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03 January 2013

Problems at Passion 2013: Session One with Louie Giglio

If you heard the first session of Passion 2013 with Louie Giglio, you likely found yourself concerned, perhaps even alarmed, by much of what was taught by the popular pastor. His allegorization of Ezekiel 37 alone was enough to make one cringe. Below, Christian apologist and host of Fighting for the Faith, Chris Rosebrough, reviews some of what was taught by Giglio to 60,000 students on Tuesday night. You may find that Rosebrough articulates well many of your own concerns.

39 comments:

I listened to most of Chris's analysis last night. He did a good job. Here is one thing I picked up on that troubled me greatly. Halfway through, Louis said 'God spoke to me, *in His own language*...' This new Gnostic has not only picked up on the 'God spoke to me' bandwagon but has layered it with a notion of a special Godly language that Louis is able to understand. Remember, all the Gnostics ever want to do is elevate themselves above the hoi polloi by intimating (and outright stating) that they know more than the rest of us who 'only' have the bible, and unfortunately do not have this glowing, personal, intimate, and audible relationship with God that the rest of us poor souls are missing out on.

I am especially saddened because I live in Georgia and I know people who attended this conference.

none of the YouTube videos play on any blogs ever since the New Year on my computer. I have to click on YouTube and listen. It's not a problem to do this but I'm just wondering if anyone else is encountering the same problem? Thanks

NO visions or supposed words from God trump the Word of God.

By the way I thought that we were to live by FAITH not by Sight.

Rom 10:17 "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."

This vision casting nonsense has absolutely nothing to do with the Lord. All these vision casters are doing is flattening all of Scripture to fit (their)vision.

First off, I have to say that I had never heard of these men, i.e. Driscoll, MacDonald, Noble, Furtick, Giglio, etc., until I watched the video of the Elephant Room from a link given on the Grace to You Blog, and from also reading your blog here, which is very informative. The two words that come to mind concerning these men: false teachers. After listening to the entire discourse above, I have to agree with Chris's analysis of this session with Giglio. I listened in awe, mouth agape... this man was so far off, it wasn't just ambiguous, it was pure false teaching of the Word of God. Mysticism is right! I bet most of those young people came away saying, "What in the world did this guy just say to us?"

None of it made any sense.... calling sin "foolishness". I could go on and on... however, my heart is heavy for these kids that are attending this conference, and listening to this damning heresy under the guise of evangelical Christianity. I will be praying for someone there to give them the truth of salvation, because they sure will not get it from Giglio. This is very sad indeed...

To finish that thought, Paul was warning believers, like Erin does, about heresy and heretics. These new gnostics are trying to create a reputation for superior sanctity, not honoring God but satisfying their flesh.Buyer beware!Pam

I know that Gnosticism is heresy but not everyone who is practicing Gnosticism is a heretic. In fact there are some gullible Christians out there into Gnosticism out of ignorance. What's the difference in a false teacher and a heretic?

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.

2Pe 2:2 Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.

2Pe 2:3 In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.

Here are 2 great videos on the false practice of "vision casting" which to me is a euphemism for fortunetelling as Chris so articulately states::

John Crowder was not at Passion 2013. oops. Chris messed that up, right out of the gate.Many other things Chris is saying is out of context. One thing Chris does mention is to listen to the session for yourselves, for context. I heartily agree.

Hey Linda, from what I have read and understand, the difference depends on what is being taught and the motive.People, with no selfish motive or intent, can teach something that is false due to lack of knowledge and we certainly all make mistakes. It depends on what they are mistaken about which will determine their condition. They can be sincere but sincerely wrong in some circumstances. So it is the content of what they believe that determines their condition. That is why doctrine is so important. Heretics, when confronted with Scripture, still adhere to what they teach. They are teaching heresy for personal gain,ie: to make money or gain status or to find ways to justify themselves before God other than what the Scriptures teach. And that is what is heretical. They deny who Jesus Christ really is. They, in their own vain imagination, and not according to what the Scriptures say, set up their own "Jesus". Their "Jesus" isn't powerful enough to save and to keep them. Their "Jesus" needs help,ie:the legalists and the pietous who think they can add something. Like Paul said, they have the appearance of godliness but without power. The Judaizers of Galatians would be an example.Again, this is my understanding and I am certainly not the last word.Hope this helps.Pam

I mostly disagree with you...Jesus died to save us from our sins and develop a relationship with us. The Gospel IS about finding our purpose, Jesus tells us to become fishers of men instead of fishermen, to change our priorities in life and follow Him instead, and share the gospel with all nations. Making Jesus known isn't about fame, it's about letting everyone on the planet know about the incredible gift he has given us of grace and redemption. You are being extremely condescending. The Holy Spirit lives within us, prophesy and speaking in tongues and visions are absolutely in the bible. Louie is saying he received a vision that is backed up by scripture, that God can do immeasurably more than we imagine. That GOD can do that, not that we can. You are the one taking it out of context, not him.

