Tbh, regardless of whether or not the general public is able to purchase high powered firearms, if the powers that be wanted to impose some sort of new radical method of global control, they wouldn't need to disarm the public to do it. Like I said, if the military wanted to subdue a civilian population, it would just drone strike a particular area.

I don't support overturning the 2nd ammendment, I just think it should be at least moderately difficult for people to get firearms. There should definitely be a significant amount of red tape involved.

That has been the gist of my entire argument.

I have guns...but I wish I didn't have them...I wish I didn't feel like I needed them, but the truth is that because others have them, I feel like I need to have them.

I, however, unlike many others whom I have come in contact with, fully comprehend the type of destruction they are capable of wreaking upon a human being, and this is why I don't think they should be handed out like popcicles on a hot day.

Tbh, regardless of whether or not the general public is able to purchase high powered firearms, if the powers that be wanted to impose some sort new radical method of global control, they wouldn't need to disarm the public to do it. Like I said, if the military wanted to subdue a civilian population, it would just drone strike a particular area.

I don't support overturning the 2nd ammendment, I just think it should be at least moderately difficult for people to get firearms. There should definitely be a significant amount of red tape involved.

That has been the gist of my entire argument.

I have guns...but I wish I didn't have them...I wish I didn't feel like I needed them, but the truth is that because others have them, I feel like I need to have them.

I, however, unlike many others whom I have come in contact with, fully comprehend the type of destruction they are capable of wreaking upon a human being, and this is why I don't think they should be handed out like popcicles on a hot day.

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Yeah I know Jones can be delusional about shit, he just exaggerates the truth once any Big Media reports on something remotely conspiracy related. Sad thing is though he predicted some shit like this would happen upon this movie being released.

Also good on you for realizing the American gun system is beyond fucked, as so many don't.

To a certain degree, yes, I am a Statist. I think it should be up to government officials to regulate the economy and make sure that public goods are being provided to the populace which is all part of maintaining a middle class.

The existence of a middle class is what makes a developed country a developed country, and American governmental policies have been so adversely affected by big finance and business over the last 40 years, that the middle class here in America has essentially become the working poor due to the gross levels of inequality.

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See, the difference here is that you actually believe that the government is capable of sticking its nose into these things and not only NOT overstepping its bounds but also not completely fucking everything up. I don't think that it is capable of that and has proven so on several occasions.

You want the middle class to do well? Stop taxing them to death and tax EVERYONE equally. OMGFUCKINGBRILLIANT. Of course your idea of equality is taxing the "rich" so hard that the essentially become middle class.

Lol. Coming from someone who constantly calls me a "Marxist", this is hilarious.

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My shenanigans are cheeky and fun. Your shenanigans are tragic and cruel. Which makes them not shenanigans at all.

The difference is that when I call you a Marxist and a communist and all that I'm just having a little fun at your expense. Then you get sand in your vagina about it instead of just having a little fun back at mine (Pause?).

That's nice. Except you know as well as I that conversion kits can be easily acquired and applied to these weapons to make them fully auto.

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Which means that every single person that owns one of those guns must be doing that right? Come the fuck on dude. You're really just doing what you're accusing me of and being contrary for the sake of being contrary.

Let me explain something to you. You say you grew up in a deprived environment, but I grew up around "the hood". Kids around me were packing pistols in high school, and they weren't using them for "varmint control on the farm". I have lost numerous friends to gun violence and watched my friend's dad bleed out in his son's arms due to two .38 rounds in his gut.

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That is indeed tragic and if true then I'm sorry that you had to suffer that. However, I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER said that the only people using guns were using them for varmint control. I said the vast majority of people using semi-auto .223 chambered guns used them for that. I don't understand how you can be in college and your reading comprehension still be this fucking awful. Seriously, you should look into some Sylvan Learning Centers. Get tested for for learning disabilities. Something.

In your little fantasy world where Jiminy Cricket plays hopscotch with Tinker Bell and the Little Mermaid,, people buy guns and only use them on the farm for "varmint control". In reality, (and especially in urban environments), people buy guns and at some point use them to shoot other people. Or the guns they buy get stolen, and the thief or someone he sells the gun to uses it to shoot other people.

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Never said that. Also, you're wrong. The vast majority of people who buy guns never use them on people. There were over 10 million guns sold in the U.S. last year (Legally mind you). I can't find the exact FBI statistic for gun murders but given the previous year's number (2010 was 8,775) we'll say it's nine thousand. Do you know what percentage nine thousand is of ten million? 0.09%. 0.09% is fucking nothing. Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to marginalise the loss of human life at all but I think you're deliberately trying to blow the situation out of proportion in order to press your personal agenda.

Yes, I am a California resident, so the first time I made a legal purchase of a firearm I had to take a safety course and obtain a permit. I must say, however, I remember the safety course being pretty elementary, consisting of mostly common sense questions and answers.

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The one I attended was quite in depth. I guess it depends on where you are.

