Ubuntu Linux coming to tablets… starting with the Google Nexus 7

The Nexus 7 tablet may be Google’s flagship Android tablet. But it has a bootloader that can be unlocked, a powerful 1.2 GHz NVIDIA Tegra 3 quad-core processor, and 1GB of RAM. In other words, it should be perfectly capable of running other operating systems.

So it’s not surprising that the folks at Canonical seem to be using Google’s $199 tablet as a reference platform for Ubuntu for tablets.

This is hardly the first time we’ve seen Ubuntu or another Linux distribution running on an ARM-based tablet. Early builds of Arch, Debian, and Ubuntu are available for the HP TouchPad, for instance. And there’s even an app that lets you install Ubuntu on an Android device as if it were an Android app (by loading the system image onto your storage and letting you login using a remote desktop viewer).

It’s not clear exactly what approach Canonical is taking to getting Ubuntu up and running on the Nexus 7, but this is the first time the company behind one of the world’s most popular Linux distributions will be taking such an active approach in porting their software to run on an off-the-shelf device.

It doesn’t seem like the overall goal of the project stops with the Nexus 7 though. Instead, the idea is to use it as an inexpensive reference platform for making Ubuntu a more tablet-friendly operating system.

Maybe one day we’ll see tablets ship with Ubuntu as an alternative to iOS, Android, or Windows RT.

There isn’t really any reason to put Ubuntu on a tablet, when Android is already infinitely more usable, and has a huge app store.

Mister Arkadin

@fewt: I am sorry that you are an idiot. whenever somebody says “infinitely more usable” it means they know nothing about usability. It’s like saying “infinitely more beautiful” or “infinitely more artistic” . It’s really just a badge of moronic laziness about the concept being referenced.

Why do people like @fewt always, and I mean always post to denigrate initiatives they don’t understand? I can’t be sure, but I have to guess that insecurity plays a role. After all, if they really thought these initiatives were useless, they would ignore them, right?

No offense @fewt. I don’t dislike you. it’s more that I feel sorry for you that you are threatened by what you don’t understand rather than wanting to learn. you could have asked why instead of whining.

Anyway, there are vastly many apps for Ubuntu that will never be available for android. that alone is reason to want it on a convenient platform like a tablet.

Another reason is that mini-Linux machines like the mk802 are inconvenient to use in many places where a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and power supply are not readily available. it would be convenient to have Linux in a self-contained package in many situations. For example, wireless LAN auditing.I’ve tried some of the Android packages that purport to replace common Linux tools and they are much more finicky and problematic with respect to updates than the tools they aspire to replace.

http://www.fewt.com/ Fewt

@dcf5c7ecc388feb00249528d2f81c762:disqus “@fewt: I am sorry that you are an idiot. whenever somebody says “infinitely more usable” it means they know nothing about usability. It’s like saying “infinitely more beautiful” or “infinitely more artistic” . It’s really just a badge of moronic laziness about the concept being referenced.”

Hey, thanks for calling me an idiot. For your information, I know plenty about usability as I am the leader of a very successful Linux distribution and one of my areas of focus is on usability improvement.

“Why do people like @fewt always, and I mean always post to denigrate initiatives they don’t understand? I can’t be sure, but I have to guess that insecurity plays a role. After all, if they really thought these initiatives were useless, they would ignore them, right?”

I have to turn the “moronic laziness” and “initiatives they don’t understand” statements around and point them at you, what makes you qualified to argue that I’m not? Some evidence of your success in the area under discussion please.

Insecurity? Hardly. Just more pathetic drivel because I said your gods trash wasn’t a value on an Android slate. I’d argue it is your insecurity that demanded you respond with personal attacks.

“No offense @fewt. I don’t dislike you. it’s more that I feel sorry for you that you are threatened by what you don’t understand rather than wanting to learn. you could have asked why instead of whining.”

No offense, I don’t dislike you either but you seem to be spewing a ton of vitriol over my simple comment. Personal attack after personal attack because I said something you didn’t like. I think you are the one we should feel sorry for, I mean to spew this stuff out with such anger, you must be pretty lonely.

“Anyway, there are vastly many apps for Ubuntu that will never be available for android. that alone is reason to want it on a convenient platform like a tablet.”

