I feel like I am a child in a dysfunctional marriage that is heading for a divorce. My parents no longer talk to each other except to argue and call each other names. Why do I say that? Because I am a political independent who is tired of the dehumanizing and demeaning behavior of both political parties. I certainly must not be alone in feeling this way.

A little history. In 2015 I came out strongly against the candidacy of Donald Trump on facebook and in several articles at the conservative website – The Stream. It was not a political decision as no one at that time knew what his true political values were (I think we still don’t). But his willingness to ridicule others and his calls for violence against protesters concerned me. Yes his sexism and race-baiting was disturbing as well. But it was the overall package of playing to the worst instincts of ethnocentrism and fear in Americans that drove much of my hostility towards him.

I decided that Clinton would probably be a better president, but she has her own issues. So I could not support her. Eventually I decided to, for the first time in my life, vote third party and supported the American Solidarity Party. I think for the first time in my life I did not vote for the “lesser of two evils” and it felt good. Yes many of my friends thought I was throwing away my vote, but at least I would not own the mess that was being brought to our government.

To my surprise, Trump won. Many of my conservative friends were jumping for joy and many of my progressive friends were stunned, as was I. In fact, right after his victory, I started looking forward to 2020 when we would get new leadership, even if it was leadership that I disagreed with on many political issues. But I no longer feel that way. I do not think a Democrat government coming in 2020 will make us better off. What happened to change my mind?

Well, the resistance happened. I watched as individuals harassed their political opponents where they ate and where they worked. I observed the demeaning comments made of anyone who dared to disagree with the ideas forwarded by those opposing Trump. Progressives have for some time had a problem of failing to debate issues and falling back on calling their opponents racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted and now rape apologists. Over the past two years, that has only gotten worse. There have been rejections of family members over their support of Trump. And while the AntiFa do not have the history of violence of white supremacist groups, they seem to be doing all they can to show that they can use threats of violence as a tool of intimidation as well. The same instinct to motivate by hate and ideological ethnocentrism by Trump was now becoming more evident in the resistance towards him.

I am not talking about a few marginalized voices. There are always individuals in a group who embarrass the other members of that group and whom we do not want to claim. I certainly do not want to claim Fred Phelps, and I have yet to run into a Christian who does. But that is not what is happening. Note for example comments from congresswomen Maxine Waters, and Senator Mazie Hirono who either refuse to condemn such harassment or even endorse it. These are not marginal figures in the Democrat party. By the way, how many prominent Democrats have condemned the attempted harassment of Republican officials? Are they waiting for someone to actually engage in violence against those officials before saying something? Too late.

And it is not just political leaders. Note that Joel Kaplan, a friend of Kavanaugh was criticized for attending the hearing to support his friend. Perhaps there was a time when we respected someone who stood by a friend, even if we did not like the person he was supporting. Not anymore. Now if you try to support your friend, and that friend is not in the current progressive mainstream you will be expected to apologize for being there for your friend. When will this madness end?

So back in 2016 I was concerned about a coming administration that dehumanized its opponents, engaged in demeaning rhetoric, and did not mind using the threats of violence against those outgroup members. Now I see a resistance to that administration that dehumanized its opponents, engaged in demeaning rhetoric, and did not mind using the threats of violence against those outgroup members. At some point you just have to stop the madness and get out of the vicious cycle. I do not know if this is an enduring trend for me. Maybe I will vote third party again in 2020 (a possibility), or one of the parties will actually run someone who sees his/her political opponents as fully realized human beings (unlikely). But for this election cycle, I am sitting it out.

I know that some will argue that I should vote for the lesser of two evils. That way less damage will be done. But is not the lesser of two evils still evil? Perhaps if more of us stopped doing that to vote third party or to not vote at all, then more attention will paid to those of us who are tired of all of this viciousness and fighting. Since we do not have a governmental system that supports more than two parties (Oh how I wished we did) having large numbers of getable voters who refuse to vote may be the best way to get the attention of our political leaders.

By the way, let me be clear that this problem is not merely due to our politicians. It is our media that is the problem as well. During the Kavanaugh hearings, I could turn to Fox and have progressives described as snowflakes or I could turn to CNN or MSNBC and have conservative described as rape apologists. What I could not do is turn to a station and hear someone talk about what was motivating both sides of the debate in ways that humanized progressives and conservatives. Maybe if we stopped voting, then the media will realize that there are those of us out there who want to see issues discussed with nuance and for us to find compromises where possible.

I do hope there are many more who are tired of this as I am. Sometimes I think about whether those of us not invested into hating political opponents could have about three states where we could live and find compromises to the problems that arise. Those using terms such as “libtard” and “rethuglican” would not be allowed. Yeah I know this is unrealistic, but it shows just how exhausting all of this fighting has become.

I know that the emotions are up and that we are expecting a high turnout for the midterms. My non-voting will not make a great deal of difference, and I am unlikely to persuade many to join me. Nevertheless, I still will not participate in the dog and pony show for at least one voting cycle. No waiting in long lines for me to vote this year. I have better things to do with my time. I am staying home.

Update: Feel free to use obscenities in other places. But know that vulgar obscenities will get your comment removed here. Repeated violation of this rule will get you banned.

Update2: Some of you accuse me of false equivalency. In the short time since I published this post I have heard of three Republican officials who have been assaulted.

Perhaps Democrat officials are being attacked at a greater rate but I have not yet seen that. Note that this blog is not a defense of Trump in the slightest. But to say that he is the only toxic voice in our political sphere is now to ignore reality. I think an honest introspection from Democrats and progressives would attempt to see how they may have created the type of environment where such attacks are becoming too common. Certainly the recent statements from Clinton, and Booker do not help. I can find more examples these do not convince you that this incivility is not also a problem on the left then I do not know if even a murder of a Republican will do the trick. Nevertheless, I am not going to vote out of office an violence accepting, authoritarian party to replace it with another violence accepting, authoritarian party. You do what you want with your vote. This time I am staying home.

It’s me, the christian who is more upset at the response to child concentration camps than the child concentration camps self.

georgeyancey

And the conservative Christian would reply why are you not upset at the millions of children killed in their mother’s womb every year. Your Whataboutism is not very convincing.

TinnyWhistler

Whataboutism? You said that the reason you’re not voting is because you’re upset at the response to stuff the R’s have done. That’s what your article’s about.

georgeyancey

I am peeved at both the Rs and the Ds. That is what the article is about.

TinnyWhistler

Your words:

“What happened to change my mind?

Well, the resistance happened. I watched as individuals harassed their political opponents where they ate and where they worked. I observed the demeaning comments made of anyone who dared to disagree with the ideas forwarded by those opposing Trump. Progressives have for some time had a problem of failing to debate issues and falling back on calling their opponents racist, sexist, homophobic, bigoted and now rape apologists. Over the past two years, that has only gotten worse. There have been rejections of family members over their support of Trump. And while the AntiFa do not have the history of violence of white supremacist groups, they seem to be doing all they can to show that they can use threats of violence as a tool of intimidation as well. The same instinct to motivate by hate and ideological ethnocentrism by Trump was now becoming more evident in the resistance towards him.”

georgeyancey

I guess you missed this part:

In 2015 I came out strongly against the candidacy of Donald Trump on facebook and in several articles at the conservative website – The Stream. It was not a political decision as no one at that time knew what his true political values were (I think we still don’t). But his willingness to ridicule others and his calls for violence against protesters concerned me. Yes his sexism and race-baiting was disturbing as well. But it was the overall package of playing to the worst instincts of ethnocentrism and fear in Americans that drove much of my hostility towards him.

So yeah I am peeved at both parties.

TinnyWhistler

Yes, and you said that’s why you didn’t vote for him and were planning to vote against him in the future. The reason you gave in the article for why you changed your mind about your future vote was the resistance.

Fartrell Cluggins

But yet the other side, doing all they can with what little power they hold, is just as bad for trying to resist his terrible policies and crass nature? Such a disingenuous disconnect. How dare they stand up for the rights of all Americans, not just the ones who vote for them, like Trump does. How dare the left hold the truth and facts and decency dear as they reject the right’s outright disregard for those same things?

You know what, I’m damn proud of those who are standing up to our elected officials WHO WORK FOR US, holding them accountable for the terrible policies they support. The worst we can do is sit idly by and watch our country crumble from inaction and standing up for what’s right and decent and moral.

Fartrell Cluggins

At least you’re not another (R) voter this cycle, and for that, we thank you.

georgeyancey

Ahhh. Thank you. Finally someone who knows that not voting is not the same as supporting Republicans.

Pennybird

May I suggest to you that since the Republican congress refuses to exercise their oversight on the president that it would behoove you to vote for Democrats, just to right the ship? I don’t know what is in the Mueller report, but I strongly believe it will have some very illegal stuff in it. Stuff that never would pass muster if the president wasn’t doing the bidding for a minority of Americans. But you and I both know that regardless of what is uncovered, Republicans in congress will meet it with a resounding “meh.”

If you’re going to execute a “whataboutism”, it would help to know who the other person is beforehand, and there are plenty of people who are pro-life who are bloody furious about the concentration camps.

