Dodrio (BW2 Revamp)(QC 3/3)[GP 2/2]

Moderator

Dodrio has a slightly better niche in this metagame with Jynx being so popular. Thrash is also interesting, though admittedly has a lot of flaws. I want to see what people feel about this new option.Kacaw!

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[Overview]

Has the Speed to outpace non-Scarf Jynx, which is very useful in this metagame

Great Attack and high powered attacks

Has great utility in Pursuit to trap Jynx and Haunter

Mostly helpless against Rock and Steels

Frail and weak to Stealth Rock, so it gets worn down very quickly with residual damage

Early Bird is the preferred ability if using Return and makes Dodrio more reliable when facing Grass- and Bug-types

Tangled Feet is only useful if using Thrash, but staying in while being confused is risky

Golem and Seismitoad are good options to set up Stealth Rock, which guarantees Dodrio OHKO SubBU Braviary, Offensive Armaldo, and 2HKO 172 HP Eelektross with Brave Bird. They also stop Volt Switch spamming

Garbodor and Roselia are good options for Spikers, since 2 layers and Rocks allow Dodrio to 2HKO standard Alomomola with Brave Bird/Thrash

Sawk and Samurott are good options to prevent opposing Stealth Rock users from setting up easily, especially the Rocks and Steels

Musharna is a good teammate that can also provide Heal Bell support to deal with any burns or paralyses

[Other Options]

Baton Pass lets Dodrio escape and still maintain momentum, but is illegal with Brave Bird

Taunt and Roost can allow Dodrio to break through some walls, but it is mediocre at doing so.

Work Up can amp up Dodrio's power, but Dodrio is so frail that it is better off attacking immediately

Substitute can work with Agility and Liechi Berry, but priority is very common in the metagame

Faint Attack and Payback are options over Pursuit, but Pursuit has more utility in trapping Jynx and Haunter

Drill Peck is viable over Brave Bird to avoid recoil, but the loss in power is very drastic

Double Edge is a very viable option over Return, but it is illegal with Brave Bird

Steel Wing is Dodrio's only option to hit Rock-types but is still not enough to defeat them

Accupressure can randomly boost one of Dodrio's stats, but is so unreliable that it isn't worth it

Haze, Endeavor, and Torment, but none of them are very useful

[Checks and Counters]

Rock- and Steel-types such as Golem and Metang wall Dodrio completely, and can usually set up Stealth Rock to limit the number of times Dodrio can switch in

Physically Defensive Mandibuzz can tank even Brave Birds and respond with Foul Play

Alomomola can take a Brave Bird and either attack or Toxic in response. The recoil from Brave Bird will also drain Dodrio's HP quickly

Weezing can take a couple of Brave Birds and respond with Will-O-Wisp or Sludge Bomb

Anything faster can easily take out Dodrio due to its frailness. Electabuzz and Tauros are just two good options to revenge kill it

Faster Electric-types can easily gain momentum against it by using Volt Switch, or else just revenge kill it with their STAB move.

Priority can inflict a lot of damage, but Quick Attack can usually get around most Sucker Punch users

[Overview]

<p>Dodrio's combination of great Attack and Speed, which allows it to outspeed and take out unboosted base 95 Speed Pokemon such as Jynx and Haunter, makes it surprisingly effective in this metagame. It can even trap Jynx and Haunter thanks to Pursuit, giving it some extra utility on a team. Its greatest drawback is the fact that it is helpless against Rock- and Steel-types, which are common Stealth Rock setters in the metagame. Speaking of Stealth Rock, taking 25% damage when switching in makes Dodrio frailer than it already is, as it gets worn down quickly alongside Brave Bird's recoil. Still, it provides a balance between power and Speed, which gives it a niche in comparison to Braviary.</p>

