I think we need a graph reflecting the number of ticket conspiracy theories, "solutions" and threads of earth shattering "insightful info" with the correlation to the price of cheddar cheese in Zimbabwe.

Now THAT would be a useful graph. At least all of the above actually exist.

Ok.. here's the deal/explanation why I and others such as BBadger are totally cynical on this kind of graph/observation/mentality.

We know full well how StubHub works.. please.

This graph and the prices on StubHub are 100% meaningless because right now there are no actual tickets to sell.. nothing but a hollow promise to somehow get tickets to you once they are printed. Not only that, but the nature of StubHub is that there is no verification that anyone has anything in hand to actually sell in the first place. Meaning.. anyone can post anything and set any price.. regardless of whether or not they even have a ticket to sell.

That's why when complete morons people come running into eplaya with tears streaming down their face about how there are tickets for $100,000 up on StubHub and how could the big bad BMorg do this to us with this TICKET FIASCO.. wah wah wah.. It's just laughable. Yes, it's true.. I WILL SELL YOU MY TICKET FOR A MILLION DOLLARS. Hell, I'll sell it for $100k. I have two that I'll sell you for that price. That doesn't mean that the "big bad BMOrg" created jack squat of a ticket fiasco. It just means that there are no more tickets because supply has out stripped demand.

Getting back to the "graph"..

Right now, I could go post that I have 10 tickets @ $2,000. I have nothing in my hand, but I post that just to put feelers out to see if someone bites. If they do, then I have a certain amount of time to find the tickets however I can. But.. you would funnel that into your graph and say "Look!! There's (x) amount of tickets at (y) price.. so that means that the resale market is at (z)!". However.. the very basis for your calculations and observations is nothing but smoke and mirrors and complete BS. Groundless.

The TRUE resale market exists within friend to friend to burner to burner to person to person transactions.. and you have no way of knowing what prices they are really going for. I personally have already assisted in the sale of 4 tickets.. ALL at face value. I don't see that factored in to your graph there.. or the other hundreds/thousands of tickets that have changed hands already for face value or whatever price.

StubHub at this point exists for frankly the not-so-bright crowd that feel comfortable giving away money to strangers in exchange for nothing.. and those people.. well, they belong on an entirely different graph.

..and before you say anything, yes I am indeed a fan of "scare quotes".

junglesmacks wrote:This graph and the prices on StubHub are 100% meaningless because right now there are no actual tickets to sell.. nothing but a hollow promise to somehow get tickets to you once they are printed.

The simple proof of this statement can be found by looking at the "ship date" of the tickets in question. When I researched this a little while ago, only one person selling had a ship date earlier than Aug 20th (the week before Gate opens), and that person had an early August date. If they actually had tickets they could ship them sooner - they don't so they're hoping to buy them cheaper & then turn around and sell them for profit to a sucker, and have given themselves plenty of time to do so.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

I find this graph interesting, data whose relevance will be proven or disproven with time, and I'm having trouble with all the people trolling on the guy for putting it out there. The OP basically said "use it or don't" and if you don't find it useful, fine, quit following the thread.

But continuing to rail against the usefulness of stubhub as a metric and calling the poster a moron just shows how much you are emotionally attached to the notion that there mustn't be professional scalpers who are gaming the system out there. Fine. Go have lunch with Maid Marion and mock everyone who thinks the lottery was a mistake and that scalpers exist. She's pretty emotionally attached to that notion too, as evidenced by her comments at the recent regional summit.

As for me, I'll wait and see, and watch interested as this preposterous situation unfolds. It will be years before we have empirical knowledge of precisely what happened with tickets in 2012, if anyone still cares. With my faith in the executive leadership of the BMOrg so undermined, I have turned my attention to regionals, where I can make a positive difference in policy and operations.

Eric makes the only observation that stimulated any real thought in recent posts of dispute, the notion that the "ship date" being late is indicative of people selling futures, not tickets. That is the most intelligent post I've seen refuting the validity of stubhub pricing as an indicator of supply/demand.

