Go find the 3rd set of 2013 RG SF between Rafa and Nole. It's 37' of crap that never should have been played since it wasn't contested. And yet, ESPN was dubbing that match as arguably the greatest match ever played on clay. And I'm sure you parroted those comments because that's what people do.

The majority of that match was crap. It did morph into a very good match, then Nole's mind took a dump and he tossed the match away in epic fashion.

Look at yesterday's SF between Nole and Delpo. Nole played so poorly that Delpo was able to extend it the distance. Nole was trying to line up his shots and just misfired time after time. It had nothing to do with Delpo, either. With Delpo's power, forced and unforced errors were easy to discern. Nole just missed and missed and missed again.

But wait, ESPN was calling that should-have-been-over-a-long-time-ago slopfest one of the greatest matches ever played at Wimbledon!! And you believe it

Of course they are saying we have now the greatest tennis ever. Saying today's tennis is crap is like saying "People, don't bother watching this".

Go find the 3rd set of 2013 RG SF between Rafa and Nole. It's 37' of crap that never should have been played since it wasn't contested. And yet, ESPN was dubbing that match as arguably the greatest match ever played on clay. And I'm sure you parroted those comments because that's what people do.

The majority of that match was crap. It did morph into a very good match, then Nole's mind took a dump and he tossed the match away in epic fashion.

Look at yesterday's SF between Nole and Delpo. Nole played so poorly that Delpo was able to extend it the distance. Nole was trying to line up his shots and just misfired time after time. It had nothing to do with Delpo, either. With Delpo's power, forced and unforced errors were easy to discern. Nole just missed and missed and missed again.

But wait, ESPN was calling that should-have-been-over-a-long-time-ago slopfest one of the greatest matches ever played at Wimbledon!! And you believe it

TV guys are idiots and would say anything to fill the void, especially americans but that's not the point of this thread.

I thought yesterday match was a great match full of amazing tennis, drama and some funny moments as well. I don't know man but I guess your standards for good tennis is flawless, fast points and always good tactics. These people are human and I don't recall past greats playing at that level either. We are talking match right?

Now, individual performances; that's easier to get because you only need one player hitting a high level; not both at the same time and since you understand tennis better than most you realize both players hitting a high level simultaneously it's very rare.

The Rafa/Nole SF lacked the quality for most of the match for it to be considered great........never the less, the drama that those two generate, especially at RG makes then pretty memorable. The end of the 4 set and 5 set had both players hitting ridiculous shots. Just listen to the crowd!

At the end of the day "beauty lies in the eyes of the beholder" so you might as well hold your breath because most people just don't see it your way.

I prefer Fed-Stakhovsky. I post 1000 comments during big matches. It's not a secret what I like, what I think is slop, what I think is amazing and what I think is boring (waiting).

You guys try hard to paint me into an all-or-nothing corner.

Actually read what I say. I'm far from all or nothing and I do enjoy today's tennis. I'm only trying to figure out a way to shorten matches. The obvious - best of 3 - was there all along. Being a best of 5 guy, it never occurred to me.

Why are you posting in this thread? So I can pick on you? Or is everyone else tired of hearing you blather about Murray. I swear, I see a thread started by sid and I stay out. Too bad for you no one else wants wants to talk to you or about Murray. But still, why stop by here and address all of your stupid comments to me? You farted already and pronounced, "Enough said."

Should have stopped while you were behind. Now you look like my chimp.

My advice, don't start any comment with "Babs..." The probability I'll respond to a post directed at me is 100%.

hunting, why you always think every single post of mine is bashing Nadal, and praising Haas?That was never the topic or or the point in this thread. You are very obsessed and paranoid, why did you mention Haas here? Also he's NOT a typical baseliner, he's ALL AROUND player. If you watched him you'd know what I'm talking about. I've probably watch everysingle match he played for the past 7-8 years with the exception of those that I had to watch on the scoreboard, and those matches in his early career on tapes and yt.So, having said that he's one of the players that like to produce variety in almost every single point. Whether is it S&V like in 2009, or all around ground game like in 2002 or recently. Witch I'm more fond off, don't know why you always believe I'm all for S&V?Maybe because its so rare that is nice to see some S&V for a change.

