Have they mentioned DLC or expansions or any of that stuff? Sadly I'm wrapped up in GW2/TL2, with Borderlands 2 on my radar, so Dishonored is going to have to wait. If they plan on releasing DLC then that makes the decision to wait all the easier.

Mohorovicic

08-10-2012, 10:36 AM

The fact that gaming journalists are giving Dishonored great scores is a good indication of its objective quality because gaming journalists have proven themselves to be entirely reliable in the past.

Serenegoose

08-10-2012, 10:50 AM

The fact that gaming journalists are giving Dishonored great scores is a good indication of its objective quality because gaming journalists have proven themselves to be entirely reliable in the past.

It's a good thing nobody here's claiming that they're entirely reliable or you'd be veering close to a point.

Oshada

08-10-2012, 10:50 AM

The strike rate for Wot I Think features is near perfect, I think the journalists are right this time.

Xercies

08-10-2012, 11:27 AM

Looks to be the spirtual successor of Looking glass games we were all hoping for very excited to try this out.

BillButNotBen

08-10-2012, 11:37 AM

See, hopefully this is what i expected all FPS games to turn into after SS2 / Deus Ex.

Actually, is it weird that i'm kind of surprised that it's getting great scores? I half expected modern reviewers to be unimpressed by that type of gameplay.

caljohnston

08-10-2012, 11:38 AM

The "reviewers" are salivating over it but all the videos I've seen, including the 40 min giantbomb one have seemed like crap to me. Bad graphics, bad AI, bad UI, too many super powers, poor animation, zero difficulty, etc.

It's like Bioshock all over again.

Mohorovicic

08-10-2012, 11:39 AM

It's like Bioshock all over again.

Hey, I was saying that :(

Drake Sigar

08-10-2012, 11:40 AM

The fact that gaming journalists are giving Dishonored great scores is a good indication of its objective quality because gaming journalists have proven themselves to be entirely reliable in the past.

Haha true dat, though usually the scores are influenced by how much power a developer has and how badly a mag/site will need those future previews. All Arkane Studios have made is Arx Fatalis and Dark Messiah. Great games, but hardly the sort of stuff to gain the attention of mainstream mag/sites.

BillButNotBen

08-10-2012, 11:41 AM

The "reviewers" are salivating over it but all the videos I've seen, including the 40 min giantbomb one have seemed like crap to me. Bad graphics, bad AI, bad UI, too many super powers, poor animation, zero difficulty, etc.

It's like Bioshock all over again.

It might be because old-school games were designed to be fun to play, but new school games seem to be designed to be fun to watch.

Sketch

08-10-2012, 11:48 AM

Hyped games get crap reviews too! I do think some games get rated higher than they should, but definitely not, "burn them aat the stake, the reviewers are in the publishers pockets!"

DaftPunk

08-10-2012, 11:53 AM

Not surprised at all when you see who worked on a game :D

Kadayi

08-10-2012, 12:06 PM

It's a good thing nobody here's claiming that they're entirely reliable or you'd be veering close to a point.

Indeed. The man is a broken pencil.

I was quite heartened by Adams WiT tbh and look forward to playing Dishonored, however I suspect that XCom will likely hold my attention for most of the weekend.

Not surprised at all when you see who published the game :D
That's more like it.

Makariel

08-10-2012, 12:26 PM

It's like Bioshock all over again.
I liked Bioshock. At least until the plot twist, after which the game degraded rather quickly and culminated with the worst escort quest in recent memory.

SectoidBro

08-10-2012, 12:38 PM

And remember, to unlock the game when it's REALLY out instead of the bullshit european release date do this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/100r72/do_you_live_in_europe_heres_how_to_unlock_the/?sort=new

with this: http://www.spotflux.com/

Oshada

08-10-2012, 01:12 PM

It might be because old-school games were designed to be fun to play, but new school games seem to be designed to be fun to watch.

And then there are games like Dark Souls which are fun to play AND watch :)

Kadayi

08-10-2012, 01:16 PM

And remember, to unlock the game when it's REALLY out instead of the bullshit european release date do this: http://www.reddit.com/r/Borderlands/comments/100r72/do_you_live_in_europe_heres_how_to_unlock_the/?sort=new

with this: http://www.spotflux.com/

Oh noes other people in the world might be playing a game before me!!! Oh the tyranny.

Finicky

08-10-2012, 01:18 PM

Animations (and character models) look like dogshit.
It may not be a bethesda made game, but it certainly has trademark bethesda untalented modelers and animators.

First impressions that I've heard from non PR monkeys (normal people) is that the stealth is not comparable to Thief at all.
No light/shadows based stealth or anything good like that.

Guess we'll hear in a few days if it's any good at all, PR mouthpiece opinions are about as valuable as shit at a pigfarm.
MW2 game 'its biggest problem is that it's almost too good', 'oscar worthy story' perfect game of the forever for gta4, assassin's creed and mass effect 10/10... yeah I don't think it's wise to dignify anything those tools say.

Choca

08-10-2012, 01:19 PM

Finished it yesterday, great game, maybe not as great as all the "OMG GAME OF THE CENTURY !!§§!!1!" reviews make it out to be but still a solid must buy.

airtekh

08-10-2012, 01:22 PM

Woohoo! Just finished Borderlands 2 in time for this. I'm preloaded and ready to go.

I love me some stealth gameplay.

Mohorovicic

08-10-2012, 01:25 PM

First impressions that I've heard from non PR monkeys (normal people) is that the stealth is not comparable to Thief at all.
No light/shadows based stealth or anything good like that.

That was made clear way back though.

Choca

08-10-2012, 01:26 PM

stealth is not comparable to Thief at all.
No light/shadows based stealth or anything good like that.

Stealth is line of sight based, not light/shadows based.

Finicky

08-10-2012, 01:28 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=INPKd4JGtsk&feature=plcp

Video from annoyingvoice-guy that shows how good/bad a port it is. More useful into here than in all those reviews combined for pc gamers.

The artstyle seems pretty nice in the video, beats shitty cell shading as far as cartoony looks go at least. Might sound petty to trash the awful animations but it's a pet peeve of mine, too much uncanny valley and lazy horrible animating these last few years.

Curious if the gameplay is any good.

Stealth is line of sight based, not light/shadows based.
Yes, that is what I just said... Hence it being nothing like the amazing thief games...
Since I've heard the word 'thief' mentioned a lot in the last weeks when people talk about dishonored I think it's good to know that the stealth isn't like in thief.
Avoiding buyer's remorse due to different expectations and all that.

NathanH

08-10-2012, 01:47 PM

I was thinking about buying this game until I found out it wasn't using beautiful shadows-based stealth and was using yucky LOS-based stealth. I hate LOS-based stealth, it is just, I don't know, fundamentally ugly.

Makariel

08-10-2012, 02:12 PM

I hate LOS-based stealth, it is just, I don't know, fundamentally ugly.
Why? Care to elaborate? To me LOS-stealth taking into account sounds makes a lot of sense. More than a light-meter.

Voon

08-10-2012, 02:30 PM

Nice to see the good reception and all but about the stealth mechanic in this game, rather than just LOS, does sound affect your stealthing as well? And wouldn't light and dark affect the line of sight?

Sketch

08-10-2012, 02:36 PM

Regarding sound, I saw a gameplay video where the player ran up behind a guy, who turned round in surprise, so I think it does factor in.

Unaco

08-10-2012, 02:36 PM

Nice to see the good reception and all but about the stealth mechanic in this game, rather than just LOS, does sound affect your stealthing as well? And wouldn't light and dark affect the line of sight?

Sound does play an important role. As for light/dark... at great distances, yes, it becomes important. What they've tried to avoid is situations where the player is in a shadow, and a guard is looking right at them from 5 meters away.

Kadayi

08-10-2012, 02:51 PM

Guess we'll hear in a few days if it's any good at all, PR mouthpiece opinions are about as valuable as shit at a pigfarm.

Pretty sure Sephking linked to a bunch of reviews, but of course I guess they're all paid hacks in the pocket of big business *sigh*.

