I’m willing to believe that there are much more sophisticated arguments going on in the ivory towers, but that’s just not what we see, is it? Even the pope uses the “Stalin was an atheist” nonsense.

The way they talk about ivory towers, it’s almost as if they think popularization of philosophy is a bad thing. As an advocate of science education, I find that very strange.

http://toomanytribbles.blogspot.com/ toomanytribbles

as is usual for this type of crap, comments are disabled on the original youtube page. so much for civil discourse.

The Unbrainwashed

Theologian: “There are good scientific reasons to believe what we believe.”

Apparently, a virgin birth is scientific.

I also would like to respond to one gross characterization of New Atheism. New Atheists are, admittedly, aggressive in their condemnation of religious delusion. I’m not denying this. From the religious viewpoint, it’s a blatant show of disrespect towards their worldview. Yes it sure is. However, my lack of respect for God belief is confined solely to the religious arena. I’ve read a little bit of apologetics concerning the existence of a Creator or an impersonal first cause. I fully admit individuals like Aquinas are geniuses. In my opinion, the impersonal Creator debate should be considered rational and in the realm of reason. Although I vehemently disagree, I do consider people who believe in a first cause, and not religion, to be rational and not suffering from a delusion. I can harbor respect for this viewpoint if an individual engaged in substantial philosophical pondering to arrive at that particular conclusion. Dissimilarly, I have no respect for brainwashed, deluded, close minded religious persons.

Ted Weeks

John Turner spoke of an exchange with an atheist professor at an airport and said that the professor was embarrassed because he didn’t know Christian theology as well as Turner knew atheistic arguments. Turner said, “That is telling,” implying that this professor is now “ready” to be converted.

All it tells me is that atheists are willing to be proven wrong (or at least unprepared) in any argument, because they’re still willing to change perspectives and enrich their understanding of the conversation and topic. When a person of faith is exposed to being ignorant of a conflicting perspective or worse, proven wrong in an argument, a deus ex machina descends from the sky called “Faith” to rescue him and keep his original perspective intact.

Faith does not equal conviction.

http://www.rekounas.org rekounas

Why do these theist posters always disable to comments on youtube when they post these one-sided debate videos?

I love the professional Christian. What the hell is that? A person that goes to church more then just at Christmas and Easter? Give me a break.

http://www.skepchick.org writerdd

We (the “new atheists”) attack with violence and venom? I’m sorry, but these people have their head in the sand. If you’ve ever seen Dawkins, Harris, etc. (the authors cited in the video) speak in person, they are polite, mild, and totally in control emotionally — as is Hemant. From my viewpoint, it’s Christians who have been violent and venomous, as many, many recent news stories and videos of Christian preachers confirm.

In addition, I’m glad this discussion has moved from academia to the public and popular spheres. That’s where it belongs. It’s too important for the average person to ignore. And, as Mr. Writerdd often tells me, “They started it.” If religious folk had kept religion quiet and in the personal sphere, we would have no reason to be speaking out so loudly in the public sphere. But they are the ones who took their beliefs and threw them in the rest of our faces, even to the point of trying to legislate religious so-called morality. And we should accept this in silence?

The speakers in this video only believe those with whom they disagree should shut up. Basically, my response to that is “not a chance.” My goal is to find more places to speak out loudly and without shame about atheism and to do everything I can to stop prejudice against unbelievers and to acheive public acceptance for those who don’t think that faith is a virtue and, yes, to get more young people to abandon faith.

http://blueollie.wordpress.com ollie

Remember that these sort of videos are aimed toward theists; of course we are going to find them absurd.

I had a belly laugh about the thought that Christianity being so “tolerant”: remember the inquisitions, auto-de-fas, etc.?

In the days of old, theologians, if they strayed too far from the mark, had very short life spans.

http://www.acosmopolitan.blogspot.com Anatoly

Yep, Dan Brown, he’s a real promoter of atheism, he is.

grazatt

Where was this clip from?

Renacier

“Atheism is the dominant secular religion…”

I love it when they call non-theism a religion; it gives me an excuse to grind my teeth and shake my fist.

