License plate recognition being used.

Gold Member

Whats your thoughts on this technology?
Reason I ask is last Friday had a friend get pulled over. 2 cop cars and 4 officers.. He didn't get pulled over for violating any traffic laws, they just wanted his license because his name came up as having a warrant in the computer.
Apparently they were behind him, ran his plate then followed him until he was almost to his house and flipped the lights on then.
Turns out there was a guy with same name but different SS number who had the warrant and not my friend.
He asked my advice and I told him the first ones a freebie for them. If it happens again then it's harassment and to sue. Of course going through the legal process is time consuming and expensive.

Midas Member

I've mentioned here before a time I was driving my mother's car (8 years back or so) when I got pulled. Here in French Canuckistan, not only do the cops have access to your wants and warrants, they're directly linked to the SAAQ (our DMV). His auto plate scan showed the car belonged to a woman, not the bearded freak behind the wheel. Turns out they're also using facial recognition. In Quebec, women aren't allowed to take their husband's name when they marry. Even if you were married 20 years before coming to Quebec, they still force the woman to use their maiden name. Well, since our last names don't match, I didn't appear in the records as connected ... so they pulled me over. I expect their records now have us linked as I haven't been pulled for the same 'offense' since.

Democracy can't work. Mathematicians, peasants, and animals, that's all there is - so democracy, a theory based on the assumption that mathematicians and peasants are equal, can never work. Wisdom is not additive; its maximum is that of the wisest man in a given group. "But a democratic form of government is okay, as long as it doesn't work. Any social organization does well enough if it isn't rigid. The framework doesn't matter as long as there is enough looseness to permit that one man in a multitude to display his genius. Most so-called social scientists seem to think that organization is everything. It is almost nothing - except when it is a straitjacket. It is the incidence of heroes that counts, not the pattern of zeros. - Robert A. Heinlein

Gold Member

Most cops are arrogant and dumb. They behave as though they're incapable of error, then when it's proven they're in error they seldom admit they made an error. I was nearly arrested once due to a suspended license warrant issued in a city in which I'd never been. Turns out the cops read my name wrong back to dispatch and came up with a warrant for a guy that 100% did not match my physical description, car, driver's license #, SS # or any other corroborating information. Plus they had me right there telling them they were wrong, but none of that mattered...because obviously I was lying and they were too lazy and stupid to double check their information.

Long story short, I had to give them several hundred dollars cash to avoid wrongful arrest and extradition. Then it took me nearly six months to get the cash back...not even an apology. I just avoid idiot doughnut eaters at every opportunity, nothing good ever comes from interacting with brain damaged parasites that think they're doing good.

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Midas Member

"... had a friend get pulled over....his name came up as having a warrant in the computer...."
The police don't have license plate owner info which includes DOB and SS# as well as name.
Amazing.
In any case, around here, many cars don't have license plates.

Midas Member

I got a bill for a bridge toll--for a car that I has sold to a large dealer 3.5 month before.
I called the gov't toll company:
They said that I had to prove to them that I had sold the car.
OK, but, I was surprised that the gov't could be that slow...if that was the problem...

Splodey-Headed

"... had a friend get pulled over....his name came up as having a warrant in the computer...."
The police don't have license plate owner info which includes DOB and SS# as well as name.
Amazing.
In any case, around here, many cars don't have license plates.

"They will be pulled out root and branch and fed in a wood chipper of divine justice. Their arrogant criminality have OUTRAGED the citizens of this republic and the vengeance of God will wipe the Luciferian smirks from their face and grind their brazen foreheads into dust! "

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens - Notebook, 1904​

Splodey-Headed

I got a bill for a bridge toll--for a car that I has sold to a large dealer 3.5 month before.
I called the gov't toll company:
They said that I had to prove to them that I had sold the car.
OK, but, I was surprised that the gov't could be that slow...if that was the problem...

