Not only are the rates cheaper, the Affordable Care Act looks like it’s doing exactly what they said it would — creating competition to make health insurance rates more competitive.

Originally, the non-partisan CBO predicted that California’s monthly insurance rates under “Obamacare” would run around $450 per month for the medium-level (silver) insurance plan. What reality actually shows is a medium-level plan will cost around $294 per month — before subsidies. Meaning, depending on how much someone makes, they’ll rarely pay the full rate. For instance, someone making twice the poverty line would only pay $104 per month.

Even in my state of Texas, Governor Rick Perry has done everything possible to deny health coverage for millions of poor Texas residents. While it might make for good politics in Texas as “Obamacare” is still in its infancy, the long-term political ramifications for Republicans could be massive as the states which are allowing the law to work show positive results.

I’m sure Republicans will do their best to fire up their propaganda machine to try and spin these numbers, but in a year or two when the states which have properly implemented the law are boasting lower insurance rates than the states (such as Texas) which have sabotaged the law, it’s going to be really difficult to explain why their citizens are paying more for health coverage than states which embraced “Obamacare.”

Now I’m well aware reality for most Republicans is different than it is for everyone else, but how they convinced millions of people that competition would somehow make prices increase is laughable.

As the Forbes article points out, while some private insurance companies have attempted to gouge Americans by jacking up their insurance premiums, these levels aren’t sustainable as these exchange programs begin to roll out with much lower rates.

These private companies will have very few choices. They can either keep rates high and lose a giant portion of the market share to companies offering cheaper rates, hope that people don’t switch out of loyalty to their current coverage, or lower their premiums to be more competitive.

And this doesn’t even cover the benefits we’ve seen already such as the millions of students who can stay on their parents insurance plans longer, or the thousands of Americans who can no longer be denied coverage for having a pre-existing condition.

So while it might make good politics for Republicans to muddy the waters as much as possible to make the Affordable Care Act into some monster which will create death panels and destroy our health care system — even Republicans can only deny reality for so long before it bites them in the rear end.

It’s just pathetic that millions of Americans living in these Republican controlled states will have to suffer without health care coverage, and many die due to a lack of treatment, just because conservative politicians would rather play partisan politics than just admit the truth — they lied.

Allen Clifton is a native Texan who now lives in the Austin area. He has a degree in Political Science from Sam Houston State University. Allen is a co-founder of Forward Progressives and creator of the popular Right Off A Cliff column and Facebook page. Be sure to follow Allen on both Twitter and Facebook. Have feedback, inquiries, criticism or compliments? You can email him as well.

Comments

Not sure I would trust California’s budgetary math considering their history and the financial state they are in. But why consider facts and math when you can cling to ideology.

CartoonCoyote

That’s actually the *CBO’s* budgetary math, teabagger. But why rely on reading comprehension when *you* can cling to ideology?

zerilos

I believe the new rates estimates for California come from the state of California. This don’t mean that they’re are wrong in predicting the costs, but it didn’t come from the CBO. Regardless, Mr. Burns comments were clearly based on his own ideology rather than any facts or math.

Darian G. Burns

Never met anyone who I know is a tea party member, never associated in any way with that movement or any political movement. Have voted democrat, republican, Libertarian and Independent. But assume whatever you must that allows yourself to believe whatever you must. Notice I presented facts and you responded with a personal unsubstantiated character insult. Interesting.

Catherine Schweitzer

What’s ‘interesting’ is you two sqwabbling like five year olds. Yes, Darian, he call you a bad name, but look at the facts as opposed to getting wrapped up about the language.
Are the numbers from a respectable source? If so, maybe you should check it out, instead of rejecting it out of hand. Yes, being called a tea bagger sucks, as they are ideologically driven and often thoughtless, uninterested in checking facts or learning new things. But that’s not what is important now. Sticks and stones, CartoonCoyote, sticks and stones.

The Koolaid Gospel

Excuse my ramblings. It’s late. I love your response.

“but look at the facts as opposed to getting wrapped up about the language.”

I love your use of language. I have always tried to point out how when I’ve presented a video that points out the hypocrisy of a candidate or a law that was passed and they focus on the interviewer being “rude” as opposed to focusing on the fact that they were being factual in their narrative.

Reminds me of the Piers Morgan interview when he called his guest an idiot for wanting to train children to use guns to protect themselves in school.

I showed a coworker and she would not get off the fact that he was calling the man an idiot for wanting to train children to utilize guns in case of a shooting.

It boggles the mind that it only seems to be those on the right that lose sight or never grasp this concept.

AJP2565

Nah Darian, you didn’t present facts. As California goes so goes the country.

You presented zero facts… You just stated that you didn’t trust their math. That’s no fact… That’s your opinion. BTW, with Dems in control of Calif. govt, they are projecting a budget SURPLUS of $850 million next year.

Chest Rockwell

Crazy….here’s a fact. California’s state deficit is $16 billion. That’s billion with a “B”….

California is about on par with the US Postal service. Slowly sinking and mismanaged. There is NO WAY that California will have a surplus of $850 million next year…and I’d be hard pressed to believe that a surplus of $1.00 was possible.

sciencegal

You need to do your homework.

The California budget will have a surplus for 2014 of somewhere between $1.2 and $4.4 billion. Just saying “there’s no way” doesn’t make it so!

The US Postal Service issue has nothing to do with mismanagement. Since 2006, the Post Office has been legally required to pre-fund health
benefits for future retirees at a cost of around $5.5 billion a year. Before Congress imposed those mandates, the Post Office was doing just fine. E-mail communication and online banking have also led to reduced need for mail service.

cgardner2020

I think you meant 4 Billion!

Bine646

Ohhhhh yaaa hahahahahaha sure they are

Donna Enyart Adkins

Mr. Burns, where are your facts that you said you presented? I am wanting to check sources for verification.

I’m sorry Darian but I didn’t read any “facts” you presented. I do know that most of California’s “budgetary” problems were brought about by the sterling stewardship of the astonishing Terminator and his administration along with much help from Kenny Boy Lay’s Enron Corp. and Arthur Anderson. Do your research Son.

Darian G. Burns

My facts were common knowledge. California is known for many wonderful things but fiscal responsibility is not one of them. It has a history going back through both political parties of fiscal crisis after fiscal crisis. Do I REALLY need to go dig up the proof when almost anyone with a college education knows this? If I want to know about art, music, entertainment, environmental issues and etc… I’ll listen to the state of California. If I want information on fiscal responsibility. Not so much.

sciencegal

Prop. 13

Uriah Calhoun

That’s what they do!! Haven’t you figured that out yet? You can’t argue with the brainwashed Obamabots, they can’t compute facts and information, it causes them to mentally overload and begin spewing slanderous nonsense at anyone who doesn’t believe the same as they have been “taught”

HolyXergio

BURNNNNNNN!!!!!!

TimInNC

Funny thing. California is still one of the largest economies in the world. Not in the US, in the world…all on it’s little lonesome. California is a net contributor to the US economy and the Federal Budget. Most Southern states, on the other had, are net debtors. Yes, California has problems, but they are hardly a failed system.

foodandart

That’s only because the climate is nice and people still think it’s a good place to go.. now yeah, I’ll give you that there’s a lot of Mexicans moving into the state and that will benefit that ‘net contributor’ status, but that only will go SO long before the taxation level goes up again and businesses flee. I’m living on the east coast right now and run into a LOT of monied entrepreneurs who’ve given up on California because of the taxes. I grew up in Palo Alto and won’t go back.

Liliana Joo

And yet, you don’t see Silicon Valley moving to Texas.

Big Ed

Not Texas…. Research Triangle in Charlotte NC..
Happening before your very eyes…

highrider18

but alot of California based business are moving to texas except the ones protected by the government and pay less taxes then the middle class every year. how much is a gallon of gas in California or burger or even a beer, the rates in California are tremendously higher then anywhere in the united states. Obama care isn’t hurting individuals, its hurts the growth of our nation, our innovation in our nation, and giving to the big pharmacy corporations that benefit from this. Obama has put a mask over everyone eyes of change to the lower in middle class but the rich still gets richer the poor still get poor and corruption and lies are at the capital building. he hasnt done anything for this nation except benefit his special interest that have contributed to his success and is ruing this world. When you start developing cancer from monsantos GMO’s their will be a cure for it that is backed by Democratic that will profit from patenting the human genome. If you think that centralized health care will benefit you or the person next to you then your thinking in the short run, but when it really matters to the actual name of the united states, you will be just another pawns helping someone above you benefit

tiredofbullshit

Obviously *you* can’t read because the article said the costs were lower than the CBO expected, not that the CBO gave the new rates.

Wes

lol typical Lib-tard

Avak

Our financial state is just fine, actually. Have you seen Jerry Brown’s recent budget plan? We’re pulling ourselves out of debt, which is more than most red states can say. (Or did you actually look into what the numbers actually are? Something tells me you didn’t…)

Tom

Actually, the states with the most job growth are red states, not blue.

JohnNFlorida

No pay, no benefits, no safety, and shoddy construction – of course it’s cheaper to put jobs there.

