When they come for my gun, they will have to pry it out of my cold, dead hands, is a common refrain I often hear from the Neo-Cons when there is a threat, credible or otherwise, that the US government is going to take their firearms.

And, when I hear this crazy talk, I agree with them openly. You are right. They will pry your gun from your cold dead hands, which I often follow with the question, And where will that leave you except face down in a pool of your own blood [in] the middle of the street, just another dead fool resisting the State?

This is not a question they are comfortable with, if only because the intent of their saber-rattling was to imply they would fight to keep their weapons, and win.

Nice fantasy. Its not happening.

If the federal government decides to disarm the public, and when the increasingly-militarized rolls down your street after a not-so-subtle request that you kindly turn over your firearms and ammunition for the common good, it will be nothing less than suicide by cop to do anything other than what you are told.

The militarization of US police forces is ongoing and escalating. Many cities and towns now own tanks, armed personnel carriers, even attack helicopters, and almost all are outfitted with military weapons not available to the general public.

And, it is not just your hometown cops who are getting new boy-toys. The military itself is buying up weaponry not just for use in the current or next scheduled war, but to deal with the likes of you, citizens who dont seem to understand that the Bill of Rights has been overruled, and that specifically includes, but is not limited to, the right to protest and engage in civil disobedience.

Also ignored (as if it didnt even exist) is the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 which generally bars the military from law enforcement activities within the United States.

According to Public Intelligence:

 for the last two years, the Presidents Budget Submissions for the Department of Defense have included purchases of a significant amount of combat equipment, including armored vehicles, helicopters and even artillery, under an obscure section of the FY2008 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA) for the purposes of homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities. Items purchased under the section include combat vehicles, tanks, helicopters, artillery, mortar systems, missiles, small arms and communications equipment. Justifications for the budget items indicate that many of the purchases are part of routine resupply and maintenance, yet in each case the procurement is cited as being necessary for use by the active and reserve components of the Armed Forces for homeland defense missions, domestic emergency responses, and providing military support to civil authorities under section 1815 of the FY 2008 NDAA.

And, they are not just arming cops and weekend warriors for domestic purposes. Active duty Marines are now being trained for law enforcement operations all over the world (of which the US remains a part) specifically to deal with civil uprisings, and the US government knows that civil uprisings are coming to a town near you just as soon as the fantasy of a healing economy is shattered, the US dollar fails, and unemployment goes to 30%+ in real numbers.

And, to you tough-talking Neo-Cons with your AR-15 rifles and a few thousand rounds of ammo, here is the reality: they will take your guns, and no, all your Second Amendment bluster aside, you are not going to do anything about it. You are not going to take on a platoon of Marines with state-of-the-art automatic weapons and the best body armor you cannot buy protected by armed personnel carriers and attack helicopters unless you choose to die that day  for nothing. You will either be in the country or out, and if you are in, you will stay in and you will comply.

Hell, Id LIKE to seeem used against the baby seal protesters (i.e., the protesters who should be clubbed like baby seals), and the illegal international narcoterrorists

Those people aren't a threat to the government. The threat to the government comes from people who want freedom - the bitter clingers like us. And its those who represent a threat to the government who will get nailed. The first few thousand will be toast. Hopefully after that the government agents will find themselves being proactively engaged. The biggest mistake Goering and Hitler made in the battle of Britain was switching from attacking the airfields (the ability of the Brits to fight) to attacking their cities. The freedom conscious citizenry will have to attack the government's means to extend the fight - ie the personnel directly responsible for enforcing the government's will. Don't waste time going after that idiot with the 0bama sticker on his priapus. There are 150,000,000 armed americans. If 1% engage in actively removing the threats (supposing of course the whole thing goes to hell and this Marxist scenario becomes reality), then pretty soon we will have a new government.

251
posted on 08/14/2012 8:14:46 AM PDT
by from occupied ga
(Your government is your most dangerous enemy)

“Don’t look for “Blue Flu” for anything except a pay cut or a benefits cut.”

At this point, the military is closer to the average citizen than those people are.

The police are not the kind of people I knew and respected 50 years ago. A lot of them are soldier wannabes who don’t put their money where their mouths are in a real combat situation against other professionals.

You can try to mock the special operators but that just tells me you’re ignorant of that environment completely. You were the one that brought up the dirty tricks issue but poo-poo the answers. Fine. Worship the government as you do, but math is obviously too hard for you, the girl.

They can’t round up all gun owners in 24 hours. Even if they recalled all active military, mobilized the national guard, and called up all police volunteers it would only equate to the manpower to “Round up” about 10% of the gun owning population in 24 hours. The 90% left would have no more illusions and the 10% would have taken some with them.

Without your internet connection, how would you even hear about a roundup in 24 hours?

