So, who goes?

First and foremost, we have to figure out consistently and how to win long-term. I guess I referred to it earlier today as being a Seven Eleven. Good enough to maybe be in the 7th or 8th spot and maybe make the playoffs, but never good enough to win.

I do like the fact that we’re going to have a GM with a fresh view of the world, with a fresh view of the world, with a fresh view of this roster, with a fresh view of what it is we need to do to be competitive long-term.

I have a bit of a disagreement on the current status of the organization and this roster. I guess I don’t think we’re right there. I don’t think we’re a piece away, I think we have work to do. I think in the last five years we’ve made mistakes. We’re a team knocking on the luxury tax that has zero draft picks this year, and we have to improve on this roster but we don’t have a lot of resources to do it. I find it ironic that people think that that, at the end of the day, would give me a high degree of comfort. That said, Bryan has a different opinion and I respect that opinion, but somebody had to make a decision and someone did.

We got to find somebody that is extremely good and rational at looking at this roster and reaching the right conclusions about who’s going to work and who’s not going to work. Sometimes you got to find a new set of eyes and a new opinion in order to judge a roster and not be personal about a player because you chose him. Or you used the first pick in the first round to pick a player. Sometimes it’s easier for a guy coming in that doesn’t have that loyalty, and doesn’t have the burden of being the guy that made that decision, you reach better conclusion at times on how needs to stay and who needs to go.

We want someone that is not afraid of making trades, we want someone that is not burderend by ultimately saying, ‘God, I feel bad about making this move because I brought this guy into the organization’.

There has been a lot of talk in these forums about the "core" of Lowry-DeRozan-Gay-Amir-JV moving forward. It seems pretty clear that the status quo is not going to remain for whoever comes in to take control of this franchise from a basketball operation/decision-making perspective based on the comments of the ultimate boss.

With that said:

Who goes and, if you are really adventurous or just have time on your hands, why?

**In the poll, only included guys under contract for next season minus Kleiza and it is multiple choice!**

I would sorta roll the dice with a restructer like Ujiri and keep just Lowry and JV at the outset with everyone else on the table for a cull and trade. Some because they need to go, others because they have some value and the remaining expendable in the makeover and hope the return is not just more lipstick. Do we have any choice but have hope.

btw...TL's assesment of the team is spot on. Phil Jackson gave him good advice

I would sorta roll the dice with a restructer like Ujiri and keep just Lowry and JV at the outset with everyone else on the table for a cull and trade. Some because they need to go, others because they have some value and the remaining expendable in the makeover and hope the return is not just more lipstick. Do we have any choice but have hope.

btw...TL's assesment of the team is spot on. Phil Jackson gave him good advice

I don't think there's a question Andrea goes this summer...it's been said a million times before, but his time as a Raptor is up. Letting go of him ushers in a new era, in the sense that we no longer have our underachieving #1 pick hovering around.

I didn't think there was any chance of DeMar leaving before BC was let go as GM. Now under the huge contract, I didn't think Colangelo had the balls to trade him so early into a massive deal, especially because his decision-making would come even more under the microscope. But with BC out, and the possibility of Ujiri coming in, I think he's more likely to go.

As for the core that i mentioned. I could see Ross or/and Lowry getting traded.

As for the people that want to trade DeRozan. In my opinion, you gotta give Gay/DeRozan combo a chance to show what they got in a full season. Not the biggest DD fan but DD and Gay seems to developed some kind of a chemistry the last month of the season. Top 3 scoring duo in the league i believe. Also, THINK. Who's going to replace DeRozan if he gets traded? Ross? lol. or even worst Fields? LOL. *shakes head*

As for the core that i mentioned. I could see Ross or/and Lowry getting traded.

As for the people that want to trade DeRozan. In my opinion, you gotta give Gay/DeRozan combo a chance to show what they got in a full season. Not the biggest DD fan but DD and Gay seems to developed some kind of a chemistry the last month of the season. Top 3 scoring duo in the league i believe. Also, THINK. Who's going to replace DeRozan if he gets traded? Ross? lol. or even worst Fields? LOL. *shakes head*

Both of them can make for DD. With DD gone KLow can take more of an offensive role. The defence would be better as well.

Bargs and Gray. We have a lot of players who fit together, guys like Lowry, Derozan, Ross, Amir, JV, and even Fields all like to run and fly. I think they should just rid the roster of the Kleiza's, Pietrus's, Anderson's (Bargs and Gray) and pick up on some free agents. Strengthen the bench this off season and see what happens. Our starting line-up is not the problem, except for maybe the lack of a better power-forward (no disrespect to Amir, I love his game, but I'd love it even more if he were coming off the bench).

As for the core that i mentioned. I could see Ross or/and Lowry getting traded.

As for the people that want to trade DeRozan. In my opinion, you gotta give Gay/DeRozan combo a chance to show what they got in a full season. Not the biggest DD fan but DD and Gay seems to developed some kind of a chemistry the last month of the season. Top 3 scoring duo in the league i believe. Also, THINK. Who's going to replace DeRozan if he gets traded? Ross? lol. or even worst Fields? LOL. *shakes head*

The core of the team you are describing is pretty much the same team that we were trotting out there this season. The same team Tim L., thinks isn't good enough to compete. I think he is looking to make some pretty major changes to the roster and I'm looking forward to it.

I'd like to see first if we start adopting a different strategy, especially on offense.

The iso's (including the idea that this is actually a good strategy) and volumeshooting on (long) twopointers has to stop, there has got to be a system installed instead of this (self-proclaimed by Casey) "random offense". If that happens, I'd like to see what happens with Gay and DeRozan in a good offensive system. Do they adapt or not.

