You make good points, bobbo, but at least I think you'll agree that she is very articulate and describes events and facts in a fast, seemingly unrehearsed manner that is very believable, and organized internet trolling may be factual.

That said, the fact that she hedges on abortion and some foreign policy point that I don't remember makes it seem that she has been bitten by the political bug and might not want to say anything that would interfere with her selection as a Republican candidate for VP or other high office.

On the other hand, I agree completely with everything that Dave Rubin had to say. YMMV.

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Thanks TP: yes, she is quite articulate, animated, engaging, positivie and so forth....but the "subject" was why she went from left to right, a story that correctly told would be an invitation for all of us to do the same? But it wasn't instructive and so failed in what it purportedly set itself to do. In my book: not refreshing.

Organized internet trolling: I thought that was a given? I see ads for companies selling the service. Outing trolls all a part of that playground/market place.

I didn't get to the hedging on abortion: always interesting to see a woman do that.....usually hypocritical: no abortion for you as long as I can anonymously visit my private clinic...........

she didn't look old enough for VP? Four years out of college so...25 years old? But gnawing on "the liberal media" and Hillary is a pure political play to sell a book, a speaking circuit, or future political office.....or Faux Spews to age into such set pieces.

I got as far as starting to think that Rubin was just trying to put on a show to appeal to his target audience.....so, my complaint there is probably what he chose not to say rather than what he did say....but I'd have to watch it first.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Dear KAI, my name iz JO 753, I am an Embezzlement Opportunities Analyst at ZOL inc. I believ we can be uv great service to your fine corporation in navigating the many twists and turns in the labiryntian complexitiez inherent in todayz international relationz, especially the American military aerospase market. Pleaze begin this valuable new relationship by sending an acceptans letter and a check for 200,000 American Dollarz.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

I still don't think that Trump colluded with the Russians, Jo, and I'd been grasping at the possibility that Trump was a peacenik in wolves' clothing who might change the direction of US foreign policy, and who appointed guys like Bolton and Pompeo to office in order to keep his enemies close, which may have made me seem like a Trump supporter or apologist.

But now I 've given up on that hope, and it makes no difference to me whether he has voluntarily embraced the Brennan-Clapper-Netanyahu deep state neoconservative fascist agenda or has been coerced into accepting it, or whether he colluded with Russians.

Just wanted you to know that I'm over it and am adding more hard liquor to my beer regimen.

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Tom Palven wrote:I still don't think that Trump colluded with the Russians, Jo, and I'd been grasping at the possibility that Trump was a peacenik in wolves' clothing who might change the direction of US foreign policy, and who appointed guys like Bolton and Pompeo to office in order to keep his enemies close, which may have made me seem like a Trump supporter or apologist.

But now I 've given up on that hope, and it makes no difference to me whether he has voluntarily embraced the Brennan-Clapper-Netanyahu deep state neoconservative fascist agenda or has been coerced into accepting it, or whether he colluded with Russians.

Just wanted you to know that I'm over it and am adding more hard liquor to my beer regimen.

Yeah.....I agree with Joe: what you are doing is using ONE very narrow example of collusion (eg: I agree Trump never met with Putin and agreed to fix the election with his help) as not being true or likely and avoiding all the other varieties of collusion that are already VERY apparent? eg: Trump, meaning him or his related companies, are in debt to Russian Oligarchs or their also rans, and he wants to stay in good graces with them for future business deals: like Kuchner getting $$$$ in loans to keep his erroneous purchase of 666 going down the drain.

And that doesn't even include THE OBVIOUS COLLUSION of everyone around Trump meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary and Trump himself drafting a memo to say it was all about adopting Russian kiddes: "But I never coluded."

Fer Christ Sake: Just Look.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

Tom Palven wrote:I still don't think that Trump colluded with the Russians, Jo, and I'd been grasping at the possibility that Trump was a peacenik in wolves' clothing who might change the direction of US foreign policy, and who appointed guys like Bolton and Pompeo to office in order to keep his enemies close, which may have made me seem like a Trump supporter or apologist.

But now I 've given up on that hope, and it makes no difference to me whether he has voluntarily embraced the Brennan-Clapper-Netanyahu deep state neoconservative fascist agenda or has been coerced into accepting it, or whether he colluded with Russians.

Just wanted you to know that I'm over it and am adding more hard liquor to my beer regimen.

