The ultimate theoretical house could require all 7 item types to force-enter.

As far as I'm aware, there's no way for a house to force you to use a brick, drugged meat, a club, a doorstop, or a saw.

I'm not sure about the crowbar... could you have a whole "wall of doors" that you could not cut around? If so, how would it be triggered? If externally, then you could cut the power. If internally, then how would it be triggered? Maybe by a timer?

If this is not possible, then you can always cut around a door, making the crowbar redundant in this calculation. 6 mandatory item types is possible, then?

Am I missing something here? Should I bring the backpack slots down to 6?

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

As far as I can remember, an explosive can blast a metal wall, right? So you do not necessarily need a torch...I think a wall of doors can be activated by an animal seeing you from the other side of the wall. You could not cut around.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

Explosives don't hurt metal walls (only wood and concrete).

By a "wall of doors" I meant a wall from one end of the house to the other. If the doors are closed... Oh, well, but if they start open and then close, the animals could see you and then start a magic dance behind the closed wall-of-doors. So then a crowbar can be necessary to break a house.

So.... then the question is: should I cut down the backpack slots to 7? Seems like such a puny change that it might not even be worth doing.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

All houses can be broken with a combination of only 5 items:Crowbar, water, wirecutters, ladder and the gun.

This is because each house must have a walkable path to the vault and these are the only items required to brute force such a path. Tools that bust through walls aren't needed.

I've had a go of making a house where these 5 items are necessary, though I'm not sure it's possible to force the player to use a gun. In this one you have to use a crowbar, wirecutters, water and ladder to brute force but can replace the gun with a brick/saw and dogfood or possibly just a saw:http://castledraft.com/editor/CXrsbX

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

An attempt for a house requiring a gun: http://castledraft.com/editor/RBJUMLThe idea is to get an 8-connected chain of pitbulls if you do not complete the lock. It may need some adjustment related to visibility, to ensure that the pitull on the top stays on the topmost rank.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

Can you please explain how you break through with a ladder and a crowbar? I don't understand how you could use the crowbar because the door is initially unpowered.Here is an even more simple design: http://castledraft.com/editor/3V2IEk

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

Good thinking here! I forgot about self-test forbidding fully-walled-off houses.

So... in that case, it seems like 5 backpack slots would be pretty interesting. Lower than that, and everyone would just build Josh's house there.

Obviously, if you COULD use a brick instead of a ladder, you'd much rather carry a brick. But in some cases, you'd need a ladder.

I just feel like there are not quite enough "difficult decision" present in the "what to carry" question, because you have so much room... pretty much room for everything but the usually-useless items. So, a rich player can just fill up the backpack without much thought.

8 Slots was a serious, brain-busting limit back when each slot only held one item.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

arakira:Crowbars can be used to club dogs in exactly the same way as a club. This was once one of their primary purposes, back when they were much cheaper and the club didn't exist. So even in the new design you can just ladder the bit at the bottom, crowbar the dog and walk to the vault.

Jason:I think 5 slots might be too restrictive, 6 might be a good compromise. Both would have the interesting effect of encouraging more diversity within a house to force the player to bring as many different types of tool as possible and restrict less expensive ones. It is hard to know how they will effect the game in the long term without trying it though.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

This one can be broken with a dogfood and a crowbar (hint, use dogfood on the dog to straight down after one step). It wouldn't be too hard to fix, though, although such a house could be a real pain to set up, especially with only one account.

We are all in charge of the wiki, you can edit it to fix it if you like. I think at some point explosives could blow through metal walls and it was changed.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

Damn. If you put an electric floor in front of the mat, it works, right? I tried to avoid putting one there, so that it is easier to set up.Maybe something like this: http://castledraft.com/editor/5dQkdz, you get the idea. It is difficult to test because all the dogs look the same so I am not sure where each one is moving... Would be nice to be able to paint dogs with different colors!

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

I think it would be nice to reduce to 5 or 6 slots. I've never felt restricted by the 8 items limit, and lowering the limit would add some tough tactical decisions when preparing the backpack. If you reduce down to 5, we may see many houses with a mix of different kind of walls: putting metal AND concrete walls around doors could for example force the robber to bring some expensive crowbars... that could be interesting.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

My worry is that with too much restriction it might make home defence a little too easy for the rich and possibly make tool choice when robbing the rich less interesting. It is nice to be able to bring along a few "just in case" tools and robbery already works pretty well as it is. As I said, it is hard to know how things would pan out though without actually implementing it.

Re: Maximum number of item types a house can FORCE a robber to use?

With a tight 5 slot limit it will be possible to force people to do things such as using a load of guns on dogs that could otherwise be taken out with a drugged meat, and have them unable to break any walls. Although this would be hard to ever set up.