Extra Baggs: One more inspirational comeback as Ryan Vogelsong faces Giants on Monday

SAN FRANCISCO – Left-hander Matt Moore will make his first home start as a Giant on Monday, and he faces a rather odd proposition.

The opposing pitcher might get a louder ovation.

It won’t be any well-traveled right-hander who takes the mound for the Pirates when they begin a three-game series at AT&T Park. It’s Ryan Vogelsong, whose inspirational comeback story with the Giants now includes a Pittsburgh chapter.

Vogelsong is making his third start since a pitch fractured his eye socket on May 23. Not only did he make it back from what easily could have been a career ending injury, but he has made a pair of six-inning starts and yielded just one run.

He acknowledged back in June, when the Giants visited Pittsburgh and he was just beginning to throw again (with a partner to catch the ball for him), that he had drawn mental circles around this series at AT&T Park.

Vogelsong made his target date, and then some – and that surprises absolutely nobody in his former clubhouse.

“Because we know how tough he is,” second baseman Joe Panik said. “What happened was really scary, and here he’s back competing. Maybe it would surprise some people, but probably not anybody here because we know what kind of person he is.”

Panik came back from a concussion after he got hit by a pitch in June. He said he couldn’t imagine coming back in the same season from a pitch that threatened his eyesight and crushed multiple bones and sinuses.

“You’re never trying to look too far ahead, but I did see he was going to pitch in this series, and I definitely got excited,” Panik said. “It’s going to be fun to compete against him because everybody knows how much he gets after it.”

“He’s the most intense guy I’ve ever played with. He’s even more intense in some ways than (Madison) Bumgarner. When I first got here, I probably didn’t say much to him for at least two weeks. He’s got that stone cold focus. If you don’t know him well, it can be very intimidating.”

Nobody knows Vogelsong better than Buster Posey, but the Giants’ catcher was scratched less than a half hour before Sunday’s game against the Orioles because of back spasms and is considered day to day. Posey came off the bench to draw a pinch intentional walk in the ninth, and was replaced by a pinch runner. He said the back was something he’s been dealing with over the weekend and it got to the point of diminishing returns. You’d imagine that Posey would have to be in quite a bit of discomfort to miss out on Monday’s matchup, though.

Right fielder Hunter Pence is accustomed to facing former teammates, but acknowledged it’ll be “weird” to face someone like Vogelsong with whom he has formed a “bond that will never be broken.”

“We accomplished things together that will stand the test of time,” Pence said. “It’ll be weird competing against him, but it’s a challenge I think we’re all looking forward to.

“We have the highest level of respect for Vogey. He always inspires me with his work ethic and attitude and the class he shows through and through. He’s a true professional. And, I mean, he’s just a beast.”

Pence and Vogelsong always will be linked by Game 3 of the 2012 NL Division Series, when the Giants went to Cincinnati trailing 0-2 in the best-of-5 series. Pence delivered his oft-cited pregame sermon and then made a diving catch near the right field line that served as Vogelsong’s inspiration as the right-hander outpitched a dominant Homer Bailey.

“I was just looking for an opportunity to show I meant what I said,” Pence said. “You don’t always get that opportunity to make that impact on offense. I was just … all out. I was going to do whatever it took, try to make a big deal out of something small and take that energy and put it to a positive use.

“I’m grateful that I had that opportunity, and that it was able to spark him.”

Andrew Baggarly

Andrew Baggarly has documented the most eventful era in San Francisco Giants baseball history, having covered the team since 2004 for th​ree major media outlets including the San Jose Mercury News and the Oakland Tribune​. This is his 20th season as a baseball writer.
​Baggarly is the author of the bestselling book, A Band of Misfits: Tales of the 2010 San Francisco Giants, and the newly published Giant Splash: Bondsian Blasts, World Series Parades and Other Thrilling Moments By the Bay. Baggarly’s other notable life accomplishments include running as the Bratwurst in the Milwaukee Sausage Race and becoming a three-time Jeopardy! champion.

I’Lloyd repeat what I posted too late on last post. Marty Lurie talking about a quality start today . He is nothing but a shill . In my opinion , this team is heading south , and I am not talking geographically

It’s a nice story line to draw fans. But this is MLB. Giants will be going out tomorrow to kick his derrière and vice-versa. As a die hard fan, thanks for the memories Vogie but if we win 20-0 I will be quite happy.

I’m concerned. Breckeroni has been missing for the past few days. And I expect he is just as torn about tomorrow’s game as many of us are. May Vogey pitch to a 2 – 2 tie, and his bullpen give up a win to the Giants.

When Casilla blew it against SD a few weeks ago, it took the team a long time to overcome that deflation. I hope this Casilla meltdown doesn’t finish us once and for all. Giants don’t respond well to internal anxiety. Bochys status quo needs to be corrected.

I was thinking about that too, at the time and it was close at 2nd any way , maybe they might have just thrown to 1st instead, if a faster runner was at 1st , but you never now . Bochy is just not that good this year, the fan boys have a hard time with it, but it is true .

Not agreeing with the decision but his logic was either that Gillaspie’s a better base runner instinctively or that if the game goes deep, Shark is probably the last man standing. It looked to me like Gillaspie got a decent break off of first so no guarantee Shark would have made it.

I wouldn’t sweat it. Having Gillaspie run for Buster was the least of Bochy’s bad decisions today. Truth be told we all know the person that should have been running for Buster was KT and he’s not here. That’s what I’d like to know, why isn’t he?

It was fubar. He replaced Posey with a SLOWER baserunner, and burned a bench player he might have needed in extras. Smarge was a no-brainer in that situation. Count me flummoxed. (And trying to stay PG.)

