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Topic: What Now? (Read 6646 times)

For anyone that was formerly a Christian; when you lost believe that the faith you held was the truth; what was the next step? As Christians, I'm sure you were taught the following:

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You see, if the dead aren't going to be raised, the Anointed One hasn't been raised! And if the Anointed One hasn't been raised, our faith is useless… we're still sinners, and all those who fell asleep in the Anointed One are just gone! And if we've put our hope in the Anointed One for this life only, then we're the most pitiful of all men.

as well as:

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'All is foolishness and waste,' said he, the great congregator. 'Foolishness and waste… all that's done is in vain. What value is all a man gains from his trouble, for which he's worked hard under the sun?'A generation goes and a generation comes, but the earth keeps standing through the age. The sun keeps rising and setting, as it withdraws to it's place. 6 The wind comes from the south, and it moves north in its circle, then it goes back and comes 'round again.All the streams flow to the sea, but the sea is never filled up. Then to the places from which they came, they all return and flow back again. So a man can't speak all his weary words, his eyes can't be filled with all to be seen, and his ears can't be filled with all to be heard.What is this thing that [just] happened? The same thing will happen again! What is this thing being done? The same will be done in the future, for there's nothing that's new under the sun.

With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless. I'm interested in knowing how former Christians have dealt with these issues and been able to find a point to it all after ditching a belief system that served to make life ultimately purposeful and held up the human ego in a way that really nothing else can.

I was a former Christian, although I did not believe everything that Christians believed. At the least, if there is a God, that God's actions would not be justifyable.

There were alot of things about religious beliefs that I questioned, like how are we all sinners when it was Adam and Eve that sinned, not us? We are apparently born with original sin but why is that? This is why I changed my beliefs.

What now? I want to live my own life like anyone else and be a good person, even there is no 'God' I still would rather be good than evil. I'm gonna go into business.

« Last Edit: September 26, 2011, 10:56:48 AM by Samuelxcs »

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"The stupid neither forgive nor forget; the naïve forgive and forget; the wise forgive but do not forget."-Thomas Szasz

Well, when I lost my faith is was because I read the bible and the realization that as a teenage I had better morals and a greater understanding of the Earth than God. I hated everyone, and everything and I just wanted to die. I joined the military and intentionally put myself in harms way because I could not go through with actually comitting suicide... but to die for something... it made it easier. But I was Denied. I never got "lucky" as it were.

Even though I wasn't a church going Christian, I still believed in something. I thought that deep down I only "misread" it. Still lived my life according to the christian creed except I didn't go to church except every once in awhile. There is a verse in the OT that if the church you're attending condones sin then everyone who attends that church is guilty of that sin. If you cannot excommunicate the offender, you are to leave it yourself, so I did.

A long time passed before I realized god is imaginary, then I finally moved on.

So what do I live for now? There's so much I still want to do. This is my only life, I'm not auditioning for a "real life." What will it mean when I die if I am able to accomplish everything or not? Nothing. Does this matter? No, because even though life has it's downs, it also has it's ups. I live because I am.

I new there was something wrong with the bible at a young age when they talked about how people that were blind and people with mental disorders were charicterized by haveing demons and such or when i ask tryieed to talk to GoD but i never heard him say anything back.

I find that teaching my kids good morals so that they may pass them on to other and learning different things is rewarding enough

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When fascism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.”--- Sinclair Lewis

I believe there is something out there watching over us. Unfortunately, it's the government.

Ex-Christian here. My deconversion was a long process. If I had to label it, it basically went from gnostic Christian -> agnostic Christiant -> deist -> panentheist -> pantheist -> agnostic atheist.

It wasn't easy, that's for sure. When I came to the conclusion the ancient, illogical Yahweh didn't exist, those thoughts you mentioned did cross my mind. My desire to extend my life made it hard to completely let go of thoughts of the supernatural. My mortality was rough to deal with and I did find it depressing. No God meant no biblical happy place and afterlife.

At each step in my deconversion I altered my beliefs to be more in line with evidence and reality, but kept my consciousness alive.

