5/12/09 Mod Edit: Edited in specifications for Latias being Uber with Soul Dew attached and OU without said item. Also, HAHA NEW EDIT I WIN EP.
-R_R

11/6/09 Edit: Suck it R_R!
-EP

1/6/10 Edit: Updated.
-EP

Last edited by EvilPenguin on Thu Feb 17, 2011 6:19 pm, edited 11 times in total.

Made this post look prettier. I still lolR_R

Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:45 am

splinter

Psychic Trainer

Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:27 pmPosts: 97

I don't exactly see why Girafarig is considered a NU. He has decent(Not great) stats, and a pretty wide movepool, being the only pokemon who can learn Crunch, Psychic, and Shadow Ball until Snorlax learned Crunch in DP.

_________________NEED:

My Shinies: PM Me Anytime For Trades

Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:36 am

Wilesthegreat

Dragon Tamer

Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:51 amPosts: 105

your ruining the forum, there's no way you made up that list yourself

Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:34 pm

ship_in_a_bottle

Bug Catcher

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:38 amPosts: 15

Wilesthegreat wrote:

your ruining the forum, there's no way you made up that list yourself

I obiously got some help from peopeXD.

Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:34 pm

Zero Cool

Pokemon Ranger

Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 1:17 amPosts: 563

seeing as you just joined, there is no way you had time to create every one of the guides you have posted. in order to get a stickeied guide it must be 100% your work and your words...

Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:47 pm

ship_in_a_bottle

Bug Catcher

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:38 amPosts: 15

CLaSsicK wrote:

seeing as you just joined, there is no way you had time to create every one of the guides you have posted. in order to get a stickeied guide it must be 100% your work and your words...

i did it in my spare time on research a little before i joind if you can look at my history the first day i joined i wasn't on the site for 5 days i spent 2-3 days working on these posts.

Sat Aug 18, 2007 9:50 pm

Frost

THE POWER IS ON!

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:29 amPosts: 1566Location: Purple Ranger

I don't think Dewgong is still NU. Hydration is a great ability and people who would honestly use Phione before Dewgong in UU are foolish in my eyes. Phione might have ten higher base Attack/SA but a Hydrorester should have good defensive stats and Dewgong certainly has Phione beaten in that regard; he also gets STAB on Ice Beam, and honestly has a better movepool than Phione (which is sad, because Dewgong's is still rather shallow).

I see no reason why Froslass or Glaceon should be Borderline. Glaceon, in particular, is nothing but an inferior Vaporeon with a worse type, worse trait and worse movepool. Froslass is incredibly fragile and doesn't pack that much of a punch unless using Choice Specs, and BOTH get raped by Stealth Rock when they switch in.

Also, people who think Magneton is Borderline in DP make me laugh. The only reason Magneton was overused in Advanced was Magnet Pull - period, end of story. Magneton's sole role was to counter Skarmory, was who was incredibly common. Take away Magnet Pull/Skarmory and Magneton would be a pretty meh UU, just like it was in GSC.

Wynaut being a Borderline in DP is out of the question. Everything is hitting much harder now, there are new ways to get around Shadow Tag, and Wynaut's HP and Defenses will not stand up the way Wobbuffet's can.

There is absolutely no reason that Noctowl shouldn't be Neverused if Pidgeot is, because Pidgeot is better than Noctowl really. I have no idea why Luxray is in Borderline instead of UU, because his movepool sucks and his stats are pretty bad too (mediocre defenses, pisspoor speed and Attack stats supported by, respectively, Spark/Ice Fang/Fire Fang and Thunderbolt/Hidden Power). It is a mediocre UU at best, and that's only because of Choice Band.

If Manaphy goes to Ubers, then people can make just as strong a case for Tyranitar going there.

By the way, BL Pokemon are not always considered "underpowered for the OU metagame." Usage is a big factor in determining whether a Pokemon is OU (more common) or BL (less common, but can still be viable in OU); however, there are some cases like Entei where the Pokemon sucks it in OU but would rape UU, therefore landing them in "Borderline."

Sat Aug 18, 2007 10:59 pm

Wilesthegreat

Dragon Tamer

Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:51 amPosts: 105

ship_in_a_bottle wrote:

CLaSsicK wrote:

seeing as you just joined, there is no way you had time to create every one of the guides you have posted. in order to get a stickeied guide it must be 100% your work and your words...

i did it in my spare time on research a little before i joind if you can look at my history the first day i joined i wasn't on the site for 5 days i spent 2-3 days working on these posts.

so your not an expert, thats why frost found so many problems

Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:42 am

thekiller0703

Pokemon Ranger

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:19 pmPosts: 693Location: On the left side of the street... Take THAT Society!

Frost wrote:

If Manaphy goes to Ubers, then people can make just as strong a case for Tyranitar going there.

The only thing manaphy really has for it is being able to be a hydrorester and at the same time hit back with a STAB'd surf, preferably in the rain.
I personally dislike the idea of Tyranitar being an uber...

If Manaphy goes to Ubers, then people can make just as strong a case for Tyranitar going there.

The only thing manaphy really has for it is being able to be a hydrorester and at the same time hit back with a STAB'd surf, preferably in the rain.
I personally dislike the idea of Tyranitar being an uber...

Yeah, that would mean I wouldn't be able to use him anymore.

Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:24 am

Frost

THE POWER IS ON!

Joined: Wed Aug 04, 2004 3:29 amPosts: 1566Location: Purple Ranger

Smogon had a discussion about tiers and Manaphy's disputed Uberness actually had little to do with Hydration Rest. Manaphy has all base 100 stats, putting him at the edge of Ubers already, but its real trump card is Tail Glow due to his fairly good Special movepool. Add in Hydration, Heart Swap and a lack of weaknesses (unlike Celebi) to Manaphy's strengths and it was reasoned that Manaphy will not go down without taking out at least two Pokemon with it, and Pokemon that powerful (like Wobbuffet) are usually taken out of OU for fear of overcentralization.

Wilesthegreat wrote:

so your not an expert, thats why frost found so many problems

You guys really need to give the original poster a break. Even a bunch experts can debate endlessly regarding which tier a Pokemon should be placed in. This is because the tiers are partially based on usage, and Pokemon usage is a dynamic thing. Advanced had a perfect cyclical example: people whored Skarmory for being a great physical wall, then Magneton usage flared up to counter Skarmory, then Dugtrio popped up to counter Magneton, and finally Skarmory would be used more because Dugtrio scared away Magneton. Rather than offer points of view, you've all just been flaming him.

I don't get it. Why is Wobbuffet in the banned list? They all have the same abilities and movesets. Plus, with cruddy Def. and SpDef. it can easily be KOed.

It's not like you see the opponent send out Wooby and you start sweating bullets. Seriously.

Yeah but they're just preventing from 2 people sending out Wobbuffet sice it learns no real moves and have that Shadow Tag ability. I mean really.. imagine 2 Wobbys fighting each other funny.. but dumb. Kinda like Ash Vs Samurai with their 2 Metapods.

Shadow Tag breaks Wobbuffet beyond any sort of repair; it essentially ensures that Wobbuffet has no counters because nothing can actually switch IN to him. Other than a Ghost with a Physical move or a Dark with a Special move, Wobbuffet beats anything in the game one-on-one, especially if you have good prediction (but Encore can throw prediction out the window entirely anyway). It doesn't matter that his Defenses are so blah when he has massive HP to back it up; add in Wish support and Wobbuffet will take multiple beatings and destroy many opposing Pokemon.

Also, DP has fixed it so that Shadow Tag Pokemon can switch out when against other Shadow Tag Pokemon. And guess what? Most tier lists are still banning Wobbuffet by putting him in Ubers.

Shadow Tag breaks Wobbuffet beyond any sort of repair; it essentially ensures that Wobbuffet has no counters because nothing can actually switch IN to him. Other than a Ghost with a Physical move or a Dark with a Special move, Wobbuffet beats anything in the game one-on-one, especially if you have good prediction (but Encore can throw prediction out the window entirely anyway). It doesn't matter that his Defenses are so blah when he has massive HP to back it up; add in Wish support and Wobbuffet will take multiple beatings and destroy many opposing Pokemon.

Also, DP has fixed it so that Shadow Tag Pokemon can switch out when against other Shadow Tag Pokemon. And guess what? Most tier lists are still banning Wobbuffet by putting him in Ubers.

I said Wobbuffet was easy to KO. Trust me. I'll explain.

I always use a stat-up move when Wooby first comes out. That way if it uses Encore, I'll max my stats while all of his moves, with the exception of Safeguard (and only for one turn), will keep on failing because I never attack.
He'd have to use Destiny Bond the turn before Encore wears off if he wants to take me down because he's so slow. In case that happens, I use the stat-up move again so that I don't kill myself.

Then when my stats are maxed, I unleash an atttack That 1-hit KO's Wooby before he can use another Destiny Bond. Mirror Coat and Counter won't work either because Wooby faints. Now I'm ready to sweep the rest of the team. And I doubt the Wobbuffet will be holding a Focus Sash, but it probably will after I've written this.
--------------------
There is a way to get out of Shadow Tag/Arena Trap/Mean Look. The Shed Shell allows a Pokemon holding it to switch out no matter what. But really, nobody uses it.

Sun Aug 19, 2007 7:49 pm

Gnaaye

Pokemon Ranger

Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:22 amPosts: 815

Wobbie @ Focus Sash = Death opponent. Nuff said.

