Is Tim Tebow the future? Woody and Kiz argue it … on an airplane

On their flight home from Foxborough on Sunday afternoon, Denver Post columnists Woody Paige and Mark Kiszla took a couple minutes to recap the wild, recently-ended Broncos season.

Following a 1-4 start, the Broncos cut ties with incumbent quarterback Kyle Orton in favor of second year celebrity Tim Tebow. Then, after winning 8-of-12 starts, Tebow and the Broncos lost 45-10 to the New England Patriots in the second round of the playoffs to end their wild run.

After every win, Wooddy tells us that Tim Tebow is the Second Coming of Elway, and that #15’s tears cure cancer. And after every embarrassing loss, Woody backs off and sounds non committal. Which is it, Woody? Stop worrying so much about being right and just admit that Tebow is, right now, not a good quarterback. The Denver Broncos aren’t as good as many fans believed they were. It doesn’t mean they won’t be, it just means that they have a long way to go. And Tebow is not as good as all his hardcore believers think. It doesn’t mean he can’t be, it just means that he’s light years off, and we need some competition at the position. Simple as that.

no.

lol, no. woody and brandon spano are the ONLY two people in the local sports media who have genuinely backed tim tebow and stuck with him. they get credit from me for not being afraid to have an opinion and for being the only positive supporters tebow has.

tebow’s not “light years off”, either. i think he did fine, some good some bad, just like pretty much every other young quarterback in the nfl ever. he can improve and he’s going to be the starter next year. you’re just going to have to deal. simple as that.

Karen_calci2000

What game did you see? Tebow was horrific. Brady had a qb rating of 98.5 and Tebow had a rating of 18? It’s time to bea realistic. Tebow is not an NFL qb.

Marshallss

What game did you watch? As Woody said, Brady had all day while Tebow was running for his life.

Wingnug

Apparently Tebow failed to inspire (People say he inspires the other players, right?) his team mates.

Anonymous

I’m inspired to stop watching.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Why are you even trying to compare an 11 year veteran to a 17 GAME veteran. That is assanine LOL

Anonymous

Compare Tebow to all other second-year starters then. And I don’t mean beating teams with losing records while scoring less than 20 points.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

The did that comparison with Bradys first playoff game. Eerily similar. Compare Elways / Marino / Manning / Rivers / Rodgers….look up the stats you will see they are all extremely close and very comparable. Find a new argument…cuz that on has already been played out

Anonymous

Asking ANY QB to score 46 points to beat the Pats Saturday is unrealistic. The Broncos had no pass rush, and after a 300 yard passing game, the offensive scheme was bland. The Broncos will be back stronger next year, as will their quarterback.

Anonymous

If the donkeys could have put even ONE drive together, perhaps the Pats would not have hung 35 on them before half.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Showing your true fandom….. Your a Faders fan arent ya

Seminoleup

Does Woody get a bonus for talking/flying with Kisla. Kisla in a recent article admitted to a player he was just being argumentative. I wish the Post would move on and get rid of Kisla. I read many Newspapers and not all of them have a Donkey.

The Broncos can build around Tebow, but naive fans want instant gratification. Someone wrote yesterday they wished they had Aaron Rodgers when the score was tied 10-10 well Rodgers lost 37-20. If Rodgers was with the Broncos and the team lost 37-20, Bronco fans would be calling for a new QB. Giants rushed four and played man coverage, the Ravens will probably try the same vs. the Pats. DA had a terrible defensive game plan a second time against the Pats, and McCoy never allowed Tebow to throw ONE WEEK AFTER A 300 YARD game against the leagues number one defense. The Pats had the worst defense, McCoy’s game plan was vanilla and terrible once again. Tebow proved he could throw the slant all night long, there were 3 drops and multiple OBVIOUS passes thrown away when no one was open.

Karen_calci2000

I look forward to the end of the 2012 season when there is a clear answer. My prediction- Tebow has had his best days. Much like Miami had some success with the wildcat as it was new and confusing, a scrambling qb gave teams fits for a while. The Pats defense is fairly anemic, yet they shut Tebow down with ease. that trend will only magnify next year and the Broncos are a sub 500 team next year with Tebow fading into obscurity before he one day re-emerges as a right winged candidate for senate and eventually presidential candidate. You heard it hear first, save the email. It will seem like Nostradamus wrote it.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Ive heard this all season from the media. Can you come up with your OWN opinions….BAAAAAAAAAA sheep are boring. Go back and watch some more Stephan A Smith or Hoge, or stink.

Jcchokrach

Absolutely correct!!!

Meldasue

It all starts up front – Goodman’s not so bad, but there was no pressure on Brady. To be fair, EFX did try to pick up some help on the defensive line this year, and they all ended up on injured reserve before the season even started.

