Sister Joan Chittister famously said, "We are each called to go through life reclaiming the planet an inch at a time until the Garden of Eden grows green again." Reflecting on that journey -- a blog at a time -- is the focus of this site.

Thursday, June 04, 2009

And then there's the ECONOMIC argument ...

We've heard the love argument, the justice argument and the theological argument -- just to name a few. Now it's time for the "show me the money" argument on why the time has come for marriage equality.

In the five years since legalizing same-sex marriage, Massachusetts has gained $111 million in spending from gay weddings, according to a new study published by UCLA's Williams Institute, which studies sexual-orientation law and public policy. "That's money buying flowers, hotels, caterers, hiring a band—all the hings that go into a wedding," explains M. V. Lee Badgett, a coauthor of the study.

Typically, same-sex couples spent about $7,400 per wedding, says Badgett, an economist who is also director of UMass Amherst's Center for Public Policy & Administration, and one in 10 couples spent more than $20,000. And then there were the wedding guests: "We estimated that each same-sex couple was associated with $1,600 in hotel-occupancy tax revenue," she says.

Promises of a gay-wedding payoff are hardly new: back in 2004, a U.S. Congressional Budget Office analysis predicted that the federal government would benefit by nearly $1 billion in increased tax revenue each year if same-sex marriages were legalized in all 50 states and recognized by the federal government.

Read the whole thing here ... and then someone smarter than me get a calculator out and start doing the math on this equation:

$7400 per same-sex wedding TIMES the number of same-sex couples wanting to be married but denied equal protection by last month's Supreme Court decision PLUS the estimated $80 million spent by both sides on the Prop 8 campaign PLUS whatever donations are already coming in toward the next campaign for-and-against marriage equality EQUALS:

How much health care for children without medical insurance?

How many school teachers in classrooms instead of the unemployment office?

How many police officers on the streets protecting our families?

How much funding for HIV/AIDS treatment and prevention programs?

How much infrastructure work to keep our roads safe and our bridges sound?

Do that math and then get back to me with how marriage equality is going to undermine western civilization and destroy our families. Do that math and explain to me why the happily-ever-after gay couple down the street is more a threat to your marriage than a tanking economy and shredded constitutional protections. Do that math and give me a call. I'll be all ears.

This really is a stupid argument Susan and is beneath you as an ordained minister in God's church. You could just as readily justify the illegal drug trade or prostitution or abortion as being beneficial for the economy because of the employment those activities generate. Do you have no moral compass?

Brian ... Why yes, yes I do have a moral compass. That's the one that informed the aforementioned love, justice and theology arguments. This is just the economic argument. AND my moral compass tells me that spending untold millions of dollars to prevent marriage equality while kids don't have health care and classrooms don't have teachers IS immoral.

Susan - if you are arguing that money spent lobbying for the next round of legal challenges or referenda ought to be spent on providing kids with health care etc, despite the fact that the money spent on lobbying on both sides comes from private sources whereas the money for health and education etc comes from the public purse, then by the same logic noone ought spend a cent on a same sex wedding but instead devote it to funding child health care etc. You seem to imply this yourself by including the $7,400 per couple in your formula.

I would suggest if the LGBT lobby left the State legislatures alone they would have more time, energy and money to devote to solving the other more serious social problems you list.

Now, maybe you could help me with the maths - approximately how many couples are waiting to spend $7,400 per wedding?

Sadly Brian F comes from Australia and is an example of the Gospel of hate preached here in the Diocese of Sydney although he does his evil work on the other side of the continent.He is happy to live with his wife and 2 kids but denies that pleasure to others.Brian R (alph)

International commentary--impressive! Actually this is an example of what a New Age friend of mine calls 'spiritual economics'. Never mind the shaky source of the notion, it is a prime example. When we live into the American and Christian (!) ideals of fairness and equality for ALL, we all become free of anger, hurt, resentment and bitterness. And that leaves us free to help one another, to love one another--as Jesus loved us. And as the Holy Spirit loves, comforts and teaches us. I'm so tired of wasting energy and resources that could be put to such better use. Thank you, Susan, for such a concrete example!

Susan - I'm just saying that your argument doesn't make sense. In your own words: "$7400 per same-sex wedding TIMES the number of same-sex couples wanting to be married but denied equal protection by last month's Supreme Court decision PLUS the estimated $80 million spent by both sides on the Prop 8 campaign PLUS whatever donations are already coming in toward the next campaign for-and-against marriage equality EQUALS:"

so many child health insurances school teachers, police officers etc.

so if there were for example 1,000 couples waiting to to spend $7,400 on "weddings" = $7.4m plus $80m on prop8 campaigning plus say another $80m on the next round = a total of $167.4m that would be available to be spent on other social issues, which I would be personally all in favour of. I absolutely agree with you that we do not spend anywhere near enough in my own country on public housing, aged care, mental health, law and order etc etc. And the USA is in an even worse position than we are on these things. We are simply arguing the toss on where the money comes from to finance these improvements - it comes from the public taxation system, not from voluntary contributions for political campaigns.

