Posted:2nd Aug 2001I was watching the "Circles of light" video and only really 2 spinners really caught my eye. That being Jo Derry and Robert Micheal. I don't know if you would call this an advanced concept but from judging by the video and the clips availible on this site not too many people know about it. Myself and some friends call it the circle. I'll try to explain this the best i can.In my experience when spinning in front of people, you have to know the move you're doing and adjust so they so the whole picture. An example would be the weave. When viewed from the front (eye to eye with audience) it looks like 2 lines that erratically move. But from the side it looks like two nice circles moving, this is the effect you're looking for. Another example is the butterfly. This is sorta the opposite of the weave. When the butterfly is showned from the side it looks like an x (i've yet to see a totally perfect butterfly from the side like a straight line) but when showned face to face to your audience it looks like one circle whose light is bouncing off each other at the top and then bottom. And when done split time the light bounces at the sides of the circle back and forth. The only moves that don't really apply to this are x'ing, and quad-corkscrew and horizontal mexican wave.Anyways, to sum it up. Some moves look better from the right angle, that being the one that shows the circle. Always keep the circle to you're audience and they will be awed. If you still don't know what im talking about, look in a mirror and do the weave from the side and the front. One looks better than the other. At first i didn't understand this concept but it slowly sinks in and then you can't stand watching an erratic spinner because you can't see the circle. And as you know its all about the circle and really big bright lights Non-Https Image Link------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====[This message has been edited by phunky (edited 02 August 2001).]

Posted:2nd Aug 2001it is rare in my experience to have the audience, when i have one, be directly in front of you (like a videotaper)...they always end up gathering in a circle around me, so you have to change directions to give everybody a look. and the rest of the time im just twirling for my own enjoyment so i move around alot anyway Non-Https Image Linkjust my thought i guess.Pere

Posted:3rd Aug 2001I know what you mean. It's not them that has to infront of you, you're the one that has face the move corrrectly to them. If there's a big circle of people then try to give everyone a look. But unless you're a performer you're probably only spinning with a couple of friends or spectators and just tell them to stand tight in together (which is mostly what they like to do anyways cuz they wanna talk).------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====[This message has been edited by phunky (edited 03 August 2001).]

Posted:3rd Aug 2001i dunno... I agree with Pere.... this represents kind of a rudimentary, stay in one spot perception of spinning... when i spin, i'm all over the place... i am rarely facing the same direction for more than two reps of a move... also... if your'e perpetually concerned with facing a proper direction, it prevents dance moves and choreographed motions...

Posted:3rd Aug 2001I'm with you, twist. I'd hate to just be standing there. Besides, it's probably more interesting to expose your audience to multiple angles.Performing live will be different from performing on video--what looks good in person might look flat on video. But since I'm mostly concerned with live performance, I'll stick with moving around.

Posted:3rd Aug 2001I had the same argument with my friend when he first taught me it. I used facing the audience as just as an example because it was easier to write what the circle was. I can do the butterfly without facing head on with audience. The move just has to face correctly to the audience to see the light bouncing off each other. If you tell me the butterfly looks better when you don't see the circle and all you see is a crooked x then i'll stop now and forget i wrote all of this. Basically what im trying to say are moves are probably intended to be viewed from what they look best and thats what you try to give you're audience. So if theres a big crowd all around you, by all means go crazy and spin. But you don't have to be stationary to show the circle. I know im all over the place while the circle is facing the audience. So is Robert Micheal facing the camera. I don't even think about it anymore the circle is always facing the right way. I'm just going to leave it at that because i feel i'm going to get flamed or something because this isn't a "How do you do a weave" thread. It's an idea, you don't have to do it or anything, i'm just trying to share what i know.------------------[]Dhuong-Vu Truong==== []Dhunky ====

Posted:3rd Aug 2001hrrum...you're not being flamed Non-Https Image Linklemme give an example of what i'm talking about...my standard opening combo is reverse butterfly, into forward butterfly to the left without turning, back to reverese into center, forward to the left...from there i take it over my head, turn 180, go over my head again, turn again, and then go behind my back...this requires constant turning... if i were preoccupies with "facing the right way" it would prevent my choreography,

Posted:3rd Aug 2001Thats perfect actually... hehyou're showing the circle without knowing it. I'm not talking about your body facing the right way im talking about always showing the good side of a move, you're body turning and everything has nothing to do with it.

