All right, I figured it's time to do a write-up. I went 4-1-1 in Swiss (ID'ing into Top 8) and won in the first round to finish 5-1-1. Here is the list I ran, and I will explain some of the more non-standard card decisions:

I suppose I'll start at the maindeck.The goal was to metagame a little better against the top decks of Legacy, which didn't work out extremely well, but was fine. Card choices:

- 2 Humility over Wrath of God/Day of Judgment: This card is extremely strong, and arguably better in the 4cc removal slot than Wrath or Day. It shuts down a lot of the bigger creatures in the format, and problematic ones (Qasali Pridemage, Trygon Predator, etc), giving an unfair advantage with your Factories. It's also stronger, in my opinion, because its effect is continuous, something that its counterparts cannot claim. I was never a fan of this card alongside Wrath or Day, until...

- 2 Firespout as the board sweeper of choice: Was the theoretical choice for nuking stuff post-Humility, Merfolk (didn't work out since I didn't draw any in my match), or any non-Tarmogoyf/non-KotR creature in Zoo. This seems to be a better choice, and is a turn "faster" than the previous decisions.

- 3 Lightning Helix as additional spot removal: I actually didn't make the conscious decision to put this in until about 3 AM the night before, when we were doing some last minute testing. I avoided this card when I played at a local weekly on Wednesday because of how much it pushes you to find RW instead of focusing on the UW core of the deck and using Red as a true tertiary color. However, in testing against Zoo, it proved to be incredibly efficient, and also helped out the Counterbalance 2cc flips a lot, as pre-Meandeck there were merely seven 2cc cards (3 Standstill, 4 Counterbalance) available.

- 1 Karakas, 1 Tolaria West in the mana base: Tolaria West seems to make sense here, acting as Dust Bowl #2, Engineered Explosives #4, and so forth. Karakas was mainly there for the recent surge in Iona decks, but Survival and Reanimator, and I didn't want to be caught off guard. Having "two" copies of Karakas in the main is also a strong decision for decks packing Marit Lage tokens as well. I also like it to take the trigger shield off of Kira, Great Glass-Spinner, and bounce Gaddock Teeg to make sure a 4cc+ noncreature spell resolved (cough, Planeswalkers). I expected the former (Iona) to be there in heavy numbers with the Bant Survival shell. (I would not run into a situation where I needed it, however).

The Sideboard is fairly self explanatory:

- 2 Aura of Silence: again, a continuous effect that can sit on the battlefield and become extra disruption. It helps in the Stax matchup, and of course, the ANT matchup, giving serious problems with their artifact mana and ability to use it.

- 2 Faerie Macabre: This card was recommended to me by gustha, and I endorsed it greatly, replacing a Crucible of Worlds & Relic of Progenitus in my Sideboard with it. It's great against Reanimator and also a nice tool for Aggro Loam (take away a Loam, Wasteland, etc) or Dredge (take away Bridges or Dredgers). Overall, I didn't need to use these barely at all today, but they were nice to have.

- 4 Counterbalance: Just a note, the reason that my draw package looks like what it is.

All right, basic premise of the day. I get there right as the store is opening up, and I'm feeling really nervous about this list. We'd tested plenty of matchups, but still, I'm running really low on sleep in the past few days because of school. I take a deep breath, go to the first set of pairings, and...

1) Donald Thorsen, "Threatener.dec"

Don is known as the Threatener in these parts, mainly linking to an incident stemming from the August Meandeck Open, which I won't go into details about. Anyhow, the Goblin deck that he's running is mainly geared towards creatures with a horri-bad combo of Goblin aggro shell + Bazaar Trader + "Threaten" effects, but unfortunately not designed to work against Landstill. Don gets me down to 15 with Piledrivers (Lackey still gets StP'ed) before I drop a Humility, cast a Firespout, and an Elspeth to seal things up. Game 2 follows in similar fashion, with Firespout and plow effects clearing the way under a Humility while a Factory gets there. Since I saw the list ahead of time, Word of Seizing is in there for Planeswalkers. Lame. Regardless, it's a good warmup.

This is actually the matchup that I'm dreading, and I actually saw Peter sleeving up Islands, Vials, and a Tormod's Crypt earlier during deck registration. Doesn't take a genius to figure that one out. My heart sinks when I lose the roll, and of course, a turn 1 Aether Vial comes out, and I have no answers for it in a hand that I had to mull to 6 to ensure I had consistent mana. Things take a sour turn when a turn 2 Standstill comes out, and I lose the counter war over it. It all goes downhill from here, as I play and stick a Humility, but am unable to find a Firespout to reset the board for my guys. I believe I do lose a fetchland to Stifle, and of course Wasteland seals the deal.

