Atrophic Vaginitis - is vaginitis with severe tissue atrophy usually associated with estrogen deficiency. Yes many women get atrophic vaginitis and need to treat that in order to eliminate their BV.

Huh?

Women who get atrophic vaginitis will need to get treatment to treat ... their atrophic vaginitis, obviously. Why do you keep shoehorning BV in there?

And no source I've read about atrophic vaginitis says that it's "severe" atrophy. It just means thinning vaginal skin, period (usu. caused by hormones), and the problems that causes.

You keep talking about thinning vaginal skin, and how that affects the membrane - which is exactly what atrophic vaginitis IS, literally - and you keep insisting that you're not talking about atrophic vaginitis? You are not making any sense.

You are at least the 4th poster lately who is insisting that thinning vaginal skin and hormone-loss has anything to do with BV. It just doesn't. It is a different problem that requires different treatment.

This confusion is obviously very wide-spread and persistent. The fact that some of you have tried (literally) about 50 BV/yeast remedies including prescriptions and have experienced no relief - might be an indication that you might just be barking up the wrong tree.

BV isn't some catch-all term for vague things wrong with the vagina. (That would be "vaginitis." As in "atrophic vaginitis." Wow I'm so sick of typing that!)

Unfortunately, a lot of problems are often mis-diagnosed as BV. We have both anecdotal and clinical evidence of that. So it doesn't hurt to consider other possibilities after a while.

I've made more than enough effort to try and make my point clear. So ... it's out there. As always, judge for yourselves.

You keep saying that thinning vaginal walls causes BV. That is just plain false. It causes atrophic vaginitis, which is not BV, and requires different treatment.

Please look up the word "atrophic" or "atrophy" in the dictionary.

No, I did not say that thinning vaginal walls causes BV. I am saying that the thinning of the vaginal walls 'may' cause BV. And often does. Douching 'may' cause BV. Antibiotics 'may' cause BV. Hormonal imbalance 'may' cause BV. Dehydration 'may' cause BV. Numerous things may cause BV. In fact, if you are unfortunate enough to have numerous of these occurances at the same time, then you have a higher likelihood of developing BV or a yeast infection. Also, I am saying that the thinning of the mucose membrane which is part of the vaginal wall can become thinner for numerous reasons.

Atrophic Vaginitis - is vaginitis with severe tissue atrophy usually associated with estrogen deficiency. Yes many women get atrophic vaginitis and need to treat that in order to eliminate their BV. But I am not talking about that. I am talking about general mucosa health. Mucosa membranes in our reproductive organs, our intestines, our eyes, our sinuses, etc.

Thinning of the walls of the mucosa can happen numerous ways. You took antibiotics. Or you have a hormonal imbalance. Or you haven't had sex in a while. (You don't use it - you lose it.) Or even if you are on antihistamines for your allergies. For example, if you take antihistamines often because of an allergic condition you may have, you will dehydrate all of your mucose membranes. Certain medications like antihistamines or decongestants can interfere with your vaginal moisture. If the mucose membranes become dryer and thinner, or rubbed off, they can not support growth of the lactic acid bacteria. If the mucosa is too depleted, it has a harder time to build up again probiotic colonies, it will take longer. As well, adequate mucose is important for vaginal flushing of pathogens. (I will post something later about mucose membranes, and the incidence of HIV.)

[ There are a variety of medications that can cause vaginal dryness.

Some medications lead to vaginal dryness by altering estrogen levels, while others can directly dry out the mucous membranes. Some types of medications that can lead to vaginal dryness include:

[ Vaginal dryness is an extremely common problem for young women, and the problem only increases with age. Women might notice feminine dryness around their monthly periods with tampon use; after childbirth or while nursing their baby; during times of stress, or after excessive exercise like jogging.

And if you have vaginal dryness and/or compromised vaginal mucosa, this isn't necessarily hormonally driven. It seems that most conditions can be helped, each situation is unique though, and you have to first determine which factor is dehydrating you, irritating you, or causing the inflammation. And you may have to stop taking your other medications, or change them. You may have to change your excercise regimine. You may have to eliminate stress. Stress alone can make a woman extremely dry, so finding a way to deal with stress will eliminate the problem, or at least reduce it.

