My people seem to think that Communism and Socialism are the same thing. I shall now tell you what the difference is between Communism, Capitalism, and Socialism. I shall explain the difference economically.

First of all no country in the world is 100% capitalist. Even the United States has some socialist programs. Examples: Police department, fire department, post office, these things are controlled by the government, not company's. Having any law that effects the economy in any way is socialism. Even for something obvious like not allowing a company to hire assassins to kill off there competition. In effect if we were a true capitalist country then as long as you had the money you could do anything you wanted.

Communism is were the government controls everything. They control what is produced, how much is produced, how its produced, and who get what. The naive idea with Communism is if the government controls every thing then they can distribute everything equally. Communism would work in a perfect world but this isn't a perfect world and people are greedy by nature. Now here is were Communism fails, the leader's don't distribute the wealth equally. They give themselves more, also since the government has absolute power they use and abuse it and end up becoming tyrants and the people lose all there freedoms.

Socialism is in between Capitalism and Communism. There are many levels of Socialism. China is Socialism leaning closer to communism, United States is Socialism leaning closer to Capitalism, and then there is in between Socialism with country's like France and Germany. When I come to this I like to use the philosophy all things best in moderation.

Communism is were the government controls everything. They control what is produced, how much is produced, how its produced, and who get what. The naive idea with Communism is if the government controls every thing then they can distribute everything equally. Communism would work in a perfect world but this isn't a perfect world and people are greedy by nature. Now here is were Communism fails, the leader's don't distribute the wealth equally. They give themselves more, also since the government has absolute power they use and abuse it and end up becoming tyrants and the people lose all there freedoms.

Communism - is a revolutionary socialist movement to create a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology that aims at the establishment of this social order.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

Pure Communism - Strictly speaking, pure communism is a stage of social development where material and productive forces are advanced to a degree where actual freedom (freedom from necessity, and thus from wage labor and alienation from work) for every person is possiblehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateless_communism

In the real world we have never seen Communism. In the real world every single attempt at Communism has been botched by some monetary system or another. What you are proposing is not Pure Communism what you are proposing is a Communist Dictatorship which is a botched bastardization of what true and pure Communism actually is. Real True Communism is common ownership of everything for one and for all and a classless, moneyless, and stateless social order structured upon common ownership of the means of production, and social, political and economic ideology's.

That's true, however that's because it is impossible. It always ends up the way I mentioned before. Communism may not have been meant to to an tyrannical system but that's what's happened to every country that's tried it. In short Communism has failed.

That's true, however that's because it is impossible. It always ends up the way I mentioned before. Communism may not have been meant to to an tyrannical system but that's what's happened to every country that's tried it. In short Communism has failed.

How does it end when it never began LOL. Please don't regurgitate BS fascist propaganda because it is convenient. Communism cannot end in tyranny because the people the masses equally own all the forces that would otherwise be able and inclined to oppress them.

Communism cannot end in tyranny because the people the masses equally own all the forces that would otherwise be able and inclined to oppress them.

Yes and in al al land there are unicorns, fairy's, nobody dies, every one is nice to each other, there is no crime, no rape, no murder, every one is happy, every one gets what they want and no one is sad. Sorry leanlifter1 but the time has come for you to leave al al land and enter the real world. In the real world Communism does not work. You will probably not respond rationally to this. For you never do. You will probably just call me a fascist as you do with every one else that questions you and does not mindlessly follow you. You want to see a true fascist then look in a mirror.

At 11/22/12 11:52 AM, theburningliberal wrote:
Better examples of socialist programs would be public water system, national parks, highway system.

I'm not sure those are "Socialist" considering that government projects tend to predate Socialism. That's what people seem to confuse, nationalization does not mean that the government is Socialist, a large government does not necessarily mean it's Socialist either. Something like public education is Socialist I'd presume as would be medicare, but say roads? That's when it starts to be iffy.

"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.

At 11/22/12 11:52 AM, theburningliberal wrote:
Better examples of socialist programs would be public water system, national parks, highway system.

