The truth about a complex built for veterans and the middle class and how it has evolved through the years to become one of the more interesting and controversial of New York stories.

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Wednesday, July 4, 2012

Another Historic Change Comes to Stuy Town

I'm bumping up this post to add my impressions of the Oval Cafe. The older post remains underneath.

It surprised me that there was no attempt made to restrict the cafe to "residents and their guests," as I'm assuming such an action is mandated by zoning regulations, which seemed to have been clarified for both the Farmers Market and the Stuy Town ice rink. My guess is that we will see at least some signage indicating this rule, but on the first day of business, it wasn't there. No one was checking key cards, either. (As a matter a fact, the sales person I asked behind the counter didn't even know what a key card was.)

The interior of this "refreshed" space is, I think, a significant step down from the way Oval Lounge looked. The floor is an ugly dark-gray mess of swirls that look like a sloppy paint job, while the tall white tables are too Ikea-like. The color scheme of dark-grey, white and blazing orange-red (chairs) is not cozy or inviting.

The menu is pretty dismal, with the Kids Menu (Coming Soon) filled with junk food like chicken fingers, hot dogs, mac & cheese and pizza fingers. Of course, the menu will be popular with children, who will be pulling their mommies and nannies inside to buy the stuff. I guess that's why Oval Cafe has decided on such a menu!

I can't really say anything positive about the Oval Cafe. It's not charming or pleasing in any aesthetic manner, and offers a limited menu that makes the food and drink just a presence rather than a favored food/drink destination. So it's just there, breeding.

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Older post from 6/29:

Oval Cafe. For the first time in Stuy Town's history a 100% commercial enterprise inside the Oval area, all year round. We predicted the slippery slope after the Farmers Market, the Food Trucks and then the Ice Rink. Remarkably, the PR person or firm for this Cafe gloats about food and drink being available "right on property!" The cafe is, we learn, "the result of requests from residents for convenient food amenities within the property" and that it is set "within the quiet of the Oval." (What, the quiet of weekend music events?) Need I mention that the cafe is for "all residents and their guests"? The cafe will open early in the morning and close at 9pm. Already strings of small lightbulbs have been hung, as if a canopy, over the exterior space. I wonder if the lights, the activity, the cooking smells (pizza is coming, too!) will be intrusive to the residents living above the cafe? I wonder if Oval Cafe will breed more rats running around the area? More garbage? I wonder if American Leisure, which runs the enterprise, will be checking key cards to make sure the cafe is used only by residents and their guests? I wonder what's coming next? Surely, there are more ways in which Stuy Town can entertain commercial enterprises within the property. There is, after all, so much empty space and it should be used.

I predict this cafe will be a glowing success. Hell, if they put in Wi-fi also, why should I drudge to Starbucks, which will seem a mile away? Why should I even support Lenz's and buy their pizza, when I now have, for my convenience, a mini-deli available in Stuy Town's backyard? I'm already feeling my lazy bones convincing me that Oval Cafe is the way to go.

Monday, July 2nd, opening day. If they're giving freebies away, I may be there.

81 comments:

Quiet - in the Oval? What are you f'n kidding me? Are we talking about the same place I walked through just recently with the screaming children (NYC students), rabid cyclists trying to deliver food, drugs, etc., not to mention mothers texting while little Johnny is playing afternoon tea with a dead pigeon as his first guest? There are more 'amenities' than Thor has lightning bolts; yeah, great idea expanding to make room for more of the above.

In the 1970s I lived in 270 First Avenue, when there was a fried chicken restaurant in the building. The smells that wafted up were beyond revolting, and I had a cockroach problem I could never conquer. I moved for unrelated reasons, but I was thrilled to get out of that building. I hope this new venture doesn't present the same problems to the people in the building. Of course it's complete rubbish that people want this. The location isn't convenient unless you're right on top of the place.

Thanks Dan. I think we should name it Dan's cafe and print maps showing it just to the north and west of Garodnick Boulevard. I am certain that Dan will make sure that CW and Rose will enforce for residents and their guests only.

Set within the quiet of the Oval, for all residents and their guests, Oval Café will offer baked goods, sandwiches, ice cream, hot and cold beverages, a kids’ menu, and more. The café will continue to expand its offerings throughout the summer as we continue to collect feedback from residents. Oval Essentials and Fitness members also enjoy a 10% discount at the café.

Set within the quiet of the Oval - maybe they will end the summer oval bread and circuses -NOT

Anyway, after the yups stuff themselves on the healthy menu they can go to Oval Fitness to work it off.

