Who is the tough guy, Kevin Durant or Chris Bosh?

You know I am an old school basketball nut, so I follow old school rules and am not big on many of the ways the game has changed in recent years.

(On a side note: I was watching the NBA TV the other day and on a show called “Making the Call With Ronnie Nunn, the former official explained how the four steps Manu Ginobili took before making a game-winning basket last month was NOT traveling. WRONG. WRONG. WRONG. Don’t get me started. The popularity of the jump-stop might be the single worst change in the game in the last 50 years. If you jump, you should be required to either shoot or pass before landing. Period. Jump-stop for NFL running backs? Sweet. For NBA players? Terrible.)

Sorry, where was I? The Rockets are so boring, it is easy to lose track these days when talking NBA.

Oh, old school-new school.

If you follow me on Twitter, you may have caught a little of my take on Kevin Durant calling Chris Bosh a “fake tough guy” after the Thunder lost to the Heat yesterday.

I love Durant, as a player and what I have seen of him as a person, but I’m not with him standing in the locker room after a game calling a guy out for being a so-called fake tough guy.

You just had plenty of time and opportunity to show the fake tough guy just how fake a tough guy he is, and did nothing.

You want to put Bosh in his place, put him on his butt. That’s how many of my all-time favorite players — Murph, Mo and Dream to name three — would have handled the situation.

You think Calvin Murphy or Hakeem Olajuwon ever called a player a fake tough guy? Heck no, they dropped him to illustrate the point.

I know, fighting solves nothing … if you lose.

I’ve gone on about it before, but you know it irks me how NBA fights are treated compared to other sports fights.

Hockey fights are part of the game. Baseball fights are laughed at by announcers and as a buddy on Twitter pointed out, MLB players are called out and criticized for NOT fighting in certain situations.

Let an NBA player misfire with an elbow and people are calling for criminal charges and a suspension.

There were no such worries in the good old days.

My man Murphy retired with an unbeaten record and is the undisputed pound-for-pound best fighter in NBA history.

Mighty Murph was so cold he was listed as a one of the league’s top enforcers in a Sports Illustrated article. Murphy never liked that distinction and is still angry at how the article described him, but he will proudly tell you his NBA knockouts number in the double digits.

If you never saw Murphy floor a guy, you missed a treat.

In his defense, he was quoted in the piece saying, “One hundred percent of my victims attacked me.” Hilarious.

Murphy was probably involved in at least five of my all-time top 10 NBA fights, including when he took out Sydney Wicks (Murphy is 5-9, Wick 6-9).

I tried to find the video of that to share on Twitter but couldn’t. While looking for it, I found the SI article mentioned above. It’s hilarious.

I had already talked about my all-time favorite NBA fight on Twitter — a fight between Willis Reed and the Lakers (yes, all of them). Luckily it is described in the article.

I have seen the film only once, many years ago, but still got many of the details right off the top of my head. It was that memorable of a fight.

Reed, 6’8″, 235, then in his third year, had been exchanging elbows all night with Rudy LaRusso. After a third-quarter free throw. Reed tripped LaRusso, who tagged Reed with a right while Darrall Imhoff held Willis from behind. That sent Reed into a frenzy. He slugged Imhoff and chased LaRusso to the bench. Then he hit John Block with an enormous left hook, spreading his nose all over his face, turned and again belted Imhoff, who fell and knocked five Lakers off the bench like dominoes. Reed planted two more shots on LaRusso and one more on Imhoff, who, bleeding from above the left eye, dived under the bench, to find Block already hiding there with a broken nose.

Recently, Reed chuckled about the incident. “They said I should be banned. All I got was an ejection and a small fine, nothing like what they give out now. You know what would happen if someone did all that today?”

The answer to Reed’s question n this era is he would be labeled a thug, people would be calling for his arrest and he would probably be suspended for the rest of the season, though that fight happened in the Knicks’ home opener.

Perhaps it is smarter for Kevin Durant to talk about Chris Bosh instead of putting something on him, and violence isn’t the answer (most of the time). But every now and then, I like to see somebody get what’s coming to him. (See: Cortland Finnegan.)

