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Soliciting a law enforcement officer for sex just seems so incredibly stupid I am surprised it happens so often.

But, there are police officers who do this as well. There have been several cases over the years here of officers trading sex for letting an offense go. My cousin is a state police officer and I suspect he's done it, but no proof. He's "joked" about doing it.

There was a case here a few years back, where undercover officers were going to massage parlors and busting them for prostitution. The only problem was the officers were getting their rocks off first. They claimed they thought they needed to go to completion for hard evidence, pun intended. They knew better, but wanted to partake before making the arrests.

Unlike Miami Vice, Vice units do not go undercover living on yachts and bust drug dealers. Vice units are referred to as the Misdemeanor units because they handle prostitution, massage parlors & ABC violations. For an Officer to go fully nude at a massage parlor that actually need prior approval from the Area Captain. When that Officer is full nude they do at times go further than just getting a massage paid for by City dollars. I have heard of it happening before when an Officer went too far and said there was no violation.

I have zero problem with citizens filming Police Officers. If the Officer is doing their duties currently they have nothing to worry about. When an Officer is using force to take a suspect into custody the definition of that force is the minimal amount of force needed to overcome the resistance of the suspect, if an Officer is following those guidelines they have nothing to worry about. When on a traffic stop it is Yes Sire, No Sir, and Yes Ma’am & No Ma’am.

When on a traffic stop it is Yes Sire, No Sir, and Yes Ma’am & No Ma’am.

So in essence, I should take the role of a child and treat them like they're my parent? I strongly disagree. As a person who has had my rights violated by police officers on more than one occassion, I can tell you that is one aspect about them that I dislike.

So in essence, I should take the role of a child and treat them like they're my parent? I strongly disagree.

The police should be the ones referring to the citizens as sir and ma'am not the other way around. The citizen is your boss, the police are government employees. A government "by the people and for the people."

The cameras in the Police vehicle are only forward facing and are not always recording, the camera only starts to record when the red lights & siren are activated otherwise you would have 12 hour & 45 minutes of film footage to search through for every incident. As for the cameras on the individual Officer I have heard of them but you will not see those on large Departments because simply there is not enough $$$ to make it happen.

You say there are roughly 2,200+ Agencies using these cameras, well there are roughly 588,000 Police Departments in the United States so what does that work out percentage wise?

As referring to Yes sir, No Sire, Yes Ma’am & No Ma’am I was referring to an Officer toward the citizen not the citizen toward the Officer.

I find this thread interesting..... not sure why people look at police as "the enemy"? Yes, there are some corrupt cops -- just like there are corrupt >>>>fill in the blank<<<<. It is unfortunate and they should be reported and removed. The majority of police officers do their jobs to help keep the peace -- they certainly don't do it for the sky-high salary. Given the danger in their jobs, I think they are grossly underpaid.

The police should be the ones referring to the citizens as sir and ma'am not the other way around. The citizen is your boss, the police are government employees. A government "by the people and for the people."

Umm, everytime that I have ever been stopped -- I was referred to as "Sir" -- I also "sir"'d right back. Nothing wrong with being polite. Oh -- and you are NOT their boss -- that is a crazy view of this. So, by your logic -- everyone paid with tax dollars should kowtow to you as their boss?People look for reasons to disrespect the police because they represent authority and people don't like authority figures ............. that is until they need one.

I find this thread interesting..... not sure why people look at police as "the enemy"? Yes, there are some corrupt cops -- just like there are corrupt >>>>fill in the blank<<<<. It is unfortunate and they should be reported and removed. The majority of police officers do their jobs to help keep the peace -- they certainly don't do it for the sky-high salary. Given the danger in their jobs, I think they are grossly underpaid.Umm, everytime that I have ever been stopped -- I was referred to as "Sir" -- I also "sir"'d right back. Nothing wrong with being polite. Oh -- and you are NOT their boss -- that is a crazy view of this. So, by your logic -- everyone paid with tax dollars should kowtow to you as their boss?People look for reasons to disrespect the police because they represent authority and people don't like authority figures ............. that is until they need one.

