If you live in AlamedA County in California, you will understand everything is expensive here. I paid for a one bedroom apartment for 1265. Also, my friend was using the heater. Try using your house heater and understand it can be expensive. My parents b4 paid about $500 for their electric bill because it was a cold winter.

Cut the crap. I still don't believe a word of it. I have a washer, dryer, fridge, central air, a bunch of computers and other things using electricity and my last bill was 68 dollars. How cold can it get in Alameda Country? In the winter months alone it seems to be in the 50/60's range[1], when where I live it's usually in the teens/twenties[2] in the winter months. I used to live in LA so I know all about the winters in both southern and northern California.

Why are you getting so offensive. Also, LA is cooler than oakland, Ca. You can do research on that if you dont believe me. Emily, I am not asking you to believe what i say. I am just sharing what I have seen in my life serving Jesus. Also, on the website it stated that if you are christian/unwavering christian, we would love to hear your testimony. If you dont believe me, please look at the main website. If you think I am lying, and then that is what you believe. There is no point of me lying for Jesus. That is just contradictory.

Miracles are never convincing. Which god orchestrated them, there are claims from all religions that miracles occur, so forgive my air of scepticism, but odds are it ain't some magical sky daddy doing little favours. Where are the big favours then? I'm sure world peace and ending starvation in Africa are a hell of a lot more important than one guys rent, or someone's mobile phone. Are you telling the truth is always an issue, so often does the truth become so inflated to create the impression of miracles and can be so willing to accept that explanation without ever looking deeper or for more evidence to try and explain something strange.

Here's the kicker, it wasn't the Christian God helping, it was Allah, best get moving over to Islam!

Jesus is big and if he wants to end starvation and world peace, he can. Each person to him he loves. So a person i minister to is equaly loved to a starving child in Africa.

Guess he must not want to end starvation and achieve world peace, because much of the world has been starving and fighting for a long time.

I would think starving children would be thinking of food first before love.

Faith cures for leprosy are fake! And it is an insult to medical science and people who generously provide the medicines for FREE, as well as the medical personnel who work tirelessly to cure and reduce the disease everywhere, including Mozambique.

From the World Health Organisation:

Quote

Since 1995, WHO provides free MDT for all patients in the world, initially through the drug fund provided by the Nippon Foundation and since 2000, through the MDT donation provided by Novartis and the Novartis Foundation for Sustainable Development.

... snip ....

Over the past 20 years, more than 14 million leprosy patients have been cured, about 4 million since 2000.

STOP your lies for Jesus. If your God exists he deserves people who tell the truth about Him.

If you live in AlamedA County in California, you will understand everything is expensive here. I paid for a one bedroom apartment for 1265. Also, my friend was using the heater. Try using your house heater and understand it can be expensive. My parents b4 paid about $500 for their electric bill because it was a cold winter.

Cut the crap. I still don't believe a word of it. I have a washer, dryer, fridge, central air, a bunch of computers and other things using electricity and my last bill was 68 dollars. How cold can it get in Alameda Country? In the winter months alone it seems to be in the 50/60's range[1], when where I live it's usually in the teens/twenties[2] in the winter months. I used to live in LA so I know all about the winters in both southern and northern California.

Why are you getting so offensive. Also, LA is cooler than oakland, Ca. You can do research on that if you dont believe me. Emily, I am not asking you to believe what i say. I am just sharing what I have seen in my life serving Jesus. Also, on the website it stated that if you are christian/unwavering christian, we would love to hear your testimony. If you dont believe me, please look at the main website. If you think I am lying, and then that is what you believe. There is no point of me lying for Jesus. That is just contradictory.

Faith cures for leprosy are fake! And it is an insult to medical science and people who generously provide the medicines for FREE, as well as the medical personnel who work tirelessly to cure and reduce the disease everywhere, including Mozambique.

From the World Health Organisation:

Quote

Since 1995, WHO provides free MDT for all patients in the world, initially through the drug fund provided by the Nippon Foundation and since 2000, through the MDT donation provided by Novartis and the Novartis Foundation for Sustainable Development.

... snip ....

