That argument is generally levelled against people who have consistently failed to understand deeper arguments.

Usually I would suggest reading the light novels. There is a lot of subtext right from the start and Kirino and Kyousuke's relationship clearly progresses.

If you don't want to read them, watch the anime and note the symbolism. Kyousuke is Green Kirino is Pink.

In addition to which the hints about Kyousuke and Kirino's past dropped from the start mean that the ending must revolve around Kirino. Even were another girl to win it would be Kirino's show. But given that Kirino has become a brocon due to Manami's interference, what needed to be resolved was Kirino's love.

Kyousuke decided to resolve that by loving Kirino. Kirnio still rejected the idea when he confessed to her, until he gradually broke down the barriers holding her back and told her that he didn't want anyone else, what society thought didn't mean anything to him and that it was fine for them to actually date.

Thus because of Kyousuke's choice due to having fallen for Kirino somewhere in the course of everything they did together throughout the series, it's an end that sees Kyousuke and Kirino together.

>>101425513
Good work. I'm just waiting for him to pull out the "but they broke up at the end" argument once he catches on.

>>101425732
I'm not that guy, but the questions you pose make it increasingly more clear that you aren't familiar with the series or don't understand it. I'm going to operate on the assumption that you're at least slightly open minded and willing to consider other points of view. The best answer I can give you is:

Read the LNs. Or at least read some of the threads where people have discussed them in depth. I could describe to you the exact developments and events that lead to Kirino and Kyousuke growing closer, but that would be a waste of your and my time when the story itself does a much better job. If you really do want to try and enjoy the series, if you actually care about the answers to the questions you're asking, the best thing for you to do is read the light novels. They're good. Read the thread that was linked a few posts ago. Pay attention to the "recurring themes" that people were talking about. They're important. This is the best I can do for you without working against the point of this discussion. Goodnight.

>>101425732
The light novels have narration that shows Kyousuke looking at his sister in that particular way. He realises that he did all the things he did for his sister because he was a siscon.

I honestly can't make a case for the anime because they messed it up. It looks like he just turned into a siscon come season 2.

I'm not arguing that Kyousuke is logical, but he has reasons for loving Kirino. Manami changed him, Kirino changed him back. She inspired him. See his speech about what he likes about Kirino in Episode 5 Season to for a glimpse of that.

>>101425732>Why? It's still the story of Kyousuke and Kirino regardless of an absence of a romantic plot between them.
That's what Oreimo was about. The story, themes, characters, are built around it. It's not so much "This is canon" but more like "This is what it has always been about".

>WHY? Is this decision someone logical would take?
Maybe? It's not like two siblings that love each other like them or just incest in general doesn't exist in reality. But this is fiction so I don't think it matters to be honest.

Kirino was about to say 'our agreement,' but I raised a hand to stop her. Because the fight between Kirino and Manami had come to an end.

Although I made an exaggerated comparison about this and a final battle, the truth was Manami was not a final boss. The last boss of this story, the enemy that we had to face had never showed itself.

I turned toward it, or them and said:

"I don't care!"

I said that.

"Alright, listen well — you are right, we were wrong. We knew that what we are doing is outrageous. Ethics, common sense, image. Eroge doesn't lack protagonists who would say that they are all so boring and discard them all. I feel that they are pretty cool, and I don't think they are a boring dream. All of them are important ways of thinking. I want to be a normal high schooler, want to continue living happily, thus I also think that there are many rules that have to be followed."

That's why common sense and reputation existed everywhere in this world.

Because all of them were correct. However —

"But I want to break them! Because I have something far more important!"

>>101426259>Read the LNs. Or at least read some of the threads where people have discussed them in depth.
I wouldn't at this moment with this simmering rage in my head every time I'm reminded of the finale in the anime. I have also been thoroughly spoiled. If I could have a chance to just forget about everything Oreimo then I could have taken it.

>>101426375>Kirino changed him back.
I wouldn't call that "changing him back". We can't deny that Manami still contributed to their development.

>>101426445>"This is what it has always been about".
How about what could have been? Well, there's HappyenD, but I don't have the console to play that. And even so, Oreimo HD is not really as canon as the light novels.

>"But I want to break them! Because I have something far more important!"
I would have said "How about your motherfucking relationship as siblings?", but it was already useless at that point.

>>101427004>"How about your motherfucking relationship as siblings?"
I think that would've been incredibly ironic coming from Manami.
Kirino and Kyousuke hadn't had a proper relationship as siblings for a good while.

>>101427004>simmering rage in my head every time I'm reminded of the finale in the anime

I hope you've read this. The anime really did a terrible job with everything. This should help you.

http://pastebin.com/MWLcYrqv

I felt the same thing because I finished before I started reading the LNs. But then I read them and understand the story much, much more and I understand the ending much, much more because it makes sense thematically and fit within the context of the series, and it wasn't what it looks like at all.

