October 12, 2012

Meade and I were just having a conversation, not about politics. About baseball, actually. I was expressing an idea I had. (It doesn't matter what my idea was, but in case your curiosity is distracting, my idea was that to enjoy baseball, you need to watch the game in real time, with the slow parts left in, and once you start fast-forwarding to the parts that look exciting, it ruins the experience, and you might as well just read a report of what happened.) Meade keeps scoffing and laughing really annoyingly, until I get the joke that he's doing his Joe Biden imitation.... at which point I give him the finger. Suddenly, I realize that is the normal reaction to Biden's antics. Give him the finger.

There are other reactions when someone acts like that, laughing in your face, rolling their eyes, smirking, every time you're trying to say something. It's incredibly antagonizing! In real life, what do you do? There are different reactions, depending on how much of a friendship you have and how much you know about this person's propensity toward physical violence and whether you have a good escape route.

But sometimes you're in a situation where you must maintain your demeanor, despite the other guy's antagonism. For example, in a job interview or a discussion with your boss or maybe when you were a kid and your father was exerting his authority. The VP debate is also, obviously, one of those situations. Imagine if Ryan had given Biden the finger? Ryan is a young man, he had to have been thinking of the various reactions that you'd use in an ordinary social situation, even as he rejected each one and told himself that he had to keep acting as if Biden were not behaving inappropriately.

And what was going through Biden's head? (♪♫What goes on in Biden's brain?♪♫) Did the old man lose control of his bodily functions? Let's assume he had a strategy and was deliberately annoying, distracting, bullying, and rude. Why would he adopt such a strategy? Has he no self-respect? Maybe he's okay with his longstanding "Old Joe" reputation. He's a clown. A gaffe machine. So what? Everyone already thinks that. Flip it! Weaponize clownery. If it was a plan, it was a plan to provoke Ryan. What if Ryan suddenly gave him the finger? Where's your choir boy now, Ryanistas?

I think Biden's behavior put Ryan in a difficult position. THere really is nothing he could do about it. Any attempt to counter-act Biden would be seen as being disrepectful to the Vice President.

In that sense there is no way that Ryan could really win the debate.

The whole purpose of Biden's behavior was to get Ryan to make a mistake and thus make Ryan look small and therefore unqualified to be VP. However, that did not happen. Ryan was considered weakest in Foreign POlicy, which dominated the debate, yet Ryan appeared to be serious and competent.

This is why Biden lost, because Ryan passed the threshhold of being a legitimate contender for the office.

So now that the Debates have shown we have to competent and worthy candidates for President in Romney and VP in Ryan, what is left for Obama to run on? Why should Obama be re-elected? Why would you vote for four more years of the Obama economy.

An appropriate infantile response; which I can recall observing in my long ago college days, was "Make it Maggot".

One from my old Army drill sergeant's repertoire is "Did your mama raise any idiots". That was a favorite of Drill Sergeant Bobby Jean Rowlands, the meanest man ever to roll out of the Oklahoma hills. A good drill sergeant though.

But you have to cut Slow Joe some slack--he's never had too firm a connection between his brain and his mouth.

It a challenge to keep a straight face when the other spins so much "malarkey," would you rather Biden look down or not address the issue as Obama did? But I think the telling moment in the debate came when they were asked to explain how their religion informed their lives. Biden seemed introspective and sincere, but not willing to turn his personal belief into public policy--in contrast to Ryan seems to find religion an ideology that should become public policy, and again he seemed devoid, in spite of all his little stories, of humility and compassion.

Well, it's a ripoff from that liberal presidental movie, The American President, but I would have looked at him and said, "Joe, this is important stuff. These are serious times. And from just looking and listening to you tonight I do not see a serious man. Which isn't surprising because your entire administration is not serious. About our economy. About the threat to our nation's security. About anything. And, frankly, I think the American people deserve better."

If someone in my classroom or office acted like Biden I would have insisted that they stop acting like a self-centered child and allow everyone to speak without interruption.

But this was a VP debate. He was trying to accomplish something (I assume)and I admire that he wasn't concerned with decorum or his personal appearance while striving for it. I want my elected officials pulling out all the stops when advocating for America's interests. Ditto if Romney had been cheating. I want a president who disregards debate rules to get the job done.

Now whether Biden's assessment of America's interests is wise or unwise is a matter for debate.

"Do you know the unemployment in Scranton?" Ryan asked. Biden went ballistic. That undercut Biden's attempt to sound either like an expert or that Obama administration had regular folk as a priority.

Second, was Ryan's jab about Biden's gaffe. Shut Biden down right away and turned the conversation.

Ryan could have done more of that. Factual jabs that undercut Biden's credibility. Ryan should have gone straight at the "they didn't ask for more security" issue.

At issue in many cases was real lies.

The charge "they're lying!" is now applied to mean mere policy disagreement and interpretation. That's the only basis Ryan and others are charged with lying, for having a different approach to governing and daring to say it works, and their policy proposals would work. It's a lie because Democrats see such assertions as false, not because they are inherently lies.