Mike

Mike,

I agree with you 100%. I pay taxes so does that mean I am my own boss? You work to Serve & Protect the people. During my time with the Police Department 3 Officers I knew were killed in the line of duty, several others were killed that I did not know but were still on the same Department. You do get paid nicely but not all that great to see the horrible things you see on a daily basis. It is not like you work for the Fire Dept. and called to get a cat out of tree, on the Police Dept. you are called when the you know what has hit the fan and hit it hard. I did not care how pissed someone was at me, what names they called me during a traffic stop it was always sir & Ma’am, sometimes being polite gets people you are dealing with even more pissed because they cannot get a rise out of you. 7 time out of 10 when you are pulled over your attitude dictates in what direction that traffic stop is going to go. It dictates if you are getting a ticket or being let go with a warning. I used to have a private policy that any hard working citizen that had the right attitude got away with a warning no matter the violation, the wrong attitude always results in a violation/ticket.

So in essence, I should take the role of a child and treat them like they're my parent? I strongly disagree. As a person who has had my rights violated by police officers on more than one occassion, I can tell you that is one aspect about them that I dislike.

I've been in the same situation - more than once. Yeah, yeah, yeah - I get it...."it's so dangerous and lay their lives down, etc etc." Unfortunately, every encounter I've ever had with a police officer - save one minor one - has resulted in more harm than good for me, and they've acted like power obsessed assholes.

I have nothing but anxiety and distrust whenever I see one, and want nothing to do with them. Wish it wasn't so, but that's how it is.

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I've been in the same situation - more than once. Yeah, yeah, yeah - I get it...."it's so dangerous and lay their lives down, etc etc." Unfortunately, every encounter I've ever had with a police officer - save one minor one - has resulted in more harm than good for me, and they've acted like power obsessed assholes.

I have nothing but anxiety and distrust whenever I see one, and want nothing to do with them. Wish it wasn't so, but that's how it is.

I never had a bad exp with an Officer, never arrested, never given a ticket and always waved at Officers as they drove by before I came on the Police Dept. I am not saying this is the case in your case but criminals attend to attract cops and have bad exp with Officers again not saying that is you, it just happens to be that way 95% of the time.

There are just sooooooo many examples of bad cops that its hard to say "it's just some bad apples."

From the many examples of small business having to fork over $$ as protection (implicit or as the many free donut or discounts at best buy examples that have discussed ---which by the way is the same exact thing the mafia does), to the many examples of police brutality (again woefully common all across the US and internationally) to the mundane things they do all the time. Not to mention the treatment of minorities and gay people.

My favorite example of police misconduct is the "blue bear sticker." Are you all familiar? Pay attention to other vehicles on the freeway and notice how many people have small stickers of a blue bear on the back window. Police officers and their family members put them on their car to identify themselves as police so other police officers don't give them tickets.

There are just sooooooo many examples of bad cops that its hard to say "it's just some bad apples."

From the many examples of small business having to fork over $$ as protection (implicit or as the many free donut or discounts at best buy examples that have discussed ---which by the way is the same exact thing the mafia does), to the many examples of police brutality (again woefully common all across the US and internationally) to the mundane things they do all the time. Not to mention the treatment of minorities and gay people.

My favorite example of police misconduct is the "blue bear sticker." Are you all familiar? Pay attention to other vehicles on the freeway and notice how many people have small stickers of a blue bear on the back window. Police officers and their family members put them on their car to identify themselves as police so other police officers don't give them tickets.

And you wonder why there is distrust of the police? Come on

Yes "ALL" cops treat us gays so badly -- that is why I had 3 of them at my wedding.

And........ there is nothing all that odd about someone giving a professional courtesy to another. Happens all the time, in many professions. is it right -- probably not, but that's the way it is. For every example you can come up with about a bad cop -- I am sure there are hundreds of examples of them helping others. So -- I can't undo anyone's bad experiences, but to label a whole profession as "suspect" over a few (and in the total scheme it IS a few - not "woefully common" at all) is what is really bizarre to me. The fact that you can't even admit that the police do good things says volumes.I'm done with this thread now, given that you are throwing my father and brothers into your generalization -- I'm apt to get myself a timeout.

One last thing -- this attitude is exactly what led to the shameful treatment of soldiers following Vietnam - bad apples -- absolutely -- all of them, hell, no -- not even close.

I have no doubt that the vast majority of police officers are great people. It is unfortunate when the bad apples dominate the view of officers. Our force isn't a huge one here, compared to other cities. But, there seems to be a story per month about an officer doing something illegal and using their position for personal gain, or for revenge on an girlfriend or someone they just don't like.

I've mentioned here before how I grew up with an alcoholic father, who abused my mom. When I was about 5, we were taken away. A police officer took us to a children's home. For some, they may actually blame the officer. But, I didn't. On the way there, he took my brother and me to McDonald's and bought us a Happy Meal. I will never forget that. He seemed to be stalling taking us there, and got us something to eat. All we got at the home was soup. We were there for a few days, until my aunt came to get us.

