Yet if there are no guys like Zimmerman- who is of white and Hispanic background- to attack, there is often numbness, an unjustified nothingness when the issue is blacks killing blacks. The civil rights machines don’t crank up, the pulpits seldom roar with vitriolic sermons and editorials crying out loudly for an end to the black-on-black carnage are few and far between. In fact there is such a lack of programs, protest or caring about black kids getting killed, I wonder have their lives ceased to matter at all to the powerbrokers. As Charles Ramsey, Washington’s former police chief reportedly said at a gun forum, “Nobody in this room would have known Trayvon Martin if he had been shot by a black kid.”

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has found that among 10 to 24 year olds, homicide is the leading cause of death for African Americans and other reports show that more than 90 percent of the violence is from other blacks, mostly from guns.

Insofar as their lives “cease to matter to powerbrokers,” both in the black activist community and in the media, it’s because those deaths do not fit into the emotional and ideological narrative preferred by these powerbrokers. It’s why Muslims killed by Israelis are holy martyrs to Muslim activists, but Muslims killed by other Muslims, meh.

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48 Responses to Trayvon Martin, One Year Later

It’s why Muslims killed by Israelis are holy martyrs to Muslim activists, but Muslims killed by other Muslims, meh.

Not necessarily true. It is also because Muslims tend to dislike other Muslims whose theological interpretrations differ from theirs. For example, Sunni Muslims are liable to be outraged by the killing in Syria while ignoring the bombings of Shi’ite Muslims in Quetta.

“the pulpits seldom roar with vitriolic sermons and editorials crying out loudly for an end to the black-on-black carnage are few and far between. In fact there is such a lack of programs, protest or caring about black kids getting killed…”

Not necessarily true. It is also because Muslims tend to dislike other Muslims whose theological interpretrations differ from theirs. For example, Sunni Muslims are liable to be outraged by the killing in Syria while ignoring the bombings of Shi’ite Muslims in Quetta.

Maybe, though what Rod is focusing more on are the professional activist types, who would be screaming for UN sanctions, divestment, protesting Sodastream ads and holding daily marches on assorted campuses if Israel were involved.

Get a bunch of Shia (Iran and Hezbollah) backed Alawites killing thousands of Sunnis in a civil war, and meh…doesn’t fit the narrative and not as cool to protest against. Besides, who would we be supporting if we broke out our kefiyyehs?

I thought This American Life’s most recent new shows, a two-part series on Harper High School in Chicago’s south side, was a welcome and profound example of media playing against type and covering this kind of violence. I was specifically moved by the devotion and talent of the teaching and administrative staff who face, with their students, a terrifying battle–as a matter of routine–every day.

I wonder how much the mass incarceration of black males contributed to this phenomenon. It seems to be a large factor in African-American family stability, poverty, and the culture of crime, and these things all seem to have contributed to the murder rate. Regardless of the causes, the homicide rate of young black men is a tragedy.

She doesn’t go far enough. If Zimmerman was of the exact same racial mix, but his last name was Sanchez or Morales or some such, then the only angle to this story would have been the Stand Your Ground legislation, and there would be no mention of race whatsoever. It’s not just black-on-black violence that’s ignored, it’s general poor minority on poor minority violence. “Zimmerman” made him seem just white enough to be safely condemned by the bien-pensant media.

1. Fact-finding has taken a back seat to maneuver and interminable delays. The meter is running: George Zimmerman’s legal expenses are well into the six figures and one must assume that those of the special prosecutor’s budget is likewise. That this could possibly serve any defensible public purpose will be news to many. (It is doubtful that there is any salient information not available in May of last year). It sometimes seems that the penal courts function to employ attorneys, and for no other reasons.

It’s ironic that this woman uses the comparison of civil rights leaders “standing up to” Bull Connor and George Wallace and now doing the same with the NRA…but this time with the goal to deny people their civil rights.

I am, in fact, sympathetic to the problem she notes–that black neighborhoods in many cities are full of dangerous people with guns who’d be considerably less dangerous if they didn’t have guns–but unfortunately, I suspect that any sort of compromise aimed at disarming only these types of people would be derided as racist by every respectable person on the continent (and many who weren’t). And the river of blood floweth onward.

To be fair, the outrage over the Martin case wasn’t solely because of the races of the actors. There was also a ton of bad police work involved, a tangled web of good-ol-boy’ism on the part of the suburban community that allowed the shooter to act as a pseudo-vigilante, and the massive red herring of “stand your ground” laws being scapegoated by the all-gun-control, all-the-time crowd.

