I hadn't realised it took place on somebody's steps. Do you know that it did?

If so, you answer me something: Do you believe everything you read in the papesr, or do you accept that they sometimes elaborate stories to give them a little extra edge?

I'm struggling to see how this minor incident has even made the press, never mind the calls for his head that are going on from some quarters, no matter what he has done recently. Do people honestly believe that the issues he has acknowledged and publicly adnitted that he is dealing with, would be resolved just like that? I say well done to Quins management for giving him the support he seems to need at this time.

1988JPCFConor OS doesn't seem to think so and he is a good enough judge for me .....

Doesn't seem to think what? That Danny has a problem?

Quote:

Conor O'SheaThe situation Danny finds himself in is unfortunate and is one that could and should have been avoided. We have no intention of doing anything other than supporting Danny and continuing to work with him so he understands his position and the decisions he makes.

If Conor thinks Danny hasn't got a problem why does he think he needs support and help in understanding his position and the decisions he makes?

I'm struggling to see how this minor incident has even made the press, never mind the calls for his head that are going on from some quarters, no matter what he has done recently.

I'm certainly not calling for his head but "England rugby player urinates on hotel steps". Seriously, you can't understand why the press have reported it? They'd have reported it if it was his first offence.

I've read the article yet again, and can find no reference therein to him having "had a slash on the side hotel stairs".

The article says "Care was urinating outside the building".

The man himself said: "After an evening out with friends in the centre of Leeds, after a long time queuing, I was in a taxi home when I got caught short and asked the taxi driver to pull over so I could relieve myself behind a nearby building".

I might well be missing something but I honestly can't find where it implies that this happened on the stairs of an hotel! On the contrary, DC himself seems to be saying it was behind the building, ergo not near the entrance to it! Grandad, what passes for fact these days?

What COS says in public and what he says directly to DC are likely to be poles apart.

What does he say to the rest of the squad - we have to be fair to all Quins players so it is now club policy that you can all go out and get arrested 3 times for being D&D before the club bothers to get seriously heavy.

I don't know the answer but Quins management have a major responsibility for the reputation of the club and the conduct of its players/staff post-Bloodgate.

I'm pretty sure that if it had been me peeing in an alley, I'd have been cautioned and sent on my way, rather than causing the police to deal with all the paperwork. But then, I'm not a high profile sportsman, so there would not be the opportunity to make column inches out of it.

Cynical? Moi?

If this signifies a drink problem, then a significant proportion of the population have a drink problem.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to bleat about it all over the internet"

Outside perspective, I note some people are using the term 'drink problem' which other Quins fans are rubbishing as nonsense. It would seem some people view a drink problem as meaning they are an alcoholic, or at least have some form of alcohol dependency. I don't think that is what people meant, people are saying that being arrested for three alcohol related incidents (2 x D&D and 1 x DUI) in a three month period means DC is having problems whilst drinking, which he is.

Urinating on a hotel be it the side steps, the back steps or the yard where the empties are stored is deeply offensive to the local residents are the people who have to work and clean those areas, to say otherwise is disingenuous.

DC is a great rugby player, i hope he sorts himself out and gets talked about for his rugby again, because right now he has a problem.

BoonieI'm pretty sure that if it had been me peeing in an alley, I'd have been cautioned and sent on my way, rather than causing the police to deal with all the paperwork. But then, I'm not a high profile sportsman, so there would not be the opportunity to make column inches out of it.
Cynical? Moi?

If this signifies a drink problem, then a significant proportion of the population have a drink problem.

I'm guessing you mean told off rather than cautioned, in the legal sense. A police caution is an outcome after arrest where guilt is acknowledged by the arrested person.

A police caution is not a telling off in the old fasioned Dixon of Dock Green sense. As grandad points out it's an arrest, conviction and punishment all in one.

The police love them as they can persuade people who committed serious crimes to take a caution (relatively speaking a slap on the wrist) but treat it as a lesser but solved crime without the bother of solving the bigger crime or going to court. So, they get biggish crimes off the books quite easily.

They can also be dished out like confetti to minor offenders - lads on a night out getting a bit sweary and lairy. It becomes a crime and conviction all in one and makes the overall clean up percentage look better.

A cynic might say that many lads are persuaded to accept them when they are still maybe a bit drunk, do not have the benefit of advice and while the tape recorder is not going but without realising that they are getting themselves a criminal record.

I suspect Danny was probably put on the spot and persuaded that he was much better off taking the caution when he may not even have committed an offence, and without the benefit of legal advice. Lawyers are a bit thin on the ground at 3am in most city centres.

There is no one statutory offence of urinating in public. There may be local by-laws but it's usually hidden under that all purpose charge of drunk and disorderly, which is broadly anything that gets up a policeman's nose at the time. Danny may have been neither drunk nor disorderly - but he was seen doing something that a policeman did not like and was not doubt told that he'd committed an offence. Pi$$ing in public is not an offence in itself.

