Some of my own FOO issues have been about having huge thick steel walls up to everyone. When DDay1 happened, those walls came crashing down, and it was a really good thing. Now I cry at movies, bad news on tv etc. I allow things to touch me in a way I just wasn't capable of before. This process is continuing, there is more still to work on. I don't want to put my walls back up.

So I have a real issue with detaching, 180 etc. I have tried it, but found ALL my walls going back up. It seems like I just don't have the skills yet to raise some and not others, and I don't want to live with all my walls up anymore.

I know that this means I keep getting hurt by WH. I'm trying to find some way through all this that helps me to own my own choices whether to be hurt or not, without raising my walls up.

But then there's also the issue of love. I still love WH. I don't want to hate him, or to be indifferent to him. I know that he may never reciprocate, but that's his choice.

Has anyone found a way through that still allows them to love their WS and still allows them to keep their walls down?

This sounds like an issue that should be explored in therapy. Maybe psychodynamic. It sounds like having no "walls" leaves you vulnerable, but full "walls up" leaves you isolated. I think it's evidence that you may have to learn to trust and relate to the world be aide somehow that got misaligned. It is not a choice between all or nothing, you must learn a new way.

"The trick to forgetting the big picture is to look at everything close up" -Chuck Palahniuk

Posts: 33 | Registered: Jun 2012

Softcentre39166Member # 39166

Posted: 11:02 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

Yes, I know I have to figure out a new way. So right now, I'm choosing to keep my walls down while I figure it out.

I can't afford counselling anymore, but had some until recently which helped me identify the FOO issues that caused the walls to be up. What I'm aiming for is to have...garden fences, where I can lean over and chat,or pootle in my metaphorical garden without being bothered,but still be approachable if someone wants to stick their head over the fence.

But I have no idea how to do that with WH.

Does no-one else on the S/D forum want R? I do, so very much. But I know that WH isn't in that place. I want to stay open to the possibility in the future, but how do I do that?

I gave you more than I ever got back
You left me here to forget about that
All the things you thought you had have gone
Let that be a lesson to you
-Richie Kotzen, "Special"

Posts: 2446 | Registered: Feb 2010

Newlease♀ 7767Member # 7767

Posted: 11:31 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

Are you longing for R with the person your S is now, or what you thought he was or what you hope he could be?

If you don't learn how to detach, you are in for a whole lot of pain for as long as you continue this way.

I think most of us long for R, but if the S isn't willing, there is not much to be done other than to detach and save yourself.

A simple motto that helped me was, "Let go or get dragged."

Sending strength and peace.

NL

Even if you can't control the world around you, you are still the master of your own soul.

Posts: 7851 | Registered: Aug 2005

Nature_Girl♀ 32554Member # 32554

Posted: 11:37 AM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

Oh Honey, your thoughts here are very muddled. I think you're dealing with some major codependency issues. You're grasping at straws, trying desperately to craft the perfect scenario in which you're still married. You're willing to accept the lowest level of existence for your marriage.

This isn't healthy. This is dysfunction. This is bad for your health & spirit.

You are an adult. You don't have to detach. You can remain in bondage to your marriage which is already over. But know this: you refusing to move on isn't going to give you any control over your husband or the outcome of this disaster. You have no control over him. You have no control over this marriage.

You cannot reconcile all by yourself. You cannot reconcile if your spouse does not want to reconcile. You can't have a marriage with just one person.

I'm so sorry you're going through this pain. You're just dancing on broken glass though, Honey.

I'm being honest here so easy. To me it reminds me of that character Rose on Two and a Half Men. He never reciprocates and she remains bat shit crazy towards him. It's not healthy. At some point you will need to accept it. Until you do you will remain in a dark place whether you think you can manage it somehow or not. Walls or no walls it appears to be a lack of your own self esteem and self respect. Many of us lost our self esteems (and some self respect) when all this went down. But later on we recognized that and worked to gain it back. It's OK to still love your WS. I still do mine deep inside. But it's when it constantly directs your every move is when it's unhealthy. My guess is that the pain you suffered awakened deep emotional feelings you always had but had no reason to show or express. You've finally tapped into them. I think with you it might be a part of your own self-growth. Getting dragged isn't going to bring them back. You will just look like a love sick puppy to him and he will feed further off of that.

BS(me) 48
WW 47
1 son 14 yrs old
Married 18 yrs, together 21 yrs

"You never know how strong you are until being strong is the only choice you have." ~ Bob Marley

Posts: 1509 | Registered: Jun 2011 | From: Zombie Land

Softcentre39166Member # 39166

Posted: 12:31 PM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

Oh, I don't want to reconcile at any cost. There are some major things about our situation that would need to change first (like NC with COW!). But I'm not willing to write it off just yet, either.