Well, the problem with the “stand-your-ground” laws is that there’s a great incentive to kill the other party and then claim self-defense, because the burden of proof has now shifted to the DA having to prove that what you did WASN’T self-defense. So you can make up whatever story you want, and unless the DA can show that it is false, you can get away with it.

I wonder how much the mass incarceration of black males contributed to this phenomenon. It seems to be a large factor in African-American family stability, poverty, and the culture of crime, and these things all seem to have contributed to the murder rate. Regardless of the causes, the homicide rate of young black men is a tragedy.

In 1980, there were about 9 million nominally adult black men in the United States. Around about 160,000 were in prison at any one time. There was no shortage of family instability and poverty in slum neighborhoods at that time, and a good deal more crime.

By the way, those admitted to state and federal prisons serve a mean of 30 months therein. About 670,000 people enter state and federal prisons each year. About 2.1 million are placed on probation. Some how I do not think the court system is as brutal as it is made out to be.

To be fair, the outrage over the Martin case wasn’t solely because of the races of the actors. There was also a ton of bad police work involved, a tangled web of good-ol-boy’ism on the part of the suburban community that allowed the shooter to act as a pseudo-vigilante, and the massive red herring of “stand your ground” laws being scapegoated by the all-gun-control, all-the-time crowd.

You don’t know what you are talking about. There is not one correct characterization in that statement.

George Zimmerman was the neighborhood watch captain. He called a non-emergency dispatcher to report a suspicious person in his neighborhood. Recordings of that conversation are available online as are maps of the complex where he lived with scale marks. During the course of the conversation, Trayvon Martin loped past Zimmerman’s truck, headed up a nearby walkway (referred to as a ‘cut-through’ in the conversation), and then, a propos of nothing very clear, abruptly ran out of sight into an alleyway bounded by the back entrances of two paralell sets of town houses. The distance between George Zimmerman’s truck and the back door of Trayvon Martin’s temporary residence could be traversed in just shy of two minutes at an ordinary walking pace. The distance from the point where he ducked out of sight to that back door can be run in about 15 seconds.

Zimmerman got out of his truck and jogged over to the point where Martin disappeared. The conversation with the dispatcher made clear that the purpose was to keep Martin in eyeshot. The dispatcher, who is not a police officer, said, ‘we don’t need you to do that’. Zimmerman replies “OK’, and, as can be heard in the background, resumes a walking pace. The whole point was moot; Zimmerman never caught sight of Martin again during the course of the conversation and said explicitly he did not know where Martin might be hiding. He continued walking on the ‘cut-through’ to the next street over, and gave his contact information to the dispatcher so the police due to arrive could get hold of him. He then concluded the conversation. The confrontation with Martin seems to have occurred about 2.5 minutes later while Zimmerman was schlepping around the complex. This is the reckless vigilante you are talking about. Keep in mind, there was never at any time an impediment to Trayvon Martin returning home in short order and nothing to do in the alleyway he was hiding in other than walk your dog and smoke cigarettes.

Well, the problem with the “stand-your-ground” laws is that there’s a great incentive to kill the other party and then claim self-defense, because the burden of proof has now shifted to the DA having to prove that what you did WASN’T self-defense. So you can make up whatever story you want, and unless the DA can show that it is false, you can get away with it.

It was better when we had the duty-to-retreat laws.

And your remarks are relevant how? Trayvon Martin had two sets of injuries: some abrasions on one set of knuckles such as you might get punching someone, and a single gunshot wound. George Zimmerman had a broken nose and lacerations on the back of his head. Eyewitness statements made clear he was on his back while Martin was bashing his head into the concrete. He had nowhere to which to retreat. You can fancy Zimmerman started the fight, but that is a conjecture unsupported by any injuries either had.

“I wonder how much the mass incarceration of black males contributed to this phenomenon.”

You have the causality backward. Black males are incarcerated at a wildly disproportional rate because they commit a wildly disproportional rate of crime in this country (and the UK, and Canada). Over the last 20-30 years, we have been locking up a greater percentage of the population as a whole and black males in particular. Over that period crime has dropped. From what I’ve read, criminologies attribute about 25% of that drop to locking more people up.

Mr. Zimmerman is not me. While I may vent out about shanaigans, I am not known for confronting anyone by the way they look or anyone for that matter in such a manner. Nor did Mr. Zimmerman’s behavior reflect that of his fellow neighborhood watch.