In fact, I've been thinking about trying to see if documents still exist, so I could find out his name and whether he is still on the force here, or lives here. I would like to thank him for his kindness. I remember he was very young. I would say in his 20's, so he very well could still be on the force. I just have no idea where to start. I suppose I could write a letter with our names and the approximate date. Perhaps someone would be willing to take the time to search the files.

Anyone who refers to the Police Dept in the same light as the mafia in my book is a misguided fool.

I just read a book by Michael Corbitt, with Sam Giancana, where that mob boss (Giancana) got Corbitt into police work in a Chicago suburb, to help the mob. It was a tell-all book, almost better than Donnie Brasco (but not better).

When I was a strung out heroin addict, I worked in a strip bar as a (you guessed it) stripper. There were police that came in there different times during the night. As long as we sexually serviced them, they looked the other way concerning the drug dealing and prostitution that they knew went on there. A sheriff in the county I live in (Ralph DeMeyer) got sent to federal prison for taking money from a madame to protect multiple whore houses. This was years ago.

I can't tell you, when I was on the streets and yes, a drug addict, how many times my friends were assaulted raped, robbed etc., and because they were shady characters the police wouldn't even make a report.

I'm not saying that all police are bad. I've met some reputable ones. Maybe it's just the town I live in. One of the last police officers to get killed in the line of duty got killed because he was robbing drug runners. Maybe it's because this area is so close to Chicago, the seediness spilled over. Who knows.

As I said, I've met good cops. But there are bad ones also, sometimes it seems more than good. Maybe in certain areas.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 07:45:40 AM by BT65 »

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

I just read a book by Michael Corbitt, with Sam Giancana, where that mob boss (Giancana) got Corbitt into police work in a Chicago suburb, to help the mob. It was a tell-all book, almost better than Donnie Brasco (but not better).

When I was a strung out heroin addict, I worked in a strip bar as a (you guessed it) stripper. There were police that came in there different times during the night. As long as we sexually serviced them, they looked the other way concerning the drug dealing and prostitution that they knew went on there. A sheriff in the county I live in (Ralph DeMeyer) got sent to federal prison for taking money from a madame to protect multiple whore houses. This was years ago.

I can't tell you, when I was on the streets and yes, a drug addict, how many times my friends were assaulted raped, robbed etc., and because they were shady characters the police wouldn't even make a report.

I'm not saying that all police are bad. I've met some reputable ones. Maybe it's just the town I live in. One of the last police officers to get killed in the line of duty got killed because he was robbing drug runners. Maybe it's because this area is so close to Chicago, the seediness spilled over. Who knows.

As I said, I've met good cops. But there are bad ones also, sometimes it seems more than good. Maybe in certain areas.

I have never once heard of an incident close to this taking place on the Police Dept in which I worked for. I worked Narcotics for quite sometime and never once not one time even heard of a rumor of any story like this happening.

As for not taking reports from shady characters is a HUGE sign of false police work. As a Police Officer you are on the street for 8 hours a day when a prostitute and/or drug addict is on the streets 24 hours a day so they have the intelligence you need. We used to give out food and/or money to street folk and get all types of intelligence on outstanding murders, who was holding and where we could find wanted individuals.

I will agree that in any Agency including the Federal Government that are evil people with no morals but to paint the whole lot of them as bad is just misguided.

I tend to not really trust the Government even though I served in various aspects of the Government Military & Police Department. I tend to lean more towards what the Government tells us to do as Conspiracy than truth.

In as much, a lot of people do not trust the police in the same manner. And you were actually part of this group and you didn't even trust?

I've often mentioned in these forums that my father and grandfather were retired deputies and my uncle is our local police chief. I have 2 other uncles who also serve.

I still don't quite understand the point of this thread. I'm just glad the OP threw it out there to support all of us who have no idea how our judical system works.

In as much, a lot of people do not trust the police in the same manner. And you were actually part of this group and you didn't even trust?

I've often mentioned in these forums that my father and grandfather were retired deputies and my uncle is our local police chief. I have 2 other uncles who also serve.

I still don't quite understand the point of this thread. I'm just glad the OP threw it out there to support all of us who have no idea how our Judaical system works.

What is an OP?

Correct I do not trust the Government. I do not trust a two party system. I do not believe our vote counts. I do not trust the word of the Government when they tell us one thing and it later proved to be a false statement with the intent to mislead.

In the Military I was a part of Operations that one would deem as shady in nature that I wish I could elaborate on.

