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*walks out with the soap box and calls everyone's attention - steps on soap box*

Caching Logs... What are they for? Anyone have an answer?

Lately all I have see in logs are negate comments and I am tired of it, completely tired of it. Enough so that I just don't want to cache anymore.
Why do people cache if they are just going to post a negative log? Why post at all? to get a smiley?
It is so dis-heartening to come online to post your log and find the log, or two logs before yours, full of negativity.
I can understand if you type a heat of the moment type of log... but seriously e-mail the person directly, and complain, or constructively log your concerns.

anyhow...on another note....I love it when people write stories in their logs....not just on my caches that I have hidden but other caches that I find. It is neat to read other peoples experiences caching the same cache.

Hey I hear ya, I thought geocaching was supposed to be fun and I try to tell a little interesting story in my logs and I like to read others. If a person is warning other cachers about a danger then thats okay to note but complaining or whining on a log is not the best way to handle your frustration. Maybe forums are?! Sure contacting the owner directly if there is a problem can be a good idea...but aren't we supposed to be respectful to the environment while we are out and about caching..and shouldn't being respectful carry over into our logs? Thats my thoughs anyways..now I will get off my soap box...oops I wasnt even on one...I was sitting down the whole time. Oh well (yawn) time to go to bed...new caches come early in the morning sometimes!

Geocaching is a high-tech treasure hunting game played throughout the world by adventure seekers equipped with GPS devices. The basic idea is to locate hidden containers, called geocaches, outdoors and then share your experiences online. Geocaching is enjoyed by people from all age groups, with a strong sense of community and support for the environment.

SO....folks share their experiences good/bad or indifferent that is what the logs are all about.

If they didn't like the cache they will tell you & if they did they will tell you that too. The best thing is is everyone loves it. Then you know you did a great job in hiding a cache or not.......any questions???

I am beginning to believe that you are trying to egg me on? Wondering why you would post something as silly as that, when you know that I have been caching for over a year my dear ?

I mean NEGATIVE and DEROGATORY... something that can be downright RUDE! I can understand, simple dislikes for a cache in POLITE tones.

I noticed my spelling errors in my previous post.

I haven't cached (ok maybe a few here and there) in the last 6 months due to my illness mainly, but wow, to find this remark Solomon, you simply amaze me. Makes me wonder if I should bother at all...cause people like you seem to be popping up everywhere.

_________________ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.

I too thin that the negativity is growing at an overwhelming pace. I understand that criticism is a good thing but the WAY it is given out is a HUGE factor in how it comes across. I think that logs can be for good feedback and bad feedback but it doesn't have to be rude feedback!

There are some people that just thrive at belittling others...can't control it, we just have to learn to ignore it.

I guess most, including myself, seem to follow the old adage "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all". I always try to leave a fairly polite log even if I didn't enjoy the cache, however polite doesn't have to mean all rainbows and butterflies. If the cache location is a garbage dump, or a potential hazard, I see no reason not to mention it in a respectful way. I would hope that a finder of one of my hides would tell me that there was an issue or that they hated it for whatever reason. Constructive criticism is always appreciated. Personally I prefer not to be an ostrich.

The trouble with dealing with random people is that no matter how well your intentions are there is always someone that will take offence to it. I read SOLOMN's post above many times, wondering what I missed in her comment, but I am not sure what she said that caused you issue. I guess thats the way it is when you can't see someones body language/demeanor when its just a typed comment.

As for rude or derogatory logs, they should be removed by the CO and reported to groundspeak.

_________________Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

The trouble with dealing with random people is that no matter how well your intentions are there is always someone that will take offence to it. I read SOLOMN's post above many times, wondering what I missed in her comment, but I am not sure what she said that caused you issue. I guess thats the way it is when you can't see someones body language/demeanor when its just a typed comment

You didn't miss anything Savant9. It was copied directly from the opening of the Groundspeak home page.
I've been caching for 3 years, have logged around 1,700 finds and have never written what could be described as an abusive/offensive log.