Keep the prices low enough and the corporations can even afford to re-work the production and still make a profit. That’s what Boeing is doing with the 787 fuselages coming out of Carolina. They have a special Rework Line the bodies go on BEFORE they get moved to production assembly lines.

Feel safer yet?

AJP2565

Yeah, via. corporate welfare, and minimum wage jobs at that. If you could find a water system mechanic job with my pay and benefits in one of those right to starve states I still wouldn’t live there.

lakegirl

oh Tom, actually you have no clue.

suburbancuurmudgeon

Uh, wasn’t the greatest job growth in Texas government jobs???

Burzghash

Except they’re not. Wisconsin, with its recently hardline conservative reforms, is now near-last in job recovery. The states with the highest poverty, lowest education, and lowest wages?

Yep, red states.

I know it’s fun to pretend, but reality doesn’t care about what makes you feel good sweetie.

splashy79

And YET, they are still takers from the Feds, because the “jobs” the “grow” are lower paying jobs that don’t pay enough to survive on, so they need social programs to help them.

JohnNFlorida

If the South decided to secede again, there would be a lot more tax money left over for the states that pay their own way.
If they won’t secede can we take a page from Romney’s book – sell off the assets, keep the profits and bankrupt the state. Maybe we could get a pretty good price for Mississippi from Mexico.?

AJP2565

No John, I think Mexico would laugh at us.

George Melby

As if they’re not already!

Oldetooles

California now is in the black with a surplus thanks to Jerry Brown being able to work with a legislature that has no Republicans! That’s what we have to do as a nation in 2014, take the Republicans out of the equation and we will go even farther than Obama’s administration has at reducing the deficit and putting back the surplus we had before Bush 43 put us so far in debt by lying us into unfunded wars.

AJP2565

Don’t confuse them with facts Oldtooles. It hurts their Texas size heads with Bush size brains.

TimInNC

Funny thing. California is still one of the largest economies in the world. Not in the US, in the world…all on it’s little lonesome. California is a net contributor to the US economy and the Federal Budget. Most Southern states, on the other had, are net debtors. Yes, California has problems, but they are hardly a failed system.

Jimmy C

Texas is primarily a republican and is also a net contributor to the US economy and in the south.

Don

Just be sure not to live near any fertilizer plants.

George Melby

LOLOL! Repugs would love the daring-do of that little challenge!

TimInNC

First, little Jimmy, you’ll notice I said “most of the South”. Second, Texas is not part of the South but the Southwest.

George Melby

Nah, the SW doesn’t want them either!

TimInNC

Your error is understandable though…education being frowned upon in Texas and all that.

AJP2565

And what state would our economy be in Darian? Do you know something that Gov. Brown doesn’t? We are in the black again and the housing market is approaching post 207 peaks. My wife is a underwriter and she could work seven days a week if she wanted to right now.

bropo

Oh, California … you mean the 9th largest economy in the world, which gives more than it takes back from the Federal government, unlike 80% of the nation, and is the only double-digit contributor to the nation’s GDP? That state that can’t do math?

Yeah, you are right ~ California made a serious mistake when they bought into the conservative “property tax revolt”, and have been paying the price for it ever since. The system where Republicans can block as a minority but never have to take responsibility is really messed up.

Luckily that has nothing to do with their health care exchange.

BobBoberts

Actually California just reported a budget SURPLUS (under a democratic governor with no republican opposition).

Darian G. Burns

The LA Times reported on February 18th that the surplus was due to an “accounting anomaly” and it would not last. It reported that even the Governor’s own budget office acknowledged this.

Joe Corbett

Obamacare will be Obama’S Life Cereal. Republicans will be like, Hey Mikey, he likes it!

LAKEGIRL

HUH

Bine646

Yeah being forced to pay for things is awesome! Im glad my boss is giving me a raise to help pay for this new expense (or fine), ohh wait no they arent

JonLundy

Sorry to hear you used to be one bad health problem away from bankruptcy. It must be so hard to now have a safety net.

You must really hate all that parasite free water from your tap, and interstate freeways and power grids you have to pay for as well.

foodandart

Depends on whether they have anything to lose: A lot of people don’t, so that idea of being one – anything – whether it be a paycheck or illness away from bankruptcy is a middle-class worry.

Free clue: not everyone in this country is middle-class or lives in fear of ‘what-if’s’ like you do. Some people don’t CARE about being ‘safe’.

Don’t be so bourgeois.

Tom

true foodandart that some people that some people don’t care about being safe but one of the responsibilities of a government is to protect it’s citizens which includes health. The best systems of healthcare in the world are socialized if you want to believe the World Health Organazation. But what does the worlds authority on health systems know about health systems.

Wes

Nope that is not true. The Governments Objective is to Protect it’s citizens. The actual role of the government is to Serve it’s citizens. Has always been that way, and is upheld in court as such. Has to be that way otherwise people could sue the Government anytime their house was broken into for not Protecting them.

I’m sure we can also find many countries with Social Healthcare that are far worse than Healthcare provided by the US.

The Koolaid Gospel

Access to Healthcare is important.

The quality of healthcare that people love to praise the US about is only available to a select few.

No. Living in Canada at a young age of 20 for three years taught me a lot of about the realities of access and affordability.

* Citation needed.
– US is #37 in quality of healthcare in the world.
– Every “civilized” country in the world has social healthcare
– US pays more than double per capita for healthcare than any place else in the world.

– Agreed, the Government should stop removing funding from education for programs.
– “Civilized” countries offer social healthcare, but do not force it’s citizens to use it or pay a fine.
– Laws in place at hospitals preventing Hospitals from efficient sharing patient information and collaberation.

So you look at the government postal system and public education, which both a re failing in comparison to the private sector… Now your answer to improving Healthcare for civilians is not to educate more and better doctors and help facilitate hospital communications, but to instead not change anything. But offer the same exact thing we have now, but add another layer on top in the form of Government.

Actually, the US postal system isn’t failing; it got fucked over by some legislation passed in 2005 that forces them to reserve the money for the full pension for all employees–even ones 40 years away from retirement.

The US postal service is the ONLY company in the country that services every single address in the US–because some people live so far out in the boonies that FedEx and UPS won’t service them (costs more than it’s worth).

The US Postal Service doesn’t take a single taxpayer dollar to operate.

Bine646

1) have a well 2) just discussing the ridiculous tolls in nys. Have you driven from dc to nyc lately- awesome interstate, expensive tolls. 3) most americans are steps away from bankruptcy as it is(look at debt stats along with wealth- ones increasing while other is decreasing) along with towns and cities. I was free to make the decision or take the risk in going without health insurance at this point in life- called freedom jon. Having racked up hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills in my life, i know how expensive it can be. However anyone living on their own knows- bills suck and money is short. This added expense will just take away money from another area, as with most americans. But keep telling others how to live jon

Den

When you choose not to have insurance and you get sick and can’t pay your emergency room bill, those of us who do have insurance end up flipping the bill for you with higher insurance rates.

Robert

This is the fact that the narrow-minded can quite understand.

RL

LOL, doesn’t have insurance, forces government to subsidize medical care to the hospital, and forces insurance carriers to subsidize increased hospital costs due to uninsured patients, and then cries about having to get insurance.

Noah

Government only reduces owed taxes on profit they don’t actually pay anything out to the Hospitals and I would be more concerned with the Billions in cash we pay to terrorist and foreign countries in Aid or other bribes or the 30 million Illegal immigrants that use our medical system before I am concerned with one American needing medical coverage or Care. Frankly if we did not offer welfare and free medical to foreigners then our medical system would be fine…Don’t turn on your fellow Americans because your believing the slight of hand the Governments pulling..

AlCum

And you imagine that this tax reduction or credit magically appears, eh? You’re paying for it, chum. More Republican cipherin’ at work! No wonder you guys tanked the economy. You think money is free. Yeesh.

Bine646

Many will not pay for the insurance and opt for the fine at the end of the yr. As for my personal finances, well they are just that. I go for my annual checkup and pay out of pocket at the moment- drs love the cash and in my late twenties im in pretty good health. As for the emergency room visit- people who cannot pay the bill will pass the bill onto us (as they will continue to do) but if you have a job, the hospital will get its money. I just had to get stitches, believe me

Common sense

but the penalty increases each you you don’t have it.. you may get away with it this year but not next..

Bine646

Why are you assuming i do not have a job and cannot pay my bills?

grandma

Obviously, Bine646, you have a job and you can pay for your bills because you are young and you are healthy. I hope you are thanking whatever you believe in be it God or Karma. Tomorrow, you could find out you have a metastatic tumor. You will need surgery that costs $400,000 plus. Then the follow up care and radiation treatments and chemotherapy will cost another 200,000 plus for the next six months. You cannot work, so even if you don’t lose your job whatever sick time you have will be used up and you will be on leave without pay. Who do you think will pay the over 1/2 million dollars for your care? Are you part of the 2% that makes over $250,000 a year? Even if you are do you have the assets to cover those kinds of medical expenses. Probably no. If you did you would have insurance to protect it. In the old system the rest of us would pay your bills in higher insurance and hospital fees. Insurance is nice when you are healthy. Insurance is a necessity when you are not healthy. The difference could be one day.

