Yes, indeed I am far because I took hold of Yusuf Alis book as early as 1959 and since then have been studying the Qur'an. If you want understand Qur'an you have to read books written on the different explanations on the interpretation of the Qur'an. There are about 48 different subject matter related to interpretation of the Qur'an.Can you buy this book:ISBN: 9781467883931.

"Therefore knowing the Sunna... is more important than reading the Qur'an."

And how exactly do you know this? Is there a Hadeeth to this effect?? Is there a verse in the Quran that said this???

If not, aren't you afraid you may be ascribing words to Allah (SWT) that He never said????]]>
Tue, 27 Nov 2012 23:39:45 +0000http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170796#170796Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. : Friendship,
you are making things...http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170770#170770
Author: honetoSubject: 24317Posted: 27 November 2012 at 12:08pm

Friendship,
you are making things difficult for yourself and trying others to follow you in that. We can elaborate about things but I see you are gone too far.

I understand, there are things in the Quran that are made plain and simple, and yet there are things about which we need explanation and there are those about which only Allah knows.
Allah says in the Quran:
54:17 (Y. Ali) And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to understand and remember: then is there any that will receive admonition?

Things that are basic to our belief are made simple, if you can read or listen, you will understand them as Allah meant for example:
112:1 (Y. Ali) Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
112:2 (Y. Ali) Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
112:3 (Y. Ali) He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
112:4 (Y. Ali) And there is none like unto Him.

Easy to understand the core of that surah, of course you can write books on explaining it, but just those four verses will make sense as well.
Hasan

Nausheen, Caringheart, I don't think Mizra Baig is alluding to zero. What she probably means is "very few" over the past decades. Some of the few include Muhammad Yunus, of course. You will find her article here:

I implore you always to remember the encounter Muhammad Rasulullah had withangel Gabriel and the Ahadith of the holy apostle of the merit of seekingknowledge. If you do not know something that is you have never read what the Sahabas said that does not mean that it is false or cannot be comprehended.This is what the 'Arabs define as understanding:ما دل عليهالفظ من غير محل النطق

Muslims generally do not invest on Islamic education. That is the reason oftheir intolerance, arrogance and impoliteness. How can one know what happenedin a period of 23 years if he has only one book covering that period? That oneis great, for others have never spent a farthing (a cent) on Islamic books.The Qur’an was explained by the living witness during its revelation called theSahabas/Companions of the holy apostle. It is not expected today for one to saysomething about the Qur’an outside their explanation. These explanations are inthe books of Tafsir and history. How many of such books do you possess? I haveoften given you references, but never gave me a single reference.

Let us be civilized like theJewish Rabbis.For example when wediscussed about the veil this is what the Rabbi sent me: The prohibitionagainst removing one's beard is found in the Torah. You can learn about thathere:

And yes, though the Torah was not formally given in the times on Avraham (thatonly happened at Sinai), there is a tradition he kept many parts of itbeforehand... Let me know if this helps.

Yours truly,Rabbi Yisroel Cotlar.

According to the teaching ofMuhammad, I am to keep silent on what they said after reading.

The problem of you and others isyou seem not to have known what is Islam through reading what we received fromthe Sahabas. I gave you references as my source of knowledge. Ideally, you areto compare my source of knowledge with what is in your books of reference. Whenyou referred to Yusuf Ali, I went further than you giving you the referencenumber. Probably you do not have Maududis translation. You have no right todisagree with me on what you have no knowledge. Please let us respect knowledgeand those with it as explained by the holy apostle. If you still do notunderstand Qur’an 2:159, read the Tafsir, Al-Mizan by Allama Tabatba’i Vol.2pp.254-258.

Just tell me your source ofknowledge that the Sahabas and their pupils explained that the Arafat day is onthe 9th. Every hadith must be explained. Why is it there are 6different compilers of hadith literature?

I kept on praising the efforts ofthe management of this forum, for it should be a forum watched by 750 million believersdaily who want to be upright. We must know and act according to the Sunna. Butthe opposite seems to be the case. Know that it is only Allah who will rewardone’s effort for I might have joined this forum to be praised, get support andfame. I am fully aware of the what Muhammad Rasulullah told Ali ibn Abi Talib:It is better for one man to believe from you preaching than to be rewarded withone hundred red camels. Remember that the majority according to the Qur’an willnever believe.

Yes, the Shari'a (of MuhammadRasulullah) was (is) established on the behavior of the Levi clan of theChildren of Israel in Madina and this lasted for a period of six years. Whenthey were moved to Khaybar, the experts on analyzing the reasons behindrevelation noticed that the Shari'a on crime etc seized. Revelation then becamecentered on disbelief and hypocrisy in the last four years. Now analyze therevelation from that period to the last prayer of the holy apostle. You willsee that.