"They will be pulled out root and branch and fed in a wood chipper of divine justice. Their arrogant criminality have OUTRAGED the citizens of this republic and the vengeance of God will wipe the Luciferian smirks from their face and grind their brazen foreheads into dust! "

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens - Notebook, 1904​

Splodey-Headed

By giving your "name and Birth Date" or handing an "ID" you are identifying as a corporate fiction, a U.S. Citizen, and are thus contracting (submitting to their jurisdiction) to alow them to enforce their regulations upon you.

"They will be pulled out root and branch and fed in a wood chipper of divine justice. Their arrogant criminality have OUTRAGED the citizens of this republic and the vengeance of God will wipe the Luciferian smirks from their face and grind their brazen foreheads into dust! "

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens - Notebook, 1904​

Gold Member

By giving your "name and Birth Date" or handing an "ID" you are identifying as a corporate fiction, a U.S. Citizen, and are thus contracting (submitting to their jurisdiction) to alow them to enforce their regulations upon you.

Yea but its better than being taxed or shot for disobeying a lawful order. LOL.
That lawful order BS is something thats only about 15-20 years old too. Never heard of it before. Not since I was in the military. There i am Gov property though and subject to lawful orders. As a civilian I am unsure how I am under obligation to follow lawful orders.

Splodey-Headed

Yea but its better than being taxed or shot for disobeying a lawful order. LOL.
That lawful order BS is something thats only about 15-20 years old too. Never heard of it before. Not since I was in the military. There i am Gov property though and subject to lawful orders. As a civilian I am unsure how I am under obligation to follow lawful orders.

"They will be pulled out root and branch and fed in a wood chipper of divine justice. Their arrogant criminality have OUTRAGED the citizens of this republic and the vengeance of God will wipe the Luciferian smirks from their face and grind their brazen foreheads into dust! "

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens - Notebook, 1904​

heads up-butts down

I should muti-quote but that would require effort so I will just tell ya all about my little foray into Supreme Court Cases on false arrest.

Every one and I mean every one where the/a - cop/s arrested someone on a false claim why the police were held blameless. Not kidding, and I read hundreds. So if'n you/me are putting down the right of ways and get tagged then the cop knows he will face nothing; hence the cop out "I was just doing my job, man." And, they do know this so the best thing I can think of is make the point and deal with it because "Embarrassment" in Court is a whole lot sweeter.

Now as for lawful orders, one has to be under arrest. Sure the bubble gum lights mean a arrest but it does not mean you have to contract it is first and foremost a safety thing. There is the rub between detained and arrested which requires investigation on the cops part. My advise? Make um work for it as here in Oregon that ticket or piece of paper is an almost there as far as jurisdiction, the cop will supply the words to cap off the jurisdictional part if you let him/her but while in front of that judge you must defeat the cop. Sure, sure there is no plaintiff or as they call it in California no "Certified Victim." But the rest of us just call it "Fictitious Plaintiff." This is a fraud because there is no one to complain so you shall not use words against yourself.

As, far as License plate readers. Yes we have them here, in fact out on 51 they had these staters going back and forth and there would be a flash as they passed. Smile for the camera :) and this was as they were in the opposite lane. Or it could have been facial recognition IDK. but they have them stupid swordfishes which as I understand it can now be a droid phone in size, at least I think that is what they are called.

Gold Member

Freeport and Long Beach have permanent license plate readers mounted on all roads into and out of their jurisdictions. I pass them all the time.

Freeport was crying because they didn't realize how much data was coming in when they first started and were asking for help to wade through all of the data. They now share out the information to other LE agencies.

"No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session." -- New York State Surrogate Court Judge Gideon John Tucker, Final Accounting in the Estate of A.B._, 1, Tucker (N.Y. Surrogate Court) 247, 249 (1866)

Gold Member

LPR cameras and software have been in place for over a decade. You can thank King Bush II and his "Patriot Act" and new found alphabet soup agency Department of Homeland Security for that. It was once estimated that installing a camera and supporting software network costs over $20K per patrol vehicle...guess who paid for that...yes, the US taxpayer. Us law-abiding citizens needed to be tracked with LPR and face recognition because we were being overrun by terriorists at the time and we needed to be protected {SARCASM}.

