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Topic: You are not allowed to kiss him... Or go to hell! (Read 9440 times)

This story was never known to Tentmaker's communty. Actually, my life changed much while I got my girlfriend and she's the person I'm going to marry some day ... The problem is that we are watched into her church as we have sinned deeply...

Her father says: You mustn't kiss him! You are not allowed to... My daughter is not supposed to be in hell! She is not going to hell... But you have sinned..

So it's a tricky situation as you see...I NEVER believed that a single kiss will send us to hell... I just never believed it... But anyway, we are not supposed to kiss each others, right? Or we are the damned ones...

Kept

Where is the scripture stating you can go to hell for kissing?I tell you, its really amazing to me how people weild fear with the word hell over others to control them.

BT I sincerely hope you seek God very seriously about ur because if you are truly in love and considering marraige, sounds like you would be marrying into a family that will make life 'hell on earth' if you believed something so different than what they believe. I would just be willing to bet they would think you believing in ur , if it came to that, would also be reason for going to hell.

kept

« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 05:46:26 AM by Kept »

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phidelis07

I have never heard of kissing as being a sin, but I know of people who refrain from such activities because they feel if they kiss their GF or BF they might be tempted to go further and possibly sin through pre-marital sex. I hope you yourself don't feel condemned if you do want to kiss, and or kiss your GF. It is a way to show love, and love is a gift from God

We won't go further... We are kissing each others for several months... The real problem is that we look in the eyes of others like sinners ... and everybody knows what happens to sinners... They just go to hell burning forever and ever. and we have been warned.

shibboleth

Well, I may be the lone wolf here, but I did a lot more than kissing before I got married I truly wish I had done things differently, but, I just have to know I am loved in my Father's eyes.

Any physical contact with another can lead to sex, so maybe your family is wanting to protect you? Although, threatening people with hell to "keep them in line" is a terrible way to do it, there motives may be to protect you. But, if they told you of all the bad consequences that happen to young men and women who have sex before marriage, that might be helpful. But hellfire does not keep the passions of youth from expressing themselves. Only love can do that.

Luke 7:37 When a woman who had lived a sinful life in that town learned that Jesus was eating at the Pharisee's house, she brought an alabaster jar of perfume, 38 and as she stood behind him at his feet weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears. Then she wiped them with her hair, kissed them and poured perfume on them.

39 When the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, "If this man were a prophet, he would know who is touching him and what kind of woman she is--that she is a sinner."

...

44 Then he turned toward the woman and said to Simon, "Do you see this woman? I came into your house. You did not give me any water for my feet, but she wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. 45 You did not give me a kiss, but this woman, from the time I entered, has not stopped kissing my feet.

46 You did not put oil on my head, but she has poured perfume on my feet. 47 Therefore, I tell you, her many sins have been forgiven--for she loved much. But he who has been forgiven little loves little." 48 Then Jesus said to her, "Your sins are forgiven." 49 The other guests began to say among themselves, "Who is this who even forgives sins?" 50 Jesus said to the woman, "Your faith has saved you; go in peace."

Jesus never rebuked the sinful woman for kissing him........but rather the rebuke was against the disciples and those pious religious folks for not honor him.

B_T, you give your girlfriend all the kisses she wants and deserves.....and I would find some place else to fellowship too.

Peace, AJ

« Last Edit: August 10, 2007, 07:58:32 PM by AJ »

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"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

julzabro2

This story was never known to Tentmaker's communty. Actually, my life changed much while I got my girlfriend and she's the person I'm going to marry some day ... The problem is that we are watched into her church as we have sinned deeply...

Her father says: You mustn't kiss him! You are not allowed to... My daughter is not supposed to be in hell! She is not going to hell... But you have sinned..

So it's a tricky situation as you see...I NEVER believed that a single kiss will send us to hell... I just never believed it... But anyway, we are not supposed to kiss each others, right? Or we are the damned ones...

There is nothing biblical that bans a kiss along with the slew of other supposed sins that many have misconstrued. Don't be afraid of the judgment of men...no man can make or break your salvation...unless His name is Jesus Christ!

