Are there any other issues that bother you about nudism / naturism not covered above? How can it be Christian? Other? Any question is acceptable, just keep the conversation courteous and respectful.<P>Only Residents and higher may post here.

This could be a long post, I have a lot of thoughts to try to get out in an organized fashion. I posted this first on N-C.

As long as I can remember, I have been an outsider. I'm a middle child of 9. Not the baby, nor the firstborn. I have always been the weird child, the inventor, the one to think outside of the box. Hence, it makes some sense to me that I'd be the one to discover nudism, and accept it to a degree. I have only been publicly nude once, at hippie hollow. It was okay, not great, for reasons that don't have any bearing on this post. What I've always done before actually doing something new(and possible controversial) is a lot of research. Nudism was no exception. My research has led to some good discoveries(like this site and CNV), as well as some not so good discoveries. All this research has led this outsider to naturism to a question:

Is there not a better way to advertise?

Allow me to explain my question.

If I could use an old saying: "You shouldn't have to tell somebody that you are a Christian, it should be obvious." and along those lines I have been told that the way we live as Christians should draw people to Christ because of the obvious good HE has done in our lives by saving us. In similar fashion, if naturism is truly as good as we are told, why then does every naturist video seem.... preachy?... pushy?

I have always felt that my best witness for Christianity is my lifestyle. The fact that I'm content with my place in life, thankful to God for it, and modeling to those around me the way a Christian lives, and as a result cause people to want what I have that gives me such satisfaction in life.

What does this have to do with naturism/nudism? When I began my research into naturism, the biggest turn off to me was the very thing nudists were using to promote the lifestyle. The videos especially have been cheesy, poorly written, and in general low quality. Now I get it that especially in years before the current year that funding wasn't there. The thing I'm trying to drive at is that too many times in my research, I got an in my face presentation of nudism that just made want to turn off the video, and I frequently did.

Some specific problems I have:1. No clear distinction between "naturists" and Naturists. What I mean, it's clear that this site and a few other eschew sexuality in public, but the majority of other sites I found were clearly not so strict (truenudists for example, see the comments on photos of women in their gallery). In other words, naturism is not a single, definable idea, that embraces and emphasizes non-sexual social nudity.

2. Lack of the "it's so obvious my life style is good for me that I don't have to shove it down your throat" mentality. In the recent strip on N-C about a naturist vlogger for example, the woman in the video got into a lake, and immediately went on talking in an advertiser's way "oh it's so much better without clothes!".... at which I killed the video right when she said that, and her husband seemed to reluctantly and stiltedly echo. Again, if it's so good, it should be able to go without saying over and over.

3. Lack of involvement of younger adults. While I've been investigating this for myself, the usual stereotypes popped up. Old dudes, some of them creepy. The "they're so old they don't care what they show" one. How can we attract more people my age? I might add that very few people at HH the time we went were anywhere as young as we were.

4. Lack of legal protection. Enough said. It's just funny how a certain sexual perversion has been enshrined in "law" before a life style that is not actually harmful.

I guess to summarize my somewhat random thoughts, I guess what my final point is, is that sometimes Naturism feels to me like it's being advertised like the snake-oils of times past (think the health elixirs of the olden days). Kinda like the holistic healing of today. There's too much confusing info, and the actually legit sources of good info get too little resources to look legit.

Is there something we can do to fix this? I don't want to come across as critical. I want to help it gain some better traction.

Last edited by NudeDude92 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

I have been outsider in many different settings. And in several of them, which I see no reason to enumerate, I have noted a spectrum. There are some, true dyed in the wool activists, who will preach it and teach it and push the boundaries and work the agenda to change and fix it all. There are some, seize the moment funlovers, who will to a degree go along with the activists but just want to enjoy; if others come to join in, great. And there are others, myself one, who will go quietly, inconspicuously, careful who they say what to, hoping not to be spotted and stopped. That is where I am.

The Inyourfacerts always maske the most noise and are the most conspicuous. Not always the most effective.

The truth, the stark naked truth, the truth without so much as a loincloth on, should surely be the investigator's sole aim - Basil Chamberlain

Petros wrote:I'm rather an outsider myself, though with a different path.

