For the last year, I've been wanting to take up Zen training, though I haven't yet visited a Zen center. I am looking for a Zen center where the Dharma teachings are given in English, while still maintaining traditional Buddhist teachings like karma and rebirth.

What are the benefits of Zen training for one's daily life, in terms of how it's changed your behavior and your outlook on life? I appreciate your help.

Dharma Flower wrote:For the last year, I've been wanting to take up Zen training, though I haven't yet visited a Zen center. I am looking for a Zen center where the Dharma teachings are given in English, while still maintaining traditional Buddhist teachings like karma and rebirth.

This isn't really what you asked for, but my usual advice is to find and follow the teacher with whom one feels affinity, rather than seek out a particular style, lineage, or type of practice.

Dharma Flower wrote:What are the benefits of Zen training for one's daily life, in terms of how it's changed your behavior and your outlook on life?

In my teens and college years I suffered from crippling depression and night panic attacks. This all disappeared suddenly after beginning to practice.

Additionally, I believe I have gradually become less of an asshole.

~ Meido

It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

I watched several videos online of a local Zen priest who had converted to Buddhism, who seemed either drunk or hung over in each video. When asked questions at the end of his talks, he would also answer them somewhat belligerently, especially if it was a topic he didn't like, like rebirth.

I then looked up who his teacher was, and his teacher, who came to the U.S. from Japan, was a well-known alcoholic who had affairs with his students. There have been other well-known Zen teachers in the West who violated the five precepts as well.

Is there a way to separate the message from the messenger? I ask these questions because I am trying to find the right teacher, and I want to know what's considered normal in American Zen, which is why I am not naming names. I appreciate your help.

Meido wrote:
In my teens and college years I suffered from crippling depression and night panic attacks. This all disappeared suddenly after beginning to practice.

Additionally, I believe I have gradually become less of an asshole.

Thank you. I appreciate you sharing your story. Of all the Zen masters I've read, they taught meditation to help others fulfill the Bodhisattva vows, rather than simply meditating simply for the sake of meditation itself. It's good to see it's made a difference in your life.

Mod note: Edit. I am looking for a Zen center that roots itself in traditional Buddhist teachings. May you be happy and well.

Last edited by Ayu on Sat May 27, 2017 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:It was me editing.

Dharma Flower wrote:Is there a way to separate the message from the messenger? I ask these questions because I am trying to find the right teacher, and I want to know what's considered normal in American Zen, which is why I am not naming names.

No need to separate anything. One should search for a teacher carefully and patiently.

"Carefully" means to contact and visit any (many) teachers that interest you, check out their writings and talks, attend retreats with them, and so on. Obviously this is something easier to do now than at any time in history.

"Patiently" means to take one's time - a few years - to examine a teacher before committing. Of course during this time one may still receive instruction and practice basic things, so there is nothing lost by not rushing.

Which is not to say that you'll always hear much talk of 4NT, 8 fold path, paramitas, etc. at some places. Zen has its own approach which does not negate these things, but does not necessarily rely on them. Largely depends on the teacher's and lineage's style. For example, if you go to a Rinzai place, entering through the body is the crucial point in the beginning; sutra study is considered less a necessary foundation than a method to confirm and seal one's understanding later.

Make a list of places that interest you and contact them directly with your questions regarding details of their paths. Then, start visiting.

~ Meido

It is relatively easy to accomplish the important matter of insight into one’s true nature, but uncommonly difficult to function freely and clearly [according to this understanding], in motion and in rest, in good and in adverse circumstances. Please make strenuous and vigorous efforts towards this end, otherwise all the teachings of Buddhas and patriarchs become mere empty words. - Torei

Meido wrote:For example, if you go to a Rinzai place, entering through the body is the crucial point in the beginning; sutra study is considered less a necessary foundation than a method to confirm and seal one's understanding later.

Dharma Flower wrote:Is there a way to separate the message from the messenger? I ask these questions because I am trying to find the right teacher, and I want to know what's considered normal in American Zen, which is why I am not naming names.

No need to separate anything. One should search for a teacher carefully and patiently.

"Carefully" means to contact and visit any (many) teachers that interest you, check out their writings and talks, attend retreats with them, and so on. Obviously this is something easier to do now than at any time in history.

"Patiently" means to take one's time - a few years - to examine a teacher before committing. Of course during this time one may still receive instruction and practice basic things, so there is nothing lost by not rushing.

Which is not to say that you'll always hear much talk of 4NT, 8 fold path, paramitas, etc. at some places. Zen has its own approach which does not negate these things, but does not necessarily rely on them. Largely depends on the teacher's and lineage's style. For example, if you go to a Rinzai place, entering through the body is the crucial point in the beginning; sutra study is considered less a necessary foundation than a method to confirm and seal one's understanding later.

Make a list of places that interest you and contact them directly with your questions regarding details of their paths. Then, start visiting.

~ Meido

Great advice!

Child, if you are not hypocritical and out of control, that is conduct.
~ Padampa Sangye

You say such clever things to people, but you do not apply them to yourself.
The faults within you are the ones to be exposed.
~ Padampa Sangye

Until I find the right Zen teacher, is it possible to have a manual for doing at-home daily Zen practice, with the morning and evening chanting from a Zen temple or monastery, such as the Bodhisattva Vows and the Heart Sutra? I appreciate your help.

I may not be interested in leaving my current Jodo Shinshu temple, or adding another Buddhist center to my schedule, since my family would not like me adding that to my schedule. Maybe the best thing is if I incorporate Zen chanting into my daily home practice.

I've thought about attending meditation sessions at the local Vietnamese Zen temple. The Dharma talks are not in English, but the priest speaks English and seems friendly. Maybe he could answer my questions about practice, if I got to know him.

This what Zen means to me, realizing the aspect of Suchness in every activity of one's life:

Shenxiu was highly educated and studied the Buddhist scriptures assiduously. He re-interpreted the scriptures as metaphors of “skilful means” (Sanskrit: upāya; fangbian 方便) for “contemplation of the mind," (kan xin 看心) advocating the attainment of Buddhahood in all daily activities, here and now. Every act was seen as religious practice. For example, he saw simple activities, like taking a bath, as a religious act. He taught that soap used to clean away dirt “is actually the ability of discrimination by which one can ferret out the sources of evil within oneself.” Cleaning the mouth with toothpicks is “nothing less than the Truth by which one puts an end to false speech.” Overt religious activities such as burning of incense were seen as “the unconditioned Dharma, which ‘perfumes’ the tainted and evil karma of ignorance and cause it to disappear.” [14]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuquan_Shenxiu#Teachings

Historically, Zen masters would give lay people practices to take home with them, that were much simpler than what they would expect of fellow monks. It's only in the last century or so that it's become vogue for lay people to take on full blown Zen training.