My business is a stand alone lighting company. We don't do anything but landscape and architectural lighting. I have 6 guys, myself and my wife working full time and can't keep up.
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In order to financially support the above statement How much in Gross sales per yr would you think that someone would need to make? This is purportedly a landscape lighting only business

NightScenes

12-16-2007, 10:59 PM

Go ahead Pete, since this is one of my posts from another forum, why don't you take a guess? I'll fill in a few blanks for you as well. I'm located in a town with 2 traffic lights and we're not even big enough for a McDonald's. We're about 60 miles from Austin which is the largest city around here. My company covers a 100 mile radius.

You started this thread, before anyone else answers I'd like to here your answer.

NightScenes

12-17-2007, 12:19 AM

Go ahead Pete, since this is one of my posts from another forum, why don't you take a guess? I'll fill in a few blanks for you as well. I'm located in a town with 2 traffic lights and we're not even big enough for a McDonald's. We're about 60 miles from Austin which is the largest city around here. My company covers a 100 mile radius.

You started this thread, before anyone else answers I'd like to here your answer.

I need to add that the original post was a question asking if landscape lighting could be a stand alone business and be successful. I was saying yes, it can be.

irrig8r

12-17-2007, 01:30 AM

Of course it can, if you're willing to either locate in an area where the demand is high, or you're willing to travel the distance. Sounds like you're doing the latter.

Because my business is essentially a split between irrigation and lighting, I don't have to drive as far most of the time. On the irrigation side it's further split between service, repairs, troubleshooting, designs and new installations. I know there's a demand for the irrigation work, and I've built up a reputation to where I can't just let it go.

I also believe (based on my experience) that it's more recession-proof than lighting.

OTOH, lighting is more drought-proof than irrigation.

So for me, in my particular market and climate, and within my own comfort zone, a lighting only business would not be as desirable. There are others that do it here, and they also spend a lot more time on the road than I'd like.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

12-17-2007, 11:39 AM

My business is a stand alone lighting company. We don't do anything but landscape and architectural lighting. I have 6 guys, myself and my wife working full time and can't keep up.
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In order to financially support the above statement How much in Gross sales per yr would you think that someone would need to make? This is purportedly a landscape lighting only business

What a strange question... There are so many variables at play there that one could not begin to develop an accurate answer.

Clearly Paul is 'making it' just fine He isnt "purportedly" anything.... Why would you doubt him?. The fact that he employs 6 others ( I see that as supporting 6 other families ) indicates that he is generating significant sales and revenues. Beyond that, who really cares other then Paul and his organization?

Go for it Pete... take a stab and guess at what Paul's revenues are. You certainly seem very interested in what other people sell and earn, so I would think that you would be very good at this by now.

When you are done, take a stab at what my revenues are... Should be a snap for you... Im just a little one man show up here in the frozen North woods.

Have a great day.

PatriotLandscape

12-17-2007, 02:14 PM

from my historical numbers for landscape construction 6 guys plus you should generate a gross reciept of 600-750k depending on your cost of goods sold.

Az Gardener

12-17-2007, 02:33 PM

I'll bet he is closer to 1.5 Mil. and doesn't have time to spend his money.

I know every time I get a lighting job it is like Christmas. Those lights just don't die :weightlifter: no matter how far the emitter is from the root ball :laugh:.

Lighting only here is more difficult as most do it with the install and I don't know a single landscaper who does not do lighting along with the hardscaping and irrigation. Misting systems and pools are about the only things subbed out here and even those trades are coming into the fold.

PatriotLandscape

12-17-2007, 05:30 PM

I would be a very happy man if I could get 200k per employee.

Chris J

12-17-2007, 08:10 PM

Why not just cut straight to the chase and ask people how much money they have in the bank? Are we really having this conversation?
BTW: "It's not how much you make that matters; it's how much you keep!"

NightScenes

12-17-2007, 08:55 PM

I agree Chris but apparently Mr. Pete has a need to know. I, of course would never divulge in an open forum what my companies gross sales were this year but I also would not lie about it if Mr. Pete were to have some inside information. I sure hope he doesn't work for the IRS!!

TXNSLighting

12-17-2007, 09:13 PM

and now hes missing... what a weird question to ask on a public forum. altho ive heard worse. o well.

Chris J

12-17-2007, 09:27 PM

Even if someone were to give up this information, it wouldn't be at all useful because one wouldn't know what the "net" was without plundering all through the books. I've come to realize that people who make large gross sales do not impress me (nor are they trying). It's all about net profit after everything is said and done. I know of two individuals who do 1.5 to 2mil in gross sales per year, yet their net profits dictate that they should work for McDonalds flipping burgers instead. Poor money management, over-spending, no idea of budget.......It all results in poor profit, yet they drive really nice trucks to try to portray some kind of "image". I say **** image! I'd rather live in peace in a paid for home with no debt! If you guys want the name of a real hero, google Dave Ramsey!

NightScenes

12-17-2007, 09:38 PM

Even if someone were to give up this information, it wouldn't be at all useful because one wouldn't know what the "net" was without plundering all through the books. I've come to realize that people who make large gross sales do not impress me (nor are they trying). It's all about net profit after everything is said and done. I know of two individuals who do 1.5 to 2mil in gross sales per year, yet their net profits dictate that they should work for McDonalds flipping burgers instead. Poor money management, over-spending, no idea of budget.......It all results in poor profit, yet they drive really nice trucks to try to portray some kind of "image". I say **** image! I'd rather live in peace in a paid for home with no debt! If you guys want the name of a real hero, google Dave Ramsey!

