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I am 5 weeks into a 7 week stay in Kiev. The longer I'm here the more I wonder whether the city life is for me. I live in a suburb in the Western US. I am used to driving a car and being able to work on it when I want. Public transit is quite impressive here, especially the raw efficiency of the underground system. However, I don't like all the standing up, being crammed in next to big sweaty guys, or the lack of air conditioning.

Back home I exercise with a bicycle ride and home gym in the morning. I get the results I want without needing to walk around all day to burn more calories.

My question. Are there cities in Ukraine with more of a suburban lifestyle? I mean a place where I can rent or buy a small house with a garage. And paved roads are important too. I went to Lviv a week ago. The part I saw was quite beautiful but not really suburban.

I suppose there are suburbs of Kiev itself. I am busy teaching every day but Saturday, but I should just take some time off or quit these jobs early so I can explore a little while I'm here.

Seen these types of developments in Russia, hugely expensive, and not generally for rent. Brother in law has a mortgage in Russia at eye watering rates and with a huge deposit and short term.

Yup, I was going to ask how rich justadude was feeling. For him cash purchase only, rental off the table, unless his employer was renting the place for favoured employees on bubble postings from outside Ukraine.

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"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

Seen these types of developments in Russia, hugely expensive, and not generally for rent. Brother in law has a mortgage in Russia at eye watering rates and with a huge deposit and short term.

I have seen a number and they go for around $150,000 USD for new home construction on the Sea. But at that price you are a bit outside the city so need a vehicle. A loan at a reasonable rate may be difficult for a foreigner as you mention.

Like everywhere it will come down to location and amenities.

In the suburbs you can rent a home for several hundred dollars if you want to live like a native they tell me. Working class neighborhood, no paved roads, some still without indoor toilet accommodations.

Seen these types of developments in Russia, hugely expensive, and not generally for rent. Brother in law has a mortgage in Russia at eye watering rates and with a huge deposit and short term.

I have seen a number and they go for around $150,000 USD for new home construction on the Sea. But at that price you are a bit outside the city so need a vehicle. A loan at a reasonable rate may be difficult for a foreigner as you mention.

Like everywhere it will come down to location and amenities.

In the suburbs you can rent a home for several hundred dollars if you want to live like a native they tell me. Working class neighborhood, no paved roads, some still without indoor toilet accommodations.

The ones we looked at in Russia (former friend's development) where in the $4m bracket, nice big homes on the face of it, gated and walled, very US in style (he's American but lets not go there - lets just say he's not gonna be in Russia for much longer) this was 2008, none built, fast forward to now, still none built. As Russia is far more stable economically than Ukraine I wouldn't get anyones hopes up. Also other places we saw the quality was abysmal! Toilets not fixed down, light switches all different heights, this was a lived-in new-build.

We weren't interested in buying - the chap was just showing us his property 'empire'.....

BIL's mortgage is criminal, 2 year term, 20% interest, massive deposit, hardly counts as a mortgage, more like a bridging loan....

I am 5 weeks into a 7 week stay in Kiev. The longer I'm here the more I wonder whether the city life is for me. I live in a suburb in the Western US. I am used to driving a car and being able to work on it when I want. Public transit is quite impressive here, especially the raw efficiency of the underground system. However, I don't like all the standing up, being crammed in next to big sweaty guys, or the lack of air conditioning.

Back home I exercise with a bicycle ride and home gym in the morning. I get the results I want without needing to walk around all day to burn more calories.

My question. Are there cities in Ukraine with more of a suburban lifestyle? I mean a place where I can rent or buy a small house with a garage. And paved roads are important too. I went to Lviv a week ago. The part I saw was quite beautiful but not really suburban.

I suppose there are suburbs of Kiev itself. I am busy teaching every day but Saturday, but I should just take some time off or quit these jobs early so I can explore a little while I'm here.

Where are places I can visit to find the suburban lifestyle?

The quick answer is no, the idea of 'a suburban lifestyle' if one compares Ukraine to the US. The Kiev suburbs are highly isolated, my wife works as a real estate agent in Kiev and I have seen enough. Yes the public transport is efficicent but the grime comes with it. Seeing that Kiev has been the last week or so very warm I understand the displeasure.

Ukraine villages, which tend to be agriculture oriented, seem to be highly insular and it is hard to build any sort of relationships there. At least that is my impression.

What I would suggest is build in a local neighbourhood a network of trust worthy locals. Meaning where you can get a good coffee, a good beer and local produce. From there it will expand as they get to know you. I note this assuming you want to expand beyond the expat circle.

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“If you aren't in over your head, how do you know how tall you are?” T.S. Eliot

Doesn’t really exist unless you can afford one of those Western style exclaves for homesick Americans. Seem it’s just either flats or villages.....

