Tunnell, Lawrence

ORAL HISTORY OF JUDGE WILLIAM LAWRENCE TUNNELL
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
February 6, 2014
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center of Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is February 6, 2014. I am Don Hunnicutt in the law office of Mr. Lawrence Tunnell, 901 Oak Ridge Turnpike, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to take his oral history about the early years of Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Judge Tunnell, please state your full name, place of birth, and date please.
MR. TUNNELL: William Lawrence Tunnell. I use the – just the initial W. Lawrence because there are so many people here named Bill that I didn’t want to be called Bill. They said to effectively practice law you had to have a W in front of your name anyway, such as W. Bufford Luallen and various others had the initial there. I’m known as Lawrence Tunnell, but my full name is William Lawrence.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And your place of birth and date?
MR. TUNNELL: The date would be here in Anderson County, and just outside of Oak Ridge within 100 yards of Oak Ridge. I was conceived and was born in the same room in a farmhouse there, which was within 100 yards of Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And the date of your birth?
MR. TUNNELL: It was June 13, 1920.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And your father’s name and place of birth and date, if you recall?
MR. TUNNELL: William Oscar Tunnell. I don’t have his – he died in 1969, and he died at the farm, which was part of Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And your mother’s maiden name and her place of birth and date?
MR. TUNNELL: She was born in Oliver Springs. She was killed by drunk driver, which I prosecuted and made the headlines in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall her birthday?
MR. TUNNELL: My dad was 79, and she was 79 when they died. That’s all I know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your grandparents on your father’s side names and if you recall any dates or birthplaces?
MR. TUNNELL: No. They were born right there at the farm, I’m sure. His name was – I can’t remember his name right this second, but I do know that he was born there in the same house where I was conceived and was born.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You’ll probably think of it. Do recall what your grandmother’s maiden name was?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, Egeland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Her first name?
MR. TUNNELL: Maddie.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about on your mother’s side of the family – what was her father?
MR. TUNNELL: Okay. That was for my mother’s side I was saying with Egeland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall your grandfather on your mother’s side – his name?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it was Jim Egeland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they live in the area here in Anderson County?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, they lived down the way. There’s the airport there at Oliver Springs. She lived right there at the airport.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what grade school your father went through?
MR. TUNNELL: It would be something in the Wheat community, I would think. He graduated. He had a brilliant mind my dad did. If I have a good mind at all, it’s a tribute to him. He went to Wheat and graduated with honors from Wheat Institute. I know that the principals of the various schools around the area would come to him and asking questions about things. They would get a book in, and they would think that there’s something wrong with the book. They would come and say “Mr. Tunnell”– they called it “tunnel” then. They didn’t call it Tunnell. It is Tunnell. That’s a correct pronunciation. You don’t hear anyone say Darnell for Donald. They would come down. I remember one time they came down. I was there. They said “Mr. Tunnell, we found a mistake in the book.” They sent it out, and he said “Let me see it.” He looked at it and said “The answer is…” They job that said “No, we don’t think so.” He said “Obviously, that’s what the answer is.” They said “We just don’t understand what you mean.” He said “It’s something about how many posts it takes to build the fence. What you’re not considering is that you have to have a post to start on.” They said “That is right. That would make that right.” He said “That answer is right.” This is one of the things that I remember about him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was the farm located?
MR. TUNNELL: The farm was located right at the top of what is the greenbelt now. You know where Dr. Stanley lives?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, I don’t.
MR. TUNNELL: Orchard Lane. It came all the way to the top of the ridge over here.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were there fruit trees up there?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was it a part of the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: That was not part of our farm, but it was part of a farm. There was a colored family up there that had some peaches and so forth. Right there where Orange Lane is, there were a lot of peaches in there. They had a church – a lot of the blacks did. People would frequently ask me if we had any trouble with integration. I said “No, we didn’t know about anything like integration. We had three or four families up there all the time – the Carters, the Griffeys, and the [inaudible]. Hank Griffey – she came down and fished at the creek. I remember one experience I had with her. I asked her if I could watch her and be patient, and she said yes. I had my big collie dog with me we always kept on the farm. We sat down on the bank, and I was being as quiet as I could be. But the bank broke loose. I fell out onto the creek. She got real upset and left. But as far as the integration is concerned, we didn’t have any problem because blacks would come down to our house and bring us apples, and we would take things up to them. They would come down to our house and eat meals with us, and we would with them. We never thought anything about it. We didn’t know anything about segregation.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were there other black families in the area that you recall?
MR. TUNNELL: No, just the three up there. They had a church up there in Aldrich right there close to where several doctors live now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There’s a little cemetery at the top of Michigan and Outer Drive on the right after coming up Michigan. I’ve been told that it’s the black cemetery.
MR. TUNNELL: I’ve been there many, many times.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I guess that was part of that family.
MR. TUNNELL: There was a church there – a black church there. I used to get in there and preach myself. Just acting crazy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your father – what type of work did he do on the farm? Tell me what a typical day in the farm would be like.
MR. TUNNELL: It would all depend. He cleaned the farm off – he would clean all the farm off. It was growing up, and it was growing up when I took it over, too. The United States government had let it grow up, and we had to clean it up. He cleaned it off completely. He did it with an ax and a saw – a handsaw, one of those with a handle on each end.
MR. HUNNICUTT: A two-person saw?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. He used that to clean it off with, and he cleaned it off. His father gave him a suit. I think he said he got married in it. He married my mother when he met her.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall where they got married?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I do. At John Hannings’ office. You know where that tin can alley is…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Going toward Oliver Springs?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, the house is still there, and John Hannings became the chancellor in Knoxville. Yeah – no he was not that chancellor. He was in charge of everything for the chancellor over there. He did a great job at it. In fact, I have some things I took over to him numerous times when I was practicing law.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall where your father met your mother?
MR. TUNNELL: I don’t remember them ever telling that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have brothers and sisters?
MR. TUNNELL: I had Blanche, and I had a brother named Jim. He died of cancer while I was in the service. I didn’t get to come back to see him. My son, who died with cancer also, had the same name – Jim. They were both named James Thomas. That’s most unusual I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you only had one sister and one brother.
MR. TUNNELL: I had Blanche, and I had Faith – the one we were just talking about.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where do you fall in the pecking order of age?
MR. TUNNELL: I would be third, I guess. Jim was the second. Blanche was first, and Jim was second, and I would be third. Jim – my brother Jim died in at age 33. He died while I was in the Army. I did never get to see him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of farm was that? How did the family have food? How was the income of the family?
MR. TUNNELL: Income of the family – we had turkeys, and we would sell a few turkeys. We had watermelons. We sold watermelons. Watermelon now cost $6. We sold them for 10 cents. Dad had a car that he turned into a truck that he could haul those things in, and he hauled them to Clinton – those little stores. They had all kinds of stores between Robertsville and Clinton. He would deliver those. He would go down as far as Coalfield and deliver them – the watermelons.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The road that we call Highway 61 in the back of Oak Ridge was constructed for the Manhattan Project because the city was closed. Was that just a gravel road that ran in that direction?
MR. TUNNELL: There wasn’t any road at all there. There was absolutely no road there – just the railroad was the only thing that was there. It was made while I was in the Army, and when I came back from the Army I saw it. When I came back from the Army in Clinton, I got off of the bus. I caught a cab driver there, and I asked him to take me down to my home. He said that – I told him how to get there, and he said “You have been gone a long time.” I never did talk to Mother and Dad while I was gone. I never spoke a word to them. I was gone for three years, and I didn’t speak to them. He said “There’s a new road that goes right in front of your dad and mother’s house.” I said “What do you mean?” He said “Yeah, there’s a new road. You don’t have to go the way that you used to have to go way around another way. I’ll take you right up there, and you’ll be right next – when you drive up there, you’ll be right by their front porch.” I was. I was absolutely amazed. When I got to Dossett, and instead of turning off at Dossett to go all the way around right through that area, I went right straight. They built that while I was gone from Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Dossett was what? A little train stop?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. That’s where I used to get my papers that I would deliver. I would spend the whole day. I’ve often said I was the first businessman in Oak Ridge. I ordered me a bicycle after I got the papers. I carried them just by walking for a long time. After I got enough money, I bought me a bicycle from Sears Roebuck. They delivered it at what had been part of Oak Ridge then – Bacon Springs Road. I picked up my bicycle there and put it together. I would be up there real early in the morning on a Sunday, and I would get my papers and put it in the back. I had a little legs on the back.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The little baskets?
MR. TUNNELL: The baskets on the back that I put them in. I would take those all over the area of what is now Oak Ridge. It used to be Bacon Springs Road – down there to Key Springs Road, right in that area down there. I would work practically all day with those. I would haul those in the rain and snow and sleet. I would make 65 cents if I collected on all of them after working all day, and that was pretty good money.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that the Knoxville News-Sentinel?
MR. TUNNELL: They had the News-Sentinel. That was a Sunday paper. They had the Journal, too – the Knoxville Journal.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned Bacon Springs. Bacon Springs I think is where there’s a pump station. Is that for Oliver Springs water and Marlow and down in there?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, it is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then Key Springs – if you go down G Road today, Key Springs was located on the left coming down the road just before you cross the – that’s Poplar Creek, is that right?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, Poplar Creek.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So there were gravel roads that ran from Key Springs to Bacon Springs and all the families lived in that area.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, and it ran on down through past the end of Oliver Springs.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was kind of the main road for travel?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. There was one that came through right through my office – right here out in front of my office that was Robertsville Pike.
MR. HUNNICUTT: This road that we are referring to in front of the office that we call Oak Ridge Turnpike today – it ran from Clinton into the east end of Oak Ridge. Was that a two-lane unpaved as you remember?
MR. TUNNELL: It was just the one lane. There was hardly ever a car. The most I’ve driven down through there many times were mules. We had mules that would pull a wagon, and I would be driving the wagon that would be going out to Elza Gate to have wheat to ground up so we could have some bread. We had also coming down that same road – Bacon Springs across the creek, you would go down to John Sweet’s place. I would ride a mule down there on Saturday, and we would get corn ground so we could have cornbread. We took the cornbread and pinto beans, and mother would can tomatoes. That was most of the food you could get. This always staggers everybody that comes in here and listens to this – that you could get 100 pound of beans for $1.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Those were pinto beans?
MR. TUNNELL: Pinto beans for $1. Now their $2 and something I think a pound.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably a can. Exactly where was the mill located?
MR. TUNNELL: What mill?
MR. HUNNICUTT: The one that you went to with the wheat and corn to get cornmeal.
MR. TUNNELL: It was just outside of what would now be Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: On the other side of the railroad trestle?
MR. TUNNELL: The wheat mill was this way to the east, and it was then Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT: About where in Elza would you…
MR. TUNNELL: About there where Williams’ car dealership is right in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The corner of Melton Lake Drive and the Turnpike?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, that’s where it would be.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And the other mill was in the west part of the area?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. It’s just right across from Key Springs Road. It was up on the hill. There was a $1 million house out there right now. It’s sitting right up there in Sweets subdivision.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you’re driving the mule team going to the mills, what was the route? How was the route that you took to come to the east end of Oak Ridge?
MR. TUNNELL: There was an area there that was close to where Dr. Stanley lives now. It’s a distance back from where Key Springs Road is that you could come up that road, and we used that a lot. I remember one time that my mother fell off of a horse or a mule there, and she almost got killed. I pulled her leg out of the stirrups, and she got up and got back on the horse. I was riding along beside her on the horses when she was going. I don’t know where she was going that day or what she was doing.
MR. HUNNICUTT: If I remember right, that road or path or whatever you want to call it that came up there on Orchard – when you came up to Orchard, how did you descend down to what we are calling the Turnpike today?
MR. TUNNELL: There was just a trail that came down through that. They called it Carol Holler. There was a little path that you would go down to Carol Holler, and then off of Carol Holler going to the Turnpike, you would go to the back of where my house is now at 105 Nixon Road. There’s a tree there – a Dogwood tree there now with indications where the road is. It wouldn’t actually be there now because there’s a well in there that John Pig Rogers – they call them Pig because he’s big and fat. He lived there in a little hut approximately where my house is now, and it went on down to what would normally be Robertsville Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That would probably be about were G Road is today. You come up there on Outer and come down New York Ave. – sort of that direction?
MR. TUNNELL: G Road is still there. G Road is Bacon Springs Road. It’s on the other side of the hill there – G Road is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That’s kind of the way it flowed on down sort of where New York Avenue, right on down to what we call the Turnpike or Robertsville Road in those days?
MR. TUNNELL: It was just a little east of New York Ave.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What age were you when you’re talking about driving the mule team?
