First she wasn't killed by homeopathic medicine, but by the lack of conventional medical care.

And secondly the conviction for manslaughter was not because they gave her homeopathic treatment but because they neglected the advice they were given. Homeopathy may well be an appropriate remedy for some conditions. What makes this case so sad was that when it was clear that what they were doing was not working, they still persevered. Also the parents never realized that the little girl's life was in danger. They thought they still had time to try their remedies...

She died due to complications with her condition which hadn't been treated appropriately, Homeopathy didn't kill her neglect did!

if this was a case of the treatment itself being the cause of death then I would agree more with you. Homeopathy may be unscientific, but water only kills by drowning.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

now if you had used this, Like I said I would of agreed more with you, but I wouldn't of said this was a homeopathic treatment as it is far more concentrated than normal, 2/100 parts instead of 1/1000000 or less, and this case was a misuse of the term homeopathic medicine, in my understanding of the treatment.

but anything which is claimed as a medicine whether scientific or not should be tested, if not for public safety, then for public knowledge of actual effectiveness, even if the effect is placebo.

Just curious have you ever watched the Penn&Teller show Bullshit? don't think it is still aired but there are some great episodes which deal with this phoney sudoscience, and paranormal garbage, but the other topics are damn good too, the experiments are hysterical.

This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!Blog,-Some Suttas Translated,Ajahn Chah."Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."

Annabel wrote:ANY homeopathic remedy, given to a healthy person, will cause "Test" symptoms. Symptoms of a disease.

Some of it will, but much of it is diluted so much by water that it has virtually no effect on a person, whatsoever, apart from being a placebo.

Annabel wrote:However, if you apply a high potency of Arsenic, like D30 or 200, the symptoms begin to vanish within an hour, and the healing process begins through an increased detoxification.

Homeopathy is stunning in the hands of an experienced homeopath, and dangerous for laypeople.

What do you mean by "detoxification"? Snake oil salesmen use words like this without really clarifying: What exactly is the specific mechanism behind homeopathy and why has it not been verified by science?

Any confidence in the ability of homeopathy to treat anything except the income stream of the 'practitioner' would be appropriately treated by watching Richard Dawkins' excellent series The enemies of reason

Dawkins criticizes the growing field of alternative medicine which does not pass the same objective and statistical rigour as scientifically derived treatments using controlled double-blind studies. Without verifiable evidence, alternative therapies must rely on biased anecdotes and word of mouth to perpetuate. Dawkins observes these treatments have fanciful rationales and rituals behind them, with many alternative treatments employing pseudoscientific jargon such as "energy", "vibration" or "quantum theory" to give themselves greater credence to patients.

Homeopathy is singled out as an example of a mainstream alternative medicine that has public support and taxpayer funding through the National Health Service. Dawkins explains that the rationale behind it is unfounded and demonstrates that the magnitude of dilution required is so great the patient is practically imbibing pure water. This is illustrated by the typical homeopathic dilution of 30C (1:10030, that is thirty steps of dilution by 1% each time), which requires a drop of active ingredient dissolved in a body of water greater than the whole ocean.[5] Dawkins cites a 2005 meta-analysis by The Lancet that concludes that homeopathy has no consistently demonstrable effect on health.[6]-- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Enemie ... th_Service

Frankly, I agree with the court's decision. I've seen too many other similar examples of adults killing their children through their own stupidity and ignorance.Kind regards

Ben

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Annabel wrote:ANY homeopathic remedy, given to a healthy person, will cause "Test" symptoms. Symptoms of a disease.

Some of it will, but much of it is diluted so much by water that it has virtually no effect on a person, whatsoever, apart from being a placebo.

Annabel wrote:However, if you apply a high potency of Arsenic, like D30 or 200, the symptoms begin to vanish within an hour, and the healing process begins through an increased detoxification.

Homeopathy is stunning in the hands of an experienced homeopath, and dangerous for laypeople.

What do you mean by "detoxification"? Snake oil salesmen use words like this without really clarifying: What exactly is the specific mechanism behind homeopathy and why has it not been verified by science?

