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Windows 8 - Deeper Impressions

Formfiller

Posted 27 May 2013 - 03:05 AM

Formfiller

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I could post dozens of these articles, and so could Formfiller who I know is also in some of these forums and has spotted quite a few himself. I think he'll agree that the Xbox One reception is mirroring the unprecedented Windows 8 fiasco. I can't say for a fact that this kind of thing has never happened before, but I believe I have never seen anything like it where a company has burned all its bridges in such a systematic fashion. Maybe the "New Coke" analogy is truer than we think, perhaps even far surpassing it. I still have no doubt that Microsoft is incapable of backtracking. It's arrogance precludes such a concession. But I really hope they do in fact backtrack, because there are a lot of fanboy MicroZealots and MetroTards that are in dire need of having their bubble burst. And it would be spectacular to watch them detonate!

EDIT: typo

Yes, I do agree. The Xbox could cost them more than Windows 8. Much software is still tied to Windows, so customers often have no choice but to take Windows, - even a version as horrible as 8, and make it work with Start8 somehow. Not so with the Xbox: Nothing is tied to it (the Xbox One is incompatible with previous games anyway), and there is a viable competitor around the corner, the PS4.

Microsoft risks here losing the market in a big way, even more so than with Windows 8. Many staunch metrotards were also recruited from the Xbox generation - p***ing them off is a serious blow for Microsoft's marketing efforts.

Oh and this is worse than New Coke. Coca Cola reversed that decision within three months, while there's no end in sight for Microsoft's amok run.

Tripredacus

Posted 28 May 2013 - 07:42 AM

My only complaint about the new Yahoo is how AJAX (or somesuch) dependent it is. Meaning it can just hang around doing nothing even though you've clicked a bunch of stuff. Their fantasy sports are worse now, where entire objects can end up disappearing when you hover over them.

Posted 28 May 2013 - 08:33 AM

Not very detailed information yet, but you have got to wonder how the favorite OEM of MicroZealots and MetroTards will feel about this if they sell Android or another flavor of Linux phones. I suppose it is possible they might use Wp8, but if not Lenovo will become the next obstacle of many many obstacles to Windows Phone marketshare which is already teetering on the brink of oblivion.

Basically, it's a cloud service that does more that allow its users to store data on a server, although it does that as well with 5 GB of free space. It also offers a way to store all of the passwords that a user has to keep up with. The end result is that a person only needs to remember one login and password to access all of their websites and services.

Oh what can possibly go wrong with this idea! Well let's see, rewrite that sentence: "The end result is that a hacker only needs to crack one login and password to access all of their websites and services.". Setting aside the utter insanity that your security passwords should be entrusted to Chinese slave labor in the first place, all you need to do is hack one single target to get the whole enchilada. The inevitable headline will read: 'Lenovo Reach hacked by Anonymous two months ago'. This is positively Darwinian now. That means that people actually deserve the consequences and we will need to experience all the obvious pitfalls and hand out all the Darwin awards, in short, go through the motions even though we know the inevitable outcome, because the Human Race is doomed.

The NeoWhiners are lining up to tamp-down this story: "Hey, it's just like the Xbox 360" or "You had your chance to complain before". Translation: 'Stop complainin', we already accepted this'. Proving that there is a subset of the population that are slow-cooking frogs and that you only need to slip the precedents past them in baby steps and they will accept anything at all. Read the next article to see how we end up if we allow slow-cooking frogs to decide our fate ...

The group says that copyright holders should be allowed to take more assertive action against intellectual property thieves. And though they start off with seemingly reasonable requests like allowing a file to be rendered inaccessible if the user gained access to it illegally, it quickly scales to something resembling ramsomware.

The scheme calls for software to be pre-installed on users’ computers to identify whether they are illegally copying, storing or consuming copyrighted content. From there a number of scenarios are proposed, such as locking down your computer up and taking all your files hostage until you contact law enforcement to face the consequences. This is supposed to “stabilize a cyber incident” and provide time to gather evidence against you.

