Bob, If you do a google earth search on my QTH I think you will see that everyone in my neighborhood takes care of their property. It may be economics, I can't say. I will state for a fact that my prior home was in an older neighborhood where we each took care of our property and no one told me that I couldn't fill in my pool so that I could mount an 80/40 vertical. As I and others have stated over and over, if we had viable alternatives, this forum and our complaints would not exist. I have no plans to retire to Florida. I Love the NYC metro area. However, even in central Jersey were we are looking every new neighborhood is HOA controlled. Give us viable options and I (& I suppose others) will go away happily. I see ham radio as a hobby which effects no one negatively. The issue is that I want to put up a antenna on property that I own and maintain and pay taxes for, yet there are some who believe that even though I supposedly own my land that I shouldn't be able to enjoy my legally licensed hobby from the comfort of my home. I'm not talking towers, which if they fell could damage a neighbors property. I'm talking perfectly acceptable antennas located and maintained on my own property. That is what I take offense of. Next they will tell us that we all must drive Fords which are no older than 5 years old and painted white. Sound ridiculous? So does a group of strangers telling me what I can and can't do on property which I supposedly own, even though it is a perfectly legal and licensed hobby. These same strangers tell me that I must subsidize clubhouses, swimming pools and golf courses even though none of these hold any interest to me.

OK, Dave...fair 'nuff. But do I perceive a crack in your CC&R/HOA objections with "viable alternatives" and "give us viable options and I (& I suppose others) will go away"? Can I assume that if there were no antenna restrictions, you might let the other CC&R regulations slide (even driving newer white Fords ), and purchase a home in one of those communities? With the exception of the absolute "rights advocates" (I can do whatever I want on property I own), I suspect most hams would think that way. So maybe it's not all "I hate HOA's", but it's all about the antenna restrictions.

CC&R/HOA enforced communities are here to stay. If an effective ARPA bill were to be passed, would this "Antenna Restrictions" forum topic cease to exist? I think not. There will always be those that will push the envelope, and want to erect a 50-foot tower with tribander on a postage stamp-sized lot, instead of being satisfied with a "perfectly acceptable" multi-band vertical or dipole. And the beat goes on....

73, Bob K7JQ

Bob, I will tell you that if a particular HOA neighborhood that my wife and I would like to live in allowed me to install and antenna on my property, I' have no complaints about some of MY HOA fees going to support the neighborhood swimming pool. That's the price of living in a neighborhood as opposed to living alone in the woods. However, it is unacceptable to me to charge me fees for items I will never use and then tell me that on tip of those charges I can not make use of my own house to operate a legally licensed ham radio station (which would require me to mount an antenna on MY property). As to those who wold push the envelope, they exist in every walk of life. When I had my TH5 installed on the roof of my old house I had to get a permit from the township to mount that antenna on my roof. No big deal. I went to the town and had the inspector come out and approve my antenna. I wasn't offended that I had to seek permission from the building inspector. I could understand limits if I as a homeowner decided that I wanted to host weekly parties at my house. That could become an annoyance to my neighbors. My antennas are on my property. A spiderbeam on the roof of my home would cause damage to no one but would provide me with ours of enjoyment, especially in retirement. If properly mounted and maintained it won't be going anywhere in a storm. Shortly after I had my TH5 put up(and I don't have a problem with the insistence of using a professional installer) we had hurricane force winds. The antenna stayed on my roof, no leaks, no roof damage at all. It was professionally and properly installed with using a tripod and guy wires. No one complained. I found with that antenna and an inverted V for 80/40 (which worked better than my Butternut HF2V vertical, I was able to enjoy the hobby. I have never run over 100 watts on any of my stations.

By the way, I would not move into a neighborhood which required me to drive a specific car nor do I want to move into a development which required me to give up my free time to join a board so that I can live my life enjoying my perfectly legal hobby.

