About the author

Frank Parlato

34 Comments

I doubt the collateral was requested under the terms at the top of this story. It was probably more along the lines of being loyal, peer pressure (everyone else is doing it), etc. This negates the remainder of the story.

DON’T DO IT SCOTT! I’ve heard changing your birthday to 2007 triggers some malicious software on certain accounts.
As soon as I read Bubba’s post, I knew it was either a hoax, or Bangcock’s Dad was toting his garden hose and coming back for seconds.

Cults or high control groups – and similarly exploitative individual situations – typically involve dynamics akin to the boiling frog in a pot of water analogy. People aren’t at first asked to jump into an abnormal situation, but instead are presented with something that initially appears more or less normal and reasonable, and that only slowly becomes more pathological and even abusive.

As I understand it, women in DOS were first encouraged to give relatively tame “collateral” as a sign of loyalty, the sort of thing that could seem reasonable, and isn’t totally outside what is now the fairly common practice of sending nude photos to lovers. Only further in did it start to become more sinister, and involve demands for more damning material once the group had initial leverage; it was not up front “Give me naked pictures to blackmail you with, if you ever try to leave” the way the apologist “Guest” tries to portray it.

I agree with what you say, Scott. I just want to add that these women didn’t know that collateral would not be asked for just one time. Collateral was demanded on a monthly basis. Even if you want to say the first time was voluntary, after that if became extortionate.

“the way you are raised today”? I thought that the “good old days” argument was that children used to be brought up to obey – and grew up to be adults who knew their place, and didn’t question authority, including particularly women who obeyed their men.

50 years ago, abusive orphanages were still in operation, not just the infamous church-run ones in Canada and Ireland, but ones in the US that exploited and abused orphans (who, in the supposed “good old days,” were often just kids dropped off by parents who couldn’t afford one more mouth to feed) including using them for farm work.

Barely a century ago, children were put to work in factories, who would now be considered too young to consent. Women were expected to obey their men, physical abuse of them was considered to be a marital prerogative and even cases of violence ending in their death were frequently dismissed, they remained in some ways legally controlled by their fathers and husbands, and couldn’t vote.

Two centuries ago, children could be sold into indentured servitude, and adults were allowed to make similar contracts that are now considered to be too exploitative and abusive for anyone to consent to. Women were in many ways effectively property, similar to chattel slaves (if they weren’t actually enslaved), and in many jurisdictions couldn’t hold property in their own names even if single.

In almost all the above historic situations, some sort of twisted argument could be made that individuals could have walked, or run, away if they had wanted (even slaves might make it to Canada). Clearly, it’s more complex than that.

Our society, continuing to evolve away from primitive norms, just has yet to really even fully come to terms with issues of consent and control.

The issue here with cults or high control groups is undue influence, which our society and legal systems have yet to really figure out how to deal with – except when it comes to the very young and the very old, who we have come to recognize us exploitable and unable to truly consent. There is, however, some understanding, for instance, of Stockholm Syndrome, which was effectively taken into account in the famous Patty Hearst kidnapping and bank robbery case – involving the Symbionese Liberation Army, which could aptly be described as in many ways a high control group or cult with some fundamental dynamics similar to NXIVM, including a leader who treated the women in the group as his harem, and an ends-justify-the-means philosophy.

There are all sorts of specific points that can – and probably will be – argued here, but I think the most obvious thing to point out is that the comparison to sex trafficking is a false one, and one that only makes the point of similarity: even in sex trafficking, the victims aren’t actually held in chains, and theoretically could just walk out the door, or ask a client to use their call phone to call the police. They are, instead, manipulated with false promises, and trapped by various sorts of coercion including threats to family, and in many cases “collateral” such as debts (NXIVM, in a way, combined the use of both of those).

DOS thus actually operated in many cases very much like the sex trafficking that we recognize as effectively non-consensual. And we also have yet to hear the testimony of those most victimized, about what their experience was like, and just how means of coercion were implemented.

Well, there was a woman kept captive for a staggering, as per your word choice, amount of time. Women were also held down while being branded.. There are 2 strikes against your argument already. Let us also not forget the manipulation, and how heavily the tactics of nxivm weighed on these women One could certainly see how a simple “walk out” approach may not have really seemed like a viable option. These cults don’t prey on strong, independent, free thinking individuals with a concrete sense of self. Wouldn’t exactly get a great recruit haul from those kinds of people now, would they? As an outsider it is easy to take a cold, callous view on these things Nobody who wasn’t there can really know what was going through the heads of these women, and it’s easy to look at all the information handed to you on your screen and draw your opinion But the women who were there didn’t have all the facts

Every new sexual act requires new consent.
There is no such thing as an eternal vow that requires a person to have sex.
Even a husband can be prosecuted for raping his wife or vice versa.