Karen_calci2000

It’s time to be honest, Tebow is to football as Justin Beber is to music. A media sensation for sure, but he doesn’t have the skills to ever be competitive. Surely Elway knows this. Here’s the dilemma- football is a business and Tebow sells tickets and merch, a lot of merch! Tebow also draws national ratings. love him or hate him, he elevated the league’s ratings. I wonder how many christian women, who could normally care less about sports, rushed home from church to tune in to God’s warrior. Tebow will start next year, he is too important to the league not too. It won’t be based on his ability to play, but he will start and the NFL will make record profits.

Sargon3131

The guy has starteded 16 career games, and through those games, his passing statistics compare with Elway and Steve Young, while his rushing yards far exceed theirs. Over the past two seasons, the team is 9-7 with him and 4-14 without him. Obviously, he’s not an elite quarterback right now, and it’s quite possible he never will be, but you certainly can’t know that based on 16 starts. So please, stop ranting about how horrible you think he is and just wait and see.

Marilyn Morales

I agree. he does not have to be great. Just manage the game and put the team in the right place to score. Look at the former TampaBay QB Brad Johnson. He played for 17 years and hew as not an elite QB.

I would pick up a veteran backup and when he fails to go over 50% in passing or forty yards, replace him. He really needs to sit and watch and learn.

DLMyers

So Karen, how do you tell the other 52 players, that you want them to wait while you try to develop one player? Yes I know it has been reported that ALL the players support Tim but do you really believe that?
I dont.

Stevechunt

They know it’s rebuilding time. I guess according to you they enjoyed winning 6 games the past 2 1/2 years. Get real, this was a successful year for the Broncos after being the 2nd worst team in the league!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

GONG….again fail. hehehehe this is too easy. If ya dont’ like the Broncos you should find a new team to root (bash) on.

Anonymous

I’m with karen. I have never seen a QB come into a city and play such mediocre football, yet have the team change its whole offense and philosophy to get him on the field. So many fans and columnists become TT apologists. ANY other QB wouldn’t have made the team. It’s apparently about money: tickets, #15 jerseys, ratings, etc.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

You weren’t around for Elway’s first season were ya??

Anonymous

I was there, and Morton years too. Elway had the tools. He just needed to develop. He came from a great passing team with a great arm. Tebow never could pass in college and has bad mechanics now. Night and FRIGGIN day.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Elway had AWFUL mechanics and he was the first to admit it LOL. That is part of learning to be an NFL QB. And Tebow in college and even this season has shown promise in his throwing ability. So I don’t know where you get that opinion. But trying to pass it off as fact is just silly

Gigi7714

gotta agree with disturbed on this one. Don’t even try to tell us old folks how “great” Elway was. We were THERE. He had a long long long ways to go to before he won a Superbowl and he had weapons galore. Tim Tebow will be just fine.

Bronco N Arizona

Elway as a rookie was marginal. I give you that. But at no time did most fans question his future. We knew we had a gunner back there that was willing to give it up in football skills competiveness. We knew that he had football talent much like Andrew Luck predicts. I like Tebow but he is no John Elway! Can he become a great QB (What all Bronco fans want) I have my doubts but the guy sells jersey’s. Tebow’s Inspiration is awesome and captivating. But Elway’s winning was gratifying and created a sense of pride that Tebow has yet to prove.

3bn1mar

Tebow passed for 70% completion rate his Senior season and 67% over all at FL. He also passed for 88 TD passes. In his last game(Sugarbowl) he completed his 1st 16 straight passes including at least one that the receiver caught in stride after it was throw for over 40 yards. He broke many SEC passing records. Dude on a bike you should check your facts before you post.

denver2332

Did anyone watching that game happen to watch the Pats? Even Ditka said this loss was NOT Tebow. The Pats- although historically this season a rotten defense was ALL OVER Denver, there was nowhere to throw, nowhere to run and they were simply shut down.The look in Bradys eyes coming on the field said it all- no way they were losing that game. And who does Denver have big enough, and fast enough to cover Hernandez and Gronk? I love Champ- but size etc.. no match up, then you have to worry about Welker up the middle. Did Denver play like they did last week- No! They looked awful.Denver needs receivers period. A couple of monster safetys wouldnt be bad either. And some game plans would help. I watched Elway when he first came to Denver- a little familiar. He stunk! For quite a while- and now Denver is forever chasing the next Elway. Give the kid a chance- and some weapons!

Panderson

I hope Denver stays with Tebow–he’s a winner. Go all in with the option oriented offense and build around it. As far as throwing technique, Tebow could use some help. Forget Elway–he was a happy-footed football-thumping nervous wreck as a passer. Remember, Terrell Davis won those Super Bowls for us. Instead, get a virtuoso passer like Brian Griese to work with Tebow. That’s my final answer.