Thank God I only have to deal with the noise and fumes wafting up to my apartment from 14th Street! I hope the people who live in the building over the new caf are going to get a rent reduction for living over a commercial hash slinging joint in what is now a busy public plaza when they thought they were living in a "quiet oasis in the city." What hubris and unbridled greed these Rose people have! They should be hung up by their thumbs!

Rodents will love the leftovers.With this many lights it will bring many flying insects.Aren't you supposed to have an exhaust pipe outsideleading away fumes from apartments.What about the fire issues?

Rumor is he will be cutting the ribbon to the grand opening of the cafe. But, seriously, it was Dan's give-in on the Farmers Market that led the way for Oval Cafe. So perhaps "Dan's Cafe" is not a bad thing to call it.

Also... Pizza is the sloppiest food around. Expect trails of it around the Oval Cafe and wherever eaters will take their pizza onto the Oval. And empty pizza boxes, too, with rats feeding on the sticky pizza splats inside.

Will those outside crowds that Stuy Town gets for its music events (crowds informed about the events from the publicity ST puts out to non-residents and their non-guests) have access to Oval Cafe? Do you think management/American Leisure will not sell drink and food items to outsiders?

It's interesting that now that "Oval Cafe" will be a commercial establishment it will be open to all. What happened to the exclusivity? Oh, I forgot, your Oval dues garners a 10&% discount.

We vote with our pockets, and I'm afraid that this will be huge success. Myself and the people who post on this blog (often referred to as whiners) are very much in the minority nowadays. In a sense Tishman Spyer won: I will in fact leave, however, it won't be until I retire which is 9 years away. I suppose that doesn't help them which I am happy about. There was a time though in the not too distant past when I would sit in the oval and say to myself that I would never leave.

Re: the Pizza Fingers. You want to know where they get them? You know those leftovers in the pizza boxes that the "tenants" dump in the recycling area? Yup. That's where they come from. Rose figured that the fly-blow and mouse droppings would be indistinguishable from capers and black pepper. Enjoy! Oh, btw, I believe they were in negotiations with Manny, formerly of Oval Cons y Urge, to work as the catering manager, but Manny said that such a greasy spoon as this is waaaay below his standards. Good for Manny. I miss him.

None of the spaces had a special design. They were just the regular building facades and perhaps an extra door or window. Oval Lounge housed the recreation office and bathroom facilities in the rear. Oval Study was used, for a time, as Security headquarters. The other spaces just housed whatever storage space is in use in other buildings.

I think so, too. I'm not that averse to an Oval Cafe (better than food trucks!), but the consequences of having an eatery like that, with food being baked on premises, should be considered for the residents living above the cafe. I would favor something that's more cafe than pizzeria/hot dog stand, but the aesthetics here have always been low class, despite the push for an upper class tenant base. In reality, what could have been a pleasant amenity for residents (and their guests!) will probably turn out to be smelly, noisy and an attraction for more vermin to breed in the Oval area.

Based on the menu, I don't they're going to have much of a kitchen. I doubt the pastries will be baked onsite, and the rest of the food is probably going to be re-heated, not cooked from scratch. This may account for the the lack of venting, at least at this stage.

That music is just so loud and annoying. All windows closed, air on full blast, and I can still hear screaming (it's definitely not singing). Is it too much to ask for a quiet Saturday afternoon in my own home after working all week?

Oval Cafe, formerly known as the Oval Lounge was the main recreation office. Going way back, Oval Study was also used by the recreation staff to conduct FREE indoor preschools (parents could leave their tots for about 45minutes or so to go shop or whatever) in the winter as well as arts and crafts programs (Similar FREE programs were offerd outdoors in the summer along with organized recreation programs at the various playgrounds. Did I mention that these were all FREE, i.e. no charge.

Oval Study's use as a security station was long after that and did not last long. Oval Kids and Oval Movies were also used for such programs by the recreation department as well as for storage of recreation equipment and for other tasks such as making pllaster of paris molds for Arts & Crafts and signs for the annual art show (which used to display tenant artwork around the perimeter of PCV)and the long gone and much missed annual Flea Market. Tenants paid abut $5-$10 for about six feet of space to dispaly their art work or to sell their junk at the Flea market. These were real community events where neighbors mixed and mingled.

Each of these locations also had public bathrooms and water fountains. One was open each day on either side of the Oval. By the way, the bathrooms were in the front of these facilities, not the rear.

Dan Garodnick, may you sink into oblivion and never be elected again for anything, except maybe to take out the garbage in your house. What a failure and let-down to STPCV tenants you have turned out to be. I would vote for anyone, as in anyone, except you.

