Anyways, there are PS3's everywhere I go also. No Wii's or accessories for it. I'd like the Virtual Console to get more games out, rather than 2 every Monday...but then again, I cant find any Wii Point cards to buy them with so it doesnt matter. And Call of Duty 3 for Wii is far superior to the one on PS3. Being able to move your gun that quickly with the Wiimote and having it vibrate when you shoot is alot more fun than slowly moving a cursor on the screen that does nothing to make you feel like your in the game.

...I think though that the xbox360 is being overlooked here....So far I have played Oblivion, GRAW, Gears of War, Viva Pinata, Call of Duty 2 and 3, Dead Rising, and PGR3....

You're absolutely right, Xbox 360 is a good gaming platform, and has the titles to show for it. But one thing you'll notice is that most, if not all of the titles you mentioned are first person shooters.

Not everyone wants to play a first person shooter, and that's where the Wii is leading everyone else it seems. The Wii has a lot more potential as universal platform for software in the living room, because it offers things like a mouse without the need for a surface to put the "mouse" on to use it. The user interface for the Wii is so well done that it's actually fun to use.

How games adopt that interface will prove the success of those same games on the Wii. Interestingly enough, this has caused a re-focus on the part of developers on gameplay rather than graphics, which is a welcome in an industry dominated by an idiotic infatuation with framerates.

Basically what it boils down to is that compared to the PS3, the Wii was primarily marketed to kids and teens, both in the way it was (successfully) hyped, and in the content of the games. Plus it had the distinction of being the "Tickle-Me Elmo" of this past shopping year, in terms of rabid consumer hysteria, regardless of quality or worth. Which is not to say it's a bad product, or that it's not fun for people who purchase it.

The PS3 has not been successfully hyped; in fact I would call Sony totally clueless; they missed the ball at several oppurtunities to create momentum. A low number of purchase-ready units at kick off (and that fact this was almost hyped before the release date) also hurt them, as this dashed many people's hopes about getting one ASAP. I for one didn't even know that there were any units presently languishing on store shelves. I assumed they would be virtually unavailable until late spring or early summer at least, and so I resigned myself to that fate, consoled in the fact that by then maybe most of the early bugs will have been found and rectified. And I have a few co-workers and friends who've said the same exact thing.

I also know that a lot of the more-pragmatic, less-motivated-by-hype, console fans out there (who are more inclined toward more "adult" [i.e., less cartoony] content anyway) also voiced intentions of waiting a season or two before buying a PS3 in the hopes that bugs would be identified and corrected. I don't remember hearing any Wii-heads who, prior to its release, said they were going to wait for the bugs to be worked out of the console's first production run. I think we will be hearing a great deal of complaints about issues with the hardware, peripherals, etc. in coming months. But I could be wrong, and if I am, then kudos to Nintendo for releasing a high-quality set of gear from the get-go.

Sony took a lot of risks with the way they handled the PS3. Some of their decisions (or apparrent lack thereof) were wise, some unwise. Thinks may look bleak now, but once the new batch of games are released by developers, things should pick up for the PS3. And a year from now I think things will be looking a LOT different

I had a N64 in college, my roommates told me how much it sucked but it got way more usage than one of my roommate's Playstation. I never even seen the default title screen (in games that had title screen changes as you unlocked stuff) for some of my N64 games because the roommate who told me on a daily basis that my N64 sucked also would take my new games off my desk and take them out of the packaging (shrink wrap and all) to play them at night when everyone else was sleeping! Apparently I wasn't even allowed to be the first person to play my own games!? When I got Mario Kart 64, the same roommate actually invited 3 of his friends, who were visiting at the time, to play my brand new game with him. Yep, the N64 must have sucked really bad.

Today's dollars mean nothing. We didn't pay for the old consoles in today's dollars nor are we paying for today's consoles in yesterday's dollars. Adjusting for inflation is a useless exercise in trying to justify a price, especially when it comes to electronics which typically see price drops as time goes on.

bahr:One does not need to "astroturf" for something that ALREADY HAS a "grass roots following." That's kind of where the term came from, dingus. You get detention. Go to wikipedia and learn what this stuff means and then come back when you're up to speed.

