Device likely won't be needed but Musk is sending it to Thailand just in case.

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Scuba divers in Thailand have already rescued four of the 12 boys who have been stranded, along with their coach, in a flooded cave. And they are hoping to rescue the rest in the next couple of days. But in the meantime, Elon Musk has continued working on alternative strategies divers could use if conventional diving proves too difficult for the remaining boys.

On Saturday, Musk settled on the idea of building "a tiny, kid-size submarine using the liquid oxygen transfer tube of Falcon rocket as hull." He ordered SpaceX engineers to begin building the device, saying that it could be ready by the end of the day on Saturday.

Musk tweeted that "Buoyancy adjusted by strapping diver weight belts around body of capsule. They’re prevented from sliding off by the 6 diver handhold attachments."

Elon Musk / SpaceX

Divers test the device in a pool in Los Angeles.

Elon Musk / SpaceX

By the time it was finished, Thai officials had already begun their rescue operation without Musk's help, so the technology likely won't be needed. But Musk decided to press forward anyway, tweeting that "even if not useful here, perhaps it will be in a future situation."

On Sunday, he posted photos of the completed device.

"Testing for 3 more hours in LA, then it’s on a plane to Thailand," Musk tweeted late on Sunday morning, California time.

Musk also posted a video of the device being tested in a Los Angeles pool:

Update: The tube is really narrow. Some diagrams online show one passageway narrowing to as little as 38 cm—about 15 inches—at its tightest point. We asked Musk if the cylinder would really fit through such a small space, and he responded on Twitter that the cylinder was 31 cm wide—just over a foot.

That would obviously be too narrow for many adults to squeeze into, but perhaps it's just big enough for the Thai teenagers—especially the younger ones—to get in.

Promoted Comments

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

I am a certified cave diver (both NACD and NSSCDS) and when I was living in a part of the country where a lot of cave diving takes place I was on a recovery team (fortunately I was never involved in any actual recoveries). I would be very leery about trying to use that thing in a cave with restrictions (that's the technical term for "pinch points" ). I certainly wouldn't be on the cave side of it (as opposed to the entrance side - when I was acting as a guide I wouldn't even be on the non-entrence side of fat divers if the system had restrictions). It also looks like it would be very easy for the divers to get seriously injured trying to maneuver it. Especially if, as the media has reported, there are currents in the water - and in low-to-no visibility conditions as has also been reported. It would also be exhausting and dramatically increase the divers' breathing gas use. Without knowing more about the actual circumstances in a given rescue, I can see almost no advantages in trying to use that in a real cave over what the divers are doing now. Both are very, very dangerous but the tube adds the possibility of trapping or injuring divers as well as the rescued person (and everyone else further in the cave).

I don't know from this story but I wonder if any actual cave divers were involved in the development of this thing or if this is another example of the modern tech world not knowing what it doesn't know. Cave diving is not like open water diving and this is a circumstance where the "move fast and break things" approach is one I wouldn't want anything to do with. The people to listen to in this circumstance are not people in the tech community but the actual divers in the water there. There is a reason that so much specialty cave diving equipment is made in north-central Florida and not silicon valley.

I don't question the designers' motives, just how workable a solution this in this case.

Well, as somebody who's used full-face respirators, full-face SCBAs, and SCUBA dives I feel like I'm qualified to give my two cents on why that's worrying.

They leak. They especially leak if you don't have a good chance to get them fitted before hand. Now, they're also easy enough to clear, if you know how and have some presence of mind - and free hands. Again, that all depends on the health and panic level of the kids. If they're alert and aware? No problem, go for it. If they're doped up and duct taped to a spine board? Yeah, that's probably not going to go super well.

Again as most of the sane people in this thread seem to agree, that doesn't necessarily make the tube a good idea, but it explains why it's even being considered.

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

I am a certified cave diver (both NACD and NSSCDS) and when I was living in a part of the country where a lot of cave diving takes place I was on a recovery team (fortunately I was never involved in any actual recoveries). I would be very leery about trying to use that thing in a cave with restrictions (that's the technical term for "pinch points" ). I certainly wouldn't be on the cave side of it (as opposed to the entrance side - when I was acting as a guide I wouldn't even be on the non-entrence side of fat divers if the system had restrictions). It also looks like it would be very easy for the divers to get seriously injured trying to maneuver it. Especially if, as the media has reported, there are currents in the water - and in low-to-no visibility conditions as has also been reported. It would also be exhausting and dramatically increase the divers' breathing gas use. Without knowing more about the actual circumstances in a given rescue, I can see almost no advantages in trying to use that in a real cave over what the divers are doing now. Both are very, very dangerous but the tube adds the possibility of trapping or injuring divers as well as the rescued person (and everyone else further in the cave).

