Hard Choices Abound In Toshin Toshi

Toshin Toshi is out January 30th in Japan, so Imageepoch are sharing more details on the Nintendo 3DS RPG. During the course of the game, you’ll have to plumb the depths of hell to advance, Imageepoch say. Along the way, you’ll have to fight off angels sent to protect man from entering such a dangerous place as you seek to gain entrance.

One called Label Case, though, offers you a proposition should you defeat her: As main protagonist Seed (whose on-name-play should not escape notice to the astute) you’re given the choice to consume her special skill or turn the request down.

Choose to accept and you’ll get a new skill to use in battle, but turning it down also has its benefits, granting you several level ups and a host of high-end equipment. Choices, choices.

Some of the other ladies you’ll meet include Pullma, a magical witch who managed to pull a fast one at the registration counter as both participant and partner. You might remember that in the tournament of Toshin, contestants have to sign up with both themselves and a lady partner. Pullma manages to escape that. She’s an amnesiac, though, with her only memory being that she has to participate in the games. So she does.

Another is Japanese princess Shizuka, who’s the partner for samurai dude Gaji. They’re both madly in love with each other, and eloped as Gaji had no hope otherwise of marrying her. But you’ll take her out on a date anyway, in order to win her affections and earn her special skill. Despite being in love with your true love Hazuki.

You’ll also therefore have to deal with Suzuya, the kunoichi sent after the pair. Contrary to her looks and training, she apparently is rather erm… rather clueless.

Toshin Toshi is set to be published for the Nintendo 3DS January 30th.

Is this secretly an adult visual novel? Little chance for it to head west it would get eaten up by the media

TheExile285

HUSH YOU NON BELIEVER!!!

Lynx

Based on one, actually.

One which wasn’t all that great to be honest.

Lalum

Based on one, but this is on the 3DS so it’s just borderline.

andref

That is a bit more than borderline judging by some of the shots

ecoutercavalier

We’ve had some pretty lewd stuff get localized on 3DS. Don’t count it out based on the sexual content.

andref

What exactly has been localized on the 3ds that has sexual content besides Conception II (though I consider it sexual-lite like fire emblem) ?

ecoutercavalier

Senran Kagura Burst, and.. uh.. um…

andref

Well I wasn’t paying too much attention to that one but I forgot about that one, since they strip when characters lose…..
Still my doubt on its potential release is primarily based on the very last photo which just looks way too erotic to be allowed entry into the states

Lalum

If it’s showing everything but sex then it’s borderline.

harmonyworld

pander more pls

Brimfyre

Have fun letting those other girls tease you while your rival is banging your girlfriend.

Tom_Phoenix

The more I read about this Seed guy, the more he comes off as an asshole. So he joins the tournament to win the hand of his “true love”, but then proceeds to cheat on her with every girl he meets?

Frankly, if there was any justice in this game, it would end with Hazuki shoving a giant sword through this guy’s abdomen.

D H

Unfortunately, the NTR genre has been growing with alarming gains in practically every genre in Japan. It’s hard as hell to find something with any kind of adult nature, whether implied or full-blown adults only, that doesn’t feature it at this point. It’s pretty much the same things as vampire and zombies in the west, it’s just everywhere and finding something enjoyable that doesn’t contain it is like the proverbial needle in a haystack…

No. Western men are incapable of cheating. We are paragons of loyalty and virtue.

XiaomuArisu

Hahahahahaaaa
Tell that my co-worker who has 4 phones for his 4Girlfriends. Virtue my ass

PreyMantis

Sarcasm failed…

Just Tim

…only if they’re in the position to do so (read: rich and handsome), which is the number one demand of the western woman in real life.

Between western men and women, who marries down more, let alone regularly? Not the western woman.

Personally, I met and still know women that cuckold in real life. In real life too, they can cheat, make false accusations, instigate divorces, and are guaranteed to win in divorce court with the western man’s financial ruin.

http://simplephilistine.wordpress.com/ Arla

What an awful fucking comparison. NTR in Japan is like vampires and zombies in the west? Wow.