Mr. Martin, doesn’t reflect an ordinary kid, unless you men the ordinary kids in his particular neighborhood. I am not sure how many six foot youths resist adult challenges. even when unwarranted.

As for the article itself, I think she missed the target. Sandyhook is the real social comparison, before we have a discussion on guns, a number of white upper middle class residents must be directly effected, otherwise, assault weapons, semi-autos, hand guns, rifles . . . as to discussion and policy would be mute as well as moot.

I think she is right, that if not for his parents challenge and the skin color issue Trayvon Martin would be an article in some reaserch issue on crime and society.

I think the good reverend and Rod are quite mistaken. One of the effects of black-on-black violence has been the popularity of gun control in the black community, including such schemes as gun buyback programs, and another has been the retention of considerable black support for the War on Drugs. Also, I doubt that my area is the only one whter the local mainstream media is filled with stories about community activists and churches trying to “End the Violence” and combat the “Gang Problem”

The undisciplined passions which find one outlet in sex find another in crime. There were in Richmond in one recent year thirty-four homicide cases; of these, twenty-eight were killings of Negroes by Negroes. It was a wholly typical year. The evidence in these cases follows a constant and elemental pattern: The unfaithful woman, the triflin’ man; a fancied wrong, a bloody vengeance. Yet as often as not, the evidence discloses no reason—no white man’s reason—that conceivably might justify murder: A quarrel, not even a serious quarrel, and suddenly a razor flashes or a gun explodes. Monday morning in a Southern police court is a strange recital of Saturday nights in Jackson Ward. What was the fight about? The defendant is mystified. “Me and Willie,” he says winningly, “we’s friends, judge.” And where is Willie? He lies in St. Philip Hospital, with forty-two stitches in his side.

Mr. Zimmerman is not me. While I may vent out about shanaigans, I am not known for confronting anyone by the way they look or anyone for that matter in such a manner. Nor did Mr. Zimmerman’s behavior reflect that of his fellow neighborhood watch.

1. The audio file is available online, and, indubitably transcripts are as well. The conversation between Zimmerman and the dispatcher was quite unremarkable. Zimmerman got out of the car to attempt to keep Martin in eyeshot and, that project having failed, then walked to the next street to check an address so the dispatcher would know where to send the patrol car. There was no confrontation in the course of the conversation. The confrontation between Zimmerman and Martin occured at a point half-way between the address reported and Zimmerman’s truck. It would appear from the timeline that Zimmerman took a circuit around the block or loitered a while near the street address he gave to the dispatcher and then headed back to his vehicle. There are no earwitnesses or eyewitnesses who can establish that Zimmerman ever confronted Martin and no ready explanation as to why Martin did not simply return home. There is some evidence that Martin attacked Zimmerman.

Mr. Martin, doesn’t reflect an ordinary kid, unless you men the ordinary kids in his particular neighborhood. I am not sure how many six foot youths resist adult challenges. even when unwarranted.

Again, nothing has emerged thus far to contradict Zimmerman’s account, which is that Martin spoke to him first and Martin slugged him. None of the witness statements which have come to light establish who started the fight and the pattern of injuries indicate it was most likely Martin. (Implicit in many complaints about Zimmerman is a notion that black youths should have a franchise to beat up people they fancy have treated them with disrespect – e.g. looking at them quizzically and saying ‘what are you doing here?’)

@Art Deco – the illegitimacy rate among African Americans in 1980 was around 50%. It is 70% today. 1/3 of African american males spend time in prison. About 95% of people convicted of crimes did not have a jury trial. We have the highest incarceration rate in the world and in history. Stuntz is worth reading on this issue.

While crime has plummeted on average since its peak in the 90′s, the decrease has not been uniform over all communities. White, non-hispanic americans commit and are victims of crime at rates comparable to western Europe – the breakdown for homicide by race/ethnicity put it 18/12/.9 per 100,000 for blacks, hispanics, and non-hispanic whites respectively. The drop has been sharper for non-hispanic whites as well (largely because this population is getting older faster).

