OT, but: great magazine. Lots of thoughtful articles / editorials. I had to cancel my subscription after realizing I couldn't keep up with the rapid content delivery, though.

Not to go too far OT, but what the heck. I've read the Economist for over 20 years, and it is one very useful datum. It has a decided point-of-view, but every publication does. As long as you keep it in mind, you can get stories that you would not get easily here otherwise.

Seamonkey ftw. Konqueror is surprisingly decent, too. Firefox is lacking some configurables that seamonkey still supports, so I haven't really adopted it for general-purpose browsing. Konqueror has some configurables that neither Seamonkey nor Firefox have without additional add-ons (like changing your User-agent string to get around retarded websites: www.comcast.net, I'm looking at you..)

I also REALLY like being able to middle-click on the new tab button in seamonkey to open the URL in my paste buffer in a new tab. Something Firefox sorely lacks, even with the new tab button add-on.

According to that site you linked your comment should be deleted, your IP banned from the forum, and gross and ulgy defamatory comments should be made about you.

Of course, since you run this site, I'll leave it to you - LOL!

I ran the acid tests it mentions and found that while firefox performed to the expectation that the author claims, IE's results were completely incomprehensible (I'm using IE7-32-bit.) It just seems a bit misleading in some ways, meant to stoke the fires of evangelists on both sides, though for a calm group such as ourselves it's quite enlightening (and, in fact, a comfort on that whole "memory-leak bug".)

That website is by a MS advocate and should be ignored. The stuff he listed was generally wrong when he posted it and over 3 years and 2 versions out of date now.

IE8, the best IE Microsoft has come up with, is 10 years behind web standards and it isn't even out yet. It's new features and capabilities only approach what every other browser could do years ago.
Opera and Safari's nightly builds are bleeding edge in standards compliance.
Firefox and Chrome are not far behind. Firefox has the most add-ons that are very helpful.

Firefox 3.1 will be released soon and it's javascript engine is blazingly fast.
Chrome's engine is also on hyperdrive.
IE8s javascript engine is 6x slow than everyone else.

Firefox's so called "memory leak" issues were ancient history when 3.0 came out.

Passing the ACIDx test is good but not a good indicator of standards compliance. That said, IE8 gets a 13, I think, while FF3 is 85? or 58? Opera/Safari nightly builds pass Acid3.

IE8 will still be the only major browser that cannot do XHTML and SVG graphics.

Firefox 3.1 will be released soon and it's javascript engine is blazingly fast.

... but disabled by default

__________________religions, worst damnation of mankind"If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus TorvaldsLinux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”.vermaden's:linksresourcesdeviantartspreadbsd

Could anybody be so kind and tell me when Internet Explorer and Safari were
ported to *BSD? I must have missed something.

To stay on the same note, I don't know what was criteria used to list browsers but I find it funny that two main stream browsers were left out from the list: Midori and Kazehakase. Obviously Google Chrome also has far more chance to be ported one day to *BSD than Internet Explorer.

Personally, I can not stand Gecko engine so for me the choice is clear. It is either Opera (Presto engine) or Midori (WebKit). Since, I am OpenBSD user I would have to give slight advantage to Midori. There are no native Opera binaries for OpenBSD and I do not like to turn on Linux compatibility layer as it is against my religion.

In my point of view Midori is far more promising project than Opera (Unless Opera goes open source). Obviously Midori has still problems with stability.

I also want to say for the record that potentially the best web-browser by 10 fold is Dillo2 but unless developers move quickly to get OpenSSL really working and get support for Java Script (I hate JS as all of you but it is unfortunate reality of the Net) it is going to remain just a joke. Based on past experience (two years freeze) I am not confident that would ever happen. The fact that tabular browsing was
higher priority for Dillo2 developers than OpenSSL is a very bad sign. So go Dillo2 but in the mean time I am trying to stick to Midori.

Speaking of text browsers I really like Lynx but I unfortunately need JS support. Apart of that Lynx ROCKS. Elinks is on the another hand almost full featured web-browser. It needs mostly code fixing when it comes to JS as its
support for it is VERY limited. Unfortunately the elinks is on OpenBSD pre-compiled without Java Script support
(spidermonkey).

Links developers seems lost. instead of fixing usability problems they started adding GUI and CSS support. That is just the death of Links browser in my book.

Just for the record, using Operas "small screen" view to display pages as they would on a phone, the difference between Opera and Lynx?

The colour pallet is wider and images can be displayed.

I was shocked, when comparing several websites I use daily in Operas "small view" and Lynx in Terminal -> almost identical. So I would say, Lynx is at least as good for surfing the web as a smart phone or PDA :=)

Just for the record, using Operas "small screen" view to display pages as they would on a phone, the difference between Opera and Lynx?

The colour pallet is wider and images can be displayed.

I was shocked, when comparing several websites I use daily in Operas "small view" and Lynx in Terminal -> almost identical. So I would say, Lynx is at least as good for surfing the web as a smart phone or PDA :=)

Opera supports Java Script unlike Lynx. In an ideal world people who use Java Script would be jailed but I live in an imperfect world where support for OpenSSL and Java Script for me is must.

Unfortunately for people who must have Flash and Java the life is even more miserable.

To stay on the same note, I don't know what was criteria used to list browsers but I find it funny that two main stream browsers were left out from the list: Midori and Kazehakase. Obviously Google Chrome also has far more chance to be ported one day to *BSD than Internet Explorer.