Marital rape in United States law, also known as spousal rape, is non-consensual sex in which the perpetrator is the victim’s spouse. It is a form of partner rape, of domestic violence, and of sexual abuse.
Today, marital rape is illegal in all 50 US states.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape_(United_States_law)

Any consent obtained by force fraud, coercion, threats, intoxication, blackmail or violence is NULL AND VOID.

This person forgets that organizations like NXIVM that hide cults rely on a slow process that builds a dependency over many years. The phrase “boiling the frog” comes to mind.

No smart stranger with underhanded motives who expects a positive result for himself when it comes to changing your behavior is going to tell you right away to do something that conflicts with your current set of values. They’re going to slowly change your mind and take away those values from you over a long period, e.g., several months or years. This is how legitimate psychiatric methods such as CBT work. But it is also how brainwashing works.

The people who run groups like NXIVM are going to try to to build a dependency between you and what they offer. They’re going to try to strengthen the relationships you have with others in the group at the expense of others who are outside of it and who may not agree with it. They’re going to try and burn into you the invalid belief that are no ultimate victims so that you can’t blame them for being fooled because you made a choice to go along with it. Sound familiar? The fact is, anytime you trust someone you’re opening yourself up to being fooled by them, and thus becoming a victim of them, because you can’t read the mind of someone, nor control or predict another’s behavior nor the future. There are also many other factors outside of your own control that don’t have anything to do with your choices that can make you a victim, e.g., you choosing to drive your car to work using the same path you always use only to be sideswiped by someone who wasn’t obeying the traffic laws.

They’re going to use all the standard processes of destructive cults.

Does it work on all people? No. Does it have to in order to be effective? No.

And it reminds me, I think it is important to keep in mind that the people at the top of the pyramid, so to speak, were trained in and adept at hypnosis and NLP, which can both be very powerful techniques for manipulating people, if not even controlling susceptible individuals. The leaders of high control groups or cults typically seem to have a background in some form of hypnosis, or be the sort of people to whom such techniques come naturally, and to use suggestive or hypnotic techniques and practices. This is another complex issue that our society, and legal and justice systems, have yet to really come to terms with.

I discovered that one of the people who Nancy Salzman studied NLP with, even co-authored a book titled Overcoming Resistance to Persuasion with Neuro-Linguistic Programming – that certainly sounds as if it has sinister implications for those trained in the practice, using its techniques to manipulate people into accepting things they would not have otherwise.

Hi Frank Sorry if you’ve answered this already, but when you were living with Keith, did you meet Allison? If so, what did you think about her? Catherine Oxenberg doesn’t have very flattering things to say about her, but I assume Allison was already guzzling the koolaid by the time Oxenberg met her, but you would have been working with her to publicize the cult back when she had only been involved for a year or so.

I met her. Allison did not live in Albany at the time. She was nice and evidently just enamored with the cult teachings, and not with Raniere romantically. He didn’t seem to notice her much. He seemed more interested in Kristin Kreuk. But it was Nancy who seemed to have the closer relationship with Kreuk and Mack. If Keith was having a sexual affair with Kreuk, I did not know about it.

“He seemed more interested in Kristin Kreuk. But it was Nancy who seemed to have the closer relationship with Kreuk and Mack. If Keith was having a sexual affair with Kreuk, I did not know about it.”

Omar Rosales said Kristin Kreuk looked up to Nancy Salzman. Kreuk also performed a NXIVM play for Salzman at her birthday.

Frank, do you know when Allison Mack started getting sexually involved with the pedophile Keith Raniere? I remember on John Tigue’s Saratoga In Decline blog, he revealed Mack had bought a house on the same street as Raniere. He revealed the address and the price spent. I can’t remember the date but was this before or after Raniere and Mack started fucking? I also remember him writing about seeing Raniere and Mack walking together and possibly Mack trying to keep him out of view(?)

Also, what do you mean Raniere was more interested in Kristin Kreuk? In what ways? Do you think it is likely that Kreuk did engage in some form of sexual/romantic actions with Raniere? It is most probable Raniere tried and had his female pimps encourage Kreuk to spend alone time with him. Kissing, blowjob, sex?

The alias “Pea Onyu” claims Raniere “ravished” Kreuk. Another poster a while ago said that Kreuk had some “weird experiences” with Raniere. Someone also claimed Sarah Edmondson was involved with Raniere sexually/romantically.

Then of course, the women being french kissed by Raniere like it was a handshake.

What do you think Frank, do you think Kreuk did in fact do anything with Raniere like that?