I liked all three of the guys the eagles got with their first three picks, but I don't like the Foles pick and I still think that team has some crippling flaws as they're still going to get run all over by good running teams. There's a lot of pressure on Demeco Ryan to turn that run d around and their DL is still pretty small, great at getting after the passer and fast as all hell, but relatively small. Not saying they should've taken Brockers or trade higher for Poe, but despite liking a lot of the guys they drafted something about this draft bothers me.

Granted the giants draft bothers me a little as well because I wasn't a big Randle fan before the draft and our OL may be to bad to take advantage of our deadly collection of RBs now that Wilson is joining Bradshaw and Scott.

Claiborne will help Dallas a lot and Crawford could be a really nice addition, but Dallas to still has the same problems they did coming into the draft, namely poor coverage from their safeties, a lack of DL talent and a very unproven IOL. So they to got good players, but also didn't do enough to bolster their weaknesses for me to love their draft.

And then there's the Redskins...

Eagles >/= Giants > Cowboys > Redskins

__________________
BK

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcheTen

JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.

Haha I love all of you guys dismissing the Redskins draft after RG3 just because most of the guys werent internet sensations. Shanny and Allen snagged a few really great fits with Lerribus and Compton and filled a definite need at ILB with Keenan Robinson. Following FA the Skins biggest needs were clearly OLine depth which was obviously the focus. And oh yea...they drafted RG3...

Haha I love all of you guys dismissing the Redskins draft after RG3 just because most of the guys werent internet sensations. Shanny and Allen snagged a few really great fits with Lerribus and Compton and filled a definite need at ILB with Keenan Robinson. Following FA the Skins biggest needs were clearly OLine depth which was obviously the focus. And oh yea...they drafted RG3...

I think the biggest issue people have with the Skins draft is centered around drafting a second QB. It was an absolute waste of a pick for the franchise. I read an article yesterday and it made perfect sense. They are going to give 95% of the reps to RGIII for the next few years so even if they were drafting Cousins specifically for trade bait in a year or two. Every team is going to know his development will be stunted at this level.

The rationale makes sense to reaquire picks in the future. But the poor kid will not get as much of an opportunity to improve as say, Schaub did with Atlanta.

Anyway. Back onto homer matters. I have also read a couple of reviews of NFC East drafts and with the exception of the ESPN NFC East blogger who hated our draft for giving up a pick. Consensus seems to rate the Cowboys as a very good draft. I like our draft for different reasons. But I don't really think it was a great draft yet. Crawford is a prospect at best. I like our 4th and 5th round picks but they will be lucky to make an impact this year. And Wilber will have to improve to overtake Spencer's spot.

It seems to be more of a future draft as opposed to a NOW draft. And we haven't been very good at developing drafted talent.(UDFA talent yeah... but drafted talent... not so much)

I hate to admit it but the f*cking Eagles did the best job of filling needs. A lot of that is acquiring DeMeco Ryans, a former DMVP, at ILB. Last yr. teams ran all over them & Vick couldn't play catchup. I think Kendricks, Cox & Ryans will shore up that porous run defense.

I agree about the Skins, they should have gotten RG3 more more help. They followed their tradition of mortgaging their future for him, & if he goes down it's Sexy Rexy Grossman's turn to get pummeled. Cousins my find himself playing if that's the case, & if it is God help him. Their scary defense will keep them in games but I don't see them contending for the NFCE title.

I think the biggest issue people have with the Skins draft is centered around drafting a second QB. It was an absolute waste of a pick for the franchise. I read an article yesterday and it made perfect sense. They are going to give 95% of the reps to RGIII for the next few years so even if they were drafting Cousins specifically for trade bait in a year or two. Every team is going to know his development will be stunted at this level.

The rationale makes sense to reaquire picks in the future. But the poor kid will not get as much of an opportunity to improve as say, Schaub did with Atlanta.

