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It was noted in there the possible futures of C&C franchise and one of the alternatives will be discussed here:

WHAT DO YOU THINK THE NEXT C&C SHOULD/COULD BE, AS AN ENTIRELY NEW GAME?

new game = new story line at least, new units, etc.

Given that the debate has a broad purpose forcing people to make endless texts, there are below some subjects you could consider to organize your thoughts, no need to approach all of them, it's just a checklist:

Working Name (if you have it) & Genre

Aesthetics

Mechanics

Story/Plot

Technology

Personally, I'll give some days, before I write my options.

As I'm willing to make people step up, this is my fake proposal - make fun of it if desired, but don't comment unless someone really suggest something similar later*:

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Guest Stevie_K

Guest Stevie_K

As a C&C fan and game design student I feel I highly encouraged to come with my personal shot at what a new C&C could be:

I've tried to keep it as short as possible without leaving out what I believe is important for the idea.

Command & Conquer: Tiberian Legacy

Real-time strategy game for PC and Mac.

After the Tiberium conflict culminated in a nuclear war which only a fraction of humanity survived, the planet was for two decades thrown into a state of silence and isolation. As the Scrin disappeared and human communites started forming again, the struggle for power and control slowly started to stir anew, indicating that the nuclear war was no end, but merely the conclusion to a chapter in the conflict.Much of the planet has become wasteland and freezing tundra, yet the tiberium crystals have spread without end, transforming large regions spawning unimaginable environments full of mutated lifeforms.Man is still recovering from the day 26 nuclear warheads put an end to the war. The hazardous and tormented planet is up for the taking for whoever has the swiftness and strength to spread their power.While a new generation of Nod revolutionaries and fanatics embracing their former leader Kane, are growing swiftly in power and popularity, wealthy and powerful survivors and corporations are attempting to re-establish the Global Defensive Initiative to protect what is left of humanity against the threat of a world dominated by Nod.

The gameplay builds upon the classic RTS formula: Build a base, gather resources, advance in technology and produce military forces in order to combat the enemy.

The gameplay emphasizes on forcing the players to adapt to a broad variety of different environments. The environments will pose as much of a threat as the enemy forces, and will have to be taken into consideration with every manoeuvre. Players will not be able to stick to a few specific play patterns but will have to learn to master different environments and the combinations of these.

Large amounts of technology is lost in the nuclear war and the technological state has seen a throwback to that of the year 2035 just after the Second Tiberium War. The race for recovering lost technology is vital in this new conflict.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Stevie_KNo large font sizes please

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The gameplay emphasizes on forcing the players to adapt to a broad variety of different environments. The environments will pose as much of a threat as the enemy forces, and will have to be taken into consideration with every manoeuvre. Players will not be able to stick to a few specific play patterns but will have to learn to master different environments and the combinations of these.

Large amounts of technology is lost in the nuclear war and the technological state has seen a throwback to that of the year 2035 just after the Second Tiberium War. The race for recovering lost technology is vital in this new conflict.

Thanks Jehal,

I'll draft something in the weekend. For now, let me make some comments:

- I too like the idea of having the environment to become an "agent" in the game play. Some random events must occur to force the player to alter its conventional strategy during the game;

- The "wreckage planet" scenario is a rich idea also - instead of having a linear techtree, would be good to find shortcuts or have multiple techtrees, depending on what you can get.

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I actually drafted (and am still drafting) a whole new take on the entire C&C universe. Put it all on a couple of .rtf files too, so will upload them later when the last few bits are done.

Essentially, things will kick off at the end of Yuri's Revenge. The tentative title for the first of 6 parts (going from RA to TW) is Red Alert 2: Chaos Theory. It'll be an RTS and a mod for Tiberium Wars (I kinda like the engine, though I do know the RA3 engine looks cooler and stuff). Here's the intro summary I wrote:

"The Allies have succeeded in defeating Yuri's psychic forces with the aid of the Soviet Union. A new lasting peace treaty was formed between both factions in the wake of Yuri's defeat, with both President Dugan and Premier Romanov pledging to collaborate and rebuild all that was destroyed in the long war. Unfortunately for them, Yuri's legacy yet lives on in the form of his most promising disciple, Alastor. Bent on freeing his master and continuing where they have left off, Alastor leads a new legion of fanatical psychic warriors against the combined might of the Allies and Soviets."

