Good question Livio... But in all honesty, I haven't got the faintest idea.

Perhaps 'The Boss' reckons no one lives in that region, and that one or two of us live up here in the northern wastelands and greater numbers enjoy the warm sunny climes of the meridione and the islands.

I was wondering what constitutes Central Italy. Usually it's just North and South but at Italy World Club they have a map that is divided in three, but perhaps because they wanted the colors of the Italian flag represented. Looks good though: Green for the North, White for Central, Red for South. They have Central as Toscana, Marche, Umbria, Abruzzo, Lazio. I guess this is arbitary. Then I get to be in Central and South, no? And a neighbor of Emmy in Frosinone.

I was wondering what constitutes Central Italy. Usually it's just North and South but at Italy World Club they have a map that is divided in three, but perhaps because they wanted the colors of the Italian flag represented. Looks good though: Green for the North, White for Central, Red for South. They have Central as Toscana, Marche, Umbria, Abruzzo, Lazio. I guess this is arbitary. Then I get to be in Central and South, no? And a neighbor of Emmy in Frosinone.

Dave

I don't believe there is an official statement on what constitute central, North or South Italy, however Toscana, Marche, Umbria, Abruzzo and Lazio, together with Sardegna are definitely Central!

I'm definately in the middle Frosinone in Lazio?
Before Gente moved to this site I told Nuccia I have quite a few films on extended loan from LDS for Sant'Elia Fiumerapido. So if anyone wants me to look up anything for that comune it will be no bother. Dont know if Nuccia still has the list of films I have if not I can post them again here.
Emmy

My uncle Joe Wawro was in Italy during WWII and had a book about the Fifth Army operations. The index lists four references to Sant'Elia, which I thought was the one our relatives came from in Campobasso, but turned out to be your Sant'Elia. Uncle Joe had a number of photos, but they are from the area closer to the coast: Anzio, Capua, Cisterna (one is labeled Cestrina). a few from Rome. My cousin said he stayed with a family in Naples, but there are no photos of there.

As I research his movements, more library books have been taken out that describe which military units were in the area. The 3rd RTA of the 3rd Algerian Division is listed as clearing the Germans from Sant'Elia on January 15, 1944. Sant'Elia was on the Corps boundry between the French (FEC) and the II Corps US.

When I first looked up Sant'Elia Fiumerapido, I got side tracked to Fiume, the Italian name for a town in Croatia. Then found that Frusino was an ancient town founded by the Volsci, so those are the people in your area.
Still trying to find out which Samnite group was around Sant'Elia a Pianiisi.

Biff has a topic about WWII and relatives' role in it. As I have many photos of both my fathers and uncles, not to mention mothers and aunts, I want to post there.

Another library book has more detailed info on your Sant'Elia; I'll have to go back on Monday to take it out.

I'm definately in the middle Frosinone in Lazio?
Before Gente moved to this site I told Nuccia I have quite a few films on extended loan from LDS for Sant'Elia Fiumerapido. So if anyone wants me to look up anything for that comune it will be no bother. Dont know if Nuccia still has the list of films I have if not I can post them again here.
Emmy

Emmy,

Sorry I missed this post since I think I was busy with Simy at the time..lol.

Still reading the books on WWII in Italy. Did not know that the Fifth Army had many British units also, besides the French or that the British Eighth Army had American units with them. There are a number of Scottish units too like the 2 Scots Guards or 2 Royal Scots Fusiliers.

Two of the books are published by the US Armysoon after the war, so there is much detail on the tactics and pretty good maps.

The other is called Monte Cassino by Matthew Parker published in 2004. He interviewed many soldiers from both sides and gives their perspective. Some are cited in the bibliography as written their own books. One in particular that I would like to read is by a French nurse, Solange Cuvillier titled Tribulations d'une Femme dans l'Armee Francais. Lettres du Monde, 1991

There are two civilians he quotes: Tony Pittaccio, who was 12 at the time, born in Cassino but raised in Southampton, as his father was half English, like himself. He was visiting his mother and two sisters.

Gemma Notarianni was seventeen and from Valvori. tells how her family got out of there, orignially a route through Sant'Elia, but a bridge was out, so they went over mountain roads to Vallerotonda. There was a confrontation with Gorms, but they got through.

Natually, the civilians suffered, from mines and bombs, malaria and starvation, not to mention being shot at by both sides when going through no man's land.

Any of these names familar to you? There are good photos of the area, soldiers mentioned, including Solange, and of the two families. There is a topic at ItalianGenealogy where someone is writing a book and wanted info about the war near her ancestral home of Sora, esp about children. A reply was from someone in Sora and knew many stories. Perhaps you could find someone as well. I'll try to go back and find the post.

Here is on photo my Uncle Joe took, labeled Cestrina, but I think he meant Cisterna. Cestrina or Testrina seems to be a village in Abruzzo that Cato refers to as the home of the Sabines.

Let me know if the names ring a bell.

Dave

Nuccia,

Been up too late trying to find genealogy clues or even to get yahoo to work or programs. Falling asleep with my hands on the keyboard. I miss everybody too. Will try to post more and the photos recently scanned.

Thank you for posting that Dave
I didnt recognise any of the names. It must have been terrible for them during the war. If only we could live in peace but it seems that even now lessons from the past havent been learned.
I know if Bob had still been alive he would have been very interested to find all this information. I cant remember the regiment that Bob was in but I do know that one of the 'signs' for the regiment looked something like a 'gazelle'.
Missed that post about someone looking for informaton for a book?
Emmy

I was thinking, by the way, of posting at Amici in the Culture section about life in Auburn for the Italian-American community. That section is mostly about Italy, which I am very interested in, of course. But I also want to know about Italians in other countries, such as yourself and Marisa. What is it like in Scotland and what differences between both your upbringing, if you are in different parts of the country?

Have you heard of Frances Wright, a young Scot who toured America in the early 1800s when she was 18. I read her book about the experiences and also a bio of Jefferson, whom she met, by Prof. Dawn Brodie. There is a part there where Frances and her sister Camilla were here again in 1825 following a day or so behind Lafayette on his tour, which stopped here in Auburn, so she must have too. The Brodie book says she wrote to Lafayette to "either marry us or adopt us," which Lafayette's daughters did not like, hence they traveled in a later group. Amazing person...she started a colony called Neosha out west (driven from the first place) to resettle freed slaves. While she was away in Scotland with illness, much trouble from rumors of mixed marriages and free love. Oh well. Great story and history.

There is more to say about the war around Cassino.
Have to go to sleep but first check on Snip and Slug; he's been going into her bed and I have to get him out into his own so she can sleep warm.

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