Originally posted by converge
I don't agree with people voting down the other ideas, but everyone's free to do whatever they want.

As long as then they don't start whining that others have been voting 'ours' down.

I know, I admit it was just a weak moment and I proclaim that my actions were completely out of my control. Found out that you could only vote once
and my better judgment took the time to take a stroll around the block.

I find it amusing that you're accusing others of gross mischaracterization, when you yourself are avoiding the argument. If you're legitimately
missing the point, that's one thing, but I don't think that's the case based on your general level of discourse.

I'll address your question before revisiting why I believe it's in the best interest of those in power to disclose national security threats to
those they serve.

I am not talking about an attack or anything of the sort. I am talking about a bare-minimum. If any of this is real at a bare-minimum and the
government had full disclosure, it would be an admission that our airspace is being violated, our citizens abducted, and there is nothing we can do
about it.

How would that revelation be responsible?

It's irresponsible because should the government prove incapable of doing anything to the contrary, people have the right to know how their lives are
being toyed with. Even if there's little to nothing that can be done at the very least people have the right to discuss and understand fully what's
happening to them. Lets revisit the Declaration of Independence:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable
Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving
their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the
People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as
to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Think of all the abductees out there. If people inside the government are aware that this has been happening, and they've continued to cloud the
issue, any sane person would agree that those citizens have had their "safety" and "happiness" compromised not only by this non-terrestrial
presence but through obfuscation introduced by government secrecy.

If that's the case and the government has prevented its citizens from addressing the most fundamental aspects of their well-being then they've
defaulted for possibly 60 years now on their most basic responsibility.

Now getting back to my original point.

If there are people in government who are aware of this they should be terrified, because people fundamentally want to be treated with
the respect and dignity to be able to decide for themselves the best course for their lives. The longer any official with that kind of knowledge
obscures the issue the more likely people will retaliate. Therefore I repeat for the third time now ...

It's in the best interest of those who govern to disclose what's known (and I'm not saying they know much if anything) simply to lessen
accountability.

If those people in government care about their own skins it's best for them to mitigate culpability by simply being forthright about issues of
national security and disclosing information so it can be discussed on the public stage.

I have. It seems the Disclosurists are more concerned with an agenda than the truth. They are yet another group that thinks they have all the
answers, and believe the UFO phenomenon is akin to an episode of Star Trek. Nor have they considered that if there is a cover-up, then the aliens
themselves are active participants.

Of course what you say is true, but there is disclosure and then there is disclosure. I can think of many parts of ufology that should remain
classified and disclosure is like Pandora's box, once you open it everything can come out. The good and the bad.

However, there is a lot tobe gained from the acknowledgement that we are not alone and that ET species are way ahead of us on the technology curve.
Without even telling the people anything of substance, a little humility is what we need right now on this over populated rock.

Hey just an update we're currently at 2600 points and the top topic, the ridiculously dumb bullet train idea is at 18850 points!!! We need to beat
that score or at least get in the first page so our idea will get more notice and will eventually boost the vote. Anyone try putting this up on
digg.com?

Originally posted by Winsor
Sen an e-mail with the link and some info to everyone at Coast to Coast. Suggest other people send some as well to increase the likelihood that it
gets mentioned on the show.

Here are some addresses for the crew at Coast. They reach millions of like minded individuals as those here and could really put the word out. The
main thing here is to not let this topic be a "one hit wonder" and get pushed the back of the line.

Although you can only vote once, you can encourage others to sign in and vote.

Also, this event doesn't have to just appear on the show but could be included in a prominent display for those that visit the Coast website.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
I find it amusing that you're accusing others of gross mischaracterization, when you are avoiding the argument.

What I find amusing is that my computer is telling me that "mischaracterization" is spelled wrong, but the dictionary is telling me it's spelled
right.

But I digress...

Originally posted by Xtraeme
If you're legitimately missing the point, that's one thing, but I don't think that's the case based on your general level of discourse.

I understand your point. But I disagree.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
Even if there's little to nothing that can be done at the very least people have the right to discuss and understand fully what's happening to
them.

It seems they already have the right to discuss it and understand what is happening to them. They do not need the government to tell them.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
Think of all the abductees out there. If people inside the government are aware that this has been happening, and they've continued to cloud the
issue, any sane person would agree that those citizens have had their "safety" and "happiness" compromised not only by this non-terrestrial
presence but through obfuscation introduced by government secrecy.

