HANG TIME HEADQUARTERS — Allen Iverson is a lock, a no-brainer, an absolute shoo-in for a spot in the Naismith Hall o Fame when he becomes eligible. Tracy McGrady, on the other hand, might have to wait a while to see if he gets the call.

While the cases for and against both Iverson and McGrady seem pretty clear-cut, there are other current players whose Hall of Fame futures require much more examination, an endeavor we were glad to undertake on Episode 130 of the Hang Time Podcast. Superstars like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are also locks for Springfield. But what about players like Chauncey Billups, who owns a Finals MVP and stellar career numbers but spent the early part of his career bouncing around the league?

What do we do with Grant Hill and Glen Rice, guys with Hall of Fame credentials dating back to their championship college careers, but come with an asterisk (injuries cost Hill some of his best years and Rice won a title and was a multiple time All-Star but was never what you would call a true superstar during his NBA career)?

And what of Robert Horry, a man with more championship rings (7) than Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Shaquille O’Neal and plenty of the other luminaries who piled up both the individual and team honors necessary for a place in the Hall of Fame. Surely there has to be a place in Springfield for a player who was an integral part of seven different championship teams, shouldn’t there be?

We dive in on all that and a whole lot more on Episode 130 of the Hang Time Podcast, The Hall of Fame Debate …

87 Comments

I think Robert Horry is the best role player of his generation. He definitely deserves and SHOULD be a hall of famer! Forget stats and #’s big time players put out. It’s those able to get to the finish line first wins and this guy knows all about that!

A.I – Yes
T-Mac- Yes
Horry-No
Bulliups – Yes
Rice-Yes
Hill- No
Horry had to make shots he spent most of his team on the bench/bandwagoning
T-Mac was just an unstoppable force when it came down to scoring never really had help but was a great player
Hill i don’t think wanted a ring he would have pulled a r horry if he really wanted one.

why are so many people trying to leave tmac out of the hall? here’s a stat that should change some minds..t Mac scored more combined points from 2000 to 2005 then any other player…That gets a yes from me

Horry’s 7 rings means absolutely nothing. Tmac and AI should definitely be in the HOF. There are a number of players that did not get a ring and still got into the HOF. The only name that I remember at the moment is Charles Barkley.

Players playing now who I know will definitely get in. *FB means First Ballot (In my opinion of course)

Kobe Bryant *FB
Dirk Nowitzki *FB (A little biased because I’m a Mavs fan but if not a First Ballot, he is definitely getting in of course.)
Ray Allen
LeBron James *FB
Tim Duncan *FB (One of the best big men of all time, I hate the day he leaves basketball)
Paul Pierce
Kevin Garnett *FB
Jason Kidd (when he is done coaching he’ll get in off his career alone)
Steve Nash
Kevin Durant (Still has a lot of career to go and some more scoring titles and a few championships and he’ll be *FB)
Allen Iverson (Not first Ballot but will get in)
Dwyane Wade
Carmello Anthony (Although I want more from him before I can say true HOF)
Tony Parker
Manu Ginobli
Dwight Howard (Although I think he is overrated his dominance cant be denied)

Guys that will maybe make it in but might be a while.
Tracy McGrady
Chris Bosh
Pau Gasol (I don’t know about him though, I think far down the road he’ll get in)
Vince Carter ( He’ll suffer the same problems Dominique Wilkins suffer from trying to get into the HOF)
Grant Hill (Might be a long shot but his professionalism and hard work as a player and team mate not to mention 7 All-star trips will get him in.)

It is amazing that all the NBA purist believe that basketball is a team sport, but yet ‘McGrady’ never made it out of the first round…not the teams he was on, or Iverson never won a ring…the team had nothing to do with that. Iverson is first ballot HOF, no question, McGrady will make it after hefty deliberation, and when a guy wins 7 rings and we still have to debate his eligibility, something is wrong. The HOF is not just for big name players, some second & third tier players deserve a look.
I do agree grant hill would be a hard sell, and Chauncey is second ballot.

