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When will the OT saints be resurrected?

When exactly will the resurrection of the OT saints occur?

Some believe it has already occurred and point to Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. 53 And came out of the grave after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many.

Others also believe they are still in the grave but will rise before Christ returns. What are your thoughts?

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

While some of the OT saints were resurrected as mentioned in Matthew 27, it is at the Resurrection/Rapture that all the saints will be resurrected and raptured ( 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). BTW, no saints are "in the grave", and the doctrine of soul-sleep in false. While bodies remain in graves, souls and spirits are with the Lord in Heaven.

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by Trivalee

When exactly will the resurrection of the OT saints occur?

Some believe it has already occurred and point to Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. 53 And came out of the grave after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many.

Others also believe they are still in the grave but will rise before Christ returns. What are your thoughts?

I thought we already covered this in ETC.

Daniel [OT saint] was told, "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest [in death], and stand in thy lot [be resurrectedto stand again on the earth] at the end of the days [at the end of the days referred to in that specific context, Dan12]."

I believe the people who were resurrected (not raptured) in Matthew 27:52-53 (and who 'went into the holy city') are a type or picture of the OT saints and what occurs at the time of their "resurrection". The events are associated with that which is said in Matthew 24:29-31 (which corresponds with Isaiah 27:12-13, where it says [of the living, here, though], 'and ye shall be gathered onebyone, O ye children of Israel. [...] And it shall come to pass in that day that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.' [see also Isaiah 24:21-23--same time frame (which passage corresponds with Rev16:14-16/Rev19:19/Rev20:4-5,6a)--The 'blessed' enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom--aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [involving the 'guests [plural],' the '5 Virgins/Bridesmaids [plural],' the 'attendants/servants [plural]']; aka 'the kingdom of the heavens [on the earth]'--Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 'shall sit down [G347 - that is, as at a meal]' there, present there FOR the earthly MK; The 'Blessed' (either as still living mortals, or as 'resurrected') will enter the MK time period, the kingdom age--'Blessed': Rev19:9; Dan12:12; Matt25:31-34; Luk12:36-37,38,40,42-44; Matt24:44-47, etc...])

"The Church which is His body" is gathered AS ONE [ONE BODY] (by contrast), among other distinctions.
[the passages noted above are not referring to our "episynagōgēs" (2Th2:1) which pertains solely to "the Church which is His body" (our Rapture-1Th4:17, 1Th1:10, 1Cor6:14, Phil3:20-21, 2Cor5:4, 1Cor15:51-53, etc...]

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by Daniel567

While some of the OT saints were resurrected as mentioned in Matthew 27, it is at the Resurrection/Rapture that all the saints will be resurrected and raptured ( 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). BTW, no saints are "in the grave", and the doctrine of soul-sleep in false. While bodies remain in graves, souls and spirits are with the Lord in Heaven.

Do the soul and spirit with the Lord in heaven include those of sinners?

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by TheDivineWatermark

I thought we already covered this in ETC.

Daniel [OT saint] was told, "But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest [in death], and stand in thy lot [be resurrectedto stand again on the earth] at the end of the days [at the end of the days referred to in that specific context, Dan12]."

I believe the people who were resurrected (not raptured) in Matthew 27:52-53 (and who 'went into the holy city') are a type or picture of the OT saints and what occurs at the time of their "resurrection". The events are associated with that which is said in Matthew 24:29-31 (which corresponds with Isaiah 27:12-13, where it says [of the living, here, though], 'and ye shall be gathered onebyone, O ye children of Israel. [...] And it shall come to pass in that day that the great trumpet shall be blown, and they shall come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the Lord in the holy mount at Jerusalem.' [see also Isaiah 24:21-23--same time frame (which passage corresponds with Rev16:14-16/Rev19:19/Rev20:4-5,6a)--The 'blessed' enter the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom--aka "the wedding FEAST/SUPPER" [involving the 'guests [plural],' the '5 Virgins/Bridesmaids [plural],' the 'attendants/servants [plural]']; aka 'the kingdom of the heavens [on the earth]'--Abraham, Isaac and Jacob 'shall sit down [G347 - that is, as at a meal]' there, present there FOR the earthly MK; The 'Blessed' (either as still living mortals, or as 'resurrected') will enter the MK time period, the kingdom age--'Blessed': Rev19:9; Dan12:12; Matt25:31-34; Luk12:36-37,38,40,42-44; Matt24:44-47, etc...])

"The Church which is His body" is gathered AS ONE [ONE BODY] (by contrast), among other distinctions.
[the passages noted above are not referring to our "episynagōgēs" (2Th2:1) which pertains solely to "the Church which is His body" (our Rapture-1Th4:17, 1Th1:10, 1Cor6:14, Phil3:20-21, 2Cor5:4, 1Cor15:51-53, etc...]

Can you throw some light into the order of resurrection then? We are told that the dead in Christ will rise first 1 Thess 4:16 followed by the living in the rapture. Is it safe to argue that the remaining OT saints will thus follow after the living has been raptured?

