There are Absolutely No Tickets to be transferred to anybody at this time- the physical tickets won't be released until late June.

Buying a ticket on StubHub means you're giving money to someone for something that in the very best case (ie: they actually have it) you won't receive until sometime in August at best. In the worst case scenario they just send you a confirmation number & you have to hope that that the LLC doesn't cancel the ticket when they find out it's been sold at higher than face value (which they have the right to do until physical tickets are released).

Purchasing a ticket from anyone other than a close friend (if you didn't enter the lottery & therefor aren't able to enter STEP) is pretty much just a really stupid idea until the actual physical tickets are released in 6 months. That's the only way you know you're probably not going to get screwed (as long as it's not a counterfeit...)

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Eric wrote:There are Absolutely No Tickets to be transferred to anybody at this time- the physical tickets won't be released until late June.

Buying a ticket on StubHub means you're giving money to someone for something that in the very best case (ie: they actually have it) you won't receive until sometime in August at best. In the worst case scenario they just send you a confirmation number & you have to hope that that the LLC doesn't cancel the ticket when they find out it's been sold at higher than face value (which they have the right to do until physical tickets are released).

Purchasing a ticket from anyone other than a close friend (if you didn't enter the lottery & therefor aren't able to enter STEP) is pretty much just a really stupid idea until the actual physical tickets are released in 6 months. That's the only way you know you're probably not going to get screwed (as long as it's not a counterfeit...)

Yup. And the counterfeiters will be out there. And beware that you will get found out. You might not think its your fault if u end up with a counterfeit ticket - but if u get one of a scalper it is. And then you won't be going to BM.

I can see tickets on StubHub starting at the ridiculous price of $1000.... which of course I'm happy to pay. However I hope some one might be able to help me with some questions I have:

How does the transfer work? Is the ticket shipped to the origional purchaser and then they need to forward it to me? Does the ticket have a name on it?

What date is the ticket shipped? I'm located in Australia so it could be problematic sending it here at late notice, particularly if I'm already in the states!

And last of all.... Would anyone like to sell a ticket for a more reasonable price?

Stubhub is an excellent way to buy tickets on the secondary market. FAR safer than Craigslist, Ebay, etc. I use it a couple of times a year to buy seats I couldn't otherwise access at concerts.

What your hecklers here don't appear to understand is that you won't get ripped off of your money on Stubhub. It's an escrow system. You buy the ticket, and the money sits with Stubhub until they get the ticket from the seller and verify it as legit (no doubt an imperfect process, but I've never been burned a fake ticket via Stubhub). They then send the ticket onto you and release the money to the seller. Now, IF your ticket ends up being bullshit after all, Stubhub will refund your money. Of course, while you'll have your money back, you still won't have a ticket to Burning Man in that case, so there's still risk that a really good counterfeiter gets a ticket by Stubhub's verification procedure, and while you don't end up out any $$, you just flew yourself all the way from Australia only to be turned away at the gates. Maaayyybbeee you'd find someone sympathetic to your plight at that point, but probably not, and you'd be shit out of luck.

Realistically, Stubhub is really good at weeding out counterfeiters, and deals with events with higher demand than Burning Man all the time without being overwhelmed by counterfeiters. Further, unlike on Stubhub, sellers don't need to post pictures of the tickets, so there's no real risk that someone can point anyone in the BMORG to the posting and get the tickets cancelled. You'd almost certainly be safe buying a ticket from them in terms of not losing your money AND in terms of being assured that you will be on-playa come the end of August, but shit still happens and I'm sure counterfeiters do sometimes manage to pull one over on Stubhub.

And while you didn't ask for an opinion on the ethics of buying from scalpers, I'll say this to the rest of the posters on this thread: It's all well and good to pretend that Burning Man is a non-commercial event. It largely is.....but only once you get there. I don't know what entry lines the rest of you have been in in the past, but I pull up to entry and what I see are a bunch of people who are driving vehicles (cars, trucks, RVs, etc) made by some of the largest multinational corporations on earth, sold for profit. Whose vehicles are packed with things they purchased directly or indirectly from large corporations.

So sure, once you're in the gates, nobody wants to be a commercial victim anymore. But when you're outside the gates, you're in the real world, and in the real world, supply and demand drive prices. BMORG chose not to make tickets non-transferable, and scalping is a completely predictable result. It's well and good to say "If nobody buys tickets from scalpers, they'll stop doing it" but that's incredibly naive insofar as it depends on a very high % of people who might otherwise buy scalped tickets all deciding not to. Since that won't happen, all you're doing by not obtaining tickets from Stubhub is saving yourself the $$ and not getting to go to Burning Man. The contribution that you buying scalped tickets makes to the price of the overall secondary market is negligible.

Anyway, that's my perspective. My fiance and I don't have tickets and while I don't fundamentally object to scalpers, I'm not sure we could stomach paying $1000/ticket.