PS3 looks cool and I will buy one. I am just waiting for a reason (final fantasy or grand theft auto) to buy one.

Right now the games that are out for it remind me of gyromite and duck hunt. Sony isn't going bankrupt anytime soon and the new playstation is a much better system overall it just needs some time for the new software titles to get released.

Meanwhile I will sit here and pray that someone over at Lucas Arts pulls their head out of their butt and decides to start developing KOTOR 3 for the playstation....probably won't happpen but I can always dream...

BlindMan: Not sure about that, I picked up Viva Pinata (ostensibly for the lady friend) and soon found myself having fun planning a full scale if homosexually pastel toned ecosystem. Many 'adult' games seem to be more of the see-and-shoot variety.

Viva pinata is one of those rare (snicker) games that straddles the fence.

It's simple, and yet, complex at the same time. Like harvest moon.

When I think "high level of complexity", I'm thinking about things like oblivion.

DireI don't remember hearing any Wii-heads who, prior to its release, said they were going to wait for the bugs to be worked out of the console's first production run.

Removing all fanboys from the equation, Nintendo has a much better track record with hardware than Sony does - incredibly better. For the record, there have been some isolated problems with the Wii, including a system update that bugged out and removed online functionality (Nintendo responded fairly quickly) and the bullshiat "I'm too stupid to hold on to my controller" wriststrap debacle. Anybody except the most extreme Sony fans know it's safer to wait until after the launch window to get a Playstation unit.

Someone needs to explain to me how any of these consoles are better than my PC gaming rig.

/recent convert//not bein a dick, just curious to know///wiimote does look pretty cool////how long till cool turns to annoying?

Not possible, anyone who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. No one really cares about how much storage capacity a Blu-Ray disk has in comparison to HD-DVD. Similarly, it doesn't matter if the PS3 is capable of generating graphics .5% superior to the 360. This thread has been mostly filled with technical jargon that, when boiled down, is nothing more then "My dick is bigger then yours".

I prefer the 360 myself for gaming. It's not too expensive, it doesn't saddle me with technology I have no use for and most of my friends have accounts on XBox Live. Halo 2 and Gears of War are great casual shooters that are just fun to play online.

That doesn't make the 360 superior or inferior to other platforms. My gaming rig is used for competitive FPS, the PS2 gives me my required RPG intake and the Wii/Gamecube is great for parties. Each system has a particular niche to fill and I enjoy all of them.

The PS3 will eventually have some kick-ass titles on it. When that day comes, the price may have dropped to something that I'd consider paying. Right now it's just too expensive and I have no need for any High-Definition DVD system.

Still a drop in the bucket. The main reason is curiosity from people that bought a PS3... movies are cheaper than the games by a 3-to-1 margin, so if you want to show it off, you'll buy a movie or two for it.

I'd be surprised though, to hear that they managed to sell an more than an avarage of 1 per "player".

PS3 sales outpaced the hottest HD-DVD player, the Xbox-360 add on unit... but while every person buying an HD-DVD add on unit will buy and watch HD-DVD movies (since there is no other use), not all PS3 owners will, nor was that the primary reason most of them bought their PS3.

Basically, you can't read much into the early numbers on media sales... a curiosity buyer may not buy more Blu-Ray titles after an initial purchase or two, and because of the nature of the PS3, we have no real measure of what percentage of owners are curiosity BD buyers, BD Enthusiasts, or how many are not interested in BD at all and just bought the PS3 to play games.

Judging by the pre-PS3 sales of Samsung players, I'd expect the number of people "genuinely excited" about BD is pretty low, possibly lower than those HD-DVD enthusiasts who had to be - since they spent real cash specifically for a player.

I've always been more of a PC gamer until I bought a xbox a while back. It was pre-modded so I can easily rip the games straight to the hard drive. It also has a switch that allows me to go online. I've never bought a single game for it and I only paid $250.

I'm just going to wait until I can do that with another console. If not, I always have my PC.

DireBasically what it boils down to is that compared to the PS3, the Wii was primarily marketed to kids and teens

The rest of your post I completely agree with but on this I highly disagree. The thing with the Wii is, it wasn't marketed to anyone specific, at all. And that is why Nintendo's PR and marketing team should all have gotten a Benz this year for Christmas, because it really and truly is a console for anyone.