>>101427004>How about what could have been? Well, there's HappyenD, but I don't have the console to play that. And even so, Oreimo HD is not really as canon as the light novels.
That would be fanfiction or just not Oreimo at all. Like the other anon said, go read the LNs to understand what I mean. The story was built around this ending.

>>101427346
Pretty much. If you thought it was going to end any other way or with any other girl you were misinterpreting the series from the start. "What could have been" is basically saying "The series could have lived up to what I was expecting it to be about but didn't, and I don't like that" and I'm sorry but if you thought it was going to be different you had it coming. There is no one to blame but yourself for thinking that Oreimo is something that it isn't. It's about Kirino and Kyousuke. From the first paragraph to the last, that's always been the focus.

>>101427481
Ayase kidnapped her, I think that Anon misspoke. That chapter is much more entertaining in the light novels.

>The two girls entered into the car, leaving me as the only person outside.

>The door slammed shut… and I could hear voices coming from inside the car.

>“Alright Kanako~. Let’s take everything off, everything off~~!”

>Ayase strangely seemed to be having fun. In fact, I’ve yet to hear her sound so happy.

>>101427771
Oh Kirino definitely won. She had thought they were going to break up afterwards but the kiss and the specials confirm Kyousuke intends to continue it. He still loves Kirino. I'm betting she still loves him too.

You know what, this show was actually fucking worth something in Season 1. The moment the Yaoi girl was brought in it was ruined, nothing wrong with her as a character but we seriously did not need another girl.

Seriously, I hated Manami and didn't really have much of a problem with Kirino but holy shit, look at Manami's posture - she's got her elbows tucked in Kung-Fu style, that punch had been practiced in front of a mirror for hours.

The only thing central to the ending that involves Kirino being at fault is that she idealized Kyousuke unfairly, and comes to terms with the fact that she was thinking he should be some invincible superhero. This subplot was pretty much cut from the anime though so don't think too hard about it.

Really, everything will just make more sense if you read the light novels. They're really good. They aren't just confusing, there is tons of humor in them you will have missed in the anime and all characters get more time. You will like them. Just start reading them.

Also read the spoiler FAQ in this pastebin. Hop to it Anon. This is what you get for watching a butchered anime adaptation. The anime producers dropped the ball, so fans have to pick up the pieces or else anime viewers will stay confused, and it's not even their fault. I'm sorry.

>>101427990
Kirino was a major source of inspiration for him as a kid, because she'd always praise and support him.

He wasn't a siscon then, but a combination of him being deprived of her and her changing significantly seemed to have resulted in him turning into a siscon as they grew closer again after the cold war.

>>101428072>What? No, that's not what it meant at all. Where are you getting that from?
Instead of keeping her admiration as simply admiration, she overextended that feeling into a form of obsession. And she could just support Kyousuke a hundred times more than Manami if she could instead of being distant to Kyousuke. That's what siblings are, right?

>Really, everything will just make more sense if you read the light novels. They're really good. They aren't just confusing, there is tons of humor in them you will have missed in the anime and all characters get more time. You will like them. Just start reading them.
I'll just end up with an even more dismal mood and possibly some broken computer parts. I'd rather not until I've forgotten the rage.

>>101428336>Instead of keeping her admiration as simply admiration, she overextended that feeling into a form of obsession. And she could just support Kyousuke a hundred times more than Manami if she could instead of being distant to Kyousuke. That's what siblings are, right?

Kirino kept a distance in part because she felt disgusted with herself because of what Manami had told her and because she hated what Kyousuke became. She couldn't support him because of a combination of both.

>So Kirino's the one at fault for interpreting her admiration for Kyousuke as romantic feelings?
We don't know what she interpreted them as, but we do know that Manami pushed onto her the idea that they were disgusting and abnormal.

>>101428336
It was a form of an obsession, Kirino's stubborn like that. It became that way because Manami told her to forget her feelings because they were disgusting, but instead decided to fixate on them. At the time her feelings were just an admiration that would've faded, but she promised herself she wouldn't forget them. Though because of what Manami said, she was too insecure with her feelings to support him in the same way she used to. She thought that if she let on too much Kyousuke would hate her.

There's an alternate timeline story where Manami doesn't meddle with things and Kirino and Kyousuke's relationship ends up normal.

This obsessive love isn't the same love she has for Kyousuke at the end of the series, though. For the cold war and a chunk of season 1 she held the love of her idealization, and that's why she was so impatient with him. As 'normal' Kyousuke did his best for her, she fell in love with him all over again, for who he actually is.

>>101428336>Instead of keeping her admiration as simply admiration, she overextended that feeling into a form of obsession

To a degree, yes. But I don't think that her romantic feelings are so essentially linked to her obsession. Those are two very different things. She is never able to give up her love but in the end she is willing to forget her obsession.

