Sports shooters considering Sony's speedy a9 have one major hurdle to overcome: glass. There's a dearth of long, fast primes available to Sony FE shooters, and it seems like using off-brand glass while you wait for Sony to catch up just isn't a great option.

In this video, photographer Dan Watson of Learning Cameras tried both the Sigma MC-11 and Metabones Mark IV lens adapters to test how well the a9 worked when attached to the Canon EF 300mm F2.8L IS USM and Canon EF 400mm F2.8L IS USM (both version 1**)

Watson mainly wanted to test the focusing capabilities, and unfortunately, the results were somewhat disappointing.

Before you dive into the video, it's worth pointing a few things out. Our own Rishi Sanyal has tested the focus capability of the a9 with adapted lens, and points out a couple of caveats to Watson's otherwise solid points:

First, the performance of far off-center AF points depends on the lens. While Watson is correct in pointing out that they don't perform well with long lenses (despite working astonishingly fast with Sony's own 100-400 F4.5-5.6), they do work well with shorter focal lengths (we've had success with a Sigma 85/1.4, Canon 35/1.4, 24-70/2.8, etc.). With these wider lenses, 'Wide' area mode will continue tracking subjects to the extremes of the frame.

Second, Sony A-mount lenses adapted with the LA-EA3 adapter do shoot at an impressive 10 fps with autofocus, something we confirmed with the 50/1.4 (as long as you've updated the firmware of the adapter).* With the Metabones and Sigma adapters though, as with all Sony FE bodies, only the L drive mode offers continuous focus. And it's actually only 2.5 fps, not the 5 fps Watson mentions (technically L is 3 fps, but it slows to 2-3 fps with continuous focus).

With that out of the way, Watson's video is a great resource for seeing how well (or not) the a9 performs when attached to the long, fast Canon primes sports shooters love. And while single-shot focus with central points is speedy and almost 100% accurate with long adapted lenses, the lack of true subject tracking (Lock-on AF modes) or continuous focus at speeds higher than ~2.5 fps (or in video) will probably be a deal breaker for many fast-action photographers.

Once you've lost the impressive high speed shooting advantages Sony baked into the a9, you might as well be shooting with any other camera. Moral of the story: stick to Sony glass and hope they keep churning out new lenses at break-neck pace.

You can watch the full demo for yourself up top. And if you're considering jumping ship from Canon to Sony, keep this information in mind – like all previous Sony bodies, you'll only have access to the a9's slowest continuous drive mode when you're adapting your own glass.

*We've not yet confirmed the performance of off-center points with long A-mount glass.

** Correction: The first version of this article claimed the lenses used were the 300mm F2.8L II and 400mm F2.8L II. They are, in fact, Version 1 of both these lenses. The text has been corrected to reflect this.

I for one admire A_Sign's commitment, and note that he displays more intellectual rigor and personal integrity than the misguided "equivalence" fanatics whose mindless zealotry usually pollutes these comment sections.

@avatar: you are correct. Sometimes when I'm bored or my wife is mad at me I make postings that I later regret. If you want to measure my level of environmental harm, I do less polluting than an Iowa farmer, but more than a municipal coal-fired power plant in a medium-sized city.

Real world use and not a bunch of hate from Sony Haters who never picked up a Sony Cam

I shot the A9 for two hours taking in the match and post-match celebrations, and it wasn’t until after 75 minutes play that I remembered that the A9 has an electronic viewfinder. That’s how much things have progressed. No black-outs, no issues with focus, in fact I think the focus is quicker and more reliable than any other camera I’ve used. The images were stunning, using the 100-400mm lens, with quite a bit more detail in the shadow areas than normal, and no missed shots other than when I was conserving battery power as I was switching off and on. The camera is so new, we had no accurate idea of how many shots I could take. In fact, I took over 1500 images and that used up only 48% battery power which is bang on, and I was viewing a lot of them back in the viewfinder so see how the equipment was handling the job.

@A-Sign - You're really out of touch. In today's world, there is a close integration of information/reviews and "camera shops". There are many popular Youtube camera review channels that are from camera stores. Look at TheCameraStoreTV: https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCameraStoreTV

In fact, dpreview.com is owned by one of the world's largest camera stores: Amazon! You're basically at an Amazon "camera shop" right now!

So it's completely idiotic to say that a review associated with a camera store site is not valid. It's perfectly valid, because that's how things are done these days. Camera shops have integrated product reviews and articles on camera equipment into their overall existence. It's the world of digital media.

The reality is that you don't care about independent reviews. You're going to ignore them anyways, because your extreme bias against the A9 won't allow you to even consider them. Thankfully, there are plenty of independent reviewers who aren't like you.

Haha :) A runner that isn't very fast with 12 fps continuous? This is simply dumb stuff from amateurs renting a camera.

Do you know what is really challenging? Birds in flight for example with a super telephoto. Or Motorcross sports where the bikes are jumping into the air or fast vehicles captured very close. This is nothing more than a trial to catch the absolute amateurs who have never seen how real sports and action photographers are working.

You should see some Nikon videos with some pro photographers that are working with their D4 or D5. Entirely different kind of animals than this lame stuff you try to show me.

Would you believe everything what Tony Northrup tells you on his YT channel? He operates his YT channel to earn money with clicks or to sell you his books or to make "promotion" with gear.

Sorry, pal, but the joke's on you, because the D5 maxes out at 12fps continuous! The D5 can't handle anything faster than 12fps continuous. So maybe you should be laughing at the D5! Hahaha! D4S maxes out at 11fps. D4 is even slower at 10fps.

Here's A9's continuous tracking of bird in flight, even against a busy background (not just clear sky):

" Sorry, pal, but the joke's on you, because the D5 maxes out at 12fps continuous! The D5 can't handle anything faster than 12fps continuous. So maybe you should be laughing at the D5! Hahaha! D4S maxes out at 11fps. D4 is even slower at 10fps."

The joke is your comment which is disrespectful to be honest against the work of pro photographers. Basically you discredit their work with such comments.

The point is: He was able to capture it all - even on the D4. Have you watched the video at all?

You are trying to sell a point which is out of interest. None of these sports photographers have requested 20 fps because they didn't feel it was missing the shot. It is the Sony marketing that wants to sell you numbers.

It is not even a big advantage because you getting a lot of the same images and redundant data. Did you notice that the pro in the link wasn't firing the whole time continuous pictures? That is what a pro is about. He knows when and why.

@A-Sign - Your argument holds no water because there have been people who always thought they didn't need or want something--- until it was offered! More speed, more AF points, more image stabilizing capacity, higher ISO, etc...all of these things are things that pros thought they didn't need--- until it was offered! Photographers upgrade-- and even switch systems-- for the slightest edge in performance that they can get. It's why some photographers have switched from Canon to Nikon, and vice versa. They are always looking for the slightest edge in performance. If a D4 is good enough, then why do people upgrade!?! Why is anyone upgrading to a D5 that does 12fps, at the hefty price of $6500? The Canon 1D MKIV was also 10fps. If that was good enough, then why is anyone buying a 1DX and 1DX II that does 14fps, for $6000? Your argument holds no water. People always want the higher performance spec once it is offered.

It seems 20 fps is the only thing what counts for Sony shooters here :) That's a laughable argument but it gets repeated like broken records. I am out here - this is getting too boring and narrow-minded with you guys :)

A-Sign, time to take your medication, man. You're the narrow-minded one. Your desperate attempts at constantly demeaning the A9 are getting old, and failing. Why not just let market forces take their course? That was my opinion back in the early 1990s when Nikon and Minolta users were constantly bashing Canon's new EOS system. Now I see it happening with Sony. Geez, just let everything take it's course. Frankly, just like I felt about the EOS system, I see tremendous promise, innovation, and advancement with Sony's system.

The feature set is outstanding, not just a whole lot lighter, but more useful too, such as the silent shutter that I was able to use in the press conference. Now I can’t wait to try the longer prime lenses and also the camera grip, I shot all these images without a grip as the new battery grip had yet to ship, which is pretty amazing from a handling point-of-view. So, I think it’s absolutely fair to say that the A9 is the start of a whole new ball game for sports photographers, action and wildlife shooters, right here, right now.”

The A-series is like "let's rush this product quickly out of the door"... what amuses me are all these overheating problems they are still having on these A6000 - A6500 models. Although the problem was already prominent in the first model they didn't change anything to solve it entirely. That's why i don't put my money at Sony cameras.

Don't get me wrong, Sony makes great innovations and pushes the envelope all the time, it is just that their products seem to have issues.As for the A6000 a friend of mine has it, no overheating, the sensor just gathers dust easily. For the record, my first DSLR was a Sony A100, which is still in use by a good friend of mine who loves it to bits. I'm not bashing Sony, I'm just repeating what Jared found in his real life samples of his A9. It's a problem and a rather serious one at that.

@AnyblunderThe camera uses an electronic shutter yet not a global shutter, it is sailing uncharted waters, I am sure that there are rare circumstances where you might have some moderated banding. Considering how much it has been used already and how thin the reports of banding are (basically 50 photos vs likely millions already shot), that could be even a single camera issue, you and others are with hands high up already.

@A-SignI keep on noticing you tag along every negative post on the A9. Anything better to do with your time?If you do not put your money into Sony Cameras you do not need to make a Crusade against it either. What is your very purpose of posting anyway? Your comments are trash, zero value, zip, nada. Maybe helps you about feeling better about yourself? What is that Sony does that makes you so obsessively bash its cameras? Have you been abused by someone with a walkman?

osv is:Member since 2004In 13 years has listed no gear1 photo of a car that was in a challenge and came in 55th of 61 entries. Spends most of his time attacking anyone who is of a different opinion then himself (Sony is the best)What does that tell you?

@armandinoSony should really test their products thoroughly before throwing them on the market, especially when it's high end. I can really understand people who get mad, when they pay a few thousand to be a beta tester for an unpolished product. That's why I stay with Nikon, they're not known for innovation, but at least the professional products are reliable and don't have childhood diseases.

Nikon is bad example of company that produces "polished" cameras) D600 with oil on sensor, D750 that had 2 service companies(problems with shutter and flare-gate), D810(bright spots at long exposures), D5000 that doesn't turn on...

It's not banding. If it was banding it would stretch across the entire frame of images and be present in all images.

It looks to be a flicker artefact created by the LED advertising boards. It's only visible in the lightest areas where the players are near the touchline (closest to the boards). Note the team in white have regular blocks of black micro dots on their shirts - this is a feature to defeat counterfeiting. This seems to exacerbate it.

The player closest to us has it only on the white areas of the ball and his shirt. Not his arms and legs. He is on the touchline throwing the ball on, thus right by the boards. In the second picture the in-focus player is in the centre of the field away from boards and does not have it.

Fro claims this was under daylight 'and I'm not sure if the artificial lights were on yet or not'.

Given that we've never even experienced banding other some of the harshest artificial light (flickering at 120 Hz, with low duty cycles due to dimming), we think there's literally something wrong with Fro's unit.

I wouldn't extrapolate his findings to apply to all cameras. He himself doesn't - he says 'this is a problem I've experienced with my unit and I can't speak to all units'.

Look at the electronic signs, there is no other interference in those images, so I'm guessing when the sign is showing the brightest images, they are showing up on the whites of the players who are nearby.

I can't see the relevance of this article. If you are already a professional Sony user then you are happy making a living using their own lenses, and you will therefore wait for a big Sony 300mm f2 if you need that sort of length+performance. If you are already a Canikon pro drooling over the a9's 'headline' speed (but listen to all those caveats in the video!) then you are definitely not going to switch to Sony until the necessary lenses become available. Either way, the article seems like a lot of whining that trying to mix different manufacturers' technology doesn't work too well; why should it? The only conclusion is that Sony need to pull their finger out and release some very expensive glass very quickly.

Many people like Sony cameras and in particular the A9 as it is a unique offering on the market. Many of these people also (just like me) own such expensive lenses. Adaptes like Metabones are very common for the very reason that people like to stick a Canon lens on their Sony mirrorless bodies. You might be unfamiliar with this reality. This article and the referenced video are very helpful for us.For instance I would gladly dump my 1DX if the AF of the A9+Long L glass is good enough. For what I have seen so far it would 80-90% with the new firmware. Probably not quite enough for getting rid of the Canon body. My experience with the new firmware is that AF and fps are excellent, however tracking might not be satisfactory for subjects moving toward or away from the camera above a certain speed or closer than a certain distance.

@scokill - That's being short-sighted. Sony will eventually have a complete system for sports shooters too. They are setting themselves up for the 2020 Olympics. And when they fill out their system, Sony users will have the advantage of being able to use Sony system lenses, or Canon system lenses. Obviously, not being limited just to one lens system is an advantage. It gives you more options, more choices, more flexibility. Just imagine if Canon and Nikon systems were interchangeable. I don't think anyone would think that would be a terrible thing. Every system has its particular lenses that are better than another system's. Some particular lenses in system X are better than those in system Y, and vice versa. With adaptability, you have access to those particular lenses.

It's amazing that we've even talking about this cross-system capability. It's a reality. Not long ago, it was an impossibility. Some see this new world as a threat. I see it as a great freedom that we now have.

@osvSo Sony promoters like you are starting to badmouth again over the competition? Is that all what Sony fans like you can do? It must be a sad life for you to have so much hate to write stuff like this. Did you get hit in the face with a Canon camera?

