I have a full plate today so no full “report” on last night’s debate, but will put down some random thoughts below and invite all who are interested to comment. (Photos by Matt Vecchio added at bottom of post).

Main impression: All three candidates – Ron Speakman, Mike Chapman and Verne Dickerson – presented themselves well, spoke cogently, and provided a couple hours of interesting, civil discussion before a packed conference room. I don’t know how many people but it was probably in the neighborhood of 100+ with standing room only … the photos may give a better idea. Anyway, it was the best-attended and most substantive local political event not conducted under party auspices in at least a couple years (based on personal experience). Nice work by the organizers!

Impressions of the candidates – in the order they were sitting:

Ron Speakman: Best public speaker of the three; he was the only one who had actual applause lines. He made some good points about management at the Sheriff’s Office – why DO they have so many deputies manning the metal detector? One of his challenges was to tell how his extensive stretch of time in the business world would translate to being a good sheriff, and I think he did that well by referring to the inherent, unique difficulties of being at the top of any large organization. His proposed “self-deportation” solution to illegal alien crime is unique and has rightfully received a good amount of discussion. OPPORTUNITY FOR IMPROVEMENT: Prior to the debate, I had heard from people who follow law enforcement issues that Ron’s numbers regarding the increases in various types of crime in Loudoun County may need to be fine tuned. He referenced a fair amount of data and I could not judge how much of it was accurate – he was corrected on one point by one of the other candidates. He seems to be a very clear-thinking individual and I would like to feel certain that his information has been double-checked.

Mike Chapman: One of his strongest arguments is the importance of recent service in law enforcement and experience in various levels from local to international, and he made it well; in the answers to a few questions he pointed out innovations of the past ten years that would come into play if he was the sheriff and practices he had seen elsewhere that could apply here. His closing statement, delivered without notes, was by far the strongest. As my neighbor noted, “he seems the most confident.” Because of my caveat regarding the next candidate, Mike seems to be the one who could best walk into the Sheriff’s Office and speak the same language as the deputies, and he noted he would look to promote from within. OPPORTUNITY FOR IMPROVEMENT: Sometimes Mike gives the appearance of having a clearer idea of what he wants to do than he is able to communicate, and sometimes when the question only requires a 10 second answer he will try not to waste the rest of the allotted time. Plenty of public speakers do this, and they don’t need to, in my opinion; there are probably coaches who say otherwise. Most of his law enforcement experience is beyond the local level which connotes both positives and negatives.

Verne Dickerson: On the difficult question of “what would you do to address youth crime?” he was the only one who had a really substantive answer – involving new programs, one in collaboration with retired athletes. Though soft-spoken, Verne projects that he knows what he is talking about, has a quiet confidence that I would imagine deputies would pick up on – he seems like a reticent public speaker but when he speaks he is articulate and makes perfect sense. For every question his response indicated he was competent to handle that issue. OPPORTUNITY FOR IMPROVEMENT: He needs to explain exactly what the deal is with Mark Davis (candidate who dropped out and is now supporting Verne, and brings the “recent, local experience” element). Unless I am missing something, I think Verne still has to spell out whatever the position is that Mark will hold, because otherwise the combining of resumes is confusing. As with Mike Chapman, Verne has to really explain the positive aspects of bringing experience primarily from other levels – in Verne’s case, FBI.

Comments

LI – I know this sounds foreign, but talk about why Mike is the best choice, not why Verne and Ron are sub-par in your estimation. Face it, we all are really dealing with the subjective here.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Joe, the Sheriff has authority and a duty to check the status at the Jail. That is where our numbers are lacking, we do not have accurate routine checking of status.

No Sheriff, in Virginia, nor in any State in the Union, has any authority to do census type counts of who is and who is not illegal. I cannot imagine that Verne would have suggested this, and I think you are simply misunderstanding what he said… a simple thing to correct.

Therefore, I think it is safe to assume that Verne was talking about checking status at the jail, which is his duty and where he has authority. I think it is pretty safe that he was talking about doing his duty and contrasting it with the lack of routine currently being implemented.

