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I have seen some utter nonsense posted by you but this takes the cake. YOUR REAL POINT IS that if someone has more than you then IT CAN'T BE YOUR FAULT and it must be theirs. So those that have accumulated more than you SHOULD GIVE YOU SOME instead of you ACCUMULATING YOUR OWN. You think that if someone has a bigger pie than you they should give you some of their pie. I say MAKE YOUR OWN PIE. NOBODY IS STOPPING YOU BUT YOURSELF. Your logic is the union logic that the worst no good lousy worker should be paid the same as the best most producitve worker. That is nonsense and that also goes to owners and employers.

Only today after training dogs, a friend of mine and I tried a new restraurant and had a late breakfast. THE FOOD WAS TERRIBLE. Neither of us will be back. WE FIRED THE COOK, THE WAITRESS, AND THE OWNER!!!!!! No "soft landing for any of them" WE FIRED THEM!!! All of them. Given your logic, we should go back and pay for poor service, and poor food. Maybe you think we feel we "have ours" and screw them! Well you are right. Their pie(service) is not worth buying.

I could care less if some one has millions of times more wealth than I, "Bill Gates?". He provided a service and product which I was willing to buy. I see in so many people envy and jealosy AND EXCUSES for someone having accumulated more than they have. I see them as just looking for an excuse as to why they have not accumulated as much as someone else. ALWAYS THE BAD BUY IS THE ONE THAT HAS MORE!!!!!! They think the bad guy should give them some since they have more. They just want a SOFT LANDING.

I have no doubt that had I not been so stupid I could have accumulated far more than I have. That in nobody's fault but mine. Actually I feel that I paid far too much stupid tax. Again NOBODY'S FAULT BUT MINE.

I tell my son to look for the reasons for others' failures(the tightend of New England Patriots now charged with murder?), and learn from them. Look for the reasons for others' success(again Bill Gates) and learn from them. That would be my advise.

There you go again, Cary. Typical Republican knee jerk from you. I was replying posting on a thread relating to immigration not labor relations. I am not envious of you or any other person that has wealth, especially those that have earned it. I don't need handout from you, I have enough of my own. So, you can shove it if you like. Have fun counting it.

Translating cary's theorem to the current situation: (we are told that most of the illegal immigrants are from Mexico and Central America, so I'm using that as an example).
Things are so bad in Mexico for the poor, that they are willing to risk their lives to come to the US. They are willing to live and work in conditions here that we would consider "dirt poor" (but obviously is still better, in their opinion, than what it would be like in Mexico for them?) They make enough to send $ home to Mexico. The fact that they live here in fear of being sent back to Mexico is somehow our fault, that we need to apologize and fix it?

Yet, we did NAFTA which helped the Mexican economy at cost to US jobs. Just read yesterday that GM will be investing $650 million to expand and improve its Mexican plants. GM accounts for 20% of the manufacturing economy in Mexico. It did not say how much of a %-age Mexican production is of GM's total production. The article happened to mention that US taxpayers lost about $10 billion in the GM bailout. Guess we could consider that aid to Mexico, in addition to whatever else we may give them.

I guess this goes back to the fact that Mexico still thinks we "stole" CA, TX and AZ from Mexico. My understanding of that situation was that the non-Mexican settlers of those states (immigrants, you might say; comparable to the immigrants to the US from Europe & other places, before there were any formal immigrantion laws for either country) were treated so badly that they had their own secessions from Mexico. Similar, perhaps, to the 13 colonies seceding from the British empire? Didn't Mexico also "secede" from Spain in a similar fashion?

Could we solve this problem by just giving CA back to Mexico?

Another interesting article I read was about a small area in Mexico plagued by the drug cartels' violence where the citizens took it upon themselves to arm & defend themselves. They only have antiquated guns and machetes, but they set up their own "checkpoints" to protect themselves. It has actually been effective (at least at the time the article was written). Seems that the govt is leaving them alone to do this for themselves. If the govt of Mexico was smart, they would give them some decent arms, and repeat the same throughout the cartel operating areas. If the US were smart, it would do the same thing for those brave Mexicans who are willing to protect themselves. If ATF could get a couple of thousand illegal arms into Mexico to do so much harm, you'd think that they could get a couple of hundred into Mexico to do some good? That would be too simple, I suppose.

G.Clinchy@gmail.com"Know in your heart that all things are possible. We couldn't conceive of a miracle if none ever happened." -Libby Fudim

​I don't use the PM feature, so just email me direct at the address shown above.

So.....as I read this thread, it appears some progressives are OK with the influx of ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTSbecause some Republicans won't share???

I would like to quote Andrew "Dice" Clay here, but someone would be offended!!!

I am not in favor of illegal immigration. The fact that it has occurred to the extent it has is a great failure of government.

The question is what to do with those already here. There are a conservatively estimated 11 million here. The cost of rounding up and deporting an illegal is about $30,000 dollars. To get them all will cost about a third of a trillion dollars to round up and deport. This is not to mention the expansion of government to take up the task.

There are those who will put up a huge objection to deportation, namely those who employ stoop labor or an under the radar workforce. The American mantra is those who work hard should benefit from the fruits of their labor. I believe should be included in that a path to citizenship. If they contribute then they should be eligible and not kept permanently in an under class. That will come back and bite you in the end.

There will always be illegal immigration. You can build a fence or wall but it will be tunneled under. A ship load of immigrants from the Orient will inevitably discharge it load in the fog off the West Coast. Amnesty or no amnesty isn't going to make a difference. If there is no food on the table where you live, you are going to migrate to some place you can eat. If you are a Mexican farmer and the US subsidy to corn growers lowers the cost of corn world wide to the point you can't sell yours, then you are going to migrate. You can take steps to slow the rate of migration, but it is going to cost money and entail aggressive government action, something that Republicans loath.

