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Topic: Never been more excited to get Pimples! (Read 7512 times)

I don't know why but I love pimples on pizza. Ever since I saw pictures of Gluten Boy's Pies, I have been hoping to achieve Pimple status, Pimpledom, or how about PIMP status! Yes I like that best, we'll just call it "Pimping your Pie"

Here's tonight's "Pimped" Pie.Hydration rate is 70% made with cool water and autolysed at room temp for 1 hour, No rest period after kneading, & cold fermented for 4 days, proofed at room temp covered for 7 hours, baked at around 700F in home oven for about 4 minutes total.

I have read some of the theories on the why's and how's pizzas get "pimped". All I can say is that i tend to get a pimpled pie with longer cold ferments, but I have also gotten a pimped pie on day 2. My theory is that pimples appear when the dough is near exhaustion. Meaning it probably has more to do with how much yeast is in the dough AND how long it's been feeding not just the # of days it's been cold fermented.

I must admit Tranman that I like pizza from the oven better than the Primo Oval. So far that's one of few things in the last 3 years I have had my OvalXL that I prefer the oven cook. My pies still don't look that good but I am learning.

I must admit Tranman that I like pizza from the oven better than the Primo Oval. So far that's one of few things in the last 3 years I have had my OvalXL that I prefer the oven cook. My pies still don't look that good but I am learning.

Mike it won't take long if you keep detail notes and keep searching the forums. I"m not there yet btw, I still have a lot of work to do and things I'd like to try out. Can you tell me why you like pizza from the oven better? Is it b/c you have better control of the temps? having trouble getting high enough temps in the Primo?

I may be able to help. Once you get a few details iron out, you should be able to make awesome pies from the Primo as well as the oven. All things equal, I find that pizza on the Primo has a WFO taste to it where as I don't get that in the home oven BUT it's not a BIG difference for me.

As much as I love the smoke flavor in brisket,butts,veggies,fruits, and meats in general I haven't yet acquired the smoked Pizza taste yet. I don't hate it I just don't prefer it. I spend a lot more time on the Primo forum and check it every day. I post a little but I lurk a lot! I like to cook my oven pizza on a round piece of lodge cast iron made for pizza. Just need more practice but I am sure eventually I will get it. As a pharmacist in "real life" I enjoy the chemistry and math challenge in cooking pizza also. I am Lesagemike on the other forum also to answer your question.

I find most can get good micro-bubbling with longer cold fermentations with a high heat oven. But like you, I've seen it occur in 2 days fermentations as well. Here's a couple from a few weeks back that really made the grade.

LesageMike. I too do not like a smokey pizza. When I do pizza in the Primo, I burn just lump and NO smoking woods. I like the taste of the lump pizza. Like yourself, I too enjoy the chemistry of Pizza. I'm a Nurse Anesthetist by day, pie maker by night. So far anesthesia is easier for me than making pizzas.

Pete, the pie I was referring to was actually a one day (overnight) dough, but it was not a NY style pizza. It was (so far) my first any only pizza hut pan pizza clone. If I recall correctly, that recipe does call for quite a bit of yeast. I'll have to go check out the recipe again. Pictures are not that good, but they are there. I also use the recipe that is posted on the recipe section.

As you can see from the pics, my Margherita was a 2 day fermentation and the ham and cheese one was a 3 day (3 day has more bubbling). It coincides with what Tranman has stated. It seems the longer the fermentation the more bubbling you get, until the dough becomes completely exhausted, which at the 10 day point, it's lost almost all of it's residual sugars.

EDIT: I've also has some interesting results when I pull the dough out 2 hours ahead of time, fall asleep, and accidentally leave it out for 5-6 hours ; )

LPB, funny you alluded to interesting results with varying proofing times. I recently made 2 pies after they were cold fermented for 4 days. One was rushed and warmed proofed (not purposefully) for an hour and a half. The other doughball (from the same recipe) was proofed at room temps for 7 hours prior to baking the following day and the results couldn't be more different. The first pie had a very neopolitan texture and look to it with less rise while the 2nd pie had a very NY look and texture to it. I'm planning on intentionally redoing this proofing experiment to see if I can replicate the results. Do you guys have any ideas on why this is?

I have always been intrigued by the subject of bubbling and blistering, which prompted my question to you. In fact, there is an entire thread devoted to that subject, at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.0.html. If one reads far enough in that thread, they will see that even Tom Lehmann has a difficult time explaining blistering.

