Comment Feed for Channel 9 - IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Completehttp://video.ch9.ms/ch9/dbff/6ff58355-9133-4346-9447-09a39297dbff/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID_100.jpgChannel 9 - IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass CompleteThe IE team has been very hard at work on IE 8 for the past several months and they hit a huge milestone last Friday evening. The IE dev team checked in a bunch of code that included several new features implemented
in the core rendering engine that enable IE to pass the
ACID 2 test! This is great news for web developers: IE 8 is going to be our most standards compliant browser to date. Passing ACID 2 is really a combined side effect of all the new features that have been developed for IE 8.
In this interview, I sit down with IE GM Dean Hachamovitch and Architect Chris Wilson to discuss this milestone and dig into compliance in general, lessons learned from IE 7 and discuss the IE team's ultimate goal of de facto interoperability. Of course, no
Channel 9 interview is complete without meeting some of the devs who actually
write technology so we take a walk from Dean's office to super developer Alex Mogilevsky's office to discuss what's been done to provide IE with the core rendering features that enable
IE 8 to pass the ACID 2 test. We also chat with CSS guru Markus Mielke who was instrumental in identifying and planning the feature set required to pass ACID 2.
Tune in! enTue, 03 Mar 2015 20:25:37 GMTTue, 03 Mar 2015 20:25:37 GMTRev9Re: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete
posted by Bas]]>
http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID-2-Test-Pass-Complete#c633336918660000000
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:11:06 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID-2-Test-Pass-Complete#c633336918660000000BasRe: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete
posted by esoteric]]>
http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID-2-Test-Pass-Complete#c633336921070000000
Wed, 19 Dec 2007 20:15:07 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID-2-Test-Pass-Complete#c633336921070000000esotericRe: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass Complete

W3bbo wrote:

﻿This needs a "Digg this" link

Go ahead and Digg it, man! The link you speak of will be in the next version of C9.C

﻿Didn't Microsoft publicly say that the Acid2 test wasn't one of their primary focuses?

In fact, Alex is saying the same thing in this video: "Passing the test is not something we build the project around. We build the project around implementing important features in a standards compliant way, and when we do it, the test just happened."

So as far as I understand it, more standards compliance is a focus for IE8. The test, as is its purpose, just points out that they succeeded at the compliance.

CompGuy101 wrote:﻿Didn't Microsoft publicly say that the Acid2 test wasn't one of their primary focuses?

In fact, Alex is saying the same thing in this video: "Passing the test is not something we build the project around. We build the project around implementing important features in a standards compliant way, and when we do it, the test just happened."

So as far as I understand it, more standards compliance is a focus for IE8. The test, as is its purpose, just points out that they succeeded at the compliance.

You are correct! Passing ACID2 is a (pleasant) side effect of the substantial IE 8 feature work and IE team's heavy investment in compliance (interoperability), generally.C

"We’re building IE8 for many different customers (consumers, web service providers, independent software vendors, enterprises, web developers, and others." then how about also building IE8 for media and print/photo professionals and including JPEG 2000,
HD Photo, SVG, APNG and ICCv4 color management support and A-V tags, opacity: value; etc?

I hope the IE does not forget over time that "Acid2, is by no means a complete measure of CSS standards support and CSS is not the only standard. In fact, many IE issues are not CSS-related."

And btw, if you don't continue to release IE9,10,11 for XP, forget it. I'll still be pissed off. Because Opera 9 also runs on Windows 95 and MS should make a browser independent of their beloved OS. It is not just your duty to support Windows XP, people
won't care about IE and use some other browser, its share will increase if you don't keep supporting XP even when Windows 7 or 8 comes out.

And I second a public bug-tracking system. And "third" a ""Fix the "Operation Aborted" JS DOM error.""

And as a punishment to MS for not supporting standards for sooooo long, I probably won't switch to IE8 if all is supports is just Acid2 compliance...maybe IE9 raises the standards compliance to 98% +, then I'll surely consider.

Lastly, I expect IE8 to be performant enough, definitely not cause as much speed lag as IE6=>7 transition.

CompGuy101 wrote:﻿Didn't Microsoft publicly say that the Acid2 test wasn't one of their primary focuses?

In fact, Alex is saying the same thing in this video: "Passing the test is not something we build the project around. We build the project around implementing important features in a standards compliant way, and when we do it, the test just happened."

So as far as I understand it, more standards compliance is a focus for IE8. The test, as is its purpose, just points out that they succeeded at the compliance.