In a week I'm expecting the inevitable 'We'll I'm glad I didn't pay for that' follow up post.

kataras

08-10-2012, 03:08 PM

What they've tried to avoid is situations where the player is in a shadow, and a guard is looking right at them from 5 meters away.

Like what happened to me in ThiefII yesterday, I was crouched at a dark corner and had three guard crotches in my face. They were looking for me, they were rubbing their crotches against my face but they could not see me. Finally after 5 minutes they realised someone was there.

SectoidBro

08-10-2012, 03:12 PM

Like what happened to me in ThiefII yesterday, I was crouched at a dark corner and had three guard crotches in my face. They were looking for me, they were rubbing their crotches against my face but they could not see me. Finally after 5 minutes they realised someone was there.

... That sounds like slash fanfic.

JackShandy

08-10-2012, 03:28 PM

Weird to see so many negative comments.

frightlever

08-10-2012, 03:35 PM

Weird to see so many negative comments.

New to the internet?

Unaco

08-10-2012, 03:47 PM

Weird to see so many negative comments.

Not really... It's a big AAA game, that received a lot of press attention, that's trying to hark back to a period in gaming from about 10 years ago without slavishly copying games from that era, that is receiving universally positive reviews from the gaming press. Just one of those would be cause for the Angry Internet Men to rear their heads... them all together makes for a Perfect Storm of sh*tflinging.

Choca

08-10-2012, 03:56 PM

Weird to see so many negative comments.

It's a great game really, people will bash it because they can but I really did enjoy it. It's not the best game ever though.

Mohorovicic

08-10-2012, 05:18 PM

Weird to see so many negative comments.

Trying to make up for all the OMG DISHONORED BY THAT ONE GUY WHO ONCE DID THAT OTHER THING AND THOSE OTHER GUYS? OMG PREORDERED 7 COPIES

Oak

08-10-2012, 05:27 PM

We appreciate your contributions to the cause, Comrade-in-Misery.

SirKicksalot

08-10-2012, 05:28 PM

First impressions that I've heard from non PR monkeys (normal people) is that the stealth is not comparable to Thief at all.
No light/shadows based stealth or anything good like that.

MW2 game 'its biggest problem is that it's almost too good'

You can hide in the shadows but guards will notice you if you're close. Just like in real life.
I think the "almost too good" game was Gears 2.

Trying to make up for all the OMG DISHONORED BY THAT ONE GUY WHO ONCE DID THAT OTHER THING AND THOSE OTHER GUYS? OMG PREORDERED 7 COPIES

Who gives a shit?

Kadayi

08-10-2012, 05:30 PM

Trying to make up for all the OMG DISHONORED BY THAT ONE GUY WHO ONCE DID THAT OTHER THING AND THOSE OTHER GUYS? OMG PREORDERED 7 COPIES

Lay off the coffee

Mohorovicic

08-10-2012, 05:37 PM

I don't drink coffee.

Sketch

08-10-2012, 05:41 PM

Puppy tears, no doubt.

Fanbuoy

08-10-2012, 06:19 PM

I don't drink coffee.

You don't drink coffee? Oh my. I drink coffee and I really look forward to trying the game.

carnage4u

08-10-2012, 06:21 PM

I've read some good reviews on this game. With X-Com coming out same though and a strong addiction to borderlands2, I might have to wait for Steam Winter deals before I manage to pick this game up.

Kadayi

08-10-2012, 07:10 PM

Puppy tears, no doubt.

Vinegar I'd hazard. It's the only thing that could account for the unending bitterness.

SectoidBro

08-10-2012, 08:22 PM

I've read some good reviews on this game. With X-Com coming out same though and a strong addiction to borderlands2, I might have to wait for Steam Winter deals before I manage to pick this game up.

Agree. I'm not 100% sure I can wait that long, but I am certain that if Dishonored gets a discount come Christmastime, it will clean up.

Giaddon

09-10-2012, 02:51 AM

Arkane talked about the decision to drop a light-based stealth system here:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-09-29-why-dishonored-ditched-its-thief-shadow-stealth-mechanic

JackShandy

09-10-2012, 02:59 AM

Trying to make up for all the OMG DISHONORED BY THAT ONE GUY WHO ONCE DID THAT OTHER THING AND THOSE OTHER GUYS? OMG PREORDERED 7 COPIES

Well, that's a horrifying look inside your mind.

(Somewhere in the darkness, Mohorovicic sniffs the air. What's that, on the breeze? The sickening stench of someone being positive about a videogame? He readies his keyboard with a grim shake of the head. Not tonight.)

gundato

09-10-2012, 03:21 AM

Looks really good, but I already have a pretty nice backlog of games I want to play and there are no particular pre-order incentives I care about (I already own Arx three times over :p), so I'll probably end up grabbing this during the next Steam sale.

And I am glad that they got rid of the light gem. I always found Thief stealth to be somewhat artificial because of it. Obviously it wasn't really doable back then (still isn't, really), but line of sight stealth is MUCH more fun.

Vinegar I'd hazard. It's the only thing that could account for the unending bitterness.
Lay's ketchup flavored potato chips are WAY too vinegary. It saddens me

hamster

09-10-2012, 04:28 AM

Looks really good, but I already have a pretty nice backlog of games I want to play and there are no particular pre-order incentives I care about (I already own Arx three times over :p), so I'll probably end up grabbing this during the next Steam sale.

And I am glad that they got rid of the light gem. I always found Thief stealth to be somewhat artificial because of it. Obviously it wasn't really doable back then (still isn't, really), but line of sight stealth is MUCH more fun.

There was line of sight. Guys would detect you easier if they were staring straight at you. The light gem just indicated how much light was on you.

Mohorovicic

09-10-2012, 07:27 AM

A Dishonored defense article? Already?

I appreciate it's not Gillen this time(though I would also appreciate if it was, for the completeness sake) but good lord, RPS masters, at least let us try and play the game to make some complaints first! Us lowly non-gaming journalism life forms are bound by release dates. And things like, jobs or school.

Doesn'tmeananything

09-10-2012, 08:05 AM

Yeah, it's dumb. I don't understand how's that indicative of the game's quality, though. RPS' critical output has been terrible for a long time now (unless it's Rossignol's name in the byline, with several notable exceptions), and Meer in particular has a habit for arguing from very dubious premises.

But the important thing to remember is that the game is developed by Harvey Smith, and it's impossible to reduce this fact to an ironic statement about whoever you were trying to parody in that post of yours. He's the guy who gets immersive simulation (by being partially responsible for the pinnacle of that genre) and he had a big budget and a fair amount of freedom to make the game he wants. Bethesda meant silly marketing campaign and good scores for this game, but that's as far as it could reach, really.

It's still natural to remain sceptical in these circumstances. I just don't see how you cannot be at least a little bit excited about Dishonoured.

Kadayi

09-10-2012, 08:22 AM

Well, that's a horrifying look inside your mind.

(Somewhere in the darkness, Mohorovicic sniffs the air. What's that, on the breeze? The sickening stench of someone being positive about a videogame? He readies his keyboard with a grim shake of the head. Not tonight.)

*chortles*

I think he's one of those people who believes that being negative makes him come across as deep and meaningful.

Finicky

09-10-2012, 08:30 AM

I like the part where me stating that hype from reviews is not a valid metric to judge the quality of a game by, and that it's probably wise to wait and see what friends/gamers think (as is always the case), immediately got interpreted as me hating on the game (and for the sake of hating on games to boot).

I haven't said a single bad thing about the game other than the animations sucking (they do), saying that the stealth is not shadow based is not bashing anything (which is a good thing to point out for those expecting thief 2012, else you get the inevitable "I bought it because people said it was like thief").

You see the same hype cycle for every new big release, to the point that it cheapens any valid positive opinions that might emerge about a genuinly good release. My wording should only be offensive to those who are desperate to get excited for each new game that gets a lot of hype.

And yes that includes all the review sites linked in the OP, they are hardly critical of B grade "AAA" games, so I'm going to meet their praise with cynicism.

Oh shame on me for wanting to wait for an objective view of something I'm interested in buying, the audacity.