Some of it will, but much of it is diluted so much by water that it has virtually no effect on a person, whatsoever, apart from being a placebo.

Hi, Indi, I have to admit that my languageskills are insufficient to explain the thoughts that Samuel Hahnemann had when he pondered about the reasons for sickness and how to best cure them.

He was a totally unique pioneer, way ahead of his time, and he is also ahead of us, because we still don't know exactly WHY it works. Only THAT it works.

We have countless evidence for it, amongst them first class doctors.

I thought I will give you 2 links, in which your questions are adressed by more eloquent people than me, and also quote some:

Just like it is for some people difficult to understand rebirth and karma,it is for others equally difficult to understand Einsteins relativity theory, calculus, or space flight.

That homeopathy is a serious, albeit alternative method, is illuminated by the vita of those 4 Physicians, who are certainly not falling into the category" Snake-oil charlatan", on the contrary.

Dr. James Tyler Kent. Dr. James Tyler Kent was born in 1849, a native of woodhull, new York. He graduated from Electic Medical institute, cincinnati, ohio in 1871 and the Homeopathic medical college of missouri, St. Louis, where he was awarded the Diploma in 1889. He was Professor of Anatomy in the American Medical College St. Louis, 1877-78 about which time his attention was forcibly directed to Homeopathy through the serious illness of his wife, whose case refused to yield to any other treatment except Homeopathic. He then became a careful student of Hahnemann's Organon which resulted in his complete conversion to Homeopathy. He was one of the ablest teachers and exponents of the Homeopathic school in America. His contribution to the Homeopathic literature are known by their strength rather than their length and include more prominently his Repertory, Homeopathic Philosophy, Lectures on Materia Medica and Lesser Writings. Lectures on MM Lectures on Philosophy How to study Repertory Lesser Writing

Dr. Hering Dr. Constantine Hering was born on 1st Jan. 1800 in Oschath in Saxony. He studied Medicine and then at the request of his teacher Dr. Henrich Robbi studied Homeopathy in order to write a book against Homeopathy. But since his infected hand which was to have been amputated was healed by Homeopathy, he became converted to Homeopathy and became one of the most famous Homeopaths. After getting his degree from Woodsburg he went to Surinam on an expedition. There he extracted the poison of the Lachesis snake and proved it. From then on he practised, taught and wrote on Homeopathy for the rest of his life, so much so, that Hahnemann called him as one of his 'most efficient disciples' and 'as the truest and most zealous propagator of our art.' When he died on July 23rd 1880 his friend Dr. Nickle said of him "He who never rested, rests". Guiding Symptoms The Homeopathic Domestic Physician Model Cures Condensed Materia Medica Analytical Repertory of the mind

Dr. Sircar Dr. Mahendra Lal Sircar, C, I .E" M.D.. D. L., was not only the greatest Homeopath of his time in India, but also a great scientist. He was born on Nov. 2, 1833 in Paikpara, near Howrah. He appeared at the M.D. Examination in 1863 and came out first. He devoted his life wholly to the propagation of the principles of Homeopathy. The Calcutta Journal of Medicine, edited by him, was started in Jan. 1868 for this purpose. In the field of physical science, Dr. Sircar has made great contributions and was' a pioneer of .scientific research in India. Dr. J. C. Bose and Dr. P. C. Ray were also inspired by him. Recurrent malarial fever and bronchial asthma clouded the evening of his life and he died on Feb. 23, 1904.

BogerProminent as a physician and author of a number of medical text- books, Dr.Boger came to Parkersburg U.S.A. in 1888 and had since been engaged in the practice of medicine. He graduated from the Philadephia College of Medicine.He later studied at the Hahnemann Homeopathic Medical College in Philadelphia, from which also he graduated. During his long career in medical practice and research, Boger contributed important scientific text-books including the Synoptic Key of the Materia Medica addition to his authorship of a number o" articles for medical journals. His authorship of several scientific textbooks, his analysis and construction of Repertory, his lively translation of several medical books from notable German authors and his indefatigable labour for the production of orginal works, like the Times of the Remedies and Moon phases and his provings of Samarskite etc. made him universally recognised as an author and physician of great eminence. Dr. Boger passed away on 2nd Sep, 1935, at the age of 74. Synoptic Key to MM BB Characteristic MM Times Of Remedies & moon phases Studies in the philosophy of Healing Study of MM and Case taking.

