Breaking the chains, winning the games, and saving Western Civilization.

Wednesday, March 25, 2015

The past has consequences

Rollo astutely juxstaposes Sheryl Sandberg's advice for women to sow their wild oats with Alphas, then settle down with Deltas and Gammas afterwards with one woman's actual experience of having her past unexpectedly disclosed to her husband:

As of this morning, we still hadn’t slept in the same bed or spoken more than 10 words to each other in passing. As I was waking up, he was walking in the front door with two coffees. He sat me down at our kitchen table and finally opened up to me.

Basically he feels that he was “conned” (his word) into the marriage, saying that he wouldn’t have even dated me, let alone married me, if he’d known what he knows now. His view of me has been irreparably changed and he no longer sees me “as someone worthy of being [his] wife”. (quoting him here… fucking prick) Beyond the sexual aspect, he says he no longer trusts me because I “kept something this big” from him our whole relationship. Nothing I could do or say could convince him that these were past mistakes and not reflective of who I am today. He wasn’t angry with me, didn’t call me a slut or anything like that. Never once raised his voice. Part of me wishes he did, although I can’t exactly say why right now. It felt like I was being laid off from a job.

So that’s it. We are getting divorced. My supposed life-partner turning his back on me without a second thought. He didn’t even have the decency to discuss it with me first – apparently he visited his lawyer during the week and “the process is in motion” (his words). Knowing him, there is absolutely no changing his mind.

My husband owns multiple businesses and wouldn’t get married without a prenup. I signed it, honest-to-god thinking we’d never, EVER have to use it. Well, he had the fucking document with him this morning. He said he’d pay off the remainder of my student loans, which he isn’t “legally obligated” to do. While I appreciate that, I am going to meet with my lawyer this week and see if the agreement can be challenged in court. We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash.

So that’s it. My life turned upside-down in the span of a week, over something I did 10+ YEARS AGO BEFORE I EVEN KNEW HIM. It’s fucking asinine. The thing is, even as I wrote the original post, in the back of my mind I knew he was through with me. He’s ended friendships and business partnerships over less.

As Rollo points out: "One of the primary disconnects women are conditioned to believe
during their Epiphany Phase is that a “good man” will be willing to
forgive and forget her past indiscretions. On their journey of
self-exploration and discovery women are encouraged to adopt a finely
tuned cognitive dissonance with who they conveniently become and what
should be the consequences of their pasts. While men are expected to
live up to their responsibilities as men, and are expected to own up to
the consequences of their failures, at the Epiphany Phase women are
encouraged to convince themselves that they become someone else –
someone who was “so different” from who she was in her Party Years. Her
husband feels “conned” because he was conned; conned after discovering
the dual personality of his pre and post Epiphany Phase wife."

It seems to me this gentleman was absolutely, if belatedly, correct about his wife's complete lack of character and he's doing the right thing by kicking her to the curb as quickly and cleanly as possible. Not only did she conceal her past from him, but now that she's been caught out, she's trying to figure out how to escape an arrangement she agreed to even though he's going beyond his legal obligations by paying off her student loans. (Is anyone even remotely surprised that a woman like this has debt?) Her Female Imperative of the right to historical revisionism and the lifestyle to which she has become accustomed has been violated, and rather than regretting her mistakes, she is enraged by the consequences of them.

Women always want to believe the past is irrelevant, which is remarkably stupid because the past informs who and what we are today. And those pasts can only be fully understood and accepted if they are admitted; lying about them is foolish because most lies are eventually exposed sooner or later over time. Not everyone is short-sighted enough to live only for today; most women don't want to be married to such men anyway since they tend to be unreliable and unable to support women and children.

Expecting any man who is sufficiently far-sighted to successfully launch multiple businesses and insist on a pre-nup to react like some drug-addled musician who can't remember yesterday or think past tomorrow is cognitive dissonance of the sort that gets Epiphany Phase women in trouble. If a woman is a slut in college, she's still a slut even when she cleans up her act, she's a reformed slut. Epiphany equals reform, not erasing history. A reformed slut is not the same thing as a woman who is not a slut. That doesn't mean the reformed slut can't be a lovely individual, or that she is a woman no man will marry, it simply means she can't marry any man who isn't willing to marry a slut. This isn't rocket science.

Once a gambler, always a gambler. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Once a player, always a player. Once a slut, always a slut. It's about the internal wiring, not the external actions. Even when one gets one's behavior under control, the wiring is still there.

