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You do know that "total viewers" is not the standard that the advertising world places on ratings and where they do their ad buys, don't you?

Total viewers is one aspect of the rating games, but it's all about key demographics. And in some key "money" demographics, certain MSNBC show beats CNN shows. And on some occasions even beats out Fox.

Most of the ratings system are propriety information and is not releasable without paying for it. Do you think Nielsen and Arbitron give away their information freely? So it's kind of useless to discuss "ratings" without all the facts.

And for someone that doesn't really grasp ratings to call someone who is a professional on the ratings system dishonest is pathetic.

Sure, I know it's not the "advertising standard," but this is not an advertising or broadcast industry rag. It's a public forum where mostly just plain Joe and Jane come to discuss matters of real world importance. I think most here would consider that for the purpose of this discussion, unless you and I are advertisers, the only relevant numbers are total viewers.

The numbers your "professional" chose to use were the ones that reflected favorably on his network, and for obvious reasons... he's the President of MSNBC. It's no secret that he, along with, and under the guidance and control of GE's Jeff Immult and NBC's Jeff Zucker, have helped to run an outstanding network straight into the ground. In fact, I figure they’re about halfway to the mantle by now. NBC News is in a post-credibility posture.

I couldn't care less which network has the best ratings. I just want to hear the truth. They all have their faults, but NBC is the widely acknowledged lackey in that department, and it's no surprise when you consider that GE stands to reap untold billions if Cap & Trade (what a moronic name for an energy bill) gets passed. Think they don't have a vested interest in keeping this administration’s stem greased? Ray Charles could have seen that...

Phil Griffin made no distinction as to which numbers he elected to use, and for the claim to be made in a press release intended to be seen by subscribers and potential subscribers (lay people), it is obviously misleading to them. It's his network he's touting? See what I mean about credibility? It's the NBC paradigm.

In the daily ratings that I see (as of just Wednesday), MSNBC has nowhere near the viewers of the other two, except occasionally one hour of the day, but if you want to use the youngster demographic and two month old data, go ahead - there are a slew of cheesy network execs that would just love to talk to you about 30 second spots. The only numbers that make sense to the real world are for total viewers. That's the only true measurement of the popularity of programming, just like the vote tally in most elections (Al Gore not withstanding). The rhyme or reason that advertisers and network execs use bears little resemblance to reality.

Olbermann on occasion tops Campbell Brown, but that's the only hour of the ratings day that I ever see MSNBC topping CNN, but together they don't come close to adding up to O'Reilly's numbers.

Nielsen's May 2009 ratings are in

MSNBC Beats CNN (Again)May was the third month in a row that MSNBC beat CNN in the weekday prime demo and the second in three months beating CNN in total viewers in weekday primetime, solidifying its standing as the #2 network in weekday primetime.

Btw, Hobby, sad that you chose to quote the Huffingwindbag Post. Whether you like Sara Palin or not, they can't have a shred of decency or credibility to have run a story entitled "Palin Will Run In '12 On More Retardation Platform." Oh, you’ll find only an apology there now. They were forced to remove it in short order.

We have now went from 'dishonest' to 'misleading.' It's a press release. You put your best spin forward. Any business is going to do that. So I'm a little skepical of your motives on the discussion on MSNBC and their ratings. I suggest your motives are political. And it has no place here. Move on please. Save it for freerepublic and Newsbusters

news has never been unbiased. It's a business, that requires viewers/readers to make money. As people seem unable to do anything but gravitate towards their own worldview, all the major news organizations pick a target and go for it.

Media is a whore, always has been. Certainly it has been since William Randolf Hearst, but even going all the way back to the founding of the country, media has been targeted to like minded people. People complain about it, then continue to watch media targeting them, all the way shaking their head at the other fools watching the other media that targets them. We are all johns on the streets cruising for a good time.

Having said that, it's a new channel in HD. There is no bad in that at all. I'm happy for any and all HD that graces my TV.

We have now went from 'dishonest' to 'misleading.' It's a press release. You put your best spin forward. Any business is going to do that. So I'm a little skepical of your motives on the discussion on MSNBC and their ratings. I suggest your motives are political. And it has no place here. Move on please. Save it for freerepublic and Newsbusters

Aw, c'mon Rob. Nashcat's rantings are great. Do you really think he's running for office or employed by Fox? For the most part, the discussions have been rather interesting and thought provoking with minimal name-calling.

I agree it's off-topic but it is about MSNBC and who they are----in HD or SD. Now the leftward leaning is merely a whole lot (1080i) clearer.

We have now went from 'dishonest' to 'misleading.' It's a press release. You put your best spin forward. Any business is going to do that. So I'm a little skepical of your motives on the discussion on MSNBC and their ratings. I suggest your motives are political. And it has no place here. Move on please. Save it for freerepublic and Newsbusters

Yeah, I guess I "caved" to spare your Tender Feelings and changed it to misleading. At the very least it's that. You've actually added to my point by "explaining" his spin. Again, it's the NBC paradigm - if you don't like the facts, make up your own.

