Only 85 members of the German Parliament support the opinion of the people against yet more bailouts

The German people (like the British people and the American people) are overwhelmingly against the bailouts. But their opinion (like the opinion of the British and American peoples) has been ignored in the past – and vast sums of money have been spent.

Today was a vote over whether or not extra hundreds of billions are to be spent – and to be spent by an European Union executive agency with arbitrary powers. At least 70% of the German people were against this – in spite of the intense propaganda of the establishment media.

It is the end – not just the end of any prospect that people will really face up to their problems (rather than scream for endless bailouts), but also the end for any pretence that modern government is in any real sense “democratic”. It is not a sudden emotional whim of the people that has been ignored – it is the settled opinion (conviction) of the people, which has been held (in spite of intense propaganda against it) for a long period of time, that has been spat upon.

“Vote them out”.

How? Both the governing CDU and the opposition SPD voted for endless bailouts and arbitrary executive power.

September 29th, 2011 |

24 comments to Only 85 members of the German Parliament support the opinion of the people against yet more bailouts

German parliamentary elections are half first past the post regional and half proportional party lists. I’d suggest that the ideal tactic is to focus on one or two MPs in FPTP races and put up a strong independent candidate who’ll run on a “no more bailouts” platform.

The limited number is to concentrate resources and to really humiliate the victims. Basically, pick two SOBs and kick them out of office pour encourager les autres.

Lysander Spooner(Link) argues that according to the traditional English common law, taxation would not be upheld because no explicit consent was given by individuals to be taxed (1852 )- and the same applies to Third World and First World bail-outs.

“If the trial by jury were reëstablished, the Common Law principle of taxation would be reëstablished with it; for it is not to be supposed that juries would enforce a tax upon an individual which he had never agreed to pay. Taxation without consent is as plainly robbery, when enforced against one man, as when enforced against millions; and it is not to be imagined that juries could be blind to so self-evident a principle. Taking a man’s money without his consent, is also as much robbery, when it is done by millions of men, acting in concert, and calling themselves a government, as when it is done by a single individual, acting on his own responsibility, and calling himself a highwayman. Neither the numbers engaged in the act, nor the different characters they assume as a cover for the act, alter the nature of the act itself.”

Whatever our disagreements over philosophy, foreign policy or economics I cannot see how any honest individual can deny the fundamental truth of Tucker’s statement.

One wonders if it will lead to the formation of something like a Tea Party in Germany. I don’t have a good feel for whether it’s in the German culture to do this, and what with anti-Americanism being pretty high there, they are unlikely to copy an American idea specifically. However, it also doesn’t seem to be within the German nature to just bend over and take it.

Sometimes the ‘people’ get it completely wrong, as well. Greeks voted for parties that promised massive government welfare programs. Europe is in this mess because the Greek Parliament DID listen to the voters- too many times!

Europe seems to be behaving like an Oligarchy. Like there has been a revolution within the form, much like Augustus kept the senate around in Ancient Rome so as to avoid upsetting everyone too much. The people can vote for whatever they want. The oligarchs determine what they get.

Although, I could be wrong. Specifically because I can’t tell who the heck is in charge.

RRS – Edmund Burke was right in his conflict with the voters of Bristol (on the slave trade and on free trade with Ireland).

However, yes, they were within their rights to kick him out.

But remember a central idea of Edmund Burks – that a party should not be a “faction” that a “party” should be a group of people united by clear PRINCIPLES and that people should be able to see these principles in advance of an election and carried out after the election.

The Rockingham Whigs held to just principles (so Burke believed) while Rockingham lived – but under the influence of Fox (again from the point of view of Burke) the party dishonoured those principles – so Mr Burke and his friends left the Foxites (and it was not “just” the French Revolution – it was the confusion of Parliamentary reform with “freedom”, they are diffferent things, and it was hostility to free trade with Ireland).

Which political party in Germany has followed just PRINCIPLES?

So how are they followers of Edmund Burke?

They (the political parties) reject both libertry (civil society – private property), reject it with their bailout, and they reject national independence.

