I didn't think you'd make these kind of cheap attacks. Perhaps you are loosing this argument

I will tell you why, again, this last entry of yours is totally irrelevant to this topic AND un-justified because of what seems to be a BLIND rejection of the system of monarchy - and I will keep it short.

You presumed that by giving my OPINION on the purpose of this IRI COMMENTARY, I was calling for everyone to boycott watching it! which is as far from the truth as possible! If I don't want someone to watch something I will explicitly tell them so - as would be in my nature to do.

X-man! I watch Islamist videos just to try and understand their twisted mentality! I read bullshiite by Dr Yazdi who has Iranian blood on his hands but who the west portray as a democracy activist! I even sometime take time and listen to Ali Geda preach to the sheep (I don't understand most of what he says though as most of it is in ARABIC!)!

I've watched hundreds of these kind of IRI COMMENTARIES by shameful liberal western journalist like TED KOPPEL to see how they try and DECEIVE their public AND to see how the peepole they interview like EBTEKIR and YAZDI the BUTCHER try to put on a liberal-friendly face! You mis-underestimated me X-man! I'm disappointed. I thought you knew me better.

With that said can I use the same reasoning and say that all Republicans such as yourself come to hasty conclusions - like you did with my intent or with your insistence that Monarchy has no future in Iran! I won't take the freedom to do so because it's wrong.

I've seen hundreds of these kind of IRI COMMENTARIES Mr X! I've come to know the content of them! And thus I feel that I can state my opinion them. In this case I watched 30min of preview material (which is basically clips taken from the full IRI COMMENTARY) from this documentary just to get my suspicions CONFIRMED. They are overwhelmingly biased but as you said they might include one or two ordinary people who speak of daily problems like unemployment and drug-addiction! The only DECENT DOCUMENTARY that i've seen in the past few years and which I can mention on top of my head was by JANE KOKAN - a canadian investigative journalist who infiltrated the country UNDER-COVER ( ) covering everything from the murder of Zahra/Zeeba Kazemi and the student opposition movement! This was a no bullshiite documentary with raw facts and truths by Mrs Kokan!

Now having said that, your former post was a desperate attempt to connect it with the Monarchy vs Republic argument!

As for the restoration of the Pahlavi Dynasty or election of a NEW Dynasty which I see as highly unlikely, I will address it at a later time due to time limitations. For now the most likely scenario is the restoration of the Pahlavi Dynasty through a national referendum which we have discussed on numerous occasions on this forum.

Dr X, Monarchy is here to stay. Monarchy is here to stay today and into the future - but only if it adapts to the times. The Swedish, Japanese, Dutch, and Spanish monarchy is here to stay because they have proven that they can adapt to the times and serve their nations better. The Iranian Monarchy was in the process of adapting - the rest is history.

The benefits and negatives of each system have been addressed in this thread and hopefully we will continue to stick to that topic rather than trying to deviate from it or bringing in material which does not belong here.

Nice try Dr X! Nice try. But it won't work in here as long as i'm here

Now i need to go back to my studies!

FOCUS X! Focus on the topic. Fooooocuuuuuuuuus

(Monarchy argument seems to be winning with all these deviations by Republicans!)

Sincerely,
Your MONARCHIST friend,

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

Back then, when I was an itsy bitsy potato such as yourself, I would hand Kos O She’r to Aryamanesh (same as you do to me), and I thought that I am debating with the Master and bringing in “Revolutionary Ideas”! In my mind, I was really inputting bright ideas, until Aryamanesh would look into my eyes, like Einstein would look into Qolam-Ali’s eyes (Negah-e Aqel andar Safih) and without even saying a word, he would speak a thousand words with only looking @ me! Of course I would have gotten the message!

Isn’t it amazing how history repeats itself? Now, you assume (making an Ass of U + Me) that you are the Big Shot College Student in Land O Vikings, releasing Rhetorics of the Philosophical kind! However, they could be all Kos O She’r (Kos Fel Al She’r)! And of course, I am looking @ you now! Can you see me through the web cam giving you the dirty look, which means a 1000 words? There you go Fellow!

The same amount of time that you put into defending a “Dead Ideology”, you need to put taking a few courses on “Web Design” and “HTML” and “Internet” and “Netwroking” in college, so you will have the proper knowledge of developing yourself as the future Admin of this club and the future Web Master of the IPC Website.

You got detailed oriented vision. You are an obsessive-compulsive perfectionist like myself. Also, I can trust you. Hell I even like you, and that is rare because I hate humanity and I love plants!

IPC must last a thousand years and this is not a “If” or a “But”, this is a fact. Soon or late we will be gone (Cat, Cam, Admzad, myself, ………..) and there will be your generation. Your generation must run IPC of the future. So get ready, both “Technically” and “Educationally” to run this Virtual Empire which I am building for your generation to continue and to carry the torch.

The Cause will be left to yous to continue.

I see potential in you and I believe you are way ahead of your generation. I see you may have a bright future but you must be shaped and molded in to the proper frame and mindset.

Instead of handing me “Kos O She’r” (Juvenile Monarchist Style), learn everything which I am telling you and take notes. Are you bloody taking notes or not? I can see you boy?

Take notes and get ready to take on responsibility. What did CR told you?

To gain Information about Operations comes with accepting Responsibility.

So, educate yourself in college and go as far as you can, because I am prejudiced against “Superficial, Stupid Uneducated “ people (like your Hee Row Reza Pahlavi). So:

Educate Yourself in college
Educate yourself on Iranian History, Culture, Affairs and Politics
Educate yourself on Computer Science
Educate yourself on Taking Responsibility (unlike average Iranians)
Educate yourself to accept “Change” rather than sticking with Status Q or Past!

BTW, have you decided on major? What is your major now?

