Oh one other thing that drove me nuts... stupid Alberta.. sometimes when I told people I was teaching the course, they would use it as a reason to start spouting their own racist ideas. I have no idea why. It was like, "Oh, you're teaching a course about racism? Well, while we're on the topic of race, have you ever noticed how the asians are taking over this neighbourhood with their smelly food and their little zippy cars?" Aarrgh!

BWAHAHA! Yeah. Magic words "course about racism" probably opens the floodgates on years of accumulated resentment.

I don't get the "little zippy cars". Is there really that strong a correlation with car type? What kind of car are they talking about?

I read one comment that argued that complaining about band-aids was just petty, which I guess in their mind discounts all other types of racial bias that are more serious?

Yes, that's exactly their argument. A lot of people who react like that already have their minds made up and are so resistant to the possibility that they might, just might, have something to learn about the issue, that they just object object object object object. The concept of taking some time to think over the challenges to their worldview doesn't seem to even occur to them.

I grew up in Calgary, so I hear you on the racism against Aboriginal people. We "multicultural" Canadians like to pride ourselves on being better about race than Americans, but all that does is give people an excuse to never think about the shit that went on and still goes on in our country. As long as it doesn't affect them personally, eh?

Oh one other thing that drove me nuts... stupid Alberta.. sometimes when I told people I was teaching the course, they would use it as a reason to start spouting their own racist ideas. I have no idea why. It was like, "Oh, you're teaching a course about racism? Well, while we're on the topic of race, have you ever noticed how the asians are taking over this neighbourhood with their smelly food and their little zippy cars?" Aarrgh!

Oh I hate to think that people read McItosh's essay and get all defensive, and only look for the concrete actions. The whole point of her essay is that it's about a feeling and a social experience, something that permeates your very identity as a "normal" person. I know where I am, there are 4-8 different shades of whitish-coloured makeup in every brand, and only 2 or 3 to cover the entire spectrum of darker shades after that, so I don't see how number 26 isn't true. I read one comment that argued that complaining about band-aids was just petty, which I guess in their mind discounts all other types of racial bias that are more serious? It's supposed to be just one more example of the many little things that add up over time! aarrgh!

I found the class really fun to teach. Most students were very interested, and every once in a while when I would give a really horrifying example or case study you'd hear everyone in the room gasp. Teaching this course in western Canada, where white/black relations are pretty tame in comparison to the south, I still taught quite a bit about the history of racism and slavery in America, but I shifted the more standard course focus to include two large components about immigration and colonialism - Islamophobia and Aboriginal Canadians wre the two major case studies for it. I think I organized it well enough that all the concepts were laid out first, so by the time I talked about the real case studies, people were willing to be open minded. But you never know, given the kind of students who take the course, I'm probably preaching to the converted anyways. People did get confused when I went into genetics and explained how race doesn't exist as a biological reality, only a social construct. I'd say while many of them were willing to accept it as an idea, less than half understood the biology, either that or less than half were able to break down their social conditioning, and they didn't really quite get it.

I was disappointed to realize how stong racism against Aboriginal Canadians is here. People who were totally anti-racism when it came to black rights in America, still believed a lot of false stereotypes about Aboriginals and sometimes even said racist things without even realizing it. Again they understood it all in theory, but in the end I think many people found it hard to accept that the situation and stereotypes about black people in the US is very similar to Aboriginals in Canada, and it has a lot to do with economic status, not inherent biological or cultural characteristics! In the end, some students still seemed to think, well obviously it's racism when Americans discriminate against black people, but Indians really are like ___________ (insert stereotype here) so that's different." All things the talk about next time, I guess.

I was also disappointed that almost every day, I was able to bring in a real-world case study of overt racism. That healthcare teabagger thing was just insane. Sorry to be so long-winded! I'm just excited to talk about it!

One thing about the McIntosh essay that I've encountered in arguments about it elsewhere: some people want to throw it out because "Numbers 11 through 26 don't hold true for me or anyone I know, therefore, the whole thing is a piece of crap" kind of thing. But McIntosh used it as a description ONLY of what she could see in her own life.