Posted:3rd Aug 2001I agree with the circles concept - you can still move around a lot and dance and choreograph and have lots of fun whilst still retaining a sense of how the "audience" (whether it be a flat video or a complete circle audience) is seeing you... sure in a full circle some people will not have the best view all the time, but there's a big difference watching someone who is aware of what it looks like from the outside and who plays to the audience and someone who is lost in their own world of fire (mind you I love watching people twirl like this sometimes too - especially when they are really good)point? I agree with what phunky is saying and just wanted to add that it doesn't mean you will be standing still and then turning 90degrees to face the audience/side... it's a good thing to keep in mind (especially when you a performing in a certain genre and want to engage and interact with the audience...) but of course there's always the other perspective of dancing/performing for *yourself* and not for the onlookers...

Posted:6th Sep 2001I agree Phunky and Bec. Non-Https Image LinkIt is all about your level of awareness. And... whether you are performing for an audience or yourself. Robert Michael's ability to do this was what really stood out when I watched circles of light.Finn Non-Https Image Link

Posted:6th Sep 2001eh, I think if you are an advanced enough twirler, you will have an awareness of the orientation of your spin plane(s) to your body symetry. Then all you need to do is direct your attention in a direction relative to your body...then everything will be exactly as you want it to be..in my case I'm looking for symetrical.with practice you can flow through - but if you pay attention to your spin plane, your body symetry and your gaze / attention you will always look good Non-Https Image Linkbut then again..it's like comparing classical ballet with contemporary dance...they both have their merits, but are very different in style....Josh

Posted:7th Sep 2001hmmm.. I'm going to have to say that it depends I suppose on what your definition is on audience engagement/interaction. I personally believe as with anything, some people are much better than others and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether your planes are being spun in the right facing direction. (Although often my audiences are in a circle around) ...I also believe if you have enough skill as a busker or performer, you can demonstrate your passion and talent while being constantly wrapped in your fire bubble... And I have to agree with Josh's last comment..it is like comparing coathangers to mothballs... or something? Non-Https Image Link

The beautiful thing about learning is that no one can take it away from you.- B.B.King

Posted:7th Sep 2001god it freaks me out to see people using my name on here, but anyway, um..in the circles of light video i wasn't really thinking all that much about the direction i was facing.it's only recently that i've started thinking about where the 'audience' is and how to make it look best for them.for the weave and associated moves i think a profile view is best, and for butterfly etc, facing the audience (or back to them) is best..but all in all, stuff the people watching, i'm having fun and i'll move all over the place Non-Https Image Link

Posted:13th Sep 2001Audience presence and audience awareness are some of the most important concepts in theater, no matter what form you are doing (Welcome to theater 101 Non-Https Image Link). Audience awareness is when you know to move a certain way to give the audience the best possible angle. In the COL video the two boys (Warren Hammond and Bob Thomson) had amazing audience awareness and they choreographed their movements as such, they didn't move too much (yes there is such a thing) but enough to keep interest and enough to make nice angles and views. I was very impressed with the in-sync long poi (I'd call it meteor but they only utilized one end). Jo Derry and Robert Michael both had strong audience presence...meaning they knew someone was watching and so did not move out of sight lines, yet still moved their bodies in a way that was interesting, comfortable appearing, but not necessarily to give the audience the best angles and views.I too enjoy Robert's segment very much but his brings to mind another theatrical issue...lighting Non-Https Image Link. I would've loved to have seen exactly how you moved Robert but it was a bit hard in the darkness. Maybe I will have to save my full admiration for 2003? Non-Https Image Link------------------Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir...http://www.pyromorph.com

Pele Higher, higher burning fire...making music like a choir"Oooh look! A pub!" -exclaimed after recovering from a stupid fall"And for the decadence of art, nothing beats a roaring fire." -TMK

Posted:14th Sep 2001I agree with Pele on the darkness issue. I think when people move beyond the "wow look at the fire" you want to see the body behind the flame and how they are moving. As for the audiences perception......as a twirler you may not give a rats ass what people watching you think and where you are positioned, but from being a part of an audience and being a performer you really do get to learn what people like to see, and like it or not, they like to see the best perspective.It is important when formulating a routine to consider this. Me and a friend have just finished a sync poi routine to perform and we changed stuff around to make sure that we gave the audience the best view of what we were doing, didnt compromise our moves at all, just adjusted the way we were facing.The difference is plainly obvious when you watch it on video.

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