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arcticmonster2003

I'd say the lines get blurry here, firstly due to modern views on life. For instance, I can only assume that people in biblical times would spend time together before they got married, but here is where the deviation begins, there are no references to the state of Girlfriend and Boyfriend in these times. There was the state of getting engaged, and getting married. That said this leaves us in limbo on the "friend" issue. Their are also some different ideas of sex in these days as the following verse mentions

Judges 16:1 Then went Samson to Gaza, and saw there an harlot, and went in unto her.

now here in judges we see that Samson not only took a harlot, but it also somehow got recorded forever in the holy bible. But we do also notice that this was during the time when Samson (who was given unto God) did not lose his strength because of this as some today would tell him of course if he did this that all of his strength from God would be taken away! It would also seem that he had sex with Delilah. And it would also seem that ultimately he did lose his strength because of love of women, yet was in no way rejected by God.

Here is the problem I see today though:

First, that the idea of "friends" hardly ever remains in this category, but this leaves us with the dilimma of actually choosing who we might marry. Let grace abound in this issue.

Second, that we see unusually long periods of "friends", this can often time be attributed to the mere fact that society has taught every women that she should be receiving a ring that is supposed to cost 1-6 months of the boyfriends salary (yes, he is expected to go into debt). I can tell you this is an issue because I have faced it personally faced it, and lets face it, it is hard in today's system to save money, so you either go into debt, or you will actually wait much, much, much longer if you "save up" for it. Also worth mentioning that young men have to establish a credit history to even get a loan, and I will say, myself included, never needed any credit before I was supporting another person, and I was supporting her the second I met her because her mom (different issue) got mad at her for not giving her the paycheck she was getting and kicked her out of the house. Again this does not apply to everyone, but is a factor here. I assure you that 99 percent of women will feel "cheated" if this tradition is not followed.

Thirdly, my fiancee (whom I call my wife, because I have already decided she is my wife, and we have a son together, and we actually are more man and wife than many who have gone throught the current tradition of marriage, and I myself have told her on more than one occasion that I will get married tomorrow in a court or in a church or whereever) anyway, that put aside, my fiancee, who watches on TV these weddings that cost like $100,000 all the way up to more than $500,000, which are weddings of rich people, these are where she has got the idea of how our wedding is "supposed to be like". I assure you I would have no problem with this, except for this one fact, that it is also "american tradition" that the girls parents pay for the wedding. She was raised by a single mother and doesn't even know who her father is, and in no way can possibly support any wedding, much less this "vision" my fiancee has. Anyway, this leaves all wedding expenses to us. She has been planning this "huge" wedding for more that a year now. Meanwhile, I have been planning on just how big of a loan is going to need to be taken to actually achieve this wedding feat that is in her head. This might be similiar to where Jacob actually had to give himself into a type of indentured servitude just to get the wife he wanted. But in my case it is not her father who is putting me into servitude, it is modern tradition.Anyway, I assure you, she will have the wedding that she wants, I will be in debt (saying I, because she doesn't even seem to grasp the fundamentals of how hard it is to earn these vast quantities of money). She is looking forward to this day like no other, and I as well, but the difference is, I am going to be paying off this wedding with the sweat of my brow for years to come and would be just as happy with a very small wedding.Oh, and I almost forgot to mention, since she is not christian, and even repels a bit when Jesus is mentioned, we can't even have this wedding in a church, yes, that is right, in a church that is actually set up to do weddings, this means we have to create our own environment which to me just means more money.

Ok, Ok I know that I seem to be rambling on a bit, but this just doesn't seem like the same simple marriage that Abraham probably had!

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arcticmonster2003

Nor the same simple marriage of Abraham that God approved of. And I would say that if Solomon indeed had to go through this routine every time he would not have had seven hundred wives, and three hundred concubines.

Please have grace on young men of this age!

P.S. And I have also considered, since she has had no father, neither have her 3 sisters (none know who their father is)that God have decided to be their father, for all of them seem to have the hand of God on them and their children.

