Lancer wrote:If Weber really wants out of Nashville, it doesn't hurt Poile to match the offer anyway. Right now, until he matches, his only real trading partner is Philly. Even with a NMC/NTC, it opens the market to more teams than just Philly and Poile could get more than he will now. His agent said Weber would 'be professional' if the Preds matched it so you know he would show up and play next season so it's a matter of what Poile could get for him next year.

I don't think so Lancer. I think if Nashville matches they can not trade Weber for a year. That means they would have to eat about 25 million in cash before they could make a trade. I can't see ownership doing that. They would basically be dolling out 25m to trade Weber for a fair return. Though if they did it would sort of fuck Weber because he has no NTC, NMC. Philly gave their word they would add it in after. If Nashville matches they won't add in shit! Nashville could match and trade him to some shit ass city. Worse than Nashville? I don’t know. Ha, if I was a billionaire and a player fucked me like this I might just pay him his money and BURRY HIM IN THE MONORS FOR THE REST OF HIS CAREER… lol.

I do however believe they can trade Weber to Philly now, during the week window but I can't see Philly giving much. Why when you know you have him for 4 late 1st rounders?

Good point about the money. That changes the complexion of the issue to Poile making either a business (read: money) decision or a hockey decision on whether or not to match the offer sheet. The Preds' owners may not care much for shelling out that dough for a guy who will depart after one year's service, but if Poile can sell it in terms of the money they will lose in attendance and market damage by letting Weber go for nothing but low 1st-rd picks and admitting to fan that it's back to the rebuild drawing board, then I think he can get the owners to agree to pony up the cash to pay Weber. It's either shell out the cash or risk destroying what they've been trying to build for how long? Just as they're starting to see daylight in terms of solidifying their fanbase?

Yeah, not having a NMC/NTC on the offer sheet makes life so much better for Poile as he doesn't have to get Weber's consent for a trade to wherever Poile can get the best return. I wonder how Weber feels about Long Island?

Lancer wrote:Just a thought/question: Could Poile trade Weber's rights to another team who can match the offer sheet from Philly, or is it only Nashville who can match?

This is actually a really interesting idea, and would either make offer sheets vastly more entertaining to watch or kill the process altogether.

Imagine if the Preds turned around and decided they'd rather have Alex Edler, Keith Ballard and a first round pick than four first rounders and moved Weber to the Canucks who happily matched his offer sheet?

What would be the point of signing a player to an offer sheet except to screw the team that holds his rights (since they will probably move him elsewhere rather than take the picks)?

ODB wrote:I don't think so Lancer. I think if Nashville matches they can not trade Weber for a year. That means they would have to eat about 25 million in cash before they could make a trade. I can't see ownership doing that. They would basically be dolling out 25m to trade Weber for a fair return. Though if they did it would sort of fuck Weber because he has no NTC, NMC. Philly gave their word they would add it in after. If Nashville matches they won't add in shit!

Weber's NTC would kick in when he reaches UFA age, ie. 7/1/13, if the Preds can't trade him for 365 days then they'd never be able to move him without him waiving his NTC/NMC (although given he evidently wants out there probably wouldn't be much trouble with that).

The Preds could hang onto Weber for two seasons while they begin to rebuild, then tell him he can give them a list of 10-15 teams he'll waive for prior to the next signing bonus or that he'll be a Predator for life. By then they will be allowed to trade him as per the offer sheet stipulations in the CBA, he'll have played two seasons for them to the tune of about $28m - probably an overpayment of about $10m but if Poile can convince ownership that this is substantially better than either taking the picks or whatever their trade value is then I could see them biting.

dbr wrote:
The Preds could hang onto Weber for two seasons while they begin to rebuild, then tell him he can give them a list of 10-15 teams he'll waive for prior to the next signing bonus or that he'll be a Predator for life. By then they will be allowed to trade him as per the offer sheet stipulations in the CBA, he'll have played two seasons for them to the tune of about $28m - probably an overpayment of about $10m but if Poile can convince ownership that this is substantially better than either taking the picks or whatever their trade value is then I could see them biting.

They could also move him at the trade deadline 2 or 3 years from now, which would mostly alleviate the sting of the contracts structure.

Lancer wrote:Just a thought/question: Could Poile trade Weber's rights to another team who can match the offer sheet from Philly, or is it only Nashville who can match?

This is actually a really interesting idea, and would either make offer sheets vastly more entertaining to watch or kill the process altogether.

Imagine if the Preds turned around and decided they'd rather have Alex Edler, Keith Ballard and a first round pick than four first rounders and moved Weber to the Canucks who happily matched his offer sheet?

To clarify: Weber cant be traded at all. If Nashville and Philly work out a trade it will actually be Nashville not matching, taking the compensation then trading the compensation back to Philly for players.

One other thing that would be interesting is if Nashville matched then Weber at some point asked to be traded and didnt report to the team. Its quite possible under those circumstances that Nashville could sue to get part of his signing bonus portion of the money already paid returned. We saw this with Michael Vick and Ricky Williams in the NFL.

