Actually, the "Na na hey hey" thing is perfectly appropriate. Large portions of the left and right have always seen politics from the perspective of a sports fan; that's what partisanship is. It's not serious, it's trivial. It's mindless us/them b.s.

If they believed anything they said, that Bush is a war criminal and worse than Hitler blah blah blah, it would be unconscionable to just let him fly to Crawford for a dignified retirement. That's truly a morally reprehensible response if you believe anything close to what Doyle et al say they believe. Apprehend him, try him, hang him.

But they're not serious. They're just rooting for the "D" (and others for the "R") and ramping the hyperbole up to 11 without ever bothering to check what the actual people are saying or doing. Because they're not thoughtful enough to do more.

Still, it would be nicer if people would just wave their pennants and Obama foam #1 fingers.

By nightfall, those loons will be dead drunk and ready to rumble. Should be interesting.

I was pretty moved and touched by the whole morning--until the inaugural speech itself. It was a combination of cheap-shot stump speech and Carterian malaise lament. The second half was better, when he called out the Muslim world and tyrants. At least he's smart enough to follow Bush there.

This depressing speech and the taunts of the crowd brought me back to earth, although I still can say, what a country! God shed his grace on thee, and the Obamas.

Some liberals do have terrorist sympathies. I give you the widespread support for Hamas among the Left as one of many examples. The Left's response to 9/11 - "we deserved it" - as another.

"Fuck Republicans and conservatives." Boy that expresses the class of the Left right there. Vulgar, foulmouthed, arrogant, brimming with hatred and contempt. No need to show any class or dignity or show the outgoing administration even any basic civility or politeness. It's like government by spoiled teenagers.

I'm amused by how now that the liberals are in charge, Obama is all "let's end the acrimony and have bipartisanship and common purpose". Right - eight years of foaming-at-the-mouth BusHitler hatred, but now when they're in control suddenly they think ending the acrimony is a good idea. If they'd conducted themselves like they wanted that just a little bit in the last eight years it might have some meaning.

Nevertheless, as a traditionalist conservative, I intend, as a show of respect to the Founders of this country, to extend to President Obama the courtesy and benefit of the doubt that goons like Doyle never gave Bush. May Obama conduct himself with dignity and a spirit of goodwill that his followers have never shown the rest of us.

Nevertheless, as a traditionalist conservative, I intend, as a show of respect to the Founders of this country, to extend to President Obama the courtesy and benefit of the doubt that goons like Doyle never gave Bush. May Obama conduct himself with dignity and a spirit of goodwill that his followers have never shown the rest of us.

1:34 PM

The country they created is dead my friend. It's time to do what Thomas Jefferson once advocated - "a little bloody revolution now and then is a good thing".

I remember right up until the last day before the 2006 midterms Bush was saying "a vote for a Democrat is a vote for the terrorists". Or Freepers staked out in front of Gore's house in D.C. in 2000 with signs "get out of Cheney's House", or the mob of Republicans that flew in from around the country to Miami disrupting the election offices. But a song, that's just too much to bear.

To the victors go the spoils, but if the only spoil they get is the pleasure of chanting F/U to Geo, Bush,they have settled cheap. The tendency to tribal group-think among Obama's supporters may be Obama's biggest headache.The U S Gov. functions as a compromise in action and does not function by being under one dominant tribal group.

Obama is now president and the change you think you want is now here. So why continue to look at the past and show how utterly classless you can be. This is your day of celebration, yet you choose to spend even a small portion of it bashing the former president instead of enjoying the moment and looking to the future.Unless your idea of being happy is ripping into others and always seeking to destroy, if that is the case then you are truly miserable people and those that you do support are destined to fail.

I have seen democrat Hate since Reagan ("Oh my G-d, he's gioing to blow up the world!"), Bush I ("warmongers" -- I protested HW when I was a democrat because he refused to put Democracy in the ME), Bush II (See any comment by Michael, hdhouse or Alpha Liberal and the chants today) --

When democrats respect the opposition party, then I will respect democarats. It took me years to get this way, but the disrespect shown was allowed by people like Gov. Dean and Senator Reid.