How did your course go, Angie? Did anybody get defensive? I've heard anecdotes from some teachers that fewer students get defensive these days. Presumably (if their experience is representative, which it may not be) because these ideas are circulating through other channels, like here on the web. Of course so much depends on geography, homogeneity of community, etc.

yes I'd love to take part in any discussions! As someone who benefits from white privilege it's something I always feel I could (should) learn more about. As I said over in the Feminist thread, I just taught a course on Race & Racism, and even though I thought I knew a bit about the subject, I really learned a lot of things that I hadn't really realized.

One of the things that really struck me (similar to obelix's comment form 2009!) was the concept behind white prvilege that white people simply will never know what it's like to be a racial minority, having never experienced it. Hand in hand is the idea that the priviliges white people receive are "invisible" because we see them as being normal human rights. Yet at the same time, racial minorities often don't receive these rights. It really stuck with me, especially after I used the only analogy I could think of to understand it better - men will never know what it's like to be a woman, no matter how considerate or open-minded they are, because they go through life being treated like men, and having certain privileges that women don't have. And because they've never noticed that they have these privileges and we don't, as being a man to them is "normal" and just the way the world is, they don't really notice the fact that discrimination against women is still a part of everyday life.

bump for bob4both, if he's interested in continuing the conversation from the Feminist Outrage thread.

Also, links from What Tami Said:

What do we do when this happens--when allies fail? How can we address mistakes, while preserving relationships and maintaining the power that comes through alliances with people outside of our group? How do I think an ally should respond when their bias or privilege is called out? How do I think marginalized groups should handle the mistakes allies make? Part One. Part Two.

I took part in a white privilege discussion a few years, as one of the white participants. The part that gave me whiplash started with a simple question. "Would you agree that being black puts you at a disadvantage in many situations?" I come from a mostly minority town, and I had seen for years that skin color definitely influenced which middle or high school you attended, or what jobs were available to you. The answer to it was "Definitely yes".

"So would you agree that being white gives you an advantage in many situations?" THWACK!

It seems basic to me now, but that question from the moderator shook me. I had never put two and two together. I knew that my black friends were getting screwed over, but it never was apparent to me that I was given opportunities that I didn't necessarily deserve, just because I was white.

Beth Ditto said something i really liked the other day (can't find the quote anywhere dammit) about how people see the current President as stupid and useless, but no-one writes off all white males that way, whereas if Obama or Hillary put a foot wrong, it's doesn't reflect just on them as individuals, but on their entire ethnic group/gender.

reminded me of reading the black notebooks by toi derricotte. she gives a simple but brilliant explanation of white privilege that kind of expands on that - how every action she takes she is constantly aware that it will be seen as a reflection on all people of colour and the constant burden of that. everyone should read it (although i admit, not the most cheerful book in my collection).

I do appreciate his research, but he comes off as pompous and arrogant here.

My points still stand because aside from Willie Lynch, the psychological, physical, and systemic traumas experience by slaves were real! Their affects are still experienced and shared in every black hood across America.

Yes, I agree entirely. I hadn't actually followed the links to the Manu piece, which you're right is pompous and arrogant - a common character flaw in academics (full disclosure: I'm a graduate student in history).

The ensuing discussion is a mix of stupid and smart, but the gem is a link to this "Racism Fatigue" essay by Kate Harding:

[Excerpt] "As a white person, I haven’t been sensitized to covert racism by a lifetime of experiences. Unlike a person of color who has no choice but to see and feel it every day, I actually do have to “go looking for it”; my privilege could otherwise allow me to go through life believing it doesn’t exist. Because I care about being anti-racist, I do go looking, do make an effort to educate myself about patterns of racism I wouldn’t automatically recognize–and to question myself when my kneejerk reaction is, “Oh, come on–I’m supposed to believe that’s racist?”

But because I’m white, I also have the option of not looking any time I don’t feel like it. That’s what privilege is. It’s the option to ignore nasty shit that doesn’t directly affect my own life, my career, my relationships, my bank account, my social standing, my housing situation, etc."

