That must be why NK was penalized (oh wait, I forgot there is a FIA conspiracy to make Red Bull and Vettel champions). In any case, the comparison to Alonso is not entirely fair, as the Spaniard did not have to face much adversity recently, other than not having a car with the best pace on average (by adversity, I mean things like competition and pressure from the team-mate, criticism/attacks by the media or other drivers, FIA penalties, losing many points because of car failures, etc.). Replace Massa with Hamilton in the other Ferrari, give him equal status, and see what happens then.

Replace Webber with Hamilton in the other Red Bull, give him equal status, and see what happens then.

I am not the one who is coming out making comparisons or judging how "petulant" drivers are.

To be honest I am just sick of people making completely unfounded claims or trying to equate incomparable situations. Am I a fanboy for not letting just any claim go unchallenged?

I thought I saw you make a few truckloads of similar 'unfounded claims', so I had a look.

Personally speaking, Fernando seems a bit "butthurt" and I don't get it. I'm not trying to say he should be looking happy or anything but he is looking more that a bit downbeat.

He's had a great season personally on his part so nothing to feel bad about there. He's done his job.

I don't get why he suddenly feels the need to keep pointing out it's really hard to beat RedBull. Yes Fernando we know, RBR have the best car right now and they are winning the races, that's how F1 works, best car wins.

It's almost as if he feels under pressure or someone is suggesting he's not that good, only no one is doing that at least out in the open. If anything he has had the concensous best or at the very least equal best season this year.

So it didn't take long to find BS related to petulance.

I honestly think you should have a look at your own posts, you are not very constructive most of the time, certainly not enough to be the thread police.

How am I denigrating Hamilton through his fan? Like wut? This makes no sense.

And I said it above, the driver threads are a joke for the most part and I rarely go in there.(and regret it almost every time I do)

Also what do you mean by "it's impossible to post a positive thing about Hamilton without a volley of negative posts". What constitutes a "positive" post? What is a negative post? And who said we can't have both. Can you give me an example?

lol (I agree though, and unlike you I do rarely go in there)

And just to be clear:

Anyone is, of course, free to think whatever they want of Vettel's demeanour overall. If you think he is childish or whatever that is your prerogative.

phew.. thank you. For a second I thought you were sick of people making claims on the internet.

Villeneuve has a point. Vettel is not immune to have his cage rattled in when adversity crosses his path. He was lucky not to DNF in Abu Dhabi after his handful of crashes.

Umm, Villeneuve never has a point. That's his point, to say controversial **** and get people (for some reason) to answer.

Not surprised to see some getting caught up in a couple of radio messages though, but it doesn't change the fact that Alonso doesn't come close to Vettel's mental toughness over their careers. Actually Alonso has raised his game in that department in 2012, which I give him credit for.

Villeneuve has a point. Vettel is not immune to have his cage rattled in when adversity crosses his path. He was lucky not to DNF in Abu Dhabi after his handful of crashes.

You have small hands if that's a handful.

Single Vettel out to critize him on something most drivers do, is bad form.But to then say Alonso is a saint in comparison, in the department where Fernando excels on the negative, is just mind-boggling.It's like Mika Häkkinen can only win when his team mates drive get out of his way, and then go on to praise Schumacher and Alonso for doing it all on their own.

"For me, it has confirmed what I think about Vettel," Villeneuve told Autosprint of the race in Abu Dhabi. "These are facts: while recovering from the back, he first got in contact with Senna who was ahead of him and damaged his front wing.

"Then he lost control of his car and crashed under the safety car. A very serious error that had light consequences. As for the rest, he has shown to be super quick, but he was lucky and I'm not changing my mind: Alonso deserves the 2012 title more."

When it comes to a head to head comparison between the two, Villeneuve is of the opinion that Alonso is superior mentally and emotionally, meaning that the Ferrari man is a better driver who is able to react effectively to different situations.

"I have no doubts: Fernando Alonso is the best, that's why I root for him," said the 1997 title winner.

"Seb is super quick, but there is a difference with Fernando that emerges in case of an unfavourable situation.

"Alonso remains calm, cool, and rational, while Vettel most of times gets upset, angry, screams and flicks the middle finger. He reacts like a child.

"These behaviours indicate two different states of maturity but, let's be clear, Sebastian is an ace too; however, he struggles more in critical situations.

"He looks almost unbeatable when he leads, but if he needs to catch up he becomes vulnerable.".......

Okay JV. Tell you what, you just hold on to your opinion. For my part, I don't want Vettel to change a thing because whatever he is doing is working beautifully.

May Seb remain immature, uncool, uncalm and irrational in JV's eyes - to me that is picking parts, but that is immaterial - whatever he is, long may he continue so.