Fartrell Cluggins

Typical “conservative christian”, cares only about the fetuses, but only up until they’re born, then, “you’re on your own, pull yourself up by your bootstraps kid.”

steveiam

‘…children killed in their mother’s womb…’ Perhaps, you skipped Biology 101, or your religion forbade participation, but that
aborted is not a child at that point. Bible humpers are despicable in abridging Women’s Rights. You, and your gaggle are not
convincing.

georgeyancey

Yeah. You right. It is not a human child. t is a rabbit they are taking out of the women. And they say that Christians do not respect science.

steveiam

Perhaps, what is not respected is ignorance, and self described illiteracy. You exhibit both.

georgeyancey

Sure. Show me the scientific study where a women is not carrying a child. I will wait.

If they’re in the womb, they’re not children. The idea that personhood (or, even more dishonestly, “life”) begins at conception is an absurd position, and accusing someone of hypocrisy simply because they don’t accept your redefinition of “person” is not much of an argument. And if conservative Christians really cared about reducing abortion, they would support contraception and medical care. Did you know that estimates put the number of spontaneous abortions at around two to three times the rate of voluntary abortions? Why aren’t conservative Christians campaigning for something to be done about spontaneous abortions?

georgeyancey

Look I can deal with your stupid strawman arguments about abortion but I am not going down that rabbit hole. The whole point is that if I am going to vote on one issue it probably would not be the thousands of kids being detained but the millions how are killed in the womb. I do not vote on a single issue but I have different priorities then others who want to pressure me to vote on their priorities. Do not tell me that I am changing the subject when this is precisely what you and steveIam want to do.

UWIR

“Look I can deal with your stupid strawman arguments about abortion”

What strawman argument have I posted?

“The whole point is that if I am going to vote on one issue it probably would not be the thousands of kids being detained but the millions how are killed in the womb.”

Your post wasn’t about *your* voting policies, it was a response to Jansmt7’s post. Jansmt7 was discussing an issue THEY are concerned with, not YOUR voting policies. You responded to a criticism about child detention centers with some Whataboutism about abortion, while hypocritically accusing Jansmt7 of Whataboutism. Why did you write a post about incivility in politics, and then show over and over again in the comments that you’re not willing to be civil?

georgeyancey

The only reason why abortion came up is because of that comment about immigrant kids in centers. You two want to turn this into a debate on abortion and I do not have time for that debate right now. If you read the original response you should know that. So at this point you are either being disingenuous or cannot follow the discussion. Either way I have too much on my plate to go back and forth with you on this if you cannot keep up or want to distort my arguments. Out.

UWIR

You are one who brought up abortion in response to Jansmt7, and you are the one who mentioned, in your original article, your support for an organization that claims that personhood begins at conception. You keep accusing me of stuff, but refuse to defend the accusations.

NancyM

What concentration camps? While I know there have been children detained due to their parents crossing our border illegally, my understanding is their living quarters are quite a bit different from “concentration camps”.

Kevin R. Cross

Then your understanding is quite flawed.

Kevin R. Cross

I might respectfully suggest that you vote Democrat for the house and Senate, for the following reason: They hate Trump. Trump hates them. If the Democrats win either, then either the two sides find a way to pound out compromises, or the Federal Government will do nothing for two years. Both outcomes are, to my mind, superior to the status quo.

CorneliusFB

Or maybe all the cultural theater is actually designed to distract us from the fact that on almost every consequential issue, both parties favor austerity and empire building and maintenance.

They may hate each other for real but their warmongering corporate bosses are glad to see them fighting but also more than happy to replace them with polite politicians to do their bidding.

Kevin R. Cross

I don’t disagree with you. The ultimate solution eludes me, because the problem is inherent in the system we use. But that said, even if we end up with a bunch of corporate Dems replacing the corporate Reps, it’s clear their hatred for one another is very real, and that would still give us an advantage in either better or lesser governance.

Pennybird

No, not everyone favors austerity. It is what has lead to our unsustainable income inequality. But I do agree that this divide and conquer mechanism is working wonders for someone, probably Russia, definitely our corporate masters. Look how many underemployed people champion tax cuts for the guys who haven’t given them raises in ten years.

Pilgrim

I doubt both political parties hate each other. There are pictures (last year’s) showing
House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi’s son posted a photo of him standing next to First Daughter Ivanka Trump on Instagram.Paul Pelosi Jr. was pictured smiling as he rang in 2018 at the New
Years Eve party at President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property. As George Carlin once said, ‘It’s a big club, and you’re not in it’. Both parties are riddled with corruption to their cores. And yes, the lesser evil is still evil.

Wesley

the best solution it for third party candidates to win their respective races. unfortunately most Americans have bought into the bi-party system and refuse to look for answers outside the two parties.

Kevin R. Cross

That would be better still, but as you say, not realistic at this time. Definitely something to work towards.

TinnyWhistler

Do you actually think that’s realistic with our current voting system? Simple majority is notorious for leading to two party systems and discouraging similar candidates

NancyM

Status quo? For once we have somebody getting things done and not playing to the status quo.

Kevin R. Cross

? What on earth do you mean? The only thing the current non-government has managed is to sabotage the Affordable Care Act, traumatize thousands of children, give a pile of money we don’t have to the already rich and knock the USA from being leader of the free-world to also-ran. Compared to this, outright stagnation would be an improvement.

(Trump) ‘…approval by African-American voters is way up…’ Kenya West, and who else?

Kevin R. Cross

36% approval isn’t “happy”. For a sitting President it’s pretty abysmal.
However, I’ve always been one to allow the other to state their case. What do you see as Trump’s accomplishments? What has he done to get your approval? I’m actually interested, because from where I’m sitting I honestly cannot think of a single action he’s taken that has been in the USA’s interest or the interest of the people of our nation.

NancyM

Well first, the 36% approval is African-American approval up from single digits.

UWIR

You consider people hating you slightly less than they used to an “accomplishment”? Wow, that’s some serious desperation there. Do you have any examples of Trump making things better, rather than simply making them not quite as bad? More importantly, do you have an example of Trump making things better *for the country*, rather than for himself?

theresa perry

Yes, it is up double -digits. From 6-7% in 2017 to 13% as of August 2018. 36% is a fantasy. http://www.quora.com/Does-President-Trump-really-have -a-31% approval-rating. ps: As for the Black unemployment rate, it was 17.9% in 2012, still during the Recession, and Obama was being blocked as much as possible by Republicans. By Dec. 2016 black unemployment was at 7.8%, Obama was STILL president. By Feb. 2017 it had fallen to 6.6%, and Trump tried to claim credit for ALL ELEVEN POINT THREE PERCENT!! By May it was 5.9% but went back to 6.3% in Sept. So far in Oct. it is 6.0%, but it is STILL almost DOUBLE that of white unemployment (3.3%). Sorry you are naïve enough to believe the hype. A white man with a criminal record STILL has a better chance of landing a job than a black man with a bachelor’s degree .https://csgjusticecenter.org.

That was a Rasmussen Poll, which is a known conservative group, and it was done in August. In the same month, a poll by the NAACP showed his black support at 21% and Pew Research polled black support at 14%. YOU just chose to take the one that would back up your statement. Doesn’t make it right.

NancyM

Democrats believe liberal pollsters, but I’m not supposed to believe a conservative leaning poll? The NAACP obviously is left-leaning. Why should I believe them?

theresa perry

What about the Pew Poll? It showed even less support than the NAACP poll. But of course, you’ll believe what you want. It still doesn’t make it true.

NancyM

OK, let’s go with 21. In any case, black and Hispanic support is rising.

theresa perry

Oh THAT’S RICH!! Before you didn’t believe the NAACP, because they were “left-leaning”. Now SUDDENLY you “believe” the “left-leaners”??? Why? As long as it fits your narrative, they have your support, huh? But it STILL isn’t 36% and you know it! ps: Contrary to “popular ” belief, “All Black people don’t vote alike, just like, all Black people don’t look alike” I wonder how many African-Americans do you come in contact with on a daily basis?

NancyM

I’m sorry you’re getting upset. I’m just saying that more people are supporting Trump. Unemployment is low and the economy is strong among other things that some people support.

theresa perry

Oh you poor thing. You don’t even know a snarky comment when you read one. “Oh THAT’S RICH” (just in case you didn’t understand which comment I meant). How sad. You remind me of the friend who tells the battered woman: “Well at least you have a roof over your head and food. Just because he might slap you around, a couple times a month, or berates you in public…well girl, look at the “bright side”, and don’t complain. You COULD be out on the street with your “dignity”. Hey NancyM ! WHERE’S YOURS?

