Comments on: The leverage game could continue beyond Junehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/
ProFootballTalk on NBCSports.comWed, 04 Mar 2015 00:38:44 +0000hourly1http://wordpress.com/By: stevecmhhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069814
Wed, 18 May 2011 14:11:17 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069814To those who accused me of ‘bs’ regarding the Forbes survey results, look it up yourself before you suggest that my comment is not honest.

To see for yourself, just type Forbes NFL Fan Survey in your search engine and click on the link that takes you to the Forbes’ website.

Apparently this site has an issue with including URLs in posted comments. I have done so twice, and both times the comment was deleted by the site administrator.

The players could join the ufl 2morrow and the NFL and Owners would be broke. The UFL would become rich through fan and advertising $. Which would translate to big bucks for the players.

Thats just simply not the case the average player plays 3.5 years. If the owners used scabs and allowed any player who wanted to come back half of them would be playing week one! It’s not like the players can legally strike they decertified. Any player who wanted to play in the UFL ….hey have at it in less than 2 years we would be right back to the same product! The fact is all of them would prefer to play under the NFL brand and not the UFL.

]]>By: macjacmccoyhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069558
Wed, 18 May 2011 07:45:47 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069558stevedco says:
May 17, 2011 7:08 PM
Anyone who thinks the owners needs the players more than the players need the owners is delusional.

The owners could bring in scabs tomorrow, pay a signing bonus to any non-NFL proplayers who came over and start the season.

The players could join the ufl 2morrow and the NFL and Owners would be broke. The UFL would become rich through fan and advertising $. Which would translate to big bucks for the players.

I suppose ignorance is bliss. Of course the players would never want to be drafted if they could go as a free agent straight out of college. But if the choice is to be a free agent with no league to play in, or to be drafted and make millions, 99.9% of them choose to be drafted and make the millions.

By the way, the owners ARE the market. If they go in a room and vote to have a draft for the overall good and competitive balance of the league, guess what, the market decided to draft rookies. What the owners are seeking in the CBA, by definition, is what the market is wanting to offer

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That isnt true the owners are not the market. The fans are the market . The owners only dictate there league and there are alot more then 32 rich guys out there that would like nothing more then for the NFL to alienate there players so much so that they would be willing to play somewhere else.
The only reason why leagues like the ufl havent took off is bc the best players are in the NFL. But if the NFL finally forces players to leave bc of there own hubris another league will emerge and the players, the fans, then the advetisers and the money will follow. You tell me if 75% of the NFL players went to play for a new football league that you wouldnt watch? Sure you would. We all would.

Thats why the fans are the market. We control where the money goes and where the money goes the players go. If us fans decided we are done with the NFL we would bankrupt every single 1 of those billionaire owners. Because there $billion teams would be worthless without us. Take Jerry Jones for example his net worth is about $2 billion. Half of that though is in the Cowboys franchise. If us fans left the NFL and started watching our favorite players play in a new league the Cowboys franchise would go from being worth about $1 billion to almost nothing. It would basically be a name of a retro clothing and memorabilia company. There goes 1/2 of Jerry Jones net worth. Then add in the $1 billion debt he has in the staduim. He wouldnt be able to pay that loan for very long after his main draw and 1/2 his worth is gone. He would eventually have to declare bankruptcy to save what he had left. Now he wouldnt be in the poor house but after losing his team and paying off the bankruptcy his net worth would probably go from north of $2billion to a tenth of that.

So dont tell me the owners are the market. They are basically shareholders. If the true market (aka the fans) decided to move are invest from the NFL to the NFA(new league) there stock would go from 1,000 per share to nothing.

And if it happened no one could say they didnt deserve it.

