Sometime between Sara's rise to TV stardom and Charlotte's arrest. Those led to two media blitzes which included the slander as part of the narrative, and Penny and Aggie were fairly forthcoming when questioned about it directly.

Arky wrote:Did Rob & Lynda ever know about Penny dating Duane? And if so, did Rob have any concerns about how "society" would treat his daughter for dating interracially?

Just going to jump in the middle here.

It would make sense to me for Rob not to care about race, but to think gender will be a problem. His generation (what is he, like, forty?) basically had blacks and whites growing up together. The civil rights thing was on the ball before he was even born, most likely, so "mixing breeds" as some older than he might call it wouldn't be as big a deal to him. On the other hand, gay people barely existed until the 80s, so he could still think there's a lot of social objection to that.

(This is all coming from someone who was born in 1990, so I apologize if it turns out I have no idea what I'm talking about and will gladly go back to my coloring books and LEGO sets if told.)

Lia S wrote:Valerie is right.

As usual.

TCampbell wrote:Val has a harem, but it's chiefly structured online at the moment.

Valerie wrote:(This is all coming from someone who was born in 1990, so I apologize if it turns out I have no idea what I'm talking about and will gladly go back to my coloring books and LEGO sets if told.)

Arky wrote:Did Rob & Lynda ever know about Penny dating Duane? And if so, did Rob have any concerns about how "society" would treat his daughter for dating interracially?

Just going to jump in the middle here.

It would make sense to me for Rob not to care about race, but to think gender will be a problem. His generation (what is he, like, forty?) basically had blacks and whites growing up together. The civil rights thing was on the ball before he was even born, most likely, so "mixing breeds" as some older than he might call it wouldn't be as big a deal to him. On the other hand, gay people barely existed until the 80s, so he could still think there's a lot of social objection to that.

(This is all coming from someone who was born in 1990, so I apologize if it turns out I have no idea what I'm talking about and will gladly go back to my coloring books and LEGO sets if told.)

Well, sorta. You're generally right that acceptance of homosexuality has lagged behind acceptance of black equality in America. The Cosby Show comes before Will and Grace. However, generalizations can be unhelpful here: we didn't all get a memo in 1995 saying "gay is now okay." Both interracial relationships and gay relationships can be met with widespread acceptance, subtle prejudice, or outright bigotry. And Rob has seen it all.

mindstalk wrote:I assume that was "barely existed" culturally, at a mainstream awareness level.

Are you sure? I was of the understanding that gays were ephemeral wispy beings that you could only see out of the corner of your eye, and you were never sure if they were truly real until they converted you to the Gay Agenda™ and it was too late.

TCampbell wrote:Sometime between Sara's rise to TV stardom and Charlotte's arrest. Those led to two media blitzes which included the slander as part of the narrative, and Penny and Aggie were fairly forthcoming when questioned about it directly.

TCampbell wrote:Sometime between Sara's rise to TV stardom and Charlotte's arrest. Those led to two media blitzes which included the slander as part of the narrative, and Penny and Aggie were fairly forthcoming when questioned about it directly.

TCampbell wrote:Well, sorta. You're generally right that acceptance of homosexuality has lagged behind acceptance of black equality in America. The Cosby Show comes before Will and Grace. However, generalizations can be unhelpful here: we didn't all get a memo in 1995 saying "gay is now okay." Both interracial relationships and gay relationships can be met with widespread acceptance, subtle prejudice, or outright bigotry. And Rob has seen it all.

So does that mean Rob was concerned about how Penny dating Duane would see her treated by parts of society (and particularly the wealthy conservative country-club set through which Penny's path in life has, up until now, led toward: the Megs of this world, and worse) or that he wasn't?

Valerie: Regardless of the percentage of white Americans who are actively racist in the "thinks non-white people are inferior" sense, one would be naive to think there's not still a very high number on top of that who hold onto a certain amount of fear- whether it's the percentages who poll as believing or being unsure whether President Obama is a Muslim, or the noticeable segregation between white and black neighbourhoods in most cities- and that quiet fear and uncomfortableness is the basis for the subtle, unchallengeable discrimination: choosing not to invite people over, choosing not to vote for them on the committee of this and that, choosing not to patronize their business etc etc, which can be much worse in the long run than someone yelling racist slurs at you in the street. If Rob is worried enough about what the neighbours think to raise this with Penny for being bisexual, then it would have to have at least crossed his mind with Duane, if he knew about it before it ended.

mindstalk wrote:I assume that was "barely existed" culturally, at a mainstream awareness level.

