I have a cat with beginning stage CRF and want to feed him a good quality LOW PHOSPHORUS content canned or pouch food. wellness canned is too high (don't know about the pouches), evo is too high, and perscription diets are awful and make him sick. I've been trying to get him to eat the frozen prepackaged raw food for several days, but he won't touch it. Any advice/suggestions?

thank you; I appreciate that link. I've pretty much read all there is on the Internet about CRF in the past month! It seems like most people are saying the raw food diet is best, but my cat WILL NOT TOUCH it. :sad: and some people in that thread were discussing Wellness, but the cans have more phosphorus than the pouches, from what I'm finding out. I wonder if anyone has any experiences with wellness pouches on a CRF cat?

I'm sure you know that something around 1% DM or lower is what you're looking for, which roughly translates to 240mg per 100 calories or less. The canned Wellness flavours that fit the bill are Turkey (200mg), Kitten (216mg), Chicken (219mg), and Beef & Chicken (226mg). I have no idea what the Wellness pouches come in at so can't comment on those.

If you want to go even lower, I recommend Innova EVO 95% Venison (146mg) and the 95% Beef (171mg). Felidae Chicken & Rice is also decent if you don't mind some grains (172mg). Some of the Precise flavours (Turkey, Chicken, Triple Delight, Deluxe Medley, and Mixed Grill) are all under 220mg. They also have grains, but small amounts since the overall carb content is quite low.

As far as getting him to eat raw, how have you introduced it? Will he eat a plain piece of cooked chicken breast? You might just have to go really really slowly, putting a pin-prick amount in with his regular food and then ever so gradually increasing the size over the course of several weeks.

thanks! he actually has been eating the EVO venison for a while, but they stopped making it. as you said, it's one of the lowest out there. but he won't eat the beef. and i've been trying to slowly introduce the raw by mixing it into his old food, but he vomits when he tastes it...

I just tried to buy it at my local store the other day, and she said they were discontinuing it indefinately, because deer aren't farmed like other animals and more difficult to come by. I might call Natura and see if it's true. And the raw food is the premade stuff (Nature's Variety chicken). He just can't seem to stomach the consistency, or flavor, or something.

I just tried to buy it at my local store the other day, and she said they were discontinuing it indefinately,

I hope not! My dude loves it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandyb771

And the raw food is the premade stuff (Nature's Variety chicken). He just can't seem to stomach the consistency, or flavor, or something.

My cat (Aztec) hated Nature's Variety raw at first too, but now he loves it. Maybe start with just some plain chicken (thigh or breast) from the grocery store. Boil it lightly and see if he'll go for it. If so, you can cook it less and less until he's eating it raw (not more than 10% of his diet since it's not balanced). He may just need to get used to the texture and smell of raw meat, which is quite different from any commercial pet food.

Some other tricks for getting cats to eat what you want:
- Sprinkle some powdered freeze-dried meat treats like Halo Liv-a-Littles or Real Food Toppers on the canned/raw.
- Pulverize a favourite kibble and sprinkle that on top.
- Some cats like a dusting of parmesan cheese on their food.
- Mix the new food with something irresistible like plain meat baby food (no onions) or tuna.

I also find just leaving the new food on a plate next to the cat's regular dish so they get used to the smell can be helpful. Sometimes they'll even try it when you aren't looking. It's okay to leave canned food out all day, and I even leave raw out for several hours (although it tends to dry out and get LESS appetizing - but my cat will still eat it).

Hi Mandy, is this Henry the ARF cat that now has early stage CRF or one of your other cats?

Can you list the Creatinine, Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN or Urea), Phosphorus, Calcium and Urine Specific Gravity (USG) from the most recent tests.

Does the vet have him on any treatments now?

The Wellness canned Turkey; Chicken; Beef & Chicken; Evo 95% Vension; 95% Beef are the lowest phos of the grain free holistic foods I've tried. My grrl when she was eating canned didn't like either of those Evo varieties but loved all three of the Wellness ones.

Nature's Variety Instinct flavours look like they are all 0.80% dry matter phos but that is the min/max levels not an acurate value and I know for sure the rabbit is higher than 1% phos. As mentioned in my thread I tried to get an absolute value from NV but they just directed me to their site.

The Wellness values I listed in my thread are absolute values cuz the company rep emailed them to me. I do not have the values for the pouches however & the flavour combinations are different. If you check the back of the pouch it will give an amount of moisture and phos (among others) on the label if that is listed as 'not more than or min/max' that is also not a 100% accurate value. If it lists a nutrient analysis and/or gives an absolute value I can convert the dry matter basis for you.

