Europe urged to embrace GM foods

Hellmutt's got a point. We can't just keep multiplying. I don't know that I like forced population controll done secretly though.

Not to go too far off topic but population control could, at some point, become a real issue. Too many people, and not enough food = some people are
going to starve. One solution is to decide as a society and as a world that we will limit the family size at such a time when it becomes necessary to
prevent overpopulation. I didn't say stop having children, we need children to survive, just put a conscious limit on it, and realize it is for the
good of all. And I'm not saying something nutty like kill off the excess children if you have triplets or something, just keep in mind the bigger
picture, and leave it at triplets. And really, anyone on this earth can be your "family." They may not be family by blood, they may not even be
the same color, or be from the same part of the world as you, but by friendship, love, respect, companionship, etc they can be your family. And that
is the family that we really need to push for here, that big family that spans the entire globe.

There are several different types of controls for human populations, including the ever-popular war, as well as plagues, pestilence, famine and the
occasional Horseman of the Apocalypse.

Humans will, as long as we exist, continue to multiply like crazed weasels (who controls the weasels themselves, anyway?). That's a given.

The question is by what means and how quickly humans will die.

As it turns out, there's only one way to enter the world, and millions of ways to leave it.

So far the system is working, believe it or not.

Genuine GM Parts

I used to pooh-pooh the claims of anti-GM food activists as the propaganda of economic warfare -- which much of it is -- but am coming to understand
and agree with some of the concerns.

Food stocks are vital to the health and well-being of humans everywhere. They should not be tampered with casually.

Unless I am grossly misinformed, GM foods are not subjected to the kinds of health-consequence testing that drugs are, even though relatively few
people take drugs, and everyone eats food.

The kinds of things GM foods are engineered to do, such as producing toxic chemicals to ward off insects, must have consequences in humans,
particularly after years of consumption.

It would be inexcusably irresponsible to unleash GM foods on people that are not thoroughly tested in extensive, independently-monitored long-term
trials on large test groups.

Antisocial Experiment

As things stand, these test groups seem to consist primarily of the population as a whole, with products being deployed long before their chronic
effects can be studied, and yes, I do have a problem with that.

GM foods have, as best I can tell, been generally managed with varying reasonable degrees of care, but I am concerned that such care is not
necessarily in proportion to the risks involved with respect to human health, ecosystems in which GM foods are grown and the potentially disastrous
consequences of error or misconduct leading to widespread injury or death of consumers if GM food producers should make so much as one simple
mistake out of billions of possible mistakes when designing and deploying foods.

It's excellent technology, and I am all for exploiting the benefits it can offer, but I urge caution and highly conservative policies when it comes
to GM foods.

Btw, because Switzerland is not in the EU they were allowed to make this decision for themselves. Otherwise this would have been decided for them in
Brussels.

If only the world was really that simple!

In actual fact economics made the decision for them. Over 90% of swiss trade is with the EU (which surrounds it on all sides). If the Swiss wish to
trade with the EU it has to meet EU regulations which currently do not allow for Gm products. There choice was either use non-GM foods and sell to
the EU or grow GM foods but have no market for them. In effect the choice was made in brussels for them.

This is not just true of the Swiss, all non Eu countries that rely on trade with the EU (e.g. Norway, Morrocco, Russia etc) as a major source of
income are finding that they are having to meet EU regulations and rules to gain access to the markets. The downside is that because they are not
part of the EU they have no say in what those rules are!

I am completely against GM crops in all it's forms we just don't have the science to know the consequences.

The basics as I understand them is to find an insect/bug resistant to pesticides (eg roundup) the use a dna virus to implant the relevent dna from
that into the dna of the seed/plant this is done mostly from pot luck and experimentation.

It's been shown gm crops can and do infect other plant's around them and we can't be 100% sure what the consequences are apart from the ridiculous
patent issues which mean's those plants now belong to the patent holder and if they are on your land you're getting sued.

What happen's if they let loose the seed termination plants they are working on and they spread to other species making the seed's useless.

I haven't even touched on the possible health implication's as we just don't and can't know.

Gm is bad as far as I'm concerned It's like a child playing with matches.

Genetically Modified foods right now as it stands are much too primitive to be let loose into the biosphere. If we were to use
this technology to conduct trials and also to produce usable crops then I would
not be opposed to that at all. Genetically modified humans is another matter and should be up to the individual to take that risk. There is caution
then there is "bio-ludditism". We should not throw caution to the wind but we mustn't get caught up in dogmatic views on GMO's saying it's
"Playing God" or "Messing with Mother Nature". That smells like Faith to me and not Science at all. Any Technology has it's benefits and
drawbacks. We need to study GMO's more before we release it into the wild.

