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If we're talking about what to do moving forward my personal plan would be as follows:

-stay the course till the deadline.

-move anyone and everyone that has an expiring contract as well as amac/gudas/weise if it makes sense

-trim the fat around the edges of the roster via waivers at this point

-call up all projected tweeners and bottom half of roster guys in the A. NAK/Friedman/Vorobyev and whoever else may be a future contributor. You do this to learn who may be worth a bottom half of the roster spot.

-run with stolarz and Lyons the rest of the way to find out what you have and whether or not you can trust them to be 1b/backup options next season.

-allow hart to be the guy in the A.

-Go into the offseason intent on moving jake voracek for the best Hockey trade.

-hire Quinnville

-have to be in in all top 6 forwards. and anyone with a dash of speed in their game that becomes available.

Agreed with a couple of exceptions....if the price for Goudas isn't right, I woudln't move him. RH shot and can play well in a bottom pairing role as long as he doesn't cross the line. As for Hart, that would depend on how bad that would make the Phantoms. If the phantoms would then end up equally bad if not worse, just keep him up and let him play.

I'm all for trading Jake, but I see that going down as more of a 'change of senery' type of trade where we'll get a comparable player (and salary) back. At that point, meh.

Agreed with a couple of exceptions....if the price for Goudas isn't right, I woudln't move him. RH shot and can play well in a bottom pairing role as long as he doesn't cross the line. As for Hart, that would depend on how bad that would make the Phantoms. If the phantoms would then end up equally bad if not worse, just keep him up and let him play.

I'm all for trading Jake, but I see that going down as more of a 'change of senery' type of trade where we'll get a comparable player (and salary) back. At that point, meh.

Edit: Let's bring Jagr back again. Worked out well the first time

Gudas- I have the caveat there that it needs to be a sensible trade

Jake- hockey trade implies that the return should be NHL talent

Lol jagr

As far as hart goes, I already know my plans for him.

I need to figure out the other guys, and I'm not learning anything with them not playing. I dont want to restrict harts practice time or game time, as clearly some improvement is still needed. I'd like to rotate lyon and stolarz to find out if either is dependable enough to be the #2/1b next season. If the answer is a no, a vet would need signed. If the answer is yes. A vet is still needed. Just more likely someone in the Calvin Picard mold than Ryan miller.

I need to figure out the other guys, and I'm not learning anything with them not playing. I dont want to restrict harts practice time or game time, as clearly some improvement is still needed. I'd like to rotate lyon and stolarz to find out if either is dependable enough to be the #2/1b next season. If the answer is a no, a vet would need signed. If the answer is yes. A vet is still needed. Just more likely someone in the Calvin Picard mold than Ryan miller.

Figured a laugh could be had about Jagr haha.

So for Jake, to me a hockey trade and a change of scenery trade is different. A hockey trade was sending Carter to CBJ for V and a 1st. Change of scenery trade sees us do dumb **** like JVR for L. Schenn. That's what I wanna stay away from.

For the other guys not playing, you're totally right. I just don't wanna see us gut the farm and bring up all real talent and then Hart is stuck playing in the A with Knight and Verone or whatever 28 year old career minor leaguers they'd fill the roster with.

So for Jake, to me a hockey trade and a change of scenery trade is different. A hockey trade was sending Carter to CBJ for V and a 1st. Change of scenery trade sees us do dumb **** like JVR for L. Schenn. That's what I wanna stay away from.

For the other guys not playing, you're totally right. I just don't wanna see us gut the farm and bring up all real talent and then Hart is stuck playing in the A with Knight and Verone or whatever 28 year old career minor leaguers they'd fill the roster with.

I believe the definition of Hockey Trade is something along the lines of:

Swapping NHL talent in order to either change things up or improve a weakness while dealing from a strength.

The inclusion of future assets/prospects typically makes it, not a hockey trade imo.

hagg, ghost and provorov are keepers. that means sanheim or myers are tradeable for a top pair defenseman or the right forward.
i love simmonds, but if we can get the right package (maybe a #1 and timo meier from SJS), i'm taking it.
i love voracek, but if we can get two #1s, a top prospect (maybe glass from VGK or tippett from FLA) and other miscellaneous goodies, i'm taking that, too.

get younger, cheaper and faster on the wings.
clear bad contracts.
get an experienced defenseman to lead our young D corps and kill penalties.
get a two-way center who can carry 2 rookie linemates and kill penalties.

one year ago, i thought a top 4 with provorov/ghost/hagg and a veteran top pair defenseman would be good enough to win a cup in the near future. i am no longer convinced that is still true.

i also think the gap in quality between sanheim/myers/hagg and provorov/ghost has narrowed due to the development of the 1st group and the regression of the 2nd group. due to that narrowing, if the right offer comes for provorov, i would be willing to negotiate.

Said I wasn’t back for a while but read BSH (obviously still love the flyers even though they suck), and PEM must still be reading these boards because ACE - your “stealth tank” was in his latest article (unless it is purely coincidental)

Only back for really really funny things, or when something actually happens besides losing and sucking, such as trades or waivers.

Sorry guys, I can’t do silly time with all these FA moves and trades. It’s too unrealistic. We should do everything we can to acquire #1 and draft Hughes - that is the prize of this miserable season. We should play Hart but not at a rate he will be injured. We should trade Simmonds. Pending expansion rules, bring up Myers, keep him down if we could lose him. That is it. We are too far into the woods to turn back now.

