Trouble logging in?If you can't remember your password or are having trouble logging in, you will have to reset your password. If you have trouble resetting your password (for example, if you lost access to the original email address), please do not start posting with a new account, as this is against the forum rules. If you create a temporary account, please contact us right away via Forum Support, and send us any information you can about your original account, such as the account name and any email address that may have been associated with it.

"Your «Silver» included, the metallic colors are very rare, it is a strong color type. It has resistance against cutting, piercing, heat and poison attacks, and attack strength when using it’s hard metallic body for close combat is not low. But of course it has weaknesses. Corrosion attacks are it’s natural enemy, and it is also weak against blunt attacks."

So it seems that Silver is a <<Close Combat Direct Attack>> type after all. Each of the metal colors might have an associated attack strategy as well as defense strategy.

That's one way of interpreting what she said. However, she could also mean that Crow's hard metallic body is simply suited for close combat, but this does not mean that he has to. Silver Crow's main draw is his wings and his speed, not his close combat moves. This is what has been winning him duels ever since he activated them. Even when people found that snipers were a counter, he too countered snipers with his speed by dodging the shots.

Furthermore, if anything, Crow is better suited for long-ranged combat, as Dusk Taker found out when he used his wings in conjunction with the Pyro Dealer armament. After all, blunt damage usually occurs in melee.

A red avatar can fight in close combat if he wants to but this is not recommended as his body type is ill-suited for it. Likewise, a yellow avatar can do the same if the situation calls for it, even though it is a completely different attack type from what he specialises in, as we saw when Radio fought with Lotus.

Quote:

Which only makes sense. The attack strategies of the chromatic colors are also forms of defense, so that they have strategies to apply towards survival as well as victory. But if all the metallic colors can do well is absorb hits, then they would just be green.

Further, all metallic colors have have as many vulnerabilities as resistances. Therefore, they cannot be said to specialize in defense. Rather, it must be said that their defenses are specialized.

Since their resistances have so many exceptional vulnerabilities, just about any enemy can try to exploit at least one. This means metallic avatars cannot rely on defense like Greens, so they also need a specialized method of attack in order to achieve victory.

Correct, but specialising in one method of attack and ONLY one method of attack means opening yourself up to more vulnerabilities. For chromatic avatars, as they do not have any specific vulnerabilities defence-wise, they have to instead be vulnerable to attack types for balance. Taking this into consideration, it would make much more sense for metallic avatars to have flexible attack styles. They may prefer one method of attack, but there would be nothing to stop them from switching if they come up against an avatar that can counter that style of attack easily.

The first time we saw Crow come up against an avatar that could naturally counter his avatar was in his fight against Roller, who specialised in dealing blunt damage. Even Kuroyukihime, with her vast battle experience, could not come up with a plan where Crow could properly defeat Roller. As Crow did not have his wings then and no way to deal long range damage, he had to run. Crow won his subsequent duels against Roller likely because his wings meant Roller would never be able to reach him on his bike. Thus Crow would simply be able to continuously make sweeps at him and then fly to safety.

The second and final time in the anime was with the sniper, which Crow countered by dodging.

What's the point of bringing up these examples, you ask? Well, it is simply to note that there has been no instances that prove my point, but also no instances to disprove it.

Quote:

Conversely, the avatar known as Iron Pound is almost certainly <<Close Combat Direct>>.

I would attribute that more to his Pound name, rather than his colour.

Quote:

In total, this makes all metallic avatars more specialized than any chromatic avatar, since each metallic color is specialized in one particular form of attack AND against various forms of damage.

Quote:

That would make metallic avatars the most powerful avatars in the game, since each of them is double-specialized, and not one of them is an impure "alloy".

Quote:

In practice, his double-specialization is a greater advantage than even a King of Pure Color's single-specialization.

But that would mean we would have the who-knows-how-many Kings of Pure Metal, rather than the Seven Kings of Pure Colour. As such, it would make more sense that this isn't a case of specialization in attack style, merely a preference.

Quote:

Alternatively, the author is simply breaking his own rules. After all, he can't call a vampiric cat "Blood Leopard" if she's blue.

