This discussion is rather comical to me, in that, most of the actions i felt sure i would take, in any given situation, more often than not, went out the window, in favour of whatever solved the situation in the fastest, most convenient way possible for a busy mum in the midst of a harried day. That seemed to be the hallmark of my 'parenting style'.

I was merely pointing out that YOUR assertation of..... you need to smack them because you can't be with them ALL the time non sequitur?? Ithinkyso

Not at all. Using the hot oven rule, the child will be afraid of the punishment because they dont understand the repercussions of things that COULD happen. Just like popping your kid on the bottom for trying to drink Drain-O. They dont understand what could]/i] happen but they are aware of the physical repercussions of a popping on the behind if "mom or dad" found out. Later on, once they're able to think ahead to repercussions, such tactics are no longer necessary.

PP

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

I was merely pointing out that YOUR assertation of..... you need to smack them because you can't be with them ALL the time non sequitur?? Ithinkyso

Not at all. Using the hot oven rule, the child will be afraid of the punishment because they dont understand the repercussions of things that COULD happen. Just like popping your kid on the bottom for trying to drink Drain-O. They dont understand what could]/i] happen but they are aware of the physical repercussions of a popping on the behind if "mom or dad" found out. Later on, once they're able to think ahead to repercussions, such tactics are no longer necessary.

PP

How come dont you get it??

Why do they need to understand the repercussions of things they don't understand before they can understand them??

Shall i tell them all about pedophiles when they are 6 years old?? NO of course not.... because they dont need to know that.... OUR job as parents is to protect them not scare the heck out of them and worry them with adult things!!!

The hot oven....THEY SHOULDNT BE EVEN NEAR IT IF PARENTS PROTECT THEM PROPERLY....so no need to smack them just move them away.

I have a little daughter 1.5 years. In my opinion regarding spanking issue the answer Yes. Every step of disobedience must be remarked or spanked, but we have to do it consciously and justly without anger and hate. I have noticed the more we forbid something for children then the more they want to do that. The best way to overcome it is to concentrate their mind on right actions. All know, that child is a mirror of parents, so we have to start upbringing from oneself.

I have a son who is almost 3 years old. He has a very strong personality. Also he is very stubborn.

I don't agree with spanking... I must admit that a few times I have lost my temper, and after that I felt very guilty about it, but I strongly believe that I spanked him because I couldn't control my temper. I think that the best method is to explain him even for a million times that he's not acting ok and also 'why'.

Sometimes, even if he is spanked, or corrected, or ignored, he acts the same. It's really hard to manage him, but I'm trying a lot not to harm him.

I have a son who is almost 3 years old. He has a very strong personality. Also he is very stubborn.

I don't agree with spanking... I must admit that a few times I have lost my temper, and after that I felt very guilty about it, but I strongly believe that I spanked him because I couldn't control my temper. I think that the best method is to explain him even for a million times that he's not acting ok and also 'why'.

Sometimes, even if he is spanked, or corrected, or ignored, he acts the same. It's really hard to manage him, but I'm trying a lot not to harm him.

Losing your temper and spanking is never right. For me, I do (or did) spank. He's 14 and 6'3" now so....

However, I made sure I was not angered and waited up to an hour. Then plainly explained what was going on, what was done and the punishment. Doing it in anger is not correction.

I would pray beforehand.PP

Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

I have a son who is almost 3 years old. He has a very strong personality. Also he is very stubborn.

I don't agree with spanking... I must admit that a few times I have lost my temper, and after that I felt very guilty about it, but I strongly believe that I spanked him because I couldn't control my temper. I think that the best method is to explain him even for a million times that he's not acting ok and also 'why'.

Sometimes, even if he is spanked, or corrected, or ignored, he acts the same. It's really hard to manage him, but I'm trying a lot not to harm him.

Losing your temper and spanking is never right. For me, I do (or did) spank. He's 14 and 6'3" now so....

However, I made sure I was not angered and waited up to an hour. Then plainly explained what was going on, what was done and the punishment. Doing it in anger is not correction.