And if the reformed slut does marry under false pretenses, she's a con artist, and she should be no more surprised when the man she conned no more wants to continue the marriage than Bernie Madoff's victims wanted to continue their investments with him.

103 comments:

My potential 'her' reads my blog. And while I don't name names, I most certainly make it clear, as well as memory works, just what kind of numbers are back there, and more. She is a good girl, too, as... good as girls go. To be honest, I don't think, mostly, that bugs her. Will have to be discussed, at some point.

As to this guy? I feel sorry for men who can't see, don't know. I've had women come to me as lily whites, but the tells are all over them. If she was sufficient for the moment, or the best of the lot, so be it. But I wasn't conned. I don't care if she uses an ancient Chinese secret, I know if a mare has been trail burned or not before I ever get her in bed. The attitude, and it really is in the eyes. She isn't focused on the guy as a lover, only a scratching post. They've become terribly impersonal about it. Worse when they have been with petty men who are turned on by porn. Bleh. Takes one, to a degree, to know one though, I suppose. At least I stopped yelling "Yea-Ha", after putting on spurs. :p

The woman probably knew that her husband wouldn't marry her if he knew about her past beforehand. Which is why she never told him. I laughed out loud when she said they were together for just 5 years, and is talking as if she is the reason that the husband got successful. I am too young to think about getting married, but I know that no man who values his time, who values himself, would want to waste time with something that does not benefit him.

He wasn’t angry with me, didn’t call me a slut or anything like that. Never once raised his voice... It felt like I was being laid off from a job.

Man handled it in exactly the right way. He was seriously disappointed, but instead of whining or losing his temper, he maintained control and did what needed to be done, which is better for everyone involved including the wife. Good example.

DEUTERONOMY 24:1-41 When a man has taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he has found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house.

This doesn't say "and he shalt be forced to forgive her, pay her alimony, forfeit his house, and forgive all lest he be a meany-poo" it says she walks away with a piece of paper - that's all. That is what GOD requires of him no more or less and demanding more (as women ALWAYS do) is not supported.

The most striking thing is how she is angry at him over something that's entirely her fault. It's clear that she's despised him for a long time, and she's only trying to hang onto the marriage now because she was caught off-guard and isn't in control of the demolition. And it's typical that she's also angry at him for not being angry; women always feel better about things if there's lots of emotional drama to obfuscate the facts. Keeping it calm and dry lets everyone see the reality, which drives them crazy.

One of the worst lies of modern society is this idea that one's past doesn't matter, that the moment you end a relationship and get it "out of your system" enough to start looking for a new one, the previous relationship is irrelevant. Like the most insidious lies, it's based on a truth of Christianity, that we can be washed clean through the Spirit (or through Confession), but they misapply that to mean you're auto-washed clean every day, or at least whenever you say so. (And Christianity never said that being washed clean removed any consequences other than the eternal one.) It's funny, too, that the same people who believe this also believe that childhood abuse you can't even remember can completely alter your adult self. An overly hard spanking when you were 3: huge; pulling a train in a bar two years ago: why would that matter?

It's kind of amazing that they've changed society so quickly from valuing female chastity to saying that it's not only unimportant, but a man who cares about it is a controlling, insecure loser.

The thing is, even as I wrote the original post, in the back of my mind I knew he was through with me.

I'm sure it's not supposed to, but this sentence makes me smile.

Somewhere in his article Rollo describes Beta (and lesser) males having to work to get the sexual favours (and more) that the female gave to the Alphas for free during her carousel years. That really must grate.

"We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash."

Yes you do, because you believe that being faithful to your husband is some kind of accomplishment to be lauded, rather than your default mindset. Faithfulness is part and parcel, not going above and beyond your wifely duties.

Krul, it's clear to me from her swearing and dismissive attitude toward him. If she were still in love with him, or even respected him, she'd show some regret for having deceived him. She'd care about his pain, even if she disagrees about whether he should feel it.

The only regret I see from her is that he surprised her, and isn't giving her any way to reframe it as his fault (like getting mad and yelling enough that she can accuse him of emotional abuse, for instance). But the hamster will work overtime, and she'll come up with reasons by the time the divorce is final, so it's all good.

I had to run this one back to the original source. I didn't believe it. It read too much like Red Pill fan fiction. Everything the guy did was just too perfect. But it seems to be for real. There's all kinds of women's feelz at the original thread.

Biggest feeling being, whatever happens in college stays in college.

