(Original post by Jammy Duel)
It doesn't actually stipulate they must go into higher education, if they are held back 2 years they do not need to touch it, similarly vocational courses or even an outright apprenticeship is allowable.

but those things (excluding the arbitrary "held back for two years") really aren't that different at all from higher education - they're still basically compulsory. either you do a levels, b techs, vocational courses, apprenticeship courses, or you get spanked.

(Original post by sleepysnooze)
but those things (excluding the arbitrary "held back for two years") really aren't that different at all from higher education - they're still basically compulsory. either you do a levels, b techs, vocational courses, apprenticeship courses, or you get spanked.

As A 16 year old, I firmly believe we should be given the vote as I feel many arguments against it are flawed:

1) We lack Maturity... but we can have Sex and be responsible for a child?
2) Low Turnouts? Evidence says otherwise: 75% turnout for 16-17 year olds in Scottish Referendum compared to 54% for 17-21 year olds
3) Lack Political knowledge? Perhaps, but as do many people who are far older
4) Too Young? Why aren't 90 year olds seen as too Old?
5) Easily Manipulated- Like the Over 18s who fell for the idea that we would THAT much more to spend on the NHS if we left the EU?

Any more?

The truth is, and I repeat, The Tories are afraid to give us the Vote- Why? Because studies show younger people are more likely to believe in a socialist society or as close to that as we can get- I.e Labour, Lib Dems, Green Party etc

The only way we would be able to vote is to get one of those parties into power (Not a Tory coalition) but that isn't looking likely. So for now, we can only try to make more people aware of why we should be given the vote.

(Original post by YouthToVote)
The truth is- The Tories are afraid to lower the Voting Age.

As A 16 year old, I firmly believe we should be given the vote as I feel many arguments against it are flawed:

1) We lack Maturity... but we can have Sex and be responsible for a child?
2) Low Turnouts? Evidence says otherwise: 75% turnout for 16-17 year olds in Scottish Referendum compared to 54% for 17-21 year olds
3) Lack Political knowledge? Perhaps, but as do many people who are far older
4) Too Young? Why aren't 90 year olds seen as too Old?
5) Easily Manipulated- Like the Over 18s who fell for the idea that we would THAT much more to spend on the NHS if we left the EU?

Any more?

The truth is, and I repeat, The Tories are afraid to give us the Vote- Why? Because studies show younger people are more likely to believe in a socialist society or as close to that as we can get- I.e Labour, Lib Dems, Green Party etc

The only way we would be able to vote is to get one of those parties into power (Not a Tory coalition) but that isn't looking likely. So for now, we can only try to make more people aware of why we should be given the vote.

The 'fundamental reason' that isn't a reason? Indeed, we may be 'children' by age but that doesn't mean 'children' by mentality.

Votes such as the EU referendum: You believe it is fair that 16+17 year olds will have to live a life outside of the EU because others voted that way, (I must state, I accept the result of the referendum) while 85+ year olds who voted wont have to live through the consequences of their own vote?

It is the ignorant view of SOME older people that means younger people can't vote. I question what right you have to deny someone else the same right as you to place a vote?

I said it before and I'll say it again, 16-17 year olds wouldn't have changed the outcome of the EU referendum, they would've only narrowed the gap. Going by the ~30% difference in population vs registered voters at the time, and then accounting for a ~70% turnout, you'd be looking at about 750k 16-17 year olds (out of about 1.5 million) who would've actually voted. It's a lot, but it's not enough to turn the tide.

If over 65s were denied their right to vote, it'd be a different story, remain would've won by about 200k votes. However, over 65s have as much right to vote as any other registered voter. If young people don't like discrimination against race, sex and religion, why is discrimination seen as okay when it comes to age and political beliefs? Spoiler Alert! It's not helping them push their agenda.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's particularly fair, but they will still have to live with the decision at the end of the day. Not as long as young people, but they still have to live through it.

(Original post by YouthToVote)
The 'fundamental reason' that isn't a reason? Indeed, we may be 'children' by age but that doesn't mean 'children' by mentality.

Votes such as the EU referendum: You believe it is fair that 16+17 year olds will have to live a life outside of the EU because others voted that way, (I must state, I accept the result of the referendum) while 85+ year olds who voted wont have to live through the consequences of their own vote?

It is the ignorant view of SOME older people that means younger people can't vote. I question what right you have to deny someone else the same right as you to place a vote?

That is one of the most ignorant ageophobic arguments out there, you're in effect saying that babies should be enfranchised and pensioners should be disenfranchised simply down to statistical life span. Also by your own argument there should be truly universal enfranchisement, do you believe newborns should be able to vote, after all, what right do you have to deny them the right to vote?" How about foreign nationals, what right do we have to stop them? How about foreigners we are at war with?

Why should somebody who is not deemed responsible enough to even care for themselves, or determine the guilt of others under the law be able to vote? Certainly all of the common arguments in favour of lowering the voting age to 16 are deeply flawed, perhaps with the exception of the no taxation without representation one, with slight changing in the wording.

The Point regarding 85+ year olds that I made was merely a way of putting my point across that we will have to live through the consequences of a result that we had zero impact on. It is important to note that applies to everyone in the UK of course. I don't actually believe their vote should be removed- They have as much right as anyone else- As stated in your responses. My question, better worded, was this- Do they Have MORE of a right than someone who is also going to live through the result?

