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Yes it does. If I'm able to keep power up on my group members by using a technique that involves Focus that is absolutely fine and doesn't make me a "bad" captain. Focus IS a Captain buff, and the fact I use a Captain Buff doesn't make me (or anyone else) a bad Captain.

But that's the thing, your only goal seems to be to keep your group up on power, which is only one of many perspectives the Captain class can help with. Damage and healing are two important parts as well, and you're really ignoring them when you don't acknowledge the effect of 1800 crit and how that will actually save you power in the end compared to 340 icpr.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

The fact you do it one way and I do it another is what you call strategy, and everyone develops their own that best suits their own individual play style. Stop pretending because I like to use Focus that makes me a bad Captain and the fact you don't use it makes you a good Captain. That is ridiculous in the extreme. Play your captain like you want, I'll play it like I want. There is no need to try and turn this into some epeen contest about who is bad and who is good.

I think 350 ICPR is pretty good and has it's uses. You don't. Let's just end it there.

Stop pretending that all strategies are equally good because they arent. You're fooling noone but yourself and those who end up in your fellowships.

You're absolutely missing the point if you think I dont find 350 icpr to be good, the more the better. What I'm saying is that 1800 crit is better in every way than 340 icpr is, and if you can't even understand the difference between those two perspectives you're bound to never understand the real issue here.

But that's the thing, your only goal seems to be to keep your group up on power, which is only one of many perspectives the Captain class can help with. Damage and healing are two important parts as well, and you're really ignoring them when you don't acknowledge the effect of 1800 crit and how that will actually save you power in the end compared to 340 icpr.

Stop pretending that all strategies are equally good because they arent. You're fooling noone but yourself and those who end up in your fellowships.

You're absolutely missing the point if you think I dont find 350 icpr to be good, the more the better. What I'm saying is that 1800 crit is better in every way than 340 icpr is, and if you can't even understand the difference between those two perspectives you're bound to never understand the real issue here.

That is not my "only" goal... and I never said all strategies are equally good. You just make up things I say that I never did.

And that is your opinion that 1800 crit is better in every way than 340 ICPR. We differ about that, and I think there are times 340 ICPR is more useful than 1800 critical rating. They are rare, but it does happen on occasion. So you are the one that is "missing the point" - and the point is we just disagree. Now accept it and stop putting words in my mouth and trying to describe people who disagree with you or use Focus as "bad". It's just silly.

That is not my "only" goal... and I never said all strategies are equally good. You just make up things I say that I never did.

And that is your opinion that 1800 crit is better in every way than 340 ICPR. We differ about that, and I think there are times 340 ICPR is more useful than 1800 critical rating. They are rare, but it does happen on occasion. So you are the one that is "missing the point" - and the point is we just disagree. Now accept it and stop putting words in my mouth and trying to describe people who disagree with you or use Focus as "bad". It's just silly.

One Rally Cry - ONE - will generate more PPS than Focus ever will.

The same can be said about FB + Blade Bro - and FB + Song Bro so badly smokes Focus that it makes you wonder why Focus even exists.

Since you clearly love HoH, I would have thought that FB + Song Bro would be a staple in your arsenal.

Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

That is not my "only" goal... and I never said all strategies are equally good. You just make up things I say that I never did.

And that is your opinion that 1800 crit is better in every way than 340 ICPR. We differ about that, and I think there are times 340 ICPR is more useful than 1800 critical rating. They are rare, but it does happen on occasion. So you are the one that is "missing the point" - and the point is we just disagree. Now accept it and stop putting words in my mouth and trying to describe people who disagree with you or use Focus as "bad". It's just silly.

You never said it, but you imply it when you say you're not a bad Captain despite you can't argue for how you make up for the 1800 crit rating you don't give your fellowship. There's nothing in what you've said so far that even suggests Focus brings more to the group than just to make up for your lack of power heals.
Your only concern about your Champion example seemed to be whether he had power or not, his damage/DPS is not mentioned even once despite DPS is way more important than having a full power bar.

