RICHARD Flanagan has just explained to me (via The Book Show, ABC RN, 23/11/06) what it was that moved him to write The Unknown Terrorist.

Flanagan radiates a force for reason that, I sense, should be feared by those who, either through ignorance or intent, do not wish Australia well. I do not know the man, but for me he epitomises the type of person every decent Australian would want to be. Yet, in his home state he finds himself reviled by personalities and entities to whom the people should be able to turn for protection and guidance.

His crime was to suggest a “curiously close” link between government and business.

Flanagan’s pain — over rejection by powerful fellow Tasmanians and his confusion at finding himself simultaneously disliking yet still loving his country — is palpable. His reaction to being scorned is a reflection of the despair many Australians are feeling as they see being swept aside decades of social progress.

I am a new Australian, an early 1960s drop-by Pom who was on a global hike after two fabulous yet disillusioning years in the service of Her Majesty Elizabeth II of Britain (Elizabeth I of Australia), defending a remnant of empire in South-East Asia. I know now that I have loved this country from the day — January 8, 1961 — I first set foot in the country.

Over the next decade, after to-ing and fro-ing between Sydney and, first, the Pacific, and then East Asia, I came home to stay. Within a few years I committed myself to Australian citizenship. It was a time of great hope, even though Australians had just suffered the indignity of having their democratically elected government expelled from office by a drunken viceroy.

I was by then a diplomatic representative of Australia in the Pacific and I worked — confident in the knowledge that my homeland had thrown off the shackles of White Australia — to enhance Australia’s improving reputation beyond its shores.

Surprisingly, the man who on November 11, 1975 had skulked in a wing of Yarralumla — after a lacklustre prime ministership — was to become a beacon of the generosity and humanitarian decency that were to be hallmarks of Australia’s worldwide efforts through the years of the Fraser, Hawke and Keating administrations.

Through those years, I proudly brandished my Aussie passport wherever I went. I was a representative of a nation that was working for global cohesion, that was ever ready to build bridges between enemies or to provide help when requested; a nation that honoured UN conventions and promoted the world body as our planet’s only real hope for global understanding.

I am disgusted

I was a proud Australian, aware of the value of, and respect afforded, my citizenship. Today, I still love my country with undimmed intensity, but, like Richard Flanagan, I don’t much like it any more, my pride is faltering and, should I venture overseas, I would find it impossible to walk with my head held high.

I am disgusted with its leader and its chief lawmaker. Each I believe is shameful; Each I believe is shameless; and each, I believe, should be charged with child abuse and human-rights violations over their actions vis-à-vis the treatment of refugees.

I am appalled that decent Australian military personnel — on the orders of John Howard as a lackey of a deranged, intellectually inept US president — are unwelcome combatants in Iraq and Afghanistan. I dream of the day that America’s George W. Bush, Britain’s narcissistic Tony Blair and Australia’s megalomaniacal John Howard — like Iraq’s Saddam Hussein — will stand before a court charged with war crimes for their actions over Iraq.

I am alarmed, like Richard Flanagan, that Australians, in the name of the “war on terror”, can, by law, be “disappeared”. I am infuriated that those unjustly arrested and then released cannot tell even their families where they have been.

And I am tormented by the knowledge that Australians in general are so wimpish, or apathetic, or both, that they are not protesting in unison that John Howard, ably abetted by his confused and confusing “opposition leader, is embarked upon a methodical policy of exacting the obedience of voters by instilling in them an insidious fear that their safety and well-being are imperilled by a never-ending threat of terrorist attack.

John Howard — as the United States has been terrorising the people of this planet somewhere throughout all my 68 years — is terrorising me and my fellow Australians today.

It is for these reasons that, like Richard Flanagan — though I love my country dearly — I am neither proud of it, nor do I like what is happening.

Most of us are likely to survive John Howard (my contemporary), but I have no such certainty that we will survive the cancers the likes of Howard, Bush and Blair have implanted in the global body politic and the very fibres of our communities.

Bob Hawkins

I was a proud Australian, aware of the value of, and respect afforded, my citizenship. Today, I still love my country with undimmed intensity, but, like Richard Flanagan, I don’t much like it any more, my pride is faltering and, should I venture overseas, I would find it impossible to walk with my head held high.

