Well, if my ideas are correct, we have 21 days or 3 weeks left for the ENP theory to pass or fail.

It relates to counting back 1260 days from December 31 2013 when the seven year treaty ends. This falls on the 9th of AV or 20 July 2010. If you were to do this for many years it would not line up. Suspicious is it not?

Thoughts?

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

extravagantchristian wrote:How would we account for the sacrifices to be stopped when they haven't even started yet?

It does not seem to matter anymore whether there are sacrifices or not,in peoples eagerness to elasticate prophecy in order to make it fit into their pipe dreams.

This thread is for ENP watchers only and not for the bashing of it.

EC, the EU is trying to outlaw the Jewish kosher slaughter ritual. Don't say this is the stopping of sacrifice, but it is interesting that it happens before the midpoint. We will just have to watch and see.

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

So let me pose a question, WHAT IF IT FAILS? How then are we supposed to view prophetic text within scripture....nearly everything else is in place that scripture records as being a part of the "END-TIMES" so, shy of a divine epiphany I dont see any means of determining what is to come if what we see and know about the current situation is not correct.

extravagantchristian wrote:How would we account for the sacrifices to be stopped when they haven't even started yet?

It does not seem to matter anymore whether there are sacrifices or not,in peoples eagerness to elasticate prophecy in order to make it fit into their pipe dreams.

This thread is for ENP watchers only and not for the bashing of it.

EC, the EU is trying to outlaw the Jewish kosher slaughter ritual. Don't say this is the stopping of sacrifice, but it is interesting that it happens before the midpoint. We will just have to watch and see.

No one is going to tell the Israelis what to do,definitely not the EU.The EU can huff and puff as much as it likes over animal rights but no rabbi is going to take any notice of them! Why should they? Prophecy requires a TEMPLE,FULL SCALE SACRIFICES,taking place on the temple mount,and a larger than life character who dominates the world stage,ready to proclaim himself God,or am i missing something? People say that bad things happen on the 9th of Av, but there will be future 9th of Av's for things to go wrong,we just need to identify the right 9th of Av.Saying that if anything does happen on the 9th of Av,it will be the Ezekiel war,but as we know from scripture this is a glorious victory for Israel. Wickus you say that i am an ENP basher,well your right i have always thought that it was wrong,to many if's and but maybe's,im sorry if you dont like me to speak out my mind,but even Paul and Barnabas had difference of opinions,and Peter and Paul,so i'm in good company!

I really do not want to get into a "is the ENP right or wrong" debate. As the topic says, there are 21 (now 20) days left before we will know without a debate. Time is the only thing that can proof or disprove it. And you are entitled to your views. I just want to point out a few things.

No one is going to tell the Israelis what to do,definitely not the EU.The EU can huff and puff as much as it likes over animal rights but no rabbi is going to take any notice of them! Why should they?

I did not say that the possible stopping of kosher meat is the stopping of sacrifice. I said it is interesting that it happens now, and that before the midpoint. I agree that the rabbis will not take notice as the rabbis are not doing the slaughtering. Oh, and did you know that there are possibly the same amount of Jews in the EU eating kosher food than in Israel?

Prophecy requires a TEMPLE,FULL SCALE SACRIFICES,taking place on the temple mount,and a larger than life character who dominates the world stage,ready to proclaim himself God,or am i missing something?

There are many discussions on this board under Temple Watch were this is discussed. I am not going to discuss it here, as you can read it all on that thread. The point is that we maybe do not need a full scaled rebuilt temple with daily sacrifices to fulfill the prophecy. Again, there are opposing views. If they start to build the temple today, I will watch in very closely, but if there can be another way without a temple, I do not want to be caught off guard.

The second point, the Bible does not teach that the AC will proclaim himself God. He will exalt himself over God, but to wait for someone standing in the temple to shout "I AM GOD" may be a very long wait and can keep your attention away from what is really happening. The Beetles said that they are bigger than Jesus, so in a way they also proclaimed themselves to be God. Everyone exalting themselves above God is in a way proclaiming themselves to be God (No authority over them).

Wickus you say that i am an ENP basher,well your right i have always thought that it was wrong,to many if's and but maybe's,im sorry if you dont like me to speak out my mind,but even Paul and Barnabas had difference of opinions,and Peter and Paul,so i'm in good company!

You are welcome to speak your mind. You are welcome to voice your opinion. I just said that this area is an ENP ONLY area with no opposing views or bashing. The same as the "pre-trib view only". I can not bash in there and say to everyone they are wrong because I am pre-wrath. So please do not see my comment as an attack against you. There are other threads to discuss the ENP openly with different views.

