Meta Question

Is Fluther becoming a refugee camp for AskVille and do us non-AskVillers not get an ambassador?

Yes this question has a hint of negativity, but it’s just doing my head in a little bit that I’ve seen nothing but “askville this and askville that” in the last day or so and right now I’m looking at a welcoming message telling me I’m an AskVille member and I should report to users who have been on fluther about half the time I have…....(no offense PnL and Marissa, I do enjoy both your posts)

@Eureka: hey, nobody’s “asking” anyone to leave!!! We welcome everyone here! I was simply responding to wildflower’s question, and perhaps soon one of the site admins can explain the circumstances to non-AV-ers, as to the nature of the recent influx. We’d love for you to stay awhile :)

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions or other thoughts on this :)

I understand the frustration, really I do. I am lurking and looking around, so I don’t step on toes. I posted to that question and mentioned that I have met some nice people here. I know it has to very overwhelming, I’m sure, if you give us a chance, we’ll adjust.

I promise! I haven’t posted any questions about Askville, or being a member there! Actually, I haven’t posted any questions – but I have answered some.

@Eureka
I personally don’t care (and I mean that in the friendliest manner possible) what other sites people on Fluther visit. I don’t mean to take part in an “us-and-them” culture – quite the opposite – which is why I don’t understand this overwhelming emphasis on AskVille, a site I’ve never visited and didn’t think was a pre-requisite to using Fluther.

Yes, I’ve noticed the same thing…so many questions about Fluther vs. Askville, etc…it’s just too much after a while! I mean, a few questions are fine, but we’re practically being bombarded at this point…it’s great that so many people from Askville are coming here, and I’m fine with people being from Askville, but the site is not about questions concerning Askville, which are pretty much the only questions that people from Askville are asking.

@cak and Eureka; Stay! We have no problem with you being here! It’s just the constant Askville questions that are annoying…

Wow! I just signed up in the past 5 minutes, and this is the first question I came across, I’m going to dive right in here and say I’m also an Askville refugee; however I promise not to ask any questions regarding Askville.

Yeah, I’ve gotten a bit tired of hearing about Askville as well.
But I want to make it clear that I don’t want the Askville people to feel like they’re being pressured to leave. We welcome additions to the collective. But as johnpowell said, Askville doesn’t really have to be brought up…

I’m sorry if anyone took this question as a personal attack. It was certainly not meant as such. I was just feeling a bit like a (jelly)fish out of water, not being able to take part in the majority of the recent questions unless I start commenting about a site I have no knowledge of (so far, at least).

I have been here a couple of days and I have made friends with both askvilles and fluthers and I have answered questions from none askville and have asked questions not related to askville. I want to be friends with everyone, this is a very nice place to be.

Recently there were a significant number of power Askville members who have decided to join the community. I added the welcome message to aide in their transition—just like we added a special message to the iPhone users when we were listed as Apple’s top webapp. The logic is flawed right now and shows up after visiting any page with “askville” in the URL, and I haven’t been able to get the time to fix that yet.

The community (on both sides) will suss out the culture. In the mean time, if you’re bothered by the new content, feel free to hang out in your fluther for a bit. We’re working on rejiggering the site for new users so it’s easier to understand our unique culture—but remember that a key aspect of that culture is diversity.

Wildflower! Is that why you’ve been so distant on here? I missed ya!. And ive noticed a few fellow askvillers have answered a question of mine and have really helped me out. It at first was weird, but I don’t want anyone to leave.

In my experience on Askville, when people need help, they ask for it. In asking, they often, though not always give context. I suspect that perhaps fifty Askville members have joined Fluther in the last few days. As newbies, many are a bit at sea as to the culture and practices of this place. If they let folks know where they’re from, perhaps they’ll get a more effective introduction.

If you can hold your breath a little, I suspect it will all calm down. Indeed, many may depart, if the troubles over on AV subside. But also, we’ll probably learn about this place and get the hang of it, so our silly newbie questions will become less of a pervasive annoyance.

And generally, except for me, you’ll like the AV folks. They tend to be very nice. Perhaps too nice. But nice is good. I guess. For whatever reason, I’ve got a bit of an edge. I’ll try not to let it be too sharp.

16 of the most prolific and admired Askvillers were kicked out for trying to defend the place against someone who was pretty nasty. It was grossly unfair and ill-conceived. The suspendees ended up here, and a lot of the rest of us followed because they are a hell of a lot more interesting than what is happening on AV now.

