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Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by sangha

Dude, the self-described conservative republican has already explained where the idea to investigate the applications of Tea Party groups originated, and it has nothing to do with Obama, or anyone in the White House.

And as far as republicans, or anyone else, being liars - When they say something that makes them look bad, and absolves their enemies of wrongdoing, I assume they're telling the truth.

I may as well be talking to the wind on this but what the guy said was that he's the one who started this grouping. That's fine and I have no reason to believe that it isn't true but that doesn't mean that it isn't inappropriate targeting. Furthermore, when this inappropriate targeting (all kinds of people at the top level including Cummings agree that it was inappropriate) was discovered nothing was done about it. THAT is where the problem lies.

People in large organizations make bad decisions all the time but proper accountability means that those decisions will be discovered and corrected. Since nobody in the chain of command - right up to Schulman - did anything to fix this problem that leads us to a very limited number of conclusions:
1. They didn't see it as a problem
2. They recognized the problem but chose not to address it
3. They condoned the practice

If they didn't see it as a problem that that, in and of itself, is a pretty doggone big problem.

If they recognized the problem and chose to do nothing then that's a conspiracy.

If they condoned the practice then they were willfully engaged in using the IRS for acts of political intimidation or influence.

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by Lutherf

I may as well be talking to the wind on this but what the guy said was that he's the one who started this grouping. That's fine and I have no reason to believe that it isn't true but that doesn't mean that it isn't inappropriate targeting. Furthermore, when this inappropriate targeting (all kinds of people at the top level including Cummings agree that it was inappropriate) was discovered nothing was done about it. THAT is where the problem lies.

That was dishonest.

You claimed that the targeting was based on political ideology. His testimony, which you now claim you have no reason to not believe, was that the targeting had NOTHING to do with political ideology.

And so now that your dishonest whine has been debunked, now you're going to claim that the "real" problem is how nothing was done about it (even though the fact that there was an investigation, and the head of the IRS has resigned proves that something *was* done about it)

People in large organizations make bad decisions all the time but proper accountability means that those decisions will be discovered and corrected. Since nobody in the chain of command - right up to Schulman - did anything to fix this problem that leads us to a very limited number of conclusions:
1. They didn't see it as a problem
2. They recognized the problem but chose not to address it
3. They condoned the practice

If they didn't see it as a problem that that, in and of itself, is a pretty doggone big problem.

If they recognized the problem and chose to do nothing then that's a conspiracy.

If they condoned the practice then they were willfully engaged in using the IRS for acts of political intimidation or influence.

And those problems have been investigated and corrected, and people have been forced to resign, so all of your "concerns" have been addressed. Yet, you continue to express poutrage that nothing has been done about this

It must be hard to see your dreams of this being pinned on Obama get shattered. But don't worry - I'm sure the republicans in congress will come up with a new faux scandal next week. And I'm just as sure that you'll never try to hold *them* accountable for all the lies they've told and all the taxpayer money they're wasting with their sham investigations.

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I don't have any issue with any investigation.

Originally Posted by jaeger19

the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

You claimed that the targeting was based on political ideology. His testimony, which you now claim you have no reason to not believe, was that the targeting had NOTHING to do with political ideology.

And so now that your dishonest whine has been debunked, now you're going to claim that the "real" problem is how nothing was done about it (even though the fact that there was an investigation, and the head of the IRS has resigned proves that something *was* done about it)

And those problems have been investigated and corrected, and people have been forced to resign, so all of your "concerns" have been addressed. Yet, you continue to express poutrage that nothing has been done about this

It must be hard to see your dreams of this being pinned on Obama get shattered. But don't worry - I'm sure the republicans in congress will come up with a new faux scandal next week. And I'm just as sure that you'll never try to hold *them* accountable for all the lies they've told and all the taxpayer money they're wasting with their sham investigations.

If the terms "Tea Party" and "Patriot" along with interests in limiting government overreach were the criteria while "organizing", "Progressive" expanding government were not part of those criteria then it was ABSOLUTELY targeting based on political ideology. That guy may not think so but he's wrong.

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by Lutherf

If the terms "Tea Party" and "Patriot" along with interests in limiting government overreach were the criteria while "organizing", "Progressive" expanding government were not part of those criteria then it was ABSOLUTELY targeting based on political ideology. That guy may not think so but he's wrong.