Peace?

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

extravagantchristian wrote:How would we account for the sacrifices to be stopped when they haven't even started yet?

Thanks for posing this question extravangantchristian.....

Your question is the very reason why traditional teaching, and for those who are looking for "certain things", and/or "signs" to be in place; as traditional teaching has lead them to belive, just may be in error.

Now, let me qualify my statement: As Wickus has already identified, the ritual slaughtering of animals could very well fit the requirement of Daniel 9:27. Right now the EU is looking at banning what is called "Shechita" - which is the ritual slaughtering of animals. If this requirement is "ceased" by the EU enforcing this by rule set forth in the ENP(I) - then we have a match.

The reason why I believe that this could meet the requirement, is because Shechita is not just the slaughtering of animals - it is "religious" in nature; in that certain requirements must be met.

plalgum wrote:No one is going to tell the Israelis what to do,definitely not the EU.The EU can huff and puff as much as it likes over animal rights but no rabbi is going to take any notice of them! Why should they?

On the contrary, the Israelis will do what someone at some point will tell them to do - putting the ENP(I) aside for a moment; Scripture is quite clear that Jerusalem will be divided.

plalgum wrote:Prophecy requires a TEMPLE,FULL SCALE SACRIFICES,taking place on the temple mount,and a larger than life character who dominates the world stage,ready to proclaim himself God,or am i missing something?

I think that you may be missing a lot. Instead stating what is "required" by Scripture - with absolutely no support; then asking if you are missing something, why don't you provide your reasons for what you believe, supported by Scripture. Perhaps then you will have answered your own question.

I know that the aforementioned statement has nothing to to with the topic of this thread; however, since you are it's author, I just wanted to follow-up on what you have mentioned.

First I'd like to say that neither will I migrate to the Islam AC view - absolutely never. The very nature on which this view is originated from comes from an understanding that this so-called "Mahdi" will be the coming Messiah. Not even all the Islamic people are in agreement on this very false theory, nor can it be supported by the Quran - in which they vehemently follow. It's just amazing to me how so many that are looking for answers, and the truth, would turn to this, which doesn't even have a Christian foundation, and follow it if it had some sort or merit.

My question for those who are even looking in this direction would be: Since when did an Islamic view in itself become the source, and standard by which Christians are to look to?

In closing, even if the ENP(I) theory turns out to be wrong - the very least we can say is that those of us who have supported, and followed this theory were basing it solely on Scripture, and not some false religion -such as Islam.

Wikus, No reason to lose heart. God's word will be fulfilled and if it is not this 7 year covenant, there will be another. He is faithful and true and coming for us! He is also patient and long suffering, that more should come into His kingdom. Don't lose heart, friend, He is coming! When He does we will understand all things!

This article only further proves that the cessation of the way animals are slaughtered by "Shechita" - which is "religious" in nature may fit the requirement of Daniel 9:27. And ironically it's right in the "midst" of a confirmed 7 year Covenant with Many.

Mr Baldy, agreed. I do not think it pleases God if we study a false religion. I personally don't care what Islam believes. Their faith is build on lies. I don't think we will ever see a mahdi.

4givenmuch, don't worry, if the ENP turns out to be wrong, then life goes on. It will never interfere in my relationship with Jesus. I will never reconsider my faith in him, only my views on prophecy to see were I was wrong. And that I will do with my Lord.

He is coming soon!

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

This article only further proves that the cessation of the way animals are slaughtered by "Shechita" - which is "religious" in nature may fit the requirement of Daniel 9:27.

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. (Dan 9:27)

2 Timothy 2:24a..And the servant of the Lord must not strive ...The meaning is, that the servant of Christ should be a man of peace. He should not indulge in the feelings which commonly give rise to contention, and which commonly characterize it. He should not struggle for mere victory, even when endeavoring to maintain truth; but should do this, in all cases, with a kind spirit, and a mild temper; with entire candor; with nothing designed to provoke and irritate an adversary; and so that, whatever may be the result of the discussion, "the bond of peace" may, if possible, be preserved..

