Just realized something -- except for KC does it really matter if we expect to cut Flynn?

If we cut him he would hardly get past the first team in the draft so KC would pick him up if actually like him. So the other 7 teams that needs a qb would still have to trade for him if they like him and think one team ahead of them on the waiver wire likes Flynn as well.

seahawks08 wrote:I have a theory about Matt Flynn. I think Dallas will pick him up to compete with Tony Romo and he will win that job. I think there is pressure in Dallas and they are finally figuring out that Romo is an interception machine, I think Jerry Jones is going to do something about it and he may do something crazy that none of us would ever imagine. No, i did not read it anywhere, it is something I came to conclusion based on situations.

I'm on the other side of this argument cause I think Dallas needs to get Romo some help. Anytime you force your guy to throw for 446 yards in a losing effort it seems to me he's doing his part.

The owner there on the other hand seems to be the one holding them back but we don't need a Jerry Jones type cause he can't catch a football worth a shit either and damn sure isn't a defensive genius either.

what he is is offensive,,,,,,,to anyone that knows how to build a football team.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote: He might be wrong on this one. But he could be right. I'm prepared for any scenario when it comes to Flynn's future. I suspect some people aren't, and they might be in for a surprise.

CrimsonWazzu wrote:He's not grossly overpaid for what he is...a starting caliber NFL QB.

The guy has two starts in his career. We have no idea if he's a starting calibre NFL QB.

The lack of starts is always a fair point, but he's certainly been a victim of circumstance. Backup to a guy who is well on his way to a HOF career, and then gets totally blindsided by a 3rd round phenom. He has all the tools, and certainly would be an upgrade for 6 or 7 teams right now that need a competent quarterback.

It may very well come down to nobody willing to give anything up to take Matt Flynn and his current contract because they don't see the value there....which ultimately means that Schneider and Carroll see a lot more in him than others do....which is, from what we've already learned early and often, par for the course.

I do disagree about the class of QB's this year. It's just not very good, which in turn brings a marginally higher value to Flynn.

scutterhawk wrote:Apparently John Schneider believes he's "a starting calibre NFL QB". Or is he also full of it?

Well in that case he also believed Charlie Whitehurst was a starting calibre QB.

JS is a fantastic GM, but he's not invincible.

Well in The Schneid's defense, I think that he thought Whitehurst was a starting caliber QB coming out of college. I think those 3 years at the bottom of the depth chart, bumming about in the San Diego sun NOT working on the shortcommings in his game kinda ruined him. He still seemed to have the physical tools, but looked lost when he was thrown in against live ammo.

DavidSeven wrote:Am I crazy to think Flynn has more upside than Alex Smith? Obviously, Smith has proven he can thrive in a perfect situation, but what are his game-manaing ways going to do for teams like Kansas City or Jacksonville?

No, not crazy. Alex has always been a terrible red zone QB.

In the three games where Flynn played significant snaps prior to signing with Seattle, he was... not great. Then again, there's not a lot of evidence, really.

Against the Lions in 2010 when he took over for Rodgers mid-game, he had only one trip to the red zone:

2 plays, 2 attempts, 0 completions, 1 INT

This isn't to surprising considering he was stepping in mid game. It's not like he game planned all week.

Against the Patriots in 2010, when he was the starter, he had 5 trips into the red zone:

This stat is a little misleading. Tom Brady threw for 158 yards and 1 TD in that same game. The weather was horrific. Raining and snowing with heavy wind gusts that effected both QB's and of the two Flynn looked like the better QB and didn't benefit from one of his O-lineman running back a kick off for a TD. Yep, an O-lineman. Flynn did throw a pick and it was a bad one but there were IIRC 6 missed tackles on the return and they were horrid missed tackles the variety of which players get released over. If NE doesn't get either one of the pick 6 or the O-lineman (fricken O-lineman) TD's Flynn is 2-0 in his two starts. It should also be mentioned that Flynn threw the ball 66 times completing 40 of them. How often do you ask your backup to come in in horrible weather and ask him to throw the ball 66 times?