The Gospel is about Christ and him crucified. It is about being redeemed by the blood of Jesus. It is about us being justified, glorified, sanctified and so forth. Our purpose is to preach the Gospel and if we do not know what the GOSPEL is or the doctrine of Jesus Christ then we do not have God.

I would suggest to you to seek the truth of God word from the Word of God and not follow a man or men. If we preach another Jesus we preach another gospel. Teresa

Anonymous is correct. The Gospel is NOT about us it's all about Christ

a Christian is no longer a seeker trying to find purpose but a possessor of the truth - when he walks by the word of God and in the Spirit. A believer in Christ does not call himself a spiritual seeker (beginner or seasoned) and nor does he call himself someone searching for purpose because we have found the truth in Jesus Christ. Jesus Is our purpose and Life! Paul said - "To Live is CHRIST and to die is gain"~

But this is what this movement is about--- they are restless wanderers and in their own restlessness are keeping others restless by not sharing the "words of eternal life" when Jesus said "come to ME"-and "I will give you REST". Only Jesus fully satiates our inner hunger and gives us true purpose and meaning in life. they continue their spiritual journey seeking, searching, and keep people in bondage by making one think its all a relentless journey in finding "our purpose". Pro 12:11 He who works his land will have abundant food, but he who chases fantasies lacks judgment."

In the Old Testament What happened to all who did not BELIEVE? They wandered restlessly in the desert until they all died. God swore In Heb.3:11 "So I declared on oath in my anger, 'They shall never enter my rest.'

Hbr 4:1 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it.

Ok so you start a critique of someone else's message with a incorrect statement. You then go on to take a portion of his message and make fun of him for talking about how passion started. Ok i would understand if every message was all about Louie, but i have heard many of his messages and they are all about jesus. But you can take a small part of anybody's statement and say they are talking about themselves. Next saying that you are praying and contemplating something and you think god is telling you to do something does not mean you are saying you are literally hearing god. If you walk up to Louie and ask him if he has ever literally heard gods voice i highly doubt he will say he has. Contemplating what god has to say to you through reading scripture is not somebody waiting to literally hear god saying something, it is how can you apply scripture to your life. Its sad that the greatest enemy of the christians are other christians. Yes everything Louie has ever said may not be true. But all i can say is he has done more good in this world and brought more people to Jesus then Chris has ever imagined. And i think the reason for that is because he is sitting at home critiquing other peoples work rather then going out and doing his own conference. This conference raised over 3 million dollars to stop slavery, this critique has brought nobody to god. So to me your critique of Giglio is worse then getting 60,000 college kids to do something good in this world. Oh ps, no i wasn't there and i didn't watch the live stream. I just listened to your critique and the actual message.

It really is kind of sad to see all of this arguing from a bunch of people who were not at Passion saying how wrong their teachings are and how unscriptural they are. First off, I could not tell you far off this whole video of Chris's is. There is a definition of vision that no one, including Chris, seems to be grasping. Vision has multiple meanings. There are visions that are things seen, as in a visual sight. Then there are visions that are ideas or concepts. Clearly, Louie is talking about how he had a vision about what Passion will become, as in he had an IDEA or a CONCEPT that he felt God affirmed with the video at the pastor's conference. This complete misconception in Chris's video screws up the whole argument as he uses this as his basis for why Louie is a false prophet. It is like the difference between having a dream about something (Nebuchadnezzar) and a dream for something (Martin Luther King, Jr.). MLK had a vision or a dream that one day blacks and whites would be able to live as equals. Nebuchadnezzar had a dream or vision that needed to be interpreted. There is a big difference between the two, and it seems as though there are many who have completely missed the actual contextual usage of the word vision all together.