MR. TUNNELL: I don’t know. I was probably ten years old or something like that – eight or ten or something like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What were some of the chores that you had to do growing up on the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: We used to cut wood for the fireplace. My first job there was to stack hay. It was just off of the Bacon Springs Road – I stacked hay. My dad had that hay in there, and they took the hay to the barn over there. The mules pulled the hay up into the barn, and it had a lift in it. They would hit that lift, and it would drop the hay off into the loft of the barn. They didn’t bale it then. They just had it like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Loose hay?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the typical dress for a boy in your time raised on the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: It is somewhere in here. It’s a pair of bib overalls. I have a picture of the school there. It shows everybody had bib overalls, and nobody was fat. Everybody was skinny. They didn’t have all these goodies like they have here today to eat. I hoed the corn there. By myself, Dad said that I was a good worker. So when I was able to hoe it all – that could be one reason I got sick. I don’t know. We had a field there that was a quarter of a mile long, and it had corn planted in it. It was kind of rocky through there. They gave me a hoe which I sharpened good and went to what is Tunnell Springs now. They gave me a can of water down there, and I would stay down there all day and maybe bring me something to eat.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What kind of chores did your sisters have to do?
MR. TUNNELL: They worked around the house. In fact, we had what was here in Oak Ridge – now where those million-dollar houses are that you can see from my old home place over there now. These houses there on what was leading up to the greenbelt – we had a garden back over there, and my sister and I would go over there and hoe that garden. There was a place over there near Orange Lane that we had corn stuff in there that we worked together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of house were you born in? Describe what it looked like.
MR. TUNNELL: It’s here now. I’ve got a picture. It’s much better of course now than it was then. There’s some of the hay that we had there. Yeah, there’s the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: This house that we’re looking at in the photograph – this is the house you were born in, correct?
MR. TUNNELL: That’s correct.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Basically, the way the house looks today – is that the way it looked back when you were born in that house?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it wasn’t cleaned up and fixed up like that. It wasn’t painted. It was grown up and all that sort of stuff.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Still had a tin roof?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How many rooms do recall – bedrooms in the house?
MR. TUNNELL: I guess four.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have your own room? Or did you have to share with your brother?
MR. TUNNELL: I had my own room. Jim and I had the same room. That’s right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Other than the farm for food, did you travel other places besides the mills to get any kind of supplies?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, we drove the horses through what would be Karns community. We went through there. We drove the team of mules through there, too – through what was Parker Brothers Hardware. They had a special harness for mules. I remember Dad would take me in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that were the Karns red light is today? Is that where that was located?
MR. TUNNELL: No, it was on further down. It was on into Knoxville. It was several miles from there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So how long did it take you to go that distance?
MR. TUNNELL: We would spend practically all day going there and back and getting the harness fixed up for the mules.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You crossed the Solway Bridge, I presume, to go in that direction?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how that Solway Bridge looked when you traveled across it? How was it made?
MR. TUNNELL: I have a picture of the old one out there. As far as I know, it’s the same as it was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You probably don’t remember having a Solway ferry before they built the bridge there. It’s probably before your time.
MR. TUNNELL: That Solway Bridge – I have a picture of it on the walls out there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you first attend school?
MR. TUNNELL: At the Marlow Elementary.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was that located?
MR. TUNNELL: In the Marlow community, about a mile and a half away. My sister and I walked that mile and a half in the rain, snow, and sleet. We didn’t have adequate clothing. No one did at that time. Everybody – my sister doesn’t like to use the word poor, but everybody was the same. You never thought anything about it. You never thought anything about it. We would get real wet going to school. On the muddy road, it didn’t even have any gravel on it. It was a mile and a half, and my sister – to show you how persistent that we are – my sister went to school for 13 years and didn’t miss a day, and wasn’t ever tardy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So they didn’t close schools like they do today? If it snows in Rockwood, they close the schools in Oak Ridge.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s right. Somebody said when I was practicing law that if you’re going to a job I had to do in Wartburg, they said it comes a heavy dew down there that they close it. That’s right I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that a one-room schoolhouse? Describe the school house to me.
MR. TUNNELL: There were several. This is my wife here. She just walked in. I’m on TV, Honey. They’re recording me. This school – it was a four-room with a big auditorium. In the morning, the first thing we would do is march around the auditorium – all the way around it. They would read the Bible and sing a song.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you pledge allegiance to the flag?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, we did. We sure did pledge allegiance to the flag.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the first grade the first grade that you attended? Was there such a thing as kindergarten in those days?
MR. TUNNELL: Kindergarten wasn’t the first. It was similar to kindergarten…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Preschool of some sort?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, that’s right. It was a primer – they call that the primer. Let me may say that all the years that I attended, there was only one time that anybody ever made a better grade than I did. I thought it was the end of the world when that happened. I made top grades all the way through school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What were some of the subjects that you were taught when you went to school there?
MR. TUNNELL: Arithmetic, reading, and writing – reading, writing, and arithmetic, and geology, geography.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The girls dressed in dresses I presume in those days when they went anywhere.
MR. TUNNELL: They did, and my sister dressed in some of her underclothes and things that were made out of sacking material that you got out of those things that you buy that had flour in them. They would buy flour sometimes, and they would make things out of that for the girls to wear.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was your mother a good cook?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, an exceptional one. People called on her, and they’re using her recipes right now. I remember one time that somebody called her and asked her because she had given a recipe, and she said “I just put a pinch of this in and a pinch of that.” That’s the way she did it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: She seasoned to taste.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, she was quite a lady. I got sick – real sick, and she gave me life three times. I was sick one time when I was seven or eight years old, and the doctor told me just to take me back home and let me die – that I couldn’t live. I got TB after I practiced law a while, and the doctor said I wouldn’t make it then. She said that I did make it. I came home and stayed by myself. My wife at that time left, and I stayed at home by myself. Jim – he stayed with me. Mother came over and brought the food to me. I got well again, and I came back here to work.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember any of your teachers’ names when you went to Marlow school?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, there’s a Cantrell, who was the grandfather of Dale Cantrell, the lawyer over Clinton now. I remember him. I remember Davis. Yeah, right there is my picture.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is this Marlow school here?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. That’s when I came back from the Army. It was the first month I was in the Army, I came back and graduated from high school. They wouldn’t let me stay at the high school until I graduated. I had to go into the Army. The person who is in charge…
MR. HUNNICUTT: This school is the Robertsville School you attended. Is that correct?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, Robertsville High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We have identification of all these people in this photograph as well.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s the one that was taken after I came back from being in the Army one month. They wouldn’t let me stay there one month – wouldn’t let me continue. That’s the reason I’m in uniform. I came back in uniform to graduate from Robertsville High School. I remember the man who was chairman of the draft boards told me. I said “Can you give me an extension of just one month?” He said “Only thing that we will give you is a gun.” When I came back to practice law, he was still practicing in Clinton. The first three cases that I had I think were where he would oppose me. I won all three of them. He said to me “I can’t believe that anybody would be prepared like this.” I said “I remember one time that you told me that you would give me – the only thing that you would give me would be a gun; so I’m telling you right now that anytime that you oppose me, the only thing I’m going to give you is hell, and I’m going to pour it on you. You look so incompetent to me now. I just resent the fact that you wouldn’t let me have that one month there.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: How did the family heat the home? How was it heated?
MR. TUNNELL: The fireplace and the wood. That’s one of my jobs when I came in from school – cut wood. There was a wooded area there that I would go out in there and cut wood. We would use it sometimes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your mother have a wood cook stove to cook on?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, she did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The main part of the house was heated by fireplace?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, the fireplace was in the kitchen. It was open in the kitchen and the living room. I remember many times we didn’t have very good lighting – just a kerosene light. We didn’t have the kerosene sometimes to light with. I would sit in the middle of the night with a fire, or I would lie down on my stomach and lean right up against the fire and have my textbooks here that I would be reading and studying. I had good eyes and I could see well. That’s the way Abraham Lincoln did. I got a kick out of that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your favorite subject in school?
MR. TUNNELL: I guess in grade school it would be arithmetic. I liked arithmetic. Geography – I liked it, too. English was my outstanding subject in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you attended the Robertsville School, describe what the school look like that you can remember.
MR. TUNNELL: It looked just like it does now. We’ve got a picture of it there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, we showed that earlier of your graduation.
MR. TUNNELL: There wasn’t that much. People came from various places.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You have another shot of the school itself in your collection?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it’s somewhere.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We will go back to that.
MR. TUNNELL: Wait a minute. It shows me that I have the picture of the school, and the Golden Eagle that they put out…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that a school newspaper?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, that was kind of the thing that they would put out every year or so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let’s go back a little bit where you talked about the Robertsville Road, which we are calling the Turnpike now. How do you remember that road was routed between Oak Ridge and Oliver Springs?
MR. TUNNELL: It was approximately the same as it is now. There have been some improvements on it. It was approximately the same route as it is now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It didn’t turn on Robertsville by the community center and then go up by Lockett Store, which was on the corner of Robertsville and I believe Raleigh. I’m not sure of the name of that street.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it was right in there. That’s right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of Lockett Store, what do you remember about Lockett Store?
MR. TUNNELL: I remember that’s where we came over to get…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You’re talking about Lockett Store. Kind of describe with that looked like.
MR. TUNNELL: It was just a small little store. It kind of looks like a house. They kind of look like a house. You could drive in there. Mr. Lockett – we all knew him real well. He had a girl in there that I went to high school with. She was right beside me there. She was a very beautiful girl. He had adopted her. He had taken her in. Her name was McCoy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about Nash Copeland? Where was his store located?
MR. TUNNELL: That’s what we’re talking about.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, Lockett was who we were talking about.
MR. TUNNELL: Lockett was out on east end.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, Lockett was at the corner of Robertsville up there, where the Crossroads Tavern used to be.
MR. TUNNELL: They had a store there. That’s right. Lockett Store. It would be there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And that Nash Copeland store was…
MR. TUNNELL: About the center down to where the center of the city is now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Around CVS – somewhere in that area?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family do much business with them?
MR. TUNNELL: A lot of the shopping that we had to do, we had to come over and get some of the more staple items like bread or something.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When did the family have a car?
MR. TUNNELL: I believe we had an old Ford about all the times I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you did a lot of traveling into the Oak Ridge area via the car?
MR. TUNNELL: I guess they didn’t use the car to travel into those areas. It must’ve been later on that they got the car after it was developed a little bit more. I don’t remember us having a car when I was riding the mules.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a house that set next to the Grove Theater when Oak Ridge was built. Do you recall the family that lived in it?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. That’s Andy Justice. He drove the school bus that brought us over to Robertsville School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall a church in that area called West Church?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was it located?
MR. TUNNELL: I can’t remember exactly, but I remember there was a church in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: In the Grove Center area?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where the Oak Ridge swimming pool now is used to be a pond. Do you recall who owned that at that particular time?
MR. TUNNELL: It was the Millers at Clinton, I think. The thing about that – the significant thing about that when I was growing up was that they had a murder there that was – Bill Key had a store that I’m thinking about that we haven’t mentioned. Bill Key’s store – we were talking about another store. Bill Key’s store was right on the road leading to Oliver Springs, and it was right up from the high school – Robertsville High School. These people – they got in a cab, and that was in 1918, I believe. I just heard them talking about it. I wasn’t there. But I did know all the story about it – that they had a murder there. I think there were three people – two or three people that were murdered there. One of them saved his life by putting his head down in that spring. The blood was pouring out of his neck. They cut their throats, and they left, and this fellow put his head down in the water. He went down to Mr. Key’s store. They finally got him medical assistance, and he lived. They hanged those guys – they hanged all of them for first-degree murder for killing those people.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When the family needed a doctor, what did you do?
MR. TUNNELL: You had to go to Clinton. The only time I remember – my mother was sick. They had a car then, and they would drive up there. Dr. Hicks was a doctor in Clinton. I went to the doctor in Powell they thought could help me, and he’s the one that told them to take me back home and let me die, that I couldn’t live.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how you got your milk? Did you have cows on the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, we did. Mother and I came right up to Key Springs Road. I had a big collie dog, and the cows had bells on them. See the bells up there?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MR. TUNNELL: The cows had bells like that, and the dog – one of them had a bell on. When he would hear that bell, the dog would run to the bell. When he would bring that cow in to us, then the rest of them would follow in. We would milk the cows. Mother and I would walk over to that and gather the milk back. She would dip the cream off and sell the cream, and we only had the Blue John they would call it. She would sell the cream to a creamery company in Knoxville. They would come by and pick it up, and we would get a little extra money that way. On the way up to there, they were making liquor and moonshine on our land. It was on our land – actually on our land. Mother would speak to them. They would say “Is there a John or Sam or Lewis?” That would always amazed me that you can look down there and see where they were making liquor.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How did you keep the milk? Did you have an icebox or how did you do that?
MR. TUNNELL: Later on we had an icebox, but most of the time we kept it down there in what they called the Tunnell Springs Farm. It was in the water. That’s where I got my water when I was hoeing corn down there. I would hoe corn all day by myself.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How far away from the house was a spring?