NancyM

Have a nice day.

theresa perry

Well you too, Sweetie. “This is the day the Lord has made. Let us rejoice and be glad in it.” Psalm 118:24

Wow, what a litany of failure and evil. Aside from the fact that it’s Charisma (anything but a reliable source), let me point out:
Federal government funding was already banned from being used for abortions. All Trump’s “defunding” actions for Planned Parenthood have done is deprived poor people of good advice and assistance for fertility control and health assistance.
His “religious liberty” actions are just cover for inhumane and evil bigotry towards minorities. Actual religious liberty was already fully protected.
The IRS was required BY LAW to act against non-profit organizations that conducted political activism in favour of specific candidates. Trump’s executive order was illegal and immoral.
Moving the embassy to Jerusalem and recognizing Jerusalem as Israel’s capital reduces respect for the US throughout the Middle East and only further destabilizes the situation.
The Iran deal was good for the USA, resolved the problem with Iran, opened the possibility of better relations and showed the success of the US diplomacy (the deal was almost entirely US driven). Pulling out has set back diplomatic efforts by decades, more or less ensured that Iran WILL build nuclear weapons to protect itself from US aggression, and hung our European allies out to dry. I count this as Trump’s single stupidest mistake so far.
“Slashed government regulations” – yeah, like the Clean Air Act, the Clean Water Act, funding for the EPA…I hope you like pollution, you’re going to be seeing a lot more of it.
“Decreased food stamp use by 500,000 in one month.” By throwing 500 000 people OFF THE PROGRAM in one month. 500 000 more Americans who don’t know where their next meal is coming from.
“Increased the stock market to an all-time high.” While real value of wages has DROPPED.
Honestly, you’ve just made my point for me. Trumpo the incompetent has done NOTHING for the USA, and considerable to harm it.

NancyM

If Charisma is not a reliable source, why do you read it?

Kevin R. Cross

Because you linked to it. Otherwise, I generally don’t.

NancyM

I’m sorry, I am often on disqus from charisma, but this article did not come from charisma. My bad.

Kevin R. Cross

No problem. Easy mistake to make.

fractal

Yes,

Caging children is so Christ-like.

NancyM

What if the children were put in fenced in areas for their protection?

rwethi

That’s ALL you are able to reply? Are you really some kind of a BOT? Otherwise: please keep on with the discourse and reply to Kevin – one subject after the other… if you do not lack of arguments in the meantime!

NancyM

Why the insults? Do you how many times we have been called bots.

rwethi

Who are: WE? So you are NOT? Hope so…! And: it is impossible to insult a bot, right? 😉

NancyM

Anyone you disagree with. Like #Walkaway people.

rwethi

Did you notice that you are speaking in PLURALIS MAJESTATIS (majestic plural) here? Absolutely ridiculous and completely inappropriate!

NancyM

OK, let me say that I am not a bot. But I will also point out that this is a frequent accusation that I have seen, although not made by you. I have seen people with T-shirts that say “I am not a Russian bot” because it has become so frequent.

rwethi

That’s okay… Now: please reply to Kevin’s ideas, please!

NancyM

I am not under the impression I am going to change his mind about anything. We just have to agree to disagree and let the American people decide.

rwethi

Changing “his mind about anything” is not your task here! Kevin told you in details why – from his point of you – you and the other followers of THE LIAR (I refuse to use his name – because being a German I feel ashamed that this guy has German heritage…) are wrong. Stick to the subjects – if you are able to give us answers. We – the “public” within this forum – are eager to find if there is anything else you have to tell us…

Pennybird

We’ll see in a couple of weeks, but he could be encouraging more citizens to vote.

Kevin R. Cross

Well, more citizens voting is always a good thing.

steveiam

Yes, Trump, and his minions are “…getting things done…” That is why our Country is in deep trouble, and getting more so.

NancyM

LUnemployment down, regulations rolled back to free businesses to thrive, North Korea not sending up rockets anymore, new trade deals with Canada and Mexico, moving our Embassy to Jerusalem, which was passed by Congress but previous Presidents didn’t have the courage to do, pulled out of the useless Paris Accord, just brought home North Korean-American prisoners and a pastor imprisoned for two years in Turkey, working on prison reform,etc. The only thing that’s really troubling is the unhinged left.
Best told by this guy, Brandon Straka.https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=51UGcghHZsk

steveiam

‘Nancy…’ You REALLY bought the Kool Aid, all of it…and, to boot you quote this dicey nonentity. We also find it more than strange that ANY woman, with any self respect would back Trump. Pathetic.

NancyM

Oh I back him. I didn’t used to like him, but now I love him. I love his courage, I love that he loves our country, I love that he’s politically incorrect. And like Kanye said, nobody’s going to bully me to not love him. I pray someday we can return to civility.

NC

Lemme get this straight: it’s uncivil and bad when the left does it, but it’s politically incorrect and good when Trump does it. I see.

RPlavo .

He’s an ugly American whose creed is “I
Can say Do and have what I want”

fractal

So you get inspiration from a manic rant by a bipolar narcissist married to a Kardashian?
Did you even graduate from High School?

rwethi

I pray that you, the other disciples of that POTUS and the POTUS himself will “return to civility” IMMEDIATELY! It seems to me that all of you are not only “politically” incorrect. And that’s something which gives not only your country but the whole world: GREAT TROUBLES! Please open your eyes before it is too late for all of us!

NancyM

What is it that you are so troubled by? What is the world troubled by? I admit, 1 to 2% of the time, Trump is saying something he shouldn’t. The other 98% of a time he’s taking care of business. And I’m so confused, because the list is growing of Democratic leaders encouraging incivility, to “get in their faces”. A Republican Congressman was almost killed, a Republican candidate was recently almost stabbed except the knife malfunctioned, a Republican woman was just attacked in Minnesota, Antifa, streets being blocked, people harassed in restaurants. What is it Trump supporters are doing?

theresa perry

Monday 10/22 Bomb was found at George Soros’ home. Wednesday 10/24 bombs found at the homes of the Obamas, Clintons, Eric Holder, and in the mailroom of CNN in NYC. All were successfully disarmed, but were the type to inflict severe bodily harm. Think maybe they had the wrong addresses?

NancyM

Obviously this is a terrible situation. I will wait to see what investigations show as to who is responsible. People are worked up now, but they didn’t seem so worked up when Steve Scalise was fighting for his life in the hospital from the Bernie bro shooter.

theresa perry

You kidding? It was in all the papers, and on all the news outlets. The shooting was extensively covered. People offered their thoughts and prayers. What else did you want them to do?

theresa perry

I disagree! ALL the news sources covered it, an there were the many “our thoughts and prayers” (as are required) from BOTH political sides. And they did it for DAYS! What else should have been done?

NancyM

For days, yes. And then the shooter’s name disappeared. In this article, the writer notes that a Wall Street Journal article talks about Scalise’s recovery but never mentions the shooter or situation. And Republicans know exactly what this guy says in this paragraph:
“If James T. Hodgkinson had been a Trump supporter who shot and almost killed a “Democratic congressman for political reasons, he’d be the most infamous man in America. But now, just two months after his attempt to murder a group of Republican lawmakers, he’s not even worth mentioning.”https://dailycaller.com/2017/08/22/james-t-hodgkinson-attempted-assassin-of-steve-scalise-already-being-erased-from-history/?utm_source=site-share
And shortly after the days of coverage, the narrative went right back to how violent right wing people are.

NancyM

“Disarmed”. Most I’ve heard were not capable of exploding. Included powder that was not explosive, made of plastic not metal, did not have detonators, were not put together properly. It’s still scary and they should still go to jail whoever they are, but I need to see proof that any one of them was a real bomb and we will see who is the perpetrator is.
Meanwhile,
“New Jersey Republican congressional candidate Jay Webber received a letter Wednesday that contained threats of violence against his children and demanded that he withdraw from the race to represent the state’s eleventh district.
“What the f**k is wrong with you . . . scumbag?” the typed letter reads. “You BETTER hope that you don’t win! Or else. How many kids do you have . . . 7? Unlucky 7. That is what we think of you. Time to get out of politics.” Hopefully they find out who did this as well.

I see, Gish Gallop time. Between 2010 and 2016, unemployment went down on average .85 percentage points per year. Since Trump has taken office, it’s average .65 percentage points.

Pennybird

The part about rolling back regulations so businesses can thrive is mostly a Republican talking point. Regulations keep workers safe and the air clean, things we all want for ourselves, if no one else (a hallmark of a Republican talking point). NK progress remains to be seen – it’s entirely possible the US got played. As for bringing home a handful of people, though I’m glad they’re back too, doesn’t make up for the number of lives being shattered by this administration, namely refugee children. History ain’t going to look kindly on this.

fractal

Sure.

Why does anyone need OSHA or food inspectors?
As Reagan said “Let the industry police itself”.
Working out great, isn’t it!
Only a few children a day dying from Listeria and E-Coli…
And we all know how much y’all LOVE CHILDREN…

NancyM

The Republicans hate children, love dirty water and air and push grandma over the cliff are not valid arguments. Of course that’s ridiculous and is slander and offensive. And of course we need some regulation, just not crippling overregulation.

RustbeltRick

I’m voting Democrat in the midterms. All the Democratic candidates on my ballot (governor, US senator, state attorney general, state rep, state senate) have steadfastly refused to engage in violent, extremist language in their campaigning. They focus on issues and solutions, and many of them tout their bipartisan record. I suppose if my preferred candidate was hounding people out of restaurants or starting “lock her up” chants, I would not vote for him/her. Fortunately that doesn’t apply to any of them.

UWIR

If you’re referring to the refusal to serve Sarah Sanders, it’s not all that honest to refer to it as “hounding” out of a restaurant. A private business decided to take its moral beliefs into account in its business dealings. Don’t conservatives support that?

Obscurely

You mean like the Colorado baker who the Supreme Court recently ruled had the right to refuse to sell custom cakes for gay weddings?

