In reading through some other threads, I've noticed a common theme, people who say their parents used harsh methods mention that all they were taught was how to sneak better so as not to get caught.

I, on the other hand, don't recall ever doing something where I was worried about being "caught" (well, except the obvious--nudge, nudge, wink, wink, but I think most people want to keep that private ).

Personally, I think teenage years = rebellion. Regardless of discipline/ lack of discpline in the early years. I say this based on my own experience as a teenager and based on raising my now nearly-19-year old daughter. Honestly, I'd be a little worried about a teenager who doesn't rebel at all. I think it is a necessary rite of passage and developmental milestone.

I didn't get a whole lot of discipline as a child. As a teenager, I really didn't rebel; I didn't drink, didn't do drugs, didn't date until I was 16 and even then I was extremely chaste. However, I saved up and rebelled in my 30's. Seriously.

My teenager has done all of the things I didn't do as a teen. We had our rough times, she lied a few times, snuck out a few times, skipped school, etc. We had rules and I gave her guidance, but she rebelled in her own way. She has come through it fine, though, and we are closer than ever and she is getting very good grades in college and is very well adjusted (if I may say so )

I don't know. I didn't have harsh discipline, and I did "rebel". But, I didn't rebel against my parents so much. Mom and I had a few arguments during my teens, but not very many. I rebelled against...me, I guess. I started smoking when I was 12, starting drinking and smoking pot and lost my virginity at 14. I blew off school, and barely graduated, despite being one of the two class "brains".

But, I also suffered from severe undiagnosed PMS, undiagnosed depression, and the aftermath of emotional and sexual abuse in my childhood - by another relative, not one of my parents. (To this day, my mom is probably the only "authority figure" that I trust - not that she's still an authority figure, but she was when I was young. I don't trust teachers, counsellors, doctors, government agents of any kind, etc.)

So, I think my rebellion had a lot more to do with biochemistry and serious issues with my sexual identity than it did with anything my parents did when I was young.

I didn't rebel either....and was gently disciplined. I was pretty much a goody goody until I got to college, and then I loosened up a bit, but still was NOT what you would consider a rebel. Had my first drink at 20, never smoked a cigarette in my life, never tried any drugs. OK, so I lost my virginity at 16 , but we were completely monogamous for 4 years and completely anal retentive about protection..like, REALLY obsessive I never felt the need to rebel in the ways most of my schoolmates did, and if I was ever offered cigs or drinks or what have you, I just said "no thanks", and dropped it. Nobody ever teased me (maybe behind my back, but never to my face), maybe because I seemed confident in myself (? Not sure why...), and nobody ever tried to talk me into anything either - they'd offer, I'd decline, end of story.

I can't thank my parents enough for doing whatever they did to instill in me the sense of self that I didn't need to find ways to escape or be cool or rebel, or do what everyone else was doing, as a teenager, young adult, and even now.

I never had shouting matches with my parents, or slammed doors, or sneaking out, or whatever; the worst thing I can remember happening (which we all laugh about now) was when I was about 15 and was a complete slob in my bedroom, my parents had tried many times to get me to keep it clean and were at their wit's end, so they put a shovel leaning on my bedroom door with a note taped to it that said, "Please clean your room.". Well, I took the shovel and started shoveling things out into the hallway....I thought it was funny, they were not so amused. We ended up coming to an understanding that I would keep common spaces tidy, that I wouldn't leave any food in my room, but otherwise the state of my room was up to me and we'd just keep my door closed so my mom wouldn't faint in horror.

Anyway, I think my lack of rebellion is due to several things:
- They helped me develop self confidence without making me obnoxious and full of myself. (How they did this I'm not sure, but I will be asking my mom VERY soon so that I can do the same with my kids - I think it's probably the best gift they gave me!!)
- They let me know it was OK to be my own person and not follow the crowd; as long as I was "a good person" and wasn't hurting myself or anyone else by what I was doing, it was OK with them.
- They were always respectful to me, and treated me the way they wanted to be treated.
- They practiced gentle (but authoritative - not authoritarian) discipline!
- They did set boundaries and limits for me to keep me safe, and did have consistent (but not unrealistic) expectations for my overall 'behavior'.
- They made sure I had everything I needed, but NOT everything I wanted.
- They had fun and did goofy stuff with me, ALL the time throughout my childhood and adolescence (and even to this day).

I was raised with something in between ap/gd and authoritarianism. I didn't really rebel in the conventional ways--I didn't take drugs, have sex, or dye my hair any colors not found in nature. I did start rebelling against my parents babying and micromanaging me when I was about 14, but they relented (mostly). I never snuck out or lied to them. I did semi-rebel in a couple of major ways; I joined a different church and I became politically active in a direction mostly opposite my parents. But those were things I sincerely believed, not things I was doing to rebel.