Bine646

Grandma im going to give you my address, come move in and tell me how to live my life, i cannot do it on my own- need liberals to tell me how to do it

actually, I hope you lose your job and insurance…then find out you have cancer…like I did . Then I wanna hear your high minded bullshit!

Bine646

So how did paying into the system work out for you? Sounds like they took your time, energy n money then dropped u when u needed them most- thats supposed to get me to support being forced to buy healthcare?

AlCum

You’re confused. That’s how it was under the private insurance system. Obamacare fixes that. You don’t seem to understand what it is you’re arguing about.

rmarqua2921

Liberals aren’t telling you what to do! They are just saying we are tired of paying your medical bills! Pay your own! The government gives you a way to pay your bills through insurance and you reject it! I don’t know you, but I am not stupid and know very well that it is I who ends up paying your medical bills! We did for years before ACA came along! If everyone like you paid your medical bills instead of bankrupting them out, I have no problem with you, but when it makes my medical bills even higher I think I can support the government who tells you PAY up, you free loader!

klhayes

God forbid you get cancer and need chemo-1 session can cost over 10,000….paying out of pocket won’t be so realistic.

Noah

And the cost of medical care is the elephant in the room, that is the issue that needs to be addressed….

le

Government regulations and Medicare have been the big cost drivers over the last 50 years, coupled with employer provided insurance (again, promoted due to government tax incentives). There hasn’t been a free market in the health industry for decades. That would be the answer to lower cost in a truly service competitive market. Obamacare doesn’t address health care or costs…it simply spreads the cost of the same failed insurance industry onto the backs of…wait for it…the taxpayer. You libs really need to stay off the Obama kool-aid.

Common sense

smoke another fatty chum.. the only people getting a tax increase are those who don’t have insurance. nice spin but you are wrong.

Noah

Actually Dan your wrong, The hospitals just offer the care and then the expense gets deducted off of the Hospitals owed taxes to the government inform of a subsidy almost….The hospital doesn’t pay anything, it gets washed out from taxes owed, but why should my wife’s C section for our first Son 6 years ago cost $48k and now my youngest 2 years ago was $98k??? She was charged $600 for Ibuprofen in the amount of 2 pills in which she never took that was mistakenly added on…for $600 she should have had a lifetime of IB for that much. The sham is the cost of medical care like Gas or college Capitalism does need to have some regulation beyond the profit margin or we are truly no different then animals. Animals only have one focus to survive we are meant to live but we act like we have one focus and that’s the responsibility to make a corporation profit at all cost.

Saltydog747

So lets put out 20000 pages of regulations to address that!! Brilliant!

Guest

No, they would rather go to the emergency room, not pay and have the rest of us pay for it for them!

Buddy Pinkham

EXACTLY!

anon

Saying you were free to make the decision to have health insurance isn’t accurate. If you didn’t have insurance, you didn’t get denied emergency treatment. Instead, the insured picked up the remainder of your tab through higher rates. That’s not freedom, it’s passing the buck.

Bine646

Just went to the emergency room and paid out of pocket for stitches- you ever hear of paying for your bills? Some can. As for my annual checkups, i pay out of pocket too- dr gives me a discount bc im paying cash

Sure, and I suppose you can also pay for surgery after you slip walking down some steps and tear your ACL.

If you have a job and you don’t have health insurance, you’re an idiot. You’re the idiot who gets hit with a big medical bill because you thought you were young and healthy and didn’t need insurance–and then the taxpayer has to subsidize your treatment when you declare bankruptcy.

You’re failing to take personal responsibility for your health.

Bine646

well thank you for your opinion, very liberal of you to give it to me. im sure you are the definition of what a human being should be- please send me a copy of your book so i can take notes and strive to be like greg weaver

1) pretty sure you werent in this conversation, enough from the peanut gallery 2) Ive responded everytime- so who is running away, plus this is an online conversation- i cannot run? 3) weaver has provided a scenario of what could happen- worse case at that. Many things could happen but for the last couple nothing has. I have taken precautions in my life once my insurance has lapsed and that is my right. I have kept up on my checkups and any procedures I have needed- paying out of pocket- yes that is possible the hospital will bill you. Its not my plan to go without insurance forever but it is my choice- if i want to risk bankruptcy and ruin my financial future (as people do everyday with home ownership, etc) than that is my right. Nothing has happened at the end of each yr so I should not be penalized ( paying a fine or tax) bc so. If you think that is freedom than you have no idea what freedom is

AlCum

Poor poor runaway Bine, he thinks freedom is being a freeloader. Hint: There’s a big difference. Your running away is evidenced by your contentless replies consisting of nothing but whining. Like most clueless conservaloons.

Bine646

yuppppppp guess this is going nowhere, its been fun cum

AlCum

Well of course it’s been going nowhere, at least not in the lying direction you tried to derail it. The truth remains the truth no matter how much you try to foist the lies you’ve been fed by your masters onto the rest of us. The numbers are in and they ain’t lookin’ good for conservaloon critics of Obamacare. Poor poor Bine will probably watch his grandchildren protesting in the streets one day, good little automaton righties that they’ll be, yelling at the government to keep its government hands off their Obamacare.

Yes, it has been fun exposing your sophistry at every turn. Thanks!

Bine646

Its alcum-ing together now, you have nothing to back up your claims- classssssic. Keep up with the childish scenarios, whatever gets you through your day.

AlCum

Looks like conservaloon Bine can’t read the story on which he’s commenting! Hint: My claims are backed up completely. Yours, not so much! LOLZ!!

Conservatives never seem to be able to back their claims.

Bine646

hahaha then he dropped an all caps “lolz” hahahahahaha. andddddddd im out

AlCum

Of course you’re out. You were out to start with because you had a failed argument. I hope you learned your lesson, that you can’t just make up crap and expect smart people not to challenge it.

Bine646

funny- just googled who is to blame for economic collapse in 2008, time magazine was the first to pop up. seems they did an article outlining 25 people who were to blame- would you believe clinton was on there! they even talked about him pressuring banks to loan to individuals so they could now afford housing- crazzzzzyyyyyyyyyyyy. hahahahaha but yup, you seem really smart cum- thats why you hit me back with those calculations, nugggggettttttttt. now get back to trolling someone else, i got other stuff to do

AlCum

Yeah, you got other stuff to do all right! Making up crap is very time consuming, I would imagine!! So now you’re relying on the lamestream media for your evidence? Too funny. If you would bother to use facts, like liberals, you would have found out that CRA-related loans were a small percentage of troubled loans and were not significant contributors to the Great Bush-GOP Recession. It was the Republican repeal of Glass Stegall combined with Wall Street gambling and middle class Americans using their home equity as credit cards. It wasn’t poor people defaulting on mortgages. If you had done research you would n=know this, but then again, doing research isn’t allowed in the right wing bubble. You’re only allowed to “think” what your masters tell you to think.

Bine646

Hey cum- now you remember you were following me hahaha. “ohh wow yeah i guess i did follow you to another conversation.” See how i was talking to greg there- dont need to hear it from the peanut gallery bro

Now i am relying on the media? Yet your whole argument for the healthcare was presented to you by the media? hahahaha ohhhhh the irony.

People werent put into homes they couldnt afford? Having to pay mortgages they couldnt afford? As home prices infalted? Cant argue the home equity- but thats still going on today.

As for Glass Stegall- pretty sure Clinton gets credit for that my man- you know he is quoted as saying “The Glass Steagall is no longer appropriate” but yessssss, keep up with the master rhetoric- loving getting people like you riled up- revert to kid shit even though they are in their 50s

AlCum

Wow are you ever in need of remedial reading! responding to your ludicrous nonsense in this thread is not “following you around.” I know this is hard for you to understand, being uneducated and all, but me staying here and pounding you into hard ground when you post nonsense isn’t “following” you around.

You cited the media, sport. That’s how you were relying on it, then you criticized me for it. Stop the glue sniffing and you might get back to normal.

Now, finally, look at these names: Gramm, Leach and Bliley. Google them. They are all Republics, not Democrats. They were the sponsors of the repeal of Glass Steagall. You’re not seriously going to contend that deregulation of the financial industry is a Democratic policy, are you? Really? Then what is Dodd Frank? Wow, the power of stupid is strong in you.

Bine646

hahaha now its all coming back to him, the same guy who says “stop name calling” then fills paragraph after paragraph of it- amazinggggggggg. diont worry my man, you can keep going- pretty easy getting “pounded in the ground” by “mmmm-kays” (my gf says that when im between her legs) and “lolz” (gays say that alot- so makes sense).

As for me citing the media, i merely mentioned Time Magazine listing Clinton- someone else has the same belief as me. It was called backing up my stance with sources. You have not provided any math, any stance other than republican bashing- this story was about healthcare, lets stay on topic. When you can get back to me with elementary math- like physicians getting reimbursed 12 bucks for checkups (which will improve how with more insured?) (getting controlled by the govt is awesome, every physician loves that) then we can have a convo- until then have a good day. try to find something else to do instead of chasing me around all day- nugggggggggggggget

AlCum

I sure got you hooked but good. Wow. BTW, when did I tell you to stop name-calling? You sure are one iggorant loon, even by the low threshold of righties.

