I am just starting my SUV search and am interested in the 08 Highlander, 09 Murano, and 08 Pilot. I have never owned an SUV, so am not sure which would be the best option for a "first timer." I have read reviews and see that most people love the 08 Highlander. I love the look of that and the new Murano, but see that the Murano has very limited interior storage space and some major blind spots. I'm not quite sold on the Pilot, and am really just considering it because I know Honda makes great vehicles and it's relatively reasonably priced. Does anyone have any advice? Or suggestions on comparable SUV's that I should consider? I would also be interested in finding out how much people have paid for these vehicles in the NJ area. Thanks!

Pardon my long delay in finding a source, but I finally found the video that shows that the VDC AWD system used by Subaru can send enough power to any single wheel to keep it moving up a ramp in simulated no-traction scenarios:

Nice find, juice. Chelentano won't accept it, though, since it's not from a neutral source. Consumer Reports should set up this test to evaluate manufacturers' claims and systems... it's not a complicated or cost-prohibitive experiment.

There are better off road vehicles out there than a tribeca, but not among the CUV class. I wouldn't put my 'Beca up against an FJ Cruiser, H3 or even a Jeep Grand Cherokee. But, I've gone up some 4WD roads with it and have been very very impressed with the Tribeca's capabilities-even with the mediocre stock tires.

If better off road traction is what you're looking for, the Subie's certainly have an advantage.

Still you did not show any evidence to support your claim that Subaru AWD system would be capable of "100% power transfer to either axle".

You post another Subaru marketing video and you call it a "proof"? I can&#146;t even see if that CR-V has rear wheels spinning: it could be very well a 2WD version of CR-V. There are so many other ways to stage that &#147;test&#148;. Not just me, but a lot of people on Youtube doubt the authenticity of that video. The last party I would trust is a car salesman.

Chelentano,Sure- marketing videos may be biased to favor their brand. But I don't buy your accusation that the whole thing was rigged. (by using a 2WD CRV)

I've taken my Tribeca on some reasonably hairy 4WD roads and have been quite impressed.

If that video isn't significant evidence that Subaru's symmetrical AWD VTD system doesn't transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel- I don't know what is. But, regardless, the Tribeca is pretty dang good off road. Just ask anyone who's ever take one there.

>> I've taken my Tribeca on some reasonably hairy 4WD roads and have been quite impressed.

You should make a video then. I'd love to see in in heavy snow..

>> If that video isn't significant evidence that Subaru's symmetrical AWD VTD system doesn't transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel- I don't know what is.

Yea, I also don't know what is evidence. Nothing really. There is no Subaru offroad rally wins, no independent tests to prove that. Even the official Subaru site does not state that it can transfer 100% of its power to a single wheel. So far it's more like wishfull thinking..

>> But, regardless, the Tribeca is pretty dang good off road. Just ask anyone who's ever take one there.

At the 2:48 point, the AWD system shifts power to the rear axle and the front wheels stop spinning. That Forester doesn't even have traction control, so it can only be one thing accomplishing that - 100% power transfer to the rear axle.

At 3:08, the AWD system shifts power to the front axle, and the rear axle never even begins spinning. Again, there is no traction control, so we have 100% power transfer to the front axle.

There's your proof.

For 2009 models traction and stability control were made standard, which would aid in side-to-side power transfer. The Tribeca always had it.

I was researching the exact same vehicles before deciding on the Pilot finally. I was getting much better offers for the Value Package AWD Pilot compared to the base models of all other vehicles. The dealers seemed much more willing to dip into their holdback at Honda also. I suppose I was fairly partial to Honda's from prior experience, so that helped. As word of warning, the "compare" option for most of the vehicles seem to leave out or mislabel a few features from each competitor. That can be expected, however. Just use sites like Consumer Reports or Edmunds to get a full comparison.

As far as looks go, the Pilot is definitely not the hottest daughter. I think it still looks rugged, and somewhat refined. I wasn't looking for all the bells and whistles though. Just a basic, three row SUV to keep my family safe and not give me much trouble in the long haul. My personal opinion (and that of Motor Trend, Consumer Reports, and a few others) went to the Pilot. Resale value should be great as with most of these vehicles. Just my $0.02. Cheers!

The vast majority of WRC is not off-road. The Monte Carlo segment, where the Subaru won, was on finest French roads.

The Kenya Safari Rally - yes. That's a good example of off-road rally. Subaru won 4 times - good job, but Mitsubishi won there 8 times - great job! Dakar Rally: Subaru 0, Mitsu 12! Are you still laughing? I guess I got the best laugh :--)

>>At the 2:48 point, the AWD system shifts power to the rear axle and the front wheels stop spinning. That Forester doesn't even have traction control, so it can only be one thing accomplishing that - 100% power transfer to the rear axle.

Sorry, guys, I'm not trying to stray off topic. I'm specifically discussing Subaru's AWD systems, including the Tribeca. The Outlander is not in this thread, but its AWD system is being compared to the Tribeca's, which is.

Why not to take your Forester through the snow

I did that plenty of times, it was a ball. My family grew and I needed a lot more space so I replaced the Forester with a minivan. No more fun in the snow, the van can't hold a candle to what the Subaru could do, so....

We are now shopping for my wife and I will look at another Subaru. I will consider an Outlander but I'd like to see if it can pass the ramp test, i.e. if the AWD is truly capable of distributing power to each wheel, enough to get it to climb in those slippery scenarios.

Personally, we've owned one Mitsu and 2 Subarus, and had a better experience with the Subarus, but I'm open minded.

I could care less that you dismiss those videos. I certainly don't. To me they prove the AWD system simply works.

I wish you'd be up to the challenge and take your Outlander on such a ramp, then at least I'd know if it is as capable as you claim. Go for it, why not? What are you afraid of? :confuse:

You are talking ice. I&#146;m talking snow

Yes, because your video really says more about the tires. A Mustang with studded tires could do that. The ramps test the AWD system, not the tires.

The 2009 Forester has more clearance than the Outlander, and those are the models I'm cross-shopping, among others.

2008 Forester DOES have traction control standard

Nope, that's a different model, the XT Sports has VDC, but the one on the ramp is a basic X model, with no traction control. There are many ways you can tell - the lack of a hood scoop (not a turbo), the wheels, the mirrors are smaller, and a few other differences.

Doesn't really matter because the Forester test is only measuring front to rear AWD distribution, not side to side. It would make it up with or without traction control.

As proof, the Tribeca (which does have traction control) makes it up the ramp effortlessly.

I was pretty sold on the 09 Highlander Sport 4x4 (though I'll most likely wait for the 2010s to come out) with all the features like nav and leather etc... and then yesterday I test drove a Murano LE fully loaded and it seemed a lot more responsive in terms of steering, acceleration, and control.

I'm sort of on the fence right now because price wise they are really very similar, so I wanted to see what others have thought of the two cars, but I don't need the 3rd row of seating, I really only require AWD for going to the mountains to ski and also some room to take my dog places.

Here's what I've found:Highlander Pros * Bigger cargo area * More roomy * Better NAV/dash system * Exterior looks nicer - more manly * I trust toyota more as a brand for things like maintenance and quality.

Murano Pros * Interior seems nicer, more luxurious * The acceleration seems better ( same engine, but seems lighter ) * The rear camera has lines that show you how far things are away.

Is this consistent with what others have seen? Am I missing something?