No Such Agency:Old_Chief_Scott:Poor Aunt Beru. Owen? That farkwad had it coming if you ask me (which you didn't).

Humble farmer on a dull, hardscrabble planet.Shelters an innocent boy, for decades, from literally the most powerful and evil men in the galaxy.Pays for it with his life.What a jerk.

/do you feel bad now?

Since the prequels established Vader knew the address there, I suppose it's been retconned that he personally ordered the Lars' execution over the radio or something. It makes more sense that it was just the stormtroopers being ruthless and that Vader didn't know till later, if ever. Even though it was sort of luck that the droids ended up at the farm, from Vader's point of view it would seem like a pretty big coincidence and, not knowing about the Jawas' involvement, he's wonder why Leia had sent the droids there, and think she knew something about him.

Nem Wan:Since the prequels established Vader knew the address there, I suppose it's been retconned that he personally ordered the Lars' execution over the radio or something. It makes more sense that it was just the stormtroopers being ruthless and that Vader didn't know till later, if ever.

Yeah, I was always bothered by that. I just supposed lucas wanted to make the point that storm troopers are evil, but to have them consistently act in that fashion for the rest of the movies would have cut into his toy sales..

That would be the most bullshiat and needless retcon ever (so about par for Lucas). Blasting recalcitrant peasants is really just something Imperial Stormtroopers do, if they feel like it. They are basically supposed to be the Waffen-SS in non-blaster-proof space armour.

Nem Wan:No Such Agency: Old_Chief_Scott:Poor Aunt Beru. Owen? That farkwad had it coming if you ask me (which you didn't).

Humble farmer on a dull, hardscrabble planet.Shelters an innocent boy, for decades, from literally the most powerful and evil men in the galaxy.Pays for it with his life.What a jerk.

/do you feel bad now?

Since the prequels established Vader knew the address there, I suppose it's been retconned that he personally ordered the Lars' execution over the radio or something. It makes more sense that it was just the stormtroopers being ruthless and that Vader didn't know till later, if ever. Even though it was sort of luck that the droids ended up at the farm, from Vader's point of view it would seem like a pretty big coincidence and, not knowing about the Jawas' involvement, he's wonder why Leia had sent the droids there, and think she knew something about him.

Actually, I don't believe Lucas when he said he had the whole story arc planned out (for the first 3 films), but couldn't film it because it was too large, so he went with the "first act" which became "Star Wars".

There are just too many damn inconsistencies.

First, we have the idea of Luke's father dying in the Clone Wars, killed by Darth Vader. This is retroactively "fixed" by pointing out that Obi Wan was a lying asshole.

Then we have the idea that Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker can't sense his own son via The Force. At the end of Star Wars, he does comment that "The force is strong with this one", but there isn't any recognition of who he is.

Also, the idea that DV/AS can't sense his own daughter via the same mechanism, even when he is right next to her.

Vader is under Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars. Tarkin can order him to do things and expect that he will do them (witness the force-choking during the conference on the Death Star). He mentions to Vader that Vader's plan had better work, because he (Tarkin) is taking an awful risk. Also, Leia recognizes the nature of their relationship by commenting on Tarkin holding Vader's leash. But all the subsequent films, including the last of the "prequels", have DV/AS directly subordinate to Palpatine.

I'll preface my comment with the disclaimer that I have never read any of the books.

Vader was more like an Adjutant General. He was part of the Imperial staff, not the civilian or military government apparatus. His job was to see that the Emperor's wishes and image were represented and present as the goverment conducted affairs. He didn't release the choke because Tarkin ordered it, but rather delivered a reminder that the Emperor is watching everything. He was keeping the staff in the room in line.

I'll preface my comment with the disclaimer that I have never read any of the books.

Vader was more like an Adjutant General. He was part of the Imperial staff, not the civilian or military government apparatus. His job was to see that the Emperor's wishes and image were represented and present as the goverment conducted affairs. He didn't release the choke because Tarkin ordered it, but rather delivered a reminder that the Emperor is watching everything. He was keeping the staff in the room in line.

Princess Leia: "Governor Tarkin, I should have expected to find you holding Vader's leash."

That sounds like Princess Leia, who would have been familiar with the workings of the Empire, understood that Vader was under Tarkin's control.

