We have Kolkata class which can lick the butt of your third rate type 52D. Brahmos can break it into two just by shear kinetic energy.. Kilo class is called black hole by western countries because of its stealthiness. Your third rate Chinese subs have technology of 1970 era soviet submarines. Soviet expert said this. So do not get over joyous with third rate technology. China copies even pencil cell. I am sure that you must be very proud of your copied weapon of Russian technology of seventies.

In front of Chinese type 052D destroyer in which all systems are home-made, the Indian Kolkata class destroyer is a joke as all its major systems imported from overseas supplier as well as the warship-grade steel imported from Russia, that's why only 3 built so far.

China is a five times bigger economy and its navy have multitude of threats to contain before even think about Indian navy. Also, geography is not favorable to them in IOR. So, it's never a one to one fight.

Beside Russia, if there is any other country knowing best with Kilo, I think it is China, not India.

Not everyone is qualified for copying. E.g. SA-6 missile, how long India spent to copy it? more than 30 years?

China copied Ukraine's UGT25000(M80) gas turbine engine for 052C/D destroyer. If I remember correct, Kolkata uses M36E which is much older than M80. It is your freedom to laugh China copying technologies from former CCCP counties, but I would also like to mention that the military equipment India bought from Russia or Ukraine is not always better than the counterpart one China copied.

Click to expand...

Help us understand, lets say India China war breaks out. What will Chinese navy do? How many and which ships do you think CN will deploy? In your opinion how do u think CN will take down IN?

Help us understand, lets say India China war breaks out. What will Chinese navy do? How many and which ships do you think CN will deploy? In your opinion how do u think CN will take down IN?

Click to expand...

Sorry, I don't know the answer of your question since I never thought about it. I think the probability of the war between India and China is zero, and I cannot think about any scenario that the war can be triggered. For territory, even there is a certain mount of so called disputed territory existed, but for the area occupied by India, China has no interest to acquire. For national interest, south Asia and west Asia are not the core national interest of China. East Asia and South China sea are much much more important, especially Taiwan is still an outstanding problem. I cannot think the possible situation which can result in a decision from China government to open the war with India. And for the battle between India navy and China Navy, It maybe only exist in another parallel universe.

@cuibw99
Chinese home built technology will always be deprecated compared to the imported and joint produced things India has. Most Chinese home built tech just have input of Chinese scientists only, China is not known for scientists but for hardworking workers. India does not export much compared to China so China has a higher currency 1 Yuan = 9.39 Rupee. An Indian does not pay in Dollars but pays in rupee, Indian economy grows and exists in Rupee. If you compare Indian economy and Chinese without the currency difference. Then
Indian economy is almost half of China in local Currency, If you remove all the assembling and labour work done by China for others, then Chinese economy may be only 40% bigger than India. India has more fertile and arable land compared to China.

China is just India like region the Han Chinese area and mostly waste lands in Tibet Xinjiang Central China and outer Mongolia.

Chinese workers built great wall of China with hardwork and sacrifice. Some smart person made gunpowder and cannon, and whole hardwork made Great wall of China became deprecated. History is repeating since most of the semiconductor fabs in China are loss making. So Chinese government used fastest supercomputer gimmick to use Chips from these loss making fabs. The truth is making the fastest Supercomputer is just using a lot of chips from Chinese loss making semiconductor fabs.

When India buys something from Israel or West, that product has input from brain power of best scientists of the world. While Chinese home made stuff has just Chinese brain power + some reverse engineering.

Nuclear subs are not better than smaller submarines, Nuclear subs are more noisy and smaller submarine which run on battery and engine can easily take down nuclear subs. Nuclear subs have just one use long range.

China thinks it can beat USA while the truth is USA is not alone there is NATO. most of Europe, North America and south America is White people and Australia and New zealand and South Africa are White. These white nations will support USA and they use Chinese to just assemble and as labour force. China thinks having a half GDP of USA is equal to beating the west, but in reality West is Europe + North America + South America + Australia etc all these.

Chinese home built technology will always be deprecated compared to the imported and joint produced things India has.

Click to expand...

Yes, majority of Chinese home built technologies cannot compete with the counterpart technology from western developed countries. This is true, and I think Chinese people do know this. China had little home built technologies 30 years before, and right now China has quite a few with decent quality. Competing with western technologies is not what China except to achieve for now, and I think what China has been doing in recent 30 years and will be doing in later 30 years is catching up the distance with western technologies and gaining the ability to compete with them in the future.

When India buys something from Israel or West, that product has input from brain power of best scientists of the world.

Click to expand...

I don't think the important thing is how advanced product India can buy from western counties. The important thing is how these "brain power of best scientists of the world" can accelerate India's home built technologies. India bought western technology 30 years before, and India buy western technology right now, then how about 30 years later? still buying ?

