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I do think you raise some valid points Gnasher but for me the most important thing is to save lives and beat the virus. Once it has peaked and cases are decreasing and everyone is wearing masks it will be safer to go outside, that's my view.

Surely if the numbers reduce and people go outside again, the numbers will go up again?

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Latest graph stats for people interested. I’d recommend following the fella on twitter who posts them as well.

"US deaths doubling every 3 days". US deaths also represent a 1.6% fatality rate of those explicitly tested positive. That fatality rate assumes everyone with corona in the US has tested positive. They won't (i.e. asymptomatic carriers - the majority aged under age 40). Assumes everyone who has died with Corona infection would have lived for a prolongued period anyway. They wouldn't. Assumes China numbers were accurate. They won't have been.

Meanwhile Imperial College (who have been a key source on worst + best case estimates over the past months) today estimated UK Corona-deaths will be less than those from seasonal flu. There's a time to be negative and a time to be positive.

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"US deaths doubling every 3 days". US deaths also represent a 1.6% fatality rate of those explicitly tested positive. That fatality rate assumes everyone with corona in the US has tested positive. They won't (i.e. asymptomatic carriers - the majority aged under age 40). Assumes everyone who has died with Corona infection would have lived for a prolongued period anyway. They wouldn't. Assumes China numbers were accurate. They won't have been.

Meanwhile Imperial College (who have been a key source on worst + best case estimates over the past months) today estimated UK Corona-deaths will be less than those from seasonal flu. There's a time to be negative and a time to be positive.

And even if the death rate ends up being low we can clearly see that medical staff around the world are having massive problems with this. Adding a new virus like this on top of what medical staff already had to deal with isn't something that they're able to cope with properly. But that's of no concern to right wingers. They just want their saviours to come out of this looking good (their leaders and/or the holy economy.) They don't give a fuck about hospitals being overrun or all of the deaths that could be prevented. Instead they make out like the holy economy has to be saved because more deaths could result from that if it isn't immediately back up and running.

Even though the central banks could just type more numbers into accounts to help anybody instead of bailing out the rich, and throwing a few morsels out to the poor to keep most of them alive so they can slave away for the economy again when it's back up and running.

And even if this whole thing has been a big conspiracy to say, transfer wealth to the rich in one of the most psychopathic events in the history of humanity and/or some other insane reason(s), medical staff around the world still can't cope with these massive influxes, people at risk of dying don't deserve to be exposed to it, and there's still no vaccine. Holding out for another month or two in the hope that we can get this under control is still the best thing to do.

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@Red Phoenix- its a long post so I won't quote it, but your link is to BuzzFeedNews. Do you know what you get if you type BuzzFeedNews into google? The screenshot attached. The article has no named-sources in hospitals. Its important to refer to facts at times like this, or at least to try and look closely at information sources.

I don't think this is a conspiracy. This is putting huge burden on hospital services - clearly. I also think the ramifications go far beyond the immediate view - and it warrants a complex discussion. By and large, this event has actually spoken very well of humanity - the majority of communities have really pulled together, social-contributions have gone way up & people the world-round are abiding by the guidance of their governments.

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@Red Phoenix- its a long post so I won't quote it, but your link is to BuzzFeedNews. Do you know what you get if you type BuzzFeedNews into google? The screenshot attached. The article has no named-sources. Its important to refer to facts at times like this, or at least to try and look closely at information sources.

I don't think this is a conspiracy. This is putting huge burden on hospital services - clearly. I also think the ramifications go far beyond the immediate view - and it warrants a complex discussion.

I think Buzzfeed is shit, but get the feeling that this isn't all just made up fictional medical characters. The US has fucked up almost everything so far so I think a lot of deaths won't have been reported either. And I really doubt that buzzfeed will be the only ones to have reported on this subject by the time we're done dealing with this virus.

The conspiracy thing was what I added in at the end and not meant to refer to anything you said. The point was that no matter what the situation is with this virus we still have these problems : medical staff can't deal with this big influx on top of what they already had, people don't deserve to be exposed to and then left to die to this, and we still have no vaccine. So a lot of things might not turn out to be as bad as we first thought, like the death rate for example, but I don't think there's much of a reason to be positive about what's happening either.