Bob, I will tell you that if a particular HOA neighborhood that my wife and I would like to live in allowed me to install and antenna on my property, I' have no complaints about some of MY HOA fees going to support the neighborhood swimming pool. That's the price of living in a neighborhood as opposed to living alone in the woods. However, it is unacceptable to me to charge me fees for items I will never use and then tell me that on tip of those charges I can not make use of my own house to operate a legally licensed ham radio station (which would require me to mount an antenna on MY property). As to those who wold push the envelope, they exist in every walk of life. When I had my TH5 installed on the roof of my old house I had to get a permit from the township to mount that antenna on my roof. No big deal. I went to the town and had the inspector come out and approve my antenna. I wasn't offended that I had to seek permission from the building inspector. I could understand limits if I as a homeowner decided that I wanted to host weekly parties at my house. That could become an annoyance to my neighbors. My antennas are on my property. A spiderbeam on the roof of my home would cause damage to no one but would provide me with ours of enjoyment, especially in retirement. If properly mounted and maintained it won't be going anywhere in a storm. Shortly after I had my TH5 put up(and I don't have a problem with the insistence of using a professional installer) we had hurricane force winds. The antenna stayed on my roof, no leaks, no roof damage at all. It was professionally and properly installed with using a tripod and guy wires. No one complained. I found with that antenna and an inverted V for 80/40 (which worked better than my Butternut HF2V vertical, I was able to enjoy the hobby. I have never run over 100 watts on any of my stations.

By the way, I would not move into a neighborhood which required me to drive a specific car nor do I want to move into a development which required me to give up my free time to join a board so that I can live my life enjoying my perfectly legal hobby.

Well, there ya' go. We agree....it's all about the antenna restrictions, not hating the CC&R's/HOA's in general, and giving up all your "rights". Obviously, the requirement to drive newer white Fords is a total exaggeration . And I don't know of any HOA's that require you to join a board and give up your free time. People that want to participate as officers on the HOA board are elected by the residents. Also, most communities with amenities like clubhouses, fitness centers, pools, golf courses, etc, will charge fees for those who want them, and separate dues for necessary common area maintenance. You don't have to pay for amenities you don't want. There are a lot of misconceptions about HOA communities that just aren't true. Millions of people move into them, oblivious of the CC&R's, and live very happy and satisfying lives, no HOA disputes, without feeling their "rights" have been compromised.

In the late 1970's, I had a new home built on a small lot in a fairly upscale Philadelphia suburban subdivision. I erected 50 feet of Rohn 25 with a Mosley tri-bander...no permits, no builder permission. Don't know if my neighbors liked it, but they never said anything. Those days are gone.

Bob, I will tell you that if a particular HOA neighborhood that my wife and I would like to live in allowed me to install and antenna on my property, I' have no complaints about some of MY HOA fees going to support the neighborhood swimming pool. That's the price of living in a neighborhood as opposed to living alone in the woods. However, it is unacceptable to me to charge me fees for items I will never use and then tell me that on tip of those charges I can not make use of my own house to operate a legally licensed ham radio station (which would require me to mount an antenna on MY property). As to those who wold push the envelope, they exist in every walk of life. When I had my TH5 installed on the roof of my old house I had to get a permit from the township to mount that antenna on my roof. No big deal. I went to the town and had the inspector come out and approve my antenna. I wasn't offended that I had to seek permission from the building inspector. I could understand limits if I as a homeowner decided that I wanted to host weekly parties at my house. That could become an annoyance to my neighbors. My antennas are on my property. A spiderbeam on the roof of my home would cause damage to no one but would provide me with ours of enjoyment, especially in retirement. If properly mounted and maintained it won't be going anywhere in a storm. Shortly after I had my TH5 put up(and I don't have a problem with the insistence of using a professional installer) we had hurricane force winds. The antenna stayed on my roof, no leaks, no roof damage at all. It was professionally and properly installed with using a tripod and guy wires. No one complained. I found with that antenna and an inverted V for 80/40 (which worked better than my Butternut HF2V vertical, I was able to enjoy the hobby. I have never run over 100 watts on any of my stations.

By the way, I would not move into a neighborhood which required me to drive a specific car nor do I want to move into a development which required me to give up my free time to join a board so that I can live my life enjoying my perfectly legal hobby.

Well, there ya' go. We agree....it's all about the antenna restrictions, not hating the CC&R's/HOA's in general, and giving up all your "rights". Obviously, the requirement to drive newer white Fords is a total exaggeration . And I don't know of any HOA's that require you to join a board and give up your free time. People that want to participate as officers on the HOA board are elected by the residents. Also, most communities with amenities like clubhouses, fitness centers, pools, golf courses, etc, will charge fees for those who want them, and separate dues for necessary common area maintenance. You don't have to pay for amenities you don't want. There are a lot of misconceptions about HOA communities that just aren't true. Millions of people move into them, oblivious of the CC&R's, and live very happy and satisfying lives, no HOA disputes, without feeling their "rights" have been compromised.

In the late 1970's, I had a new home built on a small lot in a fairly upscale Philadelphia suburban subdivision. I erected 50 feet of Rohn 25 with a Mosley tri-bander...no permits, no builder permission. Don't know if my neighbors liked it, but they never said anything. Those days are gone.