AI: yes
T-Mac: yes, if bernard king just got in, then T-mac deserves to get in
Chauncey: Maybe, im not a big fan of his but he probably will get in
Hill: Yes
Rice: Probably not, injuries
Horry: Yes, the rings dont lie
Yao Ming: Probably not
Vince Carter: Yes, the guy is the best dunker of all time (not to mention a great scorer and clutch player too)

if Bernard King is in the HOF, there’s no reason that T-Mac shouldn’t be. If Dominique Wilkins is in the Hall of Fame, there’s no reason that T-Mac shouldn’t be. Numbers and awards don’t lie. Not to mention he was the most exciting player to watch for almost a decade. I still cant figure out why people are even questioning whether or not Tracy should be inducted.

meh. grant hill : no
glen rice : no
if you give an hall of fame spot to every guy who ALMOST done something big, give it to everybody. sorry. i love Tmac, grant hill, rice, but no, they are not hall of famers. (my opinion)
carmelo anthony is one of them too, no way he is a hall of famer, but we will have this debate again right ?
Iverson CHANGED things (for people of his size)- no brainer indeed, hall of fame locked

Iverson- YES OF COURSE
McGrady- OH YES!
^ these two clearly were 1st-tier type of superstars for the MAJORITY of their career. Plus, they impacted the game beyond America more than those guys at the bottom.. Their sneakers were hot commodities too! ; )

Horry- just got lucky 7 times. so NO!
Billups- hmmmmm. no.
Hill- 90% of his career was average to below average, so no!
Rice- gotta eat more rice. NO!

Robbert horry has the rings but he’s going to get snubbed because he wasnt a superstar he was a role player but deff made some clutch shots threw his career deff came threw 4 my lakers!! # Lakers 4life

All you who think billups wont make it in are complete idiots! So explain to me how one of the best leaders and one of the most respected dudes in the game along with finals mvp 2 finals appearances 6 straight conference finals wouldnt make it not to mention when he went to denver he instantly made the better and detroit feel to its knees!

T-Mac Is A Definite yes.. He may have not won a round in the playoffs but if u look at his stats in the playoffs he always elevated his play. Being the best on the team that falls on your shoulder getting the blame but i would understand if his level of play was the same as the regular season but it always got better

Fran, such shoddy research. Isiah Thomas didn’t get a 40-stitch cut. It was 15 stitches. The external stitching (which brought the total to 40) was cosmetic, so his ‘pretty face’ wouldn’t be forever scarred. 15 was all that was necessary to stop the bleeding and seal the wound.

Nobody remembers that Laimbeer had dished a vicious elbow of his own, earlier in the same game, on John Stockton, giving him a gash near the eye that required FOUR stitches to close. If anything, Malone’s shot on Thomas was retaliation by Jerry Sloan to show the Pistons that the Jazz would not be bullied.

We are talking about HOF players, those are players would dominate the league for some years, players who were head and shoulders above the rest of the players in the league, not just players who won rings, you have to have the total package to be in the HOF, Iverson, T-mac, Hill is HOF, Billups, Horry, Rice, they were nice, just not HOF

Since when has rings = HOF? Stupidest thing i’ve heard. Hey showtime, should adam morrison be in the HOF? He’s got rings…. maybe induct Sasha Vujavic while you’re at it too! Heard Brian Scalibrine is a first ballot! Rings don’t mean as much IMO as personal impact. Which is why AI makes it, TMAC makes it (might have to wait tho) and i think Grant Hill makes it.

Since when has rings = HOF? Stupidest thing i’ve heard. Hey showtime, should adam morrison be in the HOF? He’s got rings…. maybe induct Sasha Vujavic while you’re at it too! Heard Brian Scalibrine is a first ballot! Rings don’t mean as much IMO as personal impact. Which is why

T- Mac for sure. Compared to Kobe? 7 All Stars and Two time scorer? Stats say alot because its what history can keep to say about you. You tell me who else can score like that on the Spurs by their selves? No one can. Def HOF

It’s completely subjective. The main factors are: how much you value individual performance vs how good the team(s) you played for. I personally think it should be 90% based on individual since the team is essentially luck based. Secondly, whether injuries should take away from a player’s eligibility and therefore what you define as consistency. Ie: should a guy who won a championship and got 1 finals mvp be HOF bound but a guy who average 25ppg for 15 years with no championships etc not be eiligible?