Tebow, considering his youth and where this team was a year ago will be the starting QB. If they did not start him, Denver would have a riot on it’s hand. It is easy to blame losses on a QB but the losses are not Tebow’s fault. Denver has holes everywhere and I think Elway knows that and Fox knows that. Denver is still 2 to 3 years away from being anything close to a Tom Brady Pats team. People need to be realistic here and if anyone thought that Tim was going to lead Denver to a Super Bowl in his first year as a QB, then they are nuts. Look at Green Bay? They are done, Look at Houston. They are done. I mean come on. I think next year when Tim has a full season under his belt, then one can really evaluate this kid.

Rick Lee

I do not think that the losses are all Tebow’s fault NOR do I think that the wins are all Tebow’s also. That is the problem here. We give Tebows ALL the credits for all the wins….even when he completed 2 passes again KC and got the win. Tebow’s comebacks were a by product of his terrible play in the first 3 1/2 quarter. Even when the defense is playing so well to keep the team close despite Tebow’s terrible play. Yet, when he finally put together a final drive we give him all the credit. Here is a thought….how about playing well for the first 3 quarters while your defense also play well so that you do NOT have to do a comeback in the 4th Q…..Its like in basketball, a player will miss most of his shots (2 -15) in the game but his team kept him close and then he hits his last shot to win the game and we give him all the credit……..Why can’t everyone see that these comebacks are set up by his poor play to begin with?????

Wingnug

Tebow, by taking the Broncos out of a top ten draft position, bought himself another year. Luckily, there should be some good defensive players available in the 20s and the Broncos can think offense in 2013, when they should have a higher pick.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Yup making the playoffs ruined our draft position where we could get another three year project and hopefully make the playoffs in three years……that makes a WHOLE HEAP of sense LMFAO!

Wingnug

Okay, you got me. Tim Tebow will be a better quarterback next year (his third), than Andrew Luck will be in his third year. You heard it here first from the Disturbed.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Yup, and in his first 3/4 of a year as starter, took us to the Divisional round of the playoffs. I would say that not to shabby from a kid who hasn’t a full off season of OTA’s or a TC. Or a full season in reps as a starter. So you just keep lobbing them up there and Ill keep smacking them outta the park. Cuz you so smaaaaart

Wingnug

Okay. 3 years from now I’ll look you up. What park will be you living in then?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

The one I kicked ya moms and pops outta Doesn’t the public library have a curfew for using their cpu’s ??

Cheshire

Broncos will never win on a consistent basis with Tebow.

Marilyn Morales

Chesire,

Never is a strong word. Look at Alex Snith, SF, QB. Everyone thougth he was a bum and he played like one for the last 3-4years and then a new coach AND look at him now. He is not elite but he is a good game manager. Tebow more likely than not will not turn into steve young but then people thought the same about steve young and now he is in the hall of fame.

I say give him at least 3 years to develop and a new offensive coordinator and QB coach. He needs support. a running team, a tight end, etc. All of the great ones have needed at least 2-3 years to figure it out.

I would start working him beginning now until the start of practice.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Consistent basis, would that mean even record?….uhhhm with Tebow they went 8-5, with a playoff win. Id say that is more than consistent, thus your statement of never is already negated.

DLMyers

Woody Paige says “stay with Tim 3-4 more years and watch him develop” WTF, Broncos can NOT run this Tebow-offense and be consistantly competitive. Mark Krizla says “are they closer to 12-4 or 6-10 with Tim”. DAH, 6-10. Bring in quality competition and see if Tim can develop into an NFL QB.

Rick Lee

If you run this offense for Tebow, who do you draft or sign in free agency as the back up QBs?

Dannyisapunk

hey that’s Bill Williamson from espn behind them….

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XGRCBCQRILKVUPR2HAJ4FK7UG4 eddie

I heard last week (On Tebow) Any high school Q.B. could make the throws he made with the time he had, so can that be said about Brady Too? I am no coach but if you don’t rush enough people to get to Brady he is going to have a great day against everyone. Don’t play not to get blown out because you will. Bettor coaches please.

Frankpellicore

Tim tebow showed signs of a packet passer at times the off season will help him get better with hes feet work and reading defenses and making good choses on the field. Yea he might never be a tom brady or payton manning or john elway but he can be good enough to lead this team in to the playoffs next year .For all those you think he should not be the starter be real there are a lot of holes on the team they can trade draft picks to get a better qb they need to fill those holes first and see what he looks like next season. I believe he will be the qb of the future but lets take one year at a time and fill those holes we need to be a playoff team . Defense can use a dt and stuff the fun plus a safety and cb. On offence just about everything more off line would help and a big tied end would be great running back fullback wr also so lets see what tebow looks like next year .Elway hopefully works hands on with tebow this off season . Everybody keeps saying he end up 1 and 4 but 2 of those games where against the might patriots lets be real hear give him a chance to inprove before shutting the door on him

