it has become necessary to remove an asura from this place.Despite the discussions and conversations elsewhere concerning Buddhist insight and practice with devas and asuras etc., I've not been able to progress insofar in this regard. So, I'm starting a discussion here on this whim, sort of.

What are some references or ideas to removing an asura?

We negotiated him to live her room but now he is worsening the household. It didn't bear well. It isn't a dire situation, no one is dire yet but he is very malign and does cause problems with mood, health, and pestilence. Also she is in a vulnerable stage right now spiritually.

This is more along the lines of: How would you remove a bad person from your house, if they were invisible and powerful and didn't want to leave?

Son wrote:it has become necessary to remove an asura from this place.Despite the discussions and conversations elsewhere concerning Buddhist insight and practice with devas and asuras etc., I've not been able to progress insofar in this regard. So, I'm starting a discussion here on this whim, sort of.

What are some references or ideas to removing an asura?

We negotiated him to live her room but now he is worsening the household. It didn't bear well. It isn't a dire situation, no one is dire yet but he is very malign and does cause problems with mood, health, and pestilence. Also she is in a vulnerable stage right now spiritually.

This is more along the lines of: How would you remove a bad person from your house, if they were invisible and powerful and didn't want to leave?

I've heard that the Heart Sutra read aloud (with the clapping at the end) can remove unwanted entities.

There is also a ritual a Gelugpa Geshe can use, translated into Tibetan by Je Tsongkhapa, but you must ask one yourself as I promised not to reveal it. I believe monks from Drepung monastery possess this practice.

You may also be able to receive guidance on mantras to chant and offerings to make, but again a personal consultation with a Lama is best.

I don't know what other traditions would advise.

Please try to regard all such beings with compassion (this is also a defence for your mind) and don't perform any rituals etc. unless you have total confidence in them.

If your Samantha is strong enough so that you see devas then it's strong enough to deal with bad situations. In fact the point is to take these bad situations to the path. If you can't do that, then practice generosity and make a gift of where you live. Move out in other words. Practicing rituals is a group thing. If you do it by yourself then you're strengthening your own ego and that's maybe what the Asura feeds off.

The Blessed One said:

"What is the All? Simply the eye & forms, ear & sounds, nose & aromas, tongue & flavors, body & tactile sensations, intellect & ideas. This, monks, is called the All. Anyone who would say, 'Repudiating this All, I will describe another,' if questioned on what exactly might be the grounds for his statement, would be unable to explain, and furthermore, would be put to grief. Why? Because it lies beyond range." Sabba Sutta.

Andrew108 wrote:If your Samantha is strong enough so that you see devas then it's strong enough to deal with bad situations. In fact the point is to take these bad situations to the path. If you can't do that, then practice generosity and make a gift of where you live. Move out in other words. Practicing rituals is a group thing. If you do it by yourself then you're strengthening your own ego and that's maybe what the Asura feeds off.

Leaving is not an option in this situation. And we are all together in a group. We had to group together just to force the asura to reveal itself, originally he was hiding. I've been familiar with ritual my entire life, so that's no problem. He isn't feeding off me, he's feeding off the way this household has been for a long, long time. He was already here before she (my friend) moved here, and he is most interested in her than anything else.

I would ask him what he wanted. You suggested he was prepared to negotiate, so start some kind of dialogue.I would also work with my own view - instead of seeing him as "bad" I would try to come to some sort of understanding of his behaviour. If you see him as unwanted, maybe consider your own wants and dislikes. He is there for a reason, once you discover what that is you can take responsibility for the solution.If you feel he is feeding off something negative then also work to cut off his supply - if something is providing entertainment then by stopping that he will have to look elsewhere.

best wishes.

we cannot get rid of God because we still believe in grammar - Nietzsche

futerko wrote:I would ask him what he wanted. You suggested he was prepared to negotiate, so start some kind of dialogue.I would also work with my own view - instead of seeing him as "bad" I would try to come to some sort of understanding of his behaviour. If you see him as unwanted, maybe consider your own wants and dislikes. He is there for a reason, once you discover what that is you can take responsibility for the solution.If you feel he is feeding off something negative then also work to cut off his supply - if something is providing entertainment then by stopping that he will have to look elsewhere.

best wishes.

Thank you.What we are going to do, is Monday, we're going to clean the house and tidy everything up. Then I'm going to cleanse the household, erect this Laughing Buddha she has, and then while they pray I'm going to bless the space. I'm using my singing bowl and chanting the Lord Avalokiteshvara's mantra (om mane padme hung). We'll see how things go from there, and hopefully he won't be so inclined to ignore me, and perhaps even participate with us.

