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Jun 28, 2006

BEFORE UPDATING FIRMWARE, READ THIS

Apparently updating firmware for the NXT is currently causing some users issues... please read ALL the comments in this post and the one above it (June 28, 2006) and its comments for an idea on how this issue might affect you...

There are two ways to "reset" the NXT brick. First, you need to find the little button hidden deep inside the outside pinhole on the bottom under the USB port. Next, you need to press it (a LEGO antenna works just great... why use a paperclip when you can use LEGO :-) ?). A short press just reset the brick (IMS). A longer push (push and hold) will put the NXT into firmware update mode (in these cases).

Try this: Hold the reset button down for about 4-5 seconds, and then try updating the firmware again... and if that ever-so-annoying clicking continues, we'll work on another solution.

The "new firmware" doesn't neccessarily provide any patches etc... I think Jim just wanted to make sure that the firmware that is on your NXT brick is the same as the firmware the NXT-G editor expects to find there (as with any new product, it went through several revisions). If it's not, strange things can happen.

If a solution isn't found for the ticking soon, most of you might have to reinstall the software so you go back to whatever version of the firmware is on the CD.

My apologies for suggesting this, as it seems to have caused some trouble. As a rule, though, it's always "supposed to be a good idea" to upload the latest firmware to account for added hardware compatibility and reduced bugs... maybe someone at LEGO will read this section and offer a fix??

Don't accept my answer as the final one, but I believe you have to reinstall the CD in order to backtrack to an earlier version of the firmware.

Be sure to save any .rbt files or MyBlock files you created elsewhere before you do an uninstall of the software - and you MUST do a clean uninstall before reinstalling... seem to remember that was stressed to me when I was installing the software again.

Yes it still happens after the 4 second reset. My original attempt that caused this was on a Mac. Thinking it was a Mac issue, I installed the software on my Windows box and tried again with the same results. Seems that once its screwed up in the Mac.. its gonna be screwed up for Windows as well.

I just got off the phone with Lego tech support (800) 363-2140. While the menu doesn't mention NXT, I just selected an option for a previous version. The tech support guy was a real joy. His spin is this:

1) NXT shouldn't have been released yet2) Issue is cross platform3) The have no suggestions now4) They are "working on it"

Okay, my suggestion, and I'll need someone's help who is running v1.01

Seems to me that when you download the firmware, somewhere on that screen is the path where the firmware is stored. Maybe someone who has v1.01 can find that location, email me the files, and I'll place them so they can be downloaded... maybe a simple overwrite of thev 1.03 file(s) will work. Can someone with v1.01 give this a shot?

TODD etal.I'm a teacher who of course ordered the commercial version to get it soon (but skimped on delivery), but also plans to order quite a few NXTeducation versions of my own money.Did he elaborate on "1) NXT shouldn't have been released yet" Should I hold off for later versions? Will they make them all work?WHAT is the commonality between all of you? If I have windows am I fine? (for once mac has a problem {actually its win software wanting to be a Mac I guess?)Any suggestions or specific warnings for people just recieving their NXT's (dont update, dont update mac? only update win? update always but know you may need to get a patch (or return to lego?) etc etc?Thanks all!

I think there's a way to connect the brick and upload to your hard drive any files on the brick... this should include the firmware, but I'm just guessing. I'm not on my laptop that has my NXT software to test this ability.

If this is possible, then it should be possible to grab v1.01... again, guessing.

All: Real world is calling - client meeting in 45 minutes so I'll be away for a few hours... will check in when I return.

Drew - I'm sure the hardware is fine to buy now and that the software is flawed. My NXT worked great out of the box. I was able to build a few projects with the kids. It was only when I tried to apply the firware did it die.

Is there any theoretical possibility of perminately damaging the NXT by "trying" the update (a software update does no good unless the brick will listen to the update.) Worst case senario please - could updating and getting a ticking result in an unfixable nxt? Legos pretty good with warranty type stuff so it would just be a delay - but I'd hate to see them be economically hurt on this venture.I want to TRY it. But not if there is a chance that the nxt would refuse further impreved updates.