Written by GStone about 6 years ago.

The position of the campaign is as follws: Quantifying the number of illegals arrested and ID’d via 287 G. They did not intend to go around and count illegals. That would be a foolish policy and impossible to do.

Here is what this is all about. There is no way to presently quantify the % of crimes committed in LC by those deemed as Illegal Aliens as defined by the U.S. Gov’t. In order to put in place effective policies to protect the citizens of LC against crimes committed by Illegal Aliens we must first know the extent of the problem. Do Illegal Aliens commit 10 % of the crimes ? 20 % of the crimes or 50% of the crimes. No one can say for sure. What Verne wants to do is to compile the statistics of those Illegals who are arrested and run through the 287 G process in Loudoun county. We would then know the % of crimes committed by Illegals. This alone would go a long way in better defining the problem. No more guessing, no more arguing over how big an issue confronts us, the size of the issues will be better measured. I might add this is such a simple thing, costing nothing to do it is amazing we are not already doing it.

Written by BlackOut about 6 years ago.

Jacob, it seems the Verne/Davis supporters are the ones taking this negatively. With some clarification maybe the two headed sheriff thing can be explained in a positive light, maybe he can also help explain how he is funding it, maybe he can also clarify if there are others he plans to bring on his staff? All that could be a positive or at the least justified. Nothing subjective there.

Same thing goes for what Joe is saying about the needed explanation on immigrant counting. How is asking the question some how a negative? So far the un-answered or un-clarified issues is what is sub-par. Those going negative are those who seem way to defensive about it, or are trying to divert this into personal attacks or some other vector away from clarity.

Written by BlackOut about 6 years ago.

Stoner, all sounds reasonable. What is the source? You? Or are you an official spokesman for the campaign? That sounds pretty official.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

If you listen to the video on Loudoun Times Mirror, Verne makes clear that he would not make a traffic stop just because a car had people in it with a certain color skin, or because he thought they could be illegal, but that after a lawful arrest under the ICE program, he would check their status, and keep track.

Sally, Verne’s press release, which he sent out to the entire world, posted on his web site, and which LvL posted verbatim at Virginia Virtucon, is completely unambiguous in saying he is going to count all the illegals. I definitely did not “misunderstand” anything.

Would you like me to post the press release in a new blog post so we can all dissect it and figure out where the misunderstanding lies?

BurnOut, I am just sending LI some friendly advice. I do not hear Stoner say anything as directly negative about Mike as what LI had to say about Ron and Verne. My personal belief is that Mike is the one to beat at this point. However, that said, I have nothing negative to say about the other two.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

I saw the press release, and I think it assumed that people knew what the issue was: ie, the lack of current routine determination of whether a detainee is illegal or not after an arrest.

It would be a simple fix.

I think suggesting that he thought he had authority to do some sort of census, was, well just ridiculous! am I banned now?

He is a law man, and if he made the mistake of thinking that the people would understand he was talking about doing his duty under the law (and perhaps the press release was not worded as tightly as it should have been)– then that is a mistake. But to suggest that he wanted to do a census, especially if you actually listened to what he said, is not really fair.

I think he could use some help with his press releases, but the idea is very important to implement, and he should be commended for addressing it.

Written by GStone about 6 years ago.

This new crime stat would simply become another stat provided the community via the sheriffs standard crime stat process.

If it were me, these numbers would be reported every 30 days. However, if the existing process is by quarter that too might be OK. Try now to pick up the phone or go online and figure how many Illegal Aliens were arrested in the month of June or the first quarter of 2009 or for the year 2010.
It is not like we are asking them to do anything they are not already doing. All we asking is they compile and report the facts. Pretty straight forward stuff, it took Verne to ask the question, How many illegals are arrested in LC every year ?

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

routine determination and documentation of illegal status after a lawful arrest… that is what Verne spoke about on the LTM video.

Written by GStone about 6 years ago.

