The first one is
education. As a former tile contractor, I felt I knew exactly that I needed
to do. But I cut myself short, so at Schluter Systems we pride ourselves on education.
So, I would I would challenge anybody listening to be more educated about what
they’re doing whether it’s their business or whether it’s about installation.

The second one is
don’t be afraid to make money.

The third one is align yourself with good partners. And I feel that Schluter Systems is that partner. You know most anybody that is in sales for Schluter has installed, so we’ve been there and we take great pride in that.

Carey Bros Pros Phil
Woodruff Schluter Systems.mp3

James [00:00:00] I’m
James and it’s great to have you with us on this, another edition of
CareyBrosPros.

Morris [00:00:06] And
I’m Morris, and yes, we are professional contractors and brothers.

James [00:00:11] And
welcome to this special podcast from the International Builders Show and
Kitchen Bath Industry Show 2019. We are in Las Vegas Nevada. Water is a
contractor’s biggest nightmare for callbacks. That’s no news to you listening.
It’s leaking plumbing or break down and waterproofing or moisture barriers
that’s typically the root of most water related problems.

James [00:00:50] So
we have had the opportunity to work with Schluter product for many years. We’re
familiar with it. We understand the value proposition of the Schluter System.
And it is a system.

Phil [00:01:04] It
is.

James [00:01:04] That
consists of Kurdi board, Kurdi fixed, there’s Ditra heat, you have uncoupling
product. You have a lot of different solutions as part of your system to offer
to our designers, architects, builders, and remodelers. Why don’t you take us
through a little bit of what Schluter has to offer.

Phil [00:01:27] Yes
I’d like to talk about the new products that we’ve got this year.

James [00:01:31] Yeah
we’ll do all that too. We’ll do all of that.

Phil [00:01:32] Please!

James [00:01:32] But
let’s paint with the broad brush first. Tell us about what you have.

Phil [00:01:36] While
Schluter Systems is a tile installation manufacturer, we sell systems Feifer
treatments of profiles on tile. We’ve got underlayments that heat your tile,
keep your tile from cracking. And then the one that you called out is the
shower system where we’re were completely waterproofing the envelope of the
shower, keeping water out of the wall cavity.

Morris [00:01:59] Is
project planning a part of what you guys do?

Phil [00:02:02] I
wouldn’t say project planning is what we do, but we have the ability to help
the contractor, the pro, to plan you know through education, through our
website, as well as, you know, our videos we know what you guys are doing.

James [00:02:15] Yeah.
And I have to tell you we have lots of videos I know that you have a research
and development facility. You have a space where you demonstrate how the
product is fabricated and assembled in specific uses. And I’ve got to tell you
one of my first projects I had taken such terrific pride in building this wood
bench in the shower. I built a wood bench, as we have traditionally had a
little bit of fall. OK. So that when the tile went on water wouldn’t pond, it
would sheet off the bench. And the fellow who was intimately familiar with
utilizing Schluter took a hammer and tore the bench out and he said oh I built
my benches this way and he used the Kurdi board.

Phil [00:03:03] Kurdi
board!

James [00:03:03] And
created a bench out of Kurdi board. It took me an hour and a half to do that
bench. It took him about 15 minutes to build the bench.

Phil [00:03:14] And
the bench that you built that he tore out was not waterproof was it?

James [00:03:18] It
was not Waterproof.

Morris [00:03:19] No!
But the bench he built was, and it was so quick and easy to build and so
strong.

James [00:03:25] I
should also tell you that he tore out the pressure treated threshold that I had
fastened to the concrete slab. That went out with the bench. And of course he
used Kurdi board there as well and he used Kurdi fix. And I don’t know whether
you have a product called Kurdi fix. He called it Kurdi Fix but it’s the thin
set which is the thin set adhesive, the mortar, and he attached the Kurdi to
the concrete with that.

Phil [00:03:53] Yeah.
Kerdi Fix a siliconised eurothane.

James [00:03:56] Ok.

