Any other 'PCSO issues' that do not fit in to the other forums. Recruitment of PCSOs, day to day PCSO duties, questions about law, joining the regular police, becoming a special, anything else remotely PCSO orientated!!

Major changes to anti-social behaviour (ASB) legislation go live today Monday, 20 October. The new Act, which puts victims at the heart of the response to ASB, streamlines the current 19 powers to just six. These are designed to be quick, practical, effective and easy for the police and partners to use, providing better protection for victims and communities, as well as a real deterrent to perpetrators.

But what real difference does the new ASB law make to PCSOs out there? Do YOU know about these changes??

Probably the one change that I like is that PCSO's can be given the power to issue Directions to Leave. We've had an information/news article on our intranet at work and emails as well. However, we're promised training which has yet to materialise and it has yet to be decided if we'll be given the power.

I'll be disappointed if we aren't, because it has the potential to be an extremely effective tool in dealing with ASB/disorder. A colleague has been tasked with up to 20 youths gathering outside a bus station but has difficulty in getting a PC to accompany him - he quite rightly says it's potentially risky for him to go alone. I've told him that if we get these powers, I'll go with him one evening (plus any other PCSO's who'll help) and we'll dish out as many directions as possible. He'll need an inspector's authority of course, but I've suggested he approaches the inspector who tasked him. If the inspector refuses, my colleague can then say he can't deal with these youths if he hasn't go the powers or back up. We have encountered these yobs before. They wait till your back is turned then come out with the usual comments, piggy noises etc. I did manage to catch one swearing and luckily he was over 18 so I gave him a PND for S.5. Not there and then. I went round to his house the next night & delivered it in front of his (very shocked) parents. The £90 was paid and he hasn't been seen there since.

Another scenario I encountered was on a Wednesday night, during our regular town centre operation to deal with drunken disorder. Two lads had been fighting. The fight was broken up but a group of blokes were taunting the loser. I managed to get them to move by threatening S.5 tickets, but I think a direction to leave would have been better. If one is issued on a Friday night, the 48 hour period also affects their plans for Saturday night.

Hi powder monkey , We have been granted the dispersal power which is great, just reading your post you mention that you had given someone a Sec 5 PND, so i take it your force has given you that power. Now that will be a great tool to have as we don't in D&C but hopefully one day.

Regarding the rest of the ASB legislation I hope that our chief will grant us the power to issue CPN Etc... just have to wait and see as at the moment. I believe that its just the EHO thats got all the power even though it says in the legislation that it is for PCSO's and Pc's however this is down to the Chief to decide.

This is one of the frustrating things about the job. One of the main things we're expected to deal with is ASB yet there seems to be a reluctance to give us certain powers, as well as a discrepancy not only between forces but from division to division.

I was trained on how to issue a PND for S.5 POA but it seems that colleagues who were trained some time before me either were not or have forgotten they were.

I have been stationed on two different divisions as a PCSO and issued 3 PND's for S.5 whilst at my old station. Regarding the more recent one, at my current station, a colleague asked me if we're allowed to issue them. I explained about my training & that none had been challenged, either by the recipient, my supervision, our crime evaluators (who check all new occurrences created on the system) or the Pentip team. It also seems that many PCSO's don't read our intranet news site where there's information regarding all sorts of stuff, including things that affect our job. For example, I have issued a number of FPN's for fail to display but obviously that has now gone. At one point, the code for the ticket changed yet it seems I was the only one aware as no one else did the tickets, thinking they weren't allowed. My trainers stated that a PCSO can issue FPN's for S.5, littering, dog fouling, obstruction, throwing stones on the railway, throwing fireworks, possess Cat 4 firework & cycling on the footpath and, when Pentip came in, for non-endorsable offences such as no seat belt (done one of those). I have a list of non-endorsable offences that I carry around with me.

To answer the last colleague's questions, I spoke to my Sgt & he says he could see no reason as to why a PCSO cannot issue a S.5 PND, provided all the other criteria for Pentip are met.

I'm a great believer in justice being done as soon after the offence as possible. If I can issue a S.5 ticket within minutes of a person breaching the POA I think it shows them very quickly that their behaviour will not be tolerated, it shows witnesses that it won't be tolerated, that the offender will be dealt with immediately & that PCSO's do have teeth and are not "plastic policemen". I can also use that ticket, if necessary, as a starting point for evidence towards getting an ASBO/Injunction.