You're entitled to your skepticism. No problem. However, you would be dead wrong about my motives. I align to no political party. I’m for what I think is right for the country. Distorted reporting of the news is what has no place.

I'm glad MSNBC is now in HD (to stay on topic...) - it's why we buy the sets, but I watch all of them every day. Then I’m the judge. I suggest that if you did the same, you might be more enlightened by what you hear and see. The news, as reported, isn’t always the news as it happened. I don’t like news to have a spin put on it. On the other hand, I don’t think it’s wise to constantly tell your viewers that you’re fair and balanced, either. If indeed you are, they’re smart enough to be able to see that. However, contrary to popular opinion on the left, I think Fox News does do a better job of telling both sides of an issue. I base that opinion on having watched them all for a good portion of the day.

As an example, O’Reilly and Olbermann go head to head every evening. Olbermann will never say anything bad about the left and nothing good about the right. O’Reilly will hold anyone’s feet to the fire, no matter what side of the aisle. Don’t you think that has a little something to do with why his ratings far outpace the others combined? If there’s close to a 50-50 split politically in this country, and if people tend to flock toward the media that targets them (Mr. Miller), that doesn’t wash. We’re NOT lemmings, and we DO want to see accurate reporting. And we want our elected officials to account for their actions.

I have nothing to back this up but, I do not think we are going to see anything added to the absolute package that is not at least added to the turbo packages. If memory serves me correctly, absolute has been promised nothing since it was done away with and, the only additions that those accounts have received are channels that were added to platinum only.

I live in Montana and have all HD stations available on DISH.....except MSNBC HD. After going through the overseas call center and talking with the next tier representative I was initially told MSNBC HD is NOT available on DISH. I read the nice lady the press release.....she went away for a bit.....then was told it would be available maybe in a week or so. I see the station listed at 9511 but get the "this is a subscription channel" red box. Once again, I subscribe to all HD stations. From the forum it appears the station is available. I've done the receiver reboot, etc. Any thoughts? Thanks.....

I live in Montana and have all HD stations available on DISH.....except MSNBC HD. After going through the overseas call center and talking with the next tier representative I was initially told MSNBC HD is NOT available on DISH. I read the nice lady the press release.....she went away for a bit.....then was told it would be available maybe in a week or so. I see the station listed at 9511 but get the "this is a subscription channel" red box. Once again, I subscribe to all HD stations. From the forum it appears the station is available. I've done the receiver reboot, etc. Any thoughts? Thanks.....

Try asking for Technical Support, if you haven't already. Normally you'll get someone Stateside that can be mutually understood. Goodluck.

Btw, if you've been reading this thread, you know I get it, and it's properly mapped to 209...

I live in Montana and have all HD stations available on DISH.....except MSNBC HD. After going through the overseas call center and talking with the next tier representative I was initially told MSNBC HD is NOT available on DISH. I read the nice lady the press release.....she went away for a bit.....then was told it would be available maybe in a week or so. I see the station listed at 9511 but get the "this is a subscription channel" red box. Once again, I subscribe to all HD stations. From the forum it appears the station is available. I've done the receiver reboot, etc. Any thoughts? Thanks.....

Sometimes this happens. I had it happen to me on both DVRs when BET, SPEED and a few other channels went HD. Log onto the Dish Network website and then Support. If you look around, you'll find a way to get to Customer Care via a Chat session. You'll most likely get a stateside agent who can easily fix the issue assuming you do, in fact, subscribe to a package that includes the channel. I would think that if you're already getting CNN and Fox News in HD that MSNBC would be in the same package.

Sometimes this happens. I had it happen to me on both DVRs when BET, SPEED and a few other channels went HD. Log onto the Dish Network website and then Support. If you look around, you'll find a way to get to Customer Care via a Chat session. You'll most likely get a stateside agent who can easily fix the issue assuming you do, in fact, subscribe to a package that includes the channel. I would think that if you're already getting CNN and Fox News in HD that MSNBC would be in the same package.

Good luck.

Great tip to use the DISH chat. It was quick, professional, and they solved the problem for me. I had tried resetting, unplugging without success. DISH took care of sending a reauthorization from the chat session. Thanks.

Great tip to use the DISH chat. It was quick, professional, and they solved the problem for me. I had tried resetting, unplugging without success. DISH took care of sending a reauthorization from the chat session. Thanks.

Yeah, they should push it more. It's often much better than music-on-hold and I don't sense a language barrier.

BBC World Service (Shortwave and the Internet), BBC News International (I wish DISH will add it); this is where you get your balance. Straight news without the political spin that is from a neutral source. As for the adding of MSNBC in HD, a nice to have for adding to the HD channel count. Now, if DISH would add BBC America HD and TCM HD; these would be great additions.

I fail to see how a government-run media outlet can keep the politics out of anything. Claiming that the BBC is unbiased is like saying PBS with Bill Moyers is unbiased.