I disagree completely. Kyle Orton just got paid like $10m to be a backup. Every team in this league understands the importance of having a quality backup quarterback and it's even more important when your quarterback is mobile. The media is 100% blowing this draft pick out of proportion. The staff has been very clear that Cousins was drafted to be a backup. A mid-round pick on a backup is absolutely standard in this league. I'd rather draft a promising quarterback with good value in the 4th then overspend unnecessary money on a backup through free agency. Griffin knows what he was brought here to do. Cousins knows what he was drafted to do. A lot of Redskins fans wanted and assumed we would draft 2 QBs this year. With all the hype around this Cousins pick you'd think we drafted them both in the first round...

If we had taken a QB in the 6th or 7th would it have been as big a deal? How about when that prospect ended up being terrible and then next year we have to draft another late round prospect or overpay a FA? And then the cycle continues...What do you think they should have taken in the 4th round for "more help"?? We needed OLine depth and we got 3 guys that Shanahan is very high on that he feels fit his scheme really well. We brought in WRs, we have two TEs already, and we already filled the roster with young RBs in last years draft...

I disagree completely. Kyle Orton just got paid like $10m to be a backup. Every team in this league understands the importance of having a quality backup quarterback and it's even more important when your quarterback is mobile. The media is 100% blowing this draft pick out of proportion. The staff has been very clear that Cousins was drafted to be a backup. A mid-round pick on a backup is absolutely standard in this league. I'd rather draft a promising quarterback with good value in the 4th then overspend unnecessary money on a backup through free agency. Griffin knows what he was brought here to do. Cousins knows what he was drafted to do. A lot of Redskins fans wanted and assumed we would draft 2 QBs this year. With all the hype around this Cousins pick you'd think we drafted them both in the first round...

If we had taken a QB in the 6th or 7th would it have been as big a deal? How about when that prospect ended up being terrible and then next year we have to draft another late round prospect or overpay a FA? And then the cycle continues...What do you think they should have taken in the 4th round for "more help"?? We needed OLine depth and we got 3 guys that Shanahan is very high on that he feels fit his scheme really well. We brought in WRs, we have two TEs already, and we already filled the roster with young RBs in last years draft...

There is a distinct difference between Kyle Orton(A league veteran with over 30 NFL starts) and Kirk Cousins(an NFL rookie picked in the 4th round and going to a team that will not give him enough reps during practice to actually improve.). Thus if you honestly believe the line they are toeing, which is that they drafted Cousins to be a "quality" backup then how can he possibly be a quality backup without being given any opportunity to actually improve. If he's good enough now... Surely he would have been taken sooner then the 4th round(i.e any team with a need for a starting QB would have jumped on him if he was already ready to be a quality backup)

The skins need Offensive line help... Badly. A rookie QB after already mortgaging your future on RGIII is a wasted pick. You could have taken any QB off the free agents market and that would have been a better option.

That's just my personal opinion though. Obviously we both differ on what is the best strategy in your situation.

The only problem I have with the Eagles is their front 7 is still so small. Yes, they got better players to fill up that front 7, but all of them are still small defenders. Kendricks is a beast but he's tiny, Ryans I feel is very overrated but even if you like him as a player he's still a small linebacker, I love Cox but he's a 290 lb penetrator, not a bulky run stuffer. Curry is a perfect fit for the wide 9 but again, he's a smaller edge guy.

So I like all the players they got, but they all are still undersized defenders. Which means that front 7 is still vulnerable to the run.

But that defense as a whole should be much improved and I think year 2 under Castillo we see a different more fundamentally sound unit. I would just be a little concerned about the defense being so small.

It's like the Eagles are a team full of elves. Even their offense is small. They're just a small team.

Anyone voting for a team other than the Eagles is just being ridiculous.

It has the potential to be their best draft in their franchise history. The 2 picks that I liked the most were Boykin and Washington. Crazy good value there. I wasn't the biggest Fletcher Cox fan... not even when Cowboys fans wanted him for us. I constantly debated against it. I'm not crowning him to be a Pro Bowl caliber player, that's for sure.

i love how people are saying other teams got good value for some of their picks but when the redskins took cousins its, "well if he was good other teams would of took him earlier!!!" like sure its the redskins and we've sucked majorly but use the same logic for this kind of stuff, please.

I think teams are over-stating the need for a backup QB. A backup QB only helps if your starter is only going to miss one or two games, any more than that any team is going to fall out of contention without their starter unless their starter sucks, in which case they won't be in contention anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigbluedefense

I voted Eagles. I think they easily had the best draft.

