Shakin_Haitian:They're being cured with weed that's been bred to the point of it not being the weed everyone else wants. They've bred it to get rid of THC and increase other cannabinoids.

It'll become a pill soon enough.

Simple fact- they are being cured without and despite big pharma. Sure there might be a pill some day, but what this is showing us is that you don't always need a big pharma solution, and in fact, big pharma sometimes has no solution. (although that doesn't stop them from selling you something they claim is a solution).

Rex Kramer - Danger Seeker:Jim_Callahan: 4.5 joints every single day over that period.This is far outside the realm of normal, moderate use.

Um... I don't know anyone that smokes marijuana at all in any real sense that doesn't smoke something on the order of this amount and frequency. Probably not every single day, but easily 5 or so in a sitting and 3 to 5 days a week, which is sort of that ballpark.

Five joints in one sitting? That's a pretty crazy amount. Basically on par with a hard-core alcoholic who drinks a quart of liquor a day. Your friends are the exception, not the norm.

That shiat is herbal medicine aka barely works, while targeted pills farking work. Pharmaceutical companies would just isolate the active ingredients that would heal whatever aliment you need healed without getting you high. The vast majority of reasonable people don't want medicine to get them high because they have a lot of responsibilities they need to be clear headed for.

Wrong. Marinol does not work.

Because THC only gets you high. There are other cannabinoids in there that work as medicine.

CBD

Is it just CBD, though? I'm not aware of any studies that have used just isolated CBD.

Probably not, but CBD is the other component most used medically. I've read some strains have been developed for increased CBD specifically to be medically efficacious. I was just adding to your comment.

There are more than just THC and CBD. Lots more. Which is why single type pills are bullshiat. Peoples chemistry is unique to them, one size fits all solutions end up serving no one except the pharma provider.

I've always been on the look for strains that will help me with my particular set of issues. Thought I was close at one point, but had to close up shop and move and alas, no more good genetics or clones. What will help me won't sell well either...

So a plant with varying concentrations of varying drugs varying by plant is better than a few pills with known concentrations which you can target specifically by mg/kg for the individual?

Until you can isolate the several hundred types of active ingredients and tailor a pill just for me? I'll take the plant thanks.

Probably still would, even if there was such a magical pill. I consuming the fruits of my own labors, it is quite rewarding.

Patients were assigned randomly to groups given cannabis, twice daily, in the form of cigarettes containing 115 mg of Δ9-tetrahydrocannabinol (THC) or placebo containing cannabis flowers from which the THC had been extracted. Disease activity and laboratory tests were assessed during 8 weeks of treatment and 2 weeks thereafter.RESULTS:Complete remission (CDAI score, <150) was achieved by 5 of 11 subjects in the cannabis group (45%) and 1 of 10 in the placebo group (10%; P = .43). A clinical response (decrease in CDAI score of >100) was observed in 10 of 11 subjects in the cannabis group (90%; from 330 ± 105 to 152 ± 109) and 4 of 10 in the placebo group (40%; from 373 ± 94 to 306 ± 143; P = .028). Three patients in the cannabis group were weaned from steroid dependency. Subjects receiving cannabis reported improved appetite and sleep, with no significant side effects.

What was the concentration of other cannabinoids? That study isn't good enough because there are too many confounding variables i.e. the concentrations of other cannabinoids in the cannabis they were using. I don't know enough about the chemistry, but I imagine that the similarities between cannabinoids is close enough that you can't extract just THC from the plant.

Shakin_Haitian:Itstoearly: durbnpoisn: I just posted something about this in the last pot thread.

But I will say this much again.

Alcohol and cigarrettes are danagerous, contribute to violence and disease. Both are perfectly legal, and enthusiastically advertised.Pot is safe, healthy, and has medicinal purposes that no other drug can accomplish. It's never been shown to cause violence (quite the opposite). The plant is also useful as raw materials for fuels that could replace fossil fuels, clothes, and paper, among rather a lot else.

But pot is illegal.

The whole system is backward and farked up.

How do cigarettes contribute to violence?