So, Kevin, if Bosh has something coming, either give it to him or shut up.

44 Responses

Instead of this tough talking blog, why don’t you go throw down Kevin Durant to show him how he should have resolved the situation. You are hilarious Solomon. I bet you get real hardcore on the basketball court. lmao…

JS, I love you, but you are wrong, wrong, wrong. Durant didn’t say that he was a tough guy, he said that Bosh wasn’t. There is a difference. Most of those guys aren’t “tough guys”, and there are a ton of “fake tough guys” in the NBA. These guys are multimillionaires. They don’t need to be out there putting on a show and acting like idiots to prove who is tougher. That isn’t their job. It is counterproductive to their job. If Durant goes off, punches Bosh, they break out into a huge fight, Bosh gets hurt, Durant breaks a finger; what does that solve? I know I took that to the extreme, but it is something that could happen as Rudy learned a long time ago. Even if it doesn’t go that far and only a few punches are thrown, then what. Durant spends a week suspended and misses 3-5 games in a really competitive western conference; he isn’t proving a point or helping his team, he would be hurting his team. Win or lose the fight there is nothing to be gained but the chance to puff your chest out for a moment before walking around in shame apologizing to everyone for losing control of your temper. Andre spent a week or two on the apology circuit after that fight, lost money, and had to sweat wondering if he could play the next game. I’m sure those punches felt good for the moment, but I’m sure Andre would probably rather have that money back (then again after all the bad blood those guys have had over the year he may have paid twice that just to hit Cortland once).

Yes, times have changed. The good old days were fun, but there is much more on the line now than there was then. These aren’t guys making thousands and working a second job. These are guys that should be looking to be business owners, guys that have reputations to uphold, guys who have endorsement deals that hinge on their behavior on and off the court. Who knows, Durant may go around killing baby seals, spitting on babies, and peeing on people in his spare time. He can’t let the public see that though. Just like he doesn’t do the Thunder any favors as the face of their franchise by being plastered all over all the networks fighting with Bosh. No one ask Bill Gates to go punch Steve Jobs in the mouth for those PC/ Mac commercials. Most times the bigger man is the one who can restrain himself from throwing a punch. Where did fighting get Ron Artest?

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By calling Bosh a fake tough guy, Durant is saying that he is a tough guy. Just as when you call somebody a liar, you’re in effect saying you’re not a liar. When you call someone a punk, you’re saying you’re not a punk. By saying Bosh isn’t tough, Durant is saying he is tough. Gates and Jobs’ fortunes do not rest on physical anything. Success as a professional athlete is very dependent on physical toughness. That isn’t all there is, but a physically weak player, who everyone knows isn’t tough, will most likely not be paid as well as a physically tough player everyone respects as being tough. That may not be fair, as physical toughness doesn’t always equal mental toughness, but the physically tough get paid while the physically weak don’t. And I didnt say Durant should fight Bosh, I said calling the guy names from the safety of the locker room is as weak as whatever Bosh may have said in the first quarter of a game. Andre apologized for all of one day, and the $25k is barely a parking ticket. Plus, he knew he wouldn’t be suspended the very next morning after the fight. When the league didn’t even bother to ask his side of the story, he was golden. Again, I’m not advocating violence, but what Andre did showed more than had he just came into the locker room and started calling Finnegan names.

Also, as a skinny kid that got picked on for a while growing up, there is great satisfaction when a person finally gets fed up and takes a stand. It didn’t take me too long to figure out that those big guys were mostly all talk. Not many of them could handle more than a few punches before they would slink away and leave me alone for good. After a few dust-ups, I wasn’t picked on anymore.

Neither reaches the the high mark for fake tough guys. That belongs solely to Kevin Garnett. I swear I have never seen one “big man” buck up to so many guards and run from so many real big men. Add to that his nut shot the other day……….

There’s a major difference between saying someone is not tough and saying someone is not a “tough-guy”. 98% of the the players in the NBA should probably considered tough just based on what they do for a living. Players like your boy McGrady would fall in the other 2%. The NBA, however, isn’t full of tough-guys, which I think if we’re honest we’ll admit KD was talking about a certain type of NBA player. Guys who aren’t afraid to mix it up in the paint and get nasty. Bosh acts like a tough-guy with his mouth but not his play and KD called him out for being a phony.