But Biden was telling baldfaced actual lies. The sort that people tell not merely to get out of trouble but when they are so accustomed to making up their own reality they lie even on inconsequential things--like Palin and the death panels.

When Ryan calmly pushed back against, Biden was almost frothing at the mouth. Which means that Ryan could have responded best by goading Biden into more outrageous sorts of behavior.

Both Obama and Biden are vulnerable to losing it when their constructed reality is confronted. They have thin egos, so can be set off.

Anyone wanting to understand the coming fiscal cliff and the failure of Washington to work out an agreement need only look at Biden last night to see why. Biden's behavior was a perfect embodiment of the attitude and actions of the administration for the last four years. And that's why liberals are loving it so much.

Ryan and the GOP can't be expected to negotiate a rational, responsible deal with dishonest, disgusting, nasty, unreasonable assholes who aren't capable of responsible behavior.

It seems to me it was pretty clear that Biden's strategy was a reaction to what the Democrat's perceive as Obama's mistakes in the previous debates; Obama was "too polite", too congenial, and let Romney dominate the conversation with "lies".

So Biden was directed to go out there, feign outrage at Ryan's supposed deceit no matter what he said, and to be aggressive. Occasionally, that tactic worked. The problem derives, when you consider this is Biden, and he's the political equivalent of the loud drunk guy at the wedding at the best of times. He went overboard.

Obviously Ryan was aware of all Biden's interruptions, but when he was speaking I don't know that he was fully aware of Biden's eye-rolling, grimacing, scowling, chuckling, head shaking, looking up at the ceiling, and other Tourette's type activity.

Let's assume he had a strategy and was deliberately annoying, distracting, bullying, and rude. Why would he adopt such a strategy?

Remember that the most prominent MSM Ryan story right before the debate was that Ryan had supposedly gotten "testy" with a reporter (this was even the subject of an Althouse post). Of course, that characterization was bullshit. But the media ran with it anyway.

The Dems/MSM ain't subtle when they telegraph and coordinate their memes.

Almost any mortal human being subjected to Biden's behavior would've gotten "testy." The fact that Ryan maintained total composure throughout-- didn't give Biden even an iota of what Biden probably sought to provoke-- was admirable, and IMO a victory in itself.

"Republicans really need to stop thinking it's rude to call them on their lies."

I know! As I wrote about extensively in my first post of the day, Ryan should have nailed Biden when he lied about the intelligence they had about the attack in Libya:

"RADDATZ: What were you first told about the attack? Why — why were people talking about protests? When people in the consulate first saw armed men attacking with guns, there were no protesters. Why did that go on (inaudible)?...

"BIDEN: Because that was exactly what we were told by the intelligence community. The intelligence community told us that."

I said: That is, he denies that the administration made up the video story. He blames the intelligence community. How did the intelligence community make up something so bizarre? Public protests that didn't take place?"

"BIDEN: As they learned more facts about exactly what happened, they changed their assessment."

I said: "But why would they make an assessment that included the report of vivid public events that didn't happen? That's unbelievable on its face. Malarkey!"

"BIDEN: Well, we weren’t told they wanted more security there. We did not know they wanted more security again. And by the way, at the time we were told exactly — we said exactly what the intelligence community told us that they knew. That was the assessment. And as the intelligence community changed their view, we made it clear they changed their view."

I said: "And that is the lie of the evening! How can that not be a lie?... Ryan should have hit Biden hard on his denial that there were requests for more security. Biden just lied, and he's already accused you of lying."

Too bad Ryan didn't go for the jugular right then. He went positive, but he should have nailed Biden first.

Althouse, you're right about watching baseball. Kudos. It's actually the beauty of the sport. And I agree with rhhardin "Baseball is best enjoyed on the radio while you're doing something else." I prefer baseball on the radio to TV.

Biden is a clown. It may pump up the base, which tells you all you need about liberals. Joe fucking Biden being a clown is a motivator?

Losers. The VEEP debate is another win for the GOp and another nail in Obama's coffin.

If I had been watching the two of you I would have been turned off by your giving him the finger. CBS got quickly to the truth that Romney didn't care about the 47%, fact not talking point, so I went to Fox news which went to local stations where a professor at SMU and a couple of debate students were interviewed about the debate. The faculty guy said that undecideds were turned off by conflict. In that case respect and lack of expressed emotion was the better policy for that group. The media has to come back and say, as they may be, that you are in conflict with the way you perceive the debate to counter the undecideds tendency then to see Ryan more favorably.

Apparently the Democrats believe being rude, dismissive and obnoxious plays well with America.

I think this adolescent behavior plays extremely well with his base, you know those people who consider themselves morally and intellectually superior.

We had Obama who was petulant and ill-prepared, and Biden who was flat out rude.