Wow, I thought this thread had died way back in September, all of a sudden it has come back to life.

I don’t know quite what the author of this thread had in mind when she mentions all the negative logs that she has/had been reading. Perhaps an example would have been helpful, thereby giving those who have posted to this forum something to base their comments on, otherwise it is all speculation as to what was meant as to the type of log she describes.

I have logged well in excess of 1000 caches alongside Solonm, we have sought and found caches from one end of the scale to the other, good hides, bad hides, those which were doing damage and those which were well thought out, and were a pleasure to find. Then there were the caches at the other end of the scale, on most occasions we discussed how we should respond to such caches in our logs, if a danger existed, then for sure it was identified in the log, there may or may not have been an email sent to the cache owner personally, in some cases one or the other of us did just that. Regardless I have never read a log Solonm has written that could in any way be considered to be RUDE or DEROGATORY.

There have been few responses to this thread, I believe that is a good thing, for it is also my belief that this type of thread serves little or no purpose, and since it has now taken on a personal note, I think that is reason enough for it to go no further.

*walks out with the soap box and calls everyone's attention - steps on soap box*

Caching Logs... What are they for? Anyone have an answer?

Lately all I have see in logs are negative comments and I am tired of it, completely tired of it. Enough so that I just don't want to cache anymore.
Why do people cache if they are just going to post a negative log? Why post at all? to get a smiley?
*thanks everyone for listening to rant - steps off soap box, and walks away*

Bestred, I love your opening and closing, it's very creative! People could do this on cache logs and say some really positive things... from their podium (instead of soap box).

*walks out with milk crate and hollers over to Bestred on her soapbox*

I know that the log(s) you've lost sleep over are from people who lurk around these forums so I want to thank you for coming forward to say "Hey, this isn't on!". You did the right thing by speaking out and I hope that the logs over yonder are improving. We had a challenge on VIGPS to improve the logs over here, but mainly to get rid of the cut and paste type that are especially prolific after a cache blitz or cache machine.

*thanks Bestred for listening - steps off milk crate, and paddles back to the island*

We had a challenge on VIGPS to improve the logs over here, but mainly to get rid of the cut and paste type that are especially prolific after a cache blitz or cache machine.

I agree with you there Mrs. L

As I own a few caches in the same area, I tend to get a cacher do a number of mine as they work their way through the area.
the log entires on the web page vary from the cheap "working on caches in the area" pasted 10 times, all the way down to the pathetic "." period mark as their cache log.

As a cache owner, what do we expect should be in a cache log? Maybe expecting anything to be written is expecting too much - shouldn't they be free to write what they want?
But as a cache finder, shouldn't we extend some courtesy to the owner by writing a genuine "thanks" in the cache log?

Wow, I thought this thread had died way back in September, all of a sudden it has come back to life.

Solomon posted her post and I came on last night finally and read it, that is what happened

Regardless I have never read a log Solomon has written that could in any way be considered to be RUDE or DEROGATORY.

That comment wasn't towards her.... read my comment below that...

There have been few responses to this thread, I believe that is a good thing, for it is also my belief that this type of thread serves little or no purpose, and since it has now taken on a personal note, I think that is reason enough for it to go no further.

It may not matter to you, but it does matter to me and it seems to matter to a couple of others in this thread it seems. I just think that others are afraid to speak up and what is the term 'rock the boat'.
As for it going further...why wouldn't it? It is a honest post about logs. There is nothing personal about it.

I am unable to give examples to the rude and inappropriate geocache logs as that would show who these culprits are, and I am sure they don't want to be outted. Especially not here on the BCGA board. That would be quite embarrassing. Even so, I am sure excuses would be made as to why it is ok to say things like that to someone online in front of others that way.
(makes you wonder though if they would actually say it to your face?)(being the cache owner that is...hmmmmmm? )
Oh and NO, Solomon, not EVERYONE likes it when people belittle your caches on a log, so please don't say that EVERYONE likes this. (unless I misunderstood that)

TJGuy98 - yup...that is what it is about....being courteous!!

