July 26, 2011 - Fox News reports (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/26/atf-accused-in-congressional-report-arming-cartel-for-war-through-operation/) that a congressional report indicates that the ATF, through "Fast and Furious" was the primary arms source for the Sinaloa Cartel, helping them to buy 1,026 weapons worth more than $650,000. When ATF agents in Mexico reported this "flood of weapons" they were told "everything is under control". Perhaps the most devestating aspect of the report is that Lanny Breuer, the head of the Criminal Division of the Justice Department, was fully briefed on the number of guns and who they were going to. This removes any doubt that high ranking DOJ managers knew of the operation. Breuer's boss is AG Eric Holder, Holder's boss is President Obama.

Santa Cruz Armory

07-26-2011, 12:17 AM

Looks like someone is tugging on that thread... things are starting to unravel.

incredablehefey

07-26-2011, 1:13 AM

wait a minute.... whats going on in here? is this some sort of "code"? :p

GOEX FFF

07-26-2011, 4:36 AM

Well, we don't need a translator when looking at a picture to understand what oath swearing corruption is.

Waterboard this ENTIRE Administration - right down to the Tsar of Paperclips - at GITMO, 'til they squeal like Ned Beatty! :mad:

goodlookin1

07-26-2011, 7:31 AM

Looks like lots of people know how to use Google Translate ;)

But seriously, their heads better roll for this. "Truth will out"!

CHS

07-26-2011, 8:19 AM

a congressional report indicates that the ATF, through "Fast and Furious" was the primary arms source for the Sinaloa Cartel, helping them to buy 1,026 weapons worth more than $650,000.

Uhhhh, no.

Fast and Furious is and was a huge deal, and heads need to roll. But there is no way and no proof that this operation was "the primary arms source" for the cartels. Sorry, but that just pegs my BS meter and makes it hard to take the rest of the story seriously.

J.D.Allen

07-26-2011, 8:24 AM

THE PRIMARY arms source for the sinaloa cartel, a major criminal organization that we are supposed to be dismantling and destroying. I. Am. Outraged. I cannot believe this could happen. And no one in the MSM is really even talking about it. Un-frickin-believeable.

Calplinker

07-26-2011, 8:38 AM

Waterboard this ENTIRE Administration - right down to the Tsar of Paperclips - at GITMO, 'til they squeal like Ned Beatty! :mad:

Poor Ned. He'll never live down that scene from Deliverance. :D

vantec08

07-26-2011, 8:39 AM

As they said during Iran-Contra, something this nefarious can NOT be undertaken without WH knowledge.

donw

07-26-2011, 8:39 AM

THE PRIMARY arms source for the sinaloa cartel, a major criminal organization that we are supposed to be dismantling and destroying. I. Am. Outraged. I cannot believe this could happen. And no one in the MSM is really even talking about it. Un-frickin-believeable.

I'm still in total disbelief that we, the American people, elected the current occupant of the white house...so, it's no shock to see ANYTHING that happens...:(

Sactocal

07-26-2011, 9:42 AM

Could people stop posting language spam into the forums please. it is not relevant, and if it is, post it in english.

Wherryj

07-26-2011, 11:00 AM

Note: I though this deserved a thread of its' own - it's a bombshell.

July 26, 2011 - Fox News reports (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/26/atf-accused-in-congressional-report-arming-cartel-for-war-through-operation/) that a congressional report indicates that the ATF, through "Fast and Furious" was the primary arms source for the Sinaloa Cartel, helping them to buy 1,026 weapons worth more than $650,000. When ATF agents in Mexico reported this "flood of weapons" they were told "everything is under control". Perhaps the most devestating aspect of the report is that Lanny Breuer, the head of the Criminal Division of the Justice Department, was fully briefed on the number of guns and who they were going to. This removes any doubt that high ranking DOJ managers knew of the operation. Breuer's boss is AG Eric Holder, Holder's boss is President Obama.

