That is not correct though. Magnitude comes into play on how good something is doing much more than "increasing" vs "decreasing".

Otherwise, you could say that I'm gaining friends on my facebook page (went from 10 -> 15 friends), so my facebook page is doing better than WoW. That is not really correct...

Well comparing facebook and wow is a bit silly, but to gain is better than to lose in this situation. If things followed on that trajectory then the other game would be better, and this is a matter of time. Wow has had much longer than alot of games to create that base of players. Yes at the minute they have more players, money etc, but as for the future of the game it is looking to get worse for them, and better for other games. So i would say the others are doing better.

WOW has been steadily declining. Fact. But when you have as many subs as this game has it is still very financially viable.

This game has turned into cycles of sub increase and decrease. When a content patch or expansion is near subs rise dramitically. When the content has been out for a few months you start to see those sub numbers fall back off. Sure you loose subs permanently along the way but you also pick a few new subs up here and there.

Blizzard has also realized this and is why they are trying to deliver faster as its the key driver to sub numbers.

People used to play this game endlessly. I remember in BC and Wrath that logging in to stand around in Shatt or Dal for hours was commonplace. Trade chat was lively and there was always friends on. Remember your packed friends list was usually always online or close to it? It's not that game anymore. I log on my main twice a week to raid and maybe a few dailies here and there. In the past I spent the majority of my play time on him. Others who have completed what they wanted to in this patch simply unsub now and wait for the next patch or expansion.

WoW is 8 years older then GW2, Just wait after 8 years, GW2 will be as dead as it can be.

you have no proof that it will be. Nice try.

If Anet continue on the way they the future looks bright for GW2. So much content comes streaming in each month, Tomorrow comes another new dungeon, they are promoting the game in e-sports, more weapons/armour sets, more abilities to use for you characters, more balances, you can see here how they have developed new free content each month here: new content. Which is very consistent with their promises.

wow is doing okay. Wow is dying yeah, but that is because of old age, and there are just so many MMO's out there. Lets say for fun there is 100 milions gamers.
If 9 milions play wow, before in time there was less to do, so more people played wow, now with many MMO's who have a nice following. Swtor, rift, guild wars, warhammer online, LoTR,DC-online, planetsite, warframe and god know how many other games there is, it is harder for some people to say " hey will play wow" since old gamers are getting tired of it, and A brand new gamer, Lets say the first one amoung his friend, What will he pick, A 7 year old game, who he have to pay for each mouth, OR the free newer nice looking free to play game

wow is doing okay. Wow is dying yeah, but that is because of old age, and there are just so many MMO's out there. Lets say for fun there is 100 milions gamers.
If 9 milions play wow, before in time there was less to do, so more people played wow, now with many MMO's who have a nice following. Swtor, rift, guild wars, warhammer online, LoTR,DC-online, planetsite, warframe and god know how many other games there is, it is harder for some people to say " hey will play wow" since old gamers are getting tired of it, and A brand new gamer, Lets say the first one amoung his friend, What will he pick, A 7 year old game, who he have to pay for each mouth, OR the free newer nice looking free to play game

So much this.

I 100% agree that Rift, GW2 and even SW:ToR and others are doing well (doing better now than they where) and will be around for a while.

I think that the F2P model that Tera and Rift have implemented will hopefully make them financially viable for the long term.

Just because they have different business models in one aspect (sub) they dont become immune to comparisons.
I mean heck, WoW has "cash shop" in a way too. Pets and mounts. They are cosmetic items sold in blizzard store. Some F2P or B2P games have cash shops with cosmetic items sold in (in-game) store. You are allowed to compare WoWs "cash shop" with something like GW2 cash shop. Doesnt mean theres right or wrong answer if its subjective tho. or that "well wow is pets and GW2 is cosmetic gear. WoW wins"

Also I would never ever give WoW free out of jail card just because "its old". The game is great, or for some it was great. Just because its 8 years old doesnt mean you can do stuff like "easy heroic 5mans (not challenge mode), which we totally abandon and never give you any 5mans again"

Last edited by Iceleaf; 2013-06-25 at 04:08 PM.

"when women wear makeup they’re basically lying to us"
Well, I don’t see why women are being blamed if man is stupid enough to really think they have red and gold eyelids.

Right now Wow is losing players at the fastest rate than any other MMORPG... thats also a fact.

WoW is only losing more subs than any other mmo out there because it HAS more subs than other other mmo out there. Stop being being delusional. It's so convenient to take one piece of statistics and twist, warp and mold it into something so far from what it actually means that it benefits your weird obsession with wanting the game to fail just because YOU don't like it.

Just because they have different business models in one aspect (sub) they dont become immune to comparisons.
I mean heck, WoW has "cash shop" in a way too. Pets and mounts. They are cosmetic items sold in blizzard store. Some F2P or B2P games have cash shops with cosmetic items sold in (in-game) store. You are allowed to compare WoWs "cash shop" with something like GW2 cash shop. Doesnt mean theres right or wrong answer if its subjective tho. or that "well wow is pets and GW2 is cosmetic gear. WoW wins"

For sure

I buy all of that!

I ask the question I asked the other poster (but got no reply).

If GW2 has a $15 sub (and the same content it currently has) would it have....

Less Players Than Now, More Players Than Now, About The Same.

If WoW was B2P (and the same content it currently has) would it have....

Less Players Than Now, More Players Than Now, About The Same.

My entire point to the poster I was replying to was everything is subjective but he was ripping into people for posting "opinions" and saying he was posting "fact" which in actual fact was total utter BS

But GW2 is new... It doesn't even have an expansion yet. Even Classic WoW had a bunch of reason to be on the open world before BC (even if only in the high level zones). I don't think there is a reason to be in the world in GW2 other than it is fresh content.

