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Wednesday, November 20, 2013

Hunters who violated rules suspended from bow hunting program

A sign warning the public about bow hunting at the entrance to a park in Annandale.

Five hunters
have been suspended from Fairfax County’s archery program to control the deer population following
an incident with a Parklawn resident Nov. 16.

Karen Corbett
was at the playground in Heywood Glen Park near Holmes Run Stream Valley Park
with her three-year-old twins and one-year-old when she was
confronted with a disturbing sight: a group bow hunters pulling three
dead, bleeding deer stacked up on a trailer. It was obvious that the hunters
had just killed the deer in the park.

“My daughter
asked me what was wrong with the deer,” and that was very upsetting, she says. “It
was a conversation I wasn’t prepared to have. I was angry. When something
upsets your kids, it’s like a switch that flips.”

She started yelling at the hunters, telling them they should have covered up the
dead deer and that it was very uncool to have them out in the open like that.

The hunters told
Corbett they had every right to do what they were doing and refused her request
to give their names and show their hunting licenses. Her husband, Jason, then
intervened, and one of the hunters showed his permit.

This is the
first year that Fairfax County is allowing deer hunting in what it calls the “Annandale
cluster,” which includes Holmes Run Stream Valley, Mason District Park, Roundtree
Park, the White
Gardens Park, and the Lillian Carey Park. A group called United Whitetail Archers of North America has
been approved to hunt in the Annandale cluster.

Vicky Monroe,
the wildlife biologist responsible for Fairfax County’s deer management
program, responded to Corbett’s complaint about that incident Nov. 19, telling
her the hunters violated the county’s rules on bow hunting. Those rules require
hunters to completely cover dead deer, be discrete when removing dead deer,
show their IDs when asked, and report any incidents involving members of the
public.

Monroe told
Corbett the five hunters she encountered by the playground are suspended for
the remainder of the 2013-14 deer-hunting season. In addition, all 25 members
of the United Whitetail Archers are prohibited from doing any more hunting
in any of the parks in the Annandale Cluster until the group takes part in an
emergency retraining session.

An email sent sent to people who live near Holmes Run
Stream Valley at the start of the hunting season states: “The group should already be aware of the
children’s play area. It is a requirement that all deer retrieved from the park
be covered with a tarp etc. and done discreetly so that patrons do not have to
see the animal being removed. If you notice anything to the contrary,
please let us know.”

Corbett “was completely justified in being
upset,” said Kristen Sinclair, a senior natural resource specialist in the Fairfax County Park Authority. “We are very sorry this happened. It was a very
unfortunate situation and out of the norm.”

According to
Monroe, this is only the second incidence involving a clash between hunters and
the public since Fairfax County launched its bowhunting program in 2010. The
only other incident involved an improperly covered deer carcass that left about
four inches of a hoof exposed.

Since the
hunting season started Sept. 7, Sinclair said, nearly 40 deer have been killed
by archers in the Annandale Cluster. The season ends Feb. 15.

Sadly it was five jerks that ruined it for everyone. You want to have the luxury of hunting in the County how hard is it to follow the rules? Pretty impressive that the only other incident was an exposed hoof - three whole deer is a lot worse.

Bowhunting is inhumane. If we were still neanderthals. maybe then. I thought we were living in a civilized society. I can be conservative and still be merciful toward pain and suffering. Have you had a pneumothorax lately, or do you just enjoy suffering. I would rather not see you at all in my parks. Thank-you.

As a parent we like to pick our teachable moments. Not have some dummies pick those moments for us. And we don't know their religious beliefs or if they are vegetarians, etc. The point is that this is Fairfax County, not Appalachia. No one should have to deal with this at a playground in the middle of the day.

That would be OUR parks. when did you purchase the county park for your family or yourself. What you enjoy others may as well, not all the same way you do. Public taxes make this and most parks OURS, not yours.

This speaks volume how the community is not informed. She allows her kids to play in a deer infested park which is full of ticks which are causing much pain to most people who are bit. I guess she would rather have lyme disease outbreaks in her community than to teach her kids the purpose of hunting. These hunters are doing this community a favor and when you see them you should thank them.

