guys, it's very rare someone is good at something and Dunn is good at being bad. Give him the props he deserves.

thomas35forever

11-26-2011, 11:53 PM

Can he put that in his trophy case for all to see?

cards press box

11-29-2011, 07:55 PM

OK, Dunn was historically awful in 2011. Bill Madden's "award" only serves to highlight the blatantly obvious. To paraphrase Professor Dorr from The Ladykillers, Mr. Madden "flog[s] a horse, that if not dead is at this point in mortal danger of expiring."

I am surprised Rios isn't on this list. I think an argument can be made that Chicago baseball should claim three of the top four spots.

That said, I don't see how Dunn, who was merely bad at baseball this year, is a bigger turkey than Lackey, who appears to have been bad at other things as well.

GlassSox

11-29-2011, 10:24 PM

At-a-boy Adam Dunn, you certainly earned it.

Fenway

11-29-2011, 10:25 PM

What I don't understand is why Ozzie kept putting him the lineup...sometimes you just have to eat your mistakes ( see Giants and Barry Zito )

I am surprised Rios isn't on this list. I think an argument can be made that Chicago baseball should claim three of the top four spots.

That said, I don't see how Dunn, who was merely bad at baseball this year, is a bigger turkey than Lackey, who appears to have been bad at other things as well.

Corlose 15

11-29-2011, 11:21 PM

What I don't understand is why Ozzie kept putting him the lineup...sometimes you just have to eat your mistakes ( see Giants and Barry Zito )

Ozzie was to busy dreaming about opening the Marlins new stadium to give a **** about who was in the lineup this year.

TDog

11-30-2011, 12:49 AM

What I don't understand is why Ozzie kept putting him the lineup...sometimes you just have to eat your mistakes ( see Giants and Barry Zito )

Prior to this season, Barry Zito had 32 or 33 starts in ever season as a Giant, after leading the American League with 34 starts in his last season in Oakland. In 2011, Zito went on the DL for the first time in his career after sustaining an injury while trying to make a play on defense. The Giants left Zito off the postseason roster last year, but they only stopped starting him in his regular regular-season rotation when he went on the DL, to be replaced by a minor leaguer who pitched his way onto the NL All-Star team.

And Zito was a pitcher who had lost velocity, not a hitter who hadn't started hitting. A hitter has a better chance of finding his swing than a pitcher does finding lost velocity.

One way to look at it is that Dunn struck out about as much as he ever did. So every time he struck out, he would have struck out anyway. The difference was that pitchers weren't walking him as much, attacking him in the strike zone, and when he hit the ball, he was hitting into more outs and while walking less in his non-strike-out at bats.

Criticizing Guillen for playing Dunn as much as he did is unfair because had Guillen not played Dunn much during the second half of the season, fans and the media would be criticizing Guillen for not giving Dunn a chance to hit his way out of his slump. Of course, when Konerko was hurt, Dunn pretty much had to play first. And even then, Lillibridge saw a lot more action at first than he really should have.

I only hope that Dunn takes the embarrassment of 2011 seriously and works on making more contact.

Nellie_Fox

11-30-2011, 01:38 AM

One way to look at it is that Dunn struck out about as much as he ever did. So every time he struck out, he would have struck out anyway.Not at all true. His AB to strikeout ratio of 2.3 this year was by far the worst of his career. His career ratio is 3.0, and that is after being dragged down by this year. Prior to this, his worst year was a 2.8, which was last year.

TDog

11-30-2011, 11:30 AM

Not at all true. His AB to strikeout ratio of 2.3 this year was by far the worst of his career. His career ratio is 3.0, and that is after being dragged down by this year. Prior to this, his worst year was a 2.8, which was last year.

For most of the season with the White Sox, people following such things were noting that Dunn was striking out at about the same pace he had the previous year. From August through the rest of the season, he was striking out in more than one-third of his plate appearances. In his last four games, he struck out in 60 percent of his plate appearances.

At the same time, Guillen was playing Dunn less after the All-Star break. Dunn only played in a little more than half of the team's games the last two months of the season. It turns out he was more likely to strike out when he was playing less frequently.

Nellie_Fox

11-30-2011, 01:01 PM

For most of the season with the White Sox, people following such things were noting that Dunn was striking out at about the same pace he had the previous year. From August through the rest of the season, he was striking out in more than one-third of his plate appearances. In his last four games, he struck out in 60 percent of his plate appearances.

