Quite by accident, during a totally unrelated debate on matters of psychology, I stumbled upon a viable alternative to the chemical mindfuck theory: The Bicameral Mind.

As for the subject matter itself (gay marriage) I think the French model is a good one: Only a legal body (judge) have the formal powers to marry people, but they may choose to be "blessed" by a religious body of their preference. That ceremony, however, has no legal powers. Which is how it should be.

I think that would be the best solution. After all why should some religious organization have the license to take care of things which are purely juridical arrangement.

This is exactly how it works with marriage in my country.

In our country it is possible to get married at register office, but we donīt have marriage for same sex couples. We have registered partnership for same sex couples and that is the excuse to Christian fundamentalists to resist the equal marriage law. The problem is that registered partnership is still separate institution to marriage and does not include all the same rights. Partner cannot take others last name or they canīt adopt children together for example.

Though we have this legal public officer who can make registration of marriage and registered partnership in the office of registrar. Christians resist the equal marriage by saying it should be only between man and woman. We still have the state Church no matter how modern our country is in other issues, so every time this issue comes under the public discussion the fundamental Christians are one part of the discussion and HLBTI people the opposite..

I don't want to argue Janina, because I don't feel any animosity towards you, and I don't fault your opinion because it is noble but there is sometimes a point in one must act out and stop blindly having a live and let live attitude. Not just pointing you out, but me and everyone who hasn't or doesn't. Having an ideology and fucked up moral system such as Christianity were it to be localized to the point of a single person would not be harmful, but as everyone should know it is not.

Their ideas do hurt people, they cause problems and degrade society. The so called good from what they may personally receive from practicing it does not benefit society as a whole, and hurts individuals as well. Since it seems most people are prone to look as Christianity as a tolerable evil, it kind of makes me sad. There is not a single religion aside from what was taught by the Docktor which actually makes any sense, and is not really in comparison and all truthfulness a peace loving one.

I am sorry to be totally going off subject here, but I used to feel the same way, live and let live. That is not the truth in it, because that is not their attitude towards you. They do not care about you, they wish to change you and make you into the puppet in which they are as well. This is why do unto others as they would do unto you makes sense. Because although sometimes we would like to be nice live in harmony be in some sort of utopia, there are not people who will accept this, there will always be someone to try and take control of your life. So one must take control of their own life and their own surroundings, bend them to their own will. To me this is what satanism is. Taking control, and not letting others mess with how you wish them to be.

I honestly wish I could do this in every situation, but I cannot at this point do so, which is why I cannot allow myself to be part of the Elite at this moment. Not because I do not truly believe what has been stated, but I cannot do what it is a satanist is required to at this point in my life. I do not wish to be subjugated, and am not complaining, but I am not worthy at this point to be the actual person required to be a true satanist and do not wish to be a pseudo-satanist. So until I reach this point I would love to continue learning, and I don't need a red card to know who I am. I am me, and that is what I need.

I donīt know what point do you mean but if you are not Satanist by nature I just donīt see how could you become one later. Satanism is not the philosophy for joiners cause Satanists are born, not made!

Like I said in my earlier post "as long as they donīt try to feed me their Christian values". It means exactly what it sounds like. I would never lose my freedom to Church anykind! Still why would I use my personal potential to something so useless than hating some organization. I live for my own personal goals and burning Bibles or Churches is defenitely NOT part of my interests. Actually I think such sentimental illegal actions like burning Churches these are not productive actions. My biggest concern with believe systems like Christianity is that it teaches people wrong kind of values by teaching them to avoid their own responsibilty. We are all responsible our personal choices, but Christians teach to trust religious authorities and quiet your own judgment skills. Most people still like I said are mentally so weak that they need spiritual authorities to feel themselves secure so this kind of religion suites them wel. As long as they keep their religion as their own business I have no problem with them. Some believe in Jesus and some Santa Claus, I believe in myself and live by that!