I do not think starting or fueling a conflict is the way to go. I would suggest the idea of "evicting an asura" to "asking an asura to be nice".

I don't know if the asura has been at your place before you moved in, so as far as he is concerned you might have invaded his home and it is your group of people that should be evited (correct me if I'm wrong here).

There is also the possibility that this asura is a karmic debtor of yours or one of your housemates'. In this case it is in the asura's right to claim from you (or your housemate) and cause trouble.

From what I have learned, the Buddhist and compassionate way to do things is to make peace and be nice to him. The currency of value for all beings in samsara is good karma. Do good deeds, including read sutra and dharani, and redirect the good karma to the asura. Be respectful to him, because in samsara an asura is a higher being than us humans. (You wouldn't like it very much to be evicted from a house by say a group of ghosts or animals, would you?) Ask him nicely that your group wants to be left undisturbed, and coexist.

You'd never know - an asura can be a great Dharma protector - so if things turn out well imagine having him protect you and your group against your real enemies of Buddhist practice.

If you want I can chant dharani and redirect some of the good karma to this asura - do you know his name? Or PM me the address.

I do not think starting or fueling a conflict is the way to go. I would suggest the idea of "evicting an asura" to "asking an asura to be nice".

I haven't tried to fuel conflict. I simply do not think this particular asura, as an individual, should be with the people living in this house. Not including me, exclusively.

I don't know if the asura has been at your place before you moved in, so as far as he is concerned you might have invaded his home and it is your group of people that should be evited (correct me if I'm wrong here).

We do not know that either because he hasn't felt like telling me yet, but I don't see how that matters much, because it is a human home built by humans and paid for by the human who is renting it. Even if he was here before us, it is because he crashed there; and even if he was invited (slim chance at about 2%) by a previous owner, that owner no longer lives there.

There is also the possibility that this asura is a karmic debtor of yours or one of your housemates'. In this case it is in the asura's right to claim from you (or your housemate) and cause trouble.

I'm not sure I understand. I wouldn't let someone stay sick untreated or not remove an arrow from their chest, or not call the police on a serial killer just because it's their "karmic debt" to something. This is not helpful, or compassionate. I've never had the intention of even inconveniencing the asura. He has decided to be very difficult and malicious. I pity him for it, we don't resent him but that doesn't mean he isn't causing problems.

From what I have learned, the Buddhist and compassionate way to do things is to make peace and be nice to him.

As always, and we sure have tried.

The currency of value for all beings in samsara is good karma. Do good deeds, including read sutra and dharani, and redirect the good karma to the asura. Be respectful to him, because in samsara an asura is a higher being than us humans.

In many ways, yes... I am planning on chanting, prayer, cleansing, and merit transfer already.

(You wouldn't like it very much to be evicted from a house by say a group of ghosts or animals, would you?) Ask him nicely that your group wants to be left undisturbed, and coexist.

In this thread I have explained that we have spoken with him already in detail. I'm not just labeling him as negative, we tried to compromise with him and he is deliberately mischievous. Deva, asura, preta, whatever if he was a positive presence than I'd be happy to help him and somehow help everyone mutually benefit from living together. Hasn't been the case so far, but based on the action we're taking, we'll see what happens. If you have any other suggestions, let me know.

You'd never know - an asura can be a great Dharma protector - so if things turn out well imagine having him protect you and your group against your real enemies of Buddhist practice.

Asking for blood offering, objects, slaves, worshipers, etc. and only bringing negativity and pressure to the household, causing division and what not--this does not sound like a being who wants to protect Dharma, or protect us in any way. In fact, he will not even listen to me speaking to him because of my Dharma refuge and practice.

If you want I can chant dharani and redirect some of the good karma to this asura - do you know his name? Or PM me the address.

I can ask someone to ask him and listen to his response. However I have very weak vision so not guarantees. He doesn't speak completely English either and it can be confusing.Thank you for your effort.

There is also the possibility that this asura is a karmic debtor of yours or one of your housemates'. In this case it is in the asura's right to claim from you (or your housemate) and cause trouble.

I'm not sure I understand. I wouldn't let someone stay sick untreated or not remove an arrow from their chest, or not call the police on a serial killer just because it's their "karmic debt" to something. This is not helpful, or compassionate. I've never had the intention of even inconveniencing the asura. He has decided to be very difficult and malicious. I pity him for it, we don't resent him but that doesn't mean he isn't causing problems.

