The main reason I'd be interested in the purity of LSD is because when it comes to the dose the purer blotter can have the same 100ug dropped but it will be stronger (% of impurity). I've noticed this with Hofmanns and Ying Yang Dolphins as supposedly the Hofmanns are less pure.

Im absolutely astonished!! This makes perfect sense!!! Recently my frieds and I acquired some blotter that was very close to "the family" in san Francisco. I remember all the acid I did in the 90's was really speedy..I mean it had a paradoxical effect mostly, but I did feel "wound up". It was always very visually stunning etc. Anyway my roommate and I dosed some of these WOWs that we acquired and while I was in full belief that this was real and very "clean acid" I did notice a slight difference in my subjective effects with these blotters than what I used to take in the San Francisco area back in the 90s. My roommate took up to 4/5 hits while all I needed was one of these guys and I was in a visual wonderland. I just figured he was a hardhead , but he kept say "dude this aint acid, its nice but its NOT acid...its too mellow". Im now quite convinced as this stuff was very LSD like but had some quite differing effects. It was very much more mellow than what I was used to. It had the familiar ever so slightly bitter taste that all my blotters in the past have had....when I say slightly bitter, I mean most people say theres NO taste at all. Can someone help me ID which analogue this might be????

Effects- more mellow, less adrenergic, trance inducing, visuals seems JUST A HAIR different in quality but cant put my finger on it. Effects lasted about 10 hours...A good portion of the heads I dosed with said it was a bit underwhelming to the acid they were used to. One even said "this aint acid". I know the difference between phens, trypts, and ergoloids and this was an ergoloid without a doubt. I noticed with this that it was a bit dreamier than how I remember acid being, my mind would easily drift into a dreamy headspace but I could just as easily snap out of it. It was very giggly as well. Had us all giggling and a few were maniacly laughing at the absurdity of "it all" at higher doses. Perhaps THIS was the real LSD and all stuff in the 90s I was taking were analogues?

When were these analogues more prevelant? And in what geographic locations were they more prevelant sold as LSD??

PS one more subjective difference that I noticed was a lack of "latter half" experience that Nichols discusses ....the one related to dopinergic effects.... That weird twilight zone like place I go to after an acid peak was non existed. In other words this las WoW that I had from san Francisco had a NICER come down after glow after the peak than what I was used to with acid in the 90's. This stuff was flat out more mellow on the mind and body than what Im used to.

So far as blotter that's not really LSD, yes set and setting IS obviously a large factor, however, in reply to the absolutism being expressed by some, there is ample evidence that there ARE substances active at blotter doses that are NOT LSD, being sold as LSD on blotters, despite folks above telling you its all in your head.

Thanks to SKL on esotericpharma.org... below is a direct copy of a few of his posts there, as well as the above journal article full PDFs... I asked him to repost it in one of the "fake acid?" threads here but he hasnt yet, so I'll spare him the trouble, since I am so tired of hearing the fact-free "all blotter is necessarily real LSD and any incorrect effects are all in your head" bullshit some people are obsessed with repeating over and over for reasons I won't attempt to psychoanalytically speculate about

- DH

Non-LSD ergoloids on blotter sold as "LSD" (GC/MS included)

Attached is a GC/MS that was done on a well-circulated blotter of European origin, a design that you would have heard of.

I and many others sampled the blotters, and felt the same way ... and this has been commented on by various people over the years ... it felt almost, but not quite like LSD (this is why the GC/MS was obtained), but was definitely not a DO-drug, 5-MeO-AMT, or any else of the various "other" things that has wound up on bunk blots.

The astute organic chemists among us will note that this is not LSD (note-a professional chemist I am not, but I have all of this on good authority). The GC/MS is not very easy to read because it came of paper which causes significant artifacts, but that much is clear.

Re: This is not LSD.
What is it, then?

