The author of the article doesn't seem very impressed at this point with what Bioware has put forth. Having not seen what he has seen I can't really make an informed judgment but Bioware does seem to be scant on the details although we may see much more at the coming E3.

As far as Hoth is concerned I don't have a huge problem with it. It would be logical to assume that Hoth was known prior to the Rebel Alliance using it as a base just like Anchorhead on Tatooine had been settled abandoned and resettled several times. (KOTOR 1). Not only that but Hoth is one of those iconic SW locations that if I were Bioware I'd say "we've got to stick this in somewhere."

"You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

I actually fell asleep when I read the update, hit my face on the floor and chipped a tooth... and it didn't hurt as much as this update lol, what an unimaginative excuse for a planet.

Serves a great purpose as an unassuming barren waste land to hide a rebel base, they then leave and get onto the main story, the End. What is the point of this Planet other than to grab the attention of anyone who's ever seen ESB

I don't get your point dude, I'm just saying lol, It's bad enough that I dislike some of what Bioware are doing, never mind being repeatedly punched in the side of the head by people defending they're honor lol. I don't think its a good Idea, thats my Opinion, I'm sorry if my first thought isn't "Oh well they are trying " this is a forum to Discuss what we think of the upcoming MMO from Bioware/Lucasarts... That was my Opinion.

Does there need to be another reason? yes lol, being interesting to play for one, original maybe, something.

That's fine - not trying to defend anyone's honor. I guess I just don't expect every detail of TOR to be totally groundbreaking. There is going to be some stuff that's just there to be there, and Hoth seems like it falls in that category. It appeals to OT fans. I'm ok with that.

And I fully accept that and actually respect your Opinion. I just want the best for an Old Republic era game, its the last Credible era in my opinion now, I don't want it to go down the pan and be just another cash cow generic franchise. and with regards to OT fans, I'm 110% an original OT fan, but I would prefer new ideas and locales.

Perhaps, but we already have Jedi ruins on Tython, Coruscant, and Dantooine. Jedi ruins are cool with me, but I don't necessarily need more.

My only problem with Hoth is that I thought it got it's name from Jedi Master Hoth from the Bane era, but this would certainly indicate it was called Hoth long before Jedi Hoth existed. Maybe he was named after the planet, not vice versa.

IMO the only reason to include Hoth would be to give a nod to ESB, and I don't think Rhen Var would have accomplished that. Some people have an issue with that being the purpose of the planet, which I understand - just disagree with.

I don't mind seeing planets that played a big part in the movies, as long as they make sense. Planets like Coruscant and Alderaan have remained important for millennia for various reasons, even Tatooine I can understand. But Hoth seems like the planet in the unknown regions of the galaxy that no one knew or cared about until the Rebels found it and planted a base there.

When I look at how it's involved in this from the description, it doesn't make much sense. A planet unworthy of protecting, it just happens to be the place where Republic and Sith fleets accidentally meet. And it's importance during TOR is, in my opinion, dubious. This scrapyard can't be as important as most planets closer to the core and which has people on them.

Not only does it shatter the lore and the enigma that is Hoth, but it does so by putting filler in the planet (this is based off the screenshots) and borrowing unoriginal ideas from already created MMOs (the similarity between the Hoth screenshots and parts of WoW).

What enigma did Hoth ever have? It was never mysterious, it never had any mysteries. It was an icy hellhole with wampas and tauntauns and lots of snow. There was no enigma to shatter. At least now that it's had a huge battle in orbit in the past, that gives a bit of mystery to the world.

And really? You think WoW created snowy zones in MMOs? FFXI has snowy zones that look similar too, and I'm sure EverQuest did too. I know it's hard to take, but WoW was never the first to do ANYTHING. All WoW did was put together the best pre-existing features of MMOs that were on the scene before WoW came out.

*edit* I'll admit that I noticed the icy canyons reminded me of WoW's, but WoW was hardly the first to create such things, so I don't mind at all. There's only a set amount of climates out there that can be done, and eventually you're going to have some similar climates in multiple games. PLUS Hoth came out 30 years ago in ESB, WoW came out 5 years ago. I'd say TOR's Hoth has 25 years of originality ahead of WoW so we should say WoW's zones ripped off ESB's Hoth, not the other way around.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

Ugh.. I don't like Hoth. Never seemed much like a good idea. The only things that were good about Hoth were seen in ESB. It's good for a big massive battle with AT-AT's and snow speders, but without the whole empire thing, it just rings hollow. It was supposed to be an insignificant ice ball that had nothing of note. That's why smugglers and the republic used it. It had nothing. So it would be ignored.

