I've started considering putting a slightly faster disc in my bag, because I feel like I'm starting to throw well enough to experiment with faster disc. My fastest driver at the moment is a Saint, and I'm looking for something slightly faster (10-11) and stable/slightly overstable. I'm looking at 4 discs in particular- wraith, flow, DD and Surge. I don't want to make a wrong decision, because it is really windy where I live, and a good workhorse driver for me would have to fight some wind almost every day (I have an Archon for that rare calm day). Can anyone tell me which of these drivers will fill that role best, or even suggest another one they've thrown that can perform well under these parameters?

P.S. I know a lot of people will want to say "Destroyer", but I've thrown Destroyers several times, and I just can't fall in love with them. I'll throw one if it's the absolute best disc for the job, but I'd rather try something else first.

My wife throws the Cyclone and Gazelle, especially in the wind. They are not high speed drivers, but they have great glide and can go very far if thrown with finesse. Plus, they are over-stable enough that they always hook back after the glidey phase of flight...

They are all for the same slot, one disc to add to this category is Westside Sword. Sword and Flow have more glide than Wraith or Surge (or DD, I think). In general, Opto/Z/Champ is more stable than the other plastics, but that's not always the case.

Sorry for the short answer, JR will write soon a longer reply, correcting all the facts I got wrong...

you could possibly step up to a GL Villain/ESP Force type disc these aren't super fast but they are stable to overstable. I think they can be had in lighter weight also.

I just picked up a Sword and a Boatman. Both are really neat. I think the Boatman may be interesting for you. It's about a speed 10 but it is Teebird stable. Kinda reminds me of a Starfire. You could also test out a Champ Starfire.

Wraith or surge fit that slot nicely. Boatman could also work for this but is a bit more overstable than the wraith or surge will be. The sword will be more understable than any of those discs but also goes a decently long way.

On a side note, I didn't like destroyers for the longest time, stuck with wraiths and surges but one day destroyers finally clicked for me for some reason. Doesn't make any sense but now I love me some destroyers.

surge, wraith, dd, all same all good which ever feel better to you. the flow is a tick less stable then the others depending on the disc its self. Based on some of your earlier post I would recommend you look at the surge ss, rogue, orc, flash, and Krait as well.

how is the Archon you picked up flying for you? If you are turning the archon over go for the surge or wraith if the archon is stable for you then go with the surge ss.

money 21 wrote:surge, wraith, dd, all same all good which ever feel better to you. the flow is a tick less stable then the others depending on the disc its self. Based on some of your earlier post I would recommend you look at the surge ss, rogue, orc, flash, and Krait as well.

how is the Archon you picked up flying for you? If you are turning the archon over go for the surge or wraith if the archon is stable for you then go with the surge ss.

I'm not quite sure yet, because I just got it yesterday and haven't had time to go really test it. I am going to a tournament on Saturday, and a Surge is one of the discs they're giving away in the player pack, so I might just try that when I get it and see how it flies for me. I also ordered 2 Volts from MVP, so depending on how they fly this may solve my problem.

I'm actually thinking a low 170s pro wraith would be a pretty solid way to warm up to faster drivers. I'm trying to work my way up as well and I think right now I am able to throw my slightly broken in 168 pro wraith pretty well. But everything has to line up perfect. Its not my most consistent throw so I don't usually toss it but I'm working up to it.

as far as wind goes, my pro wraith just turns over in wind... its light and domey. Maybe try a flatter star wraith?

Flat Wraiths tend to be less stable, but the biggest factor is always PLH. Get a 170+ Star or Champ Wraith with high PLH and dome for wind fighting. It's not an ideal headwind driver, but it will handle it much better than a Pro Wraith.

At your power the PD could be still left fading but you used often misused terms and i am not 100 % sure of what you were asking for. Stable means straight and overstable means a wind beater that hooks left without flipping in a headwind. The discs you named all fade fairly hard at your power in calm conditions. And as such aren't workhorse discs because they aren't good for each line in all conditions. Nothing is so perfect that it would beat disc x in one category and disc y in another and so on but the PD is pretty nice in the winds and not at all poor in calm conditions. Except for the Volt the discs you mentioned are variations of the same. Flows vary and for less flipping and more fade=better in headwinds avoid GL. Optos vary too. In general they aren't too far off of the about similarly fading Surge which is the slowest and shortest of the bunch. Wraiths in the many variations are next and DD normally fades the most. Thus the Flow that doesn't fade as much as the Wraith are about equally long for a 400' thrower but i have to imagine that at your power the Wraith would fade out earlier without a headwind. I'm not so sure that you have enough power for the Sword because it is basically a slightly straighter as long slightly lower power requirement Destroyer. I'm wary of recommending any of those discs for normal use for your D but thinking back i threw the Surge for distance drives when i threw as far as you do and a little farther. The silly thing is that i used Surge SSs that in Z early examples were identical to the Surges and in FLX fades out earlier. Others have said that later Surge SSs do flip so now there's a difference. I like mine so i'm not swapping

Beast and Surge are almost as long so the Surge is like a harder fading Beast. I don't know how the Volt flies so i can't say but it is slower thus it has a low power requirement but will it fade enough in a headwind? Based on how it's been described it just might at your power. People that throw fast discs over 400' get some turn out of Volts so it's like your max power plus some headwind. So in storms it might flip on you.

Flat shots need running on the center line of the tee and planting each step on the center line. Anhyzer needs running from rear right to front left with the plant step hitting the ground to the left of the line you're running on. Hyzer is the mirror of that.

I throw in the 350 max d range flat/calm. For me I use a Champ Destoyer 165 gram for headwind. Its super solid stable (no turn) into the wind up to say 20 mph. Over that it starts to flip some and wont fade. Have a Opto flow and its certainly not as stable. Will turn 20-30 feet or so into headwind, perfect though without wind. I love the champ Destro cause I can throw it as hard as I want and no flip. Something to consider if the Volt doesnt cut it.