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Well, as far as "cheaper condoms," they can be gotten for free at Aids Service Organizations. Personally, I let the other person, if they're HIV-, decide. (the last person I had sex with was HIV+, so we went sans condoms). The last two relationships I've had have been with neg partners and neither would wear a condom. I didn't insist on one, I figure the decision, once the poz status is known, is on the neg partner. I would never ask a person to not wear a condom, however. This is just my opinion, it's not bible for everyone.

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

Well, as far as "cheaper condoms," they can be gotten for free at Aids Service Organizations. Personally, I let the other person, if they're HIV-, decide. (the last person I had sex with was HIV+, so we went sans condoms). The last two relationships I've had have been with neg partners and neither would wear a condom. I didn't insist on one, I figure the decision, once the poz status is known, is on the neg partner. I would never ask a person to not wear a condom, however. This is just my opinion, it's not bible for everyone.

of course that's true, except for the more recent designs that (for many) better simulate the REAL feeling. of those, female condoms r the only ones i've ever seen dispensed freely. this might be a useful addition:

Sexually transmitted diseases, including HIVLatex condoms, when used consistently and correctly, are highly effective inpreventing transmission of HIV, the virus that causes AIDS. In addition, correctand consistent use of latex condoms can reduce the risk of other sexuallytransmitted diseases (STDs), including discharge and genital ulcer diseases.While the effect of condoms in preventing human papilloma virus (HPV) infectionis unknown, condom use has been associated with a lower rate of cervicalcancer, an HPV-associated disease. Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentially impermeable barrier to particles the size of STD pathogens.

while I've never been involved in sex that resulted in a broken wall or anything like that, I've been involved in some pretty energetic episodes, so I do not think it is a question of the vigor of movement. What could it be?

The two most common reasons condoms break are 1) not using any or enough lube and 2) leaving an air bubble in the tip of the condom when putting it on. If the condom is on properly and generous amounts of lube is used, condom failure should be next to nothing. For "energetic" (lol) sex or sex that lasts for a long time, lube should be re-applied from time to time. A good time to re-lube is when changing positions. You also need to make sure you're using a water-based lube when using latex condoms.

I don't much like condoms myself, but I do what I have to do to protect a negative partner.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

wow.. I was happy to see over 50 replies to my posting... though a little disappointed after reading them.The majority of you people used my plea for some insight and advice as an outlet to bicker and argue with one another over digressed topics...

A sincere thank-you to those who actually read what I had asked and tried to help me with my problem. I still don't have a real solution, but I appreciate your time in voicing opinions.

to the rest of you.. don't try so hard to be right.. it's not what this forum is for.

..But I was stupid to seek advice from strangers in the first place I guess.

I was wondering when you might stop back in. I don't think you were stupid to seek advice from strangers---it happens all the time---the Am I Infected forum here, 911, Suicide Hotlines, paramedics, first time dental appointments, and more.

Hopefully, there was enough offered here to help you in your decision making process.

Bottomline, and most importantly, anyone who is positive knows the impact and doesn't want you to become positive. And, that's from a group of complete strangers. We care about you and would hope that you maintain a negative status even if we risk being overbearing, with you or each other, in the process of expressing ourselves.

Just like being attracted to a complete stranger, ya never know where a thread will end up, do ya? So forgive us our individuality -- what unites us is intention.

I have been in several discordant relationships as HIV-. Now I am HIV+.

Despite all the sound opinions here about how crazy it would be to consider bare sex with your BF, I think it is a reasonable thing to "consider" - but choosing to go bare would imply a lot more responsibility. There would be some risk for you. So the decision has to be entirely your own, and you need to be ready to own it completely. So what would happen to you, or him, or your couple, if by chance that decision led to you seroconverting? Would that destroy you? Him? Your relationship. It just seems easier and more hopeful to choose to stay protected, for the time being at least. You haven't been together that long. You can discover all sorts of things about your partner over the years - really. One of my partners kept his HIV+ status hidden from me for several years. And we always had safe sex. Nevertheless I was shocked by the deception - that he would choose to do it, and that he could succeed, as well.

You know I was undetectable for 6 months and I already had blip. Maybe its NOT EVEN a blip - I'm waiting to see. What if your bf had a blip and neither of you knew it. What if he had HAART failure and his viral load went up to quite clearly transmissable risk? There is not necessarily anything to tell an HIV+ that he is experiencing a rebound in his/her viral load. And these days, people are getting labs 2-3 times a year, not even every season...

In the flush of new love, people are ready to do a lot for the other and the relationship and thats really cool and important. So its reasonable that the topic came up between you two. The two choices have quite different possible outcomes.

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“From each, according to his ability; to each, according to his need” 1875 K Marx

Just because one is undetectable in their blood serum levels does not mean they are undetectable in their semen levels.

no, but having undetectable levels of HIV in blood DOES mean that one is far more LIKELY to have undetectable HIV levels in semen. and that what viral matter does turn up in semen is more likely to be inactive virions.