That would be an insult to your own dignity as an author, as it means that your writing lacks proper planning, causing you to contradict yourself. We must trust that Kawahara is accomplished enough of a writer that he would not need to do this. He does have two well-known series under his belt, after all.

Furthermore, there is no actual need for Blood Leopard to be a vampiric cat. The characteristic which Pard is known for is not her vamipric abilities. It's her love for speed.

Quote:

Yet, it is true that Leopard and Taker are, apparently, on the completely opposite side of the chromatic wheel than they should be, and that both are darker shades. There might be a connection that is not readily obvious.

Not only that, but both are the ONLY avatars we have seen so far that are on the completely opposite side of the chromatic wheel than they should be and that both are the ONLY avatars we haven seen so far with darker shades. This means that it is completely reasonable for us to assume that there MUST be a connection.

Quote:

"Yellow Taker" would have looked more comical than ominous. Just look at Sulphur Pot, who needed to ride a gigantic black dragon to look particular threatening. Yellow Radio looks like a clown; if he hadn't appeared in ambush with half his legion, would he have seemed properly intimidating?

Which might explain why Kawahara introduced such a property of avatars with darker shades

On a side note, Radio's colour makes him seem even more threatening to other avatars. His nickname is the "Radioactive Disturber", which is where the Radio part of his name comes from, rather than an actual radio (This is why he doesn't use sonics as his main form of attack). His colour has also been described as the colour of a radiation warning sign.

That's one way of interpreting what she said. However, she could also mean that Crow's hard metallic body is simply suited for close combat, but this does not mean that he has to. Silver Crow's main draw is his wings and his speed, not his close combat moves. This is what has been winning him duels ever since he activated them. Even when people found that snipers were a counter, he too countered snipers with his speed by dodging the shots.

That just means he's an extreme lightweight who has poor toughness in general and not much weight to put behind his blows. Even a pure Blue avatar would be a hit-and-run specialist if they were an extreme lightweight with an emphasis on speed and mobility.

That may be exactly what Sky Raker is. I doubt that an avatar which jets around on a rocket pack is built for mass and muscle power.

Quote:

Furthermore, if anything, Crow is better suited for long-ranged combat, as Dusk Taker found out when he used his wings in conjunction with the Pyro Dealer armament.

And yet, Silver Crow's special move is Headbutt. If the avatar really had any potential for long-range attacks, I think its inherent special move would have been different.

Finally, given how enamoured Haruyuki was with clever victories and First Person Shooting games, and given how effectively he saw Dusk Taker use long-range weapons with his wings, and given his own difficulties with snipers... it's also conspicuous that he hasn't spent any upgrade points on a long-ranged attack at all.

The system may simply not be giving Silver Crow that option. The avatar might not have any potential for long-range attacks at all.

Quote:

After all, blunt damage usually occurs in melee.

Impact damage can also occur as a result of concussive blast waves, as from exploding ordinance. Indeed, considering Silver's resistance to heat, this may be the one thing about missiles that can hurt Crow.

Quote:

chromatic avatars, as they do not have any specific vulnerabilities defence-wise, they have to instead be vulnerable to attack types for balance.

But they're not. None of the three primary colors is vulnerable to either of the others. There's no rock-paper-scissors relationship there.

The odds of victory are decided by the particular form of your enemy's abilities, the distance at which you began the fight from each other, and the particular environment that was randomly generated.

If Blue Knight blindly tries to challenge Scarlet Rain to a duel, he has no idea how close she will be when the match starts. It's in his favor if she happened to be nearby, but if she was at the very edge of the Area, he's fighting an uphill battle.

If Scarlet Rain is looking to challenge someone to a duel, blindly or otherwise, she wants to Accelerate from the highest building in the area. Whatever stage is created, she'll have a good chance of standing on higher ground than her opponent, which usually means an easier time spotting them and a clear line of fire.

As for the stage, just see how the odds of Corral Merrow and Lagoon Dolphin versus Sulphur Pot and Nidhoggr changed completely when the environment became "Underwater". Charcoal Smoke would have been completely useless, so that Yellow ability would have been ineffective.

Quote:

Taking this into consideration, it would make much more sense for metallic avatars to have flexible attack styles. They may prefer one method of attack, but there would be nothing to stop them from switching if they come up against an avatar that can counter that style of attack easily.