Alpha, you kcik my guy when he was leaving and you ask us to support your guy. And again, given the attitude of Michael and you, why?

Ann,I don't think you understand, but George W. Bush led a hate-based political movement starting in 1999 and intensifying dramatically after 9/11, culminating in its disgracefulness with his 2004 campaign's decision to scapegoat gay people as an enemy of our values. When Bush wasn't leading the national jihad against gays, he was leading the movement that portrayed its domestic political opponents as traitors and terrorist sympathizers.

People, in other words, have very good reason to be delighted at his departure, and to mock him on his way out.

We could not be happier to see him leave.

I understand you bonded with Bush following the September 11 attacks in 2001. Try to understand that the rest of us, patriots who love America, took offense at being called the enemy so Bush could secure political power.

Actually, the "Na na hey hey" thing is perfectly appropriate. Large portions of the left and right have always seen politics from the perspective of a sports fan; that's what partisanship is. It's not serious, it's trivial. It's mindless us/them b.s.

If they believed anything they said, that Bush is a war criminal and worse than Hitler blah blah blah, it would be unconscionable to just let him fly to Crawford for a dignified retirement. That's truly a morally reprehensible response if you believe anything close to what Doyle et al say they believe. Apprehend him, try him, hang him.

But they're not serious. They're just rooting for the "D" (and others for the "R") and ramping the hyperbole up to 11 without ever bothering to check what the actual people are saying or doing. Because they're not thoughtful enough to do more.

Still, it would be nicer if people would just wave their pennants and Obama foam #1 fingers.

How appropriate kids: When utter classlessness is pointed out, you defend it by crying "they did it too." Yea, I'm inspired, and feel great optimism to be lead by these people's king. What a let down already.

To those of low Emotional IQ, the best emotion they know how to use is Anger. The best anger users focus on one target always handy for their quick outbursts when no other feelings come to the surface. Thus the " That Damned Bush caused [fill in the blank]" is the much loved mantra for the emotionally suppressed angry people everywhere. But will success spoil Alpha Liberal?

tim maguire:AlphaLiberal, you haven't the slightest clue what it means to need liberation. Thanks to George Bush and others like him, you likely never will.

- Bush reduced freedom overall in the United States while in office. He increased government surveillance, expanded government powers to arrest and detain and selectively repealed the ancient writ of habeas corpus.

- Bush reduced freedom overseas, employing a widespread secret network of prisons to torture people abducted in various ways.

- Bush's followers tried to shout down anyone uttering a criticism of him for years, demanding slavish obedience to Their Leader and No Criticism.

- Bush reduced freedom overall in the United States while in office. He increased government surveillance, expanded government powers to arrest and detain and selectively repealed the ancient writ of habeas corpus.

- Bush reduced freedom overseas, employing a widespread secret network of prisons to torture people abducted in various ways.

- Bush's followers tried to shout down anyone uttering a criticism of him for years, demanding slavish obedience to Their Leader and No Criticism.

It's Orwellian for someone to refer to this record as "Liberation."

That's is just about the stupidest comment I've ever seen here. It's just hopeless dude.

Someone told me Chris Matthews clucked at the "na na" stuff and said it was in poor taste. Now THAT is some serious chutzpah. His political discourse re: Bush over the past year has basically been "na na" nonstop.

I know I'm reading an idiot, a groupie, a person incapable of thinking independently when I'm presented with the logical fallacy of appeal to numbers. Argumentum ad numeratum. What do I care what 80% of other people think? And yet, I'm constantly being presented with this nonsense. Goddamnit I hate wasting my reading on this crap. I have better things to do, like finding the best colonic cleanse.

Yes, I'm also reminded of the Gucci riot in Miami when they mobbed a public office to stop votes from being counted.

Actually, the county clerks were trying to count votes in private, with no observers, which is against the law for obvious reasons ("hey, we need to add some more ballots for Gore NOW!"). If a Republican-leaning county had tried that and Democrats had protested, you'd be lauding the protesters as protecting the integrity of the vote. In both cases, the protesters would be correct, and the clerks wrong. That you would react differently to the two cases says all we nee to know about you.

