My redpoints either take hours or they take months/years. I'm usually not motivated enough to focus on one route on multiple trips but if I go to the same crag often enough, I will usually get back on the route eventually.

If i blow the onsight and really love the route i'll try it one, maybe two more times that day then move on. If i still didn't send it, and it's worthy, i'll hit it one or two times on my next trip to the area. There's too much good rock out there to spend a whole day trying the same thing.

...do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

Usually it sucks to belay someone hanging all over a route for hours. So the best way to really project is to top rope solo. Then you can spend the whole day on the same route. It goes without saying that you should take into account any other people wanting to climb the same route, and remove your gear for a while if so.

And it of course goes without saying as well, that you should only top rope solo if you are 100% sure what you are doing.

Depends on the day. If I think I can get it on the second try then I'll go for it then. If not, I'll work on other routes until I feel comfortable / strong enough. I think the longest gap between my first try and the red point was something like eight months, and that's because I tried it first in Oct and didn't get back on it again until the next summer.

Trying a route over and over again is really mind-numbingly boring to me. I rarely try to get a route clean more than two or three times in total. Once I get it clean, it's no problem climbing a route again if it happens to be free and there's nothing else to do, but if not then who cares? Move on.

...do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

Usually it sucks to belay someone hanging all over a route for hours. So the best way to really project is to top rope solo. Then you can spend the whole day on the same route. It goes without saying that you should take into account any other people wanting to climb the same route, and remove your gear for a while if so.

And it of course goes without saying as well, that you should only top rope solo if you are 100% sure what you are doing.

...do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

Usually it sucks to belay someone hanging all over a route for hours. So the best way to really project is to top rope solo. Then you can spend the whole day on the same route. It goes without saying that you should take into account any other people wanting to climb the same route, and remove your gear for a while if so.

And it of course goes without saying as well, that you should only top rope solo if you are 100% sure what you are doing.

My redpoints either take hours or they take months/years. I'm usually not motivated enough to focus on one route on multiple trips but if I go to the same crag often enough, I will usually get back on the route eventually.

I once took six years and eight tries to redpoint a route. Seriously.

Sounds like me. Really depends on the route, the area, and other factors.

.do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

In reply to:

Usually it sucks to belay someone hanging all over a route for hours. So the best way to really project is to top rope solo. Then you can spend the whole day on the same route. It goes without saying that you should take into account any other people wanting to climb the same route, and remove your gear for a while if so.

I don't agree. Belaying is a exchange. if two climbing partners are both working a project in the same way, I can see no problem.

I've also been known to go to the local cliff and just to belay a partner who had a project before.

When I was training to do the Regualr North West face of Half dome in a day, in the early 90"s not today, I had apartner who spent a few hours belaying me while I ran laps.

In reply to:

And it of course goes without saying as well, that you should only top rope solo if you are 100% sure what you are doing.

In reply to:

This is utterly lame advice.

Jay

Why is that? < direct question. Jay, I agree. I think this is fairly lame advice.

My redpoints either take hours or they take months/years. I'm usually not motivated enough to focus on one route on multiple trips but if I go to the same crag often enough, I will usually get back on the route eventually.

I once took six years and eight tries to redpoint a route. Seriously.

I've done that, too. My longest project was three attempts in three years.

...do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

Usually it sucks to belay someone hanging all over a route for hours. So the best way to really project is to top rope solo. Then you can spend the whole day on the same route. It goes without saying that you should take into account any other people wanting to climb the same route, and remove your gear for a while if so.

And it of course goes without saying as well, that you should only top rope solo if you are 100% sure what you are doing.

...do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

Usually it sucks to belay someone hanging all over a route for hours. So the best way to really project is to top rope solo. Then you can spend the whole day on the same route. It goes without saying that you should take into account any other people wanting to climb the same route, and remove your gear for a while if so.

And it of course goes without saying as well, that you should only top rope solo if you are 100% sure what you are doing.

This is utterly lame advice.

Jay

Care to elaborate?

People who top-rope solo are social rejects who usually endanger themselves and others at the crag. If you can't find a friend to swap lead with there may be something more than just a problem with climbing. This has been my experience more than once. If you are such a basket case that you are gonna top rope solo a route instead of just try it, perhaps you should take up bouldering or running. This is very bad advice. Top rope soloing is a last ditch, end of the road, no one likes me sport. Avoid it.

