117 Comments by sag2harbor

The Hills Have A SurpriseDevelopers now want to build 118 homes, golf course in East QuogueBY KYLE CAMPBELLThe developers behind a proposal that would bring an 18-hole golf course and dozens of new luxury, second homes to East Quogue rolled out a new plan last Thursday night, February 6, which now calls for the construction 36 additional residential units in exchange for preserving a swath of wooded land to the east.The announcement, which came about 45 minutes into a informational hearing hosted by those behind the proposed The Hills at Southampton project, caught some of the estimated 60 community members by surprise, with a few noting that the revised plan—which now proposes the construction of 118 residential units, and not the 82 as originally pitched— is much different from the pre-application approved last month by the Southampton Town Board.Those changes, and the associated benefits of the modified proposal, did not sway the opinions of those residents who were steadfastly against the proposal, like Billy Kearns, who said he hardly recognized the plan discussed last Thursday night, which seeks to develop 436 acres in East Quogue.“This project changes on a weekly basis,” Mr. Kearns said. “The current addition of potentially 36 new homes into the project is ridiculous, and I think there’s nothing static about this project—it’s always changing.“I don’t think it’s a positive development for East Quogue,” he continued. “It’s detrimental to the water, it’s detrimental to the Pine Barrens.”Mr. Kearns went as far as to say that the developers pulled a “bait-and-switch” on both the Town Board and community by securing board approval for the pre-application on the 82-unit plan in mid-January and then significantly altering the proposal less than a month later.Wayne Bruyn, the attorney representing the East Quogue Group LLC, which owns the 436 acres, said the town’s application process for planned development districts, or PDDs, is designed to be fluid so changes can be made to fit the interests of the town, the developer and residents. So while the proposal has been modified, Mr. Bruyn added, it is within the developers’ rights to do so.East Quogue Civic Association President Al Algieri, who has long opposed the project, also said he still isn’t sold on the idea or the recent changes. Specifically, he said he is concerned that the proposed 33,000-square-foot clubhouse and restaurant, despite the assurances to the contrary by the developers, could still be used as a catering facility. Mr. Algieri also said he is concerned about the increase in traffic that the homes and golf course would generate, even though most of that would be generated by those who own the multimillion-dollar homes and have access to the golf course.“There’s a lot of things they have to substantiate—period,” Mr. Algieri said. “And that’s going to be the process. “They covered everything they could by statements, not facts. When the real process comes in, they’ll have to do a [Generic Environmental Impact Statement], they’ll do a traffic study. I think the traffic study will be the biggest part—because there’s one lane in and one lane out.”Charles “Chick” Voorhis, an environmental planning consultant with Melville-based Nelson, Pope and Voorhis LLC hired by the would-be developers, the Discovery Land Company and East Quogue Group, explained to those gathered in the East Quogue Elementary School auditorium last week that his clients plan to buy two more properties in the hamlet and transfer their development rights to the estimated 436 acres that they already own. The two partners are collectively known as DLV Quogue, which is the name that is listed on the pre-application for the Mixed-Use Planned Development District, or MUPDD, that is being sought for the new development.The first additional property, a 62-acre plot that sits to the west and abuts the DLV Quogue land, is owned by the Kracke family and would be used to house an entry road into the new development. Currently, the land is zoned residential and can accommodate up to a dozen single-family homes.The second property measures approximately 94 acres and sits about a half mile east of The Hills property, and was once part of the Parlato family’s proposed Atlanticville subdivision. Up to two dozen single-family homes could behttp://olive.pressnewsgroup.com/Olive/ODE/SouthamptonWest/PrintComponentView.htm Page 1 of 43/2/14, 2:02 PMconstructed on that undisturbed property, according to current zoning.The main 436-acre property, which is already owned by DLV Quogue, is partially disturbed and extends from the intersection of Lewis and Spinney roads north and crosses Sunrise Highway. If the MUPDD is ultimately approved by a super-majority of the Southampton Town Board, the Parlato property would be preserved in perpetuity, according to Ed Divita, the senior development and construction manager for Discovery Land Company, the primary partner behind DLV Quogue.The purpose behind acquiring the Kracke property is to quell concerns about traffic congestion near Lewis and Spinney roads, Mr. Voorhis explained, citing the complaints many residents raised about the area’s existing traffic problems, particularly in the summer months, during the project’s pre-application public hearings in front of the Town Board last year. The preservation of the Parlato property is meant to address claims that the MUPDD’s pre-application did not provide enough of a public benefit, which is a requirement under the town’s laws regulating PDDs.