Except we have no evidence of this.

Crow's victory against Roller wasn't about advantages, but cleverness. It was a case-in-point that even with the odds stacked against you, fighting smart can win a battle. That flexibility was entirely Haruyuki the gamer and not Silver Crow the speedster.

Silver Crow is built to do nothing but hit-and-run, especially when using flight to dive at the enemy from the sky. His Headbutt is the only move that doesn't fit this fighting style, considering its telegraphed charge-up pose.

As seen with Roller (and later against another opponent), the Headbutt can only be effectively used when Silver Crow is grappling with his opponent. Whichever one is in control, the opponent is unable to dodge.

For the physically weak, ultra-lightweight Silver Crow, a grapple is the worst place to be, because he cannot dodge or escape and the crushing pressure goes right through his toughness. The Headbutt is his last chance desperation attack against someone who manages to get him in that situation.

It's especially desperate, considering that it requires a full Special Meter, which requires a lot of damage to charge up. And that full Meter is spent on a single all-or-nothing attack.

But clearly, the game's idea was that Crow would normally engage in close-range combat, or else he wouldn't get himself into such situations often enough for the Headbutt to be worthwhile.

Quote:

The second and final time in the anime was with the sniper, which Crow countered by dodging.

Which is just the "run" part of "hit-and-run". Silver Crow is a lightweight, and therefore dodges attacks.

Quote:

I would attribute that more to his Pound name, rather than his colour.

I'd be surprised if Iron wasn't resistant to all physical damage, and possible invulnerable to one of them (crushing, piercing, or cutting). If I were designeding a system that included such resistances, I'd give that color some direct-close combat potential to back that up.

I mean, the poor guy's got to be paying for it with weaknesses against electricity, heat, cold, and/or corrosion, and those are likely to come from long-range attacks.

Quote:

But that would mean we would have the who-knows-how-many Kings of Pure Metal, rather than the Seven Kings of Pure Colour.

Metal colors are rare, and the one potential Metal King was destroyed long ago by an alliance of all the other future kings.

I speak of the original Chrome Disaster.

Quote:

That would be an insult to your own dignity as an author, as it means that your writing lacks proper planning, causing you to contradict yourself. We must trust that Kawahara is accomplished enough of a writer that he would not need to do this. He does have two well-known series under his belt, after all.

I've just felt so burned by authors who didn't give a shit about solid backgrounds. Suzuki and Seven Arcs, who produced the Nanoha franchise.

Quote:

Furthermore, there is no actual need for Blood Leopard to be a vampiric cat. The characteristic which Pard is known for is not her vamipric abilities. It's her love for speed.

If her love for speed were really so defining, she'd have something like Blue Knight's "Limit Surpass", which I imagine boosts his strength and speed. She could have a hyper-drive which strains her HP in return for greater horsepower.

She does have a transformation which makes her faster, but that form's crushing bite attack just emphasizes the cannibalism of her vampiric abilities. And the vampiric abilities in and of themselves do nothing to make her faster.

Quote:

Not only that, but both are the ONLY avatars we have seen so far that are on the completely opposite side of the chromatic wheel than they should be and that both are the ONLY avatars we haven seen so far with darker shades. This means that it is completely reasonable for us to assume that there MUST be a connection.

True enough, but I don't see how "fear" is a plausible factor.

I would sooner attribute it to a conflict in the player. For example, some part of Noumi lends itself to Yellow tactics, but another part of Noumi lends itself to direct attacks at variable range.

Maybe the divide was Noumi "as he saw/desired himself" and "as he really was", or Noumi "as he was without trauma" and "as his trauma had shaped him".

For example, I doubt Noumi was born feeling empty and wanting to steal everything to fill his void. He used to be different. But the trauma inflicted by his brother became so deeply ingrained that it became part of who he was, and therefore affected his avatar.

Haruyuki, on the other hand, has a real talent for mental speed as well as a desire to become faster. Rather than his trauma distracting him from his talent, he seems to have used his talent as a shelter. Likewise, Taku stuck with kendo even despite the horrible bullying. He took shelter and strength within his passion.

Noumi took shelter within the trauma itself, and that may be why his avatar was contradictory. Instead of being what he wanted to be, he became a thief.