It is highly unlikely, that 4 men of many more, used to scientific work, particularly in medicine, would have collective partial benightedness and fall prey to quackery and yet at the same time continue to do scientific work in other fields.

I also had lifelong diseases vanishing with homeopathy, and am since a follower of this method.

I just tried it out.

I can live with it when homeopathy is not accepted, btw,

(Just so long I have it.... )

Animals heal with homeopathy just like we do.

The horseclub in my town treats horses with homeopathy, with excellent results.

Of course also with other methods, and I find it important to know when which method works the best.

The pharmaceutical industry has gone to great lengths throughout history to spread propaganda to discredit and defame homeopathic practitioners since the beginning of the allopathic approach. Not only that, but the original pharmacists were NOT health professionals, but mining and oil professionals. Don't get me wrong, I think there have been a lot of benefits that have come with modern medicine, especially in the area of emergency surgery. If someone breaks an arm and needs their bone set back in place, great! ...bring on the modern medical approach. If someone needs a new heart, great! ...many lives have been saved through surgical procedures that were not possible in the past. However, a lot of the chemicals that are used in the area of "modern medicine" are very questionable. For example, did you know that the chemical paracetamol, consumed by millions of people daily for something as minor as a headache, is a derivitive of petroleum by-products? It's no wonder when you consider who began "Big Pharma".

Don't believe everything you hear from the news or seemingly authoritative sources such as FDA. The FDA, along side other organisations, are trying to push international laws to make vitamins in food illegal as well as many other ridiculous changes to global standards for what we put in our bodies (Research "Codex Alimentarius" for more info on this controversial topic).

Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return2) Throwing things away3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

Mawkish1983 wrote:I have seen absolutely no scientific evidence whatsoever that suggests homeopathy is a viable medical tool. If you want to believe in magic, that's fine but please don't dress it up as anything else.

No, Mawkish, I'm not trying to "dress up" homeopathy as anything. Why would I want to do that?

I am just sharing experience with you, because I am obliged to the truth.

I am also not "changing the subject. Try not to go ad hominem, please.

Since you based your dismissal of homeopathy on a lack of scientific evidence, I simply showed you, that " a lack of evidence" is irrelevant to you when it comes to Buddhism.

Let's return to medicine now ,friend..

Let's assume that you have a loved one with a braintumor..

Would you want a carpenter or butcher to do the surgery, or a brain specialist?

Likewise,if your child is ill, very ill, you can't treat it yourself with homeopathy.

You need a specialist.

To try it yourself without skills is utterly stupid and tragic.

But can you really blame the method for the mistakes human beings make applying it?

You need a pilot to fly a jumbo jet, not some parent, you need a brainsurgeon to remove a tumor, and not some parent, you need a homeopath to treat a disease properly, not some wellmeaning, but fanatical, and ignorant parent.

It's as simple as that.

Homeopathy is an empiric traditional method, and runs in the same tracks as acupuncture, Tibetan medicine and Ayurveda, albeit younger..

Do you want to dismiss those as witchcraft as well?

I can see the benefit of basing one's life around what the Buddha taught.

Yes. Me too. And I can also look back at the benefits homeopathy remedies have had upon me and upon others, as I work with them since 20 years now, also with animals.

The healings are also not Placebo effects, because those would vanish after ~ 6 weeks.

I don't want to convert you,Mawkish,don't get me wrong. I only see it with sadness that you should be so biased towards a method that you haven't studied in detail nor tried. I would see our exchange of thoughts as successful, if you could agree: I can't pass a final judgement beause I didn't study the matter in depth, nor took anything myself.

Guy wrote:The pharmaceutical industry has gone to great lengths throughout history to spread propaganda to discredit and defame homeopathic practitioners since the beginning of the allopathic approach.

What is their motive? Could they not sell homeopathic medicines too?

As an industry, yes, they can lobby the government to craft policies to their benefit... But as individual companies, they have an incentive to develop new drugs and, if it is apparently often dangerous, homeopathy could bas classed a "drug" and thus patented.