I take pride in the fact that I try to give the other side a chance. I’ve read as many apologetic authors as I have read atheistic ones; and I really don’t think I’m the only one here who can say that. The fact is that there are only so many arguments you can make in favor of a deity, and all these religious defenders just repeat them over and over again.

Shane

Ha ha ha… he had Alistair McGrath in his list of rational apologists.

http://atheistrevolution.blogspot.com/ vjack

When they say that Christianity is an anvil that has dulled many hammers, it sounds as if they are actually proud of their close-mindedness. I suppose this isn’t surprising, but I found it interesting that it seems so blatant here.

Mriana

I sort of understand these guys POV. I’ve studied many religions and they aren’t all alike, even though they have many similarities. They are different and I can honestly say that Islam, IMO, does not worship the same god as the Christians or the Jews. Yet they all come from the same roots and the same mythology. Hinduism and Buddhism have similar stories too, but also different stories at the same time. They have similar stories and mythologies, even share the same stories for that matter, but they are different and if one has not done their homework they can’t see all of this or know what is happening.

On the other hand, we have aggressive Christians, Islamics and Jews, so it’s no surprise that there are aggressive atheists. This should be no surprise to anyone. I don’t know why people should think that IF the Falwells of this world can be hateful to others that they don’t expect some atheist extremists to act similarly too.

However, I understand attacking dogma and alike. These things need to be changed, but we cannot expect religion to just go away. What we can do is be more tolerant to each other, esp when there is a lack of dogma and extremism. I do not like dogma. Dogma can kill, both psychologically and physically. I don’t like extremism either, because it can be violent, both verbally and physically.

I do think we all need to know about our cultural religion and maybe a little of other religions too. However, I do not believe children need to be indoctrinated into any religion. I’ve educated my sons about religion, esp their cultural one, as well as young people can be educated that is. One has so far chosen Buddhism and the other hasn’t chosen anything, but he has a belief in a deity of some sort. They know my position and they understand how I take issue with dogma and extremism. They also know why because they know their grandmother all too well.

My mother never gave them any gift that was not religious, except one. All she and her sister think about is their religion and they won’t live in the modern world. They were sheltered from it as children and they have continued this by sheltering themselves. Not a good thing. They are also luney and militant when it comes to religion, so much so that my older son avoids talking to her except maybe to say, “Hi, grandma. How are you?” maybe adding a happy birthday or whatever the occassion maybe.

IMHO though, there is nothing to defend, nothing to protect. IF their faith or lack there of wasn’t strong enough to begin with then they never had it or a lack there of- it was only on the surface and not something they could really claim as theirs. I was born with my own internal beliefs and I’ve never departed from them, but they are apparently incompatible with Christianity. The only ones who would beg to differ are those like Spong, Harpur, and Cupitt, maybe even Price. All religious Humanists though and there are even some liberal and progressive Christians who beg to differ, but the more militant Religious Reich people do not see my views and lack of a belief in a metaphysical/anthropomorphic deity, as well as a lack of a belief in a historical Jesus as Christian.

I think what we need is more tolerance for the less extreme on either side and education- not just in religion, but in every area. Look for the similarities we share, such as a belief in love and compassion. I think this is the only way to end religious battles and wars. It’s ok to say, “OK maybe you don’t/do believe in a god, but you do believe in love and that is something we both share.”

JeffN

Mriana said,

December 30, 2007 at 10:59 am

I think you said with all those words let’s agree to disagree and can’t we all just get along?. Or something to that affect.

Renacier said,

Atheism is the dominant secular religion…”

I love it when they call non-theism a religion; it gives me an excuse to grind my teeth and shake my fist.

Then grind your teeth and shake your fist some more because i Happen to agree that many atheists treat atheism as if it were there religion. and what i find humorous is the same ones that are treating it (Atheism) like a religion are so proud of the fact that they practice no religion. Go figure.

JeffN

My last post got me wondering?. I suppose if Atheism were a religion God would be replaced with self But I can’t help but wonder what would be the atheist Bible. Evan the Humanist have the Humanist Manifesto One and Two.?. 😉

Mriana

JeffN said,

December 30, 2007 at 11:35 am

Mriana said,

December 30, 2007 at 10:59 am

I think you said with all those words let’s agree to disagree and can’t we all just get along?. Or something to that affect.

