Fear aggressive Pit Bulls

Nobody has ever really even grabbed at my little super friendly cute fluffer dog and we're out in public a lot. People will approach sometimes but nobody runs at us, if I wanted to keep them away I easily could. I can't even imagine random strangers insisting on patting my dog despite me telling them not to and me not being able to easily just...turn around and walk the other way. I guess a regional thing too.

Occasionally we will see people who want to touch the dogs while just out on a walk, but most of the run up to and/grab the dog incidents have occurred in places where I'd expect it anyway. Pet stores, drive in movies, festivals, farmers markets, and fairs are places I take Jack because he doesn't care if he is being grabbed at and often welcomes it. At the county fair one year a kid just walked up, grabbed handfuls of Jack's face skin on either did of his head, and just walked away...

Once at PETsMART a little boy ran right up and started petting Jack, face to face with him. The mother came running up apologizing, and said to her son "You don't ever run up to strange dogs--always ask before you pet them! But that dogs a chocolate lab so that's ok."

This doesn't mean that it is OK for people to behave like that, I just expect people to be idiots around dogs and assume that all dogs want to be touched.

I guess my asshole give is really big, or my dogs are not that cute ... Or it's a little of both lol, because most parents stop their kids from approaching before they can even get close to us ... Maybe it's because they think Josefina is some kind of coyote hybrid lol

With Izze it was I think because of her creepy intense way she would eye people xD ... I swear she did it just to freak people out.

Is this the dog in your signature? He definitely has a fearful look in his eyes... I've met just a few Pit Bulls who were that way (out of COUNTLESS over the top happy Pit Bulls). Very nervy and quick to become defensive, and they had really nice owners. One was a bait dog, completely earless and scarred up, who showed that she was a really sweet dog after her very dedicated owner spent years working with her. I also know a wonderful, amazing Pit Bull owner who shows/works her dogs and has several rescues - including a little white girl, who is scarred from fighting and mange, but super cute. However, that dog is a walking timebomb. She took a chunk out of my co-worker's thigh for letting her guard down around her, she was walking to the other side of the playroom! That dog scares me, truly, but her owner is dedicated to managing her for life and I respect that and trust her to.

I'm glad you're seeing a behaviorist! No one here can tell you what to do with your dog, especially without ever meeting him. I will say this - if there is any question that you can't keep your dog fully contained and keep the public completely safe while undergoing the training process, PERSONALLY I would PTS to protect the public and the breed in general. Leaving him in a backyard unsupervised is not acceptable in my opinion. He should be kept from any strangers, watched with a hawk eye, and handled with absolute care and concern. NO pushy methods, all calm, non-confrontational, positive, and move at a snail's pace with him.

I couldn't handle it if one of my dogs bit me. I don't do anything to them that warrants a bite, but even if I did, I'd expect them to be forgiving. It's very sad when some one's dog bites them and concerning depending on what you were doing to receive the bite.

Honestly Gonzo was like that when I adopted him, he would definitely bite a stranger if they grabbed his collar. He bit a neighbor for no reason at all. He has come a very long way to being a well adjusted, confident dog who is safe with people. Anyone coming over used to be a massive ordeal. Now it's nothing! I highly recommend reading Click to Calm, that really really changed the way I viewed his fear aggression and it made me realize he COULD be a trustworthy dog if I just showed him that the world wasn't scary. I do believe that Gonzo is not well bred and has terrible nerves, but breeding isn't everything.

There is absolutely nothing "rude" about anything I've posted in this thread.

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I LOL'ed so hard.

I love you SS, even though I don't always agree with you. I do respect that you are committed to keeping your breed people friendly!

As far as DA... I wouldn't want a DA dog... that doesn't mean all DA dogs should die! But they should be controlled and managed. Funny how you never heard about Pit Bulls running loose and killing other dogs until you heard about Pit Bulls running loose and hurting people. I believe those are the same dogs, owned and bred and raised by the same morons.

I've had a child run up to Fred and grab his head once. All whilst yelling "can I stoke him!!!!!!!!". She'd obviously been told to ask first... Which she did whilst launching at him.

Luckily he just let her fondle him and I gave her a polite and friendly talk about how she should wait until people say ok or she could get bitten.