I am disgusted with its leader and its chief lawmaker. Each I believe is shameful; Each I believe is shameless; and each, I believe, should be charged with child abuse and human-rights violations over their actions vis-à-vis the treatment of refugees.

Was he another Andrew Wilkie, just a little retarded, perhaps by his oath of allegiance.

I thought of those who had marched against and continue to oppose the attack on Iraq and the similarity of the reasons given then, to wit, the lack of evidence.

Scott Ritter and Robert Fisk led the evidence debate where most of the media dutifully reported the statements of the cancer makers and the so called evidence.

Fourth Estate, where is their moment of sunshine or even a report on the strong undercurrent that has continued to run through Austrlaian society to now break like a pimple on the hard fist of government.

A popular leader is able to take the nation on a destructive course with continued support, the supposed opposition is focused on its roosters.

Is it any wonder the third force has grown so rapidly.

Posted by phill Parsons on 29/11/06 at 06:25 AM

“..I don’t much like it any more, my pride is faltering and, should I venture overseas, I would find it impossible to walk with my head held high.” - Bob Hawkins.

After the results of the last federal election came in, my wife and I (and quite a good few of our friends) no longer felt “Australian” anymore. Problem was, I only had an Australian passport, so venturing overseas was percieved “too dangerous” by us. I could have reverted to a British passport, but that would have been too dangerous also (all thanks to deputy sheriff no. 2, Mr Blair!). Our only “safe” option would have been for my wife to apply for an Aboriginal passport…..?

What a shameful turn-around for Australia which, back in the 70’s and 80’s, was looked upon so positively by the rest of the world for umpiring peaceful solutions to conflict, and for its humanitarian generosity.

Now look at where we stand! This last decade, under Howard, should be seen for what it is - a decade of lost opportunity, both domestically and internationally. Australia has lost its place in the world. It is just one more rogue nation with a despotic leader at the helm.

“I dream of the day that America’s George W. Bush, Britain’s narcissistic Tony Blair and Australia’s megalomaniacal John Howard — like Iraq’s Saddam Hussein — will stand before a court charged with war crimes for their actions over Iraq.” - Bob Hawkins.

And so they should! Thank you, Bob, for having the guts to suggest it, and for openly expressing the opinions of many who are lying low for fear of retribution from so-called “patriots”. For, under Howard, to be Australian is to be a patriotic American!

I think it time that all genuine Australians rescue their country and stear it back on the correct course.

Can we be the friendly, fun-loving, humanitarian, fair-go people we used to be famous for? Or are we content to follow the course dictated to by a puppet captain who is stearing us through the fog, oblivious to the rocks and reefs that surround this “ship of fools”?

I think its time WE took control of the wheel!

Posted by Tassie Smurf on 29/11/06 at 09:45 AM

So much has been made of Howard’s headline- grabbing transgressions against human rights and democracy that many people overlook his quiet achievements in infusing his own spiteful mediocrity into the bloodstream of public life.

Education, scientific research, public information, health care, the arts, public media, and public services generally have all been systematically run down for no apparent reason other than a kind of entropic mean-spiritedness.

With little talent and less charisma, J Winston has managed to produce a mini Dark Age in Australia The challenge now is to compose a fitting monument to the man. A submerged Sydney wouldn’t be bad.

John Hayward

Posted by john Hayward on 29/11/06 at 02:05 PM

T.S.
i get sick and tired of hearing, “it,s time we took control” in the real world that only happens when peoples are starving, homeless,and murdered, by regimes, “you get the picture,”
Now ! there really is little difference in what we have, and a total regimented society, its just the way that the end result is arrived at , One by sheer, brute,force like , today ! The other, by stealth, slowly and methodically so as to not raise undue alarm, nevertheless, ultimately ending with exactly the same result !
So, T.S we do have a start with with the odd underfed - park bench night shift, but as yet not nearly enough, also we need to be able to nail a few murderers in the regime , before any one will listen.
For christ sake! why does everyone blame the feds for what goes wrong with the Labour run states .
Scrap state govts and local councils , in this year of 2006 ,it is far to expensive to maintain. We need centralised govt with a nominated number of reps from each state, in other words run he country like a well oiled cooporation (however not all) streamline, and become cost effective with an inplace watchdog, with far reaching powers voted in at regular intervals by the electorate, perhaps a streamlined version of the senate.
We don,t have to like little John,y but really at this time just what is the option, for me it is the ascention of Costello , he will make a good prime minister in my reckoning, however i have a feeling that he little blokes got old Ben,s record set firmly in his sights, what a bugger!
d.d.
now ! i know that this is just going to go down like a lead balloon.
d.d.