Also so what if Haas is not in the final? How's that got anything to do with the topic? If you knew me better you'd know that I'm not gloryhunter, I just enjoy the game and hope for uncompromised and tennis with less drama and entertainment in it! Yesterday match was the perfect example of new breed of tennis fans influenced by the media and these so called experts of the game Some really great shots here and there, but the majority of that long match was grinding with no tendency to attack whatsoever. Unfortunately tomorrow's final could be worse.Fine by me, Its just not my cup of tea and I don't want anyone to tell me what is the best tennis today, because I can always hope and pray for the things to get better, IMO.For example I could always watch Haas-Safin AO 2002 instead, again and again.

The last era of tennis has given us so many memorable matches like the one we saw yesterday that's it's pretty ridiculous and petty to keep complaining about the "state" of the game. You guys talk like if a "God" came down from a mountain many years ago and gave you the tenets of how tennis "should" be play. GTFOH There is no SHOULD, the only law it's WINNING and today's best are the best at that.

You are free to like what you like but it's silly to expect others to see it your way and then complain at every opportunity. Why Haas is not in the final? Why he has never made a GS final? The funny thing is Haas is a BASELINER......just like today's best and although his 1HBH makes him "special"; the guy makes a living from the back of the court. When he start S&V and C&C give me a call will you.

and what's the deal with 30+ rallies rant? I don't remember such occurrence as often as it's criticized by certain posters. Did we had one yesterday that went to 30? Maybe such posters should participate on sea fishing board instead and enjoy the brevity.

We are the "end" of the greatest era tennis has ever seen and soon you will go back to mediocrity and boredom. Stay still!

excellent post as usual. now get your sorry ass to the castle to say hello once in a while before I really get pissed off.

you know we value your wisdom highly at the castle.

I may have to fire up a thread here about the state of the sport and its future.

people still don't get it: the war/battle on the court simply must be waged from the backcourt in modern tennis.

you cant volley what you cant see. they are all serving bigger than anybody ever did in the past but you cant pay your mortgage by playing serve n volley tennis.

even the women are blasting near 95 MPH drives to the corners. so how the hell can you go in except on your own terms.

you pretty much have to guess at the baseline today, let alone at the net. the runaway speed of the game makes it near impossible to win at this sport except from the baseline. it also invariably means that you have to be one hell of an athlete today. you must be a fantastic mover who can run for 5-6 hours.

stak got lucky against unprepared and slow roger that day at Wimbledon. he would have won total of 3 games against nole. del potro would have demlolished stak right off the map.

I like stak but he cant beat the top guns day and and day out serving and volleying.

and one other thing: the slice is a must have shot to vary the pace or to get out of trouble but it is finishing power that you have to have both wings in order to dominate the sport.slice cant win you matches.

andre Agassi paved the way for that. he was the first to show that you can dominate if you have deadly finishing power off both wings.

Herc and hunting, with all due respect but this topic wasn't about S&V in todays game. It was about grinding vs tendency to attack and finish the point sooner(if I got it right) So that doesn't necessarily mean S&V, that could also include all types of baseline game.

Like Ferrer, he likes to put balls into awkward places, but is eventually a grinder and a robot with incredible durability and stamina. Same with Simon, Monfils, Monaco, Murray etc They tend to wait more for opponent to miss via UE, than to finish off the point putting some pressure on the opponent.

that being said, it is still risky as hell going forward in the modern game. going forward entails great risk.

you could miss the volleythe guy could hit a topspin lobhe could pass you with a ball that is hit at near 100 MPH and with spin. you cant volley a bolt of topspin lightening. and that assuming you even saw the ball. you cant volley what you cant see.

You are free to like what you like but it's silly to expect others to see it your way and then complain at every opportunity. Why Haas is not in the final? Why he has never made a GS final? The funny thing is Haas is a BASELINER......just like today's best and although his 1HBH makes him "special"; the guy makes a living from the back of the court. When he start S&V and C&C give me a call will you.