So the BSA and the Hollywood Mafia were emboldened by previous precedents ( judges going after MP3 downloader parents, Microsoft inserting DRM into Vista, etc ... ). Now what could possibly go wrong here? Kinect anyone? Please review Microsoft Patent #20120278904. The precedents established today will bite you in your assets tomorrow. Calling George Orwell.

Basically, the Xbox One could help control a number of a home systems, from lighting to appliances to security. In fact, Microsoft acquired id8 Group R2 Studios, which created an Android home automation app, earlier this year as part of those plans. Whitten says, "You need those [devices] in a central hub as an experience to bring all these things together."

Someone remind me why it was that we disabled that Universal PnP service again? It proves that anything will be forgotten given enough time, no precedent is too big a bite, you just need to keep coming back at the victims again and again and wear them down. I've railed against networking home security before because it gift wraps your entire strategy with a nice bow on it in a single target location for intruders. They will penetrate and get through and have access to baby monitors, surveillance cameras, security tapes, password stores and everything else all from a single point. It is stories like these that have convinced me that Microsoft is incapable of ever doing the right thing. Given a choice between hawking some service to retards or sticking to responsible practices perhaps with less customers but doing the right thing, they will invariably do the former.

But this is old rews really. Now connect the darn dots and imagine networked home security with a working Kinect! Please review Microsoft Patent #20120278904. It is positively inevitable that Kinect will be compromised and become the tool of intruders. By intruders I mean hackers and home invading criminals casing the joint for a physical robbery. Microsoft already is an invader and intruder, albeit non-physical, but criminal nonetheless.

According to IGN, current-gen gaming headsets may be useless for the Xbox One. Voice chat through headsets is dependent on connection through the controller, and since the port will be different on Xbox One controllers, gaming headset microphones will be useless. While there is the possibility of Microsoft manufacturing some sort of adapter, IGN was told that the new port on Xbox One controllers is to gain more control over the peripheral market.

"Manufacturers will not only need to develop entirely new products for the new connection standard," wrote IGN's Scott Lowe, "but use licensing and authentication protocols from Microsoft, potentially driving up costs for consumers. The licensing program could also limit the variety and competitive nature of the accessory market since all manufacturers would be required to adhere to Microsoft's terms."

When asked for comment, a Microsoft spokesperson only offered up vague details. "We are working with 3rd party headset manufacturers to create new headsets that will take full advantage of the Xbox One technology.

"We will share more details in the future."

And the hits keep on coming, while Microsoft continues to copy Apple at every turn! Can we officially call them MicroApple now? Every one of these radical anti-consumer actions have been criticized for years when done by Apple. A majority of the slow-cooking-frogs have done exactly that yet turn on a dime to lend moral support for their slave-master. And notice that Microsoft again cannot give clear answers. That final quote: "We will share more details in the future." should be Microsoft's new motto!

We know our customers want and expect strong privacy protections to be built into our products, devices and services, and for companies to be responsible stewards of their data. Microsoft has more than ten years of experience making privacy a top priority. Kinect for Xbox 360 was designed and built with strong privacy protections in place and the new Kinect will continue this commitment. We’ll share more details later.

Another panic response but lacking details as usual. And with their new company motto as well: We’ll share more details later The main reason they are addressing this is the potential Kinect tie-in with Microsoft Patent #20120278904 and the fact that spying and wiretapping and similar devices are definite no-no's under many laws. There are actually many ways this thing can go south, and I like to point out that it is built-in home casing equipment useful if the bad guys ever figure out how to access it from outside. But it can also be problematic from the inside too. For example, you could certainly buy and use one, but a gray area is if you have people over your house and do not tell them they are being recorded, filmed or observed. The NeoWhiners are going through major logical contortions to rationalize this one. But it will all end when some parent finds their kids naked photo on the internet or if one half of a separated couple figures out a way to use it to spy on the other half.