Over the past 20 years, more than 14 million leprosy patients have been cured, about 4 million since 2000.

STOP your lies for Jesus. If your God exists he deserves people who tell the truth about Him.

That sounds very contradictory. Lying for Jesus. Sure why dont I lie for Jesus so people will believe. If I did not care about the LOrds work, then I would be doing something else.

Why are you getting so offensive. Also, LA is cooler than oakland, Ca. You can do research on that if you dont believe me. Emily, I am not asking you to believe what i say. I am just sharing what I have seen in my life serving Jesus. Also, on the website it stated that if you are christian/unwavering christian, we would love to hear your testimony. If you dont believe me, please look at the main website. If you think I am lying, and then that is what you believe. There is no point of me lying for Jesus. That is just contradictory.

I believe what the website says. I've read the website many times. I am getting offensive because you are blatantly lying right to our::virtual:: faces.

Even still all of California is warmer than all of NY and I still pay MORE for electricity in NY than I did when I lived in California and I've NEVER seen a bill higher than 100 bucks in my entire life.

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"Great moments are born from great opportunities." Herb Brooks

I edit a lot of my posts. The reason being it to add content or to correct grammar/wording. All edits to remove wording get a strike through through the wording.

I've gone through this thread and fixed your quotes. Please make sure the quote tags are arranged properly before hitting the post button. It is best to hit the preview button first to view how your post will look in the thread. It is difficult to follow the discussion when the participants have to search through the quote box to find your reply.

This is Mozambique Africa and not in America. If they were in America, it may have been a different story where they would be taking medications.

Listen my friend, you are making even more things up now. I happen to know quite a lot about Africa, including Mozambique.

This may come as a shock to you but I personally saved many amputees in Africa - without medicine. I did it by lifting landmines and preventing people from becoming amputees in the first place. And with regard to medicines in Africa - sure they don't have as much as they would like but it's a lie to suggest they have none, and that they don't use them for leprosy patients in hospitals. Much of my mine-lifting career was done clearing the way for convoys taking doctors, medicines and aid to people in war zones.

This is Mozambique Africa and not in America. If they were in America, it may have been a different story where they would be taking medications.

I should of read my post better. Good job in getting me there. Dont get me wrong. I seen medications in Africa, but they were like tylenol, Aleve, Ibeprophen, etc. Not the crazy prescribed ones. Thank you for sharing that point though. I will be more slow to speak.

Dont get me wrong. I seen medications in Africa, but they were like tylenol, Aleve, Ibeprophen, etc. Not the crazy prescribed ones. Thank you for sharing that point though. I will be more slow to speak.

AND, you did it again.

You've already been shown in several posts that Africans have access to "crazy" prescribed medicines.

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Not all those who wander are lost; some are buried in my backyard. . .

Wsyderider, do you have any proof of any of your claims that would satisfy a person who thinks critically and does not have blind faith in anything?

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People are 'erroneously confident' in their knowledge and underestimate the odds that their information or beliefs will be proved wrong. They tend to seek additional information in ways that confirm what they already believe. Max Bazenman, Harvard University

Wsyderider, rephrasing "preach" to "show" or "share" doesn't mean you're not doing exactly what the forum rules mean. This is not a blog log. An OP without any clear basis for discussion will be left to rot, closed, or restructured. Or, as in this case, result in the demand that we get something that can be talked about. Right now we don't even have reliable premises to go on, and a conclusion that would be highly questionable if the premises were true.I can confirm the mods here are way more lenient in this regard than they are on computer game forums, btw.

The thing about showing is that it's nothing but, well, showing. You have shown us your interpretation of your experiences. Now what? We have been shown stuff like that a countless number of times, as you have been made aware of. It's formally indistinguishable from a huge number of purportedly supernatural encounters of all religious colors. The reply is always the same: "evidence?"

And then we get told we won't get any since all you wanted to do was "show" and that we're supposed to believe it or not as we please. Alright, you have shown. We have done as we pleased. So ... case closed, can we let this thread die now?Or can we have something to talk about?

« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 06:39:44 AM by Noman Peopled »

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"Deferinate" itself appears to be a new word... though I'm perfectly carmotic with it.-xphobe

I do remember two individuals having elephantitis (their leg looked loke elephant skin and leg was swollen).