I'm saying you don't have to only be in those fresh new areas to be getting progress towards something. Unlike WoW's "can't progress outside these areas" model.

WOW needs to battle F2P games and games you buy without a subscription these days.

It is actually the end of the subscription battle already ... because the others WENT FREE TO PLAY to still gather players around...

As I said in another (closed hihi) thread in GW2 ... (mods over there are really XXX), you can't compare players from one game that costs ZERO dollars to play with a subscription based game that costs 180 dollars yearly (in the west) to play.

So WOW is doing rather nice.

BUT BUT.... the gaming industry is NOT doing great and the MMORPG part is doing LOUSY even.

By going free to play you DEPRIVE the developpers from MUCH needed money to make these FULL 3D worlds.

And that will kill everything in the immediate future.

---

Doubts ? Why do you think the next MMORPG from Blizzard got postponed ? in favor of easy to make games like a CCG Hearthstone ?

Yep: the MMORPG's of the past are gone.

Luckily WOW will survive albeit with less players in the future.

As to F2P and B2P MMO's I doubt they even have a long term future ... (no revenue, no long term support principle)....

that thread in the GW2 section was closed because you derailed it by spouting the same tired nonsense you post in every thread, regardless of the topic. much like this one, in fact.

there was one post of yours that i picked apart point by point, explaining how it was combination of lies, bile and prejudice. but strangely you never responded to me.

i could do the same thing with this post, but tbh life is too short to waste trying to explain the same thing again and again to someone who isnt listening. we get it, you love WoW, regardless. everything that isnt WoW is wrong, in ways that only you can see. the world would be a much better place if everyone understood what you understand.

thats how you see it. to everyone else you are that guy on the bus shouting at pigeons, that nobody wants to sit next to.

When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

Over the last 10 years, Blizzard has taken over $10bn from MMO players. Take a look around your game...do you see $10bn worth of content available to you? Do you see even a tiny fraction of that in relevant content? Now ask me again why I dislike what Blizzard has done to the MMO industry.

WoW is only losing more subs than any other mmo out there because it HAS more subs than other other mmo out there.

Says the same people who boast about Wow subs being so high when the games growing... your point is purely subjective.

In business terms games with subs r either growing, remaining static or falling. The total number is irrelevant to the point i was making.

Originally Posted by Servasus

It's so convenient to take one piece of statistics and twist, warp and mold it into something so far from what it actually means that it benefits your weird obsession with wanting the game to fail just because YOU don't like it.

where did i say i want the game to fail?

Im a Wow lover... i want this game to succeed, thats why im on these forums.

Originally Posted by Servasus

WoW is doing FINE. It's not going to "die" out for a long, LONG time.

Who said Wow will die out?

I dont think Wow will EVER die out... but it will go through periods of losing subs because the playerbase r not happy. Exactly whats happening atm.

Losing 1.3mill subs within 3months, the largest fall of players ever in Wows history is a concern. If u think Wows fine then thank god ur not working for Blizzard. because Blizzard right now r actively working on turning this problem around.

I see where he comes from like I would love MSV to still be dropping decent gear for people proggesing 5.3+

One can only hope.

That wouldn't make any sense though. MSV was designed for people in primarily 463 heroic dungeon gear. If the rewards from that raid were still relevant for ToT and SoO (when it comes out), that would mean MSV's rewards are either WAY too good or newer raids are WAY too under-tuned.

MSV's gear was great for HoF and ToES and HoF/ToES gear was a good jumping off point for the beginning of ToT. Seems about right. Even back in TBC raiding, you wouldn't (shouldn't) be wearing Karazhan gear when you stepped into SP or even BT.

If we were to follow the TBC model of raiding (I raided in TBC so I have first hand experience of this), the majority of guilds wouldn't have cleared MSV/HoF/ToES and even stepping foot into ToT would be an accomplishment.

Getting back on topic, WoW is neither dying and players don't have too high of expectations - the game has just evolved into a different model. WoW still has a healthy player base and their new changes in 5.4 have been really encouraging. I predict we'll see a fairly stable number of subs going into next expansion with a steady increase once the next expansion comes out. We can re-evaluate if WoW is dying then.

Players who have played this game for a long time may feel that expectations are too high because of what they experienced back in previous expansions. However, as the game opened itself up to a more casual player base (opposed to the hardcore player base that an MMO generally has), it's only to be expected that the game evolves into something that even "casual" players can enjoy. It's not wrong for that (newer) generation of players to expect some-what equal gameplay.

It's an old game with developers that are content on persisting with the status quo instead of actually innovating or "freshening" up the game in any sort of way. Your not going to both keep around old players AND bring in the new players by creating a system that's only goal is to "make sure people see everything". Well if I'm supposed to see it , no matter how terrible I am, what is suppose to hold my interest exactly after I walk my way through the fisher price "see everything" experience?

I still love the game, this latest patch I wasn't all over, but I still overall love the game. I think one of the problems is that it is hard for an MMO to gain in popularity when it has been out this long. Very few people are going to continue joining on to play, and many of the long time gamers are getting older and have more responsibilities or are simply moving on to other newer games. I don't think it is truly dying, but it will probably slowly decline over a long period as that is what is expected to happen. It isn't that far away from being out for 10 years.

When subs dip below a million, this discussion may have merit. Until then, people are just whining and speculating over nothing. Some of the servers may be dead, and they are attempting to fix that finally, but the game as a whole is still very healthy.