The press release was poorly worded and will be fixed ASAP. Everyone keep your shorts on and stay away from the axle. This was a mistake of the english language, nothing more , nothing less.
It just shows what can happen when you omit one or two words. No biggie.

Now if someone wants to make an issue of it from this point forward, that would be disengenous.

Written by BlackOut about 6 years ago.

Well, seems it didn’t take Stoner long to get to the bat cave and back. Stoner, are you an official of the campaign? What is your roll? Disclosure is important if you are.

Next time you go back to the bat cave check on the Davis questions for me. Thanks.

Written by GStone about 6 years ago.

“Stoner, all sounds reasonable. What is the source? You? Or are you an official spokesman for the campaign? That sounds pretty official.”

The campaign. No and no. I know how to use a telephone. I might sugget that you do the same. Instead of making assertions and speculations or living confused, take out the cell and call.

Hello Verne ! yes this is Blackout, that guy on the internet who is constantly getting things wrong, can we talk for a minute ? What a concept.

If you can’t use the phone, I am sure your wife or a neighbor will help. Hell I’ll come over and dial the the friggin thing for you if it will get you onto the truth.

Ah, I see, Sally. So just like banning you was ridiculous, not discerning that Verne’s press release meant something completely different than what it said is also ridiculous? So your PR counsel would be: it’s the audience’s responsibility to decipher the message?

Your counterintuitive sense of public relations is matched only by your taunting manner of conveying it. In the blog world, this is what’s known as a hanging curve ball.

Verne seems like such a nice man, but you all are making it nearly impossible to hold back from a completely objective critique. No blogger, on any topic, at any time in our nation’s history, has demonstrated such restraint as I am exhibiting before you all now.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Joe, I was kidding.

I agree the press release was poorly worded, the mistake being that as a law man, Verne assumed people would know what the issues were. They don’t. Not even you, surprisingly. But it is good that you pointed out, and I am sure that Verne appreciates it, because it is frustrating to think you are being clear as day, and then find out no one understood what you said!

It is one thing to say you think the press release is poorly worded but quite another to say he wants to do some sort of count, like a census, on all illegals. If you listened to what he said, I think it is clear what he was talking about. And if you knew what he was talking about, you would not misunderstand the press release. And I honestly think my high school sophomore would not think a Sheriff could go around checking status, after the uproar in Arizona, without a lawful arrest…

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Joe, I am not his PR counsel, and if I had read the release before it came out, I might have suggested changes.

I have nothing to do with the campaign, just commenting on this blog, as I see the issues develop. Please do not lump me with any “crew.”

As I noted above when Greg L first brought it to everyone’s attention, I gave Verne the benefit of the doubt that he had misspoken at the debate. Then I saw that the press release doubled down on stupid, as they say.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

OK, the press release, in your opinion was stupid. We got it. I am sure they will clarify it promptly. Just like websites change when bloggers point out typos… or other mistakes..

But Verne was not suggesting going out and counting all the illegals in the County, and honestly, I do not think it is fair to even suggest that, if you listened to what he actually said. Or listened to any of the debate about the law in Arizona…

I mean no disrespect, but making the argument that he wanted to do a census type count is either 1) disingenuous or 2.) even more stupid than the press release…

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

I think it is valuable to debate the good ideas, and to help all the candidates develop the best possible message.. I think we are lucky to have such a good group of men willing to serve.

Verne’s idea is a basic one, a simple one, and a great one. It should be implemented, and he should be congratulated on pointing out this issue as one to be addressed professionally.

Written by Budoka about 6 years ago.

CORRECTION: I would appreciate serving under Chapman or Dickerson (preferably Chapman)…as both men would listen- but only Chapman would understand. Mr. Speakman would neither listen nor understand.

Sally, If I was the only one who received the press release, visited the Dickerson Web site, or visited Virginia Virtucon, your argument would have merit. Obviously, I could have called the campaign and clarified the matter for my own personal edification. It would not have shown up here as a matter of discussion, incidentally.

As luck would have it, however, they sent it out to the whole world, posted it on their Web site (where it still sits for the world to see) and a blogger posted it on the front page of VV. That is why it is being discussed. The dumb statement was identified by Greg L who was not at the debate.