_________________ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.

I really don't understand this.......and the last post was impossible to quote. If Bestred has a problem with any logs I have posted on her caches then she should send me a PM...I doubt she has an issue with my logs on her caches or those of her husband.
I really don't understand what this thread is all about but it is on the slippery slope of cacher bashing IMHO.
cheers & I'm going to bed & read a book

We had a challenge on VIGPS to improve the logs over here, but mainly to get rid of the cut and paste type that are especially prolific after a cache blitz or cache machine.

I agree with you there Mrs. L

As I own a few caches in the same area, I tend to get a cacher do a number of mine as they work their way through the area.
the log entires on the web page vary from the cheap "working on caches in the area" pasted 10 times, all the way down to the pathetic "." period mark as their cache log.

As a cache owner, what do we expect should be in a cache log? Maybe expecting anything to be written is expecting too much - shouldn't they be free to write what they want?
But as a cache finder, shouldn't we extend some courtesy to the owner by writing a genuine "thanks" in the cache log?

It's all about courtesy......

Hmm, re-reading my post I feel I should restate what I mean...
Some cachers do write wonderful cache logs both in the cache book and on the web page. Those ones are always appreciated; many log entries are standard wording where the finders are sincere in their thanks for me taking the time to put out a cache. No problem with those entries..

My original comment was directed to those lack lustre cache logs that appear in our mailbox like a prize waiting to be opened, only to find the prize didn't live up to the hype we imagined. I think as people we generally want others to express gratitude when we do something for them. It's human nature to want to feel appreciated.

When that gratitude isn't delivered we feel slighted, even if none was intended. We know we shouldn't feel that way, we'd never admit it to anyone, but that feeling is still there.

It is obvious that BestRed has encountered some bad experiences regarding logs that were negative in nature. This being the case, would it be reasonable to ask if the negative logs are a trend with a particular cacher or cachers, if someone consistently post these types of logs on a wide variety of caches then perhaps they are indeed in need of some guiding light. If the logs are in response to a particular type of cache or a particular type of hide, then I would suggest that this person should simply not do those caches, and even more importantly I would suggest the cache owner ignore the logs unless they are more than just negative in content. In my previous post it was not my intent to suggest that any particular cacher be identified with the issue of these logs, however I still believe an example of the logs content without identifying the individual would have been helpful.

Not all geocache seekers are nice people, on the other hand not all cache owners are nice people either, this game does not require that you pass some kind of a test to participate, with that being the case, we can expect a full range of logs describing one's experience when logging a cache. I have found for the most part that good caches elicit good logs regardless of who is logging the cache, caches that do not measure up to the expectations of the seeker may draw a log that is uncomplimentary toward the cache, if this is an honest attempt to convey ones experience then perhaps we as cache owners should say " hey is there something I am missing here, and can I change something to make this a better experience for everyone". If 99% of the logs are positive in nature, then the cache owner must surmise the seeker that posts a less than complimentary log, may for whatever reason not have had a good experience, and may indeed be describing a different cache entirely, it has happened. If the log deals with something other than the cache itself or the location, or is personal in nature, then that log should not be allowed to clutter up anyone's cache page, and the owner should ask that it be removed or modified, try to ignore all the others.

We should all be offended by certain types of logs posted to cache pages, but we must take great care in decrying those logs when posting to this forum. When we post a topic we should certainly expect responses, we must take care to not get personal in our replies to those responses, we should not have our responses take on a condescending tone, nor through our comments implicate another individual as being part of the problem, nor posting a reply that would appear to perpetuate that image.

This forum started with a cacher being upset with logs she was encountering, she has used this forum to express that upset, which she is most certainly entitled to do. She is suggesting more respect and courtesy be shown in logging caches, others have echoed that sentiment, but lest we forget folks, what we suggest is wrong in cache logs is equally wrong in these forum posts.

Please everyone do not get personal with your posts and reply's, there is "no" place for that in these forums, and for sure Solonm does not deserve to be made to appear to be someone other than what she truly is, and that would be a great person, who loves this game more than most folks I have met.