Your credibility is worthless because your agenda is so obvious to badmouth against Canon and Nikon every time you can. If you repeat yourself over and over again with the same FUD and BS it won't become reality but you are becoming ridiculous.

It is a fact that many Sony users are previous or current Canon users fed up with with Canon holding back. Trailing sensor performance was a big drive for the switch and the transition is made relatively easy thanks to decently working lens adapters. OSV is one of them, a CANON user fed up with some of the Canon marketing strategies. I am another one out there in the same boat. Loving Canon system and ability to craft brilliant cameras but overcautious not to step over their marketing strategies. Canon can offer less for more just because is the market leader and a strong established system, used market, compatibility etc.OSV is not a troll, but a very frustrate ex-Canon user, you instead, are a troll.

@Magnar Walthough I would not call donsdavid's call "a big issue" as even the vlogger stressed out that only 2% of the pictures in this very specific scenario showed patters, I am glad that he pointed out a banding situation. The A9 is sailing uncharted waters, critical observation and reporting are welcome.

@donsdavidEverybody reading the comments from these Sony fans downplaying those issues for a $4000 expensive sports camera like the A9 wants to be, which can't handle pro shooting scenarios as shown on the video link are laughing their asses off :)

DId Sony ever test the A9 in real-world scenarios before putting this product into the market? I think this becomes questionable.

@A-Signshould I start pointing out each of your useless posts, since you previously commented that you only make fair posts and no trolls?For once give us some credibility:what is your experience with using the A9 and any Sony camera in general? Actually, with any camera that is not as mediocre as your D600?

@A-Signthat does not answer my question and does not add any credibility to your long list of thin comments. And the fact that you do not disclose what I asked does not make things better from your side.Volkswagens are great cars, experience with them does not help much in discussion of Ferrari performance. Attempting in doing so can only be seen as jealousy, especially at the rate as which you post negative comments.Btw, should I add "this junk product mentioned in the video" in the troll count?

@armandinoYou can drive anything you want. If image quality doesn't matter to you then i suggest you to use a Smartphone camera. Those can also take a lot of pictures per second if that is all what makes you hot.

@A-SignOnce again a typical troll comment. A9 as been tested several time and said over and over that is at least as good if not better than Canikon.Trolls love to find spotty reports on negative performance of things they do not even know and generalize as a big deal.Yes I would definitely add this last one to my troll count. I am loving how your comments are really degrading over time to total brainless and utter trash, just to instigate me. Reputation down the drain. you might want to start a new profile pretty quick, and at this rate think the next two profile names, the current one hardly lasted you 3 days.

@armandino" ...said over and over that is at least as good if not better than Canikon. "

Obviously not if you have seen the video. Canon and Nikon don't have these problems which are called "Banding" by Jared Polin. He has made this statement clear in the video that only the A9 is having this image quality issues.

@A-Signhe also said it was visible on about 2% of the the pictures and it is basically the only report with at this point millions of pictures taken with A9 around the world.So, no it is pretty much irrelevant at this point unless many more cases pop. I have taken thousands of pictures myself in all sort of artificial light conditions and still need to encounter such issue.So, yes inflating an issue you know little about=troll

@A-SignIt has been used by me and many others in arenas with flickering lights with no issues. Even here only 2% of the shots probably in a very peculiar combination of conditions otherwise it would have shown throughout the entire shoot. The 2% disappears easy considering that you shoot 40% more than with a D5. And this is in a very unique condition.Generalization, generalization generalization. I repeat no real knowledge, no personal experience, find the first clue on line to bloat the issue and bash = troll.

Most of them by people who have never even held a super telephoto lens attached to a Nikon or Canon pro body nor ever will. But are now experts on using these lenses and bodies and are now so confident on how superior the A9 is in comparison.

The comments are mostly from non-Sony users seizing the negative conclusion of the headline as justification for bashing Sony.

Their anger and jeering is reminiscent of crowds at historic public executions or floggings. And you have to question their agenda - as well as their arguing skills and even intelligence - in some cases.

@Don Lacy" Most of them by people who have never even held a super telephoto lens attached to a Nikon or Canon pro body nor ever will. But are now experts on using these lenses and bodies and are now so confident on how superior the A9 is in comparison. "

Haha, this answer is great and speaks about the truth. You will find a lot of these "Sony Alternative Facts" here that you start to wonder how professional Nikon and Canon photographers could survive at all doing their jobs. It is so extremely exaggerated what is going on here.

@ Rubberdials give me a break and put your big boy pants on. It is just a camera a tool to make images with. What it is not is a game changer the 1DXII and D5 are so good at what they do it's going to take more then what he his camera offers to get people to dump a proven system to jump to the Sony ecosystem. The A9 is getting no real mention in the wildlife forums and I would guess on sport forums either.

@A-sign thats the thing unless you shoot in the conditions that we regular use these cameras in you have no clue. The last time I was at Bosque shooting there were mornings when I had to chip the ice of the back of my 1D that formed from the moisture in my breath. If I had to guess mirrorless and DSLR will both be around for a long time.

I really don't appreciate the way that this Sony thing is taking attention away from the Panasonic GH5. That revolutionary camera is the REAL story of the year, not this crazy Frankencamera that's going to be obsolete in six months when Sony brings out the A9II.

So, let's drop all this infantile Sony, Sony, Sony talk and get back to what's important please.

Didn't Sony just make everyone mad by bringing out the 6500 shortly after the 6300? Or am i misremembering?But that's beside the point. I want more stories about the GH5 and its new lenses and this is the internet which is supposed to cater to my interests, not the questionable impulses of a bunch of Sony lovers and their unholy mania for using Canon lenses.I always feel like I have to sterilize my computer after reading about them.

You're not misremembering. The A6500 did come out very quickly after the A6300. The A6300 was actually delayed so there was a longer period planned between the launches, but the real issue is that one isn't a replacement for the other. I'm not sure if the failure to understand this is wilful or accidental on the part of Canon and Nikon users, but the A6300 wasn't a replacement for the A6000 and the A6500 wasn't a replacement for the a6300. They are three independent offerings and constitute the Sony Aps-c mirrorless range.

Even if the a6500 had been a replacement for the A6300 it wouldn't be wise to extrapolate other camera developments from one example.

I'm sorry DPreview isn't giving you what you want - the site is the best it's ever been in my view but they do drop the ball from time to time.

This article and video is a prime example. They are re-publishing someone else's findings with their own caveats, but it still falls below the standards they have recently set themselves.

One doesn't necessarily "replace" the other. They are all meant to be in the market concurrently-- but at different price points. And one doesn't make another "obsolete". They all work great. But if you pay more, you get more.

Sorry, I was trying to be humorous about how what you expect—that the spring/summer news cycle would be dominated by a long debate over whether the GH5 is good enough to replace both standalone DSLRs and camcorders—turns out to be wrong. Instead the photo world is transfixed by the drama of whether the A9 will ever reach its potential with non-native lenses.

Neither the Sony A9 falls short with Canon lenses attached nor Canon Lenses fall short when attached to a Sony A9. Rather, some "unpolished" adapters fall short to make Sony A9 and Canon lenses work together...

Well said. It's not Sony or the A9 that are falling short with these adapters and adapted lenses. It's the firmware of these adapters that is falling short, which Sony has nothing to do with. It's like blaming the camera manufacturer for the poor rendering of RAW files in Lightroom or ACR or some other RAW processing software. That's on Adobe or whoever is making the RAW software.

Would it have been nice for them to have released it at the same time as the A9? Sure. But is this gap in time between the A9 release and their first telephoto prime release going to even be remembered a year or two from now? Probably not. It'll be ancient history. Besides, all this free PR the A9 is getting is priceless. We're all talking about the A9. Right now, we're all talking about how the A9 can AF track with adapted telephotos (which other cameras can't do at all). A few months from now, we'll be talking about the A9 again, but with native telephotos. Then, there will be side-by-side tests between native telephotos and adapted telephotos on the A9, and we'll talk about that. Overall, other than a few nasty trolls, these conversations have been very good, and drawn a lot of attention to the A9. Seems like a net win for Sony.

PR is off the charts. But that doesn't pay the bills. If they don't get enthusiasts and mom/pop with a lot of disposal income to take photos of li'l Johnny and Suzy it's not going to go well. It's priced too high IMO.

The other role of the A9 is to be a "halo product", which helps sell lower-cost downstream products. I certainly think it will help boost the sale of Sony's other mirrorless cameras. The A6000 is one of the top three best selling ILC's on Amazon.

Not too long ago, it would have been totally unbelievable that a Sony mirrorless camera could be one of the best selling cameras on Amazon. But all of Sony's mirrorless cameras are selling well. Among mirrorless cameras, Sony sweeps the top spots on Amazon's mirrorless sales rankings.

@scokill,For sure it would have been better if the A9 were released together with fast telelenses. But maybe Sony does not have the resources to do it ? And it would have a been a stupid strategy to delay the release of the A9 until those telelenses are available. Because now that the A9 exists, there are certainly some sports photographers who suspend the purchase of Canikon gear to see what Sony will offer...

@Karroly" Because now that the A9 exists, there are certainly some sports photographers who suspend the purchase of Canikon gear to see what Sony will offer... "

Who and where are these people? Are these professional sports photographers that are waiting instead of buying the equipment they're needing now to do their job? (which is only available from Canon and Nikon)

Would be interesting to know what is going on in their minds - can't be reasonable at all.

I don't think a pro will dump all their Canikon gear and jump in to an A9....they can't. The most likely scenario is for the Canikon shooter to add an A9 to the bag and give it a go...but they would need to purchase at least the Sony 70-200 2.8 so you are talking about a $7000 investment for dipping your toe in the water and perhaps the 100-400 that you could only reasonably use in the daytime...so that would be a $9,500 investment. So for the Nikon shooter that could fund a 200mm f2 and other glass, additional body, new body, etc. etc.

I was on a sideline for spring football game in May and saw several recently purchased D5s and chatted with those photogs. These guys are pot committed to their purchases for 3-5 years IMO and most are probably in the same boat.

@scokill - "I don't think a pro will dump all their Canikon gear and jump in to an A9....they can't."

That's exactly why adaptability is such a great option. It's something that no other system has ever been able to offer. For years, Canon and Nikon have been battling between each other, trying to get people to switch from one system to the other. Yes, *plenty* of people have switched. There are countless Canikon "switch" stories on the web. Whole agencies have switched.

But all these previous times, it meant dumping all the previous gear due to total system incompatibility. But not anymore.

Now along comes a camera system that doesn't force you to dump all your gear-- at least not all your Canon gear. (I hope good smart adapters will eventually come out for Nikon lenses.) That makes it a lot easier for buyers! It's definitely a different world. It definitely changes the game. After all, look how much we're talking about it!

If adapters can provide the absolute best performance that the camera can give then Sony can make some hay. I wouldn't count Nikon or Canon out. If they can get close to the A9 Sony will have a tough row to hoe...and even now it will be difficult for Sony.

@scokill - "If adapters can provide the absolute best performance that the camera can give then Sony can make some hay."

Most people don't need "absolute best performance." I have a ton of Canon lenses that I can now use on Sony bodies. It's okay if I can't get AF all the way out to the outer focus points with these Canon lenses, because I wasn't getting that on my Canon bodies anyways. I'm okay not having 20fps AF tracking, because no DSLR has that anyways. But what I will get is IBIS, which is a big bonus for a lot of EOS lenses that don't have IS. Looking forward to A9 tech to show up in Sony's lower bodies. Lower fps would be fine with me.

As for Nikon and Canon, they aren't making a whole lot of movement. Canon is notoriously slow. And Nikon poured millions of dollars into the 1-series mirrorless system that went nowhere. They made 13 lenses for this system! And it's basically a dead end! Waste.

I think people will also understand that adapted lenses are a reasonable compromise. You may not get "absolute best performance that the camera can give", but you didn't have to buy a whole new lens! That's a fair trade-off that people now have the freedom to make. If you want "absolute best performance that the camera can give", then you buy the native lens. I think for most users living in the real world, that's something that is easy to understand. It's just in the irrational world of equipment forums that people are demanding "absolute best performance that the camera can give" from off-system lenses. Just a few years ago, that idea would have been cuckoo...the idea that non-system lenses would AF at all. Now we have people crying that non-system lenses won't do full 20fps AF tracking (when no DSLR can do that in the first place)? This is all quiet surreal.

@T3You are riding on this 20 fps argument the whole time. It's like watching bean counters and accountants who are looking only at numbers.

Who does really need it? Most professional sports photographers have cameras with 10 - 16 fps performance using a mirror and mechanical shutter. None of these photographers have ever complained about the fps performance!

In contrary to that if you need the mechanical shutter on the A9 because you can't use the electronical shutter due to banding issues with artificial light the Sony A9 does accomplish only 5 fps !

@T3..So anything less than the "revolutionary AF", and 20 fps takes away it's only strengths really, or any strength that would make a Canikon shoot jump ship. Someone who makes a living would want the absolute best performance or why switch? Also the output isn't that great at higher ISO....3200+ IMO, and the colors don't do much for me.

@scokill - "Someone who makes a living would want the absolute best performance or why switch?"

