Since this has been such a long and fat legged story for the past week+, its' been on my mind. I would very rarely be able to say, on this forum, that I have thought about something for a longer time and more deeply than any other member, but this time, I think I may have.

For the record, I do NOT see this as a political or religious issue, yet the separation of church and state has gone a bit wackier than usual on this one.

I should be able to (legally--federally) marry anyone I please. I should be killed by my closest friends the instant I announce that I'm going to exercise that right. My view here may be singular, but it's not personal.

Why would I elect to particpate in a social (church, state, cultural) construct that fails for half of those who do? It seems hardly something to defend when more than every other one of "you" is willing to ignore it (when it suits you) violate it (when it suits you) or abandon it (when it suits you). Where's the sanctity in that?! The results are almost always devastating for everyone and the adults involved are not the ones being most damaged, though their solipsism in those circumstances may lead them to believe they are.

I had a leather epiphany in 1983. I realized that gay men in leather were actively adopting the outward appearances of the very people who would oppress them. Longing for the right to marry is hardly different.

And making, buying or negotiating for children? You've got to be kidding me. You selfish bastards! You've been absolved from those responsiblities just by being what you are. Use that time, money and effort to work for the greater good. Make 20 kids lives better, or 100, or 1,000! You don't need to get to anyone's recital or make dinner for anyone. You're free to be a humanitarian. How many people get to do that? Your club-dancin'-with-fat-girls days are over, you airheaded little "foggot." You have a larger purpose.

You want to adopt non-infants/toddlers of any race, older foster kids? Now you're talkin'---and you're not pretending anything. Awesome!

If we had any self-respect, and we don't, (it's not fully allowed yet, anyway), we wouldn't want to immitate others in the search for ourselves. "Well, if we try to be more like you, then you'll more readily accept us." Bullshit. Hasn't 50 years of Black civil rights struggles demonstranted anything to anyone?!!!! Crap, it hasn't even taught women anything.

Why? Because everyone is longing for homogeneity. Women's primary method to achieve equality? Adopt more of men's values. Everyone becoming straight, white men is the answer to nothing.

Since I'm not you, I'm not going to long to become you, got it?I want none of the things you value the most; wealth, power, status, and hot babes. The first three are used to control others and I've never found the attractiveness of youth to be compelling.

See, I'm just me. Not for a moment do I want to be you, but I want to be allowed to get away with everything you do, though I may choose not to be that stupid.

n.b. "you" doesn't indict anyone of you, necessarily, but if you're an SWM, then you qualify. I really wanted to use "you people" in purple and red, all caps. You DO know that I can say "you people" and not be perceived as a biggot, right? Who's got da powah now, bitches?

P.S. And if you really do hate gay people that much, then, don't let them get married, FORCE them to!!!

Edited by BobKay (05/14/1212:08 PM)

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LIFE ALERT is God's way of saying, "I called, but someone else picked-up."

I want none of the things you value the most; wealth, power, status, and hot babes.

Well, technically, if you have the first three then the fourth one just seems to happen as a bonus.

OK, to be more serious.

I disagree with you a little Bob. Above, you're looking at gay marriage in the big terms of social mores and morals and civil rights.

While I agree with you that maybe some people want to get married to prove something or to make a statement to society, why trash marriage if two people simply want to make a commitment to each other (and I AM talking about marriage, not a "commitment ceremony")?

Hey, to be frank, I don't disagree with your assessment of marriage as a whole....One Man and One Woman or Gay/Lesbian. But some people DID grow up thinking that when you love someone, you want to make a commitment (legal, religious or social) to that person. And to deny that to those who want it is wrong.

In short, you telling people that they shouldn't want marriage isn't all that different from those who might say someone can't have marriage.

As far as having kids, people of all types should consider doing more to help the ones that are already here.

Kumbaya, Live Free or Die, To Each His/Her Own, As Long As You're Not Hurting Others, etc.