I passed it to a chemist friend of mine who would prefer to remain anonymous, and he suggests one of the following:

Re: This is not LSD.
To dredge up some posts on Bluelight by me on this matter from earlier this year:

Quote:
If you are making something without a diethylamide in it, you don't need to be fucked to get diethylamine. I won't go further into synth-discussion territory because it's something that's relevant to probably on a handful of people on the face of the earth -- a fraternity that I am nowhere close to being a member of, but I did run across some very interesting GC/MS data recently this year

Quote:
I would add that some of these analogues are not necessarily "bad", in fact, in some ways, they may be subjectively a better experience -- in my subjective experience and the reports of some others, they are quicker and shorter acting and less anxiogenic/psychotomimetic, which may have to do with a greater affinity for 5ht1a.

Quote:
To a casual user, something like lysergic acid morpholide, or N-(3-pentyl)- or N-(sec-butyl)-lysergamide, all of which have circulated, would likely be very difficult to distinguish from LSD, but nonetheless would result in a qualitatively different experience; this could account for some of the varying "qualities" of LSD which circulates. Also, I strongly suspect that unreacted precusors and reagents, even in the miniscule relevant quantities, might have some psychophysiological effect.

RE: Non-LSD ergoloids on blotter sold as "LSD" (GC/MS includ

The 'other' ergoloid, which I will call "LS?", is, broadly speaking, in my limited subjective experience:

Re: Non-LSD ergoloids on blotter sold as "LSD" (GC/MS includ
Spark wrote:
Interesting. The question is, why would they sell these things instead of the real deal? Cheaper to make? Easier to make? A mistake in the synthesis (unlikely)?

It is quieter to make. Less watched precursors.

Quote:
Perhaps this is an explanation for the differences in "quality" that people speak of in terms of LSD. At least in some cases, I'd imagine. Honestly, one compound (and since the enantiomer thread makes it clear it is ONLY one compound) can't be that dammed different on a regular basis...

I think MOST of the difference has to do with subjective factors, but this is a factor.

I think that small impurities in various steps of the synth may also influence the final product in untoward ways. In a conversation I had with Dr. Nichols he suggested impure diethylamine resulting in the production of unknown lysergamides that might have effects in microdoses, but that is basically speculation. He definitely agreed that it is not al subjective though.

Quote:
What honestly always worries me more is that instead of LSD, they'll sell DOX as LSD.

This was a popular practice for a while during the overlap of the post-Pickard drought and the beginning of the modern RC scene, but now is a little less common, except in really backwater markets. DOB was the big offender in those days.

DOC blotters definitely circulate though. I got a page of DOC blotters with the Alex Gray Hofmann painting on it once, and that pissed me off :roll: . But I knew what I asked for and I knew what I got.

SOMEONE ELSE:

Re: Non-LSD ergoloids on blotter sold as "LSD" (GC/MS includ
I posted this in the thread SLK mention in the OP.
"I recently came across a supplier of acid whose acid, though very high quality, seems to be slightly different in effects from all of my previous LSD experiences and vastly different my DOx blotter experiences. The supposed LSD produced visuals at a very low level of intensity (which is far from all my previous experiences with LSD). It was also surprising anxiolytic at high doses where CEV's were constant and extremely vivid. The head space wasn't as out there as all my other previous experiences as well, even after consuming 4 hits (the visuals were absolutely insane). There are reports from multiple who also consumed this blotter that it was very visual, even with one hit. It felt like an ergoline, but it just felt different from LSD."

I wish I still had some the blotter and the money to get it tested.

A different batch of LSD was sold from my dealer which from another individual who has taken the above blotters and then consumed some of the new batch had a different qualitative experience, than the batch of blotters that were in town literally a week before. Now I never got a chance to consume these blotters, but it was reported that they were way less visual and had a stronger head high/analytical mind fuck if you will, with roughly the same dosage in terms of intensity and number of blotters consumed.

In case people are wondering, I'm in the US on the east coast. The suspect blotters where of varying prints which were all perforated (i personally saw a star patterned, pop art john lennon, and some dahli esque eye art). The next batch of blotter was just standard white on white unperforated.

SKL AGAIN:

The blotter in the OP was the cartoon hofmann/ohm blotter.

Re: Non-LSD ergoloids on blotter sold as "LSD" (GC/MS included)
Topic rearing its head on BL again

Important thing here, is that there are multiple Things being talked about in this thread:

1. high vs, low quality LSD - there is a lot of anecdotal evidence for this but not a lot of genuine chemical knowledge about how this could be so. The inscribe enantiomers of LSD are almost certainly NOT responsible; but it is not entirely impossible that other compounds, products of impure reagents or botched syntheses, might have untoward physiological effects. No less an authority than Dr. Nichols (pers. comm., 2008 ) has speculated as much.

