but that's not true. there are people here from all sorts of countries not in the eu. it's not all black and white and extremes. it will end up somewhere in the middle

this weekend is the next milestone with Austria. come Monday project europe could be breathing out again. italy as well

But Austria supports the EU?

Quote:

Don't interfere,' Austria's far-right presidential candidate tells Nigel Farage
Far-right candidate Nortbert Hofer has ruled out calling a referendum on Austria’s membership of the European Union, and called on Nigel Farage, the former Ukip leader, not to "interfere" in Austrian politics by calling for such a referendum.

“It is not something I want. We need to build a stronger union,” he said

Not so unique. The idea of European nationalism began to gain some support after World War II. Oswald Mosley actually coined the phrase "Europe a Nation" to describe a pan-European policy and it's cropped up a few times since.

Most neo-Fascists tend to be more tribal and ape German Fascist racial theories, which naturally sit uncomfortably with the idea of a European 'people', so tend to focus on the nation state or even narrower, more provincial, definitions of a 'people'.

Conversely the "Europe a Nation" school probably originates more from the Italian school of Fascism, which was more culturally focused.

Not so unique. The idea of European nationalism began to gain some support after World War II. Oswald Mosley actually coined the phrase "Europe a Nation" to describe a pan-European policy and it's cropped up a few times since.

Most neo-Fascists tend to be more tribal and ape German Fascist racial theories, which naturally sit uncomfortably with the idea of a European 'people', so tend to focus on the nation state or even narrower, more provincial, definitions of a 'people'.

Conversely the "Europe a Nation" school probably originates more from the Italian school of Fascism, which was more culturally focused.

It's not just the fascists who think this type of thing.

Isn't the whole "one flag and one national anthem thing" of the EU an attempt to make people believe the EU is a "single nation" entity.

Whether we like it or not, and what should absolutely be screamed from the rooftops, is that this is all caused by the rise of the far right globally. Sustained dumbing down of the populace. Propaganda against Jews, immigrants, etc. The sheer irony and hypocrisy of the head of a global brand preaching against globalisation. Post truth politics. Rejection of the legal and political establishment.

No, the rise of the far right is the symptom, not the cause.

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Isn't the whole "one flag and one national anthem thing" of the EU an attempt to make people believe the EU is a "single nation" entity.

Nationalism is not the same thing as Fascism; that's grossly simplistic.

Nationalism came to the fore during the enlightenment around the time that the divine right of kings started breaking down and pretty much every nationality has been 'invented' as a result. What is it to be British, after all, but various ethnic groups who ended up under one government because Elizabeth I was childless? Spain, a nationality based little more on a marriage? Italy was as much a geographic term as anything else. All these nations have had a nationality invented for them long before Fascism was around.

Quote:

Or are you implying the present EU is fascist?

It probably would have succeeded in selling the idea of a European nation far better if it were. Reality is that such is the taboo in Europe regarding Fascism and nationalism (Germans were pretty mooted about supporting their national sportspeople until after reunification) that the EU has avoided using nationalism as a binding force.

George W Bush probably did more to foster European nationalism than the EU ever did when he went to war in Iraq and ignored overwhelming European opinion.

People seem to forget that while we've seen an increase in support in far-right parties in Europe over the last few years we've also seen increase in support in far-left parties too; like Movimento 5 Stelle, Syriza, Podemos and Sinn Fein (who oddly is both a nationalist and socialist party, but don't consider themselves, well, nationalist socialists).

I'm scared of three things in this World... sharks, snakes and crocodiles. That's it! Nothing else phases me. People don't scare me, (and I'm sure I've said this before on EF), but accidentally walking into a Nazi funeral procession in Berchtesgaden back in Jan 1988, is in the my top 5 most intimidating situations. I'd just got off the bus from Salzburg at the side of the main church, and was looking at the SS graves along the boundary wall (remember being gobsmacked that these boys were 19-22yrs old). I managed to get three photos before it became very clear it was time to get the hell out of Dodge. When I got back to the UK, I hassled a few college lecturer friends to find out what the armbands worn in the procession related to, particularly the three legged swastika. One of the groups in that procession were FPO.

Since then, I followed the rise of the FPO (as best as I could pre-internet), particularly through the Jörg Haider years because I was spending a fair amount of time in Austria in '94 and '95.

Nationalism is not the same thing as Fascism; that's grossly simplistic.

Nationalism came to the fore during the enlightenment around the time that the divine right of kings started breaking down and pretty much every nationality has been 'invented' as a result. What is it to be British, after all, but various ethnic groups who ended up under one government because Elizabeth I was childless? Spain, a nationality based little more on a marriage? Italy was as much a geographic term as anything else. All these nations have had a nationality invented for them long before Fascism was around.

Nationalism can mean different things to different people and at different moments in time. Starting in Stuart times the UK fostered an "artificial" nationalism to tell the Scots and Irish (and Welsh) that they were all part of one family of nations. Later the same concept was projected onto the entire Commonwealth. The Spaniards did something similar with their concept of "Hispanidad" binding all Spanish-speaking nations of the world into a common concept. Tito tried it with Yugoslavia and succeeded at first but it fell apart later. China has been doing it for a long time and even countries like India are ultimately artificial constructs.

None of these countries can be accused of being overly fascist. I don't think you need to have imperial ambitions to be fascist or even to be overly nationalist to be a fascist. Mussolini in his younger years rejected the concept of ethinicity in nationalism and said everybody who agreed with him was welcome to join the fascist movement.

People seem to forget that while we've seen an increase in support in far-right parties in Europe over the last few years we've also seen increase in support in far-left parties too; like Movimento 5 Stelle, Syriza, Podemos and Sinn Fein (who oddly is both a nationalist and socialist party, but don't consider themselves, well, nationalist socialists).

It about the far, not the left or right.

Left and right are often just labels applied by those too lazy to take a closer look.

Syriza has more in common with the far right than many are comfortable with. Podemos is only considered left wing because it says so itself. Sinn Fein is a bit more complicated as it has gone through multiple developments and changes in its history.

Basque and Catalan nationalism is pretty much left wing on the other hand.