(07-04-2013 02:51 AM)Logica Humano Wrote: I cannot honestly believe that your air is so less polluted.

Your country's total disregard for the concept of environmental destruction is one of the many things that will inhibit you from maintaining your impressive growth. The insane levels of pollution forced the Environmental Protection Agency to create a new “black” level on the AQI scale, which is described simply as “beyond index.”

Beijing has been steadily placed in the 500 point range and above for years now. So unless your source's scale for grading differs, I'd say your propaganda-filled citing needs to take a back seat.

A: I am curious that ...
B: Actually it is that...
A: Bullshit, what I heard was ... Propaganda !
B: ....

I am able to produce multiple sources showing you that the air quality in Beijing has been well over 500 points for several years now. I was not curious as to whether or not Beijing actually has the problem, I was asking you how you feel about it. As far as I can tell, your source is propaganda because it is one of few sources that puts the air quality in favor of your argument.

(07-04-2013 10:54 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote: In case this happens again, I will try to be concise and provide information which you don't regularly see on the internet.

A: I am curious that ...
B: Actually it is that...
A: Bullshit, what I heard was ... Propaganda !
B: ....

First, no one ever enjoyed absolute power, not even the emperors. As long as humans crave for power, it will always be a balance of a power game on top.

Second, a check on corruption? Officially inside the CPC there's the Commission for Discipline Inspection for village level(recent years) to nation level. There are laws against corruption. There are Procuratorates (county to nation) which accept anonymous and non-anonymous reports on corruption. Now Weibo is also a popular tool against corruption, especially when those registered with real identity disclosed these things.

Third, U.S. is good. Good luck there.

What's the point of your A ... B ... A ... B ... cut and paste?

There is no absolute power in China? So when the Communist party comes to a conclusion on something, it can be overruled? I doubt that would ever happen.

"Third, U.S. is good. Good luck there." . Not sure if you mean to express skepticism about our system. We have flaws, to be sure. The difference is they are publicly disclosed for all to see--and for anyone willing to do so to correct. I've read a lot about the internal debate among leaders from the Tiananmen Square protests from 1989, mostly the account reported in Foreign Affairs magazine around the time the Tiananmen Papers was published. The account was published under a pseudonym reportedly by a member of the communist party sympathetic to the view some had that the Chinese government used excessive force to put down a peaceful protest.

To this day, I hear of accounts particularly around the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square protests being censored, that Chinese search engines block searches related to the incident. Google agreed to government pressure to censor these results and publicly reversed course due to outrage and pressure from the West that they bowed to censorship.

Tell me then--if the CCP is not all powerful, why are they able to stifle discussion about this event? Why don't the Chinese people see the traumatic footage like we in the West have seen of an unarmed protestor standing up to a tank in an act of non-violent resistance? I bet anyone in China could easily find similar stories and footage of the civil rights struggle in the US. That such struggles have occurred in the US is not surprising--all countries have they problems. The only difference is that we know about them. Do all Chinese know about the June 4 protests? Doubtful.

(07-04-2013 06:03 AM)Hafnof Wrote: Hopefully this won't get lost in the wash.

For interesting topics, I am always glad to answer.

(07-04-2013 06:03 AM)Hafnof Wrote: I'm interested to know whether you have any particular thoughts about 孫逸仙 and his three principles of 民族, 民權 and 民生? They are I think not well understood in the West and I particularly feel I don't understand them properly.

He is regarded as the founding father by the Taiwan Regime, respected as a Revolutionary Forerunner in mainland China. He is addressed as a Lolicon jokingly by some young people because he had intimacy relationship with quite some girls pretty young in ages. He is quite far from my life.

(07-04-2013 06:03 AM)Hafnof Wrote: The English translations are something like "nationalism", "democracy", and "welfare" - but these translations carry a great deal of baggage in the West. I feel that what is understood from these words in a Chinese sense is very different. I can understand nationalism tying together with the integrity of greater China and the cooperation and unity of the people, especially after so much foreign influence and invasion. Democracy I have a hard time understanding because in the West its meaning is quite specific. Democracy means that the will of the people can non-violently overthrow any government and seems individualistic. Welfare also I have a hard time understanding in the Chinese context because although I understand it can imply socialism or communism it seems again to be something individualistic and a little out of character with the Chinese approach.

I don't know his three principles well. But those three principles were what was needed to restructure the Unity League into KMT. Cathy slogans, I think. But these catchy things indeed worked in history. Many did sacrifice their lives under such slogans in riots against the rotting Qing government, while Mr. Sun was directing such riots remotely in Japan or starting fleeing when he saw things not going well.

Those word are indeed harsh. And that's why Mr. Sun is respected as a revolutionary forerunner here on the mainland.

(07-04-2013 06:03 AM)Hafnof Wrote: Supplementary question. I know you were asked about Taiwan before, but I wanted to know if you have any reaction to a few specific phrases: 天地會, 三合会, and I don't quite know the translation but "Taiwanese gangsters"?