Like college is supposed to be another planet. No not even that, it's like something that happened in a previous incarnation.

You can't hold what I did against me!

In the Marine Corps this was known as the Okinawa Slut. A little background is in order.

From the SouthEast Asia Dictionary: Ugly Stick, a device used by Okinawan mothers to discipline their daughters. Okinawa is the only island in the South Pacific with ugly girls, (The genetic reasons are actually rather interesting). The minimum tour of duty for a Marine is one year based on the Island.

An American girl who rates a Six is treated like a Nine by the lonely, horny nineteen year old Alpha Males on Okinawa. The man/woman ratio there is about one to ten.

The Women Marines on The Rock are legendary barracks whores. Yet they all have boyfriends stateside that they (and this is the hilarious part) are staying true to.

As soon as they were back stateside they would pretend it never ever happened. I had a friend whose very hot fiancé had been there. When she got back to the world, she bought him a $600 (adjusted) car stereo for his birthday. He was delighted.

Cataline: Dude, has she ever bought you something like that before?

Santini: No, isn't it great! She really missed me!

Cataline: I doubt if she missed anyone. Prepare yourself for a shock.

Santini: No way man. My girl was true to me!

Cataline: Dude, no girl on Earth turns her pants upside for her boyfriend, unless she is feeling massively guilty about something. Also she's thinking about dumping you.

Santini: Fuck you man. You're jealous of what I got!

The Marine Corps is a big small town. The rumors from the Rock started to flow in and they were impressive. Anyway he finally confronts her. She claimed it was just one time. (*Of course I laughed in his face*) He forgives her after a day of moping.

I know a woman in college who cheated on her boyfriend with at least seven men, with at least five MFM threeways that I know of, and at least one with three men and her. Her boyfriend and her broke up.

She met someone new. They seemed to hit if off right away, and very early on she told him the truth. All of it. Strangely enough, he was OK with it. That was that.

They've been married 20+ years, raised two children, and by all accounts seem happy. So it is possible to overcome a past, but not by dishonesty or omission. She respected him enough to tell the truth, and for some reason, he didn't care. To each his own, I suppose.

A few years ago I was banging a hot little blonde stationed at MCAS Miramar in San Diego. She'd come up for the weekend and we'd hang out. From what she told me, there's rampant messing around on the base. The African officers are the worst, and love to prey on fresh White girls from the South and Midwest, but she claimed a lot of the girls were plain wild. Putting women in the military is a mistake and facilitates this kind of behaviour. Let's not be deceived that a lot of young women join up precisely so they can travel and go on 'adventures' that the folks back home never hear about.

Btw, the businessman in the original story sounds pure butthurt Beta (if not lower)--not Alpha. I actually knew a guy like this in a similar situation, and as successful and wealthy as he was, it couldn't obscure his betatude.

Yes, exactly. If her past was "no big deal" then why didn't she tell him? No matter what they may claim, women know sluts are not marriage material, so they lie.

The sad truth is prenup or no she will likely come out of this with cash. Prenups are tossed out all the time. All she needs is a sympathetic judge and some stories about how her husband is "abusive" or neglectful.

Even if the OP is fantasy, the comments defending it show that they are out there and that the attitude displayed in the article exists. Blogging a critique of the original post is not without merit.

Math seems off - correct me if I am wrong. She is 31, they have been married for five years and the OPer says it happened 10 years before she met him? She doing multiple 3s at 16? And did she simply stop for 10 years? Whelps.....had my fill....

Yeah, because she had his wealth and prestige to play around with. It may have been the best five years of her life, but it certainly wasn't the best five years of her vagina. She'd already given that most prized possession away for free.

"TL;. DR - My husband [M34] of 2 years found out some of my [F31] sexual exploits in college He has barely talked to me since he found out, and I'm afraid our relationship might be finished over something I did 10 years ago before I even knew him.

I'll try and keep this short. We've known each other 5 years, been married for 2 years, and up until last weekend things were perfectly fine. Maybe once in a while we'd bicker about money or something, but 99 % of the time we were happy together.

While out last weekend for a friends birthday, a (now ex) friend of mine told my husband about a relationship I had in college. My husband knew about my college boyfriend, but obviously I did not share intimate details about our sex life. Well ... it came out that I used to engage in threesomes with him and his male roommate. Probably 12-15 in total, but all my husband knows is that it was 'more than once'.

