he screwed the leafs for selfish reasons? get out of here. that's ridiculous. he decided he would rather play in toronto. so when a player won't leave town when he's playing poorly, he's selfish, but also when he won't leave town when he's playing well and it's the team that's poor, he's also selfish? toronto is the one who gave him the no-trade clause, and he exercised his right under the CBA. what he ended up doing the next year was rather selfish and silly, but that's not really germane. the maxim 'do everything to help the team' is a difficult one when you're being asked to help the team by leaving it.

Sigh. Again, for a meesley three months of minor inconvenience to his life, he could have waived his NTC, which would have helped make the Leafs a better team in the long run. He has much less of an excuse than say BriaRiolston would, where it would mean two plus years where he would either have to be apart from or relocate his family.. It was a totally d**k move by Sundin. There's just no debating it.

And the fact that he has a right to exercise a NTC has nothing to do with the price of tea in china. A billionaire has a right not to give any money to charity if he doesn't want to. Doesn't mean he's not a selfish pr**k.

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I collect spores, molds and fungus.Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

Sigh. Again, for a meesley three months of minor inconvenience to his life, he could have waived his NTC, which would have helped make the Leafs a better team in the long run. He has much less of an excuse than say BriaRiolston would, where it would mean two plus years where he would either have to be apart from or relocate his family.. It was a totally d**k move by Sundin. There's just no debating it.

okay there's just no debating the fact that he was asked to leave and would've preferred to stay. would this sort of behavior be expected in any other business besides sports?

And the fact that he has a right to exercise a NTC has nothing to do with the price of tea in china. A billionaire has a right not to give any money to charity if he doesn't want to. Doesn't mean he's not a selfish pr**k.

and some more poor logic. there is a giant gap between the two. a no-trade clause is an article negotiated in good faith between a team and a player. it's not mandatory. if the leafs had wanted to have the ability to trade sundin, they should've negotiated a contract without a no-trade clause.

No news, no reporters talking to us... just nothing. No kinds of updates from the Devils about ANYTHING. But of course they have no problem sending e-mails and letters and phone calls to try to get us to buy tickets. I am officially OUT OF HERE until he signs. Have fun everyone.

Point about Sundin is that he absolutely screwed the Leafs for totally selfish reasons. I can't imagine that he was too stupid to realize that. That it was for only three months is exactly the point. Just as it would have been no skin off Sundin's back to play in another city for another few months when the team he supposedly loved would be better off in the long run. The same way a guy who you've signed to stick around for a long time, might achave his own selfish reasons to want to play through the life of the deal might not take one for the team.

I don't understand how the Sundin case relates. It's not like there was 5 years left on his contract and he intended to play out all five years while refusing to be traded. He played almost his whole career with the Leafs and wanted to finish up the season in Toronto.

Don't fault Sundin for a poorly managed team. After all, they're over the cap with a mediocre team.

Well that's my last nerve.

No news, no reporters talking to us... just nothing. No kinds of updates from the Devils about ANYTHING. But of course they have no problem sending e-mails and letters and phone calls to try to get us to buy tickets. I am officially OUT OF HERE until he signs. Have fun everyone.

Oh you know you'll be back before then. This thread is a drug.

Edited by ben00rs, 09 July 2010 - 03:10 PM.

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of No OneProud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)

"I am not an AH like you, he board is discussed with you/, good ;luck, AH" -BostonNala370

okay there's just no debating the fact that he was asked to leave and would've preferred to stay. would this sort of behavior be expected in any other business besides sports?

and some more poor logic. there is a giant gap between the two. a no-trade clause is an article negotiated in good faith between a team and a player. it's not mandatory. if the leafs had wanted to have the ability to trade sundin, they should've negotiated a contract without a no-trade clause.

You keep missing (or intentionally avoiding) the point. It was THREE MONTHS to get a team that was clearly going nowhere that year something valuable in return. If it were another job where the company had been more than generous to me over the years, and asked me to go somewhere else for a few months while still getting my full salary if it would be beneficial to the health of the company, I'd be a jerk not to accept.

Otherwise you're creating a distinction without a difference. How you arrive at a right has nothing to do with when it might be appropriate to waive it.

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I collect spores, molds and fungus.Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

I don't understand how the Sundin case relates. It's not like there was 5 years left on his contract and he intended to play out all five years while refusing to be traded. He played almost his whole career with the Leafs and wanted to finish up the season in Toronto.

Don't fault Sundin for a poorly managed team. After all, they're over the cap with a mediocre team.

Oh you know you'll be back before then. This thread is a drug.