And I definitely see your point - points?

Here's the thing:

I have been outsider in many different settings. And in several of them, which I see no reason to enumerate, I have noted a spectrum. There are some, true dyed in the wool activists, who will preach it and teach it and push the boundaries and work the agenda to change and fix it all. There are some, seize the moment funlovers, who will to a degree go along with the activists but just want to enjoy; if others come to join in, great. And there are others, myself one, who will go quietly, inconspicuously, careful who they say what to, hoping not to be spotted and stopped. That is where I am.

The Inyourfacerts always maske the most noise and are the most conspicuous. Not always the most effective.

Petros, I have to say, you and I are alike in the last way you described in that spectrum. This is part of why I'm not a terribly active poster. I'm not the kinda guy who likes advertisement, in fact, adblock is an old friend. I have a hard time telling people about my background. Few of the people I work with for these past four years really know much of anything about me.

Last edited by NudeDude92 on Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I too am an outsider. Always have been, probably always will be to some extent. Used to be that I disliked the feeling of being "outside looking inside," but now I've come to the point (most of the time) that I relish in doing and perceiving things differently. As an example, most people my age are content to spend their evenings and weekends partying, watching TV, or sleeping in; I'm a take-action kind of guy who wants to rise before dawn and do something: build something, clean something, go somewhere, read something, write something, learn something new. I've had a classmate call me a "lone wolf" and a coworker tell me I was an "old soul." Those two "labels" have helped me learn more about myself and also that I'm not the only one like me.

Like you, Nudedude, I do a lot of research before I take a step into the unknown. I battle "analysis paralysis" a lot. I question pretty much everything. I question God. It was that questioning and research that led me to naturism. Perhaps unlike you, though, I still made it to naturism despite all the "naturism."

My take on your specific problems:1. There is a distinction, but the term is not distinct. The naturism that we practice is not the "naturism" that soft-core sites and others practice. You might check out "The Naturist Living Podcast" hosted by Stéphane Deschênes, who owns the Bare Oaks Naturist Park in Ontario, Canada. He does a great job of trying to delineate between naturism and lewdness.Also to this point, I would say the same thing applies to "Christians" and Christians. A lot of non-Christians look at Westboro Baptist, Joel Osteen, Ken Copeland, etc. and see bigotry and crock, thus painting all Christians with the same wide brush. Until Christ returns, I think there will always be someone preaching a "Gospel 2.0." And I'm sure that there will always be someone associating lewdness with naturism.

2. I see two things here. One might be the "shove it down your throat" approach; the other might really be someone who is so enthusiastic about naturism and so stimulated (for lack of a better term) by being clothes-free that they can't help but declare how great it is. Again, I'd refer you to the podcast mentioned above, which you may find refreshing in this aspect as well.

3. I believe this stems from society more than anything. We live in the porno-prudish culture that both the church (little c) and businesses/marketers/the media perpetuate. Most young people don't see nudity as a non-sexual thing, unless in specific contexts such as the locker room or the doctor's office. Even then, many have a fear of being nude or seeing others, even of the same gender, nude. Also, most young people don't bother to ask questions like, "Why do we have to wear clothes all the time?" They probably ask, or at least think, these questions as kids (I'm pretty sure I did ), but are given the typical answers from adults ("That's just the way it is"/"It's wrong to be nude"/"It's a sin to be nude").As for the stereotypes, the creepy old dudes one is not unfounded from what I gather, and is a turn-off to both genders.Another factor is that the young adults/youth who are involved might be afraid or hesitant to invite their peers to join them, for fear of being made fun of, ostracized, or "outed." I know that has been, and still is, something I struggle with.Also consider that young people are typically trying to get their footing in life by going to college, getting a job, moving, looking for a spouse, etc. Some may not have the means to get to a naturist resort or nude beach even if they wanted to. Most probably just don't care because they have other, greater concerns.To sum it all up, I think we all are afraid of the unknown, or the different, to some extent. Think about what it would be like if most people were nude all the time; we wouldn't call ourselves nudists or naturists, we'd call those weirdos who secretly wore clothes in their houses "textiles"! Most people don't ask "why?" or dare to think differently. They'd much rather be fed information, true or not, and get on enjoying life.