“We heard all the public input, and we developed a plan that we believe includes a good deal of that ... that looks at the overall area more comprehensively,” Mr. Voorhis said. “What you’ll notice is the basic plan is almost identical to the original plan. However, this time we are contracted to buy additional lands that would be preserved for open space purposes.”But, as pointed out by several audience members, the proposed land acquisitions would not be entirely altruistic, as DLV Quogue also would transfer the development rights from both properties to the larger parcel that it currently owns. The Kracke property has a development yield of 12 houses, while the Parlato property has a yield of 24—raising the total number of proposed houses in the development from 82 to 118.Without an approved MUPDD, DLV Quogue can build 82 single-family homes as of right on the main property, most of which would be clustered on approximately 1- to 2-acre lots. But the MUPDD would allow the Town Board to add conditions for approval, including environmental regulations, that would not be available if the property were developed according to current zoning. Likewise, the MUPDD requires a community benefit, which can be negotiated as part of the approval process.The Scottsdale, Arizona-based Discovery Land Company took the lead on The Hills project in 2011, shortly after being approached by the East Quogue Group LLC, the original owner of The Hills property and the group that pushed a failed PDD bid in 2009.Last Thursday night’s informational meeting was the first of its kind since the developers received approval from the Town Board in January to submit a final application. During the nearly two-and-a-half-hour meeting, representatives from Discovery Land Company introduced themselves and the work that they’ve done at the 13 other luxury communities they’ve constructed throughout North America, including those in Los Cabos, Mexico, Whitefish, Montana , and Kohala, Hawaii.“Each is respectful and bases itself on the historical and cultural aspects of each community,” Discovery Land partner Steve Adelson said, referring to his firm’s other completed projects. “We feel that there’s an innate spirit in land, so we feel it’s important to capture that—combining the environmental components along with combining the rich cultural history.”The pre-application is also projecting that the luxury home and golf course development would generate almost $3.6 million in new annual school taxes, without adding any students to the East Quogue School District. Still, many in the audience were skeptical as to whether the developers could honor that promise, citing other subdivisions in the hamlet that ended up adding children to the district.Mr. Divita explained that his company’s houses would come with restrictive covenants that would prevent residents from using the homes as their primary residences, and also restrict the amount of time they could spend in the homes during fall, winter and spring months. These restrictions would be monitored by those who manage the property year-round on behalf of the company. Mr. Adelson also noted that a condition of the deeds on the houses would prevent them from being rented out by their owners.Mr. Divita also offered up a bevy of potential community benefits that could be added to the final PDD application, which has not yet been filed with the town, including the installation of sidewalks along Lewis Road to allow children to walk to school more safely, an on-site wastewater treatment facility for the new development and sponsoring a comprehensive study of the troubled Weesuck Creek watershed.Donna Lanzetta, the president of the East Quogue Chamber of Commerce and a staunch advocate for The Hills, said the meeting gave the community an opportunity to see how open the developers are addressing their questions and￼http://olive.pressnewsgroup.com/Olive/ODE/SouthamptonWest/PrintComponentView.htm Page 2 of 43/2/14, 2:02 PMconcerns. Her organization helped coordinate the informational forum, which was moderated by East Quogue Elementary School Principal Robert Long and Frank Costanza, the editor of The Southampton Press Western Edition.“We’re just beginning the process of talking about some things, community benefits that will come out of this development,” Ms. Lanzetta said. “I think, in the long run, it’s going to be good for our community. I really do believe that.”

