Hope it's ok to post this link. These folks have done a lot of research and pose some very reasonable questions about and objections to the recent implementation of fees for camping in the Backcountry. There have been many that have been misinformed and misled, but this site present facts that have been seriously researched, facts that are based upon evidence available to back them. Please check out the video link on the main page...

PS: Greetings to the staff at LRO, hoping to get up your way in the next month or so for a visit...been far too long since my last visit a couple of years ago.

NDuncan

09-09-2013 01:50 PM

Thanks for bringing this up again. Most of the members on the forum that have been active for the past year + are pretty aware of the SFW and many are involved in this fight. But its been a while since this issue has been brought up and its good for it to brought back to the forefront from time to time.

Hoosier

09-09-2013 02:49 PM

Video was a bit ridiculous

Thought the references to the Ranger with a brand new gun pounding on the tent at 745 demanding paperwork was a bit over the top. That doesn't do anything to help the cause. Those guys have a hard enough job (though a great job) as it is, and that reference did nothing to promote the debate and only makes me roll my eyes. I try to remain objective about the whole issue, and I fall more on the side that this money will not be used for what we were told and that the window dressing put on the whole fee system was disingenuous. Maybe the Ranger was a bit over zealous, I was not there so I don't know, but if (s)he was, that was one of many others that are very professional and curteous about their job. Productions like that only hurt their cause, in my opinion anyways. Yes I have friends that are NPS Rangers. I am sure quite of few of you do to. That video just makes the field Rangers job harder, and it doesn't affect the management Rangers where the decisions were made.

Please understand, I am not in favor of the fee system and support the message. Just not the messangers presentation, in this video anyway.

bigsur

09-09-2013 03:35 PM

Let me start this riot by first saying, back country fees are like dessert some will eat pie with ice cream others think it's a waste to ruin pie like that, there is no pat answer as far as I can tell. What I am in favor of is bringing Cades Cove into modern times by stopping the senseless carbon monoxide auto circus that slowly grinds it's way thru the cove choking everything in it's path. I do not think the powers that were in place at that time could possibly have forseen the the number or size of vehicles that would eventually arrive. My greatest joy is hanging a left into Tremont and waving goodbye to the throng assualting the cove or watching them leave in November. I am strongly in favor of a solar or electric vehicle (i.e. bus or tram) that deposits the masses at the usual stops, the mill, trailheads, the campground and also enables bicycle riders access without the usual danger that the normal heavy traffic brings when they descend on the cove especially week ends. I would entertain any idea and yes charge them for the ride and access. I also want world peace and a large catch of brookies everytime I fish! :biggrin:

JoeFred

09-10-2013 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigsur
(Post 108079)

... I am strongly in favor of a solar or electric vehicle (i.e. bus or tram)...

...I also want world peace and a large catch of brookies everytime I fish! :biggrin:

:smile: :smile: :smile:

Grannyknot

09-11-2013 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoosier
(Post 108076)

....... and I fall more on the side that this money will not be used for what we were told and that the window dressing put on the whole fee system was disingenuous.

Those have been my thoughts all along. Smoke & mirrors for what the money will really be spent on.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is already happening. The backcountry rangers have been scrapped and as far as most people can tell, the funds are really only paying for the reservation system.

So basically, we have a toll road, where the toll only pays for the toll booth itself. Genius.

mattblick

09-11-2013 08:51 AM

That video is great, isn't it? Posted it to FaceBook a few weeks ago. I've been following this issue for some time. Jim has spoken out against it many times. Johnny Molloy has as well. I think every country surrounding the park has passed resolutions against it. The park superintendent does not care. He has fee envy for the very few other parks that have enacted this. He has admitted to seeking new revenue sources from "the park that should remain free".

FOI requests were require to obtain the survey results - the park said they would for 2 grand. I haven't heard if they were obtained or not but would love to see a for/against count alone since the park claimed most responders were in favor of it. Most were against (park lie) even with the (park lie) that it would fund additional rangers.

SFW has detailed folks getting awakened by Rangers at 7AM "SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!" The park is understaffed as it is; do we really need the Rangers spending time following up on reservation compliance? I can tell you with experience that a ranger woke me at 8 asking for my papers. I know several of the Rangers by name, but can't remember this one's because I was not 1/4 awake as I walked barefoot in my long johns to retrieve my permit. I really wanted to ask him if this was the best use of his time; but decide that he probably isn't too pleased having to do this either. The rangers might have to do this early in order to compensate for their other duties. DB DD holds all the blame IMHO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pmike
(Post 108074)

Hope it's ok to post this link. These folks have done a lot of research and pose some very reasonable questions about and objections to the recent implementation of fees for camping in the Backcountry. There have been many that have been misinformed and misled, but this site present facts that have been seriously researched, facts that are based upon evidence available to back them. Please check out the video link on the main page...

It's perfect Joe! Now hand me my zoot suit and you can drive me over to the bootleggers in Gatlinburg before we pick up the girls. Say do you have any of that new music by that hot new kid Cab Calloway! :biggrin:

NDuncan

09-11-2013 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grannyknot
(Post 108100)

Those have been my thoughts all along. Smoke & mirrors for what the money will really be spent on.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe this is already happening. The backcountry rangers have been scrapped and as far as most people can tell, the funds are really only paying for the reservation system.

So basically, we have a toll road, where the toll only pays for the toll booth itself. Genius.

That's because it was never about raising money for the park. It's a zero sum game meant to limit, impede, and otherwise discourage backcountry use.