Posted by DON DAVEY on 29/11/06 at 03:49 PM

Agreed, Bob, with all your sentiments.

It is little wonder our public service is displaying ever more severe symptoms of incompetence and our state government is treating those it was elected to serve with complete contempt. The example being set by the odious little shit at the national helm and his sychophantic lackies in the name of leadership is a national disgrace.

This disgrace of a man expounded Australia’s democratic credentials based on the fact we were the only democracy to be established without a revolution. The irony of his arguement is that he has done more than any single individual to change that reality. He pushes us closer to fascism by the day and we will all suffer the consequences.

TS, i have to disagree, I believe the odious little shit knows exactly where he is sending us, and the ever increasing web of legislation enabling a police state, based on a farcical narrative, does nothing to lessen my conviction in that regard. I am curious to know why he is sending us on our current course, maybe someone teased him at school.

Posted by A view from the hill on 29/11/06 at 04:33 PM

What a pathetic self indulgent squeal.

So you arrived in a democratic country years ago, took up citizenship and took advantage of it’s benefits after deserting your home country, and now wish you hadn’t.

Please don’t let the door smack your arse on the way out.

Your squeal is acceptable because we live in a democracy of free speech. You have the opportunity to cast a vote. You can even go a step further and put yourself up as an option for the electorate and form part of the process of government, if the electorate thinks you are worthy of representing it.

But you won’t. If you do, you won’t have any success because people won’t vote for you. They won’t agree with your pathetic view of our society.

You are disgusted by our society and our government. The solution is clear - emigrate. Little will change in Australia to satisfy you as you appear to have a hatred of the majority of the population.

As for your fawning comments about richard flanagan- “... but for me he epitomises the type of person every decent Australian would want to be…” - well I’d love to have some of what you’re smoking!

Posted by barking toad on 29/11/06 at 08:04 PM

Repartee that engages vernacular like ‘odious little shit’ hardly adds to informed dialogue on macro global issues such as the interaction of countries engaged in the complex fight against terrorism. I wonder if the anti-Us and Australian commentators would feel the same if a son, daughter, father or mother had to make the terrible decision to fling earthwards out of hopelessness and despair from the flaming twin-towers not so long ago.
This was a vexing time for the world where one philosophy opposed to all others manifested itself in a live-to-air reality TV horror-show that our soldiers and leaders can hopefully prevent from ever happening again. At the time, who had all the answers? Who could have anticipated such a horror-show curtain-raiser to Third World War as many of our non-political world leaders today speak of global terrorism. I have children and grandchildren in this world and look to elected leaders to maximize the effort to eliminate any threat to their living good, decent and safe lives in a country that has thus far served us well. In the wake of the Vietnam War which only the uninformed and naïve would describe as colonial muscle-flexing, Australia’s most influential newspaper, The Australian, for decades intellectualized the folly of the war while at the same time defending the honour of the soldiers who fought it. The lead article in this newspaper in time for the commemoration of the Long Tan battle, admitted to my great joy that the sacrifice of our commitment to Vietnam was worthwhile and justified. It contended that Ho Chi Min was no people’s hero, but more a callous megalomaniac clinging fervently to the false belief of communism as an egalitarian alternative to capitalism. Coca Cola and MacDonalds are today’s iconic truisms that indeed we won the Vietnam War. ‘The Australian’ at long-last conceded what most soldiers of that ‘odious’ war knew, that had the Americans and its allies not committed to the rice-paddies and bamboo warfare, millions more simple-living Vietnamese would have died in their own struggle against an authoritarian regimen that would today have isolated them from the changing world as is poor deluded North Korea. Its okay to take the high moral ground when naïve idealists get a bit of rough legal treatment after being caught in an enemy camp and so many well-meaning Australians call foul. Allegedly he is an enemy of his own countrymen. Would he have fired on our brave men and women and perhaps killed or maimed a fellow soldier? Would he have lethally returned to my country, where yet still a mother weeps at the headstone of her fallen son in Mansfield high country; one of tens of thousands of tears that have washed the memory of sacrifice for a land still worth living in. If we so believe that the currency of Australian democracy is lessened by one alleged-traitor’s treatment, then why don’t we open the prison doors and release poor deluded Martin Bryant. Or at least open the law books and ask why he never stood trial for Australia’s worst act of terrorism? I would much rather the revered Richard Flanagan to have dedicated his book to the forgotten Schapelle. In the context of justice her plight is Australia’s shame. Global thinking is that the oppressive communist ideology was stopped in Vietnam. Today it shrinks, perhaps that thinking is right. Remember Nazism? Its heart beats weakly in pockets of emancipated Germany and perhaps in the hallowed halls of the Tasmanian Parliament. Remember Jed? Of course, nobody knows Jed and I pray to God they never hear of him. He is just one of many unknown soldiers preparing for embarkation to Iraq. Go get the bastards Jed, you have the support of true Australians. Perhaps your shot might be the one that is heard across the world. The one that destroyed the march of manic terrorism.