Edit: Also be aware that there's nothing stopping someone from posting a fake ticket to gauge market demand or just for giggles. They'll be banned from the system after they're discovered, and you won't lose your money, but you'll have to buy another scalped ticket if you still want to go. Prices might be higher, prices might be lower at that time. Who knows!

Last edited by DrYes on Fri Feb 17, 2012 8:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Def: gullible= people who buy from scalpers and expect everything to be ok.

I've bought tickets for other events on Stubhub at least a dozen times without any problems at all. I wouldn't even consider doing so on Craigslist or Ebay though. They are peer-to-peer where you're much more likely to be ripped off than on a mediated escrow system like Stubhub.

DrYes wrote:I don't know what entry lines the rest of you have been in in the past, but I pull up to entry and what I see are a bunch of people who are driving vehicles (cars, trucks, RVs, etc) made by some of the largest multinational corporations on earth, sold for profit.

I do my best, but last year 16 of my mules got thrush and I had to use the motor...(In other words, I consider the ticket to be of the burn, and therefore dislike scalping. That other stuff, we use it every day and would buy most of it anyway. And it's the economic reality most of us live in. Maybe I don't leave the burn as far behind the other 51 weeks as some others do. And yes, others still live it year round more effectively...)

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Eric wrote:Buying a ticket on StubHub means you're giving money to someone for something that in the very best case (ie: they actually have it) you won't receive until sometime in August at best.

EXACTLY!!! And that's IF you're in the United States.

In the meantime--unlike other StubHub purchases being shilled here--if the BORG finds out about that ticket or the scalper gets caught selling others during all the months in between, the original sale is likely to be canceled, you're out of your money, there will be no ticket, and StubHub's own TOS says "ALL SALES ARE FINAL!"

If that happens to somebody reading this forum--and it will likely happen to at least one of you--the word for it is KARMA!!!

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

DrYes wrote:I don't know what entry lines the rest of you have been in in the past, but I pull up to entry and what I see are a bunch of people who are driving vehicles (cars, trucks, RVs, etc) made by some of the largest multinational corporations on earth, sold for profit.

Right. You can see Black Rock City's reliance on plastic and petroleum from space, and that doesn't take into consideration Duracell and Energizer powering all that el-wire and blinky lights. Also, shit stinks.

What's your point?

If you buy tickets on StubHub, nobody's going to feel sorry for the screwing you're likely to get, and if you tell other burners that you got tickets from StubHub, they're not going to respect you. Also, you're hurting the city and damaging the event. The choice to be a selfish dick, just like in the real world, is entirely yours.

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

Allow me to give a slightly different perspective to people saying "Face Value or Fuck Off" ...I agree with that sentiment, don't get me wrong.. But me being from Australia myself, and coming to Buring Man this year, it's a hell of an overhead to book flights and organise transport and gear and everything.For someone that doesn't have tickets right now, even if they *do* have hope in the STEP system... they may not get tickets allocated through that until it's too late to actually *do* the booking of flights and whatnot.

It's kind of a buy now, or not at all thing.

Please understand this mindset for international burners.

I'm not excusing it, i'm just giving reasons. Some degree of certainty for international people, that the $10k or so they are about to spend won't go to waste (much of which wont be refundable if they can't go, depending on the types of tickets, deposits etc.).

I understand that a lot of locally based people also spend thousands on gear and theme camps and everything as well, and they are just as up in the air as international burners and everyone else. I'm not saying international people are a special case - Just trying to get you to see their perspective. I'd also be willing to bet that some regular locally based burners will buy scalped tickets, and just not make it publically known that they did so.

This guy was just asking a question - You don't have to hate him for it. There are nicer ways to say:

"Hey - It's kind of against burner culture to commodify the tickets and buy from scalpers. Please read up about the principles and i'm sure you'll understand"

Astrochuppa wrote:Allow me to give a slightly different perspective to people saying "Face Value or Fuck Off" ...I agree with that sentiment, don't get me wrong.. But me being from Australia myself, and coming to Buring Man this year, it's a hell of an overhead to book flights and organise transport and gear and everything.For someone that doesn't have tickets right now, even if they *do* have hope in the STEP system... they may not get tickets allocated through that until it's too late to actually *do* the booking of flights and whatnot.

It's kind of a buy now, or not at all thing.

Please understand this mindset for international burners.

I'm not excusing it, i'm just giving reasons. Some degree of certainty for international people, that the $10k or so they are about to spend won't go to waste (much of which wont be refundable if they can't go, depending on the types of tickets, deposits etc.).

I understand that a lot of locally based people also spend thousands on gear and theme camps and everything as well, and they are just as up in the air as international burners and everyone else. I'm not saying international people are a special case - Just trying to get you to see their perspective. I'd also be willing to bet that some regular locally based burners will buy scalped tickets, and just not make it publically known that they did so.

This guy was just asking a question - You don't have to hate him for it. There are nicer ways to say:

"Hey - It's kind of against burner culture to commodify the tickets and buy from scalpers. Please read up about the principles and i'm sure you'll understand"

Well' I suggest you jump right in and buy a ticket from STub HUb.. The after you fly in and get to the Burning Man gate "Without a in sight.. Please come back to this thread and whine about it..

