Wagner Lipnharski wrote:
> See, I am not complaining, but when something
> goes for a GUI interface, it seems that "schnapps"
> should be said as "Alcoholic Beverage Produced
> in Ukraine", or something like that, not a bare
> difficult word.
>

Guys, sorry for deep [OT]:

Does anybody know good wine produced in USA?
We have here a lot of Europe bottles and no any
produced in USA. Hmm, mountains of USA chicken
legs, meat, Pepsi, Coca and no wine.
Henry Ford's conveyer system can't produce
good wine?
Or "civilized" part of World chose Pepsi, instead
of grape products? :-)

> ...If the Guru should be brought from Arizona or
> North Dakota, that's ok, but not from Siberia,
> Balkans, please.

Why, most of them reside now in North America.
Personally I know a bunch of them.

You will find that the UK is actually one of the main centres for
wine trading. Try going to Bordeaux and ask for a bottle of Burgundy
or a wine from the Rhone - if they manage to conjure one up it will
have been imported (on paper) via the UK.

A number of Napa Valley wineries are now owned or part owned by
people like Moet and some of the other houses.

Zinfandel although the main stay (Rupestrus Rix stock unlike Vitus
Vinifera European stock) can be pretty awful. There are though some
very nice Zinfandels especially the Roses'.

Now Russell, I can remember when the only wine imported from the
Antipodes was Kanga Rouge/Wallaby White from Australia and Cooks NZ
White from the Tekuwhata Wine Company closely followed by Montana. (I
realise I may have misspelt Tekuwhata).

> Now Russell, I can remember when the only wine imported from the
> Antipodes was Kanga Rouge/Wallaby White from Australia and Cooks NZ
> White from the Tekuwhata Wine Company closely followed by Montana. (I
> realise I may have misspelt Tekuwhata).

What about Chateau Chunder?

We've come a long way since the old Monty Python "poo poo-ing
Australian Table Wines" :-)

We've got the French suing us now, so we must be doing *something*
right! :-)

Thank you. I'll try it. Perhaps they are too expensive
to be widely exported to Ukraine.

Mike.

Dale Botkin wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Mike Singer wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know good wine produced in USA?
>
> Lots of California wines are excellent. What are you
> looking for? A quick browse of any of thousands of
> Web or magazine reviews should point you in the
> right direction.

Mike Singer wrote:
> Guys, sorry for deep [OT]:
>
> Does anybody know good wine produced in USA?
> We have here a lot of Europe bottles and no any
> produced in USA. Hmm, mountains of USA chicken
> legs, meat, Pepsi, Coca and no wine.
> Henry Ford's conveyer system can't produce good wine?
> Or "civilized" part of World chose Pepsi, instead
> of grape products? :-)

Good wine? There are many good wines in the USA IMHO, but wine is a
terribly subjective commodity. I took a class in wine tasting and the
final recommendation was to simply try it yourself instead of relying
upon commercial rating systems. Different people like different flavor
and aroma components in wines. Myself, I prefer heavier red wines with
plenty of lactic acid and a hint of tannin (without going into too much
detail). I don't have a huge experience with wines because I'm not rich
enough to afford the best, nor am I a heavy enough drinker to have
ploughed through that many vintages. Given that long but still
insufficient disclaimer, here are some recommendations for wines that I
happen to enjoy.

I live in the state of Oregon where the Pinot Noir reigns supreme. We
produce wines comparable to French Pinot's according to many reviews.
These local pinot noir vintages are about $10-$20 per bottle and are
quite tasty. For some specific picks, I really like Domaine Drouhin for
their Zinfandel, Chateau Benoit for their Pinot Noir, and Serendipity
for just about everything they produce (although their Zinfandel is my
favorite, which is sad since they just retired last year). These wines
are more difficult to procure though, since they are limited production.
For larger production and less quality/expense, consider Knudsen Erath
and Eola Hills for their Pinot Noirs. Both Knudsen and Eola produce
consistent and decent wine.

For some of the best Zinfandel vintages, I would go with Sonoma county
(California) wineries. The second best bottle of wine I ever tasted was
from Silver Oaks. Limited production of course, and it was $75, but I
was young, single and lacked the sense to save it for something that
would last for longer than two hours. :-)

Australia has made some terrific wines, as has Venezuala (or was it
Peru?) and I believe that upstate New York has some decent wines as
well. I can't speak from personal experience to any of those areas,
however.

