Has anyone been able to get screencaps from HD DVD's or Bluray disks yet? I have been curious to see how they handle demanding scenes (heavy movement, smoke, water, fast scene changes, harsh lighting). Its a shame to see what Satellite and most cable companies have done to HD programming. Once the prices start to go down and one of the formats becomes the "standard" I will seriously consider buying the new player and disks.

I don't see one format becoming 'standard" this time around. This isn't like the Beta vs VHS thing where it's virtually impossible to make a player that can handle both. I think this time around, both formats will persist, but all future players and recorders will handle both. At this point, there's little reason to continue to make standalone players other than for the benefit of those that only want one or the other for a smaller price. Honestly, though, I would imagine the single format drives in the PS3 and X-Box will soon be considered dinosaurs.

I don't see one format becoming 'standard" this time around. This isn't like the Beta vs VHS thing where it's virtually impossible to make a player that can handle both. I think this time around, both formats will persist, but all future players and recorders will handle both. At this point, there's little reason to continue to make standalone players other than for the benefit of those that only want one or the other for a smaller price. Honestly, though, I would imagine the single format drives in the PS3 and X-Box will soon be considered dinosaurs.

Yeah. I tend to agree with everything you said there except one thing. Xbox360 has an external HD DVD add on. Not an internal one like the PS3. So upgrading shouldn't be such a problem if Microsoft decides to support Bluray also. Thankfully I havent purchased either yet.

It appears that duel players are already being made. Hopefully the prices will come down soon. I just feel bad for the average person. Some people don't even know how to tell which version of a DVD they are buying (widescreen or fullscreen). I can just imagine the confusion when Nanna tries to go out and buy little Timmy his favorite movie and having to deal with 2-4 different disks for the same film.

People stopped watching because it sucked ass. Not because they didnt know the show was on. Now they are no longer watching the shows they liked because you constantly promote other crap.

Many of us have seen over the last several years a tremendous degradation in the HD PQ of D*. This is such a common, widespread, and often reported complaint on this board that to me it's not opinion but fact.

Yours is a minority opinion (fact?) and it's not helped by being fairly new and going really far in our estimation by labelling D* HD "as good as OTA" and even "stunning." This is seen as almost an in-your-face insult to us fanatics who've been ranting about HD Lite for quite some time.

So being fanatical about HD, it's difficult to control ourselves over such posts, especially since for whatever the reason we're stuck with D*. But you're absolutely right! We should resist with all our might the inclination to go ballistic and hurl epithets when someone comes out strongly to the defense of one of our most hated things in tv: HD Lite. We must strive for more civility here and show respect for others. I know what it feels like to be on the receiving end!

Well I appreciate your opinion and your comment.

And while I still stand by my statement that in my situation and setup, D* HD looks as good as OTA in most cases(there are instances on certain channels where it sucks, but I would think thats true of most providers) I also understand that it is not like that for everyone.

This should be very helpful information for the 5% or so of people who actually have TV's that can do 1920x1080. And of those, most of those dont pump out 60FPS at 1920x1080, so get ready for a lil motion sickness on those pans.

My TV does 1366x768, so i'll just use the first one as reference, regardless of who i subscribe to.

My god is that your flash or is that the bright light at the pearly gates.

Dude what happened? LOL, where did you go? I know how it feels, you are stuck with some kind of commitment or you like the Sunday Ticket and you want so badly to convince yourself that it is OK, that there is not much of a difference. But I chose quality over quantity and have FiOS now.

The sad thing is that E* is only better compared to D*. I wonder what they will do when D* has more of those HD-Lite channels and E* has to play catch up, maybe they will do the same thing.

I had fios here in Tampa but got rid of it b/c I was getting macro-blocking effects when watching high motion/light events. I told Fios that if they could not tell me my avg bit rate then I was going to cancel. I canceled. I have a 92" HD projector and it just didn't pay to have if all I was going to see in high intensity scenes was a low grade mpg movie!

I had fios here in Tampa but got rid of it b/c I was getting macro-blocking effects when watching high motion/light events. I told Fios that if they could not tell me my avg bit rate then I was going to cancel. I canceled. I have a 92" HD projector and it just didn't pay to have if all I was going to see in high intensity scenes was a low grade mpg movie!

Buyer beware!

FIOS should show less macroblocking compared to low bitrate satellite providers and even some cable companies.

We can bitch and moan but its too late for us HD enthusiasts to ever expect high quality, high bitrate broadcasts here in America.

...its too late for us HD enthusiasts to ever expect high quality, high bitrate broadcasts here in America.

I hope it's not! There are at least a few of us HD enthusiasts out here and, as I posted in a local thread, our day's coming, albeit it may be years down the road.

To support my contention that true HD quality will someday win out, this evening I'm watching the Mets/Yankees HD game on D* ESPN-HD. My wife, who doesn't remotely begin to share my interest in HD and if I'm not careful will watch programs in SD even when she knows they're available in HD, shouts out while reading a book: "This game isn't in HD, the fans' faces are blurred!"

I didn't even bother to go into my HD Lite spiel and just continued watching the game while muttering under my breath, "I know what you mean!"

I hope it's not! There are at least a few of us HD enthusiasts out here and, as I posted in a local thread, our day's coming, albeit it may be years down the road.