On the flip side, if LPR technology is constitutionally and judiciously used to catch legitimate criminals, such as carjackers, kidnappers, felons, thieves etc. it could have some benefits. I don't appreciate my vehicle being scanned like I'm guilty before being proven innocent, however. Nor do I approve of my location and time being stored for up to 90 days...that is none of .gov's business.

Gold Member

I don't appreciate my vehicle being scanned like I'm guilty before being proven innocent, however. Nor do I approve of my location and time being stored for up to 90 days...that is none of .gov's business.

Just need to find a method to defeat the technology. Seeing as they rely so heavily on technology, if you can learn how to defeat it, you will mostly become invisible to them unless you blatantly commit an offense directly in an officers line of sight.

Gold Member

My friend stopped by today on his way home from his dads house about an hr south of me. He got pulled over again. Same issue, someone with same name has an outstanding warrant. No other reason to pull him over.
Weird coincidence but cop said the other guys SS number is only 1 digit off of my friends. In any event, thats twice in 8 days now.
It seem unreasonable to me. 1) If i am a passenger in a car I have no requirement to answer question or provide ID to a police office if the car is pulled over. Likewise, if I am walking down the street I can't just be asked for my papers to prove who I am.
2) I can't be pulled over for a secondary offense. In other words I can't be pulled over for no seat belt if that is the one;y violation i am committing. If I am speeding and not wearing a seatbelt than I can be pulled over for speeding and also issued a ticket for no seatbelt.
3) I can't be pulled over for a random search so I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy when traveling down the road.
4) I have read answers on the question posted by lawyers and they say its legal because it's public record. In fact registration is not public record. At least that is my understanding. I can't just call some department with a license plate number and get the info on who owns the car nor can I go to the courthouse and look up the plate and get identity information. Public information to me is that the information can be accessed by the public like court cases. Those are all public information unless sealed or unless they belong to Obama

Any point number 4 is perhaps the most important. This is a search of my private information and as such I should enjoy protection under the 4th amendment. I say I should enjoy that protection but the fact is we should all enjoy that protection.

Gold Member

Your friend should be all over his local federal and state representatives. A law abiding citizen being pulled over twice in 8 days due to clerical mistake that could lead up to a fatal mistake by some over zealous Barney Fife is serious.

"No man's life, liberty or property are safe while the legislature is in session." -- New York State Surrogate Court Judge Gideon John Tucker, Final Accounting in the Estate of A.B._, 1, Tucker (N.Y. Surrogate Court) 247, 249 (1866)

Gold Member

License plate readers are becoming common, I go through Border Patrol checkpoints often and they have an array of different cameras, including what looks like a red lens camera that flashes a shot at every car, and license plate readers. They don't seem to bother me, just ask citizenship - and that is the only question I will answer. One time they asked me where I was coming from, I said driving around in my country. Now, I will just say, thanks but no thanks, I don't answer questions other than the one I'm required to.

I got pulled over by DPS for barely speeding recently, after handing over my DL and License To Carry, and ins. - he got real friendly and said I'm just going to give you a warning. Then he said, 'do you carry a Glock?' I said yes (and was thinking to myself, and a S&W .357, and .22 mag, and a .410 derringer), 'how to you like it?' I like it fine, nice and compact - it's a 43. 'Cool, have a great day,' you too.

Splodey-Headed

My friend stopped by today on his way home from his dads house about an hr south of me. He got pulled over again. Same issue, someone with same name has an outstanding warrant. No other reason to pull him over.
Weird coincidence but cop said the other guys SS number is only 1 digit off of my friends. In any event, thats twice in 8 days now.
It seem unreasonable to me. 1) If i am a passenger in a car I have no requirement to answer question or provide ID to a police office if the car is pulled over. Likewise, if I am walking down the street I can't just be asked for my papers to prove who I am.
2) I can't be pulled over for a secondary offense. In other words I can't be pulled over for no seat belt if that is the one;y violation i am committing. If I am speeding and not wearing a seatbelt than I can be pulled over for speeding and also issued a ticket for no seatbelt.
3) I can't be pulled over for a random search so I do have a reasonable expectation of privacy when traveling down the road.
4) I have read answers on the question posted by lawyers and they say its legal because it's public record. In fact registration is not public record. At least that is my understanding. I can't just call some department with a license plate number and get the info on who owns the car nor can I go to the courthouse and look up the plate and get identity information. Public information to me is that the information can be accessed by the public like court cases. Those are all public information unless sealed or unless they belong to Obama

Any point number 4 is perhaps the most important. This is a search of my private information and as such I should enjoy protection under the 4th amendment. I say I should enjoy that protection but the fact is we should all enjoy that protection.