"Some people argue that it doesn’t matter if the speech is fact or fiction, because white people did use tactics to divide us. Of course tactics were used but what advocates of this argument don’t understand is that African people will not solve our problems and address the real issues confronting us by adopting half-baked urban myths. If there are people who know that the Lynch speech is fictional, yet continue to promote it in order to “wake us up,” then we should be very suspicious of these people, who lack integrity and will openly violate trust and willingly lie to our community.

Even if the Willie Lynch mythology were true, the speech is focused on what white slaveholders were doing, and there is no plan, program, or any agenda items for Black people to implement. It is ludicrous to give god-like powers to one white man who allegedly gave a single speech almost 300 years ago, and claim that this is the main reason why Black people have problems among ourselves today! Unfortunately, too often Black people would rather believe a simple and convenient myth, rather than spend the time studying and understanding a situation. Too many of our people want a one-page, simplified Ripley’s Believe It or Not explanation of “what happened.”

I do appreciate his research, but he comes off as pompous and arrogant here. He is, afterall, a professional historian and researcher. Come on! Urban myths that are suppossedly over three hundred years old, who has the time to research the texts, a professional historian and researcher, that's who.

My points still stand because aside from Willie Lynch, the psychological, physical, and systemic traumas experience by slaves were real! Their affects are still experienced and shared in every black hood across America.

--------------------

Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.

So, blacks still have to deal with something akin to historic PTSD passed along from generation to generation since slavery. This kind of brutality does not disappear after one generation. Part of being white and having white privilege means that whites (and their ancestors) do not have to deal with the ramifications of pyschological and physical and systemic terror ...

Thank you for saying this.

The Willie Lynch text, unfortunately, isn't real. Which is not to say that the points it makes don't ring true, because they resonate with so many people. So thank you for contributing your words and views on white privilege, regardless. "Breaking the spirit, generation after generation" is exactly right.

I was thinking the other day about The Willie Lynch speech and letter called, "How To Make A Slave". In the letter he speaks about how to break the spirit of a people for generations, how to control people, and how to divide and conquer people. In one of Mos Def's songs he spouted, "How to Make a Slave by Willie Lynch" is still applying. So true. How might these practices still be going on today hundreds of years later, not just on blacks, but on everyone - divide and conquer - point out differences and capitalize on them. I dunno, just a thought.

But, I think that a major part white privilege rests upon the fact that as a whole group, historically, whites have not had to deal with psychological, and physical terror that Willie Lynch brought to the minds, hearts, and spirits of black and african peoples of the world. So, blacks still have to deal with something akin to historic PTSD passed along from generation to generation since slavery. This kind of brutality does not disappear after one generation. Part of being white and having white privilege means that whites (and their ancestors) do not have to deal with the ramifications of pyschological and physical and systemic terror brought about by Willie Lynch.

************************************

This speech was delivered by Willie Lynch on the bank of the James River in the colony of Virginia in 1712. Lynch was a British slave owner in the West Indies. He was invited to the colony of Virginia in 1712 to teach his methods to slave owners there. The term “lynching” is derived from his last name.

[beginning of the Willie Lynch Letter]

