After posting there, and realizing it was up to 88 pages, and had derailed several times through, I thought this would be a more appropriate place for such a TOME of information on overclocking using the M3A32-MVP Deluxe motherboard along with a Phenom 9850BE CPU. - There's enough info in this to actually be used with any chipset/CPU combo, but some of the BIOS options will differ from the M3A32-MVP Deluxe to the other chipset series coming out.

This is a TON of information collected and discovered over the course of testing 4 Phenom 9850BE's that is sure to help some of you with any AM2/AM2+ setup, as well as my BIOS options for the M3A32-MVP Deluxe.

DISCLAIMER: This tome of information is intended to be a guide, used as a template for YOUR overclocking adventure - in no way shall I be liable for any malfunction or damage as a result of using any of this information.
Everything in this post is from my own personal experience embellished with links and facts from other's personal experiences. It was complied from 42 pages of hand-written notes spanning 4 different stepping Phenom 9850BE processors, along with prior knowledge of AMD architecture...nothing here is hearsay, it's all real-world experience of what has proven to be an effective overclock for MY current setup.

IN NO WAY do I mean for this guide to be followed to the letter - ALL components, even given the same exact stepping/lot #, sequential serial #'s, etc., will overclock the same.
There is no guarantee. You paid for parts that will perform at their advertised specifications, and what you're doing by overclocking is getting *more* than what you paid for (hence the 'no guarantees' part.)
What may work for one individual may or may not work for the next...even given the same exact components...just always remember this...sometimes you have to settle for less than what you originally expected - the way to make it 'ok' in your head is to remember the 'no guarantees' thing...you've already got 'something' for 'nothing' if you've overclocked *at all*.

In overclocking, there are inherent risks. The very fact that you're playing with voltages and cycles translates into playing with fire - literally. More voltage = more heat. I can't stress enough the importance of proper temperature monitoring and some real good CPU cooling as well as excellent case cooling.

Here's AMD's 'secret' overclocking formula (not discovered by me, but rewritten by me to be understandable by the masses: This equation is for the Phenom/AM2/AM2+ architecture, it's a bit different from the older (pre-K8) architecture in that our HT and NB are now a multiple of the FSB, as well as the divisor ratio is no longer rounded up when landing on a fraction (decimal) of a whole integer.

AMD Overclocking Equation:(CPU Multi) * (FSB) = (CPU Freq)
(CPU Multi) / (Memory Divider) = (Divisor Ratio)
(CPU Freq) / (Divisor Ratio) = (RAM MHz) (* 2 = DDR MHz)
(NB Multi) * (FSB) = (NB Freq)
(HT Multi) * (FSB) = (HT Freq) **
**note: the HT Multi is usually shown as a MHz option rather than a multiplier of the FSB, but in fact, it is a default of 10X the FSB
Also of note is that your HT *MUST* be < or = the resulting NB Frequency or you will not be stable.
Memory Dividers for use in the equation above
I have included every conceivable way that these dividers can be displayed for every AM2/AM2+ BIOS. Use the DECIMAL value in the equation above and use one of the corresponding values for your specific BIOS. I've only included the 800MHz and the 1066MHz values, as this is what the majority of us are using.

There are footnotes collected from my adventures at the bottom describing some of the more obscure functions and some of the hidden options. Read them carefully, test each config for yourself and decide what works for you.

About MONITORING YOUR TEMPS:
ASUS has a nifty little utility called PCProbe2 that comes on the CD that came with the motherboard... USE IT. I also found that CoreTemp gives a very close reading with the M3A32-MVP Deluxe.
If your temps at *any* time reach into the mid 50*C range, STOP and readdress your CPU and case cooling before continuing any further. (High 60*C is the upper limit, but we don’t need to push it, right?)
Just ensure that you're using *something* to monitor your temps while spending any time in the overclocking arena!

There are loads of good aftermarket CPU cooling options out there...I personally have the ThermalRight Ultra-120 Extreme, and I'm very pleased with not only it's performance, but it's sound level as well (with 2 Scythe S-Flex fans).

Also of importance is your case cooling. Every case I've ever had IS NOT pre-setup with what turns out to be the most efficient fan arrangement. It's up to YOU to decide what fan needs to be where, which direction it should be (pulling air IN or pushing it OUT) and what make/model/CFM/RPM you need. Just be aware that without fresh, cool air coming IN the case, all you've got is warmed air to circulate across your CPU's HS/f, and without adequate EXHAUST, you've really just shot yourself in the foot again - BOTH are paramount to a decent overclock (I really can't stress this enough - MOST people miss case cooling and concentrate solely on their CPU HS/f)

All in all, by the very nature of overclocking, you need to know that you're taking a risk of exposing specific components to more voltage/heat/cycles than they're designed to take, which *could* or *may not* lead to their early or eventual demise.

I'm sure most people that will read through all that crap already understand the risks...it's just pertinent for me to say...I can't be held liable for any kind of overclock gone wrong.

Alrighty then...

Some here's some terminology that we're going to be familiar with by the end of this post:

TERMINOLOGY and BACKGROUND INFO:

AMD's HT: HyperTransport (HT), formerly known as Lightning Data Transport (LDT), is a bidirectional serial/parallel high-bandwidth, low-latency computer bus. The HyperTransport Technology Consortium is in charge of promoting and developing HyperTransport technology. The technology is used by AMD and Transmeta in x86 processors, PMC-Sierra and Broadcom in MIPS microprocessors, NVIDIA, Via, SiS, ULi/ALi, and AMD in PC chipsets, Apple Computer and HP in Desktops and notebooks, HP, Sun, IBM, and IWill in servers, Cray in supercomputers, and Cisco Systems in routers.

