Dale, I don't eat meat very often,usually during the Holidays or visiting someone having a B-B-Q but if I do have a hamburger I prefer it be Kobe beef. I empathize with Rogers plight of thinking to having to abstain("just in case"). His defense is groundless.

Is it groundless? We have the occasional positive testing rider arguing for tainted meat and a huge beef industry with deep funds arguing against. On top of that, the evidence apparently was eaten in most of these cases. And we have both an industry and general public that has zero interest in a positive sample ever coming to light.

With the evidence having been "eaten", Rogers' defense is literally groundless. But actual tainted food sidelining a rider? I find that rather easy to believe.

I wouldnt say his defense is groundless, Bob. There is precedent and the timing is suspicious having been in China the week before. Personally I dont see how any of these guys compete at the level they do on pan e agua, I dont really think it is possible to do so. So I suspect there is plenty of reason to believe any of these positives. Still gotta give him a chance to defend himself. The China defense may be in fact true, but how does one prove it?

For substances like clenbuterol which can occur in food, I think there should be a threshold. Yes, everyone may well the drug up to the threshold, but if was set correctly so the usual food taint would pass, I am guessing there would be little increase performance so drugging up to that level is net sum very little gain and now an actual bad meal puts you over.

That approach would have preserved the results of a grand tour that no one is arguing was won because of the minute amount of clenbutero that was detected. It would have made racing over the next two years better. And it treats the riders/employees that all benefit from like a valued asset. Allows them to feast at the training table without wondering "what if ...".

Posted By stronzo nonfumare on 12/18/2013 03:28 PM
I wouldnt say his defense is groundless, Bob. There is precedent and the timing is suspicious having been in China the week before. Personally I dont see how any of these guys compete at the level they do on pan e agua, I dont really think it is possible to do so. So I suspect there is plenty of reason to believe any of these positives. Still gotta give him a chance to defend himself. The China defense may be in fact true, but how does one prove it?

It's groundless in that it has been tested and lost and one should know better than to eat beef (if in fact that was the source),especially one that had rode alongside Berto.Also having been associated with Ferrari does not help.

O.C. and bobs, his history means that he is the one on that team who will be subject to random tests. So again, if the whole team eats tainted meat, it is he that will show positive. (And conveniently for UCI, it looks like they caught another doper and also conveniently, this rider has little credibility.)

I'm not defending him. I just don't like a system that can well punish innocent riders by its inherent design.

I don't like the system either Ben; in fact I am always kicking against system when it seems wrong. Its greatest fault is that no clean rider can point to his/her data and say, looks world, I is clean. By now an argument like that just causes ridicule and laughter, which is a shameful shortcoming of the whole system.

But what does that have to do with playing the Sky card? It's the Joker of Dark Side cards ("we are a team that races and wins clean").

I always have to ask why would he take XXX or YYY? Why would he take this drug at the end of the season? He is plenty lean by then and what other use would Clen have than to lose fat? China is a country with a lot of bad things in their environment including tainted meat. There is no logical reaso to take this drug at the end of the year? Anyone know more about it?