It is far from only my opinion that 1800 crit is better than 340 icpr. On the other hand you seem to be fairly alone with the opposite opinion. Also I have given several arguments for why crit is better whereas you never bring anything to the board except "that's my opinion" and "it helps".

You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't make Focus any better even though it very much needs it.

You never said it, but you imply it when you say you're not a bad Captain despite you can't argue for how you make up for the 1800 crit rating you don't give your fellowship. There's nothing in what you've said so far that even suggests Focus brings more to the group than just to make up for your lack of power heals.
Your only concern about your Champion example seemed to be whether he had power or not, his damage/DPS is not mentioned even once despite DPS is way more important than having a full power bar.

It is far from only my opinion that 1800 crit is better than 340 icpr. On the other hand you seem to be fairly alone with the opposite opinion. Also I have given several arguments for why crit is better whereas you never bring anything to the board except "that's my opinion" and "it helps".

You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't make Focus any better even though it very much needs it.

Your argument is basically any captain who ever dares use Focus is a bad captain and needs to learn how to play Elrantiri. And believe you me, I am very comfortable opposing you on such an opinion, rather I'm in the minority on this thread or not. And just because I have used focus on a champion who is running out of power before doesn't mean I care only about giving people power. You draw odd conclusions from what I say... if I give someone a parry buff does that imply I only care about giving people parry according to you? That's just silly.

To sum this up: you have no idea how I play. You have never even played with me before. So please, stop trying to attack me and call me "bad" simply because I have found a use for the Focus buff from time to time and think it's a respectable buff. As I told Almagnus earlier, people who have to resort to name-calling and attacking others personally are always the first to lose the debate. And nothing you have said to me has convinced me of your point of view either, so we are even on that score. The only difference, I didn't start trying to insult the way you play Captain and call you "bad" because of it.

The same can be said about FB + Blade Bro - and FB + Song Bro so badly smokes Focus that it makes you wonder why Focus even exists.

Since you clearly love HoH, I would have thought that FB + Song Bro would be a staple in your arsenal.

I never said FB+ Song Brother wasn't better than focus for power regen. And even if I assume one Rally Cry will generate more power than Focus ever will, what is your point? I said Now for Wrath was good too, and never tried to say Focus was better. So why are you aiming this post at me?

Where we differ is I think 350 ICPR is pretty handy also, where as you feel it's always a waste of buff space when compared to 1800 critical rating. That is where we disagree, and nothing you have said has changed my mind about it. So probably best we just end this.

These constant attempts to turn this debate into something personal about me is getting tiresome.

Your argument is basically any captain who ever dares use Focus is a bad captain and needs to learn how to play Elrantiri. And believe you me, not only am I very comfortable opposing you on such an opinion, I am actually pleased to be doing so.

And just because I have used focus on a champion who is running out of power before doesn't mean I care only about giving people power. You draw odd conclusions from what I say...

To sum this up: you have no idea how I play. You have never even played with me before. So please, stop trying to attack me and call me "bad" simply because I have found a use for the Focus buff from time to time and think it's a respectable buff. As I told Almagnus earlier, people who have to resort to name-calling and attacking others personally are always the first to lose the debate. And nothing you have said to me has convinced me of your point of view either, so we are even on that score. The only difference, I didn't start trying to insult the way you play Captain because of it.

Using Focus isn't a problem (I use it about 20 times whenever I'm in Snowbourn), using Focus thinking it's better than Relentless shows you don't understand the effect of critical heals and hits and how you save power that way. Therefore I don't even need to know how you play when your PoV here is as misguided as it seems to be, especially when you do absolutely nothing to argue your point. As for a Captain that don't get the effect of critical hits, that's a Captain in a very bad position.

It has nothing to do with "Play Elrantiri", on the other hand it's "Play Jeremi" if anything. I have not seen a Captain on Evernight or Snowbourn use Focus for anything but trolling the last 2-3 years, and yet you think my way of playing is the special one. It's the other way around

You're still doing well to say absolutely nothing about how you intend to make up for the 1800 crit rating you don't give to your fellowship member(s?) because you can't heal enough power on your own and thereby lower the amount of crits your fellowship members will be doing.