You ever quit a tobacco product? Ho lee sheeee iiitt, it's horrible. I could see more impulsive people punch someone while nicking if that person was being annoying.

Funnily enough, nicotine by itself is easy to stop using. I can stop using my e-cig for days and weeks without feeling like I need it. Tobacco, no. I needed that more than I needed food.

A government and it's "constituents" will criminalize and regulate any resource which the average person can make for themselves. The economy and many industries require the ability to be the source for certain products. In the case of intoxicants, this includes liquor and tobacco. There is a reason that it is illegal in most place to grow your own tobacco or make your own booze. It's not because the government is trying to protect you, it's working to protect the companies that they are friendly with.

groppet:I dont smoke but at this point it looks like it is useless to stop legalization. I get tired of the same lame excuses from the DEA and police & family groups. Just wish they made a strain that would get my roomate off the couch and get a job.

Get that layabout an equatorial Sativa (high THC/low CBD), that'll move him (they stopped selling Magnesium Pemolate so - can't make much headway on dumb).

Didn't run into any Indicas until the early `80's (grew nothing but Santa Marta `Rainbow'). Friends started mentioning `fat girl' dope. As it was the dawn of hip-hop I didn't think much about it. Someone had some of this with them and I imbibed - farking disgusting slow heavy farking lethargy of body and mind - yeah, `fat (fill in sex)' someones sitting with the ice cream melting on their chests. Won't even go near a hybrid.

BeerGraduate:Growing your own cannabis is not impractical,tobacco on the other hand is, relatively.

"But.. smoking tobacco is just like putting babies on spikes and destroys the planet and makes baby Jesus cry. Weed, OTOH, is like, totally good for you and enlightening and, and.. wait... hang on.. sh*t. *giggle*"

MadHatter500:durbnpoisn: Another thing that pisses me off about this... Here in NJ, they finally legalized medical maryJ. But the gov't put every goddamn block possible in place to make it impossible for it to be implemented.

So it's legal for people who need it to get it. It's just not possible.

Someone needs to bonk the entire legislature over the head for that one!

I think you are missing the correct target. He's hard to miss, so I'm guessing you had to try on that one.

But I will entertain your point this far... Christie got himself elected on the promise that he would do what the people wanted. And in the beginning that was true. He stood up against the legeslature to push things through BECAUSE the people wanted things done. And it was good. Good to finally see a governor that could get shiat done.However... Somewhere along the line he totally changed his tune. Because when it came to TWO huge issues - gay marriage and pot - he totally flopped his position. Because HE doesn't agree with those things being legal, he is doing every farking thing he can to prevent them from being legal.

And that's farked up. Evidently, he is willing to do what the people want. But only if it's what HE agrees with.

Henry Ford's first Model-T was built to run on hemp gasoline and the CAR ITSELF WAS CONSTRUCTED FROM HEMP! On his large estate, Ford was photographed among his hemp fields. The car, 'grown from the soil,' had hemp plastic panels whose impact strength was 10 times stronger than steel; Popular Mechanics, 1941.

http://www.illuminati-news.com/marijuana-conspiracy.htm

Illuminati-news? Really? I mean there HAS to be better sources than Illuminati-news.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm sure Tipper Gore agrees with the "Rock'n' Roll and Mind Control" page, and I have no doubt the book advertised as such is too legit to quit:

"This is a true story. Bill Schnoebelen has been high up in the hierarchy of almost EVERY prominent secret society, and been deeply involved in the darkest of the darkest of the occult. He once was a true Satanist and a REAL vampire, totally addicted to blood, until he managed to break out about 20 years ago ."

Crazy Lee:groppet: I dont smoke but at this point it looks like it is useless to stop legalization. I get tired of the same lame excuses from the DEA and police & family groups. Just wish they made a strain that would get my roomate off the couch and get a job.

Get that layabout an equatorial Sativa (high THC/low CBD), that'll move him (they stopped selling Magnesium Pemolate so - can't make much headway on dumb).

