.&nbsp; His “golden rules” are aimed at folks with money.&nbsp; My views are more budget conscious and aimed more at smaller systems where MPPT is not worth what it costs. &nbsp; I recommend MPPT only on systems over 600 watts.&nbsp; I also will tell you that his opinions on cheap batteries are not in agreement with my experience and that hammer crimping of cable terminals is not a smart thing to do.&nbsp; If you have to use the hammer crimper, squeeze it in a big vice.&nbsp; Hammered copper does tend to rebound.&nbsp; Under constant load a hammered crimp can get loose and then it will get hot.&nbsp;&nbsp; This is not opinion, it is based on my experience.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">————————————————————————————-</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">NEW INFO &amp; PHOTOS ADDED JULY 26, 2009:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Now for some photos of the problems I have found.&nbsp; It seems that photos are needed to drive the point home about the things I write about.&nbsp; These are just a few examples.&nbsp; I have found similar issues on systems installed by the majority of the RV solar dealers, even those that have a good reputation.&nbsp; Some of them have gotten better over time, but I have found problems in installations done by most of them.&nbsp; As I have said over &amp; over, most people with solar power don’t know if it is working properly.&nbsp; These photos are of systems owned by people who sought me out because they had talked to others who have solar power that now works, thanks to my help.&nbsp; I only recently started taking photos because I never intended to go to this much trouble.&nbsp; Early on I optimistically believed the problems were rare, but over time I found that problems like these are way too common.&nbsp; Some of the photos that I didn’t take would have been a lot worse than these.&nbsp; I have found everything from stupid mistakes to extremely dangerous wiring problems that would scare you to death.&nbsp; I have nothing but my memory to relate most of them.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The numbers I give for amps &amp; percentage loss are based on measurements taken with a very expensive Amprobe clamp-on meter.&nbsp; Watching the output shown on the meter while moving a panel or causing small shadows is something that really opens people’s eyes.&nbsp; Nobody wants to believe what I say about small shadows causing big losses, but it is true.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">CASE STUDY #1:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">This is a 40 foot motor home with six solar panels and a generator that runs nearly every day.&nbsp; They have a small freezer in their utility trailer and they own a 38 inch TV.&nbsp; While most folks think this is just too much to expect of solar power, you need to think about this. &nbsp;This system is 720 watts, enough power to run a small home, if the energy produced by those panels could only get into the batteries.&nbsp; What I found on the roof was unbelievable.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Minus 2.5 amps" height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/minus-2-5-amps1.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Minus 2.5 amps" width="440" />Minus 2.9 amps.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">You would never believe that unless you saw what happened to the meter readout when we unbolted the panel and moved it about two inches.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Two shadows add up to minus 6.4 amps." height="586" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/minus-6-4-amps.jpg?w=440&amp;h=586" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Minus 6.4 amps" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Minus 6.4 amps from these two panels!!&nbsp;&nbsp;This is 90 % of the output of a full panel.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">What I found in the battery compartment was even worse that what was on the roof.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Poor location for a charge controller." height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/bad-controller-location.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Bad controller location" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">The 40 amp controller in this photo was installed in the battery compartment by the best dealer in Quartzsite and they told the owner of this motor home that they would guaranty it forever.&nbsp; Not only is this bad because of the potential explosive hazard due to Hydrogen gas and the corrosion problems due to sulfuric acid, (the stainless steel cover screws were rusty), it was connected to a potential of 42 amps from the panels with #8 wire, dropping the voltage so low that the batteries were never charged.&nbsp; The batteries were shot due to constantly being undercharged.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">I refused to work on it unless I could replace the controller with a properly rated Morningstar Tristar with a temperature sensor and locate it in the next compartment over with the inverter.&nbsp; After rewiring with #4 cables, fixing the multiple shading problems on the roof, and doing some reprogramming and education concerning his Link meter, this guy now successfully runs everything he wants, including a the 38”TV and the freezer, without running the generator.&nbsp; The generator is only needed after a couple of cloudy days.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">CASE STUDY #2:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A 40 foot fifth wheel with six panels, three controllers and owners who never use electricity because their system does not work and they hate to run their generator.&nbsp; The people that own this rig had spent over $6000 and were afraid to turn anything on.&nbsp; This is a perfect example of what I say about the dealers setting you up for failure. &nbsp;The problems were unbelievable, from six improperly wired batteries scattered in three different compartments to long runs of #10 wires from three junk charge controllers mounted up near the ceiling.&nbsp; Only two of the six panels did not have shadowing problems.&nbsp; These folks had bought solar, added to it twice and it still didn’t work.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">They bought from one of those “professional” dealers in Quartzsite who has been in the solar business for years and turns out non-working systems daily.&nbsp; The cheap controllers he supplied are not suitable for paralleling and it says that right in the instructions that come with them.&nbsp; I guess “Professionals” don’t need to read the instructions.&nbsp; Then, this dealer has been installing 25 ft runs of #10 wire for years and seems to have absolutely no clue about the voltage drop this causes.&nbsp; After having several conversations with this guy, I suspect that he does know, but doesn’t care.&nbsp; People with under wired systems buy lots of expensive solar panels and that is where the profit is in the solar business.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Minus 50%, worse if tilted." height="586" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/minus-501.jpg?w=440&amp;h=586" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Minus 50%" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Minus 50% of the panel.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">I should have taken a close-up of the terminal strip next to the air conditioner.&nbsp; It was the kind of thing intended for use in a protected, dry environment, but it was installed exposed on the roof.&nbsp; The connections were rusty and the wires were exposed to the sun.&nbsp; We moved the panel a couple of inches over &amp; up to get out of the shadow and added tilts to both panels in the photo, resulting in more than doubling the amp hours.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Minus 2.9 amps." height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/minus-2-9-amps1.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Minus 2.9 amps" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Minus 2.9 amps, almost 30%.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Adding legs to the mounts &amp; raising the panel a couple of inches solved the problem.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Dead, zero, nada." height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/dead2.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Dead" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Dead, zero!!&nbsp; No amps at all.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Same rig, but Teton is to blame this time.&nbsp; They had unknowingly copied the solar dealer’s mistakes.&nbsp; Really though, were those accidental or on purpose?&nbsp; That guy has been in the solar business long enough to know better. &nbsp;I often wonder if the system in his own bus is any better.&nbsp; This panel was shut off by the dish in the morning and the air conditioner in the afternoon.&nbsp; It worked for just a couple of hours a day.&nbsp; There was another panel just ahead of the air conditioner with morning shade problems.&nbsp; By moving these two panels and adding tilting mounts we probably tripled the amp hours.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">This system now has a Morningstar Tristar controller with temperature regulation, #4 cables down from the roof and a Trimetric 2020 battery monitor.&nbsp; Their rig is just about the most beautiful full timing mobile home you can find, with everything from a 42” TV with satellite &amp; Tevo, broadband internet dish with a wide screen lap-top to a built in vacuum system and they may never have to plug it in again.&nbsp; I hadn’t heard from them in months, so finally I phoned to ask how things were going.&nbsp; I was told that it was working just like I told them it would.&nbsp; They hadn’t called because they didn’t need to.&nbsp; They were now running everything and the generator hadn’t been run in months.&nbsp; They would have been successful with only four panels, if only they had been installed correctly.&nbsp; Now, with six panels they can run whatever they want on cloudy days.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">CASE STUDY #3:</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">A nearly new motor home with recently installed solar that did not work.&nbsp; These folks are more of the “minimalist” type, who never wanted to be able to use the microwave or a toaster.&nbsp; They were hoping that two panels would run their rig and then let them use their TV for a couple of hours and power the lap-top for checking e-mail.&nbsp; They didn’t have enough power to do that and were ready to go back to the dealer with the money back guaranty to buy another panel.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Suprize! MInus 2.5 amps." height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/suprize-minus-2-5-amps1.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Suprize! Minus 2.5 amps" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><img alt="Close-up." height="330" src="https://handybobsolar.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/close-up-minus-2-5-amps.jpg?w=440&amp;h=330" style="height: auto; max-width: 100%;" title="Close-up minus 2.5 amps" width="440" /></div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">Surprise!&nbsp; That tiny shadow from the vent cover is cutting the power produced by 2.5 amps, 30% of the possible output from that panel.&nbsp; Before you say that all the guy has to do is lower the vent cover a little, think about the shadow that would be there if a Max Air cover were installed.&nbsp; Don’t you think that somebody who has been installing RV solar for as long as that dealer should know better?&nbsp; No warning was given.&nbsp; I doubt that the installer had a clue about what he had done.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">I have no photos of the rest of the problems in this rig, so read my “More System Problems 2009” where the voltage drop issue is explained.&nbsp; (Adding a note here 2013…&nbsp; I deleted that page, but the important points were that charge controllers need to be located at the batteries in order to work and negative solar wires should not be connected to the frame.) &nbsp; Thanks to a new Morningstar Tristar 45 amp controller with temperature compensation that I mounted two feet from the batteries (after extending the #8 negative wire to there) and a Trimetric 2020 battery monitor, I talked these folks out of buying another solar panel.&nbsp; (It took a lot of talking; they were convinced that another panel would solve their lack of power, while it was actually caused by poor installation.)&nbsp; The last time I talked to them it was looking like they were getting about 105 amp hours per day into their batteries on an April day with the panels flat, about 10% more than they could get before with the expensive little “boost” controller that I had removed, even if it had been rewired correctly.&nbsp; I got to this conclusion by monitoring a nearly identical installation in another rig that kept the boost controller, but moved it close to the batteries.&nbsp; Three stage charge controllers that cost less than $200 do work a lot better.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">These folks are now successfully everything they wanted to with only two panels.&nbsp; They may have to occasionally run their generator, but since it is one of the big diesels, connected thru a very good Magnum inverter/charger and both are already paid for, what the heck.&nbsp; Spending the money for another panel that would require them to rewire the whole system because of increased voltage drop does not make sense.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">ONE LAST TIME:&nbsp; I AM NOT SELLING SOLAR EQUIPMENT!</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">_________________________________________________________</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">RV SOLAR POWER – THE SHORT COURSE by HandyBob 12/08</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">If you want to solar power your RV &amp; don’t have the ability or inclination to install it yourself, the following is the&nbsp;<span style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">minimum</span>&nbsp;that you need to know.&nbsp; Any RV solar dealer that argues with you on any of these points is clueless.&nbsp; Unfortunately, I believe all of the dealers in Quartzsite will fail this test, even the ones with the “good” reputation.&nbsp; I have seen their work, repaired a lot of it, and I get mad every time I drive by &amp; see what is going on in their work bays.&nbsp; Consider buying your equipment on line or mail order &amp; then finding someone handy with wiring to help you install it.&nbsp; Any good RV tech can do it, but you have to tell them where to put it and the size of wire to use.&nbsp; I do recommend Backwoods Solar as a good, honest supplier.&nbsp; Phone 208-263-4290 – Catalogs are free and have a lot of good basic educational info for the solar power wannabe.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">1.&nbsp; If you really want to successfully depend on battery power install a Trimetric 2020 (or newer model) battery monitor / recording amp hour meter (sometimes called E meter).&nbsp; I have hooked up over a dozen of these &amp; everybody loves them.&nbsp; This is available for less than $200 and should add about $300 installed to the cost of a system.&nbsp; Installing this before you buy solar &amp; learning how to read it will show you how much power you actually use and help you size your solar system for your needs instead of spending a fortune on panels that some salesman tells you that you need, without knowing a thing about your life.&nbsp; It will pay for itself.&nbsp; If the company you are dealing with does not offer this meter or a similar one like the Link or the built-in one that comes in the Blue Sky IPN-PRO remote and tries to tell you that you don’t need it; walk away.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">2.&nbsp; Buy a three stage charge controller that is adjustable and set it as recommended by the battery manufacturer (14.8V if you have wet cell golf cart batteries).&nbsp; I know of only one RV solar dealer that is doing this.&nbsp; This controller does not have to be an expensive Blue Sky or Outback unit in order to work.&nbsp; Both the Morningstar Tristar (my favorite) and the Xantrex C series non boosting “ugly box” units do a better job of charging for less than $200 than any of the little fancy looking flush mounted charge controllers with lights, bells &amp; whistles that the RV solar guys are pushing.