Could Mega Churches Survive

Do you think that some mega churches (those which are very 'entertaining') would survive if the loud music, jumping as if everyone has springs on their feet, the hype and whipping up of emotions were removed and the congregation/audience were asked to sit and listen calmly to the preaching of God's Word?

Dear Richard,before this blog ends I must mention one other thing about images. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. In other words, a symbol is not as worse as the real thing. The real thing is worse then the symbol. So hell is worse then what the symbols indicate. Agape

//Were are the wicked cast outer darkness - so there can be no more day, And time comes to a end - No more Sun and Moon - Stars fall from sky - The celestial clock is stopped - Revelation 10:6 - Isaiah 13:10 - Now maybe there is a day and night in hell ?, or is all this Symbolic ?//

Dear Richard, I do believe every description given to hell is symbolic. They are images of what we call hell. "a place of outer darkness, lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesn't turn or die."These are graphic images of eternal punishment. These descriptions literally are symbols of a literal place. Agape

RichardC, we simply have different beliefs on the subject. I am at peace with mine, and believe the Word of God. Since we see in that verse the word DEATH and DEAD...., in the context that each phrase states, common sense tells us it is not referring to the nonexistant extinguished. The verse would make no sense referring to something that is extinguished yet held in a place called hades. In your definition, then every graveyard would be called hades. And the dead in Christ who rise first at the first resurrection are not rising from hades. When a Christian dies today, they immediately go to be with The Lord NOW IN HEAVEN, where Jesus opened the way into the Holy of Holies with his own blood. Colossians 3:-14

Karthr - Were are the wicked cast outer darkness - so there can be no more day, And time comes to a end - No more Sun and Moon - Stars fall from sky - The celestial clock is stopped - Revelation 10:6 - Isaiah 13:10 - Now maybe there is a day and night in hell ?, or is all this Symbolic ?

Luke - I know this , but over the centuries there got to be billions ,

Matthew 7:14 - Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way , that which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it,

Isaiah 65:17 - For Behold , I create new heavens and a new earth : and the former shall not be remembered not come to mind,

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever..12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God, ( how can anyone see something that doesn't exist) 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: .....14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire......a place described as one being TORMENTED DAY AND NIGHT FOREVER AND EVER .

// I can't see one group living in paradise - while the other group - billions - are being torment for eternity - this debate is all over the web , We could go on forever verses by verse going over this,//

Dear Richard,Do not use your own logic, because "you" do not think it is right that some are in hell and some are in heaven. I wish no one would go to hell, but it is not what I wish but what God ordains. Anyone who sins against God owes a debt, for He is holy and righteous and we are sinful. God can and does do what He wills no matter if we like it or not. Plus, in my opinion I do not think there will be more in hell then in heaven. That is my opinion only. Jesus spoke a lot about hell. To many times. Agape

...the soul that sinneth, it shall die.I believe in the Resurrection of the dead not reincarnation. Read 1corithians 15. Now where in the Bible does it say hades has two compartments? You are correct on it not being Gehenna. Sheol is the Hebrew and Hades is the Greek. In the Greek theology it had three compartments. One for those who earned high rewards. The second for those who did nothing too bad or too good. Then the every burning place of fire for the wicked, similar to what you teach. But not found in the Bible. Hades is thrown into Gehenna. How do you explain that.

Rev 20:14

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Soul and spirit can not die - Karthr -what verses are you using,---RichardC on 7/12/14

RichardC.....do you know the verse RE Jesus ..." Thou will not LEAVE my SOUL in hell. So where was Jesus for 3 days? Again hell aka hades or Sheol is not the lake of fire we all call hell as well. Hell, Sheol, hades had two compartments with a great gulf between, the one side called paradise aka Abraham's bosom, where Jesus in fact went and the man who died next to Jesus went, "TODAY you will be with me in paradise". Otherwise RICHARDC you are teaching reincarnation.

Karthr - If you go back to the original blog were all this started , I said to luke yes I think there could be a real place - hell - like he say's God could destroy, I can't see one group living in paradise - while the other group - billions - are being torment for eternity - this debate is all over the web , We could go on forever verses by verse going over this, I do think this topic is so ingrain - just look at a cartoon the mouse hit's the cat over the head with a hammer - and the cat is in a red cave with the devil ,

//Cluny: "My favorite definition of a coincidence is when God does a miracle and remains anonymous."

God never lets his miracle to be anonymous. Miracles are proof of God's existance - so are prophesies.//

Steven,for your information God is doing millions upon millions of miracles right now and no one even sees them. Don't you remember all those people who were saved during the plane crash on the Hudson? That was one of His big miracles. No one died. And there is many more.Maybe what you are talking about is the miracles Jesus and His Apostles during their ministry. Agape

Richard, I look at all the verses that speak of HELL, not total extinction. So whether you want to say Luke 16 is a parable, allegory or whatever ......it doesn't say the lost become totally extinct. First we know HELL was made for FALLEN angels who cannot physically die, but are dead to The Lord . And we know it is a place of torment. And we know it was not originally meant for man, but NOW man will share in that same place with fallen angels. . Please put on your thinking cap. Souls and spirits cannot die. Isn't man made up body soul and spirit? So RICHARD what do you believe the second death is....total extinction again? Being extinct in the same place as non extinct angels? Seriously?

//Do not fear man for he can only destroy the body, but fear God for he can destroy the body and the soul.//

Steven,this is a passage heretics use to insist God is destroying souls in heaven. But nowhere does the passage say God is destroying souls in heaven, only that He can if He so chooses to do so. Why? Because He is God and can do whatsoever He wants, He is always right. But those in hell will suffer, get punished. The sentence is forever. Agape

Mount of transfiguration - Yes were dealing with save people , Try to find a place in the bible were the wicked are alive after there dead ? Out side of luke 16 , Now some people have luke 16 like you as a true story for some of the reason you mention, But there elements in the story that do make it a allegory, Look at all the stories before 16:19 there all parables, put - Lazarus parable - in your web bowser and you will have hundreds of sites

Malachi 4:3 - And ye shall tread down the wicked: for they shall be ashes under the sole of your feet in that day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts

Here is another FACT that is no parable. Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration WITH Moses and Elijah. Kinda strange if one becomes non- existent when their physical body dies. Jesus was actually talking to them as well. SOOOO we have another example of life after death.

Luke 17:26-27, "And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all."

LITERAL names are used in Luke 17. The same is true concerning Luke 16:18-31, which uses the literal names of Abraham, Lazarus, and Moses. Jesus always said what was a parable and used the words LIKE or LIKENED TO in His Parables and used earthly objects in those parables. Luke 16 is about spiritual things, uses literal names and never likens anything to anything.

//First the rich do not automatically go to paradise. Nor are the poor cursed of GOD. This is still a common teaching. It is also can apply to how Jews looked at non-Jews.//

Samuel, you are now saying that Jesus made up a story that was not true. That would mean He was deceiving the believers with the story. Then you say, // It says the Bosom of Abraham. To be literal his chest will because so large all of humanity can rest in his arms.//

The bosom of Abraham is an expression that was used in the Talmud as a figure for heaven. The idea was that Lazurus was given a place of high honor, reclining next to Abraham at the heavenly banquet. Jesus said it, so it's true. Agape

Samuel, "Abraham's Bosom" AKA Paradise was a place both Jew and Gentile went who were saved before Jesus Rose from the dead. Abel was also there. As was Job Noah etc. Abraham is the father of faith to both Jew and Gentile and has ALWAYS BEEN.

Luke 16....."Please warn by family:.....Warn of what? ans: ....HELL! The Law of Moses warned, "the wages of SIN is death", and THIS death is separation from God in torment forever. Yet even Moses and the Law pointed to Jesus Christ. The JUST shall live by faith as did even Noah before the Law was first stated in the OT.

Rich man and Lazarus. First the rich do not automatically go to paradise. Nor are the poor cursed of GOD. This is still a common teaching. It is also can apply to how Jews looked at non-Jews. It says the Bosom of Abraham. To be literal his chest will because so large all of humanity can rest in his arms. Luke 16:31...And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.JESUS later on resurrected Lazarus from the dead and they still did not believe. So this Parable and yes it is listed as a Parable in many commentaries also has a prophecy which JESUS fulfilled by resurrecting Lazarus. Which is why a name is used here.

