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For such a powerful commander of darkness he sure does sound like a punk.

1. He's talking way too much. 2. He's too powerful for outward grandstanding and petty chest bumping3. He sounds like a orc, and it feels too contrived.4. All that to say, it's like a wrestling promo. It's hard to take him serious and I'm not just talking about quest battle speeches5. Have him be more sinister and calculated like a dark lord is supposed to sound.6. He supposed to sound more confident and not like he's compensating for something. 7. Don't have to write different lines, but say it in a darker and less wrestling promo way. But I would like him to say less.

Maybe voicing Archaon was as unfinished as the whole dlc because of the sudden want to have them playable. And CA just quickly voiced him?

You know, maybe CA wanted to do something with chaos fortresses all along because that encamp stance sure doesn't look like a camp ....and that pic you show sure doesn't look like a dwarven fort. Just sayin.

Now that I think about it... Archaon does sound a lot like an orc. So does Kholek if I'm not mistaken. I get he's supposed to be the ultimate bad guy for the game but not every masked badguy needs to sound like they just gargled nails and pencil shavings.

Now that I think about it... Archaon does sound a lot like an orc. So does Kholek if I'm not mistaken. I get he's supposed to be the ultimate bad guy for the game but not every masked badguy needs to sound like they just gargled nails and pencil shavings.

The mod is pretty incredible. It still leaves the headache that is close proximity infighting, but it's a really good mod. CA should have a look. It doesn't really make things easier as I was expecting, but it is definitely interesting.

Just the close proximity infighting really bothered me this around because I haven't played chaos in a while. If there is one thing to scrap it's that infighting feature.

The mod is pretty incredible. It still leaves the headache that is close proximity infighting, but it's a really good mod. CA should have a look. It doesn't really make things easier as I was expecting, but it is definitely interesting.

Just the close proximity infighting really bothered me this around because I haven't played chaos in a while. If there is one thing to scrap it's that infighting feature.

I play with a mod that removes infighting and I will continue to use that mod until a day when CA removes it from the game entirely.

This mod is like really nice grounding for the overhaul, because here what this mod address, and does it in a fun way:

Highlights:- 57 new skills, some with brand new effects! All lords have completely new skill trees, themed towards the four Gods of Chaos.- Complete overhaul of horde development and recruitment, designed to minimise the importance of horde growth and make losing a horde feel much less painful. New tactics – such as using cheap marauder hordes – will be more viable, and the player should feel much freer to take risks.- Numerous quality of life changes, such as new ways to replenish, easy vassalisation of Norscan AI, and changed options for dealing with captured cities.

All of this is true but I have not tried to capture a city yet to see the options.

LORD SKILLS:The most substantial part of the mod is the large number of new skills available to lords, mostly divided into four trees, each devoted to one of the Chaos Gods. Chaos Lords, Kholek and Sigvald will have access to all four trees, and Sorcerer Lords will have access to all but Khorne’s.

- Lords pledged to Nurgle are slow but immensely durable. They also provide potent debuffs to enemy armies on both the battle and campaign map; even enabling attrition in areas without chaos corruption. Eventually they can gain regeneration for themselves and grant poison attacks and attrition immunity to their whole army.

- Lords pledged to Khorne can deal terrible damage on the battlefield, at the cost of their own survivability. They grant powerful attack buffs to their followers, especially melee infantry. Those truly devoted to Khorne can give their whole army Frenzy, allowing them to tear through their opponents.

- Lords pledged to Tzeentch offer a range of useful campaign buffs, and can sacrifice their own combat effectiveness to make their troops stronger. At the highest level, they can gain a powerful damage aura and grant their army a ward save.

- Lords pledged to Slaanesh focus on speed and strategy. Their soldiers, especially their cavalry, are fast and agile. This extends to the campaign map, as devotees of Slaanesh get access to the Lightning Strike ability.

While you can mix together skills from the first tier of each chain, going beyond that in any one chain will prevent you from accessing the top-tier skills of the others. So choose carefully!

However, if you resist the urge to commit to any one God, you’ll be able to take two powerful Undivided abilities: the first, Bow to None, offers a mixture of potent campaign bonuses. The second, Champion of Chaos Undivided, makes the Lord and all armies in his region immune to horde infighting.

The new trees are currently available to all lords except Archaon, who will be getting his own skills in the next version of the mod.

This is fantastic, and it works so well. If CA did this I would like to see your chaos lord change according to his path. With exception to the LLs of course. And I can't wait until he makes Archaon's skills.

