tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post601111275140826790..comments2011-10-10T09:46:21.646-07:00Comments on KUOWGATE: KUOWGATE.Cliff Massnoreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-39930850271855691822011-10-05T18:10:33.158-07:002011-10-05T18:10:33.158-07:00NPR is meaningless. You are better on your own th...NPR is meaningless. You are better on your own than clinging to that sinking ship. All the beat, CliffGeorgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05104813293940769943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-29866448400931315922011-07-02T12:33:04.127-07:002011-07-02T12:33:04.127-07:00It is sad that research scientists are now the onl...It is sad that research scientists are now the only &#39;group&#39; devoted to finding facts and interpreting them with reason. One interesting thought is: what happens to Cliff&#39;s main careeer if he misrepresents fact? He puts his whole identity/reputation as a scientist in jeopardy. Steve? Well he proves his institutional loyalty, in this case. Therefore, I&#39;d prefer to trust the facts of a major research scientist than a major radio man. The set of incentives for truth is so completely in favor of Cliff (as it is for other active scientists).<br /><br />This whole KUOW situation is an excellent example of instutional &#39;logic&#39; gone mad. Which is almost always the case when the facts threaten an institution. The only interesting wrinkle is that this situation highlights so well the structural problems with having such big and powerful &#39;journalistic&#39; institutions. <br /><br />The journalists at KUOW deserve no more implicit credibility than others paid to move the story and collect the audience. The difference in process between KUOW, FOX and the Corporate PR departments has been reduced to matters of degree, not kind. They are pushing the story and collecting the audience - keeping the institutions alive. We are all at risk to believe that NPR broadcast journalists are in a different game or that they play by different ethical rules than any other kind of media institution.chris brookfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13485661576148243647noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-14476198472514516282011-07-01T22:51:43.144-07:002011-07-01T22:51:43.144-07:00Progessive Crank,
I really don&#39;t know what...Progessive Crank,<br /> I really don&#39;t know what Steve meant about the &quot;rules&quot; of me being a forecaster. He knew from the beginning that I wanted to talk about more than the forecasts and they had let me talk about all kinds of stuff earlier. My ONLY agreement with him..made under duress....was to stop talking about math education.Cliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-67812070951551394292011-07-01T14:52:22.319-07:002011-07-01T14:52:22.319-07:00Cliff, I understand your stress and largely agree ...Cliff, I understand your stress and largely agree with you, but I also believe your opinion pieces were sometimes biased (or uneducated) against, well, business, capitalism, tax payers, etc. In a sense, you view the tax well as rather deeper than it is, and paint (if not actually revealing) yourself as a far liberal. To that end, while your removal was unfair, it is a bit poetic. He who lives by blind liberalism will die by it.bloggithttp://bloggit.livejournal.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-17892765111061344532011-07-01T13:31:04.512-07:002011-07-01T13:31:04.512-07:00This — Cliff: &quot;Steve, can I make a comment ab...This — <i>Cliff: &quot;Steve, can I make a comment about UW admissions for a second?&quot;<br />Steve: &quot;Well you&#39;re violating the rules of you being a weather forecaster...&quot;</i> — is a request. And the answer was obviously intended as a threat, as a warning, even if the topic under discussion — UW admissions and an erroneous newspaper report — had never come up before. And reading it now, it reads like KUOW were looking for a reason to get rid of the atmospheric science segment, the local weather, and replace it with something else. Why would you say, to a trusted colleague, &quot;you&#39;re violating the rules&quot; on air? And again, if this was such a big issue, why not record and edit it? <br /><br />And of course, why someone would come to the KUOWgate blog and bitch that Prof Mass keeps talking about this makes no sense: why visit a website whose existence you oppose and then leave a comment about how unhappy you are? It seems pretty obvious that KUOW has lost their focus. Not sure how long they plan to let this slide, even with their budget surplus. Time will tell. <br /><br />And reading this — <i> you&#39;re also fighting against parents who really want to believe their kids are getting a decent education in our public school system.</i> — gave me pause as well. I don&#39;t want to <i>believe</i> my kids are getting a decent education, I want to be sure. And if the only way to be convinced of that is to shut down the educators who work with the kids who come out of that system, who wants that? <br /><br />Prof Mass has said time and time again that he and other professors assess the numeracy and math sense of incoming freshmen and have noted a persistent decline. This should be a call to action by all of us and should have been a topic for KUOW to investigate. If they had a news director, they could have launched an investigation into how the state school systems compare with out of state students, how different districts within Washington compare, etc. But no. He brought it up and KUOW — your local news and information station — ignored it.a progressive crankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135136349294909242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-851788625102048802011-07-01T13:13:27.891-07:002011-07-01T13:13:27.891-07:00What I love is the fact you brought this to anothe...What I love is the fact you brought this to another site.<br /><br />I hope that KUOW will eventually just admit to their HUGE and GLARING error in judgment on multiple fronts, and everyone move on.<br /><br />IMO, they owe you a public apology Cliff.Joseph Ratliffhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01889927640097635849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-28763341205567305632011-07-01T09:47:56.638-07:002011-07-01T09:47:56.638-07:00Why, Cliff, would some UW faculty want to shut you...Why, Cliff, would some UW faculty want to shut you up on education?Annehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03691790708775517850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-68142213001191344012011-06-30T20:16:40.430-07:002011-06-30T20:16:40.430-07:00Adam,