4. This is true, but not always the case. Public nudity may be illegal in some places, but events like the World Naked Bike Ride still take place and I don't think those who participate get arrested en masse. (Of course, I'm sure it'd be far different in your state.)

Perhaps I've not been "into" naturism as much these past several months, but I've never got the feeling that naturism was advertised like a snake oil or "as seen on TV" product. I do agree that it needs better traction, and I don't have a solution (yet!), but I would say that it will start when naturists of all stripes and walks of life talk unashamedly about it with their non-naturist friends and family. Easier said than done, of course. Along with that, marketing and media will have to stop sexualizing/sensualizing the human body, and one way I can see that happening is if the phrase "sex sells" stops being true. How we get there, I'm not sure, but that's part of the solution as I see it.

Some truly great points made here NudeDude, Petros, and Maverick. First, I’m a member of TrueNudists and do agree about many of the comments directed to both sexes there which are with suggestive or outright sexual in nature. And, honestly, many are made by creepy old guys as well as younger men too.

Much of the religious community is opposed to nudity and label it as sinful simply because of their misunderstanding of non-sexual social nudism/naturism. Also, the media and fashion industries use sexiness to sell their products. Pornogragrahic films and images often start with the “stars” clothed in very suggestive outfits which are gradually removed in often suggestive acts and culminate in highly sexualized and even unnatural acts, though as time goes on they become more normalized and result in more extreme acts to continue to attract the same and new viewers.

I’ve not watched a lot of naturist films but I do support the idea of naturists/nudists playing, socializing, and acting in a more natural manner. I watched some of the video(s) produces by the English family in Spain (A Naturist Family) and, I guess, looked past the narrative regarding the water temperature, etc. I do recall both Anne and her husband talking about how deep the lake is/was. I think one thing to remember is the fact they’re not professional videographers nor actors and so weren’t speaking from a script but wee simply trying to convey their experience(s). I would like to see high quality, well produced products showing real nudists/naturists without stilted pilot lines intended to make nudists the butt of sexist and hateful jokes. Certainly, the sight of more fit bodies would be a greater draw than the sight of old, tired, out-of-shape bodies such as my own; however, nudist/naturist films should be inclusive as well. I wish I knew how to advance nudism to make it mainstream.

NudeDude92 wrote:...Some specific problems I have:1. No clear distinction between "naturists" and Naturists. What I mean, it's clear that this site and a few other eschew sexuality in public, but the majority of other sites I found were clearly not so strict (truenudists for example, see the comments on photos of women in their gallery). In other words, naturism is not a single, definable idea, that embraces and emphasizes non-sexual social nudity.

I won't repeat Maverick's clear words, but do want to agree with them. We can't stop the phony sites from usurping "nudist" and "naturist" key words as click-bait. TrueNudists could clamp down on abuse of their own site, but if they aren't doing so, then perhaps the owner of the organization doesn't know what naturism is, or perhaps doesn't care.We might eventually be able to overwhelm the disinformation with sheer numbers.

NudeDude92 wrote:2. Lack of the "it's so obvious my life style is good for me that I don't have to shove it down your throat" mentality. In the recent strip on N-C about a naturist vlogger for example, the woman in the video got into a lake, and immediately went on talking in an advertiser's way "oh it's so much better without clothes!".... at which I killed the video right when she said that, and her husband seemed to reluctantly and stiltedly echo. Again, if it's so good, it should be able to go without saying over and over.

I think it is a grave mistake on that woman's part to constrict the definition of naturism to the sensation of being naked outdoors and presumably with others present.I came to naturism from three directions:1. Sound Christian Doctrine - As I gained a more biblical understanding of the human body as one aspect of being created in the image of God (body, soul and spirit). To paraphrase Maverick, this fights back against "porno-prudery", the two-headed monster that creates lechery, shame and body-image disorders such as bulimia and anorexia nervosa.And worse, could lead to one drawing the perfectly logical conclusion that if the body is inherently pornographic, that our beloved Creator God is a pornographer.It is only right to fight with all our might against such satanic thoughts with the word of God and the sword of the spirit.

