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Not that long ago when buying a bike it was generally considered to get the best frame, then wheels and components because you could always upgrade latter.

Now it seems that the group set manufactures are driving the frame design (and forcing wheelset upgrades on us) ... I guess this was bound to happen as there's basically 3 group set manufactures

I do have a bit of buyers remorse getting a PF30 BB frame as it seems to be limiting me to SRAM (or some other BB30 crankset) but SRAM are also heading down a hydraulic / electronic path which means those cable guides/stops are going to be redundant and there's no way of running wires through the frame....

I think it's not too far off that the concept of "upgrading" a bike will be defunct - not sure where this will leave the boutique frame builders

DMF wrote:I am not talking about performance as I think there is more to the bicycle than performance, and there is more to a frameset than fit.

But then again to me bikes are a way of life, not a job description nor a means to impress a fellow man...

And in that sense, the frameset really is the most important part. Different wheels may make a bigger difference, but that really wasn't the question?

I'd rather take poor wheels on a the perfect frame than the perfect wheels on a poor frame, any day.

The question was where the emphasis should be, frame, components or wheels?

Fit is the most important thing of all. Get it wrong and there are compromises forced on you in terms of balance as well as component choice. But materially it is pretty irrelevant thereafter. I have two road bikes, one alloy and one carbon, both set up with identical position. The frames are about half a kilo apart in weight and due to lighter parts a full kilo as bikes. The other factor is the alloy being several years older. Despite received wisdom suggesting the carbon should be more comfortable & better climbing it isn't any faster nor more forgiving.

I had the use of one of our test bikes a while back. The frame was my size and set up exactly as my regular ride, but it rode like a pig. By swapping out the entry level wheels for a pair of my own it was transformed to a joy to ride.

So given the choice, I'd rather take a mid range frame & midrange components and roll on the best wheels & tyres, every time.

corky wrote:fact: you are always judged by the name on the downtube..... its the first thing another cyclist looks for.

A true but damning indictment of some cyclists.

10 years ago I had a customer who bought a Seven Ti frame at a killer price. Once built he was constantly trying to fix his aching back to no avail. I had to check it out for some reason and when I returned he asked what I thought of his pride & joy. My response was "£4000's worth of garbage" - because it never fitted him. He had the kudos name on the downtube, the full Record Group & the latest Mavic's but back pain whenever he rode it.

who wants to ride a top of the range frame with top of the range wheels is the drivetrain is really noisy?

OK - so it still important to get the fit right but to me at least it seems that you need to pick a groupset for the bike at the design stage.

For example - do you want an electronic groupset or mechanical - it impacts what you get.or, what about hydraulic brakes you need mount points for the calipersor to a lesser extend bottom brackets

so - I put it out there the groupset can no longer be considered separately from the frame which has serious implications for holding on to the special ti-frame that should out-last multiple groupsets, in 10 years time will a new top of the line groupset actually be available for your old frame ? Who out of the groupset manufactures will continue to support these frames 10 or so years down the track ?

Nowadays there are lots of people who can alter your frame to retrofit both mechanical and electric groupsets (Parlee and so forth) and after 10 years I'd figure the frame is due for some new paint anyhow. And as for steel/Ti many frame builders can change your existing mounting points or add new ones/remove old ones...

Buy the frame you like, if you still love your bike ten years down the line, this will really be a non issue. That's where we stand today, there are hundreds of shops and frame builders who can help you.