No doubt kids are a different animal. There's a reason I have no plans on having any.

And yeah, this is why I was so impressed by the Browns lakefront development plans. Somebody needs to do something there, it's a damn joke the city has been developed as it has.

It's almost like someone tried to bungle our waterfront as badly as possible.

"To really screw things up, we need to put several places on the lakefront whose location literally would not matter Downtown....how about a private airport, a science museum, the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, a closed in NFL stadium, a shipyard, and two government office buildings!! We can also add some Section 8 housing projects but that might be too obvious. Let's save those for Ohio City and Tremont."

"Well then I guess there's only one thing left to do...win the whole, f***in', thing."- Jake Taylor

Kingpin74 wrote:My only point (and it's a tired one) is that I get annoyed by the national meme that it's so crappy here. Is it just a legitimate opinion from the 70's and 80's that lazily survived today? I just meant that there are other similar cities that you never hear too much about because they're kept in context.

And Pittsburgh is very nice and seems to be considered as such nationally. But I think that beyond a much better showcasing of their waterfront, it's a pretty comparable place to here when you get down to it (non-glamorous but functional downtown, cold weather, nice suburbs, great people, etc.)

To be fair, a lot of places probably never think of Cleveland ever. It's like when you're in school and something embarrassing happens to you and you think everyone knows about it. But then no one notices until you start talking about it.

And every city has stupid stereotypes. There are plenty of people, possibly right here on this board, who think New York is still super dangerous and gritty.

There are shitty parts of every city and nice parts of every city. With the advent of draconian DUI laws it's pretty hard to get a downtown vibe going without excellent public transportation (see New York, Chicago, San Fran, Boston, Washington, Portland, Seattle) In Los Angeles, development of our downtown scene blew up just after our subway system was built (though stupidly they shut down the line at 1:00am - one hour before bars close. *facepalm). Most sane people who go out to enjoy nightlife like to do so near home or not have to drive.

/also not saying draconian DUI laws are bad, just a fact.//In Cali, you might as well just go ahead and shoot yerself if you get caught.

Ehhhh.... I'm not into big city life at all. Too crowded and too noisy. I like peace and quiet, not listening to some dickface argue with his girlfriend in another language. I don't want to hear honking horns and car alarms that go off when the wind blows hard.

I'm not even really than fond of the suburbs. The farther I am away from people I don't know, the better. I may be mildly Agoraphobic, but I like going to sports games and don't mind crowded bars or concerts. The idea of having to walk down a packed NYC sidewalk makes my head hurt. I'd need a cattle prod.

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ehhhh.... I'm not into big city life at all. Too crowded and too noisy. I like peace and quiet, not listening to some dickface argue with his girlfriend in another language. I don't want to hear honking horns and car alarms that go off when the wind blows hard.

I'm not even really than fond of the suburbs. The farther I am away from people I don't know, the better. I may be mildly Agoraphobic, but I like going to sports games and don't mind crowded bars or concerts. The idea of having to walk down a packed NYC sidewalk makes my head hurt. I'd need a cattle prod.

Agree completely. I was in NYC a couple weeks ago for work, and had to stay in Times Square. If I didn't have agoraphobia before, I sure do now. I honestly don't understand how many people can physically occupy the same space at the same time like that.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Kingpin74 wrote:I live in the suburbs so I might be the wrong person to opine on this subject. I just think the swipes at our downtown are overblown. We have pretty much any entertainment option you would want (aside from a hardcore clubbing or live music scene, which I couldn't care less about), the restaurants are really good and stand up nationally, and it's as safe in the popular areas as most comparable cities. I mean, how many really thriving downtowns are there in America right now? Probably no more than 15.

There are literally 2 streets to hang out in downtown. West 6th and East 4th, everything else is D-E-A-D. The Gateway area is busy on game mights but that's it. Excellent restaurants like One Walnut close b/c there is no other businesses/bars in the area to attract people. There's no other reason to go downtown other than to eat or go to the bar. No retail spots to bring people down earlier in the day. That's a big reason why people aren't living downtown, no retail, no place to buy groceries, no real public transportation, etc. Most thriving downtown cities are spread out throughout the city, not concentrated on one or two areas.