Using Focus isn't a problem (I use it about 20 times whenever I'm in Snowbourn), using Focus thinking it's better than Relentless shows you don't understand the effect of critical heals and hits and how you save power that way. Therefore I don't even need to know how you play when your PoV here is as misguided as it seems to be, especially when you do absolutely nothing to argue your point. As for a Captain that don't get the effect of critical hits, that's a Captain in a very bad position.

It has nothing to do with "Play Elrantiri", on the other hand it's "Play Jeremi" if anything. I have not seen a Captain on Evernight or Snowbourn use Focus for anything but trolling the last 2-3 years, and yet you think my way of playing is the special one. It's the other way around

You're still doing well to say absolutely nothing about how you intend to make up for the 1800 crit rating you don't give to your fellowship member(s?) because you can't heal enough power on your own and thereby lower the amount of crits your fellowship members will be doing.

I never said Focus was better than Relentless attack. If you would stop imagining I said things I never did in some desperate attempt to label me a "bad" Captain over something as silly as the fact I on occasion use the Focus buff then perhaps you would understand what I actually do say... nor do I remember saying the way you play is a "special" one... I don't know how you play. That is your business. Not mine. I just trying to say the way you play is not the way all other Captains must play else they are "bad".

What I said is if a player is running out of power I believe 350 ICPR is of more benefit to them than 1800 critical rating. Sorry if you disagree, but that's just been what my own experiences have taught me. Now you can turn that simple belief into some huge controversy over the way I play my captain and how it means I know nothing about the class if you want, but I think it's ridiculous to do so.

In my opinion focus is a respectable buff. In your opinion it is not. It's just a simple innocent disagreement. It happens. No need to turn this into world war 3 and get personal about it.

I never said Focus was better than Relentless attack. If you would stop imagining I said things I never did in some desperate attempt to label me a "bad" Captain over something as silly as the fact I on occasion use the Focus buff then perhaps you would understand what I actually do say... nor did I ever say the way you play is a "special" one... I don't know how you play. That is your business. Not mine.

What I said is if a player is running out of power I believe 350 ICPR is of more benefit to them than 1800 critical rating. Sorry if you disagree, but that's just been what my own experiences have taught me. Now you can turn that simple belief into some huge controversy over the way I play my captain and how it means I know nothing about the class if you want, but it's ridiculous to do so lol

Oh right, you never said "better", just "more beneficial". What a Huuuuuge Difference. Anyway...

You're still wrong when you bother putting Focus on anyone just because they're running out of power. You lower their critical chance (including criticals on power heals) and waste time you could have used on making more defeat events.

Oh right, you never said "better", just "more beneficial". What a Huuuuuge Difference. Anyway...

You're still wrong when you bother putting Focus on anyone just because they're running out of power. You lower their critical chance (including criticals on power heals) and waste time you could have used on making more defeat events.

Again, you are missing the context. I never said Focus was more beneficial than Relentless attack either. I said IF the player is running out of power THEN I believe 350 ICPR is of more benefit to them than 1800 Critical Rating would be. And yes, I understand you think I am wrong about that. You have told me that over and over. We have established we do not agree about that. But neither of us has convinced the other differently so it's time to just agree to disagree.

Again, you are missing the context. I never said Focus was more beneficial than Relentless attack either. I said IF the player is running out of power THEN I believe 350 ICPR is of more benefit to them than 1800 Critical Rating would be. And yes, I understand you think I am wrong about that. You have told me that over and over. We have established we do not agree about that. But neither of us has convinced the other differently so it's time to just agree to disagree.

The context doesnt matter in this case as I've said several times. There's no time where Focus is better than Relentless unless you as a Captain isn't able to power-heal enough. And as Magnus have said, keeping others up on power isn't hard.

The context doesnt matter in this case as I've said several times. There's no time where Focus is better than Relentless unless you as a Captain isn't able to power-heal enough. And as Magnus have said, keeping others up on power isn't hard.

