That was the sound of me delighting in the Sox giving a big contract to an aging, injury prone pitcher who has lots of red flags, a contract they’ll quickly regret just like J.D. Drew, and Mike Lowell and David Ortiz and the like.

theyankeewarrior

But JD Drew has been worth more than we paid him since his signing!!!!1!11!!!

You should care. He improves the rotation of a team that won 95 games.

And now they can move someone for a bat.

Steve H

Glad to see their truly is financial parity in baseball. When the Sox can dig thru couch cushions to get the #1 starter on the market, it’s a good day for baseball. Hopefully this holds off the communism that is a salary cap for another day.

http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/open-thread-you-have-the-red-sox-19930/ the artist formerly known as (sic)

Commit a boatload of money to an over-30 injury-prone pitcher with declining peripherals while simultaneously ignoring their need for another bat?

Why yes, that IS my wish for the Red Sox this offseason! How did you know?

http://aol Rob

Beltre will sign soon and then there will be a shift in AL East power. Where is our upgrade to Pitching, pitching, pitching like jack ass Cashman said??

That jackass that handed us a top 3 cf for 2 pitchers we won’t miss and a CF who projects to possibly be as good as the guy we traded for? That jackass?

radnom

Commit a boatload of money to an over-30 injury-prone pitcher with declining peripherals while simultaneously ignoring their need for another bat?

Why yes, that IS my wish for the Red Sox this offseason! How did you know?

Several things.

1. Lackey is the same age as Burnett was he signed his deal.
2. Lackey is arguably less injury prone than Burnett (although recent history has shifted a bit).
3. Lackey has historically been a better pitcher.
4. It seems like people slap the “declining peripherals” tag on any pitcher older than 30 who they don’t want the Yankees to sign. Lackeys peripherals have been quite consistent (and better than AJ’s) over the last three years. Look it up.

I’m not trying to say that this was a good signing, or that I think the Yankees should have mad a play at Lackey (I don’t). But I think the fact is that most of us have come to terms with the Burnett signing and see it overall as a good one, that we maybe overpayed but he fills a useful hole and is worth it. If the terms of this deal are indeed for almost the same years/money as Burnett, then this is an equal, even slightly better contract for the Red Sox, due to the four facts I’ve listed above. It is just a little hypocritical that everyone is blowing their load over how dumb the Sox are, while at the same time being content with the remaining 4 years on Burnett’s deal.

OldYanksFan

I resent this post It makes far too much sense!

Richard Deegan

Only thing is (according to BB-ref splits), Lackey can pitch anywhere BUT Fenway and YS (splits indicate he gets eaten alive in those two parks). However, he does well at Rogers

Whitey14

Most pitchers probably have similar splits when pitching against NY and Boston due to their offenses…just guessing though

Sam

What does their rotation look like then?

Lackey, Lester, Beckett, Dice-K, Bucholz/Wakefield?

I’d like to counter with bringing in Ben Sheets but that might just be me.

Which also works in the Yankees favor also. Even though we hit Beckett well hes better than Lackey and doesnt not have the arm trouble history.

But he does have more blisters than Ron Mexico

Steve H

He even has blisters on his fingers too!

Whitey14

Sounds like they’re trying to renegotiate with Beckett simultaneously, probably figuring on the nine million they won’t be paying Lowell next year and the twelve or thirteen million they won’t be paying Ortiz….plus, isn’t this is for Drew and his fourteen million…or does he have one year left?

http://riveraveblues.com/2009/11/open-thread-you-have-the-red-sox-19930/ the artist formerly known as (sic)

Only bc I didnt refresh.

NO ONE DENIES THIS!

Rose

Like I said in the other thread. I heard rumblings about the Red Sox continuing to inquire about Adrian Gonzalez and being told they need a package of Buchholz (who is now 100% expendable) and one of Casey Kelly or Westmoreland…but the Red Sox felt that 2 of those would be too much. Two of those is TOO MUCH??? For Adrian Gonzalez??

Yeah but you have Lackey long term now. Which will trigger you to extend Becketts deal. Then you have Dice K for a while longer…and Lester isn’t going anywhere. That makes Buchholz expendable.

There is absolutely no way the Red Sox sign 2 long term contracts this offseason. They need to fill LF and 1B/3B right now. The cheapest and smartest solution right now…is to do via trade…for somebody who is extremely affordable (A Gon).