I don't think how parents treat their kids as toddlers will necessarily affect the relationship as teenagers, although it might be indicitive of underlying attitudes about their offspring. Personally I believe that most teenage and young adult rebellion is the result of repressive social standards that, for cultural, political, and economic reasons, continue to treat people who are biologically young adults as children. My relationship with my parents improved so much when they started respecting me as a young adult, and I had much more freedom and respect than most people my age. I could come and go as I pleased and basically do whatever I wanted. I was *expected* to behave like a responsible young adult, not an overgrown child, and I lived up to the expectation.

I work at a children's home for kids who are "out of control" - not at the sent-to-jail level, but as a precaution right before that. Most of our kids were not disciplined as kids- their parents were afraid to say no or to step up and discipline them. They come from homes where there is no one in charge and no authority established. Their parents (usually mothers) do not expect any respect out of the kids and so what happens . . . by the time they are 10-12 years old they are out of control- no respect for any kind of authority (especially women), getting kicked out of school and some in trouble with the law.

In five years of having 10 boys with me, I think parenting/discipline in the early years REALLY has a lot to do with teenage rebellion! It's not a fail-safe but parenting kids to be respectful, while gradually giving them more freedom as they get older goes a loooong way toward having teens with less rebellion.

Wife to my Denali-climbing DHMom to DD born Jan. 08 and DS born Oct. 09, and "baby sister" due Oct 2013!House mom to ten boys, ages 8-11 at a group home! Yes, I must be nuts!

I think a gd approach goes along way in preventing traditional forms of rebellion -- the kind of rebellion which seems to be children acting out from what is a very punitive, opressive form of discipline -- though I will say most pre-teens/teens do rebel in some way regardless, because of changes in body, hormones, thoughts, feelings, ideas etc ...it can be a rough time for a teenager even in the most gentle of homes.

I do have to comment on the pp though who said:

Quote:

I work at a children's home for kids who are "out of control" - not at the sent-to-jail level, but as a precaution right before that. Most of our kids were not disciplined as kids- their parents were afraid to say no or to step up and discipline them. They come from homes where there is no one in charge and no authority established. Their parents (usually mothers) do not expect any respect out of the kids and so what happens . . . by the time they are 10-12 years old they are out of control- no respect for any kind of authority (especially women), getting kicked out of school and some in trouble with the law.

In five years of having 10 boys with me, I think parenting/discipline in the early years REALLY has a lot to do with teenage rebellion! It's not a fail-safe but parenting kids to be respectful, while gradually giving them more freedom as they get older goes a loooong way toward having teens with less rebellion

I'm not trying to pick on the poster, but I do the strong need to defend consensual living here, as it does sometimes get confused with no boundries whatsoever. I think there is a huge difference between the parents who just let their children run wild and do whatever they want to the detrement of others because they are either scared of their children or don't give enough of a toss to get off their butts and put in the time and effort and creativity and patience to discipline them gently -- I think the examples above are more conducive to that type of parenting.

Our daughter has very few *boundries*. We of course take measures to keep her safe, but in the way of *rules*, we have very few -- the two basic things we strive to teach is respect for herself and respect for others. We strive for mutually agreeable solutions in every situation. I am not a fan of arbitrary rules, do as I say not as I do, punishment, shame, time-outs, using force because I am older and bigger, or limiting her exploration or learning process "because I said so."

I know it seems like I am jumping on a soapbox but I had to clarify because I feel like many people do lump our type of parenting into "we don't give a crap, do whatever you want because we are too lazy to do anything about it" type parenting which imo, causes the problems above...not so much lack of boundries, but lack of really, well, anything -- teaching, modeling, communication, attachment etc...

So in closing, I will say that it's my hypothesis that our daughter will be on average less rebellious than some other children who may be raised with a much stricter, more controlling, rigid environment, simply because, while their may be a few safety boundries or ones where she can't do X because it will be disrespecting Y's body/property etc....she won't have much to *fight* against kwim?

I'll never forget this one time when I was in high school I sneaked out of the house to meet up with some friends. None of us had permission to leave home and we all felt like super rebels.

My parents were pretty punitive and so the sibs and I had learned pretty early on not to tell them much of anything for fear of punishment. I wasn't a rebellious kid too much as far as acting out... mine was more of an intellectual rebellion.

Anyway we were all talking about how much trouble we'd be in if we were caught, what our parents would do, etc., but when it came to my friend Becky, she shrugged and said that she'd probably tell her parents all about it at breakfast. We were shocked that 1) she'd tell and b) she wouldn't get in trouble for it. She did tell her parents and the only thing they said was that they wished she'd told them she was going out so that if something happened they'd know.

That story really resonated with me. Since she had no fear of punishment or reprisal she told her parents pretty much everything. Volunteered the information. The result was that they were almost always in tune with what was going on in her life, and I thought that was pretty cool.

