I am not here to have some confirmation or share any experience that may confuse you. Trust me or not, I don't care.I just need more knowledge and I know that here this is possible to find it.

There is no more to do in my experience. There is total completeness, total stability. Now, I see that everything begin to dissolve gradually but very slowly.I have done what has been necessary to do in the practice needed to get to Rainbow Body.

I just would like to have the kind of knowledge that says that Rainbow Body is gradual. I am not talking about the shrinking at death, but Rainbow body during life without knowing death.

I will really appreciate if you have this kind of serious knowledge about it.

So a week ago you were asking us to help you get acquainted with Dzogchen and find a teacher. This week your telling us that you have achieved the Rainbow Body. It sounds like its been a productive week. You may be the very fisrt Westerner who ever made this accomplishment. Plan on writing a book or anything?I do have one question, if you have completed the path of Dzogchen up to its final fruit, why would you need anymore knowledge?

Sorry if I am insulting, but this is a perfect example of what can happen to people if they try to practice Dzogchen without a real teacher.

I just don't know what else to do, I have no more insights about what to do. I will try tomorrow to look at the sky but I have already done that and I realized the Crown of Awareness as all Thigle appearing in the sky or light as my natural state of being from the top of the head. Rigpa has been completely stabilized a little bit before that, that has allowed me to go further into the practice of Thogal.

You are talking about experience and realization. I am not very good with using words, I know that experience are temporary and that here, few are taking seriously people. This is done, unchanging. The Heart and the Crown of Awareness are obvious and unchanging. The stability I got from that is outstanding and no one is able to harm me in any way.As you said, it has been a really fruitful week, I have practiced in every moment relying on my insights going through everything. But I have already knew Rigpa so I didn't need transmission and if you want to know more, I see where Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is stuck, I can see this.

I am not here to convince anyone, I am here to get what I want, knowledge. I haven't reach the Rainbow Body, that is why I am here, I just know that nothing can be done in my experience and Thogal can't be practiced anymore, so the Rainbow Body should be inevitable. I will try tomorrow what I can do with Thigle from the Crown.

That's true that teacher like Chogyal Namkhai Norbu would be very helpful to tell me what's going on here.

What I say is that when I hear and see Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, I see that he has some subtle suffering that I went through. He can't help me except with his knowledge. I have still really subtle suffering but the stability of the Crown burn away gradually such suffering. This is what I am talking about with gradual resolution. The body has completely changed.

I hope you understand that from what I can tell most of the folks here at Dharma Wheel do take each other seriously. We respect each other (most of the time), and most of all we respect our teachers and our practice. There are many here who have been practicing at a very serious level for decades, some have even spent years of their lives in retreat. I personally take Dzogchen very seriously, which is why I have a very hard time taking anything that you say seriously at all. You should know that nobody who practices let alone has accomplished Thogal would ever talk about it so openly. There are very specific reasons why this is so. We politely told you earlier that this is a subject that is not appropriate for this forum. You continue to talk about it, now you say that you have accomplished the practice after admitting that you have never recieved transmission for the practice. I am sorry, but this is wrong. You should really try to understand this. I sent you several PMs trying to help you find a teacher and explain what little I know about Dzogchen. I am sorry if you are above all of that, but- no teacher, no transmission, no Dzogchen. I wish you a very good night. I hope you find the answers you are looking for. Oh, and what you are practicing is not Thogal. Good luck.

My friend,that you are asking this question at all shows that you are not at the level you think you are. Those that are in fact at the level you think you are at Know without a doubt what needs to be done. I think that everybody here has at one time or another has fooled themselves into thinking that they "get it" on one level or another. So, no judgement or ridicule here, just let go of what it is that you think you have accomplished and find an authentic teacher that you have a connection with. At the very least find a real teacher that can authenticate what it is that you think you have accomplished. I truly hope that you can hear this. Best wishes to you.

"But if you know how to observe yourself, you will discover your real nature, the primordial state, the state of Guruyoga, and then all will become clear because you will have discovered everything"-Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche

CrawfordHollow wrote:...I sent you several PMs trying to help you find a teacher and explain what little I know about Dzogchen. I am sorry if you are above all of that, but- no teacher, no transmission, no Dzogchen. I wish you a very good night. I hope you find the answers you are looking for. Oh, and what you are practicing is not Thogal. Good luck.

