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Candygirl, I agree that those types of comments aren't the hallmark of the healthy relationship but to me they didn't seem to spell doom for the relationship and could IMO be something that would cross people's (neurotic peoples) minds even in a good relationship.
To me the idea of love conquers all could even apply to overall incompatibility and permanent dissolution of the relationship. The idea that love can thrive or at least persist even in the absence of the ability to tolerate the existence of each other is Romantic (like emotional literature, not flowers and candlelight), though twisted and certainly not happy unless you're really reaching. But I still think the film depicted somthing happier than that scenario.

candygirl wrote:I have read some interesting and conflicting reviews about what people thought the movie meant. The Happy Camp interprets the movie as a triumph of love - if you're meant to be together, you will be together no matter what. The Cynical Camp sees the movie as proof that people will make the same mistakes over and over.

I'd be a member of the Cynic Camp too (hell, I am for everything else), but I partly believe in the Happy Camp theory if you replace the word love with attraction. Love is not always meant to be, but you can erase your memory 100 times; you can't erase the attraction you'll inevitably feel for another person no matter how many times you meet them for the first time.

I think I have seen one too many examples of abusive, unhealthy relationships on Jerry Springer where people justify staying with the plaintive wail of "but I loooooove him!"

I am also not big fan of opposites attract. At the ripe old age of almost 30, I prefer being with someone who is more similar. Relationships face enough obstacles without throwing in "party girl wants homebody boyfriend to go to bars more often" into the mix. Although being with someone who is your opposite can definitely open your eyes to new things, I believe it's possible to try new things and explore new hobbies with someone who shares common interests/background/values.

I have had relationships where my boyfriend and I argued a lot (mostly playfully), but I don't feel that passion requires the two people to be different. My present boyfriend and I don't argue - not because we repress but because we are very similar - yet we still have a very hot, intense, and passionate relationship.

I see what you are saying about attraction, but again, I don't think that's enough to carry a relationship. There are people to whom I feel an intense attraction (for example, one guy who is an ex and another guy who is just a friend) but it's just a chemical reaction involving pheromones. I know my ex and I have such fundamental differences in our personalities that we could not be happy long term.

What I have learned from my past relationships (as well as my friends' relationships and Jerry Springer) is that you can't go into a relationship hoping that the other person will change. Don't fall in love with their potential. If you can't imagine spending every day with that person just the way they are, then plan on (1) a short-term relationship or (2) being frustrated in a long-term relationship with this person (that's not a crack on short-term relationships either - marriage does not have to be the goal every time you meet someone).

The problem I saw with Joel and Clementine's relationship is that in returning to each other, neither of them had changed. So how long before she began acting out (whether that meant cheating on him or she found another way to hurt him) and he began acting sullen and withdrawn? He wanted her to stop sleeping around, but if that's the way she manifests her insecurity, what are the chances that she will stop being that way? She wanted him to be less jealous and possessive, but if that's the way he manifests his insecurity, what are the chances that he will stop being that way? And if they are both going to act the same way as before with her sleeping around feeding into his jealousy, what are the chances that their relationship will be any better the second time around?

I used to think that there was one perfect person who you were meant to be with, but now I believe that you could be happy with lots of different people. Too many people cling to crappy relationships because they are too afraid to make a change or take a chance. YMMV!

Natasha aka candygirl :: MSCL.com

Look, if this is weird for you, being tutored? I don't mind helping you a little longer. You could have sex with me if you really want to help...I guess that's a "no"?

Kristin wrote:I think that it worked better for the movie that they didn't keep erasing their memories of each other. Or at least that they didn't show it in the movie. I thought it was open-ended, because then the audience can decide whether the message is optimistic or pessimistic. I just thought the way it ended seemed optimistic.

candygirl, always playing devil's advocate!

I agree that the story is better with them only erasing their mind once. because it's not like time travel. the second time they go to erase their mind, given what happened the first time, they would know the possibility of finding each other again is pretty high.

candygirl wrote:I think I have seen one too many examples of abusive, unhealthy relationships on Jerry Springer where people justify staying with the plaintive wail of "but I loooooove him!"

You watch Jerry Springer?

I am also not big fan of opposites attract. ... There are people to whom I feel an intense attraction (for example, one guy who is an ex and another guy who is just a friend) but it's just a chemical reaction involving pheromones.

I understand what you mean, candygirl. I find myself intensely attracted to guys who are (maybe) emotionally unavailable... I don't know, it's hard to describe. But I know myself, and I know that in the long run when it comes time to think about marriage, I am going to want a husband who is confident in himself and available to me emotionally - more similar to my temperment. I think perhaps I find myself attracted to the emotionally unavailable guys right now because I don't want huge huge attachment at this time in my life. I can't think about marriage yet - I'm not even out of college. And as hot as I think these guys are, I don't want any of them to be my boyfriend. They would really piss me off as a boyfriend! I've seen examples of opposites attract that work and examples that don't.

Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

The problem I saw with Joel and Clementine's relationship is that in returning to each other, neither of them had changed. So how long before she began acting out (whether that meant cheating on him or she found another way to hurt him) and he began acting sullen and withdrawn? He wanted her to stop sleeping around, but if that's the way she manifests her insecurity, what are the chances that she will stop being that way? She wanted him to be less jealous and possessive, but if that's the way he manifests his insecurity, what are the chances that he will stop being that way? And if they are both going to act the same way as before with her sleeping around feeding into his jealousy, what are the chances that their relationship will be any better the second time around?

People have been known to change, even for the better. I took it the optimistic way in that this experience changed them and they realized that even when they tried (and went to such drastic measures) to forget each other, they always found each other. I would think that experience would change them and maybe history wouldn't repeat itself.

