If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

For the third time I will expain what I wrote again. A series like lost is scripted, but that does not make a soap opera now does it? Nor does having drama instantly make something a soap opera. I really wish people who complain about wrestling would have more creative reasons than either.

I can't find the correct term for it, so I'm using soap opera for now.

The fights are scripted, so it isn't a competitive sport.
The scripts suck.

I have to be honest in saying that I don't think people give Cena enough credit. The majority of the wrestling he does he does good, and I personally think its more WWE pushing him to do only the selection of moves he does in each match. If you look at his "I quit" match with JBL it shows he is very capable, and certainly he can get it done on the microphone better than many people.

I think Cena's good run was when he was fighting JBL all those years ago. Since then he hasn't really evolved as a wrestler, ie few new moves and hasn't really polished his current offence, nor has his program (I mean seriously aside from a few months here and there he's just been going for the World Title).

To me Cena is all about power, there's no technical skill in his work (especially when you compare him to most of the people he's feuded with, especially second generation wrestlers who are naturally more gifted then a first generation wrestler). So much of his offence is about emphasising how strong he is, finesse is perfectly acceptable too.
My chief complaint about him is that he can't sell, people like Orton HBK and HHH will get a 'second wind' and hit the moves they need to hit to win a match even after taking a ton of punishment, but they'll still show that an area that's been worked over is hurting. When Cena fought HBK at Mania several years ago HBK worked over his right leg for like 15minutes, not only did Cena not sell it when he got his second wind he wasn't selling it after the match and that's not a one of thing with him.

His mic work these days is pretty meh in my opinion considering his idea of being intense is just yelling. Whereas people like Edge, HHH, Orton they change their tone of voice for different effects (eg ice cold to show contempt or dropping to low and quiet to be threatening) as well as yell.

Originally Posted by -Raiga-

Sheltons one of my favorite wrestlers(and I think J.R. calling him possibly the best pure athlete may not be far off), and I think he does still have what it takes to be as good of a champion on ECW as Matt Hardy was, but I think WWE really dropped the ball with him when he was in his absolute prime with charlie haas.

Shelton is by far and away the best pure athlete in the WWE, I have yet to see anyone who can do half the things he can (Evan and Kofi are probably as close as you'll get). And the other thing is that he's not just able to do the freaking spots he's famous for he's also an extremely solid mat wrestler.
They certainly dropped the ball, but then Shelton has stuffed up in the past too (been in the doghouse for having the wrong attitude) so it's not all management's fault.

Originally Posted by -Raiga-

Which is probably for the better. There is no doubt in my mind he needed to get the jamaican gimmick when he started(as he has came a long way since he started in both promos and wrestling). However I also though that Kofi had what it took to be the next rock or cena, and if they manage to get both Randy over as heel while getting Kofi over to the main event scene right now I think he has that opportunity.

Kofi's gimmick definitely needs changing if he's going to become a main-eventer. The Jamaican one was fun and all but it's a mid-carder's gimmick, not a main-eventer.
I'm still not sure if Kofi's gonna be the next Rock, cause the Rock was probably a one of a kind guy (not to mention one of those pure naturals as a Third Generation wrestler), I think the next 'big' guy in the company who isn't an established main-eventer is Morrison.

But they do need to push Randy now to make up for wrecking yet another of his title runs. The problem for Randy is that he's at a stage where he can't go back to "The Legend Killer" gimmick cause he's no longer the brash young up-and-comer.
"The Viper" just doesn't seem like a good gimmick or one that really works. I'd advocate something like one of HHH's old heel gimmicks, cause I think that'd fit best.

Originally Posted by -Raiga-

I myself am one of the few who like the idea of the Guest hosts, its just too bad they are handling it in the wrong way. Certainly hosts who have nothing to do with wrestling or even remotely watch it doesn't help. But I think the problem is that people watch wrestling to get into the storylines and forget about what else is going on. Then once someone from the real world comes in it sort of ruins what they had going. However thats just my personal opinion.