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So, two guys areabout the same size, but the guy whose best rebounding season is not as good as the other guy’s worst rebounding season, is saying that the other guy is afraid to mix it up in the paint? OK.

JS “By calling Bosh a fake tough guy, Durant is saying that he is a tough guy.”

Kevin Durant – “I was talking to my teammate and he decided he wanted to put his two cents into it,’ Durant said. ‘I’m a quiet guy, a laid back guy. But I’m not going to let nobody talk trash to me. He’s on a good team now so he thinks he can talk a little bit. But it’s a lot of fake tough guys in this league and he’s one of them.”

I don’t take this quote as Durant trying to say he is tough. He is saying that he is laid back but he isn’t going to just walk away while someone talks trash to him. I think he’s right, there are a lot of fake tough guys in the NBA. There are a bunch of scrubs that like to act like they can fight and do something hoping the ref will break things up before they have to back up their words. You see it at least once a week. Remember last year when Q-Rich got into it with the Celtics? Who really thinks of Q-Rich as a tough guy? A lot of those guys talk a lot of trash knowing they won’t do anything, KD was saying that Bosh is one of those guys. He isn’t saying I’m a real tough guy and here is why, he is saying he doesn’t bother faking it to began with. He doesn’t bother talking the trash; he is “laid back”. I think you are turning that quote into something it isn’t meant to be. I don’t think you are doing it intentionally, I just think you are misreading it. I could be wrong…

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“I’m not going to let nobody talk trash to me BECAUSE I am a tough guy,” is more likely what he meant than, “I’m not going to let nobody, who is a fake tough guy talk trash to me, however, I will let a real tough guy talk trash to me.”

So, two guys areabout the same size, but the guy whose best rebounding season is not as good as the other guy’s worst rebounding season, is saying that the other guy is afraid to mix it up in the paint? OK.

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KD would never consider himself a “tough-guy”, and he doesn’t pretend to be one either. That’s the difference that apparently you can’t see. Let me know when KD goes around acting like a tough-guy and starts mouthing off to people who aren’t even talking to him. KD goes about his business and does what he gets paid to do. Bosh tried bucking up like he’s some tough-guy who’s an enforcer and KD called him out. You do know that it is possible to have an opinion on someone without making it a direct comparison to one’s self? If I’m sitting at a bar and some idiot is mouthing off I can look at him and tell him he’s not a tough-guy. That doesn’t mean I’m saying I’m a tough-guy. I’m not the one going around like 10 ft tall and bullet proof. All I’m doing is telling him he’s a punk and I know his mouth is writing checks he can’t cash. I don’t have to be a tough guy to call him out, I just have to know he’s full of it. Got it yet?

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Uh, you are an idiot if you call out a jerk at a bar, tell him he is not a tough guy and that he is a punk, if you are not intent on backing up those words by proving the point. If you do that, but you actually mean, “Neither one of us is a tough guy,” I am fairly certain the odds are your intent will be misunderstood by both tough guys and fake tough guys. P.S. – When the tough guy punk clocks you, witnesses will say they thought you jumped into it to put the guy in his place.

I am not sure why people have a more visceral reaction to NBA fights than other sports. Hockey it is part of the game and accepted. Hell the fans sometimes participate and the league is ok with fighting. Football fights are usually silly because of the pads. Baseball fights are more like dances and but are possibly the most dangerous. Remember baseball fights include bats and thrown balls that can cause severe damage to players and I don’t think this fact escapes the them. Maybe it is because the players look so much more menancing because they were the least amount of clothing and just about everyone of them are greatly above average physically (unlike baseball).

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You really think it is the lack of clothing that makes them look more menacing?

JS “By calling Bosh a fake tough guy, Durant is saying that he is a tough guy.”

Last attempt

There is a individual that lives in my neighborhood. It is a fairly nice neighborhood. I’ve seen this kids family. I know where this kid came from. Yet this kid drives around music blaring, wearing tank-tops, jeans hanging from his back side, underwear showing, and wearing bandanas. It is a white kid. When he and his other little friends are out side together and they don’t think any one can hear them they call each other the “N” word and use slang words out of context.