I choose to play and keep a hand with 2 red sources and 2 Lightning Helix. I play a land and pass the turn, and he does not have turn 1 vial. He does, however, play a ton of Lords, and I slowly find myself overwhelmed with Merfolk. Peter is able to land a vial, get Lords in play with 2 Mutavault. When I finally get to a Fact or Fiction, I try to dig for one more turn for some answers. It's complete garbage. I take an irrelevant pile of cards, try to EE some of his guys away (I believe 2x Cursecatcher, 2x Vial), but he's got plenty of Merfolk left on the board. Game over. After lethal, Peter reveals his hand I see Spell Pierces and other friendly stuff. I swear, when I go to bed tonight, that's what will be coming up. :cry:

I wasn't happy about this matchup in general, as it reminded me of the incredible monkey on my back that I have against this deck in sanctioned play (I'm like, what? 1-X against it?), but Pete's a cool guy and it made the match not too terrible. My deck, however, decided to take a huge shit on me, as I never saw any Firespouts or Red Blasts in either game to at least fight the uphill battle, while ironically having the mana to play them. Usually it's the other way around. Go me. I'm a little dejected at this point, but whatever, the show's not over yet.

2-2 games, 1-1 matches.

3) Sigmund Ausfresser, ANT (with Ill-Gotten Gains alternate win)

I actually manage to stick around after my swift ass-kicking handed to me by Merfolk and see my buddy Will take on ANT. They wind up drawing (yeah, imagine that) after time is reached. I take a seat across from the ANT player, and introduce myself. I know this is a rough game 1, but with the sideboarding plan for this matchup, I have a chance in the other games. I keep a sketchy hand containing a Factory and a Standstill, hoping to draw into a little more countermagic. It doesn't work. He breaks Standstill with a Duress, and taking a Force of Will, and the Duresses again. I lose my only other piece of countermagic (rest of hand was garbage), and he's able to cast Ad Nauseam, draw a bunch of cards, play a bunch of cards. Tendrils kill. Typical of ANT first game.

So, as Sigmund is playing his first game, he is doing life calculations with Ad Nauseam, and he ponders out loud about using IGG. I took that as either a well-done fake out or a little carelessness. I took no chances. As a result I boarded out the draw package, which might have been a bad decision. I keep 3 Swords in the deck instead of taking out the Standstills because I did see a Tropical Island the first game, and Xantid Swarm could be present. Also, Dark Confidant if he's running SDT (which he is). I open up the game with 2 Lightning Helix, a Spell Snare and the necessary lands to cast them. I take a chance, dropping a first turn Strand into a Tundra and passing the turn. He fetches, and as predicted, Xantid Swarm comes out. On my turn, I play a Mountain, Helix the damn thing before I get covered in bees, go to 22. He fetches, but does not have another land to play. On his turn he drops Carpet of Flowers, and thus has some extra mana to invest. Yikes, didn't see that one, but I know of the card. I Helix him again at the end step. He still doesn't have quite enough to combo out, so we play draw-go for a while, and I draw a Counterbalance and play it blind. He decides to test it with a Duress, and I flip a Land over. He takes something I didn't write down, and I draw the land, play and pass the turn. On his turn, he casts a Lotus Petal, which meets SDT from Counterbalance (gee, thanks), and then LED, then cracks the petal, Cabal Ritual into... hellbent Infernal Tutor. Fuck. But wait, he makes a major misplay, as he doesn't maintain priority to crack his LED for mana. It doesn't look good for him, but he simply chains the Infernal Tutor into another, and repeats the process. He manages to resolve Ad Nauseam, and reveals an Ad Nauseam at 13 life to go to 8. He looks worried, but when he gets to 4 he stops, as a Tendrils or IGG will kill him here. Not a lot of cards drawn. He wants to find an out to get Tendrils, but he is reminded of the ugly fact that the only way to get the mana is the Carpet of Flowers and then Mystical Tutor --> draw with a SDT, when I have a 1cc on top. Storm count resets to 0, we go to g3.

I keep the same plan, and I open up a hand with Brainstorm, Lightning Helix, 2 Land, Counterbalance. He doesn't actually Duress me in this case, and I'm able to land a blind Counterbalance again on my second turn. He Mysticals in response to the Counterbalance, which I allow to resolve. He finds a Cabal Ritual, and on his turn, he plays Dark Ritual, to which I flip a land (sigh). He chains that into a Cabal Ritual for Ad Nauseam, and I'm not feeling good right now. He goes all the way to 3 life, but I notice that while he has enough spells to raise the Storm Count to 10+, everything he's drawn is an artifact source. Without a way to get rid of Counterbalance, he has no outs. He's tapped out. After thinking for quite some time, he passes the turn. I'm gripping a Helix.

4-3 games, 2-1 matches.

4) Dan Musser, Zoo

I'm feeling a little more giddy due to the lack of sleep, and I'm finding myself getting a little slap happy. As a joke, I tell him I hope he has the worst hand possible when I cut his deck, and that's pretty much the theme of the game. Dan gets mana flooded like no other, drawing and having out 15 of his ~20 or so lands in this game, as I chain Standstills (I chained all three the first game) into a Humility to stabilize at 11 life. From there, I'm able to ensue beats with a Mishra's Factory, and when I play my last Standstill (I believe), we go to game 2.

Now it's my turn to get mana flooded, as even with SDT I see nothing but land when I spin. I take early damage from a single Kird Ape, until I find a fetchland, spin top, and Lightning Helix it to get back some of that life. I swords a Goyf (putting him to 25 life), and lay a Standstill, hoping to chain into some business. I do, and I'm able to pull off a Relic + Firespout trick to clear the board again, but I have no kill conditions in sight. My notes here read that I had Dan at 30 life at one point in time, while using a Dust Bowl to clear his nonbasics. The only major misplay I had this game was to use Ajani's Helix on a Goyf, and then Firespout the board, growing the thing to a 6/7. I lose Ajani in the process, but I find a Path to Exile for the thing and it's fine. My last Dust Bowl activation on his Taiga get a Fireblast in response, but I dig for 2 Lightning Helix to stabilize, play Elspeth, and swing for 4 each turn a Solider Token.

6-3 games, 3-1 matches.

5) Jacob Branstetter, Zoo

It's getting to the late portion of the tournament, where people are dropping out and the Top 8 looks a lot more clear. Jacob and I are both 3-1 and a win here will usher a guy in the Top 8, where the loser has pretty much no chance. Since we're teammates, we make sure there are no hard feelings, and get ready to play. I keep a hand with heavy removal but not a while lot and we're off to play. I tested against the deck last night, so with the knowledge that there are no Price of Progress, I'm much more comfortable fetching out nonbasics to fix mana very quickly, and as a result, I am able to survive the early blitzing into two Standstills, which I chain into a third. The bin is literally chock full of threats when I Force his last Knight of the Reliquary, land an Elspeth, make a token, and take control of the game from there.

Boarding: Same as Round 4.

Game 2 starts off as a repeat of game 1, except for a Sulfuric Vortex coming late in the game when we are both low on life. I'm able to get "free" removal for :w: with Swords to Plowshares, and I start beating with Mishra's Factory down to 6 life, while I'm at 5. On his turn he goes to 4, and passes it to me. I'm at 3 life. I draw an EE! I make it for 3, attack with Factory, and... blow it. Major. Punt. Jacob rips a Fireblast off the top, and that's it. I could have won the matchup at the beginning of his upkeep. Between this and game 3, I take a few deep breaths, and try to hold myself together. I'm noticing in these past couple of rounds that I'm making some terrible mistakes, and try to focus. Game 3 I open with (still memorable hand): Mountain, Tundra, Swords, Swords, Path, Helix, Helix. Keep. I'm able to deal with all of his threats, except for the Sylvan Library he draws. I have no outs to the card available, and I have no library manipulation. When I finally find an EE to blow it up, he's attacked me twice with a huge Knight of the Reliquary, and I'm gripping some removal for it. When I finally Path it, Sulfuric Vortex comes down and I know the pressure has been increased dramatically in this matchup. I see my life go from 13 --> 11 --> 9 --> 7 as I am able to StP all of his threats for free, and he's taking damage too from 15 --> 13 --> as well. I still haven't used my Helixes yet, and there was never a time that I was more glad for that card to be in my hand. When he makes a second Sulfuric Vortex, I go to 3 life at my upkeep, pray that he doesn't topdeck a burn spell, and double Helix him on my turn. No response, and I give Jacob a huge hug for an incredibly dramatic match.

8-4 games, 4-1 matches.

6) Joe George, ID.

Joe is playing Bant Survival, and has the same record as me. So we just lay back and wait for the results.

8-4 games, 4-1-1 matches.

The rankings come out at the end of the round, and I'm 5th in the standings. Joe doesn't want to draw so early so we'll be playing it out for Top 4 at least. I check the bracket, and I'm playing... teammate Mark Walker with Poxless Pox. I tested this matchup the previous night as well. Not so fun, as he has a variety of goodies in the deck, including Crucibles (duh), 8 discard spells (12 post-board), and Extirpates. A lot of Extirpates.

T8 Pairing 1) Mark Walker, Poxless Pox.

As our entire team crowded around us to see the results, he wins the die roll and I'm surely expecting a Thoughtseize --> Extirpate. It doesn't come. I fetch for a blue source to try to trap him with a Spell Snare, and I handle a Smallpox just fine. Mark Walker doesn't draw anything relevant for a while, just minor disruption in the form of Hymns & Duress, and I cannot remember if I am Extirpated or not. Anyhow, at this point in time I'm able to use Top to hide an Ajani, an Elspeth, leading to a flying 4/4 Soldier token. When Abyssal Persecutor (yes, I didn't mistype) comes down, I have a Path for it, swing in with a 4/4 Soldier Token, and Double Helix + Ajani's ability to win the game.

As I'm boarding, I notice that Faerie Macabre could be good at dodging the Extirpates if I can protect my removal correctly. I take out Fact or Fiction (yikes!) in favor of them. Even with GY protection (I judiciously use Relic of Progenitus and Faerie Macabre when possible), Swords to Plowshares still gets eaten by a discard spell --> Extirpate. I had already StP'ed a Persecutor and a Tombstalker both to put Mark Walker at higher than 30 life and out of reach. Not a fun time, so as the Persecutor comes down for 6 a turn, I topdeck an Elspeth (worthless) and promptly scoop. I make the decision to put Fact or Fiction back in the deck as I am shuffling for g3. I open with a card that I was hoping for throughout this matchup: Humility. And along with it, Brainstorm, Tundra, Strand, Island, Spell Snare, and Dust Bowl. Seems okay. I start with a Strand into a Tundra, ready to hide Humility from Thoughtseize if it should ever happen. It doesn't come turn 1, so I think it's safe. I lay another Tundra, Brainstorm to see what's on top, and I find a Plains and other goodies on top to cast Humility. I put Humility 2nd from the top, so I don't topdeck it until I actually need it. Things turn for the worst when Smallpox happens in consecutive turns, followed by a Bloodghast.I do draw the Humility, but can't do anything regarding casting it. A Hymn to Tourach comes in, and I have a Spell Snare to protect my bomb. Finally, I rip the Karakas off the top, cast Humility, and it was downhill from there, playing a war of attrition with Elspeth (token generator ftw!) and Ajani. Persecutor comes down as a 1/1, and it doesn't matter anymore. We shake hands, get a team hug in, and I'm looking for the next round.

10-5 games, 5-1-1 matches.

So, the aftermath was that the top 4 features Stax vs. UWr Landstill, and Zoo vs. Merfolk. I contemplate for about 5 seconds in my head requesting to play it out, in case Zoo pulls out the win against Merfolk, but I'm ready to be with my friends for the night, and we all split the prize. I split my share with Mark Walker, my teammate, and we get $67 a piece (what we would have gotten for splitting T8), and I'm happy with that. It's never fun playing your teammates in a tournament, but making sure neither one loses out on a lot of cash in the Top 8 is always a good thing.

Props:
- Hanging out with teammates, and seeing friends, especially the ones from the Wadsworth area, since we have Legacy down here now and no longer make the drive on Wednesdays :laugh:
- Producing some positive results against ANT & Zoo
- Firespout, for being awesome when I drew it
- Landstill for being resilient and churning out to a T8
- BD's Mongolian BBQ, for having kick-ass meals and a good atmosphere

Slops:
- My superior draw skills against Merfolk
- Playing your teammates in matchups
- Not getting to use my Tolaria West / Karakas package
- Steve Menendian, for skipping out on BD's after the tournament (pansy :tongue:)
- The computational chemistry lab report that is due in 5 hours, of which I only have 20 pages written.

General thoughts on the list:

- In Swiss, I wasn't a fan of Humility (minus the Goblins matchup), and it doesn't seem to be a fit for every deck. It does still steal a lot of g1's and I stand by my decision to board them out against Zoo, which worked out to clear two more slots for the 3rd Firespout & extra Relic for Goyf & KotR. It shined against Abyssal Persecutor Pox, but am I really going to see that every tournament? :wink: There are times where I wish I had just a Path to Exile in my hand instead, but the slots will have to be tested.

- I really missed Decree of Justice, for which I had to cut the 1-of in the maindeck in favor of making 3 Lightning Helix more consistent. It sometimes feels odd playing without such a powerful card, especially when you can Cycle --> get Tokens --> Stabilize or if you're up, play an Elspeth next turn to start the 4/4 harassment. Really changes the tide of a game, but that explosiveness wasn't necessarily there the whole day. Speaking of Helix...

- I'll give it a shot in this list. I hated this card up until last night at 3 AM (reasons stated), but it did indeed help lock out the matchup against Zoo by providing just a little more consistent 2cc cards on the top for Counterbalance and whatnot. It also saved me in both Zoo matchups by either keeping me out of kill range, or by acting as an alternate (and faster) kill condition. It also helped a lot against ANT.

- I'm still a little sad that I didn't get to see Iona, or as a matter of fact, any Legendary creatures today. I stated on Wednesday, I played against Mono-B Pox (not the version I just played against), and when my opponent went all in with a Tomb of Urami token, I was able to Transmute Tolaria West --> Karakas to clear the board. Never got to see utility like that. Would have been better off with Factory #4 and Plains #3, but you can't be too safe, I guess.

All right, that's about it. Looking forward to the next Meandeck, for sure. Until next time,

--M

FredMaster

02-22-2010, 04:51 AM

Great job on the finish. I share your feelings/nightmares on the Merfolk matchup. The worst part about is that I don't only keep loosing to it with Landstill but with Stormcombo, too :/

I'm not sold at all on the Karakas though. You really want a solid manabase (many basics) and that card clearly keeps you from it.

One thing I didn't understand was the end of your second pairing against Zoo:

5) Jacob Branstetter, Zoo
I see my life go from 13 --> 11 --> 9 --> 7 as I am able to StP all of his threats for free, and he's taking damage too from 15 --> 13 --> catching up to me. I still haven't used my Helixes yet, and there was never a time that I was more glad for that card to be in my hand. When he makes a second Sulfuric Vortex, I go to 3 life at my upkeep, pray that he doesn't topdeck a burn spell, and double Helix him on my turn. No response, and I give Jacob a huge hug for an incredibly dramatic match.

If I understood it correctly he has 2 Vortex out and is on 13 life. You are down on 3 life, double Helix him (so that he goes down to 7) and pass the turn. During his upkeep he looses another 4 (so he's at 3 now) draws nothing relevant and scoop.
Why didn't he just pass the turn and watch you loose to 2 Sulfuric Vortex? Did he forgot that you don't gain life from Helix?

Mark Sun

02-22-2010, 05:00 AM

Great job on the finish. I share your feelings/nightmares on the Merfolk matchup. The worst part about is that I don't only keep loosing to it with Landstill but with Stormcombo, too :/

I'm not sold at all on the Karakas though. You really want a solid manabase (many basics) and that card clearly keeps you from it.

One thing I didn't understand was the end of your second pairing against Zoo:

If I understood it correctly he has 2 Vortex out and is on 13 life. You are down on 3 life, double Helix him (so that he goes down to 7) and pass the turn. During his upkeep he looses another 4 (so he's at 3 now) draws nothing relevant and scoop.
Why didn't he just pass the turn and watch you loose to 2 Sulfuric Vortex? Did he forgot that you don't gain life from Helix?

Yeah, Karakas was a last-minute idea, and it will weaken some matchups (Merfolk!). From what I've been told, Landstill is 20/80 versus Reanimator, so I needed something to give me a chance here. I agree though about the consistency of the mana base. I also hate Tolaria West, but I couldn't run 2x Karakas.

About the Zoo matchup, I should have been more specific. I just have 2 columns in my notes, so I only change the life total when something happens, and I didn't arrange them in the correct chronological order. I have, 15 --> 13 --> 11 --> 9 --> 3, so chances are there is a Factory beating to help the cause, because he drops the second Vortex at 9 life, I double Helix him to 3, and the game is over.

Yeah, actually now that I re-read that, I sound like an idiot. Sorry, it was 3 AM when I typed this, there's a reason why sane people go to bed before this time :eek:. Edited the OP.

klaus

02-22-2010, 08:49 AM

Boarding out Standstills against Merfolk is a nobrainer to me (even more so without Decree) - why would you keep them in?

markbris

02-22-2010, 11:10 AM

your list is 61 cards as I counted it, is that correct?

Mark Sun

02-22-2010, 12:05 PM

Boarding out Standstills against Merfolk is a nobrainer to me (even more so without Decree) - why would you keep them in?

Hey klaus. Yeah, after a small amount of sleep I'm starting to think I messed this one up pretty badly. This is actually the first time playing in a tournament with this list, so I wasn't used to the lack of Decree of Justice at all in the main. I usually try to play somewhat aggressively against Merfolk, not so much this time.

your list is 61 cards as I counted it, is that correct?

Yup. (I have a number right after "Maindeck") :tongue:

walkerm

02-22-2010, 02:07 PM

First of all, it looks like you typed my name once and then ctrl+C ctrl+V it the rest of the match description :P
Second, the key play you didn't mention in our match (besides the clearly correct and smart play of hiding humility) was when you drew both ajani and elspeth on what I believe were consecutive turns the turn AFTER I duressed you with extirpate in hand. An elspeth in hand there is probably gg for you, which plays into what I wrote about the Pox deck on the results thread- it's pretty swingy.

Mark Sun

02-22-2010, 02:10 PM

First of all, it looks like you typed my name once and then ctrl+C ctrl+V it the rest of the match description :P
Second, the key play you didn't mention in our match (besides the clearly correct and smart play of hiding humility) was when you drew both ajani and elspeth on what I believe were consecutive turns the turn AFTER I duressed you with extirpate in hand. An elspeth in hand there is probably gg for you, which plays into what I wrote about the Pox deck on the results thread- it's pretty swingy.

True. Well, within our team, as demonstrated this weekend, we *have* to use last names to distinguish :tongue:

Agree on it being a incredibly swingy matchup, I didn't metagame against it of course, which was the goal of this deck, and I almost paid for it (g2 was a blowout after you took StP). In my defense, I did have a Sensei's Divining Top out g3.

RogueMTG

02-22-2010, 02:33 PM

Congratz on the finish!

I would think of Humility as taking a win condition slot instead of a sweeper slot. I mean, it's synergistic with everything your deck does (admittedly much better with DoJ), and it just wins you the game against everything that's not Storm Combo.

The comparison I would draw vs Wrath in your list is Firespout. It seemed like a lot of the time in order to get value out of running Firespout you had to pull tricks with either having Humility out (winning away, plus you resolved a 2WW spell), or blowing up a Relic (4 mana anyway).

I get that Firespout can help sweep early against Merfolk (if you draw it), but most of the time it seemed like Wrath of God would just have been better?

Mark Sun

02-22-2010, 04:00 PM

Congratz on the finish!

I would think of Humility as taking a win condition slot instead of a sweeper slot. I mean, it's synergistic with everything your deck does (admittedly much better with DoJ), and it just wins you the game against everything that's not Storm Combo.

The comparison I would draw vs Wrath in your list is Firespout. It seemed like a lot of the time in order to get value out of running Firespout you had to pull tricks with either having Humility out (winning away, plus you resolved a 2WW spell), or blowing up a Relic (4 mana anyway).

I get that Firespout can help sweep early against Merfolk (if you draw it), but most of the time it seemed like Wrath of God would just have been better?

Thanks, Ben. :smile:

Humility was fine, but it wasn't as great as I remember it (I ran it as a 1-of when I played Cunning Wishstill this past summer) being, and I actually lost to Merfolk with Humility on the table. I sided it out against Zoo twice for another Firespout (and Relic #3). Speaking of, about Firespout, one reason I liked it better than Wrath of God/Day of Judgment was the fact that one the draw, against Zoo for example, if you are holding a removal spell for Goyf or do not see one, you are likely to put more than a couple of dudes in the bin on your third turn, if they want to get a quick start or try to race in as much damage as possible. I 3-for-1'ed one of the Zoo players on my third turn, hitting a Spell Snare on a Goyf --> Drop Nacatl and Lavamancer. Cannot remember what game that was.

The critical toughness in this format is 4, and unfortunately that's not the case for Zoo, who has a lot of 3 toughness or less in Kird Ape/Loam Lion, Wild Nacatl, Qasali Pridemage, and Lavamancer. I held back a Firespout unless I needed it (EE was fine anyways as a sweeper on t3) post-board so I could take the Knight of the Reliquary and Goyf, temporarily shrink both those guys, and replace Relic when it cycles. With SDT in play, you can find Firespout if you need it, and I chose to use it very strategically, trading EE/Spot removal early (or capitalize on a monster Firespout), and as soon as they landed a Knight, if I had a chance to pull off the Relic trick, I would do it.

The other reason I like Firespout is how it pairs up with Elspeth. Giving a token flying is actually pretty nice without any Decree of Justice to make more guys, as losing that token to, say, Wrath of God is a couple of turns setback. So if I had a chance to do some major chunks of damage, I didn't hesitate to activate --> Firespout all dudes below. I think it worked pretty well, and it's pretty nice to round out the curve for Counterbalance post-board as well.

Bardo

02-23-2010, 08:02 PM

Great report and nicely done.

On the counter-package, would you do 4x Snare again or some combo of Snares and CSpells? I mean, the difference between U and UU is huge (no sarcasm intended) and there's a ton of menacing stuff at 2cc. Were you fine with FoW as your only hard counter?

I'm pretty sure you mentioned cutting an EE (which honestly seems a bit overkill with the rest of your removal). If you cut an EE, would you cut the Ruins? That would let you run another Volc, Island or Strand.

About the CB boarding plan, did that work out in testing like you planned? Pre-board, your curve is...

0: 27
1: 15
2: 6
3: 2
4: 7
5: 4

... which might just be the strangest CB curve I've seen. Seems like you totally underrepresented at CMC 2 with too much at 4.

Maybe I'm too dogmatic about my approach to CB in Landstill, but I always try for a more a balanced CMC 1, 2 and 3 (ideally, 13-15, 14-16, 3-6 or thereabouts). Anyway, I'm having a hard time seeing CB working out well (in this deck) for anything other than Tendrils since you're mainly worried about 0, 1 and -- I guess -- 4). Curious about your experience.

Mark Sun

02-24-2010, 01:04 AM

I still need to test and do some tweaking with Counterbalance in this list, and I agree about the curve. The thing about Landstill is, it's very difficult (as I found out) to get the same CB-Top protection that the UG CounterTop lists do. Lightning Helix made that a lot better when it was introduced less than nine hours before the tournament began, forcing me to make some hasty cuts but having it work out in the end.

Its inclusion is mainly on the principle that this is Landstill (ignore the cheap Sparta reference), and card advantage should never be an issue for it. That combined with Landstill's necessity for a powerful suite of removal makes all those cards (virtually) dead against Combo. When I played my UWb build (Geoff's build), I found that +3 Negate, +1 CS post board had a rough time dealing with Combo, and the Extirpates I played with/tested with for a while were too swingy (hitting Mystical Tutor, etc at the upkeep). The same idea lies in Zoo's small, efficient creatures, and the fact that every removal spell they play can take care of your Mishra's Factory, causing a huge setback when you need so much mana.

This is where Counterbalance comes in. Yes, you're correct, the 2cc slot is very weak (10 cards post-board for Zoo, 7 cards post-board for Combo). But regardless, having Counterbalance catches you up in the card advantage battle, able to counter the Artifact mana & Ritual / Tutor / SDT / Chant of combo, while also serving double duty to shut off Zoo's 1cc creatures and protect your Factories/Soldiers from removal. None of what I mentioned necessarily requires 2cc, but is helped by having those on top. This is where 4x Spell Snare and friends come in, giving me around 13/10 2cc outs for Zoo/Combo, respectively, assuming one Counterbalance is active, obviously less as the game goes on.

So to answer your question about the inclusion of 4x Spell Snare, I would definitely play with the same counter package if I knew I were to be playing against the top decks in Legacy. So many critical spells for decks (in a wide spread of the top decks, Goyf, Counterbalance, Price of Progress, Lord of Atlantis, Jitte, Cabal Ritual, etc) are at the 2cc curve. If I were to go to a smaller, local tournament, I would either a) not play Landstill, or b) tweak to include Counterspell. The problem with Counterspell is that two blue sources is not necessarily needed as much as, say, a single white/blue source + colorless (like Factory) out of the gates. Force was fine as my hard counter for the day, mainly because of the variety of answers I had at my disposal. I may not have been as comfortable with just 4 FoW if I didn't have SDT, which is one of the most powerful cards in the format, and allowed me to dig for almost every answer I needed. About EE, I think 3 is the perfect number, and I probably should have run just 2 with Academy Ruins, given the Tolaria West/Karakas package. And you're right, an extra basic would have gone a long ways. I didn't like having the extra nonbasics, as it hurt the stability of the mana base.

Media314r8

02-24-2010, 10:11 AM

I would not have boarded out humility against zoo. With pridemage usually making up their art/enchantment removal suite, many zoo decks are completely cold to humility. I think CB is generally correct to bring in against zoo, but with only 10 twos (minus the CB you play) it's nowhere near ideal.

