My Man U-loving friend has many hilariously choice words about Liverpool and its supporters. One is that when Scousers travel to away fixtures, they go with empty suitcases so that they can hit empty houses.

One way to deal with that kind of bad-faith opposition is to draw the person in, treat them as if they were operating in good faith, and draw them into a conversation about how they actually would solve the problem. If they have nothing, it shows.

What a week and what a day. We had a grass fire across the valley from us last night. It was pretty scary. The grass is so dry. I have such respect to the helicopter pilots that dip those huge buckets in the river and then right on the fire. These men are fearless and precise. The fire went to over 20 acres in 15 minutes but it was put out in the next 15 minutes. God bless our firemen!!!

Brush fires are most dangerous if you’re on a hillside, especially near the top.

Without wind, fires move relatively slowly downslope, but boy, they can take off like a rocket going uphill.

Glad there’s a river and helo pilots.

Here in SoCal, helos don’t do that sort of work (usually too windy), but CA has those “super-scooper” planes — can’t remember the model/number. They’re cargo-type planes that dip into the ocean and drop seawater on the fire. Amazing to see those in actions.

GOP get no push back for rewriting history, acting like what they said yesterday didn’t happen.

MSM act like this morning’s headlines (Obama in trouble because he hasn’t consulted the [vacationing] Congress) didn’t happen, but they’re more than willing to accept everything the [still vacationing] Congress throws out.

How it escapes them that President Obama is a man of his word, an honorable, thoughtful, intelligent man is beyond me (not really, as the Church Lady would say, could it be… Satan [substitute non-white here]).

Posted on last thread, but don’t forget the upcoming Charlie Foxtrot.

@blakehounshell@Wanderer19 Why does MSM ignore that Congress works less than 1/3 of year, yet it's apparent everything is Obama's fault?

Just finished posting my thank you letter at the White House comment page:

31 August 2013

Dear Mr President,

Two days ago I wrote you and the letter began:

“You likely are way ahead of me on this, but the situation in Syria seems to present a watershed moment for educating the American people and all of humanity in a profound way. Imagine if we had had Twitter & Youtube on Dec. 8, 1941 and could have begun exposing the mass gassings at Chelmno – the onset of The Holocaust.”

I then requested that you ask the American people:

“What would they have done on 9 Dec 1941 had they known of the mass gassing of the Jews?

What do they demand being done, now, to protect other Syrians from being gassed by their government?”

Today, you effectively did that and much more. You treated the Congress as a co-equal in matters of war and thereby forced them to take their Constitutional role more seriously than they have in decades.

You challenged humanity to share in our collective responsibility to halt and punish those who gas anyone let alone their own citizens.

You definitively rejected the AEI, NEOCON principle of American Exceptionalism, and closed the chapter on the ‘Imperial Presidency’ that characterized the GW Bush, Dick Cheney era – an era in which so much damage was done to America’s integrity and credibility.

And, you remained steadfast in supporting those Syrians seeking their inalienable rights, but you did not burden Americans with having to fight someone else’s civil war.

An amazing set of accomplishments, Mr President, all totally consistent with the words you spoke in Oslo, on 10 December, 2009.

If you haven’t read the book, ” Ten Letters” you must. It’s about the 10 letters that PBO reads everyday from ordinary Americans. It will lift your heart and reaffirm your knowledge that we did indeed elect an extraordinary, compassionate President. A MUST READ for everyone!

Bob, you are the model citizen that President Obama has been urging all of us to become! I hope some of your letters are able to go through the WH filters and President Obama gets a chance to read them.

A very good day, thanks so much for the excellent coverage, Ms Chips! I would have missed it completely otherwise. All I have to say is…. why can’t Congress be called back to actually do some work for a change?? They are so pathetic!

OK so Bob is my inspiration for writing letter to white house. and did you guys see on the last thread those two letters of congress and reps who wanted to be part of the decision making process over syria? Gotta write my reps. OK so back later after I get done writing.

And these people. like Grover Norquist, are taken seriously as pundits when it comes to discussions about public policy. You know, Chips, I am an oldie, but I can’t remember any President in my lifetime who has had to deal with so much crap, from really ignorant people from both the left and the right, as President Obama has.

Spot on nathkatun. But you must remember that the “boy” requires constant supervision and cable media has to enlist formers and ex’s and whoever else has a book, to ‘weigh-in’ and give some ‘insight’ to the current situation……My question is: What situation.? the President put the ball in the whiners court and they have to take their thumbs outta their mouths to catch it. End of story……….I must get my popcorn ready for the Sunday funnies.

