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Everything posted by Tommy86

Only meaningful difference in Stun duration is if you are 10 Str / Buggzy / Tommy. Otherwise all other counselors are between 6-7s stun (even going as low as 5s but I am still working out why), whereas 10 Str produces approx 8.5s. It is consistent with the idea that stats of 10 and 1 have unique properties with a special +/- ratio than all other stats inbetween.
Composure is a bit of an afterthought for high speed counselors, since they are able to create considerable distance in danger. A low speed counselor however, even with decent stamina, is surely in danger in prolonged combat without sufficient Comp. Stumbles are no joke in this case, as they can happen at the worst moment - due to RNG, you will never know when that moment is. This is a good reason why I consider No Fear Jenny to be one of the top tier counselors, since despite her low mobility, she is absolutely the most stable counselor and has high Luck / weapon durability to back it up.
Put her in front of Jason for the whole match and she won't even change her expression, as technically she doesn't even realize he is there. That's a pretty big advantage considering No Fear always nets you a perfect 10s stamina regen all throughout the match.

Good to see likeminded souls. I guess in my bewilderment of seeing a stat of 1 Luck, I entirely missed -
Which means you must be either a new player or a troll. Everyone knows Stealth is the most worthless stat in the game, because of 1) Sense and 2) Jason patrolling objectives which is where you will always be hanging around. Also an additional 3) split pushing objectives as a team which 100% negates the need of any Stealth. I include Tommy power box and Shack as objectives as well.
If you are truly a new player, I direct you to this guide to help you advance. Not all of the techniques work anymore, but it will provide you with a general guideline of what to do - which is fight and assert your dominance against Jason. Your Luck stat (weapon durability) is directly representative of how long you are able to contest Jason in combat / the match, which makes it the most important stat in the game.
With the right technique, your avg Jason is simply a walking stamina regenerator in the game. Even with 0 obj completed, you can just win by timeout providing you are able fend him off in every interaction.

Well I actually think I am part of the majority on this one. Not that it matters to me whatsoever, but it is a strong reason why you rarely see those maps chosen.
I don’t think it entirely has to do with playstyle or how someone enjoys the game either. Those who don’t get bored, usually get frustrated because of empty cabins and finding parts a full map away from the objective. Until they finally get tunneled and either win by timeout or die.
A slow counselor needn’t even bother moving from the sector they spawned in, since all other sectors will probably be looted by the time they get there. So it is often just travelling large distances for nothing, and really undermines any counselor who isn’t mobility-prioritised. I would call that inherently imbalanced.
You can have that exact same setting and mood without needlessly blowing up the size of a map and separating players. Devs tried to increase tension by increasing isolation, when not only was that unnecessary, but came with many negatives as a result.
Anyway it’s not a bad discussion but I think I’ve said all I wanted now.

Again, not a matter of right or wrong. I’m not telling anyone who enjoys those maps that they are wrong to enjoy them after all.
I’m simply defending my point of view why I think they are poorly designed, and that immersion / tension is irrelevant for experienced players - and not a good reason to unnecessarily expand a map and isolate players to the point of boredom.
No one skilled is stealthing around immersed and afraid of running into Jason, I can definitely tell you that. It is something that was common only around release, and it is a shame that the devs based the pacing of the extra maps on that. Simply a lack of foresight and poor judgement.

I never said I wouldn’t get killed against him. In fact I enjoyed those matches very much, Khan’s a good guy. So don’t try to sour it. My execution was solid but my strategy needed work, it is a different ball game against kill squads (which I’ve heard you refuse to play against). There will be some rematches.

It is not a matter of right or wrong. It is about the most effective way to play as counselor, and the most excitement you can get out of a match.
If you don’t see Jason for most of it because you have to traverse huge sections of random areas where he will not be - since he is always patrolling objectives instead - then how can that be anything other than a boring experience? Honestly who is actually trying to stealth around hoping they don’t run into Jason these days?
And if you are not afraid of Jason, because you are confident and experienced in your abilities as counselor, then how can tension be a factor in your gameplay? Certainly not just from simply jogging around a map. There are plenty of exciting moments to be had, but that is definitely not one of them. Unless you are actively trying to role play or something.
Attention span again has nothing to do with it, and the way you have explained it communicates to me that perhaps you haven’t played the game enough or advanced enough as a player to understand these points.

