If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

• During recent maintenance and software update, account email addresses were reset. Consequently email notifications of private messages and posts to subscribed threads, as well as password recovery could not be sent.

• Please go to your Settings (click on "Settings" in the upper right corner of any page), then go to "Edit Email & Password" in the left menu bar under "My Account". Make sure your current and valid email address is listed and click on "Save Changes" whether you changed anything or not.

• This will update your email notification settings and you should start receiving them again.

• Be sure to use a VALID email address!! If you make any changes, you will receive an email to verify the changes made to your account. You will need to click on the link in the email in order to carry on.

I'm doing this to see if I at least get similar results on the E01 and Preon as you did with the same batteries. The Peaks are for kicks, but it will be interesting to see how the Luxeon does vs. the Cree.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by Beacon of Light

I also took off 4 Duraloops that completed the refresh cycle. Since that involved it charging to full and then doing a slower discharge and charge and discharge repeatedly till it was optimized, that should have formed the batteries properly, effectively getting them broken in correct? They all read 800+ mAh so they should be good to go correct? I will test the problem lights and see if their results change. I'm most interested in the E01, Maratacs, Preons and the LF2XT since they seem so off from what they are "supposed" to be able to do on low mode. The other 4 Duraloops are still being refreshed and I am at work now but they should also be done when I return later tonight.

I too, want to say thanks for doing this.

I think part of the discrepancy is est. runtime for some of those lights are based on Alkies(which I believe are rated at ~1200mAh).

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by Zendude

I think part of the discrepancy is est. runtime for some of those lights are based on Alkies(which I believe are rated at ~1200mAh).

This is exactly right. The E01, which you got 11 hours from sounds textbook for NiMH, if you want those insane moon mode runtimes, you have to do alkaline, NiMH and lithiums will give you better sun mode, but then drop like a brick. The simple sad fact is, your results reflect exactly what I thought was going to happen and why I don't give lights like the iTP much credit when they boast these ludicrous "50 hour" runtimes. I don't at all feel your tests were flawed due to the Duraloops, between your 2 tests, the numbers look consistent, I don't think you did anything wrong here.

I think the lessons to be learned, don't believe in stated runtimes, simplicity reigns supreme (the simple 1 mode unregulated Eigers) and although they suck in high drain applications, alkalines are going to give you really huge runtime numbers in lights such as these.

Thanks for doing these tests and also for your part in bringing the #0 and Sub Zero into the flashaholic world.

I'm doing this to see if I at least get similar results on the E01 and Preon as you did with the same batteries. The Peaks are for kicks, but it will be interesting to see how the Luxeon does vs. the Cree.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

I guess the alkie vs NiMH is the area I overlooked. I didn't realize alkaline AAAs were rated at 1200mAh. That would explain the extra runtimes then. I thought it was odd though as I thought NiMH had longer runtimes in general at least for AA lights, but maybe that applies to high modes which would make sense as high modes are high drain and that is where NiMh batteries should excell.

I think I will let the Eigers both go until they die so I can get an idea of total runtime before failure. Very impressed that they are the runtime leaders so far.

Originally Posted by defloyd77

This is exactly right. The E01, which you got 11 hours from sounds textbook for NiMH, if you want those insane moon mode runtimes, you have to do alkaline, NiMH and lithiums will give you better sun mode, but then drop like a brick. The simple sad fact is, your results reflect exactly what I thought was going to happen and why I don't give lights like the iTP much credit when they boast these ludicrous "50 hour" runtimes. I don't at all feel your tests were flawed due to the Duraloops, between your 2 tests, the numbers look consistent, I don't think you did anything wrong here.

I think the lessons to be learned, don't believe in stated runtimes, simplicity reigns supreme (the simple 1 mode unregulated Eigers) and although they suck in high drain applications, alkalines are going to give you really huge runtime numbers in lights such as these.

Thanks for doing these tests and also for your part in bringing the #0 and Sub Zero into the flashaholic world.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by defloyd77

simplicity reigns supreme (the simple 1 mode unregulated Eigers)

One particularly important reason for this is that a PWM regulation microcontroller sucks anywhere from 6-10mA most of the time (that's with an ideal picoPower AVR, which are essentially the most efficient at 8mhz. If they're using a different micro at high speeds, it could suck even more.). As I said, depending on the design it could suck even more than that. That means that it's sucking as much as the LED, maybe more, on low mode. With the peak, you don't have to worry about that as it's only 1 mode, linear regulated (or not regulated at all?).

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

This give me reason to want an Ultra Low dedicated light even further. One of the reasons I have several E01s were based on the fact it gives 11 sun and 10 moon mode hours. I guess I recharge batteries more frequently to never get to moon mode in that light, so I never noticed until this test it just dies on NiMH before it ever gets to moon mode (that's disappointing in itself). I like the Eigers and how they slowly dim, which is what I was expecting from the E01.