Guy wrote:Not only that, but the original pharmacists were NOT health professionals, but mining and oil professionals.

Back then, were oil and mining monopolistic industries the way they are now?

Annabel wrote:We have countless evidence for it, amongst them first class doctors.

This is anecdotal, though. The overwhelming majority of doctors regard homeopathy as pseudoscience.

Homeopathy basically seems to have developed historically as a misunderstanding of the nature of the immune system's anti-bodies... It was observed that if a person got sick, they could develop an immunity to the disease (through the body producing anti-bodies). So, a vaccine is just a weakened version of a disease, in order to create anti-bodies. Well, Samuel Hahnemann misunderstood this process to mean that ANY harmful substance, in diluted amounts, which causes a particular condition... is the cure for this condition. But that's clearly ludicrous, like suggesting a small puff on a cigarette is the cure for cancer!!

Annabel wrote:We have countless evidence for it, amongst them first class doctors.

This is anecdotal, though. The overwhelming majority of doctors regard homeopathy as pseudoscience.

Indi, does quantity equal qualiiy?

Also: the overwhelming majority of doctors have to pay off expensive high tech machines, and so they have to make as much money as possible. This is only possible if you wave a new patient in every 10 minutes, or sooner, and write out a quick prescription for : antibiotic, antidepressant, cortison, betablocker, painkiller, hallu-killer,etc.

The homeopathic will spend hours investigating the patients exact symptoms, family diseases, and compare the patients symptoms with remedies that produce similar symptoms in a healthy person.

I'll give you an example from myself.

I used to get a skin disease on my upper arms each fall. It would get larger and larger and resist all cremes and therapies from the doctors.

Come spring,it would disappear by it self, after exposition to sunlight...

When I began to study homeopathy, I looked for a remedy for this.

I found one with the description:

"Patient gets skin irritations of all sorts only in winter,is completely free of it in summer."

The name is"Psorinum" . It sounds a bit like Psoriasis, doesn't it?

Anyhow, I took 3 tiny pills.and felt nothing.

But after 2 weeks the rash had completely vanished, and that was before X-mas.It usually disappeared in March or April.

It never returned. I had had this for so many years. No doctor could help.

Another example.

My father had tuberculosis as a boy, but completely healed from it.

However, I had Tuberculosis symptoms often , without having the infection...

Samul Hahnemann concluded,that people must somehow pass on toxins of past infections to their offsprings, children, and in thisway, certain tendencies run in a family. They get "inherited".

I studied "Tuberculinum,"the remedy for Tuberculosis toxins, and decided to play ginny pig and try it on myself.

I took 2 tiny pills of Tuberculinum D 200, this means the substance is diluted 200 times in decimal steps.

The wellbeing I had in the next days was unbelievable. I lost the TB symptoms for good.

I have tested countless remedies in my sceptical beginner's phase.

A few times I had the wrong dilution, the lower, the stronger, and felt worse, and that taught me respect.

I'm very thankful I found this method. I became stronger, when all other things hadn't worked.

---The trouble is that you think you have time------Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe------It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

Annabel wrote:Homeopathy ... runs in the same tracks as acupuncture, Tibetan medicine and Ayurveda, albeit younger..

Do you want to dismiss those as witchcraft as well?

Yep if I need medical help I go to the medical professionals and trust medicine that has been rigorously scientifically tested. Homeopathy has not. I have read paper after paper in reputable medical journals about 'alternative remedies' of all kinds, including homeopathy, accupuncture, hot cups, stones, crystals, you name it. In all the scientifically performed experiments I have read about there has been ZERO evidence that the 'alternative remedies' work. So, just as I trust a pilot to fly a plane, I trust mainstream perscribed accredited thoroughly tested and universally accepted medical practitioners over 'homepathy practitioners'.

But, as I've said again and again, if you feel happy giving your money to these people and taking whatever they spoon-feed you, fine science it is not.

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.” - Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:in mountain clefts and chasms,loud gush the streamlets,but great rivers flow silently.- Sutta Nipata 3.725