And it continues. If you screw up a product platform enough people will buy less, hold on to their older systems, and skip having to deal with your Metrofied walled garden fiasco. There is some karma backfiring here also, because when people cling to their old, working, predictable, non-Walled personal systems, it causes future problems for Microsoft in the "support" sector. They wanted to kill it to get people into the Metro ATM cash machines that will theoretically produce side streams of income and they won't mind "supporting" them, but instead will have to "support" non-cash-producing systems outside of their control. So I'm all for it. Save old computers, parts and software. And you know it ticks them off. Do not go quietly into the night.

Complete with a giant infographic. So we have Microsoft defying common sense again, this time pretty much defying logic also. I would bet that even the "social" developers like Facebook and Twitter have strict guidelines about burning up the work hours screwing around on their personal pages. I bet even Microsoft does this. So what could be the purpose? Well they have an ulterior motive of course since they purchased Yammer. At the end of the infographic it says: To learn more about Microsoft's many social tools for the workplace, visit ... Talk about self-serving research!

Utterly horrifying, so far. This "beta" called 15.0 rips out all the functionality and character of Opera, including customization. They even damaged the GUI itself. Many commenters are pointing out that for all practical purposes this thing is like a Opera skinned version of Chrome. So what's the point? Why not close up shop and make a skin for Chrome and call it a day! It seems all the life, spirit and soul has been sucked out of each and every company these days, with the soulless Microsoft of course leading the charge. I haven't yet ventured over to Opera.com to see the reaction, but it is going to be bloody. Maybe someone will get them to release the classic Opera as open source while they dabble in their ridiculous Chrome(less) fantasies.

Well, I thought the dramatic headline should match the breathless blog posts from these authors. Mary Jo Foley has herself a "scoop" describing the morbid details of voluntary Microsoft suicide. Their decision is to kick their customers right in the balls with a slight modification to Windows 8 where they place an icon, no a "charm" where users expect a Start Button, and this thing will launch Metro. Yes, Metro! Paul Thurrott follows up basically rehashing her story, acting as the rear guard for his MicroMasters. Neither one could bring themselves to criticize the arrogant cynicism of such a move, perhaps the boldest and most brazen fraud ever perpetrated by a company on its captive audience.

But what about logic? Does it even exist? How could two years of pointed criticism delivered in painstaking detail at this Metro abortion possibly go unheard? Has it actually gone unheard? Has it actually gone ignored? NO!

I submit that what has happened is not a mistake, and not an accident. What we finally have is confirmation that Microsoft's plan was the destruction of the desktop of which the first attack had to be on the 17 year old Start Menu. No other answer can suffice after this long a period with this amount of criticism. This was their chance to simply change course and admit to a blunder of epic proportions. The lack of this now proves that the plan all along was to dismantle the desktop, leaving the substitute walled-garden, and now it is exposed.

Naturally Thurrott is miles away from the truth in his little follow-up article as is his MicroZombie choir. But that is to be expected from the MicroShill contingent.

I expect no-one here at MSFN in this thread is surprised at all, we called this thing a year ago after nearly a whole year of kicking this around, in fact I called it "War" at the time. So two years is enough. It's over. Microsoft says FU to you, and me, and everyone else that gives a darn.

So what is gonna happen now? Will the adoption rates magically jump because of a "Start" Charm that launches Metro? Will the worldwide criticism and anger subside? What will happen is many more people will awaken to the fact that Microsoft is now their sworn enemy. That's right, enemy. They are beyond clueless and have been outed as devious and nefarious and acting in bad faith. Their plan is to kidnap you into their walled-garden Apple-style universe at all costs.

This isn't Microsoft's "Classic Coke" moment, it is Microsoft's classic cocaine moment where they are acting exactly as coke or smack addicts devoid of rationality. Time to wake up people! It's now or never.

JorgeA

Posted 29 May 2013 - 09:34 PM

Charlotte, the new pseudo-Start Button could be even worse than the current empty spot on the Win8 Taskbar. Mary Jo Foley reports in a second update to the article you link, that:

Thurrott said in the upcoming preview (at least), the new Start cannot be turned off.