I'd thank them if they were actually follwoing the rules. It is only a good service if the rules are followed and the public is made to feel safe. I am pretty sure now that they aren't following the rules and it is only a matter of time before someone has a pet or child shot by an arrow. Hunting accidents happen all the time. It is just a matter of time. If you can't follow the basic rules then you certainly aren't bothering to follow the strict rules. These guys have proved it.

As someone who walks my dog through the Holmes Run park almost daily i have come in contact with the hunters on multiple occasions as they enter the park in the morning. They have all been very nice and have answered any questions I had. The only thing that I remember was that some of these deer are donated to hunters for the hungry which i was happy to hear and it is a shame that people cant see the benefit these hunters play not only in controlling the deer population but feeding the hungry.

Have you ever tried dieing with an arrow stuck in you. It usually takes 3 or 4. That is the issue. We are not neandrathals anymore. Not at least the last time I checked. And I do have a problem with these guys hunting near such a densely populated area. Have we lost our minds?

3 or 4 arrows is ridiculous. Stop repeating nonsense. Try finding photos of a deer hit with multiple arrows. Trained hunters are used, not uncaring neandrathals, In our area, they hunt from elevated stands, at close range, and need to pass competency tests all to reduce potential problems. Wait till a friend or family member is inflicted with Lyme disease or injured in a car accident caused by hitting a deer. Lets see how quickly your opinion changes...or would you just ban all cars so no deer are hit by them. All wild animals in urban environments need to be managed for their protection too. Put down the "I care more than you" bong and participate in a reasonable discussion.

It is amazing that we think it is okay for people with weapons to act above the rules. Rules are put in place to keep people safe, these hunters did not follow the rules and they should be punished. This is Fairfax County, not some podunky rural area where anything goes. I assume you have to follow the rules in order to get a permit, these guys broke the rules and give hunters that follow the rules a VERY bad name.

I walk my dogs through there all the time. I am okay with the service the hunters are doing but not comfortable with the no bag limit and such a long hunt season that Fairfax has in place. I don't particularly want to see bloody carcasses being pulled either and I am not a kid. If the rules say the deer should be completely covered then these hunters were clearly at fault. I don't believe that this is only the second time it has happened. I just bet that the community doesn't know the rules or no one took the time to report. Shameful that only one hunter showed his permit.

As one of the hunters that was suspended I would like to apologize to anyone that has been upset by this incident. The deer should have been covered better than they were and it will never happen again. I would also like to point out that no one argued with Karen or refused to show their ID's; This report is not very accurate of the incident that occurred. I feel that we went out of our way to try and appease Karen and Jason and when confronted we exited our vehicle and immediately provided our information and IDs. At the same time Karen was calling us foul names another woman thanked us for helping with the deer population and told Karen to "come look at the damage the deer have caused to my yard". Jason Karen's Husband; told the woman to "shut up and move along". a heated exchange then occurred between Jason, Karen and the woman. At no time did we yell, return names or come within 50 yards of the park. We have taken the punishment handed down from the County and are deeply sorry that the incident occurred and just want to express our sincerest apologies to the community and ensure them that this will not happen again.

So as one of the hunters involved you are saying that your only fault was not covering deer? Is this report inaccurate in that it said - Those rules require hunters to completely cover dead deer, be discrete when removing dead deer, show their IDs when asked, and report any incidents involving members of the public.

Did all five of you provide your permits? Not just the one stated in the article?

As a hunter if I upset a mother with children (which apparently you did by not following the rules) I would IMMEDIATELY show my permit, apologize and move on (and self report). Did the rest of you produce your permits?

I tend to think that the County wouldn't suspend the whole group if that was the case. So I am having a tough time believing your "account" of the matter.

Apologizing but then trying to place fault on the person you wronged is not much of apology and goes more to your guilt. It isn't much of an apology.

If you all produced your permits, then I apologize to you. If you didn't produce your permits then suspended for the season is far too light of a sentence and there is no excuse.

