Is there any way to reduce the height/size of the Toolbars in EDITOR.
- on my 40cm (15+inches) Toshiba laptop the toolbars take up a lot of vertical space.

The "Properties" toolbar has to be enabled (showing) with Ctrl+E
-OR- through MenuBar > View > Toolbars > Properties Toolbar ... a lot of clicking to edit text
- unfortunately Ctrl+E does not toggle the visible/hidden property of the "Properties" toolbar
- I realize the "Properties" toolbar is volatile depending on the active selected object.

EDITOR toolbars are (IMHO) oversized. (Probably suitable for vision impaired)
- each toolbar is two rows high, as the toolbar area appears to be a locked-in at a single toolbar height.
** see attached images comparing EDITOR and VIEWER toolbar setout.

Thank you for noticing this. Please try moving your mouse around the bottom edge of any toolbar and you will notice that your mouse cursor will change to what appears to be a resize pointer. You can drag this line up and down increasing or decreasing that toolbar's size from 1 to 2 lines or from 2 to 1 line. Your tool icons should change with the toolbar's size.

Special wrote:Sorry to highjack this thread but the Toolbars really need a *lock option to prevent moving/closing/editing of them when your semi happy with the layout.

Maybe useful, but it is unnecessary. There's already an option to export your settings. If you do that, you can quickly and easily import them again if they do get messed up. Make a backup to external media or to DropBox. By default they are saved in the %AppData% folder, which is fine until your hard drive gets trashed, or your computer gets stolen.

Radi wrote:Thank you for noticing this. Please try moving your mouse around the bottom edge of any toolbar and you will notice that your mouse cursor will change to what appears to be a resize pointer. You can drag this line up and down increasing or decreasing that toolbar's size from 1 to 2 lines or from 2 to 1 line. Your tool icons should change with the toolbar's size.
I hope this helps!

Sorry to say it does NOT help!

the icons do not change size, but icon caption's "position" (property) changes from "bottom" to "right"
At no point do toolbar icons change in size

the icons in Editor are too large for my (and I presume all) laptops ... (on the planet)

Editor toolbars default to two rows within each toolbar, with multi-toolbars open
Please look at my uploaded EDITOR image again -- I have outlined double-row toolbars

dragging the bottom of the toolbars-area up does NOT reduce the height of the icons
It only truncates each open toolbar and adds a drop-down to the end of each toolbar
Which totally negates the entire concept of ribbons and large icons
As I stated in Post#1, VIEWER icons are smaller than EDITOR icons

I still don't have answers to Q1 and Q2

Can captions in Toolbars be hidden, leaving only icons ?Currently each button/control has:-

an icon

a caption

a popup description

... more than enough ID in my opinion

Quite honestly EDITOR toolbars on a laptop occupy too much space on a 15½ inch (40cm) monitor
- and with many toolbars open (eg, 3 or 4) the toolbar area can be way to deep/high
... and then by dragging the bottom of toolbar bar up we are back to truncated toolbars, with dual rows in each toolbar

SUGGESTION: for preferences
• Option to hide/show captions
• Options for large --OR-- small icons ... (large as per current icon sizes)

@ Bhikkhu Pesala
Your idea to save settings in case toolbars are "spoiled" is a good idea.

For Win7 users the SaveAs dialog is a shambles (a MS bug)
- a bug that MS will never rectify (in Win7), the "Favorites" folder is highlighted in the navigation pane
- which bares no relevance to the folder displayed in the files/details pane
- which bares no resemblance to the path in the address bar

The icons do become larger and smaller when you make the toolbar height double/single rows. Not all of them - but e.g. the hand tool, or the "Rotate View" buttons do become larger.

While there is no option to hide the captions they will automatically truncate - please take a look at the attached image - I managed to fit my Editor in a 1021 px wide window without any toolbar being compatced to a drop down menu. And if I move e.g. the area toolbar on the second row - I might barely fit with 2 rows on a 800px wide screen. It's been several years since I've seena 1024px x ... screen resolution. You are most likely running 1280 or 1366px screen.

Now the vertical estate on a laptop screen might be more problematic, but the Editor toolbars are 32px tall, when the Viewer ones were 28px - so in total you have 8 pixels less on the vertical with two rows of toolbars. The icons in the Editor are larger and appear larger - but are also better utilizing the space available, so while they feel much bigger in fact they are not.