That's the beauty and genius of the Sony system: you don't have to do a full switch! In the past, you had to do a full switch because of total system incompatibility. But with Sony, you can add an A9 body, and still use Canon lenses. Why would you want to add an A9? Because you want a secondary FF body that can shoot 10fps with your Canon lenses, and don't want to spend $6000 for another 1DX II. And you want IBIS because Canon doesn't make a stabilized 24-70/2.8L. And you want to shoot with zero blackout. And have situations where you want to shoot completely silently. And an A9 adds very little size and weight. There are plenty of reasons why someone would want to add an A9. Like I said, it does not require a full-on switch. When budget permits, you steadily add native Sony lenses. It makes for an easier transition. It's a huge advantage that has never really existed before.

You don't get the point. So at 10 fps you are downgrading in the allegedly all important 20 fps and you don't have the full effectiveness of all knowing all seeing AF. So you are just picking up another camera that you have to have an adapter for your lenses. Significantly inferior at worst, inferior at best. What is the advantage?

@scokill - No, you're not getting the point. You're only downgrading with off-system lenses. What you gain is the ability to hold onto any existing lenses that you may want to keep. What's the advantage? Keeping your existing lenses, adding IBIS, gaining silent shooting, having an EVF that gives real-time exposure preview in a bright viewfinder that allows you to see even in the dark, etc.

If you want the full capacity of the A9, Sony has 22 FE lenses, and more on the way.

Think of it this way: imagine having a camera that gives you access to every lens on the Canon system *and* every lens in the Sony system! That's huge. And *every* Canon lens becomes an IS lens! That's also huge!

If you don't have any Sony lenses and all Canon then there is no advantage at all...period. The only way to get you 20 fps and the all knowing all seeing AF is to wait on Sony, which may or may not deliver long fast primes worth switching, as the best camera in the world with inferior glass is useless, hope that the Sony 70-200 2.8 meets your needs, use the 100-400 5.6 and hope for the best , you can just crop a bunch, or have something worse or at the very best case equal to you Canon body. Maybe reasonable alternative in the future, but not in the near term.

@scokill -- "If you don't have any Sony lenses and all Canon then there is no advantage at all...period."

First of all, it's unlikely that someone is going to buy an A9, but *no* Sony lenses. As for adapting Canon lenses, advantages include IBIS and silent shooting. Also, think of it this way: a 1DX II that shoots 14fps is $6000. A Canon 5D IV shoots 7fps is $3300. A Sony A9 with adapted Canon lenses shoots 10fps and is $4500. For those who find 7fps less than needed, but 14fps is more than needed, a 10fps A9 (with adapted lenses) is the perfect middle ground-- in price too! Then if you use Sony lenses, that 10fps becomes 20fps. On top of that, you get IBIS, which neither Canons offer. Think of how much it would cost to re-buy every non-IS Canon lens as a new IS lens (if Canon offered them). It would add up to a lot. Nikon's new 24-70/2.8 VR is $2400! And it got a lot bigger than the non-VR version. It's a massive lens.

Thanks Brian! Testing this now. Seems to support 10 fps with Canon lenses. You're still limited as to the area of coverage depending on what focal length you're shooting (shorter focal lengths offer PDAF over a wider area).

@rishi Sanyal I have a 400 2.8 IS Canon (on sale in here), maybe you guys could buy it and do all the tests? Or Brian could pick it up in few days (I am few blocks from the sony square where Brian will be, @Sony's). Just trying to help ... I see that you guys are struggling. or maybe I should wait if the adapter works a lil' better so I can sell it to some amateur for a lot more money? Decisions decisions

Sony's OSPDAF operates on fundamentally different principles from traditional PDAF. It falls flat when subject to the same criteria used to evaluate traditional AF sensors. Try tracking a subject with only horizontal detail, for example, and even a Rebel will smother the A9. The speed to first lock is another one - the longer the focal length, the more likely A9 is going to hunt which slows things down. The easy route is to write off new technology because it does not do everything you are used to having. Instead of focusing on finding what the A9 doesn't do, I think we are more eager to find out how features like zero blackout and the complete lack of mirror vibration translate into real world advantages (if at all), and what settings would yield the most desirable results, for example for "Priority Set in AF-C". In the end, what would the overall hit rate/frame rate be like? (Because it is meaningless to talk about one without the other.)

the A9 enthusiasts seem to have no clue about how tracking a 400 2.8 in sports at night under stadium lighting looks like. Remember Galbraith and the Canon 1DIII ? And over there we were talking about a slight delay not even noticeable and maybe in 1 shot over 10 . NOT ACCEPTABLE! Of course the poor 1DIII had the advantage of actually having a native 400 2.8 to play withNow (many years later) we're talking about a possible success of maybe 2% of tracking hits and no such a lens and even trying to make adapters work. It's progress. We are getting better and better now.

You kind of proved my point. If you want to find fault by looking for what a DSLR can do but A9 can't, you will have bountiful success. There is no delusion here - the retest will find the A9+Canon to be no 1DX replacement. (I hope you are not still holding onto the obsolete test results.) Back then Blackberry derided the iPhone when it came out because it was no Blackberry replacement and not only that, by any measure it was no good for the business user. We know what had happened since then. I am not claiming the camera industry is going down the same path, but just don't assume it won't.

@cyberstudioI tested it today with an EF 300/2.8L IS. Yes indeed, it does not track sufficiently fast subjects moving closer and further away if they are close enough to the camera. For instance it had no problem at all tracking pole volt running toward the camera, but track and field was a different story especially once the subject is close enough. I'd say depending on sports it is usable, if you cannot miss the critical shot I would not rely on it. On the up side the frame rate was way up there and very fast in acquiring initial focus. It did best with AF sensitivity set to max, but then it gets very sensitive to foreground subjects.Disclamer: not a scientific test at all.

...and surprise A9 is now fully compatible in high speed mode with Canon lenses. The fanboys of Canon selling their cameras at full speed again....I guess Canon is turning to lens company now that their cameras are not good for anything.

Just stopped laughing at the rumored 6D mk2 specs. A camera slightly worse than 10 year old Nikon. Really is this the best Canon can do in 2017?

Actually, does anyone have an explanation for why Canon keeps putting lousy 4K on their cameras or leaving it off all together? And you're right, the EF mount just keeps getting more and more popular on video cams. It seems to me that Canon is turning into Nikon which is in turn, becoming Exacta.

@Rick KnepperThis is actually a thread about a Sony camera, so don't come here criticising Sony users for posting. Rather ask why non-Sony users are posting in ridiculous, science fiction numbers - literally hundreds and hundreds of posts. One non-Sony user posted 140 times in 24 hours. I am a long-time Sony user and prolific poster and this is my 28th post in this thread.

And what have these posts from non-Sony users contributed?

Nothing. There isn't a single post from a non-Sony user in this thousand post thread offering any insight, suggestions, workarounds or information, they're all just petty abuse and trolling. It took a Sony user to point out that the Canon lenses used in the video were v.I rather than v.II as stated in the text and a Sony artisan that the adaptor firmware was wrong.

And what about your contribution? What has 'The Sony fanboys are quite amusing.' brought to the table?

RubberDials: "...There isn't a single post from a non-Sony user in this thousand post thread offering any insight..."I would say you are off by several 100 in this assessment. It's just that if it's critical, questioning, or anything that doesn't fit your "fan boy" view of Sony it must be dismissed.

@cbphoto123I got to agree with RubberDials that much criticism from non-sony users is either overblown or well know by Sony users already. It is annoying that much of this criticism is bluntly non-constructive. For God's sake there is lame criticism on Sony "Rare Nikon D500 'Rex Edition' still works despite run-in with German Shepherd"what is this people problem? You do not like Sony? Move past it. RubberDials might have been exaggerating by saying "There isn't a single post from a non-Sony user" but you get the message, and I believe he is right. What are people like A-Sign and Cthulion are doing around here?

I think many non-Sony users (and probably quite a few Sony users also) are quite amazed with what passion their fanbase defend their cameras. You really don't find this "passion" amongst other brands (mirrorless or DSLR). This I feel really lies in the Sony Fanclubs court. A sense of still coming up short where it really counts. Facts are what they are.. most Pro's use Canikon and until Sony delivers a product/system that truly not only competes with but surpasses Canikon.. very few are going to make the switch. I am not certain if it was Rubberdials, T3 ..maybe both that have laid claim that all these "Canikon users are conservative and are scared of change" (for not switching to mirrorless/Sony).. but it's these type of (narrow minded/denial) statements that gets people up in arms to point out Sony's many short comings compared to the competition.

@cbphoto123have you ever tried trolling or making reasonable objection on Nikon related threads?Talking of which, you seem to have all Canon gear yet all your recent posts or are on A9 threads? Maybe you would like explain yourself too?

@@cbphoto123" I am not certain if it was Rubberdials, T3 ..maybe both that have laid claim that all these "Canikon users are conservative and are scared of change" (for not switching to mirrorless/Sony).. but it's these type of (narrow minded/denial) statements that gets people up in arms to point out Sony's many short comings compared to the competition. "

This is the reason due to making such false statements and assumptions coming from the Sony community why those people don't get and have any valuable credibility.

@armandino.. the difference is that you don't find Nikon, Canon, Fuji or other brands making such huge claims (on paper) so often.. with a whole slew of fanboys to back them up when they come up short...time and time again.I should add, these same people "defend" Sony by attacking mostly Canikon, on both Sony and Canikon threads. Makes you wonder who is feeling threatened...

@cbphoto123" I should add, these same people "defend" Sony by attacking mostly Canikon, on both Sony and Canikon threads. Makes you wonder who is feeling threatened... "

Actually no wonder that i was in need to make a few responses here. This huge and exaggerated claims from Sony fanboys while downplaying and dumbing down everything else from the competitors was a bit too much. I call this the "Sony Alternative Facts". You could read it like a fake newspaper for propaganda reasons.

"This huge and exaggerated claims from Sony fanboys while downplaying and dumbing down everything else from the competitors was a bit too much" so what exactly are the exaggerations and downplaying?Note that generally Sony users might enjoy talking about the goodies of their cams in their own party, if you do not like it leave the party alone we are not our there telling you that your cameras suck and Sony is better. One of the very reasons is that many Sony users are also Canon and Nikon users so no hard feelings. Not always the way around though.

@armandinoDo you have your Sony sunglasses on? Come on. There are enough examples spread over the entire comments section of this news article. Just read the second reply in this thread here - it is not hard to find...

" Kiril Karaatanasov...The fanboys of Canon selling their cameras at full speed again....I guess Canon is turning to lens company now that their cameras are not good for anything. "

@A-SignNote that Kiril Karaatanasov responded to a troll comment that, wow surprise, was immediately backed up by you. Not happy there you gave him your usual "fake, fake" when he referenced to "rumoured specifications" as posted by Canonrumors. Clearly you love to stick the liar label to people stating stuff you do not want to hear about, recurring pattern isn't it?

Interestingly people here arguing against RubberDials are objectively among the ones with the thinnest and for the most part negative comments toward Sony products.

If these people were somewhat objective, should at least acknowledge the strides Sony is making in innovating: started a new path full of unknowns while challenging companies with decades old systems, refinements over refinements. The A9 as a camera, not a system, with its shortcomings (not much to complain to be honest) is rated as good as the 1dxii and D5, (DPR and many other recognized reviewers on the web would agree on this) this is a huge achievement.

@cbphoto123still would like to see what are these huge claims true only on paper.And still would like to hear from you what is your intended contribution here, Canon user? For instance, what is your personal experience with Sony cameras?

@armandino... honestly these "discussions" have become something akin to debating with a trump supporter. I have handled many Sony cameras both "high end & consumer".. and for the most part they have been disappointing.On the simplest of physical ergonomics designs:Could one possibly place the shutter release in a position that is not 2 cm behind where it naturally should lie whilst holding the camera? (trying to hold the camera, since that also is not ergonomically figured out yet) I could make a very long list, but I find it so amazing that after so many camera bodies at every level of price point.. this so tiny thing they cannot even manage. This represents itself in so many other aspects, where Sony as a "camera producer" falls short.. of most other competition.

They have great sensors and some very innovative ideas, but those 2 things do NOT make a camera in themselves. The execution of tried and true in balance with a great sensor and innovative ideas that have been fine tuned and executed well are what will make Sony a leader.. once they figure it out.

@cbphotoI'm happy to discuss ergonomics with you. Most people bitching about Sony ergonomics don't understand the difference between prior learning, adaptation, preference and fetishisation.

Here's two examples of bad camera ergonomics from Canon:

1) Although Canon cameras have shutter priority mode, they do not use the near universal mnemonic for this - the letter S. They call it Tv, for time value. Since time intervals in photography are called 'shutter speeds' and not 'time values' this makes no sense and is potentially confusing. In practice a new user will be able to guess that Tv is Shutter priority by elimination as the other mnemonics of P and M are universal and Av looks more like it would be Aperture priority than shutter priority. But imagine if Canon had labelled Av as Iv instead for 'Iris value'? Iv and Tv on the dial would not be obvious to a new user as Aperture priority and Shutter priority and it would be a stab in the dark to guess which was which.