Frankpellicore

Tim tebow showed signs of a packet passer at times the off season will help him get better with hes feet work and reading defenses and making good choses on the field. Yea he might never be a tom brady or payton manning or john elway but he can be good enough to lead this team in to the playoffs next year .For all those you think he should not be the starter be real there are a lot of holes on the team they can trade draft picks to get a better qb they need to fill those holes first and see what he looks like next season. I believe he will be the qb of the future but lets take one year at a time and fill those holes we need to be a playoff team . Defense can use a dt and stuff the fun plus a safety and cb. On offence just about everything more off line would help and a big tied end would be great running back fullback wr also so lets see what tebow looks like next year .Elway hopefully works hands on with tebow this off season . Everybody keeps saying he end up 1 and 4 but 2 of those games where against the might patriots lets be real hear give him a chance to inprove before shutting the door on him

Frankpellicore

Tim tebow showed signs of a packet passer at times the off season will help him get better with hes feet work and reading defenses and making good choses on the field. Yea he might never be a tom brady or payton manning or john elway but he can be good enough to lead this team in to the playoffs next year .For all those you think he should not be the starter be real there are a lot of holes on the team they can trade draft picks to get a better qb they need to fill those holes first and see what he looks like next season. I believe he will be the qb of the future but lets take one year at a time and fill those holes we need to be a playoff team . Defense can use a dt and stuff the fun plus a safety and cb. On offence just about everything more off line would help and a big tied end would be great running back fullback wr also so lets see what tebow looks like next year .Elway hopefully works hands on with tebow this off season . Everybody keeps saying he end up 1 and 4 but 2 of those games where against the might patriots lets be real hear give him a chance to inprove before shutting the door on him

Bill Owen_97365

Why would you tear up the fabric of a team in hopes a development player “might” develop into an NFL QB? Can you really develop a player at this stage of his career to throw accurately, and consistently, convert 3rd downs, and keep an opposing offense on the bench? So far Tebow is miserably inadequate in all four categories. I hope I am wrong, but I don’t think so, and the whole team is going to suffer. The thrill of combacks is nice but in far less desireable than having a QBwho can consistently drive the team and score TDs! Like John Elway has been quoted as saying, his 46 comebacks were made because he was put in a position of having to make them. Is that the way the future Broncos want to live?????

3bn1mar

Did you watch a lot of non Denver games with young QB’s this season. I watch all the games each week with NFL rewind. There wasn’t one young QB who did that including Cam Newton. You really have unbelievable expectations. You really do believe in miracles.

TebowNOGO!!!

Hey Bronco Fans, Titans fans saw this same phenomenom during the Vince Young era. Exciting with his feet but once DC’s get hip, its shut down time as we saw with the Pats. VY couldn’t throw it in the ocean if he were in a life raft in the Pacific and sorry to say, neither can Tebow. Hoping Tebow will learn to read defenses is comical. But then again they said the same thing about VY. You cats better wake up quick!! Based on what we know he is a good guy off the field and a terrible NFL QB on the field. Flee Bronco Fans!! Flee before your franchise is consumed in the fiery hell of Tebow hype.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

You obviously didnt watch the Steelers game And the Titans are garbage anyway. Cheap Shot artists who think they are “tough” football players. Your in for a rude awakening with your new HC and staff there bud. I would be more concerned about your own team and a little less about the Broncos

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

At this stage of his career????? He has started 17 games! On top of that he has not even had a full off season of OTA’s, and TC taking starter reps. The problem with today’s fans is instant gratification and Fantasy Football LMAO.

SBL

I wonder what the GB fans are saying this morning about theirr quarter back. 26 of 46 for 264 yds passing, fumbleing the ball, overthrowing, underthrowing, and losing the big game that would take them back for a repeat. Think they will throw him away or say he has seen his better days. No one really knows who will win or lose but because you like sports whether football, baseball , basketball, hockey etc. you are a fan. A real fan stays loyal no matter what the outcome. The best game of the weekend was the SF vs NO. Tebow wasn’t the only losing quarterback he stands in the company of Drew Brees, Arron Rodgers, and Yates. Only 8 teams made it this far and I am proud of our Broncos.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

They should have tanked their season for LUCK!!!!! LMAO

Anonymous

Tebow had an awseome game, in all of his starts. He’s absolutely wonderful at running and offense that WON”T WIN IN THE NFL!! Teams figure the TT game out and shut it down. I respect John Elway, but explain how this game plan is ever going work. Granted, you don’t have to win for many fans; you just have to put #15 on the field.

God bless.