HyperTransport runs at 200-5200 MHz (compared to PCI at either 33 or 66 MHz). It is also a DDR or "double-data-rate" bus, meaning it sends data on both the rising and falling edges of the 1400 MHz clock signal. This allows for a maximum data rate of 2600 MTransfers/s each direction. The frequency is auto-negotiated, but can be changed via a multiplier, which is a multiple of your FSB.

HyperTransport supports auto-negotiated bus widths, from 2 (bidirectional serial, 1 bit each way) to 32-bit (16 each way) busses are allowed. The full-sized, full-speed 32-bit bus has a transfer rate of 22,400 MByte/s, making it much faster than existing standards. Busses of various widths can be mixed together in a single application, which allows for high speed busses between main memory and the CPU, and lower speed busses to peripherals, as appropriate. The technology also has much lower latency than other solutions.

So, in a nutshell, HT is the bandwidth used between your memory and CPU and the CPU and other peripherals.

AMD's HTT: (HyperTransport Technology (HTT) - I know, confusing!!!) The A64 has no FSB (or Front Side Bus) as we know it. That's because the memory controller is built-in to the CPU rather than being on the motherboard. Basically, HyperTransport replaces the FSB.
So raising the HTT is how we raise the CPU cycles...it's the amount of communication a CPU can push in a given amount of time.
This has reverted (in terminology only) back to FSB with the new boards and new BIOS, probably to make it easier and less confusing. So, HTT = FSB on the new AM2/AM2+ boards.

CPU Multiplier: The CPU multiplier is one way for processors to run much faster than the clock speed of the motherboard or RAM allows. For every tick of the front side bus (FSB) clock, a frequency multiplier causes the CPU to perform x cycles, where x is the multiplier.
For example, if the FSB has a clock speed of 200 MHz and the CPU multiplier is 10x, then the processor would run at 2000MHz or 2.0GHz.
One downside of the multiplier is that it only increases CPU speed. In the previous example there is a multiplier of 10x, but RAM still runs at 200 MHz, so the computer can only access memory at 1/10th of the processor speed, 200 MHz, the speed of the FSB. Because of this, many overclockers prefer to have lower multipliers with higher FSBs.
With the Phenom systems (currently using the 790X and 790FX chipsets) - the CPU Multiplier is really the best way to increase your CPU Frequency. Adding FSB to an already high CPU Multiplier can improve CPU Frequency, but most times leads to instability without lots of voltage to help it out.

Memory Divider: One popular way of overclocking your processor is to increase your FSB. This increases the processor bus, and memory bus equally. In the event that your processor still has the ability to increase in speed, but your memory is maxed out, you would use the memory divider to slow down your memory by running it at a fraction of it's rated speed. Example: You want to run your FSB at 300Mhz, but your memory maxes at 1066Mhz. Set the FSB to 300Mhz, and the memory divider to 1/2, and the memory will run at 533Mhz. (primitive example, but you should get the idea) – the point here is that running a memory divider *literally* runs your memory at a fraction of its original speed…this is a good thing as we’ll learn later.

FINDING YOUR MAXIMUM VALUES:
It's extremely important to find each of your component's maximum values before attempting any relevant overclock. Without such knowledge, it's all just a stab in the dark, but with the knowledge of where everything caps out, you have an excellent idea of what you can expect from each individual component.

Now then, here is what I do when beginning a new overclock:
(We're going to try to find the limit for your motherboard's FSB first)

Begin by raising the FSB (CPU Frequency) in 5 - 10MHz increments - rebooting to POST (Power On Self Test - it's the very first screen of text in black and white that you see when you first start your computer from an OFF state) in between each change - until it wont POST (Power On Self Test) - note the number as you've just found your motherboard's maximum FSB. This is important, as your motherboard really is a major determining factor on just how far you can overclock your CPU/RAM and other peripherals. I have found my M3A32-MVP Deluxe is capable of 286MHz FSB with all 4 Phenom 9850BE's that I've tested...I know that it would be different for a different architecture CPU.
Drop it down to a comfortable stable level decided on from the equation above.
(yep, we're going to be using that equation *a lot*, so just get used to it!!!)

CPU Multiplier:
Begin with your RAM at it's lowest setting, your HT at it's lowest setting, your NB at it's lowest setting and your FSB at 200, then begin raising your CPU Multiplier 1 step at a time, rebooting between each change until it fails POST. This is going to be the maximum CPU Multiplier that you're going to be able to use.

NorthBridge: You can adjust your NB frequency using a multiplier in the BIOS - remember it's a multiple of the FSB. I've found mine to be completely stable at 2600MHz. You'll have to experiment with the NB voltage to find your full-speed maximum.