2) Canon cameras have a separate on-switch usually located on the left hand side of the body - occasionally on the back. Although this switch is large, clearly marked and with an unambiguous on/off state, it's positioning means the camera must be held with two hands in most cases to activate it. Even if a user finds it possible to turn the camera on with one hand they will not be able to fire the shutter or control the camera without bringing their right hand onto the right hand of the camera. Manufacturers that employ an on/off switch as a collar around the shutter release enable the camera to be turned on with one hand and operated with the same hand. The camera can be turned on as it is being removed from the camera bag. This is an obvious ergonomic improvement over the Canon design.

Sorry Rubberdials.. that really must be the most pathetic defence of Sony's ergonomics yet. That Canon's choice of "T" instead of "S" for for Shutter priority and that you don't like the position of the On/Off switch.

@cbphoto123To me the Sony A7 and A9 are ergonomically crap but that's because they are too small and tiny (like being compact cameras for snapshot shooters) which isn't very practical with a 70-200mm f/2.8 full frame lens. The space between grip and mount can be a problem. The camera grip is way better on Nikon and Pentax bodies, which is important for heavier lenses. I don't understand this because Sony is having the SLT-line which contains better designed bodies.

If i want small and tiny i could use the APS-C Sensor FUJI X-Series or MFT-Sensor Olympus OM-D. Full frame means bigger lenses and that doesn't fit well with a tiny and small camera. It is just a dumb decision by Sony to demonstrate "Mirrorless" compactness with the expense of limited battery life.

@cbphoto123I work as a UX designer. I prototype device interfaces. I doubt you understand even the basics of human interactive design.

Most people who complain about Sony ergonomics don't even understand what ergonomics is. They don't understand how companies research and test designs or the limitations and structures that prior learning and adaption place on using new systems.

No cameras available on the market have really poor ergonomics. If they did people would not be able to operate them. By poor ergonomics what most people posting on here mean is the operation is different to the system they were using before and they must re-learn it. A button is in one place on a Nikon and a different place on a Sony. That isn't poor ergonomics.

You iron-out the elements of your design by testing a user who doesn't know either Sony or Nikon and record how easily they discover the features.

@cbphoto123Canon cameras have great ergonomics, however they would not be ideal for a mirrorless, they are optimized for a DSLR.For instance, in terms of exposure, once you have the EVF for real time exposure, the most effective way to shoot is in manual mode, auto iso (fixed value for some cases) and use the exposure compensation dial for real time exposure adjustments. So, basically the most important dial besides the aperture and shutter is the exposure compensation. Sony has it placed where it needs to be and it has absolute physical positions. To be honest people complaining about Sony ergo sound like people complaining about MAC when they only know how to use Windows. If you have not learned to use the system so it is second nature and you are used to a very different shooting approach you will not like it, but it is your fault, not ergo fault. I like my 1DX ergo but I rather use EVF+Sony A7/A9 any time and I have used EOS system since the 80s'

A-Sign"To me the Sony A7 and A9 are ergonomically crap but that's because they are too small and tiny "I would moderate the statements if I were you. You might have a preference here, but others might not agree, cannot assume that it is crap. A7 and A9 cameras feel really good with large lenses if the hand grip is attached. These camera would weight with a grip like the DLSRs counterparts without, and would be still reasonable compact while easily giving a better shooting experience that a conventional DSLR without it. We could argue all day what's better, the fact is that some prefer one and some the other design, so calling one design crap is inappropriate.

Will see.The measurement range of OSPDAF of A9, while way ahead of any Sony before it, still lacks behind a traditional DSLR AF sensor by a significant margin. (The measurement range is how far your subject is away from your current focus position while the AF sensor can still give you a measurement and tell you exactly how far to move and in which direction without resorting to hunting. Those having experience with a split prism focusing aid in the good old mechanical manual focus film days will have zero problems getting what I mean.)However it is operational all the time - there is no mirror blackout.So A9 is more likely to hunt for the first AF lock. But once it locks, it blazes away at mind bogging speed. I think in professional sports/high-speed photography the latter is more important than the former. They will have no issue developing the technique to occasionally assist the A9 with manual focusing if the fast burst rate gives them enough of a benefit.

I am not saying you will see a bunch of Canons on Sony A9 at the next Olympics. There are non-technical factors too even if all the technicals line up.But I can say this: we have not had a third contender for decades, and even if the A9 turns out to "fall short", the very fact that anyone is looking outside of the duopoly for high-speed photojournalism and actually expects it to be a pretender at the throne at all, can only be considered a win for Sony.

The second thing I have to say is this ain't no A>B. I can name a list of things why you continue to use Canon for your high-speed photojournalism, but there is an equal number of compelling reasons in A9's favour. It is your photography, your style, your personal preference.

@cyberstudioAgreed. AF is always been a tradeoff. You learn to work with the strengths and weakness of your system. I really feel that latter (tracking) is far more important, since, although it might be trailing in locking, it is still extremely fast at it.

@cyberstudio"The second thing I have to say is this ain't no A>B."With the A9 I feel that this is starting to be more academic than real. The same was and still is digital vs film. The shear superior agility of operating this camera vs a conventional DSLRs is the main factor at the end.DSLRs, as much as we are used to them and love them, if you look at them objectively feel as old tech with a new tech slapped in the back. Mirrorless as a concept of operating is far more in line with digital shooting experience, especially now since finally the tech is there for competing with DSLRs performance.

I can report that during the burst, only the speed of the lens physically moving the glass is the limiting factor. Neither the adapter nor the A9 is the bottleneck.Obtaining the first lock is another story (for a 400mm). Canon (even a Rebel) has a clear edge.Isn't the A9 from the start a specialized camera? The A7RII remains the best jack-of-all-trades.

@cyberstudioactually the A9 is the jack of all trades having very little to trade off besides really high resolution and somewhat a bit of DR. The A9 is more all rounded than any other camera on the market in my opinion, compromising very little. Which means it excels at everything. Some things could have been improved such as mechanical shutter speed, S-log and 4k/60fps. But, hey they needed to leave some room for the A9II....

I don't know how to best put it in words, but when someone buys an A9 he/she is certainly not looking for a Rebel on steroids? It must have something to do with high speed action, or else an A7RII would have sufficed.

"DSLRs, as much as we are used to them and love them, if you look at them objectively feel as old tech with a new tech slapped in the back."

DSLR or mirrorless are in the end cameras. Just a tool or a toy, it hardly matters if it has mirror in it or not as long as it is capable of doing the job. the issue i guess here is not about dslr or mirrorless it is about the brand. Most people are emotionally invested in their brands (me too to an extent with sony pentax for example) and asking them to see things objectively is asking too much.

@cyberstudio"I don't know how to best put it in words, but when someone buys an A9 he/she is certainly not looking for a Rebel on steroids? It must have something to do with high speed action, or else an A7RII would have sufficed"Clearly you have a very limited understanding of camera performance and specifications, or you use them in such a way that your photography that is not very demanding. The A9 belongs to a completely different league, and to be honest it is in a league of its own.

@zxaaryes and now. Many photographers see mirrorless as gadgets not good enough to be considered a DSLR replacement. As such never bothered checking out how far they have gone in just a few years, while no much has changed in the DSLR world. Just two nights ago I was shooting a night event with another photographer, good buddy. He was using a D500. He saw my A9 and got curious about it, so I just told him to go ahead and try it out for a few minutes. He guy always stuck with DSLRs never used a mirrorless before.When he came back I he was in complete shock. He could not believe how bright and clear the image was in the huge EVF, how fast it would shoot and how good the AF was. And he did not even know how to use the camera. The D500 might not be FF but it is a highly regarded camera, arguably one of the best DSLrs out there.Many out here are posting gibberish because they never experienced in first person an A9.

@armandino 1, I used the word "not", didn't I? 2, please don't take a post out of its context (of the discussion whether the A9 is a general purpose camera or a special purpose high speed camera).I am of the opinion that the A9 is a specialized high speed camera but I respect @neatpicture's opinion that A9 is a great general purpose camera, too. Either way like you said yourself the A9 is in a league of its own. A lot of photographers are with me in the former camp so while @armandino you are entitled to your opinion you are insulting a lot more people than just myself.But I suppose you just read too quickly and didn't see the word "not", right?

- No-blackout viewfinder- capability see perfectly in low-light or bright-light- direct information about exposure and composition (in ultra-low light etc)- capability playback images in bright conditions- Capability to use camera as spotting tool (you can magnify even the live view multiple times to see better far)- far higher sequential speeds and with A9 a better AF (using Sony lenses)

>>Can you work a whole day with an EVF?<<Why is that an issue? People spend many more hours than that everyday looking directly at computer screens. With the EVF you get breaks regularly.I find looking at the EVF is much easier to see than the OVF especially when tired.

@NicoPPCare you asking for pro sports with long tele only or all photography in general?Many advantages:1) EVF if you get used to it is far superior that OVF2) Weight difference IS RELEVANT for most situation but when on a tripod. 3) IBIS is a MUST feature if you shoot a lot in low light a fast primes.4) edge to edge AF with eye focus5) 20 fps?????6) E-shutter, silent?????7) No blackout????this is a very compelling list. Have you tried the camera at all?

- Yes. On The 5DMIII, the black out is really short.- Yes. The AF coverage of the 5DMIII is quiet good. The mirrorless got it better.- Yes and no. The silent mode of the 5D is rather silent. Of course, not totally.- Yes. already 6 fps, is quiet much for my work.

"Why is that an issue? People spend many more hours than that everyday looking directly at computer screens. With the EVF you get breaks regularly."

It sure depends of people, but I could not find any EVF which fit my eyes. and, no I do not like to spend a lot time, looking at a screen. So if I have the choice, I prefer real light.

"I find looking at the EVF is much easier to see than the OVF especially when tired."I have the opposite experience: I can not use an EVF much. After a few minutes, I can not look at it anymore.

But, the good: people can choose, and they get the same quality with 2 different handling/philosophy.

@NicoPPCOf course the 5DIV is an excellent camera, it is years of refinements! And if you you prefer such camera shooting style that is great!The thing is that every thing the 5IV is good at the A9 excels at. Also, for the bulk comparison, there is little difference in carrying a 5IV or A9 + A7RII on you or in a bag, and it is pretty insane the firing power you get between the two. By maximizing speed or IQ.

are we forgetting the agility of naturally switching from EVF to monitor and back, experience enhanced by identical shooting settings, tilt screen, and light camera easy to be single handed with arm fully stretched?

I think this is a generational thing. The younger generation has grown up looking at electronic screens. The older generation finds this to be alien. BTW, weight is not really irrelevant. Keep in mind, a lot of pros carry multiple bodies on them. At least two, sometimes three or four. All that camera body weight does add up. 1DX II is 1530g, D5 is 1405g, A9 is 673g. Multiply that by multiple bodies, over a whole day of shooting-- that's not irrelevant. Smaller bodies also take up less room in your gear bag.

Up until now, pros who wanted top specs and speed had no choice but to carry the biggest, heaviest DSLRs. And people automatically assumed that pros love carrying big, heavy cameras! That's not necessarily the case. Now they have another option. And even those who think they don't mind the extra weight might change their mind once they are given an alternative.

@T3that was exactly my case. I used to love to lug around such a massive, solid 1 series body. I have owned them all but the 1DXII and the 1DIII.I am definitely done with that. Btw I just got the battery grip for serious work. You get a camera that weights like a 5DIII but with a handgrip. Very nice!

@NicoPPC - "Also, most of the pros I know tested mirrorless (Sony, Fuji), but quickly got back to DSLR (but 1)."

I think a lot of pros were waiting for something of the A9's caliber and performance, which obviously didn't exist until just a few weeks ago. Also remember that lenses such as the FE 70-200/2.8 weren't even available until late last year. The FE 12-24/4 and FE 16-35/2.8 weren't introduced until last month. So with no A9, no 16-35/2.8, no 70-200/2.8, there really wasn't much incentive to move to Sony. Let's check back in a year or two and see.

"I am really happy to look at less screen."

I think that shows your bias against electronic screens. I use EVF, but I still have my DSLR gear. Whenever I go back to using OVF, there are so many things I miss about EVF. For example, I love using my EVF in black-and-white mode, which helps with composition (you see the world more abstractly as lines, shapes, patterns, without distraction from colors). OVF can't do that.

@NicoPPCEVFs are getting better every day, OVF are not. How up to date is your statement "most of the pros I know tested mirrorless (Sony, Fuji), but quickly got back to DSLR"?EVF vs OVF is much like Digital vs Film. The analog look is nice, but digital so much more practical. If you are shooting night events the EVF is vastly superior. I was shooting from 9 pm to 5 am last Saturday. I was glad I had an EVF

I am also shooting the whole day, and also night.. and I could not think about a EVF. Because... I just could not work with..Although, EVF are nice for people who require glasses to review the pictures, if you get a usable one.

Then, it's nice to get the choice upon your taste.

OVF do get better: 5D -> 5D3 -> 5D4. You get more info and practical functions. Also, they actually put a second sensor to detect faces and so on...

"** Correction: The first version of this article claimed the lenses used were the 300mm F2.8L II and 400mm F2.8L II. They are, in fact, Version 1 of both these lenses. The text has been corrected to reflect this."