Thinning of the vaginal skin has a lot to do with everything. And the thinning of the mucosa membranes on that skin. Whether it is vaginally, or intestinally. So the thinning of the vaginal skin may decrease in good bacteria adhesion, which may cause BV, but not necessarily in that order. It can happen the other way around too. (BV causes the lining of the vagina to shed, so you may see some discharge resulting from the 'shedding of the vaginal epithelium', I will post a quote here later for everyone to read when I have time to do this.) Lets say a woman undergoes extreme stress, or radiation therapy, or poor diet, or a gastrointestinal disorder like IBS, or some illness, or lets say gets an infection that requires broad spectrum antibiotics, the mucosal membranes of her body become compromised and thinner. Once the thinning of these layers start, a woman has a larger chance of picking up BV. Because the epithelium feeds the good bacteria with glycogen, which they then turn into lactic acid. As the beneficial bacteria grow and develop colonies on the skin, the skin physically becomes thicker, and healthier. And more moist.. a healthy vagina should always have a bit of clear mucous coming out of it to flush out toxins and bad bacteria. And the thicker mucosa and vaginal walls make it harder for the bad bacteria to adhere.

CanCan,

You keep saying that thinning vaginal walls causes BV. That is just plain false. It causes atrophic vaginitis, which is not BV, and requires different treatment.

Thinning of the vaginal skin has a lot to do with everything. And the thinning of the mucosa membranes on that skin. Whether it is vaginally, or intestinally. So the thinning of the vaginal skin may decrease in good bacteria adhesion, which may cause BV, but not necessarily in that order. It can happen the other way around too. (BV causes the lining of the vagina to shed, so you may see some discharge resulting from the 'shedding of the vaginal epithelium', I will post a quote here later for everyone to read when I have time to do this.) Lets say a woman undergoes extreme stress, or radiation therapy, or poor diet, or a gastrointestinal disorder like IBS, or some illness, or lets say gets an infection that requires broad spectrum antibiotics, the mucosal membranes of her body become compromised and thinner. Once the thinning of these layers start, a woman has a larger chance of picking up BV. Because the epithelium feeds the good bacteria with glycogen, which they then turn into lactic acid. As the beneficial bacteria grow and develop colonies on the skin, the skin physically becomes thicker, and healthier. And more moist.. a healthy vagina should always have a bit of clear mucous coming out of it to flush out toxins and bad bacteria. And the thicker mucosa and vaginal walls make it harder for the bad bacteria to adhere.

Wow, you are starting to do the same research I did. That's how I found my cure or shall I say, figured out my cure.

May I ask - what are you referring to?So the decrease in good bacteria is what causes --> the thinning of the vaginal skin --> which leads to BV?

That's definitely new. May I ask - where do you get that info?

It's my understanding that:

the decrease in good bacteria is what causes --> BV

As far as I know, BV is about bacterial imbalance. I'm not sure what the thinning of the vaginal skin has to do with it.

I thought that the thinning of the vaginal skin/walls can happen because of estrogen-loss (leading to atrophic vaginitis). I've never heard of the thinning happening because of the decrease in good bacteria. How does that happen? I also don't understand how the thinner walls cause BV.

Thinning of the vaginal skin has a lot to do with everything. And the thinning of the mucosa membranes on that skin. Whether it is vaginally, or intestinally. So the thinning of the vaginal skin may decrease in good bacteria adhesion, which may cause BV, but not necessarily in that order. It can happen the other way around too. (BV causes the lining of the vagina to shed, so you may see some discharge resulting from the 'shedding of the vaginal epithelium', I will post a quote here later for everyone to read when I have time to do this.) Lets say a woman undergoes extreme stress, or radiation therapy, or poor diet, or a gastrointestinal disorder like IBS, or some illness, or lets say gets an infection that requires broad spectrum antibiotics, the mucosal membranes of her body become compromised and thinner. Once the thinning of these layers start, a woman has a larger chance of picking up BV. Because the epithelium feeds the good bacteria with glycogen, which they then turn into lactic acid. As the beneficial bacteria grow and develop colonies on the skin, the skin physically becomes thicker, and healthier. And more moist.. a healthy vagina should always have a bit of clear mucous coming out of it to flush out toxins and bad bacteria. And the thicker mucosa and vaginal walls make it harder for the bad bacteria to adhere.

