Yep lets just ignore the laws of physics, it just poisons the well. You have to conflicting stories both with some credible evidence. A few people trying to get to the bottom of this, while others dogmatically insist that it is a waist of time, and should move on to other things. I am really glad people in the truth movement are so open minded to tell people what should and should not be looked into.

Thought police much?

Again arguing about the pentagon is like beating nails in with a dead fish. Until new evidence comes to light both sides of this issue are at a complete dead lock and do nothing but harm the movement at this point. Hell, I'm one who believes in no plane crashed at the Pentagon but I'm not wasting my time arguing with good people about it. People can disagree sometimes without one of them being an op. Understand?

Kiss your sister much?

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This country did not achieve greatness with the mindset of "safety first" but rather "live free or die".

Truth is the currency of love. R[̲̅ə̲̅٨̲̅٥̲̅٦̲̅]ution!﻿

We are all running on Gods laptop.The problem is the virus called the Illuminati. ~EvadingGrid

What fascinates me about the people who cling to pentagon no-plane theories is the circular logic.

Someone sees Loose Change Second Edition, the movie makes a distorted but convincing case for the theory that no-plane hit the pentagon, the chief argument being that hardly any debris was found at the scene. People then become invested in that belief. Then they have it pointed out to them that in fact lots of debris was found, and they say "Oh well all that must have been planted!", the reasoning behind this dismissal of evidence, is because they "know" that no plane crashed into the Pentagon. But ironically, the reason they became convinced of the no-plane belief in the first place, the reason they "know" there was no plane, is because there was "no debris".

What fascinates me about the people who cling to pentagon no-plane theories is the circular logic.

Someone sees Loose Change Second Edition, the movie makes a distorted but convincing case for the theory that no-plane hit the pentagon, the chief argument being that hardly any debris was found at the scene. People then become invested in that belief. Then they have it pointed out to them that in fact lots of debris was found, and they say "Oh well all that must have been planted!", the reasoning behind this dismissal of evidence, is because they "know" that no plane crashed into the Pentagon. But ironically, the reason they became convinced of the no-plane belief in the first place, the reason they "know" there was no plane, is because there was "no debris".

The "no-plane" phrase is a misdirection. It's a slur of the truth. What the phrase should be is "no 757". It really doesn't matter what it actually was initially, because the government says it was a 757 commercial airliner and I say the government is bold-faced lying.

With all those spare planes sitting in the desert in southern Arizona, take a 757 for a test drive and see what's left at the alledged airspeeds. I find it curious that so far I haven't seen any video of impact tests of airplanes where they show the after-impact results, what debris is left after the dust settles.

Logged

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows." 1 Timothy 6:10 (KJB)

LOL! Yes, obviously I am trying to censor you. Might want to get a grip on your paranoia.

Good thing too, or you would question wether a plane flew into the WTC.

You think this is a hole at the pentagon. Nope a plane can not fit fit in there....But this is no plane propaganda designed to deceive you..this is a picture of the water covering the hole

Hole at WTC caused by a plane....

No water covering hole at pentagon

The parts not heavy i.e. engine landing gear etc....was NOT disintegrated....like I said, more parts were found at the pentagon than the WTC

Simple respectful honest, and genuinely serious question for you to answer for us here Jim. Can you do addition and multiplication?

The "hole" made by the 757 at 500 NMPH in the WTC Tower in the center photo you posted here is 6 STORIES HIGH which equals 12' X 6 = 72 FEET HIGH. The tallest "hole" in the US Army's Resource Services Washington civilian accounting and audit services division Wedge One offices investigating $2.3 trillion in criminal "surplus" appropriations to Blackwater is barely 2 STORIES HIGH. AS You have illustrated here for us, the entire building is only 71 feet high! (in fact a WTC 'story' is closer to 14 feet)

AT 575 MPH, coming that close to the ground, the "airliner" would certainly pitch powerfully to one side due to low pressure suction at the lower jet intake, raising the other wing steeply before contact, yaw-around, roll-dive and breakup. The smallest conceivable vertical hole that a perfect "575 MPH bulls-eye crash contact" could possibly make is 4-5 STORIES HIGH (an olympic record jet javelin-tossing feat of impossible accuracy which no ace Top Gun carrier pilot could accomplish at any such speed), the plane itself is over 4 stories high, in flight.

How does a 4-7 STORY HIGH "airliner crash" fit into one or two stories as your theory suggests?

You will also notice that there is no clear, unobstructed 141' WIDE hole anywhere, either. there is no fuselage ditch nor two jet engine ditch earthworks either! In fact the widest conceivable swath of horizontal damage is CLEARLY blocked and obstructed by the huge wooden wire spools that are totally undamaged and barely disturbed.

Not only do I wholeheartedly agree with you about the wings, but I think we also noticed two rather gargantuan vacuum cleaner jet engine intake "suckers" (like giant vacuum cleaner hose nozzles, in fact) that make it simply and categorically impossible for an airborne airliner to come across a lawn at the altitude of a John Deere tractor.

Simple respectful honest, and genuinely serious question for you to answer for us here Jim. Can you do addition and multiplication?

For the last 3 years I've been answering your stupid no planer questions. How about you answer one. How come you refuse to acknowledge the witnesses, physical evidence, and common sense? I already know the answer./ Because you are more interested in your silly theories than the truth.

How come you wont play my game? You post 1 witness at the scene who saw anything other than a plane hitting the pentagon and I will post 3 witnesses that saw a plane hit the building. You wont. Because you can't. You can't because a plane hit the building. So....what kind of plane? Maybe it was a passenger jet since that's what most said, and that's what the plane debris is from. Most people can figure that out but you promote the hoax designed to discredit us. You are helping the Government.

To illustrate the gist of the prior posting better lets review the evidence once again:

You Don't know what the word evidence means. I post real pictures of physical evidence. You claim it doesn't exist and then show photo shopped images claiming it is evidence you fool no one but gullible people who don't look for the truth but for anything to back up their beliefs.... like yourself.

How do you explain this eyewitness? She claimed to see a passenger jet fly into the pentagon. I can explain it easy. That's what happened. Is she "in on it"?

How do you explain this eyewitness? He claims a he saw a passenger jet fly into the pentagon. Claims it was an American Airlines passenger jet. I can explain it easy. That's what happened. Is he "in on it"?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PTRsuRao7A

This eyewitness claims it was a "business jet" does that mean the first two I posted are liars and a missile hit? He doesn't speak English either. It's called gathering evidence and interviewing witness. I've done it for a living. Try using some common sense.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6VuMHaZGuA&feature=related

This eyewitness said an American Airlines Jet hit the pentagon. He saw it. But maybe the reporter told him what to say huh? He "in on it" as well? Maybe the media faked the videos of the WTC and there were no planes at all on 9-11 huh?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_z9sCeYZ54&feature=related

Here is someone that didn't see the plane....OMG! We might have something here! Uh- Oh...listen to what she says at the 50 second mark though LOL! She must be an actress huh?http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyIi7Z3fuhg

This eyewitness lives in an apartment building on the 16th floor he SAW the flyover! Oh wait...no he saw a plane fly into the building like everyone else. No one saw your BS missile you made up. No one. This guy is sure it was a Boeing 757 American Airlines Jet so he has to be "in on it" right? And he is so stupid he f&*ks up and said he thought it hit the ground just before the pentagon. He should have rehearsed the script right? Or maybe....just maybe he like most witnesses get some minor details wrong. Use some common sense. Do you have any? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzBmgsjC6Nc&feature=related

These eyewitnesses all have something else in common. They are all getting slandered and harassed online by so called 9-11 truthers who can't face reality and the fact that their silly missile or flyover theories are a f*^king hoax. Get a clue. This is not helpful. It is the opposite of helpful. It's also disgusting.

But since you love videos so much and can't be bothered listening to the interviews forum member Shure did(who BTW also fell for the no plane at the pentagon hoax but knows now he was duped like most of the rest of this forum seems to be) here is a video he made..........

Now you be a good "truther" and accuse all of these ordinary working class Americans(the very people we need on our side) of being liars because they mean nothing, you want the Government to give you a video they already said they don't have. When will you realize you are helping the Government?

