It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

This doesn't make any sense. How would the stock pump restrict the E85 pump in parallel? Please explain this to me. Having them in series makes them flow more for a given pressure. The pressure is not the issue, these pumps can hold 72psi. The issue is flow at that pressure. As you start demanding more FLOW it lowers the available PRESSURE. If you need more flow, two pumps in parallel are the solution. Since each pump can independently hit the pressure targets, it is not necessary to run them series. I have explained this already. A series pump setup is a patch and will work to get you a little more pressure on the top end of the flow if the pumps are similarly sized. It is pointless though to have a high volume pump suck a low volume pump. I cant believe I am even responding to this, just read the thread again.

These pumps can hold the required pressure in theory when new. Parallel setups are at their best in low restriction applications with identical pumps. This is not the case here, for which reason pumps in series work better. I put my money where my mouth is. I'm going to install my e85 Walbro either in series, or use it in stand alone replacing the stock pump. I won't definitely install it in parallel configuration. So, are you going to install yours in parallel, since you believe in parallel working for N54?

Before I bought the 267 Walbro pump I bought an inexpensive inline Walbro pump to try that as a booster setup. I never got around to following up on it as the in tank turned out to work so well. But this is another option. This particular pump is $99 and you'll notice it has barbed fittings so no CNC machined parts are required. You'd shove it in the orange line leading to the regulator. Inline pumps will increase pressure but won't increase overall flow much. Since the issue seems to be one of pressure at the HPFP (pushing through it's tiny opening) then an inline approach may very well work OK here.

Speaking of which, the regulator looks really shoddy. I'll do some bench testing with it when I get over this cold. I wonder if switching it out for a higher quality regulator and running a little more pressure, like 80psi, would do us some good on getting around the HPFP limitation?

This would be the cheapest way to get the fueling solved for the stock frame turbo cars.

These pumps can hold the required pressure in theory when new. Parallel setups are at their best in low restriction applications with identical pumps. This is not the case here, for which reason pumps in series work better. I put my money where my mouth is. I'm going to install my e85 Walbro either in series, or use it in stand alone replacing the stock pump. I won't definitely install it in parallel configuration. So, are you going to install yours in parallel, since you believe in parallel working for N54?

1. I won't need an upgraded fuel pump for a while, so I have no need to run in series or parallel. 2. I wouldn't run two pumps, I'd run only the E85 pump. 3. Say what you want about series/parallel and old vs. new pumps, but you don't know what you're talking about quite clearly. I got nothing to prove here. I said my bit, showed the graphs and substantiated it. Talk is cheap, if you don't believe me provide some data substantiating your claim and run the tests yourself.

1. I won't need an upgraded fuel pump for a while, so I have no need to run in series or parallel. 2. I wouldn't run two pumps, I'd run only the E85 pump. 3. Say what you want about series/parallel and old vs. new pumps, but you don't know what you're talking about quite clearly. I got nothing to prove here. I said my bit, showed the graphs and substantiated it. Talk is cheap, if you don't believe me provide some data substantiating your claim and run the tests yourself.

Let me know when anyone actually believes you enough to have the parallel setup in N54. I don't know anyone. I will admit I was wrong when the market share of parallel setups is above the market share of serial setups in N54 market. Like never.

i think 654 adds a noble amount of information in most area's. I dont know $#@! about the pump situation, BUT, from what ive seen here, there is more data shown for rudy's conclusions, and none other than words from 654..

Not commenting on his overall contributions just his attitude toward some on who went to the trouble of gathering facts to support his conclusions. If he has better information supporting his opinion maybe he should just post it.

Sorry missed the edit time doing spell check. Since I am at sub mediocre power levels & intend to stay there I have no interest in buying either solution. But from a basic interest & curiosity in the available solutions to the problem I don’t think I would want to put a $600 Rube Goldberg solution in my gas thank. The best single pump available from a main line manufacturer or specialty race shop would look to be in my mind the best answer to fueling the car.

Let me know when anyone actually believes you enough to have the parallel setup in N54. I don't know anyone. I will admit I was wrong when the market share of parallel setups is above the market share of serial setups in N54 market. Like never.

This is besides the point and just because Shivites in the N54 realm will do it that way doesn't mean it's the best way as has been proven many times.

Not commenting on his overall contributions just his attitude toward some on who went to the trouble of gathering facts to support his conclusions. If he has better information supporting his opinion maybe he should just post it.

To have a constructive conversation you could point out my "opinions" that you feel are wrong. I'm willing to learn from my mistakes.

The stuff that someone else has posted in the internet is a "fact", even though it was not about N54 platform and not related to the high pressure requirements? The internet fact copy pasted and posted was a partial truth. When the restriction is lowish, as in many cases in other platforms, the copy pasted stuff is correct. However, it does not prove it would be correct in our case. At very high resistance a parallel system does not even outperform a single pump. I could easily google and find someone else to say the same thing and quote him, but since I know it myself, I don't see the value of internet quotes.

If parallel system is so good, how come Terry went with a single pump / removed the stock one? Honestly, I would not promote parallel system based on what I know about the pressure requirements of n54 and how the increased resistance affects parallel pumps.

The devil is always in the details. In my opinion neither two pumps in parallel or in series are the best approach here. The best approach is one good pump. And removing the flow limitation leading in to the HPFP.