"They will be pulled out root and branch and fed in a wood chipper of divine justice. Their arrogant criminality have OUTRAGED the citizens of this republic and the vengeance of God will wipe the Luciferian smirks from their face and grind their brazen foreheads into dust! "

In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.
Samuel Langhorne Clemens - Notebook, 1904​

Gold Member

Just to update, he's now been pulled over 4 times in total for the same thing. IMO the first time is a freebie. Update your records so it doesn't happen again. At #4 someone is paying for my lawyer fees and time to put a stop to this.

Harvurd Koleej Jeenyus

I have heard, but do not know for a fact -- that all $prawlmarts have plate scanners in their parking lots to find people of interest. Also they supposedly have facial recognition systems so that even cash purchases are not anonymous. Maybe that's why there are always a couple of cop cars there 24-7.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

heads up-butts down

I have heard, but do not know for a fact -- that all $prawlmarts have plate scanners in their parking lots to find people of interest. Also they supposedly have facial recognition systems so that even cash purchases are not anonymous. Maybe that's why there are always a couple of cop cars there 24-7.

IDK if they are using facial recognition stuff but they are definitely wired for cctv . A friends son did the coax stringing of quite a few stores for quite a few years. In fact that boy was all over the states.

heads up-butts down

cool, just cool! So instead of a light I can smoke my salmon there and the infrared heat will just screw the STATES cameras up, cool! Now what do we do with all the coons and cats getting killed on the road? Oh I got it, just stop and eat ever once and a while.

Point is, it won't even know there's a plate there to read. It's all automated. All it's doing is looking for readable numbers/letters. If it can't see any, as far as it's concerned, there's no plate there at all.

heads up-butts down

Can a camera be blinded by a laser light? We have at our disposal all the tech to acquire and track targets so putting that stuff together and selling it would be cool. One time I was beating feet down the highway and it looked like a cop was aiming at me and I thought 'shit!' He was aiming but he had one of those new fangled laser things. First time I seen one but I always wanted to make something that would just generate radar scatter and miff the cops at their own game.....I could see it now......'95 Subaru clocked at 3KMPH's.

Evidently Prof. is Canadian his "Rights" are limited compared to We the People.
Until the technology NAZIs get all the states on board with the Driver's License/Passport Cards.
"Show us your electronic papers PLEASE" ( in my best German-English).
Then we are screwed just like all other people around the world.

Last edited: Jan 11, 2019

As in the Past it is Today : HELL hath no Fury like a Woman Scorned be it 1 / 2 or 3 Years or One /Two or Three DECADES.
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Harvurd Koleej Jeenyus

The surveillance state will not program its computers to just look for numbers. It will try to do everything in its power to stamp out privacy. I bet that within 15 years, all toilets will have toilet cams and government agents will be paid to watch people crap. Also there will be shitter cops and will issue fines and taxes for going too much or too little or at the wrong times. They will also have instant asshole recognition so they know who to fine.

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. Friedrich Nietzsche

Seeker

The "Shitter surveillance " is already in existence. You put the device in your toilet and it talks to your smart phone. Keeps tabs on your blood sugar and other things. Uploads the info to who knows where .

Well, it does right now. ALPR's are just that. Automatic License Plate Readers.
....and the whole point of them is to not have to have a cop sitting there constantly looking at plates himself. If you drive by an ALPR and all it sees is a bright glare, even if it does signals alert! alert!, by the time a cop arrives to catch you, you'll be long gone.

Also, there's nothing to "get" you for. These are just passive devices collecting license plate numbers.
...and not only cops use them. Repo guys drive around neighborhoods at night looking for repo-able cars.