Alternative WWII German Tank Design...

Would the Germans get their tank design almost dead right by 1939 if they adapted the infamous Christie suspension and grafted it onto the Panzer IV chassis? And instead of building separate tanks for separate roles, instead merely build a Christie Panzer IV that can be fitted with either a 50 mm L/60 or 75 mm L/24 cannon. The Christie Panzer IV would have up to 45 mm of frontal sloped armour like the Panther (although unlike the Panther it would be as mechanically solid and as easy to produce as the original Panzer IV).

The Panzer Is would be melted down to make better AFVs. The Panzer IIs would mostly be converted into a mobile assault guns. Most Panzer IIIs would be converted into StuG IIIs, although the Panzer III in it's original form would make an excellent mobile observation and command vehicle.

Some PzII variants used the Christie suspension, but the Germans may have considered leaf-spring designs more favorably still.

Ideally, the Germans should have standardized on one Panzer III design equipped with torsion bar suspension that could fulfill the roles of the OTL PzIII/PzIV setup. There was a Panzer design of a PzIV turret mounted on a Panther like chassis, but that design never got produced.

I've got Chamberlain and Doyles very detailed book on German tanks and their variants, I'll look it up. If you're interested in the subject it's a must have book, as it even covers the captured Allied vehicles pressed into service and god knows how many concepts and prototypes.

I've got Chamberlain and Doyles very detailed book on German tanks and their variants, I'll look it up. If you're interested in the subject it's a must have book, as it even covers the captured Allied vehicles pressed into service and god knows how many concepts and prototypes.

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I'm not that interested in those kind of thing, but thanks for the effort.

It's just that I remember seeing a picture with what aldw described and the caption or description claimed it was a Panther fitted with a Pz. IV like turret during testing.

edit: considering it also happened at the end of the war with Panthers fitted with Panther II's 'schmallturm' turrets, it could have happened before.

Would the Germans get their tank design almost dead right by 1939 if they adapted the infamous Christie suspension and grafted it onto the Panzer IV chassis? And instead of building separate tanks for separate roles, instead merely build a Christie Panzer IV that can be fitted with either a 50 mm L/60 or 75 mm L/24 cannon. The Christie Panzer IV would have up to 45 mm of frontal sloped armour like the Panther (although unlike the Panther it would be as mechanically solid and as easy to produce as the original Panzer IV).

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So...a German T-34.

Edit: Well actually, more like a cross between a T-34 and a Sherman, especially the latter's better "soft" features, which isn't a bad thing given Shermans are greaty underrated by most.

Would the Germans get their tank design almost dead right by 1939 if they adapted the infamous Christie suspension and grafted it onto the Panzer IV chassis? And instead of building separate tanks for separate roles, instead merely build a Christie Panzer IV that can be fitted with either a 50 mm L/60 or 75 mm L/24 cannon. The Christie Panzer IV would have up to 45 mm of frontal sloped armour like the Panther (although unlike the Panther it would be as mechanically solid and as easy to produce as the original Panzer IV).

No matter how you sliced the Germans were fucked. They had to contend with fighting the Soviet Union, Commonwealth and the US. While the Germans could have outproduced the British that wasn't going to happen with Sovs or America.

The Panzer III was designed to be medium workhorse of tank and the IV a heavy infantry support platform. By the time Adolf the Housepainter thought it was a good idea that peace in Europe meant having a villa in St Petersburg the panzertruppen were in for a rude awakening. That combo was great for '39-41 but hindsight is 20/20.

IOW what Fritz the Hun needed was a ride that could support a 75/L70 gun, had a single sloped hull glacis and fairly respectable turret glacis and that going with a tank with a Christie suspension wouldn't mean that was going to happen. So a Panther by mid to late 1941. And a Panther earlier wouldn't mean the tank wouldn't be w/o problems.

The Germans like many others ran into the problems of trying to find a compact enough that would provide the necessary torque and horsepower. The Red Army succeeded in that they modified a Hispano a/c engine into a diesel and the US went through radials, V8s, twin sixes, huge multibanks but the Germans focused all their energy with Maybach, a company that couldn't meet up with demand and often it's technological base was stagnant.

The Christie suspension was a space eater. While it did allow a good deal of road wheel travel as a rule it was generally viewed as a suspension for light tanks or lighter medium tanks such as a the British cruisers. So a Christie IV wouldn't necessarily mean the turret ring would support a bigger gun. In fact the IV was generally maxed out at using a 75/L48 gun which were generally viewed as adequate in blasting Soviet light tanks and BT series and almost good enough against the -34/76. The 75/L48 was fucking hopeless against Soviet heavies such as the KVs.

The T-34 was a natural outgrowth of a variety of lighter Soviet tank designs but remember the Red Army's last Christie tank was the T-34. Because of it's sloping glacis and wide hull the -34 was able to accomodate an 85mm gun but that weapon was more comparable to the US 76mm mounted on the later models of the M4 rather than the 75/L70 of the Panther or the 88/L56 of the Tiger I.

While Heereswaffenamt were no doubt torn whether to go with a torsion bar suspension for their heavier rides or an externally mounted suspension units C

The Panzer IV seemed necessary, clearly better than the Panzer III and was in some ways better than the T-34 - why didn't they ignore the Panther and carried on with the Panzer IV, a tank that could clearly engage most enemy armour after 1941?

The Panther could engage T-34s of any distinction and destroy them in large numbers. It was probably the best tank of the war. If anything, the Germans needed to stop making every tank Tiger and up, even if the Tiger was also a successful and powerful design. T-34/76s could fight Pzkpfw IVs on even terms; they had to go right up to Panthers and Tigers and hit them in the sides. T-34/85s still had to get very close.

The StuG III actually racked out the most kill counts against the slightly overrated T-34, although that must be attributed to the StuG III being the first German AFV being upgunned with the more competitive longer caliber high velocity 75mm cannon and being one of the more common Panzer units from late 1941 onwards (but the 50mm cannon could penetrate T-34 armour, but it was not always guaranteed).

The StuG III actually racked out the most kill counts against the slightly overrated T-34, although that must be attributed to the StuG III being the first German AFV being upgunned with the more competitive longer caliber high velocity 75mm cannon and being one of the more common Panzer units from late 1941 onwards (but the 50mm cannon could penetrate T-34 armour, but it was not always guaranteed).

The Germans would've benefited a lot more from earlier mobilization than they would have from the 'perfect' tank design. If they had put their economy in a 'total war' state when the war began (1939), they might have overwhelmed the Soviets in the first year of the Russian war.

I can see the T-34/76 in 1941 as an overrated tank due to poor optics, few radios, green tank crews and lack unit coherency which was why the well drilled and more coherent Panzer units were more successful in spite of not necessarily being the better tanks (although most Soviet armour brigades consisted of the T-26 and BT-5/7 tanks which the German 50 mm and even 37 mm cannons could destroy).