And I want you to get a Ph.D. (a real one, not the kind that Iranians buy off the Internet)!
These days any Gusaleh puts a title of Doctor and Engineer before his first name and assumes that he can sell this façade to all the Iranian Community (because by average they are sheep). But suddenly, someone like myself, comes along and crashes this so called Doctor Engineer’s world via an Atomic Bomb! Someone like me comes along and Frags him hard up the Shiiter, such as I have done it before, over and over to all of these Fake Iranian Doctors and Engineers.

What’s the moral of the story: Get Real and Be Real and Self Educate yourself apart from your academic education.

Are you taking notes? Don’t snooze around boy, pay attention, I am not talking to the wall, you know?

I am not a Republican. I am a “Nationalist”. If you read Founder’s Profile on the website, It says: I put Nationalism above Republican and Monarchy. I believe Republic is a more logical, more up-to-date and more scientific form of government than Monarchy; however, my political ideology is “Nationalism”. So basically I am neither a Republican nor a Monarchist, yet I am a Nationalist.

What does Nationalism mean?

Nationalism in comparison with Republican and Monarchy:

A Monarchist’s priority is to establish a monarchy in Iran.
A Republican’s priority is to establish a republic in Iran.
But
A Nationalist’s priority is primarily to establish a Nationalist Government in Iran, everything else is secondary. If the future Iranian Regime will not be a Nationalist Regime, then I could care less if it is a monarchy or a Republic! The hell with Monarchy or Republic both! The legitimate regime of the Iran of future must be primarily a “Nationalist Regime”.

So as you see, I basically do not give a Flying Fandango about Shahs or Presidents. I am a solid Nationalist. I believe in a Nationalist System of Government as the priority.

You see,

Monarchists are holding on tight to Reza Pahlavi’s balls and keep them warm so they won’t catch cold!

Republicans are holding on tight to the Doctrine of The Republic and make sure a True Republic will be in charge of the government.

I, Ahreeman am a Solid Nationalist. My priority is to establish a “Nationalist” Regime in Iran. Personally I believe both Republicans and Monarchists are lacking and they are stuck in details rather than Whole (The Major Issue). In other words, I am way above and beyond Republicans and Monarchists both!

I hate to state this about fellow Republicans and Monarchists of the opposition, but I sincerely believe that:

“Both Monarchists and Republicans are at the primary step of the political Evolution; however, I have Evolved beyond that step!”

I have no fanaticism (Ta’asob) about Monarchy or Republic, the hell with both. My priority is Iran and that’s all.

What have I told you before?

“I am pointing at the Moon, yet many are only capable to see only the tip of my finger, and they fail to see where I am pointing!”

Once again, the two of you are at it. What’s the matter, I can’t leave you two kids alone for one minute without you jumping at each others’ throats? Don’t make me stop the car and come back there. I swear to God, I’ll stop the car right now and come back there!

I’m only kidding. I actually enjoy watching you two quarrel. I didn’t mean to intrude, but I just couldn’t help myself. So I’ll put in a couple of words, Amir style.

The most important reason I jumped in was to say how much I laughed at “Gharach Ghorouch” and “Boksovat,” because I hadn’t heard those terms since I left Iran 3 decades ago. Ha Ha! I miss those terms. I guess I don’t hang around people with the old lingo any more. I must remedy that.

Regarding the Kopel documentary…

In regard to Kopel’s documentary, you are both correct in certain aspects. For sure, all information must be processed and is important, even if it comes from the foe.

That this information comes from the foe, however, cannot be disputed. I watched the whole thing, and shook my head at the picture that was painted that was contrary to reality. There was a focus on a film-maker’s self proclaimed freedom of artistic expression, claiming that he is left alone even though he criticizes the government. That, without mention of the tens of thousands of political prisoners that are currently in prison and the tens of thousands that have already been executed paints a false picture of freedom in Iran. A freedom that we all know does not really exist.

The documentary was filled with half-truths and was guilty of overwhelming lies of omission. Then again, should we expect any less? Consider the fact that this program was made with the complete supervision and approval of the regime. It is only a logical conclusion that the product would only portray what the regime wants it to portray, and no more. The only way to get a truthful documentary in Iran under the current regime would be to do it ghachaghi. Anything official, and certainly coming from a world famous journalist will be simply regime propaganda.

Ahreeman is correct that judgement usually ought to be reserved until the product is viewed. That is not always the case though. Knowing the circumstances also allows one to reach logical conclusions with a certain degree of certainty about the product even before viewing it. Either way, the judgement of this program is the same, whether rendered prior to viewing it or after. The whole thing was supervised by the crap wielding Mullahs. Crap goes in…crap comes out.

Now, on to the Monarchy issue…

L-jan, Ahreeman’s questions on how a monarchy ought to be brought to assent (force vs. elections) is what one would call a “burn.” Buuuuuuuuuurn. He burned you crisp, my young Lion-Hearted Liberator. Hey, that’s a cool name for you. Liberator the Lion-Heart. It’s reminiscent of Richard the Lion-Heart, who like you crusaded against the Moslems. He was also a king – and you love kings. Furthermore, I’m sure there’s a way to connect the whole Shiro-Khorshid thing in there too, to give a Persian connection.

With that name digression behind us, I’ll get back to Ahreeman’s questions. I smiled when I read them, because it was a moment of brilliance. I recognize brilliance when I see it. His argument is air-tight, and you can’t touch it (“Cant Touch This”…he just did an MC Hammer dance, with the baggy pants and all, in a circle around you).

I’m sorry, Lion-Heart, but as an impartial observer I had to inform you that you have been check-mated. I admire your spirit and your patriotism, but as a friend I advise you to just walk away from this one. The jig is up, the debate is lost, the kingdom crumbled. Nothing you say now will salvage the argument.