>>101428684>>101428838>>101428924
In which we return to Kirino being the one who made this story possible. Manami just worsened it, but I doubt that she would do anything if Kirino was capable of keeping her admiration in check.

By the way, I remember someone saying that the series is actually a harem centered around Kirino, not Kyousuke. I think I can see it, considering a lot of the girls were more interested in Kirino than Kyousuke.

>>101428838>At the time her feelings were just an admiration that would've faded

This is up for debate, really. It's hard to pin down for sure whether or not her feelings were romantic from the beginning, because Kyousuke inspires her and is kind to her even before all this happens. But the way you are saying it is the most logical. I just mean, it's hard for me to accept any theory on Kirino or even Kyousuke's behavior because some of it is made unclear. There are conclusions you can reach logically but I don't think all of it is certain all the time, that's all. Love is a strange thing, and definitely not something easy to understand. I know for sure that both Kyousuke and Kirino acted in ways I don't entirely understand.

>>101429500>she's a total selfish bitch guys!>kirinobros point out her endorsing kyousuke's relationship>her subsequent support of him in his time of need>her helping kyousuke make up with manami>her helping kyousuke make up with sakurai>her being kind to kyousuke and treating his wounds from ayase even though she is upset he is dating kuroneko

I read, and liked the first novel, but wanted to know when this relationship really starts to be a relationship. Can someone tell me?
And Is this really the greatest love story ever told? Will it warm my heart with sweetness?

>>101429781
They confess to each other in volume 2. They go to a love hotel by volume 3.

But seriously, it's a terrible sibling relationship at first that turns into incestuous relationship. So there's a lot of hate initially and then denial from both sides until they eventually find out that they love each other. You don't see him realize that he loves her until the end of volume 8 and it's the same for her. You'll get to see them go on dates and stuff all throughout the series but they won't be in a relationship until the end.

>>101429781
Be patient. They have a lot to sort out in their relationship. Mending fences is not so easy as kiss and make up, not with the past they have. It's a great love story if you take the time to observe the motivations of the characters and the recurring themes of the series. Also most importantly, I wish someone told me this when I read it, but you can't always trust the narration. Kyousuke will often observe or think things, when in actuality the facts or his actual feelings are the exact opposite. Kyousuke is not honest with himself at all. Pay attention the the events and the character's action, and try not to get hung up on narration. This denial he has in himself will start to unravel as time goes on, and lots of hints are dropped early in the series, so it makes it rewarding to see Kyousuke's feelings grow as he accepts them.

That said, I cried at least 8 times while reading. There will be rough patches and there will be boring parts. Stick with it. Even with the scenes without Kirino, there is always a point to them.

>>101429825
They're both nice girls and very cute, but Kuroneko doesn't deserve happiness until she gets over her own chuunibyou/jakigan/denpa delusions. Moreover, she will be -unable- to. Kirino has enough development to show that she's changed significantly and gotten over a lot of her flaws by the end of the series. Kuroneko still has a ways to go. But of course that's okay because Oreimo isn't about Kuroneko.

>>101430338Thank you for spoiling that, I just realized what you meant. I hope you didn't spoil things for the Anon reading you asshole. That's not a complete confession though, since neither of them were being entirely serious with each other. If it could be counted as a confession of love then Volume 12 would be pointless. I understand what you mean though.

This is a reminder that Ruri Gokou is the the BEST in my little SisTEr can't Be this cute, and a miracle of the universe because she is a genius, loyal, unselfish, witty, brutally honest, funny, talented, a great sister and a great friend.

>>101430528That's what I said I know what you mean. I agree with you. But I think a confession implies that the confesser has accepted those feelings. I was just arguing over semantics really. I agree with you, it just feels like there might be a better word for it.

>>101430565
Yup. She definitely did, of course she plays it off as a joke. Kyousuke did too because of the hints in his inner dialogues but he of course won't accept it until Volume 8.

>>101430899
I think Sena's right. You have to hide your power level in front of most people. She was just lucky Makabe was already nerdy and came round to her fusjoshi tastes (Including her idea of gang rape. He must be weirder than her.).

>>101433745>Are the pillows ever shown in a certain position that's significant?
Other than together, not really.
I guess you could say their persistent appearance in Kirino's room is analogous to Kirino always thinking about Kyousuke.

>>101434839
Quoth the demolitionist, "I'm drunk, you don't have an excuse".

Yeah, I wasn't particularly proud of that one. I just thought it was good enough. I didn't plan out the poem, I just wrote the words as they came to me over the course of twenty seconds, which isn't how literature should be written. I'll do better next time.

>>101434430
Even Season 1 was pretty rushed and a decent amount of small things got cut out which really detracted from the experience to me. There's just so many little things in the LNs that feel really significant, and even a few larger things got cut out, particularly the ending to the Ayase arc.

>“I… a-also love my aniki… maybe.”