Sphawke54

If other teams are “shutting down” Tebow and the Broncos, isn’t that also a problem of the coaching staff and not just the quarterback for not adjusting to the different looks the defenses show? I’ve not been impressed with the play calling in some games. And you can’t blame that on Tebow. it appears that Tebow has been hobbled and kept from making adjustments. Does he need to improve, Yes. Has he been improving during the past season, YES. Will he be a hall of fame quarterback? I don’t know, but the Broncos have certainly improved this year from the miserable start behind K Orton. And with Tebow being named the starting QB for next season, he will have the means and support of the Bronco organization to work on his entire game for next year. I’m looking forward to seeing how much the entire team can improve next season.

Gigi7714

No, No, No, there Sphawke. Tebow has NOT been named the starting QB for next season……..he has “earned the right to be the starting QB going into training camp.”–John Elway. I do NOT trust Elway or Fox. There will be shenanigans pulled during the off season to once again sideline Tim.

Gigi7714

No, No, No, there Sphawke. Tebow has NOT been named the starting QB for next season……..he has “earned the right to be the starting QB going into training camp.”–John Elway. I do NOT trust Elway or Fox. There will be shenanigans pulled during the off season to once again sideline Tim.

Anonymous

“The only way the Broncos can get back in this game is if Tom Brady goes and plays for them.”

-Dan Marino and half time.

That sums it up.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

How many SB rings does Morino own???

3bn1mar

You are comparing a QB in his 16th start with one of the 5 best QB’s of all time. Get real.

AKDENFAN

Let Orton go in favor of 2nd string Tebow?! I thought you media goons, uh, I mean experts had said that Tebow was FOURTH string quarterback?, why didn’t they put in Quinn if Tebow was so far down the depth chart? Oh, I get it, the MEDIA was making up a non-existent story! Hey, I love the Broncos, but I live in AK, and so I still love the Plummer/Shanahan days, when they were WINNERS. But you “real” Denver fans got tired of winning–because you couldn’t get past the Colts–which is no damn crime–so Shanahan was sent packing and Plummer was run out of town, and what did it get you? The WORST record in football for a couple of years and NO playoff appearances for 6. Now Tebow is here, let’s hope that the powers that be will give him a REAL chance to be the starter at Denver–how about the chance that Hasselbach was given at Seattle to develop, think you Denver fans can give him that chance? IF that happens, I think the Broncos will once again become one of the most winning teams in the NFL, whether or not they can get Superbowls remains to be seen. Hey, this is just because I care man. cheers.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

First off Shanny was ran outta town for his constant failure to produce more than mediocre results after Elway retired. Mired in 8-8 season with complete late season melt downs. We made the playoffs once in 2005 with Plummer and Shanny is the one who yanked him, for the Cry baby Cutler. So I dont get your argument there cuz the only time Shanny was a consistent winner was with Elway. In fact when McD took over the roster he cut 80% of the players that Shanny had left him with. A total of 2 players of the 80% actually made it onto another roster. Talk about sad. Then McD continued the decimating of the roster with his bad FA moves and hit and miss drafting. The 5 bright spots of those drafts: Tebow, Thomas, Beadles, Walton, Decker.

As far as Tebow, I agree with you there. Give the kid his shot, he has earned it

Steve

That so called depth chart that supposedly showed Tebow as fourth string was a fabrication by Brandon Lloyd. Lloyd leaked a lot of garbage as the disgruntled player that he was. This was revealed after Lloyd was traded to St. Louis.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

That is a good point……Lloyd was a me me me player, in his contract year. He wanted out of Denver the second they started changing the offense to a run first philosophy. With out the passing numbers to “pad” his stats he wasn’t gonna get the “big” contract. He was planning on leaving Denver in the off season in FA anyway. At least we got some value from him (an extra 5th rounder). And got rid of a locker room cancer

Puckmeup

Dude, that’s not even remotely true!!! Lloyd wasn’t talking smack about anybody….even Unimportant Orton said that the guy who was most supportive of both him and Tebow, was Lloyd. Lloyd was pushed out because Denver had no money to pay him for an extended contract so they figured they would let him go during the season so they could at least get a 6th rounder for him, conditional upon how many passes he was able to catch for the Rams, which landed us a 5th rounder instead.

I love how everybody started chumpin’ him out once he left and tried to make it sound as though he was the enemy and had to go. That’s such BS at its best!!!! He was a good guy on and off the field and wanted to stay in Denver. Yes he was upset about the play calling earlier in the season because Fox was a “run first” coach and he knew that we weren’t gonna win by the run alone. He would be right about that one too!!!! But there’s no need to interject nonsense at this juncture trying to prove something that wasn’t there on any level. So please dude, stop with all that crap already!!!!!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Wrong? Id say your the one with the WRONG FACTS…….Look it
up….Denver was 22 million UNDER the cap this season….The decision to
trade Lloyd had nothing to do with money, and everything to do with his
attitude And the reason he was pissed about the play calling had
nothing to do with wins or losses. It had to do with HIS NUMBERS in a
CONTRACT YEAR!!!! With out the big numbers no BIG CONTRACT, its as
simple as that. Lloyd is a 30 year old WR on the back side of his
career looking for that last big pay day period. Before you try to
pass off your OPINIOIN as fact maybe you should do some research first

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

And personally I am soooooo glad Lloyd is gone! No more of that stupid “you cant see me” crap on a 5 yd catch when we needed 10 for a first down LMAO! Reminded me of Nate Webster celebrating like he made to SB game saving tackle after the RB dragged him for a 7 yd gain….

