The Herald reports that the actress, best known for starring in Whale Rider, is telling friends she’s landed the part of a Sand Snake in the upcoming season. The specific Snake is unknown at this time, as three of Oberyn Martell’s daughters will be turning up in season five.

The newspaper cites Castle-Hughes’s Twitter activity as another possible hint at casting, with her traveling to London and Belfast recently and frequently expressing enthusiasm for the show.

We have reached out to HBO for official confirmation of a casting.

Ours is the Fury: This is an unconfirmed rumor at the moment, but I’d love it if it turns out to be true. She’s a terrific actress and would be a good fit for any of the Sand Snakes. We’ll keep you posted on any official confirmation or denial of Castle-Hughes joining the show.

Apparently she is not that tall but based on a quick google search she could totally be Obara. She has really nice and unique features and with phisical training she could rock the part. I need official casting news HBO!

Because her name was not on the leaked partial casting call and because of the apparent expansion on the roles of the Sandsnakes (evidenced by the leaked audition tapes of Tyene, Obara and Quentyn) some people think they are cutting Arienne. I think that is HIGHLY unlikely but who knows, everyone is entitled of an opinion…

Sorry for the double comment but i must ask this. When was Ellaria assuming Arianne’s role hinted in the auditions? I’ve seen all the leaked tapes and Ellaria is not mentioned a single time in any of them.

Using Google as my friend, I see that this young lady was in “Whale Rider” when she was just a kid. She was very good in that though I didn’t recognise her straightaway. She looks a bit pale in the publicity shot at the top of the feature but she passed for a Maori in “Whale Rider”. She could be Tyene if the show-runners go the “wiggy” route, as they have with Cersei and Daenerys.

I don’t know if they’re cutting Arianne or not, but I can see D&D deciding to make Oberyn’s daughters the viewpoint characters quite easily. The family dynamics in the book would change quite dramatically, but I’m excited to see this subplot on screen. And Castle Hughes is a GREAT choice, whatever the role. As would her Whale Rider costar Cliff Curtis :)

The Obara audition.
The person talking to Obara who mentions that “Cersei loves her children and we have one of them” (paraphrasing).
At first glance you’d think that she’s Arianne, but there’s a line in the audition tape said presumably by a third character (who is definitely one of the Sand Snakes, I think Tyene) where they say “Mother.” Now, in the books Ellaria isn’t the mother of any of the three Sand Snakes being cast in this season, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to imagine they change, say, Tyene into being Ellaria’s daughter. And what else could it be, really, if this “mother’ is suggesting using Myrcella against Cersei?

I was impressed with her performance in Whale Rider…
Not sure she exactly fits any Sand Snake to me, but her talent will win me over I’m sure.

She is not as physically imposing as I pictured Obara and not physically how I pictured Nymeria, but she does have a unique look that may fit the desired look for Nymeria as the show described her in the casting leaks.

From what I remember from the audition, Obara directs a comment to Nym and Tyene, who are apparently fighting (She tells Tyene to give up because Nym’s mother taught her the whip before knife and fork)and then another person appears (The actress reading for obara clearly changed her posture at that moment) and they start speaking. I really can’t recall “mother” or any other evidence of a third person in the dialogue… Well, in a couple of weeks (Comic-Con) we probably will have the near-complete official castng list so we’ll know soon.
EDIT: Just to point out, in the books, from all of the main Dornish characters, Ellaria is the only one who does not want more revenge because she thinks it will just lead to more death, so I think if they do as you said they might be changing Ellaria’s character quite a lot.

Regarding Arianne, count me as being among those that are hopeful that she’ll be in the show. At this point, I’m more concerned that we haven’t heard anything (as far as I can recall) about the Iron Islands/kingsmoot/Greyjoy brothers storyline.

Ok, so, WOW, if this is true. Its possible she’s any of the three – they don’t need to keep the blonde for Tyene, and I’d considered Nymeria to be even darker than KCH, to be honest (she’s going to be the new NCW in terms of people we refer to by initials). Agreed she’s probably not imposing enough to be Obara, but hell, she’d be fine anyway.

If she is cast, she would be the first ever Oscar-nominated actor to be on the show (yes, really).

So who knows if she’s in it, but if so, that’s great. She’s grown up to become very pretty, and would work well as any of the three main Sand Snakes. I’m jazzed they’re casting these characters. (Hell, she could be Arianne as well, as she’s the right age, and I don’t believe she’s been cut as we have no evidence, just absence of evidence.)

I know, and that makes this potential change even more annoying since it not only deprives us of Arianne and her relationship with Doran but also alters Ellaria from a semi-pacifist into yet another revenge seeking anti-establishment woman (and we have enough of that from the Sand Snakes already).

What I can tell you for certain is that there was a line that went something like this: “Mother, Nym, Obara.” We don’t know if it was “Mother.” with another character (Ellaria maybe) responding “Nym, Obara.”

And believe me, I really hope I’m wrong (Arianne is one of my favorites). There is definitely some confusion as to what characters the woman off screen is reading for so there’s still a chance, but I see it as yet another piece of evidence (alongside Arianne missing from the casting sheet and GRRM not mentioning her when he said he expects Doran, Hotah and the Sand Snakes to make the cut).

All I’m saying is keep your hopes down. They might give us a surprise, but for now I’d rather get over Arianne getting cut so it doesn;’t hurt when it’s official.

That’s right, I had completely forgotten about that rumor — thanks for the reminder. I really am curious as to what they’re going to do with that storyline. At the very least I thought that we would see/be informed of Balon’s death this past season, but that obviously didn’t happen. I know the storyline isn’t universally beloved by book readers, but I think the show would lose quite a bit if it were completely excised.

I generally agree. But I think we might get Euron, considering they HAVE to follow up with Yara returning to Pyke and getting blame for escaping the Dreadfort (Bryan Cogman said it will happen, so probably on screen) and of course the leeches. They could have easily removed the Balon leech from the show- I was half expecting it to happen in season 3.

I can’t imagine her as Obara or Tyene, my first thought was Lady Nymeria, too. But let’s not forget, none of the Sand Snakes have even been mentioned by name so far. The producers could easily make up completely new characters.

well, she started following a bunch of the cast’s twitters between June 5th and June 11th and didn’t start tweeting about the show until after that…so something happened during that time…yeah she’s definitely playing someone

People who are worried Arianne will be cut…
Janina Gavankar has been to the last two Game of Thrones NYC premiers and has a few selfies with GRRM himself. She was also on another HBO show (True Blood) That has just had it’s final season. My theory is that they had already had her selected for the last year or so and the reason that there was no casting call was because Arianne had already been cast.
Don’t panic people.
Also, I think Obara.

Yeah, I know, and even though I will be kind of bummed if they cut Arianne, I’ve always liked the Sandsnaked better so that won’t be that bad. If they include her, great, if not, well, let’s hope they do a good job with the plot. On Ellaria: I agree, if they do that Dorne will seem just like “revenge, revenge, revenge” and sort of one-dmensional…
On who is Keisha playing: I really doubt it is Tyene, not because of the hair but because she has to be the youngest and look “classicaly” beautiful and sort of inocent. I really can’t see her as Nym but that’s probably because my expectations for her character are high since she is one of my favorite secondary characters. I think with the right training, some nice boots that make her slightly taller and the right costumes she is pretty much what I pictured Obara while reading. (In the phisicality subject, I may be wrong but if i recall corectly Nym is described as being tall in the books, not that they will follow it but if they can skip some phisical aspects of a character they can do the same with another).
I hope we get at least one new cast member confirmed until Comic-Con… Two weeks is a looong time ;)

The Loon:
well, she started following a bunch of the cast’s twitters between June 5th and June 11th and didn’t start tweeting about the show until after that…so something happened during that time…yeah she’s definitely playing someone

May also suggest that cast positions have only recently been filled basically in the last week.

Not saying that rules out Arianne, but I think Janina looks considerably older than the desired 18-25 age range they stated for Sand Snakes in the casting leaks. And by that I mean she may look her age, but she looks good! XD

Agree that Tyene is the best bet, and there’s no real reason she has to be a blonde for the show. In fact if D&D are in part using DOrne to bring more persons of color to the show they might prefer not to use one.

Don’t know whether Arianne is in or not but if they decided to scrap Aegon(and I think they have,) then anything else Arianne does of importance could be given to one of the Sand Snakes.

Balon’s doomed and I think they’re keeping the Kingsmoot and Euron-but Vic and Damphair are out for sure. I also don’t think Qwentyn made the cut either.

Why would they drop Balon’s leech in the flame if nothing happens with it? I think it’s quite certain that balon will die, but they might skip over the king’s moot and just make Euron king immediatly and then give him a smaller role then in the books. Basicly some of the victarion travels and maybe some dialogue of how the reach has been attacked by ironman. They also don’t have to do all battles onscreen, they did not in the first two seasons and it worked very well for me.

Maybe they simply decided to rename Arianne since it sounds too close to Arya (and Yara). At least it depends on how you spell Arianne; to me it’s always been “Arian” which is almost identical to Arya.

I guess it technically works but I think the original intention within the script was to cast someone who’s mixed race with some darker skin than that. Trying to be politically correct but you get the point.

