Possible errata and typo: why on Earth would Listening be based on Luck, whereas Searching and Spotting is based on Intelligence?! Luck seems to be quite prone to go down and up, would this mean that a character becomes deaf or improve his skill at listening? Even admitting that Listening is mostly dependent on luck, why not other perception tasks?
Seeing that Intelligence governs perception-type tasks of searching and spotting, it would seem only fitting that Listening falls under Intelligence.
My suggestion: get rid of Luck as a stat to base Skills on; already too many things depend on Luck. And there is nothing skillful in being lucky! (if not, this is the first thing I am going to houserule.)

Regarding perception type checks, this is also based on the specific situation. To me, a passive Listen or even Spot check ought to be based on Luck, but actively searching or trying to hear something is better left to Intelligence. DCC skills are supposed to be pretty loose, so if you as a judge think something should play differently, then you're right. In fact, it's probably best to use common sense and the description of PC actions before calling for a skill check at all.

shadewest wrote:Regarding perception type checks, this is also based on the specific situation. To me, a passive Listen or even Spot check ought to be based on Luck, but actively searching or trying to hear something is better left to Intelligence. DCC skills are supposed to be pretty loose, so if you as a judge think something should play differently, then you're right. In fact, it's probably best to use common sense and the description of PC actions before calling for a skill check at all.

That's fine, to a point. Also in light of the fact that the Luck bonuses are "frozen" after character creation (I missed this bit) it might still be best to fold ALL perception types under Luck. So Search goes under Intelligence, and Spot and Listening go under Luck. I see no reason why two senses should be governed by two different stats.

shadewest wrote:Regarding perception type checks, this is also based on the specific situation. To me, a passive Listen or even Spot check ought to be based on Luck, but actively searching or trying to hear something is better left to Intelligence. DCC skills are supposed to be pretty loose, so if you as a judge think something should play differently, then you're right. In fact, it's probably best to use common sense and the description of PC actions before calling for a skill check at all.

That's fine, to a point. Also in light of the fact that the Luck bonuses are "frozen" after character creation (I missed this bit) it might still be best to fold ALL perception types under Luck. So Search goes under Intelligence, and Spot and Listening go under Luck. I see no reason why two senses should be governed by two different stats.

Not trying to sound flippant, but the longer I played this game, the less I used any perception-related checks. Early on the above logic was exactly the kind of thought process I was engaged in. And early on, I called for more checks. As the game evolved I started challenging players more on how to define their characters' interaction with the environment. "You search the chest? What actions exactly does that entail?" "You scan the cavern? Where exactly do you look?" And so on. If they say they tap the bottom of the chest to listen for hollow spots, or otherwise specifically examine the bottom, then they find the secret compartment; otherwise, they don't -- no check needed. If they say they specifically scan the ceiling of the cavern, or look for odd shadows on the ground, then they spot the bat-creatures clinging to the roof; otherwise, they don't -- no check needed. After a while I ended up making perception checks only very rarely, and I often would use Luck just because...well, I don't know, it seemed most appropriate. Next time you play, ask yourself "is a check the best method? or should we role-play this?" every time you roll for Spot or Search or Listen...and it may change the way you use the skill system. It was a 3E habit I had to work to break. And getting back to the question above, there could be times when Intelligence is most appropriate as a modifier, and other times where it really is a case of sheer luck.

And that's word of Goodman on the topic! Although, just to add my own little wrinkle, Luck modifiers can indeed change. Lucky roll is locked (ie birth augur ) and the warriors lucky weapon. That is, of course, unless you as judge rule differently

Not to sound flippant, too; but while not having to roll anything at all is perfectly fine (I don't come from a 3e background, so I don't have any habit to break; my go-to D&D is Mentzer D&D), I am simply speaking about what is written in the book, and Joseph hasn't answered why two different senses are dealt with with two different attributes; it goes straight in the face of keeping things simple and straightforward. Unless it's to be understood that those are not the only way to address perception, and in some other instances spot might be handled by Luck and Listening by Intelligence. If this is the case, it should be clarified in the book, too.

Any chance this can be made sticky an the actual errata collected in the first post of the thread? It almost disappeared off the front page of the collected DCC forum, and it'd save folks having to wade through rules debates/discussion.

20' speed for halflings is only declared in the sections on armor (page 72) and movement (77); this should be included with demi-humans at level 0 (21) and halfling class (60) for consistency with the dwarf.