Didn't run into any Indicas until the early `80's (grew nothing but Santa Marta `Rainbow'). Friends started mentioning `fat girl' dope. As it was the dawn of hip-hop I didn't think much about it. Someone had some of this with them and I imbibed - farking disgusting slow heavy farking lethargy of body and mind - yeah, `fat (fill in sex)' someones sitting with the ice cream melting on their chests. Won't even go near a hybrid.

/to each their own

Yup. Sativas are what I need. And no one grows them because 12-16 weeks in flower ain't "profitable." And jesus fark they get ropey indoors even with 2 under 2600w.

H31N0US:Huh? That focused on alcohol and prescription drugs. Tobacco can kill though. It just takes a while.

No, I get what he was saying, and in that he was right. But arguing that you can't overdose on it doesn't make it harmless either. There are better arguments in favor of legalization to be made, especially with the political hard-on people have for cigarettes these days.

There is a guy named Norville I work with that seems to be constantly high. He is stoned when he gets to work and probably is getting high somewhere off camera when he's at work. He even brings his great dane who seems to be high from secondhand smoke to work with him. He disappears with his dog all the time and causes all kind of trouble for us. He's balanced though by this really smart girl who literally carry's him, and even bribes them to get their work with snacks. It's pretty pathetic to watch actually she should just hang him out to dry.

I'd quit if it weren't for this other chick that is pretty hot but dumb as a sack of potatoes. I suppose it's not all bad I get to drive the company van and we get to work for some moderately famous people from time to time.

Everybody is just trying to get back to childhood when everything was new and wonderful and amazing and the filters were off and the planet offered something interesting and enlightening every day. That's what all this stuff we smoke, drink, inject and snort is about. We wanna go back to having the world do our thinking for us. And I'm sort of fine with that, but that's a dangerous state of mind to be in in a world we've f*cked up this badly. Let me know when booze and dope are begging in the open market because everybody is busy being happy as an adult. In the mean time, hemp is an amazing resource and we should grow it like... weeds.

GoldSpider:H31N0US: Huh? That focused on alcohol and prescription drugs. Tobacco can kill though. It just takes a while.

No, I get what he was saying, and in that he was right. But arguing that you can't overdose on it doesn't make it harmless either. There are better arguments in favor of legalization to be made, especially with the political hard-on people have for cigarettes these days.

Not for nuthin, but "overdose" is probably not the only thing people should be thinking about in terms of being harmful in nature.

There is a guy named Norville I work with that seems to be constantly high. He is stoned when he gets to work and probably is getting high somewhere off camera when he's at work. He even brings his great dane who seems to be high from secondhand smoke to work with him. He disappears with his dog all the time and causes all kind of trouble for us. He's balanced though by this really smart girl who literally carry's him, and even bribes them to get their work with snacks. It's pretty pathetic to watch actually she should just hang him out to dry.

I'd quit if it weren't for this other chick that is pretty hot but dumb as a sack of potatoes. I suppose it's not all bad I get to drive the company van and we get to work for some moderately famous people from time to time.

Pretty much that or butts out of the ashtray. It doesn't take much, and the people that are dumb enough to do that are usually pretty small, so it takes even less. However, even if you're an adult (or adult-sized teen, where this usually happens) who hasn't developed a tolerance, and you don't have much experience to gauge your intake with, it's very easy to smoke yourself to the point of nausea and vomiting.

Pretty much that or butts out of the ashtray. It doesn't take much, and the people that are dumb enough to do that are usually pretty small, so it takes even less. However, even if you're an adult (or adult-sized teen, where this usually happens) who hasn't developed a tolerance, and you don't have much experience to gauge your intake with, it's very easy to smoke yourself to the point of nausea and vomiting.

That reminded me of the first time I tried chewing tobacco. Swallowed a bit and turned green and puked. Good* times.

Admittedly, our their supply isn't the strongest shiat around, and maybe your people roll gigantic goddamned cigars that last forever, but we they treat it about like roll-your own cigarettes, you make one or two an hour over the course of the evening and just keep going at a low level.