I also doubt they’d restrict themselves to that if they find someone that is absolutely right for the role.

Glr99:
People who are worried Arianne will be cut…
Janina Gavankar has been to the last two Game of Thrones NYC premiers and has a few selfies with GRRM himself. She was also on another HBO show (True Blood) That has just had it’s final season. My theory is that they had already had her selected for the last year or so and the reason that there was no casting call was because Arianne had already been cast.

Your theory is incorrect. Gavankar is a series regular on NBC’s fall series “The Mysteries of Laura”, and will not be able to film any other show.

First, Momoa, now possibly Castle-Hughes. As a Polynesian, this news pleases me. Always thought my peeps would be suitable picks for the Dothraki or the Dornish. If they can somehow cast Cliff Curtis, I would be over the moon.

So, why is everyone thinking this is Obara or Tyene. She is palying Nymeria think about it. obara is shorthaired no?, tyene si Blonde no? So , she is not balck so It’s not Sarella. It’s 100% Nymeria like why are you even disccussing this…

Yeah, Tyene’s hair is pretty irrelevant, length or color. Almost everyone wears wigs. I doubt they feel obligated to stick with blonde hair for her anyway. A source told me that Tyene is going to be the daughter of Oberyn and Ellaria in the show. That’s not officially confirmed but it makes sense they’d want Ellaria to have a blood connection to one of them.

While i also think she will be Nymeria, a books appearance of Sand Snakes will be almost irrelevant for the show. I doubt we will get ugly Obara or blonde Tyene. What was mentioned in the casting leaks is more important. Ït is possible she could play other Snake.

Yes, and probably the one that makes the least sense. Arianne was the centerpiece of the Dorne storyline in AFFC and she seems to have great promise going forward too.

Cutting Arianne is going to cause people to call D&D sexist since she’s the only direct female heir in the books. I for one don’t think that the intention came from sexist thoughts (but I’m sure people will spin that as soon as the cut is confirmed). I’m more disappointed at the loss of the Doran-Arianne relationship which really made Dorne for me.

Her using Myrcella’s crowning plot consciously as an act of vengeance and subconsciously as an act of rebellion against her father for seemingly ditching Dorne’s female equality customs by forcing female equality in Myrcella’s crowning. Also, Arys Oakheart and their general relationship- somewhere between love and manipulation, we lose probably the best instance of sexposition in the entire books and of course we lose potential ties to Aegon (marriage?).

From this picture she looks like an Obara, but searching for more pictures of her, I think that Maori lineage could make her perfect for Nym. Even so, I don’t care about the Sand Snakes, I want Arianne!!!

It still seems odd that they would cast so many Dornish characters, and yet leave out Arianne, the main POV character in Dorne. Furthermore, it would seem even more unusual to cut out Varys’ master plan(“Aegon”). So that leaves Trystane taking the place of both Arianne and Quentyn, and if he meets the same fate as Quentyn, it leaves Doran without any children. Either Arianne or Quentyn has to be included, IMO.

People seem to be speculating that Arianne is cut and Trystane will take the place of Quentyn. But that makes zero sense, if he will still meet the same fate as Quentyn. Do you really think Doran is just going to have one child on the show? I’ll believe it when I see it.

Tyrion mentions in Season 2 that Myrcella was to marry the Martells youngest son, so in show-cannon Doran has at least 2 kids. Unless they decide to ignore that line, which is of course a possibility, since I doubt most people would remember it.

Another great casting choice, she is an exceptional thespian. Although she is too well known of an actress for just a Sand Snake, she has to be Arianne, unless Obara’s character is elevated to major supporting and takes Arianne’s place.
Almost forgot, can she speak with a Spanish accent? If not could she be a some other character.

Ugh, please no. She was in Whale Rider when she was 10, that was a looooong time ago. Really disliked her in Almighty Johnsons, one of the weakest actors in the show. Other than that she hasn’t done any notable work. Generally I think GoT does amazing casting, but if this is true I will be very disappointed.

This is excellent news – pending confirmation, of course. Keisha Castle-Hughes was terrific in The Whale Rider (for which she received a well-deserved Oscar nomination), and I was surprised that she didn’t work more in its aftermath (although I understand that she had some family obligations that kept her busy for a while, including the birth of her first child). The only other project I remember seeing her in was a brief appearance in Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith.

Regarding which Sand Snake she might be playing, I think that she might be a bit too slightly built for the physical demands that would come with playing Obara (including the fight scene reported by this website). However, far be it from me to presume that she couldn’t pull it off. She has the right look for Nymeria, and Tyene is a possibility as well. Of course, Tyene is blonde in the books, but that’s hardly prohibitive. If the rumor that Ours is the Fury heard regarding Tyene’s parentage being changed so that she’s Ellaria’s daughter rather than the daughter of a septa winds up being true, then Castle-Hughes would be perfect for that part.

On a somewhat unrelated note, I can understand why people are fretting over Arianne’s possible exclusion, but I still think that it’s presumptuous to assume that she’s been cut from the show. I’m going to wait until we know for certain that she isn’t being cast before I start worrying about the potential implications her absence might lead to. I will say that despite her popularity, I think that the Dornish storyline can indeed work without her, especially if her long-term role in the story is to marry (f)Aegon. For a multitude of reasons, I’m starting to think that the possibility of (f)Aegon being cut from the show is increasingly likely.

The Sand Snake with most potential to play a major role in the books is probably Nymeria, since she’s joining the small council in the next book. Obara is actually the only one who remains in Dorne. But let’s see. Maybe they will expand all of their roles?

I don’t think Arianne is getting cut. IMO, her omission from the casting calls meant that Nina Gold & co. had either cast her or were in talks with several actresses for Arianne. She’s a major POV character in AFFC. I don’t see them casting Keisha Castle-Hughes for a minor character like one of the Sand Snakes, unless they increase the roles with the reduction from 8 to 3 or 4. She’s a good physical match for Arianne being shorter and is very talented.

I’m not trying to sound like an asshole but all these Arianne has been cut opinions are really dumb. We all know for sure Doran has more than one children since they mentioned his youngest son and not only son. Jesus Christ people do you even listen to dialogue on the show.

Yeah but dialogue from season 2 doesnt mean anything and they very well could have changed their mind about certain characters now that D&D know the end points directly from GRRM.

It’s like Tyrion’s mention of Theon’s uncles back in season 1 which was mostly done to give some backstory to the minor character that was Theon bound to get more importance later on. Maybe since then, D&D changed their mind about including them (personally, I never take dialogue as confirmation of inclusion of characters unless they are specifically brought up by name more than once, ala Stannis or Mance).

I’ve wondered about that too…No Arianne and an aged up Trystane could possibly mean no Aegon as well… Remove the possible Arianne and Aegon alliance altogether and replace it with Trystane and a Dornish army instead of a sellsword army. He in effect could take the place of Arianne and Aegon. Or remove Aegon’s arc altogether and have Dany return to Westeros to take Storm’s end etc… It would streamline many sub-plots. I’m not saying I think that is their plan, at least I hope not!

Even if I expect some pretty big changes in the next 3 seasons, I’m not sure how I would feel if they did something along those lines…. Very drastic changes.

Going to go a bit out there on this one but is there a chance Arianne may become a Sandsnake? With Trystane/Quentyne seemingly becoming the next in line for Dorne then Arianne’s relation to Doran doesn’t have to be as strong. It’s given that she pretty much considers herself a Sandsnake anyway so maybe they can toy with her parentage a little to make it work. Maybe she could have been the result of Doran having a liasion with Ellaria or even being Oberyns daughter after he had a liasion with Dorans’s wife (I believe she is now his estranged wife so that could work it’s way into the storyline). When I look at the actress I see Arianne and not one of the other Sand Snakes and I’d gladly drop any of those three (what do they actually do really?! ) to make room for her character. Hopefully they’ll just cast Arianne and we can avoid having to fiddle with things so much but if they must change things this would be my preference. I must admit I’m getting worried about how far they may stray from the original storylines. I don’t mind changes that have to be made but there is potential for far too much pointless fiddling which I think will be the case if they drop Arianne and the two Greyjoy brothers.

Maverick:
I’m not trying to sound like an asshole but all these Arianne has been cut opinions are really dumb. We all know for sure Doran has more than one children since they mentioned his youngest son and not only son. Jesus Christ people do you even listen to dialogue on the show.

Yeah as if that means anything. They’ve changed their minds about a lot of things despite dialogue (Tysha anyone?).

Tyrion Pimpslap:
People seem to be speculating that Arianne is cut and Trystane will take the place of Quentyn. But that makes zero sense, if he will still meet the same fate as Quentyn. Do you really think Doran is just going to have one child on the show? I’ll believe it when I see it.

I completely agree. This would be a massive change to the Dornish storyline and I don’t understand why it would be done. Why would the bastard daughters of Oberyn – the second son – be given more weight in the story than the daughter of the ruler of Dorne? As viewers, we already know that Doran exists. IMO, Quentyn could be eliminated but I don’t see Trystane taking his place as BBQ.