I think Connor O'Shea's reaction is spot on. Still, it's nice to know that when Paul Dacre retires there is no shortage of candidates for his job.

I wonder how thick the brown envelope someone at the local nick got was...

...which isn't to say DC hasnt been daft & doesn't need a JK (a bit heavier than COS) boot to the posterior. Nonetheless, 25 year old wealthy man on a week off watering some steps is a world of difference from DUI.

Brown BottleI can't believe people still think Danny hasn't got a problem after his 3rd drinking related arrest in 3 months.
Individually his offences may seem trivial but the frequency is a concern.

I don't know if any of those dismissing this have kids but out of interest, if you do, how would you feel if it was your 25 yr old son? Concerned a little?

BB, if this was my son (who is 18, so close-ish), I would certainly be having a pretty strong word. But the discussion would be about having respect for other people's property (whilst feeling pretty hypocritical) and mostly about not being so bl**dy stupid as to put himself in this position again and again.

I would not, however, be concerned that he had a drinking problem, or even a behavioural problem whilst drinking. If I was his boss, I certainly wouldn't be considering sacking/suspending him.

My point, and I am not alone on this thread, is that there is a typically middle Englander overeaction to a frankly minor incident. Your own posts are measured as usual but many others on here border on the hysterical and/or prurient (hence my previous comment about Daily Mail readership).

its not a "minor incident" hes a high profile premiership and england rugby player that was caught three times drunk and caught taking a jimmy riddle on hotel steps. well ill tell you lad my lads felt slipper and it worked, never did ought wrong again

Fatbstrd, I appreciate your point of view but to clarify I was referring to the accumulation of all 3 incidents within 3 months rather than specifically this one, which is in itself pretty trivial, I think.

This is completely outrageous and clearly the guilt goes much wider than Care, guilty though he clearly is.

Nick Evans, as a senior colleague, should have ensured that Care wasn't out on the razzle, and is every bit as guilty and deserving of a ban. That goes double for Nick Easter, because there's more of him. Mike Brown ("What you guilty of, Mike?" "What you got?") is guilty of everything, as is Joe Marler. And Monye and that Chisholm fella are too quick to be anything other than guilty.

All of them should be banned along with Care. Not a long ban, though. A ban which starts on the 20th of April and ends on the 22nd should suffice to show them the error of their ways.

Oh god get a life FCS.... Where you there? He has let no one down at all it's a complete non event it was round the back of an alley at 3am and the BTP caught him.
There are no games for 2 weeks and he is a 25 year old (?!) bloke on a night out - YES THIS HAPPENS

"FCS?", "Where you there?" - what are you talking about?

"it was round the back of an alley" - what a strange place to build the steps of the hotel.

"He has let no one down at all" - other than all his team mates who signed up to the club's much publicised disciplinary policy of course. The ones that make the effort not to get arrested every month.

Rather sounds like your post was composed by Drunk Care after a night out.

Add to all this 'debate' the huge cost in terms of time and money to clean up the stinking mess left behind by people using private and public property as toilets. Would anyone on here care to clean it up? Thought not.

Some on here seem to think it the norm to urinate in a public place because it has happened numerous times in the past. Others seem to forgive Care's actions because they themselves have done it and are loathe to find fault with their own behaviour. Oh! Sorry! Forgot. It's rugby and by definition just silly high jinks.

Oh god get a life FCS.... Where you there? He has let no one down at all it's a complete non event it was round the back of an alley at 3am and the BTP caught him.
There are no games for 2 weeks and he is a 25 year old (?!) bloke on a night out - YES THIS HAPPENS

"FCS?", "Where you there?" - what are you talking about?

"it was round the back of an alley" - what a strange place to build the steps of the hotel.

"He has let no one down at all" - other than all his team mates who signed up to the club

disciplinary policy of course. The ones that make the effort not to get arrested every month

You seemed to be so well informed about it and as the spokesman for the quins 1st xv on being "let down" I thought you must have been ?! A strange place to build steps ? Perhaps there are two exits genius or even the back of the hotel may have had steps ?

Get back to your daily mail ...

Rather sounds like your post was composed by Drunk Care after a night out.

Oddly the US doesn't take DUI that seriously - its seen as a rite of passage like it was in Britain in the 70s. Despite having no convictions & a US citizen partner my involvement in (fairly mainstream in europe) politics makes it much harder to get a visa than others I know with 1-2 DUIs.

there needs to be a complete overall in rfu since woody left. jonno were grand copper im sure. fantastic 5 shirt but lacked manement skills. richards were copper to. great dor until that incident. how and why did he do that when it wasnt nessesary. then easter incident in rwc11 now this clod care sticks his oar in. can we ever have a season were we dont look like oiyks at stoop and on world stage. que lancaster and preference given to his training mates son for 10 shirt. ho hum here we go again

Grandadthere needs to be a complete overall in rfu since woody left. jonno were grand copper im sure. fantastic 5 shirt but lacked manement skills. richards were copper to. great dor until that incident. how and why did he do that when it wasnt nessesary. then easter incident in rwc11 now this clod care sticks his oar in. can we ever have a season were we dont look like oiyks at stoop and on world stage. que lancaster and preference given to his training mates son for 10 shirt. ho hum here we go again

Did you know that cannabis in now ten times stronger than it used to be

As for the requirement for a visa to visit the USA, he would have needed to do that anyway.

Only because of the previous DUI, I think, or is that what you meant?

I was in the States late last year. A visa is required, obtained via the ESTA process. You may be shocked, but I have no criminal record.

QK, an ESTA isn't a visa. The ESTA process is simple and done online. The visa process is manual, will involve a trip to the US Embassy along with plenty of letters and form-filling, if you've got a criminal record. It's also a lot more expensive.

Grandadthere needs to be a complete overall in rfu since woody left. jonno were grand copper im sure. fantastic 5 shirt but lacked manement skills. richards were copper to. great dor until that incident. how and why did he do that when it wasnt nessesary. then easter incident in rwc11 now this clod care sticks his oar in. can we ever have a season were we dont look like oiyks at stoop and on world stage. que lancaster and preference given to his training mates son for 10 shirt. ho hum here we go again

There's only one "oiyk" (sic) on here...

A complete overall, eh? Good grief...

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to bleat about it all over the internet"

It wasn't very long ago that a coach full of Quins supporters coming back from the final in Cardiff had to stop in Bristol. The reason it did this was to allow a number of people to jump off and empty their bladders beside the road. This was in a residential area though it was late at night so the streets were empty. Hopefully none of you criticising DC were involved....?

gregory pMind you, if Danny and OLH keep this up, Feltham Young Offenders Institute could be a surprise entry at this year's Middlesex Sevens. Now then, is Ricky Nebbett keeping in shape as well?
The arrows on the shirts would at least improve Ricky's sense of direction but a ball and chain for OLH may take the edge off his straight line speed.

As for the requirement for a visa to visit the USA, he would have needed to do that anyway.

Only because of the previous DUI, I think, or is that what you meant?

I was in the States late last year. A visa is required, obtained via the ESTA process. You may be shocked, but I have no criminal record.

QK, an ESTA isn't a visa. The ESTA process is simple and done online. The visa process is manual, will involve a trip to the US Embassy along with plenty of letters and form-filling, if you've got a criminal record. It's also a lot more expensive.

Even an arrest (regardless of whether the case went to trial or the result of any court case) makes US entry a bit challenging - particularly for drug or 'political' offences.

Grandadthere needs to be a complete overall in rfu since woody left. jonno were grand copper im sure. fantastic 5 shirt but lacked manement skills. richards were copper to. great dor until that incident. how and why did he do that when it wasnt nessesary. then easter incident in rwc11 now this clod care sticks his oar in. can we ever have a season were we dont look like oiyks at stoop and on world stage. que lancaster and preference given to his training mates son for 10 shirt. ho hum here we go again

Grandadquinky exacly my point about being a reformed player like joe marler. chris robshaw was reformed character at twickenham v wales .respect now to lad .unlike easter and care oh and tindall

Bish (correct me if I'm wrong) - I agree that Marler has matured and - like Mike Brown - learned to control anger. I suspect COS is either very good at teaching that or knows someone who is. Robshaw has an exceptionally good disciplinary record, particularly for a back row player, and didn't need any 'reforming'.

Care and Tindall have been found guilty of criminal offences - its totally different.

Grandadsam .robshaw didnt cause fight but continued the fight and as captain that is deplorable e3specially as he walked around with a torn shirt for 5 minutes posing like man at C&A

I take it that you've not played much? I was taught (nothing impressive - captain of school 2nd XV was about my level) that part of the role was to get in the way of any trouble - particularly if the oppo were targeting the 9 or 10 as you're much bigger and less important. Torn shirts occasionally result but if a 6' 3", 220lb flanker is trying to hit a 5' 9" 140lb scrum half getting in the way isnt a hard decision.

We record all IP addresses on the Sportnetwork message boards which may be required by the authorities in case of defamatory or abusive comment.
We seek to monitor the Message Boards at regular intervals.
We do not associate Sportnetwork with any of the comments and do not take responsibility for any statements or opinions expressed on the Message Boards.
If you have any cause for concern over any material posted here please let us know as soon as possible by e-mailing
abuse@sportnetwork.net