I see. So now the guy who you claimed you had not reason to not believe, is now a person you don't believe

Just like how the "real problem" was how the IRS targeted people based solely on political ideology, until the "real problem" became how nothing was done about the problem (even though things were done to resolve the problems).

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I don't have any issue with any investigation.

Originally Posted by jaeger19

the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by sangha

I see. So now the guy who you claimed you had not reason to not believe, is now a person you don't believe

Just like how the "real problem" was how the IRS targeted people based solely on political ideology, until the "real problem" became how nothing was done about the problem (even though things were done to resolve the problems).

I know you love these games but they get really old. Using your "logic" if this guy had decided to hang blacks because doing so would be consistent and he claimed that his purpose in doing so was simply a convenient way of grouping victims but in no way was it racial then he'd be justified.

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by Lutherf

I know you love these games but they get really old. Using your "logic" if this guy had decided to hang blacks because doing so would be consistent and he claimed that his purpose in doing so was simply a convenient way of grouping victims but in no way was it racial then he'd be justified.

So now the IRS was hanging black people? :

Originally Posted by Mycroft

I don't have any issue with any investigation.

Originally Posted by jaeger19

the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by danarhea

did you read the transcripts? I did. The fact that he is a Republican is supported by his own testimony, under oath. As for the rest of what you posted, that was good enough to put you on my ignore list for trolling. Buh bye.

Oh please don't put me on ignore. You're hurting my feelings

The IRS has already admitted it purposely targeted the Tea Party. This person can also claim they can fly too. Doesn't mean it's true. A Government that specifically targets citizens for their beliefs doesn't care about oaths or the truth. That much is obvious. Why would a "Conservative Republican" illegally disclose information about the Tea Party to ProPublica? A far left organization. This is some seriously desperate and laughable political theatre here. Cummings is a dishonest hack merely doing Obama's bidding and trying to provide political cover.

It doesn't change anything. It doesn't excuse or absolve the IRS of anything.

Originally Posted by Lutherf

If the terms "Tea Party" and "Patriot" along with interests in limiting government overreach were the criteria while "organizing", "Progressive" expanding government were not part of those criteria then it was ABSOLUTELY targeting based on political ideology. That guy may not think so but he's wrong.

Claiming that the Tea Party wasn't specifically targeted for their beliefs is beyond laughable and pathetically desperate. The IRS already admitted it. That won't stop dishonest posters like the OP and Sangha from defending and excusing tyranny and fascism however.

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by Michael66

FAct is, more than half of the baggers are racists. That's what their real agenda is all about. I'm in the process of proving that now with one example of them being afraid to take a stand against another war. Simply because it would tend to be supportive of Obama in that he opposes the mainstream of the repub party.

But calling me a terrorist supporter is entirely different because the claim doesn't hold water and so it means nothing. if you would like to go the effort of substantiating that claim then I would probably be convinced to argue it.

Am I anti-American? No. I'm anti-American wars that are being waged for phony reasons and I see another one on the horizon. Are you anti-American for refusing to speak up and oppose them? Aren't the majority of your people opposed to another ME war?

Please stop it with the "racists" bit. You are sounding like the little boy who cried wolf. This isn't about racism. This is about the GOP... in particular Issa, flubbing up an investigation by having a predetermined narrative laid out before the facts got there then found out that the facts don't support their narrative. It has nothing to do with race. The same **** happened when the GOP decided to "investigate" Clinton on a slew of non-scandals.

Originally Posted by Moderate Right

The sad fact is that having a pedophile win is better than having a Democrat in office.

Re: IRS targeting linked to Republican staffer

Originally Posted by Bronson

Some desperate liberal spin going on here

The Federal Government used what are supposed to non partisan institutions to specifically target, harass and intimidate Americans based upon their beliefs. That is not in dispute. This information was released by Elijah Cummings who has made repeated contradictory statements and done everything in his power to brush this massive scandal under the rug. He's not even remotely a credible source.

This just shows how desperate The Left is to excuse and dismiss Fascism because their belief in their GodKing Messiah > The Constitution

Right on Bronson. Don't worry about facts. If you want it to be Obama's fault all you have to do is: