I'm by no means the biggest Al Saunders fan in the world but there are a few facts that I believe have earned him the right to take over the Chiefs:

1) He's been loyal to the franchise and Vermeil and stayed the course when he likely could have landed a head coaching gig elsewhere;

2) He's kept the Chiefs offense in the top five over the past four years (including the top spot the last two years);

3) As much as I felt he DIDN'T get it during the first eight games of the year I truly started to believe that he DID get it over the last half of the season. He recognized the dimension that Larry Johnson brought to this offense and he leaned on the guy heavily as he rightly should have...I had fewer problems with the play calling and the results seemed to speak for themselves after the Buffalo debacle;

4) Al would keep the offense intact and I have to believe the loyalty of his assistants would innure to the benefit of the Chiefs...bottomline is the number one offense would remain intact which to me is the biggest concern we should have in switching gears. If we move to a different offense it will cost us at least two games next year (if not more).

Bottomline is that Al Saunders will be a head coach somewhere next season. And given the names being bandied about (Butch Davis, Herm Edwards, Gregg Williams) I think I - and the Chiefs players - would feel more confident with a guy that's proven he can succeed (even if it's only on his side of the ball) then someone coming off a 4-12 season.

luv

01-02-2006, 02:03 PM

Offense, offense, offense. We have offense. We need defense.

Rain Man

01-02-2006, 02:05 PM

I'm in the Saunders camp. We'll lose him if we don't promote him.

Hoover

01-02-2006, 02:14 PM

If I'm Al I want to be the HC in Kansas City. He knows his talent, its in place. Why on earth would he want to leave and go to Detroit and have a bunch of WR's and thats about it?

I think its more about who Carl wants.

Frankie

01-02-2006, 02:34 PM

If I'm Al I want to be the HC in Kansas City. He knows his talent, its in place. Why on earth would he want to leave and go to Detroit and have a bunch of WR's and thats about it?

I think its more about who Carl wants.That's the unfortunate fact.
:banghead:

StcChief

01-02-2006, 02:34 PM

If I'm Al I want to be the HC in Kansas City. He knows his talent, its in place. Why on earth would he want to leave and go to Detroit and have a bunch of WR's and thats about it?

I think its more about who Carl wants.
Right on. I think it's all about Carl. his coaching decisions have worked out so well except the stands are full.

Al Sauders would be a good HC why not in KC.

Move up Solari to OC? or shop that job around?

Switching gears may cost us when the offense seems still in good shape.

Defense is turning the corner.

siberian khatru

01-02-2006, 02:38 PM

While I respect and appreciate the Saunders way, I don't think it's the ONLY way.

I think with LJ, we could bring in another offensive philosophy that uses smashmouth running mixed with play-action passing. This would especially be conducive to our mediocre WR talent, while maximizing Gonzo's skills at TE. We could easily adjust with the personnel we have; it wouldn't be a major change at all, and in fact would play toward our O's strengths.

I think we need a rededication to the D, from top to bottom.

MichaelH

01-02-2006, 02:42 PM

While I respect and appreciate the Saunders way, I don't think it's the ONLY way.

I think with LJ, we could bring in another offensive philosophy that uses smashmouth running mixed with play-action passing. This would especially be conducive to our mediocre WR talent, while maximizing Gonzo's skills at TE. We could easily adjust with the personnel we have; it wouldn't be a major change at all, and in fact would play toward our O's strengths.

I think we need a rededication to the D, from top to bottom.

I agree but don't we use that now? We use the run to set up the play action pass. Then we keep the LB's back and pound Larry. I'm not Al's biggest fan either but I like the way this offense has turned out.

keg in kc

01-02-2006, 02:42 PM

If we play smashmouth football next year, I may have to gouge my eyes out. I hate pussy-fied play-not-to-lose football. Nothing about the offense needs to change, or should change, except perhaps a little more attention to clock management. Leave the offense alone, and continue the progressive recovery of the defense.

luv

01-02-2006, 02:43 PM

I agree but don't we use that now? We use the run to set up the play action pass. Then we keep the LB's back and pound Larry. I'm not Al's biggest fan either but I like the way this offense has turned out.
That's good, but what will he do for the defense as HC?