I must apologize in advance, though, as some elements of Chaos Theory are heavily influenced by Mental Omega's plot and units. These will be changed if anyone has some better suggestions to offer.

So there will be the three major factions duking it out: the Allies, specializing in high tech, high quality units; the Soviets with superior firepower and now some flexibility (due to a faltering economy); and the Psychic Legion rebooting Yuri's Psychic Army, specializing in stealth, psionics and advanced weapons tech.

Gameplay's going to be the usual C&C fare: build bases, mine ore, build an army, win. It's going to employ the RA3 system where (almost) every unit gets a special ability, and there will be support powers available to each faction and are faction specific (like the Top Secret Protocols in RA3). Each faction also has sub-factions that add new units, buildings and/or support powers, much like Kane's Wrath. I don't think there's gonna be any new features to add, but again this is open for comments.

I have to admit that I'm quite new to the entire C&C universe, especially the Tiberium Wars one, so I'm sure that there will be a few errors here and there in the plot and what-not. In any case, below you can find the first document that details each factions' unit, base structure, and support power line-up, as well as a few extra bits of stuff.

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Rebooting C&C?Although it is much cleaner to burn down the old and bring in the new in a reboot, that would only work if those at the helm understood the story well enough to do so.But in general, reboots like saying:"let's burn down The White House (insert historic landmark/ building) So we can make a 21st century version, that would really be the best way to bring it up to current architectural and technological standards to last for the generations to come."

I doubt anyone still at EA has the knowledge to continue C&C in a significant direction.Skill and ability is something else entirely.It takes a lot to understand a game franchise, what made it great, why, and how to make that again.With none, of the original C&C or few members still at EA, it's hard to imagine them pulling it off.

That doesn't mean C&C's story isn't salvageable, it just takes the right team to do it, people who are committed to C&C, who grew up with the franchise, those who are willing to take the risk of making a classic RTS.

Does EA currently have anyone like that? I don't know.

But the world and the community are starving for something, in the classic RTS genre, Grey goo is a good example of that.

So if you were to ask me about the future of C&C story?Well,I'd have to shamelessly plug my project, since that's exactly what we're aiming to do.But some frown on such opportunistic self serving promotions.

So, if I wasn't part of or knew of my project, what would I say?

How can you move forward if you don't know where you've been?How can you know where you are now, if you don't know where you've been?How can you move forward if you don't know where you are now?

Those core questions are what needs to be answered, in life, and in this.

So?In order for C&C to really thrive, and continue, it needs to once and for all let go of some of it's past.

That means making a story that doesn't center around Kane, this is because Kane's story arch is 15 years old, to find people that can make sense of all of that, and bring him back, takes a lot of work. And part of the point of why Kane was so effective as a character, was because of the mystery, answer all the questions and then people move on to the next puzzle.

But leave things purposely ambiguous?

they can debate forever.This doesn't mean you don't need answers, you just hint at them, don't get us "Lost."A simple example as to the power of stories:A fellow writer friend once told me, "I prefer books to all other forms of media because nothing can compete with my imagination."

As a story writer, it's important to understand that,It's in the interpretations of the text that give it depth.

Another simple example?Literalism vs. interpritationism when it comes to religious text.

Steps to take in figuring out what to do next in C&C?(I'll assume there is already a competent team and financial sponsorship)

1,determine what is to be done with TT2. based on decision from 1, analyze the appropriate backlog of C&C history to support 1. and then find natural story lines & patterns that could be potential directions3. continually refine the direction, a truly good story has a message and style, craft it.4. Define how this potential direction and story is relevant to your audience & the world then, now, and the foreseeable future.5. If you haven't already in the process of 1-4, engage with as many key contributors to C&C throughout the years, to collect their thoughts, by this, I don't mean show them your finished script &GDD and get their approval, I mean, ask them open ended question on how they see C&C continuing, and what C&C means to them. (maybe a little focusing on your themes but give them a chance to speak. They will most likely know more than you, so understand and respect that.6. comb through all this data, looking for consistent themes7. See which of those themes fit in the scale scope skill and budget you have available.8. Look at the competition in the RTS market, what did/do they do well in their titles/ franchises?, and why do people like and play these games.9. listen to the community, by this, I don't mean do waht the community tells you to, I mean actively engage the community, making them feel heard.10. repeated 7 & 8 until you get the results you where hoping for/ expecting.11. Support user created content in an intelligent format.12. Keep your intensions clear and above board to everyone all the time.13. Go make sense of all the information you've gathered, and present it in a way that may potentially suit your community, refine it continuously.14. Formally apologize and act in ways to make up for the past, or at least, acknoldge that significant mistakes were made15. Release and develop on an appropriate schedule

And there we go,A "check list" of sorts to get C&C back on track, a point for every year eh? let's hope it doesn't take that long.

