"Doing more exercise with less intensity,"
Arthur Jones believes, "has all but
destroyed the actual great value
of weight training. Something
must be done . . . and quickly."
The New Bodybuilding for
Old-School Results supplies
MUCH of that "something."

This is one of 93 photos of Andy McCutcheon that are used in The New High-Intensity Training to illustrate the recommended exercises.

Something has been on my mind about this thread and my own personal weight loss goals. I'm wanting to loss alot of weight, about a third of my current weight or 100 pounds. At some point, I'm going to start losing muscle along with fat. I really don't think I can get my BF% down past 15%. I would be thrilled, but genetically (Northern European) I don't think its realistic.

Along with muscle, strenth is going to suffer and drop also. How will I know its the loss of bulk and weight, and not overtraining?

hi scott. thanks for the reply. my form is good- erect back, I look downwards a bit, actually straight forward. here I wlll scroll down to your questions.

simon-hecubus wrote:
Hey Johyn,

I'm not Dr. Darden, but let me ask you about your form. Your ache may come from excessive arch of forward leaning during the exercise.

Where does the bar sit on your back?
(How high or low?)BAR SITS HIGH- I AM ATTENTIVE TO WHETHER I AM LEANING FORWARD OF BACKWARD.

Too low will facilitate a more forward positioning (abgle) of your torso and more back stress.

Where do you "look" while squatting? CENTER OF MY BODY IN THE MIRROR.

Some sources tell people to look at the junction of wall and ceiling during squats. I believe this is way too high and will cause excessive arch of the back.

The better position is straight ahead or even slightly downward to avoid 'pinching' the back. SO I DO NOT THINK I AM PICHING THE BACK BUT IN SOME WAY, COMPRESSING THE VERTEBRAE -BUT- I USE LIGHT WEIGHT.

How deep do you go? THIS MAY BE PART OF IT. I GO FAR DOWN. How is your body proportioned? Do you have long legs or a long torso? LONG LEGS. LONG BODY.

I have a long torso and found that going to parallel is plenty for me. Any lower and I wind up with pinched back issues too. THANKS FOR THAT INFO.

Also, avoid excessive acceleration out of the bottom position, as your legs may push beyond the stabilizing capacity of your back. Keep it slow and smooth. I DO NOT ACCELERATE AT ALL. I MOVE SLOW AND DELIBERATE.

Jer Bear wrote:
Something has been on my mind about this thread and my own personal weight loss goals. I'm wanting to loss alot of weight, about a third of my current weight or 100 pounds. At some point, I'm going to start losing muscle along with fat. I really don't think I can get my BF% down past 15%. I would be thrilled, but genetically (Northern European) I don't think its realistic.

Along with muscle, strenth is going to suffer and drop also. How will I know its the loss of bulk and weight, and not overtraining?

Jerry

Hi mate
Although I lost 56lbs (224lbs to 168lbs) following Dr D's guidelines (nutrition and training)I did lose some lean tissue and strength. I was also met with frequent comments how thin, gaunt, skinny, etc, I was. No one said I looked athletic, or like Floyd Mayweather. Truth is, despite such loss I still had little abdominal definition and still was at the 15-16% bodyfat mark - and the thought of having to shed another 10-14lbs to achieve that seemed very unrealistic for me.
I now believe that losing fat while gaining mass is simply incompatible (for most people, most of the time -although see below). At best sustaining lean muscle while losing fat is about as much as one can achieve.
I personally ground to a complete halt in relation to my body composition goals, as well as progress in the gym. Why I then persisted in this state for 12 MONTHS is beyond me, however I did. I use to reason that I dreaded training because my body knew the HIT punishment that awaited (bull).
The change arrived late November 2007, when I made the switch to low carb diet, invested in a few low budget nutritional supplements, and made a few training modifications (mainly added a second set to failure). In that time my bodyweight has stayed consistent, however my strength has increased (as has my appetite for the gym)my bodyfat has decreased to 12% - and for the first time in 36 years of life my abs are begining to show.
There is still work to be done but obviously I am pleased with my results so far, especially given the wall I'd been banging my head against for a year.
My conclusion is that a high carb diet is NOW not for me for a variety of reasons but the main one here being fat gain, or at least the inability to progress beyond a certain set point.
While I would never deter you from using Dr D's guidelines in your efforts to shift 100lbs (a lot of weight!)I now wonder what would have happened if I'd made the switch a year ago?
Good luck - and apologies for the long post.