And FYI Brian R the gospel I preach is one of God's love in action - check out John 3:16, Rom 5:8 and Eph 2:4-8

Oh, but weddings keep people emplyed and in business. Sorry, but unless you argue that straight people shouldn't marry because their money should be spent elsewhere, you can't argue that about gays. And putting people to work and stimulating the economy isnot a bad thing.

Welcome to my blog ...

... where I try to be really clear about what I'm clear about. For example:

Religious persecution is when you're prevented from exercising your beliefs, not when you're prevented from IMPOSING your beliefs.

========

Until we end the blatant and indefensible discrimination of DOMA we are not living up to the pledge we make to be a nation of liberty and justice for all, we are not providing the equal protection guaranteed by the 14th Amendment to same-sex couples and we are failing to defend the self-evident truth that our forbearers fought to protect: that ALL people are created equal.

============ Using "biblical standards" to condemn those who understand that sexual orientation is morally neutral makes as much sense as using "biblical standards" to condemn astronomers who understand that the earth revolves around the sun. The Bible may have said it but that doesn't always settle it. ============ It's liberty and justice for all -- not some. It's respect the dignity of every human being -- not just straight ones. Got it? Great. Let's do it.

====== In order to keep moving forward toward liberty and justice for all we can't just be right about what the 1st Amendment protects. We have to be smart about how we respond to those who skipped the 9th Commandment and think lying is a Traditional Family Value. ======= Jesus said "Love your neighbor." Not "Love your neighbor unless your neighbor is gay."

Basic Bio

A cradle Episcopalian second generation Dodger fan ENFJ native of Los Angeles I was ordained in 1996 and currently serve as a Senior Associate at All Saints Church, Pasadena.
My family consists of my wife Lori, 2 dogs, (Hillary & Chelsea), 3 cats (Maui, Cherokee and Harold) and our four young adult kids: Jim (married to the awesome Kelly), Brian, Grace and Emily.
My life in the church has included everything from Junior Altar Guild with my Aunt Gretchen to my “obligatory young adult lapsed phase” to a tour of duty on the St. Paul’s, Ventura vestry where I also worked as parish secretary to a life-heart-soul changing experience as part of the Cursillo community to serving on my parish ECW Board to seminary at the School of Theology in Claremont to associate/day school chaplain positions at St. Mark’s, Altadena and St. Peter’s, San Pedro to Executive Director of Claiming the Blessing to my current parish position at All Saints Church. It’s been a long and winding road and the journey continues: an inch at a time.

Bottom Line:

A Comment On Comments

Strongly held perspectives are appreciated. Ad hominem attacks will be deleted. When in doubt, revisit page 305 of the BCP and if what you're typing doesn't meet the "respect the dignity" clause of the Baptismal Covenant then save us both some time and energy and don't hit "send."

DISCLAIMER

This blog is the personal weblog of one Susan Lynn Russell. The opinions expressed herein are hers and hers alone. The postions taken on matters theological or political (or anything else, for that matter) are in no way to be construed as the official positions of any other person, institution, group or organization.

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Smart things other people have said you should know about

“Faith in action is called politics. Spirituality without action is fruitless and social action without spirituality is heartless. We are boldly political without being partisan. Having a partisan-free place to stand liberates the religious patriot to see clearly, speak courageously, and act daringly.” -- Ed Bacon

“Power at its best is love implementing the demands of justice. Justice at its best is love correcting everything that stands against love.” – Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.

"It's time for "tolerant" religious people to acknowledge the straight line between the official anti-gay theologies of their denominations and the deaths of these young people. Nothing short of changing our theology of human sexuality will save these young and precious lives." -- The Rt Rev Gene Robinson

"How can you initiate someone into the Body of Christ and then treat them like they’re half-assed baptized?" - The Rt Rev Barbara Harris

“I swore never to be silent whenever and wherever human beings endure suffering and humiliation. We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ~ Elie Wiesel, 1986 Nobel Peace Prize

"Resolve to be tender with the young, compassionate with the aged, sympathetic with the striving and tolerant with the weak and wrong. Sometime in your life, you will have been all of these." — Siddhārtha Gautama

"I'm so glad Mary didn't wait for the formulation of a Doctrine of the Incarnation before she said 'Yes' to God." -- Ed Bacon

"The great Easter truth is not that we will be born again someday but that we are to be alive here and now by the power of the resurrection." -- Philips Brooks (paraphrase)

"History belongs to the intercessors, who believe the future into being.” -- Walter Wink

“Patience, a quality of holiness may be sloth in the soul when associated with the lack of righteous indignation.” -- Abraham Heschel

"Don't tell me what you believe. Tell me what difference it makes that you believe!" -- Verna Dozier

“We establish no religion in this country, we command no worship, we mandate no belief. Nor will we ever. Church and state are, and must remain, separate. All are free to believe or not believe, all are free to practice a faith or not, and those who believe are free and should be free, to speak of and act on their belief. At the same time as our constitution prohibits state religion, establishment of it protects the free exercise of all religions. And walking this fine line requires government to be strictly neutral.” -- Ronald Reagan

Let's be clear. The fact that the State authorizes a marriage in no way compels any Church to perform or recognize it. Marriage equality merely guarantees equality under the law to all citizens; it does not compel churches to do anything.-- Katherine Ragsdale