Suzan wrote:And then Carlisle charged at the Volturi and I briefly thought: "Peace-Love-and-Understanding Carlisle is charging first?!"

I think I agree with your entire post. But this little quote... I too, was to caught up, to process it. But thinking about it, I think I would've been happier with it if they would've let someone else charge first. It did seem out of character to me. But, I think that's a result of knowing the books so well. If you'd just seen the movies, it won't seem that much out of character that Carlisle is the first to charge (?).

Actually, that just gave me an idea about it...remember in New Moon, when Bella and Alice are racing to save Edward and Bella asks why Alice and the others can't just go after him and he would hear in their thoughts that Bella was alive. Alice says that it's possible to lie with your thoughts...Edward would know that...and he would know they would try to stop him and that they'd be thinking "She's alive." But Aro doesn't know Alice that well and he seems to regard Alice as pretty infallible...what if she used her thoughts to lie to Aro about the outcome...making him see an outcome that was completely made up?

But shouldn't Aro then just see that you're lying? Because Aro just sees every thought you ever had. In the book, don't remember the exact lines or quote; but when Edward goed to Aro to give him his hand, Aro can see everything. He knows every plan or strategy the Cullens or friends have thought out. Since Edward reads everyone's minds around him, with that touch, Aro can also know what every single one of them has thought for the previous time. Even without the book explaining; Edward said himself in NM that Aro can read every thought you've ever had by holding your hand.

Taking that in mind and Alice was lying/dreaming up another vision; shouldn't Aro then be able to know she's lying?

Suzan wrote:And then Carlisle charged at the Volturi and I briefly thought: "Peace-Love-and-Understanding Carlisle is charging first?!"

I think I agree with your entire post. But this little quote... I too, was to caught up, to process it. But thinking about it, I think I would've been happier with it if they would've let someone else charge first. It did seem out of character to me. But, I think that's a result of knowing the books so well. If you'd just seen the movies, it won't seem that much out of character that Carlisle is the first to charge (?).

after watching it a second time I realized that this should have been my hint that this wasn't real... The book version of Carlisle wouldn't have been the first to attack and risk his family and friends in an all out fight. It would have been Edward or Esme how would have attacked first or maybe even Peter and Charlotte.

These violent delights, have violent endings...Like fire and gunpowder, they consume what they kiss

Suzan wrote:Agreed. Alice simply should not have been able to see either the wolves or Renesmee. That being said, I didn't mind AT ALL! That fight scene was just sooo good that I didn't even think of that mistake.

I have to admit that I completely fell for it. As did all the people in my theater. I've heard so many rumors beforehand about the big twist and that it was such a big deviation from the book. I heard it wasn't going to be a vision and people were going to be killed left and right. So I was really nervous! And then Carlisle charged at the Volturi and I briefly thought: "Peace-Love-and-Understanding Carlisle is charging first?!" But I didn't even have time to process that thought before he was beheaded! That was such a shock! My hand imediately covered my gaping mouth and it didn't leave that position until the reveal. It was hard to watch the fight, but my eyes were also glued to the screen! When Carlisle was beheaded, I thought: "They're going to put him back toghether after the fight. Don't panick. It's going to be fine." ... But then the flames came and I was almost screaming NOOOO!!! That's when the panick really kicked in, still convinced of the rumor that it wasn't going to be a vision. And then even more people died! And more! Jasper (which now I don't get, because he is supposed to be the most experienced fighter). And the wolves, Seth first and Leah in the ravine I believe. Almost Esmee. And to top that all, they made it seem like Edward was going to die in that ravine as well! OMG was my heart in my throat! By that time my rational thinking was long gone, because I should have known he wasn't going to die. I knew they were still getting their happily ever after. (Although one of my wild theories was that they'd all die and have their happily ever after in heaven, since Edward didn't believe he would go to heaven and all. LOL)Each time one of the Volturi died I was like YEAH! Tanya and Kate getting their revenge on Caius: YES!! Although I was completely grossed out by their method... Owch! I loved how terrified Jane was running away from Alice and finally got what she deserved! And Marcus... Poor Marcus. I was almost glad for him. And then Edward and Bella working together to bring down Aro!!! LOVED seeing them as a team and LOVED that they killed Aro!!! I almost wish it could have happened in real time. Almost, because when Bella trusted the flames at his face you could see she was about to get attacked by half a dozen black cloaks...When finally it was revealed that it was just a vision... OMG was I relieved! Okay, it first I was angry that they fooled me, but I'm not a sore looser. I have never felt that close to having a heartattack! They really had me good. I was so convinced it was real that it scared the heck out of me when I saw Alice and Aro just silently standing there. The whole theater jumped in their seats and gave relieved and impressed "WOW!"s and "PHEW!"s. I was literally shaking for a long time even after the movie ended.

Truth be told, I think it kind of overshadowed the rest of the movie in my mind. It was just that AWESOME!! I couldn't fully appreciate the sweet ending because I was still recovering. But at least that gives me an excuse to go see it again. I wonder if it will feel differently now that I know what's going to happen...

You've explained EXACTLY how I felt about that scene! Though I COULD have known about the whole vision-thing, because I told my friends about the rumors on the internet. But I think I was so shocked when it happened, and because it all happened so fast, I simply didn't think about it any more and got into it too! When Alice said 'and know you know', the whole theater was like: HOLY ****. Everyone was a bit angry & emotional, but after leaving the theater I was really enthusiastic. Going to see the movie again next week!

Suzan wrote:And then Carlisle charged at the Volturi and I briefly thought: "Peace-Love-and-Understanding Carlisle is charging first?!"

I think I agree with your entire post. But this little quote... I too, was to caught up, to process it. But thinking about it, I think I would've been happier with it if they would've let someone else charge first. It did seem out of character to me. But, I think that's a result of knowing the books so well. If you'd just seen the movies, it won't seem that much out of character that Carlisle is the first to charge (?).

True. People who've only seen the movies simply think of Carlisle as 'the leader' of the pack. In that way it's kind of logic that he's up first. But I was also thinking: okay, I know Carlisle also cares about Alice, but it would have been 'more right' if Jasper wanted to protect her first, being her partner and all that.

But why should that have hinted that it wasn't real? It didn't seem right to me either, but if it was a true vision that Alice had, then that's what WOULD have happened if Aro decided to stick with the course he was on, right?

And yes, it does say Aro CAN see every thought you ever had...but does it transfer through automatically or does he kind of sift through and look for relevance in those cases? Just because he CAN doesn't mean he does. Like...Edward can hear everything around him, but he doesn't always use it...he tries to tune it out. Perhaps Aro kind of...fast forwards to the important bits, so he doesn't always necessarily see what's behind it?

Yes, Aro would definitely be able to tell if Alice was lying or making up the vision. The vision is intended to be exactly what would have happened if it had played out like that.

On the subject of Carlisle attacking first, with it being Carlisle, he may not have been intending to attack. This is probably why the others didn't follow him. He knew Aro and the Volturi best, so maybe he was hoping he could play peacemaker, but knew he couldn't do it from where he was. Also, Alice was his daughter, so he may not have been thinking straight. Anyway, it was probably the shock value of having him die first that made them do it that way.

I've never thought of him as the hippy dippy sort of peace/love kinda guy. Instead, I've thought of him as very MORAL. He is against harming innocent people because it is wrong. He doesn't want his friends to risk their lives in something that isn't their fight.

However, when his daughter Alice is in the clutches of the Volturi -- well, I can see him considering that something to fight for.