I didn’t miss him a bit, during the 6 game win streak, even during the 3 game losing streak. We made it to the Divisional Round of the playoffs with out him, and allowed DT to grow into the beast he is today! The scary thing is he still hasn’t even hit his prime yet!!! Lloyd who???? LMAO!!!

Puckmeup

Maybe you should start reading up on facts before you start spouting off numbers for a team who had the 3rd highest cap this year. Every team has “dead money” which can’t count towards the cap because it’s often used for unexpected signings and other unforeseen complications. Look it up!!!!

I never said ” he was pissed about the play calling had nothing to do with wins or losses”. He didn’t like the fact that Denver was moving to a run game over a passing game, which wouldn’t allow him to market himself for another team because the Broncos had no money to sign him to a long contract. Another FACT!!!!

If you’re gonna jump all over this blog and act as though you’re the freaking authority on every football matter that comes up, then maybe you should learn how to spell your “OPINION” before telling someone else to research:)

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

the Broncos are sitting at $97.984mil against a $120.375mil cap. That equals $22.931mil in room to spend in free agency, along with a 2011 requirement to spend 99% cash towards the cap, or a current minimum of $21.216miL…. Those are the numbers

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Article 11 of the new CBA contains the rules that will allow the league to transition into the new league year, and buried among the many items within it is the following subsection:

Section 5. Salaries and Salary Cap Accounting:

….(b) Proration From Preexisting Contracts. ….(i) No signing bonus proration to the League Years of this Agreement shall apply for any Preexisting Contract that was terminated, traded or assigned via waivers prior to March 11, 2011….

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

In case you missed it…t this means for Denver is that the proration cap penalty of Williams,,Bannen and Graham, who were all cut on March 3rd will not apply.
This frees up $11.676million to be used immediately in free agency, though the approximate cap hit of $900,000 for Buckhalter will still apply/

Uhhhhhmmmmm Yes that about spells it out for you about “dead money” Now I will bet the house that you resort to more personal attacks…..

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

I grow weary of proving you wrong time and time again. Its comparable to watching a one legged man in an a$$ kicking contest, at first it’s funny as hell, but after a while it’s just plain cruel.

Puckmeup

The ONLY thing Lloyd said from the beginning was that the “QB controversy was from the media and fans alike and that it was distracting for the rest of the team”. He was right on both accounts. But that doesn’t make him the enemy here by any means. He supported Orton and he supported Tebow…why is that so hard for people to get their heads around???

AKDENFAN

Hey Disturbed, I thought Shanahan was consistent with Plummer over those years too. The one playoff game/appearance is somewhat deceptive as the Broncs had a first round bye. Yeah, Pitt got us in the AFC game-but that has been avenged now hasn’t it! I guess I’m still crying for Shanahan because the team was good, perhaps mediocre, but good, then the Boy Wonder came in (Bowlen’s fault) and did his thing. I’m one of those guys who end up liking teams/players when seemingly everybody says they suck, like with Elway and the Broncos being the biggest “losers” in the world because they couldn’t win a SuperBowl. They also said Elway was crap because his numbers could never compare to Marino, Montana, et al. So, that turned me into a superfan of the Broncs and Elway because they were NEVER “losers” (yeah, I understand our society does this). And looking back now, Elway will always be mentioned as one of the best ever, while Marino and Kelly fade away into memory (unfairly). Lastly, I can’t have Brady make the SuperBowl again because I want Elway to stay as the quarterback who has started the most SuperBowls! no, not Montana, Bradshaw, etc. cheers man!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

I still believe to this day that if John Elway’s talent had not been miss-used for the better part of a decade (yes I am looking at you Reeves) he would have had more SB appearances and SB WINS! But just think if we had the same fans back then as we do today; Elway would never have been given a second season, let alone 17 years. Elway’s first season was as up and down. When he was on WOW what a display, and when he was off…ugh it was ugly to the point of humorous. Back then the measure for a QB’s growth was measured in YEARS, most rookie QB’s never even saw the field unless dire situations called for it. Most of em held a clip board for at least 2 years then had another 3 years to develop as starters. Now its 3/4 of a season and your a bust even after you win a first round playoff game. LMAO how the times have changed.