]]>By: mullwall412http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069550
Wed, 18 May 2011 06:40:52 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069550The reason why most people side with the owners is not because they hate the players. I realize they are extremely talented and they deserve to be paid ALOT. But a lot of union leadership sounds riduculous, this one’s more than others. When they lie blatantly and make childish jokes its hard to take them serious. Do some owners worry about money more than they should? Yes, but I respect men like the Rooneys, Ralph Wilson,Robert Kraft and even Jerry or Dan Snyder way more than De Smith, Kessler or any other lawyer that has done NOTHING good for football. They are the ones who care about football or at least through their actions convince me more than the union’s leaders
]]>By: macjacmccoyhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069544
Wed, 18 May 2011 06:01:27 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069544Im so sick of this lockout. I love football I will always love nothing could ever make me not love football. Lets be clear though just because the NFL plays football does not make them football. Football is pure. It is something that is a 100% public entity. It isnt defined or made better by the players that play it or the people that own teams that play it. What makes football great is football its self. Its the rules, its the strategy, its the desire, its the challenge and the passion the game brings out of you whether your playing it or your watching your son play it. Football is what makes football great not the NFL. The NFL didnt invent the game they arent the ones responsible for the desire and the passion football brings out in you.

The NFL doesnt seem to realize this though. They seem to believe that they are football. Like there would be no football without the NFL. They believe that they own football. But they dont, we own football, America owns football, they just own a company and a name. They own football no more then Microsoft owns the internet. They are just 1 small piece puzzles. They dont seem to realize that the entire NFL could disband today and within a year a new pro football league would open and the fans would watch . The best players would join and so would the advertisers and with in a decade the NFL would be a distant memory. Because American loyalty to football is so much greater then it is to the NFL.

The NFL can only strech the loyalty that they have cultivated in us so far. It took them nearly a century to build that loyalty up but we all know it doesnt take nearly as long to tear something down as it does to build something up. Its already starting to wear thin.

Im starting to hate the NFL. And I dont mean just the front office I mean the entire lot of them. The union and the league. Both sides are full of greedy, selfish, narcissistic, self important, pompous individuals. The game they are playing is getting old fast. Im tired of the lies, the patronizing tones, there percieved genious and superiority and our precieved stupidity. These things are all evident in the letters to season ticket holders, the press conferences and public releases. They tell us how much they care about the fans and the game of football but there actions tell a different story. Like Jerry Jones and the Superbowl fiasco, the PSLs, optioning out of the cba, the fake new cba negoitations, the going to court, and the lockout. But they preceive us to dumb to realize the connection though.

The entire National Football League is wrought with hypocrites. They expect loyalty from fans but show none in return. Can someone name 1 thing they have done to make the lockout easier on us? I cant. Thats why my loyalty is to football and football alone. I will watch the NFL because I love football but if the time ever comes when there is a true competitor to the NFL in talent and coverage I will be sure to sow them the same amount of loyalty as they did me. None.

]]>By: rjovhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069537
Wed, 18 May 2011 05:09:32 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069537hmmm, can we take a break to and talk about the girl in the background? :/
]]>By: deadeyehttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069456
Wed, 18 May 2011 02:52:07 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069456“Can some one, other than an owner fanboi, explain why the players would ever want to reform the union instead of giving free market profootball a try?”

I suppose ignorance is bliss. Of course the players would never want to be drafted if they could go as a free agent straight out of college. But if the choice is to be a free agent with no league to play in, or to be drafted and make millions, 99.9% of them choose to be drafted and make the millions.

By the way, the owners ARE the market. If they go in a room and vote to have a draft for the overall good and competitive balance of the league, guess what, the market decided to draft rookies. What the owners are seeking in the CBA, by definition, is what the market is wanting to offer.

]]>By: Rhode Island Patriots Fanhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069444
Wed, 18 May 2011 02:31:02 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069444@stevecmh—Actually, the results of this survey—specifically, the roughly 26% edge in favor of the players—can be easily explained. Simply stated, the players are more POPULAR than the owners. NFL fans tune in every weekend to watch the players, not the owners. NFL fans live vicariously every weekend through the players, not the owners. That doesn’t make the players right and the owners wrong in the context of this labor dispute. Indeed, the far more important question is which side makes the more compelling BUSINESS CASE to ensure the future success of the game. On that score, I side with the owners, based on the research I’ve done.

Finally, there’s this amusing observation. Roughly 35% of the respondents, who were self-described “big fans of the NFL,” said they “didn’t know” or “didn’t care” which side they favored. That’s quite an indictment.

