Posted
by
CowboyNeal
on Thursday May 10, 2007 @06:52PM
from the red-shirts-all-around dept.

caffiend666 writes "According to a Space.com news article the cremated remains of 200 people were lost in the mountains after their trip to space. 'The search for the UP Aerospace payload of experiments and the cremated remains of some 200 people — including "Scotty" of Star Trek fame, as well as pioneeering NASA Mercury astronaut, Gordon Cooper — continues within rugged New Mexico mountain landscape.' Is it just me, or does it seem appropriate that they lost the landing party? Here's to a safe recovery!"

It sounds like this landing did what they wanted it to other than the fact they lost the thing- which makes me wonder why they didn't think of using a tracking beacon of some sort rather than calculating where the thing was. all they would need to do is go toward ths signal.

They did use a tracking becon. As far as they can tell, it is still working, to a couple km (diameter) circle. Unfortunately it landed in mountainous terrain, and "go[ing] towards the signal" is a physical impossiblity. (Okay, not impossible, but quite difficult). Also, the terrain is messing with the signals.

Next week (no hurry I suppose), the manufacturers of the tracking device are bringing more sensitive equipment and more experienced searchers to search for it.

I think the point was to see how the remains of several cremated people reacted to zero g conditions. We now now that when subjected to these certain conditions they gain enough intelligence to outsmart NASA:)

*shrug* Most cultures are still obsessed with the mind's dead vessel; that's not going to change overnight.

IMO, both cremation & cemeteries are a huge waste of resources. When I finally get around to writing my Will, it'll include something to the effect: "If my pattern of mind is beyond repair, drop my naked nutrient-rich matter into a vertical hole and plant a tree. I forbid energy-wastful cremation, and burial in a rip-off casket in a drab cemetery surrounded by giant obelisk phallic symbols..." Of course, there's probably some business-friendly laws which says that's illegal.

Cremation is useful in that it avoid infection spreading (especially, but not limited to when the man/woman died froma dangerous infection disease). It gets cremated and can be dealt with with much less resources.

But dropping the vessel from space and losing the ash in a forest isn't exactly what I imagined it should be like.

"If my pattern of mind is beyond repair, drop my naked nutrient-rich matter into a vertical hole and plant a tree. I forbid energy-wastful cremation, and burial in a rip-off casket in a drab cemetery surrounded by giant obelisk phallic symbols..." Of course, there's probably some business-friendly laws which says that's illegal.

I had this in mind when I chose to bury two of my dogs in the backyard. Looking back on the experience (I ended up with two small plaques and planting some flowers and shrubs), I don't regret my decision. I could write an essay on the subject, but it should suffice to say it just seemed like the right thing to do. From every point of view.

Whether the above is legal, I don't know. My guess is that it isn't. Once upon a time people (at least those who owned land) had family cemeteries. Maybe someone here who knows more about such traditions could enlighten us. At any rate, today, at least here in California, burying someone on private land, irrespective of whether you own one acre of land or 1000 acres, was made illegal sometime in the 1920s (?).

It's kind of shame, really. Obviously, we can't all just around burying people just anywhere (broadband deployment is complicated enough), but there's something to be said for being buried in the dirt, and having someone come along and plant some grass or a tree where you were laid to rest.

Actually, the idea of a minimal-impact burial is alive and well. Fitting with the tradition, it's called a "green burial". Google isn't all that helpful at this point, but it's essentially being unembalmed, being thrown in a cardboard box and having a tree plotted over you as opposed to a traditional process. I'm not sure how popular it is now, but an article from about a year ago denotes a small, but growing, trend:http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/artic le.html?in_article_id=389741&in_page_ [dailymail.co.uk]

Firstly, as far as I remmember you are not buried *foreever* in a cemetary, after a while (50 years?) you are remain get taken care of. Somebody in the caretaker industry stops me if I am wrong.

Secondly imagine if people would get buried everywhere at the will of their family or their own will. Very quickly you would not be able to dig somewhere without finding half rotten remains, with all the infection danger that they represents. This would be a health catastrophe. So NO the reason you can't burry peo

I doubt health problems would be an issue unless the person died of a communicable disease like cholera or polio. Of course, in the 19th and early 20th Century, that would have been a serious problem. OTOH, given the laws against desecration of human remains, being able to bury human remains just anywhere would be a huge obstacle to construction.

Well spoken. It's an industry. The one thing I remember when my grandfather died (it was an insanely emotional period - my other grandfather had just died a week earlier, both unexpected), the undertakers were there in no time and asked my grandmother: "do you want him to be buried in first class or second class ground?" (literally). What is she supposed to say at such a time? Of course she chose "first class", thinking she would honour him that way. In reality, she just paid a lot of money.. for what? I was quite disgusted.

My grandma has died 2 months ago, the government already closes the bank account at first knowledge of death. This to pay the expenses of the undertakers, the church service, the after service (in Belgium with coffee cakes and sandwiches, because it's a tradition to eat and talk with the relatives around in a room/tables) and some other expenses...

These expenses start with the "cheapest" which is not really "cheap" anymore but rather expensive and if you want to be buried with some decency (which won't change anything for you anymore anyways), the bill will be -very- expensive/uncatholic... It seems to be a profitable business, maybe some idea through the web *shrug*

It has to be certified by the state health department for storage and transport of human remains. doing that as a one off today will cost you rather more than your materials. and yes, for $40 of materials, but how much time, and how much does that time cost on a commercial scale.

