Your mention of Pak Mei brought back some memories of my student days in London in the early 70s. At that time (and now) students from the Commonwealth countries (from south-east asia, Hong Kong, India and Africa (pretty much 1/3 of the world) go to the UK for their tertiary education. It was a time of informal cultural exchanges and MA was the great friendship starter, because sooner or later it will come down to 'you show me yours and I'll show you mine' (YSMYISYM)

I met through mutual friends a Pak Mei guy from Hong Kong. Up to then, I've never seen any Pak Mei and so YSMYISYM. The generation of striking power with the phoenix eye to pressure points, although not unique, was impressive and they have specific power training forms with their own brand of breathing patterns quite different from mine. From that time on, I realised that there were more ways than one to do anything.

We did not spar because we have no intention to gouge each others eyes out, though being young with big egos, we did the next best thing -- both do a hard simultaneous block and see who stays the course. Both of us have done forearm conditioning and, after a few hits, we, diplomatically, decided to break for lunch in London's chinatown.

Wing Chun was all the rage in Hong Kong at that time, and London was crawlling with students from that colony who learnt their WC in Yip Man's or his students' schools. I met some and did some light-hearted sparring; light-hearted because if one 'loses' there was no lose of 'face' There were young like me and so I would not call them high level, though it was my first encounter with WC. I was definitely impressed with their 'in your face' approach; my training then was all long range.

It is not easy to really spar with any high level people; because they are few and far between and people like that were and still are not keen to spar. They will tell you MA is for health.

Thats a good story Butterflypalm.The only thing I'm concerned is if the Pak Mei they showed you was real Pak Mei. Believe it or not, here in North America, there are only 2 or 3 authentic Pak Mei schools. One resides in Scarbourough TorontoON, the other in LondonON that is somewhat qualified and maybe a couple in U.S. The rest are as close to garbage or McDojo inherited.

Anyways, I had an awakening experience a while ago. I've seen all the TMA's & MMA'ts out there, but after seeing Pak Mei and what this art is all about, I decided this is the one true fighting art I want to train for the rest of my life.

A friend of mine who trains Pak Mei introduced me to the art. He's twice my age, but after I had one lesson with him, I decided that sparring would be pointless because I would just end up hospitalized if I start playing games with him. Not only I realized how destructive the pheonix eye really is but I also learned about utilizing the entire body (and I mean the ENTIRE body) and how powerful soft power really is if you get good at it. I could never even imagine that in White Crane which I studied for 2 and a half years, or Karate which I studied for 4 and a half or MMA'ts which I'm doing right now for 1 year. Its just overwhelming to me.And to imagine that lame statement that all TMA's are strictly SD oriented, is just B.S. its a fighting style, one that I am intimidated by more than anything else, and I'm not intimidated by anything besides that.

And your right about one thing, that they don't spar, they will tell you its for health and fitness. I laughed when my friend told me that, right after freaking the hell out of me with those deceptive and powerful moves, ones that I've never seen in the entire MA'ts community.

Does Bak Mei use power generation similar to Hsing I Quan? Hsing I is another no-nonsense style that is considered advanced due to its internal method of power generation, and has a reputation for being extremely powerful. I would like to see Bak Mei demonstrated sometime, and compare to the Hsing I I know. I've practiced the five roads/elements and the five element connecting form, but I still haven't really got the right internal power yet.

Yup, I would say Pak Mei does have some elements of Hsing Quan style your talking about. Pak Mei is a style on its own, but it had intervention with other styles from what I know. "The essence of Pak Mei kung fu lies in utilizing the inner power (ching), not plain strength. Using ching is intricate and dynamic; using strength is dull and blunt. The principles of Pak Mei stresses six-ching, eight hand techniques, concept of swallow/spit/float/sink, shocking effect, and evolving continuously." From what I've noticed, if there is any style that uses the one inch concept, Pak Mei probably uses it most efficiently.

Pak Mei is a combination of externa/internal concept. Or more like Buddhist(Shaolin)/Daoist concepts mixed into one martial art. Would I say that its more effective than any MA? No, Xingyi is also internal, (almost purely internal at the higher levels) and a punch could be lethal. But Pak Mei's flavor and techniques are unique. But if you were to apply your xingyi to Pak Mei (Xingyi uses pheonix eye too) you might see a similarity or even more effectiveness.

