Forget colourful foliage and dropping temperatures, nothing says autumn for Linux nerds like the arrival of an Ubuntu beta. This season includes twice the fun, with Canonical plotting not one, but two betas for the coming Quantal Quetzal, or Ubuntu 12.10. The first arrived on Thursday.
Quantal Quetzal comes hot on the heels of …

Sigh

Re: Sigh

while there are several encouraging signs that 12.10 will improve on 12.04, unfortunately many of the problems that have plagued Ubuntu's Unity interface since its release remain, including frequent Compiz crashes

I for one would expect a release (yes, even a beta one) to correct such a well known and painful bug that has existed for several releases. But I guess we don't have the same expectations (which incidentally is probably why I prefer Debian over Ubuntu).

Re: Sigh

How do you know that that is the same 'well known' bug? That is such an uninformative and sanitised error message that I would expect it is used when any sort of error occurs that could originate from any of a bazillion different bugs.

@djack

Granted, to be accurate one should read "problem" instead of "bug". But whether this problem is caused by just one bug or several bugs doesn't really change the fact that Unity makes Compiz crash regularly, and that it's still not fixed even though it exists since 10.10 (that's almost 2 years!).

Re: @djack

I'm not saying the problem is not there - the proof is in the screenshot in the article even without looking elsewhere, and i am sure the issue is well documented elsewhere - but Unity and Compiz have been perfectly stable on my computer in 12.04. Slightly sluggish at times, but my Ubuntu box has a P4 and a graphics card from the same era, so I can forgive that.

Re: Sigh

" it seems my laptop doesn't recognize I have both sandybridge graphics AND nvidia. Need to look through the ilnux drivers for that stuff, still a noob."

Does that mean that you have Optimus stuff in there? If so, then you're not a noob, the support just isn't really there seamlessly yet. An NVidia bod is hacking some XRandR stuff to support it, mind. The support for 6xx gen Nvidia devicews under Linux isn't as stellar as you'd expect.. yet. I am sure it will get there, though.

Anyway, you're probably not a noob, just it's a strange situation. If your computer is running OK, and you're happy, I wouldn't sweat it. Obviously, if it's just morbid curiosity, don't let me discourage you from enjoying the excuse to nerd out, though :)

Shame

Re: Shame

Re: Shame

"It may ship with Unity, but, you can easily install Gnome, XFCE and such ."

For varying definitions of "easy". Easy to install the packages, infuriating to make them work properly. I don't know exactly what Canonical did with their switch to Unity, but it broke some things that make a simple "apt-get install gnome" turn into "install the packages.. then spend the afternoon fixing things that break".

Besides, I'm pretty sure hitting the Distribution Upgrade button will override all of your preferences and go back to that godawful Unity thing again. Yes I use Ubuntu, for now. I have Mint in a VM and it's becoming more tempting by the day. It's like Ubuntu... but it works!

Re: Shame

Re: Shame

"For varying definitions of "easy". Easy to install the packages, infuriating to make them work properly" -- Not in my experience. I just searched gnome in Ubuntu Software centre, logged out, adjusted the session to be Gnome instead unity and logged in (as the poster above stated for XFCE)

Re: Shame

The fact people are having to explain it, is the reason the Unity UI fails.

I like Linux, all my machines are Linux but Ui's should be functional and 12.04 removed the simple tick box for getting rid of it, and I just can't be bothered hunting google when the time taken to install ubuntu 12.04 is the same time it took to install MINT 12.

And as I like to try new flavours every now and then, MINT didn't have the issues and still had a functional UI.

- Granted I had loads of graphic issues in MINT to start, but then in 12.04 I had loads of network issues (you still need to install SAMBA, really? It isn't default yet?) to solve, so it balances out.

Re: Shame

Re: @Dredd

[quote]

>>"$ sudo apt-get install xfce4"

isn't it rather "sudo apt-get install xubintu-desktop"?

[/quote]

Depends if you want the basics of xfce4 interface together with the default apps (gnome-terminal, gedit &c) or if you want the whole xubuntu desktop (abiword, gnumeric, leafpad &c). There are various package sets.

No mention of Kubuntu?

Re: No mention of Kubuntu?

Yep - with all the Gnome & Unity hoohah its nice to be able to resort to a stabilised KDE4. Trouble is now Kubuntu is not officially supported are we going the same way as the other *buntu distributions and be broken by Canonical's obsession with Unity?

If so - then I'll be off to a proper mainstream KDE based distribution. Any suggestions?

Re: No mention of Kubuntu?

You might like to take a look at Mageia. It's got most of the Mandriva goodies, e.g. Diskdrake, Mandriva Control Centre and so on but with the assurance that it WILL be maintained, unlike Mandriva which looks decidedly uncertain at the moment.

Re: No mention of Kubuntu?

