20 posts in this topic

A whole cadre of internet commenters has already come to this conclusion. They're chafed by the car's 3.5-liter twin-turbo V6 sharing dimensions with a pickup truck engine; they're incensed at the audacity of Ford, honest American Ford, doing the Ferrari thing, hand-selecting only the worthiest customers—and charging them a half-million dollars for the honor. "Lotta money for a V6," they sneer, usually with typos.

I'm happy to tell you they're dead wrong. It's not that Ford has failed to achieve supercar status. It's that the new GT is so purposeful, so exactingly and innovatively designed, that it reaches beyond the genre of European two-seat screamers built for maximum envy induction at felony speed.

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Here is the problem. The car while a great car is about $250K more than it should be. In this day and age Audi and Mclaren both have very good cars at half the price.

I suspect GM will have the new C8 in the top line form first with a $170K-200K car that will out run and handle the GT with a V8 truck engine.

Then GM will leverage that model in cheaper forms all the way down to a Stingray replacement in a few years for $69K. It will be in several models like the present C7 and offer different levels of exotic and performance.

Fords mistake was they should have taken the GT they had and improved it and learned to dumb it down to the masses.

Lets face it the Ford is a special car but once you get to $500K or more with dealer mark ups there are much more special names out there than Ford.

In the future there will be a limited number of models and it will be a foot note in Automotive history. Kind of like the last one that was low volume that many people never even saw one of on the street. While the Corvette will go on and win at Le Mans and be seen in the parking lots where you work.

Even Chevy and the Corvette is a great car it will never be a brand or model that should command a price of a Ferrari or other treasured limited edition exotic name.

In the end no matter what they do and what they sell they are still a Chevy and Ford.

For Ford the real issue is if someone asks you what do you own. You would say a Ford GT. They then would ask Mustang? Lets face it for that price they should have bought the rights to GT40.

Here is the problem. The car while a great car is about $250K more than it should be. In this day and age Audi and Mclaren both have very good cars at half the price.

I suspect GM will have the new C8 in the top line form first with a $170K-200K car that will out run and handle the GT with a V8 truck engine.

Then GM will leverage that model in cheaper forms all the way down to a Stingray replacement in a few years for $69K. It will be in several models like the present C7 and offer different levels of exotic and performance.

Fords mistake was they should have taken the GT they had and improved it and learned to dumb it down to the masses.

Lets face it the Ford is a special car but once you get to $500K or more with dealer mark ups there are much more special names out there than Ford.

In the future there will be a limited number of models and it will be a foot note in Automotive history. Kind of like the last one that was low volume that many people never even saw one of on the street. While the Corvette will go on and win at Le Mans and be seen in the parking lots where you work.

Even Chevy and the Corvette is a great car it will never be a brand or model that should command a price of a Ferrari or other treasured limited edition exotic name.

In the end no matter what they do and what they sell they are still a Chevy and Ford.

For Ford the real issue is if someone asks you what do you own. You would say a Ford GT. They then would ask Mustang? Lets face it for that price they should have bought the rights to GT40.

Ford has already sold every 2017 model and half the 2018 models they will build.

Just they will do little to advance the Ford name out side people who buy posters?

Ford is a mass production company just as Chevy.

Lets face it how much of a challenge is it to sell 250 units per year?

Build a car like this sell it at half the cost, win the same races and 10 times as many.

Ford is not Ferrari and never will be no matter what they build. HF II found that out after he spent a lot of money and had little to show for it in the rest of the company.

look it is a great car with no argument but it is the wrong car for Ford.

Even VW knew not to call the Veyron a Volkswagen.

It is the same reason Cadillac needs to put a mid engine sport car ideas away till the take the lead in what they are known for world class luxury cars.

Ford should have made this car priced lower and in higher volume so someone might see one on the street some day.

just my view and I have seen others thinking the same in print.

I don't want you to agree and I am not trying to change any minds. This was just my personal thinking right or wrong.

Yeah, Ford has built value performance for generations. I applaud them for occasionally building an extreme machine that is hand built carbon fiber with a full blown race engine. The fact that you want it for half price is not going to make them change their minds.

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Yeah, Ford has built value performance for generations. I applaud them for occasionally building an extreme machine that is hand built carbon fiber with a full blown race engine. The fact that you want it for half price is not going to make them change their minds.

Never said I was going to change their minds. Never said it was a bad car.

It is just my opinion this does not fit their business model well and will be built for about 4 years and a good chance not followed up for a while like the last two Ford GT model. From a business aspect I think they would have done better to make something like the Corvette in greater numbers that is cool but seen and get the full return on the investment.

Most of these cars will go to collections and never seen by anyone or associated to anything else they make.

Hell I would not want Chevy to do a Half Million Dollar Corvette for the same reasons.

From a cool aspect this car is a home run. From a business aspect other than winning Le Mans 50 years after the fact with a lot of help from the BOP it holds little business value. In fact I think Ford failed to cash in on the win as much as they should have. That should have been a major part of their marketing.

The fact is there is nothing GM and Ford can not do to challenge and beat any other MFG in the world. But just because you can is not always a smart business choice.
Lets just say the return on investment here is really not much in light of the lack of marketing over the win and the visibility of the car outside the autos how circuits is nil.

Odds are they are either making little money or losing money on this car even at this price point. It may be why they extended two more years to help cover the cost even though the second year remains not sold out as last I have heard.

Other companies have done the same. the XJ220 was another poor choice. Jag was not known for that kind of car and then it was not even street legal here in the states. It really had no racing to fall on other than that ESPN series in Indiana? They spent a lot of money and the return was limited at best and now the car is just a foot note in history.

There is no right or wrong here I just have my view and it is from the business side here. This car will not harm Ford in any way but I just see it as something that could have been done a different way and gave Ford more in return.

We may see what I envision coming from GM in a year and at that time we will know see how that works out and we can compare results. No better way to prove something.

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Hyper.. NEVER disagree with Ford's decisions. Wings will instantly be butt-hurt and jump in to defend. He is the only guy in existence I kno who actually believed that the Lincoln MKT would send the Escalade packing. He actually said this when it debuted.. using the word "sexy" to describe it. What it did to me was to kno never ever go on a blind date with a woman Wings set me up with.. cause his idea of sexy would have me banging from behind a chick with the face and body of Rosie O'Donnel with no make-up

They bought a street legal race car and sold 500 copies to 500 collectors with the coin to do so. Hyper's point is that they did nothing to really move the brand.. as it is so super niche. If the Ford execs sign off on a "Corvette" style approach.. finally giving Ford a sports car then I could see the point. Of course then the Shelby will have some on the lot competition just like the Camaro has for 50 years. The Corvette approach is essentially a brand within a brand.. but even I can admit that in terms of "special" even the upcoming ZR1 or Mid-engined C8 will not command the same admiration or covet as the 488GTB.. simply because of the name. Proof positive as to WHY Ford should have kept Jaguar.. and GM really should send that exotic mid-engine to Cadillac, leaving the Vette Front engined and maaaaaaaaaybe a ZR1 only off the Cadillac version.

In truth.. we all kno that its a lil more complicated than this.. I guess.. but U will never see a Mclaren parked outside the local Advanced Auto or Pep Boys with the owner inside picking up engine parts. U kno someone will THINK even if it doesn't happen.. that a Ford GT or ZR1 owner will go to those parts stores. And in this case.. perception is everything when U spend $500... even $200K on a car.

Hey and don't get it twisted.. I'm not proud of either GM or Ford in building a car like this.. they are two of the biggest in the business.. once the absolute biggest.. why would it surprise anyone that they have the kno-how to do this?

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Really, did casa just enter this thread and suggest I defend Ford too much. HarHarHar.
Comic relief at its finest.

Hyper, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am completely entitled to mine to disagree.
If Ford can get twice what they are asking for, more power to them.

And as far as cost goes, for reference, I heard the wheels and tires alone cost more than a Mustang GT. So you might want to rethink your entry level super car price suggestion, if you don’t want others to disagree.

I hope that some day I can see a real GT in person, sit in it and check it out. So far I have to go with magazines and web pictures. Would be nice to have a GT tour where common folk could get up close and personal and maybe even go for a spin in the auto.

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Really, did casa just enter this thread and suggest I defend Ford too much. HarHarHar.
Comic relief at its finest.

Hyper, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I am completely entitled to mine to disagree.
If Ford can get twice what they are asking for, more power to them.

And as far as cost goes, for reference, I heard the wheels and tires alone cost more than a Mustang GT. So you might want to rethink your entry level super car price suggestion, if you don’t want others to disagree.

We have always respected and got along in the past lets keep it this way. In a pissing match both parties end up with wet legs and it was 7 degrees this AM and too cold for that LOL!.

Just for reference here a McLaren 570 GT is based on a carbon Fiber platform with a base price of $187.300.

Not my favorite car but for the money it is a lot of car from an exotic MFG. With such a low price there are many options that can be had and very similar performance. In fact it may be a better street car since that was the intent.

Not saying you are wrong for how you see it but there are just other things to consider. This is why I think it is important for Chevy to keep to a $170K price range and compete with the cars that are produced in real volumes. Then if they can dumb down a base model with outstanding performance to $70K it would be a real icon.

I just do not want to see GM make 250 cars a year and call it a Chevy and try to sell it for half a million. It does not diminish the car just the effect on the market.

As for the price of the wheels it matters little it is what the car does with those wheels that matters just as what the car does for the company in the long run.

Fords commitment has been to make the GT 3 times in about 50 years, for only a couple years at a time. GM took the long road and has built thousands of Corvettes a year for going on 70 years. Now look at each program and see the long term effect and how each has had these car impact their models. Ford has received benefits for a few years at a high cost per car sold. GM on the other hand has gotten more mileage from the marketing and for what amounts to pennies on the dollar in comparison over a much longer time.

Once this program is completed in 4 years it will vanish like the last two GT programs to the history books.

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We have always respected and got along in the past lets keep it this way. In a pissing match both parties end up with wet legs and it was 7 degrees this AM and too cold for that LOL!.

Just for reference here a McLaren 570 GT is based on a carbon Fiber platform with a base price of $187.300.

Not my favorite car but for the money it is a lot of car from an exotic MFG. With such a low price there are many options that can be had and very similar performance. In fact it may be a better street car since that was the intent.

Not saying you are wrong for how you see it but there are just other things to consider. This is why I think it is important for Chevy to keep to a $170K price range and compete with the cars that are produced in real volumes. Then if they can dumb down a base model with outstanding performance to $70K it would be a real icon.

I just do not want to see GM make 250 cars a year and call it a Chevy and try to sell it for half a million. It does not diminish the car just the effect on the market.

As for the price of the wheels it matters little it is what the car does with those wheels that matters just as what the car does for the company in the long run.

Fords commitment has been to make the GT 3 times in about 50 years, for only a couple years at a time. GM took the long road and has built thousands of Corvettes a year for going on 70 years. Now look at each program and see the long term effect and how each has had these car impact their models. Ford has received benefits for a few years at a high cost per car sold. GM on the other hand has gotten more mileage from the marketing and for what amounts to pennies on the dollar in comparison over a much longer time.

Once this program is completed in 4 years it will vanish like the last two GT programs to the history books.

your first words in this thread were defining the "problem" that Ford has because of their name and because other super cars cost less. I just don't get that and I will never agree to that. All cars are not alike, and thus, all super cars are not alike. Ford has a had long rich history of racing and high performance and high technology, this is not their first rodeo. Just because they also sell Fiesta cars, does not preclude them from selling ultra exotics. The price is completely commensurate with the product delivered, combined with the exclusivity of it. How many carbon fiber ultra lightweight LeMans winning super cars are currently on the market? People who are buying this car up, know this. It's not for everyone. If it were, it would be another $200K aluminum or fiberglass or whatever-bodied V8 sports car. I celebrate this for what it is, not something they might sell more of.

MB is facing more and more people questioning if they are a Luxury car company or a Toyota, Ford, Chevy Company. You will always have die hard fans like us for one brand or another or one country over another. Badge snobs will either stay or change based on the perception they have about a product line.

MB has gone from Luxury only in the US to having mid and low level auto's and this is causing many to question what kind of company they are.

Ford on the other hand has never been a Luxury line of auto's in the level of MB s class, Ferrari, etc. So you will always have people question what the hell they are doing, no different than how others question why other product lines have created certain models.

Should the GT have been done under the Lincoln label? Could Lincoln have used this as a Halo car to launch their renaissance back into the Luxury market?

You can always second guess where a product should end up, question the components that are shared with others.

Is GT a great auto? YES, we are all in agreement on that. Could it have been priced less? Yes, Are they maximizing their Marketing potential with the current GT, racing wins and availability? Yes / No, this is a personal choice.

Over all, I am happy that we have it. Hyper brings up some valid points, Wings you point out some good points too.

End result, this auto will be in the Elite 1% club, in personal auto collections and we will rarely if ever see it on the real road.

