Crossing the border with Blue Jays beat reporter Jordan Bastian.

Towers still standing?

"At this point we intend to bring him back," Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi told the paper. "We need all the pitching that we can get. We plan on Towers being here."

Towers, who made $2.9 million last season in the final year of the two-year contract he signed after ’05, is eligible for arbitration this winter. So, he could garner around $3 million. Considering the options on the free-agent market, Ricciardi is content with Towers as his fifth starter at that price.

"For the fifth spot in a rotation, for $3-million bucks, that’s what starters are going for," Ricciardi said. "Just look at the numbers and do the math."

Towers’ numbers have been the issue, though. Even so, it looks like Towers will once again be in the mix for the fifth spot, along with Jesse Litsch, Casey Janssen and Gus Chacin (if healthy). The Jays still have some interest in Matt Clement, but only if it’s with an inexpensive contract.

The Jays have also reached out to free-agent catcher Michael Barrett, but his status as a Type A free agent may make Toronto hesitant to sign him. If they signed Barrett, the Jays would have to give up a first-round pick, which the club doesn’t want to do. Meanwhile, the Jays are still talking to Sal Fasano about being their backup to Gregg Zaun.

Yesterday, David Purcey was added to Toronto’s 40-man roster. This was just a paperwork move, but it does protect Purcey for the upcoming Rule 5 Draft, which will be held at the Winter Meetings. To make room on the roster, the Jays designated outfielder Cody Haerther for assignment.

So, there’s some baseball news for you guys to chew on. I’m going to go back to grieving over Michigan State basketball’s tough loss to UCLA. Ah well, at least the Spartans ballers are giving me something to root for these days. The Bulls are just killing me and the Bears have been thoroughly disappointing.

It really irritates me that players don’t get pay cuts… Towers is not worth 3 million per! He is worth 1.5m maybe. That being said I would rather have him in the 5th spot to start the year over Litsch who I see in AAA this year and in the rotation come 09. Litsch pitched fantastic last year but being so young he could use another year in the minors to develope and get stronger.

The question is what do you do with Towers once he struggles? He is terrible in the pen since his first inning is always his worst and at 3mil that’s a little expensive to be sent down to AAA.

I would prefer to see Jansen in the 5th spot over anyone the Jays are looking at. Especially with Ryan hopefully returning at full strength, the pen is deep enough without Jansen.

Forget Clement, Towers or any other waste of money and use it on a catcher!!!

Towers, in my view, is being signed for backup and trade bait. If they didn’t offer him a contract, they’d simply release him without getting anything in return. If they sign him for 1 year at 3 mill or less, he likely has trade value to someone for somebody in return-particulary this year when the free agent market has little to offer for starters..

As much as I dislike the guy, he’s probably as good as an alternative for reclamation projects as anyone else.

However, I see the depth chart for the 5th starter as follows:

Litsch

Purcey

Chacin

Towers

If Ryan comes back strong and healthy then Janssen gets added to the mix which also makes Chacin and Towers both trade bait.

My personal preference is Purcey, because he’s a power lefty with McGowan type stuff from the left side and we need a lefty in the rotation. However, I think even Purcey has to take the job away from Litsch.

The kid pitched remarkably for us in September and has earned the right for the spot to start the season.

I’m reading (both from the media and you guys) that the jays aren’t interested in Barrett because he’s a type A free agent. My question is what makes a guy a type a free agent? especially a guy who’s supposed to be a backup catcher, wouldn’t that make it a tough situation for him (to have to give up a 1st round draft pick to sign him)?

I think a type A free agent means that he is past his arbitration years.
As far as pitching goes, I still don’t know why they are in love with Towers. I suppose if he doesn’t make the rotation, he would still be worth something on the trade market. He could be a #3 guy for KC or sombody. I would sooner see Chacin as #5, because he seems to know how to win games, injuries or not. Litsch and Purcey deserve another season in the minors, and would add a lot of depth in case of injuries.

It took my breath away. Sure, Towers might have “some” value (as any type of pitching does these days), but not at the salary that he would garner through arbitration! I thoroughly doubt that he will be challenging for that 5th spot. In my estimation, he’s got to climb ahead of Litsch, Janssen, and Chacin (plus all those rumors about Purcey being ready, even though they just added him to the 40-man so he’s protected from the rule 5). Even if he does beat out the other 3, he won’t hold that spot for very long, making him an expensive long man once again.