Ms. Lanzetta is a real estate broker.... She must be offering her opinion without any consideration to her personal self interests - right...?"
Jul 27, 16 10:12 PM

Save the tax payers money.Maybe, after the Town denies the MEGA rezoning they thought they would get - it'll stay unbuilt and on the tax rolls for years."
Aug 5, 16 4:05 PM

I couldn't say it better.

"
Aug 5, 16 4:06 PM

The Town Board and their consultants are doing exactly what they should be doing - carefully examining the request for re-zoning. It's a process that will work its way to a rejection. It's not a Republican verses Democrat affair. It's about our neighborhood!

At an appropriate time - the Board will turn down this wildly aggressive and outrageous application for the biggest zoning change in Southampton Town's history.

It's 5 or 6 years since the area was up-zoned to 5 acres per home. This is the most protected area in the Town. This Town Board - different from the last Board - just voted for a moratorium on considering any new PDD's (massive zoning changes).

They won't back-tract 25 years of protecting our environment. I'm confidant that Jay and the new people on the Board know what's good for our Town - today and for generations to come. This is not new to Jay. He just said that he's been trying to have this property protected for 10 years.

They won't allow more intensive development in the Pine Barrens and over our single source of drinking water. And, who doesn't know about "Red-Tides", Brown-Tides, etc...

We want to fish, swim and drink the water. "
Aug 6, 16 2:11 PM

I believe someone from Discovery was quoted in a newspaper or magazine saying that they usually out last the environmentalists.

They think we will lose focus.

"Goliath" thinks "David" doesn't live here anymore !!!

"
Aug 6, 16 2:19 PM

The Pines in East Quogue is almost 20 years old. It has about 54 homes built out of 120 building lots.

Extrapolating this suggests that The Hills build out will be in the year 2065 - maybe?"
Aug 7, 16 4:16 PM

I believe in Santa.

I don't believe in the Tooth Fairy.

I believe that the Town Board, as it is now populated, will turn down this request for a MEGA-ZONE-CHANGE. And, in due time."
Aug 7, 16 4:26 PM

And, I think Mr. Glinka and Ms. Scalera will not be returned to the Town Board if they persist in pushing this "dog" along..."
Aug 7, 16 4:30 PM

At the Town Board meeting last Tuesday - Mr. Glinka seems to have been quite disturbed by the developers failing to submit a complete DEIS (for the 4th time). Only problem is he's mad at the public for noticing - not for Kyle Collins getting caught trying to slip the Board a quickie...

Does anyone here detect an odor? Something stinks!

Watch the video of the Town Board meeting online to see his little belligerent twitching act. "
Sep 29, 16 8:05 AM

Roughrider,Where do we look for campaign contributions? Thank you very much."
Oct 4, 16 5:34 PM

Susan Matuszewski of East Quogue said one of her main concerns is the potential impact of chemical pesticides for the golf course, noting that her hometown’s groundwater and bays are already compromised by pollution, most of which can be traced back to residential septic systems.

“We don’t need any more contamination, that’s for sure,” Ms. Matuszewski said. “Discovery Land will monitor what is being put on the golf course—but who is going to monitor Discovery Land?”"
Nov 8, 16 10:39 PM

Geraldine Jack of East Quogue echoed Ms. Matuszewski’s concerns about the types of pesticides that would be applied to the golf course.

“The Hills is a public threat to our community, and it will change the hamlet forever if it goes through,” Ms. Jack said.

"
Nov 8, 16 10:41 PM

“No children in the school is the biggest lie I’ve ever heard,” Al Algieri, president of the East Quogue Civic Association, said as he received loud applause.

“[School Superintendent] Rob Long said any child who walks into the school will be educated.”"
Nov 8, 16 10:43 PM

Let's take the bag of trinkets offered by Discovery Land Company of Arizona - and say the hell with the environment and huge problems we might have to deal with tomorrow. Let's live for today!

TRINKETS being offered as if we're idiots."
Nov 8, 16 11:00 PM

Maybe Anna can speak at the next Town Board meeting - now that she'll have some free time.

Jay - you have her number, yes? Kyle has it - if not.

I'm sure she and her minions will be happy to help... Lotsa money involved. "
Nov 8, 16 11:09 PM

Jay,

"East End voters voted "yes" in a big way to preserving area waterways and open space, voting by a wide margin in favor of a proposition to extend the Community Preservation Fund until 2050 and also, to give towns the ability to utilize 20 percent of those funds for water quality improvements".

Let's keep it going."
Nov 8, 16 11:53 PM

From 27east:

Stop Tampering

The largest unprotected tract of privately held Pine Barrens forest property remaining in Southampton Town is subject to the most egregious planned development district, or PDD, proposed yet. A large preponderance of the town’s approved PDDs have not served the interest of the public. We all agree that there are serious issues with this legislation, and I am pleased these are being addressed with a moratorium.

Unfortunately, this PDD made it in “under the wire.” Here we are left to wonder if this PDD would even be considered under any new legislation. Without a doubt, a great deal of scrutiny is focused on the PDD’s mandated “public benefit.” Consider that the greatest public benefit put forth for the Canoe Place Inn PDD was the inn itself—a for-profit business, something even the current PDD legislation does not acknowledge as a public benefit.

The town failed our community. Let’s make certain this does not happen again. What PDD public benefit could possibly outweigh the right to safe, clean drinking water, and water viable for marine life?

The developer asserts that taking polluted groundwater and filtering it through the golf course to purify it sounds like asking nature to take its course. Nature can only do so much, as evidenced by the state-designated “impaired” state of our bays.

Nature has a much better chance of success with the as of-right zoning. This property’s five-acre zoning was designed to do this—provide sufficient landmass for the effluent from one home to be purified by nature. (Think about that..! One home per 5 acres). Why would we even consider tampering with nature given what is at stake? Stop The Hills!

Bonnie Doyle

Hampton Bays"
Nov 9, 16 11:35 PM

JAY SCHNEIDERMAN - WARNING - DO NOT READ THIS:

I'm sure the developer would like to get it over with too. One way or the other is not a solution. What water will you drink? You can't cook, brush your teeth or shower with bottled water. You can't swim in polluted bay waters or harvest clams or fish either. I will fight to the last minute against this disastrous PDD passing, as should anyone who l ives in this area. There are other ways government can relieve us of taxes and improve our school and town.By Taz (53), East Quogue on Nov 11, 16 10:27 AM

NOR THIS:

Discovery's offer is a con. There is no way that it can prevent the children of purchasers from being enrolled in the E. Quogue school, particularly since its overt intent in limiting the duration of occupancy is to deprive those children of their right to a public education. The first time that this covenant is challenged in court it will be struck down.

This proposal is a shameful mixture of lies and bribes. One can only hope that the town board, atypically, will deny it.By highhatsize (2914), East Quogue on Nov 11, 16 10:18 AM

JAY - Don't read this either:

Again and again I'm telling you, the developer is bluffing about going ahead as of right if the PDD isn't approved. Look at all the time and money they're spending to push this application, and look at all the "extras" they're offering if the PDD passes.

That tells you how much more the PDD is worth to them than as of right development. Conversely, it tells you how much less as of right is worth to them than the PDD.

Why is that? Because there's no market for so many luxury homes in the East Quogue woods without a golf course, not at the price point this developer wants.

So don't let the developer use the as of right alternative as a threat, because it's just not worth it for them to go that route. They're bluffing, pure and simple.By Turkey Bridge (1505), Quiogue on Nov 12, 16 5:47 PM

As the environmentalist attorney said at last nights meeting - "Why substitute the developers 'science' for the Town's science".

The Cornell study (done at this site) told the Town they could protect our drinking water and run-off to the bays by limiting pesticides, fertilizers, carcinogenic chemicals, etc - by up zoning the entire area to 5 acres per home. The Town adopted their recommendations!!!

This became the 'Aquifer Protection Overlay District'.

This was done to limit fertilized turf. The developer wants to add 3 to 4,000,000 sq. feet of turf..!

The developer - by already existing zoning laws - must set aside at least 65% of this land as contiguous open space.

Why play "let's make a deal" and jeopardize future our waters for future generations?

I think they should keep their trinkets, parking lot asphalt, and these other short term - short sighted gifts - that they're offering all over Town - and build what the property is zoned for or sell it to the Community Preservation Fund.

East Quogue and Southampton Town are not for sale.

"
Dec 7, 16 9:34 AM

Every large development built in the Town of Southampton in the last 25 years had to be CLUSTERED on less land than the zonecalls for: If zoning called for 1 home per 5 acres === what must be built is 1 home and 4 acres of open space (in these developments).

The current law says: subdivisions must be clustered and provide (at least) 65% contiguous open space.

These laws that are currently on there books today.

