Before I start the one thing that really accelerated growth in US in the early years was the Ownership of Land. Infact most Americans thing owning a house or a condo is the thing to do. Right now the US is in horible debt and cannot find itss way out. We just had a banking crisis, because we love to buy what we do not need. When buying a car having cash is a far better path.

Witht the cloud service Adobe is moving us from Software owners to software owers.

Ok so its 2 bucks a day. That 2 bucks is everday for life. its 1800 in three years. If the Price stays at 50. For a three month plan it is at 80 per month.

If as a country we stay in debt and as inividuals we get deeper in Debt we will not have a thriving economy. I belive that Adobe is doing a diservce to all of uss with the cloud. I would encourage you to read there forewwrd loooking statments (what they tell Wall street) and see how they see profits growing.

If you to choose to own Adobe will need to be on itss toes aand continue to hire qaulity people to build the software and support it.

if you rent they will have you locked in there is no out because you will always want or need the tools.

If you own you will pay less like buying a car.

if you rent you will pay for stuff you dont use. ( No one can really fully use all the titlels) that is a sales pitch. maybe you reaally use 4-5 titleles.

'If you buy the software you are telling Adobe that who they have been is great and you want that for the future,

The flaw in your argument is when you "buy" a perpetual license, you don't actually "own" the software, you license it...that's the difference between tangible personal property (like land) and intellectual property. When you buy software, you buy the right to use it. Yes, with a perceptual license, you maintain the right to use the software in perpetuity (or as long as you have a computer and OS that can run it). With a subscription license, your right to use the software is time limited. But, as shown with the recent PS CS6 (v13), subscription licensees actually got feature upgrades with 13.1 compared to the perpetual licensees who only got bug fixes.

And you would do well to ignore the whole "in the cloud" aspect of the software…subscription licenses are not "cloud" licenses…the cloud part is a different set of features for storing certain items "in the cloud".

I think you need to re-think your position and make sure you really understand the impact (both good and bad) of subscription vs perceptual licenses…

Jeff when i bougt the Adobe Software it was sold as" you will be able upgrade for lifetime' That has beeen removed for people who own CS4

my argument is fully valid because of the words used by Adobe Staff At NAB show years ago. it was also what adobe would say when it would pitch at user groups. even Finaal cut Pro groups.

As for rethink. No sir I asked about crossing to windows during my upgrade and was informed Adobe Cancleling my upgrade and pushing me to the cloud. My possition is i own not rent!Now if the cloud were so awesome then they wwould honor my lic and make it an option and say the cloud is the only way to go.

no Flaw here Jeff the Flaw is buying in to the cloud and thinking that the Adobe you knew a year ago will be there. it will not the Adobe you will find can hardly speak english. is overpriced. no bttter than Cs6 and could care less what you think want or even if it works. Adobe iss trying to be like a utility co

am on creative cloud. I've been charged double, and called repeatedly about it. I just discovered I'm being charged double again, and there is NO phone number listed online for me to call about it. I'm VERY unhappy.

Adobe has a monopoly on the market and the customer service reflects that.

Yes, you own the perpetual license to use the software for as long as you have a machine to run it on...by the way, the EULA (end user license agreement) says nothing about the right to upgrade the software to new versions and it expressly indicates the license is for a single OS platform. You really should try to understand what you bought and your rights as a licensee.

Well A and B are both true. Noel. When your software does not work because there is a glitch in the matrix and your shiiling out 80 a month and the guy in India 7k miles away cannot help. Rember that going to the cloud now and forfoing the right to vote with your walet or buy when you can is gone and you had soemthing you could have done.

Yes, you own the perpetual license to use the software for as long as you have a machine to run it on...by the way, the EULA (end user license agreement) says nothing about the right to upgrade the software to new versions and it expressly indicates the license is for a single OS platform. You really should try to understand what you bought and your rights as a licensee.

Correction; you own a license to the software. There's nothing perpetual about it. Just ask anyone with CS2 or before who can no longer activate their legally purchased product due to Adobe's activation servers crashing. Servers they have no intent of reactivating.