Obviously the causes of the pathologies affecting the black community (high murder rate, fatherless homes, etc…) aren’t a simple reversible process even if the cause were as simple high incarceration rates (i.e. opening the prison doors will not magically end black on black crime). I don’t mean to understate the very real gains that african americans have gained since the end of the Jim Crow era nor oversimplify the complex causes of black inequality. But I am not optimistic about our society making any progress on closing the gap between white and black until our criminal justice is thoroughly reformed (a necessary if not sufficient condition). It is something we should all care about – not just in a moralistic golden rule sort of way (though that matters!) but also in a very pragmatic – this is a huge waste of human capital sort of way.

Can George Zimmerman get a fair trial? Or better yet, should he get one? The test of any so-called “civil rights” advocacy gets that question first. And so far, leftist idiot machines like MSNBC/ NBC don’t believe he should. The lasting story here is about the attempted railroading of Zimmerman. Hopefully, his jury will not be intimidated to do justice. Or he is simply guilty of SWW or “shooting while white”.

As others have noted there is plenty of work being done about black on black youth violence.

However, a lot of of it is not being done by the high profile civil rights organizations, but by local community leaders, preachers in local storefront churches, city council members, and such. These people don’t send their press releases to the national newspapers and websites, so you don’t see their work in the lights as much as the Trayvon business.

There are really two groups of black activists – the national, well funded ones who have taken up the Trayvon case, and the local ones who have been dealing violence for decades now.

Oh, an Officer AND a Gentleman. Solemnly sworn to uphold the Charter and the Bylaws of the Homeowners’ Association.

“The distance between George Zimmerman’s truck and the back door of Trayvon Martin’s temporary residence could be traversed in just shy of two minutes at an ordinary walking pace. The distance from the point where he ducked out of sight to that back door can be run in about 15 seconds.”

We wouldn’t want people whose fathers live in a place to start loitering around their fathers’ homes, would we?

“The dispatcher, who is not a police officer, said, ‘we don’t need you to do that’.”

The Dispatcher: not even a sworn police officer. Certainly not in position to give orders or even advice to a duly-appointed Captain of The Neighborhood Watch, O-3. Full Bird O-6 at the Marina.

“He then concluded the conversation. The confrontation with Martin seems to have occurred about 2.5 minutes later while Zimmerman was schlepping around the complex.”

In fear for his life, yet conscious of the cost of dispatching precious Police resources to protect him. Nothing but his sidearm. Above and beyond the call of duty, even what we’ve come to expect from our elite Neighborhood Watchmen.

“This is the reckless vigilante you are talking about.”

You call him a reckless vigilate, but the truth is, his gallantry was only made possible by the brave men and women of the Florida Legislature and the tireless lobbying firms employed by the National Rifle Association. No man is an island. And men like Cpt. Zimmerman will be the first to say so.

When I was in law school, we were taught that the State always has the burden of proving every element of a crime, and that beyond reasonable doubt. When an affirmative defense is raised, the Defendant bears the burden only of introducing evidence in support of that defense. At that point, the burden is on the State to disprove the defense, and that beyond reasonable doubt.

With or without a “stand your ground” law, George Zimmerman has available to him a claim of self-defense, and, having presented his case, the burden shifts to the State to prove, beyond reasonable doubt, that his actions were not justified.

Stand Your Ground laws are counter-productive in that insofar as they are intended to discourage crime, they actually promote unnecessary escalations and violence in any given confrontation. More people will end up dying because of them, not less. The victim of a hold-up will be encouraged to try to whip out his own gun and get himself shot in the process. A street criminal who merely threatens his victims rather than inflicting harm will end up dead instead of in jail. Both scenarios are completely avoidable if people understand that the right thing to do is to defuse a potentially violent situation, not escalate it. Stand Your Ground laws promote the opposite approach.

George Zimmerman instigated a confrontation with Trayvon Martin by, essentially, stalking him, to the point of getting out of his car to follow him on foot. At this point, who would blame Trayvon Martin for feeling threatened? You’re outside alone, at night, and there’s an adult male who is obviously following you. What’s your first thought? I guarantee you it’s not “Oh, that must be the local neighborhood watch.” No, you’re going to think he’s a mugger or something even worse.

The real irony (and tragedy) is that, if @Art Deco’s implied sequence of events is what really occurred (and I am not so sure it is), it was Mr. Martin even more so than Mr. Zimmerman who truly acted in the spirit of the Stand Your Ground laws by confronting his stalker instead of simply leaving the area, and in the end he got killed for his trouble.

Tragedies like the death of Mr. Martin are what happens when people are empowered to use violence as a means of ending confrontations. That is why Stand Your Ground laws are, at heart, bad policy. More violence, not less, will their result.

From your house to the White House and beyond, we have a societal problem with believing there is a case for pre-emptive assassinations.

Your remarks are relevant how Fran Macadam? You wish to argue that the law requires a charge of manslaughter or criminally negligent homicide due to the sequence of events, make your case. Someone who is on his back getting his head smacked repeatedly into the concrete is not being pro-active when he defends himself with a weapon he has on hand.

those deaths do not fit into the emotional and ideological narrative preferred by these powerbrokers

What a trite, banal way to throw a layer of corrosion over a heartfelt, timely commentary. It would have been better to just let the black clergywoman’s words speak for themselves.

Zimmerman provoked a confrontation that would not have occurred but for his willful action. His crime is probably far short of murder one, but it may be as high as manslaughter.

While there is plenty of energy devoted to ending the patterns that create the high rate at which Americans of African descent kill each other, it’s true that the names of most of those victims do not become national headlines like Martin did.

White power afficianados don’t want to hear this, but conditioning during some centuries of enslavement (not excluding the way massa raped any woman he wanted on the place) left behind a culture of “I ain’t nothing, you ain’t nothing, she a b****.”

Black power afficianados don’t want to hear this, but no volume of apologies from whitey are going to fix that. People who identify as “black” have to recognize this for the legacy of slavery it is, throw it away, and learn to walk proudly, value skill and ambition, respect themselves and others.

That’s one thing Elijah Muhammad got right, even if he got several other things wrong. If Malcolm X had lived, it might have happened, and gangsta rap would never have emerged.

The model is the opening of Battle of Algiers… not setting off bombs, but cleaning up the moral quality of the subjugated community. Ali gunned down his former patron, the wealthy drug dealer who had paid off the French cops. The makers of Superfly glorified him as the one with a plan to stick it to the man. See where that got us?

not only are you off on some tangent beyond my comments I have no idea why.

I am not contending the case. Mr. Zimmerman at some confronted Mr Martin. Whether his confrontation was justified is another matter.

But neither of these gentlemen reflect ordniary men in my view. Ordinary men, if you want to engage in the specifics, adhere to police advisories as to their safetyt. Mr. Zimmirman, did not heed said advice. In addition your comments based on an audio file do not provide any detail as to the events. It’s an audio file. It does not give location. IOt does not provide direction of travel. And whether or not they were between the truck or not is inconsequential. Did Mr. Zimmerman, confront Mr. Martin. Period, there is no dispute about said confrontation. Did he follow Mr. Martin? He did. Did such behavior constitute a threat? Who initriated contact and was said contact an acty by self defense? None of that is determined by an audio file.

Art Deco,

your accounts are but fantasy. All indications are that Mr. Zimmierman initiated all contact with an individual who was not engage in any violation of the law or threat to himself or property.

No one is duly appointed to oblige a neighborhood watch anything. The procedure to identify was not initiated. Even a police officer is obliged to make himself aknown and even to state his business. A civilian acting alone in what could be a threatening sitution is no less bound. I think it is pretty clear that Mr. Zimmerman initiated this incident on his own. In violation of neighborhood watch and police advisories to the same.

I did not want to engage the matter as the facts, but your response is so blank as to the facts. But if you are able to explain the contradictions as to the police report, the audio file, Mr. Zimmerman’s own statements which seem to be in conflict on several key points to both the audio file, you are resting on and the police report, have at it.

In my mind whether Mr. Martin was black or green is really of no consequence. Everyone is entitled to walk where they will unless it is private property. In other anyone going to the store and home is entitled to free and unimpeded travel unless so warranted by a duly appointed officer of the court. And said officer is bound by federal, state and local ordinaces as to said interference.

Now what will happen in the courtroom is anyones’ guess. But my prima facie view is that Mr. Zimmerman, made a mistake and said mistake cost the life of another. I have no clue whether the shootiong was malicious and I am not sure it matters. But what is clear is that Young Mr. Martin did not initiate or seek out a confrontation. He may have responded to one. But if you start a fight and end up on the losing end, you don’t get to claim self defense.

There is no indication that Mr. Zimmerman’s life was at stake, accept according to his account. What we do know is the Mr. Martin did not have a weapon. So self defense is going to a rather dubious defense. Had the young man had a weapon, I might hesitate, but short of that . . .

