Unlucky with the ON3P FR?

Soooo.. here we are by the end of the season and the ski that was supposed to last forever (not literally, but hold up good) has been a real disappointment.

Long story short, we're three friends who bought the same ski, the ON3P Filthy Rich after hearing from everyone how durable and good a ski it is!

Good ski - definitely true! The ski is by far the best ski i've ever skied (friends too), and it's been a blast having it.

Durable - Not really. We got our skis in february and as i am writing this, the last and third pair is being buried.

What happened? Was i because we were to hard on them? Not really. Considering we've been hitting medium sized jumps and we have a pretty basic rail game, it should not be our way of skiing that's been to hard on them? Almost every skier i know rides harder than me (and us), and their ski is still going strong.

Within the first 2 days, the first pair delaminated in the front and was sent back to get replaced. ON3P was service minded and nice and replaced the pair considering they were only 2 days old.

We skied them for another month, and mid trip to Tahoe the second pair completely delaminated just behind one of the bindings, losing all the pop and stiffness. We wrote to ON3P who then gave my friend a discount code so he could get a new pair with 40% off.

By this point, the only pair "left" was my skis that was still holding up good at this point.

It was only until this morning were i saw one of the skis had delaminated under the foot + it had several edge cracks. This left us with 3 pairs of skis within 2 months.

This might just be us who's been unlucky (we did order the 4bi9 edition which has a different top sheet originally made for the Jeronimo) but however these episodes has made me not recommending the ski even though it was really fun to ski.

Please leave a comment if you have had the same issue or the complete opposite and you are riding your FR on second season.

I do beforehand apology for my english as it is not my main language. I hope you do get the message tho.

It is surprising to hear this because of what everyone says about their quality. I know mine have held up great for two seasons of hard MN park laps and just started to have some edge problems, but other than that the skis are still solid.

It is always disappointing to see people have issues with skis. We build the best skis we can. Unfortunately, sometimes they break and we try to be fair and honest when dealing with any customer issue.

That said, we've had so few skis break this year (less than 10 total) that I know the details of 2 pairs being discussed in this thread off the top of my head.

We were told one pair broke after three runs, and though we are confident the ski broke due to an impact going against the bend of the ski tip, cause the core (still intact) to come through the top composite layer at the core/tip spacer meet, we replaced them anyway. Upon inspection of the ski upon its return to the Factory, we found no mfg error and no reason it would fall under our warranty policy. Nonetheless, we have only seen a break like this two times total and decided to replace the skis.

The second pair had an issue with a broken composite layer behind the heel if the ski. While this wasn't as bizarre as the break above, generally the only way this happens is from the ski tips or tails to be slammed into the snow.

Normally we would have the ski returned to the factory for review, but in this case a pair was given at a good discount.

I am unaware of any issues with the OP's pair, as ON3P has yet to be contacted about the damage, though I did reach out directly to find out details. 2 months straight of skiing park everyday is going to be rough on any edges, even the 2.5mm x 2.5mm edges we use. If the delam in question is covered under our warranty policy, the skis we be replaced.

Youngschoolers - I will be at work at 9am tomorrow morning if you want to reach out and get me details on whatever issues you are having.

We appreciate the feedback and take any and all ski issues seriously, as building skis is literally our life.

I think in this case, the op and his friends just seem to have some bad luck, as breaks like these are not reflective of what we normally see. The Filthy Rich has been our second best selling ski for three years, so there are a ton of them out there now. The vast majority have long life and are mostly retired only when they have hit so many rails the edges are gone. Even our hardest skiing team guys only go through a couple pairs per year, and the only reason they ever need new pairs is due to edge wear and tear. In 3 years, I think Karl Fostvedt has only broke one jib ski, and it was a prototype with a tour layup that isn't really meant for heavy jibbing. We are pretty confident with our construction and build quality. We still see issues from time to time, but have maintained a 1% warranty rate for years now.

Anyway, OP - reach out to ON3P when you are free and let us know if there is anything we can do. Thanks!

Interesting thread. Seems like a pretty rad ski, my roommate has it and loves it. It's cool to see ON3P responding like that too. It's a bummer you had all those issues I'm curious to see if anyone else out there has had similar issues.

I've broken 3 pairs throughout my skiing career. Snapped both tails on my first pair, second pair i had probably 4 feet of edge missing and the base was separating from the ski. Core got waterlogged and bindings pulled out. My last pair (which i have been riding on for 2.5 motnths) I have got about a foot of edge missing, the base is separating from the rest of the ski, and there is a a chunk of base missing that is probably an inch long by half an inch wide. Keep in mind none of these lasted me more than 3/4s of a season.

No doubt they're a super fun ski, however I won't be purchasing another pair. I personally do not think they're the best ski for lots of rails. If I were going to be skiing powder or all mountain, basically anything outside of the park, ON3P would definitely be my go to company because of how fun they are. For the park, I personally will look elsewhere.

I told her I didn't want to do the project, and she said that she would do the entire thing if i railed her up the ass, smackers and all. ~Midget.

I just broke a pair of mine yesterday. The ski completely delaminated under foot resulting in basically a telemark binding, as the binding was still attached to the top sheet. I've had them for a few seasons now so I'm not sure what you can do about it, but the way that the ski broke was extremely bizarre. Will post pics soon.

From the sound of it, the bindings holes got water in and rotted out. The bindings mat is pretty thick and holds a screw well, so if the bindings holes are no longer holding the binding in well, but the mat continues to do its job, you could see the bindings rip out and the composite layer follow it. The end result would be something like you are describing - bindings still attached to the composite layer and a clean break behind the bindings, most likely along the seem of the binding mat.

Had my filthies for a 40 day season where I mainly hit rails and trees where I regularly ski over skis and rocks just for shits and the only "issue" I've had is a 4cm by 1cm chip in the top sheet from constantly banging the snow off my skis on the lift. Bummed to hear that not everyone is as stoked as I am on them.

Not once the composite layer is broken. A pull out can be dealt with, but not a composite break. You can email us to see if we have a good single, though we honestly don't have much around as we don't see many skis break. If we do have something that would work, though, we will send it out to you for free.

Photos would be great, too. I have a file I keep with any damage we see on skis, even if it isn't a warranty issue, so we can go back and look when we need to. Thanks!

its always hard to say if it is luck, or just some products come out the wrong way or just the materials were in the best shape, i got a surface blank and i heard so much bad things about them , and for my opinion theyre pretty good!

This has always been the biggest thing for me. When guys like Karl and Kutcher and Ware only go through like 1 or 2 pairs a season it really shows how well the skis hold up. I've seen the stack of skis Dale gets from Nordica...it would blow minds, then I've heard he's gone through that stack just before he gets his hands on next years. Or Joss posts a picture like this:

and I know he'll go through that pile of skis and need more. Pros go through skis, hell it's part of their job to do so, and when you hear about (and even see, in the case of Kutcher's Jiberish FRs) how long the ON3P team's skis last, it's amazing.

So yeah, do skis break, sure, when you bash skis around on metal and smash them into the ground from 20+ feet in the air, they're gonna break sometimes, but I'm pretty sure whatever was done to the FR to break them, would have broken ANY ski (probably long before the FR broke).

Haha wow. That's like our entire team allotment of FR. For what it is worth, though, we do ask our team guys to wait until their skis actually need to be replaced to do so. In the case with some of these guys on big companies, they might just replace the skis anytime there is any damage to them. I dunno, I can't really say, I just know that even our harder skiing park guys usually make 3 pairs of park skis last for a year (fall to fall basically, one fall, one spring, one summer) and those guys ski a lot of days. If we had to give each team member 10 pairs of park skis to get through a season, we would have a team of 1 or 2.

Anyway, park skiing is tough on all skis. Hitting rails all season is going to break down the metal, no matter how thick our edges are.