They can afford it. They have $$$ coming out of their ears thru NESN. They are not a small market team, no matter what they try selling you. They can easily go and get Holliday and Beltre if they want, right now. They can get Nick Johnson cheap and move Youk over.

Steve H

Why not have 5 good pitchers? Why not have more? Beckett/Lackey/Dice-k all have health question marks surrounding them.

Buchholz is just as critical to their long-term success as Joba/Hughes is to ours. A cost-controlled quality young pitcher who can give you league average now and possibly/probably ace in the future is a super-valuable chip not to be parted with lightly.

Yes, Gonzalez makes a ton of sense, but he’s still going to cost Buchholz AND their top minor-league prospect (debate amongst yourselves who that is) and probably a good amount of other stuff as well. The Padres are non-motivated sellers; they’re practically anti-motivated sellers. They’re not giving him away unless they get bowled away.

Still not gonna happen.

Rose

Buchholz is just as critical to their long-term success as Joba/Hughes is to ours.

Their minor league numbers are closer, with Clay still pulling up the rear.

One thing Buchholz has going in his favor is that he pitched 190 innings last year, so he’s ready to pitch an entire season next year.

However, Buchholz is 2 years older than Hughes, and 1.5 years older than Joba.

Rose

Those numbers include both Joba’s and Phil’s successful bullpen ‘sessions’ though right? Clay, on the other hand, started for a much larger majority of his MLB career thus far.

Reggie C.

Hoyer’s gotta give Padres fan a reason to show up. Since the RS don’t have any high ceiling offensive prospects, it doesn’t make sense for Hoyer to part with a ML top-5 1B.

Westmoreland and Kelly have never even played a full season above Low-A. Kelly may be getting the fast track, but he started in Low-A last season. Hoyer’s got to get back more sure assets.

Tampa Yankee

So they plan on winning games 3-2? they have no LF, Ortiz/Varietk/Drew/Lowell (trade may not happen but if it does, no 3B) are declining, Taco Bellbury sucks, Scurtaro is not as good as last year’s stats. Plus, does that bullpen really scare anyone? It doesn’t scare me. But you never know, they could go get Beltre or Nick Johnson (slide Douchelis to 3B). I just don’t see how such a small market could spend that much though.

http://bronxbaseballdaily.com Matt ACTY/BBD

Drew’s had back-to-back 130 OPS+ years. Don’t sleep on Nancy. We may dislike him, but he’s a solid player.

Thomas

True, JD has had two straight 130 OPS+ seasons. However, he has missed 78 games in that span. Thus, the overall Red Sox RF OPS is probably quite a bit lower.

I don’t think it’s a lock to happen, but if the Lowell trade goes through and they add Beltre, they could just play Beltre at 3rd, Kotchman at 1st, and shift Captain Caveman out to LF. Having that configuration is a pretty mammoth positive swing in defense over the Youk at first/Lowell at third/Bay in left crap they ran out there last year.

Chris

His career UZR/150 in LF is -21.3.

Of course, he’s only played 20 games out there (18 in 2006 and 2 in 2009), so it’s not like any of these numbers are really meaningful.

Forgot about Hermida. Anderson was before they signed Hermida I believe. Nice catch.

Steve H

It’s December 14th. The season doesn’t start today.

Mike bk

the counter to this move is just to sign Cameron because spending this on lackey means they wont be re-signing bay or bringing in holliday in all likelihood because beckett needs to get extended as will V-Mart. If they are going to go for the defense angle Cameron is the best of those 8 mil OF’s out there.

Evil Empire

Very astute. I agree.

Put the pressure on Damon and if he can’t commit within a couple days, snag Cameron.

if lackey gets burnett money counting what they are paying lugo and lowell they are at approx 135 mil next year. the highest they have ever gone is 143 is all im saying.

Steve H

But that doesn’t mean they can’t afford it. NESN is a money factory for them, they way YES is for the Yankees.

Whitey14

NESN is co-owned by the Red Sox and Bruins so they don’t receive all the profits and even if they did, NESN < YES, by about a gazillion viewers…

Steve H

Is this John Henry?

Evil Empire

A bold move for a small-to-medium franchise. Clearly they’re putting all of their eggs into one basket, they can’t afford to make mistakes with such a meager payroll. The fanbase is dedicated, sure, but also small. Not enough to truly support the team ala Baltimore.