The offer sheet was a calculated risk By Weber. But I have no doubt that if Nashville matches he reports and acts with nothing but professionalism. He had to have known the risk he was taking and lets face it, he wanted out but was running out of time to hit a contract home run so he took the risk. Kind of hard to feel bad for him no matter how this turns out. Poile was right in playing hard ball with respect to the return he wanted, did he play too long, hard to tell.

A couple of changes I would like to see in these offer sheets

1) Love the idea that the team owning the rights could have the option of trading his rights to a team that could then match. Wow, just wow would that open up a ton of possibilities. We'd have a week of bidding wars by teams that knew if they won the war they'd have Weber forever.

3) Allow the losing team to take the matter to arbitration with respect to return. For example, they could refuse to match but make a demand of a fair market return which if refused then the matter could be sent to binding arbitration.

dbr wrote:
The Preds could hang onto Weber for two seasons while they begin to rebuild, then tell him he can give them a list of 10-15 teams he'll waive for prior to the next signing bonus or that he'll be a Predator for life. By then they will be allowed to trade him as per the offer sheet stipulations in the CBA, he'll have played two seasons for them to the tune of about $28m - probably an overpayment of about $10m but if Poile can convince ownership that this is substantially better than either taking the picks or whatever their trade value is then I could see them biting.

They could also move him at the trade deadline 2 or 3 years from now, which would mostly alleviate the sting of the contracts structure.

Yep. It's all about creating a marketplace for Weber (should be easy) with tons of time before the next signing bonus kicks in. Get as many games out of him at his ridiculously low salary as you can and avoid the next July 1st kick in the teeth at all costs.

black ace wrote:

dbr wrote:

Lancer wrote:Just a thought/question: Could Poile trade Weber's rights to another team who can match the offer sheet from Philly, or is it only Nashville who can match?

This is actually a really interesting idea, and would either make offer sheets vastly more entertaining to watch or kill the process altogether.

Imagine if the Preds turned around and decided they'd rather have Alex Edler, Keith Ballard and a first round pick than four first rounders and moved Weber to the Canucks who happily matched his offer sheet?

To clarify: Weber cant be traded at all. If Nashville and Philly work out a trade it will actually be Nashville not matching, taking the compensation then trading the compensation back to Philly for players.

Yeah - I just meant hypothetically if this were allowed. As it stands the only trade Nashville can make in the next year relating to the offer sheet is with Philly's four 1sts.

If they were hypothetically able to trade their right to match Weber is the situation I was speaking of. It could get really interesting, and I guess all it would take is some team like the Islanders winning the bidding war for the rights to a top player on a lifetime contract and we'd probably never see the situation come up again. How many players would be willing sign a contract knowing they could literally end up on any team in the league?

dbr wrote:If they were hypothetically able to trade their right to match Weber is the situation I was speaking of. It could get really interesting, and I guess all it would take is some team like the Islanders winning the bidding war for the rights to a top player on a lifetime contract and we'd probably never see the situation come up again. How many players would be willing sign a contract knowing they could literally end up on any team in the league?

There would have to be 'out' clauses and such because yeah, the whole idea of free agency is the player gets to choose where he signs. In such a scenario, there would have to be a concession to the player in terms of term length - or they could get rid of these 'lieftime' contracts altogether and limit term length.

Right now, clubs are pretty vulnerable to getting screwed by other clubs with regard to RFAs - particularly big-name RFAs. Not the players' problem, but from a competitive standpoint there has to be some ability for clubs to get reasonable compensation for the assets they develope and in which they are now investing a fair amount of money and energy - and draft picks aren't the solution. I like the arbitration solution idea. If the player wants out of an organization as a RFA, fine, he should be allowed to look elsewhere and find a better deal/fit. But right now, if you're a small market owner screw salary roll-back - you'd probably want the ability to not end up like a farm team for the bigger market clubs.

Listen Blobby Bear, I don't like Mike Gillis, so what. I actually can't understand why you like him. It's almost like you are afflicted with that Canuck homer disease that you don't feel comfortable slagging a Canuck player, coach or management until they are no longer under the services of the Canuck Organization.

What is it Blobby Cat that makes you stand up for Mike Gillis, be in his camp, a Gillis campaigner, supporter, got his back etc.,

My reasons

- the rookie GM mistake he made by trading a 2nd and 3rd round pick Steve Bernier while not to long before that trade he slagged the previous Canuck management for their trading away of draft picks.

- The Keith Ballard trade...fucking awful.
- Letting our best defenseman - Erhoff walk, the Ballard contract might have had something to do with this.
- The waste of time Sundin signing, woohoo, he mentored Kesler
- The Sturm signing
- The Booth trade, taking on that contract for a meh player
- The Pahlsson trade, two 4th round picks
- Letting Willie Mitchell walk
- The poor handling of Cody Hodgson and trading him for a minor league project whom they had hoped would toughen them up for the playoffs but this go around, goal scoring became our nemesis, or lack thereof. Great idea, you struggle scoring goals trade CoHo our 3rd line centre and replace him with Pahlsson. Great idea for the playoffs.
- The special treatment that Manny Malhotra gets around here
- His lack of brass balls when it comes to shaking the tree when the tree needs shaking while other GM's around the league are being pro-active.
- Gillis idea of adding to the team are middling role player, journeyman types, ie the Calgary Flame model over the last 10 years, completely depleting your prospect depth cause of the fascination of acquiring the, Pahlssons, Higgins, Malhotra types. He has no balls in bringing kids along onto the team living through there mistakes when it's the kids who provide a fresh new look on the team that actually bring inspiration to the vets.
- he plays it way too safe in which in the end will end up making us the classic just above .500 hundred hockey team filled with good guys on and off the ice, boring, boring, boring