As you stated I was trying to help to let others see it from a different aspect but that seemed to have backfired and only brought out the haters & secret criminals.

You must have worked in a utopian police department. Because in the city I live in, there are very corrupt officers. I do not paint "all" police as corrupt, but many of them are. I totally get street people knowing what's going on, I knew a lot when I was on the streets, then a couple years ago when working with the homeless, I found out a lot about what was going on.

But I can tell you, when I was on the street and one of us thought about reporting a crime, well, it was just disappointing. If it was a hooker, well, the cops said they "deserved" it, if it was a drug addict, they also "deserved" it. It was totally pointless to report crime while being a drug addict, much less a prostitute.

I admit that not all police are horrible, but you need to admit that not all police are good, upstanding. Of course that happens in most every profession. But to say and actually believe, all police are honest, is just naive.

« Last Edit: October 13, 2012, 09:33:26 AM by BT65 »

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

You must have worked in a Utopian police department. Because in the city I live in, there are very corrupt officers. I do not paint "all" police as corrupt, but many of them are. I totally get street people knowing what's going on, I knew a lot when I was on the streets, then a couple years ago when working with the homeless, I found out a lot about what was going on.

But I can tell you, when I was on the street and one of us thought about reporting a crime, well, it was just disappointing. If it was a hooker, well, the cops said they "deserved" it, if it was a drug addict, they also "deserved" it. It was totally pointless to report crime while being a drug addict, much less a prostitute.

I admit that not all police are horrible, but you need to admit that not all police are good, upstanding. Of course that happens in most every profession. But to say and actually believe, all police are honest, is just naive.

I agree that in any profession that are bad apples. I took an oath to Protect people from the scum of Earth and on the street the 98% of the people who work to keep food on the table by being honest are terrorized by the 2% of street criminals. We had a saying in our unit 'We intimidate those who intimidate others.' I will firmly admit I would not care what happened to that 2%. I never knew an Officer or Detective that took a bribe or money that did not belong to them. When you use the word 'many' it makes it seem like there are more corrupt Officers than good ones.

I agree that in any profession that are bad apples. I took an oath to Protect people from the scum of Earth and on the street the 98% of the people who work to keep food on the table by being honest are terrorized by the 2% of street criminals. We had a saying in our unit 'We intimidate those who intimidate others.' I will firmly admit I would not care what happened to that 2%. I never knew an Officer or Detective that took a bribe or money that did not belong to them. When you use the word 'many' it makes it seem like there are more corrupt Officers than good ones.

Hi Remy:I do appreciate you starting this thread....That said, I had to bold something you wrote above that belies what is a major issue.... a cop's view that they are protecting people from the "scum of the earth" goes completely against the American judicial system which states that a person is "innocent until proven guilty."

When I was arrested and spent time in Miami Dade County jail - I had not been convicted - I was just arrested - In fact, to this day, I do not have conviction on my record..... however, the conditions at the jail, the way I was treated by officers, and correctional officers, was based on the presumption of guilt - not innocence. An innocent person would never be treated the way I was - and a person who was presumed innocent would never be referred to as "the scum of the earth." I'm just sayin'

I do my best to respect officers - truly do.... I do have issue when one rolls up to a stop light and does not want to wait like everyone else and puts on his/her lights to go through the light and then cuts their lights off once they get to the other side..... A sense of entitlement and that the law does not apply to them. Or parking whereever they choose - when, if I did the same thing, I would be given a ticket for it.

The last time I was pulled over, I was profiled.... I had my partner in the car and we were going to get his scripts.... Cop pulled me over - for absolutely no reason. He never gave a reason. Asked if he could search the car; Asked if either of us had ever been arrested (which we had) and asked what for.... after he conducted his search - he let us go ---No apology, no reason for the stop..... So, incidents like this can cloud one's view of officers - just like the incidents that officers experience can cloud their view of the overall public.

As with anything, there are those who will abuse the system....

But, one thing I am here to tell you ---- the concept of innocent until proven guilty in the US - is a fallacy.

Hi Remy:I do appreciate you starting this thread....That said, I had to bold something you wrote above that belies what is a major issue.... a cop's view that they are protecting people from the "scum of the earth" goes completely against the American judicial system which states that a person is "innocent until proven guilty."