Thanks Lori! It seems to be working so far... I'm just afraid once I stop taking it, it might just come back like everything else i've tried. I really really hope im that 40 percent. Tindamax does like almost a 100% cure for trich thats what it was made for i guess oh and GI tract.

You're welcome, Italianwife. Yeah, you should always take *all* your antibiotics (unless there's a really good reason to stop, and your doctor agrees.) Using antibiotics a little bit here and to relieve symptoms is what causes resistant strains of bacteria!

Thanks Lori! It seems to be working so far... I'm just afraid once I stop taking it, it might just come back like everything else i've tried. I really really hope im that 40 percent. Tindamax does like almost a 100% cure for trich thats what it was made for i guess oh and GI tract.

Mela:I have suffered with B.V. for 4yrs. and I think it all started when I got off Birth Control LO/OVRAL.I know how you feel!I have been doing a lot of research this week and I have come up with a conclusion. <BR>Here it is: <BR>Birth control tricks the body into thinking it is pregnant by using higher doses of estrogen.I have never read the paper that came along with the pack of birth control until this week and here is what it states: <BR> Birth control may deplete or interfere with the absorption or function of the nutrient. Taking these nutrients may help replenish them. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Magnesium* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B1* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B12* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B2* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B3* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR>Vitamin C* <BR> <BR>Zinc* <BR>reduction/prevention—Taking these supplements may help reduce the likelihood and/or severity of a potential side effect caused by the medication. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR> May be Beneficial: Supportive interaction—Taking these supplements may support or otherwise help your medication work better. Folic acid* <BR> <BR> Avoid: Adverse interaction—Avoid these supplements when taking this medication because taking them together may cause undesirable or dangerous results. St. John’s wort* <BR> <BR>Tobacco <BR> <BR> Check: Other—Before taking any of these supplements or eating any of these foods with your medication, read this article in full for details. Calcium <BR> <BR>Copper <BR> <BR>Iron <BR> <BR>Manganese <BR> <BR>Vitamin A <BR>Interactions common to many, if not all.(WHY WAS I NOT TOLD.) <BR>Interactions with Dietary Supplements <BR>Folic acid <BR>Oral contraceptive (OC) use can cause folic acid depletion.1 In a double-blind trial of OC users with cervical dysplasia, supplementation with very large amounts (10 mg per day) of folic acid improved cervical health.2 Women with cervical dysplasia diagnosed while they are taking OCs should consult a doctor. Mega-folate supplementation should not be attempted without a doctor’s supervision, nor is there any reason to believe that folic acid supplementation would help people with cervical cancer. <BR> <BR>Iron <BR>Menstrual blood loss is typically reduced with use of OCs. This can lead to increased iron stores and, presumably, a decreased need for iron in premenopausal women.3 Premenopausal women taking OCs should have their iron levels monitored and talk with their prescribing doctor before using iron-containing supplements. <BR> <BR>Magnesium <BR>Women using OCs were found to have significantly lower serum magnesium levels in a controlled study.4 In a preliminary study, blood levels of magnesium decreased in women taking an OC containing ethinyl estradiol and levonorgestrel.5 Although the importance of this interaction remains somewhat unclear, supplementation with 250–350 mg of magnesium per day is a safe and reasonable supplemental level for most adults. <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR>Oral contraceptives have been associated with vitamin B6 depletion and clinical depression. In a small, double-blind study of women with depression taking OCs, vitamin B6 (20 mg twice per day) improved depression.6 Half of the women in the study showed laboratory evidence of vitamin B6 deficiency. <BR> <BR>Other nutrients <BR>A review of literature suggests that women who use OCs may experience decreased vitamin B1, B2, B3, B12, C, and zinc levels.7 8 9 OC use has been associated with increased absorption of calcium and copper and with increased blood levels of copper and vitamin A.10 11 12 OCs may interfere with manganese absorption.13 The clinical importance of these actions remains unclear <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> Birth control may deplete or interfere with the absorption or function of the nutrient. Taking these nutrients may help replenish them. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Magnesium* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B1* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B12* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B2* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B3* <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR>Vitamin C* <BR> <BR>Zinc* <BR> <BR> May be Beneficial: Side effect reduction/prevention—Taking these supplements may help reduce the likelihood and/or severity of a potential side effect caused by the medication. Folic acid <BR> <BR>Vitamin B6 <BR> <BR> May be Beneficial: Supportive interaction—Taking these supplements may support or otherwise help your medication work better. Folic acid* <BR>The people that produce birth control know that their products are unhealthy for women but they continue to profit off of us. <BR>Birth control causes an estrogen dominance and that can lead to many horrible side effects that we have INCLUDING CERVICAL DYSPLASIA. <BR>Here is something else that might help: <BR>http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym..._dominance.html <BR> <BR>http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym..._dominance.html <BR> <BR>http://www.natureshealthypeople.com/explai..._dominance.html <BR> <BR>http://www.energeticnutrition.com/vitalzym/myomin.html <BR> <BR>http://www.ovarian-cysts-pcos.com/progesterone-cream.html <BR> <BR>http://www.natural-progesterone-advisory-network.com/symptoms-of-estrogen-domina nce.php://http://www.natural-progesterone-adv...-domina nce.php <BR> <BR>http://www.womentowomen.com/symptoms.asp <BR> <BR>Birth control throws your body off track(hormonal imbalance) so we need to balance the body and put those missing minerals back in our system.Also B.V occurs when the acidity of the vagina changes.Notice how birth control depletes all of the things our body needs to stay acidic.Coincidence maybe? I THINK NOT AND I AM PISSED MY DOCTOR DID NOT TELLL ME ABOUT ALL OF THIS BEFORE HAND.Thank God I can read and do my own research.I just hate it's taken 4yrs. to piece everything together.I have been B.V. free for a week and a half.I just need to stick to the program and pray that the B.V. isn't smart enough to catch on to my program and become super B.V. <BR>Sorry this is so long but it might help! <BR> <BR> <BR>