]]>By: drozmanhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069415
Wed, 18 May 2011 02:08:16 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069415The Appeals Court is hoping a deal is done before they have to actually rule on the Brady case. Yes, 2 judges are appointed by a Republican President, but this is a problem on the case and not a lockout stay. They tend to be business friendly, but also free market oriented and against the socialist revenue sharing something like a draft. They would want to side with the owners ultimately, but setting a president against and open and free market may be something they do not want to do.
]]>By: tommyf15http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069397
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:55:31 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069397eaglesfan290 says:
I love these pro player comments lets use the 9/11 game to gain leverage!

I didn’t read that as a pro-player comment.

It sounded more like “I’ll bet Smith will stoop low enough to use 9/11 as leverage”. Which doesn’t make sense since the fans would take out their anger over not having football on the players regardless of circumstance, just as they always have.

Hmmmm…I call bs on this one. Amazingly, the numbers were IDENTICAL to the little poll Mike has posted on here, with the exception being that the player/owner percentages are reversed, when I checked immediately after reading this post. (7:38 pm) and the changing of the wording on Mikes poll.
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I agree that was probably BS, but I will say that this site’s polls tend to skew far more towards the owner’s side than any others I can find online.

The highest percentage I could find for the owner’s anywhere else was 43%, and that was a Minneapolis Star Trib poll where you couldn’t vote “BOTH”. The players got 56% there.

Most polls I have found online have the votes for players or owners accounting for less than 50% total, with the overwhelming majority voting “BOTH”, which is how I would vote.

So for whatever reason, the readers/posters on this site skew much farther towards the owners than the general public does.

I, for one, cannot for the life of me see how you could look at this objectively and not see some level of blame on both sides.

]]>By: kom2k10http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069379
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:35:52 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069379robertallen1958 says:
May 17, 2011 8:41 PM
for all of you pro-owner people with a IQ above room temperature please read a very good article that Sally Jenkins wrote in the Washington Post, and with an open mind you might realize the this is NOT your fathers NFL, there are alot of new owners in this league, corporate owners who have one thing on their agenda people, squeeze the fans for every nickle they can, $10.00 beer, $8.00 hot dogs, do you think for one minute this is the players fault, it,s not what the players make that causes this, an average fan can hardly afford to attend an nfl game
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Thats not really breaking news that the owners charge a lot for concessions so that they can make money… same thing happens in every venue (concerts, plays, etc…).

The real question is, are those concessions more likely to rise if the players win? Yes! Especially considering the oweners margins are currently declining as is… The fact is that, yes, concessions are high, but if you think that the players winning this battle will cause them to go down, then you’re dillusional. It’s simple economics… if the owners have to pay the players a larger % of their revenue, then they have to charge even more $$ to the fans to make up for that extra cost!

]]>By: geo1113http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069369
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:32:10 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069369robertallen1958:
“corporate owners who have one thing on their agenda people, squeeze the fans for every nickle they can, $10.00 beer, $8.00 hot dogs, ”

“in 1995 was my first time to go to a game, buy the time i got out of there, 2 tickets and everything else i put out over $500.00″

“educate yourself on whats going on with the vikings stadium deal”
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If you or anyone else does not like the prices, don’t buy the product.

As for the Vikings stadium deal, there is an easy solution. MN doesn’t have to shell out the money. And Wilf is free to move the team anyplace he wants. But remember one of the reasons governments kick in is because they think they will profit from it.

Your logic is flawed and biased. First, no one mentioned scabs, I was challenging your comment that the owners need players more. You haven’t made a real point. The cycle speaks for itself, players come and go and the teams still move forward. If they introduced scabs will revenue and attendance drop? Probably, will it bounce back absolutely. As I stated earlier, they need each other, with the players needing the owners more. The UFL argument is weak. There are thousands of players in the NFL and what, 4 or 5 teams in the UFL?

]]>By: footballfan292http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069315
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:12:11 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069315It’s amazing how Americans worship the super rich. What have these guys done for you other than charge you for overpriced tickets, bad hot dogs, and warm beer?

If a single game is cancelled, im done with the NFL. These greedy sons of b***** will never see another penny of my money.

