Friday, December 16, 2011

Photo of "Anton LaVey, Diane LaVey & Susan Atkins"

Black and White 8x10 Limited Edition Never-Before-Seen

Anton LaVey's son "Stanton", is selling this photo on his Etsy Site for $100.

﻿Description: "This incredible black & white photo taken in The Church of Satan's early days is from a series shot for one of the many men's magazines that Anton LaVey's infamous abode (aka The Black House) was featured in. This photo was one that didn't make it into any of those exposés and has until now never been seen by the public! The photo shows High Priest Anton LaVey in ritual setting with High Priestess Diane LaVey on his left and Susan Atkins, nude, to his right. This photo was taken in 1966 three years before Susan Atkins became a household name as the most violent member of the Manson Family having brutally murdered actress Sharon Tate along with her unborn child in the gruesome Helter Skelter murders of August 8th 1969. It is a little known fact that Susan Atkins was a member and publicity model for The Church of Satan before she hopped on Charles Mansons "black bus" heading for Hollywood. This photo is from the private collection of Diane LaVey and has never been seen until now! Here's your chance to own a haunting piece of Americas dark history. Professionally restored & printed by Stanton LaVey this Limited Edition B&W 8x10 can ignite flames of fascination from your family & friends!

237 comments:

Nice find L/S. There was a website with other Lavey/Sadie pics I saw a couple of years ago, but can't seem to find anymore...perhaps gone now. Sadie was present & clear in one or two pics, same series as this pic came from, i expect.

I think it was in 66 or 67 when LaVey was getting some press for recruiting suburbanites.

I have read that book, and her website and all of her parole hearing transcripts...

I totally agree she was as you said...

"Bad from the word go"

But she didn't portray herself that way later in her life...

She fought like a tiger to get out of the clink, and sometimes reading her words, and listening to her tell her story... she really does get to me a bit... she made a very sad, sympathetic older woman...

but when you look at the whole picture- you have to walk away thinking...

Can anyone make a good argument that any girl on that ranch wasn't a skank??

they way they lived, bathed, slept. the garbage they ate, and fed to children.. The dirty old men, and ex cons they let around there babies...

Strip and suck for bikers on command....

many people they say came and went from the ranch...

the girls who chose to stay and live like that...

Skank is a good enough word for me

but your right...

even if it was because they were forced by fact they had no choice..

they cleaned up and sobered up after 20, 30 years...

and sometimes no matter how evil they acted as kids/tennagers...

The old women made me feel a little sympathetic..

I honestly dont feel the same for Bobby/Bruce/Tex or even Clem

maybe that makes me a sexist pig...

but The men knew more, and they were older for the most part, and Bobby still acts cocky to this day... a guy is more capable of taking care of himself if he wants to go out on his own- where a younger girl is more likely to stay with the pack for safety...

Maybe I'm just making excuses for them but They all are paying the same so it doesn't matter- and I agree they should...

I just get more satisfaction watching Tex get denied than i did watching Sadie lying on that gurney with Brain Cancer...

She didn't look like a threat to anyone to me...

watching the victims family crying her family crying...

she didn't even know where she was..

just all around sad what happened to her in life- and sad what she helped do to make others life's miserable as well....

Here is a little excerpt from Susan Atkins "Child of Satan, child of God." I haven´t read the book myself but i found some excerpt on the web."It was a slow afternoon, and I considered my first thirty-minute routine as merely a warm-up for the wilder things to come with nightfall. I was just finishing when Mr. Garnet, the owner, walked in with a man I had not seen before. The room was quite dark but the afternoon sunlight splashed through the swinging door behind them. The man seemed to be dressed entirely in black. His face and the top of his bald head were extraordinarily pale - white. Garnet and the stranger walked toward me. "Sharon," my boss said as I reached for a wrap and moved toward the side of the stage. "Sharon, I'd like you to dance one more number." "But I've just finished, Mr. Garnet." "I know, sweetheart," he smiled, "but I'd like for you to do one more number for Mr. LaVey here. This is Mr. Anton LaVey." I smiled at the man. His gaze was a intense as any I'd ever seen, even though his mouth was smiling. His eyes seemed to be black - and glistening. "It's important, Sharon." Garnet said. "You can stretch your break a bit afterward." "Okay." I walked over to Tommy the bartender and told him to put on my favorite record. "I might as well give him the works," I mumbled to Tommy. The intensity of the stranger's black eyes deepened as he watched my movements. A smile curled about his lips. I slipped into one of my fantasies about Sharon King the dancer, the sensuous, long-legged, full-breasted movie starlet, the Broadway queen. The music penetrated the lower depths of my abdomen and up into my chest cavity. It possessed me. Garnet motioned me to the small table where he and Mr. LaVey were seated. "She is one of my best girls, Mr. LaVey. Do you think there's a part for her in your production?" "Hello, Sharon." LaVey's voice sounded as though it were in an echo chamber. "That was very good." He turned to Garnet. "Yes. Yes. She would be very good for the vampire role." "Vampire role?" I asked, silently."