MR. TUNNELL: It’s a quarter of a mile I guess. We would walk over there. That’s where we got good drinking water sometimes. We had a well there, and the well only had to be 20 feet deep to have plenty of water in it because the creek is all down low in there. Down there in the fields now you can dig down just a few feet, and you can hit water.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So the house had no running electricity or water inside?
MR. TUNNELL: Absolutely not at all. It didn’t have any – when I came back from the Army, it didn’t have any of that either. It was 1945.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you warm in the winter and hot in the summer?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. We were not too warm in the winter. I slept upstairs where we didn’t have any heat at all. I remember one time my mother came up there, and we had 13 quilts on us. Jim and I had 13 quilts on us. She made those quilts. That’s when a lot of the women came to our house, and that’s how they socialized. They would work on quilts. Mother had 100 quilts, I think, she had quilted when she died.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Would she take material from pieces of clothing and various things to make the quilt?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, just anything she could get in there and cut it up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Talking about moonshine or whiskey – do you remember a lady down on 61 Highway that used to sell? What was her name?
MR. TUNNELL: I can’t recall. Have you got it there now?
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, I’ve been told, but I don’t remember. I was hoping you would.
MR. TUNNELL: I know it, but I can’t think of it now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I’ve been told back when Oak Ridge was fenced in, that was one of the points of obtaining whiskey was to go down and see this lady.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I represented them there a lot of times. It slipped my mind right now what that was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a telephone in the house?
MR. TUNNELL: No, we didn’t even have a telephone when I came back from the Army. I spent three years overseas, and I never spoke to my people while I was gone.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Mail delivery in those days – did you have a box out on the side of the road? How was that?
MR. TUNNELL: There was a box over there near where the garden was on Key Springs Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: In 1945 when they dropped the bomb on Japan, where were you?
MR. TUNNELL: I was in Casablanca. That is some distance down from Cairo, Egypt. I don’t know why I was down there, but I was there that night. I couldn’t believe it when I heard that. That woman’s name was Lee, I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The bootlegger?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your reaction to hearing that Oak Ridge produced the bomb?
MR. TUNNELL: I was just happy and joyful to know about it. Later on, I had breakfast in the morning with a fellow who shaped up that bomb could drop for the second one – what they call the big one.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Little Boy and then the Fat Man?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, the Fat Man, he did that one.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back to churches in the area – we mentioned the West Church in the Grove Center area. You remember another one on Iroquois Avenue? It was a church that was here in the beginning, but I don’t recall the face of the church. It’s there today. It’s been remodeled.
MR. TUNNELL: The big church here was the Methodist Church out here about where – you know where the paint store was there for so long, and were Reeder Motor Company was?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MR. TUNNELL: Right in there, they had a big, big church there. It was a Methodist Church, and that’s where most of the people attended here actually.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was another church at the corner of Arkansas on the Turnpike. Arkansas was out in the East End where there was East Village Shell. Nash Copeland had a gas station – a Texaco station there.
MR. TUNNELL: I can’t remember. I can remember there was one there, but I can’t remember anything about it. The big one was that Methodist Church right there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let’s go back really early and tell me what you remember about the man named John Hendrix.
MR. TUNNELL: I know more about his son that I do him. Of course that was before my time when John was here. He had a son and a daughter, and his son had a wonderful mind. He was politically inspired. He did like Roosevelt, and he did like Eleanor. He wrote a poem. Could you read that into there?
MR. HUNNICUTT: You go ahead and tell me somewhere about John – what you remember, the people in this area remember while I look for this.
MR. TUNNELL: There was John Hendrix, and there was …
MR. HUNNICUTT: I found the poem. I’ll read that while you’re looking. It says:
“Come listen to me, people,
And hear my tale of woe,
And if you feel it tiring,
I'll shut my mouth and go.
“I had a home in Robertsville.
They call it Oak Ridge now.
T'was home for all my younguns
and their chickens and the cow.
“One day a bunch of men rode in
With papers in their hands
And great big shining badges.
They came and took our land.
“They read a lot of great big words
I couldn't understand,
But when it was all over
I didn't own the land.
“I had seen the Revenoors
Come and search and take the stills,
But I didn't think the government
Would ever seize our hills.
“Of course, we had to get right out
And start to paying rent,
But now, what can poor folks do
Against the government?
“Just sixty acres t'was all I had.
Some rich land and some poor.
But the check they sent me
Wouldn't buy a pure bred bor (sic).
“Now see I ain't complaining.
It's just my blamed bad luck,
On any deal I ever made
I'm always getting stuck.
“Of course the government was right.
They always are, you see.
T'was just the land looked worse to them
Than it ever did to me.
“I moved to Union County,
Once famous for its Stills,
And bought another cabin
and a bunch of slatey hills.
“For I couldn't keep my younguns
And their chickens and the cow
Without a little pasture
And a piece of land to plow.
“But I've done seen me a vision
And it's one I understand.
In the none too distant future
Working folks will own no land.
“There will be a bunch of planners.
Everyone will live by plan.
Plan our work, plan our religion,
Plan our schooling and our play,
Won't even have to study,
'Now what must I do today.'
“The thing to do is win the war
And when we end that strife,
Stop electing Presidents
For longer terms than life.
“Well I guess I'd better hush.
I could have said some more,
But her just let me whisper!
I'm skeered of Elinor.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: This is Curtis Allen Hendrix.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Judge, let’s jump ahead a little bit. When you came back from the Army, tell me about your further education and what you did.
MR. TUNNELL: Could we deal just a little bit about when I was in the Army and what I did there?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sure.
MR. TUNNELL: When I got to the – we were on the Ile-de-France, and have a picture out here that you want to – it’s out there in the waiting room. You’ll want to get a picture of that. We were on that thing 52 days. We went from Oakland, California – went from Pearl Harbor to Australia and New Zealand, and then around the Indian Ocean into the Persian Gulf. I was assigned eventually to Tehran in Iran, where they have the Roosevelt and Churchill and Stalin had their conference there one time. I was about 22 or 23-years-old when I was there that time, and they promoted me on the basis of – they sent me down there – I had a captain sitting here like this, and I was sitting over there. I was just an assistant. They had those pretty Persian girls, and I referred to the officers as being happily married man with a steady girlfriend in Iran – in Tehran. We had 15 people killed there one time, and I went into [inaudible] Russia with him and got all the information on that. I sent it back by code to the Pentagon, and the Pentagon brought it back. We had a colonel who was going to be promoted to general. They stopped the promotion because as he said – “I had messed up, and they threw it in my face when they called me in and said I messed up on it.” I said “The Pentagon is the one messed up. If you know your job is on the line, you know that this is ludicrous. They have made a mistake.” He said “You’re telling all generals and all them at the Pentagon mistake?” I said “Yes, I am.” He said “But you only weigh 136, and the [inaudible] said can you imagine that? We’re 5,000 miles away.” I says “Yeah, if you know your job – again, I hate to be redundant on it. But if you know your job as I know mine, you would know it's so simple to look at it.” He said “What do you mean?” I said “I sent that in on the last day of the last month, and they changed the code – as you know or should know – the first of this month. So they received this on the first of this month, and they are trying to interpret it for this month and set up last month.” I said “Could that be true?” I said “No question about it.” He said “I hate to join the club, but I’ll ask you to send a letter and send another code back to them and tell them what the deal is.” In a few days he passed by – two or three days later, and said “Come in, Sergeant” I walked in the door, and he put his hand out and said “Congratulations. We have an order back from the Pentagon saying that they were going to – that they had made a mistake, and that they apologized for it.” I said “That means that you’re going to be a brigadier general then.” He said “Yes, on the way down before I came down, I’ve looked through the TO” – that’s a Table of Organization. He looks over and says “A young man as intelligent as this fella is – how do you keep this sergeant major job open?” I said “Colonel, you’re the one that signs the orders. If you’re willing to sign an order, I can cut that order of making me what you want me to be right quick.” He said “You do that.” I said “Excuse me, then.” I had that on my desk, and I was a sergeant major before the day was over. That was big money then in the Army. The most money I had made was picking blackberries at 10 cents a gallon. That’s a lot of money to get for blackberries – 10 cents a gallon.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You got out of the Army – what was the date?
MR. TUNNELL: It was in 1945. It was in – I think about October something.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you in the area in March 1949 when they opened the gates of the city?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I was in law school then. When did they open the gates?
MR. HUNNICUTT: March 1949.
MR. TUNNELL: I would’ve been here.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the event?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you attend the parade, remember how it went?
MR. TUNNELL: No, I don’t. It was done by the Turnpike here. That’s all I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you got out of the Army, tell me about your further education.
MR. TUNNELL: When I came home, I stayed at home. I was in charge of that office, and there were 34 men under me. By the way, they offered me if I would stay on one more year that they would put the captain’s bars out there. They said “We will pin these on you right now to commission you as an officer or captain in the United States Army.” I said “If you could go across the street and get the generals two stars, I wouldn’t accept it. I’m going back home. You can keep me here because I’ve got 80-some points. You can’t keep me if I’ve had as many as 30 or 40. I’ve been over that long.” So I came on back home. When I got home, that was the first time I had spoken to my parents in three years. I got home in the middle of the night. I told you how the road came through there. I stayed there three days, and then I went into Knoxville and got a job. You couldn’t get a job anywhere then. You couldn’t buy a car. You couldn’t do anything. I went to Knoxville, and I was interested in politics. Guy Jones was the head of the Knoxville Journal. I went to him, and he got me a job working for Cas Walker. I worked for Cas. I could go in anytime I wanted to work because he said I was the best worker he ever had.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of work did you do for Cas Walker?
MR. TUNNELL: I worked in the grocery store.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about Cas Walker.
MR. TUNNELL: Cas Walker was an unusual man. He knew how to sell things, but he was basically a fantastically dishonest fellow. I told him – I got the privilege. I didn’t say a thing while I was there. I remember on one occasion what just destroyed me is an elderly man came in. He was probably in his late 70s. He could hardly get around. He came in, and I remember that Cas asked him – his manager, who is his son-in-law, asked him if he would go and see what that man wanted. He said he wanted a washtub. They were hard to find because it’s metal. They went over to him, and said “Mr. Jones” – or whatever his name was – “I heard you came in to get a washtub. I respect you as a client here. You’re just a good customer. I’ve got two on hand here in the back.” He maybe had for 15 or 20 in the back there. He had got a whole big shipment of them in. He said “I’m going to give you a special deal on it.” They were selling for $3 or something. He said “I’m going to let you have this thing for $6 or $5.” He said “I surely do appreciate this, Mr. Walker. The Lord will bless you for being good to people like me.” When I got to go off to school, he said “I’ve got a job for you, Lawrence. I want you to take over all the stores and be the manager over all of them. You’ll be in the office most of the time. You will go by the stores once in a while. We’re just very impressed with your knowledge about everything.” I said “Nope. I am not going to take that job. I won’t take that. This does give me the opportunity to tell you what I think of you.” He said “What is that?” I said “I can look you right in the face and tell you that I believe you are the most dishonest person I have ever met.” That’s the way I felt about him. I remember at that store that one day I saw a fellow sell liquor out of a pushcart. I said “Look at that guy, he’s selling liquor and moonshine out of that cart.” He said “Yeah. You know who that is, don’t you?” I said “No.” He said “That’s Bob Suffrage’s father. You know Bob.” Of course about was the greatest minds man who ever played for Tennessee. He was an All-American three times. He had one year that they didn’t score in Tennessee. They said they wouldn’t dare do anything against Bob Suffrage. I met Suffrage after – while I was going to law school, and he became a friend of mine, Bob did. He was the greatest football player I ever saw step on the field. He was fantastic.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you first set up your law office?
MR. TUNNELL: Right here. Just right there in that little place right there. It was about a 5-by-10 place. Mr. Mitchell was from Alabama, and he got me started there. I paid $50 a month for this place. Now I’ve got a conference room right there – a big conference room. I have the best law library in East Tennessee. Of course the books are not worth that much now. I hired Brad out there to take care of the technical stuff now that we use.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of law did you first start presiding over?
MR. TUNNELL: It was just general practice. I swept the chicken manure off the front porch of some of the places. We had what they would collect JP court. I would go to places like Lordsburg and down there. We would hold court on his front porch, and the chicken manure would be all over. I would sweep them off so that people wouldn’t get involved in it. Later on his son was my best friend – early on, his son was my best friend of law school. He was elected a judge over Knoxville.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your first case that you ever had?
MR. TUNNELL: We had some kind of case involving a lawyer in Clinton against the same person. I believe that was up that Jackson. I can’t remember specifically what it was. It was something involving property. I knew property real well. I went to Harvard just in small town after I got out of law school. I enjoyed being there at Cambridge. I spent some time in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Have you always practiced law in Oak Ridge – the same location?
MR. TUNNELL: Same location.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Without divulging any names, can you tell me what your most difficult case you ever had was?