I must say, that although I have no problem with a constitutional monarchy serving as a figurehead without real authority, the benefit I see from it is also minimal. The only benefit is that it might serve as a unifying force for a nation. That is to say that a nation is full of folks that cannot see past their own noses to realize that the nation of Iran is great for its own sake, not for the sake of a monarch. For us to cater to some of the people by providing them a monarch is the same as enabling a handicap. If they can’t be proud of only their nation, and need a figurehead to make them proud, then the problem lies with them. Effort must be placed in rehabilitating these emotionally handicapped citizens, not in creating an illusion for them. And if not the reason that I just gave for having a monarchy, what other possible reason does the institution of monarchy serve?

Monarchy has become like a security blanket for those that advocate it. They look to the past, and are unwilling to let the blanket go. They fear the future. I understand their reluctance, and I also understand their patriotism, and I generally have no problem with monarchists. Of all the different opposition groups, I identify with them more than others. But they do have an emotional baggage, of not letting go when it’s time to let go.

They can’t let go, just like 90% of people can’t let go of their concept of God. God to the theists is a security blanket. They have a problem letting go, because they can’t appreciate life and the world for itself and itself alone. As soon as the middle-man is removed, they lose sight of their goals, their reason for living, their own importance, and their own strength. They need a middle-man. Those who want a king also want a middle-man.

That has been a weakness of Iranians from as far back as Iran itself. They looked to their king as their start all and end all. In battle, if the king fled or died, all hope was lost and the entire army fled in rout. Iranians have been famous for this flaw, and foreigners in ancient times looked to exploit it.

Let it go, Lion-Heart, let it go. I’ll buy you a whole new blanket, that’s fuzzy, clean, and smells spring-fresh like Downey. That blanket is called Iran, and no man, no form of government, no constitution, no one person, no party, no group of people, no book, no commodity, no God or Gods comes before it or after it. If one needs to have a blanket, then one ought to use that one. It never gets old, and never needs to be replaced. Everything else will come and go, but Iran is the only constant.

Sorry about the interruption. God knows I love to watch you two bicker. If you are smart, Lion-Heart, you’ll take my advice and walk away. But I didn’t name you Lion-Heart for nothing. Knowing you, you will not walk away. So please, do the entertaining thing and by all means continue. Like I said, I love to watch…

I am Dariush the Great King, King of Kings, King of countries containing all kinds of men, King in this great earth far and wide, son of Hystaspes, an Achaemenian, a Persian, son of a Persian, an Aryan, having Aryan lineage

L-jan, Ahreeman’s questions on how a monarchy ought to be brought to assent (force vs. elections) is what one would call a “burn.” Buuuuuuuuuurn. He burned you crisp, my young Lion-Hearted Liberator.

Dear Good-Fellow Amir,

I don't see where the "burn" was??? We've discussed the topic of a "referendum" numerous time in the past on this board in which the restoration of the Pahlavi Dynasty plays an important role. Ultimately the people will decide- but to do so they need to know the benfits and dis-advantages of each system.

As I said before I see it as highly unlikely for any new dynasties to emerge unless "Anjomane Padeshahi Iran" have a darn good action-plan for that one or if a new dynasty arises from amidst the people like Reza Shah.

For now, the Pahlavi Dynasty is the only represented candidate for the ancient Iranian Monarchy. The legal heir of the Peacock Throne, Crown Prince Reza Pahlavi represents this institution and has never relinquished the duties passed on to him after his father, Shahanshah Aryamehr's, death.

As for benefits Amir-jaan, you should look into this thread as I know i've addressed many points in which the system of monarchy outdoes the republic - especially in an ancient country like Iran's case. I've even included a well-presented argument for Monarchy in Iran's by a fellow (distant?) relative of Dr X himself! namely Manochehr Eskandari-Qajar.
Unfortunately though this thread has lost focus and needs to return to its purpose which was to argue the benefits and dis-advantages of each political system.

Ba Sepaas

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

Haji, you can take time till Hell Freezes over to answer me on the issue of Monarchial Referendum and election, but still this whole deal will be flawed and illogical!

Baba jan, let’s be fair, you guys (say half a million Monarchists max), Monarchists want to convince the masses of Iran that for Iran to survive and see salvation, we need to bring on the Monarchy back to Iran. OK fine, I am with you until now.

Now, how will you go about it? First of all, you tell me that you will throw a referendum and in this referendum masses of Iran will have 2 choices:

1) A Republic
Or
2) A Constitutional Monarchy with Pahalvi as The Dynasty and with Reza Pahlavi as the Monarch

So if people choose the Republic, then @ least they will have a choice to elect the president amongst many candidates and parties.

But

If they choose the Monarchy, they are stuck with Pahlavi Dynasty and The Geisha (Gay Shah) aka Reza de nim Pahlavi.

Why on Earth would Iranians vote for Monarchy? To give a job to this bum? To pay his salary? What the hell has he done for Iran during the last 28 years? You must take Iranians as idiots, no?

Now, what is your alternative choice?

Your alternative choice as a Monarchist Theoretician is to hold a “Monarchial Election” before the Referendums, so people can choose the Dynasty of Rule and the future Shah.

In this referendum, Iranians will see All Dynasties and from each Dynasty, All candidates and then in primary monarchial election, people will first vote for a Dynasty. In secondary monarchial election, people will vote for the Shah.

OK @ this point, you will have a dynasty and a shah nominated for the referendum.

Now, even now, Iran would not be ready to conduct a referendum! Because we still do not know if this Shah and Dynasty is going to be a forever Shah or not?!

What are you going to do? Hold Monarchial elections every 4 years or everytime you get a faggot useless cheeseball like Reza Pahlavi in office, you will call an election?