While I was a deist I thought up a god that highly approved of moral actions, and looked down on immorality. So long as a person lived a good life he or should would be rewarded. In the end though I concluded that nothing can be known about a deistic god that didn't personally involve itself in human affairs, and that I was projecting my desire for goodness onto my version of god (SPAG).

The panenthistic god still approved and disapproved of things that were in line with my beliefs. Luck me, huh?

While I dabbled in pantheism I thought that in the end my consciousness would be connected to a greater consciousness. This was simply another way to avoid my fate as a biological creature. It was completely baseless and powered by my own desire and hope.

As an atheist I've let go of this need for immortality. I realize the supernatural doesn't exist and I only have one shot at life, but that doesn't make existence meaningless. I give my own life meaning. We're all stuck on this blue orb together so I'll do my best to make it an enjoyable place for the people I'm here with.

I'm incredibly luck to experience life, and even more lucky I'm able to recognize my own existence. I refuse to waste it being depressed.

With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless. I'm interested in knowing how former Christians have dealt with these issues and been able to find a point to it all after ditching a belief system that served to make life ultimately purposeful and held up the human ego in a way that really nothing else can.

It's only depresssing if you're focused on death. Instead of that, concern yourself with your life now. Now is the only time we have to enjoy life and everything it has to offer, so take it while it lasts.

Also, life has no "inherent purpose". You have to give purpose to your own life.

Zankuu, I may be walking in an old pair of your shoes. I find the idea of ME being an unnecessary and ultimately irrelevant part of the grand circle of life depressive and more than humbling. Religion's greatest aspect IMO is that it makes man the promise that he ultimately means something and has enduring value. In a way it deifies man as much as it does any God-figure.

---On another note, I can honestly say that if I was not so involved and committed to the biblical faith for over 25 years of my life, I would have done many things differently. My biggest dream was to be a father and husband. Anything in addition was just gravy. Years ago my dream was realized and as my kids got older, I found that my life had less and less meaning the more independent they got, being that my life sort of revolved around my family. An unspoken message that I gleaned from my church days was that nothing in life could ever totally satisfy a person, but that was okay because in the world to come........ That message hit home with me. So here I am, middle aged, still feeling unsatified, but now the idea that there is quite possibly no "world to come" to make it all worthwhile. Had I felt this way as a young man, I likely woulda tried to be Hugh Heffner, George Soros, or been someone that chased after fame like an actor or politician.

With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless. I'm interested in knowing how former Christians have dealt with these issues and been able to find a point to it all after ditching a belief system that served to make life ultimately purposeful and held up the human ego in a way that really nothing else can.

Not much to those “thoughts” is there since there is no evidence that any of their claims come true?

This is the best you seem to have.. oh please please atheists believe my utterly baseless claims that my version of my religion is the bestest and the onliest one. Sorry, TOT< but no, I don’t buy into claims of how great Christainity is if there is no evidence to support that *any* of its claims are true. If this is what you have, I’m expecting solipsism next since this plea always fails rather dramatically. It’s also amusing as heck for you to be so vain about your particular religion. “Like nothing else can”…. I’m sure we can find some Muslims, Hindus, Wicca who can say the exact same thing with just as much evidence.

All your supposed “thoughts” do are try to ignore reality. And reality isn’t depressing for me. It might be depressing for you in that it makes you realize that your greed and fear aren’t going to be ameliorated by some bogeyman.

As others have said, I make my own worth in life. I don’t need some magical being to do it for me. And I certainly don’t see that there is any great purpose of life described by your religion. If we are to believe the nonsense of the bible, all humans are meant to do is worship your bogeyman. That’s it. Nothing more. No science, no art, no caring for each other, just endless praising of a being that is demonstrated as no more than a petty brat. My meaning in life is the love I get from my husband, and others and the satisfaction I get from doing a good job and fixing problems.