Properly detuning your skis and switching your feet and direction you slide so you evenly wear the edges down helps a ton. More often than not, we see people with one edge with tons of damage, but 3 other edges completely fine.

Yeah, I'm sure they just throw a pair out as soon as they start to lose edges, but still, it's a lot of skis to go through...and I've seen pictures of Kutcher trying to pull edges out of a pair he's probably been on for almost a full season, which is crazy.

It really does shock me when people say they've broken these things. Like seriously, what are you doing to them? I would like to know how the OP broke them...I feel like there's a story not being told. I say this only because here is the 2nd of 3 pairs of FRs I've owned (the first pair I owned are still being skied to this day by the person I sold them to, and the 3rd pair are hanging on my ski rack waiting for next season...the only reason I got new pairs was because I was playing around with sizes).

The bases have storage wax on them right now, so they look a little weird, but they're in amazing shape considering (especially since the day I got a shipping confirmation on a new pair coming I went rock hunting).
This is the worst on the damage...nothing some minor filing couldn't take care of
The "other" edge crack...that's right, I've only gotten 2.
Tops are slightly chipped, but nothing crazy what so ever.

So these skis lasted the entire 12/13 ski season (roughly 80 days) and about half the 13/14 season (probably an additional 40+ days). So that's roughly 120+ days of skiing, at probably about 6 hours a day, solely in the park (I literally ski park for a living in the winter), and almost all of that time was sliding on metal. I don't baby them, but I do take care of them, meaning edge detuning before they even see snow (fairly heavy underfoot), wax about once every week or two, always kept inside, stuff like that. As you can see in the pictures, there are a grand total of 2 edge cracks, one was fairly decent, but I was able to repair it early and it hasn't budged since. Other than those 2 cracks and some very minor topsheet chipping, they're perfectly fine skis, and probably have a good amount of life still left in them. On top of ALL of that...these are reject skis. Rowan sold me them as a factor defect model (there's a part of the sidewall that is epoxy, not sidewall...nothing that bothered me) so I could save a few bucks.

So this is why I ask the question "what did you do to break them?", cause these skis lasted an estimated 720 hours of park skiing, and you're telling me you've seen 3 pairs broken in 2 months....? It just doesn't add up to me. Not trying to be a dick, just a general curiosity of mine.

So here is my read from the photos. It should be noted, I have not seen the skis in person, so it is hard to tell without getting them back in person.

Nonetheless, my feeling is the damage is definitely the result of a big impact, likely with a rail, that split the edge in two, caused the ski to suffer a slight delamination at that point (likely as a result of no deformation of the strong UHMW sidewalls we use).

Just to walk you through what I see.

1) Impact point. You can see cleared there is a very sizable edge crack from an impact.

2) Max height of the delamination. The worst section of the delam is directly at the point of impact, something we would expect with an impact-related delam.

3) The edges around the delam are still very thick, have lots of life left in them, and have no other wear and tear that would suggest a huge amount of use. While this might not seem significant, it is pretty big in this case. The more the edges are worn down, and thus weaker, the more likely the ski will delam over time as the fit between the edge and the rest of the ski is distorted and damaged from hitting rails and the such.

In that case, that edge looks solid and in good shape. To straight crack one of our edges in half like that, especially with that much strong edge around it, takes a huge impact.

The delamination is just a bi-product of that impact.

So, that is my take based upon the photos that I have seen.

The good news - the sidewalls is still intact and doesn't appears to have taken any damage. Also, the edge broke very cleanly.

These skis are very much repairable and if done correctly, should have a ton of life left in them.

I will follow up with details in an email directly to you, but if you see this first, ON3P is happy to have them skis sent to the factory and repaired by us, cleaned up, and then returned to you at our cost. Hopefully we can get that done before you and your friends return to Europe.

If they get up here and it appears like it wasn't impact related, we will go down that bridge, but based upon the photos I've seen, I am very certain in this case.

I've had similar issues with the skis, ON3P appeared to be good about trying to hook it up with new skis or some kind of replacement, but responses to emails have been far between and I am still ski-less.

