If it wasn’t for Jesus, you would cease to exist! Really…

Speaking of that strong creator here's who he is...But the LORD is the true God, he is the living God, and an everlasting king: at his wrath the
earth shall tremble, and the nations shall not be able to abide his indignation. Thus shall ye say unto them, The gods that have not made the heavens
and the earth, even they shall perish from the earth, and from under these heavens. He hath made the earth by his power, he hath established the world
by his wisdom, and hath stretched out the heavens by his discretion. (Jeremiah 10:12)

Consider some of the amazing aspects of design that are evident in our solar system:

1. The earth is positioned at just the right distance from the sun so that we receive exactly the proper amount of heat to support life. The other
planets of our solar system are either too close to the sun (too hot) or else too far (too cold) to sustain life.

2. Any appreciable change in the rate of rotation of the earth would make life impossible. For example, if the earth were to rotate at 1/10th its
present rate, all plant life would either be burned to a crisp during the day or frozen at night.

3. Temperature variations are kept within reasonable limits due to the nearly circular orbit of the earth around the sun.

4. The moon revolves around the earth at a distance of about 240,000 miles, causing harmless tides on the earth. If the moon were located 1/5th of
this distance away, the continents would be completely submerged twice a day!

5. The thickness of the earth's crust and the depth of the oceans appear to be carefully designed. Increases in thickness or depth of only a few feet
would so drastically alter the absorption of free oxygen and carbon dioxide that plant and animal life could not exist.

6. The earth's axis is tilted 23 degrees from the perpendicular to the plane of its orbit. This tilting, combined with the earth's revolution around
the sun, causes our seasons, which are absolutely essential for the raising of food supplies.

7. The earth's atmosphere (especially the ozone layer) serves as a protective shield from lethal solar ultraviolet radiation, which would otherwise
destroy all life.

8. The earth's atmosphere also serves to protect the earth by burning up approximately twenty million meteors each day that enter it at speeds of
about 30 miles per second! Without this crucial protection, the danger to life would be immense.

9. The two primary constituents of the earth's atmosphere are nitrogen (78 percent) and oxygen (20 percent). This delicate and critical ratio is
essential to all life forms.

10. The earth's magnetic field provides important protection from harmful cosmic radiation.

All of this happened just by chance? I think someone would have to commit intellectual suicide to believe that. What does your logic say as you
consider the evidence?

Although Mr. Black is humorous, both you and he are forgetting (ignoring?) the many dozen references.predictions/prochecies to the jesusgod as you
call him...if interested in learning more see...

Sorry dude can't speak for Mr Black but cherry picking from hundreds of years of dubious scriptures to find vague similarities with later events, is
not predicting anything and certainly not proof of anything.

This is as wishy washy as any fortune teller or those that promote the works of Nostradamus.

Nowhere in the OT does it say something quite specific like this -

And Yahweh said to Trevor " In the year 4 (or whatever as Yahoos days are sometimes years or thousands of years depending on who you listen to) I
Yahweh the jealous god blah blah will come to you in human form and will walk among you as a man"

"I will change my name to Jesus the grandson of so and so the son of so and so brother of so and so." "I will be born in a town called so and so
and king so and so will hear of it and kill hundreds or of babies just in case they are me, so there will be hundreds or thousands of little baby
graves around the area on my birthday."

"At the age of 12 I will argue with the rabbis and enter into theological debate about myself etc etc. Later on I will have twelve disciples by the
names of so and so and will hang out with a woman called Mary of Magdella. I will be of x height and weight with the usual beard and x hair and have
a following of many thousands of Jews my chosen people, of whom I am one just like the rest of my brothers and sisters named so and so."

" I will then go about these miracles ( list of miracles dates times and places) teach everyone all about me, as it is quite clear that you lot are
not getting what I'm about at the moment and I will need to change the way I operate in the future".

"At x date and time one of my followers will turn me in to the romans for upsetting the priests etc and they will collude to execute me by
crucifixion on x date and time, and my chosen people the jews will get the blame for my big idea."

"While I am suffering on a timber beam with nails through my ankles and wrists there will be 2 other people suffering the same fate, however while
they scream in agony they manage to find the breath to get into an argument about my execution."

