Potential penalties for tampering could include front-office suspensions, fines and losses of draft picks. Many teams are suspicious of the league office’s desire to investigate these kind of cases because of the potential embarrassment to the league.

Gonna drop a shitload of undeniable docs and make an iron clad case and not leave it up to Stepfor Stern.

Viva La Revolution!

Cuban, TMLP, look out CBA.

Last edited by jb on Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

While concluding that tampering occurred would be great, personally I'd rather the FBI investigation (looking into LBJ's buddies profiting off his Celtic series tank job) be true, much more satisfying.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

FUDU wrote:While concluding that tampering occurred would be great, personally I'd rather the FBI investigation (looking into LBJ's buddies profiting off his Celtic series tank job) be true, much more satisfying.

I havent heard that before. Is there really speculation about that occurring or is it just wishful thinking?

“Baseball is like church. Many attend but few understand.”- Wes Westrum

"The future is like a Japanese game show, we have no idea whats going on." - Tracy Jordan

"Gentlemen, Chicolini here may talk like an idiot and look like an idiot, but don't let that fool you. He really is an idiot."-Rufus T. Firefly

FUDU wrote:While concluding that tampering occurred would be great, personally I'd rather the FBI investigation (looking into LBJ's buddies profiting off his Celtic series tank job) be true, much more satisfying.

I havent heard that before. Is there really speculation about that occurring or is it just wishful thinking?

I've heard rumblings about it from a few people close to Quicken Loans and big business downtown, but who knows. I'd be surprised if this sort of thing doesn't happen with some sort of frequency in today's sports world.

Criminals in this town used to believe in things...honor, respect."I heard your dog is sick, so bought you this shovel"

My initial reaction to that, Kingpin, is that it negated a tampering charge meant to invoke an injunction to stop LeBron from playing there. If there was wrongdoing, Miami can (and should) be accordingly punished, whether it was the result of a sign-and-trade or not.

But really your guess is as good as mine. I have no idea how that stuff works.

This is a major set up for the next CBA and who gets power as Stern stuck his thumb up his cornhole while these ass hat 20 somethings and WWW ruined the game.

May even include exposing the 21st Century Black Sox. What does TMLP care?

Well lookie here; the men who risk the capital in most of the markets aren't pleased. To me; this is TMLP's big middle finger to the stat quo. This is Pearl Harbor. TMLP is gonna lay an irrefutable case for tampering in Stern's desk and he's too impotanmt to do anythnig beholden to the major markets. Huge loss of face.

Watch it from that perspective in the next CBA.

I see a Ctown - Dallas axis forming.

TWOA is just a pawn.

But the byproduct is that TMLP and the NWO will screw Miohammi out of any ability to win a title. Read the camic sans. Nail Riles. nail draft picks until 2020. nail the cap shut. I hope those 3 can win it by themselves. Gonna need to

LP, while the cynic in me agrees that you're right, I really hope that if Gilbert presents proof of tampering that the rest of the country would be thankful that Gilbert actually tried to uncover the violation rather than just sweep the cheating under the rug.

Maybe I'm crazy, but I would sure hope that proving that Miami cheated and the Stern either ignored it or is incompetent is a pretty good way to stick it to the Heat and the NBA. And besides, getting the rules right is a purpose in and of itself. Level playing field and all that.

peeker643 wrote:With all due respect Cass and Lead, we're 20 games into the first season post-LBJ. This team was going to blow. Most saw that. It's just not going to be rebuilt in a day or a month or a year.

Very true. It's the quarter pole of Year One A.L. Too much is still unknown. Can or will Chris Grant unload vets for meaningful future pieces? Does TMLP think Grant is the man to rebuild this team, or is Grant a caretaker until TMLP finds a Holmgren?

What will happen with the labor situation? Right now, it sure looks like part or all of next season will get washed out. And how different will the league's labor rules look after the apocalypse?

All of these things influence the franchise rebuild that will take place over the next few years.

However, my area of concern is Gilbert's emotions. He's a passionate, competitive guy, and that can be a great asset in a sports owner. But he seems to have taken LBJ's defection, and how he did it, very personally. And if he becomes obsessed with Watergate tapes and taking down LeNixon, that's not his job first and foremost. His job is to make sure the Cleveland NBA franchise is a solvent, winning venture both on and off the court.