Yardarm, you sir have a very strong tolerance level for BS! On account of my HBP, I gave up watching cable news and Sunday news shows. But I am absolutely elated today that President Obama checked mated all these mfs, who were poised to attack him (including media people, members of congress of both parties, and both right and left wing pundits) if he ordered military action without Congressional approval. Now they all have to chose between looking the other way despite all the horrific evidence of thousands people killed by Chemical weapons, or they have to support the President’s plan to punish the regime that inflicted this horror on innocent people, and especially children.

That’s why the popcorn. The arse’s have been at it all day. It’s been like watch a cat in a litter box that hasn’t been clean in a while. I’ve been ROFLMAO since PBO finished his presser. I had no idea there were soooo many “experts” on Presidential perogatives and basic civility.

Free entertainment. The cable news melt down was something to see. Tomorrow is gonna be a hoot as we watch the talking heads and “expert” try to justify their existence. All they’re doing is polluting the atmosphere.

Masterful is absolutely spot on Chips.. He truly never ceases to not only do the right thing but be brilliant while he’s doing it… and drink everybody’s milkshake :)

Yesterday I was concerned about going to Congress.. but since I don’t watch teevee I wasn’t aware of all the nonsense they’ve been spewing (I should know better already).. putting this in the hands of this Congress- demands that they get on record. Are they going to make it political and all about “Obama”.. or are they at last going to do the right thing and send a message to a true Tyrant who would GAS CHILDREN and Civilians?? I will absolutely be following members of Congress speeches and their votes.

Well done Mr. President, I have never been disappointed in this amazing Leader. Not.Once.

Sorry to be dense, but I’m not on Twitter, and sometimes just don’t understand the abbreviations and order of sentence. For instance, in Greg Sargent’s….what does MT mean? And exactly what is happening with Grover Norquist in that question…..I want to understand.

What Greg is doing is the equivalent of forwarding a tweet with a comment. Greg’s comment comes before Grover’s idiotic tweet. The MT – is ‘mention’ instead of RT which is ‘retweeting.’ He’s thereby indicating that he is not in any way advocating Grover’s imbecility, he’s calling him out for it. Hope that helps, Carolyn.

Hi Carolyn, ‘MT’ means ‘modified tweet’, which means Sargent had to shorten Norquist’s original tweet to fit in his own comment. Usually you see RT, which means the full tweet is being retweeted, but you use MT when you have to edit the original.

Norquist was suggesting Obamacare wasn’t passed by Congress, which, of course, it was!

This is where the mainstream media (MSM) are totally failing the country. The MSM focus on right wing opposition to ACA (a.k.a. ObamaCare), but they rarely inform the public that Obama Care is law, passed by Congress, signed by the President, and upheld, as Constitutional, by the U.S. Supreme Court. I’ve run into people who strongly believe that Obama Care is being imposed on them by the dictator Obama without Congressional approval and in violation of the U.S. Constitution. This is the crowd that Norquist is trying to inflame by his lying tweet.

nathkatun7 I scream your exact words every time I hear MSM have the nerve to say the reason why people don’t know the facts about ACA, is because President Obama doesn’t know how to explain/communicate to the everyday people. I have backed off (a lot) from MSM…I come here to get the 411…thank God for TOD. I haven’t said this in a long time, but this site (and everyone who comment) is amazing!!!

“I have backed off (a lot) from MSM…I come here to get the 411…thank God for TOD.”

I am totally with you! For the sake of my health, and the fact that I didn’t want to end up destroying my my TV, I completely stopped watching MSM t.v. I still read some papers, but I discontinued my subscription to our right wing paper, the SD Union.The MSM, and especially the electronic media, are primarily into right wing propaganda, hype, and sensationalism. This explains why so many people are uninformed and very confused about what Obama Care is all about.

Hubby and I weighing in on Al-jazeera America: He is home all day and I am not, but we are ‘adjusting’, shall we say, to the fact that they will give a subject a full half hour or more to discuss. They will show the ‘credentials’ of their guests so you know from whence they come. They give more credence to a lot of issues that we care about: environmental, energy independence, etc. the coverage of Syria is far more balanced and substantive. we find that we leave it on one of our TV’s a lot. Very few, if any, pundits in the Chris Matthews ilk. Actual experts discussing actual issues.

