With Lynndie England's conviction earlier this week, seven US soldiers have now been sentenced for their role in the Abu Ghraib torture scandal. But is it enough? DER SPIEGEL looks at two lives destroyed by Abu Ghraib. One, an Iraqi community leader -- the other, his American guard...

Everybody should take the time to read it and really think it over. I suspect we'll be hearing and seeing and thinking a lot more about our torture camps once the other pictures and videos are released.

Wow, powerful story. Can't help but feel enraged by what I read. It is a rage that is compounded when you add into the mix the two Brit soldiers that got nicked, and then busted out of jail dressed as "arabs" and carrying all sorts of naughty weaponry....

Makes you wonder about the validity of the whole "insurgency" thing, and it makes my blood boil that the vile criminals that did these things (and CONTINUE to do these things) under our name, DON'T want their crimes to be revealed, and hide behind government lawyers when the ACLU comes calling...

Can you imagine the terror and despair of being held captive, tortured, and degraded and being repeatedly asked to say something you just don't know?

Can you imagine the RAGE, the blind fury, and violent hatred that you would feel towards your abusers when they finally believed you, and released you?

If that were to happen to me, there would be no force on heaven or earth that would stop me from exacting my revenge, and extracting justice from those that created that hell...

Now imagine that there are 10,000 people that feel that way RIGHT NOW, and you happen to be occupying their country...Is it any wonder that this illegal war is doomed? When your troops just want to get out, and your enemy wants to kill as many before they do, who, exactly, wins in that situation?

They WANT civil war in Iraq. They WANT torture, they WANT babies killed. They WANT women raped. Dead babies are no "collateral damage" to them, as atrocious as that word is. They WANT them dead.

They are EXACTLY like the German nazis.

When I first came to DU an "old" DUer, a Buddhist, told me that he believed they are the German nazis re-born. I cannot remember all his arguments - good arguments -, but I thought long about what he told me. To-day I'm convinced.

It's about power, it's about oil, it's about money. And, the more I think about it, it's really about the "good" and the "evil". Somehow evidently every generation has to fight this fight anew. There IS some progress, generally speaking (the idea of having something like the United Nations would have been unconceivable during the 30-year war, for instance), but at snail's pace...

Hell and doom and pestilence and boils and bankruptcy and warts and vomiting blood and creeping, shriveling dysentery on every fucking American media outlet and shill that won't report the truth of this goddamned evil corrupt bloodthirsty hate-mongering warmongering greed-filled Republican cabal of criminals.

As you say, the torture was systemic - deliberate, planned, and further encouraged by the general who had used it at Guantanamo - and who was sent to achieve the same 'results' as Abu Ghraib by even more senior generals, Secretaries of Defense, Vice-Presidents and Presidents. Who should all be on trial for this.

Reading this reminds us why Iraqis will hate us for generations. We cannot be 'thier partners'.

33. "The best lack all convictions / while the worst are full of passionate

intensity"

The Second Coming -- W. B. Yeats

Turning and turning in the widening gyre The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world, The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere The ceremony of innocence is drowned; The best lack all convictions, while the worst Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand; Surely the Second Coming is at hand. The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert A shape with lion body and the head of a man, A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun, Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds. The darkness drops again; but now I know That twenty centuries of stony sleep Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle, And what rough beast, its hour come round at last, Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

Unfortunate that Yeats was very far right-wing ( as in a Fascist,or damn close). Always a problem when I teach Yeats, Pound and Eliot balancing my hatred for the politics with my love of the poetry. Even more unfortunate that this poem so clearly describes the situation now. I guess that this is what makes it great work.

I read their online news in German. I think that the Empire is rotting from within. The perps are at the top, just as at Nurnburg. But the lowly can not get away with "I was only doing my duty" either.

54. Well, chknltl, there are five types of Americans in reference to...

things like this, in my opinion.

The first type actively allows and encourages it to happen.

The second type is aware of it, but never thinks about it more than as an afterthought.

The third type isn't even aware of it.

The fourth type doesn't like it, but doesn't do anything to change things, especially if it will cause them any type of hardship or ask for any type of sacrifice.

The fifth type doesn't like it and is doing everything in their power to make it stop.

I've very proud to be part of the fifth type, and I'm proud of all Americans who are part of this group. The world is aware that not all Americans find this to be acceptable and that we are working to change things. Thank you for being part of this fifth group as well.

I will add the contents of this article to my ever growing list of reasons to be ashamed to call myself an american. This list includes the actions of our government which are detailed in www.beyondtreason.com . Thank you I Have A Dream, for continuing to fight the good fight.

In May 2004, Hajj Ali decided to take advantage of his popularity. He founded an organization and called it the "Association of the Victims of American Occupation Prisons."

The organization quickly mushroomed into 40,000 members -- victims of torture, innocent suspects who were quickly released -- and its headquarters are at Hajj Ali's guesthouse.

There they collect the victims' horrible stories and assemble them into dossiers intended to provide an overview of the situation in the prisons. They take the information to newspapers, and they have exhibited the photos in Baghdad. But they are not interested in enlightenment. They want justice.

The organization has brought a lawsuit in an American civil court against the private contracting firms that were responsible for the interrogations at Abu Ghraib, companies like Titan and CACI, which it alleges played a key role in the torture. Hajj Ali hopes that they will be compensated, that the victims will receive monetary awards, something at least to make up for some of their suffering. This is his way of dealing with these things; he feels the need to do something to make peace with his memories.

And, it should be aired live on all major T.V. affiliates! This story is outrageous. I cannot wait for the time when the Dems control the House and the Senate. They had better do a thorough investigation into this whole scandal, and (no pun intended) heads should roll! This is ridiculous.

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