What? Trulli for example went also from pitlane to podium in Australia 2009, without DRS, 6 "lesser teams" cars and 2 Toro Rossos.

and 4 cars less, and more faster driver-car combos DNFing from in front of him, and with a DSQ-d Hamilton, who was rightfuly in front of him before letting Trulli past (but then came the liegate which is another matter)

and 4 cars less, and more faster driver-car combos DNFing from in front of him, and with a DSQ-d Hamilton, who was rightfuly in front of him before letting Trulli past (but then came the liegate which is another matter)

And of course, Vettel didn't have any car DNFing And also, having a 20 field car is less challenging than having 6 Caterhams/Marussias/HRTs plus 2 Toro Rossos, which effectively make a field of 16...It's set in stone then, Vettel had the best comeback in history!

And of course, Vettel didn't have any car DNFing And also, having a 20 field car is less challenging than having 6 Caterhams/Marussias/HRTs plus 2 Toro Rossos, which effectively make a field of 16...It's set in stone then, Vettel had the best comeback in history!

It's like you don't even care about a normal discussion. Just swinging the discussion from one extreme to the other. Unfortunately that's something that is often seen when people can't accept their point being broken. Completely leave content behind and attack form.

1. He said 'more front cars DNF'ing'.2. If you count back the field to effectively 16 for AD12, then at least have the decensy to cut out FI, TR and ML out of AU09.

Quite bitter as usual, aren't you. The last ones are clearly his fault.

Well yea, all situations i mentioned are his fault.... It's his fault for behaving the way he did after the events transpired. That's what i was replying to. I can add dropping F-bombs on the podium too. JV isn't far off the mark...

I'm not bitter. Just not a fan of Seb's behavior on and off the track.

It's like you don't even care about a normal discussion. Just swinging the discussion from one extreme to the other. Unfortunately that's something that is often seen when people can't accept their point being broken. Completely leave content behind and attack form.

1. He said 'more front cars DNF'ing'.2. If you count back the field to effectively 16 for AD12, then at least have the decensy to cut out FI, TR and ML out of AU09.

I don't think saying that Vettel's comeback was the best one in history after Japan 2005 invites to a normal discussion.Anyway, Trulli didn't have a huge car advantage either.

At Kyalami 84 Prost started from the pit lane and finished on 2nd position overtaking 24 cars.

He overtook Alliot,Boutsen,Surer,Ceccotto,Palmer,Brundle,Baldi,Bellof,Hesnault,Senna,Patrese
,De Cesaris,Winkelhock and Mansell on just 12 laps and then he overtook Arnoux,Laffitte,Alboreto,De Angelis,Tambay and Warwick in another 18 laps just to reach the P3. However he had pit stop problems and after that jumped back at the P9.

Despite it, he finally finished 2nd. And just Cheever, Piquet and De Angelis retired before Prost overtook them.

Maybe 2005 is the nearest reference, but imo SV backup is not the "top of the tops" but this one. I consider one of the greastest ever, of course, but still Alain Prost or Kimi Raikkonen at Suzuka were much better than Seb.

My opinion: Vettel is the youngest double world champion and has kept himself in contention for the WDC in every car that was capable of winning it. Asking more of a driver is a bit disingenuous.

Sebastian is a remarkable driver, leaving his mark on the sport before our eyes. Enjoy.

And I agree with that mostly. Not asking him to do anything, but I think that he's lacking when he is out of his comfort zone, although my opinion can change over time. Also, don't agree that it was the second best comeback in history, it is just laughable.

Language at the last race was/is/will be an issue for next a few years just because it is Vettel, who seems to upheld always to a different standard than other drivers. First it was his history, than performance, followed by finger, allegation of preferential treatment over Webber, now a bad word, and it never ends.

Language at the last race was/is/will be an issue for next a few years just because it is Vettel, who seems to upheld always to a different standard than other drivers. First it was his history, than performance, followed by finger, allegation of preferential treatment over Webber, now a bad word, and it never ends.

You have to look at the positive side. Some people will always dislike a person for whatever reason and try to find flaws even were they are not to be able to ubhold their personal dislike. Especially from other fans there is a lot of hidden envy at the success of another driver which of course can never be as good as (Lewis) or (Alonso). So such posts make me always smile.

he didn't look, or sound Rattled in the PC, which is where he made those comments, in fact it looked and sounded like he was having a proper laugh with Kimi.

If you are telling the reporter that those who got offended should go watch a "kid's programme" and he only apologizes if he offended anyone, he was pretty upset, annoyed and rattled about the question.

By the way, millions of boys and girls under 10 years of age watch F1. So, Formula 1 is in fact a "kid's programme"

And I agree with that mostly. Not asking him to do anything, but I think that he's lacking when he is out of his comfort zone, although my opinion can change over time.

Lacking in what regard? If you agree with JV, I've already given my opinion about that. But perhaps you have different criteria?