In your case, I did wonder whether you loaded up on yeast in order to speed up the fermentation process. However, 0.35% IDY is not a lot of yeast for a two-day cold fermentation. Maybe the two-hour up-front bulk fermentation at room temperature sped up the process, especially if the dough had a high finished dough temperature. Or possibly your oven setup was a factor in the blistering.

The first pie had a very neopolitan texture and look to it with less rise while the 2nd pie had a very NY look and texture to it. I'm planning on intentionally redoing this proofing experiment to see if I can replicate the results. Do you guys have any ideas on why this is?

Tran,

I think it depends on the condition of the dough at the time you decide to use it. If the physical structure of the dough is intact, with a good balance between gas production and gas retention, then that might be the optimum condition. But if the gluten structure of the dough has been degraded by enzymes because of excessive fermentation, or the water in the dough has been released from its bond, making the dough wet or slack, then the finished results will be negatively impacted. If the dough is underfermented at the time you decide to use it, then that will also usually result in sub-par results, typically because of an improper balance between gas production and gas retention. You can read further on the concept of balance between gas production and gas retention at the "Fermentation Control" section of http://www.theartisan.net/The_Artisan_Yeast_Treatise_Section_Two.htm. As you might imagine, different dough formulations will have different optimum times of usage.

The subject of pimples interests me, also. I havenít been making pizza that long and have been trying to figure out what might cause the pimples. I have never gotten them at home in my oven, even if I use the same dough I used at market, but then I usually use the dough after a short warm-up. The times I can remember getting the pimples is when my dough was either cold fermenting for a long while or if my dough was frozen and then unfrozen and left for a longer period to warm-up. If I took the unfrozen dough and let it only warm-up for a short while, I never got pimples. Just last week I did get some pimples or small blisters on some unfrozen dough. This dough was left out to warm-up for three hours.

I donít really have a theory about what is happening, but just keep watching.

The subject of pimples interests me, also. I havenít been making pizza that long and have been trying to figure out what might cause the pimples. I have never gotten them at home in my oven, even if I use the same dough I used at market, but then I usually use the dough after a short warm-up. The times I can remember getting the pimples is when my dough was either cold fermenting for a long while or if my dough was frozen and then unfrozen and left for a longer period to warm-up. If I took the unfrozen dough and let it only warm-up for a short while, I never got pimples. Just last week I did get some pimples or small blisters on some unfrozen dough. This dough was left out to warm-up for three hours.

I donít really have a theory about what is happening, but just keep watching.

Wish someone could figure this out,

Norma

Norma, Thanks for the compliment. It's really satisfying to a noob such as myself to get a compliment from the likes of yourself, GB, LPB, etc.

I think you have answered your own question there. I made a couple more pies tonight and again, pimped both pies! Both were cold fermented for 4 days and both had a nice long room temp proofing (6hours). I'm convinced that both of these factors relative to the amount of yeast I used (0.4% ADY or 12% Starter per 290gm doughball) leads to the near exhaustion of the dough resulting in blisters. At least if I am wrong, this recipe reliably produces acne.

I will be testing this theory next week to see if I am on the right track or not. I will make 2 pies from the same batch and cold ferment for 4-5 days. I will then proof one doughball for 2 hours versus a 6-8 hour proof for the other. Hopefully we will see a difference.

I find your recent experiment interesting in the pies you made today. They look great! I enjoyed seeing your pies tonight. It will be interesting to see if you can produce this pimples again with two different times in proofing your dough. Will anxiously await your results. Seeing your pies tonight makes me wonder more what causes these blisters. I see your pies made today are lighter in crust color. The pie I made this past Tuesday that had blisters was also lighter in color, even though I baked it as long as the other pies.

I am still wondering if I answered my own question. The only two doughs that I got any pimples with were an experiment with the Lehmann dough with a long ferment and with the recent poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough. The one dough was cold-fermented for awhile and the other was the frozen dough that was left out too long. I will have to let a dough ball out longer that is unfrozen and see if I get some pimples.

I am fairly new to making pizza. It has only been one year that I am trying to see what kind of results can be achieved. I also still have so much to learn.

Norma, I encourage you to lengthen the time of your proofing to see if blisters appear. I bet they do. I usually don't proof for more than 6-7 hours though. It really depends on how much yeast is in the dough. I guess some doughs won't tolerate a 6hour+ proof. I also usually only allow the doughballs to proof that long if they look like they are handling it ok. If they start to look like they are getting tired or show any signs of deflation, I'll start the oven.

I looked back at the 2 recipes for the first pie in this thread and the recent one to compare and try to find the difference for the darker color. Though they are 2 different recipes, they are rather similar. The difference being that the first pie contained a small amount of sugar 1.2% per 290gm dough (or 1/2 tsp). That could account for the browning.