MR. TUNNELL: I can tell you Hancock Kirby had a car dealership here. He was a very wealthy fellow. Some guy came by and wanted to try out a car he saw there. He’s supposed to go just a mile or two and bring it right back. He left with the car, and he went down to Athens. Athens had a lawyer by the name of Frank Bratton. I’ll never forget the name. That fellow pulled that car out in front of the school bus, and they had a terrible wreck. Somebody was killed, and one was severely injured – brain-damaged. Frank Bratton sued on that, and he was the leading lawyer in the state of Tennessee at that time. All the judges respected him. It ended up in Federal Court. I had just been admitted to practice in Federal Court. I went down to Chattanooga to hear that case. They had a judge there from Harvard that had graduated from Harvard name Judge Miller. Frank would bring up all the sophisticated things, and he would say to them “Now I have to explain this to you. Mr. Bratton is a great lawyer. He is one of the great lawyers in the state of Tennessee.” I said “Explain it to me. I’m young, too. I’m not familiar with all the facts and techniques they use in these cases.” What it came down to in the end – the judge says “Is there anything further?” I said “I have a motion to make, Your Honor. I have worked for three months on this case, and I came across a case I think just recently that is exactly like this case, and it was dismissed. I respectfully submit…” I told him what the case was and read a little bit of it. He said “Mr. Tunnell, I remember reading – I thought I remembered that case, too. I spent most of the night last night with my law clerk looking, and we found that case last night. Mr. Bratton, you know that Mr. Tunnell has brought a case in here that is exactly on point on this. I have no alternative except to dismiss this case.” I thought old Frank would fall out of his chair when he said that to him because there were millions of dollars that they were going to find for, and no question about it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you meet your first wife?
MR. TUNNELL: She was working in Knoxville. My sister – she was the best friend of my sister. They were in business college together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you all live in Oak Ridge when you got married?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you live in Oak Ridge?
MR. TUNNELL: In the same place that I live now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Give me the address of the house.
MR. TUNNELL: 105 Nixon.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned that you have a son. Did you have any more children?
MR. TUNNELL: No, just Jim. The only son I had was Jim.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your first wife passed away, and you are remarried now?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What is your wife’s name now?
MR. TUNNELL: Margie. She was Margie Goot. My wife left me when I got sick when I was here, and when I came back, I got sick right here in this office. She left me, and I divorced her. She died, but I was good to her and my son. I gave them a place to live. I have a lot of property now. I bought a lot of property. I’ve done well. When they sold Oak Ridge, I had probably in 1,000 or more of those sales around $200 on each one of them. I made lots of money at that time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: If I’m right in saying, the farm that still in your family down and Marlow…
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it is. I bought the interest of everybody else out. Also, I bought a lot more. Oak Ridge abandoned that part of the farm from the greenbelt down over to the highway. I bought it back from people. They had a sale that I didn’t know about, but I bought it back. It had all grown up, but I had cleaned it off. People thought I could never clean it off, but I did. I did that by myself.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How do you see that the city has progressed or receded over the years? Has the city – what’s your overall view of how the city is today?
MR. TUNNELL: The city is very political unless you go along with everything that they say. For example, they are basically against “in God we trust” on top of my building out there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I understand.
MR. TUNNELL: None of them appeared up here when they put the sign up here. Also, they told me I couldn’t put mine up, so I put it up anyway. They haven’t come down. We are going to try – [inaudible] will represent me in it, too. If they ever take it down, we are going to try to have a jury trial to determine. We are going to file a motion for them to stop the procedure, and then we’re going to ask for jury trial of 12 people out in Anderson County to decide or wherever they happen to be from.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I kind of doubt if that will ever happen. Knowing you and the people knowing you, I probably wouldn’t venture that would happen.
MR. TUNNELL: We’ve had it up sometime, and they haven’t taken it down.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Judge, during all the years that you’ve seen things, what would you think the most amazing thing that you’ve ever seen is?
MR. TUNNELL: That’s a hard question. It’s been when they changed the city managers – when they changed the city manager. I remember they had some – I was down there one night, and the guy that I was representing got up. He started to cut the fellow’s throat, and I was right there with him. I backed him out of the building, and they had people all around us. The officers came in. He had committed homicide on two or three people – at least one person. The trial was dismissed because somebody was after his wife I think or somebody, and he killed him. I was down there in the city right there, and that night it was right there with the court meets now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That’s a pretty amazing event to witness.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it really was. I was absolutely frightened out of my wits. He said “I’m going to roll that fellow’s head down the steps.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: One thing that I want to bring up – someone told me at one time you had the title of mayor of Marlow. What is the story there?
MR. TUNNELL: We had a case – I’m still the mayor. Don’t say you can’t live in Oak Ridge and not be the mayor of somewhere else. George Dumpster – he was in Knoxville all the time. He lived at the airport all the time in Knoxville, and he was the mayor of Knoxville. He lived strictly in Jefferson County or somewhere down there. I use that as an example. I had a case going, and this fellow got up. He told us how brilliant he was. He had a case that he was relying on, and I got up and told the judge that I was relying on that case, too. But it was a different case. I said “I’m relying on it in a different way. This young lawyer – I said I admit that he’s brilliant. He’s exceeded everything that I’ve ever done in my life. But I just wondered where he was the third year of law school because the third year of law school you learn that this particular case that he’s been citing was repealed by the state Supreme Court, in the case that repealed it is right here.” I gave the judge the name of the case, and he said “Sir, that is …” I said, “As far as being mayor of someplace, I don’t think that has any bearing on it regardless of being mayor Knoxville. That doesn’t have anything to do with this particular case. I’m the mayor down in Marlow,” and I don’t know why I said that. I said “I don’t use that to try to influence the court.” He looked over to him, and he began to turn kind of pale. He said “You know, I will have to dismiss the case. You don’t have anything differently, do you, then what Mr. Tunnell has on this?” He said “No, I don’t. I really didn’t know that.” I said “During all his brilliant studies, he doesn’t know much of the law, does he, Your Honor?” As I started to go outside, some fellow stayed there all the time and watched all the cases. He said “It’s wonderful to be young and enthusiastic, isn’t it? It’s a hell of a lot better to know what you’re doing, isn’t it?” That was a great moment.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you want to talk about?
MR. TUNNELL: Let me see here. I’ll tell you about one thing that happened that I thought – the fact that I picked the blackberries for 10 cents a gallon. Some fellow offered me 15 cents a gallon if I would pick for him for a week. His name was Ben Nance, and he was from Knoxville. I carried those to the depot out at Marlow station. For four or five days, I picked it, and it was $1.50 a day instead of a dollar. I was really happy about that, and he was going to pay me all of it on Saturday. When it came Saturday, he never did show up. I had a half a gallon for them there on that day. He was going to pay me 15 cents a gallon, but he didn’t even show up. I lost the whole week of work of picking. Another thing that I thought influenced me a lot and I think about a lot is that you could get an egg. If you get an egg, everything was bartering. You didn’t have money much to pay for anything. I crawled out of the house one time, and I got an egg. Mother gave me that one egg to go take it to the store and to get some candy with. With one egg, you could get a great big bag of candy. I got those chocolate drops, and I took it out to what was Bill Jones’ little store. There were three or four people that had a store on their front porch. The day they put it on the front porch, and at night they would put it inside the house. He had a little stand in there where you could put your stuff in there. I asked that he said “What can I do for you?” I said “I want this egg, and I want to get some candy with it.” He said “Oh, yeah. What kind?” I showed him what kind and put my egg out there. He got it out and filled this big bag up with drops – candy drops. Just as he turned around to hand it to me, the egg rolled off of the counter and broke. He put my candy back in the barrel he had the candy in. That’s kind of a sad thing. I walked a mile and a half to get to that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I was just sitting here thinking about – how did he know whether the egg was good or bad and he was willing to trade with you. He could’ve gotten a bad egg, and you could’ve gotten good candy. It didn’t turn out that way. Judge, it’s been my pleasure to interview you. Definitely will be a big contribution to the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History, and whoever may pull it up and read about it will be very pleased with the information that you’ve given us today.
MR. TUNNELL: I’m pleased here. I got the building here. I bought the building. That’s one thing we didn’t cover. I bought it from people from time to time. There were 17 of us that bought the building to begin with, and I was the unlucky one just to keep buying it. I bought the whole thing. It’s in my name alone now. It’s a corporation. I’m the only stockholder in the corporation.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That brings up one final question here for you. What was in this building originally in the early days? I remember one time the telephone company was in either this building are the one that’s been torn down.
MR. TUNNELL: It was in this building – the telephone company was in this east one. This was built for Eastman, and it has been declared a historical place. When they selected it as being the best kept building in Oak Ridge, I was the first one. I think you should get a picture of that ship I was on and all those pictures outside in my hallway. Could you get that?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything else that you’d like to recall that we haven’t talked about? We could probably sit here all day and think about a lot of things.
MR. TUNNELL: I’ve got all these things. This is the best thing that’s ever happened to me is Miss Margie here. We are so happy together. We’ve been married 18 or 19 years. By the way, I did practice law with Howard Baker. I graduated law school at the same time Howard did. We were good friends together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There is something else before I forget it. Show that picture of your son and tell the story about Sgt. York.
MR. TUNNELL: Well, with Howard Baker. I believe that the only time Howard practiced law could’ve been with me because we had some cases down here just outside of Oak Ridge, where the mining company had let the water drain down. It got real deep, and the silt from the mining washing – we filed suit against that. Howard and I handled that. Sgt. York – we went over one time to Pall Mall, where the sergeant lived. Somehow – I don’t know. We went down to his house where they had bought this beautiful place down there. The government had bought that for him, and the state of Tennessee had given him several acres of land. There’s a big stream that ran down through there. Anyhow, we got to talk to him one time, and he just fell in love with my son. We would go over frequently and talk to him. Ms. Gracie would come to the door, and she would invite us in. We would go in, and he would talk to us. He would tell us about how he killed all those people over there. He told us reluctantly – he did. Jim said “You did that all by yourself?” He started crying and said “God was with me. No person could have walked up that hill with them shooting right straight at you as good as they were without the Lord being directly. He was with me. God was. He was with me. When I came back, they tried to get me to take a $1 million to tour the United States, but I said this uniform ain’t for sale.” I thought that was great. We went over there one time to see him, and he was pretty sick. We knocked on the door, and Gracie came to the door. She said “I’m sorry. I don’t think that we can see you today. He has already turned down a United States senator and a governor. They all wanted to come in and talk to him. They came here, and he said he didn’t feel like it. However, he might have a different opinion about Jim. He loves that child so much.” She went in and came back and said “You all come on in.” We went in. That’s the time that he took the picture there. I remember Jim said “Where did you learn to shoot like that?” He pulled the bed back. They had a bed there that the American Legion had given him, and he could roll it whichever way he wanted to. He said “Right over yonder on that hill – that’s where I did that shooting.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sgt. Alvin York was a World War I hero that had killed a lot of Germans single-handedly and saved his regimen or his group of men.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s what he did. On this thing, he went up that mountain, and he captured way over 100. He killed about 30, I think maybe. He had a whole bunch that were right in front of him, and he was shooting them from behind because he learned how to do that shooting squirrels or something. When you see two or three that were lined up or turkey – that you could shoot the one from behind, and the one in front didn’t know that the one behind was falling. He used that same technique. When he captured all these people, they went up to the place – they surrendered to him and put up the white flag. He got up there and said “Where are all the American forces?” They said “They are to the left.” He said “Platoon right.” He turned them to the right, and they came and down through there and said he came at all these people. They said “By God, here comes Alvin York. He’s captured the whole German Army.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: Gary Cooper played his part in a movie, and you told me that he went and lived with Sgt. York.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, he lived there with him. He definitely did. He lived with them all the time and learned how to speak and talk his language and everything. I watched the show. I’ve seen it several times. Of course, it was fantastic.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did he actually wet the tip of his gun barrel before he would shoot, like in the movies?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, he did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So the movie pretty much dictated exactly what happened…
MR. TUNNELL: Cooper did a fantastic job on that. When they got it done, he wanted to take a picture of Jim. I said “Do you think they’ll take a picture?” When he said that, he said “Yeah,” and he put his arm around Jim, and I took that picture of them there with Jim. He loved Sgt. York. He had that in his room when he died – Jim did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Judge, thank you again for letting us come into your office and take this interview. It’s been my pleasure to do that.
[End of Interview]

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ORAL HISTORY OF JUDGE WILLIAM LAWRENCE TUNNELL
Interviewed by Don Hunnicutt
Filmed by BBB Communications, LLC.
February 6, 2014
MR. HUNNICUTT: This interview is for the Center of Oak Ridge Oral History. The date is February 6, 2014. I am Don Hunnicutt in the law office of Mr. Lawrence Tunnell, 901 Oak Ridge Turnpike, Oak Ridge, Tennessee, to take his oral history about the early years of Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Judge Tunnell, please state your full name, place of birth, and date please.
