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Just because Howard. Thats as good a answer as any. I think it has to do more with tradition, help, last choice grounds, nothing left in the trial game for the little dogs, not sizewise. I personaly think the derbies are a dying stake and the qual is yesterday's derby, especially with OH , the stake in with hunt tests, in our neck of the woods pros dominate the derby when most are on Fridays. The quals are on Saturday with much bigger enteries. Older derby dogs can handle triples with ease. A derby career really starts at about 18 months. So just because.

As I often do, I find myself here agreeing with Earl. Why no triples? "Just because." Also, because the more birds you add, the greater the tendency is to have tight, technical tests, which reward the trained, lined response.

I got my start in FT in derby in 1999 and remember traveling all across the country and competing other amateurs. Now, amateur handlers in the derby are few and far between. I wish that clubs devoted more resources - judges, grounds, and help to the derby.

I judge Derby and Qual and have never judged an all age. Reason, I can set up a test where I can just watch dogs work without worrying about cutting the numbers down. Why a triple when a double done properly can do the same thing. I have always felt a derby is more about natural ability than trained ability. Even if you brought all dogs back which is my goal you can tell who's in the ribbons after the 2nd series. When I start I hope all dogs pick up the birds even though some will do it much better than others.

O/H derbies

Why not go with owner-handler derbies? I think it would encourage more newbies to play the game, and encourage more new people to compete, with no pros and their "trained" dogs to deal with. No need for triples, retired guns, etc. Maybe even save the Derby as a stake!

It would not bother me one bit to run or judge a wide open triple in the derby, where the guns are very visible to the dogs on their way to the marks. I have seen plenty of derby marks that were retired to ealier until the dog almost trips over the guns. If I had a big field of derby dogs I was judging and the field was very close after 3 series would like to throw a good triple to find the best markers. Lets be real lots of times a hooked gun is the difference between green and blue. I know as a competitor I would much rather run a very tough setup and fail than hook a gun on one of eight marks and that's the only difference between the top five dogs. Would not bother me to see a triple in the first series and last. You know each of us has our own judging styles and that is what keeps our sport fresh. If everyone did the same thing all the time you might as well go play bingo. JMHO Chad

Why not go with owner-handler derbies? I think it would encourage more newbies to play the game, and encourage more new people to compete, with no pros and their "trained" dogs to deal with. No need for triples, retired guns, etc. Maybe even save the Derby as a stake!

Some clubs can barely put on a derby now. Many of those handlers you are speaking of are in the HT game these days...

Why not go with owner-handler derbies? I think it would encourage more newbies to play the game, and encourage more new people to compete, with no pros and their "trained" dogs to deal with. No need for triples, retired guns, etc. Maybe even save the Derby as a stake!

I think it's a great idea,but, the pros wouldn't. Somehow Wayne, the Pros have always piggybacked the derby with the open. Don't get it but think about it OH Quals, OH Derbies.

The derby can be an event to grow the sport with new people and still reward the best marking dogs and I think keeping it as doubles will help foster that.

I've only run a few derbies but I'd like to see the double stay the norm. It's pretty intimidating for a newbie to run one as it is. As has been discussed, throw in a triple becoming the norm and not only are you rewarding the more trained and conditioned dog but also that more experienced handler quite a bit - and I think unneccessarily so. I'm not saying the more experienced handler and trained dog shouldn't have an advantage in a derby - but I think with a properly placed double that they already will and that the newer less experienced handler will be more likely to train for, pay the $80 and try, and hopefully train more and try again if the expectation is it will be doubles.

I'd much prefer to see a retired gun in a derby than a triple when circumstances (big entry field, time, grounds etc.) dictate or allow. I think well placed marks that can provide answers and separation are out of sight to the dog for either a good amount or at various intervals of their time enroute to AOF as it is.