Berry bad things

You've heard of the "goji" berry, "the most powerful food on the planet", they reckon. It's for sale on the Internet, in health food shops, via your hairdresser and at your door. It is urged upon you by workmates and peddled towards you by friends. It stops cancer, blindness, arthritis, baldness, impotence, death and the runs. It can make you live for 500 years, and it scrubs up a treat in cocktails (so they tell me). It hails from Tibet, the Himalayas, Mongolia, or somewhere in China - just not from here, or anywhere in dumb, stupid, ignorant America. There is only one drawback with the magical goji: bullshit. Unhappily, this particular element constitutes a significant percentage of the goji's active ingredient.

There is no such botanical creature as a "goji berry" anymore than there is an actual "bindi eye". What passes for goji is most commonly Lycium barbarum, or "wolfberry". This stuff can be picked up for a song at your local Chinese herbal shop and, I'm reliably informed, is as revered in the Chinese medicinal sphere to about the same degree as the ginseng root. The Chinese call it "Gou Qi Zi" - their word for "lycium", the "Qi" pronounced "chi" - which, when phonetically shoehorned into English, becomes "goji".

Where the goji can be found depends very much on who you ask, but you won't readily be told the truth - that it grows all over the world, though most abundantly in China. The people who flog it to you will tell you there is only one 'true' goji - theirs - and that it thrives in bountiful quantities in special places among "the unpolluted hills" of Tibet and the Himalayas.

In December last year, Simon Parry, a journalist for the South China Morning Post, actually went to Tibet in search of the goji, to the very region advertised as the font of the berry by the Tibet Authentic company. The folk at Tibet Authentic (whose website describes getting a prescription from a certified medical doctor, rather than drinking goji juice, as a "quick fix") refused to take Parry to their goji or tell him where he might find it, so he asked around: Tibetan medicine stores in Lhasa had never heard of Tibetan goji berries; a traditional medicine expert in Nyingtri, while confirming that berries grew in the region, declared it "impossible" that they could be exported on such a scale; an elderly nomadic couple, who had spent 60 years wandering the mountain valleys, did not recognise the goji berries when shown a picture of them.

"A pig farmer who guided us there," wrote Parry, "was perplexed at our interest. 'Sometimes, if there are many berries, we pick them and sell them in the town,' said Penba Niyama, 42. 'But Tibetan people don't buy them ... we just leave them for the birds to eat.' When I told him people in the west paid the equivalent of 140 yuan for a small bag of the berries, he shook with laughter. 'People there must be very strange,' he said."

Why Tibet might be chosen by western marketeers as the geographical seat of goji is no mystery. Despite being home to one of the more miserable peoples of Earth - an average life span of 60, one in three families hosting at least one disabled family member, an infant mortality rate of more than 1-in-10, an appalling adult literacy rate and an exiled spiritual leader so chosen because he lucky dipped the right toys as a kid - Tibet is still the "alternative" culture of choice in the eyes of dopey westerners who see it as some kind of advanced plateau of uncorrupted knowledge, its hillsides steeped in all manner of ancient wisdom apparently lost to its own wretched people. It is entirely possible that the modern obsession with Tibetan wisdom and longevity is based less on fact than on the 1933 James Hilton novel, Lost Horizon (indeed, the real-life Shangri-La, through which thousands of backpacking bozos stampede each year, was actually named after the fictitious place in the book).

But goji isn't confined to the Tibetan Plateau, rather the entire Himalayas and their immediate surrounds, the general inaccessibility of the region tailor-made for anyone selling something the root of which they do not wish to be found. Like Earl Mindell.

In fact, for all the claims that riddle "goji" literature insisting that "studies have proved" this or that, there appears to be not a shred of credible evidence that "goji" is anything but a regular antioxidant, the legend of its magical properties existing exclusively on "goji" advertising material, which is equal parts hearsay, folklore, flaky testimonial and flat out lies.

"They contain 500 times the amount of vitamin C, by weight, than oranges making them second only to camu camu berries as the richest vitamin C source on earth."

Not so. According to wikipedia - which notes its references and can at least be trusted for the fact it is selling nothing - the vitamin C content of wolfberry is "actually comparable to many citrus fruits and strawberries" and "is considerably lower than for numerous other fruits and berries, such as the Australian Kakadu 'billy goat' plum". The website continues:

"In several study groups with elderly people the berry was given once a day for 3 weeks, many beneficial results were experienced and 67% of the patients T cell transformation functions tripled and the activity of the patients white cell interleukin-2 doubled."

Really? What are these studies, where were they conducted, and by whom? One would think that those who so easily quoted from them would be able to supply a link or at least an annotation. Unless, of course, these studies don't exist. And again:

"The famed Li Qing Yuen, who apparently lived to the age of 252 years (1678-1930), consumed Goji berries daily. The life of Li Qing Yuen is the most well-documented case of extreme longevity known."

Bullshit. Li Qing Yuen's existence is no more "well-documented" in the real world than the life of Clark Kent. In 1933, TIME magazine made mention of this dubious character of folklore, noting somewhat cautiously that "to skeptical Western eyes he looked much like any Chinese 60-year-old". Assuming the old bugger actually existed at all, and that he was telling the truth if he did, the secret to his long life, according to 'the man' himself, was: "Keep a quiet heart, sit like a tortoise, walk sprightly like a pigeon and sleep like a dog" - no mention at all of pigging out on "goji". The only "documented" 'evidence' of Li Qing Yuen and goji berries together occurs in Earl Mindell's Goji: The Himalayan Health Secret, this unique history dutifully repeated nowhere else but on goji merchant website after goji merchant website. Anywhere else, and the "250-year-old man" is generally regarded an urban legend.

"The Biggest Discovery in Nutrition in the Last 40 Years!" - TIME Magazine reveals the "Breakout Superfruit of the Year".

Pretty impressive. Surely a journal as respected as TIME wouldn't write such a thing if it weren't true. Well, it's isn't, and TIME didn't. This appears to be a complete rebuilding of a quick mention goji berries scored in TIME on July 16 last year, a wrap-up of the 52nd Summer Fancy Food Show in New York in which goji was described as "this year's breakout" of the "so-called superfruits" section of the show. The only other mentions of goji in TIME have been in an October 9, 2006 cover story about bogus supplements and in a response to a letter on the popular "Ask Dr Weil" column of September 6, 2006, in which Dr Weil replied to a reader's query by asserting that goji berries "offer no special benefits that pomegranates and more familiar berries do not". But I wouldn't bother calling the number on the flyer - you'll get a recorded message telling you to leave your details so someone can flog you some goji juice.

Which is not to say the goji berry has not received some positive press - just about every brainless magazine in the country has gushed about goji in the last 12 months, almost always quoting directly from goji marketing material - even The Daily Telegraph using goji promotional websites as references for nutritional information. When reading magazines, it's important to bear in mind that they exist not primarily to bring you information, but simply to meet their own print schedules, the staff - crumby 'journalists' and eager work experience kids, mostly - finding a ready-made slab of illustrated advertorial irresistible in those frantic, empty-paged hours before deadline.

The goji experience is actually an excellent example of how the internet is not so much an "information super-highway" as a bullshit mega-sewer, with apparently credible websites set up to support fraudulent information disseminated by others.

"Tibetan Goji berries are not Chinese wolfberries and it is not correct to call the Chinese wolfberry 'Goji'," lies the website for The Tibetan Goji Berry Company. "Local harvesters are careful to distinguish the 'Goji' berry from its distantly related offspring, the Chinese Wolfberry (Lycium barbarum) ... See the 'Goji' research pages for more information." Ignoring for the moment the vendor's own curious use of ironic quotation marks, a click to the "research pages" takes one to studies that certainly prove their point, conducted at The Tanaduk Botanical Research Institute, an establishment that sounds credible enough, but turns out to have no physical presence on planet Earth. A Whois search reveals that gojiberry.com and tanaduk.com are run by the same person, the "founder" of the Tanaduk Botanical Research Institute, Bradley Dobos, presumably the same as mentioned in this story:

"Julia Dobos and her husband, Bradley Dobos, a nutritionist, started importing Gojis about six years ago and selling them online."

It seems that, no matter how deeply one wants to descend into the goji juice well, there will always be bullshit waiting to meet you. Even the consumer information panel on a bottle of the stuff tells you that much. At first, the percentage looks good - 27 mls of goji juice for every 30 mls of what's in the bottle - but look closely and you see that's 27 mls of "Goji Juice Blend". Even if there are any magical properties to the goji berry, you have no way of knowing how much of the stuff you are getting in your "blend". And to find out, of course, you'd have to go to the Himalayas, 'cos they sure don't bottle it here.