I don't know from this story but I wonder if any actual cave divers were involved in the development of this thing or if this is another example of the modern tech world not knowing what it doesn't know. Cave diving is not like open water diving and this is a circumstance where the "move fast and break things" approach is one I wouldn't want anything to do with. The people to listen to in this circumstance are not people in the tech community but the actual divers in the water there. There is a reason that so much specialty cave diving equipment is made in north-central Florida and not silicon valley.

I don't question the designers' motives, just how workable a solution this in this case.

Under normal circumstances in an international tragedy like this the President of the United States would have offered the full resources of the United States government to find and save the children. Unfortunately, those resources are too busy losing children that he has no interest in saving.

To be fair, we do have personnel there and this isn't an operation where just throwing people at it will fix it. You need the right people there on the ground. I even think the decision to not let them participate in the actual rescue is the right one. It may be a search and rescue team, but I'm doubting military search and rescue divers have a lot of experience cave diving. There is a ton of stuff to fault him on, but I'm not sure this is one of them.

Right, because the US Navy nor the Coast Guard or Marines don't doesn't have much in the way of highly trained divers that could be of use in a situation like this..../s

I guarantee each of those branches has divers with training in situations like this. Wreck diving would qualify as useful training.

You do realize that we have divers there right? No they didn't dispatch every diver in the navy there, but that wasn't needed. They have divers much more experienced in cave diving there already. Not saying they can't or shouldn't help, but that this isn't a situation where you can brute force it with personnel. Aside from that fact the rescue operation seems to be very well managed and they know what they're doing. There's no need for the US to come riding in to "save the day".

Last I read, the totals were about 40 Thai divers and 50 international.

Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones.

I agree with the first part. I do not agree with the second part.

Pretty sure reusable VTVL rockets are successful.

Potentially they are (data is still coming in), but he didn't come up with it.The DC-X, anyway, was just a milestone along a very long journey. One illuminated by genuinely bright mathematicians, scientists and engineers whose contributions are in actual journals.

Do you really have genuine doubt about VTVL orbital class rockets bring useful? No one claims he came up with it, but he was the first to achieve it starting from a time when many seasoned rocket engineers were publicly stating that such an concept would be impossible to implement in real life. It's hard to call it anything but an overwhelming success for Musk even if you don't believe it's profitable for SpaceX yet.

Huh? Re-usable rockets haven't been flying commercially long enough to call it a solved problem. I have no doubt that they could be immensely useful. What Elon brought to the table was capital and a freight train of hype, enough to convince skeptics to go all in. What he did NOT bring to the table was "inspiration to come up with successful ones" - the credit for working designs goes to the engineers and talented individuals whose services he bought.

[SNIP EMBEDDED]Me? I got no problems, man. (Well, none that would interest anyone on this thread.) You're in a tizzy so I offered a cookie. I'll leave you and let you lash out in all directions. The important thing is the rescue of the boys and people are trying to help.

Elon Musk just has the means to make his ideas come true and the inspiration to come up with successful ones.

I agree with the first part. I do not agree with the second part.

Pretty sure reusable VTVL rockets are successful.

Potentially they are (data is still coming in), but he didn't come up with it.The DC-X, anyway, was just a milestone along a very long journey. One illuminated by genuinely bright mathematicians, scientists and engineers whose contributions are in actual journals.

Do you really have genuine doubt about VTVL orbital class rockets bring useful? No one claims he came up with it, but he was the first to achieve it starting from a time when many seasoned rocket engineers were publicly stating that such an concept would be impossible to implement in real life. It's hard to call it anything but an overwhelming success for Musk even if you don't believe it's profitable for SpaceX yet.

Huh? Re-usable rockets haven't been flying commercially long enough to call it a solved problem. I have no doubt that they could be immensely useful. What Elon brought to the table was capital and a freight train of hype, enough to convince skeptics to go all in. What he did NOT bring to the table was "inspiration to come up with successful ones" - the credit for working designs goes to the engineers and talented individuals whose services he bought.