Originally Posted by defloyd77

The E01, which you got 11 hours from sounds textbook for NiMH, if you want those insane moon mode runtimes, you have to do alkaline, NiMH and lithiums will give you better sun mode, but then drop like a brick.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Ya, the LF2XT seems off as Im pretty sure that someone tested the preceding LF2x and got 2 weeks or something crazy like that. But it was probably with alkies. At theses low drive currents, they would prevail.

Also the FUI of the LF2XT defaults at 1% low not .2%. It looked like minimum from the pics though so its probably good.

PS, If you haven't changed it yet low voltage cutoff on the LF2XT is 4C+H.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

This has been extremely educational. I had never really considered the different discharge curves between the types of batteries before, as well, and had always thought I wanted heavily regulated lights-but that's not the case anymore.

It's not to say I'll stop using NIMH, no way! It's just that I'll make sure to have a healthy supply of lithium primaries on hand for the times when I may need light for a loooonnng time without any surprises. I'll keep some alkaleaks around as well since these are not high drain lights...

This also endears my peaks to me even more... I now have a valiant concepts Arc AA conversion body enroute for really insane runtimes and I'm glad to have scored some of the last Matterhorns from RMSK! I'll be ordering me a pair of those Eiger/Beacon specials as well (subzero!!!)

Anyhow, 5 hours into my runtime test and all 4 lights are holding steady. The 2 peaks are at simlilar brightness levels to each other and both the E01 and Preon are looking good. Not much has changed at this point.

One last thing to mention, not one of the lights is even the slightest bit warm to the touch, even after 5 hours of continuous on....

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

yeah the only one out of the lights that got incredibly hot was the Ray S20, but that thing is putting out like 180 lumens or something crazy from a single AAA. I told them if they made that light with a moon mode instead of 180 lumens I'd buy it, or at least a 2 mode moon/low or medium

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by Sir Lightalot

Ya, the LF2XT seems off as Im pretty sure that someone tested the preceding LF2x and got 2 weeks or something crazy like that. But it was probably with alkies. At theses low drive currents, they would prevail.

Also the FUI of the LF2XT defaults at 1% low not .2%. It looked like minimum from the pics though so its probably good.

PS, If you haven't changed it yet low voltage cutoff on the LF2XT is 4C+H.

perhap I am remembering incorrectly as I thought minimum on the LF2XT was .2% or perhaps I am thinking of reading someone that said it may be equivalent to .2 lumens?

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Well, I'm 8 hours into my run at this point and all 4 lights are still where they were at the onset (I've been comparing visually and through side by side photos as well) I really don't expect much action until they start to hit the 10-13 hour mark anyway.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Ok so this is confirmed then the difference is that Fenix did use specs from alkies to to quote runtimes. I guess I learned something out of this and I guess I'm disappointed in NiMH batteries low performance compared to alkies.

I know the alkie shows 1 more hour +, but I guess when I was a newbie I saw those figures as being roughly the same output, so I always thought with the ever increasing higher capacity NiMH cells, they were superior in capacity to regular alkies. Would this be a case where Lumapower is rating the 71 hours + fairly conservatively and not including say 20-30 more hours on moon mode?

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

The Luxeon Eiger is now dimmer than the the Quark in moon mode, but not by much

The XP-G is just slightly brighter than the Quark in moon mode. The greater efficiency of the XP-G is now apparent to me at the bitter end of this run test

Both would still be of value in any pitch black environment

I'm going to let them go to off and measure voltage frome there. My guess is that they'll get to about 19-20 hours total run with the eneloops

I am VERY impressed with the Eigers, primarily because I feel these lights will give one some very useful runtime with no surprises... on any chemistry!

The E01 definitely had some moon mode runtime after it dropped out of regulation, but not much before it shut down. Overall, a very impressive run from the E01, though. I will always have a few of these on tap.

The preon appears to have simply shut off once it hit whatever limit with the nimh. I'm curious if alkalines would allow it to run and then decline gracefully? Might have to try this next.

Beacon, I think with these results, we can confirm your tests were a valid representation of performance on NIMH's and it looks like your duraloops are not faulty at all. This has been a real eye opener for me, thanks again for you efforts!!! I can't wait to see what the next test batch shows.

Edit: I just dropped a fresh alki into my preon for kicks, (10am ET) I won't give the blow by blow, but will report back on whether it surpasses the 11 hour mark. I think Scout24 may have already tested this, I'm just curious to see if mine goes the distance.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

The difference is I'm using Kirkland Signature AAA Alkies dated March 2014.

The contenders:

Fenix E01
Quark MiNi AA
ZL H50b
ZL H501

At the 14hr mark all lights are still running. The E01 is going into moon mode.

As an aside, IIRC there were two different flavors of the E01. It had to do with the emitter output. I don't recall if this affected runtime but I know mine has a lower output than the two I got for my girls.

UPDATE:

By the standards set by BOL the E01 light output fell below the moon mode of a Quark AA @ ~15hrs and the Quark mini was starting to dim.

At 15.5hrs the mini matched the E01.

