So you still get pull backs and require a knife to free them, and in 7 years you've had to cut two or three ropes in situation where a horse could have been injured (or died if it had broken it's neck) - for me that is far too great a risk for horses that are my friends and ones I keep for their whole lives.

Try multiplying out the times he's had horses tied (21 horses X how many days X days in 7 years), then figure how many pullbacks he's had, subtract the ones he didn't have to cut out, then divide the result into the result of the first equation to to figure what the percentage is on those he has had to cut the lead. Now take that result and figure how many of those resulted in injury to the horse...oh wait...that was zero.

Regardless, you can easily see that the risk of a serious injury to the horses he handles from pulling back is actually nearly as small as their risk of being injured by a lightning strike.

Now, I say that tongue-in-cheek, but you get the drift. In my book, the risk of a horse being injured from pulling back, especially after being taught he cannot break free, is much lower than the risk of his being injured, or someone near being injured, as a result of the horse breaking free. The worst injury I have ever witnessed from a horse pulling back that could not break free was bloody gums, when a horse that had been allowed to break free in the past pulled, then lunged forward into a wire fence, hitting her muzzle in the fence. That was the second to last time she ever pulled back.

The last time she pulled, she hauled back on the lead, was just about to lunge forward, when I actually saw the recognition of the situation in her eyes and the change of her mind, and she simply relaxed and stepped forward. Never pulled again. Became a much safer horse to be around.

Neither have I ever witnessed a serious injury to a horse from the horse breaking free, but I have had to chase a couple that caused dangerous situations for themselves and some bystanders as they pushed their way through other horses while dragging a hitching post around, and I have been left afoot a time or two, by horses that broke a lead or snap.

Not saying your way is wrong for your situation. But your way is wrong for mine. Proving either way right or wrong with real numbers and evidence is futile. It's simply a choice.

As for me, I'd rather deal with a young horse pulling a couple times and done with it, than to have to deal with the possibility of a horse pulling and breaking free at a critical time later on.

[QUOTE=thenrie;3492834]Try multiplying out the times he's had horses tied (21 horses X how many days X days in 7 years), then figure how many pullbacks he's had, subtract the ones he didn't have to cut out, then divide the result into the result of the first equation to to figure what the percentage is on those he has had to cut the lead. Now take that result and figure how many of those resulted in injury to the horse...oh wait...that was zero.

Regardless, you can easily see that the risk of a serious injury to the horses he handles from pulling back is actually nearly as small as their risk of being injured by a lightning strike.

Thanks Thenrie, You are right, to add to the numbers, I use to work at a camp where we had just over 100 head, we had a hitching area with hitching rails for 60 head. We tied hard and fast there too. In almost 20 years of working with horse I have found two that would not stand tied. Working in camping I am around large numbers of horse needing to be tied. In 20 years of tying horse all day almost everyday, I have never seen a horse injure it's self fighting being tied. Not to say they can't, I am sure some one will disprove what I have said with a story of a horse that did injure it's self. So yes horse can, however in my experience I have not seen it (lucky me). And in my work having 20or up to 60 horses standing in a hitching area all day, not tied would be one big wreck waiting to happen.

Sure people working with one horse at a time you might never really need to tie your horse. You can put them in a stall or in a trailer at a show or build small pins with portable fencing. But, with me I don't have that kind of options. Also, when I am out on a trail ride with 10 kids, if one falls off (witch they do from time to time) I have to get off and tie up my horse and know it will be there when I am ready to get back on. Not to mention, when hunting season comes. I might ride for an hour or two, get off tie up my horse scout around for a while and that horse better stand tied. So IMO horses should know how to stand tied.

Hay Punktank, great topic I have enjoyed reading every ones opinions. I work at a summer camp we have 21 horses that come in all most every day Monday - Friday all summer long. We tie hard and fast and as "unbreakable" as I can. When I first came to work here 7 years ago they never tied the horse, one would walk away from the hitching area a wrangler would go get it and put it back over and over. I changed that and for about a mouth we had lots of pull-back problems. Now 7 years later, the horses stand tied and only pull back from time to time. We use rope halters with lead ropes tied hard to the halter. We tie with a quick release note and I require all my staff to have a knife on them while at work (if the note won't pull, a knife will) I think in 7 years I have had to cut two or three ropes mostly from a horse pulling back and falling down.

In India they teach elephants to tie by tying the baby elephant to something it can't break once the elephant its big and can break anything it never does because it has learned it can't.
I use the same idea with horses tie them up don't let them break loss, they will learn they can't get loss.

Over here in Australia, from what I understand, the stockman method is similar to the Indian elephant method! They do this stuff when the horse is young and light and can't do much damage to itself or anything else and the horse as an adult still thinks it can't break free.

Without reading the thread (sorry!) I just want to say that "breakable" is not really good. I think some sort of release, like a safety knot or release mechanism is better. But I'm envisioning a horse bolting around with something "breakable" following it on the end of a lead rope! But I think the horse should be tied to something "solid" but for safety reason should be able to be released. The next step is for the horse to "tie" just by thinking it's tied. While I do that with my horses it's not something I specifically train for, not a "requirement" just a good thing.

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