“If there’s a silver lining, it’s that there’s always a new closer in the even years. Brian Wilson gave way to Sergio Romo, who gave way to Santiago Casilla. And thankful we are for all of them. This kind of game makes it easier for the Giants to make a decision that’s not as tough as it used to be. Derek Law is nails. Santiago Casilla is … the … uh … curvy part of the hammer that removes nails. There’s at least a non-zero chance that Buster is hugging Law after something beautiful in October.”

As I stated in an earlier post, baseball in general is having a down year. I almost feel like winning it all this year is like being a big fish in a little pond. Bochy’s best job was in 2010 when he had a light hitting lineup and a pitching staff that had to make do with little support. A chimpanzee could have coached the 2012 team to a WS win. In 2014 we were 46-53 after game 63 and won it on the strength, largely, of one pitcher.

How much more evidence does he need to put Law in the closer’s role? How many more straight fastballs does Strickland need to throw until he’s properly coached? How many more times is he going to put an over-the-hill Lopez into high stress situations? How often is he going to yank a reliever who has gotten two easy outs in an over managing event par excellence.

The team is losing it at the moment and their manager represents this loss as much as anything.

Perhaps it’s a method that worked best up through 2014, and now is the dawn of a new age where impulse and trend should be followed more closely than instinct that has been honed over a lifetime of baseball.

Bochy is so by the book he’s predictable with his righty lefty bull pen management. But sometimes he should just go on gut instinct. Big part of the game tho playing the odds pays in the long run. But odds are just that. Gut instinct would of seen Casilla crapping early and yanked him.

Even a national writer touched on the very subject of Evans’ off season recently. Basically the gist of it was that even you or I could have signed Cueto and Shark. The Giants really wanted Greinke and one he said know they just went down the list of top pitchers.

There is no “cojones” in that, no great strategy or forward thinking, none. Then there is the Span deal which may make the Rowand deal look attractive when all is said and done.

Then he goes out and makes trades in desperation, trading talent and not even bringing in a closer, which was the very thing the team really needed, and a power corner OF. While the Morre trade may pay off down the road, the talent given away did not help the pen that much and 3B is shaky as ever.

SO how does that give Evans cojones? The guy has been a joke for over a year, that is our GM and we should be pleased?

No it is not, the Cardinals are the 2nd wild card, if the Dodgers pass the Giants in the NL West, the Cardinals, Marlins, Pirates and Mets will be the Giants competition for the 2 Wild Card spots, the Cubs have the NL central in the bag, so who cares if they win .

Since the big league club crapped on my day, some positives from the farm:
– Chris Stratton threw a nice game tonight (7 IP, 2 ER, 8K) and has been solid since going back to Sacramento, maybe one of the better stretches in his pro career
– Arroyo went 3 for 3, the first time his AVG went up in a while
– Cory Taylor, recently promoted from Augusta straight to Richmond went 7 shutout innings with 8K in only his 2nd Richmond start

I am home from the game now and my perspective is a little skewed. I had to drive into the park because we were going to meet some friends afterwards. I hit stop and go traffic on the Altamont Pass as someone loss their life driving today. I was late to the game but generally enjoyed the sun, crowd and game for 8 innings. Then of course the gut punch from Casillas. We ended up going to a great place to eat. Pacific Cafe if you like seafood and enjoyed the rest of the evening. My takeaways from the day:
One person lost their life.
Two Giant relievers blew it.
An outstanding day at the park otherwise with my wife.
The Giants are 7 and 7 in their last 14 games and still in first.
Four friends found a good restaurant to enjoy.
A mixed day for sure but Casillas gofer ball was not the worst thing to happen today. If my calculations are right there are still 45 games to determine the fate of this team. Enjoy it while you can.

Bochy is never wrong, and should never be blamed for anything. They won three World Series because Bochy is a great manager, but when things aren’t going well, he bears no responsibility. If a player is given a job, and performs that job in a subpar manner, it has nothing to do with Bochy, even though Bochy chose the player for the job and continues to use the player in that same role, even though the player hasn’t performed the job satisfactorily. Any thought that Bochy might, in any way, contribute to losses is “idiocy of the highest order.” Do I have that about right?

I’m not the biggest fan of Schulman but he had a great line on Twitter in response to the doomsday reaction by people today. “Fans never see a baseball season as a living, breathing creature.” So very true. Did today’s loss hurt? Of course. Has this post ASB break been tough to watch? Absolutely. But it’s approximately 1/6 of the season. I could understand people jumping off ledges and having zero faith if we hadn’t won, multiple times, with this core group of players, or if the title years had been smooth, dominant displays where we just consistently looked like the best team in baseball. But that was never the case. Maybe people are superstitious and since they wrote this team off in those years they’re doing the same now. Players and coaches, in any sport, know to never underestimate the heart of a champion. The same cannot be said for some on here.

I’m not saying Bochy must go, but trying to argue that Bochy shouldn’t ever be criticized is just as ridiculous as calling him a terrible manager. If he was deserving of credit for the successes, that means his actions and decisions significantly impact the team’s chances, which also means that it is possible for him to hurt the team as well.

The team has enough talent to win the division. A quarter of the season is left. Let’s see what happens. To this point, however, I don’t think he’s had a very good year. And it’s also true that eventually any manager is going to become less effective. I’m interested in seeing whether Bochy and the players are going to be able to turn this around.

Despite what some may think, I’m not of the belief that Bochy should never be criticized or placed above rebuke. But many on here are calling for his ouster and insinuating we’d be better off without him. That strikes me as “knee jerk hysteria.” When players don’t come through, the manager looks bad. Some baseball people, who aren’t so emotionally invested, probably look at this team, with all the injuries we’ve had, coupled with this horrific run, and say, man, Bochy still has managed to keep this team in first place. Am I saying Bochy is having a great year? No, but I’m also not gonna assert that he’s having a down one. It’s all a matter of perspective.