MR. TUNNELL: William Lawrence Tunnell. I use the – just the initial W. Lawrence because there are so many people here named Bill that I didn’t want to be called Bill. They said to effectively practice law you had to have a W in front of your name anyway, such as W. Bufford Luallen and various others had the initial there. I’m known as Lawrence Tunnell, but my full name is William Lawrence.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And your place of birth and date?
MR. TUNNELL: The date would be here in Anderson County, and just outside of Oak Ridge within 100 yards of Oak Ridge. I was conceived and was born in the same room in a farmhouse there, which was within 100 yards of Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And the date of your birth?
MR. TUNNELL: It was June 13, 1920.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And your father’s name and place of birth and date, if you recall?
MR. TUNNELL: William Oscar Tunnell. I don’t have his – he died in 1969, and he died at the farm, which was part of Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And your mother’s maiden name and her place of birth and date?
MR. TUNNELL: She was born in Oliver Springs. She was killed by drunk driver, which I prosecuted and made the headlines in Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You recall her birthday?
MR. TUNNELL: My dad was 79, and she was 79 when they died. That’s all I know.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your grandparents on your father’s side names and if you recall any dates or birthplaces?
MR. TUNNELL: No. They were born right there at the farm, I’m sure. His name was – I can’t remember his name right this second, but I do know that he was born there in the same house where I was conceived and was born.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You’ll probably think of it. Do recall what your grandmother’s maiden name was?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, Egeland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Her first name?
MR. TUNNELL: Maddie.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about on your mother’s side of the family – what was her father?
MR. TUNNELL: Okay. That was for my mother’s side I was saying with Egeland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall your grandfather on your mother’s side – his name?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it was Jim Egeland.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did they live in the area here in Anderson County?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, they lived down the way. There’s the airport there at Oliver Springs. She lived right there at the airport.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember what grade school your father went through?
MR. TUNNELL: It would be something in the Wheat community, I would think. He graduated. He had a brilliant mind my dad did. If I have a good mind at all, it’s a tribute to him. He went to Wheat and graduated with honors from Wheat Institute. I know that the principals of the various schools around the area would come to him and asking questions about things. They would get a book in, and they would think that there’s something wrong with the book. They would come and say “Mr. Tunnell”– they called it “tunnel” then. They didn’t call it Tunnell. It is Tunnell. That’s a correct pronunciation. You don’t hear anyone say Darnell for Donald. They would come down. I remember one time they came down. I was there. They said “Mr. Tunnell, we found a mistake in the book.” They sent it out, and he said “Let me see it.” He looked at it and said “The answer is…” They job that said “No, we don’t think so.” He said “Obviously, that’s what the answer is.” They said “We just don’t understand what you mean.” He said “It’s something about how many posts it takes to build the fence. What you’re not considering is that you have to have a post to start on.” They said “That is right. That would make that right.” He said “That answer is right.” This is one of the things that I remember about him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was the farm located?
MR. TUNNELL: The farm was located right at the top of what is the greenbelt now. You know where Dr. Stanley lives?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Now, I don’t.
MR. TUNNELL: Orchard Lane. It came all the way to the top of the ridge over here.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were there fruit trees up there?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was it a part of the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: That was not part of our farm, but it was part of a farm. There was a colored family up there that had some peaches and so forth. Right there where Orange Lane is, there were a lot of peaches in there. They had a church – a lot of the blacks did. People would frequently ask me if we had any trouble with integration. I said “No, we didn’t know about anything like integration. We had three or four families up there all the time – the Carters, the Griffeys, and the [inaudible]. Hank Griffey – she came down and fished at the creek. I remember one experience I had with her. I asked her if I could watch her and be patient, and she said yes. I had my big collie dog with me we always kept on the farm. We sat down on the bank, and I was being as quiet as I could be. But the bank broke loose. I fell out onto the creek. She got real upset and left. But as far as the integration is concerned, we didn’t have any problem because blacks would come down to our house and bring us apples, and we would take things up to them. They would come down to our house and eat meals with us, and we would with them. We never thought anything about it. We didn’t know anything about segregation.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were there other black families in the area that you recall?
MR. TUNNELL: No, just the three up there. They had a church up there in Aldrich right there close to where several doctors live now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There’s a little cemetery at the top of Michigan and Outer Drive on the right after coming up Michigan. I’ve been told that it’s the black cemetery.
MR. TUNNELL: I’ve been there many, many times.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I guess that was part of that family.
MR. TUNNELL: There was a church there – a black church there. I used to get in there and preach myself. Just acting crazy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your father – what type of work did he do on the farm? Tell me what a typical day in the farm would be like.
MR. TUNNELL: It would all depend. He cleaned the farm off – he would clean all the farm off. It was growing up, and it was growing up when I took it over, too. The United States government had let it grow up, and we had to clean it up. He cleaned it off completely. He did it with an ax and a saw – a handsaw, one of those with a handle on each end.
MR. HUNNICUTT: A two-person saw?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. He used that to clean it off with, and he cleaned it off. His father gave him a suit. I think he said he got married in it. He married my mother when he met her.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall where they got married?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I do. At John Hannings’ office. You know where that tin can alley is…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Going toward Oliver Springs?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, the house is still there, and John Hannings became the chancellor in Knoxville. Yeah – no he was not that chancellor. He was in charge of everything for the chancellor over there. He did a great job at it. In fact, I have some things I took over to him numerous times when I was practicing law.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall where your father met your mother?
MR. TUNNELL: I don’t remember them ever telling that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you have brothers and sisters?
MR. TUNNELL: I had Blanche, and I had a brother named Jim. He died of cancer while I was in the service. I didn’t get to come back to see him. My son, who died with cancer also, had the same name – Jim. They were both named James Thomas. That’s most unusual I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you only had one sister and one brother.
MR. TUNNELL: I had Blanche, and I had Faith – the one we were just talking about.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where do you fall in the pecking order of age?
MR. TUNNELL: I would be third, I guess. Jim was the second. Blanche was first, and Jim was second, and I would be third. Jim – my brother Jim died in at age 33. He died while I was in the Army. I did never get to see him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of farm was that? How did the family have food? How was the income of the family?
MR. TUNNELL: Income of the family – we had turkeys, and we would sell a few turkeys. We had watermelons. We sold watermelons. Watermelon now cost $6. We sold them for 10 cents. Dad had a car that he turned into a truck that he could haul those things in, and he hauled them to Clinton – those little stores. They had all kinds of stores between Robertsville and Clinton. He would deliver those. He would go down as far as Coalfield and deliver them – the watermelons.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The road that we call Highway 61 in the back of Oak Ridge was constructed for the Manhattan Project because the city was closed. Was that just a gravel road that ran in that direction?
MR. TUNNELL: There wasn’t any road at all there. There was absolutely no road there – just the railroad was the only thing that was there. It was made while I was in the Army, and when I came back from the Army I saw it. When I came back from the Army in Clinton, I got off of the bus. I caught a cab driver there, and I asked him to take me down to my home. He said that – I told him how to get there, and he said “You have been gone a long time.” I never did talk to Mother and Dad while I was gone. I never spoke a word to them. I was gone for three years, and I didn’t speak to them. He said “There’s a new road that goes right in front of your dad and mother’s house.” I said “What do you mean?” He said “Yeah, there’s a new road. You don’t have to go the way that you used to have to go way around another way. I’ll take you right up there, and you’ll be right next – when you drive up there, you’ll be right by their front porch.” I was. I was absolutely amazed. When I got to Dossett, and instead of turning off at Dossett to go all the way around right through that area, I went right straight. They built that while I was gone from Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Dossett was what? A little train stop?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. That’s where I used to get my papers that I would deliver. I would spend the whole day. I’ve often said I was the first businessman in Oak Ridge. I ordered me a bicycle after I got the papers. I carried them just by walking for a long time. After I got enough money, I bought me a bicycle from Sears Roebuck. They delivered it at what had been part of Oak Ridge then – Bacon Springs Road. I picked up my bicycle there and put it together. I would be up there real early in the morning on a Sunday, and I would get my papers and put it in the back. I had a little legs on the back.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The little baskets?
MR. TUNNELL: The baskets on the back that I put them in. I would take those all over the area of what is now Oak Ridge. It used to be Bacon Springs Road – down there to Key Springs Road, right in that area down there. I would work practically all day with those. I would haul those in the rain and snow and sleet. I would make 65 cents if I collected on all of them after working all day, and that was pretty good money.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that the Knoxville News-Sentinel?
MR. TUNNELL: They had the News-Sentinel. That was a Sunday paper. They had the Journal, too – the Knoxville Journal.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned Bacon Springs. Bacon Springs I think is where there’s a pump station. Is that for Oliver Springs water and Marlow and down in there?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, it is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And then Key Springs – if you go down G Road today, Key Springs was located on the left coming down the road just before you cross the – that’s Poplar Creek, is that right?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, Poplar Creek.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So there were gravel roads that ran from Key Springs to Bacon Springs and all the families lived in that area.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, and it ran on down through past the end of Oliver Springs.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That was kind of the main road for travel?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. There was one that came through right through my office – right here out in front of my office that was Robertsville Pike.
MR. HUNNICUTT: This road that we are referring to in front of the office that we call Oak Ridge Turnpike today – it ran from Clinton into the east end of Oak Ridge. Was that a two-lane unpaved as you remember?
MR. TUNNELL: It was just the one lane. There was hardly ever a car. The most I’ve driven down through there many times were mules. We had mules that would pull a wagon, and I would be driving the wagon that would be going out to Elza Gate to have wheat to ground up so we could have some bread. We had also coming down that same road – Bacon Springs across the creek, you would go down to John Sweet’s place. I would ride a mule down there on Saturday, and we would get corn ground so we could have cornbread. We took the cornbread and pinto beans, and mother would can tomatoes. That was most of the food you could get. This always staggers everybody that comes in here and listens to this – that you could get 100 pound of beans for $1.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Those were pinto beans?
MR. TUNNELL: Pinto beans for $1. Now their $2 and something I think a pound.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Probably a can. Exactly where was the mill located?
MR. TUNNELL: What mill?
MR. HUNNICUTT: The one that you went to with the wheat and corn to get cornmeal.
MR. TUNNELL: It was just outside of what would now be Oak Ridge.
MR. HUNNICUTT: On the other side of the railroad trestle?
MR. TUNNELL: The wheat mill was this way to the east, and it was then Elza Gate.
MR. HUNNICUTT: About where in Elza would you…
MR. TUNNELL: About there where Williams’ car dealership is right in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The corner of Melton Lake Drive and the Turnpike?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, that’s where it would be.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And the other mill was in the west part of the area?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. It’s just right across from Key Springs Road. It was up on the hill. There was a $1 million house out there right now. It’s sitting right up there in Sweets subdivision.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you’re driving the mule team going to the mills, what was the route? How was the route that you took to come to the east end of Oak Ridge?
MR. TUNNELL: There was an area there that was close to where Dr. Stanley lives now. It’s a distance back from where Key Springs Road is that you could come up that road, and we used that a lot. I remember one time that my mother fell off of a horse or a mule there, and she almost got killed. I pulled her leg out of the stirrups, and she got up and got back on the horse. I was riding along beside her on the horses when she was going. I don’t know where she was going that day or what she was doing.
MR. HUNNICUTT: If I remember right, that road or path or whatever you want to call it that came up there on Orchard – when you came up to Orchard, how did you descend down to what we are calling the Turnpike today?
MR. TUNNELL: There was just a trail that came down through that. They called it Carol Holler. There was a little path that you would go down to Carol Holler, and then off of Carol Holler going to the Turnpike, you would go to the back of where my house is now at 105 Nixon Road. There’s a tree there – a Dogwood tree there now with indications where the road is. It wouldn’t actually be there now because there’s a well in there that John Pig Rogers – they call them Pig because he’s big and fat. He lived there in a little hut approximately where my house is now, and it went on down to what would normally be Robertsville Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That would probably be about were G Road is today. You come up there on Outer and come down New York Ave. – sort of that direction?
MR. TUNNELL: G Road is still there. G Road is Bacon Springs Road. It’s on the other side of the hill there – G Road is.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That’s kind of the way it flowed on down sort of where New York Avenue, right on down to what we call the Turnpike or Robertsville Road in those days?
MR. TUNNELL: It was just a little east of New York Ave.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What age were you when you’re talking about driving the mule team?
MR. TUNNELL: I don’t know. I was probably ten years old or something like that – eight or ten or something like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What were some of the chores that you had to do growing up on the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: We used to cut wood for the fireplace. My first job there was to stack hay. It was just off of the Bacon Springs Road – I stacked hay. My dad had that hay in there, and they took the hay to the barn over there. The mules pulled the hay up into the barn, and it had a lift in it. They would hit that lift, and it would drop the hay off into the loft of the barn. They didn’t bale it then. They just had it like that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Loose hay?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was the typical dress for a boy in your time raised on the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: It is somewhere in here. It’s a pair of bib overalls. I have a picture of the school there. It shows everybody had bib overalls, and nobody was fat. Everybody was skinny. They didn’t have all these goodies like they have here today to eat. I hoed the corn there. By myself, Dad said that I was a good worker. So when I was able to hoe it all – that could be one reason I got sick. I don’t know. We had a field there that was a quarter of a mile long, and it had corn planted in it. It was kind of rocky through there. They gave me a hoe which I sharpened good and went to what is Tunnell Springs now. They gave me a can of water down there, and I would stay down there all day and maybe bring me something to eat.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What kind of chores did your sisters have to do?
