23:00 <+alanc> hello
23:00 <Bart_Massey> howdy!
23:00 <marcoz> heyo
23:01 <agd5f> hi
23:02 <+anholt> hi
23:02 <stukreit> hello
23:03 <Bart_Massey> Five of us, anyhow. Missing keithp, anholt. Who else?
23:04 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: anholt is here
23:04 <Bart_Massey> Oops. I fail reading comprehension forever
23:04 <+alanc> I saw stukreit in the hall earlier
23:04 <+alanc> oh, wait, I failed too
23:04 <stukreit> alan fails too
23:04 <Bart_Massey> OK, I guess that's everybody but keithp?
23:04 <Bart_Massey> Anyway, let's get started
23:05 <+anholt> marcoz: are you set up for accounts to get elections running?
23:05 <marcoz> i still have no access to anything.
23:06 <+anholt> so, I don't see email from you to sitewranglers, or a request on bugzilla
23:06 <marcoz> did you see the sitewranglers ticket?
23:06 <marcoz> sigh...
23:06 <+anholt> you also said something about "nabble", which confused me
23:06 <marcoz> what is the link I should be using?
23:07 <+anholt> freedesktop bugzilla?
23:07 <marcoz> specific URL please
23:07 <+anholt> https://bugs.freedesktop.org/
23:07 <+alanc> every time I mail sitewranglers I get a moderation message - does someone drain the moderation queue regularly?
23:07 <+anholt> yes/no: drains, but extremely irregularly
23:08 * alanc is tempted to mail sitewranglers a "Told you so!" followup to my "please turn off wiki account creation" mail now that jrayhawk found part of the fd.o website problem is the 388 thousand moin accounts
23:09 <marcoz> product: freedesktop.org ? what component?
23:09 <Bart_Massey> alanc: 388K active wiki editors is *awesome*! Think of how they're improving our web presence!!
23:09 <+anholt> admin or new accounts -- I don't think anyone searches based on those
23:10 <+alanc> I'm not sure "503 Guru Meditation" really counts as an improvement, but it's about the same as the usefulness of some of our web pages
23:11 * Bart_Massey pauses for a moment of Guru Meditation
23:11 <agd5f> marcoz: http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/AccountRequests you can probably use this as a template. just adjust the bug to request elections stuff
23:11 <Bart_Massey> I need to get in touch with jrayhawk again and we need to get our web infrastructure under control
23:12 <marcoz> ok, ticket submitted.
23:12 <+alanc> he and keithp were talking on #freedesktop earlier today
23:13 <marcoz> anholt: can you check if it's in the queue?
23:13 <Bart_Massey> Meanwhile: Does somebody want to send a response to Wayland Crowdsource person? It seems like the consensus of the Board is that this is something we don't really want to take on at this time?
23:13 <stukreit> do we need to vote on it?
23:14 <Bart_Massey> We can. Any discussion before I make a motion?
23:14 <agd5f> I don't remember the wayland crowd source request? what was it about?
23:14 <stukreit> i suppose the rejection is because it is beyond our scope and definition
23:14 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I don't think so.
23:14 <stukreit> agd5f: email from late yesterday
23:14 <+alanc> it seems like if Wayland needed more paid programmers, Intel or someone could hire them
23:15 <Bart_Massey> I'm against it just because it's more Board work than I want to take on at a time when we have other things on our plate.
23:15 <+anholt> marcoz: for asking for an account, you probably need the other information on accountrequests, like ssh pubkey and account name
23:15 <+alanc> much easier for them to add more programmers than us becoming an employer and having to deal with payroll & other HR headaches
23:15 <Bart_Massey> I'm much more concerned with general X.Org Foundation funding, in particular, than funding for a specific project.
23:15 <stukreit> actually, link it to our bylaws: we are not an org about hiring programmers. we're an educational non profit
23:15 <Bart_Massey> Yes, we definitely have a policy of not hiring developers.
