Tech Force 87 underlever – Part 3

Before we start, I wanted to remind you that I’ll be in the hospital today and for the next few days due to surgery. I’d appreciate it if the regular blog readers could help by answering the questions in my absence. Edith will also help answer questions.

You guys have been very good to me this year, which is why I didn’t mind putting in the extra time with this gun. Too much.

In all my years of shooting pellet rifles, I’ve never worked harder to get a good result. The Tech Force 87 underlever has the potential to shoot pellet after pellet through the same hole, but only if you know what you’re doing and you never deviate from the right procedure. If you are a casual deer hunter, better stand inside a barn and be satisfied when you hit one of the walls. But if you can be an anal jedi/ninja sort of guy, you can get this rifle to perform.

Three separate days I shot the rifle. I shot it with so many pellets that I’m just going to list them for the record. I can’t even remember what they all did, because I spent so much time with the one pellet I finally got to shoot well (sort of) that I forget the rest.

The first thing I discovered was that the gun shot low. Okay, there’s a simple solution to that. A BKL drooper mount was installed. At first I selected the BKL one-piece mount with .007 drop compensation and a short clamp base, because there isn’t enough room to clamp the 4-inch BKL mount to the rails with the scope stop mounted. Well, it didn’t work. The mount actually walked forward under recoil! So, off came the TF 87 scope stop and what a surprise — it’s not anchored to anything. In other words, it doesn’t work!

The scope I used was Leapers 3-9×40 mil-dot with red/green reticle. The one I used was an older scope than I’ve linked to, but the specs are the same. The BKL mounts lifted this scope high off the spring tube so a 50mm objective would even be possible. I found this scope to be very bright and clear throughout the whole test.

Problems, problems
Then, I turned to shooting and encountered problems. Three pellets would land in the same hole, then two would stray one or two inches away, then another would go through the hole, again. Experience has taught me that this is usually due to technique if the vertical reticle in the scope isn’t adjusted up too high, which, due to the drooper mount, this one was not.

I began experimenting with my shooting technique. By technique, I mean different variations of the artillery hold. Oh, in case you’re wondering, I did try the gun directly on the sandbag, too. Shooting it that way, the pellets didn’t even hit the pellet trap at 25 yards!

By this time, I had two different mounts on the gun and tried about 12 different high-quality pellets. Here’s the list of what I tried:

Success, sort of
And then I found a pellet that the rifle likes, more or less. Actually, the rifle really likes the JSB Exact 10.2-grain dome a lot, but you have to use the right technique if you want to get it to shoot. And the right technique is this:

Hold the rifle dead, dead, dead! What that does is ensure a perfect follow-through. Now the regular artillery hold normally accomplishes this for me, but this time it wasn’t enough. Instead, I slid my off hand out as far on the forearm as I could reach and rested the rifle on my palm. Everything about that hold was dead calm. Then, I had to consciously relax with every shot. I’m going to show you exactly what happens when you don’t consciously relax. The following targets will not impress anyone, so please take the time to read the lengthy captions, because they explain what you’re seeing.

These were shot off a rest at 25 yards on a calm day.

This is the target that showed me what this rifle needed! I know it looks terrible, but look at the five shots in the black. They’re not too bad for 25 yards. At nine o’clock in the white are two shots — numbers three and five. With three, I wasn’t fully relaxed. With five, I tried to hold the rifle exactly the same as for shot three. The pellet went through the same hole! The three shots above the black are all when I didn’t relax completely. I figured out enough from this target to shoot a better one.

In this target, I put 6 shots into a good group in the black. But, 4 times I wasn’t as relaxed as I should’ve been. The two shots in the black at 7 o’clock are slight mistakes, and the shot in the white at 10 o’clock is when I rushed the shot because I’d just landed so many in the good group. The final shot I also rushed and got the hole at 12 o’clock in the white.

What’s the verdict?
This rifle is for the careful shooter who will take the time to learn his one rifle and what it likes. I’ve probably only scratched the surface of what can be done with it. However, it’s not a natural shooter that puts them on top of each other like they were radar-guided. The reason for that is the power.