An analysis of the spool positions using photographs from different vantage points shows that the spool nearest the facade was about 30 feet from it. The other standing spools were about 80 feet away from the facade.http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html

I always wonder why people always insist on tryng to prove a plane didn't hit the pentagon just coz of a few percieved damage anomalies, when a much simpler explanation for those damage anomalies that fits the witness testimony better than any other theory and potentially explains the silvery colour of the explosion and the weird smells that some witnesses describe, is the theory that Flight 77 did crash into the pentagon but the plane was rigged with explosives which were detonated a split second before impact to weaken the plane and REDUCE DAMAGE TO THE BUILDING! If they could rig three skyscrapers for demolition, they can rig a plane for demolition!

Too bad they can't 'rig' a plane to fly like a missle ... or to do the same damage as a missile.

Far easier to launch a missile (which actually CAN fly in such a manner and do said damage) than rigging Flight 77 up with explosive devices expecting it to actually hit anything in particular with any degree of precision what so ever.

If Flight 77 had actually crashed into the Pentagon, the PTB would not be in the position of having to explain where the wreckage is, since there was simply no evidence of it being there in the first place - not that it could have crashed in such a way and done the type of damage that was done, anyway.

The Pentagon truly is 9/11's weakest link. Nothing adds up to explain it. Not without hocus pocus of some sort, or smoke and mirrors and a whole bunch of lies.

In fairness, I don't think Damascus was calling anybody an agent or troll by the term "thought police".

In short though, pac522, you are right about this being a waste of time until new facts come to light IMO.

That's not going to happen, since the facts will remain hidden like all true conpiracies that are necessary to commit crimes, and this one was a wopper and had involvement from the highest levels.

People should concentrate more on the anomalies or the things that 'just don't add up' or 'don't look right', they'll discover more, I think.

The only 'proof' that I can think of that may fall into public hands would be if some part of Flight 77's canabalised structure was discovered being sold. The government, or government agents are not going to let anyone get anywhere near any other proof as they have demonstrated so admirably.

I think you are right, essentially, so there are better things to focus on for the moment. I'm willing to let the little things (yes, the Pentagon attack by itself is a little thing, in s sense) slide.

No, I don't think they are about to come clean, and I don't think the "honeypot" scenario is correct either (highly unlikely).

The evidence they have destroyed or are presently hanging onto was/is pretty damning, to be sure.

Quoteof the air-dropped Pegasys JPADS naval Boeing AGM 86C missile launching cargo-palette platform dressed up as a "tent" (with fasteners at 20" centers) with a front launch tube door and exhaust burns in it's skirts as "a Korean War era floorless tensioned arch 16' X 20' Jamesway Hut, (which has only 4' centers and no structurally integral floor) being hustled off the lawn from a position on the lawn coincident with the angle of trajectory of the AUP PENETRATOR missile impact.

there should be a good 100 sourced references for this one given all of the iron clad details.

QuoteI equally cannot accept your explanation

my explanation? when did i attempt to explain something that you have not referenced (as far as I know).

I didn't name anyone and do dearly trust and pray that nobody here is in that category. I am speaking of the holy, sacred Pentagon-religious dogma of the original Saudi funded Sunni-Wahabbist 757 hijacking conspiracy theory as designed, manufactured, engineered and promulgated by the AIPAC Likudniks and the CIA/Pentagon Mafia ZioNAZIs.

This is the top-jet intake Boeing cruise missile which unlike it's Lockheed brother has hardened swing-out wings and can cruise closer to the ground than the Lockheed fixed-wing version can:There is also a surface launched rocket boosted version of this same weapon.

When it is done(spent) the remains of it thus looks EXACTLY like this:You can still see the starboard wing attached to the aft flight control and propulsion/fuel tank remains of this one, and what looks like the port wing folded upside down extending back from underneath it off the rear bottom starboard side. Note the dismounted and now side facing Williams turbofan engine and it's fuel feed lines visible in the background along with the side-skewed remains of the air intake cowling. (Note also that firefighters dragged it out of the building from a point inside close to here, into the light to get a better look at it , it was not left here on it's own since it's third least-hard backed final explosive charge opened the final BROACH penetration punch out hole, self destructing it and arresting it shortly back inside, in front of that tertiary last blast point)

This is the 7' X 20' air-dropped JPADS "missile launcher tube" (disguised by a plastic tarp-shroud covering) on an air cargo palette being hurriedly hustled off of the lawn by obviously disturbed and embarrassed co-conspirators from the precise point out by the road and guardrail on axis with the missile penetration into the Accounting Offices where a fire truck had arrived to deal with the smoking and suspicious launcher immediately after the missile attack.

Note the canvas chute-covered bundled-up PEGASYS (Precision extended glide airdrop system) parachute servo controller package still visible on the ground behind them, between their legs. Note the LAMP POLE AND TREE to the left in the photo - THEN:

Upon closer examination there are four distinct rather special features about it that bear even closer special attention:

1: The blue tarp appears to be an integral part of it, note the 13-14 visible wide-washer fasteners that secure it to the internal frame, these would have taken a great deal of time to attach. This is not a generic tarp "thrown over" something, it's the cover of a very specially designed custom delivery system. The fasteners and inner rail structural and arch framings are on 20" centers.

2: Note it's hemmed, sewed and tailored design and the unique weighted "flap-open" front door panel and side slits. Especially note the 'hardened' triangular 'rider' point it the front bottom which the first whiteshirt has his left hand on. Also note the unique tapered front door bottom hems. (and open unsecured back bottoms to allow gas escape)

3: Note the black "bandage" on the upper center side of the door flap that appears to be supporting it's weight or internal hydraulic top hinged door opening/closing actuator. Note also a tighter more securely held overlapping internal white cuff-sleeve-layer of possibly heat resistant shielding

4: Note the 3 large visible lower melted heat-stretch bulges in the lower-side tarp skirting, due to it having been rocket-jet flame-licked from inside.

5: The location from where this incriminating launcher was being removed that morning is visible in the aerial photo below:

It was suddenly out on the lawn by the roadway early that morning still smoking, spread-out and suspicious enough to have attracted a fire engine where it says "LAMP POLE and TREE".

If this contraption is not, in fact, the largest and most obvious "smoking gun" that I have ever seen, I don't know what else could be.

Quoteof the high Depleted Uranium radiation readings in the Arlington area long after the penetrator missile explosion and fire at the Pentagon

again, there should be at least 10 references of this.

QuoteIf there are 84 other stolen and hidden camera view recordings of the Pentagon that morning 10 years ago that show nothing more than what any passerby could have seen and yet somehow "do not show" an airplane crashing into the Pentagon, then why not release them all? OBVIOUSLY they must show something else.

nothing wrong with that question, but there is a problem with simply ignoring the fact that over 100 items supposedly saying that a missile hit the pentagon have been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to be suspect or outright lies. jimd3100 has thoroughly documented these cases and just ignoring them as if they did not exist represents the so called "group think" stuff that have led millions to support the snake god operation called global warming and population threats to the earth.

Two high profile radiation experts concur Pentagon strike involved use of a missile. Also Geiger counter readings right after the attack shows high levels of radiation 12 miles away from Pentagon crash site.

A radiation expert and high-ranking Army Major, who once headed the military's depleted uranium project, both contend the Pentagon was hit by missile, not a commercial jetliner, adding high radiation readings after the strike indicate depleted uranium also may have been used.

"I'm not an explosives or crash site expert, but I am highly knowledgeable in causes and effects related to nuclear radiation contamination. What happened at the Pentagon is highly suspicious, leading me to believe a missile with a depleted uranium warhead may have been used," said radiation expert Leuren Moret in a telephone conversation this week from her Berkeley, CA home.

Moret, who has spent a life time working in the nuclear field, first as a staff scientist at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Laboratory in California, is now a member of The Radiation and Public Health Project (RPHP), a privately funded group studying the devastating effects of depleted uranium especially in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Regarding the missile theory, it is also backed up by retired Army Maj. Doug Rokke, a PhD educational physics and former top military expert banished from the Pentagon after the military failed to follow regulations regarding the use, clean up and medical treatment regarding the use of depleted uranium.

"When you look at the whole thing, especially the crash site void of airplane parts, the size of the hole left in the building and the fact the projectile's impact penetrated numerous concrete walls, it looks like the work of a missile," said Maj. Rokke from his Rantoul, IL home this week. "And when you look at the damage, it was obviously a missile. Also, if you look at the WTC and the disturbing flash hitting the tower right before the impact of the airplane, it also looks like a missile was used."

