Deftblade Elite Discussion

4 months ago

There's a lot of memory going into this mechanic, which creature is hunting which creature?

As such I would say this is strained to be printed on more than a small handful of cards and mainly at uncommon rarity and up, to avoid too much memory dedicated to a rather complex mechanic.

I wont say it will never happen, but the mechanic has a lot going against it.

That being said, I still think it's a neat concept, but I'm unsure about the balance between useful/oppressive and relevant/irrelevant. If the trigger is bound on the opponent's choice, it's in their hands to make it useful to you. They'll generally do whatever they can to make it the least impactful for you. As such it's a very unreliable mechanic.

I don't think we'll ever see a segregation of creature types based on something like race or profession/title - mostly because there are so many creatures without either (correction; it seems like WotC have gone through all their older designs and designated a race to each creature, including artifact creatures). In the modern frame, WotC have actually been rather consistent with giving each creature a race - however there are exceptions.

Giants are in some instances used as a race, seen in Arbiter of Knollridge. And sometimes as an adjective to describe something immense, Diregraf Colossus. In Diregraf's situation it could be a zombified giant - then giant is the race and zombie is a state. However if that's true, is zombie then not ever a "race"?

Another is Yahenni, Undying Partisan which is an Aetherborn Vampire. Next to Midnight Entourage who is an Aetherborn Rogue. I think we can quickly agree that Rogue is a profession/title. Then Aetherborn must be a race. However we can also quickly agree that Vampire is a race, so Yahenni is half-Aetherborn, half-Vampire? It's a mess.

As for the mechanic itself, it is extremely narrow to the point that it can only ever see print in a heavy tribal set reminiscent of Lorwyn, Ixalan, or Innistrad. And it would have no relevance outside block. Not that that makes it bad per se, but it certainly makes it less exciting.

As for my own suggestion on Hunt, I'm sitting on two versions and would like some feedback on the concept if possible before deciding a final route. I'll note which version will be the main entry until I change my mind or the challenge ends - when is that btw dbpunk?

I am tempted to run a variant of the old Provoke keyword. It will be a mainly green mechanic with red and white closely secondary.

I'm kinda between two models:

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Hunt (After blockers are declared, you may have target creature defending player control block this creature if able, in addition to any other creature(s) that creature is blocking.)

No. 1 will be the main entry for the challenge until I decide otherwise.

The first model is turning multi-blockers upside-down, by forcing one blocker to block multiple attackers. It is also a functional but improved provoke, as it can function with just one, but it doesn't untap the creature, and it can ignore restrictions - such as Bedlam or Auntie's Snitch or the creature being tapped. You could counter provoke by tapping the creature before it could block. With this model, you ignore everything and basically says; "These two creatures fight in combat".

It is functionally different from fighting as it goes through the combat phase. Multiple users of Fight all receive the same damage from the attacked opponent, while this means the attacked only gets one count of power to use. As such multiple users of Hunt, can band together to take down a larger prey at greatly reduced risk to themselves.

It also interacts differently with ways to interact with creatures in combat, such as Righteousness or Bow of Nylea or simply Maze of Ith or the new Labyrinth of Skophos. Combat centered keywords or abilities also have a purpose in conjunction to Hunt, such as First Strike, Double Strike, and abilities that cares about attacking creatures. A card like Mark of Asylum prevents Fight from having any meaning, while the Mark is pointless against this variant. Dolmen Gate or Iroas, God of Victory functions really well with Hunt but not so with Fight. Similarly Holy Day does nothing to Fight, but stops Hunt.

Hunt is functionally weaker than Fight (at least as a stand alone mechanic), as Fight doesn't disable combat damage and there are many reasons why Fighting outside the combat step or even outside your own turn can be beneficial. As such I think you can allow Hunt more leg room and grant it to stronger/more efficient creatures than what we saw with Provoke. Provoke was mainly featured on bad midrange creatures with high power and low toughness, as a pseudo-removal.

And you can add conditions to it, check the examples.

Until I change my mind, this will be the main entry for the challenge.

The secondary model is a more flexible version that works better by itself, as it functionally allows any attacker with Hunt to be on the damage order for any creature defending player controls who can block. It's a delayed Provoke and grants a lot of decision power to the attacker by knowing all blockers before making a decision - not including combat tricks.