The second influence in my path toward naturism is simply put: NatureFrom the day I began singing "This is My Father's World" as a child, I could see the wisdom and grandeur of God in the natural world he created. And the quality of life is enhanced when we live more as we were designed: enjoying fresh air, sunshine, exercise and the visual auditory and tactile stimulation of full immersion in forest and meadow, seashore, mountains and rivers. Learning our local wild herbs for food and medicine, enjoying fabulously nutritious wild plums, muscadine grapes and blackberries in season, drinking cold spring water flowing from a rocky cleft of a mountain ridge. As I came to appreciate these natural wonders, it became obvious that in certain select times and places, shedding part or all of my clothes provided undiminished contact with nature.

The third influence was my interest in every aspect of optimal human health - more than a century ago, German philosophers discovered that in addition to outdoor exercise, healthy plant-based diet, that total exposure of the body to sunshine in moderation and fresh air with no limits whatsoever could contribute toward the goal of healthy living. I studied biology in depth in college and I know that they were absolutely correct, nudity can play a role in good health. There are psychological benefits that are worth considering as well. I am not a psychologist, but I can provide anecdotal evidence of lives that were improved as people gained comfort with their own bodies and social nudity seems a remarkably effective way of achieving that new attitude.

Later on, I participated in the nudist community firsthand. The bonds of friendship afforded by communities of most any type are helpful. Nudist community is no exception. A weekend at state park is not likely to provide that same sense of camaraderie that a weekend at nudist camp does, at least from my experience.

NudeDude92 wrote:3. Lack of involvement of younger adults. While I've been investigating this for myself, the usual stereotypes popped up. Old dudes, some of them creepy. The "they're so old they don't care what they show" one. How can we attract more people my age? I might add that very few people at HH the time we went were anywhere as young as we were.

There have been problems with attracting and retaining young adults, but I see some instances of a reversal:I found a very encouraging article (recently published) that indicates an uptick in naturist participation by young adults in France. This new look at naturism seems to be happening because for these young people, it is not just about the nudity, but about nude living in the context of environmental responsibility, harmony with nature and health consciousness (organic foods, exercise, etc.).

Those of us who know about the origins of naturism early in the 20th century, will chuckle at this "new" development. Not because we disapprove, but because it represents a welcome return to values that were part of naturism at its nativity and should have always remained at the forefront of naturism.

This could be the key to reaching a much wider audience, particularly among the younger generation.

But I may have completely dodged your question about how to reach the general public with what we know. Advertisers cannot be trusted to preserve the truth undistorted.We may have to put our heads together.Corky Stanton, long-time naturist website owner, has recently shared his desire to reach the public with a message that speaks to young adults in clear, effective language.I wish him all the best. Obviously one man cannot do the job. Many like him will also be needed to produce professional contemporary media presentations.

NudeDude92 wrote:4. Lack of legal protection. Enough said. It's just funny how a certain sexual perversion has been enshrined in "law" before a life style that is not actually harmful.

Not wishing to advocate for that "lifestyle" of perversion, but we should take note that they gained what they wanted with a long and public struggle. We can do the same.

I am not a Libertarian, but I concur on this one issue: I wish government would get out of the business of choosing our wardrobe when we are at the beach or swimming at a public reservoir.

NudeDude92 wrote:... sometimes Naturism feels to me like it's being advertised like the snake-oils of times past (think the health elixirs of the olden days). Kinda like the holistic healing of today. There's too much confusing info, and the actually legit sources of good info get too little resources to look legit....

Just as the spurious claims of some infomercials excessively tout the benefits of the latest nutritional supplement, it is clear that the common American diet is very unhealthy and that healthy people tend to eat a plant-based diet based in leafy greens and augmented by a wide variety of fresh fruits and vegetables. Nutritional science has come a long way in 30 years, but public willingness to adopt changes is sorely lacking. I think that the general public really would benefit from a trained nutritionist rather than Googling his or her way through life. Too many hucksters are choking the search results and Google may be a wiling accomplice.