<p>Brave Bird is Dodrio's strongest and most reliable STAB move, with the recoil being a small price to pay as Dodrio is already quite frail. Return is the safest choice for a secondary STAB move, having no drawback and decent power. Pursuit makes use of Dodrio's great power and Speed, striking any Haunter and Jynx without a Choice Scarf before they can move and taking them out whether they switch out or not. Quick Attack provides useful STAB priority to pick off weakened sweepers, and it still has some decent power behind it. Toxic is another viable option for the last slot to catch physical walls such as Alomomola and Misdreavus on the switch in, but being locked into it can be inconvenient.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Early Bird is the preferred ability as it makes Dodrio a better check against Grass-types and Butterfree. Stealth Rock is very useful for Dodrio, as it guarantees that Dodrio can OHKO Bulk Up Braviary and offensive Armaldo and 2HKO 172 HP Eelektross with Brave Bird. Golem and Seismitoad are some great options for setting Stealth Rock as their Ground typing allows them to check most Electric-types and also prevents your opponent from safely using Volt Switch. Spikes is also very beneficial because two layers alongside Stealth Rock allows Dodrio to 2HKO standard Alomomola with Brave Bird. Garbodor and Roselia are good teammates to set up Spikes, and both can set up Toxic Spikes as an added bonus. As Dodrio takes a lot of damage from Brave Bird recoil and Stealth Rock, having ways to keep Stealth Rock off the field is very beneficial. Sawk and Samurott are great offensive options to prevent most Stealth Rock users from setting up, and they also threaten the Rock- and Steel-types that Dodrio cannot easily damage. Cleric support from Musharna or Misdreavus is very useful because Dodrio is utterly crippled by paralysis and burns.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Thrash is also a viable STAB move as it has much more power behind it than Return. One must understand that being locked into the move is a problem however, as there are a few types that can easily switch into Thrash and set up, and the confusion provides only a small benefit when combined with Tangled Feet. You rarely want to keep Dodrio in after Thrash ends, as the evasion boost doesn't prevent it from hitting itself in confusion, which can be fatal due to its high Attack. A stallbreaker set is a viable option, using Taunt and Roost to break through some walls. Unfortunately, such a set is at best mediocre at accomplishing this job, with its low bulk making even weak attacks a problem. Baton Pass allows Dodrio to escape battle while maintaining momentum, but it is illegal with Brave Bird. Work Up is an option to increase Dodrio's offensive power, but Dodrio is generally too frail to set up and would prefer to simply attack. Substitute can work alongside Agility and Liechi Berry, but priority is quite common in the metagame. Faint Attack and Payback are options over Pursuit, but they lack its utility. Drill Peck is a viable option over Brave Bird if you don't like recoil, but the loss in power is very drastic. Double-Edge is a viable option over Return and Thrash, but it is illegal alongside Brave Bird. Steel Wing is Dodrio's only option to hit Rock-types, but it is rather weak and fails to defeat them before they defeat Dodrio. Acupressure can provide a random boost to one of Dodrio's stats, but it is so unreliable that it isn't worth the moveslot. Haze, Endeavor, and Torment are interesting support moves, but Dodrio cannot make use of them with its frailty and lack of resistances.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon, such as Regirock and Metang, are almost always perfect counters to Dodrio, and they can even set up Stealth Rock to limit the number of times it can switch in. Physically defensive Mandibuzz can tank repeated Brave Birds and respond with Foul Play. Alomomola can take a Brave Bird and retaliate with Toxic or its Water STAB in response; meanwhile, it can stall with Protect and pivot out to a Flying-type resistance. Weezing can take a couple of Brave Birds and respond with Will-O-Wisp or Sludge Bomb. Almost everything faster than Dodrio can revenge kill it. Faster Electric-types are notable choices because they can easily use Volt Switch to either OHKO Dodrio or gain momentum if it switches out. Because Dodrio is so frail, priority can inflict a huge amount of damage on it. It is important to note that Quick Attack variants can get around Sucker Punch users.</p>

i don't think dodrio really needs a stallbreaker set because way too easy to wall. you're not gonna be doing much to the opponent even after you taunt them. it should be attacking off the bat with the choice sets

I would like some attention to be drawn to Dodrio's Stallbreaker set. Personally I don't think it should be a main set, but rather an OO mention. It's not really a stallbreaker if it's not actually breaking stall. (since it's so easy to wall due to its limited coverage) I mean Taunt is something that separates Dodrio from other Flying-type Pokemon such as Braviary, but it's not really good at it and I don't think that reason is enough for it to stay. Opinions?

