my friend i went climbing on sunday at strubens valley 22oct2006 and well my mazda got broken into and my friends car [also a mazda] got stolen from the parking area. we heard alarms but we thought it was just the houses in the area, there is a house there that alarm just keeps going off. [cry wolf story comes to mind]

so be careful if you decide to go climbing there.
we let the cops know about the guys living in the cave, but they did not care much. i really dont trust those guys much and i fear they might do something to the climbers that climb there.

Same thing happens here quite a bit, at a particular crag which is a break-in hot-spot. Best bet is the following:

- Don't leave anything valuable in the car.
- Disconnect your distributor cable and take it with you.
- Leave your doors unlocked.
- Leave your windows slightly open.
- Leave a sarmie and a coke for the oke.
- Will save you a buck or two in the long run, and you'll keep your no-claim bonus
- You may have to beat the bergie sleeping on your back seat with a hex...or just ask him nicely to leave (keep big can of air-freshener in the car).

With this method I haven't had a break in (none necessary), or theft, yet.

it happend around 3ish, sucks big time, i was thinking that now that they know how easy it is they might try it again, i think that if anyone wants to climb there they should have some one watch there cars. i just dont trust that place anymore.

what can be done about this? Perhaps the solution is to go in a large group and on the way pick up 2 or 3 guys to act as guards? pay them R20/hour.

question tho...legally, what would the situation be if you 'employed' a person to watch your car [ie.as in a situation above] and the person got injured trying to protect your vehicle? would you be liable for the persons expenses because of this short term contract? I suppose it would be the same as employing a person to mow your lawn and the blade flying off and injuring this person.

This really sucks though. I have pretty much given up climbing altogether as I have a really cool car and I'm not willing to risk it by parking in a dodgy spot. Something needs to be done though cos strubens is the only spot we have. I have also heard that Northcliff hill has a lot of break-ins at the parking lot.

Since reactive measures are possibly dangerous, or morally wrong, and not much is likely to be done by our current police force, I suggest a proactive measure.

JonoJ wrote:Sorry to hear about that mate.

Same thing happens here quite a bit, at a particular crag which is a break-in hot-spot. Best bet is the following:

- Don't leave anything valuable in the car. - Disconnect your distributor cable and take it with you. - Leave your doors unlocked. - Leave your windows slightly open. - Leave a sarmie and a coke for the oke. - Will save you a buck or two in the long run, and you'll keep your no-claim bonus - You may have to beat the bergie sleeping on your back seat with a hex...or just ask him nicely to leave (keep big can of air-freshener in the car).

With this method I haven't had a break in (none necessary), or theft, yet.

sure, but what fun is driving then? I cant think of anything worse than driving around this HUGE country in a piece of crap that'll most likely break down at some point and put you in a worse position, and let's not even think about your safety if you have an accident in a 'kak', unsafe budget Italian car.

And those other ideas are just so proactive!hahahahahaaaaaaaa, ja sure, I'm gonna leave my car unlocked and a sarmie for the dude! oh and I'll keep some air freshener for when I chase the bum off my back seat. Come on, we're not all broke students here or climber bums. Some of us just wanna have a good time climbing, feel a bit safe and have a cool drive to the crag at 200k's with 200watts of bass vibrating every cell! My ideas are actually serious. Reactive measures are what is needed here. Do you think that if, in Dubai, you could easily traffic drugs with no serious consequences for getting caught, that there wouldnt be a drug problem? Of course not. You get busted you get nailed HARD. Same as in the US. If you toe the line, you'll be fine. Upset the status quo and you get it. Same as here. Wait untill you lose 4 close friends to hijack MURDERS and then see how you really feel about the death penalty.

Can anyone answer my question about liability for a hired guard who might get injured? Any lawyers here?

sure, but what fun is driving then? I cant think of anything worse than driving around this HUGE country in a piece of crap that'll most likely break down at some point and put you in a worse position, and let's not even think about your safety if you have an accident in a 'kak', unsafe budget Italian car.

And those other ideas are just so proactive!hahahahahaaaaaaaa, ja sure, I'm gonna leave my car unlocked and a sarmie for the dude! oh and I'll keep some air freshener for when I chase the bum off my back seat. Come on, we're not all broke students here or climber bums. Some of us just wanna have a good time climbing, feel a bit safe and have a cool drive to the crag at 200k's with 200watts of bass vibrating every cell! My ideas are actually serious. Reactive measures are what is needed here. Do you think that if, in Dubai, you could easily traffic drugs with no serious consequences for getting caught, that there wouldnt be a drug problem? Of course not. You get busted you get nailed HARD. Same as in the US. If you toe the line, you'll be fine. Upset the status quo and you get it. Same as here. Wait untill you lose 4 close friends to hijack MURDERS and then see how you really feel about the death penalty.