Governor Tarkin: "Are they away?"Darth Vader: "They've just made the jump into hyperspace."Governor Tarkin: "You're sure the homing beacon is secure aboard their ship? I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work."

The implication is that if the plan fails the penalty for it failing would fall upon Tarkin, and that it was Vader's responsibility to implement it.

Plus, I don't buy the retconning of Vader releasing Motti just because hey, He's just delivering a message. The way Tarkin orders him to stop isn't that of equals, or of an ostensible subordinate, but of someone with higher rank and prestige telling a lesser personage to knock it off. It's not a request, it's an order: "Vader, release him!".

That would be the most bullshiat and needless retcon ever (so about par for Lucas). Blasting recalcitrant peasants is really just something Imperial Stormtroopers do, if they feel like it. They are basically supposed to be the Waffen-SS in non-blaster-proof space armour.

I'm trying to think of one good retcon in Star Wars. All of them were needless, and every revelation had the Hermes in my head saying "that just raises MORE questions!"

As a kid, I remember thinking the Clone Wars were like a great game of double agents, spying, and assassinations.The clones would have just been copies of people on both sides. I miss thinking the Stormtroopers were just motivated guys from across the galaxy. The chronicle that came with TIE Fighter was great.

dittybopper:First, we have the idea of Luke's father dying in the Clone Wars, killed by Darth Vader. This is retroactively "fixed" by pointing out that Obi Wan was a lying asshole.

You should probably watch the scene where Obi Wan is telling luke what happened to his father. Clearly the acting is intended to show that he was giving a deceptive answer.

dittybopper:Then we have the idea that Darth Vader/Anakin Skywalker can't sense his own son via The Force. At the end of Star Wars, he does comment that "The force is strong with this one", but there isn't any recognition of who he is.

He never met Luke as an adult, so the force perception of his son shouldn't be something he'd recognize as he recognized Obi Wan.

dittybopper:Also, the idea that DV/AS can't sense his own daughter via the same mechanism, even when he is right next to her.

Pretty much the same answer, but in addition Luke at least had some minor training in the force, Leia had none.

dittybopper:Vader is under Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars. Tarkin can order him to do things and expect that he will do them (witness the force-choking during the conference on the Death Star). He mentions to Vader that Vader's plan had better work, because he (Tarkin) is taking an awful risk. Also, Leia recognizes the nature of their relationship by commenting on Tarkin holding Vader's leash. But all the subsequent films, including the last of the "prequels", have DV/AS directly subordinate to Palpatine.

Vader is under Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars. Tarkin can order him to do things and expect that he will do them (witness the force-choking during the conference on the Death Star). He mentions to Vader that Vader's plan had better work, because he (Tarkin) is taking an awful risk. Also, Leia recognizes the nature of their relationship by commenting on Tarkin holding Vader's leash. But all the subsequent films, including the last of the "prequels", have DV/AS directly subordinate to Palpatine.

Tarkin died in Star Wars. It would have been hard for him to keep giving Vader orders after that. And as the movies go on, the Emperor is taking more and more power for himself and dispensing with the pretense that it's still a repubilc. Vader doesn't even show up until the last couple minutes of the prequels so there wasn't any indication of where he stood in the Imperial hierarchy. Even as Evil Anakin, all he did was go murder the Jedi and then fight Obi-Wan.

There's lots of inconsistencies in the movies but this isn't one of them.

Two inner suns would be totally meh as far as I'm concerned. The system described in TFA has two suns closer than our sun and Mercery, which we can almost never see. Such a setup would be almost indiscernible from what we have here. That said, if our Jupiter was a sun...now THAT would be cool.

Or better yet, if Earth was a moon of a Jovian planet, a la the planet in Predators. Holy cow!

StoneColdAtheist:Two inner suns would be totally meh as far as I'm concerned. The system described in TFA has two suns closer than our sun and Mercery, which we can almost never see. Such a setup would be almost indiscernible from what we have here. That said, if our Jupiter was a sun...now THAT would be cool.

Try one of those Solar System simulators and see if you can make it work. I'd expect any object that occupied Jupiter's position and was massive enough to start fusion would make the orbits of the inner planets unstable, and eventually eject them. But a cool idea, worth playing with.

Or better yet, if Earth was a moon of a Jovian planet, a la the planet in Predators. Holy cow!

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 560x281]

/yeah, I know...radiation belt and all that...but still!!!

Too much radiation for us as we exist here on Earth, but if we did evolve on such a planet, presumably that would be the 'background' radiation that we were used to. Hypothetically. Another really interesting idea. Plus, the tidal forces would be totes amazeballs ... Hang ten, dude!

StopLurkListen:StoneColdAtheist: That said, if our Jupiter was a sun...now THAT would be cool.

Try one of those Solar System simulators and see if you can make it work. I'd expect any object that occupied Jupiter's position and was massive enough to start fusion would make the orbits of the inner planets unstable, and eventually eject them. But a cool idea, worth playing with.

Yep, I'll have to give that a try. If Jupiter's orbit won't work, we can always kick it out to Netpune's. OTOH, I don't need to get too realistic...I'm just day dreaming.

Or better yet, if Earth was a moon of a Jovian planet, a la the planet in Predators. Holy cow!/yeah, I know...radiation belt and all that...but still!!!

Too much radiation for us as we exist here on Earth, but if we did evolve on such a planet, presumably that would be the 'background' radiation that we were used to. Hypothetically. Another really interesting idea. Plus, the tidal forces would be totes amazeballs ... Hang ten, dude!

Yea, I know...just having fun day dreaming while monitoring the CNC slowly carving a 6'x3'x1' billet of tooling board.

Tarkin was a Grand Moff. The Grand Moff, having control over multiple sectors and lesser Moffs, reported ONLY to the Emperor. Vader, despite his power and position, was basically second-in-command when with either Palpatine or Tarkin. So Tarkin did have Vader's reins, but he also liked and respected Vader, so he did allow him to do his own thing as long as it didn't involve killing Tarkin's subordinates.

No Such Agency:Old_Chief_Scott:Poor Aunt Beru. Owen? That farkwad had it coming if you ask me (which you didn't).

Humble farmer on a dull, hardscrabble planet.Shelters an innocent boy, for decades, from literally the most powerful and evil men in the galaxy.Pays for it with his life.What a jerk.

/do you feel bad now?

Well, if Uncle Owen wasn't a selfish bastard and hadn't insisted on Luke staying for "one more harvest" and instead had decided to let Luke go to the Academy earlier, the droids never would've ended up there. No droids, no Stormtroopers charbroiling Owen and Beru. IOW, Owen's asshat selfishness is directly responsible for his demise and that of his wife. I'd go as far as to say he's an accomplice to her murder, not only for holding Luke back, which brought the Empire to his doorstep, but also for not reporting Anakin's extermination of a Tusken Raider tribe to the authorities. His unwillingness to turn in Anakin ultimately paved the way for Anakin to become Darth Vader. If anything, Owen's death at the hands of Vader is ironic.

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T:Well, if Uncle Owen wasn't a selfish bastard and hadn't insisted on Luke staying for "one more harvest" and instead had decided to let Luke go to the Academy earlier, the droids never would've ended up there. No droids, no Stormtroopers charbroiling Owen and Beru. IOW, Owen's asshat selfishness is directly responsible for his demise and that of his wife. I'd go as far as to say he's an accomplice to her murder, not only for holding Luke back, which brought the Empire to his doorstep, but also for not reporting Anakin's extermination of a Tusken Raider tribe to the authorities. His unwillingness to turn in Anakin ultimately paved the way for Anakin to become Darth Vader. If anything, Owen's death at the hands of Vader is ironic.

How did Luke's continued presence lead the droids there? R2D2 was in search of Obi Wan, not Luke. That it landed C-3PO in a family reunion at his old house was coincidental. Even if Obi Wan had followed Luke to whatever planet the academy is on, to keep an eye on him, the Organa family and thus R2D2 would not know that he left.

Question though: Was the Academy the training institution for Imperial officers? Had Luke gone, he would have started working his way up the ranks and eventually caught the eye of Vader and/or the Emperor? I presume the two of them had the foresight to have their IT guys flag the name "Skywalker" to watch for any of Shmee's & Vader's relatives who might be carrying large quantities of the Force virus.