UWIR

1. Cite?

2. Homosexuality is not moral issue, and the fact that you think it does speaks quite poorly of you. What kind of person compares people getting married to a campaign of misinformation in support of xenophobia, bigotry, and oppression?

3. I was pointing out that Republicans complaining about Saners’ treatment is hypocritical, because Republicans claim to support business owners’ right to run their business as they see fit. Unless the people protesting Sanders claim to oppose protesting, they’re not being hypocritical.

Obscurely

You completely misunderstood me — I was offering the wedding cake issue as an example of Republican hypocrisy.

Obscurely

Staunch independent here — just curious if the Democratic candidates you’re voting for have explicitly condemned the harassment of Republican officials having dinner, etc? (per one of the points of the post)

RustbeltRick

Yes, all of them have.

UWIR

And by “harassment”, you mean “protest”?

Obscurely

Hey I think we’re on the same side, bro! I posted this here two days ago …

“Mr. Yancey — with respect, how do you justify sitting out the election based on the mutual incivility of (some) activists and leaders on both sides and not take into account the far larger damage undeniably being done by the POLICIES of the current administration? For example, why Republican denial of climate change trump rudeness in restaurants?”

Murigen

You voted for tRump, and depending on the state you live in you may have helped him win. Congratulations. If you do the same during the mid terms then if there is a Republican running for election or re election and wins, you will be helping.

georgeyancey

Yeah. I heard that argument from my conservative friends before the 2016 election as well on how I was electing Clinton. The argument was not impressive to me then and it still is not impressive to me now.

Murigen

Except now there is proof that the lack of voting in battle ground states is actually a vote for the opposing party. With Clinton’s first election there were three ways to vote for him. 1) to vote for him 2) to not vote at all and 3)to vote for Ross Perot. In the 2016 election the people who didn’t vote than those who voted for either candidate. Those who voted for other candidates because they hated tRump but couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Hillary were more than enough to swing the vote her way. So don’t tell me the argument isn’t valid. It is valid. People who didn’t vote or voted for a minor candidate just don’t want to believe they are the reason tRump is in office. Do you.

georgeyancey

Except you assume that if pushed I will vote the way you want. This is why this is such a losing argument. You assume that all non-voters will support you. Some thing my conservative friends assumed. Look if you want me to vote Democrat then pay attention to my complaints and address them. Stop expecting me to support a party that is okay with harassing its opponents, deplatforming speakers and using dehumanizing terms to describe out-group member. Get a few of your Democrat leaders to work towards stopping this type of incivility and then get back to me about how I should vote.

Murigen

I don’t know if you will this up coming election or not. But if you didn’t like tRump, and didn’t want him to win, you would choose the most likely candidate to beat him. That would have been Hillary. In 2020 if you really don’t want tRump you should vote for whoever the Democrats put up. Otherwise you’re voting for tRump. Believe it or not, that’s exactly what it means.

georgeyancey

Then put up someone I can vote for. Fearmongering has gotten my vote for the last time. Improve your Democrat party and then we can talk. Out.

Murigen

I’m not fear mongering. I’m stating what the facts show. People who don’t vote, in particular, like to complain after an election. They like to claim no responsibility for the outcome of the election because they didn’t vote. But that’s not true. I knew that long ago with our states elections for taxes. Not voting was, in essence, voting no twice. So, guess what, I didn’t vote on taxes issues I didn’t want! You will make you choice to vote, not vote, vote for a third party. You don’t get to claim no responsibility because you didn’t vote. When you make that choice will definitely affect the election. You will have voted, no matter which choice you make. Own it.

Fartrell Cluggins

If supposed “deplatforming” really is an issue for you, then buddy, you are way off the deep end. Have you seen and do you know about those terrible trolls who were banned from certain social media sites? If you support those goons in any way, then bub, you are truly a deplorable person and in no way whatsoever are you even close to a “christian”, and shame on you for claiming you are. Shame!

georgeyancey

I would respond to you but your comment made no sense whatsoever.

CT Planner

Do you really see the few instances of harassment at restaurants as equivalent to an arena full of Trump supporters yelling “Lock Her Up”, now about Feinstein!, and Trump telling 5,000 lies or misleading statements in less than 2 years? The warning signs are all there. Trump is a danger to our democracy.

georgeyancey

Few? It is like you have not even heard of Antifa. And even if you take them out there are the violence in college protests, the shooting of the Republican congressman, the support of verbal abusing of Republicans by prominent Democrats, the doxing of their contacts just to begin. I am no fan of Trump and he is the most powerful man in the U.S. so his words should be heavily weighted. But this talk of false equalivanecy is nonsense unless Democrats and progressives are willing to acknowledge all of the crap happening from their side as well.

UWIR

“Stop expecting me to support a party that is okay with harassing its opponents, deplatforming speakers and using dehumanizing terms to describe out-group member.”

What are you talking about? That some Democrats have advocated protests?

“Get a few of your Democrat leaders to work towards stopping this type of incivility and then get back to me about how I should vote.”

Are you seriously claiming that no Democrat leaders have worked towards stopping incivility?

georgeyancey

Never said none, but very few are doing so right now. And statements like Clinton’s and Holder’s should be totally unacceptable and create anger by the entire party. They have not. Deal with your party’s problems first and then I will be open to listening to them.

UWIR

You said “Get a few of your Democrat leaders to work towards stopping this type of incivility and then get back to me about how I should vote.” The clear meaning is that “a few of your Democrat leaders to working towards stopping this type of incivility” is not something that has happened. So, okay, technically, you didn’t say none, but you said less than two.

UWIR

“Except now there is proof that the lack of voting in battle ground states is actually a vote for the opposing party.”

What is that “proof”, exactly?

“With Clinton’s first election there were three ways to vote for him.”

No, there was one way to vote for him: vote for him.

“Those who voted for other candidates because they hated tRump but couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Hillary were more than enough to swing the vote her way. So don’t tell me the argument isn’t valid.”

First, using the childish term “tRump” doesn’t help your case. Second, simply declaring an argument to be valid doesn’t make it valid. Failing to act to prevent something is not the same thing as making it happen. By your argument, everyone who opposed the invasion of Iraq was supporting Saddam Hussein.

Murigen

The proof is in the numbers. The number of registered voters who didn’t vote were enough to beat either candidate.

Yes, three ways to vote. And those three ways have been and are used to attempt to defeat, if not actually defeat, a candidate. In one election (no I can’t remember which state it was in) the Green party candidate was found to actually be connected to the republican candidate. That candidate was being put forward to draw votes away from the democrat candidate.

As for the childish tag, not term, tRump…I’ve been using that since he entered the race. I could use 45 but I like the visual of tRump. I’m not declaring something that hasn’t been shown by numbers. In the past I didn’t believe this was a fact either. But I’ve seen the numbers, and I’ve seen it used in local races. I understand that it isn’t the case in every race or in every district. But it’s becoming more so and more used. Why do you think voter registrations are being held up? or voting rosters purged just before an election? or polling places being shut down? It’s because of those votes aren’t counted someone is going to get a bump.

UWIR

“The proof is in the numbers. The number of registered voters who didn’t vote were enough to beat either candidate.”

You just keep repeating that non sequitur, as if people are disagreeing with you over the numbers, rather than the relevance.

“Yes, three ways to vote. And those three ways have been and are used to attempt to defeat, if not actually defeat, a candidate.”

Not voting for someone doesn’t defeat them.

Rod Roberts

uh, this isn’t just partisan bickering anymore. It’s gone way beyond that. When an institution like the Republican Party is dominated by a small leadership cadre that STARTS at gaming the system and goes beyond that to breaking the law, and inviting in a foreign power to help with the gaming, that’s not just something with which honorable people may have a difference of opinion.

georgeyancey

Sounds like partisan bickering to me. A Republican can say when you have a political party with such toxic rhetoric that people are trying to gun down congressmen at baseball game then that is not something with which honorable people may have a different opinion. See how the game it played.

Melissa L.

Your answer is to pull the one extreme from the Democratic side and place it up for viewing? Are you kidding me? ONE Congressman got hurt badly enough to spend some time in the hospital. How many gunmen who have been fired up by Trump’s rhetoric, and the bullcrap presented as “fact” on Fox News – the conservative mouthpiece – have literally killed hundreds? no, George, if you’re going to pretend the parties are the same you are lost beyond reasonable discussion.
I mean, damn! You’re complaining that Dems and Independents are being uncivil when their reps are LITERALLY closing their offices, not holding town halls, walking away and throwing snide comments over their shoulders, contemptuously ignoring their constituents, willfully harming our democracy, but oh, how horrible we are for chanting at them in public spaces, forcing them to hold open elevators while we pour our hearts out to them, dare to demand they leave our healthcare alone so our loved ones won’t die. Yeah, you’re right, we’re just the worst!

georgeyancey

So the shooting of the congressman was a “Fox News” fact. Must have not really happened then. Got it. Hey why don’t you look at the AntiFa since the Demos are so peaceloving. Do I need to post videos of women being pepper sprayed and men getting beaten up or will that be a Fox News fact as well. I also pointed out the harassing of government officials. And in recent days we have gotten implicit acceptance of this by the former Secretary of State and Attorney General. To be honest they sound like our idiot president so yeah I do find it on both sides you would too if you were not so committed to your tribe. When Democrats “leaders” stop calling for incivility and condemn it instead then I may pay attention to your cheery picking of facts.