Brimfyre

As a NTR fan I assure you NTR isn’t nearly as prevalent as you think it is. Just because you notice it in one or two more games than usual doesn’t mean it is taking over like zombies. For the most part people miscategorize what it is or what they think it is. There is such an NTRphobia going on right now, it is laughable. People act like NTR is as bad as Guro.

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

Wait what? You’re a fan of infidelity and cuckolding?

Shippoyasha

To be fair, infidelity is a major part of romance dramas regardless of whether one can even properly call something NTR or not. It comes with the territory. One usually needs to brace for some of that in romance dramas.

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

I dont watch those to begin with.

Shippoyasha

Well there you go. Heh

I guess that’s why many romance stories are rom coms. If NTR isn’t something palatable, there are genres where there is less of a threat of two timing.

Brimfyre

In fiction, especially anime style fiction I am.

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

You scare me.

kardonius

Well, for some people it is as bad, or worse than guro. It depends on what they personally like or can tolerate.

Brimfyre

Well I assure you there are still way more works where a man gets to force a woman into sex. So don’t worry.

Anonymous917

Just take it as you’re not the intended audience and move on. I used to get mad at the very existence of NTR and the self-righteous mentality its fanbase has (look at the downvotes some of these posts got) but now I just shrug, feel a little disappointed that a cutely designed character is being used in something like that, and move on. Don’t pick fights; it’s like arguing against someone’s taste in food.

It’s actually easier to find “Vanilla” in the adult genre that is pretty much the polar opposite of NTR, though. Thankfully.

D H

Mm, if it were that simple. I’m obviously not trying to tell people not to like it or that its a horrible thing, it’s just my opinion that I don’t like even the very basic idea behind it. Sadly, though, moving on is proving to become more and more difficult almost daily, as it’s abundance if everything vaguely adult-related is becoming, as I said, alarming to me. It’s a lot like the amnesia thing brought up in this very post as well, it’s wide-spread prevalence makes it nearly impossible to get around. It’s like trying to go to an imageboard and not find anything Toho related; it’s just virtually impossible.

I wasn’t trying to pick a fight, as, like I said, I don’t mind if other people enjoy it, I was just bringing up the seemingly overwhelming substance of the genre, is all. Although, I must look at completely different things than you do, or just like different art styles, because for my preferences, I certainly don’t find “Vanilla” easier to find.

kylehyde

Well is based on a Hentai Visual Novel, so even if the “hero’s heart” belongs to his childhood friend, his body belongs to everyone else, at least this his how the “love” works on hentai, don’t ask my why I know but maybe you don’t need to.

P.s. is saturday night and I’m boring, I don’t want to troll you or something like that, if I did, my apologize, if I make you smile then it will worth it.

sorenman2

Meanwhile his love interest is with other men.

revenent hell

I feel torn about this game.

*IF* it got localized I would be facing a real dilemma…
I overall like mostly everything I have seen or heard of the game up to now but I can not lie I get kind of moral when it comes to games like this when it has a pre set ” I love this person and will win this tournament to get her hand in marriage” and then it has you *date* and *learn* skills from other women……….

I know its just a game and all but Ive never really cared for it when something like a movie, book or whatever used the premise of ” I love you but I am cheating on you (yes dating another woman to me is cheating I wont even mention the *learning of skills*) so I can marry you!” Its so just……horrible morally, unbelievable ( cheating ALWAYS gets excused as long as the person still loves the one they are cheating on and is doing it to marry them), and overall just in bad taste to me.

This also was why I didn’t pre order or plan to play Conception II when its released. I know its all fantasy and not real blah, blah , blah but morally having children all over the place, even if there is actually no hanky panky involved, with multiple females is just wrong to me. Sadly I really wanted the game initially to but I kind of figured it would be pretty hard to stick with one female because the offspring would be the same type and I do believe for most games a variety of character types is necessary.

ecoutercavalier

I’m with you on wanting to be monogamous in these types of games.The more play styles a game is opened up to, the better.