B2chiefsfan

01-02-2006, 02:45 PM

If we play smashmouth football next year, I may have to gouge my eyes out. I hate pussy-fied play-not-to-lose football. Nothing about the offense needs to change, or should change, except perhaps a little more attention to clock management. Leave the offense alone, and continue the progressive recovery of the defense.

Draft, FA,............Defense, Defense, Defense.....

MichaelH

01-02-2006, 02:46 PM

That's good, but what will he do for the defense as HC?

I think the defense is turning the corner. I say let Gun hire his own assistants. The defense needs a tackle, a linebacker and an end. The rest of the guys can stay as long as they learn to tackle.

B2chiefsfan

01-02-2006, 02:47 PM

Draft, FA,............Defense, Defense, Defense.....

Gunther should be the only one in the War Room during the draft.......assuming he's still here....

siberian khatru

01-02-2006, 02:47 PM

I agree but don't we use that now? We use the run to set up the play action pass. Then we keep the LB's back and pound Larry. I'm not Al's biggest fan either but I like the way this offense has turned out.

I think he gets too pass-happy at times.

By no means am I saying Al's a failure. I like the way the O has turned out too. I'm just saying that I think we have the personnel to succeed even if Al goes.

siberian khatru

01-02-2006, 02:47 PM

If we play smashmouth football next year, I may have to gouge my eyes out. I hate pussy-fied play-not-to-lose football. Nothing about the offense needs to change, or should change, except perhaps a little more attention to clock management. Leave the offense alone, and continue the progressive recovery of the defense.

Smashmouth does not equal Martyball. They are two different animals.

milkman

01-02-2006, 02:49 PM

If we play smashmouth football next year, I may have to gouge my eyes out. I hate pussy-fied play-not-to-lose football. Nothing about the offense needs to change, or should change, except perhaps a little more attention to clock management. Leave the offense alone, and continue the progressive recovery of the defense.

Smashmouth football does not equal play not to lose.

keg in kc

01-02-2006, 02:50 PM

Draft, FA,............Defense, Defense, Defense.....I don't agree with that, either. Draft needs to be BAA, at least at the top, excluding RB. We're very old on offense, and you've got to think beyond 2006 on draft day, rather than looking only at short term needs.

And FA depends on what's available, both in terms of money to spend and what positions are represented. I have a feeling we won't have money to spend, because so much of the team is still under contract, and because we spent so much in '05. If you want a lot of free agents, then you'll have to dismantle the team, and that would be shifting into a rebuilding mode. Which is fine if that's what you want to do.

milkman

01-02-2006, 02:50 PM

Gunther should be the only one in the War Room during the draft.......assuming he's still here....

Let's see.

He was in the war room for William Bartee.

The guy is a terrible talent evaluator.

FringeNC

01-02-2006, 02:54 PM

I think he gets too pass-happy at times.

By no means am I saying Al's a failure. I like the way the O has turned out too. I'm just saying that I think we have the personnel to succeed even if Al goes.

I bet we run the ball more than any team in the NFL except Atlanta and Denver.

keg in kc

01-02-2006, 02:55 PM

It's a matter of opinion, and in mine, smashmouth football does equal martyball. I like balance on offense. I don't want to be predictable, and I don't like conservative playcalling. At all.

You're welcome to disagree with that opinion. But you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to try to change yours.

FringeNC

01-02-2006, 02:58 PM

It's a matter of opinion, and in mine, smashmouth football does equal martyball. I like balance on offense. I don't want to be predictable, and I don't like conservative playcalling. At all.

You're welcome to disagree with that opinion. But you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to try to change yours.