Gotta say I want the idea to end. It does interrupt the flow of storylines, instead of a steady flowing storyline it's just a show a week with less connection to others then there was in the past. Plus too many of the guest hosts are basically faces, I think we've only had like 1 heel guest host in the whole run of the concept (Dusty did set up John but he was basically a face for the whole show).

Im really pissed off... Haow in any fucking way can The Miz beat John Morrison? The Miz isn't good enough to tie up Morrisons boots, Morrison will rule to WWE within 5 years, and the Miz will either be sucking in the Tag team division, or completely out of the WWE...

Im really pissed off... Haow in any fucking way can The Miz beat John Morrison? The Miz isn't good enough to tie up Morrisons boots, Morrison will rule to WWE within 5 years, and the Miz will either be sucking in the Tag team division, or completely out of the WWE...

I must confess I thought it was a bit of a curve ball they threw with Miz getting the win rather then Morrison. I expected Smackdown to win Bragging Rights (though I wasn't aware that the "bragging rights" was gained with a 2 out of 3 or better from the inter-brand matches) but I sorta expected the RAW Divas to win with Smackdown winning the male matches.

My main complaint, aside from the typical "Show screws his brand/manager/whatever over for a world title shot" angle (he's done it SO many times), was that the tag match wasn't an elimination tag team match (like the usual Survivor Series ones).
Cause they could have easily done a tag match with 5 on each team or less, instead of this 7 on 7 nonsense that was bound to lead to chaos.

WWE is only going to get worse because they are marketing their product at tweens, try watching TNA if you want to see something remotely decent.

Having looked at WWE and TNA I have to say I prefer the WWE.

TNA has some excellent talent (AJ Styles, Kurt Angle, Bobby Lashley, etc) and turns out some awesome matches but their story-lines are basically at the same level.
In short they're pretty much just like the WWE; you can't really be sure what you're going to get from week to week. I prefer the WWE because I'm more familiar with their storylines and roster.

WWE is only going to get worse because they are marketing their product at tweens, try watching TNA if you want to see something remotely decent.

I personally think that TNA has better in-ring action and wrestlers, but I think that the storylines are worse in TNA, a lot of the time they make no sense, but I'm happy that Angel is no longer a heel, I like him so much, I think he plays 'the good guy' a lot better. Him and Morgon should make a tag-team.

Gotta say I want the idea to end. It does interrupt the flow of storylines, instead of a steady flowing storyline it's just a show a week with less connection to others then there was in the past. Plus too many of the guest hosts are basically faces, I think we've only had like 1 heel guest host in the whole run of the concept (Dusty did set up John but he was basically a face for the whole show).

I agree with you completely, it does need to end, I just thought the idea HAD potential. If they just stick with WWE legends for hosts like Dibiase and Dusty I think they could make it great, but Jeremy Piven won't cut it.

Also keep in mind that Sgt. Slaughter put on one of the best heel performances when they were in canada. And, if it really counts I suppose Jeremy piven did a heel turn on Cena when he said he was a fan of orton and "attacked" cena.

I personally think that TNA has better in-ring action and wrestlers, but I think that the storylines are worse in TNA, a lot of the time they make no sense, but I'm happy that Angel is no longer a heel, I like him so much, I think he plays 'the good guy' a lot better. Him and Morgon should make a tag-team.

I don't agree with better in ring action, but maybe wrestlers. The reason I disagree with in ring action is just that, there is too much action. There really isn't a well built flow in a match like you see in WWE or PWG. The wrestlers perform some crazy moves for seemingly no reason. However I just watched TNA for the first time last week in a few monthes and I have to say their idea for Desmond Wolfe was great, and has me much more excited for Nigel mcguiness than I would have if he went to wwe like originally planned.

Not completely, he put over the younger guys in the beginning of the show. However later in the show after he was attacked by Desmond wolfe he called him out sort of reverting to a heel. Although given the way they handled it the TNA today should probably have a follow-up that may make him a full face.

Of course tonights TNA is taped so they can't change it, but they might need angle to be a heel for next weeks TNA when Hulk Hogan debuts.

I agree with you completely, it does need to end, I just thought the idea HAD potential. If they just stick with WWE legends for hosts like Dibiase and Dusty I think they could make it great, but Jeremy Piven won't cut it.