I think the HOF should be reserved for the best of the best, but they’ve let a few people in who shouldn’t be there in my opinion. Horry will get in, but I don’t think he should. Out of that bunch, AI, TMac and Grant Hill deserve a spot.

T-Mac and Grant Hill should be inducted eventually, especially Grant Hill. Glen Rice won’t be inducted any time soon although he deserves a shot only because he was a great College player and was a top 15 player in the NBA at his best. Chauncey will be inducted eventually but will not be a lock in candidate. And Robert Horry, I’d prefer if they inducted Mitch Richmond instead of him with all due respect. One of the most underrated player I’ve ever seen and his scoring ability was phenomenal.

For me, being in the hall of fame is about individual greatness, not about consistently being in a Championship team, because – let’s be honest, that’s 80% luck. The second thing is consistency and whether you hold injury against a player – again, largely out of their control.
Furthermore, it should be a collection of the best players, if you overcrowd the hall of fame, it loses it’s significance

A.I. is a lock for me, but as for T-Mac I wouldn’t be surprised if he had to wait a little bit before actually getting in. I think Chauncey & Grant both deserve to be in. Winning a Finals MVP puts you in great company, and is the holy grail of honors for an NBA player IMO. Grant lost a lot of good years to injury but still became a productive role player & mentor after his injury issues. I think he definitely gets in but more so out of respect rather than his numbers. Same with Horry. He was a key rotational guy for each of those 7 rings & that should not be ignored.

Can’t believe people are saying no to Grant Hill. He was mindblowing in the 90s up until he got injured. One of the best to ever play. He was one of the faces of the game and a true professional. Still had a respectable career as a defender later on too.

Allen Iverson should go into the hall of fame, during his peak years he was hands down the best scorer in the game, led the sixers to the finals and won game 1 basically by himself. Great career, too bad about the way it ended but still a HOF career.
T Mac I do not believe should make it, he was basically irrelevant the last 5 years of his career, if you are a Hall of Fame player you find a way to at least get your team to a finals like AI did. Mcgrady couldn’t and he probably had more around him.
Grant Hill no, great comeback story after all the injuries but not good enough to make up for no championships and all the injuries,if he had been able to play he would be a lock for the Hall.
Billups should get in eventually But not first ballot, Pistons had a great run and he was a major part of it. The other one from that championship I think that should get in eventually is Ben Wallace, he was the best defensive center in the league for a long time and that’s with him being only 6’9″. 4 time defensive player of the year, not first ballot but he deserves consideration.
Glen Rice? If Mcgrady can’t get in, Rice surely shouldn’t. Mcgrady was a much better player than Rice.
Robert Horry would get in if they had a spot for great role players on championship teams, but that’s not really what the Hall is about in my opinion. sorry Rob, great role player but never the key piece to a championship team.

How could anyone say that Grant Hill is not going to be in the HOF? 7 time all star, 5 time all NBA (4 second teams and 1 first), had seven seasons where he averaged more than 19.7ppg, 1996 Olympic gold medal, co-Rookie of the Year, 2x NCAA champion, 3x sportsman of the year, and had insane seasons where he averaged about 20-10-7 and 21-9-7. He also played over 1000 NBA games in his career, and he did this while suffering from injuries for years. He is the EPITOME of hard work, persistence, and good character. The ONLY thing that his career did not have in it was an NBA championship. Other than that, he was as perfect of a player on the court and off the court that you can get.

The only two that are complete locks are Iverson and Hill, and Hill is ahead of Iverson.

Why is everybody forgetting about Grant Hill? Everybody puts him in a lesser category because he didn’t take his money and run, but because he kept fighting to play the game. No it wasn’t at the same level, but still a top player on any team. But lets look at his work as a whole… 1994 ACC Player of the Year, a two-time NCAA All-American, and a two-time NCAA champion. As a professional he was the 1995 NBA co-Rookie of the Year, and was a seven-time NBA All-Star, five-time All-NBA selection, and three-time winner of the NBA Sportsmanship Award (more than any other player I believe). As an Olympian he was a Gold Medalist and captain of a team that included some of the greatest talents. In his early years in the league magazines labeled Grant as the Saviour of Basketball and the NBA. He was the first rookie to lead the league in All-Star voting, and repeated this again later in his career.

i agreed with you pal.
Sad to see so many people overlooked Grant Hill… i believed none in the list lasted 20yrs in the nba.. multiple surgeries and a near death encounter becoz of surgery.. and came back as a great defender and at age near 40.. he still could still defend kobe when he was with the suns

HOF is for legends who put in efforts and sarcrifices for the game of basketcall.. not great players who piled up numbers in the commercialized NBA..in my personal opionion.. Grant Hill deserved more than anybody in the list.. and i think those in the list would agree with me too.