Why?

It could be co-dependency. But actually, being single is easier in many ways. Not having to think about his needs, day to day and just make decisions without having to ask or wait for his procrastinating, well it's quite liberating.

It's partly my faith. I'm a Christian and made a vow before God to love WH for better and for worse until death do us part. Well this is the worse. And it was a three way vow. WH may have broken his part, but the other two of us haven't. I also believe that the two of us became one when we married and I am trying to hold onto that. And part of my faith is believing that love is a choice. I choose to love him. I choose to love him knowing the worst about him. It's how God loves me, I'm certainly not perfect. It's how I love our children. And both of those loves have taught me how I should love WH. What I need to figure out, is how to do that without detaching but with healthy boundaries.

I think there are lots of people who still love their WS, but their WS is not willing to make the changes.

At some point it becomes a question of how much are you willing to put up with? How little respect/love/compassion are you willing to tolerate?

I am in the mist of WH 2nd A, and want so badly to R, but at this point he won't even give up his EA. I had a plan, and told him he had until January to get his head out of his ass at which point, I would file for divorce if he had not.

Tomorrow will be one month, and I simply can't do it any longer. If he wants his EA, he can have it, but he won't have his family too.

At some point you have to face reality. How you deal with it, is up to you.

Do you really want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with you? The way I see it, if they don't want to fix their own brokenness, they don't have it in them to love or care about anyone else.

Does no-one else on the S/D forum want R? I do, so very much. But I know that WH isn't in that place. I want to stay open to the possibility in the future, but how do I do that?

I would suspect that there might be many what don't want to S or D, but this forum really is focused on questions concerning separation and divorce. The reconciliation forum is where you will hear more of the struggles of balancing a reconciliation attempt. If you haven't read in there, you might do so to see if those stories resonate more with where you are.

Think of the haters in your life as sandpaper; they’ll scratch you up time and time again but in the end you’re polished, smooth, and spotless..while they end up useless

We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give.

Posts: 54138 | Registered: Jun 2007 | From: Big Blue Nation

Nature_Girl♀ 32554Member # 32554

Posted: 12:45 PM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

I'm Christian too. I made those same vows. So did STBX. He broke them in a myriad of ways. When he broke those vows our covenant was broken. I stayed for years despite continued, unrepentant cheating & abuse because I wanted to continue to honor my vows. I held on due to a very warped misunderstanding of my spiritual obligations. I knew my covenant was broken, but I stupidly put the institution of marriage on a pedestal.

You know what? God does not care more about the institution of marriage than the people IN the marriage. God cares more about you, Honey. Really & truly.

Don't make your marriage an idol. Don't sacrifice yourself for an idol.

I think the problem is...that he talks the talk and I want to believe him.

He's away for the next 5 days at this wedding that the COW is also at. Just before he left he basically said that he didn't want me to shut him out, that he wanted me to tell him if I was going to. That he hadn't forgiven me for anything and how to do it when he was scared of being hurt again. That he was going to think about the stuff I'd said to him over the weekend (that he was intentionally hurting me by still being friends with COW and that he seemed to want to hurt me, that at some point I would have to just block him out, that I'd forgiven him most things but he seemed to resent me and hold onto past hurts and use it to justify hurting me)...and yet again I find myself hoping that maybe this time he'll get it, he'll figure it out.

He's kept the door open for me, telling me that he doesn't know what he wants. He wants to move into a flat for 6 months (he's currently living with his parents) to give himself some headspace to think and figure out what he does want.

Which makes it harder for me to decide it's over. Faithwise,I can't call time on us and he still hasn't fully decided, so I'm stuck.

Umm and...well, myself and some others, incl people who don't tend to get it wrong on this, have been told by God that there will be R. So a big part of me feels that if I give up, then I'm not trusting God. And you know, God has been my rock in all this.

Oh and thank you to all those sharing and helping. I am taking in what you're saying. I tend to respond and think things through as I say them (socratic), and then think over the whole conversation in more depth over the next days.

Of course he wants you to keep the door open, Softcentre. It isn't that he can't decide - he doesn't WANT to. Why would he? As it currently stands, he gets everything he wants. COW on his plate and you on the side burner.

We call this cake eating, and it is soul suicide for the BS who's letting it happen. Are you willing to let this go on indefinitely? Because he will likely keep doing it until you break.

You can call me NIK

“The most difficult times for many of us are the ones we give ourselves.”
― Pema Chödrön

Posts: 29086 | Registered: Aug 2011

Nature_Girl♀ 32554Member # 32554

Posted: 12:59 PM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

You are not stuck. This is "learned helplessness". He has absolutely no consequences for his covenant-breaking behavior. None. You are being a fantasy wife. Well you know what? He has no right to a fantasy wife. He does not have the right to a girlfriend while he is still married to you.

