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Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Originally Posted by _Sir_Charles_

I guess I'm in the minority here. I say they stick with Dusty. This team is not designed to win NOW. I've said this since the off-season that this year should be about 2 things and 2 things only. Improvement and youth experience. The kids should get a good deal of playing time to get them ready for the bigs. And steady improvement, even moderate improvement, is enough to show me that they're taking steps forward. A few games under .500 is improvement already, despite what some here want to claim. Toss the Reds into the NL west and we'd be in 3rd place. In the AL central...3rd place. The thing that makes it seem so dreadful this year is the constant ups and downs and the fact that the Cubs have the best record in baseball making our current standing look that much worse.

This team is on the right track. Does anybody really think Harang is going to continue to pitch at a 2-9 pace? Does anybody think we'll consistantly have multiple injuries decimating our starting line-up? Does anybody seriously think we won't be a better team next year with the kids being more experienced and with Junior not being a focal point in the lineup and OF defense? When you turn your team towards a youth movement you will flat-out experience higher highs and lower lows. Eratic defense, boneheaded plays on the basepaths, etc. Improvement, that's all we should be looking for right now. First place shouldn't even be in our thought process. It's heading in the right direction. For now, just enjoy watching the kids develop and saying your final farewells to the total package that was Junior Griffey. Despite the standings, it's a great time to be a Reds fan.

Sure, the team isn't designed to win now, but what about Dusty's performance during the season has given you confidence that any team he manages will live up to its potential? On a nightly basis he doesn't put his team in its best position to win. It continues again tonight. Its a rare game when he doesn't do something completely moronic that seriously hampers his team's ability to win.

The roster may or (more likely) may not be heading in the right direction, but there's really no questioning that this team's field management is very very very poor. I really can't see how any manager in baseball is worse. I'd take Bob Boone batting Adam Dunn leadoff (not a good idea) over Dusty batting Corey Patterson leadoff (the worst idea since the naming of Big Bone Lick).

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Has Dusty made some questionable moves this season? Sure. Name me one manager who hasn't. Just one. Simply put, nobody can. They've all made mistakes. Looking back in hindsight is easy.

Should he have replaced Patterson earlier than he did, of course. Should he have moved Patterson out of the leadoff spot at the bare minimum, of course. Has he left pitchers in longer than he should have, sometimes. But with the young pitchers, you sometimes HAVE to do that in order to find out how they'll respond to difficuties.

Overall, I think he's done a pretty good job. He hasn't overworked our young starters like most people said he would (sorry, 100 to 110 pitches is NOT overworking a young arm). He hasn't favored the veterans over the young players (Votto, Bruce, Cueto, Volquez, Janish, Hererra, Bray, Burton, etc, etc, etc). When a young player goes into a slump...he doesn't pull them like previous Reds managers did...he shows some faith in them and lets them fight through it. Dusty isn't the one on the field duffing groundballs or air-mailing throws to firstbase. The only real complaint I have about Dusty is his way of making out his starting lineups and overlooking OBP. Without a true leadoff hitter on this team, anyone he picks for that slot is going to get criticized. If he would do one thing (swap dunn and griffey in the batting order) I'd be happy overall.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

He hasn't just made questionable moves. He has made objectively bad moves in almost every game this season.

Also, there are guys who fit the mold of leadoff hitter better than the guys he has used this season, BUT YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THEM HIT LEADOFF BECAUSE DUSTY IS JUST TOO DUMB TO REALIZE THAT THE CENTERFIELDER AND SHORTSTOP AREN'T REQUIRED BY RULE TO HIT FIRST AND SECOND EVERY GAME! UGH!!!

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

I love that no matter what the Reds record is our problems can always be traced back to one thing...lineup construction. If only we could get a Reds manager to take a straw poll on Redszone before every game to see what the lineup/batting order would be then we would be 162-0. I've never seen people fuss so much over who hits where in the lineup as if that is the determining factor for winning ballgames. It's actually quite humurous.

Put me in the camp that thinks we need a new hitting coach. Jacoby has had his shot. I'm sure it's all a matter of where they are hitting in the lineup but these guys look lost at the plate lately with little or no game plan.

"YES! He rips it. Is it high enough? It's gonna be gone! Adam Dunn has done it again. Big #44 can take all day to round the bases here, thats done and gone- lookout dunner they're waitin for ya at home plate." - George Grand

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Originally Posted by He got it!

I love that no matter what the Reds record is our problems can always be traced back to one thing...lineup construction. If only we could get a Reds manager to take a straw poll on Redszone before every game to see what the lineup/batting order would be then we would be 162-0. I've never seen people fuss so much over who hits where in the lineup as if that is the determining factor for winning ballgames. It's actually quite humurous.

Put me in the camp that thinks we need a new hitting coach. Jacoby has had his shot. I'm sure it's all a matter of where they are hitting in the lineup but these guys look lost at the plate lately with little or no game plan.

No, no. The team sucks anyway, but why should any manager keep his job when he makes any team worse than it actually is?