Hubby and I were both not home to monitor coverage of the MoW so I don’t know if they carried the President’s speech un-interrupted. Jury is still out, but we find we leave it on one of our TV’s a whole lot. We used to leave msnbc on, for lack of anything better. But we’re going to give them a chance to prove their muster – so far they have at least earned our interest.

Except for that idiot Ali Velshi. Seriously – couldn’t you get a better business show than his?

I guess it’s proof that we all lose it sometimes. Even Jefferson Obama. As I said before maybe he need to take a chill pill for awhile. The good side of me says chill Jefferson, the bad side says shut the hell up, we have had enough of your B.S. Love Anniebella.

Jefferson Obama is having a rough day not at all happy with the decision to not strike now. I feel bad for him as he’s been tweeting about the Syrian uprising since it began. I think the other aspect of it is is he is convinced Congress will vote it down. I have no idea where those morons will end up on this; wouldn’t be surprised either way. I do think though that IF they vote no and there is another chemical weapons attack by the Assad regime that both Cameron and POTUS will strike with or without congressional approval.

Does anyone know if POTUS can “require” Congress to convene? I tweeted that he cannot require them to return from vacation but Tom Nichols @TheWarRoom_Tom replied back “wish I had known that when I worked in Congress”. Really? POTUS has always said that he was “asking” Congress to return (during the debt ceiling and budget fiascos over the past few years).

“I think the other aspect of it is is he is convinced Congress will vote it down.”

Exactly Forus, that’s what’s making him freak out. I really do feel for him, but as I keep saying, I wish he’d take a deep breath – he should be directing his energies now to enlightening members of Congress who are clueless about what’s happening in Syria, and I’d guess that’s a whole bunch of them.

Yeah, a deep breath or a few of those beautiful martinis that he mixes up! And the other thing that he saw in this action was hope – that for the first time there was momentum and something might be done about Syria. Now with more delays the mind wearies of hearing about the dead and the political will fades with each passing day. Every time I think of the Syrian children I’m reminded of those 2nd graders in our own country that were slaughtered. I still find it unfathomable that nothing will be done in response to Newtown unless we get the House back in 2014. That might be true for Syria as well.

That’s exactly why I wouldn’t ever judge him on this Forus, as you said “with more delays the mind wearies of hearing about the dead and the political will fades with each passing day”. He’s heartbroken because he fears nothing will be done, so he’s completely melting down. Really feel for him, it’s a nightmare.

I don’t think this qualifies as an emergency… do you? I guess in my mind emergency would be if we were being attacked.. or in a financial crisis; etc. But maybe this does qualify. Either way it looks like Reid is calling the Senate in for next week, hopefully Boehner will follow suit.

I think it would qualify as an emergency – which presumably is the President’s call – but given the role of the GOP in the current congress is to be against everything the President does – Boehner could well tell his members to refuse to return on the President’s order. Rather than have that fight – the President will wait. He is so intelligent in what he does.

I wait to see how many Senators have pressing reasons to be absent next week.

Just an opinion – but I have reached the stage of being cynical about every last thing the gop members of congress do. It will surely be an interesting week with the Senate in session and the President in Russia.

Elections in my world next weekend become less important – except that the next 3 years will be an unmitigated disaster – with the less affluent in our country having to pay for the toys of the wealthy.

yes it would be helpful if we had more clarification. However, I believe had POTUS intended to call Congress back- he would have stated it in his speech, in fact he was quite clear, that military strike wise.. we could wait even a month to strike. We’ll see how important this really is to Congress.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Sorry Bob. I did not mean to repeat what you said when I posted my comment below. For some reason I did not read your comment be fore I posted mine. Both you and Jovie are correct that in “extraordinary” circumstances, the Constitution gives the President the power to both convene Congress and to decide when it can adjourn.

Forus50, to answer your question, yes the President does have Constitutional power to convene Congress in extraordinary circumstances. Under Article 2, Section 3, of the Constitution, the President “may, on extraordinary occasions convene both Houses (of Congress), or either of them, and in case of disagreement between them, with respect to the time of adjournment, he may adjourn them to such a time as he shall think proper.” Historically, very few Presidents have exercised this power of convening Congress because it requires “extraordinary occasions,” such as the U.S. being faced with an eminent attack from a foreign enemy, or in case massive internal threats to the survival of the country. Obviously, President Obama felt that while the Syrian situation was serious, it did not rise to the level of an”extraordinary occasion” that would have justified his immediate call for the Congress to convene.