I didn't say it was a solved problem. I said he made the first orbital class VTVL rocket, and that on it's own is a success. You also don't think Elons rather legendary work ethic and personal engineering chops had any influence on this at all? Even if all he provided was hype and capital, it's still a huge success.

I didn't say it was a solved problem. I said he made the first orbital class VTVL rocket, and that on it's own is a success. You also don't think Elons rather legendary work ethic and personal engineering chops had any influence on this at all? Even if all he provided was hype and capital, it's still a huge success.

Though if it wasn't profitable, they probably wouldn't be building a factory to build a rocket that will do it on a much larger scale..

He did interfere with the rescue, he did it by wasting time of the Thai authority and the experts advising them who were flat out telling the Musk people there that the proposed sub would not work for this purpose use. Instead, after being told by his people on the ground that the sub as proposed would likely not work Musk instructed his people to go into discussions with the Thai authority and the experts advising them to use the sub and all they needed was input from them of refining the design, that wasted almost two days of valuable time hounding the Thai authority and the experts advising them and that was interference.

Please provide citations for any of this. You consistently failed to back up these claims with any evidence in the previous thread.

Wow! yet another episode in the saga "Musk, man-god" for the worshipers.

In the other thread I commented how the Musk sub was rejected for use, people of course down voted and claimed it was rejected because it just wasn't ready yet. Well it was ready, a picture of it leaked two days ago. But now you know why it was rejected, the thing would have never made it thru the complete passage used for the rescue and would have been very hard to handle.

You're like a fungus. Why not start spewing your garbage from the other thread about Musk 'interfering' with the rescue. You got voted off the thread, why not try it here?Edit-BuckyBoy the World's Expert On Everything and noted Musk hater has arrived, folks. He's here to dominate the thread. Again

ya can't get voted off a thread, your comments can get down voted. Not all of my comments were down voted until hidden and even then they can still be seen by a simple click plus they appear in others replies anyway.

He did interfere with the rescue, he did it by wasting time of the Thai authority and the experts advising them who were flat out telling the Musk people there that the proposed sub would not work for this purpose use. Instead, after being told by his people on the ground that the sub as proposed would likely not work Musk instructed his people to go into discussions with the Thai authority and the experts advising them to use the sub and all they needed was input from them of refining the design, that wasted almost two days of valuable time hounding the Thai authority and the experts advising them and that was interference.

As I said, completely made up, pulled out your asshole burble. Document this 'hounding' or STFU. You couldn't do it on the other thread and you left. Put up or shut up.

I didn't say it was a solved problem. I said he made the first orbital class VTVL rocket, and that on it's own is a success. You also don't think Elons rather legendary work ethic and personal engineering chops had any influence on this at all? Even if all he provided was hype and capital, it's still a huge success.

I have honestly seen no evidence of his personal engineering chops other than some cringe-worthy tech talks that had me grimacing.

So I'm going with the hype and capital, thanks.

Is that to imply you've seen evidence that he doesn't have any? Watch some interviews with anyone who's worked with him in an engineering capacity. He's lead engineer at both SpaceX and Tesla, do you feel like that's some kind of conspiracy and the whole company is keeping the fact that he doesn't contribute much engineering from shareholders? You suppose that he just got lucky hiring a lot of smart engineers who do all the work for him whom then pretend in interviews that Elon is a really good engineer too?

In any event, he's still a pretty impressive person if all he's done is provide capital and hype and somehow managed to pull off all the successes of SpaceX and Tesla.

This has already been argued to death in the previous thread, but I am extremely happy to see the number of people and organizations who have stepped up to assist--even if not all plans of action are ultimately going to be used. As of my post, four boys have been evacuated from the cave, with more to come.

I hope that things continue to go well enough to not have to use Elon's sub, but I still am grateful to see that not everything that happens is as dreary as world/national news often is!

There's still an age range in the group. The first ones were probably the most able so it might make sense to use something else if the younger ones have difficulty. Or it could start raining.

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

Apparently there is one gap 38cm tall.....not sure how the mini sub could have made it through that.

Thats about 15 inches. You may have bad information there.

I don't think anyone has gotten their measuring tapes out to check exactly. But 15 inches / 40cm sounds about right for this description:

Quote:

A 25-year-old Thai navy Seal, who declined to be named, described one of the most difficult parts of the journey. “The hole is really small, I have to take off my air tank to crawl through it. As I do, I feel the edges of the hole on both my back and chest,” he said.