Bine646

“I love exposing the intellectual emptiness of the right, with its reliance on nothing but name calling and emotion and fear mongering.” Alcum on man you dont remember saying this? Im starting to think you are on the far right with all these asinine comments you are spewing hahaha

AlCum

Wow, thank you for providing proof that I did not ask you to stop the name calling. Where in that quote of mine did I say you should stop? I don’t WANT you to stop because it wouldn’t be as much fun kicking your butt. Don’t you get it? So again, pony up here, bine. When did I ask you to STOP? Focus, glue sniffer.

Bine646

well cumguzzler usually when a person calls you out for something, it is usually bothering them and they want you to stop. Please keep showing your age with your gay as can be lines like “glue sniffer” “lolz” and “mmkays” you old piece of crap. You can sit on your computer and get your adrenaline pumping thinking you are young again- but you arent. you are old, you are on a computer arguing about nonsense with some yound kid- proud? you are a loser bro, enjoy arguing about the history of our country while the youth (me) set out to make history. Have fun getting wrinkly, sick, frail you bum

AlCum

Fantastic example of conservaloon “logic” on display and it explains a lot as to why rightarded policies are so moronically destructive and wrong. So poor little boy bine “thinks” that because I kick his sorry iggorant butt over his name calling, that it bothers me and I want him to stop!! LOLZ!! Too funny! Hey bonehead, I guess it didn’t occur to you that i LOVE kicking your stupid butt and that it would bother me if you STOPPED the name calling. But name calling is all that conservaloons have going for them. Please keep it up. Please reply to this so I can hold you up to even more ridicule.

Bine646

youve provided nothing to this convo but an article n paragraphs of words- althought entertaining pretty meaningless- congrats on wasting ur time

AlCum

LOLZ!! Classic projection from our fave conservaloon!! Thanks for the laugh. Great way to start my morning of kicking rightie butt.

Bine646

id be considered a liberal or progressive- hence why i follow this site???

AlCum

You’d be considered a conservaloon. That is not good.

Bine646

Its getting wierd for multiple reasons- 1) you are spending your time following and talking to only me? you a fruit or something? 2) it was fun at first when you were actually conversing with facts, now it seems you are bored and are filling paragraphs with just words? kinda childish 3) you are only talking to me? on a story that was written weeks ago? time to move on no? nowhere to move on too? thats sad

AlCum

It’s nice that you “think” I am talking only to you, but no, I am out kicking conservaloon butt all over. You’re not special, in fact you’re one of the easier ones to kick to the side. talk about time to move on!! LOLZ!! I completely PWN you and you are incapable of leaving. Why would I waste facts on you, moran? You’re uneducable. I kick your butt for the amusement of others.

Bine646

Moran? Uneducable? Pffffffffffffff, you do know that the red under words means you are spelling it wrong right old man. Please keep it up this is amazing, u drunk?

And please i can see you are not “kicking conservaloon” butt on forward progressives or any other disque site since you are in no other current conversations- called your profile buddy

AlCum

Gadzooks! I knew you were stupid but I am now realizing the incredible depth of your stupidity. Yes, you are uneducable. Suggest you look it up. LOLZ!!

BTW, “moran” is the preferred spelling of “moron” among you America-hating goobers. Check it out. You need to tell your masters that your talking points are in serious need of updating.

Noah

Not sure how name calling will help but try this…If he did slip and need surgery he would still owe 20% of total bill, no insurance that we pay for covers 100% unless your making big bux…The point is that Insurance like car insurance is a sham, you got to have it but Government does not want insurance to be by it’s true definition…If we are paying for something they are insuring us so we should be 100% covered…no some or partial ALL of our bills and they should not cancel our insurance if we are hurt then can’t work…INSURANCE IS A SHAM OF A SCAM….GET REAL WE NEED REFORM

Common sense

If you are admitted to the hospital, the ER is 100% covered..

Luc

How nice for you…Some people can’t afford to pay out of pocket…typical conservative…can’t see past your own nose.

Bine646

Yes bc i didnt work to get into my position n others have not aswell. Forgot it was all given to us

Common sense

well good for you… (clap clap) others are not as fortunate..

The Koolaid Gospel

When you pay health insurance that is has always meant that you are paying for everyone elses health insurance. If you get sick and you are without insurance then we have to foot the bill. This article is detailing how the cost controls of the governments bulk purchasing power provides affordable healthcare without the fine print. So are you saying you are acting like a 9 year old screaming that it’s not fair that mommy and daddy are making you do this. Even if its something that benefits you. Even if it is cheaper than what you have now. Even if it protects you “EVEN IF YOU DO NOT CHANGE YOUR INSURANCE” will protect you from being denied a due to pre-existing conditions.

Wait. I forgot. You are one of those that feels even the fact that we have stop signs is an affront to your sensibilities. You scream at every stop light.

“MY DOLLARS!!!”

Bine646

Screaming like a 9 yr old? You ended your paragraph in all caps? Haha
At this moment in life im ok with paying out of pocket for my checkups or other visits. I dont know why you think hospitals wont try to get payment if you can pay- please stop assuming i cannot. Kinda looking like a kid

The Koolaid Gospel

If you have even attempted to inform yourself on the law. If you are barely able to afford your current insurance you will be provided the bronze plan at no cost. Or very minimal amount.

Aaron Levesque

Right, free to go without health care and then get sick and have the rest of us pay for you. That’s true freedom, people!

RiotLibrarian

You are only ‘free’ to ‘go without insurance’, without dying, because we the tax payer step up to pay for indigent care when free riders like you decide not to be responsible and stick their medical bills to us.

Bine646

You are assuming i do not have a job and cannot pay my bills- please go on assuming hahaha

Laura Jacobson

And what happens when you need more than a checkup or stitches? What happens if you were to get in a major car accident and need to spend a month in the hospital, get cancer, a brain tumor…etc…can you afford to just write a check for that? If not, who pays? I think that is everyone’s point here. Not that you pay for your annual checkup. But something major that could cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Lvingstona

You really have no clue how much an illness can cost you on an ongoing basis. Don’t think it cannot wipe you out and make you unable to pay your bills in a heartbeat. I’ve had diabetes since I was 9. Before Obamacare, I had no choice but to work for an employer who provides insurance. I had to live with a year of paying it all myself any time I changed jobs. My costs for medications and supplies each year without insurance would come to $10,000. That’s a big hunk out of my $35,000 a year. And that is without any noteworthy health crisis. Can you handle $10,000 a year out of your income? Heart surgery costs anywhere from $30,000 to $450,000 for a single procedure, and yes, people in their twenties do have heart attacks and other heart issues, and often seemed perfectly healthy until the heart attack. Do you have money set aside for that, or should we just let you die?

RiotLibrarian

My husband broke his leg in an accident. The hospital bill is $100,000. Do you have that kind of cash on hand?

Bine646

haha i actually do to be honest

Buddy Pinkham

Tolls are not FEDERAL, they are State!

Bine646

States employ the workers to maintain the roads- point is taxes pay for the roads n we continue to pay- you arent enjoyinh them for free

Wes

LOL, Since when does Obamacare cover Interstate Freeways and Power Grids? And I pretty sure water is not handled at the federal level?

LittleGnatCatcher

Drinking water quality is mandated at the federal level. They set the maximum amount of harmful substances allowed, and require cities to test the water regularly and report on water quality every year.

At the Federal level then Water purity is a regulation correct? When we are talking about programs/services as in this case, the program and service of providing Water is provided City. The Federal Level is only a regulation as you pointed out.

RiotLibrarian

The construction of plant that provides water is largely paid for by the federal government. Most big reservoirs are built by the federal government. The west only has water because of an ENTIRE FEDERAL AGENCY that exists to provide water to them The Bureau of Reclamation–the largest provider of wholesale water in the United States).

You can’t handle water locally because water flows between jurisdictions.

You have no clue.

RiotLibrarian

Water systems only function with heavy federal subsidy. That’s what the original clean water act was really about, building wastewater treatment plants so cities stopped dumping raw sewage into rivers.

Okay so you just went from compare the service to comparing a program to a regulation. At the Federal level, you do realize one is a citizen funded program and the other is a regulation.

RiotLibrarian

Are you really that dumb. The Clean Water Act (a law, not a regulation), provide FUNDING TO BUILD WASTEWATER TREATMENT PLANTS.

Robert

yeah, so rough paying for this new expense. My monthly payment for health insurance went up a whopping $1.25
Keep believing the gop lies.

Wes

Obomacare doesn’t go into effect until October 1st.

CherMoe

George Bush imposed the MANDATORY prescription drug plan on seniors, which primarily ENRICHED the drug companies at a cost to seniors, especially considering the low amount paid until they hit the famous “donut hole.” Your boss won’t give you a raise because they’re probably Republicans and wouldn’t give you a raise anyway. They’re looking to DECREASE your pay and benefits and bust the unions. I don’t see bosses these days giving employees anything “out of the goodness of their hearts” except maybe for Costco.

MsABQ323

I totally agree with you. Employers are getting more stingy, just to put that $$ in their pockets. Yet, they expect us to work even harder, because “you are lucky to have a job.”

