Bishop Farrell: Catholic-Russian Orthodox dialogue “is on a good track”

Bishop Farrell, Secretary of the Vatican office for the Promotion of Christian Unity, discusses the current state of Catholic-Russian Orthodox relations, and the possibility of a meeting between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill

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Pubblicato il
08/02/2014

Ultima modifica il 09/02/2014 alle ore 11:58

gerard o'connell

The Catholic-Russian Orthodox dialogue is “on a good track”, but it will take time to resolve the problems between them, Bishop Brian Farrell, Secretary of the Pontifical Council for the Promotion of Christian Unity, states in this second part of the interview granted to me recently. He denies media reports that the two sides are already working on an agenda for a meeting between Pope Francis and Patriarch Kirill, but does not exclude that such a conversation could begin and that a meeting could take place at a neutral venue.

Q Patriarch Kirill sent a very positive message to Francis on his election as Pope, and the Russian Orthodox seem to like how he is exercising his ministry as Bishop of Rome. In recent months, Metropolitan Hilarion, the Moscow Patriarchate’s ‘Foreign Minister’, met Pope Francis and Cardinal Scola met Patriarch Kirill. Does this suggest that a Pope-Patriarch meeting is on the horizon?A. The first thing to say is that there are a number of meetings and conferences taking place all over, and especially in Europe, between Catholics and Russian Orthodox. There’s a great interest on the part of the Russian Orthodox to build up collaboration with local Catholic dioceses and Bishops’ Conferences, and with the Council of European Bishops’ Conferences, so in that sense there’s a great deal of contact between Catholics and Russian Orthodox.Our concern is that this kind of practical interaction and collaboration should not take the place of the theological discussions, and that the question of primacy is so difficult and so sensitive for the Russian Orthodox at this time that their presence in the theological dialogue is not as solid as perhaps that of other Orthodox Churches might be.As for the meeting between the Pope and the Patriarch: last year there were statements on their part saying that it’s not that they are against it; it’s possible. So the meeting might eventually happen on the occasion of some event or celebration, but it won’t be in connection with the theological dialogue. It will be a separate event. It’s also true that they have certain conditions related to the situation in the Ukraine.

Q. Are they insisting on these as conditions for the meeting between the Patriarch and the Pope?A. Of course they are because things are still difficult in the Ukraine. There again we have to be patient because the circumstances in the Ukraine seem to be in transformation (politically speaking) and the future direction of the country is being debated at the moment, and that will greatly influence the life of the Churches there, in the sense that the problems that have always been on the table as the reason why there can’t be a meeting between the Pope and the Patriarch may look very different even in the short term, so we have to wait and see.

Q. Metropolitan Hilarion met Pope Francis before President Putin visited him. Afterwards, various media quoted him as saying that the two sides are now working on an agenda for a meeting between the Patriarch and the Pope?A. No, no! He said a meeting is possible but there would have to be serious preparation beforehand. The Holy See has always been open to such a discussion. Indeed, in very recent times, there are indications from the Russian Orthodox side that such a conversation should begin. As yet there is no specific agenda but we are moving towards one.

Q. Metropolitan Hilarion didn’t exclude the possibility of such a meeting.A. He doesn’t exclude that possibility.

Q. But problems like those in the Ukraine are still a factor here.A. Yes, definitely. The Ukraine at the moment is in a process of change, so we can’t make a prediction at the moment on the basis of the situation there.

Q. Several media outlets reported that Rome and Moscow are already planning for a meeting between the Pope and the Patriarch. Is this correct?A. No, it’s not correct, but we are moving towards a point where we may be able to begin working on a definite program or agenda for such a meeting. The possibility is there, and as soon as conditions improve it will be possible to work on that agenda.

Q. So there’s no substance to the rumor that the meeting could take place this year?A. No, there’s no real basis for supposing that, but neither can it be excluded. We have not yet talked about it.

Q. Pope Francis is obviously contributing to the dialogue by insisting that he is Bishop of Rome, and by promoting synodality and collegiality. A. Yes. And it is also good to realize that everything Pope Francis has said has been said before, and that it is nothing other than a reflection of the ecclesiology of the Second Vatican Council.

Q. He actually says that.A. Yes. The point is that between the enunciation of the Council regarding the nature of the Church, regarding the structures, regarding the exercise of authority in the Church, and the realization of that in the life of the community, there’s a big step and we haven’t in fifty years actually reached a point where we are doing all that the Council said.