Here's Thurrott's post on that topic. If this means what I suspect it means, then -- because it can't be removed -- it might become impossible to replace that fake button with a real Start Button that would call up a real Start Menu.

I'll be happy to be persuasively contradicted on that point.

I agree with you completely, though: this is a big middle finger by MSFT to its longtime loyal customers. It's almost like they're mocking Start Button users by offering form (the Start Button) without substance (the Start Menu).

A couple of insightful comments below Thurrott's article (sadly, in each case followed by an ignoramus reply):

Clearly, Microsoft still doesn't understand the real problem with Windows 8. Having users switch between two different UI's willy nilly is the problem. You shouldn't try to start another desktop app by first switching to the Metro interface, then be switched back. You shouldn't double click a picture in desktop explorer and be thrown into the Metro Photos app [worse, with no easy way back]. The problem is Microsoft keeps forcing you to switch between these two very different interfaces frequently and that substantially cuts your productivity.

The changes announced for 8.1 so far are unlikely to make many more people happy.

Being honest, apart from the start screen, who can say they like the basic Win8 UI? To me it looks like it was designed for the visually handicapped--garishly large text, simple-minded and incomplete prose (because the fonts are so large), etc. I don't want to have to compute in that kind of a visual environment. Maybe all of that works much better for touchscreen tablets with tiny (by my standards) screens. In fact, I'd bet on it. So why did Microsoft forget to leave well-enough alone with the start *menu*? Why not let the user choose his own preference? It really is a puzzle. (You'd think "the future of Microsoft" lay in the eradication of the Windows start menu!--which is nonsense!

According to IGN, current-gen gaming headsets may be useless for the Xbox One. Voice chat through headsets is dependent on connection through the controller, and since the port will be different on Xbox One controllers, gaming headset microphones will be useless. While there is the possibility of Microsoft manufacturing some sort of adapter, IGN was told that the new port on Xbox One controllers is to gain more control over the peripheral market.

"Manufacturers will not only need to develop entirely new products for the new connection standard," wrote IGN's Scott Lowe, "but use licensing and authentication protocols from Microsoft, potentially driving up costs for consumers. The licensing program could also limit the variety and competitive nature of the accessory market since all manufacturers would be required to adhere to Microsoft's terms."

When asked for comment, a Microsoft spokesperson only offered up vague details. "We are working with 3rd party headset manufacturers to create new headsets that will take full advantage of the Xbox One technology.

"We will share more details in the future."

That repeated line about "we'll share more details in the future" sounds like a deliberate strategy: make a Big Announcement, promise to deliver actual information at some unspecified time, then move on to the next Big Announcement. The fanboy press and amateur bloggers will never get around to asking -- "hey, last time you promised to tell us more about the previous Big Announcement." And even if somebody stumbles on the obvious question, there's a ready-made reply: "Oh, that's last year's news, old-hat. Look at This New Thing, isn't it cool and modern!"

But about the play to control the entire accessories market -- that will not go over well, either with existing manufacturers or with gamers who prize the wealth of choices they have today. Mark another contingent that MSFT has pushed into the enemy camp.

The comments are getting funny, especially in the MetroTards'R'Us NeoWin threads. Some clever commenters were playing them using: "What's the matter, you afraid of change now" Naturally that doesn't go over well.

Anyway, so the big news is that there will be a fake Start Button, that points to Metro! If this wasn't so serious you might chalk this up to a gag. But it is serious and looks and feels more like a cynical attack on their customers. I wonder if Apple was ever this ridiculous?

Important new fact, apparently official ... There will be an option to use the Metro wallpaper ( that quasi Art Deco mess ) on the normal desktop, so that the user will not be confused by the sudden changes when bounced into Metro! Recall that the one criticism Microsoft acknowledged at the expense of all others over the course of two years was when some fanboys complained that the desktop didn't look enough like Metro! That's right, this is what Microsoft chose to hear. They ( probably astroturfers ) complained about the desktop! Meanwhile the entire world was complaining about the opposite, having Metro thrust in your face at random intervals for no reason at all. Holy crap. They couldn't be more hostile to the users if they tried.