I would pray beforehand.PP

i would also add that aside from communication discipline needs to be followed by love.

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Ou rLord an dSavior Jesus Christ!

In certain situations, spanking is entirely appropriate, maybe even necessary. But it should always be applied with caution, as a last resort and NEVER purely out anger. We should never lose our tempers with children, and since we are not perfect and surely we inevitably WILL lose our tempers, we definitely shouldn't use physical force in such a state of mind..

Some really good parenting advice I heard at a teaching seminar was this:

When disciplining children, always ask yourself the most important question, "WHY AM I DOING THIS EXACTLY?" If you are telling kids not to do something and there is no real reason for it aside from essentially a power trip, perhaps that is not really appropriate or effective? Sometimes kids "misbehavior" is just expressing themselves in ways we either don't understand, are not really paying attention to, or really may have no good or realistic reason to prohibit the behavior other than some control. Sometimes we need to just let kids be kids, and get over ourselves. Other times, we have to lay down the law, but BOTH should always be out of pure love, rarely anger. Kids are more perceptive to fear than dogs and anger is just another manifestation of a fear of lack of control.

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

Logged

Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

I wonder if King Solomon spared the rod from his own son...

Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

A) What about "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." (Colossians 3:21) and "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4)B) What is rod is to be interpreted symbolically for authority as it is in other instances in the Old Testament?

C) Do we also stone witches and adulterers like the Taliban, because the Old Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

A) What about "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." (Colossians 3:21) and "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4)B) What is rod is to be interpreted symbolically for authority as it is in other instances in the Old Testament?

C) Do we also stone witches and adulterers like the Taliban, because the Old Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

those verses do not contradict... you can discipline and do it in a manner of love through open communication and dialogue with the child...

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

A) What about "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." (Colossians 3:21) and "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4)B) What is rod is to be interpreted symbolically for authority as it is in other instances in the Old Testament?

C) Do we also stone witches and adulterers like the Taliban, because the Old Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

Do you have children? I do. I have four. I also come from a family of 10 children. Spanking works, and is necessary. One doesn't have to be angry or abusive; they just have to carry out punishment that isn't pleasant. Children have to learn the lesson that it sucks to disobey. That is a biblical principle. Burning witches is not a biblical principle and is illegal. There is no symbolism in what Solomon said. If you don't know what embittering ones children is, I don't have time to explain it here. Maybe Hallie Selassie will answer your objections to spanking, or tell you what embittering children is, but Jesus Christ has already given the answer. Chastening is never pleasant, so says the word of God.

Paul

« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 01:09:44 AM by stpaulphilip »

Logged

Isaiah 5:20 "Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

A) What about "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." (Colossians 3:21) and "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4)B) What is rod is to be interpreted symbolically for authority as it is in other instances in the Old Testament?

C) Do we also stone witches and adulterers like the Taliban, because the Old Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

Do you have children? I do. I have four. I also come from a family of 10 children. Spanking works, and is necessary. One doesn't have to be angry or abusive; they just have to carry out punishment that isn't pleasant. Children have to learn the lesson that it sucks to disobey. That is a biblical principle. Burning witches is not a biblical principle and is illegal. There is no symbolism in what Solomon said. If you don't know what embittering ones children is, I don't have time to explain it here. Maybe Hallie Selassie will answer your objections to spanking, or tell you what embittering children is, but Jesus Christ has already given the answer. Chastening is never pleasant, so says the word of God.

Greetings in that Divine and Most Precious Name of Ou rLord an dSavior Jesus Christ!

In certain situations, spanking is entirely appropriate, maybe even necessary. But it should always be applied with caution, as a last resort and NEVER purely out anger. We should never lose our tempers with children, and since we are not perfect and surely we inevitably WILL lose our tempers, we definitely shouldn't use physical force in such a state of mind..

stay blessed,habte selassie

« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 03:07:13 AM by HabteSelassie »

Logged

"Yet stand aloof from stupid questionings and geneologies and strifes and fightings about law, for they are without benefit and vain." Titus 3:10

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

A) What about "Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged." (Colossians 3:21) and "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." (Ephesians 6:4)B) What is rod is to be interpreted symbolically for authority as it is in other instances in the Old Testament?

C) Do we also stone witches and adulterers like the Taliban, because the Old Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

Do you have children? I do. I have four. I also come from a family of 10 children. Spanking works, and is necessary. One doesn't have to be angry or abusive; they just have to carry out punishment that isn't pleasant. Children have to learn the lesson that it sucks to disobey. That is a biblical principle. Burning witches is not a biblical principle and is illegal. There is no symbolism in what Solomon said. If you don't know what embittering ones children is, I don't have time to explain it here. Maybe Hallie Selassie will answer your objections to spanking, or tell you what embittering children is, but Jesus Christ has already given the answer. Chastening is never pleasant, so says the word of God.

Paul

Actually the killing of witches is in fact a Biblical principal, as is killing any children who curse their parents. Go read the laws of Moses.

Anyways, spanking is not "necessary" at least not all the time. I am sorry for your children if you think it should be a standard practice. Spanking has been shown to be rather ineffective. In fact, speaking from my own life, when my mother did use to spank me somewhat frequently, I did not reform. I did not stop acting bad. It had no effect on me except in the very short term. That is how spanking works: it affects children in the short term, without changing any long term behaviors.

Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?

..because theOld Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

Actually the killing of witches is in fact a Biblical principal, as is killing any children who curse their parents. Go read the laws of Moses.

Whoa there slow it down there..

stay blessed,habte selassie

Well yes, but don't you know that we aren't to interpret the Old in light of the New? After all, verses from the New Testament about not embittering your children against you clearly have nothing to do with an Old Testament injunction to beat your children.

Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?

..because theOld Testament explicitly commands these anachronisms as well

stay blessed,habte selassie

Actually the killing of witches is in fact a Biblical principal, as is killing any children who curse their parents. Go read the laws of Moses.

Whoa there slow it down there..

stay blessed,habte selassie

Well yes, but don't you know that we aren't to interpret the Old in light of the New? After all, verses from the New Testament about not embittering your children against you clearly have nothing to do with an Old Testament injunction to beat your children.

as i said before you can discipline without embittering... they work hand in hand... setting up the proper way for disciplinary actions...

I think it is extremely difficult to physically "discipline" someone without embittering them.

no not at all.. you treat them as a person and explain what is happening and why.. not just assume it and start spanking... the child then realises the reasons and understands what is happening. you then follow up the spanking with another talk explaining your love for them and then hug them more so than your disciplinary act you must show love...

I think it is extremely difficult to physically "discipline" someone without embittering them.

no not at all.. you treat them as a person and explain what is happening and why.. not just assume it and start spanking... the child then realises the reasons and understands what is happening. you then follow up the spanking with another talk explaining your love for them and then hug them more so than your disciplinary act you must show love...

If they are capable of understanding why their parent is hitting them, then I do not understand why you shouldn't be able to find a non-corporal means of punishment?

Logged

I know a secret about a former Supreme Court Justice. Can you guess what it is?

I think it is extremely difficult to physically "discipline" someone without embittering them.

no not at all.. you treat them as a person and explain what is happening and why.. not just assume it and start spanking... the child then realises the reasons and understands what is happening. you then follow up the spanking with another talk explaining your love for them and then hug them more so than your disciplinary act you must show love...

If they are capable of understanding why their parent is hitting them, then I do not understand why you shouldn't be able to find a non-corporal means of punishment?

because disobedience has a punishment... we are capable of understanding why people go to hell but it does not mean God will change the punishment... Spanking is there to A show the child that disobedience hurts them... and B show disobedience hurts their parents...

I would like to give my son a good beating because he smokes cigarettes, but he's 22 and a black black now so I dont think I can take him anymore. Maybe I can sneak up while he is asleep and use a baseball bat.

Logged

Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

I would never lay a hand on my son or any child for I would be investigated by CPS and carted off to jail for a very long time. Teach a child how to negotiate and he/she will go far in life and make friends. Teach a child violence and he/she will reciprocate with all kinds of violence against oneself and others.

I really don't know how some of you can justify spanking children. I've never seen Supernanny lay a hand on any child.

King Solomon from the Word of God disagrees with you: "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die. Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell." Proverbs 23:13-14.

I wonder why solomon didn't mind his own business about his own salvation, and started lecturing others how to discipline instead.

I am against. But I am not surprised to hear that many people do that cruel type of thing. This world is a mess. There is nothing we can do to change it. But there is a lot we can do to change ourselves.

Lord have mercy on the children. It isn't fair that they take the punishment we deserve.

I would like to give my son a good beating because he smokes cigarettes, but he's 22 and a black black now so I dont think I can take him anymore. Maybe I can sneak up while he is asleep and use a baseball bat.

I think it is extremely difficult to physically "discipline" someone without embittering them.

no not at all.. you treat them as a person and explain what is happening and why.. not just assume it and start spanking... the child then realises the reasons and understands what is happening. you then follow up the spanking with another talk explaining your love for them and then hug them more so than your disciplinary act you must show love...

If they are capable of understanding why their parent is hitting them, then I do not understand why you shouldn't be able to find a non-corporal means of punishment?

because disobedience has a punishment... we are capable of understanding why people go to hell but it does not mean God will change the punishment... Spanking is there to A show the child that disobedience hurts them... and B show disobedience hurts their parents...

Schoolchildrens' "spanking" related injuries (WARNING - These images may be deeply disturbing to some viewers. Do not open this page if children are present).http://www.nospank.net/injuredkids.pdf

Reasonable and moderate? You decide. (WARNING - This sound recording may be deeply disturbing to some listeners. Do not open this file if children are within listening range). http://nospank.net/prj-006.wav

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child "spanking" isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics,American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry,American Psychological Association,Center For Effective Discipline,Churches' Network For Non-Violence,United Methodist ChurchNobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu,Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps,Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children,United Nations Committee on the Rights of the Child.

In 31 nations, child corporal punishment is prohibited by law (with more in process). In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child. The US also has the highest incarceration rate in the world.

The US states with the highest crime rates and the poorest academic performance are also the ones with the highest rates of child corporal punishment.

There is simply no evidence to suggest that child bottom-battering instills virtue.

a whole lot of science here. I didn't know christians believed in science.

I would like to give my son a good beating because he smokes cigarettes, but he's 22 and a black black now so I dont think I can take him anymore. Maybe I can sneak up while he is asleep and use a baseball bat.

Why beat him when using Byzantine intrigue is so much more effective and satisfying? Of course, it helps to have a bidable and devious eunuch and those are in short supply.

Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

I would like to give my son a good beating because he smokes cigarettes, but he's 22 and a black black now so I dont think I can take him anymore. Maybe I can sneak up while he is asleep and use a baseball bat.

Repent. For the kingdom of Heaven is at hand.

Yes, why don't you do that?

Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt

If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.

Quote from: orthonorm

I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

I am against. But I am not surprised to hear that many people do that cruel type of thing. This world is a mess. There is nothing we can do to change it. But there is a lot we can do to change ourselves.

Lord have mercy on the children. It isn't fair that they take the punishment we deserve.

What is more cruel? Spanking a child when it is needed to correct a wrong action, to teach them right from wrong, to let them know there are boundaries and a price for violating those boundaries so they grow into well-adjusted adults who understand rules and laws or not spanking the child, teaching them nothing and leaving them to their own, limited, immature, inexperienced choices, hoping for the best when they grow up?

Spanking is not cruel, unless it is excessive. I never knew what my father mean when he said, "This hurts me more than it does you" until I had my own children. Ultimately, it is each parents choice, but condemning a parent who does properly spank their kids is ridiculous at best, foolish at worst.