YES, they put up a version of CS2 that can be used instead, but my point is; they didn't have to. And kudos to Adobe for doing it, by the way. They could have very well just said "Oh well, too bad folks." and walked away from that seven-plus-year-old software. So again; OS version compatibility aside, there's nothing perpetual about a license to software that needs to be activated under any such scheme. Adobe's or anyone else's.

If there is nothing perpetual abou it then Adob e staff should not frame it as a such throughotut the years When pitching the software at trade shows and demos.

I can and have given credit to Adobe for what it has been and who it was. Where Adobe is heading now I cannot support the company. I would love to see them wake up sober up and turn the ship around

In one fail swoop they are trying to increase users and raise prices. They should pick one r the other this will not work out and I think they are staring to see it. If the cloud was so bitchen and cool they would take my 400 upgrade me to CS6 with a smile and then wait till I was ready and then have me on the cloud. N ow they just have me and others pissed off and keeping our money

I, for one, am looking forward in a way to just having PHOTOSHOP. No CS 6, 7, 8 or 88.

If you want Photoshop, you rent Photoshop.

If Adobe does away with perpetual licenses, they can do away with the scramble every 18 months to implement some new "killer feature" to entice previous users to drop a grand on an upgrade chock-full of new, poorly implemented features that break other things in Photoshop. And I bet the engineers would like a chance to fix the years-old pile of ignored bugs and performance issues instead of frantically scurrying around trouble-shooting the latest and greatest rushed to market "magical” command or filter. It was a model that could not be supported without producing the bloated cumbersome software that Photoshop is fast becoming.

Maybe one of the supporters of the cloud "rent" idea can address what happens when the computer you are using is the only one you can afford, for whatever reason(s), and it ceases to support the newest version of said rented Photoshop.

My main working machine (PPC Power Mac G5 Quad) only supports Photoshop up to CS4, and it serves all my needs admirably. I do have an Intel MacBook on which I run Photoshop CS6 just to be able to run ACR 7.4 on my G5's monitors; but that was a rescue from the trash at no cost to me, which is not a likely repeatable situation.

One shudders at the thought of the cost of antidepressant medications needed to combat the feeling of having to pay a monthly tribute to Adobe in perpetuity.

I don't know if that is necessarily the case. Adobe has no real competition. So their model has been, Make version A, then version B add "can't-live-without-killer-new-feature". Early in PS development, that may have been a good model, adding truly essential features like layers, adjustment layers, smart objects... But now, some 23 years later, that does not necessarily mean a better product, just a product different enough that users feel they have to shell out the big bucks to upgrade. No one is going to pay 1000 dollars to go from version A to version A.0.1 because it "works a lot better". Going to a non-perpetual license (and maybe I'm being irrationally optimistic here) could free up development to actually make Photoshop cleaner, faster, more productive and bug free than ever.

Maybe.

Take the new Crop Tool as an example. That really needed a few more months of development before being a touted as new "major feature". But now here it is in CS6... but do you think it is currently a priority for Adobe to fix its faults? Will Adobe promote upgrading to CS7 because "we've fixed all the problems with the Crop Tool"?

No! They'll be fixated on the "Un-Blur" Filter or some other "must have killer feature".. not necessarily on making the CS6 a better application.

Being a version-free cloud product, Adobe can promote Photoshop as a damn good, expansive and deep software that is constantly being upgrading so users would never even think about another editor.

Maybe one of the supporters of the cloud "rent" idea can address what happens when the computer you are using is the only one you can afford, for whatever reason(s), and it ceases to support the newest version of said rented Photoshop.

I'm not a "supporter" of the cloud, per se (recall I proposed buying BOTH perpetual license and cloud subscription, to get the best of both worlds; if you can do without the very latest, buy the perpetual license and be done with it).

It's an "if you want to play you have to pay" thing, which is not a "tight budget" kind of concept. It's what happens when Adobe's got the goods and we consumers want the goods.

Before you label me a snob, know this: I'm not wealthy, but I DO need Photoshop for my business, so it's a necessary business expense. One day it might not be so, and at that time I might choose to step off the train and continue using what I have licensed at that time.