Also, show me where in scripture it talks about false prophets who preach about the abandonment of one's self in order to fully fulfill our purpose in life, which is to ultimately bring God ALL of the glory. Louie and the other speakers talked EXTENSIVELY about how we have to abandon ourselves in order to fully fulfill God's purpose for our lives, which is to bring Him glory. Show me where in scripture it says that our purpose in life is not to bring God the glory. Show me where in Louie's talk he says our purpose in life is not to bring God glory but to lift ourselves up. A major point that Louie was making was talking about how we need to allow ourselves to be healed by the healing hand of Jesus in order use those scarred over/healed wounds as our best tool to show others the importance of Jesus in our lives, which will in turn bring glory to God. Show me where Louie or any of the other speakers at Passion talk about building up our own treasure here on earth. Show me where they talk about lifting ourselves up and making ourselves all warm and fuzzy so we can live the good life. You won't find it anywhere! The reason the whole conference is called Passion is because the goal is to ignite a passion and a fire in college students across America to give up their selves and allow God to use them for His glory and His renown. Isaiah 26:8 says (ESV): "In the path of your judgments, O Lord, we wait for you; Your name and [Your] remembrance are the desire of our soul." How is setting our goal, purpose, and desire of our soul as a goal, purpose, and desire to bring God all His due glory, a bad or unscriptual thing? The Gospel TELLS us our purpose. If we are willing to realize that we cannot save ourselves and that is only by the grace of God and the acceptance of His free gift in the death of His Son, we will find our purpose. Our purpose is to give glory to God, to make ourselves lesser than those around us. Jesus washed the feet of His disciples. He made Himself nothing on our behalf. He then gave all glory to God the Father. He said what He did was by the name of His Father in Heaven. We are also called to be like Jesus, so to me, that means, making myself nothing in order to ultimately bring God all the glory. THIS is the purpose, the reason, for our life that Louie and all the speakers talked about. As John Piper puts it, God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him. Show me how that is unbiblical. You will not be able to.

Now please, don't take this long post as one of anger and rage towards your video and all of these comments. It is of great concern. I worry about things like this. It seems very damaging to the Church, and I believe that it is a type of argument that is just and worthwhile.

Now, do I expect my points to change your mind? Not really, more often than not these things just become a stupid banter session. Do I, at least, expect you to read them and think about them? Yes. Will you? I sure hope and pray you do! I would hope, as brothers and sisters in the Lord that we would be able to have calm, cohesive, biblically founded discussion. Just remember, to consider the viewpoints of both sides. I have watched the video and put a lot of thought into what you mentioned in your video and my points above were two of the main points I came up with.

Chris, I do appreciate your intentions with your video. I do feel it is very important for us to have discernment with every speaker we here and remember to compare them to what we read in scripture. However, I feel you were far off base on these critiques of Passion 2013. Sorry, but that is how I feel.

Anon, You provided only one Scriptural references for your argument that was intended to persuade those of us who believe the Word to discard the Word in favor of some nebulous feeling produced in you by those you chose to listen to and pattern you life after. It is a great "tell" that in all of your carefully chosen words you decided it best to defend a man, Louie Giglio, (or insert the name of any of your favorite preachers) instead of contending for the faith as we are told to do in Jude 1:3. You provided all the buzz words and catch phrases that would indicate an air of spirituality and some form of godliness, but there was no demonstration of the real power of God to free the captive soul from sin and usher them into the real Kingdom of God. You quoted John Piper: "God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in Him." This was from the days when Piper was pushing "Christian Hedonism" but he went on to bigger and better things with Doug Wilson and the Federal Vision. Google "Federal Vision" and see for yourself what Mr. Piper believes. How do you know what the speakers taught you was the truth, because you had a good feeling about them, or maybe they were declared to be "solid" Christians by those around you? Did you even bother to search the Scriptures to see if what they were telling you was so? Did their reputation hold your mind in neutral because they were long time "ministers" and you believed that they would never lead you astray? Or maybe it all just made you feel good and that was good enough for you, afterall you came there to feel good about yourself didn't you? As you stated, the whole purpose of Passion was to ignite college kids to "give up their selves and allow God to use them". How enlightening, thank you for such a glorious revelation!!! Oh, wait, where does it say that we are to "allow" God to do anything? This "allowing God" is the sum and substance of EVERY false gospel and the drum beat of EVERY false prophet. This is an insult and direct attack on the very God whom you purport to serve. Wake up, man!!!! This will take you through the broad gate that leads to destruction ["but it feels so right"]. If it were based upon the Scriptures you would find an ever growing humility toward the Lord, a deepening dependance upon Him alone, a gratitude for being set free from you sins, and an overwhelming fear of any sin entertained in you heart and mind. Don't see this as a valid Christian attitude? Then read the Book of Psalms-all of it-and find out what the real fruit of a Christian looks like. Humility, gratitude, brokenness, and joy that the God who created you has chosen to set you free from your sins. If this were the theme of this conference you so desparately seek to defend there would be no problem. Yet all that is seen is some new experience, a new vision, a new fire, emotions riding high on promises that can never be kept or dreams that can never come true and celebrity figures elevated to new heights who exibit only a false humility so as to deceive those who want to be deceived. How do I know that they have spoken deceitfully? Because people like you come away from this conference defending those you chose to listen to and obey instead of speaking of the glorious Savior who saved you. You have been born again, I hope.