It is weird but I think too many people place fault on Boxhy for that. It’s all the FO and the powers that be that have the biggest hand in the final roster. The team goes out and gets players and dishes out certain contracts and Bochy has to play them, like it or not.
Bochy’s hands have to be tied in certain situations. The team gave a guy like Span a big off season deal and Bochy must have to play him. If he started a player making little money ahead it makes the FO decisions look suspect.
Same with the pen, they paid the vets because they have been part of championships and will ride it out with the likes of Casilla and Lopez. This team refuses to look bad over playing players that will actually help NOW

“Surprisingly, this is just the second blown save for Casilla this season that’s come with two outs. That’s not praising with faint damn — he’s clearly blown too many saves this season — but I’m just stunned that there haven’t been more wedgies quite like this, where the underwear was pulled through our noses, right when everything was about to be over and happy.”

But, you most certainly did not lose hope. You are reacting emotionally to a bad loss.

This one was no better or worse than Balksilla or about 5 other terrible losses. And the guys woke up this morning, and they will get ready, and they will go play. And they do so in first place, regardless of everything before.

You simply don’t “give up hope” on a scuffling team that just so happens to be in first place. Because, that would be absurd

It really doesn’t matter who starts for the Giants because once Casillas comes in you might as well turn the channel. I do not know why Bochy continues to bring him in in clutch closing situations. That game last night was disgusting….just like many other games where the Giants “closer” closed it out in favor of the other team. I CAN blame Bochy because he continues to “go to the well” and the well is dry, dry, dry. The bullpen is spotty and will be the cause of the Giants not winning the pennant this year. I can only imagine how the starters feel when they give their pitcher a 4 run lead fairly early in the game only to lose 8-7.

fine, but i think too many people here are quick to draw conclusions that Sabean still is a puppet master. So then why just not be the GM?
The team has made some erratic / questionable moves since Evans took control. Funny how he escapes any blame for the state of the roster, but Bochy gets a large about of flack. I’m sure you know the manager does not pick a roster alone right?

Casilla leads all closers in the majors with six blown saves. In one of those six, the Giants later won the game in extra innings. They lost the other five. He also has two other losses that are not blown saves but where he gave up the winning run late in a tie game.

That means seven of the Giants’ losses happened when their “closer” came into the game late with a lead or a tie. I know it’s a team game. I know those losses aren’t 100% Casilla’s “fault.” But those are the facts.

It’s been obvious since early May or so that Casilla is an inferior closer, yet nothing has changed. Heck, forget May–he wasn’t a good closer last year, either.

Ms. Memory … Bochy has switched Closers before. Were the circumstances like this: repeated failure and a patient switch in August or did things get even worse? If you are busy this AM I can do my own research later.

Casilla was demoted from closer in July 2012 after blowing six saves in about a month. They went to “bullpen by committee” for awhile, and then Romo emerged as closer. (Casilla, of course, became closer earlier that season while Wilson went out with TJ surgery.)

Casilla replaced Romo as closer in late June 2014 after a number of blown saves that month.

I didn’t say “Fire Bochy,” and I wouldn’t say it, ever. He’s earned the right through his past successes to go out on his own terms and timing.

I do believe he’s part of the problem this year and that perhaps he’s reached the point where it might be better for him to have a less stressful job and for the team to have a new voice and some new ideas.

When that time comes, I assume Ron Wotus is the heir apparent; he’s earned it. Whether that will be enough of a new voice, I don’t know.

Lefty – you said “He’s more interested in preserving egos and pecking orders than in winning”.

Look, I’m upset at these losses. I’m upset that certain changes haven’t been made. But if you think for one nanosecond that he isn’t interested in winning, that’s just being emotional.

Part of running the club is judging who can perform and who can’t. We have the luxury of judging from the outside. I certainly disagree with the snails pace of some radical changes in the rotation, bullpen and batting order. I disagree with him in many areas.

You said below that this wasn’t any worse of a loss than the Balk-silva game and others. Maybe–but it felt worse. In that game in San Diego, they trailed the whole way, scrapped back, and had a lead for maybe five minutes of the game. It felt like a game they were going to lose but then might steal at the last minute. And, of course, it was only the second game out of the break, they still had a nice cushion in the NL West, and we didn’t know that they were going to play the worst baseball in the majors for the next month.

Yesterday’s game was in the win column, or should have been. Plenty of offense, finally, Cueto’s best start in weeks. The Dodgers losing, the Giants about to win the second straight series against good teams, maybe things are turning around. Then–this inconceivable gut punch. To a team that’s barely emerging out of an awful funk. We’ll see what the effects are, but they haven’t been especially resilient, this year or last, after Casilla does this to them.

This Casilla cat has the nerves to get pissed when removed from a game earlier this year. Its ok to get mad just dont show up the boss like that and then he’s pissed again when he discovers the Gs may be looking for a potential closer around the trade deadline . This cat is a piece of work aint he!!

I’m sure he wants to win. I’m sure he persuades himself that “staying the course” is the best way to win. We’re agreed there.

But consider:
–Casilla should have been replaced as closer long ago
–Peavy and Cain have been problems all season long. Peavy’s in the bullpen now but only because Evans went out and got an upgrade. Cain is still a problem.
–Span has been a huge disappointment and a drag on the lineup all season long.

These are not just a couple of games, knee-jerk emotional reactions–it’s the whole season, which is now down to under 50 games. We have the worst closer, one of the worst starters in the league in the rotation despite better options, and one of the worst center fielders/lead off men. Changes could have been made, but they haven’t been.

What, exactly, am I supposed to think (not feel, think) about those things?