I am not in favor of illegal immigration. The fact that it has occurred to the extent it has is a great failure of government.

The question is what to do with those already here. There are a conservatively estimated 11 million here. The cost of rounding up and deporting an illegal is about $30,000 dollars. To get them all will cost about a third of a trillion dollars to round up and deport. This is not to mention the expansion of government to take up the task.

There are those who will put up a huge objection to deportation, namely those who employ stoop labor or an under the radar workforce. The American mantra is those who work hard should benefit from the fruits of their labor. I believe should be included in that a path to citizenship. If they contribute then they should be eligible and not kept permanently in an under class. That will come back and bite you in the end.

There will always be illegal immigration. You can build a fence or wall but it will be tunneled under. A ship load of immigrants from the Orient will inevitably discharge it load in the fog off the West Coast. Amnesty or no amnesty isn't going to make a difference. If there is no food on the table where you live, you are going to migrate to some place you can eat. If you are a Mexican farmer and the US subsidy to corn growers lowers the cost of corn world wide to the point you can't sell yours, then you are going to migrate. You can take steps to slow the rate of migration, but it is going to cost money and entail aggressive government action, something that Republicans loath.

Good post!

I think it starts by making business do the SSN# check thru the national database.
Start with fortune 500 companies, then the next tier etc on down to Dan's Black Top Service.

No jobs for illegals, many stop coming.

This is essentially the result of the last FAILED effort for immigration reform.
Why do the same thing again?

As far as federal benifts, I don't know what to do.
I did hear Paul Ryan explain his plan this morning, it sounds good.
But we all know what happens once these idiots in congress get started on something.
It's like the game we played as kids, where you whisper something in someones ear, they pass it on and by the end of the 5 person line it bears no resemblance to the original thought.

Again, I think this issue is best addressed thru controlling the hiring of illegals.

I also think the 10 year path is at minimum the time frame to citizenship of the USA!
And all the same criteria used for LEGAL immigrants should be met.

There you go again, Cary. Typical Republican knee jerk from you. I was replying posting on a thread relating to immigration not labor relations. I am not envious of you or any other person that has wealth, especially those that have earned it. I don't need handout from you, I have enough of my own. So, you can shove it if you like. Have fun counting it.

First of all, if anyone were to classify me as to party, it would be Libertarian. Second the statement as to Republicans a "I have mine so screw you", has the same meaning whether applied to immigration or labor.

You say you are not envious of those who have wealth, "especially those who have earned it". Tell me who are those WHO HAVE NOT EARNED IT? That I would be curious to know.

You say "I have enough of my own". So you do have wealth. Do you have fun counting it? I grewup being taught that you SPEND LESS THAN YOU MAKE. IT IS NOT HOW MUCH YOU MAKE BUT HOW MUCH YOU SAVE. I will count it occasionally to see if I have been successful or failed. It is fun when I have been sucessful and not so fun if I have failed. I have lived that way as my Father did, to provide my son a better opportunity, not an equal opportunity(whatever that is). Do I consider this an important part of my life, hell yes. Do I consider this the only part of my life, hell no.

I once had someone tell me I had the most diverse group of friends when it came to economic wealth and educational background. I really had not ever thought about it. Neither had ever been that important when it came to my friends. I have since wondered if that was truly a compliment. Did she think that was by design or that was just the way it was. I guess I will never know the answer.

I will close with telling of the first time I met Huntinman at the jamboree that RK so kindly started. He came and didn't even have a dog. He sat out there not only throwing ducks all day long but also paid attention as to the needs of those running dogs. He helped those dogs that the handler would request and let those dogs hunt if necessary. He is the kind of person I like to call my friend. I can only hope that soon he will get the dog he wants and I can repay him for the help he gave me. Thanks Huntinman, I just want you to know that your work did not go unnoticed.

First of all, if anyone were to classify me as to party, it would be Libertarian. Second the statement as to Republicans a "I have mine so screw you", has the same meaning whether applied to immigration or labor.

You say you are not envious of those who have wealth, "especially those who have earned it". Tell me who are those WHO HAVE NOT EARNED IT? That I would be curious to know.

You say "I have enough of my own". So you do have wealth. Do you have fun counting it? I grewup being taught that you SPEND LESS THAN YOU MAKE. IT IS NOT HOW MUCH YOU MAKE BUT HOW MUCH YOU SAVE. I will count it occasionally to see if I have been successful or failed. It is fun when I have been sucessful and not so fun if I have failed. I have lived that way as my Father did, to provide my son a better opportunity, not an equal opportunity(whatever that is). Do I consider this an important part of my life, hell yes. Do I consider this the only part of my life, hell no.

I once had someone tell me I had the most diverse group of friends when it came to economic wealth and educational background. I really had not ever thought about it. Neither had ever been that important when it came to my friends. I have since wondered if that was truly a compliment. Did she think that was by design or that was just the way it was. I guess I will never know the answer.

I will close with telling of the first time I met Huntinman at the jamboree that RK so kindly started. He came and didn't even have a dog. He sat out there not only throwing ducks all day long but also paid attention as to the needs of those running dogs. He helped those dogs that the handler would request and let those dogs hunt if necessary. He is the kind of person I like to call my friend. I can only hope that soon he will get the dog he wants and I can repay him for the help he gave me. Thanks Huntinman, I just want you to know that your work did not go unnoticed.