Anyway, Ubuntu had its place and that wasn’t on a Tablet. It really won’t be either. Android owns the market, and the platform is for the most part FOSS. There just isn’t any need for anyone to want Ubuntu for these devices – except perhaps tinkerers. There just isn’t any value here. Just about anything you could want or need is available for Android and if it isn’t the SDK is free and open source.

“Another reason is that mini-Linux machines like the mk802 are inconvenient to use in many places where a monitor, keyboard, mouse, and power supply are not readily available. it would be convenient to have Linux in a self-contained package in many situations. For example, wireless LAN auditing.I’ve tried some of the Android packages that purport to replace common Linux tools and they are much more finicky and problematic with respect to updates than the tools they aspire to replace.”

I bet those Wireless LAN auditing problems you had were PEBKAC or ID10-T errors and not problems with the software, based on your comment here today.

By the way, thanks for the personal attacks they made me chuckle a little. Loser.

pipebrain

Ubuntu had its place and that wasn’t on…

Wow. Wowowow. Your bias is INCREDIBLE.

Why are you hating on developers that are actually doing something worthwhile?

Does a Fedora-fork with a OSX GUI slapped over top of it entitle you to badmouth Canonical?

You also have ZERO rebuttal. No substance, nothing quantifiable. You criticize someone about personal attacks and then launch into them yourself.

Your whole argument is: someone else already did it.

It’s absurd.

http://www.fewt.com/ Fewt

Sure I am a little biased. So are you. What makes you think it is worthwhile when they can’t even pay their bills without resorting to adware?

Read my first comment, I didn’t say anything bad about them. So I replied in kind to a personal attack, deal with it.

I see the Fuduntu apologists are out in force today.

My argument is that it is pointless, and that argument stands.

http://rationaldreaming.com/ Mike

@Fewt: Your initial comment was unnecessarily troll-like, so it’s not surprise that someone rose to the bait, after which you responded in kind (and practically confirmed that your first comment was a troll).

http://www.fewt.com/ Fewt

Oh you guys are so full of it. /facepalm

Revitar

You reap what you sow.
Either suck it up or learn from your mistakes

http://www.fewt.com/ Fewt

Ok so I post my opinion and then get attacked by a bunch of mental midgets who are so dense that they actually think I am getting schooled. Classic.

CyberGusa

It is sad but people defend what they want to believe and often over react and do the proverbial, “shoot the messenger” routine.

Though eventually there is likely to be a OS that will blur the lines between desktop and tablet. It’s just for now it’s more Jekyll and Hyde solutions as it’s no simple matter to just change how a OS is optimized to be used or how the apps that run on the OS are also optimized.

Though, they do need to start somewhere and a low cost tablet is not a terrible place to start… even if not optimal, but people should keep expectations low as this won’t happen overnight and we may still be years from a proper desktop Linux distro making it in the tablet market.

Especially, if they insist on using existing distros instead of starting fresh and build something actually designed for both usages from the ground up.

http://www.fuduntu.org/ Fewt

Eventually we’ll just stop posting our opinions and while they will have “won” everyone else will lose because they will have chased off all of the people with the knowledge and experience that they simply don’t have.

It does seem much like a Jekyll and Hyde solution. One of the benefits that Android and also iOS bring over Ubuntu or any other desktop platform is that they were designed from day 1 for touch.

We’ve seen all sorts of tablet / phone / pda desktop os ports over the years especially over in the Windows world with the XP tablets from the early 2000s, all the way back to GRID tablets running Windows 3. None of them were a success because the operating system wasn’t designed from the ground up for a tablet.

Things like task management, control panel interfaces, and other things become very difficult to use as they are optimized for a mouse and not a finger.

I think we’ll see Windows 8 fail here also because it makes the same mistake – it is a desktop OS with a touch menu, but under the hood it’s still a desktop OS.

We haven’t even started talking about apps, there really aren’t many apps out there for the (non Android) Linux platform that are optimized for touch. It will take years for the community to collectively update all of these interfaces. Canonical simply doesn’t have the manpower to do it themselves.

CyberGusa

“I think we’ll see Windows 8 fail here also because it makes the same
mistake – it is a desktop OS with a touch menu, but under the hood it’s
still a desktop OS.”

It’s definitely a gamble, but it’s more complicated with Windows 8. Since the Modern UI is also different under the hood and is more literally a Jekyll & Hyde setup.