Friendship,
I agree with some of the things you say, but some things you say do not make sense and are in contrast to clear message of the Quran.
For example in the same reply from you that I have addressed before there is another sentence you wrote tha makes me uneasy, you wrote:
"Therefore knowing the Sunna that is how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israel and the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians is more important than reading the Qur'an."
I do not know where you get these ideas from beacuse I have never heard of them before. I understand it is important to know and have good relations with other, but it has to be based on some principles. And for a Muslim what can be a better source of these principles than the Quran and Hadiths with clear distinction that the Quran is the word of God and Hadith is word of man.
What you are suggesting seem absurd and a deviation from what Allah has clearly stated in the Quran that it is a guidance for mankind.
Hasan ]]>
Mon, 26 Nov 2012 13:55:08 +0000http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170713#170713Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. : Originally posted by Abu LorenFirst...http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170686#170686
Author: Ron WebbSubject: 24317Posted: 25 November 2012 at 8:00pm

Originally posted by Abu Loren

First of all who cares what Mirza B thinks? Google the golden age of Islam what the Muslims brought to the Western civilisation.

Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately.

When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

I dont even know who Mirza B is. However this excerpt cannot be dismissed entirely. She has made some good points on self criticism.

Unfortunately, by asking how many of scholars, teachers, scientists, industrialists etc. Islam has given to society, if she alludes to zero, her knowledge on the subject is wanting. But from an excerpt of this size it is hard to make out what exactly she is trying to say.

Greetings Nausheen, I don't think she was insinuating that there were zero but rather that, 'in Muslim religious discourse', one only hears the stories of military leaders rather than the accomplishments of these others.

I don't know who Mirza B. is either but I agree she makes some well stated points.

<font face="Courier New, Courier, mono" size="4">Assalamu alaikum.Wellcome back. Please
forgive me for being very brief. I briefed you how to understand a
verse of the holy Qur'an especially the Madinan verses.A.Y. Ali in
his explanatory note 163 only explained the meaning of the word 'curse'.
In other English texts, Abdul Ala Maududi in his explanatory note 160
explained the verse referring to its Asbab-al-nuzul- that is the reasons

When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

Originally posted by Abu Loren

First of all who cares what Mirza B thinks? Google the golden age of Islam what the Muslims brought to the Western civilisation.

Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately.

I dont even know who Mirza B is. However this excerpt cannot be dismissed entirely. She has made some good points on self criticism.

Unfortunately, by asking how many of scholars, teachers, scientists, industrialists etc. Islam has given to society, if she alludes to zero, her knowledge on the subject is wanting. But from an excerpt of this size it is hard to make out what exactly she is trying to say.

Wellcome back. Please forgive me for being very brief. I briefed you how to understand a verse of the holy Qur'an especially the Madinan verses.A.Y. Ali in his explanatory note 163 only explained the meaning of the word 'curse'. In other English texts, Abdul Ala Maududi in his explanatory note 160 explained the verse referring to its Asbab-al-nuzul- that is the reasons behind its revelation. He concludes: The Muslims are being forewarned that as leaders of the world they should propagate and spread the Guidance (Sharia of Muhammad- his way of life- his actions) which has been given to them (Muhamamd, Sahabas, their pupils and the pupils of the pupils of the Sahabas) and should not keep it back from the common people as the Jewish rabbis and scribes did. Therefore for a mujtahid -one reading the Sunna -he is bound to tell the followers of Muhammad of their mistakes, because our actions -Ibadat- must be similar to that of the holy apostle. But many of us do not like that. They believed that what their Imams say is final while their explanation was incorrect. One of the conditions given for one to make a 'fatwa' (discussions in this forum) is one must have knowledge of what previous scholars say before he can comment on a topic. But look at how we are behaving! With that threat do you expect me not to advise members of this forum to read a particular book drawing our attention to our common mistakes? Where will be my place in the hereafter?In Arabic explanations, you can check the verse in:1. Mawafiqat by Imam Shatibi Vols 1:95; 4:77 and 125.2. Al-i'tisam by Imam Shatibi Vol. 1:202.The rabbis I communicate never deny me knowledge. They give me reference. If they do not know they are not ashamed to say :I do not know. This is the teaching of the Sahabas. The Sunna is we must follow the behavior of the Sahabas. Note that despite the threat of that verse, the Sahabas often did not like to say something on the Sunna for fear of misquoting the holy apostle. Sometimes they say: Take the meaning as in the verse! But, look at me courageous to speak out, yet I am insulted!

