Questions about IMEI blacklist

I am familiar with the new IMEI blacklist that has recently been rolled out by the national carriers and I support the move as an effort to curb phone theft from consumers. But I have some concerns about potentially massive holes that would allow abuse of the initiative.

As I understand it, if I buy a phone from a carrier and it is subsequently lost or stolen, I can call my carrier and have the IMEI blocked by adding to a blacklist. Further, this blacklist is shared by all of the participating Canadian carriers and by many international carriers, so it will be blocked on those networks too. So far so good.

Now, I have a few additional questions and I'd really appreciate it if someone from Fido could answer each one separately.

If I buy a phone directly from a manufacturer, say Apple, and I use it on Fido (and call to have the IMEI added to my device equipment history list), if this phone is later stolen, can I call Fido and have it added to the blacklist?

If I buy a phone from someone that bought it from Fido, would they be able to later call Fido and have the IMEI blacklisted?

As a follow up to question 2, if I buy the phone from someone that bought it from Fido, can he and I call Fido to have the IMEI removed from his account list and added to my account equipment list? Would that prevent him from subsequently being able to have it illegitimately blacklisted? If it removed his account and is added to mine, can he still have it blacklisted?

If a phone is illegitimately added to the blacklist, is there any mechanism to have it removed from the blacklist?

If a phone is bought on subsidy from a carrier and the buyer defaults on their contract (say they "disappear") will the IMEI automatically be blacklisted by the carrier?

The scenarios I am imagining for abuse (and have now read about) are:

Someone buys a phone from a carrier, sells it, and then calls his carrier to report it as stolen in order to make an insurance claim for a new phone. If, when it was sold to another person, the new buyer was able to have it added to their account and thereby prevent the shady original buyer from blacklisting it, that would close this avenue for defrauding the carrier and the new buyer.

A couple breakup. One partner had both phones under their name and calls to have the IMEI of the other person illegitimately blacklisted. Can that be remedied after the fact?

I understand that it may be in the interests of the carriers to discourage buying from anyone but their stores, but the fact is that sales to occur outside of the carriers. The answers to these questions is important in order to determine whether the new blacklist is being used or could be used to undermine confidence in buying phones from outside the carriers, which was never the intent of the blacklist proposed by the CRTC.

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Answer to Q1: If the Fido phone or non-Fido phone has been used with your Fido SIM card, we are able to blacklist the IMEI from our end.

Answer to Q2-3: If you have used the phone with a Fido SIM card, we are able to blacklist the IMEI from our end as we verify the equipment history. The initial user has 60 days after his last usage to blacklist the phone. The seller may blacklist it within the first 60 days to prevent any usage on the device, but after 60 days this cannot be done. Though once used on your account, you may blacklist the IMEI at any time as well. Therefore there is an uncertain period of 60 days if you choose to make a private purchase.

Answer to Q4: The new rule is designed to help eliminate the black market for stolen devices in Canada and abroad. When you say illegitimately added it is harder for me to answer as it is not specific enough. We are only able to blacklist an IMEI when we have records that it was used by this person. For example, your friend cannot add the IMEI to their account and request a block, if they have never used the IMEI with their SIM card.

Answer to Q5: When an account is defaulted, the price of the hardware subsidy is charged onto the account. The account will go into collections if ever the payment remains unpaid. Only by customer’s request an IMEI may be blacklisted.

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Scenario 1: The same rule will apply, there is 60 days where the initial user can blacklist the IMEI. The new buyer will have the 60 days uncertainty. When someone reclaims another device through the device protection plan, we do not blacklist an IMEI, as this is only done when the user request this.

Scenario 2: The account holder will have control over the blacklist of the devices. This is not an IMEI blacklist only policy, the account holder may decide to cancel the line, change the plan, or even suspend it after a break up as well.

I hope I was able to answer your concerns.

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Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Hi 10yearfido,

Answer to Q1: If the Fido phone or non-Fido phone has been used with your Fido SIM card, we are able to blacklist the IMEI from our end.

Answer to Q2-3: If you have used the phone with a Fido SIM card, we are able to blacklist the IMEI from our end as we verify the equipment history. The initial user has 60 days after his last usage to blacklist the phone. The seller may blacklist it within the first 60 days to prevent any usage on the device, but after 60 days this cannot be done. Though once used on your account, you may blacklist the IMEI at any time as well. Therefore there is an uncertain period of 60 days if you choose to make a private purchase.

Answer to Q4: The new rule is designed to help eliminate the black market for stolen devices in Canada and abroad. When you say illegitimately added it is harder for me to answer as it is not specific enough. We are only able to blacklist an IMEI when we have records that it was used by this person. For example, your friend cannot add the IMEI to their account and request a block, if they have never used the IMEI with their SIM card.

Answer to Q5: When an account is defaulted, the price of the hardware subsidy is charged onto the account. The account will go into collections if ever the payment remains unpaid. Only by customer’s request an IMEI may be blacklisted.