That paragraph of my previous post was meant to be interpreted as a possible reason why the asura has been doing this, not to imply that your group of people should simply accept his behaviour without doing something about it.

Son wrote:Asking for blood offering, objects, slaves, worshipers, etc. and only bringing negativity and pressure to the household, causing division and what not--this does not sound like a being who wants to protect Dharma, or protect us in any way. In fact, he will not even listen to me speaking to him because of my Dharma refuge and practice.

Wow, this is serious stuff! May I ask whether your group of people are dedicated practitioners of Buddhism? If you all are, I would hope your Dharma protectors would protect your group. Unless this asura is extraordinarily powerful... that or he is a karmic debtor (as I mentioned above) of one or more of your group.

Son wrote:

If you want I can chant dharani and redirect some of the good karma to this asura - do you know his name? Or PM me the address.

I can ask someone to ask him and listen to his response. However I have very weak vision so not guarantees. He doesn't speak completely English either and it can be confusing.

If you don't mind you can send the address of the house with a private message. I think I can transfer merit to him with "the asura at address _______".

I am thinking of helping him get the opportunity to be reborn in a Pure Land - if it works and he accepts the offer that'd just be excellent. If not, then at least he can see that we're trying to make peace with him and offer him the best.

Try these five lines from the Shurangama Mantra; as Master Hua says, they are excellent for ridding one of all sorts of demons & their mantras:

4) Dharmas of subduing. Demons also have spiritual penetrations and mantras which they use. When you recite your mantras, they recite their mantras. But if you can use the Shurangama Mantra, you can smash through all their mantras. I've told you before about the section of the mantra which is for smashing the demon kings. It also is effective in destroying their mantras and spells. Although I've taught you this already, it bears repeating here. Those who have not studied this yet can take note of it. Why was it that as soon as the Shurangama Mantra was recited the former Brahma Heaven mantra lost its effectiveness? It was because of the "Five Great Heart Mantras."

Chr Two NiE Jya LaMi Li JuBwo Li Dan La YeNing Jye Li

Just in case these essentials are not obvious: These 'Heart Mantras' do not use hard power, but compassionate, soft loving force. Sincerity or solid confidence in the mantra, from the mind of the user(s) is needed for most effectiveness. Strong Way-Virtue is also a great help.

Kaji wrote:That paragraph of my previous post was meant to be interpreted as a possible reason why the asura has been doing this, not to imply that your group of people should simply accept his behaviour without doing something about it.

All right.

Son wrote:Asking for blood offering, objects, slaves, worshipers, etc. and only bringing negativity and pressure to the household, causing division and what not--this does not sound like a being who wants to protect Dharma, or protect us in any way. In fact, he will not even listen to me speaking to him because of my Dharma refuge and practice.

Wow, this is serious stuff! May I ask whether your group of people are dedicated practitioners of Buddhism? If you all are, I would hope your Dharma protectors would protect your group. Unless this asura is extraordinarily powerful... that or he is a karmic debtor (as I mentioned above) of one or more of your group.

By Dharma protectors, what are you referring to here? As in Bodhisattvas, yidams and dakinis etc.? Or devas? I'm inclined to think of Lord Avalokiteshvara as my principle Dharma protector, and the Shakyamuni Trinity as the principle guardians. Of course the five Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, and especially Bhaisajyaraje as protective guides, at the behest of Adibuddha and the guardian Vajradhara. Is this the sort of thing you're talking about...?

I'm the only Buddhist, but they respect Dharma as I relate it to them. They are not silly Athiests or close-minded Christians. We engage in spiritualism together sometimes.

If you want I can chant dharani and redirect some of the good karma to this asura - do you know his name? Or PM me the address.

I can ask someone to ask him and listen to his response. However I have very weak vision so not guarantees. He doesn't speak completely English either and it can be confusing.If you don't mind you can send the address of the house with a private message. I think I can transfer merit to him with "the asura at address _______".

I am thinking of helping him get the opportunity to be reborn in a Pure Land - if it works and he accepts the offer that'd just be excellent. If not, then at least he can see that we're trying to make peace with him and offer him the best.

That's interesting. I wonder if he could be reborn in a Pure Land... You mean like a Buddha World like ours but a pure field? Who's Pure Land are you referring to? How is it done that you transfer people there, by what method?