Now one more time.. There are no tickets for sale at this time.. There will be no tickets in hand until AFTER mid June.. The most you can buy from the likes of Stub Hub is a bunch of hot air.. After reading your post.. I find that my grandmother was ritgh.. There is a fool born every second, and two con men to catch him..

Astrochuppa wrote:This guy was just asking a question - You don't have to hate him for it. There are nicer ways to say:

"Hey - It's kind of against burner culture to commodify the tickets and buy from scalpers. Please read up about the principles and i'm sure you'll understand"

The responses to the OP didn't have any hate in them- they were plainly pointing out that buying from any source other than a close friend before the physical tickets are released in late June is a crap shoot. The Org retains the right to cancel tickets sold for over face value up until the tickets are released and they already have done so. While we understand that International Burners have a lot more logistics to plan for, purchasing a ticket that has a very good chance to be fake may not be the best plan.

Also, if you look at the "ship dates" on the majority of StubHub auctions you'll notice they tend to be mid-late August (some as late as the Friday before Gate opens). I would bet that a chunk of those auctions don't even have tickets to sell, they're waiting to get them in the after-market.

Again, for emphasis: There Are Absolutely NO Tickets to be had until June. Period.

It's a camping trip in the desert, not the redemption of the fallen world - Cryptofishist

Flynn, I don't think you're risking losing your money if you order a 2012 Burning Man ticket on StubHub because StubHub is an escrow account where money doesn't change hands until tickets are actually available, so that aspect of the "One is born every minute" hate doesn't wash. The $1,050 lowest price on StubHub might seem like a rip-off now, but it might seem like a bargain later if tickets do not end up in STEP. The biggest risk I can see is you tying up your money on the ticket and it not being there for you somehow when the tickets are issued which is a bummer in its own right due to the reservations of flight, etc.

The camp with a differenceNever mind the weatherWhen you camp with Plug & PlyYour holiday's forever

Very simply put, I could start my own scalper outlet---ShamHub, and sell tickets now for $5000 each. Since they're not out, I have to go and find them if someone is stupid enough to give me their credit card number. I promise that if I can't find them, I will refund you your money. This is simply what the scalpers are dealing with now--a promise to find you something or your inflated ticket price back.

ShamHub---what a perfect name for some of these scalpers out there. I should trademark the name in the morning!

]My mind set is: If I do not have a ticket by the end of March I don't go this year..I will look for some one to take one of my projects to BM. Then plan a nice week long camp in a desert or with other Burners that do not have ticket.. Then my mind set will be, 2013 was better..

If you have the money bags to do $15oo.oo add camp and travel.. Good on ya.Do not expect to fly in and rent a RV. from SF or La or anywhere in Nv. They are all rented by now..

I think the post on how StubHub proceeds bears repeating. You could 'buy' a $1000 ticket on StubHub, make ALL you flight plans and rentals, then tickets get released in late June/early July and StubHub cannot procure you a real ticket. They say 'Sorry' and will happily refund you $1k. So it is August and you don't have a ticket. Well, a visit to San Francisco or Las Vegas is nice but you invested a lot of money to get to BRC and in mid-August you find that isn't happening.

OR, you plan for 2013 and go to the Australian burn this year.

It is a crap shoot to plan on StubHub coming through. If you like to gamble and have to money, go for it. If the ticket doesn't happen, Las Vegas and Reno have more places that you can gamble during your visit. Personally, I would not want to go our on that limb. If you do make it to BRC, have a blast!

Galaxo Magic wrote:I think the post on how StubHub proceeds bears repeating. You could 'buy' a $1000 ticket on StubHub, make ALL your flight plans and rentals, then tickets get released in late June/early July and StubHub cannot procure you a real ticket. They say 'Sorry' and will happily refund you $1k.

This is the (Galaxo) Magic phrase of the day. They will promise, have you pay, and just say "sorry", if they are unsuccessful. They WILL refund your money, but in the meanwhile, you planned on that ticket.Don't buy from scalpers or above face value!

I'd be willing to bet the odds on getting a ticket from a StubHub listing are at least as good if not better than the odds of getting a ticket through STEP. People are gonna buy from scalpers, that's just a fact, and at this point, I hold no ill will towards those that do, especially people from overseas. People wanna go to Burning Man, some very badly. Next year, I hope the BMORG figures out a better way to fight scalpers, but this year, they're out there and every single one that actually does have a ticket for sale will make money. Every single one.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but why not just go on stubhub, make a fake account and post a bunch of ticktes available for 300-400$. I would feel bad for anyone that purchases these, but it would saturate the market enough to scare scalpers.. and that would be just dandy!

There were attempts to set up fake accounts to buy tickets on ebay last year. Turns out that that's fraud. I don't know that selling fake tickets is also fraud, but I think it's important to be aware that swimming in these waters is not the same as skipping stones across the lake...

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri