Re: Total enrollment numbers for Fall 2014, at 18,796 students

Fun, I actually don't want to emulate anyone in their entirety (maybe not even look to any as a model at all). And I don't care if anyone else emulates us or not. We have a unique set of circumstances that almost dictates creating a strategy of our own. Perhaps even a strategy that no others can use as a model.

The politics of this state eliminates us from emulating anyone. And we can argue infinitum about who we may wish to be more like. In every case, however, I could identify major reasons why we'll never ever be like any target institution anyone ever references.

You made a statement that all of us think we want to be like "L-state". That is absolutely incorrect. It can't happen. And it won't happen. And I'm not concerned about it.

Insofar as a philosophical characterization of a target identity for UL... we need to simply establish a set of goals and objectives for academics... and for athletics. We need to work, independently on those two sets of goals and objectives. Both should be substantial. It really is pretty simple to me. Those two entities are in no way competing. Great academics cannot be overshadowed by great athletics... or vice versa.

I'm tired of UL academia thinking that the only truly gifted intellectuals are awkward and ugly. They are only exposing a primative emotion that lessens them... jealousy. We will fertilize both the body and the mind. And when one comes into competition with the other... emotionally... as they have in the past... we will address the emotion... not the claim.

Re: Total enrollment numbers for Fall 2014, at 18,796 students

Originally Posted by CajunFun

Sure. But for a couple of weeks I've been mulling over a thread that I may post.

Who in south Louisiana would list William & Mary, or UC-Santa Cruz, or UC-Davis as some of their top candidates for college? All three are in the USN&WR Top 20 public national universities, but none of them have much in the way of athletics.

And those are only the rankings of major research institutions; what about New College of Florida, St. Mary's of MD, Minnesota-Morris, or UNC-Asheville? They are some of the top-ranked public liberal arts schools, and the liberal arts schools are supposed to give the best undergrad educations, by far.

All over UL, and even more at the other state colleges, we have people who just want to do what 'the big boys' do, without ever asking, Why? To what end?

And more importantly, Which 'big boys'?

And so we inherit a situation here in Louisiana where a good school is one with a football team. Before Katrina, UNO was way ahead of LTU, and neck & neck with UL, but students didn't think much of UNO. After Tulane, everyone thought that it was L-State, then LTU, and the rest of of were pretty much like McNeese. All the while, Centenary may be the best place for undergrad education; but still, we all think we want to be like L-State.

It's a business problem, but for me it's also a biological, and even philosophical, puzzle. We design a business or other system to conform to the environment; but some design solutions radically change their environment. The great schools do this, they change education, and they become the new models.

That's what I want us to do. I want other schools emulating us. But if we build it on the L-State model, our chances are slim; and our goals are questionable. If we manage to out-'Bama 'Bama, a mediocre school with an enormous athletics budget, who are we? What are we?

The question I offer you guys & gals is, What do we want to contribute to our community, and our world? Sports doesn't necessarily take you there.

And if you don't have the right priorities going into it, it never takes you there.

---I posted this before when taking a track guy with his mom to meet Dr Bienvenu head of Management---Mom wanted Missou and Dr
B says it has a great program

He paused and mention his prejudice since he had put the program in for them---Fun what is the deal with Tulane and Loyola getting so many out of staters---my daughter had about 10 roommates and all were out of state---glad see married an in-state dude!!!

Re: Total enrollment numbers for Fall 2014, at 18,796 students

Originally Posted by Just1More

Fun, I actually don't want to emulate anyone in their entirety (maybe not even look to any as a model at all). And I don't care if anyone else emulates us or not. We have a unique set of circumstances that almost dictates creating a strategy of our own. Perhaps even a strategy that no others can use as a model.

The politics of this state eliminates us from emulating anyone. And we can argue infinitum about who we may wish to be more like. In every case, however, I could identify major reasons why we'll never ever be like any target institution anyone ever references.

You made a statement that all of us think we want to be like "L-state". That is absolutely incorrect. It can't happen. And it won't happen. And I'm not concerned about it.

Insofar as a philosophical characterization of a target identity for UL... we need to simply establish a set of goals and objectives for academics... and for athletics. We need to work, independently on those two sets of goals and objectives. Both should be substantial. It really is pretty simple to me. Those two entities are in no way competing. Great academics cannot be overshadowed by great athletics... or vice versa.

I'm tired of UL academia thinking that the only truly gifted intellectuals are awkward and ugly. They are only exposing a primative emotion that lessens them... jealousy. We will fertilize both the body and the mind. And when one comes into competition with the other... emotionally... as they have in the past... we will address the emotion... not the claim.

LT1,

I have thought a lot about your post. There is a quote from Hinduism that I like very much, "Better one's own path, though imperfect, than another's well-made." And so we agree on that.

At the same time, how cannot we not emulate others? UL must teach, generate research, and support our communities in economic and cultural ways. We didn't invent that. And like any well-run enterprise, to compete and excel we have to pay close attention to what others are doing, and what they have learned, and we must grow from their examples & experience.

Likewise, if UL business or engineering generate a new product and no one buys it, or if we publish research and no one cites it in building their own arguments, we are a failure as an institution. And this is also true for the practical aspects of the administration of a university, and for our culture. If we are not following we are not learning, which is anathema; if we are not leading we are not innovating anything of public value, and that is equally so.

You say we will never make the mistake of misplacing our priorities as have so many big schools? Take a look right here.

There are many threads and posts urging fans to give generously to RCAF. Where are the similar discussions for academic donations?

We have a plethora of posts urging people to buy tickets, and attend athletic events. Where do our members discuss lectures and performances in even minor ways?

We discuss constantly the stadiums and other athletic facilities at other schools. Where have we put a fraction of that energy looking at their libraries and laboratories?

You say that we will never be like L-State, and that great athletics cannot overshadow great academics. For some years our academics have been ahead of our athletics. So why do we overwhelmingly talk about athletics here?

Re: Total enrollment numbers for Fall 2014, at 18,796 students

I have thought a lot about your post. There is a quote from Hinduism that I like very much, "Better one's own path, though imperfect, than another's well-made." And so we agree on that.

At the same time, how cannot we not emulate others? UL must teach, generate research, and support our communities in economic and cultural ways. We didn't invent that. And like any well-run enterprise, to compete and excel we have to pay close attention to what others are doing, and what they have learned, and we must grow from their examples & experience.

Likewise, if UL business or engineering generate a new product and no one buys it, or if we publish research and no one cites it in building their own arguments, we are a failure as an institution. And this is also true for the practical aspects of the administration of a university, and for our culture. If we are not following we are not learning, which is anathema; if we are not leading we are not innovating anything of public value, and that is equally so.

You say we will never make the mistake of misplacing our priorities as have so many big schools? Take a look right here.

There are many threads and posts urging fans to give generously to RCAF. Where are the similar discussions for academic donations?

We have a plethora of posts urging people to buy tickets, and attend athletic events. Where do our members discuss lectures and performances in even minor ways?

We discuss constantly the stadiums and other athletic facilities at other schools. Where have we put a fraction of that energy looking at their libraries and laboratories?

You say that we will never be like L-State, and that great athletics cannot overshadow great academics. For some years our academics have been ahead of our athletics. So why do we overwhelmingly talk about athletics here?

And if we didn't learn that from L-State, just who are we emulating?

I'm not disregarding the intelligence of evaluating other institutions and their priorities, in order to evaluate and establish our own priorities. We can only grow from studying other institution's experiences if we completely understand all of the parameters around their experience. Too many institutions, especially in other states, have advantages (and perhaps some disadvantages) that make their experience with certain initiatives work or not work. We can neither disregard one of their bad experiences any more than we can adopt their good experiences through "emulation".

I just don't like the idea of choosing a specific school, with the many conditions and characteristics uniquely different than ours, and concluding we emulate one of them.

I have absolutely no issue with studying other institution's programs, funding mechanisms, political structure, alumni associations, community connections, business and industry connections, athletic structure, student diversity... and the list goes on... as we study our own... and adopt the best practices that will help us. I just do not believe there exists any particular existing university model that UL should inherit.

I believe you are in the mood to begin angling away from the "big athletics push". There is no doubt that it isn't the most attractive characteristic of higher education in Louisiana, or any state for that matter. But, it is still unbelievably valuable to our collective future.

And again, I do not agree that we are pitting academics and athletics. There aren't that many people in or out of UL that are common to the marketing and funding of those two compartments. I don't see this, "We are spending all of our effort with athletics... and overlooking academics.". We are not regressing academically because we are improving athletically.

As for the balance of discussion on here... you seem to be implying that if we had no athletics... this forum would be a daily whirl of posts on libraries and laboratories. That just isn't how it works. It may infuriate the chef at a fine restaurant that 95% of the conversation is centered around wine that the restaurant just went out and purchased... and not the new dish the chef created. It is irrelevant. He gets to expose his skills and creations to the public via the love of wine. The discussion of his work may be brief. But, if that restaurant does not sell wine... and the other restaurants do... this chef will be out of a job. I have two options for the chef... start loving the wine sales and join the wine discussion... or stay in the kitchen. But, if I catch him pouring out the wine due to jealousy... I'm going to cleave him... metaphorically speaking.

Re: Total enrollment numbers for Fall 2014, at 18,796 students

Originally Posted by Just1More

I'm not disregarding the intelligence of evaluating other institutions and their priorities, in order to evaluate and establish our own priorities. We can only grow from studying other institution's experiences if we completely understand all of the parameters around their experience. Too many institutions, especially in other states, have advantages (and perhaps some disadvantages) that make their experience with certain initiatives work or not work. We can neither disregard one of their bad experiences any more than we can adopt their good experiences through "emulation".

In VINO VERITAS

I just don't like the idea of choosing a specific school, with the many conditions and characteristics uniquely different than ours, and concluding we emulate one of them.

I have absolutely no issue with studying other institution's programs, funding mechanisms, political structure, alumni associations, community connections, business and industry connections, athletic structure, student diversity... and the list goes on... as we study our own... and adopt the best practices that will help us. I just do not believe there exists any particular existing university model that UL should inherit.

I believe you are in the mood to begin angling away from the "big athletics push". There is no doubt that it isn't the most attractive characteristic of higher education in Louisiana, or any state for that matter. But, it is still unbelievably valuable to our collective future.

And again, I do not agree that we are pitting academics and athletics. There aren't that many people in or out of UL that are common to the marketing and funding of those two compartments. I don't see this, "We are spending all of our effort with athletics... and overlooking academics.". We are not regressing academically because we are improving athletically.

As for the balance of discussion on here... you seem to be implying that if we had no athletics... this forum would be a daily whirl of posts on libraries and laboratories. That just isn't how it works. It may infuriate the chef at a fine restaurant that 95% of the conversation is centered around wine that the restaurant just went out and purchased... and not the new dish the chef created. It is irrelevant. He gets to expose his skills and creations to the public via the love of wine. The discussion of his work may be brief. But, if that restaurant does not sell wine... and the other restaurants do... this chef will be out of a job. I have two options for the chef... start loving the wine sales and join the wine discussion... or stay in the kitchen. But, if I catch him pouring out the wine due to jealousy... I'm going to cleave him... metaphorically speaking.

Re: Total enrollment numbers for Fall 2014, at 18,796 students

I have thought a lot about your post. There is a quote from Hinduism that I like very much, "Better one's own path, though imperfect, than another's well-made." And so we agree on that.

At the same time, how cannot we not emulate others? UL must teach, generate research, and support our communities in economic and cultural ways. We didn't invent that. And like any well-run enterprise, to compete and excel we have to pay close attention to what others are doing, and what they have learned, and we must grow from their examples & experience.

Likewise, if UL business or engineering generate a new product and no one buys it, or if we publish research and no one cites it in building their own arguments, we are a failure as an institution. And this is also true for the practical aspects of the administration of a university, and for our culture. If we are not following we are not learning, which is anathema; if we are not leading we are not innovating anything of public value, and that is equally so.

You say we will never make the mistake of misplacing our priorities as have so many big schools? Take a look right here.

There are many threads and posts urging fans to give generously to RCAF. Where are the similar discussions for academic donations?

We have a plethora of posts urging people to buy tickets, and attend athletic events. Where do our members discuss lectures and performances in even minor ways?

We discuss constantly the stadiums and other athletic facilities at other schools. Where have we put a fraction of that energy looking at their libraries and laboratories?

You say that we will never be like L-State, and that great athletics cannot overshadow great academics. For some years our academics have been ahead of our athletics. So why do we overwhelmingly talk about athletics here?

And if we didn't learn that from L-State, just who are we emulating?

Fun, this is an athletics fan forum. Of course the vast majority of the posts and/or threads are going to deal with our athletics or athletic facilities, often by comparing them with those of other schools. That does not mean that any person on this board sees athletics as the defining factor of UL or of any other school. It simply means that we are all sports fans who are here to discuss sports.

Perhaps unfortunately, academics is not a spectator sport. But if you want to talk libraries, Texas has a great one, and the fact that they have a hugely successful athletic program doesn't seem to hurt it. Great athletics and great academics are not always mutually exclusive. Stanford, Texas, Texas A&M, Michigan and Duke come to mind.