There's a song surrounding in my mind, by Beatles,"Imagine",it was being sung as this:
Imagine there's no countries
It isnt hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
No religion too
Imagine all the people
living life in peace

Life for Tibetans in China's "newest province", Nepal, is really tough isn't it? How is it that even a sovereign state like Nepal can be completely and utterly controlled by the Chinese government, whether its through spy rings and paid informers or through faxes from the Chinese Embassy with instructions for how to deal with Tibetan "saboteurs". The power of China's iron grip on Tibetans, even in the periphery of exile...

Hi 50 cents, looks like your shift started pretty late today. This article is actually couple of days old! I guess you're not doing your job properly. Be careful lest you get sent to a gulag for some more reeducation.

Then you must be a paid commentator. But keep this dialogue civil, I'm going to keep this discussion relevant to the issue at hand. Tibetans are not given special rights in Nepal. More-so, Tibetans in Nepal are stateless refugees since the Nepali government does not issue Tibetans any kind of ID, thus preventing them from legally working, studying and travelling. This is fact, please do check.
Tibetans in Nepal are not allowed to gather freely like Nepalis are. Over 18,000 Tibetans in Nepal cannot start their own businesses like Nepalis can. The list goes on. So instead of accusing Tibetans in Nepal for "being immune" to Nepali law, please look at the facts. And again, please educate yourself on this issue before you start throwing around baseless accusations and ignorant statements. And if you really have something to say, please dignify your comment by thoroughly and logically explaining your argument with facts instead of insults.

I said Tibetans refugees are NOT immune in Nepal, they also have no right as Nepalese because they are simply not citizen of Nepal. For what rights they expect from Nepal government.

Remembered Vietnamese refugees in SEA, they were locked inside a camp, no job, no work but food. (Between North and south Vietnamese, they were fighting, murdering inside the camp). Did America accept them all? NO!! America and other western countries took a few they selected, the host countries must take the responsibility/financial burden for the rest. UN did not pay the bill for the refugees either. No money there for refugee. It was a huge bill, including sending them back to Vietnam by plane. Each Vietnamese refugee was paid US$1,000 in their pocket, plus money to Vietnamese government to take them back. Who paid ?? The host country or city.

Do you think Tibetan refugees are better in India than in Nepal? The second generation are discriminated by their Indian brother, no job even though they are borned in India and speak Hindi and english. Unemployment is rocket high, the place is dirty (I was told.)

Do you know how much a trouble for Germany to handle PKK terrorist in Germany. They bombed Turkish shop in Germany and make social unrest. PKK (Kurdish people who live in Turkey and speak different language. Turkey recognized them only as Turkish, not Kurkish, but they want independant) are refugees in Germany.

Yeah! The world is not fair, is always not fair, has never been fair!! Why you borned in a weathy country and the other not ?? Why Tibetans were slave of Dalai Lama and Noble class ??

Funny you said Tibetans can't set up small business in Nepal. But I can buy Tibetan handicraft from Tibetan vendor in Kathmandu over 20 years ago. I can also understand it will cost Nepalese job and chance if so many Tibetan want to set up small business.

So once again, you're trying to argue a point that you have no understanding of. Since 1998, the Government of Nepal has stopped issuing any kind of ID to Tibetans in Nepal. Therefore, it is not legal for any of these stateless Tibetans to operate businesses, work legally or enroll in school. Get your facts straight before you comment.

Also, regarding your earlier comment, maybe I didn't understand you because of your broken English and bad grammer. Regardless, I find it utterly useless to debate with someone who knows next to nothing regarding the issue at hand and just makes arbitrary personal attacks instead. I suppose it's what you're being paid for, but it's wasted enough of my time. Have fun bombarding other people with your ridiculous banter.

You, as NGO member get paid by your organization. Because of that you got your job too. So you are a stake-shareholder. How neutral are you ? :D

Sorry, I was in Nepal 1996 as backpacker, just for 2 weeks, not very long to understand politic. I was not interested in politic at that time either. There was no Tibetan issue much at that time. We heard of Dalai Lama ran away. That was all about it.

Did I insult you in my last 2 posts on this thread? No, I checked it. I stated my point of refugees in general, in Hong Kong and in Germany.

I like to point out one thing. It is not allowed to give a job (simple cleaning job) to a jobless person (who receiving social welfare) in Germany because so will take away someone else's job. The union is strong to protect their members rights. You think Nepal government should give Tibetan refugees a permit to work or open business ??? However they should let them leave Nepal to India. Nepal government is too poor to handle refugee problem anyway.

You're right that people whose English is not their first language should also be heard. No argument about that. The point I was making to PL123 is that this person makes baseless accusations and assumptions alongside irrelevant personal attacks, using broken English that is hard to understand, if you read the whole string of comments and replies. No one is saying that there should be a restriction on free speech because regardless of their grammer. So please read the whole string of comments and replies before before you judge the 'hypocritical' nature of my replies.

What questions do you want me to answer? Haven't I answered enough of your accusations? So I don't see much of a point in this discussion anymore since it seems that you're quick to judge my motive and the reason I'm even responding. You've called me a Falong Gong member, a biased NGO groupie, what else? I'm not interested in petty debates. The point of this thread is about Tibetans in Nepal and I don't want to engage in irrelevant personal slander. Lastly, the point of having an ID, or any kind of status for Tibetans in Nepal is simple. Everyone needs to work to survive. If they can't work, what will they live on? If the Government of Nepal is too poor to deal with them, then why not stamp their exit visas and let them leave? You tell me that? Could it be possibly that they are pressured by the Chinese government to restrict the movement of Tibetans in Nepal?

Life for Tibetans in China's "newest province", Nepal, is really tough isn't it? How is it that even a sovereign state like Nepal can be completely and utterly controlled by the Chinese government, whether its through spy rings and paid informers or through faxes from the Chinese Embassy with instructions for how to deal with Tibetan "saboteurs". The power of China's iron grip on Tibetans, even in the periphery of exile...
-------------------

It is un-objective and un-fair to have such a statment to claim Nepal is a "newest province" of China! So I can say the whole world are "newest Provinces" of USA !! Who is not influence by US foreign policy by not-so-free-will.

Even UN and Dalai Lama himself recognized Tibet is part of China. Why don't you respect the so-called international law then ?

If you want to learn about the specific policies of the Election Commission of the Central Tibetan Administration in exile, please be my guest and read the following passage carefully.

