1Biggun mentioned trying to close up the barrel to gas tube centerline to reduce bending load from the top-heavy bolt carrier. Truvelo claims they did the same to their Raptor variant.

The top picture is a Vektor H5 pump action AK. Notice how they've closed the centerline up as far as practical - the small diameter op rod just misses the top of the receiver where it passes over the barrel. Also note the nifty low profile top cover.

Looking at the small diameter op rod brought to mind the SVD, NDM-85, and Tigr, which use a short stroke floating op rod like some of the AR conversions. That would fit right in with the pump action bits.

The recoil spring would have to be moved to the buttstock, or up onto the op rod, like some of the AR conversions.

For some reason I couldn't find a picture of the SVD's gas system, but here's a Tigr bolt carrier and an NDM-86 gas block...

thanks for the pictures those pump actions would sell in california nicely are they avaliable in the US anywere?

there able to get the center line of the rod lower because there is no need for a pistion head so they can reduce the distance by close to one half.

I have considered moving the piston to the LH side and down and putting the spring in the but stock or around the pistion like a L1AI. it would look uglu an unbalanced but it would allow a amost flat cover. another option is if some one could figure out how to mill out a U shaped gas tube and a U shaped pistion with the same amount ourface area as a round piston, that curved around the barrel the center line could be reduced as well. Im sure it can be done I have seen some extruded aluminum tube that was shabed in a half moon shape and im sure there must be a way to form sheet steel in the same way.

Id like to have one of those pumps to play with. they woluld be fun in a x25 as well. Im glad that some one is thinking out side the box. seems that to many people and companys cant get away from having the crapy traditional AK dust cover and n o way to mount a scope. does the pump even have a top cover?? lools like the reciver is just higher.

here is one picture with a scope and a better top view of the vector. they need to sell these in the US. no need for compliance parts as a pump is not a assult weapon. I may have to build one of these in x25 or even a 17hmr. the tube for the pump handel cpould float around the barrel giving the barrel free floating. a pump set up like that with a heavy barrel could be very accurate especialy if the tollerances of the carrer to reciver fit were reduced and the reciver were milled. it theroreticaly could be as acurate as a bolt action. I was at one point considering ways to convert a bolt action into a pump. It can be done might be ugly but much faster shooting.

I have considered that if you made the entire rear trunion easly removable the entire bolt/carrer could be installed from the rear and the reciver would not even need a removable top cover. this would add srength and much needed stiffness. a milled reciver that had the sides extend upward and then had a flat milled cover with a intergal rail milled into it could be perminatly welded to it.

I just dont think a noncombat weapon needs to be able to be field stripped as fast. and if done right the entire stock rear trunion could detach in seconds any way.

thanks for the pictures those pump actions would sell in california nicely are they avaliable in the US anywere?

I don't know. After a year and a half of surfing AK sites, I just discovered them a few weeks ago. Being a shotgun it might not be impossible to get one imported, though.

there able to get the center line of the rod lower because there is no need for a pistion head so they can reduce the distance by close to one half.

That's why I pointed out the SVD, which has a skinny operating rod. Couple that with moving the centerline down as low as the trunnion allows, and you've closed up the centerline as much as possible, the hump over the breech being the limiting factor.

I have considered moving the piston to the LH side and down and putting the spring in the but stock or around the pistion like a L1AI.

I don't see any theoretical problem with that. It's no more asymmetrical than having the gas piston stuck up on top.

From the practical side, any projection on the bottom of the bolt carrier will have to clear the axis pins and center support as the carrier moves back. You might want to give a PKM or MG-47 the hairy eyeball to see how they package everything.

U shaped piston and gas tube? How about a round one, just use the design of the old WWII VG1-5 rifle and reverse it's function? Donut ahped gas block around the bbl, ring shaped gas piston to fit inside. Twin action bars down the sides like an 870 pump gun, you could elimiate the upper part of the carrier completely. Could even go with a short stroke gas piston.

I think a C or U shaped pistion with a flat rectangular rod would allow you to get the center line pretty low.

I would want at least a 40 mm lense on a scope and perferably a 44 mmor even bigger so I dont need to get it super low but getting it down would help ergonmics. Idealy I want the scope to just clear the barrel.

If I can get the centerline low enough I might be able incorperate the GB some how into the barrel. not sure if it would help accuracy or not.

moving the spring back into the stock would help balance it out the weight.

at some point it will no longer be a AK. I consider that point when the bolt an trunion are replaced.

I considered a round pistion that encircled the barrel awhile back. I was thinking of a U shaped one so most of the orginal AK componets could be retained.

a circular pistion could be use full peticularly if the spring pocket was lost and the spring moved into the stock. definatly worth considering. gude tube that allowed the barrel to float but in turn guided a round piston riding on it might yeild some gains.

I wonder how small of a rod or flat bar could still be used reliably cycling a AK action.

a flat bar rod on one side instead of on the top and a circular piston would allow things to be pretty slim add a rod or tube to the back to extend into the back off the reciver were the spring has been relocated would allow for a really low profile AK. at what point would the scope be to low to allow the round to be ejected?????