Pogoman

I am a business owner… if your not happy with employers, then please start your own perfect company and hire people and pay for everything… you complain about employers as if you are owed a job. You are not.
I started my business with nothing. I now employ 23 people. If you think being an employer or business owner is easy then on Monday morning do not go to work. Go register a DBA and start a business… selling something… anything. It is scarey as hell to not have a steady paycheck when you are trying to build a business. Liberals always want to crucify business owners… without us you simply would not have jobs.

You’re a small business owner–they tend to treat their employees better. As opposed to major corporations with shareholders, who tend to use employees like cattle (and suck the government teat like none other–Wal-Mart alone costs the taxpayer about $600,000 per store, per year–we’re subsidizing those low prices!)

The good news is, under Obamacare, as a small business, you will have a lot more options open for providing healthcare to your employees–your costs should go down, assuming you already offer a group plan.

I’m a liberal, and I love small businesses; it’s the major corporations that are screwing this country up.

Ginny

You have to buy car insurance.

Tom

Not if you don’t have a car.

Ginny

I have a car and a physical body, and as long as I have them I think insurance is a necessity. I have worked for many years as a Financial Analyst in the healthcare industry and I can tell you first hand that the ACA is an improvement to the current healthcare system. With time it will lower the costs. Most people do not understand how the current system works, if they did they would be demanding change such as the ACA. Most people also don’t know that it was Medicare that slowed the increase in medical costs in the past. Medicare is cost-based reimbursement for medical services. It should be apparent to anyone that if the CEO of a health insurance company is being paid millions in salary and benefits that is money that is not being used to pay for the services purchased and promised to the client. ACA requires that 80% of the money collected for health insurance premiums must be used for healthcare. If the insurance company does not meet the 80/20 rule they must reimburse the payers, businesses and individuals, an amount that will bring them within the 80/20 rule. I have worked in healthcare all of my life, except for my time in the USAF, and I am not a spring chicken, so I do know how the current system works and how the ACA will improve this system. I am sure we will have changes as we go, but thank God we are doing something to fix what has been, and would continue to be without change, a very broken system.

MsABQ323

Well, if you don’t have health insurance, then I am paying for YOU, when you get sick. That’s just not fair. If everyone has to have car insurance, then everyone should have (and have to pay for if they are able) health insurance. I’m tired of paying for YOU!

Wes

We are paying for them now regardless. Doctors don’t cover the cost of patients who come in without insurance and Hospitals are not allowed to turn people away without insurance. Obamacare is just a way for the Government to get involved.

LittleGnatCatcher

If insurance companies, hospitals, and doctors had figured out a way to provide healthcare for everyone, the government would not need to get involved.

everyone who has a car has to have car insurance. all other taxes are in return for a service. mandating a health insurance is requiring everyone to pay a private company a fee just for being alive, whether or not you receive any service. and if you aren’t a citizen or if you get fully subsidized, you get the benefits without footing the bill, just like now. it doesn’t make financial sense to be an American citizen living in America. healthcare by professionals is a luxury, just like getting a car washed by professionals – you can do it yourself without a bunch of machines and chemicals, you just have to put in more effort. if you bring up things like paying for public schools even if you don’t have kids, it’s different because you are a property owner and pay taxes for a variety of services by the municipality. the whole tax system is backwards anyway. the citizens should pay the states, which then feed to the federal – the citizens should not pay the federal government directly, it all got changed around less than a century ago and needs to go back the right way.

Ginger

Msabq323, when I was uninsured and needed care, I went to care now and just paid the bill straight up. Most of the time under $150, was much less than even a month’s premium. I broke something, I iced it and wore a brace and allowed it to heal on it’s own. Not everyone who doesn’t have insurance is being covered by others. Some of us were responsible for ourselves. Obamacare is just another fee the government is imposing by making us buy something whether we want it or not. It is true that everyone WHO DRIVES has to have insurance, but that is stills a choice. Don’t own a car if you do not have the money to be insured.

Assert Valid

$150 will get you a tylenol, who are you kidding? I suppose if someone who is uninsured runs you over and you need catastrophic care the suck it up and put some ice on it trick will be replaced with the “I need a doctor….call 911… When this same program was offered by the GOP under patient responsibility it was a great idea.

FurryDaBear

In some states that I know of, you are still required to carry car insurance even if you don’t have a car. It’s called a nonowner’s policy. No choice there.

BethRFinch

So, in other words, don’t have a life if you can’t afford insurance?

The Koolaid Gospel

You are aggressively ignorant.

AM radio is calling you.

AlCum

What, you want your stuff for FREE without paying? Freeloader. You must have missed the part where it’s LESS expensive, eh?

Bine646

Explain to me how adding millions to insurance, many who will need their rates subsidized will cost me less? What about people who refuse to pay their fines- they go to jail? So then im paying for them again huh? Cool. As for wanting stuff for free- where do you see me saying i wanted it for free nugget?

AlCum

You don’t seem to understand this at all. Are you under the misimpression that currently you are not paying for any of this? Bringing the uninsured into the pool lowers the cost. Please bone up on some economics, eh?

Bine646

Many will stay uninsured and take the penalty- soooo, that will lower our costs? Stop believing what they told you and use common sense- doesnt take an economics degree to understand this is going to be a mess- reason canadians come to the states for medical procedures

AlCum

Maybe you’re just too steeped in the phony talking points of the right, but you still don’t understand. You already are paying, and much more, for the uninsured. Now because more people are in the pool, you’re gonna be paying less. I know truth hurts, but you’ll get over it, maybe during Hillary’s second term.

Bine646

Many who are uninsured will not seek medical treatment bc of the out of pocket expense- these newly insured patients will now seek medical treatment for various things, big or small, with the majority paying a subsidized rate- by who, you and me. Insurances vary with what they pay, medicaid and medicare being some of the lowest, while continually cutting their reimbursement to drs. I dont know if you have been living under a rock for the last couple years or so but drs have been cutting/refusing to treat medicaid/medicare patients bc it is not worth it- these are businesses you know (alot of overhead). So adding a large number to the medicaid pool is going to help things? Show me your math to prove it, unless you think smokers paying double is going to help the cost hahahaha

AlCum

Looks like reality beat you, sport. Premiums a lot less than you fearmongering America-haters tried to scare people into believing! Look, with conservatives’ record of economic disaster whenever they’re at the helm, NO ONE take your figuring seriously!

Bine646

hahaha reality beat me? I asked you to show me your math cum- all you are giving me is gargles- still waiting here buddy. It really funny how you bash conservatives for economic disasters and believe a california budget committee hahahahaha. You totally neglect the fact that Clinton balanced the books in his tenure with a republican controlled congress (who wrote in one bill what took clinton 5 revisions to match). Speaking of economic collapse- you ever hear of the affordable homeowner act and encouraging banks to give loans to individuals to purchase them? Yeah thanks clinton, home crisis was a pretty big economic disaster right cum? Please get back to me with your math, you can do it- dont rely on others, come on- do it yourself cum

AlCum

Yep, reality beat you, like it did in this response as well. Everyone, notice how when facts show conservatives wrong, they always resort to personal attacks? So typical. And thanks for showing that you know nothing about the housing collapse and the Great Bush-GOP Recession. Yet another brainwashed boob! “Affordable Homeowner Act!” Too funny! You can’t even lie correctly. What an amateur.

Wow, I was able to help edjumacate a mouthbreathing conservatard! Yay me! Yes, the Community Reinvestment Act, which conservatards line Bine love to try to blame but without any facts. In fact, the CRA was not responsible for the housing collapse, it was your middle class suburban repubadubs overextending their home equity and using their houses as credit cards. Poor Bine doesn’t realize this has been investigated and reported. Oh well, another conservative lie bites the dust. But you are right about one thing, the Republic’s was on the middle class, which included the GOP repeal of Glass Steagall. put in place after the First Republican Great Depression to help prevent another one, was the main cause of the Bush-GOP Great Recession.

Bine646

Still nothing on our original topic- you coming up with math to back up your insurance argument, predictable. As for this “bush” collapse, clinton gets no credit for being in power and signing such bills yet you give bush all the credit in the world- george w bush? hahaha, please get back to our original topic and stop wasting our time talking about that guy, hes history now

AlCum

The insurance “argument” was never in dispute, sport. The numbers are there. You’re just ignoring them. Sorry that you were brainwashed by the Tea Partiers. Now you try to go back to Clinton while whining about me blaming Bush? First, sport, I didn’t blame Bush for the repeal of Glass Steagall, that was sponsored by three GOP members of Congress. Fact. Sorry for your cognitive dissonance.

Meanwhile: Obamacare keeps on saving Americans money!

Really sucks to be a conservaloon these days!

Bine646

lets think about it like this since you refuse to back up any of your argument- yes this is an insurance article (stop making it about bush bro)- medicaid and medicare have been cutting what they pay to doctors- why? bc there are alot of people joining these programs. So by expanding these programs, bc many will not be provided private insurance or be able to afford but will now qualify ( receive a subsidized rate ) it will cost us ( the tax payers ) more, however you look at it. Bc doctors have been refusing to accept new medicaid/medicare patients bc of this low reimbursement. For example (and this is just dentistry which is not the same as medical but a good example), medicaid pays 70 bucks for a filling while private insurance pays 190. Why would a dr, who is running a business, accept all medicaid patients? To be competitive these rates will need to be comparable (ie we will need to pay more to make them), rememeber the cost of schooling these doctors are paying- school loans are not free and after making a certain income not tax deductable plus all the overhead of running a practice- unless you want those state run too?