What's the over/under for how long it takes Alpha to hate Obama as much or more than he hates Bush?

My Guess two years.

The "concentration camps" will still be open, the "increased government surveillance" will still be in effect, the "ancient writ of habeas corpus" still won't apply to war criminals and "rendition" (a Clinton policy) will still be used.

to the exchange with tim maguire this statement from President Obama says a lot about how he will restore freedoms to America that were curtailed these past dark eight years. "We Reject as False the Choice between Our Safety and Our Ideals"

"to the exchange with tim maguire this statement from President Obama says a lot about how he will restore freedoms to America that were curtailed these past dark eight years."

Are you ever embarrassed for yourself? I mean, just a little? Don't you ever feel embarrassed at your wealth, your safety, your comfort, your ability to say such boundlessly stupid things while people in Sudan and North Korea and Cuba and Iran and pretty much most of the rest of the world actually live in true darkness, in actual police states, in dire poverty? Don't you ever feel like a spoiled rotten child?

This bipartisan thing almost got the best of me today -- I almost complimented Ann on her pic on the sidebar I hadn't noticed before. Then I though, nah, she probably just think I was drunk or something.

tim maguire said... AlphaLiberal, you haven't the slightest clue what it means to need liberation. Thanks to George Bush and others like him, you likely never will.

Now, now - Bush's greatest legacy might be how he helped or stood aside and allowed the "liberation" of the American People:

1. Of their good reputation abroad.2. Of 35-40% of their home and investments value.3. Of 4 million well-paying jobs lost overseas.4. Of any concern that Americans will spend too much in the future - since his wars and tax cuts for the wealthy are to be financed by Americans from the Obama era on.

He "kept us safe" from a slight risk (odds of being killed by a terrorist are roughly one in 1 million to one in 1.8 million over time going back to Carter's day. But at the expense of 40,000 casualties (many taken for no good reason in Iraq), a doubling of national debt, and dramatic increases in other threats America faces.

As for the two countries we liberated...One has half the people saying it is proper to spit on or throw shoes at Americans if they can do so safely. The other is run by a corrupt ring of heroin smugglers who are staring at defeat and negotiating with the Taliban for further Islamisation and for power-sharing. Meanwhile, the US and NATO cling to small base areas as less and less supplies make it through Pakistan.

AQ? Reconstituted to pre-9/11 strength, but not as effective...for now..

Cedarford really, really, really wants to love Obama, like the good left wing democrat he is inside the dark shell of his heart. If it weren't for those meddling Jews he'd be able to do it! Blast you, Jews!

Oh my God, AlphaLiberal and Cedarford are BFF. I told you politics was a circle, and that if you walked far enough into left-wing douchebag territory you'd find yourself shaking hands with collectivist Nazis. Fear!

See, argument is choice. I can choose if I want to argue or not, and if my opponent is a serious and worthy person who actually wants to have an honest discussion and debate. You don't actually want to have an argument, AlphaLiberal. You just want to come in and taunt the "reich wingers" and cut-n-past things from truthout.com and play the same us-and-them game that so many of us find quite wearying. If instead of hurling bombs and trying to make people upset and insulted you actually tried to converse with people about things, you'd find people's attitude toward you entirely different. You and I actually probably agree about a lot of things, perhaps not politically, but in general. But I can never know that and you will never know that because you don't make any effort to act like a human being. Your Blogger handle is "AlphaLiberal" for Christ's sake. That's a signal that you have no interests but political ones and have no viewpoint but the party's viewpoint. That makes you uninteresting, as uninteresting as someone who posted crap from worldnetdaily using the Blogger name "OmegaUltraRightWingPaleoCon" and taunted me for being a faggot.I just ain't interested, but I'm also not going to sit back and be silent about it. Therefore, it's fun to try to post clever little insults. It keeps the thread from being 49 boring comments from you about how dumb/evil conservatives are.

I can't recall you respectfully discussing an issue with anyone you disagree with here. All you do is insult.

