Providing perspective on the economics and politics of sports business in Florida...and the Rays' campaign for a new stadium in Tampa Bay.

Sunday, June 21, 2015

Stu Sternberg's Very Unproductive Ultimatum Five Years Ago Today

Stu Sternberg says he doesn't like to talk about the Stadium Saga during the season...but that wasn't always the case.

Five years ago today, Sternberg delivered his ultimatum to St. Petersburg, basically saying "let us look for new stadium sites in Hillsborough County, or we won't look at new stadium sites anywhere at all here."

Five years later, the team still hasn't (publicly) looked at new stadium sites, even though several have been offered and the team insists Tropicana Field is not an adequate home for the 13 more seasons remaining on the contract.

I've always said Hillsborough doesn't have the money to make a new stadium work on the Rays' (publicly-funded) terms...but it offers significant leverage to the team in order to get a possible new stadium in the Mid-Pinellas region, closer to the bay bridges.

Thanks for sharing that document.... yes, Corderre would have shared something like that with Manfred (but in English) - he wouldn't have been given the time time of day by Manfred for a meeting if he didn't have something concrete - especially not after Manfred publicly stated in previously that although Montreal would be a great market, a PLAN for a baseball stadium will be required before any return is discussed. This document is the foundation of that plan....

Exactly. The Ownership and Stadium plans already put Montreal above any other would-be city that people like to bring up like Charlotte, Vegas or Portland. In the meantime, the Rays are in first place and have lower attendance than ever. Owners rarely put up money for new stadiums, so why would Sternberg if nobody comes anyway? Its shame because I have really enjoyed watching this team for the last several years, but I find it harder to imagine a scenario that works out for them and the Tampa Bay region.

Unfortunately, for the people of Montreal, they won't be getting a MLB team anytime soon. Have you seen the renderings for a baseball complex in Las Vegas? Very impressive. Unfortunately, there is a difference between reality and renderings of a dream.

Investors expect return on investment, and building stadiums seldom does that. MLB makes its money when the public builds stadiums for it, so assuming Montreal wants a team....it needs public money, not just private money.

The stadium financing is really no concern to MLB - and in the case for Canadian sporting venues, (Qc hockey arena notwithstanding) it's rare for the government to pay for construction.. what they will do is help with the land, tax abatements, infrastructure and possibly help issue bonds. That was the contribution the last time and it was fine by MLB - what they lacked was private seed money for the stadium bc Loria lied.

"it's rare for the government to pay for construction.. what they will do is help with the land, tax abatements, infrastructure and possibly help issue bonds."

I will just re-post your quote here, and let you look closer to spot the inconsistency. We have to assume that you are aware that bond issuance to support a stadium is the primary way governments help pay for construction of new stadiums. In which case, your comment must just be trolling.

And getting handed stadiums worth 700M to 1.4B is "really no concern to MLB"? Lol, wut. The entire cartel depends on it.

It was in Quebec City, where they are set to open their new hockey arena, designed to bring the Nordiques back. Assuming the Rays can look outside St Pete for a new park, has a stadium financing plan ever been outlined? Or are they looking to tap into the bed tax like every other team in the State?

The Rays are not even there (looking at financing) yet. That have something in mind for sure but they need be able to publicly talk about a new stadium which is not the case right now.

UA prohibit talking to any parties outside of St-Pete. That's what the MOU is for, to let the Rays at least be able to start talking to other parties.

That's my understanding.

Behind the scene, it is clear that Sternberg is at least listening to others about what are the possibilities/offers. Montreal is one group that such listening meeting occurs in the past and will continue to occur in the future. Sternberg is also talking to Manfred regularly about the situation considering this is an important topic (as well as Oakland) for the MLB.

Regarding the Quebec city new arena (without a NHL team), let's make sure the financing story is clear.

Quebec city does not have a decent place for show, events, ... Old Colisé was not an option, cost of renovation was too high to update the building. So provincial government and city council decided to fund the new arena with $13M coming from a private group that want to have the Nordiques return (NHL team).

The building main goal is to attract a new NHL team but on the other hand, the city do need a new facility for other events (boxing, show, ...). So it will be used day one for Junior hockey games, events, ...

Montreal got their Symphonic Orchestra House all funded by the government a while ago and during the debate for the Quebec city arena financing, it was clear that without public money, such facility will not be able to be financed by private sector, Quebec city does not have the concentration of large enterprises, it's mainly a city where most people are working for the government.

The good news for us (tax payer) is that the budget was respected and the project was also very well managed.

Humm ... don't underestimate what is going on in Montreal Noah by putting all those cities in the same basket with generic arguments like this one. Manfred was clear, US cities are not considered at this point. Maybe later, but not for now.