The MetroTards are unhinged as usual. Good for a laugh maybe, but if you have high blood pressure just stay clear. Actually if you have a high IQ you also should stay clear because it is suspected that hanging out with the logically challenged can drag down your intelligence.

CharlotteTheHarlot

Posted 30 May 2013 - 06:38 AM

an analyst for Sterne Agee, Vijay Rakesh, has suggested that PC buyers will slow in their purchasing of new devices, instead waiting for the refreshed operating system to hit the market. Rakesh predicts that shipments of PCs in June will be down versus last year, citing build orders that are "tracking softer" than expected.

Note that the first story came first, about 4 hours in advance of the second one. The second article actually was due to them contacting Microsoft for clarification, it wasn't released automatically.

So the first one got them all happy because it sounds like 'Wow, a million subscriptions!' ( BTW, why would anybody cheer such a factoid anyway? ). But then came the second story which brings the numbers into focus, and we can now state: 20 million total Office customers of which 1 million are subscribers, demonstrating anything but a wholesale jump to the cloud like the author of the first article tried to imply. As for these drips and drabs of information, It exemplifies how liars manipulate the news, releasing in data in carefully measured doses. Nothing is ever as it seems anymore. Especially at Microsoft.

harrisjl82

Posted 30 May 2013 - 08:21 AM

harrisjl82

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Well at least with the Office 365 subscriptions serve a purpose. We sell those to some of our small clients 2-10 people so that they can get a more functional email solution plus their Office suite. But I think MS is kidding themselves if they ever expect any company, over a certain threshold say 100 users, that can do a cost analysis to ever want to use a subscription model of Office when they can just keep their old version working just fine. I have a fair amount of clients and through them vendors, contacts, partners etc... that still use Office XP and 2003.

On top of that the people who would buy home premium are finally starting to find Open Office and the other freebies because so many students (aka children of less tech savvy people) are using it because they'd rather have a free Office suite and spend more money on whatever then on an expansive program to type words on.

The MetroTards are unhinged as usual. Good for a laugh maybe, but if you have high blood pressure just stay clear. Actually if you have a high IQ you also should stay clear because it is suspected that hanging out with the logically challenged can drag down your intelligence.

LOL

The way they're marketing RetroUI is that you can either get it for free by signing up for it via your Facebook page, or you can purchase the Pro version for $4.95. I'd rather pay the $4.95 than have Facebook follow me all around the Web, as they're suspected of doing. (There are many free Start Menu replacements too, of course.)

BTW, the link to the PCWorld "Windows Blah" article seems to be broken -- I keep getting the "cannot display page" error.

Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:36 AM

Not quite, as we have seen. A comment about one other new feature announced for Windows 8.1:

There are also new navigation settings in the taskbar properties to provide greater control over how the UI works in Windows 8.1. "Show my desktop behind the Start Screen" will bring the Tiles in directly over the desktop background, making it less jarring to switch between them.

Great, so now instead of the entire Start Screen obscuring the technical instructions I'm trying to follow off a website, only the mass of tiles across the Start Screen will be getting in the way. I guess that could count as improvement, of a sort.

Microsoft bringing back the Start Button has been called their "New Coke moment." Basically what they're doing, though, is pouring New Coke into the bottles and slapping a Coke Classic label on them.

Wonder how that typo could happen. Charlotte, don't you highlight the URL in the address box and then copy-and-paste it over to insert the link? I'd be surprised to learn that you were typing out these URLs by hand. (Maybe it's another "Weird forum posting issue" .)

Oh, I see how it could have happened. Maybe you happened to press one of the arrow keys just before Ctrl-V'ing the URL into there, causing the default "http://" to remain in the "Insert link" box instead of getting replaced by what you copied in there.