Now the option to permanently turn the captions off is a good one, and we will pass it along.
The request to lock toolbars is also meaningful as such an option was present in the Viewer - so it will also be added to the list of requests.

Here is what happens when I use the Commenting or Properties buttons. I like how Tracker has these work. For me, the interface is superior to the Viewer, and I loved the Viewer. My computer is a Dell Vostro with a 15.4" screen and it is set at 1280 x 800 pixels. In this mode be careful if you have to change Rectangle Properties. If you use the More properties button with Fill Colors, the program will crash. Tracker Support is already aware of the problem.

We do asbestos abatement/mold remediation/lead paint removal and I live working in the Editor reading surveys, specifications, etc.

the one-size-fits-all concept of so many apps/OSs to-day is very frustrating (like a one-size-fits-all hats ... they don't !)
Henry Ford used to offer ... "any color you like ... as long as it is black" ... where would Ford be today if they still only offered black !

At a guess, 3 options for PDF-XChange toolbars would broaden the user base ... more win/win for Users/Tracker

• medium or small icons
• with or without captions
• with or without popup-reminder**

What I find a futile exercise is "fatter" app toolbars require bigger monitors > bigger desks > sitting further away from the screen > requiring more office space ... and the winner is the landlord and IT hardware purveyors.

I am a consulting engineers (6 of us + 2) and we spend all of our days on AutoCad ... we still run AutoCad 2006 on all machines, because of its tight toolbars. And it still easily fulfills our needs without having to upgrade to bells and whistles.
On the side, I write addins for Excel and AutoCad. 90% driven with keyboard shortcuts.
All my team each have 25+ years of experience, and we work fast without having to rely on mouse clicks for fundamental commands.

For over 20 years I always trusted an IT tech ($$) to fix PCs. After too many sub standard IT "services", I decided to tackle our IT fixes myself. In the process I discovered the power of PDF. The paper war has always been a nightmare.
For several years we used MS Word to mark up preliminary specifications/contracts. It was always subject to problems, but better than trawling through "paper".

PDF has also streamlined documentation between us and clients (most are builders, I think you call them general contractors). I have had to coach a few onto PDF-XChange, especially when they see the price tag on "Axxxbat"

Don't get me wrong ... I am not against change ... but too often change is for change sake and new toys.

As it stands we will use VIEWER with its more compact toolbars area and keep an eye on developments in EDITOR.

At the moment I create PDF in Linux which is not exactly convenient nor versatile.
The annual fee for Windows apps has started me investigating Linux for OS and CAD software ... a real challenge for this reptilian brain

I understand where you are coming from. I use whatever software gets my work done the fastest. I still use a program called Sidekick from Borland dated 1997. Still today I cannot find a program to equal it. I still use WordPerfect when everyone else has moved to Word. I use Excel 2000 for all my estimating, and learned to write macros to streamline everything. I have a number of later versions of Excel, but I like that version the best. I have been doing asbestos abatement for over 30 years now.

I waited until this last build of the Editor to switch, because I liked the Viewer so much. I was really surprised at how quickly I became comfortable with the Editor. By law I have to submit post job paperwork to my clients after each job. The new features in the Editor such as the Combine Files tool and Resize Pages tool, coupled with the revamped Links tool allow me to do that much easier. When I have to do takeoffs from blueprints, the Editor is just as easy to use as the Viewer.

I receive virtually everything I bid on in the form of a pdf these days. I now send everything out that way also. I scan all paper licenses, training, etc., into pdf format, so everything remains digital. I started moving in this direction years ago using Paperport. Our head office did not understand why I was doing it. I just felt that the pdf format was going to be the new paper in our industry.

Thanks Arnold for sharing your background with me,
- a lot of experience by the sound of it.

I have discovered I can drag the "Properties" toolbar onto the MenuBar bar.
- the "Properties" tbar now appears without captions + small icons
- and the TBar is always in the same place irrespective of mode, and it shows ALL the controls I want without truncation

Given previous conversations with the Dev. Team, I believe that we are planning to include an option for smaller toolbar icons (though I would need to double check this), but the problem with adding an option for lots of different icons sizes, is that we would need to create different icons for each size. This can cause the size of the installed app to bloat quite a bit.

I don't know how many icons we have, offhand, so consider the following purely an example: i.e. we have 20 different icons, having 3 different sizes for each icon (small, medium and large) would mean three different images for each icon, so the size of the file that contains the icons would be (very roughly) close to 3 times larger.