HT Link Speed Remembering that it's actually a 10X multiple of your FSB, increasing the FSB also increases your HT. I've found mine stable at over 2400MHz, but in conjunction with the NB, it's stability is capped at 2400MHz when the NB is at 2400MHz or higher.
The secret for getting a higher MHz throughput out of the HT is because of the chipset and the options for it.
Higher voltage helps in the stability for higher bandwidth - But you've GOT to pay attention to your motherboard temp now! Mine's sitting at 38*C right now, and doesn't really get much higher - this is due to adequate case cooling, which I suggest you definitely follow up on!!! (since the Northbridge on the M3A32-MVP Deluxe is passive, it really relies on good airflow around it to keep it cool! - if at any point you feel uncomfortable about the NB reaching into the mid 40*C range, you may want to check into an active cooling, or perhaps just removing the HS assembly and replacing the ASUS thermal gunk with a nice fresh layer of Arctic Silver5 or Ceramique) along with using the crap copper heatsink that came with the board...even though the memory cooling part is useless, the extra copper fins do help to dissipate a lot of the heat generated by the NB.

You can begin playing with the equation above now that you know *most* of the variables and what all your individual component's maximum values are.
If your temps are good (~50*C or below at FULL LOAD) and your motherboard temps are good (38-44*C) then you can start experimenting with other voltages (NB/HT/PCI PLL, etc.)

(this really becomes nothing more than a balancing act at this point - and it takes time...have patience, take breaks - if you get too frustrated, stop for 10-15 minutes and do something else in a different room...I'm not kidding! I've been soooo close to putting my foot all the way through my case that it's not even funny, so I *know* what I'm talking about - TAKE BREAKS! - oh, and try not to drink alot of coffee, it only will agitate you and make it very aggravating!)

If you've made it this far, you've just found a *comfortable* level from which to work...now the hard part begins!

RAM Overclocking:
Raise ALL your RAM latencies to 3-4 notches (where possible) above stock SPD for the speed you've decided to run.
Leave your voltage where the manufacturer recommends it (don't go higher - the BIOS text goes red for a reason!) - Later on, you can adjust it up to 2.50V (as a MAX), but you will not need it to be even .01 higher - The point of diminishing returns happens when you've exhausted all overclocking attempts and it will not increase no matter how much voltage you throw at it.
Now, starting with the SECOND one (tRAS), drop it one notch and reboot to POST (and I *mean* [1] notch at a time - you do more than that, you'll find yourself resetting your CMOS twice a much as you're already going to!!!!), repeating until it will not pass the POST, clear the CMOS if you have to, and raise that one value one notch.
Do the same for ALL the latencies (rebooting to POST in between EACH AND EVERY CHANGE) - leaving tREF at 127.5ns (this will help with stability at higher MHz)

This is a *very* long and arduous process, but the benefit will be more than worth the effort you put into it!
Once you've made it this far, try changing the CMD (Command Rate) Timing to 1T and see if it boots all the way into Windows - if not, change it back to 2T. (most sticks won't run at a 1T CMD Rate on AM2/AM2+, so don't feel bad - it was worth the try!)

After you've found all the lowest latencies for the *comfortable* overclock, you can begin to see if there's any more...
By raising the CPU voltage, (NEVER HIGHER THAN 1.55V) you can increase stability in your overclock - but it comes at a great price - HEAT. If your CPU gets above 50*C under full load (should be in the 35-42*C range for idle - but load temps are the most important!), you need better cooling, or need to settle on an overclock that utilizes less voltage (which means less FSB and/or higher multiplier and maybe even a different memory divider)

Here are some links to software that you'll need...you probably don't need it all as a few are redundant and overkill, but here they are nonetheless.

I'd DEFINITELY pick up OCCT, Orthos, SuperPI, CPU RightMark and RMMA from the Benchmarking section, *everything* from the Monitoring section, then Memset and AOD from the MISC section.Benchmarking Software:OCCT PerestroïkaOrthos StressPRIME 2004SuperPI (use for quick and dirty bench tests to discover if what you did was faster or slower)SiSoft SandraCPU RightMarkRMMARAMTesterwPrimeMaxPi is a newer version of SuperPi coded for multiple core processors, and a relatively new addition to this list - it gives some interesting results, but a certain drawback is that it's written in Russian...(personally, I will use it once in a while, but when testing if what I changed in BIOS is better or worse for number crunching, I'll still use SuperPi - it's quicker and gives results in a language I can understand!)
and then of course the FutureMark line of PC and GPU benchmark products - but I'd only get PCMark Vantage for this...and really, only if you want to. (or optionally, 3DMark Vantage, but then you're scoring more than just your CPU...)

Below is my current overclock using BIOS 1102 - again, DO NOT just input these values into your own, either you'll not be stable (BEST case scenario) or you'll fry something altogether - you'll need to do the legwork yourself for YOUR components.