However, the media is 100% behind him, and are fact checking every claim by Ryan because the tactic is that Romney and Ryan are liars. Of course they are ignoring Biden's lies on Benghazi and ignoring the whole Obama economic plan is stick the rich, with no detail or plan in fact, at all.

Both Biden and Alpha evoked Palin. I find that amazing that both their minds reach for that perfectly irrelevant bit, that straw simulacrum they created. Their innate Alinsky impulses surface like that without ever actually reading him. It's a peek into the distortion field that both think that's trump card level damaging.

The impulse that Biden indulged to interrupt, I get this all the time in ordinary conversation and it is infuriating. Ryan's message is so damaging to Biden's reality that Biden cannot even allow it to be uttered. Biden contradicts as Ryan is speaking. He can't hear it. He can't allow anyone to hear it. He must stop it. Watch how many times that happens on Fox when their house liberals are debating. They cannot stand to hear the other side. They all do that. They need to be told to shut up. Over and over and over.

"Don't contradict me while I'm speaking, Stupid, and stop making stupid faces while I'm speaking, Stupid, or people will begin to think you're closed uncommunicable and stupid, Stupid.

I predicted Smilin' Joe's behavior to my wife the night before the debate. With Obama polling worse than a spastic stripper, it was obvious that the president's Beta male performance needed to be countered ASAP. They were hoping to instigate an inappropriate response from Ryan. Happily, he did not rise to the bait.I love seeing folks like Alfalfa shouting to the other passengers on the SS Titanic Ego that all is well as they push their way into the lifeboats.

"roesch/voltaire said...It a challenge to keep a straight face when the other spins so much "malarkey," would you rather Biden look down or not address the issue as Obama did? But I think the telling moment in the debate came when they were asked to explain how their religion informed their lives. Biden seemed introspective and sincere, but not willing to turn his personal belief into public policy--in contrast to Ryan seems to find religion an ideology that should become public policy, and again he seemed devoid, in spite of all his little stories, of humility and compassion."

When people in negotiations resort to those kinds of facial histrionics then you know you are winning. Your lawyers may applaud you afterwards but when they get by themselves they will do the eye rolling. Serious people do not behave that way even if they are anxious to appear to be animated or passionate or even winning. A serious person does not smirk at his opponent. A serious person listens carefully and responds to what has been said as opposed to clowning. It was appalling to see a grown man, an old man, behave that way. It was embarrassing.

Unfortunately it was typical of progressive discussion: sarcasm, one liners, ad hominem, short on numbers, facts.

What's with all the asshole leftists using a picture of Paul Ryan as their Blogger Avatar? I know it's supposed to be sarcasm, but I think it's deeper than that... a manifestation of a unacknowledged sexual response to the young, handsome, athletic man.

I especially like the one where Ryan has a long, long nose photoshopped onto his face... polymorphous perversity! Hallo Doktor Freud!

Kind of like the friendly cop that gets the recording of the confession

I think this is very likely. Let Joe speak, let him laugh and gaffe.

The commercial that came out right away showed the RNC was looking for just that.

Now we have Biden saying something demonstrably (rather than ideologically) false, just in time for the next Presidential debate on foreign policy. What Ryan didn't do in nailing Biden on Libya, Romney can do that much more effectively, putting Obama on the defensive with everything Biden said.

"Baseball is best enjoyed on the radio while you're doing something else."

I agree. The radio announcers are doing something much different from what the TV announcers do, and it's better spoken word. You can watch the TV baseball with the sound off. (As we often do at Meadhouse, where we sit together reading iPads.)

You can picture everything in your head when you hear the radio announcers. The background sounds are nice too. Very pleasant to drive cross-country and hear the game on the car radio.

"I managed not to groan aloud. Not missing a beat, Reagan animatedly launched into the story that he must have told hundreds of times about his stint as a Chicago Cubs announcer for an Iowa radio station when he had to re-create road trip games by following the action via ticker tape. During one game, the wire went dead just as Reagan said the pitch was coming to the plate. The rest of the conversation was his account of buying time by having the batter fouling off pitches. "I did set a world record for successive fouls," Reagan would say in recounting the tale. (The punch line to the story was that when the wire came back to life, it turned out the batter had popped out on the first pitch.)"

I'm sorry, I guess I'm confused. Did Joe Biden debate someone last night? I mean, I saw some jackhole acting nutty on TV with Paul Ryan last night, but I couldn't understand what Gary Busey was doing there on stage. (It's the teeth, man.)

Ann, one only needs to look at the way people respond in these comments to see how they handle deliberate and incidentally absurd provocations in a situation where they are operating with a large audience of onlookers.

But, do you actually think that Biden could maintain such a false front? That it could possibly be a finely controlled act? How much of Biden's public persona would you then suspect of being an artificial construction?

All people fail to be entirely honest and blunt with every audience, but to suspect someone of consistently presenting a manufactured image suggests something about how you see people generally.

Ann, you are the only person I have seen to specifically call out the point where Biden was barking at Raddatz. That would not likely be part of a planned performance to provoke Ryan. It fully conveyed Biden's state of mind and the kind of person he feels comfortable being in front of the public.