If you remember from Part 2, the TF 87 lives up to its advertised potential. In .22 caliber, it might be a lot easier to shoot well, but in the .177 test gun, most pellets go too fast. You want to be sure to use only the heavier ammunition and use the good stuff. At this point, I’m recommending the JSB Exact 10.2-grain domes.

Boy, and I thought this type of behavior was just me. Springers require a lot of work to truly master. I can completely relate to the specific issues and techniques involved.

I do wonder if when shooting in the off-hand position whether or not the more natural hold cancels (or does not introduce) the issues seen when shooting off of a rest, even using the artillery hold?

I’m finding that every little detail matters when shooting my Quest 1000X, or CF-X. For instance, it matters how far forward you place your hand. In my experience, moving my hand closer towards me helped reduce some of the jump (shots that appear like flayers). I attributed this to stabilization, as the further you move you hand back, the more weight there is in front of you, dampening the recoil. However, you can only go so far back before you’re effectively restricting the guns motion, introducing a “vice like” effect, which we all know doesn’t work well with springers. Again, every last detail matters, so you have to practice to get each detail right in a single execution.

I’m not surprised. I was on travel when I bought my Titan, so I had to take it out to the field to test. I only leaned my elbow on a rifle case that sat on top of my car trunk, so there was no real rest involved. I got wonderful results that way. Sure, there was more wobble, but it wasn’t great, and I was able to get really good accuracy.

I find that when I use a rest of any kind, along with an open hand (artillery hold), ANY amount of force used to hold the rifle to point will result in a jump to break from that hold. You have to allow the rifle to sit on your hand so that there is virtually no potential pull in any direction. The recoil will break in the direction opposite the hold, causing a wide shot.

You know, I wonder if you can accurately characterize what springers do as “recoil”? With a firearm, the recoil is the action caused by the force of the explosion in the opposite direction of the projectile being launched by that explosion. With a sprinter, it’s more of a release of energy in all directions, and not just from front to back. Because this release of energy is in all directions, it will want to break through any bias created by the shooter, thus causing an “impulse” in the direction opposite the hold. In other words, springers want to move freely. Therefore, the best that you can hope for is that all of that energy is dispersed in such a way that it all almost cancels out. Sounds like a lot to ask for.

22 cal is the way to go with this one .Too much power and speed for 17 cal ,my opinion is (more like rule really)-over 900 fps(some may say that limit for them is 1000fps???maybe ) i would always pick 22 cal over 17 cal and no i do not suffer from big gun syndrome(ok- i do to ),don’t need strongest airgun(but i would like to have one:) ) both calibers SHOULD be accurate at lower speeds but after 900fps limit heavier,sturdier 22 cal should be leading -this is only my opinion.BB.-good luck today we’ll be waiting for you !

Milan,
I have been shooting my TF87-22 for the last few months with open sights and found the best pellet so far is the Beeman silverbear/H & N Hollowpoints 12.65 gr. The best 5 shot group at 12 yards rested is a one hole 3/8″ (sub dime sized) and at 21 yards rested 5/8″ (nickle sized). This gun is perfectly balanced just aft of the cocking slot on the forearm and likes to be held with an open palm in that position. I normally go through a mental check list when shooting this gun from a rested position:-
cock and load
Place palm at the balance point- your left index finger should be able to feel the cocking slot.
Take up the first stage on the trigger
align sights with the target.
take two deep breaths and let them out slowly.
hold your breath after you have let it out the second time.
Relax, allow your offhand to go limp, squeeze trigger.
Follow through.
If you are in a hurry, don’t shoot targets with this gun and expect to get good groups.

Artillery hold is the way to go with those strong air rifles and i do think that this gun is a performer in 22 cal . In fact this rifle is like made for larger calibers this is my impression, and based on what you have told me i am only more certain.

I am also praying for Tom and Edith today. I hope you can put all this surgery and illness behind you and have a healthy new year.