It's a matter of common sense. There are no clinical trials that can't be linked to a merchant. There are no "amazing facts" on websites that aren't selling something. For a magical "superfood" that is taking the Australia by storm, there are precious few goji outlets, or known goji offices, or bricks-and-mortar establishments that one might approach when one has a complaint. Almost exclusively, goji products are sold by folk with mobile phone numbers, PO boxes and websites - nothing that can't be deserted quickly when the heat is felt around the corner. And that heat will come, when thousands of people realise they've spent a fortune on fruit juice, or when someone who abandoned their chemotherapy for the magical powers of a fairy-tale berry decides to sue the manufacturer for their own imminent death.

Goji juice, it appears, is fruit juice, nothing much more and a good deal less. If it's not, the people who are selling it will sue me for saying so. But they won't, because then they'd have to stand up in court and tell us what it is they've been peddling.

Posted
by Jack MarxJune 25, 2007 11:13 AM

LATEST COMMENTS

A vague acquaintance threw a one litre bottle of the stuff my way a year or so ago(4 litres - $180) I can testify that the only significant noticeable effect was that I was like the baked beans scene from Blazing Saddles the entire time, sure it entertained my daughter no end but it just did not seem worth it....

There is a site that is dedicated to the truth about goji, it pretty much sums up with - it won't do ya any harm.....

I could give you the local face of goji but as he is currently facing deportation on un-goji related crimes may as well give him a break!

Posted by: BadSax on June 25, 2007 12:50 PM

Why don the cape and assume the role of crusader for the breathtakingly stupid? If people want to believe snake oil claims and part with their cash (and it seems they always have and always will), why not let them? If they can’t be assed doing their own research, I don’t see the point in doing it for them. They won’t listen to you anyway because they want to believe.

Posted by: Skankrat on June 25, 2007 12:54 PM

Isn't it remarkable that so many seemingly sensible people are so willing to believe absolute tosh? And actually pay money for the privelege of being deceived?

Also remarkable, at least to my mind, is the authorities apparent unwillingness to enforce the law that operates to protect the gullible from parting too willingly with their cash. The 1987 Fair Trading Act makes it a criminal offence to falsely represent goods and the puffed up claims for the efficacy of Goji Juice would seem to breach the act in a number of ways.

I don't claim to know much about the law (only what I've picked up from fitful viewings of Boston Legal) but surely there are ways to stop these charlatans or at the very least, punish them for being pants-on-fire-liars.

Posted by: Daisy on June 25, 2007 1:00 PM

Well done Jack in bringing these shysters into the bright light. Every few years there is a new miracle cure/herb/potion that hucksters and frauds promote. Be gone, all of them! I don't think the Daily Telegraph mentioning them this offers any credibility--let's remember this is the paper whose Sunday edition consists of three pages of "news" followed by a Form guide for the dog races, full page ads for hair transplants and classifieds for brothels and massage parlours. If your life doesn't revolve around gambling, losing your hair and hookers, you don't fit the demographic.

Posted by: NJH on June 25, 2007 1:01 PM

Good on ya Jack..Ill drink to that!

Posted by: steve on June 25, 2007 1:08 PM

Thanks for the warning Jack. Reminds me of the Ribena debacle.

Seen the advertising for goji berry but never looked into it as
I'm always wary of fads & advertising.

It's pretty sick of these people to prey on those who are ill & gullible make money. But in this day & age, i'm no longer surprised.

Posted by: Blah! on June 25, 2007 1:27 PM

Go get 'em Jack.

God help the fool who appears in your sites next.

Posted by: jf on June 25, 2007 1:35 PM

Good afternoon all. I'm just taking a quick break from my uni studies to post this... Well if you call whiling away 2 hours on virtual poker studying that is.

My line of work forces me to listen to what 'wacky' [note use of ironic quotation marks] FM broadcasters have to say and I am sick of their promotion of crap such as Goji juice.

I wish more people were interested in empiricality [the testing of claims] and rationality [thinking] than a quick fix.

Posted by: FailedPoet on June 25, 2007 1:40 PM

My alarm bells re this stuff first started ringing when I noticed distributors setting up mobile booths in shopping malls, complete with disciples prepared to tackle the unwary shopper and lead them toward the booth.

My suspicions were further aroused when I noticed a van in my area, signwritten as "Goji Distributor" and "Carpet Cleaner".

Maybe they go hand in hand, and one of its lesser-known attributes is in stain removal.

Jesus - that van really sucked! - Jack

Posted by: notwithoutmymonkey on June 25, 2007 1:40 PM

I had a run in with some goji shysters a couple of years back. Had a random call from a client who had a "very important person" that they wanted to introduce me to. I went along as my curiosity was piqued, only to be subjected to a pitch on why i should leave my career in financial services, to sell goji juice to friends, family and my professional network. The stench of a scam is strong on these people, and you make a good point that the internet has provided the perfect low cost platform from which to push their crap onto a gullible public.

It's Amway by any other name. - Jack

Posted by: yossarian on June 25, 2007 1:44 PM

(indeed, the real-life Shangri-La, through which thousands of backpacking bozos stampede each year, was actually named after the fictitious place in the book).
Posted by Jack

The town 'Shangri-la' is in Yunnan province in China, near the Tibet border. It was renamed by the Chinese government, looking for a Tibet-like tourist destination that was more accessible than Tibet itself, as Yunnan province is a highly popular destination for chinese tourists (having been there, I suspect its popularity is due to it being one of the few places in China with actual blue sky, instead of the usual grey fog.

Can only hope your story might alert a few people to the fact that miracle cures dont grow on trees.

Posted by: R on June 25, 2007 2:00 PM

For some the goji's all right,
We all have some delusional shite.
Jesus, Budhha or Allah,
Crystals, colonics, Kabbalah...
Whatever helps get you through the night.

Posted by: Toto on June 25, 2007 2:04 PM

Wow Jack - brilliant. I walked down the alternative medicine path for a while (around the same time I was a vegetarian - have reverted back to a carnivore).

Its so easy to get caught up in the health hype, abandoning all reason for the next big thing cure-all - when for me personally, everything in moderation has worked just fine over the years......the irony is that I never had a condition or true need for a cure all.......I had normal/average health.....so it’s the realisation that there are people less clued in, keep Bradley and Julia Dobos in holiday homes, that is infuriating....

As an aside - I do have a friend with a chronic health condition, so she does have to watch her diet and supplement her immune system and often frequents health food stores.......but she's pretty savvy and smart, she will have recognised a shyster in a Tibetan jumper when she sees one.......

Posted by: Chelley on June 25, 2007 2:06 PM

That was a nice little demolition job. Especially liked the links in your description of a "dumb, stupid, ignorant America."

But you do know, Jack, that the telephone, airplanes and moon landing were all faked to get one up on the Russians? Right? You do do know that, don't you Jack? DON'T YOU!!?!! Goddamn capitalist pig! You're part of the goddamn f**king conspiracy aren't you? I knew it you're against the revolution and goji berries and healthy, harmonious environmentally friendly living and everything that would only work if reality gave way for just one f**king second and let in this glorious future that me and the socialist youth network and amway and the goji berry twins are working towards! Zionist aggressor!! Capitalist pig!! I hope you don't eat any f**king majic goji berries 'cause I couldn't handle it if you lived to 250 years old! Homo.

Posted by: JL on June 25, 2007 2:13 PM

Striding through the walkway of the local shopping mall,... you dont get far without bumping into a student or backpacker with a makeshift stall trying to flog off bottles of "Dodgy-Berry Juice".

Now i've always been dubious of such folk (especially the fast talking british backpcker types), but i'm always amazed at how many fools ive seen hand their credit card over to these peddlers.

I guess if they're gullible enough to be sucked into such blatant scams, believing in the magical wonder food that will put an end to all their ills, then they deserve to part with their hard earned cash (or dole money).

Besides, if i want berries,.. i want the whole fruit, not just the juice!

Posted by: cretin on June 25, 2007 2:13 PM

Why dont we just let people believe what they want to believe. i mean, religion never did any harm now did it??

Posted by: the tony on June 25, 2007 2:17 PM

Classic. Pratchett wrote about the concept of solutions only ever being found in faraway lands, due to the perception that distance provides inherent value. All we need to do is start flogging "eucalytoads" to the Tibetans (a mysterious infusion created by force-feeding gum leaves to cane toads, but most importantly, by giving it a new name that is absolutely meaningless) and we could make a bucket!

