A Deployed PaK 38

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Recent comments

patrick.lorent (Mon 13 Feb 2012 11:19:59 AM EST)

Some months back I bought a french copy of 'La guerre sans haine' by Maréchal Rommel (War without hatred? ).Haven't had the time to read it yet.It will give more insight from the Germans side of the African campaign.

patrick.lorent (Mon 13 Feb 2012 11:16:10 AM EST)

Hi TbF & leccy,it's been some time since I read 'End of the beginning' by Clayton and Craig and 'Together we stand' by Holland.Your comments are what I had in mind but failed to put into words as good as you.Thank you for posting :)

@TbF - yes. If the "donkey walloper" mentality was present in the Panzer divisions, it was certainly present, but more so, among the British tankers. However flawed the German theory of armoured warfare may have been, at least they had developed such ...

@TbF - yes. If the "donkey walloper" mentality was present in the Panzer divisions, it was certainly present, but more so, among the British tankers. However flawed the German theory of armoured warfare may have been, at least they had developed such a theory (based, ironically, on British models, which the British had not accepted). Its application went a long way to counteracting inappropriate cavalry approaches in the Panzer divisions, albeit not by any means completely. The ghost of pre-WW1 light/heavy cavalry approaches haunted British armoured tactics well into WW2 - with sad results for many British tankers. Best regards, JR.

It is a fair observation on your part, leccy. The early Panzer divisions were, typically, based on converted horse cavalry formations, and contained a high proportion of men who, more or less, preserved an old-fashioned "donkey walloper" mentality; and ...

It is a fair observation on your part, leccy. The early Panzer divisions were, typically, based on converted horse cavalry formations, and contained a high proportion of men who, more or less, preserved an old-fashioned "donkey walloper" mentality; and cavalrymen, in modern times, have seldom been noted for their intelligence (or, at least, for an inclination to apply it). The mentality of a Ney or a Murat was not necessarily of advantage in a WW2 context. Best regards, JR.

There were quite a few Cavalry Officers in the Armoured Corps early on who still clung to the idea of the dash and elan of the Cavalry.

They would see an apparently retreating foe so give chase, the law of natural selection then took over...

There were quite a few Cavalry Officers in the Armoured Corps early on who still clung to the idea of the dash and elan of the Cavalry.

They would see an apparently retreating foe so give chase, the law of natural selection then took over with them driving into a trap and being killed. Unfortunately enough survived and there were such a large stock of them that it took a while for the attitude to be exterminated.

@brummbar Early in the desert war there was an attitude amongst British armoured commanders that tanks were meant for the attack and attack is what they would do. While this policy yielded enormous gains when used against the Italians in 1940, as you...

@brummbar Early in the desert war there was an attitude amongst British armoured commanders that tanks were meant for the attack and attack is what they would do. While this policy yielded enormous gains when used against the Italians in 1940, as you say, it failed miserably for the next two years against the German technique of enticing an attack onto a defensive screen of 50mm and 75mm PAKs. It is hard to understand the continuation of such policies except in the context of upper-crust generals forcing working class tank crews to "be good chaps, keep their chins up and attack because that is what is expected them." It was Montgomery who stopped this policy of "loosing the armour" during The Battle of Alam el Halfa in September 1942 because he could see it hadn't worked in the past.

leccy is most correct here.The British tank forces in Africa got time and again lured into strong AT positions by the Germans,loosing a lot of tanks and good crews.When reading accounts of the tankbattles in Africa it's hard to understand why it took...

leccy is most correct here.The British tank forces in Africa got time and again lured into strong AT positions by the Germans,loosing a lot of tanks and good crews.When reading accounts of the tankbattles in Africa it's hard to understand why it took the commandstructure so long to understand they were sending their tankforces into deathtraps.

So tanks are only seen in pictures when they are attacking?.
The troops are walking around not taking cover, weapons are slung over shoulders so it looks more like a defensive posture than an attack. The Germans used...

flamesofwarbaby

So tanks are only seen in pictures when they are attacking?.
The troops are walking around not taking cover, weapons are slung over shoulders so it looks more like a defensive posture than an attack. The Germans used their AT guns in defensive positions and tried to lure (mostly successfully) allied tankers into following the German tanks into a killing ground.

flamesofwarbaby (Sat 11 Feb 2012 11:14:19 AM EST)

I disagree this Pak looks like its supporting a atack if you look in the backround you will see a convoy of Panzers i think this Pak 38 supporting a attack

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