johyn wrote:
hi scott. thanks for the reply. my form is good- erect back, I look downwards a bit, actually straight forward. here I wlll scroll down to your questions.

simon-hecubus wrote:
Hey Johyn,

I'm not Dr. Darden, but let me ask you about your form. Your ache may come from excessive arch of forward leaning during the exercise.

Where does the bar sit on your back?
(How high or low?)BAR SITS HIGH- I AM ATTENTIVE TO WHETHER I AM LEANING FORWARD OF BACKWARD.

Too low will facilitate a more forward positioning (abgle) of your torso and more back stress.

Where do you "look" while squatting? CENTER OF MY BODY IN THE MIRROR.

Some sources tell people to look at the junction of wall and ceiling during squats. I believe this is way too high and will cause excessive arch of the back.

The better position is straight ahead or even slightly downward to avoid 'pinching' the back. SO I DO NOT THINK I AM PICHING THE BACK BUT IN SOME WAY, COMPRESSING THE VERTEBRAE -BUT- I USE LIGHT WEIGHT.

How deep do you go? THIS MAY BE PART OF IT. I GO FAR DOWN. How is your body proportioned? Do you have long legs or a long torso? LONG LEGS. LONG BODY.

I have a long torso and found that going to parallel is plenty for me. Any lower and I wind up with pinched back issues too. THANKS FOR THAT INFO.

Also, avoid excessive acceleration out of the bottom position, as your legs may push beyond the stabilizing capacity of your back. Keep it slow and smooth. I DO NOT ACCELERATE AT ALL. I MOVE SLOW AND DELIBERATE.

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Scott
THANKS AGAIN SCOTT

Do not shorten the range of motion, always go deep on squats. Your back may ache because squats are a very good lower back exercise, and if your lower back is not as strong, then squatting will strengthen it, just keep working at it, if necessary decrease the weight and then work back up to your current weight to strengthen your back. Look in front or slightly above during your squats, don't look down as this will round your back.

Remember if you want half leg development do half squats, full leg development do full squats.

If you are unable to perform full squats due to an injury from sports, poor training, etc, that is acceptable. A lot of these people would benefit from training themselves to be able to perform a full squat.

If your only making excuses up then that is just plain lazy. A lot of people should be full squatting, as it will reduce injuries and improve mobility, but do not because of poor flexibility or lack of strength.

If a person who is relatively healthy and can not do a full squat, then this person needs to work on flexibility and strength.

Almost everyone, with some possible exceptions, can be trained to perform a full squat.

Thanks for the reply. Sometimes our bodies need "shocked" from time to time to get to the next level. Thanks for the info and encouragement.

But I was just wondering, I really do not think I'll be able to deadlift, bench, or squat the same amount of weight when I'm 200ish compared to my 290ish right now. That just seems to be a nature fact. Not "knocking it", I was just wondering when does an average Joe wanting to lose weight on this program start to lose his/her strength and mass. I'm willing to lose some to get down to where I need to be.

A follow up to my previous posting on when to drop down to twice a week.....I forgot to mention that I switched over from the HAMMER STRENGTH DUO SQAUT HIGH PULL to the V-SQUAT. Seems the V-SQUAT is a little more intense on the legs.

So I dropped my weight and was able to complete my leg routine in the number of reps that I wanted. I'm following the weight loss program from Drew Baye and Dr Darden. I'm doing Baye's A-B routine three times a week and didn't want to drop down to twice while trying to lose weight.