&nbsp; Do not let anybody talk you into anything else.&nbsp; The expensive Blue Sky Solar Boost 2000E is not a three stage unit and it reduces the power that your solar panels produce before the batteries are full.&nbsp; A three stage charger keeps charging after reaching the voltage set point.&nbsp; An ugly little Morningstar Sunsaver (three stage with temperature compensation built in) will do a better job of actually charging a battery until it is full.&nbsp; Buy an expensive Blue Sky or Outback three stage controller if you have gobs of money, but it is not necessary and not worth the expense on small systems.&nbsp; If the company you are dealing with tries to tell you that you must buy the small MPPT (boosting) controller or you are wasting the watts your panels produce; walk away. &nbsp; Seriously, he is in the profit generating business, not the power generating business.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">3.&nbsp; Buy the temperature compensation sensor option ($30).&nbsp; This will raise the voltage when your batteries are cold, so they will get a better charge &amp; reduce the voltage when they are warm, to protect them from over charging and venting too much electrolyte.&nbsp; If the company you are talking to does not have the temperature sensors in stock or tries to talk you out of it, they are clueless; walk away.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">4.&nbsp; Insist on the charge controller being located as close to the batteries as possible (wire run length, not physical location).&nbsp; In no case should it be even six feet away.&nbsp; The voltage drop between it and the batteries will prevent your expensive power from reaching your batteries &amp; getting them fully charged.&nbsp; Also, insist that the wire between the controller and the batteries be over sized, at least one size larger than required by the amp rating in order to limit the voltage drop to less than 1%.&nbsp; The wire from the roof to the charge controller needs to be sized for a maximum of 3% voltage drop.&nbsp; The overall drop, panels to charge controller needs to be close to 5 or 6%. &nbsp;There are voltage drop tables in the manuals for the good controllers and guess what; they are missing in those for the pretty ones that don’t work. &nbsp;The voltage drop from the panels to the controller doesn’t hurt if kept to a reasonable level, but from there to the batteries it is critical.&nbsp; #10 wire is not big.&nbsp; #4 is the correct size, not overkill, for four panel systems and the dealers in Quartzsite don’t even sell it, which should tell you something.&nbsp; If the guy trying to sell you a system says that all systems have voltage drop &amp; it doesn’t matter where in the system it is; walk away.</div><div style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin-bottom: 1.5em; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;">5.&nbsp; Do not let anybody tell you that it is OK to have any shadows on your panels from antennas, vent covers, air conditioners, etc. no matter how small.&nbsp; They are setting you up for failure.&nbsp; Tiny shadows will reduce the power produced by 25 to 50% and covering one square shuts most panels completely off.&nbsp; Many of the solar guys are clueless about this.&nbsp; I have proven this time &amp; again to many folks.&nbsp; This is extremely important!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Again; JUST WALK AWAY!</div></div></article></div></div></div><br /><br /><footer class="site-footer" id="colophon" role="contentinfo" style="background-color: #e6e6e6; color: #666666; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 11px; margin-top: 15px; position: absolute;"><div class="site-info" style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><span class="credits" style="border: 0px; display: inline-block; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 2px 0px 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><a href="https://wordpress.com/?ref=footer_blog" style="border: 0px; color: #414141; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; margin: 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; text-decoration-line: none; vertical-align: baseline;">Blog at WordPress.com.</a></span></div></footer><br /><div><div class="comments-area clearfix" id="comments" style="background-color: #e6e6e6; border: 0px; color: #666666; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; margin: 40px 0px 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; vertical-align: baseline;"><ol class="commentlist" style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; list-style-image: initial; list-style-position: initial; margin: 0px 0px 55px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; vertical-align: baseline;"><li class="post pingback" style="border: 0px; font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-weight: inherit; list-style-type: none; margin: 55px 0px 0px; outline: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; vertical-align: baseline;"></li></ol></div></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-83135134819460020252017-06-19T10:00:00.002-05:002017-06-19T10:00:31.611-05:00Why your refrigerator may not work on propane above 8,000 feet.<br /><br />From a RV tech:<br /><br />There are no adjustments to anything that will make a difference. Removing the protective cover around the burner housing to allow more air to get to the burner might help because the problem is a lack of oxygen and cold temps.<br /><br />This explains what's happening.<br /><br /><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>•<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Propane gas will only ignite when the turbulence from jet causes the propane to mix with the air as it shoots out of the orifice.<br /><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>•<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>Propane ignition requires at least 2.15% but less than 9.6% propane gas.<br /><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>•<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>At high altitudes, there is less air so the normal orifice is slightly too large and delivers too much propane.<br /><span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>•<span class="Apple-tab-span" style="white-space: pre;"> </span>If the temperature of the tank is also low, the propane density is increased and the 9.6% limit is exceeded.<br /><br />Propane Limits of Flammability - The lower and upper limits of flammability are the percentages of propane that must be present in a propane/air mixture. This means that between 2.15 and 9.6% of the total propane/air mixture must be propane in order for it to be combustible. If the mixture is 2% propane and 98% air, there will not be combustion. If the mixture 10% propane and 90% air, combustion will not occur. Any percentage of propane in a propane/air mixture between 2.15% and 9.6% will be sufficient for propane to burn.<br /><br />Contributed&nbsp;by Ed Daniels<br /><div><br /></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-86465808506109051822017-03-31T10:15:00.002-05:002017-03-31T10:15:20.754-05:00Replacement of WH Gas Valve<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Last year I replaced the control board and that solved the problem of no spark to ignite the flame. It did not address the gurgling noise made by the flame. It was not caused by the air/fuel mixture. I ordered a new gas valve from Amazon, installed it and the flame is quiet again. [I know describing a flame as quiet or noisy is not the correct, but it's the best I can do right now]</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Installation is easy and I was comfortable doing it.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Turn off the gas</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Unclip the DC supply</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Unscrew the gas feed line</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Unscrew the single screw that holds the valve to the bracket.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Remove the gas valve.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Remove the gas jet with vice grips and put on the new valve.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Put the new valve in place, attach it to the bracket, put the supply line back on and plug the DC supply.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Turn on the gas and wait much longer than you imagine for the gas to get to the WH.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Fire it up.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Turn it off and check for leaks.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span><br />Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-27344048892983247092017-03-18T10:15:00.002-05:002017-03-26T06:24:16.528-05:00DIY Solar Install<style type="text/css"> p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 20.0px Arial; color: #252525; -webkit-text-stroke: #252525} span.s1 {font-kerning: none} </style> <br /><div class="p1"><br /></div><div class="p1"><b><br /></b></div><div class="p1"><b>This is well worth reading for anyone considering a DIY Solar Install. Lots of pictures!</b><br /><b><br /></b><b><a href="http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=29335.msg171087#msg171087" target="_blank">DIY Solar Install</a></b></div><div class="p1"><br /></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-82132758653552845052017-03-16T05:52:00.000-05:002017-03-16T05:52:01.727-05:00Fogged Windows Repair at RV Glass Solutions<span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Review of the Phoenix location of RV Glass Solutions. Their main location is in Coburg, OR.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">We are having those three windows repaired. They also offer replacement with either insulated glass or laminated glass. We looked at a sample of the laminated glass and don't think it is as dark as the glass used by LD. They claim that the laminated glass would add about 5 pounds of weight per glass piece. However, only the Coburg location cuts new glass.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Cost to repair is $325 per window. The work is guaranteed for 2 years.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">The facility looks good and they have a secure lot with three 50 amp hookups. We arrived last night.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">They have just removed the first window in the living room and it was not installed with butyl tape but used double adhesive foam tape and then a bead of caulk around the outside edge. Based on my contact with various repair shops double sticky foam tape appears to be the standard. You can see an installation here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MuVSRpjGCA</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">No sign of water intrusion on the first one, at least.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">It took all day to finish the job with two working on it. They used a black polyurethane sealant/adhesive completely around the circumference after installation. The windows look great and as an added bonus they are incredibly easy to open and close now. I can only assume that was from a cleaning of the interior of the frame.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Total cost was $975 so no additional charges for materials.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Now only time will tell how long the re-sealing will hold up.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Four months later we have been through plenty of rain with no sign of leaks. There was no damage to frames and we were happy with our experience.</span></span><br /><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: Open Sans, Segoe UI, Helvetica Neue, Liberation Sans, Nimbus Sans L, Trebuchet MS, Arial, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Jim Cummings - 2016</span></span>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-90644081841526027482017-03-15T12:34:00.000-05:002017-03-15T12:36:23.713-05:00Fogged Windows<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">[Note to Lazy Daze Owners Forum. Where to get windows defogged has come up more than once. I don’t recall anyone responding where they had their windows done. Perhaps none of them read or post to this forum? If there are positive or negative reviews, may I suggest this would be a good time to post them]</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">This a negative review on Suncoast Designs&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">February, 2017 - We went to Hudson, FL to have Suncoast Designs clean five fogged windows in our Lazy Daze MH. &nbsp;Before we made an appointment we asked if they had worked on a Lazy Daze before. We were assured they had and it would be no problem. When we arrived they said they had done six Lazy Daze in the last few months.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">First, the good thing - the windows are clean and clear. Except for one, which already has condensation in it.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">When we checked in, the short conversation was very terse. No nice to meet you. We had to pull the information out of her. Where should we park? Where is the dump? What is the WiFi password? etc.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">The first thing the next morning, two young, trim, agile men came to remove the valances and shades. Mission accomplished they left. Two others were outside cutting the caulk on the windows with razor blades. This went on for about 90 minutes. The windows barely budged. The original team returned to find out what was taking so long. They said they it usually took 5 to 10 minutes to remove a window. The original pair, led by Austin, went into a frenzied physical mode using pry bars to remove the windows. At this point I did not know they were bending the window frames in the process. I would not know this until the windows were put back in and bulges in the frames showed where the pry bar was used.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">After a window was removed, I could see why removal was difficult. The manufacturer put a bead of Locite sealant on the aluminum skin which bonded with the aluminum frame. Another rubber like sealant was used to prevent water from even getting to the Loctite. A belt and suspenders deal. One could argue it’s overkill. I am not so sure.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">Before a pry bar was used, we should have appraised that they were experiencing difficulties they had <u>never</u>&nbsp;encountered before. And we should have been offered some choices. Such as:</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">1) Abandon the project.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">2) Advise us the window frames would be bent if they continued.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">3) That an additional charge would have to be made because of the extra time needed to remove the windows without bending them.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">But they said nothing and we did not know the frames were being bent.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">They sealed the window openings with plastic lined cardboard held on with painters tape. Remember the painters tape, this will come into play the next day.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">The next day, they had us bring the rig inside to put the windows back in, as it was raining.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">That’s when we heard a rubber mallet pounding the bent frames almost back into shape. They applied a bead caulk ONLY to the exterior. No caulk was put under the lip of the window between the frame and the aluminum skin. That means the caulk will have to be redone every 1/2 years due to deterioration from UV light.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">This is when I find two places where the paint was lifted off where the painters tape that held the plastic lined cardboard on overnight. One of the men told us that they had told the manager/owner about this problem with the tape before. [Since the majority of rigs are fiberglass, this would not be problem]</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nwlcXrOPmHk/WMl4d_4Vs4I/AAAAAAAAIq4/eOGAsqfayHUON60aUdui5zi0udLHSLwyQCLcB/s1600/Suncoast11.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nwlcXrOPmHk/WMl4d_4Vs4I/AAAAAAAAIq4/eOGAsqfayHUON60aUdui5zi0udLHSLwyQCLcB/s640/Suncoast11.JPG" width="640" /></span></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Scapes from the pry bar</span></div><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eoUWQJjRzJM/WMl4d17WlEI/AAAAAAAAIq8/LGdgiwnYynEbHcF_gXjpAgLxdvkb7ZQDgCLcB/s1600/Suncoast12.