I can tell you for a fact that your information is incorrect. I have an undetectable serum viral load and have had for 5 years and I don't have a undetectable semen viral load. Have you ever had a semen viral load?

I can tell you for a fact that your information is incorrect. I have an undetectable serum viral load and have had for 5 years and I don't have a undetectable semen viral load. Have you ever had a semen viral load?

is this meant as a serious response? not only have i never had a semen viral load test done, i'd wager the vaaaaast majority of poz men never have, either. i also haven't handled biological samples in test tubes since high school in the '80s. all of us in this discussion r epistemologically relying the research of others, and that research is what i highlighted earlier. u r a sample size of 1...and u didn't even mention WHAT ur semen viral load is. 100? 100,000? share.

is this meant as a serious response? not only have i never had a semen viral load test done, i'd wager the vaaaaast majority of poz men never have, either. i also haven't handled biological samples in test tubes since high school in the '80s. all of us in this discussion r epistemologically relying the research of others, and that research is what i highlighted earlier. u r a sample size of 1...and u didn't even mention WHAT ur semen viral load is. 100? 100,000? share.

The two most common reasons condoms break are 1) not using any or enough lube and 2) leaving an air bubble in the tip of the condom when putting it on. If the condom is on properly and generous amounts of lube is used, condom failure should be next to nothing. For "energetic" (lol) sex or sex that lasts for a long time, lube should be re-applied from time to time. A good time to re-lube is when changing positions. You also need to make sure you're using a water-based lube when using latex condoms.

I don't much like condoms myself, but I do what I have to do to protect a negative partner.

not that i ever expect to be using condoms again myself, having wasted time with all the ostensibly constructive advice about "proper" usage. however, i do notice that i've yet to see anyone on this forum ever mention silicone lube, which is condom safe and lasts far longer than water based.

i'd also like to contrast the properties of such lube, in that it gets less slippery as it thins out from friction, but NEVER to a level of more friction than being lube free. contrast that with water based lube, many brands of which actually get sticky as they dry. like half-dry honey, n eventually like envelope glue.

the ultimate ideal for mechanical hiv-transmission-prevention has to be invisibility...the more one has to warp their sexual response around the mechanical requirements of prevention, the more onerous and resented the burden will be.

nice link, old news. penetration of hiv-drugs into the genital tract is known to be less than in the bloodstream, n varies by drug. semen viral load lags behind blood viral load in many or most patients as a result...the duration and severity of that lag also being variable. all of this has been covered in the subsequent controversy of the Swiss statement. in fact, most of the coverage of the Swiss statement included variations on this "semen viral load" proviso from other authorities.

doesn't change the point at all. raw sex with a consistently undetectable partner is low risk. if anything, the upshot of ur link is that the longer one's blood levels of HIV r undetectable, the more likely one's semen (and presumably vaginal) viral load is to become undetectable.

nice link, old news. penetration of hiv-drugs into the genital tract is known to be less than in the bloodstream, n varies by drug. semen viral load lags behind blood viral load in many or most patients as a result...the duration and severity of that lag also being variable. all of this has been covered in the subsequent controversy of the Swiss statement. in fact, most of the coverage of the Swiss statement included variations on this "semen viral load" proviso from other authorities.

doesn't change the point at all. raw sex with a consistently undetectable partner is low risk. if anything, the upshot of ur link is that the longer one's blood levels of HIV r undetectable, the more likely one's semen (and presumably vaginal) viral load is to become undetectable.

Don't be posting incorrect information when you can't back up your statements with scientific facts.

"Did you know, in one leading survey almost half the people who object to condoms are emasculated heteros, followed by prissy gay tops at 40% and miscellaneous types for the final 10%"

it is precisely such comic propaganda that underlines the strategic weakness of relying on condoms in their various present forms for hiv-prevention among the sexually active.

my own ANECDOTAL experience is that there certainly appear to be far more men going raw than there r activists to tell those men how "prissy" and "emasculated" they are...and the men going raw r having a blast, sexually. my sexual enjoyment without condoms dwarfs what enjoyment i got with condoms, to such an extent that all arguments against my experience r simply absurd to me, and nothing more.

besides new and more pleasurable condoms, effective micobicidal lubricants r called for. there was that new experimental integrase inhibitor announced a couple of months ago that was long-lasting enuff to be used in sexual lubricant, as well as in pills requiring less than once-daily dosing...

oh, here's an interesting Q&A about the possibility of eradicating new HIV infections with testing and treatment alone...taking for granted that "antiretroviral therapy would drive the viral load down, thereby drastically decreasing HIV-transmission risk"

1. The plural of anecdote is not data;2. The forums at thebody.com are shite.

MtD

so u've got nothing, basically.