I don't think there's anything about the cloud that compels you to upgrade. I believe a cloud license will entitle you to run whatever version(s) you have been running all along.

And I don't mean to pick nits, but an Intel Mac doesn't have to break the bank... At some point even the lowest of the current low-end models will outpace whatever ancient hardware you may have, and eBay always has deals.

Going to a non-perpetual license (and maybe I'm being irrationally optimistic here) could free up development to actually make Photoshop cleaner, faster, more productive and bug free than ever.

Noel wrote:

I believe it will.

I think that Adobe's decision to move to cloud services has little or nothing to do with development cycles. At least directly. I believe it is for normalizing the revenue stream. WallStreet really does like consistency versus localized jumps in revenue that occur when versioning changes.

As long as Adobe really doesn't do away with perpetual licenses, I could care less. I look at people using the cloud as beta testers ensuring those very few features and even fewer bug fixes that occur between versions have little impact on my version. And heck, these are beta testers that pay for the privilege of getting the first-hand bugs.

One they want you to upgrdae faster and two they dont want you to have a dicision to make. Then Add in your point of constant revenue streams. On the one hand I could really care les. on the other Adobe says one thing when you buy like youll be able to to upgrade forever then to push the cloud cancles upgrade. Since I was plannning to upgrade and to save up literally to build a new Machine i did not do it with in a certin window I guess i missed the window by a coulpe months!

Not understanding fully, Andrew. One can still currently upgrade perpetual licenses. Adobe hasn't yet announced doing away with them--at least I haven't seen such a statement.

Yes, upgrades will come faster. Yes, that costs some bucks. No, one cannot afford to skip versions as per the past. So yes, more money per year for the perpetual licensee.

I don't use PS that much--stopped upgrading it many versions back and use something else. My bite comes with ID and AI--and I only upgrade AI because of the odd job I need to return files in AI format (but I still do most of the work in something else, taking it into AI towards the end). So I'll keep paying for perpetual licenses as long as it lasts. I will not use the cloud unless all options for perpetual licences stop from every vendor.

Quick as I can make this is for video apps Adobe and Non Adobe the speed now comes from the Nvidia cuda cards. My machine is a Mac Apple refused to realese drivers for Nvidia. So I am going windows to have buying options. To do that I have had to save up now Adobe says no upgrade Sir just join the cloud. I have CS4 a one cycle back veresion. The standard with video pros is to skip versions or at least wait 6mo. Adobe has changed its stance on upgrade to Funnel you intot the cloud. in short Adobes polocy is punishing me becuse I was slow to buy. I was slow to buy because of Apples methods. Now know this Apple is the one pushing Adobe to this model. Notice as apple stock goes down Adobe goess up. The big hedge funds are moving money from one pig to the next. This is a time to vote with your dollars

Noop trust me I have talked to Apple about it sooo many times its sick.There is no card and supported driver for this MAcpro I am done with Apple, they dont play nice and the market is seeing that! . I am not done with adobe I just wish they could see the light

if you can find aalink to costomer support for Adobe in the US that wwould be awesome!

I still love Adobe products and that is why this hard push has relly botherd me. please take the time to read this and pass it on

Why is that the Adobe Staff is pushing so hard we all get on the cloud. Here ya go Swing over to Yahoo and see that The baord voted to reinstate the 2003 Equity Incentive plan.

Equity Incentive is stock options that incease the amount of shares to by 17.5 mil so at a 45 dollar a share price we are talking about 18x45 810 milion on stock. I think the employes should get paid well. For sure but as for the cloud it is a profit beast set up to get 2x or 3x more money out of you a year.

The plan with the cloud is to "Funnel" you into the free or promo price then the price goes up.

Adobe said its Creative Cloud exceeded 500,000 paid individual members and free and trial memberships exceeded 2 million, which the company said could lead to more paid membership.

The company said it added about 153,000 net paid subscriptions during the first quarter and that it expects to reach 1.25 million paid subscriptions by the end of this year.