Perhaps Pard's vampirism and cannibalism don't reflect her real passion, but instead the form of defense she chose against whatever hurt her?

Quote:

Which might explain why Kawahara introduced such a property of avatars with darker shades.

I dunno. Rust Jigsaw seems to be a dark reddish-orange, but he's a proper Orange.

We'll just have to see.

Quote:

On a side note, Radio's colour makes him seem even more threatening to other avatars. His nickname is the "Radioactive Disturber", which is where the Radio part of his name comes from, rather than an actual radio (This is why he doesn't use sonics as his main form of attack). His colour has also been described as the colour of a radiation warning sign.

Suddenly, many things become chillingly clear.

Where do you come by this knowledge? The light novel? I'd like to be able to cite it myself, for others.

On a side note, Radio's colour makes him seem even more threatening to other avatars. His nickname is the "Radioactive Disturber", which is where the Radio part of his name comes from, rather than an actual radio (This is why he doesn't use sonics as his main form of attack). His colour has also been described as the colour of a radiation warning sign.

I can imagine opponents choking to death on poisonous levels of radiation, unable to find their way out to safety because the world is spinning 'round and 'round, while a mad clown dances at the edges of the wheel, mocking them with his capering.

I wonder if irradiation counts as corrosion, against which Silver has no defense? Or disease/poison, against which Silver is strong? Maybe it's both, in which case it makes no difference.

According to a list in the 12th LN, Yellow Radio has the abilties of "Sense of Equilibrium" and "Acrobatics".

Perhaps even Radio can be affected by his own radiation and illusions, and his ability lets him find his way out?

And his acrobatics enhances his ability to dodge attacks without being particularly fast. Combined with the pain and dizziness of his indirect attacks, opponents would find it very difficult to hit him.

But maybe he couldn't use his radiation against the Red King and Black Legion, perhaps because it would affect his own Legion?

I wonder if Fire Cracker Deceit is just a personalized version of IS teleportation, different from Niko's only in terms of visual style?

Finally, given how enamoured Haruyuki was with clever victories and First Person Shooting games, and given how effectively he saw Dusk Taker use long-range weapons with his wings, and given his own difficulties with snipers... it's also conspicuous that he hasn't spent any upgrade points on a long-ranged attack at all.

The system may simply not be giving Silver Crow that option. The avatar might not have any potential for long-range attacks at all.

Quote:

Silver Crow is built to do nothing but hit-and-run, especially when using flight to dive at the enemy from the sky. His Headbutt is the only move that doesn't fit this fighting style, considering its telegraphed charge-up pose.

As seen with Roller (and later against another opponent), the Headbutt can only be effectively used when Silver Crow is grappling with his opponent. Whichever one is in control, the opponent is unable to dodge.

For the physically weak, ultra-lightweight Silver Crow, a grapple is the worst place to be, because he cannot dodge or escape and the crushing pressure goes right through his toughness. The Headbutt is his last chance desperation attack against someone who manages to get him in that situation.

It's especially desperate, considering that it requires a full Special Meter, which requires a lot of damage to charge up. And that full Meter is spent on a single all-or-nothing attack.

But clearly, the game's idea was that Crow would normally engage in close-range combat, or else he wouldn't get himself into such situations often enough for the Headbutt to be worthwhile.

Taking all of these into consideration, we might be forgetting something: what if the avatar's close-ranged combat actually came from Haru's trauma, rather than its colour? After all, if the following:

Quote:

I'd be surprised if Iron wasn't resistant to all physical damage, and possible invulnerable to one of them (crushing, piercing, or cutting). If I were designeding a system that included such resistances, I'd give that color some direct-close combat potential to back that up.

I mean, the poor guy's got to be paying for it with weaknesses against electricity, heat, cold, and/or corrosion, and those are likely to come from long-range attacks.

Is assumed to be true, then the last thing the system should do is force Crow into melee, as that is where his main weaknesses lie.

Quote:

Metal colors are rare, and the one potential Metal King was destroyed long ago by an alliance of all the other future kings.

I speak of the original Chrome Disaster.

And yet, they are common enough that 7 have been identified. 8, if we count in Magnesium Drake, the 2nd Disaster.

