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Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

Plot events?
So Naruto having the Kyuubi isn't a plot event? Sasuke's Mangekyo isn't the only Mangekyo that made the user blind, it also happened to Madara and Itachi, meaning its something perfectly natural.
Using the plot as an excuse isn't gonna work, the issue was that someone said Sasuke earned his power ups, to which I answered that he didn't earn EMS just to name the most recent example and, without it, he would be blind

And I can remember Sasuke being as protected by the plots as Naruto is, without having an almighty Bijuu in his gut might I add

The discussion was specifically about Naruto and Sasuke's natural powers so I don't see why Sasuke shouldn't have his original MS eyes. If you are going to hold his current eye implants against him by saying that he should be blind, then I can argue that Naruto should be dead and never would have even gained sage mode because the Kyuubi saved him from death like a billion times. If we are discussing their natural powers, all the other plot stuff is basically irrelevant otherwise its pointless. When it comes down to it, its basically MS Sasuke vs. Sage mode Naruto.

We all know certain characters are protected by plot but there are different ways in doing so. Sasuke has been defeated, critically injured, or even killed already if not for interference from other characters. Even though we know he isn't going to be killed, he is still shown to be as vulnerable as other ninja. He gets stabbed by Bee and needed be healed by Konan. He ran low on chakra during the summit battle and needed Zetsu to replenish it along with a Tobi save later on. Kabuto smacks him with that sound ball thing and he needed to saved by Itachi. Sasuke, even though he is protected by plot, is still portrayed as mortal as any other ninja and is believable that he can potentially be killed. On the other hand, Naruto simply needs to invoke the Kyuubi. Whatever the situation or danger is, the Kyuubi can and will fix it. This free get-out-of-death card is so overused that he might as well be invincible. I can't remember the last time I genuinely thought Naruto is in trouble. At this point, Madara can drop a hundred meteors on him or even cut off his head, and he'll still be ok by simply invoking the Kyuubi.

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

I don't know. The fact that Kishi has pretty much ignored them is the best part I think. Every time Kishi goes to focus on something or someone, he just makes them worst: Pain went from being the awesome leader of Akatsuki to a wussy puppet, Tobi went from a mysterious badass to sadface Obito, the Bijuus went from being forces of natures to misunderstood animals needing love, etc. Just imagine the horrors that would come to the Byakugan and Hyuuga clan from some of Kishi's "focus".

I wish I can like this a million times. Having characters cry about how much they need Naruto every time they are shown doesn't help either. Everybody has become so irrelevant and dependent on Naruto now that they are just witnesses to his story. They are no better than nameless fodders.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by chilibun

The discussion was specifically about Naruto and Sasuke's natural powers so I don't see why Sasuke shouldn't have his original MS eyes. If you are going to hold his current eye implants against him by saying that he should be blind, then I can argue that Naruto should be dead and never would have even gained sage mode because the Kyuubi saved him from death like a billion times. If we are discussing their natural powers, all the other plot stuff is basically irrelevant otherwise its pointless. When it comes down to it, its basically MS Sasuke vs. Sage mode Naruto.

We all know certain characters are protected by plot but there are different ways in doing so. Sasuke has been defeated, critically injured, or even killed already if not for interference from other characters. Even though we know he isn't going to be killed, he is still shown to be as vulnerable as other ninja. He gets stabbed by Bee and needed be healed by Konan. He ran low on chakra during the summit battle and needed Zetsu to replenish it along with a Tobi save later on. Kabuto smacks him with that sound ball thing and he needed to saved by Itachi. Sasuke, even though he is protected by plot, is still portrayed as mortal as any other ninja and is believable that he can potentially be killed. On the other hand, Naruto simply needs to invoke the Kyuubi. Whatever the situation or danger is, the Kyuubi can and will fix it. This free get-out-of-death card is so overused that he might as well be invincible. I can't remember the last time I genuinely thought Naruto is in trouble. At this point, Madara can drop a hundred meteors on him or even cut off his head, and he'll still be ok by simply invoking the Kyuubi.

Actually the debate was over who has more "earned" power ups between Sasuke and Naruto, but okay, let's talk about "natural powers":
what does needs to be saved has to do on earning one's powers?
Everytime this issue ( natural powers or earned powers ) is addressed, Naruto bashers always says 2 things:
-Naruto has Kyuubi which is OP
-Naruto gets saved by Kyuubi all the times

Which has nothing do to on powers, since the discussion doesn't revolve on who's more OP between Kyuubi and the Sharingan

Same thing with Sasuke's blindness, did I said the Sharingan isn't his? No, simply put, if we go by his "earned powers" right now he would be blind since he wouldn't have Itachi's eyes.

