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I haven't read/played Total Eclipse at all, so I went into this fresh.

As soon as I saw "1997" though, all I can think of was "ah geez, this anime is gonna be hell on Earth".
I don't recognize these characters, and if I recall, this was the start of the biggest bloodshed on Japan soil.

Overall the animation direction didn't impress me.
I hope they do get the ball rolling good, I really would love to see Muv-luv and Alt get animated eventually.

Doesn't that irony extends to every anime viewer who has not read Muv-Luv, or indeed, even heard of the entire franchise. which I take it is the majority of the viewerbase right now? For viewers like me, Total Eclipse is our first exposure to the series.

Yes, it does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by novalysis

That being said, after reading up a little of the back-story, I dare say being sentenced to the world of Muv-Luv Alternative for a few years might be one of the most amusing, if also incredibly sadistic possible punishments haters of the Generic Harem Protagonist Syndrome might want to recommend for bland male leads. Should this anime prove popular enough. there's a possibility of fanfiction threads being made dedicated to such Crossover projects.

It's practically the whole point of the VN trilogy.

Just a message for anyone else reading this: Do not read summaries for Muv-Luv! You'll get spoiled beyond your wildest dreams, which isn't worth whatever extra information you get for Total Eclipse. Just enjoy the darn anime, as it seems to do a good enough job of explaining what's happening, and ask the members here for any extra info.

Quote:

Originally Posted by novalysis

Also, I think if Muv-Luv Extra was animated, instead of a Sidestory of a Sequel to an AU of a Generic Harem Visual Novel, it'll be getting exactly the same reaction as Medaka Box got last season, and Muv-Luv fans moaning that with the BD pre-orders it's getting, we'd never get to watch the really good meat of the Franchise. Sounds familiar? That's what manga readers said about Medaka Box recently, TGWOK just awhile further back, and I imagine Negima during it's disastrous double adaptation unfaithfulness.

From what I've been reading, both here, and through quick googling, it seems that the main problem with an anime adaptation of Muv-Luv is that it shares the same issue with some genre shifting manga stories with botched adaptations, of which Negima was one particularly bad offender, among several. That of genre shift. And when the pre-genre shift material could easily consume an entire Cour (if not more), that's a real killer. Madoka Magica, for comparison took three episodes for a genre shift, and before that, it was getting rained hard for being boring and generic. I think the main lesson is that if you want to adapt such stories with genre shifts after considerable pre-genre shift material, it might be best to start at a spot long after the genre shift as a first anime project, if you want to test the waters. I actually applaud the decision makers behind this anime for starting In Media Res, so to speak.

Should Eclipse sell well enough, I think we might see a full adaptation of the entire Muv-Luv Universe, since well, Eclipse is a Side Story after all. But of course, it's Mecha, and Mecha normally sells quite well. So, I imagine it's also in part a commercial decision. Start with Extra, and Muv-Luv will bomb - this is a given, since there's no other anime adaptation whose source material leapt from Lightheated to Dark has ever succeeded commercially, unless the genre shift was executed within three episodes.

My theory is that they are testing the waters here, and if Eclipse sells well, they'd move on to adapting the entire VN series, from Extra to Unlimited to Alternative in Anime form, or if they are that creative, merging Extra as Counter-point Flashbacks to Unlimited and Alternative. Since Eclipse already informs audiences of what to expect, a Muv Luv Extra adaptation might be a rarity- an actual Pre-genre shift story that's regarded as a masterful counterpoint to the rest of the Muv Luv franchise, which every other story with big genre shifts have tried to do (leap from Harem/Comedy/Cutsie Moe Slice of Life to something more serious), and has mostly failed, with the exception of Madoka (from Cutsie Moe Generic Mahou Shoujo 12359 to the Evangelion of Magical Girls), though even more experienced viewers of anime might be able to point some other examples.

That's a pretty elaborate way to state what a lot of us VN refugees have been thinking about the Total Eclipse anime.

I agree that it is a clever business decision. While I'm not as pessimistic as you are about an adaptation of Extra, as I think trimming some of the more unfun moments and condensing the storyline would make Extra much better, animating Total Eclipse first was a much more pragmatic path to take. And it works well for VN readers like me, because we get to see more of our favorite universe!

Also, I don't consider what happened in Madoka Magica to be a genre shift. It was a slight mood shift, but the first two episodes of the anime had a generally serious and pensive atmosphere anyway. Very few people expected it to be "Cutsie Moe Generic Mahou Shoujo 12359". And maybe my memory is bad, but I don't remember it getting "heavily rained on". There were some haters as usual, but most of them popped up after the third episode hyped the fandom up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by novalysis

Finally, I wish for Total Eclipse and the Muv Luv of Alternative to be to Muv Luv Extra what the Nanoha Franchise was to Triangle Hearts, beyond the VN Medium alone. Since CR is licensing it, I imagine that Muv Luv Eclipse is going to the first time that most of the English Speaking audience is going to be exposed to this franchise.

