QUAERITUR: Swiss Eucharistic Prayer

This morning at Mass the priest used the 3rd Swiss Eucharistic prayer. Is that licit? What are the other Eucharistic prayers that are allowed other than 1, 2, 3, and 4 and the one for Masses with Children? Can you shed some light on this one? Currently, I believe Mass this morning was valid but not licit. Am I right?

For the USA, in 1994 the then-NCCB approved a translation of the "Eucharistic Prayer for Various Needs and Occasions".

This prayer had its origin in a prayer composed in the 70’s for a Swiss synod. It has some variations based on different themes: "The Church on the Way to Unity," "God Guides the Church on the Way of Salvation," "Jesus, Way to the Father," and "Jesus, the Compassion of God." It is printed as one prayer but it is really four different prayers.

But, from what you wrote, yes… it was licit. This Swiss prayer was approved for use in the U.S.A. I don’t know about other countries.

13 Responses to QUAERITUR: Swiss Eucharistic Prayer

If you will kindly permit, I would be most intrigued to learn more details about why you would not use a liturgy that you recognize as not only valid, but licit and approved by legitimate authority. I ask the question because I see a possible parallel with my own reasons for not using the Novus Ordo at all.

The Swiss EP is an option a priest can chose. I prefer a different option, the Roman Canon, and so I don’t choose the Swiss EP.

On the other hand, the Novus Ordo is not simply an option. If I am, for example, visiting a parish were only the Novus Ordo is used, and I am asked to take a Mass, I cannot simply opt to use the Extraordinary Form. I can, however, make a choice about the Eucharistic Prayer I am going to use.

On the other hand, your point about liceity and validity is taken: the fact that something is both licit and valid does not automatically mean that it is good.

Is there any restriction on using the Eucharistic Prayer for Masses with children? Today I wondered that when I was at daily Mass and there were only three adults under the age of 50, and all three children present were under age three. :-)

Although I wonder sometimes if “He came to take away sin, which keeps us from being friends, and hate, which makes us all unhappy” is about the limit of my theological complexity. :-)

Cannon is always a valid option. Ask St. Joan of Arc about cannon placement. :)

The Mass with children Eucharistic Prayers are going bye-bye in the new translation. I’m sorry for my pastor’s sake, ’cause he likes that one you quoted; but I’m so glad it’s going. Man, if they’d ever used that when I was a little kid, it would have been a case of “constant weader fwowed up”.

@PhilAngelus: I sure hope there is a restriction. One of our priests randomly uses the Children’s Eucharistic Prayer during our Daily Morning Masses when /I’m/ the youngest person there (I’m 27, thanks). Of course, if the language were a little more elevated, it would be WAY better than EP II. At least EP II as it is.

@SuburbanBanshee: Are you sure the Children’s EPs will be de-authorized after Dominica I Adventus? If so, Deo gratias!

I like the Swiss prayer, and I used to use it occasionally. But I stopped using it several years ago.

Why? Because I think that too much variation in the Eucharistic prayer, while the celebrant may like that, will tend to be far less formative to the spirituality and spiritual imagination of those attending Mass. I think it benefits all of us when these words being very familiar, and that won’t happen if there are too many variations.

So, supposing we only had the Roman Canon, and these, I might use them. As it is, I stick to the main four, and don’t use the Swiss prayer, or the Reconciliation prayers. I stopped using the children’s prayers several years ago.

I suppose I could use it when offering Mass privately; but in that case, almost without exception I offer Mass in Latin, and then, almost always I use the Roman Canon. At some distant point in the future, I may be so at home with the Canon in Latin, that I can venture into others. But that day is not today.

If there is a carefully considered objection to the Swiss prayer based on content, I’d like to hear it. I emphasize “carefully considered”–meaning, something more than, “I don’t like it.”

FYI, this Swiss prayer is licit to use whenever there is not a proper preface; so Advent, Christmas, Lent and Easter, as well as memorials, feasts and solemnities, it cannot be used.

Well Fr. Jackson has a point – the crucial point if dealing with the NOM.

Of course, you Fr. Zuhlsdorf or others can use the Roman Canon – but that´s not the problem (and does not solve the problem) of the NOM. Because it is also totaly legitimate and licit to use this Swiss Canon (or the 2. Canon etc.etc.!) !
And you could bring other examples: of course the NOM has some options to trim it in a traditionla way — but that does not make the NOM all ok. It is the other possibilities to celebrate it also in a very modern (modernistical) way.

Remember, we do NOT speak about ABUSES — we speak about the total licit possibilities. That is the problem of the nOM – his AMBIGUITY.
And then IMHO many draw wrong conclusions: If you can trim it the traditional way, then it is all ok., there is still the possibility of the Roman Canon, still the option of the “orate fratres” so you can´t say the nOM is per se evil.

But that (IMHO) is an error in reasoning.