So it's not an outright no, by any means, just one of several things that we have to consider. I'll pass the suggestion along to the Dev. Team and, ultimately, will have to leave it up to them and the CEO

Cheers,

If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

I think the existing icon size is large enough for "ribbon lovers" on decent size monitors. . . . eg, Rigs with monitors
- you would have a better idea than me about users wants, based on feedback to Tracker ... I guess.
- I appreciate there will always be "somebody" who is not happy with something.

My suggestion is for two icon sizes only. The existing (as large) plus small (to suit, laptops)
- my laptop is 40cm (15½"), but we also run 4 rigs with 28" monitors (AutoCad)
The rigs are not web-connected, to comply with some contract conditions.
- I must try EDITOR on one of the rigs, not sure if it will install without web connection?

I have developed a "Global" addin with 68 features for MS Excel (MS pre-ribbon).
- the addin installs itself (as a menu) on the Excel Menubar immediately to the right of the "Help" control on Excel 2003 menubar,
- irrespective of how many other menu-controls there are after the "Help" menu
- the "Global" menu contains about 15 sub menus
- every sub-menu has a hot-key ... about 95% of action controls have a hot-key
- the Global menu is designed to run 95% of the time via the keyboard.
- odd features (about 10 of them, rarely used) require a mouse click.

The number of complaints and requests I have had over the years for different hot-keys, order of sub-menus, different icons, but-you-left-out?, but why-did-you-include?, colors, font-lists, bigger, smaller, too-long, too short, but-why? ... etc .

Decent size monitors ?
- a very subjective "subject"

EDITOR
With the Properties toolbar in "text" mode, and located in the MenuBar bar, the captions are disabled.
Maybe, one avenue to investigate is toolbar sizes (Standard or Small) where captions are disabled when small.
Personally I think two icon-size options are enough.
- there will always be some turkey with a 2metre (6ft) screen who will complain
Optional two rows of small toolbars would be a dream come true, for laptops. (Hint!)
- VIEWER toolbars are a perfect example
- I cannot buy VIEWER as part of PRO ... so I will keep an eye on EDITOR development

As EDITOR (and probably other Tracker tools) is currently hindering (IMO) convenience on smaller screens, I thought some setting options might attract more laptop users and of course ME!
Assuming (the subjective problem again) that laptop owners are less inclined to use/buy apps with oversized toolbars/ribbons.

In my own experience with 7 employees and an occasional grizzle (I have to "dig" for virtues) we are up against display space for the job at hand. We have tried bigger monitors (forAutoCad) but from a get-a-break point of view diverting eyes away from screens is essential to avoid eye fatigue.
Personally, sweeping a mouse pointer across large screens is very tiring when keyboard-shortcuts are much quicker.
- that is not a hint !

I have just started dabbling in Linux Mint, because the bells and whistles of Windows crud is becoming a hindrance.
- Mint boots in a quarter of the time to Windows -- testing on an 8 year old Acer with 2GB RAM and <500GB HDD
- the Mint forum is very busy with Windows refugees and enquiries.

Options to reduce the toolbars size by optioning out captions could be a winner for me.

The Windows fashion of ribbons and touch-screens have their place in POS (mouse-less) situations.
- but too often professional users are sidelined in favour of fanboys.

Not a problem Have just had the discussion with the Dev. Team again - looks like it is planned, it's just currently considered of a low priority, I'm afraid. We have a lot of other, more highly requested features planned, as well as bug fixes and the release of the Editor SDK (our current No. 1 priority), but rest assured that we will get to it! I just can't confirm when, for now.

- I must try EDITOR on one of the rigs, not sure if it will install without web connection?

An internet connect is only required if you're trying to activate an activation code (supplied specifically when purchasing through resellers), so you should be fine to do this. Here's the download link:http://www.tracker-software.com/PDFXVE5.zip

Essentially, I believe that we're looking to go with the 3-size option, simply because we know that we'd likely have some user's complain either way, as you pointed out. This way, we can appeal to more users in one 'shot', rather than having to look at this again, down the line. This is not yet set in stone though, given that all even the Dev. Team really know at this point, is that it's planned.

I'm using a 16" laptop at the moment and, for what I use the Editor for, the icon sizes work great:

The Windows fashion of ribbons and touch-screens have their place in POS (mouse-less) situations. - but too often professional users are sidelined in favour of fanboys.