The only problem I have with the Eagles is their front 7 is still so small. Yes, they got better players to fill up that front 7, but all of them are still small defenders. Kendricks is a beast but he's tiny, Ryans I feel is very overrated but even if you like him as a player he's still a small linebacker, I love Cox but he's a 290 lb penetrator, not a bulky run stuffer. Curry is a perfect fit for the wide 9 but again, he's a smaller edge guy.

So I like all the players they got, but they all are still undersized defenders. Which means that front 7 is still vulnerable to the run.

But that defense as a whole should be much improved and I think year 2 under Castillo we see a different more fundamentally sound unit. I would just be a little concerned about the defense being so small.

It's like the Eagles are a team full of elves. Even their offense is small. They're just a small team.

The Eagles had a great draft, but I'm with you completely, despite liking a lot of the players they drafted, they didn't really bolster their weakness, they're still tiny on defense and dependent on the big play offensively. Not really sure its fair to hold that against a draft, but this philosophy of ignoring beefing up in favor of speed everytime is responsible for the current issues with that team and their drafting as a whole has played a large part of that, so continuing in that vein gets downgraded in my eyes. Yeah, you're picking good players, but if it's leading to the same roster-wide problems is it really still great drafting?

IMO all 4 teams helped themselves, the Skins a little less than the other teams because they've mortgaged their future on a QB who takes a lot of punishment and doesn't have a great offense to make it easier for him while he learns. But I really feel like the Eagles, Giants and Cowboys drafts are very similar. I voted for the giants cause i'm a homer, but I don't think any of these drafts stands above the rest by any significant margin.

__________________
BK

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcheTen

JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.

i love how people are saying other teams got good value for some of their picks but when the redskins took cousins its, "well if he was good other teams would of took him earlier!!!" like sure its the redskins and we've sucked majorly but use the same logic for this kind of stuff, please.

*shrug* QBs get pushed up draft boards in a way other positions don't. It's why guys with deep and massive flaws like Weeden, Osweiler and Wilson got picked in the first, second and third rounds, respectively. So while I don't think that logic makes sense to criticize Counsins, especially when there's so much other stuff to criticize, it makes sense when talking about the general value of QBs. If a QB can't get a team to fall in love with him enough to take him the first two days, he's usually a serious long shot to even become a quality backup outside of the best developmental situations.

BTW I think the Foles pick sucked to, since I think both Foles and Cousins just aren't going to be good NFL QBs, so wasting picks on them isn't a good move, especially for a team like the Redskins that have put themselves deep in the hole pick-wise. They can't afford to be being cute when they could be getting good contributors.

__________________
BK

Quote:

Originally Posted by AcheTen

JPP is a better and more productive player than Brandon Graham

Quote:

Originally Posted by abaddon41_80

Is Shaun Hill a top 10 QB? Definitely not. Is he a top 20 one? Almost certainly.

i love how people are saying other teams got good value for some of their picks but when the redskins took cousins its, "well if he was good other teams would of took him earlier!!!" like sure its the redskins and we've sucked majorly but use the same logic for this kind of stuff, please.

Actually read the entire passage in context.

If the kid was good enough to be a quality backup with ZERO reps in practice for the Skins. Then surely any of the QB needy franchises floating around the NFL would have picked him up to try and develop him further as a starting QB before the Skins drafted him.

If you voted for anyone other than the Eagles you are a blatant homer. Just FYI.

Eagles > Cowboys = Giants > Redskins

Not sure on the understanding that the Cowboys ignored their coverage units. They upgraded from Elam to Pool at FS. They upgraded from Newman to Carr. They upgraded from Scandrick to the best defensive prospect in the draft in Claiborne. -_- Aside from drafting the elusive, and in this draft fictional, true centerfielder to ball-hawk in the they pretty much nailed it.

When I look at the giants draft I see a lot of guys that the team sees as guys with higher ceilings with the exception of Kuhn who I feel maxed himself out. I really don't like how giants fans went from hating the pick to now endorsing it whole-heartedly. We're way too judgmental.