PS how has the functionality been with the out of the box version? Is there a list of changes between versions or anyone able to report problems (what doesn't work).

To My Knowledge, you can not permentantly "break" your NXT by trying to put new firmware on it. For the technically-minded, when the reset button is pressed long enough, the NXT enters a boot-mode (i.e.- it's actually *supposed* to be making that annoying ticking). Really this is for the odd case where the NXT stops responding. Usually, you can updare the firmware *without* hitting the reset button. Again, To My Knowledge (although I'm certainly *NOT* employed by LEGO) you're not going to permenantly damage you new toy this way. There is a known issue with some BT dongles, in that while they are attached the firmware update option doesn't work (for some reason). This *may*? be part of the problem.

No, it is not a Mac issue, or a Windows issue, to my knowledge: there were plenty of each in the MDP, and we got it to work. I've two NXT's, and I've been upgrading the firmware for some time now (having gone through several beta versions).

There is not a way known to me to pull the firmware off a NXT and back into the computer; nor can you just "erase" the existing firmware, to provide a blank slate to upload new firmware. It doesn't work that way. Firmware is updated based on a small bit of boot-up code, and new firmware will overwrite preexisting firmware.

Regading the "shouldn't have been released" comment. I'm not sure what to say here. Is LEGO releasing an alpha version on you unsuspecting folks? NO! Let me repeat, I do NOT think this is the case. I suspect this is a case of a new piece of software suddenly being testing by several hundred folks on radically different machines with all sorts of odd install histories (Windows users: ever really browed your drivers? The list can be scary).

Suggestion for the "ticked off": remove the batteries, and count to 5. Now put them in. Still clicking? Put a LEGO antenna in the *correct* pinhole, and depress the rest button once briefly - you can feel it push in slightly, and if your not careful (especially with a paperclip) you can press on the bottom of that hole and just be pushing plastic, not button. Still clicking? Try pushing it in and holding it, fully pushed, for 5 seconds. Now, that (I *think* should have reset things so the NXT is now patiently awaiting a firmware update. Now, try running the environment, and then attach the clicking NXT to the computer via USB; make sure there are no BT dongles on the computer at the time, and you migbht want to try different USB ports. Ask the environment politely to update the firmware, and see what happens.

As to what the difference in functionality between the two firmware version is, I don't remember (if indeed I ever knew). But in general, the MDP has been running on 1.03 for some time now. Some of the blocks may have odd or reduced functionality under earlier (non-supported) versions of the firmware.

On a personal note, I'm sorry some of you are having these troubles. A lot of us on the MDP spent a good bit of time trying to break our toys (& sometimes succeeding) to try to prevent issues like this. All I can say is even a bunch of dedicated fans can't identify problems that we didn't find, and this sounds like one of them. We may not work for LEGO, folks, but we're trying to figure out how to help.

"Lucky people" isn't worth (or possible) to post a working firmware so people having problems can try with another one. May be there is a defect in some distribution CD and for what ever reason that file is corrupted.

I wanted to post and shre my experience with the NXT firmware. Hopefully it will help.

I use a dual core intel MacBook. I have the bluetooth capability turned OFF. I have never had a need for bluetooth until receiving my NXT kit, so it has been off to help battery life.

I installed the Mindstorms NXT application and proceeded to update to the 1.0.3 firmware. The firmware updated without incident and the new rcx is working perfectly with no clicks. I have cycled the unit on and off repeatedly, and have also downloaded a test program. I could not get my rcx to click like so many have experienced.

I have been lurking on the board throughout the day and would have to agree that problem seems to be related to the bluetooth functionality. You might try disabling your computer's bluetooth cpability, resetting your rcx, and trying updating the firmware again.

Hopefully this may help some, if not, hang in there I am sure that Lego or a bright NXT user will help us get through this very soon.

