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I finally finished the latest book and it was a fine read. There's not enough on the Starks for my full enjoyment, but it was to be expected. Theon, Bran and Arya have the most enjoyable chapters to read, even with what little there were for the latter two. The rest was okay, although Jon, Asha, Davos, and Jaime's stories finally got really interesting at the end of each.

Oh, and as much as I appreciate and feel for her troubles and what she's trying to, I now think Daenerys should just stay away from Westeros. My anticipation of seeing her try to reclaim her father's throne with her dragons has passed. And with Aegon's appearance...

There's not enough on the Starks for my full enjoyment, but it was to be expected.

Well yeah, they are sort of a rare breed now aren't they

I made myself sad

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Theon, Bran and Arya have the most enjoyable chapters to read, even with what little there were for the latter two. The rest was okay, although Jon, Asha, Davos, and Jaime's stories finally got really interesting at the end of each.

It's really a shame that we didn't get much of Arya or Bran this time round (to be fair, they weren't supposed to be included in the fifth book in the first place so ...). On the flip side, having them have so few chapters meant we got to learn a lot more about them than this time, so I guess it evens out a little.

What was most interesting about these chapters (aside from the revelation on who the Crow really is and how the Assassins operate) is that both of these two seem to be in the middle of a training arc ... well, to be fair, it seems all of the living Starks are in a sort of training arc, from Sansa (or should it be Alayne at this point ...?) is getting to learn about how the Game of Thrones is played, and is actually setting her eyes on a suitor for her to go on a become a queen of the almost the entire northern portion of the Seven Kingdoms, meanwhile Rickon is getting a crash course on what it means to be a Berserk from the most savage island inhabitants in the world apparently, if what even half of the things we got to learn from Davos end up being true.

But more than that, I feel that we are getting to see something more here ... GRRM had pointed this out years ago in Sansa after losing Lady ended up becoming less of Stark somewhat, but how also she kept on altering things in her memory till they ended up becoming true (like how the Hound had kissed her, when in actuality he never did such a thing). Despite them all being as far away from each other, the Stark children are bound by the same commonality, that of the loss of ones identity to shift into something different. Arya is literally changing into a different person everytime she goes for a hit, Bran is undergoing a mystical transformation into becoming something much higher, Sansa is becoming Alayne, Rickon is becomning a savage ... and Jon is turning into something more? I wonder, will they be able to recognize each other if they meet again?

Personally, I really loved the Barristan, Davos and Jamie's chapters. It's so interesting to get a perspective into the loyal second hand guy to these rulers, and to see what they think of the lords they are sworn to. Jamie was also really fun to see him running around fixing shit and being a Knight again after coming out of the dark side (getting his hand cut off was the best thing to happen to guy lol). Jon was pretty okay, but that cliffhanger made me want to toss the entire collection out of my window.

I also enjoyed the Cersei chapters, few as they were, and not do to her punishment (though I thought she got what was coming to her, since she ultimately engineered her own downfall with giving the Church that much power and then going around and making a mess of the entire government) I really liked what I was seeing with the rise of the religious regime and how it had managed to get so much leverage and power over the High born to the point where they ended up being almost the most powerful faction in the current hierarchy ... really looking forward to see what goes on from there on (if anyone is going to rule the Seven Kingdoms, they are going to have to go through them now, and that means that Stannis with his new God is going to have another enemy to fight ...)

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Oh, and as much as I appreciate and feel for her troubles and what she's trying to, I now think Daenerys should just stay away from Westeros. My anticipation of seeing her try to reclaim her father's throne with her dragons has passed. And with Aegon's appearance...

The common theory going around is that Aegon is a faker (see: the vision where the crowd were cheering the Mummer's Dragon) so I don't know ... will he be a better ruler than her? The signs are sort of point towards a yes, since he was trained to be one from the get go, but at the same time even the best laid plans can go to hell ...

Mind you, I think Dany isn't going to enjoy coming over to Westeros at all, but who knows what could happen ...

It's really a shame that we didn't get much of Arya or Bran this time round (to be fair, they weren't supposed to be included in the fifth book in the first place so ...). On the flip side, having them have so few chapters meant we got to learn a lot more about them than this time, so I guess it evens out a little.

I had my hope when I read what Martin wrote about seeing some Feast characters in the second half.