MR. TUNNELL: They worked around the house. In fact, we had what was here in Oak Ridge – now where those million-dollar houses are that you can see from my old home place over there now. These houses there on what was leading up to the greenbelt – we had a garden back over there, and my sister and I would go over there and hoe that garden. There was a place over there near Orange Lane that we had corn stuff in there that we worked together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of house were you born in? Describe what it looked like.
MR. TUNNELL: It’s here now. I’ve got a picture. It’s much better of course now than it was then. There’s some of the hay that we had there. Yeah, there’s the house.
MR. HUNNICUTT: This house that we’re looking at in the photograph – this is the house you were born in, correct?
MR. TUNNELL: That’s correct.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Basically, the way the house looks today – is that the way it looked back when you were born in that house?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it wasn’t cleaned up and fixed up like that. It wasn’t painted. It was grown up and all that sort of stuff.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Still had a tin roof?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How many rooms do recall – bedrooms in the house?
MR. TUNNELL: I guess four.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have your own room? Or did you have to share with your brother?
MR. TUNNELL: I had my own room. Jim and I had the same room. That’s right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Other than the farm for food, did you travel other places besides the mills to get any kind of supplies?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, we drove the horses through what would be Karns community. We went through there. We drove the team of mules through there, too – through what was Parker Brothers Hardware. They had a special harness for mules. I remember Dad would take me in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that were the Karns red light is today? Is that where that was located?
MR. TUNNELL: No, it was on further down. It was on into Knoxville. It was several miles from there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So how long did it take you to go that distance?
MR. TUNNELL: We would spend practically all day going there and back and getting the harness fixed up for the mules.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You crossed the Solway Bridge, I presume, to go in that direction?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember how that Solway Bridge looked when you traveled across it? How was it made?
MR. TUNNELL: I have a picture of the old one out there. As far as I know, it’s the same as it was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You probably don’t remember having a Solway ferry before they built the bridge there. It’s probably before your time.
MR. TUNNELL: That Solway Bridge – I have a picture of it on the walls out there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you first attend school?
MR. TUNNELL: At the Marlow Elementary.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was that located?
MR. TUNNELL: In the Marlow community, about a mile and a half away. My sister and I walked that mile and a half in the rain, snow, and sleet. We didn’t have adequate clothing. No one did at that time. Everybody – my sister doesn’t like to use the word poor, but everybody was the same. You never thought anything about it. You never thought anything about it. We would get real wet going to school. On the muddy road, it didn’t even have any gravel on it. It was a mile and a half, and my sister – to show you how persistent that we are – my sister went to school for 13 years and didn’t miss a day, and wasn’t ever tardy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So they didn’t close schools like they do today? If it snows in Rockwood, they close the schools in Oak Ridge.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s right. Somebody said when I was practicing law that if you’re going to a job I had to do in Wartburg, they said it comes a heavy dew down there that they close it. That’s right I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that a one-room schoolhouse? Describe the school house to me.
MR. TUNNELL: There were several. This is my wife here. She just walked in. I’m on TV, Honey. They’re recording me. This school – it was a four-room with a big auditorium. In the morning, the first thing we would do is march around the auditorium – all the way around it. They would read the Bible and sing a song.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you pledge allegiance to the flag?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, we did. We sure did pledge allegiance to the flag.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was the first grade the first grade that you attended? Was there such a thing as kindergarten in those days?
MR. TUNNELL: Kindergarten wasn’t the first. It was similar to kindergarten…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Preschool of some sort?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, that’s right. It was a primer – they call that the primer. Let me may say that all the years that I attended, there was only one time that anybody ever made a better grade than I did. I thought it was the end of the world when that happened. I made top grades all the way through school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What were some of the subjects that you were taught when you went to school there?
MR. TUNNELL: Arithmetic, reading, and writing – reading, writing, and arithmetic, and geology, geography.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The girls dressed in dresses I presume in those days when they went anywhere.
MR. TUNNELL: They did, and my sister dressed in some of her underclothes and things that were made out of sacking material that you got out of those things that you buy that had flour in them. They would buy flour sometimes, and they would make things out of that for the girls to wear.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was your mother a good cook?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, an exceptional one. People called on her, and they’re using her recipes right now. I remember one time that somebody called her and asked her because she had given a recipe, and she said “I just put a pinch of this in and a pinch of that.” That’s the way she did it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: She seasoned to taste.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, she was quite a lady. I got sick – real sick, and she gave me life three times. I was sick one time when I was seven or eight years old, and the doctor told me just to take me back home and let me die – that I couldn’t live. I got TB after I practiced law a while, and the doctor said I wouldn’t make it then. She said that I did make it. I came home and stayed by myself. My wife at that time left, and I stayed at home by myself. Jim – he stayed with me. Mother came over and brought the food to me. I got well again, and I came back here to work.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember any of your teachers’ names when you went to Marlow school?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, there’s a Cantrell, who was the grandfather of Dale Cantrell, the lawyer over Clinton now. I remember him. I remember Davis. Yeah, right there is my picture.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is this Marlow school here?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. That’s when I came back from the Army. It was the first month I was in the Army, I came back and graduated from high school. They wouldn’t let me stay at the high school until I graduated. I had to go into the Army. The person who is in charge…
MR. HUNNICUTT: This school is the Robertsville School you attended. Is that correct?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, Robertsville High School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We have identification of all these people in this photograph as well.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s the one that was taken after I came back from being in the Army one month. They wouldn’t let me stay there one month – wouldn’t let me continue. That’s the reason I’m in uniform. I came back in uniform to graduate from Robertsville High School. I remember the man who was chairman of the draft boards told me. I said “Can you give me an extension of just one month?” He said “Only thing that we will give you is a gun.” When I came back to practice law, he was still practicing in Clinton. The first three cases that I had I think were where he would oppose me. I won all three of them. He said to me “I can’t believe that anybody would be prepared like this.” I said “I remember one time that you told me that you would give me – the only thing that you would give me would be a gun; so I’m telling you right now that anytime that you oppose me, the only thing I’m going to give you is hell, and I’m going to pour it on you. You look so incompetent to me now. I just resent the fact that you wouldn’t let me have that one month there.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: How did the family heat the home? How was it heated?
MR. TUNNELL: The fireplace and the wood. That’s one of my jobs when I came in from school – cut wood. There was a wooded area there that I would go out in there and cut wood. We would use it sometimes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your mother have a wood cook stove to cook on?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, she did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The main part of the house was heated by fireplace?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, the fireplace was in the kitchen. It was open in the kitchen and the living room. I remember many times we didn’t have very good lighting – just a kerosene light. We didn’t have the kerosene sometimes to light with. I would sit in the middle of the night with a fire, or I would lie down on my stomach and lean right up against the fire and have my textbooks here that I would be reading and studying. I had good eyes and I could see well. That’s the way Abraham Lincoln did. I got a kick out of that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your favorite subject in school?
MR. TUNNELL: I guess in grade school it would be arithmetic. I liked arithmetic. Geography – I liked it, too. English was my outstanding subject in high school.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you attended the Robertsville School, describe what the school look like that you can remember.
MR. TUNNELL: It looked just like it does now. We’ve got a picture of it there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes, we showed that earlier of your graduation.
MR. TUNNELL: There wasn’t that much. People came from various places.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You have another shot of the school itself in your collection?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it’s somewhere.
MR. HUNNICUTT: We will go back to that.
MR. TUNNELL: Wait a minute. It shows me that I have the picture of the school, and the Golden Eagle that they put out…
MR. HUNNICUTT: Was that a school newspaper?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, that was kind of the thing that they would put out every year or so.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let’s go back a little bit where you talked about the Robertsville Road, which we are calling the Turnpike now. How do you remember that road was routed between Oak Ridge and Oliver Springs?
MR. TUNNELL: It was approximately the same as it is now. There have been some improvements on it. It was approximately the same route as it is now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: It didn’t turn on Robertsville by the community center and then go up by Lockett Store, which was on the corner of Robertsville and I believe Raleigh. I’m not sure of the name of that street.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it was right in there. That’s right.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Speaking of Lockett Store, what do you remember about Lockett Store?
MR. TUNNELL: I remember that’s where we came over to get…
MR. HUNNICUTT: You’re talking about Lockett Store. Kind of describe with that looked like.
MR. TUNNELL: It was just a small little store. It kind of looks like a house. They kind of look like a house. You could drive in there. Mr. Lockett – we all knew him real well. He had a girl in there that I went to high school with. She was right beside me there. She was a very beautiful girl. He had adopted her. He had taken her in. Her name was McCoy.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What about Nash Copeland? Where was his store located?
MR. TUNNELL: That’s what we’re talking about.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, Lockett was who we were talking about.
MR. TUNNELL: Lockett was out on east end.
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, Lockett was at the corner of Robertsville up there, where the Crossroads Tavern used to be.
MR. TUNNELL: They had a store there. That’s right. Lockett Store. It would be there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: And that Nash Copeland store was…
MR. TUNNELL: About the center down to where the center of the city is now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Around CVS – somewhere in that area?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did your family do much business with them?
MR. TUNNELL: A lot of the shopping that we had to do, we had to come over and get some of the more staple items like bread or something.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When did the family have a car?
MR. TUNNELL: I believe we had an old Ford about all the times I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So you did a lot of traveling into the Oak Ridge area via the car?
MR. TUNNELL: I guess they didn’t use the car to travel into those areas. It must’ve been later on that they got the car after it was developed a little bit more. I don’t remember us having a car when I was riding the mules.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was a house that set next to the Grove Theater when Oak Ridge was built. Do you recall the family that lived in it?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. That’s Andy Justice. He drove the school bus that brought us over to Robertsville School.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall a church in that area called West Church?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where was it located?
MR. TUNNELL: I can’t remember exactly, but I remember there was a church in there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: In the Grove Center area?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where the Oak Ridge swimming pool now is used to be a pond. Do you recall who owned that at that particular time?
MR. TUNNELL: It was the Millers at Clinton, I think. The thing about that – the significant thing about that when I was growing up was that they had a murder there that was – Bill Key had a store that I’m thinking about that we haven’t mentioned. Bill Key’s store – we were talking about another store. Bill Key’s store was right on the road leading to Oliver Springs, and it was right up from the high school – Robertsville High School. These people – they got in a cab, and that was in 1918, I believe. I just heard them talking about it. I wasn’t there. But I did know all the story about it – that they had a murder there. I think there were three people – two or three people that were murdered there. One of them saved his life by putting his head down in that spring. The blood was pouring out of his neck. They cut their throats, and they left, and this fellow put his head down in the water. He went down to Mr. Key’s store. They finally got him medical assistance, and he lived. They hanged those guys – they hanged all of them for first-degree murder for killing those people.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When the family needed a doctor, what did you do?
MR. TUNNELL: You had to go to Clinton. The only time I remember – my mother was sick. They had a car then, and they would drive up there. Dr. Hicks was a doctor in Clinton. I went to the doctor in Powell they thought could help me, and he’s the one that told them to take me back home and let me die, that I couldn’t live.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you recall how you got your milk? Did you have cows on the farm?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, we did. Mother and I came right up to Key Springs Road. I had a big collie dog, and the cows had bells on them. See the bells up there?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MR. TUNNELL: The cows had bells like that, and the dog – one of them had a bell on. When he would hear that bell, the dog would run to the bell. When he would bring that cow in to us, then the rest of them would follow in. We would milk the cows. Mother and I would walk over to that and gather the milk back. She would dip the cream off and sell the cream, and we only had the Blue John they would call it. She would sell the cream to a creamery company in Knoxville. They would come by and pick it up, and we would get a little extra money that way. On the way up to there, they were making liquor and moonshine on our land. It was on our land – actually on our land. Mother would speak to them. They would say “Is there a John or Sam or Lewis?” That would always amazed me that you can look down there and see where they were making liquor.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How did you keep the milk? Did you have an icebox or how did you do that?
MR. TUNNELL: Later on we had an icebox, but most of the time we kept it down there in what they called the Tunnell Springs Farm. It was in the water. That’s where I got my water when I was hoeing corn down there. I would hoe corn all day by myself.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How far away from the house was a spring?
MR. TUNNELL: It’s a quarter of a mile I guess. We would walk over there. That’s where we got good drinking water sometimes. We had a well there, and the well only had to be 20 feet deep to have plenty of water in it because the creek is all down low in there. Down there in the fields now you can dig down just a few feet, and you can hit water.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So the house had no running electricity or water inside?
