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Very sorry about your co-worker/friend.. Not to hijack the thread, and beside its tragically pre-mature nature, that's definitely the way I would like to go through. Just drop with little pain.

Back to MJ.. that Deepak Chopra, was he a physician of his at some points? Spiritual adviser or just friend? If he was MJ's doctor wouldn't it be in some sort of violation of confidentiality to talk so openly about a patient's supposed addiction to painkillers?

i don't think Chopra was his personal physician in the interview he never says he gave Mr. Jefferson the oxycontin he just states that he asked for them. Drug seeking behavior that is what addicts do.

Everyone in life has issues and problems. That's being human. Only difference between a saint and a sinner is if one can hide them dark secrets better than the guy next door to seem more perfect.

MJ didn't have that luxury with constant scrutiny. He was flawed in conventional eyes but he was blessed more too musically and in charitable humanity. He holds the Guinness record for the only celebrity to actively support 39 charities worldwide, including HIV/AIDS. I mentioned this to put things in perspective. Listen to powerful insightful songs like, Man In The Mirror, Black or White, The Earth Song, to understand how he uses music to evoke a desperate call to mankind for change and inner reflection to avoid its own destruction.

And it's offensive and redundant to say that a man from china cannot make comments on American culture. It's as good as saying that only chinese from china can eat rice or that only the British can speak English. Anyone with an objective mind and better exposure to any culture and topic can comment. Living in one's race dun make one more culturally aware or exclusive to all thereof.

..And it's offensive and redundant to say that a man from china cannot make comments on American culture.

Thanks for that Merlin but I think I know what Ms. Philicia mean that I don't think that's an issue.. (suffice to say he knows me enough that I grew up in the Bay Area and speak with a thick American accent).. but your point is still valid..

And it's offensive and redundant to say that a man from china cannot make comments on American culture.

Redundant?

That aside... do you mean that it's not respectful to speak ill of the passed? Sorry, but just because someone is dead doesn't automatically bestow sainthood on them. Maybe MJ did something for pop culture that means something important somewhere in the grand scheme of things, but, sorry.... my opinion of whether someone lived an ethical life doesn't change just because of death, which, ultimately happens to everyone. So, everyone in the world, in your view, will eventually qualify to have a halo of holiness around them. Nah.. not gonna happen.

In my opinion, MJ did not really represent what was good in American culture and I don't find myself mourning, waxing nostalgic, or finding ways to jump of the let's-find-something-nice-to-say-about-crazy-people bandwagon.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

In my opinion, MJ did not really represent what was good in American culture and I don't find myself mourning, waxing nostalgic, or finding ways to jump of the let's-find-something-nice-to-say-about-crazy-people bandwagon.

Which just sounds like you are jumping on the let's deride the mentally ill bandwagon.

Surely anyone can see that Michael Jackson had mental health issues and that many of his daemons were not of his own making. Here, of all places, I would have thought that people would have some basic understanding of just what that can do to you - because I have never met a single person living with HIV who isn't in some significant way mentally affected by it - but obviously I was wrong.

Modified to add:

Out of interest, which particular good aspect of "American culture" would you rather have represented? And what exactly is it about him that you feel reflects so badly on "American culture" that he isn't worthy of a little respect? Or is it just that you don't think the mentally ill are worthy of any admiration?

And it's offensive and redundant to say that a man from china cannot make comments on American culture. It's as good as saying that only chinese from china can eat rice or that only the British can speak English. Anyone with an objective mind and better exposure to any culture and topic can comment. Living in one's race dun make one more culturally aware or exclusive to all thereof.

It was a joke between friends -- and trust me, I could made it lots more offensive. Maybe you need to take a break from the internet and relax a little.

So, everyone in the world, in your view, will eventually qualify to have a halo of holiness around them. Nah.. not gonna happen.

Please, please, by all means. Since it seems you have the expert hold on such matters, I'll leave the topic of disrespect for the dead squarely in your lap. Dancing on anyone's grave any time soon? zzz

It was a joke between friends -- and trust me, I could made it lots more offensive. Maybe you need to take a break from the internet and relax a little.