--

Composition of Kashag & Parliament

Tibetans in India, Nepal and Bhutan elect their MPs on the basis of 3 traditional regions of Tibet and the 5 Religious Traditions. The religious traditions are Nyingma, Sakya, Kagyu, Gelug and Bon, while Amdo, Kham and U-Tsang are the three regions of Tibet. The electorates in the Final Election, elect ten MPs from each of the three regions and the clergy electorates elect two MPs each from the five religious traditions. Tibetans in North America and Europe follow one uniform electoral procedure to elect Kalon Tripa & Tibetan MPs. Outside India North America and Europe have the largest number of Tibetans and this is one of the reasons for having two MPs each from the two continents. Thus, the strength of 15th Tibetan Parliament in Exile is 44 elected 44 MPs.

--

So as you can see, there is no "noble class" and the only reason that monks and nuns have two votes is because one vote goes to the respective region they are from and one vote goes to one of the 5 schools of Buddhism that exists in Tibet. The only reason this exists is to PRESERVE the various traditions of Tibetan Buddhism. At the moment, Buddhism is being very tightly controlled inside Tibet. Just recently, a policy shift now allows for Chinese officials to be directly in charge and stationed inside monasteries in Tibet. Even candidates for the highest 'geshe' degree, the equivalent of a PhD in Buddhist philosophy, has to be approved by Party officials. Questions in the exams are also re-written by Communist officials. Monks and nuns are also required to participate in political re-education programs on a regular basis and the 2500 year old religion is slowly dying inside Tibet. So you see, if there is not an elected representative by the Tibetan people in exile in the 5 schools of Buddhism, Tibetan Buddhism will not be able to passed on to the next generation.

Now, you tell me why 30 Tibetans in Tibet have self-immolated, most of them monks and nuns dying in the most painful way. Answer me. Could it be that the restrictions in monasteries in Tibet are so repressive they see no other ways of protest? Could it be that they are routinely forced to denounce their teachers and told what they can and cannot study by an atheist government? If Tibetans in exile don't try to perserve Tibetan Buddhism, one of the world's oldest and richest religions, who will? It's being systemically destroyed in it's homeland. Answer me these questions before try to nitpick the policies of the Tibetan government in exile. Read a little more about the issue before you judge.

Wow, it just doesn't end with you. Yes, the Dalai Lama and the Tibetan Government in Exile has sought Genuine Autonomy within the framework of China since the 80s. This is an obvious fact. The exile government has not tried to seek independence since then but the China has rejected each and every point in the memorandum even since it's been proposed.

And what other government has plain clothed police from another country running their nation? And tell me why Tibetans in Nepal cannot celebrate the Dalai Lama's birthday? Tell me why they can't gather during religious dates. Tell me why the Nepali Government will not issue them exit visas to leave the country if they are "too poor to deal with them" like you say. TELL ME.

Answer these questions first BEFORE you ask or accuse me of anything else.

To judge whether Dalai Lama want Genuine Autonomy or independant has to see what they did and NOT what they said. They asked greater Tibet to be ruled as Autonomy which is obviously too big appetit for China or any former Chinese Dynasty can digest. In fact they had never control those area.

I can't judge why Tibetan can't protest or celebrite any festival inside Nepal. You should ask Nepal. But I think it is for Nepali's interest not to allow them. Security concern !! It can turn out to be another protest or riot. As a refugee, one has only limited-rights in the host country.

"plain clothed police" Do you mean Chinese plain clothes police? When Nepal government allowed them or even requested them then it is OK.
We have guest-team-police patrolling around during a international football match too. What is the surprise!!

Jon Huntsman (former US embassdor in Beijing) observed the protest in Beijing personally last year. No Chinese official accused him as spioner, although he was happy to see the protest.

FYI German government is planing a Koran education (degree) under German education system and control by German government. They need to preach in German language in Mosque. If you think China government is so unfair to Tibetans then the world is unfair.

Thanks for writing so long to explain me the system of 2 votes. Exactly this point bothered me a lot, that monk can vote 2 times, one for religion, another one for government. They want to control both and never want to accept a more liberal and democratic way of living. How on earth people want this caste, slavery and theocracy system like Tibet which believe in Karma. At the same time, Dalai Lama doesn't believe his own Karma----being exiled forever...

I had said, before making any other points, please tell me why 30 Tibetans, mostly monks and nuns have self-immolated in Tibet. It seems like you have so much to say on the subject of Tibetans, so please do tell me what could have driven 30 people to burn themselves to death while calling for religious freedom. Tell me before you make any other arguments.

And if you're going to say that overseas groups incited these activities, I regret to inform you that these areas have been completely sealed off to the rest of the world. And also tell me why they won't allow journalists to go and investigate the matter. Tell me what they Chinese government is trying to hide. Answer these questions and stick to the issue at hand rather then making arbitrary comparisons to to Germany or the US.

Tell me why sect followers will listen to their priest to suicide because he said it is the end of the world!? If this don't answer you then you are one of those crazy people. Sorry to say it.

Tell me why "Free Tibet" in London was always the first to know of self-immolated case happened in Tibet when this area was sealed from the rest of the world? Where the source came from, when not from Tibet/Sichuan?

Tell me if any decent government/country will let foreign people/journalist to investigate their internal case.

Tell me why western journalists only interested in Tibetan monk and nun but not the ordinrary Tibetan who their lifes were improved. Life expectancy rise from 35 to 65, hospital, school to learn Tibetan language? Why?

You still have not answer if you are from NGO ? Why you avoid to answer it ?

First of all, no one is telling Tibetans in Tibet to immolate, especially from exile. Free Tibet Campaign in London get the reports of the immolations because they have secure contacts in the region using classified means of communication to reach the outside world. And obviously you don't know anything about the freedom of press because you only have one official government mouthpiece for your news. News should stem from independent and multiple sources, not merely from an government deciding what should and shouldn't be reported.

And no, I don't work for an NGO, I'm not being paid to make any of the comments I'm making.

Your ignorance prevails once again. Buddha himself once cut off his own flesh to feed to a starving lion about to devour its own offsprings. In Buddhism, self-sacrifice has been common practice and even self-immolation. Once again, think before you comment.

I understand free press that is why I asked you how "Free Tibet" get their information from Sichuan/Tibet. That means they are not sealed from the outside world, and it proved that they can manipulate the Tibetans in Tibet throught this secure contacts. Their target monks were always young and hot blood Tibetan monk and nun. Same as 911 murders who were trained and bombed US government!!

And how can you be so sure that NO one tell Tibetan to self-immolate? Are you one of those top exil government? We should not only believe "Free Tibet" too because they have their own agenda, mission to fulfil.

I am like every German and western people read English and German press online.

BTW this is the first time I heard Buddhist allow to kill and self-killing. You open my eyes. Who should believe this BS!!

When Buddha himself once cut off his own flesh to feed to a starving lion about to devour its own offsprings. Can he still survive? I'm talking about physically, not legend in Buddhist book. We should let the legend as legend only, but not promote it as harmless fairy tale.