Quote:

What was most interesting about these chapters (aside from the revelation on who the Crow really is and how the Assassins operate) is that both of these two seem to be in the middle of a training arc ... well, to be fair, it seems all of the living Starks are in a sort of training arc, from Sansa (or should it be Alayne at this point ...?) is getting to learn about how the Game of Thrones is played, and is actually setting her eyes on a suitor for her to go on a become a queen of the almost the entire northern portion of the Seven Kingdoms, meanwhile Rickon is getting a crash course on what it means to be a Berserk from the most savage island inhabitants in the world apparently, if what even half of the things we got to learn from Davos end up being true.

To be honest, I don't remember much of Rickon anymore. That's why I was a little disappointed when Davos's chapters stopped just like that.

Quote:

But more than that, I feel that we are getting to see something more here ... GRRM had pointed this out years ago in Sansa after losing Lady ended up becoming less of Stark somewhat, but how also she kept on altering things in her memory till they ended up becoming true (like how the Hound had kissed her, when in actuality he never did such a thing). Despite them all being as far away from each other, the Stark children are bound by the same commonality, that of the loss of ones identity to shift into something different. Arya is literally changing into a different person everytime she goes for a hit, Bran is undergoing a mystical transformation into becoming something much higher, Sansa is becoming Alayne, Rickon is becomning a savage ... and Jon is turning into something more? I wonder, will they be able to recognize each other if they meet again?

Well, I think the lesson for the Starks (punctuated by the deaths of Eddard and Robb) is that times are changing and they can't remain the way they were when they ruled from Winterfell. And as we find out by the end of this book, winter is here.

So I do expect and look forward to see them change, but I also expect, no matter how they change, they will still be united in common blood as Starks.

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Personally, I really loved the Barristan, Davos and Jamie's chapters. It's so interesting to get a perspective into the loyal second hand guy to these rulers, and to see what they think of the lords they are sworn to. Jamie was also really fun to see him running around fixing shit and being a Knight again after coming out of the dark side (getting his hand cut off was the best thing to happen to guy lol).

Oh definitely, as I've heard it said, the true worth of a servant is what he does when his master is not around.

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Jon was pretty okay, but that cliffhanger made me want to toss the entire collection out of my window.

It's a good thing for me it happened near the end of the book.

But I tell you one thing, if after all that happened, none of of the Starks survive by the end of this series , I'm going to be so mad.

And if there were survivors, but none ever managed to reclaim Winterfell, I'm going to be so sad.

Quote:

I also enjoyed the Cersei chapters, few as they were, and not do to her punishment (though I thought she got what was coming to her, since she ultimately engineered her own downfall with giving the Church that much power and then going around and making a mess of the entire government) I really liked what I was seeing with the rise of the religious regime and how it had managed to get so much leverage and power over the High born to the point where they ended up being almost the most powerful faction in the current hierarchy ... really looking forward to see what goes on from there on (if anyone is going to rule the Seven Kingdoms, they are going to have to go through them now, and that means that Stannis with his new God is going to have another enemy to fight ...)

Yeah, we'll see how long before religion becomes a main factor in the war, if ever. Up to this point, the main conflict is simply about right of inheritance with religion just another point of difference.

Quote:

The common theory going around is that Aegon is a faker (see: the vision where the crowd were cheering the Mummer's Dragon) so I don't know ... will he be a better ruler than her? The signs are sort of point towards a yes, since he was trained to be one from the get go, but at the same time even the best laid plans can go to hell ...

Mind you, I think Dany isn't going to enjoy coming over to Westeros at all, but who knows what could happen ...

Real or not, there's a 90% chance that Aegon would fail. That's just the nature of the game of thrones. All that matters is that he's here to play in Westeros while Daenerys is not.

And as for Daenerys, if she ever comes to Westeros, I think the most likely reason is because she failed in Meereen. That would surely motivate her to not fail in Westeros. On the other hand, if she succeed in the east and simply wished to expand her kingdom to Westeros, that would just be a little boring and not what I prefer to see.

Yeah, we'll see how long before religion becomes a main factor in the war, if ever. Up to this point, the main conflict is simply about right of inheritance with religion just another point of difference.

The history of the Seven is pretty extensive and well though out, I think. We had heard about how it came to decline so much over the years following the Targaryen's rise and subsequent 3 century reign, where they lost a lot of their power to the crown. It was only thanks to what Cersei did that they managed to become as powerful as they are now, and going by how they had the Queen Regent go around butt naked into front of all of capital, well ... exactly how much trouple are these guys going to cause for everyone in the future?

