Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

We're still out on that question. More maths and testing need to be done to really get an idea of if it's going to be worth it or not. Chances are good for combat using rupture, but not looking so good for mutilate.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

I'm a new rogue, and I am wondering why Relentless Strikes is taken over Opportunity. Wouldn't 20% increase to our main attack be worth it? I am not sure how much of our damage is caused by Mutilate. I've read that most of our damage is from auto attacks and poisons. So, maybe the 20% increased damage might only be a small overall dps increase. Just curious.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

Pretty much answered your own question. Evnenom and it's buff are the cause of so much of our damage, that the potential energy return from 2/5 relentless strikes greatly outweighs 20% more mutilate damage.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

Rupture:

To quote aldriana on his spreadsheet:

be a little careful about drawing conclusions from the High Rupture cycle (which one frequently finds oneself pushed into) right now - it was never really intended to be a super-accurate model of DPS. By the time I was writing it T8 was already on the way out, so I didn't put as much time into doing a really good job with it as I have for some of the others.

and (this is for combat, but still relevant):

Couple of points here.

First: yes, the modeling is off. But it's not necessarily a *lot* off. If something is showing as 500 DPS better, it's better. The deviations I'm describing are on the order of 100 DPS or less. It's just that with the difference between rupture based cycles and evis-only cycles only being a couple hundred DPS to start with... that's pretty significant.

Second, just because a fight is interrupted doesn't mean it's bad for rupture. Target switching, time off target, etc... that's not what makes a fight bad for rupture. What makes a fight bad for rupture is stuff that dies before the entire Rupture can tick off. So, Marrowgar, for instance - sure, you can't DPS during the Bone Storm, but so what? It's not like he clears DoTs when he does it, so you still get all the damage out of your rupture. Hence, if Rupture is better on Saurfang, it's also going to be better on Marrowgar.

The direct cause of Rupture being weaker is when it's important to burst down a target that doesn't live for very long, or for which the window of DPS is relatively small. For instance, bursting down portals on Jaraxxus. And there isn't actually a whole lot of that in ICC. The immediate listing that comes to mind is:

So a lot of those fights aren't that hard - or, alternately, the hard part is not the part that is bad for Rupture. Like, Gunship is barely more worthy of notice than trash, and the hard part of Putricide is not killing the adds. So in terms of fights where Rupture seems actively detrimental from a theoretical standpoint in a way that actually matters... is actually pretty small.

Now, there's a secondary consideration that using rupture may require more focus and attention, which may interfere with your situational awareness, or interrupts, or whatever. So it might well be that you perform better as Combat on some fights purely because there's enough other things to be watching that one cannot do Rupture rotations ideally. And that's a fair critique. But it's also not the same thing as having it be inferior in theory as well.

You can draw your own conclusions from that, but generally, it appears that most rogues won't see a noticeable increase in dps from rupture unless your gear is at a lower level than ICC-level. It may come out 100dps ahead on the spreadsheet, but based on your ability to perform the high-rupture rotation (which involves odd energy pooling and possible momentary capping/wasting of mutilates to ensure >90% uptime on rupture...) you may or may not see any change or you'll even lose some dps.

Should I start working on tier9 gear? Not really sure how to go about the transition from Ulduar Hardmode gear to ICC10/25 and pugs. As an additional note, I want to try and hold out on spending frost badges for as long as possible as shadow's edge is a possibility on my warrior and I'll need any extra I can get. But if rogue is more fun then it was in ulduar, and the changes made to it are positive, I'd love to get back on it and put a real effort into maximizing it.., however it will still remain as an alt.

a friend had said this to me, but I favor the community here and their opinion much more:

Well, t9 for rogue is AWFUL. Loaded with blue sockets and not one piece of it has haste on it. More advice to come, trying to kill BC10 with a fail group. If you want to raid with it, I'd definitely spam FoS-H for Blood Weeper, as Bootblade is still a really great OH. Rupture Mutilate is still a viable spec, especially with 4t9 bonus. Tier9 bonuses are absolutely shit, and the stats on them aren't good at all. Horde haste, hit over 315, spec into 51/18/2. You could look into death-warmed belt as a placeholder for ICC10/25 gear since it's really good and cheap now. For mutilate, that chest piece you've got is like impossible to come by now and it's perfectly itemized, keep that until like, Ikfirus' Sack of wonder or something. Honestly, in RuptMut with that gear, you could waltz into ICC10 and do just fine lol.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

T9 gearing favors combat pretty heavily. It's completely devoid for the most part of haste. The AP gains, however, will surely be an upgrade to your gear, so it's worth getting if you've got nothing to do but run t9 and grind badges. Coming from T8, I wouldn't even consider picking up the 232 ilvl t9, and just hold out for trophies or just buy offset items. If you've got combat weapons, you'll probably want to think of picking up some of the ArP pieces (You have the ring from badges already) and respeccing combat. The Duskstalker Pauldrons and Mask of Lethal Intent are better than any tier piece if you're combat, and don't require trophies. The Crimson Star is also nice and loaded with ArP, and you already have it.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

Maybe i misunderstood, but you are saying its worth it to gem to the poison cap, but not continue gemming for hit after that, correct? At first I thought you were saying to gem + hit even over, but I think maybe I was reading it wrong. White hit EP is clearly below (1.85ish if I remember correctly) other options.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

Originally Posted by badgertgb

Maybe i misunderstood, but you are saying its worth it to gem to the poison cap, but not continue gemming for hit after that, correct? At first I thought you were saying to gem + hit even over, but I think maybe I was reading it wrong. White hit EP is clearly below (1.85ish if I remember correctly) other options.

That all depends on your crit. If you're under the crit cap, but over the poison cap, there's no reason to gem hit unless you're combat. Now, if you're over the crit cap, white hit's EP becomes much higher, enough to gem it over haste in yellow sockets.

Re: Mutilate Compendium - 3.3 And Beyond

I could use some advice on what weapons I should be using.

I've tried to get an optimal set using the drops from the new instances + the gear you could get from emblems. Rawr is telling me that 2x Blood Weepers (http://www.wowhead.com/item=50203) is better then a Blood Weeper in MH and an Unsharpened Ice Razor (http://www.wowhead.com/item=50319) in OH. Now every mutilate FAQ I've read has said that I want the dagger with the highest DPS in the MH and the fastest dagger in the OH, so why is rawr telling me to use 2x Blood Weepers?