In all, the alleged UI changes coming in Windows 8.1 don't appear all that spectacular. Microsoft is simply taking elements that already existed within the UI and exposing them to the user: hand-holding between the Start page and the Desktop, for example. Those who disliked Windows 8's schizophrenic interface will still have the same complaints in Windows 8.1.

You can say that again!

If Foley's report is true, however, the most substantive change will be the reorganization of the Start menu, exposing all of a user's apps and making them easily accessible. Organizing them by how often they're used, as Foley indicates, would go some way toward making the list of apps more useful.

UX observation: Look at the illustration of the Apps screen that comes with the article. Notice how the app listings are thinly dispersed (low information density) around the whole screen in several rows and columns. Visually scanning this screen (not to say several screenfuls of them) for the program that you want is bound to be a distinctly slower process than using the Start Menu, where everything is tightly packed into a single column in one corner of the screen. (Less eye movement required.) Moreover, in the Start Menu the listings are black type on a white background, which offers much greater contrast -- and is therefore easier/faster to read -- than white type on a black background, let alone a background that's not black as in the Start Screen illustration.

Score another point or two for the Start Menu over the Start Screen.

The comments are getting funny, especially in the MetroTards'R'Us NeoWin threads. Some clever commenters were playing them using: "What's the matter, you afraid of change now" Naturally that doesn't go over well.

CharlotteTheHarlot

Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:23 AM

CharlotteTheHarlot

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Oh, I see how it could have happened. Maybe you happened to press one of the arrow keys just before Ctrl-V'ing the URL into there, causing the default "http://" to remain in the "Insert link" box instead of getting replaced by what you copied in there.

I think you might be right. I have seen that exact same thing before and I think it leads to having the consecutive tags example: {b}{/b}text that I mentioned earlier.

bpalone

Posted 30 May 2013 - 01:15 PM

Really makes me want to run out and get in line to get a copy......................................NOT!

We’ve learned from customers on how they are using the product and have received a lot of feedback. We’ve delivered hundreds of updates to the product and to apps. We’re just getting started, and the potential ahead is tremendous.

I mean let's get real here. The only thing they have listened to is the play toy zealots and their own egos. I am sure glad that I quit the upgrade treadmill with 2K and have since made a version of the Penguin my primary OS. I don't think I could even begin to try this abomination they call 8 or 8.1. Not even sure that I would allow someone to connect to my home network with it for fear of it leaving some social disease behind.

But, I will say that their marketing department can certainly make a turd seem like something desirable to possess (sp?).

JorgeA

Posted 30 May 2013 - 02:07 PM

Really makes me want to run out and get in line to get a copy......................................NOT!

We’ve learned from customers on how they are using the product and have received a lot of feedback. We’ve delivered hundreds of updates to the product and to apps. We’re just getting started, and the potential ahead is tremendous.

I mean let's get real here. The only thing they have listened to is the play toy zealots and their own egos. I am sure glad that I quit the upgrade treadmill with 2K and have since made a version of the Penguin my primary OS. I don't think I could even begin to try this abomination they call 8 or 8.1. Not even sure that I would allow someone to connect to my home network with it for fear of it leaving some social disease behind.

But, I will say that their marketing department can certainly make a turd seem like something desirable to possess (sp?).

Thanks for the link! And I agree, of course.

Some highlights (with my comments):

As people started using Windows 8, we found that people were using their Lock screens to show pictures of their families. So in Windows 8.1, you can turn your PC or tablet into a picture frame by making your Lock screen a slide show of your pictures – either locally on the device or photos from the cloud in SkyDrive.

Great, so instead of a $1000 tablet (the Surface Pro) you can instead have a $500 or $800 or $1200 picture frame (the PC).

In Windows 8.1, the Search charm will provide global search results powered by Bing in a rich, simple-to-read, aggregated view of many content sources (the web, apps, files, SkyDrive, actions you can take) to provide the best “answer” for your query. We think this will really change the way you interact with the Web and with windows making it quicker and easier to get things done. It is the modern version of the command line!

Of the command line??

