I mean, a player who gets decreases like 92 -> 85 (ATK), 70 -> 58 (TW) and 83 -> 69 (MENT) because of his performances on a single championship doesn't seem quite right to me...

On the brazillian league, Fred has been the most effective CF on the past 5 years - and that's not irrelevant at all, since on the same period the brazillian league had many good strikers, like Luis Fabiano, Leandro Damião (when he was in good form), Barcos (when he was in good form, too), Ronaldo, Adriano, Vagner Love, Liédson and so on (i know, most of them aren't not first class strikers, and neither does Fred. But they all had great seasons playing in Brazil, and Fred was almost always ahead of all of them).

His stats reflected a player that displayed years of effectiveness as a striker, that were being reflected on Brazil's National Team. In 2013, he scored 9 goals in 11 appearences (5 of them in FIFA's Confederations Cup), even though his season was plagued by injuries and a terrible campaing of his club, Fluminense, in the Brazillian League. On the last page, there was people discussing about raising his Attack to a god-level 95, for example - ok, Fred never deserved such value on ATK, but the fact that this was put into discussion reflects how well he was performing.

Then, because of terrible displays on one single competition, where he played after coming back of a injury, on a team that was just catastrophic overral on his attack (aside from Neymar) he suddenly becomes a awful striker? I think we should wait a couple more weeks after the WC to decrease his stats. Otherwise, we should be decreasing the stats of many other players who were bad at the WC - such as Oscar, Cristiano Ronaldo, Casillas, Aguero and so on.

guibarneche wrote:Ok, guys... aren't we being a little too harsh on Fred?

I mean, a player who gets decreases like 92 -> 85 (ATK), 70 -> 58 (TW) and 83 -> 69 (MENT) because of his performances on a single championship doesn't seem quite right to me...

On the brazillian league, Fred has been the most effective CF on the past 5 years - and that's not irrelevant at all, since on the same period the brazillian league had many good strikers, like Luis Fabiano, Leandro Damião (when he was in good form), Barcos (when he was in good form, too), Ronaldo, Adriano, Vagner Love, Liédson and so on (i know, most of them aren't not first class strikers, and neither does Fred. But they all had great seasons playing in Brazil, and Fred was almost always ahead of all of them).

His stats reflected a player that displayed years of effectiveness as a striker, that were being reflected on Brazil's National Team. In 2013, he scored 9 goals in 11 appearences (5 of them in FIFA's Confederations Cup), even though his season was plagued by injuries and a terrible campaing of his club, Fluminense, in the Brazillian League. On the last page, there was people discussing about raising his Attack to a god-level 95, for example - ok, Fred never deserved such value on ATK, but the fact that this was put into discussion reflects how well he was performing.

Then, because of terrible displays on one single competition, where he played after coming back of a injury, on a team that was just catastrophic overral on his attack (aside from Neymar) he suddenly becomes a awful striker? I think we should wait a couple more weeks after the WC to decrease his stats. Otherwise, we should be decreasing the stats of many other players who were bad at the WC - such as Oscar, Cristiano Ronaldo, Casillas, Aguero and so on.

Aguero had a bad WC? quite the contrary, but the numbers now fred are well, it was a real shit throughout the WC was never dangerous, never helped the defense, was always standing on the edge of the box doing nothing and showing always be tired soooo.

Pressure he had on every game was immense, and it was still growing each consecutive game. Don't give him the brush-off after 5 matches. Whole team was terrible, but people laid the blame just on him, which is unfair in my opinion.

guibarneche wrote:Ok, guys... aren't we being a little too harsh on Fred?

I mean, a player who gets decreases like 92 -> 85 (ATK), 70 -> 58 (TW) and 83 -> 69 (MENT) because of his performances on a single championship doesn't seem quite right to me...

On the brazillian league, Fred has been the most effective CF on the past 5 years - and that's not irrelevant at all, since on the same period the brazillian league had many good strikers, like Luis Fabiano, Leandro Damião (when he was in good form), Barcos (when he was in good form, too), Ronaldo, Adriano, Vagner Love, Liédson and so on (i know, most of them aren't not first class strikers, and neither does Fred. But they all had great seasons playing in Brazil, and Fred was almost always ahead of all of them).

His stats reflected a player that displayed years of effectiveness as a striker, that were being reflected on Brazil's National Team. In 2013, he scored 9 goals in 11 appearences (5 of them in FIFA's Confederations Cup), even though his season was plagued by injuries and a terrible campaing of his club, Fluminense, in the Brazillian League. On the last page, there was people discussing about raising his Attack to a god-level 95, for example - ok, Fred never deserved such value on ATK, but the fact that this was put into discussion reflects how well he was performing.

