They hate us because we're liars who have broken our promises to them time and time again. We come in and install dictators and care nothing about the atrocities they commit against them so long as the oil flows. Bin Laden was out ally until we dropped his ass when the Russians pulled out of Afghanistan.

FarkedOver:beta_plus: The difference between Romney's supporters and Obama's 47% is that Romney's supporters just want to be left alone. They actually don't have a problem handing over their money to buy peace, but 45 years of doing so has not brought it and it has become obvious that it never will. Not only does Obama's 47% want every last dime of Romney's supporters, they want to kill them as well. But Romney's supporters are clearly all elitist racists and deserve what's coming to them.

That's the crucial difference between America and Sweden. When a rich Swede signs his tax bill, he doesn't worry if he's paying to raise the kids that will murder his children.

I think you're in the wrong thread. Also you might want to get that prolapsed rectum checked out, it's probably causing all that butthurt.

Oh, that is awesome. I have the retard on ignore, but quotes still show up. Don't want to miss all the lulz.

intelligent comment below:America and Britain carved up the former Ottoman Empire because they wanted all the oil. So they put in corrupt dictators and armed radicals. Now after generations the people want nothing to do with the western powers, but said powers continue to butt in and dictate policy. They hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

FarkedOver:Happy Hours: The My Little Pony Killer: No, they hate us because we bomb the bajeezus out of them, and you know what? I don't blame them one little bit.

When was the last time we bombed Iran? Or Syria? Or Jordan?

It's not just bombs. It's called imperialism. When Iran started having "democratic elections", we had to set them straight and install the Shah. We support brutal dictators so we can keep the tap turned on from those oil fields. We do this all at the expense of the people.

Which is why it's good that we're letting the Muslim Brotherhood rule in Egypt. Despite the cries from the right that we should have left Mubarak in place we have to let them control their own destinies. The Middle East has been changing hands between empires for thousands of years and it's time we left them alone. They have plenty of reason to be pissed off, and it has nothing to do with our freedom, and really not very much to do with a poorly produced film about Muhammed.

pdee:intelligent comment below: America and Britain carved up the former Ottoman Empire because they wanted all the oil. So they put in corrupt dictators and armed radicals. Now after generations the people want nothing to do with the western powers, but said powers continue to butt in and dictate policy. They hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

Taking our money causes their poverty.

Liberal Logic.

After all, it's not like only a few wealthy elites get that oil money. ALL of the citizens get a huge cut!

mrshowrules:Saying "they hate us for our freedoms" is actually one of the few things Bush every got right IMHO. Of course, rolling back the freedoms gave the Islamic extremists an easy victory.

Are you aware, for example, that the CIA helped put Saddam Hussein in power? This is fact, aknowledged by those involved, not some conspiracy theory. And of course he is just one of many. The willful ignorance required for someone to believe that the United States is a "Global Force for Good", as the Navy commercial puts it, is why there is no hope for our civilization. The country with the biggest guns is the most dangerous country in the world, no matter how much you delude yourselves.

Isitoveryet:pdee: continue to butt in and dictate policy. They hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

Taking our money causes their poverty.

Liberal Logic.

what did you think they get money for oil and split it between everyone? like some sort of socialism?

Conservative logic: all the proceeds from oil go to the people, education & healthcare.

Its their money. Its theirs to spend how they choose. Unless you think we should go over there in force to change their government to suite you. And its still not our fault that the money stays at the top. If I buy an product its not my fault the CEO makes 500 times more money than the guy sweeping the floor.

dehehn:FarkedOver: Happy Hours: The My Little Pony Killer: No, they hate us because we bomb the bajeezus out of them, and you know what? I don't blame them one little bit.

When was the last time we bombed Iran? Or Syria? Or Jordan?

It's not just bombs. It's called imperialism. When Iran started having "democratic elections", we had to set them straight and install the Shah. We support brutal dictators so we can keep the tap turned on from those oil fields. We do this all at the expense of the people.

Which is why it's good that we're letting the Muslim Brotherhood rule in Egypt. Despite the cries from the right that we should have left Mubarak in place we have to let them control their own destinies. The Middle East has been changing hands between empires for thousands of years and it's time we left them alone. They have plenty of reason to be pissed off, and it has nothing to do with our freedom, and really not very much to do with a poorly produced film about Muhammed.

Yeah, I am sure that Americas new policy of nonintervention will gradually build a sense of go...

Oh, wait the hands off approach in Egypt was purely a practical matter and when a softer target presented itself the US cruise missile'd the shiat out of it so a pack of genocidal tribal warbands could seize power?