The modern UI is designed differently from the NT Kernel on up from traditional Windows. While also not really intended just for tablets, it is very well optimized for tablet usage.

It’s just the the Traditional desktop is still there for legacy support and to deal with usages that the Modern UI isn’t yet optimized to handle as well. Since MS traditional user base won’t be giving up their old desktops any time soon.

Something like having Ubuntu work as the desktop mode for Android would be a similar comparison and is something Google/Canonical are working on. Since the re-merged Kernel makes it technically possible, though of course still easier said than done.

Such schizoid solutions aren’t very ideal but they’re workable and that’s at least a bit more than present attempts to directly turn any OS into a all in one.

inkflow

I’m sorry but I have to agree with Mister Arkadin (although I don’t think calling you an idiot is in place) – there is simply no reason to disqualify Ubuntu as a tablet OS exactly like there is no reason to disqualify Android as a desktop OS. I have no reason to believe they can’t make the migration.

Just to prove this point – I’m writing this comment from a Playbook which runs a QNX OS – the same OS runs on routers, missiles, car entertainment systems and desktops.

I think your opinion comes from your assumption that tablets and desktops/laptops are two totally different systems. My assumption is that the border between tablets and desktops/laptops will get blurred as the time will pass.

floriano

uhm tegra3 hasn’t video drivers for linux

http://metin2wiki.ru CSRedRat

NVidea has promised to work on open source drivers for tegra after Linus f*ck.

I hope they’re not making Unity some sort of mashed up desktop/tablet UI. Right now, it looks like it’ll be as useful as running Windows 7 on a tablet. In the future, Unity may degenerate into using Android on a desktop with a mouse and keyboard.

If the Unity name implies a single UI for touch and traditional input then I don’t think that’s going to succeed. Microsoft’s separate and switchable interface is probably a better way to go but we’ll see how that goes in the next year.

mbramwel

wow, what anger in all of these posts.

I support RHEL for a living. I also have lots of tablets and mk802 type devices. I have to agree that Linux would be a tough sell on tablets. Linux is very keyboard/mouse-centric with its current apps, Android is very pointer-centric. I already have remote desktop to a Linux machine on my tablet and it is very difficult to use.

For those that think Linux on a tablet would be great, I suggest giving it a try for a day (already possible via remote desktop). Linux in its current form would be very difficult to use. None of the angry people that have posted so far have said they have actually tried it.

At the very least, all of the apps would have to be rewritten to have LARGE icons (for fat fingered pointing) and made to work on a small screen.

http://www.fewt.com/ Fewt

“wow, what anger in all of these posts.”

Typical really. When anyone speaks poorly of Ubuntu at all they come out of the woodwork in defense, and by woodwork I mean their mothers basements and in defense I mean filling the discussions with herp derp. XD

I’m with you, it just isn’t a good fit for the footprint. It didn’t work when they tried to put netbook remix on netbooks (though that was actually OK) and it really doesn’t work when they try to bolt it on a tablet.

I’ve been in the space a long time, almost 17 years and had hands on with just about every platform imaginable. Android is better and it’s in the space today. It will be an uphill battle by a company already struggling to stay afloat, it doesn’t makes sense to try to compete here when they are already broke.

Your suggestion is a great one, using something like pocket cloud they can demo it so they can see for themselves that it doesn’t fit.

They won’t do that though, it’s easier to spew vitriol at those that actually do work in the space. XD

inkflow

A good implementation of the OS version for tablets will not require a rewrite of the applications. This is similar to Apple’s approach which requires every site to be rewritten in order to support the iPad properly. However, if you ever used a Playbook for a long period you’ll know that the truth is that nothing has to be rewritten.

Your assumption that the icons will be too small is valid only for up to 7″ displays where you can’t zoom-in or anything like it. BTW, there is nothing wrong with a 12″ tablet and I can certainly see some uses for 24″ tablets…

CyberGusa

Sorry but desktop apps do need to be optimized for tablet usage if you want a proper porting.

You may get away with some things but desktop apps are optimized for desktop usage. They don’t scale well, they’re mainly optimized to be interacted with a keyboard and mouse, and they’re not made to be processor and energy efficient like mobile apps.