From the geocities site you can see some of the crappy foods (Friskies etc) have low phos numbers too but what you gain in low phos you lose in overall healthyness

Raw definately is best but some cats just will not recoginize it as food, so it takes time & patience.

__________________
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The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food

Nature's Variety Instinct flavours look like they are all 0.80% dry matter phos but that is the min/max levels not an acurate value and I know for sure the rabbit is higher than 1% phos. As mentioned in my thread I tried to get an absolute value from NV but they just directed me to their site.

Growler, I emailed NV about their phosphorus levels and I was told to go by what is listed under "Minerals" column, not by their guaranteed analysis, it is more accurate:

Just popping in to say that I don't believe Natura is discontinuing the venison formula. My store has tons of it... and I'm sure I would have heard about it because we sell a heck of alot of Evo and Natura products in general.

>>>>>>GROWLER: Hi Mandy, is this Henry the ARF cat that now has early stage CRF or one of your other cats?

yes--he's the poor fellow who was ARF a month and a half ago.

>>>>>>GROWLER: Can you list the Creatinine, Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN or Urea), Phosphorus, Calcium and Urine Specific Gravity (USG) from the most recent tests.

Last test results only included bloodwork; she couldn't get any urine from him a week ago. On Oct. 20, though, she did, and I remember her saying his urine is very dilute (he drinks A LOT). Here are the last two tests, the first on 10/20 and the past one on 11/7:
BUN: 25, CRE: 2.1, Phos: 3.0---------two weeks later: BUN:26, CRE: 2.3 (the only above normal limit), and Phos: 4.6 (obviously way up in two weeks). She seems to think it is because I switched his food in that two-week period, from Hill's K/D (awful stuff) to EVO venison.

>>>>>>GROWLER: Does the vet have him on any treatments now?

No, she did mention one (Azodyl) but says "it's not time for that now."

I think the chicken has about 1.2% phosphorus dry matter. Venison is extremely high.

Yes it does put the chicken at 1.22% but that is based on a Max value for moisture at 75% not an absolute value so it's still a little off ie if the absolute moisture is 71.56% that would drop the dm phos to 1.07% but you can't be sure cuz moisture is only listed as Max value

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandyb771

>>>>>>GROWLER: Hi Mandy, is this Henry the ARF cat that now has early stage CRF or one of your other cats?

yes--he's the poor fellow who was ARF a month and a half ago.

>>>>>>GROWLER: Can you list the Creatinine, Blood Urea Nitrogen (BUN or Urea), Phosphorus, Calcium and Urine Specific Gravity (USG) from the most recent tests.

Last test results only included bloodwork; she couldn't get any urine from him a week ago. On Oct. 20, though, she did, and I remember her saying his urine is very dilute (he drinks A LOT). Here are the last two tests, the first on 10/20 and the past one on 11/7:
BUN: 25, CRE: 2.1, Phos: 3.0---------two weeks later: BUN:26, CRE: 2.3 (the only above normal limit), and Phos: 4.6 (obviously way up in two weeks). She seems to think it is because I switched his food in that two-week period, from Hill's K/D (awful stuff) to EVO venison.

>>>>>>GROWLER: Does the vet have him on any treatments now?

No, she did mention one (Azodyl) but says "it's not time for that now."

The BUN value is affected by dehydration, urine crystals, stress and food whereas Creatinine is a slightly more accurate measure because it is not affected as much by these. Creatinine is a by product of muscle so large muscular male cats may also have normally higher creatinine levels.

The Hills k/d has a dm phos of 0.38% and the Evo 95% venison has 0.77% I would say it probably wasn't just the food change based on 2 weeks time frame. My cat went from canned to raw and her phos levels have always stayed well within normal values and have hardly even changed in the last year.

Unfortunately with conventional vet medicine they tend to treat based almost exclusively on the test values. With CRF it is far more important to treat the cat not the numbers. They will put off most treatments until the numbers show it is warrented instead of helping with something now.

[QUOTE=growler;694295]
Are you willing/open to homeopathic treatments?

Yes! in fact, i just took him to a holistic vet yesterday, but she was more of a combo traditional vet and holistic vet. she's the one who recommended he begin Azodyl immediately. unfortunately, there are no true holistic vets within a fifty-mile radius of where i live. and thanks for the sites--I've seen all of those, and most of what's on the net about feline CRF. I've been reading all there is out there in the past month.