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-eoUWQJjRzJM/WMl4d17WlEI/AAAAAAAAIq8/LGdgiwnYynEbHcF_gXjpAgLxdvkb7ZQDgCLcB/s640/Suncoast12.JPG" width="640" /></span></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Paint lifted by the tape used</span></div><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nhWCDmqZi5I/WMl4eKH6mOI/AAAAAAAAIrA/CBSMpxROm6Q_h_aSNLT8Qtfu9VvTVHhGQCLcB/s1600/Suncoast17.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nhWCDmqZi5I/WMl4eKH6mOI/AAAAAAAAIrA/CBSMpxROm6Q_h_aSNLT8Qtfu9VvTVHhGQCLcB/s640/Suncoast17.JPG" width="640" /></span></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">&nbsp;<span style="text-align: center;">Paint lifted by the tape used. You can see the only seal is between the window and paint</span></span></div><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span></span><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QN9R8DXySKk/WMl4d8TYcoI/AAAAAAAAIq0/eHieSCUXmeUU0GxtGuiLXqeUAKElGbq_gCLcB/s1600/Suncoast15.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-QN9R8DXySKk/WMl4d8TYcoI/AAAAAAAAIq0/eHieSCUXmeUU0GxtGuiLXqeUAKElGbq_gCLcB/s640/Suncoast15.JPG" width="640" /></span></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Close up of the previous picture</span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aD_QdULCLuc/WMl4eM11Q9I/AAAAAAAAIrI/cgIFYOCNCfwkX9qECubov6IJZuEZ79EDgCEw/s1600/Suncoast18.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><img border="0" height="360" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-aD_QdULCLuc/WMl4eM11Q9I/AAAAAAAAIrI/cgIFYOCNCfwkX9qECubov6IJZuEZ79EDgCEw/s640/Suncoast18.JPG" width="640" /></span></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Another scratch from the pry bar</span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The day ends at 5. They did not do a water test because it was raining. Overnight it rained. One window, over a couch, was not sealed at the top. They sealed it.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">We were asked to sign a checklist that said the work had been done. I noted the GM had already signed it, even though he had not looked at our rig. In fact, we did not see him out of the building the time we were there.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">Now the second experience - not at all pleasant! &nbsp;We go inside to pay and asked to speak to the manager. The customer rep, Taylor, says the General Manager has already seen the pictures where the paint was removed and they will take no responsibility for it. We think we should get some credit to have it repainted. &nbsp;She is determined that will not happen, but finally admits she is authorized to give us $100 off. &nbsp;After some arguing and then demanding to speak to manager/owner. He comes out of his office, walks down the hall past us and places himself behind the counter and proceeds to tell us off. He never introduced himself, but we found out he is the deceased owner’s son.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">The GM is arrogant. Nothing is their fault. It’s all Lazy Daze fault because they use cheap paint and are built on the cheap. Anyone that knows Lazy Daze, knows cheap is not a word that can describe any part of them. They have held a five-star rating for decades. The paint is a two part epoxy that lasts for over 20 years without fading. And get this, not only did the painters tape remove the cheap Lazy Daze paint, it also removed paint from the Hehr windows. Guess they use cheap paint also.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">Finally, he agrees to give us $150 off. Less than it will cost to have the paint touched up.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">Suncoast states that we signed a document during check-in advising us that paint removal might occur. That is prima facie evidence that they knew of the problem, but silently concealed it. Talk about Buyer Beware. No one would knowingly sign something that said they were giving Suncoast the right to damage their RV.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">Our Lazy Daze is nine years old and has zero factory defects. The paint is perfect, not a single bubble.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">I was always taught that the customer is always right, whether they are or not! &nbsp;Small businesses operate on the goodwill of customers. &nbsp;This guy was a total jerk and we would strongly recommend not using them, especially if you own a Lazy Daze or any other rig that is painted.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">BTW, I met two other owners in for service who were there as come-backs. Suncoast Designs claims the best warranty in the business, but what good is a warranty when you are thousands of miles away and the window is leaking. In fact, it is not much good if you park your rig next door to Suncoast Designs and do not check for water leaks after every rain.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">In fairness to Suncoast, not many RV’s are built to the quality standard of Lazy Daze. Other windows can be removed in five minutes&nbsp;because they are barely sealed at the factory. They leave Suncoast the same way. Most RVs have fiberglass skins, so paint removal is not an issue.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">We are still finding screws that were not put back in. Even though I loaned them a hex head tool to put them back in. We found one window screw hole that was stripped out.</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <span style="font-family: &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , sans-serif;">In summary:</span></span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The window frames were bent and show the bumps.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Paint was lifted off the exterior and the window frames.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">One window was not sealed and is showing internal condensation.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">One window was not externally sealed and rain soaked the bed.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">At least a dozen screws were not replaced.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Nothing is the fault of Suncoast.</span>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-18448527870158274852017-02-21T11:06:00.002-06:002017-02-21T11:06:35.937-06:00Replacing The Automatic Transfer Switch<div class="p1"><span class="s1">Does your rig have a hardwired surge protector?&nbsp; If so, you could have power at the source plug but nothing in the rig,&nbsp;</span><span style="-webkit-text-stroke-width: initial;">it sounds like a bad ATS is a likely culprit.&nbsp; While they usually fail in either Generator mode or Shore mode, I did have one that failed both ways.&nbsp; If you can get the generator going and have power, but none with the shore power, it is almost certain to be the ATS.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">Are your electrical skills up to working on the electronics?&nbsp; If so, here are step-by-step instructions to check and to replace the ATS.&nbsp; IF YOU ARE UNCERTAIN OF YOUR ABILITIES IN THIS AREA, DO NOT TRY THIS!</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">1) Cut the power. Check with a meter to be certain there is no 120v power in the system.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">2) Remove the brown power panel cover using a Torx head driver.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">3) There are 4 hex head screws going into the wood in the top left and right, and the middle left and right of the power panel frame. Remove them.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">4) Slide the power panel toward you until it clears the frame and you can tilt it forward to see the ATS mounted on the back.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">5) Open the top of the ATS.&nbsp; This is usually done by loosening or removing 1 to 3 screws on the ATS cover.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">6) Looking down into the ATS, you will see 3 bare grounds connected to lugs on the side, and you will see three white and three black wires connected to six lugs.&nbsp; I will call them 1 through 6, left to right.&nbsp; One, two and three are black and four, five and six are white. THIS IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS!&nbsp; Turn the power on and use your meter to check voltage on the wires.&nbsp; Check between #1 and #6, between #2 and #5, and between #3 and #4.&nbsp; On my rig 1 and 6 are the power from the ATS to the power panel, 2 and 5 are the generator and 3 and 4 are for the shore connection. If yours is wired differently, make a note of how your wires connect, so you get it right at re-assembly.&nbsp; With your rig connected to shore power, you should find 120v on the Shore connection pair, 3 and 4.&nbsp; Once you find power there, check 1 and 6.&nbsp; If there is no power there, the ATS is bad.&nbsp; If you have power at 1 and 6, the ATS is working, and your problem is probably inside the power panel.&nbsp; You need a pro. If you have no power coming in from the Shore Connection, your problems lie elsewhere, probably in your shore connection cable or its plug, its socket, or the plug on the wall of the RV.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">7) Turn the power off. MAKE SURE IT IS OFF!</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">I have worked on 4 ATS's, and all 4 attached differently to the power panel. In one case I had to remove the breakers, drill out rivets, and drill new holes for the self-tapping screws mounting the new ATS.&nbsp; I found a Parallax link at&nbsp;<a href="http://d163axztg8am2h.cloudfront.net/static/doc/f6/f3/baa96cf1c020f6f561dfa1303f92.pdf"><span class="s2">http://d163axztg8am2h.cloudfront.net/static/doc/f6/f3/baa96cf1c020f6f561dfa1303f92.pdf</span></a>&nbsp;that may be helpful.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">The basics are, loosen the 3 white, 3 black and 3 ground wire lugs.&nbsp; Loosen the strain reliefs.&nbsp; Remove wires, then remove the old ATS from the power panel.&nbsp; Attach the new ATS to the Power Panel.&nbsp; Re-mount the wiring, doing the grounds first, then 1 and 6 for the power panel, 2 and 5 for the generator, and 3 and 4 for the shore supply. Follow the torque settings for the lugs.&nbsp; That is important. [See diagram below]</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">Gee - I sure made that sound simple.&nbsp; When I did it, it has NEVER been simple. If it sounds confusing, challenging or intimidating, do not even try.&nbsp; Get a pro to do it for you. If you screw it up, you can fry your panel, fry your shore cable, burn up your rig, or fry yourself. I say again, if this is outside your skill set, get a pro to do it.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1">OK, put the cover on the ATS, slide the panel back into position, put in the 4 screws and re-mount the brown cover.&nbsp; You're done.</span></div><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div><style type="text/css"> p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 15.0px Arial; color: #333333; -webkit-text-stroke: #333333} p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 15.0px Arial; color: #333333; -webkit-text-stroke: #333333; min-height: 17.0px} span.s1 {font-kerning: none} span.s2 {font-kerning: none; color: #377828; -webkit-text-stroke: 0px #377828} </style> <br /><div class="p1"><span class="s1">Ken F in NM</span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mGDrW6kAz4s/WKxym_M1gfI/AAAAAAAAIps/I4yahvxn88s6Tb-5PaxtfWDQbXRCtnJUQCLcB/s1600/Transfer%2Brelay%2Bwiring%2Bdiagram.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="272" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-mGDrW6kAz4s/WKxym_M1gfI/AAAAAAAAIps/I4yahvxn88s6Tb-5PaxtfWDQbXRCtnJUQCLcB/s640/Transfer%2Brelay%2Bwiring%2Bdiagram.jpg" width="640" /></a></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><br /></span></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-17909918475693342922016-11-10T13:02:00.003-06:002016-11-10T13:02:50.559-06:00Replacing Refrigerator Seals<span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">We noted this year that the refrigerator was not as cool as before. We had to set it to the coldest setting and then it was only around 42. Before this year, on the mid-range setting it stayed about 38. The DW thought to do the dollar bill test. That found the seals needed to be replaced. [It a bill slips easily between the seal and the frame, the seals need replacing] No complaints, the unit is nine years old and unlike the one in the house, it’s subject to both freezing and 100 degree temps.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">I found Dometic seals on eBay for less than direct from Dometic. We have an RM2662 unit and the replacement seals are part number 3108704374. Check your model before ordering. We ordered from hard2findrvpart. The cost was a pricey $117.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The kit ships with double sided tape and a small tube of <u>food quality</u> silicon. I talked with the PM at hard2findrvpart and he advised to toss the tape and get a bigger tube of silicon because they found the tape will release. Lowe’s has DAP Commercial Kitchen Silicone Specialty Caulk which should work.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">To remove the doors, you will need two 10mm wrenches. There is a plastic cap topping the pivot pin for freezer door. When that is removed, the mystery of how the doors come off will be revealed.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">Removing the old seals will take two hours with a razor knife. The factory seals are installed in a channel and you will have to remove them from the channel. They seals were installed before the two pieces of the door were snapped together. There is no way to unsnap them. Hence the long time to cut them out. Do not try to pull the seal out. You will probably break the thin plastic. And that would mean a new door.</span><br /><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif;">The new seals lay flat on the door, not in the channel. Hence the need for a good sealant.</span><br /><div><br /></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-52005712557171905122016-10-24T10:55:00.001-05:002016-10-28T20:17:23.523-05:00My Thoughts On Towing<span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">I don't claim to know it all.</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><strong class="bbc_strong" style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">Why Tow</strong><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">It's a life style choice. We would not travel without our Jeep. We take our Lazy Daze places many would not. We take the Jeep to the places the LD can not go. If your traveling style means short duration trips, full hooks and stopping at scenic overlooks. You should be fine without a toad.</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><strong class="bbc_strong" style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">What To Tow</strong><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">Unless you intend to do some serious off-road wheeling, I would discourage getting a TJ or JK Jeep. They are special purpose vehicles for rock climbing, etc. If you want the convenience of a transfer case for towing, but don't intend to drive the Moab trails, you would save weight and money getting an older Grand Cherokee or a newer Renegade.&nbsp;</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">If you don't need a Jeep, there are some other vehicles, such as the Forester, which can be towed four down with few restrictions.</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">Got to have a Jeep? Consider the lighter weight TJ model that was built through 2006. If you want a new JK Jeep, consider the lighter 2DR rather then the popular 4DR. Understand that the rear seat on a 2DR is only suitable for dogs and small kids, but it's lighter and turns sharper than the Unlimited. Our rear seat came out the day we brought the Jeep home.</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><strong class="bbc_strong" style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">The Hitch</strong><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">An ongoing topic in the Lazy Days forum is towing over 4,000 pounds which is the rated maximum for the factory hitch. "Beefing up" the hitch is the common suggestion. What constitutes "beefing" is nebulous. How does one find a "good hitch shop". I am not willing to trust that just anyone knows how to do it. All I can say is that doubling the attachment to the frame might be the way to go. That seems like a simple task to me. Weld on two additional braces. Maybe that's all that's required.