Well, that makes an equal amount of sense as "they hate us for our freedom"

Seriously, wtf does that mean? Bin Laden's followers want to bring death to Americans because we like to say that we value civil liberties (including freedom of religion)? Yeah... I'm sure that's what they're so pissed off about.

pdee:Its their money. Its theirs to spend how they choose. Unless you think we should go over there in force to change their government to suite you. And its still not our fault that the money stays at the top. If I buy an product its not my fault the CEO makes 500 times more money than the guy sweeping the floor.

Translation:Our money does not make them poor.

you are right, it's not our fault! we just give them our money then it's their to do with what they please, we are just innocent little angels here, we can't make the money we spend be used appropriately as a matter of fact, we are forced to deal with the bad guys, we didn't have any control over anything once we let go that money!

& by the way you're a lousy capitalist if you think your money has no influence.

I stand by this comment

intelligent comment belowThey hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

Isitoveryet:pdee: Its their money. Its theirs to spend how they choose. Unless you think we should go over there in force to change their government to suite you. And its still not our fault that the money stays at the top. If I buy an product its not my fault the CEO makes 500 times more money than the guy sweeping the floor.

Translation:Our money does not make them poor.

you are right, it's not our fault! we just give them our money then it's their to do with what they please, we are just innocent little angels here, we can't make the money we spend be used appropriately as a matter of fact, we are forced to deal with the bad guys, we didn't have any control over anything once we let go that money!

& by the way you're a lousy capitalist if you think your money has no influence.

I stand by this comment

intelligent comment belowThey hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

So if we did not give them money they would all be rich? If not for our dirty money they would all be peaceful secular progressives? Without oil money they would have long ago switched to democracies and treated their women as equals?

Giving some people money does not make other people poor! Giving 1 person money does not put another person in poverty.

intelligent comment belowThey hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

So if we did not give them money they would all be rich? Tard? If not for our dirty money they would all be peaceful secular progressives? of course not Without oil money they would have long ago switched to democracies and treated their women as equals? Facepalm

Giving some people money does not make other people poor! True Giving 1 person money does not put another person in poverty. Dept of Redundant Redundancies

Are you so dense you can not understand that? messes pdee's hair

we are enablers, we are perpetuates. we ultimately (well as much as the percent of foreign monies we pump into their economies) have the first say, that is, are we bettering these peoples society or are we making it worse? if yes better proceed, if no worse, maybe we should rethink our role in this transaction.

you are correct in what you are saying but you are leaving a huge gap in the conversation. intentionally? perhaps.

malaktaus:They don't really hate us at all, they hate the image of us they have created. I've seen several Muslims comment on articles about the protests, and a common statement is some variation of "if America can punish people for insulting other religions, especially Judaism, these people should be punished for insulting Islam." Never mind that this statement is basically delusional, never mind the fact that we have neo-Nazis in this country who openly call for another Holocaust against the Jews and nothing is done to them as long as it remains just talk.

Ultimately I agree with what you are saying here, but its not completely delusional. The issue isn't just America, it is the "west", and much in the same way that many folks on the hawkish right throw norther africans, turks, kurdish, arabs, pursians, etc in to one big pot, and try to treat them the same; America gets tossed in the same pot as the west(specifically Europe) there. The reality is in Europe antisemitism and holocaust denial are meet with the force of law in some countries. I know we are not Europe, but if you have the ignore the differences folks in this country, you know it is going to be vastly worse in countries with less institutional education.

intelligent comment belowThey hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

So if we did not give them money they would all be rich? Tard? If not for our dirty money they would all be peaceful secular progressives? of course not Without oil money they would have long ago switched to democracies and treated their women as equals? Facepalm

Giving some people money does not make other people poor! True Giving 1 person money does not put another person in poverty. Dept of Redundant Redundancies

Are you so dense you can not understand that? messes pdee's hair

we are enablers, we are perpetuates. we ultimately (well as much as the percent of foreign monies we pump into their economies) have the first say, that is, are we bettering these peoples society or are we making it worse? if yes better proceed, if no worse, maybe we should rethink our role in this transaction.

you are correct in what you are saying but you are leaving a huge gap in the conversation. intentionally? perhaps.

You still take the absurd position that our money makes them poor.

If we did not buy their oil someone else would. If no one bought their oil do you believe they would be better off? Without oil revenues you think their standard of living would increase?

You can easily find many thing to criticize about the west's foreign policies toward the meddle east but at least leave off the insane proposition that our money makes them poor.

The shaw was supported by the US government up until he was ousted in 1979, by the same people running the iranian govenrment today. If you don't think people in power will remind the people of how they took their country back from their evil oppressors, you will never understand the arc of history. So yes, specifically in Iran, that is still a big farking deal.

pdee:You still take the absurd position that our money makes them poor.

If we did not buy their oil someone else would. If no one bought their oil do you believe they would be better off? Without oil revenues you think their standard of living would increase?