RECRUITMENT:Most recruitment is now done via the main settlement building line, with only variant units (GW warriors, halberd chosen, knights with lances etc.) requiring extra buildings. You’ll no longer have to wait for dozens of points of horde growth to slowly accrue to gain access to top–tier units.

However, the armies of Chaos will not follow the weak. Recruiting anything but marauder-tier troops will be slow and expensive until your lord can invest in a new set of skills. Want affordable Dragon Ogres? You’ll want to invest a point in the Bestial Affinity skill, available from level 6 (unless you’re Kholek, of course – he starts with it).

But don’t worry about having to level up new lords from scratch as the campaign goes on – the main line of techs now offers bonuses to Lord recruit level, so your late-game lords will be able to jump into the fight much faster.

Don't worry guys, this works very well together. You can even potentially start as sigvald and have Archaon recruited later and he'll be nice and leveled up depending on your tech tree progress.

BUILDINGS:Most horde buildings have had their effects completely changed so as to provide new and interesting bonuses:

- Marauder Tree offers horde growth and recruitment slots

- The Magic tree unlocks and empowers Chaos Sorcerers and increases the horde’s magic reserves. The brand-new tier three building, the Dark Portal, will allow a small amount of replenishment anywhere in the world – even when not encamped!

- The Forge tree unlocks variant Warriors and Chosen, and gives boosts to armour and artillery.

- As before, the Trophies tree offers income, but now also provides experience to the army.

- The new Raiding Tree offers big bonuses to sack and raze income.

- The Troll’s Larder unlocks armoured trolls, and gives you a handy way to deal with enemy agents...

Works well. Just note I got Kholek early, around turn 20-25. I'm not 100% sure what unlocked him.

REPLENISHMENT:On top of the new Dark Portal building, Chaos will have two new ways to replenish their forces.

- The new “Raze and Revel” option after capturing a city, which offers 15% replenishment for one turn.

- Your forces will now replenish in areas with over 50% chaos corruption, even when not in encampment stance. So get out there and spread that corruption!(This has the weird side effect of allowing wood elves with the attrition immunity tech or Durthu’s attrition immunity trait to also replenish in corrupted areas, but I thought it was worth it)

I think a lot of chaos players will love this.

DIPLOMACY:You’ll no longer have to reinvade freshly-awakened Norscan tribes: they’re now desperate to pay tribute to you, and if you offer them vassal status they should accept pretty swiftly, so long as you're still friendly.

If CA were to fix chaos up like that mod, then the citadel would be solely for keeping your campaign alive, and permanent refuge, and corrupting the regions. Therefore only needing 1. So you would only be able to build one.

On top of that CA could still do this stuff to make the campaign fun.

- Make the encampment stance a raiding encampment stance. Replenishment and raiding at the same time.

-Archaon should get a trait that makes him immune to infighting attrition because he's the dark god's chosen champion, and the majority of chaos followers revere him. Chaos lords can earn it through leveling up and winning battles. Maybe it can be a trait that is rewarded through cooperative actions.

-Revoice Archaon. He sounds too crazed robot orcy to me, or a wrestling promo. Archaon should sound like a menacing Dark lord. Hint: Use Narrator from the Chaos trailer please (The voice acting is good in this game, but I don't know how the Archaon voice guy got away with such silliness) I know this cost money though.

-Give chaos heroes the ability to manipulate another agent to join their cause

-Give chaos heroes the ability to manipulate lords and control their army temporarily depending on the skill and level. (This could be very overpowered, and frustrating against the AI though)The balance could be a high level hero or a new manipulation skill tree. Limit it to 2 turns (3max) and exempt the AI from having that ability.

-Give chaos the option of giving "money' to any faction in exchange for +3 to +10 corruption depending on the amount of money given. 500= +2 corruption 1200= +4 corruption

-Give chaos heroes the ability to infiltrate a settlement for X amount of turns. After X amount of turns there will be a new building that replaces a current building in that settlement. This new building will be one that sucks money out of the faction and cause chaos corruption. -1200 gold and +5 corruption. These buildings can cost a chunk of money to get rid of. And your agent might get wounded and fail the mission in the process depending on level and skill.

-The Eye of the Gods mechanicThe WoC have to do certain deeds to keep the gods entertained or risk losing divine support. (Discussion and Specifics on page 5)

-Chaos ascendancy. From chieftain to chaos lord, all the way to daemon prince. Maybe make an evolution of chaos generals in the campaign.

I have to find a way to present this to the devs. One of them said he wants to go back and make the original races up to par with DLC. And I believe a merge of this overhaul and that mod I linked will be perfect for chaos and beyond "up to par". But I have to write it up first and change some things from this overhaul.

Should I make a new thread?

Yeah new thread incoming. It will be better in my opinion. 100% keeping the horde mech unless someone hits me with something brilliant. Adjusting the citadel role and mech.. And keeping all the super cool suggestions we discussed. ....and yes horde infighting is the worse. It will be based off this mod so please check it out (or read KGpoopy's conveniently timed posts about it above). Warlords of Chaos (WIP version 2)http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=890292457

Short Story about close proximity infighting I recruited Kholek after a close win with Sigvald. They were forced to sit there and take attrition, but on the next turn I moved Kholek away so I can replenish from battle. I hit the turn button and out from the mountain pops a Skaeling stack and wipes out Kholek in one swoop. ....That would not have happened if they could stay near eachother. Like a bunch a animals they can't be near eachother. What's the thinking behind that?

I have to find a way to present this to the devs. One of them said he wants to go back and make the original races up to par with DLC. And I believe a merge of this overhaul and that mod I linked will be perfect for chaos and beyond "up to par". But I have to write it up first and change some things from this overhaul.

Should I make a new thread?

Yeah new thread incoming. It will be better in my opinion. 100% keeping the horde mech unless someone hits me with something brilliant. Adjusting the citadel role and mech.. And keeping all the super cool suggestions we discussed. ....and yes horde infighting is the worse.

Short Story about close proximity infighting I recruited Kholek after a close win with Sigvald. They were forced to sit there and take attrition, but on the next turn I moved Kholek away so I can replenish from battle. I hit the turn button and out from the mountain pops a Skaeling stack and wipes out Kholek in one swoop. ....That would not have happened if they could stay near eachother. Like a bunch a animals they can't be near eachother. What's the thinking behind that?

It needs to be removed. There's no reason I've heard that justifies infighting being in the game at all let alone ONLY for Chaos (seriously, beastmen and greenskins didn't seem like better factions to throw that on?) and ONLY for the player. AI has immunity just as a rule it would seem. I can't think of any purpose it may fill but I can think k of dozens why it ruins the fun.

I have to find a way to present this to the devs. One of them said he wants to go back and make the original races up to par with DLC. And I believe a merge of this overhaul and that mod I linked will be perfect for chaos and beyond "up to par". But I have to write it up first and change some things from this overhaul.

Should I make a new thread?

Yeah new thread incoming. It will be better in my opinion. 100% keeping the horde mech unless someone hits me with something brilliant. Adjusting the citadel role and mech.. And keeping all the super cool suggestions we discussed. ....and yes horde infighting is the worse.

Short Story about close proximity infighting I recruited Kholek after a close win with Sigvald. They were forced to sit there and take attrition, but on the next turn I moved Kholek away so I can replenish from battle. I hit the turn button and out from the mountain pops a Skaeling stack and wipes out Kholek in one swoop. ....That would not have happened if they could stay near eachother. Like a bunch a animals they can't be near eachother. What's the thinking behind that?

It needs to be removed. There's no reason I've heard that justifies infighting being in the game at all let alone ONLY for Chaos (seriously, beastmen and greenskins didn't seem like better factions to throw that on?) and ONLY for the player. AI has immunity just as a rule it would seem. I can't think of any purpose it may fill but I can think k of dozens why it ruins the fun.

Yeah ripping each other apart because of close proximity sounds like a Orc/beastmen thing more so than chaos undivided aka the Warrior of chaos. Even still it would be a tragic feature.

Typed a lot of it up. It's not as heavily based on that mod at all actually lol. I've re-stated some of things we talked about, and I tweaked some things you suggested. I made changes to the citadel idea too (It's closer to the lore as possible and more balanced). and more. I will post this as a new thread, and I will be heavily inviting Devs to comment with thoughts. Next week though, because I'll be really busy starting tomorrow.

Typed a lot of it up. It's not as heavily based on that mod at all actually lol. I've re-stated some of things we talked about, and I tweaked some things you suggested. I made changes to the citadel idea too (It's closer to the lore as possible and more balanced). and more. I will post this as a new thread, and I will be heavily inviting Devs to comment with thoughts. Next week though, because I'll be really busy starting tomorrow.

becasue the mod is based off of community suggestion to CA, including this thread.

The mod sounds more like "WoC Easy Mode" to me since it basically takes everything away that makes the WoC campaign even remotely challenging.

That's the thing, isn't it? Most "improvements" I see suggested always boil down to "make the game easier".

Most suggestions you see you have the need to complain about anyway so it's really less about the possibility it might be "easy mode" and more about the fact you just don't like it. Gonna give some valuable input or just continue b---ching into the mind?