I have decided that for guns I buy to shoot that I will only keep guns that shoot well for me using the pellets I stock and holding the gun the way I hold it. I know I will miss out on some fine guns but I have decided that it is too much of a hassle to keep a bunch of different pellets, have to remember which pellet each guns shoots, just exactly how each gun likes to be held, and which side of my mouth my tong has to stick out to get a good group. I want to be able to just pick up a rifle, grab pellets and know that I will be able to shoot it well.

I know that as an airgun writer you cannot do that. You have to try your best to diagnose a rifle and get the best results it is capable of. That can be fun too and it is rewarding when you finally discover what makes a gun shoot well.

All the best for today’s surgery Tom hope all goes according to plan and you’re back with us soon.

David I’m with you on this and since I don’t hunt I have almost no high powered rifles and shot mostly the same rifles with the same pellets.
The other downside of this besides maybe missing on some potentially great guns is you won’t have anything left but yourself to blame for bad shots…

Is the Artillery hold totally dependant on a rest(bench,bag etc) or can it also apply when shooting off hand?
I am practising what I think is the Artillery hold by resting the fore grip on my left open palm,taking the rest of the weight through the butt stock and apart from the trigger,barely touching the stock with my right hand.
The results are good and I gave my son in law (a scoped,PCP guy) a damn good thrashing when we had a shoot off with my HW last week
Is what I am doing still considered the Artillery hold though?

I know you won’t be able to answer yourself but Again,all the best mate.
DaveUK

In my opinion, yes, what you are doing is making a “sled” for your fore stock to move through by use of your hand on top of the bag with a light grip or centering of the rifle and in line with your shoulder. The same can be done (and is done) off hand or kneeling or other positions except… now the body mechanics really come into play. Four basic steps, 1 establish the “frame” or arms, elbows and hands, 2 set the rifle into the frame, 3 establish level and target picture, 4 controlled breathing, aim, fire.

Interesting that this all happens in less than 3 seconds for most FT shooters and other target pros, in the meantime, we mere mortals just need to practice, practice and …………

Thanks for that Brian.
I am really happy with the consistency in my shooting these days.
A decent spring rifle helps but I have had good springers before,so something else is at play.
Must be the artillery hold
Got to pack in smoking and work on the breathing a bit though.
Don’t take up smoking kids.
DaveUK

You may have had good springers before, but now you have an excellent one! I love my HW-50S, it shoots better everytime I pick it up.

Regarding the artillery hold, I use it, but as usual, I cheat. When shooting off my bag, I cover it with a woolen cap. This creates a surface with the same support, but a fraction of the friction. That way I can rest it right on the bag, which leaves my left hand free to hold a cigar or change the channel. Hold it loosely with your trigger hand, and the rifle moves back just as much as it wants to. My TX200 and Diana 52 (my only springers that could be included in magnum territory) shoot best this way. I suppose it would not work as well with a rifle that has checkering on the bottom of the forearm. As far as shooting offhand, your description of what you are doing is precisely right for the artillery hold. If you were to grip the sides of the forearm with your fingers, you would screw it all up. Here again, I cheat. I have a pair of gloves, wool blend, that has rubber tips on the fingers. Holding my palm open, the rifle easily slides back against the slippery surface. But then I can grip it securely when not shooting due to the rubber fingertips. Not so great in summer time.

I agree with David Enoch’s comments earlier about all the little things that some rifles take to shoot accurately. The position of your tongue, holding your mouth just right, and whether or not you have changed out of your pajamas yet can make all the difference. This sounds sarcastic but I am dead serious.

I am not a skilled marksman, so I like rifles that shoot well with the least amount of skill on my part (TX-200, Marauder) and not needing a library of pellets. But then again, if you really enjoy shooting a certain rifle, it is fun to find out exactly what it wants as far as hold and pellets. So I guess I’m on the fence on this issue.

Hmmm a good cigar. We may not get the best airguns but we do get the best cigars… My wife went to Cuba a few weeks ago (the amount of airguns you can buy when your better half isn’t there… But that’s another story) she got me a few nice boxes of cigars, good thing I have garage/indoor range because it’s COLD outside and there’s no way I can smoke these big boys inside.