On a side note, it was a small caveat, but Scott Podsednik was granted his release by the Chisox. I think JP should be ALL OVER THAT. It’s a great fit since we need a leadoff-hitting LF. Then we may not even have to platoon with Reed!Imagine the speed in the OF with Pods, VW, & Rios, not to mention the speed on the basepaths!

Though this is not considered a strong market, 47 free agents are classified as Type A — which means they rank in the top 30 percent of players in their position groups. Teams that lose a Type A free agent are compensated with two draft picks. Teams that lose a Type B free agent — one of the 45 players ranked from 31-50 percent at his position — get one pick in return.

To be honest I thought Towers fit the long relief role pretty well. It doesnt hurt having him come in and eat up innings when the Jays are down 5+ runs in a game with no pressure. Also he could spot start if one of our regulars goes down for a start or two, instead of stretching out a guy like Janssen or recalling someone from the Minors. He would be nothing more than the 12th pitcher on the roster, and if we find we dont need him later in the year, a National League team may take a chance on him.

I am sorry, but I just cannot see the justification for keeping Towers,It was like I done my bit , got my money , don’t need to try anymore,my heart was in my mouth every time he took the mound last year,unless we were already in a losing situation when it did not matter,,Ian

How does Purcey in some of your minds get thrown to the front of your 5th starter predictions??? He has done nothing except for this years AFL showing. You take the AFL accomplishments out and he hasn’t even done enough to crack the AAA roster. My 5th starter depth chart:

Jansen

Free agent

Towers

Litsch

Chacin

Banks

Purcey

Taubenheim

I wouldn’t sign Towers as there HAS to be a free agent out there that is cheaper and more effective than Towers.

Purcey has always had the stuff-a 96 mph fastball and a devastating cureball. What he didn’t have was good control.

He flew through the lower minors, but struggled at AAA as a result-until someone finally figured out the reason for the poor control.

Purcey had a mechanical problem-excessive head movement in his delivery. He was sent down to AA to solve the problem and solved it in the latter part of 2006. If you look at his stats before his injury in 2007-he was lights out. His era was well under 1.00 and his K to walk ratio was exceptional-unlike what it had been in the past.

Then he got injured, tried to pitch through it in 3-4 starts and got bombed-which is why his era jumped.

The Purcey seen in the AFL is the real deal-and you will see that in AAA this year, where I expect he’ll go. But, he’s got phenomenal stuff and he will be a factor with The Jays at some point this year. Remember-you heard it hear first.

To put guys like Towers, Chacin and Banks who all throw batting practise fastballs ahead of him in a depth chart, only shows you’re not that familiar with Purcey’s capabilites. Frankly, we should trade Towers, Chacin and Banks if we can.

For a couple of years, I kept saying McGowan was going to be a front of the rotation type pitcher-few believed me, but now he’s starting to show the promise. Purcey has the same capability-maybe even better for us since both Boston and New York are weaker against a lefty.

I also remember a lot of Jays fans never did believe in another pitcher who got sent all the way down to single A to sort out mechanical issues. I guess it’s a good think someone believed in him, or Roy Halliday would be pitching for someone else.

Agreed Purcey has the potential no question… But for this upcoming season he is far down the list on 5th starter status. If he sees action in the bigs this year it is due to lots of injuries infront of him. They see a left handed Mcgowan in him and don’t want to try and rush him the way they tried with Mcgowan. Jansen has to be the leader for the 5th spot based on last year, him being a natural starter and also based on stuff. Agreed… Trade Chacin for anything and don’t sign Towers. Oh and they will get a free agent to push for the 5th spot… You almost have to incase Ryan isn’t ready.

