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The only helpful think that I can think of, that hasn't already been stated, is that the new dojo 2nd sounds completely unaware that the kohai of the dojo don't like him, and probably wouldn't continue to attend classes if he were to throw a successful coup. I wonder if his behavior would change if he were made aware of this.

Hear hear.
Suggest making sempai aware that the other students do not admire his behavior and prefer their senseis approach. I have seen this done in a slightly passive aggressive way by having a meeting at which the teacher asked the "target" student to articulate their position, and then other students responded to it. It was effective. You could be more or less direct about doing this. (personally I don:t think I would set them up first, it feels slimy) But I think its up to your sensei. Have the other students told him/her how you feel? could be a good first step.

Hello Chaplain Chay. I am sorry that the feedback from the forum so far has come across as brusque. While the people here tend to have more or less expertise with regard to aikido (and perhaps dojo etiquette), I'm not sure that we mostly have any particular qualification when it comes to troubleshooting a challenging (non-combat) interpersonal problem. If you have a background in pastoral counseling, then you might very well be better qualified than most of us.

My threshold reaction is that the behavior of the Problem Senior Student (PSS) sounds bizarre to me, in the context of college campus culture. Why anybody would think it appropriate to walk in and try to take over a class from an instructor at a university is beyond me. This kind of behavior doesn't seem any more appropriate in an aikido club than it would in an academic classroom. To me, it suggests that the PSS may have a narcissistic personality disorder. That's just a guess, but it's an educated one.

This being said, I think that the first thing to try is to have several of the other students sit down with the teacher and talk with him about what's going on in the class, and their feelings about it. We have been given to understand that the teacher is soft-spoken and prefers to avoid conflict or harming others. He may not fully grasp that his passive response is indirectly hurting the other students, and detracting from their experience. He may also not recognize that the rest of the students are eager to mobilize themselves behind him. In essence, the aim then is to help the good teacher to reinterpret what's happening around him, so that he is energized to engage, redirect, and (if necessary) eject the problem student from the class.

In a different vein, if the class is being run under the auspices of a university club, then the officers of the club may also be in a position to intervene (regardless of whether the PSS has a higher martial arts rank). Participation in university club activities is generally a privilege, rather than a right. Rarely is it helpful to be entirely direct in telling the PSS, "look, nobody likes you or wants to train with you." But there is sometimes a role for the officers of a university club, in respectfully but firmly indicating that the club has rules and expectations, and that open disrespect for the club's teacher is unacceptable and a violation of the terms for belonging to the club.

The latter approach could get lawyerly, assuming the PSS is both dense and has an ego problem. But the idea is to gently nudge him in a positive direction (preferably towards the door), while sidestepping a stubborn or combative response as much as possible.

Hope this is helpful.

Quote:

Anonymous User wrote:

I am astonished at the undertones of mockery. Being an interpersonal issue, I would think there would be a decorum of respectful sensitivity which would be exercised kindly in this matter. I don't train in Aikido or understand it's customs. I don't not speak the nomenclature of Aikido, or understand the Aikido way handles things. It is foreign to me. I was simply doing someone a favor whose command of English is limited.

Reading the comments and my knowledge of my friend's concern, who is kindly asking for help here, has shown to be a mighty mistake. Based on my decades of experience and training as a Chaplain, the assumptions I made here have never been more wrong. Too bad this hasn't been a good productive resource for my friend as she wished. Too bad she has made assumptions. Is this the standard for Aikiweb to have its members mock others when they seek help? I don't get treated similarly on the car forums when I ask for help.

Preface: I don't take the class or otherwise participate in any in Aikido.

I was asked my "burnt out and down" who we will call Suzan, to communicate her dojo's concern with a particular individual whose behavior is not appreciated and upsetting.When Suzan asked me to help communicate her great concern to this forum, I quickly recognized it was troubling her greatly. I sincerely obliged with her request.

I have to work through Suzan's filters to communicate accurately her needs. On my part because I don't know the senior student, or the others besides Suzan, I can't evaluate anyone's personalities, behavior or the situation. I am not willing to give my opinion.

I have communicated the many responses to Suzan. What she will do with the advice is up to her. The out come of Suzan's class is something I will also not know. Unless she talks to me about it.

Doing Suzan a favor there is no need for me to continue to participate here any more, and I will be excusing myself. On the behalf of Suzan, thank you.

Interesting to read through this. A dojo is a business. Period. Like a bar or restaurant. If you were a supportive patron because you liked the place, great. If things got to the point where things changed unfavorably to a noticeable degree - less safe, poor service, rude staff, etc.. - you - as an individual customer - need to make a decision. Someone not running their business according to your expectations is...NOT YOUR BUSINESS. And, again, keep in mind, you are a customer. You are not the owner, not the boss, not the landlord. And if you continue patronizing a place with your time and money and comradery, you are supporting the poor service. You're saying it's OK every time you walk in the door.

This is up to OP as an individual. This is not about getting others together and making a stand. Larger movements have been sparked by a single individual not putting up with the service. Rosa Parks comes to mind.

To the OP, I'd say find another bar. Or just don't go to that bar for awhile. You'd be surprised sometimes at the results and changes in businesses when their regular patrons stop coming through the door. OP, the only person you need to respect is yourself.

Though I think this statement is occasionally useful as a corrective to all the BS and mysticism that swirls around traditional martial arts, never forget that it's in fact quite wrong.

A dojo is a business. A dojo is a community. A dojo is a shrine. A dojo is a school. A dojo is a gym. A dojo is a spiritual development center.

All true, but each different character implies a different set of issues and concerns. Traditional dojos have mostly made the choice not to make the business aspects primary--lots of commercial dojos are demonstrating how to do the business model, and traditional dojos are deciding not to do that.

I see the biggest challenge in the OP's situation is that it's the community which will most likely be destroyed if the situation isn't addressed. It only takes one bad actor to tear apart a working community. And that's a shame.

having read through all of the posts I can only agree that the dojo-cho needs to take charge of the situation.
If they can't (or wont) then the students need to get together and tell this student and the dojo-cho how they feel; otherwise nothing will change.

Communities are businesses. Shrines are businesses. Schools are businesses. Gyms are businesses. Spiritual development centers are businesses.

To varying degrees, though. The business aspect isn't always the dominant force/purpose (thank god); there are situations/groups where the community aspect *should* override the business aspect, and an engagement of things should be looked into.
Matt

The question that came to my mind is why the attempt to usurp the Sensei? Maybe his technique is inferior to the new guy and he knows it, so he tolerates it. The sensei can be a great guy but technically deficient. Without knowing the nature of the "disrespect" it's hard to judge.

Dan how are you defining business? I think you would have a hard time representing a university club as a business model.