Thanks for your replies folks - I really shouldnt post when Ive had a couple of beers!

Id been listening to a discussion on the radio earlier in the day about a community garden project where people have made an edible garden in a local park and people are encouraged to to just turn up whenever they like and maybe do some weeding or pick some herbs.

A few years ago I think it would have been vandalised but it all seems to be going really well as did they boxes of interesting food plants the same people put at strategic points around the local towns and villages. I wonder if it would have been such a success if it was run by a church group too - I hope the local church doesnt get conversion ideas from this........

I asked the question because I wondered what the reaction would be in other communities - then I conked out after a hard day of barbecuing with visitors - I hope this clarifies the situation lol....

It would be nice to think that people are getting less violent and more inquisitive but I could be living in dream land and was wondering if anybody else has seen any indications of anything similar......... it could all be because I grew up in the city and there was more of a dog eat dog ethic than there is (than Im noticing) now Im living away from such concentrations of people

Its very polite of you to say "strange question" - I think its totally bizarre and have no idea why I posted it here - apologies again....... but as it is here perhaps I could attempt go some way to making a silk purse out of a sows ear on the issue.

We have had centuries of the Church claiming morality as their own construct which has got us nowhere (Im speaking from England) and now, as the churches are losing their influence and behavioural science is promoting altogether different explanations Im beginning to wonder if theres a growing sense in society of telling right from wrong independently of religious/political motives and if so, does anybody have anything to say on the issue?

We hear about all kinds of neighbourhood initiatives to promote awareness of this or of that issue, and it all seems to be independent of the church - the gay issue for instance is a good topic. Despite the best efforts of the churches to suppress everything but their own version of expected norms, people eschew the traditional teachings partly because the spokespeople for the gay community make better sense and everybody loves a carnival and so building a carnival around the gay pride issue is a stroke of genius and an excellent example of celebrating differences rather than the more traditional xenophobic club over the head..... and all despite the best efforts of the church

Thats just one example of where the people have fought their way out from church oppression another one is women standing up to be counted as people too. Its still less than 150 years since women began their fight back against the oppression which had kept them in chains so long.

The very thought of a gay pride march and women with equal rights would see my dad turn in his grave as he was from the generations which were taught to give their lives for god and their country in 2 world wars and I think they reflect an education system which very much reflected a violent mindset which reinforced the church influence in government and vice versa too - all this war-like behaviour was reinforced on a social scale too with media and church compounding the message of patriotism in the name of god and country but they forget to mention profit margins too so, now that people are seeing through all this (or indeed are they), is there less reinforcement of violent attitude through the family and connected community perceptions?

So.... Im just wondering where its all leading - are children still being educated to go out there and fight for their country and god, is society gradually replacing religiously imposed morality for some kind of street cred understanding.... are we still too far off being able to tell how it will all pan out? The Bible is after all, just about the most violent and blood thirsty book Ive ever come across so a lessening of its influence has to be for the better....

Its all kind of clutching at straws but what Im asking is if people are seeing aspects of their own communities becoming less violent and if so what do you think is the cause and where do you see it going?.....

I do agree to a massive extent but have just one or two small differences of opinion....

I've always felt that religion was humanities way of setting ground rules and structure. But now it's time to move away from it.

I think thats the other way round and humanity had no say in setting the ground rules, religions set the ground rules for their own nefarious means (monotheism was imposed on the masses, not chosen) and this was usually about social control - there are similarities in all religions and the fear aspect is one which has been utilised many times - you gotta do what the religious leaders want or there will be a price to pay to whichever god is running the show...... I cant remember where I saved this link from recently but you might enjoy a read

Alpha male says what's right and wrong, you get punished if you disobey.

Theres some evidence of matriarchal rule working pretty well in older societies - I dont doubt all/many methods have been tried such as more primitive types of democracy, types which actually did what it says on the tin too lol... I havent researched it too thoroughly yet but it seems that christianity, conveniently borrowing (as iis does haha) the notions of the misogynistic Aristotle, was the very religion which stripped women of their equal status in society and relegated them to the position of substandard to their male counterparts. So prior to the christians claiming supremacy over the known world, women had more of a part to play than is generally recognised.