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." Thomas Jefferson

Now Hoth is still an insignificant snowball, except now its only other claim to fame is being the site of a space battle thousands of years ago. Would you say a place has something of note if it had a battle in 1500 BC? How many places on Earth do we remember for having battles 3500 years ago? Having a space battle this far back doesn't mean Hoth is suddenly a busy place. It's less busy than Tatooine, which is supposed to be a nothing world but had major events occur there seemingly every few years.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

What enigma did Hoth ever have? It was never mysterious, it never had any mysteries. It was an icy hellhole with wampas and tauntauns and lots of snow. There was no enigma to shatter. At least now that it's had a huge battle in orbit in the past, that gives a bit of mystery to the world.

I disagree. To me, as a child, I always thought of Hoth to be this remote planet where its mystique was in the fact that you don't know what lives on it and where they live. Obviously the EU has ruined that slightly, but still Hoth has remained to be a slightly mysterious planet (not as much as Dagobah however).

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And really? You think WoW created snowy zones in MMOs? FFXI has snowy zones that look similar too, and I'm sure EverQuest did too. I know it's hard to take, but WoW was never the first to do ANYTHING. All WoW did was put together the best pre-existing features of MMOs that were on the scene before WoW came out.

*edit* I'll admit that I noticed the icy canyons reminded me of WoW's, but WoW was hardly the first to create such things, so I don't mind at all. There's only a set amount of climates out there that can be done, and eventually you're going to have some similar climates in multiple games. PLUS Hoth came out 30 years ago in ESB, WoW came out 5 years ago. I'd say TOR's Hoth has 25 years of originality ahead of WoW so we should say WoW's zones ripped off ESB's Hoth, not the other way around.

Woa woa, I'm not saying that the that it's a snow zone and because of that it's a rip off of WoW. It has nothing to do with the zone or general idea, it has to do with the fact that the graphics (at least mostly in the screenshots I've seen so far) are very WoW-like.

It's nothing to do with the climate, it's just the fact that the graphics (again, on Hoth) and some of the areas (IE: Ice Caves) remind me very much so of WoW and/or Warhammer.

And don't think I'm a guy that thinks WoW started everything because I know that. I hate WoW, and I've been playing MMOs since before WoW started.

I was a bit harsh in my quick reaction, sorry. You did say Hoth was an unoriginal idea though, and ideas have nothing to do with the graphics.

I wouldn't say the EU has ruined Hoth. My "The Wildlife of Star Wars: A Field Guide" still only lists 2 species on Hoth: Wampa and Tauntaun(tauntaun has 3 sub-species, but nothing major). Like I basically said to Tommycat, 3500 years is a long time. It could add to the planet's mystery by its only notable event in the past being a big space battle many millenia ago. I was all anti-Hoth when I first heard about it, but I've warmed up to it now.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

Well I don't think the Empire and Republic are going to stay and make Hoth their home. They're only there long enough to recover their wrecked ships, then they'll leave. It actually fits nicely with Hoth looking untouched in ESB. We have 3500 years for people to salvage their ships and the snow to cover up what little is left behind, and leave it looking like no one was there.

Though minor EU note, the Rebel Base on Hoth was built inside the tunnels that a Mon Calamari smuggler named Salmakk had already made his own. Salmakk created his own little base to hide away in, and the Rebels chased out the last stragglers of Salmakk's group when they moved in. They even built the Ion Cannon on a flattened spot Salmakk had left. Apparently more than just the Rebels have noted its remoteness.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

I was a bit harsh in my quick reaction, sorry. You did say Hoth was an unoriginal idea though, and ideas have nothing to do with the graphics.

I was saying that the ideas that are creating SWTORs Hoth are unoriginal. I never said Hoth itself was original... however the way they are conveying Hoth (graphically) is in my eyes, unoriginal.