Now… my wife and I routinely call these young adults (they are over 18 at this point and still behave in this manner) wannabe thugs and fake thugs. In no way are we intending to insinuate that we are thugs by making that statement. We simply know that they aren’t thugs. They are suburbanites that can’t appreciate where they are or where they came from, neither do they understand what really being a thug is or they wouldn’t want to be one.

Durants opening statements about him being a laid back guy and a quiet guy kind of set the frame work for his intent in his statements; at least in my opinion. He is just like me calling that kid a fake thug. He isn’t saying I’m the real tough guy and if you talk noise to me I’ll prove it to you. He’s saying I’m not going to let some fake tough guy come in here and think he can punk me. He doesn’t pull that when Ron Artest is pushing him around and talking noise. He keeps his mouth shut and he keeps playing. He respects Artest and understands that is just who Artest is and that is his rep. He is calling Bosh out for fronting like he is something he isn’t just because he is on a better team. IMO

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How you and the wife relate to children is completely different than how one would relate to a peer in a sports situation. If Durant wasn’t saying he is a tough guy, at the very least,he was saying “I am tougher than you.” That’s about all the room I will give on this one. And, again, I didn’t say Durant was wrong, just that if he wanted to make that point, he should have made it in a way other than crying to the media after a loss. Just because you are quiet doesn’t mean you aren’t tough. KD is from D.C. Trust me, he thinks he is tough. I think he is tough. He just didn’t show his toughness in this instance.

Uh, you are an idiot if you call out a jerk at a bar, tell him he is not a tough guy and that he is a punk, if you are not intent on backing up those words by proving the point. If you do that, but you actually mean, “Neither one of us is a tough guy,” I am fairly certain the odds are your intent will be misunderstood by both tough guys and fake tough guys. P.S. – When the tough guy punk clocks you, witnesses will say they thought you jumped into it to put the guy in his place.

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JS – I think the major problem here is you think you’re a tough guy and you’re not. You see I have no problem calling a a fake tough-guy out who’s being mouthy to me. Just like Bosh mouthed off to KD. If a guy is just being obnoxious I could care less, but if he goes at me then I’ll call it like I see it. That’s exactly what KD did. He didn’t go looking for Bosh and then call him fake tough-guy. He responded to Bosh’s actions towards him. Now if Bosh or the said guy at the bar wanted to escalate it further then so be it. What happens, happens and all’s fair. But it’s pretty obvious who’s a lot of talk and who’s not. I’ve known plenty of tough-guys in my life and they typically don’t run there mouth to try and convince everyone. Kind of like guys who run their mouth about what an athlete is but then get silent when they get called out. Know what I mean?

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I never said I was a tough guy. And I don’t go around acting like a tough guy, jumping into bar fights just because some guy at a bar is acting like a punk. The only reason to get into it with a punk at a bar is to shut him up or make him act right. Idiots who get into it with punks for no good reason get their butts kicked regularly. I’ll jump into a situation if a woman is in trouble or if a person is crossing a line to where I am willing to take a butt-whipping to make that point. Though I have no plans on losing a fight. REALLY STUPID people mess with punks in bars with the idea being nothing will happen, but all that happens is fair if the punk escalates the situation. That makes sense to you? That is one thing that is wrong with youngsters today. They do so much talking with no intent on backing up. When someone calls them on it, they are shocked that it went that far. As I have said, Durant decided to get into it with Bosh. If he really thought Bosh was that weak, he could have either slapped him upside the head or laughed in his face because he knows Bosh is no threat. Instead, he bucked up to him (did you notice Bosh didn’t flinch, so obviously he wasn’t too concerned with Durant doing anything either), walked away and stayed away for the next three quarters, then talked noise through the media.