And to prove the government's jetliner theory is wrong, Moret said the quick actions of a friend near the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11, provide even more suspicion.

Moret recalls on the tragic morning that once she saw the jetliner strike the twin towers and then heard about the Pentagon crash, she immediately called a close friend in Alexandria VA, Dr. Janette Sherman.

Thinking radiation might be involved, she quickly asked Dr. Sherman, 77, a radiation expert and medical doctor who lived about 12 miles from the crash site, to get a Geiger counter reading.

What the pair of experts found is astonishing. What they found is not only astonishing but four years after 9/11, what's even more incredible is that their findings have been completely ignored by most everyone, including the Bush administration, the 9/11 Commission and the mainstream media, all who appear more interested in rubber stamping the official 9/11 story then getting at the real truth.

"Dr. Sherman was downwind from the Pentagon on 9/11 and her Geiger counter readings show an extremely high reading, a reading of more than eight to ten times higher than normal," said Moret, also an expert in the cause and effects of depleted uranium.

"Dr. Sherman, who is well-respected radiation expert herself, then went about contacting the proper authorities in order to try and alert emergency responders of the radiation risk at the Pentagon crash site. And we have also kept photos of the Geiger counter readings in order to verify what Dr. Sherman found 12 miles away."

After notifying the Nuclear Industrial Safety Agency (NIRS), experts from the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) and the FBI were alerted and according to Moret, radiation experts later confirmed high radiation levels at the Pentagon crash site possibly from the presence from depleted uranium or other unknown causes.

But what disturbed Moret most has been the Bush administration's lack of concern and its failure to mount a thorough investigation into what really caused the high radiation levels, saying perhaps the findings might reveal something contrary to the official story that a jetliner rammed through 12 Pentagon walls of solid concrete.

"Even if there was depleted uranium used, do you think the likes of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld would really care? These are bottom feeders that 20 or 30 years ago wouldn't have been even allowed to set foot in such high positions of power," said Moret.

"It definitely looks suspicious but of course many factors have to be considered before a conclusion is reached," said Fulk in a telephone conversation this week. "The type of Geiger counter used by Dr. Sherman needs to be looked at as well as the possibility of the true source of the radiation, whether it is depleted uranium in a missile, ballast in the airplane or within the structure of the building hit."

Even though no one can be sure, one thing positive is the Bush administration never really seriously cared about addressing the possibility of depleted uranium at the Pentagon just like it cares little about the same problem at the World Trade Center and in the war fields of Iraq and Afghanistan.

Boeng 757's and 767's (and newer) no longer use depleted uranium weights as aileron ballast weights, only earlier 737's and 747's did, and they never vaporize in crashes anyways.

Now I don't have "hundreds of coached sources" I have but a few sources and their story is the more sensible, visually confirmed, visually documented, repeatable, competent, truthful, logical, technologically probable and believable one.

You are a terrorist pilot, you have before you a building built like a giant donut, why would you aim for one edge of it?

argue all you like, I've reached my own conclusions, and no response I've encountered here has yet debunked any single one of them. The "Host of the Stars" phase of the Daniel Chapter 8 Show was most certainly and assuredly also an inside job.

argue all you like, I've reached my own conclusions, and no response I've encountered here has yet debunked any single one of them. The "Host of the Stars" phase of the Daniel Chapter 8 Show was most certainly and assuredly also an inside job.

I think to say what happened at the pentagon is clear cut and dismiss truthers who don't accept the official story there is a mistake, for the simple fact that the video evidence isn't there, they release a video telling us here it is but no plane can be seen, also to say a missile hit or whatever other theory without the evidence is also a mistake.

the simple fact that the video evidence isn't there, they release a video telling us here it is but no plane can be seen

Citgo Video

The bottom left of the four little cameras, which is looking south of citgo, catches a shadow at timecode 09:40:35.

Now okay you could say: "Two dots? That could be anything!", but CausticLogic has done an excellent analysis and shown it to be just the sort of thing we would expect to see if the plane did follow the official flight path.

Now I'm not normally one to accept computer simulations/animations out of faith, I certainly don't believe NIST's WTC7 digital fairytales, the global warming computer models, or even evolutionary algorithms, but I've seen no reason to doubt this one.

Noone clearly saw a flyover and the doubletree hotel video does not show a flyover. There is no evidence of a flyover. What people did see is a plane hitting the building... In this clip, Frank Probst even describes the moment of impact...

from the double tree vid are you saying it's convincing thee was a 757? I'm not convinced and I concur I about the fly over theory which I don't put too much stock in....too me all these pentagon theories are inconclusive.I just don't know

It was a smaller plane with a f**king missile on ah bitch confirmed by some dude that analyzed the motor . In turn explaining the deep penetration. the engine cant lie . But it doesn't really matter it was the act of making the show and getting people to THINK that's what counts . In turn getting them to watch loose change, Which bring them here sooner or later .

Igniting the fire in the minds of men.

You can clearly see the small fighter jet in that clip

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Facebook is the Barn of the sheep, time to break in, Tare some f**king wool up

And what is the purpose of that grainy useless impossibly poor Citgo copy-video, do they use that excellent video surveillance system and those hard drive/DVD RW images to protect the station from and document migrating bison herd attacks?

We're supposed to believe thats all that was left of the 4Mp CCD camera image?

Normally you can read (at least partial) license plates with those systems in full color, they record up to 9 cams fully discreet at once and you can even watch them over the web

The Pentagon is hidden behind the highway in the doubletree video. The plane, if it hit the building, would not have been visibile at all due to it's low altitude for at least 1,000 feet. However if it flew over, it may have been.

I always wonder why people always insist on tryng to prove a plane didn't hit the pentagon just coz of a few percieved damage anomalies, when a much simpler explanation for those damage anomalies that fits the witness testimony better than any other theory and potentially explains the silvery colour of the explosion and the weird smells that some witnesses describe, is the theory that Flight 77 did crash into the pentagon but the plane was rigged with explosives which were detonated a split second before impact to weaken the plane and REDUCE DAMAGE TO THE BUILDING! If they could rig three skyscrapers for demolition, they can rig a plane for demolition!

How can you say a plane hit the building when the facade of the building has ZERO DAMAGE to the upper 3/4/5 floors?

The 757 is 40-45 feet in height including the tail. The "plane" impacted the building 6 feet ABOVE GROUND, that would put the facade damage up to the 5th floor but guess what THERE's NO DAMAGE.

All simulations of the "plane" always show you the nose and fuselage entry points but NEVER does it discuss the TAILS entry point, you know why? BECAUSE THE TAIL MISSED THE BUILDING and if the tail missed the building there was no 45 feet in height plane.

Here's the ASCE report on the damage to the pentagon...

"The height of the damage to the facade of the building wasmuch less than the height of the aircraft’s tail. At approximately 45 ft, the tail height was nearly as tall as the first four floors of thebuilding. Obvious visible damage extended only over the lowesttwo floors, to approximately 25 ft above grade."

How can you say a plane hit the building when the facade of the building has ZERO DAMAGE to the upper 3/4/5 floors?

The 757 is 40-45 feet in height including the tail. The "plane" impacted the building 6 feet ABOVE GROUND, that would put the facade damage up to the 5th floor but guess what THERE's NO DAMAGE.

All simulations of the "plane" always show you the nose and fuselage entry points but NEVER does it discuss the TAILS entry point, you know why? BECAUSE THE TAIL MISSED THE BUILDING and if the tail missed the building there was no 45 feet in height plane.

Here's the ASCE report on the damage to the pentagon...

"The height of the damage to the facade of the building wasmuch less than the height of the aircraft’s tail. At approximately 45 ft, the tail height was nearly as tall as the first four floors of thebuilding. Obvious visible damage extended only over the lowesttwo floors, to approximately 25 ft above grade."

