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Marine Helos in Korea

02-21-2006, 21:35

I asked Mike Leahy to clarify for me which helos the Marines had in Korea, and being a combat artist, his response came thirty minutes later in the form of this picture he drew for me. I was speechless!

Comment

Was my understanding that the Horizonal stabilizer was mainly to help stabilize in forward flight velocity. The HO5S now in the Kit Plane market had moved the stabilizer up some forward along the tail fuselage with small vertical fins on each end. The newer Sikorsky Helicopters (Blackhawks) Have a horizonal stabilizer that is controlable like on some fixed wing A/C. It is also in the AFCS control system. SF PM

Comment

I have viewed this several times and now feel compelled to correct our (your) artist in his sketching portrayal of Marine helicopters in Korea. He either never saw or heard of the HO3S-1 Sikorsky helocopters that were first in Korea, August 1950, piloted, crewed, and serviced by former HMX-1 personnel transferred to VMO-6. It's about time that they were recognized.

Comment

As I remember my helicopter aerodynamics from HT-8, the horizontal stabilizer in the H-34 was put there to keep the nose from pitching too far down in forward flight. If you look at the stabilizers on an H-34 you will notice that they look like an upside down wing. The curved portion is on the bottom, the flat side is up. In forward flight the A/C attitude is slightly nose down. This causes the stabilizers to "lift" DOWN, just the reverse of a regular wing which lifts UP. The result is that the A/C maintains the designed nose down attitude in forward flight. The fact that the H-34 stabilizers are in a "fixed" position means that they do not operate at the greatest efficiency at all speeds. The Blackhawk stabilizers are moveable to allow the greatest efficiency at all forward speeds.

"Crazy Joe"
HMM-363

Comment

Joe the concept you discribe would fit the fixed stabilizer. . An airfoil with velocity of air over it would exert force as you discribe it regardless of which way the ventura half was faceing. Of course some have equal face surfaces & than depending on the angle of attack would than determine where the lift was exerted. On some new main blades coming out from Sikorsky the tip droop & back slant is mainly to deal with blade tip air burble which resulted in excessive drag. I agree the HO3S has been overlooked in the initial Korean action. A friend of mine was shot down and landed his F4U in the rice paddies. The violent bump on the dikes resulted in bad back damage to him. His wingman flew around as long as his fuel permitted. He than sat against the dike awaiting possible rescue. As darkness approached an HO3S helicopter appeared & with the aid of his zippo lighter landed & picked him up. The pilot was an Navy NAP Petty Officer First Class. They flew out toward the carrier with the radios out & in the darkness. When he arrived at where he plotted the carrier to be he circled and finally the carrier turned on the lights. Hope to see that Major at the April HMX-1 Reunion. (As usual the name? forgot hope I will recognize him)

Comment

Can Mike or anyone else explain the horizontal stabilizers (diagonal stabilizers?) go with which type. Some had what Mike drew, some had smaller, still others none at all.

Semper Fi,
Ryan

Reading old posts tonight I see the responses to this one explaining how horizontal stabs works. I think Ryan's questions was specific to the three different types of HRS (HRS-1, HRS-2, and HRS-3) and which type of stab (or lack thereof) was associated with which model. I think I've got a manual around here somewhere that covers the differences. I'll look for it.

Comment

I have viewed this several times and now feel compelled to correct our (your) artist in his sketching portrayal of Marine helicopters in Korea. He either never saw or heard of the HO3S-1 Sikorsky helocopters that were first in Korea, August 1950, piloted, crewed, and serviced by former HMX-1 personnel transferred to VMO-6. It's about time that they were recognized.

I've viewed the sketch several times and each time I see the HO3S-1 in it (2nd from the bottom).

Comment

Here is the page out of the album I was thinking of. Not very helpful I guess because it doesn't even list all of the HRS versions. This is out of an Air Force H-19B manual. AFAIK The H-19A, B, and C do not correspond to HRS-1, 2, and 3. IIRC the HRS-1 was a CH-19E.

Comment

Reading old posts tonight I see the responses to this one explaining how horizontal stabs works. I think Ryan's questions was specific to the three different types of HRS (HRS-1, HRS-2, and HRS-3) and which type of stab (or lack thereof) was associated with which model. I think I've got a manual around here somewhere that covers the differences. I'll look for it.

Wow, talked about something I haven't thought about in a long time. Looking around I found this.

Gary D on HKN had this to say - "HRS-1 were originally built without the inverted V shaped stabilator. Early in the HRS-2 production the inverted stab was added and was eventually refitted to all Marine HRS variants."

I was getting at the stab differences on the HRS-1's of HS-10 and XM-3 and HRS-2's of HT-16 and HN-2