Just came on to see what you Herberts had to say about the mighty England team, and there's not even a thread.I suppose that tells you all you need to know about how after so many years of garbage, even from supposedly decent sides, we're all a bit sick of being let down by them.

Ironically Allardyce was perfect for England.The biggest mistake the FA made, (& they make a lot) was to try and copy *insert name of current WC or Euro winners* English football is physical and quick, maximise that and most teams can't cope. England should play to their strengths like every other country does and I guarantee that with the right manager (just someone who can organise, motvate & who has a bit of charisma) we would have been a lot more successful!

Can't remember watching England games, where there is so much sideways and backwards passing - you'd think with places up for grabs, and not that many players guaranteed of starts, there would be more movement going on.

English players have lost that ability to win, because everyday they are winning. They earn excessive amounts of money so failure doesn't seem so bad. Look at the hunger, it isn't really there any more. True grit and determination is replaced with flair and showboating skill, which gives you a slower, methodical style of play rather than a determined battle for the ball.

Silky skills mean a lot in football of course, but the hard fought determination and hunger also makes you a World Cup winning team.

Why would anyone give a shit about a team mostly full of players that look disinterested playing for their country and playing in tournaments?

The players bread and butter is club football and all the glory that goes with it. They know themselves they are nowhere near good enough collectively as a team to challenge for honours at international level. Up against a half decent side we are raped every time or bottle ET or pens.

Same old story tournament after tournament - qualify well against shite (yes I know you can only play what is given/put in front of you) and then as soon as the pressure is on ... failure.

We used to be what I called one of a group of around 6 teams that would contest a tournament - now I wouldn'teven place England as a top 10 side - we are not a force and no one is scared of playing us and that is a fact.

Put this current crop up against the team/squad of say 1990/1996/1998 and there is no comparison in ability, patriotism and generally caring about playing for your country,none at all.

So what/who is to blame? Simple, the PL and money - the end.

So, do I care? Not one iota. Couldn't care less if we lost all 3 group games without scoring coz I certainly aint cheering on fucking Deli Alli etc

But the BBC or ITV or whoever happens to be showing it could do a lot more to drum up interest. I'm not massively swayed by advertising, but they could make a bit of an effort to hype it up, like Sky do. It's like they're only showing it because they're obliged to. I never see it advertised, I didn't even know what time the match was yesterday - I was looking forward to watching a bit of Sunday evening international football so sat down to watch it about 7pm, when games are normally on, only to find it had already finished.

If that's the sort of fare they dish up. A team including a Tottenham reserve player, nobody willing to take on a player, back passing even from advantageous positions. Its no wonder nobody is interested. Noble would fit in with this sort of negative shit.

I reckon if England fuck up in Russia it'll be a turning.point, and people really will stop giving a shit. Eventually the best English players won't even be arsed with it and you'll get England teams comprised of Championship and League 1 players.