Ste, there are property developers in UA / RU that have made gated communities - but they tend to be far enough out of town that public transport doesn't reach - very secure - patrolled and priced for Oligarchs

The sad fact is that most RU homes that are 'nice' have high /secure fences - ensuring you can't see the garden and when building new apt blocks - there isn't living accommodation - may be shops - as the ground ( first floor) is undesirable - 'unsafe'

FSU folk are shocked that UK suburban homes have open plan gardens, and windows that are ajar when occupied..... and yet ...... We are renting out an apt and living in the wilds - in a largish home of questionable construction - unfinished - but the location is idyllic

We sometimes forget to lock the doors / windows / car and don't feel too worried about it ... If a 'bad un' wanted to break in they could ..EASILY .. and be 'savaged' by a v.small dog, 1 cat and 6 (month old) kittens ... Our neighbours watch over the place when we aren't here and I've rigged up a security surveillance system using a sub 100 USD system of our own making .... There is no Russian GSM coverage - but we get a crackin' 4G signal from the neighbouring country

It's more like a farm house from Heatbeart - a UK series from the 70's - but it's been a fantastic buy... I'm not in to gardening, yet .. but the former owner has clearly grown tomatoes, bananas, etc.

The cost ? 1.7 million R Roubles ... 150sq m living space - plus a sizeable plot .... less than 10 km away 120m of living space would cost ten times more and the 'garden' would be a joke...

Until there is a change in mentality - such places will be rare in the FSU. (

I have seen a number and they go for around $150,000 USD for new home construction on the Sea. But at that price you are a bit outside the city so need a vehicle. A loan at a reasonable rate may be difficult for a foreigner as you mention.

Like everywhere it will come down to location and amenities.

In the suburbs you can rent a home for several hundred dollars if you want to live like a native they tell me. Working class neighborhood, no paved roads, some still without indoor toilet accommodations.

I could see spending $150-160K on a house in Ukraine in a couple of years, while still keeping a property in the States. I would not be interested in borrowing money for this. But I think it would make more sense for me to rent. I guess I don't trust the Ukrainian real estate market. What if the currency goes through another massive devaluation? On the flip side, many locals seem to think the market is relatively stable and that real estate is a pretty safe bet.

You used the word 'relatively' it is true. If you need a place to live for the long term there's strong arguments for buying. On your case the real. Estate market, on your time horizon, is anything but. Worse still, for you an unsettled foreigner, is liquidity. What happens when the itinerant teaching of English pallas, as it does for almost all who try it? Can you get your money back?

I bet that, all costs considered, renting is cheaper. Renting is more flexible. Renting is easier.

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"For what else is the life of man but a kind of play in which men in various costumes perform until the director motions them offstage?" -Erasmus

I bet that, all costs considered, renting is cheaper. Renting is more flexible. Renting is easier.

Maybe you can rent something on the outskirts of Kiev and get a throw away car like an old Lada? Find yourself a mechanic. Get the phone number of a towing service. Driving in the big city is intimidating. I am considering living in the city of Mtskheta 10 miles north of here (Tbilisi). Mtskheta is beautiful and easy to drive in. In Tbilisi it is like a wild jungle with some of the craziest intersections you've ever seen. The drivers seem to be constantly testing each other on who has dominance. Cutting in front of each other and so on. But Mtskheta has much less traffic and road planning that is less complicated. Mtskheta is like a suburban city but actually older than Tbilisi by centuries and is not considered a suburb.

Maybe you can rent something on the outskirts of Kiev and get a throw away car like an old Lada? Find yourself a mechanic.

Driving in the big city is intimidating. I am considering living in the city of Mtskheta 10 miles north of here (Tbilisi). Mtskheta is beautiful and easy to drive in. In Tbilisi it is like a wild jungle with some of the craziest intersections you've ever seen. The drivers seem to be constantly testing each other on who has dominance. Cutting in front of each other and so on.

I am my own mechanic, which is why I want a place with a garage)

But I would love to get an old Lada and mod it! Maybe something along these lines, although I've never seen a 2 door like this. I think I would go with a 4 door since they are so much more plentiful. Also, I like the old round headlights. I believe this car is essentially a FIAT 124. It looks a lot like a Datsun 510, which is a serious cult car in the US. Small, light, simple and rear wheel drive. I owned 16 FIAT 124 spiders in the states.

I agree with you about the driving. Here in Kiev the driving is as you describe. It is survival of the aggressive. I think I would have trouble with

I was able to visit an area on the outskirts of Kiev to look at houses on Saturday. A real estate agent showed us only one house. But it was really cool. $145,000 for this 206 m^2 two story. It is brand new and really nice inside, but the kitchen is not finished. One sad thing is no trees anywhere in the neighborhood itself. I really like to have trees around. It has a one car garage, but doesn't have a garage door opener and has the wrong style of garage door for that. Does anyone know if electric garage door openers are a thing here? I am not considering this particular house, but it was nice to see an actual house in stone with a price.

Another negative was the fence that goes all around the property. I don't like the idea of having to get out of the car to open the gate to drive in. This seemed common to the neighborhood. In fact, we only drove by one house that was different in this way.