It seems to me it was pretty clear that Biden's strategy was a reaction to what the Democrat's perceive as Obama's mistakes in the previous debates

This, too. But what a miscalculation.

The Obama/Biden camp apparently took this lesson from the Romney/Obama debate: Romney was the alpha to Obama's beta. So I'm sure they sent Biden in with specific instructions to play the alpha role this time, to dominate.

But "alpha" and "asshole" are very different things. Romney dominated the previous debate, but he was unfailingly polite, respectful, likable, exuded competence and gravitas.

Whereas Biden was just an asshole. His attempt at "dominance" was as creepy and offputting (in a different way) as Gore's attempt at "dominance" when he invaded Bush's personal space (a clip that Althouse recently posted here). That's not "alpha" behavior. That's trying too hard, overcompensating, to come off as the alpha-- but just coming off as the asshole in the room.

I think many people watching that bizarre performance had a visceral reaction to it, a feeling of repulsion. Especially (but not just) women. That's what people are talking about at breakfast tables and water coolers-- Biden's behavior, not his talking points.

Perhaps Ryan kept calm by thinking he was letting Biden put out more and more material that would be used against him. Kind of like the friendly cop that gets the recording of the confession.

I think that may have been part of it.

I think Ryan and his prep team knew that Biden had to go on the offensive to make up ground, and they most have known that Biden would most likely get passionate and angry and verbose. They decided on a strategy of calm, measured responses. Let the other guy work himself up into a frenzy, then after the fact you can use his own words against him. Debates are always mined for clips, especially in the youtube age.

"If I had been watching the two of you I would have been turned off by your giving him the finger."

If you were there, everything would have been completely different. Don't pretend to know the vibe between a husband and wife. You need to feel the spirit of the interaction, but if you'd been here, the spirit would have been different.

As someone said at Ace's place, you can see what it must have been like for Congress to try to negotiate with this White House. You've got a president who's sullenly uncommunicative and a vice president who alternates between laughing and attacking.

Another commenter said it was like watching a son try to take the car keys away from his senile father, and the mother just tries to find something they can agree on.

Depends on the setting. In that setting, no finger, that's Obama's specialty. I would have attempted an "therapeutic moment" where I would have addressed Biden's rudeness and inappropriate laughter as a sign of mental illness/distress. Ryan did this a little, but I would have done it further and more often.

"V-P Biden seems to think the situation in Syria/killing of an ambassador/economic crisis is humorous, but I don't..."

Ann's comment calling Biden a "bully" is also a laugh. It's a fricking debate! The idea is not to go in there and lay down, it's to advance your point and your arguments and to dismantle your opponents. Which Joe Biden did very well.

What's with all the asshole leftists using a picture of Paul Ryan as their Blogger Avatar? I know it's supposed to be sarcasm, but I think it's deeper than that... a manifestation of a unacknowledged sexual response to the young, handsome, athletic man.

Nah that's your beat, man. No pun intended.

Pretty easy to tell who won the debate though, just by the level of incessant whining from the right. Like little fucking children.

Um, According to publicly available salary data at the website Legistorm, Pelosi’s female employees earned an average annual salary of $96,394 in fiscal year 2011. Male employees earned $123,000 on average, a difference of 27.6 percent.

Um, Female employees in the Obama White House make considerably less than their male colleagues, records show.

According to the 2011 annual report on White House staff, female employees earned a median annual salary of $60,000, which was about 18 percent less than the median salary for male employees ($71,000).

You are a silly parody.

PS: That idiotic "fair pay act" is so effective you ignorants are calling for more legislation.

It's pretty much a given that conservatives, despite being portrayed as uncivil, are largely the civil ones and the liberals who feign tolerance come across las lying blowhards with no sense of decorum. Thats true of Biden and alpha liberal. Who has yet, by the way addressed any of the outright lies bide was caught on already about things like the embassy bombings and Ian and Iraq/Afghanistan.

I feel sorry for Smilin' Joe. He's like the alcoholic who hangs around the saloon hoping someone will spot him a drink...and is willing to drink the spitoon dry for the promise of a free beer.

If Biden actually 'won' this debate, then I would expect that the Obama campaign would stop hiding him from the press as they have been doing for the past six months.... yet somehow I just don't see Smiley making the Sunday news shows to talk about his 'win'.Does someone expect otherwise?

Ryan should've stopped the debate and inquired into Smiley's health."My God, Joe, I think you are having a stroke!"Or sentiments to that effect.

Re: abortion. I thought it was an instructive exchange. As Fr. Roch Kereszty says in Catholic theology all people are presumed to be informed by the Holy Spirit of right and wrong. I suppose Judge whoever thought he had found right in the penumbra. So maybe he brought up a 'heresy' that is really true, but Ryan represented that people in a democracy should be given the right to find the truth and they should have the right to make laws even if in this point they, the people, are in error.