Elrantiri, the context does matter if you are quoting me incorrectly. You can't just ignore the context of what I said to make it seem like I was saying something I wasn't. That isn't fair to me.

And yes, I know you think 1800 critical rating is always better than 350 ICPR. But we just disagree about that. To repeat, and in my opinion - if a player is running out of power 350 ICPR is more beneficial to them than 1800 Critical Rating is. That's just my opinion though and you are welcome to disagree with it if you like ^^

jeremi, if your group is running out of power on annuminas runs you have much bigger problems than a measley 350 icpr..

How is it even possible to have yours ( or anyone elses ) power bar ever drop below 90% in those instances? Ever? The boss fights in there are &&&&&&edly fast, and there are enough defeat responses (about a thousand of them) that you should be a veritable battery for power to your group.

You say that you are clueless as to why nearly ALL captains hate focus....I think the rest of us are equally confused as to why you insist on pounding nails with a rock.

Iri

Apparently it certainly seems so. Just know my confusion is every bit as real as your own ^^

And sorry I took so long to answer your post. I wasn't trying to be "evasive" or anything. I just missed it amidst the sea of controversy my respect for the Focus buff has generated lol

To answer your questions, which were well-asked and specific - the Annumimas dungeon I was talking about is the one with the giant trees inside. One of the fights involves a rather long fight killing lots of adds, and one of my champions (who is a very good champion by the way) was running out of of power on that fight. So I gave him focus, and it made a difference. There was no pounding of nails with a rock involved, just a simple buff switch that took a second - and the Champion had such high critical rating and damage I doubt he noticed losing the 1800 Critical Rating much. I know I sure didn't - and he still went through mobs like a knife through butter.

And you ignored the context of what I said previously - saying I said Focus was better than Relentless Attack. I never said that, so I'm not pushing it hard. I'm just correcting the misquote and adding the proper context so it reflects what I actually did say.

Apparently it certainly seems so. Just know my confusion is every bit as real as your own ^^

And sorry I took so long to answer your post. I wasn't trying to be "evasive" or anything. I just missed it amidst the sea of controversy my respect for the Focus buff has generated lol

To answer your questions, which were well-asked and specific - the Annumimas dungeon I was talking about is the one with the giant trees inside. One of the fights involves a rather long fight killing lots of adds, and one of my champions (who is a very good champion by the way) was running out of of power on that fight. So I gave him focus, and it made a difference. There was no pounding of nails with a rock involved, just a simple buff switch that took a second - and the Champion had such high critical rating and damage I doubt he noticed losing the 1800 Critical Rating much. I know I sure didn't - and he still went through mobs like a knife through butter.

Seriously? You say it yourself, a long fight with lots of adds, and yet you couldn't keep them up on power? That's quite a performance lol

Originally Posted by Jeremi

What is "not really"?

And you ignored the context of what I said previously - saying I said Focus was better than Relentless Attack. I never said that, so I'm not pushing it hard. I'm just correcting the misquote and adding the proper context so it reflects what I actually did say.

If it really helps you I'll agree you said it was only when the person is low on power, but as I said I don't see the difference when the main point is that Focus is worse than Relentless all the time. In fact, applying it when someone is low on power makes even less sense as it's too late by then.

Seriously? You say it yourself, a long fight with lots of adds, and yet you couldn't keep them up on power? That's quite a performance lol

.

Ok Elrantiri, think I've had enough. I've tried to be polite with you, but seeing as you are so intent on trying to attack me personally think I'm going to do myself a favor and add you to my ignore list. So don't bother answering to my posts anymore, I won't be able to see them. Good bye

Raids:
If we're in a DPS race (which seems to be the trend in LotRO raiding) then Blade Brother is going to be the XBro of choice, and with FB, that's going to restore more power to the fellow than focus ever will. By switching someone to blade brother here, you are either shorting critical healing, or you are shorting DPS. By switching a tank (assumed to have parry buff) to focus, you are risking the group success because the tank just got a bit squishier.