Sadie said in her book that she dumped one beau because he was "normal". Yet she also said she left Anton Levay after being invited to his house where he had a lion.Susan couldn't find an equalibrium.

The biggest mistake she ever made was watching that movie about copycat murders. She took that cornball idea and brought down the house of Manson. But then, the Family was always copying what they saw on tv or heard on records. Susan was a main instigator in the crime of the century. I doubt she ever knew who she really was. Maybe there really are witches?

Katie, Susan called herself Sharon King when she was a topless dancer in San Francisco, and so LaVey also called her Sharon.She said something about in case the cops showed up, she didn't want her real name known...

Here are some more excerpts:Garnet turned to me. "You see, Sharon. Mr. LaVey has agreed to stage one of his productions here at the club - a witches' sabbath - topless and all - and I think it could be fun for you if you're interested." "What's a witches' sabbath?" I asked, looking first at Mr. Garnet and then back at the bald-headed man. LaVey threw his head back and gave a barking sort of laugh. "It's a time, my dear, when the witches worship their leader - Satan. It's a marvelous ceremony and will be very colorful for your club. It's a bit out of the ordinary." I shrugged. "It sounds it." I thought it was weird, but it might be the trick to launch my career. "Sure, if Mr. Garnet wants me in it, he's the boss." "Good. Good." LaVey rubbed his palms together. "But what about costumes and all that, Mr. Garnet?" I asked, trying to understand the thing better. "Don't you worry about those details," LaVey interrupted. "You won't need much to wear. Besides, we will be having a meeting at my house to discuss these matters. It will all work out." He turned to Garnet. "I think she will be excellent. And she will also be good for the witch in the torture scene." "Torture scene?" Again I only spoke to myself. "It's been nice meeting you, Sharon," LaVey said to me, turning to walk away. "I know you will find this most interesting."

I was near exhaustion the next night. The men in the crowd demanded more of me than I was able to perform. They seemed to want explicit sex acts, not merely free dancing by nearly naked young women. They equated dancers with hookers. I welcomed Garnet's high sign to cut my last number short and come to his table. "Sharon," he said, "I know tomorrow is your day off, but I would like to have you join the other selected girls and me in going to Mr. LaVey's house. He wants to fill us in on the witches' sabbath and black magic. We've got to start preparing." "Why his house?" I was still uneasy about LaVey. "It's all part of a Satan worship routine. You know anything about that?" My silence spoke for itself. "Everyone has his own hussle going," Garnet said. "LaVey's is this Satan thing. He calls himself the high priest of Satan. He's a full-fledged honcho in that stuff. His wife is a full-fledged witch. They have a Satan church in their home. It's a big thing around here." "You're kidding. You mean they really worship Satan? It's not just for show?" "Hell no. They really mean business. Of course," he grinned, "they put on a really good show too. It's good show business. And that's what I need right now - something to get us out in front of the other clubs. We can be the hottest thing on the strip." He paused, looking first at the drink in his hand and then into my face. His mouth was set. "So I need you to come with us tomorrow. We'll leave from here at three o'clock." "All right, Mr. Garnet. But only because I need the job. I don't go for this Satan stuff." He laughed. "Neither do I, but business is business."