Neverending:Did you ever whip this BV thing with vitamin supplements? Please say yes, please say yes. I didn't feel like reading through 185 more pages to find the answer.

Hey guys! I was wondering who has tried Tinamax and what the outcome was for you? I read that there is like 40% cure rate? thats crazy low and my doctor was adamant about me trying it first....? Today is my second- out of five days and I havent noticed like a difference yet. It leaves a really bad metallic taste in my mouth for a few hours after i take it, its disgusting.

Tindamax is a new-ish drug. I've never taken it, but as far as I know, it's in the same class as flagyl, and also has similar side effects (metallic taste, don't mix with alcohol, etc.) The only advantage I can see so far for taking Tindamax is that you only need to take it for 5 days vs. 7 for flagyl.

I also don't understand why this is a good drug for BV - when the cure rate on its own site is below 40%.

This was my first realy Gyno visit because I just got insurance. Also has anyone ever tried Loestrin 24 fe? It's a free sample of birth control my doctor gave me, I've never used BC before and I'm afraid of the side effects, ive heard alot of bad stories about BC. He also recommended I use rephresh for symptoms, does that work for anyone?

It's basically a lubricant that's designed to be applied deep in the vagina (comes in an applicator), and stay up there for up to 3 days. It has the right pH, so it's supposed to help get your vagina back to a healthy pH.

A lot of women in here have tried it, but I think the verdict on Rephresh is that it doesn't help, but it doesn't hurt. (Pretty expensive, though. I think it's $20+ for 4 applications.)

Personally, I was very excited about Rephresh, because it's an OTC product designed for people with BV issues, among other things. It just seemed like someone is paying attention to our problem. Too bad it doesn't really do anything. And you get so little product for so much money, and I don't like the way the applicator works. (It's impossible to squeeze out all of the product.)

Other than that, though, I do like the product. If I ever have dryness issues, I would use it again. (Or Replens, made by the same company.)

But I think the reason the product doesn't really do anything is because (as I've said recently) - manually acidifying the vagina doesn't really accomplish anything. Low pH is a symptom of BV (and other problems), but not the cause.

Getting your period raises your pH, having unprotected sex raises your pH - but these are very normal events, and you can't avoid them forever. In my opinion, a healthy vagina should be able to bounce back without getting an infection after something normal happens. The presence of good bacteria is what keeps your vagina acidic, so if you have the good bacteria, they will get your vagina back down to a healthy pH, after sex or menses.

