Ogletree charged with a DUI last week on top of his failed drug test last season he could fall out of the first round now. If he is there at 25 Id still take him, he would be an instant impact and difference maker on our defense. Kinda glad this happened as we have a legit shot at him now

It'll be interesting to see if the Hawks take a chance on him if available. Irvin and McCoy both had red flags but Carroll had personal experience with them prior to the draft. He doesn't have that with Ogletree.

Olgetree is a freak, i would love if the hawks picked him up. Not only would the hawks have the best secondary in the league but i think they would have the best LB core in the league. He's fast, can cover, blitz, and there's a need. I think he's the only none DT,DE i take in round 1.

If the rumors about Moore not receiving a 1st round grade and Ogletree falling I would be ecstatic about being in position for either one. Ogletree at WLB or Moore at LEO end or possibly Irvin's spot with Irvin starting would be sweet.

12th_Bob wrote:If the rumors about Moore not receiving a 1st round grade and Ogletree falling I would be ecstatic about being in position for either one. Ogletree at WLB or Moore at LEO end or possibly Irvin's spot with Irvin starting would be sweet.

That could work. I'm in love with Moore.

Week 1 of the preseason vs. The Tennessee Titans, I said the Seahawks were winning the superbowl...

I could not understand why so many writers were treating his 4 game suspension like it was barely worth the key strokes, when it is kind of a big deal. And now a DUI?I have been on the same plank as J, great athlete who plays football, but not instinctively. No thanks.

We have strong leadership on our defense which could be a deciding factor as to why Coach Carroll would draft Ogletree. I remember reading that the front office passed on selecting Jimmy Williams (Raves 1st pick in 2011) because they didn't think we had the leadership on defense to keep Williams knucklehead ways in check.

I never understood all the hype with Ogletree. I've watched about 8 games of his so far and besides a few good plays, he fails to show enough instincts and technique for me to think he was worth even a first round grade let alone top-10 which I've seen. His stock was due for a big-time drop with or without another incident like this.

"People who don't punch their ponies in the face make me sick." - Louis C.K.

JSeahawks wrote:IMO, tremendous athlete, not that good of a football player, and apparently not very smart. No thanks.

I have cooled off quite a bit on him as well, but I still see him as being a Pete Carroll type of player since Arthur Brown and Bobby Wagner were more athletes than linebackers as well. Brown was highly praised by Carroll coming out of college. While I have a growing list of reservations about Ogletree, I'd trust Pete if he made that choice, because with just a little time Ogletree will be a better LB under Carroll than he was at Georgia.

Recon_Hawk wrote:I never understood all the hype with Ogletree. I've watched about 8 games of his so far and besides a few good plays, he fails to show enough instincts and technique for me to think he was worth even a first round grade let alone top-10 which I've seen. His stock was due for a big-time drop with or without another incident like this.

I haven't seen him nearly as much as you, but I think you may want to consider what he could do in our system. Coach Carroll is a defensive minded guy and I think he would use Ogletree in maybe a more dynamic way then he was used at Georgia. He looks like a natural pass rusher and I think Coach Carroll would use that and play him utilizing his strengths. If he falls to say around #18 of the 1st round, then we should trade up to get him.

chris98251 wrote:Well he has a drug bust and a DUI, just needs domestic violence and he would be a perfect Hill replacement

I addition to the above, he is apparently also a thief. I can't recall the long version, but he stole something (motorcycle helmet?) from some track guy (if I am not mistaken). Kids will be kids and sometimes kids party but stealing stuff sorta' paints a clearer picture of who he is as a person. Despite the crazy talent, too many red flags for a 1st, IMO.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:As a weakside linebacker he has limitless potential. It's just whether you believe he can deliver on that potential.

And whether you think a weakside linebacker of any potential is worth our top pick.

Weakside linebacker is one of the few remaining needs on the roster. So yeah, it should be worth our top pick at the end of round one if a good enough player is sitting there. They start a weakside linebacker on the vast majority of play calls.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:As a weakside linebacker he has limitless potential. It's just whether you believe he can deliver on that potential.

And whether you think a weakside linebacker of any potential is worth our top pick.

Weakside linebacker is one of the few remaining needs on the roster. So yeah, it should be worth our top pick at the end of round one if a good enough player is sitting there. They start a weakside linebacker on the vast majority of play calls.

Last part is not true. WSLBers got about 50% of the defensive snaps last year.

McGruff wrote:Last part is not true. WSLBers got about 50% of the defensive snaps last year.

I think part of the plan is to find a fast LB who can stay on the field all 3 downs. They won't draft another Leroy Hill, even though there are some Leroy Hill types in this draft I really like.

I agree with you though- linebacker in round one feels unlikely. Pass rush is what ended our season, not linebacker issues, so I suspect we'll see the team go pass rush in round 1. I suppose Ogletree and maybe Dion Jordan could be in play that early since they are such great blitzers, but Pete doesn't like blitzing much.