You can believe what you want and blame the Tibetan government for everything. Just try to spend some time objectively looking at the big picture and carefully review both sides of the story. 3 hunger strikers have been fasting for one whole month in front of the UN in New York requesting a fact finding delegation to Tibet. Australian MPs have requested the same. Journalists aren't allowed to go in. Why? Thousands of Tibetans flee their homeland every year. Why? Are they manipulated to think that their lives are so miserable that they should risk their lives to flee into exile? Who's telling them that they should become refugees in Nepal and India?
It's pointless to debate with someone unwilling to listen. So by all means, carry on with your propaganda and harass someone else with your ignorant comments. You're probably paid to make them. Other people have legitimate jobs for a living and don't have time for this.

Tibet is not seal from the outside world, as long as news of self-immolated monks still can come out from Sichuan. Messages can goes in too.

Religious people generally are easy to manipulate, see islamic fanatic as a example.

Western journalist want only saleble news, not a happy Tibetan peasant who build his house and have electricity.

You open my eys by telling me Buddhist allow to kill and self-killing. But who want to believe this BS

You believe it is OK for monks and Nuns to have 2 votes and other has one vote only. Monks and Nuns are privilege group is OK for you. As long as they are monk and nun, they sacrify themself for Buddhism. To keep this backward caste, slavery, theocratic system is holy to you.

You accused me as being paid in the forum because I have time to do it.

As long as you have all the rights, the rest of the world is not important to you.

“The Vietnamese monk, by burning himself, says with all his strength and determination that he can endure the greatest of suffering to protect his people. What he really aims at is the expression of his will and determination, not death. To express will by burning oneself, therefore, is not to commit an act of destruction but to perform an act of construction, that is to suffer and to die for the sake of one’s people.”

- Martain Luther King Jr on the self-immolation of the Vietnamese monk, Thich Nhat Hahn.

Are you going to accuse him to being brainwashed too?

And I guess you didn't understand the purpose of the 2 vote system. Read my post carefully again about the preservation of Tibetan Buddhism which is being systematically destroyed inside Tibet.

And looking at your commenting activity today, you must have earned a lot of money! You obviously don't have a day job since you spend all of your time making pro-China comments. Well, whatever you need to do to feed yourself right.

What are you doing here commenting pro-Tibet ?? And you tell me you are not from NGO ?? What do you make for a living, by donation from Buddhist believers??
No, Martin Luther Jr was not brainwashed. He was however a politician who had his agenda/message to say.
Will you say it is OK for Tibetans to burn themselves because some famous people said it is OK? I don't want to be used for someone else's agenda. Same as to Mao or Dalai Lama.
BTW I am online all day with my Notebook and work on my other PC, internet flat-rate and electricity is cheap in Germany. :D
If I want I can be like something Troll (a commentator) who bombing hundred of posts a day. But I am just answering and questioning your comments only.
I can see Theocratic Tibet is worse than Vatican..

You are a troll. I live in Beijing now and know some Tibetans who go to that university and even they talk about the discrimination they experience in both Beijing AND their home country of Tibet. Too many ignorant Chinese people like you know nothing about the country of Tibet, its people, its culture, its language, or its religion. You have been fed propaganda for far too long. Most Han Chinese know nothing about the outside world and know even less about their own country and the countries they have stolen.

Tibetans are rioting for a reason. That reason is extreme discrimination and racism against them. The sooner you learn about Tibet, the sooner you will stop being a troll for the goons and thugs in Beijing.

I actually live in the so-called "West". I have read works critical of China's rule of Tibet. I know about the discrimination, and I wish for it to get better. However, to rectify this will be thousands of times harder than the Civil Rights Movement in the US, since it is so tangled up w/ politics and foreign interests (why do you think the NED gives money to TGIE?). I'm all for equality, on paper and in reality, for all people in China, regardless of race, gender, ethnicity, religious belief, sexual orientation, etc. However, I am against secession.

By the way, I suggested the university because the other place to find Tibetans is on the plateau, and in case you didn't know, going there now is kind of difficult. So if one wants to speak to Tibetans living in China, this is one of the easier ways to do it. I never said that they were happy or supportive of the government.

Han Chinese students were complaining about discrimination too. Why Tibetan students in Central University of Nationalities can study for free and free lodging and Han students has to pay and go through all examinations to fight into a UNI.

Tibetan parents can have more than one child?

This is the wrong distribution of resource done by biased Chinese minority policy !!

Same the western people like you know nothing about China, and finger pointing to China. China should do this and that, but you western people can change any rules anytime you like. Hypocrite!! :D

I have lived in China for 7 years. Saying I know nothing about China just shows your ignorance. How much do YOU know about China. It is arrogant to think you know more about Chinese just because you are Chinese. It is an illogical argument. 1.4 billion people; are you going to say you know them all?

Tibetans have nothing. You are complaining about the government giving them something. That is harsh, don't you think. How would you like it if a Han police came to your house and took your motorcycle, the only form of transportation you have, and gave it to his Han son? That is what happened to one of my Tibetan friends. How would you like it if the only job you could find in your own nation was with a Han boss? Tibetans are foreigners within their own country. Most Han like you don't even know what Tibetans look like. My friends are often asked what country they are from.

I live in China. I have a right to speak out. If you can't handle that, you are the hypocrite.

I respect your observations. However, before you condemn a whole country and its inhabitants, you ought to realize that said country has been through much turmoil, stagnation, and upheaval. For Han to know Tibetans and other minorities better will take time. Han often look down on other Han as well (I'm from Henan, which is stereotyped as a nest full of thieves and hucksters). This is due to localization of the people - people rarely traveled and migrated in the past due to difficult transportation and the hukou system. As people get to know each other better, I'm sure these sorts of things will disappear. Also, Han and other Chinese in general are quite direct about a person's ethnic and racial background - they haven't gone through the painful experiences of racism that America and other multiethnic nations have gone through, so sensitivity in this area is unknown. Many of these people asking the questions may simply be ignorant rather than genuinely racist or discriminatory. Of course, discrimination does exist, and the government must address this issue, but change won't happen overnight - it took 90 years after US independence for slaves to gain their freedom, then another century for equal rights. Hopefully, change won't take this long in China, but it won't happen instantaneously either.

Well before Han boss move into Tibet, the Tibetan has no job at all, farming or herding (slavery) are the only choice.

If you want to be a Tibetan Boss yourself, you must step out the first step to work under someone (either Han Boss or other Boss). Many Chinese Boss took the chance of open economy and started from the bottom to top. If you don't work hard, don't complaint!! Han chinese people in fact work very hard and can eat bitterness. If they can, Tibetan also can. Change your own fate by working hard for your future.

Yes, I agreed there are discrimination inside China. I heard Xinjiang people go into a CHinese embassy (foreign country) to renew passport, and was asked to show his Chinese passport! True! When you go into US embassy as a white American citizen you need to show your passport too. I believe the discrimination in China. I believe also discrimination EVERYWHERE.

"Tibetans have nothing." So all schools and hospitals and road are only a photoshopping effect, not real !! Bravo !! I should now buy Adobe share !! May be Adobe can even print real money .... Who knows.

Today Tibetans have basic healthcare coverage. Where is the national health coverage for American? Don't the American 99% have nothing too?

Mathematically a sizable American population have nothing or less than nothing, and face grave prospect in lives. They are partially responsible for their miseries for being so tamed and indoctrinated.

The medicines that the 1% prescribe to Tibetan are more appriopriate for their 99%.

Yes, i can believe that what you said is all true. And it is sad for China and Chinese people who simply cannot know the truth and do the discrimination thing which actually distains themselves. The discrimination against Tibetan people by Han Chinese because of their arrogance resulted from ignorance may be still very harsh in lots of place in China. But i really want to say that the discrimination is probably, as a Chinese college student and my experience in Sichuan province in west part of China where there are a lot of Tibetan people in our school and in my life, mainly among the elder and poorly educated Han Chinese who mostly have no idea of the splendid Tibetan culture and her independent history from China, especially Han Chinese. As in Qing dynasty, the emperor valued Buddhism so much, but he was not Han Chinese but Manchu.

So, maybe I can tell you, drawing from my feel, that many ordinary Chinese people are making a progress in their conciousness of understanding and respecting themselves and all other peoples around the world, including Tibetan people of course, with the modern idea of equality among different races, and making a substantial resistance against the stale government, when the Chinese government are basically not changing in anyway. So thanks to the internet, TE, Americans, English, Japanese, His Highness the Dalai Lama... all the great men and women who push the value in this era of globalization into the stubborn mainland China. But, I want say, there are still a large number of Chinese ever more than before who truly respect and are fascinated by Tibetan Culture and people, and are learning Tibetan culture and language, not just as ignorant tourists traveling around Tibet. And I strongly believe that we should not ignore the good part, but encourage it. Political issues can never be separated from a place like Tibet in China now, and the Chinese have heads to think about it while questioning profoundly of the propaganda spread out by the government and the events they covered, just like in other non-Tibetan issues they suffered and tried to figure out and solve it based on truth and righteous. Probably, you'll see an incurable dreamer here. Well, anything starts from a dream, i guess, Tibet will naturally be independent and free when China becomes free, or there could only be escalating conflicts getting innocent people hurt badly, but leaving the evil ones safe and sound.

Shoot! But timing is tricky. And don’t stop pushing, guys. Thank you so much.

What?! What on earth i said in my comment make you assert that i think in this way you imagined yourself?? There is probably some time and energy for you to put in your arduous work of improving comprehension skills, my dear fellow~~

You wrote: "But, I want say, there are still a large number of Chinese ever more than before who truly respect and are fascinated by Tibetan Culture and people, and are learning Tibetan culture and language, not just as ignorant tourists traveling around Tibet. And I strongly believe that we should not ignore the good part, but encourage it. "

I hope you don't mean feudal system (slavery, Theocratic, backward) are good culture of Tibet. Remember Buddhist is part of Tibetan culture, not all. And China was/is very much influenced by Buddhist, Taoist and Confucius in our daily life. Chinese people were/are always practising these cultures until Communist took over China. To say Chinese people are fascinated by Tibetan Culture is absurd. May be they are fascinated by Tibetan Buddhism, not Tibetan feudal cultures.

Pope Benedict recently just said Marx is old-fashioned. May be he means the world should follow his Catholic feudal theocratic system, so is more fashionable. Are you a fan of him??

I hope more Chinese officials learn Tibetan language so is easily for them to govern Tibet, and Tibetan should all learn Chinese so is to life better inside China.

Firstly, thank you so much for replying. And I basically agree with part of your 2nd paragraph.
But in my first comment, I actually said "there are still a large number of Chinese ever more than before who truly respect and are fascinated by Tibetan Culture and people, and are learning Tibetan culture and language," So, you see, I didn't just say "Chinese people" which probably means "all the Chinese people" which is obviously impossible. Please pay more attention in my words if you are going to reply.

And i am not writing a research paper here, because, in my view, this is a place for comments. So, sorry, I guess i don't have to analyze all parts of Tibetan culture and history, which is impossible, here before i say: a large part of Chinese people as I know indeed love Tibetan culture. And what I mean is that we should not ignore the fact of the existence of these ordinary Chinese people, NOT including government officials here in my comment, who respect and love Tibetan culture, but just look at the dark side of Han Chinese. And if you go back to see which comment I reply, you’ll see why I said these words. They have nothing to do with what the hell “Pope Benedict” you said over and over again!

Besides, culture and history are intricate disciplines to learn about. They essentially avoid to be simply labeled just as good or bad, while I think I should tend to approach them as objective as possible. Specifically, Tibetan culture is much more than just Tibetan Buddhism and Tibetan feudal culture you mentioned. So, that’s why it’s hard to point them all out clearly to avoid your irrational digression. It’s apparent that you are the one here who know little about Tibetan culture.

Moreover, you are being ridiculous in one way: Of course! I guess no Tibetan people would like to go back to feudal system. Will you, anyway? But, the point is that, all these days, like for at least 20 years, Tibetan people are talking about “NOW”! They are no different in the way that ordinary Han Chinese who are pursuing comfortable and free living life in modern China. It’s NOW that Tibetan people deserve a much better life in their own special way than they are doing today ruled by CCP.

Finally, you are talking about governing, while I am wondering how a free, no-repressive and equal living life with full dignity coming for each common citizen. So, through all these discussions, we are perhaps troubled by different or even antithetical perspectives and positions in our subconsciousness between us, dude.