Social Media Chief

I mean since we're not allowed to stamp or reject for 24 hours, I can't say QC Reject 1/3 since the stallbreaker doesn't actually break much stall, but I will say that the stallbreaker is "mediocre" and "has some problems with common members of stall teams".

[Overview]
Instead of decent power, great Attack sounds better. (110 Atk is pretty damn good) Add on: "but lacks coverage" onto that point as well. Since Taunt isn't a set anymore you can just leave it at Pursuit. Add on that it traps Haunter and Jynx.

[Additional Comments]
I would replace Scolipede mention with Garbodor instead, as it has better type synergy with Dodrio than Scoli.

[Other Options]
Make this tag look the same way as I have it above. Add Taunt + Roost set in here.

[Checks and Counters]
Definitely add a mention of other fast Electric-type Pokemon (Scarf Rotom-S, Zebstrika, Electrode) and mention how they can easily gain switch momentum against Dodrio with Volt Switch

Moderator

Super Moderator

Wait, are we suggesting Thrash/Tangled Feet? I mean, I've used it before, and Thrash hits super hard. However, locking into a Normal-type move isn't a very good idea, and the odds of dodging an attack with Tangled Feet are lower than the odds of hitting yourself in confusion. Sounds like an OO mention would be best, to me, but if everyone else feels strongly about it, I suppose we can keep it. I just don't see much of any reason to use it.

Also, KACAW! isn't really a very good name for it. Maybe KACAW! (Choice Band) or just Choice Band? I'll leave it up to you, but if you are adamant about it, at least add (Choice Band) to it.

The last sentence of the Overview, I'd also mention Swellow alongside Braviary, as Dodrio competes with both for a slot on a team.

In AC where you mention Spikes, Choice Band Brave Bird can only 2HKO Alomomola after hazard damage, not OHKO.

Also in the AC, I probably wouldn't use Alomomola with Dodrio. It's really hard to pass it a Wish, especially when Alomomola attracts Electric-types that can also easily take out Dodrio. Wish support is great for any Pokemon, but if it's nearly impossible to pass a Wish to it, it's not worth mentioning. Cleric support, on the other hand, is fine. It's a lot easier to pull off a Heal Bell for Dodrio than a Wish pass.

In Checks and Counters, the fact that Dodrio can 2HKO Alomomola isn't really that relevant. It can switch in, take a Brave Bird, Protect, and pivot out into a Flying resist. I would make note of this.

This looks pretty good overall, but I don't want to stamp this until we resolve the Thrash + Tangled Feet issue. Let me know how you feel about this, and implement the rest so that I can stamp!

NU Co-Leader

Wait, are we suggesting Thrash/Tangled Feet? I mean, I've used it before, and Thrash hits super hard. However, locking into a Normal-type move isn't a very good idea, and the odds of dodging an attack with Tangled Feet are lower than the odds of hitting yourself in confusion. Sounds like an OO mention would be best, to me, but if everyone else feels strongly about it, I suppose we can keep it. I just don't see much of any reason to use it.

...

This looks pretty good overall, but I don't want to stamp this until we resolve the Thrash + Tangled Feet issue. Let me know how you feel about this, and implement the rest so that I can stamp!

Click to expand...