Yeah, when's the last time a smash-mouth team put up 400 yards and 28-30 points per game?

milkman

01-02-2006, 02:58 PM

It's a matter of opinion, and in mine, smashmouth football does equal martyball. I like balance on offense. I don't want to be predictable, and I don't like conservative playcalling. At all.

You're welcome to disagree with that opinion. But you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to try to change yours.

Well damn, there goes a good argument! :cuss:

You suck! :cuss:

:)

siberian khatru

01-02-2006, 03:00 PM

I bet we run the ball more than any team in the NFL except Atlanta and Denver.

We were sixth in rushing attempts in 2005.

But your point is taken. We run the ball a lot. My criticism is more situational -- it's not the number of times we run or throw, it's WHEN we run or throw.

But, look, this is essentially nit-picking. Our offensive points scored over the last four years are impressive. Al gets the credit for that.

I was just saying, I think we could have an effective offense without all of Al's quirks.

siberian khatru

01-02-2006, 03:00 PM

It's a matter of opinion, and in mine, smashmouth football does equal martyball. I like balance on offense. I don't want to be predictable, and I don't like conservative playcalling. At all.

You're welcome to disagree with that opinion. But you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to try to change yours.

OK, then, f*ck off. :)

Mr. Laz

01-02-2006, 03:02 PM

Offense, offense, offense. We have offense. We need defense.
we need defense without losing the offense we have.

Brock

01-02-2006, 03:04 PM

I think the people who are looking for a big shakeup are going to be disappointed. I think it's going to be Al Saunders, with the same coaching staff.

siberian khatru

01-02-2006, 03:06 PM

I think the people who are looking for a big shakeup are going to be disappointed. I think it's going to be Al Saunders, with the same coaching staff.

So you think Carl was playing poker yesterday ("I know Al's strengths ... AND his weaknesses")?

Brock

01-02-2006, 03:07 PM

So you think Carl was playing poker yesterday ("I know Al's strengths ... AND his weaknesses")?

The only way to be sure Carl is lying is if he is talking.

FringeNC

01-02-2006, 03:08 PM

I think the people who are looking for a big shakeup are going to be disappointed. I think it's going to be Al Saunders, with the same coaching staff.

How can Saunders coach Detroit and KC at the same time?

Mecca

01-02-2006, 03:08 PM

I think the odds of Al Saunders being the head coach are at about 5%.

shaneo69

01-02-2006, 03:22 PM

It's a matter of opinion, and in mine, smashmouth football does equal martyball. I like balance on offense. I don't want to be predictable, and I don't like conservative playcalling. At all.

You're welcome to disagree with that opinion. But you're not going to change my mind, and I'm not going to try to change yours.

With LJ in the backfield in 2005, we were a smashmouth offense.

luv

01-02-2006, 03:27 PM

we need defense without losing the offense we have.
Agreed. So, do we...?

1. Get a defensively minded HC and hope that Al stays
2. Promote Al, and hope Gunther follows through
3. Promote Al, and hope he finds a new DC

I'm starting to lean towards liking Jeff Fisher if available, and only if Al will stay. Otherwise, I'm indecisive between options 2 and 3.

Mecca

01-02-2006, 03:28 PM

Al's not staying.........and Gunther needs to go either way.

luv

01-02-2006, 03:30 PM

Al's not staying.........and Gunther needs to go either way.
Okay, if Al goes either way, who do we have to upkeep the offense? And do you think we need to replace Gunther defensively? And who do you see as HC?

Hoover

01-02-2006, 03:32 PM

This is Saunders best time ever to get another HC position. There is no way he takes one for the team (again) to stay as our OC. He will either be our HC, or someone elses.

Mecca

01-02-2006, 03:33 PM

The only way Al stays is if he's headcoach, I don't see it happening. I don't want Gunther back either, he didn't do well enough with the players he asked for to justify him returning.