I'm not sure those are "Socialist" considering that government projects tend to predate Socialism. That's what people seem to confuse, nationalization does not mean that the government is Socialist, a large government does not necessarily mean it's Socialist either. Something like public education is Socialist I'd presume as would be medicare, but say roads? That's when it starts to be iffy.

Actual those things are still Socialist. The only difference is they did not have a name for it before. Its like the word genocide. It was created after the Nazi hollow cost. However there was there was still genocide before that, it just didn't have a name for it before.

At 11/22/12 02:14 PM, Jmayer20 wrote:
Actual those things are still Socialist. The only difference is they did not have a name for it before. Its like the word genocide. It was created after the Nazi hollow cost. However there was there was still genocide before that, it just didn't have a name for it before.

Jmayer has a point, but consider the definition of socialism: (This is kind of general but it suits the purpose): an economic system characterized by social ownership of the means of production and co-operative management.

Now, the water system we utilize the in the US today is publically owned, in that it is owned and operated by the people. We invest in it through paying out water bills and taxes, and we manage how it operated through local, state and federal ordinances. Don't believe me? Ask how we came up with and enforce what are considered to be acceptable levels of pollutants in our water supply, including chlorine. It is all done through legislative action at one level or another.

The biggest reason for this is that water is so crucial to supporting life, we have to have social control of the water delivery system.

Yes and in al al land there are unicorns, fairy's, nobody dies, every one is nice to each other, there is no crime, no rape, no murder, every one is happy, every one gets what they want and no one is sad. Sorry leanlifter1 but the time has come for you to leave al al land and enter the real world. In the real world Communism does not work. You will probably not respond rationally to this. For you never do. You will probably just call me a fascist as you do with every one else that questions you and does not mindlessly follow you. You want to see a true fascist then look in a mirror.

Your Quasi opinion and what Communism actually entails are to different things. What you are essentially trying to claim is that if you mix the color yellow with blue you with have the shade of white when in fact it is actually gray just the same as if you mix in an Autocratic Government into Communism it is no longer communism. Communism means a classless, moneyless, and "stateless" social order structured upon "common ownership" of the means of production, as well as a social, political and economic ideology whereas what you are trying to erroneously pass off Communism with an Autocracy.

At 11/22/12 08:53 PM, leanlifter1 wrote:
Your Quasi opinion and what Communism actually entails are to different things. What you are essentially trying to claim is that if you mix the color yellow with blue you with have the shade of white when in fact it is actually gray

WOW! Your more out of touch with reality then I thought. When you mix blue and yellow together you do not get white or gray. You get the color green. Most people have know that since before preschool. This explains a lot about how you can believe in a system that can not work. Even after I explain how it can not work. Look leanlifter1 if you are still have trouble with your colors then I think a debate on form of government is a bit beyond your league.

WOW! Your more out of touch with reality then I thought. When you mix blue and yellow together you do not get white or gray. You get the color green. Most people have know that since before preschool. This explains a lot about how you can believe in a system that can not work. Even after I explain how it can not work.

Your ad hominem attacks just highlight your ignorance toward the facts about Communism. You did not explain how Communism works or cannot work for that matter as what you are in referent to is not Communism at all it is Autocracy.

At 11/22/12 11:21 AM, Jmayer20 wrote:
My people seem to think that Communism and Socialism are the same thing. I shall now tell you what the difference is between Communism, Capitalism, and Socialism. I shall explain the difference economically.

At least you're offering definitions. While there's no such thing a a correct definition, only the definition held as correct by a sufficient majority of people, I would like to offer an alternative definition.

Communism - A Stateless classless society founded on common ownership of the means of production.
Socialism - All property owned by the State

This is the definition that Karl Marx used as well as the definition used by the Communists themselves.

The trick is that while what they called themselves was Communists, because that was ostensibly their primary goal, they were not actually practicing communism when they subjected their citizens to what is today called Totalitarian rule by a party elite; this was referred to as Socialism and it was treated as an intermediate stage between the revolution and a communistic Utopia. This is also why, I believe, the government was referred to as the Union of Soviet Socialist republics rather than the Union of Soviet Communist republics.