JackShandy

09-10-2012, 08:39 AM

Oh shame on me for wanting to wait for an objective view of something I'm interested in buying, the audacity.

Who are you talking to?

SirKicksalot

09-10-2012, 08:50 AM

This is what objective reviews look like. (http://www.destructoid.com/100-objective-review-final-fantasy-xiii-179178.phtml)

Diesel-

09-10-2012, 09:39 AM

Ofcourse its GOTY contender. i have been hyping it since first reveal. Cant wait to play

in a age where lot of games are QTE fest linear scripted game. this game is must own.

NathanH

09-10-2012, 09:49 AM

Why? Care to elaborate? To me LOS-stealth taking into account sounds makes a lot of sense. More than a light-meter.

With light-based stealth, things move at your pace. You're in control. You can watch the little rats scurrying here and there on their patrols, but they can't see you, they can't find you. You're on the outside peering in, the ultimate voyeur, but here at last you are also in control. This sings out to the video game nerd, who goes through life as if in his own personal patch of shadows. Here at last, this social construct designed to exclude us from society is inverted, and we gain all the benefits. What's the best part of Thief? Not the blackjacking, not the stealing. It's standing right next to two guards having a conversation about you. The ultimate voyeur. And isn't it beautiful that Garrett is perhaps the weakest FPS protagonist ever, but is also the most powerful? Hell, the lore of Thief has the Keepers possessing not magical powers, just the knack of making everyone ignoring them. They're elevated being a social misfit to an art form.

Line of sight based stealth, on the other hand, leaves you entirely at the mercy of the guards and their patrols. You move at their pace. You go where they allow you. You step in time to their march or you die. It's stressful, it grinds you down, until you're dancing to the whirr-whirr-whirr of the modern corporate machine. There's no freedom here, just the demand of mainstream society: conform or perish.

Mohorovicic

09-10-2012, 10:12 AM

I shall call it "The Predator Complex"

Expect a publication in December's Nature.

Makariel

09-10-2012, 10:44 AM

You're on the outside peering in, the ultimate voyeur, but here at last you are also in control. This sings out to the video game nerd, who goes through life as if in his own personal patch of shadows. Here at last, this social construct designed to exclude us from society is inverted, and we gain all the benefits.
Interesting. I never looked at it this way, but as a rather archaic gameplay mechanic which results in sometimes hilarious video-gamey-situations when a guard basically slams his crotch against my avatars head repeatedly but can't see the culprit because the light-meter says so. But I also get detached quite easy from the game world when something happens that doesn't make sense to me. Like not being able to move like a normal person in Resident Evil. Or when the world stops working just because I don't walk to the next trigger in Call of Duty. Hence I always found the light-meter-stealth system in Thief a bit odd.

Line of sight based stealth, on the other hand, leaves you entirely at the mercy of the guards and their patrols. You move at their pace. You go where they allow you. You step in time to their march or you die. It's stressful, it grinds you down, until you're dancing to the whirr-whirr-whirr of the modern corporate machine. There's no freedom here, just the demand of mainstream society: conform or perish.
Yes, LOS-based stealth is more about rhythm. It's the guitar hero amongst stealth systems. But a well made LOS-based stealth system doesn't make you the slave of the machine. You are the disturbing factor, taking out parts of the machine piece by piece, destroying the construct in the process. I like analyzing seemingly perfect running systems and then disturb them, dismantle or subvert them.

JackShandy

09-10-2012, 11:08 AM

You're in control. You can watch the little rats scurrying here and there on their patrols, but they can't see you, they can't find you.

Poetry aside, Dishonoured has a "Dark Vision" mode that lets you see enemies and their vision cones through walls. So you can still watch enemies before they can see you.

NathanH

09-10-2012, 11:16 AM

Interesting. I never looked at it this way, but as a rather archaic gameplay mechanic which results in sometimes hilarious video-gamey-situations when a guard basically slams his crotch against my avatars head repeatedly but can't see the culprit because the light-meter says so. But I also get detached quite easy from the game world when something happens that doesn't make sense to me. Like not being able to move like a normal person in Resident Evil. Or when the world stops working just because I don't walk to the next trigger in Call of Duty. Hence I always found the light-meter-stealth system in Thief a bit odd.

In Deadly Shadows they introduced a couple of things to stop these events: if you bump into a guard or a guard bumps into you, they detect you; also if they get close enough they automatically see you---effectively, it's LOS-only stealth at very short distances. Any new light-based stealth game should use both these features to eliminate such odd behaviour.

Kadayi

09-10-2012, 11:23 AM

I like the part where me stating that hype from reviews is not a valid metric to judge the quality of a game by, and that it's probably wise to wait and see what friends/gamers think (as is always the case), immediately got interpreted as me hating on the game (and for the sake of hating on games to boot).

Hmm: -

Guess we'll hear in a few days if it's any good at all, PR mouthpiece opinions are about as valuable as shit at a pigfarm.

Somehow the former statement seems to bear zero resemblance to the latter. The good folks at RPS give you this forum to post in gratis and you use it as a platform to disparage them wholesale....

Diesel-

09-10-2012, 11:30 AM

See, hopefully this is what i expected all FPS games to turn into after SS2 / Deus Ex.

Actually, is it weird that i'm kind of surprised that it's getting great scores? I half expected modern reviewers to be unimpressed by that type of gameplay.

I didnot expect that high score knowing corrupt mainstream media only praise games like COD.

Mohorovicic

09-10-2012, 12:11 PM

This isn't about gameplay or bribes. It's all about pedigre and hype. Games like Dishonored, made by that one guy and that other team and published by oh hey it's these guys simply don't get low scores because their reputation preceeds them. It's just too big of a title to give a low score to and all professional game journalists "know" this.

It's easy to bash videogames more or less anonymously on the Internet - I know it all too well - but if reviewing is your job and the bread on your table depends on it you're likely to at least play it safe, or more commonly just go with the flow. For example many of people here bash Call of Duty games, but if you worked full time as a game journalist in, say, Eurogamer, would you really have the nerve to give a game that sells 4.7 million copies in 24 hours a low score? Or even a lukewarm one like 6-7/10?

Makariel

09-10-2012, 12:21 PM

In Deadly Shadows they introduced a couple of things to stop these events: if you bump into a guard or a guard bumps into you, they detect you; also if they get close enough they automatically see you---effectively, it's LOS-only stealth at very short distances. Any new light-based stealth game should use both these features to eliminate such odd behaviour.
Ah, ok. Agreed there. I didn't play Deadly Shadows for some reason I can't remember. Maybe I should remedy that.

Kadayi

09-10-2012, 12:28 PM

@Mohorovicic

A reviewers job is not to 'bash' things though, it's to assess them against the marketplace. Like it or not plain truth of the matter is games like the MW series are well made gaming experiences, thus why they score high (as games they are extremely well crafted). They might not be your particular cup of tea, but that's not a valid criteria to assess them by.

As regards reputation. Generally it's the case that when someones been doing something for a while, they tend to possess a degree of competence at it, and rarely end up shitting the bed. Sure it can happen (Prometheus is a good example), but it tends to be the exception rather than the rule.

DaftPunk

09-10-2012, 12:38 PM

Welcome Diesel,didn't expect you here so soon xD

Subatomic

09-10-2012, 12:46 PM

@Mohorovicic

A reviewers job is not to 'bash' things though, it's to assess them against the marketplace. Like it or not plain truth of the matter is games like the MW series are well made gaming experiences, thus why they score high (as games they are extremely well crafted). They might not be your particular cup of tea, but that's not a valid criteria to assess them by.

It's a little bit of both I think. Big AAA games are for the most part certainly well made if 'safe' gaming experiences, so there's really no need to bash them for that or review those games badly out of spite. On the other hand, you can't really deny that certain names, be it developers, franchises or publishers, seem to have a bit of a bonus attached when it comes down to pinning a score to a game, which a less well known name wouldn't get.

Sketch

09-10-2012, 12:51 PM

I dunno, Syndicate and Medal of Honor scored comparatively low (70s I think, but in this day and age that's a bit of death sentence for a game) Dante's Inferno too...I don't think it's so much reviews being bought out, just rather the whole issue of scores themselves.