Let's focus on the technology but not on the people.AF-C during a high speed burst is actually faster than AF during liveview. During a high speed burst the camera adjusts the focus continuously without checking the lens' status or position.If you prefer hit rate over frame rate, set "Priority in AF-C" to "AF". After a while it starts to get boring getting so many sharp images because when I lose more images to motion blur than to mis-focus I call it quits. Frame rate did not slow down much either with the "AF" emphasis setting (I wasn't measuring) unless there are abrupt jumps in subject movement. To me, the "Balanced" and "Release" emphasis settings are unsatisfactory, because I didn't enjoy sorting a whole pile of files.The A9 has amazing buffer depth. It takes a long time to empty the buffer even on an UHS-II card and I can fill it up rather quickly.

The adapter is off the hook, but two bottlenecks remains: one is how quickly the lens itself could move its glass, which impacts a Canon DSLR and the Sony A9 equally, and like @osv said Mark II is faster than Mark I.The second was the measurement range of OSPDAF. If the subject moves abruptly by a huge amount and the focal length is very long (>=400mm), autofocus just temporarily stops. This can be a good thing or a bad thing. If the subject temporarily moves out of the AF area this prevents unnecessary focus movements, but if the subject movement is real and you refocus it slows things down. In this regard, I don't have a recent Canon to compare to. I know the press will be doing exactly that, so we will find out soon.

@osvWell i am discussing the article with other commentators. What is the bad news about this? It's seems everybody has something to say and i see other people like T3 very much around here, too. Do you want to prohibit people which articles they aren't allow to discuss?

Osv's point about A-Sign guy is clear. Right on. Some people are just super frustrated with Sony's success of pushing the technology far and making other companies challenged. There is nothing wrong with the picture. It's wonderful that camera companies take us in to future. It's just some insecure guys get furious about it and can't stop putting sh*t on the good stuff up to a level that only make fool of themselves.

@MikeSternDoesn't it feel ugly for you to put words and assumptions into somebody else's mouth which is basically wishful thinking from your extensive Sony addiction? How much does Sony pay for you to discredit other people on purpose?

Lets face it and make the summary:

So now we have a Sony A9 that wants to be a pro camera but turned out to be a expensive toy with $ 4.449 price tag that is only interesting for consumers due to missing pro lenses? :)

@A-Signcontinuing on, ofter sports photographers have at lest two cameras on the field, with a long tele and a shorter one for close action. Most of the time the photographer is shooting action further away with the long tele, mounted on a gimbal. As the action gets closer he grabs the other camera on the fly for the quick close by action. So I ask you, what is currently the best light camera with top class AF and fps?oops....sorry if such comment is coming from an ACTUAL sport photog.

There is still the SLT line called A-Mount at Sony. So Sony still believes in mirrors, although it is a translucent mirror. Mirrorless can't be the future for Sony as long as there is the SLT line and A-Mount available.

Oh my god, Sony itself is producing cameras with mirrors which are bigger than the Alpha series?! I can't believe that after all this mirrorless praise here against Canon and Nikon.

Not really very surprising. What is surprising though is that DPreview does not seem to realise yet that most people buy into a system and don't swap just because of one body or lens. Until Sony develop a system of comparable size to Canon or Nikon they will continue to struggle to be be taken seriously. I am with Canon and am unlikely to change because if my investment in bodies and lenses from them. Sure the Sony cameras are appealing but it would be financially ruinous to change systems. For this reason and that I like the ergonomics of Canon I will stick with them for as long as I can carry a dSLR and long lens around.

Paul I'd argue they do realize that, which is why they put up articles like this... nobody's going to swap to sony if it also meant buying all sony glass and wrecking their bank account. But a few people were probably hoping they could essentially upgrade their canon body to a sony body, without needing to buy anything else (except an adapter).

The article lets people know that's not gonna happen... they're going to need to buy into the whole system, glass included.

Before Sony came along, people switched from Nikon to Canon, and vice versa. And the benefits of going from Nikon to Canon, or vice versa, weren't that big. The differences in features and performance were very small. Yet, plenty of people have switched.

And it's not just about switchers. A new generation of users are entering the market every day who have no financial or emotional attachment to DSLRs, or optical viewfinders. They've grown up in the digital age, looking at digital screens. Sony's system is a system for the new generation. The older generation will probably just stick to the DSLRs they are accustomed to.

It's absolutely true that people have switched between Canon and Nikon for far less benefit and difference. And yes, the younger generation has no emotional or financial attachment to DSLRs or optical viewfinders like the older generation does, because that's not what they've grown up with.

Keep in mind that Canon EOS was introduced in 1987 with zero marketshare because it was a completely new system (no backwards compatibility with Canon's prior FD system), going up against Nikon who owned the pro market, had a huge established system, and had a huge base of very loyal users. So how is it that Canon gained so much marketshare to surpass Nikon? Well, it was a combination of switching users and getting the next generation of users who had no financial/emotional attachment to Nikon. So my "assumptions" have happened in the past. People are fools to ignore history. And back then, Nikonians like you bashed Canon just as much as you are bashing Sony today. It's deja vu! LOL.

@CreeDo - "The article lets people know that's not gonna happen...they're going to need to buy into the whole system, glass included."

The only thing the article is telling is that with this current version of smart adapters, with these specific versions of Canon lenses, you're limited to 5fps AF tracking. Even with 5fps AF tracking, that's still good enough for plenty of users who aren't shooting sports! Not everyone needs faster than 5fps bursts. Furthermore, firmware is constantly being updated on these smart adapters. It's likely that we'll get even better performance with future firmware and adapters. But like I said, adaptability that provides AF, IS, IBIS, and up to 5fps AF tracking is still darn good enough for a lot of users. If they have specific lenses that they currently own and enjoy using, and they don't feel like replacing them, they can just keep them. I don't see anything in the article that would cause someone to say, "OMG I'm going to have to replace EVERYTHING!"

T3.. no doubt that eventually mirrorless might be "better" than DSLR.. but right now, looking at what Pro's are shooting with, in most fields of professional photography, seemingly it is not there yet.As far as the Eos system in '87.. it was a huge change/progress, and was introduced as a whole/complete system. Very little has changed in the ergonomics in 30 years.. because it's that good. You can not say the same for Sony.Certainly they are making progress with the A9, and I expect the A7rII to follow suit.

@cbphoto123 - The word "pros" covers a LOT of ground. It's not just stadium sports photographers who are shooting big telephotos.

As for "looking at what pros are shooting with right now", let's not forget that the Sony FF mirrorless system has only been in existence 3 years 8 months, and Sony just released their FE 12-24/4, 16-35/2.8, 24-70/2.9 and 70-200/2.8 lenses in the last year or so! The 12-24/4 and 16-35/2.8 were just introduced last month! These are all lenses that pros would want in a system before switching. And Sony just introduced them recently. Plus, Sony just introduced the A9 last month. Sony's pro body and lens offerings are literally just entering the market!

It took a while for people to steadily switch to Canon EOS too. It didn't suddenly happen a month after Canon introduced their first pro Canon EOS body. No, these things do take time. So it's absurd to be looking at what pros are using right now, and expect to see massive change at such an early stage.

Yes, thats why I wrote ".. Pro's are shooting with, in most fields of professional photography..".Yes Sony has many new lenses, but in my opinion still has some major things to work out with their camera bodies (ergonomics in particular) and most importantly pro services. (still what I consider non existent) The A7rII is for me a perfect example of what I consider an amazing sensor..and that's it. Yes it has a couple of things that work, but for the most part is complete rubbish. The A9 is no doubt a large step in the right direction, but still coming up short for professional use.

@cbphoto123 - Like I said, "pro" covers a lot of ground. And ergonomics are a matter of taste. Some in the older DSLR generation only want bigger, heavier, thicker bodies. I think the younger generation is a little more open-minded and not so rigid in their mindset. And it's this younger generation that will be tomorrow's buyers.

I used to be a Canon DSLR die-hard. But even I have come to appreciate the smaller size of mirrorless bodies.

Never heard of any "older DSLR generation only want bigger, heavier, thicker bodies.".. Not once, ever. As far as "rigid in their mindset".. think you way off the mark also. Just deflecting from the fact that Sony is in it's current form, not up to par with Canon & Nikon pro equipment/system.. Pro's aren't switching predominantly for this reason.I would like to add that I really have no issues with mirrorless, and have considered Fujifilm for many of positives. Positives that Sony comes up short in again and again.

@cbphoto123 - Clearly, you're ignoring what is being brought to the table. 693 AF points with 93% frame coverage, face/eye AF, IBIS, 20fps, no blackout, no rolling shutter, silent shooting, superb sensor, real-time exposure preview, lens adaptability, no micro-adjust back/front focus calibration needed, much lower price tag, etc. All of these things are *above par* compared to Canon and Nikon. If *any* of this stuff showed up in Canon and Nikon bodies, there would be great fanfare. But if it shows up in Sony's camera, it's "not up to par" or "comes up short", LOL. (In the case of the A9, *all* of it is there.) That is the attitude of someone who has their head in the sand. Fortunately, not everyone is as close-minded as you.

virtualreality.. actually it is quite commonly known that Canon & Nikon gear hold their value much better than Sony.Curious T3, where do you find that Sony cameras, lenses etc come up short to the competition...have room for improvement, if any?I only ask because the little list you gave above is quite menial (of little importance) to most photographers, pro or otherwise. Before you get in a "huff".. could you actually address some of the questions I had/statements I made before.. rather than just deflecting to Sony's own spec sheet?

@cbphoto123 - Typical response: "that feature is of little importance." Keep in mind that Canon users have switched to Nikon, and vice versa, for far less. Also, the subtext of your response is really "my brand doesn't have it, so that feature/capability is quite useless." As a Canon DSLR user, I would love IBIS, focus points that go edge to edge in the viewfinder, totally silent shooting, face/eye AF, etc. And just because it happens to be in a Sony body doesn't mean that I immediately have the knee-jerk response, "that feature is menial!" No, I'm open-minded and happy to go where the features are. And it's even better that I can still use my Canon lenses.

What other questions? Pro services? Sony launched pro services. Ergonomics? That's a matter of taste. And Sony offers two add-on grips for the A9. What else? I think people are just trying to cling to any straw of denial. Given the pace at which Sony is moving, if they aren't "up to par" on something, just wait a few months! LOL.

Haha, says a Sony promoter and supporter :) This is having so much credibility like a paperweight or doorstopper. Why should somebody do this for Sony junk? There is no benefit doing this if you have a ecosystem that offers already everything. Most DSLR shooters don't have switched to Mirrorless and won't - not everybody wants to have a crappy electronic viewfinder. Even Sony is building the bigger and heavier SLT A-mount series cameras using a mirror.

1. If one goes to just about any sporting event.. currently one will find no pro services from Sony. (and a Sony shooter on the sidelines)2. If you send your malfunctioning Sony to be repaired it will take up-words of a week or longer to come back (with currently no loaner option in the meantime)3. The ergonomics does not allow for gloves due to very small mushy buttons/knobs. (bad ergonomics)4. The weather sealing is not up to par with D5 and DXII (yes you can argue there have been no tests to this, but much like one can look at a Canon Rebel vs a Canon DX II.. it is easy to come to the conclusion which one is better sealed/built)5. Currently do NOT have long focal lengths (essential for sports photographers)

For most Pro's.. any one of these things would be a deal breaker. More so all of them. I do look forward to the A9II or A9III to check all the right boxes, but right now.. Sony just is NOT there yet.

Pro photographer no doubt are keeping an eye on Sony, but without the above issues addressed.. I am quite certain they could really care less about focus points in the corners, 20 fps (in certain modes with only certain lenses and of what I have read, don't even really want/need), having to one time in their life maybe micro adjust a lens or 2... This is where my "menial" comment came from.

@cbphoto123 -People like you can't fathom that the A9 could possibly be used for anything other than sports photography, in the rain, with super telephotos, with gloves-- and so therefore you've decided that the A9 is a totally inadequate camera, haha. Look beyond your rigid, narrow perspective. The A9 will find its way to diverse users, from wedding photographers to sports photographers, and everything in between.

Somehow, you've decided that since the A9 is "marketed" as a "pro sports camera", that's all anyone can ever use it for. Not so. It's a camera that can handle a diverse set of situations. 20fps is only *one* aspect of this camera. Sports photography is only *one* use for this camera. You're getting way too hung up on how the camera is "marketed." The reality is that marketing is just one way to present a camera. A while back, Canon ran this ad to market the Rebel XSi:

Notice how you once again did not address what I wrote. I was even so nice as to # them. Much as always in your "apologist" fashion... you deflect to a Canon advert and defend the flagship Sony "Sports" camera as a tool for many other different types of photography. "People like you can't fathom that the A9 could possibly be used for anything other than sports photography," ..who talks like this? You don't know me. I certainly can imagine the camera having uses outside of pro sports.U really need to check yourself. You are so obsessed with Sony, that you are blind to the reality that they just are not there yet as a complete system, with a large enough customer base (professional or enthusiast) that has faith/trust in the viability of their products, Sony's devotion to such products both now and in the future...

I have asked a couple times before (with no answer).. I will try again. With no links to a website, 2 photos of a waitress or hostess in a restaurant/hotel, could you please share what your professional photographic experience is?

@cbphoto123 - I was a wedding photog for 7 years, which I moved on from 10 years ago, but it was only a supplemental career and something I did for fun. I use quite a variety of brands, all just for enjoyment these days.