So I think focusing on simply changing the pH on the vagina with outside means is not the right approach, and historically, just hasn't worked. I don't think it hurts to simply use a lubricant with the right pH (like Rephresh), but don't expect much more.

Hey guys! I was wondering who has tried Tinamax and what the outcome was for you? I read that there is like 40% cure rate? thats crazy low and my doctor was adamant about me trying it first....? Today is my second- out of five days and I havent noticed like a difference yet. It leaves a really bad metallic taste in my mouth for a few hours after i take it, its disgusting. This was my first realy Gyno visit because I just got insurance. Also has anyone ever tried Loestrin 24 fe? It's a free sample of birth control my doctor gave me, I've never used BC before and I'm afraid of the side effects, ive heard alot of bad stories about BC. He also recommended I use rephresh for symptoms, does that work for anyone?

hi mg86...yeah...when i say i feel better, there isn't that much discharge as before. when i say before i mean before i took fem d. before the discharge would just freaking drip...drip...and then drip some more...all day long. it wouldn't come out like a period but it would just drip all day and it's milky looking, but it would also get thick, white, and gooey too. i guess it was the hormones in my body...ya know with period thing and all that. i also had like an itch and an "uncomfortable" feeling. i can't really describe it but i know i wasn't feeling normal. how long did you take flagyl? mg? times per day? in january i took flagyl for 10 days, 3 times a day, 500mg. when i was finished i was told to go back to the dr and get retested with the "affirm" and it was gone but i knew something wasn't right cause i still had discharge...and then 3-4 weeks later it came back. i'm thinking maybe cause i wasn't taking fem d. i found this forum about 2 weeks ago and i'm so grateful!!! due to this forum i found out about fem d and bought it the next day...45 min drive but worth it.i'm wondering...have you been tested to confirm bv? you should ....my opinion anyways. i've heard that trich and chlamydia looks like bv. not trying to scare you hun, but just thought i'd let you know. i'm keeping my fingers crossed for us....we will bet this!!

Oops, I messed up the last one. I never did read the directions on how to reply or use these blogs; I was too excited about getting in my two cents. I wonder how many of the posters have the HPV issue. I was diagnosed seventeen years ago, so young. I'd been told it went away until many years later, symptoms again. I was so confused until I found my current GYN who said our bodies never completely get rid of the virus, only suppress it, sometimes it does such a good job of suppression that it's undetectable on their tests. SO many women are carrying it and never even know, scary. I have a thick vaginal discharge.....like the white stuff that sticks to the edge of the egg yolk when you crack it - not the clear egg white. You know what I mean, right? Every once in a while, I'll get an itch and when I check, there it is hanging out at the opening to my va-jay-jay. Nurse practicioner says slight infection when she looks under the microscope and gives me prescription for BV treatment. Culture says NOTHING abnormal, no bacteria or anything. WTF? It doesn't smell either, just gets thick and sometimes itches. I really think this is just vaginitis related to an STD, not bacteria. With so many of us scratching our heads and the virus being SO common and often undetectable.....maybe that's why some of us can't get any relief. This virus is rearing its ugly head, reminding us it's still there. HPV sucks.

I haven't been to the doctor in almost a year, but I have been diagnosed more than once with BV. Sometimes though he would say it looked like a yeast infection, but it never tested for one. Actually, when this first happened I thought it was a yeast infection (I think my BV was brought on by a long course of antibiotics). I took Diflucan a few times and did some Monistat as well. When it never went away and even got worse, this is when I went to the doctor and was diagnosed with BV.

I have had this problem (whatever it is, LOL) for a little over a year and a half. I am not sure exactly what caused it. It all started in the spring/summer 2006. I was taking antibiotics for an ear infection, and I got a classic yeast infection. This was my first infection ever. It went away fine, but several months later I got a pap test that came back positive for HPV. It was the cancerous strain so I had to do that thing where they freeze the cells, cryo something or other. Everything was fine for a few months until I got an infection again. I thought it was a yeast infection because I was on antibiotics again, but coincidentally I also had a new sex partner. We were both treated numerous times and both tested for STDs. I am no longer with that person and haven't had sex in 6 months so I am having a hard time narrowing down what the root problem is!!

This is probably a stupid question but...soo sad...what do you mean when you say "feel better"..like do you still have discharge, just not as much?

has anyone used those vaginal ph testing kits? if so were the results accurate?