And held up the human ego? Only depending on what “interpretation” the believer uses. It says repeatedly that the human being is worthless, is evil, etc. But oh, it does make certain people feel all special that some imaginary omnipotent omniscient being is there for them and only them through that “chosen people” garbage.

Now, TOT, what meaning do you have in your life? IS it only to worship this deity as it requires per its magic book? Because that’s all it wants or finds important. With your playing Pascal’s wager, you seem to be playing with fire since unless this is all you are doing, you aren’t doing what the bible says will get you into this magical afterlife.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

Now, TOT, what meaning do you have in your life? IS it only to worship this deity as it requires per its magic book? Because that’s all it wants or finds important. With your playing Pascal’s wager, you seem to be playing with fire since unless this is all you are doing, you aren’t doing what the bible says will get you into this magical afterlife.

Once again, you have gone off on a rant that seems rather assumptive and motivated by a misunderstanding that LIKELY arose from reading something into what was posted as opposed to simply replying to what was written. Get out of attack mode and chill, and try seeing the forest as opposed to just trees.And I thought I had issues..................

Zankuu, I may be walking in an old pair of your shoes. I find the idea of ME being an unnecessary and ultimately irrelevant part of the grand circle of life depressive and more than humbling. Religion's greatest aspect IMO is that it makes man the promise that he ultimately means something and has enduring value. In a way it deifies man as much as it does any God-figure.

Yeah, I think you got why religion is hard to let go of. It makes man, and you by extention, important. Just because it is appeal, does not mean it is true.

You and your life has no cosmic meaning, no more than a block of clay. However just like a sculptor, you can give it meaning to yourself and to others, even if ultimately, it is still just clay.

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An Omnipowerful God needed to sacrifice himself to himself (but only for a long weekend) in order to avert his own wrath against his own creations who he made in a manner knowing that they weren't going to live up to his standards.

Zankuu, I may be walking in an old pair of your shoes. I find the idea of ME being an unnecessary and ultimately irrelevant part of the grand circle of life depressive and more than humbling. Religion's greatest aspect IMO is that it makes man the promise that he ultimately means something and has enduring value. In a way it deifies man as much as it does any God-figure.

I agree on both counts. It really is humbling. From thinking I was God's [chosen] special creation with a soul given dominion over all beings to realizing I was just a normal living, breathing self aware ape of the Hominidae family made me reflect on existence. I would wager if octopodes were self aware and had a creation story, their deity wouldn't be cuttlefish.

"And so, from the Great Reef, the Lord created us in His eight tentacled glory!" -Octal 4:23

For anyone that was formerly a Christian; when you lost believe that the faith you held was the truth; what was the next step?

TOT, as one of the newer ex-Christians here, I have to admit that it is initially super-depressing after deconversion because you do not feel special and chosen any longer. Not only that, but instead of having an automatic purpose (being God's servant/child) and knowing you'll live forever in supposed bliss with the creator of the universe (who supposedly loves you like crazy, and whom you think you love like crazy), you have to experience a crash-course in figuring out your own purpose.

However, after the emotional pain, insomnia and terror of being completely mortal leveled off a bit, I realized how glad I was that I was no longer basing the actions of my life on a myth. It was great to know the truth and be liberated from former prejudices against atheists, gays, people who taught that creationism was wrong, etc that were instilled in me from reading the Bible. And yes, I have to point out how ironic it is that Jesus claims he is "the Truth". I am glad that I am no longer living a lie. Now that I look back, I'm pretty mortified at how I thought about things.

With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless. I'm interested in knowing how former Christians have dealt with these issues and been able to find a point to it all after ditching a belief system that served to make life ultimately purposeful and held up the human ego in a way that really nothing else can.

It is better to go through that process of depression rather than holding on to irrational beliefs. I couldn't run from reality forever, because my rational mind recognized that so many aspects of Christianity just did not make sense, and no one could rectify that. I have learned so much just in the past month that I can't believe it. Please don't feel like Christianity is the only thing that can make life ultimately purposeful. You make your life purposeful.

