I love what Jim Brown did for the Browns and for many young troubled youth across America. But, when it comes to getting between Holmgren and Lerner concering the football team, he can take a walk. If a "lesser role" ruffles Brown's feathers- so be it.

It was Lerner's choice in handing the car keys to Holmgren.

Brown will get his own ceremony some time down the line. Which may be the attention he wants.

IMO the Mangini thing is completely different. Nothing wrong with homages to the old guard (when warranted) despite how few players of the current guard actually know who he is. Right and wrong ways to do things, Mangini's was wrong.

Putting words in people's mouths is hip today.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

A competent leader making a common-sense move. It almost gives me goose bumps, after so many years of Policy, Clark, Butch, Opie and Jammies.

No argument here..........BUT, wasn't Mangina vilified by the "fan base" when he took down the pictures of Browns' Legends at Berea, right after he was hired?

It's almost like this "get rid of the Dawg Pound controversy". Do we really honor and remember the past by continuing to pimp it?

On a side note, I saw Jim Brown in person last year and at that time he looked like death warmed over.

People were pissed at Mangini because we hold the past very dear (I know how gay that sounds) to us. It's important. All Holmgren is trying to do is to honor it.

That doesn't mean that the fans wanted Mangini to start hiring old players in advisory roles on how to run the football team because they used to play really good.

The problem here is Jim Brown taking it so damn personally. If he's smart enough to be in any type of advisory position in the first place, then he damn well should be smart enough to know that what Holmgren did is NOT personal and something that happens in EVERY organization when there is a new man in charge. If he doesn't "get" that, then I don't want him anywhere near running anything.

Per the Columbus Dispatch, Holmgren's letter said " I trust Jim will be there, and I hope he's there because he is a part of this. He's part of the history of this place, a big part of it. Any way it comes down, its going to be a wonderful day. Its going to be a celebration...Its going to be a great celebration for all of us and the 16 families on that day, and I trust he will be a part of it." Apparently JB was paraphrasing.

Love child of shawn kemp wrote:Per the Columbus Dispatch, Holmgren's letter said " I trust Jim will be there, and I hope he's there because he is a part of this. He's part of the history of this place, a big part of it. Any way it comes down, its going to be a wonderful day. Its going to be a celebration...Its going to be a great celebration for all of us and the 16 families on that day, and I trust he will be a part of it." Apparently JB was paraphrasing.

Jim, if you say that people in Cleveland shouldn't be mad at LeBron for leaving because it's a business, then don't be mad at the Browns for doing the same thing.

In this economy, you turned down a job (especially in Cleveland) paying $100,000 to basically be a mascot and show up while other people are trying to keep their heads above water? Way to be, Jim, way to be.

Race has always been J.B.'s obsesive thought. Sad. browns fans don't see black/white. we got a white FB and a black QB and who xcares. I name Motley as my favorite cause he [and bill willis] handled a harder situation with class and dignity. Paul Brown demanded black players or F888 the NFL. Jim Brown should have a statue at BROWNS STADIUM as the greatest player in football history. but i'm sorry he doesn't feel my love.

Not out to defend Jim Brown. It is a disgrace that he chooses to take his petty indifferences out on the fans of Cleveland. Not s surprise, but a disgrace.

The reason I am calling is this. How different is the fan reaction, which has been mostly against JB from what I have heard, if it was Eric Mangini who "fired" him instead of Holmgren?

I mean, if painting over a mural was a fire-able offense around these parts, what is an argument that causes one of the GOAT to say "My legacy will not be defined by Mike Holmgren (or in my question Eric Mangini)." Public stoning? Drawn and quartered?

pup wrote:Not out to defend Jim Brown. It is a disgrace that he chooses to take his petty indifferences out on the fans of Cleveland. Not s surprise, but a disgrace.

The reason I am calling is this. How different is the fan reaction, which has been mostly against JB from what I have heard, if it was Eric Mangini who "fired" him instead of Holmgren?

I mean, if painting over a mural was a fire-able offense around these parts, what is an argument that causes one of the GOAT to say "My legacy will not be defined by Mike Holmgren (or in my question Eric Mangini)." Public stoning? Drawn and quartered?

Worse. Far worse probably. But only if it was last year. Because four game streak bought Mangini some time and credit with the fans.

And don't minimize the fact that there were already tons of fans who knew nothing of Jim Brown's accomplishments but only of seeing him with his hand constantly out in these, his Bitter Old Man days.

pup wrote:Not out to defend Jim Brown. It is a disgrace that he chooses to take his petty indifferences out on the fans of Cleveland. Not s surprise, but a disgrace.

The reason I am calling is this. How different is the fan reaction, which has been mostly against JB from what I have heard, if it was Eric Mangini who "fired" him instead of Holmgren?

I mean, if painting over a mural was a fire-able offense around these parts, what is an argument that causes one of the GOAT to say "My legacy will not be defined by Mike Holmgren (or in my question Eric Mangini)." Public stoning? Drawn and quartered?

He didn't fire him. He offered him less money to do the same nothing.

The problem is Jim Brown's. He's pissy. Who cares who it's at?

When people over-reacted about the mural-moving last year, that was equally annoying. It seems some people have personal vendettas against certain front-office/coaching types for who knows what reason and can't wait to bitch about anything and everything they do.

I know you think it's unfair (and you're right), but haven't you a similar axe to grind with Holmgren?

one time after jim brown fumbled p.b. ran onto the field and screamed at jimmy "you're killing the team brown...go sit down" next series jim crushed 3 LB's for a big gain. it's a team sport. the greatest player ever let himself be used as a decoy in the '64 Title gameplan. why be an asshole in the real world when you were part of the greatest team ever. TEAM. p.b. was always getting jim out of trouble in Hiram for messing with young white girls. his women have always been white and he has abused them criminaly. he hates whites, and this episode is another chance to get whitey. why jimmy? browns fans are not racist. we forced the NFL to integrate at the cost of death threats to p.b.,motley,willis., shit thrown at them from other cities' fans, paul bussed the team into segragated Washington for games rather than stay in negro hotels. i'm proud of our city's leadership in human rights. Indians, browns, jesse owens, carl stokes,etc. always in the lead. and #32 insults these fans? i worshiped the browns as a kid[including jimmy]. met a lot of them over the years. Greg Pruitt [my all-tiome favorite brown] hugged me hard when i asked "are you greg pruitt?" games at the old stadium saw blacks/whites hugging each other,or crying with each other. a racist cannot be a browns or rock 'n roll fan. jim brown cannot be a cherished brown hating whites. whites put a black into the white house, enough of this different than you shit. America's Hall of Fame doesn't include jim brown.