The difference with Haas' and e.g. Murray's baseline game is that Haas is an offensive baseliner, Murray relies much more on defense. But today's slow surfaces don't reward offenisve tennis.

Go find the 3rd set of 2013 RG SF between Rafa and Nole. It's 37' of crap that never should have been played since it wasn't contested. And yet, ESPN was dubbing that match as arguably the greatest match ever played on clay. And I'm sure you parroted those comments because that's what people do.

The majority of that match was crap. It did morph into a very good match, then Nole's mind took a dump and he tossed the match away in epic fashion.

Look at yesterday's SF between Nole and Delpo. Nole played so poorly that Delpo was able to extend it the distance. Nole was trying to line up his shots and just misfired time after time. It had nothing to do with Delpo, either. With Delpo's power, forced and unforced errors were easy to discern. Nole just missed and missed and missed again.

But wait, ESPN was calling that should-have-been-over-a-long-time-ago slopfest one of the greatest matches ever played at Wimbledon!! And you believe it

The third set of that match does nothing to prove your point. The third set was simply Djokovic throwing errors right and left and dumping away a set. It had nothing to do with him trying to be a backboard. I agree, it was pretty disappointing. But the first, fourth, and fifth sets were all amazing and had quality tennis almost every point. That's why I considered it such a great match. The majority of it wasn't crap. There was crap in the middle, but the majority was great.

Yeah, Nole fired errors all over the place on one of his best shots, the BH down the line. Del Po should've come out on top. I really don't get what your point is there. What the heck does that have to do with being a grinder? I don't believe it. I thought it was fun to watch because Del Po was actually being offensive like he used to instead of trying to be defensive like he's tried recently, but I never said anything about it being anywhere near the greatest match at Wimbledon.

Personally I like the best of 5 format. And I was sorry to see that format go away at the masters events.

If the points are different for these events, then something should be different between a 250 event vs a 2,000 point event. To me, they "cheapened" the master tournaments because the format is just like a 250 event.

The "problem" today is not the "format". It's the courts and rackets. Even Roger said just about all the courts today are the same. That took away players from having to "change" their games. Now most players are playing the same way (even the 6ft 8 guys)! So, we are getting "mirror" images and not much contrast in the game.

There is no way we would have seem a Wimbledon in the past like we did yesterday because the court wouldn't have allowed them to play it that way. It's really disturbing when there is hardly no difference between a clay match today vs a grass match vs a hard court match. Everyone can play all of these the same way. You'll see contrasting style with some of the "older" players on tour because they had to develop those styles. You'll see the same style on the "younger" players because they came up in an era where all the courts have dictated the same style.

I say don't get rid of best of 5, but make the tournament surfaces the way/speed they SHOULD be.

I miss the best of 5 sets foremat at masters finals. they threw away the epic nature of those finals.

terrible tragedy.

I see some people are still not getting this: the runaway speed of the game is such that you can even play on glass or ice and still the war simply must be waged from the baseline.

go start watching bass fishing tournaments since obviously the game is too fast for you to follow.

these players cant pay their mortage by rushing the damn net. for one thing they cant volley what they cant see.

and they also don't want their wrists broken assuming they can get hold of a ball at the net. these balls are being hit at near 100 MPH with spin.

you only go in if for the following reasons:

1. you have no ground game. that also means you are a nobody in the sport.

2. as an element of surprise

3. or you go in on your own terms like behind a massive approach shot

roger himself has been asked this very question a 100 times by the clueless press. and he has repeated the same answer over and over: he has said that going forward entails massive risk in the modern game.

you pretty much have to guess at the baseline with the runaway speed of the game, let alone at the net.

blame the athletes, the racquets, and the strings. and the way they hit the ball these days. the game has changed. now they attack the ball by launching themselves at it. forget the classical style. it is useless today.

do not blame the courts.

the sport is progressing to its highest level ever. if you dont have the patience and the intelligence to enjoy it then maybe you really should consider bass fishing tournaments.