Google will get Chrome on Linux, at this time.. it's using the Win32 API.. it'll take a lot of work.. (See above about I.E..)

How dedicated they are to ensuring it works well on BSD, unknown.. but they chose the BSD licence, that's some indication right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oko

Personally, I can not stand Gecko engine so for me the choice is clear. It is either Opera (Presto engine) or Midori (WebKit). Since, I am OpenBSD user I would have to give slight advantage to Midori. There are no native Opera binaries for OpenBSD and I do not like to turn on Linux compatibility layer as it is against my religion.

I also can't wait to try Midori, would be nice.. I've been using Gecko based browsers out of necessity. (I also will not enable any of the binary compatibility layers..).

Still, the poller probably included all those options out of fairness... some wackos use BSD on servers, not workstations.

I was shocked, when comparing several websites I use daily in Operas "small view" and Lynx in Terminal -> almost identical. So I would say, Lynx is at least as good for surfing the web as a smart phone or PDA :=)

Most/many developers use Lynx to check the flow of their pages before adding styling.
Opera is the dominant browser for phones.

To stay on the same note, I don't know what was criteria used to list browsers but I find it funny that two main stream browsers were left out from the list: Midori and Kazehakase. Obviously Google Chrome also has far more chance to be ported one day to *BSD than Internet Explorer.

What is a mainstream browser? From the top my head IE has ~75% market share, Firefox ~20%, and 5% is all the rest ... Opera (A ``mainstream'' browser) for example only has a ~.5% market share ...

Quote:

There are no native Opera binaries for OpenBSD and I do not like to turn on Linux compatibility layer as it is against my religion.

slightly off-topic, but can't OpenBSD run FreeBSD binaries?

Quote:

That website is by a MS advocate and should be ignored.

Ah yes, of course, I forgot!

Code:

if (Microsoft())
{
Evil();
Ignore();
}

How is it possible people don't see this highly intellectual and open-minded position!

Quote:

The stuff he listed was generally wrong

Such as?

Quote:

over 3 years and 2 versions out of date

It includes Firefox 2, so it's just one version (And FF3 is rather new).

Quote:

Firefox 3.1 will be released soon and ...

Yes, this is the firefox motto:
firefox <next version> will be released soon and it will fix problem x, y, and z.
Been hearing that one for years.

Quote:

Chrome's engine is also on hyperdrive.

Chrome is alpha and years from a stable and usable state.

Quote:

IE8s javascript engine is 6x slow than everyone else.

IE8 is a beta, so it's not really fair to judge it by that.
Also, as far as I've noticed it's not really that slow, but I haven't seen any benchmarks (Do you know of any?).

Quote:

Firefox's so called "memory leak" issues were ancient history when 3.0 came out.

Yes, 1.5 whole years ago!
In any case, it does make a point about the general quality of FF.

Quote:

IE8 will still be the only major browser that cannot do XHTML and SVG graphics.

Actually, plugins for IE SVG support have existed for quite some time.

And the IE people are working on XHTML for IE ... I would not be surprised if the release version of IE8 will support it.

Quote:

No one would cry if IE went away today.

Only about 75% of the web, but who cares about that minority?

__________________
UNIX was not designed to stop you from doing stupid things, because that would also stop you from doing clever things.

How is it possible people don't see this highly intellectual and open-minded position!

Simple. That guy was well known among us web developers and was dissed years ago. He's full of BS.

Quote:

Such as?

Oh, sigh. I did this a year or two ago but I'll look again.

Quote:

Yes, this is the firefox motto:
firefox <next version> will be released soon and it will fix problem x, y, and z.
Been hearing that one for years.

I would hope so. Mozilla constantly works on their code. Unlike Microsoft who took five years to work on theirs and still get it wrong.

Quote:

Chrome is alpha and years from a stable and usable state.

Yes it is but that doesn't make its engine less so.

Quote:

IE8 is a beta, so it's not really fair to judge it by that.

But you just dissed Chrome as being alpha. In any case, IE8 is virtually done and there is nothing more significant to come of it.

Quote:

Also, as far as I've noticed it's not really that slow, but I haven't seen any benchmarks (Do you know of any?).

Go to ArsTechnica. They posted results within the last week. So have one or two others.

Quote:

Actually, plugins for IE SVG support have existed for quite some time.

Those plugins do not work in IE7, I believe, and definitely don't work in IE8. Adobe abandoned that plugin a couple years ago.

Quote:

And the IE people are working on XHTML for IE ... I would not be surprised if the release version of IE8 will support it.

They are not and have stated so on the IEBlog. Where did you hear that?

Quote:

Only about 75% of the web, but who cares about that minority?

Those 75% are mostly users who wouldn't know the troubles of developing for it. It is by far the worst browser on the planet and IE8 won't help much. No web developer worth his salt has any respect for IE. It is the only browser that has tens, if not hundreds, of web sites dedicated to fixes for it.

Anyway, here are the browser stats for DaemonForums ... seems firefox is by far the most popular ...

Also post operating systems used.

__________________religions, worst damnation of mankind"If 386BSD had been available when I started on Linux, Linux would probably never had happened." Linus TorvaldsLinux is not UNIX! Face it! It is not an insult. It is fact: GNU is a recursive acronym for “GNU's Not UNIX”.vermaden's:linksresourcesdeviantartspreadbsd