" Compared with other analogs, MeCbl is the most effective one in being uptaken by subcellular organelles of neurons. Therefore, MeCbl may provide better treatments for nervous disorders through effective systemic or local delivery."

Compared with other analogs, MeCbl is the most effective one in being uptaken by subcellular organelles of neurons. Therefore, MeCbl may provide better treatments for nervous disorders through effective systemic or local delivery

Unfortunately they offer no evidence to support this assertion. Nor do they provide any reference that may support it.

Neither do they seem to have tried hydroxocobalamin, cyanocobalamin or adenosylcobalamin for any of the treatments under study.

the use of the word may at several key points in the article makes me think that the purpose was to point to areas where further research would be useful rather than actually drawing any firm conclusions ... even the final sentence in the conclusion points to this.

Interesting though that in some countries B12 (which implies that it wasn't specifically related to MeCbl) was classified as an analgesic - would be interesting to know which countries and if it is still classed as such in any countries ... or why it stopped being classed as such.

"Unfortunately they offer no evidence to support this assertion. Nor do they provide any reference that may support it. Neither do they seem to have tried hydroxocobalamin, cyanocobalamin or adenosylcobalamin for any of the treatments under study." ? 🤔

FBIrder

This research is headed, "Methylcobalamin: Potential Vitamin of Pain Killer", and it seems the key word here is 'potential' - for alleviating pain in diabetic neuropathy, low back pain and neuralgia, etc. To quote them:

"More and more researches showed that MeCbl has beneficial effects on clinical and experimental peripheral neuropathy." and the research concludes with:

"As a vitamin, MeCbl may be a potential candidate for treating peripheral neuropathy with good safety."

What stands out, being a member of this site for 4 years, is that everyone has very different symptoms and responses to B12 in it's various forms. As Hillwoman has pointed out, many on this site have trimeginal neuralgia, etc. and would at least want the opportunity to try it.

I just wish my sister had known about this research before her surgery stopped hydroxocobalamin altogether, prescribing only a psychotic drug, (which I'm told depletes the immune system) for her neurological/psychiatric symptoms, completing ignoring and exacerbating the rest.

This research is headed, "Methylcobalamin: Potential Vitamin of Pain Killer"

Yes, indeed, it is. And I've no problem with any of the paper, apart from that one sentence that has no supporting evidence and will be pounced upon as 'evidence' for the superiority of methylcobalamin.

Indeed, you selected it as the part you felt important enough to quote as an extract.

I think you're missing the point FB. No one is claiming superiority of methylcobalamin, only that this particular form has the potential and MAY relieve pain and possibly regenerate nerves - what works for one person doesn't work for others.

Compared with other analogs, MeCbl is the most effective one in being uptaken by subcellular organelles of neurons. Therefore, MeCbl may provide better treatments for nervous disorders

It certainly sounds like this sentence (the one I have problems with and the one you chose to quote) is claiming (no maybe) that MeCbl is more effective (i.e., superior) than other analogs (i.e., HOCbl and CNCbl).

To be honest, fbirder , I think you are picking nits from the wrong scalp. Few of us here are scientists, and in consultation with our doctors even patients who are able to handle the nitty-gritty will not get an opportunity to do so.

Even if we do, rarely, get this opportunity, we may well find that our GPs have only a basic understanding of the biochemistry involved. The best most of us can do is to wave a relevant journal paper at the doctor, like the one Polaris has posted, and say, "These are my concerns, and look, these researchers are asking the same questions."

In trying to pick up the studies I abandoned 35 years ago (brain fog gets in the way), I've been surprised, to say the least, by the elementary nature of the biochem knowledge needed by undergraduates in medicine. Many GPs will know no more than an informed patient on this forum.

I would second Marz's suggestion that you join the Thyroid UK forum just to read the posts and replies by John Midgley. This is a man who has carried on research into his later years, and is eloquent about the "intellectual pygmies throwing rocks" whenever he publishes another paper on thyroid function. And this is the man who, decades ago, invented the tests for FT4 and FT3.

Quite right! I got that impression when I first started to use this Forum... some people think they're more important... how sad is that? People who are part of a Forum should be happy to really help others find a way forward in trying to get better. Life with health problems which GPs are unwilling/unable to help with is misery.

Frankly FB, after your recent arrogant put down of Dr Kharrizian, who has published numerous professional papers, post graduate course manuals and teaches neuroscience, neuroanatomy, etc. I have little faith in your powers of discrimination, so will disregard your patronising remarks in future.

totally agree with that polaris - we are not clones, if we were we would all be on the same meds. there is much that science dosnt know, I have had severe intolerable painful night time head pressure,waking me every few hours for 6 years, and throbbing all down my spine, and after a nerve induction test and varies tests, still science hasn't come up with the cause or solution.

fbirder - would love you to read the posts of diogenes on Thyroid UK. He is a research Doc aka as Dr John Midgley - as part of a team - doing his best to bring the inadequacies of the TSH test to attention of the Medical Profession ( please note the capitals !! ) Trying to show respect !