First, such a revelation would also compromise the safety and happiness of the citizenry. Second, if the government could not do anything about these
intrusions, then it would not matter if the government were keeping it secret or not. In fact, it may be better to keep such things secret. I admit
it is a Faustian bargain of sorts.

Originally posted by Xtraeme
If that's the case and the government has prevented its citizens from addressing the most fundamental aspects of their well-being then they've
defaulted for possibly 60 years now on their most basic responsibility.

Actually, they are not preventing anyone from addressing it. We are talking about it right now, aren't we? And again, I ask...how would it be
responsible to incite a panic by telling them there is nothing they, the government or the individual, can do to ensure their safety?

Your logic works boths ways. Unless YOU have done a survey of alien culture, weaponry, etc... You have no way of knowing whether they even 1) pose a
threat 2) can't be deterred.

For all you know, they are completely harmless and the government allows them to move about without consequences. Oh, I don't know, for technological
benefit's sake??

At the end of the day it boils down to one simple thing... Government needs to be accountable to its citizens - period.
I don't advocate secrecy of this sort under any circumstances. Even in the worst case scenario, forewarned is forearmed.

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
Your logic works boths ways. Unless YOU have done a survey of alien culture, weaponry, etc... You have no way of knowing whether they even 1) pose a
threat 2) can't be deterred.

That is true. I am working with a bare-minimum assumption; that if the bare-minimum of these stories are true, they have a technology that far
surpasses our own. In the face of that, what could be done?

Originally posted by Jay-in-AR
For all you know, they are completely harmless and the government allows them to move about without consequences. Oh, I don't know, for technological
benefit's sake??

That is true. But if stories of abduction are true, then it would not be a stretch to say they are not completely harmless. And considering they
seem to be able to move about at whim, why would they need a government's permission or make deals with anyone?

Of course, this is an assumption, but a society sufficiently advanced would regard us in much the same way we regard lions or chimpanzees or wolves.

Again it wont matter how smart he is or how much he buys into the ET/UFO coverup. Rest assured, he will, if not already, get intel information about
some of it, but as far as him actually being able to initiate the release of this tech, thats something entirely different.

LOL..what the heck does NJ and its wind turbine have to do with the price of tea in China? Wind turbines have been around for over 15 years. There are
many states where the wind is abundant that are putting in wind turbines to augment the coal and natural gas fired power plants. Thats been going on
for some time.

Unless the congress makes a change by hautling the black op funding and re-initiates a law to regulate and oversee black operations, and what it has
and knows where all that money is going to, disclosure wont happen at all, just the good ol drip drip steady as the leak goes deal.

Sorry, but thats the facts. All this effort will be for nothing unless its directed where it needs to be directed, structured specifically to get
congress to change the laws so that all this hidden technology is not outside of the legal system, and then and only then will the president, no
matter who it is, will be able to act on getting it out into the public.

But hey...this isnt the first time this kind of effort has been attempted. But just reading through this thread and the change.gov site, its going to
end up being a futile effort and 6 months down the road, or heck even a year, everyone will remember what I said here, that it wont get us any closer
to disclosure because the effort is being directed at the wrong place.

Take that to the bank people. This needs to be directed at congress. This needs to be done professionaly, not blasted on a public free for all video
site and 2000 votes. Your going to need ALOT more than that, like 250 million votes or more, then you will have some clout to get noticed.

It wouldnt hurt either to do this in a manner that gets you on the front page of the NY Times and on major networks and high profile talk programs.

Good luck..its gonna need it.

Cheers!!!!

Black ops? What, are they gonna take over the world? lol

I like this theory that the president isn't involved and is on a need to know basis, or whatever...

How about a conspiracy theory that the president is directly involved...

When I stated that Barack Obama is a smart man, he's not gonna let some one tell him, no you can't see this, top secret, my okole top secret!

Cheers Brah!!!!!

So you're telling me if a president tried to force disclosure, they will be killed? You will probably tell me it has happened before, lol, PROOF! The
"Black ops" will stop at nothing? You know what, YOU need to think about it. Black ops, I think you're right there is a "black ops" unit
protecting information, but I honestly think the president is involved, and I have tremendous fear that our last president was involved, AND, you're
gonna tell me now, "well Bush? He's an idiot," you know what? They just fooled YOU!

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