lack of warmth:Just stop policing it and in time it will return to its natural state as the man made portions will breakdown and natural lifeforms will reclaim it.

Just like Detroit.

Doubtful. They took a lot of rocks, boulders, and things like that from the river to build foundations and to smooth out the river. They'd have to find the waste from a mine dig or a quarry to fill it, with no guaranty that it would actually do what it's supposed to do. Might just muddy it up.

lack of warmth:Just stop policing it and in time it will return to its natural state as the man made portions will breakdown and natural lifeforms will reclaim it.

Um....GR isn't in the same kind of dire straits as Detroit. It's not doing brilliantly as a city, but it's experiencing both economic and population growth. And that's better than most other medium-size Midwestern cities can say for themselves.

HMS_Blinkin:lack of warmth: Just stop policing it and in time it will return to its natural state as the man made portions will breakdown and natural lifeforms will reclaim it.

Um....GR isn't in the same kind of dire straits as Detroit. It's not doing brilliantly as a city, but it's experiencing both economic and population growth. And that's better than most other medium-size Midwestern cities can say for themselves.

Restoration of rivers to their former state strikes me as an over-hyped, unrealistic, hippy-dippy utopian idea. The rivers are resources that man should take full advantage of. I am not saying we should pollute them or make them ugly and unusable for recreation, just that we shouldn't hesitate to put up a damn or divert needed water if it can be done without significant negative impacts. I mean genuine impacts, not those dreamed up by enviro-weenies who think the world will fall apart if one drop is taken away or if one little fishy dies. Also, lets be realistic, nobody is actually planning to restore them to their former state. Just look at the one in the article. Do you really think they are planning to remove those bridges and support columns just to restore the natural state of the river?

About 10 to 15 yrs ago they used to have "Thunder on the Grand". A weekend that they had drag boats on the smooth section of the river downtown. It was great and was 5 bucks bring your own chair and exciting. Then it stopped and I am not sure why. I asked one of the racers why they weren't coming back the next year and he told me it was political. I would like to see GR look into getting that race back again. Would probably bring in more money than rafters and wouldn't require changing anything.

I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

Thrakkorzog:About 10 to 15 yrs ago they used to have "Thunder on the Grand". A weekend that they had drag boats on the smooth section of the river downtown. It was great and was 5 bucks bring your own chair and exciting. Then it stopped and I am not sure why. I asked one of the racers why they weren't coming back the next year and he told me it was political. I would like to see GR look into getting that race back again. Would probably bring in more money than rafters and wouldn't require changing anything.

It probably made God angry, or pissed off the Dutch/Conservative ruling class, so they stopped.

ZeroCorpse:I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.

//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

I don't know what part of Grand Rapids you were spending time in, but what you describe is far from reality. While it's true that there are a lot of churches out here and there are a handful of businesses that openly promote Christian values, the vast majority of the businesses and people are nowhere near what you describe. I guess if you're really over-sensisitive to something, you tend to see it everywhere. My wife is like that with spiders.

There's no Chik-fil-a around here, either. About the closest you're going to get to a Christian chicken joint is 20 minutes south of the city, at the Byron Center Hotel, and Byron Center just voted to start allowing liquor sales on Sunday last week, so there's that for ya. Even a heathen like yourself will feel right at home.

ZeroCorpse:I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

ZeroCorpse:I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

StreetlightInTheGhetto:ZeroCorpse: I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

It sounds like you didn't properly appreciate Founders.

Which, incidentally, just announced that they'll be distributing to Maryland starting April! Whaaaa!

As an ex-military transplant from the G-rap with framed 6's of Founder's Dirty Bastard and Bell's Two Hearted Ale on the walls in my bar downstairs, this made my year. Also: Hop Cat. I always make sure to stop by once or twice whenever I'm visiting the folks.

ZeroCorpse:I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

Also, strangely enough, despite being home to the largest Bible printer in the world (Zondervan), Grand Rapids itself, like most metros, still always votes blue, and it drives the 'thumpers in the suburbs nuts.

ZeroCorpse:Thrakkorzog: About 10 to 15 yrs ago they used to have "Thunder on the Grand". A weekend that they had drag boats on the smooth section of the river downtown. It was great and was 5 bucks bring your own chair and exciting. Then it stopped and I am not sure why. I asked one of the racers why they weren't coming back the next year and he told me it was political. I would like to see GR look into getting that race back again. Would probably bring in more money than rafters and wouldn't require changing anything.

It probably made God angry, or pissed off the Dutch/Conservative ruling class, so they stopped.

Probably. Or it might have a been a political issue in the drag boat associations not wanting to drive all the way up here from the St Louis area. The racer I talked to wasn't specific.

The Kalamazoo Speedway is having problems with just those kinds of people right now. Track has been there for 65 years and suddenly the area government wants to put noise restrictions on the track to make it 85db or less. A highway makes more noise. Don't buy a house near a race track if you like quite country settings.