I think the 5th spot depends a bit on whether Bo is ready to answer the call. If Accardo has to close for a while, they will need Jansen in the pen. In that case, Chacin would be my choice for the 5th guy, and maybe with his history of arm problems, the extra rest would help. If Bo is OK, which seems likely, I don’t think Jansen will be denied the 5th spot, and Chacin would be a very good long reliever coming out of the pen. I would like to see Litsch and Purcey get some more time in the minors, and trade Towers for a draft pick or something to get rid of his salary. The depth chart as I see it now would be: Jansen, Chacin, free agent?, Litsch, Towers, Purcey. I just hope if Towers pitches well enough in Spring Training to make the squad that he doesn’t then go down in flames like he did last year.

Hey, you guys are forgetting about Litsch. In his last 3 starts against Boston, New York and Tampa Bay, he went 20.1 innings and only gave up 3 runs. Those last two starts in New York and Boston proved the kids grit.

Except for 3 starts in which he was trying to power the ball and lost sink, he was a very consistant starter. He ended up with an era under 4.0 which is better than Chacin has ever had, and better than Banks in AAA, or Towers at any level.

Janssen will not start, because there’s no way Ryan will be ready at the start of the season regardless of what you hear from the Jays. It normally takes 12-14 months to come back from TJ surgury, so I don’t expect Ryan to be healthy until June.

I also like Taubenheim-who performed very well in AA after getting demoted from AAA-so he might also be a possibility.

Forget about any free agents, the only ones out there are all used up-and we’d likley be commtted to them for 2-3 years. We have better guys in the minors with Purcey and Taubenheim. The free agents out there are like Towers, Banks and Chacin and we already have a surplus of those types.

Haven’t forgot about Litsch he is my main man down in AAA and waiting for AJ to get hurt. Having Jansen move into the 5th spot for this year would show that JP feels that AJ is gone after this year utilizing his opt out clause. If that happens a rotation of Halladay, Mcgowan, Marcum or Jansen and Litsch might be pretty good come 09 assuming the pithcers continue progressing like they have been.

If you stretch Jansen out over the winter and Ryan isn’t ready you can simply pop Jansen back into the pen where he would be more than strong enough. When Ryan joins the team in late May/early June you could move Jansen back into the rotation if someone is struggling (Towers). If Ryan starts with the team out of spring traing Jansen is in the rotation with ease do to his off season program. Jansen had too good of a year to be a 7th inning guy this year, and with a pen of Ryan, Accardo, Downs, League (returning too form I hope) and Wolfe plus others you are plenty strong without Jansen.

Well we do agree on one thing, you can never have enough pitching. They are stretching Janssen over the winter just in case. But, I still think Litsch gets the first shot regardless, and I’d still rank Purcey over any of the options including Litsch; but I think Litsch deserves the shot because of how he pitched this year.

I also would like to see a combo of Ryan, Accardo, Downs, League, Wolfe, Janssen, and then possibly Frasor and either Tallet or Romero in the pen.

I’d keep Jannsen, League and Accardo as our 7-8th inning guys, so we have at least one fresh each night. If we’re going to serious contend, we need that in order to ensure none of them get overused. If Frasor comes back to the form he’s capable of, we could then have 2 of the 4 go one night and the other two the following.

Serious contenders have that depth in the pen, and if we are to seriously contend, we need it too.

I would love nothing more than to see Purcey have a breakout year in AAA next year, but thats the thing, he is destined for AAA even if he does have a great spring.
How is Taubenheim ahead of Chacin?.. Im pretty sure we have saw the last of him.

If Chacin has a solid spring I would put him in our 5th spot. A lefty in the rotation would be usefull. Janssen was effective out of the pen, and if aint broke dont fix it, we could always stretch him out later in the year if need be.

The leading candidates for the 5th spot are

Litsch

Chacin

and Janssen.

Towers, very outside chance and if they jays keep him probably will be a long releif guy.

If they sign a fee agent you can throw him in there too, and anyone else is not even worth mentioning.

I agree with starting Janssen in the bullpen. As much as he is one of my favourite players on the Jays, denny said it right, If it aint broke, dont fix it. Im wondering what happened to the talk of Matt Clement? the guy has the right numbers for a 5th spot starter, and sure, even if we have to sign him for 2 or 3 years, AJ is definetly gonna get hurt, or possibly opt out (for 09), then we HAVE to start at least two of the options we have now. I think we Ricciardi should plan for the injury we all know is coming and sign clement. I really cant understand why anyone still supports Towers. Hes proven that he cant pitch in any situation except the worst, and Gibby (as dumb as he is) clearly has no faith in Towers. So why sign someone who will only pitch every 19 days??