//Shira, God brought many people to our country, for whatever reason and however they came to be here, I believe God is in control.//

Dear Kathr,You are totally correct in your answer. God is in control not us. Everything thing that happens was decreed by God. When we move from country to country, it was decreed by God. We are making the decisions, but all of it was decreed it would happen. Yet we are still guilty for our own sins. God is in control. That is why we place our faith in Him. He is never wrong. His promises never fail. Anyone who says His promises fail, do not know the God of the Bible. Agape

Hi Elena, oh I agree completely we as Christains should never marry or even date anyone outside our faith.

But for American Christians to show love, and not hate or fear for those many feel a great prejudice towards, for whatever reasons, real or taught by others, is WHY WE are to walk BY FAITH, and not BY SIGHT or emotions. God is not a respector of persons, and we are to have that same heart. It's not for us to decide who to witness to based solely on our personal prejudice....as we see in Scripture. And many of those you are so fearful of are actually Christians. You would never find that out hiding in fear.

Now I do wonder about all these children coming here escaping violence in their own country. Isn't that why the majority of ANYONE in America came here in the first place?

May want to read those words on Lady Liberty again as a reminder.

I don't know the answer to this, and it truly breaks my heart that these babies are holding up their arms for us to pick up and make feel safe. The ironic thing here is, those for abortion want to let them in, those against abortion want them to die.

Oh I know that remark will bring the wrath of some here. BUT, I bet if some plague hit our country taking half the population, we would welcome them......oh, I forgot...abortion HAS taken ...what % of our population??????

To Kathr4453, bless you.I must admitYes! I have known 2 devout muslims turn to Christ and they are still out here witnessing, have cut all ties from the mosque. Yes, anything is possible if people can believe..you right! I am persuaded not to hate but, I am NOT wanting to date nobody, and not a moslem. My daughter it been so, hard but yes, we have to love people but we have to be carefull, too. I understand how Shira4368,can feel, we don't know alot still, it amazes me, to this day how my own daughter got sohpnotized by this guy, his own mother was afraid of him, he did alot of bad things.. I do not think all of them are NOT like my son in law. we have to pray for people ..somebody prayed for me.Love of Jesus!

OUR citizenship is in Heaven not here. Colossians 3:1-4..WE ARE DEAD TO THIS WORLD! CRUCIFIED TO THIS WORLD Galatians 6. We are strangers and pilgrims in this world ambassadors FOR CHRIST regardless of where we are placed in this life. I'm really getting sick and tired of this entitlement attitude American Christians have. We are told times will be dangerous but to carry on doing GOD's WILL. God's Will is NOT that some Christians have it easy while others are being murdered as we speak. Sorry Shira, but God NEVER made a special covenant with a GENTILE NATION in the first place.

The way I also see it, that many others may not, is Jesus faced His own religious fanatics who killed their own savior. This same fanaticism murdered many Christians in the early church days after Pentecost. Yet Jesus love for the Lost and those who hated Him never deterred His purpose, passed down to His Apostles, and to us. Paul went into dangerous areas to bring the gospel not only to hostile Jews but HEATHEN GENTILES, who before they heard the gospel also practiced various religions NOT CHRISTIAN.

Why should these people be deprived of that same sacrifice from us today? When did our ENTITLEMENT come into play. Oh I know...when the Gospel of America began to be preached.

kathr, do you honestly believe God brought everyone to America that has come here from other countries? God is not going to stop someone from coming here to blow us up. God is not gonna intervene for a country that kills millions of babies. many who come here don't care about God or Christians.

Shira4368, I got to say yes, I agree with you. God forbid, I pray that I am wrong, but, this little moslem guy been really talking to me and it sort of got my attention, he really was telling me alot of stuff and a sister talked to me, I told her, I could tell exactly what he was up to I am not a young girl, and I do not date, do not pay him no minds. I told him about my daughter married into that religion, culture not allowed to see me or talk to me. No, not interested. he seems like he looking for wife2..I notice now they do not come except to eat the meal and go.Our pastor is a kind man, but he will not let them preach islam in our church, or any other cult. Our church is Christ centered.Love of Jesus!