He doesn't get to call the shots. Marriage is supposed to be a joint endeavor. He doesn't have the right to put limitations on you but have none for himself. He only wants you to wait for him because that's massive ego kibbles for him. He only wants you to tell him in advance that you're finally done with him because that will give him time to craft a BS story so the OW will let him move in with her. He says he's going to think about stuff over the weekend? Come on, really? You fell for that? He's going off for the weekend with his girlfriend, and you think he's going to waste a moment of time thinking about you? He doesn't know what he wants? Yes he does. He wants his girlfriend sex & he wants you at home. He's a two-timer, but he's too cowardly to say it and you're too frightened and spiritually abused to admit it.

There is no timeline or due date for any of this. If you need time to think about it and determine your future, then do it. You don't have to decide right now. If you still believe there is a chance to R, then leave no stone unturned until you are comfortable saying, "I've done everything I possibly can to save our M, but it is over." Then you will sleep comfortably at night. Some reach that stage faster than others. It's not a race, and you need to do what is right for you and your own conscience. However, I strongly urge you to watch is actions over his words (my tag line isn't what it is for nothing). Trust the actions, not the words.

I didn't want to lose my M. I wanted to R. However, I knew I could not live in a one way M where only one spouse upholds those sacred marital vows. When I made those vows I made a solemn promise, and I don't make promises unless I fully intend to keep them. That is just my own personal integrity. I kept my promise over the M even though he broke his time and again. I stayed for the kids and for the fact that I did not want to violate my own promise. Eventually I discovered I simply could not do it any more. I tried every possible avenue to save the M so I could sleep at night knowing I did so. I left every possible door cracked open for him to walk through, and he wouldn't do it. I STILL don't want to see my M end, but for my own sanity and future well being it must happen. It took a LONG time to get there, and that path through hell was getting where I am now almost killed me. But now that I have made the decision, I am comfortable with it and I know it is in my best interest for an emotionally healthier future.

Do I still care about the POS? Sure, on some deep down level. Do I still love him? The jury is still out on that right now, but probably on some equally deep level. Being human means you cannot simply turn your feelings off and on like a faucet. That's okay. But also know that sometimes you have to be willing to sacrifice the M in order to try to save it (if it can be saved).

Detaching is NOT giving up. Your WS detached from you long ago. You are telling him outright that it is ok for him to treat you this way. It is not ok!!!

I resisted just like you. I believed my marriage was different. My situation was different. My WS was different. Nope! It took too many times of me hitting my head against the wall to see that he wasn't changing, the situation wasn't changing, so I had to change.

Stop letting him walk all over you. He doesn't respect you and you are telling him that this is ok. It's not ok,

You CAN lovingly detach. Please read Codependent No More. Just read it with an open mind. Also read Narcisstic lovers.

You are worthy of so much more. I know it hurts and you feel like if you just do this or do that or say this or read that or agree with his fucked up logic that he will change...he won't. You have to change, what you are doing isn't working.

Forget about him doing the work. Forget about him going NC with COW. You do the work on you. You go NC with him. Just like he is telling you by his actions that he doesn't want to reconcile, you are telling him with your actions that you will accept whatever he gives you. That is not ok. You deserve better.

(((Softcentre)))

It's a process. Be nicer to yourself than you are to him. Fake it till you make it. Read the books, do the 180, tears will still flow and you will still have your bad days but don't give anyone else your power.

Me: BS 37
Him: WS 37
20 month old DS
Married 5 years, together 8, DIVORCING!!! (taking forever)
DDay: 3/1/13 (4 Month PA while I was pregnant)
Sometimes all you have to do is forget what you feel and remember what you deserve.

Posts: 413 | Registered: Apr 2013

Eyeofthetiger♀ 40359Member # 40359

Posted: 7:52 PM, September 12th (Thursday), 2013

I am kind of feeling the same way as you. I want to R with someone who cheated, left, and doesn't want to be with me. I obv don't want THAT person but the person he was or could be. It's leaving the life and the person behind that hurts.

I am not convinced this is the end of my marriage. Denial? Probably. But for now, I am focusing on being a better me.

In a lot of relationships like this, one person is the pursuer and the other the distancer. The more the pursuer pursues, the more distance the other person puts between them. If you back off, he may become the pursuer in that is within him. If it isn't, you will see what he really wants.

Trust me, I know the feeling about wanting your M to work no matter what. I don't agree that it makes you codependent. I am a very independent person but I would still put my life on the line for my marriage.