Carnacki wrote:But that's more of a muscle memory change, no? It's ingrained in us to use it (which I still mess up on) but after we use it for awhile, it'll become easier.

Muscle memory is the reason I have an extremely hard time getting into new games post-WoW, especially if the controls are more complex. 18 years of muscle memory between EQ1 and WoW using very similar layouts, it's not easy to change.

Carnacki wrote:But that's more of a muscle memory change, no? It's ingrained in us to use it (which I still mess up on) but after we use it for awhile, it'll become easier.

Muscle memory is the reason I have an extremely hard time getting into new games post-WoW, especially if the controls are more complex. 18 years of muscle memory between EQ1 and WoW using very similar layouts, it's not easy to change.

Guh, this. WoW keyboard controls are so absorbed into my brain I have difficulty playing other PC games if I can't customize them to behave in a similar way. All of my WoW characters have their action bars set up very similarly because I have such muscle memory for my hotkeys. My main rotation/damage abilities always have to be on 4, 5, 6 and my interrupt always has to be on 7 etc etc.

Sigrah wrote:As for the garrison gold farming being nerfed, it really needed to happen. I know it's controversial and a bit unpopular, but for alt-o-holics like me, I was literally making 35k to 70k gold a week just for logging each toon in twice a day on most days and sending a bunch of followers with the "Treasure Hunter" trait out to fetch me gold, not to mention the other missions that could be lucrative on top of all that.

Besides, there's still plenty of gold to be made with garrisons atm, you just need to know what to buy with resources and/or what to make with the professions your toons have. Regardless, garrisons becoming obsolete isn't the worst thing. Most things from a given expansion become obsolete when the next one hits anyways.

Oh absolutely, I mean I'm sad to see the massive amounts of easy/easier gold go, but it needed to happen—I was at about 800k when 7.0 hit and I was VERY infrequent with making use of my alts' garrisons (I'm at 850k now, though I'm pretty sure the vast majority of that extra 50k was vendoring eleven characters' worth of hoarded transmog, lol); the only reason I was able to afford the Grand Expedition Yak back in MoP was because a guildmate quit and sent me like 70k gold. In classic I often had to go farm for an hour after raids to be able to pay for repairs, and when TBC came out I was on a MISSION to get 280% flight ASAP because I wanted the netherdrakes so badly, but I've never really been super "goblinny" when it came to gold making.

The issue I have with the garrison now is that there's nothing really engaging put in its place. I'm picking up GR at an alarming clip on my main (and a marginally less alarming clip on the alts that still log in daily for profession cooldowns) and can flip that into profession mats and items if I choose to, but... I don't know. My shipyard is all Sorcerous Fire and Apexis Crystals, the missions themselves are follower experience and garrison resources and if I'm SUPER lucky, the weekly 675 mission for something that isn't a satchel of the void or some archaeology fragments, the salvage yard crates are more garrison resources with a chance at a five copper vendor item or some profession mats, and even the pet battle dailies took a hit because for one of the very first times in PvE ever, a currency is crossing expansion borders and keeping the WoD dailies at 7-9 pet charms each would have meant people felt obligated to keep doing them. And all of that is totally fine and understandable and will put the garrison on par with Sunsong Ranch when Legion actually hits!

The problem is... Legion hasn't actually hit yet, nor have the invasions, nor have Demon Hunters. The only part of the pre-expansion event that's hit has been the Doomsayers in the major cities, and most people I know (myself included) killed themselves upwards of 30-50 times the first day they were available to knock that out of the way (and if we hadn't it would just have involved tabbing into the game every 20 minutes instead, not exactly enthralling gameplay to be found there). Once you've run as many old instances as you can stomach on as many characters as you can stand and/or gotten your raid for the week out of the way (or farmed your rep, or whatever last minute pre-Legion chores you're involved in), there's not a whole lot to do, or reason to log in. It's only been a week and a half since the patch and I've been keeping myself entertained in-game between instance caps by setting up unique spec-specific transmog for all 3-4 specs across my 44 remaining characters (oh god, that means I only have 14 non-level capped characters; there's a thought I never wanted to cross my mind) and then rambling about each of them on my tumblr.

And there's gonna be three and a half more weeks of this. Well, maybe a little less because mid-August we'll finally have the invasions and DH both, though at least at the start of the invasions there's still gonna be a lot of sitting on your hands and waiting for them to spawn (and then hoping they're not FFA CRZ PvP extravaganzas; I really wish my guild wasn't still on a PvP server when like 22/23 of the raiding team are carebears, but that's a LOT of money to server transfer so it's never gonna happen unless Korgath dies the way Bloodscalp did). On a prepatch there's usually a lot of excitement at the start and then it dies down and then hypes back up again when the expansion actually comes out; it seems to be going in reverse this time (though I admit there was excitement for transmog and the, uh, "fun" times to be had on mythic Mannoroth that first Tuesday).