Yeah.....I agree with Joe: what you are doing is using ONE very narrow example of collusion (eg: I agree Trump never met with Putin and agreed to fix the election with his help) as not being true or likely and avoiding all the other varieties of collusion that are already VERY apparent? eg: Trump, meaning him or his related companies, are in debt to Russian Oligarchs or their also rans, and he wants to stay in good graces with them for future business deals: like Kuchner getting $$$$ in loans to keep his erroneous purchase of 666 going down the drain.

And that doesn't even include THE OBVIOUS COLLUSION of everyone around Trump meeting with the Russians to get dirt on Hillary and Trump himself drafting a memo to say it was all about adopting Russian kiddes: "But I never coluded."

Fer Christ Sake: Just Look.

Aside from Trump colluding with Putin to fix the election, which you seem to agree is very doubtful, the rest of the stuff you cite is politics as usual and what lobbying is all about- oil deals, deals to sell weaponry to Saudi Arabia and Israel, etc., etc., etc.

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Tom Palven wrote:I still don't think that Trump colluded with the Russians, Jo, and I'd been grasping at the possibility that Trump was a peacenik in wolves' clothing who might change the direction of US foreign policy, and who appointed guys like Bolton and Pompeo to office in order to keep his enemies close, which may have made me seem like a Trump supporter or apologist.

Tom Palven wrote: Aside from Trump colluding with Putin to fix the election, which you seem to agree is very doubtful, the rest of the stuff you cite is politics as usual and what lobbying is all about- oil deals, deals to sell weaponry to Saudi Arabia and Israel, etc., etc., etc.

Just recognize you have given away your entire position. Yes....its politics as usual but of the illegal kind. Its illegal to do politics as usual with FOREIGNERS regarding political campaigns.

You see the key point??????

Legal vs Illegal??????

........................................... good boy.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

This along with Scott Schools, the top career official at the DOJ quiting without explanation and the prosecutor overseeing the Cohen case in the SDNY, Tatiana Martins going back to her old job in the private sector makes me suspect that THE FIX iz being worked on.

Were they thretend?

I'm not a beleever in wierd coinsidensez, so let me refraze that: They were thretend. Putinz thugz told them to get out or get ded, along with your family.

Who the heck would ever listen to that all the way? I lasted 25 seconds.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

It actually went for an hour and a half, and is some bloke reading an essay by Lysander Spooner from 150 years ago. I doubt Tom listened to it himself.

That's what makes Tom so funny. He also keeps invoking Adam Smith, the economist, who died 2000 years ago, without actually reading Adam Smith. Would Tom like to explain to us how the "hidden hand" works in, for example, the USA's revolutionary army of 1776?

Apparently these 12 alleged Russian hackers are not accused of creating and distributing disinformation, but like the Pentagon archvillains Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, and Chelsea Manning, they are accused of leaking the truth! https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/12-russ ... d=56564708

If one can be taught to believe absurdities, one can commit atrocities. --Voltaire

Tom Palven wrote:Apparently these 12 alleged Russian hackers are not accused of creating and distributing disinformation, but like the Pentagon archvillains Edward Snowden, Julian Assange, and Chelsea Manning, they are accused of leaking the truth!

You complete idiot. They are officers in the GRU (Russian Army Intelligence : signals intelligence). They hacked the Democrats computers to find dirt so that your hero, Donald Trump would win.

You are the idiot who has been copying SVR (Russian civilian intelligence service ) scripted Russian talk points onto our forum.

hannity deep state 6.jpg

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Matt: True or Not? After the hacking and foreign interference: all they leaked was the truth...……..right? No need to lie when its Dumbo's vs Pukes....just reveal their hypocrisy. for real: doing the Media's job.

Recognize and appreciate the irony.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: True or Not? After the hacking and foreign interference: all they leaked was the truth...……..right?

No. A good conman (confidence trickster) never lets the sucker realise he has been conned.

If you read through the holocaust denial propaganda you can see how careful selection and editing can make anything seem like something else is going on. You then use other media to "salt & pepper up the story" so the false and edited information seems to support each other.

Do you think Hillary Clinton was really running a child sex ring out of a pizza shop? No? What about Clinton establishing Islamic law in Florida? No? Well Gorgeous on our forum thinks both these stories are true and supported by the Russians dumping propaganda through their Wikileaks website.

Ask Tom Palven if he has actually read any of the wikileaks material? He hasn't. But he is going to keep spamming how good that information is to support the Russian script to promote Donald Trump.