Chipset
..Primary Video Controller [PCIE GFX0-GFX2-GPP] - this setting identifies the top blue slot as primary. GFX2 refers to the top black slot (Port #03)
..PCI Express Configuration
..GFX Dual Slot Configuration [Enabled]
..GFX Dual Slot Configuration [Disabled]
..Peer-to-Peer among GFX/GFX2 [Disabled] this setting is for running cards connected to the top blue and black slots on equal status for issuing requests and commands
..GPP Slots Power Limit, W [25] (for those of us running ATi cards, set the Power Limit at 75
..Port #02 & #03 Features
....Gen2 High Speed Mode [Disabled] found this was the best setting for me according to 3DMark06 - may need to enable for CF
....Link ASPM [Disabled] - ASPM stands for Active State Power Mangement
....Slot Power Limit, W [25] Maximum wattage that can be supplied through the slot (0-250) - set to 75 for most ATi cards
..Port#04 through #10
....Gen2 High Speed Mode [Disabled]
....Link ASPM [Disabled]
..Port#11 Features Bottom blue slot
....Gen2 High Speed Mode [Disabled] - again, may need to be enabled for CF
....Link ASPM [Disabled]
....Link Width [x16]
....Slot Power Limit, W [25] - set to 75 for most ATi cards
..NB-SB Port Features
..NB-SB Link ASPM [Disabled]
..NP NB-SB VC1 Traffic Support [Enabled] (virtual channel 1) helps with Isochronous Flow-Control Mode or [Disabled] if not using Isochronous Flow Control, 2xCLK or UnitID Clumping * see footnotes

Hyper Transport Configuration
..Isochronous Flow-Control Mode [Enabled] or [Disabled] if not used in conjunction with the other variables * see footnotes
..HT Link Tristate [CAD/CTL/CLK] or [Disabled] if not used in conjunction with the other variables * see footnotes
..UnitID Clumping [UnitID 2/3&B/C] or [Disabled] if not used in conjunction with the other variables * see footnotes
..2xLCLK Mode [Disabled]

USB Configuration
..USB Functions [Enabled]
..USB 2.0 Controller [Enabled]
..USB 2.0 Controller Mode [HiSpeed]
..BIOS EHCI Hand-Off [Disabled] - Windows takes care of this for you
..Legacy USB Support [Auto] - no one uses any 1.0 USB anymore, but can cause the system to crash if disabled, Auto will automagically shut-down in the event no 1.0 USB device is found

1) There is a small bug in every version of the M3A32-MVP Deluxe BIOS that UNDER-volts your input. At 1.3V in BIOS, read with any software application (not including AOD) - it will be 1.28V, and the difference increases with the increase in voltage.
2) Isochronous Flow-Control Mode: This has to do with how information is passed between the CPU, the GPU and the RAM along the NorthBridge. It has been a part of the BIOS for HT since AGP 8X, but the option to enable or disable it is a fairly recent addition. When this option is enabled, it assigns the information a number, in the order it was received. Each bit of information is then processed in that order along the route. In toher words, there is no loss of information, but the processing in this orderly manner has drawbacks. If you choose to enable this feature, you will also need to enable UnitID Clumping and then under PCI-E COnfiguraiton and the NB-SB section of the BIOS, VC1 needs to be enabled as well.
3) UnitID Clumping: Simply put, it accounts for not all devices being equally quick at processing information. This allows each device to support a longer waiting line. VC1 accounts for a major drawback of Isochronous Flow-Control mode in that the flow control mode does not allow any information to break line. Everything must wait it's turn. Therefore, if one piece of info is intended for the CPU and in front of it is info the for GPU, the info for the GPU needs to be processed before the CPU info is processed; plus, if there is a waiting line of info to be processed onthe GPU, the CPU info is held up all that much longer. VC1 comes to the rescue by letting the CPU info break line, bypassing the GPU info jam to join the CPU info queue.
4) Tristating (in all forms): Tristating is a power saving feature in addition to ASPM linking. Whatever sections you want to enable Tristate in, you reduce the energy needed to run that area, but the downside is that you also reduce that area's performance.
5) 2xLCLK: This setting only affects HT 3.0, so Phenom's may benefit from it while with Athlon's, it just does not apply. LCLK stands for Latency Clock. The 2x means that instead of one full bandwidth HT Link you are requesting two half bandwidth HT Links. For performance, at times it is better to have a two lane highway; traffic flowing in both directions at the same time along the same strip of asphalt at 50mph, than it is to have a single lane highway along the same strip of asphalt with traffic lights controlling the directional flow at 100mph.

Hopefully, there's enough information there to get some of you going, and certainly enough to read more than once, pulling something new each time it's read.

Good luck to all! If there is any information that needs to be changed, added or removed, please pm me and I will take care of it.

Psychlone

EDIT: Please don't quote this entire post when asking a question, only quote the part that is relevant - this post is too long to see carried in quotes over and over again...

I noticed that your FSB (210) is relatively low. Is it more beneficial to get the multiplier on the CPU up and keep this lower, or better to get your FSB up at the expense of a little bit of CPU? In my case for instance, I have 1066 Crucial Ballistix ram. The board does 800 max (stock) so the only way to approach the max limit of 1066 on my ram is to get the FSB up there right?

Thanks for this guide. Lots of text to go through but I'm going to make my way now. I have this set up and I've been looking for some good information like this to make tweeking my new rig easier. Cheers for moving this information into it's own thread.

Unlike everything we've learned with the previous architecture, these Phenoms do better with a simple CPU Multiplier increase and really only raise the throughput of the RAM/NB/HT a bit through the FSB increase.

Most of these boards (790FX) aren't stable at anything above 250FSB, obviously depending on the CPU that's in the socket - of the 4 Phenom 9850's I've tested, the highest FSB I could attain is 258, but if you do the math correctly, that actually DEcreases RAM throughput (because of having to run the lower divider), even though you can get the HT/NB higher.