I'll never forget this one time when I was in high school I sneaked out of the house to meet up with some friends. None of us had permission to leave home and we all felt like super rebels.

My parents were pretty punitive and so the sibs and I had learned pretty early on not to tell them much of anything for fear of punishment. I wasn't a rebellious kid too much as far as acting out... mine was more of an intellectual rebellion.

Anyway we were all talking about how much trouble we'd be in if we were caught, what our parents would do, etc., but when it came to my friend Becky, she shrugged and said that she'd probably tell her parents all about it at breakfast. We were shocked that 1) she'd tell and b) she wouldn't get in trouble for it. She did tell her parents and the only thing they said was that they wished she'd told them she was going out so that if something happened they'd know.

That story really resonated with me. Since she had no fear of punishment or reprisal she told her parents pretty much everything. Volunteered the information. The result was that they were almost always in tune with what was going on in her life, and I thought that was pretty cool.

: My parents were very punitive and I was afraid to tell them anything. Then once, I skipped school. Because I was a *good girl* and never did anything wrong, one of the girls on teh newspaper needed me to edit an article she did, and I wasn't there, so she called me at home. My father, to my total and complete surprise did not yell at me or hit me. He grounded me for two months, but then he said "Look, if you're not at school, I don't know where you are. If something happened, I'd have no idea. I worry" so about 4 months later, we decided to skip again, and I called him and said "Dad, we're skipping school and going to the lake" and he sat there in stunned silence before saying "okay, be careful" and I hung up. : Thank you. It's very rare that I have a memory like that about my childhood

: My parents were very punitive and I was afraid to tell them anything. Then once, I skipped school. Because I was a *good girl* and never did anything wrong, one of the girls on teh newspaper needed me to edit an article she did, and I wasn't there, so she called me at home. My father, to my total and complete surprise did not yell at me or hit me. He grounded me for two months, but then he said "Look, if you're not at school, I don't know where you are. If something happened, I'd have no idea. I worry" so about 4 months later, we decided to skip again, and I called him and said "Dad, we're skipping school and going to the lake" and he sat there in stunned silence before saying "okay, be careful" and I hung up. : Thank you. It's very rare that I have a memory like that about my childhood

That? Is hilarious. I'm glad you got to relive a good memory. That always puts me in a good mood.

LOL
nak so must be short but lisac - love that story. APMom too. reminds me of when i went to a party on winter break freshman year of college (back at home). it was going to be a coed sleepover. there was drinking...i was drinking...went walking with a group of ppl, caught with open bottle. oops. underage. OOPS. i was cited and had to go to a class, etc. anyway, i called my dad (only one home at the time - mom was at work) and told him everything. i knew he wouldn't be pissed, even though the last thing he'd said before i left was "if you drink, just be smart". LOL OOPS!!! my friends all assumed my ass would be grass and were shocked i called him. they just assumed he'd come pick me up spitting nails at me. but he said "do you want to come home? are you upset, and want to come home?" i said i wasn't sure. i was pretty freaked out. and i told him that. so he said "well, if you come home...then your night will have ended on a bad note. you won't have the chance to turn it around and at least have a good time. you'll be sitting at home with me, stressing about getting cited. why don't you stay, try to forget about it, have some fun, and we'll deal with it tomorrow."

that's my dad.

the same guy who wanted to arrest my now DH when we were just dating because he was 3 years older than me. LMAO!!!!

anyway, just reminded me of that.

i think most teens will rebel, depends a lot on temperament. the big difference i can see is that children who are products of GD will hopefully have learned that their parents know it will happen, that they expect rebellion, and support their safe exploration of all aspects of themselves.

I feel like many people do lump our type of parenting into "we don't give a crap, do whatever you want because we are too lazy to do anything about it" type parenting which imo, causes the problems above...not so much lack of boundries, but lack of really, well, anything -- teaching, modeling, communication, attachment etc...

very true.

I think that a strong attachment bond between parents and children is key to avoiding major problems in adolescence. I also think it is important to create a climate of mutual respect. Love, respect, and guidance.

Had another thought. One issue I see is that a lot of people call typical adolescent mistakes or experimentation "rebellion" when it might not be that at all. All along we parents give our children guidance and try to impart our values, but they do ultimately make decisions on their own. At age three you might be trying to teach them not to hit, and it might take some experimentation and mistakes on the child's part before they learn. I believe the same is true for adolescents, except the stakes are a bit higher. We try to guide them, and impart our values, but some kids need to experiment to learn and find their way.

Had another thought. One issue I see is that a lot of people call typical adolescent mistakes or experimentation "rebellion" when it might not be that at all. All along we parents give our children guidance and try to impart our values, but they do ultimately make decisions on their own. At age three you might be trying to teach them not to hit, and it might take some experimentation and mistakes on the child's part before they learn. I believe the same is true for adolescents, except the stakes are a bit higher. We try to guide them, and impart our values, but some kids need to experiment to learn and find their way.

