I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

jaylectricity:I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?

It's almost as if the environment of gangs and gang related activities is unhealthy.

Now of course causation != correlation and there's probably some give and take in the middle. But it will be interesting to see if they do more studies on this. They definitely need to. Gangs are getting to be quite a problem in 1st world countries.

Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal. The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human. If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

rev. dave:Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal. The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human. If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

Christ! that was the weakest article I've ever read... Who funds this crap? 108 out of 4664... are you serious? I guess the hard part was finding the 108! I bet you'd get the same stats out of 4664 Soccer Moms! hahahaa

Smoking GNU:jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?

rev. dave:Each of us can choose whether to act like an human angel or act like an animal. The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like an human angel. If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

Smoking GNU:jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?

Lith:rev. dave: Each of us can choose whether to act like a human or act like an animal. The more we act in each direction, the more it becomes natural to act like an animal or to act like a human. If you live in an animal state, you are clinically insane.

I wouldn't be surprised f this were true, but depending on the definition of "mental illness", most humans have something going on. Anxiety, depression, obsessive thoughts, there are a lot of "mild" mental disorders that leave you mostly functional but not very contented in life.

As well, gang members have often grown up in fractured families, with financial desperation, abuse, witnessing murders or the aftermath near their homes, etc. They grow up in poor neighborhoods where there's no chance to honestly rise above poverty. Some grow up in what is essentially a war zone, complete with PTSD by the time they're adolescents.

In other words they are already growing up with a completely different set of rules than fuzzy middle-class America: Strength is survival. Defend your honor. Take before you are taken from. Couple those with deep-seated anger issues and drug use and ta-da! Insane behaviour.

Smoking GNU:jaylectricity: I have this argument all the time. A murderer is always insane. It's only insane for a person to kill another. There's no way it's sane. That's why I feel sorry for the murderer 38% as much as I feel for their victims.

How about when the person has half his/her arms/legs blown off and the rest of him/her is pretty badly burnt and s/he asks you to do the deed?

that condition and many more show the collective insanity of society as a whole. mercy killings would often be a kind and right thing to do for/to those who suffer. but no, those who could bring themselves to help would be charged by the law. good sense and sanity do not rule the world.

What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

born_yesterday:What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

born_yesterday:What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

Haha, that's funny, thinking that you won't find yourself unemployable after only thirty years in the workforce.

cuzsis:Gangs are getting to be quite a problem in 1st world countries.

Which ones? Not the US- gang violence peaked back in the 90s. Russia, I suppose, but in Russia it's more of a side effect of a failed state- the government fails to fill such a large portion of its duties that illegal organizations are filling in the gap. Regardless, it would have been much worse in the 90s. France has a problem with disenfranchised minorities, but they're not really organizing into gangs.

Arthen:Give me access to personal history and a DSM and I will diagnose a mental illness for anyone.

No you wouldn't, and the specific reason is that the DSM is meant to identify the nature of the disorder that has an obvious impact on quality of life. So while everyone falls under the various diagnostic criteria for one or more DSM conditions, only people who are failing to thrive actually meet the primary one.

Regarding TFA: Steven Pinker ran the numbers, and your average street-level gangbanger gets less money from the gang than they'd make working at McDonald's, and suffers a much higher risk of getting shot to death. But the gang creates an illusion of promotion- you could someday be the rich guy at the top of the gang. But the rich guys aren't actually all that rich- they're leasing their cars and jewelry, they're creating an illusion of wealth. The only people getting rich off the gang are waaaaaay up in the stratosphere of the gang organization- the illegal equivalent of CEOs. The labor and the middle management get shiat upon, just like the rest of us.

born_yesterday:What if I told you insane was working fifty hours a week in some office for fifty years at the end of which they tell you to piss off; ending up in some retirement village hoping to die before suffering the indignity of trying to make it to the toilet on time? Wouldn't you consider that to be insane?

This is kind of obvious. Look at the general population. Extract from that those who have some kind of mental disorder, psychosis, anxiety, whatever. Then control for ethnicity and socioeconomic status - including the neighborhood they grew up in. MAGIC!