"The Muppets" What were you half expecting

I've noticed that sometimes studios give the directors and writers more creative control if their names are big enough. If they're smaller names just starting up, they put the hammer down on them. That's why Rango and Speed Racer got away with some very PG-13 cussing (Speed Racer even had a flipped bird, something you can't even show on Family Guy) in a PG movie. Big names behind them.

Any meddling was from the Muppet people, and their "meddling" actually punched up quite a few of the concepts from the original script, even making them better (Kermit's housing situation). Any studio meddling was probably just editing the movie down.

But if you think about it, Rizzo's first big movie was MTM. Even in GMC he was basically a background character that had one line in a song.

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Rizzo also spoke the line "That's okay, there's no food either" when Kermit points out there's no phone to call room service to order food (and says "alright" when one of the rats says "come on, Rizzo!"). I think Rizzo also gets out an "And me!" during the finale, though I can't tell if it's him or a different rat.

I talked about how I was expecting more pictures of Muppets in "Pictures in my Head". But in addition to thinking there shoulld have been pictures/verses with Rowlf, Scooter, Bunsen and Beaker, and maybe Sam the Eagle and Sweetums, I think there should have been a section of several small pictures, showcasing many of the other characters, I'm thinking Link Hogthrob, Dr. Strangepork, Thog, Wayne and Wanda, Nigel, Bobby Benson, Marvin Suggs and the Muppaphones, Rizzo and the rats, Beauregard, Pops, maybe Lips, maybe The Mutations, maybe Pepe, and maybe Clifford, Johnny Fiama and Sal, Big Mean Carl, and Bean Bunny.

I was also sort of expecting Gary to be a bigger Muppet fan than he appears in the movie, maybe not as much as Walter, but still a bit bigger. I was also kind of expecting either Mary or Gary to not be a big fan of the Muppets, only supportive because of Walter (or Mary supportive because of Gary). I was expectign Mary to be more concerned about Gary's Muppet fandom taking his attention away from her (as opposed to Gary spending so much time with Walter). Actually, if Mary wasn't a fan of the Muppets and felt Gary cared more about Muppets than her, her "Are you a man or a Muppet?" question would have made a bit more sense.

And when I saw the first trailer, when I saw the part from the fantasy sequence from Mary's verse of "Life's a Happy Song", when Gary put his hand behind his back to give her flowers, I had expected him to hand her some Muppet merchandise instead (which would have been funnier).

Actually, if Mary wasn't a fan of the Muppets and felt Gary cared more about Muppets than her, her "Are you a man or a Muppet?" question would have made a bit more sense.

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I agree, that would have brought it all together. But I despise the all too common storyline of the stick in the mud girlfriend who scolds the boyfriend for liking Science Fiction or the Muppets. Why would anyone in their right mind even want that kind of person as their girlfriend? It's insulting to all the girls in the audience who ARE big Sci Fi or Muppet fans. It's just another form of sexism in the movies.

I talked about how I was expecting more pictures of Muppets in "Pictures in my Head". But in addition to thinking there shoulld have been pictures/verses with Rowlf, Scooter, Bunsen and Beaker, and maybe Sam the Eagle and Sweetums, I think there should have been a section of several small pictures, showcasing many of the other characters, I'm thinking Link Hogthrob, Dr. Strangepork, Thog, Wayne and Wanda, Nigel, Bobby Benson, Marvin Suggs and the Muppaphones, Rizzo and the rats, Beauregard, Pops, maybe Lips, maybe The Mutations, maybe Pepe, and maybe Clifford, Johnny Fiama and Sal, Big Mean Carl, and Bean Bunny.

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I'm on the fence about that. On the one hand, I think the song could have been maybe a verse longer or something, but on the other hand, how many characters added would make the scene gratuitous? It's no surprise there's a pacing/runtime issue with the movie and at least one song was halved... the Tex Richman anthem that could have only improved the movie. But I do think the main point got across with "Pictures in my Head" and it probably didn't need all that much more to it.

I agree, that would have brought it all together. But I despise the all too common storyline of the stick in the mud girlfriend who scolds the boyfriend for liking Science Fiction or the Muppets. Why would anyone in their right mind even want that kind of person as their girlfriend? It's insulting to all the girls in the audience who ARE big Sci Fi or Muppet fans. It's just another form of sexism in the movies.

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I think it's more an issue of female characters wanting the male characters to grow up. And unfortunately, I heard a LOT of cases where this is a sad reality. I once was on a M.U.S.C.L.E. board where, while the couple fell in love through Kinnikuman, the guy started to have to sneak in new collectibles after a while. It's not uncommon that in a couple like that, one partner likes something and the other partner is obsessed to an annoying degree with it.

But then again, I see what Minor Muppetz is saying. However, I never thought of Gary being the fan Walter was. When Walter discovered the show it seems he found a bunch of kindred spirits because, while he was constantly accepted as a member of the family, it was only later until he realized that he was different. That fandom was more than just an obsession with the show, and more like a sign that he was meant for something else... he just never explored it. His pleasant nightmare seemed to say, the only thing stopping Walter from joining them was himself.

Gary's fandom is different. He loves the show, but seems to love it just a little more as one of the few things he can bond over with his brother. Especially the fact that his brother completely lights up watching the show. It's not that Gary wouldn't watch the show without Walter, in fact, I'd almost say Gary got Walter into it. But it seems that Gary isn't looking out for the Muppets as much as Gary is looking out for his brother.