How does attention span have anything to do with how short-lived your immersion is? Did you even read what I wrote? Because I’m sorry to say you missed the point entirely.
In this game, if you are afraid of Jason you are dead weight to your team. Any knowledgeable player will tell you that. Combat is absolutely the most important thing to master, if you can consistently assert your dominance over Jason then it allows you to dictate the match rather than the other way around.
I also don’t think I overanalysed at all, I tried to provide a good explanation without making the post too lengthy. Talk about short attention span. For some people no amount of explaining will make them understand anyway, since they are simply too close minded to begin with.
I couldn’t care less about sightseeing, give me a map with some iconic set pieces / cabins, reasonably scaled to allow plenty of interaction / conflict, and I’m all good. Any more than that is just wasted space and that’s exactly what you get on Jarvis / Pinehurst. Jogging around for most of the match on your own, simply trying to find parts, is not in the least bit exciting for anyone other than the immersed casual.

@JennyMyers1984 Yeah we are definitely on the same wavelength. The permanent stalk idea is something that's been suggested many times in the past, and would've made the most sense. It is comical that a game based on a killer who is renowned for stalking his victims is represented with blaring music whenever he is in vicinity. And that even when the ability becomes active, can be easily recognized.

Personally I'd much rather see a NOES game over Halloween for an asym horror, purely because of its creative potential. There is so much more that could be done in the context of a dream world, and could be a truly unique experience.

Absolutely. Stalk even has a different cue which is easily recognizable for any experienced counselor. It is a highly overrated ability. The Stalk Shifts that players achieve are typically not because of Stalk, but because of long range Shift on its own.

Tension / immersion is something that is very short lived for any dedicated player. After enough time playing and actively learning, you are no longer concerned about Jason popping out from around a corner. You are simply looking to get better. And IMO the best way to advance is to actively take Jason on, as your skill in combat is the best representation of your skill at the game. There will always be conflict between counselor and Jason, so if you can consistently fight him off or to accomplish what you need to, you can handle any situation in a match. Conversely, the crouch walking AJ that's letting tension get the better of them will never improve because they will never be confident or experienced at facing Jason without fear.
So what is it that a skilled counselor looks for in a match? I can tell you, they look for an action-packed experience - not Crystal Lake sightseeing / empty drawer simulator. Which is mainly what you get on Jarvis or Pinehurst for the majority of a match. Their map size and design discourages interaction between both other counselors and Jason, hence boring match. I will say that visually, Pinehurst looks the best out of all the maps and has some interesting design decisions which I like - however, the sheer size of it in relation to amount of players, and amount of wasted space is a huge negative.
The problem is the idea of trying to apply an SP horror experience like Alien Isolation to an MP F13, and that simply doesn't work. It cannot be maintained. Immersion = short lived, and that's where the devs went wrong with their design choices. They were admittedly surprised at the pace people liked to play the game at, because they never had any good foresight of how it would progress when counselors played without fear of Jason.

Read the description for it, they do not even have the license for it yet. They are asking for funds just to even acquire it. Gameplay sounds like it was copy pasted from F13. Not to mention the project looks obviously amateurish.

Hacking is one thing, but something like that would fall in line with modding which simply isn’t possible for the game. I am literally talking to people digging around in the build right now. There is nothing to be gullible about, it is 100% real.

Agree with everything. Nothing gets done on Jarvis/Pinehurst because it is simply a PITA to acquire the parts, and then you have to deal with the slow repair-centric counselors who went looking for them and are nowhere near the obj when needed. Thus it is police call, Jason kill or timeout basically. The other large maps I think are fine, with Higgins being the most well designed IMO.
If it were up to me though, all of the maps would have been far smaller to encourage more player interaction and more action.
@HuDawg it is a shame you are on xbox. I would've loved to prove you wrong on PS4 regarding your "worst kind of players" comment.