<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="3">Assalamu alaika Honeto.I must admit that I find it difficult to explain myself because of the nature of Arabic language. It is difficult to translate. If you try to explain it becomes monotonous to some. Nonetheless, I will not be held responsible for misguiding any one. First of all, recall the encounter of the holy apostle with angel Gabriel. This is explained by him in his hadith: seeking knowledge is obligatory on all believers, even if he were to go to China. No one is exempted therefore. Individuals have their own motives and intentions.There are guidelines set up from the time of Umar ibn Khattab that was consolidated in the 1st century of Hijra on the one to give a Fatwa. The Tabi'un for example stated that the one who does not know Asbab-al-nuzul is not allowed to explain the Qur'an. These were Arabs, yet they set that criteria because the life history of the holy apostle is described. If you take the books on the Tafsir of the Qur'an in Arabic from al-Itqan fi ulum-alqur'an to al-mubahith fi ulum-al-qur'an by for example Luayy you will see that they even demand knowing the time of revelation in winter or summer at night or day.An American Dr. bilal Phillips in item 3 of hois conditions for translating the Qur'an said: The Mufassir must have working knowledge of classical Arabic, its grammatical constructions and its figures of speech because this is the language of the Qur'an. Any Tafseer which is based solely on a translation of some of the meanings of the Qur'an will be liable to distortion. As Mujaahid, stuident of ibn 'Abbas said, "It is not allowable for anyone who believes in Allah and the last day to explain Allah's Book if he is not knowlegeable in the Arabic language." The Mufassir should also know the other Islamic sciences which are connected in one way or another to the Quraan such as, Hadeeth and Fiqh....For example you quote Qur'an 1:159. Its correct Tafsir includes:1. It is an early Madinan verse probably in the third year.2. It was revealed in relation to the stoning of an adultress. In addition to Muadth ibn Jabbal, Sa'eed ibn Muadth, Hrijah bin Zayd3. It has a general application. For example I know that the Arafat is observed wrongly. What will happen to me if I keep silent? Abu Loren has refused to answer my questions and probably you. Why are you concealing the truth?4. You should know the remarks of Abu Huaraira. 5. You should know what the holy apostle told Barra'a ibn Azib during the funeral prayer.6. The explanation given by Imam Shatibi in his book Muwafiqat: Vol. 1 pp.95-104; Vol.4 pp77-78, 125. I hope you have understood me. I am not trying to be arrogant or over assuming. I am just trying to know the truth. I believe that I am on the Right path.Note I always check my understanding with the meaning of the words as given in Lisan 'Arab by Ibn Manzur.I could have been in Florida today for my book signing had it not that my visa to USA was delayed. I may visit Guadalajara in Dec. if I can get visa. I will contact you next time I am in USA probably in March.May Allah bring you back to your family safely.Friendship.

Fiendship,
I am not sure if you addressed my response to your comment. Nor does it reply in any way to the two verses I posted.
Here is one of them again, can you tell me that any translation of the same verse have any different meanings than this:
" 2:159 (Y. Ali) Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,"
Thank my trip to Mexico was wonderful, safe and blessed.

Thank you brother, I and my family are back safe home, Alhumdolillah. Keep us in your prayers.
Jazakallah.
Hasan]]>
Sun, 25 Nov 2012 14:47:06 +0000http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170665#170665Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. : Originally posted by Friendship Assalamu...http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170647#170647
Author: Abu LorenSubject: 24317Posted: 25 November 2012 at 2:17am

Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum. Abu Loren.

The position of prayer is critical. It is the most important pillar of Islam after Kalimat Shahadatyn. You and me cannot do anything to correct the mistakes of at least 750 million on whom prayer is compulsory. This year 3 million believers observed the pilgrimage without knowing what to do. This has been the trend for a long time. I understand your concern and desire to be corrected. I advise we suspend this topic to give others chance to read what the author says generally on the obligatory prayers.There must be a joint action for this an unpardonable crime that must be corrected as pointed out in the conclusion of the author.I agree: Let us forget going to Jerusalem. Let us clear Makka of idols!

The position of prayer is critical. It is the most important pillar of Islam after Kalimat Shahadatyn. You and me cannot do anything to correct the mistakes of at least 750 million on whom prayer is compulsory. This year 3 million believers observed the pilgrimage without knowing what to do. This has been the trend for a long time. I understand your concern and desire to be corrected. I advise we suspend this topic to give others chance to read what the author says generally on the obligatory prayers.There must be a joint action for this an unpardonable crime that must be corrected as pointed out in the conclusion of the author.I agree: Let us forget going to Jerusalem. Let us clear Makka of idols!

Assalamu alaikum. Abu Loren.Then it is better you die as an ignorant believer. Is Qur'an:96 a command to you? Do you think that I am commanding you to read that book? It is Allah. So you will tell Allah that you refused to read or that nobody has ever advised you? Yes, indeed you said that that book is rubbish. What do I stand to gain by forcing you repent and amend?Friendship.

I will ask you once again, according to you when is the Day of Arafat?]]>
Sat, 24 Nov 2012 08:06:56 +0000http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170605#170605Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. : Assalamu alaikum. Abu Loren.Then...http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170602#170602
Author: FriendshipSubject: 24317Posted: 24 November 2012 at 6:51am

Assalamu alaikum. Abu Loren.

Then it is better you die as an ignorant believer. Is Qur'an:96 a command to you? Do you think that I am commanding you to read that book? It is Allah. So you will tell Allah that you refused to read or that nobody has ever advised you? Yes, indeed you said that that book is rubbish. What do I stand to gain by forcing you repent and amend?

I have read the announcement as in the given website. It confirms that Arafat day is not on the 9th day.However this is for the one who knows the manner of Arab expression. Now did you read that book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1468070444/ref=cm_sw_su_dp. There is no contradiction between what the author says and the announcement except that the author understood it based on Arab customs. ًRead Shankiti explanation in:.اضوا ء البيان فى ايضا ح القرءان با القرءان الجزء الثا لث . ص 292- 294

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam

You are still avoiding the question. What is the answer to the question that you posed? We give up, we don't know when the Day of Arafat is. I don't want to read any books thank you very much.