Be as respectful and courteous here as you expect folks to be when logging your caches.

Yes I have had a couple of negative posts (2 at the most) but have read and seen more than that, many more on other caches.

I guess I should have named this post something different...though others seemed to understand what I meant and posted properly on the topic.

Being courteous is a good thing, and yes, I am always courteous to others, and will always treat others, as they treat and have done so in this post

I just feel that there should be protocols in place for logging finds. Any rude or negative CO bashing should be immediately deleted with a warning to the person who logged. If the logger needs to be negative or rude...email the CO.

Logs are for the re-telling of your experience of finding the cash not critiquing it.
IF there are saftey issues, then of course, please let other cachers know in the log, ie....barbed wire, glass, deep mud, etc.
NOT...this is a crappy cache, Why Here?,between this and garbage who can tell the difference? or slamming the CO.

_________________ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.

My logs tend to tell the story of my experience. I'd love people to read my logs, cache owners and other alike since I do put effort into writing them. The vast majority are positive, and often with a touch of humour. They are the log I like to read on my caches.

But occasionally I come across a cache where the experience was not pleasant, or a little dangerous for either myself, or my son. I mention that in my log. If I DNF a cache, I write a log for that also, which is often borne out of frustration. I've gone back and edited one such log afterwards because my frustration bordered on rudeness.

But one man's polite is not another man's. What I view as an appropriate and decent log is not another person's. And to be honest, sometimes even though I would never say it myself, I'm am glad for another cacher's honesty. One log I read some while back was something along the lines of "this cache did not seem to be put in an appropriate/thoughtful place" [paraphrase]. I had the exact same thought myself when looking amongst the doggy do and broken glass but did not write it in my log. Should I have? Could I have said that politely? And even if I thought it was polite, would the cache owner agree?

Finally, recently a cache was placed in an area known as a notorious gay stroll. I wrote a note to that effect on the cache page as a safety (or a be prepared for what you may encounter on the way to this cache) warning. The cache owner DELETED my note. It was not rude, it was factual. I thought it was rude the cache owner deleted my comment. I'm sure they thought it was rude I mentioned it at all...

I don't believe derogatory logs posted in public are the right way to go. It only causes bad feelings and makes cache owners dig in their heels. Unless there is an immediate safety or environmental concern, the best way to solve the problem of a bad placement is to contact the cache owner directly.

This doesn't mean the cache owner will respond to your concerns. If that happens, it is imperative that you don't continue to harass the cache owner. The truth of the matter is if you have a legitimate concern, many other cachers will feel the same way. Over time, the cache owner will get the hint.

This is why it is important that the geocaching community as a whole steps in. It is not right to praise a bad placement. On several occasions I've contacted a cache owner about a bad placement only to find a string of people who found the cache behind me saying "great cache." That is the most frustrating of all.

Logging online is a way of alerting fellow geocachers of any potential problems with finding a cache. For example, if heavy rains have created a swamp or a wash out on the trail making it impossible to get to the cache, it is a courtesy to other cachers to let them know of these hazards. The logs weren't originally designed to be a critique on the cache itself.

Having said that, it's always nice to share the overall experience with others. Cache owners generally like that.

I find as long as you don't take anything personally, we all get along. My math teacher loves to make fun of and insult his students, never in a racial, sexist or anything like that kind of way. As long as you don't take it personally it is really funny.(if you're wondering why I'm writing this right now, it is because I'm sick ) I have pretty well not had any criticizing logs on my caches, but would accept them almost whatever they say, except something extreme.
In fact, I almost welcome criticism as it helps me improve my caches and make them better, constructive criticism is what it is, it HELPS!

[quote="geodug"
If you really had a post deleted here in BCGA, without notice, we should have an inquisition.[/quote]

I noticed 2 posts were deleted I had wondered how Jacquel deleted their post as that doesn't seem to be an option in these forums..... unless an administrator steps in because there is something rude or abusive in the nature of the post.
hmmmm

I wrote a rather long reply last night and hit send before I proof read it. Needless to say, I wasn't happy with what I wrote. Being late I just edited it down to a smack on my head (which is what I was doing to myself for being silly) and asked admin to delete the post before anyone saw it. Obviously someone did.

