Dan90210
Woman of the year 2015
Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 23307
Loc: Denton County

I was thinking, why are limits on bass generally 5 fish, but cats, crappie, sandies are much higher? Typically 25 vs. 5.

My question is why? Are bass just that much less common?

Almost no one keeps bass, so is 5 even the right number? I assume you have a limit as you try to manage your population structure, but if the limit is 5 and only 8% of people keep a bass, how do we know 5 is the right number still as behaviors around catch and release change?

Why is the bass on the pedestal while people load up 25 trophy cats? Thoughts?

Probably due to egg production, types of eggs (floating or sinking) and survival rates. Bass fry are very susceptible to predation. Roughly, these are the number of eggs produced by females of each species.

Largemouth Bass - 2,000 - 40,000. Average 5,000.

Crappie - 11,000-88,000. Average 25,000.

Catfish - 50,000

White Bass - 242,000 to 933,000. Average 400,000.

Now you know why we'll never get rid of white bass in Fork.

_________________________
"Things turn out best for those who make the best of the way things turn out" - Zachary Troy Schrah - a young man with vision far beyond his years.

What I have seen is that it's often more arbitrary than folks would assume, at least on bass.

Like you said, very few people regularly harvest bass anymore, and the biologists know that. But, if the population models showed that the size structure or yield would be improved by allowing 10, 15, or 25 bass daily limits based on the harvest trends that exist on that fishery and they implemented that regulation, most hard-core bass guys would be calling for more restrictive regulations in the spirit of conservation, even if the models say that tighter restrictions aren't beneficial.

The 5 per day limit seems to satisfy the bass enthusiast's desire for conservation, and harvest-oriented anglers don't usually target the more difficult to catch black bass (compared to crappie and catfish) anyway, so neither side puts up much of a fuss.

Now, on fisheries where there is active management, like people deliberately go out and harvest certain numbers and sizes as part of a detailed management strategy (usually private reservoirs and places that charge admission), and they have enough sampling data to run population models can fine tune daily harvest rates and sizes to maximize whatever strategy their wanting in their reservoir. There usually isn't that level of effort in management and harvest in public waters so you get the standard conservative 5 per day limit.

That's just my view, as someone who has observed the research and regulatory process unfold in management of the black bass on the Arkansas River.

Dan90210
Woman of the year 2015
Registered: 11/18/09
Posts: 23307
Loc: Denton County

I got to thinking about this when catching dozens of 13 inch bass on Lville recently, and thought about how few people take bass compared to crappie or cats, and how it might make the fishing better if folks did take some.

Did my part last week and took one 15 incher. I felt kind of guilty about it then thought, the limit is 5 a day, everyday. Thats what they say the population can sustain. I can take one every 10 years ha ha.

To be honest, I bet many more fish die from hooking injury than end up being kept for food. I know I kill at least a few a year, just hooked deep or the hook got into the gills and they bleed out... I let them go and hope for the best but fact is I know many of them probably wont make it.

There are many "Slot" lakes that the TPWD use the size limits to try and regulate and help "mold" that lake into a bettery fishery. Even though most of us do NOT keep the short fish, it is encouraged to help balance out that lake.

You do raise an important point , Dan, that some don't want to admit. Hooking and handling mortality is a real thing, even when we strive to minimize it. And tournament mortality, especially in the summer on highly pressured lakes, can have an impact on a population.

Although we should always try to minimize mortality, I actually think that tournament mortality compensates for the lack of harvest. It could easily be considered wasteful, but for the raw numbers of the population, the result is similar to what would happen if most anglers took a couple home each time they went out. One obvious difference is that tournament mortality usually affects the bigger individuals more than the smaller ones. But, it would be hard to convince people to only take home little ones if harvest were to be promoted again because it's a hassle to clean dinks, especially when you can only keep a few at a time.

You do raise an important point , Dan, that some don't want to admit. Hooking and handling mortality is a real thing, even when we strive to minimize it. And tournament mortality, especially in the summer on highly pressured lakes, can have an impact on a population.

Although we should always try to minimize mortality, I actually think that tournament mortality compensates for the lack of harvest. It could easily be considered wasteful, but for the raw numbers of the population, the result is similar to what would happen if most anglers took a couple home each time they went out. One obvious difference is that tournament mortality usually affects the bigger individuals more than the smaller ones. But, it would be hard to convince people to only take home little ones if harvest were to be promoted again because it's a hassle to clean dinks, especially when you can only keep a few at a time.

Where did you find that? I googled it and it is surely NOT 90%. BUT, it could depend on the location, time of year, type of tournament and the contestant ability and desire for fish care. But, I think 90% is a misrepresentation of the actual number that die. Then the next question is HOW long after a tournament does the fish survive could be the survey question also. If you go for 1 or 2 years then YEP they gonna die!

"During an Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation study, up to 43 percent of fish released after being caught died within six days as a result of inadequate holding and weigh in procedures during tournaments."But we all know tourney's mean $$ for the area, sponsors and all that flash n fame. So they aren't going anywhere.. Even though some wish they would. Tourney's in our local lakes are just taking decent fish away from the average guy that loves to fish for fun and food.

"During an Oklahoma Department of Wildlife Conservation study, up to 43 percent of fish released after being caught died within six days as a result of inadequate holding and weigh in procedures during tournaments."But we all know tourney's mean $$ for the area, sponsors and all that flash n fame. So they aren't going anywhere.. Even though some wish they would. Tourney's in our local lakes are just taking decent fish away from the average guy that loves to fish for fun and food.

I just could not possible disagree with you more.

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"One can only get so stupid, then you die." - Pilothawk