Quote:Wonder why full contact martial sports don't have accidental deaths all the time from a random Dim Mak strike.

C'mon Ed, I've answered that question a dozen times. It isn't "random" striking that effects the problems... it's sequence, correct angle, depth of penetration... all those things you study and practice repeatedly. It's done by people trained to resucitate their victims, and hopefully treat them with correct acupuncture methods.

I just answered that for you when you asked about other methods of training in PP... remember the "training Bob" remarks? Nothing I said there has changed.

Where the misinformation is found is in equating PP specifically to DM... they are different methods using the same points. I can hammer a point in your "liver line" and cause you to collapse in pain without causing you to die... or I can hit the same point in sequence with other things that will cause your liver to fail over the next couple of weeks, or cause a hematoma that will create specific, targeted problems.

Think about it like hitting a ball. A lot of pitchers throw a ball past a hitter. Some hitters "get a piece of it" and hit singles, double, triples or make an out. Then, there are the batters who "figure out the timing, distance, and swing" and hit it out of the park. They're all trying to do the same thing using the same process, but only those that find the "sweet spot" do the damage.

Good PP players can beat you sensless without ever putting you in danger... random attacking of points, however, is like handing a monkey a gun... you never know when, where, or if it's going off... especially if you have no resucitation skills... and just because somebody doesn't kill you by hitting "a point" doesn't make it necessarily safe... there are all kinds of maladies that are caused by random point striking. That's why it's called "training"...

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What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

given all the full contact sports out there...someone is bound to hit at the exact angle, depth, point, etc

you said yourself if someone doesn't know what they are doing, then it's dangerous. well, many full-contact guys are not trained in DM, so wouldn't they be in the same danger of accidently hitting a point just right? we know that KO's happen, nearly all are caused when the brain is rattled in it's skull. somehow they manage to do that, but miss the DM ?

Quote:you said yourself if someone doesn't know what they are doing, then it's dangerous.

Obviously for reasons you refuse to understand... it's not just a matter of "hitting a point" that makes this dangerous, and the random chance of someone striking a pressure point exactly right to cause the kinds of problems that can reliably be done using pressure point training are pretty remote. Again, DM and "pressure points" aren't necessarily the same thing. Yes, they do use the same locations... sometimes even the same nerve-connective tissue-blood vessel areas, but they are not the same fight science. Selecting specific points and continually striking them, however, raises the opportunity for problems by a large margin.

Field hockey and baseball both use a ball and both throw a ball, but you can hardly equate them as "ballgames"... they are using the same tools, but have a totally different method and result. Just hammering on a point might hurt like hell, and might even do some damage... but the degree of harm goes up exponentially when done correctly using the correct angle and depth of penetration... plus, you totally ignore the "set up" and time factors of DM. The meridians cycle in 2 hour phases, and to make a correct strike, it has to be done when the correct meridian is "on". There are ways to turn them on, but that's a different discussion.

The old saying that "a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while", is more closely akin to your analysis of what goes on here with full contact fighting vs pressure points vs DM. I have no doubt that some where, some time, a "lucky" shot from full contact has caused harm to somebody... but when all the art focuses on is "force violence", it is what it is. Pressure points and DM are both more refined fighting sciences, and require both substantial training and practice with the capacity to resucitate and "short cut" the damage by applying treatment . They are not just "pounding on a point".

If you're not studying DM, stick with the 36 recognized "vital points" and just pound on them as "killing strikes". They're also in the DM book...

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What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

ah, my mistake then. I was imagining there was a larger random chance of hitting a DM just right. since the chance is remote, thats probably why we never hear of accidental deaths in DM schools...or even intentional ones. never heard of a DM death ever.

one thing thats strange though...if it's so extreamly remote - why did you seem concerned of someone trying to do DM practice without knowing what they are doing?

couldn't you just advise a noob on a forum to 'hit away' with reasonable certainty their strikes would never meet their Mak?

Quote: Ok guys stop yelling out me. I went to a dojo today and asked my sensai about pressure points. He said it was too dangerous to learn at my early stage so I'll just wait for a while.

Nobody's "yelling you out". You came to the PP board for advice, and the answers you got didn't suit you, so you "went elsewhere". I'm sure it never occurred to you that you might need some knowledge before attempting to use pressure points. They are "supplemental knowledge" for fighting skills that are fully developed. You need those skills before trying to learn different methods.

Learn a martial art first... then add pressure point training. Several years down the road, you'll understand why.

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What man is a man that does not make the world a better place?... from "Kingdom of Heaven"

I had a lot of trouble learning the GB 20 knock out ... I w ill not go into how long ago that was or how old it makes me feel. Try setting it up with a reverse shuto to the lung points on the oposite arm. If you do not know what that means, feel free to contact me at whitetigerschool@lycos.com. Once the set up is done, try hitting the point(LIGHTLY!!!) with a ridge hand rolling up. If you do not follow this, again, contact me.

The gall bladder 20 KO was my very first. I got it from a hammer lock, then just tapped GB 20 and uke was out. He said he felt it all the way down his leg. I shall try setting it up the way you suggest with lung on the opposite arm.

The one that for no particular reason, that I'd like to be able to get, is the GB 13/14/15 with a twisting palm. Some people can get that one every time. I've only gotten it a few times.Some people call it the televangelist KO. It has limited fight value but it looks cool. I'll listen to whatever suggestions you have to get that one correctly.