Fartrell Cluggins

You are truly out of touch and somebody I’m glad I only know online, George. Your whataboutism and false equivalencies are beyond pathetic and scary.

Does it not worry you that Russia has compromised an entire political party? Would you be so dismissive if roles were reversed and it was the Dems who Russia favored and was helping? Puh-leease!!!

georgeyancey

I notice that people like to use false equivalency arguments when protecting the dysfunctions of their own side. If you cannot explain why something is not a false equalvancy then do not expect me to be impressed with your statement. And yeah if the Demos were who Russia favored I still would not be voting. That has nothing to do with what I wrote.

The Antagonizer

Fake news. No proof.

Fartrell Cluggins

Typical. Facts you don’t like are automatically fake news. Such an intellectual vacuum you exist in.

fractal

You need to do your research, Moderator.
AntiFa was responsible for PROTECTING the citizens of Charlottesville, as roving gangs of Fascist Thugs roamed the streets, looking for people to assault.
Why don’t you know this?

When people will not deal with the truth right before us, on tv, video and writing, such as many people’s stories of being harassed and verbally assaulted by having a different opinion (see any black person such as Kanye), wearing a hat, being assaulted on campuses, Rand Paul being assaulted by his leftist neighbor and being seriously hurt, and the worst being Scalese being almost killed and more than spending “some time in the hospital”, then how can we even have a conversation?

Pennybird

Yes we can have conversations, but we need to agree to a basic set of truths. For example, Rand Paul’s neighbor wasn’t motivated by politics, but by a long dispute over a brush pile. And FWIW, I, a known raging leftist, felt terrible for the senator. Making it sound political, like the statement above, only fuels a fire that doesn’t need to be burning.

NancyM

Again, the thing about truth. And this is the problem, that the media won’t cover the truth and are happy to promote false narratives. Do you seriously think that Rand Paul’s neighbor bodyslammed him to the ground while Paul was mowing his lawn because of a brush pile?!
“The FBI told local Kentucky media early Sunday that an assault that left Republican Sen. Rand Paul injured and reeling was “politically motivated”.”
We Republicans are being attacked! #WalkAway People are constantly being dismissed as Russian bots and story after story by them talks of getting cussed out, insulted, shunned. It’s the truth! The list of abuses is a mile long and just today:
“The Minnesota Democratic Party has suspended a spokesman for calling for violence against Republicans even as two GOP candidates have been assaulted in suspected politically motivated attacks.
The Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party has suspended communications staffer William Davis for one week without pay after making a Facebook post joking that Democrats would “bring [Republicans] to the guillotine” on Nov. 7, the day after the midterm elections. Minnesota Republican Party chairman Jennifer Carnahan said the suspension was not enough, calling for his immediate firing in the aftermath of separate attacks against Republican candidates. She said she has been subjected to numerous death threats during her tenure as the state party leader and that death threats are no laughing matter.“
From September:
“Nothing To See Here: Networks Silent On Attempted Stabbing of GOP Candidate By Anti-Trump Attacker”
Matt Vespa | Sep 12, 2018 6

Pennybird

I’ll take your stories at face value, but I don’t think the Democratic Party is responsible for everyone who identifies as such, anymore than the Republican Party is responsible for all the right wing crackpots. Notably absent from your post, though, is the PA candidate who threatened to stomp his opponent’s face with golf spikes. That was the candidate, not a random crackpot. And the “lock her up” chants directed at political enemies rather than convicted criminals, in opposition to all that America deems good and proper. And sheesh, those nazis – no one on that side is a good person.

The point is that cherry picking news articles is hardly helpful if the goal is civil discourse. Try to vary your news outlets to get a more balanced picture. Remember, not liking a news story doesn’t make it fake.

NancyM

Democrats/anti-Trumpers are actually assaulting people, talking about guillotines, etc. What the Pa candidate said was bad and stupid, but obviously not literal, as guillotine is not literal, but a bit more violent. Hillary broke laws and got away with it and we are mad. It would be nice if Democratic leaders wouldn’t encourage it- Maxine Waters, Hillary Clinton, Eric Holder, Tom Perez, etc.

fractal

Please.

Your ilk has been threatening “the second civil war” ever since Obama was elected.

NancyM

I haven’t ever heard that. Just wanted to vote him out of office. But with Antifa and the violence and threats and harassment every day, we’re certainly more close to it. Of course I assume that the mainstream media does not report on the California candidate that was attempted to be stabbed, Republican people that were assaulted in Minnesota the other day, the excuses about Steve’s Scalese being almost killed and Rand Paul being bodyslammed to the ground and seriously injured, the Republicans that are being chased out of restaurants, the mobs in the streets shutting down traffic, and screaming in the capital and supreme court , and the censoring of conservative voices now not just on campuses, but on Facebook and Twitter and YouTube, it certainly feels closer to a real danger.

Pennybird

Allow me to rephrase it: If all we are doing is cherry picking the stories that suit our narrative and ignoring the others, then we are not conversing and we will not advance the discourse.

I don’t know what broken laws you are referring to, but with Republicans at all levels of government and them hating Hillary as much as they do, you know there would be indictments by now if there was something. Or is this where the deep state comes in handy?

NancyM

Like I said, we can’t have a conversation because people won’t admit what the truth is. From one of my favorite sites, Instapundit, hosted by a law professor at University of Tennessee, one of the few conservative professors left in academia. One of his contributors writes, and it’s true:
“I keep reading that Trump is bringing fascism to America, but it always seems to be Democrats wearing the brown shirts”. The examples are becoming daily.

Pennybird

A contributor on a conservative blog tells you something that fits your narrative and you consider that an arbiter of truth?

So then, truth is what conservatives say it is. Falsehoods are anything that liberals say. Do I have that correct? Then you are being gaslighted, hon. And not by anyone that has your back.

I’m sorry. That’s an uncomfortable truth right there.

NancyM

These comments are based on news reports, pictures, videos, etc. Not on somebody’s opinion.

rwethi

“People won’t admit what the truth is”? My goodness – don’t be so selfish and do not make yourself ridiculous, declaring that you are the one “owning” that truth! Remember what Pilate once asked Jesus…! – Many people, worldwide and especially those living outside of the U.S., “truly believe” that your insane POTUS is a real fascist. Regardless if some conservative professor or some else tries to play ping-pong in declaring that “it always seems” to be the Democrats wearing the brown shirts. You and that (junior?) professor aren’t too convincing, indeed! Try something else now…

NancyM

It’s not my opinion. It just may be that your news sources don’t show you what’s really going on. And you prove my point by calling Trump a fascist and by trying to insult the law professor.

rwethi

Sorry – but it seems that you are unable to read: I did not tell you that it is ME who thinks that THE LIAR is a fascist, right? And reading what “that professor” said really gave me some doubts about his qualifications… please understand! 😉

NancyM

And another one today. Will this be covered in the mainstream media?
“Dem operative for Soros-funded group arrested for ‘battery’ against Nevada GOP candidate’s campaign manager”

Pennybird

You have two parties with toxic rhetoric. Try not to forget Charlottesville on those days you believe only the left gets violent. And try not to forget that the leader of this country couldn’t summon up the courage to condemn it, while plenty, if not all, Democrats condemned the shooting at the baseball game.

UWIR

What about criminalizing homosexuality? Treating the rights of an actual grown human being as no more important than that of a single celled organism? Forcing people to participate in religious ceremonies? Civil servants picking and choosing which couples they want to give marriage certificates to? Are these things honorable people can have different opinions on? These are all things that actual elected officials, not just random nutjobs, support on the right. Nearly half of Alabamans said that they were willing to vote for a child molester, as long as he was also willing to break the law to violate the rights of gays and atheists.

NancyM

I think you have confused that with how the Democratic party has operated. Hopefully that will all come out with facts, DNC, FBI, Fusion GPS, Christopher Steele, FISA court lies, etc., contrary to 2 years of wasted resources on the Russian lie. We have waited to hear something to prove the Russia story is real. Now will Democrats be willing to hear the truth?

steveiam

Oh, ‘Nancy’ you really DO have your head up Trump’s rather large ass.

NancyM

No, I look for truth.

steveiam

‘uncivil answer,’ surprising coming from a Trumpanzee (“grabbed her by the pussy”). Truth is based upon FACT, not something some bible humper conjures up, or a very dicey FOXHEAD pontificates, or a ridiculous ‘Leader’ blares to the uneducated.

NancyM

Meanwhile, while the outrage continues about an offensive thing that Trump said and likely did, I still wonder why the tape wasn’t revealed then to protect women, instead of right before his election. Because he was a Democrat in 2005? Also, certain people covered up frequent sexual assault by Democratic leaders and donors, most notably Bill Clinton and Harvey Weinstein and the many other leftists that have been fired from their jobs or accused, and would not cover the heinous crimes against women and babies by Dr. Gosnell now being told in the movie.

steveiam

“…tape wasn’t revealed…” remember this was a tape of a radio show, hosted by Billie Bush, that was heard in the original by millions. Albeit, Trump fans (losers) who considered this normal. The “heinous crimes” are those committed by the churches (Pedophile Priests, and other adulterous, abuser clergy) and those who would limit the Rights of Women, LGBTQ Individuals, immigrants and minorities.

fractal

Please.

