Personally I find the most interesting point here is how much even such a "subtle" processing (I mean most analog stuff has much more phase distortion happening down there and even converters add those) influenced our perception. And its very dependent on our personal monitoring how this things are perceived: on a nearfield setup you would maybe hear it like less highs, on a full range monitoring it may sound more like added lows, while on a more phase accurate one it sounds more like somewhat detached lows (which often sound like more lows and sometimes even like more clear lows, because of the detachment). So, a good possibilty to test the accuraty of your monitoring setup.
We have done those kind of test in the past and its always very interesting how different things sound on different speakers and for different people. Whats time smearing to one is just full lows to another...

I dont know which plug ins Wim used in his test. But the TDR Nova without any engaged bands nearly nulls (>90dB) with the files PLUG_1 and _2.
I have also test it with the VST Analyser where you can see the simple DC-filter we might hear in those files.
I tried to talk to Fabien about it in the past and have also ask if it could be made a switchable feature instead (as it always annoys me while testing Nova), but never got any reply.

That's because this feature always existed and is clearly mentioned in the manual. A feature.

Nova, by default, uses a small, intentional nonlinearity which in turn depends on DC filtering. You can turn it off by choosing a quality mode having a "-" suffix. Then it's perfectly linear.

Nova GE is the one for grown ups. The free one doesn't offer this option.

I doubt 1 and 2 was Nova. In 1 and 2, HF gets attenuated a lot, much like a naively "oversampling" plugin (unlike Nova). but who knows.

Can you pls try the "-" modes instead, as the manual says that the default modes use a nonlinearity? It's intentional, quite useful while mixing/tracking (esp. simple monophonic instruments). Turn it off if you don't like.

This non linearity is there to support what the dynamics modules tends to damage too much in action (the harmonic interaction between bands). It's only on by in the "+" modes. Try "-" for a best comparison to any other EQ.

"-" modes are perfect clean. That's why there are there, for mastering

All this doesn't relate to Nyquist filters. You hear a saturation "feature".

Edit: The option can be found under the quality dropdown (where you set ECO/PRECISE/INSANE). Only the GE has this option. I asked for an analogue ref to make clear that any analogue tool also cuts DC and slightly saturates the LF region (much more than nova does). That's why its been added in Nova: It often offers a sonic advantage on simple sources.

That's because this feature always existed and is clearly mentioned in the manual. A feature.

Nova, by default, uses a small, intentional nonlinearity which in turn depends on DC filtering. You can turn it off by choosing a quality mode having a "-" suffix. Then it's perfectly linear.

Nova GE is the one for grown ups. The free one doesn't offer this option.

I doubt 1 and 2 was Nova. In 1 and 2, HF gets attenuated a lot, much like a naively "oversampling" plugin (unlike Nova). but who knows.

As I said above, a feature not a bug But wtf really read manuals... :D
But in fact it was one of the reason I never bought the GE after testing the free version (as you do not offer another option to demo your stuff). So, adding this "nonlinearity" was a bad business move from my point of view and I still not really understand the why...

So, adding this "nonlinearity" was a bad business move from my point of view and I still not really understand the why...

Indeed. We liked this effect on certain sources, so we decided to indirectly use this as form of copy protection. Maybe not the best idea, as it obviously leads to misunderstandings. But now we have active sessions waiting for recall, so we don't touch it.

FYI, the mechanism is essentially a saturating DC killer. In some sense, the DC part doesn't get attenuated, it gets saturated to replace most of the lost "fullness" with low order harmonics.

Can you pls try the "-" modes instead, as the manual says that the default modes use a nonlinearity? It's intentional, quite useful while mixing/tracking (esp. simple monophonic instruments). Turn it off if you don't like.

This non linearity is there to support what the dynamics modules tends to damage too much in action (the harmonic interaction between bands). It's only on by in the "+" modes. Try "-" for a best comparison to any other EQ.

"-" modes are perfect clean. That's why there are there, for mastering

All this doesn't relate to Nyquist filters. You hear a saturation "feature".

Edit: The option can be found under the quality dropdown (where you set ECO/PRECISE/INSANE). Only the GE has this option. I asked for an analogue ref to make clear that any analogue tool also cuts DC and slightly saturates the LF region (much more than nova does). That's why its been added in Nova: It often offers a sonic advantage on simple sources.

thnx Fabian, glad I posted, but also feel I should apologize on my initial response ... way to busy to follow all updates etc. Updated to the latest version and now I have these extra "-" options which really make the difference .. thnx , now a new start with NOVA/GE ))

No worries, I think it's a perfectly valid concern. As said above, the placement of this "feature" wasn't exactly our wisest choice. But I assumed this was known, as it's been intensely discussed in the early new product alert thread.

I'll add a note to the standard edition's page.
Edit: You can set the quality as needed and then right click the preset bar selecting "save as default preset". It should prevent any issues in the future.

thnx Fabian, glad I posted, but also feel I should apologize on my initial response ... way to busy to follow all updates etc. Updated to the latest version and now I have these extra "-" options which really make the difference .. thnx , now a new start with NOVA/GE ))

When the Sonnox Dynamic EQ was released a while back some TDR Nova fans came out praising the Sonnox on GS - and at the same time being critical of Nova's sound.

Wonder if some of these could unknowingly have done what inlinenl did?

Now that the dust has settled a bit has anyone been able to compare these two Dyn EQs?

I dont know which plug ins Wim used in his test. But the TDR Nova without any engaged bands nearly nulls (>90dB) with the files PLUG_1 and _2.
I have also test it with the VST Analyser where you can see the simple DC-filter we might hear in those files.
I tried to talk to Fabien about it in the past and have also ask if it could be made a switchable feature instead (as it always annoys me while testing Nova), but never got any reply.

Two additional pics to complete my yesterdays measurements.
So, that rasp greyness we could hear in those files, might come from this low level saturation.

No worries, I think it's a perfectly valid concern. As said above, the placement of this "feature" wasn't exactly our wisest choice. But I assumed this was known, as it's been intensely discussed in the early new product alert thread.

I'll add a note to the standard edition's page.
Edit: You can set the quality as needed and then right click the preset bar selecting "save as default preset". It should prevent any issues in the future.

ok, it was in"insane-"mode in my default setting, that's the reason i never heared this aspect.

Amazing products, incredible lack of "sound". the most transparent plugins I know, by far. I sometimes wish there was a way of changing the quality levels of TDR stuff to insane across all of the plugin instances with a click. I often work in precise and then change it to insane for the end or for export.

Last edited by whippoorwill; 4th November 2017 at 02:42 PM..
Reason: clarity