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Hi everyone, I am an incel and never had a relationship but I have had sex. I am wondering: how does going with prostitutes or having regular sex help in being more free in approaching women? Are the two linked or not? Does having sex have the same effects as practice dating?

_________________I remember in high school how annoyed my older brother was when I showed up around his "social situations". I remember the look of disgust he gave me and the scoffing. Telling me to go away, I was an embarrassment to be associated with. My younger brother and his friends had made an interview style video where each took turns talking about how much of a loser I was...I found the recording. Perhaps that was intentional.I remember the high school social media club (the kind that make year book videos) approached me to interview, pulled me from class, in the hallway, camera in my face, snickers and hostile mocking. I knew why they were there and I wasn't happy. When the video came out, they showed only a brief clip of my fear and embarrassment, then showed something else.My social status was obvious.

I asked as two psychologists had two different views. One of them said that if I have regular sex I will remove anxiety in the approach with girls.

The other one said that having sex is different to approaching girls and even if I have good sex regularly when I end up in a bar or club I will still be blocked in the approach.

Depends why exactly you have trouble approaching.

Most people assume approach anxiety is equivalent to rejection anxiety, that it's an ego/esteem thing. From what I've seen, however, LS is different where it's more a fear of being socially inappropriate. The mindset of the LS male goes a bit like "I have to respect girls and not be some disgusting lewd pervert who hits on girls." then "but how do I get a girl without hitting on them and seeming like some disgusting weirdo?".

So it's less about being turned down, and more about how society creates a "creepy uncle" stereotype for males that make unwanted advances, and we don't want to be seen as that guy. "toxic shame" arises from this unhealthy association of expressing sexuality as something shameful. Though it's not even an irrational unhealthy association; society is quite clear about how it views undesirable males who dare to be sexual. If anything, we're reacting how they want us to, by being shamed into our corners.

At least that mindset seems a common theme in the LS.

So... I think sex might help a bit. If you become accustomed to the idea of sex being something that applies to you without shame, it could help ease things a bit. But I doubt it'll completely remove approach anxiety, because it doesn't change that stereotype or social construct of the approacher as being the harrasser.

I think that you need to create a new person and move somewhere else. The problem is that from my experience (I've been changing countries and cities since the age of 4 and am 32 now) is that I go on making the same mistakes over and over. I have more self-esteem than I used to but still do not approach a girl alone unless I am presented to her. If I get a contact it is rare for me to go out and if I do I am easily friendzoned.

That is why I was thinking that maybe if I have more sex I can improve my self-esteem and maybe less problems in approaching women, just a thought though.

It helped me to pay for sexual experience. I don't worry about being a virgin now. I no longer am. When I hear other talking about sex , I can identify with what they're saying. It didn't matter to me how the sex came about. The experiences I had weren't bad either.

From personal experience I find that liaisons just answer the need for sex, which ultimately is hollow. They can enhance communication skills, but they just don't transfer outside of this artificial situation. Oddly, going for a massage decreases anxiety with women, and they do like to chat! If you want to combine that with "relief" then many Thai establishments offer "happy endings". They certainly don't help with "real world" connections with women. In fact, from hard learnt experience, the reverse is truer, in that liaisons somehow separate you further. You become embarrassed about how you learnt about sex, and that blocks you from engaging in the outside world because you'd rather avoid any humiliation or rejection when you feel you've got to disclose your past.

Love and sex have a massive divide for some, but not all, women. These are your ideal partners, not the serial guy chasers, who'll just fuel misogynistic judgements. Also, prostitutes can become addictive, just like pornography. In tandem they'll just mess with your mind to the extent that you can't relate to women at all, and they become objectified. I'm afraid that the bar and club "pick up" joints are simply useless and self defeating. Shy just looks vulnerable and thus exploitable for ridicule and humiliation. And, it's impossible to talk, so you'll not be able to reveal the real you within, who is probably a really great person. I've found that a gym sauna, a shared experience, creates social confidence, and, stripped of all artifice, that is clothing, it's an equalising environment.

If someone accepts you for who you really are, after you've formed a bond based on trust and honesty, then I think you'll be able to justify your use of prostitutes, to someone who sees beyond your shy self. All I can say, after nigh on two decades of commercial sex, is that before you can open yourself to love you need to find how to accept and love yourself. That's a hard journey. And you probably need an understanding and sympathetic therapist. Good luck on getting to that acceptance.

Most people assume approach anxiety is equivalent to rejection anxiety, that it's an ego/esteem thing. From what I've seen, however, LS is different where it's more a fear of being socially inappropriate. The mindset of the LS male goes a bit like "I have to respect girls and not be some disgusting lewd pervert who hits on girls." then "but how do I get a girl without hitting on them and seeming like some disgusting weirdo?".

So it's less about being turned down, and more about how society creates a "creepy uncle" stereotype for males that make unwanted advances, and we don't want to be seen as that guy. "toxic shame" arises from this unhealthy association of expressing sexuality as something shameful. Though it's not even an irrational unhealthy association; society is quite clear about how it views undesirable males who dare to be sexual. If anything, we're reacting how they want us to, by being shamed into our corners. .