I still wonder what Ann thinks lipstick has to do with homosexuality. That's curious. The gays I know don't sport lipstick. And I don't think either Ryan or Sarah Palin or homosexuals, so WTF, Ann?

And, Biden just nailed the zombie eye granny-starver from Janesville on the stimulus, pointing out that Ryan sent a letter asking for the stimulus money he had opposed, saying it would help with jobs and the economy.

It reminded me of how I imagine a debate between Batman and the Joker. The muscular Dark Knight speaking softly and seriously but on some level not really connecting with ordinary people - frustratingly overly detailed and in the weeds. The garish Joker rudely mocking with exaggerated body movements and facial expressions, but with his deeper understanding of human nature, distressingly appearing to connect.

Ann's comment calling Biden a "bully" is also a laugh. It's a fricking debate!

A debate is where each side is given time to state its case and rebut the other side within a set framework of rules enforced by the moderator, not shout down the other side like it's a Munich beer hall.

Ann's comment calling Biden a "bully" is also a laugh. It's a fricking debate! The idea is not to go in there and lay down, it's to advance your point and your arguments and to dismantle your opponents. Which Joe Biden did very well."

Durr derp. The only thing Joe "The Langolier" Biden did was reveal himself as a prevaricating, uninformed a-hole.

Biden was over the top, but he was reacting to Ryan's lies, like the times Ryan said he wanted bipartisanship, what a bald faced lie that was, worthy of a big guffaw. How many times did Republicans filibuster?

"How is this joke either homophobic or sexist? It is a clever play on Palin's own joke about lipstick."

Okay. I'll answer the question. The line invites us to picture lipstick on Paul Ryan, and that image is meant to degrade him. Feminizing a man is used as a disparagement, and the belief that it works as a disparagement is built on a foundation of thinking that women and feminine-seeming men (i.e., a bad stereotype of gay men) are lesser human beings that manly men.

I anticipate that you'll retort that the line doesn't invite us to picture the lipstickless one wearing lipstick, but it does. What's the difference between a soccer mom and a pit bull/lipstick is funny because you picture a pit bull with lipstick and the idea is that's a soccer mom. It's very silly. And as Sarah Palin told the joke, it was self-deprecating. Self-deprecating is often a sign of good humor.

Deprecating others is a different matter. That's what Pierce's joke does. He deprecates by saying: Picture Ryan with lipstick on and he's the same as Sarah Palin, so there's the step where you think about whether the lipsticked Ryan would seem like Palin and you're supposed to find that funny.

It's mean-spirited funny. You're supposed to begin by thinking ill of Palin. That's just assumed. And then Pierce wants you to hate Ryan like you hate Palin.

It's all very ugly. And Pierce is so sure his ugliness is for the good cause that he doesn't see that it's leveraged on sexism and homophobia.

It seems to me it was pretty clear that Biden's strategy was a reaction to what the Democrat's perceive as Obama's mistakes in the previous debates; Obama was "too polite", too congenial, and let Romney dominate the conversation with "lies".

One advantage Ryan had was that Biden's behavior was predictable. He obviously prepared with this in mind and was able to ignore the circus distractions and stay on topic. Not sure if I could have done that, I probably would have flipped the bird or worse. But I am not running for VP. Bravo to Ryan for staying level headed and articulate despite the whirlwind spinning around him. He found the calm in the storm and stuck with it. Definately VP material.

"Baseball is best enjoyed on the radio while you're doing something else."

I agree. The radio announcers are doing something much different from what the TV announcers do, and it's better spoken word. You can watch the TV baseball with the sound off. (As we often do at Meadhouse, where we sit together reading iPads.)"

Regular season, yes.

Playoff baseball? No.

Pitch location and movement, pitcher mechanics, catcher location, batter stance? None of them come through quickly or accurately on radio, but they do TV.

How would I have reacted to Joe Biden? I, unfortunately, do not have an even temper. If a patient or a patient's relative acted that way in one of my exam rooms, I would have dismissed him from the room and from my practice. If I were in a public debate, I would probably lose my cool and say something terrible. I must say, I admire Paul Ryan for being as calm as he was, but he's a Congressman. He's used to working with blowhard fools.

Well, thanks for the answer, Ann. And, yes, you're right, I don't think it causes us to imagine Ryan with Lipstick. Really, I don't want to imagine that! I did not until you mentioned it.

This is funny because it ties Ryan to Palin, a new association in the political zeitgeist.

Sometimes a joke is just a joke. You're explanation is rather tortured (but, hey, you are pro-torture).

However, I do agree that there exists a tendency to try to feminize men in politics. The thing is, that's a stock trade of the right wing against Democrats. they call Dems "girly men," etc. You have done that a few times, yourself, actually.

Another sports analogy: This debate was a political equivalent to an Iron Man Triathlon - 1. a liberal media person is the "impartial moderator" and unfairly cuts off the Republican points 2. the Vice president of the United States acts like a teen class trouble maker trying to knock a teacher off his game and 3. it's all on a national television during a crucial election. I think Ryan did well in that he kept his poise, kept making points and gave a good final summary. Obama would have been better all his life if he had had some seasoning like this.