I know they are born not made. But even so, not everyone who was a Satanist would have always considered themselves so. At one point some people may have considered themselves Christian, atheist, or some other religion. Even the Magus Gilmore said he used to be atheist.

I was not personally attacking you Janina. Your post just brought up things to me. I am not specifically attacking Christianity either. Honestly Christianity is so big in the US that when someone talks about religion here it seems that Christianity would be 50% of the conversation.

Not to argue with you more, even though I love to argue, what was I talking about that was illegal, and if burning a bible was illegal why the fuck should it be? It is paper, maybe pollution laws I guess, but no paper should be protected in such way. Even if it was a satanic bible I am pretty sure that it would be ok.

What I was meaning, was that intolerable religious ideas should not be tolerated when they cause harm. I am not saying to attack other religions, but why should we accept them. I was pretty sure this country (USA) was supposed to have a separation of church and state, and I am pretty sure Satanism accepts this.

As for my views. I used to be radically Christian, I had an inside view of the workings as my father went to Sem, and was becoming a pastor. I had a lot of the same observations of Anton Lavey, where I saw people using religion for personal power, affairs, people in church saying one thing then doing another, pastors doing things for themselves not because they were better, or had personal interest for others. This shook me, and I looked at things past faith. From there I was lost not sure what was real. This was many years. Eventually I researched every religion I could, although at first turned away from the CoS because of ignorance as to what it was, from being brain washed. I realized it had been (pun pun) demonized. It was not what I had believed it was. I thought it was said, eventually people will come to find the left hand path. I cannot think that most peoples journeys were not similar. But I do not think I am complete. I do not feel I would be any great addition to the CoS at this time.

I really hope that cleared up some things.

As for why other religions, not just including Christianity I believe are harmful. Individually I was harmed, I wasted a lot of my life. My familiy was harmed, my mother especially by believing in scriptures and that people who were "religious" were good she was forced through rape, other forms of abuse, and torture. The things that are most attributed to Satanism are many times performed by the people who most argue against them. People repressed are more likely to perform those actions they are not allowed to do.

There are people from the Netherlands here ask them about drugs, alcohol and sex. How much they are obsessing about these things compared to the tourists.

Religion in general is a natural step in the evolution of the human society. If Christianity wouldn't rise, indeed, another cult would rise instead of it.

But this does not mean that we are obligated to accept 'the Christian way things are'. I mean, everyone may believe whatever they wish to. But only at the condition of keeping it to themselves. Crusades and burning people on bonfires go a little beyond that line!

I hear a lot about tolerance, especially in discussions between believers and atheists. Though, haven't you noticed that this tolerance is purely one-sided? Try to demonstrate doubts about their 'sacred' doctrines and they'll cut you off with the immunity of tolerance towards them and their ideas. But if you will try, let's say, to claim your right of tolerance towards you and your ideas, which oppose to Christianity - not a damn thing happens. We tolerate them, but only a few answer with the same.

_________________________
"I'll give you black sensations up and down your spineIf you're into evil, you're a friend of mine..."

I do not mean people who are specifically tolerant, as sometimes it is more a personality issue than a religious one. When I say this I do not mean something like a counter crusade, but I do feel that at least some action should be taken at certain times.

Like for example the question, 'Should religion be a major part of a candidate's platform?' I believe no. Religion should not be what determines decisions, logical thought, ethical and moral considerations. Although sometimes the ideas may coincide, they should not be a major part of what determines your decisions. Use your fucking brain, not your beliefs. Beliefs are not moral, or ethical. They cannot be proven false, because if you believe something you believe it, unless you are lying about that it cannot be false.

For example I could believe in a bright red penis that grants people powers if you rub a your dick and therefore representing it.. I can't prove there isn't one, but in the end you are just jacking off.

Anyways, I agree. It is one-sided, and the argument half the time is "Well that's just what I believe", or something like "God works in mysterious ways". I already addressed the first argument. The other, when the fuck does that make sense? If I was at a store working as a cashier and the boss said, there is 140$ missing, where is it? And I replied 'It's a mystery' when would that work? So why should it work as an answer to an argument... Sorry a little heated myself about all this.