Kane was right in TT, he was running out of time, we all are. The # of those C&C veterans that care are getting few and further between, most are/ have already moved on.

Now go sit back and ponder what I've said, and do nothing about it, as most people do, because of one simple reason, "that sounds like a lot of work"And who are we to do anything about it?It's easy to sit here, and blather on about nostalgia but who has the time and ability to do something these days?Well ya, you're asking how to resurrect and breathe life into a franchise that's had significant setbacks, many of them, which seem due to incompetence somewhere in management, not the actual developers. Not to mention getting official EA support has been, let's say "more than difficult than any time before."

TLDR?Learn from the past, listen to the present, and leave a legacy for the future.

And if your curious about my project and story and How I'd continue C&C ?

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I thoroughly agree with GeneralJist. When something has gone a long run and having been so popular all this while, it can be hard to come up with something fresh to go well with the whole story arc. Hence, with C&C being at this point whr it seems to be hanging, it's hard to say if there will be a future for the franchise. Unless EA decides to do smthg abt it without screwing it all up.

I think for a lot of fans, there is an appeal to reboot the game and see what is next for GDI & NOD. But from what I hear and read, a lot of ppl rly disliked how TT ended. And hence why ppl keep askin for a C&C5, so that a proper conclusion to Kane's story can give closure to the Tiberium Wars. But that is wishful thinking.

So I guess there exists among us those who look at the what-ifs of the C&C universe. Mental Omega explores a whole new Ra2 universe and how Yuri rises to power; Twisted Insurrection dabbles with the 'what-if' should NOD win the First Tiberium War. The appeal in alternate universes is smthg we shouldn't pass up, cuz at least it gives us an opportunity to play around with the universe's storyline the way we see it without really making big changes to the existing storyline. And using the steps u outlined above, through the modding community, we're kinda fulfilling the whims/wishes of C&C fans itching for smthg new and different in the C&C world.

Like me and my Chaos Theory and the alternate Tiberium Wars: though it has influences frm both mods mentioned above, I just kinda like how this new story kinda makes things a little more interesting in how the events in RA2 and then Chaos theory will then culminate in a very different TW world.

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it's all well and good to have parallel timelines that don't mess with teh core storyline, but from the way things have been going, and are, I take the stance of why wait when you can act?

I'm glad C&C has still a solid moding community, but the thing is 90% of mods look at the past of C&C, and TBH, we've had enough of that, this questions is asking about C&C's future, and without EA at the helm, why not shave the community step up?

That's always been how I look at things tho.

If a job isn't be done right or done at all, go do it yourself and see what it's like.

I'm really sad that these days people look to Blizzard as the king of RTS, expecting them to lead RTS into the future. Where the original innovation came from others.

Far be it to me to tell the community to not just burn a book because they don't like how it ended.

We've had Kane for 15 years of C&C, lets see how C&C stands without him.

If you can pull that off, then you've demonstrated you truly understand C&C.

But if all roads lead to Kane, then what real innovation has been done?

In most other contexts, we'd be board out of out minds.

But not Kane oh no, not Kane....

Wouldn't it be more interesting to see a story where everyone's just cleaning up after Kane's mess?

Then having Kane mess more things up again and again, hopefully one day we'll understand why?

It's natural to want to understand why a person did what they did,

But do you think in life you get to ask a 30 year old just how he/she planned his/her life since they were 15 to get to where they are now?

of a 45 uear old and expect him to tell us since they were 30?

We some how want to belive that there is a perfictly logical explination of everything in the world of why a person did what they did. And A story should have that.

But, logically l is it likelly that after all this time someone writer somewhere that will examine 15 years of dialogue, story and plans across all the Tiberium C&Cs, and have acess to all the inhouse stuf to figure out the true master plan?

It's like how religious folk belive there is a master plan for life, would it really help you if you knew irt all?

Why does there need to be a plan?

