I agree that the ending was awsome but i wouldnt go so far as saying it made the series. The whole series was just beautifuly done. Though it might take you watching it a second time to truely understand it and appriciate it. I really didnt see it making it a parody of itself at all.

My displeasure is with the arc after Grave is revived, when he's fighting his way through the Superiors. I felt it was poorly handled, up until the Bunji fight.

03-26-2007, 09:26 PM

alucius

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolerimmortal

My displeasure is with the arc after Grave is revived, when he's fighting his way through the Superiors. I felt it was poorly handled, up until the Bunji fight.

How do you think it was poorly handled? Could you give me an example of what you think was poorly handled?

03-27-2007, 01:21 PM

pachira

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolerimmortal

Gungrave's ending was completely perfect. It singlehandedly redeemed a series that had almost become a parody of itself due to some of the later episodes. What did you dislike?

I feel very strongly about this subject , but I'll try to be brief.

I felt that the last episode was completely absurd because it is fucking retarded that Brandon would die trying to save the corrupted, treacherous, merciless, evil man who had killed him and everybody he loved or cared about.

I mean for God's sakes! why would he do that?

You are Brandon heat, you have allowed yourself to be turned into a zomie for two reasons: 1. to stop Harry and just as importantly 2. to protect Maria, Big Daddy and their family. You have struggled through countless battles, and killed many of your other former friends and colleagues without hesitation such as Bear and Bunji to carry out these aims. So why, why the flying fuck would you suddenly let that all go to shit?!?
You had just tried to kill Harry a second before, the only reason he didn't have a nice large hole going through his head is because you had run out of amunition! You were prepared to exact a righteous revenge upon him a few minutes ago, so what changed?!?
Sure, I can understand wanting to have a chat with him before you finish him, perhaps try to understand why he did all that crap. But just what in God's name would possess you to willingly die trying to save this hateful little man? why can't you see that he isn't the same person you were once friends with? if he was still in power, he'd try to kill you with his orcmen right there! So why?!
Why did you forget about Mika, the only family you have left? she's 16 years old and has absolutely NO-ONE left in the world to look after her. she needs you! and you're just going to abandon her? after the number of times you risked life and limb trying to save her, you're just going to forget about her? leave her to fend for herself?

the episode was made of inconsistency and stupidity. The Brandon from the last 25 episodes wouldn't do any of that bullshit. I consider the last episode to be a betrayal of Brandon's character. That is why I loathe it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolerimmortal

My displeasure is with the arc after Grave is revived, when he's fighting his way through the Superiors. I felt it was poorly handled, up until the Bunji fight.

Which bunji fight?

edit: I'm not very good at being brief.

03-27-2007, 01:25 PM

pachira

edit: woops.

03-27-2007, 04:37 PM

Kaasen

Ah, everyone always mentions Neon Genesis Evangelion. But you know, the whole thing was a roller coaster ride, taking a drastic turn half way through the series-- it turned from a somewhat humourous and fanservice-y mecha anime with religious overtones, to being a thought-provoking, serious anime that sometimes got downright depressing. I know that the ending made people feel uncomfortable or frustrated or confused, but I think that overall, it was a good ending. The ending was a little out there, unexpected and unusual. But that didn't make it bad. From the start you knew this wasn't going to be just another anime, and if you didn't halfway expect an ending was that was extremely different from what you expected, then you clearly just missed the mark. The movies, on the other hand, which most people liked, lacked a lot of heart, I thought. Sure, there were a couple impressive battle scenes and great graphics, but with all the characters dying, I just plain felt like no one that made the anime cared about any of those characters. Honestly, I think they were meant to be watched together and you cannot choose to accept one over the other.

What others have had disappointing endings...

Death Note. Went on too long, I think, the ending was a little... odd... I half-wanted Raito to get away with it.Fruits Basket. Pah, the ending was stupid, everyone ended up happy, for the most part... shoujo should end a little less happily. It's a drama, c'mon!Elfen Lief. Not that I particularly liked the manga or the anime, but the ending just... urrgg. I felt like the series went absolutely nowhere.Fullmetal Alchemist. Okay, wasn't a huge fan of this one either, but c'mon. End the series early, don't make up crap at the end because the anime caught up to the manga.Cardcaptor Sakura. Haha, I'm a dork. I'm a big fan of this series, but the ending made me want to throw up. It just wound down into a pit of misery until Sakura ended up admitting her love to Sayoran, which was totally unlike her. This is one of those cases where I thought, "If I did this manga, I would have done it a bit differently..."YuYu Hakusho. Not a huge fan of this one either, but the ending felt rushed and... blah. Nothing was resolved, basically.Gravitation. Okay, I know the anime ended before the manga, but puh-lease. That ending was retarded.

Haha, I ended up writing quite a bit. I seem to have read too much manga and read too much anime with bad endings. :-k

03-27-2007, 05:57 PM

coolerimmortal

Quote:

Originally Posted by alucius

How do you think it was poorly handled? Could you give me an example of what you think was poorly handled?

It felt generic. The show went from the flashbacks, which were absolutely brilliant, to an absurd series of battles against monstrous foes. It was too "out there". Too much focus was placed on the "monstrous" nature of Grave's enemies...it seemed juvenile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

I feel very strongly about this subject , but I'll try to be brief.