God i love these people who just disagree with something.. then give no explanation as to why.

Is it lame because it is dangerous?. How?.

Is it lame because you personally have never done it?. Why?.

Is it lame because this is the internet and you just like to disagree?. Is it?.

Is it lame because ''top roping'' moves first will not help in the eventual lead send?. Really?.

I'm just not getting why it is lame.. but then again, it's jay. If it's anything but a 7a sport route its lame. Not sure where you come into it though. Are you jays eastern cousin?.

It is a lame advice because only a small percentage of routes can be set up for toprope soloing, bue to lack of access on top, overhanging nature of the climb, the climb line meandering too much, etc. etc.

It is also a lame advice because you do NOT want to toprope solo a route that is so far above your limit that you need to work it as a multi-day project.

I could probaby come up with a few more reasons, but I hope this is enough for you.

...do you devote an entire day to this one route and getting its sequence down? Or, is your practice on it more spread out, working on it little by little on different days?

What is your strategy(s) for for redpointing a route that is entirely new to you?

It depends on whether the route is something i can reasonably expect to redpoint in just a couple of tries (e.g. something that is maybe just one letter grade up from my best flash grade, and of the type/style that I am good at), or whether it is a route that I expect to work on for many attempts (e.g. something graded equal to or harder than my best redpoint).

If I think I could do a route in just couple tries, I will on the first attempt try to go as far as I can without falling (basicly, give it all and atempt to flash it). Then, if I failed to flash it, I would go bolt to bolt, determine where the crux is, maybe try the crux sequence as I am being lowered (if the route is not overhanging so much as to prevent it), then rest a good while and try it again, with the "sending" attitude, LOL. And try again after a good rest, if needed. I find that I usually don't have more than 3 good "redpoint" burns on a route in one day, so if 3 tries didn't do it, the redpoint is very unlikely to happen on try 4 or 5 of the day. So usually in terms of redpoint it is better for me to come back another day. if the situation is such that my partners still want to hang out ot the same place, I would continue climbing the route a couple more times.

If the route is really hard for me, I get on it with a plan of going bolt-to-bolt, figuring out each clipping stance, rests, etc. and really paying attention to the sequences. The next try I will start linking maybe 2 bolts at a time, if possible, paying attention to the sequences that I didn't see/do the first time because I was hanging on the bolt and so maybe didn't get into the sequence the right way. If possible, I would repeat the crux sequences, and maybe repeat the top section of the route, b.c that's where i would be most pumped on redpoint, so knowing the sequence well at the top would be helpful. I would do this maybe 3 times tops in the first day, or even just 2 times --because I simply won't be capable of doing more on a hard-for-me route, and because of other considerations, such as time, other people wanting to climb the route, etc. etc. Then the key thing for me is to think of the moves on the route during the week(s) when I cannot climb it. Visualize the sequences, picture myself climbing it, etc. On subsequent days I make mini-goals for myself, depending on where the crux is, where the rests are, and what I see as my strategy for sending it, such as: link together up to bolt 4, rest on bolt 4 and try to do the sequence between 4 and 7 in one piece, and then lower from there, because it is easy from 7 to the top and I know that section will go. Or, go bolt-to-bolt up to bolt 4, and then try do go from there to the top. Or, go as far as I can from the start, and then go 2 bolts at a time. Whatever it is... after I can do my mini-goal, then I set the next one, until the send.

I wouldn't do it either because it'd suck to sit on the rope for hours and I do not have the motivation to work on a single route all day, but it's not a horrible idea IMO in the right circumstances.

In reply to:

only a small percentage of routes can be set up for toprope soloing, bue to lack of access on top

You should be able to stick-clip up on the route if you have any chance of sending it.

In reply to:

overhanging nature of the climb, the climb line meandering too much

You climb on the rope that's clipped into the draws and unclip. You should be able to get back even after a fall.

In reply to:

It is also a lame advice because you do NOT want to toprope solo a route that is so far above your limit that you need to work it as a multi-day project.

I sense circular logic here ;-)

I wouldn't want to toprope solo with a grigri for example if the crux is just above the ground on a long route or right at the anchors because the falls would be too soft hitting the ground or too hard.

I wouldn't do it either because it'd suck to sit on the rope for hours and I do not have the motivation to work on a single route all day, but it's not a horrible idea IMO in the right circumstances.