10:34...I'm voting for Garodnick. He's done wonderful things for us. You just don't agree. But most of us like him and he's lived here and worked hard for us for years. You haven't done anything for us but complain.

If the Oval area of this property is NOT zoned for commercial activity, then how did they manage to get permission to operate an onsite cafe? Something stinks here. And it should be looked into. TA? Garodnick? Health Department? Building Department?

And, I agree. Councilman Dan Garodnick should be ashamed of himself. He had them by the short hairs on the Greenmarket and caved at the very end. Now, all bets are off. Don't be surprised at what you see next.

Clearly the only way we can be free from the willful destruction of our once quiet oasis in the middle of the City is for CW Capital and Rose Associates to go. Can't wait for the day. They are both despicable entities.

I still have an open mind w/r/t him but I would like to know more about the wonderful things. Could you enumerate his top 5 accomplishments?

And, please, no "supported tenants," "fought for rights," etc. I would really like to know what he has accomplished. I think if that can be quantified, a case for supporting him could be made. Without it, he's just a slimmer version of Tom Duane...

This is from his Web site, (I tried to post the list itself, but it vastly exceeded the 4000 character limit for this space), but they are easily verifiable, if you wanted to look one by one in the city council record site:

Dan's #1 accomplishment for tenants (I feel just like David Letterman):

"Spearheaded a multi-billion-dollar bid to purchase Stuyvesant Town and Peter Cooper Village on behalf of tenants to preserve affordability for middle-class residents."

Preventing double digit+ rent hikes on former market rate apartments would be an accomplishment to preserve affordability but he did not do that. Since we don't know the deal's specifics (more opacity), we have no idea if the spearheaded bid will be affordable at all or even plausible. And, while we're at it, just how much did you offer, Dan? There are 24,969 people still waiting to hear. I'm leaving out Al Doylie and Co because they obviously know already.

I noticed a lot of "spearheaded", "fought", "presided" and "led" on the lists. Those are great resume words. You use them in place of stating actual accomplishments.

You know the expression "last but not least?" That really rings true for the last bullet point on Dandy Dan's accomplishment page:

Full-time Council Member, who is known to show up in the neighborhood when a problem develops, and stay until it gets fixed."

Well...we have more than our share of problems. Some even facilitated by Dan and his "multi-billion dollar bid" and he is, in fact, still here. And, if he is true to his word, he will be with us for a long time to come...

Much like the undercover beer & bust, perhaps an undercover non-resident can purchase a coffee and we can end this A.S.A.P. For truly only a tourist or a foreigner would pay this amount for a fresh coffee formally brewed by your former cleaner.

Anony 10:38 AM.-No they won't coming streaming in from the outside but that is not the issue. In order to skirt the Oval zoning law,CW Capital/Rose Associates (like TS before) always uses the open only “to residents and their guests” line which is a blatant lie, disingenuous, never enforced by management, and an insult to one's intelligence.

No surprise, but Oval Cafe is NOT checking key cards. Anyone who wants to can buy the food and drinks there. Didn't see any "For Residents and Their Guests" signage, either. I did, however, see a fly on one of the muffins.

Again, yes, all of the East Village is clamoring to get chicken fingers and Danish from the Oval Cafe!

Literally, this is for moms and their toddlers, a place for pre-teens to hangout if their parents don't let them go out to the EV by themselves, nannies, maybe a few contractors who pass through, a snack when you're on the oval and too lazy to go up to your apartment or out to the world. Stop freaking out, it's clearly for residents. Who else is going to go there?

I don't freak out. But to answer your question.... Stuy Town is a public access complex, and during the spring and particularly summer there are a good number of people (from the LES) coming into the complex to make use, primarily, of the sunbathing features of the Oval. These people, as well as others who take advantage of the complex (such as non-resident dog owners who walk their dogs through Stuy Town) have open access to the Oval Cafe. It may not seem like much, but that's not the point of having a daily commercial enterprise inside Stuy Town that does NOT follow the "residents and their guests" guidelines for proper zoning. Then, too, once word gets out (as I'm sure it is more and more) that Stuy Town IS public access, and features park-like surroundings, with nice lawn sunbathing and WITH a cafe--well, that's just more people who are non-residents making use of the complex--and more garbage, more maintenance needs, and just more people who crowd out the actual residents.

Sorry, but checking key cards to buy a cup of coffee seems a little too police state for me. I really hope that never happens.

And I just don't subscribe to the slippery slope rationale that permeates this blog; I don't think the Oval Cafe is going to turn into a maintenance nightmare, let alone a major destination for outsiders.

