<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Quick and painless is rarely what the victims of these crimes experience. Quick and painless means there's no suffering. And suffer is what these animals should do.<p><hr></blockquote><p>The death penalty is not about revenge for crimes. Someone who is given the death penalty should be seen as a person who is a severe threat to society with no possible chance of being "corrected". Therefore they should be put down in the fastest possible and most humane way. Honestly, just like I'd expect of any other animal.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> Because if other would-be perps know that they will suffer if convicted, maybe... just maybe, they'll think twice before they act.<p><hr></blockquote><p>People have said the same thing about the death penalty. I basically don't see how "scaring" people into not committing crimes will work against these sick individuals. They don't think like normal people. Some may actually get off on knowing they might get caught.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> but it seems that the civilized approach has done little or nothing to slow this growing cancer.<p><hr></blockquote><p>The best crime prevention is education, family, community, and a good police force. I doubt a "suffering" death penalty would phase these sick individuals one bit.<br><br>

The victims were not put down in a humane way, were they? There's a difference between revenge and demonstration. In fact, there's your "education". Teach these killers and would-be killers that death hurts.<br><br>Maybe I'm a tad jaded because I was robbed once years ago, and had the side of my head caved in by a nut case in the subway just last year. Not anywhere near what's being done to our children, but believe me, when you personally experience violent crime, it changes your point of view.<br><br>But just to really confuse you, I barely missed having to sit on a jury in a capitol murder trial in NYC 3 or 4 years ago. 5 drug dealer brothers had ambushed and killed 3 rivals on a Bronx street corner. Scum killing scum. Boy howdy was I relieved not to be empaneled, because I wasn't looking forward to the possibility of having to decide on the life or death of these 5 alleged killers. I don't take the death penalty lightly.<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> In fact, there's your "education". Teach these killers and would-be killers that death hurts.<p><hr></blockquote><p>but thats my point. I don't think that "severe" death penalty would affect these people.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> Maybe I'm a tad jaded because I was robbed once years ago, and had the side of my head caved in by a nut case in the subway just last year<p><hr></blockquote><p>Or maybe I'm a little naive.<br><br>

Gotta go see if I can find me a video copy of "M". German movie from the early Thirties about a child murderer, played by Peter Lorre, who is eventually killed by fellow citizens when the constabulary is helpless to do anything, as I recall. <br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>In fact, there's your "education". Teach these killers and would-be killers that death hurts.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>The best person to ask this is Waleed. In Saudi Arabia they behead people for different crimes. Not sure if they still do the "take his right hand if he steals" thing, but for sure Waleed would know.<br><br>We have had the death penalty since it was brought back in the 70's (76?) and since then has it deterred murderers, cop-killers, and other capital-crime killers? I wonder what the stats are (if any) that show the violent crime rate before and after the death penalty was brought back.<br><br>What this guy did was horrendous to be sure and I'm sure if I was related to the victim I would be screaming out for what you said, but I don't know. Right now death would be too easy for him. Let him sit in prison for the rest of his life being ignored by the general public. (Anyone heard from Ted Kazinski (spelling?) since he got incarcerated? I know I haven't!)<br><br>I read someplace (wish I could remember where, but it wasn't on the internet I know that) that the cost of someone serving a life sentence was cheaper than someone sentenced to death due to the amount of appeals and such. Perhaps someone else knows what I'm talking about?<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Besides, I think the suicide rate is higher among air traffic controllers and dentists (sorry, DrJohn ).<p><hr></blockquote><p>Well, too much time spent looking down in the mouth does take it's toll. I don't know if it's still true or not, but among professionals, dentists did have the highest suicide rate. <br><br>

Well, 'realize' is pushing it a bit - it's still work in progress, but my 'big breakthrough' was when I told a friend I was really angry with someone, and his response was: "Oh, you poor thing - it's really painful being angry, I hope you get over it soon..." For sure I'm still angry with the person who used me - but I can mostly see the pointlessness of being angry, so I'm not completely identified with it, if you get me - I know people (I'm working my way out of being one of these. see) who had something bad happen in their past but they've kind of made it part of them, like "I'm like this because that happened to me" and once you've got a habit like that, an investment, it's harder to give it up, so we lug all this crap around with us, get it out occasionally and look at it or show it around like a polaroid snapshot of ourselves, making loads of effort to stay looking like we do in the picture - like walking up a down escalator.<br><br>While I'm sounding off here, it can also be a big obstacle to self-development (or whatever you want to call becoming a better person) to identify yourself as oppressed, or as part of an oppressed group of people; having overidentified myself in the past with 'gay', 'jewish', and 'abused', and spent a lot of time around other people doing the same, I observe that people (myself awfully included) often end up using "I've been hurt" or "we've been hurt" as an excuse not to take responsibilty for any hurt that we cause - like no-one's allowed to criticise us because we've been hurt (as if we have the monopoly on that!). This is an obstacle to growth because if you can't admit you're imperfections or allow anyone else to point them out, how can you move on? I have to say that amongst all the great stuff feminism has done, it is by no means immune to this problem either.<br>Erm, < /intense ><br><br>Anyway, back on topic, there's a lot of this going on for people who do harm - what they do has a big impact on them too, and not wanting to face it makes it more likely that they'll repeat the behaviour, because justifying something to yourself once to avoid guilt/shame gets easier/reinforced the next time round. But from the buddhist perspective, the 'self' is just a whole bunch of habits strung together - habits, so changeable - habits, so taking some effort to overcome. Yeah, people who do bad things to children need preventing from doing that (for their own good as much as anyone's) - but we've all got our work cut out if we don't want to end up like the kind of furious old people we can't stand now (it's midnight - someone take this microphone away from me...)<br><br>- padmavyuha (currently bisexual, buddhist, and sexually amused...)<br><br>Where the truth is, there had better be love...

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