The laws aren't Business-Friendly, they are related to public health.
Lets say I did what you wanted and planted you in a shallow grave with no casing and planted a tree. While a very nice gesture, your bodies' parasites and fungi live on. And if you died of say, Cholera, your Cholera rich body is leaking it into the ground water.
While there is a racket associated with much of the funeral biz, and much of it is greedy, there is reason behind the laws. Burial laws are in place to be a public health issue,

I made a "biological will" as we call these docs here in Canada 10 years ago (I was about 22). In it, I give my body to science after I'm done with it. How this works is that they can take out any good parts for transplants, studies, dissection, training, etc. After one year, anything left is cremated and the ashes given back to the family. I asked for my ashes to be dispersed in nature after. That way, my leftover body will have some good use instead of costing thousands of dollars to be disposed of.

"drop my naked nutrient-rich matter into a vertical hole and plant a tree."
Well, the safer way would be something like Capsula Mundi [capsulamundi.it]:

Capsula Mundi is a design for a biodegradable coffin made from starch plastic that holds the deceased in a fetal position...
Capsula Mundi is planted in the earth like a seed. Above it, to signal the presence of occupied space, is a shallow concave circle dug out of the ground. In the center of which, a tree is planted, the essence of it chosen in life by the dead one, the

To the best of my knowledge, in many states, it is required that you buy a casket, and in most states it is required that you buy *some* sort of container, even if it's just a little cardboard box like an ice-cream container for the ashes. Luckily, those are cheap, comparatively, like $20 or so. My dad's ashes are still sitting in that little box, 6 years later, on my mom's clothesdryer. (Not a real sentimental family, but boy we have procrastination down to a science.)And if he were still around, he'd b

Actually, cremation is not just energy-wasteful, it is also resource wasteful. At least if you are composted (whoops, I mean "buried with reverence"), most of your physical matter has the potential to be reused, be it by bacteria, plants or worms. Sure, cremation could be solar powered (just pop the body up to the top of the tower of that solar furnace in New Mexico for a few minutes), but wouldn't it be cool if our cultural tradition was to drop the body in a hole and plant a tree? Cemetaries could beco

And funeral directors all over the U.S. almost universally claim that "state law" in whatever state they are in requires a burial vault into which the casket is placed.Unfortunately, in most states, this is a lie. Some cities may have such requirements, but few states have burial vault requirements. Nevertheless, grieving family members are told all kinds of false regulations that cost money.

The funeral/burial industry preys on emotions and milks families out of huge amounts of money (thousands of dollars)

How much thruster capability did this wee spacecraft have? Enough to eject several cannisters of ashes and propel them away? And better, propel them out of earth orbit so as to avoid even more space junk? Would the wee beastie craft have been able to make it back into the atmosphere as planned? I wouldn't think so, and Scottie would freak out trying to fix the problem. Rest in piece, indeed.

Rural New Mexico, the final frontier. These are the remains of James Doohan. Its five-minute mission: to explore cactus and scrub mesas; to not burn up and burst its canister; to boldly go where no cremated remains have gone before.

After a successful blastoff from New Mexico's Spaceport America on April 28th, the UP Aerospace SpaceLoft XL rocket and its payload nosed into space on a suborbital trajectory. As part of launch operations, the rocket was tracked by specialists at the neighboring White Sands Missile Range.

"...location of the rocket hardware is known within some 1,300 feet (400 meters) or so. But given the dense vegetation on the side of the mountain being searched, along with equipment available to the search team, pinpointing the exact locale has proven a tough assignment.Yet another trip up on the mountain is slated next week, Larson said.

Joining the search this time is the manufacturer of the transmitters onboard the rocket gear."

Excuse me....transmitters and parachutes and known within 1300 feet and you

Did you miss the part about it being on the side of a mountain? how about the part where the radio signals are bouncing around the canyon walls creating echo's and false readings?When was the last time you climbed a mountian? searching them isn't always a walk in the park in your tennis shoes.

Heck you didn't even have to RFTA just the comments to learn that much. Slashdot is definitely going down hill.

The capsule probably just encountered a rift in spacetime and ended up landing somewhere like ancient Rome or 1920s Chicago. As I understand it, this kind of thing happens all the time to space vehicles. They probably shouldn't waste too much effort looking for it in the present.

In these crazy days, doesn't it seem like there's a lawyer somewhere just WAITING for the first time a journalist writes the headline, "Lost in Space" so they can get copyright infringement?

Maybe I'm too cynical.:>

Seriously though; "Scotty" was a huge hero even before Star Trek. One of his previous roles was on June 6th, 1944: he was one of them attacking Fortress Europa. His efforts, and the efforts of thousands of other guys wasting their childhood fighting Nazi Germany is why we're free. Why the show could air; why the benefits of freedom are so available. I liked'em before, but upon learning that, I'm his biggest fan.

My dad came behind the push at Anzio, he got a late start. Dad is why I know this was such a huge accomplishment. Thanks so much, "Scotty".

What the hell, man? I know all war is supposed to be bad these days, but I had a grandfather who fought Nazi Germany. My other grandfather was in the Pacific. Neither of them have ever stated that that wasn't the right place for them to be.

After all those years of saying things like "she's breaking up cap'n, she can't take much more of this", it was bound to eventually happen. The engineer had to pass away before his ship even had a chance of malfunctioning like this, after all.;)

OK. The word "wherefore" is equivalent to "why", not "where plus some old shakespeare stuff". Read this article [cjr.org] for a quick explanation, or see here [reference.com] for a dictionary definition.