Greetings,

Gentlemen. I greet you here on the bank of the James River in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and twelve. First, I shall thank you, the gentlemen of the Colony of Virginia, for bringing me here. I am here to help you solve some of your problems with slaves. Your invitation reached me on my modest plantation in the West Indies, where I have experimented with some of the newest, and still the oldest, methods for control of slaves. Ancient Rome would envy us if my program is implemented. As our boat sailed south on the James River, named for our illustrious King, whose version of the Bible we cherish, I saw enough to know that your problem is not unique. While Rome used cords of wood as crosses for standing human bodies along its highways in great numbers, you are here using the tree and the rope on occasions. I caught the whiff of a dead slave hanging from a tree, a couple miles back. You are not only losing valuable stock by hangings, you are having uprisings, slaves are running away, your crops are sometimes left in the fields too long for maximum profit, you suffer occasional fires, your animals are killed. Gentlemen, you know what your problems are; I do not need to elaborate. I am not here to enumerate your problems, I am here to introduce you to a method of solving them. In my bag here, I HAVE A FULL PROOF METHOD FOR CONTROLLING YOUR BLACK SLAVES. I guarantee every one of you that, if installed correctly, IT WILL CONTROL THE SLAVES FOR AT LEAST 300 HUNDREDS YEARS. My method is simple. Any member of your family or your overseer can use it. I HAVE OUTLINED A NUMBER OF DIFFERENCES AMONG THE SLAVES; AND I TAKE THESE DIFFERENCES AND MAKE THEM BIGGER. I USE FEAR, DISTRUST AND ENVY FOR CONTROL PURPOSES. These methods have worked on my modest plantation in the West Indies and it will work throughout the South. Take this simple little list of differences and think about them. On top of my list is “AGE,” but it’s there only because it starts with an “a.” The second is “COLOR” or shade. There is INTELLIGENCE, SIZE, SEX, SIZES OF PLANTATIONS, STATUS on plantations, ATTITUDE of owners, whether the slaves live in the valley, on a hill, East, West, North, South, have fine hair, course hair, or is tall or short. Now that you have a list of differences, I shall give you an outline of action, but before that, I shall assure you that DISTRUST IS STRONGER THAN TRUST AND ENVY STRONGER THAN ADULATION, RESPECT OR ADMIRATION. The Black slaves after receiving this indoctrination shall carry on and will become self-refueling and self-generating for HUNDREDS of years, maybe THOUSANDS. Don’t forget, you must pitch the OLD black male vs. the YOUNG black male, and the YOUNG black male against the OLD black male. You must use the DARK skin slaves vs. the LIGHT skin slaves, and the LIGHT skin slaves vs. the DARK skin slaves. You must use the FEMALE vs. the MALE, and the MALE vs. the FEMALE. You must also have white servants and overseers [who] distrust all Blacks. But it is NECESSARY THAT YOUR SLAVES TRUST AND DEPEND ON US. THEY MUST LOVE, RESPECT AND TRUST ONLY US. Gentlemen, these kits are your keys to control. Use them. Have your wives and children use them, never miss an opportunity. IF USED INTENSELY FOR ONE YEAR, THE SLAVES THEMSELVES WILL REMAIN PERPETUALLY DISTRUSTFUL. Thank you gentlemen.”

LET’S MAKE A SLAVE

It was the interest and business of slave holders to study human nature, and the slave nature in particular, with a view to practical results. I and many of them attained astonishing proficiency in this direction. They had to deal not with earth, wood and stone, but with men and, by every regard, they had for their own safety and prosperity they needed to know the material on which they were to work, conscious of the injustice and wrong they were every hour perpetuating and knowing what they themselves would do. Were they the victims of such wrongs? They were constantly looking for the first signs of the dreaded retribution. They watched therefore with skilled and practiced eyes, and learned to read with great accuracy, the state of mind and heart of the slave, through his sable face. Unusual sobriety, apparent abstractions, sullenness and indifference indeed, any mood out of the common was afforded ground for suspicion and inquiry. Frederick Douglas LET’S MAKE A SLAVE is a study of the scientific process of man-breaking and slave-making. It describes the rationale and results of the Anglo Saxons’ ideas and methods of insuring the master/slave relationship. LET’S MAKE A SLAVE “The Original and Development of a Social Being Called ‘The Negro.’” Let us make a slave. What do we need? First of all, we need a black nigger man, a pregnant nigger woman and her baby nigger boy. Second, we will use the same basic principle that we use in breaking a horse, combined with some more sustaining factors. What we do with horses is that we break them from one form of life to another; that is, we reduce them from their natural state in nature. Whereas nature provides them with the natural capacity to take care of their offspring, we break that natural string of independence from them and thereby create a dependency status, so that we may be able to get from them useful production for our business and pleasure.

