Trouble logging in?If you can't remember your password or are having trouble logging in, you will have to reset your password. If you have trouble resetting your password (for example, if you lost access to the original email address), please do not start posting with a new account, as this is against the forum rules. If you create a temporary account, please contact us right away via Forum Support, and send us any information you can about your original account, such as the account name and any email address that may have been associated with it.

Looks like a calm before the storm. In this case, the episode starts out with the masters speaking about their involvement in the 4th Grail War. Watching Kirei killing Iri by strangulation is just cruel (feels no different than Kariya doing that to Aoi). Only Kirei realizes the true purpose of the Grail and relishes in defeating Kiritsugu at all costs. Next episode will be a showdown between the King of Conquerors vs. the King of Heroes.

Rider and Waver have the feel good angle of this story. They're really the only ones. Some nice development for the two as Waver's insecurity regarding his magus-bloodline seems to be melting away, and why shouldn't it? Who cares what the dumb magi think if you've got one of the greatest commanders in history as your friend, considering you an equal?

As I would have predicted from the start, looks like that partnership will end in disaster next episode.. Oh well, was good while it lasted.

Cool. Looks like we have another character study episode this time around.

It's always amusing to see how Kirei comes off as a much more sympathetic character than Kiritsugu, but then I guess that was the point of Kiritsugu's character in the first place.

But of course, it was the Waver x Rider moments that really stood out in the episode. All that manly friendship has a way of making the heart feel all giddy.

As for the scene with Irisviel in the end:

Spoiler for guess:

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the mountain of corpses there represents all the failed homunculi that were produced before her. I mean, manufacturing homunculi than can serve as vessels for the grail can't be a 100% thing, right?

Whatever the case, next episode is the long awaited Rider vs. Archer battle. Things are starting to heat up considerably.

__________________

"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."

oh man, Kotomine just choking Irisviel like that. Guess the series has to make sure all the females get destroyed lol.

Waver had some good moments. Rider is a such a bro.
Only thing that I found strange is Waver's use of the 3 command spells, I know with 'vague' open commands like that, the commend spells serve to reinforce the servant's actions in what they do, ect. But I though those kind of commands won't have any affect if the one giving the command is no longer the master.

oh man, Kotomine just choking Irisviel like that. Guess the series has to make sure all the females get destroyed lol.

Waver had some good moments. Rider is a such a bro.
Only thing that I found strange is Waver's use of the 3 command spells, I know with 'vague' open commands like that, the commend spells serve to reinforce the servant's actions in what they do, ect. But I though those kind of commands won't have any affect if the one giving the command is no longer the master.

Well, it wasn't stated explicitly but that was exactly Waver's intention.

He meant those commands in a symbolic way while revoking his right as Rider's master.

Waver found himself useless and unworthy to fight beside Rider. So he tried to let him free.

oh man, Kotomine just choking Irisviel like that. Guess the series has to make sure all the females get destroyed lol.

Waver had some good moments. Rider is a such a bro.
Only thing that I found strange is Waver's use of the 3 command spells, I know with 'vague' open commands like that, the commend spells serve to reinforce the servant's actions in what they do, ect. But I though those kind of commands won't have any affect if the one giving the command is no longer the master.

Waver intentionally used up the command spells because he felt he could not continue in this war. He realized how naive and unprepared he was - his tricks failed even on a normal old man. He basically just let Rider to fight the war as he wished.

The effects of command spells would not just disappear after he used them up. But the spells could not have the intended effects because of how vague and improbable they were.

Fantastic episode. Waver and Rider scenes are just too good. So next episode will probably be the showdown of the overpowered servants. As a watcher who has no novel background I'm really looking forward to that.

Oh and Irisviel's scenes at the end. That's a really spooky foreshadowing for the true nature of the grail.

__________________

Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls' souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!

I thought episode 20 was to be the last calm before the storm one, but it turns out there was still another opportunity to breath before the final battles. Which is just as well, seeing as this was as good a setup to a story's climax as it gets. So much so that the week(s) of waiting to come will be particularly agonizing.

Waver and Rider scenes were heartwarming as usual, showing how Urobuchi can also write feel good stories when he wants to. It just doesn't happen very often, of course. And man, here I thought Kiritsugu and Saber were finally going to break the ice a little due to their shared concern for Irisviel, but as it turns out they're going into the final battle with as strained a relationship as ever. Not a very promising or hopeful prelude to the end for our team of protagonists.

Still, as fun as it was to catch up with those characters, to me this episode was really about Kirei, whose scenes absolutely stole the show. And, accordingly, Jouji Nakata brought his A-game. Just like last episode was largely Kariya's episode and his character reached a very critical point in his life in it, Kirei too has come to an important crossroad in his in this one.

As Irisviel said, Kiritsugu saw through to Kirei from the start, which is why he fears him so. Right in the very first episode, Kiritsugu correctly surmised: "This man has never experienced passion in his entire life. He doesn't believe in anything." Kirei, however, heavily misjudged Kiritsugu, imagining him to be just like him, empty and lost, because of their very similar backgrounds. He thus made Kiritsugu into a source of hope for himself, that he wasn't alone in his suffering, that he too might find an answer and direction in life, as Kiritsugu had seemingly found his upon joining the Einzberns.