Indeed, tickets are loosening up as people lose interest in going to a festival with only a few members of their tribe or find that this year has such a bad taste that they don't want to deal with the opportunity cost. It's a shame it had to go this way. I'll be mitigating my risk, selling off extra infrastructure, building fewer art cars, and putting more time into regionals until I can establish causation and find it worth the risk of investing so much time and energy into an art collective that could be laid to waste by the caprice of forces known (the BMOrg board) and unknown (demand, scalpers, viral promotion).

junglesmacks wrote:..... Yes, it's true.. I WILL SELL YOU MY TICKET FOR A MILLION DOLLARS. Hell, I'll sell it for $100k. I have two that I'll sell you for that price. That doesn't mean that the "big bad BMOrg" created jack squat of a ticket fiasco. It just means that there are no more tickets because supply has out stripped demand.

So you DO have a price at which you'd sell out. How much lower would you go? 10K? 5K?$1,0000 a quick triple, appears to be enough for some people.

I think the low tier StubHub tix are legitimate. Pro's don't have a feel for this event PLUS if they have tix (coming) they have their own websites/shopping carts that allow them to bypass the Stubhub fee's. If anything, scalpers may be BUYERS on Stubhub at anything less than 1K.There are probably plenty of (soon to be) ticket holders that aren't as "burny" as you or I and see an opportunity to pocket a quick $1500 profit on a pair of tickets. StubHub gives them a venue to do it securely.

What does this all have to do with the price of cheddar cheese in Zimbabwe?

mshaman wrote:But continuing to rail against the usefulness of stubhub as a metric and calling the poster a moron just shows how much you are emotionally attached to the notion that there mustn't be professional scalpers who are gaming the system out there.

I'll put the ixnay on how this quote "just shows how much" your braincell count is at this point. No, please.. keep talking.

Cool inference, bro.

mshaman wrote:I'll be mitigating my risk, selling off extra infrastructure, building fewer art cars, and putting more time into regionals until I can establish causation and find it worth the risk of investing so much time and energy into an art collective that could be laid to waste by the caprice of forces known (the BMOrg board) and unknown (demand, scalpers, viral promotion).

By all means, please do. While you're at it, got any more pseudo-intellectual babble that you'd like to throw at the wall in the hope that it sticks? I'm not feeling this latest diatribe.

weather man wrote:

junglesmacks wrote:..... Yes, it's true.. I WILL SELL YOU MY TICKET FOR A MILLION DOLLARS. Hell, I'll sell it for $100k. I have two that I'll sell you for that price. That doesn't mean that the "big bad BMOrg" created jack squat of a ticket fiasco. It just means that there are no more tickets because supply has out stripped demand.

So you DO have a price at which you'd sell out. How much lower would you go? 10K? 5K?$1,0000 a quick triple, appears to be enough for some people.

Sure I do. I bet you do to. Ask anyone.. I bet they do to.

Is that indicative of a second market that we can draw graphs with and pinpoint a price that a BM ticket is "worth"? Fuck no.

@JS you're in a really troll-y mood today, dude. He offered it up "in case anyone cares". You said "you don't". But obviously you do, because you're still here insulting people instead of moving along. Get over it. If you don't like the thread, quit following it. Smoke dope, get laid, whatever it is you do to make yourself less mean and come back to play with the group again.

@JS, if you were calling me out in a way that was rational and had a basic modicum of respect, debating the statements on their own merit instead of using personal attacks and derision in an attempt to shame others into seeing things your way, I'd be all about it. I don't need you to agree with me or the OP, I'm just pointing out that there are ways other than insult hurling and name calling to make your point. I'm not sure why you're so triggered by the conversation, why you think it's okay to call other eplayans morons, attack their intelligence instead of refuting the specific statements you agree with, etc., but remember, dude, you have over 4000 posts, and some new burner is going to log on and say "Wow, these are the things eplayans say to each other? This is the value set burners hold up for others? No friendly debate, but rather flaming and trolling when you say something they don't like?" Debate is something we as a community should promote. Character attack is not.

I'm headed out to build infrastructure for Apogaea this afternoon, and won't be back until after the festival. You can sit in front of the computer flaming about how few brain-cells I have, sending derisive statements at those who are interested in understanding what went on with tickets this year (an understanding that I think it will take until well after the burn to back with any data), but I'm going out to burn. Go make some art, dude, you'll feel better. See you in a couple of weeks.

I think it's time to put a fork in this thread, it's done. Whether you have much faith in the OP's assumptions, he/she has put together a graph of data based on availability and minimum pricing at a 3rd party web site, and it's been recently updated. Check the link in one of the earlier posts if you care to see it for yourself.