When I was arrested and spent time in Miami Dade County jail - I had not been convicted - I was just arrested - In fact, to this day, I do not have conviction on my record..... however, the conditions at the jail, the way I was treated by officers, and correctional officers, was based on the presumption of guilt - not innocence. An innocent person would never be treated the way I was - and a person who was presumed innocent would never be referred to as "the scum of the earth." I'm just sayin'

I do my best to respect officers - truly do.... I do have issue when one rolls up to a stop light and does not want to wait like everyone else and puts on his/her lights to go through the light and then cuts their lights off once they get to the other side..... A sense of entitlement and that the law does not apply to them. Or parking whereever they choose - when, if I did the same thing, I would be given a ticket for it.

The last time I was pulled over, I was profiled.... I had my partner in the car and we were going to get his scripts.... Cop pulled me over - for absolutely no reason. He never gave a reason. Asked if he could search the car; Asked if either of us had ever been arrested (which we had) and asked what for.... after he conducted his search - he let us go ---No apology, no reason for the stop..... So, incidents like this can cloud one's view of officers - just like the incidents that officers experience can cloud their view of the overall public.

As with anything, there are those who will abuse the system....

But, one thing I am here to tell you ---- the concept of innocent until proven guilty in the US - is a fallacy.

Edited for typos - coffee hasn't kicked in yet....

I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence.

When I say we were protecting Law abiding citizens from the 2% means just that. We patrolled the streets and as they say nothing really good happens after 2am. You would look for the 2% breaking into cars, hanging out in areas they did not belong. We would look for Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color that could mean only one thing that they were hunting for each other. We would patrol homes and look down driveways looking for people just walking around.

The fact of Guilt or Innocence is not left up to me it is left up the Courts, the D.A. & C.A. that is their job not mine. My job was to ensure the hardworking public, the families that were raising that were raising their children could safely walk those children to school without having to worry about getting hit by a stray bullet. I had to tell one to many family members that their son, daughter, mother or father had been killed.

Where I worked we dealt with no persons in custody so I could not comment on the situation you encounter while in custody. We would simply make the arrest, prepare the report and hand the individual off to the jailer for processing.

As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. I disagree with it if it is solely based on race but agree with it if as above stated something looks way out of place like a van load of folks dressed in the wrong color in the wrong neighborhood at the wrong time of night. As for the Officer searching your car the Supreme Court allows Officers to search the wing span of the driver meaning anywhere the driver can reach while seated in the driver’s seat with or without permission. If the Officer wants to order everyone out of the vehicle on a traffic stop onto the sidewalk the Supreme Court has ruled that is allowed. An Officer can ask you any question he or she wants to as in have you been arrested? My favorite question was to ask a gang member in general conversation if they were still on probation or parole, the gang member probably does not remember me so they are not sure if I know and chances are they would answer honestly. If they said they were that consensual encounter now became a legal detention and search because as we all know as a condition of probation or parole who give up right to search and seizure and can be searched every day at any time during the remainder or your suspended sentence.

People are also under the assumption that upon arrest an Officer must read the individual their rights, which is not the case. If you are arrested for robbery, I can ask you questions about your involvement in a murder as long as I don’t ask you about the robbery without reading you your rights. If you volunteer to come into the Station after being released from jail I can question you about a crime you committed without reading you your rights because you are free to go. These are things taught in the Academy. As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

Seroconverted: Early 80sTested & confirmed what I already knew: early 90s

Current regimen: Atripla. Last regimen: Epzicom, Sustiva (since its inception with NO adverse side effects: no vivid dreams and NONE of the problems people who can't tolerate this drug may experience: color me lucky )Past regimensFun stuff (in the past): HAV/HBV, crypto, shingles, AIDS, PCP

Let's take a look at how your words support some of the issues that some posters have with some law enforcement officers: (I apologize in advance - formatting got messed up.... don't arrest me for that )

Your words: The issue:I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence If this is the case see issue on next linewe were protecting Law abiding citizens This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocencehanging out in areas they did not belong. Once again, subjective - who are "they"Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvonpredominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color Martin? And, only mean one thing? that could mean only one thing Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?My job was to ensure the hardworking public So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not workingthe families that were raising their children I better have childrenWe would simply make the arrest There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes ones life. Don't believe me? Get arrested - particularly for having done nothing wrong As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race but agree "solely on race" "something looks outwith it if as above stated something looks way out of place "dressed in the wrong color"like a van load of folks dressed in the wrong color in the "wrong neighborhood" "wrong timewrong neighborhood at the wrong time of night. of night" ----- Alll subjectivewing span of the driver Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan?while seated in the driver’s seat with or without permission. Which explains why officers say stay in the car.... to their benefit to searchAn Officer can ask you any question he or she wants to And I can refuse to answerMy favorite question Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too muchAs they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. And abuse of it by officers is not either

Edit: Also the above is not personal against you - but rather points out the certain frame of philosophy that exist and perhaps in inherant in many who enter law enforcement or who stay in it for a while and are indoctrinated into a certain mindset - and is one of the reasons why issues arise or some of the public has the perception it does.....