Now if that was bodhi.... She's not people aggressive at ALL.... actually she growled at my friend for the first time EEEVVVEEERRRR the other week, which I've never EVER seen before, but circumstances where a lot of people descended onto our home all at once, and this friend is very assertive and loud and went up to stroke her... Bodhi sat in her bed (which is unusual she normally wants to be centre of it to see what's happening) and growled at her. I was shocked, but NO MATTER HOW HUMAN FRIENDLY YOUR DOG IS, ALWAYS BE AWARE ITS POTENTIALLY THERE.... They were best friends later on. Interestingly Fred didn't like her husband either, was quite freaked out by him... But they have 2 cattle dogs at home and I wonder if they smelt funny or something.

Anyway as I was saying... Bodhi has never bitten anyone or shown any aggression (one growl in 8 years aside) yet if a child flung itself at her head I don't think she would be as polite as Fred... You can't be complacent!! I'd never leave her unattended with strange people or kids. Or Fred for that matter.

So glad we don't see people on our walks most of the time!!! People here generally ask before touching your dog anyway as they're rural and more used to strange farm dogs etc. I find it's cities and towns were people are less animal savvy.

I've had a child run up to Fred and grab his head once. All whilst yelling "can I stoke him!!!!!!!!". She'd obviously been told to ask first... Which she did whilst launching at him.

Luckily he just let her fondle him and I gave her a polite and friendly talk about how she should wait until people say ok or she could get bitten.

Now if that was bodhi.... She's not people aggressive at ALL.... actually she growled at my friend for the first time EEEVVVEEERRRR the other week, which I've never EVER seen before, but circumstances where a lot of people descended onto our home all at once, and this friend is very assertive and loud and went up to stroke her... Bodhi sat in her bed (which is unusual she normally wants to be centre of it to see what's happening) and growled at her. I was shocked, but NO MATTER HOW HUMAN FRIENDLY YOUR DOG IS, ALWAYS BE AWARE ITS POTENTIALLY THERE.... They were best friends later on. Interestingly Fred didn't like her husband either, was quite freaked out by him... But they have 2 cattle dogs at home and I wonder if they smelt funny or something.

Anyway as I was saying... Bodhi has never bitten anyone or shown any aggression (one growl in 8 years aside) yet if a child flung itself at her head I don't think she would be as polite as Fred... You can't be complacent!! I'd never leave her unattended with strange people or kids. Or Fred for that matter.

So glad we don't see people on our walks most of the time!!! People here generally ask before touching your dog anyway as they're rural and more used to strange farm dogs etc. I find it's cities and towns were people are less animal savvy.

If it's something out of the ordinary for your specific dog I don't see any reason NOT to be shocked. Acting like Dizzy is being unreasonable for being surprised that her normally affable dog growled is kind of crappy.

I often am shocked when Murphy hangs out downstairs when we have company. I would be also be shocked if he growled at company when they approached to pet him, it's just not normal behavior for him. I would expect company to respect the growl, but I would still be shocked and you can bet I would investigate the why.

Of course I was shocked, I was mortified!!!!! In 8 years she has never said "not right now" to anyone ever. So yes, of course I was shocked. As you can see from my post, I'm pretty certain why it happened, but that doesn't make it any less surprising as it's not like she's never had people come in our house before, or any other plethora of houses for that matter.

The point is no matter how trustworthy your dog is, and no matter how many times it has been in a situation (Bodhi used to come to raves with me. And I'm not talking what today's youth call raves, I'm talking proper raves, she's well socialised with weird loud people) and no matter how chilled out your dog is in those situations THINGS CAN CHANGE. You can't be complacent. I was, but imagine if the person saying hello didn't understand dogs (she has 2 thankfully) and persisted saying hello to her?!

Do I expect Bodhi to growl again at anyone?? No, not really. I think it was a combination of factors on that one night for one. But I think you're missing the point of what I'm saying!

I'm saying dogs are dogs are dogs, and there is always an element of unpredictability, they're not robots and they are FAR more sensitive to unseen signals, body language and energies than we are, and one day a stupidly placid dog (which I'm not claiming Bodhi is by far) could do something you really don't expect.

Of course I was shocked, I was mortified!!!!! In 8 years she has never said "not right now" to anyone ever. So yes, of course I was shocked.

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I would be completely and 110% floored if either of my current dogs EVER growled at someone. Period. Not that they can't growl, or growling would be "inappropriate"....it is just something that neither of them do. It isn't a response I expect from them, and if it ever happened, I would be analyzing the situation seriously to see what sequence of events caused the growl (including my dog's physical and mental health). For my current dogs, growling is not normal and I would not treat it as normal.