And one thing I did forget, with Plummer we did make it to 2 wildcard games that we lost. 2003 (10-6) we got routed by the Colts 41-10 and then 2004 (10-6) got routed by the Colts again 49-24. So yes Shanny did have some success with Plummer I obviously preferred to forget about those games, and for good reason LOL

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

I hate ghost replys….system fail!

Sphawke54

What business did the Patriots have paying McDaniels to be in the booth at the last minute to provide incite into the Broncos game? Were they that afraid of the Broncos that they needed to stack the cards in their favor or couldn’t they find any other way to compete on the field? Do they have no ethics or morals or pride in their own ability to compete?
I’m sorry the season had to end but it was a great ride. I look forward to next year and hope to see continued improvement in Tebow and the rest of the team. I would suggest the addition of a couple of powerful tight ends to add to the passing and protection game. Go Broncos ! ! ! ! !
Craig Davis
Ocala, FL

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

I honestly think that McD had nothing to do with the debacle on Saturday Night. About the only thing he could have “known” was player back ground. We had completely changed the off. and def. after he had left. BB is now 14-2 with an extra week to prepare for an opponent. And extra week of rest for the players at the end of the season is HUGE also. They came out on fire and we looked flat, and tired. This happens with young teams, and we just flat out got outplayed in every phase of the game. We have the second youngest OL in the league, started 5 different rookies this season, and a 2nd year “rookie” QB, with 2nd year WR’s. The core is there, now its time to fill in the missing pieces

Anonymous

I liked the in flight back and forth you guys did. I hope to s more of this from you guys

brad01

tebow is a joke love the mans faith and hard work mentality but he cant read or beat zone coverage thats how the 31st defense in the league was able to obliterate him and i dont want to hear about the steelers win they had several key players out and big ben was hurt bad, That game was the exception anyway the pats game was the normal play we are used to seeing from him and all you who are saying he needs more talent you build a team around a franchise QB tebows stats and the way he looked awful in all but maybe a few games and backed in to the playoffs in the worst division in football last year is proof enough that tebow is not that and prob never will be you don win championships from niceness faith work ethic you actually need talent sorry thats the NFL this isnt the NCAA

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

WOW, was that all one sentence? Almost gave me a headache just trying to read it.
OK on to your first miss-conception: 17 games and no TC or OTA’s = hard time reading Defenses. Give him a full off season and he WILL learn.
The Squeelers win: First off, the only time I ever saw Ben “limping” was after he made a mistake LMAO. I played with guys like that, and everyone knows “that guy”. Second off the guy should be in prison sharing a cell with Perish Cox. Third the Broncos had twice the number of starters on IR than the Squeelers, Try again
We just finished the first year of a three year “re-building” project, and we made it to the Divisional Round of the playoffs. I would say we are way ahead of the curve here. As for talent what do you think changed this team from a 1-4 start to an 8-8 finish and an AFC West title? With our young core of players we have yet to see their “talent ceiling”, and I feel they are only going to get better with practice and experience. Closing the book on them is not only narrow minded but also shows the type of fan you are.

Rrumpot

Elway needs to put the pads on, and pick up the phone and call Terrell Davis ask if he can help him win another Superbowl, something Elway never could do before Davis arrived. One thing is for certain, there is absolutely no future for Kiszla. and without Tebow…Elway’s future with the Broncos will be cut short.. Fans rule!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

I never said we didnt have holes on this team still. That fact is obvious. I was stressing the point about him whining about “losing out”on a top ten draft spot. Like he wanted the Broncos to LOSE all season. With fans like that who needs enemies LMAO! And that mentality is absolutely absurd. Its backward logic at best and just shows his true football IQ. Then he followed it up exactly as I thought he would. he wanted us to SUCK for LUCK. Which was his whole point to begin with. Then when he realizes I called him out on his irrational and moronic logic he starts with the personal insults. So I dont see anywhere where he was “right”

Puckmeup

What I said was, he was “partially right” about the fact that because the Broncos were able to make the playoffs, their success lowered our drafting table considerably. Meaning, even if they wanted to pick up a new QB, there wouldn’t be much available by the time it was our turn to select. I personally think it’s retarded to purposely lose in order to gain a high draft pick, not to mention, unethical!!!! So no, I would never agree a team should punk out like that. But yeah, this draft ought to be interesting for a variety of reasons.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Your point about Lloyd is actually kinda funny. I wouldn’t consider an extra 5th rounder a bag of footballs. Here are a few questions to ask yourself about Lloyd (a “dvia” WR in his “contract year”:
Do you think he would have been happy with a 9 pass attempt game? NO
Do you think he would have been happy blocking for the run game? NO
Do you think he would have voiced his “unhappiness” in the locker room or to the media? Hell YES.

We got value for a player who would have just “walked” at the end of the season as well as cleared out a locker room cancer, all in one move Pretty smart business move in my book!

