Comment by jumbodog

Let me try to stop the QQ before it gets too far out of hand. The reason this trinket has Spirit on it is because in MoP Spirit is being buffed compared to Cata. In Cata intellect was both a throughput stat (HPS, healing per second) and a mana regeneration stat (MPS). In MoP intellect is only a throughput stat and will not affect mana regeneration.

Spirit is our exclusive man regeneration stat in MoP.

So this is a properly itemized trinket for healers in MoP.

Comment by tidus93

With all this spirit this trinket will most likely be BiS for most healers in mop

Does anyone know the current ICD for the proc btw?

Comment by Posser

P

Comment by Spleener

This was changed from +spirit/spirit proc to +int/spirit proc, which means that instead of being BiS for regen it's now just a weaker Spirits of the Sun. Healers (and their wallets) can now breathe a little easier, as the fact that you'll replace this in the middle of the current tier rather than the next one means that you don't have as much pressure to drop thousands of gold on the thing.

Comment by McMeyer

Have anyone been testing the proc on this Trinket on Beta?

If the proc has an internal CD of say 2 min, we have a +1157 int + 505 spirit (3027/120 sec* 20 sec).

So be that sounds pretty powerfull considering it's "only" a ilvl 476.

Comment by nightlily

I can't do a proper comparison because wowhead's data on the procs of our trinkets appear to be inaccurate (LFR, normal, and heroic versions of other trinkets are listing the exact same proc numbers), however if EJ's numbers are correct, then this will definitely be better than every non-heroic trinket.

I suspect that most healers will not be replacing the trinket during this tier, it is clearly overbudget for its item level. Since I dislike the idea of Intellect procs from items such as Qin-Xi's Polarizing Seal, I'm considering this trinket to be BiS along with Spirit of the Sun.

Comment by skmzarn

Just got my hands on this trinket. I can confirm that it is 45s ICD. Relatively high proc chance. It procs of any direct heals as well as hots. Tested on resto druid.

Comment by McMeyer

I have been testing the trinket and my numbers show that it in average procs every 50 seconds.

3027 * 20 sec / 50 sec = 1,210.8 spirit

Don't let the low itemlevel fool.

Comment by zomgname

This trinket has one of the prettiest procs in the game. Small swirly golden orbs, and it seems to turn other spells the same color, Holy Paladins Eternal Flame tornado animation turns white-gold and looks awesome.

Comment by Pommes

I just tried it multiple times. It seems to have more like a 30s ICD

so its like (3027*20s ) / 30s = 2018 spirit ... pretty nice

Comment by Aevitas

What's weird about this item is that when you compare it to Relic of Yu'lon, which has passive intellect and procs intellect, and Relic of Xuen which has passive agility and procs agility, both have passive and primary stat procs. This trinket has a primary passive stat, and a secondary stat proc.

According to WowWiki's stat modifiers section:

Primary Stat (STR, AGI, INT, SPI) 1.00

Spirit is now a primary stat, which weighs as heavy on the item budget as Intellect and Agility do. This isn't reflected at all in the passive intellect on this item, which is 1156, compared to the Caster DPS' "mere" 956.

When you take a look at gems, the current spirit gem Sparkling River's Heart provides 320 spirit where the current intellect gem Brilliant Primordial Ruby provides 160 intellect. This would indicate that spirit is in fact cheaper on the item budget than intellect is. This would indicate that spirit is in fact not a primary stat, but a secondary. This is further backed up by the ability to reforge into and from spirit, which is only possible with secondary stats and item bonuses.

This does put this trinket in a bit of a weird spot to be, it "feels" as if the spirit proc is a bit low, and the additional intellect on it doesn't compensate for that. Seeing Spirit is now listed as a primary stat, rather than a secondary, you'd expect the same amount of intellect but a larger spirit proc - roughly twice as much as the respective intellect and agility procs, following the trend of gems and gear.

That's not the case however, which does raise the question: is this item possibly under budget, or are the respective other trinkets over budget?

Comment by herniter

The uptime is amazing. Looking at World of Logs

Against the Stone Guard a 7.5 minute fight for my guild the uptime was 42.3%. ~1260 spirit.

Against Feng ~8 minute fight the uptime was 43.6%. ~1290 spirit.

Comment by lvlark

Relic of Chi Ji versus Spirits of the Sun(on normal, with 6908 spirit) (obviously from a healer PoV, because a spirit proc is useless for DPS, even if it equals hit):

1157 int vs 1152 int.3027 spi for 20s on a 45s ICD vs 6908 spi for 20s on a 105s ICD.Counting an average of 5 seconds before it procs:SotS: 1152 int + 1256 spi averageRoCJ: 1157 int + 1210.8 spi averageThe one has 5 more int and the other has 45 more spirit.The Relic has a 20% proc chance (according to WoWHead), while Spirits has a 15% proc chance, BUT the Spirits procs off of spells doing healing, while Relic procs off of heals cast. This will work slightly in favour of the Spirits I suppose, netting that one a marginal win on stats. Also, Spirits could proc while you're NOT casting healing spells, which could either mean it's proc go into 'overregen' (if you allow me the word), or means less downtime on the proc.

Another difference is the way in which they proc. One could say that the Spirits has the second proc of Relic rolled into the first proc. Ie, if the Relic procs an odd number of times in a fight (say 5), then the Spirits would have procced 3 times, netting you more regen with the Spirits because the proc comes in bigger chunks. That argument goes the other way as well though: The first proc of such a regen trinket has a high chance of going to waste, because a number of fights don't require heavy healing at the beginning of a fight, so that Spirits will probably have more 'overregen'. Both of these effects will be less important the longer the fight lasts.

With all of this in mind, there's no telling which will be better. I think I'll take the Relic though, both because I can acquire it earlier (I'm a scribe myself), and because I preload Riptide on the tank and will probably have the first proc of either gone to waste anyway.

Now obviously the heroic version of Spirits of the Sun will outperform both. Just don't make the mistake of thinking Spirits normal is an upgrade if you have the Relic and kindly pass it on to your co-healer (or even offspec healer) that doesn't.

Darkmoon trinket is still better for mana regen than the new raidfinder/pvp trinket if you remembered to upgrade DM trink before 5.2 came.

But as for PvP, you will have to decide yourself PvP stats worth ~2 gems and an Oh-%^&*-button for when you are stunned/silenced, OR intellect worth ~6 gems.

Comment by maely

Did some quick number-crunching today because I was curious about Challenge Mode/Proving Ground trinkets. Now, due to the way item level downscaling works, you're going to want to avoid ppm trinkets such as Horridon's Last Gasp. For every single one of these trinkets, I added five seconds to the stated cooldown to allow for a few seconds delay in proc or in activation by the user.

The Empty Fruit Barrel is assumed to have an icd of 35sec, and remember that I added five more sec for one use every ~40sec.The Price of Progress was calculated assuming one proc per 60sec and multiplying the effective mp5 by 1.77.The Soothing Talisman was calculated assuming one use every 185sec and multiplying the effective mp5 by 1.77.

Long story short, the Relic of Chi-Ji is definitely the best Challenge Mode healer trinket available. After the Relic of Chi-Ji, I would next look at the Fruit Barrel, one of the 5.0 LFR trinkets, or the Soothing Talisman trinket. All are about equal.

Comment by irishlord

my priest just bought this on timeless isle for 50k coins. i see no info on it here. I want it for my mage for the intell.