That being said, it’s a work of fiction. If the gameplay interests you, you shouldn’t let your morals get in the way of something that isn’t real. I don’t want to kill anyone, but that doesn’t keep me from playing games where characters murder each other. I guess it just depends on what made you interested in the first place.

revenent hell

I do get that the games are works of fiction and maybe im a hypocrite because I can sure play a ho ho ho in a LOT of games but for some reason I just find the morality issue worse for me for these two games.
Granted a lot can be considered worse in games such as killing things but in real life monogamy and children are things I have high values on so the games just innately rub said values in a ubber wrong way.
Though I have to admit I kind of want to play the original game…. It sounded fun when I was reading about it.

Shippoyasha

I think your view is understandable, but I feel one has to have a correct mindset about these kinds of games to enjoy them to begin with. Which is why they should have appropriate age ratings and those who are easily influenced by these kinds of games shouldn’t be playing it to begin with. Fans of fanservicey (pardon the pun) games know what they’re getting, you know? Just pure wish fulfillment and pure fantasy. Which is fine, as long as you know what you’re getting and know how to properly separate the like of fiction with that of real life morals and standards you may otherwise hold. Not to mention a huge draw of some of these games is just how you can get away with all sorts of crazy relationship angles that would be very dangerous (relationshipwise) in the real world. The riskiness itself is the draw for some people.

Foryth

Protagonists from Alicesoft games aren’t really known for their moral commendability, you just have to remember you’re not actualy playing your own role.

Much like how the Rance games seem to be mostly about rape, you just have to stop paying attention to the story at some point if you want to indulge into these kind of games.(Which are very clear on what they aim to accomplish, fanservice.)

Locklear93

Time for me to be cantankerous and get downvoted.

From this: “She’s an amnesiac…”
From a recent article on Bravely Default: “And then, Ringabel joined the party. I already knew somewhat what to expect from the character, I knew he was an amnesiac…”
From an early article on Demon Gaze: “Demon Gaze follows an amnesiac…”
From an article on Ar NoSurge: “players spent time “diving” into the amnesiac Ion’s mind…”
From an article on Exstetra: “an interesting premise where the amnesiac hero…”
From an article on Etrian Odyssey: Millenium Maiden: “the protagonist will meet multiple companions along the way, including Frederica Irving, an amnesiac”
From an article on Ys: Memories of Celceta: “Ys: Memories of Celceta begins with an amnesiac…”

There are good games in here, but holy CRAP do I ever wish JRPG developers would take a nice, long break from leaning on amnesia as a plot element. The only game I’ve ever seen that put effort into making the amnesia interesting was Lost Odyssey. Otherwise it’s just been a convenient way of making a character “special,” or worse, of letting developers ignore a character’s backstory until they want it. At this point, I don’t even care if the amnesia is written well; I hear the word and immediately roll my eyes.

revenent hell

I think its an RPG/JRPG staple by now.

Its almost funny how refreshing it is to play any rpg type game and have a cast where there is no amnesiac involved.
Don’t get me wrong the amnesia thing has and does play out well in a lot of games but its so cliché by now I do think most would prefer to have characters who don’t rely on that to keep information within the game “mysterious”.

Overall I just think its easier on the “story teller” to make characters amnesiacs instead of putting in more effort to make things shocking or a surprise. later on in the game. Its become an easy out for them I think.

Things can be known about characters and still have surprises down the road in the game

Locklear93

Easier on the storyteller is a big part of it, yes. They can ignore the consequences of a character’s past right up until they need them, and then PLOT TWIST! It also allows for some contrived drama by having the old life be at odds with the new, etc.

revenent hell

Exactly!

But if they did it by another method that would involve more effort on the writers part and we simply cant have that now can we?

Actually I think a long time ago I actively tried to ignore the amnesiac bit in games since its so common there’s no point in being tired of it since they obviously aren’t going to stop doing it anytime soon.

I just wish they would take a break from it at a minimum…. Maybe make it every other game with a memory loss victim or something. One can hope at least.