Yes and no. We need to fight extremism and dogmatism, but other than that, yes that is what I was saying.

http://ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

Mriana said,

IMHO though, there is nothing to defend, nothing to protect. IF their faith or lack there of wasn’t strong enough to begin with then they never had it or a lack there of- it was only on the surface and not something they could really claim as theirs.

Great point! I’m with you, Mriana!

My mother never gave them any gift that was not religious, except one.

I was boycotting Christmas this year and didn’t give too many gifts, but the people that I did give a gift to, they all got an athiest (or non-Christian) book. I bought my pastor a non-dualism book, as well as “A Letter to a Christian Nation” by Sam Harris. I bought my husband Harris’ other book, “End of Faith.” I bought my brother “God is not Great” by Hitchens. And for several other friends I got signed copies of non-Christian but spiritual books by an author that I befriended. I’m currently reading a book called “The Yoga of Jesus,” which an atheist friend said he saw at a book store. I bought it, ’cause the title intrigued me.

It’s all very fascinating to me because I can see bits of truth in everything. Christianity does not have a monopoly on the truth. I have the Spirit of Christ in me, and that does not change, although I’m constantly challenging it.

Why is it that some people on both sides of this issue think that everyone should think like they do, eveyone should believe like they do, and everyone should act as they do? Life is exciting and fascinating because of our differences. I hope we NEVER evolve into one big boring blob.

As Richard Wade said on another thread, we just need to remember not to take life so seriously.

It’s ok to say, “OK maybe you don’t/do believe in a god, but you do believe in love and that is something we both share.”

Mriana, I nominate you as the smartest guy! (Don’t ask… the “guy” is an inside joke.)

Mriana

JeffN said,

December 30, 2007 at 11:48 am

My last post got me wondering?. I suppose if Atheism were a religion God would be replaced with self But I can’t help but wonder what would be the atheist Bible. Evan the Humanist have the Humanist Manifesto One and Two.?.

Humanist Manifesto I, II, and III/2000. The Humanist Manifesto III is AHA’s and the 2000 is CSH’s. There was a split after the II.

Mriana

Why is it that some people on both sides of this issue think that everyone should think like they do, eveyone should believe like they do, and everyone should act as they do? Life is exciting and fascinating because of our differences. I hope we NEVER evolve into one big boring blob.

As Richard Wade said on another thread, we just need to remember not to take life so seriously.

Yes, and I think the key to not taking life seriously is to not be extreme- in anything. Found in most religions is the idea of “moderation in all things” and I think that is something that can be practiced even on the secular level. One does not need religion to practice moderation, but they do need an internal drive/determination to practice moderation.

JeffN

Mriana said,

December 30, 2007 at 12:00 pm

Humanist Manifesto I, II, and III/2000. The Humanist Manifesto III is AHA’s and the 2000 is CSH’s. There was a split after the II.

I wasn’t aware of that Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Mriana

You’re welcome. Glad I could help.

http://www.bolingbrookbabbler.com William

So Christian promoting their religion=Good. Atheist promoting their beliefs=Bad.

That makes sense. 😉

Mikey

rekounas said: “I love the professional Christian. What the hell is that? A person that goes to church more then just at Christmas and Easter? Give me a break.”

A professional Christian must be someone who gets paid to be a Christian.

http://ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

I love the professional Christian. What the hell is that? A person that goes to church more then just at Christmas and Easter? Give me a break.

A professional Christian must be someone who gets paid to be a Christian.

These guys are grossly misinformed and rely on fallacy after fallacy to eat up the eight minutes in that video. How can anyone take these smegheads seriously?

http://ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

I saw that video earlier this morning — the stupid, it burns!

These guys are grossly misinformed and rely on fallacy after fallacy to eat up the eight minutes in that video. How can anyone take these smegheads seriously?

Hey, now… play nice! Ravi’s a brilliant man! As are R.C. Sproul, Os Guinness, and the likes… Not that they hold a candle up to the four horsemen.. Ah, the perfection! 😉

http://religiouscomics.net Jeff

After viewing the video, I wish we had a smiley face for throwing up. I’ll have to research that.

BTW, there are lots of professional Christians. Each church as at least one.

http://religiouscomics.net Jeff

It looks like we are limited to the following smiley faces with wordpress blogs. Mouse-over to see code. Some have additional alternative codes.