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Originally Posted by RogueJedi

I wouldn't say the EU has ruined Hoth. My "The Wildlife of Star Wars: A Field Guide" still only lists 2 species on Hoth: Wampa and Tauntaun(tauntaun has 3 sub-species, but nothing major). Like I basically said to Tommycat, 3500 years is a long time. It could add to the planet's mystery by its only notable event in the past being a big space battle many millenia ago. I was all anti-Hoth when I first heard about it, but I've warmed up to it now.

Again, I never said the EU ruined Hoth, I was saying that it ruined the mystique.I believed there was more on the planet and the EU ruined that. :P

How could they have shown Hoth in an original way? :P There's only so many ways to show a barren snowscape. Even in the movies it was just snowdrifts. The Hoth of TOR is showing icy canyons and stuff we didn't see in ESB. :P

I'll easily admit that at the least they timed the announcement of Hoth with the 30th anniversary of ESB. If this had been 2013, we'd be seeing an announcement of Endor instead. TOR is easily the biggest hypetrain LucasArts has right now(alongside TFU2), so of course they had Hoth announced now.

I do look forward to fighting the Empire and pirates for the ships ruins. I really hope we can make/upgrade our own ships with the salvaged parts though.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

How could they have shown Hoth in an original way? :P There's only so many ways to show a barren snowscape. Even in the movies it was just snowdrifts. The Hoth of TOR is showing icy canyons and stuff we didn't see in ESB. :P

Well people expect a Snow World, just like they expect a Desert World, a Forest World, a Water World, a City World, etc. I thought Belsavis was a nice twist on it, but apparently we'll be playing in the green areas there. You know you wanna ride a tauntaun.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

In all honesty there's only so many different types of landscapes you can have.

As I said before Hoth is an iconic SW location right along with Coruscant, Alderaan, and Tatooine. That, more than anything else, I'm sure is the reason it was included. Along the same line Taris is an iconic KOTOR/Old Republic location which I'm sure is why it was included.

I don't have a problem with it as I previously stated. Iconic locations are a part of any MMO that stems from a long running franchise. WoW has an unfounded number of them, SWG has them etc...etc...

"You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view."

I'm with everyone else. WTF? How does this even tie in to the current backstory for Hoth? IIRC IU the planet was named after the character, who isn't even born until much later. Also, like others have said, there's nothing there, which is key to it's role in ESB.

Even Dagobah would have made more sense if they wanted to use a backwater planet from ESB

And there will be nothing there again after the Empire and Republic and privateers clean up their ship wreckage, which should take a decade tops. That still leaves 3490 years for nothing to keep being there until ESB happens. A lot can happen in 3500 years. Can you think of anything that's still standing on earth in Antarctica from 3500 years ago? Doubt it.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!

Hoth in and of itself isn't necessarily too bad but it looks like the creativity team has little in the way of original new ideas. It's a grab towards familiarity of ESB with longtime fans... and that ultimately may end up cheapening it and killing originality if they can't make headway on it. Hoth is what it always was and will always be: a miserable cold place in the snow that "doesn't have enough life to fill an ice cube".

Another thing: *Are* they going to actually call it Hoth? I thought this planet was going to be named after the Jedi Lord Hoth--which has yet to happen for another 2700 years by the continuity of the storyline.
Way to go on this one. (If they hurry and give it a predecessor name quickly, nobody will notice this whatsit needs attention and a retcon.)

I hope it includes some other life forms that aren't extinct yet by this time period. Also, it better have some caves and a good history of the planet. Maybe some other awesome stuff hidden below the surface.

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Originally Posted by Alexrd

You're not my enemy, at least from my part.

I think he was joking. :P

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Originally Posted by Gurges-Ahter

I read the article - it's about Nal Hutta, not Hoth. The pictures are of Hoth though... not sure what's going on there.

Ugh...I couldn't even tell what that was supposed to be more about--hoth or the Hutt's planet? Seems like the review got a little mixed up in both. I'm confused now.

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Originally Posted by Miltiades

I don't mind seeing planets that played a big part in the movies, as long as they make sense. Planets like Coruscant and Alderaan have remained important for millennia for various reasons, even Tatooine I can understand. But Hoth seems like the planet in the unknown regions of the galaxy that no one knew or cared about until the Rebels found it and planted a base there.

When I look at how it's involved in this from the description, it doesn't make much sense. A planet unworthy of protecting, it just happens to be the place where Republic and Sith fleets accidentally meet. And it's importance during TOR is, in my opinion, dubious. This scrapyard can't be as important as most planets closer to the core and which has people on them.