Against the Lions in 2011, when he was the starter, he had 3 trips into the end zone:

10 plays, 2 runs, 8 attempts, 5 completions, 2 TDs

This is kind of a funny one. If you listen to the "he sucks' crowd, all Flynn did was take the snap and throw the ball and the best receiving core to ever grace the NFL field did the rest. It ignores what Flynn really did in that game including repeat come from behind leads against an opposing QB who threw for over 500 yards in a game with playoff seeding implications for the opponent only and Flynn was without multiple key starters including Jennings playing for a team that had nothing to gain from a win.

If you watched the game honestly you would see how the YAC was possible. It was due to leading his receivers and throwing them open. He wasn't waiting for the receiver to plant like we watched Jackson do all last year, he threw the ball to were the receiver could make the catch with the least interference from DB's and with the most ability to run after the catch. GB has a great receiver group even without Jennings but they aren't so good they can just break every tackle and mow through opponents. They need to ball to be placed where they can catch it in stride or your YAC is meaningless. Even with that said only two of Flynn's 5 TD's were attributed to long runs after the catch and both were because of a perfect throw that enabled the run not despite it.

---

While there is clear evidence that Flynn's play in the red zone improved with each opportunity to start, I wouldn't yet call red zone play a "strength." I'd still consider it an unknown. What is clear is that at least in the famous 480/6 game, Flynn benefited a lot from the big play. For a team to score 45 points offensively and yet only reach the red zone 3 times in a game is pretty incredible.

This is the beauty of only having a small sample size. You can actually go back and watch each play and evaluate them individually. Stats are nice but they don't tell the whole story. You can assume alot of things but the real eyeball test is seeing what actually happened and not what the stats were. They can be very misleading. I mean after the NE game no one was saying Flynn was a better QB than Brady though that day he clearly was.

I don't have the time to track each of Smith's plays in the red zone right now. Maybe I'll investigate that this evening.

If you are on the side that Flynn is a no brainer good starting caliber QB, then we should be seeing great offers in the near future (ie 1st to 3rd rounder). If somebody offered GB a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Flynn, how many of you really think they would turn that down, knowing they could acquire a cheap, starting caliber player with that capital? Honest question.

If you are on the side that Flynn is god awful, then why would JS pay good money to acquire him in FA? Yes, he let him walk without an offer, but ultimately paid the man. If he was terrible, why would any GM cough up $ for him? Why is he still in the league?

So, I'm going out on a limb and saying that reality is probably right in the middle of this debate. That being, Flynn has been a good backup QB, with pretty underwhelming physical skills (I didn't say bad) by starting QB standards, who probably has the ceiling of a low end starting QB. Does this make him terrible? No. Does this make him the GOAT? No.

So, really the question is, how do you think other teams view Flynn? I think if some of you take the time to look at what the Chiefs are looking at, you might get a more grounded version of what Flynn truly is. This time last year, would you want to give GB a 2nd rounder for Flynn? My honest answer is no. I wouldn't mind taking a shot with a 5th rounder.

The NFL is a copycat league, and if there is one thing that defined the 2012 season, it was the emergence of the mobile QB and the validation of the read option in the NFL. While I think most NFL GMs are probably smart enough to know that QBs like Russell Wilson are very rare, QBs like Colin Kaepernick are not. Finding QBs with tools but not skills isn't hard to do, and SF is proving that such a player can lead a potent NFL offense, even without top shelf WRs.

I see a lot of owners/GMs watching that at home and thinking "why the hell aren't we doing that?" I expect a pretty huge shift in that direction starting immediately this offseason, and though EJ Manuel might have mid round draft grades, will it shock anyone when a team trades up in round 2 to reach for him extra hard? It won't surprise me. This whole situation pretty much sucks the wind out of Matt Flynn's sails. There might be some teams that like Flynn as a backup, which explains the "wait til he's released" logic. Flynn has his fans, just none big enough to pay him starter money or hand him a starting job.

THAT's RIGHT!

"Some people here have been groomed to accept mediocrity and lame ducks, I'm on board with the vibrato!" -SouthSoundHawk "BFS is kicking ass in here." -kearly (8/9/2013)

If you are on the side that Flynn is a no brainer good starting caliber QB, then we should be seeing great offers in the near future (ie 1st to 3rd rounder). If somebody offered GB a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Flynn, how many of you really think they would turn that down, knowing they could acquire a cheap, starting caliber player with that capital? Honest question.