When Clinton’s accusers take a polygraph and PASS, like Anita and Christine did, I will take them seriously.
But hey, not even the Righty men who are accused will take a polygraph—Running Scared!!!
Your ilk lies all the time—heck, they even have youtube videos encouraging people to lie to the pollsters.
And your nasty church ladies are Proud of how they lie to pregnant women, telling them all sorts of misinformation so they can
SAVE A BAAAAAAAAYBEEEEEE.

Nasty business.

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Pennybird

Looking for truth in all the wrong places, it would seem. Why not wait for the Mueller report before deciding Russian interference is a lie, or do you know something other Americans don’t?

“findings may never be made public” is not the same thing as “proves Trump fans right.”

“it will be up to DOJ leaders to make the politically turbo-charged decision of whether to make Mueller’s report public.” does not mean they won’t

NancyM

I think with the article is saying is that there won’t be much to tell AND they won’t release the report. I think if there was a lot of evidence, they would say yes, there is evidence of collusion.

Silence Dogood

That is a comment unworthy of this site. There are plenty of other sites you can use to hurl your 3rd grader insults.

UWIR

What, exactly, is the “Russia lie”?

fractal

Nancy,

You don’t let us see your past comments.
Why not?
Don’t want us to see the sites you frequent?
Don’t want us to read the creepy comments you are writing elsewhere?

Or maybe, you aren’t even a woman at all, but a MRA troll, trying to convince us that women are as nasty and fascist as righty men are.
That happens a lot.
Secrecy and duplicity are not the way to gain respect.
Put your reputation where your mouth is, and open up your comment history—or be seen as the troll you probably are.

This is false. It is a false and divisive falsehood. Read the “These Truths” history book and throw away these conspiracist falsehoods; get some depth. The divisions in our country stretch in vivid lines back to Columbus, via greed, power, misunderstanding Christianity and superiority.

Fartrell Cluggins

The fact you both-sides what’s going on, equating the absolute fuckery of the GOP to what little Democrats are doing to try to at least limit it tells me how far out of touch you are with reality.

We could be in the final days of a working, breathing Republic, yet you think both parties are mean and not worth your vote. It’s exactly and precisely this mindset that gave us Trump in the first place. Too many thought some hacked emails and a private server was just as bad or worse than a constantly lying, sexual predator.

If more people hold your mentality, then I wish the absolute worst on this country, as we deserve it holding that mindset.

Take a step back man, and realize the damage the GOP and Trump, their useful idiot, is doing to the country. All the pillars are cracking and the methods written into our founding documents to limit this kind of fuckery are being ignored… and you think both sides are equally to blame. Shame on you, sir!!!!

steveiam

Not vote? That IS more than sad, it is a threat to our democracy. The definition of a Democracy is an entity where everyone can participate
and make their voice heard. Clearly, wars have been fought to achieve a vote, and abdicating that renders ones voice mute.

corky

No vote achieves nothing

Richard B

The midterms are more important than you think. This is when we choose many elected officals and pass on various measure which could very well affect you and those around you whom you care for. Thousands of people have died in order to procure voting rights throughout the world. Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water. Please reconsider. Please vote.

Wolf

You will never find a perfect candidate. Sitting this one out just makes you a part of the problem that put 45 in office in the first place. If you can’t muster the enthusiasm to vote for a candidate, then vote because you CAN vote, instead of throwing away a right that people died fighting to give you. Commit an act of appreciative patriotism.

nogodsplease

Sounds like the author isn’t able to discern very well the differences. Either that or his true alignment is not being divulged, as if to seem reasonable. But, no; there are real differences. Glaring ones. And there is no equivalence between the actions of the parties.

Ivlia Blackburn

Am curious. Having always grown up in countries where there are numerous political parties, and as a child knew of the total lunacy in England of Screaming Lord Such (a pop singer)who regularly stood in the general elections (New Zealand had the singer called the Wizard) yet you imply that the US can only field either Republican or Democrats at your general elections. Is it written in your constitution that there can only ever be 2 parties or has it become that way through generations of doing it? Is there anything stopping someone deciding to stand in opposition and working to gain followers until they can stand either for local seats or congress/senate, hoping to keep growing until they have enough followers to become a serious opposition party? It always sounds as though the law States that you either vote Republican or Democrat, anything else is illegal, yet you also mention voting for a party unaligned to either of the 2 big ones. Very confusing and as there are many articles on US politics due to your elections, followed by your presidential election in 2 years, it would be helpful to know why it seems there can only be 2 choices, and if you disagree with both views then you seem to be permitted no political representation at all.

georgeyancey

It is not written in our constitution but with our winner take all system it is hard for third parties to get any traction in our society. All the more the pity given the terrible examples of political parties we have today.

Ivlia Blackburn

Many thanks. I suppose I find the concept difficult because I am so used to living in countries where there are so many different political parties. The best examples in a way being countries such as Italy or Germany although their systems don’t really allow for a single party majority but instead a coalition, but in some respects this works well. Other systems such as UK, NZ, Australia have as many small parties but the election system allows for a majority party to rule, the UK having had a coalition for the first time in decades only recently and then not for long. Many parties have no hope at all of getting into power and, in some cases, may only field one or two candidates but still they allow for those who feel the main 2 parties (Labour,/National in NZ, Labour/Conservative in England, Conservative/Scottish Nationalist Party in Scotland, Fianna Fail/Finé Gael in Ireland for examples) don’t offer anything for them. There will always be at least one independent in the government of any of these examples, often more, but they do help hold the ruling party to account and in many cases can be the difference between remaining in power a and losing a vote of no confidence leading to a new election.

georgeyancey

More and more I am beginning to believe that on this issue the European system is superior to what we do in the U.S.

TinnyWhistler

I’ve started contacting my state legislators about changing our voting system to not be a simple majority.

JanetMermaid

This is everything that is wrong with Democrats. Republicans vote lock-step with their party almost 100% of the time. Democrats, on the other hand, are whiney babies who ‘take their toys and go home’ if their personal, pet candidate isn’t on the ballot. This is also why I have no hope for the mid-terms. Too many Democrats are blind to the impact their stubbornness has on the result (*cough* Trump *cough*). And finally, this is also why we left the country and moved to Spain last year. If I’m going to watch the country burn, I’d rather it be from 5000 miles away.

Murigen

Not all democrats choose not to vote if our personal choice doesn’t make it. I supported Hillary but when Obama won I supported and voted for him. I supported Bernie but when Hillary won I supported and voted for her. Now, with our state rep I supported one candidate and since she didn’t win in the primary I am supporting and intend on voting for the dem who won the primary. However, I do understand that there are some( both old enough to know better and young enough to not have a clue how voting in a democracy works) who get their panties in a bunch when their candidate doesn’t win. If the opposing candidate wins in their district or state it’s partly their fault. And they have to be reminded of that, again and again and again.

johnparris

I’m voting and volunteering in this election as I have since I was old enough to do so. It is a civic duty and a right. No human is perfect and no candidate is perfect but to neglect your duty because neither candidate meets your standards of perfection is to neglect your responsibility. Not voting is voting.

CroneEver

Congratulations on your moral and political purity. I hope it supports you as you live under the government you decided not to involve yourself with.

David Miller

Oh, the simplistic idea that both sides are equal! On the scale of reality if we were to compare Dems to GOP, the best comparison we could have to their levels of malignity would be to say Dems are like a kid that gets caught with the hand in a cookie jar before dinner & says “I’m sorry”.
Meanwhile the GOP is like a petulant teenager that gets caught having sex at the parent’s bed with the local Meth-dealing pervert, gets grounded by the parents & then out of spite sets the house afire. Yes, Dems & the GOP are so alike! I refuse to fall for such foolishness. We’re in a slow descent into a kleptomanic despotism with religiou$ fanatics waiting on the wings. If we don’t stop it. I will vote Democrat from dogcatcher up. I only pray Republikan$ lose so badly they purge themselves from the cancerous malignity that possesses them. Until then, they deserve winning nothing. And for those who still think Dems are as bad, as far as I know Dems NEVER stole people’s children & then sold them to religionites. https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/the-five-year-old-who-was-detained-at-the-border-and-convinced-to-sign-away-her-rights

I hope the author has a change of heart, since not voting is exactly the reason that we are where we are now. Whether you agree with the party in power or not, it is a duty – as a Citizen – to vote. A whole lot of people have worked to make it possible to vote. Vote for Mickey Mouse if you want to – but VOTE! If you choose not to fulfill your citizen’s responsibly by voting, you lose all credence when you discuss things political; in essence you become a Second Class citizen and in some states may have to re-register if you want to vote later on. Despair if you wish, but fulfill your responsibilities to the nation and cast your ballot… or be considered irrelevant for the next few years.
It is not a privilege, it is a duty, Don’t fail your nation by not voting.

I respect your position and reasoning. At some point you have to opt out of the madness. We probably won’t be asked how we voted as we enter eternity, but we should maintain our integrity while here. I’m sick of all of it from both sides and equally tired of the call to engage more intensely. Just stop. Neither politics nor political parties will save us or bring peace. Time to rise above the junk and be on a different path.