23:15 <stukreit> so that's the reason
23:15 <Bart_Massey> (Except students.)
23:16 <agd5f> Ah, I missed that one, reading now
23:16 <stukreit> evoc is not a real hiring. its an internship basically
23:16 <Bart_Massey> But we certainly are an org that could do Wayland fund-raising to be administered by some Wayland group.
23:16 <Bart_Massey> But as I said, if we're going to do fund-raising this year, IMHO it needs to be for plain ol' X.
23:17 <stukreit> so I see this as a way to put out our mission statement
23:17 <+alanc> could also link him to "The Mythical Man Month" - "adding more programmers to an already late project makes it even later"
23:17 <Bart_Massey> Move to politely decline the offer of help with crowdsourcing Wayland funding, due to perceived conflicts with the role of the Board. +1?
23:17 <stukreit> please, i'm serious. this can be an exercise in declaring our corporate position
23:18 <stukreit> +1 I'd like to work with whomever writes the note. I'm willing to start it.
23:18 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Yes, I think we can make it clear what our position is in our response
23:18 <marcoz> which email is this? I'm not seeing one.
23:18 <+alanc> +1
23:18 <+anholt> +1
23:18 <agd5f> probably makes more sense to fund evoc wayland projects that some big wayland project
23:19 <agd5f> marcoz: subject "Would crowdfunding Wayland development make sense?"
23:19 <stukreit> the issue here is how we explain our rejection of his offer
23:19 <+alanc> "Would crowdfunding Wayland development make sense?" to board@x.org last night
23:20 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: If you would like to draft a response to him, emphasizing our position as a Board that we don't want to directly hire developers, that would be awesome...
23:20 <marcoz> Hmmm, nothing. Can one of you forward that to me?
23:21 <agd5f> marcoz: done
23:21 <marcoz> thanks, got it.
23:21 <stukreit> yes I'll do that. Does anyone here think that the premise of his letter is valid? ie. could it happen?
23:21 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: IDK.
23:22 <agd5f> realistically... no
23:22 <+anholt> seems quite unlikely
23:22 <stukreit> I guess wayland might be the wrong vehicle, because it already has much corporate sponsorship
23:22 <stukreit> And does anyone here take seriously the "threat" of Mir?
23:22 <Bart_Massey> On a related topic: Two things about the Ubuntu Y..er..Mir Window System announcement
23:22 <Bart_Massey> Yeah, me too
23:23 <Bart_Massey> So, two questions: What, if anything, do we want to say publicly as a Board about it?
23:23 <agd5f> it's not really our decision as the board to decide whether mir or wayland or something else is "better"
23:23 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: Wayland is something we have agreed is part of the X.Org umbrella; Mir definitely is not
23:23 <+alanc> the developer of FreeType has raised ~ $15k via crowdfunding, a far cry from a full time developer salary
23:23 <stukreit> not asking for adecision, just impressions of where things are going.
23:24 <+keithp> Bart_Massey: jrayhawk wants to meet tomorrow to talk about wikis
23:24 <+keithp> do you have time for breakfast?
23:24 <Bart_Massey> I would suggest we make a highly supportive and encouraging announcement re Mir.
23:24 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Yep let's do it
23:24 <stukreit> +1
23:24 <agd5f> Bart_Massey: sure, but if mir suddenly took off and there was an evoc student that had a good mir proposal...
23:24 <Bart_Massey> Emphasize that we think that it would be fantastic if Canonical could replace X on desktop in 12 months.
23:25 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: All I meant is that we haven't yet taken a position on Mir.
23:25 <stukreit> save us all so much grief
23:25 <+alanc> amazing, astounding, unbelievable
23:25 <agd5f> right
23:25 * alanc stops just short of "utterly impossible"
23:25 <Bart_Massey> Given that Mir is a single-corporation effort, I don't think it's appropriate for us to be supporting it, but that's just my position...
23:26 <Bart_Massey> I'll draft a Mir announcement for the Board to review.