The two main things that have kept desktop OS from being successful on mobile devices is first required too much resources, only recently has the average mobile device gotten powerful enough to properly be able to run desktop software, and second is how they are optimized doesn’t work well with small screens and touch only UI,

Now I’ve used a Playbook too, along with other tablets, and despite your opinion it doesn’t change any of the above. The Playbook OS is like other mobile OS optimized for mobile tablet usage. Gesture controls, how apps are shown one at a time, etc.

The browser does handle pretty well but it doesn’t change the need for tablet optimization. If work around solutions like the zoom feature, many sites would be unusable for reasons like improper scaling, etc. for tablet usage.

While I also see nothing wrong with a 12″ tablet, other than being less portable, there are people who find that too small and there are people who also find it too large… It depends on what they intend to use it for and mobile usage pushes small, while desktop usage is for bigger.

Penn Taylor

“They don’t scale well, they’re mainly optimized to be interacted with a keyboard and mouse, and they’re not made to be processor and energy efficient like mobile apps.”

I’m with you on your second point in that sentence: desktop apps are usually optimized for keyboard and mouse input, *because this is what has defined the desktop environment since 1984*. I’m not entirely sold on the other two points, because those are tied to different design decisions, not simply the fact that an application is running on a desktop.

CyberGusa

There’s a few reasons why the other points are valid…

Desktop OS and apps were designed for systems that aren’t configured in the same way as tablets.

For most desktops, higher resolution means larger screens but for tablets they usually mean just higher PPI.

Most desktop OS and apps have many presets and not all of them are easily user adjustable. So things like scaling can significantly effect usability.

Use of image for icons, skins, etc. don’t allow for a dynamic range of uses because images can’t be auto scaled like vector graphics and desktops are harder to update than mobile OS, especially for apps no longer actively maintained.

For performance, mind that most of these tablets are only starting to reach the performance range of what most would consider netbook performance range.

One of the many reasons why desktop Linux hasn’t been used widely on mobile devices is because they ran too slowly and not everything would work because the limited hardware wouldn’t support everything.

It’s also a factor that both the desktop and apps have to be optimized for mobile usage in order to allow for things like proper idling to save power.

ARM makes more use on average of multiple processors to compensate for the lack of processing power but most desktop apps have yet to be properly optimized to properly utilize multiple processors.

So it’s not simply the fact that an application is running on a desktop but multiple factors that combine to make it hard to run on systems other than they were originally designed for, and there are more reasons than I listed.

Penn Taylor

What I was objecting to (and not terribly strenuously either, if you re-read my original reply) was your characterization that these are fundamental characteristics of desktop *apps*. In your reply, you mix app and OS in order to justify those points. My point is that design for keyboard and mouse is definitely baked into most apps — that is, the *application code* assumes these inputs (or their equivalents). The other two things are far more controlled by the UI toolkit and the OS. If Canonical (or anyone else) provided binary-compatible versions of popular UI toolkits that properly handled scaling, as well as underlying OS pieces that better handle P-states and scheduling for a tablet environment, many desktop apps would be fine on a tablet except for the question of expecting keyboard and mouse input.

As for scaling in particular, I think it’s necessary to mention the iOS strategy before calling out “desktop apps” as being scaling offenders. When the newest iPad came out there were only a handful of applications that could immediately make use of the higher pixel density on the new screen. Why? Because Apple’s UI toolkit doesn’t do the scaling for you. Apple’s solution (as I understand it, and perhaps I’m mistaken) has been to require developers to provide UI variants for each and every screen size and aspect ratio supported by iOS. That turns out to be a small set, so there haven’t been howls of discontent. Contrast that to the Android world in which there are dozens of screen sizes and aspect ratios. Some UI toolkits do a good job with scaling. Qt comes to mind. Most don’t, and that includes many used to build mobile apps.

CyberGusa

“The other two things are far more controlled by the UI toolkit and the OS.”

No, you’re not getting the point. Sure, most of the power consumption is handled by the OS/System. However, the OS can only control so much but unless the apps work with it then it will always be handicapped!

Desktop apps aren’t designed to be aware of power consumption like mobile apps. Take a photo app with geo tagging for example, when power gets low it will either offer or automatically switch off the GPS to conserve power.

For desktop apps there’s usually no direct APIs available to give that functionality.

Features like always connected standby are generally not what desktop apps are designed to work with for example. So you either save power and have little to nothing running or keep the system working and consuming power.