Can anyone answer my question about liability for a hired guard who might get injured? Any lawyers here?

I like driving at 140km/h to the crags, with 140watts of bass pounding my entire being, in my zippy, paid-off, most fuel efficient, cheap to run, little piece of Italian engineering. It leaves me more money to spend on gear and road trips. It's done Montagu so much it could drive there itself, handled the N1 to and from Jhb perfectly, loves dirty gravel mountain passes, and with careful handling even got to the top parking spot at the Mine where some 4x4's have ended up getting stuck with one wheel spinning in the air! (Was gleefully proud of my little time-machine on that occassion) At 150000 on the clock, it's still got many road trips left to look forward to.

Oh and yes, my idea is wonderfully proactive. Haven't had a theft or break-in yet.

Dude it's rare to find anyone in SA who hasn't lost family or friends to crime. Ja, bring back the death penalty, introduce Islamic law.... it might be just the thing to curb the violent crime here. Serious. But you will sure miss cracking a frosty after a hard day's climbing.

I think previously Neil Margetts (sort of through the MCSA) organised a guard to be there on weekends. The initiative probably died after a while. But if say the MCSA said it would pay a guard the going rate for such a person and the people using the area gave tips, it would probably work.

One of the objectives of the MCSA is access. In the past this clearly revolved around talking to landowners or buying land or servitudes to get access, but why shouldn't it these days involve something making access secure?

I definitly think that posting a guard at strubens would be good. Perhaps a fence and gate could be installed around the open parking lot [which must be government property] and each person pays R10 to park there. The main days for this are weekends. Most climbers in Joz are weekend warriors.

I like driving at 140km/h to the crags, with 140watts of bass pounding my entire being, in my zippy, paid-off, most fuel efficient, cheap to run, little piece of Italian engineering.

I'll tell my insurance guy that JonoJ from climb.co.za said it was ok to leave my doors and windows open with a fat beef,gherkin and mustard sarmy on the seat, a coolerbox of beers and some fresh chronic to toke on. I'm sure they can just adjust my policy!

Brew, you were the one who said \"buy a kak little Uno\"...I have no problems with unos, so long as you get the hell out the way when I come up at 200 with my 200 vibing my chakras.

Oh and yes, my idea is wonderfully proactive. Haven't had a theft or break-in yet.

umm, maybe it's 'cos car thieves dont want unos? they are not even good as a get away car mate! 140 down a mineshaft maybe

Hahaha, well yes it does feel rather like plummeting down a mineshaft at that speed in an uno. A good jol though.....it certainly vibes my aweh!!
Ja okay, it does't pull chicks, but it also doesn't cause me any stress when I hit the odd rock or chip a bit of paint on the gravel passes in the Cederberg..... wouldn't dare take a shiny speedy new beemer along the roads I travel anyway.

Bro, I'm really being quite serious about my strange 'proactive' measure...as weird as it seems, it works for me. Gearlock engaged, distributor cable disconnected and stashed my pack (and radio face), doors left unlocked, nothing inside to steal....no-one's going to bother trying to steal it (and they don't have to break a window to have a good gander inside) - be it a cheap Uno or a 'spensive Quattro. I reckon the thief will think something strange is up and leave it well alone. Use it, lose it, just a suggestion.

I'm driving a fairly suped-up Ford Cortina with a V8 Turbocharged engine. We pulled the back seats out and there are 8 16 x 9's and 2 12 inch subs. 18 inch spinners front & back also.

It's a neat car.

Jono, I'm sure you can read between the lines here and realize that most of what I'm saying is just to stir up and add another perspective to what you were saying. Personally, those measures are a little harsh for me, I'd prefer to have an immobiliser and perhaps leave the glovebox open with nothing inside the car.

And Marshall, you should know better. Last thing I want to do is actually BRAG about something which I don't have! I was taking the piss out of what Jono said about his \"kak\" Uno.

Although, the guard part at strubens I was serious about.