Q. But the process is being speeded up under Pope Francis.A. In human processes there comes a point where thinking and talking must end and action must begin, and I think we have reached that point.

Q. Since becoming Bishop of Rome, Francis has often said that one preaches the Gospel by deeds and, if necessary, by words. In other words, use less words and just act.A. Actually I can assure you that in our meetings, and in talking about ecumenism, he has said that it is has not always been possible for him to read all the papers that come out of the dialogues but if there is something that he has to do, he will do it. This, I think, expresses the kind of person he is.

Q. John Paul II, in his 1995 encyclical on ecumenism-“Ut Unum Sint”, said he was open to a new way of exercising the Petrine Ministry, and invited input on this from bishops and the other Christian Churches.A. Yes, he did, and Benedict XVI repeated it in his visit to Constantinople. That was a very emotional moment. I remember he was speaking in the Ecumenical Patriarch’s Cathedral and he said “I wish to solemnly repeat, here in your presence, the invitation that my predecessor made” and then he referred to that text in Ut Unum Sint. And I think that’s clear.In other words, I think it is wrong for us to think that Pope Francis has come with a whole new theology, or a whole new ecclesiology or something like that. No! What he has come with is a different personal approach, where there’s a kind of impatience to see these things done and realized rather than for us to continue to talk about them.

Q. He wants to see things happen.A. Exactly! That’s clear from all that he has been trying to do here in these last few months.

Q. Before becoming Pope, Bergoglio had a long relationship in the ecumenical field with the Orthodox and the Jews.A. Yes, and with other communities too, including the Charismatic and Pentecostal. It’s clear that he is a man of dialogue and a man who understands that we can’t continue to hold up our differences. Basically what he’s doing, what he is trying to achieve is what the Council stated in the very first number of the document on ecumenism: that the Church cannot fulfill its mission as long as Christians are divided. This is the fundamental idea. And this is the deepest reason why we have to do ecumenism.

Q. What do you see happening now?A. I think there’s going to be a rather difficult time ahead.

Q. You mean with the Orthodox?A. No. With the Orthodox I am positive, except that it is going to take time. The process is on a good track, but the historical moment we are living is very difficult for all Churches and we have to realize that time is needed. The Orthodox are also in the process of preparing to hold their own Pan-Orthodox synod. That would be a huge moment. On our side, we have to wait for the results of that Pan-Orthodox synod to flow out into the life of the Orthodox Churches.But what I do see is that with the Protestant communities we have come to a point where the theological differences are overshadowed by new ethical differences. At a recent meeting in Geneva it was striking to see that when the discussion moved to the homosexual question and the question of the ordination of homosexuals and lesbians and so forth, the room divided. On the one side you had Catholics, Orthodox, Baptists, and one or two smaller Churches, and on the other side you had the mainline Protestant Churches. And then you have the ones who have decided not to decide. So this line of demarcation between tradition and contextualization or adaptation is going to be the new horizon of ecumenical work.

Q. It’s clear that the ongoing fragmentation of the Christian family is a major challenge on the road to unity.A. “Fragmentation” is a word we use all the time here as a kind of code word for what is happening and, if you wish, it is the extreme outcome of some Reformation principles. We don’t agree and therefore we divide, and that is to a great extent what is happening in many of the mainline historical Churches. It creates new problems for our Council in so far as you have groups, and sometimes significant groups, unhappy with their own Communions and wanting to separate and coming here and asking to have dialogue. Our task, in so far as is possible, is to dialogue with the official Communions as they are, but we would hope that the Bishops’ Conferences would pick up and maintain contact with these other groups that splinter and move away.

Q. Now the Anglicans with the ordination of women bishops also in the Church of England are moving away too.A. This was already in the works, and many of the provinces in the Anglican Communion have been ordaining women, also as bishops, for a long time. Now that it is the Church of England that is doing it, it becomes part and parcel of the character of the Anglican Communion and this poses a major question. From the theological point of view it is now very difficult to imagine that we are moving towards corporate unity, and the special relationship with the Anglican Communion mentioned in the document of the Second Vatican Council on Christian Unity, precisely because they had preserved the historical form of the episcopate, is very much weakened, not to say lost.

Q. So the situation looks bleak on that side.A. Except for the fact that we have to factor in the most important aspect of all genuine ecumenism, that it is a work and achievement of God’s providence. He guides and produces the results.