Yeah, if you like... she doesn't know what she's talking about, right?

km

Well, like so many others (including me sometimes) she's just sifting available theories and data to fit her pet theory/agenda. No big deal. It's just her opinion - sure, she knows what she's talking about. And loads of other experts know what they're talking about. And they all disagree with each other. And a load of them disagree with her. And on we go...

Steve says Who Cares? but for myself, I'm certainly curious about the manifold causes of my sexual orientation. Knowing isn't necessary, though. I'm a lot more curious as to why some sections of the society I live in still go to such lengths to ensure that I will feel bad about my sexual orientation. Now that's fascinating.

And I'm curious about why our particular culture has such an obsession with using sexual orientation as one of the prime markers of identity. As though sex is a more important part of anyone than anything else whatsoever, and so who you are is somehow defined by who you fancy? That's just so arbitrary.

Carp, I was referring to the quivering quackasaurus from olde Blighty, not you. Apollyloggies, my friend. The Keybie got me going with his magisterial role-playing, you see. I think he keeps a gavel by his keyboard... and heaven knows what else.

Sure, Steve - I was just thinking that in the context of society's obsession with anything that's not heterosexuality being 'abnormal', there's a lot riding in people's minds on whether it's an 'oh well you were just born that way' abnormal (biological) or an 'it was due to how you were brought up' abnormal (nurture) or an 'it's all your fault you bad person' abnormal ('choice' - and of course that's no longer 'abnormal', since that word just means you're not like the general majority - it has become 'evil' instead).

And of course this matters to people who are not heterosexual, for the same reasons - we were brought up in the same society, and so we (and especially the theistically inclined) want to know if we're 'bad' or not too. what a waste of time and energy. But it's part of the deal - since we're all conditioned by what goes on around us, we non-heterosexuals and our attitudes and behaviour are to some extent a consequence of the homophobia we grow up in. People told to think they're dirt tend not to act in their own best interests all the time, and then the homophobes use that self-destructive behaviour as another stick to beat us with.

So it shouldn't matter, but because it matters to homophobes, it necessarily matters to us too. Grok?

I asked my lesbian sister why she is gay? In an nutshell she told me that it was more about love than anything else. I can't figure it out either. But I can accept her answer as honest. Live and let live. Really, the bottom line is who really cares who you love other than those involved.

It's quite a coincidence that you post this today. Just a few days ago, after trawling through quite a few searches, I found my best friend from 3rd to 7th grade on the net. I contacted him and we almost immediately started an exchange talking about old times and new. Just yesterday, one of the things I mentioned was what a great father I always thought he had; building he and his brother atree house, seeing to their needs, seeming very supportive and thoughtful. That same day, my friend replied that his Dad (and Mom for that matter) were all that they seemed and he couldn't have asked for greater parents. In the the next paragraph, in a topic shift, he admitted that he was gay. And in the next paragraph, he told me that his 3 year younger brother and only sibling was also gay. My friend (more so than his brother) wasn't that big of a surprise for me, because he had mannerisms and a way of speaking that I would later recognize as more prevalent in the gay community than outside of it (trying to sound as diplomatic as possible - and risking opening up another can of worms).

So, you're "talking point" (which I honestly don't even think that you believe, because you sound like an observant person) is not something I had really ever considered, but my friend's case (and other less direct examples) seem to me to completely discount this theory.

"And I'm curious about why our particular culture has such an obsession with using sexual orientation as one of the prime markers of identity."

This sounds like a line that plays right into km's argument against gay pride parades. With the possible counter argument that gay pride parades wouldn't be necessary if there were less obsession with this particular difference between people.

However, having said that, I still do think almost everyone does see sexual orientation as one of the prime markers of identity. And as long as people are accepted as equal regardless of their sexual identity, it's not a problem. I mean what other prime markers of identity are there that are any more "prime" than one's sexual orientation? Parent? maybe. Gender? maybe.

Anyway, I do realize, padma, that you claried your statement later in a reply to Steve, but your original post got me thinking.

Xplain's use of MacNews, AppleCentral and AppleExpo are not affiliated with Apple, Inc. MacTech is a registered trademark of Xplain Corporation. AppleCentral, MacNews, Xplain, "The journal of Apple technology", Apple Expo, Explain It, MacDev, MacDev-1, THINK Reference, NetProfessional, MacTech Central, MacTech Domains, MacForge, and the MacTutorMan are trademarks or service marks of Xplain Corp. Sprocket is a registered trademark of eSprocket Corp. Other trademarks and copyrights appearing in this printing or software remain the property of their respective holders.

All contents are Copyright 1984-2010 by Xplain Corporation. All rights reserved. Theme designed by Icreon.