Then, because of terrible displays on one single competition, where he played after coming back of a injury, on a team that was just catastrophic overral on his attack (aside from Neymar) he suddenly becomes a awful striker? I think we should wait a couple more weeks after the WC to decrease his stats. Otherwise, we should be decreasing the stats of many other players who were bad at the WC - such as Oscar, Cristiano Ronaldo, Casillas, Aguero and so on.

My thoughts exactly, he had a good form for almost 5 years now, and because of 6 games where he wasnt at his best we torn off his stats? I get why people doesnt like him, his style is not pretty at all, but its undeniably effective, the thing is, he is not an one man army player like messi who can carry his entire team almost all by himself, no matter how awfull his comrades are, if the team sucks, he sucks, but if you put him as the striker of an organized that know his strenghts and weaknesses and now how to play with him, you can be sure he is going to shine.

I think his stats should come back to what they were before, we cant judge him on 6 matches, sure, if he cant keep a good form, his stats should be decreased, but he barely played this year before the world cup because of injuries for we to make a judgement, that goes against the beliefs of this forum.

Some of his previous values were plainly wrong. ATT 92 had been given due to the old misconception of ATT = Positioning. Fred usually positions himself in a smart way, but that's what the *Positioning special skill is for. In terms of pure danger, he's nowhere near orange ATT, a player worthy of orange ATT will show such danger and menace even in a disadvantageous situation. I've seen fred through the ConfeCup and the World Cup, and he's never looked that good. Even if you compare him to his teammates, I believe it's pretty obvious players like Neymar should sit way higher than him in terms of ATT, Neymar i.e. brings much more to his team's attack than someone like Fred.

Not to mention, 85 ATT is in no way a "poor" or "bad" value. Orange ATT should be reserved for truly dangerous and resourceful attacking players, we actually have very few players on orange or red ATT in the database, and all of them are way better than Fred from my point of view.

Regarding the comparison with other "underperformers" in the WC... Agüero and Ronaldo have clearly not been fully fit, and Casillas' stats will indeed be reviewed.

Korinov wrote:Some of his previous values were plainly wrong. ATT 92 had been given due to the old misconception of ATT = Positioning. Fred usually positions himself in a smart way, but that's what the *Positioning special skill is for. In terms of pure danger, he's nowhere near orange ATT, a player worthy of orange ATT will show such danger and menace even in a disadvantageous situation. I've seen fred through the ConfeCup and the World Cup, and he's never looked that good. Even if you compare him to his teammates, I believe it's pretty obvious players like Neymar should sit way higher than him in terms of ATT, Neymar i.e. brings much more to his team's attack than someone like Fred.

Not to mention, 85 ATT is in no way a "poor" or "bad" value. Orange ATT should be reserved for truly dangerous and resourceful attacking players, we actually have very few players on orange or red ATT in the database, and all of them are way better than Fred from my point of view.

Im sorry but its really just the opposite of what you said, anyone thats watches Fred consistently can notice that he is usually the one with less touches on the pitch but everytime he touches, it creates danger, if a defender blink for a second more inside the box, the first thing he will see when he opens his eyes is Fred scoring, examples?

this is a full match video match against england last year, he got in the place of luis fabiano at the start of the second half, look at 1:11:00 that is his first touch on the ball, look again at 1:12:10, that is the second time he gets a pass, seriously, his style is not pretty but the guy is insane

Plus, if we go by ladders, this 85 leaves him on the same level as Leandro Damiao, Damiao got better physical stats but Fred is way better than him as a striker. I will say it again, he should get his old stats back then have a PROPER discussion about what to do, this whole "OMG HE SUCKED AT THE WORLD CUP, LETS DESTROY HIM" is completely unfair to Fred

Maybe it's a late post, but Fred is the one who (alongside cavalieri) carried on their backs that Fluminense team that beat Atlético-MG to the title, this was back when Atlético-MG were hot stuff and Ronaldinho was still doing amazing shit like this:

From one point of view I don't agree with such decreases in Fred's stats cause he was one of the best brazilians strikers during about 5 years, he also played very well on Confederations Cup. From other point of view, he playing really bad (like he did on World Cup) more than half year, so for now this stats are good.

Still I don't know why he need SP 85, this is too much for him, his number is 84 really and surely not more. Also I'd decrease his DA to 79 to make his close control as it is in reality.