Likewise, it is clear that all sensationalism aside, regular outdoor nudity and even social nudity can play an important role in a life well-lived. No exaggeration, no hype, just positive results for all to see.

NudeDude92 wrote:Some specific problems I have:1. No clear distinction between "naturists" and Naturists. What I mean, it's clear that this site and a few other eschew sexuality in public, but the majority of other sites I found were clearly not so strict (truenudists for example, see the comments on photos of women in their gallery). In other words, naturism is not a single, definable idea, that embraces and emphasizes non-sexual social nudity.

As already mentioned, this is similar to those who CALL themselves "Christians", when in fact they teach and practice nothing similar to Biblical Christianity.

Unfortunately, the internet and the world have taken over the definition of the words "naturist" and "naturism" and purposely equated it to immoral sexuality. This is the same EXACT trick that Satan has done with the nude human body. God NEVER declared that mere nudity was bad, immoral or in anyway sinful. However, it appears that the first idea that Satan instilled in or proto-parents mind was that they somehow needed to or even could possibly hide their bodies from God, to which God responded, "WHO told you you were naked???"

At this point, we would need to come up with a completely different word that would represent "Godly nudity", or satisfaction in being as God designed us, intended us and intends us to be. I believe that science bares this out (no pun intended). Science shows that our bodies perform BEST when allowed to be exposed to natural sunlight, air and water. Covering ourselves in false coverings increases the generation of bacteria, fungus, mold and other pestilence such as lice, and deprives our bodies of natural UV light needed to generate essential Vitamin-D. Supplements simply do not cut it. Perhaps we could guard the use of that word so that it to would not be associated to the broad definitions of "nudism", "naturism" and sexual immorality in general.

NudeDude92 wrote:2. Lack of the "it's so obvious my life style is good for me that I don't have to shove it down your throat" mentality. In the recent strip on N-C about a naturist vlogger for example, the woman in the video got into a lake, and immediately went on talking in an advertiser's way "oh it's so much better without clothes!".... at which I killed the video right when she said that, and her husband seemed to reluctantly and stiltedly echo. Again, if it's so good, it should be able to go without saying over and over.

If someone is going to extol the benefits of ANY activity, I do not know how one would do so without being exuberant about it to some extent. That said, I have not encountered ANYONE who wants to cram naturism down our throats.

NudeDude92 wrote:3. Lack of involvement of younger adults. While I've been investigating this for myself, the usual stereotypes popped up. Old dudes, some of them creepy. The "they're so old they don't care what they show" one. How can we attract more people my age? I might add that very few people at HH the time we went were anywhere as young as we were.

Unfortunately, our younger generations have been indoctrinated with the notion that "nude equals lewd" or "nude equals sex". That is what has been sold to them in almost every magazine, advertisement, TV program and movie, and it has been even more emphasized in the Church and other social settings. It is no wonder that they would struggle with the notion of being around someone else without the benefit of some articles of clothing, no matter how minimal they be.

NudeDude92 wrote:4. Lack of legal protection. Enough said. It's just funny how a certain sexual perversion has been enshrined in "law" before a life style that is not actually harmful.

I think that in actuality, there is a LOT more protection for simple nudity than you might think, with the exception of a few states or areas. This is more a problem of perception and fear. Most people are not willing to test the legal system in this area, ESPECIALLY in light of our sexually charged society today. I have read of several cases which were dropped because there was no punishable offense. Unfortunately, this is usually AFTER the newspapers have run someone's name through the mud with false accusations and innuendo. However, it is ironic that the overt law supports or allows for immoral sexual activity in many areas, which are KNOWN to be detrimental to society and health, but seems to bar simple nudity, which is KNOWN to be EXTREMELY beneficial for both health and society.

SON-cerely, Nathan PowersGet exposed to the sun, and get exposed to the Son.