Mkboy, who is this \"Us\" you talk about me doing a favour for? so then, it's all of you vs me. (damit, now I'm in trouble). oh, and you are correct. I DO have a tiny little c*ck. But my girlfriend said that she loves it and that size never matters. She does seem to come home late from work a lot though. Mkboy, are you a cheese sandwich?

The \"us\" is everyone who reads the posts on this forum, when you come back to planet Reality, you will realize that as entertaining as you think you are, some people find your attitude a little wacked, nowone wants to be serious all the time man but you take being an *rse to a whole new level, I bet you are a MXIT chatroom fan arent you? Why dont you join a debating society or something instead?

it'll leave the rest of us to derive some real benefit from this forum. I actually used to find your posts quite entertaining but now the \"Guest show\" is a little on the boring side, dude why dont you ever have anything contructive to say?

ok guys then lets do this car guard thing , im sure more people will feel safer and not worry so much .I know I will. I propose a guard there sat and sun from 7am till 4pm ( 9 hours) we pay R500 per weekend and share the costs amoungst those who are willing and can contribute . If its split between 20 people , its really only R25 per person per weekend. Everyone who commits can deposit the money monthly into a new account we open and a dedicated security co. gets paid from it, should more than 20 people start contributing we can use the surplus each month to have a lucky draw every few months and 1 of the contributors will win a gift voucher for a climbing supply shop to the value of whats in the kitty ? If there are enough responses we can communicate and mail me even and we can get the ball rolling. Use it , dont use it?

bg - it will never happen! you're asking someone to do all this administration etc...

rather someone should do a headcount at strubens on the weekend as to see the viability firstly. Secondly, I think it's better if a body like MCSA could take charge. I think R25 per person is too much, especially for strubens. R10 is more the kind of price, and people shouldnt have to pay per person. Strubens has always been free to climb and the only problem is with cars, so therefore cars should pay.

Personally, I think the guard route is too complicated, which is why I asked about the liability earlier.

The easiest solution is this:

Every time I go to Strubens I pass the petrol station/mall on the right. There are always guys just hanging around, some car guarding, others begging, some of them hoping to get picked up to do some work. Initially the climbers will need to show these guys the opportunity at the Strubens parking lot, by giving one or two guys a lift there, but once the ball gets rolling I can assure you there will always be some guys to watch cars every weekend. where there is a window of opportunity, there will always be someone to fill it.

Climbers then tip these guys well and then there are no niggly contracts with security co's etc etc. This is a much better way than the formal guard route as in those cases you will be making some guarding company rich, while the guard is short changed.This other way, it's directly helping someone in need.

ok, now I await the flame gallery... .....tssss

Last edited by guest on Thu Feb 01, 2007 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sorry you feeling picked on, people only flame you when you are being a t*ss.

Whatever people have to say about strubens its a vital training/urban crag and we cant afford to let it join the list of places that are 'to dangerous to climb'

I think your idea is very good and by far the most workable one, The guys guarding at the spar are oppurtunists and once they figure out that cash is to be made there its problem solved, nice one.

one small hitch might be what has happened the few times in the past that theres been an informal guard there, the guy is there in the morning when folks arrive,dissappears, back in afternoon to collect.

Any formal arrangement with a guard 'employed' in any way and administered by anyone is eventually going to fall away from the effort of having to organize it all the time, particularly when the problem is 'solved' a few months down the road.

If you have also had a vehicle stolen or broken into lets do something about it.. I have found out some info about the theives and jackers in the area they hang by the shopping centre and also have a little camp across from strubens on the left under the power lines. Lets hear your ideas to combat future attacks and if possible past property stolen. If you interested keep in contact:
Height30@webmail.co.za

lets hear some constructive news on this forum please show some respect.

100dgrs more power to ja bro, i am sick of the cops not dong anything about crime i say lets start our own group of crime fighters take em out one by one till we reach the top dog ....[wish full thinking, man i wish life was more like the movies]

I have found out some info about the theives and jackers in the area they hang by the shopping centre and also have a little camp across from strubens on the left under the power lines.

I very much doubt these are the guys stealing the cars. Perhaps a break-in. The guys who steal cars are very organized. It's not as easy as one would think, to just steal a car and sell it off to someone. The guys stealing cars are clever 'cos they have found Strubens to be a hotspot for people with too much money to spend...[ropes, fancy 'ballet' shoes etc!]