I saw him too just recently
Publicly indecently
Telling student leader he
Should bring our soldiers home

I saw a larger Labor man
With his arm about this little man
Lamenting a long-lost refrain
To fool the people once again

I hear their message loud and clear
That they would hurt Australia dear
These traitors of our yesteryear
Now cowards too I loathe and fear.
So bring the diggers home they say
What a gift for Christmas Day
Turn our backs on USA
And watch our friendship fall away.

I can never live along
With my friends who hear their song
That my country turn and run
Cowards we must not become
Who let the bastards in, please ask
Who let the bastards in
These evil, plotting aliens
Our enemy within.
Australians all we must take stock
And stand as one once more
Send a message to these shits
Let them hear Australia roar
That we will stay and stand with you
Good people of Iraq
Until we’ve cured the cancer there
Aussies won’t back track
I never thought I’d witness it
The gutlessness I’ve heard
From those who once were leaders
For want of a better word

So Aussie close your ears to what
The cowering fearful say
Stand as one before our flag
Australia’s there to stay.

Ask yourself who started this
And read the written sign
We’re in the Armageddon friends
Satan’s grand design

The honeymoon is over where just soldiers go to war
The fanatic force is everywhere
Beyond every nation’s shore
And you have seen him as foretold
And heard his message clear
Satanic verses on TV
His massive weapon, fear.

So soldiers of the mind must we become
All peoples of the world
Who cherish simple freedoms
More precious now than gold
Its nought to do with wealth or oil
Or muscle-flexing fools
Its the foretold uprising
The abandonment of rules

To even contemplate a deal with Osama Bin Satan
Will change for ever the way we feel
About our great nation
For if we turn our backs on mates
Who’ve given us their sons
When we’ve been imperilled by the march of Japs and Huns
Then all the names that are carved in stone
On crosses grand and plain
The courage and the sacrifice
Will have been in vain.

Posted by Paul Tapp on 30/11/06 at 11:09 AM

The decay and degradation of our systems is evidenced every day in our media and in our life experiences.

What is needed is a countervailing series of conversations and actions. While we sit at home watching Big Brother and stuffing high GI products down our necks; hoons, criminals and oafs are running rampant with our resources and systems.

Instead of wailing about the results, we need to DO something to counter what’s happening.

For those unversed in action, doing something doesn’t mean more emails, holding a meeting or waiting four years to vote. It means stacking labor and liberal branches, getting in our politicians faces, telling our governments what we expect, finding ways to hold them to account and otherwise creating the lives that we really want.

A progressive way forward is worthwhile and interesting but it won’t happen unless we create it ourselves. We certainly can’t wait for the likes of our parliamentary ‘representatives’.

That much is clear.

Posted by Mike Bolan on 30/11/06 at 11:28 AM

I certainly don’t want to live in a country that is run “like a well-oiled corporation.” I used to work for one of those, and that was bad enough.

It is still possible to undo a fair bit of the damage Howard has done, but can anyone seriously expect Beazley, Rudd or (heaven help us) the smirking Costello to do that much better?

Which of them is going to repeal the “anti-terror” laws, abolish the GST and institute genuine measures to counteract climate change, let alone legislate for a bill of rights?

The simple fact is that Australia can’t scratch itself without getting permission from the global corporations and their middle management in Washington. It wouldn’t make the slightest difference if we had the Socialist Alliance, the Communist Party, the Exclusive Brethren or the Taliban in office, they wouldn’t be in charge.