Said I wasn’t back for a while but read BSH (obviously still love the flyers even though they suck), and PEM must still be reading these boards because ACE - you’re “stealth tank” was in his latest article (unless it is purely coincidental)

Only back for really really funny things, or when something actually happens besides losing and sucking, such as trades or waivers.

Sorry guys, I can’t do silly time with all these FA moves and trades. It’s too unrealistic. We should do everything we can to acquire #1 and draft Hughes - that is the prize of this miserable season. We should play Hart but not at a rate he will be injured. We should trade Simmonds. Pending expansion rules, bring up Myers, keep him down if we could lose him. That is it. We are too far into the woods to turn back now.

I mean his article is essentially what I previously posted with less details.

only realistic one is 2 and 3. 2 won't happen because leafs will be in a contract mess soon. 3 sucks for us. 1 and 4 are laughable for the other team. lets just trade voracek for tarasenko too. trading voracek for well established players will be really hard.

I believe the definition of Hockey Trade is something along the lines of:

Swapping NHL talent in order to either change things up or improve a weakness while dealing from a strength.

The inclusion of future assets/prospects typically makes it, not a hockey trade imo.

Examples of what I'd call a hockey trade:

Larson for hall
Jvr for schenn
Johanson for seth Jones
Pk for Weber

I'd argue that since we traded Carter for a player who made the roster and a pick that instantly made the roster, that would be a hockey trade. We needed to shake things up and needed a winger that could grow and we needed top talent, which the #8 overall gave us. I guess we just see that a bit differently.

For the trades listed, I'll give you that (for the most part) those were established players and you traded from strenght for need and you know what you were gonna get. I'll give you that, with the exception of JVR and Schenn. That was a trade that was widely seen as a "get them in new cities to see if they get their game going", which to me is not a hockey trade imo. Yeah, we got a D man that we needed, but he was "unproven" in the eyes of some (even though we here knew he sucked cuz TOR rushed him).

Sorry if my explanation of this is ******, I'm also in meetings right now.

only realistic one is 2 and 3. 2 won't happen because leafs will be in a contract mess soon. 3 sucks for us. 1 and 4 are laughable for the other team. lets just trade voracek for tarasenko too. trading voracek for well established players will be really hard.

Agreed, 1 and 4 we get hung up on.

2 seems like it would work well for both sides but you're taking 7 mil back and sending 8+ the other way. I doubt TOR does this without us taking at least ONE more bad contract from them since they'll need to resign Matthews, Lindhold and Marner, along with others that are due to be RFA/UFA. And then there's performance bonuses they may have to pay out this year that get tacked on to next year's cap. Honestly, I totally see them trying to trade Marleau by himself for prospects/picks to get rid of his salary and decide on Kapanen later. Also totally see them trying to tack Horton onto a trade so they don't have that dead cap space sitting there anymore (it matters in the summers).

The only way I do 3 is if LAK retains 50% of Kovie's salary, and even then I'd want more in return for taking him.

just trade simmonds, raffl, an weal. try and call up myers, voro, nak. thats it. I wouldn't trade gudas this season because if morin doesn't look good we need gudas. If we end up trading gudas and morin doesn't look like he belongs, amac is the next guy we have to play. Myers and gudas on the roster can potentially take amac off it unless we trade gudas and sign someone via fa (which probably won't happen if we already have amac and morin here).

just trade simmonds, raffl, an weal. try and call up myers, voro, nak. thats it. I wouldn't trade gudas this season because if morin doesn't look good we need gudas. If we end up trading gudas and morin doesn't look like he belongs, amac is the next guy we have to play. Myers and gudas on the roster can potentially take amac off it unless we trade gudas and sign someone via fa (which probably won't happen if we already have amac and morin here).

shame rubstov got injured, he was really playing well

I'm all for trading those 3. I have a soft spot for Raffl for some reason and I think he could still be useful on this team, but that may just be bias talking. You're 100% right on Gudas tho. He shouldn't be moved unless it's a deal we can't pass up.

As for the call ups, at this point it really does seem like they're not calling him up due to expansion. That's the only thing it could be at this point, in my mind at least.

one year ago, i thought a top 4 with provorov/ghost/hagg and a veteran top pair defenseman would be good enough to win a cup in the near future. i am no longer convinced that is still true.

i also think the gap in quality between sanheim/myers/hagg and provorov/ghost has narrowed due to the development of the 1st group and the regression of the 2nd group. due to that narrowing, if the right offer comes for provorov, i would be willing to negotiate.

I'm looking at Provorov (especially) as someone in the Tier 1. I understand your reasoning, but a legitimate, 21-year-old #1 defenseman is not something that comes along often. We are fortunate to have a guy in Provy who does have Norris-caliber upside. I'm not trading him, unless EDM is offering McDavid.

I don't feel compelled to include Laughton in the same category as Myers, Patrick & Sanheim - if someone comes calling for him, I'm listening.

I'm also including Giroux in the "tier-1" assets, simply because (1) he has a full NMC and (2) he's the face of the franchise. I want Giroux to retire a Flyer.

I do have a concern about JVR - we just signed him. Doesn't look good to trade someone you just signed.