Jer Bear wrote:
I'm doing Baye's A-B routine three times a week and didn't want to drop down to twice while trying to lose weight.

Jerry

It's such a fine balance. When you cut calories - especially drastically, e.g. 1500-1900 a day - then it becomes much easier to tire, become run down and, of course, overtrain, especially if you're trying to do your 20-rep squats 2-3 times a week.

It stands to reason that if this happens there is no way you are going to be able to push weights to your optimum level and your poundages WILL suffer. Yet at the same time you want to train as much as possible, e.g. 3 times a week, and at as high an intensity as possible for maximum energy output. The result, in my experience, is a kind of stalemate.

Weight will come off (which is good) but poundages remain constant with perhaps some fluctuation exercise to exercise (mostly negative). I think the only HIT author I have ever read actually agreeing with this rather pessimistic account is Stuart McRobert, who believes dedicated long-term weight loss programmes involve keeping what muscle you have as the best-case scenario (this version isn't likely to sell many books after all.

The only alternative, in my opinion, is to subscribe to a system which promotes fat-burning and protein preservation. And, as stated in an earlier post, the low carb plan is that option.

As an aside, and I'm sure this would be wildly debated on this forum, arguably the leading figure on low carb bodybuilding nutrition Dr Mauro DiPasquale, maintains high carb weight loss plans result, on average, in weight losses comprising 60% fat and 40% lean tissue.

Now consider such high carb plans which claim 3.5 to 5 or more lbs a week weightloss. Can this be consistently maintained to be fat and water? I seriously doubt it, especially if your poundages in the gym are static/decreasing. It all points to lean tissue loss.

I'm sure if you started a thread on the forum who would get a good response to your dilemma.

I completely agree with this. With high carbs i just can't get the fat to rip off not weight but fat. I never look forward to eating carbs because whole grain breads and oatmeal or what not isnt exciting. If i coul;d eat my carbs from say donuts, cookies, well then i would love a high carb diet.

Im having the best success of my life from a higher protien and fat diet and adding in a high carb day every 3rd or 4th day. THis seems to work the best.

Also with the lifting portion. I still dont do cardio because i would rather eat less but i do do more then one set. I like the feeling of being sore in the morning and with one set i never felt it.

Good luck to you and im in the same boat as you. Give me some veggies, fruits,eggs, and meats and im good to go with fat loss and energy levels.

stevecollins33 wrote:
Jer Bear wrote:
Something has been on my mind about this thread and my own personal weight loss goals. I'm wanting to loss alot of weight, about a third of my current weight or 100 pounds. At some point, I'm going to start losing muscle along with fat. I really don't think I can get my BF% down past 15%. I would be thrilled, but genetically (Northern European) I don't think its realistic.

Along with muscle, strenth is going to suffer and drop also. How will I know its the loss of bulk and weight, and not overtraining?

Jerry

Hi mate
Although I lost 56lbs (224lbs to 168lbs) following Dr D's guidelines (nutrition and training)I did lose some lean tissue and strength. I was also met with frequent comments how thin, gaunt, skinny, etc, I was. No one said I looked athletic, or like Floyd Mayweather. Truth is, despite such loss I still had little abdominal definition and still was at the 15-16% bodyfat mark - and the thought of having to shed another 10-14lbs to achieve that seemed very unrealistic for me.
I now believe that losing fat while gaining mass is simply incompatible (for most people, most of the time -although see below). At best sustaining lean muscle while losing fat is about as much as one can achieve.
I personally ground to a complete halt in relation to my body composition goals, as well as progress in the gym. Why I then persisted in this state for 12 MONTHS is beyond me, however I did. I use to reason that I dreaded training because my body knew the HIT punishment that awaited (bull).
The change arrived late November 2007, when I made the switch to low carb diet, invested in a few low budget nutritional supplements, and made a few training modifications (mainly added a second set to failure). In that time my bodyweight has stayed consistent, however my strength has increased (as has my appetite for the gym)my bodyfat has decreased to 12% - and for the first time in 36 years of life my abs are begining to show.
There is still work to be done but obviously I am pleased with my results so far, especially given the wall I'd been banging my head against for a year.
My conclusion is that a high carb diet is NOW not for me for a variety of reasons but the main one here being fat gain, or at least the inability to progress beyond a certain set point.
While I would never deter you from using Dr D's guidelines in your efforts to shift 100lbs (a lot of weight!)I now wonder what would have happened if I'd made the switch a year ago?
Good luck - and apologies for the long post.