Posted by Justa Bloke on 30/11/06 at 12:11 PM

In each and every condemnation i have heard from anyone regarding Peter Costello it has been his “smirk”
Now how childish is that ! ,to judge one by his looks , i have studied peter costello for most of his career and read at length on his persona, added to also by his brother Tim , so here is a scoop for you all to put away and perhaps have reason to admonish me at a later date. It is my humble and considered opinion that should Peter costello get the opportunity that he deserves in order to put into place “his own” agender ,he will go on to be one of the best ,if not the best we have had, notwithstanding the smirk ! ( perhaps he has one leg shorter than the other also, i guess we had better check as that also undoubtably will affect his performance !) so remember kiddies you heard it here first.
d.d.

Posted by DON DAVEY on 30/11/06 at 01:51 PM

Paul, I am proud to have done my humble bit, in Australia and in California, to undermine and subvert the imperialist war machine that invaded Vietnam.

I am still waiting for the dominos to fall.

I can condemn the attacks of September 2001 on civilians in the USA without believing that revenge has any value, even had that revenge been accurately directed.

I could go on a lot more in response to your postings, but I shall just point out that in the latest poll conducted in Iraq 78% of Iraqis told researchers that the U.S. military presence is “provoking more conflict than it is preventing”; 71% said they want U.S. troops out within a year; 58% said they think inter-ethnic violence will diminish if the U.S. withdraws; and 61% think that a U.S. withdrawal will improve day-to-day security for average Iraqis.

Perhaps you know better than those you so patronisingly address as “good people of Iraq”, but even if you do, please consider whose country it is.

Posted by Justa Bloke on 30/11/06 at 02:00 PM

Super Annoyed back for a mo’ - can’t help myself with this thread…

I am not surprised at the sympathies expressed by Flanagan in his silly new, badly-written book. I have always thought the over-hyped Flanagan was motivated out of a frustrated need for power and to satisfy his ego. He blew his chance for the power he seeks by pooing on his comrades in the ALP with his vicious, poorly-timed attack on the just-dead Jim Bacon. Many of the same sets of motivations drive the current Islamists and suicide bombers - perceived powelessness on a background of extraordinary arrogance and the notion that their side should be ruling the world.

On the one hand, I would agree that the Islamists need to be stamped on, heavily. However, this needs to be balanced with a strong engagement with the moderate muslim populations in developed countries, as well as the few moderate muslim democracies of the world. I don’t think we should be in any doubt that the Islamists want to overthrow Western-style democracy, not unlike the commies of the previous generation. I think this is why we see this strange anti-US, anti-Israel alliance between the lazy left in Western countries with the no-compromise Islamist movements budding up around the world.

However, this current Federal government must be singled out for its appalling, divisive record. While I recognize that all governments need to maintain good ties with industry and our Western allies, the sycophantic sell-out of Australia’s interests by Howard and co is spectacular for it obviousness and harm to our otherwise great democracy. Howard, Nelson, Ruddock and their acolytes and cronies will go down in history as the most brazen inward-looking pack of arseholes to have ever been in power. Say what you like about Keating, but at least he had a vision for Australia, particularly an independently-minded country which could hold its head up on the international stage. I can only take hope that age will finally take care of Howard and he will exit the political stage.

The winds of change are sweeping across America so we can look forward to a Democrat taking executive charge there. I know there are a lot of US-haters that frequent TT, but it is an extraordinarily robust, relevant and important democracy with the capacity for self-correction. The US also has some capacity to recognise its mistakes and usually ends up highlighting where it could have done better. Contrast this to the blood-thirsty Islamist elements out there who would quite happily butcher every last non-believer on the face of the world. The Left is strangely silent on the atrocities committed by the Islamist forces, not only against the West but also against muslim communities.

Paul Tapp is right - we must always be vigilant against totalitarianism in all its guises.

Posted by Super annoyed on 30/11/06 at 05:24 PM

“Repartee that engages vernacular like ‘odious little shit’ hardly adds to informed dialogue on macro global issues such as the interaction of countries engaged in the complex fight against terrorism.”

Maybe not, Paul, but I have made my my position clear to all. It was my intent.

