What about Cesar Milan makes people so angry?

I haven't been around in ages. Hello to all those who remember me and those that don't...!

I was watching the Dog Whisperer today. Mostly Cesar was getting people to take charge and act calm around their dogs. Everything seemed to make sense and was common sense (at least to me).

I know Cesar has been discussed here in the past. I know that discussions about Cesar can get pretty heated, but I've forgotten what all the fuss was about. What is it that makes people so angry about Cesar's methods? If you're one of the people that doesn't agree with Cesar's methods, is there anything that you think is valid?

Honestly -- I'm not trying to start a fight. Just want to understand the philosophical differences in training methods.

I have only seen a couple segments with him and not paid that much attention to all thats said about him because honestly most of what he seems to say is exercise your dog more and don't treat it like a baby. that is good advise.

BUT- I watched a segment on the news about a lady that worked at the station and her uncontrollable pitbull. They decided to let it maul a little golden retriever puppy. It was just yelping and it was horrible. He had absolutely no control over the situation and could have got the pup killed.

There is such a things as dogs being other dog aggressive and I do not believe its something that can be worked out of them.

I know what a dog trying to attack looks like. Been through it.

ceaser said something stupid like the big dog was trying to calm the puppy by laying on it and putting its jaws around its neck-

WHAT A FREAKIN IDIOT!!!!!!

I think it was a huge mistake to air it in case someone tries it. I still wonder if he tried to get them to not show the segment. Or if he really thinks the big dog was trying to calm the pup down.

He also seems to set people up for bites to happen. We should set questionable dogs up to succeeded,not fail.

It looks good with him and his pack of dogs moving around but like a coworker of mine who has a lot of unruly large dogs that hate each other says-if you take them out and get them going they forget the other one is there-and she is no dog whisperer!

If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons -James Thurber

I cant stand alot of what he says or does. I have only watched a few, and if I was going to watch a dog trainer, the lady on Animal planet has more knowledge in her pinky then cesar has in his whole damn body.

He seems to think that putting on his skates, and making a dog run til it is tired will solve almost every problem. Which means most of us shouldn't have dogs becuase we dont have time for that.

I am a groomer, and I watched on where a lady was having a hard time with a biting dog. He let the dog bite severly several times, and that showed the dog it couldn't win. HA, Like I am going to let a dog bite me that bad several times so I may not be able to work. Right, that is the most ubsurd thing I have ever seen.

I have found most people who follow him, either don't understand dogs, and think obediance isn't important. It doesn't take a brain surgen to train a dog. Just patience, and common sense.

I am not a Cesar fan. I find his methods not always humane (or even safe for a novice owner) He gives the impression that all behavior problems are the result of failure of the owner to be the pack leader and completely dominate the dog.

Some of what I've seen from him-physical and pyschological intimidation (like overwhelming a dog with the thing it fears) finger jabs, choke collars, extended sessions on a treadmill.

Personally, I prefer a method involving rewards and praise, rather than excessive exercise and intimidation.

Nice to hear from you Shiny and Catlover. My daughter begged me to visit the HS a couple weekends ago to visit dogs. We walked a sweet and pretty GSD. I warned my daughter that this is a prime breed for her dad to be allergic to. He went to visit the GSD the next day and confirmed that, yes, she was sweet, but he became an itchy mess within minutes. Didn't really matter, because my son still says "no way - no how" on getting another dog. *sigh*

Anyway -- I am not actively looking for a dog, but like to keep knowledgeable about training methods, in case the right time (and dog) comes along.

Every training session I have seen oh his shows is based on wearing the dog out then claiming he is the best trainer in the world because he can make a tired dog submit. Every trainer I have ever went to said specifically to not exercise the dogs before coming because you need a dog to listen all the time, not just when they are wore out.

There are many things he does that I dont like, or would find that effective over time, like kicking them from the side, or the "shhh" thing, eventually your dog is gonna ignore it.

I watched that episode with trinity, see the link someone else provided, and thought OMG he is a moron. He basically wanted those people to NEVER allow her to get excited ever again, if they are playing they were not to throw the toy again until she had calmed down, what a sad life it would be if you were never allowed to express your happiness.

I find his methods too simplistic in most cases. A deep-seated problem is not going to just instantly disappear in one training session. The canine mind is not that easily short circuited. This is why we are told to be consistant in our training efforts as a dog will take advantage of any opportunity to revert to what it was doing originally.I think there are people who will be injured because they will try to do on their own what they see him do on television. The thought of trying to control a dog agressive dog while on rollerblades is ludicrious.

What you people are missing on every show it states clearly "do not try this at home". If you watch one dog training show and base your dog training on that show then you are a simple person. If you don't agree with what he does don't watch him. I personally think he is quite a smart guy. What his message is, is exercise your dog and repetition is the main ingredient to help you train your dog. Don't spoil your dog and forgive his bad habits until you are tired of them and then hope it will stop. Nip them in the bud. Take charge and responsiblity for your dog and his actions. Dogs are not furry jewellry. I watch the show and take what I can use from him. He has to being doing something right if he has made a living off working with dogs for 20 years.

back yard breeders have made livings off dogs for twenty years and it certainly doesn't mean its right.

There are a lot of bad trainers out there. I don't think his training methods are that bad-Like I said everyones dogs would be better behaved if exercised and not spoiled. Its his views on being the leader and were he endangers those breeds who are known for same sex or other animal aggression. You can put up a warning but the whole point of the show is "look your dog can be like this" when honestly most of the time it is not safe for the dog to do the things.