We turned the corner and there was no mistaking LaVey's house. It sat in he middle of the block, with empty lots on each side. The house was wholly black. Not one bit of white or other color showed. Even the curtains were black. "Wow!" one fo the girls wheezed softly. "This is weird," I said. "Look at the lawn," Garnet said. "It's all weeds and dirt." He was right. Nothing of any beauty seemed to be growing around the two-story black monster. "What a place for Halloween!" one of the girls said. We all laughed, a bit too loudly. When I stepped out of the car, I was actually shaking. "Mr. Garnet," I asked weakly, "are we really going into that house?" "Aw, come on, Sharon. If you don't believe in black magic, nothing can hurt you. Don't be afraid." I wasn't convinced. I don't believe the other girls were either. Garnet reached for the doorbell. I expected a gong, or a howl, or something. It was an ordinary "ding dong." The door opened, and there stood LaVey, all in black, his powdery white skin glowing. I felt sick at my stomach as I walked past him. His smile was sickly, I thought. Then I froze in my steps. Straight ahead at the far end of the entrance hall was a human skeleton in a glass case. It seemed to have the same sickly smile as LaVey. "This is all the horror movies rolled into one." I thought. "What am I doing here? I wonder if I'll get out of here in one piece." "Please come right into the living room," LaVey said, with refined politeness. His manners were exaggeratedly excellent. My stomach sickness immediately deepened. The first object to attract my eyes in the living room was a huge, black grand piano. That was okay. But right beside it stood stuffed, full-grown wolf, and atop the piano itself was a stuffed raven. The fireplace mantle held a large stuffed owl. LaVey and Garnet launched immediately into discussion of the witches' sabbath. But I had trouble maintaining concentration. The decor of the house was beyond my imagination. I examined the stuffed animals and found myself shivering. Their eyes seemed alive. "The May pole ritual is a fertility dance." LaVey's voice penetrated my consciousness for a moment. I smiled and felt a giggle inside. "I played that all the time when I was a kid," I thought, "how come I'm not pregnant?" The giggle choked inside me as I caught a glimpse out of the corner of my eye of someone descending the staircase in the hallway. It was a woman with the longest hair I'd ever seen. It was as black as it could possibly be and hung at least three feet below her shoulders, full and thick. At first I thought it must be a wig, but it was real. "Ah, my wife," said LaVey, rising. "Hello, everybody," the woman said, softly and seductively. Her manners were as impeccable as her husband's. She stood for a minute, smiling warmly at everyone, and then said, "Would you girls like to come into the kitchen with me? I'm going to prepare some coffee." "Yes, ladies, why don't you go with Mrs. LaVey while we finish up these details? But we'll be finished soon, and I do want you to stay for our evening services. Things will come a lot clearer to you when you see it first hand." We all looked quickly at one another. I spoke first, and my voice was not particularly steady. "I'm afraid I won't be able to stay, Mr. LaVey. I hope you won't be offended, but I don't believe in the devil, and..." LaVey interrupted me with a wave of the hand and a wide smile across his white face. "But, Sharon, we don't believe in God either, but that doesn't mean he isn't real."

I only shook my head and followed the others into the kitchen. His remark left me speechless, but my first sight upon walking into the large, quite ordinary kitchen changed that. Through a full-glass back wall I could see a real lion in the yard. He was huge, and rather mangy-looking, but he gave a loud roar as he saw us enter the room. "That's too much," I said, only barely audibly. "What kind of place is this?" I added under my breath. I backed out of the kitchen and retreated to the living room. "Mr. LaVey," I interrupted, "I'd like for you to excuse me, please. I'm not feeling too well." I turned to Garnet. "Mr. Garnet, I think I'd better leave now. I'll be your vampire and witch, but I must be going now." "Sharon," LaVey's voice was gentle, but his smile was still strange. "You've only just arrived. Won't you please stay? I'm holding services this evening - there will be special secret rites - and I'm sure you would enjoy it. It isn't often that I invite an outside guest to these rites." I looked right into his eyes momentarily, but I couldn't withstand his gaze. "No thank you, Mr. LaVey. I hope you won't be offended, but I was raised to worship God, not the devil. I must leave now." Garnet apparently recognized the urgency and decided against getting tough with me. "Okay, Sharon, you take the car and we'll get a cab later on." He walked me to the door and out to the car. "Will you be all right?" "Yes." I stopped beside the car. "I'm sorry, Mr. Garnet, but my imagination must have been working overtime. I had visions of somehow being sacrificed and all that. Besides, I'm tired and need to go to bed early tonight." Looking back at the scarey, black house, I wasn't sure I'd be able to go through with LaVey's plans, but then again, what other course did I have?