MR. TUNNELL: Absolutely not at all. It didn’t have any – when I came back from the Army, it didn’t have any of that either. It was 1945.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you warm in the winter and hot in the summer?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah. We were not too warm in the winter. I slept upstairs where we didn’t have any heat at all. I remember one time my mother came up there, and we had 13 quilts on us. Jim and I had 13 quilts on us. She made those quilts. That’s when a lot of the women came to our house, and that’s how they socialized. They would work on quilts. Mother had 100 quilts, I think, she had quilted when she died.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Would she take material from pieces of clothing and various things to make the quilt?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, just anything she could get in there and cut it up.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Talking about moonshine or whiskey – do you remember a lady down on 61 Highway that used to sell? What was her name?
MR. TUNNELL: I can’t recall. Have you got it there now?
MR. HUNNICUTT: No, I’ve been told, but I don’t remember. I was hoping you would.
MR. TUNNELL: I know it, but I can’t think of it now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I’ve been told back when Oak Ridge was fenced in, that was one of the points of obtaining whiskey was to go down and see this lady.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I represented them there a lot of times. It slipped my mind right now what that was.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you have a telephone in the house?
MR. TUNNELL: No, we didn’t even have a telephone when I came back from the Army. I spent three years overseas, and I never spoke to my people while I was gone.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Mail delivery in those days – did you have a box out on the side of the road? How was that?
MR. TUNNELL: There was a box over there near where the garden was on Key Springs Road.
MR. HUNNICUTT: In 1945 when they dropped the bomb on Japan, where were you?
MR. TUNNELL: I was in Casablanca. That is some distance down from Cairo, Egypt. I don’t know why I was down there, but I was there that night. I couldn’t believe it when I heard that. That woman’s name was Lee, I think.
MR. HUNNICUTT: The bootlegger?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your reaction to hearing that Oak Ridge produced the bomb?
MR. TUNNELL: I was just happy and joyful to know about it. Later on, I had breakfast in the morning with a fellow who shaped up that bomb could drop for the second one – what they call the big one.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Little Boy and then the Fat Man?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, the Fat Man, he did that one.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Back to churches in the area – we mentioned the West Church in the Grove Center area. You remember another one on Iroquois Avenue? It was a church that was here in the beginning, but I don’t recall the face of the church. It’s there today. It’s been remodeled.
MR. TUNNELL: The big church here was the Methodist Church out here about where – you know where the paint store was there for so long, and were Reeder Motor Company was?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Yes.
MR. TUNNELL: Right in there, they had a big, big church there. It was a Methodist Church, and that’s where most of the people attended here actually.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There was another church at the corner of Arkansas on the Turnpike. Arkansas was out in the East End where there was East Village Shell. Nash Copeland had a gas station – a Texaco station there.
MR. TUNNELL: I can’t remember. I can remember there was one there, but I can’t remember anything about it. The big one was that Methodist Church right there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Let’s go back really early and tell me what you remember about the man named John Hendrix.
MR. TUNNELL: I know more about his son that I do him. Of course that was before my time when John was here. He had a son and a daughter, and his son had a wonderful mind. He was politically inspired. He did like Roosevelt, and he did like Eleanor. He wrote a poem. Could you read that into there?
MR. HUNNICUTT: You go ahead and tell me somewhere about John – what you remember, the people in this area remember while I look for this.
MR. TUNNELL: There was John Hendrix, and there was …
MR. HUNNICUTT: I found the poem. I’ll read that while you’re looking. It says:
“Come listen to me, people,
And hear my tale of woe,
And if you feel it tiring,
I'll shut my mouth and go.
“I had a home in Robertsville.
They call it Oak Ridge now.
T'was home for all my younguns
and their chickens and the cow.
“One day a bunch of men rode in
With papers in their hands
And great big shining badges.
They came and took our land.
“They read a lot of great big words
I couldn't understand,
But when it was all over
I didn't own the land.
“I had seen the Revenoors
Come and search and take the stills,
But I didn't think the government
Would ever seize our hills.
“Of course, we had to get right out
And start to paying rent,
But now, what can poor folks do
Against the government?
“Just sixty acres t'was all I had.
Some rich land and some poor.
But the check they sent me
Wouldn't buy a pure bred bor (sic).
“Now see I ain't complaining.
It's just my blamed bad luck,
On any deal I ever made
I'm always getting stuck.
“Of course the government was right.
They always are, you see.
T'was just the land looked worse to them
Than it ever did to me.
“I moved to Union County,
Once famous for its Stills,
And bought another cabin
and a bunch of slatey hills.
“For I couldn't keep my younguns
And their chickens and the cow
Without a little pasture
And a piece of land to plow.
“But I've done seen me a vision
And it's one I understand.
In the none too distant future
Working folks will own no land.
“There will be a bunch of planners.
Everyone will live by plan.
Plan our work, plan our religion,
Plan our schooling and our play,
Won't even have to study,
'Now what must I do today.'
“The thing to do is win the war
And when we end that strife,
Stop electing Presidents
For longer terms than life.
“Well I guess I'd better hush.
I could have said some more,
But her just let me whisper!
I'm skeered of Elinor.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: This is Curtis Allen Hendrix.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s him.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Judge, let’s jump ahead a little bit. When you came back from the Army, tell me about your further education and what you did.
MR. TUNNELL: Could we deal just a little bit about when I was in the Army and what I did there?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sure.
MR. TUNNELL: When I got to the – we were on the Ile-de-France, and have a picture out here that you want to – it’s out there in the waiting room. You’ll want to get a picture of that. We were on that thing 52 days. We went from Oakland, California – went from Pearl Harbor to Australia and New Zealand, and then around the Indian Ocean into the Persian Gulf. I was assigned eventually to Tehran in Iran, where they have the Roosevelt and Churchill and Stalin had their conference there one time. I was about 22 or 23-years-old when I was there that time, and they promoted me on the basis of – they sent me down there – I had a captain sitting here like this, and I was sitting over there. I was just an assistant. They had those pretty Persian girls, and I referred to the officers as being happily married man with a steady girlfriend in Iran – in Tehran. We had 15 people killed there one time, and I went into [inaudible] Russia with him and got all the information on that. I sent it back by code to the Pentagon, and the Pentagon brought it back. We had a colonel who was going to be promoted to general. They stopped the promotion because as he said – “I had messed up, and they threw it in my face when they called me in and said I messed up on it.” I said “The Pentagon is the one messed up. If you know your job is on the line, you know that this is ludicrous. They have made a mistake.” He said “You’re telling all generals and all them at the Pentagon mistake?” I said “Yes, I am.” He said “But you only weigh 136, and the [inaudible] said can you imagine that? We’re 5,000 miles away.” I says “Yeah, if you know your job – again, I hate to be redundant on it. But if you know your job as I know mine, you would know it's so simple to look at it.” He said “What do you mean?” I said “I sent that in on the last day of the last month, and they changed the code – as you know or should know – the first of this month. So they received this on the first of this month, and they are trying to interpret it for this month and set up last month.” I said “Could that be true?” I said “No question about it.” He said “I hate to join the club, but I’ll ask you to send a letter and send another code back to them and tell them what the deal is.” In a few days he passed by – two or three days later, and said “Come in, Sergeant” I walked in the door, and he put his hand out and said “Congratulations. We have an order back from the Pentagon saying that they were going to – that they had made a mistake, and that they apologized for it.” I said “That means that you’re going to be a brigadier general then.” He said “Yes, on the way down before I came down, I’ve looked through the TO” – that’s a Table of Organization. He looks over and says “A young man as intelligent as this fella is – how do you keep this sergeant major job open?” I said “Colonel, you’re the one that signs the orders. If you’re willing to sign an order, I can cut that order of making me what you want me to be right quick.” He said “You do that.” I said “Excuse me, then.” I had that on my desk, and I was a sergeant major before the day was over. That was big money then in the Army. The most money I had made was picking blackberries at 10 cents a gallon. That’s a lot of money to get for blackberries – 10 cents a gallon.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You got out of the Army – what was the date?
MR. TUNNELL: It was in 1945. It was in – I think about October something.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Were you in the area in March 1949 when they opened the gates of the city?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I was in law school then. When did they open the gates?
MR. HUNNICUTT: March 1949.
MR. TUNNELL: I would’ve been here.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Do you remember the event?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, I do.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you attend the parade, remember how it went?
MR. TUNNELL: No, I don’t. It was done by the Turnpike here. That’s all I remember.
MR. HUNNICUTT: When you got out of the Army, tell me about your further education.
MR. TUNNELL: When I came home, I stayed at home. I was in charge of that office, and there were 34 men under me. By the way, they offered me if I would stay on one more year that they would put the captain’s bars out there. They said “We will pin these on you right now to commission you as an officer or captain in the United States Army.” I said “If you could go across the street and get the generals two stars, I wouldn’t accept it. I’m going back home. You can keep me here because I’ve got 80-some points. You can’t keep me if I’ve had as many as 30 or 40. I’ve been over that long.” So I came on back home. When I got home, that was the first time I had spoken to my parents in three years. I got home in the middle of the night. I told you how the road came through there. I stayed there three days, and then I went into Knoxville and got a job. You couldn’t get a job anywhere then. You couldn’t buy a car. You couldn’t do anything. I went to Knoxville, and I was interested in politics. Guy Jones was the head of the Knoxville Journal. I went to him, and he got me a job working for Cas Walker. I worked for Cas. I could go in anytime I wanted to work because he said I was the best worker he ever had.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of work did you do for Cas Walker?
MR. TUNNELL: I worked in the grocery store.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Tell me about Cas Walker.
MR. TUNNELL: Cas Walker was an unusual man. He knew how to sell things, but he was basically a fantastically dishonest fellow. I told him – I got the privilege. I didn’t say a thing while I was there. I remember on one occasion what just destroyed me is an elderly man came in. He was probably in his late 70s. He could hardly get around. He came in, and I remember that Cas asked him – his manager, who is his son-in-law, asked him if he would go and see what that man wanted. He said he wanted a washtub. They were hard to find because it’s metal. They went over to him, and said “Mr. Jones” – or whatever his name was – “I heard you came in to get a washtub. I respect you as a client here. You’re just a good customer. I’ve got two on hand here in the back.” He maybe had for 15 or 20 in the back there. He had got a whole big shipment of them in. He said “I’m going to give you a special deal on it.” They were selling for $3 or something. He said “I’m going to let you have this thing for $6 or $5.” He said “I surely do appreciate this, Mr. Walker. The Lord will bless you for being good to people like me.” When I got to go off to school, he said “I’ve got a job for you, Lawrence. I want you to take over all the stores and be the manager over all of them. You’ll be in the office most of the time. You will go by the stores once in a while. We’re just very impressed with your knowledge about everything.” I said “Nope. I am not going to take that job. I won’t take that. This does give me the opportunity to tell you what I think of you.” He said “What is that?” I said “I can look you right in the face and tell you that I believe you are the most dishonest person I have ever met.” That’s the way I felt about him. I remember at that store that one day I saw a fellow sell liquor out of a pushcart. I said “Look at that guy, he’s selling liquor and moonshine out of that cart.” He said “Yeah. You know who that is, don’t you?” I said “No.” He said “That’s Bob Suffrage’s father. You know Bob.” Of course about was the greatest minds man who ever played for Tennessee. He was an All-American three times. He had one year that they didn’t score in Tennessee. They said they wouldn’t dare do anything against Bob Suffrage. I met Suffrage after – while I was going to law school, and he became a friend of mine, Bob did. He was the greatest football player I ever saw step on the field. He was fantastic.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you first set up your law office?
MR. TUNNELL: Right here. Just right there in that little place right there. It was about a 5-by-10 place. Mr. Mitchell was from Alabama, and he got me started there. I paid $50 a month for this place. Now I’ve got a conference room right there – a big conference room. I have the best law library in East Tennessee. Of course the books are not worth that much now. I hired Brad out there to take care of the technical stuff now that we use.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What type of law did you first start presiding over?
MR. TUNNELL: It was just general practice. I swept the chicken manure off the front porch of some of the places. We had what they would collect JP court. I would go to places like Lordsburg and down there. We would hold court on his front porch, and the chicken manure would be all over. I would sweep them off so that people wouldn’t get involved in it. Later on his son was my best friend – early on, his son was my best friend of law school. He was elected a judge over Knoxville.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What was your first case that you ever had?
MR. TUNNELL: We had some kind of case involving a lawyer in Clinton against the same person. I believe that was up that Jackson. I can’t remember specifically what it was. It was something involving property. I knew property real well. I went to Harvard just in small town after I got out of law school. I enjoyed being there at Cambridge. I spent some time in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Have you always practiced law in Oak Ridge – the same location?
MR. TUNNELL: Same location.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Without divulging any names, can you tell me what your most difficult case you ever had was?