Diesel-

09-10-2012, 12:54 PM

Welcome Diesel,didn't expect you here so soon xD

thanks man. new GT suck and its now ghost town. MODS ruined that place. I got banned for dumbest reason ever. for hating Final Fantasy game. lol

deano2099

09-10-2012, 01:29 PM

For example many of people here bash Call of Duty games, but if you worked full time as a game journalist in, say, Eurogamer, would you really have the nerve to give a game that sells 4.7 million copies in 24 hours a low score? Or even a lukewarm one like 6-7/10?

Yes, if I didn't like it. Though first I would tell my editor that I'm probably not the best person for that review as it's not my sort of game, and I don't have much experience with them.

Also, this is RPS, who slated the last Call of Duty, and have even criticised the more 'sophisticated' critical darlings like New Vegas.

Kadayi

09-10-2012, 01:41 PM

It's a little bit of both I think. Big AAA games are for the most part certainly well made if 'safe' gaming experiences, so there's really no need to bash them for that or review those games badly out of spite. On the other hand, you can't really deny that certain names, be it developers, franchises or publishers, seem to have a bit of a bonus attached when it comes down to pinning a score to a game, which a less well known name wouldn't get.

I think we've had some examples of disconnect between reviewer opinion Vs player opinion (Mass Effect 3 being the most notable one) by I'd say in large that's because the focus for reviewers puts far greater emphasis on gameplay mechanics rather than storyline. Mechanistically ME3 is a pretty solid gaming experience and by that criteria alone it kind of justifies its high scores. The fact that the last ten minutes ruined the storyline for a great many people who were heavily invested in it from a narrative perspective wasn't something that reviewers were necessarily looking at. Do I think they were all paid off shills? No. I just don't think that for many of them storyline continuity was that big issue, because by on large they're nowhere near as invested in the game and the characters as your avid ME fan whose got multiple playthroughs of the first two games under their belt.

Personally I'd like to see storyline assessment play a much bigger role in the reviews system, where applicable (RPGs, Action adventure, etc), because increasingly technical constraints are less and less of an issue, but that's only going to happen over time.

deano2099

09-10-2012, 01:51 PM

I think we've had some examples of disconnect between reviewer opinion Vs player opinion (Mass Effect 3 being the most notable one) by I'd say in large that's because the focus for reviewers puts far greater emphasis on gameplay mechanics rather than storyline. Mechanistically ME3 is a pretty solid gaming experience and by that criteria alone it kind of justifies its high scores. The fact that the last ten minutes ruined the storyline for a great many people who were heavily invested in it from a narrative perspective wasn't something that reviewers were necessarily looking at.

There's something in reviewing methodology in that case too. As you play, you fill a notebook with observations and comments about the game. The last entry in that notebook might be "Ending: fucking awful". For a lot of players, that's their last experience with the game, from which they form an impression. But the reviewer then has to go back over the notebook, revisit all the awesome bits (both mechanical and story/character) from earlier in the game. Indeed, I'd argue they wouldn't be doing their job if they let the ending overshadow the rest of the game.

Heliocentric

09-10-2012, 01:58 PM

In LOS stealth if you can "disturb" guards by throwing a rock, or tapping a wall (or whistling like Sam Fisher) then it great. You are surfing the principles of the AI, leave a door open just so the guard goes to check it, switch off a light or move a box so a guard walks around it (or prods it suspiciously). All valid.

With light-based stealth, things move at your pace. You're in control. You can watch the little rats scurrying here and there on their patrols, but they can't see you, they can't find you. You're on the outside peering in, the ultimate voyeur, but here at last you are also in control. This sings out to the video game nerd, who goes through life as if in his own personal patch of shadows. Here at last, this social construct designed to exclude us from society is inverted, and we gain all the benefits. What's the best part of Thief? Not the blackjacking, not the stealing. It's standing right next to two guards having a conversation about you. The ultimate voyeur. And isn't it beautiful that Garrett is perhaps the weakest FPS protagonist ever, but is also the most powerful? Hell, the lore of Thief has the Keepers possessing not magical powers, just the knack of making everyone ignoring them. They're elevated being a social misfit to an art form.

Line of sight based stealth, on the other hand, leaves you entirely at the mercy of the guards and their patrols. You move at their pace. You go where they allow you. You step in time to their march or you die. It's stressful, it grinds you down, until you're dancing to the whirr-whirr-whirr of the modern corporate machine. There's no freedom here, just the demand of mainstream society: conform or perish.

Actually, that's not entirely true. In Thief, if there was a room highly iluminated and the guard was patroling on the other side, you didn't always have the chance to take him down in a stealthy way (first mission is the one that comes to my mind, the room in which you can steal the valuable things by going up in an elevator for food, don't remember its name in English). You were still on the guards' hands.

In Dishonored, anyway, there a mix between the two modes. As in Thief, you can look around a corner without being seen, or stay in the shadow (but at a logical distance), from where you still hear them, and you can look through keyholes listening to every single word. I've done a lot of eavesdropping in just the first missions of Dishonored, (the tutorial levels and the pub), and some of them were even completely casual. I was walking around the pub, and, when going for about the fourth time around the same corner, I heard two characters talking. I looked around the corner, and there they were, talking about wether they trusted me or not. And it felt real! I don't need to stay in the shadows just inches away from somebody to feel like the perfect voyeur, and in control...

Mohorovicic

09-10-2012, 03:44 PM

Actually, that's not entirely true. In Thief, if there was a room highly iluminated and the guard was patroling on the other side, you didn't always have the chance to take him down in a stealthy way (first mission is the one that comes to my mind, the room in which you can steal the valuable things by going up in an elevator for food, don't remember its name in English).

That was Thief 2. And don't forget that you could distract guards to force them to move/look away.

Also to set record straight: if an enemy walks into you in Thief - so that his model touches yours - you WILL be detected no matter how deep the shadow you're in is.

AlexClockwork

09-10-2012, 07:08 PM

That was Thief 2. And don't forget that you could distract guards to force them to move/look away.

OK, but that's not because of the light/shadows system, that's what I mean. You can do the same in a LOS system.

Also to set record straight: if an enemy walks into you in Thief - so that his model touches yours - you WILL be detected no matter how deep the shadow you're in is.

Of course. But they can still be inches away from you and don't give a shit. I tried Thief (only the second, sorry) recently and I loved it (not as much as Dishonored, for the moment, but I have to play more of both), but it's not realistic at all.

Sketch

09-10-2012, 09:18 PM

To those who've started it, what difficulty should be selected for a first run?

AlonePlusEasyTarget

09-10-2012, 09:23 PM

Very hard would be good I suppose if you're going for stealthy approach.

Giaddon

09-10-2012, 11:38 PM

I'm playing hard and it feels good. I've notice that if I am surprised by enemies I usually die, while if I get the drop on them, I usually win.

Giaddon

09-10-2012, 11:41 PM

Also, I have definitely had a guard touch Garret in Theif 1 multiple times and not detect him.

AlexClockwork

09-10-2012, 11:53 PM

Very hard would be good I suppose if you're going for stealthy approach.

Yep, I'm playing Very Hard and liking it too... I'm trying not to kill anyone, so I'm doing a lot of F5-F9, though. Next playthough I'll just go on whatever I do.

Shenanigans

09-10-2012, 11:54 PM

Oh noes other people in the world might be playing a game before me!!! Oh the tyranny.

Oh noes other people in the world might be watching a TV show before me!!! Oh the tyranny. Seems like a perfectly good reason to pirate the show and deny the people producing it their ad revenue.

The irony, it blinds.

SirKicksalot

09-10-2012, 11:56 PM

Seems like a perfectly good reason to pirate the show and deny the people producing it their ad revenue.

What if I use a DVR that skips the ads?

Kadayi

10-10-2012, 12:14 AM

What if I use a DVR that skips the ads?

Careful Kicks, you might have just rained on Shenanigans parade there. I'm sure he was attempting to make a point of some kind. Though I'm not sure how drawing parallels between a games that's actually being released in a few days here in UK Vs a TV show that's not broadcast here at all makes much sense outside of his luminous imagination.