Capitalism has multiple conflicting definitions and in my mind is more of an attitude about things than a description of anything. The term free market is more descriptive, but in order to have a working definition of free market you need a working definition of 'private' property and 'public' property; most people do not have such a clear conception of property. If you lack a definition of public and private property, you won't actually be able to identify whether an entity is public or private at all.

But definitions of any of these terms are only relevant in the context of debates about them. When the words are used to mean such a wide variety of things you don't stand a chance of getting people to agree to apply it consistently to one thing and one thing only. But you can get people to at least understand what you mean when you use the term in a sentence.

On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

At 11/22/12 11:21 AM, Jmayer20 wrote:
My people seem to think that Communism and Socialism are the same thing. I shall now tell you what the difference is between Communism, Capitalism, and Socialism. I shall explain the difference economically.

At 11/23/12 12:28 PM, Jmayer20 wrote:
Just because the Conservatives make a concerted effort to redefine terms such a Liberal or Socialist, it does not mean that the correct definition in the academic textbooks no longer applies.

Frankly it should be illegal to call anything or anyone fascist. For one simple reason, if any word fits the following category;

"We can't agree what [Word] actually means, but we all agree that [word] is [Good / Bad]"

The word is essentially useless, it's basically a tool either to slander or praise something without just cause.

Fascism fits that label, the term is used to slander someone or some thing.

That doesn't mean that you can generate a functional definition of fascism and then identify something as fascist because it has the essential elements of fascism, but if this is the case, why not simply say that that something has certain elements.

In theory, identifying the elements of a given descriptive term, and showing how they apply to an object, should for any half-decent intelligent individual, evoke the same feelings as if they used the short-hand term.

X is a murderer
X intentionally takes the life of others without a valid justification.

If the feelings don't match, you know the word has taken on a life of its own.

On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

Alright tell us what do you think fascism is? Please be very specific. Don't just say something lame like they are bad guys that do bad thing. Have a specific definition.

;;;;
Facism , a tolitarian government that glorifys the state/nation, attempts to nationalize every aspect of life over its citizens, it favors & promotes elitism, puts corporate/big business interests not just ahead of, but over its citizens rights !

also more simply - quote "ownership/control of a government by an individual, a small group or other controling private power ." Franlin D Rosevelt

So is that clear enough ?

Those who have only the religious opinions of others in their head & worship them. Have no room for their own thoughts & no room to contemplate anyone elses ideas either-More

At 11/23/12 12:52 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
Frankly it should be illegal to call anything or anyone fascist. For one simple reason, if any word fits the following category;

"We can't agree what [Word] actually means ...

If you have a hard time understanding just what Fascism is then just close your eyes and think of the Fascist Adolf Hitler.

Fascism - A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror, censorship, and propaganda and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

At 11/23/12 12:52 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
Frankly it should be illegal to call anything or anyone fascist. For one simple reason, if any word fits the following category;

"We can't agree what [Word] actually means ...

If you have a hard time understanding just what Fascism is then just close your eyes and think of the Fascist Adolf Hitler.

Fascism - A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror, censorship, and propaganda and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

There's a difference between being confused about what an idea means and noting the fact that people have trouble agreeing on what does and does not constitute fascism, even if they can point to Italy and Germany in the 1930's as examples.

I can hold a very specific notion of Fascism in my head but it will likely find itself at odds with what other people imagine when they throw the word about carelessly.

On a moving train there are no centrists, only radicals and reactionaries.

At 11/23/12 02:30 PM, SmilezRoyale wrote:
I can hold a very specific notion of Fascism in my head but it will likely find itself at odds with what other people imagine when they throw the word about carelessly.

;;;;
Facism doesn't mean you have Hitler or as in history in 30's Italy ...Mussolini's facist government.

That is what many people get confused by, they believe you have to be ruled by a dictator ... when that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

THe US has an elected Government , yet the majority of those elected people get money from the same large Corporate companies, Companies that are actively lobbying those same elected officials to make & or change rules to suit the Corporate profit line.