When the Romans set about spreading christianity through the known world they did encounter some powerful women (Boudicca for one) and it was common for women to be as present on the battle fields of those times as it was for men - lets not forget Hypatia either, a strong intelligent woman who was cut off in her prime by a christian mob

I reckon stealing food could well have been unheard of in those early societies which you refer to as theres every chance that the avarice and greed we see as commonplace today hadnt been honed to the fine art which capitalism (under the guidance of its good christian soldiers) has elevated it to and as such, I see that, whatever it was, as a far superior social order to that which religion has allowed/forced to flourish in its name.....

I think the battle between the christians and the muslims is more about profit than words of god too and the west really dont want it catching on. Despite my abhorrence of the tenets of that religion, I have observed the way the muslim people think that helping each other to get a better life is far more important than profit and this is what allows them to flourish all over the world and while the christian jolly controllers are bringing the world to the very brink of starvation yet again with their greed for profits which then lay dormant and falsely inflate the value of money, the muslim brothers are helping each other with an ease which is kept (with the use of the media) alien from the masses in the supposedly civilised world.........

For the purpose of this comment I dont care what the religion is, I just know its correct behaviour to be helping people out as opposed to stepping all over them which (the latter) is the way thats supported by christianity - is this because the tithings from the rich capitalists enable them to keep their temples to evil going and the preachers riding the best cars and feted wherever they tread? I believe it is yes - I think religion has dressed evil up as good and used fear as a weapon to quell questioning, Pascales Wager for instance or the Protestant Work Ethic - it is the opposite of good, good sees people working for the benefit of the many, not of the few evil doers - Islam definitely has the edge over christianity on that score - in my opinion of course.............

Morality is increasingly being shown by research to have developed despite religions, not because of it - its origins are thought to have predated any religion - it stands to reason (to me at least) that reciprocal behaviours would spell success for any group of people and this is exactly where xenophobia comes into the game plan and gives rise to ingroup/outgroup behaviours, a stranger has the potential of doing things differently, bringing new ways to the group and possibly causing ructions but also, those already within the group will explore different methods too and be it about hunting skills or methods of shelter, whatever, disagreements and discussions are the way things either get decided or cause divisions, so I see that religious dictates and the use of fear to control goes against the grain of finding common ground to resolve disagreement, and power, in the hands of the unscrupulous is one heck of a tool.......... could all this discord be averted?

I dont know the short term answer to that but what i see is that corruption is the norm in all countries and people are fooled all the time by the tools of the corruption such as the media etc - personally, I think that the lawyers and politicians have taken over, more forcefully than ever, from the priests and soothsayers and its just the last few stalwarts and fundies that are keeping the whole religion thing going........ perhaps they will eventually do a better job of it too, that remains to be seen but at least they are open to changes in the laws if enough people make the right noises - it all comes right back round to responsibly educating our children as the future caretakers of the wellbeing of the people of the whole world - not just our little corners of it.....

If anybody has any spare dosh at the moment I think the people of Somalia are in need again - its simply disgusting in this day and age where profit is the master, that people should be starving elsewhere - just one days worth of the profits which are made by the war profiteering companies or a percentage of the bank bonuses even would alleviate much suffering over there...... theres nothing wrong with a bit of profit but theres everything wrong with profit while people are starving - if these religious people are so 'all that' how the hell have they made such a mess of things?

It isnt as if they havent had plenty of time to get things right........

Pinning down the causes of violence in society is replete with variables in many areas of specialisation but Im reminded of a local saying from hereabouts "if they always do what they always did, then they'll always get what they always got"........ so, people end up fighting amongst themselves as artificial scarcities are created to keep prices and profits high and they are kept like pet ants in a farm as the playthings of the bankers and politicos

People generally want an easy life and are tolerant of many vicissitudes before they will act and society is very much geared to this knowledge - they eek out just enough for people to survive and a little more to some of the more privileged which keeps the aspirations of the lower earners pretty keen then blame whatever group they are currently trying to denigrate for the shortages - it makes the profit system go round but ensures there isnt much challenge for the top positions. Unless you have been groomed by the right schools etc for privilege, even in this day and age, it still happens. My question is further expanding with the addition of; if governments can lead people to do their bidding as far as wars are concerned, how much time, money, effort, psychological manipulation etc is invested in keeping the peoples fighting against each other instead of the common enemy, the rulers, those who run the whole shebang in their own interests.......

“Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”