So, does this mean that Breuer is the scapegoat and everyone else denies knowledge-then he gets the pardon? Or will the media just continue to mostly ignore the story, everyone involved deny any knowledge of the "incident", and just let it die out of apathy?

sholling

07-26-2011, 11:52 AM

So, does this mean that Breuer is the scapegoat and everyone else denies knowledge-then he gets the pardon?
It's too early to tell who gets left holding the bag and the pardon and the spiffy new job at a Soros funded think tank.

Or will the media just continue to mostly ignore the story, everyone involved deny any knowledge of the "incident", and just let it die out of apathy?
That's the plan and the mainstream media are in full coverup mode. All the administration has to do is continue its policy of non-cooperation with the investigation, ignoring subpoena, firing whistle blowers, and lying to congress and the committee will eventually run into a brick wall. They know that the media will protect them.

ElvenSoul

07-26-2011, 11:54 AM

Disband the ATF!

Untamed1972

07-26-2011, 11:58 AM

THE PRIMARY arms source for the sinaloa cartel, a major criminal organization that we are supposed to be dismantling and destroying. I. Am. Outraged. I cannot believe this could happen. And no one in the MSM is really even talking about it. Un-frickin-believeable.

Cuz Obama is their golden child. Of course they're not gonna cover it, they would lose all credibility on any future gun control issue they might want to cover or have covered so far. Thanks to F&F any elected official or news writer/outlet that ever used that fake 90% stat now looks like a total moron!

If this had been a Bush admin. operation and it was outted....you can bet it's all you would be hearing about, day in and day out on every news network in the country.

Rattlehead

07-26-2011, 12:06 PM

Well, we don't need a translator when looking at a picture to understand what oath swearing corruption is.

You know what's funny? When I was younger and stupider-er I studied newspaper journalism. I was still brainwashed at that time and would have absolutely downplayed this because it didn't support the paper's agenda.

I never thought of it before but there was an unspoken agreement to play to the left.

This story is fascinating, and unless Obama was deliberately left out of the loop for deniability, the man *had* to know. Someone would have to tell him what was going on to get a pat on the head if nothing else.

If life were fair this would drive a stake into the heart of the ATF.

Unfortunately, with the press burying the story, I think very little will come of it.

Be careful what you wish for, "Better the devil you know..." and all that.

kcbrown

07-26-2011, 3:25 PM

THE PRIMARY arms source for the sinaloa cartel, a major criminal organization that we are supposed to be dismantling and destroying. I. Am. Outraged. I cannot believe this could happen. And no one in the MSM is really even talking about it. Un-frickin-believeable.

If you cannot believe this could happen then you need to seriously readjust your cynicism level.

This sort of thing is so easily predictable that I fully expect it out of government, and have for the past 30 years.

The U.S. government is enormously corrupt, and has been for a very, very long time. Even the Supreme Court is not immune from it (see, e.g., Kelo, and the fact that we now have Sotomayor in place there).

The number of people in government who truly value freedom for all is vanishingly small. That is true at all levels and in all branches of government.

This is why, even if/when we win back our full 2A rights, we will have an enormous amount of work ahead of us, for as we gain on the 2A front, we're losing on every other front.

BigDogatPlay

07-26-2011, 4:50 PM

Some of this is really starting to look like DAG Breuer was very much in the loop. Sounds like it's time to really start pulling apart his testimony under oath on the matter.

I have strong doubts that the White House will let the AG fall over this, unless there is a big smoking gun (pun absolutely intended) in the record that points to him. Assuming DAG Breuer, as chief of the Criminal Division was in the loop, he'll certainly have to go and I'd wager his bar ticket might be in some degree of peril.

dustoff31

07-26-2011, 7:34 PM

So, does this mean that Breuer is the scapegoat and everyone else denies knowledge-then he gets the pardon?

If there in nobody in the food chain between him and Holder, I'd say that is a very likely scenario.

Or will the media just continue to mostly ignore the story, everyone involved deny any knowledge of the "incident", and just let it die out of apathy?

The media might ignore it, but I don't think the House is going to quit this until they get someone's head on a stick.

vincewarde

07-26-2011, 9:07 PM

July 26, 2011 - House Oversight Committee holds hears focusing on the Mexican side of the boarder. You Tube Video: Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ETDnGKR2c) Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33Lntd4uzU) (Note: The second video is labeled as part 3, I think this is a typo.)

July 26, 2011 - The House Oversight Committee releases a report on the Mexican side of the scandal. Highlights: 1) ATF agents in Mexico City were kept in the dark. 2) Lanny Breuer, the Assistant Attorney General for the Criminal Division at the Justice Department, was clearly aware of Operation Fast and Furious and touted the case during a visit to Mexico. 3) ATF officials in Mexico City were incredulous that their agency would knowingly allow guns to fall into the hands of Mexican drug cartels. Summary (http://oversight.house.gov./index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1397:atf-officials-in-mexico-denied-access-to-information-by-us-counterparts-about-reckless-strategy-that-allowed-guns-to-fall-into-the-hands-of-mexican-drug-cartels&catid=22:releasesstatements) Complete Report (http://oversight.house.gov./images/stories/Reports/FINAL_FINAL.pdf)

July 26, 2011 - The LA Times reports (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fast-furious-fbi-20110727,0,808389.story) that forensic data from the FBI proves that a Gunwalker gun was used to kill Agent Terry. The ATF has said the two "Fast and Furious" guns recovered at the scene were not used to kill the agent.

July 26, 2011 - The NY Times reports (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/27/us/politics/27guns.html) that William Newell, the former special agent in charge of the Phoenix field division "admitted he made mistakes" in regards to Gunwalker.

July 26, 2011 - CBS headlines (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20083772-10391695.html) that an ATF manager told the White House about Gunwalker.

July 26, 2011 - The Wall Street Journal reports (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424053111903999904576470412200383534.html?m od=googlenews_wsj) that acting ATF head Kenneth Melson has testified that he did not approve the tactics used in Gunwalker.

July 26, 2011 - Fox News reports (http://nation.foxnews.com/botched-gun-operation/2011/07/26/fast-and-furious-scandal-spreads-four-agencies) that "the scandal has spread" to ICE, DEA and the IRS.

July 26, 2011 - Fox News reporter William La Jeunesse reports on today's hearings (http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/news/2011/07/26/operation-fast-furious-hearing/). He states that lying and duplicity are alive at ATF. He reports on Lanny Breuer's briefing and states that he is "Eric Holder's right hand man". He also reports that the next hearings will focus on DOJ.

FastFinger

07-26-2011, 9:41 PM

Time to hire a Special Independent Prosecutor. And Obama may actually agree - if for no other reason that it will improve his unemployment stats.

sholling

07-26-2011, 10:10 PM

Time to hire a Special Independent Prosecutor. And Obama may actually agree - if for no other reason that it will improve his unemployment stats.
A perfect job for Patrick Fitzgerald. Anybody in the administration or Justice or the ATF that makes even the smallest misstatement will see prison time.

Texas Boy

07-26-2011, 10:49 PM

So, does this mean that Breuer is the scapegoat and everyone else denies knowledge-then he gets the pardon? Or will the media just continue to mostly ignore the story, everyone involved deny any knowledge of the "incident", and just let it die out of apathy?

Having Breuer take the fall seems a likely outcome. Remember Iran-Contra. On the other hand, with the debt crisis and all the other junk going on (no funding for the FAA, the events in Norway, Libya, Japan, etc) the media has plenty to report on without having to try and explain a very complicated story that would only confuse much of their audience.

Dhena81

07-26-2011, 11:39 PM

This is unbelievable I talked to the ATF at the gun show a couple of weeks ago they asked me if I had any questions :rolleyes:. I could tell they were ashamed I didn't lay into them I could see the defeated look in there eyes.