No, I don't think much more Chinese people have this kind of understanding, at least nobody around me believe this. For GDP, I feel like most Chines people believe there are lots of foams in it, especially for the people living in the first-tier city experiencing the crazy real estate market. So I think normally people won't make the judgement that China capable beating US based on the meaningless GDP number.

Yes, majority of Chinese home built technologies cannot compete with the counterpart technology from western developed countries. This is true, and I think Chinese people do know this. China had little home built technologies 30 years before, and right now China has quite a few with decent quality. Competing with western technologies is not what China except to achieve for now, and I think what China has been doing in recent 30 years and will be doing in later 30 years is catching up the distance with western technologies and gaining the ability to compete with them in the future.

I don't think the important thing is how advanced product India can buy from western counties. The important thing is how these "brain power of best scientists of the world" can accelerate India's home built technologies. India bought western technology 30 years before, and India buy western technology right now, then how about 30 years later? still buying ?

No, I don't think much more Chinese people have this kind of understanding, at least nobody around me believe this. For GDP, I feel like most Chines people believe there are lots of foams in it, especially for the people living in the first-tier city experiencing the crazy real estate market. So I think normally people won't make the judgement that China capable beating US based on the meaningless GDP number.

Click to expand...

You seems like a good person, many Pakistanis are false-flagging as Chinese and others, to argue with Indians. They want to play China against India, but I know Chinese are too smart to be played.

China has to develop home made weapons because China can't buy from the west. If China can buy from Russia then China is more than willing to buy from west. India has brought both Russian and Western weapons, Russian weapons are totally deprecated compared to western weapons. Russian technology is surviving due to USSR heritage. Now that USSR is gone Russian technology has become at-least 20 years back to Western tech. Have you seen any Russian civilian technology like Mobile phone etc ? China has mostly caught up with Russian technology but it is impossible to catch the west. Western technology is increasing very faster than Russia. Russian technological growth has almost stopped after collapse of USSR.

We Indians first tried making things on our own, but slowly we understood that in isolation a country becomes backward in technology. Output of Isolated brains will be deprecated compared to output of networked brains. Isolated Indian brains will remain 25 years behind western technology. China can do better than India but still China will remain at-least 20 years behind western technology.

We Indians don't buy stuff off the shelf but we insist on technology transfer. Tech transfer can put India on level with western technology. Any additional research will better our technology. Many western tech companies are competing with each other, so we conduct a competition, then chose second best on the condition of tech transfer.

You don't need to worry the battle capability of the 094 SSBN as there are at least 4 submarines in service. As for the 093B nuclear attack submarine (SSN), at least 3 or 4 submarines are in service. You had to worry where the hell the Indian nuclear submarine is, it must be still in the shipyard by 2020. Oh, I remember there is one hired from Russia, but I don't think it has a chance to leave the port if the war starts.

3 094 SSBN submarines in the port

Click to expand...

Your noisy Soviet era 70 submarines will give Indian sub's some easy target practice. When Indian submarine defeated US sub in exercise than where is the class of third rate Chinese submarine?

By the way, India credit rating close to Junk. You should be proud for it.

Standard & Poor's
For S&P, a bond is considered investment grade if its credit rating is BBB- or higher. Bonds rated BB+ and below are considered to be speculative grade, sometimes also referred to as "junk" bonds.

Moody's
For Moody's, a bond is considered investment grade if its credit rating is Baa3 or higher. Bonds rated Ba1 and below are considered to be speculative grade, sometimes also referred to as "junk" bonds.

Chinese show off the latest home-made weapon here, such as 052D destroyer, 093BSSN , 094 SSBN, while you show off the outdated Russian Kilo without AIP here and feel no shame about it.

What you said here just brings the shame to your people and country. Nothing to reply for you.

Click to expand...

We have nuclear attack submarines for that contingency AND you forgot one thing -- China has to distribute her Navy defending her own waters from a US / Japan attack while trying to do any of these misadventures. Otherwise it is going to be another Nanjing for them.

Not everyone is qualified for copying. E.g. SA-6 missile, how long India spent to copy it? more than 30 years?

China copied Ukraine's UGT25000(M80) gas turbine engine for 052C/D destroyer. If I remember correct, Kolkata uses M36E which is much older than M80. It is your freedom to laugh China copying technologies from former CCCP counties, but I would also like to mention that the military equipment India bought from Russia or Ukraine is not always better than the counterpart one China copied.

Click to expand...

The problem with Chinese copies are that they are of dubious quality. China has no history of fighting any naval conflict successfully and all her weapons are of dubious quality. Any major naval conflict between India and China will escalate into a world war with US and Japan too. Good luck China, you will need it. Hope it is not another Nanjing.

