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Well that may not be the best example since both the 3 and 5 are extremely nice cars, and now that the F30 is so roomy inside, you can make the argument to choose the 3 over the 5 based on other factors.

Still, everytime I walk through a parking lot and see a loaded to the gills Malibu/Fusion/Accord etc, I'm still dumbfounded. If you're already going to drop 30K+ on a car, why not just plunk down a few more grand and get a base BMW/Acura/Infiniti. I know the insurance and premium gas will also cost more during ownership, but the up-leveled car is just SO MUCH better.

To be fair, the modern midsize volume selling sedan are great cars. I seriously considered the newly redesigned Accord and Altima while I was shopping for me new car. However, a big part of their greatness is their value for money, which goes out the window once you start throwing in options. If I had decided to buy an Accord instead, I would have gotten a lightly optioned example as well.

To many people, all cars are the same when it comes to driving characteristics.

For example, if I am a person who sits in 60 minutes of bumper to bumper traffic going to work, the sporty suspension of a BMW versus a Chevrolet might not mean as much to me as getting leather seats, power seats, moonroof, satellite radio, navigation, heated seats, heated steering wheel, and on and on and spending less money. Better to be comfortable and entertained at 5 mph on the highway two hours a day then being a car without Bluetooth or nav just for the sake of a more spirited drive which one never gets to experience.

I'd venture to guess that 80% of the American car buying public cares more about the technology and the sumptuous comfort features than they do about what we call 'performance'.

Guys, I have a quote pending from a broker on the 328i x-drive. I know I over built the car and it's going to come back over my budget. I even had them get prices with US v. ED maybe I can save a few bucks and go on vacation!

Here's what I submitted... take a look and help me narrow down some options. Don't just say "get rid of this you don't need it" help me understand why I really don't need or want it.

I actually ordered almost the same car as you and thought it was getting a bit silly sticker wise, so I dropped rear-view-camera, sport auto, HK, and winter package (got heated seats). I also rather doubt that you've any need for the auto high beams.

My car stickered at about $52K and I got it for about $48K on lease. The only option I wish I had stuck with is the backup camera... it would make tail-in parking a breeze... next one will have that for sure, if it's not already a standard feature by then. Also as others point out, in Long Island it's rather questionable if you even need the x-drive.

You live on Long Island, no need to option your car like you live in Antarctica. My advice:

Kill:

- XDrive
- Cold Weather Package
- Harmon Kardon
- Auto High Beams

Add:

+ Heated Seats

Rationale:

* A good set of snow tires and RWD is sufficient for your climate. I've lived in New Hampshire and now Bergen County, AWD is overkill here. We only get 2-3 rough days; snow tires are just fine for the typical 1" of snow on those days. I have a second car, almost regret even getting the snow tires on my RWD 328i.

* Not sure if you are aware, but the standard audio system on the F30 in the USA is the "premium" audio system they get in Europe and pay extra for. It is very, very good, and while I haven't heard the HK system I can't see how its worth $875 if you're trying to trim things back.

* Again, in your climate, you don't need the full Cold Weather Package. Just get the heated seats and be done with it.

* Auto high beams? Unless you live in a very dark area with no street lighting, this is unnecessary. I put on my high beams maybe 2x a week because the xenon's are so damn good, just don't need them unless I'm in pitch black conditions, certainly don't need them to function automatically.

BJ

All of the above. The only possible tweak to this, if you're really set on the cold weather package, is to drop the premium package. The cold weather package automatically adds the leather seats, which come with the lumbar support. You save 3100 (for premium) - 1450 (for leather) = $1650 and you lose the ability to unlock the door without pressing a button on the FOB, but by pressing the door handle itself, and the ability to open the trunk by swinging your foot under the bumper. To me, that's not worth $1650. I'd much rather have a heated seat/steering wheel/lumbar support/leather seats and $1650 to spend on hookers and blow.

Rental cars are 1 thing, but you can get a nav and rear view camera now in the Malibu and cars like the Nissan Sentra, Ford Focus, and other cars on the bottom rung.

