Reality Knowledge Reference Dependent?

I was watching some of Lorele- Fata Morgana's old videos and I watched the movie The Butterfly Effect and there seems to be a whole movement who is obsessed with words like quantum and assures us that we can't know anything.

I feel that it doesn't matter if this is Earth, or the Matrix, or purgatory, or hell. The person is the some being with the same consciousness and the same experiences.

I may make a similar thread on retroactive enchantment, which is similar and related and may involve both psychotherapy and magick..

I hope I'm not too incoherent. Whatever works..

Last edited by InitiateRemus on Tue May 10, 2011 10:53 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : ..)

InitiateRemus wrote:I was watching some of Lorele- Fata Morgana's old videos and I watched the movie The Butterfly Effect and there seems to be a whole movement who is obsessed with words like quantum and assures us that we can't know anything.

I feel that it doesn't matter if this is Earth, or the Matrix, or purgatory, or hell. The person is the some being with the same consciousness and the same experiences.

I may make a similar thread on retroactive enchantment, which is similar and related and may involve both psychotherapy and magick..

I hope I'm not too incoherent. Whatever works..

I look forward to anything you may produce on this, whatever its perspective. Many seek the certainty of knowing absolutes, of creating mental structures which give them a sense of safety irrespective of whether they contain any truth or not, and conversely those who create a different type of structure where knowing has no place, finding a different kind of security in that 'knowledge'. While our knowing can continue to expand ad infinitum that does not imply we know nothing until we arrive at its farthest reaches (in itself an impossibility), and as you point out, what we call it matters not one iota. Both 'sides' appear to be seeking some sort of cosy formula which in reality doesn't exist. Many formulae contain realities, yet none are all of it.

InitiateRemus wrote:I was watching some of Lorele- Fata Morgana's old videos and I watched the movie The Butterfly Effect and there seems to be a whole movement who is obsessed with words like quantum and assures us that we can't know anything.

I feel that it doesn't matter if this is Earth, or the Matrix, or purgatory, or hell. The person is the some being with the same consciousness and the same experiences.

I may make a similar thread on retroactive enchantment, which is similar and related and may involve both psychotherapy and magick..

I hope I'm not too incoherent. Whatever works..

I look forward to anything you may produce on this, whatever its perspective. Many seek the certainty of knowing absolutes, of creating mental structures which give them a sense of safety irrespective of whether they contain any truth or not, and conversely those who create a different type of structure where knowing has no place, finding a different kind of security in that 'knowledge'. While our knowing can continue to expand ad infinitum that does not imply we know nothing until we arrive at its farthest reaches (in itself an impossibility), and as you point out, what we call it matters not one iota. Both 'sides' appear to be seeking some sort of cosy formula which in reality doesn't exist. Many formulae contain realities, yet none are all of it.

Time and space have richer than one-dimensional structures that people seem to ascribe to them, just like life itself has been shown to be vastly more complicated than previously thought. (see chaos theory, chaos magic theory, butterfly effect, and morphic resonance)

I think we humans need to seek a middle ground. Know we can know some things, and not lust for the unknowable.

It seems that people either swing to an almost Amish view of life and the universe or the opposite.. a view where humans will evolve into gods and create life themself or master time travel, etc.

Personally, I am fine just being an apprentice god and balancing the disciplines like our friend Leonardo da Vinci.

As for retroactive enchantment, if it even works in anything other than a neurolinguistic programming sense, would require serious preparation and at least some understanding of math, logic, basic temporal mechanics.

"The future is the past, the present is the future, the past is the present, GODS, I hate Temporal Mechanics!" -- Captain Janeway, Star Trek Voyager

"Young people, who are not entrenched in their ways of thinking, are said to have more flexible minds. They learn languages easier and pick-up new skills quicker. The connection between creativity and cognitive flexibility should be obvious." Marshall Barnes

As I have said before, a mind not growing, thinking can become "entrenched" as Marshall put it.

"It is naive to think that scientific knowledge is the only reliable knowledge. This is the naive, yet still dominant positivistic view."

W.J. Korab-Karpowicz

Last edited by InitiateRemus on Wed May 11, 2011 9:32 pm; edited 3 times in total (Reason for editing : yes)

InitiateRemus wrote: Personally, I am fine just being an apprentice god and balancing the disciplines like our friend Leonardo da Vinci.

As am I. Realistically nothing can be achieved by going in only one direction or clinging to any one belief, whatever extreme it originates from.

"Young people, who are not entrenched in their ways of thinking, are said to have more flexible minds. They learn languages easier and pick-up new skills quicker. The connection between creativity and cognitive flexibility should be obvious." Marshall Barnes

This is key, and obvious, only curiously not to many. Age may still take the body on its linear journey (though flexibility of mind can have an impact on that, and the appearance of that), but there is a choice. It seems human nature to find solidity to cling on the on the way down the river, but soon it entangles and enchants and gives the impression of continued movement when in fact it is like an anchor, or weeds stifling movement, and thus creativity and development. But it is a choice, always a choice.

"Lao Tzu fell asleep and dreamt he was a butterfly. Upon wakening he asked, Am I a man who has just been dreaming he was a butterfly? Or a sleeping butterfly now dreaming he is a man?"

"IntroductionIn this chapter I venture rather far away from my areas of expertise and present some ideas that I have read about and believe on the basis of generally-accepted scientific consensus. The ideas, in brief, are these:

There is a level of physical reality at which things and events are quite tiny, less than about 100 nanometers long. This level is called the "quantum" level of reality.

Things and events at the quantum level of reality behave differently from things and events that are larger. They are indeterminate, meaning that the outcomes of events cannot be predicted in advance, except in statistical terms. In other words, an initial configuration of things and forces does not determine a subsequent configuration. Mathematics can describe the probability of a range of outcomes, but cannot predict a single outcome.

The synapses in the human brain are small enough – about 20 nanometers – that quantum indeterminacy operates there. Distances within the neuron where critical events such as the influx of calcium ions happen are even smaller. Hence it is in principle not possible to predict whether any given neuron will fire or not.

Our thoughts, perceptions, emotions and intentions are correlated with neural functioning. Once something happens at the synaptic level of the brain, ordinary physical causality takes effect and we experience thoughts and feelings, etc. But what initiates those thoughts or feelings is not pre-determined.

From these ideas I infer the following:

It does not contradict scientific knowledge to say that something nonphysical determines whether a neuron will fire or not. Thus, it does not contradict scientific knowledge to say that the quantum level of reality is where something nonphysical intervenes in the physical world."

Instead of clinging to science, religion, or new age beliefs perhaps one can determine his own path through the wilderness of reality.

It is a real detriment to understanding the true nature of reality if ‘dualism’ is part of your belief system.