------------------------------------------------

Scenario 1: The same rule will apply, there is 60 days where the initial user can blacklist the IMEI. The new buyer will have the 60 days uncertainty. When someone reclaims another device through the device protection plan, we do not blacklist an IMEI, as this is only done when the user request this.

Scenario 2: The account holder will have control over the blacklist of the devices. This is not an IMEI blacklist only policy, the account holder may decide to cancel the line, change the plan, or even suspend it after a break up as well.

I hope I was able to answer your concerns.

Click on the thumbs up image to like a post or a fellow member of the community.

And don't forget to click Accept as Solution in the options drop-down menu once you've received the answer you were looking for; it'll help our community grow stronger.

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Thanks Amanda for the very detailed answers.

To clarify what I meant by question 4, the illegitimately added IMEI. My exams would be this:A fido customer buys a phone from fido and then sells it. Though it was never stolen, he reports it as stolen to fido in order to claim a new replacement under the Fido Device Protection. Because a claim to have it replaced requires that he claim it was stolen, fido adds it to the blacklist and the buyer can't use his legitimately purchased phone. This obviously has defrauded both Fido and the buyer. Is it possible for the buyer to notify Fido of the fraud, perhaps with a police report, to have it removed from the blacklist?

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Hi 10yearfido,

If a client claims a new phone for a device protection plan, we do not enforce that he must blacklist the IMEI since it is the client’s choice only that can blacklist it or remove it. If the buyer does black list the phone and sells it to someone then yes he would had committed a fraud to the buyer. It is hard to categorize it as a legitimate purchase because the buyer would be unable to provide additional proof (a receipt or a signed document). If we did accept to intervene in this instance, it would be very difficult for us to differentiate a stolen device, a sold device or an exchanged device amongst users.

For my personal opinion, as buyer, you’d have to make sure the phone is active the moment you use the phone. The IMEI would then be on your Fido account, which allows you to blacklist or have it removed as well. By obtaining more information on the person you are buying from (phone number or email address) will also be important. There is still an uncertain period of 60 days if you choose to make a private purchase. Again, it’s hard to intervene when the transaction is done in private without any documentation or additional legal proof.

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Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

i have previously lost a "non fido phone" but used with a fido sim card and no matter what fido did not wanted to blacklist the imei of the phone i lost since it’s not a phone purchased at fido.

why is it the opposite as what youanswered for q1?

or can you blacklist it on your end? i still have my box so i have the imei of the stolen phone.

thanks

How long ago did you lose your phone and try to have it blacklisted? The Canadian carriers only started their blacklist fairly recently, I think last September. If it was before that, then almost none of the blacklisted any phones at all (except those stolen from their own stores and warehouses).

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Hi hpl912,

The blacklisting of IMEIs was effective September 30, 2013. After 60 days we are unable to blacklist the IMEI. I must apologize as I think since it was a new policy throughout Canada, the representative might have been not fully aware of the details. Private message me your date of birth / postal code / and the model of phone you were initially using please. I will see what I can do for you!

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Hi I have found an iPhone 5c about 8 months ago. Reported it to the security at the mall it was found, provided my email / phone all my contact info for them, in case someone came looking for their phone. I have called them several time since.... to date, no one has claimed the phone.

Can you locate the owner and provide to them my contact info, so I can then get the phone to them?

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

The blacklisting of IMEIs was effective September 30, 2013. After 60 days we are unable to blacklist the IMEI. I must apologize as I think since it was a new policy throughout Canada, the representative might have been not fully aware of the details. Private message me your date of birth / postal code / and the model of phone you were initially using please. I will see what I can do for you!

Hi Amanda, I lost my iphone 5 in Dec 2013 and when I called fido to have it blacklisted, the lady told me fido did not do the blacklisting. Reading your responses now saying that the program was effective Sept 2013 which means it was in place over 2 months before I reported my phone stolen just tells me that I was screwed over by not only the thieves who stole my phone but by the fido rep that lacked training to assist me. It's obviously pass the 60 day mark to do anything about it now.

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Hello All,

I recently purchased a galaxy s5 and it was reported lost and was blacklisted. I have contacted the owner and he called Koodo to have it removed from the blacklist. He thought he lost his phone some time ago but actually found it in his house somewhere but forgot to call Koodo to report it not lost. Long story short, the phone currently works with Koodo sim card but nothing else even though I unlocked the phone. On the protectyourdata.ca website it shows not report as lost or stolen anymore. I was wondering how often Fido or any carriers update their blacklist so I can start using the phone on Fido.

Re: Questions about IMEI blacklist

Hello quickfg2 and welcome to the community!

Once an IMEI has been removed from the BlackList, it can take up to 48 hours to work again. If it has been more than that, I invite you to send me more information in a private message and we can look into it!