Jeff update'
Hi all! -interesting posts as of late. Just wanted to update on my progress with dr. darden. I lost 2 lbs this week so am down a total of 11 lbs.
What is interesting is that I seem to be leaner at 199lbs than I have been before. The only thing I can think this to be is the extra workout per week that I am doing. Maybe I am retaining a little more lean tissue this time than anytime before do to the extra demand for the muscle. what do you think Dr. Darden? Also wondering if you have my waist measurments? I would like to compare. My waist is down I know because things that were tight are not now. I have not lost any strength and doubt, in fact I am slightly stronger. The loss is slow but steady. I hope to be down by 25 lbs the first week of March.
Jeff

Hi all,
Interesting posts coming through . I wanted to update my progress through the thread. I am now down 11 lbs. I lost 2 lbs. this week.
The real interesting part to this is I seem to be leaner at 199lbs.this time than I have been before. The only thing I can attribute this to is the extra workout Dr Darden has me doing. even though it is only an extra 12-13 minutes of hard strength training I seem to be retaining more lean tissue.I have not lost any strength either. That is a real plus. My waist is smaller too, as my tight clothes are now loose. What do you think Dr. Darden ,it seems that I am keeping or adding some lean? Also do you still have my waist measurments? I would like to compare.

The fat seems to be coming off at a rate of 1 1/2 to 2lbs.a week now. I should be on track for 25lbs off by the first week of March. Jeff

s153015 wrote:
This thread started on Dec. 10, is that the date that Jeff started shooting for this goal?

Congratulations on your progress, Jeff and all the best as you close in on all your goals!

Rick

He Rick,
Thanks! The thread started before I did. I was down on vacation in Florida and seeing Dr. Darden. After I got back, I started on Dec. 17th 2007. The first week went well but then came the holidays.

I am on goal and should end up reaching it. It has been just over a month and I should lose around 2 lbs. a week. Just need to keep strict. Thanks again, Jeff

admnautilus wrote:
s153015 wrote:
This thread started on Dec. 10, is that the date that Jeff started shooting for this goal?

Congratulations on your progress, Jeff and all the best as you close in on all your goals!

Rick

He Rick,
Thanks! The thread started before I did. I was down on vacation in Florida and seeing Dr. Darden. After I got back, I started on Dec. 17th 2007. The first week went well but then came the holidays.

I am on goal and should end up reaching it. It has been just over a month and I should lose around 2 lbs. a week. Just need to keep strict. Thanks again, Jeff

OK, so you are down 11 pounds in 35 days, that's over 2 pounds per week! (pretty darn good, considering you went through the holidays)... this morning I was down 7.5 pounds in 19 days...which is probably pretty close to where you were at as well at that point, since we have to factor that early water loss, that usually contributes to the "10 day quick start"....

I know comparing is meaningless, in any scientific sense, or indicating who is doing what right, because we are very different, (your photos show you are carrying a lot more muscle than I probably ever will) but I always find a little friendly competition keeps me motivated. We are both within a year in age.

s153015 wrote:
admnautilus wrote:
s153015 wrote:
This thread started on Dec. 10, is that the date that Jeff started shooting for this goal?

Congratulations on your progress, Jeff and all the best as you close in on all your goals!