But this is not even my problem with this whole show! My problem is this:

Condition one:So you are going to convince Iranians to hold a Monarchial Election to chose the dynasty and Shah and then hold the referendums?

Then they would tell you, why not just hold presidential elections?

Condition two:You will conduct a referendum without a pre monarchial election and right away you put forward for Iranians a choice between Reza Pahlavi or a Republic?

Then Iranians will laugh @ your face! Are you really so much out of touch with Iran and Iranians (of today) that you assume 70 million Iranians or @ least 20 million voters will choose Reza Pahlavi over a Republic?!

LLH, my friend, do you see how flawed, how silly, how cheesy and how cartoonish is this whole claim of Monarchists to hold Referendums and Elections? It is a joke!

I tell you what will happen,

Let’s say by a fat chance you get your way to hold your referendum. Mullahs will step aside and say:

LLH, please hold referendums.

Do you even believe that all the monarchists will choose Reza Pahlavi over the Free Republic?

I tell you what will happen:

3000 Monarchists including that Kos Khol Fouladvand and that Kos Mashang Pirouznia and of course Reza Pahlavi will vote for Reza Pahlavi to become the GeiSha!

The rest of Iran will laugh @ your faces!

Do you really think 70 million Iranians after 28 years of Theocratic Oppression, will vote for Reza Pahlavi to become Shah?!

You see my friend,
Iranian Monarchs claim or reclaim their crown and thrown,
But The GeiSha (RP) holds referendums and elections and begs people to vote for him!
I don’t know to cry or laugh?

I can put forward 10 candidates from 10 prominent dynasties and families of Iran, much more qualified, educated and with a resume of 30 years of hard work in the real business world to enter this referendum as presidential candidates opposing Reza Pahlavi.

Then people will have a choice between 10 solid economists, politicians, philosophers and technocrats on one side and Qod Qod Mirza de Chubbiness RP on the other side! Who do you think people of Iran will vote for? Monarchy or Republic?

I can even nominate Lori Foruzandeh as the future Monarch and I give her an honorary membership to Qajar Dynasty and an honorary title of “Lori-ol Saltaneh Qajar” and enter her in the race for Monarchial Election, before referendums!

I will put my genius campaigning skills and my fortune behind her. With my brains and Lori’s sex appeal. Tell me, what person in his right mind in Iran would vote for Reza Pahlavi if they can have a Foxy Lori as the Empress!?

If an average Iranian knows that once he votes for Monarchy, he will get stuck with a monarch for rest of his life, then do you think they will vote for an Ugly Transvestite with an Extra Large big nose, no education, no work history, no skills, no job, no life (only two flawed and cheesy books written by others) as a Shah? Or do you think people will vote for a voluptuous big boobed beefy thighed white American woman who speaks better persian, is more educated, has long resume of jobs, better social skills and better PR than de Nim Pahlavi?

Will they vote for:

Shirazi Lori?
Or
Kuni Pahlavi?

Hey, if the monarch is just a ceremonial puppet, would you want a dick like Reza Pahlavi to be your monarch for rest of your life or Lori Forouzandeh to be the Empress? No brainer my boy, no brainer!

At least Lori looks good! Reza looks like my Dick with Syphilis! Sorry Haji Kuchike, I did not mean to insult you! You are much more handsome than RP! Please forgive me! Can you?

Give me a break! Will ya LLH?

Monarchists’ whole concept of Referendums and Elections is flawed and childish! It makes no sense! Not that it will ever happen in a million years, but still even if it could happen, it would have severe flaws and totally illogical and definitely not practical!

Aside from LLH, I am sure Reza Pahlavi, Fouladvand, Homayoun and the rest of Monarchists are right now reading this article, the same as they read all my articles. So, I am doing you a favor. After reading this, please go find a new game because this Referendums and Elections game does not work anymore. It is flawed. Please go put a new garter belt, bra and girdle on Reza Pahlavi, maybe with some plastic surgery and makeup, you can somehow shove him up there in to the spotlight of the future referendums!

I truly feel sorry for monarchists, because your problem is not only the fact that Monarchy as a system of government to start a government from the scratch in the 21sth century, is not practical; yet, your main problem is the fact that your Monarch is the worst possible candidate for the job!

Your Monarch does not even have one quality to sell to the people of Iran! He has no charisma, can’t speak, is not a great speaker or lecturer, never had a job in his life, is a coward, has no education, has no skills, looks feminine, is superficial, and on top of it all looks like a Dick!

Monarchists, please accept my deepest condolences, because with this GeiSha, you will take your dreams of establishing a constitutional monarchy in Iran, to the grave!

You need games, you need a new Shah, you need a new gimmick, you need a new theory, you need a new plan, you …………………….. you need so many new things that Iranian people will tell you, they are better off with a Republic than your GeiSha!

You see, Iran is bankrupt. Economy is destroyed. We surely cannot afford to create another ceremonial office and set a salary for your GeiSha (Reza Pahlavi) to put on a Monkey Suit and live in a palace in Tehran! He is best residing in his mansion in Maryland and continue following US Senators and CIA Officials as a pet around DC (whoof whoof), every few years, so maybe they will throw him a bone or two. You cannot even sell Reza Pahlavi to American Media, set aside Masses of Iran!