Shake the world up. That's great. Just don't get so wrapped up that you neglect to put food on the table.

peeker643 wrote:With all due respect Cass and Lead, we're 20 games into the first season post-LBJ. This team was going to blow. Most saw that. It's just not going to be rebuilt in a day or a month or a year.

Very true. It's the quarter pole of Year One A.L. Too much is still unknown. Can or will Chris Grant unload vets for meaningful future pieces? Does TMLP think Grant is the man to rebuild this team, or is Grant a caretaker until TMLP finds a Holmgren?

What will happen with the labor situation? Right now, it sure looks like part or all of next season will get washed out. And how different will the league's labor rules look after the apocalypse?

All of these things influence the franchise rebuild that will take place over the next few years.

However, my area of concern is Gilbert's emotions. He's a passionate, competitive guy, and that can be a great asset in a sports owner. But he seems to have taken LBJ's defection, and how he did it, very personally. And if he becomes obsessed with Watergate tapes and taking down LeNixon, that's not his job first and foremost. His job is to make sure the Cleveland NBA franchise is a solvent, winning venture both on and off the court.

Shake the world up. That's great. Just don't get so wrapped up that you neglect to put food on the table.

Gotcha.

On the same page with that for sure.

As an aside: this may be the most unwatchab;e Cavs team in the last 10 years at least. Even with Ricky and Darius something thug or crazy could happen any given night. This team is bland.

Cass, this is Dan Gilbert. He's head of Quicken Loans. He's overseeing building a casino and the largest downtown contruction project since what, Browns' satdium, and setting up a gambling enterprise. And yeah, he owns the cavs.

Do you really think that since he's chucking hundreds of large at (my guess) Squire, Sanders and Dempsey that he's so distracted that he's not watching enough film on the next Christian Eyenga or properly monitoring Sasha kahn's development?

Not to come off like an a-hole, but Dan Gilbrt does absolutely, positively none of that; an dthank God he doesn't. We're better off with that cat distracted as opposed to sending plays into Coach Silas. He is never going to be like other owners in town.

His problem will never be distractions or lack of attention or not doing everything it takes to win, nor is the chump change going to the legal eagles / private dicks a sum zero keeping us from hiring Jerry West, to cherry pick one.

You hav eyour BVD's in a bunch for no reason my good man.

Let him put the nail in Bron's character and expose him for being a bold faced liar about there even being a "decision". Let him screw the Heat and Riles so that Riles has to go find his protologist again like after JuJuangate. Let him expose the NBA for the shady goings on that are lurking just under the surface with the ref scandles. Let him and some of the young lions oust Stern and get this thing moving back to being a sport and away from being a WWE venture, and get control over the players who are out of control off the court.

Because I am SURE he has the resources and ability to multi-task and more than enough resources to do all he's already doing and fund this small sideshow.

None of this, BTW, has anything to do with the zombie cavs getting better. That's up to Phil Dunphy's ability , time, and luck

jb wrote:Not to come off like an a-hole, but Dan Gilbrt does absolutely, positively none of that; an dthank God he doesn't. We're better off with that cat distracted as opposed to sending plays into Coach Silas. He is never going to be like other owners in town.

His problem will never be distractions or lack of attention or not doing everything it takes to win, nor is the chump change going to the legal eagles / private dicks a sum zero keeping us from hiring Jerry West, to cherry pick one.

You hav eyour BVD's in a bunch for no reason my good man.

It's not on him to monitor the on-court product directly. I agree that I don't care a bit if he knows how Kid Congo is progressing in his ability to take his man off the dribble.

But he is the guy who needs to hire the guys who can evaluate, build and coach the roster. I think he has a good coach in Lord Byron. Can he keep Byron here once Phil Miyagi retires? We'll see. But for now it's a building block.

The go-forward plan for the Cavs does ultimately rest on what Gilbert wants. He doesn't just have a Napoleon complex, he is Napoleon as far as the Cavs are concerned. And my hope is that he doesn't get so caught up in witch-hunting LBJ that he forgets to constantly evaluate the Cavs and ensure that he has the best possible plan and man (or men) in place to make sure that the current suckfest is curtailed in as little time as possible.