Another one of those diseases that a hospital (even in Mozambique) can treat to the point where the patient is well enough to go home - and all with science and medicine, not pretend magic:

Quote

How is Elephantiasis Treated?

"Is elephantiasis curable?" is the most common query regarding the treatment of this disease. Elephantiasis treatment basically, relies on the medications, that can kill the parasite and its larvae. The most commonly used drugs are, albendazole and diethylcarbamazine. These medications have proved to be effective for killing the microfilariae, and also the adult worms. However, in the sub-Saharan Africa, albendazole is used along with ivermectin. Ivermectin is another medication that can kill the microfilariae, though its effect on the adult worms is not very clear. The most common side effects associated with this medication are, fever, myalgia and headache.

For killing the adult worms, diethylcarbamazine is regarded as a better option than ivermectin. Diethylcarbamazine has been found to considerably reduce the size of the enlarged lymph nodes. However, one can experience allergic reactions while taking this drug, for which steroid and antihistamine medications can be required. This side effect is generally, attributed to the destruction of the parasite, as the dying parasitic worms have been found to release certain chemicals, which can produce the allergic reaction. Along with medications, regular cleaning of the affected area can also help to a great extent in controlling the symptoms of elephantiasis. This is probably due to the fact that many times, secondary skin infections can play a very important role in aggravating the symptoms of elephantiasis. So, daily cleaning can help to prevent such secondary infections. Antibiotics such as doxycycline has also shown some promising results for treating elephantiasis.

The treatment for nonfilarial elephantiasis include, wearing shoes that can help to prevent further exposure to the irritants, and wearing elastic bandage. Elastic stocking can too help to manage the swelling and inflammation caused by elephantiasis. Physicians often suggest cleaning the affected area with soap and water, as well as soaking the area in a mixture of water and antiseptic, for the management of nonfilarial elephantiasis. Lastly, surgery can also be performed to reduce elephantiasis, especially elephantiasis of the scrotum. But, for elephantiasis of the trunk or limb, surgery is not very effective.

The success of elephantiasis treatment depends on its early diagnosis and prompt treatment. Though tissue damage is permanent, the swelling can be managed or reduced with appropriate treatment. The non parasitic form of the diseases can be prevented with the help of certain measures like, wearing shoes, that can reduce the exposure to the irritants found in some soil. The symptoms of elephantiasis can sometimes resemble the symptoms of some related lymphatic system diseases like, hereditary lymphedema, filariasis and secondary lymphedema. Therefore, appropriate elephantiasis treatment also depends on accurate diagnosis of the condition.

I really think the money it cost your church to send you to Mozambique and which supports the Ministers who fed you the misinformation about the fake prayer-induced cures after you left could have been far better spent on some real science and/or medicine for people who need care not bibles.

I do missionary work to help in this area. I went to Africa, Mexico, and Philippines.

I don't give a crap what you are doing, that's you're business. You completely - totally - missed the point. I want to know why god plays with cell phones, apartment rent, and electric bills while poor innocent children starve in Africa.

For example, my friend was in the hospital and was not doing good. He had no money for rent. He called me up asking if we can pray because he had no rent money. We prayed and I believed it was paid for.

...

Also, there were times he owed like 100 dollars for the electric bill. He prayed and it would either be free or down to about 15 bucks.

...

Here is another crazy one that is just totally outrageous. One day I dropped my cell phone in my sink. ... I checked my voicemail and the number on my voicemail and phone were two different numbers. That was truly a miraculous sign.

Stop dodging the point. If you keep doing this I'll report you to the moderators, because you do the same thing as most other theists - dodge the hard questions you cannot or will not face up to.

I believe that God truly here our prayers and may and may not answer it. For example, My friend was at the hospital and needed rent money. We prayed and by faith I believe Jesus would pay for it. He called the apartment, and the rent was paid for. Again he called me next month because he had no money. We prayed and he called the apartment up. They mentioned that it was paid for three months. Again he called me after three months and we prayed again. They said call him back next year because he had credit until the end of the year. He did not have to pay rent for a total of 2 years and 3 months. I am a born again christian.

