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Outhouse Editor

LobsterJ wrote:I'm always torn on her because while she occasionally has a good point I largely disagree with a lot of what she says...but the people who come out with videos criticizing her are always the worst dregs of the internet and make me embarrassed for dudes in general.

In comparison to Anita, someone like TheAmazingAtheist is the greater evil....but that's a low bar to clear.

Outhouse Editor

LobsterJ wrote:I'm always torn on her because while she occasionally has a good point I largely disagree with a lot of what she says...but the people who come out with videos criticizing her are always the worst dregs of the internet and make me embarrassed for dudes in general.

In comparison to Anita, someone like TheAmazingAtheist is the greater evil....but that's a low bar to clear.

cheese

LobsterJ wrote:I'm always torn on her because while she occasionally has a good point I largely disagree with a lot of what she says...but the people who come out with videos criticizing her are always the worst dregs of the internet and make me embarrassed for dudes in general.

This.

It's not that she isn't right about video games being largely male dominated and poorly written.But I think a lot of the validity in her points gets lost in her repetition, rhetoric, and general lack of positive alternative suggestions. "Do better" is not really a valid solution. Particularly given the costs involved in making video games and the desire to sell more games to gamers... who are predominantly young males.

That said... there's nothing there that really justifies a lot of these "counterpoint" videos. Especially not to the point of name calling and such.

cheese

LobsterJ wrote:I'm always torn on her because while she occasionally has a good point I largely disagree with a lot of what she says...but the people who come out with videos criticizing her are always the worst dregs of the internet and make me embarrassed for dudes in general.

This.

It's not that she isn't right about video games being largely male dominated and poorly written.But I think a lot of the validity in her points gets lost in her repetition, rhetoric, and general lack of positive alternative suggestions. "Do better" is not really a valid solution. Particularly given the costs involved in making video games and the desire to sell more games to gamers... who are predominantly young males.

That said... there's nothing there that really justifies a lot of these "counterpoint" videos. Especially not to the point of name calling and such.

Not a Kardashian

I also agree with her more often than not -- and, as everyone here can guess, I do like the fact that she cites tropes! But I do agree that some of her point gets lost when she repeats her words for EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. an example of something is shown. By the time she hammers in something like "The wife in [insert game here] is killed, and the daughter is kidnapped..." for the 4th or 5th time, unconscious eye-rolling starts to occur.

One trope she needs to learn about is "Show, Don't Tell". Once she's described what's going on, she should let the game scenes speak for themselves. Or at least say anything else other than the umpteenth "The wife in [insert game here] is killed, and the daughter is kidnapped..."

Not a Kardashian

I also agree with her more often than not -- and, as everyone here can guess, I do like the fact that she cites tropes! But I do agree that some of her point gets lost when she repeats her words for EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. an example of something is shown. By the time she hammers in something like "The wife in [insert game here] is killed, and the daughter is kidnapped..." for the 4th or 5th time, unconscious eye-rolling starts to occur.

One trope she needs to learn about is "Show, Don't Tell". Once she's described what's going on, she should let the game scenes speak for themselves. Or at least say anything else other than the umpteenth "The wife in [insert game here] is killed, and the daughter is kidnapped..."

<( ' . ' )>

Gotta love the mob mentality of "If you hate Anita Sarkeesian and Feminist Frequency you're a sexist". Suddenly, critical thinking and objectionable analysis are the makings of a patriotic masochistic fuck. People are so irrationally one-sided that they just buy into any school of thought to feel unique and loved.

99.9999% of Humanities programs in the Higher Education sphere focus on developing critical reading, writing and thinking skills. The problem is that our culture and society do not value these skills outside of an educational sphere and are so inclined to create drones who repeat without question ideologies of subjugation and control.

While I can appreciate her attempt at instituting "change", I can't respect her methods of distributing propaganda nor can I respect people whose motivation behind change is to reform those from one social construct into their own preferred social construct. She's basically an evangelist in Africa selling a corrupted ideology of "Jesus" to the poor so they can live with the belief that somehow, some way, someone may or may not want to make things better. No solutions, just problems.

<( ' . ' )>

Gotta love the mob mentality of "If you hate Anita Sarkeesian and Feminist Frequency you're a sexist". Suddenly, critical thinking and objectionable analysis are the makings of a patriotic masochistic fuck. People are so irrationally one-sided that they just buy into any school of thought to feel unique and loved.

99.9999% of Humanities programs in the Higher Education sphere focus on developing critical reading, writing and thinking skills. The problem is that our culture and society do not value these skills outside of an educational sphere and are so inclined to create drones who repeat without question ideologies of subjugation and control.