The thing about JV is that he contradicts himself. Before when he criticized Vettel for his immaturity, it concerned a time when Vettel WAS in his comfort zone - leading at the front. On that occassion, he went for fastest lap against his team's wishes and JV was beside himself in denegrating Vettel for his behavior. So while he is now banging on about "comfort zones", his lack of maturity rants regarding Vettel have no real boundaries.

I don't want to assume your opinion matches JV's for that reason, so I'd prefer it if you would state your own basis for your thoughts.

Also, don't agree that it was the second best comeback in history, it is just laughable.

If you are telling the reporter that those who got offended should go watch a "kid's programme" and he only apologizes if he offended anyone, he was pretty upset, annoyed and rattled about the question.

By the way, millions of boys and girls under 10 years of age watch F1. So, Formula 1 is in fact a "kid's programme"

I'm sorry, but if you think those millions of boys and girls under 10 have never hear the words f*ck or sh*t before, you are extremely naive.

If you don't understand the difference between saying something like "we could have f*cked it up" and "you are a dity motherf*cking son of a female-dog", you should probably come to Amsterdam and smoke a few to losen up a little and get a more realistic view on life.

I'm sorry, but if you think those millions of boys and girls under 10 have never hear the words f*ck or sh*t before, you are extremely naive.

If you don't understand the difference between saying something like "we could have f*cked it up" and "you are a dity motherf*cking son of a female-dog", you should probably come to Amsterdam and smoke a few to losen up a little and get a more realistic view on life.

We have this discussion because perhaps not everyone wants to talk like that, and imposing oneself upon another person's principles spells nothing but trouble. Internet is medium that invites clash of cultures and personalities, thus applying brakes upon how much we let ourselves go are probably a good thing. Just because kids are used to foul language it doesn’t implies, we should simply continue on that path. Period.

A few days ago I have been exposed to a conversation of high school students, in which just about every other sentence contained several really obscene expressions, and initially from ignoring it, in a few minutes it has become burden, and I could not turned off, not to mention that I was unable to comprehend what was actually said. Lack of vocabulary gets in a way of expressing concepts in understandable terms, which I think is detriment to society as a whole. With Seb, and again, I am one of his staunches supporters, I understand that a word slipped out of his mouth, but he needs to tune it down, and not only on the podium, because bad habits are hard to control, and even if he feels it’s OK in his private life, podium, paddock, and microphone are not, and if people do not like it, cork it by cultivating habits that are acceptable to majority!

Thanks dude. Actually the main point I was making wasnt even to highlight where Seb's drive stacked up among all the drives from pitlane in history but what a trying weekend a certain Canadian Singer cum Driver would have had considering his constant urge to badmouth the 2 drivers who had extremely good race in Abu Dhabi.

But honestly - there arent many drives from the back of the field in the first place and as they go Seb's was definitely one of the greatest especially considering he lost the advantage due to the extra wing stop. Otherwise he would have won - Crazy to even think on a circuit Alonso had trouble getting past a mediocre driver and car when his title depended on it , a couple of years back !!

We have this discussion because perhaps not everyone wants to talk like that, and imposing oneself upon another person's principles spells nothing but trouble. Internet is medium that invites clash of cultures and personalities, thus applying brakes upon how much we let ourselves go are probably a good thing. Just because kids are used to foul language it doesn’t implies, we should simply continue on that path. Period.

Are you not imposing your principles upon us now?I am sure there were muslims offended by the cross Räikkönen made (didn't know he was Christian). Should he have been warned for that because their principles were imposed upon?

Do you know how many current-day words were considered unthinkable back in the day?Get with the times...

Are you not imposing your principles upon us now?I am sure there were muslims offended by the cross Räikkönen made (didn't know he was Christian). Should he have been warned for that because their principles were imposed upon?

Do you know how many current-day words were considered unthinkable back in the day?Get with the times...

Asking for less colorful language is an imposition on personal liberty and then conclude by telling me to get on with the program is just fine? Sorry, but I am not buying that.

I'm sorry, but if you think those millions of boys and girls under 10 have never hear the words f*ck or sh*t before, you are extremely naive.

If you don't understand the difference between saying something like "we could have f*cked it up" and "you are a dity motherf*cking son of a female-dog", you should probably come to Amsterdam and smoke a few to losen up a little and get a more realistic view on life.

You are barking at the wrong tree.

Tell that to the Formula 1 sponsors who put billions of dollars of marketing money each year so that F1 can exist. Sponsors cash in on the Formula 1 image to make their money. The minute that image is tarnished, their business model goes down the drain.

We fans are plain spectators of the sport and what we think is correct or not is worthless. Until each of us starts giving 10000 to 20000 dollars per year to fund F1 we just have to deal with the FIA regulations and the decisions of those who pay the bills. Being a private business, they have the right to set their own rules and allow what makes them money and prohibit what makes them lose money.