I don't know how you get this confidence. Have you ever carefully compared Kolkata with 052D? As far as I know, Kolkata use AK630 which has already been deprecated in China for destroyer(China use 1130 CIWS + HHQ-10). Has Israel's Barak-8 finished all the testing? Btw, is Barak-8's maximum speed Mach 2? Without Russia's engine and parts, can India produce Brahmos independently? For radar, do you really believe Israel's EL/M-2248 MF-STAR is better than 052D's type 346A?

What I heard about Kolkata class, the radar comes from either Israel or British, anti-air missile comes from Israel, VLS system comes from US, naval gun comes from Russia, engine from Ukraine, the steels of the ship comes from Russia, the fire controlling system is the combination of British/US/French/Israel, The design of the ship body comes from Italy, and the Shipborne Command System comes from Canada. If majority of above are true, how India can highly depend on this vessel which has huge number of external dependencies.

I has been avoiding to dispute and compare particular equipment here because the dispute will be always meaningless and endless. But I still cannot control myself saying lots of things this time.

Click to expand...

None of the parts are Made in China, this is why it is highly dependable

Beside Russia, if there is any other country knowing best with Kilo, I think it is China, not India.

Not everyone is qualified for copying. E.g. SA-6 missile, how long India spent to copy it? more than 30 years?

China copied Ukraine's UGT25000(M80) gas turbine engine for 052C/D destroyer. If I remember correct, Kolkata uses M36E which is much older than M80. It is your freedom to laugh China copying technologies from former CCCP counties, but I would also like to mention that the military equipment India bought from Russia or Ukraine is not always better than the counterpart one China copied.

Click to expand...

Copying stuff doesn't means its better. Translation is "It is bad than what its copying". As for quality, when it says Made in china everyone knows the case.

China has to develop home made weapons because China can't buy from the west.

Click to expand...

Yes, this is correct. After the famous Tiananmen incident, the dream for buying advance weapon or parts from western countries exploded, which introduced much more painful. E.g. lacking for USA LM2500 gas turbine engine, which resulted in completely stopping to build Type 052 destroyer, until the successfully imported and copied similar engine from Ukraine. Depending on external technology and equipment felt like our neck was being tightly hold by other people, which was extremely danger and uncomfortable.

If China can buy from Russia then China is more than willing to buy from west.

Click to expand...

This is not 100% correct. Yes, if Russia would like to sell nuclear submarine technologies to China, I am sure China do want to buy. But buying is only the path, not the purpose, not the goal. the purpose is accelerating the speed to build our own and the goal is getting the quality of our own built stuff is able to compete with western power.

These days, Chinese military fans have a kind of bad behavior of criticizing everything which needs external dependency. E.g. many people discontented very much about the quality and performance of WS-10 series engine. China has no problem to buy AL-31F engine from Russia, but every time there is news coming out about buying more AL-31F from Russia, a torrent of abuse will appear immediately.

China has mostly caught up with Russian technology but it is impossible to catch the west.

Click to expand...

This maybe true. It is possible no matter how hard China works, China's home built stuff always cannot compete with western powers. From my personal opinion, I can accept the reality that we always fail to catch up with

western powers after trying our best. If this is the case, so be it, the world is crucial, I don't have regret. But I cannot accept is always buying the most advanced technologies from western powers and always depending on their products even their products are sure the best.

We Indians don't buy stuff off the shelf but we insist on technology transfer.

Click to expand...

I don't think it is so easy to have wither western countries or Russia transferring the top level technology to India. At least this kind of things never happened to China even China was the close ally of either CCCP after the Korea war or USA in 1980s. But maybe India is different. let's see how things go with Russia's T-50 stealth fighter.

Any major naval conflict between India and China will escalate into a world war with US and Japan too. Good luck China, you will need it. Hope it is not another Nanjing.

Click to expand...

As I mentioned before, the possibility of the war triggered between India and China is zero since west and south Asia is not the core national interest of China. but if India would like to test the quality of China's weapon, feel free to come and we are welcome.

As I mentioned before, the possibility of the war triggered between India and China is zero since west and south Asia is not the core national interest of China. but if India would like to test the quality of China's weapon, feel free to come and we are welcome.

Click to expand...

We are busy in increasing our strength and we do not have any time to test anything of anyone. Next few years are going to be very important as we could not develop according to our potential because of poor vision of our leadership and spineless and corrupt governments. Now the things are set right and next decade is going to be very crucial as we are fighting on many front. We have to eliminate our poverty, we have to make our country dirt free and clean, we need to conserve a lots of water and make forest and rebuild our lakes and bring all those lost glory for which were famous once upon a time. We have rogue nations and they are in alignment with a sole purpose to harm us. We have to manage them as well. We do not have any time to test anything of anyone. What we need to do is to strengthen our weak areas so that our rogue enemies can not take advantage of our weaknesses and we do not repeat the mistakes of past.