You're lying in this post. I don't think I've ever been to truthout.com. I don't use the term "reich wingers." And I sure as hell don't copy and paste my arguments, just links and quotes to back up my points.

Yes, my handle is AlphaLiberal, because so many liberals have been CowedLiberals for so long and we need to change that. So what? For that you insult me?

This site is crammed full of right-wing insults against liberals. I guess you're used to liberals being all Colmes-like meek and willing to be kicked around. Apparently, that's the only type of liberal you can handle.

You're emblematic of the right wing, though. You hate people who disagree with you and don't have the emotional maturity to discuss issues without getting insulting and vindictive. My experience at Althouse has taught me this much. Few conservatives are polite or capable of talking with someone who doesn't agree with them.

"because so many liberals have been CowedLiberals for so long and we need to change that."

Yes, that's been a serious problem for the left in the past 75 years. Hardly ever do we hear the liberal side of politics in the news, on TV, in the movies, by pop singers, by grade school teachers, or college professors.

How disingenuous of you. You came in with your "Liberation Day" comment - implicitly equating Bush with Hitler, how original - before anyone said any damn thing about "liberals" or "democrats." Then, on a post specifically about boorish behavior - by Democrats - you fly off the handle at the suggestion that some Democrats are boors! How can you be so blind? So dishonest?

Look, there are plenty of hurt feelings on both sides to go around, but your side won, you got everything you could legitimately ask for. Is a pittance of magnanimity simply beyond your ability?

You claim to want dialog and insult-free argument. Explain how your first comment furthered that. What did you really think it would accomplish? Can you even answer that honestly? I suspect not.

You make statements like "We're filled with JOY for a new day for our country and our world" as though you are attempting to deny even the reality of your own statements or those of your political allies, in an attempt to argue that the hard feelings of your opponents are unjustified or irrational. Well, they're not, and you could gain a lot of honor simply by granting the legitimacy of other peoples' feelings - yet you seemingly cannot bring yourself to do even this.

That is why you have no credibility, no civilized friends, and nobody willing to be pleasant to you: because you have no honor. Even now, in your moment of triumph, you are small and weak.

madawaskan said... Cedarford-"One has half the people saying it is proper to spit on or throw shoes at Americans if they can do so safely. The other is run by a corrupt ring of heroin smugglers."

Oh come on-San Francisco and Chicago ain't all bad.

And that is just how they were without Bush attempting to "liberate them". Had he tried, no doubt he would have bungled it and US hatred would have increased in SF, and heroin drug activities doubled, following the Iraq and Afghanistan models.

Palladian -See, argument is choice. I can choose if I want to argue or not, and if my opponent is a serious and worthy person who actually wants to have an honest discussion and debate.

Pretty rich, a discussion of worthiness coming from a true chickenhawk, in the pre-9/11 meaning of the word.Palladian, as a teacher, deals in a world of secret shame, which makes him bellicose tending to not argue with, but insult those posters he thinks are not sympatheric to his lifestyle.

Think, a Zionist-loving Republican teacher. And a gay one who thinks salami-smoking younger men is the pinnacle of his existence. He has dark secrets he doesn't want his peers at worl to know. Especially the Republican part.Being a chickenhawk might be forgivable in their eyes...

Sofa King: You came in with your "Liberation Day" comment - implicitly equating Bush with Hitler,

Really? I equated Bush with Hitler? Only in your imagination. I never did in words. You just made that up.

I sincerely feel liberated. I've been jokingly referring to it as "Liberation Day" for some time.

You claim to want dialog and insult-free argument. Explain how your first comment furthered that.

Well, someone could say, "What are you talking about? I think Bush brought freedom to new heights." And then I make my case (as I did later in the thread).

But not one can could make the case that Bush expanded freedom (except for big business, for which a good case can be made). Instead, we saw the insult gusher spew forth. (And, you blame me for their insults, incidentally).

Then, on a post specifically about boorish behavior - by Democrats - you fly off the handle at the suggestion that some Democrats are boors!