In summary, good wines are in many places. Just sample to find
something you like!

Chile I do believe is the country your thinking of. The reds good the
whites not so good.

Concha y Toro is the one most likely to be seen ambling about the
shelves.

While we are on this note try Chateau Musar from Lebanon - never
missed a vintage throughout the fighting, all though it was sometimes
in short supply. The red is similar to a Rhone or Rioja depending on
the oaking of the vinatge. The white is good when the weather has
been mild during the growing season.

CH Musar is owned by a French Lebanese family and the vineyard has
been in 3 generations.

> While we are on this note try Chateau Musar from Lebanon - never
> missed a vintage throughout the fighting, all though it was sometimes
> in short supply. The red is similar to a Rhone or Rioja depending on
> the oaking of the vinatge. The white is good when the weather has
> been mild during the growing season.

Whaaat? Is this the PIC wine list or something?
What's next, huge threads about the best restaurants
or the latest clothing fashions? Isn't the internet
totally full of this commercial stuff already? :o(

Most wine people can't tell a $5 wine from a $40
wine if you swap the label. I used to have a working
association with a winery and the stories they used
to tell were amusing, buying surplus wines, mixing,
adding flavours and chemicals. Some of their award
winning wines were the cheap mixed crap and sometimes
their good wines bombed. The labels have more effect
on the ratings than the contents. Only one wine
drinker in 100 can taste the difference, but the
99% are where the sales come from.
-Roman

Roman Black wrote:
> Whaaat? Is this the PIC wine list or something?
> What's next, huge threads about the best restaurants
> or the latest clothing fashions? Isn't the internet
> totally full of this commercial stuff already? :o(

I didn't mean to digress too far from the PIClist theme.
My apologies. I just thought if people can discuss
politics, religion and aliens... wine wouldn't be all
that bad (as long as the thread didn't drag on too much).

> Most wine people can't tell a $5 wine from a $40
> wine if you swap the label. I used to have a working
> association with a winery and the stories they used
> to tell were amusing, buying surplus wines, mixing,
> adding flavours and chemicals. Some of their award
> winning wines were the cheap mixed crap and sometimes
> their good wines bombed. The labels have more effect
> on the ratings than the contents. Only one wine
> drinker in 100 can taste the difference, but the
> 99% are where the sales come from.

It is very true. That is why I developed a personal
sense of what I liked rather than buying the most
expensive and well rated bottle of rotten grape juice
on the store shelf. At this point, I drink NO wine at
all just because I view it as a waste of money and
time (bad ratio of expense to value). No need to damage
the precious few brain cells that I do have.

Thanks for your opinion on wines, even though you don't think such
opinions should be on the PIC list in the first place! C'mon Roman!
'Tis the season to be merry! :-)

I agree with what you say. I don't consider myself much of an expert
either, but every now and then will spend slightly more than the usual
and go for what seems to be a nice wine. Recently I have bought a few
$20 Verhdellos (sp?) from the Hunter Region - of all places and they
have been superb. I can definitely taste the the difference to a $9 or
$10 Verhdello.

Also, I have purchased a couple of Penfold's (or Penfolds' ?) Cabernet
Shiraz Bin 389 recently and I can tell you that is worth every cent of
$40. Sometimes you can find it for $34 - and if you like a nice Red, I
suggest you have a splurge and try it. Let he breathe first.

Also, Brian's point about it being a very subjective thing is all too
true.

> on the store shelf. At this point, I drink NO wine at
> all just because I view it as a waste of money and
> time (bad ratio of expense to value). No need to
> damage the precious few brain cells that I do have

I'm not a drinker in the social sense but I have been taking
notice of the reports on the health benefits of red wine and
low-moderate alcohol intake, which is (hopefully) many
glasses away from the real abuse that stoicTTs and wowsers
lump in with "any" imbibing. I remember once being given
a very frosty (and probably personally meaningful) dissertation
on "drunks" by a woman who at the time was cooking rhubarb
and apple in an old aluminium pot. It had crossed my mind to
tell her about acid-dissolved aluminium and Alzheimer's but
she just went on and on and on .........

> on "drunks" by a woman who at the time was cooking rhubarb
> and apple in an old aluminium pot. It had crossed my mind to
> tell her about acid-dissolved aluminium and Alzheimer's but
> she just went on and on and on .........