But, I admire your spirits! Even though Monarchy had died 28 years ago and your Shah did not lift a finger to revive his own crown! Even though Iranians inside or outside are mocking your Shah and your silly outdated ideology! Even though our people and are youth are now too educated to yet go under another Totalitarian or Non Practical regime (after IRI)! Even though ……………
……………….. yet you still keep your hopes up and from bottom of your hearts scream:

Reza Khan, where are you to see what has happened to your legacy?
Reza Khan, please don’t shake in your grave!
This is what it came down to!
A GeiSha, A Group of Kiss Ass Khayeh Malan around him, and a few Juvenile Soosool monarcho Teens on the net!
Reza Khan, this is what happened to your legacy of Iranian Imperial Monarchy!
I bet if you knew it would turn out this way, then on 1925, you would’ve sworn in office as a president to not see this disgrace in the future!
Reza Khan don’t weep because I cry for Iran and Iranians every week!
Dear Father of the nation, I am truly sorry that your Grand Son had turned out as a useless faggot in drag!
Rest in peace Reza Khan, rest in peace………………}

Well Dr X, as you said in your article a Nationalist Government can either be a Monarchy or Republic! So which one do you favour??? It's time to make up your mind - which i'm confident you already have! I consider myself a Nationalist as well (monarchy is not all that is on my mind!), but I cannot sit on the sidelines saying both a Monarchy and Republic can serve Iran well taking into account the realities in existence. It's not that I disagree with that statement, in fact I agree fully, but taking into account the present socio-economical/political situation, history, and culture of my motherland YOU and I have to make a decision and make our stances clear. Based on research i've come to my conclusion, and that is that the system of monarchy will serve Iran far better than the republic. That is after all the argument i've laid out in this thread. Whether you want to admit it or not you have embraced the republican system as being superior to the monarchical system. You have ardently defended that stance in here as well - so how can you then distance yourself from your decision and say that you're not a republican! What all this leads me to suspect is a CLOSET-REPUBLICAN!

Come out of the closet Dr X! Don't be ashamed! You're a Nationalistic Republican and proud of it! Lets make this clear that this is where you stand today. To the contrary i'm a Nationalistic Monarchist and proud of it; as you can see we both have arguments to support those two differing standpoints! Everything else is word-play. As for our arguments it is up to the audience which we direct our statements towards to judge whose argument is stronger.

Let us hold an open, honest, and informative debate on the benefits and short-comings of these two political systems.

Ba Sepaas

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

I just read your previous post. It was quite disappointing to read this post because, I once again saw the same old accusations, many who have already been addressed by myself in this thread and other threads, resurfaced.

Few examples you brought up which I have already addressed in this thread are your portrayal of Monarchy in an "Absolutist" form and using scare-tactics (sorry can't think of another term at this late hour!) on people into thinking its some kind of backward one-man dictatorship. Applied to the republican case this would amount to portraying a picture of the republic in which Saddam Hussein would be an ideal president representing that system. These are very poor attempts in "blowing things way out of proportion" and distorting the REAL picture. Another example you brought up was the cost of having a monarchy vs a republic which I have raised in this thread as well , and even given you real-life examples of monarchies which cost much less than republics in that way making them much more cost-efficient. I'm sure there are other examples which you dug up - which I had addressed earlier - which is totally un-necessary.

I will go over this post once more later, to see if I can find anything NEW that hasn't been addressed by myself. You've resorted to distorting and exaggerating opposing arguments, but if you were morally right in your own argument you wouldn't need to use these kind of tactics.

Ba Sepaas

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

Unlike Amir whom believes that you have lost this argument a few days ago, the reality believes that you had lost this argument a long time ago. Even Old Timer Monarchists know that you have lost this argument while ago. You were their last hope, because amongst all of them, you are the only one who can put all of their ideas, reasoning and philosophy in to words, thus you are the only one with enough knowledge of English to actually argue an official debate such as this. You were the last hope of All Iranian Monarchists defending Monarchy in this thread and in politics of Iran.

They know it, readers and people know it, I know it but the only ones who still do not know it are you and a handful of Exiled born Iranian Juveniles around the globe who are still charmed with the way Shah used to dress in the Imperial Iran!

The few people who mentioned in this thread that Iran needs a firm and a powerful regime to establish a government of law and order, are not necessarily Monarchists, but they believe in general that a Nationalist Regime must be firm to do this task. To keep the country intact and united, you need a Nationalist Regime, not Reza Pahlavi! What Reza Pahlavi brings is division because all thinking minds despise this chubby lazy fellow!

In 21sth Century, today’s Iran and Iranians do not need a Shah to keep the country intact and united and surely they do not need That Shah to be Reza Pahlavi (Symbol of comfort-seeking, indecision, corruption, laziness and failure)!

Reza Pahlavi is a sole symbol of failure, laziness, corruption and degeneracy of Iranian Monarchial System. Reza Pahlavi is everything that the Anti Monarchy Activists need to prove that Monarchy fails miserably! Reza Pahlavi is the worst Monarch possible for the past, present and future Iran!

Ahmad Shah Qajar and Shah Sultan Hussein Safavid had more courage, backbone and ingenuity than Reza Pahlavi, because at least they ruled Iran and they have done it from the inside Iran, and not crowning themselves from Washington DC and Maryland!

Reza Pahlavi is what we can call, a bold, yet superficial and lazy wanna be Shah aka

A bold, lazy, untalented, uneducated, opportunist, failure who never even tried or had the will to try to regain the Pahlavi Crown, yet always running around DC like a pet to US Senate and CIA to see if they will hand him the Iranian Crown and import him to Iran, like they imported his father to Iran on 1953. But at least his father was worthy, yet Reza Pahlavi is an absolute waste of oxygen!

You, dear Liberator were the only Monarchist with a good enough English who could put the Monarchist arguments into words to save Monarchy. This thread was the final stand for Monarchy to live!

Monarchy is already dead, not just in Iran (28 years ago), but globally dead! A handful of nations and only due to traditions are still stuck in the 18-century style of Monarchy! Monarchs and Monarchy is not a functional system of government but a system of government for lazy leaches (Monarch and his Courthouse) as an extra piece of useless parasite or Cancerous Cyst to feed off of the national budget. 21sth century Monarchs are like Parasitic Intestine Worms!

The Best and Worst Monarchy!