I’ve wondered about that too…No Arianne and an aged up Trystane could possibly mean no Aegon as well… Remove the possible Arianne and Aegon alliance altogether and replace it with Trystane and a Dornish army instead of a sellsword army. He in effect could take the place of Arianne and Aegon. Or remove Aegon’s arc altogether and have Dany return to Westeros to take Storm’s end etc…It would streamline many sub-plots. I’m not saying I think that is their plan, at least I hope not!

Even if I expect some pretty big changes in the next 3 seasons, I’m not sure how I would feel if they did something along those lines…. Very drastic changes.
*Shrug*

Those would be major changes and I, for one, would not be happy about it. However, you have created a plausible scenario on how Arianne and Aegon could be eliminated and have the story move forward in a similar fashion. I don’t find the Sand Snakes to be particularly interesting as individual characters. Arianne embodies all of their strengths and weaknesses – beauty, willfulness, desire for vengeance, brains, interest in power – plus has the birthright. Hopefully, Oberyn’s (and Pedro’s) immense popularity has not convinced D&D to mess with the Dorne storyline.

I don’t think they reduced the total number of Sand Snakes in the show; Oberyn specifically tells Cersei during the garden conversation scene that he has 8 daughters, and he mentions Elia by name. I think only the oldest three will be appearing next season, which would actually be in line with the books.

It actually could mean quite a bit. For example, Willas and Garlan Tyrell are never mentioned in the show, meaning that it was easier to have Loras be the heir to Highgarden. It’s one thing to cut characters that were never once mentioned in the show, quite another to cut characters that have already been mentioned, even if indirectly/not by name.

Zollander:
Guys, I don’t want to start anything, but this chick is pretty damn white, and Dorne isn’t. Why isn’t this an issue for more people?

Possibly because they’re not as hung up on race as yourself?! She looks as “white” as Pedro Pascal.Indira Varma is half Indian, half Swiss/Italian but did a great job as Ellaria. Just because she hasn’t got a Hispanic sounding name doesn’t mean she can’t play Dornish!

I’m an islander and there are three types of islander. There are Polynesians who are pretty much the faired skin, there are Micronesians who are light brown, and the Melanesians who are pretty much the darkest ones. It is really insulting when you call a pacific islander too white, you might get your ass kicked for that.

Ghost: Where are you getting Dorne isn’t white? There are salty, sandy and stoney Dornish. They all don’t look the same.

I can’t believe the “she’s too white” stuff is starting already.

^^ This.

The sad thing is I when I saw this casting I thought her lightness or darkness would not be at issue since:
1) She is half Maori
and…
2) The Sand Snakes are mixed race of varying skin tones from pale-skinned blondes with blue eyes to dark-skinned with black eyes… A physical description range covering literally almost every person on Earth! XD
and…
3) She is a f#$#@%g Oscar-winning actress!

mariamb: Why would the bastard daughters of Oberyn – the second son – be given more weight in the story than the daughter of the ruler of Dorne?

There are lots of important characters in the story with lesser (or nonexistent) social status. Oberyn is a popular character, especially in the screen version, and so his daughters will be of immediate interest to readers and nonreaders alike. Whereas Doran and Arianne are basically unknowns to the unsullied at this point.

Personally, I was disappointed the Sand Snakes didn’t have more of a role in AFFC and ADWD. I understand why people are concerned Arianne may be cut, but if she is and the roles of Obara, Nym, Tyene and Ellaria are all expanded, I think that could be a reasonable change.

(I may however be the only person who’s disappointed that _Sarella_ didn’t make the cut. She’s my favorite Sand Snake by far).

I know nothing about her as an actress, but she’s accomplished, and the trailer for Whale Rider… she looks like her “father” reborn… fantastic! Honestly, who has GoT cast poorly yet… some have been cast TOO good really….

Wow, I did quite a double take when I suddenly remembered where I heard her name before and the movie ‘Whale Rider.’ She gave a great performance in that film at a very young age and was nominated for an Oscar if I remember correctly. If this is true I think she would be an incredible choice.

The bulk of the Dorne storyline takes place in Arianne’s POV. I seriously doubt she’ll be cut regardless what we hear or don’t hear. I love KCH. I think she has a Nymeria vibe, but that’s me. I wouldn’t like it, but I could understand cutting Areo, or Darkstar. But without Arianne the Dornish storyline would be very difficult to put together. All in all wherever she lands, I think she would be good for the show, and if that twitter handle is any indication, then as a fan, she’s “Of the North” :-)

Someone posted a theory on Westeros that if Aegon was cut, Dorne might enter the fray not as his supporter but in their own right. If that was the case, Trystane would likely replace Aegon, at least as far as his plot relevance as the new contender for the Iron Throne was concerned.

If the heir apparant to the Dornish throne was to become a contender for the Iron Throne, however, the Dornish heir actually would have to be *male*, giving them an actual reason to cut Arianne and give her role to Ellaria and the Sand Snakes. If anybody would replace Quentyn later on, it probably wouldn’t be Trystane himself, but one of the Sand Snakes.

I still haven’t quite figured out whether replacing Aegon with Trystane would be a feasible option, but at least it would consolidate storylines, cut quite a bit of costs, and eliminate the whole problem of a second Targaryen suddenly entering the story out of nowwhere and stealing a lot of Daenerys’s thunder – which I suppose would be even more irritating on TV.

Concerning Keisha Castle-Hughes, I thought she was terrific in Whale Rider and would love to see her again.

All this talk about Arianne has me thinking. Isn’t she suppose to be stunning? Keisha Castle-Hughes is a beautiful young woman but I guess my minds-eye has fan-casted someone along the lines of Aishwarya Rai or Parminder Nagra. Then again, before Pedro was cast, every major Dorne POV was casted in my head as being more of Indian-Middle Eastern descent.
There are many gorgeous women on this show but head-canon Arianne just takes that to a whole new level. Shallow thoughts, for sure.
Having seen Keisha is only in “Whale Rider”, I can’t really comment on what kind of actress she has grown into but I do have faith that Nina and co. will cast the Sand Snakes beautifully.

Areo is confirmed to be IN. From memory, they’re looking for actors of African descent.

Regards Keisha – I approve of her being any Sand Snake. She’s hot, strong, and looks vaguely like Pedro (enough to be believable at any rate). And I am friends with a few Māori fans of GOT, who will be stoked.

I’d tip her being the role that the actor who played Alex on LOST was also auditioning for.

If you cut ‘Aegon’, you cut Varys’ entire plan. You also cut out a likely future king(at least for a time), who is more than likely not really a Targaryan, but a Blackfyre. Cutting him would signal that they really are cutting out half of the journey and just rushing towards dragons vs WW.

When I googled her name her ethnicity wasn’t mentioned and her name doesn’t sound particularly Maori. I guess some Maori people have adopted anglicised names? I have no problem with a Maori person being cast. Antman, there must be a problem on the site because I clicked to quote your statement but it has only been partially quoted.

Sarella was the most intriguing Sand Snake to me as well. Knowing that the maesters may have helped end the dragons the first time around and that the dragons will play a role in the endgame of the series in some form makes any special knowledge Alleras gained at the Citadel very interesting…

I do have hope that the change in Nymeria’s description in the casting leaks is partly based on D&D merging more than just some of Sarella’s physical traits into Nymeria’s character.

I think that’s the point of that theory, though. Cutting Aegon entirely would have huge ramifications for the progression of the overall plot unless Aegon is little more than a red herring, which I doubt. If Trystane were to replace Aegon, there still would be a new “likely future king”. The plot would still be significantly altered, sure, but at least there was someone who could more or less take over Aegon’s future actions, if not his background.

Varys’s plot would have to be altered, obviously, but I guess that’s something that could be achieved one way or the other.

As we both wrote above they could combine Arianne, Qyentyn and Aegon into Trystane. Eliminating Arianne as a rival for Dany and Aegon as a possible ally for Dorne, but making Trystane Dorne’s own threat for the Iron Throne either through marriage to Myrcella or by force. Trystane could go to Essos, not to court Dany, but to recruit the Golden Company. That could place him in Tyrion’s arc for a bit like Aegon was, but he would not end up dead by trying to take a dragon like Quentyn.

Of course they could cut the entire journey to Essos as well and have Varys serving Dorne instead of a hidden “Targaryen” heir to the throne. Thus eliminating the entire Aegon arc, the Quentyn arc, and the arc of Arianne going to seduce/ join Aegon as well. That would really streamline things! For good or bad I’m not sure….

I’m sure there are other ways, but they could keep a lot closer to the books as well and cast roles not in the leaked list. Let’s hope!

Yes, I guess what I found intriguing about the theory was that it actually provided a reason why they *had* to cut Arianne. Apart from that, there’s really nothing to do but wait and see, particularly since by now D&D have a huge advantage over us in knowing where the plot is actually moving to in the long run.

Personally, I just enjoy this kind of speculation about the adaptation process, trying to figure out what could be changed without changing too much.

For what it is worth, my personal pet theory right now is actually not Trystane replacing Aegon, but Rickon replacing Fake Arya.

Of course they could cut the entire journey to Essos as well and have Varys serving Dorne instead of a hidden “Targaryen” heir to the throne. Thus eliminating the entire Aegon arc, the Quentyn arc, and the arc of Arianne going to seduce/ join Aegon as well. That would really streamline things! For good or bad I’m not sure….