I find this to be really interesting, and really terrifying at the same time. I was clearly a kid with a temperment that didn't test a lot, but basically just trusted my parents to be telling me the truth and having my best interests at heart, and being more experienced than I was.....but, well.....DS seems to be a little bit of a tester and experimenter. Not hugely, but moreso than I was as far as what my mom tells me. You just shed a big old light on this issue for me, and I really, REALLY appreciate it!!! I will try to keep this in mind as DS grows up.

As a related question, does anyone think is any way as a parent of a "tester" to minimize the dangers of the things they might be experimenting with as they grow older? As sunnysideup says above, the stakes are way higher in the teen years than as a toddler...or will the fact that we're not arbitrary or rigid, and respect him as a person help, and so long as we're honest wth him and convey our values to him, maybe it won't be as horrible as I'm suddenly imagining?

Seriously, a lightbulb just went off for me here.....and I'm a wee bit scared!

As a related question, does anyone think is any way as a parent of a "tester" to minimize the dangers of the things they might be experimenting with as they grow older? As sunnysideup says above, the stakes are way higher in the teen years than as a toddler...or will the fact that we're not arbitrary or rigid, and respect him as a person help, and so long as we're honest wth him and convey our values to him, maybe it won't be as horrible as I'm suddenly imagining?

I think that kids that feel loved and respected and attached to their parents are more likely to follow their guidance. If they do hit bumps they are, I believe, more likely to make it through ok if they have your unconditional love and acceptance. Have you read Hold On To Your Kids? great book that speaks to a lot of the stuff we're talking about.

I believe authoritarian/strict...parenting in the early years creates one of two things in their children---either a robot or a rebel. It's not healthy either way.
It is not a natural human trait to rebel at the onset of teenage years. It is ever ever so common in America for teens to rebel, but it's a nurture issue, not a nature issue.

I believe authoritarian/strict...parenting in the early years creates one of two things in their children---either a robot or a rebel. It's not healthy either way.
It is not a natural human trait to rebel at the onset of teenage years. It is ever ever so common in America for teens to rebel, but it's a nurture issue, not a nature issue.

First of all, yes to that.

Now, I was raised in a punitive way (borderline with abuse - when I was "too old" to be spanked on the butt, I was slapped in the face, plus lots of emotional put downs)

Anyway. I don't know if I "rebelled". I just learned very well how to sneak around and lie my way out of anything. As a matter of fact that's the first thing I would think of before undertaking any activity I wanted to do - be it skipping the school, meeting my future DH (yes I met him when I was 15). "How can I present it to my parents so they would believe me?" So long story short, my parents had NO idea I was "rebelling" until I became pregnant (with a pride of my life )

Oh, and together with it came constant fear of being found out. May be that's why I HATE to lie now although I know I can do it very well (as if it was something to brag about : )

NOT what I want my kids to EVER go through. My 18yo son did not face much of "discipline". We try to live concentually, and I find it so-o-o much easier! When he needs help, he comes and talks to us. Period. I love it.

EVEN when it was after he had his first drink. Yes, he came to US. He tried it, he did not like it but HE WAS NOT AFRAID to come to us first.

My friends still ask me "so, is he a typical teenager yet?" I guess not, but I see it as totally normal and expected.

Now we have a much younger DD. The "discipline" as a subject never comes up. We just live. She has a very different temperament than DS. We all are learning how to live with each other in the most harmonious way. Teaching kids as they express interest (and there is A LOT of interest). Redirecting and explaining to them when they are too young to grasp some concept. Realizing what is age appropriate. Spending time together.

I'd also like to add that if/when any of my children, regardless of age, lie to me or sneak something...I would see that as an indication that I've messed up somewhere. I would not see their dishonesty as a character flaw on their behalf. I have a fundamentally held belief that my children naturally desire to be honest with me, and if they were to choose not to be so I would look to my parenting to blame. I would adjust my parenting, not their behavior.

My ds isn't 5 yet, but I've been enjoying that when he is being sneaky and I ask "are you tricking me?", he invariably replies "yes". I do think that disciplinarians teach their children how not to get caught.

I think there is a huge difference between the parents who just let their children run wild and do whatever they want to the detrement of others because they are either scared of their children or don't give enough of a toss to get off their butts and put in the time and effort and creativity and patience to discipline them gently --

Or, they're stretched to their financial and emotional limits. They're semi-illiterate and underpaid and they don't have the time or resources to "put in the time and effort and creativity and patience to discipline them gently".

IME, you CAN pick out the toddlers/preschoolers that are going to be "in trouble". I would wager that you could have guessed that those 10 boys would end up in a place like that, had you seen them at age 4. But I think there's a lot more at work there than the discipline style.