I was around when Canon EOS was still in its infancy. People used to say the same FUD about Canon. In fact, it used to be worse because Canon EOS had zero customer base, and people like you would say, "how can you have faith/trust in the viability of their products, Canon's devotion to such products both now and in the future when they just abandoned their FD system!?" I bring up Canon because I see so many parallels between Canon and Sony, and so many parallels with people's negative response, vitriol, criticism and distrust of both companies. Unlike some people, I'm taking a broad historical perspective. I'm not blind. I think Sony is in a much better position than EOS was, and Sony is following Canon's path. You'll see.

@cbphoto123 - We're also at the cusp of an inflection point in the camera world. On the one side, you have the giants of photography at the forefront of old DSLR technology. On the other side, you have Sony at the forefront of new mirrorless technology. Old vs new, mechanical vs solid state. My bet is on the latter. Sony is building the foundation to be a top player in this new world. People are so shortsighted. They can't see that Sony is building to be a top player in this new world. It started 10+ years ago when they bought Minolta to gain camera/lens expertise. No, it started even before then when they started making sensors for everyone, gaining that expertise. Today they own 50% of the image sensor market, and other brands are dependent on them for sensors. Then they moved themselves into an entirely new segment-- mirrorless-- where they are the technological leaders. All of this is just foundation. It's game plan. They are playing the long game. I'm not blind. They are EOS 2.0.

I became Pro right when the Eos system came out... most likely due to many more years experience in the photo industry (then Sony), their execution/roll-out of the new EOS system was far more organised and complete compared to what Sony has been trying to pull off. Was a very easy switch for both Canon users and those from Nikon that jumped over at the time. Since then I have nearly 30 more year experience.. and Sony's roll out, pro services, lenses, customer care, firmware updates, commitment to a mount etc etc... are nothing like the risks Canon took and executed to near perfection at the time.As far as Canon goes, they have much more knowledge than Sony does about how to build an actual camera, lenses... Yes, Sony sensors are still ahead of Canons, but minutely at this point.. and I expect Canon to "catch up, equal or surpass" within a year or 2. They have more experience, loyal customers and decades of earned respect for building cameras that are reliable. Sony does not.

M5 doesn't do that bad moving those huge lens elements with such a small battery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERkz7Ni65NA&feature=youtu.be The focusing is delayed because it's in tracking mode which prefers subjects coming back into frame over refocusing. And it keeps the rose in focus even after losing it for a long while. So Canon really knows what they are doing, they just need to create a pro mirrorless.

"M5 doesn't do that bad moving those huge lens elements with such a small battery"

Moving huge elements has nothing to do with the battery size. A bigger battery won't move the lens elements any faster. Battery size in a camera only effects how long you can keep the camera on, not how fast the camera can focus the lens. It's all or nothing. For example, even with cameras with big batteries, if AF performance was dependent on battery size, then we would expect AF performance to get slower as the battery drained down. Obviously, that's not the case. It's all or nothing; the camera keeps working normally until the battery dies, then you get nothing.

Li-Ion batteries don't "slow down". They maintain a nearly constant voltage until the end, then turn off like a light switch. Charge indicators for Li-Ion batteries are smart devices which track time and current, predicting the charge level rather than tracking voltage.

In fact the missing Sony lenses for E-Mount are the reason why there is any demand for a Canon long telephoto lens on this A9 sports camera for over 4000 $ price tag. At least for consumers - i didn't heard that from any Pro wanting that solution.

It is nice to be able to use Canon legacy lenses on Sony bodies. It works fine for many scenarios. There are good reasons that Sony users enjoy playing with these legacy lenses. Amazing Leicas, Sigmas, Voigtlnders out there. Sony FE system is less than 4 years old. Compare that to all other full frame manufacturers. Yet within the last 3 years Sony and SonyZeiss produced more lenses than any - any - other brand while being the major sensor manufacturer in the market with more than 45% share for their own system, Nikons, Pentax, IPhone and others. That clearly means Sony will complete their lens system.

@cyberstudioMaybe Sony doesn't care about image quality. For Sony the high tech specs numbers seem to be important such as 20 fps or 800 focus points. That's what triggers the marketing department for them. And of course to replace the camera in the next 6 months, so you don't have to buy it and can wait for the next iteration. The question is: Will it overheat (again)?

@Rocky Mtn Old BoyThat is very old news. Sony was only overtaking sales between January and February 2017 and this basically only in the USA - one country. That's all and gone now. Sony is still no number two player in the market. We all would have already noticed that if this would be the case.

If some of you express negative views of Sony, I fully respect you are entitled to your opinion, but to bring up Samsung as an analogy, you'd better check your facts first. They actually demo'ed a (native of course) 300/2.8 at Photokina 2014. There are no significant shortcomings in any area (IQ or otherwise), even by todays' standard. There were plenty of innovation and industry's firsts. The lens lineup was pretty comprehensive, including the 16-50/2.0-2.8. They flunked in the marketplace due to brand recognition, distribution channel, marketing and other non-technical factors, all of which Sony has no problems with.

True A-sign... 810 only surpassed by the A7Rii. I think the only non-Sony sensor in the top 10 is the incredible K1.

As for Mr Leung's comparing Samsung to Sony... firstly the argument is silly. Secondly, the Samsung was a great system if one didn't need full-frame pro quality. And lastly, I am pretty sure Nikon have some smarter guys than *you* when they considered investing their pro camera line's future in Sony sensors. Just sayin'...

@ThematicIt was about image quality and that was the reason why you have pointed to DXO mark. So the Nikon D810 clearly leads above the Sony A9 in image quality. Obviously you got caught in a trap now. I am sorry for you :)

@A-Sign I said "some of you", not "you", even though my post sat right below yours, and to be more specific, I was referring to the thread starter. Hope this clears things up. I have no intention to comment on or respond to any of your posts, with the sole exception of this one.

@cbphoto123Exactly my opinion as well. And even then the camera isn't done right for real photographers. I prefer Canon or Nikon bodies if you have bigger full frame lenses on it. If you want small go FUJI.

@E LEung: Sony is not Samsung. Sily comparison.@Cyberstudio: a lot has changed since 2014. You should read a little There is something like a GH5 for instance. A9 is not a videocam. Just ike NX-system is not an action/sportssystem.

Hilarious. The lengths Canikon users will go to to protect their dying system.Sony cameras are fantastic, sell extremely well and represent the future.This is the kind of desperate comment that only appears here ...

@A-Sign... I have the distinct feeling you've never even held an A9. At 24 ounces, it's almost twice the weight of the D600 you say is your current shooter and pretty much identical in size.Nobody is switching to mirrorless cameras? Lol... I bet you drive/drove a muscle car.

@Rocky Mtn Old BoyYou make false assumptions that i have a problem with the weight of the D600. That is not the case. It balances well with the AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II. That is a heavy lens because it is full frame, 200mm focal length and wide aperture.

The ergonomics of the D600 are way better than any tiny Sony A7 or A9 compact camera where you get stuck with the fingers between camera grip and lens mount because it is so small and no space left to hold it well for hours. Sony camera + such a lens becomes front heavy which is not very practical and can cause that you drop the camera more easily and you need to balance against the weight of the lens.

Obviously you don't have a clue about all this what good ergonomics and usability of a camera really means. Full frame is another thing than APS-C which you can design smaller lenses for.

Some people were diverted from the topic. Remember, image sensor is just a component of a digital camera, nothing special.If we follow that nonsense logic, then ASML and Nikon are the real "King" behind the scene since ASML and Nikon are the top manufacturers of semiconductor lithography systems for Sony manufacturing image sensor.Comment with logical sense. Please!

@A-Sign Two different bodies. The A9 is considerably larger than the 7-series... which - to be fair - I added a grip to as my hands are large (and the batteries are sh!t). The A9 I would probably add a grip to, but it would be more out of preference than need really. Big cameras don't bother me as I used to shoot Nikon F4s back in the day - usually with a big Metz potato masher hanging off of it. I have some pretty large lenses that I use with the A7 but I shoot old school - left hand, palm up, supporting the weight of the lens - so never an issue.

Sony is an electronics company they have always chased specs in all of their electronics departments, doesn't always mean they are bad or good at what they produce. Just that they like having the best specs, technology moves forward, the a9 might not be ready for prime time but neither was the a7 but in their second attempt there was a large improvement. Hopefully Sony stays in the camera body business long enough and doesn't decide to stick with the image sensor side only. Sony is well know to pull in and out of businesses all the time, from pulling in and out of professional and hifi stereo equipment to pulling in and out of computers to pulling in and out of housekeeping products and kitchen appliances. They dabble in a lot and sometimes like tv's they stay and other times they quit or sell off or only hit the low end market, that's my fear with investing in Sony, they can be all in one day and out the next even if it seems they're doing well, they are not a photography company so who knows how dedicated they really are, it's too soon to tell.

@Enrico_X A9 does full sensor 6k oversampling only at 24p. At 30p A9 is cropped. It does 5k oversample at 30p, just like the A7RII, A6300 and A6500 before it.You may have confused NX500 with the NX1. The latter does 6k oversampling at 30p, with a higher resolution sensor at 28MP.

@pkcpgaThank-you for this. Likely one of the better comments made on the subject, and without any underlaying 'fanboy' - pro or con - attitudes. I personally have been hedging my bets, buying all my lenses in Canon mount. I prefer to focus manually, so the adapter thing was never really an issue. The A9 offers a bunch of options that I'll never use - so I am sort of waiting for whatever the next A7Rii looks like. It's been many years since I earned my living from photography, so I can now pick and choose without worrying about workflow or cost.If I had one wish for the future of Sony photography, it would be that they bought Carl Zeiss AG. That would mark their committment and quality for the brand.

A-Sign corrects people here and says "Nikon D810 scores higher than A9 on DXO with the score of 97" The other day, he was saying "you can't rely on DXO numbers" when he was shown the Sony lens scores. Today he forgets that.

He forgets one more thing. Sony A7rII scores higher than D810 on DXO. Just saying, so he eats his own poo now.

My point was Sony has always been tech driven and spec driven they just pull into and out of markets on whim, which is something that will take many professional photographers time to decide if it's worth the risk or if Sony is really staying in this for the long haul. Myself I'll try Sony but won't fully invest until Sony has proven to be vested in the photography business for a while and have a full working system. Definitely skipping the a9 since it doesn't serve a purpose for myself, Sony has no native sports lenses yet and some kinks to work out but maybe next year when version 2 is out those lenses and kinks may be resolved or maybe Sony will pull away from the sports photography business, who knows, only time will tell. Nikon and canon have been and continue to produce camera equipment for decades, so at least my needs are covered for now, but who knows what the future will bring.

Remember SLR's have been around for decades, mirrorless sonys are new, like all those Sony music forms were but were quickly replaced, will mirrorless be the same for Sony, just a new hot selling toy until sales drop and they figure out a new toy to replace it. Sony likes new tech but also likes changing formats to force new sales in everything, just because they also sold old formats at the same time doesn't mean Sony wants to keep the format alive, just means Sony still has old parts to sell and can milk both sides of the cow. Sony is a smart electronics company, not a photography only company is my point.

@pkcpga - You seem to be forgetting that ILCs are entire ecosystems of interconnected hardware. It's not a line of stand-alone hifi receiver. PCs are also stand-alone products. It's not an intangible thing like a music format. We're talking about a hardware ecosystem built from scratch.

Sony has invested heavily in mirrorless. In the short 3 years 8 months the Sony FF mirrorless system has been in existence, they've produced seven FF bodies (A7, A7R, A7S, A7II, A7RII, A7SII, A9)-- more than any other brand. They also have 22 FE lenses to their name. Huge investment. Nope, this is not a fad for them. They clearly want to be a dominant force in the ILC market. And it certainly helps that they control 50% of the image sensor market.

And you're naive if you think that mirrorless is just a passing fad. Mirrorless cameras have now account for 38% of all ILC shipments. Next year, it'll break into the 40s. Eventually, they'll be the majority. SLRs are in decline. They are old technology.

In this virtual era, A-Sign seems very successful to attract the eyeballs of other audience. Perhaps he/she is also creative in other area. Regardless the approach is good or bad, it makes dpreview more attractive to the new generations. New generations are essential to keep those giant companies (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic....) to surive.

Only two ways for Sony going to pro market:1. Collaborate with Canon / Nikon to share their lens making technologies; or2. Hire the people from Canon / Nikon; but too difficult for Sony to work iit out in Japan.Without the above actions, Sony will still remain in the second tier market segment.

I don't know you need certain specific lens to become pro...properly I'm not a Pro or Pro enough XD since I never own anything above 300mm in my whole career...

Just to let you know, 1) Sony do have those lenses, they are in A mount from both Minolta age and in Sony brand...Technically its the company support that make the system more acceptable by professional then the actually body or lenses...All camera/lens maker they make almost equally good equipment in that very same level. It just come down to personal preference. 2) If I remember correctly the current head of lens design in Sony is from Nikon...

There are not really Pro camera, but Pro photographer which make their tools work for them. Good luck to you.

I agree with zxaar and Thematic. Sony don't need anything from Canon/Nikon. Over 10 years ago they bought Minolta for their lens making technologies. They've collaborated with Carl Zeiss to make lenses. They released the 500/4 G and 300/2.8 G for their A-mount system.http://www.steves-digicams.com/SAL300F28G2_angle.jpg

To date they have 22 FE lenses to their name. zxaar and Thematic are right. Sony just need to put out some E-mount telephoto, and they don't need Canon or Nikon to do so. A 400mm is supposed to be released later this year.

