Forum: Writing Mary Sue: the Mother of Challenges

Discussing: Boromir

Boromir

Hmm... Is there any particular reason no one has brought up Boromir yet? I can obviously see the difficulties in writing a Boromir romance - Tolkien has pretty much said that Boromir's more of a fighter than a lover - but I don't think it's completely unreasonable to say that he hasn't had romantic entanglements before he set off to the quest. Even if he wasn't terribly interested in women, surely there were women interested in him?

Anyone care to take this one on? Bonus points for not making it all angst-y and death-y. (Been looking everywhere for a happy!Boromir fic).

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An excellent idea, to nudge her. And while we're at it [nudge nudge] I know I was evil last night, sending you that outrageous suggestion. But doesn't that just make the idea of writing a Boromir/OFC fic that much more appealing? Or one of the many other eligible males I've listed on-list?

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Does it have to be in his youth or his adulthood or any particular time in his life? Does it have to be a long term romance. I wonder if he might have had some elf noogie while he was waiting for the fellowship to embark.

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Me personally, I'd just like to see a Boromir romance that focusses more on romance and a lighter side of Boromir, than it does on his lust for the ring and his eventual death (angst angst angst!).

Long-term/short-term matters not. I'm just tired of the romances where the OFC ends up more as Boromir's psychiatrist (treating him for his addiction to the ring) than she does end up as his girlfriend.

Of course, that said, I'm still a sucker for angst. So I suppose if a well-written enough fic were to come along that doesn't exactly meet those standards, I'd probably end up reading it, too.

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Me personally, I'd just like to see a Boromir romance that focusses more on romance and a lighter side of Boromir, than it does on his lust for the ring and his eventual death (angst angst angst!).

Well, in the middle of all my most Mary-Sueish ramblings, I will admit that That Bloody Self-Insert of mine does have me falling for Boromir (or vice unrealistically versa) at the time of the Ring Quest. The trick is that *I'm* the one who's tempted by the One. Very much so. The blasted thing gets its claws into me at Bombadil's house, and being human as I am, it's damn tempting.

So, instead of the classic "Sue tries to save Boromir from the Ring", we have that one turned on its head - "Boromir tries to save Sue from the Ring". Which could be interesting, although I can't quite catch much of the plotline at this moment.

So, thoughts, ideas, should I see whether I can take TBSI off in this direction (be warned, it won't be published for at least a year or so if I do, although the first foreshadowings should start hitting the plotline on ff.net about oooh... May next year).

Meg the overwhelmed.

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I find this challenge very appealing - especially after years of trying to weed all Sue-ness out of my fic. Ah, what fun to open the door and invite her in! But I'm overwhelmed as well and already in deep doo-doo for not updating my current epic on time. So I hesitate to get into something new.

I think a Sue/Boromir fic that takes place before he leaves on the quest would be fun. That would leave room for romance, while allowing for some minor angst (what will happen to Gondor, etc.) without bringing the Ring into it. After all, Boromir had decades of life to live and, just maybe, enjoy before he ever got near the Ring! Think of all the Sue Skirt he could have chased!

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And this, Chevy, is why we want you over here, Boromirist that you are. Get that new chapter out, then lay it aside for a bit and write us something short, sweet, and with a good OFC in it who might deserve Boromir (if only he had lived).

Come, come--membership hath its obligations, including overloading on nuzgul. We're all doing it.... [Dwim eyes chapter six of S&S and chapter 26 of LDID with temerity]

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I agree that Boromir sees little non-angst, good-time fun, but I always imained him as a bit too intense for a sweet romance. I mean his dad was probably so much the task master that he never got time for the whole, "hey, there's a dance this weekend...wanna come?" But I also can't think of him as having a later romance unless it is in the white city and somewhere, there is a girlfiend that is mourning Boromir's passage. So if anyone can pull this off, I am truely very impressed. Boromir dies and so I have trouble getting past the need to angst the pants off him, even with an OFC Mary sue. (litterally)

E.W.