DaveUK, what you’re doing sounds right to me. As far as I’m concerned, if you make like a platform for the rifle to rest one without any gripping pressure anywhere, you’ve got the artillery hold. But I think it is especially important to follow through with the rifle jumping around to make sure that it comes back to point of aim. As I mentioned above, maintaining the looseness of the hold within the restrictions of any rested, non-standing position is a little trickier, but obviously it can still be done.

What you need to know:
Cash only, no credit or debit cards.
Hours are about 10-2, but call first.
No web site, no e-mail, no internet.

As of the last time I was there, the airguns were getting picked over – but still a bunch of pellets. Rifle examples – new in the box HW77 from over twenty years ago that Derrick bought, Marksman 70 and 50, FWB 65,etc. I bought a 98% Wischo 55 for $160.00 bucks. Pellets selection is second to none for oldies, like boxed Siver Jets, etc. Also cases of the CP’s in the box.

If Chuck is working (owner), just make small talk first or he may not let you buy much…

Just to confirm – Derrick is the strore still open? Still hoping for that R8

I think I have enough airguns for right now. I’m still working out some bugs on some of them that I feel like taking the time with.
I might consider having a look if I didn’t have to drive halfway asross the state to get there.

The problem for me with too many guns is that I never really get used to any particular one.

B.B. really tempted me with the R8. The 97K was just too muchto resist.

I agree too many rifles are a mixed blessing. But even if you don’t spend a nickel, it would be a trip worth making. This shop is certainly the last of it’s kind, and the owner has been working on airguns since the 1960′s or earlier. I enjoyed both my visits this year very much.

If you do buy anything, he will take a pad out ala 1975 and write each item up.

Brian,

PA was buying discontinued parts from him along with Umarex. I doubt he will be open much longer.
Safe to say he is no real competition to anyone anymore.

Old 1000 sq foot attached building down a side street in what was (once) the downtown of the city.

Has maybe 20 higher-end guns, a few Crosmans, odds & ends etc etc.

Still, I bought my first Beeman HW77 from him and a few goodies after that.

Last of the Mohicans these types of stores in the U.S.. Now the UK on the other hand, must have over 100 such stores and even larger establishments dedicated just to airguns. Of course, the UK is NOT dedicated to firearms ownership so, there ya go! Dave???

Ah yes, Magnum Springers. Brings back many memories. Since power/velocity are at the top of the list of criteria for most newbies (I was one of them!) I’m amazed at the number of people that remain interested in airguns after buying a magnum springer as their first “real” airgun. Add barrel droop and lack of a proper scope stop and you have a recipe for a short lived interest in airguns from a newbie.

God bless B.B. for this series of articles about wringing accuracy out of a magnum springer since his list of experienced potential solutions to get an airgun to shoot accurately is almost completely encompassed here, i.e., different hold techniques, try lots of different pellets, understand barrel droop, get proper scope mount if you don’t have a good scope stop, try a different scope, have patience since even a seasoned airgun veteran needs time to identify and address these issues, etc. etc.

When the next frustrated newbie airgunner reaches out to us in frustration about his gun not shooting accurately what should he do?, I think we should all keep this series of articles in the forefront of our thoughts even if his/her gun isn’t a Tech Force 87. A magnum springer is an invention that can turn off a newbie quickly if they don’t have patience armed with knowledge.

Speaking of inventions, when you think about it, God has to be the best inventor of all time. He took a rib from Adam and made a loudspeaker. (Forgive me Mrs. Gaylord, LOL!)

Kevin, based on the amount of activity on the web selling “refurbished” magnum springers (RWS 48 et al), I think you are absolutely correct!

I believe that the spring gun makers do their customers (and their selves long term) a real dis-service by not explaining the nuances in their owners manuals, including even a cheapo- CD in this age of computers.

I see it at Cabelas all the time, racks of springer magnums in the bargain cave store. No doubt why most of those returns are there?

Very good point. I wish I would have paid more attention early on to those models of used airguns that are frequently for sale on the classified ads pages. Unfortunately, like many things in my life, I have to learn the hard way.

