Y'all know my position on this is that the government shouldn't recognize anybody's marriage, but the accidental pregnancy is the one argument I can't disagree with in favor of marriage.Science shows us that married couples do a better job of raising kids. Probably a result of the fact that they don't want to put the kid through a divorce, so wait until he's out of the house. So, giving people who have kids a financial incentive to get married is a good thing.

That said, there's no reason some dumbass who finds herself pregnant and unmarried couldn't decide to shotgun marry another woman as a means of attaining that stability. Gets a little more convoluted for gay men, but could still feasibly happen.

I'm always a little confused on how their arguments against gay marriage invoke the "children" angle so much. Since when has bearing children ever factored into legal marriage for anyone?I have a female friend who lost her ability to bear children when she was very young. Should she similarly be banned from marrying?

Endive Wombat:My reaction now almost every time a member of the GOP speaks:[img.photobucket.com image 220x157]

Seriously. I'm not sure which is worse -- that there are people that thing up these sorts of things to say or that there are many many more people that will lap it up and vote straight ticket R next time around because they think attitudes like this are normal and should be encouraged.

And that post-menopausal women can't marry, as well as any man for whom Viagra/Cialis/Levitra don't work (or they're already on BP/heart meds and so can't take them). And that infertile women (genetic or hysterectomied) and men can't get married.

Basically, it's like he's never critically thought about the position he's now arguing as a matter of law - most of us abandoned that position the first time someone asked "What about Grandma? Is she not allowed to find a new love in her 70s?"

kid_icarus:I'm always a little confused on how their arguments against gay marriage invoke the "children" angle so much. Since when has bearing children ever factored into legal marriage for anyone?I have a female friend who lost her ability to bear children when she was very young. Should she similarly be banned from marrying?

I've known people, up here in Ontario, for whom the answer would be a reluctant yes, weighted by a occasional "well, God might provide a miracle, so I guess it's ok?"

kid_icarus:I'm always a little confused on how their arguments against gay marriage invoke the "children" angle so much. Since when has bearing children ever factored into legal marriage for anyone?I have a female friend who lost her ability to bear children when she was very young. Should she similarly be banned from marrying?

It's because they just don't like gays, but they know they can't say they so they come up with a reason. Right if that was the actual reason they should also try to ban everyone who can't have kids from getting married but they don't care about others, just gays.

Clement added in his brief to the Supreme Court arguing to uphold that law that the government has a legitimate interest in solely recognizing marriages between men and women because it encourages them to form stable family units.

Perhaps he should explain why recognizing marriages between same sex couples would DIScourge men and women from forming stable family units?

"So what about straight infertile couples?" is always the next question, to which the fundie will state that that is different, because they aren't gay.

That would be and my wife. Although we weren't necessarily "infertile", we just lost 2 babies around the 3 month mark. two separate times. We gave up after that, very hard on the heart and mind. We are both over 40 now and don't plan on trying again. Guess we should nullify our marriage then.

So because homosexuals can not have children w/o someone interfering with the way god has arranged things, it means that gays can't marry. That's just *so* smart and original. I bet no one has tried that line of argument before becuase otherwise we would have closed this debate by now...

Almighty God created the races white, black, yellow, malay and red, and he placed them on separate continents. And but for the interference with his arrangement there would be no cause for such marriages. The fact that he separated the races shows that he did not intend for the races to mix.-Leon Bazil, Judge (Loving v. Virigina)