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I was just watching Errol Flynn's "Robin Hood" and I got bitten by a Nuzgul. There's a scene where Robin is climbing a vine to Marian's window, scaling the stone walls of Nottingham Castle, and I suddenly pictured Boromir doing that - in pursuit of the lovely Sue glimpsed at the lofty window above. Hee hee! I think a trip to Dol Amroth is in order, where he can meet the woman of his dreams and play Robin to her Marian for a few idyllic weeks...

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Is the point of this challenge to make the story *good* in literary terms? I mean, do I need to come up with a detailed plot and careful motivations for my characters? Or is it enough that Boromir gazes into Sue's lovely violet-blue eyes and falls passionately in love with her??

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"But how many people have actually approached a story with the intent of writing one? Is a well-written Mary Sue possible? What makes people write them in the first place? Find out for yourself by writing one of your own! Note: This challenge is not meant for parodies of Mary Sues, entertaining though they may be."

That's the challenge text, minus a few of the rules--check it out in "Open Challenges."

I think the point is to make a Mary Sue who defies the stereotype. Therefore, no parodies.

Sorry, Chevy. But surely there must be some entertaining (in the sense of funny) way of writing a Boromir/OFC romance. You could try to get it to double for the "Make 'em Laugh" Challenge--so long as the Sue character/OFC is one of the main characters, you're clear to go.

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Oh, I wasn't thinking of a parody! I just don't have the mental energy to get myself mired in another epic (this is NOT going to turn into the prequel to "The Captain and the King", angst and all!). I was thinking light and simple. A pleasant interlude in the life of Denethor's Heir. Not War and Peace.

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Okay, I know this conversation is almost three weeks old, but I only just found it, so it's new to me and I feel compelled to respond.

So, I'd already started writing a Boromir story with a romantic subplot long before I even knew about HASA, and I'm guessing I can't accept a challenge just because it happens to fit what I'm already writing.... And I'm not 100% sure what the definition of a Mary Sue is. Is it *merely* an OFC story? If so, then I've got a Mary Sue on my hands. If she has to be beautiful and perfect, then I don't. And if she just has to be me-in-disguise, then I guess only a competent psychotherapist would know for sure....

In any event, the romance isn't lighthearted or especially angsty (yet), no one tries to save Boromir from the Ring or become his psychiatrist, and if my OFC is a Mary Sue, I think she doesn't fit the stereotype. So, if I can accept the challenge with a story that was in progress before the challenge was made, and if my character *is* a Mary Sue, I'll accept it and continue on. Any who'd like to read the story so far can see it in the Beta section here - it's called An End To Innocence (and here I'll insert a shameless plug for comments and feedback even if I can't accept the challenge).

Thanks ever so!
-Rachel

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Although challenges are primarily here to encourage us to write new things, sometimes you'll have a fic that is a) already in progress or b) already finished that just *happens* to fit the challenge. You are certainly allowed to enter all such fics (but in the case of already finished fics, just don't be surprised when you find people coming to ask for a fic written especially for the challenge in addition).

The "Mary Sue" of this challenge is not a pejorative Sue, as it were--she is not the creature we love to hate. She is, essentially, an OFC involved as a (if not the) main character in a romance.

Anyhow, go here to see the rules of the challenge. Any further questions, just ask and ye shall get some sort of an answer... ;-)

You might also check the other threads in this forum--there's one on the theoretical aspects of a Mary Sue, which will give you an idea of what people think a Sue is, the distinction between a Sue and an OFC (or alternately, why any such division is automatically and already making an assumption--ain't theory fun?), and the general feeling of what constitutes the problem with Sues or badly written O(F)Cs. "Genre Questions" thread also has some relevent stuff in there.

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First, I'd just like to say how much I appreciate people here being so nice, and so helpful. One doesn't always find that in online communities, and it's very refreshing and very encouraging.

Second, having studied over the various thoughts on Mary Sues, and read up at different websites about what Mary Sues are, I'm still not 100% sure whether my OFC is a Mary Sue - by some definitions, yes, but not by others (though if the litmus test is that the author would be delighted for the opportunity of romance with the OFC's love interest, I'm certainly guilty of that). *sigh* However, although I think my work-in-progress fits the rules of this particular challenge, nine chapters seems too late in the story for me to feel good about entering it. I will, however, look forward to reading the other entries.