MR. TUNNELL: I can tell you Hancock Kirby had a car dealership here. He was a very wealthy fellow. Some guy came by and wanted to try out a car he saw there. He’s supposed to go just a mile or two and bring it right back. He left with the car, and he went down to Athens. Athens had a lawyer by the name of Frank Bratton. I’ll never forget the name. That fellow pulled that car out in front of the school bus, and they had a terrible wreck. Somebody was killed, and one was severely injured – brain-damaged. Frank Bratton sued on that, and he was the leading lawyer in the state of Tennessee at that time. All the judges respected him. It ended up in Federal Court. I had just been admitted to practice in Federal Court. I went down to Chattanooga to hear that case. They had a judge there from Harvard that had graduated from Harvard name Judge Miller. Frank would bring up all the sophisticated things, and he would say to them “Now I have to explain this to you. Mr. Bratton is a great lawyer. He is one of the great lawyers in the state of Tennessee.” I said “Explain it to me. I’m young, too. I’m not familiar with all the facts and techniques they use in these cases.” What it came down to in the end – the judge says “Is there anything further?” I said “I have a motion to make, Your Honor. I have worked for three months on this case, and I came across a case I think just recently that is exactly like this case, and it was dismissed. I respectfully submit…” I told him what the case was and read a little bit of it. He said “Mr. Tunnell, I remember reading – I thought I remembered that case, too. I spent most of the night last night with my law clerk looking, and we found that case last night. Mr. Bratton, you know that Mr. Tunnell has brought a case in here that is exactly on point on this. I have no alternative except to dismiss this case.” I thought old Frank would fall out of his chair when he said that to him because there were millions of dollars that they were going to find for, and no question about it.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you meet your first wife?
MR. TUNNELL: She was working in Knoxville. My sister – she was the best friend of my sister. They were in business college together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did you all live in Oak Ridge when you got married?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes, we did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Where did you live in Oak Ridge?
MR. TUNNELL: In the same place that I live now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Give me the address of the house.
MR. TUNNELL: 105 Nixon.
MR. HUNNICUTT: You mentioned that you have a son. Did you have any more children?
MR. TUNNELL: No, just Jim. The only son I had was Jim.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Your first wife passed away, and you are remarried now?
MR. TUNNELL: Yes.
MR. HUNNICUTT: What is your wife’s name now?
MR. TUNNELL: Margie. She was Margie Goot. My wife left me when I got sick when I was here, and when I came back, I got sick right here in this office. She left me, and I divorced her. She died, but I was good to her and my son. I gave them a place to live. I have a lot of property now. I bought a lot of property. I’ve done well. When they sold Oak Ridge, I had probably in 1,000 or more of those sales around $200 on each one of them. I made lots of money at that time.
MR. HUNNICUTT: If I’m right in saying, the farm that still in your family down and Marlow…
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it is. I bought the interest of everybody else out. Also, I bought a lot more. Oak Ridge abandoned that part of the farm from the greenbelt down over to the highway. I bought it back from people. They had a sale that I didn’t know about, but I bought it back. It had all grown up, but I had cleaned it off. People thought I could never clean it off, but I did. I did that by myself.
MR. HUNNICUTT: How do you see that the city has progressed or receded over the years? Has the city – what’s your overall view of how the city is today?
MR. TUNNELL: The city is very political unless you go along with everything that they say. For example, they are basically against “in God we trust” on top of my building out there.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I understand.
MR. TUNNELL: None of them appeared up here when they put the sign up here. Also, they told me I couldn’t put mine up, so I put it up anyway. They haven’t come down. We are going to try – [inaudible] will represent me in it, too. If they ever take it down, we are going to try to have a jury trial to determine. We are going to file a motion for them to stop the procedure, and then we’re going to ask for jury trial of 12 people out in Anderson County to decide or wherever they happen to be from.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I kind of doubt if that will ever happen. Knowing you and the people knowing you, I probably wouldn’t venture that would happen.
MR. TUNNELL: We’ve had it up sometime, and they haven’t taken it down.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Judge, during all the years that you’ve seen things, what would you think the most amazing thing that you’ve ever seen is?
MR. TUNNELL: That’s a hard question. It’s been when they changed the city managers – when they changed the city manager. I remember they had some – I was down there one night, and the guy that I was representing got up. He started to cut the fellow’s throat, and I was right there with him. I backed him out of the building, and they had people all around us. The officers came in. He had committed homicide on two or three people – at least one person. The trial was dismissed because somebody was after his wife I think or somebody, and he killed him. I was down there in the city right there, and that night it was right there with the court meets now.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That’s a pretty amazing event to witness.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, it really was. I was absolutely frightened out of my wits. He said “I’m going to roll that fellow’s head down the steps.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: One thing that I want to bring up – someone told me at one time you had the title of mayor of Marlow. What is the story there?
MR. TUNNELL: We had a case – I’m still the mayor. Don’t say you can’t live in Oak Ridge and not be the mayor of somewhere else. George Dumpster – he was in Knoxville all the time. He lived at the airport all the time in Knoxville, and he was the mayor of Knoxville. He lived strictly in Jefferson County or somewhere down there. I use that as an example. I had a case going, and this fellow got up. He told us how brilliant he was. He had a case that he was relying on, and I got up and told the judge that I was relying on that case, too. But it was a different case. I said “I’m relying on it in a different way. This young lawyer – I said I admit that he’s brilliant. He’s exceeded everything that I’ve ever done in my life. But I just wondered where he was the third year of law school because the third year of law school you learn that this particular case that he’s been citing was repealed by the state Supreme Court, in the case that repealed it is right here.” I gave the judge the name of the case, and he said “Sir, that is …” I said, “As far as being mayor of someplace, I don’t think that has any bearing on it regardless of being mayor Knoxville. That doesn’t have anything to do with this particular case. I’m the mayor down in Marlow,” and I don’t know why I said that. I said “I don’t use that to try to influence the court.” He looked over to him, and he began to turn kind of pale. He said “You know, I will have to dismiss the case. You don’t have anything differently, do you, then what Mr. Tunnell has on this?” He said “No, I don’t. I really didn’t know that.” I said “During all his brilliant studies, he doesn’t know much of the law, does he, Your Honor?” As I started to go outside, some fellow stayed there all the time and watched all the cases. He said “It’s wonderful to be young and enthusiastic, isn’t it? It’s a hell of a lot better to know what you’re doing, isn’t it?” That was a great moment.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything that we haven’t talked about that you want to talk about?
MR. TUNNELL: Let me see here. I’ll tell you about one thing that happened that I thought – the fact that I picked the blackberries for 10 cents a gallon. Some fellow offered me 15 cents a gallon if I would pick for him for a week. His name was Ben Nance, and he was from Knoxville. I carried those to the depot out at Marlow station. For four or five days, I picked it, and it was $1.50 a day instead of a dollar. I was really happy about that, and he was going to pay me all of it on Saturday. When it came Saturday, he never did show up. I had a half a gallon for them there on that day. He was going to pay me 15 cents a gallon, but he didn’t even show up. I lost the whole week of work of picking. Another thing that I thought influenced me a lot and I think about a lot is that you could get an egg. If you get an egg, everything was bartering. You didn’t have money much to pay for anything. I crawled out of the house one time, and I got an egg. Mother gave me that one egg to go take it to the store and to get some candy with. With one egg, you could get a great big bag of candy. I got those chocolate drops, and I took it out to what was Bill Jones’ little store. There were three or four people that had a store on their front porch. The day they put it on the front porch, and at night they would put it inside the house. He had a little stand in there where you could put your stuff in there. I asked that he said “What can I do for you?” I said “I want this egg, and I want to get some candy with it.” He said “Oh, yeah. What kind?” I showed him what kind and put my egg out there. He got it out and filled this big bag up with drops – candy drops. Just as he turned around to hand it to me, the egg rolled off of the counter and broke. He put my candy back in the barrel he had the candy in. That’s kind of a sad thing. I walked a mile and a half to get to that.
MR. HUNNICUTT: I was just sitting here thinking about – how did he know whether the egg was good or bad and he was willing to trade with you. He could’ve gotten a bad egg, and you could’ve gotten good candy. It didn’t turn out that way. Judge, it’s been my pleasure to interview you. Definitely will be a big contribution to the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History, and whoever may pull it up and read about it will be very pleased with the information that you’ve given us today.
MR. TUNNELL: I’m pleased here. I got the building here. I bought the building. That’s one thing we didn’t cover. I bought it from people from time to time. There were 17 of us that bought the building to begin with, and I was the unlucky one just to keep buying it. I bought the whole thing. It’s in my name alone now. It’s a corporation. I’m the only stockholder in the corporation.
MR. HUNNICUTT: That brings up one final question here for you. What was in this building originally in the early days? I remember one time the telephone company was in either this building are the one that’s been torn down.
MR. TUNNELL: It was in this building – the telephone company was in this east one. This was built for Eastman, and it has been declared a historical place. When they selected it as being the best kept building in Oak Ridge, I was the first one. I think you should get a picture of that ship I was on and all those pictures outside in my hallway. Could you get that?
MR. HUNNICUTT: Is there anything else that you’d like to recall that we haven’t talked about? We could probably sit here all day and think about a lot of things.
MR. TUNNELL: I’ve got all these things. This is the best thing that’s ever happened to me is Miss Margie here. We are so happy together. We’ve been married 18 or 19 years. By the way, I did practice law with Howard Baker. I graduated law school at the same time Howard did. We were good friends together.
MR. HUNNICUTT: There is something else before I forget it. Show that picture of your son and tell the story about Sgt. York.
MR. TUNNELL: Well, with Howard Baker. I believe that the only time Howard practiced law could’ve been with me because we had some cases down here just outside of Oak Ridge, where the mining company had let the water drain down. It got real deep, and the silt from the mining washing – we filed suit against that. Howard and I handled that. Sgt. York – we went over one time to Pall Mall, where the sergeant lived. Somehow – I don’t know. We went down to his house where they had bought this beautiful place down there. The government had bought that for him, and the state of Tennessee had given him several acres of land. There’s a big stream that ran down through there. Anyhow, we got to talk to him one time, and he just fell in love with my son. We would go over frequently and talk to him. Ms. Gracie would come to the door, and she would invite us in. We would go in, and he would talk to us. He would tell us about how he killed all those people over there. He told us reluctantly – he did. Jim said “You did that all by yourself?” He started crying and said “God was with me. No person could have walked up that hill with them shooting right straight at you as good as they were without the Lord being directly. He was with me. God was. He was with me. When I came back, they tried to get me to take a $1 million to tour the United States, but I said this uniform ain’t for sale.” I thought that was great. We went over there one time to see him, and he was pretty sick. We knocked on the door, and Gracie came to the door. She said “I’m sorry. I don’t think that we can see you today. He has already turned down a United States senator and a governor. They all wanted to come in and talk to him. They came here, and he said he didn’t feel like it. However, he might have a different opinion about Jim. He loves that child so much.” She went in and came back and said “You all come on in.” We went in. That’s the time that he took the picture there. I remember Jim said “Where did you learn to shoot like that?” He pulled the bed back. They had a bed there that the American Legion had given him, and he could roll it whichever way he wanted to. He said “Right over yonder on that hill – that’s where I did that shooting.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: Sgt. Alvin York was a World War I hero that had killed a lot of Germans single-handedly and saved his regimen or his group of men.
MR. TUNNELL: That’s what he did. On this thing, he went up that mountain, and he captured way over 100. He killed about 30, I think maybe. He had a whole bunch that were right in front of him, and he was shooting them from behind because he learned how to do that shooting squirrels or something. When you see two or three that were lined up or turkey – that you could shoot the one from behind, and the one in front didn’t know that the one behind was falling. He used that same technique. When he captured all these people, they went up to the place – they surrendered to him and put up the white flag. He got up there and said “Where are all the American forces?” They said “They are to the left.” He said “Platoon right.” He turned them to the right, and they came and down through there and said he came at all these people. They said “By God, here comes Alvin York. He’s captured the whole German Army.”
MR. HUNNICUTT: Gary Cooper played his part in a movie, and you told me that he went and lived with Sgt. York.
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, he lived there with him. He definitely did. He lived with them all the time and learned how to speak and talk his language and everything. I watched the show. I’ve seen it several times. Of course, it was fantastic.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Did he actually wet the tip of his gun barrel before he would shoot, like in the movies?
MR. TUNNELL: Yeah, he did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: So the movie pretty much dictated exactly what happened…
MR. TUNNELL: Cooper did a fantastic job on that. When they got it done, he wanted to take a picture of Jim. I said “Do you think they’ll take a picture?” When he said that, he said “Yeah,” and he put his arm around Jim, and I took that picture of them there with Jim. He loved Sgt. York. He had that in his room when he died – Jim did.
MR. HUNNICUTT: Judge, thank you again for letting us come into your office and take this interview. It’s been my pleasure to do that.
[End of Interview]