Will wrote:Try these five lines from the Shurangama Mantra; as Master Hua says, they are excellent for ridding one of all sorts of demons & their mantras:

4) Dharmas of subduing. Demons also have spiritual penetrations and mantras which they use. When you recite your mantras, they recite their mantras. But if you can use the Shurangama Mantra, you can smash through all their mantras. I've told you before about the section of the mantra which is for smashing the demon kings. It also is effective in destroying their mantras and spells. Although I've taught you this already, it bears repeating here. Those who have not studied this yet can take note of it. Why was it that as soon as the Shurangama Mantra was recited the former Brahma Heaven mantra lost its effectiveness? It was because of the "Five Great Heart Mantras."

Chr Two NiE Jya LaMi Li JuBwo Li Dan La YeNing Jye Li

Just in case these essentials are not obvious: These 'Heart Mantras' do not use hard power, but compassionate, soft loving force. Sincerity or solid confidence in the mantra, from the mind of the user(s) is needed for most effectiveness. Strong Way-Virtue is also a great help.

I've never heard of these. Fascinating! Is there an original source, or a Sanskrit rendition?

I think Remm gives on page 2 of the posts, the Sanskrit for these lines 104 etc of the mantra; but he is only one voice. It comes from the Surangama Sutra. There are other places on the web where I recall seeing Sanskrit versions of the mantra.

Search the web and you will find quite a bit on the sutra & mantra (maybe there is more here at Dharma Wheel).

EDIT: Also, depending on where on this planet you live, contacting one of the Dharma centers that Master Hua founded will give you help. Most of the older disciples know the mantra by heart.

I think Remm gives on page 2 of the posts, the Sanskrit for these lines 104 etc of the mantra; but he is only one voice. It comes from the Surangama Sutra. There are other places on the web where I recall seeing Sanskrit versions of the mantra.

Search the web and you will find quite a bit on the sutra & mantra (maybe there is more here at Dharma Wheel).

EDIT: Also, depending on where on this planet you live, contacting one of the Dharma centers that Master Hua founded will give you help. Most of the older disciples know the mantra by heart.

y1010 wrote:If you are able to not believe it really exist, it will go away. Your belief creates.

My belief does not create you, or other people. My belief does not create animals, or devas. I certainly did not create this asura's life with my belief. If I stop believing in other people, they will not vanish.

The Buddha did not teach that belief creates other beings. He taught that birth, which is conditioned by becoming, which is conditioned by clinging, is created by our own craving.

I think Remm gives on page 2 of the posts, the Sanskrit for these lines 104 etc of the mantra; but he is only one voice. It comes from the Surangama Sutra. There are other places on the web where I recall seeing Sanskrit versions of the mantra.

Search the web and you will find quite a bit on the sutra & mantra (maybe there is more here at Dharma Wheel).

EDIT: Also, depending on where on this planet you live, contacting one of the Dharma centers that Master Hua founded will give you help. Most of the older disciples know the mantra by heart.

Son: The mantra is chedana akala mrtyu prasamana karim?Such a short mantra, without any seed syllable, name, tadyatha or svaha. Do you know what the five heart words stand for?

Did you study up some, about the Surangama Mantra? These are five lines from within its 500 or so lines. Unadorned these verses (Sanskrit or transliterated) will do the trick. (Although I am checking to see if the Sanskrit is correct - the transliterated version has been used much more, so it is probably a better choice.)

In general they stand for compassionate powers & vajra spirits that melt away the demonic. The first line, for example is called the Kuan-Yin As-You-Will Heart Mantra.

Just take refuge in the Triple Jewel a few times, then add Namo Surangama Sangha 7 times or more, then chant the Five Heart Mantras (with other household members if possible).

No need to direct it or identify the target - just know, with full confidence, that this will purify your Way-place & surroundings. How long or how often to use it? That depends on your sincerity, merit & compassion.

1. This mantra is excellent for dealing with mara or demons (the most powerful of which is your inner mara). I do not know if this asura is a mara, so I am not sure if the mantra is useful in dealing with him. In the possibility that he is a karmic debtor of one or more in your group of people, as I have previously mentioned, this mantra may not be most suitable in keeping the asura from claiming his debt.

2. If this mantra does work against him, it would drive him away. It does not mean he will not come back. Worse still, you might have brought the level of conflict to a higher level. I still think the compassionate and making-peace method is the right way to go.

3. Use of the Surangama Mantra requires years of practice and dedication to be truly effective. I do not know if it is the best solution right now.

4. Are you a vegetarian that does not eat eggs nor take alcohol (or other intoxicating substances)?

5. It is a very long mantra, so when chanting it it is easy to lose focus when chanting it, easy to mispronounce or misread some words, easy to feel tired.