On the other hand if we could somehow Engineer some plants to grow(and possibly Terraform) on Mars or Titan then that would be fantastic!

Also making crops drought and locust resistant would be huge to the developing world and would in itself cause the population to start shrinking over
time. Feeding, Educating and Employing people is the best and most moral method of population control in history. A crop that does that would do 2 out
of the 3 in one blow.

Originally posted by sardion2000
There is caution then there is "bio-ludditism". We should not throw caution to the wind but we mustn't get caught up in dogmatic views on GMO's
saying it's "Playing God" or "Messing with Mother Nature". That smells like Faith to me and not Science at all.

Sardion, you're scaring me. I agree with everything you posted.

Get... out... of... my... MIIIIIIND!

Also the OrganiTech article is excellent, and I appreciate the referral.

Your point about “Faith” in particular caught my attention, because I am becoming increasingly convinced that many (if not all) “environmental
groups”, including anti-GM food protesters, are actually funded and nurtured by the corporations they protest.

The principle is that of discrediting the opposition, not unlike when a political party firebombs its own headquarters (or sets fire to the Reichstag)
to drum up sympathy and make their opponents look like the bad guys.

In the case of GM foods, by agreeing with anti-GM activists that extreme caution should be exercised in the development, testing and deployment of GM
crops I am taking sides with people I would rather not be in the same room with (for hygienic reasons, mostly).

After all, who wants to take political advice from people who paint their faces, handcuff themselves to things, vacuously intone about serving Gaia
and being brothers to the squirrels, spout Marxist buzzwords and dress up like giant vegetables?

I think we'll find that many people who are indifferent about GM foods feel that way because the people who are protesting them are seen as being a
bunch of obnoxious whack-jobs.

A recent Russian study says 55.6 percent of the offspring of female rats fed genetically engineered soy flour died within three weeks.

The female rats reportedly received 5-7 grams of the Roundup Ready variety of soybeans, beginning two weeks before conception and continuing through
nursing. By comparison, scientists said only 9 percent of the offspring of rats fed non-GM soy died.

Furthermore, Russian researchers said offspring from the GM-fed group were significantly stunted -- 36 percent weighed less than 20 grams after two
weeks, compared with only 6.7 percent from the control group.

Also the OrganiTech article is excellent, and I appreciate the referral.

Glad you enjoyed it. Do you agree with my theory that this could be used as a hurdle towards a more sustainable fuel supply via Biofuels that will
lead eventually to fully electric whenever we perfect that technology? Another hugely beneficial aspect of GMO's is it's ability to make orginism we
can later use for our huge energy needs. GM Algae or GM Sugarcane/Hemp is the question...

Your point about “Faith” in particular caught my attention, because I am becoming increasingly convinced that many (if not all) “environmental
groups”,

It's not just environmental groups that is gearing up to oppose Genetic technology, some more traditional "Faith" groups are gearing up to oppose
GM Humans and some of them seem to be waking up to the very real threat of GMO's in general and some are talking just as tough as any beatnik enviro
activist. I come from the new school of environmentalist thought and believe a "Bright Green Future" can only be established through technological
innovation. Check out www.worldchanging.org... for more information(it's a very balanced blog on the subject as is the
peakoildebunked.blogspot.com... site I think you might enjoy that one even more as they disect the doomers pretty mercilessly yet it's not a Peak
Oil Denyer site either)

including anti-GM food protesters, are actually funded and nurtured by the corporations they protest.

I wouldn't know anything about that. I know my suburban familiy members are now just waking up to this issue and I can tell you they are not
"activists". With that said it was my dads Greenpeace newsletter that originally tipped me off. Believe it or not but they still do have some sane
people working for them

The late Bob Hunter(co founder of Greenpeace) was my favorite columnist, quite balanced in his approach in his later
years.

In the case of GM foods, by agreeing with anti-GM activists that extreme caution should be exercised in the development, testing and deployment of GM
crops I am taking sides with people I would rather not be in the same room with (for hygienic reasons, mostly).

Trust me there are many many sane people who know about GMO's and their risks. You are not alone. The more people know about gardening the more
likely they will have a bad reaction to what they learn about GMO's thus far into the game, its just that simple in my view.

Originally posted by SkipShipman
The entire GM food promotion is from the twilight zone. Oh yes it is so wonderful. How about a sample article:

Yea I heard about that. Just more reason not to throw caution to the wind.

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