It's great you guys share telepathic jokes between yourselves but it does not diminish the inference it was made out to be. Whatever. And as a sign of respect, age before beauty; you can take the first step to that break you suggested. Have fun ya?

Here, of all places, I would have thought that people would have some basic understanding of just what that can do to you - because I have never met a single person living with HIV who isn't in some significant way mentally affected by it - but obviously I was wrong.

Took me a while but over the years, I too realized that the obvious is not always so. Sometimes one needs to grab the bulls by the horns whenever they appear. But thanks for your insight.

One of my very good friends was born and raised in Gary, IN, and went to school with MJ's cousin. She said, just as the movie about the family showed, the father was very cruel. Apparently he used to tell Michael to dance fast, that there were people in the audience with guns who were going to shoot him if he didn't. Also, according to her, when Michael got older and saw any part of his father in him, he had plastic surgery to remove the likeness.

Now, my friend is no liar, but whether this info is 100% accurate or not, I couldn't swear by.

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I've never killed anyone, but I frequently get satisfaction reading the obituary notices.-Clarence Darrow

One of my very good friends was born and raised in Gary, IN, and went to school with MJ's cousin. She said, just as the movie about the family showed, the father was very cruel. Apparently he used to tell Michael to dance fast, that there were people in the audience with guns who were going to shoot him if he didn't. Also, according to her, when Michael got older and saw any part of his father in him, he had plastic surgery to remove the likeness.

Now, my friend is no liar, but whether this info is 100% accurate or not, I couldn't swear by.

I've heard horror stories about the father, MJ himself has talked about being beaten with a belt (the part with the buckle). It makes sense to me that the plastic surgery would be a reaction to the father as opposed to his race.

The estate is rumored to be $400 million in debt. When Elvis died it was not that bad but similar. Except with Elvis, his only heir, Lisa Marie (ex- Mrs. Michael Jackson, lol) had a legal guardian, Priscilla and it's Priscilla who is credited with turning Elvis's estate around financially and making her daughter a very very rich girl. Michael's children don't seem to have a Priscilla.

It's possible he had a will in which he named someone as legal guardian of the kids, someone who would also be capable of bringing that estate back in the black (lol, that's an accounting term, pun INTENDED!)

MJ was a pitiful and tragic character, particularly in the last years of his life, but he was incredibly talented, and I'll always remember that he befriended and helped Ryan White at a time when there was little but fear and ostracization being offered from the rest of society.

One of my very good friends was born and raised in Gary, IN, and went to school with MJ's cousin. She said, just as the movie about the family showed, the father was very cruel. Apparently he used to tell Michael to dance fast, that there were people in the audience with guns who were going to shoot him if he didn't. Also, according to her, when Michael got older and saw any part of his father in him, he had plastic surgery to remove the likeness.

Now, my friend is no liar, but whether this info is 100% accurate or not, I couldn't swear by.

Hmmm... I've heard that father/plastic surgery theory before myself. Is your friend quite certain that she/he didn't swipe that from an unauthorized biography?

i always knew he was gay! GAY! GAY ! GAY!(not that there's anything wrong with that)

Not so fast (the gays don't want to claim him!)...and not so simple. The problem with insisting MJ was gay (despite the fact he never identified himself as such) is that it oversimplifies his particular demons. And of course, it gives ammunition to everybody who thinks all gay men are interested in under age boys.

The "psychology" of someone interested in children sexually is very different than simply being "gay" or "straight.'' Many people out there think all gay men are after their boys in order to "recruit" them, etc. They'll point to MJ and say, "look, there's proof."

MJ was a tortured soul and I don't say that judgmentally, all anybody had to do was look at him and know the slightest bit about him, it was plain as day.

Ok, Miss Thang, I read the dang article. Mikey being gay? Yeah, I could see it. He should've taken tips from R.Kelly and came out the closet. Yeah, bad Queen, I know but I have never been known to be a follower. Though the story still does not change my opinion of him. But only God/dess and Mikey knows the truth. And we all have our skeletons in the closet, welll I suspect a few have damn cemetaries(sp?)