Can we speak with you, NO. If placed under arrest give no statement and request to speak with an Attorney.

If an Officer is called to your house they have a right to enter (i.e. Loud Party, Domestic Violence) but other than that they are not allowed to enter your residence, if asked if they can come in answer is NO.

If asked to give permission to search the trunk of your vehicle, do not give it. A Officer can only search your trunk 1. If you give him/her permission, 2. They have a warrant or 3. If your vehicle is being impounded.

If an Officer wants you to go into the Station to give a statement response should be 'Am I under arrest' if the answer is NO, DON'T GO.

Never EVER think speaking to Police is in your best interest because it is not, do not help their investigation by opening your mouth and giving voluntary statements no matter what the case or charge.

Let's take a look at how your words support some of the issues that some posters have with some law enforcement officers: (I apologize in advance - formatting got messed up.... don't arrest me for that )

Your words: The issue:I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence If this is the case see issue on next linewe were protecting Law abiding citizens This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocencehanging out in areas they did not belong. Once again, subjective - who are "they"Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvonpredominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color Martin? And, only mean one thing? that could mean only one thing Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?My job was to ensure the hardworking public So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not workingthe families that were raising their children I better have childrenWe would simply make the arrest There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes ones life. Don't believe me? Get arrested - particularly for having done nothing wrong As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race but agree "solely on race" "something looks outwith it if as above stated something looks way out of place "dressed in the wrong color"like a van load of folks dressed in the wrong color in the "wrong neighborhood" "wrong timewrong neighborhood at the wrong time of night. of night" ----- Alll subjectivewing span of the driver Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan?while seated in the driver’s seat with or without permission. Which explains why officers say stay in the car.... to their benefit to searchAn Officer can ask you any question he or she wants to And I can refuse to answerMy favorite question Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too muchAs they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. And abuse of it by officers is not either

Edit: Also the above is not personal against you - but rather points out the certain frame of philosophy that exist and perhaps in inherant in many who enter law enforcement or who stay in it for a while and are indoctrinated into a certain mindset - and is one of the reasons why issues arise or some of the public has the perception it does.....

I tried to decipher the above and could not.

During my tenure with the Police Department I worked Patrol where everyone starts, I also worked Gangs & Narcotic Surveillance. I worked in a very BAD area, if you are suggesting that Hispanics driving around a Black area at night or vice versa were visiting their friends that could not be any further from the truth. The area in which I worked people do not leave a 10 block radius from their house because of the 2%. White do not go to certain areas, Hispanics do not go to certain areas and Blacks do not go to certain areas wearing certain colors especially at nighttime in force (groups). When this happens there is no question they are either lost or need to be directed to a safer area so they do not become a victim or hunting they are not visiting friends. I do not think out of the 15+ years I worked the streets did I ever run into a group stated above that were visiting their friends at 2am dressed in red in a blue neighborhood.

I in fact enjoyed my job and enjoyed helping people but I never abused my power. I have seen the aftermath of horrible incidents and the wave of destruction left behind when the dust settles.

I am not sure the points you were attempting to raise in regards to the wingspan rule.

OK, this was on the local news (my best friend told me about it). A cop had a warrant for someone and went to his last known address. In fact, two officers went. It was in an poverty stricken area. The two officers didn't even knock on the door, they just barged in. There was an older lady there and a teen. The officers went after the teen, and he headed for his room. The officers tasered the teen and kept saying "quit resisting." Turned out, the teen was not the person the cops had a warrant for. Shit like this happens often here. Maybe you just didn't notice it happening on your force.

Logged

I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Sorry about the formatting of the previous post... Hopefully, the layout below will be more conducive to seeing why some might have issues with perceptions/perspectives of law enforcement officers.... As said before, I think sometimes there are officers who by very nature of entering this line of work are disposed towards these perceptions and there are other cases where the experiences they have while on the force can cause some of these perspectives to come about - and to even seem justified...

Your words: I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence The issue: If this is the case see issue on next line

Your words: we were protecting Law abiding citizens The issue: This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocence

Your words: hanging out in areas theydid not belong. The issue: Once again, subjective - who are "they?”

