<quoted text>so if you believe God is not real, how did everything come to be?are you telling me you can create a single grain of sand from scratch?no one can look at creation and life and not see the intelligent design woven into it by PURPOSE.GOD does exist.i know that with all my being.if there was no God, nature nor this universe would stay in balance. if there was no God, then we as humans would not have a conscience or a will to connect with that which created us.to say there is no God is to deny ones own self, soul and spirit.and in honesty the only people who deny God are those who don't want God telling them what to do.people who don't want to abide in the 'higher moral standard' authored by God.humans have a flawed natured,so we are not capable of authoring morality.we are not perfect........God is.and i have seen far to many miracles in my life not to recognize that fact.

Prove it's your god that exists.

As for the grain of sand, scientists are able to make it from particles, it's a bit expensive to do though so they prefer not to waste resources. Making it from what we perceive as nothing is also being worked out, no god needed to start it all.

As for morality, you are talking about a sadistic, child killing, warmongering, and brutal deity, and you want to claim that is morality? Sucks to be as hateful as you are.

Then there's the whole impregnating a virgin with himself to have himself sacrificed for creating a plan that required people break the laws he imposed only because he wants people to worship him, then condemn them even when they follow the rules just because they don't believe. That's psychotic.

<quoted text>yes you and i differ.and that is ok.for me, i have to go with God.and i couldn't have a clear conscience if i condoned something i know in my heart and spirit is wrong.same sex is wrong.on so many levels.and i think a person should always stand up for what they believe is right.i don't want to argue, i don't want to hurt anyones feelingsbut i also don't want to compromise my faith and displease God.He put us here for HIS purpose.and i firmly believe when you do right, you do no wrong.it probley will eventually be legal in America, becauase America has and is turning its back on God.which will be the demise of this nation.but the bible already told us what it will be like in the last days of history.and we see that coming to pass.but the good news is, those who love God and abide in His truth, will over come what is on the horizon for mankind.my hope lies in Christ.so with respect i do disagree.

I'm not arguing with you we are having a healthy debate.I don't think I'm going to hell for my opinions, God gave us free will and in doing so the ability to make our own choices. I believe if you believe in the Bible that it is to be used for a guide to his teachings but being a free willed, free thinking person I don't agree with everything in it. Will I be banished to hell for loving thy neighbor, I don't think so. We all sin everyday and I'm sure so do you.How can love between to ppl be a sin?? Again it's not for me to judge anyone as I'm not perfect and only one can judge us,,,if you believe.

<quoted text>Prove it's your god that exists.As for the grain of sand, scientists are able to make it from particles, it's a bit expensive to do though so they prefer not to waste resources. Making it from what we perceive as nothing is also being worked out, no god needed to start it all.As for morality, you are talking about a sadistic, child killing, warmongering, and brutal deity, and you want to claim that is morality? Sucks to be as hateful as you are.Then there's the whole impregnating a virgin with himself to have himself sacrificed for creating a plan that required people break the laws he imposed only because he wants people to worship him, then condemn them even when they follow the rules just because they don't believe. That's psychotic.

<quoted text>you don't get to tell me or anyone that our faith is irrelevant.

I see you're still incapable of reading what others say actually rather than substituting what you thought they said.

I didn't say your faith was totally irrelevant; I said it was irrelevant regarding civil marriage or civil unions. Your religious beliefs are not the basis for laws in the US. Your religious beliefs don't supersede those of others whose beliefs are different than yours.

YELLODOG wrote:

i do get to exercise my religious beliefs. which means i can votei can petition my leaders, i can write letters, i can verbally speak my mind.thats what exercising ones faith means in the constitution.i can live my faith.

Yes, every citizen is guaranteed those same constitutional rights; even gays. However, one of the duties of a constitutional republic like the US is to ensure the rights of minorities are not infringed due to animus by the majority.

YELLODOG wrote:

you don't get to impose your immorality on others either.

Ensuring the constitutional rights of minorities aren't infringed isn't "imposing immorality" upon you; it's rebuking your bigotry and animus against people you dislike.

<quoted text>Not to argue, but if you did not condone premarital sex ( and being a Bible believing Christian that is a fair assumption) would you deny two people who had sex before marriage equal rights?.... Would you back laws preventing premarital sex....The point is the fact that because you do not condone it does not mean you have the right to deny someone their rights. Many people do not condone many legal things, so they do not do them and distance themselves from people who do what they do not condone. BUT they do not deny these people their rights to do what is legal. So fine do not condone it... but do not deny equal rights....Leaving your self thoughts on the subject out of it, as they do not have anything to do with the law, tell me what two people together for 5 years who happen to be a ssc, should enjoy less rights and legal coverage than a couple married 5 minutes

There was a time in history when premarital sex was lawfully prohibited.why do you think God had such harsh punishments in the biblical days for any man who took a womans virginity prior to marriage?

when i attended school in the 60s and 70s abstance was strongly taught in the schools.i think if people did as God designed for us there would be no unwanted pregnancys, no abortions, no veneral deseases.but we live in the latter times of history and like the days of sodom and gomorrah people have turned their backs on God.and thus are reaping a whole lot of bad stuff because of it.

as for me denying anyones right to 'sin' is impossible.no one can keep anyone from opperating in sexual immorality if they are so inclined.BUT what you don't seem to understand is that society is comprised of ALL people.and when our governing leaders tell us we are to vote on issues then any tax paying legal aged citizen can do just that.

how is 'verbally' stating my opposition to SSM restricting anyones right to be gay?