2. Non-LSD ergoloids - this is confirmed but nobody knows very much about the subject and those that do aren't talking. To me it is a major scandal. But the thing is, these are actually pretty cool drugs, it is highly unlikely that they are causing any higher proportion of "bad" experiences than legit LSD.

3. Non-ergoloid psychedelics. This is just a dick move mostly by stupid kids to custie people. It was popular during the post-Pickard drought, a time during which #2 was unheard of ... But now is a little less common except in truly backwater markets, largely, I believe, due to the proliferation of #2.

4. Set and setting. Probably the biggest factor, more than people would like to admit, in the subjective differences betwixt different trips.

I came across some WoW recently on the east coast, and i am becoming more and more convinced that is was LSx and not -25.

The effects were going strong until the 6 hour mark when all of the sudden there was a sharp and sudden drop-off. The effects for the next three hours were very mild, i had a lingering body load and minor visuals that only became apparent when i concentrated on them.

The come up was normal (around 30-40 minutes) and the visuals were spectacular, yet I remained relatively clear headed throughout the entire trip.

Interesting posts some of the enterprising chemists of the psychedelic counterculture certainly played around & produced some similar things. A couple things I'm curious about that I don't have an answer for though are 1) Mass production could be an economic liability for such an organization if a chemical turned out to be less desirable or there was an issue with scaling up from the initial tests. This would be a disincentive. 2) Knowing there's a substantial niche market for such things, why not make some available via already existing channels to intrepid psychonauts who would probably pay well above lsd's market retail value?

I'm sure your more creative LSD chemists & their friends have taken a variety of ergoloids, there just seems scant evidence that its made it much beyond those circles. Not saying it couldn't have happened, just that there's a lack of evidence for it.

Hopefully at some point a nerd who ends up with some funky acid & has access to GC/MS or something similar will post the resulting readouts in this thread. Until then I kinda think of this like I do Bigfoot

You know those dudes In England who go out in the middle of the night and make crop circles? Then they sit back and watch the effect it has on people, the media and society as whole. With absolutely nothing to gain....no money, no publicity...nothing except perhaps their own self satisfaction. I could totally see chemists randomly secretly making LSD analogues and releasing them to the public. Hell if youre an acid chemist after synthing acid for 5-10 years I could totally see a chemist synthing a similar compound....just for the novelty of it. I think psychologically there are more reasons to believe that these chemists have and do synth analogues all the time....for the simple fact "because we can".

I am sure that the recent batches of AL-LAD & LSZ were not the first to be distributed. They're just the first batches to be sold widely and directly to the end-consumer. I would not be surprised at all if they had intermittently been popping up for the last 15 years.

I recently got WoW unperf that was absolutely tasteless, sold to me as LSD. Even though these would be my first times acuqireing what i thought to be LSD, it doesn't really line up. The body load, headspace, euphoria, jaw tension, lack of anorexic behavior on the substance makes me really doubt that what i have is LSD, there was also a sudden drop off around the 7 and 1/2 hour mark, where the effects had become very mild in a split second. I actually just started a thread about LSZ and AL-LAD being sold as LSD recently because of what i've been reading on other forums... I think ill just go delete that now lol. Question though, is anyone aware of any Tasteless chems being distributed that are not LSD analogues that recent blotter may be? It would be quite a catastrophy if some dangerous, tasteless chem is making its way into the scene...

NO Im not aware but this past winter a group of friends and i had unperf WOW as well and my whole group was questioning its legitamcy as well. Sound squite similar to what you describe...it tasted like acid....slightly bitter if you really sucked on it...but that's how AL-LAD and LSZ tasted to me as well...Im sensitive to it....the rest of my group reported the tabs as tasteless

Some phenethylamines have non-bitter flavors bordering on tasteless. Distributing the chemical I know of would cause physical complications in some, only an unethical or ignorant person would do so. An ultraviolet light can differentiate this one from L.S.D..This chemical glows different than L.S.D.

