reohn2 wrote:The difference being that being a member state the UK would have influence on the direction the EU .........

Would we?How can you predict the future?

I'm pessimistic about the UK remaining in the EU because I'm pessimistic about the future of the EU because it will morph into something more than it is now.

You can only tell me how it is NOW.

I personally don 't believe the EU is very good at "morphing" (at least not these days with so many vetos), at least not on a slow incremental basis. The effort and time needed for treaty changes means that if they want to "morph" into something different it has to be enough of a change to make the effort worth it and the UK has a veto over such a "morph" anyway (as does every EU member state).

So any "morphing" could only ever occur with the support of the UK. At least that would be the case if we remained a member./ Of course, leave and we have no relevance to what our nearest neighbour/biggest trading partner might decide to do.

Mick F wrote:Too true regarding the shower in Westminster.Sack the lot of them.Bar them all from standing again, and have GE for a new lot. They can't be any worse.

Who's to say that we won't have a similar shower in charge in Brussels in the future?In that event, sack them all too.

Of course, one lot "in charge" in the EU has been our own government either through its - elected - ministers or its UK elected government appointed officials and commissioner. Plus our PR elected MEPs, most of whom currently are UKIP.

Last edited by Oldjohnw on 15 Apr 2019, 3:11pm, edited 1 time in total.

al_yrpal wrote:The serial purveyor of dodgy facts and assertions has spoken! Never mind, you will possibly get Corbyn soon and his Socialist paradise will give you something much worse to wail about. Skint Britain er kommt!https://en.mercopress.com/2019/04/15/ma ... nd-of-2019 ..thats the way to do it!

Al

Oh pleeze,if you can't engage in any meanigful discussion better to keep quiet then less people will know just how rightwing you are.The current bunch of public school boys and girls have lead this country to the very edge of disaster,one hopes it can be stopped before we go over the cliff edge.Really is this the best you can do?

No citations or examples from me, just a guess.A pessimistic guess of course, because I'm not optimistic about our future in the EU.

Maybe the Remainers are optimistic for its future and we Leavers are pessimistic about it.

I did not ask you for a citation but rather MM. 'Cos what he posted was unsubstantiated. I mean he could at least cite a Brexit party link or something surely?

Worry not, I already know that you won't provide anything of substance, I already tested that out. And yes I am quite optimistic about much involving the EU though I am less optimistic about the UK since the you know what.

I don't like much of what I have seen since in terms of social and political behavior.Surprised a tolerant, well travelled, chap like you still sticks so strongly to the line actually.

al_yrpal wrote:The serial purveyor of dodgy facts and assertions has spoken! Never mind, you will possibly get Corbyn soon and his Socialist paradise will give you something much worse to wail about. Skint Britain er kommt!https://en.mercopress.com/2019/04/15/ma ... nd-of-2019 ..thats the way to do it!

Al

Oh pleeze,if you can't engage in any meanigful discussion better to keep quiet then less people will know just how rightwing you are.The current bunch of public school boys and girls have lead this country to the very edge of disaster,one hopes it can be stopped before we go over the cliff edge.Really is this the best you can do?

Yes, that's the best he can do. Why bother attempting a meaningful engagement with the lad? You won't get one.

I have come to believe - very reluctantly - that there is a deficit of decent pro-leave arguments (here and elsewhere) because the true&only reasons are dark; and those holding them are often reluctant to admit them, even to themselves in some cases.

In all events, minds are not easily changed on this. I generally like to change mine just because it's a good habit to acquire. However, one must still have cogent reasons for changing the mind. None seem available for the UK leaving the EU, despite many of us yearning for them; asking for them; seeking for them; crying out for them.

EDIT,I've come the conclusion after trying for so long to extract some sense out of brexit supporters on here that they have no argument and that their posts and and views are bonkers in the extreme,based on lies fed them by richmen who are the only people to gain from this sorry mess.To add to that,the more posts by them only increases their show of foolishness for all to see.