I've also been known to use a mixture of a variety of locally available flours (some bleached and others unbleached) and that may account for some of the color differences. My recent tests involve a 50/50 blend of AP&BF.

To make matters even more confusing, I also frequently test varying oven/rack setups to try and optimize my pizza bake. This too can account for more or less crust coloration.

As I am slowly improving, hopefully I can cut down on the number of variables and better pinpoint the source of different outcomes. I hope to have more pimped pies this coming week.

Your experimenting is interesting. You are right about maybe the sugar or flours helping to brown the crust. In addition testing varying oven/rack setups could also change the results of your crust color.

I usually donít change more than one variable at a time to see what results can be achieved. I have two frozen dough balls from last week and will take your advise and try a longer proof time to see if there will be any pimples. I also made one Glutenboy dough last Friday and mixed it by hand to see what the results would be in the market oven. I have always wanted to try his formula. I will also see if there are any pimples on that pie. I donít want to let it proof for too long, because I would like to see a starting point for his formula and then maybe a longer fermentation time.

My dough formulas are different than yours. I have never tried to make a 70% hydration dough, except for a foccacia or Sicilian type. Your high temperature in your oven can also make a difference. I usually use KASL for most of my NY style pies.

My results with the pimples today were inconclusive. I made my first dough this morning and it had pimples. The second and third pizzas also had pimples. This is unusual for my pizzas with my poolish preferment for the Lehmann dough. During the rest of the day today, I didnít get any pimples or blisters. I even left the dough I had frozen out for 6 hours on the bench after it had unfrozen and that didnít even get the pimples. That dough was slack and hard to open, but it turned out okay. I tried Glutenboys formula that I had made Friday and that didnít get pimples either. These pimples still have me puzzled.

Maybe you or someone else will have better luck or skill in figuring out what causes pimples,

Norma beautiful looking pies and pimples! So it sounds like you got pimples on some pies and not others. Were the pies that you got pimples on from the same batch/recipe or different batches/recipes?I'm curious to know the cold ferment times on the pies that got pimples versus the pies that didn't.

Well I made a couple of doughballs on Sunday and baked them tonight (2 days cold fermented). I wanted to rest them longer, but b/c of the high starter % (20%) the balls had doubled in volume in 2 days so I wanted to bake them at their peak.

Pic 1 were the 2 balls after a day of cold fermentation.Pic 2 are the balls after their room temp proof. The ball in the black plate was proofed at room temps for 6 hours and the other 2 hours. Finishing temps at the end of proof were 73F for the black plate (6hours) and 70F for the other (2 hours proof). I wanted to see if proofing time made a difference in blister formation.

First pie was the 2 hour proof. So 2 days cold fermented and 2 hour proof.

2nd Pie, was proofed for 6 hours.

Conclusions: Both pies had a small amount of pimples but I had to look for them. They both had a similar amount of blistering. I was hoping and expecting the 6 hour dough to have more but it really didn't. So apparently proofing times may or may not have an effect on blistering. I say maybe, b/c I'm still convince that blistering is due to the dough nearing exhaustion. So if the dough is near exhaustion, then proof times would have a bigger effect. If not, then it won't have an effect. I feel though that had I let the 2 go for another day or 2, then I would have gotten more or bigger pimples.

My next test will be 2 doughballs, one proofed for 2 days and the other for 4+ to see if there is a difference.

Thanks for saying the pies look good and also the pimples. You are right about me getting some pies with pimples and some with no pimples. All the pies with pimples were from the same dough, with the same cold ferment times. I used the one batch of dough which was a 15 lb. batch of dough for the pies. Same oven temperature and same time in the oven. Some had pimples and some didnít. That is why I said this still has me puzzled. I will keep watching to see what happens from week to week.

Great to see your results. Your pies look great! Hope your experiments will tell what happens to make pimples.

Thanks for saying the pies look good and also the pimples. You are right about me getting some pies with pimples and some with no pimples. All the pies with pimples were from the same dough, with the same cold ferment times. I used the one batch of dough which was a 15 lb. batch of dough for the pies. Same oven temperature and same time in the oven. Some had pimples and some didnít. That is why I said this still has me puzzled. I will keep watching to see what happens from week to week.

Great to see your results. Your pies look great! Hope your experiments will tell what happens to make pimples.

Norma

Thanks for the clarification. That is so very strange! To get pimples on some pies and not others from the same batch. Was the pimpling vs non pimpling pies drastically different in the amount or size of pimples or was the difference a slight difference?