Let me fix that for you:

Of course they could cut the entire contents of AFFC and ADWD. That would really streamline things! For good or bad I’m not sure…

…

…

Seriously, if we go on the current casting calls and existing characters:

Cersei – relatively unchanged from AFFC/ADWD
Jaime – Dorne? Jetpacks?
Tyrion – journey will be completely changed as will any and all of the new characters on the way

I wouldn’t worry about that. If Oldtown is in the show, it will be in season 6. So there’s no reason to cast Sarella just yet. Now there IS a possibility that they’re cutting the entire Oldtown plot but I wouldn’t rush to think that since Sam’s scenes in season 4 seemed to set it up.

I like to think Aegon is in (in some form) because of Varys. D&D said that “what’s next” for Varys will “become more apparent in season 5”. I personally don’t think Varys /Illyrio being Trystane supporters will work. How would their backstory tie them to Dorne? Why would Varys directly sabotage things for Dany throughout the show? Would the Doran we know and love seriously raise an army and start a war, placing everyone at risk, without the Targaryen factor?

If this is the case, the show would be so different from the books it could hardly be called an adaption. In any case, I hope they just produce good television.

Great news! I was wondering what had happened to Keshia Castle-Hughes, because I hadn’t heard much about her after her role in “Star Wars”. The last bit of news about her for me was that she was Marry in “A Nativity Story”, but after that not much else.

I know that she is a mom and has a little girl, but seeing her picture above, she has changed soo much its eerie, since I best remember her from “Whale Rider”!!!!

Some of the comments here are baffling as to her looks…wow I mean what does it take to be considered “beautiful” these days for crying out loud?!?! By the way beauty is something highly subjective and will almost always depend on one’s view and understanding of what or who one finds attractive.

I agree that she seems absolutely suited to play Arianne!!! She would be perfect for the role! Not only is she beautiful, in my eyes at least, I find her appealing as well as attractive, because beauty has to be more than skin deep, charisma, character, are necessary ingredients to make a person truly beautiful all around!

I don’t want to see some plastic, doll-like actress be brought on the show so as to satisfy some visual cues that the fans demand. The books describe her physicality and her sensual presence, but she is not some over-sexualized blow-up doll, or a mindless pushover. Her appeal and enticing nature, is not only her physical beauty but her entire personna…at least that is how I think of Arianne Martel…

If Nina Gold and Robert Sterne, D&D and George ok her then that is fine with me. Arianne Martel, as every character that has been cast so far on the show, will most certainly have differences when compared to her book version…

We always do the same, freak out about some new cast member because he or she does not fit what we thought the characater would look like, only to then admit that we loved their performances etc…point in case Pedro Pascal…

I don’t want someone who is stunning, but has little else to offer. I want Keshia Castle-Hughes as Arianne because she can make me believe she is Arianne Martel not some actress playing a character by that name!

Dame of Mercia: When I googled her name her ethnicity wasn’t mentioned and her name doesn’t sound particularly Maori. I guess some Maori people have adopted anglicised names? I have no problem with a Maori person being cast.

That comment’s pretty daft. Heaps of Maoris have European surnames. I’m friends with a Maori guy with a Czech surname from his great-great-grandfather, but the other 15/16 of his ancestry is all Maori.

That’s what I theorize as well honestly.
I’m not overly worried even if it ends up cut though…

I have resigned myself to fairly dramatic changes for Seasons 6 and 7. In some ways I might prefer massive changes since it would mean less spoilers to the upcoming books.

The other more drastic cuts I’ve mentioned are just me theorizing how they could fit 4 large books into 3 short seasons…. The various and quite different routes they can take to still get the important players to the same approximate end points. The thing is though, I personally want them to keep more and cut less of the books! I can see ways both of those elements can be kept and other sub-plots can be cut. It just depends on which routes they want to take.

I do wonder if the Iron Islands, Aegon, and the Dorne arcs can all be added in the next season or so and still feel organic. It feels like two out of three is more likely to me and we know Dorne is in.

The only cut I think may actually happen is cutting Euron and Victarion. At least any active on screen roles for the characters. Daario supplied Dany a fleet and an unknown ally (maybe Varys or Illyrio) could supply her a Dragon Horn if the horn is even necessary…. They could kill Balon and have Yara take the Seastone Chair instead of some uncle the viewers have not even heard of yet.

The one area I’m most confused about is above The Neck in the North and Riverlands etc… I think Jon and Arya will be quite similar, but the rest of the arcs could be very different than the books. Other than that… No idea!

I for one think they would have done a LOT of things differently if they were planning to deviate so much. I don’t think season 4 would have been the same.

Another thing I’d like to stress is this: Tyrion needs supporting characters in his arc. He can’t just go alone until he meets Jorah, not do I think Jorah could be in league with Varys and Illyrio since they’d know better than to send him back to her after he was exiled. So Tyrion has to be taken captive by Jorah at some point after meeting Illyrio and Varys. Now, Illyrio and Varys are definitely sending him to Dany, but alone? No, I doubt it. Either way, we’d need to cast new characters that don’t appear on our current list. So I don’t think we should be worried yet.

There’ll definitely be more castings, those we’ve heard about were mainly for Dorne and King’s Landing. The thing is, though, that with the casting of such characters as Aegon and the Greyjoy uncles there’d be an awful lot of additions to established houses that would come literally out of nowhere for non-book readers. Even more so if you also count the probable return of Kevan Lannister, who hasn’t really been established all that well in prior seasons either. I’m just not sure whether that would make for particularly good or relatable television.

Darquemode: They could kill Balon and have Yara take the Seastone Chair instead of some uncle the viewers have not even heard of yet.

Which in a way might make up for the cutting of Arianne in terms of empowered female characters.

On an unrelated note, my comments always seem to disappear in moderation limbo for hours before finally appearing on the page, making conversation really difficult. What’s up with that?

I think they possibly did set up limiting the role of the Greyjoys when they had Daario supply a fleet of 93 ships to Dany.

Totally agree on Tyrion needing supporting cast around him.

I think he will spend 2 or 3 episodes at Illyrio’s and they could keep the Young Griff arc in of course… I guess they could have Jorah in Illyrio’s employment and use him to attempt to transport Tyrion to Volantis(?) in place of Griff and company… or Jorah could be part of a sellsword company and capture Tyrion somewhere other than Selhorys without the sea voyage…..

Since they’re insisting on seven seasons I also think (F)Aegon/Blackfyre conspirancy #121234 will be cut and with it very likely Arianne too. That would be a pretty big book spoiler though, but it was bound to happen.

Chickenduck: That comment’s pretty daft.Heaps of Maoris have European surnames.I’m friends with a Maori guy with a Czech surname from his great-great-grandfather, but the other 15/16 of his ancestry is all Maori.

Keisha has a Maori mum, white Aussie dad.She identifies as Maori.

You are very acid on this fine July morning. The comments on this site have become more rancid of late. Are you based in the Southern Hemisphere (where it’s winter now I guess)? I’ll admit I’m not an expert on all things concerning New Zealand. I have met people from Australia and New Zealand who have come to the UK to work but I think they have nearly all been of European descent. On IDBM all I could see was that she was an Australian-born New Zealander and that there was mention of some of her films. I’m not saying that who has Maori blood to have a name like Kiri Ta Kanawa. I concede that a person has two parents and generally it is the Dad’s surname that is adopted. Also names have become more international as the world has become more of a “global” village (e.g. Jennifer Lopez who I believe is American but of Hispanic descent has a Cornish first name). I did think the trend to “anglicise” names for actors was dying out (i.e. the late John Wayne’s real first name was Marian because his family were descended from a part of Europe where such a name was a male name but younger actors seem more likely to keep their real names if their families names were Eastern European or whatever). I think the Maori names are more interesting sounding than European ones though (probably because European is what I am accustomed to). Though come to think of it, two New Zealanders that had Maori first names were I think wholly of European descent (the actress Nyree-Dawn Porter and the writer Ngaio Marsh [strictly speaking Ms Marsh was Edith Ngaio Marsh]). But could you not have made your point without being vitriolic?

No vitriol meant, apologies if offence caused. But the comment stands, it’s very common for Maoris to have European surnames. Also, when they do, it’s actually not usually because they’ve Anglicised it, more often it’s because their male line is European origin.

Her parents were never married. Her Maori mother’s surname was Hughes. Her father’s surname was Castle.

For the record, I’m Australian but also spent some of my childhood in NZ. Also, there are nowadays a lot of Maoris living in Australia.