I said it before and i’ll say it again Brett bochy probably got away with a lot of $hit as a child! Im sure he got himself into some mischief as a young tike but papa Bruce gave young Brett chance after chance after chance before he made radical changes to improve young Brett Bochy. Brett seemingly turned out ok so let’s see what this final chapter in this baseball novel brings us.

You’re a lifelong great fan, and you remember going through things like this during the Bochy era….you can go get the facts and try to say they aren’t exactly the same, and that’s fine. But, basically, it’s the same.

It’s a clubhouse that keeps everything inside. Everything. It’s a clubhouse that preaches foxhole unity at all costs. And, it’s a clubhouse of enough talent to win it all. Step back from yesterday and look at the team and compare it to others….not the ambiguous “the Dodgers have more grit” or whatever it was you had said.

The Giants are poised to win the West, and if not, the Wild Card. What is the goal? Win the division, and if not, the Wild Card.

We can all be frustrated with the pace of change. I am. I also feel he has made mistakes this season at a seemingly higher rate…but: He wants to win AND keep the team together in that foxhole for the post season fight if they make it. We are people who want Kelby Tomlinson to play Center Field.

Ultimately, these players simply have to perform to the level they can and have. Bochy, as boss, is giving them more chances than we would. Those players know they are fortunate to have these chances and know it’s on them to reward his faith

Isnt it funny how as you get older different things can excite you! Went to The Grocery Outlet yesterday and bought myself a different brand of coffee then i normally would and i woke up this morning with such anticipation and excitement LOL! Needless to say im pretty happy with the outcome.

I’ve always thought that every personality trait can be both positive and negative. Bochy’s loyalty/stubbornness in giving veterans a long rope has worked out many times with spectacular results. It’s also NOT worked out many times, both here and in San Diego. People forget about the “odd” years. Those happened, too. I get that you can’t expect a team to win the World Series every year, but missing the playoffs entirely? That’s not a good look.

I think Bochy believes that if he disrespects a veteran, it could cause clubhouse problems, so he waits a long time before doing it. But I wonder if he’s equally in danger of losing the room by staying the course (like with Casilla) when the problems have to be obvious and frustrating to the players. Does anyone really believe the other Giants aren’t over Casilla as closer? I’d bet money that they are–and were months ago.

I’m not sure this is the place to add my 2 cents, but since I agree with your statement, I might as well do it here.

Casilla is simply (and I use this word with some forethought) two things. One, he is not very smart and secondly, he is emotionally labile. For this reason, he should never make his own decisions on the mound and must NEVER shake off Buster, or anyone else for that matter, Trevor included. This is more easily said than done because he’s more likely to have a tantrum than to accept someone else’s decision on what or where to throw. To correct this, the Mgr. needs to have an immediate hook when he shows even the slightest resistance or temper. Even he might be sharp enough to realize his attitude is unacceptable and he must accede to someone else’s judgement. If this doesn’t work SeeYa, Casilla.

Thanks.
Kruk just said he sees matching up specific hitters coming up in the 9th now. He did not say, “By Committee” but, if your History lessons fit that might be the pattern of change we have seen before.

I saw that. Henry blocked me on twitter last year because of our disagreements on Gs ball what a clown but im glad he’s feeling so much better. Brian Murphy from KNBR is another punk who will block you on their twitter page if youre not careful but needless to say my life does not depend on following these dudes to be a happy guy.

I am more optimistic today than I have been in a while. Moore makes this team much better, and if Samardzija has figured it out, I would take the current 7-1 odds for winning it all again. Yesterday was a blip from a healing and improving bullpen. A blip that may serve to refocus the entire team with some intensity. Stave off the Dodgers for the West, and with this starting staff, IF D, underrated (and healing) Offense and a bullpen that has the potential to do well, they could be formidable in the playoffs. All that may even make up for an opposing catcher tagging up from second on a ball our CFer caught in left center. Ha.

This year’s crown is ripe for the taking. The Giants have the experience, and maybe the tools, to do it.

Yep. Plus the fact that he’s been angrily shaking off both catchers, showing up outfielders, and disrespecting the manager. I don’t know how he’s perceived personally, but publicly he looks like a bad teammate to me.

The sabermetrics crowd calls it the “myth of the closer.” Part of it’s economics, I guess. Closers get paid more than cogs, so the players and their agents pressure management to give them the higher-leverage opportunities. Incentives for closing games are written into contracts. So it becomes a big deal to demote a closer or take away opportunities.

It is my guess that Law may emerge as the closer. He is not a blow them away pitcher. But he usually has clean innings. I know yesterday he gave up a scratch single but the retired the rest. In the end 1,2,3 is how you want it to go. My only concern is his inexperience.

The Casilla Conundrum is such because Bruce and the staff (now that Evans whiffed on a closer at the deadline) have a limited number of choices.

A lot of you are calling for Law immediately. Well, I worry greatly. Those 9th inning lights shine way brighter than any other, and one meltdown can set a guy back for a long time (*Strickland*). Some are calling for Romo….one trick ponies don’t do well as closers, and he seems to be down to that. I personally think Strickland , but I also admit to his shortcomings. As a one inning guy, though…he may be best suited.

Who knows. But, that is the reason why Bruce hasn’t yanked Casilla from the role…there is no apparent answer sitting there ready to go.

Casilla does not have the mental capacity, pitching intelligence, or demeanor to be closer. It IS time for Bochy to take a radical chance on anyone else.

If you want to pin 6-8 losses on Casilla then go ahead. He’s earned them. Blame Bochy. Sure, he made the wrong move. But Bochy has made the right moves more times than not, which is why we’re still in first. And Casilla has been our best option to date.

Keep it in perspective. We have not lost 51 games just because of Casilla. In the 117 games this year, there are starters who have lost their fair share of games for us too. And everyday players who share responsibility too. It’s a team game.