Locklear93

My trick is just to limit consumption. On my earlier list, I’ve got Ys. I MIGHT get Demon Gaze, verdict is still out. The rest are just out of the question, because I’ve had enough. I don’t automatically exclude games involving an amnesiac, but I either have to like almost everything else about them, or I have to be convinced they’re writing to make the amnesia a REAL plot element, and more than just a contrivance for the sake of convenience.

revenent hell

Thinking about it pretty much all of the games I have played/am playing have a character lacking memories somewhere in it.

I honestly can only think of a handful of games where no character suffers this malady.

D H

Yeah, it’s not just JRPGS… KOTOR 1 & 2, I’m pretty sure Oblivion had something about mentioned you don’t remember why you were in jail, and some others I remember vaguely but can’t think of off hand. I’m sure it permeates in other genres as well, but it’s not really something you can just write off as a Japanese thing…

Locklear93

I don’t recall ever saying no other source does it. And sure, it’s not exclusive to Japan. It IS however absolutely incessant in recent JRPGs. Actually, recent Japanese game plots in general. Kisuke in Muramasa has no memory at first, and if I recall correctly (could be wrong, I didn’t pay much attention to Killer is Dead), Mondo from KiD was also amnesiac.

D H

Mmm, I’m not denying that it is, by any means. I’m just wanting to state its overuse by all developers, worldwide, and in all genres. A few more examples, Amnesia: Dark Descent, Kingdom of Amalur, and even Skullgirls of all things. Depending on your point of view and/or what I could find, you could even count the upcoming Witcher 3, since Geralt is s’posed to be amnesiac at the first game (I don’t know if he even remembered anything, as it’s not a game I’ve played).

DesmaX

You could say it’s a easy way of introducing the game world to the player (Since the characters have to spell how the world works for you), so it end up being a favorite of… “less talented” writers

http://simplephilistine.wordpress.com/ Arla

It’s not a recent trend. It’s been going on for decades.

Landale

Maybe so, but it was never really all that common. Amnesia is honestly in the same boat as angsty teen leaders; It wasn’t really a common thing until it got parodied.

M’iau M’iaut

Yup. I can’t really think of a lot of RPGs even through the PS1 era which used that crutch. I’d suspect it was brought over from the VN side of things, where it could be used to allow MCs to screw their blood relations and such.

Landale

I kind of feel like Final Fantasy 7 and 8 are to blame. After that it was like angsty amnesiacs just started popping up all over the place, slowly at first but still that’s when it seemed to pick up, and if they weren’t amnesiac they’d just be put into a situation where everyone just assumes they’re an amnesiac because that’s somehow less crazy… Like in 10, which seemed to open up the whole completely erratic clothing style stereotype.

LegoBaka

Mmm… But FF7 wasn’t really amnesia, it was actual psychosis. He really thought he was someone else, and embraced his own delusions until he was forced out of them. FF8 is a good example though, especially with how TERRIBLE that reveal eventually turned out. But no, amnesia plagued the genre long before the jump to disc media, being a staple of games like Shining Force 2, Lufia, and every Breath of Fire save the 5th one.

Hmm… Come to think of it, even FF6 started with an amnesiac Terra.

M’iau M’iaut

BoF was never so much amnesia as a multiverse thing, however.

Landale

Memory loss is memory loss. Replace them with lies, lose them for power, lose them to a blow to the head, lose them because reasons. All still amnesia.
And I never said that amnesia didn’t happen prior, I simply stated that they started showing up with greater frequency after they were being dealt with unusually.

Shippoyasha

To be fair for FF7, they handled it pretty well because loss of memory was an EXTREMELY important element of the story. Sephiroth/Jenova/Planet’s memories, Aeris’s vague memories of her mother, Zack/Cloud’s memory loss/replacement due to heinous experimentations and the various psychological trauma a lot of the core cast has experienced.

I wouldn’t blame the game for other creators being lazy about it. If you are going to do a story about losing memories, you may as well make it extremely important and central to the plot like FF7′s did.

Haganeren

Indeed, in the case of Cloud, it’s more mythomania. He is himself convinced by his lies…. And i think a hero which suffer from mythomania is quite original myself.

MrSirFeatherFang

Screw blood relations… without knowing… Oedipus?