If someone handed you a shet of paper, and said, this is everythingg that you will ever do, and why, how ould that make you feel?

Let Kane go,

C&C is about so much more when you stop focusing on him.

(sorry for the typos, I'm tired)

Edited March 2, 2015 by GeneralJist

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You're right on that. A Post-Kane world... what would that be like? No more Tiberium (or at least, controlled growth of it? I never played C&C4, though I know I should...), no more NOD (or is that true?)...

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What about making the game that links Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn together, you know like they had thought of doing originally before RA2, call it Kane Lives. But on a more serious note.

How about a Command and Conquer game set in the late 22nd century, man kind has used up 90% of its resources, things such as water are now in scarce supply. The control of these few remaining resources rests in the hands of the Pan Asian Confederacy. The other nations of the earth facing irrelevancy as their remaining stockpiles dry up, from an alliance to take what remains of man kinds resources away from the Confederacy, and a new World War is sparked.

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What about making the game that links Red Alert and Tiberian Dawn together, you know like they had thought of doing originally before RA2, call it Kane Lives. But on a more serious note.

How about a Command and Conquer game set in the late 22nd century, man kind has used up 90% of its resources, things such as water are now in scarce supply. The control of these few remaining resources rests in the hands of the Pan Asian Confederacy. The other nations of the earth facing irrelevancy as their remaining stockpiles dry up, from an alliance to take what remains of man kinds resources away from the Confederacy, and a new World War is sparked.

Or we can rename the the PAC into the Pan Asian Coalition and have them face against the European Union in an ice age. We'll call it Battlefield 2142.

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Battlefield 2 is a good game. Why don't EA just make an RTS version of it for the Generals sequel, a simple modern warfare game with GLA is a good enough game for a Generals 2 with some C&C stuffs in it like resource collecting, power planting, base building, etc.

Same goes for Tiberian sequels, just an RTS remake of Battlefield 2142 is good enough. I like dystopian future settings, with Earth resources are scarce, global warming and ice age happens, tiberium spreading, etc. Tiberian Sun is good with all those walkers, playing at snow maps reminds me of Star Wars. The Firestorm campaign reminds me of Days of future past and Terminator. A dark and terrible future is what I'm hoping for.

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I think that C&C just needs a new universe to just create some hype and support for future games... basically, a C&C that takes place during the late 21st century where, the humans that inhabited Mars during the early 21st century now have grown Mars to be a economical, and technological society. The Mars government have decided to rage war against Earth (for some reason the writers decide is a good enough reason) and now the UN (or any other organisation that does the same thing) has to fight Mars. basically... you remember that level in RA2 YR where you went to the moon... something like that... except you harvest minerals in Moon's rock and Mars Rock.

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I think that C&C just needs a new universe to just create some hype and support for future games... basically, a C&C that takes place during the late 21st century where, the humans that inhabited Mars during the early 21st century now have grown Mars to be a economical, and technological society. The Mars government have decided to rage war against Earth (for some reason the writers decide is a good enough reason) and now the UN (or any other organisation that does the same thing) has to fight Mars. basically... you remember that level in RA2 YR where you went to the moon... something like that... except you harvest minerals in Moon's rock and Mars Rock.

Nah... noone is looking at the plot so much. Just make a short glimpse in StarCraft. It's mostly something in between "Bold & Beautiful" and some space-operas from the late 80's. The main characters are not developed, the Terran space expedition is shortly briefed in manual, and player isn't even sure is the "zergification" of Kerrigan was part of Mengsk plan, or was it just a pure luck and huge coincidence, that Overmind needed a mental man to his zoo. It's very tough to write a plot for RTS, because you can't focus storyline on one character. There are too many factors to describe motives of protagonists and antagonist in circa 15h game.

Mostly, what makes an RTS perfect is balance and game mechanics, which CNC was lacking. Also game engine was an achilles heel in most of Westwood productions. I just want to remind you, how many times TS crashed during connecting to Internet game, or how the game was slowing down in both TS and RA2, after a while. It's great that CNC community have people who can fix those issues, but those things should be done by full-time employees, not hobbyists from around the world.

I really miss, that Westwood / EALA / VIctory Games were defunct, but - to be honest - i prefer to play fully polished titles, rather than crappy game rushed in less than year, which dies in natural death sooner than lasts lifespan of housefly.