I think my post was absolutely factual. ...Adam,<br /> I think my post was absolutely factual. My agreement was Steve was about not talking about math education...which he didn&#39;t want me to do because it was my &quot;opinion.&quot; On that day I was not talking about math education..just admission facts..and I never agreed to complete restrain my ability to speak. And even if you don&#39;t agree with me about this one incident, there is nothing else. In short, Steve was mischaracterizing our agreement and I note that he had put me on the week in review segment that week, where all participants could talk about anything...cliffCliff Mass Weather Bloghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13948649423540350788noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-32878160142223660702011-06-30T15:40:32.860-07:002011-06-30T15:40:32.860-07:00I said this elsewhere, before I knew that the ques...I said this elsewhere, before I knew that the questions were provided in advance, but I have never understood why, if they were so worried Professor Mass was going to go off the reservation, KUOW didn&#39;t just tape his segment sometime earlier in the day and edit it to fit. They have recording equipment, right? <br /><br />I really don&#39;t think they care and if it&#39;s true that they were coerced into this position by some Ed department people, they should be ashamed. Commercial stations cave in to pressure but public radio stations are supposed to be better: after all, if they do their jobs and can demonstrate that they are bringing truly independent information to their audience, the audience will pay for that. As you point out, KUOW carries a surplus.a progressive crankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05135136349294909242noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-61755121649485948472011-06-30T14:53:30.763-07:002011-06-30T14:53:30.763-07:00Thanks Cliff. I actually find following you on yo...Thanks Cliff. I actually find following you on your blog much more enlightening and helpful than your segments on KUOW.<br /><br />But you have got to stop because this is getting old and tiring. It is not fair but you are not likely to change their mind. No organization is perfect but I can still enjoy KUOW and as far as I am concerned, they are forgiven.<br /><br />Go about your business, do it well and enjoy it. I am sure it is sad to say goodbye to KUOW but that is the way that life is. Embrace other opportunities or spend that extra time with your family, work, exercise or what ever.<br /><br />Be grateful for the opportunity that you had with KUOW and be grateful for whatever else comes your way.Eric Friedlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11165936461914698188noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-33972509947441929862011-06-30T14:33:48.581-07:002011-06-30T14:33:48.581-07:00You certainly have my support. And that includes ...You certainly have my support. And that includes my escalating donations via your blog&#39;s &quot;HELP SUPPORT UW WEATHER PREDICTION RESEARCH&quot; link. Keep up your good work, Cliff. Love you.Frankhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00511580812442032255noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-26834568094503395492011-06-30T11:39:45.059-07:002011-06-30T11:39:45.059-07:00Fetlock, I was with you right until the end, when ...Fetlock, I was with you right until the end, when you said this: &quot; Worse yet, you&#39;re also fighting against parents who really want to believe their kids are getting a decent education in our public school system.&quot;<br /><br />I believe that Cliff is fighting FOR the parents (like me) who want to see their kids get a decent education in the public school system.<br /><br />Fortunately, I live in Bellevue, where that is mostly the case.<br /><br />KUOW is a cowardly lion. I am disgusted by them and their underhandedness; no ethics at all! Money that I previously would have sent to KUOW I will send directly to Cliff&#39;s UW Meteorology program, with photocopies sent to KUOW so they can feel the impact (and not care).JewelyaZhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09434569437851248356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-1483995808587145142011-06-30T10:33:13.959-07:002011-06-30T10:33:13.959-07:00FrustratingFrustratingDan McShanehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17044037213245602667noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-86170003358191019442011-06-30T08:54:52.462-07:002011-06-30T08:54:52.462-07:00Professor Mass, while I was a big fan of your KUOW...Professor Mass, while I was a big fan of your KUOW segment, I don&#39;t believe you are being 100% truthful either. In general, when you accuse a party of being dishonest or misleading with their language, you had better be *absolutely* certain that you aren&#39;t guilty of the same crime. And by all means, as a scientist, I know you know better than to use the words &quot;always&quot; and &quot;never&quot;. You write:<br /><br />&quot;The truth is that EVERY SINGLE time I talked about another topic (99% of the time it was about education), it was with the permission of Steve. In fact, he ALWAYS was the one that asked me the leading question that brought up education. Our system was for me to provide him with a list of questions before each segment and HE decided which ones to ask. I NEVER brought up an education issue on my own. This can be proved by listening to the archive program on the KUOW website...