That used to be me in my teenage years, but as an adult I finally got the courage to ask out girls, after being rejected 100 times (By rejected I mean soft rejections where a girl tells me she is not single, but some really hard rejections where a girl insults me for no reason) I turned into LN (Love Numb) where am for all intents and purposes, a psychopath with very little positive emotions who has been so burnt out and humiliated by society that they have very little sympathy for anyone.

Asking girls out now becomes a statistics problem...if I ask a girl out once a day I may eventually win. As long as I can control my rage, hurt and humiliation when they say no and maintain my composure and don't go to jail.

Quote:

If someone accepts you for who you really are, after you've formed a bond based on trust and honesty, then I think you'll be able to justify your use of prostitutes, to someone who sees beyond your shy self. All I can say, after nigh on two decades of commercial sex, is that before you can open yourself to love you need to find how to accept and love yourself. That's a hard journey. And you probably need an understanding and sympathetic therapist.

I told my therapist I had a crush on her, she rejected me as I was crying and sobbing in the room. I told her I only wanted to not be so alone and she didn't even care. Now whenever I go to the mental health clinic she gives me hateful dirty looks of disgust. But I make sure my looks at her are even more hateful. Any hate she can do to me I can outdo tenfold.

I feel like the interaction with the hooker (or fwb) could better help with approaching girls or whoever you are interested in. could also help in experience, but i could see this being a bad idea with possible sex addiction (real thing), falling for her due to the physical interaction, and lowerly yourself respect if the behavior is constant. i feel like if you can control yourself you can achieve something.

For me at age 57, going to a hooker to lose my virginity would only make me feel more like a loser. It would prove that I'm simply not good enough to be accepted by a woman in the real world. (Since I have a 100% rejection rate, that's true anyway). I know it's way too late for my first time to be "special". Since most guys lose it in their teens, I'm a major freak of nature. I've gone through my entire life wondering what it would be like. Some close friends encouraged me to get a hooker when I was in my 30's. But I was SO SURE that my time was just around the corner. Surely, there was at least ONE woman out there who would want to have sex with me because she was actually ATTRACTED to me. It would then be a mutual experience. Now, at this late stage in the game, I would be embarrassed and humiliated even more than I already am to pull out a wad of cash and hand it to some stranger so I could experience what 99% of the population have experienced the normal way. And it's unlikely I could sustain an erection knowing this. (Yes, I know there's Viagra, but that's beside the point).

Even if I did decide to call an escort, it's unlikely she would be attractive or hot. My town is a Bible belt quagmire that probably doesn't have a lot of pros.

_________________Light cannot exist without darkness. Each has its purpose.And if there's a purpose to my darkness, maybe it's to bring some balance to the world.- Dexter Morgan

Dude, you sound like a broken record. You gotta stop whining and crying about it in every other one of your posts. Sack up, take some initiative and spend an hour with an escort. It may not be your ideal way, but that’s life. Drive to New Orleans, Atlanta or Nashville where they’ll probably have lots of cute ladies to meet up with and then just stick it in her. She won’t judge your looks as long as you’re nice to her because chances are she’ll want repeat clients. Afterwards, once you get over the stigma of losing it to an escort, you’ll feel the weight of the world lifted off your shoulders. You’ll also probably feel more at ease and will start behaving less clingy, stalky around women (they sense desperation in a guy, and it creeps them out) which helps draw ladies to you.

Good luck, bro!

alone99 wrote:

For me at age 57, going to a hooker to lose my virginity would only make me feel more like a loser. It would prove that I'm simply not good enough to be accepted by a woman in the real world. (Since I have a 100% rejection rate, that's true anyway). I know it's way too late for my first time to be "special". Since most guys lose it in their teens, I'm a major freak of nature. I've gone through my entire life wondering what it would be like. Some close friends encouraged me to get a hooker when I was in my 30's. But I was SO SURE that my time was just around the corner. Surely, there was at least ONE woman out there who would want to have sex with me because she was actually ATTRACTED to me. It would then be a mutual experience. Now, at this late stage in the game, I would be embarrassed and humiliated even more than I already am to pull out a wad of cash and hand it to some stranger so I could experience what 99% of the population have experienced the normal way. And it's unlikely I could sustain an erection knowing this. (Yes, I know there's Viagra, but that's beside the point).

Even if I did decide to call an escort, it's unlikely she would be attractive or hot. My town is a Bible belt quagmire that probably doesn't have a lot of pros.

I don't give a fuck, I went and I paid for the service. Money transaction and see you in another life. Yes sex with a girlfriend could be different, but if you really have no option. Hire a escort. Who the hell wants to be a virgin? I'm all for this type of services, less creeps, rapists. And of course porn, who looks cool but after getting more desensitized you're looking at rape and sick shit.

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