Posted by: exumbrerum on June 25, 2007 2:28 PM

Jack, this whole thing smacks of Amway to me. I remember years ago actually losing friends over Amway because my then husband and I didnt want anything to do with it and told these so called friends that it was all a scam. They never spoke to us again. They were like Mormons on a evangelistic frenzy! Seems the Goji people are the same.

But there are so many of these so called wonder cures out there. I am always being told by well meaning friends and sometimes even strangers that I should try some new herb or other. I am getting rather tired out by it all. Hey, maybe I should try (insert here)!
Then maybe I would have more energy, confidence, health, wealth , blah , blah, blah!Then there is the new latest best selling book, DVD etc.etc. that promises to change your life, heal your relationship, give you untold wealth and on and on it goes.

Have we all really become that desperate and gullible? And don't get me started on those pathetic buffoons who have "life coaches!"
Ugh!!!!

Posted by: tess on June 25, 2007 2:31 PM

Damn straight big fella. Reminds me of an ex of mine who was right into these eastern fads. Jeez, the meditation courses, yoga, Buddhism crazes, visits to the TCM when there was nothing (physically) wrong, the list goes on. Seemed like the bandwagon made more stops at our place than anywhere else! Funniest ever was the look on her face when on a course of vile smelling black 'elixir' a friend asked her what the chinese quack had actually diagnosed as the problem - she had no idea what she was being 'treated' for.
Laughable stuff, but the only casulty in these scenes is the goose who gets scammed. If they are stupid enough to fall for the guff, good on the peddlers I say.

Posted by: spoiltmeat on June 25, 2007 2:33 PM

Hahahaha. Thanks Jack, I do so love it when these snake-oil peddlers cop a thorough demolition. I rememebr when one of my mates was keen to sign up for Herbalife and get us (his famiy, friends etc) involved. It didn't fly, let me tell you.

Gotta tell you though, I've never heard of this Goji stuff. Though the theraputic benefits do, to me, sound about as likely as this.

Posted by: Sten on June 25, 2007 2:39 PM

You think the goju berry scam is big? What about the one that has been around for some time now, about the fella who executed, and then three days later was up and around walking and talking like nothing had happened. I hear the sales of the book telling his story make even JK Rowling pee her pants...

Posted by: Mountjoy on June 25, 2007 2:43 PM

You are right to expose this fraudulent fruit, you must have a healthy vigorous mind. As such I’m sure you will be very interested in the sap of the Vlaka Vine from the Greek Island of Asto Thealo. Odysseus himself was reputed to have drink it and hence his long life and ability to please many a pungent young siren.

Vlaka Vine has thrice the vitamin C of Ribena and is the only known source of a non-carcinogenic form of nicotine called Pusti which has been smoked on the Island for thousands of years. Also a wine that actually improves the liver is made from it. This wine tastes much like Retsina, only sweeter and is called Malaka. The great poet Homer himself used to get in reveries of Malaka wine and Pusti pipes while composing and retelling his epic The Iliad.

Unfortunately Vlaka Vines only grow on Asto Thealo as this beautiful ancient isle has a unique climate and soil content. Attempts to transfer the plants by cynical Europeans have failed in every land they have tried.

However, and fortunately for your readers, I have recently found a farmer who is willing to break the ancient taboo on exporting the Vlaka Vine and now am the only source of genuine Vlaka Vine Juice, made from the freshest of leaves.

Beware, there may be others who attempt to take advantage of my generosity by trading in fake Vlaka juice. Studies have shown that fake Vlaka juice has no medicinal qualities, while ours will bring about a long, subtle high that will slowly restore vigour to all your internal organs and make you live much longer. This is the real secret of the Mediterranean diet, unavailable to Australians till now.

Please visit my website http://www.lopjaw.com/ if you are interested in this unique opportunity. We are a non-profit organisation and will distribute the Vlaka Vine freely, however there are some administration costs which we may ask you to assist with.

All praise to you Jack and to the great people of my Island where we say Asto Thealo re pusti e re vlaka to you all.

I could give you the local face of goji but as he is currently facing deportation on un-goji related crimes may as well give him a break!

* Posted by: BadSax on June 25, 2007 12:50 PM

By the way, do not beleive the stories of this man BadSax, who is not even a real saxophonist! I am very much allowed to stay in Australia. All photos of the young lady show that she looks at least 16 years of age and no sane jury will see otherwise, particularly after some of my friends in the import/export industry have explained the situation to them.

Yours Sincerely,
Napoleon Hangover.

Posted by: Napoleon Hangover on June 25, 2007 3:03 PM

I could never come at what I am about to say but as I get older I find it easier and easier....just as Skankrat said:

"Why don the cape and assume the role of crusader for the breathtakingly stupid? If people want to believe snake oil claims and part with their cash (and it seems they always have and always will), why not let them? If they canï¿½t be arsed(sorry Skanster but I had to change your S to an R there) doing their own research, I donï¿½t see the point in doing it for them. They wonï¿½t listen to you anyway because they want to believe"....

As I was saying , the older I get the more I find a strange respect for people who can take a dollar off the high and mighty .When discussing my recent diagnosis of emphysema with my sister ( lawyer and nat.remedy nut) she suggested all sorts of er , stuff , then proceeded to tell me she had 10 per cent loss of resp. function from her smoking years ago...huh? wha'? So ah I take it these remedies work a treat then sis'???

I think Jack that people are seduced by the story be it berries , talking dolphins or spiritual awakening via herbal enema, personally I'm in love with the truth .....many find the truth cold , boring and sad because it counters their firmly held views....but the truth will set us free even if it is freedom to suffer , and feel fear .

Keep it up boyo...

...wheat grass anyone ?

Posted by: Dr Goggles on June 25, 2007 3:03 PM

BTW america consist of more than the USA you know. I mean why tar canada with the dumb stupid and ignorant tag or mexico, brasil or what ever those other south american countries are.

You really are being dreadfully unfair, I mean look at thier achievements I mean canada came up with ... hmmm ... it will come to me ... Got it! Curling and ... ummm ... well I am sure its something.

So next time remember to stick with USA we don't won't those other over-achievers dragged down to the level of the US now do we?

Posted by: Jarrod on June 25, 2007 3:05 PM

Posted by: Napoleon Hangover on June 25, 2007 2:59

Hmmm.... I'm familiar with Pusti and Malaka but I've not heard Vlaka before...along the same lines, kookla?

Posted by: exumbrerum on June 25, 2007 3:13 PM

It's wild that people will swallow gobbledy gook like this on mass yet deny the benefits of research into stem cell technology where the evidence is real. Their reasons for that being we don't want to upset their Imaginary freinds.
The fact that these clowns can make a fortune out of fleecing the gullible gives me little confidence in the collective intelligence of the human race.
Back in the days when I had a boss, he used to try and sell us noni juice if we took a sicky. Maybe he was smarter than I realised because the impending hard sell lecture made me think twice about having a day off from work.

Posted by: the invisible man on June 25, 2007 3:14 PM

I recently saw an ad for Goji berries featuring the 500 times vitamin C claim so I've found your article to be most informative, thanks.

On a related topic I saw yesterday on 'Man & Wild' the guy brew some tea using spruce sprigs and claimed it contained 7 or 8 times the amount of vitamin C as orange juice (how much Vit C does a man need?)

On another related topic Casanova's memoirs tell of a society acquiantance, 'Count de Such&Such' who nobody ever saw eating and who claimed to be 400 years old. Pretty entertaining to talk to I would have thought

Posted by: MadFerret on June 25, 2007 3:14 PM

The purveyors of Himalayan Goji Berry Juice have already been nominated for the Australian Skeptics' prestigious bent spoon award for 2007 (http://www.skeptics.com.au/spoon/spoon.htm ).

The snake oil cure that really gets my goat is AAE or Advanced Allergy Elimination clinics that claim they use "an advanced and proven therapeutic technology that eliminates most forms of allergies with one treatment per allergen family".

Their 'technology' involves the patient grasping small vials of water that contains some mysterious sort of vibe from the allergen, while having a hand-held massager run up and down your spine (or, in the words of AAE, 'non-invasive accupressure' that 'retrains the body so that it no longer reacts inappropriately to the allergen').

My personal testimonial is it doesn't work.

AAE was nominated for the 2006 Bent Spoon award but lost out to "the pharmacists of Australia who manage to forget their scientific training long enough to sell quackery and snake oil in places where consumers should expect to get real medical supplies and advice".

Which is probably a little harsh although some may feel that award was justified on the grounds of supplying Sudafed PE as a nasal decongestant.