I do live with fairly young people, but since that's the actual group in question (people potentially vulnerable to brain-development shiat) that sort of strengthens the paper's case more than it weakens it if that's the source of selection bias. It wouldn't be unusual if it does trend that way, younger people tend to drink slowly and constantly every night when they can get their hands on alcohol, too, or binge if they can't usually.

My main objection here is that you don't get to cite a voluntary-answer survey with no verification to counter an actual medical research study. Not even a proof-of-concept scale one:

GoldSpider:busy chillin': That reminded me of the first time I tried chewing tobacco. Swallowed a bit and turned green and puked. Good* times.

*bad

Want to make sure kids never dip? Make them drink from a spitter, which they inevitably will do later in live, thinking they're reaching for their beer.

I remember when I was a junior in high school and one of my friends offered me and another guy a pinch. We both tried it. I didn't swallow the crap and enjoyed the buzz. He swallowed and puked almost immediately.

10 years later I'm still dipping and he hasn't touched the stuff. I really wish I would've puked. It's a terrible habit.

Psylence:Crazy Lee: groppet: I dont smoke but at this point it looks like it is useless to stop legalization. I get tired of the same lame excuses from the DEA and police & family groups. Just wish they made a strain that would get my roomate off the couch and get a job.

Get that layabout an equatorial Sativa (high THC/low CBD), that'll move him (they stopped selling Magnesium Pemolate so - can't make much headway on dumb).

Didn't run into any Indicas until the early `80's (grew nothing but Santa Marta `Rainbow'). Friends started mentioning `fat girl' dope. As it was the dawn of hip-hop I didn't think much about it. Someone had some of this with them and I imbibed - farking disgusting slow heavy farking lethargy of body and mind - yeah, `fat (fill in sex)' someones sitting with the ice cream melting on their chests. Won't even go near a hybrid.

/to each their own

Yup. Sativas are what I need. And no one grows them because 12-16 weeks in flower ain't "profitable." And jesus fark they get ropey indoors even with 2 under 2600w.

Oh, start with a Sativa cultivar that expesses an `activity' sufficient to one's desire, with the second set of plate leaves (should be able to toss a single plate in the microwave for a few seconds - take one puff & assess - not up snuff? Try another cultivar. Have had a bank of 6 48" GE Sunlight fluorescents, for decades (now serving more prosaic duty as a winter SAD limiting device). One can keep those lights right down on top of the plants and they won't waste growth on stems. A good cultivar? Who needs buds to smoke (and they will seed under fluorescents,. with no loss of potency in succeeding generation (outdoor grows at higher latitudes? Down goes potency by generation). If one is shooting for weed porn then burn that electricity night & day with halides. If one is only vaping a couple of leaves a day, from 12 plants after 8wks and they just keep growing? Pretty cheap medicine.Typical (no dope) winter grow with 6 GE sunlight Ecolux ($30.00 for 3 used shop light fixtures/$60 for lights/$10 a month electricity - 16hr day).

Jim_Callahan:4.5 joints every single day over that period.This is far outside the realm of normal, moderate use.

Um... I don't know anyone that smokes marijuana at all in any real sense that doesn't smoke something on the order of this amount and frequency. Probably not every single day, but easily 5 or so in a sitting and 3 to 5 days a week, which is sort of that ballpark.

This reeks of the "it's only the pack a day smokers" bullshiat excuse tobacco smokers always pull out, as if anyone that smokes regularly doesn't go through a significant portion of a pack in a day. The fact that the only way they could pull the average down was to average in the people that only have the occasional hit at a party sort of highlights that they're making excuses (tobacco apologism loves to do that too, throw in the people that have a cigarette once in a while to be social to skew the statistics).

// The fact that their 'counter-argument' is a self-reported survey in the first place isn't doing them any favors either.// Other than pointing out that the 40% alcohol involvement in crashes number is a result of systemic falsification often encoded into local laws rather than a real statistic (such as any crash after 2am being listed as Alcohol-involved evidence regardless, which is literally the law in, somewhat strangely, most dry counties), I don't have a problem with their numbers. Figured I'd point out the bit of glaring stupid, though, since agreeing with things is lame and boring.