The lakefront is totally underdeveloped. When the Rock Hall and Science Museum went up so should have retail and entertainment. It's a shame that people visit the Rock Hall then go looking for someplace to eat and wind up eating at the Food Court in the Galleria. No one had the vision to maybe include a Hard Rock Cafe next to the Rock Hall. Instead it's dying a slow death as one of the anchors of The Tower City dollar Mall. Hell, they could've kept Captain Franks going down there.

Galley Boys are slop on top of a so-so burger and a bun you coulde get from a Covneninet food mart generic pack. They the Antoine Joubert of burgers; soft, sloppy, oozing grease and cheap sauce and extremely overrated by a biased fan base. Proof that if you throw enough cheap sauce shit on a burger you still can't overcome the lame burger. -JB

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ehhhh.... I'm not into big city life at all. Too crowded and too noisy. I like peace and quiet, not listening to some dickface argue with his girlfriend in another language. I don't want to hear honking horns and car alarms that go off when the wind blows hard.

I'm not even really than fond of the suburbs. The farther I am away from people I don't know, the better. I may be mildly Agoraphobic, but I like going to sports games and don't mind crowded bars or concerts. The idea of having to walk down a packed NYC sidewalk makes my head hurt. I'd need a cattle prod.

Agree completely. I was in NYC a couple weeks ago for work, and had to stay in Times Square. If I didn't have agoraphobia before, I sure do now. I honestly don't understand how many people can physically occupy the same space at the same time like that.

Go to Tokyo. Makes NYC seem calm, serene and uncrowded.

As for White's comments, it is what it is. He hasn't spent enough time outside of the minors to really know what it's all about anywhere. Denver is nice, I lived out there for a bit, miss it a lot. There are also part of Denver that you'd not want to drive into late at night as well. The difference is that even on a shitty day, you can look west at the mountains, which makes for a nice way to drive home. There's a bit more living space in the downtown area, but it's not like Denver is Chicago or NYC in terms of cultural events or the hustle and bustle. Most folks like living out there for the mountains, which are a few hours drive from the metro Denver area. It's not like they are clamoring to head into downtown Denver on a regular basis. LoDo is nice, but it's dead on days the Rockies aren't playing.

Chances are he'll be spending some quality time in Colorado Springs (which is also nice) before spending time in Denver. He's a young kid who probably wasn't expecting to be dealt. I'd imagine the management was telling him all along how much they valued him and that he was going to be a huge part of the organization's future, blah, blah, blah. He still had that warm-and-fuzzy about being a professional and never thought that he'd be dealt. How many of us really thought they'd consider trading him?

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ehhhh.... I'm not into big city life at all. Too crowded and too noisy. I like peace and quiet, not listening to some dickface argue with his girlfriend in another language. I don't want to hear honking horns and car alarms that go off when the wind blows hard.

I'm not even really than fond of the suburbs. The farther I am away from people I don't know, the better. I may be mildly Agoraphobic, but I like going to sports games and don't mind crowded bars or concerts. The idea of having to walk down a packed NYC sidewalk makes my head hurt. I'd need a cattle prod.

Agree completely. I was in NYC a couple weeks ago for work, and had to stay in Times Square. If I didn't have agoraphobia before, I sure do now. I honestly don't understand how many people can physically occupy the same space at the same time like that.

Well yeah, go to the biggest tourist area and be surprised that it is packed with tourists. You know how often I go to Times Square? I live in Brooklyn where there are plenty of streets that look like this:

And I work in the West Village, where there are not crowded sidewalks and it looks like this:

So once again, I say before you start asking people to stop stereotyping your city, make sure you're not doing it to other cities.

I can see the muggers in those pictures. They are just hiding really well.

You are correct, every city has it's stereotypes, and in certain circumstances, in certain places, they are accurate. I knew a lot of Polish people who wore white socks with sandals who had colored chrome balls in their front yards growing up in Parma, but not all of us did!

Just imagine the amount of bird dirt that would be on yer car. NYC sucks. Best LOCATION IN THE NATION. Alex White isn't white, random non-sense to fit e0's template, and bring the world back into balance.

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

Orenthal wrote:But, uh, to me it just seemed like he wants to live is the Unabomber's shack with CDT. That he hates people, not just NYC.

I'm not the Unabomber, I swear. Although I rock aviators and a hood sometimes.