Polycrates

10-10-2012, 01:28 AM

In Dishonored, anyway, there a mix between the two modes. As in Thief, you can look around a corner without being seen, or stay in the shadow (but at a logical distance), from where you still hear them, and you can look through keyholes listening to every single word. I've done a lot of eavesdropping in just the first missions of Dishonored, (the tutorial levels and the pub), and some of them were even completely casual. I was walking around the pub, and, when going for about the fourth time around the same corner, I heard two characters talking. I looked around the corner, and there they were, talking about wether they trusted me or not. And it felt real! I don't need to stay in the shadows just inches away from somebody to feel like the perfect voyeur, and in control...

As well as that, this is a game that (so far - I've just finished the first post-pub mission) really uses its vertical dimension, and your character is pretty good at getting up high pretty easily. So perching up above your enemies seems like it's this game's equivalent of a "safe" shadow from which you can observe with relatively little danger. With the magic eye spell and the keyhole peeking and the zoom-eye upgrades, there does seem to be plenty of ways to observe enemies from relative safety. Plus the blink ability means you don't necessarily have to hide so close to your target, so there's less need to be near-invisible at such close ranges and less need for quite so many safe hiding spots (and it can be a very useful panic button to get to a safe distance if someone does start to get suspicious). There is also definitely a difference in the range enemies will spot you from depending on how well-lit you are. I dunno, so far the stealth system is working for me pretty well.

Also I'm playing on Hard, and I think it's a pretty good difficulty so far; it might just be that I haven't mastered the combat yet, but getting into an actual fight rarely seems to end particularly well and stealth is definitely favoured.

Finicky

10-10-2012, 02:36 AM

Oh noes other people in the world might be watching a TV show before me!!! Oh the tyranny. Seems like a perfectly good reason to pirate the show and deny the people producing it their ad revenue.

The irony, it blinds.
You are my new favorite poster.

off topic but delicious:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=495020

Would be cool if someone could paraphrase the gibberish formatting from the social networking crap into humanspeak though.

Spider Jerusalem

10-10-2012, 03:10 AM

i've bounced off this game pretty hard, as it were.

at least there's xcom. sweet, sweet xcom.

ShEsHy

10-10-2012, 07:19 AM

How is it possible that the only games I couldn't play for more than 30 minutes are Bethesda's games (F:NV and Dishonored)?
Now I don't mean the story, since I quit before I actually got too far into it and would be forced to complete it (it's a personality thing), but the game is bad, there's no other way of putting it. The mouse has some weird kinks (similar to negative acceleration, but not quite it), the textures are cartoonish, the interface is consolish (not to mention the unskippable intros and lines of dialogue, the "press any key to continue" bulls##t,...), the writing is bad (at least is was up to the point I quit) and I could go on, but I'll rather stop before I write something that will get me banned :).
The only good thing I found about Dishonored was the song in the credits, which I thought was awesome.

JackShandy

10-10-2012, 08:21 AM

The mouse has some weird kinks (similar to negative acceleration, but not quite it), the textures are cartoonish, the interface is consolish (not to mention the unskippable intros and lines of dialogue, the "press any key to continue" bulls##t,...), the writing is bad.

These issues seem mostly trivial, to be honest. They really turned you off before you even played half an hour? Be honest. Did you actually pay money for this game?

Kadayi

10-10-2012, 08:41 AM

You are my new favorite poster.

Because his understanding of how ad revenue is generated is as shaky as your understanding of how games are financed?

off topic but delicious

Career meltdown time. Still nothing about actual bribes in there.

ShEsHy

10-10-2012, 08:50 AM

These issues seem mostly trivial, to be honest. They really turned you off before you even played half an hour? Be honest. Did you actually pay money for this game?
They might be trivial to most, but they're huge to me. I decide if I like a game in the first hour, so if it doesn't "feel" right (in RPGs and FPSs, the most important issue for me is mouse control, and if it doesn't behave the same as it does on my desktop I will most likely stop playing), I won't ever enjoy it. Take F:NV for example, it didn't feel right either, and even though I really liked some of the mods for it on Nexus (plus the DLCs looked pretty good too) and I still regularly play F3, everytime I reinstalled it to try and enjoy them I just couldn't get past those trivial issues it had and stopped playing.

P.S.
And yes, I did buy the game. I didn't want to, but I did.

Harlander

10-10-2012, 08:59 AM

P.S.
And yes, I did buy the game. I didn't want to, but I did.

What compelled you to act against your inclinations in this instance?

Kadayi

10-10-2012, 09:22 AM

@ShEsHy

You realise that neither Dishonored or F:NV were made my Bethesda btw. Bethesda are the publishers, not the developers.

Revisor

10-10-2012, 09:23 AM

So, I've been playing it since yesterday. It's one of the best games in the last 10 years. Everything just clicks, everything works, the gameplay, exploration, level design, attention to detail are perfect.

The stealth works great, the movement is wonderfully fluid. What surprised me is the verticality in the architecture design. There is always a new path if you look up.

Also the PC port is flawless, a lot of options, very fast loading times.

This is not a game of the year, for me it's the game of the decade.

Woundedbum: I've been playing on Hard difficulty and enjoying it a lot. Looks like sweet spot for a first playthrough for someone enjoying Thief and System Shock.

Edit: One more thing, I played the first mission for about 6 hours, exploring everything, taking it in. I wasn't dawdling, mind you. It really took me so long to traverse and explore the level.

ShEsHy

10-10-2012, 09:44 AM

What compelled you to act against your inclinations in this instance?
Mainly that it's from Bethesda, but also all the hype.

@ShEsHy

You realise that neither Dishonored or F:NV were made my Bethesda btw. Bethesda are the publishers, not the developers.
Yea, I know. But Bethesda kinda has a reputation for publishing games that generally fall under a similar category, and it just so happens that I like the same thing.

JackShandy

10-10-2012, 09:44 AM

They might be trivial to most, but they're huge to me.

Well, fair enough. I don't want to tell you you're wrong to feel that way. I do really disagree with one point, though:

the textures are cartoonish

-that's the games' art style, which is beautiful.

Edit:

How is it possible that the only games I couldn't play for more than 30 minutes are Bethesda's games

What compelled you to (buy the game)?

Mainly that it's from Bethesda

ShEsHy

10-10-2012, 09:50 AM

Some people think Borderlands' style is beautiful while I think it's ugly and annoying, so let's just say we agree to disagree :).

Bethesda's games only ammount to a small percentage of my total game collection.

MD!

10-10-2012, 12:15 PM

I get where you're coming from, Sheshy. Bad mouse input alone can kill a game for me. It's not a matter of principle, of deciding not to like the game because it doesn't meet my checklist. I just don't enjoy playing games that 'feel wrong'. If I'm going to spend hours moving around a virtual world, I need to enjoy that movement, or at least not be put off by it.

Revisor

10-10-2012, 12:57 PM

The mouse acceleration can be turned off and I have no problem with the controls whatsoever. Of course I spent the first hour tuning the keyboard layout.

Barnox

10-10-2012, 01:17 PM

Yeah, first thing I did was look at the controls, max out mouse speed and turn off acceleration and smoothing.
Bloody fantastic game, I say, even thought I only got up to the first Wall of Light.

If anyone else was worried about the mechanics behind mana and Blink (I know I was, wondering if you get infinite Blink jumps when they said you have finite mana) I've marked it in spoilers below (because useful information, but something you discover early on)
A small portion of the mana bar regenerates, letting you activate Dark Vision or Blink effectively for free every few seconds.

ComradePenguin

10-10-2012, 01:22 PM

Has anyone tried it with a controller yet? My PC set up is currently in a state of flux (I can only play on a TV and sitting on a couch) so mouse and keyboard are out for the minute. I assume it must be okay given it has come out on consoles and doesn't focus on shooting but I'm worried the blink mechanic will be a pain.