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Well, ya, I'd say when writing a story for any game, RTS especially, it has to be about larger than life themes, and ideas or technology that spans generations.

Finding something like that. that hasn't been done to death and has mass appeal is a challenge.

Another thing about RTS, is having it space themed id risky, the entire point of waging war boils down to spreading ideology and land acquisition. Moving things into boundless new worlds and new planetary conditions are risky, since it somewhat undermines those concepts.

I don't think there has ever been an RTS that has spanned multiple worlds, having travel between worlds takes time, and waging war in space and new planets all take high amount of investment.

There is an inverse relationship between the amount of space and the # of interacting forces in said space.

High amount of land, few people in the land, less chance for interaction and conflict.

Low amount of land, high amount of people . more chance for interaction and conflict.

(same relationship with potential "fun" in an area.)

So, if we battled over planets that's a lot of space, for conflict to happen properly between said spaces, a lot of opposing forces, of large groupings of allied forces would need to exist.

Hence, I have always maintained that C&C should have earth bound conflicts.

As soon as we go to bigger scaled places, we need bigger scaled forces to fill that space for proper RTS style conflict to occur.

@ Traymen,

I'd disagree

Balance and mechanic issues are different from server hosting & multiplayer logistics.

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I've been told by former EA employees, that EA works based on market viability, by that, I mean, they look at the market at a point in time, see what's popular, and then tries to make that.

Unfortunatelly that's a very reactive way of conducting business, a good strategy, but not somehting that will typically bring innovation.

So, the best thing that could happen to have a chance for EA to bring C&C back? In m oppinion, Grey Goo & the few other non Blizard RTS's needs to go off the charts.

SC2 was head up by Dustin Browder, one of the lead C&C developers.

So he's applied his experience to the "competition", as most of us see it. So, you'd either need to get him back, or find someone that can rival that.

Thie issue isn't about what we want really, nor how much we want it.

It's about where are the RTS/ strategy game devs, and what are they doing now.

RTS is a very different animal than any other genre.

You can;t just paint a faction with different colors, and a few different technologies, and have it work (as in FPS, MMO, RPG, etc.)

Strategy is an ongoing intellectual puzzle, an investment of mind, soul and techology.

But sure,

Although, my 15 points o the other page should be clear.

B. All of them, and or the most successful ones, it's weird, the C&C community has always been conflicted, modders are usually so cought up in their own projects, they don't want to help others, this trend isn't unique to C&C moders, but it's very prolific, especially in hte old days, still now tho.

C. In all my time moding, the only potential leader I've ever seen the C&C community rally around former EA/ weatwood employees.

There was a project atempted by Mark Skags, the modidng community rallied to him and the projeect, but but omce they were all gathered, they would only listen to him, and no one else, dispite things being disorganized and vague. People would say, "lets do X" and it'd get shot down by everone else, but as soon as Mark said somethng, everyine hushed up. But then they realized that the project wasn't going to be a "classic RTS" so things fell apart quickly.

Seems they only respect legitimate/ position authority.

Lesson of the story? The C&C community, including moders are incredibly disrespectful toward each other. Find a proper leader is going to be a challenge. Prob, find the most successful moders, and go ask them to ban together. (they don't respect experience as much as they should)

D. Yes. as many former EA employees as posible, see where they are, and ask for them to help in whaever way they are able.

E. It's been like almost 2 years since VG closed, how long are you willing to wait in false hope?, pining away, waiitng for something to get better on it's own?

F. IDK, I don't, but who knows, this is a PR thing though, and you need something to recruit to before you call the media. In other words, solidify hte plans 1st.

G. Your wording is off, you said "did it work" how to avid mistakes, should be didn't. IDK, depends what your talking about, Do you mean if there has been an attempted rally of C&C fans to lobby EA? or do you mean has there been a successful or faild campaign for franchises to be handed over?, Etc.

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... do you mean has there been a successful or faild campaign for franchises to be handed over?, Etc. ...

... yeah, this one.

Thanks for the answer. I probably agree on everything.

Commenting: this is weird and also frustrating, i.e. the fact that is difficult to mobilize the community. Because WW ex-employees will reach EA by their own or via producer, in case of still being in the industry. Here, to mobilize would be to ask EA to make a game and avoiding to define which game, so you could gather more people in accordance with the innitiative.

Related to the beginning of your answer, there's a ground RTS coming called Shipbreakers that might get some attention.