. College was a totally different time in my life I was drinking every weekend, doing recreational drugs every month, partying, having casual flings -. Just like everyone else at that age It was a hedonistic "live for today" lifestyle that I thankfully grew out of. I look back on those years with a lot of regrets, and not just about my sex life. I mean, it was 10+ years ago. I'm a totally different person now.

Regardless, I know my husband sees me in a totally different light. He has not slept in our bed since he found out, and he's barely spoken to me all week. I'm so scared he'll divorce me, I'm walking on eggshells just trying to stay out of his way while he works through this. I really want to sit him down and clear the air, I just do not know where to begin ... I feel like one slip of the tongue and our relationship could be completely over.

I know I'm not a good person for keeping this from him, so please do not lecture me. It was a chapter of my life I'd thought I'd closed for good. It was my ONE secret, and I honestly debated telling him about it but came to the conclusion that no positive outcome could come from it."

@AmyJ "We have built a life together, I gave him 5 of the best years of my life and I’ve been 100% faithful to him – I don’t fucking deserve to be tossed out like a piece of trash."

Yes you do, because you believe that being faithful to your husband is some kind of accomplishment to be lauded, rather than your default mindset. Faithfulness is part and parcel, not going above and beyond your wifely duties.

Exactly. She reveals that her past is important in determining what her struggles would be in marriage. Her faithfulness was her overcoming and her victory, something she has thought she deserves a prize for. This is more of the deception that was unbeknownst to him.

It's funny, too, that the same people who believe this also believe that childhood abuse you can't even remember can completely alter your adult self.

This is a very good point. Think of the support people are given for needing antidepressants to cope with past abuses done to them by others but the complete denial of the devastation to mental health that one's own actions (promiscuity, abortions, etc) will contribute.

I know several couples in similar situations, and in each case I get the feeling the guy doesn't know but I can't be sure. If any of these were close friends I would try to figure out if they knew and tell them, but since they're casual acquaintances I just figure it's none of my business. What do you all think about this? Would you tell even a close friend?

Also, odds here are quite high that this guy's wife still isn't telling him everything.

She respected him enough to tell the truth, and for some reason, he didn't care. To each his own, I suppose.

I think that is the major problem most men have with this. Women who lie about their past have probably lied about so much more. It's about the husband trying to calculate what he cannot see or determine.

To top that off, she was probably not giving him wild sex like she used to. And that does matter to a husband. Remember, marriage for a man is about exclusive sexual access. If she's not giving him the sex he wants and he knows she can because she has done it in the past, then he's going to feel like a tool.

Her breakup won't necessarily happen if she had a few children, which would force her husband to consider the drawbacks of divorce even with the prenuptial agreement. There was no indication of marital strife, but it does seem odd for her to have a mouthy friend who let out the truth. Modern marriage is Dating 2.0, single while married.

The comments at Reddit are rather hilarious. A case could be made that some men won't care about her past, but they had full knowledge. Her husband was deceived. He had no chance to forgive her. It is certainly possible that he would have broken up with her if he knew prior to the marriage so she took the chance.

@Tridekka ~ Thanks for posting the orig piece. Her story doesn't sound particularly far-fetched. Although a guy who engages in threesomes with his male roommate might be a bit of a fruit. Just saying. Anyway, I think her kind of background is much more common than people want to admit. It's up to men to weed the sluts out. But, like Charlie Brown in the Peanuts cartoon, they keep getting fooled over and over again.

Krul, it's clear to me from her swearing and dismissive attitude toward him. If she were still in love with him, or even respected him, she'd show some regret for having deceived him. She'd care about his pain, even if she disagrees about whether he should feel it.

The only regret I see from her is that he surprised her, and isn't giving her any way to reframe it as his fault (like getting mad and yelling enough that she can accuse him of emotional abuse, for instance). But the hamster will work overtime, and she'll come up with reasons by the time the divorce is final, so it's all good.

Jere says: "Conscientia Republicae said... Women join the USMC to gain access to the most prime cock on the planet: the UNITED STATES MARINE."

yeah there's no whiff of latent homosexuality around this AT ALL... eh devil dog?No worries though, I admit that i tried to join the marines and failed the background check.... turns out my parents were married.

Good for him, he remained in observation mode not irrational anger mode, observation mode allows a degree of cold consideration of ones situation and options for a solution. It appears that in 5 years there were no children either, the man is smart to end things and enforce another document, the pre-nup. That is how it goes, life is life when not lived the right way. The carousel never ever pays off, what is done in the dark will be brought to the light.