I might be scanning the horizon for storm clouds that aren't there, but AFAIC it's just some food for thought.

jb wrote:Not to come off like an a-hole, but Dan Gilbrt does absolutely, positively none of that; an dthank God he doesn't. We're better off with that cat distracted as opposed to sending plays into Coach Silas. He is never going to be like other owners in town.

His problem will never be distractions or lack of attention or not doing everything it takes to win, nor is the chump change going to the legal eagles / private dicks a sum zero keeping us from hiring Jerry West, to cherry pick one.

You hav eyour BVD's in a bunch for no reason my good man.

It's not on him to monitor the on-court product directly. I agree that I don't care a bit if he knows how Kid Congo is progressing in his ability to take his man off the dribble.

But he is the guy who needs to hire the guys who can evaluate, build and coach the roster. I think he has a good coach in Lord Byron. Can he keep Byron here once Phil Miyagi retires? We'll see. But for now it's a building block.

The go-forward plan for the Cavs does ultimately rest on what Gilbert wants. He doesn't just have a Napoleon complex, he is Napoleon as far as the Cavs are concerned. And my hope is that he doesn't get so caught up in witch-hunting LBJ that he forgets to constantly evaluate the Cavs and ensure that he has the best possible plan and man (or men) in place to make sure that the current suckfest is curtailed in as little time as possible.

I might be scanning the horizon for storm clouds that aren't there, but AFAIC it's just some food for thought.

I'd rather distract him with shiney things away from the game. ;-)

But I don't think Gilbert will abide by a tear down / rebuild. I think he'll stubbornly want an on-the-fly, which I think we agree may be much more difficult.

jb wrote:Well lookie here; the men who risk the capital in most of the markets aren't pleased. To me; this is TMLP's big middle finger to the stat quo. This is Pearl Harbor. TMLP is gonna lay an irrefutable case for tampering in Stern's desk and he's too impotanmt to do anythnig beholden to the major markets. Huge loss of face.

There's a little more to it than this. Every move made right up until early July was made with the thought that Lebron would seriously consider returning to the Cavs. There's no way someone rises to the top of the finance field wishing on ponies and unicorns, so I'm certain that Gilbert had every notion he had a serious chance to re-sign Lebron. I wouldn't be surprised if that was the storyline Maverick and Wes were floating him and other league execs too. 'Don't worry, Cleveland has as good a shot as anyone to bring Bron back.' Then comes The Decision and its apparent Lebron was planning on joining his boys all along. I'm pretty sure that trading for Bosh and Wade was something TMLP wasn't hearing from Maverick and Wes. He puts two and two together, realizes he just got played to the tune of losing Roker, Ferry, the franchise's immediate future when the casino plans are in their final stages, and nine figures in franchise value. Out comes the Comic Sans.

I'm sure Rich can elucidate further since this is where he rolls, but as cut-throat as the finance business can be you don't negotiate in bad faith. You just don't. Which is also a leading reason why Gilbert is all over this like white on rice. This is no way to run a business.

"The fucking Who...... If I want to watch old people run around ill go set fire to a nursing home." - CDT

"The people from Quicken are very smart - just ask them, they'll tell you."

A lot of people in the industry need them as partners/allies. They produce a lot of volume. Few like them or like dealing with them if you chat em up at 10 PM over a couple of CC & gingers.

The whole business model with Quicken, few realize it, is that they are middle men. They lend little to none of their own money. They use their vast online and marketing presence to get people to call douchebags sitting in cubicles, wearing bluetooths, and throwing mini footballs up in the air to themselves.

They write you a loan, either at a market rate with higher fees, or at an above market rate. That loan, and the loans being made by the other 1000 Joe Docuhebags in the adjacent cubicles gets packaged and sold right away to the Wells, Chases, Fannies, Freddies, and Bank of Americas of the world. They take a nice piece out of the middle. 50% goes to Gilbert. 25% goes to Joe Douchebag, 25% goes to the people that work to close the loan. Oversimplifying it a little, but thats the model.

Anyone that goes to Quicken will never get as good a deal as someone that goes direct to a lender and takes out the middle man. Gilbert knows how to market though. Its powerful. People reading this have likely been sucked in and done their loan through Quicken.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns