A closer look at the 5-2 pre-season loss to Ducks you couldn’t see unless you were in the Honda Center

Todd McLellan won’t cop to that — “You play to win,” he said after the Sharks outshot the Ducks 40-18 but still were smacked upside the head, 5-2. But what else would you expect him to say if he’s trying to instill a “losing is not acceptable” attitude in the locker room.

And, yeah, there were some troubling things out on the ice. The Sharks, for example, are counting on Jason Demers to show he’s a top four d-man and for one night, at least, he was anything but.

Still, it was only pre-season. And the Sharks’ first pre-season game at that.

Before lowering the boom on Antero Niittymaki for giving up four goals on 12 shots, here’s a closer look at each of the shots that ended up in the back of the net.

1) Getzlaf gets plenty of time to shoot and clanks one off the pipes. Corey Perry pounces on the rebound before any Shark in the neighborhood (Nick Petrecki and Demers were the d-men) and punches it past Niittymaki before he can get back into position.

2) This one is a textbook case of poor communication between a goal and his defensemen — and McLellan held the d-men totally responsible. First Demers muffed a chance to clear the puck, that somehow ended up behind the Sharks net. There, Petrecki was caught flat-footed and appeared to end up getting in Niittymaki’s way when he started to go for it.

Here’s Petrecki’s account:

“It was lack of communication. That’s all it was. That’s my fault there. I’ve got to communicate better to Niitty and let him know what I want him to do with the puck. That falls on me.”

Niittymaki wasn’t ready to point fingers, though.

“It was one of those things. The d-man came to me and wanted to take it. Maybe I should have just played it because I went there first, then he wanted to take it and the puck kind of bounced out.”

See? Miscommunication couldn’t be clearer.

3) Shot deflects off Niclas Wallin’s right skate and into the far corner. No chance for the goaltender. And, no, that wasn’t the skate that was modified to accommodate swelling in his ankle. That was the left skate.

4) A Ryan Getzlaf slap shot from only 16-feet out, according to the official play-by-play.

Niittymaki may not have looked particularly sharp in his first game as a Shark, but those stats were definitely a collective effort.

****More post-game thoughts in the print edition game story. Link available in the right-hand column. I’ve got to look forward to a 6 a.m. wake-up call so I am outta here.

David Pollak

David Pollak has been following the NHL forever and at the Mercury News as an editor or reporter since 1987. For almost a decade he wrote about the Sharks as the paper's Fan in the Stands before joining the sports department in 2001. He became the Sharks beat writer before the 2007-08 season and began this blog at that time. You can also follow him on Twitter at @PollakOnSharks.

Everything else aside, let me show you why no one takes you seriously, Troll:

“Calling one a Troll is a lazy man’s way of saying I have no ability to have an intelligent discussion with anyone who does not agree with me. A Sign of a good liberal if you ask me.” (Emphasis added. –Nick!)

This right here? This is why we call you a troll. I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume for a moment you’re not trolling–you really do believe everything you say, and you’re not just saying it to elicit a response. If you want people to listen to you, you have to cut this kind of garbage out. Bringing in off-topic ad hominems don’t support anything you say. In fact, anyone who would agree with you is made slightly uncomfortable because now they have to deal with having a verbal bomb-throwing maniac on their side.

On the other hand, if you really are just trolling, your next post is going to give up the game.

munchkin smurf

we almost, don’t bother feeding the midget. the mini jockey can’t stand to have his toys taken away. he already has the crying towel out.

Nick

DO NOT FEED THE TROLLS: It only encourages them.
(And, yes, this encourages them, too. But if people stop feeding them, this’ll be the only sustenance they get and they’ll go away.)

Scum

Now Nick, just cuz you’re a Socialist, you shouldn’t, feel slighted. I filter out all that stuff, and since you’re smarter than me, you must be able to do it too.

Besides, I don’t think BC was calling you a troll. And he wasn’t calling liberals trolls either.

He was calling a troll a troll. And beyond hockey trolling, it was throwing in politics on top of it.

A hockey doofus con politcal twit. 2X the dumb.

PoeticAppreciation

Johnny San Jose,

well written in #43 from me as well. There still seems to be a bunch of white noise in here which will hopefully get pushed into the corners soon once the season starts.

#40, looks like you fell on your own sword by including that last line in your rant.

—–
Back to my watching the Teal and White game. I got reminded of noticing the unusual (for Sharks) butterfly style from the Fins. I didn’t mention that in the post the other day. I appreciate the thought put in by the posters above who mentioned the implications of switching to butterfly goalies will bring about for the rest of the team (D in particular).

Breakaway

Nick: They won’t leave…. i was browsing older comment sections from the beginning of last season, and people were trolling the same way after the first loss, trolling about heatley not scoring in the first few games, even trolling after he scored the hat trick.

people whine when DW does nothing on July 1st… then they whine when he does something on July 1st, then they whine about Nichol being a softy but when he ends up playing a huge majority of the games, they move on to whine about other people. It’s a perpetual cycle…. and if they dont have anything about the Sharks team/management to whine about, they whine about the newspaper and the blog.

y

I will take a pre-season loss with new goalies learning sysytems, personalities, and different ways of communicating any day of the week, over having Nabokov in net for on more second. I am so glad the Sharks signed the Finns….

Tano

That’s it!!!!!!
After such a shocking outing by Nitty, we should cut him loose, and beg Nabby to come back for $10M for the season and another $10M if he gets us past the second round of POs…and if by any stretch of anybody’s imagination we make it to the SC finals, throw another $30M at him regardless of the final outcome…
I believe out PO money will be safe….

We can keep Niemi, Stalock and Greiss so Nabby has plenty of people to carry his equipment to and from the locker room.

evilducks

“The stats you site vs Nash were for 1 game and I also understand your stats are for post season too.”

I wasn’t aware you could knock a team out of the playoffs in 1 game. I swear I saw and saw boxscores for 6 games against Nashville, but whatever, you must be correct after all.

Nick

Breakaway–True, but the main thing is… How long did we ignore them, eh? 🙂 Ever notice how Martin Brody flitted off into the aether as soon as people stopped talking to/about him? The thing about trolls is that they generally want the attention they don’t get in the real world. So if you respond to them at all, they’re satisfied. They’ll usually act out even harder once you start ignoring them, but eventually they’ll give up and go back to 4chan.

EvilDucks–Eh, I’ve got to disagree with you about Niemi. He’s probably #1 material, and he did better in the playoffs than you give him credit for. I’ve got my doubts, though, on account of he’s a sophomore this year, and the NHL is littered with goalies who were outstanding one year and snowmen the next–Theodore, Price, Giguere, Biron, Ellis… Steve Mason. So the real question mark is what kind of second year he has. I’ve got hope, but I’ve also go doubts. Faith’s a funny thing sometimes.

Dirty

Watch out Nick. MB is like Bloody Mary and Biggie Smalls. You’ve been warned.

China

Nabby Nabby Nabby!!!

Nick

Also, quick question–Were either of Khabibulan or Huet butterfly style? I’m no connaiseur, so I couldn’t tell butterfly style from butterfly knives. But I was wondering on account of, if Huet and Khabibulin weren’t, then it seems Chicago had to learn how to play with one in nets and they had fewer than 82 games to do it. With two in nets, San Jose’ll have all 82 games to figure it out. *shrugs*

We’ll see.

Nick

Well so long as MB isn’t like Candlejack I should be just f

munchkin smurf

so they admit that they want to drive away and silence any posters who criticize sharks mgmt. real proud, eh DP? breakdance and tiny shrimp are the typical disgraces of this forum.

Dirty

or candyman

hockeyrocks

#62 Nick

Yes, both Khabibulan and Huet are butterfly goalies. These days the majority of NHL goalies are butterfly. Nabby was in the minority because he played the hybrid style.