Perhaps the guys living under the powerlines would be glad to have a place to earn some money...so they should.

one small hitch might be what has happened the few times in the past that theres been an informal guard there, the guy is there in the morning when folks arrive,dissappears, back in afternoon to collect.

so this has been tried @ strubens then already? I wouldnt have thought it would not work as climbers are coming and going all day. Most people don't climb there all day, just a couple hours. My only real fear would be that too many guys come to guard which could create other problems.

oh, and 100dgrs, thanx for the email address! I have already signed you up for some p o r n mailgroups, a couple of online casinos and right now, 400 tonnes of SPAM are headed your way!Have a nice day!!!

[The guys who steal cars are very organized. It's not as easy as one would think to just steal a car and sell it off to someone.]

Yes and no... Unfortunately the motor industry is such that many of the smaller panel beaters, second hand part suppliers and scrap yards will happily pay for parts stripped from stolen cars. Doors, fenders, bumpers, etc. have no numbers that can be traced and can be easily sprayed in a garage. Also doesn't take a genius to strip a car... Hence the more common vehicles are also the most readily targeted.

Sorry Jono… supply and demand…they’re even looking for Unos. There still plenty on the road and parts are no longer in great supply. Also, having cheaper parts available means that accident damaged vehicles can be repaired cost effectively (insurance companies are equally keen to save a buck) and are less likely to be written off. So leaving your doors unlocked may not be the best idea…

Organising the guards seems like a logistical nightmare, but good luck if you guys can get it right. I've climbed at Strubens before, any chance that parking cars in the road, in front of a house (more visible area) might discourage future break-ins?

Ja-ja. I am quite glad that we have not had any problems with crime here before, during or after the festive season, so far.

It is interesting to see though that people that were mugged here in the past have come back to climb in Waterval Boven, still loving it.

Two things from this:
We will need more than break-inns/thefts at Strubens or muggings to keep passionate people away from the rocks. This also devides the climbing community into those who are passionate about touching stone and come back regardless; and those who prefer the comforts of their homes with electrified fences and all the latest climbing gadgets nicely arranged in the attic.

If there were a formalised system at Strubens where each person had to pay R15/R20 per day, I am quite sure nobody would complain. To set up that system is where the trick comes in. Each area is different and as someone suggested, perhaps we need a club to intervene.

I went on a kayaking trip in Lesotho last weekend and thought about the fact that we arrived with our fancy 4x4's, 10 x R5000 worth kayaks and other toys, put in had loads of fun, took out and left the local community gaping.

I definitely do not have spare cash to throw around, but I don't want them to organise themselves to come and help themselves to my camera while we are sleeping next time. If you just dump food or cash onto them, the next group through there will be expected to do the same. And if they don't? Say bonjour to CRIME.

A solution is to pay people for services rendered. However little the services are or however little the contribution is. In isolated poor places like Lesotho, a hearder will think it is Christmas if you give him R20 for helping to carry some stuff and look after a car for the day.

In more frequented places like Strubens or 'Boven, a system would have to be put into place. Systems require money. Your security company may ask R7000 for a permanent guard, only paying him R2500 (serious thumb suck!). They provide the infrastructure, back-up, insurance etc. Unfortunately that's business. Anyway to raise R7K you'll need 30 climbers to contribute R20 each for 8 days in the month i.e. everyday of the weekend. Clearly this is not an option.

So let's get the bergies under the pylon and empower them? Someone has to manage that, else they'll be unreliable or corrupt.

And so we will be searching for solutions. Here in Waterval Boven we are getting closer and closer to finding some. Hopefully before crime starts to stick its neck out!

thats really really bad, i checked with Sam and she says she remembered hearing an alarm go off that day as well but also thought that it was a house! Man i hope our peeps are safe there, id hate for people to be scared to go climbing because of this!!!!!

Theft of cars can happen anywhere. My girlfriend and I had the pleasure of being robbed at gunpoint in the middle of the bush miles from anywhere. Needless to say, I offered no heroics, just did as we were told and we escaped with our lives. The big deal here is - DON'T TAKE VALUABLES TO THE CRAG!!!! No electronic stuff, no money, just your gear. If the baddies come, co-operate, and don't look at them. There's only one time, god-forbid, that you retaliate, and that's if they interfere with women in the group. I am still amazed at the amount of digital stuff, seemingly intelligent people, who have access to the media, continue to take to the crags. The sooner we all realise that a couple of happy snaps of our latest stunning redpoint aren't worth the incentive we are providing to those who prefer not to work for their money, the sooner we will have safe crags. It just won't be worth their while.