While I can appreciate her attempt at instituting "change", I can't respect her methods of distributing propaganda nor can I respect people whose motivation behind change is to reform those from one social construct into their own preferred social construct. She's basically an evangelist in Africa selling a corrupted ideology of "Jesus" to the poor so they can live with the belief that somehow, some way, someone may or may not want to make things better. No solutions, just problems.

Outhouse Editor

More from the video wrote:Of course, if you look at any of these games in isolation, you will be able to find incidental narrative circumstances that can be used to explain away the inclusion of violence against women as a plot device. But just because a particular event might “makes sense” within the internal logic of a fictional narrative – that doesn’t, in and of itself justify its use. Games don’t exist in a vacuum and therefore can’t be divorced from the larger cultural context of the real world.

It’s especially troubling in-light of the serious real life epidemic of violence against women facing the female population on this planet. Every 9 seconds a woman is assaulted or beaten in the United States and on average more than three women are murdered by their boyfriends husbands, or ex-partners every single day. Research consistently shows that people of all genders tend to buy into the myth that women are the ones to blame for the violence men perpetrate against them. In the same vein, abusive men consistently state that their female targets “deserved it”, “wanted it” or were “asking for it”,

Given the reality of that larger cultural context, it should go without saying that it’s dangerously irresponsible to be creating games in which players are encouraged and even required to perform violence against women in order to “save them”.

Even though most of the games we’re talking about don’t explicitly condone violence against women, nevertheless they trivialize and exploit female suffering as a way to ratchet up the emotional or sexual stakes for the player.

Outhouse Editor

More from the video wrote:Of course, if you look at any of these games in isolation, you will be able to find incidental narrative circumstances that can be used to explain away the inclusion of violence against women as a plot device. But just because a particular event might “makes sense” within the internal logic of a fictional narrative – that doesn’t, in and of itself justify its use. Games don’t exist in a vacuum and therefore can’t be divorced from the larger cultural context of the real world.

It’s especially troubling in-light of the serious real life epidemic of violence against women facing the female population on this planet. Every 9 seconds a woman is assaulted or beaten in the United States and on average more than three women are murdered by their boyfriends husbands, or ex-partners every single day. Research consistently shows that people of all genders tend to buy into the myth that women are the ones to blame for the violence men perpetrate against them. In the same vein, abusive men consistently state that their female targets “deserved it”, “wanted it” or were “asking for it”,

Given the reality of that larger cultural context, it should go without saying that it’s dangerously irresponsible to be creating games in which players are encouraged and even required to perform violence against women in order to “save them”.

Even though most of the games we’re talking about don’t explicitly condone violence against women, nevertheless they trivialize and exploit female suffering as a way to ratchet up the emotional or sexual stakes for the player.

rubber spoon

Sarkeesian should speak out on the woman presenting this blog.... she is clearly written as a victim, begging for help... and she is so poorly written, pretty much just a one-dimensional talking head, asking for rescue in the form of money and support. Clearly this must be stopped.

Really though... I think the best way to stop the problem she is complaining about, is just stop putting women in video games altogether...

rubber spoon

Sarkeesian should speak out on the woman presenting this blog.... she is clearly written as a victim, begging for help... and she is so poorly written, pretty much just a one-dimensional talking head, asking for rescue in the form of money and support. Clearly this must be stopped.

Really though... I think the best way to stop the problem she is complaining about, is just stop putting women in video games altogether...

Rain Partier

Okay one point in that video annoyed me and that was her using Resident Evil 5 as an example of her point. Just makes her look ignorant to that franchise.

Not sure what point she is trying to make though. Does highlighting video games that have never and will never be marketed towards women do anything other than get people upset over mole hills.

I mean if she wants to say that a game like mario pushes old stereotypes (which I don't really agree with) that's fine as that game is marketed to basically everyone. But what she is doing here is like turning on MTV's spring break and complaining about women in bikini's.

Rain Partier

Okay one point in that video annoyed me and that was her using Resident Evil 5 as an example of her point. Just makes her look ignorant to that franchise.

Not sure what point she is trying to make though. Does highlighting video games that have never and will never be marketed towards women do anything other than get people upset over mole hills.

I mean if she wants to say that a game like mario pushes old stereotypes (which I don't really agree with) that's fine as that game is marketed to basically everyone. But what she is doing here is like turning on MTV's spring break and complaining about women in bikini's.

Outhouse Editor

Perhaps one of the industry’s most successful curators of powerful female protagonists, Rhianna Pratchett, says that assertions made in the latest Feminist Frequency video series, Tropes vs Women in Games, are “innacurate”. The series, which has come in for measured criticism married with zealous vitriol in recent months, aired its second episode on YouTube recently and explores the position of female characters in videogames from the dark ages through to the present.