I very much doubt that the Daily Mail has ever printed an article in which anywhere close to half the claims could be thought of as 'true', let alone fair and balanced .. unless you have swastika tattoos and refer to Hitler as Adolf the Great

I very much doubt that the Daily Mail has ever printed an article in which anywhere close to half the claims could be thought of as 'true', let alone fair and balanced .. unless you have swastika tattoos and refer to Hitler as Adolf the Great

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

You Brit whingers obviously didn't see who wrote the article, or researched his past work.

UK AIDSmeds posters = fail

Listen, Miss Philicia von Stumphenhosen, I didn't even read the article. I still have a little pride left and wouldn't pollute my senses with anything written in the Daily Hate-Mail. I bet it managed to get a dig in about Islam somewhere though .. they always do

Oh wow. Did you hear how ole Joe Jackson appeared at the BET awards and plugged his new company? How low class. I also heard that Katherine is already calling friends to find out where Michael stashed cash under the carpets.

Oh wow. Did you hear how ole Joe Jackson appeared at the BET awards and plugged his new company? How low class. I also heard that Katherine is already calling friends to find out where Michael stashed cash under the carpets.

There's something seriously wrong with Joe Jackson. He appears to be relishing the moment.

His last will was discovered and supposedly he left nothing to his father. Talk about a diss from the grave. I have this mental picture of Michael giving his father a crotch grab to his face from the great beyond.

His last will was discovered and supposedly he left nothing to his father. Talk about a diss from the grave. I have this mental picture of Michael giving his father a crotch grab to his face from the great beyond.

It's definitely only a symbolic act. The estate is estimated to be $400 million in debt. Sure, there is the potential to earn that much and more but it would take years and by that time Joe and Michael will have already met in heaven and settled the score.

To quote Elton John and Bernie Taupin: "It's a sad sad situation....and it's getting more and more absurd."

It's definitely only a symbolic act. The estate is estimated to be $400 million in debt. Sure, there is the potential to earn that much and more but it would take years and by that time Joe and Michael will have already met in heaven and settled the score.

To quote Elton John and Bernie Taupin: "It's a sad sad situation....and it's getting more and more absurd."

He owns a huge stake in sony music publishing. Once that is sold and all of his assets are accounted for it is speculated that it will put his estate about 200 million in the black .

Now it seems the kids are not his, maybe not hers, biologically, but maybe his dermatolgist's. He never adopted them. WTF?

Michael was a cash cow for that family, but bankrupt himself.

A drug addict, isolated, surrounded by vampires and enablers.

Tricked into concerts he could never sustain physically, to make a lot of money for other people.

Simultaneously on a pedastal but also held in utter contempt.

What a mess he was, but also, what a Rat F*uck he was surronded by. And now it gets worse....

His artisitic achievements were so much bigger and classier than his personal life, his choices over the last 15 years, and this circus around him. He became such a contradiction. Tawdry genius. A fallen angel turned into a zombie.

---------------------

There's a ghost out in the hallTheirs a goul beneath the bedNow it's coming through the wallsNow it's coming down the stairsThen there's screaming in the darkHear the beating of his heartCan you feel it in the airGhosts be hiding everywhere

I'm gonna beExactly what you wanna seeIt's you whose haunting meYour warning meTo be the strangerIn your life

Am I amusing youOr just confusing youAm I the beastYou visualisedAnd if you wanna to seeEccentrialitiesI'll be grotesqueBefore your eyes

Let them all materialise

Is that scary for you baby?Am I scary for you oh?Is it scary for you baby?Is it scary for you?

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

He owns a huge stake in sony music publishing. Once that is sold and all of his assets are accounted for it is speculated that it will put his estate about 200 million in the black .