This is the problem of you NOT to clear what Tibetan culture(s) you refered to. You don't want to analyze its culture because you are not a scholar. Fine, but how can you say a lot of Chinese even more than before they respect their culture which you don't even know what kind of culture you mean.
As a chinese the first thing I think of Tibet is religious culture and then its backward feudal system. I don't know what I should respect to this system/culture. The same I see the feudal orthodox Jewish, Vatican etc.
As I pointed out Buddhist is only part of Tibetan culture (unfortunately a important part of daily life in Tibet), slavery, caste, Art, literature, and music, food, agriculture (herding), Nomads, Nomads practising polyandry and polygyny, clothes, architecture.
No Chinese and Chinese Tibetan (I used Chinese Tibetans here, not Tibetan monks in China.) want Tibet go back to Feudal system, but exil Tibetans which most of them are religious-Tibetans-or-related and noble-in-charge who want to take back their previlege and power.
What do you mean by "a large number of Chinese ever more than before", and you said "not just Chinese people" ? Can you say a bit clearer? Han Chinese in China, ethnic Chinese oversea, Oversea Han Chinese, minorities Chinese??
As I said before I am sure lot of Chinese (Han and ethnic) respect Buddhist culture, but Buddhist culture doesn't mean only Tibetan Buddhist culture, we have another line of Buddhist too, eg Zen Buddhism.
BTW how can a un-free, religious-slave can talk of freedom, dignity, equal-living to other citizens!?
It is a globalize world, Chinese should learn Tibetan language as they like as a hobby, but more important is Tibetan should learn one of the world most important language (Chinese) to have a better life. At the end a better life is more important than all others--forget about Karma.

Sorry for my vagueness in some expressions. There are too many of them, and you have also mentioned some more examples, thanks. Maybe I can try this way to articulate myself: any phenomena with any kind of unique Tibetan impact or characters.

Well, I do know about Chinese Buddhism for sure, as many of my relatives are devout Buddhists, except for several ones, who are Han Chinese, converted to Tibetan Buddhism.

What do you mean by “religious-slave”? Honestly, this is kind of offensive and biased, because you distorted the Tibetan Buddhism by attributing ancient-day consciousness to the modern figures. Please try to dig a little deeper in nowadays Tibetan Buddhism. The people in this world are all progressing to a large extent, and the expressions of religions are naturally improving too. But also, maybe learn something about what the Dalai Lama said if you can climb over the wall. BTW. If what he said was really nonsense or no points, why CCP has to bother blocking them all? They should just let all Chinese people in mainland know about those stupid babbling, right?

So, what I want to say is that, in Dharamsala, they are carrying on their democratic elections, while mainland China is still enjoying the harmony totalitarianism. Let me try to put in this way, maybe 100 years ago, most Han Chinese areas could be regarded superior to Tibetan areas in the way of rule, but now they are changing much more in a better way than mainland China is. The saying of “religious-slave” is out of date, as I met so many Tibetan people who are pretty smart and excellent in their lives and works, and who are also respectable Buddhist believers, not some kind of slaves. People just instinctively adapt to any environment they live in. So please save your antique idea while others are changing remarkably.

In addition, “a good life for Tibetan people” is not merely counting on food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, and other such necessities, but also a lot more, just like other Chinese people, which I guess you are clear with. Then I doubt your “Tibetan-must-learn” point.

Yeah, I am sure the Tibetans you met were smart guys from the top, who can afford to go to USA or studied abroad, learnt philosophy and Buddhism in University. All funded by CIA or German fund alike.

By using iPhone, iPad or computer didn't mean they are modernized in their believing. Religion is religion, they don't follow the pace of modern development, instead they are against any form of modernization.

Nowaday Tibetan Buddhism ideology is "Happiness", as Dalai Lama always claimed. It is to fit into western culture, so he simplify it into only Happiness. In fact Karma is your fate!! But he don't accept his own Karma.

Have you ever think Vatican is democratic organ? Vatican (Catholic) is one of the most conservative in the world like islamic. They wear still centuries old costume, Lama did the same. That is not very modernize, is it?

BTW the German Bishop is very afraid of modern churches in Germany (Where I am.)---Fitness studio !! :D

When the anti-Chinese film "Windhorse" set in Tibet was filmed in Nepal and secretly in Tibet it was clear that the Nepalese authorities at that time (in the 90s) were disinclined to respond to Chinese orders. Move they eventually did but too late to confiscate the most sensitive material (already out of the country) This may well have been a deliberate ploy on the part of the Nepalese. However times have clearly changed since China has become so much stronger.

The Economist has every right to question Nepal or any other country - its called freedom of the press, something tha exists in the UK, the US, India, Nepal, and many other countries in the world - but not China. The Maoist government of Nepal gladly plays China's lackey, as it guarantees lots of Chinese aid and cash, and a good chunk of it ends up in Maoist politicians' pockets. The Nepalese government has been repressing Tibetan refugees as well as Nepalese citizens of Tibetan origin for some time, and it is only getting worse. The Nepalese government, by their own laws, needs to either grant Tibetan refugees their refugee cards, or Nepalese citizenship (for those born in refugee camps in Nepal). But the Nepalese government rarely does so, unless many lakhs in bribes are payed. A very corrupt country that has only become worse under Maoist leadership - and four years now and still no constitution....

If that Nepalese was Chinese (i.e. driven solely by making a buck), yes there is no doubt that China should be the most influential.
However, if the Nepalese was Nepalese, then he would remember the neighboring country (Tibet) swallowed by Mao and not get embraced to death.

Actually, China should let all Tibetans leave. China wants the natural resources, so if the people don't want to stay, let them go. Unfortunately, neither you nor I can change China's policies, so our intellectual masturbation/bickering won't do any good.

I am ethnically Chinese. However, I have not murdered anybody, let alone Tibetans.

I think that "our intellectual masturbation/bickering" (as you put it), could do some good.
Raising awareness of issues (such as the killing of Tibetans on the border), could save lives by increasing awareness. (As the internet has so ably done over the past decade).
At some point, people (even in China) will start wondering why Tiber was invaded and why Tibetans do not have the right to self-representation.
And, while I do think that Tibet was invaded by China, I do agree that Tibetans are far better off under the Chinese government than they would under the backward, feudal, religious theocracy of the Lamas.

"At some point, people (even in China) will start wondering why Tiber was invaded and why Tibetans do not have the right to self-representation."

I think Modern Troll (now going by 50 cent peasant troll I believe) once mentioned that Chinese are undergoing a period where national pride and patriotism is at the fore. Thus, they won't be reflecting on any of the nation's actions, just like the Americans didn't reflect on herding the Indians into reservations back in the 1800s or the British reflecting on selling opium to Chinese during the same period. Give it another couple of decades, when people are wealthier and can worry about things other than making enough money to send their children to college and having a middle class lifestyle, and then, you may see some self-reflection and soul searching.

I am not ignoring it. Since I said that the government SHOULD let Tibetans leave willingly, I am implying that they are not. However, there are no easy solutions, because China needs Tibet's resources (as well as keeping it as a bulwark against India), and in this day and age, a nation like China cannot ignore this sort of need.

Indeed there is freedom of press in the west. Freedom to edit the news to suit its propaganda like CNN that edited the pictures of The Tibetan riots to make the Chinese look bad. Or freedom to hack and bugs people phone like what Murdoch's press empire did. So much for freedom of press huh?