Not passing any blame just making sure all the facts are available. The deer were only partially covered by gear and should have been covered completely with a tarp. We were at fault and that is the rule that was broken during the incident. Everyone had their permits ready but Jason only took one persons info. I asked him if he wanted anymore information from us and he said what we provided was good. There is a zero tolerance policy for any rules that may get broken and we all support the rules and take the punishment that comes with them.

As I sit here and take all emotion aside. If you think it might be wrong, it probably is. Do you think that shooting arrows in a metropolitan area, when you say its ok as long as the public doesnt know, in hopes that perhaps you will never mistaken that movement for a child, or somebody's dog? Why would you want to shoot arrows in a metropolitan area anyway, and put yourself in this position of liability? The whole concept was a mistake in the first place. Persons within the medical community know how painful arrows are, if people can't figure that out, as they die so slowly, even if they are animals. Really?? so nobody cares about that? Can't you find a better way? There are better ways to maintain deer population than this, that would be less dangerous to humans, and less painful to deer.

Accepting because you got caught. The article said the hunters didn't self report the incident. More holes than Swiss cheese. So now there are three rules broken and a whole lot of minimization going on.

So why did you all break the rules? Standard practice but this time you got caught and scared some kids.

Monroe is wrong is stating you did not report the incident then? That you followed that rule? This isn't rocket science. You got lazy. You made some mom crazy angry. You thought she wouldn't report you. Then she did and you got caught. You were supposed to report the incident. You didn't. How many incidents have you not reported in the past?But according to you the deer were covered. Just not completely and that was your only fault. That this mom was angry. I know my wife would have been calling the police on you if my kids had to witness what you put those kids through. One of my kids has had a rough time and seeing something like that would have really been emotionally scarring. I hope that those kids aren't on the spectrum and having nightmares about it because mine would.

I probably would call you every name in the book if you did that to my kid.

How many times have you driven through that playground with exposed carcasses? You are a jerk and you don't even realize it.

NO it is not the only time that an incident has happened like this. A similar incident happened to me a year ago last October, October 2011. a hunter on a saturday morning had 5 arrows sticking out of the deer, that he had just killed hauling it out on a dolly. Infuriating and dangerous. tabolduc@verizon.net

Both sides of this argument sound silly on this thread. this is a proven safe and effective program. I'm curious how you could see deer being carted out on a dolly when the park was'nt part of the program last year and are your children horrified from the sight of a dead deer on the side of the road? As an experienced bow hunter i can assure you that 90+% of deer are taken with 1 shot from an arrow. You should do more research on the subject.

"Well informed resident" - name aside. He never said that he saw a deer from the Annandale cluster or even this park being pulled out. It might not have been a sanctioned hunt either. It could have been a poacher. If you were so well informed you would know that.

Such brazen and disrespectful behavior out of these hunters. The poor children. I hope they didn't see arrows sticking out of the deer like that. Terrifying. I hope others report these infractions to Ms Monroe and that the program is flawed since you have hunters that are above the rules.

Are we barbarians that we bow hunt and make public displays out of it. Why can't birth control be used? Sterilization? Certainly more humane.

I did not have strong opinions on this one way or another. Even after reading the article where it is obvious these five feel that they were above the rules. I have no doubt that they tried to get out of there as fast as they could and most likely did not want to show ID to this outraged mother. The hunters might not have realized that they upset this poor little girl. As a parent, anyone who hurts my child is going to get it from me.The hunter's response is not much of an apology. Did he apologize to Mrs. Corbett? To her daughter? No. Not once. He apologizes to the community - and not much of an apology since he makes excuses for breaking the rules. He goes on to say that they only broke one rule. The county says he and his thugs broke three. I think that I will trust the county on this one.The deer management program is a good idea. Sadly, the county must rely on hunters like these to implement. That makes the program non-sustainable. If the community has to witness the horror, deal with unrepentant hunters and rule breakers, it will not work.These men caused a lot of turmoil. From other posters it is probably not the first time. This time they drove through a play area with kids with three dead deer (did those kids see blood? arrows?). If they can exhibit such poor judgment on this rule what other kind of poor judgment are they exhibiting? Hunting out of boundaries? On the trail?This hunter cannot even admit that they violated three rules. So what other rules are they breaking that they are willing to lie about and not admit?I really do not want people like this in my backyard and on my trails with weapons. I have a dog and would like to keep her safe. This has really been eye opening. The complete lack of responsibility on the part of these hunters, the excuses for something so basic. Next we will find out that they were drinking or hunting on the playground and there will be more excuses.