Then I guess PCV is a semi-public access complex. If you care to take a walk over to 23rd street on any Summer afternoon, you will notice that they close and lock several of the gates. Why? To prevent aforementioned public access by people traveling from the South to use the pool at Asser Levy.

Without getting into the merits/pitfalls of that action with respect to the intended targets, I can tell you it is a real pain in the ass when you come back from Morton Williams, loaded down with groceries on a hot day, only to find that you have to walk blocks out of your way to get back home.

Sometimes they post a guard at the gates to open them for actual residents. Sometimes they don't.

Come to think about it, I'm kind of surprised that they don't promote that pool as an amenity and charge residents a fee that want the gate opened so they can cross the street to swim! Taking notes, Adam?!?

To echo STR's comment on the Cafe, having grown up in the complex and remembering what it was like when we only had a few Ice Cream carts during the summer, we had a significant number of maintenance men who constantly patrolled the entire grounds picking up litter and sweeping away the dirt. And even with that attention to cleanliness and detail, there were still ice cream wrappers and Popsicle sticks all over that needed to be cleaned up. Now, with significantly diminished staff, who's going to clean up after all this pizza, coffee, muffins and whatnot generated by the Cafe ? The garbage was the reason that Met never allowed much more than Good Humor in the Oval. (and yes, I remember the milk and soda machines too.)

My point is that today, the residents barely care about keeping the place clean, not to even mention all the outsiders.

....that's just more people who are non-residents making use of the complex--and more garbage, more maintenance needs, and just more people who crowd out the actual residents. >>

Exactly right. More freeloaders using the grounds and costing money that should be used clean and maintain the buildings that we are paying rent to live in. Rose and CW are too blind/stupid/evil, whatever, to see that this is not going to attract more renters, just more freeloading outsiders who will never rent here.

Sorry, but checking key cards to buy a cup of coffee seems a little too police state for me. I really hope that never happens.

And I just don't subscribe to the slippery slope rationale that permeates this blog"

You need to open your eyes, because the Greenmarket decision placed you firmly at the bottom of that slippery slope. As far as key cards for coffee, that's EXACTLY how accessory use is accomplished. The Cafe is there STRICTLY for use by residents (as defined by law), and by their guests (by the good graces of the landlord). You folks are now officially screwed, unless the TA (LOL!) brings a lawsuit for misuse of the building code.

Unequivocally, they should be required to check resident IDs. If we are required to carry them, they should be required to verify them before providing goods & services to "residents and their guests."

The Oval Cafe is a disgrace. I have heard from a high up disgruntle Rose Associate employee that the cafe cost over $200,000 to build including equipment, and that does not include $30,000 to move the fire hydrant so there could be a larger outdoor area, or the money that they paid to the first operator that Rose & CW brought in and then let go to buy them out. GET RID OF ROSE & CW ONCE AND FOR ALL!

The Oval Cafe is a disgrace. I have heard from a high up disgruntle Rose Associate employee that the cafe cost over $200,000 to build including equipment, and that does not include $30,000 to move the fire hydrant so there could be a larger outdoor area, or the money that they paid to the first operator that Rose & CW brought in and then let go to buy them out. GET RID OF ROSE & CW ONCE AND FOR ALL!>>>

How much did they put into the Garodnik campaign coffers to make him look the other way?

>>Um, we can't get rid of CW--they OWN Stuytown. And they can hire whomever they want to manage it. And yes, they can open a cafe. And no, they don't have to check IDs.<<

If zoning regulations state that a commercial enterprise inside a residential community is only properly zoned if the enterprise is for the exclusive use of tenants (and their guests), then whoever owns Stuy Town would surely have to check IDs, no?

CW doesn't "own" the property, the bondholders "own" the property. CW was appointed as the special servicer.

And yes, they are obligated to restrict the Cafe to residents under the definition of "accessory use" under the zoning law. If that is accomplished by checking key cards, than so be it. Normally, accessory use facilities would fall within the boundaries of a secure building, and there would be no concern about outsiders using the facility. That's the whole reason this manipulation of the loophole is so distasteful, because the landlord knows full well that the accessory use will be used by non residents, and doesn't care. The Oval will never again be a quiet oasis as long as this commercialization is allowed to continue, but if you look at it, Bloomberg has commercialized many of the city park facilities (Shake Shack), so the children that run Rose Associates simply follow Daddy's lead.

Good point made, I patiently await the cafe's rating, this place can't possibly turn a profit if the start up costs are true. It is reasonable to say this cafe is only closer to half the residents. What next the banning of outside beverages etc., much like the movie theaters. Question is picnicking allowed on the Oval?Question, will a bathroom be available, special sign, Residents and Guests/ Customers Only!

