Sunday, 13 October 2013

Hebrews and Daniel contradictions?

There are some things that need to be put onto the table itself regarding certain issues. For example one comment that has often been seen is trying to pit Hebrews 7:12 and Daniel 7:25 against one another to try and say that Jesus stands condemned. Although I have been told that it’s not necessarily Jesus but a Christian Zealot or the writer to Hebrews. In any case, it certainly is not any of the three. Let’s go to Daniel 7, we’ll look at the context. You can find the whole of Daniel 7 in this article for the sake of convenience.

“7 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon, Daniel had a dream, and visions passed through his mind as he was lying in bed. He wrote down the substance of his dream.2 Daniel said: “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me were the four winds of heaven churning up the great sea. 3 Four great beasts, each different from the others, came up out of the sea.4 “The first was like a lion, and it had the wings of an eagle. I watched until its wings were torn off and it was lifted from the ground so that it stood on two feet like a human being, and the mind of a human was given to it. 5 “And there before me was a second beast, which looked like a bear. It was raised up on one of its sides, and it had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. It was told, ‘Get up and eat your fill of flesh!’6 “After that, I looked, and there before me was another beast, one that looked like a leopard. And on its back it had four wings like those of a bird. This beast had four heads, and it was given authority to rule.7 “After that, in my vision at night I looked, and there before me was a fourth beast—terrifying and frightening and very powerful. It had large iron teeth; it crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. It was different from all the former beasts, and it had ten horns.8 “While I was thinking about the horns, there before me was another horn, a little one, which came up among them; and three of the first horns were uprooted before it. This horn had eyes like the eyes of a human being and a mouth that spoke boastfully.”
The first section shows the dream itself and what will happen, Pretty basic stuff. The four great beasts represent 4 kingdoms that will be around in the end of days.

“9 “As I looked, “thrones were set in place, and the Ancient of Days took his seat.His clothing was as white as snow; the hair of his head was white like wool.His throne was flaming with fire, and its wheels were all ablaze.10 A river of fire was flowing, coming out from before him.Thousands upon thousands attended him; ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him.The court was seated, and the books were opened.11 “Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and thrown into the blazing fire. 12 (The other beasts had been stripped of their authority, but were allowed to live for a period of time.) 13 “In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man,[a] coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all nations and peoples of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.”
The next reference speaks of the kingdoms of the earth with one being destroyed and the others spared for a time but not indefinitely. We are also introduced to a figure that comes before the Ancient of Days and is given an everlasting dominion over all the earth. This wouldn’t be a reference to Anti-Christ, because his reign would be short-lived. Jesus claims to be this son of man coming on the clouds of heaven in Mark 14 and alludes to it in other passages such as Mark 13 and Matthew 24. Even in those chapters, Jesus is alluding to the figure in Daniel as well as the abomination of desolation of Daniel 9, which is another topic neither here nor there.

“15 “I, Daniel, was troubled in spirit, and the visions that passed through my mind disturbed me. 16 I approached one of those standing there and asked him the meaning of all this. “So he told me and gave me the interpretation of these things: 17 ‘The four great beasts are four kings that will rise from the earth. 18 But the holy people of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever—yes, for ever and ever.’19 “Then I wanted to know the meaning of the fourth beast, which was different from all the others and most terrifying, with its iron teeth and bronze claws—the beast that crushed and devoured its victims and trampled underfoot whatever was left. 20 I also wanted to know about the ten horns on its head and about the other horn that came up, before which three of them fell—the horn that looked more imposing than the others and that had eyes and a mouth that spoke boastfully. 21 As I watched, this horn was waging war against the holy people and defeating them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came and pronounced judgment in favor of the holy people of the Most High, and the time came when they possessed the kingdom.23 “He gave me this explanation: ‘The fourth beast is a fourth kingdom that will appear on earth. It will be different from all the other kingdoms and will devour the whole earth, trampling it down and crushing it. 24 The ten horns are ten kings who will come from this kingdom. After them another king will arise, different from the earlier ones; he will subdue three kings. 25 He will speak against the Most High and oppress his holy people and try to change the set times and the laws. The holy people will be delivered into his hands for a time, times and half a time.[b]26 “‘But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. 27 Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of all the kingdoms under heaven will be handed over to the holy people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.’28 “This is the end of the matter. I, Daniel, was deeply troubled by my thoughts, and my face turned pale, but I kept the matter to myself.””