EDIT: Sort of embarrassing to be driving around in a $45,000 car without a Nav and rear view camera, and then someone pulls up next to you in a Chevy Malibu and has that stuff...

This ties back to the misperception of the F30.

Back in the day, you could get a stripped E46 and still wind up in an extremely responsive enthusiasts car that handled well and gave you a lot of value for the buck.

Today, the stripped F30 doesn't have that same type of enthusiasts suspension and completely lacks most of the creature comforts found on other cars in lower classes at half the price. Today, to replicate that E46 stripper you have to spend thousands of dollars on suspension upgrades and packages. The times have changed, and the 3 Series is not what it once was. You now have to pay to get more just like all other luxury cars.

What is happening quite often now is that people don't understand this. They think that being noble and buying a stripped F30 is closer to the 'core' of what the BMW 3 Series is all about. Unfortunately, they would be very wrong about that. Not only do you have to pay for all the tech goodies and comfort features, but now you have to pay for the sports performance too.

It's putting people either in a car that disappoints them or a car that is too expensive for them. That's why this particular conversation gets so controversial.

Agree again. If I was on a specific budget, there's no way I would choose a stripped 5 Series over a loaded 3 Series. BMWs are not called the ultimate driving machine for nothing. Part of that experience has to do with all the technology, all the comfort features, all of the sophistication in the details. Buying a stripped BMW of any sort is a foolish exercise. Go buy yourself a fully loaded Honda, you'll enjoy it more.

BJ

Yeah, can you imagine driving around in a stripped down 5 without a Nav or rear view camera????

To get an F30 without the Technology Package is absolutely criminal. It makes the car. Those who say they don't need it are normally those who shouldn't be driving a BMW anyway, people who can't afford the $50,000 version and strip it down to nothing just for the sake of the badge.
BJ

+1

Too many people look at the base price and fool themselves into thinking they can afford a BMW.

Just for the hell of it I went to the Honda and BMW web sites and built a fully loaded Accord and a fully loaded 328i.

This is what I found when I went to the "estimate a payment" page after I completed the build.

I don't know if these numbers are representative of what it actually cost to lease these vehicles but it appears that the 328i is a much better value than the Accord if you are leasing. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the BMW will have a much higher residual value.

Thanks for all the great replies. I'll touch on many of your points and my rationale here. Some options are non-negotiable to me because I don't want a stripped down car especially coming from a fully loaded Maxima. Yes I know it's not a BMW in any way, shape or form, but it has so many of the toys (which I like). I have panoramic sunroof (not avail on BMW), heated seats, premium audio, sport mode with shifters, backup camera, and a few others.

2013 BMW 328i xDrive Sedan ($38,850) ($53,725 with options) So x-drive might be a great saving point! I've only been living in NY for 5 years and 3 years had terrible snow and my cars had difficulty moving around. Never been able to climb my hill where I live (huntington) with factory tires. My cousin has G37 with AWD and gets around everywhere. This year and last we had almost no snow, so it's not an every year occuranceSo this is definitely on the chopping board but we'll see...

+Cold Weather Package ($950) Absolutely agree that I could drop this, however I want the heated steering wheel. Once I start getting numbers if I'm too high I might drop this one and opt for heated seats. Thanks!

+Dynamic Handling Package ($1,000) So if I get x-drive keep this? RWD drop this? Not sure the affect of losing this one. The demo cars I've driven both had this.

+Lighting Package ($900) Glad to see no one really disagree with this except for the guys that say drop everything

+Premium Package ($3100) keeping it....

+Technology Package ($3100) this is where I like toys... I really want a HUD. I Used to have one and have been wanting a car with it again for a long time. I was so freakin' excited when I heard they were offering it in a 3-series!

+Sport Automatic Transmission with Paddles ($500) This is probably a novelty to move so I guess I could drop this if needed.

+Harman Kardon Sound System ($875) I'll have to listen to both before I make a decision here but I consider myself an audiophile and planned on getting the best available since I am not going to install a custom stereo in a lease

+Automatic High Beams ($250) This is a take it or leave it... I know... It's on the top fo the chopping block if needed but then again its only $250...

