After a long hiatus the Promode community has revived the classic Challenges duel series. Initially spawned as a platform to place the best duelers in the Promode community against one one another, the latest edition of the cup will look to provide a similar level of excellence as displayed in the very early 2000s.

Map Selection: Flip a coin (callvote random 2h/t). Winner chooses first map. Loser chooses second map. If a third map is required, the loser of the cointoss will drop a map from the reminder of the map pool first, then the winner of the coin toss will drop a map, repeat until there is one map left. The map selection process will be as follows: +pick(winner), +pick(loser), +drop(loser), +drop(winner), +pick.

Map Selection for Grand Finals: For the Grand Finals, which is BO5, players will flip a coin, starting with the winner of the cointoss the map selection process will be as follows: +pick(winner), +pick(loser), +pick(winner) +pick(loser), +drop(loser), +drop(winner), +pick.

Server Selection: Players may play on any server they choose, however, this is European tournament, and European servers will have priority. In cross-Atlantic matches, we recommend the follow: NA vs. EU-W to play oN EU-W. NA vs. EU-Central to play on EU-W. NA vs EU-E to play on EU-Central.
Match Start: Player must play their matching within ten (10) minutes of games being assigned.

Match Reporting: After the matches are complete both players are required to submit their results to an admin. Any discrepancies in reported scores will be investigated by admins.

Matches Details: Players must take an end of game screenshot, and a complete demos of all their games. Players can use cg_autoaction 7 to have a demo, and screenshot be automatically recorded by the game. Players must be able to provide demos of their games upon request.

Nick: Your nick on sign-up list should be the one you use on Discord, and in-game. No fakenicks allowed!

Behaviour: Be nice to one another. Excessively flaming other players, spectators, casters, admins or referees will lead to disqualification.

Cheating: Any, and all forms of cheating, or assistance will lead to disqualification.* Anything not explicitly covered by the above rules will be up to the volition of the admins.

It honestly doesn't matter what I think, or why I think it. This isn't really the place to talk about the pros, and cons of Reflex. If you enjoy playing it, awesome, I hope you have a good time. We only play games for entertainment, so if you find it entertaining, that's great.

Cus devs decision about tweaking movment system was like shoot in the knee(actually not first one) and imho they tweaked it wrong way atm it feels like you are trying to run while being in water. First shoot were item timers. Reflex was improved version of cpm till 0.32. Dev team turned out to be bunch of kids wandering in the fog listening to forum noobs that wanted to get game easier cus they got roflstomped too often and didnt want to put enough time into practise. Same thing happend to warsow dev team ruined it from 0.3 something. Wsw 0.3 was last good patch( for me 0.12 was last good patch).

you're talking about 0.32 patch while 0.46 is out. If you didn't play the game in the meantime you might have noticed that some of the things you just said are non existant in the game or have changed.

The gameplay is the least important thing to some extent, seriously, at this point to me every quakish game is the same fucking shit, REALLY IT IS. Doesn't matter how many arguments you can have about "balance", what's random what's not, what takes skill and what doesn't. The infrastructure of the game is more important for an online competitive game; here is where the devs completely failed or missed the point, they spend way too much time with cosmetics or artwork that most people don't dig anyway ("lego quake", no textures, hard to clip, etc...)

for me reflex needs a bunch of things in order to make it playable for everyone who is not a total fan boy:

- Ladders & seasons.
- Matchmaking.
*for each season you can make people vote a map pool of 7-9 maps for each mode so everytime you queue you don't have to play "dust2" all the time, make people play all the best maps. Tired of one map wondering in quake.
- Human model because everyone sounds the same.. or simply make an alt soundpak for enemy or friendly...
- Gamemodes ASAP.
- More weapons (this doesn't mean you need to put all of them in your map, same goes for movement, just because you can do doublejumps or rampjumps doesn't mean you need to put them all over the place)
- Reworked trainings, they feel pretty hollow and doesn't tell you what makes reflex different from other shooters, the trainings are the typical tutorial you find in any FPS.

Not really interested in reflex too, but what you said isn't entirely true, movement is cpm, it doesn't have the little things but it basically works the same, item timers are only available in casual ruleset, cups are played in competitive where there isn't timers.

it's funny because everyone's hate towards reflex could be justified but it's rather not accurate, I see that most complains are double edged swords that you can apply to other quake games, small little details of the gameplay that are far away from the new players, those only the veterans and nerds know about "OMG NO WALLCLIPING THE GAME IS UNPLAYABLE PURE CRAP"

Reflex doesn't have a clear goal atm that's the weakness of the game, it doesn't even know what kind of game it is at this point, that's worse than knowing that ur next title is going to be a quake + team fortress + moba mashup because at least you know what you're doing, reflex is filling gaps of what they have done to this point but they aren't really going forward... but that's my opinion.

I don't like the small team justification, because it's just giving yourself false hope. Reflex has been in development since 2012 (or since like 2006 if you count PMX) and Newborn recently left the development team, both meaning the game won't dramatically improve even if you give it 10 more years.