Anon, part two:Why is the Word of God not good enough for you and those at the PC 2013? Why must you add to it by seeking some 'experience' that has no Biblical foundation? Specifically why do need to hear the audible voice of God [god?]? There is an eternity of information and revelation to be had in the written Word and yet that is not enough, Why? Do you not know that Jesus Christ IS THE WORD? John 1:1,2&14. Would you be so bold as to add to Him? That is precisely what was done at PC 2013. Since you seek some experience to validate your "Christian" life, try this one: repentance. The first word of Jesus' public ministry was "Repent" Matt. 4:17. Do you know what it means to repent? Did any of the PC boys/girls speak the word 'repent' & tell you what it means and how you know true repentance from the faux variety? It is not simple sorrow for getting caught in wrong doing. It is not sorrow that you will suffer the consequences for doing wrong. It is so much more. It begins with seeing your inward most self in all of it's filth, it's life-long hatred for the God who created you, it's shaking of your fist in the "face" of God, it's cursing Him at every chance, it's demands on Him that He recognize that you are not as bad as He says you are, and that He usher you into His heaven at your death because you do not like the alternative. It continues with the knowledge of the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ for just such a sinner as yourself, and how He took the punishment that was deserved by you for all the sins you ever committed. He took it all so far away from you and Himself that He gives you His righteousness as a new covering. How do you know repentance was genuine? Not because you shed a tear or two [though there will be many tears] and not because you felt better after it was over and now you can go on and live your life anyway you please because your sin problem has gone away. True godly sorrow that leads to real repentance [2Cor. 7:10] will turn you away from your sins, put a hatred for sin of any kind deep within your newly regenerated heart and will cause you to turn to Jesus Christ for everything, not just a momentary experience. True repentance will become a familiar friend that will be welcomed as many times as needed due to any sin that may crop-up in our lives [1John 1:4-10].

There are so many godly, Biblical experiences waiting for the true believer, why anyone would seek more is beyond comprehension. You seek an experience? how about this one: Heb. 4:12. Has the written Word of God made mince-meat of your ill-gotten ideas and notions about Him that are not to be found in the Scriptures? An experience worthy of seeking. How about Luke 24:32? And Luke 24:45? Both center around the written Word of God and yet, somehow, that is not good enough.

You have been cheated out of the knowledge of the True and Living God by listening to and defending those who have lied to you. Why?

You had a lot to say but .....Anonymous you said The Gospel TELLS us our purpose. If we are willing to realize that we cannot save ourselves and that is only by the grace of God and the acceptance of His free gift in the death of His Son, we will find our purpose.

The gospel tells us our purpose...seriously! you said If "we" are willing to realize....guess what No one seeks after God.. Romans 3:11 We are totally depraved. dead men walking. No one can come to the father unless God draws him first John 6:44 it also has to be granted to him by the father. John 6:65

Eph. 2:8-9 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Wake up and run for you life. You need to dethrone Louie and put God back on the throne...oh he never left. run Run Run for your life.

God really does not care how we feel he does care about his word that is exalted above himself. Teresa

I just wonder if Anonymous honestly believes that arguing for the truth excludes love? God is Love and he became flesh in the person Jesus Christ. And when love ran into the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Herodias and the Scribes, love argued with them! Incarnate love has to tell the truth. We are not supposed to go about looking for arguments,and we are to be gentile--our speech "should [be] alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man"-Col.4:6.

Scripture is against postmoderns who think we are not supposed to contend nor defend the faith that was once for all given to the saints"-

We live in an era where most Christians today have the attitude that it's not really right to "contend for the faith" against other Christians. So, if somebody professes to love Christ and professes to be a Christian the attitude today is we're not supposed to contend against that, nor question them. We're not supposed to argue against that. We're not supposed to fight and so we can disagree with one another and we can agree to disagree but we can never get serious about contending for the faith. That is the spirit of postmodernism. But I want you to know that Jude is (commanding us) to fight. And he said what's at stake is the faith once for all delivered to the saints

Paul throughout the New Testament spoke BOLDLY-Act 19:8 "Paul entered the synagogue and spoke boldly there for three months, (arguing) persuasively about the kingdom of God." He was sensitive to the Holy Spirit and feared God rather than men.

what saddens me the MOST is this red herring is used and we have to refute it instead of getting down to brass tacks. All I see are obfuscations and stonewalling because people don't want to do an honest serious search based on the word of GOD. They want to believe what they want to believe based upon their subjective feelings, experiences and opinions but not based on the Objective truth of God's word.