As for informed dialogue, its a bit difficult for any of us to have an informed dialogue on this subject. The whole subject area is the domain of people who will not tell the truth(spies), cannot tell the truth (politicians), are prevented from telling the truth (anyone accused under a growing raft of anti terror laws, sorry, caught, as now you dont even have to be accused!)and who have forgotton the value of truth (the western MSM)

This so called “war on terrorism” is about as futile as trying to get rid of mercury by driving it into the floor with a sledgehammer. Spike Milligan had a phrase that is particularly suitable, “the floggings will continue until morale improves” From Gunner Who, if my memory is correct.

True leadership in this matter would require western leadership to honestly address the many and manifest grievences of the parts of the world which give rise to terrorism. Responses like the genocide underway in Iraq using formented sectarian violence and depleted uranium which will poison the place for tens of thousands of years is hardly a smart way to reduce the likelyhood of young Iraqi’s forming the view that killing westerners is a suitable response.

Supporting the Isreali clusterbombing of Lebanese territory does not help either. Residual death for noncombatants (kids, for fucks sake).

The presence of the military industrial complex is integral in the current state of affairs, and the question of “who benefits” should always be foremost in our minds as it is in any competently conducted investigation. I have read far and wide and have seen no coherent arguement in defense of the war on terror. On the other hand I have read countless hundreds of articles detailing the myriad of flaws in the arguement that the war on terror is a vital, unavoidable action required to make the world a safer place.

Paul, I am no coward, I have placed myself in harms way to protect others and I would do it again. I fully support those who elect to learn the skills of war in order that they may practice them to our national benefit. Support that our government seems to forget once the photo opps with returning servicemen are over. I am a decendant of a WW1 veteran and am profoundly aware of the prices paid by both survivours and their families.

I will, however reserve the right to state, bluntly if needed, my objection the the misuse of those brave souls in the name of greed, religious bigotry, or outright stupidity. Frankly, it is my duty to do just that, and to do any less would be unAustralian.

Posted by A view from the hill on 30/11/06 at 07:50 PM

Rightly or wrongly we went there in support of the u.s.a. and the u.k., our allies ! and once again i will state that it is all very well to be wise in retrospect however we have contributeed to the mayhem, the extraordinary damage, therefore we clean up our mess ,to do anything less would be criminal and cowardly and australian soldiers are neither. so move on.
d.d.

Posted by DON DAVEY on 30/11/06 at 08:04 PM

Reading the above by Bob, and the following responses, I can only feel sadness for the country of my birth. I empathise with Bob, for in a sense he matches my own father, although my father never defended his country or the British empire, he is now a citizen of Australia.
I am sad because the history that we are proud of is used as a political tool, and wielded like a blunt instrument in favour of one cause or another. I’m sad because the reality that I see is that Howard is in power because people let him, because they wanted to have security, and of course it looks as if the government carefully makes the world seem frightening, and because he promised employment and ‘economic growth’.
So while the majority sit in comfort and satisfaction, with their plasma TV and DVD player, the world can go on and they don’t need to worry about it.
But society and civilization surely is an amorphous, ever changing organism, and attempting to compare times past to the present is oversimplification.
To Paul Tapp, a well written poem, but the words used were awful. But if you want to compare the past with the present, it’s easy. As an example, Germany invaded a sovereign nation, Poland, in 1939. Australia and the British Commonwealth went to war to defend Poland, and ultimately itself.
In 2003, the United States, Great Britain and Australia (& a small number of other nations) invaded Iraq, a sovereign nation.
Muslims from neighbouring countries, now go to Iraq to defend it, and potentially their own nations too.
The arguments around why Saddam deserved to be removed from power are irrelevant -fundamentally that was not the ‘excuse’ used at the time. The excuse turned out to be a LIE. If the United States and its allies were really out to rid the world of evil dictators then why does China have most favoured nation trading status when it murders thousands of its own citizens by firing squad every year, sending the victim’s family a bill for the bullet?
Why is the USA (and us) therefore not at war with North Korea, with Myanmar, with Zimbabwe, with Iran, Saudi Arabia, Belarus, and so on?
Spare me the propaganda and the appalling hypocrisy, PLEASE!
Please note that I did not mention Afghanistan. The Taliban were a cruel despotic regime that thoroughly deserved to be removed from power -the fact that they supported Osama Bin Laden was a good reason to get rid of them and I’m glad Australian troops are in that country trying to rebuild a shattered nation.
But let me make it clear where I see our civilization. It is and has been as always, run by greed. Now, corporations control government policy through this same motivation. If you want to get religious, well I believe that is mentioned as one of the seven deadly sins.
Astonishingly enough, it looks as though this greed will be humankind’s undoing.
Feel free to disregard climate change, feel free to disregard warnings of doom and gloom.
Feel free to absolve yourself of any blame, enjoy yourself watching David Attenborough’s nature programs.
But as long as greed rules, I’m very much afraid that mankind, and Australia as a nation I wish I could be proud of, has no chance.
Those of you who defend the status quo will no doubt want to draw a line between the dots and think that I’m advocating some kind of bizarre non-technological anarchic utopia. What rubbish.
I’m simply speaking out against greed.
A quick google finds this definition;
Noun 1. greed - excessive desire to acquire or possess more (especially more material wealth) than one needs or deserves.
Kim Jong-Il of North Korea fits the description. So does “Dubya”. So, in my opinion, does John Howard, so do a few notables in Tasmania, whom I’ve no need to name, and so does any corporation you care to name.
I think greed is threatening humankind’s very survival, that saddens me enormously.
Applying the question of ‘Just who is being greedy here?’ in any given situation can often be enlightening.

