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first off i just wanna say rols, you are a stand up guy, i wish all guitar techs were like you, instead of tryin to ass pummel us little guys.

anyway, my friend is having difficulties with the neck and tuning on his epiphone sg. its got a stop tail bridge. the thing will not stay in tune at all and he's checked the intonation numerous times. after a few minutes of paying it will fall out of tune again. so he took it to a shop and they confirmed that the neck was bowed, due to what they said was a result of the truss rods being way too tight and hes never touched them. they backed off the tension as far as they could and its still bowed. then they suggested he spend $80 on locking tuners and another 40 or so on a new nut.

what we want to know is...is this gonna help at all? should he just get a new neck? and is he getting raped on parts?

any insight you could provide would be most welcome and if you could give us some ball park prices on some quality parts (i know you're a big fan of schaller, these here i know arent schaller) we would be much obliged, at least he'll know what hes walking into. thanks for impartin some wisdom on the ignorant masses. [img]graemlins/thumb.gif[/img]

I'm not Rols, but I'll throw my two cents in till he answers.
Locking tuners should prevent any slippage at all, and if it's a hardtail then it shouldn't be catching on the nut to any extent, assuming the nut is cut properly. The shop should have checked for that, assuming you've kept to the same gauge of string.
You could try locking tuners and if that doesn't work then a neck is the way to go in this case.
The shop should have been able to correct a bow, which will affect action, but shouldn't be putting your guitar constantly out of tune unless the neck is shifting as it's played.
Check to make sure it's not twisted. If it is don't even bother trying to repair it unless it's a really high end neck.
If you replace the neck you can keep the locking tuners for the new neck. They're always a good idea.

Something else... A little obvious, but make sure you are wrapping your strings securely around the tuning machine pegs. Three wraps will do you, and make sure your bridge is secure and not loose in even the slightest way. There is a lot of tension between the saddles and the nut, and if something isn't sitting just right it could be throwing you out of whack. And MOST importantly... Before spending any cash on your ax, get a second opinion. Don't tell them the other tech's assessment, go in like it was the first you saw the problem, and see what the next guy says. You can cut the nut yourself with a good eye and a measuring tool instead of paying $40 to get ass raped... Just a suggestion. [img]graemlins/bounce.gif[/img]

I would like to say that I don't agree with the tech saying that the neck bow is causing that, that just makes your guitar play buzzy and fretout, and if it wasn't doing that don't bother with it for right now that will not effect your tuning, is\was the action ok ?? was it buzzing or fretting out ?.
as for the tuning problem 99% of the time on st guitars it's the tuners, you either have them wound inproperly or they just suck, try rewinding them with at least 3 wraps before you tuck them in and another trick Imlike to use is to take and put a drop of 3 in 1 oil on the wrap at the tuner, try that if that don't work then try new tuners.
Rol.

Good advice all around, and I agree, tell him to buy the locking tuners, it'll be the best money he ever spent on gear.

The nut also needs to be checked out by a competent tech to make sure the slots aren't pinching the strings, and if he doesn't want to invest in a graphite nut, you can use a little graphite grease on the nut to help reduce string snagging.

SBS

P.S. Tell your friend to shop around, it sounds like this "tech" was trying to gouge him on the tuners, too. I got the locking Schallers for my Strat for $50.

Originally posted by el_jalepeno:Something else... A little obvious, but make sure you are wrapping your strings securely around the tuning machine pegs. Three wraps will do you,

You're right about that, however, that reason ALONE justifies the purchase of locking tuners, at least in my book.

Stick the string directly through the hole, lock it, snip it, 4 or 5 turns of the tuning peg (as opposed to 50 or 100) and the string is up to pitch. Plus, no fiddling with allen wrenches or locking nuts.

Originally posted by SirBrownSound:
P.S. Tell your friend to shop around, it sounds like this "tech" was trying to gouge him on the tuners, too. I got the locking Schallers for my Strat for $50.

I had overlooked that. $80 is OUTRAGEOUS for locking tuners. I am assembling a Warmoth guitar right now and I just bought Chrome Schaller Mini Locking Tuners from Warmoth for $48. I don't think shipping for just the tuners would be more than a few bucks. I had them shipped along with the neck and rollernut and a few other things and the total shipping was $15.50 for the lot of it.

I guess he's charging the additional $30 for installation? Installation of tuners takes only a few minutes and is pretty much idiot proof. I advise you do it yourself and save some bucks.

Majestik's right. They pay for themselves in less agrivation. I've found that on a good set of lockers even 1/2 to 1 turn holds the string fine.

Prages, the extra cost could have been because some lockers are different post diametre, and the post holes might have to be redrilled, and possibly notched. I don't know if the Shaller lockers would be a direct replacement with out a bit of modification.
I use sperzels and they have a different post size and don't use screws to hold them in place, so I had to notch the wood for the small side posts they use to stay in place.

Originally posted by tribb:
Prages, the extra cost could have been because some lockers are different post diametre, and the post holes might have to be redrilled, and possibly notched. I don't know if the Shaller lockers would be a direct replacement with out a bit of modification.
I use sperzels and they have a different post size and don't use screws to hold them in place, so I had to notch the wood for the small side posts they use to stay in place.

That could be the case. I know for a fact that Klusion posts are smaller in diameter than the Schaller Mini's that I have because the neck that I bought was in Warmoth's Thrift Shop and was drilled for Klusion tuners, but they re-drilled for the Schallers before they sent me the neck. It's a pretty safe bet then that most types of tuners have slightly different diameter posts and some even have couter-sunk cowlings that don't go all the way through the headstock causing the hole on the front of the headstock to be a different diameter than the hole on the back.

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