Nobody will make content until browsers support the features, and browser vendors will not make the features unless they know developers are prepared to use them.

The Acid2 test is an egg in this "chicken and the egg" scenario. It gets a lot of play and is touted by MS's competitors as proof that they are looking forward while MS is not. The downplaying of the importance of this test, while making a video talking specifically
around the event of being able to run the test for the first time (in the default font)? ... it seems like there is a lot of kool aid being drunk here.

But they are caught between a rock and a hard place. The work of CSS and these sorts of tests obviously owes a tremendous amount to Opera's leadership, followed by Firefox's momentum. To admit that this test is important would be to conceed that they are
playing catch up to the real leaders (who pass the test without showing off 400 pages of dead trees) and that they actually *owe* them for setting their direction.

The key word is interoperability never mind acid. I guess the significant difficulty in being standards compliant, is that you have to be innovative along the way. The 'feature' added in 1998 is still being ruminated by WC3. Reminds of a thread where
the user said effecting change at WC3 is like planting grass in a desert. It doesn't happen oft.

]]>
http://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID-2-Test-Pass-Complete#c633337608100000000
Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:20:10 GMThttp://channel9.msdn.com/Blogs/Charles/IE-8-On-the-Path-to-Web-Standards-Compliance-ACID-2-Test-Pass-Complete#c633337608100000000jsampsonPCRe: IE 8: On the Path to Web Standards Compliance - ACID 2 Test Pass CompleteWhile I have sympathy for the problems you discussed regarding maintaining compatibility with older versions of IE, I should hardly need to point out that they are much of you own making If these features had been implemented correctly in the first place
then the problem would not exist. I don't say this to attack you, but to suggest that it is better not to implement a feature at all than to implement it incorrectly, or to implement it before the "correct" behaviour has been absolutely defined. Therefore,
I was very glad to hear you mention that you work with the standards groups and (particularly) the other browser vendors to resolve omissions and ambiguities in the specs. I've spoken with colleagues in the past about how I wouldn't care if IE didn't implement
features X, Y and Z, because right from the bat I'd just plan my content around a subset A, B and C that were supported in all my target browsers. It's when I start off believing I can use features X, Y and Z in all browsers, then run into problems half way
through development because of subtle incompatibilities, that problems really arise. It's then that I have to start chasing round bug reports on obscure blogs, adding browser specific hacks, and my estimates start slipping.

I'd also be interested in later communications from the team to hear what is your opinion on the future of the web in terms of standards, and as an application platform? For example, what is your stance on XHTML V2 vs HTML 5? What do you think of CSS 3.0? You
talked in this video about the addition and standardisation of XmlHttpRequest, but it seems like there's been less innovation of this sort in the last few years. The only major example I can think of has been the addition of the Canvas tag in some browsers
(and now into HTML 5, I believe). I guess the problem is that if individual browsers, particularly IE, start adding features unilaterally, then they are screamed at for introducing proprietary extensions, but if everything is done via standards bodies then
it could well be a glacial design-by-committee process. What are your thoughts on this? Do you see a greater roll for more ad-hoc groups like WHATWG, where a smaller group of vendors can more swiftly spec a new approach and then pass it to the WC3 for standardisation?
Do you foresee greater cooperation with Mozilla, Apple, etc, in the future?

It seems like from a political point of view, Microsoft is ambivalent at best regarding the web as an application platform. On the one hand you're producing great stuff like ASP.NET 2, the AJAX toolkit, Microsoft Expression, etc, but on the other you mothballed
IE for a long time, and you don't seem too active in really pushing to advance the web beyond its current limitations. AJAX is all very well, but it's basically just squeezing the last drops out of technology that's almost a decade old. My cynical side would
say that you're reluctant to enhance the web too far, for fear of letting web applications compete too closely with the desktop. That you want to stabilise HTML + CSS as a fancy document language, but to only deliver app capability via things like Silverlight
and .NET that you have greater control over. Or am I just being paranoid?

﻿Now, make me a REAL password manager and a REAL cookie manager ( Deny cookies until I CHOOSE to accept [optional ofcourse] ) and REAL "Customize each site:javascript/pluginst enabled/disabled, cookies etc" like Opera...

...and I'll switch back to IE!

You have the site zones, where you can restrict sites access and add them to a list, you can also define a default rule, too.Except for the password manager (which would require starting regedit as a service with taskplaner) it's better than in Firefox.