I feel like whatever I have is coming back...even after taking flagyl, femd, no sex or anything. There isn't itching, and no odor that I notice like through my clothes, no discharge on the underwear, but if I wipe the outer area with my finger there is discharge. Its not like gobs and gobs (which I have had before) - but it seems excessive..and not to be gross but I literally smell it obsessively..it does have a slight odor...but like I said last night I never did this before I had BV so maybe it is the normal smell??

I am just frustrated. I thought that the femd and flagyl would knock this thing out (esp since I haven't taken flagyl in so long) - but now I'm not so sure. I don't know what to try next. Like people have been saying boric acid/tto is not a cure, and what I want is to pinpoint this problem and get rid of it.

i am posting a lot too here lately.

this last time i was on flagyl was when i started the femD. To be quite honest, I did not feel 100% completely normal for like a month. The gyno I went to just told me it could take a long time to feel normal again. Sometimes I still don't feel normal. Sounds like a lot of the major symptoms are gone.....

btw, i think we sweat in the outer areas.....maybe that's it? i think we're almost supposed to be a little moist in that general region. what do i know though!

This is probably a stupid question but...soo sad...what do you mean when you say "feel better"..like do you still have discharge, just not as much?

has anyone used those vaginal ph testing kits? if so were the results accurate?

I feel like whatever I have is coming back...even after taking flagyl, femd, no sex or anything. There isn't itching, and no odor that I notice like through my clothes, no discharge on the underwear, but if I wipe the outer area with my finger there is discharge. Its not like gobs and gobs (which I have had before) - but it seems excessive..and not to be gross but I literally smell it obsessively..it does have a slight odor...but like I said last night I never did this before I had BV so maybe it is the normal smell??

I am just frustrated. I thought that the femd and flagyl would knock this thing out (esp since I haven't taken flagyl in so long) - but now I'm not so sure. I don't know what to try next. Like people have been saying boric acid/tto is not a cure, and what I want is to pinpoint this problem and get rid of it.

hi lori...thanks for your reply! i do feel alot better with the fem d...just ordered 2 more from iherb, but i don't want to jinx myself!!! tooo early to tell, but again, i haven't felt this good in months. i will keep everyone updated on my condition while and after flagyl...sooo sad

thanks for your advice hun...i will wait then ...but actually i can't wait cause it's been toooo long! i feel like a "bad girl" cause i want to have sex all the time. i guess when you can't have or do something you crave it more....lol!

sooo sad

You're telling me! I practically hump my BF's leg during infections/period. It sucks!!! I know what you mean!!! I don't even know how you have gone 10 months!!! That's crazy. I think the longest we ever went was 1 month and it was NOT good for our relationship.

Cheers to s e x!

Good luck. I hope the flagyl + FemD works for you.....it has worked for me.

was wondering....after your treatment (while taking fem d, of course) how long did you wait to have sex again? it's been 10 months and it's pretty bad when you can't even have sex with your boyfriend!!! a little update on me...gonna start flagyl today, been taking fem d for about over a week. discharge is less and i haven't worn a pantyliner since day 2 of fem d. CAN'T BELIEVE IT...i always had to wear one. i hope this is the way to go. i'm keeping my fingers crossed...

sooo sad

Hi sad. I think I only waited to have sex until I was done with the flagyl.

Anyway, I think at this point, it's fair to say that most everyone in here who's had the best long-term results have used Fem-d as part of their regimen.

So now, finally, I think it's okay to say, Fem-d is definitely the right product. It's safe (when used as directed!), and looks like it's done more for ladies in here than any other product. (I do wish it was cheaper, though.) I think it is, as close as anything can be, The Answer. (But yes, fingers crossed, still, for everyone.)

I've been very careful, probably too careful, to never shove any theory or method down anyone's throat - all under that hoary theory that we all have different bodies. But I think this is really, just basically, it.

I've been talking about the importance of fem-d and probiotics in here for over a year. It took a lot of fighting to get myself heard. *sigh* I guess it was worth it.

thanks for your advice hun...i will wait then ...but actually i can't wait cause it's been toooo long! i feel like a "bad girl" cause i want to have sex all the time. i guess when you can't have or do something you crave it more....lol!