"Just before I die (as I have somehow made it possible for me to die ) I ask myself why I have abandoned myself, and I die at x date and time
approximately 6 hours after being hung up" " On X date and time Ms X and Ms X will come to where I have been buried and find that my body has gone,
as I didn't really die I just pretended to for the sake of the lesson I'm going to teach your future generations"

There you go OT that's pretty specific if it was put to paper a thousand years or more before the actual event, and that piece of paper remained
authentic till now.

No doubt many xtians will claim "Ah but Yahwegod didn't want us to know what he was going to do back then, so he made things a bit vague.
For the sake of band width I'll not go any further into insane logic for the moment, it's enough to say that a prediction has to be quite specific,
and the various texts you quoted are far from that.

You're right...
Religious prophecies must be vague but not too vague.
It's a fine line that has to be met for a religion to flourish. It creates enough curiosity and wonder without being falsifiable.
Just like a fortune teller.

Damn... I know so much about this stuff, it almost makes me want to start my own religion and see how far it goes

moo! that was the LONGEST answer I've seen from u...I'm with my boys playin GoldenTee at the local...kickin their butts,btw... I'llget back with u
tomorrow ....did u refute the hundreds of predicted items on the link or just mess with my posted?

moo! that was the LONGEST answer I've seen from u...I'm with my boys playin GoldenTee at the local...kickin their butts,btw... I'llget back with u
tomorrow ....did u refute the hundreds of predicted items on the link or just mess with my posted?

I'm glad you asked these questions, OT. Take notes, this will be on the final.

Doesn’t evolution violate the First Law of Thermodynamics, the law of energy conservation, which states that energy can be converted from one
form into another, but it can neither be created or destroyed? YEP!

Not sure where this idea comes from. All life on earth is continually supported by one thing which gives us all our energy either directly or
indirectly, the sun. As life goes on, energy radiates from our planet, effectively being lost, but we gain more energy from the sun than we loose. The
sun itself has a limited supply of fuel however and will eventually run out. Because of that, evolution does not violate the first law.

On a second note, the first law doesn't even apply because evolution is an open system. Conservation of the first law will only be kept if you are
dealing with a closed system.

Doesn’t evolution violate the Second Law of Thermodynamics, the law of energy decay? The energy available for useful work in a functioning
system tends to decrease, even though the total energy remains constant. Structured systems progress from a more orderly, more complex, state to a
less orderly, disorganized, and random state. YEP!

No because life is just a thing called organic chemistry. Complexity and largeness of living organisms is a direct result of the second law, entropy
in chemistry. Change in a organism occurs when a circumstantial mistake is made. The mistake is either good bad or neutral. Most bad mistakes kill the
organism, but neutral and good mistakes remain. Given time, 3 billion years, mistakes will produce the complexity and variety that we see in life
today.

Doesn’t evolution violate the Law of Biogenesis that life comes only from preexisting life and will only perpetuate its own kind?

No and I HAVE to call you obscenely ignorant on this one. Evolution is the theory that explains the diversity of life, not where it
comes from. The explanation for how life starts is abiogenesis, a totally different science. If you look up abiogenesis you'll find that the first
forms of life were not fully alive, similar to a virus (MRSGREN). The first forms didn't "perpetuate" in a reproductive sense at all, they just
feed and grew- then they broke apart forming new individuals. But that is not the Theory of evolution at all.

Also if you are going to use that you need to define the word "Kind". creationists refuse to define it.

Is there not any evidence in the fossil record to substantiate evolution?

Hasn’t the fossil record failed to document a single, verifiable "missing link" between ape and man? Maybe some neat drawing, but nothing
verifiable right?

There is no missing link, there hasn't been a missing link in human evolution in 40 years!Human evolution

Ken Miller is a catholic scientist.

Apart from that, just about every single thing in the fossil record is a piece of evidence supporting evolution. The fossil record is limited by the
fact that requires very particular circumstances to produce fossils. You go on a holiday and have one long experience, doing all sorts of things with
friends. You end up with photos representing snapshots in time of only an instance. With out memory of the holiday, it would be very difficult to put
the photos in order. That's what happens with transitional forms (all forms are transitional by the way, including us). Look up archaeopteryx. It's
an avian dinosaur and an ancestor of modern birds.