Don Mason, 62--The aircraft struck the building between the heliportfire station and the generator, its left wing slightly lowerthan its right wing. As the plane entered the building, he recalledseeing the tail of the plane. The fireball that erupted upon theplane’s impact rose above the structure. page 13http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf

Additionally, there was facade damage on both sides of the impact area,including damage as high as the fourth floor. However, in thearea of the impact of the fuselage and the tail, severe impactdamage did not extend above the third-floor slab.http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf

Heheh. I'd like to know where the Boeing 757 went too, and not just its tail piece! I'd also like to know what flew into that reinforced building, leaving very specific damage behind. So would a lot of people, apparently more as time goes on.

Never mind, they've got a bodgy report and a whole bunch of 'really' reliable 'witnesses' (Ya know - ex-military as well as contractors) to 'swear' that it was actually Flight 77 that flew into that building. Maybe they did really see something. Was it Flight 77? No, I don't think so....

Never mind, they've got a bodgy report and a whole bunch of 'really' reliable 'witnesses' (Ya know - ex-military as well as contractors)

Instead of babbling about your "beliefs" which mean nothing why don't you expose to the forum the "ex- military and contractors" from the list of witnesses that another forum member (Shure) has compiled from his own interviews with them and a short list I compiled from the day itself.

There are members of this forum who are "ex-military". Are you suggesting that anyone who ever served in the military is "in on it"? And would that include Jesse Ventura?

Point out the "contractors" and "ex military" from this list of witnesses or admit you don't know what you're talking about.......I'll even help you. Keith Wheelhouse was in the military years before, but on the day of 9-11 he was burying a relative in Arlington Cemetery. Are you claiming he is "in on it"? Is his dead relative "in on it" too? Do you think making outrageous and unfounded allegations against ordinary working class Americans is helpful? Are your silly personal beliefs and theories that important to you?

There are members of this forum who are "ex-military". Are you suggesting that anyone who ever served in the military is "in on it"? And would that include Jesse Ventura?

There are probably members of this forum below who are ex-military too.http://pilotsfor911truth.org/index.htmlFrom what I can see, they don't think that a 757 crashed into the pentagon. But they are more likely to be using evidence, rather than what a few 'selected witnesses' have to say. Probably more likely to have access to the truth by those means.

That's as good as it's going to get. This happened it broad daylight in front of lots of people. A total of 0 people said they thought it was a missile. Everyone said it was a plane, and almost all of them said it was a passenger jet, several saying an American Airlines passenger jet. A missile could not knock over lamp poles. There is no reason to shoot a missile when the planes themselves were being used as missiles. If we want to ignore the c 130 pilot, and every witness at the scene and the physical evidence I suppose we can but I don't know why anyone would take us seriously if we did.

Here's the missile:

Missile now appears on right edge in the advanced right cam | delayed left cam shows second detonation flash

it was fired by one of the F16's that was holding station on a Stand By order from Cheney circling Andrews AFB awaiting the silvery-painted Green imitation AA737 -500 military Xe aircraft that came in from Beckley W Va that left the smallish 2.3 kiloton hole (as opposed to a 6 kiloton blast) in the hardened back-lower outer Pentagon wall and only did a bit of damage to E Ring. The missile that hit the DIA and NCO IP center in the C Ring afterwards made a hole out of which no fuel came out, since it had already been all burnt off behind concrete hallway walls out in D and E rings.

Cheney's military liaison was alarmed that the traitorous VP wouldn't order an interception as the bandit was approaching to shoot it sooner, the missile was programmed to follow it in as it was also a TERCOM piloted drone with some bodies from Beckley stuffed on board for looks.

This is the final Punch Out hole made (from pillar M) by the CALCM AUP "two DU-hardbacked, three-warhead MWS penetrator" missile 9 seconds after the small 2.1 kiloton Boeing 737 crash into a kevlar and steel lined bombproof 220 ft deep concrete building with block/tile hallways )

Since the missile struck 9 seconds later there are absolutely no fuel, no bodies no airplane parts and only one urinal and a garbage can there, early, while the front and upper floors of the place are still on fire and it was visibly still smoking:http://911research.wtc7.net/talks/noplane/docs/punchout_rv.jpg

This is what a 5.8 - 6 kiloton Boeing 757 crash into a 220 ft deep building looks like:

Notice any difference? Where's the fuel? Anything the plane brought there, the fuel would have followed. The plane had nothing to do with this hole, it was blown-out later after the fuel was all gone.

The fake AA Green Military 737 type Airplane:

This was among the silvery coated green painted fake AA airplane parts left at the pentagon:

Just a minor update on the fake silvery painted Green Airplane's chosen and no doubt appropriate fake AA model type decal sizes and application. This is a "C" from the phony silvery-painted Green military aircraft:

These are genuine, generic, model-specific AA 737 and AA 757 graphic layouts. On all AA 757s the logo is (must be) uniquely squeezed forward and sitting directly upon the blue window line. There is a large silvery-painted band below this "C" decal. Camel riders with box cutters switched airplanes like this?

So, it took it only 35 minutes (including takeoff) to reach the farthest noted far western point at a normal, stately pace, yet it takes (supposedly the same now hijacked, still airborne airplane) another whole 47 minutes, "out in Virginia, and approaching at a high rate of speed" to get back?

When we finally accept the obvious fact that, based on all the evidence AA Flight 77 was forced down and swapped with the "Silvery" Green Painted Drone Mystery Airplane (a military T-43 type Boeing of the 737 class or more like a newer, probably black ops private 737-500 with TERCOM pilot) we have to admit to ourselves that much of what we think we knew about the flight is likely corrupted, falsified, fabricated or otherwise incorrect. The FAA, NEADS, FBI and NTSB all appear to be in on it (more or less) so there's no point in worrying about complying with their lies too much. Due to this we have to piece together what we know and can regard as reliable with what we must assume is the only explanation that satisfies the largest body of facts that do not appear to be tainted. If Flight 77 was taken down by sabotage and deception then only a few possibilities exist that can satisfy all the requirements.

Thus let me predicate this examination of the likelihood that AA 77 could have easily been "switched" in the exact words that the FAA's 'Quality Assurance" folks were forced to use to pretend that it hadn't been during the 10-30 minutes it was mysteriously completely "lost" to ATC over West VirginiaCould Flight 77 have been grounded and switched during the western portion of its flight? Where could a secondary missile easily have originated from? Firstly, let us make a list of reasonable assumptions that agree with the basic evidence:

Because we know we had a Green Airplane that was and could not be any American Airlines aircraft crash into the Pentagon there is no reason to assume that either Hani Hanjour nor the AA Captain Chik Burlingame were in control of it

Since we know from firefighter and rescue workers at the scene that most of the air crew and at least one or two passenger bodies were clearly among the wreckage under E Ring collapse and near it among other wreckage, we must assume that at least 8 or 9, most likely dead already, passengers were aboard the flight to leave some bodies in the main body of wreckage to make it "look good". This would necessitate a quick kill and ground transfer of bodies between the two aircraft.

We must assume from the conflicting black box recovery stories, the green airplane wreckage and the confounding and clearly inconsistent with any AA 757 typical flight data released afterwards that all of it's contents are false or manufactured or from a completely different military version of a 737 class Boeing aircraft. In order to deal with the substitution question however it is unnecessary to consider the final approach controversies and/or he TERCOM typical final attack-drone flightpath characteristics or behaviors. Therefore we are only dealing with the "lost" portions of the flightpath

We have no reason to assume that the AA pilot (Burlingame) or crew were "in on" any conspiracy or that there wasn't some sort of a hijacking on board though this flight was the least likely to have been easily captured by "Arab Hijackers". In view of the need for the substitution it seems clear that we must assume armed Air Marshals or (even more likely) DIA Pentagon Black Ops commandos subdued both Hani Hanjour's pals, passengers and the crew and (by one means or another) subsequently forced AA Flight 77 down somewhere near it's last known waypoint in radio silence

Due to all this trouble it is reasonable to assume that a fallback group of Air Force escorts was also airborne nearby (or also present, as we shall see) to ensure nothing went awry with the scheme, and to ensure compliance with the master plan, though they may well have been "in the dark" about their true purpose. (easily compartmentalized)

Although later artsy FAA bureaucratic tap dancers unofficially purport to claim it was (only by means of much later so called artfully crafted "reconstructions") in some way only lost a few minutes (in clear high altitude view of all radar systems) and was "likely re-acquired" in some magical secret manner just 9 minutes later and yet not displayed to any Air Traffic Control radar system, it never in fact reappeared on any ATC console anywhere as either an identified nor unidentified target for nearly a half an hour. They released dodgy-worded techno-nerdy (with no documentation) self-contradictory "explanations" for what they try to claim was a 'glitch" but thus is sheer poppycock intended to hide it's low altitude loss. The official explanation claims that the radars simply erased it from all screens when it came back up because it had no transponder, which is nonsense, and that the radars were tracking it but just "keeping it secret" which is another bit of technical nonsense. Things usually only "go wrong" when they are wrong, radar systems, like TV cameras, make sure you see visible targets regardless of what they are or aren't, it does not independently arrive at decisions to hide them.