Well I count 3 posts that have been deleted, but then I was never very good at math. Number one would be your first "non proof read one" Scruff, your second "smack on the head" and of course the post by Jacquel, who returns to the forums only to find "horror of horrors" his log has been deleted along with at least one other. Well Scruff has explained the departure of 2 logs, but what happened to the third one. Since Jacquel has now admitted to being a dreaded math teacher, perhaps he will also admit to the use of disappearing ink.

Ah! me suspects tis likely just a left over trick from halloween, cause what else could it possible be.

jacquel was a mystery& I figured it was a forum title........but didn't know for sure if we could have such things in BCGA forums....I still would like to know how your forum post was deleted.
We have strayed off the topic.............absolutely I would want to know if I was taking my grandaughter (for example) to cache in an environment I would consider inappropriate for a 6 year-old.
As female cacher who will go seeking hides solo from time to time I ALSO want to know if the cache placement is safe for me too.
It doesn't matter if they are in BC or another province or state or country. The logs are important in this regard and I read them to that purpose.

Deleting logs, just because the CO didn't like the feedback is wrong & in most cases Groundspeak will reinstate them.

When all is done & said, it is mostly about the agenda of the CO.....did they hide the cache for everyone to enjoy.........was their motivation one of inclusion or exclusion. If it was all about inclusion, I would expect all logs would be taken in stride.

We have strayed off the topic.............absolutely I would want to know if I was taking my grandaughter (for example) to cache in an environment I would consider inappropriate for a 6 year-old.
As female cacher who will go seeking hides solo from time to time I ALSO want to know if the cache placement is safe for me too.
It doesn't matter if they are in BC or another province or state or country. The logs are important in this regard and I read them to that purpose.

I totally agree with Solonm there, I do not want to go into an inappropriate or dangerous area not knowing it. The cache owner in the first place should have taken the dangers into consideration before placing the cache. If an area becomes dangerous after the cache was placed then the finders should write in the log about it being a dangerous, don't "forget" about it and ignore it, let the owner know. The owner should except that he or she has to move the cache, then we're all are happy again. Understand?!?!

I generally cache with my four year old son. I have previously gone to find a cache in an area of a forest near my home which I discovered to be littered with many used condoms and wrappers, and empty lube bottles. In addition, there were men sitting, waiting in their cars along the side of the road. Other men were in the forest... together. (I did not proceed to find that cache.) Instead I researched the area.

Another cache was recently placed in the same area. Here is exactly what I wrote for the cache log in response to another cacher commenting on the large number of cars parked nearby:

Those cars were probably not cachers. This is a well known area for men seeking the company of others. I noticed this one day looking for a cache nearby. What I saw instead creeped me out.

I have seen things similar in a local park, a couple of guys smoking a joint, some needles littered around the area as well as a condom and/or wrapper. It seems to me it's getting more common now a days.

Quote::

I generally cache with my four year old son. I have previously gone to find a cache in an area of a forest near my home which I discovered to be littered with many used condoms and wrappers, and empty lube bottles. In addition, there were men sitting, waiting in their cars along the side of the road. Other men were in the forest... together. (I did not proceed to find that cache.) Instead I researched the area.

Another cache was recently placed in the same area. Here is exactly what I wrote for the cache log in response to another cacher commenting on the large number of cars parked nearby:

Those cars were probably not cachers. This is a well known area for men seeking the company of others. I noticed this one day looking for a cache nearby. What I saw instead creeped me out.

The cache owner deleted that without notice to me.

I personally think those caches should be removed by the owners without hesitation. Not many people want to wander around those "creepy" areas.
And your log is appropriate for the situation. I'm with you on this subject.