Based on looking at Rollo's chart of SMV, if he married her when she was in her "Epiphany Years" (i.e., 28-30), he did get a raw deal. If she was, say, 23-25 years old when she married him, that would have been a different matter, even if she was a slut. It would have indicated that he was alpha enough to make her decide to make a life with him rather than continue her Party Years and collect more notches.

We could probably think up some algorithm to determine a man's SMV based on 1) how old the woman is when she decided to marry him, and 2) how attractive she is. Here's my initial stab at it:

Alpha/Sigma: gets married by a hot (HB8-10) girl in her Party Years prime (ages 20-26).Beta: either a cute (HB7-8) girl in her Party Years prime, or a hot girl in her Epiphany Years (26-29).Delta: a plain jane (HB4-6) in her Party Years, a cute girl in her Epiphany Years, or a hot girl in her 30s (who is probably divorced and/or with kids already).Gamma: an obese warpig (HB<4) in her Party Years, a plain jane in her Epiphany Years, or a cute girl in her 30s (divorced/with kids/feminazi/mental issues).Omega: an obese warpig in her Epiphany Years, or a plain jane in her 30s.

Verdict: the businessman is a Delta, not an Alpha. Her snide remarks about him make this clear. His not losing his temper simply keeps him out of Gamma status.

I second the notion that there was a reason the 'girlfriend' outed her. Aside from her having a sidepiece, which I guess I doubt given she's only two years into her cash and prizes marriage, I could see the her complaining to her girlfriend that the married sex was already boring. And the girlfriend, out of sympathy for the guy, or spying an opportunity for herself, spoke up.

It's a very odd thing to do, impugning another woman's character with radioactive material.

in all seriousness, I admit I was a complete Gamma growing up, but have graduated, by paying close attention and applying Red pill principles, to higher delta or mid beta status. Not bad if I do say so myself. Taking pot shots at Marines crowing about their manhood is just too much to resist for us CAV guys... It's like the internet meme of an M1A2 firing the main gun and a caption that reads: "Oh my God we're surrounded, call the Infantry!" Said no one ever.But I recognize How you could draw the conclusion that my comments were generated out of "gamma rage" at marines pulling poontang in exotic locales.... but then I'd have to be jealous of Okinawan jails, fistfights in Pusan and taking big green horsepills for Gonorrhea. To me, it's just what interservice rivalry is for.

Btw, the businessman in the original story sounds pure butthurt Beta (if not lower)--not Alpha.

Yeah, I wouldn't jump to the conclusion that he's an Alpha; he could just be shellshocked and withdrawn. His reaction is reasonably Alpha, or at least not Gamma, though that depends greatly on whether he's the one sleeping on the couch. But guys of any rank could react this way at first, and as others pointed out, real Alphas don't tend to marry women after they've passed their freshness date. We'd have to know how he continues to act after the shock wears off to judge.

Also, a woman married to an Alpha (at least a man she perceives as Alpha) would react with more fear and guilt and less anger and coldness. Heck, women married to Alphas react with more empathy than this when it's their husband who was cheating and lying.

He is opting to pay off her college debt. That could be forgiven debt and later the 1099 form would be waiting for her. It sounds like she will need to arrange housing asap, no worry about debts.

It speaks volumes of goodness to be willing to eat her debt. But I can guarantee its the last time he'd pay off any womans debt again after being defrauded/hurt like that. Sexual past history is a huge deal to men. How captain obvious in 2015 post feminism to have to word for word that! Sexual past history is a huge deal to men.

On the other hand, at times, if need be a psy op of trashing yourself online to spread a local rumor from hell to get unwanted (gammatude) men to leave a person alone is also, life is life. uncool but sometimes, like all the time, women will concoct a silly plan like that and expect a fallout online. Offline the miscreants look in disdain at the shamed pysop'ed woman.

@Corvinus I know, hence the parenthetical chuckle. Now that I think about it, ther are two reasons for the back and forth... Army vs Marine jokes and hte (perceived?) Gamma attack on the Alpha proclamation about females becoming marines to have the 'best cocks in the world'. This intrigues me a bit, because initially, I chalked it up to "there goes a marine talking smack again.... ooh I got one! That's funny." but now, in the spirit of Vox's graduating Gamma series, Im not so sure... thoughts? (I'm not so sensitive that'll I'm gonna run off an pout if people point out gamma behaviors, we're after truth here are we not?)

@conscientia I was in the CAV... short for Cavalry... what y'all called at Khe Sahn, remember? And lastly, what are these "showers" you refer to, we have to bathe when the creeks rise and upstream of them hosses.