I too sent a cautionary PM. I'm sorry you aren't endowed with the acumen to heed warning, Open Intelligence. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. You've been advised by myself and others to suspend your endeavors and seek a qualified teacher, so you can't plead ignorance. Hard to watch you hang yourself like this but seems you can't save others from themselves. William Blake once said “The fool who persists in his folly will become wise.” I hope for your sake he's right.

CrawfordHollow wrote:I hope you understand that from what I can tell most of the folks here at Dharma Wheel do take each other seriously. We respect each other (most of the time), and most of all we respect our teachers and our practice. There are many here who have been practicing at a very serious level for decades, some have even spent years of their lives in retreat. I personally take Dzogchen very seriously, which is why I have a very hard time taking anything that you say seriously at all. You should know that nobody who practices let alone has accomplished Thogal would ever talk about it so openly. There are very specific reasons why this is so. We politely told you earlier that this is a subject that is not appropriate for this forum. You continue to talk about it, now you say that you have accomplished the practice after admitting that you have never recieved transmission for the practice. I am sorry, but this is wrong. You should really try to understand this. I sent you several PMs trying to help you find a teacher and explain what little I know about Dzogchen. I am sorry if you are above all of that, but- no teacher, no transmission, no Dzogchen. I wish you a very good night. I hope you find the answers you are looking for. Oh, and what you are practicing is not Thogal. Good luck.

Thank you.

I had a teacher and a transmission somehow, but I have done mostly through my insights the discovery of Rigpa. All the masters of Dzogchen I have seen through, only Chogyal Namkhai Norbu is interesting. I can't receive any transmission from him because nothing absolutely relieving happen. And I know perfectly when transmission happen, here nothing, because I got a strong sense of stability of Rigpa. Dzogchen is Rigpa, once you have been introduced to it and you rely on its wisdom you know the teaching of Dzogchen.Thogal. Do you know what Thigle is? I haven't received clear knowledge on the practice of Thogal from a Master, that's true. But what can you do from Thigle when this is your view no matter where you look effortlessly? What can be done when Thigle is your identity?

If you don't take me seriously, it is probable because of my humility and my lack of knowledge. The reasons you don't share for why we shouldn't speak openly about Thogal, I seem to understand them but there is a point where certainty allows for such sharing before I am going died or gone for whatever reasons.

Last edited by Open Intelligence on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

Fa Dao wrote:My friend,that you are asking this question at all shows that you are not at the level you think you are. Those that are in fact at the level you think you are at Know without a doubt what needs to be done. I think that everybody here has at one time or another has fooled themselves into thinking that they "get it" on one level or another. So, no judgement or ridicule here, just let go of what it is that you think you have accomplished and find an authentic teacher that you have a connection with. At the very least find a real teacher that can authenticate what it is that you think you have accomplished. I truly hope that you can hear this. Best wishes to you.

That's the problem here. You think that you know what people think through your knowledge and analysis of your conceptual mind.I am not here to receive confirmation as I see clearly what's going on here and I don't like it. I am here for knowledge.

I am no more thinking anything, it is not a possibility or a capacity. Thinking that "I get it" can't be done, realizing that nothing can be more accomplished is my reality.

Inge wrote:I find it strange that on a buddhist board, one of the worst things you can do, is to claim that buddhist methods actually works.

Ha! Indeed.

That said, I don't think there is much posters here can do except direct the OP to someone they feel might be able to help. Whether he is confused about the depth of his realisation or in fact on the brink of rainbow body, it is stuff that can only really be addressed by someone who has been there and progressed from there.

"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hellI would endure it for myriad lifetimes As your companion in practice" --- Gandavyuha Sutra

Open Intelligence wrote:What I say is that when I hear and see Chogyal Namkhai Norbu, I see that he has some subtle suffering that I went through. He can't help me except with his knowledge. I have still really subtle suffering but the stability of the Crown burn away gradually such suffering. This is what I am talking about with gradual resolution. The body has completely changed.