AlCum

Poor poor conservaloon Bine, still obsessing about his Messiah Bush and a tad touchy about his phony charge that I’m the one discussing him! Bine still can’t get over the fact that Obamacare costs are coming in UNDER projections. It looks like he believed his masters when they ordered him to think that Obamacare was bad, after all conservatives were ordered during the Clinton years to believe that Obamacare, or Romneycare or more specifically at the time, the Heritage Foundation’s individual mandate, was good good good! People have to be really really stupid to be conservatives these days.

Bine646

Werent you the one who said acouple posts ago that “conservatives resort to name calling when they have nothing else to say”? Only to continue with paragraphs filled with the nonsense, amazing.
As for Bush being the messiah- bahahahahahahaha, thanks for that. I have no idea you obsession with Bush or what led you to believe I think he was an excellent leader? Guy issued tax breaks during a time of war? Not the best idea and even you can figure out that math. I was just stating that the problems were brewing before Bush took over, you cannot give him all the credit.
As for me believing expanding an already broken system while not fixing the problems first, well I can think whatever I want- called freedom. You know what isnt free- a government forcing me to get health insurance or receive a fine (which we all know what happens when you do not pay the irs). But yes go on and continue to say the costs are “projected” to under first estimates- whoppie do, get back to me next year when that is actually a fact. Not going to argue about what “could” happen or what its going to cost, it will cost something (you have noticed more taxes coming out of your checks right? get use to it- especially if you are successful)

I ain’t seen a dodge quite that bad since the Dart I owner in high school. No, sport, I love winning, which is what my superior arguments do to your made-up conservaloon claims. We show you the numbers and you still whine about wanting numbers. We prove you wrong on the housing collapse cause and you run away to some other topic. I love it. I love exposing the intellectual emptiness of the right, with its reliance on nothing but name calling and emotion and fear mongering.

Bine646

please keep showing your age- didnt have to attend college to get a job in those days either right, showssssssss. hahahaha
yes, you took one article from the great state of california (they are great with budgets there) and ran with it. you did absolutely no work but you can take credit for a “superior” argument which is not even yours. What you have buddy is a belief, not an argument.
As for the housing collapse, i could continue to argue with you about it but its in the history books- up to the people to decide. You will tell everyone you come into contact with (most likely your grandchildren if you ever found a woman- might be hard if you drop “lolZ” tho, girls like hanging out with gays, not marrying them) that the great george bush in 3 yrs of power created the largest housing crisis in the history of the us. then they will attend school and learn that grandpa isnt the sharpest tool in the shed, just the densest and infact nothing that catastrophic could happen in 3 yrs by 1 person. they will learn it took years, multiple presidents and congresses to allow the greed to occur.

as for fearmongering and name calling- hahahaha how soft are you? ive been holding back letting the conservaloon comments roll off my shoulders- mostly bc its ridiculous and not the best description of me, but then again its being made from a guy who is following me online but has never met me- ahhhhhh technology

AlCum

Wow, the fact that I am proven correct really gets under your skin, doesn’t it. Your howling at the wind is quite amusing to your betters. Facts speak for themselves. As for the housing collapse, if you continued to argue you would simply continue to be wrong. Again, facts are pesky things to conservaloons. Yes, it’s in the history books and they prove me right. CRA related loans defaulted at a much lower rate than your typical suburban overextended family using the house as a credit card. This is simply a proven fact you cannot deal with. Sorry. I don’t extend mercy to you conservaloons since your policies proved so harmful to the nation. you don’t deserve it. You hate this country and its people.

I especially love how you construct phony straw man arguments and then pretend to knock them down as though that proves me wrong — an impossible task. You’ve even argued with my point about the GOP repeal of Glass Steagall, which preceded Bush, yet then pretend that I’m saying Bush created the crisis in three years (By the way, Einstein, great arithmetic skills there — three years? LOLZ!!)

You’re circling the drain.

Bine646

keep showing your age hahaha. I see your “superior” arguments is using an article which someone else wrote. Not very intelligent to rely solely on a California budget committee- they are really good with money as their current state is showing. As for proving me wrong on the housing collapse- well its in the history books. Up for everyone to decide and debate- you will tell everyone you come in contact with (most likely your grandchildren) that GW was to blame- bush did it all. Then they will go to school and learn that in fact gpa isnt the sharpest tool in the shed- rather the densest- and the housing collapse was years in the making. Something so gigantic can not be the work of one person, rather multiple presidents, congresses and individuals. I also like how you claim am “on the right” a “conservaloon” (others call me liberal) or resorting to name calling (whats conservaloon?) and fear mongering hahaha- pretty soft huh sport? ive been holding back on the alcum jokes so relax, it could be much worse- kinda like your debates

AlCum

Using an article that someone else wrote is a problem with you? Holy cow. You’re desperate now. I flushed you and you’re circling the drain. I’d say you’re starting to make no sense, but you were that was from your first post!

You must be sniffing glue if you “think” I said George Bush did all this. It’s been a while since I’ve hooked a conservaloon as vapid as you. Thanks!

Bine646

dodge dart in high school huh- keep showing your age. As for your “superior” arguments, you stole someone elses article? wow, good work- way to show your intelligence. “We” you must mean “them”, which is a california budget committee- hahahahahaha. Id take this sole article as all the proof i need accept for the fact that its a california committee- we see how good they are with their own books. As for the housing collapse, thats in the history books- up to everyone to decide. You, it appears, will tell everyone (most likely your grandchildren) that it was GWs fault- that idiot caused it all. Then they will attend school and learn that grandpa isnt the sharpest tool in the shed- rather the densest- and no one man (especially bush) could of create that disaster. They will learn in took years, multiple presidents, congresses and individuals to create the housing crisis.
Now lets get to my reliance on “name calling” and fear mongering- what do you call “conservaloon”? I have been going pretty easy, you cant be that soft? And you can stop acting like I am on the right, pretty sure you havnt met me rather than following me around online- so ease up with the assumptions

AlCum

Wow, FOUR replies to my one post. You’re REALLY obsessed. Following you around? Are you kidding? I haven’t moved anywhere. Haven’t followed you anywhere. I’ve stayed right here. That’s quite a misplaced sense of self importance you have there, sport. You’re the one who keeps coming back for another can of whoop-ass. You’re the one who can’t go a minute without seeing if I’ve kicked your butt again. And now four replies to one post! Pffff. I don’t care what your mental problem is, I enjoy kicking you around every time you show your head.

Bine646

4 responses? I see 1 posted- not my fault the thread sucks. As for following me around- i guess you forgot about pipping in on another conversation i was having about healthcare- you know where you called me “poor poor bine- trying to get everything for free” hahahaha, goldfish memory huh?

AlCum

Yeah, chum, learn to count, Another well known conservaloon weakness — working with numbers! Each one basically the same but with some of the sentences changed around or stated differently. Maybe it’s your glue-sniffing at work, eh? LOLZ!!

What is “pipping?” Is that related to what Larry Craig was doing in the airport men’s room? By the way, you are not having “another conversation” in this thread, it is one thread. My replying to something you post in this thread is not “following you around.” Perhaps you are a tad too paranoid? I’ve not fol;owed you, I’ve stayed here and responded to you. Please do try to learn the diff, mmmm-kay? That would be great.

Bine646

yawnnnnnnnnnn well this has been fun cum hahahaha

AlCum

Well, *I* sure had fun but I am happy that you enjoyed having your ass handed to you.

Bine646

getting my ass handed to me? is that what you call that, pfffffffffffffff

AlCum

Juh!!

Bine646

nothing like being in an artificial world and having old geezers act like its reality- cant get physical here you putz. wake uppppp, you are at your computer- you really want to “hand my ass to me” lets see an address? i love traveling, maybe after i whoop on you, you could introduce me to your granddaughter so i can smash that quick

Bine646

give me a break down of how you did that hahaha dont worry ill wait- this is gonna be good

AlCum

Of course it was good. Proving you and your talking points wrong is how, sport. it was easy because as usual, you as a conservaloon had no facts or evidence, only emotional name calling and hand waving denial. Typical.

Bine646

bahaha nothing again huh, guess ill add that to the list under the calculation request

AlCum

This cinches it. Bine is officially PWNED.

Bine646

you cant even do that right- pwned? hahaha, classssic

AlCum

OMG, I knew you were stupid, since you are a conservaloon, but didn’t realize until just now how incredibly stupid. Truly PWNED.

Bine646

unless you are a world of warcraft fan then yes you misspelled owned and did not realize until i called you out- now you are trying to play it off, hilarioussssss

AlCum

OMG!!! You don’t know about PWNED!! LOLZ!!!

BTWm you are PWNED.

Bine646

kinda feel like im having a convo with my little cousin- but you are probably almost 60- weirddddddddd. Pretty sure you meant to type btw ( not btwm unless thats a new term now too?) hahaha never cease to amaze me. and lets here what the acronym pwned stands for- lets here what you cum up with?