Our governments could've avoided so much of this turning out like this (China included) but of course they haven't so we have to deal with it for the time being.

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@Red Phoenix- its a long post so I won't quote it, but your link is to BuzzFeedNews. Do you know what you get if you type BuzzFeedNews into google? The screenshot attached. The article has no named-sources in hospitals. Its important to refer to facts at times like this, or at least to try and look closely at information sources.

I don't think this is a conspiracy. This is putting huge burden on hospital services - clearly. I also think the ramifications go far beyond the immediate view - and it warrants a complex discussion. By and large, this event has actually spoken very well of humanity - the majority of communities have really pulled together, social-contributions have gone way up & people the world-round are abiding by the guidance of their governments.

This from WaPo backs up part of what they said in the Buzzfeed article too (I thought Buzzfeed had linked to this at first but can't find it there now after going back to check) :

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Because testing was slow to begin in the United States, health officials agree that the number of confirmed cases is much lower than the actual number of people who have the disease, and even the count of deaths is probably low because of differences in reporting by overwhelmed local jurisdictions.

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Erm, not trying to downplay the seriousness of the situation but lets keep a bit of perspective, the worst affected country in the world Italy has seen approx 10 thousand deaths, a large percentage had underlying health problems. The war in Yemen has seen approx 85 thousand children under the age of 5 die of starvation in the past 3 years.

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People will be at home for most of April, then probably again next winter for another month.

If we are making randomn predictions can I have a go?

Poor and disadvantaged people in this country are probably the people who will pick up the tab for fighting this virus. A perfect excuse for massive sovial cuts and job losses plus more draconian police and state power and the erosion of human rights.

People staying "in next winter for a month" as you casually describe it will in my opinion be irrelevant has there will be little in British life to leave the house for if you are indeed allowed.

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I’ve been going out every other day for a 20/30 minute walk round my local streets. It’s not that pretty but I feel better for the exercise and fresh air.
I’d be very upset if I lived a 5 minute walk from a beach and got shouted at for walking along there! However I bet many of those beaches are not that busy in March usually. Ridiculous pictures last weekend of crowds by the sea but some perspective is needed, I read somewhere that someone walked 10 minutes to their local seafront and turned around again as it was crowded when they got there.

Poor and disadvantaged people in this country are probably the people who will pick up the tab for fighting this virus. A perfect excuse for massive sovial cuts and job losses plus more draconian police and state power and the erosion of human rights.

People staying "in next winter for a month" as you casually describe it will in my opinion be irrelevant has there will be little in British life to leave the house for if you are indeed allowed.

You did predict Brexit would be the beginning of the demise of the Tory party, so forgive me for taking your predictions with a bucket full of salt.

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I’ve been going out every other day for a 20/30 minute walk round my local streets. It’s not that pretty but I feel better for the exercise and fresh air.
I’d be very upset if I lived a 5 minute walk from a beach and got shouted at for walking along there! However I bet many of those beaches are not that busy in March usually. Ridiculous pictures last weekend of crowds by the sea but some perspective is needed, I read somewhere that someone walked 10 minutes to their local seafront and turned around again as it was crowded when they got there.

Yeah live by seaside . Last weekend beaches were packed this weekend very few I would say just locals. Just like everywhere there are knobs about make you think wtf. Was in supermarket everything marked out buying milk at checkout heard someone with bad cough looked around and some knob standing a foot behind me plenty of space to keep away just an arsehole. Said my bit but thought wtf cretin. By the look on his face He probably thought the markings on the floor were rumble strips designed to keep him awake whilst doing weekly shop.

On an aside I trying to avoid supermarkets now local shop is well stocked with what I need and they seem to be making a effort with elderly . That minus the madness of queues has made me realise I will pay an extra 10p a litre for milk there .

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You did predict Brexit would be the beginning of the demise of the Tory party, so forgive me for taking your predictions with a bucket full of salt.

Whoa whoa whoa. Most of my predictions were proved correct Not least hpe our of touch this forum was compared to the rest of the country. The Tories lost 2 prime minister's and a former prime minister over Brexit, it was saved by the pro European right wingers in the labour party plus the bbc who both brutally destroyed the reputation of the leader of the opposition whilst giving the government a free pass, an example is the Corbyn interview with Andrew Neil, the only time Johnson was challenged was when a local Nottingham journalist broke through the lines and asked a few relevant questions about the nhs (kid lying on the floor)and surprise surprise the prime minister was fucked.