Joe Biden is one heartbeat from being president. Given is ranting, manical laughter and general behavior, does anyone think Biden would be a good president? I'm convinced Obama selected Biden as life and impeachment insurance. I've seen smarter doorknobs than Biden.

As a supporter of Romney this election, I am really hoping the Obama campaign thinks this debate "proves" Obama should be as aggressive and rude towards Romney as Biden was towards Ryan--because that would lead to a blowout loss for Obama.

"Biden was over the top, but he was reacting to Ryan's lies, like the times Ryan said he wanted bipartisanship, what a bald faced lie that was, worthy of a big guffaw. How many times did Republicans filibuster?"

1. Biden came out of the gate acting like a rude, condescending doofus, so it obviously was not in response to anything Ryan said. He had his marching orders to be tough and this is his weird version of tough.

2. Can you please articulate what lies Ryan told? Even one would be nice. And if the bipartisanship thing is all you've got, then, well, you have nothing.

Please know I don't mean any of this personally. I know how sensitive you are to offense.

Joe Biden is one heartbeat from being president. Given is ranting, manical laughter and general behavior, does anyone think Biden would be a good president? I'm convinced Obama selected Biden as life and impeachment insurance. I've seen smarter doorknobs than Biden.

How about the lie that Biden made about Supreme Court justices being offered up by dems as being open minded. Ryan asked him, but never got an answer "is there no litmus test"? So, is it bidens argument that the Supreme Court nominees being offered up by dems will be open minded about the whole abortion question? Tat they could go either way on it?That epitomizes the lefts thinking on open minded ness. Xit doesn't really mean what they think it does. Being open minded means agreeing with the left's train of thought, not actually being open minded.I feel like citing inigo Montoya "you keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

Easy answer to Joe's behavior: Like Obama, he's had lifetime of people positively reinforcing that behavior. He's been elected and re-elected, time after time, with no serious opposition and is now VP. He's appeared in public too many times to count and is always praised by the media, as he is being today. Why wouldn't he think, "Hey, people must love me, including my demeanor!"?

Has 49er tix for 30 years. I always stated that I should've bought SF Giants tix instead because baseball is waaaay better in person and football is waaay better on TV.Baseball on radio is the ultimate. My honey-do productivity trebles when baseball season starts.

I wonder if we can determine the exact moment in the debate when Smilin' Joe's left arm went numb?

By most accounts, Slow Joe in private life is a genuinely nice, reasonably intelligent guy, but he has never been able to control his mouth. Hence, he frequently comes off as an affable dumbshit. He's been very successful at using his Slow Joe persona to cover his gaffes--don't take that gaffe too seriously, that's just Uncle Joe--sure he seems like a moron, but deep down he's a good guy from Scranton, etc.

His problem last night was that he came across as an asshole--the affability was gone. No longer was he the nice old doofus; he became the Joker.

I suspect that early on, Ryan was governed by his normal self discipline and good manners. As the debate progressed, his expression relaxed a bit. You could sense mild amusement.

He knew the old fool was way over the line, and he simply gave him enough rope to hang himself.

Expect Slow Joe to become Shouting Joe for the rest of the campaign--especially as their numbers continue to slide.

I expect, near the end, the old Slow Joe might return. The old dumbass will certainly want his Senate seat back.

If you reply to them in kind you're an "angry white man," which of course disqualifies you.

Inga, in particular, does little else. She hurls awful accusations against other people, then curls up in the fetal position and cries like a baby and demands that the PC police be summoned to protect her.

He was being a heckler and he was trying to provoke Ryan into doing something stupid that they could use in an ad. Ryan did the best that he could considering he had a moderator that allowed Biden to do what he wanted.

It was a personality on full display, much more than any plan. When Biden gets cranked up, there's no controlling what happens next. If there was any plan last night, it was to get him cranked up. He was, and the predictable result followed: what you saw is what he is.

It certainly wasn't part of the plan for Biden to peddle some real whoppers about Benghazi. If there is any story going forward (other than how folks reacted to Biden), that will be it. Obama won't be so reckless (in part because his self-image is that buffoonery is way, way beneath him), and won't be able to defend what Biden said. I expect we'll be hearing a lot more on that subject in the next two debates.

Biden was over the top, but he was reacting to Ryan's lies, like the times Ryan said he wanted bipartisanship, what a bald faced lie that was, worthy of a big guffaw. How many times did Republicans filibuster?

here's a lesson for you. If you act like over the top demagogic, rude, assholes you shouldn't expect bipartisanship. Nor are you actually trying to engage in bipartisanship yourself.That you would acknowledge the point about him being over the top but then guffaw at the lack of bipartisanship really says more about your own bias than about republicans lack of bipartisanship.

There are two types of people in the world, those who have been hit in the face and those who have not. Biden is clearly in the second group. Even a mild beating about the head and shoulders can cause you to see the world differently.