Let’s “here” what pwned stands for? Are you truly this iggorant? Wow. You are Exhibit A as to why conservaloons screw up everything they touch, especially the economy.

Bine646

no my little cousin talks in acronyms like little girls do- as for pwned- its obviously means nothing (like iggorant; you mean ignorant) but im exhibit A hahahaha

AlCum

You do realize you just proved that your little girl cousin is smarter than you. You are truly iggorant.

RB

I will have to give this round to AlCum. Bine646 is a typical whine-ass conservative shithead.

wolfhounds27

“Being forced to pay for things is awesome.” Listen here deadbeat, through higher healthcare costs, and higher taxes to Medicaid people like have been “forced to pay for things,” aka your healthcare for decades.
So, put on your big boy or big girls pants and start taking responsibility for yourself

Bine646

Ahhh freedom huh. Listen here queerbate, i am free to choose what i do w my health- the govt does not control that. If i want to go wout i should not be fined- end of story. Now get back to living your life and stop telling others how to live

AlCum

Sorry but you don’t get to burden us with your costs. Perhaps it’s time you moved to your libertarian paradise of Somalia?

Wes

How well is the government provided education and mail delivery system working out? You stop taking away from the education in this country and we can develope more doctors to lower medical cost.

Hugh G. Rection

Dunno where you’re at – but where I am the schools are in serious danger of dis-accreditation.

Big Ed

Hey! I prayed that someday I would have healthcare with layers and layers of GOVT bureaucracy! Barack Obama made my dreams come true! Now more of his friends can get rich off the taxpayers dime… Isn’t he great!!

MsABQ323

OMG, you republicans are a riot!

LittleGnatCatcher

Will you repubs make up your minds? You want potential legal immigrants to wade through five years of bureaucracy to enter the country, but if you have to fill out one form you complain about big government.

The Koolaid Gospel

The charts seem pretty clear and the health plans are affordable.

Which part was full of bureaucracy?

Assert Valid

Don’t worry, atleast anyone who wants to shoot you won’t have to go thru many forms.

907

Republicans coining the term “Obamacare” will be the biggest mistake they ever made on this battle. Once Americans figure out what the law actually does, and they like it, they will NEVER forget who gave it to them.

JohnNFlorida

A few states doesn’t mean we’re in. More data needs to come in before we can claim the law is doing what it was designed to do – retard the growth of premiums and lower the costs patients face for treatment. One area that isn’t mentioned very often – every state and every locality is forced to cover indigent care under that ’87 law Reagan signed. They do that with local taxes or fees on the local residents. That care takes place at a $2.000.00 per day ER. Under PPACA that care will come from a Doctor at his/her office for a minimal co-pay and be paid by the Federal Government. States, counties, and cities can redirect that Indigent Kitty money to other needs (No, there’s no way in he!! the tax payers will get it back!)

suburbancuurmudgeon

Doing nothing is usually the GOP approach.

ord

Funny. I’m from California. My healthcare plan didn’t raise for 2 years. Then Obamacare passed and it’s raised 3 times since then

Please stop shoveling the B.S.

Jordan

Doesn’t go into full effect until next year, so you should probably call your insurance company.

bropo

Strange. I’m from California and my healthcare has gone up *every* year, except for the two years I couldn’t get coverage because of knee therapy after running a marathon … until this month when the SOB’s who went crazy after Obamacare passed had to bring down rates for all of its subscribers after Federal challenge and lawsuits. I cannot WAIT for the exchanges to become available.

Tom

You realize that all of the major insurance carriers are opting out of California’s exchange. Google it.

Wonder why?

George Melby

Actually, when they do that, their insurance licenses should be pulled in CA and never certified again! Stupidity has consequences when one insists on being stubborn! President Obama got re-elected, and please, now practice saying, out loud, “Madame President…!” in 2016-2020!”

Tom

Why should a company be forced to do business in a place and price they don’t want to?

I’ve practicing “the queen in a cell…..the queen in a cell…..”

Burzghash

Yeah, your rates aren’t going up because of Obamacare, which doesn’t go into full effect until next year. But hey, feel free to delude yourself over a system you don’t understand if you like.

Hathor Ronas

I still couldn’t afford O’Bummer Care. Making breadcrumbs leaves you with the choice to just afford the auto insurance, and pay other bills. Sadly I’ll take the $550 a year fine at tax time over something I know will not only cost me more but to use it at the Doctor’s I’ll pay more out my rear when all is said and done at the end of the year. The Forced Healthcare Reform…It will make or break the bank of those unable to obtain FT employment benefits with our employers.

Burzghash

Aww, someone must live in a shitty red state where their cuntservative management is fighting the system instead of working with it. You know, how they’re doing in California and seeing far, far greater returns on it than those states who are trying to sabotage it for political gain.

P.S. – I didn’t hear you guys complaining when it was originally Romneycare. But hey, why should we expect anything less than stupidity and hypocrisy from people who call him “O’Bummer”?

George Melby

“…I’ll pay more out my rear when all is said and done….” Is this the prognosis of your proctologist, perchance?

I think you may want to look up the definition of the word affordable.

Bine646

Tell that to someone who smoked- paying doubleeeeeee

SJrudy

This article only states that healthcare in California is lower before subsidies than expected. If you increased subsidies healthcare would be free. They haven’t shown me anything that shows that healthcare overall will be less expensive. All the facts actually prove otherwise including the CBO’s own projections

CTD

Somebody doesn’t understand the difference between “price” and “cost.”

MrBeachBum

What will happen is the states that tried to disable “Obamacare” will see that they need to change and then the Republicans who change the laws back to allow “Obamacare” to work better again will simply take credit for creating laws that “allowed Obamacare to work better for our state”.

Jesse Doyle

I have my own insurance that takes care of me just fine. Now that I am forced to be a part-time employee, I’m losing nearly $500 per month because of that. I’m still on my own insurance even with the cut in my pay. So if Obamacare went away, I would simply be paid more and simply be happier.

My question at this point, is what is the legitimate percentage of those that are not able to obtain adequate health insurance vs the percentage of people that actually can.

I think that once those numbers were proven accurate, we’d better understand how to go about helping this country, not drive it backwards.

mm

this article and the comments associated with it are stupid.

George Melby

The article may be stupid to you but ACA is critical to peoples’ health and lives… so go on and laugh… make a fool out of yourself!

John Erwye

i find it interesting that this guy writes an article abhorring partisan politics when the whole thing is written exactly to play into partisan politics.

George Melby

Why am I not surprised about the whole right wing attitude? They’d kill their own just to not be wrong about anything. Let them proceed!

Dorf

You honestly believe a single darn word these politicians say? Kalifornia is the last place I’d look for *any* sort of budgetary facts.

The Premiums are lower because you are comparing to a higher deductible plan.

DERP

Competition wont make it increase, a cadillac tax on existing plans will. Also, good for california. I wish it would work everywhere else

unemployed

Preexisting conditions aren’t covered until 2014. Do your homework.

Lisa English

Most people do not want to pay a dime until they are need it. The title should be “Good News for Everyone! Obama-care is bring affordable healthcare too everyone.” I don’t get why the middle class republicans are protecting the rich so they can go bankrupt paying medical bills. It comes to republican brainwashing with political scare tactics.

Premium Iphone Cases

Good news.

Jesse Doyle

Wait wait wait…. This is pure bull crap. I can only work up to 30 hours a week as apposed to 40. I have 40 hours that have been taken out of my paycheck each month because if I go over 30 hours, my department has to shell out $20k for Obamacare insurance. Also, IF you were on Obamacare, you have to pay into that when you file your taxes. Wipe that smug look on your face Obama, and whoever wrote this article is COMPLETELY ignoring the ACTUAL COST!

Just because my life is in order, I have more own insurance, doesn’t mean that I have to pay for other people that couldn’t as well. I don’t have a choice to refuse the offer and work my regular hours, that to me is not American.

Alex

Yay! Now my boyfriend is part-time! Rather than pay the fee or give healthcare, he got cut to part-time!

We are making less. Thank Obama that we can still be on our parents’ plan or we would both be **cked 🙁

Jesse Doyle

AGREED! Obamacare is the enemy to the Working American. My life was just fine without Obama’s help. The worst part of it all is that I am forced to agree and lose money when I’ve worked hard to sustain myself. Thanks Obama, just f**king thank you and all your supporters that silence people like me.

D. A. Smith II

Interestingly enough, that’s NOT Obama’s fault. It’s the fault of your company trying to cut costs and boost profits, while at the same time sticking it to a program that will hurt their bloated bottom line. It happened to me.

T. W.

Ummm…she was actually thanking Obama. Read again, lol.

Edward C

i knew i shouldn’t trust those Democratic cabinet members. HHS Secretary Sebelius must have lied to America when a couple months ago she announced the Healthcare Act would increase premiums. Of course that was wayyy back on March 26, 2013 when she made the announcement.

Big Ed

BS leftist propaganda… I have some beachfront property to sell you….

Robb Smith

It is obvious that you think we are in trouble due to the universal distress call that is your profile picture, but after you call bs, please provide some facts that support your opinion.