You can't really count PMX as it didn't have a clear roadmap itself. PMX was very experimental, and event he devs weren't entirely sure what they wanted yet. Besides, the PMX I played was just another Q3 mod like CPMA, they did not have their own engine yet.

mate did I ever mention anything about what does and does not exist in the reflex gameplay? I just pointed out which devs decision helped reflex to start failing(and that is only my opinion. Don't think that I am speaking for whole community ;) )

"at this point to me every quakish game is the same fucking shit"

Well so is reflex, warsow etc. etc. Unfortunatelly devs turned out to be hypocrites saying at the first "we don't want it to be cpm clone blah blah blah". Then making open ALPHA(not even beta or whatever due to lack of money probably) so people got used to game as it was while starting "open tests". Some liked some didn't but there was cry&drama with most of bigger changes(from both sides). Imho they should first tweak something such important as movment and then make it open and work on it. Cus to me reflex as it is now reminds cpma big.

True that devs put so much unnecessary(at this point) work for fancy meshes, lights and fucking ugly weapon models at the start but that was their decision. But their bigger problem was that they were too fragile or hm... way too easily influenced by community(as a dev team). From life we know that democracy isn't necessarily good thing. Because what majority wants isn't always good. Unfortunatelly for them majority of reflex ware casuals for example voting on mappols for duel cups that they never gonna play nor even sign up. I think reflex won't have most of things you listed ever because I think this project will be dropped soon(not enough income or whatever).

And lets cut that chit-chat here because we both know that any quake-ish game will fail. They are just too hard to follow to skill up, no sponsors -> no big lans -> no big names -> no community.
I think overwatch won't be as big as for example CS is(neither quake champions will) and it also should get less and less popular because from what I have seen on streams it is just pure fucking mash up, everything happens on screen, dunno whom to follow and most important what the fuck are they doing and why?

for the first pharagraphs im just gonna say that it happens to most early access games, they are born with hype and they lose players cos it's undone and buggy, they experimented shit and the only reason why it's cpm is because they had cpm source and doing something else would "delay" other shit. The movement system is good, people who don't dig it come from other quake games...

and tbh i don't want a super massive game or whatever, OW won't be as big as other titles but you can join and play at anytime with randoms, that's impossible in quake atm, anywhere you go you find the same guys in the same servers playing the same maps. It's a bad mp experience despite having a cool gameplay.

In reflex defense I must say that the editor is the best thing of the game without a doubt...

No, I think it's totally reasonable that you, one time, a long time ago, saw me lose, to someone else, who you easily defeated afterwards. The fact that there are no screenshots or demos is just the red tape man. You know what you know, embrace it!

You seem to take this very personal since I mentioned your embarassment in Reflex and since somebody posted "Got rekt @ Reflex, start bitching about "not balanced game " in discord , get banned, try not to cry , cry a lot "

All I ever wanted is to discuss whether it would make sense to support reflex more instead of cpma because it only splits the community more.

Because you said, " Because reflex is dead too (to a much smaller extent than cpmpa ". Yes reflex 1v1 is more active I agree, however its really lame for you to come into a thread for a cpma cup and start stirring the pot. This cup doesn't have anything to do with reflex.

Reflex has probably had more cups in 2016 alone than CPM had in the last decade. Nothing wrong with that, but it's nice to have a promode cup again (last big one was in 2014 or 2013 even, iirc). You know, the game is still being played.

but if i have to choose, i would definitely pick reflex over "new" cpma, but i guess i can understand those hardcore CPM fans/players, i mean, reflex is not a 100% copy of cpm (and the maps are not the same etc), so i can understand that if you played cpm for many years you don't feel as comfy in reflex than in cpm obviously.

I'd played a little CPMA and PQL before Reflex came out, but I bought Reflex day 1 and the overwhelming majority of my promode time is in Reflex. I wasn't happy with the game for a while, and after playing some CPMA duels with some people the bubble completely broke for me and I'm on team CPMA. So it isn't just oldschool hardcore CPMA players, and it isn't just the maps. We even have some other newer guys who started AFPS with Reflex trying out CPMA.

I think many of the problems for me are more exaggerated in duel though, which is all I really play. Our CTF scene here has been a disappointing mess to me sadly :c

Reflex does some things really well though. I do like the feel of the lg even if the knockback still needs some tweaking. The latest experimental patch seems to still have issues with weapon balance though, even without the lolstake :/

i just like to dive into the game like i would be playing and its impossible with someone babbling nonstop... the babbling also normaly consists of calling out every fucking shot made and predicting what a player has to do only for the player to do something completly different even before the caster can finish his sentance...

As much as I love CPM the small things I consider improvements in Reflex trigger me way too much (seconds on clock, mega behavior, self-damage..) and I'll probably get my ass handed to me. But we'll see I guess.

This. If you enjoy Reflex - play it for the love of it. If you enjoy CPM or other Q3-based game - do the same. There is absolutely no need to create arguments or tension when there is no need to, this is what crippled Q3 in the first place.