Once you realize the different types of "jing" and ways of applying it, styles will be of no importance.

Actually, Xingyi is included in Pak Mei from what I could recall hearing. So thats probably why its very similar to Pak Meis internal concepts. I hear people speak very highly of Xingyi, but it is also hard to find a good school just as hard as it is to find a good Pak Mei school.

Hello Everyone, Im new here. This is the first forum I've ever joined, and may I say its quite invigorating to be able to share my path to my way of life......Eagle's Claw Kung Fu (also know as Ying Jow Pai). Im 22 years old now and I've been studying Eagle's Claw kung fu for 8 Years now. You see me and Sifu's son was Friends for quite a while before I decided to ask him anything about his martial arts life. We use to break dance almost everyday in the Dojo (thatís what I called it at the time) while his father was at work. Well, a year later I finally asked him what style he studies. He told me kung fu. I never thought in a million years that I would have a friend that did kung fu. I thought he did judo or something common of that sort. I got interested and one day I went to class with him. I seen sifu for the first time I was scared, Butterflies and all. He looked so powerful, and quiet. You see, His been lifting weights and training kung fu for 37 years. And everyday of his life since the age of 5 he's never missed a day a training. His Training was Vigorous. He started lifting weights 7 years before I walked into his dojo and after weight lifting he walked straight into the dojo. (One room away) I didn't even ask what style he studied. I walked in there totally blind. He was kind of cruel u see, when I entered I told him that I was Here to join. The Man laughed in my face and said I heard that nearly 200 times in my life of teaching and walked away. His son then walked up to me and said " no one every stays for more then a week so u will have to prove it" I donít know about u guys but man that first year was Hell!!!! The man was untouchable or so it seemed. To even start learning from him u had to do stance training for a year. And Im not talking about cheap stances and talking about 90 degree angle on horse stance feet pointing forward knees out, Very difficult. For those of you who donít know, Eagle's Claw kung fu is known for its 108 locking techniques. Basically 108 ways to rip tendons ligaments bones etc. (Look it up). That first year we went to a MA seminar and my instructor was chosen to fight every student and Teacher there, in a row no breaks for 2 minutes each. That was the day that I truly fell in love with kung fu. One of the styles he used that day was Phoenix Eyes. Thatís why I choose this post. I wish everyone was there to experience what I saw. Not one person there could take him. Iíve seen Snake, Drunken and Phoenix Eyes, Mostly eagle claw, but I was to new to interpret too much. I have never seen a man jump 10 feet in the air and kick a basketball rim, purely unnatural. If anyone wants to hear more let me know I will tell u about the training and tell u about all the different styles I have fought since that day. Itís just unbelievable Im incredibly fast thanks to special training techniques I have endured and till this day he gets every nasty technique he got in on me 8 years ago. For a minute there I thought That I wasn't progressing. He used to tell me that the reason why I feel like Iím not progressing is because the better I, he just keeps picking it up a notch; so, it seems like im still at the same level. Then one day he proved it. We decided to go to different kung fu dojos so he can show me how good I was. WOW!!! Amazing I fought wing Chun, Hung gar, tiger, Crane etc. All I can see is weaknesses and openings. Iím not conceded Iím extremely humble never ever hurt someone I have sparred. My instructor Said " Its a beautiful thing to be able to throw a kick at a hundred miles an hour and watch them freeze on spot then tap them softer then a mosquito landing on your skin". Phoenix eye is similar, well not quite it hurts a little but with control u can spar with it. Everything takes getting use to. U have to remember if u donít train on live movement, and always train on the points on a dummy, u will get rusty , and find it much more difficult when trying to hit a live moving target. Repetition is the key in sparring. Any questions or comments please feel free. Iím not discriminating on styles im just giving me story thanks for listening.

I am very 'knowable' of kung-fu because not say a master but a student taught me and he is in this forum,posting place that we are right now and i know lots of advanced new brazilian submision like the komura for example and i also now some pak mei. I do also train wing chung and white tiger also white crane. They are mostly advanced and i used to know tai kwon do but i quit. I really like to syle brazilian ju jitsu submisions and white tiger. Please tell me about some moves in one of my favourite styles if u know it.