Monarchy in its best form (Constitutional Monarchy) is a feeding ground for leeches (Monarch and his courthouse) whom in a real world would serve no purpose and would be unemployed!

Monarchy in its worst form (Absolutist Monarchy) is a Backward Dictatorship!

On Fundamental of Monarchy

Monarchy and Monarchists are irrational, illogical, out of touch, reactionary, backward, unscientific and by the great majority superstitious and religious, because the only factor which can cling their kingdom together is religion and God for the masses of cattle to believe in the divine right of the Shah or Emperor or King or Queen to rule the nation! Even you fit the profile:

You are an unscientific, illogical, irrational, emotional, God-fearing and superstitious young man! Fear of Unknown is what keeps the Monarchy alive!

Monarchy is as corrupt as the Church! Even Totalitarian Ideologies such as Nazism, Fascism, Marxism and etc., throughout the history, had no respect for Monarchs and Monarchists! Hitler, Mussolini and Stalin practically mocked Monarchists and Monarchs as lazy, corrupt and useless abominations!

Today in 21sth Century and almost 2007, a

Secular, Federal, Democratic Republic is the most logical way to go. Specifically in Iran of today with 70% youth population, you cannot shove this dead ideology into people’s psyche and surely you cannot sell Reza Pahlavi, the symbol of Corruption, as the king to Iranians! Reza Pahlavi is everything that is wrong with the Monarchy!

So my friend, you have lost this argument last year! And there is no other Monarchist with enough language skills, education, power of argument and guts to take on this argument. You were the final hope for Monarchy and I have nailed the final nail in the coffin of the Monarchy!

But of course idealists such as you and a handful of others whom are still sticking with glory of the past are failing to see the reality that Monarchy is dead not just in Iran but globally! I truly admire your spirit and the code of honor and chivalry! But all these, do not bring you logic and the means to win this argument. This argument takes reasoning to win, and you and Monarchists had run out of reasoning, a long time ago!

As I have mentioned before, Monarchy’s time had passed, over a quarter of a century ago (in Iran) and about half a century ago in Europe and Japan. Tradition is what keeps the dead bones of the British Queen and Japanese Emperor still alive!

These traditions are as dead, old, outdated and illogical as the religion!

Mullahs of Iran are as outdated as the monarchists are! Both are incompatible with today’s complexed world. Nothing will revive them, not even “Windows Vista” and a “Upgrade”!

Religion and Monarchy go hand in hand and they are both dead!
Time to move on, time to stick with the future………..
The Future is Science
The future is logic
The Future is bright

King is Dead, Long live The King!!!

My friend, once again I have an advice for you,

Evolve Liberator…………. Evolve

That is what Darwin and Einstein would have told you!

May Allah rest the last of the monarchy and monarchists in eternal peace.
It was good while it lasted!

Lib, you have lost this argument last year and you are a Dead Man but still walking. You just don’t know it yet! You think you are still alive, but look close, you are a skeleton walking in Twilight Zone and Reza Pahlavi’s, Fouladvand’s and Homayoun’s old rotting corps are cheering for you in Oz! But even they know that, the fairytale is over and it is time to rest their bones in Graveyard of History!

Nothing new there and I don't care to engage in a discussion of demonizing the republic/monarchy with emotional statements, such as those by yourself, which have already been addressed. Making excessively long posts that have no relevance to the subject at hand and highly emotionally charged are not helpful and might signify that you are not serious about addressing the subject at hand. If you'd like to go back to discussing this in a civilized and rational manner regarding the benefits of either system i'm game. But if you want to just repeat the same old slogans "monarchy is outdated" "monarchy is too costly" etc etc which have been addressed a thousand times I will not further waste my time on this.

As a nationalist republican you have a right to defend your ideology in a CORRECT and JUST manner but maligning others' ideologies with lies, emotional statements, trying to deviate from the core of the topic and so on does not stick with me.

The Monarchy is Alive - The Monarchy is a Viable Alternative

Now one either realizes this or confines him/herself with an already pre-conceived judgement of theirs and fails to have a realistic perspective.

That's my last word on this for now until I see a change in your attitude Dr X.

Ba Sepaas

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

I knew you would say something like this! I told you I admire your spirit.
No Retreat, No Surrender, just like Hitler’s spirit in the Final Battle of Berlin! And we all know what was Hitler’s fate!

BTW,
Have you noticed that the total number of posts, posted by you, on the left column of this page (the “Author” column) is up to 1951 now? Now you are going by years in the 20th century and you are up to 1951. Soon you will be up to 1953! Be very careful what you post! Mosadeq and 28 Mordad is coming up!

ps:
Ahreeman does not get emotional. Ahreeman is not human. Ahreeman is beyond these carbon based feelings. Ahreeman is a Beyonder!

It is sometimes said that Country can never be a really modern state while it still has a monarchy. This of course ignores countries like United Kingdom, Japan, Spain, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, The Netherlands and many others all of which are modern constitutional monarchies in modern countries where majority of the people of those nations have absolutely no intention of removing their monarchy because of the benefits they recognize they derive from it. In some countries where they have relinquished the monarchy in the past rather than reforming it or modernizing it, many people wish that there was a possibility of restoring it but often the passage of time has been too great. In some countries recently such as Afghanistan serious attempts were made to look at the restoration of the monarchy as a valuable uniting symbol of a disparate population but it was realized that in the meantime other factors had intervened which rendered this not practical.

The argument often put forward is that a monarchy it is not democratic. In fact it is that blissful combination of an institution which is entirely under democratic control yet above politics, faction, division, election, appointment, and short-term tenure providing a continuous thread from the past to a certain future.