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by stoomart

1 Corinthians 15 says the righteous dead will be raised at the last trumpet:

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written: “Death is swallowed up in victory.”

Since this is the same time as the Lord's return per Matthew 24, we cannot know the day and hour, only the season of his return can be known from the signs he gave.

How do you make the assumption that its *the same time as the Lords Return*?

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by Trivalee

When exactly will the resurrection of the OT saints occur?

Some believe it has already occurred and point to Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. 53 And came out of the grave after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many.

Others also believe they are still in the grave but will rise before Christ returns. What are your thoughts?

I believe the OT Saints are resurrected from the *Dust* as all passages that speak of Ressurection from *the Dust* speaks of the OT Saints.

E.G

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Ezekiel 37- To long to quote
Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I'm not sure about the timing, I just know they are at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

But from these passages is seems they are raised a little before or after the Second coming of Christ to Earth - not sure

But it does seem like this is the Resurrection of the OT Saints since we know for sure, Isaiah and Daniel will be there.

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by stoomart

Not looking for an argument here, just relaying what the bible says.

Matthew 24:29-31

“Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Revelation 11:15

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, “The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!”

[/QUOTE]

Where do you find mention of a Resurrection in Matthew 24. Or trumpets before the one in the passage you quoted so that it will refer to the Last.?

You not relaying what the bible says(no offence) your relaying an assumption. (That these are the same trumpet)

Why i was curious if you had anything to back up that assumption?

Now your adding an even greater Assumption.

Are you claiming that The Son of Man is the Angel in Rev 11 that blows the 7th trumpet?

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by stoomart

I know you are very passionate about your eschatological view, which I'm not interested in discussing with you, sorry.

I mean thats fine, The topic was Resurrection so i was just asking how you timed it with the second coming of Jesus(with no mention of such from the text Matt 24). If you not interested in discussion though that's fine. was just curious about your views .

Which you claim is what the bible states but you're clearly making huge leaps in reasoning and not doing proper exegesis.

As you try to tie 3 trumpets associated with 3 clearly separate events into one.

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by stoomart

Where did I say I was assuming anything? You don't agree with what I said, judging for yourself that my belief is not scriptural (with is offensive btw), and continued in aggressive responses; this is an attack.

When you say

Originally Posted by stoomart

Since this is the same time as the Lord's return per Matthew 24, we cannot know the day and hour, only the season of his return can be known from the signs he gave.

How do we know its the same time as the Lords return from Matthew 24, thats all i wanted to know, Paul clearly quotes Hosea 13 not Matt 24(which has no mention of a Resurrection).

Your post here clearly assumes a fact ( i was familiar with but you don't want to address)

Once more did not mean to cause a fight was just curious how you made the leap (is all) that Matt 24, 1 Cor 15, and Rev 11 speak of the same trumpet even though the ones we know about specifically (Matt 24 and Rev 11) are blown by different people (the son of man and an Angel), ect...

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by Trivalee

When exactly will the resurrection of the OT saints occur?

Some believe it has already occurred and point to Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened, and many bodies of the saints which slept arose. 53 And came out of the grave after his resurrection and went into the holy city and appeared unto many.

Others also believe they are still in the grave but will rise before Christ returns. What are your thoughts?

It really depends on how we define resurrection. Many have a broad view including the rapture and the regeneration of Israel in Ezekiel 37. In my view, the Biblical definition is more precise. A resurrection is obtaining a permanent new body. This does not happen at the rapture or the regeneration of Israel in Ezekiel 37 and Revelation 14. With that specific definition used in Revelation 20 and by Jesus, the OT saints get resurrected in the 2nd resurrection at the end of the Millennium. This is the time when all saved persons get resurrected except those beheaded during the 1260 days of the beast. Their resurrection comes at the beginning of the Millennium. The rest of us receive new bodies at the 2nd resurrection.

Re: When will the OT saints be resurrected?

Originally Posted by Jesuslovesus

I believe the OT Saints are resurrected from the *Dust* as all passages that speak of Ressurection from *the Dust* speaks of the OT Saints.

E.G

Isaiah 26:19 Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead.
Ezekiel 37- To long to quote
Daniel 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

I'm not sure about the timing, I just know they are at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.

But from these passages is seems they are raised a little before or after the Second coming of Christ to Earth - not sure

But it does seem like this is the Resurrection of the OT Saints since we know for sure, Isaiah and Daniel will be there.

Daniel 12:13

The *dust* is synonymous with the grave - the same place all the dead are buried, whether OT or NT people. Like you, I am also uncertain when their resurrection takes place as scripture didn't emphasize. But we know it's in the end times as Daniel was told:

Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be (end times): for thou shalt rest (die), and stand in thy lot at the end of the days. (Rise/resurrect).

We are trying to see if anyone can nail down when they arise to a 'specific' timeline.