I think its pretty clear what the giants wanted to do in this draft, and for them to say it wasn't need involved is kindof dumb. You follow your board and BPA could be need-affected. You're going to be a little biased if you have a major hole at RB and evaluate guys and when comparing them position-wise you will probably push a guy who you likely should have a little lower up to a higher slot just because of it. I don't think that we had Martin higher than Wilson at all, and from the experience of a giant fan I understand why we would push wilson up our board. LeSean McCoy kills us, Helu killed us, Fred Jackson killed us....you get the picture? We realize that the league is shifting to the speedy versatile backs that eat up yardage and extend the passing options thus extending the field that the defense has to cover.

All things aside, we cut Brandon Jacobs for a reason. This dancing **** in the backfield, even by Bradshaw, is so unnecessary sometimes. David Wilson usually runs hard and even if there isn't a hole he gets a few yards (yes there are some exceptions but a lot of those times there were defenders in the backfield as he got the ball). His OL at VT wasn't really great, especially in the open field, often running away from blocks that would spring him for less immediate defenders. He has a lot to learn, but I don't think receiving should be something too questionable. He is actually pretty apt in that area, underrated.

The only players that I see making an impact in the first year are Wilson and Randle (maybe Hosley), but thats just me. All the other players will be backups.

I dont get all the over the top love for the Eagles draft. Yes, I like the Fletcher Cox move a lot. Cox fills a need on the interior oline but Im not sure he really helps that much with their issues stopping the run. Mychal Kendricks is a solid prospect but far from a sure thing. He is a capable tackler but not necessarily a playmaker. I have never been a fan of Vinny Curry as a prospect. I think Foles is terrible. Boykin is undersized but otherwise a decent value. Dennis Kelly has a long way to go refining his technique before he is ready to contribute. McNutt has disappeared against top competition and will probably be the 4th WR on the depth chart for a long time. Brandon Washington should provide decent depth over the years and I'm not even sure Bryce Brown will make the roster. Was it a good draft? Sure. Was it above and beyond the best draft in the division and one of the best drafts in the league? No.

I voted for the Eagles, though I did like the Giants draft as well. Cowboys draft was not that great to me. I like Claiborne a lot, but giving up a second will hurt the team, outside of Crawford and Hanna (I like Hanna a lot), there aren't any guys I like all that much, and they didn't get much in terms of potential impact starters outside of Claiborne and Crawford, IMO.

The Redskins got RG3, but why do so many poeple look past that they gave up their next two first rounders and their second rounder? I know they spend money like crazy, but RG3 is going to need more help than the incredibly overpriced Free Agents that get brought in and usually do very little for them. Losing those three valuable picks are huge. I love RG3, but the Redskins will need to replenish talent outside of free agency, and losing out on four players (since they traded this second rounder) that could make an impact on your team, and grow with RG3, will hurt. Then they exacerbate it by drafting Cousins, who is really in a ****** situation, no matter how you look at it. They got a great player in RG3, but they need to dial back how much he's under the public microscope and do everything they can to get him help.

I like the Giants draft, not a huge huge Wilson fan, but he's got tools to work with. I was a big Reuben Randle fan, he shouldn't have been available for their pick in the second. I'm not sure how he's going to fit into the offense totally, but he's smart and will learn quickly. If the Giants can retain Nicks and Cruz, in two years, that is the top trifecta of WRs in the league, and not even really all that close (unless something else happens in those years). Hosley and Robinson are risk/reward picks, and I expect one of them to work out, if not both. If I had to bet on on, I'd actally bet on Robinson, not really a big Hosley fan. Then some solid additions to the OL/DL depth, that will most likely find a spot on the roster, or at least the practice squad.

As for the Eagles, I expected Poe as a clogger, but its obvious the emphasis is almost strictly on generating pressure in the backfield as much as possible. Cox is going to do great in the Wide 9 and will provide an additional interior push right away. And with time, will gain more of an anchor as well. Kendricks was one of my favorite players in the draft, I screamed when I saw he was the pick (same with Curry too), mostly because I thought he was a long shot to be picked, based on our draft history. I get the questions about height, but he plays different than our previous undersized LBs. Guy must have watermelon balls, gave good OL prospects many issues in his career. Curry, I liked, not as much as Kendricks, but I like him a lot, lots of potential, and will be an immediate contributor to the DE rotation, I'd assume more at RE. The last time the Eagles had a second round pick who I liked, that was an Eagles fan, was Shady. Curry is going to come in and contribute, and with Washburn, he will maximize his potential.