The first question that one has to consider is what type of president one is referring to. This is absolutely crucial because the various different types of president vary enormously in their power and scope and role. Indeed this is one of the major difficulties in any attempt to move from a constitutional monarchy to a republic in that it is can be almost impossible for the nation to decide, and to decide by a large enough majority, just what sort of President they wish to have and also by which method this President is to be elected or chosen. Is it to be by universal suffrage would result in another absolutely mammoth nationwide election or is it to be by some sort of electoral college or by appointment by the parliament or by some group of elected representatives? Is the president going to be the head of government as well as the head of state or purely just the head of state and if so will he or she have any powers at all or simply be a figurehead? The argument against a President who is head of state as well as head of government is that too much power is concentrated in one pair of hands, despite any other checks and balances that there may be. The overall workload and responsibilities are massive and the post has to combine the roles of the head of government and the ceremonial duties of head of state and these are often incompatible and in any case very time-consuming. One of the advantages of the constitutional monarchy is that it can remove a large number of the ceremonial and figurehead and nation-unifying roles from the head of government allowing the person to concentrate on matters governmental. If a country opts for a head of state with little power, a limited period of tenure and who attempts to be above politics, the result is usually somebody who cannot adequately symbolise for any period of time the unity, the history, and the continuity of the nation and this person sometimes is a nonentity whom very few people know outside the country and indeed sometimes inside the country! There can also be huge difficulties in the head of government having ceremonial duties with the armed forces and this is best done by a non-political person and this is of course one of the major roles of the Royal Family.

Elected presidents are concerned more with their own political futures and power. Constitutional monarchs are not subject to the influences which can corrupt short-term presidents. A monarch can represent centuries of history whereas elected Presidents in their nature devote much energy to undoing the achievements of their predecessors and setting traps for their successors. With monarchs it is the reverse- they build on the achievements of their forebears in order to strengthen the position of their successors. A long-reigning monarch can put enormous experience at the disposal of transient political leaders. This was the case with our last Emperor Pedro II who ruled Brazil for almost 60 years with respect and dignity to the people and it’s political power and above all act as the “cool-head” to hot-temper fire brander members of both liberal and conservative political parties. An experienced monarch can act as a sounding-board for politicians.

Having a monarchy and a Imperial family means that a whole family of people are undertaking valuable ceremonial and charitable duties across the country to a degree to which an executive president or symbolic president just cannot fulfil.

An Emperor is an Emperor, not because he is rich and powerful as most only wealth and power is their moral high ground , not because he is a successful politician, not because he belongs to a particular creed or to a national group. He is King because he is born. And in choosing to leave the selection of their Ruler to this most common denominator in the world - the accident of birth - Nations implicitly proclaim their faith in human equality; their hope for the triumph of nature over political manoeuvre, over social and financial interest; for the victory of the human person.

You often hear it asked why the opportunity to hold the highest position in the land should be denied the person in the street. But it is a question of how you define our highest position in the land. It is clear that the Prime Minister is the most powerful - a post which is of course open to anyone. The monarchy retains only residual powers which are hardly ever used and if they are, they are only exercised on the advice of the government of the day or in order to save the country and it’s institutions from chaos and anarchy, much like King Juan Carlos of Spain did during the attempt Coup On 23 February 1981, during the debate preceding Leopoldo Calvo Sotelo's investiture as successor to Adolfo Suarez who had just resigned on the insistence of his own party members a small group of Guardia Civil of Spain occupied the Congress of Deputies at the same time that Captain General of Valencia declared a state of emergency and ordered the militarization of the region. The decisive action of the King aborted the attempted coup. That is the Moral of a King, that we can not see in someone like our present President Lula and previous such as Janio Quadros who help to create the situations that we still living on.

Republicans will argue against people holding positions when they have not been democratically elected to them, yet they appoint to the govern unseasoned people who have never held elected offices and in most case know very little about the job they were appointed to do. A constitutional monarchy is the delightful combination of an institution which is entirely under democratic control and yet entirely above divisive election and supported by the majority of members of all political parties.

The words archaic and feudal are applied to put down the argument in favor of the monarchy to make it sound out-of-date and anachronistic, not taking into account how that monarchies have evolved and developed over the centuries and the major modernization and reform taking place and envisaged at present.

A good example is Queen Elizabeth who is the Monarch of 16 independent countries and the Head of the Commonwealth of 54 nations across the globe- an absolutely astonishing fact in this age of separatism and a massive worldwide symbol of unity and association which can only be achieved by a monarch – can you imagine all these nations agreeing on an appointed let alone elected symbol. Most on the nation which who HM the Queen is the head of are success story and real symbol of political freedom and democracy. Can you image President Lula or Bush being able to head sixteen different nations? Most president have a hard time controlling they own parties.

At the present Brazilian political situation hopes are dying down to find that one person who is the truly by the Grace of G-d a Constitutional ruler and Perpetual Defender of Brazil. Most Brazilian politician our neither honest, constitutional observers and certain not interest in Defending Brazil, but only they on financial interests.

The new political scandal of Brazil "The Mensalão" is good example of were an Emperor would in private say to a Prime Minister of the day, "Mr. Prime Minister we believe that under the circumstances your government in no longer beneficial to the people of Brazil". The Emperor powers would be vital for the safeguard of democracy and liberty.

Many nations who have lost their monarchies wish they could restore them, such as Afghanistan, Brazil and others because they can see the value of a non-political unifying symbol above faction and politics and racial and ethnic division.