M’iau M’iaut

Hey that mom was hot and was a Queen. Any one would have screwed her. And then dealt with the eight legged freak offspring.

JohnNiles

Even Phoenix Wright pulled this stunt (for a single case).

It’s lazy writing. And yes, when you point this out, people get pissy, as if we should settle for soap opera-level plots. I have been complaining about this for ages.

If the goal is to generate sympathy for the character when the memories are restored, it’s cheap. If the goal is to introduce the setting slowly, it’s cheap. If the goal is to hide a plot twist, it’s cheap.

M’iau M’iaut

Yup, the issue is that it gets used so poorly. Not as a means to build the character involved, but rather as a damn plot device to hide what should be known to the reader.

At least let the reader know what is going on, or don’t draw the garbage out forever.

Locklear93

Exactly, which is why I called out Lost Odyssey as an exception. It may not have been perfect, but Kain’s recovery of memories wasn’t just “oh and then everything makes sense,” it was used to include bits of the past the player wouldn’t normally have seen, in a way that showed both the blessings and curses of the character’s immortality. It was done in a way that revealed the character more thoroughly than most JRPG heroes I can recall, and not an instant “Ding! Plot is now going this way!” kind of thing.

Romancer Ecclesia

amnesia as a plot setting is okay, but execution is hard especially since it’s very liable to criticism as there has been a lot of bad apples for the trope.

NeptuniasBeard

I think the Phoenix Wright example doesn’t really count. It was written because there was no justifiable reason for him to need a refresher, but they still needed to have a tutorial for possible new comers. And in the end, it never really meant anything, he got it back by the time Maya showed up. Amnesia written as a main feature of a character IS lazy, but most of us already knew who Phoenix was going into it.

JohnNiles

I concede that it does not count, for a specific reason: it was not advertised in the initial premise. The other games handled it much better, by passing off the tutorial case to a rookie.

When I woke up this morning, I slapped my forehead and realized that it has come up multiple times in the series, but somehow I missed it. Could I have… amnesia? In a series where inaccurate recollection is a core tenet, it was a natural idea.

For the character I’m thinking of, it was cleverly disguised and handled well. If it had been announced from the beginning of the game, it would have completely ruined it.

Shippoyasha

It may be a cheap device, but every type of cliche contrivance can be sympathetic as long as the story is told well. The thing with many games, even JRPGs is that the story really isn’t the biggest, central point. Story is often just a premise, hence a lot of amnesia elements aren’t always fleshed out properly or at all.

But when they do tackle the issue head on, it can be pretty convincing and properly emotional. Some anime can do it well in a dramatic way considering characters may have experienced emotional or physical trauma and hence blocking out the past and they deal with the issue as the story goes on in a believable, sympathetic way. Or in games, sometimes there’s supernatural elements that help explain why the characters are amnesic (even though the supernatural explanation may come across as cheap).

I do agree it’s best if they don’t use the trick too much, but it just may seem more egregious when games do it because not all games, even RPGs always do the best job with solving it or dealing with it convincingly. Funny enough, amnesia in game plot works best when it’s a central theme of the protagonist or it being one of the central themes of the plot. But oftentimes, the characters may not even get that much attention if the game’s overall premise is central to something else (like gameplay, its story hook, etc).

JohnNiles

I think you’ve got things completely turned around. Story, in conjunction with characterization, is absolutely critical to the JRPG. It is what justifies playing the game. Criticism of JRPGs tends to focus instead on gameplay and graphics, which can be sacrificed for the other elements; thus you see complaints like “It’s turn-based, I hate it” and “It looks like a last-gen game”.

Amnesia is not there for flavor purposes; it is a Chekhov’s gun, and it must be resolved or it falls flat. If the resolution is bad enough, it practically goes back in time and sabotages the initial premise.

If you say it can be there for purposes other than story, as you do in your last paragraph, then the developer is too lazy to write a real backstory for the character.

Amnesia is convenient and a crutch: a proxy for the player, a recipient for exposition, a target for sympathy, a potential source of drama. It should only be used in moderation.

