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That is so sexist my head just exploded. Sorry, but no dice. I'm a witness. I am consciousness and unchanging. All that is in me. My physical manifestation comes with XX chromosomes but that's about it. How much you choose to identify with some biological traits or your cultural brainwashing is a matter of choice. As a Ni dom you should really understand. Tisk tisk.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

My point is that for women who tend to be more masculine (i.e., NTs; maybe Ts in general), and for men to who tend to be more feminine (i.e., NFs; maybe Fs in general), this is likely a bigger problem.

I don't think so. I have worked closely with many women who have "manly energy" if by that you mean that they are go-getters, no nonsense movers and shakers, ENTJs, ISTPs, ESTPs and ESTJs and I've never noticed a lack of admirers. The guys admiring them weren't in any ways "effeminate". Not that there's anything wrong with being a more poetic, softer energy kind of guy. I dated one for some years and he was sexy. Handsome and intriguing. I thought he was manly.
As for NF guys... My husband is an ENFP and generally considered the most manly man around. Though there is a stereotype perpetrated on this forum that logic and calculus makes a man "manly" I would say there is a whole another stereotype I've come across that I would use for "manly". I would say that if I buy into manly it's the motorcycle riding, hod-roddin' housebuilding, alligator wrestling, pecks of steel, chest hair touting, gasoline smelling piece of man specimen I'd endow the label "manly". That's my kind of manly that there. Burt Reynolds. John Wayne.

Originally Posted by Zarathustra

I'm talking about femininity in terms of behavior.

Maybe you don't understand what that is very well.

I've essentially heard as much about Australian women.

I'm an NF and I have aux Fe so I come accross relatively warm-ish, but I'm for the most part more focused and dynamic than many of the men I work with when there is something to be done. They used to call me boss lady, so you know. And I'm a fluffy NF

That is so sexist my head just exploded. Sorry, but no dice. I'm a witness. I am consciousness and unchanging. All that is in me. My physical manifestation comes with XX chromosomes but that's about it. How much you choose to identify with some biological traits or your cultural brainwashing is a matter of choice. As a Ni dom you should really understand. Tisk tisk.

For the moment, I'm not gunna finish reading the rest of your idiotic, grave-dredging post.

Considering how poor of a job you've done understanding what I said, your post doesn't really warrant a response.

Nevertheless, I will gift you with one: when did I ever say females were not able to engage in masculine energy?

@Zarathustra
I don't see how being a witness is being masculine. Or any of the other things you stated.
I did dabble in accidental thread necromancy.
Even the basic female archetypes have more variety than the picture of womanhood you painted including fierce and abominable archetypal characters. Those energies are not given, borrowed or partaken to, but a part of.

But don't go around making nonsensical statements and falsely accusing someone of sexism.

If you don't understand, the better thing to do is to ask for clarification.

The concept that I was pointing to is complex.

These videos are decent starters.

There is other information I can point you to as well.

And, per your post, absolutely, Kali/Shakti is a manifestation of feminine energy.

In fact, what I was basing that (2-year old) post off draws heavily from the Hindu spiritual tradition.

I was accusing you of sexism because I don't see how these concepts have anything to do with gender or anatomical parts (I haven't heard implied before that bhakti would be a gender related yoga. In Christian mystical tradition the devotional love for Christ surely isn't reserved for only females either.) As for the witness, it's a concept found in many traditions and is not gender related. Is it the witness, buddha nature, the holy guardian angel, the higher self, it is our true nature and birthright. Gender has none to do with it. I appreciate you sharing these videos but I wouldn't really take them as credible sources over longstanding spiritual traditions.

P.S. No woman needs a man as a witness. The unity of the "male" and "female" happen within us. Sad is the person who assigns a part of themselves to another.

I was accusing you of sexism because I don't see how these concepts have anything to do with gender or anatomical parts...

Where in that post did I say that they did?

Originally Posted by Reverie

(I haven't heard implied before that bhakti would be a gender related yoga.

I don't know why you're bringing up bhakti yoga, but I actually have heard it explicitly stated that bhakti tends to be more female-oriented (and female-derived). This doesn't, by any means, preclude men from it, but it does tend to appeal more to women.

Originally Posted by Reverie

In Christian mystical tradition the devotional love for Christ surely isn't reserved for only females either.)

Once again, I don't get why you're bringing up these other things.

Originally Posted by Reverie

As for the witness, it's a concept found in many traditions and is not gender related. Is it the witness, buddha nature, the holy guardian angel, the higher self, it is our true nature and birthright. Gender has none to do with it.

Once again, when did I say it was gender-related?

The more honorable thing to do here would be to admit that you read things into my (years old) post that I never said.

Originally Posted by Reverie

I appreciate you sharing these videos but I wouldn't really take them as credible sources over longstanding spiritual traditions.

Well, if you knew anything about these men, you'd know that they are both (likely) far more adept students of the major longstanding spiritual traditions than you or I.

I don't know why you're bringing up bhakti yoga, but I actually have heard it explicitly stated that bhakti tends to be more female-oriented (and female-derived). The doesn't, by any means, preclude men from it, but that it does tend to appeal more to women.

Once again, I don't get why you're bringing up these other things.

Once again, when did I say it was gender-related?

The more honorable thing to do here would be to admit that you read things into my (years old) post that I never said.

Well, if you knew anything about these men, you'd know that they are both likely far more adept students of the major longstanding spiritual traditions than you or I.

I was bringing up bhakti because I actually watched those videos. The first one opened with that lady who seemed to think that the reason there is Sunyata type meditations is because "Men invented them" whereas women would be more prone to be pagan. And then he made a comment about women like Mother Theresa being somehow more devotional, implying a kind of a dynamic of male-witness, female-bhakti or devotional and for some reason, which I don't see any ground for, drawing some type of shoddy relationship conclusions from this in the vein of "men are from mars and women from venus". What have these concepts to do with normal regular human relationships? None whatsoever. Those concepts have to do with an individual's relationship with the divine/their own true nature.
P.S. Don't tell the Hare Krishnas that you think Bhakti's for girls... or christians... or bhakti yogis.
And I'll still stick to other sources for info.
P.P.S. About the concepts I was referring to. they were from your post stating:

Masculine energy =/= males... wow. Masculinity is not the same as being a man. What the hell.

You do understand the concept of masculinity and femininity, right @Reverie? There are feminine males and masculine females just the same as there are masculine males and feminine females. It's an energy. He wasn't talking about the actual genders.