The loss in prestige, TV ratings and potential sponsorships would be huge if the WNBA does not have a team in New York. It's not about on-court success, it's about perception, sponsors and ratings.

The WNBA is popular and has a high profile, in general, in the cities in which it has franchises. It is essentially invisible outside those cities.

New York and L.A. remain the two most important media and corporate centers in the country, in many ways, and those two franchises bring the attention of the league to the powerbrokers who work there. Leaving Houston, for example, or Sacramento, does not have the same impact as leaving either New York or L.A.

Also, consider TV ratings. Why would fans in NYC, having been abandoned by the Liberty, watch WNBA games on TV? My sense is that the ratings are driven by the cities with franchises (spurned fans are less likely to watch as well), and without NYC, the ratings will likely go down, but definitely won't improve.

And sponsors want a presence in L.A. and New York.

Leaving New York is much, much different than leaving any other city (except L.A.). It would be a serious blow to the WNBA, and conceivably, when the ESPN contract runs out, fatal.

(By the way, the SF arena will not be available to the WNBA until 2020. That's a long time for the league to lose money ...)

Also, consider TV ratings. Why would fans in NYC, having been abandoned by the Liberty, watch WNBA games on TV? My sense is that the ratings are driven by the cities with franchises (spurned fans are less likely to watch as well), and without NYC, the ratings will likely go down, but definitely won't improve.

I agree that TV ratings are impacted by how many markets the league is in. But you are always fighting hard against expansion. It seems like you are happier with a 12 team league than a 13,14 or 16 team league.

Quote:

(By the way, the SF arena will not be available to the WNBA until 2020. That's a long time for the league to lose money ...)

"We are not in a rush to do it because we are focused on our primary business with the Warriors and building an arena [in San Francisco]," Lacob said. "But if the opportunity came along, we would definitely do it."

The loss in prestige, TV ratings and potential sponsorships would be huge if the WNBA does not have a team in New York. It's not about on-court success, it's about perception, sponsors and ratings.

The WNBA is popular and has a high profile, in general, in the cities in which it has franchises. It is essentially invisible outside those cities.

New York and L.A. remain the two most important media and corporate centers in the country, in many ways, and those two franchises bring the attention of the league to the powerbrokers who work there. Leaving Houston, for example, or Sacramento, does not have the same impact as leaving either New York or L.A.

Also, consider TV ratings. Why would fans in NYC, having been abandoned by the Liberty, watch WNBA games on TV? My sense is that the ratings are driven by the cities with franchises (spurned fans are less likely to watch as well), and without NYC, the ratings will likely go down, but definitely won't improve.

And sponsors want a presence in L.A. and New York.

Leaving New York is much, much different than leaving any other city (except L.A.). It would be a serious blow to the WNBA, and conceivably, when the ESPN contract runs out, fatal.

(By the way, the SF arena will not be available to the WNBA until 2020. That's a long time for the league to lose money ...)

Well said. I completely agree.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

Also, consider TV ratings. Why would fans in NYC, having been abandoned by the Liberty, watch WNBA games on TV? My sense is that the ratings are driven by the cities with franchises (spurned fans are less likely to watch as well), and without NYC, the ratings will likely go down, but definitely won't improve.

I agree that TV ratings are impacted by how many markets the league is in. But you are always fighting hard against expansion. It seems like you are happier with a 12 team league than a 13,14 or 16 team league.

There's competing issues, I think. On the one hand, you have the quality of the product, which directly impacts perception, attendance and ratings, and on the other, you have more markets.

My feeling is, to repeat, that there is not enough talent to maintain a quality product -- that is, one that is worth the time to watch on TV and the money to watch in person -- if there is any kind of expansion. Obviously, reasonable people can disagree on this (and we do), but if I am right, expansion would hurt the perception of the league and any chance to improve ratings from non-WNBA cities.

And of course, you need a couple owners willing to lose a couple million dollars, and since James Dolan apparently has no offers for the Liberty, a team with great tradition that draws well in a basketball city, finding those owners might be difficult.

Also, consider TV ratings. Why would fans in NYC, having been abandoned by the Liberty, watch WNBA games on TV? My sense is that the ratings are driven by the cities with franchises (spurned fans are less likely to watch as well), and without NYC, the ratings will likely go down, but definitely won't improve.

I agree that TV ratings are impacted by how many markets the league is in. But you are always fighting hard against expansion. It seems like you are happier with a 12 team league than a 13,14 or 16 team league.

There's competing issues, I think. On the one hand, you have the quality of the product, which directly impacts perception, attendance and ratings, and on the other, you have more markets.

My feeling is, to repeat, that there is not enough talent to maintain a quality product -- that is, one that is worth the time to watch on TV and the money to watch in person -- if there is any kind of expansion. Obviously, reasonable people can disagree on this (and we do), but if I am right, expansion would hurt the perception of the league and any chance to improve ratings from non-WNBA cities.

And of course, you need a couple owners willing to lose a couple million dollars, and since James Dolan apparently has no offers for the Liberty, a team with great tradition that draws well in a basketball city, finding those owners might be difficult.