My guess, and for now I’ll eliminate doubt that the Griffs are cut:1- Tyrion and Varys arrive at Illyrio’s place (Tyrion is grumpy of course) and have the famous dinner scene + a scene with just Illyrio and Varys talking about future plans (Tyrion overhearing?). It’s necessary IMO to up the anti with Varys being the mastermind of this plot.
2- Varys and Tyrion leave Illyrio and ride out to the Rhoyne where they meet the Griffs on the Shy Maid.
3-5 the travels of the Shy Maid, including Tyrion being suspicious about Young Griff, Griff and Tyrion locking horns, and climaxing with the Sorrows and the stone men where Aegon is revealed. That’s would last two or three episodes.
6- Tyrion convinces Aegon to head to Westeros without Dany, they reach Volantis and he gets taken captive by Jorah.
7- Jorah and Tyrion take a ship to Meereen, and some of that relationship gets fleshed out. Aegon meets with the Golden Company and they decide to head off to Westeros. Tyrion and Jorah get abducted by slavers,
8- Tyrion and Jorah arrive at Meereen and are sold on the auction block to Yezzan. Some Tyrion-Jorah sympathy. Tyrion convinces Yezzan to give him an audience with Dany since he’s good entertainment and decides to include Jorah too (because he sees the man is a depressed shell).
9- to their surprise, Tyrion and Jorah end up as entertainment in the Daznak Pit and are set to fight a lion, Yezzan duped them. Jorah saves Tyrion. Dany calls it off since she sees they’re fighting against their will (and that was not part of her feel to reopen the pits), Missadei gets poisoned by the locusts, Drogon shows up and wrecks havoc, Dany rides away.
10- Tyrion and Jorah return to Yezzan and it is clear within the Yunkai camp that a battle might take place. Tyrion starts manipulating Yezzan into moving over to Dany’s side (although that might be early season 6 material). Meanwhile, Aegon, JonCon and Varys are on a ship heading to Westeros. Maybe they arrive? Anyway, some set up for the future Aegon arc.

No vitriol meant, apologies if offence caused.But the comment stands, it’s very common for Maoris to have European surnames.Also, when they do, it’s actually not usually because they’ve Anglicised it, more often it’s because their male line is European origin.

Her parents were never married.Her Maori mother’s surname was Hughes.Her father’s surname was Castle.

For the record, I’m Australian but also spent some of my childhood in NZ.Also, there are nowadays a lot of Maoris living in Australia.

But it’s hardly a compliment to call someone, or their words “daft”, is it? I will concede you have greater knowledge on how names pan out in Australia and New Zealand and accept your word that the statement was not meant nastily.

If I was in charge of casting, I would not reveal Young Griff to the public. I would keep it quiet since it would take away the fun on who he is. Assuming we believe who he truly is. Can’t have articles of that shit webbing around with spoilers.

If he’s described as “Young Griff- a boy who follows Tyrion in his travels” there would hardly be any spoilers to mine. But it’s possible the show will reveal the Griffs right off the bat like they did with Barristan, so they might not ever be called Griff in the show.

The only thing I’m pretty certain of for next season is that Jaime failing to return Mycella (with her being injured or killed optional)will lead to the fall out between him and Cersei.
I hope people are worrying for nothing as so far the show hasn’t missed out any one of the major characters. At the moment I’m assuming Arianne, Euron, Victarion and Young Griff are all in. They killed a massive amount of characters off last season so there is more screen time and wages to feature all the characters. I just hope they don’t get silly and move away from the book storylines for the sake of it.

THIS^^
I refuse to believe that Arianne is cut. I might believe that she has been merged with one of the Sand Snakes, but her position as Dorne’s heir seems vital to the story. She can be a Sand Snake and still be Doran’s daughter.

Also, don’t forget the released WoW Arianne chapter that prominently features little Elia. Ms. Hughes could be an aged-up and/or combined version of this character as well.

With 8 Sand Snake personas, jet-packed Ellaria and Arianne to work with, I’m sure that BCog and D&D are going to do A LOT of combining. We’ll just have to wait and see. I’m hoping Comic-Con will clear some of this up.

As for the Maori name thing: Chickenduck, you need to cut Old Worlders some slack. Those of us from melting pot countries like Australia and the U.S. are used to such things. I am a true American mutt: Irish, English, Belgian and Italian with a Polish and Austrian husband, so a Polish last name, and I have been mistaken for both Greek and Hispanic at various times in my life. It is all in how one perceives the world. So, its all good, Dame! Peace, people.

THIS^^
I refuse to believe that Arianne is cut. I might believe that she has been merged with one of the Sand Snakes, but her position as Dorne’s heir seems vital to the story. She can be a Sand Snake and still be Doran’s daughter.

Also, don’t forget the released WoW Arianne chapter that prominently features little Elia. Ms. Hughes could be an aged-up and/or combined version of this character as well.

With 8 Sand Snake personas, jet-packed Ellaria and Arianne to work with, I’m sure that BCog and D&D are going to do A LOT of combining. We’ll just have to wait and see. I’m hoping Comic-Con will clear some of this up.

As for the Maori name thing: Chickenduck, you need to cut Old Worlders some slack. Those of us from melting pot countries like Australia and the U.S. are used to such things. I am a true American mutt: Irish, English, Belgian and Italian with a Polish and Austrian husband, so a Polish last name, and I have been mistaken for both Greek and Hispanic at various times in my life. It is all in how one perceives the world. So, its all good, Dame! Peace, people.

Thanks for the kind comments Ashara. Actually I am half-Irish (both my grand-dads were Irish but neither of my grandmas) and I think I have inherited the characteristic that (some) Irish people (always dangerous to make blanket statements) have of flaring up swiftly but I calm down pretty quickly too. I guess as “dissing” comments go, “daft” is at the mild end of the spectrum. When I first saw it I was not best pleased by Chickenduck’s comment but maybe by letting it get to me I was in danger of being charmless myself. I think I was also influenced by the way some caustic and venomous comments have crept on to site recently (to be fair the comments with real spleen are not be laid {lain??} at Chickenduck’s door). Chickenduck did have the grace to say it wasn’t meant nastily and I usually don’t take exception to his/her comments. The UK is fairly cosmopolitan these days. In my neck of the woods there has been a Polish community dating from the end of the second world war – either displaced persons or people who fought with the free Poles, or more recently their descendants.

I am almost embarrassed to say that I found Arianne to be confusing in the books. I had trouble figuring out just who she was. I imagine keeping the storyline connected to Oberyn and Ellaria will be much easier to follow in the TV version. I also welcome an expanded role for Indra Varma because she is a very good actress and I want to see more. If she takes on Ariannes role it would make a good transition from Kings Landing to Dorne I think.
I know, blasphemy ;)

This girl has to be Tyene. She is perfect if it is true that they are making Tyene Ellaria and Oberyn’s daughter. She has the looks and the age to make it believable.

Even though I love all the new characters we didn’t hear a word about yet specially Euron and Vic but also Arianne and the Griffs it might be reasonable to cut them so as not to slow things down with so many characters as it happenes in Feast and Dance.

Sorry to say this but if Arianne is cut, then so are the Griffs…the sand snakes can’t marry a King and Dorne supporting Aegon without something in return would make no sense

Again I think this could be solved by making her the product of a liasion between Doran Martell and Ellaria. She’d be a Sandsnake (in the books she always says they’re like sisters to her even if not related anyway) and still an heir to Dorne. Not sure why they’d lose a main POV character for the sake of three characters who don’t really do anything in the books!

Rhaegar:
This girl has to be Tyene. She is perfect if it is true that they are making Tyene Ellaria and Oberyn’s daughter. She has the looks and the age to make it believable.

Even though I love all the new characters we didn’t hear a word about yet specially Euron and Vic but also Arianne and the Griffs it might be reasonable to cut them so as not to slow things down with so many characters as it happenes in Feast and Dance.

Sorry to say this but if Arianne is cut, then so are the Griffs…the sand snakes can’t marry a King and Dorne supporting Aegon without something in return would make no sense

I’m not sure why there needs to be that many cuts. They are all pretty important to the book storyline and I’d rather see their storylines than some made up stuff to fill gaps.

Eh. A lot of it I see as a distraction from the main storyline. It works when it comes to reading the books but not watching a show that last an hour an episode, that’s just the reality of things. The showrunners are just trimming to save time and money for an already expensive, huge cast of. Hectic show.

I’m not sure that much needs to be cut either, but the dynamic could still be similar if they cut Arianne and Aegon. Doran would still have a way to the Iron Throne through marriage… Instead of wanting to marry a female heir to a Targaryen male, Doran would want to marry Trsytane to a female ruler… Myrcella if the Lannisters stay in power, Targaryen if Dany claims the Iron Throne.

I don’t necessarily care for the idea personally, but it would keep Doran and Dorne in the Game…. All 100% speculation that may prove meaningless with one or two new casting rumors! XD

I refuse to believe that Arianne is cut. I might believe that she has been merged with one of the Sand Snakes, but her position as Dorne’s heir seems vital to the story. She can be a Sand Snake and still be Doran’s daughter.

Yes, vital to the story. Eliminating Arianne changes the Dornish storyline and I don’t understand why it would be done. Its difficult to eliminate POV characters like Arianne and Victarion because they carry much of the narrative weight of their families’ stories. Quentyn and Aeron, on the other hand, can probably be cut.

Hopefully, much of this speculation will be put to rest in a few weeks with casting announcements at Comic-Con. Has WiC figured out how they will cover the panel?