At the same time, Guillen was playing Dunn less after the All-Star break. Dunn only played in a little more than half of the team's games the last two months of the season. It turns out he was more likely to strike out when he was playing less frequently.Nope.

April ratio 2.4, May 2.4, June 2.1, July 2.2, August 2.5, Sept/Oct. 2.4. All well below his career numbers, all below his worst year, and worst in June and July.

TDog

11-30-2011, 04:34 PM

Nope.

April ratio 2.4, May 2.4, June 2.1, July 2.2, August 2.5, Sept/Oct. 2.4. All well below his career numbers, all below his worst year, and worst in June and July.

What I posted was what baseball people were saying through midseason. Maybe we're not looking at the same measures. And maybe the numbers weren't that much different from month to month. And maybe Dunn's performance looked worse because he struck out nine times in his last 15 appearances -- 75 percent of the time in his last four games. And, really, it's not that important. If you strike out as much as Adam Dunn has throughout his career and you have as poor a batting average as Adam Dunn has had throughout his career, you aren't a very good hitter. Fans should have expected him to strike out a lot, maybe more than he did in the National League because he didn't know the pitchers. They shouldn't have been surprised that he struck with men on base and with runners on third and less than two outs. Striking out is what he has always done in his career more than anything else.

In the opening day game thread, I expressed concern about Dunn's potential to hurt the White Sox considerably when he struck out in his first at bat with runners on second and third and nobody out. Fortunately, Konerko and Quentin shortened their swings and got two-strike hits to pick him up around (how telling was that first inning?) a Rios strikeout with runners on first and third with one out. Of course, I was attacked.

I am not gloating over the fact that Dunn was every bit the offensive black hole that I expressed concern he would be when the White Sox signed him. I am saying that people who expect great things from hitters who strike out with the frequency of Adam Dunn or Mark Reynolds and have batting averages similar to Adam Dunn or Mark Reynolds don't consistently help a team offensively, regardless of their on-base percentages.

And I am hoping Dunn will take the embarrassment of the 2011 season and work on becoming a hitter who makes more contact. And, really, I hope he has found himself a hitting coach and is seriously doing that in a cage as I type this.

Nellie_Fox

11-30-2011, 04:49 PM

What I posted was what baseball people were saying through midseason. Maybe we're not looking at the same measures. And maybe the numbers weren't that much different from month to month. And maybe Dunn's performance looked worse because he struck out nine times in his last 15 appearances -- 75 percent of the time in his last four games. And, really, it's not that important. If you strike out as much as Adam Dunn has throughout his career and you have as poor a batting average as Adam Dunn has had throughout his career, you aren't a very good hitter. Fans should have expected him to strike out a lot, maybe more than he did in the National League because he didn't know the pitchers. They shouldn't have been surprised that he struck with men on base and with runners on third and less than two outs. Striking out is what he has always done in his career more than anything else.

In the opening day game thread, I expressed concern about Dunn's potential to hurt the White Sox considerably when he struck out in his first at bat with runners on second and third and nobody out. Fortunately, Konerko and Quentin shortened their swings and got two-strike hits to pick him up around (how telling was that first inning?) a Rios strikeout with runners on first and third with one out. Of course, I was attacked.

I am not gloating over the fact that Dunn was every bit the offensive black hole that I expressed concern he would be when the White Sox signed him. I am saying that people who expect great things from hitters who strike out with the frequency of Adam Dunn or Mark Reynolds and have batting averages similar to Adam Dunn or Mark Reynolds don't consistently help a team offensively, regardless of their on-base percentages.

And I am hoping Dunn will take the embarrassment of the 2011 season and work on becoming a hitter who makes more contact. And, really, I hope he has found himself a hitting coach and is seriously doing that in a cage as I type this.Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not defending him. I've been consistent since there was even TALK of signing him that I don't like high-strikeout, low average hitters. I'm just saying that his strikeout numbers this year were not consistent with his already terrible numbers in that regard, but were much worse, and were worse on a month by month basis.

In September and October he struck out 20 times in 47 AB. So, even if you subtract the 9 out of 15, that still leaves 11 out of 32, a very short streak of striking out in "only" a third of his at bats.