The problem is exactly the “it´s POSSIBLE” and “the OPTION” — so you have the option to celebrate it in a tradditional way with an orthodox intention (well, that´s fine, of course — but it should be natch – and not optional!) — but you also have the “option” and “Posiblility” to celebrate it in a modern way, with modernistical intention.

And it was created to do so (to have the doors open to all ways and possiblilities, to the “modern world”, “modern thinking”, “ecumenism” etc. – as you can read in the papers and utterances of the designers of the NOM)!!

An ambiguitiy can be venial and excusable — but a deliberate, designed, purposly ambiguity with the option – the goal tho have this option – to celebrate in a very modernistic and modern-worldly-anthropozentric way is NOT.

Such an ambiguity is harmfull, so evil, so condemnable.

THAT´s exactly the problem of the NOM [in itselfe, not in it´s “abuses”]:

it is designed that you can celebrate it in some traditional way (yes, ok.) — but also – totaly licit (!) – in a modernistical/ecumenical/world-and-man-centered way (NOT ok.!).

Are you saying that the Swiss prayer is “modernistical/ecumenical/world-and-man-centered”? And if so, can you say why you render that judgment of the prayer?

Or, are you saying merely the fact of an alternate Eucharistic prayer to the Roman Canon–regardless of content–is “modernistical/ecumenical/world-and-man-centered”? If so, can you expand on that, please?

FWIW, I don’t consider ecumenical to be a bad thing. I understand the purpose of ecumenism to find ways to restore the unity Christ called for. True, proper, valid ecumenism does not do so at the expense of the truth; but it may do so at the expense of something clung to that can be let go of, without damage to the truth.

Example: parishes practice a kind of “ecumenism” even between fellow Catholics. I want to reach out to Spanish-speaking Catholics in my area. Were I to start using some Spanish hymns, or Spanish prayers, as part of a Sunday Mass, that does not put the truth at risk. But it requires a change of mind and heart on the part of non-Spanish speaking Catholics who don’t like that “compromise” with that they are used to.

In a similar way, if the Church can find new ways to formulate and express the truth that bridges gaps with non Catholic Christians, what’s the problem?

Yes, I am well aware that many truth-risking things were done in the name of ecumenism; I am not defending that, so there’s no point in rehashing that. The issue is valid ecumenism–which I submit is good, not bad.

sorry that I did not find the time to answer You (earlier) because a think that could have been I fruitful discussion.

Well, now it is a little late (for an every-day-actualized blog) – but let me nevertheless try a short answer (I don´t know if you will read it because it is so late – perhaps we find a possibility to discuss an other time, under an other thread…):

It is not the one or other part/possibility/elemination alone, so not only the Swiss Canon (f.e.)

It´s the many details and the whole (or not whole, but some — see below!) “spirit” behind it,

so the elemination of most of the invocations of the Saints and of the mentioning of their merits (Confiteor, Embolism, 2. Canon, Sucipe Sta Trinitas, etc…),

the elimination/weakening of the sacrificial and esp. expiatory character (new “offertory”, again 2. Canon),

the abolition of the knee bends directly after Consecration,

the elimination/abolition of the word “soul” in the whole Requiem [that´s a grave thing given/if you know the theological context and debate re this!!],

the new Good-friday-prayer for the Jews [NOM][also very grave, like the next two (or all the here mentioned points)]!!

the wrong tranlation of pro multis,

the elemination of some (important!!) verses of the reading (1 Cor) at High/Maundy Thursday, Corpus Christi and in all Masses of the MB Sacrament,

— should I go on??!

(cf. also the Short critical examination ed. Una Voce, with foreword of. Card. Bacci and Ottaviani).

Not to mention all the other liturgical re-/de!-formation, it was not only the Mass, you know – as the horrible new formula of baptism (with the abolition of violett out of the door, the exorcisms, …) — etc. etc. etc. !!

And – but – I DO NOT say, that ALL intentions (and implementations of this intentions, so the concrete reforms) were bad. (Again: NOT!! – the whole thing is very complexe, there were good intentions or at least debatable ones, besides, combined or mixed up with debatable-problematic or very problematic or real bad/wrong/rejectable ones…)

F.e. I am a friend of “giving the vernacular some more space in the liturgy” and could live with the Old Liturgy in vernarcular!

[So I have fallen between all chairs now, I fear – here in this forum/blog that is full of fans of latin…!]

And to end and as well to pic up my last point [as a friend or “positiv-tolerator” of the reform of 65 as which I am outing myselfe now!]:

If the only (and as such acceptable or at least positiv-debatable and well-grounded) intention would have been to make it easier for the congreation to follow the Holy Liturgy —

why DIDN`T they just take the wonderfull and theological clear old textes and translated them into the vernacular

BUT did eleminate or totaly change them [best example new “offertory”] — and thereby sytematically eleminate the specific Catholic doctrine and wording and esp. doctrine and wording that does not please the Protestants, other non-Catholics or “modern ears”, f.e. the sacrificial-expiatory character of the Mass, the invocation of the Saints, the Soul, hell, devil, …. ?