I have read the announcement as in the given website. It confirms that Arafat day is not on the 9th day.However this is for the one who knows the manner of Arab expression. Now did you read that book: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1468070444/ref=cm_sw_su_dp. There is no contradiction between what the author says and the announcement except that the author understood it based on Arab customs. ًRead Shankiti explanation in:.اضوا ء البيان فى ايضا ح القرءان با القرءان الجزء الثا لث . ص 292- 294]]>
Sat, 24 Nov 2012 02:26:05 +0000http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170593#170593Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. : Originally posted by FriendshipAssalamu...http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170549#170549
Author: Abu LorenSubject: 24317Posted: 23 November 2012 at 10:08am

Originally posted by Friendship

Assalamu alaikum.

Abu Loreen said: Why don't you tell us instead keep asking st**id questions? Implication: This means that it is st**id to ask questions on what Muhammad preached. Note that, if Allah had wanted spoon feeding in Islam, angel Gabriel could not have pressed on Muhammad to read. You will be held account for whatever you utter, conceive and act. What will be your response in the hereafter when Allah will ask you: Read your book. You are enough to account on yourself. Just tell the forum that you are ignorant and stop saying on what you do not know about Muhammad. I am against arguing with the People of the Book because that is not part of the teaching of Muhammad. I participate out of respect of the Torah and the New Testament, but it is turned into ridiculing and jesting. You said: We are wrong then we will check against what is available from the Holy Qur'and and the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).Response: But I am asking you to produce your evidence from the Qur'an and the hadith that the 9th of Zulhajj is the day of Arafat. Why not do it? Why should I tell you when the book you are advised to read is rubbish?You are wrong in virtually whatever you are doing, except pronouncing the Shahada.

Friendship.

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam

You seem to have this idea in your head that you are a great Islamic scholar but you don't give any answers. You seem to think that you have discovered the secrets which have been hidden from Islam for 1434 years yet you don't divulge them to those who ask.

I gave you a hadith which pointed to the Prophet (Salallahy Alayhi Wa Sallah) goint to Arafat on the 9th of Dhul Hijjah. All the Islamic web sites which have information about the Hajj state that the Day of Arafat is on the 9th. If you think this is wrong then I ask you once again tell us oh knowledgeable one the answer.

Abu Loreen said: Why don't you tell us instead keep asking st**id questions? Implication: This means that it is st**id to ask questions on what Muhammad preached. Note that, if Allah had wanted spoon feeding in Islam, angel Gabriel could not have pressed on Muhammad to read. You will be held account for whatever you utter, conceive and act. What will be your response in the hereafter when Allah will ask you: Read your book. You are enough to account on yourself. Just tell the forum that you are ignorant and stop saying on what you do not know about Muhammad. I am against arguing with the People of the Book because that is not part of the teaching of Muhammad. I participate out of respect of the Torah and the New Testament, but it is turned into ridiculing and jesting. You said: We are wrong then we will check against what is available from the Holy Qur'and and the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).Response: But I am asking you to produce your evidence from the Qur'an and the hadith that the 9th of Zulhajj is the day of Arafat. Why not do it? Why should I tell you when the book you are advised to read is rubbish?You are wrong in virtually whatever you are doing, except pronouncing the Shahada.

You said: Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunatelyResponse: Who is more deviant than the one who performs an act not performed by Muhammad Rasulullah? You said: You thought the Pilgrims are to wear their Ihram on the 8th and go to Mina on the 9th. Where is the place of 'thinking' called 'ra'ay' in the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah? Have you forgotten this hadith: Who ever attributes something I did not say, let him find his place in hellfire.Go back to school and learn before it is too late! Islam and hence following the Sunna is not by decoration or assumption.

Friendship.

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam

Why don't you tell us the great secret you are hiding? Why don't you share with the the dvine knowledge that you claim to possess? Why don't you tell us instead keep asking st**id questions? If we are wrong then we will check against what is available from the Holy Qur'and and the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam).

You said: Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunatelyResponse: Who is more deviant than the one who performs an act not performed by Muhammad Rasulullah? You said: You thought the Pilgrims are to wear their Ihram on the 8th and go to Mina on the 9th. Where is the place of 'thinking' called 'ra'ay' in the Sunna of Muhammad Rasulullah? Have you forgotten this hadith: Who ever attributes something I did not say, let him find his place in hellfire.Go back to school and learn before it is too late! Islam and hence following the Sunna is not by decoration or assumption.

When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:

"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"

Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

First of all who cares what Mirza B thinks? Google the golden age of Islam what the Muslims brought to the Western civilisation.

Secondly, deviants within Islam will not be tolerated, and there are so many of these unfortunately.