Obviously, when re-signed, Gay should be paid less, something like 12/13 mil. at most. Not sure if he accepts that or if some other team offers more. If he gets more money, he should be significantly more efficient and more consistent on defense.

Fields needs to shoot better or he should go (if possible). He doesn't have enough Tony Allen in him to justify his lack of offense (he should start cutting all the time though when defenses leave him open).

If, before the season, they can get a good deal on Gay, Fields or DeRozan, I would be ok with them leaving; what they brought last season isn't what you need for a good team (in relation to their salary).

As for the core that i mentioned. I could see Ross or/and Lowry getting traded.

As for the people that want to trade DeRozan. In my opinion, you gotta give Gay/DeRozan combo a chance to show what they got in a full season. Not the biggest DD fan but DD and Gay seems to developed some kind of a chemistry the last month of the season. Top 3 scoring duo in the league i believe. Also, THINK. Who's going to replace DeRozan if he gets traded? Ross? lol. or even worst Fields? LOL. *shakes head*

This is a conversation that has been had numerous times. I don't really want to get in to it again other than to say sometimes your most talented 5 is not your best 5.

More importantly though is looking at the core you laid out: JV, Gay, DD, Amir, Lowry, Ross. That is essentially the team that Leiweke has said is not good enough because, lets face it, everyone knows Bargnani is leaving one way or another and is no longer considered core.

When looking at that core, who is tradeable?

No to JV because he is the franchise building block at this point.
No to Amir because you'll never get fair value in return and Raptors are already thin at PF/C.

That leaves Gay, DD, Lowry and Ross.

Doubtful for Gay because he is the most talented player on the team and his contract is an albatross.
Doubtful for Lowry because he is one of the only Raptors not on a rookie deal that could be considered a value - oh, and they don't have a PG.

That leaves Ross and DD.

Doubtful for Ross because his potential is in the areas Toronto lacks: 3 and D. He is also on a rookie deal and is unlikely to fetch fair value in return.

I'm having trouble voting on this. I don't think we'll see a flurry of changes. I'd be surprised at least. If the new GM just starts dumping players as fast as possible, I'm not optimistic about the return coming back.

Obviously, Bargnani is gone as soon as possible. This is the one trade that has to happen. A new home for Bargs, hopefully at least one useful piece. I'd be pretty upset if he's on the roster to start next season.

After that, I don't know if anything gets done this summer, but I think nobody is safe, except for JV, for the next season or two. I think that Amir and Ross are pretty safe, and are only thrown into trades if they have to be to get deals done. Lowry and DeMar are least safe. Lowry has his cheap expiring deal. DeMar has solid value to attract a big piece if one becomes available. Gay is a pretty big wildcard because even with his contract, he's presently the best player on the team and may generate some interest. Gray and Acy could easily be filler. I think Fields is pretty safe, because who the fuck wants his contract?...he'd have to bounce back at the start of next season and play out of his mind.

reading leiw's words, the first glance would point at bargnani but demar fits everything he is talking about to a t. would be sad to see him go. That's why the new guy will do it. He won't be sad like me

When Lieweke says this team isn't good enough, he's speaking about every person on the roster. Not simply Lowry, DD, Gay, Amir, JV and Ross. There are 9 other guys on the roster which aren't doing jack for the team.

You guys asked who goes so this is my opinion. You can't tell us we aren't allowed to vote for keeping our core group lol I just think those group of guys need a better surrounding cast. Scrap the entire bench with the exception of Ross and maybe Landry and acquire a back up PG, a veteran wing player (hopefully a dead-eye three shooter), and I'm up for suggestion to fill the rest of the roster but it won't be Pietrus, Kleiza Bargs, Anderson or Gray.

When Lieweke says this team isn't good enough, he's speaking about every person on the roster. Not simply Lowry, DD, Gay, Amir, JV and Ross. There are 9 other guys on the roster which aren't doing jack for the team.

You guys asked who goes so this is my opinion. You can't tell us we aren't allowed to vote for keeping our core group lol I just think those group of guys need a better surrounding cast. Scrap the entire bench with the exception of Ross and maybe Landry and acquire a back up PG, a veteran wing player (hopefully a dead-eye three shooter), and I'm up for suggestion to fill the rest of the roster but it won't be Pietrus, Kleiza Bargs, Anderson or Gray.

I don't care whether Lucas stays or not.

Who is telling you who to vote for?

The fact is the man in charge wants change. He has made it pretty clear he does not think this team is a piece away from contention. He has also made it pretty clear he wants to be more than a 7/11. Guys like Aaron Gray or John Lucas don't make enough money or play a big enough role to matter and they don't have enough value to return anything of substance to make a difference in the team's fortunes. Guys like Bargnani, Kleiza, and Fields are on bad contracts.

By keeping the current core of players as you suggest, here are the methods Toronto has to make the changes/improvements you suggest:

You said "This is a conversation that has been had numerous times. I don't really want to get in to it again other than to say sometimes your most talented 5 is not your best 5." in response to TRex's comment lol that's basically saying "If this is what you think, don't even mention it."

You said "This is a conversation that has been had numerous times. I don't really want to get in to it again other than to say sometimes your most talented 5 is not your best 5." in response to TRex's comment lol that's basically saying "If this is what you think, don't even mention it."

the topics of who is better between DD,LF,TR is different than the topic of who goes based on new boss comments. there are numerous threads and I'd bet 100 posts on the former.