Regarding the leverage-play, I fully agree. Montreal knows that they need to play (or being part of) that game in order to get a team one day. That day is maybe sonner than what some thinks but Montreal Baseball Project is working hard behind the scene.

The goal is to have all the pieces (final business plan, stadium plan and public/private funding, investors with private funding for a team, formal commitment to MLB, ...) within the next 12-18 months. Some parts are done, some are on their way, and this is why another meeting between Coderre and Manfred is planned very soon.

In the meantime, private meetings are happening (or are about to happen) between MLB owners and Mayor Coderre, Montreal Baseball Project and private investors.

They haven't because they don't have the desire and/or resources to land MLB. Montreal probably does...but the commissioners agreeing to meet with Coderre doesn't mean anything about the city's chances.

Sometimes, such meeting between Coderre and Manfred is not just for showing the other teams or owners that Montreal is serious.

In this specific situation, it consolidated the investors group in Montreal. Important investors that were silent so far called Montreal Baseball Project the day after the meeting to see how they can contribute financialy.

More investors are lining-up in Montreal to participate and the business community is behind the project. So the next questions is: How much time it will take to sell as many season tickets in Montreal as they have right now in St-Pete? I've been told minutes. Then, how much additional time it will take to double the number of season tickets?

Then Noah, stop with the nonsense that they could but they didn't bc of ABC.... No, they haven't because they have no desire, no resources etc... ergo, not suitable.

Right now, Montreal is MLBs only real alternative to the Rays problems for leverage... In negotiations as you well know, you need viable leverage and Montreal is that viable leverage. But also, in negotiations MLB needs to be able to walk away from talks and essentially hold true to their threats on St Pete....

And no, Portland, Charlotte, Vegas are not viable threats for MLB at this time...

To Anon2 - you are right, there are public and private meetings that are happening between MLB and Montreal and will continue to happen for the next few years....

Lol, it would be nice if Montreal were to obtain a team but that won't happen anytime soon. There is talk that there may be resources to do so, but it will not happen. Not in the next 40 years at least.

Forty years huh? Not sure what you are smoking or why you think it'll take that long - my guess is either the Rays will move up there within the next 5 years or there'll be an expansion team placed up there within the next 10 - but definitely not 40 years.

The Rays won't be leaving the Tampa area and the Montreal area won't be getting a team. Not sure what you are smoking or tripping on, maybe it's your mom's tampons that are jammed up your ass and their contributing to your delusional rants.

Feels like its been 40 years since this whole stadium situation started. Seriously though, nobody is willing to pay for a new stadium in Tampa Bay, even if the Rays were allowed to look outside St Pete, so how is this going to get resolved?

Make a good settlement offer and you can have this distressed asset tomorrow. We will take a percentage of the rosy economic impact the Rays pretend to provide. How about 80% of the impact the Rays would have had between now and the 2027 end of the contract. Calculate the present discount value of 12 years of baseball "economic impact". Have your group write a check. Go ahead and get Felipe Alou signed up to manage. Start building your new dome. Two conditions: the tenant is gone by March 2016 (sorry if they cant yet play in your new dome, but you'll figure it out) and the tenant gets zero re-development revenue from the Trop site. Cut the settlement check, Rays waive revenues, we hand you the keys. Everyone wins. Montreal gets its baseball. Rays get a new sugar-daddy. Tampa Bay offloads a distressed asset and does something different with its time.

French content for this specific topic (baseball return in Montreal) contains 80% of the valuable information that is usually not reported by english media (Canadian and US).

So most of the english medias are writing and talking about 20% of the valuable information rather that considering the whole story and facts.

Even on this blog, not all facts and stories are reported and considered. And I don't say it's done with a purpose or an agenda in mind.

When journalists are not sure if La Presse is a good information source, we, in Montreal are scratching our heads and understanding why intelligent people don't search a little more to have a complete overview.

In fact, this is what we are doing in Montreal. We are reading all the stories and all the facts from all the sources (no matter where they are coming from) in order to make our minds and understand the situation.

There's a lot of interest in the French media in Montreal on this topic and given that a lot of the investors are French Canadian it makes sense the french media over the english media following them and finding an angle to cover... Moral of the story - there is more than just the english media in Montreal and if you want a more informed view, both media outlets should be reviewed.....

NO'ah, you might not want to see the future with the little things that is happening through conservative eyes, but how about the special congrats from Stu via video to ole' Ken Hagan?Ken was on with JP before the night started, and he said they are already putting in place the frame work so when Pinellas gets out of the way, there ready. He said it's take about a year to get started & 2 to build. He also said either downtown Tampa or Westshore, and that the Rays need to stop being so nice to Pinellas, lol...