😀 😮 😯 😕 8) 😆 😡 😛 😥 👿 😈 😉 ❗ 💡 ➡ 😐

I couldn’t find throwing up, so I will use 😡 to express myself for this video.

http://www.ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

Jeff! I love those faces!!! Learn something new everyday! I didn’t find the video that offensive, though. Can’t you find ANYTHING that you like in it?? 😕 😯

http://thisislikesogay.blogspot.com Duncan

Mriana, “Yes, and I think the key to not taking life seriously is to not be extreme- in anything. Found in most religions is the idea of ‘moderation in all things’ and I think that is something that can be practiced even on the secular level. One does not need religion to practice moderation, but they do need an internal drive/determination to practice moderation.”

I have to disagree here, very strongly. Actually “extremism” and “moderation” do not denote much of anything. Everything all depends on who gets to determine what the extremes are. For example, when Richard Nixon took office, he could have killed all the Vietnamese (at one extreme) or he could have killed none of them (at the other). So, he was moderate and only killed a couple million of them.

For another example, read Martin Luther King Jr’s remarks on “extremism” in his letter from the Birmingham jail: he says that at first he was disturbed to be called an extremist by moderate whites and blacks, but then he realized that Jesus was an extremist too, and that it’s better to be an extremist for love and justice than to be a moderate for bigotry and injustice. While I don’t care whether Jesus was an extremist or a moderate, since he’s no role model of mine, I think King made a good point there. “Extremist” is an insult thrown by people who don’t want to think very hard, morally or otherwise.

You don’t need religion to practice any virtue or vice, since religion doesn’t own them. But I don’t consider “moderation” (or “extremism”) to be a virtue. For another handy quote, consider Jim Hightower’s quip “The only thing in the middle of the road is yellow stripes and dead armadillos.”

http://mytensmakt.blogspot.com/ BryanJ

It seems that it is surprisingly easy for an atheist be be labeled as violent or militant. What does a religionist need to do to acquire that label?

Mriana

Duncan said,

You don’t need religion to practice any virtue or vice, since religion doesn’t own them.

I never said religion did.

The thing is, I don’t think you understand what I mean by moderation. I think the liberally religious and the liberal non-theists would be a form of moderation. I am not talking moderate religious beliefs though. I think you and I have been through this before, but if not, I’ll say it again, religion isn’t going to be destroyed- at least not in our lifetime, so we have to accept those who are not dogmatic and alike, while while speak up against the dogmatic and militant people- this includes militant atheists as well as religious militant extremists. To do that, we need the aide and help of the progressive and liberal religionists. The religious moderates are probably going to be the fence sitters.

“Extremist” is an insult thrown by people who don’t want to think very hard, morally or otherwise.

This is BS.

BryanJ said,

December 30, 2007 at 7:30 pm

It seems that it is surprisingly easy for an atheist be be labeled as violent or militant. What does a religionist need to do to acquire that label?

Be an Evangelical Religious Reich fundie.

Kyle O’Brien

Live and let live worked so well for Christianity at the start of time. You know, with the pagans and other religions it felt it had to conquer.

Haha, instill Christianity at an early age. And they say it’s not brainwashing.

Sarah H.

Kyle O’Brien:

That part gave me the shivers. I found Dawkins’ “God Delusion” mediocre in many respects, but his chapter on religious indoctrination as child abuse really hit home for me.

I was brought up living on the grounds of an IVCF retreat camp (my parents were on staff), going to a very evangelical church, enrolled in sunday school and youth group without ever being offered a choice.

When I began to question my beliefs in college, it wasn’t because some professor with an agenda brainwashed me. I majored in religious studies because I was so surprised to find out that there were religions besides Christianity, and while reading theologians and scholars and mystics and ancient texts, I came to my own conclusions, thinking for myself for the first time.

I still have horrible anxiety attacks sometimes, worrying that I’ll go to hell or feeling guilty for abandoning something my family feels so strongly about. I 100% agree with Dawkins that calling a child a “Christian” child or a “Muslim” child is wrong. Seeing a report like this advocating even more stringent teaching of belief as fact to children makes my skin crawl, not just because I’m an atheist, but because I’ve suffered the consequences of being brought up that way.