With regards to babies, and foreigners? Seriously? You and I both know the answer. Why would someone from a different nation have the right to influence a vote that doesn't affect them? It is a thoughtless statement to make that doesn't even use anything from my response to suggest I said anything close to that. As for babies being given the vote? I'm not even going to respond...

Why 16? And Not younger? We can financially contribute, why can't we vote? We can be a parent but still can't vote? (One or the other has to give way) We can marry (With Consent) but can't vote?
The government ought to make their minds up. Are we Adults or Children, don't have contradictory policies that put us in between.

I think the voting age should not be lowered. Often younger people don't look at the facts or primary information sources but get carried away on ignorant ideas that they can't justify.
Not a stereotype, it's what I've seen in my experience (and I'm only 18) because generally once people leave the far-left run education system and start working for a few years they change their opinions.

(Original post by james813)
I think the voting age should not be lowered. Often younger people don't look at the facts or primary information sources but get carried away on ignorant ideas that they can't justify.
Not a stereotype, it's what I've seen in my experience (and I'm only 18) because generally once people leave the far-left run education system and start working for a few years they change their opinions.

Stopped listening as you are only 18. What do you know? (annoying isn't it)

You are just regurgitating the most lazy right wing trope about the young commie teachers indoctrinating children and people getting more right wing as they get older. So what? You read a few right wing articles on the internet and now think you have deep insight into political philosophy that others lack to the point you think they shouldn't be able to vote. You are a flipping stereotype.

Young people can not be both politically engaged leftists and ignorant of politics at the same time. I suspect it isn't their supposed ignorance you have a problem with, they just have the "wrong politics". So really your position is that anyone with a certain political outlook should be banned from voting.

You are also going to get a shock when you realise most adults don't have a clue either.

The truth is, and I repeat, The Tories are afraid to give us the Vote- Why? Because studies show younger people are more likely to believe in a socialist society or as close to that as we can get- I.e Labour, Lib Dems, Green Party etc

This is essentially the reason why young people can't vote. It's similar reasons why we don't get referendums on PR.

(Original post by YouthToVote)
Indeed, we may be 'children' by age but that doesn't mean 'children' by mentality.

It basically does.

It's not just a matter of being informed as to the facts. It can't be too hard to find a 16 year old who knows more about politics than the average 30 year old. The difference is that the 16 year old in the overwhelming majority of cases still lives at home as a dependent and still spends the majority of his time in education. It is a matter of maturity of outlook, which you don't get until you've managed your own finances, looked after yourself, and paid a cut of your income over to the treasury.

Of course most of the above also applies to a substantial chunk of university students, for which reason I personally would like to see the voting age increased to 25. That's obviously not going to happen, but let's at least not get silly and start letting schoolchildren decide on how the grown-ups should run society.

(Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
Stopped listening as you are only 18. What do you know? (annoying isn't it)

You are just regurgitating the most lazy right wing trope about the young commie teachers indoctrinating children and people getting more right wing as they get older. So what? You read a few right wing articles on the internet and now think you have deep insight into political philosophy that others lack to the point you think they shouldn't be able to vote. You are a flipping stereotype.

Young people can not be both politically engaged leftists and ignorant of politics at the same time. I suspect it isn't their supposed ignorance you have a problem with, they just have the "wrong politics". So really your position is that anyone with a certain political outlook should be banned from voting.

You are also going to get a shock when you realise most adults don't have a clue either.

This is essentially the reason why young people can't vote. It's similar reasons why we don't get referendums on PR.

Wrong, my favourite politician is Dennis Skinner, and I would vote Labour if they were credible. It really is the immature ignorance of many who take a populist position that they don't understand.

(Original post by YouthToVote)
The Point regarding 85+ year olds that I made was merely a way of putting my point across that we will have to live through the consequences of a result that we had zero impact on. It is important to note that applies to everyone in the UK of course. I don't actually believe their vote should be removed- They have as much right as anyone else- As stated in your responses. My question, better worded, was this- Do they Have MORE of a right than someone who is also going to live through the result?

With regards to babies, and foreigners? Seriously? You and I both know the answer. Why would someone from a different nation have the right to influence a vote that doesn't affect them? It is a thoughtless statement to make that doesn't even use anything from my response to suggest I said anything close to that. As for babies being given the vote? I'm not even going to respond...

Why 16? And Not younger? We can financially contribute, why can't we vote? We can be a parent but still can't vote? (One or the other has to give way) We can marry (With Consent) but can't vote?
The government ought to make their minds up. Are we Adults or Children, don't have contradictory policies that put us in between.

You mention those aged 85+- actually, from my experience, those born around 1940 and before were more likely to vote Remain, but unfortunately they're lumped in with 65-80 year-old son in most polls.

Studies also show that if the electorate were limited to those who change their underwear daily, Remain would've won, so....

If we can hold out and get another referendum in a few years' time, maybe some of the Leavers will have died and we'll have a better chance.

As for the 16+ vote- perhaps I'm biased, being underage, but if all voters were required to take a basic test showing their understanding of politics, the electorate would be fine with those enlightened 16-year-olds, surely.