Indeed there is freedom of press in the west. Freedom to edit the news to suit its propaganda like CNN that edited the pictures of The Tibetan riots to make the Chinese look bad. Or freedom to hack and bugs people phone like what Murdoch's press empire did. So much for freedom of press huh?

About a hundred years ago, China had an awesome set of intellectuals who envisaged a country ruled by stellar principles.

These principles unfortunately perished under the death throes of the Qing dynasty, the remnants of the feudal system, the corruption of Chiang Kai-Shek's government, genocide by the Japanese and the death-blow being struck by the (incredibly brilliant) Mao.

Possibly the worst casualty of Mao's rule was its censorship of information, resulting in a couple of generations of Chinese growing up in an intellectual vacuum.

Having said that, I think that the current generation (at least of educated urbanites I came across in China) are little different from any kids anywhere in the first world, so change may occur faster than you envisage, but driven by the younger people.

But, even though there are the young of the current generation who are numerous in the cities and the prosperous east, there are also those who are still poor, many of them farmers, from the interior (where I came from). Westerners may see the face of China and think it is dominated by the fashionable, conscious youth, but they ignore the interior and its impoverished, who are just as numerous, if not more so, as the urban youth.

Indeed there is freedom of press in the west. Freedom to edit the news to suit its propaganda like CNN that edited the pictures of The Tibetan riots to make the Chinese look bad. Or freedom to hack and bugs people phone like what Murdoch's press empire did. So much for freedom of press huh?
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PL123 can be quite vitriolic w/ some of his/her statements, but committing the strawman fallacy is hardly sound either. It has been the rule of the world (unfortunately) for people to dominate and exploit each other since Homo sapiens first emerged from East Africa. How else do you explain the size of countries like the US and Russia today, or European descendants living in a remote continent sized island in the South Pacific called Australia?

No, Chinese army is in its own country China. You made it wrong again.

BTW when you European descents leave America and Australia for good!! The aboriginals and Red Indians were/are suffering. Their big land was invaded and leave them only a small reserve to survive and be acolholic. Don't you feel shame !! Leave please!!

Not sure of which of PL123's vitriolic statements you are referring to... I imagine it was the statement about Tibet historically 'belonging' to China
In terms of your statement about people dominating and exploiting each other, yes, very true. What I hope to believe is that this was in the more distant past. The Chinese invasion of Tibet occurred more recently in 1950 (at a time when most colonists were relinquishing their colonies).
And the world has much-improved since. For example, even in the American invasion of Iraq, no country could militarily prevent the US from butchering all local opposition, making Iraq a colony and appropriating its huge oil reserves. We did not do that.
Going back a few hundred years to justify more recent actions would legitimize both slavery and genocide (like what the Japanese did in China during WWII). And is simply wrong.

I'm not justifying anything. I'm merely making an observation on the human condition. We Homo sapiens are animals, more specifically mammals, and close relatives of the great apes of Africa. We may be more intelligent and capable of complex thought, but that does not mean we have nothing in common w/ our animal relatives. Otherwise, how do you explain Blackwater contractors shooting random civilians in Baghdad, or the private in Afghanistan who murdered 17 hapless Afghans? Human cruelty exists, and since nation-states are ultimately derived from people, they can be cruel as well. It is of no use to deny that.

If you are able to, I think it would be a good idea to speak to some of the resident refugees in Nepal or to some of the many further seeking protection overseas from what they see as defacto persecution in Nepal.

I am in a privileged position to write as a 'free man' but have watched the situation in Nepal deteriorate from a stable monarchy through 10 years of Maoist aggression to become a country that is less functional with no clear democratic path due to constant conflict within it's 'elected' politicians.

Nepal has always been a country of freedom and this ex last Hindu Kingdom, although struggling to make a brave new world is so heavily influenced by China that now many of the ethnic minorities who have been welcome, feel under extreme pressure. If you like, the peace and love factor has gone, fuelled by malicious gossip and hatred - a reoccurring featuring since the Maoist insurrection brought it to the country along with its failed ideology. In sort, a country which was going forward and progressing rapidly 15 years ago, has now been set back with businesses fleeing the disruption, part of which is minimal electrical power along with direct Maoist interference within any business which may be seen to be remotely successful. This makes start-ups difficult and joint ventures near impossible.

This, along with the continued oppression, not only of Tibetans, is slowly breaking the spirit of one of the few unconquered countries in the world.

To be a Tibetan in Nepal at this time may be likened to how the Jewish people felt in Germany during the mid to late 1930s - uneasy. The world should feel uneasy about having this on its conscience today in the 21st Century.

If the world and you really care then tell your government to accept these poor Tibetan refugees. And see how long it take until you will fed up with this riots from these non-productive Tibetans? Simple!! Try it.
Nepali can't make a good job for Tibetan refugees may be you can better.

Stop pretending to be a Nepali in here! You are only a Chinese 50 cents army who usually swarm and hijack any meaningful discussion on anything related to Tibet by either pretending to be a westerner or a native of another country, in this case Nepal.
You're clearly very misinformed about the current situations in Nepal.

Are you insinuating that China already bought Nepal with offers of unconditional aids? Thanks for confirming it. Good job!
Fyi, Napoli is in Italy and not Nepal. At least get your facts straight before you comment here.
And please stick to the issue here in discussion.
I think you missed one alphabet in your username. PLA123 would be more suited for someone like you. Apologist for the brutal Chinese regime!

I have been living in China for 7 years and know a few Tibetans. Yes, they rioted because of discrimination against them by the Han majority and Han police officials in their own country. Yes, the Han government violently suppressed them, including arresting and murdering some tibetans who had nothing to do with the riots, both women and little girls. Yes, the Tibetans targeted people according to race. I don't condone the violence, but if you were constantly harassed by racist Han people, eventually you would pick up a knife too.

Should all German Turkish people pick up a knife too because they were discriminate by German society!! Statistic showed, lot of German Turkish kids are not willing to learn German and intergrate into the society. All other immigrants (Vietnamese the best) are OK intergrated, they make friends with German kids.
Think about why Tibetan were so backward in all these centuries under Dalai Lama's rule. Karma is what they are..
Some people who lost their power so they riots. You can practise Buddhism without a temple.

The fact remains that Tibetans are second class citizens in their own country and they are discriminated against by Han people. Making comparisons is not as simple as you think, and we all already know it is a Chinese ruse to get people off the topic at hand. Tibetans are not better off than under the Dalai Lama, because most of the statistic on tibetan growth doesn't discriminate against Hans living in Tibet and Tibetans themselves. Most Tibetans are still living the same way they have always lived, with a few modern articles in their house which would have happened with basic technological development of the entire nation.