*shudders* I personally hate those ribbon toolbars. Don't get me wrong, I can see their value and where/how they would be useful, but they're not for me.

For now, my suggestion would be, when you have the time, to really play around with the UI Customization:

- Custom Keyboard Shortcuts:: These are pretty powerful in the Editor. You can set shortcuts like Ctrl + H + Numpad 1 or Ctrl + H + 1, etc., for individual tool customizations (i.e. Ctrl + H + 1 could be the default highlighter, while Ctrl + H + Numpad 1 could be your own preset). I may be remembering wrong, but I believe that you're already aware of how to set custom shortcuts? If not, let me know and I'll provide instructions.

- Customized Toolbars:: Sounds like you are already pretty familiar with this, but take a look at my screen-shots above (Toolbar 2.zip). I have a very heavy customization that pockets everything neatly where I want it, perhaps something similar would suit you, until the alternate icon sizes are offered?

- Customized Menus:: I believe that you maybe aware of this too, but menus (i.e. Tools menu) can be altered to contain only what you want them to. This maximizes toolbar space, while adding everything that you use frequently to one menu, while removing everything that you don't use.

Cheers

If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

- Customized Toolbars:: Sounds like you are already pretty familiar with this, but take a look at my screen-shots above (Toolbar 2.zip). I have a very heavy customization that pockets everything neatly where I want it, perhaps something similar would suit you, until the alternate icon sizes are offered?

I have several questions

Toolbar_1.png
- very impressiveQ1: How did you get two rows of toolbars, no captions?
- but particularly the multiple rows. Are they custom tbars or modified existing tbars ?
- if I can get my tools area looking like yours and with "Properties" tbar all in one row I would be a very happy camper.

Row #3 "Exclusive Mode"
- is the contents of that row one tbar
- "Properties" caption is not the default "No Properties" when no document is open
- or is "Properties" a custom command to enable the floating TBar as illustrated on "Toolbar_2.png"

Toolbar_2.png
- the floating toolbar looks like a custom tbar with a selection of your custom "tools" (commands)
- so how do you display the custom tbar ?

I know the tiny triangle-thingy(TTs) at the beginning of each toolbar -- hides/shows the Tbar.
- clicking on one of those TTs is like threading a needle with boxing gloves on

Can custom Toolbars be toggled show/hide with custom commands ?
- JavaScript ? ... as per Customize dialog > Commands (tab) > JavaScript Console
- I have fiddled a little with JScript in MS-VBA and script-files -- is JavaScript one in the same ?
- if it is I will have to dust of my notes plus a lot of coffee to get my head around JScript again

Do I overwrite my existing version v5.5.308.2 with the extracted "PDFXV5.zip"

- Customized Menus:: I believe that you maybe aware of this too, but menus (i.e. Tools menu) can be altered to contain only what you want them to. This maximizes toolbar space, while adding everything that you use frequently to one menu, while removing everything that you don't use.

How does modifying default menus "maximise toolbar space" ?

I hope I havent stretched the friendship with my many questions ?
Thank you so much for your help ... very much appreciated

I hope I havent stretched the friendship with my many questions ?
Thank you so much for your help ... very much appreciated

No worries at all. That's why we're here

Q1: How did you get two rows of toolbars, no captions?
- but particularly the multiple rows. Are they custom tbars or modified existing tbars ?
- if I can get my tools area looking like yours and with "Properties" tbar all in one row I would be a very happy camper

Whether or not there are captions depends on how expanded/contracted your toolbars are, as well as how much space is available on screen. i.e. That's how it looks on my 16" laptop, but I have the same customization (via settings export/import), on my 28" screens back in Canada and the captions do show. Also, the drop-down with all of my custom presets is not a drop-down on the 28" screen, it is a full toolbar with all of the toolbar available with 1 button click.

The toolbar can be expanded/contracted by hovering your cursor over the little 'bridge' between two toolbars, until a small double-headed arrow appears, then left clicking and dragging up/down.

That's right - the UI Customization is available after you go to View --> Toolbars --> Customize Toolbars. You can then drag and drop to rearrange toolbars & menu items, as well as drag Commands from the Commands tab, onto a toolbar or under a menu heading.