The thing that absolutely amazed me the most was over the Christmas break. Some friends had their parents in town. They are in their 60's and have never touched nor had the desire to play videogames, ever. After watching us play Wii tennis for 5 minutes, they wanted in. We played pretty much every night they were here, and when they went home they got one. They are in their 60's. That just flabberghasted me and I really have to tip my hat to Nintendo for being able to tap a market that other companies seem to have dismissed as impenetrable. Personally, I thought that they were doomed in the non-handheld department after Gamecube. I like watching the underdog make a comeback.

Nintendo does seem to be very good at making sure their products can stand up well to the wear and tear (and even abuse) that consoles are so often subject to.

With the latest generation of consoles and the new (and presumably more delicate) vital bits inside them, I'm a bit wary about any first batch out of the factory, no matter which manufacturer. Of course I'd give Nintendo more benefit of the doubt than Sony in this regard.

I adored Super Mario 64 and Wave Race was a great party game. The N64 delivered some great games that I still play on occasion. The PS1, not so much. There were some great games on it, but a combination of factors just led to the system not being that enjoyable. The PS2 was a great turn around in my eyes. It fixed a lot of the issues I had with the PS1.

But then, I bought my PS1 from some shady Afghani at a street mall in Kuwait City. 1 PAL PS1 and 50 games for roughly $99. Maybe that had something to do with it.

FarkinFarker Ok, so your argument is that the Atari 2600 came out for $200, which is $600 in today's dollars. This is the thing though. After the atari came out, computers were easily $1500 and up... after taking into account inflation, 3k in today's dollars. Nobody spends 3k on a computer anymore but serious gamers and video editors. I spent $600 on mine. My point is, electronics have decreased in price over the years, despite inflation. So the PS3 is overpriced in comparison. Make sense?

Yeah, being wary is definitely understandable. I've always found it incredibly amusing that I haven't cleaned my NES or its games in over 10 years and it still starts relatively easily yet people's PSX and PS2 units were dying left and right. Even taking the "more moving parts" argument into the equation for the newer consoles, the NES was designed under a mandate to "build it as cheaply as possible".

Darth_Beavis:PS3 looks cool and I will buy one. I am just waiting for a reason (final fantasy or grand theft auto) to buy one.

I remember when Sony failed to get GTA's exclusivity deal renewed. Back then, all the Sony people were in damage control mode and, as far as I am concerned, rightfully so. There are three reasons why I bought a PSP: the first being Lumines, which I still play, the second being video playback on a great screen (I fly a lot so I figured that having a multifunctional video playback device would come in handy - turns out, it's much more practical to just take my laptop, especially since some airlines have WiFi and USB in business and first). And the third being GTA:LCS. Right now, I don't see a reason to ever buy a Sony system again. Even if the 360 and the PS3 had the same MSRP, I'd still choose the 360. That's right: I'd rather give my hard-earned dollars to Microsoft. Talk about ruining your image, Sony.

Panadero:Removing all fanboys from the equation, Nintendo has a much better track record with hardware than Sony does - incredibly better. For the record, there have been some isolated problems with the Wii, including a system update that bugged out and removed online functionality (Nintendo responded fairly quickly) and the bullshiat "I'm too stupid to hold on to my controller" wriststrap debacle. Anybody except the most extreme Sony fans know it's safer to wait until after the launch window to get a Playstation unit.

Aside from the battery issue (ie. the Wii appears to not eat cheap batteries), I haven't had any problem with the Wii. Yeah, I can crash the browser but that's pretty much expected since it's beta software. Other than that, I haven't had any issues.

So here's my take on this whole thing: I owned a regular old nintendo for about 5 years, then sold it and all the games when I was 12. I only rarely played computer games until I got to college, at which point I took up various games at different points - some FPSs, some RTSs, and of course, the sims and worms. After college, without a group of friends to play with at my disposal at all times, I stopped playing games again. Until my boyfriend showed me his DS this year and then I got one for my birthday. I was hooked. Personally, and maybe this is because I'm a chick, I much prefer the puzzle and childlike and just plain imaginitive games that nintendo puts out. I'm tired of FPS games. I outgrew them. But I've been playing bombermanland touch and I love it. My sister used to hate when her husband wanted to play video games all the time, but they bought a wii and now they game together. Honestly, I want a Wii. More precisely, I want my boyfriend to buy a wii. Because I'm greedy.