I guess we all have to wonder what would motivate someone to place a cache in such a location in the first place???
Perhaps it is because they want the "locals" to have a moment of diversion. If so, they have placed a cache for an exclusive group of people and not for everyone.
This is not what geocaching is all about in MHO. It is also why logs are important, be they flattering or not to the CO.
I wonder if you emailed Groundspeak about your deleted log. If they see no reason for it being deleted, they will reinstate it & lock it.

Well now that halloween is really over and I now know that Jacquel is really Cuddlefish and female rather than male, let me say that it matters not whether male or female, your log indicating the area that this cache owner was asking you and others to enter was entirely appropriate, and should not have been deleted.

I don't know how many times I have remarked that I wished I had known where a particular cache was located by reading previous logs so that I could have chosen to seek it or not based on the "true" experience of those that had found it previously, I find a cache in an area of broken glass, barbed wire, condoms and all manner of objectionable items, and read logs saying "great hide", "thanks for bringing me here", I just don't get it.

If we are placing caches that we hope will bring some degree of pleasure to those that seek them, then we should be prepared to accept criticism if that is not the result of our efforts. If we candy coat all our logs in an attempt to thank the CO for placing it for us to find, even though the experience was less than desirable, then the CO will never attempt to improve this or any other cache he/she chooses to place.

I have a fair number of caches hidden, I take seriously the logs that show up on my caches, if there are DNF's I will often email those that did not find the cache to see if they searched in the right location, and even offer help in finding the cache the next time they might choose to visit. I want to know if people have a problem with any of my caches through their logs or personally, I don't care how they choose to inform me. If the log is about the cache, it's location or area surrounding it then I want to deal with it and make it right.

I would like to think that for the most part the caching community is made up of "Adults" some of course take their children with them when they cache and there are certainly younger cachers out there hiding and seeking caches. As "adults" (and I include the younger cachers) we should be able to handle legitimate, honest recounts of the experience those that find our caches have had. If from time to time we do not make the greatest hide (heaven forbid) and through the type of logs we are receiving that is indicated, then maybe we will be inspired improve the cache so as to make it better.

IMHO your log should indicate the experience you had, if that means identifying issues with the cache then so be it.

I guess we all have to wonder what would motivate someone to place a cache in such a location in the first place???
Perhaps it is because they want the "locals" to have a moment of diversion. If so, they have placed a cache for an exclusive group of people and not for everyone.

Solonm, I think you're assumption that some one would motivated to purposefully place a cache in a high risk area is off base.
Have you ever heard of anyone doing that before? I know I haven't...

What I have seen is cache owners looking for a place to hide a cache and being oblivious to their surroundings. I can think of several short lived caches where the cache owner thought they found a neat place to hide a cache, and the first few finders have right away commented on the drug paraphernalia or come across some unsavory types in their "neat" place they found to hide a cache. I have also seen the cache owner go back and say "wow, I never noticed that stuff before", and then archive the cache.

I think savant9's tag line says it best "Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

As for cache logs, I agree the cache owner should use them as positive feedback from cachers who visit their hides; whether good or bad, the cache logs should stand.

Where the "adult" part falls apart, is when the finder doesn't like the cache hide and writes an acidic post on the web page. That's a sure fire way of offending a cache owner, and rightly so.

The other "adult" breakdown happens when the cache owner's ego gets in the way and they can't accept any kind of criticism of their cache. The cache owner will probably have one of those "scr** you" thoughts and delete the negative post.

"Everything I need to know about people I learned at recess"
Never was there a quote more true.......

"IMHO your log should indicate the experience you had, if that means identifying issues with the cache then so be it."

I also agree with Scruffster :

"This is why it is important that the geocaching community as a whole steps in. It is not right to praise a bad placement. On several occasions I've contacted a cache owner about a bad placement only to find a string of people who found the cache behind me saying "great cache." That is the most frustrating of all. "

I have logged finds behind cachers who have gone to a cache just over the edge of a ravine or halfway up a steep bank where any foot traffic will cause no end of damage, a cammo'd container under loose moss or a bison tube inside a fungus (conk for Jangor) and there is the log "Great cache!". What are they thinking?? I have started to walk away from these now.