Well, at least you got a nice email. My tech support agent was quite rude to me at first telling me that he couldn't take my word that others were having the issue and it was most likely something I was doing because he had never heard of this issue. After checking with another agent he came back and said that others had indeed reported the issue. He also questioned their ability to support the mac. At that point in the conversation it was all "blah blah blah, you're screwed for a while.. blah blah blah." :)

I'm in I.T. and I understand things happen. I'll understand and wait the time it takes to get out a fix. I was just expecting a better experience from Lego tech support.

It should be noted that a stomach ache can be caused by many things (food poisoning, stress, coffee etc)Hence the same principle applies HERE. Their maybe multiple problems (not saying that likely) but when diagnosing I think we should look at BT for sure, but also keep an eye out for other commonalities from the MANY different computer configurations.

As for customer service the only time I've EVER had a problem was with ME knowing more about a product than the lego rep. Some times that can lead to a little "Wow slow down mister - and so how do you know THAT huh?"

They where so nice that when they called me back once and got my Mom (home from university back then) they actually told her how normal it was. "Actually mam, quite a few of our customers for this product, probably 60% are adults, and most of them are proffessionsal, doctors, engineers and teachers etc." That made my year (until she realized with another call to confirm that I might be a Lego UNDERACHIER... but those where RCX days... now during the NXT step I am on par.

I also had a problem updating the firmware, but I did eventually get it to work.

My first attempt (with my PowerBook) found the NXT and claimed to have downloaded it successfully, but the screen was blank on the NXT and it was clicking. I unplugged the NXT from the Mac and even tried to manually power cycle by pulling a battery. That didn't work.

For my second attempt, I reconnected the USB cable and tried again. This time the program on the MAC froze and I had to force it to quit. I then rebooted the Mac.

For my third attempt, I pressed the reset button for 4+ seconds and thought I heard it click differently. I then plugged in the USB and tried to download the update. This time it worked!

Except the motors didn't work! ARG.. I tried running the demo program it just sat there. I then power cycled the NXT and then the motors finally worked again.

Since it works for some (most?) people, my best guess is that there is some data corruption (over-/underrun?) in the USB transfer of the firmware when it fails. So I suggest trying to update the firmware on a different machine.

I downloaded the Robot C program from http://www-education.rec.ri.cmu.edu/robotc/

This includes their special firmware for the NXT. I thought that I would try to download it and see what happened. Well, their program said "successfully downloaded firmware" but then gave me an error saying "NXT failed to reboot after download." Yes, my NXT is still ticking. Doh! :)

He probably meant a different computer. Under the assumption that a different computer would use different components (different interactions/conflicts), a new install and have a chance to change atleast some variables in the hopes that one of them makes things better.

Okay, I was able to raise my brick from the dead. Here is the rundown. This may or may not work for anyone else:

How I killed it Using my PowerBook G4 I updated the firmware to 1.03 via USB (I had bluetooth on if that makes any difference). After the update - just ticks.

How I TRIED to fix it I installed the software on my windows machine, plugged the USB cable into the USB jack on my MONITOR and tried - no luck

How I got it to work unplugged the usb cable from the brick and computer. Reset the brick (5 seconds) without any cables. Plugged in the USB cable into the back of the computer and into the brick. Downloaded - SUCCESS. No why? Blind luck? Maybe. I was also thinking that there might be a difference in the USB between my monitor and the back of the computer... Powered vs no power or high power vs low power.

Rick, Todd... good news! Thanks. I never even thought of someone using anything other than the "normal" USB ports, but you are completely correct - the ones on a monitor or keyboard are almost certainly not the best bet. As to the BT issue, yes, trying a USB FW update on a machine with some BT dongles results in a problem (I think I mentioned this before), so that too is a good (great!) idea. Regarding turning BT on... well, I'm using it flawlessly on a PPC G4 Powebook with built-in BT, so I know you *can* do it that way: Rick, I think you should be able to enable BT for "normal" operation (again, at least I do).