JS – you’re pretty good at trying to twist my words so let me be clear. If I’m at a bar or practically anywhere for that matter and some punk gets mouthy with me for no good reason I will gladly call him out. My intent is not to fight or escalate but rather to let him know I’m not the punk at the bar who’s gonna fall for his line of bs. Why my intent isn’t to fight don’t think for a second I’m not ready to defend myself. Bosh was nothing more than that punk at the bar. KD called him out right as it happened and again after the fame to the media. Neither one is a tough guy but only one think he is and that’s Bosh.

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Not intending to twist tour words. I thought the punk in the bar was simply being a jerk, not confronting you directly. Major difference. Now I see your point better. And obviously, the actions one might take against a stranger at a bar are quite different than with a person you see and compete against regularly. I don’t think Durant necessarily called Bosh out. He made a comment, and did nothing. They played three more quarters and from what I have read, he did nothing. After taking the loss he then went to the media with his contention that Bosh isn’t that tough. My original point was that it’s all talk and means little.

I don’t think Kevin Durant was trying to say he is the tough guy, but was just trying to say Bosh tries to portray himself as something he is not. Kevin Durant always goes out and play the same way since he was at Texas. I don’t see him as trying to be considered a tough guy, or really caring what anyone thinks of him.

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I’m a huge Durant fan, but he definitely cares what people think of him. And there is nothing wrong wih that.

JS- Unlike the bulk of the responses here, I prefer to hearken back to the days when toughness was settled on the court, sans the threat of league sanctions and firearms.

Murph could have been a middleweight legend- great hand speed and coordination helped him get his shot off quicker than anybody could guard him, and of course it gave him a pair of trip-hammers when it came to settling his bidness. My late dad’s favorite example was his taking down 7-foot Swen Nater with a rapid succession of rights to the grill.

I wouldn’t stop with Murph, though- as a kid in AZ I was a Suns fan, and there was no badder a point guard than Ricky Sobers. His ability to throw was demonstrated in the ’76 playoffs- first in the Conference Finals against Golden State and Rick Barry (of whom half disliked and the other half hated) and NBA Finals vs. Boston and a hapless Kevin Stacom. No fool was Ricky, though- one time I witnessed him wither at the point of a murderous glare from Norm Van Lier, letting him (and me) know that exchanging fisticuffs with Stormin’ Norman would have been a BIG mistake.

Big guy fights were main events back in the 70s- the way the late Maurice Lucas and Darryl Dawkins squared off in the ’77 finals was the stuff of legends, and can be found on YouTube.

Ricky Sobers, hadn’t thought about him in years. Now, he was a tough one. That New York City streets tough that is always overblown, but very real if you know what I mean. I’m pretty sure Sobers played a couple of seasons at UNLV with local legend Eddie Owens of Wheatley.

Having grown-up in NYC during those halcyon Reed-era Knick days, I have to say that I loved me some Willis Reed. And Dave BeBusschere. And the teams they rivaled with. Like the Bullets with Gus Johnson and Wes Unseld. Or the Celtics with Russell amd Havlicek. We’re talking some serious butt-kickin’ players here. Durant and Bosh may have it all over the old school guys athletic-wise. There is not doubt about that. But, in my book, they lack a little sand in the shorts. Know what I mean?

Strong words to call Durant a punk when you REALLY don’t know what was said in that exchange.

When Bosh said something Durant didn’t like, Durant could have got in his face and told Bosh he was gonna knock him out right there, and Bosh tucked tail and walked away. That’s what it looked like to me. So how does that make Durant a punk. Bc he didn’t just hall off and knock him out? Are you telling me in the old school words were never exchanged? Folks just got all crazy out of nowhere? It takes two to tango and it looks like Bosh didn’t want no part once his card got called. Much like yours would if Durant got in your face too proly

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I’d love to see where I called Durant a punk. And if you watch the exchange, nowhere did Bosh tuck tail and run. He didn’t flinch.

I thought a reporter asked him a question about Bosh and the incident? If Durant unprompted, made those quotes, that is without a doubt a punk move. But if the media asked him what happened or what was said, Durant’s all right. Durant is 22, Bosh is 26. Most of us let things slip at 22. I agree with his point, if true. Bosh is a nice guy all those years in Toronto. Now, he has a couple of good teammates, he turned into a trash talker? That’s legit. I guarantee you if true, Durant said what a lot of other players felt. Those other players just don’t have the star power to get away with it.