Amnesia is not bad when one developer does it; it is bad when all of them do it. Amnesia has been done often enough and badly enough that it colors
the perception of upcoming games. “You can’t judge the game!” people shout. “You haven’t even played it yet!” But I do judge, because when you put it in your premise, you are starting behind the 8-ball. You are paying for the mistakes of those who have gone before you.

Locklear93

At the risk of going slightly off topic (I’ve already agreed with your sentiments above), bonus points for referring to Chekhov’s gun. It’s a valuable literary principle that more game developers, of any nationality and genre, would do well to take into consideration.

Shippoyasha

Yeah but JRPGs are never solely and singularly about the plot all the time. A lot of gamers tend to gloss over the gameplay side of the equation especially when there are elements beyond the story driving the game. There are many JRPGs that is heavily focused on combat such as Tales and Star Ocean and even plot heavy games like Suikoden was very army/base building heavy and a lot of games like the one in this topic is more about the sexy girls and skill building than the most plausible story. Not to mention many JRPGs aren’t always the most ambitious projects nowadays since we see a lot of games from small time developers. To their defense, they likely can’t even afford top writers or allow a game to not be released just because they use some cliches. They usually have to bet on making other elements of a game entertaining.

And not sure it’s fair to say the premise itself is bad and that any game using it needs to be castigated for it. Absolutely every game deserves their chance to tell a story even if they use the cliche a lot in the industry. I do agree cliches should not be abused so much and stories done lazily and I prefer it if games in general all take more risks with storytelling but there are a lot of circumstances as to why they may play it safely even in a JRPG genre where people do expect more plot centrism.

JohnNiles

Every game does get a chance to tell a story: at the initial pitch to the buyer, whether that be an ad, a blurb on the back of the box, or a demo. Before, during, and after release, every game is fair game for criticism, based on what information is available.

I play JRPGs almost exclusively, mostly on handhelds, and often by small developers, so I am familiar with their limitations. But I don’t overlook their weaknesses to focus exclusively on their strengths. I think we should be allowed to say what we like and don’t like. I don’t roll over for excuses because there is always another excuse on the way.

Pinwheel

To be fair, Phoenix Wright’s case that did that didn’t really have a plot-relevant purpose for it. They just used it to reintroduce all of the characters at the beginning of the game as if you just hopped into the series.

Andar

To be fair, of the games you mentioned, Ys: Celceta uses it to pretty good effect as well. It’s used as a plot point more than the initial unreveal, and like Lost Odyssey, it also shows glimpses into Adol’s past which have never been seen in the 10+ prior (chronological by release) games in the Ys series.

Locklear93

Which is why of the games I mentioned, it’s the one I own. :) I’ve gotten far enough for a few of the memories, but I’m not as impressed by them as I was Lost Odyssey’s. That said, I put it on the back burner fairly quickly, so they may be more impressive further in.

Haganeren

Well, yeah the story of Ys : Memory of Celceta isn’t even at the foot of Lost Odyssey, that’s for sure.

But well, it’s not often a hero that you KNOW become amnesiac. “We” know Adol since 1987 and it’s the first time he is amnesiac so it’s still a curious way to introduce the concept in my opinion.

It would be like, i don’t know, a Mario game where Mario is amnesiac and don’t remember anything about the Mushroom Kingdom and his possibility. It’s an interesting premise I think. (Ok, more for RPG games than plateformer…)

NeptuniasBeard

Funny, out of all the JRPGs I’ve played over the past year or so, not ONE used the amnesia trope. I kinda forgot it was a thing. Crazy that so many of them coming out are doing it.

icecoffemix

Hmm what? Ys pulled it off quite fine.

Hound

It’s really odd that it’s being done with side characters, I always associated “amnesia” and “arriving from another land/world/dimension/group” to be solely associated with the protagonist. Usually, this was the lazy way out for writers that wanted an excuse to force-feed you information.

Tidus from FFX PRETENDED to be an amnesiac, and since “sin’s toxin” was coincidentally known to cause “amnesia” it worked just fine with most people. But, “sin’s toxin” didn’t seem to cause amnesia for most of the people that got near sin, it didn’t effect you during any battle with sin, and the populace of the game’s world didn’t seem to be heavily effected by the toxin at all (just the destruction that sin would cause.) And worst of all, Tidus’ ploy worked extraordinarily well with most people in that world, as if everybody knew at least someone that was afflicted with sin-based amnesia >..>

Kumiko Akimoto

That’s what i say about friendship is magic plots in anything

Sergio Briceño

I think it has to do with having a very important character close to less important characters. The main character (or his partner) doesn’t remember who or what he is or just how important he is so he just hangs out with the rest of the party until remembering is needed. Yeah, it’s not that clever…

Warboss Aohd

it’s not just JRPGs, hell in some cases not just Japanese Games.

it can be used well, like Lost Odyssey or Planescape: Torment, but they really outta come up with some new ideas, or at least come up with a good reason for the Amnesia.

Kornelious

We….are never getting this game :(

Laer_HeiSeiRyuu

You dont want it

Slickyslacker

Hmm, I had an exceedingly similar concept for a game when I was a kid. Something I called “Angel Wars”, though it exclusively featured warring factions of angels, not angels and demons.

I may just want to import this eventually, if nothing happens.

SerRompalot

What. When did Kalar become angels? <3

Warboss Aohd

Oh gee, a bunch of busty women wearing revealing outfits instead of armor or padded clothing that would befit a combat tournament.

How Clever and Original.

Thatguy

Dark Elves from Warhammer fighting in combat tournament naked. For spectators.
That is Clever and Original.

Warboss Aohd

touche

seiya19

Are steroid-infused bald men on military shooters original ? Are colorful, anthropomorphized animals on whimsical worlds original ? Are zombies, vampires, werewolves and superheroes original ? Are Hollywood-style melodramas with set pieces filled with unrealistic situations, full of explosions and chases original ? Are every Lord of The Rings/Star Wars wannabe out there original ?

Since we know that the gaming industry and pretty much all media these days is full of clichés and overused troopes (which we all have examples that we enjoy), how about we don’t throw rocks from glass houses ? Specially to a remake of a niché game from 1994 that’s clearly not pretending to set the world on fire ?

http://twitter.com/puchixseda puchinri

I think the problem is, some of the overuse of the tropes and cliches got heavier (and worse?) this time? Like, cliches aren’t great and tropes alone aren’t bad, but it’s how they’re used. But lately, IE has not cared much on story-telling or being very bright with that, so I do roll my eyes at them.

Also, just because something isn’t setting high standards for itself (or is a remake) doesn’t mean it’s exempt from critique (and being a remake or spiritual successor doesn’t mean it can’t aim for high quality and inspire to be better).

I really think the problem boils down to IE, but that’s all I say because I don’t have a great opinion of them anymore.

http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

I guess they’ve given up on trying to champion for JRPGs. I don’t feel like blaming them for that if it was the case though… Trying to regain a good mainstream impression for the entire category isn’t a task a single company can bear, especially in recent years.

…Not that I think that excuses their recent blunders and such, of course.

http://twitter.com/puchixseda puchinri

I definitely agree there. I do feel how they went about it was odd though too (their prior titles would have been better molds than what they produced following the statement).

Seems as though they tried, it kind of failed and now they just kind of do whatever (in a good and bad way).

seiya19

Criticism is one thing, cheap sarcasm is another. Just compare Locklear93′s posts regarding amnesia to Warboss Aohd’s post to evidence the difference. While the first one makes a case beyond this game in particular and clarifies his/her stance regarding the element in question, the latter is just limited to being a cheap shot. In fact, it makes me doubt whether the issue for him/her is just the focus on fanservice, instead of having anything to do with the way it’s executed.

Of course, no game is beyond criticism, but I don’t see how it’s fair to single out this game for not being original in an industry where even new high-budget “AAA” games succumb to clichés regularly, not to mention getting praise despite of it. Since innovation in general is quite rare, I demand more from those who have the resources to do so, and from those projects that claim to aim for that goal.

