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.....
If you are an MX-5 loyalist, nothing will convince you otherwise.
....

I've never owned a MX5 and I have not even driven such a car.
Not my taste, low torque, high revs like many Japanese engines.
In the past I drove mainly Ford, AlfaRomeo and Opel. My current car is a 14 year old Opel 2.0 Turbo. That was Opels first turbo engine in Europe (C20LET) in 1992 (204hp/280Nm/206lbft) and she's still running fine.

IMO we where talking about production and sales of the MX5 vs. Kappas.
Production and sales numbers should be discussed without emotions because they are just facts.
If I would not like the Kappas, especially the Turbo engine, I would not join this forum.
But I'm also thinking about the weak points of this car like diff, cloth top and some others. With a 17 years operating experience like the Miatas, the Kappas could also have a high (or even higher) developed quality.

12-15-2006 06:37 PM

CountryGirl

Yeah, we really like the 500, and will probably still get one when we can no longer climb in and out of the Sky.

I can honestly say there is no other convertible that I would even consider. In fact, we were going to buy a Ford Five-Hundred until the Sky captured our attention!

Wow! That's a big change. I guess you decided you really didn't need to be able to put 5 golf bags in the trunk We have a 500 also. When travelling, we throw a comforter in the trunk and leave part of the rear seat down. The dog loves her little private cave.

12-15-2006 01:03 PM

CountryGirl

Just no "Wow" factor

Got a chance to get a close-up look at my sister-in-law's Miata. It's cute, there are some things it does better. But it sure doesn't leave you waiting to exhale like the styling on the Sky (not to mention the performance on the RL).

When we first started considering a Sky, I was a little apprehensive about the small trunk space and manual roof. But I see you can work around the trunk issue, and my husband has convinced me that a power roof is just one more thing to go wrong. In fact, Sis went to demo taking down her Miata's hard top, and guess what? Brand new car, she couldn't get it to work.

I can honestly say there is no other convertible that I would even consider. In fact, we were going to buy a Ford Five-Hundred until the Sky captured our attention!

12-15-2006 10:12 AM

KappaMan

I guess my point is the definition of 'better car'.

Slalom, 100' spaced - pretty much a wash. Around 67 mph.

Max lat - mini advantage to MX-5, which runs on summer-only tires.

Stopping distance - small advantage to MX-5, again on summer-only tires.

On the track, equal stock rules, the Kappa dominates.

On the autocross course, equal stock rules, the Kappa dominates.

Interior seating room: Kappa

Trunk Space: MX-5

Styling - beauty is in the eye of the beerholder. Finished top-down look on Kappa, vs. functionality for MX-5 in lieu of styling.

Safety - a wash. MX-5 has side airbags, but scores are very similar for NHTSA crash ratings. Wait - I guess I have to give it to MX-5 b/c they offer active handling, the base kappas don't. But, then again, you don't have to worry about snow like you do in an MX-5, the kappa base cars come equipped with all-season tires. AND the SKY has standard OnStar.

Ride - prolly a wash.

Fit/Finish/Polish - small advantage to MX-5.

Quality - we'll have to see in the future. Prolly MX-5 advantage here.

Appeal - new-kid-on-the-block with fresh styling vs. traditional loyalists that will not relinquish the title of 'best small convertible sports car' at the drop of a hat.

It all depends on what you care about. If you're interested in 'integrated results', the Kappa is the better car. It gets around in snow, the MX-5 doesn't, and it dominates at a race course, which is a really good indicator of how well the car is balanced for the three attributes of accelerating, stopping, and turning.

If you are an MX-5 loyalist, nothing will convince you otherwise.

If you're into the 'newest and best looking, attention grabbing car,' my own personal experience - I never get a 2nd look when I drive an MX-5. I can hardly fuel up a kappa without SOMEONE asking me about the car. The kappa is the better car.

If you care about luggage room and quality reputation, then the MX-5 will probably be a better car for you.

Like the SCCA SSB runoffs? Where the Solstice driven by Don Knowles, even though it weighs so much more than the NC and the NB Miata/MX-5, won by a 28 SECOND MARGIN?

Or the 7 Solstice drivers at the CStock SCCA Solo Nationals, all of whom took home trophies in a class of >35 cars? And the National Champion happened to be driving a...

...Solstice (Kappa). Oh, and of the seven NC MX-5 Drivers, the FASTEST driver was slower than the SLOWEST Solstice driver - and the slower Solstices were driven by people who had NEVER been to an autocross national before?

Is THAT what you mean by the "better car will make the race"?

Or do you mean that the 'better car will win the race."

Or do you mean that the "better car is whatever I want it to be, regardless of the evidence in front of us."

It ain't all about sales, either. Most would argue that the Porsche 911 is prolly a bit better car than the Solstice/SKY.... It's certainly head and shoulders above the miata. They don't sell more cars than either the kappas or miatas.

IMHO, the S2000 - handling quirks and all - is a better car in many respects than the MX-5. They sell half the number of S2000's per year. In stock config, the S2K will spank an NC MX-5 on the track.

HeY SKIP...Ernest won't come over unless there r grits a cookin'...Aside from the usual roadkill in Jersey, what fancies your appetite?

Anything but roadkill. I get roadkill about three times a week an it do get old. Duh I guess roadkill is old and tenderized when I gits it too. But back ta tha question I'll be takin Hamboogers an french thighs....Skip...

12-14-2006 04:32 PM

marlboromike

HeY SKIP...Ernest won't come over unless there r grits a cookin'...Aside from the usual roadkill in Jersey, what fancies your appetite?

12-14-2006 02:24 PM

C20LET_50

Roadster market (MX5 vs. Kappa and others)

Back to the real business again, I just found the production numbers of the (no longer being produced) Z3 and Z3 Coupe:

In the total production range between 1996 and 2002 there run of the plant

Z3...........279,273
Z3 Coupe...17,815

Within 7 years total product time that is an average of ~ 42,500 cars per year.
I didn't find the Z4 production numbers but as far as I heard it doesn't sell better.