Rand Paul will get a battering from many people not just Christie. Christie’s major donors are the neocons who abhor Paul’s neoisolationism much more than his libertarianism. They fear that hard pressed Americans are beginning to question expensive foreign entanglements that squander human and material treasure. Critical articles like this will appear to harass Paul constantly.

Watch and see who is laughing at who soon. The GOP has left an awful lot of people like myself in regards to defunding ObamaCare, investigating Benghazi, Illegal Immigration, etc.... We will see who laughs best when it counts

I would work with Libertarians if they would agree to focus on fiscal conservatism. Starve the beast. Force government to be small.

I could hold off for a few year from pushing for social conservatism, if the Libertarians would hold off for a few years from pushing for social Liberalism.

Once government were made small and starved for cash, then I say we could loosen certain restraints (such as drugs) and let the population make their own choices. No government charity. No helping hand. If drugs mess you up, then you have a very serious problem. If you can take the drugs and function just fine, it’s not my problem and I won’t interfere.

1) Fiscal Conservatism
2) Social Liberalism

In that order.

I would consider such an approach. But, in my experience, Libertarians overwhelmingly want to put the emphasis on the good time Charley part of the equation, and they will solve the fiscal stuff “later”. That’s a Libertine approach, and I reject it.

I know you’re projecting but I don’t use drugs or alcohol. My point was that who are you to impose your views ( they’re not really thoughts) on the right of two other adults to contract? Many libertarians oppose abortion as an illegal deprivation if the infant’s rights. Many libertarians are for strong borders. And many libertarians agree with Ronald Reagan that libertarianism is the soul of conservatism.

26
posted on 08/03/2013 7:42:47 AM PDT
by muir_redwoods
(Don't fire until you see the blue of their helmets)

Right now very few elected officials represent libertarian views. Most Dems represent libertine views. Most Republicans have acquiesced with those views because they want to prove they're the stupid party, once again. Libertarians aren't the problem. Rand is not the problem. The problem is that 99% of elected Republicans don't take a stand on the beliefs of their conservative or libertarian base.

It would be better served if the blogger had focused his keen edged wit where the real problem lies....

I am unconvinced about the good time Charlie stuff. Back when I was a card carrying Libertarian I didn’t give a rip about social issues. What appealed to me about the Libertarians was that they actually talked out loud about actually making government smaller. I joined the Libertarians after reading Harry Brown’s book because he seemed serious about taking the health care system back to a free market model. This was when he was running for president. How many Republicans have done that?

libertarian — Used in Europe. It originally meant “anarchist”. No government. People can function just fine without coercion. Some libertarians wanted socialist communes, and some libertarians wanted unbridled capitalism and a free market. Anarchism was a dynamic political arena, with some good ideas and some bad ideas.

Libertarian — Used in America. Third largest political party. Favoring small government. Fiscally Conservative and socially Liberal. As with any political party, there are a range of positions and no set Libertarian position on every issue. Libertarians can disagree with Libertarians on issues, just as non-Libertarians can.

Anarchism — Originally, a belief in no government. Equivalent to libertarian (see above). Today, anarchism just means Marxism. The word anarchism has been seriously debauched by the Left. They do this a lot. I have known many “anarchists” in recent years. They want big government, high taxes, lots of control so that the rich cannot be rich. Anarchists today see a great need to control people, because people make bad choices. That’s just not anarchism. It’s closer to Marxism than anything else.

Sowell describes himself as a conservative, not a libertarian. He supports border protection, etc. He’s prolife and against gay marriage, unlike libertarians who support both and label their opponents as supporters of sharia law.

39
posted on 08/03/2013 7:57:33 AM PDT
by JCBreckenridge
("we are pilgrims in an unholy land")

You seem to be using a one-dimensional model of political ideologies. A left-right spectrum does not even begin to represent reality. There are a great many two (and three) dimensional models on-line (you can look them up). While some are wrong, most are a much better than the one-dimensional spectrum. For instance, libertarianism extends from conservative to socialist, on the economic policy axis. IOW, there are conservative libertarians (or libertarian conservatives, if you prefer).

You’re using small “l” libertarianism in an unconventional way. These days libertarianism means something more like classical liberalism. That’s why when Thomas Sowell describes himself as a libertarian we don’t assume he’s an anarchist or an advocate for socialist communes or even that his interest in liberty is strictly limited to economics.

I’ll give you credit though for making a distinction between big and small L libertarianism. Some people like to intermingle the two in order to give their arguments a little assist.

JC: Apparently Rand Paul acolytes equate conservatism with libertarianism. The two are not the same.

Very true, they are not the same. But in many ways they are allied schools of thought.

JL: I dont think its a very good idea to make fun of people that are your only chance to build a winning coalition against the left.

Bingo. You don't often see union members mocking environmentalists. Liberals pull together when it matters. Conservatives, not so much. Unless another Reagan appears, I'd don't think there will be another Republican president.

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