Sparkasaurusmex

10-10-2012, 02:52 PM

So this game is awesome.
I finally got to the first actual mission and I can't advance! I just reload the save at the beginning of the level and go take out the first guards I see in some way I haven't done before... reload and do it again, differently! Great fun.

I have a question for others playing- Is there a way to just nudge or push a guard? There are so many standing precariously close to ledges!

Barnox

10-10-2012, 03:41 PM

Unless you invest points in Fus Ro Dah, I don't think so.
Maybe parry them? It seems to make them recoil a fair bit, but it is hardly stealthy.

I also noticed that you can choke hold and drag them back a bit at the same time. I think. Further testing is needed!

Sparkasaurusmex

10-10-2012, 03:45 PM

Yeah sometimes it feels like I can pull a guard while choking, but other times it seems to not respond if I try to move back.

I will experiment with just sprinting into their backs to knock them over. I can't parry them because I want to do it from behind, and Parry becomes choke (I don't mind context sensitive buttons, but I'd prefer otherwise).

b0rsuk

10-10-2012, 04:20 PM

It might be because old-school games were designed to be fun to play, but new school games seem to be designed to be fun to watch.

You can't put "fun to play" in a trailer.

Revisor

10-10-2012, 04:47 PM

You can drag the guards but only backwards. Not forward, not sideways.
Also there is a power to blow the enemies away, but I'm not sure how noisy and effective it is, since I haven't invested in it yet.

peschiNL

10-10-2012, 04:57 PM

amazing game, and:

- you can turn off mouse smoothing/acceleration

- you can turn off the objective pointers, not in options, but in your journal, press shift to turn it off

- great performance also, my rig is below minimum specs, it runs beautiful on high settings

- you can turn off the objective pointers, not in options, but in your journal, press shift to turn it off

- great performance also, my rig is below minimum specs, it runs beautiful on high settings

and my favorite- the install location is just full of *.ini files!

Giaddon

10-10-2012, 10:28 PM

I have a question for others playing- Is there a way to just nudge or push a guard? There are so many standing precariously close to ledges!

Slide into them. They may notice you as you sprint toward them, though :)

MD!

10-10-2012, 10:58 PM

After turning off smoothing and acceleration, is the mouse still dodgy? A lot of modern games have pretty bad input lag, which I think tends to be a certain number of frames -- so at a low framerate it will feel terrible, and at a high framerate relatively okay.

DaftPunk

10-10-2012, 10:59 PM

Edit. Ups wrong thread.

Sparkasaurusmex

11-10-2012, 03:19 AM

After turning off smoothing and acceleration, is the mouse still dodgy?
With mouse smoothing off and VSync off the mouse controls are spot on.

Hensler

11-10-2012, 01:25 PM

Anybody know if guards killing each other with friendly fire and splash damage is going to count as murders I committed when I get to the end of a mission?

Barnox

11-10-2012, 01:37 PM

I'm not too sure.

I was sure I didn't kill anyone during mission #1 or #2, yet events during each had people dying, but not by my hand.
Mission #1 ended with a death toll of 1.
Mission #2 ended with a death toll of 0.

I'm wondering, then, how it differentiates between you KO-ing someone and them being eaten by roaming rats, or if the rats were released by an area by you (like by removing oil batteries or opening doors).
Maybe it counts as a kill in each?

Polycrates

11-10-2012, 01:55 PM

I'm wondering, then, how it differentiates between you KO-ing someone and them being eaten by roaming rats, or if the rats were released by an area by you (like by removing oil batteries or opening doors).
Maybe it counts as a kill in each?

Some people think Borderlands' style is beautiful while I think it's ugly and annoying, so let's just say we agree to disagree :).

The problem is though that playing the first half an hour of a game and then dismissing it is kind of akin to watching the first 5 minutes of a film and writing it off. How much credence is anyone supposed to give your assessment at the end of the day?

Mohorovicic

11-10-2012, 02:10 PM

He's saying he doesn't like the art style. It's not like it's going to change halfway through the game.

Shooop

11-10-2012, 02:32 PM

Let's get to what actually matters.

How are people who are actually playing the game liking it so far? What's good and what's not so good?

Kadayi

11-10-2012, 02:35 PM

He's saying he doesn't like the art style. It's not like it's going to change halfway through the game.

*sigh*

No he wasn't. His analogy regarding the borderlands art style was an attempt to validate his half baked opinions with respect to his earlier comment about Dishonored: -

Now I don't mean the story, since I quit before I actually got too far into it and would be forced to complete it (it's a personality thing), but the game is bad, there's no other way of putting it. The mouse has some weird kinks (similar to negative acceleration, but not quite it), the textures are cartoonish, the interface is consolish (not to mention the unskippable intros and lines of dialogue, the "press any key to continue" bulls##t,...), the writing is bad (at least is was up to the point I quit) and I could go on, but I'll rather stop before I write something that will get me banned :).

The guy played barely half an hour yet assures us the game is bad.

Hensler

11-10-2012, 02:38 PM

Yep, just finished the level and enemies killing each other with friendly fire counted as me killing someone. Drats.

kataras

11-10-2012, 03:35 PM

I m half-way through the 1st real level after the tutorial and these are some random thoughts:

I like it so far and I really love the art style although it does seem a bit washed out at some points.

I like the stealth and the different routes you can take. I might have preferred shadow/light system but LOS is good for me.

Somehow it reminds me of DX:HR. I think that, like DX:HR, I will sneak my way through most levels only to get fed up during the last two and proceed to murder everyone.

Also I don't understand why people worry so much about killing/incapacitating. Kill or incapacitate as you please, who cares about scores at the end of the level. Since it's set in a dystopia, I think I will become an agent of chaos. The guards should have found a different job like all honest people.

I can imagine that the supernatural powers can become OP later on.

I loved it when while sneaking in a house I accidentally pushed a glass that was on a table. It fell down and the guards came in the room to see what made the noise.

I don't like the locked camera during cut-scences and that the maximum you can set FOV to is 85. At least there is an option to increase it though.

It's running flawlessly on my PC and loads instantly.

The story doesn't seem to be anything special so far but might become more interesting. or not.

Revisor

11-10-2012, 04:31 PM

How are people who are actually playing the game liking it so far? What's good and what's not so good?
I already replied a few posts ago.

In short: It's a wonderful game where everything works perfectly or nearly perfectly. Unlike during my first post I'm already deep in the game (near the end I suspect sadly). The level design is superb, your movement through the architecture unhindered, there is no signposting of alternate routes, they just flow naturally. The amount of details is astonishing, from NPC diaries, overheard dialogues, explorer logs, letters, to how your choices affect the world.

The best thing for me (explorer gamer mostly) is that the whole game is stuffed with secret nooks, crannies, hardly accessible apartments, but doesn't force you to explore by achievements or XP (like Deus Ex: HR did).

The story, dialogues, storytelling and voice acting are all great. Sound design is almost up to the level of Thief.

It's one of the best games I've ever played, up there with Deus Ex, Thief, System Shock, living up to the nostalgia and then improving upon it, the return of the lost immersive son.

Well, that wasn't so short.

Shooop

11-10-2012, 05:10 PM

I already replied a few posts ago.

It got lost in the sea of bile of two angry posters yabbering at each other. Can't wait to start it up later today.

AlexClockwork

11-10-2012, 05:19 PM

Well, so far I'm loving the game, just a few problems... For example, during the first post-pub mission I incapacitated Curnow to safe him from being murdered, and got rid of the target on a no-lethal way. Then got back to Curnow, and had to take him to "a safe place". The bad thing is that I had my objectives marker turned of, and I had to put him into an specific container. How should I know where to take him without the marker? I eventually had to turn it on, since I didn't have any idea about which "safe-place" I had to take him to.

Apart from that, as I said, loving the game.

TillEulenspiegel

11-10-2012, 05:37 PM

I eventually had to turn [the objective marker] on
Ugh. This is why I don't trust games that have quest markers on by default with the "option" to turn them off. They design the game with markers in mind, and they never actually test that option.

Revisor

11-10-2012, 05:49 PM

I didn't have any problem with a missing quest marker (playing with a minimal HUD). I solved this particular situation in a different way.
Spoiler:
I saved Curnow by smashing the bottle of poisoned wine.