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

Apparently there is one gap 38cm tall.....not sure how the mini sub could have made it through that.

Thats about 15 inches. You may have bad information there.

I don't think anyone has gotten their measuring tapes out to check exactly. But 15 inches / 40cm sounds about right for this description:

Quote:

A 25-year-old Thai navy Seal, who declined to be named, described one of the most difficult parts of the journey. “The hole is really small, I have to take off my air tank to crawl through it. As I do, I feel the edges of the hole on both my back and chest,” he said.

That is describing the *width* of the 'hole'. The OP said '38cm tall'.

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

Apparently there is one gap 38cm tall.....not sure how the mini sub could have made it through that.

Thats about 15 inches. You may have bad information there.

I don't think anyone has gotten their measuring tapes out to check exactly. But 15 inches / 40cm sounds about right for this description:

Quote:

A 25-year-old Thai navy Seal, who declined to be named, described one of the most difficult parts of the journey. “The hole is really small, I have to take off my air tank to crawl through it. As I do, I feel the edges of the hole on both my back and chest,” he said.

That is describing the *width* of the 'hole'. The OP said '38cm tall'.

Crawling through a hole and its touching his back and chest. Sounds like the height to me! Anyway its irrelivant as a tube isnt going to fit. Musk sounds like he’s watched too many thunderbirds episodes. He should leave this for the experts which isnt him and his team.

This thing will work perfectly, though, in the kiddie-size version of the hyperloop.

It’s thrilling to see they’ve gotten some kids out safely so far. I bet the coach will be the toughest case.

I'm not sure the pinch point would have an issue with the length, and I'm sure they engineered it so the circumference fit through. Though I would have concerns with a rigid long tube navigating in a tight cave. However I'd also have to assume he's gotten the clearance dimensions he needs from a team on the ground.

If they can get it in, they should be able to get it out. But as anyone who's moved out of an upper floor apartment can tell you, even then it's not guaranteed.

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

I'll take the 'and moderately doped' thanks.

Heck even if you weren't on anti anxiety meds, but were tired and hungry the tube might be the preferable option

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

I'll take the 'and moderately doped' thanks.

I'd need a fistful of valium to get into that thing. I could probably free-swim, even under these horrid conditions, with only half a fistful.

I also wonder what it's like when dipping through the flooded sections. At some point, you're gonna be severely head-down. Seems a little hard on the neck.

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

I'll take the 'and moderately doped' thanks.

Heck even if you weren't on anti anxiety meds, but were tired and hungry the tube might be the preferable option

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

I'll take the 'and moderately doped' thanks.

Heck even if you weren't on anti anxiety meds, but were tired and hungry the tube might be the preferable option

Not for me.

So you would rather risk passing out from exhaustion on the swim? Note passing out is a death sentence here

I am very surprised that teaching the boys how to dive was the chosen method. I have never dived and have only been caving once (if I may call that time caving); thus I had to rely on the previous articles' comments for my information, which made this option sound very grim. I am still praying to Christ for the success of any chosen method(s).

Under normal circumstances in an international tragedy like this the President of the United States would have offered the full resources of the United States government to find and save the children. Unfortunately, those resources are too busy losing children that he has no interest in saving.

We are all hypocrites. Me and you and all normal people want these kids to be saved. All media have made this story a worldwide event and if kids will be saved we will sleep well at night believing that humanity as one did its duty. But what about these children on the following article? We just pretend we don't see that. Hypocrisy at the max level.

Doing the right thing only sometimes is not hypocrisy, it is flakiness. Doing the wrong thing while telling others to the right thing is hypocrisy.

No one is perfect. We should all be doing the right things more and more. Doing so requires practice, it starts by doing the right thing when it is obvious what is the right thing to do. Hoping for these boys' safety is the right thing to do.

Faced with the prospect of having to learn scuba technique for a very difficult passage in a couple of days, and being stuffed and sealed into that thing...I feel I could devote myself intensively to learning scuba.

I understand the sentiment, but if you were malnourished, sick, and moderately doped on anti-anxiety meds, the tube might be a better choice.

I'll take the 'and moderately doped' thanks.

Heck even if you weren't on anti anxiety meds, but were tired and hungry the tube might be the preferable option

Not for me.

So you would rather risk passing out from exhaustion on the swim? Note passing out is a death sentence here

I know my limitations. Got a beef with that? If I freaked out-which is likely in that thing- I would endanger everyone.