23:26 <stukreit> would be nice to get out infront of comments by some of our beloved bloggers.
23:26 <Bart_Massey> Second question: How does Mir impact our ability to raise funds for X.Org in the short term?
23:26 <Bart_Massey> Is it going to hurt us? Badly?
23:27 <stukreit> My management won't care.
23:27 <agd5f> probably not much in the short term
23:27 <stukreit> imho it doesn't matter
23:27 <Bart_Massey> Good.
23:27 <marcoz> how would it hurt? other than splitting already scarce resources. or is that what you are getting at?
23:27 <+alanc> would think most of our contributors wouldn't care that much - probably can't count on much from Canonical though, but I don't think they've ever given us cash
23:28 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: Sometimes companies want to fund "the next big thing" rather than "same ol same ol"
23:28 <Bart_Massey> Anyway, sounds like everyone is pretty sanguine.
23:28 <+anholt> I don't imagine many people seeing mir as the next big thing.
23:28 <Bart_Massey> Which is good, because I think that's the next big thing.
23:28 <stukreit> I'm not anticipating "hurt", I'm dreamily thinking about when I'll see "the year of the *nix desktop"
23:28 <Bart_Massey> Stabilizing X.Org funding, I mean
23:29 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Sadly, I doubt we'll ever see another "year of the desktop", period :-)
23:29 <agd5f> I mean if mir took off, we could support it as well
23:29 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: I think only if it wasn't a totally Canonical-centric effort, though...
23:29 <stukreit> I've started nudging on my side. Keith was helping me wrestle Intel a few years ago, but it fizzled out.
23:29 <agd5f> sure. I mean if it took off and there were suddenly a lot of community developers behind it
23:30 <stukreit> We're all enjoying the year (month) of the smartphone, pad, and soon flexible screentop.
23:30 <Bart_Massey> So what I need everyone to do is to do what stukreit is doing: figure out where we're going to get money from.
23:30 <agd5f> basically developer interest leads us
23:30 <Bart_Massey> My goal is to get a recurring income of $25K-$50K for the Foundation
23:31 <Bart_Massey> This should about offset our current expenses, if I understand them right.
23:31 <agd5f> maybe get a donate button on the website for starters?
23:31 <stukreit> funding: one component is a totally optional request to the membership so we can have >50% individual donations
23:31 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: Yes, the dollar amount from the website donations will unlikely be large, but it's important for getting our individual donations for 501(c)3 and for letting people feel like they're participating
23:32 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I think we only need 10%, no?
23:32 <stukreit> I don't remember, need to look it up.
23:32 <Bart_Massey> agd5f?: 10%, isn't it?
23:32 <agd5f> yeah, 10%, I was wrong last time
23:32 <Bart_Massey> OK, we're good.
23:32 <Bart_Massey> Does anyone have a contact at the Mozilla Corp they could approach?
23:33 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Are you better than me at asking Google for money?
23:33 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Can you poke at Intel again?
23:33 <Bart_Massey> What about AMD? Even NVidia? Smaller graphics companies?
23:34 <stukreit> How about LTSP. They should be concerned with our viability
23:34 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: I hate to try to take "secondary funds" from folks who are nonprofit already...
23:34 <Bart_Massey> Would prefer to get money from commercial sponsors directly
23:34 <+anholt> agreed
23:35 <stukreit> ok. then let's go down the corp. list. We have contacts in AMD (Bridgeman) and Nvidia (...i forgot.)
23:36 <+alanc> Andy & Aaron
23:36 <agd5f> I can try at AMD
23:36 <+alanc> also, agd5f for AMD
23:36 <stukreit> oh yeah, sorry
23:36 <Bart_Massey> What is signature authority for corps these days? $5K?
23:37 <+alanc> the corp I work for has sliding scales - each level up the org chart has higher spending authority
23:38 <Bart_Massey> I guess what I'm asking is vaguely "at what level of request is it now non-trivial, so we might as well ask for a lot?"
23:38 <Bart_Massey> Should we be looking for 5-7 commitments at $5K each, or 1-2 at $25K each?
23:38 <Bart_Massey> Or some combination of the two?
23:39 <stukreit> I used to pull $10/year from Sun, so I was thinking along those lines for Oracle. I mentioned that number to my mgr last week.
23:39 <agd5f> I'd say a combination
23:40 <Bart_Massey> OK! Well, I think it's not too early to say "let's get started". I will keep bugging all y'all every mtg (assuming I get re-elected) and we'll see how it goes. LMK if I can help in any way.
23:41 <Bart_Massey> My goal is to end the year with (a) at least as much money in the bank as we started with, and (b) a plan for maintaining that
23:41 <marcoz> Bart_Massey: speaking of reelection. elections needs your (updated) statement.
23:41 <Bart_Massey> marcoz: Yeah, I know. I'll try to get it in today.
23:41 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Speaking of "the bank"... :-)
23:41 * alanc needs to send in mine too
23:41 <marcoz> thanks guys
23:42 <stukreit> we spent around $25k last year
23:42 <Bart_Massey> That's what I thought. What I was wondering about was progress changing banks...
23:42 <stukreit> I have 200 words blurb. guess I'll send it around.
23:42 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Awesome. Please do.
23:43 <Bart_Massey> OK, one more item of business, at least. GSoC. Are we doing it? If so, who is taking point this time?
23:43 <stukreit> I feel like I oughta have about 10 questions to ask banks. Maybe fewer, but enough to get a solid takeaway. I fear talking to banks is like talking to the phone company.
23:44 <Bart_Massey> stukreit: Let's take that conversation offline.
23:44 <marcoz> (jic) i'll help with evoc, but my plate is too full for gsoc
23:44 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Can you summarize in an email for stukreit what we already know about banks?
23:45 <Bart_Massey> I really only want to do Portland State GSoC this year, so I'm out. (I've got big plans here...)
23:45 <agd5f> we could request gosc help from the membership
23:45 <Bart_Massey> Does somebody want to post to devel and see if any obviously-qualified non-Board-Members pop up?
23:45 <agd5f> see if anyone bites
23:46 * Bart_Massey jinxes agd5f
23:46 <agd5f> I'll email the xorg-devel list about it
23:46 <Bart_Massey> agd5f: Thanks!
23:46 <+alanc> marcheu has said he doesn't have time to do it again
23:47 <marcoz> yes, thanks agd5f
23:47 <+alanc> but after, what, 4 years, he deserves a break
23:47 <mupuf> sorry to pop in, but do we even have project ideas?
23:47 <Bart_Massey> Donnie Berkholz has done in the past; you might beg him, although I know he's crazy busy too
23:47 <+alanc> don't we also need to discuss XDC dates today?
23:47 <Bart_Massey> mupuf: We always have project ideas, but whoever take Org Admin will definitely have to build an epic Ideas Page this time...
23:47 <Bart_Massey> alanc: Yes, thanks!
23:49 <Bart_Massey> keithp: Are any of those dates out for you? Because if they are, given that you and I are doing local arrangements...
23:51 <Bart_Massey> It sounds like (d) 9/25-9/27 works the best for the most people.
23:51 <Bart_Massey> Any objections to that date?
23:52 <stukreit> can't get to calendar..
23:52 <+anholt> looks great to me
23:52 <+alanc> that seemed to be the consensus in email
23:52 <agd5f> yeah
23:53 <Bart_Massey> OK, I am officially declaring that XDC 2013 will be 9/25-9/27 in Portland, Oregon USA.
23:53 <Bart_Massey> (Declaration subject to actually securing the space. Will try today.)
23:54 <Bart_Massey> We're past out of time. Any other emergency business?
23:54 <+alanc> none here
23:54 <Bart_Massey> Thanks all! See you in a couple of weeks!