To support my contention that true HD quality will someday win out, this evening I'm watching the Mets/Yankees HD game on D* ESPN-HD. My wife, who doesn't remotely begin to share my interest in HD and if I'm not careful will watch programs in SD even when she knows they're available in HD, shouts out while reading a book: "This game isn't in HD, the fans' faces are blurred!"

I didn't even bother to go into my HD Lite spiel and just continued watching the game while muttering under my breath, "I know what you mean!"

I know ill get flamed for this, but my guests reaction to the same game was total opposite. Everyone thought it looked great.

I know ill get flamed for this, but my guests reaction to the same game was total opposite. Everyone thought it looked great.

If one has guests over and they say this D* HD telecast looks great, then if one fully agrees, one has to feel pretty satisfied. If that's the case, I'd ignore the visual exhibits earlier in this thread, let the true HD fanatics wallow in our rantings, and I'd enjoy a lot of HD sports on D* looming ahead, not ever looking back!

But I have to ask -- remaining civil and not flaming anyone -- it looks great compared to what? Compared to D*'s telecast of the same game on non-HD Channel 206? If that's the case, then I totally agree.

I just know that D*'s HD telecasts picked up in my house aren't nearly as good PQ-wise as for example TW Cable in the Albany, NY system or Comcast in the Staunton, Virginia system. And it's not my equipment because fairly often in the past and very very very infrequently today I'll get OTA HD reception verging on having the WOW factor.

Also, when an NFL HD game is on my DNS Channel 80 or 88 and I can also pick up the same game OTA even on a multicasting station, the latter is always superior in PQ.

Quote:

Are there any other options in your area? Or is cable just as bad?

Yes, Comcast Cable is available and the aforementioned HD PQ is really good -- at least in Staunton 10 miles away. My hesitancy is it used to be -- as once again I shake uncontrollably in typing this -- it used to be up until a few months ago, gasp, Adelphia. In addition, I'm out in the country and I don't know about these 15 year old underground cable trunk lines.

Lastly, I'm an NFL nut and between OTA and D* DNS -- not even ever having ST -- I can often see upwards of 6 games a Sunday total in HD and often 8 or 9 overall. So I'm waiting for MPEG-4 and if D* HD PQ doesn't substantially improve, I'm tempted to zap D* and return to cable. No sense in ranting about HD Lite for the rest of my life in order to have access to a mere 3 or 4 more football games each Sunday in the fall.

If one has guests over and they say this D* HD telecast looks great, then if one fully agrees, one has to feel pretty satisfied. If that's the case, I'd ignore the visual exhibits earlier in this thread, let the true HD fanatics wallow in our rantings, and I'd enjoy a lot of HD sports on D* looming ahead, not ever looking back!

But I have to ask -- remaining civil and not flaming anyone -- it looks great compared to what? Compared to D*'s telecast of the same game on non-HD Channel 206? If that's the case, then I totally agree.

I just know that D*'s HD telecasts picked up in my house aren't nearly as good PQ-wise as for example TW Cable in the Albany, NY system or Comcast in the Staunton, Virginia system. And it's not my equipment because fairly often in the past and very very very infrequently today I'll get OTA HD reception verging on having the WOW factor.

Also, when an NFL HD game is on my DNS Channel 80 or 88 and I can also pick up the same game OTA even on a multicasting station, the latter is always superior in PQ.

Yes, Comcast Cable is available and the aforementioned HD PQ is really good -- at least in Staunton 10 miles away. My hesitancy is it used to be -- as once again I shake uncontrollably in typing this -- it used to be up until a few months ago, gasp, Adelphia. In addition, I'm out in the country and I don't know about these 15 year old underground cable trunk lines.

Lastly, I'm an NFL nut and between OTA and D* DNS -- not even ever having ST -- I can often see upwards of 6 games a Sunday total in HD and often 8 or 9 overall. So I'm waiting for MPEG-4 and if D* HD PQ doesn't substantially improve, I'm tempted to zap D* and return to cable. No sense in ranting about HD Lite for the rest of my life in order to have access to a mere 3 or 4 more football games each Sunday in the fall.

I appreciate the way you worded it, first time i havent been called a raving lunatic for saying that i am satisfied with it. My comparison is done with Cable HD, Dish HD, and even OTA. The pictures above do not represent what i am seeing. On either provider.

Yeah the sports is a sticking point for alot of people. Thats the main reason i added Direct. I already had and still have dish.

I have D* and have to agree with people's opinions here. Some HD channels are so compressed it looks horrible. Seems like HDNet is one of the worst while others look good.

What does everyone think this new MPEG 4 compression will do for PQ? Can we expect an improvement over all for HD channels? I sure hope because they have FIOS in my area and I am tempted to switch.

One thing I don't understand is how people say cable is better. It must be different from area to area because in the Dallas area former Comcast now Time Warner is terrible. Every person I see with cable always has the worst most compressed looking picture. I just think the cable strength must not be able to support the # of subscribers in the Dallas area.

Have things changed between the two sat. providers? Is the Dish picture quality still better than D*? I hope so, because as if the 29th I'll be jumping ship to The Dish due to a boatload of more stations for LESS money.

Have things changed between the two sat. providers? Is the Dish picture quality still better than D*? I hope so, because as if the 29th I'll be jumping ship to The Dish due to a boatload of more stations for LESS money.

Unfortunatly, due to technical changes it's no longer possible to look at the transport streams or grab screen captures of each provider, so comparisons are based on viewer perception of what the HD images look like.

At this time forum consensus is that DirecTV has marginally better HD image quality than Dish Network.