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Last edited Mon Nov 26, 2012, 09:42 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
The American economy is significantly based in the production of war machinery. War machinery has almost no value outside of wartime. Another resource subtracted from the system are young people, who, would otherwise be working at the factory producing washing machines or table saws or clothing if they weren't in Germany providing security over any resurgence in Nazism.

America followed the war weapons industry the way China followed the make everything else industry. Look who won. We are now arguing over whether class sizes should be increased, social security should be decreased, and all because America decided that making tanks and warships and jets were the answer to everything.

At the best engineering schools, military recruiters are snatching up the best and brightest to go design another weapon or drone. These same minds are sequestered and will not improve the competitiveness of America globally or even domestically because what they're producing is worthless.

So let's not pretend that the fiscal cliff has nothing to do with the stolen resources that make up the American Military Industrial Complex. All other theft is minor by comparison. The Military also has the status of being it's own country. It has it's own land, court system, and even hospitals and shopping centers.

In order to coddle the citizens into accepting this type of system that jeopardizes their lives, is through propaganda. Americans have been convinced that without this expansive military, we are doomed to be attacked by our enemies. So, we again can thank the military for creating a populace of paranoid freaks.

So let's continue the arguments over social security, medicare, infrastructure, food stamps, et al. The 800 pounder will continue to be the 800 pounder.

The military is just another government department, albeit one that depends on the willingness of citizens who enlist to make the ultimate sacrifice, if necessary. They don't decide how much money they get in their budget, Congress does. The leadership answers to the President, in a command sense.

A case can be made about the dangers of "military industrial complex" as identified back in the 50s by Eisenhower, but it is not fair to lump the average service member with the politics behind it. The service members do that-serve their country.

Just to make it clear, for those who would read more into my first paragraph than is written-I am not denigrating the service when I call it "just another government department". I am looking at it in a management sense, I'm not making a judgement about it's worthiness or morality.

A case can be made about the dangers of "military industrial complex" as identified back in the 50s by Eisenhower,

Not if you read the entire speech and understand the context of the use of that expression. What Ike was referring to was MICs like Hitler's or Stalin's, not the US where the military is controlled by the civilian government.

Not if you read the entire speech and understand the context of the use of that expression. What Ike was referring to was MICs like Hitler's or Stalin's, not the US where the military is controlled by the civilian government.

I disagree. I believe he was talking about the United States:

Until the latest of our world conflicts, the United States had no armaments industry. American makers of plowshares could, with time and as required, make swords as well. But now we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense; we have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry of vast proportions. Added to this, three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. We annually spend on military security more than the net income of all United States corporations.

This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Arroyo, would you argue that we have gone over the point that he was warning about?

Way over, as I understand it. Defense touches just about every congressional district in the nation; certainly every state. Here, in Fort Worth, the defense industry can be seen as damn near vital to our local economic health. Any mentions of cuts, either real or just in projected growth, to defense will bring a great deal of political criticism and can only be articulated by those in the safest of districts.

Way over, as I understand it. Defense touches just about every congressional district in the nation; certainly every state. Here, in Fort Worth, the defense industry can be seen as damn near vital to our local economic health. Any mentions of cuts, either real or just in projected growth, to defense will bring a great deal of political criticism and can only be articulated by those in the safest of districts.

All well and good AD but that is NOT the point of the DUmmie thread. Those morons think we need to disband the military and issue everyone a
unicorn that farts rainbows. You do realize that, right????