]]>By: smarks82http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069313
Wed, 18 May 2011 01:09:54 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069313Thats it. Im going to my boss right now and demanding him to show me his financial reports. Other wise Im going to decertify and sue him. What do you guys think my chances are?
]]>By: jce1982http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069294
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:49:26 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069294“According to Forbes magazine recent survey of 1,533 NFL fans…

45.9% are on the players’ side,

19.5% are on the owners’ side, and

34.6% don’t know/don’t care.

It will be interesting to see how those here who support the owners go about attacking Forbes, surely a bastion of American capitalism.”

It’s a survey, not the viewpoint of Forbes. I don’t fully support either side. I can only judge based off of what we have seen. The owners have presented 2 proposals to the players and instead of coming out and saying why it’s not good enough or god forbid make a counter offer D-Bag Smith just keeps spouting off rhetoric. The other side of that coin is you have owners like Jerry Richardson spouting off at the players which gets you no where and everything turns into children calling each other “stinky heads” on the playground. Arguing over leverage isn’t negotiating both sides need to compromise.

]]>By: robertallen1958http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069284
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:41:32 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069284for all of you pro-owner people with a IQ above room temperature please read a very good article that Sally Jenkins wrote in the Washington Post, and with an open mind you might realize the this is NOT your fathers NFL, there are alot of new owners in this league, corporate owners who have one thing on their agenda people, squeeze the fans for every nickle they can, $10.00 beer, $8.00 hot dogs, do you think for one minute this is the players fault, it,s not what the players make that causes this, an average fan can hardly afford to attend an nfl game, i lived 30 minutes from Pitts. Pa, i am not a season ticket holder, in 1995 was my first time to go to a game, buy the time i got out of there, 2 tickets and everything else i put out over $500.00, no to some people that may not be alot but to me that was our vacation! these owners want it all and more, educate yourself on whats going on with the vikings stadium deal, then once you know a little about the true nature of these greedy owners you may realize what the players have been up against.
]]>By: geo1113http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069282
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:40:04 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069282jtfris says:
May 17, 2011 7:24 PM
If the players are dumb enough to listen to this pack of ambulance chasers again, I hope they sit for a couple of years.
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That is a very good point. Many on the players’ side think they have nothing to lose. But if the lockout is upheld, the original Brady et al v. NFL case could be in the courts for quite some time. And when you really look at the case, it is possible that the players may not have as much leverage as they think. How so?

1) No draft. Ok so the NFL negates the draft and all players who want to enter the NFL are free to negotiate with any team they want.

2) No franchise or transitional tag. OK, the NFL doesn’t use those tages.

3) Players under contract immediately paid. The lockout was legal thus no pay because no services were rendered.

Sure. The players have nothing to lose!

]]>By: dkeyserhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069274
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:32:12 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069274The average player only plays for 3.5 years…..blah blah blah.. Its the “average” player that 90% of fans could give a rats ass about..Its the special teams guys, practice squad guys, the guys youve never heard of..The “stars” of the NFL could care less about these folks as well..They just want that big payday. They are in court because they want to keep that big payday. They dont care if special teams gunner #4 gets paid 40K a year as long as they get their 5 million dollar check…..Hopefully the courts say that it was a sham, and the owners wipe the floor with them..Then they can cut salaries the big shots getting mega millions can really see what it was like to be a retired player or an “average” player
]]>By: eaglesfan290http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069260
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:25:17 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069260I love these pro player comments lets use the 9/11 game to gain leverage!

Shame on you, maybe Seal Team 6 should pay a visit to De Smith next if that’s the plan, the NFLPA* and players have nothing is common with Pat Tillman or any other American hero who fought or died for this Country!

What a GD disgrace you people are, if that’s what this comes down to watch how the fans turn their back on you.

BTW funny how I can’t find that Forbes Survey and 1,533 fans is hardly a Survey they have 10 times that voting just on this site. Plus Forbes is likely a Pro Business magazine they would never even publish results like that!