Posted by: missdrect on June 25, 2007 3:25 PM

Thank you.

Napoleon Hangover. B Sc. (Nig.) PhD. (Tas)

Now Hangover (did it not used to be Hungover? Dodgy...) - you may as well throw the recognised BA you have on there too..... it gets as much respect!

Can you add your special concoction to concentrated mushroom soup and pasta at 4am at the 24hr watering hall Descartes - I drink there 4am?

Not sure about lopjaw but last time I saw you I was struggling with lock jaw, that is for sure.

Anyway - will give ya call later, we might hok up for a schooner of Vlaka later hey....

I actually thought I went alright on that soprano the other week!

Posted by: BadSax on June 25, 2007 3:29 PM

Jack,

You could have written the same article about 99.99% of the theurapetic cosmetics industry. All those medicinal claims, on all those expensive bottles of stuff to swallow, rub-on, sniff, or roll-around-in are totally without basis.

I've often wondered how they get away with it. I guess people believe what they want to believe... praise the Lord and pass the horoscope.

Posted by: Sweetie on June 25, 2007 3:45 PM

I met some people selling this stuff at a stall at a market recently - had a taste, read the brochure that made the fantastic claims, met the recent convert who went from sceptic to salesman when it cured his longrunning... The clincher was the line 'how many bottles do you want to order (at $65/litre)'. I hadn't mentioned ordering any - and didn't - but the hard sell must work sometimes.

Can you debunk the Scientologists next, Jack. C'mon, it's safe now that Jamie Packer is getting out of media. Dianetics - what the??

Why stop there - there are absurd claims made by or on behalf of organised religion and millions of gullible followers are fleeced of their hard-earned. Dawkins and Hitchens may have been doing the job on a world scale but you can never have too much religion-debunking.

What about biodynamics - great claims made for mystical farming and gardening techniques that involve burying a cow horn packed with cow dung in a field by the light of the moon.

And global warming - is the jury REALLY still out, or is the whole thing just a conspiracy of the latte-sucking inner city lefties to destroy capitalism?

Posted by: righteous on June 25, 2007 3:58 PM

Crikey Jack, a couple of Schooners of Tooheys New per day provides all of the vitamins and minerals I will ever need. And I don't need to read all the bullshit claims on the glass, as my watering hole provides label free glasses, with not even a stupid "Best Before...." imprint.

Cheers and Good Health

Steve

Posted by: Stephen Rogers on June 25, 2007 4:13 PM

If it's not, the people who are selling it will sue me for saying so.

Lucky you're not publishing from the USA, Jack. This whole thing sounds very much like another pyrami, I mean, multi-level marketing scheme that, sadly, my father and his wife are heavily into.Mannatech, produce a range of - ahem - vitamin products.

I spent several days researching the elusive truth behind Mannatech. This was followed by a crash-course in nutritional science so as to explain to my old man that he was spending upwards of $50 per jar on ... sugar.

Being a MLM, their products are pushed by the types that leave a flyer and mobile number. I got the feeling from my research that most of their staff-body consists of lawyers sending cease-and-desist notices to anyone who attempts to expose their story.

The original recipe for the base-ingredient was given to humanity, by Jesus, in a prayer meeting. I call the entire Manntech range "sugar pills from Jesus".

Mannatech doesn't actively encourage their vendors to claim that their products cure death, HIV/AIDS, cancer, etc. That would be illegal. The problem is that they don't discourage sales-reps that actually do make these claims.

They were taken to court by the parents of a boy whose image appeared on their lables and promotions without permission. Is it cruel and cynical if I point out that said boy died of Tay-Sachs disease?

There is so much more, sad and amusing - Google if you know someone using this crap. You may not save their life but you will save them a lot of money. Provide them some info that can counter the brain-wash*cough*science provided by Mannatech in their books, videos and conferences. This information covers amazing breakthroughs in nutritional science. For some reason Jesus, doctors and nutritionists only want Mannatech to use these wonderful discoveries.

For instance, "Scientific research shows that eight glyconutrient sugars are needed at the cellular level for optimum wellness". By some hiccough of plant biology and evolution, our diets don't provide all 8 glyconutrients. Go read your wikipedia and you will see that glyconutrients are just simple-carbohydrates. Thanks to the evolution of the mammalian gut, our bodies can take simple-carbs and synthesise the missing links that Mannatech makes so much of (and, for that matter, makes so much off).

Posted by: random luser on June 25, 2007 4:15 PM

latte-sucking inner city lefties

Posted by: righteous on June 25, 2007 3:58 PM

??? Mate it is reschs or vlaka we throw back...

Posted by: BadSax on June 25, 2007 4:16 PM

Posted by: righteous on June 25, 2007 3:58 PM

What about biodynamics - great claims made for mystical farming and gardening techniques that involve burying a cow horn packed with cow dung in a field by the light of the moon.

Holy crap - I thought you were just making that up, until I Wikied it. Truly, the gullability of my fellow humans still astounds me...

Posted by: Sten on June 25, 2007 4:18 PM

Glad to see your piece has unleashed all the righteous anger at the fraudsters. Here's another one Jack, that some day I'd love you to take a crack at: Live Blood Analysis. This is a scam where they prick your finger, look at the little squiggly things wriggling aound in your drop of blood under a microscope, and then tell you that you have an impending illness (you feel fine now, but won't for long!) and should IMMEDIATELY start taking massive doses of their very expensive homeopathic potions. there's a place on Military Road in Mosman making a fortune off the N Shore matrons who want to pretend they're back at the Ashram in the 70's...Would make a great article for you to go in there undercover some day...I can just see your scathing comments!

Posted by: anon on June 25, 2007 4:24 PM

she will have recognised a shyster in a Tibetan jumper when she sees one.......

Posted by: Chelley on June 25, 2007 2:06 PM

How about a shyster in Tibetan budgie smugglers, Chelley??

Believe it or not, I had a run-in with the Goji marketing man at the beach! Some time ago, this guy in red budgie smugglers started chatting me up at the outdoor showers at my favourite beach ... and when I finally prepared to make my getaway, he miraculously pulled out his business card (from whence did it appear, I wondered afterwards? NOT from the deep recesses of his budgie smugglers, please god!!) ... which stated that he was the marketing guy for this Goji company! I had never heard of Goji berries before, but after that I started noticing how heavily it was being marketed at the health food shops. I then realised that these miracle berries were in fact the same wolf berries that my Chinese herbalist friend, who is very well-respected in Australia, has been selling in her clinic for much cheaper and without the fanfare (although she has always touted their health-giving properties). Personally, I think it would be foolish to dismiss them as pure snake oil, as they may in fact later be proven to contain some chemical constituent - such as resveratrol in red wine - that does make them particularly beneficial. But it's wise to be skeptical of all the hype until more definitive research has been conducted.

Beware the Goji man, especially if he's wearing budgie smugglers!

Posted by: Lotus on June 25, 2007 4:28 PM

Hmmm.... I'm familiar with Pusti and Malaka but I've not heard Vlaka before...along the same lines, kookla?

* Posted by: exumbrerum on June 25, 2007 3:13 PM

Basically, yeah... though I must admit, I only speak Western Suburbs School-Yard Greek.

Posted by: Napoleon Hangover on June 25, 2007 4:29 PM

anon, I can't imagine Jack going undercover with any North Shore matrons, unless he is desperste for a quick inheritance and hitches up with on of the Foghorn Leghorns of the Leafy North Shore. Shit, he would have to join a local bowlo to start with.

Posted by: Stephen Rogers on June 25, 2007 4:39 PM

Obviously it's all bullshit, but there is a faint irony in providing a link to an article by Paul 'Miracle Water' Sheehan.

Posted by: Teece on June 25, 2007 4:41 PM

Basically, yeah... though I must admit, I only speak Western Suburbs School-Yard Greek.

Posted by: Napoleon Hangover on June 25, 2007 4:29 PM

Likewise. But ever so useful when you need to vent in public.

Posted by: exumbrerum on June 25, 2007 4:43 PM

You think the goju berry scam is big? What about the one that has been around for some time now, about the fella who executed, and then three days later was up and around walking and talking like nothing had happened. I hear the sales of the book telling his story make even JK Rowling pee her pants...

Yeah and have you heard the Mountjoy scam? Some punk who if he actually had the guts to say this in person instead of the internet would end up with a broken bottle to the face? Show some respect.

Are you saying Chritians are violent yobbos, Chrisking? No wonder they nailed the first one up. - Jack

Posted by: Chrisking on June 25, 2007 4:52 PM

Beware the Goji man, especially if he's wearing budgie smugglers!