The Verne Dickerson campaign sent out a stupid statement to the entire world and hours after it came up in public discussion they have done nothing to correct it. That is why we are discussing it. The response by Dickerson’s supporters – turning the blame around by saying those who notice the mistake are “disingenuous” or “stupid” – is of a piece with his entire campaign on this matter: Tone deaf, incompetent and self-destructive. Y’see, if you support Verne, what you want is for this issue to DISAPPEAR and not for the discussion to get drawn out. That ship has sailed.

Written by cop4ever about 6 years ago.

Cmac, I am back-did not disappear like you hoped. What have we uncovered??? A little mis speak by the Verne/Mark two headed monster-hurry to the presses and video and cover up your man’s bumbling mistakes. I cannot believe a former agent with the “premier LE agency” could make such a mistake. Don’t worry Speakman’s statistics were worse than Verne/Mark mistakes. All Chapman has to do is stand by and watch these two throw up all over themselves. At least most of the time you can’t hear the Verne/Mark speeches-ah but the video and statement-bad advice. You have to admit the Speakster is fun to watch.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Joe, I obviously offended you. I am very sorry.

All I meant to say was it seemed pretty obvious to me that it was a simple misunderstanding. But maybe I am just super smart. (I am sure you would disagree!)

I think it is valuable to debate the wording, but crazy to get so bent out of shape! Ridiculous in fact! I said I was glad you pointed it out… that I would correct it, even though I understood the issue and was not confused by the statement, given my understanding of the law, and the issues in the campaign.

You thought it was stupid, that was your word, and for me to re-use the kind of juvenile word, well, in my opinion, that was just lowering myself to your standards, and perhaps that was a mistake on my part. I do apologize.

Nice, Sally. Well, let’s just see how this plays out. I think there is at least one more container of gasoline over there, so be my guest and throw it in. And thanks for the apology!

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Although I could not listen to the entire LTM video (internet connection poor out here sometimes) I think Chapman basically agreed with what Verne had stated earlier: Chapman looks over at Verne and shakes Chapman head in approval as he describes checking in those detained and verifying status– he does say it a little more articulately, but I do believe they were saying the same thing, with Mr. Chapman was agreeing with Mr. Dickerson’s idea– as a very good one.

I think the most important thing to recognize is, This is a Good Idea.

I am sure there are a number of issues on which these candidates will agree on. One thing that most voters will agree on is that Mike Chapman clearly is the most prepared to by Sheriff of Loudoun County. He actually lives here and doesn’t need a sidekick. He’s ready to lead from day one, all by himself.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

If Verne Dickerson had said what some are thinking he said, then the two candidates who followed him would not have agreed with his idea, nodding at him as they indicated it was a good idea. They would have been outraged that he would have suggested such an unconstitutional grab of authority to extend beyond just enforcing and investigating crimes as authorized under our laws. Speakman even joked about wanting to send all the illegal immigrants to Maryland, and got a laugh…

Both gGeg L and Joe B picked up the problems with Verne’s statements, both oral and in writing from his campaign. Those two guys know more than anyone else in NOVA about the illegal immigration issue. Verne needs to obviously work on his communications.

And Speakman should know alot about living in Maryland!

Written by ACTivist about 6 years ago.

Joe, being as how you have become juvenile and sounding snarky, I hereby resign from commenting anymore on your blog for some time to come. I feel that the norgate chips are heading for meltdown and I want to bypass all the you did/you said crap that will bleed this post dry. What to do. I think I’ll go fishing! If you need more gasoline for this post; it’s in the shed. See ya.

Written by cop4ever about 6 years ago.

Communication my friends is very important to a LE enforcement leader and Verne/Davis is demonstrating poor skills, with his inaccurate press releases and his mumbling answers at the debate. If you are more than 10 feet away from him you have to strain to hear his words. He is the perfect church leader, not a leader for the troops. The Speakster is the real wild card-He can fire up any crowd but he is nuts.