For the 2 AM crash thing, could you cite your source? I couldnt find mention of that in a quick mobile googling. But I thought alcohol-involved crashes had a hugely different effect on the record and insurance rates, and claiming it involves alcohol by default would be falsification of evidence in my opinion. It would also discriminate against people who work the late shifts. I wouldnt put it past some governments to try to do this, but there's just too much leggal baggage to get it through.

Carn:Shakin_Haitian: Well, yeah, plants absorb shiat from the soil. You still have to get rid of the plant once it's absorbed shiat or the plant dies, decomposes, and the shiat goes back into the soil.

I'm no horticulturist, but I believe part of the "phytoremediation" process is that some of the heavy metals and radiation are used up by the plant. So maybe there were 1000ppm of whatever in the soil and the plant eats .5% of it. Compost the plants, rinse repeat. After many generations, soil is clean. Even if you cannot remove the contaminants completely, removing them from the ground gets them out of the water supply as well.

http://sc.water.usgs.gov/projects/phytoremediation/

Help me understand the implication of this, please.If pot is legalized, then it will be possible to selectively grow the plants that clean the ground the best. At the very least, the people growing in a fallout area would selectively breed as part of their strategy. So, the pollutant removal rate could be increased. Cool.But, all the plants absorb some amount, which means the smokable ones have some of the bad stuff in them too. Would that then get to humans, or is it only stored in the parts that are not consumed?

Also, i think plants actually get almost all their nutrients from the air, not the ground. Otherwise, every tree would sit in a big hole with a volume equal to that of the tree. But maybe this is why the absorption rate is so slow.

Nearly 200 comments, and nobody seems to have pointed out that the ONDCP isn't legally authorized to put out any information, including empirical research, that is pro-marijuana. Of course they have to cherry pick the facts!

Chris45215:Carn: Shakin_Haitian: Well, yeah, plants absorb shiat from the soil. You still have to get rid of the plant once it's absorbed shiat or the plant dies, decomposes, and the shiat goes back into the soil.

I'm no horticulturist, but I believe part of the "phytoremediation" process is that some of the heavy metals and radiation are used up by the plant. So maybe there were 1000ppm of whatever in the soil and the plant eats .5% of it. Compost the plants, rinse repeat. After many generations, soil is clean. Even if you cannot remove the contaminants completely, removing them from the ground gets them out of the water supply as well.

http://sc.water.usgs.gov/projects/phytoremediation/

Help me understand the implication of this, please.If pot is legalized, then it will be possible to selectively grow the plants that clean the ground the best. At the very least, the people growing in a fallout area would selectively breed as part of their strategy. So, the pollutant removal rate could be increased. Cool.But, all the plants absorb some amount, which means the smokable ones have some of the bad stuff in them too. Would that then get to humans, or is it only stored in the parts that are not consumed?

Also, i think plants actually get almost all their nutrients from the air, not the ground. Otherwise, every tree would sit in a big hole with a volume equal to that of the tree. But maybe this is why the absorption rate is so slow.

Plants get a good chunk of their nutrition from the soil. They cannot absorb phosphorus or potassium or iron or magnesium or calcium from the air. I don't know of many that can absorb nitrogen out of the air either, and need it "fixed" in the soil by soil bacterium. You can even see little bacteria "houses" on some nitrogen fixing plants

Also, soil is not a zero sum game. Trees grow, sheds leaves, leaves add some of those nutrients back to the soil.

Animals pee on and around the tree. Insects and other animals defecate as well as can die around the tree, all the while adding nutrients to the soil.

ds615:It doesn't matter.They could say they don't want to legalize it because it causes people to spontaneously explode, and it wouldn't matter.It's illegal.Get over it. Grow up. Get a job. Be useful.

"it's illegal because it's bad for you...it's bad for you because it's illegal..."

It's going to be legal, get over it.

And relax, pretty much everyone who wants to get high has been doing so already - prohibition has been a dismal failure and costs the US 7 billion bucks a year just for Cannabis. Would work just as well to pile up cash and set it on fire.