I'm interested in knowing how former Christians have dealt with these issues and been able to find a point to it all after ditching a belief system that served to make life ultimately purposeful and held up the human ego in a way that really nothing else can.

So you're wondering how people who do not believe in a silly fairy tale deal with emotional dependencies only related to actually believing the silly fairy tale as if it were true?

Value is not defined by belief in random superstition, it should be immediately obvious. If you're no longer indoctrinated then you are no longer indoctrinated, its meaningless to ask how I feel about what was meaningless to begin with and there is no need to replace the indoctrination.

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless.

Yeah, it's actually not depressing. It's actually quite a relief not second guessing every action and always looking over one's shoulder for a god's approval. It makes the consequences of your actions that much more real, since they're not part of some god's worthiness testing simulation.

In dealing with the apologetics, it just takes realizing that these suppositions are just suppositions that don't rely on any reality, only threats.

Supposing one is pitiful for disbelieving a religion still does nothing to validate the religion.

Saying it's foolish to disagree with your religion is the same style of empty supposition.

Claiming nothing matters outside of your religion is as futile and depressing of an outlook one can take. Where would we be if not for the things that people thought important to question and learn about and build before their short existence was over?

At one season finale of Angel he has the idea to use a magic ring he stole from a demon to enter Hell with a battle axe and see if he can rush the Devil and kill evil once and for all. He finds an elevator to hell on the side of a building and as the doors close he sees a crazy bag lady losing her temper at someone. The hellish elevator operator takes him down, down and we see a red glow at the seams of the elevator. The elevator operator explains that they don't want to win the Apocalypse, they just want to ruin things for humans because our civilization makes things too nice and we don't have to fight dog-eat-dog. The doors open and it is as before: the bag lady cursing. The operator explains that Hell is not the source of evil; we are. We energize the demons. Angel leaves depressed that there is no real battle between Good and Evil because there is no victory to be had.

In the next episode is Angel's conclusion on his experience:

Angel: Well, I guess I kinda worked it out. If there's no great glorious end to all this, if nothing we do matters... , then all that matters is what we do. 'Cause that's all there is. What we do. Now. Today. I fought for so long, for redemption, for a reward, and finally just to beat the other guy, but I never got it.Kate Lockley: And now you do?Angel: Not all of it. All I wanna do is help. I wanna help because, I don't think people should suffer as they do. Because, if there's no bigger meaning, then the smallest act of kindness is the greatest thing in the world.

In another part of the episode he expresses it as "If nothing we do matters, then the only thing that matters is everything we do."

Your questions boil down to personal perspective I guess. How did I deal with the dawning knowledge that there is no "Heaven"? meh...I read the book of Revelations and did not particularly like John's description of heaven.

As a young child I had no concept of death or an afterlife...no problems

As a teen I did not fear death because I was "Saved"...no problems

As a young adult I shook off most of the indoctrination but still believed in some sort of "Universal consciousness" as God, death?...still no problems

As an agnostic pan-deist death is just a part of the cycle so...meh. I hold no frilly thoughts that "I" will continue in any physical or metaphysical way after my body dies and since there is no hell death is not a problem.

Since...at no point in my life, have I ever feared death, it leads me to conclude that no matter what I happen to think about the nature of reality...death just isn't an issue for me. Has never been a motivating or demotivating factor. My primary goal in life from an early age was to be a grandfather...I have a wife and three daughters so my chances of achieving that particular goal is looking pretty good. Now...I ask you, why was your main goal to be a husband and father? My initial reason for wanting to be a grand father was a result of my grand fathers. They were fickin awesome. Now my dream is to create a strong and powerful family, the likes of which governments don't fuck with.

I don't know exactly how to go about doing this but I do know that it doesn't happen by teaching my children to bow down before authority. So, I have a goal

I think your main issue is the fear of the unknown. Don't feel bad tho, it's a problem for many many people.

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When I criticize political parties or candidates, I am not criticizing you. If I criticize you, there will be no doubt in your mind as to what I am saying.