First, I gently separated myself from the chants. I disagreed with them.

But, again, false. I took offense at someone mangling the name of the Democratic Party ...all the while denouncing juvenile behavior and pointed out the irony of their comment.

So..... should I conclude by your comments that the fault lies with me for objecting to the mangling of the name, but not to the mangler?

Do you really think that's fair?

You make statements like "We're filled with JOY for a new day for our country and our world"

Again, I can't see your point. I'm trying to be positive and that makes me a terrible person?

Really? I equated Bush with Hitler? Only in your imagination. I never did in words.

Do you understand the meaning of the word "implicitly?" And fine, maybe Hitler is too specific to be plausible. But as the very wiki page you point to states, "Liberation Day" is normally used in case of revolution or removal of foreign occupation, both of which are inappropriate to a constitutional inauguration. I think you know this perfectly well.

Well, someone could say, "What are you talking about? I think Bush brought freedom to new heights."

They could, if they were in a mood to ignore your ridiculous equation. But if you want to start an argument by being inflammatory and hoping people ask you to clarify your inflammatory comments, you shouldn't be so shocked that you simply inflame instead. Why, you yourself are inflamed by every perceived slight imaginable.

First, I gently separated myself from the chants. I disagreed with them.

I don't believe you did.

But, again, false. I took offense at someone mangling the name of the Democratic Party ...all the while denouncing juvenile behavior and pointed out the irony of their comment.

I can't believe you would take offense to this. It wasn't even directed at you. I sincerely believe you just wanted an excuse to attack someone and looked for anything.

So..... should I conclude by your comments that the fault lies with me for objecting to the mangling of the name, but not to the mangler?

You're the one who brought that whole exchange up. My previous comment stands even if that never took place.

Again, I can't see your point. I'm trying to be positive and that makes me a terrible person?

My point is that you are making universal, not individual statements. Don't you know the difference between "I" and "we?" You are thereby attempting to deny that there is any real basis for hard feelings. There is, and what you are doing is rude.

"Pretty rich, a discussion of worthiness coming from a true chickenhawk, in the pre-9/11 meaning of the word."

Again with the pedophile insinuations! Is diddling little children all you think about?

"Palladian, as a teacher, deals in a world of secret shame,"

LOL. Yes! Secret shame!

Lord, you sound like a 1954 issue of Confidential magazine. "This week: Shocking! The strange, twilight world of the homosexual!"

"...which makes him bellicose tending to not argue with, but insult those posters he thinks are not sympatheric to his lifestyle."

Wait, so now even the liberals I insult aren't sympathetic to my lifestyle, in the strange, twilight world of the homosexual?! Geez, when the liberals don't even have sympathy for the homosexual, you know you're in trouble!

"Think, a Zionist-loving Republican teacher."

Wait, are you talking about me or Victor Davis Hanson? I'm not now nor have I ever been a Republican. And I'm not sure what "Zionist-loving" means. Did you mean to call me a Zionist? Or are you suggesting that, while I'm not a Zionist myself, I have affection for Zionists? Maybe it's because my father's family came from a town in Utah near Zion National Park. Are you calling my boyfriend a Zionist, since I love him?

I am a teacher, so you got one thing correct.

"And a gay one who thinks salami-smoking younger men is the pinnacle of his existence."

Ah yes, because I just can't stop talking about how smoking salamis brings meaning to my life. I've never made salami, smoked or otherwise, with any men, younger or older. The closest I've come was making Pâté de Campagne Forestière with my boyfriend. Well, I did most of the work. And I love to cook, but pinnacle of my life?

Or are you talking about something else?

"He has dark secrets he doesn't want his peers at worl to know."

Ah yes, me and my dark secrets, hidden in the strange, twilight world of the homosexual...

"Especially the Republican part."

I'm not now nor have I ever been a Republican. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

But I don't hide my views from my students or my colleagues, though being an art school and given the independent nature of my college, we tend not to get into political discussions. It seems you're projecting, as you're probably the one who has to hide the fact that you're a socialist Jew-hater from your co-workers. That's even less socially acceptable than being a smoked Pâté making non-Republican homosexual.