Kyle O’Brien

Sarah H –

I can’t say I had it that rough, but it’s pretty obvious that it’s brainwashing from an early age. Look at the years you go through the sacraments (Catholic).

Second grade and you do Reconciliation and Communion? You don’t even understand the two at that age. You just do what you’re told.

It’s exactly like calling someone a Democrat or Republican at the age of 6. You don’t do it. He’s exactly right.

I would like to know what you found mediocre about it? And perhaps if you liked a different book instead?

I mean, personally, I found the child abuse to hit home hard as well as Pascal’s Wager which I have confronted both before reading and after reading.

http://blog.lib.umn.edu/fole0091/epistaxis Epistaxis

I like how it takes a professor of literature, who may or may not have read past the title, to call The God Delusion a “screed.” I also like how they show another clip of him talking about teaching kids optimism, as if that had anything to do with what was being discussed.

All things considered, that could have been even less informed and more divisive than it was, so I’m not as upset as I could be. The only thing that really offended me was the guy who thinks Christianity can take credit for free speech. He said these authors should try giving a lecture in the Middle East; well, I think they’d get just about the same response in the Deep South. Or in any European country in the dark ages, when Christianity was the state religion as Islam is in modern dark-age countries now.

http://religiouscomics.net Jeff

Linda said, …Can’t you find ANYTHING that you like in it??

Well, I did agree that atheists should know a little about what they don’t believe in. Of course, “knowing” is not a pre-requisite for not believing. It would just be good for “everybody getting along”. Likewise, I would hope more religious people would know a little about why atheists don’t believe (other than the rationale that atheists are under Satan’s spell which I have heard all too often in my life).

Richard Wade

The only thing that really offended me was the guy who thinks Christianity can take credit for free speech.

Yeah, more of that infuriating Christian rewriting of U.S. history. Blasphemy laws Are still on the books in several states. They weren’t declared unconstitutional by the Supreme Court until 1952.

It isn’t Christianity’s benevolence toward free speech and free inquiry that makes it safer (not safe) to openly challenge religious assumptions here, it’s the fact that their aging grip on society is weakening. They’re losing 75% (if their statistics are correct) of college students because society is slowly growing up and won’t accept child-like explanations for the world around them.

That growth is not going to reverse because they try to characterize a few books that have compelling points as “violent,” or “screeds.” Lotsa luck.

http://www.ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

The only thing that really offended me was the guy who thinks Christianity can take credit for free speech.

Your anxiety attacks are quite normal, although they usually fade with time. You didn’t say how long ago you left your faith behind. For me it’s been about 15 years. I don’t have daytime anxiety any more, but I still have anxious dreams that sometimes slip into becoming nightmares.

Sarah H.

Kyle O’Brien:

I think the book could be incredibly useful for those who are already curious about atheism and alternatives to religion, but I guess as someone who has degrees in religious studies and philosophy, I felt it was mostly a simplified version of arguments that have been around (in some cases) for centuries. I do think that if it reaches even one person, challenging their thoughts about atheism and the reasons people abandon their religious upbringing, then it’s well worth it.

As someone who is already an atheist, I found most of the book boring, aside from a few chapters (such as the one on child abuse) that covered material that was new to me. If I had to pick a favorite piece of writing in the genre, I’d have to choose “Why I am Not a Christian” by Bertrand Russell.

writerdd:

Thanks for the link and the encouragement. It’s been about six years since I started challenging my beliefs and four since I decided to identify as an atheist. Despite the anxiety and guilt, I’ve never found a reason to go back. Studying subjects like neurology and evolutionary psychology have helped me a lot in finding rational explanations for both my reactions and some of the reasons it’s so hard to break away from religion.

Viggo the Carpathian

“But I can’t help but wonder what would be the atheist Bible.”

Now that would be fun to write.

1In the beginning nothing created heaven, and earth–heaven and earth all came well after the beginning. 2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and then a few amino acids…

http://ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

Viggo the Carpathian said,

Now that would be fun to write.