Don't forget that all of the kings, save Scarlet Rain, ascended through normal conditions available to any Burst Linker. Thus if it was true that metallic avatars have more potential than the kings themselves, someone like Iron Pound would already be a king. The instant death rule would not be a factor since he would be stronger.

Quote:

If her love for speed were really so defining, she'd have something like Blue Knight's "Limit Surpass", which I imagine boosts his strength and speed. She could have a hyper-drive which strains her HP in return for greater horsepower.

She does have a transformation which makes her faster, but that form's crushing bite attack just emphasizes the cannibalism of her vampiric abilities. And the vampiric abilities in and of themselves do nothing to make her faster.

Well, she is known as a speed demon by many others, including Raker. There has to be a reason for that. Furthermore, we know this also by the way she rides her bike.

Quote:

Noumi took shelter within the trauma itself, and that may be why his avatar was contradictory. Instead of being what he wanted to be, he became a thief.

Quote:

Pard's vampirism and cannibalism don't reflect her real passion

I think we may be on to something here...

Notice how both traumas are about contradiction, and this is reflected on their avatars.

But that would mean that these two being darker shades and also contradictory to their own colours is just a mere coincidence.

Back to square one, I guess.

Quote:

Suddenly, many things become chillingly clear.

Where do you come by this knowledge? The light novel? I'd like to be able to cite it myself, for others.

It details the second King's Summit. I've picked out a few parts which support your thesis on Radio's capabilities.

Quote:

I can imagine opponents choking to death on poisonous levels of radiation, unable to find their way out to safety because the world is spinning 'round and 'round, while a mad clown dances at the edges of the wheel, mocking them with his capering.

Quote:

Just as Haruyuki had perceived this, smoke suddenly rose from the center of the paper doll. Once the breeze of the stage had blown away the smoke, on top of the pillar stood a bright, one might say poisonous, yellow armor-clad battle avatar shaped like a thin jester.

Quote:

Putting his needle-thin fingers on his chin, he continued to let escape contained laughter.
“Kuku, Banana color, now that’s rude. I myself prefer to compare it to uranium, you see? But it can’t be helped, can it? After all, everybody knows monkeys and kiddies like bananas, right? Kukuku…”

My apologies. I had originally been thinking of uranium but in its pure form it is a silvery-white, so I simply assumed that I had made a mistake and googled "yellow radioactive". The caution sign came up so I just went with that.

However, uranium that has been slightly processed is indeed a yellow colour and is aptly named "Yellowcake". Kawahara must have been referring to that.

Is assumed to be true, then the last thing the system should do is force Crow into melee, as that is where his main weaknesses lie.

He's resistant against two-thirds of physical damage types.

But being a lightweight is not necessarily a weakness in close combat; not if one is sufficiently agile. That's what it means to be a hit-and-run specialist.

Lagoon Dolphin seems to be a lightweight*, and has no resistance to piercing or cutting like Silver Crow. Granted, she's also not as much of an extreme case as him either, since she's not balanced around the ability to fly, but Silver Crow is still designed to divebomb rather than snipe.

* This is not entirely reliable. Lime Bell seems to be a lightweight because of her small and thin frame, yet she performs much more like a heavyweight considering her striking power and physical toughness. She's probably heavier than she looks, and suffers from low agility.

Quote:

And yet, they are common enough that 7 have been identified. 8, if we count in Magnesium Drake, the 2nd Disaster.

AND metallic avatars are said to be strong. It's rather odd that everyone calls them strong, yet not one of them has ascended to become a King.

Trilead Tetraoxide is Azure Heir's, holder of the Infinity, nickname. Or it might be his actual avatar name since this was what was used on the avatar colour chart. Yet Azure Heir follows the proper formatting of avatar names.

The name occurs because Trilead Tetraoxide is a crucial ingredient for life-extending alchemic substances, and the same colour as the royal red/yellow for a prince's robes. It is strongly hinted at that Heir is in fact the crown prince of Japan, or at least one of the members of the royal family.

Finally, given how enamoured Haruyuki was with clever victories and First Person Shooting games, and given how effectively he saw Dusk Taker use long-range weapons with his wings, and given his own difficulties with snipers... it's also conspicuous that he hasn't spent any upgrade points on a long-ranged attack at all.