Well we have really done it if we have driven ACT away. Oh fie, fie, how thoughtless am I. To drive a man to fishing, and probably multiple cases of a certain cider. I only hope that eventually your pain will be healed, and you will be able to return. Bon voyage, brother.

I’m not being hypocritical at all, CMac. I’ve always hated petty political bullshit.

Written by Ravi Oli about 6 years ago.

Ms. Sally, Ravi believes that it may prove to be just as instructive if the illegal immigrant inmates at the jail are also required to count the number of sheriff’s deputies who work at this facility each day. Does Verne Davison have a plan to address this? As GStone suggests, such a report could be produced every 30 days. The public would then know how many deputies are at the jail every day, and this activity would also allow the illegal immigrant alien inmates to perform a valuable public service at no cost. Ravi fully believes that in this timeframe, when resources are scarce, we would be wise to fully leverage the illegal immigrant alien inmates to the fullest extent, and would like to know how Mr. Davison feels about this.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Ravi, I do believe that Mr. Dickerson has a plan to study the number of deputies and their utilization in general. He is proposing an overall audit, and examination of the reasonable use of resources. Good post!

Written by cop4ever about 6 years ago.

Cmac-I have many years in LE, many years at a supervisory level-started in my late teens-how about you?? and I surely have more current experience than Verne/Davis candidate

Your “experience” apparently hasn’t curbed you from what many people find to be very poor traits in LEOs, bad manners and an inability to keep your disagreements as professional. It’s rare to find all these 2 traits in one LEO, so congratulations on exhibiting exactly those traits that allow detractors an unfortunate example.

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Some people hate petty political BS except when it it theirs! Then we must all bow down!

Written by Ravi Oli about 6 years ago.

Ms. Sally, thank you for your post, but it seems that you have not addressed one of the key considerations, which is this: Will Verne Davison use illegal immigrant inmate labor for the public’s benefit? Further, who will do this audit that you are referencing? How much will this audit cost taxpayers? What will specifically be audited? Are there going to be specific audit goals and objectives? Will the audit adhere to GAAP? Finally, will you have or do you intend to seek a role in the Verne Davison administration? These questions, Ms. Sally, are but a few that need to be answered. Mr. Quotable Joe, did someone ask for gasoline?

Written by sally about 6 years ago.

Ravi, the best source for answers to those questions are the campaign. If you are not a real person, maybe BlackOut can ask for you…. he has lots of similarly hilarious questions!

All I know is what I read, and I did read that Mr. Dickerson has expertise in these kinds of audits, and already has some suggestions. His website is: dickersonforsheriff.com

Perhaps the same questions could be asked of the Chapman and Speakman campaigns? Since they will be going on “listening tours” and opening their ears to the department on all aspects of the LCSO – will they do this themselves? Is it a job for one man? Seems a bit much. Who will they utilize to help them? Will there be additional costs? How long will it take?

All 3 candidates realize the need for internal review, all know that there has been a lack of leadership from Simpson. If questions are asked of one candidate, let them be asked of all 3 considering they all realize the consequences of another 4 years of Simpson.

Written by cop4ever about 6 years ago.

Cmac, thanks for the props. Your message is a little confusing,but thanks anyway-really have not heard from the “many” people complaining about my comments or work. Your upity arrogance fits in very nice with the Verne/Davis two headed monster. Now get to work and fix his statements, videos etc-don’t waste anymore time here

Cop, I have no control over anyone’s campaign. Your continued comments are evidence that you are every bit the worst representation of a law enforcement professional. No class, no professionalism and I highly doubt you are who you say you are. It is a crime to impersonate a law enforcement officer in the real world, and it’s down right sick to do it on a blog.

I also noticed the stringy support that this imposter gives as evidence of being an LEO. Yet, IIRC, they said they considered a run themselves. Methinks they are not what they try to imply that they are.
They appear to be a parrot to another poster’s comments, often using the exact phrasing — as if to imply that they got caught up in the rhetoric and forgot who they were signed on as.