Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.

Times and dates in your local timezone.

Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.

So in the absence of more rumors, I thought it might be a worthy discussion to wishlist... I mean, speculate, on various armies line troops in 8th edition using the updated Necromunda.. I mean, Shadow War Armageddon, rules and the other leaks we've seen trickling in.

I'll take, for example, a Blood Angels Tactical Marine squad as mine.

Points (guesswork here): ~70 points for 5x models, 1x Sergeant & 4x marines. Up to 5 more marine models can be added to the squad at 14 points per model.

Blood Angels Space Marines Special Rules: And They Shall Know No Fear: (However GW makes it work in the new rules/edition.) Red Thirst: When charging into melee combat, add +1 to the S characteristic of all Blood Angels models in the unit.

Wargear listing options, special or heavy weapon list for one model unless the squad is 10 models strong then one may have a special and one may have a heavy, etc.

The rest of the entry would be for the Sergeant/Veteran Sergeant with +1 attack and leadership value stats listed. Then, whatever other options/wargear lists, hand to hand, pistol, and ranged weapons are available to the character as options.

That's my thought process on at least one entry. I suspect most loyalist marine troops squad entries will look mostly similar with chapter tactics adding the odd special rule to the squad depending on the chapter in question.

More to come later. Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/09 05:52:05

You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.

2017/04/09 05:59:03

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

I suspect that Assault//open topped vehicles will allow for charges without penalty and normal non assault vehicle models will allow for charges but models charging the same turn they disembark will get no charging bonus attack or have some kind of penalty on them.

Just my speculation on that.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

You don't know me son, so I'll explain this to you once: If I ever kill you, you'll be awake, you'll be facing me, and you'll be armed.

2017/04/09 09:09:12

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Well, I've had this idea in my head for a while (ever since I re-watched star wars episode 1, drunk. Again.) And thought about how the droid army marched into battle, and that's how I imagined Necrons marching to war.

So, for 8th edition I wouldn't mind seeing this:

Necron Warrior Squad - 150pts
10 warriors armed with Gauss flayers. Up to 10 extra warriors can be added to the squad for 15pts each.

M - 3"
WS - 4
BS - 4
S - 4
T - 4
I - 2
W - 1
Ld - 10

Special Rules:

Reanimation Protocols - unchanged from 7th edition.

Immortal Slaves - Necron warriors have no other will than that what their lord commands, let alone emotion. Warriors are immune to all forms of negative leadership modifiers, but are NOT fearless and make leadership tests where and when required.

Inorganic - No longer are Necrons creatures of flesh and blood, but of metal and circuitry. The special rules of Fleshbane and Shred ignored. Additionally, the special rules for Poisoned are ignored entirely.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/09 09:22:18

374th Mechanized 195pts

2017/04/09 09:39:52

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

I don't Necrons should ignore poison, take astartes hellfire rounds for example, they're described as being a very strong acid and I believe are specifically mentioned as being effective against Necrons.

But is anyone else concerned that having movements of less than 6'' is going to slow down gameplay more and make foot slogging even more pointless?
Especially if jump infantry is only x2 movement or something, 8'' move assault marines is awful.

I think assaulting from non-assault vehicles being disorganised would be good though, it would mitigate the 'Rhino rush' of the past and yet give assault armies without assault vehicles a chance.
What a Blood Angel wouldn't do for a Landspeeder Storm atmlol.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/09 09:41:02

2017/04/09 09:57:43

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

I suspect that Assault//open topped vehicles will allow for charges without penalty and normal non assault vehicle models will allow for charges but models charging the same turn they disembark will get no charging bonus attack or have some kind of penalty on them.

Just my speculation on that.

Take it easy.

-Red__Thirst-

You might be right but a disordered charge out of a Rhino is still a big step up from disembark, shoot - hope the unit doesn't get blown away, move, shoot/run then attack.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.

2017/04/09 10:33:04

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Inorganic - No longer are Necrons creatures of flesh and blood, but of metal and circuitry. The special rules of Fleshbane and Shred ignored. Additionally, the special rules for Poisoned are ignored entirely.

And in the process making it completely impossible for Dark Eldar to be played against Necrons, so hell no.

2017/04/09 11:10:19

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

The Deer Hunter wrote:A lot of BA players see their army as an assault one, but this codex is not designed for assault

We are an assault army.
Because if we're not assaulting, we're Marines-1.
Maybe not as assault focused as 'Nids or Orks but we're an assault army none the less.