Cheers!
-Rachel

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However, although I think my work-in-progress fits the rules of this particular challenge, nine chapters seems too late in the story for me to feel good about entering it. I will, however, look forward to reading the other entries.

Sorry Rachel, you don't get off that easy. Go ahead and enter it--I entered this same challenge with a piece I had had lurking unpublished on my hard drive forever because a couple of people asked me to, so you can certainly put your almost-finished piece up. Stop worrying, and just do it--you can always succumb to another challenge later, and write a piece just for that. The more, the merrier.

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Hi, I'm new, but I saw the Mary Sue Challenge and was curious. After reading this post I am now bitten by the happy! Boromir fic. lol.

I do have a question if anyone is interested. How would the Steward and his family treat the Minas Tirith middle class if they came in contact with them?

Boromir might not have been more interested in arms than romance, but perhaps he might have found someone from a lower class attractive. I cannot imagine Denethor would let that go on for long because I'm certain he would have wanted his favorite son to marry someone considered suitable.

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I cannot imagine Denethor would let that go on for long because I'm certain he would have wanted his favorite son to marry someone considered suitable.

Then again... Boromir is a very persuasive guy. Think about it, if he can convince Denethor to let him go off chasing a dream (literally) while his country was under siege and in desperate need of warriors, then he can probably get Denethor to not be too stringent about his dating.

~Aralanthiriel

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I agree with Aralanthiriel, and I also tend to think that neither Faramir nor Boromir would worry a whole lot about class distinctions - though Boromir might moreso than Faramir, because of his pride and because of the need to produce a suitable heir. After all, it may be "only" the Stewardship, but effectively the Stewards were the kings. But this provides you with another potential conflict besides son vs. father: son vs. self *and* father.

Please note that I firmly believe Boromir would follow his heart, even if it led him to a match that his dad and the received wisdom of the ages would think unsuitable, and I don't really think he'd angst too much about it. But if you wanted him to, I think you could make a good case for it.

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Then again... Boromir is a very persuasive guy. Think about it, if he can convince Denethor to let him go off chasing a dream (literally) while his country was under siege and in desperate need of warriors, then he can probably get Denethor to not be too stringent about his dating.

Aralanthiriel,

I could smack myself! lol.

You have a very valid point and one that I tend to overlook at times. If he hadn't been very good at arguing his point than Tolkien would have written a very different book.

Maria

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I agree with Aralanthiriel, and I also tend to think that neither Faramir nor Boromir would worry a whole lot about class distinctions - though Boromir might moreso than Faramir, because of his pride and because of the need to produce a suitable heir. After all, it may be "only" the Stewardship, but effectively the Stewards were the kings. But this provides you with another potential conflict besides son vs. father: son vs. self *and* father.

I have always thought that between the brothers that class, and all it implies, would concern Boromir more. Not due to snobbery, but as you stated because it will indeed be his job to produce the heir. Yes, I think that tonight I will start sketching out my take on this.

Please note that I firmly believe Boromir would follow his heart, even if it led him to a match that his dad and the received wisdom of the ages would think unsuitable, and I don't really think he'd angst too much about it. But if you wanted him to, I think you could make a good case for it.

I really will try to stay away from too much angst... there are so many stories out there where the poor man suffers hellish torments. I tend to visualize him as more pondering how his choice would affect not only him, but Gondor - that is his true love in my opinion. I do believe that once he resolved that for himself that he would be ready to follow his heart.

How to bring out his romantic side without going OOC? That will be a challenge!

Maria

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How to bring out his romantic side without going OOC? That will be a challenge!

Heh. Y'know, I've given this quite a bit of thought. He's mentioned as not caring much for anything but warlike pursuits, but I don't think that means wouldn't fall in love, or that an affair of the heart would be out of character for him. No one ever said he was cold. Now, if you have him trying to write love poetry, or serenading some sweet thing at her windowsill, that'd be out of character I think. But a nice straightforward wooing? Oh, I think he'd be quite good at it.

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Now, if you have him trying to write love poetry, or serenading some sweet thing at her windowsill, that'd be out of character I think. But a nice straightforward wooing? Oh, I think he'd be quite good at it.