I tend to agree with you.

Not that I'd ever want to see gungans again, but I'd think Naboo could potentially have more of a background story, maybe a history of some sort? It's a peaceful, beautiful resort planet. However that doesn't mean it couldn't have a past where once there had bee na grand war fought there that caused the inhabitants to resolve to restore it and make it peaceful. Just an idea for content.

I liked the idea of rebuilding Telos and the artificial surface, etc. in TSL--matter of fact Metroid is more or less about cybernetic and mechanical life forms spawning of their own in nature. Cybernetics crossed with nature is one *major* area that has not been touched upon yet and IMO there ought to be an entire planet devoted just to that. I do suspect we will see some surfacing emphasis of Technobeasts and some mentions of Belia Darzu to that end, but that might end up being on Tython unless it just so happens to be elsewhere. My point being here: I want to see more of this sith alchemy at work and I have wanted to see more about Sith technobeasts and similar.

Gall is another planet similar to Tatooine that has smuggler's havens etc.--maybe it could once have had a major population and a mega-metropolitian sized city.

I'm not seeing very much effort to stray out and expand upon what already exists.

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Originally Posted by RogueJedi86

What enigma did Hoth ever have? It was never mysterious, it never had any mysteries. It was an icy hellhole with wampas and tauntauns and lots of snow. There was no enigma to shatter. At least now that it's had a huge battle in orbit in the past, that gives a bit of mystery to the world.

If I came there as a Jedi, it better have a cave full of mysterious crystals or something. That's all I'd have to say about it.

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Originally Posted by JediAthos

In all honesty there's only so many different types of landscapes you can have.

But does it necessarily have to be the same planet? I.E. Mustafar and Serapin are similar in terms of lava climate and little is likeley to have changed in a few thousand years from a geological standpoint.

Also, Imdar has similarity to both Endor Moon and Dagobah. Yes I played Rebel Assault 2.

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As I said before Hoth is an iconic SW location right along with Coruscant, Alderaan, and Tatooine. That, more than anything else, I'm sure is the reason it was included. Along the same line Taris is an iconic KOTOR/Old Republic location which I'm sure is why it was included.

I don't have a problem with it as I previously stated. Iconic locations are a part of any MMO that stems from a long running franchise. WoW has an unfounded number of them, SWG has them etc...etc...

So then what do you have a problem with? I have a problem that it is relying upon more of the same and isn't appearing to strive outward to grow--at least by this point it would appear.

I'd like to also bitch about features innovation for MMO gameplay but since I'm hardly knowledgeable about such things since I've never played an MMO.

Hoth in and of itself isn't necessarily too bad but it looks like the creativity team has little in the way of original new ideas.

This probably my main problem with this game. Everything I see from TOR is just copying the Galactic Empire era in terms of design. I don't understand how they leaped from the designs of KOTOR, TSL and the KOTOR comics, which only happened 300 years earlier. The story and locations seem to lack originality. While the game has alot of back-story, their really doesn't seem to be an actual game-story at the moment, rather just being a Jedi, Republic, Sith or Bounty Hunter and going round doing quests that while in a single player game, would have an impact on the storyline, doing that in a MMO, where alot of people are doing the same thing, doesn't really make an impact probably on how the storyline goes.

I hope it includes some other life forms that aren't extinct yet by this time period. Also, it better have some caves and a good history of the planet. Maybe some other awesome stuff hidden below the surface.

I noticed one other lifeform in the video on Hoth's Holonet page(click the Mountain icon at top right on the page). The first shot in the video shows something moving slightly in the foreground. It looks like a buffalo to me, but it's hard to tell from this distance. Plus Wookieepedia lists several species native to Hoth, and the "Wildlife Guide to Star Wars" shows at least 3 sub-species of tauntauns(Common/Giant Tauntaun, Glacier Tauntaun, and Dwarf/Climbing Tauntaun). Even on Earth we find tons of life in the most inhospitable areas, so Hoth having a lot of wild creatures wouldn't be unreasonable. But yeah, I'm agreeing with you on the other lifeforms, GTA: SWcity.

"Sir,we are beginning our search for these rumored 'underwater villages'.They will not stay hidden for long". -Battle Droid Commander OOM-9!