</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">We have towed a 4,250 pound Jeep for 95,000 miles on the factory hitch. Since 10% is a common engineering safety margin I am comfortable. I did upgrade the bumper bolts to Grade 8 with larger washers. I found several loose nuts in the process. I used blue Locktight when I put on the new bolts. The bolt upgrade may have increased the tow capacity? Whatever you are towing this is a MUST MOD. Thanks to Larry Wade for this excellent improvement.</span><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><b>September, 2016</b></span><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa;"><span style="color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">I followed Ed Daniels into a hitch shop in Moab, UT. Ed has a TK. The shop owner, Ben Wilson, did not think it needed anything extra to safely tow a 2016 Wrangler. Ed said he liked to tow down rough dirt roads. So Ben added a corner gusset to "beef it" up. Ben looked at my MB and saw no way to add any structural integrity. He drew out the TK design and compared it to the MB design. Way different. He saw no signs of metal fatigue after towing 95,000 miles. No wrinkles in the paint that would indicate the metal has been flexed. I felt better. I asked him to tack weld the adjustable part of the hitch, so it could not move if the bolts ever came loose again. And left feeling better about the LD hitch. If you are in the Moab area and want a pro to check yours out, the man to see is Ben Wilson at 435-260-2044.</span></span></span><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa;"><span style="color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span></span></span><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xDavUJdclYE/WA4uXv_PxSI/AAAAAAAAIlw/z8eoPxRTmHoI79gkfKehOMH_JzzDfkomQCLcB/s1600/%25238%2BBolts%2Bwith%2Bbacking%2Bplate.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="155" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-xDavUJdclYE/WA4uXv_PxSI/AAAAAAAAIlw/z8eoPxRTmHoI79gkfKehOMH_JzzDfkomQCLcB/s400/%25238%2BBolts%2Bwith%2Bbacking%2Bplate.JPG" width="400" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;">Larry Wade's backing plate</div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SdK9dyvlRyw/WA4uXooByhI/AAAAAAAAIl0/-N28H7WxmR8sAqdw8GG6PurSSvLLe6UagCLcB/s1600/hitch%2BED%2B23%2B1.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-SdK9dyvlRyw/WA4uXooByhI/AAAAAAAAIl0/-N28H7WxmR8sAqdw8GG6PurSSvLLe6UagCLcB/s400/hitch%2BED%2B23%2B1.JPG" width="300" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><br /></div><div style="text-align: center;">&nbsp;Ed Daniel's TK mod</div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-41Cp8r_cweU/WA4uXsoAySI/AAAAAAAAIl4/fW8sRi95sWAUOiPii8aTB5-vaSkttCJLACLcB/s1600/hitch%2BED%2B23%2B2.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="400" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-41Cp8r_cweU/WA4uXsoAySI/AAAAAAAAIl4/fW8sRi95sWAUOiPii8aTB5-vaSkttCJLACLcB/s400/hitch%2BED%2B23%2B2.JPG" width="300" /></a></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><span style="text-align: start;">&nbsp;Ed Daniel's TK mod</span></div><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Z7cYeplcmFg/WA4uYQDAtKI/AAAAAAAAIl8/nPQLyuLTbE0a0Rw0BDcErRS_u062ryyQACLcB/s1600/my%2Bbumper.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="300" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Z7cYeplcmFg/WA4uYQDAtKI/AAAAAAAAIl8/nPQLyuLTbE0a0Rw0BDcErRS_u062ryyQACLcB/s400/my%2Bbumper.JPG" width="400" /></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="background-color: #fafafa;"><span style="color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 14.994px;">Our MB tack welded just to prevent any movement in case of a loose bolt</span></span></span></div><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><b>The Crux Of The Matter</b></span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">If I were looking at a used LD I would be leery of one that had a beefed up hitch. I would wonder exactly how much they had been towing? There is not only the 4,000 hitch limit, there is the almost ignored 20,000 pound GCWR. That rating decreases as the elevation increases. I would wonder how the extra weight has affected the transmission? Did the owner monitor the transmission temperature with a gauge? How often was the fluid changed. I would look at the color of the fluid.&nbsp;</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">Downhill, the extra weight is stressing two components, the transmission and the brakes. Assuming you are using Tow Haul and allowing the engine to partially brake the decent, the&nbsp; extra weigh can spin the transmission toward the red line. Using the brakes more heats the rotors. Have you priced those lately? 2008 rigs come with larger rotors that should help. [Had I known Ford was going to make that change, I would have waited a few months to place the order]</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">It's balancing act to get the toad brakes to engage correctly. You sure don't want them coming on too hard and braking the Lazy Daze. The ability to set when and how hard the toad brakes come on are an advantage of systems like SMI makes.&nbsp;</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><strong class="bbc_strong" style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">Important, But Neglected GCWR</strong><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;"><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif;">You can move your rock collection from the LD to the toad axle, but all of the weight counts toward the GCWR.&nbsp;</span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif;">There is no free lunch.</span></span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif;">&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">The GCWR is reduced 2% per 1,000 feet of elevation. This applies to ALL E450 chassis with the V10 engine.</span><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">An example:</span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">We unhook, if we are going over 6,000 feet for any distance. Think of that long steep grade west of Denver. Our MB is 13,700 + 4,250 for the Jeep, for a total of 18,000 -&nbsp; inside the max GCWR of 20,000 at sea level, but not above 5,000 feet. Folks, you should be just as concerned about the&nbsp;</span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">GCWR as the&nbsp;</span><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">hitch limit.</span><br /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;"><br /></span><span style="color: #444444; font-family: open sans, segoe ui, helvetica neue, liberation sans, nimbus sans l, trebuchet ms, arial, sans-serif;"><span style="background-color: #fafafa; font-size: 14.994px;">Don't care for my example? Think you can load up the toad and have that free lunch? Here's what Wikipedia has to say on <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_combined_weight_rating" target="_blank">GCWR</a>.</span></span><br /><br style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;Open Sans&quot;, &quot;Segoe UI&quot;, &quot;Helvetica Neue&quot;, &quot;Liberation Sans&quot;, &quot;Nimbus Sans L&quot;, &quot;Trebuchet MS&quot;, Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;" /><span style="background-color: #fafafa; color: #444444; font-family: &quot;open sans&quot; , &quot;segoe ui&quot; , &quot;helvetica neue&quot; , &quot;liberation sans&quot; , &quot;nimbus sans l&quot; , &quot;trebuchet ms&quot; , &quot;arial&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 14.994px;">Bottom line, if your are towing much over the rated capacity of the hitch, it's a good thing to have it doubly connected to the frame. It's is important to weigh both vehicles, to monitor your transmission temperature and to not tow at higher elevations. And know that a informed buyer may see the beefed up hitch as a concern.</span><br /><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Don Malpas</span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>See also</b>&nbsp;http://www.lazydazeowners.com/index.php?topic=28840.0</span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">and</span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2011/03/strengthen-your-hitch.html</span>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-75097933247600149232016-10-18T16:54:00.000-05:002017-07-24T17:35:11.787-05:00Leaking Toilet Bowls<div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">My Approach to Leaking Toilet Bowls</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Bill Atkins posted a good article on toilet bowl leaking (<a href="http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2009/08/toilet-bowl-seal-replacement.html">http://lazydazearticles.blogspot.com/2009/08/toilet-bowl-seal-replacement.html</a>), but included dealing with problems with the flush mechanism and the base.&nbsp; This article takes on a simpler task - water leaking out of the bowl, but not onto the floor, meaning you need to replace the upper seals.&nbsp; Parts of this article are purely my own thing, and I have not found anything published to support my approach.&nbsp; They work for me, and I am sharing my process with you.&nbsp; I am not saying that I recommend that you do the same.&nbsp; I will <b>flag those parts in bold</b>, so you can decide if you want to try what I do.&nbsp; It is written with the assumption that you have never, or rarely, dealt with this.&nbsp; Maybe you are like me my first time, dreading and fearful of the task.&nbsp; I have provided as much detail as I could, to help you through a task that really is pretty simple.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Few people I have talked with do what I do.&nbsp; Most have repeat leakage without knowing why.&nbsp; It is like a good paint job - it is mostly in the surface prep.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">If water does not remain in your toilet bowl, you have a leak - somewhere.&nbsp; It can be in three and only three places.&nbsp; Let’s start by giving names to the parts for discussion.&nbsp; These may not be “by the book” names but they work for me.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The bowl - This is the toilet itself, the porcelain part with a hole in the bottom and a rim around the top.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The flush pedal - This is the pedal to the left of the bowl as you face it.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The flush nozzle - This is the connection to the back of the bowl that feeds water into the bowl’s rim to rinse the bowl.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The flush spray - This is the hand held spray used to help rinse the bowl.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The flush dome - This is the curved plastic part that closes the hole at the bottom of the bowl, and opens when you press the flush pedal down.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The upper seals - These are the two neoprene gaskets whose edges can be seen between the bowl and the flush dome.&nbsp; There are two - a thick upper seal and a thin lower seal.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The pedestal cover - This is the plastic part that splits near the axle of the flush pedal and covers the black pedestal base, the split ring and the band clamp.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The split ring or half clamp - This is a two piece ring with a V-shaped inner surface that pulls the bowl and the pedestal base together.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The band clamp - This is a clamp that, when tightened, pulls the two pieces of the split ring together, locking the bowl to the pedestal base.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The plastic pedestal base - This is the black plastic base on which the bowl sits.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">I think that covers the parts.&nbsp; Let’s talk about the possibilities for leaking.&nbsp; For water to get out of the bowl, there are only three possibilities.&nbsp; The water can seep between the bowl and the thick upper seal, eventually getting to the interior flanges that stiffen the plastic pedestal base.&nbsp; This water can be the source of odors, as there is a slight ability for air to escape past the outer edge of the plastic pedestal base.&nbsp; Water can also seep between the thick upper seal and the thin lower seal, though unlikely, again getting to the flange area in the plastic pedestal base.&nbsp; Finally, water can seep past the thin lower seal and the flush dome, dripping into the black tank.&nbsp; Just like stalactites forming in a cave, moisture containing calcium from a hard water source and urine salts from us, sitting on the dome below the seals and evaporating, leaves behind minerals.&nbsp; As the deposits grow, the seal becomes worse and worse.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Why does a leak happen?&nbsp; If you just changed the seals and it leaks, either the mating surfaces were not clean, the seals were not aligned properly, or the half clamps were not tightened sufficiently.&nbsp; If the seals have been in place for a while and they slowly begin to leak, foreign matter is compromising the seals, either between the bowl and the thick upper seal, between the two seals, or between the thin lower seal and the flush dome.&nbsp; A little chemistry - once a crystal or mineral deposit begins to form, it attracts more material to it.&nbsp; Deposits will grow, even between well-seated surfaces.&nbsp; This is what causes the seals to fail.&nbsp; There is one more possibility - the flush dome might have shifted out of alignment, preventing a seal, but that is beyond this article.&nbsp; See Bill’s article for that condition.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The most likely scenario is foreign matter accumulation.&nbsp; That can happen in several ways.&nbsp; Liquid waste contains minerals and salts.&nbsp; Crystallization and accumulation over time can cause a leak.&nbsp; When it happens, it is time to change the seals.&nbsp; That is what the remainder of this article focuses on.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Before starting, you will need new seals, white vinegar, an aluminum pan large enough for the bowl to sit in it with vinegar in the pan, dry silicone lube spray, vaseline, a garbage bag, a socket set with a 5/16” socket and an extension, a straight blade screwdriver, an old toothbrush, a scrub brush, a spray cleaner such as Fantastic or 409, Pledge spray wax or similar, lots of paper towels, and if you can find one, a bulb syringe with a small tip.&nbsp; You will want rubber or latex gloves.&nbsp; My bowl seal kit is #385311462.&nbsp; Check your toilet model to be sure you have the right seals.&nbsp; &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">First, turn off the water, and flush until there is no more water in the bowl.&nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Close windows and doors, making the RV as air tight as possible.&nbsp; Open the bathroom vent slightly and switch the fan OFF.&nbsp; Open the other vent and switch the fan to high, with the fan set so it is pulling air IN, not out.&nbsp; This will create a positive pressure in the RV so odors from the open tank are pushed down into the tank, giving you an odor-free work environment.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Remove the toilet seat and seat back.&nbsp; There are screws by the seat hinges that hold them in place.&nbsp; With a flat blade screwdriver, pop the covers up to access the screw heads and reach behind the bowl to hold the screw bases.&nbsp; Unscrew the screws, and set the pieces aside.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The pedestal cover splits at the flush mechanism at the base of the flush pedal.&nbsp; You may find you need to remove the trim on the flush pedal to do this, but I can usually get the pedestal cover off with a little fussing and wiggling.&nbsp; Pressing the lower edge of the cover at the seam behind the flush mechanism, front side right at the bottom with the screwdriver usually does it for me.&nbsp; Remove the pedestal cover and set it aside for cleaning if there is any sign of staining or dried urine.&nbsp; If you have ever had male kids visit, I can almost guarantee there will be some.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Feel the band clamp at the back of the bowl.&nbsp; There is a nut there.&nbsp; With the socket on the extension and ratchet, loosen the nut until the band clamp can be slid down off the half clamp or split ring.