"Being a chickenhawk might be forgivable in their eyes..."

Ok, now you've lost me.

Wait! What am I doing?! Why am I wasting my time "fisking" an anonymous Nazi?!

it would be unconscionable to just let him fly to Crawford for a dignified retirement.

Crawford was a prop. He's going to Dallas, where's there's golf and good restaurants. Crawford will be nice for a weekend getaway, but I doubt W will be clearing much brush anymore, without the photo-ops.

But as the very wiki page you point to states, "Liberation Day" is normally used in case of revolution or removal of foreign occupation, both of which are inappropriate to a constitutional inauguration. I think you know this perfectly well.

Well many of us did refer to Bush as the Oval Office Occupant for a number of years.

You claim this simple phrase is "inflammatory" but are fine with "loons" and any other right-based inflammatory statements.

Yeesh. All this huff and puff over a simple phrase. Relax, SK, have a home brew.

I wonder how many would be thrilled if the helicopter was LANDING and Mr. Bush was to stroll down Pennsylvania Ave to another term.

If the crowd could have though of a chant to "get lost and good riddance" it would perhaps be more fitting but you get what you get.

and to all of you who assume that the crowd was purely made up of democrats, please check your poll numbers...Mr Bush suffers the distain of nearly a majority of republicans...leaving him with...drum roll please...22%.

There are all sort of messages there. Part of one....The George W. Bush Presidential Library is now in the planning stages andaccepting donations. The Library will include:

The Hurricane Katrina Room, which is still under construction.The Alberto Gonzales Room, where you won't be able to remember anything.The Texas Air National Guard Room, where you don't even have to show up.The Walter Reed Hospital Room, where they don't let you in.The Guantanamo Bay Room, where they don't let you out.

it would be unconscionable to just let him fly to Crawford for a dignified retirement.

Crawford was a prop. He's going to Dallas, where's there's golf and good restaurants. Crawford will be nice for a weekend getaway, but I doubt W will be clearing much brush anymore, without the photo-ops. 6:13 PM

Tell ya what, Beth...let's check back on him over a year. If you're wrong, you can either blow me, or clean my kitchen. If you're right, I'll either go down on you, or mow your lawn. Deal?

Of course I want to say thank you. I voted for Bush in 2004 for one reason only (aside from the fact that Kerry was/is a complete moron) and that was victory in Iraq. I was scared to death that the liberals would succeed in defeating America ONCE AGAIN on the international stage. But Bush delivered. It took a while, but that’s okay. He delivered. That alone washes all the other disappointments (amnesty, etc.) away. God bless you, President Bush.

Of course I want to say thank you. I voted for Bush in 2004 for one reason only (aside from the fact that Kerry was/is a complete moron) and that was victory in Iraq. I was scared to death that the liberals would succeed in defeating America ONCE AGAIN on the international stage. But Bush delivered. It took a while, but that’s okay. He delivered. That alone washes all the other disappointments (amnesty, etc.) away. God bless you, President Bush.

Doyle: "I'm reminded of 2003 when Democrats were regularly accused of having terrorist sympathies."

-Whereas, later we learned that they have terrorist "family friends", not sympathies. Anyway, nobody would say that if prominent Dems would stop sympathising with terrorists.

garage - or how about the leftists who tried to egg Bush in 2001 and forced him to cancel the walk to the White House, which of course Obama was able to enjoy in peace today. And since when is having poll watchers and scrutineers a bad things? Oh right, when it interfered with ACORN-type fraud?

I know he has a house in Dallas now. I don't think that means there will be tumbleweeds blowing through Crawford, though for all I know people like Cindy Sheehan have made it unpleasant enough for him to sell out and move.

But he has always been physically active, physically fit, and I don't think he got into brush-cutting for the sake of the cameras. There are better things to do for the cameras, like horse riding, which apparently he does not do.

Nonetheless, on the condition that you bathe, I am prepared to hold up my end of the bet. Sounds like you're not (I bathe). It's OK, you probably couldn't take the whole thing anyway ;>.