My husband and I are opposites, not to the point where we are incompatible, but just to a point where it colors our lives and makes it interesting. I have friends that never fight, never argue, always agree, and it just seems so boring to me. There's no passion there. My husband and I agree on the most important things in life, and that's what matters to us. I like someone who challenges me, and he certainly does. We challenge each other. That's not to say that if you are very much alike, you can't challenge each other. I just haven't seen it in the example of my friends. I couldn't be in a relationship like that.

So it's what works for you (collective you). No way is right or wrong.

"I have all these dreams where I know exactly what to say. And you tell me, you know, that you forgive me."

Megs wrote:
My husband and I are opposites, not to the point where we are incompatible, but just to a point where it colors our lives and makes it interesting. I have friends that never fight, never argue, always agree, and it just seems so boring to me. There's no passion there. My husband and I agree on the most important things in life, and that's what matters to us. I like someone who challenges me, and he certainly does. We challenge each other. That's not to say that if you are very much alike, you can't challenge each other. I just haven't seen it in the example of my friends. I couldn't be in a relationship like that.

So it's what works for you (collective you). No way is right or wrong.

I completely agree with you Megs! the best relationship I was in was with someone my complete opposite. but we were opposite in a good way. in a way, we made one perfect person. he was outgoing and stubborn, while I was quiet and giving, and so on. we taught each other a great deal, and I learned the most from that relationship than any other. and not just about relationships, but about life in general. he really opened my eyes to another world. the next guy I dated could have been the female version of myself. and in the end, it didn't work. he was a sweetheart, but our time together was really boring. we had all the same interests and had travelled to all the same places. it was like dating myself. and why would I want to do that? but of course, that is just how it is with me.

My parents are like that - Dad is extroverted, social, & somewhat spontaeous... while my mom is more introverted (but still loves to socialize, just on a mellower level) and better at planning out the realistic logistics of things. They balance each other out. Dad brings out things in Mom and Mom brings out things in Dad. Seems to be working 26 years & two kids later!

Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

Kristin wrote:I understand what you mean, candygirl. I find myself intensely attracted to guys who are (maybe) emotionally unavailable... I don't know, it's hard to describe. But I know myself, and I know that in the long run when it comes time to think about marriage, I am going to want a husband who is confident in himself and available to me emotionally - more similar to my temperment. I think perhaps I find myself attracted to the emotionally unavailable guys right now because I don't want huge huge attachment at this time in my life. I can't think about marriage yet - I'm not even out of college. And as hot as I think these guys are, I don't want any of them to be my boyfriend. They would really piss me off as a boyfriend! I've seen examples of opposites attract that work and examples that don't.

Yet more evidence that women like jerks. You're not looking for bf and if the guy turns out to be really nice and into you, calling you twice a day, always on time, sending you flowers, you pull back and let him down easy. You can't just have a good time with him, he's too nice, you don't want to hurt him. In terms of marriage you don't want a jerk, you'll eventually settle down with Mr. Reliable, and fantisize about the weekend you had with the baseball player or the guy you met at your friends wedding that you didn't even know his last name. I was a nice guy once, all us jerks were at one point, and our dirty little secret, is on some level, we'd like to be that nice guy again. But we do what gets us results, and when we finally decide to settle down we end up combining the two.

"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts

Nothingman wrote:Yet more evidence that women like jerks. You're not looking for bf and if the guy turns out to be really nice and into you, calling you twice a day, always on time, sending you flowers, you pull back and let him down easy. You can't just have a good time with him, he's too nice, you don't want to hurt him. In terms of marriage you don't want a jerk, you'll eventually settle down with Mr. Reliable, and fantisize about the weekend you had with the baseball player or the guy you met at your friends wedding that you didn't even know his last name. I was a nice guy once, all us jerks were at one point, and our dirty little secret, is on some level, we'd like to be that nice guy again. But we do what gets us results, and when we finally decide to settle down we end up combining the two.

Nothingman: I don't think the guys I get attracted to (the emotionally unavailable ones) want a girlfriend right now, though. That's the thing - they are the same as me in that way. I never said I DO anything with those guys! I just find them interesting, and I flirt a little maybe. I think there is a huge distinction between really dating someone/being involved with them/being seriously interested in a real relationship with them... and just flirting a little. When it comes to wanting a real boyfriend, I want Mr. Nice Guy - and I will never "just settle" when it comes to a husband. Why would I waste my time with a jerk? I've thought about dating the jerks before, and I always get uncomfortable with even the thought of it. I want a boyfriend that gets along with my friends & family, that I can take out in public and be proud of, not embarrassed by. Maybe I just haven't been out in the dating world that long, but I luckily haven't experienced jerks that much in my dating life. Maybe that's why it's intriguing to me - because I haven't had it. Not that I really want it all the time in reality, necessarily. I can always ask my Good-Guy boyfriend to do a little role playing with me!

One could always argue that men like b*tches, too, which I have certainly observed with my male buddies & some of their girlfriends.

Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.

The emotionally unavaliable guys don't want a gf, they're just out having a good time. I didn't mean to imply that you would do anything with them since you have a bf, I was meaning if you were single and dating. My point is these are the types of guys most women are attracted to if they are dating and not trying to find a bf. I think part of it is the challenge that they are unavaliable.

"To come to your senses, you must first go out of your mind." - Alan Watts

No, but even if I was without a boyfriend (I consider myself single, since I'm not married) I would not be seriously interested in persuing those guys, just flirting a little. But maybe that's just me - I'm a bit of a flirt. I'm saying that men are equally attracted to women that are unavailable, I think. Women are trained also to not appear too interested in a man that they ARE interested in. I agree with you, Nothingman. I just think it applies to men, too.

Um, in my room, one seam is a little off and I stare at it constantly. It's, like, destroying me.