Barnox

11-10-2012, 05:51 PM

Actually, it is fairly reasonable in it's non-objectiveness.

Buildings are signposted as to what they are, some large structures carry maps of their layout and you can find everything else through exploration.

Although, I had to turn it on the first time in the pub to find Pierre.

EDIT:
Goddamnit every time I load the game I need to recalibrate all my settings.

EDIT2:
Also, first bug I came across. I chokegrabbed someone and pulled them back, and somehow moved halfway down the road. I was trying to pull him into a house midway down the road, and ended up at the gate at the end.

Ugh. This is why I don't trust games that have quest markers on by default with the "option" to turn them off. They design the game with markers in mind, and they never actually test that option.
Actually for the most part if feels like the opposite. That was one example.

A lot of things, like a heart that plays hotter-colder, seem built without waypoints in mind, and activating the waypoints basically breaks this item. Lucky each type of waypoint marker is a separate on/off option. And quest waypoints can easily be left "on" but disabled/enabled in the journal screen.

fuzzy logic

11-10-2012, 08:18 PM

Well, so far I'm loving the game, just a few problems... For example, during the first post-pub mission I incapacitated Curnow to safe him from being murdered, and got rid of the target on a no-lethal way. Then got back to Curnow, and had to take him to "a safe place". The bad thing is that I had my objectives marker turned of, and I had to put him into an specific container. How should I know where to take him without the marker? I eventually had to turn it on, since I didn't have any idea about which "safe-place" I had to take him to.

Apart from that, as I said, loving the game.

My thoughts exactly. Curse you, arbitrary safe spot!

This game certainly allows my explorer side to gorge itself. I spent 4 hours on the first post-tutorial mission. I still didn't find everything. I left a dog kennel I came across unexplored on purpose to leave something for my next playthrough.

For exploration, atmosphere, art design eye candy and being a sneaky magical ninja alone this game is awesome. I do have concerns about the limited number of magical abilities, and the small amount of weapons. I also don't really like the limitations on possession: I die when it dies, I can't do anything other than walk (as an animal). I wish they'd made possession more nuanced. Blink strangulation is pretty awesome though. Being able to blink while carrying a body does seem a bit OP :).

Awesome game, no regrets so far. This and Walking Dead are tied for my potential GOTY to date.

Revisor

11-10-2012, 08:41 PM

I disabled the heart markers right away, recommend the same to others.
You can still hear the position of magical items (and see them as an orange dot/outline), no need to see a huge sign on the screen all the time.

Wengart

11-10-2012, 08:56 PM

The game is bloody brilliant, and I implore you all to turn off quest markers. You may need to turn them on momentarily every couple of hours of play to find something, but in general it just makes the game so much better without them.

Sparkasaurusmex

11-10-2012, 09:04 PM

I like to check them at the beginning of a level, just to see the general direction of the goal. Mostly so I can avoid going there first.

Revisor

11-10-2012, 09:43 PM

Ending: Just want to say that if you don't add more wounds to the tormented city, if you are merciful and don't let the chaos rise, you are awarded with a beautiful ending.

Just finished it for the first time (estimated time 25 hours), this game is really something.

Barnox

11-10-2012, 10:37 PM

I just got to Lord Regent. Not sure on play time so far.
Only had one kill through the game so far. Not even sure who it was.

Is it just me, or are Sleep Darts rather OP? Especially against Overseers. They are pretty cheap (I've been getting a solid 50% cash on each level) and are a one-shot 'kill' on anything. Even if in combat, they have time for maybe one sword swing. Get Crossbow accuracy and reload and it's a machine sniper rifle.

And an amazing technique: Lean out, Blink behind.
Which is why I choke everyone. Feels fairer.

Revisor

11-10-2012, 10:55 PM

Sleep darts are strong, but you don't have enough of them for everyone.
And you still have to take care of the body. And it's not without noise.
And they don't work on the Tallboys.

What is really strong in tight situations is the stop time power - but that's again pretty expensive, in runes as well as mana.

Blink is THE power, at least for me. Blink and double jump provide so much fun. :)

SirKicksalot

12-10-2012, 04:46 AM

Man, that heart really is brilliant.

I killed a bunch of people. Feels good.

Polycrates

12-10-2012, 05:12 AM

Possession level 2 is a fantastic power too, especially when you've got guards sticking stubbornly in a group. Walk them to a hidden corner, dispossess, eliminate. It's almost a guaranteed safe knockout. Just save first because whether it will let you choke seems to be a little hit-and-miss after dispossessing.

Also yeah the heart is amazing. Is it supposed to be the heart of who I think it is?

Alex Bakke

12-10-2012, 01:39 PM

Just want to say that if you don't add more wounds to the tormented city, if you are merciful and don't let the chaos rise, you are awarded with a beautiful ending.

Just finished it for the first time (estimated time 25 hours), this game is really something.

Could you spoiler this please? I was reading this thread for info on whether I should get the game and now I've read a mechanical spoiler.

For people who finished it and want to talk about some details, please come here
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?6378-Dishonored-of-thieves-and-kings-Spoilers!-(Buy-it-play-it-then-come-here)

DarkFenix

12-10-2012, 01:53 PM

Finished last night too, low chaos run. I'd like to have done it with zero deaths, but it's bloody difficult not to kill anyone by accident. All it takes is a rat swarm you didn't see and that's that. Shame about the predictable 'plot twist', I think everyone saw it coming 50 miles away.

Derbefrier

12-10-2012, 03:43 PM

still early in the game but I am loving it. for my first run I decided just to murder anyone and everyone I can. When I decide to do another play through I will up it to the hardest difficulty and try to keep chaos as low as possible and not kill a soul. My first runs with these types of games are usually a bloodbath anyway though since I am getting used to the mechanics and tend to screw up a lot.

Shooop

12-10-2012, 04:04 PM

Not even done with the first actual assassination yet, but I feel like I know the world better than some FPS worlds I've played through entirely.

The heart may be the single best device ever conceived of.

And it's possible to kill pretty much every NPC you see. Every. That includes the boatman as I found out on sheer accident and immediately reloaded a save.

Barnox

12-10-2012, 11:51 PM

Finished it. It does get a bit weak after the Lord Regent mission.

Minor Spoiler:The first area after it is assassin spam, then River Krust spam.

Managed to complete it with only 2 kills. Gunna give a 'Bloody Ghost' run a go. Everyone dies, nobody sees.

Kevin

13-10-2012, 09:13 AM

This Penny Arcade comic (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/10/10) nicely encapsulates my thoughts on the story. It seemed a bit confused and more an amalgamation of "cool ideas" they cobbled together in a brainstorm session as opposed to something well put together by an actual writer.

*spoiler alert*
I would have expected them to delve more into what the supernatural events were all about (i.e. the Outsider and Grannie Rags) rather than them simply being half-assed explanations for why Corvo has magic powers or existing as a tumorous moral choice.

DarkFenix

14-10-2012, 12:54 AM

Just finished a pacifist ghost run on very hard. Zero kills, zero detection, zero difficulty too :/. Enemies are still basically blind on VH so long as you avoid being in a brightly lit area (or a sudden drop in fps makes you screw up a blink jump and land right in front of an enemy, but hey, that sort of shit is what save scumming is really for) and the difficulty doesn't make the AI any different or increase their numbers. I am disappoint.

Mohorovicic

17-10-2012, 11:48 AM

This Penny Arcade comic (http://penny-arcade.com/comic/2012/10/10) nicely encapsulates my thoughts on the story. It seemed a bit confused and more an amalgamation of "cool ideas" they cobbled together in a brainstorm session as opposed to something well put together by an actual writer.

Or artist. I simply don't understand the reason for the slightly cartoony style for characters and textures. You don't make a cartoony dystopia. That just doesn't work.

*spoiler alert*
I would have expected them to delve more into what the supernatural events were all about (i.e. the Outsider and Grannie Rags) rather than them simply being half-assed explanations for why Corvo has magic powers or existing as a tumorous moral choice.