LOL!
OOC would be an understatement in that scenario.

So far, I have Boromir just meeting the young lady and for the life of me it is turning into dislike at first sight on both their parts. Eeek! I was hoping for a nice one chapter answer to the challenge but this is evolving into a three chapter story at least. But, that will give me more opportunity to explore both of them far better.

I must say that when I read the FOTR many years ago, I thought Boromir was quite passionate in his own way.

Maria

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I must say that when I read the FOTR many years ago, I thought Boromir was quite passionate in his own way.

Oh, heck yes! I've always thought that anyone who loved his people and his country as much as Boromir couldn't lack passion. And add to that the fact that he's a soldier, well, it seems to me that given the amount of death around him, how could he not either become a soulless, dispassionate dealer of death, or learn to value life and passion even more?

And just so you know, my own Boromir romance started out to be a wee little three chapter doggerel, but it's at chapter ten now and I think I might be halfway done.... Beware the writing of fanfiction... it's addictive, and should have warnings on the label.

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Oh, heck yes! I've always thought that anyone who loved his people and his country as much as Boromir couldn't lack passion. And add to that the fact that he's a soldier, well, it seems to me that given the amount of death around him, how could he not either become a soulless, dispassionate dealer of death, or learn to value life and passion even more?

Soulless and dispassionate are two things that I would never be able to associate with Boromir! His actions made it plain that his great love of family and country, not just duty, were not to be taken lightly. It has always been my belief that he must have had great compassion and love of life given the circumstances he found himself in growing up.

And just so you know, my own Boromir romance started out to be a wee little three chapter doggerel, but it's at chapter ten now and I think I might be halfway done.... Beware the writing of fanfiction... it's addictive, and should have warnings on the label.

Good gracious! LOL!
I appreciate the warning! I'm beginning to fear that Boromir and this young lady are going to chew my ear off. I will have to check out your story, I love nothing more than great fanfiction, but especially Boromir stories. What is the name if you don't mind my asking? I usually have the best chance to read on the weekends so I'd love to read it.

Maria

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His actions made it plain that his great love of family and country, not just duty, were not to be taken lightly. It has always been my belief that he must have had great compassion and love of life given the circumstances he found himself in growing up.

Indeed! It accounts for a great deal of my love for his character, and my interest in him, Faramir, and Denethor, and how the coming of Isildur's heir must have affected him.

I appreciate the warning! I'm beginning to fear that Boromir and this young lady are going to chew my ear off.

I will have to check out your story, I love nothing more than great fanfiction, but especially Boromir stories. What is the name if you don't mind my asking? I usually have the best chance to read on the weekends so I'd love to read it.

If you do read it, please bear in mind that when I started writing it, I *truly* did not intend it to be anything but a simple-minded "guns are bad" doggerel with the potential for a side-dish of kinky romance, lasting at most three or four chapters. As I wrote, I discovered it wasn't going to be that simple.... At this point, I'm very unhappy with parts of the first two chapters, and not thrilled with parts of the third. I'll go back and re-write them at some point, but I feel I need to get the thing finished before I start revising at that level.

I hope that they will be cooperative! They seem more interested in staying in a snit than romance. LOL!

If you do read it, please bear in mind that when I started writing it, I *truly* did not intend it to be anything but a simple-minded "guns are bad" doggerel with the potential for a side-dish of kinky romance, lasting at most three or four chapters. As I wrote, I discovered it wasn't going to be that simple.... At this point, I'm very unhappy with parts of the first two chapters, and not thrilled with parts of the third. I'll go back and re-write them at some point, but I feel I need to get the thing finished before I start revising at that level.

Let me know what you think!

I will keep your comments in mind as I am reading. I agree with you about revisions - I once tried to revise a story mid-way through and the desire to actually finish it petered out. So now I complete a project before starting any modifications. I am very excited about reading your story! I will have a review for you by Sunday night.

When I put up the first chapter of my Boromir/Mary Sue challenge I could sure use a good unbiased look. I should be uploading the first chapter Sunday night, no title at the moment, in the beta section and must admit to being nervous. lol.