I was going to respond, but mesmer242 summed up what I was going to say. There is more to take into account than "things are more expensive today" or "dollars were comparatively worth more back then".

Even taking that into consideration, Nintendo is still the least expensive option. The fact that their pricing has remained relatively constant for 20 years means they're not only beating inflation but also making a profit while doing it. I don't know your intentions for making the post, but it seemed to be some sort of justification for the PS3's price, which it is most certainly not.

If someone won't hang with me because I own Rayman I'd probably ask myself why the hell would I hang with them in the first place. If putting up a front to someone else makes you feel better then be someone else!!!

mesmer242:FarkinFarker Ok, so your argument is that the Atari 2600 came out for $200, which is $600 in today's dollars. This is the thing though. After the atari came out, computers were easily $1500 and up... after taking into account inflation, 3k in today's dollars. Nobody spends 3k on a computer anymore but serious gamers and video editors. I spent $600 on mine. My point is, electronics have decreased in price over the years, despite inflation. So the PS3 is overpriced in comparison. Make sense?

Good point. Just walk today's prices of console backwards... Gamecube, Xbox and PS2's are equivalent to $40 purchases in 1978. Wii is $85, and the Xbox 360 is $100. VCRs today cost about $50, in 1978, however, they were $1000, which is $3000 in today's money, right? DVD players cost much less today too, and are far more capable than players that came out in 1997. In the scale of things, the whole "..b-b-b-b-but Atari 2600 price!!!" sputtering is not just lame, but idiotic when tryingot defend the PS3's high price.

I still stand by my assertion... I didn't say it was aimed only at one particular demographic; They didn't focus like a laser with their marketing, it was more like scattershot, with the primary aim being toward a younger crowd, in terms of the advertising and the game content. Of course it has a much wider appeal, but the fact that normally semi-curmudgeonly 60-year-olds are into it doesn't really mean anything except that it is something that is safe and simple enough for a senior citizen to immensely enjoy, which isn't necessarily an attractive quality for a console *in my opinion* (though it may make it a 'must-have' for many people)...

We all want and don't want certain things from our game systems. The things a typical Sonyhead may want might be stuff a typical Wiihead doesnt, and vice versa. Or the things that one gamer might want/need/like/dislike/hate might be totally irrelevant to the other. BluRay may be a "so what" issue to some people. Some people don't care about price gap, as long as the quality of the hardware and software is top notch. And some people are brand whores.

I think people should avoid hype and look at all the specs, features, predicted reliability and durability, and general game content, and then pick the one that most closely meets what they desire at the price they can afford.

If you're talking about price, then no, there isn't anything more to consider than inflation and relative costs.

My whole reason for posting was because you decided to "correct" someone who pointed out that the NES wasn't cheap when it came out either. They're right, and no amount of circumlocution on your part will change that.

I don't need to justify anything to anyone. If we all collectively decide the ps3 is an amazing POS, it won't make sony change the price. I'm not here to change your mind, just point out the facts. What you do with them is up to you.

I'm a video engineer so I am a bit of a nut when it comes to picture quality. So my views can be something to the extreme. I am rooting for Blu-Ray so I am biased, however your statement is factually wrong.

1) HD-DVD's interaction system is a bit better than Blu-Ray. ?

I don't get what you are saying here. If it's machine interaction then it's null point (menus etc). If it's speed and operability Blu has command. Higher bit rate and read speeds. Picture quality will always be higher with blu ray. (albeit most people will not notice)

2) Capacity isn't an issue, since both formats can add more layers down the road.

Can be an issue for certain, this ties into the bit rate issue as well. Less compression on the signal = larger file size = higher quality image.

3) HD-DVDs are as cheap to make as DVDs, but BDs cost over 10x as much to press.

Not true, inflated figure. Actually once more production kicks in Blu will cost the same as DVD dics currently.

4) Sony just screwed over it's hardware Blu-Ray partners by dumping a $500 player onto the market - no secret either that the player is costing Sony $250-300 per unit. If I was Samsung and their other Blu-Ray partners, I'd be calling Toshiba to get on the HD-DVD train, because my $1000 players are just going to sit on shelves now.

I actually think it's a smart move by sony. The ps3 puts out a 1080p signal. Right now the only available player for HD-DVD is 1080i which is approximately half the image quality of 1080p. If I were to want to deliver a knockout blow to HD-DVD I would go this route. (The toshiba player costs mid 500$)

5) Porn backs HD-DVD (Conversely, Sony shuns Porn). It's not as big as they say, but it is a factor. Today, more porn is dealt through your web browser, but DVDs are still a hot market, and when deciding which player to get, who wants to cut out the possibility of HD porn?

There has been talks of porn backing of Blu ray as well. Sony has stopped it's partners from offering porn. Non partner players are still in the running.

6) While both consortiums are DRM-crazy, HD-DVD's DRM has already shown some leaks, and we know that Sony-backed Blu-Ray is going to be heavy on the restrictions, after the rootkit fiasco. Point here goes to HD-DVD for well-informed customers.

DRM is a non issue unless you want to pirate your disc.... Unless sony does something stupid like the automatic software installing type stuff stunt again. I don't think this will effect much of the population at large.

7) Cost. HD-DVD players are cheaper becuase they cost less to make. They have room to drop even further. Blu-Ray doesn't have the luxury, and the less momentum they have, the harder it is to produce the yields that drive production pricing. Blu-Ray will always chase HD-DVD players in price, even when a giant like Sony dumps product to promote it.

So far HD--DVD players are cheaper because they are still using cheaper technology. Let's compare notes once some of the 1080p players hit compared to Blu Ray players in 6 months.

8) Neither format has excited the public, so dumping strategies will only make matters worse. Sony gambled and they will probably lose big. Currently, they are $500 MILLION in the hole, and it doesn't look to get any better anytime soon. I'd be surprised if BD movie sales have topped $1 million, and that's gross, not net. It gets better: Sony is now trying to dump movies to spur growth and demand for players, but it probably won't work and will only bleed them even more. In the end, whatever mementum Sony does achieve will last as long as their cash flow does. At this rate, I can't see it lasting much more than a year or so.

It's not a Sony only format. Thus the war will possibly be drawn out. However I think the players in the Blu Ray ring will outlast HD-DVD. I figure Microsoft's support of HD-DVD is merely from the financial standpoint... They could have either been a minor player in Blu-Ray or the major player for HD-DVD.

Dental_FlossTycoon Waiting for Halo 3, then I will upgrade to the XBOX 360, although, the girlfriend really, really, really wants a Wii.

Ok let me explain the facts of life to you youngins. Forget about the 360, forget about the Piece-o-Shiite 3. When the Girl wants the Wii, you drop what your doing and give her the damn Wii, just give it to her, easy at first and then give'r as much Wii as she can handle. If you arent willing to give her the Wii then back off of that damn relationship and let some other responsible farker give her the Wii instead cause there are plenty of volunteers. An you can go back to spankin yer controller on somethin else.

And _that's_the_way_the_cookie_crumbles:I remember when Sony failed to get GTA's exclusivity deal renewed. Back then, all the Sony people were in damage control mode and, as far as I am concerned, rightfully so. There are three reasons why I bought a PSP: the first being Lumines, which I still play, the second being video playback on a great screen (I fly a lot so I figured that having a multifunctional video playback device would come in handy - turns out, it's much more practical to just take my laptop, especially since some airlines have WiFi and USB in business and first). And the third being GTA:LCS. Right now, I don't see a reason to ever buy a Sony system again. Even if the 360 and the PS3 had the same MSRP, I'd still choose the 360. That's right: I'd rather give my hard-earned dollars to Microsoft. Talk about ruining your image, Sony.

Wow, I ditched my laptop for a PSP and I LOOOOOVE it.

I got sick of hauling the heavy thing around and having to pull it out at every security checkpoint.

The Wii is fantastic on a social level because it gets kids off the couch and gets them back to moving around like they're supposed to. They won't play with a ball outside, but give them Wii tennis and a tv screen and suddenly they're working up a sweat.

/plans on basing his console decision on which hd format offers more pr0n.