People are rioting because they are discriminated against, and your white washing of this issue shows your brainwashing and racism. How many Tibetans do you know?

Is this Roderick, the Chalmers from International Crisis Group in Nepal. No wonder then about the stretch on Tibetans being Jews of 30s Germany....

While West's enthrallment with Tibetans verges on fetishism, they have benefited immensely indeed. Richest refugees in the world (true in that respect with the Jews), with mega monasteries (one Ameircan researcher was mesmerized by the opulence of these monasteries that only westerners are welcome to check in by using credit card online), luxurious SUV, biggest mansions in Nepal, the unseemly sight of monks in robes gobbling up at KFC, Pizza Hut while doodling iPad and iPhone, without so much if shame in vulgar display of material luxury.....Buddha must be turning in his grave or coiling in the cloud at the sight...so much for ascetisim!! And poor Bhutanese of Nepali extraction, fleeing the ethnic cleansing in Bhutan, toiling in mud hut refugee camp.... a tell tale contrast of two refugees indeed. While Bhutan gets pat on the back for Gross National Happiness! Tell me about a prejudiced conditioning of Brain...

The real jews are the people of Nepal, who are neither Madhises (Indian immigrants) or Tibetans (West's foster children).

Why are Tibetans second-class citizens in China? Are they subjected to the one-child policy? Are they living in reservations like the Indian reservations in the USA? Or are they killed like the countless Jews in Nazi Germany?

Your questions is crucial and profound.There is no doubt that Tibetans is not second-citizens in China. The most ethnic Han people is friendly and helpful with Tibetans .China don't intend to eradicate Tibetan's culture absolutely,they just hope Tibetan merge With ethnic Han people and enjoy a better life.

Aye, China should have learned from US in their dealings w/ Native Americans. Then, this problem would not even exist today.

I think China keeps Tibetans around because they are the only people in China who can comfortably live on the high plateau that is Tibet. Han women in Tibet, for example, would always wait out pregnancies in lowlands, since giving birth on high plateau increase chances of stillbirth and other complications. Just my two cents though (which won't be worth much after a couple of years of discounting anyways).

What a shame for Nepal.Right now China wants only to control the Tibetans in Nepal, but how long will that last? Next they will want to control anyone in Nepal who does not agree with what the Chinese Gov't wants to do in Nepal. This is a sad and dangerous time for Nepal. If the Gov't of Nepal doesn't stand up to China, then all hopes for the "New Nepal" will be smashed.
Nepal was never colonized- but now the Chinese are well on their way to colonizing Nepal. Without a constitution and a strong government, the people of Nepal stand little chance against the Dragon to the North.

What a shame Aelize (if that is your real name)! We in Nepal has provided for the 20,000+ Tibetians for past many years. But we have to be sensitive to our neghbiours as well. It is easy for you to bark against us but we have difficult job to balance. China has been the most friendly nation towards us notwithstanding their own self interest. We have let Tibetians to live peacefully; but if they want to stire disharmony using our land, then they are not wellcome in our land!

It's true that Nepal has provided us with refuge for the past 50 or so years and we are certainly grateful for that. However the path that Nepal is currently taking is dangerous and illegal in the eyes of international law.
Nepal is a democratic country unlike China, and so freedom of expression and assembly is enshrined in its constitution. Since when did a peaceful prayer meeting became a national security issue that Nepal has to clamp down so hard on Tibetans? Preventive arrest of anyone resembling Tibetans, Monks or Nuns in Nepal is not something that you'd expect to see in Nepal but it happens very often. It is one thing to balance Nepal's own self interest but not at the expense of Tibetan refugees. If Tibetans are such a nuisance in Nepal, why don't the govt issue them exit permits? I very strongly feel that they need these Tibetan refugees in Nepal as a leverage to gain more aids from China. Otherwise why do you think China would be so interested in Nepal to begin with?
It's sad to see the Nepal govt prostituting themselve for more Chinese aids. I sincerely hope that Nepal revert from this dangerous course, and work towards regaining its status in the world as a responsible country that respects the rule of law and not be a puppet of China or any other country for that matter.

Rangzen59, it may not be democratic but for every county its national interest comes first. We may have sympathy for the Tibatens but we will certainly NOT compromise national interest or national security over it. It is not just about 'Chinese money'. And stop using word like prostituting.....you Tibetains may be doing it not us!!!

Nepal has become a very willing puppet of the Chinese government that one might be mistaken to think that its just another province of China!
There are documented cases and even pictures of Chinese embassy officials directing the Nepalese riot police to crack down on peaceful protest in Kathmandu, Nepal! We are not talking about some remote border outpost where the Chinese security forces operates anyways on both sides of the border, but Kathmandu is the capital of Nepal. This just shows the extent of Chinese influence in Nepal politics! If that's not a blatant prostitution of one's own country for more Chinese aids, then I don't know what to say.
I think you need to brush up on your own history. Nepal used the treaties that it made with the then independent Tibet as an evidence of it own independence to gain UN membership and now it parrots the Chinese govt line so faithfully that Tibet is a part of China and blah blah.. Do you really think Nepal can afford to antagonize the whole international community with Chinese backing only? Look at the recent developments in Burma and you'll know what I am talking about. Wake up before its too late.

Agree with Ramhari116. Indian supression to Nepal will worsen if Nepal's relationship with China weakens. Tibetians are treated fairly in Nepal as long as they abide by Nepali rules. However, I wish I live to see Dalai Lama rule Lhasa.

It is shocking that China tells Nepal how to run it's country, even to the extent of openly flooding Nepal with spies. Where is Nepal's self-respect? What happened to your balls? Nepal is more than half way to becoming province of China.

Ramhari116, do you think that basic freedoms like such in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights should be scrapped because of Nepal's "national interests" with China? Are you willing to have your country commit human rights violations so that you can stay "friendly" with China? Where's Nepal's dignity? If you care about your country, you would stand up against what's wrong and try to help Tibetan refugees fleeing one of the most repressive governments in the world instead of complaining about them. Why do you think 30 Tibetans have self-immolated in Tibet in the past year? Is it because they want to die in the most painful there is for no reason? Or is the situation in Tibet so repressive that they feel that they have no other options to protest? Then they escape into your country where you are accusing them of "stirring disharmony". Have you no heart?

Simple, just ask American government to accept Tibetan refugees from Nepal, so they will live peacefully in the land of freedom. So CHina has no excuse to support Nepal financially. Win Win situation...