This is why apps power optimization is also important, otherwise the OS will be handicapped by how much it can do. Mind also that one size fits all generic power state responses isn’t always ideal for how all apps operate.

Even mobile apps don’t do this perfectly and they’re actually designed for this type of usage.

Mind also that the battery capacity in these mobile devices are typically much smaller than you’d find in laptops. So if they have to work harder to run desktop OS and apps then the run times are going to get significantly shorter.

For scaling, issues include no consistent scaling of apps and tons of legacy apps that scale according to resolution instead of screen size.

You could customize to an extent but many desktop apps aren’t that customizable.

You’re points on Apple are true but the situation for desktop on mobile devices is they will be put on pretty much the same devices as Android is now.

Even for Android, the hardware fragmentation often requires the OS to be optimized for a given device and not all devices are that friendly to Open Source or even provide the level of performance and standards support to allow running of desktop apps.

All of which is harder to support with desktop OS.

Mind also both the desktop OS and desktop apps are usually much larger than mobile apps. So you have to factor taking up more space and memory resources on average.

I understand why you think the other factors aren’t too much of a concern but even small problems can become compounded and add to each other, which is the primary point I’m making.

inkflow

1. A stylus pen will solve you any mouse problem.
2. Virtual keyboard can easily replace a hardware keyboard.

Of course it is much easier to use a regular mouse/keyboard when you need a long session will of work. But then again nothing prevents you from using a keyboard/mouse with your tablet.

As for optimizing applications for tablets then:

1. Almost no tablet application use any kind of measure to reduce power consumption. Most applications are interactive which means you have to respond immediately to requests but most of the time you are idle (and don’t consume much resources anyway – even not on a desktop).

2. Setting a process into an idle state when it’s not in focus is currently an unneeded feature of ios and android. It is simply not a big issue if processes keep on running even if they are out of focus – how do I know that? I’m running my Playbook using settings which keep all processes running even when they are not in focus – in reality the battery penalty is not a big deal. The truth is that tablets have big enough batteries. Power consumption is mostly an issue of phones and new models of phones are considerably better in this respect.

CyberGusa

“1. A stylus pen will solve you any mouse problem.”

No, it will definitely help but not everything is just as good with a pen as with a mouse and vice versa. It’s a different tool and has it’s own strength and weaknesses.

Besides, neither a pen or mouse changes the other issues that compound the potential problems. Such as a tiny menu is still tiny and even a mouse or pen have limits to accuracy. Never mind how careful the user has to be to hit the right spot!

“2. Virtual keyboard can easily replace a hardware keyboard.”

More like an exaggeration… Virtual keyboards don’t provide tactile feedback, and make it harder to use the tablet anyway, since a virtual keyboard needs screen space that reduces the space to view what you are typing and where!

Many times you would end up typing something and have what you’re typing covered up by the virtual keyboard. Never mind other uses for a keyboard…

Though, it is better than nothing and can be more useful when needing to type something quick on the go but for real type related work, especially for prolonged periods, nothing yet replaces a physical keyboard and is one of the reasons why a keyboard is one of the most popular accessories bought for tablets!

Even for the Playbook, the keyboard is a very popular accessory!

“1. Almost no tablet application use any kind of measure to reduce power consumption.”

Having too many apps/processes working at the same time not only can bog down performance of the device but cause it to use up power much more quickly.

Since most mobile OS can’t juggle resources that well, they instead limit multi-tasking to compensate but even then it’s one of the reason for the multitude of power management apps.

ARM devices rely heavily on idling as much as possible to reduce power consumption. It’s why a device can range from a few hours to all day usage depending on how it is used!

“2. Setting a process into an idle state when it’s not in focus is currently an unneeded feature of ios and android.”

The Playbook handles multi-tasking really well but it’s not representative of all devices! Besides, even for the Playbook, run time varies according to how heavily you use it and the difference can be minutes to hours.

So just because the Playbook can handle multi-tasking doesn’t mean not doing so doesn’t give you the benefit of longer run time, especially when many are trying to push for longer than 10 hours.

Never mind we’re comparing to desktop apps, which are used to having processes running all the time and that would prevent even normal idling!

While ARM devices can idle to mw power range, but desktops typically stay in multiple watt range and is more a low power usage rather than actual idling most of the time.

