My music consciousness was born in the 1990s, and found its foothold first in punk rock, then in grunge. This week’s guest, Patty Schemel, was the drummer for Hole, and was there for all of it, in the center, a driving force behind the entire scene. Patty has since written a memoir of her experiences and the addictions and recoveries that wove through all of them, Hit So Hard: A Memoir and there’s also a great documentary about Patty’s life by the same name. Patty also plays with the band Upset who enlivening and intense.

Patty and I discuss the grunge era, misogyny in music, whether or not mosh pits still exist, (both of us) growing up queer in the punk rock scene, what makes for a good drummer, feeling isolated at the punk show and the gay bar, how addiction is connected to the closet, how all songs are about the same thing now, what it means to be born with alcoholism, what secrets can do to us, the time Patty accidentally ended up in a gay scene, and that time I dragged Susan Sontag into one of mine.