I know I shouldn't be upset and it is a waste of time, but shouldn't stupid people be punished?

I know I shouldn't be upset and it is a waste of time, but shouldn't stupid people be punished?

I think ALL people, stupid or less stupid, punish themselves when they don't make sure to create a life that is full of joy. - As much as possible anyway

Since you already know that you are wasting your time when you want to punish ''stupid'' people ( They often destroy themselves ) so why should you do the work?! - Unless of course you have to because they really get in your way.

If your personal agenda is to fight against the Christian Church whom ,you think, have cheated you then that is the project you got to take care off. Still, was your personal agenda what ever you should not wait others to follow you in your crusade or others to do something about this or that thing.

If you wanna change things, you have to be the change yourself!

I would not call myself anti-Christian, but I am anti-all spiritual religions. This means I do not have obsession against one certain form of spiritual religion, I question them all! In that light my earlier statement where I said that as long Christians leave me alone I have no problem with them is the most logical idea. My life is my life and I use it the way which suites me the best, my way is not in crusade against church but living my way with the people I want to support my totally carnal life!

I just was venting I guess. Pointless I guess really, but it made me feel better. They have of course caused bad things to happen to me, but I am not sure if me fighting against them is worth it. I think people are not understanding what I am meaning, and I am not calling for some mass uprising, as much as hoping for some sort of awakening in people, but again it is doing me no good posting that here.

I don't think they have cheated me any more than anyone else. I do not blame only Christianity either which again maybe was a misunderstanding as that is the religion I grew up with, so it was the one which affected me which is why I used it lastly in that example.

I do not have an obsession with Christianity, but I do feel that religion should not be a thing used by people in government to base decisions at least not in entirety, unless it happens to fall in the same lines as logic. I do not believe that spiritual religion is good for society. These are all things I think, could try to logically argue, but maybe I broadened my scope of what I was saying too far compared to what I was originally meaning.

What I guess I mean is in daily life, I do not feel that we should have to tolerate everything just because it is base entirely on someone's beliefs. If it is a good argument logically I can accept that. If they disagree on a specific belief system that is to be accepted as not everyone is the same, but basing a decision entirely on a belief with no logical reasoning behind it is, for lack of a better word, stupid.

I just am not sure exactly how I could counter-act it when having it thrown in my face, many times during a day. Avoidance is not always a possibility, but aside from smacking someone in the head , which might be pleasurable but useless, I am not quite sure the proper recourse.

I am sorry if I seem to be cynical negative or whatever, but to me it is my own reality in how I see it. I have seen many stupid people succeed as well being competent, honest, capable, well spoken, and hardworking are not always the way to get ahead. Many times cheating, lying, being manipulative, and shirking responsibility then taking credit are. Not trying to throw a pity party, just stating what I have personally seen, especially the last one.

I am getting way too far along past this, I am not normally so unpleasant as this. I just am opinionated, and sometimes I don't have to deal with these types of people, and I am finally able to get away from many of them (at least temporarily).

I am not pointing my venom at any of you. And I agree with Janina and should realize it more, if i do want change I will have to be the change itself. I just need to figure out how to do this.

I am of neutral grounds on this issue because I am not gay. So one way or another makes no difference to me. My girlfriend has some very close gay friends and she feels they should have equal rights.

I think the fight for acceptance is stupid. You can't possibly force everyone to accept what you deem appropriate. There will always be assholes who will say gay marriage is an abomination to god and therefor not acceptable. Hell even some atheists won't accept homosexuals.

I say if you want to be gay then be gay and do what you feel is in your best interest. Put the bullshit causes aside.

So law enforcement will now have access to the use of Drones. In some states anal sex is illegal. Do you think in these states the use of Drones can be used to spy on personal habits in order to stop such acts? Or is such a thought preposterous?