Alexandra

I was going to write a rather long comment, rebutting this one, point by point, but realized that it’s a waste of my time.

The author of this piece is behaving a bit like children do, when they don’t like the way that a game is being played and choose to throw a tantrum. There is no reasoning with such a child, until s/he has had sufficient time to cool down. Judging from the author’s responses, he is still in high dudgeon.

Aside from the fact that I believe that the author is wrong in his attempts to equate the behavior of the opposition to Trump with the behavior of Trump supporters (which seem, at present to include most Republican members of Congress), I think that his statements about the level of the rhetoric only inflame the situation.

The fact is that there are many people who are engaged in rational conversations about many things. To insist that everyone is at another’s throat is to make it seem more so. It would be far more helpful if bloggers such as this author might take the time to talk to people in a calmer manner and to write about that, instead. Of course, that might not generate as many clicks, and what blogger wants to diminish the number of clicks, right? So, maybe what we have here is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black……..

Widuran

Spot on

Pennybird

“What I could not do is turn to a station and hear someone talk about what was motivating both sides of the debate in ways that humanized progressives and conservatives.”

You could have gone to NPR’s news shows in the morning and late afternoon and not gotten hostile commentary. They present the news and allow others to make up their minds. When they have commentary it’s generally someone from each side, neither one rabid (and NPR does have opinionated shows which are not presented as news) Or you could go back to the broadcast news stations in the evening, which also presents news and is very light on commentary. NPR spends more than a few seconds on their stories so you are more likely to get a better picture than on the network news. But it is not true that it is unavailable.

Yes! I would also suggest the PBS Newshour. Public radio and television remain committed to civil, fair, and balanced news.

NancyM

The voices of 60 million aborted babies cries out, “Where is the church?” If we do not do our part to vote in pro-life candidates to try to turn this tide, we will be held accountable. ‘Silence in the face of evil is itself evil: God will not hold us guiltless.Not to speak is to speak. Not to act is to act.’ – Bonhoeffer

Widuran

Good post

UWIR

I didn’t realize dead fetuses can talk. If you can show me a fetus, alive or dead, that can talk, I’ll reconsider my position on abortion. Until then, stop redefining words.

NancyM

You refer to them as dead fetuses. That would infer that they were alive and therefore a life killed.

UWIR

The issue isn’t whether they’re alive, it’s whether they are human beings. I find it difficult to believe that you’re posting in good faith. And I think you mean “imply”.

NancyM

They are human beings, created in their mothers womb by God. He knows each one. And he knows you.

UWIR

This comment communicates nothing but that you believe that they are human beings, a fact I was already aware. Which means this was completely pointless, and it’s unclear why you bothered posting it.

I don’t think that totally non-voting is the answer. That gets interpreted as apathy. But I would say by and large don’t vote for candidates of the two corporate parties that got us in this mess. Have pretty high standards to make exceptions. I expect to make one exception. There are a couple of races where there is a third party candidate for whom I feel comfortable voting. But for most races there isn’t. For one I will write in a candidate who was not allowed on the ballot. For most of them I plan to write in slogans like “No Trickle Down.” That would seem to give a clearer message than voting for someone hardly anyone every heard of. I realize, except for rare circumstances, write-ins are basically ignored. But if all the people disgusted at what the two establishment parties offered wrote in instead of not voting, the number of write-ins would demonstrate that dissatisfaction since the total number will be reported. If nothing else, it would help support efforts to introduce democratic voting processes in states, most of which have never had such.

NancyM

This discussion is a good example of incivility. Why is everyone so angry? And this is supposed to be a religious site of some sort. I am so thankful for the #WalkAway Facebook page where people from all walks of life tell their stories and get supported no matter how differently we believe. People are tired of the incivility. They’re tired of being called names for having a thought of their own. It’s one of the most positive places to go.

Dick Modderkolk

I see what you did there. Along with the Russians and all those in this world who think the US is much to powerful, I hope you get a lot of people to go along with you.

RPlavo .

Not voting and letting Repubs get away with removing voters from the rolls, making it harder to vote, easy to rape our national parks, threaten journalists, damage the western alliance, rack up federal debt……shall I go on?

UWIR

“Eventually I decided to, for the first time in my life, vote third party and supported the American Solidarity Party.”

Let’s see: supports the absurd idea that personhood begins at conception. Claims that they oppose discrimination, but supports exempting Christians from any laws they don’t want to follow. Apparently some people are more equal than others. “oppose strains of aggressive secularism that seek to remove all traces of religious identity from the public sphere”, which is almost universally code for “support bigotry against atheists” and/or “demand that Christians get special privileges”.

In it, George Yancey whines about the fact that universities have policies requiring clubs receiving university funds to not discriminate. Yes, that’s right, in the twisty-turrvy, Orwellian world of Christian privilege, *prohibiting* discrimination is “bigotry”. George dishonestly pretends that students are getting kicked off campus for being Christian, when in fact they are merely not being allowed to USE OTHER PEOPLE’S MONEY to discriminate. Apparently, Christians have a basic human RIGHT to take other people’s money and do whatever they want with it, even discriminate against people based on their religion. A university telling people how to use the UNIVERSITY’S MONEY is, to use George’s term, an “intrusion”. Demanding other people give them money is, according to George, such a central part of Christians’ “religious identity” that interfering with this makes the university not a “safe place for them to learn”.

And George has the audacity to accuse Democrats of being unreasonable.

georgeyancey

Good to know you approve of religious discrimination. I guess based on your other posts I should not be surprised. By the way even the SC has now stated that anti-Christian discrimination can be a problems and research has documented anti-Christian prejudice and discrimination in a college setting. And other courts have found the anti-Christian bias of all-comer policies. But I am certain that we Christians deserve it for daring to want to take advantage of the same educational opportunities as everyone else.

UWIR

You’re a dishonest hypocrite. I’m not the one supporting discrimination, you are.

“By the way even the SC has now stated that anti-Christian discrimination can be a problems and research has documented anti-Christian prejudice and discrimination in a college setting.”

That is a complete non sequitur. And it’s quite hypocritical to complain about anti-Christian discrimination when most schools start the day with the pledge of allegiance. Have you written any posts about the pledge, or “In God We Trust” on the money?

“And other courts have found the anti-Christian bias of all-comer policies.”

Many courts have a clear pro-Christian bias. You aren’t proving anything other than your narcissism is shared by other Christians.

“But I am certain that we Christians deserve it for daring to want to take advantage of the same educational opportunities as everyone else.”

All-comers policies apply to everyone. You are claiming that Christians are oppressed because they don’t have special privileges.

Donalbain

Because, when you get right down to it, is there really any difference between yelling at rich men and sticking children in cages? Is there really any substantive difference between a party led by a man who praises actual Nazis and one where some women wore hats with cat ears? What IS the difference between a party of racist child abusing rapists and the other party? Hurrah for your principled centrism!

fractal

Exactly!

The Antagonizer

Collectively blame Jewish people = anti-semitism.

Collectively blame Black people = racism.

Collectively blame White people = activism

Marcus Johnson

While I get the frustration, you’re not “getting out of this vicious cycle” by not voting. You are no less a part of this system. You pay taxes, participate in the economy with your purchases, breathe the air, and live according to hundreds of policies that are sustained by the people you want no part of. Two-thirds of this country don’t vote, dude. Not voting isn’t resistance; it is conformity.

steveiam

Yes, ‘Marcus…’ you are correct, but I am still frustrated to hear those who do not vote complain about governance.

Marcus Johnson

100% agree. It is incredibly arrogant. It’s the same reaction I have to a parent who just lets their children fight each other on a playground. Yes, I know you’re exhausted, but you have a responsibility here, and you don’t absolve yourself from it just because the parties involved are acting immaturely.

Summers-lad

I write from a perspective of being glad to have more than two parties (five represented in the Scottish Parliament, and no overall majority), and better still, not having a president, so my thoughts may not be relevant, but I do believe that not voting (regardless of the thought process of the non-voter) conveys apathy, not protest. On the other hand, turning up and spoiling your ballot paper – e.g. by writing “none of the above” – may achieve little but it at least registers your protest.
I have sometimes wondered what effect it would have if votes for the “apathy party” were counted with the rest (i.e. if they exceeded the number of votes for the leading candidate, the seat would be left vacant). Would it improve our politics, or encourage people to be positively engaged?

Markus R

You are wise to follow your conscience. Our national government has been rigged for years. It’s an oligarchy that only responds to the big financial donors. In other words, Congress does what they are paid to do (google Princeton/Midwestern study of over 40 years if Congressional voting records).

Most people cannot handle the thought that our representative democracy is a sham and a scam. Indeed it’s s racket for those that profit from it). And it needs to successfully perpetuate this illusion of legitimacy to retain power. When they hold an election and only a fraction vote, they lose their legitimacy.

I’ll be not voting along with you.

fractal

Go ahead.
Pretend your hand are clean, with this mess we are in.
Your vote was a Trump vote, whether you want to pretend it was, or not.
And not voting for Democrats this year, is just a continuation of your refusal to accept responsibility for your actions.
Keep it up.
Then tell it all to Jesus—how you helped a Fascist become president.
I wish I could say God have mercy on your soul.
But right now, all I can say is I wish you wouldn’t bring the rest of us down to the gutter with you.