We can't be sure that he has had no offers. In my view, all we know is that he's had no offers that he's found acceptable thus far.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

The loss in prestige, TV ratings and potential sponsorships would be huge if the WNBA does not have a team in New York. It's not about on-court success, it's about perception, sponsors and ratings.

The WNBA is popular and has a high profile, in general, in the cities in which it has franchises. It is essentially invisible outside those cities.

New York and L.A. remain the two most important media and corporate centers in the country, in many ways, and those two franchises bring the attention of the league to the powerbrokers who work there. Leaving Houston, for example, or Sacramento, does not have the same impact as leaving either New York or L.A.

Also, consider TV ratings. Why would fans in NYC, having been abandoned by the Liberty, watch WNBA games on TV? My sense is that the ratings are driven by the cities with franchises (spurned fans are less likely to watch as well), and without NYC, the ratings will likely go down, but definitely won't improve.

And sponsors want a presence in L.A. and New York.

Leaving New York is much, much different than leaving any other city (except L.A.). It would be a serious blow to the WNBA, and conceivably, when the ESPN contract runs out, fatal.

(By the way, the SF arena will not be available to the WNBA until 2020. That's a long time for the league to lose money ...)

Well said. I completely agree.

I agree to an extent , most viewers for the WNBA were not even in WNBA cities .

Agree. She doesn't even have to be the majority owner of a group. She could just be a part-owner with a minority percentage of the franchise business. Example: Magic Johnson and the Sparks LA Sports group of which Magic Johnson is a part of. Another example is former Destiny's Child member Michelle Williams, who owns a minority stake in the Chicago Sky.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

Ok, then how about Montreal?

_________________The fault...lies not not in our stars but in ourselves that we are losers.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

Ugly and hugely exaggerated.

_________________Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

I believe most players live in Westchester. Past players have lived in NJ and Queens. Somehow, they all survived the commute.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

What would WNBA players not like about Canada?

Players didn’t want to play in Tulsa, and the big stars still don’t like playing in Connecticut for the most part. Why would they want to play in Canada during the summers? Overseas in the winter, Canada in the summer. Far away from their families ALL year around. big time NBA players don’t want to play in Toronto, and leave when they can. The wnba players want to play in their own country in the summer. It won’t work.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

Not true. I was in Canada earlier this year and the games followed the US NBA TV schedule exactly.
I don't know how much WNBA interest there is in Canada, but I don't imagine the players would have too many problems being based there. Canada is lovely, and the more likely locations, like Toronto, Vancouver, Montreal are not far at all from the USA. Arguably closer than Tulsa is [/Liz]

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

I think the Nassau Coliseum is a good relative idea and only if we are trying to keep the team in or very near NYC. It seems to me that it's economically infeasible to have a profitable WPBB team playing at MSG or Barclay if you are not the owner of those arenas, and maybe not even if you are. Therefore, I think the Nassau Coliseum, for the NYC area, may be relatively more economically feasible. (I agree that no one wants to go to Newark . . . for any reason.)

If one assumes this lack of NYC economic feasibility is true, then I actually think the Liberty would be better off going to another and less expensive city altogether. I don't know where that would be and have no preference myself, but it seems to me there are many possibilities.

WPBB has never been and never will be more than a niche sport. It will be reasonably popular in locations that have strong and entertaining teams, such as in Minneapolis now, but the popularity will drop fast when the team inevitably becomes average or worse.

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

A player could probably live decently in Canada if paid in American dollars.

I don't see how players making near rookie salaries in the WNBA could possibly even afford housing near MSG. You either have to live far, far away in NJ, Long Island or an outer borough, or live in a sleazy one room dump in Manhattan, perhaps shared with 10 illegal aliens.

So just out out of curiosity - how many of the Liberty fans here are season ticket holders and have renewed already for next season?

I did under the false pretense they would still be playing at MSG! Dolan didnt come up with this the morning of the meeting. He knew this for a while! And when you renewed for the 15% off, they auto enrolled you in the new program of auto-renew for 2019 season. We can un-enroll in April.

A team in Toronto would never work. The WNBA has very VERY little exposure in Canada. There is no ESPN in Canada. And NBAtv Canada doesn’t show much WNBA games compared to the US NBAtv. Plus, there would never be any roster stability in Toronto as NO one is going to want to play in Canada aside from maybe the couple Canadian players in the league. The team would never be successful. Any top players they do get, will bail / force trades the first chance they get.

What would WNBA players not like about Canada?

Players didn’t want to play in Tulsa, and the big stars still don’t like playing in Connecticut for the most part. Why would they want to play in Canada during the summers? Overseas in the winter, Canada in the summer. Far away from their families ALL year around. big time NBA players don’t want to play in Toronto, and leave when they can. The wnba players want to play in their own country in the summer. It won’t work.

It doesn't matter if a player is playing in New York City or Montreal, if their family lives in Denver, they are far away and aren't going to see them during the WNBA season.

The real question is what is going on at MSG and why did the company choose now to sell, the source said. The value of the Liberty, the source said, was marginal to the company's bottom line.

Quote:

According to David Miller of Loop Capital Markets LLC, the Liberty had negative free cash flow of $23 million in 2017 and are on pace to lose about $41 million in 2018. The firm attributed an asset value of negative $414 million to the franchise, or 18 times its cash flow.