100% agree with this. The Sportsmanship awards and the way Grant Hill never gave up in the face of adversity are more significant to me and are a better example to players and fans than cheap-shot Rob’s rings.

It really is a tough question. But I don’t think HOF should be thrown out like lollipops.
Lets get the obvious out of the way Iverson is in and Grant HIll is out.
I love T mac but he can’t be counted in. He was one of the great players, but a HOFer must have a winning charisma. Iverson was able to push a mediocre team to the Finals. Tmac had another all star on his teams (Yao and Vince) and still couldn’t get past first round and maybe without injury he could have, but we can’t live in what if worlds.
Horry, as much as it kills me, should not be in. Yes he is a big shot, and teams wouldn’t have won without him, but he too lacks a wow factor a HOF needs. Just putting him in because of his clutch shots does injustice to other HOFers.
Billups, a tough one. A finals MVP, has a ring and had a couple of great years. But just 2 great years out of over 15 years make him a hall of famer. Again, maybe without his injury, he would undoubtedly been a HOFer, but sadly I don’t think he should be either.

I firmly believe that a good measure of a player’s HOF credentials is the overall opinion that they were “one of the greatest of all time at…” when it comes to the game. For example: T-Mac and AI are both equally a pair of the greatest scorers the league has seen in the past twenty years.Winning championships can be a credential for a player, but it shouldn’t be the only reason for a player to be inducted. Winning championships IS the honor, but how you win those championships can aid in determining HOF worthiness. Robert Horry is a straight up winner, and there’s no way around it. BUT, despite winning rings, he wasn’t one of the best at anything and he won’t be remembered in twenty years for anything other than winning championships.

Totally agree AI and T Mac were scores. But really Horry will not be remembered just for wining. Look through all these posts everyone saying the same thing Horry= clutch. That alone is something to be remembered by. Honestly besides rookie of the year a couple of stellar seasons that’s all Grant has. I say probably no for hall of game for him, AI yes anyone that can drop 43 points in the finals deserves a spot. T Mac yes because in his prime he was unstoppable ask Greg Popavich that.

Im going to say this and leave it alone…IVERSON definitely and had kobe never had the superstar talent around him that he did the only ring he would have would be a wedding band…. superstars today learned from greats like iverson that carried teams for years untill they broke down physically mentally and emotionally, the tmac’s and grant hills never reached true stardom but are surely hof worthy no question statistically and what they brought to their teams make them note worthy of hof horry mr clutch gotta get hof for that tmac iffy had many all=star apearances enough to back a hof selection statistically his stats may be similar to other hof greats is it his fault he didnt have these talented squads around him is that what gets you in hof if thats the case IVERSON carried a team full of bench players and role players to the promised land only to be defeated by a 3 headed monster the same monsters that dominate the league and championship runs of today. lets not be bias because of the old crew we grew to love but many of them wouldnt have gotten as far as they did if they didnt have the same building blocks around them that teams like miami and dallas , lakers spurs have built over the years 3 headed monsters, they existed back in the 80’s and 90’s as well and made some guys in to h0f’s based off of wins and chemistry otherwise some guys like horry wouldnt have been as known today

If the HOF is about having an elite set of players, then they should have a strict set of qualifications for it. Whether its should be based on stats, all-star nominations (which isn’t actually important), awards, rings or impact in promoting basketball globally. It shouldn’t be heavily biased on one’s career in the NBA. Again, it is the Basketball HOF, not the NBA HOF (though NBA IS still the basketball league in the world we admit).