Some rather ridiculous comments being posted. But I’d like to say I enjoyed basketball when it was played by men. I don’t have the history that some of the posters (and yourself) have, but I’d take late ’70s and ’80s teams any day. Today’s game is supposed to get high points (since you can’t touch anyone-kidding), but they scored a lot of points in the past as well. The one thing you didn’t see was a PG streaking to the rim on every play. There was someone there who would give them a good hard foul…something that is lost in today’s game. I just don’t get it and I really don’t like it. And the refs nowadays are horrible…but that’s another subject altogether.

“…by saying Bosh is a fake tough guy, Durant is saying he is a….” (quoted enough). Point is that your comments on his comments seem to be putting words into Durant’s mouth and thoughts into his head. “In effect…”, “…is more likely what he meant”. These are qualifyers, and “read into’s” if you will, the result of a perception born of one’s own in-place thought processes and while they may be (actually) correct…surmising is the bottom line and probably best left alone, especially since it goes not to what someone actually said but what someone else “sees” in their words.. But, this is a blog and surmising is certainly allowed…just thought you were strong on “actually”.

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No doubt you have a valid point, but consider that my point even within what I read into his words, wasn’t that his meaning (what I read into it, or what it could actually be) is the debate. It is that his actions, regardless of whether he was saying what I think he was saying or whether he was saying something else, was what I had a problem with. Perhaps I didn’t say it in the best or clearest way, but you’re talkig about my response to a specific comment, not my original point. If he was saying “I am tough and you are not,” I think what he did didn’t prove that. Were he saying only that “you are not tough” (as I have said, I don’t that is the case) I don’t think what he did proved that either. … A commenter saying Durant didn’t mean this or that, doesn’t matter, because I think whatever he meant, he was off base in getting his point across. That comes not only from my definition of toughness and how it is displayed in sport, but in how I view displays of toughness via the media. Remember, I talk to a lot of athletes. You might be amazed at how many have called out an opponent as being a fake tough guy. But they also told me how they had proved the point on the court (or field) or how they would prove the point the next time they met on the court. … Is my judgment of toughness skewed by that? Of course. That was also in the original point. I think old school athletes did less talking about toughness and respect, and more showing of toughness and demanding respect.

Jerome, I agree with your point and the historical basis for it. People were tougher 20 years ago. I’m also a huge fan of the Wussification of America series. With that said…

NBA superstars never go to fisticuffs with eachother. Not in my lifetime anyways (80′s – present). Last I remember was the A Mourning and L Johnson slapfight and neither wanted to do real damage or take damage, so they just went through the motions.

In this scenario, Durant bumrushed Bosh upside his head with the truth. I mean that figuratively. So he took it to the media, but it was prompted by a reporter. With that said, he cut Chris Bosh for the punk he is with the truth straight to his heart. “You were no tough guy all alone in Toronto, which means now you’re just a punk. Go stand behind James and Wade where you belong.”

That hurts somewhere you can’t heal, the heart. I like it. Only a Kevin Durant can get away with that and he did. The 22 year old kid simply said what a lot of other people feel. You have to admit, when it’s true, it sticks…. Can you at least agree, what he said is somewhere pretty close to the truth?

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I can’t say that is close to the truth, because I don’t have a problem with Bosh being the third-best player on a team. I don’t think that makes him a punk. Same as I didn’t agree with those who wanted to criticize James for not being all that tough because he chose to play on a team with Wade. I think it has been obvious how seriously good LeBron is now that people see what the Cavs are without him and how he looks with the Heat. He isn’t second fiddle by any stretch of the imagination is he? I don’t think less of Drexler because he needed to come to a team with Olajuwon to win a title. I don’t think less of Robert Parrish because he was on a team with Bird and McHale. I think we overdo this sometimes. Can you play or not, is all that it is about. Bosh might indeed be all that you claim; I don’t know. I see him as a guy who played very well when he didn’t have any help, and a guy who plays well now that he has a hell of a lot of help. He may be the third-best player on the team, but that team would have no chance were he not on it. Anyway, I don’t think that is what Durant was getting at so much as he was ticked off that he just lost to Bosh and the Heat, and he chose to lash out. As I have said, if he thought so little of Bosh, he should have done a little more than he did.