Jovie, you probably are already aware of this; that there is much less chance of being suspended on Twitter if you create a profile. Others on Twitter assume the eggs are possibly trolls if they are antagonistic tweets.

What some of us from outside the UK do not understand – WHY IS CONGRESS ON VACATION? How can any democracy decide about military action when its elected representatives are on vacation. When the US media talks about that – LOUDLY and often – they may be relevant – otherwise pfffft

When I was reading about a teleconference with members of congress – I was thinking – the UK had a session of parliament – a debate on the floor of the commons – some things just CANNOT be done with a teleconference. I am pleased the President has made congress put in the hard yakka – but doubt that most of them will do anything other than walk around in circles wondering where they are.

I find the President’s decision breathtakingly awesome – not only will congress have to do something – they will also have to fund something. Those who want intervention will have to accept their priorities in regard to deficits.

I agree 99ts, vote and fund. I would like to see international response to enforce no chemical weapon warfare…it’s sinister and gives no-body a fighting chance of survival when youre exposed. I trust President Obama and I’m glad that he is calling on Congress for an open debate and decision….true leadership. He will also be able to discuss this openly at the G20 and countries who have been cowering and staying silent about this have the chance to speak (or not to speak) openly….Amazing wisdom and foresight. A great man.

Hi Berny – I couldn’t agree more about PBO. I have problems with people dying to stop people dying – rather like the death penalty – lawful killing – BUT I think I trust PBO more than any other world leader since forever. The G20 will be an event this year. I read Rudd wanted to be there – mainly to benefit self I would think.

On the Oz front – I’m seeing an election between sad and sadder. The only outcome I could agree with would be a Labor win & Rudd losing his seat – I don’t think the former is anyway possible & the latter is rather doubtful as well. The Brisbane newspaper seems to be a reprint of the Sydney Telegraph – ranted against Julia for months to make Rudd think he had a chance – then brought him down very quickly.

“As Obama walked away from the podium, a reporter asked what he would do if Congress voted down a resolution. He said nothing, but the answer seems pretty clear. If Congress votes no, he won’t launch an attack. The legislators will come to realize this, and will see that this is not a parlor game, and I think that’s why they’ll vote in favor.

There will be lessons noted from Iraq, and I suspect the authorization will impose limits on the duration and perhaps the scope of military action. Some will complain that these limits constrain the president, but in fact they free him. Who knows? Maybe we will learn—contrary to the experience of the past decade—that a democracy can go to war in a full and open vote without deceit.”

Well, that’s the lesson plan President Obama delivered today to not just Congress and Americans but to the entire world.

I compare PBO to Lincoln in my mind often. And what’s amazing is that in the midst of civil war, we had an election. Two, in fact, 1862 and 1864. A democracy MUST engage its military in a democratic way, or some day it may find it’s no longer a democracy.

Excellent comment, LL! Lincoln had every reason to invoke a state of emergency to suspend those elections. The fact that he didn’t laid a very a strong foundation for our country’s democracy and respect for the Constitution.

I watched this again starting at minute 3:00 where he is not unhappy in the moment of calling Boehner’s bluff. John Boy always gets beat at his own game.

But having made my decision as Commander-in-Chief based on what I am convinced is our national security interests, I’m also mindful that I’m the President of the world’s oldest constitutional democracy. I’ve long believed that our power is rooted not just in our military might, but in our example as a government of the people, by the people, and for the people. And that’s why I’ve made a second decision: I will seek authorization for the use of force from the American people’s representatives in Congress.

Those Presidents who used force without seeking authorization from congress had to call their wars – interventions – or whatever. As a constitutional scholar, PBO knows well what needs to be done. Camerson accepted the vote of the commons and PBO will accept what congress decides – how many other Leaders believe that this is what democracy is all about.

Well said 99ts! As much as I believe that Syria violated International law by unleashing Chemical weapons and needed to be severely held accountable, the fact of the matter is that the U.K. and the U.S. are democracies. The power to make war is entrusted with the people’s representatives (Parliament and Congress). It’s true that in the past Presidents of the U.S. have authorized military actions in situations they deemed to be emergencies, or with the tacit approval of Congress. In this situation, however, the overwhelming members of Congress, of both parties, were demanding that the President get authorization from Congress before embarking on any military action in Syria. I am glad that the President agreed thereby demonstrating his commitment to Democracy and the Constitution. Regardless of what the Congress does, I am personally very proud of President Obama for clearly demonstrating his deep respect for Democracy.