I think that’s exactly D&D’s thought process. And, no offense, but I hate it! It cuts Arianne’s character and the whole female equality theme that it carries as well as changing Ellaria completely! In the books, Ellaria becomes completely against any kind of war/action after Oberyn’s death (almost a pacifist) but in the show taking over Arianne’s role changed her into just another vengeful Dornish woman (as if the Sand Snakes weren’t enough). To me, this change sees the cutting of two characters from the show: Arianne (who is literally cut) and Ellaria (who becomes a completely different and in my opinion unnecessary character).

Far be it from me to judge this change a failure before I see it, but what I’m certain of is that it’s definitely not a part in the books that needed changing. It was nearly perfect. Arianne became an instant favorite to me, and her relationship with Doran is some of the more touching things in the Dornish arc from the books.

To lose that is a shame, especially if it comes with the utter abolishing of Ellaria’s book character. But again, we’ll have to wait and see exactly how they handle it. It’s a bit up in the air at the moment.

I still believe Griff,Young Griff, and Arianne are in. It is the Greyjoys who I believe will be cut, with the possible exception of Euron. It seems like every casting season people worry about certain characters not being included, and they almost always are, especially the main ones.

This is different. There’s overwhelming evidence that Arianne is cut.
That said, there is no evidence that the Girffs or Euron are cut. I think they’ll make it. Why else namedrop the Golden Company twice during season 4? And why include the Balon leech?

True, Golden Company and Balon leech will mean something. But lets not forget that Tyrion proposed to marry Myrcella to the youngest son of Doran Martell, they planned for Trystane to have some siblings. Its not going to be just him by himself.

What overwhelming evidence? A partial casting call sheet? That is it. And don’t you think that if the Griffs are included, that Arianne would be too? Is ‘Aegon’ going to marry Trystane? Moreover, is Trystane going to be Doran’s only child? I don’t pretend to know what D&D have planned. They may not care about the journey anymore, now that they are so close to the end. But it seems to me, it is a waste to include Dorne if they are going to alter it so much. Doran is not fool enough to try and take the throne without allies(Dany and her dragons or ‘Aegon’ and the Golden Company), and unless Dany accepts Trystane/Quentyn’s proposal, then the only option for them is ‘Aegon’ and The Golden Company. Crowning Myrcella without allies or support is not Doran’s M.O., and it would be a disservice to his character to have him hatch such a foolish plan.

[…] and Tyene should be happening anytime now, as well as Prince Doran. It was reported yesterday by WIC (Winter Is Coming) that Oscar nominee Keisha Castle-Hughes (who was the little girl in Whale […]

The auditions show that every Dornishman and his mother will be involved in the Myrcella plot (Ellaria at least brings up the idea, Trystane lures Myrcella and the Sand Snakes actively plot it and will probably help carrying out the coop)- this makes Arianne seem obsolete since they’re just handing off her role to other characters. So that’s one. Two is GRRM listing the Dornish characters he expects to see in the show going forward: he specifically mentioned Doran, Areo and the Sand Snakes but didn’t mention Arianne (or Quentyn, for that matter). Three is her missing from the casting sheet which included every other major and semi-major Dornish casting. Four is Indira Varma being cast as Ellaria- such a big name deserves more than a peripheral role like the one in the books so it seems like it’ll be expanded, perhaps to a POV degree.

Agree. It is a waste to include Dorne if it is to be altered so much. It removes Doran as the main player/plotter in Dorne and, instead, focuses on Oberyn’s daughters and their desire for vengeance. That may satisfy viewers in the short-term but it undermines the long game that Doran has been playing. Take that away and you have the remaining characters hell-bent on Oberyn’s style for vengeance. The contrast between Oberyn and Doran is lost. Also, what happens to Aegon? He isn’t going to marry a Sand Snake. Does Trystane even have a line of dialogue in the books? Why would this character be elevated to be one of the main players in Dorne?

I’m not saying that it isn’t possible for D&D to eliminate Arianne. None of us know anything for certain right now. I just believe that it will be a poor narrative choice.

You could say the same of a lot of the Dorne stuff to be honest.It’s just people’s preferences as to which characters they enjoy more. Personally I think Euron and Victarion are needed as so far the Iron Islanders look very weak when they’re meant to be badasses. The two brotehrs would remedy that.
I still refuse to believe they’ve cut key characters like Arianne, Euron, Victarion and Aegon yet included relatively pointless characters like Maggy the Frog, The Sand Snakes, Varymry Sixskins and Areo Hotah.

Yeah but the presence of Maggy the Frog or Areo Hotah have absolutely nothing to do with Victarion or Euron Greyjoy. It’s a false equivalency. They’re from completely different storylines and serve a different function.
The Sand Snakes are clearly driving the Dornish plot from the audition asides from we’ve seen, and from the casting call description, Hotah is serving as Doran’s right hand man, so he’ll be the guy Doran talks to, I would guess.

My point remains. If these are minor characters who are not going to be major players then there are spots for bigger characters left. Of those announced so far, in that leaked casting list, only Doran, I would say, is a key character. I can see the point of having the Sand Snakes take over as Ariannes co-conspirators that’s just sensible streamlining) but taking over her role entirely seems a bit of a pointless change.
I’d argue the Greyjoys are just as important the Martells in the story so far. They act as an interesting X Factor who don’t really take sides with anyone. Would be a shame if they took out two of the more unique characters in Westeros who if cast right would have the same “cool character” effect that Pedro Pascal had with the Red Viper.
If we look at how many major characters they killed off last season (Joffrey, Tywin, Shae, Ygritte, The Hound*, Oberon, The Mountain*, and Jojen) as well as the massive amount of regular/recurring characters ( Grenn, Pyp, Lisa Tulley, The Magnar, Locke, Tanner, Rast, Rorge, Biter, Dontos)then there’s plenty of scope for introducing a decent amount of new characters that would translate to the amount of screen time they had.
I guess we’ll have to wait until the casting news comes out. Until then I and I think we all live in hope.

You could say the same of a lot of the Dorne stuff to be honest.It’s just people’s preferences as to which characters they enjoy more. Personally I think Euron and Victarion are needed as so far the Iron Islanders look very weak when they’re meant to be badasses. The two brotehrs would remedy that.I still refuse to believe they’ve cut key characters like Arianne, Euron, Victarion and Aegon yet included relatively pointless characters like Maggy the Frog, The Sand Snakes, Varymry Sixskins and Areo Hotah.

Honestly I always felt Dorne was a huge part of the story. Starting with the Elia’s incident which I believe affected the whole kingdom and is one of the stories we get reminded over and over as the series goes on with different characters. If Young Griff turns out to be the real deal then Dorne/Martells/Sands are major players.

The Greyjoys are just there to me. They are just as relevant as The Mountain Clan. Nothing special besides constantly getting defeated by their stupidity. Whenever I read about them (besides Theon) I’m always like, “Cool Story George” onto the main point of the story thanks.

Completely agree – excellent post. As far as Dorne, I hope that appearances are wrong and the Sand Snakes will not be driving the Dorne story. I understand the need to trim characters but, if the speculation is true, then the wrong characters have been cut.

As far as the Greyjoy brothers, it would be a misstep to leave them out. With the right casting, they could be incredible on screen.

I think your math’s off by a bit. Sure we lost major characters such as Joffrey, Tywin, Oberyn, and the Hound. But none of these character loses actually resulted in a reduction of overall storylines. The Hound was part of Arya’s storyline and her storyline will continue with or without him. Joffrey, Tywin, and Oberyn were all part of King’s Landing, and King’s Landing will continue to be in the show. To be able to include, let’s say the Greyjoys uncles, in any significant manner, there would have to be an opening in terms of storylines.

Sure, King’s Landing will be smaller in scope next season, but given what still has to happen there if they want to end Cersei’s story arc in the Walk of Punishment, it would still have to be in next to every episode. The only storylines that are completely gone as independent arcs are Stannis and the Wildlings, but they were only featured in four and three episodes respectively last season before the Battle for the Wall . So what little room has opened up, will already be taken up by Tyrion’s travels, possibly Sam, and of course Dorne. Dorne will be huge, as from what we’ve heard it will feature at least *ten* characters (Doran, Areo, Trystane, Myrcella, Ellaria, Obara, Nymeria, Tyene, Jaime, Bronn). For comparison, Stannis’s storyline when first introduced in season 2 featured a grand total of six characters (Stannis, Davos, Melisandre, Matthos, Cressen, Salladhor). So, once again, even if we did lose characters last season, there should still be little room for any further added plotlines of major significance.

Yeah, people said that on the thread. My mistake. But I still think they might have aimed for a darker skinned actress originally (otherwise they’d be a bit more flexible in her description in the casting sheet). Maybe her audition was just really good and they thought “screw it”.

But there’s also the fact that she looks like both Oberyn and Ellaria, she’d be a perfect show-Tyene. In the end it doesn’t really matter- she looks great, she’s a great actress, she can play any Sand Snake and do it well.

As far as cutting Arianne in favor of the Sand Snakes is concerned, there’s simply no telling whether this is the “wrong” decision as from now on none of us have any idea where the story’s actually heading. The only people who could give an educated guess on the matter are GRRM, D&D, and possibly Martin’s editor. And if Arianne is cut, at least two of those people obviously thought it was the “right” choice to make. I doubt they’re doing it just to mess with the source material.

