Sam, age 6, according to my mother he is in renal failure. Assumptions made, I will call it chronic renal failure.

Her simple question is why is Sam constantly in the water bowl, despite sub-q fluids?

Could this suggest something else along with the crf? Is there anything she should know when dealing with such a young cat?

sugarcatmom

December 29th, 2010, 11:13 PM

Her simple question is why is Sam constantly in the water bowl, despite sub-q fluids?

What amount of fluids does Sam get, and how often? What does he eat?

The thing with renal insufficiency is that the kidneys lose their ability to concentrate urine, so more water is needed to help flush out toxins. The less efficient the kidneys are at doing their job, the more water that's required.

Could this suggest something else along with the crf?

Not necessarily. Does your mom have a copy of the lab work that resulted in a CRF diagnosis?

Is there anything she should know when dealing with such a young cat?

One issue would be whether this was caused by something in the environment, like a toxic substance or virus, etc. Did the vet have any ideas?

Diet is crucial. But not crappy prescription diets, a high quality, meat-based WET food, with an eye on phosphorus levels. Various supplements and medications can be used according to blood work results and symptoms (eg phosphorus binders, potassium supplements, Calcitriol, Pepcid AC, Vit B, appetite stimulants, etc).

growler~GateKeeper

December 30th, 2010, 12:33 AM

Sam, age 6, according to my mother he is in renal failure. Assumptions made, I will call it chronic renal failure.

How was the kidney failure diagnosed? Blood tests and urinalysis?

When was Sam diagnosed? Does your mum have copies of the results?

Is this a known physical deformation from birth? Was something toxic ingested? Did the symptoms come on suddenly or over time? CRF is not usually diagnosed in a cat this young though it does happen, more often the cat is over 10 years.

Her simple question is why is Sam constantly in the water bowl, despite sub-q fluids?

What is the volume of fluids and how often, is it Lactated Ringers Solution or a different fluid formula? When were the last blood & urine tests?

Biologically cats are structured to require drinking very little water as they retain & recycle much of the water/fluid content in their bodies. The cats kidneys are unique in that they concentrate liquid waste and remove the toxins (urea etc) with the least amount of water possible (one reason cat pee smells quite strong, it's highly concentrated), the rest of the water is cleaned so it may be used again elsewhere in the body.

When a cat developes kidney failure the kidneys can no longer clean & reuse as much water as before, this leads to needing more water to flush the toxins from the body via urine output. Losing more necessary water in their urine means there is less moisture cycling though their body, therefore they need to drink to compensate, but already being low they can't possible drink enough to replensh what is being continually lost.

Could this suggest something else along with the crf? Is there anything she should know when dealing with such a young cat?

This excessive drinking even while on fluids is common in kidney cats, depending on how much water is being consumed & how much/often fluids are administered, the fluid schedule may need to be adjusted.

Was the most recent urine test done on a sterile sample and checked for urinary tract infection and or crystals?

What other symptoms is Sam displaying aside from drinking & peeing excessively?

What is Sam eating? Any supplements other than the fluids?

PetPersonsSon

December 30th, 2010, 01:09 PM

Mom says:

I am doing 100cc daily, lactated ringers. Vet wanted 100cc 3x a week.

Sam was a stray kitten found at 5 weeks old.

Weight loss slowly over time (recently), then in water bowl all the time. Brought him to the vet and ruled out diabetes, blood in urine, treated for urinary infection. Specific gravity ok.

2 months later, still in water bowl constantly brought to vet, specific gravity BUN + creatinine up. I do not have the numbers right now, I will get them.
No blood in urine anymore.

Sam is alert/playful and eating. Working on script diet, I would like info on herbs and vitamins or script option to have him live comfortably for another year.

----

Sam is a maine coon. She decided to write all of that down and have me type it out, lol, but I hope that helps.

Thanks for the input. She was somewhat wary of even bothering with the internet but I did this without her asking and she appreciates the input.

growler~GateKeeper

January 3rd, 2011, 12:04 AM

Does the vet know she is doing daily subqs? More fluids than specifically necessary is not always good, as it can flush out too much of the nutrients the body still needs, as well as overworking the kidneys.

A good all-round vitamin for all cats is Vetri-Science Nu-Cat Vitamins (http://www.vetriscience.com/nucat.php), can be purchased through the vet as well as other online sources.

A good holistic immune support supplement that can be purchased from a holistic or homeopath vet or a regular health food store is AangamikŪ DMG (http://www.fslabs.com/vitamins-supplements/aangamik-dmg-300mg-liquid.php) from Food Science Corp. If the human formula purchased from the health food store follow the Maintenance Dose instructions for the "under 2 years", if the animal formula is purchased from a holistic vet follow the weight instructions on the label.

For flushing out the uremic toxins in the body specifically the BUN & Creatinine & restoring the proper balance of beneficial bacteria in the gut there is Azodyl (http://www.vetoquinolusa.com/CoreProducts/CardioNephrologyRenal/Azodyl.html) from Vetoquinol, available from your vet or other online sources.

There are a few more holistic support supplement options available for kidney issues such as Feline Renal Support (http://www.standardprocess.com/display/VeterinaryCatalog.spi?ID=350) by Standard Process, a feline specific formula available only through a holistic or homeopath vet (to my knowledge).

Standard Process also a human formula which could be used instead called Renafood (http://www.standardprocess.com/display/StandardProcessCatalog.spi?ID=136) also support for the renal system, this is availble through holistic or homeopath vets and likely human health food stores and human homeopaths.

I have used with good results the above mentioned supplements.

Canned food is crucial not only for the protein content but also for the high amounts of moisture it contains, dry food is not good for any cat the lack of moisture it provides contributes to chronic dehydration as well as numerous other health issues

What you want is a moderate (not low) protein levels and low phosphorus, the protein is still essential for building and maintaining muscle mass. Vets often promote low protein/low phos as that reduces the workload of the kidneys but when the consumed protein level gets too low the cats body starts using protein from the muscles rather than from new food sources, this leads to muscle wasteing with nothing being replaced. The prescription foods often as lower in protein than I like, as well there is less actual meat protein than the options for you below.

Many more choices listed here http://www.felinecrf.org/canned_food_usa.htm#food_data_tables

With a good diet, some support supplements and proper hydration cats can live happily for years with kidney issues. You can also find more info in the CRF sticky thread here: http://www.pets.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=45017 It's a long thread but there is a link to a summary in the opening post.