You are oh so right Chris, it's the net that counts. I try to maintain a 25% or higher net profit. I hear of people that are lucky to keep 10% and wonder why they even bother.

pete scalia

12-17-2007, 09:54 PM

I have no idea that's why I asked. I'm doing lighting with myself and two helpers and did 600K this yr gross lighting sales. I want to increase my business and was wondering what kind of gross you'd need to support an infrastructure of 6 employees dedicated to lighting. Didn't mean to rustle feathers. If anyone wants to know. My net was over 200K. Not bad for a sideline. Now I'm going to lay all that cash on my bed and roll on it naked.

Chris J

12-17-2007, 09:59 PM

If you are actually getting that kind of profit with only two employees, then I'd say "if it aint broke then don't try to fix it! That's a great business model, and you should just be happy and humble.

pete scalia

12-17-2007, 10:09 PM

If you are actually getting that kind of profit with only two employees, then I'd say "if it aint broke then don't try to fix it! That's a great business model, and you should just be happy and humble.

I'm looking to take it to the next level. . My Prices are going up in 08 but I want to do a mil next year and I'm anticipating having to hire 2 more guys and put another stocked truck on the road.

NightScenes

12-17-2007, 10:10 PM

I have no idea that's why I asked. I'm doing lighting with myself and two helpers and did 600K this yr gross lighting sales. I want to increase my business and was wondering what kind of gross you'd need to support an infrastructure of 6 employees dedicated to lighting. Didn't mean to rustle feathers. If anyone wants to know. My net was over 200K. Not bad for a sideline. Now I'm going to lay all that cash on my bed and roll on it naked.

If you're making over 33% than you are doing great!! Keep up the good work!

TXNSLighting

12-17-2007, 10:20 PM

Id say your doing just fine. If i could be there id be set. Don't force growth if your doing that well. Good job!

pete scalia

12-17-2007, 10:35 PM

Thanks for all the kind sentiments. this last year we really "ground it out" and squeezed every bit out of it. I don't think this pace can be replicated next year without something giving. If the demand is strong as it was this year (God willing) then I do believe I can attain my goal but it will definately require another crew and truck. Maybe if I go to AOLP in Jan they will show me the way.

Chris J

12-17-2007, 10:50 PM

Your talking about a 66% increase in sales next year on top of an already substaintial gross revenue "description". Good luck with your goals!

NightScenes

12-17-2007, 10:52 PM

No Pete, I think you need to show the rest of us the way. I sure would like to know how to achieve a 33% net!!

irrig8r

12-17-2007, 11:25 PM

I have no idea that's why I asked. I'm doing lighting with myself and two helpers and did 600K this yr gross lighting sales. I want to increase my business and was wondering what kind of gross you'd need to support an infrastructure of 6 employees dedicated to lighting. Didn't mean to rustle feathers. If anyone wants to know. My net was over 200K. Not bad for a sideline. Now I'm going to lay all that cash on my bed and roll on it naked.

I can only hope we won't be seeing that on youtube...

JoeyD

12-18-2007, 06:05 PM

Hey Pete can I get a loan???

extlights

12-19-2007, 01:06 AM

That's exceptional business considering you're probably like us and are unable to work the full 12 months out of the year....at least I'm assuming since you're in NY. We usually get 8 months of installing lights...maybe 9 if we're really lucky.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

12-19-2007, 01:16 AM

Dave, I would love to get 9 months of outdoor lighting in a year... Here we wrap up around Dec. 1st and then start major service around April 15th with installs starting around May 1st.

The first couple of years was really hard... now that I have developed a strong interior lighting biz, things are much better year round. Next goal is to get my distribution arm humming, and to branch into retail. Vertical integration is a strong strategy for growth and sustainability, if you can find the niches.

Have a great day.

pete scalia

12-19-2007, 01:34 AM

That's exceptional business considering you're probably like us and are unable to work the full 12 months out of the year....at least I'm assuming since you're in NY. We usually get 8 months of installing lights...maybe 9 if we're really lucky.

Thanks Dave. 9 month season. I don't need to sell retail or do interior lighting to stay afloat. Guess I'm doing better than most from the feedback. Chomping at the bit to get started in 08. planning for even a bigger yr.

Lite4

12-19-2007, 02:25 AM

James,
I would be interested to know how you went about transitioning your business to the interior side as well. This is very appealing to me as you can do some crazy things with interior lighting. How did you cross over from a marketing standpoint? Did you just approach builders about your services for new construction or is a lot of your work remodeling for homeowners? I for one would be more than happy to get out of the cold in the winter time. I am not as hot blooded now as I was when I was 20.

INTEGRA Bespoke Lighting

12-19-2007, 02:31 AM

Tim I would be happy to tell you how I did this transition... but not here. It would be too long winded. Give me a call sometime at the office, or send me an email to my office address. I will fill you in then.

Have a great day.

Lite4

12-19-2007, 02:40 AM

Thanks James,
I will get your number off your web site.

PatriotLandscape

12-19-2007, 01:25 PM

Thanks Dave. 9 month season. I don't need to sell retail or do interior lighting to stay afloat. Guess I'm doing better than most from the feedback. Chomping at the bit to get started in 08. planning for even a bigger yr.

Plan on making more not doing more :) big difference. I would not go to crazy if this was your first year going then the increased overhead can be a big shock. Make sure you have a good business consultant.
here is a group that I have worked with give them a call you will not be dissappointed.