Since the Flight Data Recorder data is from an airplane that could not be an American Airlines jet nor from one of their 757's and it clearly has been falsified we need not adhere to the flight paths it suggests and can take the witnesses as being more honest and accurate

If anyone believes this Memorandum_AAL77_Flight_Path_Information.pdf I have at least, "approximately" 5 bridges in Mahahattan to sell you. All it says is that when the target disappeared from all radars at Point A that might have happened to be close enough to a beacon only at Higby WV that it may be likely that the target later moved into the range of a radar at Point B at Lynch WV during the period it was missing if one would have expected it to have done so, not that there was any actual tertiary mystery "recording" indicating it or what it had done. It makes no account for the velocities nor changes of acceleration not seen that might have made the supposition true or false. it is predicated upon the following disclaimer "This reconstruction is an approximation and is not intended to give the exact flight path." Hence it is merely assumption not a third 'hidden "recording" of any radar-collected data that was "lost" and then "found".

In order to commandeer the plane and override any genuine hijacking a fake (or real compartmentalized) air marshal, FBI agent or other armed operative may have been put aboard. Subduing the occupants could easily be accomplished by sabotaging the halon cargo fire extinguishers with a toxic gas triggered by a fire bomb or remote control trip device once the flight had been forced down and landed. Similarly the plane's radios could also have been surreptitiously sabotaged or jammed during the takedown.

It is also likely that any of the three Langley F16's could also have been used to force the plane down to a nearby, available and very 'quiet" and easily commandeered secluded airfield with a 5,000 ft runway. The three F8's were well within easy and effortless range of the southern return path throughout the entire period of the return and turn-around leg of the flight.

When transportation Secretary Norm Mineta witnesses the "Does the order still stand" conversations with the Vice President's military attache there is no reason to assume it was necessarily a "Stand Down" order that he was questioning! He could very well have (more likely have) been questioning a remaining and very puzzling belated "Shoot Down" order to a waiting F16! That order could have stationed the plane out over Andrews AFB to await the arrival and completion of the final turn of the drone and fire at it far too late to bring it down. It could have been a very puzzling and troubling order that was deliberately fashioned to likely cause the missile to follow the aircraft too late, and therefore certainly risk firing that missile, "after it", into any ground target or the Pentagon itself were it the target of the aircraft at that general location!

If all three of these planes land at Andrews AFB less than four minutes later, they were all right there! And there was also the Boeing E-4 Advanced Airborne Command Post (brought in from Omaha, Nebraska also present for the ceremonies) over Washington supervising all these maneuvers.

From all the available primary and secondary FAA radar information the flight of AA 77 ends at the north eastern Kentucky - Ohio border at a town called Franklin Furnace near to Huntington WV at which point it begins a southeast bound U turn heading back east. Not only does its transponder go out but at 8:57 AM it disappears from all primary and secondary radar contact with Indianapolis ATC. Like the Air Traffic Controllers properly did, we must also assume it went down into the radar 'grass" somewhere nearby.

8:46 AM Three F16 jets out of Andrews AFB are supposedly flying an armed air-to-ground bombing joyride 'mission' on a range in North Carolina, 207 miles from DC. 26-31 minutes after alarm, NORAD or NEADS fail to contact them, instead, they "finish practice" and eventually return to Andrews! They were 19 mins from NYC, 10 mins from DC, but finally just apparently landed at Andrews around 9:40 AM!

They were not only in PERFECT interception range to force down Flight 77 at Beckley WV (exactly the same 207 nm distance) but also it is certain that they were armed with "air to ground" CALCM AUP penetrator (and likely air to air) missiles. Air to ground bombing exercises are extremely rare anywhere in eastern Continental US. Subsequently they land at Langley within 3 minutes of completion of the Pentagon Bombing Mission after the dummy TERCOM guided Blackwater 737 class Silvery painted fake AA Green Airplane makes the small 2 kiloton hole in E Ring. They are the most suspect source for the missile that was needed to hit the NOC IP and DIA Operation centers and punch the evidence-planting hole out back.

Here I have drawn the thin yellow 207 nm length line of the given range of the three airborne F16's on "ground target range exercises" all that morning that landed after the second Pentagon attack, and marked all 5 of the 6,000' to 7,000' runways in the region. I also marked 2 more nearby that are too short to land a 757 at, Big Sandy and Mercer.

This leaves in, order of relative positions, Walker Long-Tri State, Yeager, Beckley, and Greenbrier. Shenandoah Valley is too far east. Though there are many other 3,000' private fields in the area they cannot land a 757.

Notes: Walker Long Field Tri-State Airport also known as Milton J. Ferguson Field, is a public airport located just south of Ceredo, West Virginia, three miles (5 km) south of the central business district (CBD) of Huntington, West Virginia. It serves the nearby cities of Huntington, Ashland, Kentucky, and Ironton, Ohio. The airport has two runways, one at 7,017 feet, the other at 3,007 feet. It has heavy use for general aviation, is also serviced by three commercial airlines.

Notes: Charleston, Very Busy 12 airlines home to nine C-130 Hercules aircraft of the Air National Guard's 130th Airlift Wing (130 AW), an Air Mobility Command (AMC) unit of the West Virginia Air National Guard.

Notes: Beckley Raleigh County Memorial Airport Beckley WV 2% military ("United"-(Colgan)) Max. 27 flights/day (2010) Airport (capitalization) and service is heavily subsidized by the Essential Air Service (EAS) program. In 2006, the airport has the dubious honor of being the least busy airport in America. No Control Tower operations, freight and small regional flights only. Remote rural location, 1 road.

Just a bit more insight into curiosities of this remote and isolated largely unsupervised BKW airport itself and the timeframe of it's wind down and closure for federally funded "airport repaving" at Raleigh County Memorial Beckley Airport (BKW) within the 2001 timeframe:

First, in late 2000, we have the curious case of an unfortunate cargo pilot who ran his car off the runway one night on the way home and was missing for two whole weeks after last landing and leaving his cargo flight one night at this backwoods airport. His car and body were discovered only by accident by cops in a helicopter looking for marijuana:MISSING BEACH PILOT FOUND DEAD IN CAR OFF W.VA. AIRPORT RUNWAY.

Another article from June 28th 2001, announces the "tentative award of a one-bid contract to repave the runway" to a local contractor and tenant of the airport which must have occurred thereafter in the same timeframe of just after 9/11 (2-3 more months to officially finalize and fund the deal and before cover up work actually began would certainly not out of the ordinary). This casts further light on the other "Beckley airport has benefited immensely in recent years from other federal funding for physical improvements, including an enhanced runway and restructuring that raised the weight-bearing capacity to handle larger airplanes" reference in the 2007 article.

Quote from: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=wzhDAAAAIBAJ&sjid=LK0MAAAAIBAJ&pg=5533,4138810&dq=beckleyJune 28 2001 Beckley (AP) -- West Virginia Paving Inc. has been awarded a nearly $3 million tentative contract to replace an aging runway at Raleigh County Memorial Airport. The Raleigh County Airport Authority made the decision Wednesday. West Virginia Paving, an airport tenant, was the lone bidder for the job of improving the 6,750-foot runway which is about 25 years old. "We have to go through the formality of getting a signed contract, but as far as we are concerned, it has been awarded" Airport Manager Tom Cochran said.

Apparently these Federal Earmarks were appropriated in June for this rather unusual fall repaving deal..