CARDINAL PRINCIPLES FOR MAKING A NEGRO

For fear that our future generations may not understand the principles of breaking both of the beast together, the nigger and the horse. We understand that short range planning economics results in periodic economic chaos; so that to avoid turmoil in the economy, it requires us to have breadth and depth in long range comprehensive planning, articulating both skill sharp perceptions. We lay down the following principles for long range comprehensive economic planning. Both horse and niggers [are] no good to the economy in the wild or natural state. Both must be BROKEN and TIED together for orderly production. For orderly future, special and particular attention must be paid to the FEMALE and the YOUNGEST offspring. Both must be CROSSBRED to produce a variety and division of labor. Both must be taught to respond to a peculiar new LANGUAGE. Psychological and physical instruction of CONTAINMENT must be created for both. We hold the six cardinal principles as truth to be self-evident, based upon following the discourse concerning the economics of breaking and tying the horse and the nigger together, all inclusive of the six principles laid down above. NOTE: Neither principle alone will suffice for good economics. All principles must be employed for orderly good of the nation. Accordingly, both a wild horse and a wild or natur[al] nigger is dangerous even if captured, for they will have the tendency to seek their customary freedom and, in doing so, might kill you in your sleep. You cannot rest. They sleep while you are awake, and are awake while you are asleep. They are DANGEROUS near the family house and it requires too much labor to watch them away from the house. Above all, you cannot get them to work in this natural state. Hence, both the horse and the nigger must be broken; that is breaking them from one form of mental life to another. KEEP THE BODY, TAKE THE MIND! In other words, break the will to resist. Now the breaking process is the same for both the horse and the nigger, only slightly varying in degrees. But, as we said before, there is an art in long range economic planning. YOU MUST KEEP YOUR EYE AND THOUGHTS ON THE FEMALE and the OFFSPRING of the horse and the nigger. A brief discourse in offspring development will shed light on the key to sound economic principles. Pay little attention to the generation of original breaking, but CONCENTRATE ON FUTURE GENERATION. Therefore, if you break the FEMALE mother, she will BREAK the offspring in its early years of development; and when the offspring is old enough to work, she will deliver it up to you, for her normal female protective tendencies will have been lost in the original breaking process. For example, take the case of the wild stud horse, a female horse and an already infant horse and compare the breaking process with two captured nigger males in their natural state, a pregnant nigger woman with her infant offspring. Take the stud horse, break him for limited containment. Completely break the female horse until she becomes very gentle, whereas you or anybody can ride her in her comfort. Breed the mare and the stud until you have the desired offspring. Then, you can turn the stud to freedom until you need him again. Train the female horse whereby she will eat out of your hand, and she will in turn train the infant horse to eat out of your hand, also. When it comes to breaking the uncivilized nigger, use the same process, but vary the degree and step up the pressure, so as to do a complete reversal of the mind. Take the meanest and most restless nigger, strip him of his clothes in front of the remaining male niggers, the female, and the nigger infant, tar and feather him, tie each leg to a different horse faced in opposite directions, set him afire and beat both horses to pull him apart in front of the remaining niggers. The next step is to take a bullwhip and beat the remaining nigger males to the point of death, in front of the female and the infant. Don’t kill him, but PUT THE FEAR OF GOD IN HIM, for he can be useful for future breeding.

THE BREAKING PROCESS OF THE AFRICAN WOMAN

Take the female and run a series of tests on her to see if she will submit to your desires willingly. Test her in every way, because she is the most important factor for good economics. If she shows any sign of resistance in submitting completely to your will, do not hesitate to use the bullwhip on her to extract that last bit of [b----] out of her. Take care not to kill her, for in doing so, you spoil good economics. When in complete submission, she will train her offsprings in the early years to submit to labor when they become of age. Understanding is the best thing. Therefore, we shall go deeper into this area of the subject matter concerning what we have produced here in this breaking process of the female nigger. We have reversed the relationship; in her natural uncivilized state, she would have a strong dependency on the uncivilized nigger male, and she would have a limited protective tendency toward her independent male offspring and would raise male offsprings to be dependent like her. Nature had provided for this type of balance. We reversed nature by burning and pulling a civilized nigger apart and bullwhipping the other to the point of death, all in her presence. By her being left alone, unprotected, with the MALE IMAGE DESTROYED, the ordeal caused her to move from her psychologically dependent state to a frozen, independent state. In this frozen, psychological state of independence, she will raise her MALE and female offspring in reversed roles. For FEAR of the young male’s life, she will psychologically train him to be MENTALLY WEAK and DEPENDENT, but PHYSICALLY STRONG. Because she has become psychologically independent, she will train her FEMALE offsprings to be psychologically independent. What have you got? You’ve got the nigger WOMAN OUT FRONT AND THE nigger MAN BEHIND AND SCARED. This is a perfect situation of sound sleep and economics. Before the breaking process, we had to be alertly on guard at all times. Now, we can sleep soundly, for out of frozen fear his woman stands guard for us. He cannot get past her early slave-molding process. He is a good tool, now ready to be tied to the horse at a tender age. By the time a nigger boy reaches the age of sixteen, he is soundly broken in and ready for a long life of sound and efficient work and the reproduction of a unit of good labor force. Continually through the breaking of uncivilized savage niggers, by throwing the nigger female savage into a frozen psychological state of independence, by killing the protective male image, and by creating a submissive dependent mind of the nigger male slave, we have created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever, unless a phenomenon occurs and re-shifts the position of the male and female slaves. We show what we mean by example. Take the case of the two economic slave units and examine them close.