John piper has succum to nothing more than gnosticism and extra biblical revelation.

To say that God is most glorified when" is a phrase and a concept God has purposely chosen not to reveal to us in the pages of scripture. John Piper’s hedonism is not only unbiblical and illogical, it is speculative and therefore dangerous. Used as a creed it becomes a "precept of men" which God hates (Hosea 5:11, Isaiah 29:13, Jeremiah 8:6-9, Matthew 15:9, Mark 7:7, Colossians 2:22, Titus 1:14). When taught to our impressionable children and believers, as if it were somehow a quote from the Bible, we impose on our children and believer's the leaven of the Pharisees (Matthew 16:12) who Christ condemned because they taught "the precepts of men" as if they were also scripture (Matthew 15:9).

Anon, You ask us to show you how this is unbiblical, show us how it is scriptural. This quote is extra-biblical

Congratulations to all parties involved with causing confusion. As you are just as bad as what you are protesting. Calvinism, Armenian, bla bla. Jesus Christ died on the cross because we are sinners. Through his blood anyone who accepts Him shall be saved. I believe Christ's blood was good enough for everyone and we all have the opportunity to accept or reject Him. Yes, God knows who will accept the fact that He is calling them. Its all wording. Chosen, Elect, whatever. How about this: God knows who will personally choose to accept the fact that God has chosen them!? The matter with Louie Giglio: I see good fruit being accomplished. I have seen lives changed and the dead sinner buried and the new living christian life rise. I have seen lives touched by worship services led by Louie Giglio. Not emotions but true transformations that generate motivation for that person to go back to their communities and profess biblical truths and the Gospel. These people that have chosen to accept Christ as their Lord and Savior at these services led by Louie Giglio provide physical evidence in the power of Jesus Christ. You cannot deny someone that accepts Christ and shows complete transformation. The lives i have seen, have turned from their sinful habits, professed Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, studied the biblical truths, and shared God's word to others. So you can question Louie Giglio, but i will not entertain either thought as i know the Lord i serve can use any situation to gain His Glory. So if there is false teachings, which i doubt, then i know God can use any circumstance to receive Glory. Its comments that can be seen above that steal God's glory and cause confusion to the lives of those changed by the BLOOD OF JESUS CHRIST. People need to wake up and focus on Jesus and less about what they think/want. Whats important? Expanding Gods kingdom through His Son Jesus Christ, not who said one comment that meant this that was revealed to her from the reading of some false profit.... I think. Well there is only one thing that is for sure, Jesus Christ came to this earth as man and God to live a perfect life, teach, and be Crucified by people that assumed and pursued their own agenda with a close minded attitude so that a sinner, like me, can have an opportunity for eternal life through His salvation.

Anonymous,My heart is grieved for you and because you are duped by these men. The fact of the matter is this...Louie G, John Piper and the rest have been hob knobing with false teachers for some time now. If that does not concern you I do not know what would. BTW, lot of us speak from our own experience because we came out from under these people ourselves.

The scriptures are very clear on what true believer's are to do. Here are some scriptures that clearly tell us what to do.

(1) Do the scriptures encourage us to reprove and rebuke false teachers. Yes 2 Timothy 4:2-3 (2) Did Peter warn us that false teachers would arise? Yes 2 Peter 2:1 (3) Does the bible warn us that many will follow false teachers? Yes 2 Peter 2:2 (4) Does the bible warn us that false teachers will exploit people with stories they have made up? Yes 2 Peter 2:3 (5) Were false teachers present within the early church and are they present today? Yes Act 20:28-30 (6) Do false teachers interpertation come from man or God? Man 2 Perter 1:20-21 (7) Do false teachers bring swift distruction upon themselves? YES 2 Peter 2:1 (8) Are false teachers always readly apparent? No Matt. 7:15 (9) False teachers are preumptuous and self-willed. YES 2 Peter 2:10 (10) Do false teachers use flattering word that deceive simple heart? Yes Romans 16:18 (11) Do the scriptures warn us to stay away from false teachers? Yes Romans 16:17 (12) Will few people or many be deceived by false teachers. Many Matt. 24:11 (13) Do false teacher love money? Yes Titus 1:10-11 (14) False teachers believe that gain is godliness. Yes 1 Timothy 6:5 (15) Do false teachers profess to be believers? Yes Titus 1:16 (16) Can false teachers preform miracles? Yes Deut. 13:1-2 (17) Does the bible speak of a place for false teachers? Yes, Hell Revelations 21:8 (18) People will not want to hear false prophets. “False”Is. 30:9-10 (19) Those who study the word of God carefully should recognize the doctrine of false teachers. YES 2 Tim. 2:15 (20) Teachers who “fail” to teach Jesus’ death, burial and resurrection “according to the scriptures are false teachers. Yes Galations 1:9 (21) Does the bible command us to try and test the spirits to make sure they are of God. Yes 1 John 4:1 (22) Believing scriptures in you mind is the way to get saved. False Romans 10:10 (23) Speaking in tongues is a part of salvation. NO Romans 10:9-10 (24) True born again christian do not sin. False 1 John 1:10 (25) Doctrines that are man-made and not planted by the heavenly father will be rooted up. Yes Matt 15:13-15 (26) What will happens to those who add to or take away from the word of God. Revelations 22: 18-19