"
Dec 7, 16 9:47 AM

The Best & The Brighest - all in a devious scheme to harm East Quogue & Southampton:

The Southampton Town web site shows that Shinnecock Hills golf course takes up about 229 acresAtlantic Golf Club course covers about 177 acresGolf At The Bridge golf course uses about 230 acresBut, Sebonack's pays taxes on 238 acres and Mr. Hissey insists that the course only covers abt. 90 acres - same as Mr. Hissey claims "The Hills" is utilizing.Amazing, yes?

The last time I played golf on a 87 acre golf course - it was 9 HOLES...!

We need to build more golf courses over our water supply. Golf courses, we've recently been advised by a developer, will remove cancer causing and shell fish killing chemicals from ground water supplies...

This issue is a BIG DEAL for this developer. If his acreage is "off" the project as proposed does not pass the minimal requirement of 65% open space - the LEGALLY OBLIGATED MINIMUM.

His lawyer, Wayne Bruyn, does not agree with him - and said a few years ago "golf courses require 175 to 200 acres".

Dr. Michael Hurdzan, esteemed member of the American Society of Golf Course Architects, says “a full size par 72 course would need 120-200 acres. This assumes, of course, only usable land which does not allow for wetlands, restricted areas, or land NOT easily made part of the golf area.”

The State Department of Environmental Conservation temporarily closed approximately 1,400 acres in western Shinnecock Bay to shellfishing on Thursday, May 4, after a potentially dangerous marine biotoxin was found in mussels.

The DEC said the closure comes after mussels collected from biotoxin monitoring sites in the bay by both the state agency and Suffolk County Department of Health Services tested positive for saxitoxin, a neurotoxin that, if consumed by people, could lead to paralytic shellfish poisoning.

The ban specifically targets the harvesting of carnivorous gastropods, such as whelks, conchs and moon snails, as well filter-feeding shellfish, including clams, oysters, mussels and scallops. In a press release, the DEC said shellfish and carnivorous gastropods can accumulate the biotoxin and, when eaten, can cause humans to become sick.

The closure area includes the portion of Shinnecock Bay that lies west of Pine Neck Point in East Quogue and east of the Post Lane Bridge in Quogue.

The DEC also on Thursday banned the harvesting of carnivorous gastropods from Deep Hole Creek, Halls Creek and a section of Great Peconic Bay, all in Southold Town.

The DEC said it will continue to monitor the situation in Shinnecock Bay over the next few weeks before considering reopening the area to shellfishing.

Harvesters seeking the status of the closure can call (631) 444-0480."
May 5, 17 4:08 PM

I would wager that Jay will vote down the HILLS. He is very smart & he has been on the east end of Long Island for a very long time. He "gets it".

Why would any honest politician or knowledgable person allow more chemicals to be introduced when EVERYONE is talking about cleaning up our waters!

Steve Bellone, Bridget Fleming, Ed Romaine and many other east end public administrators know that if we don't have clean water - we will not have a healthy business environment and a safe place for our children to swim, play and grow up."
May 12, 17 11:02 PM

In this newspaper - on April 27th, 2017 - an article quoted Dr. Christopher Gobler.

"A newly submitted report, researched by one of the East End’s most well-respected water quality experts, challenges the science used and conclusions reached in the draft environmental impact statement filed by the Arizona developer pushing for a zoning change that would permit the construction of a luxury golf resort in East Quogue.In his highly anticipated report filed last month with Southampton Town, Dr. Chris Gobler, a marine science professor at Stony Brook Southampton, also states that the proposed 118-home, 18-hole private golf course being pursued by Discovery Land Company—dubbed “The Hills at Southampton”—would add more nitrogen to the environment than if the firm was allowed to develop the nearly 600 acres according to its current zoning. The land owned by Discovery Land currently carries 5-acre residential zoning, the most restrictive in the municipality".

The best part of this is that Dr. Gobler is not on anyones payroll - as opposed to most of the other commentators on this subject.

Why would the town allow a developer to add 4,000,000 sq. ft. of turf in the most protected zoning part of the town. I believe that most of the board members will not allow this.

Remember - this project was allowed to move ahead by Anna Throne-Holst and Brad Bender - in cahoots with the Republicans on the Town Board.

Where are they today? Anna is in Europe and Bender is in the slammer. Where will Mr. Glinka be next year? In the back of a Bridgehampton National Bank branch."
May 12, 17 11:19 PM