Lens design is not some voodoo magic that only Canon/Nikon are capable of. Even third parties like Sigma are giving Canon/Nikon a serious run for their money. (I can't was to see the FE lenses Sigma will make.) No need for anything from Canon and Nikon.

Their mid-range bodies such as the A6500 (#12 on Amazon) and A6300 (#19) sell as well or better than comparable DSLRs such as the Canon 80D (#20), 70D (#22), or 7D MKII (#88). Samsung never enjoyed this kind of sales success.

If you look just at mirrorless sales rankings at Amazon, Sony holds 4 of the top 5 sales positions.

Again, Samsung never had this level of sales success. Samsung also never had FF. Sony is doing well with their FF MILCs. In the mere 3 years 8 months that Sony FF mirrorless has been in existence, Sony has released seven FF bodies (A7, A7R, A7S, A7II, A7RII, A7SII, A9) and they've sold well. So Sony is definitely in a very different position than Samsung. Sony is moving very quickly, evolving very quickly, and they have the sales to support it.

@zxaarYeah, this Kodak FUD comes always handy when it's about Canon or Nikon for the Mirrorless Roarers :)

Guess, why it is unlikely? You don't see any photographers moving in masses from DSLR to Mirrorless because some fanboys told so. And since how long are mirrorless systems available? Ah, what does that tell us?

Kodak was classic bureaucracy and mismanagement (the CEO was from HP and wanted to get them into printers because that's what he knew). Sony is a bureaucratic nightmare with lots of divisions. Currently the imaging division is doing very well (the sensor manufacturer) and the camera division is riding on that success but nothing says Sony won't leave the camera market (they've left many markets many times before). Samsung is currently the number 2 sensor manufacturer and they still shut down their camera division (politics again as the old head of Samsung had wanted to be in cameras but the new head did not). In fact Samsung was beating Sony handily in every market it was in until cameras so you can't say Sony is not like Samsung because there are many articles comparing the two precisely because they are so similar. That said I don't think Sony is going anywhere anytime soon but its certainly more of a risk than Nikon or Canon.

@zxaarActually it's in reverse: While Canon is having a huge market share and tremendous business to run you need to say bye bye to the tiny market share of Sony Alpha when the mirrorless hype is over :)

All those things doesn't matter to me. I am sure that Canon and Nikon will find the right solution, they are big players like IBM and Microsoft in the computer world. In 20 years i could be dead or the earth explodes. Who cares what will happen in the next 50 years? I buy the equipment now because i want to use it now.

I'm not sure how valuable Amazon sales rankings really are as a measure of total sales. Canon now has risen to almost 50% of the global ILC market, Nikon has ~25% and is trending downwards, while Sony has ~15%.

"All those things doesn't matter to me. I am sure that Canon and Nikon will find the right solution"

Nobody cares as to what matters to you. As far as canon and nikon finding right solution goes , that is in future and for this discussion this is off for you because sony can release lenses in E mount too and that you are not willing to entertain. So you don't get what you do not allow to others. As of now dslr sales are dropping.

A-Sign - "I am sure that Canon and Nikon will find the right solution, they are big players like IBM and Microsoft in the computer world."

IBM was king of PC's. So much so that PC's were called "IBM PC's." They faltered and sold it all off to a Chinese company, Lenovo. As for Microsoft, they took a lot of mis-steps with mobile. Now they've lost the mobile market to Google's Android and Apple's iOS. Windows 10 Mobile is struggling (nearly dead). In 2015 it had 1.2% market share; in 2016 that dropped to 0.3%.

It just goes to show that "big players" can end up losing their dominance. Look at Kodak, Nokia, and Blackberry. They were all dominant in their markets. Where are they now? My point is that it's arrogant and naive to assume that dominance lasts forever, especially as markets and technology change. At one time, Apple was a joke to people like you. Today, Apple is worth more than Microsoft.

No one cares what you think or what your opinion is. The discussion is for others to read and see who stands where. If you talk nonesense people will point it out to you. If you troll you will be banned too. This too you will find out soon.

@T3 "If you want a happy ending, that depends, of course, on where you stop your story." - Orson Welles. Using your own Apple example we could go back to the early 80s where Apple was huge and Microsoft small and Apple thought their main competitor was IBM. 10 years later it was all reversed. 20 years after that its changed again. Or we could talk about TVs and go back 15 years where Sony was king and Samsung a wannabee and compare to now where Samsung is the market leader. Point is things change but also they're all still here so don't count any of them off just yet especially a company that has been number 1 for 30 years now (and there must be some reason for that.)

Only two ways for Sony going to pro market:1. Collaborate with Canon / Nikon to share their lens making technologies; or2. Hire the people from Canon / Nikon; but too difficult for Sony to work iit out in Japan.Without the above actions, Sony will still remain in the second tier market segment.

@beavertownNikon is doing fine. They have recently released three new lenses and a new body. Alive and kicking instead of dead. You are distributing fake news, BS and FUD and you pretty much don't know what you are talking about. The market share of Nikon is much bigger than Sony - Nikon sells more camera equipment per quarter than Sony, Fuji, Olympus, Pentax and Panasonic together.

Also look at Sigma and Tamron. They have recently released various new lenses for cameras with Canon and Nikon mount. Obviously this is a profitable market for all in those ecosystems and those are DSLR systems! New lenses for Sony? Not seeing it!

Rubberdials.. I take dxomark with a grain of salt. That being said.. Sony actually has 2 lenses in the top 20... and most of the lenses in the top 20 are by Zeiss... manufactured for Nikon, Canon and Sony. Interestingly the sharpest lense available in any brand (canon 300mm f2.8L II , 45 sharpness) comes in at 177th.. so whatever. Always enjoyable how you love to "spin" reality to fit your talking points. Otherwise known as "Sony Alternative Facts"

@cbphoto123No, Sony doesn't have 2 lenses in the top 20, stop spreading lies.

1. 85/1.82. 85/1.4GM3. 55/1.8ZA4. 90/2.85. 50/1.4ZA

If you add the 'manufactured for Sony' it becomes 8, because you include the Batis 25 and 85 and the Loxia 50/2 which are only available in e-mount. I wasn't adding these.

The other lenses apart from the Nikon 85 are non-brand specific and are available in several mounts. It's not correct to say the Milvus or Otus is manufactured for Nikon, because it is also available for Canon and is a 'dumb' manual focus lens capable of being tooled for any mount. Zeiss may well offer it in another mount at some stage. The Batis and Loxia lenses are only available in e-mount.

The Canon lens you mention is ranked at 177th because although sharp it has very poor transmission for a high-end lens. It's supposed to be f2.8 but they measured it at nearly half a stop slower. Sharpness isn't the only valuable metric in lens testing and in fact I never mentioned it.

U do love to pick and choose your "facts" to fit your arguments... A lens for Canon or Nikon isn't really a "lens" if Zeiss makes it for more than one camera brand.. especially if it's manual focus, but since Zeiss also makes lenses specific only for Sony (U do know that Sony is the only mirrorless mount in the whole Dx0mark lineup right?).. those of course can be called Sony lenses.

A9 is the seventh full-frame mirrorless Sony camera since the announcement of the Sony A7 in October 2013. Sony's progress since then has been spectacular. Compared with the achievements of Sony, the innovations brought by Canon in this period are almost insignificant.

Why would Sony have a hard time launching fast super-telephoto lenses to complete their line of professional lenses for the A7 / A9 cameras? Designing high performance 300, 400, 600 mm lenses is a capability that more than a dozen lens manufacturers have held for decades. The difficulty today is to design a camera with the characteristics of the A9. Designing a 300 or 400 mm F2.8 lens that can focus quickly, any Sigma or Tamron can do. So, do not be surprised if Sony launches one of these lenses long before many people imagine it.

I am with you, problem is that until then (Sony 400 2.8) you can't call this A9 a "pro sport" camera. And if you do then either you are paid or you are spreading illusions to the other amateurs. Made myself clear?

Sony is still far away from being professional. The Sony A7 and A9 have compact camera size. Photographers get stuck with their fingers between camera grip and lens mount using a huge 70-200mm f/2.8 lens on this tiny body. Not something i would call "well engineered for professionals" which you would use for hours this way. Even Nikon can handle this better on their Nikon D610 full frame camera and that camera is designed for enthusiasts.

Someone is living in a fantasy world...high quality glass production is fsr more difficult than making circuit boards. Canon is still the only producer of Flourite for lenses and it shows. Technicians take years to train if not over a decade.You cant sip,y buy that experience so Sony is years behind in long lens tech..

@zxaarDo you have a master degree in lens design and production by the way? Do you have ever visited a factory for lens manufacturing? Do you have ever viewed a tech introduction for lens technology? Do you have ever visited a tech museum featuring the history of photography as well? I guess no?

lol Sony is behind and incapable of making 500mm lenses? They already make a 500 and 300mm for A mount, and have for years. The optics are already there, and your so-called "easy" circuit boards as well as a new focusing motor are already all that it takes for an E mount version to happen.

"I mentioned that it is not E-mount of A9 but it is a SONY lens. You were telling around that there are no sony lenses."

Really? Yeah i am telling this because this news article is about the A9. And i am correct saying that there are no Sony lenses in this range for E-Mount, thus we see those Canon lenses on the A9. Not hard to understand, isn't it?

The Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II is amongst them but not the version 1 used in this video. I'd like to see the more recent versions tested to be honest before drawing any conclusions.

Sony introduced v2 iterations of a number of it's pro A-mount lenses to improve performance with the LA-EA3, I would imagine both the EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II and the 400 II would work better with the A9 than the first versions - which are nearly twenty years old, after all.

@RubberDials Thanks but you are linking to a compatibility list for v41 that was from more than 2 years ago and we are now 15 versions later at v56.But we are seeing the exact same parallel now as it was then: a ground-breaking camera came out (A7RII back then, A9 now). Metabones scrambled to work on firmware support. The press tested whatever current firmware was available (v41 was released long before A7RII) without talking to the adapter manufacturer about their findings or find out from the manufacturer if firmware support for the new camera was in the works. Controversies and turmoil ensued until new adapter firmware was available. A pattern has emerged (that every new camera, or at least the ground-breaking ones, requires new adapter firmware). The drama with GH5 which many users pair with Canon lenses and the Speed Booster was the latest example before the Sony A9. LA-EA3 itself required a firmware update to support A9. How could it be possible for Metabones to not need one?

@cyberstudioDo you think the regular customer that simply wants to take photos cares about all this techno drama? They won't even notice that there is a firmware to update. It is hardly a manageable situation for anybody even for photography review people. Big mess this whole stuff and it looks like playing LEGO.

guys there is something going on on social media: bloggers and "reviewers" all posting new hints. The smart ones keeping 1 door open but it really seems like they all are reacting to missed payments. Now what about the typing ones? did you guys get paid or you too are waiting? next time accept cash in advance, listen to me : I am in advertising and about to retire but I can imagine how these things work (or don't). never with the top, always with shady middlemen who disappear overnight , right? In the real world of advertising all the payments are made well before the setup. But in real advertising there are rules and regulations preventing from telling BS to the consumers. With social media it's like the far west all over again. And missing payments. So in a way I'm glad that the social media impersonators don't get paid, go home with reputation ruined and no money out of the journey.

hear me out now : a "pro sport camera" with no big lenses? it doesn't take a rocket scientist for figure THAT out, no? whoever started it now should run to the bathroom mirror and take a look at the reflections.

You can spot them immediately because their post titles read like they were written by a journalist. They try to sling as much mud in the title so that people scanning the page get the message without reading the thread. Stuff like - 'Am I yet another victim of Sony's legendary blah blah.' Or 'Curse of Sony, is my fifth copy also decentered?'

A great one from a while back was: 'What are the known bad Sony lenses?' Lol! Not which are the best Sony lenses - which is what a genuine user would ask.

Go to the Canon and Nikon forums (but especially the Canon :)) and complaints are more genuine sounding; 'problem with my lens.' or 'can anyone explain this.' Funny that.

RubberDials : look we can handle the trolls, it's part of the deal, but what's new here is the pro sports with no big lenses and "professionals" pretending to don't see it and publishing advertisements. The entire social media establishment got caught with the pants down with this. I know that you agree.

@Dr BlackjackYes, you're right. The Sony fans bashing against Canon and Nikon while seeing no failures at Sony are the paid trolls. It goes like this "Blame Canon that the Canon DSLR lenses don't work great on the Sony". Kind of reality distortion field.

Every single blogger, you-tuber, and poster that has something positive to say (basically all of them) on Sony's payroll? All of them conspiring together to hide critical flaws in Sony's cameras? All of them illegally not disclosing that Sony has paid them and risking their entire livelihood in order to get a free camera, lens, or small payment?

You should seek professional help if you are actually suffering from paranoid delusions like the ones in your post.

BTW people complained about lack of lenses (many different types) when the system first came out and they have since produced more lenses in a shorter time (and of higher quality) than any other manufacturer in all of history. You would have to be mentally handicapped to think that they aren't going to continue to fill in the now tiny gaps that exist in their coverage.