+Park Distance Control ($750) I tore apart the Driver's Assistance Package and manually selected Rear-View Camera and BMW Config required me to add PDC. Otherwise I would have removed this no questions asked.

+Rear-View Camera ($400)just need it in a car of this class. i use mine a lot today but not saying I need one - want one.

I don't know if these numbers are representative of what it actually cost to lease these vehicles but it appears that the 328i is a much better value than the Accord if you are leasing. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the BMW will have a much higher residual value.

Thanks for all the great replies. I'll touch on many of your points and my rationale here. Some options are non-negotiable to me because I don't want a stripped down car especially coming from a fully loaded Maxima. Yes I know it's not a BMW in any way, shape or form, but it has so many of the toys (which I like). I have panoramic sunroof (not avail on BMW), heated seats, premium audio, sport mode with shifters, backup camera, and a few others.

2013 BMW 328i xDrive Sedan ($38,850) ($53,725 with options) So x-drive might be a great saving point! I've only been living in NY for 5 years and 3 years had terrible snow and my cars had difficulty moving around. Never been able to climb my hill where I live (huntington) with factory tires. My cousin has G37 with AWD and gets around everywhere. This year and last we had almost no snow, so it's not an every year occuranceSo this is definitely on the chopping board but we'll see...

+Cold Weather Package ($950) Absolutely agree that I could drop this, however I want the heated steering wheel. Once I start getting numbers if I'm too high I might drop this one and opt for heated seats. Thanks!

+Dynamic Handling Package ($1,000) So if I get x-drive keep this? RWD drop this? Not sure the affect of losing this one. The demo cars I've driven both had this.

+Lighting Package ($900) Glad to see no one really disagree with this except for the guys that say drop everything

+Premium Package ($3100) keeping it....

+Technology Package ($3100) this is where I like toys... I really want a HUD. I Used to have one and have been wanting a car with it again for a long time. I was so freakin' excited when I heard they were offering it in a 3-series!

+Sport Automatic Transmission with Paddles ($500) This is probably a novelty to move so I guess I could drop this if needed.

+Harman Kardon Sound System ($875) I'll have to listen to both before I make a decision here but I consider myself an audiophile and planned on getting the best available since I am not going to install a custom stereo in a lease

+Automatic High Beams ($250) This is a take it or leave it... I know... It's on the top fo the chopping block if needed but then again its only $250...

+Park Distance Control ($750) I tore apart the Driver's Assistance Package and manually selected Rear-View Camera and BMW Config required me to add PDC. Otherwise I would have removed this no questions asked.

+Rear-View Camera ($400)just need it in a car of this class. i use mine a lot today but not saying I need one - want one.

Very logical.

I once had a loaded Maxima -- so I know where you're coming from.

Also, I was trying to avoid another HK religous war, but there is no way I'd ever drop that either.

AWD is the biggest bang for your buck in terms of things to drop. $2K right there.

EDIT: By the way, my FWD Maxima was the worst car in the snow that I ever had. MY RWD e90 with all seasons was better.

So leasing a 328i here with tx is +4028$/yr more than an Accord Touring V6.

I have no idea if those figures I posted have any basis in reality but if they do not it is rather foolish for BMW and Honda to have them available on their web sites, particularly in Honda's case as it will very likely chase away potential customers.

I don't know if these numbers are representative of what it actually cost to lease these vehicles but it appears that the 328i is a much better value than the Accord if you are leasing. Perhaps this is due to the fact that the BMW will have a much higher residual value.

CA

A Honda Accord is a great car.

I was talking about cars on the bottom rung of the ladder.

Ford Focus, Nissan Sentra, Chevy Malibu (although some will contend that this competes directly with the Honda Accord), etc.

Seriously, don't you think it's sort of silly to be driving around in a stripped down 528 that doesn't have a Nav and rear view camera?

BJ is right. At that point, you're purchasing the car strictly for image and throwing out any sort of common sense whatsoever...