Matt: the SUBJECT is leaked/released papers from the DNC? NOT all the other nefarious not leaked/released papers issues. The pizza kiddie porn cave was not the product of hacked/released papers.

If you have an example of what was altered in the leaked material please share it as the National Media failed to report on it.

Give it another try...…..

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:Matt: True or Not? After the hacking and foreign interference: all they leaked was the truth...……..right?

No. A good conman (confidence trickster) never lets the sucker realise he has been conned.

If you read through the holocaust denial propaganda you can see how careful selection and editing can make anything seem like something else is going on. You then use other media to "salt & pepper up the story" so the false and edited information seems to support each other.

Do you think Hillary Clinton was really running a child sex ring out of a pizza shop? No? What about Clinton establishing Islamic law in Florida? No? Well Gorgeous on our forum thinks both these stories are true and supported by the Russians dumping propaganda through their Wikileaks website.

Ask Tom Palven if he has actually read any of the wikileaks material? He hasn't. But he is going to keep spamming how good that information is to support the Russian script to promote Donald Trump.

I find it amusing when people insist on using `truth` - that being whatever is sold thru careful manipulation or often simply whatever is spoken with the loudest voice. Personally, I prefer facts, as best can be determined.

The thing that shoud make the anti-Clinton sitizenz start to question the Fox propaganda iz that Bill and Hillary are not in prizon.

The GoPs hav been hammering on them for 30 yirz and the only thing that stuk iz Billz filandering. They made the best uv that, parlaying it into an impeachment, but all the other RED ALERT scandlz eventually faded away no matter how much effort they put into them or how many timez they rezurected them.

A thinking person woud wonder. Bleevrz do not think, they just want to hear more.

Anti-Clinton sentiment creates some strange bedfellows. Far more than the limits of reason can sometimes imagine. Religious fundamentalists have given Trump so many "mulligans" that the word has lost all meaning, even when Trump plays on his own golf courses.
Is this not the primitive tribal mentality that paralyses societal evolution, creates gridlock, and cleaves us before our enemies? The Allies had their hands full in parts of Europe throughout WW2 from divisive groups who cared more about fighting each other than the Nazis. Why not grow up a little and think outside the sofa and the football game for a change?

The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

I have often had to point out that one of the first signs of nuttery is creating your own vocabulary the worst of which is when you make a well understood word/term/concept an adopt/push/dog whistle its opposite meaning.

Just above we have two examples of close cousins: using synonyms as if they had different meanings.

Raise your hand: who here has not seen me post "Buy a Dictionary" 1000 times?

To wit, in the context provided in this thread: truth = facts, and altered = edited. any allusion otherwise is a dodge. Why? Who can say as neither author follows up with why whatever distinction they see is relevant.

Nuttery cracks like that.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

bobbo_the_Pragmatist wrote:I have often had to point out that one of the first signs of nuttery is creating your own vocabulary the worst of which is when you make a well understood word/term/concept an adopt/push/dog whistle its opposite meaning.

Just above we have two examples of close cousins: using synonyms as if they had different meanings.

Raise your hand: who here has not seen me post "Buy a Dictionary" 1000 times?

To wit, in the context provided in this thread: truth = facts, and altered = edited. any allusion otherwise is a dodge. Why? Who can say as neither author follows up with why whatever distinction they see is relevant.

Nuttery cracks like that.

Coining a term that doesn't exist is far from nuttery.

The job of a skeptic is to investigate the unexplained; not to explain the uninvestigated.

There is no reference to coining above. Its is about corruption, propaganda, dog whistles, no think, diversion...etc of already existing words/concepts/ideas.

Buy a dictionary. I'll nudge you:

coin: To make up. ((Ha, ha....not to alter or edit already existing))

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?

FTL: "Amidst all this perfervid consternation Trump is enjoying a few rounds of golf in Scotland. He has also declared that Putin is a "competitor" but not an "enemy," a distinction the politically anencephalic Cold War set cannot grasp."

Ummmm….whoever doesn't think Putin is an enemy of the FREE WORLD...….is a useful idiot. There can be NO disagreement on that. What to DO about it, open to a large range of attitudes and responses.

Reads rather hysterical and of little credibility. Calling out coincidences in "timing" is as lame as it gets.

Whats your beef with Mueller. He appears to me to be doing a stellar job...….. one of the few doing so.

Real Name: bobbo the existential pragmatic evangelical anti-theist and Class Warrior.
Asking: What is the most good for the most people?
Sample Issue: Should the Feds provide all babies with free diapers?