Did anyone hear Jack McDowell on the Dan Patrick show? He said that Frank was never a good teammate and he didn't do the little things like show up early, root for others and take young guys under his wing.

He claims that he and Centura were the leaders of that early 90's team and they finally decided to put up with his lack of teamwork in return for the BA and RBIs.

My position on the Frank thing is starting to turn and I think you need to get rid of him. Benching him is not enough and letting him play will not bring the team together.

NUKE_CLEVELAND

07-09-2002, 06:24 PM

None of this is surprising. Skirt has always struck me as selfish, but nobody cared because until recently he put up the big numbers. Now however, he sucks ass & now that the big numbers are gone he is not going to get the kind of slack he once did.
As far as I'm concerned he can take his 10 million, his *****ty batting average & his whining & go straight to hell.

OfficerKarkovice

07-09-2002, 07:34 PM

Originally posted by NUKE_CLEVELAND
...nobody cared because until recently he put up the big numbers. Now however, he sucks ass & now that the big numbers are gone he is not going to get the kind of slack he once did.
As far as I'm concerned he can take his 10 million, his *****ty batting average & his whining & go straight to hell.

Nobody, including apparently yourself, so quit your bitching because you know that the second that Frank starts hitting good again you will be right back there cheering for him. And I'm not just picking on you of course, it's half the people around here. It's like a bunch of bandwagon Frank Thomas fans. It's sickening.

hsc1

07-09-2002, 07:48 PM

i dont consider myself a frank bandwagoner....i have always respected his accomplishments in his career, but his attitude however i have no room for.....jack and paulie are not the first of the teammates to say something about frank and im sure wont be the last either.....until frank does something to change his attitued and become a team player he will always be talked about....if frank feels the need to move on then so be it... maggs will more than likely surpass franks numbers in a white sox uniform anyway.......we have a plethora of young guys who im sure one day will fill franks shoes rather nicely......theyre makin them younger, better and a heck of alot more durable these days.....lol....

OfficerKarkovice

07-09-2002, 08:08 PM

Originally posted by hsc1
maggs will more than likely surpass franks numbers in a white sox uniform anyway.......we have a plethora of young guys who im sure one day will fill franks shoes rather nicely

Don't count on it. Take a look at there first four full seasons in the league:

Frank .326 AVG 135 HR 453 RBI .451 OBP

Maggs .302 AVG 107 HR 421 RBI .357 OBP

* Keep in mind that by this time in his career Frank had won 2 MVP awards and finished in the Top 10 all four years. Maggs, as good as he has been, has yet to finish in the Top 10 once.

duke of dorwood

07-09-2002, 08:27 PM

Throughout his career, Frank has not been or claimed to be a leader. It was obvious who the leaders were. I remember Frank and Robin being very close. And I am not a Frank flag waver, but where was McDowells comments when they won in 93 and were headed to win in '94?

hsc1

07-09-2002, 09:29 PM

officer k, i do count on it... frank has how many more years to play?? not many.. maggs on the other hand has plenty....maggs is right up there with frank as far as clearing the team stats and records.....and has consistantly gotten better with each year.....not to mention doesnt have as many dl timeouts.......if he stays healthy enough he can and most likely will surpass frank in each catagory....

Tragg

07-09-2002, 11:37 PM

isn't jack the one, with his bud eddie vedder, getting into bar fights down here in New Orleans?
Anyway, Jack pitched like a bum against the blue jays, so to hell with him.

Iguana775

07-10-2002, 12:11 AM

Originally posted by Tragg
isn't jack the one, with his bud eddie vedder, getting into bar fights down here in New Orleans?
Anyway, Jack pitched like a bum against the blue jays, so to hell with him.

didn't Blackjack have a problem with giving away his pitches and the jays picked up on that? i thought i remember that.

nut_stock

07-10-2002, 01:03 AM

I could care less about a guy making statements about Frank's behavior 8 years ago.

Paulwny

07-10-2002, 06:39 AM

Originally posted by Iguana775

didn't Blackjack have a problem with giving away his pitches and the jays picked up on that? i thought i remember that.

Yea, there was some talk that the jay's coaches picked up a difference in Jack's motion when certain pitches were to be delivered.

hold2dibber

07-10-2002, 08:07 AM

I always liked McDowell and thought it odd that he wasn't really embraced by Sox fans. The guy was a balls-out winner; there was never any doubt in my mind that he gave it all every time out, and despised losing. He was a team leader, no question.

And there is no doubt that Thomas has never been a team leader. He is immature, selfish and standoff-ish. But I couldn't care less. I seriously doubt that his personality has caused even a single loss in his career. Frank is a big baby - always has been, always will be. Steve Lyons may have been a great teammate and a great guy, but who would you rather have on your team? I guess my point is, we all know who Frank is, I would assume his teammates all know who Frank is, and the only thing that will solve the situation, and the only thing that really matters, is that Frank contribute on the field.

As much as I hate to say it, I think PK has been out of line in his public comments. This stuff belongs in the clubhouse and I don't see how airing his feelings publically can have a positive effect. He should have talked to Thomas and/or Manuel if he was pissed and declined to comment to the media.

34 Inch Stick

07-10-2002, 08:55 AM

Jack better watch it or Frank will get Mark Whitten on his ass.

guillen4life13

07-10-2002, 02:23 PM

this morning's paper had a quote of Frank saying that he isn't going to see Walt Hriniak. i still think that frank will get out of his slump, but if he doesn't... then i'm gonna have to jump bandwagons, as much as i hate to say it. Frank isn't doing his job right now. a .239 average from the highest paid player on a team that is supposed to be contending is just not acceptable, period. we've gone past the point of, "oh it's real early in the season, he's just wetting his feet." no. we're already more than halfway through this season. i think that he's gonna come back strong next year but for this year, frank should shut his mouth, and do what he's asked to do. he is no longer the most dominant hitter on this White Sox club. that position now is shared by Maggs and konerko. If he wants to keep the fans on his side, and keep the media away from saying bad stuff about him, he should show a little more maturity in these types of situations.

remember 2000? 2000 aint here no more. the time has come for frank to put up or shut up. this team needs wins, and frank isnt helping its cause. i think that when frank isn't in the lineup, either use liefer, or use tony at 3rd and let manos dh. and then put ray in the 3 hole (remember last year in the 3 hole?). here's one of my lineups w/o thomas and liefer:

Nobody, including apparently yourself, so quit your bitching because you know that the second that Frank starts hitting good again you will be right back there cheering for him. And I'm not just picking on you of course, it's half the people around here. It's like a bunch of bandwagon Frank Thomas fans. It's sickening.

Thanks Officer. I thought I was one of the only Frank supporters still around here. This situation totally reminds me of the end of '99 season when everyone said Frank was done and then had an MVP type year in 2000. I don't think that we've seen the last of the old MVP type Frank.

Iguana775

07-10-2002, 08:22 PM

i am not ready to give up on the big guy, either. he is still putting up the power numbers. i just know the moment he would be traded, he will have a year like 2000.

CLR01

07-11-2002, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Iguana775
i am not ready to give up on the big guy, either. he is still putting up the power numbers. i just know the moment he would be traded, he will have a year like 2000.

And ofcourse when it happens everyone that is calling for him to be traded will be all over, KW, JR, Jm or whoever because they actually did it.