Hey Elijah - still looking for a single for you. Like I've stated a couple times in this thread, we don't have a lot of singles around. I've been made well aware you need a ski by the guys handling all of our customer service. Those guys have been on the road a ton the past 2 months, which is why those emails might be coming back a bit slowly.

The team member I've been hoping will have a good single(s) for us has been in Europe for the past 5 weeks or so, but should finally be back from Spain soon. As soon as he is, I will be able to find out what we have available. I'll check in to see where things are at tomorrow.

Props to you ON3P. I rented a pair of Jeffreys recently and was pretty blown away, and now with your recent display of unparalleled customer service I am proud to say that I will most definitely be purchasing a pair of your skis in the future. Keep up your great work, I am incredibly impressed with your product and service.

*You guys should consider the sale of some cloth banners or large scale posters for those of us who are so impressed with your product, I would love to rep some ON3P (besides just shirts) and show it off to my friends. Keep doing what you're doing, because you are definitely doing it right!

You terrain park would be responsible for more deaths than Hitler. - 45.

A lot of things going on with my skis in that article are spot on with what Scott has to say. The huge sidewall crack eventually caused a delamination of the topsheet/top fiber layer which forced me to retire them.

I got my buddy onto another set and they suffered a large edge impact. From there that edge impact caused a small delam, which propagated into a large delam, and just today that ski snapped. Death by hefty buttering. At the least we have two singles destined to be together now!

To reaffirm what many others have to say, from my own perspective and experiences, the ON3P crew is doing it absolutely right in both the construction of their product, and the customer support that comes with their product. Hats off to you ON3P.

I have a pair of Jeronimos from 10/11 that I think I finally just broke on Saturday. They have been my bad day park skis for 3 full seasons and I just split the topsheet, thats it. I dont actually know if this will make my skis unrideable because the core and ski are still in one piece the topsheet has just snapped, any input?

You have to remember though bigger brands don't want ther skiers on old chipped skis they would much rather them be on a nice clean set every time. And for comps obviously the rider will want a set with a fresh base and edges. So skis are not being replaced because they are beat, in most cases the skis will go to a new home and be skied for years. It's just there is no point having a rider on a ski which is not in prime condition.

Also remember a lot of te skis you see on the feet of pros will be nothing like the ski on the shelf. The big teams are constantly trying new things and making rider requests. You won't tell as it's hidden under a normal top sheet but a ton of testing goes on so riders changing skis is partly down to this.

But I really like my on3p jmo's. They were not what I was expecting but a happy surprise of being an amazing soft snow ski. I really hope to get some of the pow skis for next season an if they ever decide to make a wider Prestor I would be all over them.

I have never skied ON3P, but still I've been majorly annoyed by all the ns-hype. So many of "What skis I should buy"-threads have these ON3P fanboys going "Dude, you gotta buy ON3P, it's the most durable, most ligthweight, best for butters, best for jibs, best for jumps, EVERYTHING!" Almost as annoying as the FT-hype when they came along.

That being said, goddamn you take your customer service seriously. Mad respect for being so direct with customers about everything related to your skis and your company. I don't even care how the skis do, it would be a pleasure to do business with you.

Sorry on mobile so can't edit the quote. The bottom part where you ask what they did is interesting though. I'm going to guess as you work park and ski it a tonn that you are a good rider and you are not learning. Now that can not be said for everyone. When your learning you are much more likely to smash skis up as you make mistakes. So seeing more warranties goes hand in hand with skis becoming more popular. When more people ride a ski you will find more people break them. So it's normal really and you are starting to see the general warranty issues which maybe were not there when the skis were being more solely ridden by experienced skiers. Unfortunately as a certain ski becomes more popular you will hear more horror stories. Obviously the ski is as good as it ever was it's just the riders who may not be a good.

No in general it's the beginners who break things. They won't be damaging edges as much always but they are much more likely to run into things and snap skis that way. Look at the op. At least 2 of those seem to be from weird impacts.