Well, the loud popping noises in the area would be a dead giveaway. As would the sudden total loss of Internet, landlines, cell phones, etc. Amateur radio would be jammed with news. Just shutting down the sympathetic radio stations would take full forces 24 hours; news may be brief but widespread. Neighbors talk; word of mouth moves fast when facilitated by driving and verified by mysterious prolific roadblocks. And that assumes otherwise full success of your 24-hour roundup scenario, including the impossible ability to shut down the 'net all at once.

Remember: the raid at Waco, perpetrated by a large well-planned well-armed paramilitary agency with no other distractions, was stopped within the first couple minutes when their surprised soft targets (seeing the End Times unfold before them) fought back. Occupants held their own for over a month against a subsequent 10x larger far superior force. One site, a couple dozen soft targets, an unlimited attack force with incredible planning & supplies - 30+ days. You can't do that 10,000,000 times over in one day flat.

I think we are a bit more than that. We may not be a regulated militia with infrastructure, but we know what infrastructure is and should be. Such things are actually outlawed in most States but should all Hell break loose then those rules no longer apply and I think you would see our capabilities come to bear very quickly. There are millions of us that are extremely well trained and professionals at what we do. That regulated militia would happen very quickly and i think you’ll be surprised by how well equipped it is.

Thanks for playing, but your posts to me are really quite lame. Imputing to them things I haven’t written; ad hominem attack; baseless insinuations.
I quite understand I’ve ruffled some feathers, but I see no obligation to smoothe them.

276
posted on 08/14/2012 8:46:40 AM PDT
by Lady Lucky
( 'Better than the worst' is not the same as 'good.')

"Hiring more IRS all the time, buying ammo in great quantities, getting a firmer grip on the power grid and the internet...so, why do you think the govt has to do it all in one day? Without your internet connection, how would you even hear about a roundup in 24 hours?"

I wish you guys were writing the script for Iraq and Afghanistan. We would have had total victory within two weeks. Looking at the advantages of the U.S. juggernaut in isolation of our vulnerabilities is nothing new, but it's also nothing that's panned out for us yet.

The thing is, in any operation, the enemy gets a vote. Everything you do causes a reaction, which causes other reactions. If this wasn't the case, then we would have won in any number of our overseas adventures very quickly.

The U.S. military (and the paramilitarized U.S. law enforcement) are plagued with systemic structural weaknesses in thinking and execution that have crippled our ability to win wars. These have gotten worse over time and continue unabated. If you think that those flaws will do anything other than increase ten-fold were they to turn their focus inward, I've got some beachfront property on Mars to sell you.

The U.S. security apparatus is a machine of incredible, staggering strength, built on a spiderweb of weak joints. It would win effortlessly at first. Terrifyingly so. Then it will unravel at the seams as those joints rattle themselves apart or are targeted and broken.

277
posted on 08/14/2012 8:47:01 AM PDT
by Steel Wolf
("Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Gaius Sallustius Crispus)

It will not happen all at once. It will be done incrementally or not at all. The government will have to control communications before they could attempt wholesale confiscation, and every attempt to give them control of communications has been defeated so far. Try to tell the gen-x types that they should sit still and take Chinese style control of the Internet. If it is attempted, most of the technological savvy will be fighting it.

The primary fight is over communications, not guns. Guns are important, but as much for the attitude that they create as for the actual ability to shoot tyrants. Those who would enslave us hate the idea that people have that they *could* fight. It gives an independence of mind.

Here is an old but good one. The key to the government disarming the people is registration, and the attitude of the people has gotten more and more against registration:

The problem the “progressive” statists have is that they know they are losing it. They have lost the debate on gun control, and sales of appropriate militia weapons are breaking records. They have lost the MSM oligopoly on information flow, more people are getting more truth than ever before. The slow trend toward tyranny has ground to a halt, and they have to push for all or nothing. If they lose the coming election, they have lost their chance for generations...

How desperate and delusional will they be? What incredible risks will they be willing to take??

Spirited: Yes indeed. And let’s add to the mix a large-helping of green evangelicalism. Get people to worship Gaia and they’ll self-censor, self-limit, and eventually self-destruct. They’ll finally see that they themselves are the cause of every evil and that demographic suicide is the only answer.

If, due to practical issues, I am forced to surrender my guns (lost recently in an unfortunate boating accident), I know where to find more. Every seargent’s patrol car in Los Angeles has an assault rifle in the trunk. If the government arms the “Weather Service” that will make more arms available to the people.

That is what they don’t understand. The more they arm themselves, the more there is to take from them. Then there will be the units who done go along, and the supply personnel. And event individual troops who side against the government secretly.

What of nations who don’t what a JBT USA? Think they wouldn’t smuggle guns to a resistance?