Nids or Orks? Blood Angels aren't as assault focused as most Space Marines, they've been truly left behind. Troop choice Scouts and Tacticals with access to Jump Packs would probably be a good start, a unique Open Topped Rhino that can carry Jump Marines would be a close second.

I dig the idea of something like the TMNT party wagon launcher from the 90s cartoon.
Youtube the opening theme to see it.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/09 11:11:23

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.

2017/04/09 11:38:24

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

The Deer Hunter wrote:A lot of BA players see their army as an assault one, but this codex is not designed for assault

We are an assault army.
Because if we're not assaulting, we're Marines-1.
Maybe not as assault focused as 'Nids or Orks but we're an assault army none the less.

Nids or Orks? Blood Angels aren't as assault focused as most Space Marines, they've been truly left behind. Troop choice Scouts and Tacticals with access to Jump Packs would probably be a good start, a unique Open Topped Rhino that can carry Jump Marines would be a close second.

I dig the idea of something like the TMNT party wagon launcher from the 90s cartoon.
Youtube the opening theme to see it.

Just because we're a bad assault army doesn't mean we're not an assault army ;P
If Landraiders ceased to suck, our troops getting them as dedicated transports again would be cool as beans. Maybe getting an assault-flyer, like a mini Cassius Assault Ram (or whatever it's called).
Make this a reality.

2017/04/09 11:54:10

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

The Deer Hunter wrote:A lot of BA players see their army as an assault one, but this codex is not designed for assault

We are an assault army.
Because if we're not assaulting, we're Marines-1.
Maybe not as assault focused as 'Nids or Orks but we're an assault army none the less.

Nids or Orks? Blood Angels aren't as assault focused as most Space Marines, they've been truly left behind. Troop choice Scouts and Tacticals with access to Jump Packs would probably be a good start, a unique Open Topped Rhino that can carry Jump Marines would be a close second.

I dig the idea of something like the TMNT party wagon launcher from the 90s cartoon.
Youtube the opening theme to see it.

Just because we're a bad assault army doesn't mean we're not an assault army ;P
If Landraiders ceased to suck, our troops getting them as dedicated transports again would be cool as beans. Maybe getting an assault-flyer, like a mini Cassius Assault Ram (or whatever it's called).
Make this a reality.

Yeah...it kind of does, like a flyer thar can't get airborne.

Anyway, I think Land Raiders have had their day - especially if the rumours about assaulting out of any vehicles in 8th ed proves true, even if it's effectively a disordered charge.
Still, I'd like to see them on the field outside the Ironwolves formation.

I don't break the rules but I'll bend them as far as they'll go.

2017/04/09 13:22:11

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

The Deer Hunter wrote:A lot of BA players see their army as an assault one, but this codex is not designed for assault

We are an assault army.
Because if we're not assaulting, we're Marines-1.
Maybe not as assault focused as 'Nids or Orks but we're an assault army none the less.

An assault army without any rules to assault !!

Something special for Assault Squads, or Vanguard, maybe Tactical marines with chainsword and boltpistol. Nothing.

Furious charge and Red Thirst are not enough, BA decurion is ludicrous, every other army get a bonus, BA to get a bonus must have a drawback too. Wanna assault after deep striking? Disordered charge. Take your decurion to get your special rule, Zealot? Well, only after half your unit dies.

There's no hope...

2017/04/09 13:38:42

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Freddy Kruger wrote:Well, I've had this idea in my head for a while (ever since I re-watched star wars episode 1, drunk. Again.) And thought about how the droid army marched into battle, and that's how I imagined Necrons marching to war.

So, for 8th edition I wouldn't mind seeing this:

Necron Warrior Squad - 150pts
10 warriors armed with Gauss flayers. Up to 10 extra warriors can be added to the squad for 15pts each.

M - 3"
WS - 4
BS - 4
S - 4
T - 4
I - 2
W - 1
Ld - 10

Special Rules:

Reanimation Protocols - unchanged from 7th edition.

Immortal Slaves - Necron warriors have no other will than that what their lord commands, let alone emotion. Warriors are immune to all forms of negative leadership modifiers, but are NOT fearless and make leadership tests where and when required.

Inorganic - No longer are Necrons creatures of flesh and blood, but of metal and circuitry. The special rules of Fleshbane and Shred ignored. Additionally, the special rules for Poisoned are ignored entirely.

so basically I want a power boost for my unit / Army.

