Positor's Poems

As natural philosophy progressedAnd rigorous procedures were evolved,The method of hypothesis and testBore fruit, and age-old mysteries were solved.But metaphysics was beset by gloom;It had no clinching arguments to hand.The brisk, no-nonsense views of David HumeCompeted with Kant's theories, dense but grand.Plain realism clashed with the sublime,And still produced no obvious advance –A pass that has continued in our timeWith charlatans from Germany and France.For knowledge, then, and practical appliance,The brightest brains prefer careers in science.

Comments by other posters on Positor's verse

Positor wrote:As natural philosophy progressedAnd rigorous procedures were evolved,The method of hypothesis and testBore fruit, and age-old mysteries were solved.But metaphysics was beset by gloom;It had no clinching arguments to hand.The brisk, no-nonsense views of David HumeCompeted with Kant's theories, dense but grand.Plain realism clashed with the sublime,And still produced no obvious advance –A pass that has continued in our timeWith charlatans from Germany and France.For knowledge, then, and practical appliance,The brightest brains prefer careers in science.

I like this a lot. I just plain like the sonnet form, especially when put to good use like this. The account of history has the qualities of truth and conciseness that make the final couplet forceful.Nice work.

You had the choice of brains vs minds, and you chose the former, which has alliteration on the B.But had you chosen minds you would have a nice chiming repetition of the long I vowell:

the brIghtest mInds prefer careers in scIence

You probably thought of it both ways, it's a trade-off. You might reconsider though.

I actually think that my mind is more than just my brain. What makes my mind is partly the other people around me, the daily discussions available to me, the secure environment, diet, exercise. If you kept my brain the same but changed my circumstances I might be LESS bright and I might have different PREFERENCES including if I were younger about career-related stuff. I think of my mind as a PROCESS that is mostly supported by the organ of my brain but is also sustained and determined in part by other stuff.So I would say that my mind is what would prefer careers in science, and people in science, rather than my brain.

But brain is OK, the final couplet is strong either way. This way you get the alliteration so maybe that's best.

For me the postmodern deconstructionists who treat science as another mythology or "hegemony" or something---they are the charlatans I think of. But there were also the densely abstruse 19th century German metaphysics guys. You might mean them. Who was it who spoke of "the accursed fecundity of metaphysics"? I'm a bit sketchy on my hist. of phil. (to say the least.) It might be those other charlatans that you were referring to.

The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

It's said that God eludes the graspOf Man's imperfect mind;That his transcendent qualitiesCan never be defined.Smart theologians reconcileThis fact through paradox,While priests dispense with theory, andPreach dogma to their flocks.

"So", the believers carry on,"If logic cannot cope,There must be something complex there(You get our point, we hope).Non-being's simple, for it hasNo attributes to list;Since this does not apply to God,He must, therefore, exist".

"What question-begging balderdash!"The atheist replies."One stroke of Occam's Razor mustResult in God's demise."Agnostics of assorted kinds –Don't-knows, don't-cares, and others –Chip in, as do the humanistsWho say all men are brothers.

And so the great debate rolls on:"Religion – truth or fable?"The doctrines of conflicting faithsExacerbate this Babel.Some bloggers bandy Darwin's name;Some mention Kant or Nietzsche.Ah! such disputes will always beA widespread human feature.

Re: The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

This is a skillful and witty bit of rhyming!I sense an enigmatic smile at the end: Someone in the UK might say "FEE-CHUH" to rhyme with Nietzsche and there are Midwest Americans who, if they had heard of the German philosopher, might well pronounce his name "NEE-CHER" to rhyme with feature.

Positor wrote:It's said that God eludes the graspOf Man's imperfect mind;That his transcendent qualitiesCan never be defined.Smart theologians reconcileThis fact through paradox,While priests dispense with theory, andPreach dogma to their flocks.

"So", the believers carry on,"If logic cannot cope,There must be something complex there(You get our point, we hope).Non-being's simple, for it hasNo attributes to list;Since this does not apply to God,He must, therefore, exist".

"What question-begging balderdash!"The atheist replies."One stroke of Occam's Razor mustResult in God's demise."Agnostics of assorted kinds –Don't-knows, don't-cares, and others –Chip in, as do the humanistsWho say all men are brothers.

And so the great debate rolls on:"Religion – truth or fable?"The doctrines of conflicting faithsExacerbate this Babel.Some bloggers bandy Darwin's name;Some mention Kant or Nietzsche.Ah! such disputes will always beA widespread human feature.

I'm curious, Positor. When did you accomplish this? I assume it is your work. I've never seen it before.

Re: The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

Marshall wrote:I'm curious, Positor. When did you accomplish this? I assume it is your work.

Yes. I composed it yesterday, actually. I was reading an article in a philosophy magazine, which gave an unconvincing argument for God's existence. I thought I could sum it up in a poem, which I then expanded to cover the general topic of religious belief and non-belief.

Re: The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

Re: The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

The poem covers it all. There is the conclusion of ‘God’ already used as an input to its proof, as the horse before the cart, which only tells of what God isn’t (effable) instead of what He is, since dogma admits no contest.