So, if you're wanting high MHz from your CPU, without having to increase the load for the rest of the components, then increasing the CPU Multi is the way to do that, but it does use more voltage than increasing the FSB (and lowering the CPU Multi, putting the memory on a divider, lowering the NB Muli and HT MHz)

3Dmark06 10712 single card and no oc, 12071 with cpu @ 2.8ghz and card oced, 13877 with crossfire.

Was reading through and my cpu is running a 57c right know lol. Stock cooler though I guess I got to fix that. I am in the works to watercooling the cpu and ill see what i can get out of my cpu. I need to apply some better TIM though for know.

Unlike everything we've learned with the previous architecture, these Phenoms do better with a simple CPU Multiplier increase and really only raise the throughput of the RAM/NB/HT a bit through the FSB increase.

Most of these boards (790FX) aren't stable at anything above 250FSB, obviously depending on the CPU that's in the socket - of the 4 Phenom 9850's I've tested, the highest FSB I could attain is 258, but if you do the math correctly, that actually DEcreases RAM throughput (because of having to run the lower divider), even though you can get the HT/NB higher.

So, if you're wanting high MHz from your CPU, without having to increase the load for the rest of the components, then increasing the CPU Multi is the way to do that, but it does use more voltage than increasing the FSB (and lowering the CPU Multi, putting the memory on a divider, lowering the NB Muli and HT MHz)

Psychlone

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. In my case I am using an Athlon 64 X2 4800+. My main concern is to maximize CPU performance for a particular program I am running, but I would also like to get some of that potential of my 1066mhz ram rather than leaving it at the mobo stock setting of 800mhz. I still have some reading to do I guess in terms of what you mention about maximizing your ram vs the divider (have to figure out how to work out the math).

Thanks for the info. In my case I am using an Athlon 64 X2 4800+. My main concern is to maximize CPU performance for a particular program I am running, but I would also like to get some of that potential of my 1066mhz ram rather than leaving it at the mobo stock setting of 800mhz. I still have some reading to do I guess in terms of what you mention about maximizing your ram vs the divider (have to figure out how to work out the math).

The guide really only applies to the new architecture, so increasing the FSB while lowering the multi/NB/HT and putting the memory on a divider is still the most effective way for your X2.
Also, the math is a little bit different, since the X2 doesn't have an L3 cache, and even though the NB and HT aren't directly linked per the BIOS, they still behave differently than the Phenom architecture.
Here's the math for anything prior to the Phenom:

**For the memory divider, you must round UP to the next higher integer - even if you end up with a .1 (i.e. 11.1 = 12, 10.4 = 11, etc.) So, any time you have a decimal here, you have to round up to the next higher whole number for the math to work correctly...whereas, with the Phenom architecture, you can't round or the math doesn't work (this one stumped me for quite some time till I figured that one out!!! )

Good job so far - everything else is pretty much the same, especially finding the MAX for each component (where everyone should start), so get familiar with it all and you'll go far!

After starting from scratch as per your guide to find my max's I came up with
FSB 390mhz (Is it normal to get this high?!)
CPU Multi 12.5 (this is all my bios allows, I'm assuming because of my chip)
Ram divider (not sure how to control this yet)

Dram Timings
Mem Clock 800mhz(this is max allowed on mobo I think because I am running an X2. I don't get the option of 1066mhz until I get a phenom in there I believe)
CL - 4
TCWL - Auto
TRCD - 4
TRP - 4
TRAS - 12
*all the rest AUTO

After starting from scratch as per your guide to find my max's I came up with
FSB 390mhz (Is it normal to get this high?!) Sure - completely depends on the CPU in the socket
CPU Multi 12.5 (this is all my bios allows, I'm assuming because of my chip)[color="blue] Again, because of the CPU in the socket[/color]
Ram divider ([COLOR="Red"]not sure how to control this yet[/COLOR]) See the PS notes below

Dram Timings
Mem Clock 800mhz(this is max allowed on mobo I think because I am running an X2. I don't get the option of 1066mhz until I get a phenom in there I believe)
CL - 4
TCWL - Auto
TRCD - 4
TRP - 4
TRAS - 12
*all the rest AUTO

HT Configuration
*all 4 options DisabledI read your notes regarding 'Isochronous Flow along with UnitID Clumping and VC1, haven't tried changing these yet, based on your knowledge is there potential to gain anything with my X2 CPU? Nope - those are pretty much for Phenom architecture, but I've yet to see any performance increase OR decrease for that matter on all 4 of mine!

The rest of the settings are pretty standard.

Thanks again for your input, it's much appreciated.

Click to expand...

Since I've not put anything besides Phenom 9850BE's in this motherboard, I wasn't sure, but suspected that it would work more like the older architecture boards (A8R32-MVP Deluxe) - I have a guide for that too...I'll link you to it shortly.
One thing that I forgot to mention is that the memory controller is now integrated into the Phenom CPUs, so your NB won't have all the options seen in my guide for the NB. Also, your HT is limited by the CPU as well, so it's max throughput is going to be 1000MHz (which is really 2000MHz in both directions, but that's not how we say it) - BUT, your HT is still going to be a multi of the FSB, it's just shown different...see below.

So, you're running at 2.8GHz, RAM (limited by the CPU to 800MHz instead of 1066) is running at 935MHz, and your HT is at 1000MHz - not too shabby!