Also lol at Sasuke being mortal, maybe you forget the ending of the Deidara fight, where, while being without chakra, he summoned Manda,genjutsu'd it and used Oro's transfer jutsu in the span on less of a second, with Manda not being obliterated by a jutsu that created an explosion 10 km wide.
Talking about Naruto's saving, isn't the same thing what Sasuke experiences?
Naruto is saved by Kyuubi, Sasuke is saved by countless others, what exactly makes Sasuke's human or better than Naruto if he has the same plot shield? Because he's saved by countless meat shields?

Naruto right now is facing 3 enemies that can kill him:
Madara, Obito and Juubi.
So no, he's not invincible. And even if he was, its still him plus the Kyuubi, the strongest Bijuu in existence.
What is more believable as "invincible", a Kage level ninja with the strongest Bijuu in his gut fighting together or someone with magic eyes? Madara not-withstanding, since he is basically a Rikudou right now with infinite chakra and an immortal body.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by Fazzzy

One kage is nothing in comparison to the Shinobi Alliance.

dude one kage dies we get many panels worth of emo drama...i think if anyone will die it will be someone very important...otherwise the shinobi alliance unnamed soldiers will die like they have been dying throughout the war...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Nah. Obito would redeemed himself. He would going to give his other MS to kakashi while his rinnegan would going to bring back all the ninjas they killed back to life.

It means that obito would blame himself for killing kushina and his sensei, with that he'll sacrifice his life for bringing the 40 thousands ninjas back to life. And he'll going to pass his will to naruto and by giving kakashi his other MS/intangible jutsu to protect naruto, their sensei's son.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by marshall313

Nah. Obito would redeemed himself. He would going to give his other MS to kakashi while his rinnegan would going to bring back all the ninjas they killed back to life.

It means that obito would blame himself for killing kushina and his sensei, with that he'll sacrifice his life for bringing the 40 thousands ninjas back to life. And he'll going to pass his will to naruto and by giving kakashi his other MS/intangible jutsu to protect naruto, their sensei's son.

and thus the 3 shinobi war will be won with 0 casualties...all coz of of one thing "talk no jutsu"

before than he will trap madara into the other dimension so that he can redeem himself to eternity

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

I'm at a loss people, so now I'm of the mind to just enjoy it for what it is and go on about my business when it's done. Much like taking a crap; the actual mechanics of it are hazy at best, but it's not like you're going to think too deeply on the act itself unless of course you gleamed something to alert you, but other than that, you go on about your affairs. Not saying Naruto is in the crapper, but I'm just reading accepting whatever Kishi does, much like Kite and his ET Zombies that are now training for the 'next' invasion.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by jalix

TBH I sometimes think Sasuke gets an unfair shake when his power's looked at. Off topic, but think about the Deidara fight. He got stronger by training and working with Orochimaru. The snakes, curse-seal, etc. I think those were all good parts to teh story. Also, I think you could clearly tell how much stronger he was because Pt. 1 Sasuke would have lost to Deidara IMO. But I feel like since the Itachi fight, Naruto took a different turn - it's as if Shippuden ended, and a third part began. Not saying it's better, definitely not saying it's worse. It's just different as it reaches a climax. Funny how Naruto was called supid, because I think since the Itachi encounter, it's Sasuke who's character started getting real stupid.

sometimes? He always gets unfair treatment by people whenever his powers are looked at. People will ignore anything that makes Sasuke look good and focus on the negatives or make up their own, while giving Naruto a free pass. It's what annoys me the most - it's like saying Naruto's a retard or idiot. Sasuke has trained, and was acknowledged as a genius ever since he was a kid, but that's ignored. I guess people hate on Sasuke because they're jealous, as much as I hate to say it, that he's better than Naruto.

But I actually think Sasuke's "stupidity" started after he met Tobi. That's when he became obsessed with revenge, and then Susano'o, like Kyuubi with Naruto, took away most necessity from strategy.

And now, you have the Kyuubi strategizing and leading. At the very least, I hope that it's Naruto who leads the Alliance as he's hyped to be the messiah and savior. Seriously would love to see Naruto leading and strategizing, using his own team to help him. Or at least, He, Kakashi, and Shikamaru combining their brains together to come up with a good plan. I still say Naruto's prankster ways and unorthodox style give him an advantage over Madara in a way.

Originally Posted by Invader

It's statements like this that cause folks like me to shake their heads and pretty much disregard the substance and content of the comment. Naruto never trains?

1. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to run up a tree.
2. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to walk on water.
3. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to perform the summon technique.
4. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to perform Rasengan.
5. Big long multi-YEAR training with Jiraya.
6. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to access Fuuton ability.
7. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to perform Fuuton Rasengan.
8. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to master Sage Mode.
9. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to do "frog-fu".
10. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto working with Bee to defeat the Kyuubi.
11. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to use the chakra cloak arms.
12. Big long multi-chapter training sequence of Naruto learning how to form a Bijju-dama.

Naruto "never trains"? Sigh. I'd say almost 75% of this entire MANGA is comprised of chapters were Naruto is either directly training, or in the process of training while other people are doing stuff. How you can say he never trains is quite beyond me. I can only ascribe such a blatantly incorrect and amazingly inaccurate statement to the fact that you have either (A) never actually read this manga or (B) you are willfully and deliberately ignoring the bulk of the manga's content so as to satisfy your own personal bias about Naruto as a character. Your statement is absurd on its face.

Sweet. Do me a favor and prove why Naruto's not a retard or stupid. I have faith in you. Too lazy to do it myself.

Though I'm sure they were talking about him training in regards to Kyuubi's chakra. If not, then they haven't read the manga since Naruto's training takes up most of the manga, whether for rasengan, Sage Mode, or even mastery over stolen Kyuubi's chakra.

Originally Posted by Uchiha_Blood

Actually the debate was over who has more "earned" power ups between Sasuke and Naruto, but okay, let's talk about "natural powers":
what does needs to be saved has to do on earning one's powers?

Both have earned nearly all of their powerups. Regardless of what anyone says, I consider Naruto having have earned his Sage Mode powerup, and not due to his body. Although I don't understand why Kishi doesn't use this to make Naruto a bit calmer or smarter, since Naruto has practiced staying still to gather chakra. You can't deny Sasuke's earned his power too, other than EMS.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by M3J

Sweet. Do me a favor and prove why Naruto's not a retard or stupid.

not counter arguing that naruto is a retard or not...imo sasuke is the biggest retard of the story...not just coz of power levels and other things...that guy's does not have his own mentality left...its like if someone tells him its day he believes it...then someone else comes and say its night he believes that too...i have respect for naruto's character coz even though he is a retard still he has a will and personality of his own no matter how retarded it is...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Okay, naruto got the army that he wanted at his side and now what?.. Talk not jutsu and the power of love??.. As much as would like the konoha 12 to have alittle spot light what can they do against these. 3

living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by dex

not counter arguing that naruto is a retard or not...imo sasuke is the biggest retard of the story...not just coz of power levels and other things...that guy's does not have his own mentality left...its like if someone tells him its day he believes it...then someone else comes and say its night he believes that too...i have respect for naruto's character coz even though he is a retard still he has a will and personality of his own no matter how retarded it is...

Naruto ISN'T an idiot though. His stupidity came from his environment. We have seen he can be smart and observant when needed, but he's held back by the author. And no, Sasuke doesn't do anything on anyone's orders like that. He always planned to turn on Orochimaru, and he asked Danzou whether what Tobi said was true first, before killing him. Once again, people oversimplify everything to support what they think.

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by M3J

Naruto ISN'T an idiot though. His stupidity came from his environment. We have seen he can be smart and observant when needed, but he's held back by the author. And no, Sasuke doesn't do anything on anyone's orders like that. He always planned to turn on Orochimaru, and he asked Danzou whether what Tobi said was true first, before killing him. Once again, people oversimplify everything to support what they think.

naruto can be smart sometime and sasuke does use his brain sometimes...still that guy has been manipulated by others all his life...imo many people had life full of tragedies...still why does this boyhave to act so special...i just dont get it...he is too arrogant and cocky to even understand that there are some people who actually understand his worthless worth...just my personal opinion...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

One of the things. That people think naruto isn't so smart besides his mouth, it's that kage bushings not jutsu, 1000 different forms of rasengan and instead of using his wind style with a new techniques but not he only used it on. Rasengan.. He needs more jutsu because the kyuubi power can be gone anytime..

living in the darkness and now with a new light, i will raise to a new beginning...

Re: Naruto 611 Discussion / 612 Prediction

Originally Posted by EMS

One of the things. That people think naruto isn't so smart besides his mouth, it's that kage bushings not jutsu, 1000 different forms of rasengan and instead of using his wind style with a new techniques but not he only used it on. Rasengan.. He needs more jutsu because the kyuubi power can be gone anytime..

why learn weak jutsus when he has A plus rank in the rasengan and KB also looks at others kakashi has what 1000 jutsus but only reliesd on a couple same with sasuke after getting the Ms he only uses sussanno and ameratsu. it is something people dont get heroes in this mangas dont get much moves. and naruto has sage mode so he does not have to worry about the kyuubi. what are weak c or b wind jutsus gonna help vs his current opponents. just a waste.