But I agree, if they could have kept that going the adaptation would have been much better. But basically,

>Ep 1 - 5: Nearly perfect>Ep 6 (Manami): Fairly good>Ep 7: Not very good, too many changes, only highlight was the Christmas Eve date which was still quite butchered>Ep 8: What a shitstain, I don't even need to explain why>Ep 9: Almost as shitty. Whole episode is non-canon filler.>Ep 10: Apart from a few small changes, very good. Good side character episode>Ep 11: On par with the first 5 episodes. Maid scene was a little butchered but still retained the important stuff. Really good here.>Ep 12 (canon end): Golden. Great episode, near perfectly adapted, seeing Akagi was great, and it stayed meaningful.

>OVAs:
First 2 were good but even in the LNs weren't that amazing. Showed Sena and Kuroneko, small changes but still managed to make the reader and Kyousuke miss Kirino which was sort of the point.
The last one with the finale was pretty bad. The moments Kyousuke and Kirino share in her dormitory are incredibly meaningful and important, but 90% of that was cut. In the LNs it was night time and they slept in the same room all alone.

>>101435741
Commentaries are going to be mostly or at least half comedic relief. This is much more important. The whole thing was written by Fushimi as practically an addendum to the ending to show what Kyousuke and Kirino's relationship is like, and his inner dialogues should be very important or at least very telling. I'm not saying I want it as relief to the shitty ending, I've read the LN, but it has a lot of dere moments for Kirino and the whole thing will show a lot about their relationship which I would love to see.

I'm looking through the extras and they honestly look more fun than the anime was. It's like all the lighthearted fun stuff was stripped from the anime to fit in all the drama. Oreimo's not supposed to be as heavy as S2 made it.

Scroll down and read the FAQ. Welcome to enlightenment. Also you should go read the LNs, like right after you finish reading this pastebin. This text dump has everything you need, so read through all of it.

>>101435040
The only thing I didn't like about episodes 1-6 is that any incest hints were taken away. It's annoying. 7-9 was shit. 10-11 mediocre. 12 (canon)-end were good but that's mostly one of the worst volumes in the LN.

Season 2 was absolute shit. It was only good on a per scene basis for very few of them. Every episode can be considered shit if evaluated as such.

>>101436387
I don't know about you, but I'm bummed. So much great shit got cut, and on top of that, Volume 11. I'm really, really happy with what we got from Volume 13 as it tells us things even the LN readers didn't know for sure and it was all written by Fushimi. However, 100% of Volume 11 is essential. The Sakurai stuff could have been adapted in 12 minutes of footage easily, a lot of it is humor and it's still really important. And the conversation between Manami and Kirino is super important to their character growth as well.

Really would have been amazing if the author had gotten to do his original 20 episode plan. Damn.

>>101436549>It was only good on a per scene basis for very few of them. Every episode can be considered shit if evaluated as such.

So much this. If I rewatch S2 it would be only for a few scenes that were done decently. I don't think I can think of anything that was done really well in Season 2, it pretty much peaks at "good enough" for most of the season. The OVAs were pretty good. But that doesn't excuse it.

>>101436387
That episode was adapted from a drama CD and was written by the author. Problem with it is that it's supposed to be a fun extra. The anime staff was idiotic by wasting a full episode on it.

>>101436242
The author was in charge of the extras/commentaries and has been adding things the anime skipped mostly.

S2 was supposed to be a lot more heavy. Even in the novels it was like that. It was the moment when both of them didn't know how they should act, what they should want, or what they should expect from the other.

Speaking about volumes: 7, 8, 11 and 12 were fucking heavy. 10. 9 and 6 were close to them and I think 9 was the only volume that was on the light side.

>>101437300
Yep. It's not like they didn't have material either. They could have animated a modification of the Kanako/Ayase part and with that add more hinting about Kanako's eventual interest in Kyousuke.

>>101437216
I think they should have decided to cover the story and be consistent about it instead of covering filler, a bit of comedy and the story to have every otherfag happy.

They had already made a mess of S1 but they just decided to take that mess and make a disaster out of it with the way they handled it.

>>101437518
Problem with that is that we were short on episodes. I don't think it could have happened unless you give even more episodes to volume 10 or more to volume 12. Both options are terrible considering that you also have a very important backstory in volume 11 to cover.

>>101437654
What's most inexcusable is that they refused to adapt canon scenes and events apparently due to time constraints, but still put in filler. Even worse, of what they did adapt, a sizeable amount of it was still filler-ish that could have been removed for more important things. Cutting out Kanako entirely from the apartment arc would have been a good step forward as she is the most nonessential. Really, they could have cut down that whole arc to about an episode and then end it right away in the first half of the next.

