I'd tell her "No, sorry. I already have other plans for Saturday. If you aren't sure you will be able to go Friday, I'll just ask someone else. Maybe we can do something together another time."

And the next time you see her? Hand her a copy of "He's Just Not That Into You".

Exactly. And hand her the above book, and please beg her to also read, "Why Men Love B**ches." (Forgot the author's name). It'll tell her to say exactly that to her boyfriend, but if she won't, at least you can say that to her.

Sounds like Suzie's default position is "Hanging out with The Boyfriend all weekend, unless something else comes up."

That's not rude in itself. In fact, many (most?) couples I know operate like this. The rudeness comes from:

1) It seems to be a one-way street. It appears The Boyfriend can make his own plans and decide his own timetable without checking with Suzie first, but doesn't extend that same favour to Suzie; and

2) The Boyfriend doesn't confirm his plans until the last minute, which means Suzie can't confirm HER plans until the last minute, which in turn, affects YOUR plans.

There is also a friendship issue here too. Yep, in general your SO should be your top priority. And heck, if given a choice, people generally prefer hanging out with their SOs, rather than their friends. But while one's SO should be the top priority, they shouldn't be the only priority. Sometimes, you do have to put your friends first. Otherwise, you risk losing your friendships. I hope Suzie realises this soon.

As for how to proceed, I'd give Suzie firm deadlines to respond. Eg "I need to know by Wednesday night if you can come to the concert on Friday" etc.

Like everyone else said, you are fine in how you feel/ what you said.In terms of the concert on Friday, I'd give her a deadline: "I'd really love to go with you to the concert, but I don't want the ticket to go to waste/ don't want to risk having to go alone at the last minute. Let me know by Wednesday eve if you can come, and if not, I'll ask Susie."

I wouldn't rely on her for anything that involves a commitment to an event, that involves money you pay up front unless you get her money from her ahead of time before purchasing a ticket/making a reservation, as she could very easily flake on you at the last minute. I would only get together with her in group situations where her attendance/nonattendance won't affect the event.

If she's a good friend: "I love you, and want to spend time with you, but I can't be your backup plan. If you want to spend Friday with your boyfriend, that's fine. But I need to know now so I can make other plans."

1. Friend's new boyfriend prefers to hang out with his friends, doesn't want to meet HER friends, only sees her if all his plans with his friends either never materialize or fall through.

2. Because of boyfriend's indecision as to with whom he'd rather spend his time, she puts off making plans with her own friends and expects them to wait until the last minute for her to decide.

Do I have it about right?

Yep, that sounds about right.

Thanks for all the great advice and validation that I am not just being petulant. I do know that this bothers me more because she's kowtowing to the BF rather than because she herself is flaky, but I'm glad to get the input that it is reasonable that I'm annoyed by this on any level.

I'm going to have a face to face with her on this and tell her how this makes me feel/ how her indecision impacts me. (One of the posters upthread was right when he/she assumed we were texting.) In the future I'll use some of the strategies suggested of not telling her everything I'm doing so she can't invite herself along (although I have been doing that a lot lately, this week she just caught me unaware) and letting her know that I need to know by a certain date/time.

This whole thing just makes me really sad for her. Twice already she "broke" up with him because of his treating her so poorly, but neither break ups stuck. The last was two weeks ago and I really thought she had picked her self-esteem up off the floor and broke up for good. But I can't live her life for her....sigh

1. Friend's new boyfriend prefers to hang out with his friends, doesn't want to meet HER friends, only sees her if all his plans with his friends either never materialize or fall through.

2. Because of boyfriend's indecision as to with whom he'd rather spend his time, she puts off making plans with her own friends and expects them to wait until the last minute for her to decide.

Do I have it about right?

Yep, that sounds about right.

Thanks for all the great advice and validation that I am not just being petulant. I do know that this bothers me more because she's kowtowing to the BF rather than because she herself is flaky, but I'm glad to get the input that it is reasonable that I'm annoyed by this on any level.

I'm going to have a face to face with her on this and tell her how this makes me feel/ how her indecision impacts me. (One of the posters upthread was right when he/she assumed we were texting.) In the future I'll use some of the strategies suggested of not telling her everything I'm doing so she can't invite herself along (although I have been doing that a lot lately, this week she just caught me unaware) and letting her know that I need to know by a certain date/time.

This whole thing just makes me really sad for her. Twice already she "broke" up with him because of his treating her so poorly, but neither break ups stuck. The last was two weeks ago and I really thought she had picked her self-esteem up off the floor and broke up for good. But I can't live her life for her....sigh

I really do think some boundaries are the best thing for her. If you really want to, you could even use the time to gently point out that his behavior is not reasonable. I wouldn't say anything about how he's treating her specifically, just point out that you and your friends have to make plans in advance and can't be expected to put up with someone being last-minute all the time.