The Benefits

A Summary of some of the many benefits of our modern constitutional monarchy could offer to Brazil

Our modern Constitutional Monarchy gives us a Monarch who would be:

* An impartial Head of State above politics, commercial and factional interests
* A focus for national unity, national awards and honours and national institutions
* The centrepiece of colourful non-political ceremonial and national celebrations
* Separate from the Head of Government (the Prime Minister), unlike in some
countries where the two are combined, often with difficulties as we can see now in Brazil
* Able and will to give impartial non-political support to the work of a wide range of
different types of organizations, faiths, charities, artists, craftsmen etc
* A Head of State completely under the democratic control of Parliament but not having to be change every few years in divisive elections
* A head of a Royal Family who can share the duties and represent the Emperor
* A constant, lasting symbolic head of the country with links back through our whole history and assured lines of continuity into the future
* A worldwide well-known and respected symbol of our country carrying out State Visits and goodwill tours in other countries who is related to so many other head of States
* The possibilities and opportunities for the Monarchy are endless for a country that 116 years late still cries for their Imperador and Princesa Rendentora almost in very carnival and certainly on May 13th. Why do we Brazilian always elect a Rei or Rainha in almost
every occasion we can Rei Momo, Rainha do Carnival and the list goes on?

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

You might not like the path that His Majesty the Crown Prince has chosen. You might, and even I, might not like the fact that he isn't his grandfather, but putting aside our emotions/biases - he has chosen to take on a leadership role which he deems fitting for this day and age that we live in.

His Majesty the Crown Prince has never relinquished his claim to the Iranian throne and as such is the legal heir to the Iranian Peacock Throne. If i'm not wrong His Majesty the Crown Prince swore an allegiance after his father's death to protect and uphold the Iranian Constitution. In that Constitution, again correct me if i'm wrong, his duties as a Constitutional Monarch are set out. As a symbolic head of state he can only do so much. He is not a warrior. If he was the nation would condemn him for it, and as you can see in this case - if he is not people like you, Dr X, and others will condemn him for that - even my emotions have taken over sometimes and blamed him for not being more "tough handed". So nothing will ever please the Iranian people. Don't blame His Majesty the Crown Prince for the foolishness of the Iranian Nation and their decisions in 1979.

My sole purpose (in this thread) is to defend the Monarchy as it should be and not let its good name be dragged into the dirt because of exaggerations, lies, personal disputes (Dr X!) and deceitful statements. I am not "bragging" about anything but merely stating the facts. I am not here to convert you into anything, i'm only here to spread some knowledge on an institution that is WIDELY misrepresented/underestimated in the day and age we live in and which the majority of people have no clue what it is nor how it works and at best thinks it's "an out-dated, non-democratic system".

If you already know what a Constitutional Monarchy is, how it is set up and run, and what it's benefits and shortcomings are then yes this thread is a waste of time for you - however all individuals are not that knowledgeable.

Ba Sepaas

"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K

I want people to have access to “All” information; morely, I want people to read, compare and judge “All” information to gain knowledge firsthand and decide on their own about their own ideology. That is why I insist that IPC links to “All”.

IPC’s mission is to protect and serve the Persian Culture, so naturally, IPC is the most solid Nationalist Site on the net, so it is pretty obvious why Mojaheds, Muslim and Marxists would not link to it!

Why Mojaheds will not link to IPC?Because if they do, then their young readers who come through IPC and read IPC, will not return as Marxist Islamists!

Why Muslim will not link to IPC?Because if they do, then their young readers who come through IPC and read IPC, will not return as Muslim!

Why Marxists will not link to IPC?Because if they do, then their young readers who come through IPC and read IPC, will not return as Internationalists!

Why Monarchists will not link to IPC?

But Monarchists claim to be such Great Nationalists! So why is it that they are so afraid for their young readers to read IPC? Why is it that only a handful of Monarchist sites link to IPC? If Monarchists are such great nationalists and IPC is the most solid nationalist site on the net, then what’s The Deal? Where’s the Beef?

Even Monarchist Orgs. Which are directly in communication with IPC, and even my own club moderator, Lib, refuse to link to IPC Website in their sites! Why so afraid?!

Why Monarchists will not link to IPC?Because if they do, then their young readers who come through IPC and read IPC, will not return as Monarchists!

All these young folks need to see are various articles on IPC written by myself, which scientifically and logically with documented facts proves that:

I. Monarchy is an outdated ideology.
II. Monarchy is unscientific and illogical.
III. Monarchy is a dysfunctional political ideology.

And most of all,

IV. Reza Pahlavi has failed to commit to his duties as the inheritor of the Persian Crown and Throne. He even failed to lift a single finger to free Iran for 28 + years. He is not even qualified to be a political leader set aside the future Shah!

And any logical youth who would read these patterns of logic, specifically this thread:

Why is it that traditional Iranian Monarchist school of thought would hide the link to IPC from Iranian youth, specifically from Iranian Monarchist Youth? Why base your ideology on misinformation and hiding the information from public?

I Challenge All Monarchists!

I challenge “All” Monarchist sites to post the link to IPC on their sites! If you are such great nationalists as you claim to be and if you can defend your ideological stands, then why are you scoop as low as trying to hide information; morely, to misinform the public? Don’t be afraid! No one can censor the net in 21sth century! Not even Mullahs and IRI can! Got Proxy? IPC is already the most trafficked Iranian political site on the net and it shall be the largest Iranian website in the globe. So face the music rather than trying to hide it! The secret is out, the taboo has been heard, no sense to cover it!

I love Monarchists! Monarchists are funny people! They crack me up! They “All” read IPC in hiding, under the blankets and with flashlights in hush hush! They read IPC like Christian academic Schoolboys sneak on the net to read porn! Even their leaders like Reza Pahlavi, Dariush Homayoun, Foroud Fouladvand and others follow IPC like little Muslim boys in Madrasah follow Quran studies! IPC to Monarchist Veterans is like Playboy Magazine to Reverend Jerry Farwell and Moral Majority! The Good Reverend reads every issue with passion, yet denies ever seeing one!

All of them read IPC in hiding and denial, non of them reveal that they do it and theyall surely refuse to link to it and let the secret out!