One thing that might work in favor of the Sand Snakes is that as bastards they could be used for almost any role that would have to be filled in connection with Dorne in future seasons, be it on the Small Council, with the High Sparrow, at Oldtown, or even travelling to Meereen in Quentyn’s place, whereas Arianne as the heir apparent to Dorne would probably be more restricted in what roles she could realistically take up.

I think you’re maybe looking at it from the wrong perspective….
The inclusion of Maggy the Frog and Areo Hotah is not about them being important specifically, it’s about them playing a role in important character’s scenes or stories. Yes, neither may shape the endgame of the series, but Cersei and Doran are power players, and they will need supporting characters around them in their scenes.

Without knowing the final parts Euron and Victarion play I can only make assumptions, but if they themselves do not play a major role in the endgame they may not be as necessary as introducing new roles in already established arcs. To me it felt like Euron and Victarion were mostly important for two things: delivering Dany a fleet of ships and delivering the Dragon Horn. The Greyjoys themselves are not as important as the items they supply to others. If that is the case, as it seems to me, then they can more easily be replaced and have their tasks given to already established characters.

As far as Dorne goes, I felt that Doran was placing the Sand Snakes and Arianne into almost every location important to the story. That made me think Dorne and those characters are going to be key in the last 2 or 3 books personally…

That said, I would like it if the Greyjoys appear and we got to see their ruthlessness. Two or three scenes in their arcs are almost tailor made for TV!! Euron would add a cool, dark and mysterious character to the show and Victarion could bring a second fleet of ships and Dragonbinder to Dany (or Tyrion).

I’m just not sure if establishing two new characters and arcs is needed to accomplish those tasks. Especially since Daario already has given Dany a fleet.
*Shrug*

–GRRM saying in an off-the-cuff comment that he expects we will see “Doran, Areo and the Sand Snakes.” Hardly a full cast list there.

–The partial casting list that Fury got in that post a month-plus ago. Also not definitive.

–A leaked audition tape that’s really super-difficult to figure out given we don’t know who the unnamed speaker is.

Overall if you weigh the odds based on what we know, you’d have to probably put it at maybe 60% against, 40% for right now. But so little of the information we have is definitive.

And even a grand Season 5 “cast video” at the Comic-Con wouldn’t settle matters either. The Season 3 video had: the Blackfish, Missandei, Orell, Jojen & Meera Reed, Shireen Baratheon, Beric Dondarrion, Thoros, and the Queen of Thorns.

No Edmure Tully, no Selyse Baratheon, no Tormund Giantsbane, to name a couple. No Mance, but we all knew he was coming by then anyway given how often he’d been mentioned. They left out Ramsay, but that was intentional, of course.

I know some of this is me hoping she’s in, and really, a character of her import hasn’t yet been eliminated from the show, so there’s that, too. Just that the evidence we have is still pretty thin. I agree that if you had to lay odds, you weigh it against right now, but nothing has yet been said.

Arianne will be combined into a Sandsnake, BUT unlike in the book, she will be the only legitimate child of Oberyn (in this universe Oberyn had a wife who he was forced to marry when young and then she died in childbirth – the other two kids are with Ellaria and he vowed at thsi point that he’d never marry again). So she won’t be the heir to Dorne but she will be a princess with legitimate blood and a perfect marraige prospect for Aegon (honestly a bit better than Arianne since her being heir complicates the match, if anything).

Quentyn is still out looking for Dany and will ultimately be BBQ, and Trystane is the youngest child. Only Doran knows about the Quentyn plot just like in the books. Trystane is encouraged by the Sandsnakes to put Myrcella on the throne since by Dornish inheritance she deserves to be queen, and Trystane has ambitions to be King (Quentyn is the heir, so Trystane stands to inherit nothing without Myrcella’s claim).

Later, once Aegon makes himself known, Arianne-snake will be sent to treat with him and offer herself as a suitable match and the support of the Dornish army to boot (since she’s the only Dornish princess in existance, she would make a suitable bride).

It’s interesting, IMO, because it unwittingly pits all three of the Dornish kids against each other in the end – each of them supports a different claimant to the throne without knowledge of the others. Also, I personally don’t like Doran and like Oberyn in the show, so I would be OK with “Arianne” being Oberyn’s daughter instead.

Point taken, but doesn’t that mean there’s place for more key roles if pretty much all the announcements so far have been of minor characters (with the exception of Doran). I think they need to do something with regard to the Greyjoys because of the leech thing and also what is Yara going to do for this season? It’s not as if the Kingsmoot and a few scenes to establish Euron and Victarion are going to massively eat into screentime for the otehr stories especially as we lost so many character last season.
If the Greyjoys are cut then it’s going to be a massive spoiler for the books in that no one will have any interest in what they are doing (very bad idea seeing as Vic is a POV character!).Also the Iron born seem to be playing a large role in the siege of Mereen which would be an awesome scene to see them storm the beaches to come to save the day..would also show why the Ironborn have this fearsome repuation that has yet to be justified.
On the ship front, who knows what could happen to that fleet? Maybe the pale mare storyline may come into effect and the ships have to be burnt to stop it spreading thus emphasising Danys need for ships more and also symbolic of her burning her means of getting to Westeros due to a problem she’s encountered whilst trying to rule Mereen. Maybe the fleet gets taken or destroyed by the invaders in the siege of Mereen?. All I know is if Daario ( the most annoying character in the book and show) stops the introduction of two great characters then I’m gonna be pissed! :P

Joe Frost: Point taken, but doesn’t that mean there’s place for more key roles if pretty much all the announcements so far have been of minor characters (with the exception of Doran). I think they need to do something with regard to the Greyjoys because of the leech thing and also what is Yara going to do for this season? It’s not as if the Kingsmoot and a few scenes to establish Euron and Victarion are going to massively eat into screentime for the otehr stories especially as we lost so many character last season.
If the Greyjoys are cut then it’s going to be a massive spoiler for the books in that no one will have any interest in what they are doing (very bad idea seeing as Vic is a POV character!).

If you think about it, though, if the Battle of Meereen is in Season 6 – and really, Dany and Tyrion have a strong enough arc in Season 5 with a *lot* of material – then you could conceivably delay the Greyjoys until Season 6. You’d have to cram a lot into the first episode, and a lot of time-travel to get Vic into Slaver’s Bay by say Ep 3 or so, but you could do that.

jentario: I think even Fury shares my opinion that she was cut based on the evidence

Well, she said she was worried, and has been worried. But that’s all we’ve got.

I am not so obsessed with it. I’m just spending my free time on WIC (which I would do anyway) trying to keep peoples’ hopes down because I know a shitstorm will happen if/when it’s officially announced. And in my opinion, the evidence IS pretty disturbing though I do admit you guys bring up good points. I still think Arianne is cut mostly because of that audition tape.

And you shouldn’t be concerned over my health. This casting is the most recent piece of news and I’m just taking part in the discussion.

Re: Scene Time and New Roles
Sometimes I think it would just be easier to add more characters… Screw the audience if they cannot keep everyone straight! If I were in charge the cast would be even larger than it already is… significantly! XD

I hope the majority of the arcs and sub-plots make the show, but I expect at a minimum streamlining, if not dramatic cuts So much material and so little time… only 30 episodes remain!

Re: Book Spoilers
For me, I will still be interested in events in the books even if they do not make the TV series. I can’t speak for others, but at least half of my love of ASOIAF is not about how the story ends…. It’s the enjoyment of reading about the world GRRM created. Admittedly I am one of the minority that enjoyed AFFC and ADWD quite a lot.

Re: The Fleet
Anything is possible… I just find it odd that they had Daario supply a fleet of 93 ships. Why that number? Why a fleet at all if another fleet will arrive later?

Even if I do find show-Daaro a little annoying (far less now than with Ed Skrein) I would not miss Victarion or Euron personally (Euron maybe a little). I preferred the Dorne chapters to the Ironborn by far.

Plus, I don’t see it as losing cool characters to secondary roles or annoying roles, I see it as adapting the story to a more streamlined version. Sometimes they may need to cut cool parts of the books to make a more cohesive linear narrative. It just needs to be done.

And you shouldn’t be concerned over my health. This casting is the most recent piece of news and I’m just taking part in the discussion.

I did not want to seem snarky man! I was bit concerned really, because you shouldn’t worry about it that much..

No need to put people’s hopes down either, that’s like putting the band-aid before the injury!! Not a good way to face life in general, much better to always try to be positive! Plenty of time to worry when/if she’s cut ;)

I’ve got faith at the moment as they’ve not missed anything major out yet. Would seem silly to start cutting things when GRRM hasn’t even finished Winds of Winter yet! Kind of like making a rod for your own back! Hope D&D realise that why it’s been successful so far is because they’re staying so true to the books so don’t tamper with that formula! I hink people sometimes try and dumb things down for an audience when the audience is quite capable of getting it! I mean the plot so far has been pretty intricate (compared to your average show) and it’s still raking in the viewing figures so people are evidently enjoying something that gets their grey matter working.
I think the thing with Feast is that it was a building book after so much closure and the end of a number of arcs in SoS. Like you I enjoyed learning more about the new characters and the world in general and if done correctly I’m sure the show audience will too.
The ships thing is a puzzler. I can see the Mereenese navy (like a number of Mereenese) turning on Danarys so that may be reason for the Ironborn turning up. Not sure what Dany is gonna do next season and I’m all for them spicing up her story a bit as the book chapters she had started to drag. I think the image of a plague stricken poplace, revolt, murder in the streets, chained up dragons and a burnt/destroyed/traitorous fleet might all combine to finally convince her that occupying a forein country with different customs is untennable ( art reflecting on life..hello Iraq/Afghanistan!) and the Ironborn fleet will be seen as her way to finally make a move on Westeros.