The problem I have with this is that many newcomers to Muv-Luv who have experienced Total Eclipse first will associate the title Muv-Luv with what they've seen in Total Eclipse. It's all fine and dandy for people like me and you who know better, but I'm afraid that if an Extra anime comes around, there will be a lot of secondaries who will clamor "Where are my mecha? Where are my aliens and despair? THIS ISN'T MUV-LUV!!"

The problem I have with this is that many newcomers to Muv-Luv who have experienced Total Eclipse first will associate the title Muv-Luv with what they've seen in Total Eclipse. It's all fine and dandy for people like me and you who know better, but I'm afraid that if an Extra anime comes around, there will be a lot of secondaries who will clamor "Where are my mecha? Where are my aliens and despair? THIS ISN'T MUV-LUV!!"

Well, due to your response to me, I made a point to talk to a friend briefly about Muv-Luv, and I also looked it up on Wiki. I was vaguely familiar with the term "Muv-Luv" and knew it was somehow related to anime. Apparently, it's only relation is being in every Japanese otaku entertainment form except anime. Until now, of course.

I made a point to avoid reading the Wiki summaries of various installments of Muv-Luv, and just focused on the sheer number of entries in the Muv-Luv Franchise, which is rather large.

I'm usually an anime-only guy. I've dabbled slightly in VNs and manga and light novels, but not to any really significant extent. So I'm sure for other anime-only guys and gals, this show here will obviously be their introduction to Muv-Luv.

Will we be potentially disappointed with a major genre shift for any other Muv-Luv anime? Sure, but that couldn't be helped. It's quite possible I'll have little to no interest in any other Muv-Luv anime shows, as I'm not that big on harem anime (at least not as a primary genre).

But I'm sure that for complaints like "This is not Muv-Luv!" just point people to Wiki, and show all the Muv-Luv properties that predate this anime, and I'm sure that most people will realize that this anime isn't necessarily the definitive Muv-Luv.

Heck, the title itself is a dead giveaway. Muv-Luv Alternative. Well, clearly then, it must be an alternative to some other Muv-Luv that came before it.

Well, I have started slugging through Extra before the TE anime started airing. I have laid my first foot into the franchise through figurines. orz

Have fun. You're in for one hell of a ride. And avoid spoilers at all costs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Will we be potentially disappointed with a major genre shift for any other Muv-Luv anime? Sure, but that couldn't be helped. It's quite possible I'll have little to no interest in any other Muv-Luv anime shows, as I'm not that big on harem anime (at least not as a primary genre).

And if an Extra anime does come out, you'll find me trying to convince you to watch it. But that's an issue for another day that might not even come.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

But I'm sure that for complaints like "This is not Muv-Luv!" just point people to Wiki, and show all the Muv-Luv properties that predate this anime, and I'm sure that most people will realize that this anime isn't necessarily the definitive Muv-Luv.

Yes, I'll do that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Heck, the title itself is a dead giveaway. Muv-Luv Alternative. Well, clearly then, it must be an alternative to some other Muv-Luv that came before it.

It's also an alternative scenario to Muv-Luv Extra (Juliet Hotel Charlie I hated Extra, even the fan translators hated it) and Unlimited (which is generally better but takes too long to get into since you need to clear Extra first).

I have never facepalmed so many times reading a VN as I did with Extra. And this despite a gaming diet of VNs (since, when I first started computer gaming, the only games that would run on my Pentium 386 with 24MB ram were C&C, RA1, Starcraft and VN Eroge , and whatever DOS games I could find).

__________________

~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

The problem I have with this is that many newcomers to Muv-Luv who have experienced Total Eclipse first will associate the title Muv-Luv with what they've seen in Total Eclipse. It's all fine and dandy for people like me and you who know better, but I'm afraid that if an Extra anime comes around, there will be a lot of secondaries who will clamor "Where are my mecha? Where are my aliens and despair? THIS ISN'T MUV-LUV!!"

Depending on how good the directing is, what if Muv Luv Extra was presented in Flashback form instead? From what I'm reading here, the story of Muv Luv Extra only might work as a Counterpoint to the grimness of Muv Luv in general. Of course, there's no general discuss whether Muv Luv will get future spinoff thread yet, so I guess it depends on how well Eclipse fairs. And it's early days right now, anime wise.