I read this report and some others that contradict a lot of the information in this report. Fairfax turned down other viable options and went fo the cheapest alternative. In addition, there is no real deer count for each cluster or evaluation of the vegetation in each cluster. So the Annandale cluster is pretty healthy with a relatively small population (10 years ago it was much larger but has stabilized in recent years) but there is no count, nor a limit to what can be hunted in each area. Because the County did not want to do the legwork.

In theory this program could work but you have the hunters in the article implementing it. These guys are not following the rules. They aren't reporting every kill, they aren't covering their kills, they aren't hunting in the designated areas, etc.

Why can't the County do what the city is doing??? Sterilize. Probably much safer for areas with so many people.

I also live in this neighborhood and have seen exposed deer carcasses on several occasions now (not the red truck but a brown one) - the deer was hanging out and bleeding on the street. I ended up not taking my kids to the playground because of it. It was upsetting. I did not know it was against the rules. The deer was left there for a VERY long time.

So these hunters are full of it. They have been rule breaking from the beginning. They should lose their priviledges altogether. This is a very flawed program. These hunters have the ability to hunt for months in the County and not drive hours away and they are lazy and feel they are above the rules.

The truck was even back during the suspended period and complaints were made to the County and nothing was done.

So yes, it is time for the abundantly ignorant who have written above to take responsibility for clearly stating and acknowledging the problem while simultaneously failing to provide a reasonable solution; aside from "catch'em in butterfly nets and neuter them". Yeah, we'll do it on a Saturday with the kids after the trash bash! I'LL HOLD THE DEER'S FEET! I have grown to know those people who can state terrible misjudgments, cry until their demands are met and then refuse to accept responsibility for their own doing. The deer are overpopulated. I feel bad for them and their families. But someone has to replace the predators of deer. The predators were eradicated. The deer are a byproduct of this. Restart my heart the next time one jumps out at 9:30 PM on my way home from the movies with the kids? Fix my car, my neighbors car? No. Repair my grounds? No. Ever had a deer carcass land on your hood going 45 miles an hour? It is one of the most violent events you will ever go through if you live to reflect on it. Lies like multiple arrow kills, etc, never say that again. You lose all credibility. And out of 1,000 hunters, 5 failed to hide the deer from the curious lady? Darn them. So the program doesn't work? Save the earthworms! I harvested 5 deer last year, each by arrow, and never a one went more than 25 yards. 6-8 seconds, that's it. I fed the neighborhood. Even the peta lady up the street enjoyed some. This week, we have three rotting carcasses on my 4 mile road. The average deer collision costs $3,800 in VA. Ok, yes, maybe the deer should be made to fix it! Your right. And those deer crossing signs? Why don't the deer obey those? It's only August and the deer hits are everywhere. It's fine to hope, it is another to deliver. Not a single archery incident since 1959? Thank the Lord, so far, the vast majority of sound, intelligent Fairfax citizens continues to rule. Any opposition to the current deer management program is without valid reason and we all know, you'd dodge any accountability. Arrows firing everywhere? Did you see that on Bugs Bunny last Saturday morning? Yeah, the guys last name was Fudd...Elmer Fudd. Yeah, that was him.

Well said. Also, if you know anyone with limes disease, you understand it is no ordinary bug bite.

Most people that complain about harvesting deer, are doing so with a burger in hand. If you are going to eat meat, much better to eat meat that has enjoyed its life, not being locked up in a cage.lots of entitled pricks in northern va. Instead of showing appreciation, they make accusatory complaints.

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