You for sure see better guys beating I skis but the damage they do is generally not warranty damage. Where as it's the more average skiers who break skis in a way where a warranty would be appropriate.

Just want to chime in and comment on my experience with ON3P. I put a good trashing on my skis and ski them long time. I've had several pairs of ON3P's and they've all been incredibly bombproof. From rocks to rails and more rails, never had any issues. By far some of the most durable skis I've ever been on.

Taking that into consideration, you can obviously see how good the customer service is when shit does go awry. Oh and they're the dopest riding skis out, so that's always sick.

For what it is worth, we know the "hype" can be annoying to some people. It can be an issue at times for us too. People will buy skis, hit rails for a year, then wonder why they have edge cracks. My feeling on that stuff can be summed up here.

We use an edge that is 38.5% thicker than the standard edge out there. But besides that, it is the same steel as everything else, hardened to rockwell 48, etc, etc. So if you are hitting rails over time, eventually the same thing will happen as a ski using a standard edge. It just takes longer to get there. Unfortunately, this is as beefy as we can make the skis to this point. We are toying with ideas to improve rail durability, but the ones we have looked into are either patented but not in use, or just unrealistic from both a cost (ski would be too much to buy) and manufacturing perspective. Something we are working on.

That two things will add on the hype are...
1) We were basically born on NS and tons and tons of our customers post in these forums. That is why you see what is probably a disproportionate number of posts in support for ON3P.

2) That said, there is reason there is hype on the forums, as the skis are really good (and I have no qualms about saying it). Even in this thread, where people are having problems, everyone really loves the skis, even though they are in the small group that have had durability issues.

OP - "The ski is by far the best ski i've ever skied (friends too), and it's been a blast having it."

Ali_Dibden - "Mine broke this past week too, still epic ski though!" (His skis has a nasty pull out after it looks to me like a helicoil was not sealed when it was installed and the core subsequently rotted away around the mounting hole).

Crispy - "No doubt they're a super fun ski, however I won't be purchasing another pair. I personally do not think they're the best ski for lots of rails. If I were going to be skiing powder or all mountain, basically anything outside of the park, ON3P would definitely be my go to company because of how fun they are. For the park, I personally will look elsewhere." (Mid-west, so spending about 90% of his time on rails. Edges are about as bad as I've seen on our skis after 40 days. I told him if we get some park ski prototypes with an improved edge design, we might send them his way as he appears to do an amazing job destroying skis).

LijeBing - "A large part of my lament is that the Filthy Riches were the most fun ski i'd ridden for the 8 days they were intact." (His skis broke similar to the first set of photos. Only two pairs we've seen do that since we went from a straight tipspacer/core meet to a rounded, much stronger tipspacer/core meet - now going on 3.5 seasons. It blows my mind how many companies still use a straight tipspacer/core meet, as it is far weaker than having the core run into the tip).

So, we are aware sometimes ON3P rubs people the wrong way in the forums. We don't have a lot of control over it, so not much we can do. We very much appreciate the support in the forums, but are even more stoked when someone posts "ON3P because reasons x, y, and z" instead of just "buy on3p", if that makes sense.

Thanks for the respect on the customer service front. ON3P is basically compromised of a bunch of NS and TGR members and we are all proud to be a part of the skiing community. When we are designing skis, it is with you guys in mind, which is why we take our customer service pretty personally and seriously, even though it is business at the end of the day.

I feel this is pretty spot on. As it is related to more or less experienced riders, I find it two fold:

1) Experienced riders have a better sense when it comes to getting their feet under them when they screw up. When skis break, more often then not it seems to be when they slam into a hard landing perpendicular to the snow (like underrotating a front flip, for example).

2) Experiences riders seem to wear their edges more evenly. A lot of this has to do with sliding both direction, and is helped even more if they are swapping left and right skis back and forth to even out wear and tear. We very frequently see skis with 1 edge in terrible shape, but 3 edges with hardly any damage as the skier slides one direction and doesn't swap skis.