I look forward to the outraged responses of those who are prepared to deny the manifestly obvious greed of others.

Posted by Toby Rowallan on 01/12/06 at 01:07 AM

Justa Bloke, there’ll always be narrow-visioned dissidents in pseudo-democracies like Australia sniping from the cover of pseudonyms and beating their chests at the dilettantish contribution they make to informed debate. From the outset of the Iraq war, it was stated by a secular leader there that US intervention to establish democratic infrastructure in his country would fail, for Arabs simply didn’t understand democracy. The reasons for this of course is that they’ve never had it and cruel regimes like Saddam Hussein’s have never been able to accommodate the concept of universal brotherhood as our system strives to do. I would have undertaken a one-person invasion to ‘do my humble bit’ just to stop him from gouging out the eyes of the children of his enemy, but thankfully the US beat me to it. Saddam (until his spider-hole exit from his brutal affairs) was a one-man WMD. I would have liked to have seen the US go in, kick arse and piss off, maybe divert to Tasmania on the way home. Our own elected regime needs some outside intervention; smug in its election success continuum; borne of ignorance and apathy where its key support base is of rednecks who’d chop down the last tree for a new heavily-spotlighted 4WD and a duck-license. The Liberal Party virtually has the same macro-mill support base as the Labor Party and so will forever stay in opposition. The Greens can’t attack the loss of our pastureland and roadside vistas to rapid-growth incentive-based plantations to feed a jolly green giant, because a new tree to a Green is appeasement; corruption and deceit never become an election issue because the redneck Labor support base don’t have dictionaries…and so the status quo remains. I’d love to see George pop in with one of his tanks and reinstate democracy into Tasmania and then go home. But then again Justa-bloke would we recognise democracy if we had it? I hear you justifying your subversive practices in Australia and California Justa-bloke. Just what did you do, throw red paint on returning soldiers? Write letters to the mourning parents of fallen soldiers, saying their loss was unjustified? You can do that right now actually, to the parents who’ve lost their brave sons off Fiji. After all Australia was poised to invade Fiji was it not, to restore democracy? I can understand why you hide behind nom-de-plumes. Those who police the rule of law might have similar interest in your subversive activities as they have in David Hicks, popular hero of those ever-disgruntled with fallible democracy.

Posted by Paul Tapp on 01/12/06 at 05:12 AM

It’s a cliche, but it still applies, as far as I’m concerned, Paul.
Two wrongs do not make a right. Ever.

Posted by Toby Rowallan on 01/12/06 at 07:37 AM

I never threw paint at returning soldiers, Paul, and I never supported anyone who sent them away to kill and die. I committed sabotage in order to save lives, and I helped change public opinion by various methods, most quite legal, until the governments that controlled the invading armies woke up to reality.

I can assure you that “those who police the law” did (and still do) take an interest in my activities, which is one reason I use a nom-de-plume.

War has never yet solved any problem.

If Arab countries have never experienced democracy it is largely because the colonial powers after the break-up of the Ottoman Empire didn’t want them to. Attempts to impose any political system from outside by force of arms will always fail in the medium to long term.