About RAM Dividers - you pretty much are limited by the 800MHz cap that your CPU and mobo put on your sticks, so you'll either use the 800MHz setting, or the 667MHz setting, and for the math (on line 2, where you divide your CPU Multi by the memory divider as a decimal), you will divide by 2 for the 800MHz setting or divide by 1.66 for the 667MHz setting. - DON'T forget to round UP to the next whole integer if you land on a decimal, even if it's .1 !!
i.e. (11) / (2) = (5.5) - round UP (so = 6)
OR
i.e. (11) / (1.6666666) = (6.6) - round UP (so = 7)

You should be able to get quite a bit more out of your system by LOWERING your CPU Multiplier and INCREASING your FSB - Hell, if your board is stable at 390MHz FSB, then dropping your CPU Multi to 9 and your RAM to 667 will get you a ton more...check this out: (just for example sake, don't just make these settings in BIOS without testing!)
(9) * (334) = (3006)
(9) / (1.6666666) = (5.4) - round UP (so = 6)
(3006) / (6) = (501) ( * 2 = 1002MHz DDR) - you *may* have to loosen a couple latencies to be stable here, but it's DEFINITELY doable!!!
Also to take notice, since you can't adjust your HT with a multi, you may have to set it at a much lower frequency.
Here's the HT frequencies and their correlation:
1000Mhz = 5X
800MHz = 4X
600MHz = 3X
400MHz = 2X
And, these are *still* a multiple of your FSB, so at 3X, it would look like this:
(3) * (334) = (1002) - which is just right!

The above settings puts your CPU at 3GHz, your RAM at 1000MHz, and your HT at 1000MHz - I'd say that's a slam-dunk depending on the stepping of your CPU and how much voltage you have to throw at it to help it out. When you're done, ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS decrease your voltage(s) and test, decrease and test, decrease and test until you've found out just how little voltage everything will still be stable at - this is important and should be in the guides (I always forget to mention this) - running stable at the lowest voltages for your overclock will obviously reduce heat.

Here's that A8R32-MVP Deluxe Guide - it's almost verbatim the same thing you read in my M3A32-MVP Deluxe Guide here, but made for the older architecture. In that thread, if you follow it through, there is dialog between a member there and I that may shed some light on different scenarios that you may encounter - even though it's on a different board altogether, most of the options will be exactly the same, and certainly the outcome will be the same.

Good luck Bro...you've just got a bunch more reading to do!!! (ouch...that probably sucks, but there's so much information in that thread, that it's not even close to something that can be c/p into here without derailing this thread - Sorry man! )

Hey thanks again. Since your post, I managed to get some more searching and reading re: ram dividers done and seem to understand the concept now thoroughly.

Now when you say loosen the ram latencies in your case scenario above, you mean increase the numbers correct? (ex: from CL 4 to 5).

I also understand the correlation now between HT frequency and their respective multi thanks to your example above. Actually now that I think of it, I remember AMD's overclocking utility for windows had the HT's labeled with their respective multi's but I tossed that software out and decided to do everything via the bios and couldn't remember those until you mentioned it again. Prior to your post, I had tried the following after more reading about dividers and tried to see if I could get my ram up to its rating but with no success (no post):

I dropped my CPU multi down to 10x (from 11x). Left my ram at 800 so divider still 2. Tried upping the FSB to 265 (from 255) to get the following....

265*10= 2650 / 5 = 530 (*2 1060) (I think I did this all right...)

But after reading your last post it appears this may have something to do with leaving my HT at 1Ghz and my ram timings the way they were (4-4-4-12)

Maybe, I should up my ram #'s back up to 5-5-5-15. Bring the HT down to let's say 3x. Then drop my CPU multi while upping FSB. Once I find something decent, trying upping the HT one notch, then once I max that out, trying lowering my ram timings one at a time??? How's that sound?

It's probably more because your HT is out of spec - at 2650, I'd doubt that the board is stable there with the X2 in the socket.

And, yes, when I said increase some latencies, I meant to go from 4 to 5, but I'd leave CAS as low as you can be stable - there's more to it than that, but if you increase them all, find a very high overclock, and then begin latency tweaking by tightening them back up [1] at a time (as per both guides) - you'll have the fastest latencies for your highest overclock - which is what it's all about anyway.

What you wrote in blue looks like exactly what I'd do now that you know your individual component's maximum values... Good luck!

Psychlone

EDIT: As for my lengthy response(s), not only am I long-winded about things that I have experience with and am trying to teach, but I absolutely *LOVE* it when the person that I'm teaching 'gets it' - and you just 'get it' - which is pretty rare...most of the time when I try to help someone in this way, I'm met with some pretty serious stupidity - the kind that makes you wonder how they managed to remember to tie their shoes in the morning!

Half the time it's just having the ambition to obtain full fruition of what it is you seek to answer for yourself. Most raise their hands and give up when it goes over their head. For me, "just because" has NEVER in my life been acceptable. I always have to know why or how something works, ALWAYS!

I will say this, about an hour ago, half of the things mentioned in your guide above made no sense to me. I just bought this board, cpu, ram, and vid card and have been out of the loop for years not knowing about dual cores, HT's, etc, etc. It's amazing how far a little careful reading can take a person! BUT......having said that, it is equally and crucially important as to how the person doing the explaining, portrays their thoughts on paper (or in this case screens). In other words, some are meant to be good teachers (which can be a tricky task to accomplish) and others know what they want to say to someone, but have no idea how to effectively communicate it in a coherent manner.