For a mechanics based fight (like ToO Saruman), it still makes far more sense to switch to Song Bro on the mini, giving the group enough extra healing to push through the final stages of it, while also giving the DPS enough power to chew up the swarm - assuming the mechanics don't destroy your ICPR, like BG LT does. So again, focus doesn't make much sense here.

Moors:
The one place I'd use it to troll idiots because it hurts their ePeens. Yep, it has a valid usage.

So really... we have a buff that should **REALLY** be a spot power restore.... That would get more use out of it than what it currently sees.

Also, if you're the only one in the minority group - as I strongly suspect you are, since almost every single captain in the feedback thread said focus sucked - you might need to rethink your position.

Originally Posted by Jeremi

Ok Elrantiri, think I've had enough. I've tried to be polite with you, but seeing as you are so intent on trying to attack me personally think I'm going to do myself a favor and add you to my ignore list. So don't bother answering to my posts anymore, I won't be able to see them. Good bye

Elrantiri 1 - Jeremi 0

Last edited by Almagnus1; Apr 12 2013 at 12:37 AM.

Maley Oakensage, Captain of Elendilmir

Alas Elendilmir, may you *jingle jangle* forever in the Forgotten West

Also - and not to rehash this debate so I can again begin to deal with a lot of Captains on this thread basically calling me an idiot who doesn't know how to play over something so silly as the fact I like and use the Tactics: Focus buff - I'd like to correct a common mistake on this thread both myself and others have made.

I double checked my Focus buff this morning and it gives 399 ICPR. Not 340 or even 350 as has been stated earlier. So again, not a bad amount of in combat power regen.

And that is your opinion that 1800 crit is better in every way than 340 ICPR. We differ about that, and I think there are times 340 ICPR is more useful than 1800 critical rating. They are rare, but it does happen on occasion.

I don't think that anyone is bothered by you using focus. Although rarely I am sure we have all been asked for focus, I know I have. I don't think anyone denies that it happens...and rarely as you say.

The reason we hate it is the reason you describe here. Focus is rarely better than anything. We only have 3 tactics buffs, two are in demand every raid and one gets requested once a week at best. (For me like once a month at best). We hate it because it's wasting precious shelf space, we would rather that shelf space be used for something that will be used every raid not every month. We only have 3 tactics buffs, lets make all three great.

Given our better tools for power we can stand to lose focus and get a better tactics buff.

I don't think that anyone is bothered by you using focus. Although rarely I am sure we have all been asked for focus, I know I have. I don't think anyone denies that it happens...and rarely as you say.

The reason we hate it is the reason you describe here. Focus is rarely better than anything. We only have 3 tactics buffs, two are in demand every raid and one gets requested once a week at best. (For me like once a month). We hate it because it's wasting precious shelf space, we would rather that shelf space be used for something that will be used every raid not every month. We only have 3, lets make all three great.

Given our better tools for power we can stand to lose focus and get a better tactics buff.

I don't understand why you think it "wastes precious shelf space" to have it. Just throw it on a buff emblem and keep it in reserve. You don't have to give up anything to have it. But anyways... we've already gone through this and you wasn't one of the ones I was talking about in my above comments anyway. You were respectful in your disagreements with me about Focus. I was only talking about those who for some reason seemed to take my use of Focus personally and felt a need to get hostile about it. But that's ok, I have decided to be more open about using my ignore list, so that won't be a problem for me anymore.

But to clarify, when I said "rarely" in that quote I was meaning only in a group-context. Most of the frequent content I do with groups is pretty easy these days, and could easily be accomplished without any buffs at all - so might as well toss our crit so stuff dies faster. I was never trying to diminish the value of Focus by saying it's rare that I use it in groups these days. That's more of a testament to the quickness and ease of a lot of the instances in today's environment. But I personally use Focus frequently, usually every day - such as when I solo 3 man skirmishes on tier3 for a quick example.

As far as all of these "other tools" I should be using. They are often a luxury a Captain does not have. Yes, it would be nice if I could run around with Song Brother/Fellowship Brother traited all the time - but then my tank would die absent shield brother when I do harder stuff. Focus is a great way to help alleviate power problems without gimping your healing in the process.