First of all, I didn’t go there, but you did. Still hung up on Lebron James taking criticism? Get over it and if not, at least pick that fight with someone who disagrees with you. Since you ask me about whether Lebron is the 2nd best player on a team which has nothing to do with my point, the answer is no. But then again, I never said he was. You put those words into my entry, somehow. Not sure why you chose to pick a beef about a non-relevant issue, especially since I agree with you on that issue, but ok. And you bring up Clyde Drexler? Well, since you did: 1. He came home… 2. in the twilight of his career. Talk about youngsters being weak, since you want to compare Clyde’s career to these guys, then yes, they are…. WEAK. But that’s all beside my original point. Which is…

Bosh never talked trash in Toronto and now he’s a trash talker. That’s what Kevin Durant eluded to. Go read them. He said he was nice off the court and not a talker on a bad team. I’ve seen that crap all the time on the basketball court, in middle school when I played, in high school when I played, in college as an intramural player, today at the YMCA or 24 Hour fitness. Decent player is nice on an average team and turns into a Reggie Miller trash talker when he has a couple of good teamates. Yes, I consider that PUNK-A$$.

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I don’t know how you turned my listing some examples as starting a beef or challenging you on points to which you agree. I guess you were on edge or something. I only brought up that stuff as an example of why there needs to be more evidence that Bosh is a fake tough guy than just his being on a good team. you made a point at the end, that if Bosh has only started talking after geting on a good team. If that is indeed the case that is weak. But I saw Bosh in high school and college, and watched a lot of Toronto games, and while he is a very nice guy and a person who is easy to like off the court, aside from Shaq, I haven’t heard players call him out like that.

Kevin Durant. He is a superstar and Bosh is an also ran taking a back seat to two other people instead of wanting to be the man. He cant handle the duties of being a the leader. So obviously Durant is 100% correct in his assessment. Bosh is a fake tough guy. He cant and refuses to put a franchise on his shoulders while Durant will and has.

Full disclosure, I love KD, easily my favorite player since The Dream. I see your point that he could have stepped up and showed Bosh to be a “fake” tough guy with a physical play or just slapping him around a bit. But I think I’d rather see one of his teammates do it. KD can’t afford to break a hand or something, and I’m sure he wouldn’t want the potential PR hit. If I’m one of his big men on the bench though, I make sure I find out if Bosh is tough or not.

As for myself, I never start an altercation. And I’m not saying I can beat everyone or anything ridiculous like that; but if I’m pushed to that point, then we’ll be finding out at least.

don’t know how you turned my listing some examples as starting a beef or challenging you on points to which you agree. I guess you were on edge or something. I only brought up that stuff as an example of why there needs to be more evidence that Bosh is a fake tough guy than just his being on a good team. you made a point at the end, that if Bosh has only started talking after geting on a good team. If that is indeed the case that is weak. But I saw Bosh in high school and college, and watched a lot of Toronto games, and while he is a very nice guy and a person who is easy to like off the court, aside from Shaq, I haven’t heard players call him out like that.

Posted by: David H at February 1, 2011 04:46 PM

I don’t argue semantics, so my use of the word “pick a beef” should have been “choose a debate”. Your examples with Clyde and Parrish, were well taken, although I dispute those analogies.

I didn’t go anywhere near the Lebron to Miami debate in my entry, which is the “beef” I am elluding to. I don’t have any issue with the act of him going. I do think it is indicative of something missing in the “youngsters of today”, as you put it, although they’re not much younger then me. I grew up watching Magic, Bird, Jordan, Hakeem… to some extent Shaq and Duncan. I did mention James, but in the context of Bosh becoming a trash-talker only when they became teamates.

Good debate once you understood my point. I don’t engage in many. The last one was about Floyd Mayweather and that was a good one also.

“No, Eric, that is asking the question “What do you get when you put 1 and 1 together?” and your answer is 11.”