When observing the dialog here, an article from Mirza B. comes to mind. She is a Muslim from India:

"... We Muslims are a people who are the least self critical of all mankind. We love fooling ourselves. We teach our own history in a way that makes us look good and so effectively prevents us from learning anything useful that we can apply today. ... In almost every Muslim religious discourse worldwide, we hear innumerable stories of heroic military leadership of our illustrious predecessors in the remote past. But I ask myself, how many examples do we hear of educators who established universities? Of business leaders who built economies and industries? Of scientists who gave the world new inventions and discoveries? Of rulers who created models of administration and governance that can be emulated today? ... The first sign of a desire to change is to accept that we have a problem. And that we are its authors. The empowering thing about owning the problem is that you also then own the solution. When we export blame as we are habituated to do, we also export the solution and so the problem remains with us and continues to trouble us. We must accept that we are the cause of our internal differences and strife. If we want to build mutual understanding, nothing and nobody can change that. People can try and they will try but they will never succeed if we don't let them. The coming together of the two Germanys and of the two Vietnams are classic examples. You will be astonished to learn about a recently published book on Christian denominations, each with its own church, theological concept, literature, services and priests. The author counted a total of 33,000. Yes, I have not put too many zeros. There are actually 33,000 Christian denominations. But have you ever seen one denomination bombing another's church? Have you seen the followers of one denomination suicide bombing the followers of another denomination? Have you heard any statement from the Pope calling the Church of England infidel? Occasionally you might hear statements like my church is better than yours. Have you heard a statement from the Presbyterians or the Lutherans or anyone else calling the Catholics infidels?"

Muslims who have different interpretations of Islam should treat each other with respect. Only then can they learn to treat followers of other religions with respect which is the basic for peace on Earth.

I must admit that I find it difficult to explain myself because of the nature of Arabic language. It is difficult to translate. If you try to explain it becomes monotonous to some. Nonetheless, I will not be held responsible for misguiding any one. First of all, recall the encounter of the holy apostle with angel Gabriel. This is explained by him in his hadith: seeking knowledge is obligatory on all believers, even if he were to go to China. No one is exempted therefore. Individuals have their own motives and intentions.There are guidelines set up from the time of Umar ibn Khattab that was consolidated in the 1st century of Hijra on the one to give a Fatwa. The Tabi'un for example stated that the one who does not know Asbab-al-nuzul is not allowed to explain the Qur'an. These were Arabs, yet they set that criteria because the life history of the holy apostle is described. If you take the books on the Tafsir of the Qur'an in Arabic from al-Itqan fi ulum-alqur'an to al-mubahith fi ulum-al-qur'an by for example Luayy you will see that they even demand knowing the time of revelation in winter or summer at night or day.An American Dr. bilal Phillips in item 3 of hois conditions for translating the Qur'an said: The Mufassir must have working knowledge of classical Arabic, its grammatical constructions and its figures of speech because this is the language of the Qur'an. Any Tafseer which is based solely on a translation of some of the meanings of the Qur'an will be liable to distortion. As Mujaahid, stuident of ibn 'Abbas said, "It is not allowable for anyone who believes in Allah and the last day to explain Allah's Book if he is not knowlegeable in the Arabic language." The Mufassir should also know the other Islamic sciences which are connected in one way or another to the Quraan such as, Hadeeth and Fiqh....For example you quote Qur'an 1:159. Its correct Tafsir includes:1. It is an early Madinan verse probably in the third year.2. It was revealed in relation to the stoning of an adultress. In addition to Muadth ibn Jabbal, Sa'eed ibn Muadth, Hrijah bin Zayd3. It has a general application. For example I know that the Arafat is observed wrongly. What will happen to me if I keep silent? Abu Loren has refused to answer my questions and probably you. Why are you concealing the truth?4. You should know the remarks of Abu Huaraira. 5. You should know what the holy apostle told Barra'a ibn Azib during the funeral prayer.6. The explanation given by Imam Shatibi in his book Muwafiqat: Vol. 1 pp.95-104; Vol.4 pp77-78, 125. I hope you have understood me. I am not trying to be arrogant or over assuming. I am just trying to know the truth. I believe that I am on the Right path.Note I always check my understanding with the meaning of the words as given in Lisan 'Arab by Ibn Manzur.I could have been in Florida today for my book signing had it not that my visa to USA was delayed. I may visit Guadalajara in Dec. if I can get visa. I will contact you next time I am in USA probably in March.May Allah bring you back to your family safely.Friendship.

Ameen! Have a safe trip and keep us in your dua. Enjoy!]]>
Sun, 18 Nov 2012 12:36:00 +0000http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170304#170304Contrasting Qur'an and Ahadith of Muhammad. : Originally posted by Friendship&lt;font...http://www.IslamiCity.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24317&PID=170300#170300
Author: honetoSubject: 24317Posted: 18 November 2012 at 11:16am

Originally posted by Friendship

<font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size="3">Assalamu alaikum.This forum has been misguided by some of the followers of Muhammad who encourage them to read the Qur'an without specifying that reading the Qur'an is distinct from looking for Guidance. Reading the Qur'an does not qualify one to be a scholar and an educator in Islam meaning submission to Allah. To submit entails obedience. Obedience is due to Allah through Muhammad Rasulullah. Therefore knowing the Sunna that is how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israel and the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians is more important than reading the Qur'an. Reading the Qur'an is subjected to misinterpretation of the physical world because Muhammad Rasulullah did not explain or discuss the physical. Just yesterday, scientist said that they have discovered another galaxy whose light has taken 13.3 billion years to reach us. This discovery may be rejected in times to come. It is challenging for Muhammad did not say so. On the other hand no one will ever challenge Muhammad or find a flaw in his saying. For example he says, the lunar month is 29 or 30 days. He describe the timing of prayers. He says clearly that there will never be peace in the world the moment his commands are not obeyed. He also predicts his followers fighting one another and all of them will be in hell fire. Above all, he says that a time will come when his followers are recognized by only calling to the prayer.If, mankind want peace and fulfillment of their desires and need, the outlet is to understand the way of life of Muhammad- his Shari'a. Ironically, some GOP intellectuals believed that mother 'Nature' played a role in the victory of Barack Obama. Then why not come to a common term with that mother 'Nature'. Is the name synonymous with Allah the G-d of Abraham?Is it then not a reality that the one loved by mother "Nature" will ever remain supreme?Friendship.