You can easily find many thing to criticize about the west's foreign policies toward the meddle east but at least leave off the insane proposition that our money makes them poor.

You make it sound as if the money we spend for oil goes right back to the people! That would be socialism and that is bad, so keep out of the people's hands..... Have they earned it!? NO! They just sit on land that happens to have natural resources, big deal! Keep the money in the hands of the rulers and the multinational companies, that's the american way.

Huggermugger:As someone who grew up in the Middle East the daughter of a US diplomat (who was an Arabist), in several countries carved up from the former Ottoman Empire, I think that we should really stop invoking all of that stuff.

Why? the same people with the guns are in power

The citizens are still illiterate while the rulers swim in money

The area is backwards because that's how the oil money flows to the top, and it makes the west happy so they can get their cheap subsidized oil

Huggermugger:The Middle East has had more than enough home-grown nationalistic heroes in every country since they were oppressed by the Ottomans and the colonial powers

tinderboxer:The shaw was supported by the US government up until he was ousted in 1979, by the same people running the iranian govenrment today. If you don't think people in power will remind the people of how they took their country back from their evil oppressors, you will never understand the arc of history. So yes, specifically in Iran, that is still a big farking deal.

The conservatives can't stop circle jerking themselves over Reagan who came into power in the 1980's

This idiot trying to claim 30 years ago was a long time and other idiotic false equivalencies and strawmen is wasting all our time.

pdee:Isitoveryet: pdee: Its their money. Its theirs to spend how they choose. Unless you think we should go over there in force to change their government to suite you. And its still not our fault that the money stays at the top. If I buy an product its not my fault the CEO makes 500 times more money than the guy sweeping the floor.

Translation:Our money does not make them poor.

you are right, it's not our fault! we just give them our money then it's their to do with what they please, we are just innocent little angels here, we can't make the money we spend be used appropriately as a matter of fact, we are forced to deal with the bad guys, we didn't have any control over anything once we let go that money!

& by the way you're a lousy capitalist if you think your money has no influence.

I stand by this comment

intelligent comment belowThey hate you because your oil money corrupts their countries and causes such huge poverty and ignorance of the population.

So if we did not give them money they would all be rich? If not for our dirty money they would all be peaceful secular progressives? Without oil money they would have long ago switched to democracies and treated their women as equals?

Giving some people money does not make other people poor! Giving 1 person money does not put another person in poverty.

Are you so dense you can not understand that?

The money we give dictators for foreign aid goes three places, in this order:1. To the dictator's immediate cronies to ensure their continued support2. To the military, to ensure they don't raise a coup against the dictator3. To the dictator's overseas bank accounts.

Any money left over--and you can see there is none--goes to helping the populace. In exchange for our foreign aid, the dictator agrees to whatever policies the aid provider requires--and it's almost never humanitarian purposes. We supported Samuel Doe because he agreed to let us use Liberia as a staging port against the Soviets and so he'd license our leaky oil tankers out of his country to avoid US regulation. We supported Mobutu Sese Seko because he agreed to fight the Angolan communists in the jungles of Zaire and save us the trouble. We supported Saddam Hussein when he agreed to fight Iran in the 80's, and agreed to support the Shah in Iran in the 60's because Mossadegh was too "populist" for the CIA's palate at the time. We installed Pinochet in Chile after making sure the "populist" democratically elected Allende was assassinated. Saddam, the Shah and Pinochet all got airdrops of cash from Uncle Sam for their agreeable stance.

It goes on and on. Sending foreign aid to dictators and totalitarian countries only ensures that they stay in power, spend next to nothing on their people, and can flee the inevitable rebellion or coup with fat Cayman Islands accounts. Now and then, you get a more benign dictator, like Trujillo in Santo Domingo, who uses some of his own cut after he pays off the army and his buddies, to do a few nice things for the people; but they never last. Someone like Sgt. Doe always climbs the back wall and kills them.

So yeah, I'm sorry, giving money to one person can make a hell of a lot of people poor, and also hate the nation that gives their dictator all his cash.

Gyrfalcon:We supported Samuel Doe because he agreed to let us use Liberia as a staging port against the Soviets and so he'd license our leaky oil tankers out of his country to avoid US regulation. We supported Mobutu Sese Seko because he agreed to fight the Angolan communists in the jungles of Zaire and save us the trouble. We supported Saddam Hussein when he agreed to fight Iran in the 80's, and agreed to support the Shah in Iran in the 60's because Mossadegh was too "populist" for the CIA's palate at the time. We installed Pinochet in Chile after making sure the "populist" democratically elected Allende was assassinated. Saddam, the Shah and Pinochet all got airdrops of cash from Uncle Sam for their agreeable stance.