Rollo makes a really good point there about where part of the pain for the man comes from. It's not just that she had more cocks than he knew about, and it's not just that she lied to him. It's also that she did things with those men that she won't/can't do with him. Her college boyfriend got her so hot she let him and his roommate make the big sandwich with her, but she hasn't offered her husband threesomes, has she? Not that she should, if she's telling the truth about leaving those sinful practices behind; but if she can't offer him that, what can she give him that's even in the ballpark excitement-wise?

So with many of these cases, it's not just that other men have had her, it's that other men have had her in wilder ways than he gets to. She doesn't do THAT anymore. It'd be one thing if a woman said, "Look, I was pretty wild when I was younger, and I'm not proud of it. I wish I'd saved myself for you. But the silver lining is that I learned some tricks that you're going to love in bed, and there's no chance that I'm frigid. Here, DP me with this cucumber." That never seems to happen. Usually just the opposite: she shuts down anything wild because she doesn't want to be wild with the husband; she wants to stay in control.

She should have had children immediately to lock in the marriage. If played correctly, he would have overlooked her oversight and she would have been in a different place entirely since her friend might be more considerate based on her new status as a Mother. I had a feeling she told him she didn't want kids or wanted a long delay that still means no kids in the immediate future. Their sex life probably wasn't so good either. She likely didn't put out too much anyways so when he heard about the story, it gave him an easy out.

She likely lied in her story to make herself feel better. Withholding the truth garners sympathy. It is never the woman's fault.

The guy is a beta. He has money, he asked for a prenup. He secured her before she got desperate (26 vs. 28+). Unless of course she is a 5-6.

I am not surprised by how alpha he acted when he broke things to her. His lawyer would have given him at least a 30 minute lecture on how not to act around her. And since you don't have one let alone two successful businesses without learning how to take advice from people that know more than you, he shouldn't have had issue maintaining frame.

As there are no kids, and it is unlikely she has quit her make-work job it is likely the prenup will hold. Incidentally, her attitude of trying to get it thrown out and count the entire 5 years (rather than just the 2 years of marriage) reminds me of another QQ post some girl wrote a while back where she never even married the guy. She dated him for 6-7 years before he kicked her to the curb and she was looking to get alimony as a girl friend.

The sheer level of entitlement surrounding women and divorce is staggering. I honestly don't know how any attorney can practice in the divorce law. I would rather storm Normandy.

The guy is a beta. He has money, he asked for a prenup. He secured her before she got desperate (26 vs. 28+). Unless of course she is a 5-6.

According to my own scheme:"Beta: either a cute (HB7-8) girl in her Party Years prime, or a hot girl in her Epiphany Years (26-29).Delta: a plain jane (HB4-6) in her Party Years, a cute girl in her Epiphany Years, or a hot girl in her 30s (who is probably divorced and/or with kids already)."

He definitely married her during her late 20s. If she is a knockout, then he'd be a Beta. Otherwise, he's a Delta. (I can't imagine a Gamma initiating a divorce, but I do suspect they tend to be less likely to get married at all than what my schema suggests simply because they are deluded about their own attractiveness.)

I suspect many female-initiated divorces (or relationship breakups, for that matter) occur when the woman underkicks her coverage, i.e., marries a rank lower than what she could have gotten. In this case, since it was male-initiated, that wouldn't apply.

For me its more important when she went exclusive (26) than when he married her (29). The question then becomes what type of non religious woman settles at 26.Either she is a 5-6 and breaks feminist girl code early (she who defaults first defaults best). In which case he is a delta.

Or she is a 7-8 and realized she was punching at or above her weight class in which case he is likely a beta

If she were a knockout 9-10, then there is a good chance he is every bit the alpha he is portrayed to be.

@FogeyTrue, but I'm trying to explain some things to noobie lurkers reading this.

For me its more important when she went exclusive (26) than when he married her (29).

@b1baeI understand -- you're calling his rank based on the tail-end of her Party Years, at 26 -- but I disagree.

Men crave sex from high-SMV women, and women crave commitment from high-SMV men. A boyfriend is a man that a woman has extracted commitment from, essentially like a f*ck-buddy for a man. In other words, a chump, as it's only one-way; she reserves the right to receive commitment from other men. This is particularly true if he was her boyfriend for an extended period of time, which he was here. This is why women with boyfriends flirt with men higher in sociosexual rank than the boyfriend, whereas wives don't (unless either they view the marriage in a purely secular manner, essentially as a state-recognized "relationship"; or the marriage is deteriorating).