Huh? How does this prove that they are false teachers? I am not saying false teachers won't/don't exist. But what you just said proves nothing about Louie Giglio and John Piper and "the rest" being false teachers. My brain hurts...

Goodbye you all, best of luck. So far, I am glad I could post on here because it has helped me to reaffirm my beliefs and to better biblically found my beliefs. So, I thank you all for that. As far as what it means for me leaving this thread, it isn't because I am a coward and decided I couldn't handle myself or my arguments. I am leaving because these types of "arguments", though very interesting, truly go nowhere. It is all going to go around in a circle. So, have fun, praying for you all. God bless!

-Alex

Galatians 2:20-21"I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose."

I guess you will have to figure it out by the Word of God. if you can not figure it out, then you have no understanding of the warnings such as...many will come in my name, take heed, beware of false teachers, if they come preaching another gospel, flee from them, mark them, have no fellowship with them and so forth. Broad gate verses the narrow gate, many will enter the broad gate verses few will find the narrow which leads to life. LORD help you. Later. teresa

I do not see how that supports them being false teachers, as well. I also am not sure why the word hob knobbing is being used so much. haha. If this is a forum of "old-school" hob knobbers then i have fallen into the wrong place. As i blame YOU for the reason our country and upcoming generation (including economy) is in the shape its in. Once again i see no valid support for any arguments stating that passion, louie giglio, and parties involved are false. You can say i have been duped but thats just childish wording for "i have no proper way to defend this." Either you have been led astray by false teachers of your generation and are now in revolt, as a tool of the devil, to destroy the works of Jesus OR you are extremely jealous that there are successful ministries out there bearing fruit greater than you. I will pray for you and your search of God's will. This is not me saying you are not a Christian as i see you as a Brother/Sister (i would question tho if you are a woman why you are speaking out, as that is not your place, isnt that scriptural??) but you are highly confused, i encourage you to absorb the words of Christ and see how it is being reflected in your life. I think your eyes will be opened. This is not me defending anything, this is me stating that you are highly confused, the person that made this video is being deceived by the Devil, and more harm is being done on this website than good. This website brings no glory to God, just hate and anger. I turn to God in prayer and in His word, this is how i have personally absorbed the scripture, for you to say its wrong would just be putting your opinion over another. I would love to hear your theology, educational degree, and background so i can get a better understanding of where your coming from and if you hold credentials worthy of speaking out on this matter. Im just a Christian seeking God and trying to learn, not a prophet to argue false teachers. Didn't the pharisees say Jesus was a false teacher?????? HMmmm interesting. Those hob knobbers were duped by the devil.

No, no -- women aren't allowed to teach or have authority over a man in the Church; all believers are called to test teachings against the Scriptures to determine whether the teachings are true or false. -Brenda

Darrel, I NEVER said I didn't think this was a "valid Christian attitude": "If it were based upon the Scriptures you would find an ever growing humility toward the Lord, a deepening dependance upon Him alone, a gratitude for being set free from you sins, and an overwhelming fear of any sin entertained in you heart and mind." Not entirely sure where you got that from. Also, how can you assume, because I believe Louie Giglio and John Piper are speaking the truth right out of the Word of God, that I don't speak of the glories of God? God is amazing. I can't even fathom how He gave up His Son to die on the cross for the redemption of my sin, and everyone else's sins. As Paul says in 2 Corintians 5:12 Jesus became sin for us. I wholeheartedly put my trust, my faith in Him. God's glory and His renown is the desire of my soul. There is nothing more that I want than to be completely void of myself and lift up God and give Him all of the glory He deserves (which is an unfathomable amount).