My personal favorite for less than flattering comments is the micro in the bush. Why place it? Is the object to do an experiment on how much damage will be done? Does the CO not have a better idea?

About 1/4 of my finds are outside of BC. For the most part caches out of BC seem to have the belief that caches are placed for people to find. In BC at times I think it is more "Look how clever I am" as the driving force for the CO in their hide. These tend to get a more frank description of my thoughts about the cache. I have also learned that I don't do caches put out by certain CO's.

I have contacted CO's about caches - the comments back have been ruder than any of my logs - so now I don't bother with the CO. My thought is that the CO invites you to come and be their guest while you attempt to experience the finding of their hide. As a guest I try and be polite but I recount my opinions as to my "caching experience". As a guest all I ask of the host is that the environment will not be damaged and the coordinates are accurate. It is an added bonus if the hide is a tricky one or the container is one that blends in with the area around it (size appropriate).

I did 4 in Long Beach California that were in a park right near the Aquarium. They were outstanding, in a highly used spot, none was more that 2 feet off a path, no vegetation was used, and each container different. Those CO's deserved and got a hearty "Great Cache".

This is a long winded way of saying that most caches put out by CO's are worthy of polite comments and our thanks but some just don't measure up.

I don't believe derogatory logs posted in public are the right way to go. It only causes bad feelings and makes cache owners dig in their heels. Unless there is an immediate safety or environmental concern, the best way to solve the problem of a bad placement is to contact the cache owner directly.

This doesn't mean the cache owner will respond to your concerns. If that happens, it is imperative that you don't continue to harass the cache owner. The truth of the matter is if you have a legitimate concern, many other cachers will feel the same way. Over time, the cache owner will get the hint.

Logging online is a way of alerting fellow geocachers of any potential problems with finding a cache. For example, if heavy rains have created a swamp or a wash out on the trail making it impossible to get to the cache, it is a courtesy to other cachers to let them know of these hazards. The logs weren't originally designed to be a critique on the cache itself.

Again it is stated that LOGS WEREN'T DESIGNED TO BE A CRITIQUE ON THE CACHE ITSELF!

This was my main issue...

I think it is wonderful if people put problems such as glass or the area issues like Cuddlefish did on her log (which shouldn't have been deleted) on cache logs. That is wonderful, and seriously that is one thing that helps other cachers...well can help other cachers...those that read the logs before they do the cache

Other than a hazzard or a polite critisim about the area placement (if bad area), there isn't any other need for any negativity on the cache page. That can be directly mailed to the owner.

Now if you liked the cache...I love it when people tell a story about their experience getting to the cache or finding the cache. I don't have caches out there that I can read logs that would have such stories but some caches I have done have had amazing stories and it is so great to see that. It is like you are on the adventure with them, since you were just there.
I am sure the CO really like it to. I know seeing the all to common TFTH or TFTC sometimes is a 'oh, ok'. LOL

Anyhow, I am glad some of you understand where I am coming from, though I am still seeing the 'the CO should be able to take the critisism (sp?)in the logs, etc.', well no, you are belittling someone in public and yet not giving them a chance to fend for themselves in public in return. You rant at them and then just walk off...(you log, and then that is it, everyone reads it and you never see it again, so it is no skin off your back that you embarrassed them...for them to reply to you, they have to email you privately, no one sees this)
It is like you hide when you do this....

Plus if you have the 'knowledge' that says you 'know better' that you can belittle someone in this way, then why do that, why not constructively help them become a better cacher???? isn't that what we need more of?
Haven't we learned, the more you push, the more they push back in the opposite direction?
Why do we have to be better? Why do we have to 'correct'? Why can't we just band together and help?

Try it, you just might like it...Email that cacher you feel is 'doin' it wrong, and say hey, I noticed this and I was thinking that maybe...blah blah blah......' you never know???!!!!

You can teach old dogs new tricks, I have seen it done, even with Pit Bulls!

_________________ALL VIEWS EXPRESSED ARE MY OWN...not Kelly's, he has his own - ask him.

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