Row #3 "Exclusive Mode"
- is the contents of that row one tbar
- "Properties" caption is not the default "No Properties" when no document is open
- or is "Properties" a custom command to enable the floating TBar as illustrated on "Toolbar_2.png"

The Properties Toolbar, as you may have noticed already, is a dynamic toolbar who's options change, depending on the given context (i.e. Which tool or object is selected). Some tools do not have any options (i.e. Hand Tool, Text Select Tool, etc.), this is why you'll sometimes see "No Properties".

The floating toolbar that you mentioned, from Toolbar 2.png, is actually not a floating toolbar, it just looks like it in the screen-shot. This is actually a sub-menu, as there is not enough space on the screen to fit all of those tools onto one toolbar, so the Editor compensates by automatically creating a "Commenting" button, that then expands down into a sub-menu with all of those tools. If you look carefully at Toolbar 2.png, you should see the little drop-down arrow, in the right-hand corner of the "Commenting" button. Again, this is dependent on how much toolbar space is available and how much is needed.

Are all your tbars custom tbars ?

To some degree, yes. I've removed some things from row two, as well as added some and have added some to the first row (the menu row).

I know the tiny triangle-thingy(TTs) at the beginning of each toolbar -- hides/shows the Tbar.
- clicking on one of those TTs is like threading a needle with boxing gloves on

I have to agree with that, but it is very hard to balance the large enough icons with precious space. I'll speak with the Dev. Team to see if they can at least make the activation radius a little larger, so that users don't have to be so specific with their clicks.

Can custom Toolbars be toggled show/hide with custom commands ?
- JavaScript ? ... as per Customize dialog > Commands (tab) > JavaScript Console
- I have fiddled a little with JScript in MS-VBA and script-files -- is JavaScript one in the same ?
- if it is I will have to dust of my notes plus a lot of coffee to get my head around JScript again

That is a very good question........ I'm not 100% sure offhand, but I don't believe so and, unless I'm being dense, can't find the option. I'll put this forward too.

Do I overwrite my existing version v5.5.308.2 with the extracted "PDFXV5.zip"

The ZIP folder contains an executable - if you run this EXE, it will simply overwrite your existing installation. If you installed using the MSI previously, I would Strongly recommend that you uninstall the Editor and restart your computer first. If you can't remember which you used previously, it may be best to just uninstall and restart as a precaution.

How does modifying default menus "maximise toolbar space" ?

In essence, this would allow you to remove many (or all) toolbar items, except for the menus. You could then add all of the commands that you use to different menus and/or sub-menus, to make everything that you need, available from one menu. This means that there is no clutter on the toolbar, but it may (depending on how many things you shove under one menu/sub-menu), make the menu a little large for the screen. It's just another option when thinking of organizing.

I just checked and it appears that the option to create new, custom menus is greyed out, so I would suspect that this hasn't yet been implemented, but is planned. I've contacted the Dev. to confirm this and am waiting to hear back (he's in Canada [PST -8:00 UTC]).

The following is my own settings files. I've included one with my custom colouration and one without (it's definitely not for everyone - my colleagues hate it ), you may find them to your liking, or at least a good starting point for further customization:

I just realized I didn't address your question regarding JavaScript - I've not heard the term J-Script, but I would assume it's just another name for it (like JS). You can add the Open JavaScript Console button to the toolbar via the Commands menu, mentioned in the previous post, but it may be easier just to hit Ctrl + J to bring it up.

I've not really done any JS myself, but (supposedly) it's one of the easier languages to learn, at least, that's what I've been told. Not having looked into it, I can't really comment there, you likely have a deeper knowledge of JS than myself

If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

Very interesting thread.
Great tip to put properties on the same line with the menu. Hiding the menu makes this even more effective.

I also second the wish for an option to hide captions. Either when shrinking the toolbar to less vertical space, or ideally, on a one-by-one basis, similar to the viewer, where you can pick your choice for each button separately.

How do you control whether to use the small or large icon of command? It seems kind of random. The only toolbar on which I managed to get small icons is the Zoom toolbar. So I burdened it with nearly all my buttons.

Btw, dragging buttons onto a newly created toolbar will crash the program.

How do you control whether to use the small or large icon of command? It seems kind of random. The only toolbar on which I managed to get small icons is the Zoom toolbar. So I burdened it with nearly all my buttons.

This only really depends on how much space there is on the toolbar and/or whether or not you have the toolbars contracted/expanded. If an icon doesn't shrink, it's likely because we have not made a smaller icon for it.