Agreed on everything. Getting superpowers from a God you know nothing about just after the first mission was so bizarre. And so was the low chaos ending.

Well, I was preaching another Bioshock and that's exactly what it was; another attempt at an "ambitious" shooter that just fails and we get a slightly above average game where you simply choke enemies instead of shooting them in the face.

DaftPunk

17-10-2012, 12:17 PM

Mohorovicic@ Do you even like any game,because i only see you complaining about them how they suck and shit :D

AlexClockwork

17-10-2012, 03:50 PM

Mohorovicic@ Do you even like any game,because i only see you complaining about them how they suck and shit :D

I'm not him, but... No he doesn't. XD

Gamestatistics

30-12-2012, 08:40 AM

As you know, Dishonored already has received many awards, as well as very positive critics from the press. However, it is always interesting to have an idea of what the various players really thought of the game: did it fulfil their expectations? What are its main assets or flaws? How did they play for their first run?

In order to share your opinions about this game, here is a public survey about Dishonored, made by GameStatistics:

This survey is designed for any kind of player who already has played Dishonored, PC or consoles. It has not been asked by developers / publishers of the game, and answering it should not take more than 10 minutes. It will be open until end of next week.

In any cases, I will come back to you at the end of the survey to summary its main results.

Thanks in advance for your participation.

A few more information about GameStatistics:
GameStatistics makes quick and simple surveys on videogames topics. Only French players have been interviewed up to now, but we would like from now to have the opinions of English-speaking players too. The various sentences of the questionnaire may not be totally appropriate / correctly written, but do no hesitate to make any comments or suggestion about this (so as we can improve this part for further surveys)

Moraven

12-09-2013, 09:29 PM

Dishonored is getting a GOTY edition with all the DLC.

I held off this summer once the August DLC was annouced. Seems I will be waiting until Steam holiday sale to pick this up.

mouton

13-09-2013, 12:21 AM

The usual question, is the DLC even worth it? It rarely is, in my experience.

Serenegoose

13-09-2013, 12:25 AM

The usual question, is the DLC even worth it? It rarely is, in my experience.

Yes. The story DLC is like dishonored, but with better characters, a better story, and on the whole, better levels, with a slightly rejigged power set that keeps it interesting.

Rizlar

13-09-2013, 12:28 AM

The usual question, is the DLC even worth it? It rarely is, in my experience.

According to RPS, yes. http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/08/16/wot-i-think-dishonored-the-brigmore-witches/

Already picked up the game and Knife of Dunwall for relatively cheap, haven't played the DLC yet tho. Ah well, GOTY would have been nice but I don't feel at all bad about paying a bit more.

mouton

13-09-2013, 12:44 AM

RPS IS NOT AN ORACLE

oh okay, it is, nvm

AlexClockwork

13-09-2013, 02:01 AM

Knife of Dunwall is definitely worth it. Haven't played the latest DLC yet, but I'm waiting for a good sale to get it.

RobF

13-09-2013, 04:50 AM

Brigmore Witches is excellent but it won't make sense without Knife Of Dunwall so yes, grab them both. They're both great but Brigmore makes so much more of Dishonored than you'd expect and some of the environmental work is stunning.

GunnerMcCaffrey

13-09-2013, 06:19 AM

I've only played Knife, but: Do you like Dishonored? The DLC is more Dishonored. Is this not excellent news? Though, as far as Knife goes, it's a less epic Dishonored, with less gravitas, slightly blander design, and no hub level.

Knife's three very large levels (and it does feel more like a level pack than an expanded narrative) that are very much Dishonored missions mechanically, but never reach the heights of the base game in terms of art design or atmosphere, in my opinion. The main game just keeps doubling down on the pathos and architectural excess in a way that KoD doesn't seem to quite aspire to. Sounds like I'm panning it, but I'm not. It's solid. It's three more Dishonored missions, no more, no less. Stealth or slaughter, it's all there, just be aware they already poured most of the soul into the main game. (Though as a partial trade off, Daud's blink power is better than Corvo's - stopping time and changing direction midair is pretty great).

Put it this way: I don't regret paying full price for Knife at all, and Brigmore looks to have a lot more life in it from what I've seen, but I'm still waiting on a discount.

KwisatzHaderach

13-09-2013, 06:38 AM

I've only played Knife, but: Do you like Dishonored? The DLC is more Dishonored. Is this not excellent news? Though, as far as Knife goes, it's a less epic Dishonored, with less gravitas, slightly blander design, and no hub level.

Knife's three very large levels (and it does feel more like a level pack than an expanded narrative) that are very much Dishonored missions mechanically, but never reach the heights of the base game in terms of art design or atmosphere, in my opinion. The main game just keeps doubling down on the pathos and architectural excess in a way that KoD doesn't seem to quite aspire to. Sounds like I'm panning it, but I'm not. It's solid. It's three more Dishonored missions, no more, no less. Stealth or slaughter, it's all there, just be aware they already poured most of the soul into the main game. (Though as a partial trade off, Daud's blink power is better than Corvo's - stopping time and changing direction midair is pretty great).

Put it this way: I don't regret paying full price for Knife at all, and Brigmore looks to have a lot more life in it from what I've seen, but I'm still waiting on a discount.

I can completely agree with what you said about KoD. For me, the lack of a sense of urgence and menance compared to the base game was, what made KoD not quite as compelling as the base game. TBW on the other hand I enjoyed more than any of original. Especially the last level, it's just soooo brilliant. While KoD felt like a level pack with solid design, TBW felt much more autonomous and fresh and offers the best of Dishonord's level design. Also, the new powers make for a much more enjoyable rambo or silent assassin playstyle than before (no worries, stealth is as great as ever).

Juan Carlo

13-09-2013, 10:55 AM

I haven't played the DLC yet, but Dishonored's the first game in ages that I immediately replayed after finishing it. It really is almost like two different games if you do one stealth pacifist play through and one Rambo kill everyone play through.

I wasn't terribly enamored with the plot (which is bare bones) or the main character (who's kind of boring), but the setting and world are awesome and the gameplay itself is interesting enough to hold your interest on its own.

My one major complaint about the game is that stealth is a bit flat and too simplistic. In my stealth play through after a couple levels I really found myself missing "Thief's" light/dark and "sound" stealth systems. Playing with light and shadow and snuffing out torches to keep out of sight added a whole layer to the gameplay of Thief that Dishonored sadly lacks. Likewise, noise doesn't really factor into Dishonored's stealth much, which again is part of what made Thief so awesome (i.e. in Thief every surface made a certain level of noise depending on what material it was made of, so you had to plan your movements based on the surfaces in front of you). But none of this ruined the game for me or anything, it just would have spiced up the gameplay a bit if they had implemented that type of stuff.

KwisatzHaderach

13-09-2013, 01:45 PM

My one major complaint about the game is that stealth is a bit flat and too simplistic.

Imo you get the most fun out of the game by playing it kinda like a james bond film: some sneaking, some silent killing, some smaller engagements and some all out ramboing. Not by just sticking to one or the other extreme. That's one thing I love about Dishonored, I can just play the way I feel like at that particular moment throughout the whole game.

Heliocentric

13-09-2013, 01:50 PM

I am just experiencing the game for the first time vicariously through watching my wife play it. To watch here play it it feels like Bioshock, she kicks down the door and murders everyone as a whirling dervish of death. She's essentially playing as Liam Neeson in Taken.

LTK

13-09-2013, 01:51 PM

You can kick down doors in Dishonored?

Heliocentric

13-09-2013, 01:53 PM

You should be able to, the kick button in Dark Messiah was it's best feature. They should sell kick DLC.

Tikey

13-09-2013, 02:26 PM

I am just experiencing the game for the first time vicariously through watching my wife play it. To watch here play it it feels like Bioshock, she kicks down the door and murders everyone as a whirling dervish of death. She's essentially playing as Liam Neeson in Taken.

Now I have to play Dishonored like I am Liam Neeson in Taken.

DaftPunk

13-09-2013, 02:56 PM

I completed dishonored the same way,its a shame playing stealthy because its very basic compared to rambo style :D