It's actually quite simple. One can wallow in depression, or one can get off their ass and become a human being, with all it's faults and irrationalities. Cold turkey doesn't get enough credit if you ask me!

Maybe religion is nothing more than an addiction to God? And when an intervention comes along, like WWGHA, maybe some people finally get the idea that it is time to cut off the woo, and get on with their lives. I'd like to think that all I needed was permission to be an atheist, which was present all along. It was fear alone that kept me from doing so, many years ago, and while I don't lose sleep over the lost time as an outspoken atheist, I do wish I had been stronger for a lot longer.

Anyway, you have friends here, and you can be a secret atheist for awhile if you want!

That is what the thread is really about, isn't it? You becoming an atheist?

My story is one I would describe as having a "conversation" on the telephone when all of the sudden I began to question the existence of someone on the other end. Then I made excuses for the other's lack of speech. Then I got embarrassed that I had been talking to myself all along. Then I got angry at the christians that claimed their phone calls were all two way and clear. Finally I got smarter and searched for the truth, and found atheism.

I never got angry at god, I got angry at the christian con men who I know didn't really talk to god any more than I had, but they would lie like there's no tomorrow. Then I almost made it a hobby to listen to christians try to out lie one another about their relationships with god. It's so pitiful.

How many ex-christians will admit to the daily lies about how god was leading you or told you something, or embellished stories to make them sound more sunday school lesson like?

My loss of faith was a very gradual process; it took awhile to even realize what was happening. Once I did, it was a sobering, somewhat depressing place to come to. No afterlife, no justice for all the hideous cruelty of human history, no ultimately satisfactory answers to every question, no meeting my beloved dead...

But I soon realized that all the positive aspects of my life were still there: friends and family that loved me, the dignity and satisfaction of work, the pleasure I felt surfing, stroking a cat or listening to a favorite piece of music. Indeed, all those things had added value now, since I had a limited time to enjoy them.

I also no longer needed to give credit to my accomplishments to anyone but myself. And if heaven was a myth, so was hell and eternal punishment. That last was a particularly liberating realization.

I've never been a Christian per se, so I won't begin to tell you how to deal with a loss of faith. I will, however, predict the future for you, Truth OT.

Within a few months, the last vestiges of your religion will fall by the wayside. The initial pain of your deconversion will take some time to deal with, but your desire to know more about the world will increase exponentially. You will study science stuff like crazy and that will fill the time void left by your God belief. You will begin to read atheism books regularly, and you will find the arguments so compelling that you will wonder how you ever believed the bible held anything truthful in the first place.

For a time, you'll regret the years you wasted on religion, but strangely enough, your thirst for knowledge will make you want to know even more about it! Soon after, you will start to see just how much God is ingrained in the vernacular of the people and places around you, and it will start to annoy you... slowly at first. Then, you will start to see some awful Christian stories on the news, and in the papers, and on the internet and you will really get angry. You will start to think of all Christians (when it comes to their religion) as deluded and you will find yourself shaking your head at every single argument they bring to the table. Every. Single. One.

With the religious knowledge you have, and the way you express yourself, you might start debating Christians and beating them handily at their own game. In a few years, you might write a book about your deconversion story, which will not make the best seller list, but will appear on the bookshelves in your local Barns & Noble. At some time down the road, you'll be an old man and you will look back to see that life was better... way, way better, without your religion.

With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless. I'm interested in knowing how former Christians have dealt with these issues and been able to find a point to it all after ditching a belief system that served to make life ultimately purposeful and held up the human ego in a way that really nothing else can.

The only thing I can come up with, is that it's actually our consciousness that gives us this sense of "I EXIST : I AM TERRIBLY IMPORTANT", so it's very hard to satisfy it that there is something meaningful enough to reward it. Ultimately, heaven is just more of the same continual gratification, which would then require another reward cycle.

With that in mind, our consciousness, which is derived from neural activity, causes a meaning in itself. It might quite possibly be totally self-deceiving, or it could point to the fact that anything in the universe that is greater than us can [also] only have meaning in itself, rather than an absolute meaning that makes it all absolutely meaningful. If God existed, there would be no way for his meaning to rub off on us, and save us from meaninglessness.