Three points.

1) God clearly has a "soft spot" for your friend. Why are his prayers for the starving in Africa not answered in the same way? Heck, for the homeless in your own country? What is special about you that you have so many prayers granted for things you could fix yourselves?

2) God knows everything. Why does anyone need to pray at all? Surely god already knows what we need? Why did the bills not get paid without your having to ask?

3) As Bereft asked, where DID the money come from? Did the rental company's bank balance suddenly change, as the direct work of god interfering with the bank system? Did you consider that someone else may have been paying?

On that last point.....a few years back, checking my bank statements I discovered that I had been paying for two electric accounts - my own and someone elses. Had I not checked, I may have paid someone else's bill for years without knowing - I may never have found out, but been several hundred pounds down.

Given that that could be the case here.....how do you (as a Christian) feel about the fact that you may have been receiving money from someone who was unaware they were doing it, and for whom the extra expense may have caused problems?

Most likely explanations:1) Parents/siblings/work colleagues/friends know their child/friend is in hospital and one of them takes care of the rent.2) Church member (most are really good people) hears that people are praying for rent money, checks wallet ... finds the cash ... pays the bill. And says nothing about it because that's what really kind people do and quietly enjoys all the excitement about the "miracle". 3) It's all BS.

Least likely explanation:1) Goddidit.2) Bank error.

Wsyderider, you've made an extraordinary claim. The onus is on you to provide the proof. The very least you and your friend can do is track the transactions back to their source - after all you may even find God's bank account.

Jesus is big and if he wants to end starvation and world peace, he can.

So what you're saying is that although jesus can end starvation and make world peace... he choses not to. He has the power to do so and yet he won't end starvation and make world peace.

To me... that just makes him a vile, disgusting prick who in fact doesn't care about us enough.

Allow me to illustrate so you can see why I think this of such a character like this jesus you claim exists:

You walk out to the back of a house. You see a child in a pool and a fat man in a chair.

The fat man is stuck in the chair due to his fat ass and needs help standing up. The child in the pool is drowing and is begging for help while gasping deperately for air.

You have the power to help them both. You can dive into the pool and save the drowning child and then, once the child is safe, you can help the man out of the chair.

Instead, you help the fat-ass get out of the chair and completely ignore the child, letting him drown.

You could have helped the child... but you chose not to for reasons only you would know.

You claim that you love them both equally. You love both the child and the fat man. You expect others to praise you for helping the fat guy even thought you did not help the drowning child. You don't expect anyone to question your reasons.

Excuse me... but not only would I think you were a vile disgusting prick... but I would think anyone who praised you was an idiot.

You sir, are an idiot.

I am so glad there isn't a jesus or a god. I deal with reality buddy. Get with it.

Wsyderider, do you have any proof of any of your claims that would satisfy a person who thinks critically and does not have blind faith in anything?

First and foremost, I appreciate you for not atacking me like others on this forum. To answer your question. No I dont. Even if I did, I believe people on this forum would just brush it off. For example. My pastor prayed for this one person at the hospital. This person attended t \our church. HE had a hairline femur fracture. My pastor went to pray for him at the hospital. When Sunday came, he was all walking at church. My pastor came to him and said, " I thought you were not able to walk." He said, " when you prayed for me I felt better and was able to walk later on." They x-rayed him again and the fracture was completely.

It is going to be my duty not to keep any type of evidence to show any type of supernatural event: x-rays, blood tests, etc. So when I have them, I can share them.

hairline fractures aren't that serious. I believe some people are able to "walk them off" with only mild to medium discomfort without even being in a cast of any kind.

My son, a few months ago, had an injury while playing soccer. The coach said, based on what the sideline physical therapist told him, that they "hoped it was just a fracture". He was told, after xrays, that he had torn ligaments in his ankle, and would be on crutches for at least a month.

The next day, he decided he was sick of the crutches already, so he tried walking around without them, and found it felt fine. Went back to the doctor's the next day, and they could find nothing wrong with him. It baffled everyone.

This, mind you, with no prayer, laying on of hands or, in fact, belief in any sort of deity.