Where the first version is very much an indirect removal tool, in addition to Provoke's secondary utility which is disabling/distracting a blocker, best seen on Deftblade Elite. This secondary version is more a way to restructure combat to grant the attacker a leg-up after blockers are declared. Normally the defending player has the upper hand in combat, as they choose blockers for attackers. This Hunt mechanic tries to hand some power back to the attacking player.

I'm uncertain how fine a line is threaded under this model, as I can see it becoming a nightmare to defend against if a creature with Hunt can basically always be a moving target, meaning they will always have a chance to take down your creatures more efficiently. Your only saving grace would be combat tricks.

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

2/3

Yellow-tailed Viper

Creature - Snake (Uncommon)

Deathtouch

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

2/1

Ardar Prowler

Creature - Cat (Rare)

First strike

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

4/4

On the Hunt

Sorcery (Uncommon)

Up to two target creatures gain Hunt until end of turn. (When a creature with Hunt attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Training Warrior

Creature - Human Warrior (Uncommon)

Hunt (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Hunt Beast, Cat, Snake, Wolf, and Bear (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target Beast, Cat, Snake, Wolf, or Bear creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

At the beginning of combat on your turn, Halt and up to two other creatures you control gain Hunt until end of turn. (When a creature with Hunt attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Whenever a creature an opponent controls dies, if a creature you control have dealt damage to it this turn, you may draw a card.

3/6

Vorales of the Crimson Fang

Legendary Creature - Vampire (Rare)

Flying, Haste

At the beginning of combat on your turn, you may sacrifice another creature. If you do, Vorales gain Hunt until end of turn. (When this attacks, you may have it hunt target creature defending player controls, which become hunted until end of combat. A hunted creature can and must block all creatures hunting it, ignoring any restrictions.)

Swords to Plowshares
is better than
Path to Exile
. In EDH, giving an opponent five to ten life is unfortunate, but not terribly bad; ramping an opponent, on the other hand, can be very dangerous. I advise against spells that can help speed up your opponents.

Depending on your meta, you may have a lot of options for color-specific interactions.
Carpet of Flowers
is excellent if your meta is really blue, and
Choke
is a pretty mean card with essentially the opposite effect.

In green, you might way to consider adding a land-recursion package if you have access to it.
Ramunap Excavator
is good for bringing back your fetch land(s), and thereby guarantees land drops.
Exploration
is an excellent card, if you're willing to spend $25 to get ahold of it, that accelerates you like crazy from turn one. Sticking a
Wasteland
or
Strip Mine
into the mix is pretty spicy too.

1 year ago

Yeah and I love
Deftblade Elite
since I can prevent the damage if none of my options are favorable. I just wish any of the other green or white provoke creatures were worth the cost.
Swooping Talon
I might consider since the flying gets damage in regardless of Mirri and can make a non-flyer block for a mana. But the casting cost is just so high for that effect.

2 years ago

I've done some playtesting with this and against it, I have some suggestions.Right now its biggest issue is not having a strong early game. 2/2's are ripe for removal, and every modern deck will have a fetchland sitting waiting to cast Path to Exile or Fatal Push whatever creature you get out there first. I like Knight of Sursi as a turn one play, but it still doesn't get you anything on the board. I'd recommend a one drop creature. Dauntless Bodyguard stays in tribal and is pretty nice, but is more of a later turn benefit with his ability. Deftblade Elite may work well in attracting targets for an aggro deck, since he has a built in Lure. Kytheon, Hero of AkrosFlip comes to mind as well.. Knight of the White Orchid is a pretty standard modern card, and you can always use ramp. I'm not a fan of Suq'Ata Lancer, I'd look more into ways of getting you bigger drop guys out there. I'd add some card draw Dragon Mantle helps with that and devotion.

Good build, the stacking flanking looks like it can add up quickly. I'm curious if the banding mechanic works well with flanking. Stinks that Jabari's Banner and Telim'Tor are banned in modern. Maybe this could work better as a legacy deck?

2 years ago

I'll be honest, the only reason I don't run suture priest is the art. Sword was what I had on hand, its been replaced with infiltration lens. I equip my Deftblade Elite with it since it has provoke. So it becomes pay 2 to draw 2, after a bit it just becomes draw 2 cause of my lords and anthems. I don't like Skullclamp cause it draws hate from my playgroup.I also totally forgot about Cathars' Crusade. The lantern is for group hug proposes.Never heard of Knight captain, so thanks for that mention.

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