Friendship,
I see that you are either mixed up or may be it is a problem of not being able to describe one's self.
I will take each of the sentence you wrote and address it.
You wrote:
1-This forum has been misguided by some of the followers of Muhammad who encourage them to read the Qur'an without specifying that reading the Qur'an is distinct from looking for Guidance.
That statement of yours is wrong based on what the Quran itself says:
2:159 (Y. Ali) Those who conceal the clear (Signs) We have sent down, and the guidance, after We have made it clear for the people in the Book,-on them shall be Allah's curse, and the curse of those entitled to curse,-

Here is another verse addressing the same:
39:23 (Y. Ali) Allah has revealed (from time to time) the most beautiful Message in the form of a book, consistent with itself, (yet) repeating (its teaching in various aspects): the skins of those who fear their Lord tremble thereat; then their skins and their hearts do soften to the celebration of Allah's praises. Such is the guidance of Allah. He guides therewith whom He pleases, but such as Allah leaves to stray, can have none to guide.

There are more, but I believe these two verses are sufficient to prove your very first statement wrong. I want to hear from you first on this one before moving to the second and beyond. I take one thing at a time, it is better that way.
I will be away for a week, as I take a road trip to Mexico and may not be able to go to the forum, so please keep in mind if you do not hear from me for a week.
I ask my brothers and sisters to please Pray to God Almighty for me and my family's safe trip, Inshallah.
Hasan

Allah has certainly guided me. Note that He will never guide anyone who does not understand Islam in its original form. There is no doubt about this. It is obvious that you are a 'Muqalladun' that is those who worship Allah or believe in Muhammad without understanding, proof, evidence scale and weight. You know nothing for you said that Arafat is on the 9th. It is only the Muqalladun that behave like parrots. I have been to a lot of Arab countries including Abu Dhabi and found a lot of immigrants from Asia. I am certain that you are not be a native of Abu Dhabi because Arabs are straight forward people. It is you who will regret and not me. It is a disgrace for a Muslim to say that he does not know fully on the Sunna. You are implying that Muhammad came with something beyond human comprehension, while Allah claims that He has made the Sunna simple for those who want to understand. I know all that I must know to enter paradise. It is disrespect to Muhammad not to know everything on him.Bye bye.Friendship.

Not only do you cliam to know it all but you sure are arrogant with it. You haven't made one valid Islamic comment on this forum.

How can you say Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala has guided you when you worship the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). How many times do I have to say to you that you are a deviant?

I'll give you one bit of advise for free, that is to go and read the Holy Qur'an the Hadiths from the beginning and take note of what they are saying. You are an intelligent person, I believe you are a medical doctor?

Here is an example of the rubbish that you spew out taken from this thread.

"Therefore knowing the Sunna thatis how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israeland the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians ismore important than reading the Qur'an.

Reading the Qur'an is subjected tomisinterpretation of the physical world because Muhammad Rasulullah did notexplain or discuss the physical

Ironically, some GOP intellectuals believed thatmother 'Nature' played a role in the victory of Barack Obama. Then why not cometo a common term with that mother 'Nature'. Is the name synonymous with Allahthe G-d of Abraham?Is it then not a reality that the one loved by mother "Nature" willever remain supreme?"

Allah has certainly guided me. Note that He will never guide anyone who does not understand Islam in its original form. There is no doubt about this. It is obvious that you are a 'Muqalladun' that is those who worship Allah or believe in Muhammad without understanding, proof, evidence scale and weight. You know nothing for you said that Arafat is on the 9th. It is only the Muqalladun that behave like parrots. I have been to a lot of Arab countries including Abu Dhabi and found a lot of immigrants from Asia. I am certain that you are not be a native of Abu Dhabi because Arabs are straight forward people. It is you who will regret and not me. It is a disgrace for a Muslim to say that he does not know fully on the Sunna. You are implying that Muhammad came with something beyond human comprehension, while Allah claims that He has made the Sunna simple for those who want to understand. I know all that I must know to enter paradise. It is disrespect to Muhammad not to know everything on him.Bye bye.Friendship.

You are still dribbling.You are joking to say that you know the Qur'an and the Sunna. You do not know the meaning and the direction. It is impossible to understand the meaning without reading the Arab texts. Reciting the Qur'an and quoting hadith is not understanding. For example you do not understand what is meant by the 9th of Zulhajj. It does not mean the 9th. This is the way you are misleading those who entered Islam. They read without correcting any one on the Sunna.Please take leave from now.

Friendship.