If you really want to have fun, join the elite NXTbusters: now that you've got your NXT working again, try to see if you can reproduce "braking" it again, to figure out exactly how it happens. Hey, now you know part of what beta-testing is about ;-).

SO is this a solution? Primary full power USB ports and No Bluetooth and then tryu again? is that it? Or ar people still having trouble once they tried the above? As they might say on NXTBusters (mythbusters style)Is the NXT Ticking Sollution Confirmed (99% solved), Plausable (some people) or Busted (none)

I have a hardware problem. I just opened the NXT box today and put together the starter kit. The A port on the brick is not responding to "try me" and just sounds a continous beep. I'm 90% sure that the port has shipped broken or defective.

I'm still having problems, I have tryed everything I've read, I tryed about 8 different ports (on 2 different computers). I don't have any bluetooth on either computer but was wondering if maybe there's some option that might be on the computer that has the same affect even though I don't have the bluettoth hardware. Also is it possible I could have bricked it, because it froze the first time I tryed to update firmware, but it froze before it even reached "Preparing NXT".

S.B. - don't be hard on yourself - it's not you. My son and I have spent the past 24 hours trying all the great suggestions, same as you. Two computers, seven USB ports (only USB 2.0 no 1.1 in the house), reinstalling software - you name it.

I spoke with Tech Support earlier today(dial 800-363-2140 and press 1, then press 5 - there is no NXT option yet) and, while trying very hard and spending over 20 minutes on the phone with me, they had no additional suggestions.

They promised to have the Developers contact me - after July 4th weekend.

In the meantime, I encourage everyone who HAD or still HAS the problem to email help@legomindstorms.com so they get a sense of how widespread the problem is.

When I contacted Lego tech support, they asked me to email to them a copy of my "reqcheck.xml" file (C:/Program Files/Lego Software/Lego Mindstorms NXT) Lego as well as to some special non-lego email account. Not sure what they were looking for...

In any case, I received an email from Lego stating they could not read the .xml file and to send it to them in .txt format. I just opened the .xml file and did a copy-and-paste of the info.

I had the same problem when attempting firmware v 1.03 download with an iMac G5. Tried resetting (short and long), changing USB ports, restarting the computer and the software application. All with no success, and the same annoying ticking sound.

I then tried with my MacBook (Intel 2.0GHz), and achieved success with v 1.03 dwnload on the first attempt.

I understand that the software application runs on Rosetta emulation on the Intel Macs, and that could, in theory, affect the download speed/inter message delays, etc.. Just guessing..

I agree that the problem seems to be related to the download process rather than the software itself..

Havent played around much with other things to comment on stability/functional issues with the firmware/hardware.

I have 2 NXT bricks which both had the clicking problem after the software update. I solved this by upgrading the bricks from a cleanly installed machine with a VIA Nehemiah processor.Previous attemts to upgrade the firmware was done from 3 different machines all containing AMD processors.

NXT just died after online firmware upgrade to 1.03.Now I see this to be a known issue with Lego. So much for the registration benefits. They could have shot an email out to me about this bug before I go stuck on it....

Thanks Jim,The Lego help site tells me to refer to my printed manual. There is no printed manual in my box! Just a 'how to build my first unit' pamphlet.There is no PDF on the CD and I can not find a user guide to download off the Lego site.I have pushed the button under batteries (which I assume is the reset) multiple times from a few to many seconds.Changed all new batteries to again all new batteries.

Unit just dead. No tick, no click, 'no nothing' (I know double negative). Hard to believe that I grew up with this company and now they manage to have my sons and I sit here and wonder why a large company like Lego can release such a flawed product. Just proves that pasted reputation is no indication of future (or in this case, present) ability to put a working product out there.I do not even see a phone help line, not even if I were willing to pay for the call.

OK, it's Christmas evening, and I was the alpha geek Dad who updates his son's firmware right away. Oops.