It sucks to no end that Casilla blew it but it’s history now. Have to look ahead, not behind. Changes warranted? Perhaps. New manager? How absurd. No. New closer? Not so fast. Law has yet to prove he can handle the 9th. Slowly ease him in. We’re in a pennant race with 45 games to go. You don’t make drastic changes when the horse you’re riding is still in first.

I would love to see that happen. Law has proven he can do it in the 8th for sure. I was trying to think of Comps of closers that were not BlowThemAwayGuys™ but I think they are rare. Someone here will name one if they notice this as this is a knowledgeable group.

I keep hearing that Casilla does not have what it takes yet when you look at the hand before you, he’s the best option available. I guess we now live in a society that wants to find blame for everything. Giants did not trade for a closer. They did not have the farm system to make the trade. They can’t draft or develop players. They need better or new scouts. They failed when they signed Span. They shouldn’t have traded Duffy. Pagan sucks. Belt is a nobody. Bochy should be fired. Evans should be fired. Where do the excuses stop? This abuse excuse society is beyond mind boggling.

I really think that it’s a combination of not having other options as you state and the Giants way which is saving face. They are not apt, like the Red Sox or Dodgers, to just move on from a guy they are suing money on. They are unable to just cut the cord, admit fault and move on like other teams that have cut a guy with a fat contract who has failed to produce. That pissed me off about this team and their FO.

But yeah, too many here assume Law is that guy, same people who said 2 years ago it was Strickland. Same that think Romo can just jump in.

It most likely will be a committee thing. If they believe so much in the AAA arms why not throw one in!?!?! The Royals did it 2 years ago. They may have lost that WS but it helped a year later.

As of right now the Giants closer of the future is most likely not on the team. Will have to be a FA acquisition over the winter

Bochy manages differently in the second half, shorter leash for players not performing. There is a long history of benching players like Pablo in 2010 when they are not performing. I think this may be more about circumstances than managing style. The Giants and Bochy knew they needed to replace Casillas at the back in of the pen. They could not get it done. Casillas pitched better in the last two weeks as noted on this blog. It seemed the pen had corrected their problems.

Yesterdays gut punch is either a set back on an upward trend or the last two weeks were false hope. From now until the end of the season is when I will judge how he preforms this year. As for Span he has done well the last 30 days so I see why Bochy has stuck with him. But I’ve not been impressed all year.

It was a collective effort. Cannot blow a lead when up 7-1 going into the 7th. Just cannot happen. Cueto had a terrible 7th, Strickland had a terrible 8th and Casilla had a terrible 9th. It was a collective effort. I just really hope that yet ANOTHER gut punch, devastating Casilla blown save loss doesn’t continue this team into an unrecoverable spiral. His blown saves have had a tendency to do that.

What’s his fastball top out at? I saw him throw 94 with a 72 mph curve. Both for strikes. I’m not sure what he could do if he needed a strike out. I’m sure in the 8th he’s just pitching for outs, anyway that he can get them

Special nut offer. I can’t go to the game on Wednesday. The result 2 free tickets to anyone. It’s not first come first served its who makes it easier to hand them off. Tomorrow I am traveling to Chico so I can drop them off along the way. Wed. I’m in Stockton but can meet along either 99 or 5 from Lodi to Manteca or Clements in the morning. Let me know on here and I will make arrangements.

With all the criticism of Boch’s personnel decisions, I sometimes wonder just how much roster autonomy he truly has and how much he needs to placate the sensibilities of the check-signers. If recent history suggests a pattern, it is that this organization does not cut any player to whom they have paid a significant amount of money. What’s more, that player will get every opportunity to earn his salt regardless of his continued demonstrable incompetence until it is finally overly evident that said player’s presence is negatively impacting the team’s ability to win will he be benched. Barry Zito, Aubrey Huff even Timmy come to mind. The bigger the contract the longer the leash it seems. McGehee last year was an insurance gamble just in case what they thought they saw in Duffman the previous year did not pan out. When Neukom unceremoniously DFAed Rowand in 2011, wasn’t Neukom like a week later as unceremoniously likewise DFAed? This organization hangs onto players like some of my relatives hang onto hand-me-down furniture. What’s Casilla’s contract? $10,000,000 a year? He will most likely be allowed to blow six more saves before ownership is in the same place we’ve all been for the past two or three months.

One of the better analyses of Casilla yet. That sums it up pretty damn well. Blow a 95 mph fastball by a hitter with two outs and then hang a curve to lose the game…all after walking the tying run to bring up the go ahead run.

Casilla’s making $6.5 mil this year, which isn’t high for a premium closer. Of course, Casilla’s not one. Romo actually makes more money than Casilla does ($9 mil in the second year of a backloaded deal).

I think the answer is that Bochy has a lot of input. He’s worked with Sabean and Evans a long time and I’m sure they respect his opinion. Now, that said: Did they ask him before trading Duffy–the guy Bochy said was in his “top 5 favorite players” he’s ever coached or managed? Did they trade Bengie Molina to force him to play Buster? Did they go get Matt Moore because he was too loyal to the Peavy/Cain back-end duo? I don’t know the answers to those questions, but I wonder.

I agree with you on Law’s inexperience in the 9th. The other thing is Law is not a strikeout pitcher. But what I like is his ability to get a clean inning or at most give up a 1B. I believe Bochy will give Casillas one attempt to see if his trend is still up as it was the last 2 weeks. If he does not get it done then we go to bull pen by match up and see who emerges.

How can a guy who leads the majors in blown saves–plus several other losses charged to him–be the “best option” for the ninth?