Past, ur taking a risk going raw with ur bf, but the longer he's really undetectable, the lower that risk is. if ur gonna stay with him, but don't want to take his raw cock n load up ur ass, u may want to consider an open relationship...it works for some sero-discordant couples. for some tops like myself and possibly ur bf, mouth is a poor substitute for ass, and jerking off and "oodles' of other non-penetrative "sexual" acts r no substitute for ass or mouth.

if u decline to take his raw cock, u may be able to maintain a longterm commitment anyway...but eventually he's probably gonna want raw ass, n u might want to work out a mutually agreeable way for him to get it elsewhere if he's not getting it from u.

if u do decide to give him raw ass, maintaining his viral load at an undetectable level becomes something u'll have a greater interest in. in ur case i would insist on seeing test results, and making sure he takes his meds and avoids anything that interferes with those meds.

u also need to take ownership of the possibility of sero-converting, and how such an event will affect ur life. it is a small but real possibility...especially (but NOT only) if u go raw.

Past, ur taking a risk going raw with ur bf, but the longer he's really undetectable, the lower that risk is. if ur gonna stay with him, but don't want to take his raw cock n load up ur ass, u may want to consider an open relationship...it works for some sero-discordant couples. for some tops like myself and possibly ur bf, mouth is a poor substitute for ass, and jerking off and "oodles' of other non-penetrative "sexual" acts r no substitute for ass or mouth.

if u decline to take his raw cock, u may be able to maintain a longterm commitment anyway...but eventually he's probably gonna want raw ass, n u might want to work out a mutually agreeable way for him to get it elsewhere if he's not getting it from u.

if u do decide to give him raw ass, maintaining his viral load at an undetectable level becomes something u'll have a greater interest in. in ur case i would insist on seeing test results, and making sure he takes his meds and avoids anything that interferes with those meds.

u also need to take ownership of the possibility of sero-converting, and how such an event will affect ur life. it is a small but real possibility...especially (but NOT only) if u go raw.

The decision could be masochistic, suicidal, uninformed, ignorant, just plain stupid, and a longer litany but not necessarily insane. Seek help from a mental health professional for further edification and treatment.

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String up every aristocrat!Out with the priests and let them live on their fat!

I would say XXX... and inaccurate as Rod stated (thank you for quoting, I would've missed that mini-porn of a reply).

I'm sure that the OP will appreciate the vivid imagery nonetheless.

Bottom line dear OP, ask yourself what you love more: yourself and your health or a passing moment of pleasure. Where will this lover be three years down the road? Have the two of you discussed what would happen if you were to become positive? The only person who can truly answer your original question is YOU. No love, lover, f-buddy (even if they were so phenomenal that sparks go flying in the bedroom), no orgasm is worth one's life. Believe me when I say that most of us would do things differently if only time could be turned back.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

this is the last time I check for responses and last time I ever use this site for advice

-peace & love-

ah dunn gitty?

Just because a few people had some disagreements you feel that any advice that was given should be discarded? That's what the ignore function is for (even if you feel that you should use it on me or anyone else who at some point got distracted by all the noise within this thread).

Hopefully you weren't expecting us to encourage you to have unprotected sex. That's not what we're here for at all.

Best of health to you.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

Hi Past:Sorry you feel the way you do about the discussion in the thread you originated.Your initial opening post contained these words:

"Any advice?Anyone in serodiscordant relationships? Would unprotected sex with my bf be an insane decision?"

I looked up the definition of advice:"recommendation about action: somebody's opinion about what another person should do"

I believe, if you read through the responses to your posts that is what you got - advice (recommendations and opinions)Now, if there was something else you were seeking then it would be your responsibility to identify that and go from there (i.e. "not looking for advice, just wanted to hear from other people who are okay with not using condoms with a positive, undetectable person", etc.) -- believe me when I say that I am not saying that to be flippant with you. I really just feel that you got frustrated at the responses and conversation that your initial post generated, but that is what happens when a great number of people are posed a question that specifically asks for advice -- there are a great number of opinions that you will get each either supported or in some cases not supported by facts - but remember that opinion isn't always fact - it is just that, opinion.If you ask for a advice and get frustrated it is something like asking someone to loan you $5 and when they say no you get upset -- if you get upset you really weren't asking - you were demanding/commanding. So, if you truly were seeking advice and you get different opinions then don't be frustrated; if you are frustrated then maybe it wasn't actually advice you were seeking, but approval for a decision that you have already made up your mind about (neither wrong with either, but different results in regards to how you will feel after you've made a post and people have given input.) All the best

Past,I don't care about the arguements going on in this thread, but I must say that if someone is not going to put on a condom to keep you safe, yet they declare their love for you; then they truly don't love you, or themselves for that matter. If sustaining an erection is the problem, then a shopping trip to a sex store, or ACE Hardware is in order. I have used cockrings for most of my life, and they work miracles in keeping an erection going for hours.

O've been in a serodiscordant relationship for 22 years, and he is still HIV-.

Nuff Said.

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The Bible contains 6 admonishments to homosexuals,and 362 to heterosexuals.This doesn't mean that God doesn't love heterosexuals, It's just that they need more supervision.Lynn Lavne

Just my 2 cent. I have been positive for 22 years, meds for 14 and been with my negative partner for 13 years. Even though I have been Undetectable for 3 years, I would never, NEVER, put my partner is a risky situation. My love for him is too strong and I could not live with myself knowing I gave the man that I love more than anything in this work, HIV.