Optimus Prime wrote:The different spellings may very well be on purpose due to copyright issues.

actually I don't think so - if i'm not mistaken permission was granted to produce this map and hence there are no such issues.

Don't now why people on here don't like being cooks, remember under siege: A former SEAL, now cook, is the only person who can stop a gang of terrorists when they sieze control of a US Navy battleship.

I think I may have found a bug in this map? Certainly a "Bad Behavior" although I guess it could be a one-time thing.

I just took my turn in game 2672021

after the following sequence:2008-06-24 07:37:39 - scottp attacked Ered Lithui from Sea of Ruhn and conquered it from Wellington_2008-06-24 07:37:50 - scottp attacked Dagorland from Ered Lithui and conquered it from Wellington_2008-06-24 07:38:04 - scottp attacked Mt. Doom from Dagorland and conquered it from ElijahThomas2008-06-24 07:38:14 - scottp attacked Ithilien from Mt. Doom and conquered it from ElijahThomas

I had attacked Ithilien from Mt. Doom with 4 armies and moved 3 armies total onto Ithilien. I then decided to end attacks. I got the message "You cannot make any Fortifications" or something to that effect.

I WANTED to fortify 2 armies from Ithilien onto Dagorland, which is clearly "linked" to Ithilien.

The game is [Game Type: Doubles, Play Order: Sequential, Bonus Cards: Flat Rate, Fortifications: Unlimited, Fog of War: No] so I SHOULD have been able to move those two armies to any connecting territory, including Sea of Ruhn, Ered Lithui, Dagorland or Mt. Doom.

I played this turn using IE 6 with no plug-ins or add-ons or scripts running.

Was this a one-time hiccup with the server, or is there a problem with the map? thanks!

scottp wrote:I think I may have found a bug in this map? Certainly a "Bad Behavior" although I guess it could be a one-time thing.

I just took my turn in game 2672021

after the following sequence:2008-06-24 07:37:39 - scottp attacked Ered Lithui from Sea of Ruhn and conquered it from Wellington_2008-06-24 07:37:50 - scottp attacked Dagorland from Ered Lithui and conquered it from Wellington_2008-06-24 07:38:04 - scottp attacked Mt. Doom from Dagorland and conquered it from ElijahThomas2008-06-24 07:38:14 - scottp attacked Ithilien from Mt. Doom and conquered it from ElijahThomas

I had attacked Ithilien from Mt. Doom with 4 armies and moved 3 armies total onto Ithilien. I then decided to end attacks. I got the message "You cannot make any Fortifications" or something to that effect.

I WANTED to fortify 2 armies from Ithilien onto Dagorland, which is clearly "linked" to Ithilien.

The game is [Game Type: Doubles, Play Order: Sequential, Bonus Cards: Flat Rate, Fortifications: Unlimited, Fog of War: No] so I SHOULD have been able to move those two armies to any connecting territory, including Sea of Ruhn, Ered Lithui, Dagorland or Mt. Doom.

I played this turn using IE 6 with no plug-ins or add-ons or scripts running.

Was this a one-time hiccup with the server, or is there a problem with the map? thanks!

The border between Mt Doom to Ithilien is 1 way - this means that troops can only move from Mt Doom - to Ithilien - not the other way round - this affects attacking and fortifying.

I always wondered about how this one cleared copyright. I assumed that the Tolkien "jacket map" from the book had gone into public domain but actually I see it was only written on the 1950's.... um, so that's really bad. There is no way you are going to be able to revamp this map without some permissions, and since we now have the mega-media empire of LOTR, including officially licensed maps, I doubt that permissions without substantial royalties (that is if Hasbro doesn't already have an exclusive license) are in the cards.

Twill has a lot more enemies with a lot more power and a lot more legal savvy than wicked. And lack & cc are getting caught in the war. Still lack's dad's letter to a former cc'er (NOT wicked) was just off any scale of belief... it was a guarantee that whomever this C*C*B-a-n-n-e-d poster is, they were going to notify Hasbro. Some people just refuse to be intimidated, so don't threaten legal action unless you're willing to face it. And all this scrambling around now, just makes everybody profiting from this site ...well it just looks really really bad, esp since so many of the older threads talk about a variety of copyright infringements. I truly hope CC survives this as I love to play the game, but with the number of premium members at $25 bucks a year...well you do the math...Hasbro's accountants may well be on their way to Canada now

Don't take life so seriously...nobody gets out alive. Blessed are the cracked, for they let in the light

Actually I doubt that its worth Hasbro's while. Cease and desist letters are basically a no-cost way to size up the enemy. It's the starting point for negotiation.

On the other hand, the Middle Earth/Tolien estate people would probably more concerned with this because of the value of their other licenses and the risk to them of their revenue stream drying up elsewhere would be the kicker to come down hard.

I know this takes a major back seat to getting Classic up and running again, but I figured I'd throw this out there. I've always enjoyed the map and would like to see it properly revived.

One thing that stuck out at me in the development thread was this:

AndyDufresne wrote:This map, as created by Tic and MrCon, is an 'original' work inspired by the the 'real' version.

I imagine the decision to essentially do away with middle earth was an issue with Hasbro as opposed to one with the Tolkien estate (god forbid that one would have to involve Warner Bros). If that's the case, then can the map be revamped so as to eliminate Hasbro issues? Can we perhaps make a deal with the Tolkien people? Did ConfigT ever contact the Tolkien people in the first place? Could perhaps a map with identical gameplay be set in Beleriand? What precisely are Hasbro's rights as regards a map of a land to which they can claim no copyright or intellectual property? (tho I suppose that last one applies equally to classic, as no one holds the copyright to planet earth)

I was more upset about this one dying than the classic. Even though I haven't seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies or read the books it was my favourite map because it was so well balanced (you could win from so many continents unlike classic and oceania) and had great aesthetics. Hope to see this one back, hopefully somewhere close to how good it was previously.

Last edited by gho on Thu Oct 16, 2008 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

gho wrote:I was more upset about this one dying than classic, i thought it was the best balanced map (gameplay) and you could win from most continents (unlike Classic and Oceania); it had great aesthetics, one of the best. Ive never seen the Lord of the Rings movies or read the books, but it still was my favourite map.

I was more upset about this one dying than the classic. Even though I haven't seen any of the Lord of the Rings movies or read the books it was my favourite map because it was so well balanced (you could win from so many continents unlike classic and oceania) and had great aesthetics. Hope to see this one back, hopefully somewhere close to how good it was previously.

really? why did you say the same thing twice, just reworded?

i don't get it. you decided to state your case in various forms, but i want to know your motivations...

I sure the issue here has to do with Hasbro's LOTR Risk game, which they probably have exclusive rights to. The obvious solution would be to change the names of everything keeping the same image and game play and put it right back up. It already has different game play than their version so it must be the Middle Earth names as the issue.

Ditocoaf wrote:Or, you could use the same gameplay (which the "centerscape" map is a convenient blueprint of), and place it in a completely different setting. If something sufficiently awesome could be thought of.

...I know! Since the middle earth map was supposedly so balanced... make that on a map of the world!