>Episode 1>Kyousuke kicked out>Kirino gives him fridge>Ayase and Kuroneko fight>Kyousuke keeps studying>Celebration party>Kirino settles to say that nobody will take care of him because she won't allow it>This saves wasted time on Ayase>Episode 2>Loosely adapt the stalker subplot with ayase>Kyousuke runs off to take his test>show Kyousuke and Kirino walking back together and the conversation they have about her future>end with ayase's confession

Fuck me, why are they so incompetent? It's as if they wanted to cut out as much source material as possible instead of actually properly adapting it, cutting out what isn't totally needed.

>>101438035
Kuroneko is a lot more important though, it leads to Kyousuke realizing his love for Kirino and Kirino showing how much she loves him. It's hands down one of the most important arcs of the series. There's no way you could cut it out. You can't let your like for a character cloud your judgement. That's what the anime staff did and it turned out horribly.

>>101438035
You're an evil man for considering a cut to Kuroneko dating time. Episode 9 can't be compressed at all. In fact, it needed even more of an expansion. So we'd have Kuroneko and Kyousuke getting together (and everything that goes with it) and breaking up in one episode.

>>101438268
What's important is episode 9. You'd only need to show like 1 date plus breakup and maybe a quick flashbacks of Kirino/Manami for episode 7/8. They had already skipped part of the Destiny Record that was important, so It's not like they gave a fuck about the integrity of the story.

>>101438106
Yep, skip Hinata. Skip Kanako. And have a mass compression of the party with only Kirino/Ayase/Manami/Kuroneko present.

>>101438455>All that time spent dating Kuroneko seemed like fanservice for Kuroneko fans
It pretty much was. They even cut the part where Kirino and Kyousuke sit on the couch and listen to voice actors for hours, and when Kirino puts their photobooth sticker on her phone and they fall over each other awkwardly.

That chapter was speckled with Kirino and Kyousuke but that stuff was cut to enhance Kuroneko shipperfaggotry.

Do we know if Fushimi had rights to the anime? Could he have taken them and refused to let the adaptation be this way and only let them do it if they do it his way? He did do that to a degree, but I wonder if it would have been possible for him to force them to make more episodes.

>>101438455>>101438554
Oh, if you meant the parts with them dating, I agree. That was pretty painful to watch and it was definitely fanservice. In fact I'm willing to bet Kuroneko was more prevalent after Volume 4 because his publisher demanded it as she was such a popular character. To be honest, everything about Kuroneko past Volume 4 reeks of pandering. Although she is an important character I feel that she is geared towards otaku readers, for some reason. I don't know though, that's just the vibe I get.

>>101438665>That was pretty painful to watch and it was definitely fanservice. In fact I'm willing to bet Kuroneko was more prevalent after Volume 4 because his publisher demanded it as she was such a popular character
Volume 5 focusing on her actually happened because she won a popularity poll if I'm remembering right. Fushimi still managed to focus on her only when he needed her to push Kirino/Kyousuke together. He tossed her aside as much as possible when he didn't.

>>101439007
Ayase actually has better development than Kuroneko but I'd expect it would be mostly the same with roles reversed since Ayase admits that she was doing the same thing as Kuroneko when she was rejected. Building up new dreams once Kyousuke crushed them or some shit.

>>101439090
That's somewhat normal. S1 did the same and that wasn't as rushed. Oreimo volumes would need at least 4 episodes to be fully adapted (or like 6 for volume 12). Then there's some chapters like volume 8, ch 4 that can't be done fully in one episode. Just look at Episode 9.

>>101439415
V8Ch4 did get pretty much fully adapted though. The only thing that was different IIRC was the way Kyousuke wakes up Kirino for advice, the lights are off the whole time, and Kyousuke cries a lot more. Then there's a few small differences. But those were just the anime team being shit, not them having a lack of time. I could be wrong here though.

Sometimes, late at night, I'll post on these threads and pretend to be a normal Kirino fan. No plan to make Oreimo fans look bad, no reconnaissance to find out what they do with their spare time. In my tired mind, my logic is 'if I post, that's one less time an actual Oreimo fan can post before the thread hits the bump limit'.

>>101439652
Well, at least you made me laugh. Usually we're just dumping images in the wee hours of the night until the bump limit though. The zealous hate for Ore No Imouto really doesn't affect me much. I try to ignore the people that hate irrationally and for the people that are a bit more open minded I just try to help them understand why I like it. Thanks for being honest though.

I was talking more about the fact that the anime (episode 9) wasn't able to cover it (Vol8Ch4) fully. The fight between Kuroneko and Kirino and Belphegor's talk with Kyousuke and all that. Plenty of stuff important there that wasn't covered because of time.

>>101439812
I don't think there is. As far as I know yhe only extras that got ripped seperately and uploaded was the mini-VN with Sakurai. Although you can easily queue the whole torrent of the BD and then prioritize the commentary files to download first in your client.

>>101439904
I forgot about the talk with Manami, thanks. Maybe if we're incredibly lucky, it's one chance in a million, but maybe we'll get a re-adaptation a couple years down the line. Of course it still wouldn't hold a candle to the LNs but a proper visualization of the novels would be nice.

