Speaking at Microsoft's financial analysts meeting today, CEO Steve Ballmer was refreshingly realistic about the company's struggles in smartphones and tablets. "Mobile devices. We have almost no share."

Right. Now that Ballmer himself admits it, can we please settle the discussion? Windows Phone has been a failure up until now.

There is nothing, just corner case issues which have more to do with buggy tombstoning implementations than anything.

I've gone through this at length with reduz and Thom before but apparently they are one of the only ones who encounter this issue on the entire internet. No review mentions it, no support sites that I can find, nothing.

But its OSNews, so they're free to post bullshit like that and get upvoted into the clouds.

Uhhh...my dad had the same kinds of problems with his Lumia, which is why he sold it after just a month and got an Android which just FYI but at 73 he had ZERO trouble picking up and using.

The only "issue" he has had with android (if you can even call it that, I consider it a feature) is that he sees no point in upgrading to android 4 when his 2.3 phone works fine. I can't really blame him as I'm hard on phones so intend to stay with my 2.3 until I kill it as well.

So I'm sorry nelson, you can wave the WinFlag all you want but there IS some pretty serious issues with WinPhone, you just don't know how to look. Look for "WinPhone sluggish" "WinPhone hangs" and "WinPhone needs reboot" and you'll find all the links you want, its just the folks with WinPhone don't talk tech, you see the same with iPhone which isn't surprising as that is the market MSFT has been trying to ape.

As a lifelong windows user I can tell you this nelson, I wouldn't take a WinPhone if you paid me. after using dad's (he offered it to me, I gave it back after 2 weeks) all I could think when I used WinPhone is "Apple but worse" as everything seems to be a poorly done copy, the appstore has higher prices and worse selection, it seems even more locked down, ironically Android is closer to windows on a phone (able to install your own OS, install apps from anywhere, ton of third party mods) than WinPhone!

If your dad went from Windows Phone to Android 2.3, he must have used a pretty early version of WP. WP8 is rock solid on my Lumia and the power and data management is amazing. Perhaps check out WP8 "Amber" release and see for yourself how good or not it is.

Uhhh...my dad had the same kinds of problems with his Lumia, which is why he sold it after just a month and got an Android which just FYI but at 73 he had ZERO trouble picking up and using.

Same kinds of problems? I'm only talking about one specific problem. Which problem did he have? My suspicion is that it's not the same problem I'm talking about -- ergo not related to my comment at all.

The only "issue" he has had with android (if you can even call it that, I consider it a feature) is that he sees no point in upgrading to android 4 when his 2.3 phone works fine. I can't really blame him as I'm hard on phones so intend to stay with my 2.3 until I kill it as well.

Android 2.3. I'm sorry that you put yourself through that. Really, I am.

So I'm sorry nelson, you can wave the WinFlag all you want but there IS some pretty serious issues with WinPhone, you just don't know how to look. Look for "WinPhone sluggish" "WinPhone hangs" and "WinPhone needs reboot" and you'll find all the links you want, its just the folks with WinPhone don't talk tech, you see the same with iPhone which isn't surprising as that is the market MSFT has been trying to ape.

Okay, since I can't do a search, can you find me some examples? I adjusted my search terms and still came up empty. If there's a hang or reboot, and it persists, then I'd attribute it to a one off error with a device (depending on the device, I've seen HTC 8X's have a firmware bug which caused reboots, but it's been fixed in subsequent updates by HTC).

As far as sluggishness goes, I've not personally experienced it, and from what the reviewers and majority of the internet seems to think, Windows Phone performs very smoothly. If there is sluggishness, it's important to note the distinction between the OS and some apps, which may factor into play here.

As a lifelong windows user I can tell you this nelson,

Can we please stop this crap. I don't care if you're a life long Windows user or decade long window washer. It honestly makes no difference to what you're about to say next.

I wouldn't take a WinPhone if you paid me. after using dad's (he offered it to me, I gave it back after 2 weeks) all I could think when I used WinPhone is "Apple but worse"

And that's fine. You don't have to like it, but I'm still trying to figure out what that has to do with my comment on one specific issue raised by specific people.

as everything seems to be a poorly done copy, the appstore has higher prices and worse selection, it seems even more locked down, ironically Android is closer to windows on a phone

The App Store having higher prices is a reflection of Microsoft trying to put a floor under the race to the bottom that kills ecosystems. Look at Android. A mess of garbage, low investment by the existing players, and a relatively strong 2nd party app base driven by volume.

The store is flooded by scam apps and people gaming the review system to hide discoverability there. App stores need a strong watch, and pricing is just one facet of that.

Its even more strict on Windows 8 where the minimum price for an app (aside from free) is $1.99.

Windows Phone is not trying to be Windows on the Desktop. It doesn't want to be. It doesn't have to be. It is enjoying a modest amount of success without it, and if it continues on its trajectory will have done so without compromising the experience.