Feel free to take this question one bite at a time

Initially Mr. Sun relied on gangsters as an important ally (if not the major one) for his riots. When he got government power, he became unwilling and refused to fulfill the promises he made to these gangsters. So gangsters had to whitewash themselves or develop the businesses themselves.

In mainland China, their descendants formed the China Zhi Gong Dang (party).

In H. K., their descendants are call Triad organized crime group.

In Taiwan, yes, as you know, a major force of gangsters. Due to their special relationship with Mr. Sun, the KMT government, quite many of them fled to Taiwan when the KMT on the mainland failed.

In the U.S. they are like a secret society, half white, half black, maybe.

Besides what you can see or hear on the Intrawebz, what sorts of Western (e.g., American) entertainment is popular in your country? You made a Big Bang Theory reference in another post. I assume that from seeing it online, but are there American TV shows that are broadcast, or movies, books, etc.?

TV channels stopped importing U.S. TV series in late 1990's.

But China is a huge market for U.S. movies. We have Broken City, Jack el Cazagigantes, Oz the great powerful, the Croods, G.I. Joe Retaliation ... this year.

Books are also introduced and translated with 1984 and the Brave New World as publicly published booked.

I am able to produce multiple sources showing you that the air quality in Beijing has been well over 500 points for several years now. I was not curious as to whether or not Beijing actually has the problem, I was asking you how you feel about it. As far as I can tell, your source is propaganda because it is one of few sources that puts the air quality in favor of your argument.

(07-04-2013 10:54 AM)HU.Junyuan Wrote: In case this happens again, I will try to be concise and provide information which you don't regularly see on the internet.

A: I am curious that ...
B: Actually it is that...
A: Bullshit, what I heard was ... Propaganda !
B: ....

First, no one ever enjoyed absolute power, not even the emperors. As long as humans crave for power, it will always be a balance of a power game on top.

Second, a check on corruption? Officially inside the CPC there's the Commission for Discipline Inspection for village level(recent years) to nation level. There are laws against corruption. There are Procuratorates (county to nation) which accept anonymous and non-anonymous reports on corruption. Now Weibo is also a popular tool against corruption, especially when those registered with real identity disclosed these things.

Third, U.S. is good. Good luck there.

What's the point of your A ... B ... A ... B ... cut and paste?

There is no absolute power in China? So when the Communist party comes to a conclusion on something, it can be overruled? I doubt that would ever happen.

"Third, U.S. is good. Good luck there." . Not sure if you mean to express skepticism about our system. We have flaws, to be sure. The difference is they are publicly disclosed for all to see--and for anyone willing to do so to correct. I've read a lot about the internal debate among leaders from the Tiananmen Square protests from 1989, mostly the account reported in Foreign Affairs magazine around the time the Tiananmen Papers was published. The account was published under a pseudonym reportedly by a member of the communist party sympathetic to the view some had that the Chinese government used excessive force to put down a peaceful protest.

To this day, I hear of accounts particularly around the anniversary of the Tiananmen Square protests being censored, that Chinese search engines block searches related to the incident. Google agreed to government pressure to censor these results and publicly reversed course due to outrage and pressure from the West that they bowed to censorship.

Tell me then--if the CCP is not all powerful, why are they able to stifle discussion about this event? Why don't the Chinese people see the traumatic footage like we in the West have seen of an unarmed protestor standing up to a tank in an act of non-violent resistance? I bet anyone in China could easily find similar stories and footage of the civil rights struggle in the US. That such struggles have occurred in the US is not surprising--all countries have they problems. The only difference is that we know about them. Do all Chinese know about the June 4 protests? Doubtful.

(07-04-2013 12:01 PM)HU.Junyuan Wrote: Did any body care that I said I watched what happened in 1989 on TV?

If you don't, thanks for caring.

You sidestepped the main question of my post, and never addressed whether there is censorship going on right now over the 1989 events. Can you still find footage from that event on the internet in China, or can you still research those events without censorship? I'm asking you, not Wikipedia. As you point out, I already know what it says, what the Tiananmen Papers say. Why not comment in more detail? If you are refusing to comment directly, that says a lot as well.

(07-04-2013 12:01 PM)HU.Junyuan Wrote: Did any body care that I said I watched what happened in 1989 on TV?

If you don't, thanks for caring.

You sidestepped the main question of my post, and never addressed whether there is censorship going on right now over the 1989 events. Can you still find footage from that event on the internet in China, or can you still research those events without censorship? I'm asking you, not Wikipedia. As you point out, I already know what it says, what the Tiananmen Papers say. Why not comment in more detail? If you are refusing to comment directly, that says a lot as well.

I said I reserved the right not to answer questions I didn't feel comfortable to answer.

You can feel free to draw whatever conclusion you want. And quite a few before you just did. Did I care?