PUP has always been my fav class of any MMO and with FFXIV being remade I'd figure I would come back to ffxi. So my question is what have I missed out on PUP wise in ffxi and what subs are PUPs using in pts now?

it really depends on the party and the situation and what you are trying to achieve.

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lolgaxe wrote:

When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

Parties it doesn't matter. Sad (loved skill being party of leveling, not so much the long wait time) but true. Get in a book burn and hit 99. Can also do Abyssea from 75+ to reach 99. Someone who has or is leveling PUP will have to give better details and suggestions for the long run. I need to unlock PUP as I am looking to make it my third 99.

Ah, in case it wasn't obvious I interpreted the word "party" to mean any situation involving other players, including events, farming and other game related activities. I don't see how it can be argued that if you are playing pup with other people, what you are doing and equipping and subbing will depend greatly on your party's needs.

It's part of being a hybrid job that can fill a lot of roles (if imperfectly). You need to be geared and skilled and knowledgeable about all the roles your job can play.

Yeah in exp it doesn't matter. I feel like an **** punching leeches with the weapon needed to unlock stringing pummel, but I can aggro the whole dungeon without losing more than a 100 hp, so I don't feel bad taking up a spot, supertanking and hasting my fellow party members while I grind out weapon skill points. (Oh god will it never end?

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lolgaxe wrote:

When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.

Ah, in case it wasn't obvious I interpreted the word "party" to mean any situation involving other players, including events, farming and other game related activities. I don't see how it can be argued that if you are playing pup with other people, what you are doing and equipping and subbing will depend greatly on your party's needs.

It's part of being a hybrid job that can fill a lot of roles (if imperfectly). You need to be geared and skilled and knowledgeable about all the roles your job can play.

Yeah in exp it doesn't matter. I feel like an **** punching leeches with the weapon needed to unlock stringing pummel, but I can aggro the whole dungeon without losing more than a 100 hp, so I don't feel bad taking up a spot, supertanking and hasting my fellow party members while I grind out weapon skill points. (Oh god will it never end?

im on floor 10 of nyzul, and i have stringing pummpel... you do the math, the horrible oh-so-horrible math.

PUP has always been my fav class of any MMO and with FFXIV being remade I'd figure I would come back to ffxi. So my question is what have I missed out on PUP wise in ffxi and what subs are PUPs using in pts now?

PUP actually got some pretty substantial improvements since you left - higher h2h skill rank, lots of very good DD-focused gear easily available (this is a BIG deal), some puppet adjustments. PUP's core role is a DD-focused job, splitting the damage between master and puppet. However, you do have some nice flexibility to use a mage puppet if you need healing magic or nukes.

The bad: Unfortunately, one thing that is the same as it always was is that PUP is not really in demand for popular endgame group events. This doesn't mean the job is inherently bad or that a well played PUP is useless, but it does mean that: (1) More close-minded players will not want to include a PUP even in situations where a PUP would work just fine. You'll have to be prepared to deal with this stigma. (2) Sometimes it's unfortunately true that PUP is not particularly well suited to particular events, including a lot of currently popular endgame activities. PUP doesn't do so well in events where you want "zerg" damage (Voidwatch, Legion, super-NMs like Arch Dynamis Lord or Provenance Watcher) and where DDs have heavy buffs/temp items (which don't affect the puppet). See Jinte's related topic on this forum for a lot more on PUP and zergs - I agree 100% with her points. PUP doesn't really shine in Abyssea either, since it has relatively few proc abilities to get key items, item drops, etc. (this doesn't mean you can't kill an NM or join an exp alliance).

The good: Now that the more sobering news is out of the way, there are some things PUP is very good at. It's a great job in many lowman situations that can focus on pure DD or provide some handy support with mage puppets. It's excellent for doing solo/duo/trio Dynamis farming. It's pretty flexible in Meeble Burrows, which can be done with a 3-6 person group. No reason you can't do a good job in a Salvage group. Good at killing a lot of NMs, including those in Abyssea when you're not too concerned with procs (or already have them from other party members). Hopefully new Seekers of Adoulin content will also have some more PUP-friendly content.

As for subjobs:You'll still want the same traditional PUP subjobs of /WAR /DNC /NIN that you probably knew before your break. Subjob to be determined depending on the situation.

1) /WAR is for damage. If you're in a party to DD, this is it. You can also use it solo/lowman and rely on a mage puppet to keep you healed. Every PUP needs /WAR available, no exceptions.

2) /DNC is a pretty common overall utility subjob. Waltzes are nice, and can keep you alive even when using a non-mage puppet. Violent Flourish stun is very useful at times. Some minor offensive benefits through things like subjob Haste Samba, Steps, Accuracy Bonus trait. Spectral Jig is handy when running around in aggro areas. This sub is often overused in a party situation when you really should be more focused on damage and using /WAR, but it is useful to have.

3) /NIN is the defensive-focused sub. Sometimes, Utsusemi can mean the difference between life and death - both solo or in parties from AoE mob abilities (though this is not quite as prevalent as it once was). Can be very nice for some solos to tank with shadows and have the mage puppet keep you alive. Probably not as useful as it once was, but still nice to have around.

4) /THF is a specialty subjob for farming, which has especially come into its own in Neo-Dynamis. See my full description here

I personally don't find stuff like mage sub, /DRG, /DRK, /SAM very useful. They certainly aren't to be prioritized over the more typical subs above.

im on floor 10 of nyzul, and i have stringing pummpel... you do the math, the horrible oh-so-horrible math.

I have infinite sympathy.

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lolgaxe wrote:

When it comes to sitting around not doing anything for long periods of time, only being active for short windows, and marginal changes and sidegrades I'd say FFXI players were the perfect choice for politicians.