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A lot of people, so I've seen/heard from, believe that ESO will turn into what SWTOR once did. TERA switched, The Secret World switched, Rift...etc.

Do you think dishing $15/mo will be a bit much to some players? I mean even ArcheAge in RU Beta is $9/mo for premium.

Yes I do believe it will, cant say if it will be quickly or take years just yet. It will come down to total sales, player retention and corporate expectations.

The main reason I believe it will is the corporate factor. We have no idea just how much the parent company is expecting, I am sure it is high since they allowed the use of the IP, but how high we have no idea.

The game could sell 4 million copies making it one of the top selling MMOs of all time but if the corporation was expecting 6 million, they can force a F2P switch. Same with if the corporation expects 2 million subscriptions, but it drops below because many leave the game.

In essence that does make it like SWTOR. It sold over 2 million copies which places in near the top of the MMO sales chain, debatably kept around half of those players yet went F2P because EA required more.

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Originally posted by Gravarg

There's no way to tell. That's up to Zenimax...I hope it never does. I liked Rift, played it until it went F2P. Then I dropped it like a bad habit. I will never play a F2P, nickel and dime MMO. If it comes to a point where there are no F2P MMOs, then I guess my long relationship with MMOs is over.

To all the entitlement babies, I'm glad it's P2P. It keeps people like you out of the game. If you can't afford $0.50 a day, you shouldn't be playing games, you should go get another job.

Im with you on that man. People who complain about paying a sub seriously need to get their heads out of their asses and get a damn job. F2P games are TERRIBLE in almost every aspect. Quality, quantity, you get a bunch of washed up bitter kiddies bitching about everything.

Stay as a Sub and Ill play you as long as Im having fun(which in ESO's case is LOT). I know 1 big thing alot of ppl who are complaining about the game, they have inadaquate time playing the game to truly get a good impression of it. This game blossoms the more you play it... It truly is something special.

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People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

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Originally posted by Tondagon

People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

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Originally posted by Tondagon

People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

We don't have F2P in the west. We have freemium games and they are doing fine.

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Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by Tondagon

People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

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Originally posted by Tondagon

People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

Yes, please tell me how Gw2 was designed for the chinese market from the get go :) Or Neverwinter in that regard.

Also do tell me how TESO has higher production value than Gw2 or SWTOR or Tera? Are they using a better graphics engine? No, they licensed a crappy one, and it will show. Are their animations life-like? Have you ever heard the joke about the carrot and the butthole? :) What about armor design and armor variety? How exactly TESO has a higher production value than games like Rift, Tera, SWTOR, TSW? Sure ... they sunk some millions of dollars for voice overs of AA actors, but in the ends whats the point in all this if players are mostly just going to skip through conversations? Does the game have any notable special effects? Cinematic effects?

You need to stop boohoo the old phrase that if its free it must suck, because that's a bunch of balooney. I mean sure, games like Scarlet Blade do suck, I agree ... but then again, we have DFUW, which is pretty bad and it has subscription game. How does it have any more production value of the games I listed above? Last I heard it flopped hard. How's that Warhammer Online doing? Oh right ... the game died. What about Tabula Rasa? Oh right ... the game imploded.

Do you see the trend here? A single subscription fee is not a sign of quality nor it is a sign of value. It's a simple and proficient cash grab from the folks like you.

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Originally posted by Tondagon

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by Tondagon

People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

Another personal opinion being masqueraded as fact i see.

Watch and see what happens in the next few years.

Looks like another self appointed seer who can see in future. I am sure everyone is gonna believe some random guy on internet because he said so.

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Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by Tondagon

Originally posted by Bigdaddyx

Originally posted by Tondagon

People really need to realize that the F2P model is not designed for western MMO's and their players. It was originally designed for the eastern market which has a completely different business model and players with a generally much higher predilection for, and tolerance of in game gambling.

The adoption of it in the west has led to a glut of poorly implemented and unsustainable business models, leading to a saturation of the market with games that people have no vested interest in, nor commitment to. Both of which are necessary for a MMO to retain a viable population level within the game, allowing for continued development and profit.