Yeah now if there were more WWE Legends or Alumina as the guest hosts, occasionally intermixed with some people who aren't from a WWE background.
But they should check if the guys are actually good on the mic, like this week the nascar hosts were horrid mic wise, and if that's the case you lose so much.

Originally Posted by -Raiga-

Also keep in mind that Sgt. Slaughter put on one of the best heel performances when they were in canada. And, if it really counts I suppose Jeremy piven did a heel turn on Cena when he said he was a fan of orton and "attacked" cena.

Well I was thinking of Piven as the heel guest host cause of how he treated Cena.
The WWE plays that US vs Canada thing, turning Canadians who're normally heels into faces for a night or two when they're in Canada and turning American faces into heels while in Canada. So I wouldn't really say Slaughter was a heel in that show.

Originally Posted by -Raiga-

I don't agree with better in ring action, but maybe wrestlers. The reason I disagree with in ring action is just that, there is too much action. There really isn't a well built flow in a match like you see in WWE or PWG. The wrestlers perform some crazy moves for seemingly no reason. However I just watched TNA for the first time last week in a few monthes and I have to say their idea for Desmond Wolfe was great, and has me much more excited for Nigel mcguiness than I would have if he went to wwe like originally planned.

I think TNA produces about the same amount of great matches as the WWE does, maybe a couple more ever now and then.

For my mind their story-lines often aren't as good as the WWE's, within matches and outside of them too - ie the Abyss vs Doctor Stevie is pretty dull in my opinion.

If they are not going to get Wrestling Legends, then at least get someone that can string 2 words together, the two guys from Nascar they could hardly speak English, let alone learn the lines needed to be a GM. It was annoying especially at the start where one of them called Kofi Kingstin Kofi Johnson...

On TNA:

I think that the TNA in-ring moves are entertaining, but you do get the occasionally explosive move from nowhere.

Just cause it sucks for you doesn't mean it sucks for everyone. I personally think it's awesome, if you ask me, the promos were way backer back then, but the action is the ring has never been better. It is amazing watching guys like Rey Mysterio, Chris Jerico, Kofi Kingston, Evan Bourne, watching them fly around, super awesome.

But, I agree with the guest host thing, only the wrestling legends were actually good at it.

Nice example you have there, it really proves your point... Just because it doesn't have PEOPLE like the rock and stone cold, doesn't mean that those people have been replaced by WRESTLERS. I won't say that the writing is all that good for wrestling compared to before, but its in ring work is truly something to behold.

My sister is obsessed with it. It's so tedious and boring. Same fights, same heroes. *cough*JOHNCENA*cough*

Exactly, you just proved your own point wrong. You say that John Cena is tedious, yet for someone that barely watches wrestling you know who he is. Simply because with out a doubt he is the most current new star the WWE has produced.

It sucks now?

Now?

That's all I have to say.

Too bad its all you had to say, because you didn't really prove anything with your witty comment. I guess if your someone who doesn't like to see enticing storylines(back in the day at any rate), and a rise from small momentum to high momentum like almost anything entertaining in life, I can see why it sucked forever.

Dang, you beat me to it. To be honest, was it ever exciting?

Man, if you weren't even excited by the rock or stone cold, you must be REALLY hard to entertain.

Than again it seems like your one of 40 people in this thread with their heads so far up their **** they don't realize that if they don't like something it doesn't mean it sucks.

[QUOTE=-Raiga-;10720341]Nice example you have there, it really proves your point... Just because it doesn't have PEOPLE like the rock and stone cold, doesn't mean that those people have been replaced by WRESTLERS. I won't say that the writing is all that good for wrestling compared to before, but its in ring work is truly something to behold.QUOTE]

Yes, I beleived I wasted a lot of sleep getting up at 7AM just to watch Raw.

There you go.
Well, I barely started watching WWE about a year and half ago so I can't compare it to the attitude era. But right now, except for RAW, Smackdown and ECW have been good and even RAW has started to improve which is a shame since I can't see it every week now.