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

The comments concerning Dusty Baker on this board simply amazes me at times. People thought the Reds were crazy to hire him despite the fact that in 14 seasons his teams had finished 1st 3 times and 6 times finished 2nd. One of the years his team finished 2nd in their division was in 2002 when the Giants actually won the NL. The Giants were up 3 games to 2 and were leading the Angels 5-0 going into the bottom of the 7th when his pitching staff who was 2nd in the NL with an ERA of 3.80 that season absolutely imploded and gave up 3 runs in both the 7th and 8th innings. They cost Dusty Baker his World Series ring. The man is 36th All-Time in wins. Do you realize that if he gets this team to .500 this season and next, which is a very real possibility, he will be 26th all time? One more season like that and he'll be in the Top 25 ALL TIME. 288 more wins and he'll pass Earl Weaver for 20th all time. And yet, people can't stop talking about stupid he is. Are some of his decisions and lineups questionable? Yes. But IMO he has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt and I would point out some of the players he's got to work with don't make his job easy.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

He does nothing to make the team better and much to make it worse. I don't care about his track record, because I don't know if he was doing this stupid crap back then. I do know that he is doing this stupid crap now, and it is hurting the team.

If he did back then what he does now, then its safe to say that those teams also won fewer games than they should have in the regular season, and maybe should have won more in the postseason.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Originally Posted by Blue

He hasn't just made questionable moves. He has made objectively bad moves in almost every game this season.

Also, there are guys who fit the mold of leadoff hitter better than the guys he has used this season, BUT YOU NEVER GET TO SEE THEM HIT LEADOFF BECAUSE DUSTY IS JUST TOO DUMB TO REALIZE THAT THE CENTERFIELDER AND SHORTSTOP AREN'T REQUIRED BY RULE TO HIT FIRST AND SECOND EVERY GAME! UGH!!!

Sorry, I disagree with that. That's just a blanket statement. That extra inning game was a VERY poorly managed game. Other than that, there were a few things done wrong here and there.

In regards to the lead off situation. Who SHOULD lead off? Hmmm...let's see. Our catchers? Obviously not. How about our 1B Votto? No, he doesn't fit the mold either. Junior? I don't know anyone who'd think that was a good idea. Edwin? Until he's hitting CONSISTANTLY (and not consistantly bad) I wouldn't suggest we try him out in that slot. So, who's that leave us?

CF
LF
SS
2B

Well, I'd say the odds are pretty good that either the CF or SS will be leading off on THIS roster. Patterson was a mistake. I'm not going to defend that at all. That was his managerial blunder for the year IMO. Not Patterson in CF...just Patterson leading off. Well, both Keppinger and Hairston have lead off quite a bit this season and they were both successful at it. That just leaves Adam Dunn and Brandon Phillips. In the past, using those 2 at leading off has only resulted in the fan base nearly imploding. Personally, I kinda like the idea of Adam leading off, but I'm a majority of one I think. :O) So...instead of complaining about CF'ers and SS leading off, how about you come up with a suggestion of who SHOULD lead off.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Sorry, I disagree with that. That's just a blanket statement. That extra inning game was a VERY poorly managed game. Other than that, there were a few things done wrong here and there.

In regards to the lead off situation. Who SHOULD lead off? Hmmm...let's see. Our catchers? Obviously not. How about our 1B Votto? No, he doesn't fit the mold either. Junior? I don't know anyone who'd think that was a good idea. Edwin? Until he's hitting CONSISTANTLY (and not consistantly bad) I wouldn't suggest we try him out in that slot. So, who's that leave us?

CF
LF
SS
2B

Well, I'd say the odds are pretty good that either the CF or SS will be leading off on THIS roster. Patterson was a mistake. I'm not going to defend that at all. That was his managerial blunder for the year IMO. Not Patterson in CF...just Patterson leading off. Well, both Keppinger and Hairston have lead off quite a bit this season and they were both successful at it. That just leaves Adam Dunn and Brandon Phillips. In the past, using those 2 at leading off has only resulted in the fan base nearly imploding. Personally, I kinda like the idea of Adam leading off, but I'm a majority of one I think. :O) So...instead of complaining about CF'ers and SS leading off, how about you come up with a suggestion of who SHOULD lead off.

See, that's just the thing. Pretty much everyone fits the mold of what a leadoff hitter should do better than Patterson and Janish. Maybe not a catcher, but maybe so. The first thing a leadoff hitter needs to do is get on base. Those guys can't. They are fast. That is why they lead off. And that is really stupid.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Leading off CPatt and batting Janish 2nd and putting Votto 7th is about as dumb as anything I have ever seen in baseball. And it has happened like that all year. This club is fundamentally bad. Baker makes it absolutely dreadful.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Stick with Dusty. The old adage is that coaches get too much credit for wins and too much for loses. This team needs to be tweaked and allowed to mature. Let's take the revolving door off of the Manager's office and stick with a development plan for this team. If we want a sacrificial lamb let's look at the pitching and hitting coaches for this year.

Re: So how long will Castellini stick with Dusty Baker?

Well said Big Hurt. Couldn't agree more.

"YES! He rips it. Is it high enough? It's gonna be gone! Adam Dunn has done it again. Big #44 can take all day to round the bases here, thats done and gone- lookout dunner they're waitin for ya at home plate." - George Grand

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