There are most definitely exceptions, though. Some people are just really hard on skis. In regards to ski edges, I feel it is directly related to how someone slides on rails. If they slide flatter with the weight evenly distributed over the whole ski, I think you get a lot more life out of your skis.

If you are sliding with the skis at any sort of angle, where all the weight is on the edge, then you are going to wear through the edge much faster.

That just comes down to a style thing and there is no right or wrong. Like I said above, some people are just really rough on skis.

Lastly, seeing more issues is directly correlated with more and more sales. The percentage of skis we are seeing with issues is not increasing, so it isn't like the skis that were good 2 years ago are all of a sudden bad. We have made improvements to our skis' construction, finishing, and quality control each year and will continue to do so.

The number of skis we sell has increased, and as a result, so has the number of skis we see having issues. What is important to point out is that the percentage of skis with issues has not changed. We generally see issues with about 1% of the skis we build, which is a very small number and why I personally know every person who has had issues and the issue in question posted in this thread.

I am fairly certain I am going to buy a pair of ON3P's for next season. I hope they hold up like it seems they will. I am a stereotypical college skiier; wake up, go to class, ski the rest of the day and hope I have enough money after gas to get a meal in. However I have always loved Liberty Skis. My favorite ski of theirs, the Liberty LTE is being discontinued for next year. I need something new, and from a company with customer service that goes beyond what most other brands do. However it doesn't seem to me that Liberty compares to ON3P when it comes down to customer service. I feel that it is really important to represent a brand that is willing to stand behind their product, and represent it well and not go through all the bullshit saying that their product is the best. I can really appreciate how you (ON3P) represent your product and how you promote it to the NS public.That being said will an ON3P ski hold up as good as a Liberty LTE? My two pairs have been through the wringer. Both have lasted 2 years, and the current pair is still going strong. The first pair I had were broken by some kid in one of my lessons. I ski 80+ days a year, solely hot lapping the shitholes that are Michigans parks and teaching kids how to ski. I only have 3 edge cracks, none of which are from "normal wear and tear" but what is more on the lines of most ski places in Michigan not giving a flying fuck about their park. I.e. screws sticking out of wallrides and waterfall rails turning into step ups, not falling down. Will an ON3P ski survive a full season of this while still being ridable? I know nothing about ON3P and what their skis are like? Are they stiff or soft? And are their fat skis just as durable in the park as their more park oriented skis. On another tangent I like to use fat skis in the park as well. I love breaking out my New Lifes or Genomes and trying to throw down on something different. Does not work for the long term because fat skis are just to heavy in the park. I know this is not their intended use but it is still way fun. All in all ON3P sounds like an awesome company and I can't wait to invest in their product.

Summary:

I wanna support a grassroots company that is there for their customer.

LTE's are on their way out and I need a new pair of park skis. ON3P?

I ski in Michigan and it is sketch as fuck and destroys skis

I like to ski park on fat skis.

Would ON3P have that happy medium of a durable fat ski that I can use in the park?

That being said it depends on how fat you want your pair of ON3Ps. You say you like the LTEs which i believe are like 82 mm underfoot, but then you also like riding skis that are a 141 mm in the park. You can find fatter models than I posted such as the caylor (120), or narrower ones such as the filthy rich (88mm)

ON3P skis in theory should be just as durable, if not more durable than any other ski on the market. You can look at their website or read the rest of this thread, but they use the burliest materials possible for their skis.

I told her I didn't want to do the project, and she said that she would do the entire thing if i railed her up the ass, smackers and all. ~Midget.

Re-reading this, the point I was trying to get across was totally missed. I wasn't actually looking for a reason as to why my skis finally gave in, I was actually trying to vouch for the incredible durability of ON3P's skis. My J-Mo's served me incredibly well in and out the park for 4 seasons, since the beginning of 2010-2011 and it took till 2014 for them to sustain major damage, and it is absolutely incredible to me that a ski lasted that long.