I would love to get a second passport, even if it's another EU one, simply to disassociate myself from my native country which is going in a direction that I simply feel very uncomfortable with. If dual citizenship wouldn't be allowed I'd have no issue whatsoever to give up my Belgian passport.

In a way this topic is interesting, but I'm realistic enough that passports aren't given away for no reasons. I think the opening poster seems things a bit too simplistic. Also, even if I had a million euro on the bank, the last thing I'd spend it on is some passport of a country I have no interest in residing in. The passports I'd be interested in are only the ones of the countries where I hope to stay long term. And none of those governments will just issue for a payment.

Guess I'm stuck with the Belgian passport for now, hopefully the country won't fall apart because the one worse thing would be a Flemish passport.

By the way, if the Flemish make their own country, what would it be called? (Phlegmland? )

I'd love to accept a Spanish one However, unless you are from a former Spanish colony (they have more flexible rules to get naturalised) it takes 10 years of residency before you can become a Spanish citizen. By that time Belgium may have long fallen apart. Maybe I can just become stateless if the Flemish passport would be the only other option, with some luck Spain may give a passport based on political asylum

__________________If I show you the truth, will you show me the beauty? If I show you the pain, will you show me the purity? If I show you the scars, will you show me yours?
(The God Machine)

By the way, if the Flemish make their own country, what would it be called? (Phlegmland? )

Vlaanderen. Dutch for Flanders.

The idea alone of a "Republic of Flanders" makes me unsettled Flemish politics are dominated by xenophobic, racist and conservative right wing and far right parties; FACT. I do not wish to be associated with such a state by any means, because IF Belgium would split, it would be those right wing parties that would be in charge (since they are the ones pushing for sovereignity)

__________________If I show you the truth, will you show me the beauty? If I show you the pain, will you show me the purity? If I show you the scars, will you show me yours?
(The God Machine)

Sealand- Sealand is built on a WWII gun platform. It is a sovereign country in the way that every other sovereign country became sovereign. Namely, it has been recognized by Britain (Which filed a lawsuit against them, not realizing that doing so was granting recognition). Further it has been invaded, and had said invasion repelled. This makes it as legitimate as the USA or India. The UN may not recognize it, but I don't recognize the UN.

Secondly, I have crossed an international border with a caucasian on a somali passport. He didn't have any problems. Somalia is a real country, there are hundreds of thousands of somalis in the world, and they use passports just like everyone else. Somalia has a tribal system of government (literally a kitarchy) and thus, by definition, is the opposite of "lawless". The US and the UK are illegally committing acts of violence there, and of course spreading propaganda about the country, but this does not change the fact that they have had an essentially continuous government for several centuries. (With the exception of a period of despotic rule at after the british pulled out sloppily.)

There are serveral situations where you can get citizenship without undue burden. For instance, St. Kitts & Nevis has an economic citizenship program. You need to invest in property there, but you get to keep the property, it is your property. After a couple years you can become a citizen. You don't even have to live there during the waiting period. Other countries require you to deposit money into a bank and after some period of time you can get the money back and get citizenship. Canada is one such country. The amount of money is pretty large, but you do get it back, so the effective cost of canadian citizenship is the lost interest on that money.

I'd be very interested in a sincere discussion of various programs and their pros and cons. I know of a couple others that I'm considering that I can talk about once I've done more investigation. There are a lot of fly-by-nite businesses out there and scam artists and I think that this forum should or could be a good place to discuss the topic seriously.

Right now, it looks like Singapore and Belgium are the two best bets. For belgium you just need to legally reside there for 3 years. They have an entrepreneur program for getting the residency permit, but unfortunately the link on the government website to the relevant page was broken for me.

Singapore has one where if you start a business with turnover over 100k you can get citizenship in a reasonable period (either 3 or 5 years). I've heard it highly recommended as a fairly straightforward process- that is to say, if you meet the requirements you get citizenship.

I wonder if any of the other carribbean countries offer good programs? Some of them, like the Cayman islands might be good places for businesses to be located.

I've heard good things about equador or one of the others in there that sounds something like that. Need to do more research, obviously.

There are countries that want citizens and they generally make it possible to get citizenship.

Oh, one I forgot-- The chilean government is investing up to $40,000 (or was it $400k?) in businesses based on business plans, along with the investment you get a work visa... you just have to start a business in chile, and eventually you can apply for citizenship. This is the opposite of buying a passport, and Chile is a very legitimate, strong country. You don't need to be a euro millionaire-- they'll give you money. You do need to be qualified and have a business plan, and I'm sure there are many forms to fill out, etc.

So, it is most definitely not the case that any passport you can "buy" is not worth having. There are more countries with programs that will give citizenship within 3-5 years than I've had time to research.

Which has all of the effect of smacking an elephant with a feather, wouldn't you agree?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter

I have crossed an international border with a caucasian on a somali passport. He didn't have any problems.

Which border please? Did this "caucasian" obtain a visa in advance?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter

There are serveral situations where you can get citizenship without undue burden. For instance, St. Kitts & Nevis has an economic citizenship program. You need to invest in property there, but you get to keep the property, it is your property.

The total financial cost of economic citizenship for a single person in St. Kitts is therefore approx US$400,000. An application requires a non-refundable cash payment of US$35,000 for a single applicant plus US$15,000 for each dependent, plus a US$2,000 fee for a background check on any person included in the application, who is over 18 years of age. Enough said on that issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter

Other countries require you to deposit money into a bank and after some period of time you can get the money back and get citizenship. Canada is one such country. The amount of money is pretty large, but you do get it back, so the effective cost of canadian citizenship is the lost interest on that money.