Your words: Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color The issue: Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvon Martin?

Your words: And, that could mean only one thing ? The issue: Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?

Your words: My job was to ensure the hardworking publicThe issue: So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not working

Your words: the families that were raising their children The issue: I better have children

Your words: We would simply make the arrest The issue: There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes one’slife. Don't believe me? Get arrested -particularly for having done nothing wrong

Your words: As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. The issue: There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race; " something looks way out of place” "dressed in the wrong color” “wrong neighborhood" "wrong time”-- All subjective

Your words: wing span of the driver The issue: Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan? I have been subject to officers searching the whole car – without cause – and far outside “wingspan.”

Your words: My favorite question The issue: Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too much

Your words: As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The issue: And abuse of it by officers is not either

and....... the generalizations run both ways. I can give you proof of many circumstances where cops have saved lives. I am sorry that you have run into some bad ones, but that doesn't make 'em all so.

Mike

OK, that is understood. The part I took exception to was when you said people who have problems with police are people who have problems with accepting authority-- people of authority which I take as meaning police officers.

It's probably true for some. I am sure it's a small percentage though.

I grew up in a predominately African American neighborhood in Miami, specifically Opa Locka. I have been questioned in my own front yard as to why I was there. And, I've been asked to provide identification simply for being white in my own front yard. After a while, you grow tired of it-- the police car suddenly stopping in front of your house when they see you. It makes you feel less than..

Even in my 40's while living in Sebring, Florida I had the very same issues. But I would tell them I didn't have to show them my ID because they didn't have probable cause to ask for it. Yeah, follow me because my wife is black and I'm white...

Perhaps I'm a little bitter, but I wish no harm to them. And no, I don't think all of them are bad....

Have I had good experiences with police officers? Yes, of course I have... When I was Baker Acted in April of 2011 the officer who picked me up treated me with such dignity. He and I spent about 3 hours together. About one hour at the station, sitting next to him with no cuffs on while he did some paperwork, and the rest of the time was a two hour car ride to the facility. I'll never forget as I entered the facility how he patted me on the back, and told me--"Thomas I wish you all the luck man, I hope you can see that that you have a lot to live for".

When you are at your lowest, close to taking your own life.. It's amazing how the words from a stranger can lift your spirits. Certain people are meant to do the work they do. He was meant to be a police officer.

I wish I could say that for all of them.

Also Mike, I apologize for the Mr. ImSoIntelligent remark... it was uncalled for.

Sorry about the formatting of the previous post... Hopefully, the layout below will be more conducive to seeing why some might have issues with perceptions/perspectives of law enforcement officers.... As said before, I think sometimes there are officers who by very nature of entering this line of work are disposed towards these perceptions and there are other cases where the experiences they have while on the force can cause some of these perspectives to come about - and to even seem justified...

Your words: I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence The issue: If this is the case see issue on next line

Your words: we were protecting Law abiding citizens The issue: This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocence

Your words: hanging out in areas theydid not belong. The issue: Once again, subjective - who are "they?”

Your words: Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color The issue: Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvon Martin?

Your words: And, that could mean only one thing ? The issue: Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?

Your words: My job was to ensure the hardworking publicThe issue: So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not working

Your words: the families that were raising their children The issue: I better have children

Your words: We would simply make the arrest The issue: There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes one’slife. Don't believe me? Get arrested -particularly for having done nothing wrong

Your words: As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. The issue: There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race; " something looks way out of place” "dressed in the wrong color” “wrong neighborhood" "wrong time”-- All subjective

Your words: wing span of the driver The issue: Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan? I have been subject to officers searching the whole car – without cause – and far outside “wingspan.”

Your words: My favorite question The issue: Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too much

Your words: As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The issue: And abuse of it by officers is not either

Your words: I never said anything about Guilt or Innocence The issue: If this is the case see issue on next line

Your words: we were protecting Law abiding citizens The issue: This would constitute the officer making a judgment on guilt or innocence.(A Law abiding citizen would be someone who is trying to do the right thing it is that simple)

Your words: hanging out in areas they did not belong. The issue: Once again, subjective - who are "they?” (They are the 2%, the gangster on the street & the drug dealers)

Your words: Hispanics in a predominate black or blacks in a predominate Hispanic area wearing a certain color The issue: Profiling at its best. Can we say Trayvon Martin? (Who is Trayvon Martin?)