And lastly doesn’t evolution fail to explain the existence of even a "simple cell." ????
Single cell organisms have in their genes and chromosomes as much data as there are letters in the world’s largest libraries - a trillion letters.
Heck, OT doesn’t really KNOW what happened in the past…I dunno....i think a gambling man would choose a strong creator over
chance…sorry!

Today's "simple cell", or bacterium, is a champion of 3 billion years of evolution. It is not aptly named as
it is as complex as any form of life on earth.

The first truly "simple cell", according to abiogenesis, would have been nothing but an amino acid shell with some useless information inside.
Nothing more. Such a thing could easily develop from non-living organic matter.

OK what ever, just don't start a debate you can't finish. Also these claims are all tired old creationist garbage. It should be known that all
challenges that creationists have made against evolution have been met pretty well immediately. So if you get these from answers in genesis or
something, keep in mind that anyone with any decent scientific knowledge will be able to pick them apart.

Ever thought about that, I was dreaming last night an there was lots and lots of evidence for what my eyes..... oh wait there they were closed how
come there was light in my dream?

how did that get there? How is there light in dreams just the same way as we see it?

and feeling?

and taste?

and sound?

I wonder....

Anyhow your whole hypothesis of the OP is about 1000 years too late (the cross) as this man has proved, the true secrets of the Cross lie in the
ancient Celtic and previous to that Indian subcontinent Knot work and patterns...

Resurrected by Crichton E M Miller in 1997 the ancient working cross has been awarded two Patents.

The cross was demonstrated twice at Cambridge University by invitation in 2006 and 2007.

I don't overly wanna argue but you made some rather bad claims about evolution being impossible which I felt I needed to address.

I am drinking but it takes a lot to get me even tipsy. I'm a uni student so I always have some amount of alcohol in my system. So far tonight I've
had a few KGB's and a couple of beers.

.................

I've got to go off now, get some tea. I'll be back on later tonight to talk about that whole "All the right circumstances (sun, earth, moon, crust,
atmosphere, etc) exist for intelligent life to occurr- this can't be a coincidence" thing you mentioned earlier. K.

Consider some of the amazing aspects of design that are evident in our solar system:

[snip]

All of this happened just by chance? I think someone would have to commit intellectual suicide to believe that. What does your logic say as you
consider the evidence?

That is not evidence of creation. These are requirements for us as we are now to exist and survive. I read a book by Isaac Asumov in high school about
the requirements for life to exist in the universe. Quite eye opening.

Extraterrestrial Civilizations is a book written by Isaac Asimov in 1979, wherein the probability of there being intelligent extraterrestrial
civilizations within the Milky Way galaxy is estimated. This estimation is approached by progressively analyzing the requirements for life to
exist.

The term "Earth-like world" is prominent, in that the assumption is made that any world where life could evolve would have certain similarities to
Earth, such as temperature ranges and gravity sufficient for an atmosphere to exist. Asimov begins with the estimated amount of stars in the galaxy,
300 billion.

This number is then reduced to 280 billion as stars without planetary systems are discarded, and then furthermore reduced as more factors are taken
into consideration. This process culminates in the statement that "the number of planets in our galaxy on which a technological civilization is now
in being is roughly 530,000."

The fact is that every single one of those 530,000 civilizations has individuals making lists like you posted. You may think that it is somehow
cosmically significant that these conditions but they are fairly common everywhere.

This is interesting and I watched the little video, but even a little research will show that it does not always look like a cross, it bends and
twists. It's actually made up of three separate parts, called the A, B1, and B2 chains. That gives it really a total of six "ends", which accounts
for a lot of its flexibility in connecting up various kinds of molecules. Because of this, scientists who create biomaterials are extremely
interested in the whole family of laminins. They use them to create artificial substrates for transplants.

I found pictures of laminin in the human body that actually look like a pitchfork (it has six ends, maybe the devil did it), a cross, an upside down
peace sign (or sword), among other things. Laminin is not a uniform cross shape all the time. I wouldn't base faith on this.

If there was nothing before Creation, where did God, the sentient, all-knowing, all-powerful deity come from? No one from any organized religion will
even attempt to answer this question, well, actually they usually say that 'he just is,' or 'have faith'. The closest I've gotten is the Kabbalah
in Jewish mysticism, but their description of God's origins looks and sounds a lot like evolution.

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