As for the solution: I think you go slowly. Try Strickland. Try Law. Try Gearrin. Try Smith. Go with the hot hand/fresh arm/matchups/game situation, not bullpen roles set in concrete. Then you see who emerges over the last 45 games.

The old-school approach to bullpen management has worked well in (some) other years for the Giants. It’s not working well this year. Time to try something different.

Sometimes people just aren’t good enough at their jobs and need to be replaced. This happens in society and it happens on baseball teams. It’s not an excuse. It’s just a reality.

By my math, Casilla has major (not sole) responsibility for eight of the Giants’ 51 losses. There were five blown saves (out of six) that they went on to lose. There were two other losses where he came in with the score tied and gave up the winning run. And there was a game against the A’s where he came in for the ninth one run down, and gave up three more runs. The Giants scored three in the bottom of the ninth. Had Casilla held them, they would have won that game.

Now, yes, you could point to that night’s starter or the offense or a baserunning gaffe or an error–it’s a team game and it’s never all one thing. But when the team gets the game to the closer either leading or tied, it IS his responsibility to hold the other team for three outs. That’s his one and only job. So when they lose a game like that because of him failing to do his job, yes, he gets some blame. Not all of it. But significant blame.

Those were eight winnable games. A different closer isn’t going to be perfect, either, but let’s cut those eight by half. Now the Giants have a five-game lead in the West. It’s as simple as that.

Casilla has been playing with fire for a long time now. He rarely has a clean 9th. He always allows baserunners and many times gets out of it. Eventually that’s going to spell trouble. And it has a lot this season.

Two lighter moments from yesterdays game, one is Law’s entry music is “I fought the Law and the law won”. It took me a minute to figure out why they were playing this. Two after the game on Sunday they let the kids runs the bases. Well out in left field is Bum (it looked like) playing frisbee with a dog.

One cool thing was they had a between innings on Alexis Busch, the Giants first bat girl who was lost at sea. There is a plaque dedicated to her in the dugout.

I agree with the premise of your statements. However for the first few months there were no realistic options. They had to play the Casilla hand. It’s the best hand they had. Today, maybe Law can do it. Maybe not. We have 45 games left. The sure thing is that Casilla will most likely excel in 90% of his appearances and that’s probably another 2 losses (based on his stats). Can Law do better? Obviously Britton can. Jansen can. But we don’t have them. We have Casilla, Law, and the unknowns.

So very cool about Busch. Just did a Google search. She was the sole person to greet Barry Bonds at home plate after he hit his 500th home run in 2001. Another reminder that life is short and there are no guarantees.

A couple of you have questioned whether Law is experienced enough to be handed the closer’s job. I did a bit of research on his career so far.

Law was drafted in 2011, so this is his fifth year as a pro. As we know, he missed a year (mid-2014 to mid-2015) following Tommy John surgery. In his career, he’s converted 46 of 52 save opportunities. Four of those six blown saves were in 2012, his first full year in the pros. He hasn’t blown a save at any level since one in early 2014 at Richmond before his TJ. He hasn’t always been the closer on his team, either. In 2013, for example, he took over as the San Jose closer after Strickland went out with his TJ surgery. Last year he took over as Richmond’s closer mid-year, after returning from TJ, when the previous closer, Josh Osich, was promoted.

Obviously the major league level, especially this time of year, is different, but there’s nothing in Law’s track record that suggests he can’t handle the ninth inning.

Well, we’ll have to agree to disagree. I think the absolute worst option imaginable is to continue with Casilla. I think literally any alternative, and yes, I do include the much-maligned (by me) George Kontos, would be better.

And there’s also not a lot of evidence to suggest Casilla should remain the closer without question. Casilla still has great stuff but he allows too many baserunners and has poor pitch selection too often. I think it’s time for closer by committee and begin easing Law into that role to take it over. No need to tell Law it’s yours now, don’t f-it up for a contending team. Just go with best matchups and use Law as the RH. But I agree with you that Law has the ability to get it done.

Watching Zack Britton slam the door twice on the Giants made me ponder what it must be like to have a lights out dominant closer you don’t ever have to worry about.

I like him much better than Strickland. With the wide difference in velocity between his slow stuff and fastball, I think he can be effective. Does he have closer mentality? With 45 games, I would like to see him get an opportunity or two and hopefully it leads to more. You can’t throw him in and expect a sink or swim at this point of the season. Next year, yeah, I think he can be the 9th inning guy and that would save us some big money.

Anecdotally, his demeanor indicates that he would be successful as a closer. His facial expression never changes, and he seems to have ice-water in his veins. He attacks the strike zone like he can’t wait to get back to the dugout and attack the spread. It’s as if he doesn’t even see the batter, or who’s hitting. It doesn’t seem to matter to him.

I’m not sure I really believe in “closer mentality,” except that I think Casilla DOESN’T have it. But Law’s been a pretty tough, cool customer. The signature moment for me was in Fenway a few weeks ago (we were there), when Law came in and faced Big Papi and then Hanley Ramirez. Hanley had already hit three homers in that game and the park was rocking and rolling and screaming, hoping he’d hit a fourth. And, of course–Big Papi.

Law calmly got Papi to ground to second. Then he calmly got Hanley to two strikes and got him to ground out to the infield as well.

You almost had to be there. It was so loud–the energy and momentum were all with the Red Sox. And Law was so impressive.

How many pitchers can hit the strike zone consistently with pitches that have a difference of 25 mph? Not many. Law can. I’ve been very impressed with him. He has been put into pressure situations, not everything has to be in the 9th, and has performed outstanding. He will be the reason why the Giants don’t re-sign Casilla or Romo (i hope).

Britton has been unreal. He’s perfect in save opportunities and hasn’t allowed an earned run in his last 41 appearances! He has an ERA of 0.54 and an ERA+ of 827!!! What an insane luxury that would be to have closing the door in the 9th. Casilla gave up as many earned runs in that outing as Britton has all season.

