very cool! the dust shroud looks like it can benefit from a wider larger shoot. by the looks of it right now it appears as tho dust just flies right past it.

Logged

When youre feeling depressed just treat yourself to a systainer even if its a mini systainer its ok.

IG: tee212

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If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

As Far as what is considered a "pro" or "industrial" tool and what isn't it's somerimes hard to judge. When a lot of the imported European power tool brands started becoming more popular in rhe USA one of the US woodworking magazines did an article on some of the brands. I remember thr article mentioned Fein and Lamello as being listed as "Industrially" rated whereas Festool and Metabo supposedly weren't. I don't know why those brands where considered Industrially rated.

Fein built safety electronics into most of the tools at the time so I figured this might have had something to do with it. Metabo manufactures/manufactured some lighter built tools that seem more geared towards non professional rather than professional use, similar to the green Bosch tools, although I'm sure some professionals also use them.

Black and Decker used to make heavy duty industrial tools under there own name up until maybe ten or fifteen years ago. Many of the same models are still manufactured by them under the Dewalt brand.

When I started out in woodworking I thought of Makita as a slightly cheaper off brand, yet at the same time Makita was manufacturing heavy all metal tools for industrial use, as well as other tools aimed at a similar market to Mafell. Even now, Makita manufacyures more robust tools for professional use, many of which are made in Japan, europe, or possibly the USA, along with lower cost tools for Home Depot that tend to be made in China, and then they have their Maktec line of tools that I think are supposed to compete with Harbor Freight.

If you don't like Signatures, just go to Look and Layout and tick No Signatures.

“The test of the machine is the satisfaction it gives you. There isn't any other test. If the machine produces tranquility it's right. If it disturbs you it's wrong until either the machine or your mind is changed.” ― Robert M. Pirsig, Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry Into Values

Metabo isn't really thought of as pro gear in The Netherlands and when I need a tool it certainly isn't a brand that I would consider. For some reason it has a very distinct DIY image. This saw however looks very nice indeed.

That's your opinion and your entitled to it. My opinion which i'm also entitled to is from my own experience. And I'd have to say that Metabo are in the same league as Makita and Dewalt, which makes them very popular with trade pros. I used to use Metabo tools 10 - 15 years ago in the UK and they were very highly thought of tools within the carpentry business, they just didn't have the same range of cordless tools as Makita back then, things have changed now and Metabo have made massive in roads down here in Australia especially with their cordless range. Due to Festools ever increasing prices and their recent decision to alienate Australian customers, we started to look for alterniteves and now evaluate Metabo's equivalent tools and stand alone tools before any new purchase is made. In the last year I have made five new Metabo purchases and am pleased with each one especially their cordless 216 mitre saw, which now gets as much use or more than the Kapex due to it's portability.

Metabo are very highly respected in the metal finishing industry and have a growing reputation in timber construction.

One thing that hasn't served them well is the green tool body that confuses a lot of people when they think of green Bosch.

That SCMS is the evolution of their current crop of budget SCMS's that seem to mostly come out of China. A lot of the design detail is evident in the little (and absolutely excellent) cordless Metabo SCMS I acquired late last year.

That new fence mechanism looks quite nice - it's yet to be determined if it is highly accurate .. though it certainly looks promising.

The video showed the with/without DC - it won't be the KAPEX grade DC the dual vac port higher end Metabo SCMS's offer, but I still think it'll be pretty good.

Metabo is leading cordless too battery tech with their LIHD development and the "merge" with Hitachi could be the beginning of some very interesting disruption in the power tool industry.

The bi-fold fence to me seems like an ok idea if you're doing alot of furniture/joinery perhaps. You wouldn't want to cut anything longer than 2' unsupported like that. Also seems like a good way to complicate having an accurate tool.

It does look quite gimicky/diy oriented, with the crapload of plastic knobs.

Still, I'd like to try one. Seems like a decent design, I've never handled a metabo anything so I have no idea what they're all about.

I have my doubts about the long term performance of the adjustable fence though. When you have a lot of moving parts they tend to get wobbly and imprecise after a while. You'd need a very robust mechanism to counter that.

I've seen how it works on the Festool Symmetric saw, which is a far less complicated saw than this Metabo. And Festool only markets it as a plinth saw, not a general saw for the more precise and complicated joinery jobs.