Maybe not, but many gun crimes involve short sighted thinking on behalf of the perpetrator, and in cases like that, a few days could make all the difference. A few days is enough time for someone's outlook to change entirely.

You can't imagine a scenario in which a person gets angry at someone, goes and buys a gun and shoots his target on the same day?

I've been a first hand witness to situations in which someone got into a fight with another cat, lost, then proclaimed "I'm going to get my gun", and sure enough, came back with a gun and started shooting. His house, however, could just as easily have been a gun store had we been in Colorado. Lol...

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So when I hypothesise it's laughable and stupid, but when YOU hypothesise it's valid and a reasonable argument. Damn it, why can't I remember what that word is?

Anyhow, that's not a common thing that's happening obviously or CNN and NBC News would be ALL over that shit.

More hypotheticals. I'll tell you one thing I know for sure. Stricter gun legislation prohibiting him from buying such deadly weapons as .40 calibre glocks would have prevented him from killing as many people as he did.

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You just did it in your last post! Still can't remember what the word for this is. It'll come to me.

I'd venture it was the rifle and the shotgun that did the vast majority of the damage. Again though, crazy people will do crazy shit regardless of waiting periods and safety classes. Which, by the way, I don't oppose mandatory safety classes for CCW holders.

Uhm, nope. All large corporations conspire to influence law makers to draft legislation that gives them opportunities to cut labor costs and dodge taxes at the expense of the average American citizen. There's no "some" involved.

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Yep. I can just see that evil CEO of Whammo sitting in his office making phone calls to senators so that he can keep his company's lock on frisbees and hoola hoops. Seriously? Do you even read the shit that you write?

I'm not arguing with you that "red tape" is bad. I'm saying that you're ignoring the greater of the evils.

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I would argue that I'm not ignoring a great evil. I'm just not laying blame where it doesn't belong. The corporations that do fucked up shit wouldn't be able to do any of the fucked up shit that they do if it weren't for fucking politicians and the State and even the people who vote them in allowing it. See what I'm getting at here?

It does. You pulled some stupid graph out of your ass that only showed data from "England and Wales" as opposed to the U.K. as a whole. I have provided numerous links to several different wikipedia pages that show that America's overall crime, gun crime, and intentional homicide by firearm rates are much higher than the U.K.'s, and that the two countries have only gotten farther apart since the U.K. enacted its gun legislation.

You're arguing out of pure obstinacy now.

Have fun with that.

The bottom line is that guns don't kill people....people kill people....guns just make it a helluvalot easier.

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California inarguably has some of the strictest laws in the nation regarding guns and in 2010 had the highest number of gun crimes in the country. No, you're right. Those laws totally work. Actually, if you look at this map of U.S. gun murders in 2010 you'll notice something pretty fucking telling:The gun crime map of America: interactive | News | guardian.co.uk

Aside from Texas, which is having serious issues with drug cartels because of the bullshit war on drugs, the two states with the highest gun murder rates in the U.S. are the two with the four and five star Brady Campaign grades (Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence). How do you not see this shit and think "Well, fuck. Maybe it doesn't work after all"? I know you ADORE Europe because it's on its Socialist march right now but I'm telling you America should not model itself after them. America is a completely different place with a completely different people and a completely different culture. Just because something "appears to work" there doesn't mean that it will work here. Especially considering that our population is larger than any single European country's.

BTW, there total numbers of gun crimes in the U.S. has steadily declined with the the rest of crime over the past forty years. It's not like there's some epidemic going on. The number has gone down and will continue to go down w/o enacting any new laws regarding guns.

See, the difference here is that you actually believe that the government is capable of sticking its nose into these things and not only NOT overstepping its bounds but also not completely fucking everything up. I don't think that it is capable of that and has proven so on several occasions.

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You're still blind. The government is no longer capable of adequately providing public goods, but it's because its strings are being pulled by the corporate and banking sectors. Once again, you demonstrate your uncanny ability to plant yourself firmly behind the smoke screen and not budge.

You want the middle class to do well? Stop taxing them to death and tax EVERYONE equally. OMGFUCKINGBRILLIANT. Of course your idea of equality is taxing the "rich" so hard that the essentially become middle class.

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Once again, you need to do some reading.

Adam Smith, the author and economist who wrote "The Wealth of Nations" and is considered the father of modern capitalism advocated a higher tax rate for the wealthy in a capitalist economy. He understood, just as any sane person should understand, that without some form of wealth redistribution which offers those at the bottom a helping hand, that social mobility becomes impossible, and the middle class disappears.

HAH! YOU FINALLY UNDERSTAND!

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I take it you completely missed the last two words of that paragraph. You know....the part where I talked about people killing people with guns.

That is indeed tragic and if true then I'm sorry that you had to suffer that. However, I NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER said that the only people using guns were using them for varmint control.

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No....you're just stating that it's worth the cost of human lives lost in shootings for farmers to use assault weapons for "varmint control".