So nice to read someone agrees with me on this. Jarvis and Pineworst are awful maps which only serve to create a meaningless, boring match with very little player interaction. Whether interacting with other counselors or Jason for that matter.
I have no idea what kind of Jasons you're playing, but if you don't need to rely on combat, then they are most definitely weak Jasons. Combat is absolutely required against any Jason player who correctly pressures stamina / health and defends objectives. What are you going to do once you no longer have any mobility advantage?
On topic, I would add something to the discussion but @JennyMyers1984 has basically said it all for me.

Actually I almost 100% agree with that tier list. I would personally put Part 5 above Part 6 however, as I think -Morph can be a significant weakness. I also prefer the running Jasons particularly in group combat setting.
And yes, I agree that competitively Part 4 is the worst Jason hands down. There is just no reason at all to pick him over Part 3 who is very similar but without the -Shift and -Traps combo of doom. The bonus +Destruction is not worth those negatives at all, even Part 7 is now better post-buff.

-Stun Resistance is actually a favorable stat against high dmg weapons eg. machete, axe. You would rather be stunned and take almost zero damage, rather than take 75-80 just off one heavy hit from a 10 Str. Stun Resist is one of the last things I intend to test as well however. Also 10 more health simply = 1 less mistake. If a group is intent on demasking you then they can just as easily succeed, if a normal Def Jason even steps in a bear trap he is already almost down to -Def / Less HP stat. Or even 1 close range shotgun will take about half your health. It is simply too easy to demask Jason, his mask HP is a joke even at base stat so it is basically a non-point.
Well yes but we are talking in the context of skilled players. There is no discussion to be had about a tier list out of that context, since casuals / inexperienced players will get pummeled even with Savini who is head and shoulders above the other Jasons. I would also generally discourage even aiming knives, since they are so easy to dodge at mid range. Close range quick toss, with no aiming will catch any counselor off guard particularly if you use it at as a counter and interrupt recovery with block for safety. But yes you are correct they are a finite resource, and if going up against a kill squad are best saved solely for group combat. A +TK Jason also saves a lot of time finding and even picking up knives, since the animation is lengthy.
In regards to J9, his +Shift paired with normal morph allows good mobility and stam pressure. You have a better chance of catching cars as well. But beyond that, there is nothing special about him and -Traps is a big negative. +Shift is obviously his strongest stat, but he absolutely needs to rely on it. I don't see good reason to use him over J3, J8 or J5.

Absolutely not. A running Jason with +TK can be very powerful, and on the contrary those extra knives are your best weapon against group combat as they are Jason’s only ranged attack, and also 100% unpunishable. There are also combos you can do with them which makes them very valuable for combat overall, and deal as much dmg on their own as a +Weapon Str slash (30).
In regards to -Defence, I am releasing a guide later today which will prove without a doubt that the only difference between Base Def and -Def is lower HP. Approx 10 less health, exactly the same as J9’s Less HP. There is no such thing as block chance / block chance is always 100%. Other than -Def, Roy has no real weaknesses.

Which would make the player count under 1500. Not a good number for the game by any means. I can personally say that on PS4 in Australia the game is virtually dead, not that it ever took off here but the local playerbase has flatlined. I am mostly playing internationals, hosting when I can or joining US lobbies (which royally sucks for ping eg. 500ms). Like I've said before, I am putting up some final guides (likely tomorrow) then I am out, other than some competitive matches I have lined up. Maybe some on PC when I have it ready too but I don't imagine many. The game has simply come to an end. There are more asym games coming out which I would rather invest time into.
I hesitate even at the prospect of putting any time into guides at this stage, but I promised some so I'd like to fulfill it (unlike our little Gun Media).

@SirMang Nothing wrong with trolling a bad Jason player. It is all part of the fun. If anything that experience will single-handedly encourage them to get better, more than any other reason. In which case you are providing them with the right motivation to improve their gameplay. The true fans of the game will do their best to improve, while the rest simply come to complain on the forum looking for balance handouts or ego stroking.
I will admit that Jason is the true underdog of the game in high level play, but that is no excuse not to do your best to overcome said imbalance. Even with just a little bit of practice and knowledge, you can overcome majority of QP lobbies, since they are so wildly varied in skill. It is the coordinated teams / kill squads you need to put in the work to defeat.