Last edited by reohn2 on 15 Apr 2019, 4:46pm, edited 2 times in total.

bovlomov wrote:I understand it would be relatively simple to devise an ID service in which the individual has control of the data. The same goes for a medical database. Unfortunately, while the benefit to the individual is the pretext, UK schemes have been designed for the benefit of government and data collectors. In other words, they have started at the wrong end.

If you are right about its limited scope, the Folkeregister will probably be of no interest to UK governments.

An ID service? The government is sure enough of my identity to tax me as me. If they're certain of my identity when it comes to taking money from me then they should be certain about it for any other purpose.

The UK government was able to identify Windrush deportees when it came to taxing them too...

Quite - and looking at tax records would have shown them how long those people had been here.

pete75 wrote:An ID service? The government is sure enough of my identity to tax me as me. If they're certain of my identity when it comes to taking money from me then they should be certain about it for any other purpose.

The UK government was able to identify Windrush deportees when it came to taxing them too...

Quite - and looking at tax records would have shown them how long those people had been here.

But in a land governed by incompentents,led by chief incompetent Home Sec and latterly PM one Theresa May,who when found out in her lies,deception and incompetence,sought out the poweless to blame for her own incompetence.

Would we be able to still participate is this and other schemes if we've decided we no longer want to participate in the EU? We are leaving so presumably we must leave all these organisations as well (you leave the golf club, stop paying membership then you don't get to keep using the club house/bar/etc.).

Ukip has been ordered to fully reveal details of how it used nearly £300,000 of political data services in the run-up to the Brexit vote and the 2015 general election after the party lost a two-year legal battle to block disclosure.

An appeals tribunal found the political party, led at the time by Nigel Farage, failed to properly answer the information commissioner’s questions. It is now legally obliged to provide detailed answers to questions about how it spent political donations and used polling companies and data....Last year the Electoral Commission found both the official Vote Leave campaign – in which Boris Johnson and Michael Gove played key roles – and the unofficial Leave.EU campaign guilty of breaking electoral law. The commission fined both campaigns and referred its findings to the police....The National Crime Agency is investigating allegations of multiple criminal offences by Arron Banks and Leave.EU in the Brexit referendum. One focus of the investigations is £2m reported to have been lent to Better for the Country.

Ukip has been ordered to fully reveal details of how it used nearly £300,000 of political data services in the run-up to the Brexit vote and the 2015 general election after the party lost a two-year legal battle to block disclosure.

An appeals tribunal found the political party, led at the time by Nigel Farage, failed to properly answer the information commissioner’s questions. It is now legally obliged to provide detailed answers to questions about how it spent political donations and used polling companies and data....Last year the Electoral Commission found both the official Vote Leave campaign – in which Boris Johnson and Michael Gove played key roles – and the unofficial Leave.EU campaign guilty of breaking electoral law. The commission fined both campaigns and referred its findings to the police....The National Crime Agency is investigating allegations of multiple criminal offences by Arron Banks and Leave.EU in the Brexit referendum. One focus of the investigations is £2m reported to have been lent to Better for the Country.

Ian

Does it surprise anyone here that these scumbags would use any amount of lies and illegal dealings to influence potential voters for their sick cause?

Hello, Well now I've been told, quote from Leave or Remain manifestos? Well that has sorted me out, coz I don't do rhetoric! I have avoided indoctrination at all cost, born stupid, wasted my time at school, then learnt that listening to politicos is bad for everything. Banged to rights. Trouble is that the folk who strive to get elected often use the same tricks with different words, all are glib.University or trades union college same result, "Kimo Sabi, men speak with forked tongue!" Can't wait to see how rude some of you can get? MM

merseymouth wrote:Hello, Well now I've been told, quote from Leave or Remain manifestos? Well that has sorted me out, coz I don't do rhetoric! I have avoided indoctrination at all cost, born stupid, wasted my time at school, then learnt that listening to politicos is bad for everything. Banged to rights. Trouble is that the folk who strive to get elected often use the same tricks with different words, all are glib.University or trades union college same result, "Kimo Sabi, men speak with forked tongue!" Can't wait to see how rude some of you can get? MM