A simple stroke of the razor cuts out complexity as being the First, but the believers’ template claim life must come from Life; however, they forgot about then Life requiring LIFE and threw their question-begging template right out of their stained glass window.

Re: The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

Positor's poem seems to have met with general approval. I didn't want it to drift down the menu and get hard to find so I made it a sticky. It can be a pleasure to go back to and read again from time to time.

On Philosophical Method

I relish the challenge of wacky ideas;I'll probe any theory to check it coheres.I won't dismiss angels or backward causation,Infinity, thought waves, or even Creation;I'll ponder each premise, no matter how subtle,Until I've produced a convincing rebuttal.

I trust that Existence adheres to strict rules,Which humans may seek with sharp reasoning tools.We may not succeed in our ultimate quest,But that's no excuse for not trying our best.If Data and Logic advance hand in hand,The bounds of our knowledge will surely expand;And let us consider the unorthodox,The better to loosen conceptual blocks.

Some types of philosopher shun this approach;They waffle, and hate to let Reason encroachUpon their unqualified relativism,Which views simple facts through a scattering prism.They see True and False as in no way distinct,And scoff at Reduction, for "all things are linked".With such scorn for Method, how can we progress?I think my approach has more chance of success.

So this is the principle which I hold dear:Please keep your mind open, but make your thoughts clear.

Poem: Mathematical Reality

If I told you that Existence and the Universe aren't physical,You'd ask if I was kidding, or at least look highly quizzical,And if I then proceeded to say all is mathematics,You'd snort with disbelief, but praise my mental acrobatics.

There is a recent theory, though, that things in their totalityAre solved equations, which do not describe, but are, reality.Mind-shattering complexity reflects their cosmic scope;We couldn't fully reproduce them in our wildest hope.

And yet, if we had knowledge to the ultimate degree,We'd find that they amount to everything we hear and see.They're perfectly defined, admitting nothing vague or random,Because they're made of numbers and combining rules in tandem.

All these equations must exist, and have no need of God;They constitute their own computer, though that may seem odd;They don't require to be conceived by Man or other creatures;They just sit there eternally as necessary features.

Now, whether this convinces you depends on your ontology;You may, for instance, challenge it for reasons of theology.The skeptics will declare the base assumptions unreliable;Empiricists may claim the theory's quite unfalsifiable.

Should I proclaim it nonsense on conservatives' behalf?Or will the Oblads and the Tegmarks have the final laugh?

"Permit me, though, to say that Space and TimeAre side-effects of something more sublime.It may be solvedBy humans if they finally attainThe necessary wisdom, when their brainIs more evolved."

I sighed in wonderment, alloyed with gloom,For such a revelation seemed to doomMy lifetime search;I understood why those with lofty aimsSeize on the grand but unsupported claimsOne hears in church.

And then, amid the data-streams so bright,I spied a hair-thin grid of laser light,Or so I thought.Its lines formed curious polyhedral sections,Which the dynamic pattern of reflectionsServed to distort.

"Those filaments", the spirit-face explained,"Allow co-ordinates to be obtainedIn 7D.For in this awesome, vast and complex realm,Geometry can even overwhelmGreat gods like me."

At every junction of the lucent net,Some symbols from an alien alphabetDimly appeared.I asked myself if I was really seeingThe key to some exalted plane of Being –It was too weird!

But suddenly the whole perplexing sceneFragmented into pixels on a screen,Then faded out...Though still I probe the riddle of Existence,I now suspect the fruits of such persistenceMust be in doubt.

Re: The Philosopher's Dream

In the poem, I imagine a philosopher falling asleep with his/her mind full of different philosophical and scientific theories about the nature of the universe. These become mixed together in a vivid dream. On waking, the philosopher realises that the images were not real, but they nevertheless impress upon him/her that the range of possibilities is so great that we may never be able to fathom ultimate reality.

Re: The Philosopher's Dream

On my book, 'Advances Philosophy Book!', all the experiences are real, so I thought I'd ask. I am up to page 100 of a new book of which I am working on a lot. I was hoping to obtain feedback on the first one so that I would be aware if I should publish this new improved different book.

Re: The Philosophy of Religion: A Poem

From Odds and Ends:"Humanity can be divided broadly into two"by Positor

Humanity can be divided broadly into two:The folk who cherish certainty and guard a settled view,And those who probe disputed points in search of synthesis;Both types are represented on discussion boards like this.

Consider first the dogmatists, who can be further splitInto the would-be saints and seers who thrive on holy writAnd confident contrarians who circumvent hard queriesWith notions that the mods reject and shunt into "Alt Theories".

Apologists of faith may harp on ancient myths or quarrels,Condemn the modern world in terms of antiquated morals,Anathematize reason as a tactic of the Devil,Or put forth other statements at that qualitative level.

The mavericks – the ones who scorn the physics paradigm –Incur the wrath of scientists for wasting precious time:"All tests have proved you wrong, so there is really no excuse...Go on, then, show your formulae. You can't? Oh, what's the use!"

In contrast, honest thinkers read, revise and ruminate;No inference is final, no result beyond debate.The world's a complicated place, and open-minded teachersCan offer more enlightenment than cocksure public preachers.