1In the beginning nothing created heaven, and earth–heaven and earth all came well after the beginning. 2 And the earth was void and empty, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and then a few amino acids…

Hmmm… And then the ending could be:

Science and technology continued to advance, and time travel became possible. Man traveled back in time to the beginning and discovered that the Christians had been right all along. The end. 😉

http://religiouscomics.net Jeff

Linda,

I just figured out that to do a blushing smiley face, use this: (mouse-over to see code) 😳

http://ohthethinksyoucanthink.blogspot.com Linda

Thanks, Jeff!

And you say I have too much time on my hands?? 😛 😉

Karen

I was brought up living on the grounds of an IVCF retreat camp (my parents were on staff), going to a very evangelical church, enrolled in sunday school and youth group without ever being offered a choice.

Hi Sarah, and Welcome! My sympathies on your background – yipes. I was very involved in IV during college and even met my (still-fundy) husband there, so I know how much damage the indoctrination can do when you are fed all this stuff as a child before developing the brain skills to do rational thinking.

http://www.ineedtothink.com Seavee

I don’t understand how anyone can claim atheists are being overly aggressive or militant by simply writing books and using the media.

It is also worth noting that I have not see any atheist groups that go knock on doors the way many church groups do.

Richard Wade

I take exception to this notion that all atheists should have to be well versed in Scripture and Christian apologetics to have credibility for their views. That would only be so if they are specifically arguing against a Christian claim.

I don’t argue against Christianity, I argue against believing anything without evidence. The evidence should be provided by the person making the claim. Christians come to me and make claims. I don’t go to them making claims. I just politely say please show me the evidence to back up your claims. All they come back with is arguments for their claims but without evidence. Why the heck should I waste my time reading a bunch of old stuff that has failed to provide any evidence for two thousand years? Apologetics are arguments. Arguments are not evidence. Evidence is evidence.

Sarah H.

Karen: Yeah, it’s odd because in some ways IVCF is one of the more liberal “campus ministries” out there, as compared to CCC and His House, among others. Yet the evangelical focus was so frenzied that I grew up vaguely aware that many of the adults in my life (including my grandparents) were hoping I’d become a missionary some day. I’ve always heard about the poor kids whose parents pressure them to be doctors or lawyers or run the family business…. but this seems even more messed up, in retrospect.

Seavee: Have you seen this? This guy goes to Mormon homes around Salt Lake City and knocks on doors trying to spread the news about atheism and Darwinism. It’s a pretty ballsy way to get a point across, and fun to watch.

Karen

Karen: Yeah, it’s odd because in some ways IVCF is one of the more liberal “campus ministries” out there, as compared to CCC and His House, among others. Yet the evangelical focus was so frenzied that I grew up vaguely aware that many of the adults in my life (including my grandparents) were hoping I’d become a missionary some day. I’ve always heard about the poor kids whose parents pressure them to be doctors or lawyers or run the family business…. but this seems even more messed up, in retrospect.

At my university, the IV group was definitely more on the “intellectual” side, compared to Campus Crusade and a group called BASIC (Brothers and Sisters in Christ) which was for black Christians – yes, the campus Christian groups were (voluntarily) segregated at my public university in California.

I guess they’re more “liberal” but that’s a pretty relative term. For instance, we hosted this guy from an ex-gay ministry at one of our meetings, and the campus gay group protested us. It turned into a big controversy. But we were convinced that homosexuality was caused by sin and could be “reversed” by prayer. So in terms of social issues we were anything but liberal!

I went to a missionary conference called Urbana – you probably know it – so I was headed toward being a missionary myself! Thankfully, I never got the chance. 😉

http://www.ineedtothink.com Seavee

Karen, That was amusing. He might have argued his points a little better but it was definitely funny. I am sure those people are still talking about him.

Sarah H.

Karen:

Yeah, my dad is still on staff with InterVarsity and takes a group to Urbana every year it takes place. The camp I grew up at (one of four major IVCF camps in the US) is devoted to training college students to basically convert other college students to Christianity. There’s a strong focus on the veracity of the Bible and on the consequences of dying without being “saved” that seems to drive so many of the staff workers and students involved into a frenzy of concern for anyone not indoctrinated.