Posting on Twitter today, Pratchett said, “I’m a fan of @femfreq but writers are accused of doing the damseling twice in the first 5mins of the latest episode. This is inaccurate.” Comments in the early part of Anita Sarkeesian’s video include: “Remember that as a trope, the damsel in distress is a plot device used by writers and not necessarily always just a one-dimensional character type, entirely defined by victimhood.” Pratchett’s Twitter posts appear to relate to the inclusion of the word ‘writers’, clarified by further remarks made in response to questions from Pratchett’s Twitter followers. “There’s an assumption that games, like other entertainment mediums, start with the script/writers/story,” she said.

As you might expect, the initial comment brought with it plenty of responses from some of Pratchett’s handsome Twitter following. In response to one Twitter author’s comment explaining that some developer don’t see a problem – and pointing out that Feminist Frequency videos are necessary in maintaining awareness of issues relating to women in the games industry – Pratchett replied, “Agreed. I’d just like to see more ‘& here’s why’ + possible solutions covered in each vid, rather than left until later.”

Replying to a comment from Paste Magazine columnist, Maddy Myers, saying “…she talks about why that might be. Before that it’s almost entirely examples (to show the trend, I assume?),” Pratchett replied, “I’d just like to see more of that though. I hope she’ll draw upon the recent stories about publisher attitudes to female protags.”

At the time of publishing, Pratchett has both prefaced and concluded her comments by reminding fans that she is a “fan” of Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency series, although she suggested that “developers” might have been a word that could have been chosen to replace ‘writers’ in the latest episode’s prologue.

In further dialogue with her followers, Pratchett suggested that “Blaming the writers suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of games development,” and that “narrative is not always dictated by the person who writes the ‘word bits’. Gameplay dictates a lot of story.”

Outhouse Editor

Perhaps one of the industry’s most successful curators of powerful female protagonists, Rhianna Pratchett, says that assertions made in the latest Feminist Frequency video series, Tropes vs Women in Games, are “innacurate”. The series, which has come in for measured criticism married with zealous vitriol in recent months, aired its second episode on YouTube recently and explores the position of female characters in videogames from the dark ages through to the present.

Posting on Twitter today, Pratchett said, “I’m a fan of @femfreq but writers are accused of doing the damseling twice in the first 5mins of the latest episode. This is inaccurate.” Comments in the early part of Anita Sarkeesian’s video include: “Remember that as a trope, the damsel in distress is a plot device used by writers and not necessarily always just a one-dimensional character type, entirely defined by victimhood.” Pratchett’s Twitter posts appear to relate to the inclusion of the word ‘writers’, clarified by further remarks made in response to questions from Pratchett’s Twitter followers. “There’s an assumption that games, like other entertainment mediums, start with the script/writers/story,” she said.

As you might expect, the initial comment brought with it plenty of responses from some of Pratchett’s handsome Twitter following. In response to one Twitter author’s comment explaining that some developer don’t see a problem – and pointing out that Feminist Frequency videos are necessary in maintaining awareness of issues relating to women in the games industry – Pratchett replied, “Agreed. I’d just like to see more ‘& here’s why’ + possible solutions covered in each vid, rather than left until later.”

Replying to a comment from Paste Magazine columnist, Maddy Myers, saying “…she talks about why that might be. Before that it’s almost entirely examples (to show the trend, I assume?),” Pratchett replied, “I’d just like to see more of that though. I hope she’ll draw upon the recent stories about publisher attitudes to female protags.”

At the time of publishing, Pratchett has both prefaced and concluded her comments by reminding fans that she is a “fan” of Anita Sarkeesian’s Feminist Frequency series, although she suggested that “developers” might have been a word that could have been chosen to replace ‘writers’ in the latest episode’s prologue.

In further dialogue with her followers, Pratchett suggested that “Blaming the writers suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of games development,” and that “narrative is not always dictated by the person who writes the ‘word bits’. Gameplay dictates a lot of story.”

Outhouse Editor

Rockman wrote:Actually I thought that game looked great I'd totally play it.

I was just laughing at the Super Princess Peach thing, her powers are hilarious. I don't see how you can pick at that and ignore all the other ludicrous things in the franchise.

The story reminds me of Princeless and Snarked. It just seems odd that the proposed character is one with the average skills of a normal person, until they decide enough is enough. The scenario reeks more of message taking precedence over narrative.

Outhouse Editor

Rockman wrote:Actually I thought that game looked great I'd totally play it.

I was just laughing at the Super Princess Peach thing, her powers are hilarious. I don't see how you can pick at that and ignore all the other ludicrous things in the franchise.

The story reminds me of Princeless and Snarked. It just seems odd that the proposed character is one with the average skills of a normal person, until they decide enough is enough. The scenario reeks more of message taking precedence over narrative.