I instructed an acquaintance by email to install 32-bit Mageia 1 (which I was investigating about this time last year) - he'd never installed Linux before. Worked well for him, but I want 64-bit and Mageia 1 x86_64 was an absolute disaster! This was partly due to the ATI graphics. The 32-bit version ran fine on the same box (as does opensuse, kubuntu and all versions of Windows from XP on. Completely and utterly incompetent, by which I mean releasing it as a stable version. I guess the next build will be out by about now, but the fact they released it like that makes me wary of giving it another try. Mandrake was the first distro I tried and remained my favourite up until installing a new Mandriva build a few years ago and I wanted the documentation up during installation and it came up in some Eastern European language. I was quite excited when I learned of the existence of Mageia.

Re: how it's (the) Mageia's fault

Re: No mention of Kubuntu?

I was just about to try Mageia 2. Then I followed the errata link next to the warning that on some notebooks with nVidia or Radeon graphics it might not work (or words to that effect, but anyway the same bloody problem as in Mageia 1! Though I thought it was _only_ Radeons were too hard for them in 1. Now they can't manage nVidia graphics either? Well there go the only two makes I've ever owned!). Apparently the suggested workaround is to use the Live CD, unfortunately then the Wi-Fi probably won't work. Well, I guess I can't complain that this is so bloody amateurish, as after all I asked for it!

Re: I'll say this very quietly...

Yup, many do use Unity and don't shout.

Teenagers I hand my Thinkpad X200s to (1280/800 Intel graphics, Ubuntu just works) can usually work out how to get a Web browser and a wordprocessor going in a couple of minutes, although they do tend to click the system icon ('cogwheel') on the top right when they want to close windows because the window controls are hidden when the window is maximised.

Re: am I a luddite ?

Re: am I a luddite ?

I use my laptop to do real work (development, system admin, office tasks, accounting and a few other things) and I find that Unity is a lot better than GNOME 2 to help me get it done. But then we all have different ways of working and it may just be that my way of working fits Unity whle your way of working fits another environment. That doesn't make either good or bad.

Re: am I a luddite ?

No, it doesn't make you as luddite. Don't get me wrong, I use it and I think it's great for both consuming staff and getting real work done. I have my most used applications locked to the launcher, like I have done in other DEs, the dash makes finding other apps quick in the same way as Windows 7, Gnome shell, Mint Menu and KDE 4 have done for ages, and HUD is cumbersome for some applications like Nautilus, but genuinely useful for things like Gimp where there are lots of options tucked away in the menus.

However, each to their own. That's the point of Linux and the reason we have so many DEs and distributions.

Re: am I a luddite ?

I do development on my machines and use different logins for different setups - things like eclipse and netbeans need different logins for different personalities. Also my kids use my machines and have separate logins.

Unity does not like that at all and switching times seem to get exponentially larger.

I have yet to see what unity does that is supposed to improve my computer experience.

Gone back to xubuntu and things are better but the machines still go away on their own from time to time unless I do a complete re-install.

FIX GNOME

I really wish Canonical would realize that the Gnome developers need an adult - somebody to actually perform project management, and to be the voice of the people who matter: the users. I would love for Canonical to look at the Gnome devs they employ and say

"OK, now we are going to behave like grown-up developers. We are going to stop deprecating features users want just because you saw something you thought was 'cool'. We are going to realize that the desktop computer, the tablet, the phone, and the set-top box are all different user interface paradigms, and deserve different treatment. We are going to insure that before we remove a component, an API, or a feature, we have a form/fit/function replacement ready for use, and only then will we mark something deprecated, and only after a reasonable period of time will we remove the feature. We will examine any module we plan on removing, and work up a detailed set of requirements that module meets. We will NOT engage in the 'Cascade of Attention-deficit disorder Teenager' development mode.

Canonical cannot dictate these changes to the whole Gnome developer community, but it sure as hell can dictate it to you who are paid by Canonical. If you don't like it, to quote The Gord, 'Door's to your left.', HR is down the way and they have forms for letters of resignation. Your immediate job is to come up with a plan for how you will provide form/fit/function replacements for the old desktop - that's a panel, a reasonable window manager with support for multiple workspaces, and all the standard Gnome 2 applet. I want time estimates by end of business today, iteration plans by the end of the next business day, and a schedule for the first iteration the day after that."

I'd also love to see Canonical call Red Hat, Novell, and the leaders of the Debian project, and say "We are doing this whether you help or not, but it would be best if you did help. "

Of course, all that said, there's a lot of things I'd like, but that I'm unlikely to get.

Re: Hmm, when you've done that, can you tell Microsoft too, please?

Canonical EOL on my unit

Canonical continues to move further and further away from it's Debian base, if for no other reason than to be different. I cant stand what they did with runlevels and startup, and the new UI SUCKS. What, we're supposed to remember all the names and functions of our installed apps by icons? Isn't that how the Chinese alphabet got started?

WTF is with these vendors who think a PC that works like a phone is going to be sooooo badass? I write code. I create media. I custom build software packages. I want a command line, not some flashy, inaccurate and poorly responsive touch panel to sooth dull minds.

I still haven't upgraded my Lucid 10.04 laptop, but when I do, I can assuredly say it will not be a Canonical distro. Debian makes a pretty nice desktop these days, and I've been thinking about giving Slackware a spin.

One desktop to rule them all, eh? Good luck with that. What's that proverb.... something about eggs in one basket....