Why do you guys put up with this?

I'm amazed that Champion and Treblinka get such free reign here. Frankr seems interested in dialogue, as does humble servant and others, but TC and Trebbie fling their shit everywhere, hijacking threads, getting off-topic, and running this place like they were carte blance charter members.

Has anyone ever challenged them to put some facts behind their posts or get the hell out?

[quote author=“Tenspace”]I’m amazed that Champion and Treblinka get such free reign here. Frankr seems interested in dialogue, as does humble servant and others, but TC and Trebbie fling their s*** everywhere, hijacking threads, getting off-topic, and running this place like they were carte blance charter members.

Has anyone ever challenged them to put some facts behind their posts or get the hell out?

Tenspace, Sam likes me. Got a problem with that?

Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light. Matt 11:28-29

[quote author=“TheChampion”][quote author=“Tenspace”]I’m amazed that Champion and Treblinka get such free reign here. Frankr seems interested in dialogue, as does humble servant and others, but TC and Trebbie fling their s*** everywhere, hijacking threads, getting off-topic, and running this place like they were carte blance charter members.

Has anyone ever challenged them to put some facts behind their posts or get the hell out?

Tenspace, Sam likes me. Got a problem with that?

No problem, Champ. Just curious why you guys have such free run of the boards here. Especially Treblinka.

Champion is hopelessly close-minded, politically extreme, relies on overtly right-wing media outlets for his news and rarely if ever gives actual facts to support his opinions (though he clearly considers quoting scripture to be factual). But I argue with him mostly because it helps me to clarify my own opinions. I don’t bother contesting him when neither argument can be proven even when his flies in the face of common sense (such as Christ’s divinity), but I do feel the need to speak up when he voices a belief that is conclusively ill-informed and really has nothing to do with Christianity (such as evolution, needle exchange, The Great Flood, etc.). I admit I feel guilty when I respond to his tangents rather than the actual discussion group topics, but I don’t like the idea of nobody responding to an opinion that ignores facts. And at least he often tries to be personable…

Treblinka on the other hand is just plain nuts. Have you ever seen the movie “American History X”? I picture Treblinka as the older guy Cameron, but without possessing even that level of humor, stature and social grace. I’ve only responded to him a few times to tell him that he’s an antisocial jerk and to please shut up, to which he has responded by deducing that I must be a “Zionist apologist”. As they say, the best revenge is living well, and he’s liable to die miserable and alone, so don’t bother with him.

Tenspace is on to something here. If you look under the member profiles, the religous mafia seem to have the largest number of post on this site. For that reason, I question the effectiveness of the ignore feature. While it may give those of us who already know what to expect from the religiosos peace, my fear is that for newcomers, or even the curious who might just stop by, it looks as if we have nothing to say against them (my belief is that they hope we all ignore them so that it looks as if they are winning, or at least controling the debate).

But I don’t know why we even put up with treblinka. Trying to combat his volumous post would be a full time job, which I feel no one here would be interested in doing (or reading for that matter). Champ can at least stay on topic (which is probably because he starts so many of them), frankr can express his own oppinions (at least when he isn’t just quoting Thomas Aquinas or Augustine). Michael812 was amusing (atleast to me). Humble servant and the other less stringent religiosos atleast provide an insight into the opposing point of view. Treblinka brings nothing to the table.

People have said that an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of keyboards would produce the works of Shakespeare, but the internet has shown this to be wrong.

[quote author=“Celsus”]Tenspace is on to something here. If you look under the member profiles, the religous mafia seem to have the largest number of post on this site. For that reason, I question the effectiveness of the ignore feature. While it may give those of us who already know what to expect from the religiosos peace, my fear is that for newcomers, or even the curious who might just stop by, it looks as if we have nothing to say against them (my belief is that they hope we all ignore them so that it looks as if they are winning, or at least controling the debate).

Why would we have any concern whatsoever about such seriously undisciplined and uncritical and irresponsible and ridiculously impressionable minds?

Personally, unless someone demonstrates at least some level of intellectual integrity, I really don’t care what that someone thinks or says or believes (one exception being when large numbers of such drone types are compelled to the polls in order to impose the values their authorities have given them upon everyone else). Those who truly appreciate and value reason won’t be very impressed with the nonsense from the peanut gallery in here, and I’d argue it’s a waste of time and effort to use reason to try and influence those who don’t value or appreciate it.

It’s all part of choosing your battles wisely, I think.

Byron

Reason is to understanding as theory is to music, and critical thinking as mastery of theory.