Posted by: Lotus on June 25, 2007 4:28 PM

Not one of the usual warnings I adhere to......but I will take note!

you meet the most interesting people!

Fair enough, it's not that they are devoid of nutritional value, but that there value is overly hyped.....at which point it becomes a ripoff. That's the bit that rubs me up the wrong way....

Posted by: Chelley on June 25, 2007 4:53 PM

Posted by: righteous on June 25, 2007 3:58 PM

One should never suck ones' latte, Mr Righteous. One should always sip daintily before slamming it down, just as one does with the right wing capitalist pigs..ahem.

Posted by: Lotus on June 25, 2007 4:28 PM

Forget the goji. Ignore the man in budgie smugglers. They are so wrong...I really don't want to know someone's religion before I get to "know" them.

I will test out the health giving benefits of red wine at my next opportunity.

Posted by: J9 on June 25, 2007 5:10 PM

I know I'm going to get flamed for saying this, but I'm going to play devil's advocate.

Isn't it a bit too easy to just dismiss things out-of-hand and poo-poo all 'alternative' therapies, as if they're all the same? I think we have to be skeptical about anything declared as a miracle cure-all, but there is actually good research, such as clinical trials, going on all the time about various herbs and supplements. Would John Hunter Hospital have wasted a lot of time and money investigating the use of Chinese herbs to treat hepatitis (with good results, apparently) if there wasn't some good science behind it? I guess what I'm saying is that it seems awfully presumptuous, not to mention foolish, to dismiss things that may potentially be beneficial, to not be curious enough to find out more, before declaring something to be absolutely valueless and false. This happens all the time, and it can be quite difficult to get the medical/scientific establishment to accept things that may seem a bit 'out there'. Dr Barry Marshall was ridiculed when he first proposed that bugs could be responsible for stomach ulcers. It seemed ridiculous - everyone 'knew' that it was all about gastric over-acidity, stress and spicy food. It took years for his ideas to be accepted - and who's got the last laugh - and a Nobel prize - now?

I'm not at all saying that Goji berries will one day proven to be as good as they say - how would I know? - but I just think that it's good to keep an open mind and to keep investigating so we don't miss out on some of the good stuff.

Posted by: Lotus on June 25, 2007 5:17 PM

Posted by: Lotus on June 25, 2007 5:17 PM

I can agree - there are many "alternative" medicines that help in the case where conventional medicines have failed.

Interesting you speak of Dr Barry Marshall. Having always suffered stomach problems (some self induced), was sent to a gastro specialist for treatment and he recommended a course of antibiotics to kill the bugs - and it worked.

Mind you.. I don't take any pills usually (erm...maybe recreational in the past!), am reluctant to use panadol or pain killers...I'm skeptical about the health benefits of any additional vitamins/minerals in pill form. If I'm low in iron, I'll eat more broccoli/green leafy vegies/orange vegetables (to help absorption).

So what do you think of the use of marijuana for pain treatment? A good friend had a very bad motorbike accident, was told by doctors to smoke the ol' mj to help the pain. Great until he is now addicted to such an extent that he spends his life perpetually stoned. No pain, except on his partner.

Posted by: J9 on June 25, 2007 5:41 PM

Lotus at June 25, 2007 5:17PM.

I think you're missing the point. Sceptics are angry over people being lullled by life-affirming claims. These are the main reasons Goji Juice proprietors are using to sell their wares, not that it tastes good [apparently it doesn't] or looks good.

I myself would drink Goji Juice every day if its health benefits were independently studied and it was concluded drinking it would do some wonderful thing.

The problem is the juice has never been scientifically and clinically tested but that doesn't stop sellers claiming its supposed wide ranging health benefits. I personally don't care if Goji juice exists or not, it's the cod and psuedo science i [and the community] could do without.

And your example of stomach ulcers proves my point. Dr Barry Marshall's theory was tested over a period of years and verified by the larger medical community - none of which has happened with Goji juice and other silly fads preying on people's needs to improve their mundane lives.

But I guess we all take/do things which allow us to somewhat temporarily improve our mundane existence. Personally mine are illicit but at least i have scientific knowledge on what their upsides and potentially downsides are.

Good evening all.

Well said, FailedPoet. - Jack

Posted by: FailedPoet on June 25, 2007 5:42 PM

Posted by: random luser on June 25, 2007 4:15 PM
Ooh, I know what you mean!! Mannatech stole my sister. She has turned into a tunnel visioned evangelist. It's kinda like weird cult - I feel I need to kidnap and de-program her.

Posted by: lizzy on June 25, 2007 6:09 PM

Truly, the gullability of my fellow humans still astounds me...

Posted by: Sten on June 25, 2007 4:18 PM

Oh you lot are such a bunch of jaded, world-weary cynics aren't you?

My dad has been a vegetarian since he was in his 20's and has long advocated alternative farming techniques. I was born in 1975 and even as a toddler I remember my dad turning the compost heap and planting veges. We ate organic produce long before all those Mosman mamas got onto it.

He's also into worm juice, planting by the moon, permaculture, biodynamism and biodiversity. Oh and they have been practising yoga for 30 years. They also make their own bread every day.

But, he and my stepmum drink a bottle of red every night. And smoke the occasional joint. They aren't some wacky health nuts. They just love their life.

They are also both in their 60's and are so fit and tanned and joyful I often get asked if Dad is my brother.

So, at the end of the day it's about finding a sense of joy and purpose in a crazy, violent world. If that makes someone happy, who are we to write them off?

Posted by: Snow Pea on June 25, 2007 6:11 PM

Posted by: FailedPoet on June 25, 2007 5:42 PM

FailedPoet, I agree that false, unverified claims shouldn't be made, and I too object to the marketing hype that we've seen with goji berries. I know that this sort of thing can suck a lot of people in and prey on their need to latch onto some magic bullet to cure them of all their ills. I agree that this is objectionable. I guess I was just reacting to the way that some people can go to the other extreme and dismiss everything out-of-hand instead of being open to the mere possibility that there may be some truth to some of the claims (I'm not saying this applies to you, by the way). Sometimes there's a lag between observation and understanding, like the long-standing observation of the 'French paradox' and more recent identification of resveratrol as one of the main health-giving constituents in red wine. My point has nothing to do with goji berries specifically, about which I don't have much opinion, either negative or positive (although I do have a negative opinion about the marketing hype and the budgie-smuggling-wearing man marketing it) - it was more about keeping an open mind but retaining some healthy skepticism. I'll wait to see what the research shows in the coming years.

I knew my post would get me into trouble, but I was just offering a different point of view. Of course I don't think it's wise to be too credulous, and healthy skepticism is a good thing.

Well I quite simply don't care. I am a Goji disciple and proud of it. I can confirm, for all you heathen, that it does work, and I'm living proof.

Two years ago I was diagnosed with an exotic disease affecting my bowels, and I sufferred for 18 months with this terrible affliction. A firend introduced me to a Dr Marvin, a personal friend and colleague of hers, and he provided me with a bottle of goji juice.

Well, let me tell you, I have not had a single unfortunate accident, or unwanted trip to the loo since then. I can confidently say that I'm cured!

I feel like the luckiest girl alive. Fortune favours the faithful, and yesterday I received an email from a long lost aunt in Europe, who is going to give me a half share in her inheritance! Over 30 million dollars! How lucky is that!

I put it all down to the goji berry!