Not only is this little 17,000 pop. podunk town of Beckley W Va the recipient of curiously much federal RNC (and DNC) largess for the support and maintenance of the least used airport in America, a remarked upon unusually high priority of Bush/Cheney with only 5 electoral votes in 2000 and was it the recipient of an unusual first-ever presidential visit in the 2004 election, it was also selected to host the Republican Convention for West Virginia in 2004, and in yet another curious turn of administration events, it's airport was also the site of a first-ever sitting Vice Presidential inspection and visit (for a hundred chosen local spectators in Marine 1) in 2004:

BEAVER - Flanked by a pair of shiny triple-axle coal trucks, Vice President Dick Cheney reminded supporters of the $447 million the Bush administration has budgeted this year for "clean coal technology."

"We will keep using West Virginia coal," Cheney said Monday during a half-hour stop at a hanger near the Raleigh County Memorial Airport. "Coal is essential to our energy independence and our economic future."

The pledge - almost a mantra during Bush-Cheney campaign visits to the nation's No. 2 coal producer - was met by the crowd of several hundred with cheers of "Friends of Coal," an industry group and a rally sponsor.

But Cheney earned his loudest and longest …

In 2008, however a much redder-faced Darth Cheney was also noted to have later faced a firestorm of criticism over this flippant appraisal and disparaging assessment of (most likely the utility of) Raleigh County's local "Mayberry-like" citizenry:

03/03/11 - (PilotsFor911Truth.org) When Pilots For 9/11 Truth was founded in the late summer of 2006, the objective was to find evidence supporting what we have been told by the 9/11 Commission as many theories were rumored that elements within the US Government might have had something to do with 9/11. Co-Founder Rob Balsamo explains how he was puzzled and motivated to pursue further research into the events of 9/11 in his citation at PatriotsQuestion911.com, which lead to the formation of Pilots For 9/11 Truth. More than four years of solid research through Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) requests, numerous interviews and expert analysis has revealed no hard evidence supporting or linking to -- and in many instances factually conflicting with -- conclusions made by the 9/11 Commission. Now there is overwhelming evidence which suggests the data that is being provided to the public through the FOIA, is not from an aircraft which has been operated by American Airlines.

Pilots For 9/11 Truth analysis of data being provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has revealed the data does not support an impact with the Pentagon, exceeds the capabilities of a standard 757/767 by a wide margin, while demonstrating control issues for an "inexperienced pilot" (See 9/11: Attack On The Pentagon, 9/11: World Trade Center Attack, and Flight Of American 77). The data itself does not support what we have been told by the 9/11 Commission. When contacted, the NTSB and the FBI refused to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth went on to research if there was any evidence linking the data to N644AA (the aircraft described as "Flight 77"), once again, there is no evidence to support the government version of events(1). Research was also performed to determine if there was any evidence whatsoever linking the limited number of parts found at the Pentagon, to N644AA(2). In an unprecedented turn of events, the parts were never verified by any government agency for any of the four aircraft reported to have been used on 9/11. In all instances, there hasn't been any evidence provided by government agencies to support what we have been told by the 9/11 Commission. Further analysis reveals evidence demonstrating the data provided was not generated by an American Airlines airplane in the case of the attack on the Pentagon.

DATA FRAME LAYOUT

Pilots For 9/11 Truth have been provided several files through the FOIA. One file in particular, a raw Flight Data Recorder file which is described as a direct download from the FDR, contains binary code which needs to be decoded for a proper readout in a spreadsheet such as Excel. In order to decode such data, a Data Frame Layout is required. Derived from a generic Boeing Data Frame Layout, American Airlines provided it's own custom made Data Frame Layout which was designed for decoding data from aircraft within the American Airlines fleet, based on airline needs exclusive to American Airlines (AAL). The custom made AAL Data Frame Layout was unable to decode the data in full, and in some instances, neither the AAL Data Frame Layoyut nor the generic Boeing Data Frame Layout were able to be utilized in decoding the data(3). Why would American Airlines design their own custom Data Frame Layout if it cannot decode data from their aircraft? Or perhaps the data being provided is not from an American Airlines jet?

FLIGHT DECK DOOR

Pilots For 9/11 Truth also found, according to the data, there is no evidence suggesting a "Hijack" had occurred. A Flight Deck Door parameter shows the door closed for the entire flight. No evidence has been provided thus far which shows the Flight Deck Door open in order to facilitate a "Hijack".(4)

LATITUDE/LONGITUDE

Further evidence that the data is not from an American Airlines jet nor American Airlines Flight 77, comes in the form of Latitude and Longitude (Lat/Long) coordinates in the data itself. When plotted, the Lat/Long coordinates are more than 3,000 feet in error at time of departure from Washington Dulles International Airport (IAD). According to American Airlines 757/767 Operating Manual, along with several American Airlines 757/767 Captains, the navigational instruments (known as an IRS or Inertial Reference System), is aligned at the gate, prior to all flights(5). If such an error is observed in an American Airlines airplane, the aircraft is grounded until fixed. It would never leave the gate. If such an error was encountered during taxi to the runway, the Captain would have had to return to the gate until it was fixed.(6)

DEPARTURE GATE AND FULL ALIGNMENT

According to official reports and audio provided by government agencies, American Airlines Flight 77 departed from Gate D26 at IAD(7). However, when the Lat/Long data is adjusted for the 3,000+ foot offset, the data shows a departure from a gate other than D26(. American Airlines requires a full alignment (as opposed to a "fast alignment") prior to every flight with the pilots physically inputting the Lat/Long coordinates of the gate, provided by navigational charts, into their navigational system. The aircraft should have never left the gate with such a large error within it's navigational system. Although some aircraft have the ability to update it's position in flight, an "update" is very different from an alignment. Any "updates" in flight will not be accurate if the initial alignment was not achieved at the gate. It is interesting to note that Military Aircraft are capable of in flight alignment of an Inertial Navigation System.

AUTO-ALIGNMENT AND GPS

Military aircraft were equipped with GPS (Global Positioning Systems) long before GPS was offered for Commercial use. When equipped, they can auto-align the Inertial Reference System. N644AA (American Airlines Flight 77) was not equipped with a GPS. However, when one looks through the data, it shows a GPS as "OPERational"(12) and an airborne auto-alignment. How can a GPS be "OPER" if the data is reported to come from an aircraft which doesn't have a GPS? The data shows that the Lat/Long plots auto-aligned with Radar plots in flight after departure(9). American Airlines aircraft do not have the capability of in flight alignment nor would such an aircraft depart with such a large error and an IRS as it's primary source for navigation. It is impossible for an IRS equipped American Airlines jet to give accurate position information if the system was not aligned at the gate. The aircraft needs to be stationary for proper alignment or else the navigational device will have large errors and could perhaps be fatal(10). According to American Airlines 757/767 Captain Ralph Kolstad who has actual flight time in N644AA, if the Inertial Reference System (IRS) is lost in flight (or shows large errors), an emergency has to be declared. The aircraft is required to sit stationary for more than 10 minutes in order obtain a full alignment of the Inertial Reference System prior to every flight, according to and as required by American Airlines 757/767 Operating Manual(11). How can an auto-align occur airborne if American Airlines aircraft do not have this capability nor a GPS? This is more evidence demonstrating the data did not come from an American Airlines jet.

CONCLUSION

The data does not support an impact with the Pentagon, does not support a departure from the gate claimed by official reports, if the data was in fact generated by an actual aircraft, it was generated by one which is more advanced than N644AA capability in both avionics (instruments) and performance. Furthermore, the data is not able to be decoded in full by a custom data frame layout made by American Airlines exclusively for their aircraft.

The evidence is overwhelming. The data did not come from an American Airlines Jet. Pilots For 9/11 Truth are asked regularly, "If Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, then where did it go?" That is a GREAT question! Pilots For 9/11 Truth recommend demanding answers in order to obtain the data from the aircraft which is claimed to have departed gate D26 at Washington Dulles on the morning of September 11, 2001 and most importantly corresponds through Lat/Long plots to a departure from Gate D26. From there, it can be tracked to where it went! Unfortunately, subpoena power will perhaps be needed to get such information and data, as FOIA requests have been exhausted and the government agencies who have responded to such requests refuse further comment. "We have fulfilled our request. You get what you get, the data we gave you doesn't support our findings? No comment! " has proven to be the case. Lawsuits have been filed by victims of 9/11, particularly one by April Gallop, a survivor from the Pentagon. Pilots For 9/11 Truth have signed an affidavit in support of Ms Gallop along with providing evidence for the case. Now all that is needed is a fair and just Judge willing to look at the evidence before throwing out the case(14).