Previously you had to be a Oval member to purchase, use the facilities.

Re an Oval Café bathroom, they will just show this map to their “residents and guests” customers and then, as per all the other “amenity” BS, they will say that they are in “compliance” . And you know, with our current politicians from his Highness all the way down the line , nobody cares because the RE industry fix is in.

Hall of Shame Award to CWCapital from Stuy Town And Peter Cooper Village Tenants

Awarded for the Roberts Settlement Massacre, in which many tenants received mid-lease rent increases from hundreds to over a thousand dollars, compelling tenants to examine the need to move out with their families at short notice. Doubly awarded for the Oval Park Massacre, in which healthy trees were cut down and plantings viciously uprooted to make way for an institutionalized look of order.

Thinking of Renting in PCVST?

Read Yelp reviews to find out what it's like living here.

Banned Dog Breeds in Stuy Town

Cute rottweiler. But... looks like there is some difficulty in enforcing the ban on certain dog breeds allowed inside Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village. Somehow pitbulls and pitbull mixes have been registered in STPCV and are allowed to be freely walked about the grounds! Another fail of enforcing the rules around here? You decide!

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Stuyvesant Town Newsreel

Read it and Weep

Current Value of ST/PCV

Was 5.4 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer bought the place.Became 1.7 Billion Dollars when Tishman Speyer left, with their tail between their legs.Current estimate? Over 2 Billion?

Ex-landlord

Rob Speyer

1947 Stuy Town Plaque Honoring Met Life Chairman F.H. Ecker (Removed in 2002 and never seen again)

"... who with the vision of experience and the energy of youth conceived and brought into being this project, and others like it, that families of moderate means might live in health, comfort and dignity in park-like communities and that a pattern might be set of private enterprise productively devoted to public service."

Co-op/Condo Conversions

Non-Eviction Conversion:
Requires commitment from purchasers for 15% of the apartments. Both rent regulated and market rate tenants are given the opportunity to purchase. Rent regulated tenants cannot be evicted because they choose not to buy. However, the owner is not required to offer a lease renewal to market-rate tenants.
Eviction Conversion:
Requires written commitment from 51% of the tenants in occupancy. All tenants are given the opportunity to purchase. Those who choose not to can be evicted. For rent stabilized tenants who choose not to purchase, they can be evicted within 3 years after the plan is declared effective. However, rent stabilized tenants who are disabled or senior citizens are exempt from eviction. Market rate tenants can be evicted at the end of their lease. Less likely conversion tactic. [The TA insists that any plan they support will be non-eviction.]

I am writing on behalf of everyone at Tishman Speyer to express how honored we are to become part of your outstanding community. We are a business with deep roots in New York, a true love of our city and a great respect for the neighborhoods that make it special. We are committed to maintaining the unique character and environment that have made Peter Cooper Village and Stuyvesant Town such a wonderful place to live for so long. We look forward to providing you an extraordinary level of service and attentiveness that will be the source of pride and satisfaction for the entire community.

Neighborhood Recommendations

New to Stuy Town/Peter Cooper Village? Here are some basic recommendations.

Best supermarket: Associated on 14th St. between 1st Ave. and Ave A. The cheapest prices, fantastic weekly sales, very affordable lunches; solid, responsive management. Some of the young female cashiers have attitude to spare, though. May be too far for Peter Cooper residents.

Best deli: A Stuy Town favorite is Lenz's on 20 St. between the 20 St. Loop. The way New York used to be. Be careful of unwanted "pepper" in your food, however. Lenz's has a B grade rating and was temporarily closed down due to an order from the Health Department. Bruno's on First Avenue is more upscale, with a greater selection of food items (higher-priced, too), but was closed down by the Health Department in June.

Best post office: Forget it! The post office on 14th St. is generally a nightmare, with long lines and, now, even shorter hours.

Disappointments:

The Stuy Town Starbucks on First Ave. is not very cozy, and the music in the morning is too loud and uptempo. Gently awaken the souls off to work....

More recommendations to come!

Macular Degeneration Support Group

If you are currently diagnosed with Macular Degeneration, the New York Eye & Ear Infirmary is offering a support group for you. Conveniently located next to the Peter Cooper Village Stuyvesant Town apartment complex, our group offers the opportunity to share stories with other members, listen to expert guest speakers, and learn coping strategies to reduce stress. Our group runs on the first Wednesday of every month and we would enjoy seeing you there.
Please contact Baptiste Nicolas, Social Work Assistant at 212-979-4105 for further information and to see if this group is right for you!