Necrons are not (currently) Robots - they are people who were made into mechanical creatures that resemble robots.

If you want pure killing machines that march forward relentlessly add in:

Implacable: Each turn, each Necron unit must move its full movement towards the nearest enemy unit. You also want to put in something about them being particuarily effected by EMP type effects

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction

2017/04/09 13:53:28

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

I'm hoping Marines go back up to 300 points a squad. where they should be.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html

2017/04/09 14:24:49

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

warhead01 wrote:I'm hoping Marines go back up to 300 points a squad. where they should be.

So you just don't want to see marines at all do you.

It's not really that. I mostly want to see the points per model go away for block points per 5 or per 10. I'm a little tired of the way it is now.
I played with 300 point Tack squads, it was rough. And not the best use of points but things were different then.
I'd be ok with 100 points for 5 Marines.
But anything is possible in new edition.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html

2017/04/09 15:27:07

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

warhead01 wrote:I'm hoping Marines go back up to 300 points a squad. where they should be.

So you just don't want to see marines at all do you.

It's not really that. I mostly want to see the points per model go away for block points per 5 or per 10. I'm a little tired of the way it is now.
I played with 300 point Tack squads, it was rough. And not the best use of points but things were different then.
I'd be ok with 100 points for 5 Marines.
But anything is possible in new edition.

Standard marines have no business being 20ppm. Thats GK Stike Squad prices, and a Tac Marine has neither the wargear, nor special rules to warrant such a cost.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2017/04/09 15:36:03

Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.

2017/04/09 15:32:36

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Standard marines have no business being 20ppm. Thats GK Interceptor prices, and a Tac Marine has neither the wargear, nor special rules to warrent such a cost.

I don't agree, those other unit prices should probably go up as well.

"Pathetic earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void, without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe, anything at all, you would've hidden from it in terror."
My blog http://warhead01.blogspot.com/2014/02/the-art-of-ork.html

2017/04/09 15:35:22

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

They should also be given stat boosts. It doesn't make sense that an Imperial Guard veteran can shoot as well as a marine.

I swear I'm not a paid shill for Anvil Industry. I’d be willing if they wanted to pay me.

"That's Warhammer 40,000 where instead of using Victory Points to determine the victor you roll a D6 and compare receipts. Highest total receipts wins. I'm not sure what the D6 is for." - Abadabadoobaddon, on Reciepthammer 40k

"Actually if the PC/console games have thought us anything most of the noise from bolter fire is the firer yelling for the emperor every shot." - Joyboozer, on silenced bolters.

"It's better to just roll a D6 and discount anything I say on a 3+" - NivlacSupreme, on himself and his sanity.

2017/04/09 15:45:01

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Standard marines have no business being 20ppm. Thats GK Interceptor prices, and a Tac Marine has neither the wargear, nor special rules to warrent such a cost.

I don't agree, those other unit prices should probably go up as well.

So ZeboLizard was right - you just don't want to see Marines at all. If we were paying tbose prices for Tac Marines, or i was paying 30ppm for a Strike Squad, I would simply shelf my GK, and marine players would shelve their armies. I already never see a standard Tac squad anymore, most marine players I know take Scout Squads to fill their troop slots. There would be even less reason to field them, and if Tac Marines are 20ppm, what would Vanguard Vets be..? 35? 40? Terminators at 50ppm? Bikes too?

Anything is possible when staring down the barrel of a new edition, but I'd bet my extensive army collections that we're not going to see price increases anywhere near that extreme. GW may have started turning things around in the last year or so, but they still want our money. And raising Marines to 20ppm (and by proxy, all other options in their 'dex) is a sure way to get people to -not- buy them.

Sometimes, the only truth people understand, comes from the barrel of a gun.

2017/04/09 15:45:15

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Furious charge and Red Thirst are not enough, BA decurion is ludicrous, every other army get a bonus, BA to get a bonus must have a drawback too. Wanna assault after deep striking? Disordered charge. Take your decurion to get your special rule, Zealot? Well, only after half your unit dies.

Dark eldar don't even have a decurion.... orks' one? Only one real bonus, fearless. Unfortunately you have to include over 500 points of taxes between the warband and the council. SW one? There are a couple of nice combos, like the blackmanes or the ironwolves, but only a few people use the decurion, as other options are more efficient.