&nbsp; Remove both parts of the half clamp.&nbsp; As with the pedestal cover, look for staining or deposits and if present, clean before re-assembly.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The bowl is now loose, so be careful not to push it off the base or drop it.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Reach behind the bowl and feel the flush nozzle where it attaches to the bowl.&nbsp; This is a rubber or soft plastic friction connection.&nbsp; You need to remove the nozzle.&nbsp; it pulls straight out, but is not easy.&nbsp; I do it by tilting the bowl toward me to get more room, and by twisting the nozzle in a rotating fashion as I am pulling it out of the hole in which it is seated.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Put the aluminum pan in the shower.&nbsp; Lift the bowl off the base and put it in the pan.&nbsp; Be careful to have a good hold so you do not drop the bowl.&nbsp; Using a funnel, tip the bowl toward the front and pour a substantial amount of vinegar into the hole at the back where the nozzle connected.&nbsp; Your objective here is to first douse the ring area, which distributes rinse water around the bowl, with vinegar, then to have enough vinegar in the bottom of the pan so any crystallized salts on the bottom of the bowl have time to soften for removal.&nbsp; If you just pour vinegar into the pan, it will deal with the base of the bowl, but any mold in the ring will not be touched.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">OK, back to the toilet base.&nbsp; You are now looking at the two seals sitting above the flush dome.&nbsp; There is a notch in the edge of the seals.&nbsp; Note how the notch is positioned to fit on the plastic pedestal base, so the replacement seals will go in the right way.&nbsp; Remove the two seals and drop them in the trash bag.&nbsp; You are now looking at the flush dome.&nbsp; Odds are, the surface will have an accumulation of salts.&nbsp; Dribble some vinegar on the flush dome.&nbsp; Roll up some paper towels, drench them in vinegar, and form a ring on the flush dome with them to hold vinegar in contact with the salts.&nbsp; Let it sit to soften any deposits.&nbsp; Occasionally, dribble some more vinegar on the dome.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">While the vinegar is doing its job, let’s deal with the flange area in the plastic pedestal base.&nbsp; Odds are, it will have liquid partially or fully filling the spaces between the flanges.&nbsp; Remove the liquid.&nbsp; I use a bulb syringe, but it can be blotted up with paper towels and patience, by rolling the paper towels into&nbsp; a shaft and sticking the end into the flange so the liquid is soaked up. &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Clean any stuff that you set aside for cleaning.&nbsp; You CAN turn the water back on and use the shower to do this.&nbsp; Just be careful not to press down the flush pedal if you do so.&nbsp; Get those parts squeaky clean and dry.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">OK, turn the bowl upside down.&nbsp; Look at the base around the hole where the bowl will rest on the seals.&nbsp; Most likely, you will see a ring of yellowish deposits.&nbsp; Scraping with the side of the screwdriver will usually clean those deposits.&nbsp; Once the deposits are removed, feel the surface.&nbsp; If you feel ANY roughness, you need to get this smooth.&nbsp; My first time doing this was after three years of fulltiming, and there was a lot of accumulation of very hard material there.&nbsp; <b>I needed to use a file, then sandpaper, to get rid of the salt encrustation.&nbsp; (This is the first of the things that I do.&nbsp; If you try it, be very careful not to damage the porcelain, and just remove the salts.&nbsp; It took some patience that first time, but has been simple since then.)</b>&nbsp; You want to get rid of every salt or mineral present, as any remaining will attract more salts, speeding the regrowing of the crystals.&nbsp; After that first, very hard deposit, my future seal changes, done annually, do not need real aggressive cleaning.&nbsp; I scrape with the side of the screwdriver, popping the hard stuff off, then I scrub any remainder.&nbsp; An old toothbrush (not Dorothy’s, Don) with vinegar usually does the trick.&nbsp; When all salts have been removed, I add more vinegar to the inside of the rim and scrub with a scrub brush to get the underside of the rim clean.&nbsp; I then rinse the bowl thoroughly with hot water from the shower, scrub all surfaces in the bowl with a scrub brush and spray cleaner, and rinse again.&nbsp; I fold up and discard the aluminum pan, leaving the bowl upside down on a number of paper towels to protect the shower base from scratching.&nbsp; I dry the base of the bowl where it will mate with the thick upper seal.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Now it is time to clean the flush dome.&nbsp; Hopefully, vinegar and the toothbrush will be enough.&nbsp; <b>I have encountered quite hard deposits that I remove by VERY careful scraping with the side of a flat blade screwdriver, finishing with a very fine sandpaper until the flush dome is smooth and clean.&nbsp; (This is the second of the things I do that is not supported.&nbsp; If you slip and scratch the flush dome, you will have to replace it.)&nbsp; </b>The best way is to soak with vinegar to soften deposits, then scrape with a material such as wood or plastic that will not damage the flush dome, then soak and scrape again, until all deposits are gone.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b></b><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">With the spray cleaner and paper towels, clean the flush dome thoroughly and rinse, then dry it.&nbsp; Now, give it several coats of Pledge spray wax.&nbsp; Your objective is to wind up with a thoroughly smooth, clean flush dome with a waxed surface that will seal well to the thin lower seal.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>I then spray the underside of the thin lower seal with dry silicone lube (my own idea)</b> and position it on the plastic pedestal base.&nbsp; The intent of the lube is to promote smooth sliding of the flush dome against the seal.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Next, <b>I rub a very thin film of vaseline on the upper surface of the thin lower seal and the lower surface of the thick upper seal.&nbsp; I do NOT gob it on, but apply just enough to get a shiny surface.&nbsp; This promotes a very good seal between the two neoprene surfaces.&nbsp; (Again, this is my own idea, not supported.&nbsp; Vaseline, like all petroleum products, degrades neoprene rubber.&nbsp; None of the vaseline uses are necessary for re-assembly.&nbsp; My own opinion is that a thin film improves the seal and reduces water adhesion so rinsing is more thorough.)&nbsp;</b> Mate the two seals, making sure they are aligned properly.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Now it is time to place the bowl on the upper seal.&nbsp; First, turn the water off and drain the line so if you bump the flush pedal, you won’t spray the room.&nbsp; <b>(I do a thin film of vaseline on the top of the thick upper seal and on the dried bottom of the bowl where it contacts the seal.&nbsp; Again, this is my own thing, but the ONLY times I have found the flange area dry or nearly so on seal changing is when I have previously done this.&nbsp; Also, cleaning the bottom of the bowl got much easier after I began using a thin film of vaseline there.)&nbsp;</b> Place the bowl on the seals in the approximate position.&nbsp; Re-insert the nozzle in the back of the bowl, seating it fully.&nbsp; Now position the bowl carefully.&nbsp; You have it right when, if you stand over the bowl and look straight down, you see a uniform black ring from the seals in the hole.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Position the split ring half clamps in place, with the front, with the two tabs, together and the rear having a gap.&nbsp; Place the band clamp over the split ring to hold it in place.&nbsp; This may take a bit of jiggling and juggling to get the split ring and the band clamp in place.&nbsp; Take the time to get it right.&nbsp; The two parts of the split ring should be straddling the bottom of the bowl and the top of the plastic pedestal base, with the split ring joined in the front, apart at the back, and the band clamp sitting evenly in the groove on the split ring all the way around.&nbsp; <b>(Before I do this, I spray the bowl base and the inside of the split ring pieces with dry silicone lube.&nbsp; As you tighten the band clamp, the split ring will pull the pedestal base and the bowl together.&nbsp; The surfaces need to slide on the split ring for this to happen.&nbsp; I find the dry lube to help this process, but support for this cannot be found anywhere.)</b>&nbsp; Make sure the band clamp nut is at the back of the bowl, else the pedestal cover will not fit in place.&nbsp; Tighten the band clamp until the split rings are in place and the band clamp is snug but not yet tight.&nbsp; Check the alignment of the bowl again and if necessary tweak its position until it is just right.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Now it is time to tighten the band clamp.&nbsp; You need to do this carefully.&nbsp; Go too tight, and you can crack the bowl.&nbsp; Too loose, and the bowl will shift and move with use, causing leaks.&nbsp; <b>Here is how I do it.&nbsp; First, I get rid of the ratchet and use a nut driver (like a screwdriver but with an end that allows the attachment of a socket).&nbsp; If you do not have a nut driver and are using the ratchet, be gentle with that ratchet handle.&nbsp; Don’t pull too hard.&nbsp; Snug up the clamp until the resistance to tightening is building noticeably.&nbsp; Re-assemble the toilet seat and seat back.&nbsp; Check the bowl alignment.&nbsp; Now, sit on the bowl and wiggle.&nbsp; This will compress the seals and gain some slack in the band clamp.&nbsp; Again, tighten until resistance builds.&nbsp; Sit.&nbsp; Wiggle.&nbsp; Tighten.&nbsp; Repeat until you are no longer creating slack by wiggling.</b></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Finally, replace the pedestal cover.&nbsp; Hold it so the bulge is at the top and facing away from you.&nbsp; Slide it in place beginning on the right, maneuvering it around the back, over the nut, then rotating the edge forward until it seats behind the flush mechanism.&nbsp; Now rotate the other side around to meet the seam and snap the two edges in place.&nbsp; It may take a bit of wiggling of the cover to get the two edges to snap together. &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">You are done.&nbsp;</span><br /><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span> <style type="text/css">p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px 'Comic Sans MS'; -webkit-text-stroke: #000000} span.s1 {font-kerning: none} </style> <br /><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;">You may notice, however, after a few weeks of use, that the bowl wiggles a bit. &nbsp;This sometimes happens as the seals continue to compress and the split ring adjusts itself over the bowl and base. &nbsp;It that occurs, simply tighten the band clamp a bit more.</span></span></div></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">So, how much time does this take?&nbsp; Well, I am used to it.&nbsp; Aside from time soaking in vinegar and cleaning, it takes me about 15&nbsp; to 20 minutes to dis-assemble and re-assemble.&nbsp; Changing the seals regularly means I don’t need a lot of time soaking and cleaning, but my last change took about 2 hours, mostly sitting and waiting for vinegar to do its job.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><style type="text/css">p.p1 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica} p.p2 {margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 18.0px Helvetica; min-height: 22.0px} </style> <br /><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Let’s close with maintenance.&nbsp; Periodically, get all the water out of the bowl that you can, add about a half inch of white vinegar, and let it sit for a while.&nbsp; Then, press the flush pedal to open the flush dome and scrub the edges with a stiff brush, removing all the sediment you can.&nbsp; Do another vinegar soak and scrub, then a thorough rinse with the flush spray.&nbsp; I do that once a month.</span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Ken Fears - October, 2016</span></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-85465437161233662642016-10-11T20:12:00.001-05:002016-10-24T10:26:49.315-05:00Repainting Front Faux Window Panels<span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><div class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: large;">Those faux windows on the front of LD's (up until a few years ago) all seem to suffer from severe fading over time. A number of folks have re-painted the panels, but until Ron B. took the time to document his project, we didn't have any good guidance on to best accomplish this. Here is his report, along with some comments from Larry Wade.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">I recently finished re-painting my front 'windows'. Years ago I went through a sleet storm, and the front faux windows were pretty eroded. Their looks went downhill from there.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">Getting to it to mask it off was the hard part. First I cleaned it with alcohol, then gently roughed it up with Scotchbrite, then more alcohol.&nbsp; I used Home Depot Rustoleum gray primer, about one can. I decided to switch to Duplicolor high buildup primer, sanding in between each coat in an attempt to level off the surface. About&nbsp; two cans. Maybe 10 layers of primer. Then I followed with about two coats&nbsp; (1 can) of satin black primer. Light sanded 400 grit paper. I could have put some coats of Rustoleum gloss black enamel, but I had some gloss black Appliance paint. It dries to a really shiny hard coat. After I was done I asked some friends why the appliance paint said to not paint over primer and they said that the dried film was meant to be over a hard steel surface and that it would eventually crack by itself over primer. Well it hasn't cracked yet, but I have a can of black gloss enamel in case it does. I had a breeze blowing dust on the surface during painting, and some dusting in spots. (The solvent vehicle evaporates before the paint droplets hit the surface, and leave a poorly adhered 'dusty' coating. Rubbing compound, and wax cleared up that spot. A little sanding of the edge to take off the lip where the masking tape was. Good thing you can't get too close a look at it but I think it looks almost as good as new.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">RonB</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oWm-Gu1lrdc/V_2L1TurIpI/AAAAAAAAAsU/gmserseGeWctW7bjJdsDc79oi3KRVHuLACLcB/s1600/faux1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-size: large;"><img border="0" height="145" src="https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oWm-Gu1lrdc/V_2L1TurIpI/AAAAAAAAAsU/gmserseGeWctW7bjJdsDc79oi3KRVHuLACLcB/s320/faux1.jpg" width="320" /></span></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: large;">&nbsp;Masked and taped - ready for primer</span></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5rAj2w8iIoA/V_2L1JMTY5I/AAAAAAAAAsM/vNAwDgiMXXQI8KL7ss6SZ0c8EAld9_BnwCLcB/s1600/faux2.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-size: large;"><img border="0" height="189" src="https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-5rAj2w8iIoA/V_2L1JMTY5I/AAAAAAAAAsM/vNAwDgiMXXQI8KL7ss6SZ0c8EAld9_BnwCLcB/s320/faux2.jpg" width="320" /></span></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: large;">&nbsp;Final primer coat</span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HaxnJb9iaeg/V_2L1FGWo7I/AAAAAAAAAsQ/55c_AjAImCYfQImGOi1eh-I5rEfh7zJ5wCLcB/s1600/faux3.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-size: large;"><img border="0" height="213" src="https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-HaxnJb9iaeg/V_2L1FGWo7I/AAAAAAAAAsQ/55c_AjAImCYfQImGOi1eh-I5rEfh7zJ5wCLcB/s320/faux3.jpg" width="320" /></span></a></div><div style="text-align: center;"><span style="font-size: large;">&nbsp;Final coat spray black</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;">Larry's comments: Watching our 2003 LD's front 'windows', and many others, decay within years of purchase, leads me to think that the&nbsp; black paint used was just something out of a cheap rattle can, not the long lasting, two-part polyurethane paint used on the coach.</span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;">The results from repainting the the windows with anything from Home Depot or any other home center is going to decay rapidly.