And yes, it’s one of the more liberal college ministries. It’s really awkward whenever I visit my hometown, since while my parents don’t still live on the grounds of the camp, they live nearby and the other families who grew up there are close friends. It was so weird this week to see the kids who lived next door, who are in college now and are all still hardcore Christians. I find myself wondering what made me different… they don’t all go to Christian schools, and I wouldn’t say I’m necessarily the smartest in the bunch…

I feel lucky to have had the chance to really step outside my IVCF upbringing and choose a different path – a choice I’m afraid lots of my friends and my siblings didn’t ever know they had, in a sense.

Karen

It was so weird this week to see the kids who lived next door, who are in college now and are all still hardcore Christians. I find myself wondering what made me different… they don’t all go to Christian schools, and I wouldn’t say I’m necessarily the smartest in the bunch…

Yeah, we still see many of our Christian friends – some we’ve known as far back as high school and college – and they are (mostly) still all hardcore evangelicals, plus a couple backsliders. 😉

What’s interesting is that their kids are all getting ready to go to college, as are mine, and they are all going to Christian colleges, while my kids are applying to public universities and private secular schools. I’m sure they wonder what’s wrong with us!

bernarda

What is a “responsible xian perspective”? LOL. As for “xian writers”, I thought you all you had to do was read the Bible. What makes people think that any of these preachers and theologians understand it better than they do? Wasn’t that Luther’s point? That everyone had direct access and didn’t have to go through a church hierarchy.

Claire

I thought you all you had to do was read the Bible. What makes people think that any of these preachers and theologians understand it better than they do?

I’m going to add this page to my favorites list just for all the little smiley faces. Thanks Jeff.

http://hoverFrog.wordpress.com hoverFrog

There is some intelligent use of imagery in this clip. I particularly like the shot of the Salvation Army delivering food or medicine or somesuch just as The God Delusion is mentioned. This clearly reinforced the idea that religion = good and therefore cannot be a delusion. It’s very well done. It’s like one of those political adverts where they try to portray a candidate as a drunken money squanderer, draft dodger and wife beater without actually saying so.

It’s good news about 75% of college students though. There’s hope for North America after all. 😉

Karen

It’s good news about 75% of college students though. There’s hope for North America after all.

That is good news, but I wonder how long the “college effect” lasts? In the past, people often strayed from religion during their young adult years only to come back to the faith once they were married and had children.

It may be that this newer generation won’t feel the pressure to go back to church once they have children, if we have a more secular society overall and there’s less emphasis on church being the only way to instill morals in kids.

ralph evington

Great post. Mine is not exactly a response to it directly but I wanted to let you and your blog readers know about a group called Snoedig (Gideons backwards) or, more commonly, “The Nieces and Nephews of Auntie Gideon” (pronounced Anti-Gideon). Everytime one of them stays in a hotel they throw away the bible placed there by the Gideons. Note that this is not theft since it is not the property of the hotel, or the Gideons for that matter. If we can get enough poeple to do this, at best Gideons will have to abandon their effort, at worst they are spnding money replenishing the bibles that could have been spent in other attmepts to convert people. Just as Gideons see themselves as doing a charity, so to does Snoedig. Join the Nieces and Nephews of Auntie Gideon! Not only is helping the Atheist revolution but it is alot of fun to do!

Claire

Karen said:

That is good news, but I wonder how long the “college effect” lasts?

You are right about the kids. I had a coworker once that went on and on for two years about how her Catholic upbringing ruined her life and how awful it was. Then she got pregnant and I (jokingly) asked if she was going to raise the kid Catholic, and she said (not jokingly) yes. I pointed out that we had all listened to her for years about how horrible it was and she said “there were good things” and refused to discuss it any more.

http://hoverfrog.wordpress.com hoverFrog

Perhaps it’s peer or parent pressure causing people to return to their religious roots or just a lack of energy to rebel anymore. Having said that the emphasis that a parent places on society’s rules is radically different from a teenager’s.

JeffN

Perhaps it’s the responsibility of having to think and care about someone besides themselves.

AnonyMouse

AAAAAAGH!

So… many… things… WRONG!

I need brain bleach. Now.

Frankly, the only “good guy” I see in this story is the atheist on the airplane who was willing to admit that he was understudied and recognized that he was labeling Christians unfairly.

I didn’t mind the video too badly until they got to the last bit: Christians “falling victim” to atheism, the “dominant secular religion”. UGH! *headdesk*