Yes it does put the chicken at 1.22% but that is based on a Max value for moisture at 75% not an absolute value so it's still a little off ie if the absolute moisture is 71.56% that would drop the dm phos to 1.07% but you can't be sure cuz moisture is only listed as Max value

Thanks for that growler. I really want to change Puddles' food to Instinct but thought it was too high in phosphorus for her.

Recently joined after searching the internet for good low phosphorus grain free wet food for my 14.7 year old male cat who has recently been diagnosed with CRF.

For a long while now he has been eating Evo Canned Turkey Chicken product. He loves it - but - sadly upon my last visit to the local pet food store I was informed that Evo (among other brands) had been recently purchased by Proctor and Gamble. Food is being discontinued there due to P&G's animal testing practices. I also, will not support them soo - I am now on a mission to find another brand he likes and is good for his struggling kidneys.

a bit of info re: his levels:

Creatinine: 3.8
BUN: 44

urine very dilute and he is slightly dehydrated.
Potassium is on the "lower end" of normal. (I did not get an exact number)

I have yet to try the rx diet that I will be getting from the vet's office but, doing research I'm finding many of those foods have grain and his stomach does not tolerate grain.

I slowly started introducing him to Instinct by Nature's Variety and he seems to be warming up to this. Phosphorus seems to be pretty low: 0.307%

Anyone else out here have a suggestion?

I may try the raw food but he is such a picky eater that I don't want to mess with his preferences.

My 16 yr old cat Baby was diagnosed with CRF over a year ago. Her numbers are better now than they were over a year ago. I feed her Royal Canin canned renal diet, HOWEVER, she just will not eat that all the time, and even though she will allow me to assist feed her (I use a dropper meant to give medicine with that I cut the end off so that it sucks up cat food -- she is used to me feeding her at times) ANYWAY, I search all the time -- and call the 800 numbers on cat food to check the phosphorus and sodium contents of foods and then compare them to the Renal Diet.

WELL, I just found out that FRISKIES Selects INDOOR canned cat food in the "Classic Chicken Entree" (with Brown Rice & Garden Greens) has not only 7% Protein but only 0.35% Phosphorus and 0.09 Sodium according to the folks at Friskies at the 1-800 ont he can ! AND she LOVES IT.

Baby had a scare with temporary blindness about a month ago. I knew right away that it was caused by high blood pressure from what I read on the CRF sites. I got her to the Vet right away and got her on .5Mil daily of high blood pressure medicine ( I have it mixed in a liquid by the pharmacy and salmon flavored so its easy to give). Her vision improved immediately and got better over 2 weeks time and she is almost her old self again.

If you have a CRF cat, even if it seems to be doing well, be sure to have your vet check their blood pressure. Most vets have the equipment to do it. They actually put something on the paw and check it. High blood pressure can cause blindness very quickly -- like overnight -- but the cats site can be regained if the blood pressure is lowered quick enough.

I slowly started introducing him to Instinct by Nature's Variety and he seems to be warming up to this. Phosphorus seems to be pretty low: 0.307%

The value you have listed here is the as fed value on the can which includes the moisture content, as moisture varies widely for different foods it is not an accurate value for comparison to other flavours/brands. The as fed value needs to be converted to dry matter (removing all water weight) basis to be accurate for comparing.

As I mentioned in an earlier post in this thread the NV Instinct Chicken dry matter basis phos is likely somewhere between 1.07% - 1.20%. Their site is currently under construction so I don't know if they have defined the actual moisture content of their food.

You can also have him try Wellness Chicken; Turkey; Chicken & Beef

__________________
Avoid biting when a simple growl will do

The Spirit Lives As Long As Someone Who Lives Remembers You - Navaho Saying

Vindication ~ For all those pets who became sick or lost their lives from tainted pet food

WELL, I just found out that FRISKIES Selects INDOOR canned cat food in the "Classic Chicken Entree" (with Brown Rice & Garden Greens) has not only 7% Protein but only 0.35% Phosphorus and 0.09 Sodium according to the folks at Friskies at the 1-800 ont he can ! AND she LOVES IT.

Again that amount is the as fed value, not the dry matter value for accurate comparison.

If you take the 0.35% as fed phos & convert it to dry matter value based on the amount of listed moisture - the food has 1.59% dry matter phos that is WAY too high for a CRF cat! You want a food that has around 1 - 1.10% or lower, food that is upto 1.20% is okay on a limited basis 1 or 2 meals per week but definately no higher.