&nbsp;For a more durable finish, use a high quality, two-part spray paint, available through a auto paint shop or online</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">Some auto paint shops custom mix two-part paints and package it in a special spray can. </span><br /><span style="font-size: large;">This type of spray paint is known a 2K and is sold under the Spraymax brand. </span><br /><span style="font-size: large;">The can has two separate areas, one with paint, the other with the curing agent.&nbsp; A button on the bottom the can is used to pop an internal bag, releasing the curing agent. Shake the can hard for several minutes. The paint is now ready to use, having a 48 hour pot life, more than long enough for a window job.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><a class="bbc_link" href="http://www.spraymax.com/index.php?id=361&amp;L=1" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: large;">2K clear coat: Spraymax</span></a><br /><span style="font-size: large;">This is what I use for repairing small sections of damaged LD exteriors. It goes on nicely and is easy to use. To match body colors, I remove an exterior hatch cover and take it to the paint store for custom matching.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">Or you can buy two-part, gloss black from Eastwood, in a pre-mixed Spraymax can.</span><br /><a class="bbc_link" href="http://www.eastwood.com/2k-aerospray-ht-ceramic-engine-paint-gloss-black.html" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: large;">2K Aerospray HT Ceramic Engine Paint Gloss Black</span></a><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">2K paints are harmful to breath. Painting should be done outdoors, in well ventilated spaces and you MUST wear an approved respirator. For each job, I buy a new, organic solvent-rated, respirator. I find these 3M respirators to be widely available.</span><br /><a class="bbc_link" href="http://www.amazon.com/3M-07193-Paint-Spray-Resp/dp/B00079FOK0?ie=UTF8&amp;tag=scmcldo-20" target="_blank"><span style="font-size: large;">Amazon.com: 3M 07193 Paint Spray Resp. Large: Automotive</span></a><br /><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span><span style="font-size: large;">When wearing the respirator, if the respirator is properly fitted, there should be absolutely no smell of solvent. The filters have a limited life,&nbsp; keep them in the Factory sealed bag, until ready to use.</span><br /><span style="font-size: large;">Partially used respirators are handy to wear when dealing with any solvent but if there is any smell of solvent, immediately discard the respirator or change the cartridges, if the respirator has replaceable ones.</span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;">And then there is the simple approach used by JOTA:&nbsp;</span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: left;"><span style="font-size: large;">I redid mine about 5 years ago. I sanded down the panels to give a rough surface, then taped around the edge, which is a little difficult with the rounded edges. Used Rustoleum semi gloss paint, 3 coats, no primer or sealer. It still looks pretty good after 5 years. </span></div></div></div><br />WxToadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-86769977532591026112016-09-25T21:12:00.003-05:002016-11-11T08:45:13.209-06:00Hot Water Heater Intro<div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">First, thanks to all who helped put this together - John, Erik, Judy and Andy.&nbsp; They picked up a number of errors and omissions that helped me make it better. &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">This is targeted at water heaters from Atwood, used in Lazy Daze motor homes.&nbsp; It is NOT applicable to other makes of heaters.&nbsp; It is not intended to be a detailed or comprehensive guide to troubleshooting your heater.&nbsp; Rather, the intent is to allow you to become familiar enough with the electronics in the system to understand what is going on, and possibly to identify a failed component if professional help is not available.&nbsp; Other articles address flushing the heater, and I do not plan to address issues with propane delivery here.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Now the disclaimers - <b>Combining propane and electricity is dangerous.&nbsp; Do not mess with the system if you do not feel able to do so safely.&nbsp; Read your Atwood manual for more detail.&nbsp; </b>If you do not have one, you can download one from <b>http://atwoodmobile.com/manuals/waterheaters/MPD%2093756%20SP%2011.19.07.pdf</b>.&nbsp;<b> </b>Their manual has step by step instructions for troubleshooting, and it is recommended that that be your primary resource.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>Stay within your skill set.</b>&nbsp; If you are not comfortable with any of these steps, let a pro do the work.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>Do not work on the water heater when the water is hot.</b></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">You may want to take pics of everything before you start, but if you only deal with one component at a time, getting things back together is pretty simple.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">These water heaters run on 12 volts for the controls and propane for the heat.&nbsp; There are some 120v heaters out there, but this does not address them.&nbsp; They have a confusing array of wires running here and there.&nbsp; When the heater isn’t working right and you are well away from help, it can be a challenge to figure it out.&nbsp; This article is intended to give you a basic understanding of the parts, what they do, and perhaps how to check them if you are having problems.</span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y_z3PxB6UEc/V-iBtSPv-MI/AAAAAAAAIho/GB75PryNRygSgxoUYnXr7ChuGhgf6YP0gCLcB/s1600/Water%2BHeater.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><img border="0" height="424" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-y_z3PxB6UEc/V-iBtSPv-MI/AAAAAAAAIho/GB75PryNRygSgxoUYnXr7ChuGhgf6YP0gCLcB/s640/Water%2BHeater.JPG" width="640" /></span></a></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Looking at the heater, in the top right corner is the circuit board.&nbsp; It is the brains of the operation.&nbsp; It senses what is happening elsewhere in the system and does things like allow propane to flow or not, send a spark to light the propane, monitor the water temperature, and monitor the flame.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">To the left of the Board is the brass pressure relief valve.&nbsp; It has two functions.&nbsp; If there is too much pressure in the heater, such as from water that is overheated and boiling, it releases pressure rather than allowing the pressure to build and cause a steam explosion.&nbsp; It is also used to restore or maintain a pocket of air at the top of the heater chamber which cushions the chamber and your plumbing from overpressure as water heats and expands.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Left of the pressure relief valve is the exhaust vent.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Below the pressure relief valve are two thermostats and a device (thermal cutoff) in a clear plastic tube.&nbsp; The left thermostat, covered by black foam tape, is labeled ECO (Emergency Cutoff).&nbsp; It shuts down the system if heater temperatures are too high.&nbsp; It is normally in the closed position, conducting electricity through it, but if it senses temperatures that are too high it will open, cutting off flow of propane.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The right thermostat is the one the system uses to control the water temperature.&nbsp; When the water is cold, this thermostat is closed, conducting 12 volts through it, and current can flow to the system.&nbsp; When the water reaches the designated temperature the thermostat opens, cutting off the electricity, and the system cuts off the flow of propane.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Floating about in front of the thermostats is a little electrical part encased in a clear plastic tube.&nbsp; This is a thermal cutoff.&nbsp; If there is too much heat in the area behind the thermostats, perhaps from a blocked flue or exhaust vent, a propane leak or some such, this part melts, cutting off power to the system. &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Andy Baird’s “Eureka” talks about the thermal cutoff.&nbsp; He said, ”<i>Like a fuse, the thermal cut-off is a one-shot device... so if it blows, it must&nbsp;be replaced. This is where it gets interesting. A Google product search on&nbsp;'atwood thermal cut-off' turned up prices ranging from $16.00 to nearly&nbsp;$23.00. I knew that a simple part like this couldn’t possibly cost that much—somebody, probably Atwood, was tacking on huge markups. But I was able to locate the part in the Newark Electronics catalog for&nbsp;just $2.16—a far cry from the RV dealers’ pricing! Here’s a&nbsp;link to the item.</i></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"><i></i></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b><i>http://www.newark.com/nte-electronics/nte8096/fuse-thermal-98-c-15a-277v/dp/55R1324?ost=nte8096&amp;selectedCategoryId=&amp;categoryNameResp=All%2BCategories&amp;searchView=table&amp;iscrfnonsku=false</i></b></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"><i></i></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><i>For the record, it's an NTE Electronics #NTE8096 thermal fuse, designed to&nbsp;carry 15A and cut off at 98 degrees Celsius. It's not something you can find&nbsp;in a local Radio Shack store, so I carry a few spares with me just in case.&nbsp;You might want to do likewise.</i></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"><i></i></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><i>To be fair, Atwood’s $20.00 replacement part includes two thermal fuses&nbsp;(worth four bucks), some plastic sleeving, and a couple of 3/16" crimp-on&nbsp;lugs (worth a buck, maybe)—but I'm sure most of us can scrounge those&nbsp;items for a lot less than Atwood is charging!”</i></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Below the thermostat and ECO is the propane solenoid valve.&nbsp; To the right is the mix tube or burner, which mixes air with the propane and turns and directs the air and propane mixture into the burn chamber.&nbsp; In front of the mix tube outlet, at the entrance to the burn chamber, is a pair of contacts from a white ceramic ignitor, which acts like a spark plug.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Finally, above and left of the solenoid valve is a plug which allows draining of the heater for maintenance such as flushing or storage.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">OK, here we go.&nbsp; When you switch the heater on and the water in the heater is cold, 12 volts should go first to the thermal cutoff, then to the thermostat, then to the circuit board. &nbsp;What you see on the panel depends on how old your panel is. &nbsp;</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;">On newer panels, the switch operates a green light to show the switch is on, and the board operates a red light, indicating that the startup sequence has begun.</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;">&nbsp; </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;">Proper startup is signaled by a red and a green light by the switch over the stove.</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;">&nbsp; </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;">On older panels, there is a single red light, controlled by the board, that comes on with the heater startup sequence.</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica;">&nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">When the board receives a 12 volt signal, it accepts that as meaning that the thermal cutoff and the thermostat are closed.&nbsp; Then the board thinks it is safe to begin lighting the burner to heat water.&nbsp; It signals with a red light by the switch, and begins the startup procedure, sending voltage through the ECO to the solenoid.&nbsp; If the ECO is closed, that voltage reaches the solenoid, and the solenoid allows the flow of propane.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The board now sends a high voltage pulse to the ignitor.&nbsp; Between pulses it measures the resistance across the ignitor’s 1/8” gap.&nbsp; That resistance tells the board whether there is a flame or not.&nbsp; It should try three times to light the burner.&nbsp; If no flame is sensed, it will shut down the propane and cease further attempts.&nbsp; If a flame is sensed, the lights by the switch go to green and it continues the burn until the thermostat opens, at which time it cuts off the flame.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">So - what can go wrong?&nbsp; Let’s assume here that you do not have dead batteries, and that you have ample propane.&nbsp; What next?</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;">First, there are a lot of spade connectors in the system.&nbsp; They are subject to corrosion.&nbsp; If they become corroded, the board will not get good information and the heater will not work right.&nbsp; So, start by making sure all the connections are clean and free of corrosion.&nbsp; Connectors can be cleaned with contact cleaner, with a fine abrasive such as a coarse eraser or fine sandpaper, or by other similar means.&nbsp; When cleaning the contacts on the board, be gentle.&nbsp; That material is thin.&nbsp; You do NOT want to abrade it away.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;"><span class="s1">Next, if you have a multimeter, you can check the <b>thermal cutoff</b>, the <b>thermostat</b> and the <b>ECO</b> for an open circuit </span><span class="s2"><span style="color: black;">or even better, for voltage. &nbsp;</span></span></span><span class="s3" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">All should read closed or very low resistance.&nbsp; If any read open, you found the problem.&nbsp;&nbsp;</span><br /><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">If anything - corroded contacts on the board or in the heater wiring, a bad switch, a bad wire coming in (rare, but possible), a bad thermal cutoff, or an open thermostat - interrupts the current, the board will not get 12 volts, and you may see a green light by the switch on a newer panel, but not a red light. &nbsp;On an older panel you will see no light. &nbsp;So, if you see no red light when you turn the switch on, and you have a voltmeter, start off by measuring the voltage anywhere in that chain from <b>entry wire</b> to <b>thermal cutoff</b> to <b>thermostat</b> to <b>board connector.</b>&nbsp; If you do not have 12 volts all the way along, the component “upstream” of the check point at which you do not get 12 volts is the failed component.&nbsp; </span><span class="s3" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Replace the part. &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p4"><span style="color: black; font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;"><span class="s3"><br /></span></span><span style="color: black; font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;"><span class="s3">If you do not have a multimeter, and you have a helper, you can test </span><span class="s1">the thermal cutoff and the thermostat and the ECO</span><span class="s3"> by bypassing each of these items, one at a time, by unplugging the spade connectors from the device and connecting the two wire ends together.&nbsp; <b>WARNING - DO NOT USE BYPASSING TO OPERATE THE HEATER</b>, just to troubleshoot it.&nbsp; The recommended way is to have a helper inside, with the switch off.&nbsp; Make the bypass connection and have the helper turn the switch on.&nbsp; If the heater lights, you found the problem.&nbsp; Turn the switch off immediately (you disconnected a safety device) and reconnect the failed device until you can get a replacement.&nbsp; Do the thermal cutoff first, then the thermostat, then the ECO.</span></span></div><div class="p4"><span class="s3"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: small;"><br /></span></span></div></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The Atwood manual gives places where voltage can be checked with a multimeter.&nbsp; You could have a working ECO, but corroded contacts, leading to low voltage at the solenoid.&nbsp; If you have a multimeter, do those voltage tests.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">OK, you checked and the thermal cutoff, thermostat and ECO and all are showing closed or good, but you have no flame.