I'm on a Powerbook G4, and my NXT is now a brick that is not even clicking- just making a barely audible cyclical squeal, with nothing visible on the LCD screen. I can't seem to update or downgrade the firmware, since the screen won't wake up and the Mindstorms software can't connect to the NXT.

We just had the very same problem and this thread and others helped solve the issue. Installing the 1.02 driver did the trick. We did not delete any files from the PC nor did we remove the 1.04 update.

After the we updated the driver we just rebooted, started the update software, selected the 1.03 firmware and it installed fine. We then tried 1.04 and it also worked.

OK, I hope this helps everyone with that nasty klicking and useless nxt block.

Santa brought ours on Christmas and everything was fine until good old Dad tried to update the firmware to v1.04. The block came with 1.01 installed and performed an update to v1.03 when we hooked it up to the computer.

We are an Apple family and have 3 computers all of the powerPC generation. Our son uses his to do his nxt programming. He has a 14" iBook G4. I have a first generation 12" Powerbook G4 (867 MHz). I'm telling you this because others on the blog have tried using other computers to solve their clicking dead nxt blocks.

Anyway, here is what I did to solve the problem. I did what everyone else on this blog reported worked and had no luck. What worked however is this—start with disconnecting your nxt block from all of the sensor wires and motor wires. Pull the battery out and count to 10 or more. Replace the battery. Do a hard reset—use a heavy wire paperclip to push the button inside the Technic hole in the upper left corner of the nxt block, it's just below the USB outlet. Remember hold the button down for at least 10 seconds. Your going to get the clicking sound again but that's OK. You want that. As others have reported, this means that the block is ready to be updated.

What I did from here is start from scratch. I turned off the BT connection on my computer. I reloded the Lego software to the computer. Then I went on line to the Lego Mindstorms update site http://mindstorms.lego.com/support/updates/ there I found an update: MINDSTORMS NXT Driver v1.02 "This software updates the LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT driver and addresses an issue that prevents the firmware from being downloaded to the NXT on some occasions."

I followed these instructions provided by Lego: "When you have installed the new driver and want to download new firmware to the NXT, please initialize the NXT brick before you start downloading the firmware. If your NXT is clicking when you insert batteries, push the hardware reset button for five seconds before you insert the USB cable. This will ensure that the brick initializes correctly for the firmware download. The hardware reset button is located within the LEGO Technic hole below the USB connector on the NXT brick. If your NXT brick is not clicking when you insert batteries just go through the normal firmware download process as described within the manual when the new driver is installed."

I then launched the nxt software and performed the upgrade: go to Tools > Update NXT Firmware. Your User Guide explains all this on pages 74 and 75. I only upgraded to v1.03 which comes with the CD Install Disk. It worked fine when I we first installed so it should work fine now. And if you read the firmware upgrade for v1.04 it says:

NOTE: Only update your firmware if you have experienced issues related to the above

So unless you are experiencing these issues I'd leave well enough alone. "Son, do as I say not as I do."

There must be a USB driver issue and the driver is missing in v1.03. You have to download and load this driver update and the USB connection works. Take your time and don't throw your nxt across the room and you'll be OK. (I didn't pitch it across the room only because my son was with me, keep your kid next to you at all times, they're presence will likely prevent you from making rash and destructive mistakes)

Hi,I am not sure if I am on the right path, but, I did download "Win32 leJOS NXJ- Alpha version 0.2.0"from: "http://lejos.sourceforge.net/p_technologies/nxt/nxj/downloads.php" and I did create the ssystem/ user variales and everythingand then put my brick on the update mood, I connected it to the computer..but nothing, except beeping, happened!then I tried to put it back to the initial firmware by NXT software.now my brick is working fine, but I still dont have firmware changed to NXJ!any idea, how should I try to make it work?

btw, I have Java on my computer. but when I downloaded files from leJos website I saved them on desktop.. was that going to make a problem?