It’s personal preference but I found them both really interesting characters. Much more than any of the Dornish (barring Doran and Arianne). I’m all for streamlining ( we don’t really need Moqurro and a detailed account of the journey). Just Balon dying (oppurtunity to introduce Euron?), Kingsmoot, A few scenes to build Euron and Victarion, their rivalry and explain Yara going back to the North and then leave it until the last couple of episodes to have Vic turn up at teh Siege of Mereen (if they do it this season).
All for streamlining. Not for cutting big chunks. If you chop a swimmmer’s leg off it may make them more streamlined but their performance is gonna suffer!

Re: The Fleet
Anything is possible… I just find it odd that they had Daario supply a fleet of 93 ships. Why that number? Why a fleet at all if another fleet will arrive later?

Yes, this is odd. I can’t come up with plausible explanation for why a Greyjoy would arrive with more ships. Perhaps it is more important for him to arrive with the dragonhorn. Alternatively, do we need to have Euron raiding in The Reach?

I’m all for streamlining ( we don’t really need Moqurro and a detailed account of the journey). Just Balon dying (oppurtunity to introduce Euron?), Kingsmoot, A few scenes to build Euron and Victarion, their rivalry and explain Yara going back to the North and then leave it until the last couple of episodes to have Vic turn up at teh Siege of Mereen (if they do it this season).All for streamlining. Not for cutting big chunks.

Agree. The endless sea and land journeys of the last two books have to be streamlined. However, streamlining should not sacrifice plot. I can’t imagine that we will not see Yara return home to find Daddy dead and Uncle Euron throwing around his weight. What happens after that is anyone’s guess. If the Euron and Victarion are eliminated, then the Greyjoy storyline has little purpose beyond Theon.

mariamb: Yes, this is odd. I can’t come up with plausible explanation for why a Greyjoy would arrive with more ships. Perhaps it is more important for him to arrive with the dragonhorn. Alternatively, do we need to have Euron raiding in The Reach?

Agree. The endless sea and land journeys of the last two books have to be streamlined. However, streamlining should not sacrifice plot. I can’t imagine that we will not see Yara return home to find Daddy dead and Uncle Euron throwing around his weight. What happens after that is anyone’s guess. If the Euron and Victarion are eliminated, then the Greyjoy storyline has little purpose beyond Theon.

I think Yara needs to go back for the Kingsmoot as when she loses it gives her reason to have to leave and head back to Deepwood Motte where she encounters Stannis and Theon. The Ironborn stories can be simplified and streamlined pretty easily. I see no need for them to be cut.

I am not advocating for either Euron or Victarion to be cut. I want to see them and the Kingsmoot. Yes, their story lines can be streamlined. With a fleet already in Meereen, there will need to be another purpose for Victarion travels and the dragonhorn works. They need to give purpose to Euron as well since raiding The Reach may be more than is necessary for the show.

I would like to see Jason Isaacs as Euron but he seems to be committed to other projects.

I think Vic still has a good purpose for going as he is going to propose to Dany, also we don’t know whats going to happen to that fleet and the Ironborn play an important role at the siege of Mereen.
I’d have Euron, be directly responsible for killing Balon. He’s pretty shady anyway so would really set the tone for his character. Not entirely sure he really needs to do much after the Kingsmoot as his character is set up as it should be and other character could mention in passing that the Reach is being raided.

Personally, I’d got for Solomon Kane mode James Purefoy for Euron and Ray Stevenson for Victarion. They’d have great chemistry and really bring the two new characters to life. Don’t let me down Nina!

Cutting Aegon entirely would have huge ramifications for the progression of the overall plot unless Aegon is little more than a red herring, which I doubt.

Maybe I’m in the minority but I think he is at best a plot device that ends up strengthening Dany’s claim to and/or motivation to conquer Westeros or at worst he’s simply a red herring. In the books I think he will be the catalyst that prompts Dany to finally go home to Westeros to stake her claim as the only living Targaryan (meaning she will prove in some fashion that he is not).

If I’m correct then cutting Aegon will not have as much of an impact as many people are suggesting. There are plenty of good reasons to push Dany to return to Westeros, not the least of which will be the falling of the Wall to the WWW, which many readers believe will be occurring very soon…probably in TWOW.

So as you’ve noticed they have far more storylines than they can handle in the 10 eps per season plan, so I see no reason why Aegon can’t be cut (again, IF my guess about his future importance is correct). Likewise with Arianne. While I enjoyed her character in the books, it’s not clear to me what her purpose will be. It’s clear in the books that her story might merge with Aegon via marriage. Ergo, if Aegon can be cut, so can Arianne

Likewise, Euron and Victarion…their main purpose appears to be another obstacle for Dany to overcome and to provide ship’s for the crossing. But in the show, they’ve already shown that Daario is stealing ships for her…so they have a way to replace the ship angle and as far as obstacles, Dany has had and will have plenty of other things to overcome. As far as Yara is concerned, her story could work without those two…..She is significantly different than Asha in the books so I don’t think we can project what might happen to her without that guidance.

What annoys me the most about all this is that too many people are sooooo sure that Aegon, Arianne, Euron and/or Victarion are important to the endgame and those fans aren’t taking into account the sheer impossibility of including that many story lines in the three seasons they have left. I’m all for an accurate adaptation, as possible, but I think D&D understand what is possible and what isn’t better than the average armchair quarterback. In the end, if they can include them, continue to put out the best show on TV and prove me wrong, I’ll be delighted.

One thing though…cutting Aegon would present a problem in that the prohecy often quoted in the books and in Dany’s dreams is very clear about the fact that the Targaryen dragon always has three heads (that is their House sigil). Just as Aegon the Conqueror invaded Westeros with his two sisters, so will Dany…she will have to find her other two heads…She is clearly one, Aegon, if proven to be her nephew and the surviving son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Elia Martel (Oberyn’s sister), would be the second, though perhaps Tyrion could just as well fulfil that role, in that he is one of the few people that has any detailed knowledge of the history of dragons…and of course…

The third head could be Jon Snow, who, I think its becoming more and more obvious, is himself half-Targaryen and half-Stark, given the fact that there are quite a few indications that he is the son of Rhaegar Targaryen and Lyanna Stark, i.e. the real reason she died, not from poison or torture, but from childbirth, giving birth to Jon Snow…the public shame and secret that Ned Stark took with him to his grave to the fact that he was his uncle and not his father and to protect Jon from many people but especially the wrath of Robert Baratheon who actually thought that Lyanna loved him…never once considering that she actually loved Rhaegar and she was not kidnapped by him but ran away with him, especially as she realized she was pregnant with his son, Jon Snow…)

There is a reason Melissandre is instantly attracted to Jon Snow, to the power he radiates, he is more than a warg or skinchanger…and if he and Dany ever meet well I would quess the dragon will have its three heads and then Dany, Jon and Aegon (or Tyrion) can face the onslaught of the White Walkers!

i am quite happy keisha was cast as one of the sand snakes and not arianne.. i mean she looks a lot like i imagined her in the books but for me janina gavankar would be a better choice for arianne :) either way i’m happy with this casting

I think Yahoo is simply quoting The New Zealand Herald’s speculation. They had mentioned Nymeria in their original post. HBO had made it clear they aren’t going to confirm (or deny) her participation at this time, so Yahoo is just speculating.

Yes, we’ve already discussed that and it’s my mistake. That said, I do think that they were aiming for a darker skinned actress (though it’s possible that she won them over regardless of how she looks in her audition). I still think she could be Tyene, but she can certainly be Nymeria too. We’ll see, I guess.

The waiting will be excruciating for next season and the Dorne storyline. All my wishes would come true if Ricardo Darin were cast as Prince Doran and Ines Efron as either Arianne or Lady Nym if they decide not to cast Arianne.

I don’t remember that, I wasn’t part of the online fandom then (sadly). But this Keisha Castle-Hughes business can’t really be a outright lie or coincidence to my mind since she looks so much like a child of Pedro Pascal and Indira Varma!

We posted about him claiming to have a role on July 10th that year, and Comic Con was on July 13th. Maybe they didn’t feel the need to bother giving a fame-seeker attention since SDCC’s casting announcement was going to show he was obviously a fraud within a couple days anyway.

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This post concerns Obara Sand, it may be nothing but I found an Obara Sand twitter account which was activated on June 6 of this year. The first tweet was “…I guess its time to dust of this account.” The twitter page has pics of Michelle Rodriguez. Could this be a stealth account that has dropped under the radar of GoT fans and Ms Rodriguez is Obara, hmmm…
I noticed on both WIKI and IMDB she has nothing scheduled, but only a rumored role in a film.