If you are on the side that Flynn is god awful, then why would JS pay good money to acquire him in FA? Yes, he let him walk without an offer, but ultimately paid the man. If he was terrible, why would any GM cough up $ for him? Why is he still in the league?

So, I'm going out on a limb and saying that reality is probably right in the middle of this debate. That being, Flynn has been a good backup QB, with pretty underwhelming physical skills (I didn't say bad) by starting QB standards, who probably has the ceiling of a low end starting QB. Does this make him terrible? No. Does this make him the GOAT? No.

So, really the question is, how do you think other teams view Flynn? I think if some of you take the time to look at what the Chiefs are looking at, you might get a more grounded version of what Flynn truly is. This time last year, would you want to give GB a 2nd rounder for Flynn? My honest answer is no. I wouldn't mind taking a shot with a 5th rounder.

See I'm not on either side of that fence. I see things from Flynn that are traits of a good QB and I think given the right environment he might be a good QB but I also acknowledge that we don't really know how he will be long term. When I say long term I think of guys like Tony Romo. They show all the right things and have some amazing highlight reels but they also are erratic and seem to lack that killer leader instinct that motivates their team mates and push's the team over the top.

My problem with these conversations is you have the same guys that before preseason were saying Flynn was slow and couldn't scramble, had a noodle arm and couldn't throw deep, is a career backup, he was a 7th round pick for a reason on and on. You get the idea. Once the bullets started flying in preseason and you seen Flynn scramble out of the pocket with good speed and throw a beautiful 50+ yard strike to TO that TO promptly dropped and sprayed the ball all over the field even though he didn't compile much in the stats category thanks in large part to the supporting cast those guys quickly changed their tune about his weakness's and instead of saying, hey I guess he doesn't have a noodle arm or wow he actually does have some speed and pocket presence, they just reverted back to he only has two starts and his supporting cast in GB did all the work he shouldn't get credit for any of that.

It's kind of sickening. He may very well not have the leadership skills that Wilson possesses and he may become erratic from game to game and those are the things that are still a question for anyone. His resume is short but impressive but it doesn't give the whole answer and that won't come out until he actually is a full time starter but to just write him off as a scrub when he has so far shown zero reason to believe he is, to me is ridiculous and deserves to be called out for the rubbish it is.

I have no idea whether Matt Flynn will BE a good starting QB in this league.

But I will say that he has definitely shown POTENTIAL to be a good starting QB.

Just looking back on that game he played against Detroit: 480 passing yards, 6 TDs.

Those are freaking videogame numbers. People might say he was very lucky, but at the professional level of football, nobody gets THAT lucky.

People might say his success that game was due to him being on a stacked team. Sure the Packers were the #1 seed that season, but I think that was more on Aaron Rodgers than the team being stacked.

Sure, the Packers have a lot of great depth to the WR group, but it's not anything near what a team like the Falcons have. And Matt Ryan hasn't exploded for that much production having Roddy White, Julio Jones, Tony Gonzalez to throw to, has he? Much less playing outdoors, in the snow?

It's not like the Packers run game or defense did Flynn any favors in that game, they both disappeared.

He fought and made a very good case that he can be a productive starting QB. Whether he does or not depends on whether he'll be given the chance to start, and whether he can replicate that on the field.

Funny that, I thought we were going to see such a movement of arms raising from waist height to the ceiling... potentially on such a scale that it leads to a seismic shift provoking a devastating earthquake across the Pacific Northwest.

I guess we don't need 'RichnHansom' (aka LivesinmothersbasementNlookslikeTerryBradshaw) to call out the masses for their 'sickening', beastly viewpoints.

HawkWow wrote:I won't lose sight of the fact that we are never more than 1 play away from being the Cleveland Browns.

And Flynn stops us being the Browns?

I don't even know who Atlanta's back-up is for Matt Ryan.

In a perfect world, nobody would have to know the names of any back-ups but Atlanta's is Luke (warm) McCown. Imagine if McCown had to come in for Ryan. They'd become the Cleveland Browns before our very eyes.