Psalms 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

What must transpire before a couple can be married,... what are the Biblical essentials that will lead them into the covenant of marriage before God.There seems to be no chapter and verse in the Bible for God's universal law of marriage.

It is my opinion " that there are only (2) things that are necessary / required Biblical, of a man and woman for marriage.

#1 - You have to make vows (a covenant) before God to be faithful and love another person unconditionally, the rest of your lives.

The Bible refers to marriage as a covenant:

Malachi 2:14 - "You ask, 'Why?' It is because the LORD is acting as the witness between you and the wife of your youth, because you have broken faith with her, though she is your partner, the wife of your marriage covenant."

A covenant has a legal attachment, whether spiritual or natural -- with a covenant, we receive blessings from God, but if we break that covenant, we will not see the full blessings of it.

Secondly:A Chaplain friend of mine, inquired of the Lord about what constitutes a marriage.After sometime in prayer, he felt he received the following verse " that which is also necessary to fulfill a marriage contract.

2Cor 13:1 - "In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word(covenant) be established.

#2 - Therefore, I am convinced that when a man and a woman are willing make their marriage vows, before 2 or 3 witnesses " they instantly are married before God.

The wedding vows are the most important part of any wedding. They should state the terms of the commitment between the husband and the wife. The precise wording may vary, but vows should include the idea of staying faithful to one another, regardless of circumstances, until death brings separation.

The Bible is clear that in order to be married to a woman, a man must: 1) leave his parents.2) cleave to his wife and they would be one flesh.

1) Leaving: I think this means that he makes and considers his wife his next of kin - the closest relationship, before his birth family. 2) Cleaving: I think this means a lot more than having sex once, or even a number of times, though that is definitely part of it.

Also, I do not believe that "sexual relations alone = marriage".

Only when a man and woman vow themselves together as husband and wife (in whatever sincere manner) with at least (2) witness, they become 'married'.

Are the "conventional" marriage vows most of us have heard, recited, and are familiar with actually appear in scripture? I have searched and have not found them.

Peace, AJ

« Last Edit: August 16, 2007, 06:10:46 PM by AJ »

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"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Care to explain more of your thoughts on - what the Biblical essentials of marriage might be.

I also feel my two points would hold true whether a couple are a believer in God or not.I am here to learn.

Thanks, peace AJ.

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"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

arcticmonster2003

I'm not sure what you mean by that, marriage is just what it is. A commitment for life to another person, or in Solomon's case to several hundred women. I am curious though how people today feel about Solomon's marriage practices. Christians would probably tell him he is hellbound for sure! After all they apparently some even think a kiss will send to hell!!

Really though, all I am saying is that christians need to make a distinction between what is right in God's eyes and what is living up to current society standards and traditions, especially if they are trying to use these traditions to judge people as not living up to God's ways. But we should remember that if we go too far from what God wants us to do in today's world, then there are plenty of laws that will send you to jail for doing them. Also their are plenty of diseases for those who are sexually immoral.

julzabro2

I'm not saying that marriage as we think of it is NOT talked about biblically, but there is also a deeper, spiritual marriage between God and His church/the Body.

Is 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.

Is 62:5 For as a young man marries a virgin, So shall your sons marry you; And as the bridegroom rejoices over the bride, Soshall your God rejoice over you.

Jer 7:34 Then I will cause to cease from the cities of Judah and from the streets of Jerusalem the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride. For the land shall be desolate.

Jer 10:10 Moreover I will take from them the voice of mirth and the voice of gladness, the voice of the bridegroom and the voice of the bride, the sound of the millstones and the light of the lamp.

Matt 9:15 And Jesus said to them, "Can the friends of the bridegroom mourn as long as the bridegroom is with them? But the days will come when the bridegroom will be taken away from them, and then they will fast.