Aluminium pots will do that to you! :-) Now illegal in the EU, I have
heard. That is - if my memory serves me correctly! I stopped my family
using aluminium pots over 20 years ago, but maybe too late! :-)

<excerpt><fixed>on "drunks" by a woman who at the time was cooking
rhubarb

and apple in an old aluminium pot. It had crossed my mind to

tell her about acid-dissolved aluminium and Alzheimer's but

she just went on and on and on .........

</fixed></excerpt>

Aluminium pots will do that to you! :-) Now illegal in the EU, I have
heard. That is - if my memory serves me correctly! I stopped my family
using aluminium pots over 20 years ago, but maybe too late! :-)

Roman Black wrote:
>
> Whaaat? Is this the PIC wine list or something?
> What's next, huge threads about the best restaurants
> or the latest clothing fashions? Isn't the internet
> totally full of this commercial stuff already? :o(
>
The point is that it isn't "commercial stuff". It's
opinions of folks who similar to me are EE oriented.
I do understand them. I do not understand sometimes
those guys who are "arts" oriented, or politics, or
religions...
Yes I'm slightly egoistic since wine is "something
special" to me, apparently not to you, and probably
not to most on the List. But, I hope, Dale will not kick
me off the List, as good wine in reasonable quantities
helps folks better understand each other, unlike politics
or religions do.

Funny picture. :o) I should mention that XXXX beer is
almost unheard of in NSW, it's a QLD state beer.

PS. I'm not an Australian although i have been known to
live here and accept the tag occasionally. :o)

PPS. I do enjoy a nice wine but in my years of working
in hi-rise office building and wearing a tie I got really
sick of sad-case wanna-be business people pretending
they know a good wine the same way sad-case teenagers
pretend they know good music. People wearing $8 polyester
ties sniffing the wine at business luncheons and then
commenting on the vintage is a comedic event that must
be witnessed to be truly appreciated.

PPPS. Isn't the piclist OT topic supposed to be at least
*related* to computing or science in general? Can we
discuss our favorite boy-bands next and argue over which
member is the most cute??
-Roman

> PPPS. Isn't the piclist OT topic supposed to be at least
> *related* to computing or science in general? Can we
> discuss our favorite boy-bands next and argue over which
> member is the most cute??
> -Roman

I hope not. Although I no interest in this thread, I find it easy to ignore.
It looks like there is little crossover to the Linux thread which I find
very interesting. The [OT] area is simply a part of my "social life" and I
look forward to it every day. Its like going to a party and ferreting out
the interesting conversations and slipping away from the less interesting
ones.

As far as alcohol goes a lifetime of research has led me to Bud light for
drinking (does it really have alcohol in it?), methyl alcohol for model
airplane fuel and Isopropyl a solvent.

Yes, but with certain political flavour: the most efficient
instruments during Soviet times to solve political problems
were alcoholic drinks. And looking at the White House
Chief's face I'm starting to suspect he is a skilful master
of the instrument also.

Roman Black wrote:
...
> PPS. I do enjoy a nice wine but in my years of working
> in hi-rise office building and wearing a tie I got really
> sick of sad-case wanna-be business people pretending
> they know a good wine the same way sad-case teenagers
> pretend they know good music...
...
> Can we discuss our favorite boy-bands next and argue
> over which member is the most cute??
...

> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Mike Singer wrote:
>
> > Does anybody know good wine produced in USA?
>
> Lots of California wines are excellent. What are you looking for? A
> quick browse of any of thousands of Web or magazine reviews should point
> you in the right direction.
>
> Dale
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics
> (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics

> I'm not a drinker in the social sense but I have been taking
> notice of the reports on the health benefits of red wine and
> low-moderate alcohol intake, which is (hopefully) many

Ah but did you see the article in Nature recently regarding alcohol
consumption and the possible link with breast cancer. A similar article was
published in the Journal of the American Medical Association in 1999.
Possible theories involve decreased oestrogen degradation in the liver due
to alcohol related damage or mutations in alcohol dehydrogenase bringing
about the neoplastic change in the breast tissue.....
One day it's good for you, the next it ain't.........
C'est la vie...

Ben
ps And with all those oestrogens in the water you've got to be careful ;)