Could Ford have taken a different approach to the GT? I would have to say yes.

Perception is everything and how things play out for some over others will always be different.

I am just happy we have the Corvette, GT and so many other awesome American Engineered and Made auto's!

Remember, this is nothing personal, but debates on the products, marketing and sales with our own take on style, plus so much more.

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your first words in this thread were defining the "problem" that Ford has because of their name and because other super cars cost less. I just don't get that and I will never agree to that. All cars are not alike, and thus, all super cars are not alike. Ford has a had long rich history of racing and high performance and high technology, this is not their first rodeo. Just because they also sell Fiesta cars, does not preclude them from selling ultra exotics. The price is completely commensurate with the product delivered, combined with the exclusivity of it. How many carbon fiber ultra lightweight LeMans winning super cars are currently on the market? People who are buying this car up, know this. It's not for everyone. If it were, it would be another $200K aluminum or fiberglass or whatever-bodied V8 sports car. I celebrate this for what it is, not something they might sell more of.

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MB is facing more and more people questioning if they are a Luxury car company or a Toyota, Ford, Chevy Company. You will always have die hard fans like us for one brand or another or one country over another. Badge snobs will either stay or change based on the perception they have about a product line.

MB has gone from Luxury only in the US to having mid and low level auto's and this is causing many to question what kind of company they are.

Ford on the other hand has never been a Luxury line of auto's in the level of MB s class, Ferrari, etc. So you will always have people question what the hell they are doing, no different than how others question why other product lines have created certain models.

Should the GT have been done under the Lincoln label? Could Lincoln have used this as a Halo car to launch their renaissance back into the Luxury market?

You can always second guess where a product should end up, question the components that are shared with others.

Is GT a great auto? YES, we are all in agreement on that. Could it have been priced less? Yes, Are they maximizing their Marketing potential with the current GT, racing wins and availability? Yes / No, this is a personal choice.

Over all, I am happy that we have it. Hyper brings up some valid points, Wings you point out some good points too.

End result, this auto will be in the Elite 1% club, in personal auto collections and we will rarely if ever see it on the real road.

Could Ford have taken a different approach to the GT? I would have to say yes.

Perception is everything and how things play out for some over others will always be different.

I am just happy we have the Corvette, GT and so many other awesome American Engineered and Made auto's!

The Benz issue is an American one. Here we only have seen for decades their high end models for the most part and only few low end models that generally go notices. In most other markets Benz is a do all brand with high end and low end models that are accepted at face value. It is not unusual in most countries around the world to have high end customers in traffic next to the low end E class Taxi.

BMW and Benz here in America have generally focused on the higher end model and are only now looking to the cheaper classes for more volume. Companies today thrive on volume and will seek it out any where they sell cars and try to maximize it.

Because of this many feel it cheapens the image of the brand here but it is the norm in Germany. My Dad lived in Germany for many years and he said most Germans see a Benz like any GM car just they have their Cadillac and Chevy all under the same brand.

Perception is 90% of the game and in this one it is a matter of where you are living.

The problem is Ford is not know as anything even at Lincoln for having a car like this. Even when they owned the premier luxury group it hurt the image of jag and Aston as they were seen as degraded. Jag took the greatest hit since they shared platforms with Ford.

Same applies to Toyota as the LFA. While a very advanced and high end car not many cared. It goes pretty much forgotten already.

When you go up against low volume specialty brands that focus on one thing and are know for one thing only it gives them an advantage. When your car is built in the same building as the McLaren F1 team it give the owner clout and his own perceived thinking he has something really special.

The Exotic car market was one that the prices of the cars just kept going up and up to the Million dollar mark. Today it has split and now we have the really high end cars that are $600K to over a Million. Now there is a second group that is moving to $500K to now the high $100K range.

Now you can buy a 200 MPH mid engine sports car with a carbon tub for under $200K made by a F1 MFG. That is impressive and even scares the likes of Ferrari as they are now going to have to take a real look at this segment. This is not like Porsche trying to sell a 924 so you can own the name it is a real deal of 200 MPH top end with 0-60 in 3 seconds with exotic materials. You want to go faster just add a upgraded option track pack and you still have an amazing exotic for much less than the really high end cars are.

The exotic markets are changing they are in great need to remain exclusive but they are facing a growing need of volume. So far it is bringing super cars to the segment at less than half the price of what it used to take. Chevy will raise the bar with the C8 as they have with the C7 for an exotic for the common man.