It's not something I'm proud of, but the fact is that both my parents and all my grandparents were collaborators [...]

I suppose it's called rolling with the times. If the Germans had arrived in the UK, I guess much of the same would have happened here too, regardless of what that drunk Churchill said.

I think what happened during the occupation of the Channel Islands shows what would have happened if Britain would have been conquered: some collaborated, some resisted and most people tried to get on with their lives, exactly what happened in occupied Europe.

Of course, in hindsight things look different than when you're in it. In 1940 few people expected that the Nazi's would be beaten eventually.

It's not something I'm proud of, but the fact is that both my parents and all my grandparents were collaborators [...]

I suppose it's called rolling with the times. If the Germans had arrived in the UK, I guess much of the same would have happened here too, regardless of what that drunk Churchill said.

I think what happened during the occupation of the Channel Islands shows what would have happened if Britain would have been conquered: some collaborated, some resisted and most people tried to get on with their lives, exactly what happened in occupied Europe.

Of course, in hindsight things look different than when you're in it. In 1940 few people expected that the Nazi's would be beaten eventually.

regards,Hein

I can't recall the exact phrase, or be bothered to look it up but:

History is written by the victor.

"If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear...." Jacqui Smith - Ex-Home Secretary (and many other misguided fools)"I fear having to prove I have nothing to hide." Josco

"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves".William Pitt, 1783

Shaw's Principle: "Build a system that even a fool can use, and only a fool will want to use it."

[SNIP]I think what happened during the occupation of the Channel Islands shows what would have happened if Britain would have been conquered: some collaborated, some resisted and most people tried to get on with their lives, exactly what happened in occupied Europe.

[SNIP]

This old chestnut often seems to come up.I'm less than convinced. The fact that the inhabitants of the Channel Islands have a different ancestry/language from the rest of the UK is always ignored. They may have seen it as one Colonial power replacing another.As another difference all the local men were shipped out, and there was a very high proportion of occupying Germans, this could not be replicated for the whole of the UK.

"Love, friendship, loyalty, kindness - these are all emotions which we applaud, emotions which have been immortialized in the bad couplets of Hallmark Cards and in the verses (I don't dare call it poetry) of Leonard Nimoy." - Stephen King

This old chestnut often seems to come up.I'm less than convinced. The fact that the inhabitants of the Channel Islands have a different ancestry/language from the rest of the UK is always ignored. They may have seen it as one Colonial power replacing another.As another difference all the local men were shipped out, and there was a very high proportion of occupying Germans, this could not be replicated for the whole of the UK.

I'm not very much into architecture, so it never occurred to me that an architect by the name of Oscar Niemeyer existed. After a brief investigation, it seems clear to me that I shouldn't bother.

Apart from him being ancient, which is obviously an asset when DL-nomination is at stake, the guy is completely uninteresting. Wiki states: "He was a pioneer in the exploration of the constructive possibilities of reinforced concrete." Right.

But it's quite interesting to see how our beloved Latin-American friends tend to disagree with me. Mr. Magno here says that Oscar Niemeyer's days has been counted. ('Debilidade física' is a very eloquent way of describing a body going downhill, isn't it? Would 'debilitating physique' be the correct English equivalent? I'm not too sure of my translational skills here.) Magno disagrees with Oscar's red sympathies, but still considers him to be the most original and prominent artist of the twentieth century.

I think most people missed this rather controversial statement, so I'd like to pose it again in English, which is (for good reasons) a more widely accepted language in this forum than Portuguese.

Apart from him being ancient, which is obviously an asset when DL-nomination is at stake, the guy is completely uninteresting. Wiki states: "He was a pioneer in the exploration of the constructive possibilities of reinforced concrete." Right.

But it's quite interesting to see how our beloved Latin-American friends tend to differ with me. Mr. Magno here says that Oscar Niemeyer's days has been counted.[/quote]
I have to disagree, first of all the DL bases it's participents on
there fame in what they did in life not just there age.
Second the famousness is usually judged by if there
death will hit BBC news or not.

As for Niemeyer's days being counted - I heard that he was well
and still actively working at age 97 so i suppose he couldn't be that
frail. Infact i believe sometime in early 2006 he exspects to finish
another project so he seems to be thinking ahead.

If it weren't for him to be actively working i would
think he would soon be at the top of the bright white
stairs to heaven but so far he has proved otherwise.

Is he really that famous among the public at large though? I bet most people haven't heard of him. Sometimes I wonder about the people put on the Deathlist. Although if he dies before the year is out, I shouldn't really complain.

Talking of obscure Deathlist names, what about Sister Lucia, had anybody heard of her before she was listed.

Actually, yes I'd heard of her before, and I'm not even a Roman Catholic. I don't care about the alleged miracles, but I've always been fascinated by the incredibly well orchestrated mumbo jumbo that comes with them.

The reason I brought this thread back to life was not because I was questioning Niemeyer's fame, he obviously ís well-known throughout the world (as was the late lamented sister Lucia). The point is: I had my doubts about Niemeyer's status as one of the greatest artist of the twentieth century, as claimed by the portuguese-speaking guy. Modern art is not my cup of tea, but designing an incredibly big, new, ugly city somewhere in the jungle does not tickle my senses.