Your words: And, that could mean only one thing ? The issue: Really? They couldn't possibly live there or be visiting friends?(There is zero chance and when I say zero chance I mean Z-E-R-O chance a person dressed in red would be visiting a friend is a blue neighborhood. The area I worked is absolutely segregated it was very easy to spot when teams were hunting for each other)

Your words: My job was to ensure the hardworking publicThe issue: So where does this leave those who are not "hardworking" How is this defined? God forbid I am not working(Hard working means you are not part of the 2%)

Your words: the families that were raising their children The issue: I better have children(Families that are trying to live honestly, go to work, be able to walk to the store, take care of their parents)

Your words: We would simply make the arrest The issue: There is nothing "simple" about an arrest - believe me. It changes one’slife. Don't believe me? Get arrested -particularly for having done nothing wrong (An arrest is pretty simple what happens after the arrest is not my problem and/or concern, I did not put the person in that situation I am just cleaning up the mess following).

Your words: As for the traffic stop, I agree and disagree with profiling. The issue: There is so many issues here....I disagree with it if it is solely based on race; " something looks way out of place” "dressed in the wrong color” “wrong neighborhood" "wrong time”-- All subjective(As long as it is not solely based on race I am totally fine with it)

Your words: wing span of the driver The issue: Since when is the passenger side of backseat or trunk within wingspan? I have been subject to officers searching the whole car – without cause – and far outside “wingspan.”(Wingspan is ANYWHERE the driver can reach when seated in the driver seat, glove compartment, back of passenger seat, rear seat just not the trunk without a warrant).

Your words: My favorite question The issue: Sounds like you enjoyed this a bit too much(As I stated I enjoyed my job and miss it at times but do not miss the stress that comes along with the position)

Your words: As they say ignorance of the law is not an excuse. The issue: And abuse of it by officers is not either(Ignorance of the Law is a term used by the Courts).

OK, this was on the local news (my best friend told me about it). A cop had a warrant for someone and went to his last known address. In fact, two officers went. It was in an poverty stricken area. The two officers didn't even knock on the door, they just barged in. There was an older lady there and a teen. The officers went after the teen, and he headed for his room. The officers tasered the teen and kept saying "quit resisting." Turned out, the teen was not the person the cops had a warrant for. Shit like this happens often here. Maybe you just didn't notice it happening on your force.

On the Department I worked for several safeguards were in place to make sure this did not happen but even with the safeguards in place it still happened from time to time. If you have a warrant that means all evidence you currently have has been reviewed by a Judge who agrees and signs off on the warrant for service. I could care less if it a rich or poverty stricken area that really means nothing. The teen headed for his room was he running away? Who does that?

Thanks for the responses Remy - As I said, nothing personal.... just some observations....As in any field, there are the good and the not so good (although, officers are, and should be, held to a higher standard - by nature of the profession).

I actually have a few friends who are officers...One recently got out of the line of work because he tired of some of the mentality of other officers.

As Skeebo pointed out, there are those officers who really do go above and beyond and have not lost the ability to connect with other humans and their lives....

I actually have only had a few experiences with the law (mostly traffic related) - fortunately for me, when the court date has been set for a Friday afternoon, they very rarely show up and the ticket gets dismissed

I learned a while ago (at least in regards to traffic tickets) - always plead not guilty.... it usually ends with no points, no school, and only the mandatory court costs.... not the original fine + costs, + traffic school + points on the license....

Thanks for the responses Remy - As I said, nothing personal.... just some observations....As in any field, there are the good and the not so good (although, officers are, and should be, held to a higher standard - by nature of the profession).

I actually have a few friends who are officers...One recently got out of the line of work because he tired of some of the mentality of other officers.

As Skeebo pointed out, there are those officers who really do go above and beyond and have not lost the ability to connect with other humans and their lives....

I actually have only had a few experiences with the law (mostly traffic related) - fortunately for me, when the court date has been set for a Friday afternoon, they very rarely show up and the ticket gets dismissed

I learned a while ago (at least in regards to traffic tickets) - always plead not guilty.... it usually ends with no points, no school, and only the mandatory court costs.... not the original fine + costs, + traffic school + points on the license....

Can you tell I was going to be an attorney at one point in life?

You should never plead guilty for anything….LOL You should always say you are not guilty even if they have you on video.

It is never too late to go to law school.

I left the Department for the Interdepartmental Politics, the stress & more $$$ in the private sector. As I stated in the beginning of this post the main goal of this post is to tell those who I share this Poz status with to totally understand their rights and when to push the issue and when to stay silent. A majority of Police Departments in the States are banking on the fact that you do not know your rights; do not know when an Officer can search or what reasonable suspicion & probable cause are.