So her actually marrying him at 29 is the crucial tell here, making him a Delta. (Feel free to explain your theory as to why you'd call his rank based on her age when the relationship started, as opposed to getting engaged or married.)

Maybe I'm naive--or just naive to millenial ways--but I don't think of hedonism as a normal stage of youthful development. And neither are threesomes just in the normal wild flings of youth. Playing silly pranks, getting drunk and singing bad karaoke, getting your nose pierced and wishing you hadn't--yes. But sex orgies? Sorry. Not normal. I don't blame this man.

I thought Betas were the ones that sluts married after swiving Alphas. Where does a Delta and a Gamma come in?

And are there Epsilons? How come homosexuals get to jump all the way ahead to Lambda?

Also, I understand how that there is some kind of game plan you can follow to become an Alpha, but is there one you can follow to become a different letter entirely? Like, what if I want to become an Omicron? (Or is that already taken?)

...Wait, I just realized...even by asking that question, I identified myself as some different kind of letter already, right? What's the letter for someone who wants to be an Omicron, but can't be because she already asked about how to do it, which makes her rank lower?

And is it better or worse to backward or forward in the alphabet? It seems like "alpha" is better, but then some people say it's actually better to be an Omega or a Sigma or an Epsilon, so is it all just random which letter is better, or is there some kind of weighting system?

"Once a gambler, always a gambler. Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic. Once a player, always a player. Once a slut, always a slut. It's about the internal wiring, not the external actions. Even when one gets one's behavior under control, the wiring is still there. [you really believe that as a Christian - your past defines you? So Moses - murderer- always a murderer? David - adulterer, murderer, always adulterer, murderer - Saul/Paul - murderer always murderer]

And if the reformed slut does marry under false pretenses, she's a con artist, and she should be no more surprised when the man she conned no more wants to continue the marriage than Bernie Madoff's victims wanted to continue their investments with him." [this point I agree with - if she had truly reformed, then she would have told her husband BEFORE they got married - this is the crux of why he is divorcing her - it was a bait and switch]

The thing I don't get about the manosphere and in particular, Rollo's post and many others like it, is the idolatry of sex - specifically sex with virginal, 20-something, thin white women. It is the holy grail of the manosphere. If you get the grail, you win in life. Really? That's what we, as men, have to look forward to define our existence? Rollo's post explicitly denigrates the husband's sexual experience with his wife and elevates the threesome experience. So that's the substance of their marriage. No, the substance of their marriage was based on trust and she violated it by lying to him about her past. It has less to do with the sex act and more about the foundations of a relationship. Sex is only meaningful because of relationship based on intimacy, trust, and shared experience. Let's not put the cart before the horse.

The thing I don't get about the manosphere and in particular, Rollo's post and many others like it, is the idolatry of sex - specifically sex with virginal, 20-something, thin white women. It is the holy grail of the manosphere.

If you're not trolling, and that's really all you get out of Rollo's writings and sites like this one, then I'd suggest that you're not up to the level of discourse here.

Student in Blue, that's different--there is significantly more ambiguity possible in herbological metaphors than in the employment of the Greek alphabet for purposes of establishing hierarchical terms which are meant to be used to sort men into different categories. Jesus did the latter.

An amazing testimony on a spell caster who brought my wife back to me.. My name is Andy Sowers,i live in Australia,and I'm happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife.so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce.she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she didn't love me anymore.So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife.So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.{benedictsolutioncentre@yahoo.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who didn't call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster DR benedict. So.So,if you are in a similar problem or any kind of problems you can also contact him via his email(benedictsolutioncentre@yahoo.com}he is the solution to all your problems and predicaments in life.his email again is{benedictsolutioncentre@yahoo.com}.