The system may simply not be giving Silver Crow that option. The avatar might not have any potential for long-range attacks at all.

Actually, according to this post in the LN discussion thread, at least at one point Haru had an option for a ranged attack as a level up bonus.

Actually, according to this post in the LN discussion thread, at least at one point Haru had an option for a ranged attack as a level up bonus.

Which means that Crow did indeed had the option for long range but decided it would be better to be more heavily invested in his flight, as my point on specialization being the best way to win fights pointed out, thus making close combat a preference for him, rather than a restriction, thereby supporting my hypothesis that metallic avatars have flexible attack styles.

Does anybody else think that the Seven Arcs are capable of changing their appearance to suit the avatar that is wielding them? Surely it can't just be a coincidence that the Impulse just happens to be blue, the Strife green and the Tempest purple, right?

Furthermore, this is the description of the Tempest in volume 6:

Quote:

In her right hand, she held a staff with about one and a half meters. In its tip, a rose vine with a slightly longer needle shined.

And this is how Thorn's appearance is described:

Quote:

Unmistakably, it was the most, shall we say luscious duel avatar he had ever seen. However, it was not the type of beauty you felt like stretching your hand to touch. Because starting from the tiara in her head, and on every part of her body, were rose shaped ornaments crowned with gleaming, sharp thorns.

As you can see, the motif of her avatar is on roses and thorns. Surely then, it can't be a mere coincidence that the Tempest too has a similar motif for its top?

The Destiny, in its Disaster form, while changing shape did keep the colour of its original master though. Perhaps this was due to it being a corruption of the Destiny and not its pure form?

I feel sure that the Seven Arcs change shape to match the user, as the Armor of Catatrophe did. But not necessarily color.

Is not a broadsword a Blue-type weapon? Wouldn't a shield generally be Green, and a gun Red? The Mystic Reins are not yellow, but its stat page features a prominent Yellow circle, and it was being used by (and possibly originated from) a Yellow avatar.

Bringing up the healing avatar who removed herself from the game made me wonder something...

Orchid Oracle... what if SHE was that healer? Something screwy was going on, given the way she was able to return to the Accelerated World despite apparently having been deleted from it.

What if she was never deleted? What if she used an Incarnate System trick to fake her death, such that the system treats her as deleted, except for when she subconsciously decides to return?

Also, whatever color "Orchid" is supposed to be (Oracle is pink, white and yellow, and the flower is any number of colors), Paradigm Revolution is definitely a Yellow power. Volume 12 also names another power she has, which seems to be an illusion-based ability. So it's easily possible that her high-level abilities could include an indirect tactic like healing others.

But the point is that her color seems close to White. And the one Burst Linker Kuroyukihime hates most is one of the other rare healers in the game.

White Cosmos has the power to heal; presumably, to heal both herself and other avatars. This helps explain how she could make it as far as Level 9 without offensive abilities.

It still doesn't explain why she's White, as opposed to Greenish-Yellow like Lime Bell.

This White thing, I have an alternative explanation: that they deal indirectly by affecting the stage, environment, and other burst linkers. Recall Radio's Silly Go Round, that could have simply had the same effect as rotating the victim's perspective round and round, but Haru and co. were unlucky enough to be in a deep crater when that happened.

I feel sure that the Seven Arcs change shape to match the user, as the Armor of Catatrophe did. But not necessarily color.

Is not a broadsword a Blue-type weapon? Wouldn't a shield generally be Green, and a gun Red? The Mystic Reins are not yellow, but its stat page features a prominent Yellow circle, and it was being used by (and possibly originated from) a Yellow avatar.

There isn't anything to prove otherwise, is there? We do know armaments keep a colour and we know Crow's wings were a skill of his avatar instead of an armament, which when stolen took on the colour of its current master.

I think it's more about reflecting the nature of it's owner. Crow's wings resembled devil wings while in taker's posession. Also, the light novels had Noumi saying a comment about his tentacles that 'The previous owner said it was from a starfish.' It's true there are differences between the LN and anime, but the colour saturation of Noumi's tentacles seem darker than I'd assume.

With only 4 pieces of equipment to go on from here, i don't think we can have a definite answer though.