ARM devices can also shut off components and still run! While a typical PC never really shuts off anything. Features like Nvidia Optimus are usually the closest PC’s get to that kind of feature.

But there are many such features in mobile devices that desktop power management never had to deal with before!

So even if we forget about all the trouble the UI optimization alone would induce, there’s plenty under the hood stuff they also need to address.

http://www.fuduntu.org/ Fewt

“1. Almost no tablet application use any kind of measure to reduce power consumption. Most applications are interactive which means you have to respond immediately to requests but most of the time you are idle (and don’t consume much resources anyway – even not on a desktop).”

This is completely untrue. Only bad applications written by amateur developers behave this way. Most applications are designed to idle on wait so they aren’t absorbing more processing resources than absolutely necessary. They also perform garbage collection to ensure they aren’t using more memory than required during execution.

“2. Setting a process into an idle state when it’s not in focus is currently an unneeded feature of ios and android. It is simply not a big issue if processes keep on running even if they are out of focus – how do I know that? I’m running my Playbook using settings which keep all processes running even when they are not in focus – in reality the battery penalty is not a big deal. The truth is that tablets have big enough batteries.”

There is a BIG difference between a process running and going idle and a process no longer running at all. If all processes acted the way you described those big batteries wouldn’t last more than an hour or two at best.

Penn Taylor

“Most [tablet (implied)] applications are designed to idle on wait so they aren’t absorbing more processing resources than absolutely necessary. They also perform garbage collection to ensure they aren’t using more memory than required during execution.”

Most applications everywhere on all OSes idle on wait unless they have background tasks sitting on worker threads, so I’m not really sure what you mean, unless you’re referring to Android’s Activity Lifecycle. The difference between desktop and mobile in that case is that Android lets you know when you’ve been disconnected from the windowmanager, so you can pause your graphics loop, if you have one. Also, Android applications are supposed to be written so they can be killed and resumed at any time. The application doesn’t control that “idle” behavior though; the OS does.

As for garbage collection, I’m only aware of two specific instances on Android in which application developers are encouraged to manually call garbage collection, and going into an idle state isn’t one of them. Dalvik handles that sort of garbage collection automatically. That’s no different from Java’s garbage collection in desktop applications, except that Java’s gc implementation maintains a lot more heuristic information, so in theory it is more robust.

http://www.fuduntu.org/ Fewt

“Most applications everywhere on all OSes idle on wait unless they have background tasks sitting on worker threads, so I’m not really sure what you mean, unless you’re referring to Android’s Activity Lifecycle. The difference between desktop and mobile in that case is that Android lets you know when you’ve been disconnected from the windowmanager, so you can pause your graphics loop, if you have one. Also, Android applications are supposed to be written so they can be killed and resumed at any time. The application doesn’t control that “idle” behavior though; the OS does.”

That was my point. Apps aren’t in a race condition when in the background, which seemed like the implication. The application can control idle behavior within the scope of the applications functions.

“As for garbage collection, I’m only aware of two specific instances on Android in which application developers are encouraged to manually call garbage collection, and going into an idle state isn’t one of them. Dalvik handles that sort of garbage collection automatically. That’s no different from Java’s garbage collection in desktop applications, except that Java’s gc implementation maintains a lot more heuristic information, so in theory it is more robust.”

I wasn’t intending to imply GC had anything to do with idle behavior, just implying that good applications destroy objects and allow GC to clean house.

Kenov

I don’t like Unity, since it’s per definition too “hungry” for it’s own good.
A tweaked XFCE like desktop with some compiz flair seems more like a decent compromise between snazzy looks and low resource functionality

http://soltesza.wordpress.com/ sola

I think the Ubuntu for Android approach would make much more sense for tablets than the standalone Ubuntu approach.

The video immediately shows some weaknesses.

The Unity bar is WAY to small to be used for touch. They should have at least made them bigger for a video.

When the browser appears, everything is impossibly small for touch input.

http://metin2wiki.ru CSRedRat

Good news!

http://www.facebook.com/alfred.soyemi.9 Alfred Soyemi

Load of crap, including the embeded video. What a joke

http://twitter.com/PengPod Neal Peacock

Plasma has pretty good support for a tablet friendly Linux experience. It is one of the packages available on the PengPod Linux tablets. Taking pre-orders now through http://www.indiegogo.com/pengpod