One way is to categorize the awards: The Olympics, NBA, WNBA, NCAA, FIBA, and per continent (impact one player has to make basketball recognizeable in their part of the world). For example, Yao Ming doesn’t have any rings, nor does have the stellar stats in line with the great center’s of the NBA, but he was able to bring in the most populated country into basketball (remember all those years Ming gets #1 all-star votes?!?!). Same goes for teams like Argentina (who’s the first to beat an NBA-roster-USA team in WBC), Spain (once olympic champs), Grant Hill (college) and others that made Basketball a relevant sport not just in the US but all over the globe.

But still, this is an elite company, so putting players like Haddadi (best Iran player, but just sits in the NBA) shouldn’t happen. They should just properly categorize and be strict with the qualifications.

A great team can win championships and the starting 5 all make the HOF???
Okay, Lakers, Spurs, Pistons, Celtics, the Heat.. Where are we going with this???
Okay, we add the individual accolades without mentioning teammates and coaches who sacrificed their careers?
What do you have to do to NOT make the HOF? (Arenas, Amar’e, B. Davis?)
Okay, okay.. Who made David Stern RICH????????
We can start there:

@ Don’t ever…….Thank-you Kei..I could not have said it better. Horry Yes…..7 Rings…He was always a very important role player (More Rings than MJ in regards to going into the HOF-not a better player) 7 Rings must bring you into the HOF. Magic and Jordan always say it’s only about the Rings….I disagree when it comes to the legacy. With a legacy more has to be taken into account.

Its simple if you produced for your team even if it didn’t come up in the box scores your a hall of famer. but only if your team had success, not just rings, but winning seasons and true title contenders

Grant Hill is the best of the bunch as far as talent goes.He was a mix of Pipen and Jordan and Drexler and he had the spark that separates god from mortal.If not for that injurie we would be talking HOF,MWP’s ,Championships and the whole is he better than Jordan thing that’s popular nowadays and I would say yes.He had the height,speed,tenacity,leadership maturity team mentality everything.McGrady is not on his level IMO but he could have been on Iverson’s level easily and that is a glorified ball hog. Hory is a lock Billups is also a great player and he really did lead a championship team to a title.Rice is not there but he did have a great carrier that he should be proud of HOF or not.

I listened to the whole hangtime podcast and they all made good cases… A.I. is a first ballot HOF no doubt. I think T-mac has enough credentials to eventually make it in… during all the talk about t-mac career it was surprising that no one mentioned the 13pts in 35 seconds… I dont think that will ever happen again or at least no time soon. I say the both get in the HOF.

Iverson and T-Mac are definitely in ( and Vince Carter too ) I grew up watching basketball in the early 2000s and they were the face of the NBA for about 5 years.. everyone had their shoes, posters, jerseys…. they were superstars on and off the court. Forget their lack of playoff success.. they were one man shows… having to carry the load night in and night out. No one wins in this league without a good sidekick or at least a handful of good roleplayers… ( Detroit, Mavs, etc ). Can’t blame them for the lack of help.. why do you think Lebron jumped ship? He would’ve never ever won a ring in Cleveland with that team.

A healthy Hill would’ve been consider a top 10 player of all time.. a guy that could’ve easily averaged 28/10/8 while shooting 50%. He truey got robbed and I believe he is a HOF player.

Horry, while a great role player and clutch shooter, is more of a “right place at the right time” type of situation… definitely not HOF in my opinion. Glen Rice definitely not as he only had 1 HOF worthy season.

AI is in. Best 6-footer to lace up. T-Mac is in, 7 time allstar. Horry is in, 7 rings and killer in the clutch. Billups in, good numbers, great finals series, overcame tricky start to career. No Rice or Hill, just didn’t happen for them.