Ah, I feel like, Oreimo really can't be done properly unless in word form. Kyousuke's thoughts and narration is really important and it isn't possible to do in anime form, unfortunately.

Anyways, I just said that because I remember he's said it several times. I think at one point he even said he doesn't have any sexual feelings for Kirino, in his narration and out loud. He says he would never lay a hand on her, don't remember where exactly though.

>>101442729
Sometimes I search old Oreimo images in the archive to see the hilarity that comes up.
http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/43191574/#43192644
http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/64074994/#64079156Then I realize I posted in these threads and I've been here for too long.

>http://archive.foolz.us/a/thread/42458194/#42459012>Fuck this, this ring cost more than 300 fucking dollars. Who'd buy this for their sister? >I would've gotten it for her, but secretly. Then I would give it to her on Christmas.
Kyousuke confirmed for /a/

>>101445162
Incest is a shortcut. Sibligs are obligated to love each other anyway, and they have to do so from birth onwards. Non-related partners CHOSE to love each other, they had to do it later in life, and there they are. At the same amount of love. Without cheating.

>>101440113
Koi Kaze is probably the only incest anime which I consider good. It has all the seriousness and emotional conflict you'd expect from an incestuous romance, which is exactly what I want when I look for stories like these. The age difference between the siblings is somewhat off-putting, though

OniAi is just generic haremshit garbage, not worth my time
KissxSis started off well, but now it seems like it's gone in a completely different direction. Keita barely cares about the sisters anymore
YnS had potential to be as good as KoiKaze, but going with the omnibus format was a horrible mistake and pretty much ruined it for me. At least the soundtrack was good

>>101430414>Good fucking call. Later in Japan, after the episodes were released, he finally admitted that Kirino was best girl.>Telling lies on the internet>Didn't even watch this yet I can tell you lied

>>101446218>http://ebook.itmedia.co.jp/ebook/articles/1306/20/news020.html>-By the end of the story, his favourite character is Kirino, but it wasn't that way at first and he was just as annoyed with her as Kyousuke was at the beginning. But having her hide her true romantic feelings was part of the setting, and so he struggled to bring out the charm of this hated heroine little by little over the course of the narrative. And then, as all these developments started adding up, the amount of people who came to like her increased, and that made the author happy.

Yeah. Except they didn't. They HATE each other in the beginning of the series. You're not doing a good job of showing me that you aren't ignorant of the series. If you can't do that, this discussion isn't worth having.

>watching last Blu-ray commentary before the VN-like specials>Kyousuke mentions this is the last time the viewer will see them like this>Kirino looks a little bit sad but says that even so, she will not say "Goodbye">both thank the viewer for watching and Kirino says "See you later!" while waving
Almost shed a tear. Fucking hell, I'm gonna miss Oreimo

>>101446549
This is what I would be okay with. Parallel universe side stories.

Howabout this? Something that really could have happened.

During Kyousuke's confession, he is chasing after Kirino. He almost grabs her, but she runs across a crosswalk at the last moment. He falls down as we see in the anime. But when he gets up and runs across the road after her, he is hit by a speeding car.

He is severely injured. Comatose for 2 months.

When he wakes up, he finds that Kirino ended up going abroad after her graduation. He never gets to finish his confession.

>>101446836
Ah damn, you're probably right. Oh well, it was a fun situation to think about. First time I read that scene I was thinking what would happen if he got hit by a car, and actually worrying it would happen.

>>101446848
You couldn't add Westermarck into the equation without changing their past. And the thing is that if you change their past the events of the series never happen anyways. Read "My Black Haired Little Sister Can't Be This Cute".

>>101447034
I haven't read it because I know it will make me depresssed, but I know what it's about. Its a side story where Manami never interferes with their relationship. Because of this, they remain normal siblings.

>>101424054
Is that what people get mad about? I hated the stupid fucking ending. I'm not anti incest or anything like it but for him to be a stupid faggot and choose his sister when he knew they weren't going to be together after he graduated is just retarded.

>>101447102
It sounds unsettling, to me. I don't want to read it and probably won't for a while. Having only finished the LNs and anime for the first time a couple weeks ago, I'm still very emotionally sensitive, to say the least.

>>101447196
Like I said, I mean emotionally unsettling. I know that it will make me depressed. Like >>101447217 says, in a way.

>>101447231
Not that Anon, but that's as far as I ever go unless they're clearly willing to learn. If they want to continue being upset over the ending that's fine, but since there are people like >>101437159 who come along every once in a while and are actually not just hating irrationally but unfortunately just misled by the anime, it's cruel not to at least help them out a bit.

>>101447345
They're not as close, they're not honest with each other or themselves, Kirino's not as passionate about the things she loves, etc.