The lib dems with the help of Tom Watson (seen his fawning tweet wishing the pm well?) forced the election instead of letting the tories implode, a hung parliament was on the cards. The bogus anti semitism guff engineered by the labour friends of Israel didnt help.

Corbyn had imo a balanced view on the pros and cons of the eu but didnt stand a chance. I make no apologies whatsoever for being against the European capitalist cunts club who once again during this crisis has proven itself to be little more than fucking useless.

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This makes sense.
I'm sure an organisation like FIFA will see the value in waving goodbye to over a billion quid so that the AFCON and a few leagues can have plenty of time to finish their seasons without having to overwork the players.
After all, for FIFA, it's really always been about player welfare over money.

Jürgen Klopp has struck a realistic tone when discussing the likelihood of big money transfers arriving at Liverpool this summer.

The fan reaction to the Reds deciding to pass on Timo Werner has been mixed with the club owners coming in for some criticism especially as he seemed to be a player that Klopp was reportedly very keen on.

But on the other side of the coin, there were some astute voices casting doubt on whether the striker was all that keen on the move, especially as he was far from guaranteed to be a consistent starter, and indeed if would be a good fit for the side.

Klopp spoke yesterday to Sky Germany (via The Mirror) regarding Werner and another player who has been linked in exciting midfielder Kai Havertz.

And he said in the current climate, all best laid plans are out of the window.

“There are a lot of good players on this planet.

“Timo Werner is a great player, Kai Havertz is a great player.

“Right time, opportunity - everything has to come together. Six, seven weeks ago, we didn't know if we could play again this year.

“If we hadn't played the second half of the season, we would have thought, 'OK, when can you really play football again?' And now it starts right away.

“We act as if everything is already settled. It's not settled.

“We use this little loophole we've been left to play football again Everything else we have to see the moment it happens.

“We can't pretend now that everything's going to be fine in the future.

“Discussing with the players about things like salary waivers and on the other hand buying a player for £50-60m, we have to explain."

Klopp raised a valid point when mentioning that Football clubs have a lot more to weigh up other than just comings and goings in the transfer window at this point of time.

"There are all sorts of rumours in England about who Manchester United are going to pick, Chelsea are going to pick.

"It's rather quiet here (at Liverpool) at the moment, I think it's safe to say.

“If you want to take it seriously and run a normal business and depend on income and have no idea how much you will earn... especially because we don't know when we can start playing with spectators again.

"At the moment, all clubs are losing money. Without spectators, we have to pay back the season tickets and probably sell none next year.

“At least maybe without the first 10 or 15 games. The VIP areas won't be packed and the tickets won't be sold. This will have an impact on other partners and things will look a bit different.

Going by what the manager said, it seems like the dream of seeing the likes of Kylian Mbappe, Jadon Sancho, or Adama Traore wearing the Red of Liverpool may be on hold for the time being.

On a more positive note, Klopp signalled the chance for fans to salute their heroes in grand style even if it has to be sometime during next season.

“There comes a day when life will get back to normal.
“When someone has found the vaccine, when someone has found a solution to the problem, when infection rates are zero or below - that day will come eventually. Then we have the right to celebrate what we want to celebrate on that day.

"If this is the 12th or 13th matchday of next season and we want to celebrate it - who is going to stop it?

“Then we still have the trophy and then we can drive it around town and stand on the bus. If other people then think that we are completely crazy, I honestly don't care.”

“Can it then still be a special celebration? No question. It's different, but different is sometimes absolutely OK."

As well as the global pandemic, the world has been unified by the tragic death of George Floyd under the watch of members of the Minneapolis Police force.

People taking to streets has become the norm and Footballers have also been at the forefront making their views known on the matter including the Reds squad who "took a knee" at training last week.

Klopp was extremely proud of the stance they took.

“It's so natural for us that we didn't even think about sending a message at first.

"Because it's completely normal, nobody realised that we would have to say it again. But then the boys noticed it. Then they spontaneously decided to do it.

"I have been very proud of the boys for a long time, but this was another extraordinary moment. When I saw them there and this photo was taken, I was really proud, because it is also an important message.