And please stop with all the technical rants about how guns that farmers use "aren't on the same platform" and "don't use the same round".

You sound like someone desperately trying to extol the practical uses of a guillotine.

"I know that this guillotine can be used to decapitate people, but there are thousands of responsible guillotine owners who only use them for slicing watermelons" is essentially saying the same thing as "I know this assault weapon looks scary, but it really only fires a .22/3 round, isn't fully automatic, and many people only use them to hunt gophers on farms", as if that shit somehow negates its capacity for killing human beings.

Lol....your argument is pure satire.

I'm not trying to marginalise the loss of human life at all

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Really? You say you're not trying to marginalize the loss of human life at all? And yet that's all you've really been doing throughout this entire argument. Hmmmm.....there's a term for people who do things like that...I just can't quite remember what it is right now....

So when I hypothesise it's laughable and stupid, but when YOU hypothesise it's valid and a reasonable argument. Damn it, why can't I remember what that word is?

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I never put forth a hypothesis. I have actually witnessed people engage in the behavior I described, (getting angry, going to get a gun, and coming back and shooting at people)...

Btw, I am not a hypocrite because hypocrisy requires concurrent self contradictory action. Let me explain because you seem to be experiencing difficulty understanding the definition of the word.

If I was currently going around stealing guns, and then coming on this site and yapping about how bad it is for criminals to steal guns, that would be hypocritical.

If I had engaged in criminal behavior in the past, such as stealing guns, and then, years later, came on this site and expressed my uniquely qualified opinion on how detrimental stolen guns can be to a community, (which is the case), that would not be hypocritical at all.

This is why many social workers are people with criminal histories who have proven themselves to be rehabilitated.

If the crazy fucker had to wait 11 days to get his guns he would have just went to the store to get them sooner. Makes total sense.

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Hmmm..****ease tell me if I'm confused, but if the state of Colorado had a waiting period, that means that he would have had to wait the 11 days no matter where he bought the guns....right...? That's what a "waiting period" means...it's the time it takes for the gun retailer you're attempting to purchase a gun from to send your information to the Department of Justice and for the Department of Justice to subsequently respond...I'm pretty sure your statement makes no sense...how would he have been able to "get his guns from the store quicker" if his state had a waiting period?

Yep. I can just see that evil CEO of Whammo sitting in his office making phone calls to senators so that he can keep his company's lock on frisbees and hoola hoops. Seriously? Do you even read the shit that you write?

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Yeah. Large corporations have no interest in influencing law makers to provide tax loopholes. They don't do that. Whatever could I have been thinking? Dear me, I must be euphoric. Please disregard my fatuousness.

I would argue that I'm not ignoring a great evil. I'm just not laying blame where it doesn't belong. The corporations that do fucked up shit wouldn't be able to do any of the fucked up shit that they do if it weren't for fucking politicians and the State and even the people who vote them in allowing it. See what I'm getting at here?

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Yes, yes. You're quite right. Corporations don't prey on the human condition of politicians and use their financial leverage to make it impossible for any politician to get elected who doesn't cater to their whimsy. Once again, I must be experiencing euphoria. Could there be something in the water?

California inarguably has some of the strictest laws in the nation regarding guns and in 2010 had the highest number of gun crimes in the country. No, you're right. Those laws totally work. Actually, if you look at this map of U.S. gun murders in 2010 you'll notice something pretty fucking telling:The gun crime map of America: interactive | News | guardian.co.uk

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Yes...this begs the question, which came first...the chicken or the egg? In other words, was the gun crime rate in California high before gun legislation was enacted, or was gun legislation enacted with no real prior motive?

Being that California has had a history of violent worker uprisings since the time of the Gold Rush and has undergone many different political conflicts, upheavals and struggles associated with violent incidents long before the Capitulation of Cahuenga when the Mexican Dons and rancheros finally surrendered the territory to the Americans, I'd say that the gun violence was present long before the legislation was enacted.

BTW, there total numbers of gun crimes in the U.S. has steadily declined with the the rest of crime over the past forty years. It's not like there's some epidemic going on. The number has gone down and will continue to go down w/o enacting any new laws regarding guns.

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Yeah. Once again....the United States is NUMBER ONE in overall crime in the world among developed and developing nations; - you - fucking - myopic - fuck;

something is weird about this shit. how does an unemployed college student afford expensive ass military weapons? dude had military booby traps set in his home lol

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This.

He had military grade shit not available to the public and no money even if he could access it, yet no explanation to the source of income, they dont say he was maxing out credit cards or anything. So either his family payed for all his weapons and contributed to this mass shooting uknowingly (highly doubtful) or its the US governemnt. (oklahoma city bombing) Jus like the one little truck blew up that whole building.... GTFOH.

Im not buying that shit. lol this would be a good cover up tho. yall are telling me dude was decked in a suit like he ironman to protect himself from cops than he just gives himself up when he sees them? this shit staged.