If we hadn't somehow pulled two goals out of nowhere tonight and Leipzig hadn't lost their shit these past few days they'd be first. Truth is, other teams handed it to us this season. Dortmund have been doing so since the beginning (if they played like last year, they'd be champions easily) and now Leipzig seems to have lost it. That's why this title isn't exactly good for us.

I don't think we can be overtaken even if both Dortmund and Leipzig beat us (which I find likely). They'll continue to drop even more points.

So basically you are saying that Bayern arent allowed to drop points? So somehow - the title is given to Bayern just because other teams dont win also? What if Leipzig end up lifting it after OTHER teams keep dropping points, including Bayern? That means that they didnt deserve it, other teams gave it to them?

Three points are three points, no team should ever care of other teams dropping points. Who will care if Bayern start dropping points and RB Leipzing starts winning again?

What a logic... You are assuming that Bayern MUST win every single round and also assuming that other teams shouldnt drop points (they are entitled to keep up with Bayern?). Thats crazy as ****. Everybody has their bad games, you just cant keep on going with the If's or How's of other teams. They wont win just to label the title as Bayern deserved it. Everybody has to deserve it, either by winning their games and rivals keep losing their games, its just how it works.

P.S How winning 0-2 isnt deserved? I dont care if the goals were scored in the 100th minute, its football. Real won their CL with that Ramos header + million other games in overtime and I dont see their fans whining. We have become even worse than them in that regard.

pyrasur wrote:It's shaped like a sword. Because that's how formations work. We will only be beaten if Atletico form a rock. We will beat them if they form paper tho.

@zozon: Err, no. I'm just saying we're playing below our expected level and we've dropped some points when we shouldn't have. Similarly, Leipzig and Dortmund have frequently dropped points against teams who are clearly worse than them, this weekend being the best example. Leipzig is perhaps a bit of a question, but Dortmund are nowhere near the same level they were last season. If they were, they'd be first, easily.

Obviously we are still the most consistent team, hence we are first, but we have been lucky. It's not because we're consistent, but rather because the others have been even more inconsistent. We're relying too much on individual talent.

Bayern will deserve the title if they are first after matchday 34, regardless of how bad we are, because it would mean others deserved it even less. But it doesn't mean Ancelotti deserves praise or congratulations.

Also, I'm not sure where the second part of your post came from. I'm not saying other teams shouldn't drop points. I'm a Bayern fan, take a look at my posts in the Bundesliga thread and the match chat, I celebrated the goals against them (obviously). I'll also celebrate the title whether we win it in matchday 20 or matchday 34. But it's undeniable that other teams have made our job easier this season. That's what I meant when I said this title won't be good for us. It creates an illusion that all is well when in reality, you just need to watch a recent Bayern game to realise it's not.

FCBayernMunchen wrote:But it's undeniable that other teams have made our job easier this season. That's what I meant when I said this title won't be good for us. It creates an illusion that all is well when in reality, you just need to watch a recent Bayern game to realise it's not.

As a blanket statement, this makes sense and I would agree. However, on a case-by-case basis, this isn't necessarily true in terms of Bayern in the Bundesliga. In this league, teams like Dortmund and Leipzig will always drop points. Always, until their squad quality can come close to Bayern. Whatever Jupp and Pep did between 2012 and 2016, it can almost be argued as an excessive effort to win the league given how many points we won by. Right now, we're much less ahead but still comfortable. If we give the same amount of effort next season, we will win - this holds true for any given future season, unless a German team can attain a squad that match ours (I'm not talking about just a revolutionary coach or a player on fire, I'm talking about an addition of 5-6 world class players in their squad).

I've been having some complicated thoughts about Ancelotti's time so far. Of course, our football has gotten a lot worse and it has hurt my eyes at times. But the results are still delivered - we don't need to play any better to win the league in its current state. Yet, when we have a point to prove, we still deliver. We played great against Wolfsburg, don't let the small scoreline and the last 10 minutes fool you. We murdered Leipzig. The reality is we're still one of the strongest teams to beat when we have a point to prove.

Ancelotti's not a great coach and nor is he obsessed about tactics and planning, so we'll never see the absolute dominance we've accustomed to for the last 4 years. I've submitted myself to that idea. Whatever, getting frustrated won't help that. Perhaps we can indeed win the league with our hands in our pockets, even though we would probably end up winning it in one of the worst ways possible. Pep's done all that planning, with sleepless nights before a CL semi-final tie, but it was never enough. Maybe Ancelotti's the x-factor that can get us through, maybe not.

We've just about to enter the true "business end of the season" against Arsenal. There's nothing to truly conclude from yet, apart form acknowledging that we play pretty badly but still get good results. There's not a lot of reasons to be happy since we've mostly seen shit on our screens, yet there are plenty of reasons to be patient given our position now. Do we need to play world class football against Ingolstadt or Schalke? No, well not in terms of getting results at least, although I know that we prefer to see beautiful football all the time. This season, we've delivered when we need to. The only thing that we "didn't do but should've done" was beating Atletico and topping the group, but honestly I didn't see the players and Ancelotti pressurised to do this at all. After all, qualifying was the only truly crucial thing. We've passed all the important exams, even though we didn't score too highly.

Patience. If I can have it my way, yes I'll call back Pep so I can enjoy football again. But Thiago, Neuer, Lewandowski, Vidal, Alaba, Müller and Boateng are still here. These guys are major deliverers. Maybe they'll deliver.

@dumbledore the gap is not as big as you want to make it seem. Without going too far, last season's BVB would be first easily, and they lost 3 WC players, not 5. IMO, had they kept Hummels they would be first even without Mhikitaryan and Gündogan.

We've beaten everyone who BVB has beaten last season... not everything is the same in BuLi. We struggle against someone, BVB struggles too but they end up losing. That BVB would be first this season is hypothetical and can't be anything more than that...Tuchel has been exposed IMO, it was Klopp's legacy that made him successful...

Were we lucky or unlucky if you look at the table below?

How the table would've looked like if all the posts and crossbars were goals (actual table position in brackets)

This year we have the best defense in whole Europe statistically. So are we that bad as some are making it to be?

Last edited by JANCKER on Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.

PunkCapitalist wrote:@dumbledore the gap is not as big as you want to make it seem. Without going too far, last season's BVB would be first easily, and they lost 3 WC players, not 5. IMO, had they kept Hummels they would be first even without Mhikitaryan and Gündogan.

There is a gap, but it isn't insurmountable.

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Yes, but it's still a gap. Right now I think it's just about at the bare minimum for us to still be comfortable leaders.

In any case, if they had kept Hummels, would they have bought Dembele, Götze and Guerreiro? Law of averages. It's in the balance.

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