It didn’t happen for Hill? You said that T-Mac is in coz he’s a 7 time all star. You need to learn a bit more about Grant Hill…
Not only was Grant Hill a 7 time all star, he made history in his rookie season by becoming the first rookie ever to lead the all-star voting. In his second season he also topped the all-star voting – this was the season that Jordan returned after his first time and Hill still beat him in the voting.
Some of his other accomplishments – ACC Player of the Year, 2 time NCAA All American, 2 time NCAA Champion, shared Rookie of the Year with J-Kidd, 7 time All-Star, 5 time All-NBA, 3 time winner of the NBA Sportsmanship award. He was the face of the NBA before he got injured – think somewhere between Scottie Pippen & Lebron James – he was that good. Had he not got injured we’d be putting him in the same conversation as Jordan.
He was the man. Seriously check out any videos of his younger years.
And from the same era while you’re at it check out Penny Hardaway – same story with him, injuries ruined his career but he was unbelievabe. Jordan once said that he was the most intelligent player that he’d ever played against, and Lebron has said that he was his favourite player growing up.
Check the 2 of them out…

If Billups gets n b4 T Mac that would be totally wrong. All Billups had over T Mac is leadership,ring,and finals MVP. He also had more help of course he played 4 Det an somewhat historic franchise that’s hype. We don’t even have too mention Iverson that’s automatic!

What with everyone still underestimating Ray Allen? Obviously ya’ll didn’t watch his days in the Bucks and Sonics when he was one of the best ALL AROUND PLAYERS, not just a shooter. People confuse him as being just a shooter because how easy he makes it look. Ray took his team to the conference finals as Luke Ridnour/ Earl Watson as his PG. Now if you’re gonna say Ray was just a star and not the superstar he actually was, then we should have the same case for KG and Paul Pierce since they only archieved, if not less, then what Ray did prior to the Celtics. I will also say this, Ray was still a Superstar in those Celtic years, he just wasn’t utilized the way he could have been and should have been, you can even hear it from Ray himself as to saying only his teammates and him know what he’s capable of, and I must say the opposing team. In that being said, he IS still a Star at a ripe age of 38 and obviously still the best, if not top 3 clutch player the game has today, and yes clutch player and not just a shooter, Ray Allen always turns it up in the 4th quarter. ALL PRAISE JESUS SHUTTLESWORTH, still one of the most underrated players ever.

It is underestimating because obviously you guys don’t have knowledge of his days in the Bucks and Sonics ( even to an extend, with the Heat ) but he excels at being a volume SCORER, he just makes shooting look second nature that people get deluded into thinking he’s just a shooter

Good points with regards to Glen Rice and Grant Hill.
Great college cagers, came up short in Pro league.
Between the 2, I’ll pick Hill to be in.
On the other hand, its kinda funny, Sekou is questioning Billups,
a more HOF’er bound in my opinion than T-Mac.

I agree with your picks except Horry.
Cant ignore 7 rings and famously being one of the most consistent clutch players the league has seen especially when it counts Playoffs… Earned the name big shot Rob.

Your Crazy. TMAC is a HUGE NO, to be in the HOF you need playoff success, PERIOD.
RICE – YES because he was a multiple all star, has a RING with the Lakers (he was a key part of that team)
HORRY – YES, BIG YES. Hes a 7 time champ and on each of those teams, he was an integral part. He deserves it.
Grant HILL – Yes/NO, he was probably a top3 player in 1-2 seasons. However, injuries have hampred his career.
BILLUPS – YES, no question.

Okay enough with the “T-mac never made it out of the first round” okay?
Just look at his stats and beyond that look at the teams he had and how close he made it to coming out of the first round

30 PPG, 6 APG, 6 RPG, 1 SPG and 1BPG in the playoffs
Yes it was only for the first round, but his team was the lower seed EVERY SINGLE TIME, okay?

Not once was he on a team with home court advantage
Also, he almost won with his sub-par 8th seeded team against a 1st seeded team once. Lost by a hair carrying his team.

In fact, the statement “T-mac WON every playoff series where his team was the higher seed” is a TRUE Statement
Last season when he was a benchwarmer for the spurs, that was the only time his team had home court advantage in the first round and they won.

So there you have it. I have to make the best case for my childhood favorite player. Get this guy into the HoF please.

I think T-Mac and GH 33 are similar – Hill was an 8th time all-star – olympian – and his credentials might pull him off – if he just retired early – it will be no doubt – people would say he is a hall of famer – these past few years – he played like mediocre player – however, at age 40 – he can play – I think that’s what you called talent – I give him 50 percent getting in the hall of fame

What! Horry..No??? Did you not know Horry comes out to play only the last 3 months and still execute even without the ball. 7 rings by my count… you better pick up a magazine and read or something, they don’t call him Bigshot Bob for nothing now.