Ann said: "they love the bully, when the bully is on their side. They're just so in love with themselves that they don't see it."

I would add that they seem to like assuming "powerful" psuedonyms under which to make their internet tough guy statements(i.e., "Voltaire", "Alpha", "TWM" ("The Wonderful Me"?). They are clearly in my second grouping above.

I guess we've reassigned the meaning of the word "clever". When did that happen? How in any way is it particularly clever? Because it uses Palin's name? That's a pretty low standard but no surprise once you listen to scores of lame comedians thinking the bar really is that low.

"This is funny because it ties Ryan to Palin, a new association in the political zeitgeist."

How does it "tie" Ryan to Palin? Because you put their names in the same sentence? Seriously? See my comment above. Using Sarah Palin's name in a sentence is not "clever", ipso facto. You're going to have to work a lot harder than that. What is the association? Where's the beef? Why is your humor so exceedingly lame? Are you really that pathetic?

garage mahal said... Pretty easy to tell who won the debate though, just by the level of incessant whining from the right. Like little fucking children.

I see garage's meltdown has already started. Particularly amusing is his criticism of people of good will discussing the issue, while his only contribution in years has been insults and whines. Which is childish?

I can't wait until the 7th. Maybe we'll get lucky and he'll pop a blood vessel and be unable to type.

Inga said...Ryan: Obama will reduce our Navy to the smallest it has been since before World War I.

Lie.

BRAC is an ongoing effort to close unneeded bases, ports, and airfields.

The Navy left San Francisco, in part due to local opposition from Democratics and leftists. Imagine that--the finest natural deep water port, centrally located, off limits because of uppity liberals like yourself.

Romney: I think, I wouldn’t want to over-concentrate on Bin Laden. He’s one of many, many people who are involved in this global Jihadist effort.

He’s by no means the only leader. It’s a very diverse group – Hamas, Hezbollah, al-Qaeda, Muslim Brotherhood and of course different names throughout the world.

It’s not worth moving heaven and earth and spending billions of dollars just trying to catch one person. It is worth fashioning and executing an effective strategy to defeat global, violent Jihad and I have a plan for doing that.

and this has been borne out by events since Osama has died? Still fighting the Taliban in Afganistan despite OBL being dead. Still have our embassies attacked despite ONPBL being dead. Still dealing with Iran and containment despite OBL being dead. still dealing with global jihad in North Africa, and Al Qaeda, despite OL being dead.

When clearly, the point made by Romney was a perfectly valid and sensual argument.

Biden is fundamentally dishonest on what Romneys positions even are, but not the degree to which he will demagogue him over this policy position, as if he's arguing that the Romney/Ryan administration wouldn't do anything about OBL at all.

"Ryan said that Obamacare would force religious institutions to provide FREE contraception."

Nope not a lie. Not a full explanation, true, but considering how he got interrupted by both Biden and the moderator I'm surprised he got that out.

Here's what the law says about that:

"Section 2713 of the Public Health Service Act, enacted by the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Public Law 111-148) (the “Obamacare” statute), provides that “A group health plan and a health insurance issuer offering group or individual health insurance coverage shall, at a minimum provide coverage for and shall not impose any cost sharing requirements for— . . . (4) with respect to women, such additional preventive care and screenings . . . as provided for in comprehensive guidelines supported by the Health Resources and Services Administration . ."

Biden was over the top, but he was reacting to Ryan's lies, like the times Ryan said he wanted bipartisanship, what a bald faced lie that was, worthy of a big guffaw. How many times did Republicans filibuster?

here's a lesson for you. If you act like over the top demagogic, rude, assholes you shouldn't expect bipartisanship.

I initially interpreted the bold section as Inga's comment. I almost fell out of my chair thinking she had finally thought of something intelligent to write.

In a five-page letter to the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, dated June 15, Sister Carol Keehan, the president and CEO of the Catholic Health Association (CHA), registered her opposition to the federal law requiring co-pay-free contraception, abortion drugs and sterilization for all private employer health plans.

[..]

Thus, the bishops opposed the "accommodation," expressing "serious moral concerns” in a statement that noted the large number of Catholic institutions that self-insured and thus would be directly responsible for covering the services.

One advantage Ryan had was that Biden's behavior was predictable. He obviously prepared with this in mind and was able to ignore the circus distractions and stay on topic. Not sure if I could have done that, I probably would have flipped the bird or worse. But I am not running for VP. Bravo to Ryan for staying level headed and articulate despite the whirlwind spinning around him. He found the calm in the storm and stuck with it. Definately VP material.

"Ryan said the ACA included an Obamacare "board", that would lead to Medicare cuts every year for seniors.

Lie"

Nope, not a lie. Again not a whole explanation but Biden and his gal Friday didn't let Ryan fully explain.