When they say baseball or sport is a game of inches, they mean it. Crawford’s triple play. Inches and it would have been a different ball game. Casilla’s hanger, inches and it would be strike 3 or a ball. There is a lot of skill in the game. There is also a lot of luck, both good and bad.

I know he’s been “hot” lately but is it time to move Pagan into the leadoff spot, Panik up to the #2 spot and put Span and Nunez either 7-8 or 7-9? Span has not been a total disaster, but he has not been good. He makes soooo much weak contact and was 0-6 yesterday. The Giants scored 7 runs, which should have been more than enough to win. And Span was huge on Saturday. But he was up with the bases loaded and one out and again yesterday and didn’t produce. His OBP is under .330, his slugging is barely .350 and he has an OPS+ of 85. Nunez is fast but not a real OBP guy so I understand a hesitation to lead him off. But Pagan, the blog’s whipping boy for many, has been fairly productive at the plate and would be better suited to lead off at this point. This has very little to do with yesterday’s game, rather it’s what has transpired over the course of the season.

This is still a first place team that I think will win the division. But how many games has this team won when trailing in the 9th? And how many have they lost when leading in the 9th? They absolutely won some games in the first half where they were probably “outplayed,” but I don’t recall many (or any?) of them when they were trailing in the 9th. Whereas Casilla, as Lefty has pointed out, has led directly to 5 losses when *leading* in the 9th. A loss is a loss but to lose when *leading* in the 9th is just devastating.

Agree. Designating one pitcher as your “closer” works well if he is your best relief pitcher. If he isn’t, then you are following an old-school approach that will inevitably lead to more blown saves than if you simply went with the hot hand.

Agreed that is a good ratio. But I guess what I am saying when you have a runner on third with less than 2 outs I am not sure he can get the K. But I think may not have the tendency to put himself in those positions.

Agree. Also, Cueto/Bochy share some 7th inning blame. IRRC, Cueto lost Ramos on a pitch on the black (that Casilla got 3X ! in the 9th on Davis), then started getting hit hard. He faced a lefty who got a hit before he departed, when Will Smith was warmed up in the pen.

Well, as I said this is *not* just about yesterday’s game, but Span’s ugly 0-6 renewed the urgency. I don’t think it’s beating a dead horse when the leadoff hitter has an 85+ OPS and save a few moments here and there has been a very quiet presence at the top. He is not even the second best option at leadoff on this team. As this team showed, they need to add on whenever possible so maximizing offensive efficiency is crucial. Which would start with not giving the most ABs on the team to one of its least productive hitters.

I don’t think it goes in the “what was he thinking” category regardless given (1) how well Law has pitched this year and (2) how many devastating losses Casilla’s performances have resulted in this year. In fact, if he sticks with Casilla and this continues to happen it will be the “what [the f$%^] was he thinking” category.

In the running for the most often posted subj…
1,Span is a bad leadoff hitter
2 Casilla is an awful closer
3 Pagan is a horrible LF
4 Cain and/or Peavy are awful and should retire already
5 Bochy is an inflexible bonehead
6 Amy is a bad bad interviewer

What’s your point? What else is there to discuss (the Bochy criticism is a bit much I’ll grant you)? What will the weather be like at the game tonight? How many more music videos can be posted via comments on this blog? Also in the running for most often posted subjects, “those who complain about the subjects.”

I’m on the Law bandwagon sort of. I like Law, heck he is on MyGuy team. My point above is managers in all organizations when face with making a change in an unknown situation tend to choose the safe route. I like Law’s ability to throw clean innings in the 8th. He has replaced everyone in my mind as the best in that situation. But as some have expressed the 9th is different. I’m not sure I agree with this but I think Bochy does.

I think Bochy will process it this way. Law will get a chance or two and if he does well get more chances. It’s a process, but for Bochy to put Law in today I think it’s not how managers do things.

My opinion on Pagan is that for him to be durable and last the whole year, and the playoffs, and for him remain not only healthy but also productive, the best use would be for him to bat lower in the lineup. This would lengthen the strength of the lineup, provide some protection for the hitter above him, and put him at the plate roughly four times a game instead of five. He’s a dynamic player when he is in peak form, and I think slightly reducing his plate appearances by batting him lower in the lineup would maximize his contributions to the team throughout the rest of the regular season and playoffs.

Blogs are like the first report of a disaster. Landslide 100,000 lost and then as time goes on we see maybe it was bad but only 3,000. People tend to over react. If you were sitting behind me when the ball sailed out of the park in the 9th yesterday you would have seen major over reaction. My poor glove took a beating. But give people more observations (the next game or 162 games) and they usually get it right on this site. Unless they have some sort of blindness.

But who says they can do it better? Most on here make observations, some rational, some irrational. But nobody implies they can do it better. And excellence in running a baseball team does not mean all criticisms are untrue. For example, of earlytimes complaint about the subject topics 5 of the 6 are essentially true (sorry just not an Amy G fan). And the self-righteous tone of “blogger living in Mom’s basement” is obnoxious. Most from my understanding are gainfully employed or retired. I for one respect the fellow GE members and don’t find it necessary to demean them through an untrue stereotype.

Ok, that’s fine. But the topic complaints posted by earltimes–that he responded to–dealt with two issues in particular that have been discussed by Lefty, myself and many others (who are not the knuckle draggers on the blog). I think the offensive ones are few are far between and people seem to have a really hard time ignoring them, which I still don’t understand.

I think CU brings a perspective we all need to hear…he has been involved and invested in player development and coaching his whole life, and can take a broad, team view we often ignore. As much as it can sound like pom pon weilding, it sure seems he turns out right at a much higher percentage than the rest of us…..