Your decision not to vote is actually a decision to allow let thoughtful and less faith filled people than yourself to determine the direction of the nation. I have the same issue of those who choose to be pacifists. Their decision might very well force those they have a duty to protect to become unwilling victims. Being a pacifist for most people is a luxury they can afford because they are protected by non-pacifists. A vote in the mid-term will have a significant on the direction of our country and while it is a person’s right not to vote, I see it as moral cowardice and not a principled decision.

Guillermo Martinez

Donald Trump won the election with the support of the KKK and American Nazi Party. That unassailable fact should motivated every American, whether they be Democrat, Republican, or Independent to vote in the midterms. To not vote, makes one complicit in the political corruption that led to Trump’s ascendancy… In the last political season, some elections were determine by thousands of votes… Individual political choices matter, your vote matters… Bad things happen when citizens do nothing…

Its so unfortunate, that so many have been seduced by the violence inducing demagoguery of Trump and the political machine that put him in power…

You need to vote… make those hard choices…

Guillermo Martinez

“In the end, the threat to our democracy doesn’t just come from
Donald Trump or the current batch of Republicans in Congress or too much
compromise from Democrats or Russian hacking. The biggest threat to our
democracy is indifference. The biggest threat is cynicism.” pic.twitter.com/5R5ck7QYpo…

You’re vote matters. Individual political choices matter…

rwethi

It makes absolutely no sense – no: it is “STUPID”! – to “stay at home”. For anyone who thinks even a little bit, it must be clear: my abstinence from voting always chooses the one I do not want to see in office at all! If I do not accept both parties as well as the available candidate: why don’t found a NEW party “of my own”? Since the beginning of the US, why have there been only those TWO parties playing an actual political role in America? It is MONEY, right? Exactly HERE lies the evil of a “poor democracy”!

Widuran

I agree. You can even spoil the vote

Robert Furgason

The risk incurred by voting Democrat pales in comparison to the leap of faith required to believe that not voting at all will effect some sort of change.

Obscurely

Mr. Yancey — with respect, how do you justify sitting out the election based on the mutual incivility of (some) activists and leaders on both sides and not take into account the far larger damage undeniably being done by the POLICIES of the current administration? For example, why wouldn’t a party’s position on climate change trump rudeness in restaurants? Thanks.

theresa perry

On Monday 10/22/18, a bomb was found at George Soros’ home. Earlier on Wednesday 10/24/18 live bombs have been found at homes of the Obamas, the Clintons, and in the CNN mailroom in NYC. Trump has been telling crowds at his many rallies to hate the press, and branding them as “enemies of the people”. We can continue to sit on our hands, until the “perfect” candidate comes along, however, as an African-American, too many black people have put their lives on the line and lost them, for me to “wait”. Whether you vote or not SOMEONE will win the office, and you’ll have NO RIGHT to complain, if you do not vote.

Obscurely

A hearty Amen from this pastor! Your post reminds me of Dr. King’s response to moderate white clergy who urged him to “wait” — here’s an excerpt from his powerfully prophetic “Letter from Birmingham Jail” …

“For years now I have heard the word “wait.” It rings in the ear of every Negro with a piercing familiarity. This “wait” has almost always meant “never”… We must come to see with the distinguished jurist of yesterday that “justice too long delayed is justice denied.” We have waited for more than three hundred and forty years for our God-given and constitutional rights…. I guess it is easy for those who have never felt the stinging darts of segregation to say “wait.”

theresa perry

Thank you. “Letter” should be required reading for any person who wants to take the LSAT.

Obscurely

Here’s an article by a NY Times columnist that makes what I find a MUCH more compelling argument for VOTING in the midterms. I know disciples of Fox News wouldn’t be caught dead reading the NY Times, but this pastor deems it relevant for any and all Christian voters …

NO! Have you no interest even in your state elections, or at the very least your local municipality? To me, the most important elections I vote in are the offices that effect change in my local community.

Please do not send the message to not vote! Failing to vote is the worst way to respond to the problems in our government! Surely there is some candidate in some local election that you can support with a vote – or have you not done the homework to know? Even if you find all candidates for a particular office unacceptable, you can always leave that office blank while marking your vote for all the other offices. That sends a much stronger signal than sitting at home, giving up your responsibility as a citizen.

One side has a president who called Nazis “very fine people” when a woman got killed for counterprotesting their rally. One side ripped children from their parent’s arms without plans for reunification (and if the other side had been doing that, reunification infrastructure would have already been in place, not to mention the protests we would certainly have heard from those who couldn’t let a past president wear a tan suit without trying to whip it up to a national outrage). One side put in an EPA director with an anti-environment record, and a Secretary of Education who has made it her life’s work to destroy public schools. One side forced a man onto the Supreme Court with only the saddest parody of an investigation into the three credible sexual assault claims about him, which were backed up my multiple eyewitness reports establishing a pattern of behavior. One side considers this man the “victim”. One side just sent bombs to a huge number of people the President and right-wing news sources have continually promoted fear-mongering conspiracies about. One side has a president who responded to this domestic terrorism by complaining that it distracted from the phony threat of a group of people who intend to present themselves for asylum.

David

actually in reality he NEVER called Nazis very fine people. So whatever points you may have made are invalid since you started with a lie. Anyone with the ability to read and comprehend English without the “I hate Trump”glasses on knows what he meant. This crap is why I walked away from “liberals”, you don’t value the truth.

Cordyceps sapiens

If you’re proudly marching with Nazis, you are a Nazi. The only lie is where you refuse to comprehend that, out of a misplaced devotion to centrism.

Fay Brewer

I do not believe anyone has the right to condemn you for your choices, so whatever you do is alright with me, as long as you don’t hurt other people. It’s your vote and if democracy means anything to people, we must respect that. That doesn’t mean we can’t point out when we feel you’re making a mistake, however. If you sit by the sidelines and allow monsters to continue running wild because of your cynicism, I think that’s also a moral failing. Yes, the Democrats as they are right now are not wonderful people by any means, but they’re also not people who capriciously imprison, deport, and actively suppress others. You don’t see Democrats out in force waving guns in people’s faces or bombing and gunning people down as happened just this past week. Those people are not the Democrats, so your “both sides suck” argument isn’t going to go down well.

One side decidedly sucks more than the other side and another “don’t vote” message will not help matters. But, please, vote or don’t, according to your own conscience.

LinCA

Maybe if we stopped voting, then the media will realize that there are those of us out there who want to see issues discussed with nuance and for us to find compromises where possible.

Rarely, if ever, have I seen something so utter inane, so utterly devoid of any logic.

Do you really think that the media that serves the republican base is likely to be swayed? Do you really think Fox News and Breitbart, and other right wing propaganda outlets are interested in presenting news in an non-partisan, unbiased and civil manner?

Of course not. They will only cheer you on. For them, every vote that isn’t cast is a victory.

By not voting, you cast a vote for the destruction of your own country.

Jenny

(Gets onto her soapbox. You have been warned.)

I am a Canadian, an outsider to US politics, and theologically an agnostic skeptic (in case this is important to how you view what I’m going to say.) I vote Green Party usually, sometimes NDP in the more local elections and rarely Liberal, never voted conservative and probably never will, not because I think conservatives are evil, I just don’t share the same political views.

I want to state that I don’t like the idea that conservative politicians in the US are being harassed when they eat and shop by radical left-wing groups. I don’t like that liberals in the US are being sent pipe-bombs in the mail (its been happening only to people who are against Trump, btw, even celebrities, not just news sites…)

I also don’t like this THEM vs US mentality of my American friends online, and strangers in forums. Trump is in. You agree with him or you don’t. But the bickering and quibbling is taking away from the greater, bigger picture of what the President of the United States has actually been doing to your political culture. If he were Liberal I would say the same. The United States was once a place I thought I might want to move to, during even the Bush years, and especially in the Obama years, as I move forward with the idea of becoming a full time author. But now I’m not. I full stop have seen the slow degradation of society in the US on both sides of the aisle, and I don’t like it.

People always laugh at Canadians for saying I’m sorry. Well I’m sorry to say this, but the US is a great country, full of great people and a GREAT history. It deserves an even GREATER president and government. If you are BRAVE then you will vote in the Mid-Terms, even if you are voting for a third party. Its LACK of voting, the fear that you won’t make a difference, that causes people like Trump to get in power and stay in power. If you want a better conservative then write your local government office to tell them what you are unhappy about with the conservative party. Just on’t be silent. If you don’t vote, and you tell people not to vote, what kind of message does that send to new voters, young people? That voting really doesn’t matter?

By boycotting the voting system, nothing will change. Politicians don’t leave office because you DON’T vote, they leave office because you DO! You are employing THEM! They are your employee and your vote tells them whether they are doing a good job or not. Don’t give up, have confidence and go vote. You may not feel you are making a difference, but you are participating in your system. Just think of countries where they have no vote, where they don’t get to choose, and what they would think about you not going to the polls and doing your best. I always vote. Even when I vote for the party that will never win, just because I think they are the best party. I have the freedom to vote, and I am humbled and grateful for that right.

(Gets down off her soapbox)

Inquest

I’d counsel against voting for the ASP in future.

R.A. Stewart

The house is burning, and you’re sitting on your hands because some of the firefighters are swearing at the arsonists.