1. Friend's new boyfriend prefers to hang out with his friends, doesn't want to meet HER friends, only sees her if all his plans with his friends either never materialize or fall through.

2. Because of boyfriend's indecision as to with whom he'd rather spend his time, she puts off making plans with her own friends and expects them to wait until the last minute for her to decide.

Do I have it about right?

Yep, that sounds about right.

Thanks for all the great advice and validation that I am not just being petulant. I do know that this bothers me more because she's kowtowing to the BF rather than because she herself is flaky, but I'm glad to get the input that it is reasonable that I'm annoyed by this on any level.

I'm going to have a face to face with her on this and tell her how this makes me feel/ how her indecision impacts me. (One of the posters upthread was right when he/she assumed we were texting.) In the future I'll use some of the strategies suggested of not telling her everything I'm doing so she can't invite herself along (although I have been doing that a lot lately, this week she just caught me unaware) and letting her know that I need to know by a certain date/time.

This whole thing just makes me really sad for her. Twice already she "broke" up with him because of his treating her so poorly, but neither break ups stuck. The last was two weeks ago and I really thought she had picked her self-esteem up off the floor and broke up for good. But I can't live her life for her....sigh

Sounds like a good plan. Be prepared though, for the sad possibility that she may accuse you of "being jealous" of her relationship... I've seen this sort of thing happen before.

I've known people in this kind of a re-lationship. And in my experience, there's almost nothing you can say or do to change their behavior.

The BF -- he thinks he is doing your friend The Greatest Favor In The World by gracing her with his company when he feels like it. Your friend -- wants his "love" so desparately that she puts up with this, not realizing that what he is giving her isn't love at all.

When I've been the friend in this kind of situation, I've found that just completely backing off is the best thing to do for me. I end up just telling the friend, "Looks like your really busy with your BF and that's fine, so I'll put the ball in your court. If you want to hang out, just let me know and we'll see about making plans then!"

Inevitably, I don't hear back unless and until they really do break up. Yes, I've lost friendships that way, but really, it's not much of a friendship if one person is treating the other one this way.

I think it's probably worth your talking to her about this as you've planned to do, for the sake of your own life experience. Sometimes we just have to go through an experience to really understand how it works. But my advice is to go into this with your eyes wide open. Expect the worst. Do not expect or even hope that your friend will suddenly realize what a jerk BF is and how she is in the wrong for not only allowing him to do this to her but for allowing him to make her do this to her friends. If I'm wrong, so much the better. You'll be pleasantly surprised! But if I'm right, preparing for that will at least allow you to avoid having your feelings hurt worse than they already have been. Believe me, I've been there. I've felt that pain of thinking that years of friendship would at least have some influence but when it comes down to it, that desparate desire for love and acceptance by the BF pretty much wins out every time.

Also, your friend has you in the same position she is vis-a-vis her BF. If you were to stop: "No, sorry, Saturday is out. I'll call you some other time." then she would start to feel the consequences of her wishy-washiness.

In other words, if you push her, she might have to push on her boyfriend. I wouldn't say anything to her about her boyfriend. I would just make it clear that I wasn't on call.

Logged

I have enough lithium in my medicine cabinet to power three cars across a sizeable desert. Which makes me officially...Three Cars Crazy

Also, your friend has you in the same position she is vis-a-vis her BF. If you were to stop: "No, sorry, Saturday is out. I'll call you some other time." then she would start to feel the consequences of her wishy-washiness.

In other words, if you push her, she might have to push on her boyfriend. I wouldn't say anything to her about her boyfriend. I would just make it clear that I wasn't on call.

This.

I don't think talking to her about how her boyfriend is treating her and how that affects other aspects of her life will even be "heard". She'll hear the words, but reject their significance.

Also, your friend has you in the same position she is vis-a-vis her BF. If you were to stop: "No, sorry, Saturday is out. I'll call you some other time." then she would start to feel the consequences of her wishy-washiness.

In other words, if you push her, she might have to push on her boyfriend. I wouldn't say anything to her about her boyfriend. I would just make it clear that I wasn't on call.

This.

I don't think talking to her about how her boyfriend is treating her and how that affects other aspects of her life will even be "heard". She'll hear the words, but reject their significance.

Yes, we've had that convo when he's done much worse. My talk with her is just going to be about her indecision impacts me and I will most likely pull back from inviting her places even more than I've done in the last few months.