Can’t stand Fitz. Always spewing his opinions like they are facts, thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a total idiot, if you start to disagree with him he’ll cut you off and tell you why he’s right and you’re wrong and always in a disparaging “I’m smarter than you” attitude.

I was once told that Notre Dame chooses its student body from the most obnoxious and spoiled boys from every Catholic high school in the country. Having played them a couple of times while in college, I couldn’t disagree.

I actually was troubled by his mocking Brownie about cricket (indirectly his heritage) and TO about his marital history. Personal attacks when you disagree with someone are not OK, and I regret not saying so in the moment.

I have decided to wait and see what Bob Fitzgerald wants to do with the following Giants problems:

1) Who should be the closer?

2) Who should lead off?

3) Should the Giants reverse the trade with the Rays?

Since he know so much, I will just wait and see what he wants to do. Clearly hi superior knowledge allowed him to come up with the Harbaugh shortcomings on his own. Heaven knows Eddie D would have fired Harbaugh over Trent B…because elite coaches are so easy to find and he would listen to Bob F…over any of his own personal Bill Walsh experiences…because Bob went to Notre Dame.

I’m not an expert but I think the bullpen arms have been a big disappointment from pre-season expectations. Jake Smith looked great last year in San Jose but stunk and got released; Ian Gardeck had TJ surgery; Ray Black still walks too many and an injury risk; Steve Okert has some moments but still not too reliable. Then there’s hard throwing Rodolfo Martinez who looked great in SJ earlier but is getting lit up in Richmond.

One guy who opened some eyes recently is Patrick Ruotolo. 27th round draft pick, 27 K in 14 IP in Salem-Keizer, just gave up his first 2 runs of the season a day or two ago. Long way to go though.

Tim Ryan is insufferable. Listening to the podcast on the Murph and Mac show (I believe Friday) you would’ve thought the Niners are a playoff team. Everything looked good except just need a little more accuracy from the QB. Both lines are great, WR are solid, and on and on and on. This was a 5-11 team that signed zero FAs, hasn’t played a single preseason game (at the time) and is picked by nearly every publication to finish last. I don’t mind accentuating some positives but when they just go full company line it gets eliminates all credibility.

I won’t get started on Fitz, it seems everyone on here is pretty unanimous with what we think of him…

Bingo. I know baseball is regionalized but I actually love the sport as a whole and enjoy keeping up to date with other teams. The highlights are great because every noteworthy play had a commercial-free video highlight, which is one of the better features.

The wicket reference was a compliment to Brownie. The alimony comment was a joke as in court of law the topic was broached here many times by The Oracle talking about the Ex Mrs Oracle so it was not “hearsay testimony,”

Would not YOU get TIRED if the Oracle 100% of the time said I never criticized Bochy or the TEAM when in fact you know I do and after Alou I repped Pinella and Fregosi.

What Matthew is referencing you can also read in Rob Deer’s posts. I can criticize the team but I am always going to support them. I tried being the outspoken critic when I started my coaching profession but inside the dugout – “the others” stick together and whenever I would question one of my players openly in public – the team would rally around the player I had criticized and I no longer “had a team”. Thus on the blog – if you “pretend” you are a distant relative of a player who screwed up – you will recognize that they could never tell their nephew/player how terrible he is because why? Because it is just not done.

You know things are going badly on the blog when the people who generally get along while offering different opinions are now getting a bit nasty with each other. I really enjoy reading many of the smart opinions and funny comments, even when I disagree.

You 49er fans are in for a LONG losing season. Who cares who your QB is – they both reek. Your GM is about as big headed as Bochy in protecting vets – difference is Baalke has 3 less titles than Bochy.

The Raiders will be this area’s best football team by far. Full expect a playoff berth at season’s end. You 49er fans are welcome to turn on the silver and black to see high quality football.

The Niners suck, agreed. But that’s a big expectation for a Raiders team that hasn’t made the playoffs in FOURTEEN years. Being the best football team in the Bay Area doesn’t take much these days so that’s not really an accomplishment. Mark Davis is nearly as abominable of an owner as the York family.

Am I the only one genuinely amused by the commenters you mentioned? IMO it actually brings a little levity because the comments are so outlandish that I literally laugh out loud from nearly every post of those you mentioned. I understand that people get annoyed by it but I think those posts are funny more than anything else.

I often watch on my iPad and it’s great for that. In fact, with 10pm starts on the east coast, I probably watch on mobile devices 90% of the time. And video recaps every morning to see what happened while I was slumbering

It can be funny. But after awhile, I just get tired of the unbridled over the top negativity, insults and personal attacks. How many posts has Chris made in the last 24 hours shouting the same stuff about Crapsilla or Matt Pain Cain? Just clutters up the joint, IMHO. That said, haven’t yet blocked PuigRomoWhatever… He’s often trolling, but has come back to give accolades when the team deserves it.

Excellent point. I agree with you and Matthew 100% on the personal attacks. But, man, the general comments are legitimately funny more often than not. Most try to make well reasoned, intelligent commentary. And then some of these just come out and are genuinely hilarious.

MLBSF went too far at times, but he was also pretty funny. And Chris is in my Hall of Fame for invoking his beloved and recently departed mom’s dislike for Casilla in the immediate aftermath of the balk off.

Yes, but that’s not the only reason. Since Unlocator puts me in the UK, I get to watch the BBC live. So for my son, he gets to see Dr. Who 8 hours before it comes out in the USA plus the shows are all downloadable for a month. Other perks too.

Off subject, do you guys think Usain Bolt is really more famous than Bob Marley, as Bob Costas intimated yesterday? I understand Bob Marley passed in the early 80’s but that comment caught me off guard.