I've never ever claimed to fully know the Holy Qur'an or the Sunnah, I never will. All I'm saying is that you seem to preach something here that is against Islam and you seem to suggest that you know the hidden inner meanings of the Holy Qur'an and Sunnah. To me, you know absolutely nothing. You seem to take books written by nobodies as your guide. I'd say that you a very confused person to put it mildly. May Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala guide you Ameen.

You are still dribbling.You are joking to say that you know the Qur'an and the Sunna. You do not know the meaning and the direction. It is impossible to understand the meaning without reading the Arab texts. Reciting the Qur'an and quoting hadith is not understanding. For example you do not understand what is meant by the 9th of Zulhajj. It does not mean the 9th. This is the way you are misleading those who entered Islam. They read without correcting any one on the Sunna.Please take leave from now.

Please stop fiddling about and answer my questions. There is no difference in understanding the Sunna between you and any Sahaba. You are fond of saying that there are 10 Sahabas Allah promised paradise. What did they do to merit that? If you do what they did you will also enter paradise. so it is important to know their history. That is not in the Qur'an! Look there is no difference between hadith and the history of Muhammad. The first book in Islam is on the history of Muhammad.All I am saying is that for each statement I make ask your scholars in Abu Dhabi. If he disagrees with me then I can tell him the book to read. It is unfortunate that you do not know the difference between the Qur'an and the Sunna. Arabs according to their culture respect equality and demand for it. Since you cannot read Islamic books in Arabic and you do not possess one, please mind your own business and prepare for your meeting with Allah. I know the KAP of you followers of Muhammad.

Friendship.

All the Sahabas followed and obeyed the commands from the Holy Qur'an then they followd and obeyed Rasoolallah (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam). But what you are spewing out in almost all of your posts here has nothing to do with either, hence the reason I called you a deviant. I don't have to ask any scholar to know that what you write here is heresy! Of course I know the difference between the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah, unfortunately it's you who doesn't as you put the Sunnah above the Qur'an.

Please stop fiddling about and answer my questions. There is no difference in understanding the Sunna between you and any Sahaba. You are fond of saying that there are 10 Sahabas Allah promised paradise. What did they do to merit that? If you do what they did you will also enter paradise. so it is important to know their history. That is not in the Qur'an! Look there is no difference between hadith and the history of Muhammad. The first book in Islam is on the history of Muhammad.All I am saying is that for each statement I make ask your scholars in Abu Dhabi. If he disagrees with me then I can tell him the book to read. It is unfortunate that you do not know the difference between the Qur'an and the Sunna. Arabs according to their culture respect equality and demand for it. Since you cannot read Islamic books in Arabic and you do not possess one, please mind your own business and prepare for your meeting with Allah. I know the KAP of you followers of Muhammad.

Thanks very much. But you have not answered an important question if you actually read Islamic books in Arabic. However, your answer reveals that you do not pursue scholarship and that you are the one who relies on being deceived and finally to be disappointed in the Hereafter.In the first place you have displayed your ignorance by not knowing the population of the people of Noah. It has been mentioned. Please ask your scholars in Abu Dabi. This is not an important issue for Allah will not ask you on that. I mean it is not part of the ScaleYou have been accusing me of not been a Muslim while you have proved that you are not a Muslim as you have performed the hajj on a day not performed by Muhammad Rasulullah. The hajj was not performed on the 9th. Please read your books on the history of Muhammad and you will come to understand. Allah will not accept your excuse in the hereafter of failing to know the Sunna of Muhammad.Your double ignorance highlights the hadith of the holy apostle: An Arab is not superior to a non-Arab and vice-versa except by Taqwa.Respect yourself and guard yourself from the hellfire for the holy apostle says: Whoever said something about the Qur'an on his opinion or his ignorance, let him find his place in the hellfire.

Friendship.

Wa Alaikkum As'alaam

If I remember correctly you were saying in another post that the Sunnah of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) takes precedent over the Holy Qur'an which is from Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala. This tells me that you are a deviant Muslim. You also advocate that the future of Islam lies with the Jewish Rabbis. Your guidance seems to be books written by other people, you seem to be awed with the history of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) as written by modern writers than accepting the Hadiths. I may not be a scholar like you but I'm happy to know that if I practice the five pillars of Islam then it gives me a chance of salvation.

Thanks very much. But you have not answered an important question if you actually read Islamic books in Arabic. However, your answer reveals that you do not pursue scholarship and that you are the one who relies on being deceived and finally to be disappointed in the Hereafter.In the first place you have displayed your ignorance by not knowing the population of the people of Noah. It has been mentioned. Please ask your scholars in Abu Dabi. This is not an important issue for Allah will not ask you on that. I mean it is not part of the ScaleYou have been accusing me of not been a Muslim while you have proved that you are not a Muslim as you have performed the hajj on a day not performed by Muhammad Rasulullah. The hajj was not performed on the 9th. Please read your books on the history of Muhammad and you will come to understand. Allah will not accept your excuse in the hereafter of failing to know the Sunna of Muhammad.Your double ignorance highlights the hadith of the holy apostle: An Arab is not superior to a non-Arab and vice-versa except by Taqwa.Respect yourself and guard yourself from the hellfire for the holy apostle says: Whoever said something about the Qur'an on his opinion or his ignorance, let him find his place in the hellfire.