And yes, If RW were injured, I'd give Flynn a much better chance of preventing us from becoming the Browns than I would Portis, Robinson or even Golden Tate.

I think we have a pro-bowl QB as well as a very good QB on our roster. It's a luxury few teams have. Last year we would have given anything for 1 decent QB, now we have two.....and that also apparently makes people unhappy.

theENGLISHseahawk wrote:Hands up if you've written off Matt Flynn as a scrub?

Anyone?

Hang on.... why can't I see any hands?

Funny that, I thought we were going to see such a movement of arms raising from waist height to the ceiling... potentially on such a scale that it leads to a seismic shift provoking a devastating earthquake across the Pacific Northwest.

I guess we don't need 'RichnHansom' (aka LivesinmothersbasementNlookslikeTerryBradshaw) to call out the masses for their 'sickening', beastly viewpoints.

Funny because I think I see both your hands up.

Correct me if I am wrong but you were the first to say he was a seventh round pick for a reason and didn't you say you would bet your house the Seahawks have no interest in Flynn?

You've been banging the scrub rum as loud as anyone and way louder than most. Trying to push off your imagination on me is pretty funny.

I think my calling out the masses might have hit a little close to home for you. Do you live in your mothers basement? I don't think my wife of 29 years would still be with me if I did. Sorry to tell ya.

Mtjhoyas wrote:So, I'm going out on a limb and saying that reality is probably right in the middle of this debate. That being, Flynn has been a good backup QB, with pretty underwhelming physical skills (I didn't say bad) by starting QB standards, who probably has the ceiling of a low end starting QB. Does this make him terrible? No. Does this make him the GOAT? No.

So, really the question is, how do you think other teams view Flynn? I think if some of you take the time to look at what the Chiefs are looking at, you might get a more grounded version of what Flynn truly is. This time last year, would you want to give GB a 2nd rounder for Flynn? My honest answer is no. I wouldn't mind taking a shot with a 5th rounder.

You're my new favorite poster, I think.

I think Flynn is likely one of the better backup QBs available, and that he would make a decent though uninspiring starting QB for some team. I think he would be about on par with Alex Smith, though with less experience (which is why I decided to respond to the Alex Smith red zone comment with some evidence for Flynn in the red zone). I see the two as not all that different as far as talent level goes.

That doesn't mean he's horrible, but he's probably not worth what he and Alex Smith are getting paid, and he's definitely not worth it if he's just going to hold a clipboard for us. So I think it makes sense to move him if the team can get something out of it (and the prospect of getting a mid-round pick and freeing up a few million in cap room is definitely something).

That said, I see the absolute most we could get for him as being a 2nd round pick. Yes, teams have paid more for unproven guys they hope to turn to starters, but the fact of the matter is that the track record for FA/traded QBs like that isn't stellar. For every Hasselbeck, there's a Scott Mitchell, Kevin Kolb, Jay Fiedler, and Rob Johnson (or even Charlie Whitehurst). That is going to come into play when a QB-needy team starts saying, "Okay, who can we get and how much are we willing to spend?" The only reason I think a 2nd round pick is even within the realm of possibility is because sometimes, GMs are desperate.

I think it's almost a lock that Matt Flynn will be playing for someone else in 2013 (at least I hope he's playing and not just holding a clipboard in different colors). I think it's incredibly likely that the Seahawks will get some trade value for him, so he won't be cut. I also think it's very likely that the trade value will be in the high 4th to high 5th range (maybe even something conditional where if he plays X% of snaps, the pick goes from a 4th to a 3rd or something like that).

Do we really need to trade Flynn this offseason? Is it possible to trade him during next season after he gets a chance to show more of his stuff during preseason?

If Flynn makes a good showing in the preseason, maybe he becomes more attractive to a team that is just a decent QB away from the postseason, e.g. the Jets, Chiefs, Eagles. I think the calculus for a Matt Flynn trade will change significantly after teams realize that 1) we will not cut Flynn and 2) their other QB options fall through, e.g. they lose all hope in their rookie or FA QB

Does anybody know how the cap numbers work out if he is traded during next season?