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

Real or not, there's a 90% chance that Aegon would fail. That's just the nature of the game of thrones. All that matters is that he's here to play in Westeros while Daenerys is not.

Sure, but when is he going to fail? First battle? Second battle? At the crowning? At his marriage? When Daenerys returns?

See, I actually think Aegon is going to fail ... at the end. It'll not matter whether or not he is real, as you say, but I think he is going to unify the kingdom and actually pave the way for Dany's return.

Speaking off ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by monster

And as for Daenerys, if she ever comes to Westeros, I think the most likely reason is because she failed in Meereen. That would surely motivate her to not fail in Westeros. On the other hand, if she succeed in the east and simply wished to expand her kingdom to Westeros, that would just be a little boring and not what I prefer to see.

GRRM is hyping her to be the horny messiah, so I think all these prophecies are actually going to make her the de facto Queen of everything, but just in title. A figurehead I think. We shall see how it happens, but I strongly suspect the real power will be with the Stark's when all is said and done.

The history of the Seven is pretty extensive and well though out, I think. We had heard about how it came to decline so much over the years following the Targaryen's rise and subsequent 3 century reign, where they lost a lot of their power to the crown. It was only thanks to what Cersei did that they managed to become as powerful as they are now, and going by how they had the Queen Regent go around butt naked into front of all of capital, well ... exactly how much trouple are these guys going to cause for everyone in the future?

The Seven certainly has been doing just fine compared to the other gods in Westeros.

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Sure, but when is he going to fail? First battle? Second battle? At the crowning? At his marriage? When Daenerys returns?

I think Aegon would go far, considering Varys seems to be supporting him.

Quote:

See, I actually think Aegon is going to fail ... at the end. It'll not matter whether or not he is real, as you say, but I think he is going to unify the kingdom and actually pave the way for Dany's return.

Ugh, but that does seem likely.

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We shall see how it happens, but I strongly suspect the real power will be with the Stark's when all is said and done.

Assuming the Starks regain their rule (and I really hope they do), I don't see any of the current living Starks wanting to rule all of Westeros. I think they'd be content to rule just the North. So that leaves room for someone to rule the South as long as they don't try to conquer the North. We'll just have to see whether that will be Aegon, Daenerys, Stannis, either of Cersei's children, or even some other contender.

I'll be fine if Dany winds up taking it all.....but goddamn she was awful in ADWD.

Originally, Danny's rule plotline was meant to be contrasted with Cersei's before the book got split into two parts. You can still see the parallel in both stories in how easily things got out of control and away from what they had envisioned (and their lack of foresight), their dappling into lesbianism (more Cersei's on this part; Danny was a full-blown bisexual who had more taste for men but had to settle for the ''free'' women & little girls for comfort), and of course blowing up and making things worse with FIRE AND BLOOD. See Cersei blowing up the Tower of the Hand and Danny's dragons starting to grow an appetite for little children.

Some had taken this as an unfortunate (and IMO unintentional) subtext that ''Women can't govern/make for bad rulers'', but I honestly think it's more of a case of ''Hormonal teenagers and crazy people make for really shitty heads of state''.

I mean if you look at the state of things atm, there aren't a lot of folk who seem to be able to govern anything in Westeros (or beyond) ... well, anymore I mean.

I mean it's not like Jon was doing much better, going by how he managed to get his own subordinates to play a game of Caesar and Mark Antony after ignoring all their input and refusing to win their trust. Jaime looks like he's managing better, but then again he's more of the last sane man standing in this family (and civil war) and is handling the situation as it comes (and in the only way feasible) with mixed results.

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Originally Posted by GDiddy

I see this upcoming season focuses on a quite a few things:

Spoiler:

The Unsullied.

Brienne and Jaime's bromance.

Jon and Ygritte's brief romance in the cave.

and to paraphase a popular song from back in the day...it'll be a nice day for a Red Wedding....

-Yeah, I do remember the seen with the freeing of the slaves as being really motivational in the book, so I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out in the series.

Or should I say, if it plays out ...?

-the OTP if the series, no question

-Eew ... I remember that ... god damn, why does the sexual scenes have to be so gross (and painful) in this series? (I mean, oral sex is great and all, but considering the hygiene and the situation ...)