"Under Section 3403 of the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act,[1] Congress established the Independent Payment Advisory Board, a body composed of 15 members appointed by the President and confirmed by the Senate.[2] The board’s stated responsibility is to develop proposals to reduce the growth of Medicare spending. The Secretary of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) is to implement the board’s recommendations unless Congress enacts an alternative set of proposals that would achieve the same level of Medicare savings. This is the first time Congress has created a special mechanism to impose a hard cap on future Medicare spending."

The board will exist. And it will make cuts that can and probably will threaten seniors.

"However, I do agree that there exists a tendency to try to feminize men in politics. The thing is, that's a stock trade of the right wing against Democrats. they call Dems "girly men," etc. You have done that a few times, yourself, actually."

When it came to health-care and tax reform, nearly everything that came out of Vice President Biden’s mouth was untrue. Here’s an incomplete list:

1. Biden repeated the false talking points — as did moderator Martha Raddatz (!) — about the Romney Medicare plan exposing seniors to higher costs. In fact, the Romney plan is explicitly designed to ensure that seniors are not exposed to any additional costs.

2. Biden repeated the false talking points about Obamacare’s $716 billion in Medicare cuts not being real cuts, because they allegedly don’t cut “benefits.” Indeed, the ratio of Obamacare’s Medicare cuts to “new benefits” is 15 to 1.

3. Biden claimed that Democratic senator Ron Wyden opposes the Wyden-Ryan Medicare reform plan. Wyden opposes the House GOP budget, because it repeals Obamacare and block-grants Medicaid, but rest assured that Wyden still supports the Wyden-Ryan plan. And that plan is actually to the right of Romney’s plan, because Wyden-Ryan contains a hard cap on Medicare spending growth (GDP + 1 percent) whereas Romney’s plan contains no growth cap.

4. Biden claimed that having the government directly negotiate drug prices under Medicare Part D would save taxpayers “$156 billion right off the bat.” In fact, the Congressional Budget Office estimates that such a change “would have a negligible effect on drug spending.”

5. Biden claimed that Paul Ryan’s House budgets would “knock 19 million people off of Medicare.” This is an entirely made-up figure. Not a single person would lose their Medicare coverage under Ryan’s budgets, and not a single person would under Romney’s plan either.

6. Biden repeated the long-debunked claim that Romney seeks a “$5 trillion tax cut,” when in fact Romney’s tax proposal is designed to be revenue-neutral. Furthermore, Biden claimed that there is a study from AEI supporting his claims. “The American Enterprise Institute study [says that] taxes will go up on the middle class,” claimed Biden. There is no such study. Two AEI scholars, Matt Jensen and Alex Brill, have in fact made the opposite case.

And, of course, this is just one area. I commented yesterday on how difficult it is to debate someone like Biden [or Inga for that matter] because the things they say are such a clusterf*** of truth mixed in with lies mixed in with nonsense. AA does a nice morning after job of unpacking some of it; on you feet, before the nation on TV, not so easy.

Jay, you are such a piece of shit. You're everyting that's wrong with this blog, which used sometimes have engaging discussions. Now, we have to constantly put up with you, and others like you, frothing at the mouth, just waiting for someone to say something you disagree with so you can be a jerk.

Guess what? Conservatives aren't always right. Nither are liberals. People like you, who think otherwise, are idiots, end of story.

I hope you don't have kids, but if you do, I feel sorry for them growing up with a role model like you.

They best ay to enjoy a game of baseball is to play it as a kid. The second way, as a spectator is to never go to a game. If you are forced to go to a game, then watch the girls in the t=shirts and "Juicy" shorts. Watching the game itself is distracting, and could be done away with.

You might get the impression that I don't like baseball. That would be wrong. I loathe baseball. Almost as much as major league soccer.

Inga said... Biden was over the top, but he was reacting to Ryan's lies, like the times Ryan said he wanted bipartisanship,

Uh-huh:

SHERMAN OAKS, Calif. -- In the angry life of Maryscott O'Connor, the rage begins as soon as she opens her eyes and realizes that her president is still George W. Bush. The sun has yet to rise and her family is asleep, but no matter; as soon as the realization kicks in, O'Connor, 37, is out of bed and heading toward her computer.

Out there, awaiting her building fury: the Angry Left, where O'Connor's reputation is as one of the angriest of all. "One long, sustained scream" is how she describes the writing she does for various Web logs, as she wonders what she should scream about this day.

Jay, you are such a piece of shit. You're everyting that's wrong with this blog, which used sometimes have engaging discussions. Now, we have to constantly put up with you, and others like you, frothing at the mouth, just waiting for someone to say something you disagree with so you can be a jerk.

Professor,The other really damaging thing Biden said about Benghazi was that no one ever told "us" (the White House?) that the consulate had asked for additional security.(and then also, of course, that not only had these requests been denied, but the security they did have, was removed).

I would have agreed wholeheartedly a few years ago, but spent a good deal of time of time painting the house this summer with the ball game on. There's something about doing something that allows for listening to a ball game on the radio that makes for perfect contentment on a hot summer afternoon.