I can't help feeling that if we're not given the powers then we shouldn't be asked to deal with ASB problems. If I get the dispersal powers, I intend using them to break up gangs of kids from one estate gathering on another & causing problems. If I'm ever told that I can't have the powers or that I can't issue S.5 tickets my response is going to be "Fine, I'll stop. But what about public perception when I do nothing about someone effing and blinding on the street? Don't tell me to shout up for a PC because there's no one available/willing, due to staff cuts/most PC's think it's beneath them". I'd be more than happy to tell members of the public that I don't have the powers & if they think I should then they should contact the IPCC or the Chief Constable. So many teenagers think they're untouchable and it's time they learnt differently. As for over 18's, well, a great way to teach people is to hit them where it hurts - in the pocket.

My training on how to use a PND was take a look at this form you do have the power to issue for one of two offence's I.e firework and throwing stones on a railway track however you will not use this and that was the last time i seen the ticket. I have stated before on this forum we are not allowed to issue any tickets in relation to any traffic offences.

I agree with you powdermonkey regarding acting as soon as the offence is committed as that does send out a strong message to the offender and the MOP who are usually watching. But it is down to each force how they want to use their staff and thats why know one knows what PCSO's can and cant do as it differs so much from force to force. It sounds like your force is very proactive in the way they use their PCSO's which i think is a good thing. I hope that being given the dispersal power is a sign of more tools to come.

the dark lord wrote:We have been told we cannot use any new powers or legislation.

Apparently unison have issues. No further explanation.

Any unionites explain what unisons problem is?
This is potentially damaging as the public will perceive we are not wanting to move forward and help them.

I just hope unison sent going to turn this into a money grab.

I expect it will be to do with money. Depending on what your pay scale currently is, the force are supposed to increase your pay after a Hay Review (sic?) if your powers/responsibilities increase. If the force are refusing to pay you more for the increased responsibility then the union probably want you to keep doing what you're doing, and avoid using the new powers. They should explain this to you though.

the dark lord wrote:We have been told we cannot use any new powers or legislation.

Apparently unison have issues. No further explanation.

Any unionites explain what unisons problem is?
This is potentially damaging as the public will perceive we are not wanting to move forward and help them.

I just hope unison sent going to turn this into a money grab.

I expect it will be to do with money. Depending on what your pay scale currently is, the force are supposed to increase your pay after a Hay Review (sic?) if your powers/responsibilities increase. If the force are refusing to pay you more for the increased responsibility then the union probably want you to keep doing what you're doing, and avoid using the new powers. They should explain this to you though.

All that we have been told is that it is issues raised by Unison.

But even the Unsion members dont really know what is going on.

Some unionites tell me that there has been a vote on a pay rise which has been rejected?

Do we lose any of the original powers with this new legislation i.e. they are intended to be superceeded but in the non acceptance and implementation we are left short?

I would be happy to have all the powers under the new ASB legislation and no more money for it. Those tools will be so bloody useful in my day to day duties and the thought of the unions to which i do understand why they argue this for our benefit but the risk for us not to have it just annoys me.

ninjamonk wrote:I would be happy to have all the powers under the new ASB legislation and no more money for it. Those tools will be so bloody useful in my day to day duties and the thought of the unions to which i do understand why they argue this for our benefit but the risk for us not to have it just annoys me.

That seems to be the view of the vast majority!

I can't help but feel we are being made pawns in unison's squabbles with the government.

All Unison / GMB want to do is strike for more pay while taking away PCSO powers as they are PCSOs themselves but also lazy fudgers who want to live out their days til their retirement with no need to do any work. Such a pain in the arse.

Power of arrest for PCSOs for 'as and when' - s24a PACE & common law (i.e. BoP) using s3 CLA 1967

I'm a PCSO, I will WATCH you get your head kicked in (as per force policy)

JimmyRiddle wrote:All Unison / GMB want to do is strike for more pay while taking away PCSO powers as they are PCSOs themselves but also lazy fudgers who want to live out their days til their retirement with no need to do any work. Such a pain in the arse.