Almost Ten years has elapsed since the events of September 11, 2001. There has been no hard evidence linking the claims made by the 9/11 Commission to their conclusions. Even the 9/11 Commission admits they have been lied to and "Set up to fail"(13). Write your Congress, write your Senators, inform them the data being provided by government agencies through the Freedom Of Information Act does not support the 9/11 Commission findings, show them the overwhelming evidence that the data did not come from an American Airlines jet.

Founded in August 2006, Pilots For 9/11 Truth is a growing organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) for the Pentagon Attack, the events in Shanksville, PA and the World Trade Center Attack. The data does not support the government story. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time. However, there is a growing mountain of conflicting information and data in which government agencies and officials refuse to acknowledge. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

AA 737AA 757(No GREEN) All AA airplanes are bare polished aluminum only and have zero paint whatsoever, it is their trademark, Boeing and everyone else makes them for them in this unique way (no external primer ONLY internal yellowy lime green rubberized sealant).

A 737 is a 27% smaller plane but you put a little more white paint (over the factory green) near "the AA-white" composite plastic wing faring and at any airborne distance (no frame of reference) you could never tell the difference unless it went by a few hundred feet away at eye level where you could count the windows. Witnesses who saw it that way mostly all claimed it seemed/appeared to be, a smaller plane.

It's actually hard to tell the difference. (and would be harder still with some minor cosmetic paint-camouflaging) The Pentagon guardhouse camera shows us a much shorter plane in relation to the tail size (which includes the angular width loss). Every study I have seen of the plane hiding behind the ticket dispenser concludes that a full half or more of nose should be well visible if it were 757-length and showing that much tail-width.

A finished American Airlines Boeing jet body leaving manufacture awaiting attachment of wings and engines at Renton final assembly plant:

Other people's Boeings:

As I explained above a 757 has two front doors and a higher blue window line, this the "AMERICAN" decals only fit between the two front doors right upon the blue line.

Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point and there was this huge piece of something—I mean it was big, it looked like a piece of an engine or something—in the road. And there was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person, with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it… I got off an off-ramp beside the Pentagon and parked my car in the grass and started taking pictures. The whole time I was taking pictures it was so detailed. I could [see] this huge piece of a wheel on fire. Terronez, Tony

Quote

“[I saw] what looked like white confetti raining down everywhere.” He said it soon became apparent “that the ‘confetti’ was little bits of airplane, falling down after being flung high into the bright, blue sky." Ragland, Clyde

Silvery scratched-off paint is scorched brown also giving a"Tiger Striped" (above in distance) look to these crushed and destoyed parts later seen inside C Ring where the small 737's wreckage was all completely stopped (just past the collapse area around pillars F-G).

The TWO PENTAGON STRIKES ON 9/11

Here is the witness who saw what the Judicial Watch Videos below also confirm beyond any shadow of a doubt: Two Strikes on the Pentagon:

Here, (Pentagon crime scene) we have the strongest and easiest case of US involvement and investigative fraud to investigate and to prove.

The things with the spools, plane hole height and wing width-size, damage depth and lack of fuel-penetration, witness observations, terrain-hugging target approach, lamp poles and High-G flight behavior are 100% indicative of a robotic TERCOM guidance system adapted to a smaller, more powerfully maneuverable 737 -500+ THAT WAS WELL PROGRAMMED BUT UNAWARE OF IT'S OWN CRAFT'S WIDTH.

It really is terribly obvious that this silvery-painted "green plane" was no American Airlines aircraft, and no human piloted it.

Even if one out of 10 pilots (with practice) could more or less accurately 'aim' a 6g turn like that on a couch (no way of simulating the low terrain hug approach) there is no way to simulate MOVING g forces in a STATIONARY simulator. A simulator merely creates a "temporary thrust-swing-toss" impression of g-force change-initiation, it doesn't spin around the room to constantly "stick you to a wall" with the actual, steady, descending rotary g-forces your arms and fingers on the controls would be fighting.

No human pilot would risk hitting those lamp poles, could have lost an engine or wing and cart-wheeled or flat-spun right out-over into Rumsfeld's well-known office or across the other parking lot into the river

The standard TERCOM guidance control (piloting) system is designed to behave in exactly this extreme way, single engine cruise missiles and smart bombs with practically no wings/controls are "flown" by it like this all the time. All they needed to do is put this cruise missile guidance pilot into the nose of the fake AA 737 drone and hook up a flight control output-interface. It uses radar, thermal/night, GPS, compass, RPY and altimeter data referenced to a detailed, preloaded 3D terrain-target map to operate flight controls.

Though terrain data might show the light pole is there it would only avoid it if it was in it's self-images 'default' width-path. It was obviously just 'thinking' (default width-clearance assumption) it was narrower than an airliner.

Only trained Top Gun class naval aviators and AF fighter pilots ever train to use and execute High G maneuvers, you need to learn to do it in an aircraft wearing a G suit. Civil aviators (excluding stunt pilots) don't ever fly aircraft that way save in the most extreme of emergencies and don't train to "miss mountains at the last minute" in any flight school. They're trained to avoid and evade mountains and other aircraft early under all conditions.

TERCOM is specifically designed to do these sorts of super-human very high risk "radically-evasive", "radically-tight" and "hide in the grass" maneuvers deliberately, all the time.

Earlier in here I posted a comparative analysis of the two Judicial Watch videos that I based on an Italian TV youtube version of them, that it turns out, after a more thorough and careful investigation to be somewhat inaccurate, This is a new study based on the two videos compared side by side, frame by frame backwards from the moment after the last event where they are perfectly in sync thereafter.

I have come to two new conclusions:

Arcoiris.tv confused, lost count, repeated or lost a frame in their version of the video comparison

There are no obviously-timed missing nor (necessarily) obviously deleted frames, though fractions of timings (different parts of seconds) appeared to have been played with.

But the main conclusions supporting the green airplane and two strikes are still the same and even more supporting evidence is confirmed!

Analysis:

more or less identical pre-crash frames - nothing of interest - 12 more to goSmoke from & tail fin of the silvery painted green plane is visible | just a nose on the right cam, it remains always a bit advanced Aircraft collision, note the shade in left camera lens either due to the tree/Heliport tower/fire truck garage or it seeing things later (delayed slightly)Note smaller immediate airborne blast debris (right cam bit advanced)Note larger and heavier airborn debris now, as the front of the aircraft breaks up.Here, something is wrong, the left cam is now advanced and right one delayed frames must be goneor the timings have been switched to hide a much larger piece of debris flying out into the roadNote much larger and heavier airborn debris still, now thrown far out to road as the remainder of aircraft breaks upRight camera is suddenly now clearly the delayed one!Now much lighter stuff is still up in the air (the right cam is delayed now)Lighter debris flung high and far begins to drop into the (now advanced again?) right hand camera foregroundLighter debris flung high and far now visibly dropping into the foreground on both camsRemaining lightweight debris flung high and far is mostly all dropped into the foreground in both camsMissile now appears on right edge in the advanced right cam | delayed left cam shows second detonation flash NOTE new, heavy metal blast wreckage blown in front of right cam also visible in left cam on right side from second blast.heavy metal blast wreckage blown in front of right cam now laying on lawn at right by guardrail

Nothing more much to see, all the remaining frames are synched and nondescript.

So the video shows there was a second much brighter blast caused by a second missile type of airborne device that caused a second powerful dispersal of heavy debris much like the first "opening" blast of a (MWS) three warhead-stage DU hardbacked, AUP Penetrator missile detonating outside (to open) it's BROACH Target in view of the cameras.

This second blast (and two more inside milliseconds later) took place 8 seconds later.

The Green Airplane was undoubtedly a smaller aircraft like a 737-500 classic that looked much like a 757 but only did 2 kiloton damage.

The missile did the NOC and Punch Out hole afterwards, which along with the brick/tile hallway walls inside the structure also completely explains the no fuel fire out back in the AE Drive area there under C ring.

A 757 at 6 kilotons would have taken out both D and E ring completely.

The green aircraft cowling they covered up with the blue tarp and hauled in from the roadway was a dead giveaway that it could not be an American Airlines aircraft.