If I had to take a punt on what the point of the universe was, I would tend to go with Buddhist thinking, and say that the point was to exterminate itself. Just consider that the universe is a mathematical pattern that keeps on popping up, very annoyingly, like a weed infestation. If I were a God, I'd be looking for a way to get rid of it. If we were to ask God, what meaning was, he'd say, "Help me get rid of this friggin thing." You would reply, "But I want to live forever". God would reply, "WHAT? YOU FUCKIN CRAZY."

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When you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be bleedn obvious.

As a Haida I have seen what it has done to the people of my nation,some seem to be stuck between the world they knew and the world the church taught them. It was mostly the United Church. Others have been long dead by abuse,suicide and alcohol.......I have never been one of your church,so I am afraid I am no help at all

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There's no right there's no wrong,there's just popular opinion (Brad Pitt as Jeffery Goines in 12 monkeys)

Now, TOT, what meaning do you have in your life? IS it only to worship this deity as it requires per its magic book? Because that’s all it wants or finds important. With your playing Pascal’s wager, you seem to be playing with fire since unless this is all you are doing, you aren’t doing what the bible says will get you into this magical afterlife.

Once again, you have gone off on a rant that seems rather assumptive and motivated by a misunderstanding that LIKELY arose from reading something into what was posted as opposed to simply replying to what was written. Get out of attack mode and chill, and try seeing the forest as opposed to just trees.And I thought I had issues..................

nice baseless accusations as usual, TOT. So, please do show how I assumed anything incorrectly. You make baseless claim after baseless claim about your religion and about how life is "meaningless" without your belief in a god.

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"There is no use in arguing with a man who can multiply anything by the square root of minus 1" - Pirates of Venus, ERB

I found that as a Christian I was a liar 24/7. Though I haven't been a Christian in more than 20 years, I last told a lie[1]12 years ago. Though, being a non-liar makes me come off as an asshole most of the time, I am less stressed, more apt, and aware of my surroundings then when I was a Christian, and therefore a liar.

velks, FWIW I was also a little confused as to why you aggressively sunk your fangs in ToT here. I thought it was an honest question about how ex-Christians dealt with their deconversion process and overcame the initial sulking stage. Seemed devoid of an ulterior motive to me. *shrug*

velks, FWIW I was also a little confused as to why you aggressively sunk your fangs in ToT here. I thought it was an honest question about how ex-Christians dealt with their deconversion process and overcame the initial sulking stage. Seemed devoid of an ulterior motive to me. *shrug*

TOT is projecting his indoctrination on those who are no longer indoctrinated, as if they need to account emotionally for believing in what they don't believe. Plus, TOT has a history of dishonest behavior that has earned him a negative stereotype. Are we supposed to pretend like TOT is trying to be reasonable now?

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me

TOT is projecting his indoctrination on those who are no longer indoctrinated, as if they need to account emotionally for believing in what they don't believe.

Not in this thread.

Yes, in this thread:

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With those thoughts in mind, it really makes existence depressing and of course, ultimately meaningless.

Superstition doesn't give existence its only meaning. Value is not derived out of myth, why would you continue to be dependent or depressed on a notion that you've accepted as false. The only way to ask this question and make the follow up statements is if you've projected a non-existent value system on people who do not believe in it as if they believed in it.

Plus, TOT has a history of dishonest behavior that has earned him a negative stereotype. Are we supposed to pretend like TOT is trying to be reasonable now?

Every thread is like a new day, Omen! *cue rainbow*

Seriously though, I more or less treat the thread by it's content, not so much the OP. Not sure how much more honest and reasonable the man can be here:

I do not, I expect people who demonstrate a willingness to conduct themselves dishonestly to do so again.

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"Religious faith is the antithesis to knowledge, it is the opposition to education, and it has to act in animosity against the free exchange of ideas. Why? Because those things are what cause harm to a religions place in society most." - Me