Btw, dragging buttons onto a newly created toolbar will crash the program.

I'm not seeing this here. Are you using the 32-bit or 64-bit Editor? Also, is the new toolbar floating, or docked? Are you dragging the new commands from existing toolbars, from within the toolbar menus, or from the Customize Toolbars --> Commands dialogue?

Cheers,

If posting files to this forum, you must archive the files to a ZIP, RAR or 7z file or they will not be uploaded.
Thank you.

all my issues refer to PDF-XChange Editor 5.5 (Build 312.1)
The About box does not say whether it's 32 or 64. I guess it's probably 64 because the exe resides in Program Files and not Program Files (x86) and because I am on Win7 64 and I simply had clicked the download link that came with my order confirmation.

Will - Tracker Supp wrote:
If an icon doesn't shrink, it's likely because we have not made a smaller icon for it.

I don't think that's the cause of what I am experiencing. Let's tie it to a specific example: my Zoom TB currently shows up as a two-liner, two rows of commands, some with icons, some without.
1) "Properties Pane" will show/hide the properties side panel - it's an icon-button
2) "Measurement Toolbar" wil show/hide the measurement TB - this button is spelled out in letters, w/o icon

Either one can be dragged anywhere else. If dragged within the Zoom toolbar, I get a "half-size" vertical drop-zone indicator, for top or bottom row. If dragged onto any other (!) toolbar, I get a full-size drop-zone indicator only, to drop it left or right of existing buttons. Let me emphasize that I can do both variations for both, 1) and 2). In other words, there obviously does exist a small icon for 1) and the icon-argument does not apply to 2) anyway.

It seems to me that small or large does not depend on the button properties itself, but rather depends on the toolbar (Zoom, Standard, File etc) which holds the command - no mixed cases possible, a given toolbar has to be either 2-rows (small commands) or 1-row (large commands).
Question A) Can you confirm this?

If so, the zoom toolbar is the only one that shows up as a 2-liner. I wonder if this is by default or if I happened to cause other toolbars to "lose" their 2-liner ability by emptying them accidentally, then filling them up again, and ever since they've become stuck in 1-row mode. But I am very iffy about this.

Question B) How do I turn a toolbar into 2-row mode?
Or if your answer to my question A) is negative, how do I mix in small commands with large commands, how do I place small 2-rows next to large 1-row?

My last attempt to get another 2-rows TB - in addition to the zoom-TB, the only 2-row TB that I have been able to achieve - was by setting up a new toolbar altogether.

Will - Tracker Supp wrote:
is the new toolbar floating, or docked?

floating, it came up like this after clicking "New..." on the "Customize Toolbars" dialog

Will - Tracker Supp wrote:
Are you dragging the new commands from existing toolbars, from within the toolbar menus, or from the Customize Toolbars --> Commands dialogue?

from existing toolbars - crash
from the customize dialog - crash
from within toolbar menus - not sure what you mean by that. With an open customize dialog, I tried dragging items from the menu bar, or rather sub-menu flyouts - crash as well

Excuse my lengthy wording, trying to make sure we're on the same terms.
Thanks for taking the time to help out.

all my issues refer to PDF-XChange Editor 5.5 (Build 312.1)
The About box does not say whether it's 32 or 64. I guess it's probably 64 because the exe resides in Program Files and not Program Files (x86) and because I am on Win7 64 and I simply had clicked the download link that came with my order confirmation.

If you have 64-bit Windows and used the link in the email, then you're correct, it would be 64-bit.

I don't think that's the cause of what I am experiencing. Let's tie it to a specific example: my Zoom TB currently shows up as a two-liner, two rows of commands, some with icons, some without.
1) "Properties Pane" will show/hide the properties side panel - it's an icon-button
2) "Measurement Toolbar" wil show/hide the measurement TB - this button is spelled out in letters, w/o icon

I'm not seeing any difference in icon size, at all. This is purely because of how my toolbars are setup, my screen resolution, size and the DPI settings within Windows. Can you please go to Edit --> Export Settings... and send the settings that you are using? Also, please try resetting your settings, then playing with the toolbars and seeing if you see the same thing. Lastly, please advise on your screen-resolution, screen size and your Windows DPI settings:https://www.lawfirmsoftware.com/support ... dows_7.htm

Question B) How do I turn a toolbar into 2-row mode?
Or if your answer to my question A) is negative, how do I mix in small commands with large commands, how do I place small 2-rows next to large 1-row?