Shira, God brought many people to our country, for whatever reason and however they came to be here, I believe God is in control. Now because we are a nation with Christians, it is through our love, that is the spirit of God's Love placed in us, not to let our personal feelings get in the way of God working through us. So we must put aside all personal feelings, political stances, and personal prejudices etc, and witness like never before. We don't know if God brought them here to hear the gospel through us. Time is running out, and our love for the lost must surpass our love of Nationalism. National pride turned Germany into murderers....all in the name of......yep! even they thought their acts were righteous....but we know differently.

kathr, thank you. there must be some muslims who are sweet people but the war and seeing what they do to each other I am very uncomfortable around them. you never know who is a plant and who is not a plant. Ive never made blanket statements like this but I do not trust muslims. the thing I really hate is they hide their faces so you don't know who they are. I would never offend anyone so don't take this the wrong way. I am being me...truthful

Hi Shira, I also believe there are many peaceful moderate Muslims in this country who also want to escape the fanatical extremist who also kill their own. We are seeing this right now in their own back yards. RELIGION, whether the crusades with the RCC (who at one time tried to take over the world ) or these extremists, no Shira, you don't have an over active imagination. History always finds a way to repeat itself. Religious wars have never stopped.

kathr, I agree with you somewhat. muslims will kill you if you do not change your faith to islam. we haven't experienced real persecutions in this country yet but you can bet its coming. the day will come when guards will stand at church doors and not let anyone in. churches are gonna burn and the enemy will have no problem burning a Christian. Christians will be persecuted right here in America. we are already beginning to see a massive hate for Christians and the cross. boy haven't I got a good imagination?

Dear Rita,The answer is "yes" it would survive but it would become very small. I would say that out of a thousand, maybe 200 would stay to hear the word. Many who get discourage without music, leave to later look for another church with a lot of people and music. In big churches they can hide, go to church when they want and no one will notice them gone. In a small church, everyone knows when you are gone. Agape

all the worldly churches will survive. Only the born again body of believers will be truly persecuted especially when muslims have enough in our country to complete their mission. Liberty was the only mega church I know that did not go secular especially before Jerry Falwell died. I don't know about now. larry king thought he would trip Dr. Falwell up but larry ain't as smart as he thinks he is. Jerry Falwell was a very smart biblical preacher.

"For false Christ and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, "if" possible, even the elect" Matthew 24:24.//

What this says to me is that the deception is going to be so much so that without Christ in you, you have no ability to discern this counterfeit deception. And those saved, .....well, ...I'd say you better stay steeped in the Word of God, which is your armor, because scripture also tells us only those exercised to discern both good and evil, are those who eat the meat of the word. Meaning maturity.

Have YOU been exercised, tested etc? Some here claim they don't need testing. Beware of those false teachers as well.

//oh what did the word say? do not be deceive...or even the very elect is deceived.//

Dear Mike,The elect are not deceived. You read the passage wrong. "For false Christ and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, "if" possible, even the elect" Matthew 24:24.This clearly implies that such a deception is not possible, for we are told in (John 10:4,5).

"And when He brings out His own sheep, He goes before them, and the sheep follow Him, for they know His voice. "yet they will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him," for they do not know the voice of strangers"

there are many miracles that people say are coincidences. I know of a handful myself. I think I have told them here on christianet in the past. miracles are not of chance. they are divine intervention.

my dear brother in Christ, Bro. elder, this is why I admire you so much. you can explain things perfectly. You have a special gift and you use it for the glory of God. I advise others here on CN to listen also.

All denominational/non-denominational churches/charitable organizations fall under the tax exempt rules of the IRS - IRS 501(c)(3) non-profit tax exempt corporation. If you don't conform to IRS rules a church can have their non-profit status taken away.