I'm actually very surprised that you're still running FoF in the main, it seems really slow, and tends to come out against your bad matchups and be terrible against aggro, combo, and most aggro-control decks. Have you tried scroll rack+treasure hunt? With brainstorms and SDT in tow, it would add to the value of Treasure hunt, and Scroll rack not only is another 2 for CB side, but it is the absolute nuts with CB. In situations where you need to dig with FoF, rack digs you nearly as deep without revealing the information to your opponent for less mana. (dig turn three for turn three helix/turn four firespout vs digging turn four for turn five helix/firespout.) This is all without taking into account how horrendous FoF is against mana denial or if you've had to mull into fewer than four lands. Just some food for thought.

Mark Sun

02-24-2010, 12:17 PM

I would not have boarded out humility against zoo. With pridemage usually making up their art/enchantment removal suite, many zoo decks are completely cold to humility. I think CB is generally correct to bring in against zoo, but with only 10 twos (minus the CB you play) it's nowhere near ideal.

I'm actually very surprised that you're still running FoF in the main, it seems really slow, and tends to come out against your bad matchups and be terrible against aggro, combo, and most aggro-control decks. Have you tried scroll rack+treasure hunt? With brainstorms and SDT in tow, it would add to the value of Treasure hunt, and Scroll rack not only is another 2 for CB side, but it is the absolute nuts with CB. In situations where you need to dig with FoF, rack digs you nearly as deep without revealing the information to your opponent for less mana. (dig turn three for turn three helix/turn four firespout vs digging turn four for turn five helix/firespout.) This is all without taking into account how horrendous FoF is against mana denial or if you've had to mull into fewer than four lands. Just some food for thought.

I will continue to be a huge advocate of boarding out Humility g2 and g3 in favor of Firespout #3 and Relic #3, mainly on the principle that while Humility steals g1 usually (no answers from Zoo at all), it has diminished returns afterwards with the existence of Krosan Grip. If you are on the draw g2, which this build certainly makes that a possibiity, you cannot afford to risk a t4 tap out, sorcery-speed tentative answer to the board position. The great thing about Zoo itself is, as mentioned, the 3-or-less toughness of everything it plays except for 6-7 threats (generally): 4 Goyf, 2-3 KotR. Having access to 5 StP effects makes sure these guys aren't on the board when you Firespout, giving you massive card advantage in that fight. Also, Relic post-board is as good as Humility versus Zoo, where maintaining priority and activating it shuts down Grim Lavamancer, Goofy, and KotR all at the same time, while exposing their 2 "biggest" creatures to a measly Firespout. Krosan Grip cannot answer that, and if they are foolish enough to board in a Pithing Needle with the intention of naming Relic (I cannot think of what else Zoo would have), then so be it their loss to do so, as it decreases threat density anyways.

As mentioned, CB-Top did a good job of shutting down their burn, as well as protecting Factories so they could apply more pressure under Standstill. 2cc & 3cc were a little bare, but with Brainstorm, shuffle effects, I still managed to steal a few Pridemages, Goyfs, and a crucial Choke with Counterbalance against my Round 4 opponent.

I like the idea of Scroll Rack, actually, but I'm not sure what I would reconfigure. It does have great synergy with aforementioned Treasure Hunt and is nice with Counterbalance. FoF resolved a few times during the tournament, and I was fine with how it performed. It provides this list with gas in the mid-late game, and its separation requirement for the opponent often worked in my favor (except against Merfolk, which I flipped 5 cards of irrelevancy).

Shawn

02-24-2010, 01:16 PM

I would not have boarded out humility against zoo. With pridemage usually making up their art/enchantment removal suite, many zoo decks are completely cold to humility.

The problem with Humility is it's usually too slow against zoo. By turn four their early drops have done plenty of damage, or you have answered their threats. Unless it's a build that's more creature heavy than the standard lists, (which you should beat without Humility) it's not that exciting.

I'm actually very surprised that you're still running FoF in the main, it seems really slow, and tends to come out against your bad matchups and be terrible against aggro, combo, and most aggro-control decks.

Which matchups? It's not the best against Merfolk, or decks with burn, but it's absurd against black-based disruption, CounterTop, and pretty much everything else.

In situations where you need to dig with FoF, rack digs you nearly as deep without revealing the information to your opponent for less mana

Fact or Fiction gives you card advantage, whereas Scroll Rack doesn't by itself. The fact it reveals the cards you are getting is irrelevent, it easily makes that up by how powerful the spell is. I'd rather play 4 Tops, then Ponders, then additional Fact or Fictions over Scroll Rack.

This is all without taking into account how horrendous FoF is against mana denial or if you've had to mull into fewer than four lands.

If you can't hit four mana in a game with landstill (without Goyfs), you aren't going to win anyway.