So, what percentage of circumstances would be the right circumstances, in your estimation?

jomagam wrote:

In reply to:

only a small percentage of routes can be set up for toprope soloing, bue to lack of access on top

You should be able to stick-clip up on the route if you have any chance of sending it.

...except when you cannot stick clip your way up the route-- due to the distance between bolts being longer than your stick clip, due to a roof or a bulge blocking your reach to the next bolt, etc. etc. Yes, I can easily name quite a few routes that I have projected, am projecting, or am thinking about projecting, that are not stick-clipping friendly.

jomagam wrote:

In reply to:

overhanging nature of the climb, the climb line meandering too much

You climb on the rope that's clipped into the draws and unclip. You should be able to get back even after a fall.

Yes, I know which side of the rope I climb on, but I also know that the majority of the routes that I work on require active help from the belayer in order for the climber to get back on after a fall, if the fall happens to be in the wrong place, and are not toproping-friendly even when all the bolts are clipped.

This is terrain-dependent, obviously, which is why I specified overhanging and meandering routes.

jomagam wrote:

I wouldn't want to toprope solo with a grigri for example if the crux is just above the ground on a long route or right at the anchors because the falls would be too soft hitting the ground or too hard.

To each its own...

Thanks for listing another reason why it might not be the best way to work the route.

Remember, the original question was how to BEST work on redpointing a route -- not how to get out and climb when you want to climb without a partner, or are unable to find one. Rope soloing is definitely not the best way to redpoint a route, and therefore the advice to do so was rather strange... there is a big difference between "not a horrible idea in the right circumstances" and "the best idea".

And just to be clear, you are posting this in a thread started by someone who is so new to climbing that he (?) does not know the difference between flash and redpoint. He really needs to rope solo while redpointing his route, right?

All that I said pertains to somebody who is hardcore enough to project a route for hours. I wouldn't advise a newbie to do so just because you want more experience rather than learn all the moves for a 10a. Having said that and considering that there's usually no single best way to do things in climbing, I think it's valid to list it as an option to make the thread more informative.

In reply to:

what percentage of circumstances would be the right circumstances, in your estimation?

Somewhere between 1/3rd and 2/3 of routes worth projecting in let's say the 5.12-5.13 range.

And just to be clear, you are posting this in a thread started by someone who is so new to climbing that he (?) does not know the difference between flash and redpoint. He really needs to rope solo while redpointing his route, right?

This was actually one of the reasons I suggested top rope soloing. I don't think the OP is going to project some 5.13 overhanging stuff (where your bolt-to-bolt tactic works much better), but rather vertical routes where the main problem is not having the technique or endurance to climb it without resting. Also, new climbers often have very few climbing partners, so doing some TR soloing on those days none of your friends can make it is much better than trashing your fingers on the fingerboard at home.

But sure, I agree that TR soloing is not always the best way to project, but it definitely can be something worth considering.

And just to be clear, you are posting this in a thread started by someone who is so new to climbing that he (?) does not know the difference between flash and redpoint. He really needs to rope solo while redpointing his route, right?

This was actually one of the reasons I suggested top rope soloing. I don't think the OP is going to project some 5.13 overhanging stuff (where your bolt-to-bolt tactic works much better), but rather vertical routes where the main problem is not having the technique or endurance to climb it without resting.

Your list of unwarranted assumptions continues to grow, and you've added a false dichotomy, as well. Moreover, by recommending top-rope soloing to work a route when the climber's problem is a lack of endurance, you've just defeated your own argument.

And just to be clear, you are posting this in a thread started by someone who is so new to climbing that he (?) does not know the difference between flash and redpoint. He really needs to rope solo while redpointing his route, right?

This was actually one of the reasons I suggested top rope soloing. I don't think the OP is going to project some 5.13 overhanging stuff (where your bolt-to-bolt tactic works much better), but rather vertical routes where the main problem is not having the technique or endurance to climb it without resting.

Your list of unwarranted assumptions continues to grow, and you've added a false dichotomy, as well. Moreover, by recommending top-rope soloing to work a route when the climber's problem is a lack of endurance, you've just defeated your own argument.

Jay

Well, the OP was only 3 rows, so in order to keep the discussion going we need to do some assumptions. This is the internet, after all!