It seems to be people who own or are educated about some of the more "difficult" larger breeds are the ones who dislike his show/training/message. For small dog who will not kill another dog or person its not that big of a deal. But I can tell you he has caused bites for people trying to break up a dog fight started because he has it in someones head they can put their dogs back together or put it into any pack and have it behave. This is why our big breeds get a bad name.

If I have any beliefs about immortality, it is that certain dogs I have known will go to heaven, and very, very few persons -James Thurber

I respect the guy. He may not be the best trainer out there, but I've definitely seen worse. I know that he has helped a lot of people live with their dogs in a more peaceful manner. As with anything else, his methods are not going to work for everyone and every dog. Something to keep in mind is that you are seeing a 20 minute segment of something that most likely took weeks of work. While there are some things that I am not going to try with my dogs, as I am not a trained professional, but I've taken bits and pieces here and there, and its worked. One thing I do practice is his manner in walking and insisting that my dogs walk next to or behind me. I feel so much more in control that way and makes for a better experience. But, do I feel I need to walk/run my 10 and 20 lb dogs for 6 hours a day? No! That's crazy! They don't even want to walk around the block sometimes! I haven't seen the show in a couple years, but I'm sure there are things I disagree on. But I have tremendous respect for his dedication to abused, homeless and red flag dogs.

Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there. (Will Rogers)

I wouldn't buy a dog from anyone other than a backyard breeder. I have bought dogs from so called reputable kennels and paid through the nose for so called champion bloodlines and have had nothing but problems with those dogs. I found pedigrees were questionable, health and temperments were poor. They replace the dogs but that doesn't help. Having to train 2 or 3 pups in a row just to get one good dog isn't what I expect when I buy an expensive champion bloodline pup. The backyard breeders I have dealt with usually have 2 or 3 dogs and seem to know their dogs inside and out and really care for them properly. They are more in touch with the animals. They live with the dogs and they are part of their families. The dogs go to the vet regularly. The people have jobs so they aren't counting on puppies as their main source of income so the dogs are actually going to the vet for check ups and getting all the proper shots. Where as reputable kennels keep there dogs in runs and cages and are only socialized at shows or training sessions. These breeders have watched the vet giving the pups shots and figure "I can do that, that will save me a few hundred bucks" and that's when the visits to the vets end and the breeder become the vet and the breeder. They buy the vaccines in bulk and inject the dogs themselves. The more dogs a person owns the less time they can spend with each one and the less they know each dog. These people that own the kennels also say they are breeding to better the breed. I don't believe that for a second. They are breeding to better the income. The more bitches the more litters they can have per year.

garbageguys -- Did you mean to post this on a different thread? This one is/was about Cesar Milan.

I hope you realize that "backyard breeder" is a perjorative term -- it has all kinds of negative connotations that will get people on this discussion board all worked up. I think you will get a better reaction from other posters if you use the term "hobby breeder."

I personnally like cesar. I don't watch him ALL the time, but the shows that I have seen have been really helpful to the owners he is helping. I have noticed that he doesn't attempt to rehabilitate large breeds, at least the shows I have seen he hasn't. I think the largest aggessive dog he attempted to help was a chow mix. I think overall he does help to educate inexperienced owners.

Climberchic, I have seen him work with a Mastiff, Boxers and a Great Dane. His rehab center is full of large breeds. But, I think its easier to have problems with a little dog in that some behaviors are mistaken for "cute" with little dogs, but not acceptable for larger dogs. For example, its easier for me to pet my 10lb Shih Tzu if he jumps up on my legs...that would be a big problem if the dog was 100 lbs, so its discouraged right away.

Even if you are on the right track, you will still get run over if you just sit there. (Will Rogers)

Actually I think what Ceasar does for pets is exactly what a lot of people want them to do. He makes them calm.

Now I think that his understanding of why they are becoming calm are not as he explains, but that's irrevelant. what's revelant that it does seem to work...some of the time.

I also guess that another thing that makes me a bit irked. And I see this with a lot of professional pet dog trainers, not just Ceasar. Is when the training fails, they blame the owner. And they seem to need more Ceasar. It's never the trainers fault. Or a simple obstacle when working with a creature who has it's own mind. To me this is an easy out for failed training. If a dog is trained. It either is or is not. The dog either knows what is expected, the behavior is reiforced through training in a manner to solidfy the behavior in all situations or the behavior is not known or not reiforced sufficently to proof the behavior in all situations. If the dog behaves in certain situations but not others, the dog is not trained. The behavior is still occuring. The dog only knows it's safe to do the behavior in certain context and dangerous in others. It's no more complicated than knowing it's not safe to touch a hot stove, and safe to touch a cool one. Now if I taught you that all stoves were dangerous. You'd not touch any. It's not the stove that matters, It's whats learned about the stove. And to me, If I hire a trainer. The dog best be trained when they are done.

Now will my dog act different with other people. Of course it will. But that's not the other persons fault. That is in my training. I, the trainer has failed to solidfy the training in all situations.

Now, I know Ceasar has that cute saying about rehabing and dogs and training people. And if that's true. What does that say about his people training skills when they do not follow his instruction. As with a dog, either the people are trained or they are not. Somewhere along the line...he has to take some responsability for the failures.

I believe a dog's finest hour, the greatest fulfillment he holds dear, is when he has worked his heart out in a good cause and lies exhausted on the field of battle-with a ball in his mouth."