The Foles pick threw me off, though honestly, I can't say I'm surprised. He's got tools to work with and if he can get coached up, there is potential. Not huge on drafting him where he was, but for my sake, I can afford to pretend we drafted Boykin here, Wahsington in the fourth, and then Foles. Looks a lot better, and the value is still good, but I don't mind the pick at all when I see how the rest of the draft went. Boykin I like, will compete for a returner spot, and will have a legitimate opportunity to win the Nickel spot right away. Washington was also great vlaue, got lost at tackle last year, but has eventual starter potential, especially with Mudd on his ass. Not a big fan of the Kelly pick, not sure how good of a fit he is in our blocking scheme, honestly, doesn't seem athletic enough. Looks like he'll be our fourth OT if he makes the roster (might get practice squadded or IRed). This is really the one pick I could've done without. McNutt, is a guy who I like a lot, lots of potential, not necessarily athletically (I think he's just about as athletic as he's going to get), but he is such a great fit in our offense, and a great compliment to our other receiving options. I think he'll easily get the #4 WR spot and in time may take over the #3. Brynce Brown is a sheer potential pick, and with your 7th rounder, I'm ok with it. If he sucks, cut him, it won't be hard to defend at all.

All in all when you look at each teams draft, I look for immediate, impact starters first, immediate solid starters, potential developmental (impact) starters, significant role players, key ST contributors, and then solid role players. If I look at all these drafts I'd break it down into this...

The Redskins got an immediate impact starter in RG3, got immediate (potential) starters in LeRibous, and Robinson, though I don't expect either to be impact starters. Gettis is a developmental guy (not that far off, IMO) who could be a starter down the line as well. Outside of that they have drafted either role players (some who could be very good) or special teams players. Basically, the draft is RG3 here.

The Cowboys got an immediate impact starter in Claiborne, a potential impact starter in Crawford (role player early), and a potential future starters in Wilbur and Hanna (role players early). Coale will be a good role player as well, but I don't expect anything more than a #3 out of him, which, in that offense, is still valuable. Johnson and McSurdy are nothing more than role players or ST guys.

The Giants got a potential future starter (initally a role/rotation guy) in Wilson. They have a potential developmental impact starter in Randle (only if Cruz or Nicks leaves), who will be a key role player right away. A potential starter in Hosley (not anything special, though, IMO) and a potential impact starter in Robinson (developmental). The rest are depth/role/ST players, but what I would call a very good draft, lots of potential impact players here.

The Eagles have a future potential impact starter in Cox (initially a role/rotational player) and Kendricks (not impact right away, starter, off the bat). They drafted a (somewhat) developmental, potential starter (not impact, if I'm being honest) in Curry. An immediate impact role player (returner, Nickle) , maybe future starter in Boykin (also not impact). Potential impact role player in McNutt, potential future starter in Washington, and some developmental depth guys in Foles, Kelly, and Brown.

When you look at these drafts, its about which team got the most overall potential impact out of their draft class, to me, The Redskins are behind the Dallas by a decent margin, who is behind the Giants, by a slightly lesser margin, who are slightly behind the Eagles, by an even less margin. The Eagles and Giants got a lot of potentially high impact players, while both drafts have a relatively high talent floor.

The Redskins got an immediate impact starter in RG3, got immediate (potential) starters in LeRibous, and Robinson, though I don't expect either to be impact starters. Gettis is a developmental guy (not that far off, IMO) who could be a starter down the line as well. Outside of that they have drafted either role players (some who could be very good) or special teams players. Basically, the draft is RG3 here.

I actually think Compton might have the best chance to start of all 3 OLineman drafted. I totally agree that Gettis is more developmental though. I wouldn't be surprised by the midway point to see RG3, Leribous, and Compton starting with Robinson rotating and getting a lot of playing time. The DBs to me are definitely special teams guys but the other guy I think could eventually start it Minnifield. If his knee checks out and rehabs well enough I think he absolutely might be starting at nickle by year end.