Nick

Hrm, so the Blackhawks had over a year to get used to it. That doesn’t bode well 😛

Ah well. What’s the worst that can happen, eh?

Nick

Oh, and last response to Troll #2: Nah, I don’t mind criticism, I just don’t like morons. I know it’s hard to grasp with your insane troll logic, but it’s quite possible to disagree with someone civilly. It might come as a further surprise, but you can even thing someone has made mistakes (overpaying certain defensemen) but still be a fan. Disliking those mistakes doesn’t mean you have to fire them.

Take a look at EvilDucks–He doesn’t think Niemi is very good; I do. Am I trying to “silence” him because he’s criticising the status quo? No. He states his case intelligently and doesn’t launch into diatribes when someone else disagrees with him.

Look, if you’re honestly feeling repressed, I suggest you read some things on the internet about how to give constructive criticism. Saying “This guy sucks” doesn’t add anything to the conversation. If you think you’re under attack because people disagree with you, it’s quite possible you’re doing something to get under their skin–Lurk a little bit, see what other people say and do. Find out why it’s okay for one person to not like Wallin, but why everyone gets up in arms when you say something about him.

The world’s actually a fairly rational, reasonable place. People who think it isn’t are generally the ones with whom there’s something wrong, not the other way around. In other words, no, you’re not Yossarian. You’re not the only sane man in an insane world. Again, however, all that is assuming you’re a reasonable person who honestly doesn’t understand why everyone is on your case. If you’re some troll in the basement trying to get a reaction out of everyone, then good job because you got me to go on for four paragraphs.

Now, that said, take it easy and have a nice life. I’m not replying to you or your sock puppets any longer. Have fun.

evilducks

How dare you try and silence me!

Oh right, there is nothing you can do one way or another, it’s up to me.

You were right before, if the troll doesn’t get the attention he craves he’ll eventually wander off. That’s not exactly chasing anybody away, it’s just ignoring them. If they’re attention addicts then it’s hardly our fault they didn’t do anything worth giving them attention they apparently crave. Now, listen to your own advice and ignore them, because I don’t seem to have that kind of restraint.

What I’m trying to say is, I wish I could go to the Rally for Sanity next month.

But the upside of the butterfly is that this style ( in theory) has a high save percentage against shots down low (which is a natural weak spot for stand up hybrid goalies like Nabby). Most SOG are low. However elite highly skilled forwards like Marleau can beat butterfly goalies by aiming high into the corners as he did against Niemi in the WCF against Chicago.

But overall I think the Sharks gain more than they lose by having 2 butterfly goalies in net. Gathering up rebounds will be an adjustment issue for our Dmen though – Nabby tended to swallow them up more. If you have ever watched Luongo play – he’s a 100% butterfly goalie – Canucks Dmen are always on alert, poised to snap up the rebounds because once a butterfly goes down to stop a shot he’s very vulnerable should an opponent get his stick on the rebound. Even a tall butterfly goalie like Luongo leaves the corners open.

evilducks

As far as Niemi, I think we have 1a and 1b goalies. I don’t think one is appreciably better than the other and so far in camp Niitty has been the better of the two from eyewitnesses I’ve talked to (and seen pictures from).

I think Niemi rode to glory on a stupidly stacked team and often mocked how terrible he was during the other series. I swear that guy would let in a goal on every 3 or 4 shots for stretches. No rebound control, no hand-eye coordination with his glove. Then we face him and suddenly he remembers how to close his legs properly and catch a puck again. All of which he suddenly forgot all over again when Pronger stepped onto the ice and stole his pucks.

JB

“Gathering up rebounds will be an adjustment issue for our Dmen though – Nabby tended to swallow them up more”

I think we should expect the early games in the season to be ragged around the crease, with miscommunication and slow reactions between the goalies and the d-men until the comfort level between them improves.

Nick

Fair enough, agree to disagree. I’ll say this, though–I’d rather have a goalie who learns that skill when it’s needed like Niemi than one who always has the same weakness every game like Nabokov 😛

evilducks

I believe it was game 2 against Colorado last year when I exclaimed “Win or Lose, I’m done with Nabokov as a goalie”.

Or something to that effect. I’m not sad he’s gone, just wish we would have improved the defense instead of bringing in Niemi.

We Almost

Nick and Ducks

What is funny is that anyone who does not buy the company line or makes criticisms is considered a troll. Well on Friday night troll over to Sec 201, Row 1 and Troll with me for 42 home games. Yeah I am not a fan, yet right. NO WAY, no chance. I just do not see everything as peachy and nice like you all. Come to a game once in awhile and talk to me, and you’ll get it.

I am not bitter, no way, no how. I just want to win, and my vision of winning is just different then others to some extent.

As for trying to have meaningful discussion. Just look at my post this morning with Ducks. I asked a simple question about whether or not Niemi missed a day of training camp, I was being totally serious. And like always Ducks gets defensive.

I was not a Nabokov fan, but I think he was and is a better goalie then Niittymaki (Will support Nitty in goal, hell yes) can we do better HELL YES and that is my opinion. I don’t buy the company line like a lot of you do. I have had the pleasure of talking to Doug Wilson in person, on the phone and at Ice Insites, believe what you want, but we actually had civil disagreements.

We Almost

As for goalie I am not 100% sold on Niemi either, I actually like Stalock, but between Niemi and Niitty Niemi has the better playoff record.

As to ducks, go back and read what I said, I believe I said regular (Meant season) games vs Nashville. I then said because you were talking playoffs and I was talking regular season stats.

As for why SV PCT means anything, well just think about it for a minute. And before anyone mentions something about Chicago’s defense, lets look at shots faced per game, and stop oversimplifying it.

evilducks

“As for trying to have meaningful discussion. Just look at my post this morning with Ducks. I asked a simple question about whether or not Niemi missed a day of training camp, I was being totally serious. And like always Ducks gets defensive.”

The question about training camp I answered straightforward and honestly. The rest of your post was an inane statement about the Sharks getting swept and winning the cup and those being the reason Niemi is better than Niitty.

Which would be great if we played the Sharks every game during the year, but we don’t. Niemi was an average goalie during the regular season according to his stats and a below average goalie against the rest of the playoff teams. If he put up those numbers as a Shark we’d crucify him here. We’re still angry at Nabokov for posting a .890 against Anaheim 2 years ago and Niemi managed to win a cup with those numbers against Philli.

Yeah, the team he’s in front of doesn’t matter, somebody tell that to Chris Osgood and Many Legace.

Breakaway

Why are you a troll? Because of ridiculous statements like this that ad absolutely nothing to the discussion and are simply an attack.

“A Sign of a good liberal if you ask me.”

Breakaway

Any why is it that everyone who disagrees with the people acting like it’s the end of the world after a signing or a loss are considered apologists? Maybe we just don’t think it’s as grand of an issue as you and the other trolls make it out to be.

finfan

Evilducks,

Your posts are usually insightful, respectful and right. However I have to disagree with you on the goal tending issue.

How can a goalie with a better goals against, better save percentage, and backstopping a team to a Stanley cup championship be called an average goalie? Seems to me the guy is more of clutch goalie then anything.

And while I do not agree with the other poster I will say his record and stats versus teams in our division was pretty stellar.

Its quite entertaining hearing about all of the rebounds that our butterfly goalies will be giving up. A rebound is much better than digging the puck out of the back of your net (especially when it just went through the 5 hole).

hockeyrocks

#85 Rob

You are right – butterfly is not as vulnerable 5 hole as hybrid goalies might be.

However our 2 new butterfly goalies will present adjustment in play challenges to our Dmen, particularly Boyle, I suspect. Butterfly goalies always try to direct the rebounds to their Dmen. I’m not sure that it will be possible for Niemi/Nitty to always choose Douglas Murray’s side for re-directing the rebounds. Boyle will need to hang back back at bit longer than he has with Nabby in net. I gather that you do not care for Nabby but be that as it maybe, you must admit that with Nabby’s style of play, we often gained an extra forward in Boyle. I’m not sure that will be possible to the same degree with butterfly style goalies in net.

There will be adjustments, that’s a given. I still think the Sharks will gain a bit of an advantage overall with the butterfly style.

Scum

Many railed against Nabokov because he was a great regular season GT, not in the POs; and now we get a guy that has PROVED he was PO clutch, and those folks are not thrilled.

Wow. That’s not surprising.

I watched every CHI playoff game. He looked very good. Nashville gave the entire Hawks team trouble, not just AN.

How will he do in his Soph. season? As was astutely pointed out earlier, this will be a real concern, but unlike Nabokov, we can’t say he doesn’t have what it takes.

I hope it’s his job to lose. I believe he has the best credentials of the 3/4 guys we have.

hockeyrocks

#87 Scum “now we get a guy that has PROVED he was PO clutch, and those folks are not thrilled.”

I’m not sure to whom you refer as “folks” not thrilled. So far only I’ve only counted 1 poster who is less than thrilled about Niemi. I think you may be counting as folks not thrilled about Niemi falsely. Myself I’m concerned about our Defense generally speaking – we are thin on top 4 proven talent – and it becomes an even greater concern when there’s a new goalie style of play that comes into the picture that requires adjustment from all, including our top 2 Dmen. That’s the focus of concern – defense – not new goalies per se.

evilducks

finfan: Rarely do people pad my ego before disagreeing, but thanks.

GAA is more a product of the team than the goalie. Goalies save a certain % of shots, teams limit those shots. Niemi’s GAA is stupidly good because his team gave up the fewest shots per game of anybody. I believe Nabokov use to have a great GAA too when we were under Wilson. Niemi’s save % was marginally better than Niittymaki’s. There isn’t much difference between .909 and .912 and a good team can help that a little bit by clearing rebounds. We’re not talking .929 like Ryan Miller better here (or even Nabby’s .922 from last season).

I’d call Chris Osgood an average goalie and that guy has him name on the cup multiple times. Yes, an exceptional goalie can win you a cup, but an exceptional team in front of an average goalie can too.

So, like I said, it’s a 1a and 1b goalie situation for us. Stat and style-wise they’re basically the same. One’s got more professional experience the other has a cup. Whichever is hot will get starts.

I still don’t like the Niemi signing because I wanted to improve our defense and he eats up the rest of our cap space. No, I don’t like the Wallin signing either (not that the NTC part matters on a 1 year contract).

hockeyrocks

#89 evilducks

I think now is the time for Coach Todder to require his Dmen to perfect the long stretch pass. The Sharks have not used the stretch pass much in the past but with butterfly goalies the upside is that skilled Dmen will collect the rebounds and do the stretch pass to forwards up ice. eg. Hiller and Pronger to Getzlaf line or more recently Niemi and Keith to Toews line. We’ll need something similar to emerge from our Dmen ranks.

evilducks

I don’t know if I want to encourage our players to be lax on defense right now. Interesting theory though.

Rob

#86 hockey rocks

I sort of agree. It is really difficult to direct a rebound at a particular person. A goalie can do this sometimes if that person is alone. Even BF goalies try to absorb rebounds. Otherwise they try to direct rebounds to the corners. One big advantage of being BF is that when you do give up a bad rebound, you are still taking up a large part of the lower net. If a shooter has the time to gather a rebound and put it over the goalie, then shame on the defense. Shooters near the goalie need to be tied up no matter what style of play the goalie uses.

FWIW – I was a Nabby fan but like it has been said a million times he wasn’t a big game kind of guy. Losing in those big games never seemed to bother him that much. It is interesting that no other NHL team picked him up. He was behind a really good team for many years and just never got the job done. He didn’t lose that many playoff games on his own but he never stole a series either. Niemi has proven his ability to steal a series and Nitty has never played for a good team.