Hey Here is a thought, Since it looks like the ENP is wrong, ( and it is) and since knowing we ARE IN the Endtimes, Gee maybe the Rapture will be something next to watch for?? Well, maybe not next, 1st -Psalm83/Isaiah17 THEN maybe the rapture? HEy Better chance of that than the ENP...

mrgravyard49 wrote:Hey Here is a thought, Since it looks like the ENP is wrong, ( and it is) and since knowing we ARE IN the Endtimes, Gee maybe the Rapture will be something next to watch for?? Well, maybe not next, 1st -Psalm83/Isaiah17 THEN maybe the rapture? HEy Better chance of that than the ENP...

mrgravyard49 wrote:Hey Here is a thought, Since it looks like the ENP is wrong, ( and it is) and since knowing we ARE IN the Endtimes, Gee maybe the Rapture will be something next to watch for?? Well, maybe not next, 1st -Psalm83/Isaiah17 THEN maybe the rapture? HEy Better chance of that than the ENP...

Hey, here is a thought, since it looks like the pre-trib rapture is wrong, (and it is) and since knowing we ARE IN the Endtimes, Gee maybe the ENP will be something to next watch for??

Sorry, just my sarcastic side taking over. :-)

Faithful is the saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

There are a group of people here in this forum who have been considering another possibility,and its been doing the rounds for a while,some folk comment upon its possibilities others are fixed in what they consider to be the future and do not consider it an option! Some say "if the ENP is not it then i will not consider a Muslim AC.Why do you folk not consider the 1948 +70 possibility which gives us 2018 and then count back seven years which MAY give us the start date of tribulation in 2011.It all starts with the most titanic fulfillment of prophecy the rebirth of Israel!God says that if you bless Israel it will be a blessing unto you,and it's true!Those times when my faith is weak i look at the miracle of Israel and it's UNIQUE AS GOD SAID IT WOULD BE miracle of rebirth in the end times and my faith rushes back into me,what a blessing,Israel is, a beacon of PROOF.Somehow during 2011 it will start.I know that there are a few that agree with this simple possibility, but if July passes without incident,what else are you going to be looking out for.I don't have a fan club supporting my ideas on this forum,but I've been consistent with this proposition of the possible outcome for all the time I've been a member,it would be nice if someone comment upon this possible out come instead of being sidelined.GODBLESS.

plalgum wrote:Why do you folk not consider the 1948 +70 possibility which gives us 2018 and then count back seven years which MAY give us the start date of tribulation in 2011.

Actually plalgum, with everything that is going on, your theory certainly sounds plausible, and it makes sense. I'm definately going to keep 2018 in mind. I don't think that a 7 year tribulation can be supported by Scripture - however, I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a new 7 year agreement with many Nations, being made from some pre-existing covenant that we have today; such as the ENP(I) - perhaps it will be modified in 2011.

But for now, I'm just not ready to toss it to the side, although it seems to be a rap. We still have a few more days remaining.

Thank You Mr Gravyard,and Mr Baldy for your acknowledgements,I am merely a disciple in my thinking,my ideas are not original,but are part of a greater collective body of opinion!What i know myself don't add up to a hill of beans,but its what i feel I'm lead to,i cannot give details, all i can convey is a gut feeling 1048+70 =2018

Well, there was no sign of anything happening. Maybe we did miss something, but is what we're waiting for to happen, 'missable'?Anyway if this is not it, there's more time to do what we're supposed to here on earth.

Wickus wrote:There are many discussions on this board under Temple Watch were this is discussed. I am not going to discuss it here, as you can read it all on that thread. The point is that we maybe do not need a full scaled rebuilt temple with daily sacrifices to fulfill the prophecy. Again, there are opposing views. If they start to build the temple today, I will watch in very closely, but if there can be another way without a temple, I do not want to be caught off guard.

This article from 2007 shows just how determined some are/were to offer a sacrifice without a temple:

In Passover 1991, dedicated believers decided it was time for action, and tried to sacrifice a lamb in the premises. They were, however, quickly stopped by police.

One of the most daring plans to perform the religious ritual at the holy site belongs to the ultra right-wing religious movement Kach. Some 20 years ago, its members worked out an plan to infiltrate the Western Wall Plaza at dusk with a lamb and foldable alter. The plan never materialized, partly owing to the fact that Passover that year coincided with the Muslim holiday of Ramadan.

Earlier and bolder still was the plan of the Temple Mount Movement to hire a helicopter pilot to parachute a ready-made alter onto the Western Wall Plaza. There, it would serve a group of followers on the ground, sacrificial lamb in hand. As in previous cases, the plan never quite took off the ground.

The 2 Witnesses causing fire from the sky? I only see the Beast from the earth doing that as in scripture I found here, unless I am missing something...:)

The Two Witnesses 1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood,[a] saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, [b]fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

The Beast from the Earth

11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. 12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. 13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.