I understand your desire to claim self defense here and defend the ‘stand your ground’ defense. I think having to go through gymnastics to defend a gun owner who needlessly places himself in harmsway, has a weapon, and ends up on the short end of an engagement he started by an unarmed person, indicates a lack of training, and someone you would not want on your team.

But I understand the scenario creation to defend a fellow gun owner, even if said gun owner, by all indications, went for a weapon when he should have gone for his car keys and gone elsewhere, like home. I have no problem with owning a weapon. I have no issues with people defending themselves. But it must be a defensive situtaion created by someone other than you.

“he thing that made Martin’s death stand out is the fact that he was shot and killed by a white guy:”
except that Zimmerman isn’t white. that was done by the MSM press. he is part black and he is Hispanic

“There is no indication that Mr. Zimmerman’s life was at stake, accept according to his account. ”

really have you not seen the COLOR photos taken by the police take the night of the incident. the blood on the back of Zimmerman’s head, the broken bloodied nose?
tell me that you wouldn’t fear for your life if someone is sitting on your chest pounding you face with his fists and bouncing your head against the concrete pavement while that individual is also grabbing for your gun. nope not fear for life at all

How exactly do you walk back to your car and drive away when someone is sitting on top of you and slamming your head into a sidewalk?

Why exactly do you believe that a young man can assault anybody who he perceives as a threat?

I know the need for a Great White Defendant hinders peoples’ ability to think coherently but please understand that hundreds of thousands of hours were spent talking about this on television. The average black on black murder is 2 minutes on the local news.

All those local rallies and meetings mean nothing because they don’t fit the narrative agenda of the mainstream press which is evil white man killing helpless minorities (they couldn’t even find a white guy, Zimmerman being Peruvian).

What I’d like to know is how the media still, after the three-fer of the Giffords shooting, the Zimmerman case, and Newtown, has the slightest bit of credibility remaining. PT Barnum must have had Americans’ number.

George Zimmerman instigated a confrontation with Trayvon Martin by, essentially, stalking him, to the point of getting out of his car to follow him on foot. At this point, who would blame Trayvon Martin for feeling threatened? You’re outside alone, at night, and there’s an adult male who is obviously following you. What’s your first thought? I guarantee you it’s not “Oh, that must be the local neighborhood watch.” No, you’re going to think he’s a mugger or something even worse.

The real irony (and tragedy) is that, if @Art Deco’s implied sequence of events is what really occurred (and I am not so sure it is), it was Mr. Martin even more so than Mr. Zimmerman who truly acted in the spirit of the Stand Your Ground laws by confronting his stalker instead of simply leaving the area, and in the end he got killed for his trouble.

C.L.H. Daniels. Not a whole lot in these two paragraphs that has a demonstrable reality outside your imagination.

George Zimmerman got out of his truck and walked around his own bloody neighborhood. The telephone call to the dispatcher was recorded and it is quite clear that he never caught sight of Trayvon Martin during the entire time he was on the phone walking from his truck to the street of town houses one block over. Even if he intended to ‘stalk’ him, he was not able to do so.

And, again, another example of this. Martin is accorded a franchise in your mind to beat up a local resident because he does not like the way the man looked at him while talking on the phone in his pick up truck and does not like the fact that he is walking around the neighborhood. I really am not inclined to accord adolescents of any description that sort of discretion.

Zimmerman provoked a confrontation that would not have occurred but for his willful action. His crime is probably far short of murder one, but it may be as high as manslaughter.

S. Jenkins, nothing George Zimmerman did as recorded in his call to the dispatcher can be fairly described as ‘provoking a confrontation’; the two never exchanged words at all. The confrontation occurred about 2.5 minutes after the call concluded and it is not clear from the word of any disinterested party who did what in the exchange of words and blows which followed and even the lousy grandstanding prosecutor did not offer a sequence of events in the bill of particulars. What is known is that one of them had injuries consistent with being beaten on and one of them did not; one of them was observed on the ground getting his head bashed, and one was observed on top doing the bashing.

your accounts are but fantasy. All indications are that Mr. Zimmierman initiated all contact with an individual who was not engage in any violation of the law or threat to himself or property.

No, they are not fantasy, EliteComm. The audio files are available online for your perusal. There is no confrontation recorded therein. The interview the prosecutor de la Rionda had with someone Trayvon Martin was talking to on the phone with was also online at one point and unilluminating. The neighbors who called 911 did not see or hear anything definitive concerning the opening lines of the argument. They just saw and heard Zimmerman getting his head bashed.