Even if they did make all the changes you still won't get the rushing stream/river effect anyway as you won't hear the gurgle of the water over the sound of the highway which is about 50 ft away through most of downtown.

Thrakkorzog:Even if they did make all the changes you still won't get the rushing stream/river effect anyway as you won't hear the gurgle of the water over the sound of the highway which is about 50 ft away through most of downtown.

StreetlightInTheGhetto:ZeroCorpse: I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

It sounds like you didn't properly appreciate Founders.

Was going to mention Founders, looks like you beat me to it. Also, Bells, although that isnt technically GR.

Ima4nic8or:Restoration of rivers to their former state strikes me as an over-hyped, unrealistic, hippy-dippy utopian idea. The rivers are resources that man should take full advantage of. I am not saying we should pollute them or make them ugly and unusable for recreation, just that we shouldn't hesitate to put up a damn or divert needed water if it can be done without significant negative impacts. I mean genuine impacts, not those dreamed up by enviro-weenies who think the world will fall apart if one drop is taken away or if one little fishy dies. Also, lets be realistic, nobody is actually planning to restore them to their former state. Just look at the one in the article. Do you really think they are planning to remove those bridges and support columns just to restore the natural state of the river?

Didn't you read the article? They're going to dismantle the entire town, and re-create the river exactly based on original survey drawings from the 1800's. It's going to be quite amazing.

ZeroCorpse:The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

myislanduniverse: ***snip*** It sounds like you didn't properly appreciate Founders.

Which, incidentally, just announced that they'll be distributing to Maryland starting April! Whaaaa!

As an ex-military transplant from the G-rap with framed 6's of Founder's Dirty Bastard and Bell's Two Hearted Ale on the walls in my bar downstairs, this made my year. Also: Hop Cat. I always make sure to stop by once or twice whenever I'm visiting the folks.

I love Founder's and Hop Cat, I always try to go to both whenever I'm in Grand Rapids. Speaking of Grand Rapids beer, have you tried Brewery Vivant yet? Really good stuff.

ZeroCorpse:I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

That's Ottawa and rural Kent counties. GR, while conservative in general, isn't like what you describe.

That's Ottawa and rural Kent counties. GR, while conservative in general, isn't like what you describe.

Lost my comment. Silly double login requirement. Anyway, the city just decriminalized cannabis in November, for example. It's like most anyplace else, get outside the metro area and things get rural. Old folks, conservative. Youth and people in the city, not so bad.

myislanduniverse:Thrakkorzog: Even if they did make all the changes you still won't get the rushing stream/river effect anyway as you won't hear the gurgle of the water over the sound of the highway which is about 50 ft away through most of downtown.

You mean this?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Route_131#S-Curve_replacement

I remember hearing once upon a time that the S Curve held a Guinness record for being the closest bit of highway to a building or something... Anyone know if this is true?

I just looked at the area with Google Earth and it is more than 50 ft. More like a quarter mile in some spots but the highway is always very busy. The S curve looks real close to a building in the pictures but I am not sure if it's a record.

ZeroCorpse:I just moved away from Grand Rapids for the last time. If I can help it, I will never live there again.

It's the conservative armpit of Michigan. You can't drive two miles without seeing some business marquee giving a shout-out to Jesus, Fox News, or Chick Fil A. Some of them just have a little Jesus fish on their sign or door, letting the heathens know their business isn't welcome there. Other places will actually play Christian music over the public address system, so you don't have any doubt that they love Jesus more than you do.

A few of the businesses make sure to tell you, on their marquee, that they support high-profile companies that oppose same-gender marriage. During the whole "Occupy" thing, I saw a few businesses proclaiming that "Occupiers won't be served", which is idiotic since I don't recall too many Occupy protests happening in Grand Rapids.

If you're not a Christian or Conservative, Grand Rapids always feels a bit oppressive. Some people who have lived there for a long time have gotten used to it, but all one needs to do is get away to understand just how repugnant and unwelcoming the people of Grand Rapids (and the surrounding towns) are to non-Christians and non-Conservatives.

The place has improved SLIGHTLY over the years, but the same mentality that allowed some angry conservative to smash my car window and crumple up a sticker supporting a Democratic candidate is still there. The same mentality that got me fired once because the owner of the business saw me carrying a copy of "The God Delusion" is still widely accepted as the norm. The place looks all nice and sweet, but under the surface is the toxic rancor of religious persecution, xenophobia, and political intolerance.

I hate Grand Rapids, Michigan.

/However, oddly enough, they do have one of the better science museums in the state.//The "cool" people in the downtown area are mostly pretentious louts.

Most of what you allege about Grand Rapids is pure Bullshiat. But you have a victim mentality that won't permit you to take responsibility for the fact that you are probably incompetent at whatever you are attempting to make a living at and it's so much easier to blame somebody who disagrees with your religion or sexual preference than to face the facts. But having said that, thanks so much for leaving. I'm sure we'll get along just fine without your whiny ass anywhere in West Michigan.