DP

Let’s not get carried away here the other way. 4 or 5 years from now, I’m sure they’ll regret it, and it’s not the best deal, but it still would make the 2010 Red Sox a lot better. Personally I still think they’re gonna get Bay or Holliday and Beltre, but if they don’t then I’ll agree it’s a huge mistake on their part. NOTE: I’m not panicked or anything nor do I think in any way the Yanks need to respond. But it’s still good for them to put John Lackey on the roster.

Thomas

The Sox won’t have him in 4 or 5 years. By the end of year 3, they will have eaten 75% of his salary and traded him to another team.

That’s a difference of 44 runs, not 20. Granted, Burnett pitched more innings, but still. AJ’s raw ERA, all in the AL, is 3.97. Lackey’s is 3.48.

Over the past 3 years, Lackey >>> Burnett

Steve H

He’s about the same as AJ, and for the most part we consider that contract to be extremely risky, and probably won’t get a strong return for 1-2 of those years. Don’t need two of those contracts in the rotation.

Mike HC

Very true. But a long contract for basically any pitcher in baseball can be expected to have a one or two year period of weak returns. So all things are still equal.

Damnit. I wanted them both OUT of the league. This Lackey thing boils my blood, and I wanted the Yanks to retain Matsui. But that’s business. I hope the Yanks strike back with Damon or someone else.

Salty Buggah

Here’s to Lackey sucking thanks to that bandbox in Boston.

Rod

Now we just need some teams to snap up Bay and Holliday and the Yankees can sign Cameron and possibly take a flyer on Sheets/Duchserererer

Bronx Cheer

If this does go through for the Sox, I wouldn’t be surprised to see them turn their sights on Cameron. Cheap OF option allows them to pick up Beltre or Nick Johnson to round out their infield and maximize defense behind a solid pitching staff.

Rod

Precisely why the Yankees should go after him in addition to the fact that he would be great on a one year deal.

Bronx Cheer

Is Lackey a fly ball pitcher?

Steve H

His face is a fly catcher.

Neil B.

With Lackey off the market (not that I wanted the Yankees to sign him, one long-term deal with an injury risk is enough), this pretty much confirms that the Yankees are gonna look to Sheets/Duchscherer if they want extra pitching depth.

And unless Cash manages to convince management to go a good 5-8M over budget, that’ll mean no return for Damon (if/when Boras eventually caves to a two-year deal, there should be several offers in the $10M range).

In my opinion, then, that makes a Matsui return even more important, so I really hope the Angels don’t snag him before the Yankees realize that negotiations with Damon won’t lead anywhere.

Tampa Yankee

1:41pm: Yahoo’s Tim Brown has an Angels source who believes they’re still in the running for Lackey and the pitcher has not accepted a Boston offer.

Rose

OK, a little off topic but just as important.

Why the hell would the Phillies trade Cliff Lee in a blockbuster 3 team deal for Halladay?? Halladay is older and more expensive. And apparently the reasoning behind not keeping Lee is because he won’t take a “discount” to stay with them.

Now I’m no rocket scientist, but I don’t think Halladay is going to take a discount either…and I’m sure he’ll be much more expensive.

Just doesn’t make sense to me…but I would love it if that 3rd team were the Yankees (getting Cliff Lee). What do you think it would take to get Lee?

Reggie C.

I think this rumor is going to get its own thread w/in the next half-hr.

Halladay is supposed to in a Philly-area hotel right now according to Rotoworld. That part of Cliff Lee getting traded makes zero sense and it makes me doubt the whole thing. Keep both guys for 1 year , offer Lee arbitration, get back 2 draft picks when Lee signs with the Yanks.

Tampa Yankee

2:55pm: Heyman says the Red Sox and Lackey are in agreement in a five-year, $85MM deal.

Ansky

hmmm so the Sox just committed big money to another free agent once again. So…how long til the Sox trade Lackey to the Dodgers and pay 75% of the money owed on his contract?

Lanny

Lackey certainly improves that rotation and gives them the best rotation in the league right now if all are healthy.

Drew

Yeah Beckett and Dice-bb looked great last year.

Joe D.

The Yankees are ruining competitive baseball with these endless attempts to out-and-out buy a World Championship. It makes me sick. They are destroying the greatest sport ever…don’t you Yankee fans care about that?