After I get up in a few minutes and leave the office. I'm done with it. I swear. I'm so aggravated at the time I've wasted.

"The $297,297 Kovalchuk missed today is money he will never, ever get back. And the more cheques he misses, the better the deal is going to have to be for the players to justify him sitting out. And unlike the owners, the players can direct their leadership to get a deal done regardless of how disadvantageous it is to them."

"Quite frankly, all the players are getting paid too much and all the contracts are too long," general manager Lou Lamoriello said. "But if you want to compete in this market and you want to win, there are some things you have to do."

I don't understand how the Sundin case relates. It's not like there was 5 years left on his contract and he intended to play out all five years while refusing to be traded. He played almost his whole career with the Leafs and wanted to finish up the season in Toronto.

Don't fault Sundin for a poorly managed team. After all, they're over the cap with a mediocre team.

Oh you know you'll be back before then. This thread is a drug.

Actual scenario with Sundin; Leafs management: Hey Mats we have a deal worked out where we can get a first or second round pick in exchange for you spending the last three months of the season with a competitive team. Mats: Too bad, deals a deal. I'm comfortable here, and I can't stand to miss the Toronto local news for three months, so you're not gonna have that extra pick.

Potential scenario with aging superstar signed to long-term deal: (Very old) Lou: Ilya, your 40 years old, you're cap hit is enormous for very little actual take home pay per year for the life of the deal. Why don't you hang'em up and give us the cap space to re-sign a super awesome Matthias Tedenby. Kind of old Kovy: Deals a deal. I lI'm comfortable here, still think I'm good enough to be competitive, so I guess Matthias is just gonna go have to sign with the Rangers.

The common strand here is that both players are choosing not to sacrifice very little for an organization that was very good to them over the years.

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I collect spores, molds and fungus.Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?

After I get up in a few minutes and leave the office. I'm done with it. I swear. I'm so aggravated at the time I've wasted.

Home has been my escape from all of this waiting garbage. I have the thread up in the background all day, hoping for an update. I leave work pissed off at yet another day without a signing, then don't think about it until work the next morning. Waiting for that text update from twitter is enough for me.

"The $297,297 Kovalchuk missed today is money he will never, ever get back. And the more cheques he misses, the better the deal is going to have to be for the players to justify him sitting out. And unlike the owners, the players can direct their leadership to get a deal done regardless of how disadvantageous it is to them."

Actual scenario with Sundin; Leafs management: Hey Mats we have a deal worked out where we can get a first or second round pick in exchange for you spending the last three months of the season with a competitive team. Mats: Too bad, deals a deal. I'm comfortable here, and I can't stand to miss the Toronto local news for three months, so you're not gonna have that extra pick.

I don't think you're way out there for arguing this point but Toronto shouldn't have relied on their longest tenured player/captain to just up and leave for three months.

My take:

Leafs Management: Hey Mats, we know you want to finish up as a leaf and that you put in a solid effort over your career here. But now trading you would benefit us, so please waive your no-trade clause and get the fvck out of here. Thanks for everything.

Mats: Ummmm,, yea...I think I'll stay here you a$$holes.

13 years and 5 Stanley Cups later...

Potential scenario with aging superstar signed to long-term deal: (Very old) Lou: Ilya, your 40 years old, you're cap hit is enormous for very little actual take home pay per year for the life of the deal. Why don't you hang'em up and give us the cap space to re-sign a super awesome Matthias Tedenby. Kind of old Kovy: Deals a deal. I lI'm comfortable here, still think I'm good enough to be competitive, so I guess Matthias is just gonna go have to sign with the Rangers.

Fixed.

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of No OneProud to be King of the Kovalnuts (Est. June 2010 by MantaRay)

"I am not an AH like you, he board is discussed with you/, good ;luck, AH" -BostonNala370

Home has been my escape from all of this waiting garbage. I have the thread up in the background all day, hoping for an update. I leave work pissed off at yet another day without a signing, then don't think about it until work the next morning. Waiting for that text update from twitter is enough for me.

Gotta be honestly, that is kinda scary...sort of like me going to Bon Jovi tonight scary...

but Toronto shouldn't have relied on their longest tenured player/captain to just up and leave for three months.

Funny thing is, when Mats pulled a Brett Favre and decided to come back and play with a team on the other side of Canada, that's more or less what he did on his own.

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I collect spores, molds and fungus.Hello fellow American. This you should vote me. I leave power. Good. Thank you, thank you. If you vote me, I'm hot. What? Taxes, they'll be lower... son. The Democratic vote is the right thing to do Philadelphia, so do.How do you spot risk? How do you avoid risk? And what makes it so risky?