This depends entirely on how many items are on a toolbar, and how much room it has to expand. Eventually, it will have to many items and too little room, then will organize. Again, this depends entirely on the factors listed above.

from existing toolbars - crash
from the customize dialog - crash
from within toolbar menus - not sure what you mean by that. With an open customize dialog, I tried dragging items from the menu bar, or rather sub-menu flyouts - crash as well

I'm using the commercial release (same as yourself) and I'm not able to reproduce this. Could you please provide a crash dump, then send it to support@tracker-software.com ? As we're not able to reproduce this here, we will need this to investigate further. Please be sure to include a reference to this topic.

To keep it simple, forget about the new toolbar issue for now. Not needed, I am fine with re-organizing the existing ones. My concern here is in line with the topic thread, to exercise some control over the appearance of toolbars. This will become even more of an issue when the Editor goes portable in a future version, you wouldn't want the toolbar to look completely different on various screens.

Will - Tracker Supp wrote:I'm not seeing any difference in icon size, at all.

But you mentioned the lack of smaller icons as a possible reason, so your icons must surely come in 2 sizes as well. I think we still have a misunderstanding here. I suggest we rather call it Full-height Button (FB) and Half-height Button (HB), irrespective of whether such a button actually has an icon, or is caption only.

I do realize that FB and HB will get distributed automatically, with or w/o caption, depending on the available room overall. And that I don't have much influence on how this re-distribution takes place. However, there seem to be ways to "trick" the system. One such trick is by dragging a FB onto a toolbar that sports HB only. No matter how many miles of free space overall, this will shrink the FB to a HB - and keep it at HB size w/o caption - just what I want.

What I have not figured out yet, how to tell a toolbar to switch from FB mode to HB mode, other than by trial and error, resetting the whole interface and starting over from scratch, dragging FB onto toolbars until they overflow and are forced into half HB size. Hoping for the "right" toolbar to get affected. It's a gamble.

What I also have not figured out yet, how to achieve a mixed toolbar consisting of both, FB and HB. Up til now, the automatic button-gambling machine has not produced such a combination.

In other words, I am trying to figure out what's intended behavior, what's a user mistake or wrong assumption, what workarounds are known to reign in the automatic process. Any tips that reduce the chance of luck element are highly welcome.

Thanks for the post. It is not currently possible to set a toolbar to contain HF FB without filling it, however, you can force the toolbar into the HB height to create the HB without jamming all the options to a toolbar. Do so by dragging the toolbar to a smaller size:

Advances are being made with regards to customizing the size of the toolbar items, though no definite plan has been announced as of yet. Unfortunately the issues here presents as a low priority at this time. An internal feature request has been made detailing the specifics.

I hope this helps a little, and we appreciate your patience in this matter.

Cheers!

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Thank you.

maybe I should have opened a new thread because it's not the thinner toolbar I am after. I actually like the bigger toolbar, especially the combination of FB and HB with and w/o captions. This provides a quick visual orientation not possible in the viewer.

What I struggle with is to KEEP those settings, my combinations of FH + HB + captions. I find myself too much at the mercy of automated overrides. Deleting or adding a custom preset can ruin my cherished layout because it shrinks/ enlarges/ adds captions. That's where the viewer excels by allowing to "freeze" a certain button state, if decide I don't want a caption, this setting will stick.

The viewer also offers more comfort to quickly adjust key shortcuts by right-clicking the button in the toolbar itself. In the editor you have to browse for it all over again to get to its properties.

Thank you for the post. Unfortunately, the toolbars in the Editor are fully automated as of this moment. You cannot control the captions or lock / freeze the state of some tools.
We know about this issue and some overhaul of the toolbars might appear in future. Sadly, I cannot say when because our 'to do' list is quite packed with other stuff at the moment.

thanks for the info. No problem, this is just a small niggle, far from being a show-stopper or anything like that. It's just that I was not sure whether I might be missing out on something, so I first contacted support by mail, learned about the automated size/ caption - but then later I came upon this thread.

And actually, it does offer some work-arounds, such as putting a toolbar on the same line with the menu bar, to exempt it from being treated by the automation feature. And I also found - or believe to have found - some ways to keep the captions untouched, so again - no problem.