I can clearly see that you're not well informed about whole the Tibetan issue. The American govt has offered to settle 5000 Tibetan refugees since early 2000 but it's the Nepal govt who kept stalling the process by not issuing the exit permits to them. So like I said earlier, its more a case of Nepal govt exploiting Tibetans in return for more aids from China. That's pathetic to say the least!

PL123, PLEASE READ THE WHOLE ARTICLE before you comment and try to criticize others. The US Government has offered to resettle 5000 stateless Tibetan refugees in Nepal, but the Nepali government HAS REFUSED to issue the departure stamp for Tibetans to emigrate. So again, please read the FULL ARTICLE before you ignorantly comment on an issue you don't fully understand.

Please understand it is just peanut to accept 5,000 refugees. More are in India, they live miserable under India, a second-class refugees!! If you think American has heart for Tibetans then accept them all. Give Nepalese government more money than China offer them. Simple!!
Or auction the refugees in eBay, who pay more who get it ??? It works !!

PL123, it's funny that you mention Tibetans in India since I've been living and working in a Tibetan exile community in India for the past 5 years, so you don't need to preach to me about the living conditions of Tibetans in India. So again, you're writing about something you are ignorant about. And you absolutely cannot compare the rights of Tibetans in India and Nepal. At least the Government of India issues Resident Certificates and Identity Certificates that act as a de facto passports for travelling abroad. Of course, this is a right Tibetans in Nepal can only dream of.

And by the way, I'm glad you read the full article after I mentioned it. Now, try talking to some Tibetans in Nepal and India, see how they live, maybe even try working there for a couple of years and then get back to me about what you think. Just remember to decide for yourself after you've seen the actual situation on the ground.

Thanks for letting me know you are one of the NGO member!! Good luck for your fund-raising !!
BTW do exil Tibetans learn Tibetan language in India? How is their voting system? People told me the monks, Nuns and Noble class has 2 votes in their hand, but all other has only one vote? Is that true!!

Are Tibetans not your neighbours? Are they not your brothers? Was their land not invaded by Chinese? What have you done to tell your Chinese friends for this nacked invasion? What will happen to you if China invades Nepal? [ it is already on!]
Unless you are a Chinese agent, you should know better about Chinese designs for Himalayas.

Exiled Tibetans in India are permitted to learn their language, follow their culture and worship Dalai Lama. In 2011, they voted to elect prime-minister-in-exile. McLeodGanj, a village within the Dharamshala municipality, is the home of the current Dalai Lama and the exiled Tibetan government. Contrary to your notion, Tibetans in India are not suppressed or stigmatized.

Let us all stand for human rights first and not be blind towards the suffering of people around us. Tibetans,like all others, should be free to follow their own way of living and no authority in this world should be against it. Let us not trade freedom for money and dignity for influence.

http://www.jamyangnorbu.com/blog/2012/03/05/tibetans-never-had-a-country...
Interesting to read the comments too.
"Kalon Tripa Dr. Lobsang Sangay needs to explain the statement he made on video to stol.it, the South Tyrol Online journal on March 02. 2012. Replying to a question “What is it like being a prime minster without a country?. Dr. Lobsang Sangay answered clearly and deliberately ” Well… I can’t say for sure because, Tibetans, we never had a country.” Is Dr. Lobsang Sangay attempting to surpass the record for bizarre utterances established by our previous Kalon Tripa Professor Samdong Rimpoche, who declared on March 13, 2009 that the “Tibet Issue is the Internal Affair of the People’s Republic of China?” What on earth is going on here?"

As you say, Tibetans in exil are permitted to learn Tibetan in India, but do they have a chance to learn in reality (school)? As i know most of Tibetans in India learn english. Specially monks and nuns, the previlege class (the very 1% in a western term).

How was the election like then ? Did Nobles and monks has 2 votes each, and ordinary Tibetans has only one vote ? Can you answer me ?

I have NEVER said "Tibetans in India are not suppressed or stigmatized.". I said they live in India MISERABLE !!

yes we will .As an true indian i will assure you we have the heart to accept all the tibetan refugees respectfully.Same like we are accepting the nepalese in our armed service and other services.
We indians believe in peace,but china want to dominate others.
Thank you my dear ,think like a human ,not like a dragon.

Dear pl123 .china is such a country which hasnt spare even india,and try to conquer its territories ,than where you exists.If you wish, time is near when you will ride the dragon or vice versa.if second probability occurs ,you are merely a slave ,because dragon wont give the chance.

Have you check your recent history yet?? Hyderabad and Goa?? Ring the bell!! Did we see the Indian Hindu killing their Indian Islamic brothers in the film of "Slumdog Millionaire". Or is it just a Bollywood illusion!

2/3 Dalits lives in poverty, welcome to the zoo of tolerant !! Chinese Tibetans live much better than your people, don't worry.

Jean Michel: India is a country that celebrates diversity. Each ethnic/religious group is free to practice their customs and traditions. Dharamshala is a place inhabited by Indians, or people who feel that this place can offer safety and order. Every citizen in India is free and fairly independent.
So where does the question of independence of Dharamshala come from? Do you know what Dharamshala is? It is a small town in the state of Himachal Pradesh. I request you to check your facts before putting forth any argument here.

Dharamsala is the land of the Tibetans. Why should they not be granted independence? They have free and fair elections and they even elected their Prime Minister. It is not a question of size but a question of rights.

Jean Michel: First of all, Tibet is the land of Tibetans. Secondly, what makes you think that all Tibetans live in Dharamshala? They are scattered in various parts of India as well as this world. Thirdly, do you know the size of Dharamshala? It is a small town.
Also, I'd like to ask you one thing. What do you mean by independence? They are already independent in terms of what they want to practice. And so are the people belonging to different ethnicities in India and in some parts of the world. Also they voted for their prime-minister-in exile. Other Tibetans not living in India did the same I guess.
Going by your argument, the world should be divided into tiny little towns/countries with homogeneous population. Imagine the map of this world then. There will be so many mini-Chinas, Indias, Koreas, japans, Irans etc in the US. And same holds good for Britain and many other countries in this world. So let us give up on this idea of dividing, sub diving, sub sub dividing the world. It is the root cause of all the conflicts.
Going by your previous comments, you also mentioned that 99% of Tibetans are happy in China. How do you explain so many self-immolations? Why do you think Richard Gere is an ardent supporter of Tibetan movement and is banned from entering China?
Please note that I am not anti-china. I think that the country has done a great job in lifting large masses of people out of poverty. However, what it is doing in Tibet is something I can never support and no one should because it goes against the very values we humans stand for.

A geography-refresher for you. Tibetans were driven out from their homeland by the Chinese. They came to India as refugees and the Indian govt allowed them to set-up a temporary base in this town of Dharamshala, India. India did not occupy Tibetan land. The Chinese did and still are.