Now..........time to hit the reset button on this bitch and get playing. I'll post back here momentarily with hopefully some new and candid results!

YES! Run Everest Ultimate Cache and Memory Benchmark and write down your Read, Write, Copy and Latency for the memory, and then run SuperPi 1M and write down how many seconds that one takes...then run OCCT or Orthos StressPrime and test for some stability (I'd be willing to bet that you can skip this step)

There is sometimes strange behavior in memory (with it's latencies) and CPU clock cycles - I've seen lower CPU frequencies and higher memory MHz beat out higher CPU frequencies and lower memory MHz with tighter timings...the only way to know which way gives the most throughput is to test each configuration for yourself - you already know that not all rigs will behave the same, so testing is the only way to ensure what you're getting vs. what you *could* get.

So with that, after you've benched those settings, try for a higher FSB - this is where you'll find the real power in your system...but you'll have to test, test, test.

Your idle temps look great, but idle temps really mean nothing in my world - my computer is on 24/7, so idling at 34*C hurts nothing...it's the full-load temps that should concern you - AMD CPUs reach their thermal limit in the upper 60*C range - and *all* ASUS motherboards (along with most others now days) have a thermal limit that is read directly from the CPU's registers, shutting the system down in the event the thermal threshold is reached...so even if you do hit the thermal threshold, your motherboard will shut down everything to save the CPU. If you do find yourself reaching into the 60*C or higher range, it's time to re-think your CPU cooling *AND* case cooling.
Most people miss case cooling altogether, and proper case cooling is just as paramount to a successful overclock as is a good CPU HS/f assembly. Having the case exhaust the hot internal air is only 1/2 of what the case should be doing...it's also got to intake (and direct) cool air toward the CPU HS/f assembly. I've found that just a bit of positive pressure (more CFM pointing IN than OUT) is most beneficial to all the fans in the system.
I actually got ahold of a program that shows airspeed velocity of the leading edge and trailing edge of an infinitely configurable blade (probably the exact program that designers of today's most efficient fans actually use for their manufacture) - just to figure out my previous system...and it worked so well, that with my Opteron 165 running at 3.2GHz and my Corsair XMS3202C2 v1.3 RAM running at 583MHz, it idled at 31*C and never once got hotter than 48*C. It still runs that way, it's just my wife's computer now (overkill for sure, but it had to go somewhere, and I wasn't about to get rid of such a fine machine!)
In any case, my previous system used an Aspire X-Navigator case with 4 80mm fans and 1 120mm fan - and contrary to the way MOST people would have set up this case, I had the 2 rear 80mm fans pulling air IN, the front 80mm fan pulling air IN, the top pushing air OUT (heat rises and I had the PSU completely quarantined in it's own space at the top) and the 120mm side-fan pushing air OUT - close to exactly backwards to how most would have their case fans...but it was *the* most efficient design I tested, and believe me when I say that I tested *EVERY* single possible configuration conceivable. (literally, every fan in every position - if you do the math, that's 5 to the 2nd power because of the ability to reverse each fan's airflow)

Wow...I just went off, didn't I

Anyway, you've got it now...you understand the concepts, you understand the math, now it's just a matter of juggling all your settings and testing to see which gives the most throughput and is stable! Good job!! (and thanks for the props!)

I would have to say that I am quite happy with these results thus far and never thought I could get so much from this board and my setup and all on stock cooling. You mention how important case cooling is and I can tell you first hand I have experienced how much of a difference a good case setup can make. While conducting all this OC'ing and testing, I have had my case partially open so I can have easy access to do a hard CMOS reset in the event I needed to (happened a couple times). Once I replaced the side back on my tower (which possess and extraction fan) my MB temp's actually dropped!!!

Now back to squeezing that FSB, and time to start dropping those ram timings from the 'auto' setting.

Nice! The jump from 1.32V to 1.4V shows that your CPU wasn't capable of 3GHz at stock voltage, but you may have been stable at a much lower voltage than 1.4 (may have just been a slight bit of overkill, but it certainly isn't hurting anything!)

I wonder how much further you can go? With load temps of 55*C at 1.4V, I'd bet, given a good CPU stepping, that you can break 3GHz pretty easily with a bit more voltage or simple tweaking.

Just out of curiosity, did you try to decrease the CPU volts any and run any tests? There's a chance that you may still be stable where you are with even less VCORE...I'd give it a try. Either that, or try for more FSB and see if you can go higher with the same voltage. If you have to increase your VCORE, it's not that big of a deal considering your load temps and obviously your case cooling!

I am curious how your HT is going to react with that CPU...it's theoretical limit was breached 300MHz ago, but that really shows how well the board handles that CPU - my A8R32-MVP Deluxe was capable of 1500MHz HT completely stable, something that only the A8R32-MVP Deluxe could brag about...I only saw 1 DFI board come close, but a lot of A8R32-MVP's could do it without a hitch, and considering that our new board, the M3A32-MVP Deluxe is built on a newer version of the AMD/ATi chipset, there's a good chance that it's still got some more headroom left.

About your 'AUTO' settings in RAM latencies - 3 of the most important ones to create stability for your RAM at really high frequencies aren't in our BIOS - Read Preamble, ASYNC Latency and tREF is completely different for 1066 sticks...I haven't had an X2 in this board to see, but tREF at 15.6us on my old board was pertinent to stability at high RAM overclock...not to say that 1170MHz is bad by any means, in fact, that's impressive (what exact sticks are they? revision/version #?)