Weak response. You seem to think that since you are a FAN of old school tough guys you can somehow be the judge of what’s tough and what’s not. Even by your own reasoning (as I showed earlier), if someone does that, then they are implying that they are tougher then the ones they are laying criticism on. This isn’t the first time that you’ve harped on about toughness in sports and the “wussification” of America. Shouldn’t you have to be a tough guy to judge what’s tough and what’s not? I guess not.

JS: “I never said I was a tough guy.”

Cause you aren’t, but that wont stop you from being an expert on all things toughness…

C’mon son.

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Just because I never said I was a tough guy doesn’t mean I am not. On one of your most ridiculous points: should you have to be a murderer to judge what is murder and what is not? I guess you think so.

“Just because I never said I was a tough guy doesn’t mean I am not. On one of your most ridiculous points: should you have to be a murderer to judge what is murder and what is not? I guess you think so.”

Oh we know you aren’t a tough guy…lol. I like how you get all vague about it and never say if you are or not. Like I said before, you write alot about toughness and “wussification” to give off the perception that you are tough. You know that’s what you’re going for. Stop trying to be vague about it and just admit it.

Ridiculous comparison, Solomon. Murder is not some arbitrary thing, toughness is. You might as well say something equally ridiculous like, “Does your skin color have to be blue to judge whether a paint color is blue?” C’mon son.

Experience creates better judges of things. Why do you think tv stations get ex-athletes to do commentary? Their experience makes them a better judge of the nuances of the game. If Calvin Murphy wrote this blog post, I’d give it more credence.

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And you know I am not a tough guy because of what exactly? Step to me and prove your point. If you notice when I talk about toughness, I point out that true tough guys don’t talk about how tough they are. (Isn’t that the point of the post?) So, no, I’m not going to run around calling myself tough. I challenge you to find someone to say they saw me display the opposite of toughness at some point. Doubt that you would be successful. Again, still, I’m not saying I am tough, but I think I know toughness. I agree with you, murder might be too strong an example. Must one be an NFL coach to recognize good and bad NFL coaching? Must one have been an NBA player to recognize good play? And if your best reasoning is that is why former athletes are hired as analysts, note my opinion is based on study of and discussion with true tough guys. I have had dozens of conversations with Calvin Murphy about the subject. Talked to Olajowon about it for a few minutes, oh, about two weeks ago. Have talked to Moses Malone, Darryl Dawkins, Rudy Tomjanovich, Kermit Washington and many, many others from the tough era of NBA basketball of which I speak. Does that make me an expert on toughness? No. Can I speak about it with confidence that I know what I am talking about? Yes.

If only crazy pills and crew didn’t went up the stands and hit some of the audience then the NBA wouldn’t have needed to impose stricter rules for in game “fighting”. Then we could have at least enjoyed more friendly elbowing and occasional love punches here and there on the NBA till today .

———————————————————Can’t let you call my man Ron Artest “crazy pills” … he isn’t on pills (I don’t think) … but you have a point. Actually, the league had changd its fighting rules long before that. What always gets me is that incident wasn’t nearly as horrible or precedent-setting as it was made out to be. It was bad, mind you, but a tad overblown.

JS, all this tough guy talk got me thinkin’, no offense to McClain or Justice, but based solely on blog photo’s I’d pick you to have my back in a tussle! You know I’m just kidding!

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I can squabble if I have to, but The General has some Central Texas bulldog in him, and no doubt Justice would fight dirty under Waxahachie rules. Take me in a race, a basketball game or a golf match; take them in a fight.

Amen Brother! I didn’t know that about Murph. – good stuff. I remember Hakeem in his younger days never took much from anyone. Michael Cage was supposed to be a tough guy and was trying to get under Hakeem’s skin. He did, but I’m pretty sure he wished he hadn’t.

It is interesting how the different sports are judged differently for fighting. I guess after that Artest deal in Detroit, basketball just went crazy about it.

Times have changed. When I was in school, boxing was part of the PE curriculum. Everybody had to do it. Maybe we should let NBA players settle up that way. By the time they go one 3 minute round with those 16 oz gloves, I’m pretty sure neither person would want to continue.