The jealousy Mary has isn't from the Muppets, but the fact that Gary is spending more time with Walter, who was invited as a favor. Like if someone is going to Florida with someone (like a significant other) for some reason (to visit relatives) and lets you tag along because you wanted to go to Disney World, and this was your only opportunity. Because none of the trio could have expected the Muppet Studio to be in trouble, Gary had a LOT of plans with Mary, and Walter would just go to see the Muppet Studio... maybe a couple other sights, and spend the time Gary and Mary want to be alone at the hotel room watching TV. Mary seems upset because she was the reason they went to California, but it turned out to be all about Walter. While she did care about helping Walter and the Muppets at first, she became the third wheel instead of Walter. Meanwhile, Gary is torn between his brother and Mary. It's all about Gary, the over protective older sibling, letting go of his brother who happens to be where he belongs. Mary's fandom doesn't enter into that. I assume she likes it to a slightly lesser extent than Gary.

I think it's more an issue of female characters wanting the male characters to grow up.

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It should be that, but just as often it's just there to show that the boyfriend is a "geek" and the girlfried is "cool." And as a woman who is definitely more of a geek in her interests, that really annoys me, lol.

Why would anyone in their right mind even want that kind of person as their girlfriend?

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Maybe because she's hot......

Though when I was wondering if she'd be concerned about Gary's Muppet fandom, I didn't think Mary would be a "stick-in-the-mud". Her attitude regarding her jealousy of Walter is pretty much how I would have expected her attitude to be if she was jealous of the Muppets.

THAT would have been more clever than Statler and Waldorf saving the theater.

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Would it have been? I don't know, briging this new guy in and he saves the theater? I would have loved to have Staler and Waldorf save the Muppet Theater when they would realize they'll have no one to heckle if the theater is torn down

When I saw clips from Kermit's big speech at the end in the trailers, when there are many characters, I expected a lot more characters to be there, just off-camera (mainly past the left of the screen). One of the later trailers showed a shot from that scene where there were a few more characters (like Trumpet Girl and that Grover-looking monster from a Meeting Film and Sing-Along Video), but those characters weren't to the right or left (I think they were blocked by Kermit or someone). We didn't really see past the right or left of that screen... All those articles mentioning that it has "every Muppet you can think of" and "100-150 characters appear" (I wonder if they were counting rebuilt puppets, because the number of characters I saw who weren't in the trailers was few... I know, others could be in deleted scenes, or maybe they forgot some characters).

The one classic character I am most surprised about who I didn't see show up is Pops. I'd expect many fans to know of him (he was in every episode in the last season and was heavily featured in The Great Muppet Caper). He showed up in Letters to Santa back in 2008, and appeared again in the OK Go Muppet Show Theme music video (and behind-the-scenes videos), so I guess he was in working condition then (it would be interesting if they'd rebuilt him right after the movie).

I wonder if the "every Muppet character you can think of" comment in interviews was really "every Muppet we can think of". Though I honestly don't think it's far-fetched for casual fans to know of George the Janitor, Mildred, Hilda, Timmy, Doglion, Mean Mama, Boppity, Gloat, Gladys, Louis Kazagger, JP Grosse, the talking houses, or Annie Sue (decided not to list any JHH or MT characters here). Fans may not know the names or personalities of all those characters, and today's kids might not know many of them, but I think those who grew up with the Muppets and saw The Muppet Show, movies, and TV specials would recall seeing some of them. The first season characters would be recognized by those who saw the first season episodes, Annie Sue was on the show quite a bit in later seasons (even if her personality wasn't developed much after her first few major appearances), Louis Kazagger had a prominient cameo in one of the movies, and most of those monsters popped up quite a bit on the show (and Timmy was in the opening... While I don't think casual fans would notice every Muppet in the opening, I'd like to think they'd remember all the big monsters in the opening).

Also interesting that the movie doesn't really have any "one-shot" characters, like Angus McGonacle, the Java Muppets, or the Hugga Wugga Muppets (I don't consider Mahna Mahna and the Snowths "one-shot").

Thinking of obscure character recognizability here reminds me of a time in the Ask Ken at Palisades thread when somebody asked about the chances if a number of characters becoming action figures and Ken Lilly doubting any of the ones asked about would become figures (and none of them did). I thought it was odd that he thought they were too obscure. I was of the mindset that some casual fans would recognize them somehow (and was also hoping that casual fans who regularly bought the figures would eventually buy every character in the line).

One thing I was kind of expecting was when the Muppets were going around trying to pitch their telethon, one of the things they'd do is sing a "cool island song" to melt the network executives' icy hearts, all of them wearing funky fruit hats.

(referencing the "Free Hat" episode of South Park. )

But seriously, I was thinking that, from what I've read of a review of one of the early drafts by someone at Aintitcoolnews, the film would open with two (humanoid) Muppet executives introducing the film, explaining that the movie was intended to bring the Muppets back for a new generation. I agree with the person that this opening would not have made any sense had they gone with it (because as we all know, it's not like the Muppets needed to be brought back, as they've been active for the past 2 decades), but then I thought, if they decided to start the film this way, would they use Leo and Grump as the executives?

I was also expecting that, during the flashback to Tex's 10th birthday party, had it remained intact, we'd see Kermit, Rowlf, and a whole bunch of other 60s-early 70s era Muppets like Beautiful Day Monster, Thog, Snerfs, Tamenilla, Yorick, Wilkins and Wontkins, Southern Colonel.....heck, even a Sesame Street character or two (or four, or five...but for legal reasons, they'd have to be blurred out, yet still easy to recognize)

Maybe Walter buys it with the money he makes form his whistling skills... on a similar note. Isn't there somehting in the books about what Walter and Gary do for living...I don't know I get this feeling that that was suppossed to be more important somehow.