Dude, You're concerned about budget yet you built a 328i with every possible option?? Sportline is worth it. You gaet a lot for your money. The sport seats are a must and the sportline wheels look great. X drive and heated seats because you live in New York are ok. Harmon Kardon and shift paddles are cool. Ask yourself, will you really use the shift paddles or just floor it when you want more power? The tech, premium, high beams, lighting, dynamic handling, park distance, rear view cameras are all over the top options due to huge cost. A base 328i IS ALREADY LOADED! All the options just make it better. Lets be serious. Good luck with your purchase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by exl_ent_v6

Guys, I have a quote pending from a broker on the 328i x-drive. I know I over built the car and it's going to come back over my budget. I even had them get prices with US v. ED maybe I can save a few bucks and go on vacation!

Here's what I submitted... take a look and help me narrow down some options. Don't just say "get rid of this you don't need it" help me understand why I really don't need or want it.

BJ,
I appreciate all your posts on here but just so you know.... There are people out there who want their sport sedans to lean more towards the sport side than the luxury side. I tried to read the manual for the 328i and all the tech, idrive instructions made my head hurt. I can't believe how complicated it is to do simple things and all the options with idrive. I honestly wish BMW made an "old school" version or the 3 series. They could probably take 200lbs of electronics off the car and lower the price by $3000. I already think the X1 is a prime example of this. Less electronics and the older "platform" make the base price $6000 less and you still get the same engine and transmission. I ended up going with an M Sport manual with Harmon Kardon and red leather. I value going fast, bright colors, a great stereo. I wouldn't even care if the car had idrive. Also my comfort limit on spending was about $40k. I ended up at $41K give or take. Enjoy your loaded beauty. Some of us just can't spend that much and still appreciate BMW.

The average American drives 15,000 miles per year at an average of 28 MPH on a combination of residential streets and public highways.

"Driving" is not taking a hairpin turn at 80 MPH. "Driving" is taking the kids to travel baseball games, taking the wife to the mall, commuting at rush hour. You can take a sport suspension and throw it out the window in those conditions. You need a good audio system, a navigation system, satellite radio, backup camera, and park distance sensors to have "enthusiasm" for typical driving conditions.

Put another way, drivers have the need to open their trunk with their right foot far more than they have the need to use it on the accelerator. Funny thing about people who can afford $50,000 German luxury cars. They can afford $15,000 Miata's, Civic's, and E36's as weekend cars for the type of fun you subscribe to.

There used to be a time that you got A+ Powerup credit on Bimmerfest for your throwback attitude; wrong forum for that now. The dinosaur myth of the 3 Series as a factory performance car with a badge are long over. Move on. BMW has.

But you are already getting ripped off by getting a 4-cyl. instead of a proper 6.

Yeah, if you're talking about the 5, that just adds to how ridiculous it is to buy a stripped down 4-cyl 528, without a nav and a rear view camera for $48,000. It would take a complete lack of common sense to do that. All you're buying is the badge, and quite frankly, you're getting seriously ripped off at that point. I'd be a 1000x happier in a Dodge Charger RT/MAX.

In terms of the 3, I'd NEVER EVER consider the 4-cyl 328 a rip-off. I'd be perfectly happy with it. I'm going with a 335, but there is nothing wrong with a 328 at all.

"Driving" is not taking a hairpin turn at 80 MPH. "Driving" is taking the kids to travel baseball games, taking the wife to the mall, commuting at rush hour. You can take a sport suspension and throw it out the window in those conditions. You need a good audio system, a navigation system, satellite radio, backup camera, and park distance sensors to have "enthusiasm" for typical driving conditions.

That's more commuting than driving.

Quote:

The dinosaur myth of the 3 Series as a factory performance car with a badge are long over. Move on. BMW has.

BJ

Not it is not. That's why the 335i is still there. Not as a "factory performance car", but rather as a "factory fun-to-drive machine", where pleasure is above efficiency. And not only a commuter. I think that you need a Lexus. BMW are not for you.