HE ALSO SPECIALIZE IN THE THE FOLLOWING PROBLEMS;

(1) If you want your ex back.(2) If you want to be promoted in your office.(3) If you want a child.(4) If you want to be rich.(5) if you have any sickness like ( H I V/AIDS ),(CANCER) or any sickness(6) if you are deaf and blind and you want to see and hear again.

once again make sure you contact him if you have any problem he will help you. his email address is(benedictsolutioncentre@yahoo.com}

my name is pascal from New zealand, am here to share this testimony on how me and my wife was able to be come parents. we tried for so many years to become parents but there was no success of child bearing. We went to different hospitals but they keep saying the same thing that i was the problem and my wife was perfectly okay. One day i decided to try traditional and spiritual help, i contacted a man who i came across on the internet called [DR ODOGUN] of solutioncenter1121@outlook.com i ask him for help and he told me that i was the cause of my wife inability to bear a child. I became more confuse and worried and at this time my wife was making moves for a divorce. I told the man everything and he decided to help me, he told me he is going to help me by either casting a spell or given me traditional medicine to drink, that i should decide on which one to take. At the end of the day i choose the spell casting because i wanted my wife to see it as a miracle because she was a strong christian. I did all he ask me to do and i got all the results i needed without my wife knowing and today am a father. Thanks to DR ODOGUN i will forever be grateful sir.

Hello everyone i can safely say that with my experience with several spell casters there is non as real,powerful and kind hearted as Dr Zadson whom i saw his email on a blog and contacted him as my husband grew so unfaithful to the point of bringing different girls to our home when am away i waas deeply pained and thought of the best possible solution to this. I contacted Dr Zadson and he told me all the processes to be done to achieve results and i believed in him. Believe you me my husband in less than a week he turned a new leaf i was really amazed at such tremendous power and its been glorious ever since. If you happen to find your self in such condition or in need of a powerful and real spell caster email Dr Zadson on ( eduduzadsontemple@yahoo.com ) and await a new dawn of things.

An amazing testimony on a spell caster who brought my wife back to me.. My name is Kent,i live in Texas,and I'm happily married to a lovely and caring wife,with two kids.A very big problem occurred in my family seven months ago,between me and my wife.so terrible that she took the case to court for a divorce.she said that she never wanted to stay with me again,and that she didn't love me anymore.So she packed out of my house and made me and my children passed through severe pain. I tried all my possible means to get her back,after much begging,but all to no avail.and she confirmed it that she has made her decision,and she never wanted to see me again. So on one evening,as i was coming back from work,i met an old friend of mine who asked of my wife.So i explained every thing to her,so she told me that the only way i can get my wife back,is to visit a spell caster,because it has really worked for her too.So i never believed in spell,but i had no other choice,than to follow her advice. Then she gave me the email address of the spell caster whom she visited.{spellc8@gmail.com}. So the next morning,i sent a mail to the address she gave to me,and the spell caster assured me that i will get my wife back the next day.What an amazing statement!! I never believed,so he spoke with me,and told me everything that i need to do. Then the next morning, So surprisingly, my wife who didn't call me for the past seven {7}months,gave me a call to inform me that she was coming back.So Amazing!! So that was how she came back that same day,with lots of love and joy,and she apologized for her mistake,and for the pain she caused me and my children. Then from that day,our relationship was now stronger than how it were before,by the help of a spell caster DR benedict. So.So,if you are in a similar problem or any kind of problems you can also contact him via his email(spellc8@gmail.com}he is the solution to all your problems and predicaments in life.his email again is{spellc8@gmail.com}.

HE ALSO SPECIALIZE IN THE THE FOLLOWING PROBLEMS;

(1) If you want your ex back.(2) If you want to be promoted in your office.(3) If you want a child.(4) if you have any sickness like ( H I V/AIDS ),(CANCER) or any sickness(5) if you are deaf and blind and you want to see and hear again.

once again make sure you contact him if you have any problem he will help you. his email address is(spellc8@gmail.com}

My name is Mary, and I base in CALIFORNIA, USA…My life is back!!! After 5 months of Broken marriage, my husband left me with two kids . I felt like my life was about to end i almost committed suicide, i was emotionally down for a very long time. Thanks to a spell caster called DR. Ade which i met online. On one faithful day, as I was browsing through the internet,Some people testified that he brought their Ex lover back, some testified that he restores womb,cure cancer,and other sickness, some testified that he can cast a spell to stop divorce and so on. i also come across one particular testimony,it was about a woman called Marie ,she testified about how he brought back her Ex lover in less than 2 days,he is the answer to your problem.here's his contact:Email on adespelltemple@gmail.com,OR call his mobile number +2347057375409

In our simple life, love plays a very specific role.Now we are able to make your love life healthy and it has no space for any type trouble. These all are possible with the help of AGBAZARA TEMPLE OF SOLUTION. He helped me cast a spell that brought my long lost lover back withing 48hours who left me for another woman. you can also contact him on (agbazara@gmail.com) or call him on +2348104102662 and be happy forever like am now with his experience.