Matt 25:1 "Then the kingdom of heaven shall be likened to ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. 2 Now five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 Those who were foolish took their lamps and took no oil with them, 4 but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 But while the bridegroom was delayed, they all slumbered and slept. 6 "And at midnight a cry was heard: 'Behold, the bridegroom is coming; go out to meet him!' 7 Then all those virgins arose and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said to the wise, 'Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.' 9 But the wise answered, saying, 'No, lest there should not be enough for us and you; but go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.' 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding; and the door was shut. 11 "Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, 'Lord, Lord, open to us!' 12 But he answered and said, 'Assuredly, I say to you, I do not know you.' 13 "Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

John 3:27 John answered and said, "A man can receive nothing unless it has been given to him from heaven. 28 You yourselves bear me witness, that I said, 'I am not the Christ,' but, 'I have been sent before Him.' 29 He who has the bride is the bridegroom; but the friend of the bridegroom, who stands and hears him, rejoices greatly because of the bridegroom's voice. Therefore this joy of mine is fulfilled.

Rev 21: 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband....9 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife."

arcticmonster2003

Yes their is the other marriage that is written about. Just to clarify, I was writing about a marriage between a man and a woman, here on earth and in the flesh.

Again, I don't want to make a big deal of this, I just want to distinguish what is right in Gods eyes, and what society and tradition would have us believe is right in Gods eyes. Marriage is certainly sanctified and I don't want to downplay this in any way, but the sanctified marriage that I am talking about does not conform to modern standards but rather to what is pleasing in Gods eyes.

julzabro2

Yes their is the other marriage that is written about. Just to clarify, I was writing about a marriage between a man and a woman, here on earth and in the flesh.

Again, I don't want to make a big deal of this, I just want to distinguish what is right in Gods eyes, and what society and tradition would have us believe is right in Gods eyes. Marriage is certainly sanctified and I don't want to downplay this in any way, but the sanctified marriage that I am talking about does not conform to modern standards but rather to what is pleasing in Gods eyes.

Well, I wasn't trying to make a big deal out of anything. I was just pointing out that marriage means more...imo...to God than the institution we've created and all the rituals around it. My point was and still is that it doesn't matter what we do as long as we do it in love. Anything done in love IS right in God's eyes.

Fang_Diachi

This story was never known to Tentmaker's communty. Actually, my life changed much while I got my girlfriend and she's the person I'm going to marry some day ... The problem is that we are watched into her church as we have sinned deeply...

Her father says: You mustn't kiss him! You are not allowed to... My daughter is not supposed to be in hell! She is not going to hell... But you have sinned..

So it's a tricky situation as you see...I NEVER believed that a single kiss will send us to hell... I just never believed it... But anyway, we are not supposed to kiss each others, right? Or we are the damned ones...

In biblical times, the unmarried women were kept separated from the men, never allowed to be alone with them in private. There was no such thing as a "date", to try to determine who you "liked the best". Marriages were arranged, and once arranged, the betrothal was announced and it lasted about a year. Once betrothed they might get to meet, but it was with chaperons. Note that Esther had 6 months of preparation with one thing, then 6 months of another.

Ever notice God arranged a few in there Himself, beginning with Eve? Being able to hear Him is the deciding factor. If you are in covenant and have learned to hear His voice, He is very much capable and able to do the same today. But we are so far removed from those days and that concept that most people would call the guys in the white coats if you even suggested such a thing. Did God change, or did people change? I think people changed.

And further "radical" thought; who REALLY joins man and wife, man or God? If God told you you were joined to someone but you were not married in real life, would it be valid to you, or more valid if you had the ceremony and the paper?

God told me that HE had joined very few people on the face of the earth, because they could not hear His voice. Blessings....

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"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Texas Son

Religious people that wear their eternal damnation on their sleeves are on my last nerves for the day. Ah-well. Time for some tea and to get some shut eye, before I get brutally honest about my feelings about eternal hellers that'll threaten a kiss with being eaten by worms and pitchforks, and having smoke coming out of one's rear end by the Lord forever and ever and ever.

Amen!!

It is amazing how leaders of the church, almost any church, can fall into the pharisee mindset. Instead of instructing men (and women) how to walk in grace and mercy they teach them to walk in condemnation and oppression. Personally I believe this is why God's universal Church does not thrive.

It is a wonderful thing to walk through the necessary struggle of Romans 7, into the glorious revelation or Romans 8:1!!