Because you are posting a comment in a post from June 2006, over a year ago. Most people do not go back and read comments from that long ago. We now have forums for questions and I would suggest you post there and more people will be able to offer up help.

Following the instructions posted far above (pull the battery for a few seconds, hit the reset for at least five seconds and then updating the firmware worked like a champ! Updating to firmware 1.03 did nothing, but when I tried 1.05 which comes with the version 1.1 through Lego Education, it updated in about 10 seconds and XP immediately recognized the brick as new hardware. I should note that until I got it to update the firmware, XP had no idea anything was plugged into the USB port and it wasn't visible under the NXT programming environment, so don't be discouraged if you don't see anything happen when you plug into the USB cable.

The part that helped me was trying it on a second machine, I just wish i knew what the solution to reseting the usb configuration for the original machine was, as this would probably also have fixed it.

I had same problem after updating v1.05 firmware today. Finally, I gotta install the Mindstorm software into other computer, then put NXT brick into firmware update mode, then connect the USB cable, run Firmware Update from Mindstorm software, download v1.03 and it worked again. Note that when I tried v1.05 it had the same problem with ticking sound, v1.03 works fine.

Bought the NXT 2.0 Went to update the firmware from 1,2,8 to 1,2,9. After that the thing turned off and it startet clicking. I have tried taking out all cables, batteries, putting the batteries (fresh) back again. Tried the reset button for more than 10 seconds... Nothing, tried this tons of times. Its dead.

I am getting to be very tired of expensive things that dont work. Cant even get a support phone. AND WORST OF ALL!!!! In all these years since 2006, LEGO has not even responded with a fix. I am not proud of being danish today!!!

The disappointment on my sons face is evident. Shame on a crappy product.. LEGO

Well, its me the frustrated dane again. After writing this and putting another set of batteries in and holding the reset button for more than 60 seconds. I tried via the USB to download the firmware again. Even though its clicking, it worked once i tried to tell it to install (Download) firmware 1.2.9

So the solution was to think out of the box, and yet again be patient!

Thanks to all the rest here, for pointing out that patience is a virtue. especially when your kids next too you!

Firmware update seems random at best. I tried the following:1. both reset types.2. install updated fantom driver.3. plugging the laptop into mains power.4. fresh batteries, alkaline not rechargeable.5. a high quality USB cable.Somewhere in 4 or 5 it decided to work, maybe the supplied USB cable is crappy. I don't know. Good luck.

The firmware process seems random at best. I tried the following before it worked:1. both reset types.2. update Fantom driver.3. plug macbook into mains power.4. fresh batteries, alkaline not rechargeable.5. use a high quality USB cable.Somewhere between 4 and 5 the firmware update decided it would work. Good luck.

I inserted six AA Alkaline Batteries.Pressed the reset button for almost 2 minutes.Go find another USB cable. Turn the NXT on.Enjoyed the ticking for a while, saying goodbye to it.Plug the USB cable in both Mac and NXT.Launched Mindstorms.app.Updated the firmware. (1.31)It just works!

Yesterday, i did update the software, but it was taking too long, and the NXT only produce the ticking sound. so i plug the USB out without waiting the update to finish. (fyi, this time I downloaded 1.31) and, obviously, i failed. I tried many tricks said by friends up there, and didn't get to work it out. i changed to PC and it solves nothing. i tried downloading the 1.03 version on PC, and failed again. After i take a nap, I read Mike's advice.

i return to my mac again and tried to update with the 1.31 version, and it works.

My dad suggests the problem would be because i did not finish the update, so the NXT was half running in 1.03 and half running in 1.31. which will crash.

I just loaded version 1.29 into an old NXT. Now all I get is the ticking as soon as you plug in the batteries or reset the NXT. Is there any way to get firmware version 1.03 back into my NXT. It is completely dead. The NXT software indicates the 1.03 was loaded properly, but it still does nothing but tick.

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