What line of work are you in? Metabo are professional power tools by any measure, ergo if they're not considered pro quality in your line of work, your line of work must not require professional power tools!

I'm a joiner and I've worked on shipyards for the past 16 years. I work with wood and power tools every single day. Pro enough for you?

I wasn't actually questioning your profession, it was a thinly veiled dig at the fact you're opinion of Metabo is clearly erroneous. But you obviously missed that.

I have in my tool collection Festool, Makita, Hitachi, Dewalt, Milwaukee, AEG, Metabo, Bosch, Mafell, Fein and more. Metabo is absolutely far nearer the top in terms of quality than the bottom.

It isn't a Kapex copy I remember seeing a cheapo saw way back before the Kapex that had front sliders. Symetric fence, yes I reckon it's a Festool copy. As for being pro or not it's difficult to tell. Metabo used to be 100% pro but started to make cheaper Chinese stuff a few years back so could be either. It would be nice to see a different colour approach like Bosch. Anyone found any prices?

No exact prices yet, but it will be between €600-800.Will be available from June 2016.

BTW.The Symmetric is not a Festool design.When TTS took over the handtools from HolzHer in 2000 they also got the Symmetric 2141.The design has been unchanged since then and is probably more then 30 years old now.

The bi-fold fence to me seems like an ok idea if you're doing alot of furniture/joinery perhaps. You wouldn't want to cut anything longer than 2' unsupported like that. Also seems like a good way to complicate having an accurate tool.

It does look quite gimicky/diy oriented, with the crapload of plastic knobs.

Still, I'd like to try one. Seems like a decent design, I've never handled a metabo anything so I have no idea what they're all about.

Agreed. The more complicated the mechanisms and the more moving parts something has the greater the chance for something to be off or go out tolerance over time. Simplicity is something that I look for in tools. Simple designs tend to be more accurate and durable over time. For what it's worth the "relative complexity" of the Kapex was one of the reasons that Festool cited as the reason for a higher than average repair rate.

The angle bisecting fences appear like a neat idea at first glance but when you figure that they are going to need to be dead parallel to each other and square to the blade for most applications the extra layers of complexity are working against the tool being or remaining accurate and precise.

No exact prices yet, but it will be between €600-800.Will be available from June 2016.

BTW.The Symmetric is not a Festool design.When TTS took over the handtools from HolzHer in 2000 they also got the Symmetric 2141.The design has been unchanged since then and is probably more then 30 years old now.

....a few minor changes to the base design but basically the same machine. The 850 also came in from them as wellrgPhil

That fancy fence looks great right upto the point when you are feeding a decent length of wood into it.

If you were dealing with long timber you'd use the SCMS in the "traditional manner". You'd engage the symmetrical fence if you were cutting pieces that were more reasonable (say picture frame length) in size ... regardless of any promos that show otherwise, which is probably more to showcase the feature.

To properly challenge the KAPEX, Metabo would also need to copy the UG cart and extensions. To this day I'm still amazed that somebody hasn't developed something "universal" like the UG setup.

Richard- it's not released yet, people are saying around June. My Germans non existant so I have no clue if that's true. When it is released there's are a few places you couple import it from in Germany or the UK. Shoot me a pm of you want contacts.

Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713 Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly! Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot ! Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?No! Thank you!I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713 HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!NOT A SINGLE!And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713 Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly! Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot ! Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?No! Thank you!I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713 HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!NOT A SINGLE!And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw

Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713 Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly! Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot ! Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?No! Thank you!I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713 HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!NOT A SINGLE!And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw

Drop saw,fixed saw,...you name it.

Its very easy.

You right,10" is not enough to cut 250mm (10" ?) at once.So,I do it on both sides.Its simple,its easy and very precise !You didn't know it?

In a realistic application though what're you cutting that's thicker than a 2x4 but thinner than a 4x4? 12/4 boards? I can't really think of any trim that's thicker than 70mm but I don't see being able to cut baseboards standing up and using the sym fence unless it's the short cheap stuff from the box stores.

Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713 Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly! Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot ! Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?No! Thank you!I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713 HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!NOT A SINGLE!And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw

A fixed miter saw is different than a scms without a doubt. If you have to make compound cuts the scms will be the better choice based on the approach angle of the blade. When making a compound cut on a fixed saw the blade will have a much greater tendency to deflect regardless of the blade that's on the saw. I have 2 different sliding saws of different sizes to handle situations where the extra cross cut capacity is needed.

For most applications on the trimout of a typical home a fixed miter saw will handle just about every cut I will need to make. The typical base on a nicer package will be between 5 1/4" and 6 1/2". Larger is common but is usually a built up and any of the components will be in the capacity of a fixed saw in position. Casing is usually somewhere between 3 1/2" and 4 1/2". Crown is between 4 1/4" and 6 1/2" which are easily cut in position on a fixed saw. I run a 12" DW716. It has higher clearances than any other saw on the market and most of the common trim components can be easily cut in position. It is a very basic saw. It takes very tight set up tolerances and holds them well. With a standard kerf, industrial, task specific blade deflection isn't an issue If I am not responsible for the stairs and/or the closet packages then it's the only saw I need to trim out a home. I will often bring out the DW713 saw that was mentioned earlier and hand carry it around for the occasional recut as I install. The vertical capacities are too small to handle what I typically run but the cross cut is enough to knock a 1/16" of the butt end of crown or base. Occasionally I need to cut taller one piece mouldings and need the cross cut capacity of a scms but it is more exception than the rule.

A fixed saw is more accurate than a scms in applications where either can be used because it has fewer moving parts and fewer places where flex or machining tolerances can affect the cut. They are easier to tune up and easier to keep accurate because they have fewer moving parts. When I am choosing tools I tend to look for the simplest possible options. Electronics controlling power, soft start, lasers, variable speed, micro bevel adjustment, and movable fences will turn me off a particular saw. The only bells or whistles on any of my saws are a light and a detent override. The simplicity makes the tool more durable. I'm sure others will have different needs and the things that I see as liabilities will be the things that make the tool indispensable to them. There's no perfect saw for everyone.

Guys! I wanna say,the best saw is "fixed" saw,like it or don't like it doesn't mater.I recently purchased Dewalt 10" DW713 Miter Saw,and its absolutely almost perfectly! Just minor adjustments and its perfectly accurate!And believe or not,its for $219.00 !!! from Home Depot ! Paying $1450 +/- fro Kapex,or whatever...Metabo or some other expensive stuff....looks like crazy O V E R P R I C E D !!!$1,450 FOR WHAT !!!For a TONNE .... design mistake and failure ?!?No! Thank you!I better stay with my trusty DeWALT !!!For so many years (just sold my DW713 for my friend,because he really need it and not going to spend a lot of money) my DW713 HAS NEVER HAVE ANY PROBLEMS !!!NOT A SINGLE!And its from 2002, 14 years and still working,without any single problems!!!

So you're talking about a drop saw. They're different - very different. I can comprehend that you have a strong opinion on this, but please don't confuse the issue. In your context I would paraphrase that you think sliding compound mitre saws are more complicated and for your needs a drop saw does the trick.

If I'm wrong, tell me how you mitre cut a compound angle on a 250mm board with your drop saw

A fixed saw is more accurate than a scms in applications where either can be used because it has fewer moving parts and fewer places where flex or machining tolerances can affect the cut. They are easier to tune up and easier to keep accurate because they have fewer moving parts. When I am choosing tools I tend to look for the simplest possible options. Electronics controlling power, soft start, lasers, variable speed, micro bevel adjustment, and movable fences will turn me off a particular saw.

In a realistic application though what're you cutting that's thicker than a 2x4 but thinner than a 4x4? 12/4 boards? I can't really think of any trim that's thicker than 70mm but I don't see being able to cut baseboards standing up and using the sym fence unless it's the short cheap stuff from the box stores.

My Hitachi 10" cuts 100mm x 295mm and compounds 60 x 220. So I can (and do) cut posts, one piece lintels, compound angles on framing, right bevel more than 25mm (that metabo could only do 22mm).

Don't get me wrong, I think it looks like a nice saw, but I just think its retarded that manufactures limit 10" saws like this when they don't need to. A lot of people only have one saw, certain Makita's, Hitachi's and Dewalt's are so popular because you can almost do everything with the one saw