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Interview: Notch on What's Next for Mojang

After more or less rewriting PC gaming's rulebook with Minecraft, Mojang now finds itself in a bit of an awkward position. No longer an up-and-coming one-man show, the house that Minecraft built has now stacked a number of additional hats atop Notch's trademark: mid-sized developer, upstart publisher, and possible Psychonauts 2 angel investor, among others. What's next? Does Mojang even have a plan? We sat down with Notch and grilled him on those topics and many others, including his thoughts on EA's Origin, Kickstarter, and the pressure of being inextricably linked to a behemoth like Minecraft.

GameSpy: You're trying to move away from the "that company that made Minecraft" label. So why follow Minecraft -- in all its universal "LEGO for grown-ups" appeal -- with a trading card-style game in Scrolls? That definitely seems like a very niche-y step off the beaten path.

Notch: We followed with Scrolls because that's what we wanted to do. Jakob [Porser] and I discussed making a game like Scrolls for many years before I even started Minecraft. And then the plan was kind of to eventually at some point start this company. Originally, though, it was just part time. But then, when Minecraft took off, we decided "Let's just start the company now and make Scrolls."

And the idea with Mojang is to make games we ourselves want to make -- rather than just make the most mainstream games possible. And whenever I'm the designer, they might be more mass appeal-y, but we'll see.

GameSpy: What's it like being so well-known for one specific thing? I mean, if I hear "Notch" -- even if someone's referring to a hole in a belt or something -- I immediately think Minecraft. Some gamers seem convinced that you're incapable of making anything else. What sort of pressure does that put on you? Is it a gift? Is it a curse? Are you Spider-Man?

Notch: It's pretty cool. I like meeting fans and getting recognized and having people talk to me. I like that part of it.

It makes it a bit hard, like, when I start a new game -- to not feel the pressure that I have to top Minecraft or something. But that's something I've been struggling with for a while, and I think should be able to do it. As long as I'm prepared to put in the same level of effort, I should be OK.

Good news! Bethesda says it can be called Scrolls now.

GameSpy: So, Psychonauts 2. Any updates?

Notch: It's the same as it was. Nothing's happened that hasn't been public yet. I'm going to meet with Tim Schafer during GDC and talk with him about all the things -- congratulate him on Kickstarter and stuff. [Here is Notch discussing the outcome of that meeting.]

But we'll see. If they still want to do it and the numbers are reasonable -- if I think I might actually have a return on the investment and stuff -- I would love do it. But it's not a charity, and I'd rather give money to, like, indie developers than a big established studio that probably would be able to do it eventually.

GameSpy: Do you think Double Fine would be able to pull it off without your rather massive pile of pixelated cash on its side, though? If someone as creatively focused as you passed on Psychonauts 2, I can't imagine a big publisher would say, "OK, yeah, let's take this insane gamble that even Notch wouldn't touch."

Notch: If it was less money -- because originally, I thought it was, like, $2 million -- then I would be more inclined to take a larger risk with that. But it seems to be five to 10 times that amount of money. And that's super-much money.

But I think Psychnoauts 1 did surprisingly poorly in sales, which is bizarre. Sure, it's kinda niche, but it has huge personality and only one bad level: the meat circus. So I think there's definitely room for a Psychonauts 2 to sell well. Especially now, because you could treat as not necessarily a triple-A project. I mean, you can't make it too small scale, because it needs to top the first one. But things like indie games sell and make lots of money.

GameSpy: At this point, what's your long-term goal for Mojang? I mean, Minecraft's still going strong, Scrolls is on deck, and you're publishing Cobalt. So are you about where you want to be size-wise? Would you like to publish more third-party games?

Notch: I think the idea is to get games that are made by people who want to make games. Either we can develop in-house or publish with people who want to make something slightly different. Because the Cobalt thing is working great.