Of course you could define and practise a good “ecumenism” – as you told yourselfe, Rev. Fr. Fox, not at the expense of truth.

But eleminating systematically the expression of specific Catholic doctrine as the reformers did is not an example of this sound “ecumenism” but quite the contrary.

Search Fr. Z’s Blog

Search for:

When you shop…

... through Amazon, please, come here first? Enter Amazon through my search box. I'll then get a small percentage of everything you buy. (Pssst - Can't see the search box? Turn off your "ad-blocker" for this site!)

My wish lists

The horse is made ready for the day of battle, but the victory belongs to the LORD.

- Proverbs 21:31

For Easter: another ethereal music CD from the chart-topping nuns…

Support them with prayer and fasting.

CLICK to buy Car Magnets & Stickers

Aedificantium enim unusquisque gladio erat accinctus.

- Nehemiah 4:18

"Let God arise! Let His enemies be scattered! Let those who hate him flee before His Holy Face!"

CLICK and say your Daily Offering!

Let us pray…

Grant unto thy Church, we beseech
Thee, O merciful God, that She, being
gathered together by the Holy Ghost, may
be in no wise troubled by attack from her
foes.
O God, who by sin art offended and by
penance pacified, mercifully regard the
prayers of Thy people making supplication
unto Thee,and turn away the scourges of
Thine anger which we deserve for our sins.
Almighty and Everlasting God, in
whose Hand are the power and the
government of every realm: look down upon
and help the Christian people that the heathen
nations who trust in the fierceness of their
own might may be crushed by the power of
thine Arm. Through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Thy Son, who liveth and reigneth with Thee
in the unity of the Holy Ghost, God, world
without end. R. Amen.

Yes, Fr. Z is taking ads…

... and there will be nearly 1,000,000 page loads this month.

A bit more food for thought…

“Only one sin is nowadays severely punished: the attentive observance of the traditions of our Fathers. For that reason the good ones are thrown out of their places and brought to the desert.”

- Basil of Caesarea - ep. 243

Help Monks in Wyoming, Fr. Z, and get great coffee too!

Food For Thought

“The legalization of the termination of pregnancy is none other than the authorization given to an adult, with the approval of an established law, to take the lives of children yet unborn and thus incapable of defending themselves. It is difficult to imagine a more unjust situation, and it is very difficult to speak of obsession in a matter such as this, where we are dealing with a fundamental imperative of every good conscience — the defense of the right to life of an innocent and defenseless human being.”

- St. John Paul II

PLEASE RESPOND. Pretty pleeeease?

Should the US Bishops have us return to obligatory "meatless Fridays" during the whole year and not just during Lent?

Because you don’t know when you are going to need to move fast or get along without the supermarket…

Identity theft is a serious problem that you do NOT want to have. I use Lifelock.

And for your cybersecurity…

Wyoming Catholic College!

A great place in Rome…

More food for thought:

“I expect to die in bed, my successor will die in prison and his successor will die a martyr in the public square. His successor will pick up the shards of a ruined society and slowly help rebuild civilization, as the church has done so often in human history.”

Check out the Cardinal Newman Society feed!

Be a “Zed-Head”!

Fr. Z’s stuff is everywhere

More food for thought…

"All laws which are repugnant to the Constitution are null and void."

- Marbury v. Madison, 5 U.S. 137, 176

Even More Food For Thought

"Men by their constitutions are naturally divided into two parties:
1. Those who fear and distrust the people, and wish to draw all powers from them into the hands of the higher classes.
2. Those who identify themselves with the people, have confidence in them, cherish and consider them as the most honest and safe, although not the most wise depositary of the public interests."

To set up a recurring, monthly donation (even a small one) go to the bottom of this blog and look for the drop down menu! Some donations also come through Chase/Manhattan (if you don't like PayPal).

I remember benefactors in my prayers and periodically say Mass for your intention.

I invite you to subscribe to a monthly donation.

Will you help? Go to the bottom of the page. So far, new subscribers for MARCH - TZ

Additional Food For Thought

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

- Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

Fathers, you don’t know who might show up! It could be a “big fish” of one sort or other…

And... GO TO CONFESSION!

Leave Voice Mail for Fr. Z

Nota bene: I do not answer these numbers or this Skype address. You won't get me "live". I check for messages regularly.

Help the Sisters. They have a building project. Get great soap (gifts, etc.) while helping REAL nuns!

Food For Thought

“Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites. . . . Society cannot exist unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.”

Archives

ENTRY CALENDAR

Do you use my blog often? Is it helpful to you?

If so, please consider subscribing to send a monthly donation. That way I have steady income I can plan on, and you wind up regularly on my list of benefactors for whom I pray and for whom I periodically say Holy Mass.

Some options

The opinions expressed on this blog do not necessarily reflect the positions of any of the Church's entities with which I am involved. They are my own.