A-Sign, you are lost in the sauce, and need to look at the bigger picture. Trolls, in relation to camera gear, can roughly be grouped into anybody who slings unnecessary negative poison at a specific brand and makes the comment section unpleasant. This has NOTHING to do with brand loyalty to Sony or Canon or Leica. EVEN IF you are doing what you do as a "response" to Canon hating trolls, you yourself only make the problem worse.

Besides, straw mans are about as low as it gets. AFAIK nobody said "blame Canon that their lenses don't work on Sony"

the paid social media operators are now showing signs of embarrassment with no arguments other than personal attacks to the normal members. it's the beginning of the end.I think that their mission is over: the apple pie is out of the oven now, and it looks more like a pizza .

I applaud your efforts my friends. I would respond by calling you guys out as paid trolls instead, but I doubt anybody would actually pay for your content quality, which makes this just a sad effort instead.

If production of DSLR cameras sinks, it means that Canon will not be a viable third-party lens supplier for Sony, unlike Zeiss, another failed camera manufacturer in the past, but that manufactures lenses for Sony today.

That's a good point of view. Everything is connected together. Suppliers as well as manufacturers of products. Although the Sony sensor fab does make the main profits by selling tiny sensors in masses to Smartphone manufacturers.

The problem is: How important is the camera market anymore if the Smartphone sales are a lot higher than camera sales (DSLR & MILC combined)? It becomes more and more a niche for enthusiasts. Every brand is already fighting about remaining market share.

In which reality do you live? Canon is still No. 1 in DSLR sales and even in mirrorless. If anyone is going to be a thing of the past it's rather Sony with their gimmicky attempts to throw big C from the throne. Remember when Samsung tried the same and failed miserably, cause of overpriced cameras and just a handful of lenses. Kinda reminds me of Sony. BTW do they already have a 85mm f1.2 or do you guys still have to use the Canon one...?

Still Canon squeezes out as much money from the mirrorless market compared to Sony with not even really trying. They actually have all required technologies at hand to really kick into mirrorless if they decideto do so amd dual pixel AF for sure works well with Canon glass. Plus of course they still lead the DSLR market. And then there are threads like these. Well...

it is a fact that for now canon does not have FF mirrorless, it is same as sony does not have long end fast lenses for mirrorless. It is very likely that sony will have long lenses out before canon would make mirrorless FF.

@zxaarIt doesn't matter who will be the first one. It is about the ecosystem, customer support, pro support, distribution, reliability, quality, ergonomics and a lot of other stuff - ask customers why they use what they use and you get a more clear picture.

@zxaar: You're taking a company that didn't make the jump to autofocus and compare it to Canon's jump to mirrorless? Newsflash: Canon has 6 mirrorless models around and they're all selling like hotcakes, although they're just aps-c.Why? Because mostly amateurs and semi-pro-wannabes care about mirrorless. Most pros don't care about small package, they care about ergonomics, usability and stability. Three things that Sonys unfinished beta-products are far from offering.BTW Canon has been around since the early 30's. They witnessed the fall of Pentax, Contax, Kodak, Samsung etc. and made it through every jump in technology so far. If you think that a company that started making cameras in the 90s and mainly lives of their playstation success is gonna survive them, you truly live in lala-land.

It would be nice if Camera Manufacturers just made bloody cameras to a standard,and lett the lens makers get on with it.So many different systems and lens 'gimmicks',puts me off. Thats why I stick to manual lenses. Just make the Cameras to an agreed industrial standard as far as lens mount goes. Focus and aperture signals should be all thats needed for a lens.All the rest should be in Camera.

This would mean that all camera brands should become one big joint-venture that are sharing the same profits but what will happen to all the employees if these resources become one? They're gone. Otherwise not realizable.

The title is laughable and based on the facts, it should be rephrased something like: Canon lenses don't work very well on A9, not the other way around. Sony's E mount has already brought us the opportunity to use other lenses on their own body. It is really appreciated. You can't just take things for granted by asking Sony's body to be fully compatible with lenses by other manufactures. If you think it is disappointed, I would say probably you are asking for too much.

@osvWell i am discussing the article with other commentators. What is the bad news about this? It's seems everybody has something to say and i see other people like T3 very much around here, too. Do you want to prohibit people which articles they aren't allow to discuss?

122 comments? It tells me he is an enthusiastic and dedicated Sony photographer and we could all step back for a minute and appreciate what he's done instead of criticizing him as I'm now criticizing you.

Maybe if we could all be less judgemental, life wouldn't suck as bad as it does now and everyone wouldn't be stealing Oxycontin from their dying grandmothers just to make it through the day.

I don't think you even get my point. I don't care where the lenses are. What I care is what the fair conclusion/statement should be drawn based on the experiment. It is not Sony's fault not being fully compatible with Canon's lenses. The reviewer shouldn't just use the words "fall short". Why did he not say Canon, please make your lens fully compatible with Sony's A9. Would he say that? Certainly not and it doesn't make sense for him or for me or for everyone to say that. If you still don't get me, I shall stop here. Thanks.

To A-Sign, it looks like my point was distorted from your other comments. If I am not mistaken, nearly all your points are targeting that Sony has no new lenses, no lenses for sports, even third party lens manufacturers can make lenses, etc. If you really think you can stand behind your points, our argument will go nowhere. All I can hope is Sony just does nothing and you will win and be satisfied. Have a good night.

@vivaldibowDoes that all really matter for you? Man, that's sad. What do you say about the fact that all the DSLR photographers haven't switched in masses to Mirrorless yet? Ah, and then there is this SLT line from Sony called A-Mount... Sony still believes in a translucent mirror?

Why can't you accept that not everything is black and white, with one system that NEEDS to be superior in every way? Sony has continued to say that SLT exists because their traditional DSLR style AF system has some room to grow, AND that they want to continue to support their A mount userbase.

As soon as Sony sees that they can't make big money with their cameras and that R&D for good lenses are very expensive, they will stop making cameras, like they stopped making laptops and PCs since it didn't bring in the revenue they needed.

Haha, good luck. Meanwhile i take great photos with a DSLR and great lenses for the DSLR that are matching perfectly together using the same brand - everything is already available. Just simply use it.

Yeah, you can actually photograph everything with a DSLR even with a mirror box inside - that's a miracle. I hope that my customers can't tell the difference if this photo was taken on a mirrorless or camera with mirror box. :)

Just wait, Sony doesn't accept anything other than #1, they have the money and the plan to get there. The other camera companies knew this as they were developing their 1st generation of digital cameras that Sony would get in and get in big.

" The other camera companies knew this as they were developing their 1st generation of digital cameras that Sony would get in and get in big. "

Ah, so you spoke to the PR and Press department of Canon and Nikon that were sitting together with their engineers revealing the plans exclusively to you? Do you know what fake news is? This is something that belongs to it.

Sony doesn't accept anything but #1? Well, considering that they've been #3 for at least a decade now, I'd say that they do.Ever since they released their first DSLR, there's been a string of releases, DSLR, SLT and mirrorless, many of them hailed as "CaNikon killers", and yet Sony's market share in ILC (10-15%) hasn't really grown much since those early days. Maybe their time has finally come now, but I'll believe it when I see it.

A-Sign, the answer to your first question after my comment is YES!It’s not going as fast as Sony had planned/believed, but they are working on getting to #1. My own opinion is they will be a strong #3 taking sales from Canon & Nikon.A-Sign, now over 200 comments in 2 days of joining DPR.

A-Sign, the short answer is Yes to your question on my post. Starting in the early 1980’s & for the next 25 years, I had 100’s of lunches & dinners with people from 3 of the top 5 camera companies, Presidents, Vice Presidents, National Sales Managers, Directors of Sales & Marketing, Designers of SLR & L.S. (Compact) Cameras.A-Sign, you never had any of the above people to your home for dinner with your family? With all the traveling they do, they eat in restaurants a lot, so they like a casual dinner at my home! One time when I brought 2 Japanese camera designers home for dinner, I walked into the family room & my son was watching the movie ‘Midway’, I just said ‘change the channel now’. I was lucky that one had stopped off at the bathroom, the other wanted to use my home office to make a phone call, so they didn’t see the TV. For 2 of the companies I only had to sign a Do Not Disclose agreement once a year, the other, every time they were going to show me something. Part 1

A-Sign, so you haven’t had 3 hour dinners with the people on my list that ended with you and maybe one other going back to their office at 11:00 PM to be shown a product or two from a locked cabinet? FYI: The top people on my list have the non-working mockup with them. I have been shown dozens of planned products that were; only a drawing, plastic shell, made of beautiful woods and preproduction units that kind of worked. A few of the items I saw were never produced.A-Sign, so none of the camera companies have ever flown you to Japan or Hong Kong to see their factories, product under development? Again, Yes to your question.

You don't get it. This isn't about being unfair to *Sony* by pointing out performance issues when using a lens they don't make.

This is about the fact that SONY DOESN'T MAKE THOSE LENSES, PERIOD.

The A9 is aimed at Nikon D5 and Canon 1DX series shooters, considering its price versus an A7R2, a D810, or a 5D4.

However you can't "attack" those $6K+ sports / wildlife flagships, as many Sony fans are claiming the A9 does, without offering the bread-and-butter lenses that are arguably the more important half of the equation: The 300, 400, 500, and 600mm f/2.8 and f/4 primes which cost as much as or even more than the bodies themselves. Let alone the ultra-exotic unicorn 800mm's, and the ultra-fast 200mm f/2's.

Simply put, if you need these lenses, and you need them to be fast and reliable, then it doesn't matter how many bells and whistles the A9 has; you're "stuck" with a 1DX2 or a D5, period. End of decision-making process.

Make no mistake, any sports shooter who "only" needs a 70-200, and/or can get by with a TC or a variable aperture 100-400, is going to have a fantastic camera on their hands. The A9 is a serious threat to the D5 and 1DX2, when taken out of the context of big gun lenses.

However, while most of the comments here are indeed probably being made by folks sitting on their couches who have never held a 300mm f/2.8 in their life, let alone needed one to get a job done, ...rest assured there *ARE* still a lot of photographers out there who have $20-$30K worth of big gun glass, and are quite curious about how Sony is coming along, for whatever reason. Maybe they want to overcome the AF point spread limitations of traditional OVF phase-detect systems; I know that's my own personal reason for keeping a close eye on Sony's progress.

Whatever the case, there are folks out there who do see this as a show-stopper, not just another CaNikon fanboy anti-Sony rant.

The A7 and A9 are tiny compact cameras if you look at the camera body. Until Sony isn't making bigger versions of their bodies with better ergonomics it is of limited interest for pro sports shooter. I have seen some photographers that are having problems because their fingers get stuck between Sony camera grip and the huge 70-200mm lens. Not much space left in-between. Who wants to work this way for hours?

That grip depth / width / design issue is just a small bump in the road that Sony must overcome in catching up with Canon and Nikon's decades of expertise in the realm of ergonomics, in my opinion. They'll get it right soon.

By comparison, the complete absence of $50,000+ worth of flagship lenses is the far, far greater obstacle they need to overcome ASAP if they want the A9 (or, an imaginary A9mk2 with a better grip design) ...to truly "attack" the 1DX2 and D5.

This "revelation" is of academic interest. Why is it that threads like this consider only professional sports photographers as "professional." There are plenty of people who earn a living from photography who do not use nor need 600 mm monsters, and who outnumber the "real pros" by 10,000 to one. As a mostly semiprofessional photographer, the quality of Sony A7Rii for landscapes and closeups cannot be matched by Canonikon gear. Portraits and group photos exceed what I can get with medium format. Sometimes Just good enough is not good enough.

Because it's the marketing strategy that came from Sony. Every social media blog was riding on this 20 fps camera thing which is only important for action/sports. Why would you need the A9 for over 4000 $ price tag if you can have everything else on other models or brands with higher resolution and better image quality?

"the quality of Sony A7Rii for landscapes and closeups cannot be matched by Canonikon gear"

That is not true and simply a claim without evidence. Use a Nikon D810 together with a Zeiss lens and you get medium format quality at Base ISO 64. Beside that the A7 and A6000 series are prone for overheating.

You can't ask a photography website to ignore content because it's only useful to a small, elite percentage of photographers. Just like you can't fault Canon for using their "ocean of white lenses" ads to help sell Rebel SLRs. The masses are curious about what the pros shoot, even if one single big gun lens costs 10X what most folks will ever spend on the entire lifetime of their hobby. It's annoying to hear this many people whining, on EITHER side of the fence, but it's a litmus test for how well Sony is actually doing at covering the bases of "sports flagship".

The A7R 2 is a fantastic landscape camera, and a very capable portrait etc. camera, however I'd rather not trade a D810 (or a Pentax K-1) for it, on most paid jobs, let alone my landscape hobby. The difference in resolution is less important than the difference in overall image quality, and the lack of dual card slots in the A7R 2 makes it a very tough pill to swallow for anyone who shoots professional, paid work.

@Matthew, I agree. This article provides good information and DPReview is an appropriate outlet. However it is wrong to equate professional photography with professional sports. That is a tiny fraction of potential applications. There are times I find 200 mm is not enough, but 500+ mm for landscapes opens new problems, like convection patterns in the air. Autofocus must be used with caution for landscapes and architecture, so "slow" is not an impediment when manual is the rule. Things I like about the A9 include top panel controls for things I use daily. High speed, silent shutter is another (for quiet events and concerts). I'm not excited about 24 MP with an AA filter. Now 50+ MP is another matter.

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