Rick

He Rick,
Thanks! The thread started before I did. I was down on vacation in Florida and seeing Dr. Darden. After I got back, I started on Dec. 17th 2007. The first week went well but then came the holidays.

I am on goal and should end up reaching it. It has been just over a month and I should lose around 2 lbs. a week. Just need to keep strict. Thanks again, Jeff

OK, so you are down 11 pounds in 35 days, that's over 2 pounds per week! (pretty darn good, considering you went through the holidays)... this morning I was down 7.5 pounds in 19 days...which is probably pretty close to where you were at as well at that point, since we have to factor that early water loss, that usually contributes to the "10 day quick start"....

I know comparing is meaningless, in any scientific sense, or indicating who is doing what right, because we are very different, (your photos show you are carrying a lot more muscle than I probably ever will) but I always find a little friendly competition keeps me motivated. We are both within a year in age.

Rick

Good Job, Rick!!
You know a little competition never hurt anyone. It keeps things fun and helps us both stay on course.
Reading your thread it looks like you are on target. My hardest time to diet( like 90% of everyone) is at night. I am trying to stay busier at night. going out visiting people etc.

Here are some things that help me. I am drinking lots of ice water. This not only helps me feel fuller through the day but also burns extra calories. Dr. Darden suggest to also stay cool. At the training studios we keep it 64 degrees, which when drinking cold water makes me stay pretty cool. I think this is helping me to eek out that extra loss.

It will be interesting over the next couple of weeks, as I tend to stay static in loss for a week or so about now. I am staying strict on the diet and all the other basics, so now might be a good time to add the after dinner walk. What do you think Ell?
Jeff

I'm ok at night... for dieting... I think the biggest thing I could do to improve is getting 8 hours at night, which I find a struggle... what is your average sleep per night?.... as for staying cool, it's 19 degress below zero here this morning, which is up 6 degrees from yesterday... I drink lots of water, but actually it is just from the tap as I don't enjoy drinking ice water, but maybe I'll try it. All the best!

I'm ok at night... for dieting... I think the biggest thing I could do to improve is getting 8 hours at night, which I find a struggle... what is your average sleep per night?.... as for staying cool, it's 19 degress below zero here this morning, which is up 6 degrees from yesterday... I drink lots of water, but actually it is just from the tap as I don't enjoy drinking ice water, but maybe I'll try it. All the best!

Rick

Rick,
Yes, this is tough for me also. Dr. Darden wants me to go to bed an hour ealier than I had been. Most nights I only get 5 hours, somtimes less. I know this is not helping. I am trying though to get to bed earlier.
Jeff

I'm ok at night... for dieting... I think the biggest thing I could do to improve is getting 8 hours at night, which I find a struggle... what is your average sleep per night?.... as for staying cool, it's 19 degress below zero here this morning, which is up 6 degrees from yesterday... I drink lots of water, but actually it is just from the tap as I don't enjoy drinking ice water, but maybe I'll try it. All the best!

Rick

Rick,
Yes, this is tough for me also. Dr. Darden wants me to go to bed an hour ealier than I had been. Most nights I only get 5 hours, somtimes less. I know this is not helping. I am trying though to get to bed earlier.
Jeff

How do you feel on this diet? Eating 1500kcal a day is hard if your used to eating a lot more, how many calories were you eating before starting the diet?

Dr. Darden,
I know this is a little off topic from this thread but I am going to ask anyways.

I'm new to HIT (doing it for 2 months now) and everything has been going well until recently. I have not been really progressing with my flat bench and been stuck at the same weight and reps for going on almost three weeks. Before then it was going well and I added 25 pounds in the 2 months. All of my other exercises have been either increasing in reps or weights on a consistent basis.

I am using the beginner HIT routine # 3. Any suggestions to break out of this rut with my bench? I'm new to HIT but have been working out for many years consistently(15). For some history, my bench has always been the hardest to improve.

I have cut my workouts to 2 times a week because of reducing my calories, work, and coaching a girls fastpicth softball travel team and a recreation team.