I looked at my two-inch-long false fingernails, painted brilliant red. And my face was something special, as I looked up into the mirror. It was eerie - milky-white, broken by bright red lips that matched the color of the fingernails by seemingly sunken blue-black eyes expertly twisted upward at the outside corners - grotesquely exaggerated cat eyes. Jet black hair framed it all. I was the perfect, sexy vampire, ready for my casket lying at the center of the stage. Using care because of my fingernails, I reached into my big, black handbag and fished out a pill. Rehearsals had gone well - we were ready for the weirdest show on the strip, but I knew I'd never be able to get into that casket for real without beng stoned. I popped the acid tab into my mouth, carefully avoiding any lipstick smears. As the end of the production neared, I lay inside the casket. I remembered very little of the show. I had shaken several people with the reality of my performance when I had risen from the casket and pointed a long, blood-red fingernail at the audience and marked them as my next victims. Gasps, from both males and females, had sounded all around the club. But as I lay there, I fancied the idea of being dead and still hearing all the sounds around me. I heard everything - the footsteps, the breathing, the sighs in the audience. "But I'm dead," I thought. "It's so pleasant... I'm outside of my dead body... I'm a spirit... I can see and hear everything... I'm dead... But I'm really alive..."

I lay in the casket so long that I missed the curtain call by five minutes. I just didn't want to get out of it. The audience went wild over the performance. Garnet had himself a hit. I was convinced he had a whole lot more than he realized. But the night's success spelled trouble later. Gary, my current lover of about three weeks standing, layed quietly in bed as I entered the room. I was still stretched tight from my acid trip and sat down next to him. "You're awfully quiet, Gary. Is there something the matter?" "I don't like what's happening to you, Sharon," he blurted out. "This whole thing you're into at the club is crazy. It's changed you. All through the rehearsals I've watched you change." "I don't understand," I said softly, not wanting to get into a hassle. "I haven't changed." "Yes, you have," he said sharply. "It's hard to describe. But something's happened to you. When you play your autoharp, for instance, it's creepy. There's a strange sound to it, and when you sing with it, it's like something far out, from somewhere else." I persisted with my soft approach. "Aw, come on, Gary, you're imagining things. This is just a job. There's nothing to that black magic stuff if you don't believe in it. Relax, babe." "Please, Sharon, baby, get out of this show. You don't need the money. We can live dealing dope. You don't need this stuff." Gary was getting to me. And the room started to close in. "I'm going out for a while, Gary. I'm really wired from the acid I dropped tonight. You go to sleep. I'll be back." I picked up my harp and walked out into the street, throwing a gray cape over my shoulder. The night was foggy. I walked along quietly for several minutes and then began to strum the harp softly. I tripped out again - and was a little fairy playing my music. I sat down under a window and played softly for the whole neighborhood. Strangely, no one bothered me. It was dawn when I walked back into the apartment and found a note from Gary. I saw immediately that his things were gone. "Sharon," the note read, "I love you too much to sit and watch you lose yourself to LaVey. Goodbye." I sat quietly and sadly, strumming my harp and humming. The show was a smash hit along the strip. Garnet had scored big. But the witches' sabbath, and my total sellout to LSD, marijuana, and hashish, and to sex with virtually any attractive man, landed me in the hospital in four months. I was half dead from gonorrhea and had a complete physical breakdown.

katie8753 said...>>>>>Are there any experts on Susan's nipples out in the audience?

If so, we might can identify Susan as the "big-nipped" girl on the far left. HA HA HA.<<<<<

In the famous topless photo of Susan standing with the black drape, her nipples aren't that big. You know the photo i mean, right? She's standing topless with a not very low cut bikini bottom, her arms stretched with a black drape. Ugly vampire make up.

Tom, I remember back in the 70's Laverne & Shirley & Happy Days were prime time, I believe on Tuesdays on CBS. I was a "grown up" HA HA. After working all day I'd fix dinner, clean up and sit down for the comedy.