There is a fascinating rough parallel between Iraq today and the early years of the USA. After the tyrannical rule of a madman (George III/Saddam) those who wanted freedom fought, with outside help (from France/USA) and achieved it. Soon afterwards there was a terrible Civil War, but eventually democacy and national unity were achieved and they all lived happily ever after (sort of).

The big difference is that France didn’t hang around after helping out, in order to control what sort of economic or political system was put in place. Nor did France rip off the local resources.

The USA in the 21st Century is perfectly capable of “surgically” removing any leader they don’t approve of, without starting a war. Look at what they did to Allende 30 years earlier. The first mistake apologists for the war against Iraq make is to ignore the viability of that option for regime change.

Besides, it is now three years since Saddam has been in captivity. He has been sentenced to death. There is no way he can possibly be used as an excuse to continue the occupation.

Al-Qaeda wanted to get rid of Saddam just as badly as Bush did. They have managed to get the US (and in our own small way, Australia) to do their work for them. Are you proud of that, Paul? Are you proud to have supported decisions and actions that have resulted in increased power and popularity for that evil bunch of murderers? Are you proud to have supported the acquisition of political power by a gang of Shiite misogynist clerics who have already set the cause of women’s rights back a couple of centuries in and around Basra (in what used to be, even under Saddam, the most progressive Arab country in this regard)?

Does anyone think that a government whose ministers were prepared to ignore hints about $300 million of our money going into Saddam’s coffers had any specific reason to get involved in the war other than cosying up to Bush and his crazy neo-con mates?

David Hicks was obviously misguided at best and possibly maliciously motivated. The facts, however, are that he broke no Australian law and that he has not had a fair trial (unlike murderers, rapists, and some war criminals) for whatever else he may have done wrong. He is no hero of mine, but it is impossible to espouse the value of “a fair go” and also believe that what has happened to him is OK.

Posted by Justa Bloke on 01/12/06 at 08:26 AM

Paul Tapp ,in retrospect after having initially agreed with the brunt of your comments post 17. I can,t however, agree with those regarding David Hicks.
d.d.

Posted by DON DAVEY on 01/12/06 at 08:29 AM

Toby, your reference to greed,
It appears that N.A.B
C.E.O pocketed $8.5 million for 05—06 period whilst the bank moved 175 more jobs overseas.
Greed indeed! and just who can tell me that one man is worth that kind of money ?
d.d.

Posted by DON DAVEY on 01/12/06 at 05:29 PM

STOP THE PRESSES - I want to get off! Post #13 - is that the REAL Super Annoyed or the fake one? We all thoought that grumpy SA retired some months ago from TT to join a political party. I think the comments in his/her post above now reveal the party of membership (and the tone of posting over the past few years). However we never really believed that you did retire SA - what with the plethora of new right-wing idealogues who have sprouted on this site since (hi Tomas). It must be pretty frantic in the Tas Labor dirt unit/govt media unit with a federal election around the corner.

We hope you arent advising the ALP on satellite image interpretation (Ha!).

Posted by The pills made me do it on 03/12/06 at 08:19 AM

Pillsy me friend - I’m not Super Annoyed but am pretty sure who he is, especially given political membership as per above. Quite a well-known Tasmanian and I could see why he wants to keep his identity quiet. Just look out at the next election. But then again, I could be wrong.

In any case, he doesnt look that right wing - maybe on the right of the ALP which is a long way from the right wing of the Liberals. I would say that I was much more right wing (but distrust all political parties in general) - but I particularly despise all those weak-arse, do-nothing, post-modern lefties that crowd the cafes around Hobart. I also have disdain for everything Launceston - full of landed gentry and other assorted boguns - totally up themselves with nought to back it up.

That felt like a good rant!

Posted by Tomas on 03/12/06 at 10:38 AM

SA have you read Flanagan’s book…..if so ...why would you based on your opinion of him…if not ..how can you state it is badly written in your opinion ?

Posted by Craig Woodfall on 03/12/06 at 12:09 PM

Don, it has nothing to do with what you are worth and everything to do with what you can gouge out of the system. And in the process it is inevitable that other people will get screwed, because most pools of money are finite.

If one man can gain that kind of money by sacking a few hundred others, he’s worth every cent in the eyes of those who otherwise would have been paying the wages of those sacked, but who instead are getting bigger dividends. That’s simple mathematics.

You can’t support an economic system and then whinge about its natural processes.

Posted by Justa Bloke on 03/12/06 at 03:19 PM

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