In fact, many ministers have participated in an event called "Pulpit Freedom Sunday," where they openly defy the law by endorsing candidates from the pulpit edging the IRS to arrest them. Is that lawlessness, not obeying the law of the land? Are churches to be caught up in cultural issues? Or are they to preach and train up disciples?

In worship, what is in the heart of the person is what matters. If shouting and moving a lot are done so the SHOUTER is noticed, God is removed as the central worship figure. If we judge which, we do wrong.

"...we shouldn't have to fall down & roll on the ground...What has happened in many churches is they feel getting pump[ed] up before the word helps them. But hearing the word of God should be something that's in our hearts already. We don't need music to help us. But we should still have some music or hymns. We need to have a balance....Agape"---Luke on 6/27/14

True Luke: Being "slain" in the spirit isn't Bible. I've attended congregations where they run in wild abandonment inside the building, roll on the floor & nearly bite furniture ~ utter ecstatic babble & use music as an instrument of social-psychological manipulation to achieve a drug-like induced euphoria.

No one has ever rolled around on the floor in the church I attend nor ever has in 'most' others I've attended.

Ours is decent and orderly without being regimented and always being the same.

We have a good mixture of prayer, singing (old and modern hymns) an occasional testimony, a solo or a poem read by a member. All are included who wish to be included and no one is forced or embarrassed into doing what they do not feel God is asking them to do.

Steven put down your sword or be more careful when you us it. Remember it has two edges one side cuts out the other side cuts in. When condemn your condemning your on body when your judging your judging your on body. Body of Christ which you are part of? Do you condemn you on body? Then why do you condemn body of Christ?

Dear Rita,you are correct that some not all, denominations use a lot of music and not much of the word. Also we should not have to fall down and roll on the ground. Some denominations go to far to the left, and others too far to the right. But this does not happen in all denominations as Steven always suggest. He loves to see blogs like this so he can put his two cents in against all denominations. What has happened in many churches is that they feel getting pump up before the word helps them. But hearing the word of God should be something that is in our hearts already. We do not need music to help us. But we should still have some music or hymns. We need to have a balance. Just my thoughts, Agape

Hello,Sis.Rita God bless you,really enjoy your bloggs!topics always,let me say I've visited 2 mega churchyrs.ago,if they LET GO all the Sensationalism,the hype,high priced payed famous $8,000 (at least paid) Musicians & $12,000 famous Singers+ Choirs who draw the crowds...I doubt if they be round long,lt become like"a drug fix" the people who come,it's not my type of church, now that I know and live for the Lord. I love my church we keep it simple. I have sang,it's acappellaNo glamour glitz you got to.hold a note know how to expand your voice and sing for real!! There no back up,nobody to cover if you mess up! Love of Jesus!

All denominational churches (and any other church that falls under IRS rules) will not only survive, but will thrive. The true church of God creates disciples, but people who attend these denominational churches are hearers only and attend because the preachers tickle the ears of the members with worldly knowledge. Sure, denominational preachers throw in a verse or two to make their sermons sound as thought they are biblical, but what they preach is a watered down version of the gospel - and many times do not preach the gospel or of sin for they fear to alienate their members and make them feel bad.

It is written that gatherings are to be orderly not a bunch of people rolling on the floor laughing their heads off.

Why are we so angry? I've been in mega churches and I've been in small churches. Found the Gospel working in both of them. The ones were there was not Gospel, are not here any more. So God knows and if your message does not bring life your church will pass away. Galatians 6:7 you will reap what you sow.

I go to a "mega church." currently at 35,000 people weekly across South Carolina, 10 campuses. I said yes because we do have a good teaching period and we do have evidence of good fruit in the real life change which effects hundreds of lives every week. I said no because you are changing our methodology (not doctrine) and purpose. The hype, loud music is not just because we "want to" there is a strategy behind that song. Some songs are just fun (for example Sweet Home Alabama), some are played to tenderize the heart (keep bleeding love), and some are played to bring a message (Highway to Hell).

The mega churches can stop the entertainment etc if the pastors just put their foot sown. But they will Not bcause they Are bound by the gods of lies, #s & $s. If they lose such then they won't have their lavish life styles. Not to minister for filthy lucres sake.