Hi all! First, I want to apologize to everyone that has been a bit overdone with ‘Askville’. The great influx of Askville folks is basically my fault. I found this site months ago and was really impressed with the kindness of folks here and your intelligence (ironically, I found Fluther while researching a question for Askville). Due to the situation that daloon explained, I recommended Fluther to a lot of Askvillers. Due to many changes on Askville, the quality and feeling of community is no longer there. We use to have the feeling of pride and community in Askville that you folks have here. I can’t speak for anyone else, but I can explain my motivation and why I have handled things here on Fluther the way I have. In my opinion, part of what contributed to some of the problems on Askville, was lack of information and understanding when Askville did something to cause a large influx in users. I knew that the events that have occurred on Askville could cause a large influx of newusers here on Fluther, so I wanted to explain the situation to Andrew and PnL so that they would be aware and able to anticipate potential problems. I did this hoping to lessen any negative impact an influx of Askvillers might cause. One of the potential problems was the Fluther community being bombarded with ‘newuser’ type questions the ‘how’s, ‘why’s and ‘where’s so to speak. Therefore, PnL and I agreed to be ‘ambassadors’ so that most of the burden of answering these questions (hopefully before they were posted to you all) and helping folks transition to Fluther would fall on our shoulders and not be too disrupting to Fluther. Also, if I have mentioned Askville in my answers or explainations, it has usually been on a question that has been asked by another Askviller and therefore I knew it would be easier for them to understand if I explained something with a point of reference with which we were both familiar (for example a recent question about forwarding a question to a friend on Fluther). In retrospect, I could have answered them privately without posting it to the Fluther community, however, if I had done that, another person might have the same question and would not have been able to see my answer. Why should newusers from Askville be any different from any other newuser? Well, the main difference in my mind is that most newusers don’t join Fluther already knowing a bunch of the other newusers. Therefore, I was concerned about a lot of people with a history together coming here and alienating the members of Fluther, not intentionally, but unintentionally with ‘inside jokes and/or info’ and/or by doing things the ‘Askville way’. That is why I composed a message that I sent to all new users from Askville as I found out they arrived. I sent a copy of the message to Andrew and PnL, so they would know what I was doing. I will gladly send a copy of that message to anyone that wants to see it, just pm me. Well, perhaps I should have kept this ‘answer’ shorter, but I wanted to take the time to explain myself to anyone that wants to take the time to read all of this. I am (as I know many of us are) incredibly grateful to all of you that have welcomed us warmly. I respect and understand those of you that might not be too enthused about the sudden influx of ‘Askville’. I only hope that all of this ends up being a positive for the Fluther community and that Andrew doesn’t come to regret his warm and generous welcome to us. Finally, if I screw up here on Fluther, please feel free to tell me. I welcome the opportunity to learn proper Fluther behavior.

I am sorry you feel that you are now in a position where you need to apologize or feel the need to apologize for your kindness. I will say, that I joined fluther, actually, several months ago. I just didn’t have the frame of mind to participate in several places, at one time. So I stuck with what I was comfortable with, Askville.

When the crap hit the fan, I came here, like many other. However, what I did and I will say to everyone that is thinking that we all didn’t try to look around, at Marissa’s and PnL’s urging, I looked around and started to participate.

I rarely, (except on this question, another one posted just before this one – oh and one asking if you prefer Yahoo Answers or Askville – which I mentioned that I really liked fluther.) if ever mention Askville in my answers. In fact, I haven’t gravitated to the askville questions. I made the decision that I didn’t want to be cak from Askville. I want to stand on my own merits, here. Cak, someone new on fluther. Hopefully, someone that others will come to think of as a productive member of fluther.

Marissa did invite us, PnL also encouraged us – to find a better online place to go, that’s all. They both encouraged us to look around, to start becoming part of fluther, if we liked it. They provided the guidelines, hints and told us to please ask them, when we need help.

Please, if anyone thinks they did something wrong, they didn’t. They only tried to invite friends. They didn’t realize that this would happen.

Marissa, I’m sorry that you felt the need to post this, I do hope that things calm down, soon and that things are ok for you.

I would like to clarify something since many people are mistaken about this. Marissa and I were chosen as “ambassadors” not because we are the best flutherers (I know I am not even close to that title). We were chosen because both of us are members of that “other site” and thus know majority of the members who have been recently joining fluther. Marissa knows them better than I do, since I haven’t been there for a while, but I know or knew fluther better than marissa did, so it seemed like a good combination. Our job as ambassadors mainly involves welcoming people and answering tech support Qs such as how to search for people and add them to your fluther etc. If anyone feels that they would prefer the position and want to be an “ambassador” instead, you are welcome to take my spot.

As to people like Eureka who mentioned leaving: I think the recent Qs being asked about AV-ers is not because flutherers want you to leave, they just feel a little exasperated that they are now “strangers” to their own community site. I think that by the next few days (max), things will have settled down. And please remember to PM me, marissa or Allie (she volunteered to help out) if you have any technical “how do i do this” kind of Qs instead of asking the community. Thanks. And hope you enjoy fluthering.

@Marissa: What you just described is exactly what several of us were discussing last night. The difference is that Askvillers all know each other, rather than a sudden influx of users from another source. It makes it harder because it’s sort of two communities in one. But, down the road, I don’t think that there will be a problem combining the veteran Flutherites and the Askvillers who stick around into a bigger and better collective.

That is nice to hear. Believe me, when you’ve been made to feel unwelcome at a site that you’ve been a member of for almost two years, it’s nice to find a site that at least gives you a chance, regardless of where you’re from. I think what some of the oldbies here are seeing is a group that are feeling a bit “burned”. I know that I’m walking on eggshells everywhere, and I’ve been sitting in the background, mostly, lurking and trying to get a feel for this culture. In my mind that is being courteous, rather than plunging in with questions and answers. The questions that I have felt pretty sure that I can enter into without breaching the Fluther etiquette – as yet to be learned – are AV questions. Hopefully the “newness” of being an exile will wear off pretty quick, but hopefully we’ll never have to “assimilate.” I think part of what makes any community strong is an ability to embrace a diversity of cultures. We may still speak “Askvillese” and the recent events in our homeland (lol) might still be very fresh on our minds, but we didn’t come to Fluther because we had nowhere else to go. We have a really strong community and an AV group on FaceBook, and we also have a Yahoo Group aptly named “Afterville”. Both groups are open to anyone, including anyone from Fluther, but the common bond is that we met via Askville. Rightly or wrongly, I felt a common bond here because I knew a few people from AV, and they rolled out the welcome mat. Soon other Flutherites seemed to say “we don’t care where the heck you’re from, join the party.”

Now that’s an attitude I can relate to. And if it’s any consolation, while we are here getting acquainted and your site seems to be deluged with AV talk, there is an equal amount – if not much more – Fluther talk going on in AV, including many, many posts with links to Fluther. And from what I’ve seen, they are incredibly understanding and supportive of some AVers desire to migrate. I haven’t seen one person say “Enough talk about Fluther!” I’m not saying that’s a better attitude, just saying it’s nice when a group can accommodate one another, and embrace their differences, as well as their similarities.

Fluther has the best user community I’ve yet to come across on the internet. I love it here.. the people are smart, accepting, fun, witty, and we have some of the most interesting conversations! Flaming isn’t tolerated by the mods or the community, so the feeling is very relaxed and accepting. I feel really happy I found this site, I quickly became an addict. I mean, where else can you show off what a smartypants you are without people thinking you’re a know-it-all jackass? :)

Wildflower, I appreciated your honesty, and I understood your sentiment. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with voicing how you feel about a situation, and this situation was a bit emotional for everyone involved. I doubt that another group would ever “land” with the intensity we were emoting, lol. It’s good to know the impact “we” were having on the community, and I know you spoke for others. There’s nothing wrong with gently admonishing the newcomers to a community to respect the culture, and that’s how I took your question.

I had seen this question and sought it out in the fear that it would degenerate into a lot of unwelcome outsider sentiment…I’m so glad that’s not the case. I really have nothing to add, I simply agree that we’re going to see a lot less talk about that other site when people are reinstated, because then there will be an appropriate forum. I understand the concerns about a whole bunch of people who know each other overwhelming the culture here, but one thing I would point out is most people who came here are seeking a forum for their thoughts and ideas…we value contributing and back and forth, and it is because we don’t believe in forcing our ways on people that we a) came here and b) by and large feel we fit in here. I think I speak for most AVers (and now former AVers) that we love this place, we respect your culture and will help you fight to keep it what it is, not work against you.

As one (this live thing is a little weird, seeing how slow I am) of theAskville 16 or 17 or 18, I am interested in what my co-exiles are going to do after tomorrow. I think I know what I want to do but would appreciate what the others have to say.

HiYa GGirl and in answer to your question – I still don’t know. But I won’t go on adnauseum in this question here about how I feel. I’ve stated it elsewhere on Fluther and I don’t want to get trounced on here ;-)

I’ll check into AV periodically. I’m not answering any more questions, at least not right now, unless I’m just so moved to answer it that I can’t help myself. I will post answers in the DB…I think I will pretty much use only the DBs over there going forward, and even those I’ll try not to get too dragged down in. But I’d just as soon save my mental energy to answering and asking questions here. I’ll maintain a presence, answer PMs, vote on appeals and such, but I’d say 85 to 90 percent of my q & a time will be here from now on.

@wundayatta Askville removed the annoying interactivity. Now only the person who posted a question and the person who asked it are allows to comment on the answer. If you answered this question on Askville, only wildflower could answer it. I would not be allowed this post, the most I could do is post a new answer with @wundayatta at the start and HOPE that you saw it. There is no forwarding of questions. Search is Google only. There are no rewards but thumbs up or down.

In short, they removed the “community” part and started bots to ask questions that would generate Google traffic that would generate Amazon traffic. Enough of the annoying chit-chat.

It was my understanding that they take answers regarding products on Amazon and turn them into questions. The questions show up when you search Google for anything regarding that product and take you to Amazon. It’s believed that Amazon and Google are in collusion, as it is generating a HUGE amount of traffic for both, and traffic is money on the internet today.

I suspect that they could also be lifting questions from smaller, more technical sites and posting them on Askville for the same reason…site specific traffic. Non-logged in Askville is nothing but a running advertisement, and they’re prefer to run that without all the damned interactivity. They DECIMATED the site, and did it in stages, all under the guise of ‘user improvements’. Classic wolf in sheep’s clothing.