THE NEGRO MARRIAGE

We breed two nigger males with two nigger females. Then, we take the nigger male away from them and keep them moving and working. Say one nigger female bears a nigger female and the other bears a nigger male; both nigger females—being without influence of the nigger male image, frozen with a independent psychology—will raise their offspring into reverse positions. The one with the female offspring will teach her to be like herself, independent and negotiable (we negotiate with her, through her, by her, negotiates her at will). The one with the nigger male offspring, she being frozen subconscious fear for his life, will raise him to be mentally dependent and weak, but physically strong; in other words, body over mind. Now, in a few years when these two offsprings become fertile for early reproduction, we will mate and breed them and continue the cycle. That is good, sound and long range comprehensive planning.

WARNING: POSSIBLE INTERLOPING NEGATIVES

Earlier, we talked about the non-economic good of the horse and the nigger in their wild or natural state; we talked out the principle of breaking and tying them together for orderly production. Furthermore, we talked about paying particular attention to the female savage and her offspring for orderly future planning, then more recently we stated that, by reversing the positions of the male and female savages, we created an orbiting cycle that turns on its own axis forever unless a phenomenon occurred and reshifts positions of the male and female savages. Our experts warned us about the possibility of this phenomenon occurring, for they say that the mind has a strong drive to correct and re-correct itself over a period of time if it can touch some substantial original historical base; and they advised us that the best way to deal with the phenomenon is to shave off the brute’s mental history and create a multiplicity of phenomena of illusions, so that each illusion will twirl in its own orbit, something similar to floating balls in a vacuum. This creation of multiplicity of phenomena of illusions entails the principle of crossbreeding the nigger and the horse as we stated above, the purpose of which is to create a diversified division of labor; thereby creating different levels of labor and different values of illusion at each connecting level of labor. The results of which is the severance of the points of original beginnings for each sphere illusion. Since we feel that the subject matter may get more complicated as we proceed in laying down our economic plan concerning the purpose, reason and effect of crossbreeding horses and niggers, we shall lay down the following definition terms for future generations. Orbiting cycle means a thing turning in a given path. Axis means upon which or around which a body turns. Phenomenon means something beyond ordinary conception and inspires awe and wonder. Multiplicity means a great number. Means a globe. Crossbreeding a horse means taking a horse and breeding it with an ass and you get a dumb, backward, ass long-headed mule that is not reproductive nor productive by itself. Crossbreeding niggers mean taking so many drops of good white blood and putting them into as many nigger women as possible, varying the drops by the various tone that you want, and then letting them breed with each other until another circle of color appears as you desire. What this means is this: Put the niggers and the horse in a breeding pot, mix some asses and some good white blood and what do you get? You got a multiplicity of colors of ass backward, unusual niggers, running, tied to backward ass long-headed mules, the one productive of itself, the other sterile. (The one constant, the other dying, we keep the nigger constant for we may replace the mules for another tool) both mule and nigger tied to each other, neither knowing where the other came from and neither productive for itself, nor without each other.