73, Bob K7JQ

Having reread the thread for the sake of context, I apologize for the lack of spellchecking in my previous post. I don't think any reasonable person who wishes to live in a modern home dislikes HOA's strictly because they don't like the concept. That is why I suggested we go after the covenants and restrictions. They are not a private legal document. They are enforced through the courts under real estate law. If the federal government forbade the inclusion of any amateur radio restriction from those documents (which they have previously done with other restrictions) then more communities would be open to consider the placement of ham radio antennas on private property. That would unlikely mean that antennas would sprout up on roofs all over the community. It would mean that people who wish the make use of their federally licensed stations (Maybe, there would be one ham antenna every five miles or so) could do so.

Bob, I will tell you that if a particular HOA neighborhood that my wife and I would like to live in allowed me to install and antenna on my property, I' have no complaints about some of MY HOA fees going to support the neighborhood swimming pool. That's the price of living in a neighborhood as opposed to living alone in the woods. However, it is unacceptable to me to charge me fees for items I will never use and then tell me that on tip of those charges I can not make use of my own house to operate a legally licensed ham radio station (which would require me to mount an antenna on MY property). As to those who wold push the envelope, they exist in every walk of life. When I had my TH5 installed on the roof of my old house I had to get a permit from the township to mount that antenna on my roof. No big deal. I went to the town and had the inspector come out and approve my antenna. I wasn't offended that I had to seek permission from the building inspector. I could understand limits if I as a homeowner decided that I wanted to host weekly parties at my house. That could become an annoyance to my neighbors. My antennas are on my property. A spiderbeam on the roof of my home would cause damage to no one but would provide me with ours of enjoyment, especially in retirement. If properly mounted and maintained it won't be going anywhere in a storm. Shortly after I had my TH5 put up(and I don't have a problem with the insistence of using a professional installer) we had hurricane force winds. The antenna stayed on my roof, no leaks, no roof damage at all. It was professionally and properly installed with using a tripod and guy wires. No one complained. I found with that antenna and an inverted V for 80/40 (which worked better than my Butternut HF2V vertical, I was able to enjoy the hobby. I have never run over 100 watts on any of my stations.

By the way, I would not move into a neighborhood which required me to drive a specific car nor do I want to move into a development which required me to give up my free time to join a board so that I can live my life enjoying my perfectly legal hobby.

Well, there ya' go. We agree....it's all about the antenna restrictions, not hating the CC&R's/HOA's in general, and giving up all your "rights". Obviously, the requirement to drive newer white Fords is a total exaggeration . And I don't know of any HOA's that require you to join a board and give up your free time. People that want to participate as officers on the HOA board are elected by the residents. Also, most communities with amenities like clubhouses, fitness centers, pools, golf courses, etc, will charge fees for those who want them, and separate dues for necessary common area maintenance. You don't have to pay for amenities you don't want. There are a lot of misconceptions about HOA communities that just aren't true. Millions of people move into them, oblivious of the CC&R's, and live very happy and satisfying lives, no HOA disputes, without feeling their "rights" have been compromised.

In the late 1970's, I had a new home built on a small lot in a fairly upscale Philadelphia suburban subdivision. I erected 50 feet of Rohn 25 with a Mosley tri-bander...no permits, no builder permission. Don't know if my neighbors liked it, but they never said anything. Those days are gone.

73, Bob K7JQ

Having reread the thread for the sake of context, I apologize for the lack of spellchecking in my previous post. I don't think any reasonable person who wishes to live in a modern home dislikes HOA's strictly because they don't like the concept. That is why I suggested we go after the covenants and restrictions. They are not a private legal document. They are enforced through the courts under real estate law. If the federal government forbade the inclusion of any amateur radio restriction from those documents (which they have previously done with other restrictions) then more communities would be open to consider the placement of ham radio antennas on private property. That would unlikely mean that antennas would sprout up on roofs all over the community. It would mean that people who wish the make use of their federally licensed stations (Maybe, there would be one ham antenna every five miles or so) could do so.

No proglem on the spillcheking. In other words, let us have antennas, damnit!