Orks 9000
Space Wolves 5500
Drukhari 4700

2017/04/09 17:12:16

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Furious charge and Red Thirst are not enough, BA decurion is ludicrous, every other army get a bonus, BA to get a bonus must have a drawback too. Wanna assault after deep striking? Disordered charge. Take your decurion to get your special rule, Zealot? Well, only after half your unit dies.

Dark eldar don't even have a decurion.... orks' one? Only one real bonus, fearless. Unfortunately you have to include over 500 points of taxes between the warband and the council. SW one? There are a couple of nice combos, like the blackmanes or the ironwolves, but only a few people use the decurion, as other options are more efficient.

Since other decurion are worst, thats not a reason cause BA one should be a mess. SW decurion is good, if its not played cause there are better options, none the less it is good. I'd change it with the BA one

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/09 17:19:07

2017/04/09 17:26:58

Subject: Re:Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

If they do end up making vehicles play the same as monstrous creatures I could see them giving certain units some sort of "machine" special rule that makes them immune to poison but vulnerable to haywire. I could see Necrons getting that rule.

Something would have to be done about DE weapons, though, or they would have a really tough time against Necrons.

They do want to sell models, but my understanding is that they reduced the size of armies when going from WHFB to AoS partly because it cost so much to start playing WHFB. I could see them giving raising the points of Space Marines but also giving them buffs to make up for it. Like, maybe they get two wounds and a 2+ armor save?

YELL REAL LOUD AN' CARRY A BIG CHOPPA!

2017/04/09 19:46:10

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Furious charge and Red Thirst are not enough, BA decurion is ludicrous, every other army get a bonus, BA to get a bonus must have a drawback too. Wanna assault after deep striking? Disordered charge. Take your decurion to get your special rule, Zealot? Well, only after half your unit dies.

Dark eldar don't even have a decurion.... orks' one? Only one real bonus, fearless. Unfortunately you have to include over 500 points of taxes between the warband and the council. SW one? There are a couple of nice combos, like the blackmanes or the ironwolves, but only a few people use the decurion, as other options are more efficient.

Since other decurion are worst, thats not a reason cause BA one should be a mess. SW decurion is good, if its not played cause there are better options, none the less it is good. I'd change it with the BA one

The thing is we'd have to move to a much broader system so that you could represent super good humans without infringing on marines.

I swear I'm not a paid shill for Anvil Industry. I’d be willing if they wanted to pay me.

"That's Warhammer 40,000 where instead of using Victory Points to determine the victor you roll a D6 and compare receipts. Highest total receipts wins. I'm not sure what the D6 is for." - Abadabadoobaddon, on Reciepthammer 40k

"Actually if the PC/console games have thought us anything most of the noise from bolter fire is the firer yelling for the emperor every shot." - Joyboozer, on silenced bolters.

"It's better to just roll a D6 and discount anything I say on a 3+" - NivlacSupreme, on himself and his sanity.

2017/04/09 21:56:45

Subject: Discussion on Troops in 8th Edition, what do we expect to see?

Furious charge and Red Thirst are not enough, BA decurion is ludicrous, every other army get a bonus, BA to get a bonus must have a drawback too. Wanna assault after deep striking? Disordered charge. Take your decurion to get your special rule, Zealot? Well, only after half your unit dies.

Dark eldar don't even have a decurion.... orks' one? Only one real bonus, fearless. Unfortunately you have to include over 500 points of taxes between the warband and the council. SW one? There are a couple of nice combos, like the blackmanes or the ironwolves, but only a few people use the decurion, as other options are more efficient.

Those few players are probably the Space Wolf players who want to prove that their army is better than just components in a Deathstar.

Standard marines have no business being 20ppm. Thats GK Interceptor prices, and a Tac Marine has neither the wargear, nor special rules to warrent such a cost.

I don't agree, those other unit prices should probably go up as well.

I actually agree with Warhead.
From what the guys at my club told me Apocalypse games in 4th edition used to be the same amount of models as current 1850 games.
In order to make sales armies have been points discounted to the point where cheap units like those in Astra Militarum and Ork armies often have have the same cost as much stronger units, if GW actually does do something about it they'll add extra models to the cheap units.
In a lot of ways a complete reset in unit points prices and stats would be a better thing but that would still be a points price rise.
Shifting to a D10 or D20 system would be the best step in my opinion.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2017/04/09 22:43:02