&quot;<br /><br />I heard Deborah Wang&#39;s story on this topic, and could hardly believe my ears when the Weekday snippet came on:<br /><br />Cliff: &quot;Steve, can I make a comment about UW admissions for a second?&quot;<br />Steve: &quot;Well you&#39;re violating the rules of you being a weather forecaster...&quot;<br /><br />This exchange was not doctored in any way, but it doesn&#39;t square with what you wrote above. <br /><br />When you were first let go, I was very upset with KUOW. I joined the Facebook group and followed the story on your blog and through other media outlets. I don&#39;t particular like Steve Scher. I wish there were more diverse views on KUOW. And I certainly agree with you that KUOW has gone into spin mode on this episode. Over time, though, I reversed course. I respect Steve&#39;s authority to direct the conversation on his show, and it sounds like you overreached in this case. Please tell me what I&#39;m missing so I could get back into your camp.adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11578110079027262048noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-4125462422694447992011-06-30T08:42:58.481-07:002011-06-30T08:42:58.481-07:00Cliff first of all I miss your segments. It was i...Cliff first of all I miss your segments. It was interesting that when you first went missing on KUOW I realized for the first time how much a fan of your segments I’d become over the years without knowing it. That said there is definitely something seriously wrong with both KUOW and KCTS, they’ve lost their independence and seem to me to be increasingly putting forth an agenda rather than advocating for independent broad minded thought and discussion. I’m concerned and I’m skeptical of their motives, no more money for these guys from me.Davidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03671683312414389799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-2239509095068950402011-06-30T08:14:48.419-07:002011-06-30T08:14:48.419-07:00I posted on your weather blog about education &quo...I posted on your weather blog about education &quot;administrators&quot; in our state and how forceful they can be when someone doesn&#39;t agree with them. <br /><br />Recently in central Washington, a reporter wrote an opinion column for the daily she works for. The column was about behavior she&#39;d observed at her local high school...including an inappropriately dressed teacher (she never named any names) and students who were screaming profanity in the parking lot (again, the writer didn&#39;t identify anyone).<br /><br />The upshot of her column was that she wouldn&#39;t feel comfortable sending her children to the school.<br /><br />The superintendent of the district immediately accused the reporter of attacking the district, and wrote a letter to the newspaper demanding an apology. Sounded like the district even organized a subscription-cancelling campaign<br /><br />And not only did the newspaper apologize, the publisher concocted a ridiculous lie to cover his own behind...he said if he had seen the reporter&#39;s opinion column prior to publication he never would&#39;ve allowed it to be printed. Way to back up your staff, boss.<br /><br />Even more troubling, the newspaper COMPLETELY WITHDREW the section on the opinion page where reporters weighed in on local issues. <br />For those of us who are in our forties (and older) we grew up knowing that the media had enough power to print unpopular things about powerful people--and, in fact, that they took that responsibility seriously.<br /><br />That is not the case these days. Although KUOW doesn&#39;t appear to be hurting for money, it sure looks like someone put the screws to Scher to get rid of you--not because you KEPT talking about your opinions on the air, but because YOU have become synonymous with your opinions about math education. &quot;Oh, Dr. Mass...yeah, he&#39;s that weather guy who thinks the state is doing a crummy job with math education and who is suing the school district.&quot; <br /><br />And that is probably the most troubling thing of all--when people get muzzled not for what they are actually saying, but for what the powers that be are worried they MIGHT say. <br /><br />The &quot;old school&quot; ideal of journalism regarding speaking truth to power is disappearing. It&#39;s now up to media consumers to &#39;follow the money&#39; and figure out where the real truth lies--something that very few folks have the patience or motivation for (clearly evident on your blog--witness the whining about how you were talking about KUOW too much). <br /><br />If the media is unwilling to provide the truth (either because they can&#39;t afford it or because they don&#39;t want to stand up to political pressure), then it is up to the individual.<br /><br />I know of very few more unpleasant undertakings than to have to tackle something like this, Cliff. Remember that you&#39;re not just fighting KUOW, you&#39;re fighting the state&#39;s public education system--a tremendously powerful entity with a lot riding on how the public perceives them. Worse yet, you&#39;re also fighting against parents who really want to believe their kids are getting a decent education in our public school system.Fetlockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09294085455860971795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-75938725075729719362011-06-30T07:13:27.376-07:002011-06-30T07:13:27.376-07:00I&#39;m with You, Cliff. &quot;Public&quot; radio ...I&#39;m with You, Cliff. &quot;Public&quot; radio is more concerned about not offending it&#39;s constituents and has degenerated to the realm of infotainment and true journalism has been lost. No more $ from me, KUOW.Tangozuluhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18267564964985834137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-864491320597628846.post-10415130450742453582011-06-30T06:35:29.310-07:002011-06-30T06:35:29.310-07:00Right on Cliff!Right on Cliff!Stinson Fine Arthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12034663859255444023noreply@blogger.com