CONTROLLED LANGUAGE

Crossbreeding completed, for further severance from their original beginning, WE MUST COMPLETELY ANNIHILATE THE MOTHER TONGUE of both the new nigger and the new mule, and institute a new language that involves the new life’s work of both. You know language is a peculiar institution. It leads to the heart of a people. The more a foreigner knows about the language of another country the more he is able to move through all levels of that society. Therefore, if the foreigner is an enemy of the country, to the extent that he knows the body of the language, to that extent is the country vulnerable to attack or invasion of a foreign culture. For example, if you take a slave, if you teach him all about your language, he will know all your secrets, and he is then no more a slave, for you can’t fool him any longer, and BEING A FOOL IS ONE OF THE BASIC INGREDIENTS OF ANY INCIDENTS TO THE MAINTENANCE OF THE SLAVERY SYSTEM. For example, if you told a slave that he must perform in getting out “our crops” and he knows the language well, he would know that “our crops” didn’t mean “our crops” and the slavery system would break down, for he would relate on the basis of what “our crops” really meant. So you have to be careful in setting up the new language; for the slaves would soon be in your house, talking to you as “man to man” and that is death to our economic system. In addition, the definitions of words or terms are only a minute part of the process. Values are created and transported by communication through the body of the language. A total society has many interconnected value systems. All the values in the society have bridges of language to connect them for orderly working in the society. But for these language bridges, these many value systems would sharply clash and cause internal strife or civil war, the degree of the conflict being determined by the magnitude of the issues or relative opposing strength in whatever form. For example, if you put a slave in a hog pen and train him to live there and incorporate in him to value it as a way of life completely, the biggest problem you would have out of him is that he would worry you about provisions to keep the hog pen clean, or the same hog pen and make a slip and incorporate something in his language whereby he comes to value a house more than he does his hog pen, you got a problem. He will soon be in your house.

Additional Note: “Henty Berry, speaking in the Virginia House of Delegates in 1832, described the situation as it existed in many parts of the South at this time: “We have, as far as possible, closed every avenue by which light may enter their (the slaves) minds. If we could extinguish the capacity to see the light, our work would be complete; they would then be on a level with the beasts of the field and we should be safe. I am not certain that we would not do it, if we could find out the process and that on the plea of necessity.” From Brown America, The story of a New Race by Edwin R. Embree. 1931 The Viking Press.

--------------------

Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.

I'd like to take a moment and thank everyone for their candor and honesty. Due to some self reflection and a personal revelation, I will not participate in these types of discussions anymore. I don't even know if I will check this thread, so you anyone wants to talk, pm me.

I fully believe that white privilage does exhist. With that said, this is, obviously, something which occurs in an anglo-saxon dominated society. If any white person were to go to, Japan, for example, white privilage would not exist.

In reading what Mr. Pugs was reading, the way I interpreted his comments on Black history month was not that this was any sort of black privilage, but why, for the other 11 months of the year, is Black history being ignored? it's the same with all other history (aside from the white, European history that is). While I whole heartedly agree that the history of every culture and society needs to be studied and examined so it is not forgotten, it shouldn't be highlighted for only 1 month of the year. People need to celebrate multiculturalism. This is, of coruse, easier said than done, because racism still exists, on every level whether one likes it or not.

In Canada, I would say that the situation of the systematic and governmental racism of minorities, and low income people is comparible to that of the first Nations people in Canada. Those who the government, people and masses are "afraid" of, those who are more often convicted of crime, those who live in poverty, use and abuse substance, etc are the First Nations populations (and using slavery as the big issue in American History, here is was similar to the aboriginal population, Canada also had the nasty issue of residential schools, but this is OT). This is, of course, not restricred to the first nations population, all social issues happen to every cultural group, but the media would like to portray otherwise, which certiainly reaffirms the stereotype.

I found this online in my attempts to find another documentary. It's a comment. Interesting.

I found the documentary which was aired on The CBC's The Passionate Eye here is the a write up about the documentary. Anyways, I'm sure you have all heard of Jane Elliott and her blue eyes/brown eyes experiment she did with children. Well, she also did work called Indecently Exposed, where she took adults into a workshop and did the same thing. The documentary, which I can't seem to locate for free anywhere, was horrific and reaffirms what GT said about everyone being racist.

Anyways, there is so much i'd like to add, but I'm feeling rather convoluted, and my eyes are starting to cross from reading to much.