I think any long term future Chacin had with the Jays went out the window when he was charged with DUI this spring. If he makes it here this year, it will only be until Purcey replaces him. Once Ryan comes back Chacin becomes trade bait. The left handed depth chart behind Purcey includes both Rickie Romero and Cecil Brett-both highly thought of prospects and both a lot better than Chacin.

I will make a prediction, though. Regardless of who starts the season as our 5th starter, whenever Purcey is ready-he becomes the guy-and it will be much sooner than any of us think. He has at least as high of an upside as McGowan and we need a strong lefty to have a chance to win.

Taubenheim was sent down to AA from Syracuse to sort things out-it worked. In his

5 starts there his era wa 2.01 and the BA against was .193-so don’t write him off yet-he’ll start in AAA.

Well, Josh Towers just cost us some more. As a result of Towers being on the 40 man roster Lee Gronkiewicz was left off. Now one could also question why Tracy Thorpe and Jean Marchi were kept on the roster and not Gronkiewicz, who had a better era than either of the 3.

Gronkiewicz, was up last year from AAA, went 4 innings and had an era of 2.25. In AA/AAA, his era was 2.41.

Chacin ***** and I can’t stand watching games when he starts… His pace is ridiculously slow!!! Trade pizza face I mean Chacin for anything as his stuff and personality aren’t big league material. I’m thinking our AAA rotation will be excellent this year and should be a good battle for who will be called up once AJ has a hang nail.

Wouldn’t it be pretty exciting if we got Barrett ? He’s a good young catcher with more pop then Zaun, not sure how his throwing arm is.

I thought i was done wasting my money to watch Towers lose.

Oh well. Hopefully we can trade him once he gets some value.

What do people think of the trade market for the Jays ??? Would it make sense to trade Accardo while his value is highest comming off a season as a proven closer ? especially since the Brewers lost Cordero and need a closer bad ? They do have JJ Hardy at short stop.

Just wondering if people think the Jays might get creative especially since Jansen is prob gonna be in the Pen anyways.

Why would they give up draft picks for a catcher that is just going to clog up the system for all the up and comeing catchers?!? Thigpen and Diaz will be a great one two punch in the future. There immedidate need is a back up catcher that can throw and is cheap with a short contract.

I don’t know about anyone else, but I have some concerns about what Jordan wrote in his mail bag in regards to Towers, which is likely the current Blue Jays thinking.

Jordan states Towers is likely not tradeable, and if he doesn’t fill the 5th role spot he’d likely fill the long relief role. I have no problem with him potentially filling the 5th stating spot if everyone else is injured. However if he doesnt make it dump him.

My take is the bullpen currently stacks up as:

Ryan

League

Accardo

Janssen

Downs

Wolfe

Frasor

In addition, there’s Tallet and Davis Romero, both lefties sitting in the wings.

So who goes to make room for Towers? If they don’t think they can trade him, why sign him in the first place?

If we non-tender him, I believe we get a draft choice from the team who signs him-maybe that’s all he’s worth-and it certainly is more palatable than signing him and having to watch him, while one of the more capable relievers gets sent down.

In my opinion Litsch will have to pick up right where he left off to be considered for the 5th spot. His age is the only thing not in his favour as the Jays have a big fear of rushing young talent.

If Litsch pitches great in the spring and Jansen gets moved back to the pen then yes Litsch will be the 5th starter. What happens when Jansen has a great spring as well and Ryan breaks with the team? You can’t waste Jansen in a 6th or 7th inning role when he is a projected starter for his career.

If I’m running the show I trade Chacin and dump Towers. Jansen breaks in the rotation and Litsch is the first call up. Actually I sign Towers for depth since it’s not my money. LOL

Regardless of what The Jays say, Ryan will not be ready by opening day. Recovery from Tommy John Surgury takes 12-14 months-so I don’t expect him back until June.