I don’t believe the constitution, or the situation had anything to do with members of Congress demanding authorization – I truly believe they wanted the President to act without their authority – so they could, yet again, use their BFF, the media, to attack him.

They forgot, however, that PBO is a constitutional lawyer, who was elected to end wars – not wage them. He is the first President, in a very long time, who knows in detail the limit and expanse of his powers.

“I don’t believe the constitution, or the situation had anything to do with members of Congress demanding authorization – I truly believe they wanted the President to act without their authority – so they could, yet again, use their BFF, the media, to attack him.”

Believe me I agree with you entirely about their political motivation. At the same time they were able to conveniently use the Constitutional mandate that it’s Congress which has the authority to declare war. I am quite sure if President Obama were white there would be no such a fuss from either the Republicans or the Democrats. I don’t remember Democrats or Republicans writing a letter to President Clinton about Kosovo, or Bosnia, or Haiti. I also don’t recall Democrats writing a letter to Reagan about Grenada or Lebanon, or George H.W. Bush about Panama.

Gosh but it is complicated! I read what I wrote – but I truly don’t know enough about Syria, the middle east, who did what when & why to have any opinion. I so agree with your conclusion – that PBO has a great respect for democracy and the rule of law. I’m not so sure that much of the congress understand him at all.

Most of us have been bothered by annoying calls from telemarketers, but one man in the U.K. got so fed up, he came up with a new plan. Lee Beaumont was called nearly every day with sales pitches for solar panels and insurance. So, to make the most of the annoyance, he signed up for the equivalent of a 900 number here in the U.S. So now, each time a bank, gas company, or other business calls to make a sale, Mr. Beaumont makes money off of them. Unsurprisingly, the telemarketers have virtually stopped calling.

The decision to seek authorization from Congress was the president’s alone, a step that none of the four congressional leaders had asked for and none of his national security advisers had recommended, according to two administration officials familiar with the discussions. The officials spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the president’s thinking.

Obama’s shift followed two developments earlier in the week: an assurance by Army General Martin Dempsey, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, that a strike was not time-sensitive, and U.K. Prime Minister David Cameron’s decision to seek a vote in Parliament, which he lost…

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I posted this link before,but from a legal blog — so it is not official — in the UK re Cameron being able to take action even if Parliament said no. Cites the UN dysfunction and international law. These are new times. I don’t know what the President’s decision will be but I do know he is forging a modern foreign policy that is dealing with this complex world.

“according to two administration officials familiar with the discussions”

And do we have any names – NO – do we more likely have the media covering its … – why would these “officials” be talking to news reporters. I HATE that the MSM makes stuff up. They announce who was at a meeting – based on a picture – they use this to try and bypass the fact that ALL the media speculation was WRONG.

“I get it. As much as you all like to pretend that you are flies in the President’s situation room, the best you can do is a cheap knock-off. But just because your reporting about the drum beats and imminent missile strikes fell apart, that’s no reason to bash the president. Just because you want to get ahead of yourself and get things utterly, nonsensically, comically wrong after being consistently told by the White House the truth (that the president had not yet made a decision) doesn’t mean that the president and his administration has to answer for your loss of credibility. Just because you all suck at your job (journalism), doesn’t mean the president is required to suck at his (governing).

The fact is that all this frantic freakout is being caused by two things: they cannot believe that the president needs to be taken at his word when he says he hasn’t made a decision on something, and secondly, they find the idea of Constitutional government completely foreign. We even heard how this is a bad idea because presidents since Reagan have used the military to launch strikes without Congressional approval (because, you know, nothing went wrong during Reagan’s use of the military), even though this president made the judgment that he could as well and decided to put the Congress on the record anyway, to ensure that we stand together on a momentous decision like this.”

Exactly – they want to be the news and make the news – they think they have Presidential authority – they think they know it all – How often does the media have to be SO WRONG before they start reporting the news rather than repeating GOP talking points.

This is why I scoff at the “Obama surprises top aides” from Bloomberg – the only people surprised were the press – and those who believed them. I cannot see why Jeff Gauvin got so upset – he of all folks should know the President does not listen to the press to make his decisions.