Well said as usual..
Avenger 1100s in .177 is where Randy & I got started.. and quickly frustrated..

20 yards, indoors off a rest would sometimes give us 5 shots 1/4″ one hole at times with 10.6 kodiak heavy match.. even have a board with 50 shots in one hole 3/8″.. but then the next session would be all over the place…

..but somewhere along the line… enter the Air Arms S410 in .177… life became good.. very good..:-)

.. really if one wants to save a lot of money and frustration… and if one can make that jump all at once.. I’ve said it before.. and I’m still saying it… that’s the only air gun you need.. from indoor 500fps 4.5fpe 10 meter, to 950fps 20fpe Field target to 1050fps 24fpe small game like rabbits.. all with quiet precision and joy of shooting.. let life become good for you too..

I too still have my Diana 27s, RWS 92s, and some of Tom’s fine little “Broncos” for plinking and starting out new folks…

But.. when I really want to hook them on the sport, I put an AAS400 MPRFT or 410 with a Field Target stock, in their hands.. targets fall!!! they smile.. and want to shoot more..

They can work toward affording one, if they can’t “buy it now”… and can borrow mine until they can.. they be in!.. and when I want to really, really, entice, I sit them down and place a USFT on their knees..
“Oh my, this is like cheating” is what I hear most:-)..

Well, that’s what “open class” can create from the imagination of Larry Durham, my friend… an airgun, hand made by Tim at Mac1, perfectly fit to the field target game… and now the bench rest game too..

One of these days your going to make me buy an AA pcp. I think they just came out with a 510, so chance are I will be looking at the AA810.

A good PCP and a mild springer like an R7 go a long way, but I still added a hot rodded R9 to my mix ’cause sometime I guess I just like it rough. I would compare it to hot black coffee and whiskey straight.

Kevin,

The family is all well, thanks for asking. On the other hand the housing market here still remains challenging. I had one that was supposed to close this week fall through because they lost financing, so now instead of receiving the closing commission I owe the first half advance back, about $2600.00.
Fortunately I managed to sell two small spec homes last week, so I should net out at zero.

Yup, that S410 is the hot ticket but… what is the “new Airgun from AA” ? that has a quarter page ad in the winter 2010 PA catalogue? The stock looks like a cut down Schnabel and the air reservoir looks longer, etc.? I don’t think it is an S510.

Does your hold also include draping your thumb alongside (rather than across) the wrist of the rifle? This little adjustment (tidbit B.B. dropped some time ago) made a big difference in my accuracy with ALL my springers. My RWS 350-22 and my HW 30S-177 both group very nicely this way. The RWS 54 doesn’t much care either way.

Sounds like the TechForce requires that extra touch of relaxation mastered by that young archer who won the gold in Atlanta, who was able to relax so completely that he could slow his heart rate down to the point he would nearly black out and only released between beats.

Pretty sure Tom will not see comments until he is back home, so a prayer for now:

Almighty and eternal God, you are the everlasting health of those who believe in you. Hear us for your sick servant Tom Gaylord for whom we implore the aid of your tender mercy, that being restored to bodily health, he may give thanks to you in your church. Through Christ our Lord.

BB, best of luck today. I hope everything goes well. Hopefully the coming year will bring you health wealth and happiness.

Your results with the 87 are almost exactly what I experience with my 89. In a group of 10, I’ll get 7 in a nice group and three fliers. This is a consistent phenomenon, and the rifle shoots well enough in those 7 to keep me interested in figuring it out. Maybe with your results, I’ll try some more and hopefully find the magic technique.

Thank you for your prayers! Tom is in excellent hands. His surgery was scheduled for 7:30, and I thought that’s when it had started. I just got a call around 9 that the surgery had just started now. The operating room has been reserved for 5 hrs., so it’ll be a while before Tom comes out.

This procedure is not life-threatening and is done more commonly than you’d think. We’re not being cavalier about it, but we feel very good about it. Our surgeon is a pancreatic specialist and is highly regarded by his peers.