One thing that you can do (and since I have no experience with an X2 chip in the M3A32-MVP Deluxe) is to go into Windows, download Memset and write down what ALL your latencies are, then match them in BIOS...it skips the entire step of upping them all - pretty much all you need to do is match them after you've got a killer oc, then tighten them up 1 at a time...not too sure how Memset is going to function, but I bet it will do just fine!

Nice! The jump from 1.32V to 1.4V shows that your CPU wasn't capable of 3GHz at stock voltage, but you may have been stable at a much lower voltage than 1.4 (may have just been a slight bit of overkill, but it certainly isn't hurting anything!)
I wonder how much further you can go? With load temps of 55*C at 1.4V, I'd bet, given a good CPU stepping, that you can break 3GHz pretty easily with a bit more voltage or simple tweaking.

Just out of curiosity, did you try to decrease the CPU volts any and run any tests? There's a chance that you may still be stable where you are with even less VCORE...I'd give it a try. Either that, or try for more FSB and see if you can go higher with the same voltage. If you have to increase your VCORE, it's not that big of a deal considering your load temps and obviously your case cooling! Oddly, I started first by increasing my FSB from 325 to 330 and no go. 328/327 posted and went to windows but no good with OCCT. I went back to 325 and tried decreasing the voltage here to see if I was stable at lower settings, but OCCT wouldn't make it through, and now I am back to 1.4v and my last OCCT run failed as well Last night, it ran an hour and produced a stable result, I'm confused.

I am curious how your HT is going to react with that CPU...it's theoretical limit was breached 300MHz ago, but that really shows how well the board handles that CPU - my A8R32-MVP Deluxe was capable of 1500MHz HT completely stable, something that only the A8R32-MVP Deluxe could brag about...I only saw 1 DFI board come close, but a lot of A8R32-MVP's could do it without a hitch, and considering that our new board, the M3A32-MVP Deluxe is built on a newer version of the AMD/ATi chipset, there's a good chance that it's still got some more headroom left.

About your 'AUTO' settings in RAM latencies - 3 of the most important ones to create stability for your RAM at really high frequencies aren't in our BIOS - Read Preamble, ASYNC Latency and tREF is completely different for 1066 sticks...I haven't had an X2 in this board to see, but tREF at 15.6us on my old board was pertinent to stability at high RAM overclock...not to say that 1170MHz is bad by any means, in fact, that's impressive (what exact sticks are they? revision/version #?) The label says 2-1GB 240-Pin UNBUFF DIMM 128MX64DDR2 PC2 - 8500 CL5 EPP, BL2KIT12864AA1065

One thing that you can do (and since I have no experience with an X2 chip in the M3A32-MVP Deluxe) is to go into Windows, download Memset and write down what ALL your latencies are, then match them in BIOS...it skips the entire step of upping them all - pretty much all you need to do is match them after you've got a killer oc, then tighten them up 1 at a time...not too sure how Memset is going to function, but I bet it will do just fine! I will do this

quoting myself "Oddly, I started first by increasing my FSB from 325 to 330 and no go. 328/327 posted and went to windows but no good with OCCT. I went back to 325 and tried decreasing the voltage here to see if I was stable at lower settings, but OCCT wouldn't make it through, and now I am back to 1.4v and my last OCCT run failed as well Last night, it ran an hour and produced a stable result, I'm confused"............

Not sure why, but I decided to just up the CPU VDDA from 2.6 to 2.7 and it seems to have done the trick. OCCT is currently running, about 35 minutes so far, and no issues! Temp's are a scratch higher:

CPU 57C
MB 38C

and that's probably as high as I want to see the CPU go. So I don't think I will give the CPU any more 'v' from here on in, but by changing the CPU VDDA now and gaining back that stability, let's see if I can get that FSB up to 330. If so great, if not, 325 it is then, and then I will tweak the ram.

Thanks again for all the good info. Hopefully I can have all this concluded before my golf match in a few hours!

After hours of exhausting every combination and possible outcome I think I have found my sweet spot with my setup. The problem now is that I am having video card stability issues. (where as before I wasn't). Here is where I am at

After running OCCT for a full hour and getting a 'stable' result, max temps

CPU 56C
MB 37C

My video card is an evga e-Geforce 9600 GT OC Edition (675/900 stock)

Prior to doing all this OC work on my mobo I was running the card @ 735/1050 with no problems. Since all the OC work, I have even dropped it back to it's stock settings and still, I lock up or get a fatal error when running a tasking program (Microsoft Flight Simulator X).

1st thing I tried is working with the driver and after a bit of reading, decided to revert back from the newly leaked 177.xx driver to the 175.xx. Instantly I noticed the program ran MUCH nicer, smoother, and lasted much longer before hanging or getting an error.

Secondly, I suspected maybe I needed to do something with the PCIE frequency in the bios so I upped it. Thus far I have tried 105 and 110, and yet although I noticed it ran longer (10-12 minutes or so) eventually I would end up with the fatal error again.

As of now I am out of ideas for somehow getting this card to be stable again. Obviously it is directly related to OC'ing I have done to my existing setup, but I am not sure how to bring the video card up along beside it.