I take it your penis grew larger also. - Jack

Posted by: GeraldineW on June 25, 2007 7:59 PM

The only thing you really didnt mention, Jack,was, the Dalai Lama!? Who is mentioned in relation to the picking of the berries. Now I really dont know what to make of this Goji Berries and stuff,yet, I have found these bottles with all the various fruit juices,which are usually recommended in small doses or watered down. The attack on Mannatech needs countering, I have seen a man older than me a a veteran of military training and a chronic condition that besets people over fifty,go from being bent over and unable to use his muscles to being much more flexible,his wife also.I believe he is totally sincere in wanting to sell and promote this stuff,and well it didnt take him long to recover.The problem for him,is well the price,and,not the lack of health effect outcomes.I would use it too,except for the price. The Hunzas get used quite a bit,for people who did tend to keep to themselves in rugged conditions,and some research of recent times suggest calorie control does extend life in bred captive mice at least.Whatever the reality is about Goji juice and what appears to be a sham, there is also mounting evidence that the medico supporters use organisation like media to present imbalanced views too.I get really angry with the ABC. as it hides behind its role...one of their morons was on about the placebo effect,and you can read it elsewhere.This bull called the placebo effect wouldnt pass a scientific test itself if the approach was to try to find multi-factors of why it exists.Instead it is humped around ,a convenient swag to crawl into to explain the failure of the scientific method re a drug or natural substance.The swag comes with zips ,control groups and other blah blah and is pathetic.So the ABC moron went on about having a belief in the stuff ,and,how this spiritual matter of mind makes even orthodox medicine work.Bunk!? Given the so-called complexity of the human being and their lives and environments they exist in,and conditions thereof,this is excuse territory if there ever was one.The placebo effect needs a good boot right up the arse,and replaced by some other well worn and useful description like the word unknown? Can anyone ,everyday of their lives sustain a belief in any substance,when in fact the only reason you maybe believing in it,is because it is given to you to use as a medicine? What the morons fail to point out is this,not everyone who does well because of the placebo effect,is even a willing acceptor of what is recommended,instead, where there is no valid way to make a choice,then you dont make a choice.No-one in there right mind could, therefore, at looking at any substance they take,with whatever blinkers of understanding they are wearing,give way to a sustain belief in the substance.Life is too short anyway.What, I think happens is a desire for continued existence,that may not even have a manifest expression or feeling,takes over...... the placebo effect,is a non choice,dreamed up by doctors all too willing to not acknowledge that the body heals itself.The placebo effect is therefore, an excuse to not notice the abundant over-servicing,which bedevils the medical profession as fact.Wherever,the word placebo come up look for the reasons for suggesting it,and, there is bound to be over-servicing in related territory. Scumbags.

Posted by: philiptravers on June 25, 2007 9:10 PM

Gullible? Stupid? I suppose it's easy to say that from a position of good health - of never being desperate enough to have to clutch at things that deep down you know won't help you - where your cynicism is overrided by the tiny niggling thought that 'what if this *is* the one thing that can cure me?'

Funnily enough, I don't think I'm a gullible person. What I am is a chronically sick man, and after 10 years, I've become jaded about 'magic snake oil' treatments.

That's fine - I can accept that - except the various stupid GP's I've seen over the years keep throwing this kind of rubbish in my direction, and I originally expected them to be professional enough to know the difference between medicine and multi-level marketing.

Despite my repeated insistence that I don't believe Naturopathy is any kind of concrete Science, I've had GP's recommend it all: Ambrotose, Mannatech, Olive Leaf Extract, Anti-Oxidants, Valerian Root and, the latest, Goji Juice. All worthless expenses with no effect, sapping away at my already heavily-reduced income from the 'real' medications I have to take.

No, but the fact that the GP's possess Medical Degrees seems to convince them that I know nothing valid about the obviously non-existent effects of these substances they suggest I take, or even that I'm intelligent enough to point out in the first two minutes that Mannatech was obviously a 'Pyramid Scheme'.

Yeah, what would I know? I didn't go to Medical School and develop a misguided God Complex, where I believe my knowledge is infallible.

In my own defense, I bought the Juice, purely to shut up everyone who kept telling me it was obviously all i needed to be healthy again. It's collecting a layer of dust in the cupboard above my fridge - unopened and untried because I figured it was time to let go of Hope and just learn to Accept.

I have that luxury, in that i'm not dying. My mother's about to have her third tumour removed. My stepbrother is dying of a respiratory disease. They're both buying Goji out of pure fear as they slowly see their life leaving their bodies, day by day.

I loathe people who prey on the sick with a passion, who recognize that fear and desperation and fragile vulnerability, then discard all notion emotion and compassion and only see someone to exploit.

A brutal, beautiful post, Simon. I wish your ailing family members all the best. You never know - the placebo effect can work wonders, sometimes. - Jack

Posted by: Simon on June 25, 2007 9:41 PM

My favourite con was a cosmetic firm which announced that they had added this miracle ingredient to their face creams. They called it guanin. I thought it was probably guano. Birdsh!t or superphosphate by any other name.

Posted by: The Old Guy on June 25, 2007 10:07 PM

Jack, good post. Really enjoyed it.

Toto, such a concise, precise summary in five lines of a very long post. Loved it.

Simon. As Jack said, brutal and beautiful. I hope things improve for you and yours and that your wish re the Dobos comes true.

Posted by: harlequin on June 25, 2007 10:41 PM

Simon's eloquent analysis of his personal situation, I think, sums up the problem rationalists have.

It is indeed horrible to see the condition apparent in humanity which sees fit to leach off the desperation of others [usually for no other reason but profit and greed]. Doctors who think they need to be seen as doing their job, by offering almost eternal hope, are complicit in such matters.

The esteemed Phillip Travers also makes a good point about the outcome known as the Placebo Effect. I think more study needs to be dedicated because if the Placebo Effect is true it means theoretically that many conditions could be controlled with only the power of thought... Maybe we should all think we are on some almost-sanctioned prescription drug all the time in an effort to stay healthy...

It sounds like The Secret doesn't it? And that is so believable.

Studying is keeping me up a long time.

Posted by: FailedPoet on June 25, 2007 11:19 PM

Here is another good one!Cures just about every thing.Mangosteen Juice. www.usenature.com/
If you have it it will cure it.
Frankensteins Sap!

Posted by: Josie on June 26, 2007 12:06 AM

Thank God for the USA. We may have a "dumb, stupid ignorant" president but where would the world be without us.

Posted by: Leo on June 26, 2007 2:49 AM

Posted by: Lotus on June 25, 2007 4:28 PM

Lotus, if that budgie-wearing goji salesman had been well hung, it would have been impossible for him to get so much as a business card into the DEEP recesses of his smudgies, no matter what miracle properties his product possesses, without doing himself an injury. He's a pea-penis, obviously.

So it's OK to let go of some of the trauma of that I agree, disagreeable event.

Posted by: Simon on June 25, 2007 9:41 PM

Lotus is right. Some herbs do have proven medicinal properties and are the source of modern medicines. If a GP is recommending them, perhaps you could be shown some of the science on the herb in question by the GP.

Posted by: BadSax on June 25, 2007 4:16 PM

You cannot truly be an inner city leftie elite member of the chattering classes if you don't conform to the stereotype of drinking lattes or chardonnay.

Chrisking on June 25, 2007 4:52 PM

Do they allow access to the internet in the psychiatric wing of Bathurst gaol? Does the Daily Telegraph know about this?

Posted by: righteous on June 26, 2007 6:57 AM

philiptravers.

Christ man, get some PUNCTUATION.

I actually tried to read your post but passed out about a third of the way through from asphyxiation.

Interesting that there seems to be mention of Aloe Vera anywhwere here.

Posted by: Steveinpng on June 26, 2007 8:59 AM

random luser on June 25, 2007 4:15 PM

God, you're right about that Mannatech crap. My boyfriend's mum had some friend trying to get her into it and she asked me to look into it - I have a science degree with emphasis on biochemistry and molecular biology. It only took a few minutes to realise it was a load of sh!t - but it is convincingly written. Some of the basic scientific facts they cite are true (eg. a lot of our proteins need carbohydrate attachments to work properly - it's called glycosylation) but the crap that follows from that - that you have to eat these carbohydrates in their exact forms, that our food supply is lacking in them, and by eating this Mannatech stuff you can supplement your sugars is all basically made-up. You know what? The eight sugars are actually all isomers of each other (this means they differ only in their arrangement of atoms, not chemical formula). Of the eight, I think six were a particular type of isomer that doesn't even have different bonding arrangements. All that differs is the spatial arrangement of atoms around the carbon backbone. I'm not going to go into how that all works, but believe me there is very little that distinguishes these sugars from each other, and our bodies have plenty of enzymes whose sole job is to rearrange sugars from one isomer to another.
In addition to that, they claim all this stuff about clinical trials and published studies... well, I did a literature search and turned up NOTHING. The lack of citations for these 'published studies' is telling... fact is, they don't exist in the body of reviewed scientific literature, not even in dodgy journals with really low impact factors.

I believe the reason things like this work, as well as things like The Secret, is that people don't like to accept that life is often random, and you can't always control it. Illness or just plain bad luck can strike you at any time. People can't accept that uncertainty and lack of control. They interpret medical jargon or bad news, or poor prognosis as powerlessness too.

Then along comes someone claiming that it's really all quite simple, doctors are simply pharmaceutical puppets who really do want you to feel powerless so they can control you, but you can take back control of your life, health and luck by following their simple program (for a fee of course). That lure is just too hard to resist for a lot of people. Probably why religion is so widespread too - human psychology seems to need there to be a reason for things. It also seems to have an intrinsic need to believe it can alter events that it actually has no direct influence on. It all comes down to an inability to accept the random nature of life.