Adding onto this, I get that Thrash is just the stronger option in lieu of Return, since Dodrio doesn't get Double-Edge... but I'm not too sure if Thrash is worth using here, though. Does the extra power actually net any KOes? Is it worth locking yourself into Normal-type coverage for 2-3 turns? Also, if Thrash is kept, I wouldn't necessarily say that Tangled Feet is the preferred option. I'd say it's a plausible one, but Early Bird seems far more useful the majority of the time.

Moderator

Personally I don't care for either Thrash and Tangled Feet in any combination. However, I decided to get some more thoughts on it as the higher power only really benefits against Alomomola if I'm not mistaken. If it is decided that it is removed, I'm make a mention of it in OO since it looks really tempting for newer players. Everything else is implemented!

I think @tennisace or someone else on IRC requested I name it KACAW, I dgaf what we call it. :)

NU Co-Leader

Personally I don't care for either Thrash and Tangled Feet in any combination. However, I decided to get some more thoughts on it as the higher power only really benefits against Alomomola if I'm not mistaken. If it is decided that it is removed, I'm make a mention of it in OO since it looks really tempting for newer players. Everything else is implemented!

I think @tennisace or someone else on IRC requested I name it KACAW, I dgaf what we call it. :)

Click to expand...

A Dodrio set was actually named Kacaw by resident bird-lover @PttP on the previous analysis (though tennis may have requested that too). I have no preference on whether or not we keep the name for this set; it's cute, though.

Re: Thrash + Tangled Feet - I would remove it from the main set and put it in OO.

Super Moderator

[Additional Comments]
You still have mentions of Thrash in here. The first sentence indirectly references Thrash as well so fix that sentence by just saying it allows it to check Grass-types better. The only Bug-type with access to a sleeping move that actually uses it (Specs Mothim only Mothim :]) is Butterfree, and even then it is not that relevant. You can change "Bug-type" to just Butterfree if you want.

Moderator

GP check. Good job on writing this.
Additions in Blue
Subtractions in Red
Comments in Purple

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[Overview]

<p>Dodrio's combination of great Attack and Speed, which allows it to outspeed and take out unboosted base 95 Speed Pokemon such as Jynx and Haunter, makes it surprisingly effective in this metagame. It can even trap Jynx and Haunter thanks to Pursuit, giving it some extra utility on a team. Its greatest drawback is the fact that it is helpless against Rock- and Steel-types, which are common Stealth Rock setters in the metagame. Speaking of Stealth Rock, taking 25% damage on switching in makes itsDodrio frailer than it already is as it gets worn down quickly alongside Brave Bird's recoil. Still, it provides a balance between power and Speed (add comma) which gives it a niche compared to Braviary.</p>

<p>Brave Bird is Dodrio's strongest and most reliable STAB move, with the recoil being a small price to pay as Dodrio is already quite frail. Return is the safest choice for a secondary STAB move, having no drawback and decent power. Pursuit makes use of Dodrio's great power and Speed, outspeedingstriking(or a word you prefer) any Haunter and Jynx without a Choice Scarf before they can move and taking them out whether they switch out or not. Quick Attack provides useful STAB priority to pick off weakened sweepers, and it still has some decent power behind it. Toxic is another viable option for the last slot to catch physical walls such as Alomomola and Misdreavus on the switch in, though being locked into it can be inconvenient.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Early Bird is the preferred ability, (remove comma)andas it makes Dodrio a better check against Grass-types and Butterfree. Stealth Rock is very useful for Dodrio, as they guarantee that itit guarantees that Dodrio can OHKO Bulk Up Braviary and offensive Armaldo and 2HKO 172 HP Eelektross with Brave Bird. Golem and Seismitoad are some great options for setting Stealth Rock as their Ground-typingGround typing allows them to check most Electric-types and also prevents your opponent from safely using Volt Switch and can check most Electric-types. Spikes areis also very beneficial because two layers alongside Stealth Rock can allowallows Dodrio to 2HKO standard Alomomola with Brave Bird. Garbodor and Roselia are good teammates to set up Spikes, and both can set up Toxic Spikes as an extraadded bonus. As Dodrio can rack uptakes a lot of damage from Brave Bird recoil and Stealth Rock, having ways to keep Stealth Rock off the field is very beneficial. Sawk and Samurott are great offensive options to prevent most Stealth Rock users from setting up, and they also threaten the Rock- and Steel-types that Dodrio cannot easily damage. Cleric support from Musharna or Misdreavus is very useful because Dodrio is utterly crippled by paralysesparalysis and burns.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Thrash is also a viable STAB move sinceas it has much more power behind it than Return. One must understand that being forcedlocked into the move is a problem however, as there are a few types that can easily switch into Thrash and set up, whileand the confusion provides only a small benefit when combined with Tangled Feet. You rarely want to staykeep Dodrio in after Thrash ends, as the evasion chanceboost doesn't prevent Dodrioit from hitting itself in confusion, which can be fatal due to it'sits high Attack. A Stallbreakerstallbreaker set is a viable option, using Taunt and Roost to break through some walls. Unfortunately, such a set is at best mediocre at accomplishing this job with its low bulk making even weak attacks a problem. Baton Pass allows Dodrio to escape battle while maintaining momentum, but it is illegal with Brave Bird. Work Up is an option to increase Dodrio's offensive power, but Dodrio is generally too frail to set up and would prefer to simply attack. Substitute can work alongside Agility and Liechi Berry, but priority is quite common in the metagame. Faint Attack and Payback are options over Pursuit, but they lack Pursuit'sits utility. Drill Peck is a viable option over Brave Bird if you don't like recoil, but the loss in power is very drastic. Double-Edge is a viable option over Return and Thrash, but it is illegal alongside Brave Bird. Steel Wing is Dodrio's only option to hit Rock-types, but it is rather weak and fails to defeat them before they defeat Dodrio. Acupressure can provide a random boost to one of Dodrio's stats, but it is so unreliable that it isn't worth the moveslot. Haze, Endeavor, and Torment are some interesting support moves, but Dodrio cannot make use of them with its frailty and lack of resistances.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon, such as Regirock and Metang, are almost always perfect counters to Dodrio, and they can even set up Stealth Rock to limit the number of times Dodrioit can switch in. Physically Defensivedefensive Mandibuzz can tank repeated Brave Birds and respond with Foul Play. Alomomola can take a Brave Bird and retaliate with Toxic or its Water STAB in response; meanwhile (add comma) it can stall with Protect and pivot out to a Flying-type resistresistance. Weezing can take a couple of Brave Birds and respond with Will-O-Wisp or Sludge Bomb. Almost everything faster than Dodrio can revenge kill it. Faster Electric-types are notable choices because they can easily use Volt Switch to either OHKO Dodrio or gain momentum if it switches out. SinceBecause Dodrio is so frail, priority can inflict a huge amount of damage to this flightless birdon it. It is important to note that Quick Attack variants can get around Sucker Punch users.</p>

<p>Dodrio's combination of great Attack and Speed, which allows it to outspeed and take out unboosted base 95 Speed Pokemon such as Jynx and Haunter, makes it surprisingly effective in this metagame. It can even trap Jynx and Haunter thanks to Pursuit, giving it some extra utility on a team. Its greatest drawback is the fact that it is helpless against Rock- and Steel-types, which are common Stealth Rock setters in the metagame. Speaking of Stealth Rock, taking 25% damage owhen switching in makes Dodrio frailer than it already is, (AC) as it gets worn down quickly alongside Brave Bird's recoil. Still, it provides a balance between power and Speed, which gives it a niche in comparedison to Braviary.</p>