Last, a tommy gun can be made in a home garage. Guns aren’t that hard to make, and we can’t stop drug labs and pot growers..

So to such a JBT government I have only one thing to say. Good luck and make your peace with God.

"You really think US Marines will fire on US Citizens defending their Constitutional Rights?"

Sadly, yes, because even the Marines are being indoctrinated to believe the Constitution is soemthing that 'wise leaders' can change at will based upon what they tell those Marines 'must be done' to save the nation. The oath a Marine takes will be used to persuade him that he has a duty the little barry bastard commies in Amerika define, and since that MArine has been a product of the public education programming, he will be loayl to the masters.

Your argument is one side is very well equipped & informed, and by making the first move can overwhelm their targets in short order.
CodeToad’s argument is that side is vastly out-numbered, so much so that just their former-fellow operators out-number ‘em by a wide margin AND are anticipating a full-on showdown. These targets may not make the first move, but they can move fast in response and, even in losing, will leave at best decimated forces behind to move on to the next target. Repeated 10% losses soon leave little to operate with.

Yes, gov’t ability must not be underestimated. Goes for the reverse, too. 10M targets wouldn’t have anyone to fight.

There is an old principle in combat, dating back to The Art Of War: let the opponent make the first move. At that moment, the opponent is committed to an action, and you are free to counter - a tremendous advantage. If this is unclear to anyone, I recommend reading Art Of War again, more slowly.

It never fails to amaze me when the other side so blatantly states their hearts’ desire, as this author clearly does, but naively thinks that the pain they want to inflict on others, via state-sponsored lethal force, won’t be reciprocated upon themselves and those that order and condone said violence.

Mr. Karger needs to realize that it works BOTH ways.

There’s a sizable chunk of folks in this country - with some pretty scary skillsets - that WON’T engage a Marine platoon...he’s correct; instead, they’ll take advantage of the opportunity to finally rid the country of the traitors and subversives walking amongst us - you know, those same sort of idiots who write articles like this to deliberately provoke bloodshed.

Karger and his ilk should be careful what they wish for; I’m not sure they really understand what goes around, comes around.

292
posted on 08/14/2012 9:12:32 AM PDT
by NFHale
(The Second Amendment - By Any Means Necessary.)

Sorry, but that’s a far cry from “mass communication”. Also, back in those days, the citizens were armed and organized, and just waiting for a signal. Even if you could still send the same signals, there are no Minutemen on the other end waiting to take up arms with you.

My late father’s specialty (as a 3 war Marine) was guerrilla warfare. He served as an adviser in Nam in 63-64.

When he returned he lamented on how our leaders had never understood guerrilla warfare, of our hubris that sheer massive, blunt force could always do it. He told me in 1964 we were going to be bogged down, spend a lot of blood, then the politicians would pull us out. He didn’t have anything nice to say about Gen Westmoreland either.

The end game for overt military repression in this country, as envisioned by this author, is a quagmire of proportions never seen in modern times. A lot of patriot blood will be spilled. The oppressors will (I guarantee this) resort to the same sort of tactics that the Germans used in WW2 to subdue large areas with limited troops. Brutality, mass murder to intimidate; dragging people from their homes at night & people disappearing. And the use of informants and traitors, of which there will be plenty, make no mistake about that.

Listen to the absolutely sickening hatred publicly espoused by so many of the left. They will be standing in line to get their brown shirts and arm bands. They will delight in the torture and murder of patriots.

Sure, isolated incidents can be handled easily by paramilitary SWAT teams and the like.

Probably ninety percent of SWAT are just poorly selected and trained SEALS wannabees. The can’t even find the right house. They panic if under fire.

They are tough stuff against collies and jack russells, and suprised people in their beds. But LEOs have made a religion out of making it home. So how well do you think they’d fair against a large and increasingly organized opponent?

“At that moment, the opponent is committed to an action, and you are free to counter - a tremendous advantage. “

The old adage, No plan survives first contact with the enemy, is exactly your comment. You *think* you know what they intend or are capable of, but then you find out the truth. Often, the enemy is not as well organized or equipped as you thought and their actions are haphazard and confusing.

Tactical planning seems to always assume an intelligent, brave, organized, trained, and well equipped enemy: We like to be arrogant in our planning as to think only such an enemy would dare challenge us. However, it gets real confusing when the other guy is an idiot and their actions are haphazard. Our military is that way: They expect Queensberry rules in war but get confused when the other side doesnt play by any rules.

III%

“They will be standing in line to get their brown shirts and arm bands.”

Very true, but that also brings back the point that while patriotic Americans are not organized, neither are they. While they take time to collect those arm bands, we take that time to collect our resources and ourselves.

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