Are you sure? I was of the understanding that gays were ephemeral wispy beings that you could only see out of the corner of your eye, and you were never sure if they were truly real until they converted you to the Gay Agenda™ and it was too late.

Duh. What, you think gays are the same as mere humans?

(No, um, what mindstalk said. Homosexuality has existed as far back as human history goes, apparently, it's just that "homosexual" was practically a bad word until a somewhat recent point.)

Arky: Yeah, it's definitely not an extinct issue. I'm from Louisville, KY, which iiis roughly 2/3 white, 1/3 black with a few other races sprinkled here and there, I think. (Not especially diverse, I guess.) So, despite the fact that I grew up with, went to school with, and made friends with black people (I'm white, btw), I had a crush on a black guy and my mom expressed some concern that if we had a kid, people would call the kid an "oreo" and etc. etc. because it's the south and she's old. (...Okay, she's like 39.) I wonder how many of you I just offended. I am so so so so sorry, I love you, don't be mad.

That said, she didn't get angry, just concerned. When I told her I am open to the ladies, however, she 'sploded. And while I realize that my own personal experiences are not a basis for the rest of the world, this seems to be the basic attitude that I've found, at least where I'm from. So while it's still entirely possible that Rob would have been just as upset about Duane as about Aggie, I would see it as being somewhat less likely.

...*un-hijacks thread*

Lia S wrote:Valerie is right.

As usual.

TCampbell wrote:Val has a harem, but it's chiefly structured online at the moment.

TCampbell wrote:Well, sorta. You're generally right that acceptance of homosexuality has lagged behind acceptance of black equality in America. The Cosby Show comes before Will and Grace. However, generalizations can be unhelpful here: we didn't all get a memo in 1995 saying "gay is now okay." Both interracial relationships and gay relationships can be met with widespread acceptance, subtle prejudice, or outright bigotry. And Rob has seen it all.

So does that mean Rob was concerned about how Penny dating Duane would see her treated by parts of society (and particularly the wealthy conservative country-club set through which Penny's path in life has, up until now, led toward: the Megs of this world, and worse) or that he wasn't?

Valerie wrote:Arky: Yeah, it's definitely not an extinct issue. I'm from Louisville, KY, which iiis roughly 2/3 white, 1/3 black with a few other races sprinkled here and there, I think. (Not especially diverse, I guess.) So, despite the fact that I grew up with, went to school with, and made friends with black people (I'm white, btw), I had a crush on a black guy and my mom expressed some concern that if we had a kid, people would call the kid an "oreo" and etc. etc. because it's the south and she's old. (...Okay, she's like 39.) I wonder how many of you I just offended. I am so so so so sorry, I love you, don't be mad.

That said, she didn't get angry, just concerned. When I told her I am open to the ladies, however, she 'sploded. And while I realize that my own personal experiences are not a basis for the rest of the world, this seems to be the basic attitude that I've found, at least where I'm from. So while it's still entirely possible that Rob would have been just as upset about Duane as about Aggie, I would see it as being somewhat less likely.

...*un-hijacks thread*

Hijacks briefly to wave to fellow Kentuckian. *wave* Also my mom was also 'concerned' when she thought I was interested in a black guy and relieved when she found out we were just friends.

If men had wings and bore black feathers few of them would be clever enough to be crows. - Henry Beecher

As a forty-one-year-old, I can attest that even in a racially diverse Chicago suburban high school in the '80s--so, not Deep South, not pre-segregation--dating across racial lines got you anything from strange looks to outright hostility, depending on the situation and who you were to begin with.

At the same time, yes, gays were almost completely socially invisible in the U.S. in 1980. Hell, Gay Pride parades were still called "Gay Liberation" Parades at that point, simply because the community truly did feel that isolated and persecuted. Also note that a disease outbreak in 1981, named GRID (Gay Related Immune Deficiency), was changed in 1982 to AIDS--and it took Ronald Reagan 5 more years after that to actually let the Surgeon General of the United States talk about it in public--because, you know, it was a "gay" disease.

EDIT: My point is, as a peer of Rob's, I can assure you that his concerns stem heavily from his age--he remembers a time when it was considered okay to sit in silence as "fags" died.

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