I concur on folks being intimidated.There are some states that do not ban nudity on public beaches for children under 11.I know that parents will have to use wisdom about this freedom for their youngsters, but if they are smart about it they could:Go en masse as nudist families to the far end of a public beach, spend the day there with their kids and privately agree tp go to another beach next time around.The idea being that changing the location each time would reduce the odds of voyeuristic tourism.Perhaps families unfamiliar with nudism would see it for the first time and see it in a favorable light.That was true with some friends of mine when they stumbled upon Apollo Beach in Florida, the reality of innocent families enjoying nature in their natural state spoke far more eloquently than all the speculation about nudists.

Better yet, families could go to beaches in counties which do not ban nudity for any age.Now they might be well advised to start in the more secluded spots, say the far end of a barrier island.One friend of mine likes sunning and swimming nude on sand bars only reachable by boat.As a school teacher she has long summers and she and another teacher (both ladies single) went skinny dipping with their boys on these quiet weekdays.On weekends, the same waters are filled with boats. But their teacher's schedule with long summer days off from work allows them plenty of days to enjoy greater privacy.

One of my uncles enjoys skinny dipping almost every night when he goes boating on a big lake. He has never caused a scene (because he is unseen, or should I say, "un-scene"?).

I'd be the first to admit that we have way too few official nude beaches, but except for Haulover and Sandy Hook, a lot of them are nowhere close to having big numbers of people.Why don't we make better use of the beaches that we do have?

I live way too far from the ocean to go to beaches on a regular basis, but I do live in an area with plenty of creeks, rivers and lakes, some of them on private land.

And speaking of private land, naturist business owners should try to accomodate the naturist community.When I lived up north, we rented a health club one night a month in winter. The club owner was doing his part for us!

We've all seen Adopt-a-mile volunteers cleaning roadsides...Why not have local naturists adopt a mile?Cleaning our community roads shows that we are not secretive weirdos, but caring participants in the life of our community.

Are our nudist clubs active members of the local chamber of commerce? Do we have a booth at the fall festival? Why not? It's not against the law!

Jim,It's funny how broad a cross section of society nudists are!So far I have met:Technology workersGeneral contractorJournalistHousewivesRetired grandparentsCopsCar salesmanSchool teacherBusiness ownerChristian MinistersLandscaperVeteransCollege studentsFlight attendantSome of us are probably quite wealthy, some just squeaking by and most are middle class.Empty-nesters, young families with lots of kids, dating couples barely out of college, teenagers, older folks enjoying retirementMost are white, but I have met Asian, native American, and black nudists as well.Some people think nudism is a radical idea, something for liberals, but I have met conservative republicans, moderates, business owners and Christians as well as hippies and the children of hippies.In other words, nudists and naturists are everyday people, all walks of life, who all have discovered the joy and freedom of living a more natural way.

Before I committed to acknowledging I had become a naturist I shared on office with a lady who was, & still is, a practising naturist. We had many interesting chats around the subject & I met a number of her fellow naturists. There seemed to be a certain furtiveness in my presence; I should say I am not a scary looking individual. But those encounters made me wonder if naturists, by which I mean the whole movement, have been somewhat complicit in their/our own downfall.

In my country, naturists seem to have been tagged as 'mostly harmless but a bit odd'. Naturists seem to have responded to this by adopting something of a bunker mentality; stay quiet & don't frighten the horses. Has this failure to defend non-sexual, family friendly, social nudity as separate from paganism, swinging, new age rites & the vile 'dogging' dropped us in the poo with the general public? I think it has.

Add to this that many folk now get their perceptions of what naturism is from websites skewed to the nubile & Adonis like young while a real nudist beach will have many beer belly's, saggy bottoms & moobs; making it a sad reflection of western society in general. The lurch toward 'Inclusiveness', while laudable in many ways, seems to have left the ideas of personal fitness & health plus the fostering of good attitudes toward the earth God made us stewards of far behind.

So we need to accept some of the blame ourselves for the problems confronting naturism in general. I'm now wondering how I can convince my church, none of whom are aware of my enjoyment of naturism or the benefits I believe it brings to the daily exercise of my faith, that I have not gone off the rails? There is indeed a scary job of education & probably the taking of some lumps ahead of us/me...