I would like to add that I work for social assistance, and the big question I always alwyas get is, "so, are there a lot of indians on social assistance?" People mean this in terms of the first nations population. I of course, always the smart ass, say you think there are a lot of people from India on social assistance? This of course outs the person and gets them to admit their racism or they walk away without finishing the conversation. Makes them uncomfortable when they are called on it. And funny enough, the people who have threatened my like. White people. many of the white people on social assistance are the biggest, meanest, rudest bastards. Again, because they think they are privilaged.

*relurks*

--------------------

Hatred does not cease in this world by hating, but by not hating; this is an eternal truth. --- Buddah, The Dhammapada

I forgot I meant to address your last point about "doesn't hurt because aimed at white man". I didn't intend to mean that slurs against whites don't hurt. I meant that they hurt, but they're loaded differently. The N-word (or "Chink" for myself), etc, invokes contempt by superiors towards inferiors (inferiors as determined by science and law, decades of thinking from influential people). "Cracker" invokes contempt, but from a position of inferiority. Of course, they both hurt, and are unjust and should be called out.

But to say it's only the whites who are oppressing the blacks or anybody else is wrong. My black friends explained the slur "cracker" is that it is short for whip-cracker. So when I get called a cracker, it implies that I oppressed a people, and have owned slaves. But that slur doesn't hurt because it's aimed at a white man.

Did somebody in this conversation say that it's only whites who oppress blacks? I didn't mean to give that impression. Certainly everybody of whatever colour has prejudices. What I've tried to say is, there are two levels we're discussing. One is institutional and governmental, the other is indvidual and personal. Institutional and governmental policies, which have been put into place by, mostly, wealthy white guys, do often stack the deck against blacks. eg, recent mortgage studies: "More recently, the Center for Responsible Lending found that borrowers living in predominately African American neighborhoods are more likely than other borrowers to receive loans that contain a prepayment penalty, an expensive fee charged for paying off the loan before its due date. *This study controlled for other key variables, such as creditworthiness, that might affect whether a lender imposes a penalty.* It leads to one unmistakable conclusion: borrowers from white neighborhoods have the best chance of getting a mortgage without a prepayment penalty."http://www.abanet.org/irr/hr/summer05/predator.htmlhttp://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:QG8Hf...;cd=9&gl=ushttp://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/1...ournalCode=soin

At the individual and personal level, I've tried to say that thre are ways that IME many (certainly not all, maybe not even most, but a majority, yes) whites are able to move through mainstream N. American society in ways that I as a person of colour have never been able to. eg, "Another source of the discomfort and anger that Whites often experience [when first being told that they've got white privilege] stems from the frustration of being seen as a group member, rather than as an individual. People of color learn early in life that they are seen by others as members of a group. For Whites, thinking of oneself only as an individual is a legacy of White privilege." (this is from that book "Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together...?")

Of course, you're absolutely right about Italians having experienced prejudice. Seems to me that, as far as this example of "But I'm an individual, not a group member" thing goes, Blacks would be at one end of a continuum (being judged as a skin-colour group member all the time), Anglo-Saxon/Nordic-background types would be at the other end (being judged as a group member rarely), and Italian, these days, might be in the middle but closer to Anglo-Saxon than Black. 100 years ago, of course, they'd have been much much closer to the Black end.

Another thought - it's not clear to me why pointing out that systemic structures favouring white people exist, and that many white people unconsciously behave in ways that blind them to learning about existing racism and, on an individual level, even continue to reinscribe damaging stereotypes on POC - why does pointing out these things and saying they need to beaddressed, equate to "absolving" Blacks of personal responsiblity?

Because that's not why I point them out. I point them out so that they can be acknowledged and addressed. Along with the calls for Black people to fix their own internal problems (Bill Cosby, eg) - which as far as I can tell, there's no shortage of. (I suppose you'd disagree on that.) These systemic + individual whiteness blinkers, though - they're not even being acknowledged, most of the time.

It's a shame that LMP has a hard time un-attaching her feelings from a discussion.

I know that I can't unattach my feelings from this conversation, it is too important.

I don't really have anything to add at the moment but I have been impressed with what I have seen over the past few days. So thanks everyone for participating. I'll be back as soon as I have something useful to the conversation.