Does anyone know of a more up-to-date food analysis chart - especially one showing the phosphorus. My precious 13-year-old was treated with I-131 a month ago, and was just diagnosed with CFR.

Some of the recommendations in this forum contradict the information I found when searching for HIGH phosphorus foods (in order to know what NOT to feed her). It listed all poultry and beef as being high. Now I am confused. Anyone have any advice of the subject?

Does anyone know of a more up-to-date food analysis chart - especially one showing the phosphorus. My precious 13-year-old was treated with I-131 a month ago, and was just diagnosed with CFR.

There are tables at this link that seem to have more up-to-date info, although I think there are "errors" (or rather, the manufacturers aren't being totally truthful): http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm For instance, some of the brands (Weruva, Best Feline Friend, By Nature Organics, Brandon Farms Organic) list the exact same nutrient profile for every flavour, which is pretty much impossible. Considering Weruva and BFF are the same company, and By Nature and Brandon Farms are also the same, it does make one suspicious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rascals

Some of the recommendations in this forum contradict the information I found when searching for HIGH phosphorus foods (in order to know what NOT to feed her). It listed all poultry and beef as being high. Now I am confused. Anyone have any advice of the subject?

The best thing might be to contact the manufacturers yourself and see what they say. You're right about formulas changing frequently. There was a time when By Nature was extremely high in phosphorus, but if the table above is accurate, then it's now quite low.

I must admit I wept a little when I saw this website. My best friend Greymalkin was diagnosed with CRF 2 months ago and I'm in the thick of things testing different foods to see what he will and will not eat. I've sat up with him at night pleading that he would atleast finish a 1/2 a mini can of K/d... this whole thing is heroing.

That said, Grey is taking it like a champ, he's perfectly happy. As far as he is concerned mommy is just a nut job. He also likes all the extra attention.

On the talk about water intake I found a great article on making flavored waters :
" While you are working toward getting your cat to eat canned food, you can increase their water intake by using flavored waters such as tuna water, beef or chicken broth, clam juice, lactose-free cat milk, etc.You can make you own tuna water by adding 3 cups of water to a can of tuna. Mash it up and let it sit for ~15 minutes then pour the water into covered (to help maintain freshness) ice cube trays. 3 cups of water will fill two 16-cube trays. The ice cube trays can be used for other flavored liquids as well."

I've given him the lactose-free catsip to boost his caloric intake and he loves it but the tuna slurry is in the freezer now so I can try it. It sounds disgusting but if it works

I didn't see anywhere in here about giving electrolites to help with the renal failler. I bot a bottle from a pharmacy for $3. I squirt it in her mouth 3-4 times a day, (3ml each). It makes all the difference. She can eat and play and feels good again.
My Russian Blue is only 2, but she was vaccinated again before I adopted her and that destroyed her kidneys.

HEllo
I have 2 dogs and 5 cats one cat with the starting stage of CRF. He is an older outside cat I got from the people who moved out a few years back, He was lossing weight and not doing well then I came across this forum and started with the wellness Low phosphorus canned food and raw chicken, he is doing much better now so thanks to everyone form all the info. Now I want ot start feeding all my pets a better diet! I know Grain free is a big term right now but I was also looking at the Wysong food products and they seem Very much against grain free and go for starch free! Has anyone got any experience with this brand for dogs or cats?
Thanks!
Rob

He was lossing weight and not doing well then I came across this forum and started with the wellness Low phosphorus canned food and raw chicken, he is doing much better now so thanks to everyone form all the info.

Fantastic!

Quote:

Originally Posted by grontrek

Now I want ot start feeding all my pets a better diet! I know Grain free is a big term right now but I was also looking at the Wysong food products and they seem Very much against grain free and go for starch free! Has anyone got any experience with this brand for dogs or cats?

I'm not a big fan of most of the Wysong foods for cats (except the Au Jus canned, for occasional feeding only since it's just meat and not nutritionally balanced). They have some whacked ingredients in most of their products, like plums. Seriously? Plums? But my biggest issue with the Epigen dry foods is that they're dry. Cats need the moisture of a wet food diet. Their low thirst drive results in chronic dehydration when only eating kibble, and consequently puts them at big risk for a number of health conditions like bladder/urinary tract disorders and even renal insufficiency. So if you can manage to feed all your kitties either canned or a balanced raw diet, that would be my number one recommendation. Maybe the doggies would be fine on Wysong though .