Like I asked in my previous statement, show me how giving God the glory is unbiblical. You won't find it, in fact, here are a number of verses that say the opposite: 1 Corinthians 10:31, 1 Peter 4:11, Psalm 72:19, Romans 11:36, Galatians 1:5, John 5:44, Psalm 71:8, Psalm 113:4, Hebrews 3:3, Isaiah 24:15, Isaiah 42:12, Romans 16:27, Psalm 21:5, Psalm 57:5 and 11, Psalm 66:2, Philippians 4:20, Psalm 108:5, 1 Chronicles 16:10 and 24, Romans 15:7, Philippians 2:11, etc. I don't understand what you have against someone who decides to give up their self and let God have all of the glory! The first act of doing this is having to humble one's self and realize that you can't save yourself, that you have to put your faith in Christ and accept God's redeeming gift of grace. How is this unbiblical? This is the primary message of those speaking at Passion! It is ALL about Jesus Christ and HIS glory, not ours!

There is nothing more angering to me than people assuming they know my heart, know my standing with God, when they don't know who I am, my life's story, my testimony, and the desire of my heart. So, please, I beg you not to make any rash assumptions about anyone because they attended a conference. I am not saying that discernment is an unjustified thing. What I am saying is assumptions are. As brothers and sisters in Christ, I implore you not to judge the heart of anyone when all you have to go on is the fact that they went to a conference or said something. Look at the fruit of their spirit. Look at the fruit they have produced. Have they spread the Word of God? Have they given God glory? Have their lives been changed so much so that they hate their past and current sins? Have they grown a desire to grow closer to God through His Word and through prayer? Either way, you cannot judge the heart of another person. I won't, nor should I, judge any of you, even if we have differing opinions. Luke 6:37-42 specifically addresses this. Brothers and sisters, please, be careful.

As far as repentance goes, that was the KEY underlying theme of the entire conference. I don't understand how you think otherwise? I don't understand how you can make judgments on ALL of the speakers and ALL of the conference attendees that NONE of us have truly repented. Without the grace of God I would not be here. Without God's saving grace I would continue to live the wretched life I once lived. I hate my sin. I hate the sins I have committed, but realized by the blood of the Lamb I am saved, and in that I can rejoice! How can you assume otherwise? How can you assume anything about anyone? You are making terrible judgments upon people whose hearts you do not know. Lives have been completely changed because of people giving their lives over to Christ and realizing their wretchedness while at Passion. A major point and prayer at Passion is that the students there would continue to realize that their lives should no longer be about themselves, but should be for the glory of God the Father. Another thing that is talked about is how this is not possible and allowing ourselves to continue to sin, and purposefully sin. The realization of the wretchedness of our sin is a key, KEY component to what Passion is all about. How can you say that is unbiblical?

How is the idea of "desiring God" unbiblical? In fact, Psalm 145:16 says that God satisfies the desire of every living thing. It seems to me, that means our true heart's desire is for God. If our heart's desire is for God, shouldn't that mean that when that desire is met [by God] that our heart is satisfied in Him? Seems that way to me. Someone will have to define how our desires can be satisfied if not by God. And, when our desire is satisfied in God, our hearts belong to Him, and when our hearts belong to Him, we desire nothing more than to do His will, and when we desire nothing more than to do His will we desire to bring Him glory because God's desire is for His glory and His renown. Tell me how this is not biblical. I am not adding to the Bible, I am tying pieces together from Paul, David, and other writers of books of the Bible.

FYI, since there are 9000 (okay, slight overestimation) Anonymouses on this thread, just call me Alex.

Do you know anything about New Apostolic Reformation, what they teach or believe which is not biblical. If not, do yourself a favor and research. If you do and will not come out from among them, then there is no use talking to you because only the LORD can open your eyes to this deception. you will be held accountable for being wrong and staying, as we will if we are wrong. Louie G, John Piper know better than to hob knob with people like this or do they.

Apparently, they believe the same thing and that is why Louie can invite Jesus Culture to come entertain you guy's. And why John Piper can share the platform with deception and it not bother him.

I love the quote from Charles Spurgeon about discernment.

Discernment is not a matter of simply telling the difference between right and wrong; rather it is telling the difference between right and almost right.

Even Benny Hinn gets it right sometimes but he is still a wolf is wolf clothes.