&nbsp; The voltage at the solenoid is good.&nbsp; Is the solenoid operating?&nbsp; You may be able to hear gas flow if it is.&nbsp; My hearing is not good enough for that, but yours might be.&nbsp; Make sure the mix tube is clear of debris, spider webs, etc., then try again.&nbsp; If the tube is removed to clean, it should be put back in same location and make sure the flame is adjusted to provide the most efficient air gas mixture.&nbsp; The color of the flame is the indication of this by seeing a good blue flame with a tinge of yellow on the flame tip. Too much air will be noticeable by a louder burn and yellow flame. This adjustment is done by loosening the screw at the beginning of the tube and making the air gap there larger or smaller, then tightening the screw.&nbsp; This setting should not be done at higher elevations.&nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">At this point, some guesswork is involved.&nbsp; If you see no spark at the ignitor electrode tip, then either the ignitor or the board is bad.&nbsp; If you see a spark but no flame, you may not be getting adequate propane flow, indicating a problem with the solenoid, you may not be getting air mixed with propane, or the spark may be weak or in the wrong place.&nbsp; If you see a flame that burns briefly before going out, either the ignitor or the board is probably bad, but a blocked mix tube or propane orifice could be to blame. &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Let’s look at the ignitor.&nbsp; You should hear a tic - tic - tic sound as the ignitor shoots a spark across that 1/8” gap, and unless you are in bright sunlight you should be able to see the blue spark.&nbsp; You might even see a jet of flame come on, burn briefly, then go out.&nbsp; Remember, the ignitor does more than just throw a spark.&nbsp; It also tells the board when a flame is present.&nbsp; A dirty ignitor, corroded electrodes or a crack in the ceramic can result in improper resistance, shutting down the gas flow.&nbsp; The ignitor can be removed fairly easily.&nbsp; The Atwood manual says, “The gap between the sparking probe and the ground probe should be 1/8”. The probes should be clean and free of cracks, flaking and corrosion. Position the probes so that they are in the path of the gas flow. Cracks in the ceramic insulator can also be the source of an intermittent problem. To check for cracks insert a fiber washer or any other type of insulation material in the 1/8” gap between the rods. Remove the gas valve from the circuit and turn the unit on. If you see a spark jumping from the ceramic to the ground rod or bracket, replace the spark probe.” &nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">If you service the ignitor electrodes, after cleaning the igniter rods the gap adjustment should be made with two pairs of pliers, one to hold the straight rod right above the ceramic to not put undue stress on it while bending the curved rod with the other pair.&nbsp; If you have gotten the ceramic wet, it is somewhat porous and may take a while to dry completely.&nbsp; Rain won’t do it, but direct water spray, such as your hand slipping when flushing the heater can do it.&nbsp; Guess how I know that…&nbsp; Until it is dry, it may send a bad resistance reading to the board, preventing the heater from working.&nbsp; A day of dry conditions should deal with a moisture problem.&nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">OK, the thermal cutoff is good, the thermostat and ECO are good, and you see nothing wrong with the ignitor, but you still have no hot water.&nbsp; The remaining problems are gas flow and a bad board.&nbsp; A board is not cheap, but can be replaced fairly easily.&nbsp; <b>It is NOT RECOMMENDED that you mess with the solenoid or the propane orifice.</b>&nbsp; There is simply too much risk if you mess something up. If you are confident that propane is flowing, but you have no flame, your problem is pretty much narrowed down to the ignitor or the board.&nbsp; The ignitor is cheap.&nbsp; Replace it.&nbsp; Still no good?&nbsp; Now, finally, it is time to try replacing the board.&nbsp;</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Hopefully, this will help you understand the heater’s steps and may give you a clue what to look for if you are having problems.&nbsp; Again, <b>stay within your skill set</b> on this.&nbsp; With some understanding and a sense of how the parts work together, you may be able to figure it out.&nbsp; If not, get thee to a qualified service person.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Ken Fears - September 2016</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">As Editor I can not resist adding a few very minor points to this fine article.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Note the nylon drain plug in the picture, a suggested improvement. One way to easily remove the drain plug is with a socket wrench with an extender and a swivel. That allows you to get around the gas plumbing.</span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Also note the position of their air/fuel “mixer tube”. It's all the way to the left. That position may yield the bluest flame. You need to know this if you disassemble the tube for cleaning. That needs to be done every few months of use. A few minutes with a wire brush and WD40 will clean it up.</span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">I have my spare thermal fuses in a ziplock bag taped to the inside of the heater cover, so I can find them if I ever need one.</span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1" style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">The adjustable thermostat allows you to lower the temperature to the level you find most useful. Some set it so that no cold water needs to be mixed. We keep ours at 120. I think the factory setting is about 140. How do you know what the temp is? You add an aquarium thermometer to the tank. &nbsp;I guess we need to add a How To for that Andy B improvement. Nothing to it, just place the temp prob under the tank insulation and run the wire to the display.</span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span><br /><div class="p2"><br /></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-59856233658180573362016-06-03T08:56:00.000-05:002016-06-03T08:56:16.690-05:00Getting AC from an inverter to the rear of a MB<div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Most of our stuff is powered from 12volt, so we don’t have much need for 120.</span></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Things like computers and MiFi are the exception. We use these almost exclusively in the rear of our MB. So that’s where we wanted 120volt. We asked for an outlet there when the rig was built and were turned down.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">What follows is a how to specific for MB’s. I have no idea how or if it could be implemented on any other floor plan.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">So for both of the people that 1) Have an MB, 2) Want a 120 volts in the rear and 3) Are willing to take on a fairly simple DIY project 4) You do not make the beds into a King - read on.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">I mounted the inverter on the wall behind the drivers seat. That was unused space and it is close to the batteries. I used a cheap 1000w inverter from Harbor Freight. It has the same case as the one used by a well known brand and may have the same internals. A hole was drilled through the wall panel behind the drivers seat and another into the battery compartment to run #2 wire to the batteries. I sealed the latter one. The former can not be seen.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">I cut an extension cord using the male end to plug into the inverter and ran the cable through the same hole in the panel used for the cables to the batteries. Remove the interior panels in the cabinet under the refer. [Mark each panel so you will know how to put them back. They are not cut square] Make a connection from the extension cord to #14 standard house wire. You want to use this as the stiffness will make it easy to snake the wire to the back of the rig. Do observe correct polarity.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Snake the #14 back over the fresh water tank. There is a small opening in the “wall” to the bath. Use a small child for this. Remove the panel behind the toilet that covers the plumbing and snake the wire through there and through the panel wall behind the shower. Attach the female end of the extension cord you cut and secure it with P clamps to the forward end of bed platform and terminate it adjacent to the factory 120volt outlet in the “hall”.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Step Two.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Mount a power strip in the middle of the rear wall near the top of the carpet. [No holes to show] Run the cable from the power strip under the driver’s side bed to where the wire from the inverter terminates.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">When boon docking you plug the cable from the power strip into the wire from the inverter. When on shore power you plug the wire from the power strip into the factory outlet.</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p1"><span class="s1"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Pretty simple actually.&nbsp;</span></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><div class="p2"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><span class="s1"></span><br /></span></div><br /><div class="p2"><span class="s1"></span><br /></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-39965681273115700612016-04-30T09:49:00.000-05:002016-04-30T09:49:15.910-05:00CPAP Amp UsageThis post is about conserving DC when using a CPAP while boon-docking.<br /><br />Any device can be powered from an inverter. But, inverting/converting is not without some loss. Call it a toll fee. Now consider a CPAP that runs on DC voltage, requires a “brick”, that rectangular object on a power cord, to convert AC to DC. In the &nbsp;RV environment this means inverting the batteries DC power to AC and then the brick converting back to DC. Two toll fees. Both unnecessary, since my CPAP requires DC and the coach batteries have want it needs.<br /><br />My CPAP unit, a Dreamstation by Respironics, is native 12 volt, that’s why I selected it. It comes with a 120 volt power cord and a brick that converts to 12 volt DC. Normally I would have made up a 12 volt cord for it, but I had to buy a power cord from Respironics, since I could not find a source for the odd size 9mm plug it uses. I now own an $18 length of wire with a cigarette lighter plug on one end and the 9mm plug for the CPAP on the other end.<br /><br />I did not want to install a female “cigarette plug” over my bed as the Mothership does and have the wire hanging down. So I tapped into the 12 volt house system in the raceway above my bed. [MB] I drilled a hole in the bin floor behind the cornice and dropped the power cord down and then across the bed platform so that it’s totally concealed. The machine lives on a table between the beds.<br /><br />I went to this trouble to minimize amp usage. Powering it from inverter used 3 amps. Now, usage is 1.7 amps. [That’s without the humidifier which I am yet to use] &nbsp;That’s about 13.5 amps used during 8 hours. I can live with that. 24 amps was a concern for me.<br /><br />I suggest that anyone concerned about battery use when boon-docking and that has a CPAP that is 12 volt powered to make or buy a cord to power it direct from the house batteries and save those toll fees.Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-73723687389993506042016-04-04T08:40:00.001-05:002016-04-04T08:40:48.888-05:00Replacing The Toilet Wash Out HoseThis is for the die hard DIY group.<br /><br />I have just completed a chore I have been putting off for over a year - replacing the toilet wash out. The squirter mechanism was on it’s last leg, sometimes hanging up and not turning off the water. The cheap plastic OEM squirter was one piece with the hose, so both had the replaced.<br /><br />If your bowl seal shows signs of wear, you may as well order the grossly over-priced bowl seal and replace both at the same time.<br /><br />First, turn off the water.<br /><br />To remove the hose from the supply line, you first have to remove the bowl. That’s fun. On our 2007 Sealand, there is a skirt that has to be removed and also a plastic cover over the foot flush pedal. Then you will see a metal clamp below the bowl that goes all the way around the bowl. The nut to loosen the clamp is in the back - so inconvenient. Loosen the clamp until the plastic parts it is seated on can be removed. Note well the orientation of these parts. They have to go back on the same way.<br /><br />Raise the bowl straight up so as not to move the bowl seal. Set the bowl aside and note well, the orientation of the bowl seal. Especially the hole in the seal.<br /><br />Loosen the clamp on the wash hose supply line and remove it. Assemble the new parts and put a little Vaseline on the new supply hose, push it on and secure it.<br /><br />Now the fun part comes - getting the bowl secured. If you have never done it, I just can not tell you how much fun it will be in the confined quarters. Ensure the seal is in the correct position and put the bowl back down without disturbing the position of the seal. Tighten the clamp around the bowl with a nut driver hand tight. Do not use a wrench, as you may crack the plastic parts under the clamp. Know also that it needs to be tight enough so that it does not come apart when you sit on it. This is real important.<br /><br />Run the water for a few minutes and check for leaks. If none found, replace the skirt and have an adult beverage.Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-65862934285095263652016-02-23T15:34:00.000-06:002016-02-23T15:44:40.246-06:00Water Purification With Chlorine Dioxide<span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>Step 1</b></span></span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">We use bleach to disinfectant the system after the rig has been sitting for awhile. Add one cup of bleach, fill the tank all the way, let it sit for awhile, drain, fill and drain.&nbsp;</span></span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">If you want to disinfect the lines OK by running the bleach water through the lines, but be sure to run fresh water through all the lines and dump the water in the hot water heater. Bleach is no friend of rubber gaskets. And does not taste good either.</span></span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><b>Step 2&nbsp;</b></span></span><br /><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></span><span style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">Now add chlorine dioxide and fill the tank. Add another table spoon every time you refill.</span></span><br /><div id="yui_3_15_0_1_1456262924512_1131" style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">It's safe, you are already ingesting it as it's the most commonly used chemical to disinfectant, for instance, food prep counters and it's used in city water systems.</span></div><div id="yui_3_15_0_1_1456262924512_1127" style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><br /></span></div><div id="yui_3_15_0_1_1456262924512_1126" style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;">We always run out of the tank. We <u>never</u> hook up to city water. That keeps the tanks filled with clean water.</span></div><div id="yui_3_15_0_1_1456262924512_1125" style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><a href="http://billydump.com/3r/3rhome.htm" target="_blank"><br /></a></span></div><div id="yui_3_15_0_1_1456262924512_1110" style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><span style="font-family: &quot;verdana&quot; , sans-serif;"><a href="http://billydump.com/3r/3rhome.htm" target="_blank">Here is a source for the brand name Purogene</a> which is nothing more than 2% Chlorine Dioxide.</span></div><div id="yui_3_15_0_1_1456262924512_1134" style="background-color: white; color: #3f3f3f; line-height: 16.25px; margin: 0px; padding: 0px;"><br /></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-84588574153019615292016-02-18T09:49:00.000-06:002016-02-18T09:49:31.171-06:00Drop TableWho says something as simple as the drop-down table cannot become a problem? Got some rambunctious grand-kids that travel with you? Among the havoc they might be able to cause are bent brackets for the table hinges.