Having not been following the argument to date nor reading anyone's posted links, I've always used in series (e.g. booster) pumps when I need to hit higher fuel pressures that the single pump alone can't hit, and the packaging made is difficult to replace the OEM pump. Normally was with an FMU system and 80-120psi fuel pressure. I've used in parallel pumps when each pump could support the proper fuel pressure but more overall volume was needed. In parallel is the "proper" way to utilize a dual pump setup. But again like I said it's a details business. Either approach would work here as the OEM pump can clearly support 72psi but then you get in to packaging restraints, etc. Shiv is using 3 pumps now so god knows how that is configured.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

The devil is always in the details. In my opinion neither two pumps in parallel or in series are the best approach here. The best approach is one good pump. And removing the flow limitation leading in to the HPFP.

Having not been following the argument to date nor reading anyone's posted links, I've always used in series (e.g. booster) pumps when I need to hit higher fuel pressures that the single pump alone can't hit, and the packaging made is difficult to replace the OEM pump. Normally was with an FMU system and 80-120psi fuel pressure. I've used in parallel pumps when each pump could support the proper fuel pressure but more overall volume was needed. In parallel is the "proper" way to utilize a dual pump setup. But again like I said it's a details business. Either approach would work here as the OEM pump can clearly support 72psi but then you get in to packaging restraints, etc. Shiv is using 3 pumps now so god knows how that is configured.

Shiv's offering is an overkill to most and the single pump should serve the majority well. However, at some power level the single Walbro is not enough. Big singles and GTX twins would benefit of additional flow. Do you have a plan already?

I like 654's input... to the point, brief, and will point you in the right direction.

On the pumps, there's a couple options:
1. A single higher volume replacement... Time will determine if pressure is an issue.
2. Pumps in series. Supports more volume then 1, and theoretically longer life.

The design goals were different... an immediate, simple fix for e85 / 500HP. And a long term solution to support 700+HP. Both are solutions.

Agree. On the other hand hoping that Shivites are wrong does not mean their approach is wrong.

I agree that the inline pump method isn't a wrong approach. From the general consensus here, it seems as though everyone thinks it's not necessary to run two pumps inline, unless you're pushing serious power, but at which point two pumps run in-parallel would be a "better" approach.

Shiv's offering is an overkill to most and the single pump should serve the majority well. However, at some power level the single Walbro is not enough. Big singles and GTX twins would benefit of additional flow. Do you have a plan already?

Personally I think the solution isn't more pressure but a physically modified HPFP. Maybe as easy as machining in a few fitting to accept a -6an or -8an line. Who knows maybe once we machine it a bit the OEM lines will do.

It is the sole responsibility of the purchaser and installer of any BMS part to employ the correct installation techniques required to ensure the proper operation of BMS parts, and BMS disclaims any and all liability for any part failure due to improper installation or use. It is the sole responsibility of the customer to verify that the use of their vehicle and items purchased comply with federal, state and local regulations. BMS claims no legal federal, state or local certification concerning pollution controlled motor vehicles or mandated emissions requirements. BMS products labeled for use only in competition racing vehicles may only be used on competition racing vehicles operated exclusively on a closed course in conjunction with a sanctioned racing event, in accordance with all federal and state laws, and may never be operated on public roads/highways. Please see http://www.burgertuning.com/emissions_info.html for more information on legal requirements related to use of BMS parts.

I don't think anyone was saying the approach is wrong. The approach is only wrong if it doesn't work and given what's been presented by Shiv there's no reason why his solution wouldn't provide more fuel while maintaining pressure. Some of the questions I have though is how much more fuel exactly (as in tested, not estimated) how reliable?

However, as I've also mentioned before I'd like to see a few more people take a crack at it as there's just something about multiple pumps that I personally don't like the sound of. I know most platforms do dual and even triple pumps but I'd just like to see if something simpler (even if more costly) is available or possible to be done. I applaud all efforts in pushing this platform forward and sometimes we all jump too early to conclusions especially when we haven't had enough seat time with things that someone else may have on a particular platform. Jumping to early conclusions especially without their own testing and research, which all costs time and money, is one thing most of us need to start doing less of and start doing our own data gathering and research for presentment and discussion. However, that's not to say anyone should need to eat up everything they're served by any vendor out there..

The series solution isn't wrong, I just don't think, based on the data, that it will outflow the single E85 at 72psi. It will most definitely flow more than stock. But why add the complexity of another circuit and more weight if it doesn't outflow a single replacement pump? If you want 600-700hp the e85 pump makes sense, if you want 1000hp then run the two in parallel with upgraded lines and hpfp. Running series with a 255lph max pump through a pump that does 355lpg at 72psi makes no sense. If I had the money, id buy the e85 pump and bench them. But the reality is I don't have the money and if I did, the neigh sayers aren't going to change their minds. I will tell you though, I did study pumps specifically for half a year in college, for what its worth (but tbh you really don't need to study it in college to vet these concepts...).

Hey, so, this is my first post (or, one of my first posts, if I don't remember...). I do not know that much about fuel pumps, whatsoever. When changing fuel pumps (Say, swapping a stock unit for a Walbro pump), to the signals to the pump have to change, respectively? If, say, voltage was demanding the stock pump to do what it could not do, would the same signals translate to the desired flow in the upgraded pump?

I have the Flex Fuel kit installed, and I really do like it! It's nice not having to get the ratios just right (though, I'm sure that the right ratios perform extremely well on other systems, too.). I'm wondering whether this system would work with a swapped pump. I'm certainly willing to do some further testing of my own, especially given how crazily easy it is to access the fuel pump.