And IMO Dugtrio is not a OU. True, Arena Trap kills alot of Pokemon but the thing is, they can switch at the same time you switch in. Plus, you aren't gonna OHKO anything with a poor 80 Base Attack. Even CB+STAB don't help it. The only thing good about it is its speed, but with the addition of Choice Scarf, it's gonna be overrun by alot of Pokemon. Not to mention that SpecMence can safely switch in a Dugtrio and fire a Specs-Boosted Hydro Pump which would probably KO. The only real problem for it is Stone Edge, which sucks in terms of accuracy and PP.

I also disagree that Rampardos is OU. Heck, it's a borderline UU at most. True, it's attack stat is enough to KO just about anything but with 58 base speed plus 60 and 50 at physical and special defenses respectively, it's gonnabe outrun and KOed by nearly everyone, if not all. Even it's mediocre HP doesn't help it. Plus, it's weak to Surf and Aura Sphere, which are incredibly common on special sweepers.

Machamp and Medicham aren't good enough for OU either. Medicham is basically a weaker Heracross and Machamp is just not good enough. Too slow, not enough defenses.

And Charizard is a UU. For a fact. Stealth Rock RAPES it.

Regice = OU, not BL
Pikachu = Either UU or NU. Too bad defenses.

_________________(\__/) (='.'=) This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your ('')_('') signature to help him gain world domination

i think that the only banned pokemon should be the legendaries. They are far more stronger in their base stats then any other pokemon. even the OU. and i laugh at people who are so afraid of tyranitar that they want to ban him/her/it, I use a tyranitar myself but it gets raped all the time by people over the net. If some one is having trouble with certain pokemon, well thats because their strategy isn't equipped to fight it. I often get raped by: Swampert, gengar, Skamory, umbreon, Starmie, ninjask. but i don't want to ban them. I respect all trainers who use any team without legendaries. I do however allow to fight: Articuno, Zapdoes, Moltres, Raikou, Suicune, entei, latios, Latias, and regirock, regice, registeel. I get very intimidated when i see one of these guys but that doesn't mean i can't beat them.

to sum it all up i like the pokemon XD Orre collisium rules, but with singles.

oh and i have a question........Why does everyone want to put a ban on lati@s? i'm confused.

_________________

Mon Aug 20, 2007 5:04 pm

thekiller0703

Pokemon Ranger

Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:19 pmPosts: 693Location: On the left side of the street... Take THAT Society!

Either Latios or Latias holding a soul dew= death for your enemies.
Fast with boosted special stats... not allowed in tournament play.

If Wobby encores your stat-upping, they get a free switch in to a counter. Or something else that can set up in return.

Lati@s without Soul Dew rape OU, it is a proven fact that has been tested many times. Chatot, Sunflora, Tropius, and Raticate may have to be moved up. Chatot gets 92 SAttk, 91 Spd, Nasty Plot, Sing, Encore, Hyper Voice, and Chatter. Sunflora has decent SDef, excellent SAttk, and Solar Power, Synthesis, and Growth to back it up. Raticate has Guts, good Spd, Pursuit, Me First, Sucker Punch, Super Fang, Thunder Wave, the QA/Endeavor combo, and Reversal. Tropius's defenses are pretty good, and it gets a number of things such as Curse, Roost, Synthesis, Leech Seed, and Roar/WW, not to mention Chlorophyll and Solar Power.

Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:54 am

Wilesthegreat

Dragon Tamer

Joined: Sun Sep 24, 2006 11:51 amPosts: 105

there debating this on smogon...

Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:03 pm

FaceLess

Ace Trainer

Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2007 7:59 pmPosts: 399

thekiller0703 wrote:

Either Latios or Latias holding a soul dew= death for your enemies.
Fast with boosted special stats... not allowed in tournament play.

That's about it... and I think Lati@s w/o soul dew shouldn't be uber. Can't back it up, that's just my opinion :roll:

Ambipom is a total jerk.

Stab technician fake out, and u-turn can drive someone nuts. He's got Two moveslots left over for personal preference, or he can just go hard core technician. Dugtrio, was majorly overused back in the day with arena trap and the fastest stab earthquake, he's not so much atm I'd say.

Medicham is still majorly powerful. Perhaps moreso now than ever.

Yanmega can be effective and I see it alot. It's the strangest thing but he seems to work. Protect one turn to speed boost, and have the proper assassin tools and he messes people up.

Breloom has been given even More healing ability as well as status effect immunity, once he's brought in against someone slower than him, he's guaranteed at least a leech seed, and killing him practically Requires losing a pokemon.

I know it's weird to be commenting on your stuff, but I only did so because I have no idea why the others on your list would be OU. Rampardos is a bit misleading since it is strong, but it has so many common counters, it's hard to get an advantage with him.

Oh and to Everyone Lati@s are still very uber without soul dew. They are the best draco meteor users outside Arceus. They're very fast for dragons, and they have either higher special attack than Salamence (the OU Draco meteor user) or enough special defense to take ice beams (depending on stab and user spec atck ect) choice specs Draco metoer is something that only like...bronzong and Blissey can take one hit from full blast, and depending on evs bronzong still gets 2 hit koed.

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