<p>Brave Bird is Dodrio's strongest and most reliable STAB move, with the recoil being a small price to pay as Dodrio is already quite frail. Return is the safest choice for a secondary STAB move, having no drawback and decent power. Pursuit makes use of Dodrio's great power and Speed, striking any Haunter and Jynx without a Choice Scarf before they can move and taking them out whether they switch out or not. Quick Attack provides useful STAB priority to pick off weakened sweepers, and it still has some decent power behind it. Toxic is another viable option for the last slot to catch physical walls such as Alomomola and Misdreavus on the switch in, buthough being locked into it can be inconvenient.</p>

[ADDITIONAL COMMENTS]

<p>Early Bird is the preferred ability as it makes Dodrio a better check against Grass-types and Butterfree. Stealth Rock is very useful for Dodrio, as it guarantees that Dodrio can OHKO Bulk Up Braviary and offensive Armaldo and 2HKO 172 HP Eelektross with Brave Bird. Golem and Seismitoad are some great options for setting Stealth Rock as their Ground typing allows them to check most Electric-types and also prevents your opponent from safely using Volt Switch. Spikes is also very beneficial because two layers alongside Stealth Rock allows Dodrio to 2HKO standard Alomomola with Brave Bird. Garbodor and Roselia are good teammates to set up Spikes, and both can set up Toxic Spikes as an added bonus. As Dodrio takes a lot of damage from Brave Bird recoil and Stealth Rock, having ways to keep Stealth Rock off the field is very beneficial. Sawk and Samurott are great offensive options to prevent most Stealth Rock users from setting up, and they also threaten the Rock- and Steel-types that Dodrio cannot easily damage. Cleric support from Musharna or Misdreavus is very useful because Dodrio is utterly crippled by paralysis and burns.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Thrash is also a viable STAB move as it has much more power behind it than Return. One must understand that being locked into the move is a problem however, as there are a few types that can easily switch into Thrash and set up, and the confusion provides only a small benefit when combined with Tangled Feet. You rarely want to keep Dodrio in after Thrash ends, as the evasion boost doesn't prevent it from hitting itself in confusion, which can be fatal due to its high Attack. A stallbreaker set is a viable option, using Taunt and Roost to break through some walls. Unfortunately, such a set is at best mediocre at accomplishing this job, (AC) with its low bulk making even weak attacks a problem. Baton Pass allows Dodrio to escape battle while maintaining momentum, but it is illegal with Brave Bird. Work Up is an option to increase Dodrio's offensive power, but Dodrio is generally too frail to set up and would prefer to simply attack. Substitute can work alongside Agility and Liechi Berry, but priority is quite common in the metagame. Faint Attack and Payback are options over Pursuit, but they lack its utility. Drill Peck is a viable option over Brave Bird if you don't like recoil, but the loss in power is very drastic. Double-Edge is a viable option over Return and Thrash, but it is illegal alongside Brave Bird. Steel Wing is Dodrio's only option to hit Rock-types, but it is rather weak and fails to defeat them before they defeat Dodrio. Acupressure can provide a random boost to one of Dodrio's stats, but it is so unreliable that it isn't worth the moveslot. Haze, Endeavor, and Torment are interesting support moves, but Dodrio cannot make use of them with its frailty and lack of resistances.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>Rock- and Steel-type Pokemon, such as Regirock and Metang, are almost always perfect counters to Dodrio, and they can even set up Stealth Rock to limit the number of times it can switch in. Physically defensive Mandibuzz can tank repeated Brave Birds and respond with Foul Play. Alomomola can take a Brave Bird and retaliate with Toxic or its Water STAB in response; meanwhile, it can stall with Protect and pivot out to a Flying-type resistance. Weezing can take a couple of Brave Birds and respond with Will-O-Wisp or Sludge Bomb. Almost everything faster than Dodrio can revenge kill it. Faster Electric-types are notable choices because they can easily use Volt Switch to either OHKO Dodrio or gain momentum if it switches out. Because Dodrio is so frail, priority can inflict a huge amount of damage on it. It is important to note that Quick Attack variants can get around Sucker Punch users.</p>