it was a lucky shot, between two ribs into the heart and lungs and through the other side without hitting any bones. Would I count on it again? hell no, would I use a XTP on bear again? probably but only if I couldn't get some DT, it was rather different being only a few yards from a large black bear, even with my 375 ICL laying across my lap with 5 rounds of 300 grn persuasion

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Quote:

Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"

Considering these facts before accepting through-n-throughs:
-Virtually all handgun rounds vary in diameter only approx one quarter of an inch (.22 vs .50 is only .28 inches).
-Expansion of these rounds upon impact then makes the "hole" vary up to another quarter to half of an inch.
-The above numbers are much smaller when considering the fact that most of us are using something between a 9mm and a .45 cal.
-Most of you brag about your preferred hot loads. Hot loads add velocity and torque. Think about WHY you are getting excited about these hot loads. It's because they have more power. Power for what?
-Power to penetrate, power to cause impact stress, power to knock down, power to cause damage when penetrating soft tissues.
-What good is all that power when the bullet passes through your fleshy target?!!??!

OK, maybe you were 1/16" closer to a major blood vessel because of expansion or because you simply have a big bore. Maybe your full penetration cut throgh an extra 2" of ribs and meat, but if that's the case then you've already went beyond the vitals. Human torsos front to back are average less than a foot thick, and most game animals are about 2 feet thick. If yuo pass through these then consider how much damage you've caused with your wound cavities, and think about all of the power you've wasted. Keep the power in your target for best results in maximizing the wound cavities. A hole doesn't always keep your game in place.

Over penetration for someone in a personal defense scenario, particularly with a handgun, is a non-issue. For organizations sending many rounds down range by people of variable experience and skill attempting to protect the public more than themselves, they have some room for concern.

It's my opinion that an under-penetrating round is more likely to cause loss of life do to an inability to rapidly stop a hostile target than even missed rounds having the unlikely result of striking an unintended target.

Look at the Hollywood shootout. 1000+ rounds of 7.62x39 FMJ expended by the bad guys and they only managed to hit people they were targeting. No reports of stray rounds hitting anyone. Even those who were hit, in one case 9 times, were able to be saved with fairly prompt medical attention. The only loss of life in that even were the 2 criminals.

Too me nearly any handgun round is going to be a compromise. I'll carry the biggest round I can carry and control. For me that usually works out to 10mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP but I wouldn't feel bad about toting a 454 Casull or even a 500 S&W if the circumstances warranted it. But if I'm expecting trouble, I'll take .308 or 12 gauge slugs thank you.

My Dad's home defense pairing is a 44 Mag Blackhawk for checking noises and a 458 Win Mag if he's holed up waiting for the Police.

I like the post, the only comment I'd have is that a max loaded .500 Mag will seriously outperform a .308 in anything but armor penetration and trajectory. My .500 Mag handloads have more energy and far more penetration and cross section. Don ;f ;f

My Dad has spotted a Couger just behind their back yard fence mosying tward the nearby farm. He has some copper solids for disabling engines of escaping criminals as well. He's all sighted in for the road at the top of the hill.

Because laws don't stop criminals. People do.

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Laws don't stop criminals. People do.

Hi everyone. The overpenetration being discussed appears to be aimed (no pun) at human bad guys. My foremost thought in carrying the 10mm is canine. I live in Maine where it has become/is COOL to own a pit-bull terrier or Rottweiller. My youngest brother was attacked in front of me by a "TRAINED" dog. Hence, my sights (no pun) are set on Relative Firepower and absolutely stopping a aggressive threat from a dog. Anyone new to maine should be prepared for the reality of neighborhood gangs that will "send" a attack dog upon you or those you love. The idea is to attack with impunity. They do not register nor admit to owning a dog after the attack. Many such attacks take place, check the news. Lest we forget, what happens to the bullets that miss the bad guy. I understand that frangibles do in fact work on innocents. "you don't win a fight, you survive it."

Well I did do some research on over penitration. I found it to be somewhat mythical. You find traces of suspected overpenatration with innocent bystanders. But I think mostly its missed shots.
Although I find many a person talking about overpenatration, and what might happen, I can't seem to find any specific documented incidence where it did happened. Now I can find several references where bystanders were hit by wild (missed shots) shots fired by both police, criminals, and private citizens. Can't seem to find any documentation on through and through shots killing anyone else........except in theory or in movies.
My Glock 20 has become my most favoret handgun. For target I practice with standard rounds that are about 1000 fps. For CCW I pack the Double Tap 155 gr HPs, at close to 1500 fps. In the back woods I pack the 200 grain Penatrating HPs just incase Mr. Smoky Bear decides he wants to talk to me.
Next to the .44 mag, this is the most versital handgun on the Market.
Next The 6 inch compensated barrel.
Over Penatration is a myth started by some High ranking LEO who didn't want to take some heat for having to powerful a ammo.
DA