Alex, pray for the LORD to open your heart to the truth of this matter. I will never address you again....Good luck to you. Teresa

Alex,How do I know what is in your heart? Two things: the words you type and the mirrow image of my unredeemed self from 40+ years ago. Bluntly, I was a cult member. Defence of my "preacher" was not optional, but a 'do or die' thing. My life was above anyone's scrutiny, my sins were not sins, but obedience to the cult's mantra [and because God had told me to do them]. My words were one step removed from being inspired, just as the Scriptures truly are. My mind was totally deceived into believing that I could do no wrong. And yet for all of this I had convinved myself that I was 'saved'. I would remind God from time to time that He was obligated to take me to heaven when I died, because I had walked an aisle, prayed a prayer and was sincere to boot. I was one of the many our Lord descibed in Matt. 7:21-23. I went to conferences, revivals, never missed a 'church service' and never understood why others didn't think as highly of me as I thought of myself. After a few years I left 'the church' but continued in my sins because I loved them.

The Lord Jesus didn't save me until I was 57, a forty year exhibition of His longsuffering, care, mercy and love. 1 Tim.1:16 is the only answer I know as to 'why'. Are you this bad? I hope not. The signs of cult membership (knowingly or unknowingly) are obvious to me as I read your words. Knowing the buzz words and catch phrases of Christianity does not make you a Christian. Claiming to do everything for the 'glory of God' does not grant you admission to His heaven. Defending the likes of Giglio, Piper, Moore, et al when there is ready and glaring evidence to their false doctrines/heresies is perhaps the greatest "tell".

Alex, I really, really want to be wrong about you. You owe no proof to me. But do yourself a favor, examine yourself to see whether you are in the faith 2 Cor.13:5. I truly hope to see you at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. May His grace abound in you life

Satan's presence is in this forum. I would recommend those that want to stay on the true biblical track and strive for their own personal relationship with Jesus Christ turn away now. Teresa i pray for you and your confused brain that is turning to a worldly sense rather than a Godly sense. You limit God and while you continue to make this about hate for people you clearly represent satan's goals. There is lack of faith in this forum and those protesting a ministry that has helped show the Love of Christ and in some cases led true salvation. The man that made this video is worldly. I laughed as i listened to his inaccuracies. Words like "ain't" make me question his intelligence and to lead such a revolt, he should probably be more equipped and not make ignorant mistakes, David Crowder. Taking things so literally has confused all of you, i pray you all turn to the scripture and work on your personal relationship with Jesus opposed to spending time making videos to represent Satan's Hate. I can only imagine the lives that have been led astray by all the false teachers protesting a ministry such as this. For those reading this that are being led into the confusing trenches of Satan:

Know Jesus Christ Loves you, he died for you and wants a personal relationship with you. This can only be done by accepting that you are a sinner and through Christs blood you can be saved. He was the perfect sacrifice and worldly men/women, such as these, crucified Him. Read your bible, turn to God (not a forum/blog/video), and live your life Loving Jesus and awaiting the reward of eternal life through Him.

James 1:2-18

2 Count it all joy, my brothers,[b] when you meet trials of various kinds, 3 for you know that the testing of your faith produces steadfastness. 4 And let steadfastness have its full effect, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking in nothing.

5 If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask God, who gives generously to all without reproach, and it will be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. 7 For that person must not suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; 8 he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

9 Let the lowly brother boast in his exaltation, 10 and the rich in his humiliation, because like a flower of the grass[c] he will pass away. 11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and withers the grass; its flower falls, and its beauty perishes. So also will the rich man fade away in the midst of his pursuits.

12 Blessed is the man who remains steadfast under trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life, which God has promised to those who love him. 13 Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. 14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. 15 Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

16 Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.[d] 18 Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of first fruits of his creatures.

For those causing confusion and doing more harm than good, you have been in my prayers as i do not think you are lost but purely being used as deception tool of the devil. With the power of Jesus Christ i command Satan to depart from these minds and stop their confusion, as they are entitled to their personal relationship they are leading the lost astray by provoking confusion. This has no longer been about warning but about opinion and HATE. I am second and i bow out of this discussion, as well, for the only thing that can help you now is Jesus Christ. You will stay in my prayers and tho i will never personally know any of you, i have love for you as Christ has love for you.

Confused brain...LOL I am not the one deceived by false teachers nor am the one confused as to what the true gospel is.

You said that satan presence is in this forum, then why are you here.

No one on this forum has attack you or your false teachers, like you have attack us. You spread more hate than anyone on this forum in the name of Jesus.

Do me a favor and do not pray for me...Pray for yourself because you need it. I shall not speak to you or comment to you again becasue you are a very nasty person which does not bring glory to God. Later

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