Please cite your source for this, because I believe this is completely FALSE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter

there are a lot of fly-by-nite businesses out there

THAT I agree with.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter

Oh, one I forgot-- The chilean government is investing up to $40,000 (or was it $400k?) in businesses based on business plans, along with the investment you get a work visa... you just have to start a business in chile, and eventually you can apply for citizenship. This is the opposite of buying a passport, and Chile is a very legitimate, strong country. You don't need to be a euro millionaire-- they'll give you money.

Again, cite a source, because I believe this to be absolutely FALSE information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dieter

So, it is most definitely not the case that any passport you can "buy" is not worth having. There are more countries with programs that will give citizenship within 3-5 years than I've had time to research.

BUY ≠ RESIDENCY and no one other than you has equated the two. MANY countries will give citizenship with five years permanent residence INCLUDING THE UNITED STATES. But, first of all, permanent residence is harder to get than citizenship in most cases and secondly, that is not the topic; it was: "Easiest passports to get? (without residency or heritage requirements)" Until I see some actual documentation, I still say that there are none worth having that will cost you less than US$100k.

I'm sure that will leave a big impression on any custom controller when he is stopping you when trying to cross the border with a Sealand passport I am not a huge fan of the UN but it is the closest we have to a world order. You may be opposed to their policies, but this will not stop the reality from going on: if you try to cross a border with an invalid passport of a made-up country or unrecognised state, you will not enter the country even if you declare that you don't care about the UN. As long as the custom controller cares, you won't get in.

Look, I don't like my native country, I would love to change citizenship. But sometimes it's better to just accept the situation as it is, rather than trying to believe in fairytales that you can just change citizenship without making any effords on it. A three year residency or a marriage with a foreign person will be the easiest ways towards obtaining a new passport, any country with easier rules (exceptions such as family reunions, heritage or asylum aside) will be a dodgy case.

__________________If I show you the truth, will you show me the beauty? If I show you the pain, will you show me the purity? If I show you the scars, will you show me yours?
(The God Machine)

I'll bet you 100 of any trading currency you like (no Sealand dollars please) that even the King, President, Prince Regent, General, Dictator, Chancellor, Prime Minister, or whatever the h@ll he calls himself uses his British passport for 100% of his foreign travel, including to Britain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gerrit

(exceptions such as family reunions, heritage or asylum aside)

And very large amounts of cash.

Thaksin Shinawatra, the former president of Thailand turned outlaw has Montenegro citizenship, among others. I'm not saying it can't be bought. I'm just saying that it can't be bought by any of our dear readers.

Originally Posted by Dieter
Oh, one I forgot-- The chilean government is investing up to $40,000 (or was it $400k?) in businesses based on business plans, along with the investment you get a work visa... you just have to start a business in chile, and eventually you can apply for citizenship. This is the opposite of buying a passport, and Chile is a very legitimate, strong country. You don't need to be a euro millionaire-- they'll give you money.

Quote: MoTo77
Please cite your source for this, because I believe this is completely FALSE.
---------------------------------------------------------

Here's the details on the program in Chile for entrepreneurs, and it is very real:

I'll bet you 100 of any trading currency you like (no Sealand dollars please) that even the King, President, Prince Regent, General, Dictator, Chancellor, Prime Minister, or whatever the h@ll he calls himself uses his British passport for 100% of his foreign travel, including to Britain.

I believe the address of the Sealand government (with 5 inhabitants on the oil rink they must all be in that government I suppose) is officially in England. So he has a self-declared country with no postal address I wonder how the guy gets food on his dish (except fish), Tesco didn't open a branch on the oil rink and there's no Burger King neither.

On a serious note, marriage can sometimes get you citizenship in no time. I know it's like that in Israel, because when applying for jobs there and admitting I am not jewish, one company literally replied I was welcome to re-apply once I found an Israeli wife because I'd be entitled to Israeli citizenship under the Law of Return then. At least so they said.

In my native Belgium idem dito. One of our most notorious politicians got his Belgian passport on the spot due to marriage with a Belgian lady (he was originally from Lebanon) and was able to keep his Belgian ID even when, oh how surprising, they divorced 6 months later. The guy then set up a very radical political party and was allowed to even get away with that, despite the fact that everyone could see from miles ahead he got his citizenship only through a fake marriage. He after several years returned to Lebanon to join Hezbollah (true story) but said he'd keep his dual citizenship just in case he'd ever need his Belgian passport. And our government, surprise surprise, did nothing against it

No country will just throw away passports, but if one country comes close, it must be Belgium!

That said (and I am serious now) I still try to find a loophole in Israeli law allowing me to get residency there without needing to get sponsored by a company (which de facto rarely happens because non-jews cost them money whereas jews can get the passport and don't need any expensive working permits). Since it seems an Israeli girlfriend is the only loophole existing and since I happen to have a soft spot for Middle Eastern women, I am prepared to receive applications. If anyone knows a nice Israeli young lady (aged 21 - 30) who is after an exotic romance with a European man, PM me

__________________If I show you the truth, will you show me the beauty? If I show you the pain, will you show me the purity? If I show you the scars, will you show me yours?
(The God Machine)

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