Willy Tarreau wrote:> On Tue, May 01, 2007 at 05:16:13AM -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote:> >> On Tue, 1 May 2007, Christoph Hellwig wrote:>>>> >>>> pcmcia-delete-obsolete-pcmcia_ioctl-feature.patch>>>> >>> ...>>>>>> >>>> Dominik is busy. Will probably re-review and send these direct to Linus.>>>> >>> The patch above is the removal of cardmgr support. While I'd love>>> to see this cruft gone it definitively needs maintainer judgement on>>> whether they time has come that no one relies on cardmgr anymore.>>> >> since i was the one who submitted the original patch to remove that>> stuff, let me make an observation.>>>> when i submitted a patch to remove, for instance, the traffic shaper>> since it's clearly obsolete, i was told -- in no uncertain terms -->> that that couldn't be done since there had been no warning about its>> impending removal.>>>> fair enough, i can accept that.>>>> on the other hand, the features removal file contains the following:>>>> ...>> What: PCMCIA control ioctl (needed for pcmcia-cs [cardmgr, cardctl])>> When: November 2005>> ...>>>> in other words, the PCMCIA ioctl feature *has* been listed as obsolete>> for quite some time, and is already a *year and a half* overdue for>> removal.>>>> in short, it's annoying to take the position that stuff can't be>> deleted without warning, then turn around and be reluctant to remove>> stuff for which *more than ample warning* has already been given.>> doing that just makes a joke of the features removal file, and makes>> you wonder what its purpose is in the first place.>>>> a little consistency would be nice here, don't you think?>> >> No, it just shows how useless this file is. What is needed is a big> warning during usage, not a file that nobody reads. Facts are :>> - 90% of people here do not even know that this file exists> - 80% of the people who know about it do not consult it on a regular basis> - 80% of those who consult it on a regular basis are not concerned> - 75% of statistics are invented>> => only 20% of 20% of 10% of those who read LKML know that one feature> they are concerned about will soon be removed = 0.4% of LKML readers.>> If you put a warning in kernel messages (as I've seen for a long time> about tcpdump using obsolete AF_PACKET), close to 100% of the users> of the obsolete code who are likely to change their kernels will notice> it.>>

> I'm sorry for your patch which may get delayed a lot. You would spend> fewer time stuffing warnings in areas affected by scheduled removal.>> BTW, I'm not even against the end of cardmgr support, it's just that> I don't know what the alternative is, and I suspect that many users> do not either. A big warning would have brought them to google who> would have provided them with suggestions for alternatives.>> Willy>>>