The really sad thing is when people eschew medicine in favour of these 'alternative treatments' (and I'm not putting them all under the same umbrella here, some alternative treatments do actually have some benefit... I'm talking about the scams) they give up any power they might have had to beat a chronic or life-threatening illness by refusing to equip themselves with the tools to do it.

Posted by: Nefertari on June 26, 2007 10:01 AM

Goji berries? Pfft. Give me the amazing magical properties of the sloe berry - fruit of the mysterious blackthorn tree - instead. Distilled into a healthy elixir called "gin", this tonic is best served over ice to aid the release of feelings of well-being and mirth.

Posted by: Monica on June 26, 2007 11:14 AM

RE: Nefertari on June 26, 2007 10:01 AM

yes the desire to Believe is a powerful thing. It can resist the light of truth that is as clear as day to those not afflicted.

I even tried the explaining scientific method. Surely, if something is so ground breaking it would have people who have dedicated their lives to nutritional science all a ga ga?

I find it incredibly ironic that Christian extremists promote their "sugar pills from Jesus" (remember, Manna means "from heaven") as a cure for the plague sent by God to strike down the corrupted Sodomites.

Posted by: random luser on June 26, 2007 11:18 AM

A guy started talking to me one morning in the locker room at the gym, expressing his amazement about how incredible increases he'd seen in his pull-ups and squats in the past few weeks. I thought this was the preamble to an offer of something useful, like anabolic steroids or human growth hormone. Turned out that the 'juice' I was being offered was nothing but damned Goji juice. Offer me something that works next time, idiot.

Posted by: Kris on June 26, 2007 11:48 AM

When and by whom was the phrase "I may not know much about art, but I know what I like" coined?

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:11 PM

Why is it that all Bulgarian surnames end with the letter V?

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:22 PM

You people are seriously messing with my Chi.
Now I'm going to have to rearrange my furniture.
Again.

Posted by: Warhorse on June 26, 2007 12:29 PM

Given they seemingly have no use for it themselves, why do bees bother producing honey?

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:33 PM

As a Naturopath - I cannot agree with you more Jack. It is products such as these that leave all 'alternative medicines' with a bad taste in most mouths.

Trust me - for a majority of herbs and supplements that an adequately educated Naturopath/Herbalist prescibes, there is evidence (strong evidence at that) from well known and highly esteemed universities and journals.

The trouble facing our profession is cleaning up the crap - bogus remedies and practitioners and eductating the public on a diet in moderation, an active lifestyle, a positive mind and taking responsibility for our heath rather than racing to our GP at the slighted sniffle.

On GP's - please know that they have NO training in herbs and very limited in nutrition and vitamin/mineral supplementation... Would you see an podiatrist about a headache?

Posted by: jess on June 26, 2007 12:34 PM

Posted by: Leo on June 26, 2007 2:49 AM

Keep 'em separate tiger.... oh hang on, pun, I mean lion - thinking GWB is a tool does not mean hating the US population (well maybe Texans). Don't lean on the world sheriff thing too much, a lot of oldies remember the first few years of a certain world war that the US would not come and party at until it was already rockin......

Posted by: BadSax on June 26, 2007 12:35 PM

Is hydrogen the fuel of the future?

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:44 PM

Is there any substantial difference between empirical and anecdotal evidence?

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:55 PM

Mountjoy - nice to see you back. Islam doesn't have the monopoly of violent fundamentalists. One of the reasons I despise religion - it brings out the worst in a lot of people. Or maybe it just gives them an "acceptable" reason to be violent.

I loved your put-down Jack!

"It's wild that people will swallow gobbledygook like this on mass yet deny the benefits of research into stem cell technology where the evidence is real. Their reasons for that being we don't want to upset their Imaginary friends.
The fact that these clowns can make a fortune out of fleecing the gullible gives me little confidence in the collective intelligence of the human race.

Posted by: the invisible man on June 25, 2007 3:14 PM"

Good point about the stem cell research. I can't help but wonder if people against this have any friends/relatives who suffer from one of the many serious afflictions that could potentially be cured by this branch of medical research. I would imagine not.

As for scams in general, apparently $4 million has been sent to the the Nigerian Royal family by potential heirs living in Queensland. So there really are alot of gullible people out there.

I sympathise with you Simon - I can understand that the search for relief from chronic sickness/pain would drive anybody to try almost anything to be free of it, no matter how small the probability. I also hope all goes well for you and yours.

Posted by: the_outsider on June 26, 2007 1:07 PM

Posted by: righteous on June 26, 2007 6:57 AM

Lotus is right. Some herbs do have proven medicinal properties and are the source of modern medicines. If a GP is recommending them, perhaps you could be shown some of the science on the herb in question by the GP.

I agree with you entirely, some herbal stuff is proven to work - look at the world's first "wonder drug" - Aspirin (from the bark of Willow trees). Trust me - it's no fad, this stuff works, otherwise it wouldn't sell nearly as much as it does, even after 100+ years. Speaking from personal experience, rare is the hangover which isn't gotten rid of with three aspirins and half an hour's sleep.

You cannot truly be an inner city leftie elite member of the chattering classes if you don't conform to the stereotype of drinking lattes or chardonnay.

Ugh... the think I'll stick to being an anachronistic old-school, fat, yobbish, ranting, beer-swilling Marxist then, thanks all the same. I can't stand coffee or w(h)ine, as those other Lefties are reputed to do.

Posted by: Sten on June 26, 2007 1:13 PM

Is there any substantial difference between empirical and anecdotal evidence? * Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:55 PM

I, for one, would take the word of an entire empire over over any old Joe's short account of an incident.

Posted by: random luser on June 26, 2007 1:15 PM

'Is there any substantial difference between empirical and anecdotal evidence?'

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:55 PM

Is there a substantial difference between curious, incredulous and disingenuous?

Posted by: righteous on June 26, 2007 1:21 PM

In the same post that you destroy the rubbish claims about a small berry you link to a Paul Sheehan link. Anyone remember Miracle Water? Straight from the taps of Taren Point?

Posted by: Jj on June 26, 2007 1:28 PM

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:55 PM

If you are into expensive jeans does that you more of a Calvin Kleinist?

Anyway - loved the story about "the secret" a few weeks back - the dentist (she is actually my dentist but that has no part of the story - just like each story to have some "me" in it) who was listening to a CD of "The Secret" in her BMW in Clovelly one night, whilst hearing the benefits of positive thinking etc a few little hooded guys bumped her rear end, when she got out they ripped off her BMW. Maybe they had "The Secret 2" playing and out positive thought her - or maybe a Smith & Wesson beats The Secret. Dunno, don't care, zzzzzzzzzz

Posted by: BadSax on June 26, 2007 1:30 PM

Is there any substantial difference between empirical and anecdotal evidence?

* Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:55 PM

Only a lot.

You have posted this question so obviously have access to the internet. Hence you could have gone to Google and typed in 'define:empirical' and then 'define:anecdotal'. Or even picked up a paper dictionary and looked it up. So, you either (a) haven't bothered (in which case I'm not doing it for you, go Google it for yourself before curiosity kills the Calvin)) or (b) you have and didn't understand it (in which case there is no help for you) or (c)it is a rhetorical question that you think means something or is funny or somesuch(in which case,see (b)).

Posted by: harlequin on June 26, 2007 2:00 PM

Given they seemingly have no use for it themselves, why do bees bother producing honey?

Posted by: Curious Calvin on June 26, 2007 12:33 PM

They use it as a food source during shortages and inclement weather. The purpose of converting nectar into honey is twofold: a) to make it easier to store and b) to prevent it from fermenting, which would otherwise produce alcohol levels lethal to bees.

This reminds me of another superfood to avoid at all cost: Royal Jelly.
People feeding this stuff to their kids should be aware that it has no proven beneficial effects and can contain spores, which may cause serious respiratory problems.
Several kids have reportedly died after ingestion of this wonderful product.
Avoid.

Posted by: Warhorse on June 26, 2007 2:05 PM

Monica, I think it's juniper berries in gin, but you are spot on as to its miraculous powers. Especially when poured ice cold into a martini glass that has been lightly rinsed in a film of vermouth. See you at the Bayswater Brasserie, for "the finest straight up martini in town..." (Frank Moorhouse--'The Martini')

Posted by: Nicky on June 26, 2007 2:12 PM

Heres one for you Jack, a woman who cured a 'football' sized stomach cancer in 6 weeks, with nothing else but positive thinking.