I went down to Miami Beach in 2008 or 2009 and ran a fucking half marathon or whatever it was I was there for......and they had this Jackie Gleeson Arena which I walked around and thought, this is where they made the shows I watched when I was a kid.

I found Sadie's book "Child of Satan" to be a rather strange read. When she describes the murders, her tone seems far too emotionaly detached. True, no one wants to read 200 pages of hand ringing guilt, but still...

>>>Tom said: Charlie would have been perfect to play Ernest T Bass. Charlie is like ErnestT on acid. As long as Ernest T stayed up in the hills he was tolerated but when he came to town all hell broke loose.>>

I agree. Ernest T. was as crazy as a loon. In fact, he could have been a forerunner of the character Charlie Manson likes to play.

>>>Mr. P said: Charlie would have been perfect to play Ernest T Bass. Charlie is like ErnestT on acid. As long as Ernest T stayed up in the hills he was tolerated but when he came to town all hell broke loose.>>

coming into this late but the best sitcom of all time for me comes from across the sea fawlty towers the brits have the right idea-go out on top even the best american sitcoms(all in the family and mash for example)stayed around long past their expiration dates. in england their seasons last between 6 and 10 shows with at least two years in between seasons so the writings as good as possible and they seldom do more than 3 or 4 seasons. and besides all that john cleese is a comedy genius.

There is a great clip on youtube from I think it's the Ben Stiller Show (did he once have one??) called Manson. It's a piss take on the old Lassie episodes with a wild extra hairy Manson as the family pet. Instead of the dog barking and the cast saying "What's that, little Suzie is trapped down the well" it has Charlie spouting his Helter Skelter end of the world rap to get their attention. I'll try to track the link down, it's awesome.

I need to clarify something. Mork didn't appear with Laverne and Shirley. He was on "Happy Days" with Richie and Fonzie. There's a hiklarious scene where Fonzie mentions that they'll rumble and Mork launches into this "West Side Story" theme and dance. You can see Henry Winkler struggling to not laugh. One of my all-time fave TV moments.

I definitely remember watching the Mork appearance the first time around because it basically catapulted Robin Williams into fame. Everyone was talking about his appearance on the show. I always loved "Happy Days" and "Laverne and Shirley." Good times, good memories!

which coincidentally was produced by Robert Eavens who would later be caught up in the "Cotton Club" murder of Roy Radin...

who Maury Terry alleged was part of the same Process Church of final judgement splinter group as Charles Manson and William Metzer who he called " Manson 2" -one of two actual people who killed Radin...

We should call it "The Cass Effect," huh?BTW, I meant to ask Katie where her manners were, not her memories. I'm battling a severe sinus infection and my head is so clogged up that it's ridiculous. so, I'm going to go to bed and hopeully wake up in a less foggy way.

Thanks, Venus, for pointing out which girl is Susan. Maybe there are several rumors about Sharon Tate being a witch and meeting Anton is because Susan used the name Sharon so there was some confusion about that.

Ansom 13 married TJ Walleman and they had kids. She died from breast cancer I believe and he from an auto accident. I believe both remained loyal to Manson til their ends. Ansom was not there in the late 60's but I believe became a strong follower of Charlie years later after the murders. She went on at least one talk show and vociferously defended Charlie. She would write Charlie and visited him which is where iirc she met TJ. Their kids visited Charlie too and there are pics of Charlie having fun with them.

Have been away for a couple days so only getting to comment on this post and comments now.

I think Susan is in the background because i have seen other pics of Susan topless from her time with LaVey and her nipples look almost like rolos, and none of those girls in the pic have rolo type nipples....also about Sharon Tate being on The Beverly Hillbillies here are the links for anyone who wants to watch ithttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMqd2W164HIhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFMxrZlWR3Mhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THphATy5ji4

BTW you guys forgot about Leave it To Beaver in your sitcom lists....I fuckin' loved that show when I was a kid for some reason...don't ask me why though

I was just using rolos as a metaphor when i said rolo type nipples i meant her nipples kinda look like the size and shape of a rolo.Not her breast just the nipple kinda short and stubby...there are lots of different metaphors for nipples, like one of my ex girlfriends used to have nipples that looked lie an eraser on the end of a pencil, and ive seen nipples that are long and skinny that looked like the end of a long skinny baloon that clowns make baloon animals from.