Are you comfortable giving the name of these chems? Id like to do some research on them. You could send me a private message if you dont want the names publicly on the forums, though i do think we should be aware if such things are going on...

Are you comfortable giving the name of these chems? Id like to do some research on them. You could send me a private message if you dont want the names publicly on the forums, though i do think we should be aware if such things are going on...

This, nichols had some he never published. Could these be it? are the Nbenzl substituted stuff? Because this is critical for harm reduction

Are you comfortable giving the name of these chems? Id like to do some research on them. You could send me a private message if you dont want the names publicly on the forums, though i do think we should be aware if such things are going on...

Well you seem to be the only person to make such claims and i can't find any other information so unless you know someone everyone on this thread doesn't im doubting these chems existence or availability. IMO if these chems do exist i think it would be crucial to harm reduction to make them known. how can someone use HR techniques without being aware of all possible adulterants?

Need I remind all you guys that we don't allow ID discussion? Frankly I think there is way way too much speculation going on here, this is not the secret corner of PD where anything flies.

Yes supposed potent actives being mentioned is very exciting but we are not going to try and match anything here on the fly. Don't start rumored based on trip effects that were not entirely typical.
If you need an analysis result looked at try it in NSP.

I tried checking the thread for anything concrete we can talk about but there is actually not that much. If there is anything we can continue with that is not a rumor please recapitulate it.

Honestly, I dont understand your reasoning here. Why even mention something of the sorts without giving any real information about the substance? To me, it seems you're trying to just get a rise out of everyone here. I understand that for many people mentioning new and untested substances "promotes" the use of said substance, but honestly that logic is flawed.
Think of it this way, for example, the government puts a lot of negative stigma on drugs in general, why? to create hysteria involved with drugs and to try and prevent people from doing drugs, specifically with Marijuana, LSD, Psilocybin, DMT. While the intentions are like yours, to prevent people from trying substances the government or you in this case deems dangerous, this causes more harm than good. Without proper information on what these things actually are, people become curious do less research and harm themselves or others experimenting on things they come across without proper research and information. While i know that LSD, Psilocybin, DMT, and Marijuana are known for being relatively safe, the concept holds true still with chems with a more dangerous safety profile.
I'm not saying that you should go ahead and proclaim to the world all of the most obscure and possibly highly dangerous chemicals that may be being produced, i do think that a general knowledge of possibly dangerous adulterants would be highly beneficial to harm reduction involving psychedelic drug use...
Im sorry if my posts are coming off as an attack towards you, I just really am not understanding where you are coming from on this.

Need I remind all you guys that we don't allow ID discussion? Frankly I think there is way way too much speculation going on here, this is not the secret corner of PD where anything flies.

Yes supposed potent actives being mentioned is very exciting but we are not going to try and match anything here on the fly. Don't start rumored based on trip effects that were not entirely typical.
If you need an analysis result looked at try it in NSP.

I tried checking the thread for anything concrete we can talk about but there is actually not that much. If there is anything we can continue with that is not a rumor please recapitulate it.

thanks

Sorry Solipsis, I am aware of the rules however I had a lapse of reasoning due to my wanting an ID more for harm reduction that this being a chemical Im considering to aquire again. But it would be beneficial for us to know what mystery chems may be sold on blotter as LSD so we know to take further precaution. Either way my reasoning for an was not "hey I found this bag of powder and I really want to consume it. What could it be". I and several others consumed a chemical that was specifically supposed to be LSD but the effects were different and one of the members of my group was absolutly convinced that this wasnt acid. Further we spoke with others that have tested the batch and claimed it "was mdma" like , so I trully am concerned as I had a bad cardiac related reaction to nbome and I dont want to consume anything remotly similar.

I understand that and I do want to encourage information about it being shared, but wild speculation and confused back-and-forth talk or misinformation are not of help to anyone. This is not meant as accusation, I just want to limit discussion that is not adding information to prevent this thread and the solving of questions getting overcomplicated and cluttered.

But yes I am trying to see if I can mediate in this matter, if there are people with info who want to be careful with it. Maybe some things can be confirmed, helping people, while still being discreet enough. After all, that would be better than having nothing and sitting here not understanding and not knowing.