Both Kirino and Kyousuke are happy as siblings but even then it's a fraction of the happiness they share in canon. It closes with Kyousuke winning Kirino a Meruru doll from an arcade and her putting it in her empty hidden closet.

>>101447345
It's tragic because it challenges the fact that Manami was wrong about their relationship. It's thought provoking. It shows what would happen if she has her way. It is naturally scary to think that the events of Oreimo led to a conclusion less favorable than the one it was arguing against for the whole series. They seem happy. But are they, really? I don't know. This is why it's unsetttling. There are arguments on both sides that it isn't a happy story though.

Regardless, things happen in life that are beyond your control. If the better future would have been them as normal siblings, it wouldn't matter. Sometimes bad events befall people and ruin a potentially bright future. But you can't do anything about it but try and achieve a different future that is also bright.

>>101447539
Are you some type of manami fag?
let me tell you something
society is the reason why incest is even viewed in a bad light.
moralfags are horrible monsters.
they are the reason for every censor and ban there is on anime
and real life
the only reason anything can be seen as tragic is because the based opinions of one seeing it as tragic.
stop being cows that take grass from moralfag farmers.

No, don't operate on that assumption. All I was saying is that it's interesting to think about what their future would be like if they were normal siblings, and that the story is frightening to me because it makes me consider that Manami might have been right., which I don't believe and don't want to.

It doesn't challenge anything. If it wanted to challenge the notion that incest is wrong it would have shown the consequences involved to say that they aren't that bad or could be managed or something. This is purely masturbation material for people with a tsundere incest fetish. Don't force your own opinions on a show.

By the way if it actually did challenge the notion that incest is wrong it would not have legally been allowed on TV.

So what if Kirino is in fact best girl? It's not about a universal opinion about who is best girl, it's about which girl is best girl in your heart, anon-kun. I'm okay with Kirino winning because Ruri is mai waifu anyway.

>>101448174
You can't judge the story based on how it lives up to the ideal that Oreimo was working towards. That just isn't fair and it defeats the point of the whole thing.

>less happy
The problem is that we don't know, that's why I'm saying it's uncertain. Sure they aren't as happy in the story as they are in Oreimo. That's because they didn't just find the love of their lives. Once they grow up and get spouses of their own, fall in love with someone and get married with them, who's to say they might be happy then? It leaves room for that, that's all I'm saying.

>less close
I feel it's unfair to measure the weight of the story based on their closenes. Of course they aren't as close as they are in canon, no 'normal' pair of siblings would be that close.

Let me reiterate this. I am NOT saying Manami was right. In fact I'm saying the opposite. . I firmly believe she isn't. But this story leaves open the idea that they could have had a future as happy siblings with their own happy futures. Who knows? Like I said, it's open. And you can't say that my argument is moot because it speculative, because the only way to see the story as proving that Manami was wrong is by seeing that it isn't Oreimo.

So it can go both ways.

Sorry if I don't seem coherent, I've been on /a/ for over 12 hours and it's like 4am, I'm trying to finish the S1 commentaries.

>>101448467
He used to dump Manami in pretty much every Oreimo thread. He's one of the hyperautistic waifu types who pretends Manami is physically living with him, that sort of thing.
Volume 11 drove him legitimately insane and probably deeper into alcoholism. I think he avoids Oreimo threads now because they upset him.

He's pitiable now, but that wasn't the case for the past couple years.

>>101448540
What I'm getting is that he's from the Low Countries, he likes Manami, and used to post here. I hear 'autistic' being thrown around, but we brush our teeth with the word 'autism' on these threads.

>>101448597
A shitposter. He takes Oreimo way too seriously and is literally seething with hatred for Kirinobros and anyone that doesn't love Manami. So he shitposts about it. Autistic tripfags are commonplace now, this shouldn't be surprising. But he takes it to a new level.

>>101448705
Wow, that's interesting. Thanks.>>101448729
Now, you see, you seem like a bad person. Switch the names around, and you've got these threads. And I'm looking at the image you posted, and that also seems quite terrible.It was his fucking BIRTHDAY, man.

>>101447281
So it was just implied that they were going to stay together? That makes me hate the end a lot less. I never read the manga or lns (light novel?) though, did it end differently at all? I was going to read it until I saw pictures of people burning their books.

>>101448834
Kirino asks for a new ring, Kyousuke kiss is on the lips, life counseling continues.
If you're going to read nothing else, just read volume 12 and >>101447177>>101436467.
The anime did a pretty awful job of season 2, especially the ending.

If you enjoyed the series up until the ending, though, it's worth reading the LNs because they're a lot better than the anime.

Yes. It's hard to pick up on with the anime because it's so shit and they cut out so much plot, so the only way to understand it without checking the source material is to read into details way more than you normally would.

Did you read the FAQ and the things in it? Author interviews, image, etc. You should definitely read the LNs no matter what if you enjoyed the series though. The anime adaptation butchered many things and the ending was one of them. It ends the same way in the LNs but it's much better developed and made more clear that they aren't giving up on their love.