GrayWolf09

07-27-2011, 12:18 AM

Note: I though this deserved a thread of its' own - it's a bombshell.

July 26, 2011 - Fox News reports (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/07/26/atf-accused-in-congressional-report-arming-cartel-for-war-through-operation/) that a congressional report indicates that the ATF, through "Fast and Furious" was the primary arms source for the Sinaloa Cartel, helping them to buy 1,026 weapons worth more than $650,000. When ATF agents in Mexico reported this "flood of weapons" they were told "everything is under control". Perhaps the most devestating aspect of the report is that Lanny Breuer, the head of the Criminal Division of the Justice Department, was fully briefed on the number of guns and who they were going to. This removes any doubt that high ranking DOJ managers knew of the operation. Breuer's boss is AG Eric Holder, Holder's boss is President Obama.

Why would the Sinaloa Cartel buy all their guns in the United States when they could get full auto versions cheaper in Mexico?:(

July 26, 2011 - House Oversight Committee holds hears focusing on the Mexican side of the boarder. You Tube Video: Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ETDnGKR2c) Part 2 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z33Lntd4uzU) (Note: The second video is labeled as part 3, I think this is a typo.)

July 26, 2011 - The LA Times reports (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-fast-furious-fbi-20110727,0,808389.story) that forensic data from the FBI proves that a Gunwalker gun was used to kill Agent Terry. The ATF has said the two "Fast and Furious" guns recovered at the scene were not used to kill the agent.

Guns don't kill people! Agent Terry was killed by a member of a Mexican Drug Cartel.

Listen I think that Fast and Furious or whatever it was called is one of the biggest cluster you know whats in history and that heads should roll because of it. But shouldn't we at least maintain message consistency?;)

adrenalinemedic

07-27-2011, 1:59 AM

Guns don't kill people! Agent Terry was killed by a member of a Mexican Drug Cartel.

Listen I think that Fast and Furious or whatever it was called is one of the biggest cluster you know whats in history and that heads should roll because of it. But shouldn't we at least maintain message consistency?;)

Were the phrases 'was used to kill' and 'were not used to kill' not clear enough?

GrayWolf09

07-27-2011, 7:37 AM

Were the phrases 'was used to kill' and 'were not used to kill' not clear enough?

No they were not. For years the NRA has said that "Guns don't kill people, people kill people!" It was a valid premise. You regulate the people not the guns. So why change now. It seems to me to say a Fast and Furious gun killed Agent Terry says we should regulate the guns not the people. I believe that is the wrong message.

BTW I think Fast and Furious was a prime example of an agency gone amuck and I do believe heads should roll.

tankarian

07-27-2011, 7:57 AM

BTW I think Fast and Furious was a prime example of an agency gone amuck and I do believe heads should roll.

And if Holder and Obama knew and approved of F&F, should their heads roll too? :whistling:

eaglemike

07-27-2011, 8:08 AM

Why would the Sinaloa Cartel buy all their guns in the United States when they could get full auto versions cheaper in Mexico?:(

Guns don't kill people! Agent Terry was killed by a member of a Mexican Drug Cartel - with weapons illegally supplied by an agency of the US government.

Listen I think that Fast and Furious or whatever it was called is one of the biggest cluster you know whats in history and that heads should roll because of it. But shouldn't we at least maintain message consistency?;)
I agree with what you said in this case - except I think the part I added in red makes it more completely accurate.

adrenalinemedic

07-27-2011, 7:53 PM

It seems to me to say a Fast and Furious gun killed Agent Terry says we should regulate the guns not the people. I believe that is the wrong message.

Except that no one but you is saying the gun killed him.

In the post that you quoted, it clearly stated that Gunwalker guns were used [by cartel members] to kill Agent Terry.

Dutch3

07-28-2011, 4:10 AM

Why would the Sinaloa Cartel buy all their guns in the United States when they could get full auto versions cheaper in Mexico?:(

Maybe they were hoping to get the same deal the Zetas got from The State Department's Direct Commercial Sales division.