They have acted like a collection of vermin and (tragically) are discrediting themselves.

Germany is not short of political parties(Link) including Citizens in Rage and the Pirate Party who have regional seats and the Anarchist Pogo Party, the Freedom – Civil Rights Party and the Party of Bible abiding Christians who are as yet not represented in regional assembles. Oh, and the Violets.

Perhaps someone who knows their political science better than I do can tell us if there is any significance in the fact that the country has six parties in the Bundestag, five more in the state parliaments and at least twenty-five more trying to get a toe-hold on power.

I know they have a proportional representation voting system, but thirty-odd parties seems excessive to me.

The “settled opinion (conviction) of the people” can be a fickle and dangerous thing.
We have had this summer (in Israel) a very strong movement of demonstrations which brought hundreds of thousands people to the streets. What the people demand is “communism now”. I hope government will be strong willed enough to ignore them.

The problem with the decision of the German parliament isn’t that it ignores the wishes of the people, but that it ignores economic reality. Maybe if they framed the plan as a plan to save German banks, which it is, rather than a plan to save Greece, people would have been less opposed to it. It would still be wrong.

Yes – when the people advocate evil or stupid policies (the slave traders of Bristol or the wild government spending “social justice” protestors in Israel) it is right and proper for a politician to vote AGAINST their demands.

However, if a majority of people are corrupt then no politician can save a nation (corrupt politicians can be removed by the people – but how can an honest politician remove a corrupt people?).

Let us hope that most people in Isreal have not really turned to madness and evil.

In short that the, Soros funded, protestors (with their demands for more houses and apartments turning into snarls of demented rage when the govenrment suggested selling state land so that apartments for rent could be built upon it) do not really represent most people.

Hundreds of thousands of Isrealis demonstrating for communism? Really? Are they insane?

Forget about the economics of communism, if the people of the USA ever came to believe that Isreal had turned communist how do these demonstrators expect to survive in the middle east? Are they planning to convert to Islam as well?

Oh, no, not the “hundreds of thousands” media invention again. And, to say that most of the demonstrators demanded “communism now” is preposterous. The ‘very strong movement of demonstrations’ Jacob is referring to were a handful of Champagne Socialists (is there any other kind?) “which knew not Joseph” – i.e. were too young to remember how “fun” life was under real Israeli socialism of the 50s-70s – who took advantage of the real economic hardships an average Israeli citizen is facing thanks to our government’s interventions in the economy, and took to the streets to promote their silly agenda. The few thousands of middle-class normal people who joined them quite soon discovered who they were dealing with and went back home. The remaining few thousands showed up to see and hear some popular (and unsurprisingly leftist) Israeli pop singers who agreed to grace the demonstrations with their august presence. All the demonstrations throughout the entire country of ~7mil people did not amount to more than 100K, according to the police.

All of the above is not to say that the demonstrations are not going to influence Israeli politics and economic policy – they will, and not necessarily in a good way. However, it will not be due to Israelis’ inherent communism, but to simple old ignorance on economics.

“Sometimes the ‘people’ get it completely wrong, as well. Greeks voted for parties that promised massive government welfare programs. Europe is in this mess because the Greek Parliament DID listen to the voters- too many times!”

I’m sorry Nuke this is at best superficially and more importantly wrong.

Europe is in a mess because a EU currency union fixes interest rates in effect for Germany alone who operate a policy of mercantilism. The periphery who have their own problems were hollowed out even more.

In the case of Greece there are no welfare programs of the scale of the UK and overall debt compared to the EZ is small.

What Greece does have is a blatantly corrupt political class, with no choice for the voter. It is not unknown for government minister to trouser literally millions while in office. Hence no one believes that paying taxes is a “good thing” and allegiance is towards the family not to the state.

I find it amusing irony that on a would be libertarian blog people are talking of welfare, where in several aspects the Greeks are by the virtue of their bloody mindedness and history are more libertarian in outcome of action (though not necessarily by consciousness) than many here.

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