I actually get fucking depressed over this series. It's pathetic but I can't help it. I just hate that amazing girls like Saori and Ruri are stuck in such a shitty story. Why couldn't this it just be about Kirino and Kyousuke? Why did there need to be such great girls who were doomed from the start literally due to the title?

>>101448945
No I haven't read them yet, but I'm leaving the tabs open for tomorrow because I need to sleep and that's a lot to read at 3 am.
I'm just happy that it didn't really end the way I thought it did, I always got irritated when I thought of the show after the last episode. Especially since I thought it was so good that I held off on watching it in a few days. I ended up taking a couple weeks.

>>101449089
But she's a fictional character. We will never see this. She doesn't exist outside of the 2d world. There will never be a chance to see her in an environment where she can have her own happy romance, and this makes me incredibly sad.

>>101448999
It gets me depressed too, but for different reasons. A lot of people feel sad after watching Oreimo.

All the other girls are incomplete versions of Kirino. It revolves around Kyousuke and his relationship with Kirino. His time with them is to remind him that he needs her. Thematically, him rejecting them is part of the first of several steps he takes to cement his love for Kirino in spite of the consequences it has on his future. Pic related.

Really the side characters are more elvevant then in most stories because they all are important and help the plot in their own way, and are all well written in addition. It's always about the siblings, everything relates back to them, but it would be boring with just them. And much less entertaining. Most agree that a major plus of Oreimo is the likeable and memorable characters.

Also, none of them had true love for Kyousuke. Any relationship he could have gotten in would have been a mistake in the first place.

>>101449134
I understand. I'm glad we could help. I was glad when people handed the pastebin to me and showed me the ending wasn't what I thought it was, too. Then I went on to read the LNs and fell in love with this series. Never looked back.

>>101449200
I started oreimo back when the anime aired, though, so it was too late for me right from the start. At this point, I avoid most harem anime, but I was already invested in these particular characters, and I can't do much about that.

>>101449142
I don't understand. Take her as your waifu if you will. Tell me where that fits into canon. She's unattached by the seems of things.

There is no truth save that which we read into it. Unlike reality where there is a "truth" of a sort. But if you followed a story beyond it's conclusion you would find mundane lives.

This is what the ending of oreimo is. Fushimi giving us everything we need to decide what we think happenned. He did just say "Horray the adventure continues, make up your own ideas from now on", it's more like these characters are three dimensional enough to exist beyond the story that created them. You can see what they would do.

>>101449256
Manami does love Kyousuke. But, have you read the LNs? The stuff with Manami was cut. You need to read them to understand this. Part of why he doesn't belong with her is the contrast between the way she tries to 'support' Kyousuke by discouraging him in his life, while Kirino does the opposite, inspiring him and supporting him to do his best.

If you are serious about never reading the LNs or don't care for spoilers, read the excerpts that are posted in this thread.

>>101449300
I know how you feel man. I couldn't just stop watching either.
And while ago I watched an anime called OreShura. It was the only harem I've seen besides the bit of harem my little sister has. Anyway, for some reason I didn't think about how bad it would must likely end until there were only 2 episodes left. And to me it ended pretty bad and realised I didn't want to watch a harem anime ever again. It'll almost never end the way you want it to.

>>101449300>>101449489
Oreimo isn't intended to be a harem anime, and you don't have to see it that way if you don't misunderstand the series and think that the girls are real romance options for the protagonist.

>>101449134>>101449367
I am this person and I'm definitely going to read them. And I knew he didn't like her because when they were laying next to each other she asked what he'd do if someone said they liked him. He said something like he doesn't want a relationship or likes things the way they are. But still, even though she was kind of a bitch she was just so adorable. One of the cutest scenes with her was when she was trying to let him put his head in her lap.

>>101449539
That's why I said bit of harem, I meant like harem-ish. I never thought of them as real possible love interests for him but a couple of the girls were pretty amazing so it's kind of sad when they get turned down, at least to me.

>>101449729
Oh okay, my bad. I understand what you mean though. Unfortunately it was something that had to be done. Kuroneko's rejection made me cry a bit just because I could feel her how much it hurt her. All the characters are like this.

>>101450043
Let's do it. This was 2 threads in one day and I've been posting for almost 18 hours now. But I'll see this one to the death and then we'll make our own next time. Maybe tuesday or something.

>>101449182>Also, none of them had true love for Kyousuke. Any relationship he could have gotten in would have been a mistake in the first place.
OP of the other thread that came with this one.
There's nothing that time can't fix.

>>101450692
Well, it's bound to get worse if you have a masochist boy and a stubborn overbearing girl.>Regardless I don't understand your point.
I may have misunderstood it and you're actually blaming Kyousuke for being who he is right now for his incompetence for romance.