I like having a back yard, and not living on 17354Th street. The house i'm trying to buy, is an old farmhouse with plenty of land to shoot my guns and have good time without bothering anybody. However the real estate guy said in a voice mail "just so you know, the previous owners said the house was haunted *pause* But not by anything mean". So i've got that going for me.

Orenthal wrote:But, uh, to me it just seemed like he wants to live is the Unabomber's shack with CDT. That he hates people, not just NYC.

I'm not the Unabomber, I swear. Although I rock aviators and a hood sometimes.

I like having a back yard, and not living on 17354Th street. The house i'm trying to buy, is an old farmhouse with plenty of land to shoot my guns and have good time without bothering anybody. However the real estate guy said in a voice mail "just so you know, the previous owners said the house was haunted *pause* But not by anything mean". So i've got that going for me.

Orenthal wrote:But, uh, to me it just seemed like he wants to live is the Unabomber's shack with CDT. That he hates people, not just NYC.

I'm not the Unabomber, I swear. Although I rock aviators and a hood sometimes.

I like having a back yard, and not living on 17354Th street. The house i'm trying to buy, is an old farmhouse with plenty of land to shoot my guns and have good time without bothering anybody. However the real estate guy said in a voice mail "just so you know, the previous owners said the house was haunted *pause* But not by anything mean". So i've got that going for me.

I see dead people.

Well done.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Every place has a touch of overrated & underrated ness to it. Crowds do suck and that is a fact.

Crowds suck for sure, but living in a super diverse place is appealing to me. I guess not to everyone, though, which is somewhat unfortunate for a country like America.

Diversity is fine but a crowd is a crowd regardless. And not to get off track but it is also good that if one isn't into living among a significantly diverse crowd that America fits the bill for that as well. Plenty of room for to each his own in this country.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

Orenthal wrote:But, uh, to me it just seemed like he wants to live is the Unabomber's shack with CDT. That he hates people, not just NYC.

Yeah, I wasn't picking on NYC in particular, just referencing it because I was just there. I live in the "suburbs" of DC, and I don't like it here either. I can't stand going anywere on the weekends. Simple errands take forever because of traffic, crowds, and idiots. I grew up in Newburry and then Aurora, OH and would happily live there forever if I could do the kind of work I'm in from there.

You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves-----Abe Lincoln

Let me tell you, if any of you douchebag empty headed stuffed suit nanny politicians tries to fuck with my bacon, I’m going after you like a crazed chimpanzee on bath salts. -----Lars

Cerebral_DownTime wrote:Ehhhh.... I'm not into big city life at all. Too crowded and too noisy. I like peace and quiet, not listening to some dickface argue with his girlfriend in another language. I don't want to hear honking horns and car alarms that go off when the wind blows hard.

How do you know they are arguing if it is a different language?

The appropriate response to Alex White was posted on Twitter by this guy:

Orenthal wrote:But, uh, to me it just seemed like he wants to live is the Unabomber's shack with CDT. That he hates people, not just NYC.

Yeah, I wasn't picking on NYC in particular, just referencing it because I was just there. I live in the "suburbs" of DC, and I don't like it here either. I can't stand going anywere on the weekends. Simple errands take forever because of traffic, crowds, and idiots. I grew up in Newburry and then Aurora, OH and would happily live there forever if I could do the kind of work I'm in from there.

I agree both with you and CDT. The more I have to strain to see my neigbor the happier I am. Keep me within' an hour of a decent sized city and I'm .

"When a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience leaves with money and the man with money leaves with experience."

e0y2e3 wrote:Naw, Pittsburg is a much nicer city. You are living in delusion if you think the city itself is even comprable to Cleveland. And downtown Cleveland is barely even a city when you consider the lack of development, people living there, economy, etc. It reminds me of Hartford, a shell that people go to work at or to watch a game at then leave.

And you sound just like every other person who does not live here yet opines about the status of the local area.

There is a growing population in downtown, apartments are scarce and more are being built to satisfy demand. There are billions in development dollars pouring into this city in the next 3 years and most of it is all going downtown.

And there is most definitively downtown bars and restaurant that would not exist if you assertion were true because they make a good chunk of their yearly sales as a direct result of sports fans.

In addition Cleveland is comparable to Pittsburgh in every way and matches it on most levels.

I met my Spergon Wynn's mom once in a bar in Houston. It was a little awkward.