That conflict of interest is part of the reason the USA is in the financial mess its in, WHen a Cartel like the Fed Central Banking system, controls your money supply , they are in control of your country. You can deny it.
You can scream & cry & rant and rail , that it has "appointed government officials Blah, blah, blah, that doesn't change that an outside entity controled by unelected elite are in control & so politicians, who's campaigns are funded by these people, who's access to money is controled by these people are protecting themselves & the elites wishes over & above the needs & wants of the citizens of the country.

The increasing size of your policing agencies, the spread of warrentless searches, arrest powers without charege, the Presidents ability to label anyone a terroist & give an order to kill that person without, any charges being laid, or access to a trial, these are all the things Hitlers Gestapo & SS did. Therse are the things Musolini's black shirts did.
You Presidential powers under Bush & they have been expanded under Obama, where US military personel can be used against Americans on American soil, the Presidetial power under the NDAA suspending habeas corpus, they constant disreguard of your Constitution & Bill of rights directly because it limits the power of the "leader" & his ability to take care of his elitest friends !

Those who have only the religious opinions of others in their head & worship them. Have no room for their own thoughts & no room to contemplate anyone elses ideas either-More

Fascism: a governmental system led by a dictator having complete power, forcibly suppressing opposition and criticism, regimenting all industry, commerce, etc., and emphasizing an aggressive nationalism and often racism.

The way I see it, the modern economy is comprised of three forces: business, state, and organized labor. In a functional economy, these three forces balance and mediate between each other, just as the legislative, executive, and judicial branches are meant to do in a functional democratic/republican government. Give any one of these three too much power, or reduce the power of one too far, and the system becomes unbalanced and dysfunctional.

Pure capitalism is the absolute economic power of business, above and to the detriment of state and labor (assuming they even exist). Likewise, pure state socialism is the absolute economic power of the state over/against labor and business, and pure syndicalism is the absolute economic power of labor over/against business and state. Pure communism, by definition, removes state from the socialist equation, and is thus an entirely different form of economy.

Fascism is not an economic system. Historically, fascist governments have been known to use and embrace all three forces. Fascist Italy, for example, officially had a nationalist-syndicalist platform, but Nazi Germany was by name officially nationalist-socialist. (Note I say "officially," since what a party or politician preached is not necessarily what they practiced.) While we arguably have yet to see a nationalist-capitalist form of fascism assume control of a nation, it is not an impossible scenario; the fictitious Caldari State is one such entity, and it is argued by some that the United States is headed in this direction or is at that point already.

At 11/23/12 05:36 PM, morefngdbs wrote:
Facism doesn't mean you have Hitler or as in history in 30's Italy ...Mussolini's facist government.

That is what many people get confused by, they believe you have to be ruled by a dictator ... when that doesn't necessarily have to be the case.

The US has an elected Government , yet the majority of those elected people get money from the same large Corporate companies, Companies that are actively lobbying those same elected officials to make & or change rules to suit the Corporate profit line.

That conflict of interest is part of the reason the USA is in the financial mess its in, When a Cartel like the Fed Central Banking system, controls your money supply , they are in control of your country.

I agree that the banking corruption is bad and something needs to be done about it. However I disagree with your claim that it is fascism. Because the definition I found on dictionary.com does not fit with it. People often use words like fascism to describe everything they don't like. I believe this is just another case of generalizing all the bad things under one thing.

However the world is much more complex then good vs evil. Example Stalin and Hitler were both evil. However they were enemy's. Hitler was on the side of the Axis and Stalin was on the side of the allies. That's why you should not generalize things.

At 11/23/12 12:45 PM, TheKlown wrote:
You mad brah? You don't want the Truth, you can't handle the truth!

You actually believe that crap? Because if the modern day Democratic party is Socialist then the Republican party before Reagan was downright Communist. The Democrats are not Socialists in any way, sure they and the GOP support Socialist programs but that's because America loves Socialism, they just don't like the name.

"If you don't mind smelling like peanut butter for two or three days, peanut butter is darn good shaving cream.
" - Barry Goldwater.