Hey St. just want to say that I've been a lurker on the blogs for a while now and I've always enjoyed reading your comments here and at the Col.'s blog and on Liz's blog and you always come across as witty, intelligent and well spoken.I am somewhat shy so it has taken me a while to come out of my shell and to start commenting. Also just weant to apoligize if I offended any of the lovely women on here with my last post. I am not sexist or chauvinistic at all, i was just trying to be funny....As for my views on Manson. i am in no way a supporter of CM but I just find the whole case so damn fascinating. i do think Charlie is somewhat of a political prisoner. would he still be locked up if Sharon Tate wasn't a victim?...he never killed anyone, but he is guilty of conspiracy. I can relate to the girls because I came from a well to do family. In south Western Ontario my family name is well known because of the family Business my grandfather started. and when I was younger I had a bit of a substance abuse problem that led to a bit of jail time. So in those regards I symphathize and have that in common with the girls like squeaky and sandy etc. that came from upper middle class backgrounds only to end up fucked up. the difference is I learned from my mistakes and made changes and became a better person. I sometimes wonder though if I was a teenager in the late 60s living in Cali. and came across the family would I have joined up?...i tell myself no but you never know.

My opinion of the whole case is that i don't believe the HS theory made up by the Bug, but i dont know what the motive really was. Maybe drugs?, maybe copycat?...who knows. I just find it interesting and want to know as much as I can find out about it

Katie, i realize Bug didn't invent the words "Helter Skelter" I just don't subscribe to the motive he fabricated to convict Manson.

As far as joining the family...I just think that had I been alive and in Cali in the late 60s I would have been part of the counter cultural movement and prolly would've been seduced by the premise of sex & drugs, peace & love mumbo jumbo that Charlie preached and the girls parroted. You have to remember numerous former members and associate of the family have claimed it was all peace and love and fun times before it turned dark and violent.

At the first notice of violence and what not, I would have fled like TJ did, and Ella Jo Bailey.

I totally agree with you Katie that charlie is the one responsible for these murders, there is no denying that, and i am not sympathetic towards him. I just think if it had not of been for Sharon Tate being a victim, the intrigue and hoopla surrounding this case wouldn't be there. There has been mass murderers since 1969 that after you read the story in the paper or see it on the news, it just gets forgotten. i think without the notoriety of the case cause of the victims and the general interest by the public on the case most of the killers might be free by now, especially Bobby & Bruce & Lulu. They are now labeled and attached to the Manson stigma and will probably never get out

I know this is off topic, but I came across this and some of you might be interested in it. Its a movie called "Gimme Skelter"

here is the synopsis:

What if Charles Manson's illegitimate son decided to follow in his father's footsteps and start his own "family?" They've come to town on a mission... they are going to kill as many people as they can in one night.

Trailer can be viewed at:

http://207.32.176.74/index.php?id=gimme-skelter-teaser-trailer

film can be viewed as well as numerous other Manson related movies and Documentaries at:

Some people think that Leslie, Pat, Bruce and Bobby should be released.

I say not.

Leslie, Pat, Bruce & especially Bobby willingly took part in taking lives. For Leslie, Pat & Bruce, for no reason at all, except that their hippy cult leader told them to.

For Bobby, he just decided that killing Gary would prevent him from getting into trouble.

Bobby for sure should never get out. I really think that the decision to kill Gary wasn't Manson's...it was Bobby's.

Bobby's callous disregard of taking a human life...a human life of a "friend" of his...laughing about it later when he saw the maggots on Gary....driving Gary's car...in my opinion, this makes him just as monstrous as Tex.

Bing said >>>>>I just think if it had not of been for Sharon Tate being a victim, the intrigue and hoopla surrounding this case wouldn't be there. There has been mass murderers since 1969 that after you read the story in the paper or see it on the news, it just gets forgotten. i think without the notoriety of the case cause of the victims and the general interest by the public on the case most of the killers might be free by now, especially Bobby & Bruce & Lulu. They are now labeled and attached to the Manson stigma and will probably never get out<<<<<<

Hi Bing, i like your posts, and i like your candor too. Just don't agree with the above....