In the following context, The Son of Man is not the fourth beast spoken of in Daniel 7 itself. Verse 25 is commonly understood to be a reference to the Anti-Christ who will speak against the Most High and declare himself as God to which he is soundly dealt with and his kingdom is brought to ruin forever. Jesus will do this in the Book of Revelation at the Father’s command. He’ll come on the clouds of heaven in Revelation 19 to bring judgement to the whole earth, After all “the Father had entrusted all judgement to the Son” as Jesus said. One thing I can say about the section with the Holy People of the Most High, Those who believe in Christ will be co-heirs with him in heaven and the kingdom belongs to them, Jew and Gentile who have been washed by the blood of Jesus. The Kingdom is the property of the Father and the Son and the saints co reign with Christ.

Now looking at Hebrews 7, The chapter itself speaks of Melchizedek who is “Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, resembling the Son of God, he remains a priest forever.” This doesn’t mean Jesus didn’t have a genealogy obviously but we know from context that Melchizedek is portrayed as a type of Christ who was a high priest of the God most high and was a king of Salem or Jerusalem. Hebrews as a whole speaks of a better covenant and a better atonement, just a better everything. Hebrews 7:12 has no connection to Daniel 7:25 at all, It is simply talks about a superior priesthood that has already been ushered in by Christ, it doesn’t speak of the end of days within this context, so to make the connection to suggest that Christians or Jesus are those who oppress the holy people is quite frankly a far stretch.

Gill in his exposition has suggested the following regarding this passage:
“For the priesthood being changed,.... Not translated from one tribe, family, or order, to another, but utterly abolished; for though it is called an everlasting priesthood, yet that is to be understood with a limitation, as the word "everlasting" often is, as relating to things under that dispensation; for nothing is more certain than that it is done away: it was of right abrogated at the death of Christ, and it is now in fact; since the destruction of Jerusalem, the daily sacrifice has ceased, and the children of Israel have been many days without one, and without an ephod.”

Hebrews 8 even speaks of the superiority of the New Covenant compared to the Old Covenant and that the Old Covenant points to the substance and that YHWH had promised a NEW covenant to THE JEWS. I emphasise that point because of the bogus idea of replacement theology claiming that the covenant was made with the church, which the NT doesn't suggest even implicitly. The Jews are still the chosen people, but that will not save them. Nor does it mean that the church replaces Israel as the chosen people. This a patristic invention, not apostolic teaching. The Gentiles only "replace" the unbelieving Jews, not the believing ones. Also, if the Jews can be cut off, SO CAN THE GENTILES AS WELL!! If God has rejected the Jews because of their disobedience, the church even more so would have to be rejected considering the apostasy of most churches of the USA and Europe collectively.

Anyway, the point is, Jeremiah 31:31 makes it clear and Hebrews 8 quotes it that the covenant was made with the Jews and no one else. Those who want to be part of the covenant, have to be grafted in, which took place after the resurrection. The text itself may not mention the Gentiles, but the possiblity of the Gentiles being grafted in, is not out of the question, considering it is not like the covenant that was made at Sinai. Israel through the Messiah would come to know the God of Israel and not have to teach their neighbor about him.

Feel free to examine my words with scripture and check them out for yourself.

About Me

I am a young apologist and a Gentile. A Christian. I seek to demonstrate the truth of Jesus Christ to the Rabbinic Jews for them to consider the belief in him, respond to objections and strengthen believers to defend Jesus biblically from the scriptures.
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bobo577 and Answering Judaism.
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