<quoted text>Prove it's your god that exists.As for the grain of sand, scientists are able to make it from particles, it's a bit expensive to do though so they prefer not to waste resources. Making it from what we perceive as nothing is also being worked out, no god needed to start it all.As for morality, you are talking about a sadistic, child killing, warmongering, and brutal deity, and you want to claim that is morality? Sucks to be as hateful as you are.Then there's the whole impregnating a virgin with himself to have himself sacrificed for creating a plan that required people break the laws he imposed only because he wants people to worship him, then condemn them even when they follow the rules just because they don't believe. That's psychotic.

there is only ONE God.and if scientist can use 'particles' to make a grain of sand, where did the particles come from?my point is that originally everything in creation, including life came from ONE origin.

and how i know there is a God is because1. EVERY CREATION MUST have a Creator. nothing makes itself.2. The fact a single cell of life alone is mapped out with many components of DNA and other things that direct the path of that cells growth into a SPECIFIC and DETAILED species.3. the glory of creation, the design in everything. the complexed and unique design.4. if our earth was any closer or father from the sun we could not exist, gravity, the perfect blend of air to breath, the perfect blend of water to sustain all life and vegitation. the exact order of things, a 24 hr day, seasons, nature in it's balance.... this was no accident.5. the ancient scriptures fulfill themself accurately6. miracles and healings you can't explain away7. from the creation of mankind he has known there is a God8. even the rocks cry out in testimony of God....archealogists are forever discovering biblical truths.9. man can not create anything from scratch.10. the unmistakable presence of God when He makes Himself known in the heart and lives of people everyday.

<quoted text>There was a time in history when premarital sex was lawfully prohibited.why do you think God had such harsh punishments in the biblical days for any man who took a womans virginity prior to marriage?when i attended school in the 60s and 70s abstance was strongly taught in the schools.i think if people did as God designed for us there would be no unwanted pregnancys, no abortions, no veneral deseases.but we live in the latter times of history and like the days of sodom and gomorrah people have turned their backs on God.and thus are reaping a whole lot of bad stuff because of it.as for me denying anyones right to 'sin' is impossible.no one can keep anyone from opperating in sexual immorality if they are so inclined.BUT what you don't seem to understand is that society is comprised of ALL people.and when our governing leaders tell us we are to vote on issues then any tax paying legal aged citizen can do just that.how is 'verbally' stating my opposition to SSM restricting anyones right to be gay?

The government has also changed it's tune on illegal drugs which now can be purchased as they now have found out that there are health benefits to them such as pot..

I respect your stance and believes in the Bible and what it stands for in your eyes but it was written in another time and times are a changing, be it good or bad.... We the ppl now have a more open mind to things that use to be considered bad, or go against our teachings of God and the Bible.I'm a live and let live kind of person. If you're not out there hurting others it's not for me to judge your lifestyle choices..

<quoted text> I'm not arguing with you we are having a healthy debate.I don't think I'm going to hell for my opinions, God gave us free will and in doing so the ability to make our own choices. I believe if you believe in the Bible that it is to be used for a guide to his teachings but being a free willed, free thinking person I don't agree with everything in it.Will I be banished to hell for loving thy neighbor, I don't think so.We all sin everyday and I'm sure so do you.How can love between to ppl be a sin??Again it's not for me to judge anyone as I'm not perfect and only one can judge us,,,if you believe.

i agree with you in the fact there is nothing wrong with loving people, we are suppose to.BUT love and sex are two seperate issues.my point would be that God didn't go to all that trouble giving His word to prophets to record for mankind for us to just gloss over and not take serious.

yes everyone sins.and no one is perfect.but when we are redeemed for our sins... we don't desire to do those things we did before we accepted Jesus as our Lord and Savior.

<quoted text>I see you're still incapable of reading what others say actually rather than substituting what you thought they said.I didn't say your faith was totally irrelevant; I said it was irrelevant regarding civil marriage or civil unions. Your religious beliefs are not the basis for laws in the US. Your religious beliefs don't supersede those of others whose beliefs are different than yours.<quoted text>Yes, every citizen is guaranteed those same constitutional rights; even gays. However, one of the duties of a constitutional republic like the US is to ensure the rights of minorities are not infringed due to animus by the majority.<quoted text>Ensuring the constitutional rights of minorities aren't infringed isn't "imposing immorality" upon you; it's rebuking your bigotry and animus against people you dislike.

DUH.you just danced around it again.you are saying a persons faith is irrelvant in making decisions that effect society as a whole.

why aren't you venting all this hype out to your governement leaders they are the ones telling each state we should vote on it.

<quoted text> The government has also changed it's tune on illegal drugs which now can be purchased as they now have found out that there are health benefits to them such as pot..I respect your stance and believes in the Bible and what it stands for in your eyes but it was written in another time and times are a changing, be it good or bad.... We the ppl now have a more open mind to things that use to be considered bad, or go against our teachings of God and the Bible.I'm a live and let live kind of person. If you're not out there hurting others it's not for me to judge your lifestyle choices..

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