Which kind of meandered off my original point; I don't think the Garrisons were ever really EXCITING, at least not on an extended level, but they were SO MUCH of the content that Warlords of Draenor brought to the table that having them be this uninteresting for five weeks while we wait for the next expansion is kind of a huge bummer.

Also, the fact that you can't demolish a building without building something in its place is really annoying, especially now. I don't want a salvage yard anymore because the crates are now on the other side of the time investment:reward excitement ratio, but I also don't want to spend 150 gold (x11) to replace it.

(FWIW, Order Halls feel very much like post-patch Garrisons to me; there are occasional gold missions and they may end up more exciting and/or lucrative when you've got a full cadre of followers at max level/ilvl/whatever the way garrison missions did, but I didn't get to that point before I got so disheartened with the lack of response/change on feedback/bug reports that I stopped logging into beta)

Blizzard should have waited for the actual arrival of Legion to nerf-bat garrisons.
Unlike some of the people here, I don't have toons with hundreds of thousands of gold.
Sure I made gold, but Blizz COULD have waited a month before destroying garrisons and nerfing them into the ground.

I don't think the garrison changes would have bothered me as much had they, let's say" announced that they would come into effect 2 weeks before the actual release of the expansion. At least with those two weeks many people (pre-orders) would have been busy with their Demon Hunters.

But here we're talking about a month and a half. No Demon Hunters yet. Crappy redesign of our classes' abilities. Nothing new (except that crappy redesign) to do. Not even the minimal fun of working your garrison for fun, useful, or remunerative missions.

Sukurachi wrote:Blizzard should have waited for the actual arrival of Legion to nerf-bat garrisons.

Pretty much exactly how I feel. I thought that we'd be having more to do. I knew Legion pre-expansion events would be kicking off/amping up slowly over the weeks leading up to launch, but I didn't think that meant ~2-3 weeks of just Doomsayers npc handing out pamphlets.

I don't disagree with the decision to remove "gold" from being vomited out of the garrisons, but I feel like that change should've came either with the legion invasion events themselves/demon hunter release or the actual launch of the expansion. There's simply boredom right now, unless you're leveling a new alt, then maybe there's something to do lol

We only have a month till the xpac launches, not a month and a half. And whilst I agree that Blizz should've waited till launch or at least the pre-patch events to remove the Garrisom Gold, I do understand why the events haven't started yet.

Blizz could either just launch the class changes and give us a few weeks to adjust to them whilst they work on fixing bugs/glitches with quedts, loot, raids, dungeons, classes, etc... Or they can launch the class changes and the pre-patch events at the same time and have far more bugs/glitches to deal with.

I hate the garrison changes I enjoyed getting gold lol. Now its pretty much worthless.. I wish I had known otherwise I would have sold all my gear upgrades ahead of time too.. now they arent even worth 1g... lets face it once expansion hits most people would be leaving their garrisons anyways so not sure why they decided to change that now when there isnt much to do at all besides leveling gnome hunters..

sasrei7 wrote:I hate the garrison changes I enjoyed getting gold lol. Now its pretty much worthless.. I wish I had known otherwise I would have sold all my gear upgrades ahead of time too.. now they arent even worth 1g... lets face it once expansion hits most people would be leaving their garrisons anyways so not sure why they decided to change that now when there isnt much to do at all besides leveling gnome hunters..

Its not worthless if you have a bunch of the 200% garrison resource guys. You can bring in a LOT more garrison resources now, and use them to buy herbs and ore, a stack of 200 only costs 4000 resour--- oh...

Quiv wrote:Its not worthless if you have a bunch of the 200% garrison resource guys. You can bring in a LOT more garrison resources now, and use them to buy herbs and ore, a stack of 200 only costs 4000 resour--- oh...

Why not? That's what I'm doing with all of mine on Sumptuous Fur. It's getting force fed to my Tailor so I can keep making Hexweave Bags, at least until all 11 (12 starting Aug 9th) have them for every storage slot available

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm doing with mine also, I have 86 and need 132 (4 bag and 7 bank slots for 12 characters). I'm sort of... not really sure I necessarily want to go that far, not because it's expensive but because it's time consuming, and again—the effort put in to reward extracted ratio is a little bit wonky. Everybody has at least their four bag slots and one bank slot with 30-slot bags (including six currently unbound bags sitting in my rogue's bank waiting for the DH), multiple characters are full up, and the ones that have fewer hexweave are mostly still rocking royal satchels (28-slotters). Without the desperate need to hoard transmog, my banks are mostly being used for things I don't want to delete, things that are broken and aren't properly being added to their appropriate collections (Green Holiday Shirt, White Tuxedo Shirt, Primitive Mantle, the heroic Crown of Flame, etc.), things that aren't toys yet but MAY BE IN THE FUTURE (because there's always gotta be something to hoard, I suppose), and any gear that's waiting on a sellback timer before it gets permanently added to the collection and can be gotten rid of, but which isn't vital enough to spend the money to transmog or enchant and remove the timer manually. I'm not sure I'm going to need all that space.