]]>By: 411dooleybug1http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069251
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:20:48 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069251Oops. Guess the players should have hired David Cornwell. At least the guy is smart and wants football. This would have been done by now. De Smith and his Pimphat need to go back to the 70s and have a roundtable with Huggy Bear, Danny Bonaduce, David Cassidy and Big Jim Slade.
]]>By: tommyf15http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069250
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:20:19 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069250thebion says:
If it really does get toward opening weekend and the players are still choosing to try and fight it out in court then they will lose a large portion of what public support they have, I’m pretty sure of that.

I’ve seen plenty of labor battles in professional sports (since I’m older than 24) and trust me when I say the public never support the players, regardless of the circumstances. Never.

Example: I remember back in 2011 when the NFL opted out of a deal, asked the players for an extra one billion dollars a year, and instituted a lockout to get the additional money. The fans rabidly supported the owners anyway.

]]>By: descendencyhttp://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069248
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:18:10 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069248The players won’t remain unified so their stars can get large pay increases while they miss game checks and their families are left in the cold.

Remember I said this… in July/August (maybe early September at the latest), the bulk of players (30+ per team) will unify and tell the union to end the fight and concede the other 10 million per team (320 million total – of which they will see 0 dollars of) and negotiate the rest of the terms with the league. A deal will be signed and football will be played.

Many people say they’d watch scabs simply because they are wearing that fan’s team’s uniform. But guess what…you won’t have a chance to watch the scabs. Know why?

Because nobody will pay $400+ to go to the games. If the games aren’t sold out, they’re blacked out. No TV = No $$ = No football.

Even if you could watch the scabs, you must be braindead if you’re willing to watch a bunch of high-school washouts run around just b/c they’re wearing an NFL jersey. People watch for entertainment. If the real talent moves to the UFL, the NFL is OVER. Put it this way….I don’t know who your team is but if they suited up a bunch of ballerinas, are you telling me you’d still watch?? Be real.

That is why the owners need the players more than the players need the owners.

Small sample size, even if such a poll exists. I notice you provided no link.

I think there’s a poll being conducted right now on this site and last I looked, the sample size is far larger and the results are quite the opposite.

But polls, no matter what the result really never have mattered and never will. The owners don’t care about polls, nor should they. And anybody with any common sense at all knew from the very beginning that the players were never going to win this time around.

The players hired DeMaurice Smith because he sold them on his connections to Obama, which are really irrelevant. Once the owners decided to bite the bullet and take this the distance, specifically, out of the jurisdiction of the Minneaplis court room, hire a top rate team of lawyers, specifically Boice (sp) and Batterman, the game was essentially over. 78% of NFL players file for personal bankruptcy protection within two years of leaving the NFL. There is no way that any significant number of players can afford to miss even one game check. The closer we come to training camp, the longer free agents cannot sign and collect their signng bonuses, the panic amongst the players will rise exponenetially each and every day. Players will look at who it is who is leading them and where it is they are going. How long will it take even the most dense player to realize that Kevin Mawae has no skin in this game, and rightfully or wrongfully, how long will it be before a lot of them think that Mawae is just some bitter old has been and hanger on?

And how long will De Dig It’s posing, posturing and absurd and ludicrous comments continue to impress the players?

For all of Smith’s bluster and rididculous theatrics, he’s led the NFLPA and the players over a cliff.

]]>By: skins359http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069230
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:07:16 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069230possiblecabbage says:
May 17, 2011 6:56 PM
Why does the NFLPA employ representation that is so incapable of compromise?

141
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Because it’s hammered into them from an early age that winning is the only thing that matters. That you have to be competitive and can’t be discouraged. So naturally they hired a guy that’s all about winning and hostile take overs and the result is no football in 2011 and likely a terrible CBA in the future.

34.6% don’t know/don’t care.
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Hmmmm…I call bs on this one. Amazingly, the numbers were IDENTICAL to the little poll Mike has posted on here, with the exception being that the player/owner percentages are reversed, when I checked immediately after reading this post. (7:38 pm) and the changing of the wording on Mikes poll.

]]>By: huskersrock1http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/17/the-leverage-game-could-continue-beyond-june/#comment-1069225
Wed, 18 May 2011 00:00:56 +0000http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/?p=131293#comment-1069225I support the owners because I support the salary cap, restricted free agency and the draft. These are the things that have made the NFL great. The only way you could improve it is by eliminating free agency.
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