But yes, Dizzy is right, a dog is a dog is a dog and they all have their threshold level that can be breached under the right circumstance. Some just have a much, much, much higher threshold than others.

Penn will actually growl at people who are wearing hoods/ can't clearly see their faces& they are hunched over. Especially once the evening hits.
I have never had anyone try to pat her without asking ..I think she has a large personality& that makes people aware. I also think if someone in a hood spooked her, she would snap. I don't think she'd do damage but she is SUPER protective of me& the car.
I would, however, be shocked if she growled in a normal social situation.

Oddly enough, my VERY human aggressive little Yorkie mix, kids/ adults alike would run up to him to pat/ pick him up/ whatever. We ended up not being able to take him places because he would 100% bite& bite to do damage. I have no doubt that if a kid grabbed him, they would end up needing a new face. He does not love people. But his little size makes people think he must be friendly& I've often had parents tell their children (without asking me) to get pet the little dog to see that some dogs are friendly.. poor Squirt. He especially hates kids.

im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you

im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

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IMO the way most people are saying it (and how blackrose already explained it) is that they would be shocked to hear their dog growl because it's out of character for the dog, not saying it would be UNACCEPTABLE if the dog growled, if that makes any sense? I feel like here shocked = surprised, not shocked = dismayed or horrified. Rowan is a grumbler so him growling wouldn't surprise me at all, and Riff growls and barks (mostly barks) at strangers. I would be pretty shocked to hear Riff growl at someone he likes, though, simply because I've never heard him do it before. Doesn't mean that I don't allow him to growl in appropriate situations, if he's stressed/uncomfortable/etc and needs to express it. It would just be very out of character for him. It's like... idk, if my boyfriend told me one day that he desired nothing more than to become an architect. It's not that there's anything WRONG with that, but it came out of left field and would definitely shock me!

I don't think my mom's old dog growled at a person his whole life. I would have been shocked to hear him growl because he was SO tolerant and easygoing. That does not mean, in any way, that he was ever mistreated or deliberately put into uncomfortable situations! It's just... if you accidentally run into Rowan, he'll give a little growl. Baxter never did. It just wasn't his natural reaction. Some dogs are so complacent that it doesn't even seem to occur to them to growl. In the right situation, of course they would, but a dog with a very very high threshold? The owner would probably be surprised.

Unfortunately I know there are people out there who think that growling is unacceptable, but I'd say the vast majority of people here don't believe that.

im pretty horrified and dismayed by all the people who would be "shocked" and dumbfounded if their dogs growled, at anyone, for any reason. you are basically saying that you would be SHOCKED if your dog expressed an opinion, a desire, a thing that is not mindlessly accepting any and all treatment or situation thrown their way

do you want a dog, or do you want a robot? easygoing is one thing. saying you would be SHOCKED if your dog said "no thank you" to ANYTHING is, quite frankly, ****ing bullshit. its not a furry stuffed animal. its not a robot. your dog has every right to tell somebody, even you "not now please" or "id like it if you didnt do that". that doesnt mean you dont get the right to sometimes insist "i understand, and im very sorry but this must happen" but saying you would be shocked and floored that your dog dare to have a thought that wasnt complacent and accepting is grossly unfair, to your animal, and to its relationship to you

Because the dog hasn't ever growled (and it'd be rare if it did!) doesn't mean that the dog is a robot, doesn't have an opinion or has a high tolerance level. There just must be nothin' to growl at! And when the day came that the dog did get upset about something it normally wouldn't....they would be shocked. It's not that shocking. If my husband always happily ate his egg sandwiches for breakfast and one day flipped out and yelled at me for making him an egg sandwich instead of pancakes --- I'd be shocked and dumbfounded!! But then I'd ask him why and life would carry on.

Growling doesn't have to be the only way a dog says "no thank you." If you watch dog-dog interaction there are often many steps before even showing teeth is involved, never mind growling and certainly before biting.

Being surprised if a dog jumps several warning signs and goes straight to growling, or even biting, doesn't mean expecting the dog to be a robot or to be entirely complacent. It just means expecting the dog to exhibit normal patterns of behavior, for that dog in particular or the species as a whole, and being surprised when the dog doesn't behave as per usual.

As it happens I believe the whole "dogs are not robots" thing is a point already made in this conversation. That doesn't mean you can't still be surprised when something behaves out of the norm. Even if we WERE talking about machines, if you went out to start your car that has started on the first turn of the key for five years, and then it just didn't start one morning... wouldn't you be surprised?