TrueAmerican

Why should he provide any facts? None have been supplied in the article.

What you sow you reap

Share the wealth with poor ,without thinking of what in for ME,and wealth will increase many time and your joy will be many fold!!

Marion

What are the covered benefits under obamacare? How do they compare to private group health insurance thru an employer?

Larrynator

Thanks to the Cheep S.O.B. I was working for, I haven’t had health insurance for 4 years. Too much off the bottom line. Worked me like a dog, I’m 58. Thanks Paul, you suck.

I am not seeing ANYONE address this question, and I’ve asked some people who are supposed to be experts. If you look at your property taxes, there is a portion of it that goes to your local hospital for uninsured/indigent patients. Once the ACA kicks in completely, won’t this tax go away? This ALONE could save individual property owners quite a bit of money. But when you factor in the notion that a huge part of the acreage of this country is owned by BUSINESSES (that love to pass their costs on to us)…Won’t they save money as well?

I would love an answer, if someone out there knows it.

Bill Nelson

It’s good to see that rates will be lower than expected…although, that’s not saying much considering rates in the individual market were estimated to rise 80% or more. These are still price increases, just not as much as expected.

I also take issue with the statement that people will “rarely pay the full rate”. 400% of poverty is less than $46,000 for a single person, and just $62,000 for two married working adults. There are will be plenty of people who will pay full fare.

TrueAmerican

In two years, when all the doctors have left California, let me know how that’s working out. Care will be free! Because you won’t be able to buy any, no matter the cost.

HERMIT D. PROG

IF YOU DON”T LIKE WHAT OUR PRESIDENT DID FOR YOU, LEAVE THE COUNTRY.

HERMIT D. PROG

OBAMA LOVES US ALL. IT’S OUR TIME TO PUT THE COUNTRY BACK ON THE RIGHT TRACK. WHITE AMERICA FAILED.

Disqusser

Obamacare leaves young adults on their parents insurance longer? No it does not. 23 year old college grads who can’t get jobs in this economy are bumped from their parents dental insurance. Thanks Obama. At least when they were both set for 25 years old graduates had time to find a job where an employer would provide insurance. If someone slacked off until they were 25 that was their problem. Also — the law doesn’t make sense. How can you add people with pre-existing conditions to the pool of people buying health care and lower the cost of health care. It’s counter-productive.

T. W.

Thats bull. My nephew just lost his insurance on his 26th Birthday last year. My niece is 20 with a job and is STILL on her mothers insurance. Dont perpetuate falsehoods.

Eric

Republicans are against Obamacare (the ones not completely brainwashed by fox news) because it’s hard to imagine premiums coming down when millions of people will get free insurance or a subsidy. Any level headed conservative is in support of more competition in the market. Don’t group us all together!

Vic

“before subsidies”

Collin

You mean ROMNEYcare?

Obama still a lying thief.

T. W.

It wasnt Romney care when he adamantly opposed this healthcare act for the rest of the American people. Please.

It’s ironic that they so adamantly defend the idea of the ‘free market’ when ‘big business insurance companies’ getting their way is quite literally the opposite. Those organizations lobby to imbue ‘truth’ as they see it (eg maximum profits whilst suppressing select competition and regulation).

It’s also ironic that those right-wing-defended insurance-companies incited the very call to action that ended up manifesting as ObamaCare in the first place with policies promoting their preferred and inconsiderate path to rampant greed.

Lastly it is *sad* that the right-wingers have embraced an ideology with a very real cost in human lives and human suffering while resorting to a campaign of demagogue against anyone that dares not to share the platform of their party; all for the temporary benefit of simple bribery (lobbying and such).

They will never win another election with such politics, and that’s exactly how it should be.

Herman LaFong

A point everyone seems to be missing and of course the article fails to mention is what happens when people can’t even afford what the “Progressives” might call a small cost of even $104 a month or decide not to have insurance at all.
Who’s going to pay it for them? Will individuals be fined. We, as a nation can’t even solve the homeless problem that is getting worse by the day and we are going to force people to buy health insurance (which will be less healthy)?
Force is tyranny! Whether you liberals believe it or not there is no fairness in Obamacare, only tyranny…hurry, look up the definition before Obama changes it ( you know his slogan, “Change”)

Liberals suck

All this coming from a state that’s broke and cant even pay it’s own bills.California cant even balance a state budget yet they claim this fiasco is going to be much less expensive than expected. California still cant afford it. The USA cant either.

907

California has a budget surplus. Pick up a newspaper once in a while.

Freedom

Mom: Call the doctor i’m dieing.

Me: Obamacare says there is a 30 minute wait, and the next appointment is available in 2 months.

T. W.

You dont call the doctor if you are DYING, you go to the e.r. Or call 911, lol. Ridiculous.

mike

yeah you see those rates much high (fact) , just wait a year, lol

bobby

this state is close to a trillion in debt, state and local, these folks don’t no what math is…….and there gonna tell u how much somthin may cost

BeeSeer

Now now,…before you think Americans will reap the savings…think again. There are evil finance wizards busy right now inventing ways to divert those savings into the pockets of the rich already.

Noah

Your article does not focus on the truth and the actual hardship OBAMA care will cause. OK, using your figure of 104 for some one who makes twice the poverty line….You take one working husband or wife and the second adult and 2 children, so that comes out to be $416 extra a month for some one who may make take home of $2000 a month..(I am being generous) So after leaving you $1586, and lets say you got a great deal on rent in California for $800 a month rent, so now you got $786 and your electric bill is $150 and PG&E is 50, so now you have $586. OK and lets have $20 a month for home phone for emergencies so now you have $566. or $141 a week for food or $35 a person, or $5 per meal for the family, <—-none of that accounts for a Cell phone, internet, Car payment or maintenance, Gas to get to you job, braces, co-pay with your OBAMA Care,savings account or retirement, clothes for your kids or job, or vegetables to eat instead of rice, bread and water,haircuts,cell phones,birthdays or Christmas AND LAST NO INSURANCE IS GOING TO DROP THAT LOW I HAVE BEEN WATCHING AND SIR YOUR ABOUT $86 SHORT PER PERSON……..Your article is unrealistic!!!

Noah

MEDICAL COST IS TO EXPENSIVE,,………..THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOT REQUIRE INSURANCE TO DO WHAT IT’S SUPPOSE TO COVER YOU 100% UNLESS YOUR IN A HIGH PAYING GOVERNMENT JOB WE ALWAYS HAVE TO PAY 20-40% OF OUR BILL AFTER INSURANCE AND THAT IS THE SCAM COUPLED WITH THE HIGH COST OF CARE

Noah

HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE WRECKED YOUR CAR AND GOT LESS THEN WHAT YOU OWE OR NOT ENOUGH TO REPAIR……………….HOW MANY HAVE GOT MEDICAL TREATMENT WHILE INSURED AND STILL GOT A FAT BILL We were fully insured and after our baby delivered we still got a huge bill$400 per ultrasound, and $1500 a day for 4 days on top of the $2500 the insurance covered, plus bill for the food, we ended up with our $460 a month plus almost $10k in “extras” on top of the follow up baby appointments had co-pay because adding our son onto our insurance changed our effective rate and he was no longer eligible to be included in our insurance plan unless we wanted to have a rate increase for all members of the family!!!

Bm11

Yeah it’s great. My health ins premium just went up 30% and I know Obamacare had nothing to do with it. A few hundred dollars more a month with nothing to show for it.

retep–10/52

Bine646,

what you should consider is that the new expense of Obamacare, may well be lower than the costs you might have to pay under a private insurance plan.

No matter how young or old you are, ill health will eventually threaten your security or the security of those you love. And, remember you do have the option of paying a penalty that will most likely be very affordable.

The point of the article is that States that have already embraced Obamacare are also already finding that it offers cheaper coverage than most private plans.

Jon Lundy’s point about all of the necessary services you already pay for, are a boon to most Americans. But in the meantime, are you going to rely on the ER in an emergency? Just because you might expect never to face heart disease and Cancer, how do you justify transferring the costs of your emergency visits onto other taxpayers.

You may not give a rip for preparing for the inevitable health care needs you will have, but don’t for a minute make that prudent action be taken away from me and my children!

Anyone know who this guy really is? Seen any of his life documents? Didn’t think so.

AlCum

Yes, I know who he is. I’ve seen his life documents, more than I’ve seen for any previous president in fact. You can too if you just take your head out of your rear.

Gabriel Gentile

But… That’s GOOD news for Republicans… And Democrats… And Christians… And Muslims… And Jews… And Atheists… And whites… And blacks… And Hispanics… And gays… And bisexuals…

And everyone ELSE who needs easier access to more affordable health-care!

Scott Morris

That is not true that GOP governed states wont have exchanges. People from those states will buy from a federally run exchange. That is how I understand it. Am I incorrect? Please cite the ACA section if so.

U cant please everybody. Just think lots of blacks are going to live possibly normal healthy lives now free of chronic ailments. Unless good ol white america doesent want that? Just think now with all the healthy able-bodied folks around now someones gonna have to give em jobs to so everyone can pay into the premiums & spread the “risk”. Could civil rights be reborn for real this time? We will see…