Phil [00:03:56] Yeah.
So it’s a caulk.

James [00:03:57] Yeah.

Phil [00:03:57] Yeah.
And then we do have then set as well that sets your tile but yeah getting that
pressure treated lumber out of the out of the curb is important. It’s just
going to swell and wreak havoc.

James [00:04:07] So
let’s talk a little bit more about, and I know you have new products that- but
what is the real value proposition for the pros listening if we have a designer
listening or an architect that’s doing product specification and wants to
design something really unique, really exciting, and really durable. Or a
builder listening who wants to make sure that the installed product has
terrific integrity, will last and they won’t end up losing their profit by
going back and making repairs down the road. What’s the value proposition
associated?

Phil [00:04:43] The
value proposition with Schluter is “it’s not what you see it’s what you
get.” So not only are you going to have a waterproof complete shower
behind this beautiful tile work. It’s going to last. We’re looking at a
lifetime warranty if you use our thin set to put our membranes together so
whether using Kurdi board which is a waterproof panel or whether you’re using
Kurdi membrane it’s all integrating with our shower system which is a bonding
flange, the drain. And then we’ve got the shower trays that eliminate having to
dry pack, sand and cement. So we’re we’re expediting. Not only are we are we
making a shower system that’s got warranty and the builder doesn’t ever have to
worry about that callback. The homeowner doesn’t have to worry about mold or
mildew. We’re doing it a whole lot faster.

James [00:05:28] Talk
about that for a moment. You said a mouthful there and it may not have had the
opportunity to sink in among our listeners and that is a shower tray eliminates
the dry pack.

Phil [00:05:42] Yes.

James [00:05:43] Speak
to that. Talk about the shower tray.

Phil [00:05:45] Definitely.
You know being a former tile contractor for almost 20 years we learn how to
build showers by somebody else. And you know our education director Andy Acker
talks about the telephone game and that’s a lot of the way how tile has been
taught over the years. So you know Morris maybe you’re a tile setter and I come
to work for you and you build a shower a particular way. I go out on my own. I
don’t like the way you did it. I changed some things. And so the problem is is
that there’s we call him Franken-showers. Everybody has a different way of
building a shower. And it’s typically done with a two stage drain.

James [00:06:23] [laughs]
Francken-showers! I love it.

Morris [00:06:25] Franken-showers
[ laughs].

James [00:06:26] Scars
and all!

Phil [00:06:26] Scars
and all and it’s got that shower pan liner, that bladder underneath, that the
dry pack goes in. And that’s the slope to the drain. The problem arises once that
mud gets wet it is wet for the life of the shower. And then you got to look at
how the curve is constructed. Is that water that’s saturating that mud bed is
it soaking up the walls at the back backer board?

Morris [00:06:45] yes
it is!

Phil [00:06:45] And
we know it happens. It is, you’re right
and now it’s in the wall cavity.

Morris [00:06:48] It
is it takes 20 years but it rots everything around it.

Phil [00:06:52] And
we’re building our houses so tight now energy efficient there’s no natural air
exchange in that wall cavity. So the moisture.

James [00:07:00] That
would otherwise dry it out dry it out.

Phil [00:07:02] And
so it’s an old system that was probably developed in the 1920s and whenever I
speak to a group of contractors you know I say hey know give me your cell
phone. Now you’ve got to go use a pager again because really that technology
has changed.

James [00:07:14] I
see I see where the telephone analogy comes in. Now I get it.

Phil [00:07:18] Yes.
So you know when we look at when we look at this the value proposition for a
builder. The last thing he wants to do is get the phone call from Mrs. Jones
two years later that his shower is leaking.

James [00:07:31] Right!
Tile’s beautiful.

Morris [00:07:31] And
that’s the one thing that the Schluter design prevents.

Phil [00:07:35] Absolutely.

Morris [00:07:36] And
that’s a buildup of moisture. There’s no trade to hold water. It is a
waterproof surface from top to bottom front to back.

Phil [00:07:45] Absolutely
highest water source all the way down to our drain.

Morris [00:07:48] Bam.

Phil [00:07:49] Bam
done.

James [00:07:49] And
somebody might say well wait a minute this dry pack has fall so that there’s
proper watershed to the drain in the system.

Phil [00:07:58] And
our shower trays have that fall whether it’s a.

James [00:08:01] Built
in.

Phil [00:08:02] Built
in line drain or a point drain. But the thing that I think the pros need to
also understand is that the flexibility of our system, another added value is,
if you still want to do the traditional dry pack sand and cement you can
install our bonding flange float your mud off of it and then put the Kurdi
membrane over the top of the mud bag. So it’s very flexible.

James [00:08:21] One
of the standard issues with a.

Morris [00:08:25] Waste
of time and money [laughs]

James [00:08:26] A
Roman drain drain. You have your waterproof membrane. You have the Roman drain
that sandwiches that waterproof membrane within the two the components.

Morris [00:08:35] Don’t
do need that anymore.

James [00:08:37] There
are weap poles that are part of that you know that as a tile contractor that’s
not part of the new Schluter drain system. That’s not something you need to
deal with. That’s not something you need to worry about.

Phil [00:08:49] Because
the waterproofing is connected on top and not from underneath.

Morris [00:08:53] Correct.

Phil [00:08:54] Yes.

Morris [00:08:55] Oh
it took me 20 years to learn about Schluter from the day I first heard about it
and when I finally realized what the system worked like I just thought why
haven’t we been doing this all the time why did we wait so long.

Phil [00:09:12] Because
we don’t know what we don’t know and.

James [00:09:14] We
don’t know what we don’t know.

Phil [00:09:15] And
you know and typically what we hear at Schluter Systems is I’ve been doing it
this way for however long and I never had a problem.

James [00:09:23] Right.

Phil [00:09:23] The
problem is is that you don’t know they don’t have a problem right because you
can get moisture in your wall cavity. It’s not leaking. But what is that
moisture turning into.

Morris [00:09:32] Right.
Rot.

Phil [00:09:34] mold.

James [00:09:35] That’s
another issue. I want to talk about a couple of things that components that you
have the linear drains.

Phil [00:09:42] Yeah.

James [00:09:43] They’re
wonderful. You can have a linear drain that you can tile over so that it
disappears and it’s just awesome. Or you can have a linear drain with the
decorative grate or traditional round or square finish. In a variety of
finishes.

Phil [00:10:01] Yup.

James [00:10:01] Now
you have a drain for those of us who do a lot of construction work. On slab on
grade and most of our clients aren’t looking for a smaller shower than they
currently have, they’re looking for a bigger shower which means that we’re
going to center the drain. We’re going to need to move it a little bit which
means jack hammering out concrete and doing rough plumbing. You’ve solved that
with a new product that you’ve introduced to the show. Tell us about.

Phil [00:10:28] We’ve
got a Kurdi drain H for a horizontal drain outlet. And as long as we’re within
24 inches of the trap we can put that drain anywhere in the shower and then run
the waistline to the 2 inch line to the existing trap. So you’re exactly right.
If I’ve got or if I’ve got structure that I can’t get through I can go over the
top of it to get to the trap it’s a very flexible system it is going to raise
the floor up the shower pan up.

Morris [00:10:52] But
we’re talking inches not feet.

Phil [00:10:55] Correct.
Yep.

Morris [00:10:56] That’s
really wonderful. You know we know what the Schluter product can be used for
now, but how does a contractor go about learning how to do the Schluter System?

James [00:11:06] Yeah.

Phil [00:11:07] Well
there’s there’s two avenues. One is we would invite anybody that’s in the trade
to one of our workshops. We hosted last year over 300 two day seminars free to
the trade.

James [00:11:19] Wow.

Phil [00:11:19] All
you have to do is get there. We also do architectural.

James [00:11:23] Will
you put me up and feed me?

Phil [00:11:24] Absolutely!

James [00:11:25] [laughs]
You know you don’t know you’re out.