In order to contend we need depth in both starters and the pen. For the 5th, 6th and 7th starters I see:

Litsch

David Purcey

Chacin

Towers

I really have no problem if they keep both Chacin and Towers-as long as they keep them in AAA as back up. Where I have difficulty-particulary with Towers, is if they sign him for 3 mill and then feel polical pressure to keep him up here-like they did last year-and take up a valuable spot in the pen.

I also like the idea of having Janssen, Accardo and League all mix it up for the 7-8th inning. If we seriously contend, we should have two sets of short guys, Like League/Accardo and Janssen/Frasor. One team pitches one night and the other the next, keeping them all fresh for the stretch run in September.

Janssen will get his chance to start-but if all are healthy-it will be 2009 not 2008.

I think what the Jays are really missing in the bullpen is a situational lefty other than Scotty Downs. Downs is awesome and all, but he can’t pitch every single game. And Tallet really doesn’t cut it because his success with runners on seems, well, unsuccessful.

Sure, the Jays will have another lefty when Ryan comes back, but he’s not coming in in the seventh to pitch to one batter.

I guess there’s Purcey and Romero in the minors, but it seems like management’s plan with those guys is to let them really take their time in AAA or AA.

What do you good folks think? Think JP will try and pick a lefty up for the bullpen?

hem.gold i believe the jays were willing to speak to Kennedy about being a situational lefty. Unfortunately he passed away. I don’t know if they’ll look at other guys for the job, or if they’ll be content with Downs and Tallet.

I’m not so sure about Davis Romero. He’s only pitched in seven major league games in his entire career, so I’m not sure he’s a lock for anything.

Also, I’d say League is still a question mark. He looked better as the season progressed, but still not great. He’s going to have to have a very impressive spring in order to crack the 25 man roster. But who knows, maybe he’ll be this year’s Jeremy Accardo. Heading into the spring in 2006, people were saying Accardo was going to get cut from the Jays entirely….

Well we have a small glut with starters as well so Ryan either has to make it as a reliever or get sent down. lol

You’re right about Tommy John-I can’t believe Riccardi is trying to convince fans that Ryan will be ready by spring training-sort of reminds me of Ryan’s initial injury diagnosis of a back problem. They’d better not rush him back, if they do, he could be done forever.

Actually the pitching surplus will be bigger next year than this coming one. I expect Purcey, Rickie Romero and Cecil Brett to be knocking on the door. It’ll be different having a glut of left handed power starters, won’t it. But I think Purcey makes it this year.

A.J. Burnett took 14 months to return after Tommy John surgury which he had in 2003. Since he’s been with us, he’s been on the DL two to three times as a result of issues relating to the surgury. Some guys take up to 18 months to recover.

So Ryan went under the knife May 10th and JP expects him back by February-9 months.

I think Mr. Rogers should sniff what JP is smoking these days. On the other hand maybe it’s a good thing we have a glut of relievers.

Major League Baseball pitchers who undergo “Tommy John surgery” to repair a ruptured ligament in the elbow will usually recover completely from the operation, pitching just as well as they did before the injury, a new study shows.

Of 68 Major League Baseball pitchers who underwent the surgery between 1998 and 2003, most (82 percent) returned to play within an average of 18.5 months post-surgery with no change in average earned run average or walks or hits per innings pitched, Dr. Brett W. Gibson of the Penn Sports Medicine Center in Philadelphia and colleagues found.

I agree that having Ryan in Spring Training is optimistic unless there have been vast improvements in surgical and rehab techniques. I would also plan my bullpen as if League was not going to break camp with the club either. In that case, you will need Jansen in the pen.
If Litsch carries on like he did last year, the #5 spot is his to lose, which leaves Chacin and Towers.

I like Chacin as a long reliever, mainly because he is at his best the first time through the order, and he knows how to win ball games.

As for Towers, I don’t think he has a place on the team, but if you let him walk, you get nothing. There are a lot of teams out there who are worse off for pitching than we are, who would give up a good position prospect for a Towers or the like.

I like that plan. So at the start of the season the bullpen stacks ups as

Accardo

League

Janssen

Downs

Wolfe

Chacin

Frasor

Tallet and Romero sent down to AAA. I think League will be ready-he moved his winter home from Hawaii to Florida so I think he’s working out in Dundedin all winter and that hopefully should have him ready to go. If not, either Tallet or Romero can be added.