At 16.25hrs the mini was BARELY on so I stopped it. The battery was at .61V.

ZL lights still going strong.

UPDATE#2:

At 24hrs the E01 is still putting out some useful light(easily enough to read a map). I checked the battery: 358mV! Voltage was rebounding as I measured it. I put it back in and it fired right up.

ZL lights are still going strong.

UPDATE#3:

ZL H50b: At ~27hrs I found it doing a slow irregular strobe. It looked like SOS spaced far apart. I checked the battery and it showed 1.07V, called it done.

ZL H501: I checked at 34hrs and it was still good. At 36hrs it was dead. Battery was at 1.08V.

E01: Still kickin in moon mode at 42.5hrs! Voltage is holding steady at .37V

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Darvis, Yes I did, but I'm curious as to what brand of cell you are using. I have followed this enthusiastically, I just do not have any smaller rechargable cells. Only 123's. I may have to remedy that, I like some of these times... I'm going to call for a Sub Zero and try my favorite coppertops in there... Thank you guys for all the work on this!

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

So here's my final update @ 23 hours with the 2 Eigers left standing.

Both are clearly below the Quark on moon mode at this point.

The Eiger #1 Luxeon is what I would call at tritium level. You can clearly see the glow in dark room and maybe get some super dim light in a totally dark environment, maybe even read a map, but it would be a stretch. I think this thing would glow for a few more hours, but I'm counting it out @ 21 hours to be honest. The last two hours were really just interesting to watch.

The Eiger #1 XP-G... Downright impressive. I'd say it's about 0.01 lumens at this point. I took into a completely dark room, and I could make out rough detail. Would this thing perform in any type of ambient light? No way, but I'd say it went an honest 22.5 hours on the eneloop.

Both eneloops were at exactly .97 volts when I pulled them at the 23 hour mark!!! These things are literally just sipping from those AAA's, the sub zero must be a battery camel!!! Can you imagine what these things will do with an arc adapter and a AA? Man....

Scout, I've got an energizer AAA alkaline in the Preon at the moment Update: See post #117 for results

Both Eigers were at a lower output level than the Quark (18hrs Luxeon) & (20hrs XP-G) based on the original outlines for the test. If the quark on moon happens to be the lowest low that you can live with, then the #1 Eigers will only get you this far with an eneloop.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

he Eigers appear to be regulated somewhat, not sure if it's true regulation, or just the flatter dischare curve of the eneloops, but they definitely have a nice smooth run to them!

The Eigers are actually unregulated, what you're seeing is behavior in NiMH cells. That's truly the secret behind the long runtime of these Eigers and other runtime greats such as the Gerber Infinity Ultra, 1 mode, no regulation, nothing more than what's needed to boost voltage. This is why lights like the Preon failed, the complexity of their circuits hinders their performance with all of those modes, PWM etc.

I'd like to go somewhat off topic and mention a thread on the Marketplace, the "4Sevens E01 style light" thread, you will notice how much I emphasize the importance of such a light being only one mode, I really hope now it's clear as to why.

What kind of self respecting nocturnal being cannot see in the dark, one way or another?

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by defloyd77

The Eigers are actually unregulated, what you're seeing is behavior in NiMH cells. That's truly the secret behind the long runtime of these Eigers and other runtime greats such as the Gerber Infinity Ultra, 1 mode, no regulation, nothing more than what's needed to boost voltage. This is why lights like the Preon failed, the complexity of their circuits hinders their performance with all of those modes, PWM etc.

I'd like to go somewhat off topic and mention a thread on the Marketplace, the "4Sevens E01 style light" thread, you will notice how much I emphasize the importance of such a light being only one mode, I really hope now it's clear as to why.

defloyd, thanks for confirming that and I'm going to have a look at that thread. I can sincerely say that I'm now a true convert/believer in single mode simple!!!

On that note, at exactly 11 hours, the Preon shut down. It was feeding on an energizer alkaline AAA... And that folks, is all she wrote.

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

hrm now that you guys have tested the AAA lights...and found the big difference in NiMH vs Alkies I wonder if that holds true for the AA lights like Quark AA and it's runtime of 10 days stated in moon mode. (someone had to have tested this before right?)

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by wantsusa

hrm now that you guys have tested the AAA lights...and found the big difference in NiMH vs Alkies I wonder if that holds true for the AA lights like Quark AA and it's runtime of 10 days stated in moon mode. (someone had to have tested this before right?)

Re: Epic AAA Run-time test (low level only!)

Originally Posted by wyager

With two AAs, it claims 30 days moonlight mode.

Has this been tested?

I'd also love to see this as I have been eye'n this for my first XP-G light as the claims are out right crazy... Also like the modes and the form factor as the tactical looks awesome. Also would like to see the one of the Icon lights in this test, maybe the Icon Rogue 1AA as Paul Kim has definitely done a great job on design but would like to know the claims. Hell I'll do and post it, just to see as a comparison to the field.