Uh no. Read the original post. Made the same point at the very beggining.

Not really. First you talk about something intrinsic to eastern martial arts and philosophy (i.e. zen) that builds mental fortitude, then you equate it to what sports psychologists do and finally you end with:

If you can achieve this through religion, philosophy, Oprah or watching hours and hours of Asia Carrera porn that's Great!

So we've established then that there is nothing to martial arts (in regards to mental fortitude, whatever the hell that is) that can't be gained via other methods such as masturbation; that fighters get all geeky and into poetry when the get too old to fight and that zen has something to do with marketing to caucasians.
Great thread!

Lot's of people go through **** like that and worse and don't melt down like he did. The fact that he was given no mental coping skills is why he all that **** happened to him.

You are very wrong on this. I don't know what great zen mindstate you have but almost anyone breaks down after a string of physical, professional, social, and emotional downfalls. It surprising he didn't off himself.

Do you know many wounded soldiers coming back from Iraq go through? They all breakdown at some point, especially there injury greatly alters their life (ie losing a limb). We get counseling before going on deployment, after returning, and its mandatory if you are wounded. They still meltdown. Its normal. Its the picking yourself back up which is the hard part.

My original point wasn't that martial arts gives people amazing mental strength that allows them to achieve their hearts desires.
But they aspired to help people achieve some degree of physical AND mental toughness.

Yes for doing martial arts. Anything beyond that is merely a bonus which one person my get and another won't. It doesn't make the latter any less of a Martial Artist.

The point is that while it's great that MA has started to get away from the bullshido of pure MA enlightenment that was so pervasive. There is still a benefit to some of the thing that are being discarded.

Like what? What is being discarded that is benefical and germane to MA?

I ask because I don't know many MA teachers that are truly qualified to teach and instill anything other than their chosen combative skills.

I am not sure I agree 100% The ability to stay focused under stress is something I think translates from good Martial training to real life. Coping with stressful situations that are not nesecarily fight situations.

Learning to relax in a fight is NOT the same as learning to relax while take a college entrance exam. Both are stressful situations but are precieved by the person differently. MA teaches you to deal with the stress brought on by violence but that doesn't automaticly translate into dealing with the stress brought on by an awkward social situation.

You are very wrong on this. I don't know what great zen mindstate you have but almost anyone breaks down after a string of physical, professional, social, and emotional downfalls. It surprising he didn't off himself.

Do you know many wounded soldiers coming back from Iraq go through? They all breakdown at some point, especially there injury greatly alters their life (ie losing a limb). We get counseling before going on deployment, after returning, and its mandatory if you are wounded. They still meltdown. Its normal. Its the picking yourself back up which is the hard part.

Mike Tysons and his problems are not equivelant to a returning soldier from Iraq.

He was trained from an early age to be this unstopable fighting machine
The fact that he fell apart was because he was never given any coping skills. because no one cared as long as he was a great fighter. Coping skills or mental toughnes or whatever you call it is important.

He has talked about it in interviews and said that he felt he was w worthless human being. Heck maybe if we was given some of coping skill he wouldn't have been the fighter he was in his prime, but he might have been a happier and better person.

Originally Posted by LORD ASIA

Like what? What is being discarded that is benefical and germane to MA?

I ask because I don't know many MA teachers that are truly qualified to teach and instill anything other than their chosen combative skills.

I see a lot of schools poping up that brag that they don't do any of the Eastern BS stuff and it's all about fighting. It's all over the place, things have swung from total mystic BS to completely disregarding the fact the MA can you give some mental benfit.

Sould MA teachers be like guru's to their students. A lot of them try and yeah that produces a lot of BS.

But there are things in tradtional MA like sitting in Seiza to clear you mind that is benefitial inside and outside of MA.

Kind of like Rickson's "aura" crap now. You try and superimpose meaning and purpose to your life as you get older, even if it wasn't there to begin with.

No, the Gracies have always been kooky. It all comes from Helio's wacky fruitarianism and obsession with his Precious Body Fluids. A person's beliefs about fighting say nothing about how valid their views on anything else are.

Learning to relax in a fight is NOT the same as learning to relax while take a college entrance exam. Both are stressful situations but are precieved by the person differently. MA teaches you to deal with the stress brought on by violence but that doesn't automaticly translate into dealing with the stress brought on by an awkward social situation.

I'd say that learning the former makes it easier to pick up the latter. They are not the same skill, but a good attitude training can help people become less anxious in other situations, if they give it a shot. They just don't *have* to.

I'm sure there have been studies done on judo players' psychological stability and social skills that would be relevant to this.

Mike Tysons and his problems are not equivelant to a returning soldier from Iraq.

Yes and no. He had to suffer life altering stress in his life as well or do you think prison is a cake walk?

He was trained from an early age to be this unstopable fighting machine

Wrong. He was trained to be an combative athelete in a specific sport. You are I'm just going to say that your view of Tyson is not really on the mark so I'll move on.

But there are things in tradtional MA like sitting in Seiza to clear you mind that is benefitial inside and outside of MA.

Wrong agian. Why do you sit in seiza? To clear you mind? Nope. You sit in seiza because its a CULTURAL NORM for JMA thats it. This is the kind of BS that pple are trying to get away from. Do you understand what I am saying here? You are placing more emphasis on something that is culutral which is simply just a way of siting.

No, the Gracies have always been kooky. It all comes from Helio's wacky fruitarianism and obsession with his Precious Body Fluids. A person's beliefs about fighting say nothing about how valid their views on anything else are.

Actually it started with Carlos Sr. Pple are constantly mistaken Helio as the founder of the GJJ tradtion but it was Carlos who is the founder and the start of many of the Gracie's traditons. The challenges, the diet, the no sex unless you going to have a baby, etc. Helio just continued on with it.

I'd say that learning the former makes it easier to pick up the latter. They are not the same skill, but a good attitude training can help people become less anxious in other situations, if they give it a shot. They just don't *have* to.

It possible but there is no gaurantee that one will benefit the other. Because you can drive a car doesn't mean you can handle a bus. One can help the other but its not 100%