Puckmeup

With talent like his, hell no he shouldn’t be used as blocking receiver or be content with 9 passes coming his way! If I were him, you damn right I’d be vocal about it too! As far as getting value, how do you know that when A) The draft isn’t even here yet. B) We have NO idea how that 5th round pick will pan out for us, and C) Considering we need to start looking at getting another receiver again (because I seriously doubt Royal will be back), when we already had one but couldn’t pay him??? Think bro! This trade has availed us nothing as of right now!!!!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Say we would have kept him. Do you really think he would have even considered re-signing a contract with the Broncos? The answer is hell no. He would have walked. He walks and what do we get? We might, and I say MIGHT get compensatory pick in the 2013 draft in maybe the 7th round (after all 32 picks of the 7th round), and we are in the same boat, minus a WR All that and not even mentioning what he could have done to the morale or chemistry of the team.

With those facts I would say an extra 5th round draft pick is a gold mine. The later round picks are used for depth on a roster, and with all the holes we have on this team right now the more draft picks the better. EFX’s goal is to increase the talent on this roster from top to bottom as a whole, and they want to do it through the draft. This draft in particular is real deep in terms of positions of need on this team. There is no telling what kind of talent could “fall into our lap” in the 5th round. After all Tom Brady was a 7th round draft pick

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

yet another system fail !

Gia

Tebow is not a great qb as of yet but with the right organization & training he definitely could be. He has the potential and drive to become a great quarter back. The broncos are not a great football team now and before Tebow became there qb. The game against the Patriots was horrific because he did not have an o-line at all. No tight ends and no receivers. The Patriots beat the hell out of him. He even played injured and no one new till days later. The Patriots have a great o-line and two great weapons gronk and hernandez. Give Tebow a break he isn’t as good as Brady because Brady’s been playing for what 11 years for the same organization who wanted him from the beginning the Patriots and they have the Best Coach Bill B.! The Broncos Coach Fox can’t compare. Tebow didn’t even start the season as the starting quarter back and yet he won 7 games with the horrible Broncos. And he won a playoff game. I don’t think he should trust Elway either to be successful you need an organization who really wants and believes in you and the Broncos don’t. No matter what Elway says he didn’t draft Tebow he didn’t want him from the beginning and he still doesn’t. Tebow should go where he is really wanted respected and appreciated. He is a running quarter back and if they don’t work with that for next season they won’t be a success. Of course he needs to learn how to throw better inside the pocket and needs a lot of improvements with just becoming faster and improve his foot work and that will come but I don’t believe it will be under the Elway/Broncos regime. I Believe in Tebow but not the Bronco’s

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Are you Skip Brainless err Bayless in disguise??? Cuz you sure sound like him! almost word for word HAHAHAHAHAHA.

AKDENFAN

Disturbed, yeah, I remember the other playoff games, I meant the references to “only 1 playoff win” since Elway–which has been fixed now too! I concur about Reeves, way, way too conservative, run the game that way, then in the 4th quarter cut Elway loose, and that’s how he becomes the most winning quarterback in 4th qtr. I do agree that Broncos could have gone to SuperBowl even more times, but, no complaints, the way things worked out for Elway/Broncos will always be my greatest football memories, the rest of my life, seeing them go out on top, with those two wins, then Elway walking off into the sunset, perfect. This season will also be among my great football memories, the Broncos going 1-4 then making the playoffs, and winning a game to boot. I’ve never said that Tebow would become the greatest, I’ve been saying that I think that he will become a good quarterback in the NFL, and I’m standing by that, let’s hope the Broncos provide enough weapons to compliment him, and let’s hope Elways does in fact spend as much time as he can with Tim, Hey, it’s ELWAY man! If he spent time with me or you we might actually gain some quarterbacking skills! cheers.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_CZPN4OWT53EPRS5DBOWOPVM2N4 Disturbed

Yes great memories! I was at the airport every time they landed coming back from those SB defeats along with a real great crowd of FANS who were still proud of what they accomplished. We were all hopeful for the next season. I haven’t felt that way in a long time until the end of this season. The future is bright, and I can’t wait until next season to see how much our young players have progressed! This could be the start of a new “era” in Bronco football!

Mike Klis has been with The Denver Post since 1998, after working 13 years with the Colorado Springs Gazette Telegraph. Major League Baseball was Klis' initial passion. He started covering the Colorado Rockies after Coors Field was approved for construction in August 1990.

Nicki Jhabvala is the Sports Digital News Editor for The Denver Post. Before arriving in Denver, she spent five years at Sports Illustrated working primarily as its online NBA editor, and she was most recently the overnight home page editor at the New York Times. She has reported regularly on the Broncos since joining the staff.

A published author and award-winning journalist, Benjamin Hochman is a sports columnist for The Denver Post. He previously worked on the staff of the New Orleans Times-Picayune, winners of two Pulitzer Prizes for their Hurricane Katrina coverage.