I'm honestly kinda eh on who they're going to hire to be headcoach. I just hope the guy brings in an entire new defensive staff of coaches. They need to atleast be smart enough to keep a few of the offensive coaches and have the OC be someone who knows our offense.

milkman

01-02-2006, 03:38 PM

Agreed. So, do we...?

1. Get a defensively minded HC and hope that Al stays
2. Promote Al, and hope Gunther follows through
3. Promote Al, and hope he finds a new DC

I'm starting to lean towards liking Jeff Fisher if available, and only if Al will stay. Otherwise, I'm indecisive between options 2 and 3.

I'm really warming up to the idea of Al as HC, with Mike Solari as OC, and Dom Capers as DC.

Al won't stay in any other capacity.

Of course, I can almost gaurantee you that Carl will hire someone that I won't be happy with.

redbrian

01-02-2006, 04:26 PM

Al Saunders will be a head coach next year.

There are 8 slots open at present (and more could open), if Al leaves, he will take most of the offensive coaching staff (and possibly a few key players) with him.

Several of the key players would rather move on or not come back than learn a new system leaving a decimated offense in need of major rebuilding.

To throw this offense out the window would be totally insane; to change this offensive scheme would be one of the dumbest moves in Chiefs history.

One of the things that the Chiefs brand of the Gibbs offense does not get enough credit for is the toughness of it.

All players including Trent are expected to block, it’s a smash mouth Air Coryell system if you will.

As far as running or passing at the right time there is no such thing in this system, the idea it to be so good at all aspects of the game that you keep the defense confused and unsure of it’s self.

If you pass or run “when you are supposed to” the advantage goes to the defense, this system is all about keeping the defense guessing as to what the hell you are going to do.

Personally I’d like to see Al get his reward and be given the head coaching position, I think Gunther has changed the mentality of the d and is on the right track. The key now is finding an OC who can operate this system to the standards set by Al, which would be a lot easer than rebuilding an entire team including players and coaches.

Frankie

01-02-2006, 04:34 PM

Al Saunders will be a head coach next year.

There are 8 slots open at present (and more could open), if Al leaves, he will take most of the offensive coaching staff (and possibly a few key players) with him.

Several of the key players would rather move on or not come back than learn a new system leaving a decimated offense in need of major rebuilding.

To throw this offense out the window would be totally insane; to change this offensive scheme would be one of the dumbest moves in Chiefs history.

One of the things that the Chiefs brand of the Gibbs offense does not get enough credit for is the toughness of it.

All players including Trent are expected to block, it’s a smash mouth Air Coryell system if you will.

As far as running or passing at the right time there is no such thing in this system, the idea it to be so good at all aspects of the game that you keep the defense confused and unsure of it’s self.

If you pass or run “when you are supposed to” the advantage goes to the defense, this system is all about keeping the defense guessing as to what the hell you are going to do.

Personally I’d like to see Al get his reward and be given the head coaching position, I think Gunther has changed the mentality of the d and is on the right track. The key now is finding an OC who can operate this system to the standards set by Al, which would be a lot easer than rebuilding an entire team including players and coaches.
Good Post. :thumb:

luv

01-02-2006, 04:39 PM

I'm really warming up to the idea of Al as HC, with Mike Solari as OC, and Dom Capers as DC.

Al won't stay in any other capacity.

Of course, I can almost gaurantee you that Carl will hire someone that I won't be happy with.
So, who won't you like? That way, we know who our options are. :p

milkman

01-02-2006, 04:40 PM

So, who won't you like? That way, we know who our options are. :p

Almost everybody else!

I am the resident hater!

luv

01-02-2006, 04:42 PM

Almost everybody else!

I am the resident hater!
Well now, that narrows it down a bunch.

StcChief

01-02-2006, 04:43 PM

AS as our HC seems very likely.

Carl will go thru motions and interview others including the token and pick AS.

Solari as OC?

milkman

01-02-2006, 04:47 PM

AS as our HC seems very likely.

Carl will go thru motions and interview others including the token and pick AS.