Besides, expecting this game not to have “busting women wearing revealing outfits” is pretty much expecting it not to be “Toshin Toshi”, isn’t it ? And since this is not an ImageEpoch IP, the creative direction of the game is not just up to them. It would make more sense to judge them in this area by their own games, like the upcoming SRPG project they’re working on.

Warboss Aohd

yes the bald men in military shooters isn’t original, the Anthromorphic actually isn’t really that common anymore the only one i can think of from recent years are from Sega and Dust: An Elysian Tale, so that’s a bad example. honestly, nor are Zombies, Vampires, or Werewolves, or Superheroes (aren’t many Werewolf or Superhero games though.). Yes to the melodramas and explosions, yes there are wannabes.

But here’s the thing, i look at every game i play, see news on, read about based on what i see, as do most people.

I am critiquing THIS game, not those games. And This game seems very underwhelming.
Alot of you may disagree with me ‘points to previous post’s dislikes’ but i’m not ASKING you to, i merely tell it how i see it. I’m not trolling, i’m not bashing, merely stating what i think.

seiya19

As I’ve stated before, your “critique” was limited to a simple sarcastic line, without explaining much as to why is it an issue or how it could be better, all while ignoring the fact that we’re talking about a remake. Maybe if you had expressed your thoughts in a different matter, both more respectful and thoughtful, you would’ve had a different reaction. You reap what you sow.

But of course, you’re entitled to your opinion on the game, and I’m certainly not asking you to change it. I believe my comments still stand though, as just being here and having an opinion doesn’t justify your comment in my view. The way I see it, if you don’t have anything nice to say or constructive criticism, then you better keep it to yourself.

Anyway, my last post on the matter. I’ll read anything you want to add though, if any.

Warboss Aohd

ok i shall then, i think that the whole ‘let’s design outfits your typical person would never wear out in public’ schtick has gotten really old, it’s gotten really boring and stale, sure it was amusing when they initially did this, but now it’s out of control.

You can’t keep rehashing something over and over, cause eventually people will lose interest and any people from outside the intended audience may not even try your game/anime/movie/whatever else because they thin it will be crap.

If the critique is for these kind of games as whole, this is a spot on. Still, for a game based on a 90′s game these kind of attires can be considered appreciation to the original work. (Though Alice Soft’s design is more consistently pretty, even now, reminiscent to 90′s fantasy anime attires like Rayearth)

At least, there’s still eroges out there that try to believable like Kara no Shoujo (hail all black hair girls)

M’iau M’iaut

KnS remains the only pure eroge we have covered, since it is so much more than just the sex.

Do wish MG would let us know a hint of when the prequel and sequel will be out.

Rather than wasting time on Really? Really! or Miles, Knight of A*al Tyranny. We aren’t going to bring new folks to the table with either of those.

neocatzon

Aren’t those cheap title like Ultimate Boob Wars!! ~Big Breasts vs Flat Chests~ (they are so fun to type) meant to quick selling for funding bigger release from Overdrive and the likes?

At least, they got Innocent Grey trust.. this is more.. than enough.. *cough blood*

M’iau M’iaut

Yes, the nukiges pay the bills — just as they always have in the Western market….

But to inflict on us yet another Shuffle fan disk? So much creys. :P

Roll Caskett

Video game porn ?

Chido55

I can deal with boobs but not NTR.

Splinter

Dear XSEED, can you please save us again? Localizing it like you did with Senran Kagura Burst would be awesome. Thanks!

Renaldi Saputra

I think their reply will be just like Extetra: weird game
bcos it’s a game about stealing others’ waifus

ZnTxn

Hard choices indeed.

DarkLight

Any chance of this coming over?Hmm”Hard choices” indeed.

Renaldi Saputra

there is, but I doubt

http://epiclyamazing.wordpress.com/ AzureNova

A game that promotes cheating for the sake of love. Sounds legit. Dat hentai logic lol =P

PoweredByHentai

I take it that you have never played Thousand Arms?

http://epiclyamazing.wordpress.com/ AzureNova

Sadly no lol

PoweredByHentai

It’s a pretty interesting game with dating sim mechanics, especially if you want to UBER your party with stats and skills.

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