The estate could definitely be in the black but it could take years. He owns 50% of the Beatles catalog and Sony owns the other 50% but they have leant him alot of money over the years and I've read that they can legally claim his half and own the whole thing based on his debt to them and the only thing keeping them from doing it was that they were afraid that Michael's fans would boycott all Sony products, they did not want to rock the boat, PR-wise.

It remains to be seen who will be in charge financially of his estate, making all the strategic decisions necessary for it to be in the black. As mentioned in an earlier post, with Elvis, Priscilla was largely responsible for turning things around, since she was the biological mother of Elvis's heir, Lisa Marie, but with Michael it's not so clear cut.

I'm afraid MJ's artistic legacy will soon be very soiled indeed by the rat f"ckers, including his own family. A jackson family tribute tour?!! SAVE US GOD from that.

His wealth, if there is any, will be squandered. Its a pity the guy didn't have a better handle on his financial affairs -- he could have left a fortune to a foundation that would have done good works in his name. One begins to believe the worst of the worst case scenarios explaining the last 15 years -- tired spent morally corrupt man (but artistic genius) surrounded by vultures.

OK, I guess I've made my point many times over. I dread what's coming. "MJ's death" is going to be the trashiest most vulgar media event in some time.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Well, about that footage. It was being shot to be edited for the concerts in London. MJ was supposed to only do aobut 10-15 minutes of live anything in those London concerts. The rest was gonna be video and onstate spectacle. Anyway, thats what I read. So that "rehearsal" footage might not be much more than posing and what not. If you see the pictures of him at that rehearsal, he looks dreadful. Supposedly, he couldn't sing a note anymore. But, then, other people say the opposite... Wait and see.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Apparently there's very good footage of his recent rehearsals for the This Is It tour and that will all be compiled into a movie or DVD or TV special.

It's not actually a bad idea if it's done right.

He looked awful on the parts I saw -- 50 year old anorexic shuffling around the state while the back up dancers are doing all of the work. They were showing the same 3 minute clip over and over and over last night, and I'd assume they released the best footage. The commentators seemed to be going overboard exclaiming that he looked great and fit! At least Madonna, who by the way is the exact same age, goes to the gym everyday and is a fitness fanatic. You have to be to handle multi-country tour dates, especially after the age of 40, much less 50.

This will sound ageist of me, but I really think these performers need to hang it up one they hit 40, at least as touring goes. Nothing wrong with restricting yourself to the recording studio, and maybe doing the odd charity concert, but haven't they make enough money to retire?

it's sad because there will always be that die hard fan that will fork out the cash to see their nostalgic kings of yesteryear bring them back to the good ol' days when really they are just washed up has beens

He looked awful on the parts I saw -- 50 year old anorexic shuffling around the state while the back up dancers are doing all of the work. They were showing the same 3 minute clip over and over and over last night, and I'd assume they released the best footage.

I agree. Though he wasn't in a wheelchair, as previously, so I was a bit surprised to see those 3 minutes. I can't believe the easy ride this guy is getting from the mainstream broadcast news... Seems to me this was either suicide or gross medical mistake, or kinda both... really. Seems to me he was being wrung dry and all those vultures around him should just bow their heads in shame now and GO AWAY.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

This will sound ageist of me, but I really think these performers need to hang it up one they hit 40, at least as touring goes. Nothing wrong with restricting yourself to the recording studio, and maybe doing the odd charity concert, but haven't they make enough money to retire?

Some do continue with some class. Its probably true very few generate the excitement of their youth. Seen a pretty good old Bowie and Dylan, but was it really exciting? no. That 3 minutes of MJ looks really crass, trash, tired and sad. The hyperbole around that London gig was so trashy. Come back, what comeback? No new material in years. At least Madonna drops some decently produced CDs nowadAYS to justify her shaking her skinny butt.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

While I agree that the rehearsal footage was not impressive, I assumed he was just not "giving it his all" since it was, after all, a rehearsal. The whole point of rehearsals is more about knowing your marks and knowing the moves etc., it's not like Michael could or should give in a rehearsal the kind of energy he'd give in a performance.

Whether or not he would have been able to summon the required level of energy for the performance we'll never know.