Yea. It's depressingly familiar to me. Maybe I should shun JMS. My fandom seems to be the kiss of death, sometimes. Although, I seem to be doing better in recent years. Back in B5's day, I'd start watching series a few episodes before they were cancelled.

I know the feeling. In fact, I almost didn't watch B5 when it first came out because I was so tired of watching new shows, starting to like them a lot and then they'd disappear after a few episodes. My life might have been just a little different if I'd missed it!

Wow. Yes, very different. But I think you'd have heard that it was still alive after the first couple of seasons. You were meant to see Babylon 5.

Wow. Yes, very different. But I think you'd have heard that it was still alive after the first couple of seasons. You were meant to see Babylon 5.

Yes...Yes I was! ;-) And look at you doing your Kosh impression.

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"You know, I used to think that life was terribly unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair? If all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." ~~Marcus Cole

I think JMS gave the Star Trek guys a detailed overview of his vision for Babylon 5. And then, suddenly, Star Trek does its first series not set on a starship but on a space station. With Star Trek's first arc-planned storyline. And a leader who become a religious figure. And... but sadly I really liked DS9, too.

The question is whether Rick Berman and Michael Piller saw the overview or whether the execs (who definitely had done) suggested themes which later ended up being the main ones of the show. I suspect they didn't. Despite The Dominion supposedly having conquered hundreds of planets we don't even hear about them until season 2. If the whole show had been based on JMS's ideas they'd have existed right from the start. It would only take a few comments from executives to steer the show in a more B5 direction.

"Every episode is on the station or in those tiny runabouts - Can't we give them their own starship?"
"Can't we have a big enemy for the show? You know like an enemy race that they'll fight for most the later episodes?"

Stuff like that would easily send a creative mind to make something much more like B5. I don't think you need to choose between DS9 and B5. You can like them both. But it's only fair to acknowledge that there obviously was some theft going on.

The question is whether Rick Berman and Michael Piller saw the overview or whether the execs (who definitely had done) suggested themes which later ended up being the main ones of the show. I suspect they didn't.

That's never been in question at all. JMS has always maintained that Berman and Pillar are honorable men who would never have countenanced stealing. He's always said that it was stearing from others who'd've had access to his material.

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"You know, I used to think that life was terribly unfair. Then I thought, wouldn't it be much worse if life were fair? If all the terrible things that happen to us come because we actually deserve them? So now I take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe." ~~Marcus Cole

Honestly my main problem is that B5 would likely be much more respected and celebrated if DS9 had never existed. The fact that DS9 exists is something that forever tainted B5. From the fact that it kept Trek fans from giving B5 a chance back then, thereby helping to limit exposure and recognition. To the fact that it created this controversy, which seems to not matter now but is in fact the largest problem B5 ever faced and will ever face. In a perfect world DS9 would never have happened and B5 would have been the ratings hit it could have been, which means it would have had more success and a chance to grow with REAL budgets. We would likely be talking multiple movies and if the franchise had died down then there would be a definite reboot in this day and age. The reality is that even if JMS goes ahead with a feature film reboot there will be thousands of voices across the internet incorrectly describing B5 as the DS9 ripoff. So yeah, I wish DS9 never existed.

Thing is, anyone who is dumb enough to claim B5 is the rip off is going to get informed at great length exactly why they're wrong. If there's one flaw we don't have in B5 fandom it's showing too much restraint.