<br /><br /><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FRtd8piDVeI/VsXm79VXOVI/AAAAAAAAApM/fkrvbwj8eoA/s1600/table_hinge_bracket-1.jpg" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" src="https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FRtd8piDVeI/VsXm79VXOVI/AAAAAAAAApM/fkrvbwj8eoA/s1600/table_hinge_bracket-1.jpg" /></a></div><br />Well, fear not - here is where you can find replacements:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.dyersonline.com/ap-products-table-hinge-bracket-table-plate.html">http://www.dyersonline.com/ap-products-table-hinge-bracket-table-plate.html</a> <br /><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div>The price is $5.99 for two (2) plus shipping.<br /><br />Contributed by: Ed of Dallas<br /><br />Posted: 18 Feb 201 <br />WxToadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-37450867188650037732016-02-11T12:11:00.002-06:002016-02-11T12:30:55.931-06:00Fuel Pump Problem....or Not? 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<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 5"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="46" Name="List Table 1 Light Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="47" Name="List Table 2 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="48" Name="List Table 3 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="49" Name="List Table 4 Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="50" Name="List Table 5 Dark Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="51" Name="List Table 6 Colorful Accent 6"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="52" Name="List Table 7 Colorful Accent 6"/> </w:LatentStyles></xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]><style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style><![endif]--> <br /><div class="MsoPlainText">When an engine quits running, it is common for folks to suspect a fuel pump problem. After all, enough LD'ers have had that experience. </div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText">But....while a noisy pump often indicates a problem it doesn't necessarily mean you have found the problem. There are other parts that would can cause the engine to stop running that are also heat sensitive, failing only when hot and working again, once cooled. The two most likely items of a ignition system of older LD's are the ignition coil and ignition module. </div><div class="MsoPlainText">Heat related failures are very hard to troubleshoot, you need to be able to quickly check for spark, fuel pressure and pulsed power to the injectors, at the time of failure. Without actually checking it when it will not start, it's an educated guess.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">Back in the good old days where a lot of parts needed frequent replacement.I carried a spare coil, ignition module and a full tune up kit.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText"></div><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span>Now to help troubleshoot problem with the LD, I carry a fuel pressure gauge, a wireless spark detector and fuel injector noid lights (used to check the fuel injector circuits). <br /><div class="MsoPlainText">Many times a faulty part will set a Check Engine light (CEL).<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">&nbsp; </span>An inexpensive code reader, one capable of erasing codes, is very helpful to have. You need to have a list of what the codes mean or an internet connection to check online.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"> </span>I have found a lot of ScanGauges and UltraGauges that will not erase Check Engine codes, where a code reader will. </div><div class="MsoPlainText">Add to the box a 12-volt test light and a decent multimeter, the type with a clamp-on amp meter is useful for a whole range of troubleshooting.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">With these basic tools and proper knowledge you have a good chance of finding what part of the equation is missing.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">Working with engines, gasoline and electrical can be dangerous so if you do not have the proper training or experience, let a pro do it or find a good teacher. It's cheaper than going to the hospital.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span>Think your fuel pump isn't working or it suddenly stops, the fuel pressure gauge can let you know if it is providing adequate pressure, which need to be within a few PSI of the set point. </div><div class="MsoPlainText">The pump does not require that the engine is running to be tested, only the ignition needs to be turned on. </div><div class="MsoPlainText">When attaching the gauge, have the ignition switched off. Hold a rag around the connection point to capture any gas that may still be under pressure and spray out. Safety glasses are a must. </div><div class="MsoPlainText">Please stay safe or find an experienced mechanic. Try this at home so you know how it's done before needing to use it on the road. Also find the specified fuel pressure for your engine's fuel pump.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">Besides helping to find a defective pump, the fuel pressure gauge can also help find leaking injectors and check valves.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><a href="http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-92699.html">http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-92699.html</a>http://www.harborfreight.com/fuel-injection-pump-tester-92699.html</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span>Many newer engine have the coils mounted right on top of the spark plugs, also known as COP, coil on plug. This arrangement makes it impossible to use a conventional inline spark tester. <br /><div class="MsoPlainText">The LD's V-10 has COPs that cover most of the access to the spark plug. They do have slots where the thin tip of a wireless spark detector can be fitted.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">I use one of these. It's sensitivity is adjustable, a handy feature as every engine seems to have a different physical layout requiring more or less sensitivity.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">With someone cranking the engine, check for spark at one or more plugs. </div><div class="MsoPlainText">Practice at home so you have a good idea where the best spots are to test for spark and how to adjust the sensitivity. Actually, the V-10 is hard to access when checking for a heat related failures, because of the difficulty of removing the doghouse quickly, needed to access the rear eight plugs. It you look and tie things back, you can access the front two plugs and injectors from under the hood.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">&nbsp; </span>Coils do fail, so carrying a spare is't a bad idea. A bad coil will usually set a specified code for the cylinder.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">&nbsp;</span><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFHMPC?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFHMPC?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00</a><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFHMPC?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFHMPC?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00</a></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span>If spark and fuel pressure are present, then test the fuel injector circuits for pulsed signals. Use the proper size "noid" light for your injector's plug. Noids are are small lights, that plug into fuel injector plugs, once uncoupled from the injector.<span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">&nbsp; </span>They test the fuel injector circuits for pulsed signals, when the engine is cranked or running. They are useful for finding a dead ignition system, a failed injector or a failed injector circuit.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">My fleet contains four different sized fuel injectors plugs so it was cheaper to buy the big set and keep the extras for the future.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;">&nbsp;</span><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YF6TN8?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YF6TN8?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage</a><a href="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YF6TN8?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage">http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000YF6TN8?psc=1&amp;redirect=true&amp;ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage</a></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span>If the engine is running but is either making noises or missing, an inexpensive mechanic's stethoscope can be invaluable. You can listen to individual fuel injectors, Comparing them each other. A dead or stuck injector usually makes a much different noise. You can isolate noisy bearings and eliminate changing the wrong part. Be extremely careful to stay far away from the moving belt and pulleys, they remove fingers quickly.</div><div class="MsoPlainText">Even good parts can make strange noises, it's good to know what "normal" sounds like.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><a href="http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-640582-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B004KEHGZY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1455164440&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=mechanic+stethoscope">http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-640582-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B004KEHGZY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1455164440&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=mechanic+stethoscope</a>http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-640582-Mechanics-Stethoscope/dp/B004KEHGZY/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&amp;ie=UTF8&amp;qid=1455164440&amp;sr=1-1&amp;keywords=mechanic+stethoscope</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText"></div><div class="MsoPlainText"><span style="mso-spacerun: yes;"></span>For all the test tools above, the internet has hundreds of sites and videos that explain how the various tools and systems being inspected work. Above all, work safely.</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText">Contributor: Larry Wade</div><div class="MsoPlainText"><br /></div><div class="MsoPlainText">Published: 11 Feb 2016 </div><span style="font-family: &quot;calibri&quot; , sans-serif; font-size: 11.0pt;"></span> <br /><div class="MsoNormal"><br /></div>WxToadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2924469109710971048.post-29497784986930792422016-01-17T12:44:00.001-06:002016-01-17T12:44:19.999-06:00ARP Refrigerator Boiler Temperature Controller<div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">I recently installed a gadget that will shut off the&nbsp;refrigerator&nbsp;if&nbsp;the boiler temp exceeds a threshold&nbsp;temperature. Our original refer "bled out" in less than two years and was replaced under warranty. The literature of the vendor, ARP, convinced me that spending $135 was worth it to prevent another failure. I am not a&nbsp;metallurgist, so I can not confirm the vendor's claims, but they seem reasonable to me.&nbsp;Specifically, that metal&nbsp;fatigue&nbsp;is&nbsp;cumulative. Overheat metal enough times and it will&nbsp;fail. Parking unlevel with the refer on will cause the boiler temp to rise. Do it enough times or leave it unlevel long enough and the tube holding the ammonia will crack open.</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">We park level for the night, but we are guilty of <i>letting it go</i> when parked for lunch or stopping by a friends house for just a short while. Yes, could shut off the refer, but the simple fact is, we forget. If your memory is better than ours, you can save your money and read no further.</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">[BTW, if your refer "bleds out" you do not need to replace the whole refer, just the working part of it. The part outside. The part that costs one-half of a new refer. The part that does not require removing a window to install it.]&nbsp;</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">The device vendor is ARP. The web site is&nbsp;<a href="http://www.arprv.com/">http://www.arprv.com/</a>&nbsp;Since I had already installed two cooling fans OUTSIDE, I bought the plain Jane model. If you do not already have outside cooling fans and you camp in warm areas, such as the desert SW, you should consider getting the device with fans. On reflection, I should have tossed my existing fans and bought the <i>full boat</i> ARP device with fans and let the device cut the fans off and on as needed.</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">If you want to install the device inside, also order the&nbsp;additional&nbsp;cost longer wiring. I had enough wire on hand to do the&nbsp;job. The gadget will work fine installed outside in the refer service compartment, but I could not resist having another digital device inside. [As one of the more knowledgable contributors to things Lazy Daze said, You are more anal than I am]</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Installation - The manual is written by an engineer. Unless you read <i>engineer</i>, you may be mystified. It is made even more nebulous as it covers all Dometic and Norcold refers at the same time. I got lucky and found one drawing that closely resembled the wiring we had. With a VOM, I was able to make a educated guess of how it must work. I then called the vendor and he confirmed my suspicions.</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">In the photo below, there is a thermal shut off device on the boiler housing at the right of the picture. This is the Dometic device that is supposed to shut the refer off if the temp exceeds whatever temp the device is set for. [Note, that it will not shut off if the temp approaches, but does not exceed the&nbsp;threshold&nbsp;multiple times]</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-91LoteF87Hk/VpvPNHOob5I/AAAAAAAAH_c/eG-RRfn3mpM/s1600/arp1.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="240" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-91LoteF87Hk/VpvPNHOob5I/AAAAAAAAH_c/eG-RRfn3mpM/s320/arp1.JPG" width="320" /></a></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">I found that this wire comes from the control box, carries 12 volts and returns there. This is what needs to power the ARP device. All that needed to be done was to enlarge the loop placing the ARP device in the loop. So to the device inside, I ran two wires one to carry and one return 12 volts. I also ran a ground wire as I could not figure where I might find ground inside the cabinet above the stove. [This is a MB]</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">Installing the temp sensor required removing the housing shown in the picture above. Then parting the fiberglass so you can clip the sensor to the boiler tube. This requires small hands, as the LD compartment is not really tall enough to make it easy. Be sure to put on thin gloves or spend the rest of the day picking FG out of your hands.</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">How to run the wires. It ain't fun. Mike Sylvester installed our solar panels and ran wiring from the battery compartment, below the refer access compartment on an MB and up the refer cooling tower to the roof and then through the front wall of the cabinet above the stove and then down to the charger. I used the same path. Mike had left a pull cord anchored to the refer vent on the roof. That helped.&nbsp;</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">[You probably don't already have this pathway, so just drill a small exploratory hole from inside the cabinet, at the top, forward into the cooling tower]</span><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">&nbsp;</span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div class="separator" style="clear: both; text-align: center;"><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tvnNaN6jHTE/VpvTDYrWQaI/AAAAAAAAH_o/FoFtmReUc2Y/s1600/arp2.JPG" imageanchor="1" style="margin-left: 1em; margin-right: 1em;"><img border="0" height="300" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-tvnNaN6jHTE/VpvTDYrWQaI/AAAAAAAAH_o/FoFtmReUc2Y/s400/arp2.JPG" width="400" /></a></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;"><br /></span></div><div style="text-align: justify;"><span style="font-family: Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: large;">I elected to hide the device inside the bin as it was&nbsp;slightly&nbsp;larger than the&nbsp;space about the refrigerator which would have been ideal location. Here it is showing the boiler temp. Ours high reading is 190.</span></div>Delta Mikehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04848262518783626997noreply@blogger.com