Yet, as it turns out, Kiritsugu's similarities to Kirei were all a facade. He puts on an external persona similar to that of Kirei's, but that's just so he can repress his vulnerabilities and be a more effective fighter. Internally, Kiritsugu is actually quite driven by a great purpose, as well as very much capable of passion and joy. So much so, in fact, that he has to suppress his emotions so as to not be crushed by them. As such, now that he's cognizant of Emiya Kiritsugu's true nature, Kirei has realized that the hopes he had placed on him were all false. Delusions and wishful thinking, which have now been promptly shattered by Irisviel's revelations. And thus, just like that, his prior desire to meet and question Kiritsugu becomes, instead, a desire to crush his hopes in return.

To Kirei, Kiritsugu's way of life must be the ultimate insult. Not only does he merely play at being outwardly similar to Kirei because it serves his purpose, he also discards his own happiness, something Kirei has never been able to find for himself, for the sake of pursuing a laughably childish ideal. Just like Kariya loathed Tokiomi for discarding the things Kariya himself had always wanted but could not have, Kirei too now feels the same towards Kiritsugu, a man who has the nerve to discard that which Kirei cannot hope to find. And thus, even though he still can't think of a wish for the Grail, he now has a reason to fight - to crush that same Grail alongside Kiritsugu's own wishes and hopes.

And that all makes for the perfect final piece of development of our main rivalry in the show. It's rather amazing to me how skillfully those two have been juxtaposed despite them having never even met each other. The build up is all there and it's absolutely stellar, so all that's left now is for their climatic showdown to take place. Can't wait.

But before that, it seems we'll finally get our King of Conquerors vs King of Heroes encounter in the next episode. That one sounds quite promising as well. In the BD version of episode 12, Gilgamesh spoke of how he is fond of watching the grief and despair of "individuals who harbor grand ambitions, not knowing they aren't fit for the task." Well, our friend Rider certainly fits the bill, so he better be prepared for the possibility of receiving some Urobuchi approved despair from Goldy.

Last but not least, alas poor Iri. All the world's evil indeed. Curse you right back, Diarmuid!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeroz

apparently it will be on a hiatus next week, with 2 eps on the following weekend

Huh. If it had been a hiatus and then simply following the rest of the episodes weekly I would have raged, but if they're making up for it with 2 episodes at once later, then it evens itself out enough that I should be able to endure it without much additional trouble.

Episode 22 is a calm before the storm indeed, with Rider's fight and the final battle coming up in three episodes. And there had to be a hiatus...

My favourite part of this episode has to be Waver and Rider interacting. The music played when Waver gave away his Command Seals, Rider's rather big smile made the scene all the more heartwarming. I've enjoyed their antics, their dynamics throughout the series, and I can't help feeling a bit down at the fact that it will all end.

Another scene that stood out for me was the one with Iri at the end. It was quite sad and solemn at first, from the mountain of homunculi to Illya's nightmare, and when Iri was dressed in black and smiling, the atmosphere was plain eerie, all the more so with a music box version of Let The Stars Fall Down in the background.

Well, Urobuchi, bring on the despair! Looking forward to a spectacular finale.

command spells are sources of mana or serve to reinforce it. that's how orders from command spells which are normally impossible to do by the servant can be done, because the command spells powers up the servant.

anyway, servants dont disappear right away just because they lose their masters. that is assuming they saved up alot of prana. which rider did, he has been resting alot. on the other hand if rider was completely drained and waver no longer supplies him prana as master, then rider will disappear.

I'm going to take a wild guess and say that the mountain of corpses there represents all the failed homunculi that were produced before her. I mean, manufacturing homunculi than can serve as vessels for the grail can't be a 100% thing, right?

Spoiler for Irisviel corpses:

I'm pretty sure the drama CD released with the blu ray DVD explains a bit more. Jubstacheit (Acht) was telling Kiritsugu how Irisviel was the first successful model of Justeaze, I believe. Meaning he probably made a lot more models before but they were all failures. He also made a bet with Kiritsugu and said that if Irisviel doesn't pass the test to prove that she is a successful homunculus and dies, he can simply make another model.

But before that, it seems we'll finally get our King of Conquerors vs King of Heroes encounter in the next episode. That one sounds quite promising as well. In the BD version of episode 12, Gilgamesh spoke of how he is fond of watching the grief and despair of "individuals who harbor grand ambitions, not knowing they aren't fit for the task." Well, our friend Rider certainly fits the bill, so he better be prepared for the possibility of receiving some Urobuchi approved despair from Goldy.

I could be wrong but I actually don't expect that to happen. I mean don't get me wrong I am pretty positive Gil will be the ultimate victor of the Rider VS Gil battle (as much as I hate to admit it).

But I have a feeling Gil will come to the conclusion that Rider is a worthy opponent and while there might be defeat it might not actually end in despair.

Of all the characters Rider & Waver's development has been completely positive. Even in the end I expect it to stay that way.

Well I will be disappointed if I am wrong, because who wants to see Rider/Waver suffer?