The problem is that part of what gives Unlimited it's appeal is it takes the Hero of Extra and throws him out from a harem comedy into a grimdark DESPAIR THE FLOOR IS MADE OF BETA NOMNOMNOM series. He's stuck in a world similar to his, but not his own.

Unlimited is a good story, actually. The problem is that to get to Unlimited, you have to get through Extra first.

Also, I think I need to revise my grimdark estimates - I've been playing Spec Ops: The Line, aka Heart of Dubai: Sandpocalypse now. It's mindfuck grimdark on a level that I find actually more disturbing than Alternative, and a brutal deconstruction of military shooters and hard men making hard decisions.

After that, I don't think Total Eclipse will be too much of a problem. At least the grimdark isn't as insidiously mindfuck as Spec Ops: The Line (average/decent gameplay, awesome story that completely and constantly fucks with you).

__________________

~Speaking my mind, even when it costs me~One must forgive one's enemies, but not before they are hanged.Heinrich Heine.

The problem I have with this is that many newcomers to Muv-Luv who have experienced Total Eclipse first will associate the title Muv-Luv with what they've seen in Total Eclipse. It's all fine and dandy for people like me and you who know better, but I'm afraid that if an Extra anime comes around, there will be a lot of secondaries who will clamor "Where are my mecha? Where are my aliens and despair? THIS ISN'T MUV-LUV!!"

Eh, they'll recover. Just look at iDOLM@STER. There were a lot of Xenoglossia watchers going "WTF? Where's my mecha?" for a couple of days, then things died down and they either enjoyed it or wandered of.

Since CR is licensing it, I imagine that Muv Luv Eclipse is going to the first time that most of the English Speaking audience is going to be exposed to this franchise.

I wonder how many people are looking at the title and thinking, "Well, I never saw Muv-Luv Alternative, so I guess I won't watch this." And even if you search for background information, it's not clear that TE will be comprehensible without playing the games, which is going to be a daunting task to the average anime watcher (switching your system to Japanese, installing a patch, and then playing 40+ hours of a game).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

It's also an alternative scenario to Muv-Luv Extra (Juliet Hotel Charlie I hated Extra, even the fan translators hated it) and Unlimited (which is generally better but takes too long to get into since you need to clear Extra first).

I have never facepalmed so many times reading a VN as I did with Extra. And this despite a gaming diet of VNs (since, when I first started computer gaming, the only games that would run on my Pentium 386 with 24MB ram were C&C, RA1, Starcraft and VN Eroge , and whatever DOS games I could find).

The choice of which routes you had to complete to unlock Extra didn't help -- sadly, if there is an anime adaptation, those are the two that will get the focus and not the ones that are actually somewhat interesting like Chizuru and Marimo. The game would've been much improved if you could get into Extra by completing any route.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wild Goose

The problem is that part of what gives Unlimited it's appeal is it takes the Hero of Extra and throws him out from a harem comedy into a grimdark DESPAIR THE FLOOR IS MADE OF BETA NOMNOMNOM series. He's stuck in a world similar to his, but not his own.

I also think that setting up the female characters in an ordinary setting first was a good idea even if the execution wasn't the best, though that's something that would work well in flash-sideways.

I think this background about the games as it relates to the anime has been somewhat useful (at least to know how things are connected and what people should avoid, etc.), but I just want to remind everyone that detailed discussion of the game, along with speculation of how other games could/should be adapted, should go to the game thread instead. Some of the comments above are skirting into more information than anime-only viewers need, so I'd kind of like to put a stop to that before it goes much further.

The bad: Bland and uninspiring background. Aliens attack the earth for the n-th time, and the creators don't even try to come up with a reason, the aliens attack just because they're bored or something. We don't get to see the aliens either (not that it would make things better). In short, it's just an poor excuse to have mecha fights. Not that there would be much point in the mecha fights, seeing how they're displayed as having no chance against the aliens.

There's a reason alright, it's given at the end of Alternative. [mod edit: removed game hint]

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-04 at 21:21.
Reason: removed game hint

This doesn't really help the anime-only viewer, because a) the anime didn't deem it necessary to explain (yet, anyway), and b) you were dangling a spoiler in front of him like "oh there's a good reason all right; I can't tell you the details, but I'll just tease that it's a good one".

At the end of the day, I think the perspective of the anime-only viewer is valuable too, and doesn't necessarily need to be excused away by "if only you played the games, you'd know..." Of course, I'm not saying it's a problem at all for an anime to be appreciated more by existing franchise fans than by newcomers... but I think we'll certainly see some of both in this thread.