I felt that the last episode was completely absurd because it is fucking retarded that Brandon would die trying to save the corrupted, treacherous, merciless, evil man who had killed him and everybody he loved or cared about.

I mean for God's sakes! why would he do that?

In the end, even after everything Harry did, he was still the greatest friend Brandon ever had. The ending showed just how much their friendship meant. I understand your objection, but I really thought it was quite touching.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

You are Brandon heat, you have allowed yourself to be turned into a zomie for two reasons: 1. to stop Harry and just as importantly 2. to protect Maria, Big Daddy and their family. You have struggled through countless battles, and killed many of your other former friends and colleagues without hesitation such as Bear and Bunji to carry out these aims. So why, why the flying fuck would you suddenly let that all go to shit?!?
You had just tried to kill Harry a second before, the only reason he didn't have a nice large hole going through his head is because you had run out of amunition! You were prepared to exact a righteous revenge upon him a few minutes ago, so what changed?!?
Sure, I can understand wanting to have a chat with him before you finish him, perhaps try to understand why he did all that crap. But just what in God's name would possess you to willingly die trying to save this hateful little man? why can't you see that he isn't the same person you were once friends with? if he was still in power, he'd try to kill you with his orcmen right there! So why?!
Why did you forget about Mika, the only family you have left? she's 16 years old and has absolutely NO-ONE left in the world to look after her. she needs you! and you're just going to abandon her? after the number of times you risked life and limb trying to save her, you're just going to forget about her? leave her to fend for herself?

The entire series was about friendship, and Harry and Brandon's was incredibly strong. In the end, they both truly regretted what they had become. During their final moments, they basically became who they had been in their earlier years, and they forgave each other. They died friends once more. As I said, I understand your objections, but I really thought that was the perfect way to end it. Had Grave just blown Harry away it would have been hollow and meaningless, as "revenge" endings tend to be. That's why I don't want Berserk to end with Guts murdering an unrepentant Griffith, for example.

I can't comment too much, though, because it's been two years since I saw the ending.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

the episode was made of inconsistency and stupidity. The Brandon from the last 25 episodes wouldn't do any of that bullshit. I consider the last episode to be a betrayal of Brandon's character. That is why I loathe it.

And I thought it was the perfect conclusion to his character arc. To each his own, I suppose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

Which bunji fight?

edit: I'm not very good at being brief.

a) The final one.

b) No worries.

03-28-2007, 03:10 AM

pachira

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolerimmortal

The entire series was about friendship, and Harry and Brandon's was incredibly strong. In the end, they both truly regretted what they had become. During their final moments, they basically became who they had been in their earlier years, and they forgave each other. They died friends once more. As I said, I understand your objections, but I really thought that was the perfect way to end it. Had Grave just blown Harry away it would have been hollow and meaningless, as "revenge" endings tend to be. That's why I don't want Berserk to end with Guts murdering an unrepentant Griffith, for example.

I can't comment too much, though, because it's been two years since I saw the ending.

all right, I accept that I'm in the minority with my views and interpretations.

It's as you say, there friendship is incredible -unbelievable. I simply cannot bring myself to either believe or accept it or even comprehend it. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from an anime, but it was ridiculously unrealistic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolerimmortal

a) The final one.

b) No worries.

didn't you like the episode where he fought Bear Walken? I found it very touching when he looks back one everything he's done for his daughter and compares it with that guy who was sentanced to death for placing his son before the code of iron.
p.s. about berserk, Guts is very different from Brandon and the friendshio between Guts and Griffith wasn't nearly as strong.

03-28-2007, 04:57 PM

coolerimmortal

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

all right, I accept that I'm in the minority with my views and interpretations.

It's as you say, there friendship is incredible -unbelievable. I simply cannot bring myself to either believe or accept it or even comprehend it. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from an anime, but it was ridiculously unrealistic.

I understand your objections, and they are valid. I was willing to overlook it, that's all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

didn't you like the episode where he fought Bear Walken? I found it very touching when he looks back one everything he's done for his daughter and compares it with that guy who was sentanced to death for placing his son before the code of iron.

I was more irritated that he killed Bear in the first place, if I recall correctly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pachira

p.s. about berserk, Guts is very different from Brandon and the friendshio between Guts and Griffith wasn't nearly as strong.

Time will tell...Berserk isn't over. I think it's on par with Brandon and Harry's.

03-29-2007, 07:47 PM

alucius

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolerimmortal

In the end, even after everything Harry did, he was still the greatest friend Brandon ever had. The ending showed just how much their friendship meant. I understand your objection, but I really thought it was quite touching.

I totaly agree with your opinion. I thought it was touching too the ending and how it showed in the end how true thier friendship was. I think really the whole series was focused on friendship and trust.

In the end the only thing that bugged me about the series is the fact that Harry forgot the promise to the three friends that died to give them a proper barial and grave and all they had were scattered stones on the grave, but then again this wasn't really a major point in the series. Still it buggs me.

This talk is getting really good and so far i thought everyones apinions were very interesting. :axe:

04-10-2007, 12:03 PM

alucius

Just finished a manga whose ending partly let me down. It is El Hazard Wanderers. It seemed the relationship between the main character and the princess progressed so slowly through the series and finally at the very last scene of the last episode it zooms out so much that you cant tell if they finally kissed or if they hugged, again.