Thanks very much for your answer. Please let me know if you can read Arabic and secondly do you believe that one is not supposed to explain Islam without knowing the life history of Muhammad? Please tell this forum the books you have on his history. Let me ask you this question which is unnecessary: What is the population of the people of Noah?The second question which is essential for you to know is: When was the Arafat day observed by the holy apostle?Loren , you know very well that Muhammad does not allow discussing his way of life with the illiterates. My aim is to explain Islam to those interested in knowing about it, and not like you if you are a Muslim. May Allah forgive me!

Friendship.

I don't know the population of Noah because Allah Subhana Wa Ta'ala in the Holy Qur'an nor the Holy Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) in the Hadiths mention this.

The Day of Arafat was observed on the 9th of Dhul Hijjah.

Ibn ‘Umar said the Apostle of Allaah() proceeded from Mina when he offered the dawn prayer on Yaum Al ‘Arafah (9th of Dhu Al Hijjah) in the morning till he came to ‘Arafah and he descended at Namrah. This is the place where the imam (prayer leader at ‘Arafah) takes his place. When the time of the noon prayer came, the Apostle of Allaah() proceeded earlier and combined the noon and afternoon prayers. He then addressed the people (i.e., recited the sermon) and proceeded. He stationed at a place of stationing in ‘Arafah.

Thanks very much for your answer. Please let me know if you can read Arabic and secondly do you believe that one is not supposed to explain Islam without knowing the life history of Muhammad? Please tell this forum the books you have on his history. Let me ask you this question which is unnecessary: What is the population of the people of Noah? The second question which is essential for you to know is: When was the Arafat day observed by the holy apostle?Loren , you know very well that Muhammad does not allow discussing his way of life with the illiterates. My aim is to explain Islam to those interested in knowing about it, and not like you if you are a Muslim. May Allah forgive me!

You are not the one to judge me. You cannot intimidate me. Remember what Jesus said.

Friendship

I'm not judging you nor intimidating you, all of your posts go against the teachings of Islam. It's like you have your own version of Islam which is not in the Holy Qur'an nor in the Hadiths of the Prophet (Salallahu Alayhi Wasallam).

This forum has been misguided by some of the followers of Muhammad who encourage them to read the Qur'an without specifying that reading the Qur'an is distinct from looking for Guidance. Reading the Qur'an does not qualify one to be a scholar and an educator in Islam meaning submission to Allah. To submit entails obedience. Obedience is due to Allah through Muhammad Rasulullah. Therefore knowing the Sunna that is how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israel and the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians is more important than reading the Qur'an. Reading the Qur'an is subjected to misinterpretation of the physical world because Muhammad Rasulullah did not explain or discuss the physical. Just yesterday, scientist said that they have discovered another galaxy whose light has taken 13.3 billion years to reach us. This discovery may be rejected in times to come. It is challenging for Muhammad did not say so. On the other hand no one will ever challenge Muhammad or find a flaw in his saying. For example he says, the lunar month is 29 or 30 days. He describe the timing of prayers. He says clearly that there will never be peace in the world the moment his commands are not obeyed. He also predicts his followers fighting one another and all of them will be in hell fire. Above all, he says that a time will come when his followers are recognized by only calling to the prayer.If, mankind want peace and fulfillment of their desires and need, the outlet is to understand the way of life of Muhammad- his Shari'a. Ironically, some GOP intellectuals believed that mother 'Nature' played a role in the victory of Barack Obama. Then why not come to a common term with that mother 'Nature'. Is the name synonymous with Allah the G-d of Abraham?Is it then not a reality that the one loved by mother "Nature" will ever remain supreme?

Friendship.

How can you call yourself a Muslim with the rubbish that you spew out?

This forum has been misguided by some of the followers of Muhammad who encourage them to read the Qur'an without specifying that reading the Qur'an is distinct from looking for Guidance. Reading the Qur'an does not qualify one to be a scholar and an educator in Islam meaning submission to Allah. To submit entails obedience. Obedience is due to Allah through Muhammad Rasulullah. Therefore knowing the Sunna that is how Muhammad lived in Madina with the Levi clan of the children of Israel and the neighboring believers in Najran who called themselves Christians is more important than reading the Qur'an. Reading the Qur'an is subjected to misinterpretation of the physical world because Muhammad Rasulullah did not explain or discuss the physical. Just yesterday, scientist said that they have discovered another galaxy whose light has taken 13.3 billion years to reach us. This discovery may be rejected in times to come. It is challenging for Muhammad did not say so. On the other hand no one will ever challenge Muhammad or find a flaw in his saying. For example he says, the lunar month is 29 or 30 days. He describe the timing of prayers. He says clearly that there will never be peace in the world the moment his commands are not obeyed. He also predicts his followers fighting one another and all of them will be in hell fire. Above all, he says that a time will come when his followers are recognized by only calling to the prayer.If, mankind want peace and fulfillment of their desires and need, the outlet is to understand the way of life of Muhammad- his Shari'a. Ironically, some GOP intellectuals believed that mother 'Nature' played a role in the victory of Barack Obama. Then why not come to a common term with that mother 'Nature'. Is the name synonymous with Allah the G-d of Abraham?Is it then not a reality that the one loved by mother "Nature" will ever remain supreme?