These people are never getting out because of the sheer brutality of their crimes. And they shouldn't. I'm sorry that Patricia Krenwinkel, by all accounts a gentle child, grew up to be a killer and commit such horrible acts, but she did, and she will pay with her freedom until the day she dies, just like Susan Atkins paid. These people are lucky they weren't put to death.

Same with Horseteeth...her denial of serious involvement with comments like 'i felt she was already dead' only makes her situation worse, and makes her sound apathetic in the midst of unspeakable human suffering. The facts are that she walked into a private home knowing the people living there were going to be killed and that she was going to participate. She told a jury in her third trial that she thought long and hard about whether or not she could kill and decided that she could. You don't get to live in free society again after you do such things.

I sincerely believe if we combine all the elements of the crimes, very little of the interest we've seen for the last 40 years has been held together by the mediocre celebrity status of one of the many victims...

A young kid like Steven, shot in the face as he drives out of a driveway? A 39 year old wife and mother, asleep in the privacy of her own bedroom ends up with her pillowcase yanked over her head and tied down with her bedside lamp...screaming as she hears her husband being stabbed to death in the next room of their home while filthy skanks hack at her with knives? It's terrifying. My heart aches for Rosemary's bravery, and for her suffering, and for the suffering of all the victims.

I understand your opinion, I just feel strongly that I won't victimize the victims...that if it weren't for who and what they were, there would be less ongoing interest and their killers would be free. I don't think so.

>>>Same with Horseteeth...her denial of serious involvement with comments like 'i felt she was already dead' only makes her situation worse, and makes her sound apathetic in the midst of unspeakable human suffering. The facts are that she walked into a private home knowing the people living there were going to be killed and that she was going to participate.>>>

Right on!!! Horseteeth went willingly into a private home, went to Rosemary's bedroom, accosted her, tied a lamp cord around her neck, covered her with a pillow case, held her down, told her it would be alright, until Rosemary started screaming "What are you doing to my husband".

If all of you would just stop and think.

It's a late Saturday night/Sunday morning. You've just gotten home from a long drive from the lake. You've gotten into your night clothes and are settling into bed.

Your home is your castle...right? No one can hurt you there. Especially back then.

Enter Charlie, Tex, Leslie & Pat.

Suddenly your right world turns upside down.

Two girls are on you with lamp cords and knives. Your husband is screaming.

Does anyone realize that BEFORE Tex severed Rosemary's spinal cord that she crawled. She crawled to get away. When the girls called Tex in for the kill, he severed her spinal cord.

And Suzanne wants to forgive him??? I'm telling you what. There's something really wrong with Suzanne. I've said that many, many times. If someone did that to my mother, I would NOT forgive him.

She didn't make it.

Rosemary Labianca had 42 stab wounds to her body. Mostly in the back and lower back. But some in the upper back, which were fatal.

Her nightgown was drawn up above her waist to reveal her naked buttocks. What a nice sight to see for her children.

Horseteeth said she only stabbed her after she was dead.

Nice!!!! Then horsey got cheese and chocolate milk from the fridge that Rosemary had bought that day.

She had no remorse. She HAS no remorse. She's a sick motherfucker that just needs to die.

That's the thing Marliese. If that were a pic of Patricia with Anton Lavey then it would be easier to understand Patricia's two nights of gore. Perhaps it is Patricia, not Leslie van houten, who least fits the profile of a killer?Anybody can understand a blood drinking devil worshipper becoming a killer but Patricia had no violence in her past prior to Charlie waking her up the night of Aug 8 and telling her to "do what Tex tells you". How did Charlie know that Patricia would be his most blood thirtsy assasin? there were other girls already awake that were standing around fully aware of the gravity of what was brewing. Patricia was sleeping off a LSD hangover minding her own business. Yet Charlie knew she'd kill for him.

FRIENDS

"Charlie Manson is a five foot seven schizophrenic, who if it weren't for the murder of Sharon Tate, would never be known or discussed. And I'm not saying he isn't funny and entertaining. I'm saying he's a dime a dozen criminal-class punk, who had the good fortune of running into some middle class pseudo-revolutionary white girls." -- Tom G

"The simple and undeniable truth, is that Charlie and the gang were/are the biggest idiots, morons and imbeciles on the planet." -- Leary7

"Them fucking fruitcakes could not pour piss out of a boot, with the bottom written on it."--Harold True