What a pile of shit. I agree on the Ballard trade and the Sturm signing( never liked the guy.... too soft for a team that needs sandpaper). I would have liked to have seen Mitchell stay but I don't think he would have swallowed being the 5th d- man.
Your take on the Hodgson trade is a joke. " A minor league prospect" . You lost all credibility there amigo.

Your trolling and ranting might actually have some teeth if you didn't just make shit up. The Sundin signing was a waste of time.... really ?? Yes signing a HHOF player to a deal when you have the cap space is stupid.

The way you whine about the Bernier trade is hilarious.... like Gillis sold the farm to get the guy. Never, ever heard you whine about Cheeseburger Boy flipping picks for the likes of Keith Carney or E Weinrich. Or Brad Brown ?? Wake up and smell the shit my friend. i know your asshole is warm but you can't lodge your melon there forever.

I will say this about Philly, if they want something, they are willing to pay a hefty price. A move that takes alot of ballz, but it's a nice change from that teams that play it safe all the time (uhmmmm, can-ucks).

Todd Bersnoozi wrote:I will say this about Philly, if they want something, they are willing to pay a hefty price. A move that takes alot of ballz, but it's a nice change from that teams that play it safe all the time (uhmmmm, can-ucks).

The Canucks have taken relatively big risks to address needs (under MIke Gillis at least).. the Keith Ballard trade would be an example, and they have gone out and paid market value to free agents like Mats Sundin, Mikael Samuelsson and Manny Malhotra in order to fit needs on the team.

They've also let a key defenseman walk for about four years running now (Ohlund, Mitchell, Ehrhoff, Salo to a lesser extent) without missing a beat.

Nothing so glamorous as trading away their top two centers, or invalidating three NTCs, or signing a goaltender who'd never played a game for them to a terrible lifetime contract - but still risky.

But, the fact is the Canucks have probably had fewer holes than the Flyers over the last few seasons.

Last edited by dbr on Sat Jul 21, 2012 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Your trolling and ranting might actually have some teeth if you didn't just make shit up. The Sundin signing was a waste of time.... really ?? Yes signing a HHOF player to a deal when you have the cap space is stupid.

The way you whine about the Bernier trade is hilarious.... like Gillis sold the farm to get the guy. Never, ever heard you whine about Cheeseburger Boy flipping picks for the likes of Keith Carney or E Weinrich. Or Brad Brown ?? Wake up and smell the shit my friend. i know your asshole is warm but you can't lodge your melon there forever.

Listen Blobby...you're man Gillis has so far stepped in the fray two times this off-season only to get out-muscled twice, once by the lowly Oilers for the services of B.C. Boy Justin Schultz, Edmonton for fuck sakes! And then not too long after, Holmgren bitch slaps Gillis silly in his awesome, crazy ass offer sheet for B.C. Boy Shea Webber. All the while, Gillis sits there with those massive suitcases under his eyes and red face going, "what happened"?

Now, Nashville may match but at least Holmgren is fucking proactive. Love that shit.

"I just want to say one word to you. Just one word. Are you listening? - Plastics." - The Graduate

Blob Mckenzie wrote:
Your trolling and ranting might actually have some teeth if you didn't just make shit up. The Sundin signing was a waste of time.... really ?? Yes signing a HHOF player to a deal when you have the cap space is stupid.

The way you whine about the Bernier trade is hilarious.... like Gillis sold the farm to get the guy. Never, ever heard you whine about Cheeseburger Boy flipping picks for the likes of Keith Carney or E Weinrich. Or Brad Brown ?? Wake up and smell the shit my friend. i know your asshole is warm but you can't lodge your melon there forever.

Listen Blobby...you're man Gillis has so far stepped in the fray two times this off-season only to get out-muscled twice, once by the lowly Oilers for the services of B.C. Boy Justin Schultz, Edmonton for fuck sakes! And then not too long after, Holmgren bitch slaps Gillis silly in his awesome, crazy ass offer sheet for B.C. Boy Shea Webber. All the while, Gillis sits there with those massive suitcases under his eyes and red face going, "what happened"?

Now, Nashville may match but at least Holmgren is fucking proactive. Love that shit.

The Flyers are not as successful as the Canucks have been the last few years even though everyone expected them to be, they had no choice. The Kings were shyte for years and drafted high, same with the oilers, Hawks, Blues, Capitals, Lightning, Panthers. Yet the Canucks, drafting where they draft for the last 5 years have kept competitive more than most teams. I like a team that's not desperate but always makes the post-season...you almost sound like a Leaf fan dude...sure you don't have family in Ontario.....