Even if it is a true story, should she be encouraging others not to undertake treatment?

Posted by: steve on June 26, 2007 2:21 PM

Dear Miss E. R. Able,

"'If you will it, it is no dream.' - Theodore Herzl" - Walter Sobchak

Posted by: Miss Quote on June 26, 2007 4:44 PM

Posted by: Sten on June 26, 2007 1:13 PM

Well at the very least I hope you are going to wear a battered seaman's cap, a stained and ill-fitting pair of jeans and an old sportscoat over a skivvy that needs washing.

Posted by: J9 on June 25, 2007 5:41 PM

I think you should organise a TDT blogmeet where we can test the efficacy of marijuana for pain relief, after a long session of trying Monica and Nicky's juniper berry health remedy or Sten's more direct Marxist beer swilling method.

Posted by: righteous on June 26, 2007 5:08 PM

Posted by: righteous on June 26, 2007 5:08 PM

You must be careful of publicising such events, if the law enforcement agency gets a whiff of such activity, we're done for..!

Posted by: J9 on June 26, 2007 6:23 PM

like magic water ... amazing how many seemingly intelligent people got into that one

Hey Badsax, if she was your dentist, how come they showed her face on television?

Posted by: notwithoutmymonkey on June 26, 2007 8:46 PM

I take it your penis grew larger also. - Jack

Yes, but I didn't need the help of the goji berry for that. As a matter of fact, It grows daily..then shrinks, then grows, then shrinks, then .....well, you get the picture.

Now where did my sock draw go... oh yes, now I remember!

Posted by: GeraldineW on June 26, 2007 10:08 PM

10.14 pm.How goes it!? I find it very strange indeed that the Delly Lamber,hasnt as yet found his way here unless I just didnt read it!? I just stopped being on a LiveLeak.com,and saw this Penis ceremony,and topical as it is,a young girl rubbing a penis. A blog subject Jack!?..Its dated June 16th,sorry about the punctuation,its been a long day and now I am in a hurry.

Posted by: philiptravers on June 26, 2007 10:25 PM

Posted by: J9 on June 26, 2007 6:23 PM

I'm sure the fuzz would let us try a little weed in the interests of medical research, man.

Posted by: righteous on June 26, 2007 10:38 PM

"Goji the superfruit" sounds like a Japanese anime cartoon.

Posted by: SC on June 27, 2007 8:54 AM

Channel Ten news ran a story on the goji berry last night.
I think the sales of these 'magic berries' will explode in WA now because the report was a gushing regurgitation of the shyster's literature.

Fools and their money are easily parted and anyone with the cash to spend on untested berries for health reasons are probably going to hand it over to alleged Nigerian princes as well.

It's the middle class, Toorak tractor driving, left wing, hand wringing, politically correct mob of idiots that fall for this crap.
These same people claim to be educated (and looking at university records it would appear these claims are founded) but is a Bachelor of Arts degree really an education?
Obviously there's a crucial element missing in education if people are so willing to throw money at hocus pocus remedies and cults.
I despair sometimes, people on the whole are idiots.

Posted by: MightyJules on June 27, 2007 10:18 AM

Jess, I had to respond to your defence of naturopathy.
I understand you would defend it because it is your bread and butter, but naturopathy is another shyster occupation.
It is an irresponsible faux-science and it should be law for naturopaths to state in writing on all their prescriptions whether the ingredients they use in their potions have ever been scientifically analysed and tested for efficacy.

Scientific analysis is not to be confused with anecdotal evidence from hill tribes in the mysterious far east.
Why do people trust natural remedies that were being used in regions and in times when mortality rates were astronomically high?
Doesn't this set the alarm bells ringing and suggest that there are better alternatives, such as medicine?
A good diet, excercise and moderate partying will get you through life and you don't need to pay a naturopath $75 or buy a 200 gram pack of dried berries to find that out.

Posted by: MightyJules on June 27, 2007 11:24 AM

The MightyJules types are everywhere,but,with the number of recalls of drugs,constantly going on,here and overseas,one would think that maybe science isnt science,but Corporate.I guess the all knowing analysis of Jules would know this,and, I guess he is one of those people who like seeing money go into the pockets of people like Rumsfeld as shareholder.

Posted by: philiptravers on June 27, 2007 12:05 PM

philliptravers,
Their is corporate and there is science, the twain only meet at the business table.
Drug recalls are all well and good but it's not the science that is flawed, it's the corporate world's rush to get it out there and in people's bathroom cabinets.

The science behind it is fine. Science is the purest truth because it is not and can never be tainted by belief, economics or the incoherant ramblings of a postmodernist.

Posted by: MightyJules on June 27, 2007 1:34 PM

Holy shit philiptravers, your posts are getting more articulate now you've discovered the power of punctuation. Congrats (and I'm not having a go at you, honest). I fully concur with your last post.

Posted by: Di R on June 27, 2007 2:37 PM

you poor mislead fools!! i take goji everyday, i have never felt better!! i dont get sick anymore, i have more energy, and some of my medical problems are dissapearing!!
i dont push the product onto anyone, all i do is suggest it to people who tell me that they have health problems. i keep in regular contact with these people and the ones that are taking the "real" goji juice have seen marked differences in their health. try it for a month and then tell me it doesnt make you feel better. and no it isnt a miracle cure for anything, but it does go a long way towards the treatment of alot of ailments............

You, sir, are the happy beneficiary of what's known as the "placebo effect". Either that or you're full of it. - Jack

Posted by: jarrod howard on July 11, 2007 8:16 PM

I got 500g pack of dried 'Goji' (wolfberry) from M'sia which just cost me RM12 (AUD$3)! What is the miracle? I used it in soup, and congee. So I can live through 300years old?

Posted by: J Chong on July 17, 2007 10:19 AM

I done research before taken product and I have a relative whom had severe arthritis and unable to move fingers and in severe pain. Now after 3 months of taking 4ounces in the morning and night pain free and now can move fingers. Another family member had severe pain from having plate in neck and now no pain. First thing that most notice as I did in the first week was sleeping was so much better. Another person had severe IBS for 30 years and nothing helped til this was tried. Everyone's body is different and some take good to such and others don't but this doesn't mean the product's not good for another each human saved from pain is a good thing. Each person has a gift or a good thing in them.
People can have hope or a dream and that is their's to have. We live and learn from our mistakes.

Your reading this don't give up on what you believe in. Speech is freedom. We'd all love a cure but nobody can take away our hope.

Posted by: TW on July 26, 2007 2:22 AM

Yeah. At least we know Homoeopathy works.

Posted by: fritz rubenbaum on July 26, 2007 10:31 PM

I was in a health food store today, looking at Goji berries. There was a brand there called Navitas Goji berries. They were extremely expensive, about $35.00 for a pound!!

I looked at the back of the bag, and they had the berry nutrition information listed. The numbers were way too high. I compared them to another brand, and it appears that Navitas has inflated the nutrition information!

Its one thing that salespeople are selling over-hyped berries to health food customers. But when they appear to be falsifying nutrition labels, and marketing unproven and false claims to people who are sick with cancer, then its time to notify the FTC and FDA.

They even say on their website that they use Goji berries from China, and don't call them "Lycium eleganus" there, but they do call them that fake name on Amazon.com
They also say on Amazon that it gives 45% of the RDA for Vitamin A, but on the package it said 180% for the same size serving, and all the other numbers were falsely inflated as well.

That is an outright falsehood.
What the heck is going on here? On their own website, they hint that Tibetan Goji berries might be a marketing fraud, and that their berries come from China. But their own products say they are Tibetan Goji berries, and some of the exact same products are carrying false and inflated nutrition labels!
There oughta be a law...and there is a law. Is that why they own website is whitewashed and so different from the actual product listings and package?

If you have time to look into this, and add it to your story, I think that might be important for the consumer. It appears people are being outright scammed, and many of those people have serious illnesses like cancer, and they are being consciously lied to, deceived and exploited, by some utterly ruthless and dishonest people.

Something is rotten to the core with these Goji berries, right from the people at the top who thought it up in the first place....its a crooked racket, taking advantage of desperate people with serious illnesses. There needs to be a serious investigation by the authorities, about all of the false claims being made, and the false labelling and deceptive marketing.

Posted by: gp on August 4, 2007 9:13 AM

My partner is dedicated to Goji Juice and claims that it has remidied his insomnia and work-related joint pain. Each morning he has a small glass of Goji juice and is oblivious to the fact that each morning i top the bottle up with cranberry juice - a much cheaper alternative. The mind is a very powerful thing!