Bob, I will tell you that if a particular HOA neighborhood that my wife and I would like to live in allowed me to install and antenna on my property, I' have no complaints about some of MY HOA fees going to support the neighborhood swimming pool. That's the price of living in a neighborhood as opposed to living alone in the woods. However, it is unacceptable to me to charge me fees for items I will never use and then tell me that on tip of those charges I can not make use of my own house to operate a legally licensed ham radio station (which would require me to mount an antenna on MY property). As to those who wold push the envelope, they exist in every walk of life. When I had my TH5 installed on the roof of my old house I had to get a permit from the township to mount that antenna on my roof. No big deal. I went to the town and had the inspector come out and approve my antenna. I wasn't offended that I had to seek permission from the building inspector. I could understand limits if I as a homeowner decided that I wanted to host weekly parties at my house. That could become an annoyance to my neighbors. My antennas are on my property. A spiderbeam on the roof of my home would cause damage to no one but would provide me with ours of enjoyment, especially in retirement. If properly mounted and maintained it won't be going anywhere in a storm. Shortly after I had my TH5 put up(and I don't have a problem with the insistence of using a professional installer) we had hurricane force winds. The antenna stayed on my roof, no leaks, no roof damage at all. It was professionally and properly installed with using a tripod and guy wires. No one complained. I found with that antenna and an inverted V for 80/40 (which worked better than my Butternut HF2V vertical, I was able to enjoy the hobby. I have never run over 100 watts on any of my stations.

By the way, I would not move into a neighborhood which required me to drive a specific car nor do I want to move into a development which required me to give up my free time to join a board so that I can live my life enjoying my perfectly legal hobby.

Well, there ya' go. We agree....it's all about the antenna restrictions, not hating the CC&R's/HOA's in general, and giving up all your "rights". Obviously, the requirement to drive newer white Fords is a total exaggeration . And I don't know of any HOA's that require you to join a board and give up your free time. People that want to participate as officers on the HOA board are elected by the residents. Also, most communities with amenities like clubhouses, fitness centers, pools, golf courses, etc, will charge fees for those who want them, and separate dues for necessary common area maintenance. You don't have to pay for amenities you don't want. There are a lot of misconceptions about HOA communities that just aren't true. Millions of people move into them, oblivious of the CC&R's, and live very happy and satisfying lives, no HOA disputes, without feeling their "rights" have been compromised.

In the late 1970's, I had a new home built on a small lot in a fairly upscale Philadelphia suburban subdivision. I erected 50 feet of Rohn 25 with a Mosley tri-bander...no permits, no builder permission. Don't know if my neighbors liked it, but they never said anything. Those days are gone.

73, Bob K7JQ

Having reread the thread for the sake of context, I apologize for the lack of spellchecking in my previous post. I don't think any reasonable person who wishes to live in a modern home dislikes HOA's strictly because they don't like the concept. That is why I suggested we go after the covenants and restrictions. They are not a private legal document. They are enforced through the courts under real estate law. If the federal government forbade the inclusion of any amateur radio restriction from those documents (which they have previously done with other restrictions) then more communities would be open to consider the placement of ham radio antennas on private property. That would unlikely mean that antennas would sprout up on roofs all over the community. It would mean that people who wish the make use of their federally licensed stations (Maybe, there would be one ham antenna every five miles or so) could do so.

No proglem on the spillcheking. In other words, let us have antennas, damnit!

IMHO, HOA's represent an economic uncertainty to the average homeowner. Why? because each homeowner is in a partnership with each other, good or bad, and that's determined by how its run as a business. Every HOA out there is just one election away from possibly having a BAD Board.

Additionally, outside economic pressure can effect the health of the HOA, remember 2008, the day the financial world stood still. Lots of HOA's went bankrupt in 2009/2010 and that had a negative impact on each HOA members home value.

And for me, that equals to many Kings over MY Castle, NO Thank You.....

IMHO, HOA's represent an economic uncertainty to the average homeowner. Why? because each homeowner is in a partnership with each other, good or bad, and that's determined by how its run as a business. Every HOA out there is just one election away from possibly having a BAD Board.

Additionally, outside economic pressure can effect the health of the HOA, remember 2008, the day the financial world stood still. Lots of HOA's went bankrupt in 2009/2010 and that had a negative impact on each HOA members home value.

And for me, that equals to many Kings over MY Castle, NO Thank You.....

I agree but the problem still is that in many if not most of the country there are no non HOA neighborhoods being built today.

Lots of HOA's went bankrupt in 2009/2010 and that had a negative impact on each HOA members home value.

How so? It should go up. Property without an HOA are more valuable than ones that are encumbered with one.

My opinion...can't agree with that (WS4E's post). Statistics? I don't have any from my point of view. But I believe the majority of the population buy a house based on its intrinsic value to them and their individual requirements, and are oblivious to the provisions contained in the CC&R's (don't even read them). All they know is that they have to pay HOA dues. Very common in this day and age.

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