McGruff wrote:Last part is not true. WSLBers got about 50% of the defensive snaps last year.

And in 2011 Leroy Hill played 89% of Seattle's defensive snaps.

Is KJ coming off in nickel packages? I know Wagner was early in the year but that changed, right? For some reason I thought it was Wagner and KJ in those situations with an eye for finding someone better suited for those packages to replace KJ longterm with a good WLB. Correct anything I've gotten horribly wrong here.

No I think that's absolutely fair. You don't have to take the WLB off in nickel. If you get an athletic LB who covers well, can blitz and is an asset to stay on the field, I'd have no issues taking KJ off in nickel situations.

I don't really count Wright as a true "fast" linebacker. Wright ran in the 4.7s at the combine and his pro day. He was burned more than a few times last season, and has never been much of an asset in man coverage. Wright does have long arms, which helps, but he's not a guy you want covering a quick TE on a deep route.

That means that our only fast linebacker is Bobby Wagner, unless you count Malcolm Smith, who has barely played. Seattle needs that second fast linebacker for those nickle packages. Dion Jordan would be a really interesting option, because he could make a killer SAM type or WILL type. In other words, you could play Jordan at WILL in 2013, have your second fast linebacker, and move him to SAM down the road if Wright leaves in free agency.

kearly wrote:I don't really count Wright as a true "fast" linebacker. Wright ran in the 4.7s at the combine and his pro day. He was burned more than a few times last season, and has never been much of an asset in man coverage. Wright does have long arms, which helps, but he's not a guy you want covering a quick TE on a deep route.

That means that our only fast linebacker is Bobby Wagner, unless you count Malcolm Smith, who has barely played. Seattle needs that second fast linebacker for those nickle packages. Dion Jordan would be a really interesting option, because he could make a killer SAM type or WILL type. In other words, you could play Jordan at WILL in 2013, have your second fast linebacker, and move him to SAM down the road if Wright leaves in free agency.

This is agreed. Wright is a long linebacker, but far from fast. Which is part of the reason I have had to adjust my idea that we will go after pure speed at LB. Fast enough and Fast can be pretty far apart in the draft.

Carroll doesn't just draft fast linebackers. He drafts for role. People think this is revolutionary, but you can look at USC defenses and Carroll's teaching from ten years ago and see our team written in prophecy.

At SAM he looks for length, strenght and run stuffing ability. AT WILL he looks for speed, range, and ability to play through trash. At MIKE he wants a versatile linebacker with range, good size, and the ability to cover.

Wagner and Wright are so good at what they do, it's really hard to justify taking them off the field at this point. I don't see a WILL coming in and taking their snaps. I could be wrong, but I'm not . . .

Recon_Hawk wrote:I never understood all the hype with Ogletree. I've watched about 8 games of his so far and besides a few good plays, he fails to show enough instincts and technique for me to think he was worth even a first round grade let alone top-10 which I've seen. His stock was due for a big-time drop with or without another incident like this.

I haven't seen him nearly as much as you, but I think you may want to consider what he could do in our system. Coach Carroll is a defensive minded guy and I think he would use Ogletree in maybe a more dynamic way then he was used at Georgia. He looks like a natural pass rusher and I think Coach Carroll would use that and play him utilizing his strengths. If he falls to say around #18 of the 1st round, then we should trade up to get him.

One of the reasons I tend to disagree with people's top-10 grades or even 1st round grade is that it places so much value on the assumptions and projections on how he will play at the next level.

In certain areas of his game, he does not play well at the Mike. He struggles to diagnose plays as they are developing in front of him and is often a half-step slow causing him to get man handled by the O line, so it's assumed a position change to WLB can hide those flaws. I don't buy that. I'm a bit of an old school guy. To me, a linebacker is a linebacker, especially in a 4-3 defense. What a player does well or poor at one position, he will continue to show that at the other spots, with only slightly improved or worsened play.

Additional, it is required to project upside and potential versus solely what he's shown on the field. Honestly, I struggle with that part. How much value should potential have in the grading process over what is on tape? Koorey Toomer and Aaron Curry both had the physical upside of any other player in their respected draft. In Toomer's case, his tape was the deciding factor on where he was drafted, not his extreme upside. He was a 5th round pick. In Curry's case, his upside was the focus. They ignore the flaws and negatives and drafted on potential. He went 4th overall (ugh).

A trade up to grab a WLB with questionable instincts and other parts of his game would be a bad, bad decision, imo. That's not to say I wouldn't want Tree with maybe the 2nd round pick. I may sound like I hate the guy, but I don't. I see why people are high on him. He flashes greatness at times, but just not enough for me justify drafting him in the first.

"People who don't punch their ponies in the face make me sick." - Louis C.K.

I don't want anything to do with him. Huge bust potential and it's my humble opinion that a lot of his plays come from him being in the right place at the right time while Jarvis Jones and the D Line are creating havoc with the opposing offense.

It looks to me like Ogletree just runs around and waits for things to come to him rather than creating on his own.