The video frames were selectively thinned (to one a second) to hide the crime and other videos are still being hidden for that reason

When you read the "advanced or delayed" comments in my analysis of bear in mind that the original normal, universal NTSC (North American standard) video frame rate the FBI Mafiosi had to toy with is 30 "interlaced" frames every second. Due to paired-frame-shared "interlacing", this gives them an absolute maximum of 15 completely different "slides" within every second to play with. The edited and altered propaganda "slide shows" they released to Judicial Watch were deliberately thinned down to only a very jerky one "slide"-frame for every second.

This means the FBI Mafia had (and still have a maximum of) 14 other "slides" of video to choose from, for every second of propaganda "slide show" that they finally, reluctantly released. Thus we see the apparent timing synchronization of things in view in each slide of each "slide show" changing, depending upon which important frames the FBI liars were pick-and-choosing to hide within each second of slide show. But having to release two at once poses another problem for the liars.

With two side by side cameras, in order to keep pace with the ever-changing "progressive-swirling-fingerprint" shapes of the smoke cloud in each successive second in both slide shows, the liars had to pick at least one frame out of the next 15 within a steadily (near-7.5) progressive range of the next 5-10 slides (leaving them only 5-6 to choose from) and this is why they couldn't hide the missile in the wider unobstructed view of the right ticket dispenser camera, and chose the most-blinding flash-slide in the other.

Deleting both whole seconds would not work because the smoke would obviously and suddenly "jerk" into a whole new shape, instead of naturally "swirling".

Conclusions

First, since it is a silvery-painted Green Airplane it cannot have ever belonged to American Airlines. It is therefore definitely not AA Flight 77 so the point is mostly-moot to begin with. But let's explain all the other reasons why it wouldn't be.(Green Airplane topic already covered below)

Second, since the WTC strike/demolition was to be totally destructive and complete, religious-fascist madmen could be entrusted to perform the 1st phase of their Daniel Chapter 8 Show. But the Constantinian fascist's play-bible slavery manuals strictly required that only "some' (auditors and intelligence detective service-persons) of the "host of the stars" be struck down in phase 2 by their pet "He-Goat's" 3rd horn. (don't discount for a moment that this isn't how the Bush, Cheney, Rove and Shelton "Vulcans" convinced many mindlessly enslaved idiots to go along with them)

Had they permitted an incapable idiot like Hani Hanjour (surely unable to overpower a Navy vet let alone fly any plane) to hit the Pentagon with the real aircraft, Rumsfeld's office on the obviously sunny preferred front "river side" of the building with the perfect view of the river, Yacht Club marina and Washington Monument that the terrorists had 3 years of training to figure out (unchanged SecDef office location since 1943) would have looked worse than this:

Reinforced concrete structure.747, 200mph, no fuel, sideways. (later)

<- Fires almost out, next day, lots of plane left

No - letting a moron do it could have hurt Rumsfeld! Using a 757 still full of 10,000+ gallons of fuel would have created far more serious damage and probably would have missed the Chief of Naval Operations Intelligence Plot (CNO-IP), DIA and Resource Services Washington auditors! Any terrorist would hit the front offices instead of swinging around to the newly reinforced back basement no matter what he promised you he'd do or you told him to do.

They are control freaks and they needed precision pin-point attack that would look convincing. A smaller, (737) near empty AA disguised plane followed by a modest yet satisfyingly destructive deeper pinpoint penetrator missile would do the job perfectly and allow them AE Drive access in through the back "Punch Out" way to start planting more evidence immediately. The AUP penetrator missile could be fired from hundreds of miles away and even "shadow" the fake jet a few (9) seconds behind it (we have visual proof of this from the Judicial Watch videos, aside from witness testimony)National Geographic Witness D.C. 9/11http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIfwsjF8X5U&feature=player_detailpage#t=1877sThird, there is the matter of the Flight Data Recorder and the plane's loyal ex-military Captain, Charles Burlingame

The doctored FDR dataset released by the FBI Mafia omitted to edit the cockpit door signal record which shows the cockpit door of the plane it was attached to never opened once during the entire flight. A door-closed landing and shutdown would not update that, it only records during run, taxi and flight. This means that gassing the passengers and crew on a tarmac without even boarding it is child's play. They may have even installed a poison gas instead of halon and a remote trigger to do so.

All they needed was a 'trusted, loyal' pilot they could both fool and get to bring the plane in to another location for them.

I agree with them but fear he was easily duped.

- He was a 1971 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy and an honor graduate of the Navy "Top Gun" school, in Miramar, California. - He flew F-4 Phantoms for the Navy and served aboard the USS Saratoga. - He he retired from active duty to fly for AA in 1979 - He continued military service as a reserve officer retiring at the rank of Captain in 1996. - He was furloughed in 1980 and went to work in the Washington office of Lockheed Aerospace.

According to classmate Marks, Chic was well thought of at Lockheed -- to the point that even after his recall to American in 1984 he stayed on as a consultant with Lockheed until 1987. It was alleged he actually participated in a 9/11 type airplane Pentagon Attack drill during that last year ('96).

He was a loyal, excellent, highly responsible pilot who just so happened to work at the Pentagon for a few years as a reservist, nothing odd about that at all, but little doubt that after the '93 WTC bombing and the drills he had participated in, he could have easily been recruited (instructed confidentially) to bring his flight into a secret airfield on false intelligence "he was carrying a potential hijacker". Far more likely than him being overpowered by any skinny little pipsqeak who couldn't even fly.It's no stretch at all to reason out why the truth is stranger than the buffet of lies we got handed.

Interesting article agentbluescreen. For the most part, I've been an adherent of CIT and Pilots for 9/11 Truth 'no plane crash' theory, but I found your analysis of what actually happened to flight 77 to be quite interesting. I definitely noted some of the Pilots for 9/11 Truth material that your referenced; I'd skimmed through it before but went over it in more detail with your post.

Recently released damage inspection video shows clearly that there was no 757 in the Pentagon on 9/11. Check Youtube under "Pentagon Damage Video". It really does not matter what anyone says they saw, there must be a plane (wreck) inside. The problem is that no video of the inside was allowed to the public for more than 11 years, thanks to our secret police (FBI). Watch the video and you will see why. This means that what the government said a complete lie. War and strife, engendering hatred from the targets of our revenge, were the immediate goals.They lied to the people and covered up the crime of the real culprits. The War on Terror is a cruel hoax. There were no 19 hijackers.Look out all you sheeple, they will come for you soon after they come for the ones that know the truth! Fight back while there is still time.

Witnesses do not mean squat at the Pentagon. People can say anything, especially when they are directed to do so. Look at the Pentagon Damage Video I posted. There is zero evidence of a plane crash inside. No plane inside means Game Over for the Cover-Up. We have evidence here that will stand up in court and convict people. It makes all the other evidence is stronger. Get off your lazy brains. We may not have much time.

There were 4 planes. One hit the south tower one hit the north tower one went down in shanksville, but the other didn't hit the pentagon even though every witness says it did and the clean up crews agreed and there were plane parts from a passenger jet. What is the mystery here?

There is no way that the most protected building in the US had no better view of the plane hitting the building. The mystery? How in the hell did ANYTHING hit the Pentegon after 2 planes already hit the towers? That is a mystery! How there is no actual video evidence of plane wreckage immediately after, seats, luggage, etc. sure, they claim it was there and they saw it, but I think the American people are entitled to see what caused us to loose so many freedoms and enter an endless war.

Do any of you people think that it is possible that not one person (not a store camera) was able to get ANY footage of a plane, missle, etc hitting the Pentegon? How is that possible? Do you think that there is someone out there (a civilian) that has footage of what actually happened? I know the general response will be "they were paid off or killed" although there is no proof of that (that I am aware of). But seriously, do you think that one day, out of nowhere, a video of what actually happened will surface? I mean, everyone had their cameras out at the Towers, and this happened well after so you would think people would be prepared, no? I just have hope that at some point, someone will get some balls and release a tape.

Even If I had been working at a gas station, i would have made a copy. You know these guys, as soon as it happened, looked at the tape...I would! I know people will say the FBI was waiting in all of the stores that had cameras in order to take them before anyone could see, but again, no proof of that. I still have a little hope, a little hope that someone has this, on tape and is scared to release it.