A Win Win for everyone the share holders see high earnings the staff see some stock options. The only looser is you the consumer. Sorry Adobe be truthfull with us without us you do not thrive!

upon reading this and the confrence call I had an AHAAA moment as to Why they cloud is the only option from the mouth of anyone working at ADOBE

Do yourselves a favor get off the cloud let Adobe come back down to earth. Watch the stock drop. Then upgrade as normal next year if you do there will an Adobe to buy from in ten years if not they may go away. If you own the stock sell ASAP the insiders are!

With consumers it's about how much per month they can spare. In general, people don't think ahead, nor do they do math. A monthly lease that hides the true long-term cost AND helps lock people into future business is sheer genius.

Adobe has my sincere admiration. They've been able to both create valuable software people want for decades, and find new ways to market it in the modern connected world so as to maximize the money they make with it. Bravo, Adobe!

If Photoshop were to be sold or leased at a price you would like, a reasonable businessman would argue that it's set too low. You should feel some pain in paying for the things that have great value to you. Adobe in turn should get some of the profit they facilitate you making with their valuable products.

Perhaps you should try spending more time making money with Photoshop than wasting your time here ranting.

Do you even have a clue who Shantanu is? Yes, he's the CEO...but do you know him? Do you have any idea why he has exercised some of his options and sold some stock?

You may think your biz.yahoo links have some secret telltales, but you are trying to read tea leaves you clearly don't understand. And you clearly can't read the numbers, Shantanu has sold 355K shares this year (starting 01-01-2013), not 1 mil...yes, he's exercised some options…but he's only sold 355K this year and only sold $290K in 2012…so what? Maybe he's building a new house. What does this have to do with anything you are talking about?

You need a better understanding of corporate America to draw any conclusions regarding insider trading. Sorry, you are showing more ignorance than insight...

More important Jeff I know he cannot take that cash with him none of us can. But what you leave behind matters and right now Adobe is like a cheap pimp. A sleezy cheap company that all it wants is higher profits. its a greedy pig. I know that for most people Adobe is right there with enron, AIG, BP, Haliburton. Mansanto. it could care less about people and cares all about profits. And that any illusion that you or anyone has at this point is just that. An Illusion. So wake up join the real world put down the joint get off the cloud. If you cannot see and read that Adobe is all about inreased revenue then you are DUMB sorry but its true,. Maybe you are mineral deficent I dont know or care!. Look at anything they say on any site or report ita all about the cloud nothing about a better product or better value or added users or organic market growth. Jeff Schewe grow up/ wake up

If you cannot see and read that Adobe is all about inreased revenue then you are DUMB sorry but its true,. Maybe you are mineral deficent I dont know or care!. Look at anything they say on any site or report ita all about the cloud nothing about a better product or better value or added users or organic market growth. Jeff Schewe grow up/ wake up

Hum, do you know what a corporation is? Do you know who a corporation has a responsibility to? Maybe to it's shareholders? Is that a bad thing?

I'm wide awake and fully grown up. Thank you very much for caring...(not that I belive you care about much of anything).

Being a version-free cloud product, Adobe can promote Photoshop as a damn good, expansive and deep software that is constantly being upgrading so users would never even think about another editor.

This could also mean that CC subscribers will live with beta software forever. Quickly adding new features "on the fly" is a nice marketing argument but what about the QI process? With the previous model, beta testing was supposed to take place before the release of a new major version (although we could sometimes really doubt about this). Now I'd like to hear something about how regression testing will adapt to the new model...

Noel, I've read most of your BS responses. You are either the largest stockholder of Adobe or replacement CEO. Most of us here bought, supported and contributed to Adobe. Our support and buying of the product (or license as you lawyers say) was the reason was able to develop the product. And it is a fine payback we get. Well it's time for many of us who enjoy photography either as a hobby or a profession to start looking for alternatives and get our heads out of the cloud(s). No software company yet has been the "only one" out there. there will be someone else come along. Adobe did the same thing with Adobe Reader.This action by Adobe is a cheap, greedy, money grabbing way of the new world. Noel, stop being a company shill!