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Topic: 666 pebbles (Read 7628 times)

(Rev 13:18) Here is wisdom: He who has understanding, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is a number of a man. And its number is 666

We all know the calculations that 'prove' Nero, Hitler, Elvis or Obama is the beast of Revelation.Could there be another interpretation of the verse? The beast stands before a jury and received 666 black stones. Meaning the number 666 is the number of jury members?

While the stones were used for regular counting they had also had a prominent place in the ancient legal system. Also in the Bible. The white stone Jesus gives is a voting stone. When the high priest went in the Holies of Holies he held a bag with 1 black and 1 white voting stone. (Drawing lots)So is the verse about "counting stones" or "voting stones"?

Bit of a stretch but ignoring the symbology of the stones.... G5585ψηφίζωpsēphizōThayer Definition:1) to count with pebbles, to compute, calculate, reckon2) to give one's vote by casting a pebble into the urn3) to decide by votingPart of Speech: verbA Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from G5586Citing in TDNT: 9:604, 1341G5586ψῆφοςpsēphosThayer Definition:1) a small worn smooth stone, a pebble1a) in the ancient courts of justice the accused were condemned by black pebbles and the acquitted by white2) a vote (on account of the use of pebbles in voting)Part of Speech: noun feminineA Related Word by Thayer's/Strong's Number: from the same as G5584Citing in TDNT: 9:604, 1341psḗphos/ψήφος [pebble, vote], psēphízō/ψηφίζω [to calculate, reckon], sympsēphízō/συμψηφίζω [to reckon], (katapsēphízomai/καταψηφίζομαι [to resolve, condemn]), synkatapsēphízomai/συγκαταψηφίζομαι [to be chosen]

A. Normal Greek Usage.1. psḗphos. This word means "little stone," "pebble," "dressed stone," or "stone" used in mosaics or board games. The plural, for "stones" used in counting, can denote "account." Other uses for small stones are in astrology, soothsaying, and especially voting. The latter use leads to the meaning "vote" or "voice," then "opinion," and in the legal sphere "voting" and "verdict."2. psēphízō, sympsēphízō, (katapsēphízomai ), synkatapsēphízomai.a. psēphízō means "to count" or "calculate" with stones, in a transferred sense "to reach a verdict," and middle "to vote with a stone," "to vote," "to resolve."b. sympsēphízō, an uncommon word, means "to reckon up," "to agree on."c. katapsēphízomai means "to pronounce guilty" or "to resolve," middle "to be condemned."B. The LXX and Hellenistic Judaism.1. The LXX.a. We find psḗphos in Lam. 3:16 for "little stone" and in Ex. 4:25 for the sharp stone used for cutting the foreskin. The plural in Sir. 18:10 is used for little stones in the sand. The sense of "voting stone" occurs in 4 Macc. 15:26.b. psēphízō is a variant in 1 Kgs. 3:8; 8:5 for "counting." sympsēphízō occurs in Jer. 49:20 Cod. AQ for "counting" (sheep).2. Josephus.a. Josephus uses psḗphos for "resolve" or "vote."b. psēphízomai in Josephus means "to resolve" or "to reckon."c. katapsēphízomai has the meaning "to condemn."3. Philo.a. Philo uses psḗphos for "pronouncement" or "verdict." Pronouncements may be just and legal or unjust and illegal.b. psēphízomai has in Philo the sense "to decree" or "to resolve."c. katapsēohízomai means "to condemn."C. The NT and Apostolic Fathers.1. Paul in Acts 26:10 says that he gave his "voice" against believers, i.e., condemned them.2. The white stone of Rev. 2:17 may have been an amulet. It serves to ward off evil forces. The color denotes its new and distinctive character or category.3. In Lk. 14:28 psēphízō means "to reckon." As the builder should count the cost before starting, so disciples should consider their resources. They must also consider the cost of the required renunciation. "Reckon" is also the meaning of sympsēphízō in Acts 19:19 when those who had burned their books of magic valued them and found they came to a very high sum.4. The number of the beast is counted in Rev. 13:18. Numerical value is ascribed to the letters, and the total is 666. One interpretation of this number is that it is the sum of the numbers 1 to 36, and that 36 is the sum of the numbers 1 to 8. In Gnosticism the number 8, the ogdoad, is identical to sophía, so that Gnostic wisdom might be the enemy. Others arrive at the emperor Domitian.5. katapsēphízomai in Acts 1:26 seems to indicate that Matthias is officially given a place with the eleven.6. sympsēphízō means "to reckon," "to add up," "to calculate" in Hermas Visions 3.1.4.[G. Braumann, IX, 604-07]

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

This may not mean anything but 6 is the number of man and this beast (6) caused "the earth and them that dwell therein to WORSHIP THE FIRST BEAST" another 6.

This beast also causes a image to be made "of the beast that had a wound and did live. And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak" another 6.

This beast has power over two more 6's/men, which makes him a 666. You could say they are united as one and the same. I just thought of this after reading your post and (Rev. 13:11-18).

It's just that today for the first time I noticed that what we know as counting is a bit like "pebbling" in Greek.

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

By both accounts(heh heh) of Strong and Thayer I will vote for "counting." (heh heh) and this, in my humble opinion, is were the imagination of the human goes awry in study, "Bit of a stretch but ignoring the symbology of the stones...."

Ecc 3:18 I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.

Can we see that?

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Mic 7:8 Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

By both accounts(heh heh) of Strong and Thayer I will vote for "counting." (heh heh) and this, in my humble opinion, is were the imagination of the human goes awry in study, "Bit of a stretch but ignoring the symbology of the stones...."

Well, Voting is very much part of Stong/Thayer. Stones/lots are used throught the Bible. So I can just as well say it's your imagination it's just about counting.

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Ecc 3:18 I said in my heart concerning the matter of the sons of man that God might cleanse them, so as to see that they themselves are beasts.

Can we see that?

Relevance?

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

While the stones were used for regular counting they had also had a prominent place in the ancient legal system. Also in the Bible. The white stone Jesus gives is a voting stone. When the high priest went in the Holies of Holies he held a bag with 1 black and 1 white voting stone. (Drawing lots)So is the verse about "counting stones" or "voting stones"?

Bit of a stretch but ignoring the symbology of the stones....

I have thought the White Stone with a new name in it was an immortal and incorruptible dove's egg.

"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth [it]." (Rv 217, KJV)

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I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program! JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!! MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

yeah. and the opposite are the black stones.Stones were used in (secular) court, in the Temple, and several other Scriptures for voting and declaring God's will.Also for counting. Bit like an abacus I assume.Both (counting, voting) use the same Greek word.

So my question was and still is: Is the number of the beast only about counting/calculating or also about voting?

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1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

1 Timothy 2:3-4 ...God our Savior; Who will have all men to be saved...John 12:47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...