But one key thing for us with publishing is that we insist they keep the IP. We don't want to lock it down, because we want the developers to be really dedicated to the product. So we'll see. Cobalt was an experiment and it seems to be working well. We're looking into expanding on it, but we realize we need dedicated personnel for it. Otherwise it takes too much time.

When it comes to the size of the company, I think we're getting really close [to what we want]. We're about 20 people now, and I think 25 to 30 might be the perfect size for us.

You WILL give Psychonauts all your money!

GameSpy: You stepped down from being the brains behind Minecraft recently, so what's your role within the company these days? Is it more organizational, or are you off in your own little corner, churning out the next infinitely meme-able Internet sensation?

Notch: It's kind of a combination of those two. Not really organizational, but almost like PR stuff and trying to decide what we should do and what angles we should take. Like, I was pushing really hard for us to do the [Humble Mojang Bundle] charity weekend.

But creatively, I'm taking a bit of a break and recharging my batteries. This summer, I'm hoping to start a new big project.

GameSpy: What was it like handing Minecraft off to someone else? I mean, it was your blocky, occasionally explosive baby for years. Are you happy with your decision?

Notch: Yeah, it was a bit frightening. Fortunately, Jens and I had worked on Minecraft together for a year. So for the last year before I passed it on to him, it wasn't really my game. I had to, like, accept everything, but over the year, there were only two or three things that I said "No" to or didn't put in the game.

So I felt somewhat secure, and ever since then, I haven't regretted the decision. It brings stuff to the game that I was afraid of doing. That's what the game needs.

The Cobalt experiment is a success! Also, a game you can play.

GameSpy: So do you still have some input from time-to-time? Like, do you ever go "Ehhhh, maybe we shouldn't do that"?

Notch: Not really when it comes to gameplay. Like, I can make a business-level [decisions]. I come at it like I'm the chairman of the board, but I haven't really...

Well, yeah, I did the blog post about gathering players' data and asking if it was OK if we did that. And people said yes. I actually did implement that [technology] myself. It was the first time I added content to Minecraft in a long time.

GameSpy: Have you used any of that data to improve the game yet?

Notch: No, we just put in the basic systems, just to get something in there. So it's just like which game mode people are playing.

GameSpy: Given that you've been a major part of PC gaming's recent evolution, I'm sure you've kept up with recent developments like EA's Origin. It's been gaining publisher traction but pissing off a veritable army of keyboard warriors. What's your take on that, though? Does EA need to shape up, or is Origin harmless?

Notch: I think it's a bit dangerous to only have one digital distribution platform like Steam. I love Valve, but out of principle, I find the idea of one platform a bit scary. So I like that there are others competing – for example, Desura and Impulse, who recently got bought by GameStop. It's a good thing that there are more.

Origin does a couple things badly compared to Steam -- which is impressive since they had eight years to study Steam. They should definitely have a chance to do their thing, but they might want to move away from titles that make people use it and show people why they should use it.

But I think, in principle, it's a good thing.

That's actually the nicest thing anyone's ever said about Origin.

GameSpy: Similarly, Kickstarter's been hogging headlines recently -- and with good reason, seeing as Tim Schafer is now living in a castle made from all the world's money. Do you think crowd-funding's the future of game publishing, though? Or is it just a gold-paved step off the beaten path?

Notch: I think for a small project, it's a great way to do it. Because then, if you've got, like, a thousand people excited about the project, you'll probably be able to fund it. But I think that, once you get to this super high-profile stuff, people might be less inclined to jump aboard.

I mean, if Double Fine crashes and burns and just vanishes, people might be less inclined to trust that model in the future. Granted, I don't think that's gonna happen, because they're obviously very excited about making this project. But eventually, something like that might happen. Then the Kickstarter model might not be as successful. Right now, it's working because it's been working so far.

Yeah, I don't know if it's just a big fad. People are kind of investing in the game without actually investing. They won't get anything back other than the completed game.

Spy Guy says: Game developer, publisher, entrepreneur, professional hat model... is there anything this man can't do? What would you like to see Notch do next?