Sign Towers and keep him in AAA until Ryan comes back. When that happens trade both Chacin and Towers, because Purcey and Rickie Romero should represent options at that point.

Does it really make sense to sign Towers for 3-4 million so he can pitch in AAA? I’m really not getting why the Jays are even contemplating keeping this guy. Let him loose so he can get a fresh start somewhere else….

I don’t even think we have to wait for Ryan to look for a trade. If one of our starters goes down, we would still have Jansen, and Chacin stretched out, plus Romero, Purcey and Taubenheim in AAA. We could even get a look at Ryan Houston if a spot in the pen opens up. I wouldn’t trade Chacin at this point, though. He certainly is a long way from making $3 mil/year, and you can’t have enough pitching. Even if Gus has to sit in AAA for a while, id doesn’t kill us financially.

If we don’t offer Towers a contract by December 12th he becomes a non-tendered free agent and we get a draft pick when he signs elsewhere. Why Riccardi doesn’t go that direction is beyond me. By the way both Kevin Cash and David Bush fit into the same category.

gnorman-you’re right-I forgot about Ty who also adds depth in the starters depth chart.

I have some concerns when JP says he might look for a trade for a reclamation type pitcher. I do realize you can never have enough, and if he trades Towers or Banks-no problem. But it’s looking like we might have a glut already-so I hope he doesn’t trade for someone like Oka and give up one of our real prospects like Purcey, Romero, Cecil, Ty, or some of the other fine pitching talent we have in the lower minors.

If he’s so ancious to do a trade-do a deal with Boston for Jed Lowrie. Too bad we let Boston just simply sign Lee Gronkiewicz without getting anything in return. He could have been packaged with Lind and possibly have done that deal. Of course, that means you can’t be asleep at the switch and simply let Boston walk in and sign your prospects like they did with Gronkiewicz.

My thinking on what J.P is thinking is… Towers is a reclamation project with the hope he can turn it around and get back to his 05 numbers. Granted he isn’t a typical project “good stuff coming off and injury” type guy like Clement but 5th starters fall in the 3-4mil range and would be a great 5th guy with his past numbers.

I don’t buy the fact that Litsch is major league ready right now… Whos to say his 90’s tops fastball doesn’t get lit up next year and we don’t have a guy to turn too??? We need depth period. from anyone, since we are bound to have injuries or stuggles.

Well, Tom Glavine doesn’t get it past 90 either and he’s won over 300 games. Sinker ball pitchers like Glavine and Litsch don’t need to throw hard-they just get a lot of ground ball outs.

Towers on the other hand only gets it to 86 or 88 and it’s flat with very little movement. That’s why, unless Towers has absolutely perfect control and stripes the corners he gets lit up-in a hurry.

With Litsch as most sinker ball guys-there’s more room for error than there is with a guy like Towers.

The only time Litsch gets lit up is when he tries to over throw it (just like Glavine)-and loses the sinking action-He went through that spell for 3 games and gave up 14 runs in 10 innings-which is what got his era up to 3.81.

The kid proved himself, when he started in NY and Boston in September, went 14.1 innings against two of the best hitting lineups in baseball and only gave up 2 runs in those two games.

Towers career era over 7 years in the bigs is 4.96, 2005 was his career year-anyone expecting that 2005 performance again is dreaming cause it isn’t going to happen.

There is depth behind Litsch-Purcey, Chacin and Taubenheim, and behind them Romero. I’d also prefer Banks over Towers-so count it 5 behind the kid.

One other important point. This year they’re contemplating paying Towers $3 million, Litsch will likely be at sub 400K.

Litsch isn’t Glavine and to compare the two is a little ridiculous. Glavine makes his living off his changeup without that pitch he would have lasted 1 year maybe. Tust me I hope more than anyone that Litsch turns into a right handed Glavine but its a little too early in his carreer to make those claims. You can never have enough pitching depth and hopefully someone somewhere is interested in Towers for a potential trade down the line

one must question JP’s motives, is he trying to build a team of losers,keeping towers is Madness but then Abner & JP are not exactly Towers of strength either , got to be one of the weakest pairings in the league
Litsch,

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