World Families Forums - U106 'the wander years'

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Remember, this is not a scientific sample and is probably biased towards American immigration sources....

No, this is definitely not a scientific sample. It is heavily biased torwards British Isles and a few origins are remarkable

What do you men "no" ? That is just what I said, "this is not a scientific sample." What are you disagreeing on?

Please don't shoot the messenger for the message. I don't change surnames or try to reconcile them with the origins. In some cases, the surnames are known adopted surnames. In some cases the surnames are mistakenly for the contact, not the lineage.

I have only one y-line and I dont know how you ended up with more than one.

I have two grandfathers, four great-grandfathers, eight great-grandfathers, etc. I love my mother's father no less than my father's father and I've inherited just as much of my looks, heritage, etc. from my mother's father as from my father's father. My mother's paternal lineage, etc. are important to me and a part of me. The Y chromosome is just one small element that is just a good tracker, just like mtDNA can be a tracker.

Quote from: stoneman

You have the right to write about any haplogroup but you have to be careful not to step on other peoples toes.

I will not be bullied into not arguing a point because of concerns of a person who may feel victimized. Do we have to walk on eggshells? Disagreement is fine, personal attacks distract from the discussion. I try not to make arguments that attack the person, i.e. ad hominem, rather than an opposing point of view. Notice, I never criticize a person's stated pedigree and I think I stay from personal questions or characterizing another poster negatively. I may characterize another poster's arguments negatively. There is a difference.

BTW, I added a link to the last message on the previous page; don't miss it and tell me what you (all) think.

I agree, but we just need a lot more data period. I think the whole area around the Black Sea from SE Europe to Caucasia and the Levant would be lovely place to survey.

I like to look at the Google maps, but I think they can be misleading until we build enough data to calculate frequencies, at the least, rather than just absolute numbers.

As you probably know by now, for various reason I don't like the per-country approach of variance or frequency much. I don't like variance or frequency at all and countries are too recent an invention to be of much use studying the situation of, say, 4,500 years bp. So, I guess, I prefer Google Maps but with a little more data than we currently have.

Were are we going to get that data ? We can try get the maximum out of the data we have, if a volunteer steps forward to do some coordinate work, but what would then be the next step ??

I have only one y-line and I dont know how you ended up with more than one.

I have two grandfathers, four great-grandfathers, eight great-grandfathers, etc. I love my mother's father no less than my father's father and I've inherited just as much of my looks, heritage, etc. from my mother's father as from my father's father. My mother's paternal lineage, etc. are important to me and a part of me. The Y chromosome is just one small element that is just a good tracker, just like mtDNA can be a tracker.

Quote from: stoneman

You have the right to write about any haplogroup but you have to be careful not to step on other peoples toes.

I will not be bullied into not arguing a point because of concerns of a person who may feel victimized. Do we have to walk on eggshells? Disagreement is fine, personal attacks distract from the discussion. I try not to make arguments that attack the person, i.e. ad hominem, rather than an opposing point of view. Notice, I never criticize a person's stated pedigree and I think I stay from personal questions or characterizing another poster negatively. I may characterize another poster's arguments negatively. There is a difference.

I have only one y-line and I dont know how you ended up with more than one.

I have two grandfathers, four great-grandfathers, eight great-grandfathers, etc. I love my mother's father no less than my father's father and I've inherited just as much of my looks, heritage, etc. from my mother's father as from my father's father. My mother's paternal lineage, etc. are important to me and a part of me. The Y chromosome is just one small element that is just a good tracker, just like mtDNA can be a tracker.

Quote from: stoneman

You have the right to write about any haplogroup but you have to be careful not to step on other peoples toes.

I will not be bullied into not arguing a point because of concerns of a person who may feel victimized. Do we have to walk on eggshells? Disagreement is fine, personal attacks distract from the discussion. I try not to make arguments that attack the person, i.e. ad hominem, rather than an opposing point of view. Notice, I never criticize a person's stated pedigree and I think I stay from personal questions or characterizing another poster negatively. I may characterize another poster's arguments negatively. There is a difference.

I am not a victim. I will not be bullied.

Excellent! Then I will not have to worry about stepping on your toes if I disagree with an argument you are making. I promise to keep away from personal back and forth, like this. Let's go back to the topic, please.

To that point, Italy seems to not have been impacted by a major L48+ migration because unlike in most areas of Europe, L48 is much less common. We tested the following L48- kits a few months ago and all are now U106+ L48- Z156-

One point in time, I thought one of the Cesaroni's might actually be Z18+ and on my suggestion he ordered a test. After all, there are strong links between southern Germany and northern Italy (more than both just liking fast cars). Unfortunately he turned out Z18-.

Italy is an interesting case that illustrates my point rather nicely. L48 is another U106 sub-clade but has a distribution that's different from the others. It's a good candidate for further serious research, I guess.

U106 in Italy is an interesting case. As has been noted, it does not have a run of the mill mix of U106 types.

U106 in Italy is an interesting case. As has been noted, it does not have a run of the mill mix of U106 types.

I suggested to Cesaroni (Francesco) to test himself for Z381. Anyway, if so, he would always be one of the most ancient R-U106 subclades.I am following his case, and that of the Brazilian Zeni, from many years, from when the most part of you thought that U106 was in Italy certainly a recent German introgression and I was theorizing the “Italian Refugium”.

Also, should I take any more SNP tests or is it the end of the road for me?

I asked you to test yourself for Z381, which was the most ancient of your line, but Z18 is at the same level like ancientness: At this point you should test yourself for Z14 and Z372, being negative for L257. If you will result negative, you’ll be the most ancient also of this line, and that Z18 is come from North Sea shore could be discussed.

I asked you to test yourself for Z381, which was the most ancient of your line, but Z18 is at the same level like ancientness: At this point you should test yourself for Z14 and Z372, being negative for L257. If you will result negative, you’ll be the most ancient also of this line, and that Z18 is come from North Sea shore could be discussed.

According to FTDNA's R-Z18 project, most of the Z18+ Z14- are continetal Europeans from Central Europe (Switzerland, France, Germany, Belgium...), while Z372+ men seem to come from further up north.

Many thanks, Francesco. Then the line of R-Z18 is from South to North along the Rhine. I haven’t studied these haplotypes, and now that ySearch is prohibited, it is more difficult, but that the origin is Southwards (i.e. Italy and the Italian Refugium) shouldn’t be discarded.

It is possible that there is somewhere in Europe a link amongst you you derive closely from, but the link with these people, also taking in consideration the mutations around the modal etc., could be of thousands of years.