In addition the F2P model has created an entitlement mindset among many MMO players. "Why should I pay for game A, when game B is allowing me to play for "free". Not taking into consideration that game A has a far higher production value and includes everything which is available within the game. While game B is designed so that you will only see it's limitations after you pass through several content pay gates.

The F2P model has also fostered the notion in some game companies that it is acceptable to take multiple dips into players wallets with subscriptions, cash shops, etc. This is completely unacceptable, and people need to let game companies know it.

Thankfully, the F2P model is beginning to self destruct as more and more players see it for what it is, and vote with their wallets for better business models.

Another personal opinion being masqueraded as fact i see.

Watch and see what happens in the next few years.

Looks like another self appointed seer who can see in future. I am sure everyone is gonna believe some random guy on internet because he said so.

I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

Your damn right I praise this game, I like what I have seen, and have enjoyed playing it. I know this is not a popular opinion to wanna be hipsters such as yourself, but it is what it is.

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Originally posted by Tondagon

I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see.

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I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see.

Here is a little suggestion for you, try and actually talk about the issues at hand instead of resorting immediately to personal and ad hominem attacks. At least keep it interesting.

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I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see.

Here is a little suggestion for you, try and actually talk about the issues at hand instead of resorting immediately to personal and ad hominem attacks. At least keep it interesting.

Asking you to not pull stuff out of thin air is personal attacks? truth is you got nothing to back up your claims other than old and rusted 'it will happen because i said so' excuse. And for someone who called me a hipster please dont even try to play the poor victim card.

You could have easily shut me up with an intelligent response explaining why F2P games are self destructing...but you can not. And honestly i am not surprised.

New accounts likes yours always appear fast close to release of new game and then disappear equally fast once the job is done. Not my first rodeo here.

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I didn't say to believe me, I said to keep you own eyes open and watch what happens. Or not, your choice.

So you cant not even back up your claim rather than 'just watch and see'. Here is a little suggestion. if you want to engage in discussion try to atleast make an informed post with some tangible information.

If you are here just to update status then FB is what you need or maybe a twitter.

Oh and anyone who doesn't agree with your 'i know the future' posts is a hipster..i see.

Here is a little suggestion for you, try and actually talk about the issues at hand instead of resorting immediately to personal and ad hominem attacks. At least keep it interesting.

Asking you to not pull stuff out of thin air is personal attacks? truth is you got nothing to back up your claims other than old and rusted 'it will happen because i said so' excuse. And for someone who called me a hipster please dont even try to play the poor victim card.

You could have easily shut me up with an intelligent response explaining why F2P games are self destructing...but you can not. And honestly i am not surprised.

I honestly can't be bothered, it is clear that you are just looking for an argument, and I don't feel inclined to give you the pleasure. So yay! you win, go you.

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I think any MMO releasing with a sub model these days is doing so with the full intention of cashing in on launch day box sales and high sub numbers for the first few months with full plans on going F2P when the subs start to drop like they always do around a year. ESO and Wildstar both will go F2P not because of them "failing" but by design.

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I honestly can't be bothered, it is clear that you are just looking for an argument, and I don't feel inclined to give you the pleasure. So yay! you win, go you.

Yeah sure. By the way if you just want to post something random and feel special then FB is that way. There nobody would even ask you to explain your point.

This is a discussion board so ofcourse i expect people to not just make claims but also back it up with some information and provide links etc to atleast give some idea of what you are trying to say.

Passing off personal opinions as facts isn't what gets you a good discussion but then again that is not why you are here..to have discussions.

Actually I was, unfortunately I did not realize that I would be giving a dissertation and require references and source material. I will in the future preface everything with "IMHO" to prevent such confusion.

By the way let me tell you "IMHO" of course, that I don't give a flying monkey what you want, need, or desire. I do not have to justify anything to you, you pompous, arrogant, little self appointed guardian of nothing. Your posts are abrasive, toxic, and solely designed to boost your ego at the expense of all.