“We say, ‘Love your brother.’ We don’t say it really, but… well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either. But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins/Nigel Tufnel

[quote author=“SkepticX”]Why would we have any concern whatsoever about such seriously undisciplined and uncritical and irresponsible and ridiculously impressionable minds?

Personally, unless someone demonstrates at least some level of intellectual integrity, I really don’t care what that someone thinks or says or believes (one exception being when large numbers of such drone types are compelled to the polls in order to impose the values their authorities have given them upon everyone else). Those who truly appreciate and value reason won’t be very impressed with the nonsense from the peanut gallery in here, and I’d argue it’s a waste of time and effort to use reason to try and influence those who don’t value or appreciate it.

It’s all part of choosing your battles wisely, I think.

Byron

We should care because the unwashed masses make up a far larger percentage of the populace than we do. I feel it is incumbent upon us to help educate those impressionable minds who could fall prey to the lunatic rantings of the deranged. If you want examples of why this is important, look at nazi Germany, Iran, Imperial Japan, facist Italy, or any number of countries throughout history where the masses have come to embrace the insane beliefs of their mad leaders.

Or we could just insulate ourselves from them, pretend they don’t matter, and constantly repeat “it can’t happen here.” Just remember, every rational person throughout history claimed the same thing, and when the shit hit the fan, they were usually the first to go.

People have said that an infinite number of monkeys typing on an infinite number of keyboards would produce the works of Shakespeare, but the internet has shown this to be wrong.

One reality the Christians on this site have brought home to me is that Sam’s warning that technology in the hands of people like these is dangerous and that it’s just a matter of time before something catastrophic happens. There is little we can we do in the short term to prevent this from happening. I sincerely hope that I am wrong but from what I’ve been able to tell these people are willing to trample over facts to parrot the opinions of their demagogues. I haven’t heard from any Islamists but my guess is that they are just as fanatical in their beliefs.
I totally agree with the premise of Sam’s book but I fear that it is too early in American political evolution to let go of superstition and deal with our problems with a humane, compassionate, factual attitude. Sam’s book and others like it, people like ourselves who see man’s inhumanity to man caused by religion, education and experiences like those many europeans have already suffered, may one day bring us to our senses. Right now the reality is that the fundamentalists have the upper-hand and it’s obvious to me that no amount of rational discussion or facts will bring them to their senses.

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centures since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.—Isaac Asimov, Canadian Atheists Newsletter, 1994

If the monomaniac were banned here, how long do you think it would take him to come back, maybe using the handle Belsen or Auschwitz? Tolerating his presence seems to be the price we pay for our own freedom of speech. The ignore feature is relatively new. Its effectiveness may be more evident soon. The point about newcomers being misled by the preponderance of Christian posts is important. Maybe, when we greet new people here, we can mention the ignore function and how to use it. I would not want to publicize the monomaniac by mentioning his name to the new people.

[quote author=“hampsteadpete”]I think a quote from the Grandmaster might be appropriate here:

Imagine the people who believe such things and who are not ashamed to ignore, totally, all the patient findings of thinking minds through all the centures since the Bible was written. And it is these ignorant people, the most uneducated, the most unimaginative, the most unthinking among us, who would make themselves the guides and leaders of us all; who would force their feeble and childish beliefs on us; who would invade our schools and libraries and homes. I personally resent it bitterly.—Isaac Asimov, Canadian Atheists Newsletter, 1994

Boy, I miss him!

Might be appropriate indeed—how unfortuantely prophetic!

[trying to shake the image of Mia on the buffet table in order to think half straight]

Asimov also sent a friend of mine a response to a letter once that essentially told him (re: my friend inspiring his colelge English students) that he shouldn’t bother because society needs garbage collectors and waiters etc. Note: word is that Asimov warmed up to write for the day by responding to his mail, and he wrote creatively at ~90wpm. I wonder how many of us can think at 90wpm!

I liked Carl Sagan’s attitude better, though at times I do identify more with Asimov’s (at least as I interpret them).

I still don’t think it’s worth much in the way of time or effort to try and reason with people who don’t value reason (light on the intellectual integrity), and the investment that is worth making in time and effort depends upon how much intellectual integrity each individual demonstrates. Why do so many reasonable people seem to think everyone values reason when it’s quite clear many don’t?

Byron

Reason is to understanding as theory is to music, and critical thinking as mastery of theory.

“We say, ‘Love your brother.’ We don’t say it really, but… well we don’t literally say it. We don’t really, literally mean it. No, we don’t believe it either. But that message should be clear.”—David St. Hubbins/Nigel Tufnel