I didn't in any way mock Alex's beliefs, just his opinion that he has the responsibility to try and force them on other people. Which is bullsh*t.

I am sure he would be upset if he were in a land with a Muslim majority, and was accosted at every turn with Islamic fundamentalists forcibly foisting their beliefs on him. But at least he wouldn't have to worry about gay marriage there. I believe it is a beheading offense still, isn't it?

Hey Dean, forgot to mention yesterday that I replied to you in the atheist thread; didn't know if you had seen it as yet. I don't really have time to spend on here tonight but I wanted to let you know I had replied.

First of all, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God hates homosexuals. It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf. All those who believe, homosexual or heterosexual, will also be forgiven: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Secondly,

Dictionary wrote:

Objective (adj): Having actual existence or reality.

Yes, I do know what the word means, I'm just using a different definition than the one you're thinking of. I never said that everyone who makes a truth claim has an objective perspective. I said that religious and moral truth claims are objective because they don't deal with subjective criteria that differ from person to person but with reality.

/QUOTE]I am sure he would be upset if he were in a land with a Muslim majority, and was accosted at every turn with Islamic fundamentalists forcibly foisting their beliefs on him. But at least he wouldn't have to worry about gay marriage there. I believe it is a beheading offense still, isn't it?

First of all, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God hates homosexuals. It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf. All those who believe, homosexual or heterosexual, will also be forgiven: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

First of all, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God hates homosexuals. It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf. All those who believe, homosexual or heterosexual, will also be forgiven: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

Secondly,

Dictionary wrote:

Objective (adj): Having actual existence or reality.

Yes, I do know what the word means, I'm just using a different definition than the one you're thinking of. I never said that everyone who makes a truth claim has an objective perspective. I said that religious and moral truth claims are objective because they don't deal with subjective criteria that differ from person to person but with reality.

That's the worse misused of "objective/subjective" I've seen for awhile. I assumed you would have been aware that you cannot mix the differing definitions of words on a whim because the various meanings are only applicable within the contexts they are being used. It seems I was wrong.

First of all, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God hates homosexuals. It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf. All those who believe, homosexual or heterosexual, will also be forgiven: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

First of all, nowhere in Scripture does it say that God hates homosexuals. It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf. All those who believe, homosexual or heterosexual, will also be forgiven: "There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus."

TRUE DAT!!!

So let them marry under the eyes of god if that is their wish then.

Even if there is a god, (not dismissing it outright, but not a believer - I'm one of those fence-riders), the universe is pretty freaking huge and I would think any such god would have a lot of other issues to worry about than whether John and Bob are getting hitched or doing the nasty. Even if the Earth was really the center of the universe (a rather egocentric view in my perspective) there are still a lot of other problems here on Earth that should concern god more than homosexuality, e.g. war, murder, disease, poverty, etc., etc. If any god were so homophobic (I would hope a god would be advanced enough to be beyond such bigotry) that it was more concerned about homosexual marriage than say war and poverty, then that's not a god that I want any part of.

I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?

It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf.

But what is there to condemn about it if that's just the way the guy is? Sorry, but to me, that sounds very regressive and it would have to be coming from a text written thousands of years back. If one side can take shelter under religion to judge others in a very prejudiced way, the other side is entitled to take shelter under freedom of expression to pay right back in the same coin. I cannot and will not accept religious belief as a sound reason to judge another person. Religious belief is for the person himself to judge his own actions as to whether he has or hasn't incurred the wrath of his God, not impose on others and pooh pooh their choices.

It says that He condemns their behavior. There's a big difference. God also condemns my own pride, lust, and selfishness, but I believe that I am forgiven because Jesus Christ died on my behalf.

But what is there to condemn about it if that's just the way the guy is? Sorry, but to me, that sounds very regressive and it would have to be coming from a text written thousands of years back. If one side can take shelter under religion to judge others in a very prejudiced way, the other side is entitled to take shelter under freedom of expression to pay right back in the same coin. I cannot and will not accept religious belief as a sound reason to judge another person. Religious belief is for the person himself to judge his own actions as to whether he has or hasn't incurred the wrath of his God, not impose on others and pooh pooh their choices.

Interesting point that raises an issue I've always been puzzled by i.e. assuming that sexual orientation is a given, and not a choice, wouldn't the idea of homosexuality as a sin become a spurious one? There is clearly a choice involved in secular crimes like murder, rape, arson, stealing etc and also religious sins like greed, gluttony, lust etc but can the same be true for homosexuality? Listening to religious types I often get the impression they have judged people guilty of nothing more than being sincere without any chance of a fair trial: Imagine being a defense lawyer for that poor Devil:

He was a
murderer from the beginning (John 8:44 - just after the autoerotic guitar solo)

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