There are posts indicating how he/they have to jump through hoops before their work can be published and in some cases we read diluting the strength of the research. So much for Peer review. It would appear that when research is funded by Big Pharma then the Peer Reviews can also be tainted.

As John Ioannides said in one of his research papers ......

* Claimed Research Findings May Often Be Simply Accurate Measures of The Prevailing Bias * - so it is possible for the good to stuff to get left behind.

This of course is not relevant - perhaps you will say - but hey it is what popped into my mind on reading your posts .......

" All but one (93%) of the Good responders were treated with methylcobalamin, while a significantly high proportion (43%) of Mild responders were using hydroxocobalamin (p<0.03). Moreover, Good responders had on average been treated with injections more frequently (interval 3.8±1.9 days) than Mild responders (interval 5.8±1.7 days). This difference was significant (p<0.03)."

"In summary, Good responders had significantly more often made use of the highly concentrated methylcobalamin preparation, which was used with yet more frequent injections, and in combination with higher daily doses of oral folic acid. Moreover, they were more often on treatment with thyroid hormones. Furthermore, none in this group was using prescribed strong analgesics, while a majority of Mild responders were using such analgesics on a daily basis."

- the sample size was very small in the study - just 38 people so obviously an initial study - would be very hard to draw any hard and fast conclusions from such a small sample but it could point to areas of research - in fact that is the conclusion in the abstract - points to areas where some research would be useful to check exactly what is going on.

It identifies at least 3 factors that may be affecting the results - frequency of injection, type of cobalamin, and use of analgesics which could impact on the results and would certainly make it difficult to draw any conclusions about which were the most significant factors from such a very small sample size.

Personally I would prefer to stick with hydroxo as methyl really does nothing for my neuro-psychiatric problems which are my most significant problem area - but then I'm not just looking at analgesia as an issue either.

Most interesting thing for me was the observations about use of injection v use of oral ... as have a friend with MS who was trialled on B12 years ago but using oral rather than injections - did suggest trying injections but she would have been dealing with a GP who probably wouldn't listen so don't think it came to anything. Also interesting about the frequency of injections - 2 weekly seeming to give the best results.

I found both research papers really interesting and am glad you did. I posted in order that others too could read what's out there, in case they wished to try it. As I've already said, what comes through clearly on the site is that we are all searching and not all the same - we have different responses to different forms of cobalamin, oral and parental.

FB, as usual, has his own prejudices and set off an inappropriate exchange that I'm not willing to continue. I, personally, (and there are others) find it too stressful, so off to take BP medication, walk on the beach and enjoy a glass of wine.....

Hi all ... interesting reading all your responses if not a little heated. Can I interject with a question. I am currently on every other day injections and have been since 29th July. These injections are hydro. Every time I have tried to reduce my neurological symptoms increase. I have felt improvement but am growing increasingly worried that I may have neuro damage. I decided I'd try a patch this week as well as injections. This was methyl in form. My symptoms have increased to the point I have been unsteady on my feet. Has anyone else experienced this? I was wondering if it was the scenarios of my cells being targeted in repair so symptoms worse before they get better. Or is it having some adverse impact ???

You are obviously aware that many people do experience an aggravation of their symptoms as though nerves are coming back to life. It is vital, however, to continue ensuring you have sufficient B12 until no further improvement to prevent any permanent neurological damage.

Sally Pachlok ("Could it be B12?") recommends supplementation as well as injections, and it seems to be a case of finding what works best for you. I personally find Jarrows Methylcobalamin 5000 mcg works well (good reviews on Amazon for neurological symptoms).

The need for quick and correct treatment is emphasised further by the fact that after a year of treatment only 4 % of patients are fully recovered. Fortunately half of the patients have experienced a lot of improvement in their symptoms after a year of treatment but there are still a lot of patients with remaining symptoms, who could possibly have recovered if their treatment was started promptly and adequately."

Here is the latest BMJ research document with information on blood testing after injections have begun, in case GP tries to say you are overdosing !

I don't have neurological symptoms ABijah, although I began supplementing when I noticed my previously good memory starting to fail me, I'm able to keep any further symptoms at bay on at least 5,000 mcg, oral methylcobalamin daily.

My sister (severely B12 deficient for many years before being diagnosed) also supplemented with Jarrows 5000 alongside Hydroxocobalamin injections and found they helped some obvious symptoms, e.g. sore beefy tongue, tinnitus, etc.

Please see article published in 2015 European Journal of Nutrition addressing the need to supplement methylcobalamin. The information is available on wikipedia's article on methylcobalamin, where the citation is given. The journal article is available at Google Scholar. Methylcobalamin probably is the most effective form of B12, but it is incomplete and must be supplemented.