But I suppose I'm not sure I WON'T need all that space, and I know I'm deeply regretting not sticking to my pet battle dailies after I'd purchased all the stuff available for pet charms and had completely upgraded and leveled at least one of every battle pet that I had access to in-game at the time, especially with pet charms essentially halved in collectability from WoD content right now, having 400 stored and needing 1700 to buy all the stuff that launches with Legion, so I guess I'd better just do it, lol :x

I wish I'd played enough of the expansion to enjoy the "too much gold" problem Blizz is trying to fix! I have about 30k on my alliance server and 80k on my horde server. Total. So, yeah, another month of getting the small amount of gold my underpowered garrisons generated would have been nice. I also wish they'd left the garrison pet battles alone until Legion. Maybe I could have gotten more progress on upgrading my battle pets. But, I guess those pamphets are supposed to keep us busy till mid August.... It's my own fault for leaving the game for so long, though.

They really don't want people using old content for current content gains (gold, etc.). I can respect that. You're right that the game is at an unusual lull point right now and it would have been better if they had kept garrisons going a bit longer but it's less clean that way, they need everything up to Legion code and well playtested before the xpac launches. At this point, in the last weeks of an expansion, I usually go back to raid and dungeon achievements, etc., but I feel that this time, for the first time ever, the current state of both my mains is so terribly poor that they're at a level approaching the start of the Warlords and not viable for that. Even Pandaria raids that we have been duo-ing on 25-person mode for the last year or more, we now have to drop back to 10-person. Now that I've processed all my greens for transmog I'm just not logging in for more than a few mins every couple of days.

Quiv wrote:Its not worthless if you have a bunch of the 200% garrison resource guys. You can bring in a LOT more garrison resources now, and use them to buy herbs and ore, a stack of 200 only costs 4000 resour--- oh...

Why not? That's what I'm doing with all of mine on Sumptuous Fur. It's getting force fed to my Tailor so I can keep making Hexweave Bags, at least until all 11 (12 starting Aug 9th) have them for every storage slot available

I got bored with WoD and spent what money I had on heirlooms, so all my characters are dirt poor. Like, they have maybe 500g to their names. On a good day. I am screwed come Legion if stuff costs a ton. But I know that I am the exception rather than the norm.

Signature and avatar created by Serenith!

Slickrock wrote:Given their current trend, we'll probably get a spirit toucan that farts loops.

Sigrah wrote:Why not? That's what I'm doing with all of mine on Sumptuous Fur. It's getting force fed to my Tailor so I can keep making Hexweave Bags, at least until all 11 (12 starting Aug 9th) have them for every storage slot available

Thats actually what I'm doing too I have some barns going too tho.

I'm pretty much still in factory mode, just in a different way and not as intensely. Here's some of what I'm doing with Garrisons right now:

- Continuing a slow burn style liquidation of most of the mats I have in my private guild. Been doing that for a month or so now. Love having the Garrison AH Bot for that, makes it easier to go back and forth from the bank.

- Still sending followers with Scavenging / Extreme Scavenging on resource missions, Solar Priest Vayx on Apexis Crystal missions, weekly rare missions, Primal Spirit missions, Archeology missions, and Oil missions. The resources can be traded for mats at the Trading Post or saved for future needs, Apexis Crystals I'm just stockpiling, weekly rare missions will help me complete some of my transmog wishes, Primal Spirits can be traded for Savage Blood or Felblight, Archeology missions just make Archeology less drudgy, and Oil missions only if I have 1,000 or less.

- Still sending out ships for Primal Spirits, Sorcerous Elements to fuel my Alchemists, Apexis Crystals, and weekly rare missions. Won't do the Oil Rig missions unless I'm at or below 1,000 Oil (ship missions aren't nearly as important to me). Not touching any of the combat, training, or bafeful missions.

- Using the 4 Alchemists I have to transmute 200 of my Sorcerous Air, Fire, and Water into Earth. They sell better, and I need some of them for making Hexweave bags for my Tailors.

- Clearing out all the Draenic Stones and Draenic Seeds I have left. The stones I'm processing down to ore, the seeds I'm continuing to collect on some toons for the Herbalism farm tool transmogs while other toons just process them for herbs.

- Watching for deals on the AH. One example is watching for Savage Blood priced below 50 gold since that price is the soft cap bottom price (Bloody Gold Purses still average 50+ gold per bag, so below 50 gold makes it profitable if you can't sell it for more for some reason).

- Stockpiling mats for my Demon Hunter's professions. A lot of mats being dumped cheaply atm, though prices fluctuate in wild swings at times (a lot of AH hounds are also buying them up).

Got other stuff I'm doing as well, but that's some of it in a nutshell