“This rifle is a little demanding. Sounds like a labor of love.”
This is what I like about springers. When shooting 10m with my 853c (next to no recoil) my mindset is of erasing that dot (.) that is the 10 on an ISSF target.
The same mindset takes over on the range at 30m with my Slavia…only now I’m aiming for a 1″ group with 10 shots. And even though it is a mild springer it suffers from the same foibles as todays subject…7 or 8 shots covered by a quarter and then that moment of inattentiveness that puts a flyer 2″ off the group.
I personally like the skill and concentration involved with springers, and is the reason I avoid PCP’s. I just can’t imagine the fun of effortlessly placing your shot in the same hole time after time
By the way…U.N.C.L.E….United Network Command for Law and Enforcement.

The surgery took 3.5 hrs. The surgeon, who specializes in pancreatic surgeries, said “it was a mess.” The external drain had welded itself to Tom’s insides. There was so much scar tissue, infection and inflammation that he couldn’t get to the drain or Tom’s pancreas without removing the spleen. The pancreas was very thick and swollen, and the normal way of closing it back up after removing 30% of it was impossible. They had to improvise somewhat.

Bottom line is that Tom is conscious, on pain medication and in the ICU. He lost a lot of blood, so they’re giving him 2 units now.

The external drain has been removed, but another temporary drain has been inserted elsewhere to catch all the drainage that usually happens after pancreatic surgery. In 85% of these types of surgeries, that drain can come out in 1-2 weeks. This drain is not like the previous drain. It won’t weld itself to Tom’s organs.

Thank God this episode in our lives is now coming to a close. If it hadn’t been for God, I don’t know how either one of us could have lasted through this ordeal.

The surgeon said Tom will not have to do anything special. He’ll be able to live a normal life and live happily ever after I look forward to doing that with him!

Thanks to everyone for their prayers and kind words. I’ll tell Tom about them when I see him this afternoon.

Edith,
Thanks, I just checked in to see how he made it. Sounds promising — he’s had enough trouble out of that pancreas to last a long time. The only question I have is how Tom would adapt to a “normal life” — he’s used to the best (with you), so I doubt he’d want to settle for normal :). I hope that he will live happily ever after, though.

Along with everyone else I greatly appreciate the update. I like most of the update. Considering the past and his pancreas I’m guardedly optimistic. I’ll continue to pray for his full and speedy recovery.
Please be strong and know that we’re praying for you as well. Hope you’re able to get some sleep.

The ICU nurse called, and Tom’s blood pressure & temp continue to be extremely low. They’ve also given him another 2 units of blood. They put in a central line, which is an IV line into his neck and in a big blood vessel, which allows larger quantities of fluid to be given. This is supposed to improve his vital signs.

A central line can cause a lung to collapse, and that’s what happened 8 months ago at the first hospital. Of course, that hospital did everything wrong. I’m praying that things go better this time around.

I’ll update everyone early tomorrow morning, when I get an update from the ICU.

Terrific news about Tom. Thanks for the update Edith. That’s great that you had a surgeon who knew what he was doing at the critical time. I won’t feel bad the next time I hear about doctors’ salaries.

Twotalon,
Volvo is correct about Chuck. It’d be a good day trip for you. I’m somewhat reluctant to talk about it on PA’s site, but he’s not exactly a “competitor”. He’s in his mid 80′s and his health isn’t what it used to be. As a result, he can get, uh, um, sometimes a little bit cantankerous, but he’s a really honest guy who knows far more than I ever will about airguns and repairing them.

Yes, bring cash. About ten grand will about cover it. Buy a Feinwerkbau 65 or two. Tell him you know Derrick. He’ll probably say something like “Well, see there? I knew there was a reason I didn’t like you!”

am holding my breath for Tom’s speedy and safe recovery. Let’s get all those vitals under control. Hey, if his blood pressure is a bit on the low side, I can certainly stand to give him some of my points :).

Even though I took off from work this week, the Great County of Union in the Honorable State of NJ has reached out and called me to report for Jury Duty tomorrow and Thursday. I guess I was just born under a lucky star!