Morris [00:11:29] [laughs]

Phil [00:11:30] Typically
if you’re over an hour away from the venue we include two hotel nights and five
really good meals.

James [00:11:37] Wow.
we know because we sent crew members up.

Phil [00:11:40] Yes
so that that information you know even find that it schluter.com at the
Education tab. The other thing is is that we have lost track of the amount of
YouTube videos on our on our YouTube channel. Schluter Systems number one. Last
I knew there was over a hundred and fifty different videos that are shot by our
team in Montreal.

James [00:12:00] It’s
wonderful. Now you have another new product that you’ve rolled out at the show
and it’s decorative and it’s in that corner of a shower or a shower over a tub.
Tell us about it. I’m very excited.

Phil [00:12:11] We’ve
jumped into the corner shelves. So we have three versions, three styles.
They’re based off of the designer grate. So we’ve got a shelf that will fit
into our slides behind the tile on the wall.

Morris [00:12:25] And
it matches the drain grate!

Phil [00:12:26] Matches
the drain grate.

Morris [00:12:27] Oh
that’s cool!

Phil [00:12:28] Yeah.
And then we have three options that would fit into the grout joints into the
corner. Those can be installed with the tile or.

James [00:12:35] Or
retrofit!

Phil [00:12:36] Retrofit.

James [00:12:37] I’m
loving that dude. I’m all over that.

Phil [00:12:39] And
then the last thing that I think is really cool but simple is the niche shelf.
So instead of you know that bulky piece of
Kurdi board in our niche, now we have the shelf that will just slide in
a stainless steel 3 30 seconds very clean matching again as you said.

James [00:12:55] And
speaking of niches you have prefabricated niches for them for ease of
installation of a niche and for the waterproofing.

Phil [00:13:03] Absolutely.
You know as you talk all of our products whether you’re talking about the ditra
heat or the the uncoupling the Kurdi board it all integrates together. So if
you want to do a curbless shower you can make that all work. We can waterproof
it from the doorway to the drain.

James [00:13:18] I
love it. Or as we say stem to stern stem.

Phil [00:13:21] Stem
to stern!

James [00:13:22] Alright
Phil. It’s that time when during our CareyBrosPros podcast we ask our guest to
share three points for success that you’d like to leave them with and their
businesses.

Phil [00:13:33] Perfect.
I think the first one that I want to talk about is education. As a former tile
contractor I felt I knew exactly in everything that I needed to do. But I cut
myself short so at Shcluter Systems we pride ourselves on education. So I would
I would challenge anybody listening to be more educated about what they’re
doing whether it’s their business or whether it’s about installation. Guess the
second one is don’t be afraid to make money.

James [00:13:57] What
a novel idea!

Morris [00:13:58] What
a novel idea!

James [00:14:00] With
all the risk and pressure that we’re under.

Phil [00:14:02] Absolutely.

James [00:14:03] All
of the liability that we accept, what a novel idea.

[00:14:06] Exactly. And you know and then the
third one is align yourself with good partners. And I feel that Schluter
Systems is that partner. You know most anybody that that is in sales for
Schluter has installed. So we’ve been there and we take great pride in that.

James [00:14:22] Wow.
Three terrific points.

Morris [00:14:24] Really
good. Good points. Our thanks to Phil Woodruff with Schluter Systems for
spending time with us on this episode of CareyBrosPros. You can learn more
about their products and services at their web site Schluter.com.

James [00:14:44] But
remember if you’re looking for information about any of our guests including
Phil as well as other podcasts videos and articles, simply check out our
website. It is careybrospros.com.

James [00:14:57] Phil,
as always a pleasure. Thanks so much for joining us.

About Us

James and Morris Carey, known as The Carey Bros., are nationally recognized experts on home building and renovation. They share their experience as award-winning, licensed contractors with millions of people nationwide through a weekly radio and online streaming show. The CareyBrosPros is a way to reach the contractor and professional and share our experience, wisdom and weekly tips.