But I wonder if the user can change that search provider away from Bing to somebody else, like you can change your browser search engine from Bing to Google.

Windows 8.1 brings variable, continuous size of snap views. You will have more ways to see multiple apps on the screen at the same time. You can resize apps to any size you want, share the screen between two apps, or have up to three apps on each screen if you have multiple displays connected, you can have different Windows Store apps running on all the displays at the same time and the Start Screen can stay open on one monitor. This makes multi-tasking even easier. Also in Windows 8.1, you can have multiple windows of the same app snapped together – such as two Internet Explorer windows.

I'm not sure if this is poorly written or if I'm overthinking it, but I remain unclear as to whether you can now have three apps showing at the same time if you have only one display. Whatever the case, the enhanced feature still doesn't hold a candle to the number, size, and positioning of windows you can have open in the Desktop.

Windows 8 has been a bold, necessary move towards mobility for the PC industry – pushing ourselves and our industry ahead with a touch-first approach that is redefining the PC as we know it, while offering the best of all worlds across any device at any time.

"Touch first" means Desktop second, in the back seat, relegated to second-class status. As we've suspected all along. Not quite abandoned yet, but definitely in the rear-view mirror.

--JorgeA

P.S. Two interesting questions down in the comments:

Great stuff, all expected additions. But where is the Notification Center? This request is also on top of the list for many people. I cannot hunt for Notifications from Tile to tile. Please include a real Notification Center solution before 8.1 hits RTM

Now you've admitted Windows 8 was a horrible mistake for the vast majority of computer users, can we trust you won't do anything to destroy the functionality of classic shell in this update? As this update offers nothing for desktop users, many will be wary of installing it for fear you've mucked up the host of third party solutions to this gaudy dog's breakfast of an OS too.

Thunderbolt 2864

Posted 31 May 2013 - 06:18 AM

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So they are bringing back the Start button but that will open the Start Screen/Metro and not the Start menu we all know. Epic fail there from Microsoft. Is it so hard to provide both an option for a start menu and start screen Microsoft?

The other sites are catching up to those recent stories now. These three are non-Shill sites, unlike NeoWin, so the commenters are a little less forgiving. Okay, a lot less. Thing is, a lot of people still haven't yet realized that the "Start Button" points to Metro, they see the headlines about "Return of the Start Button" and assume Microsoft has fixed it! This is true at almost all the places I've seen. Then some commenter mentions it and a few more catch on, but not all. I wonder if Microsoft counted on this the same exact way they counted on the term "Windows" in "Windows RT" to fool people into thinking it runs any Windows programs. This begs the question, when going through the effort of creating this FAKE Start Button, who exactly did they think would appreciate it?

As long as there's an option to change it to another engine (keep the EU from foaming at the mouth) and an option to disable it (don't want it going the way of Amazon on Unity), sounds like a nice addition... sounds like a much improved version of federated searches in the previous versions of Windows. Wonder if we'll be able to add additional sources to that too...

Naturally he is lambasted by fanboys who immediately cite Google and Apple and other bad comparisons. Microsoft is walking on thin ice here. Doing this on their Surface tablets has no antitrust problem, same as Apple on their iPads. Those devices are their products. MetroTards and MicroZealots cannot understand this simple concept - 99% of Windows computers were NOT manufactured by Microsoft. Microsoft is a 3rd party to those OEMs and home builders, if they try to monopolize these systems by kidnapping the users into BING or their walled-garden Store they are out of bounds. That precedent was affirmed with the MSIE vs Netscape saga around 1998. Now considering that fact, just how can a locked-down walled-garden with Microsoft approved apps from their Store and built-in BING search ever be anything except another monopoly case? And how could they be so id0tic to step into these waters yet again? I repeat, talking about Microsoft or Apple hardware products has nothing to do with this at all. It is clever misdirection. No-one has any expectation about using their software on someone else's hardware as shipped. But OEM computers and home-built all get the OS installed first, and if it is a walled-garden pOS it is effectively locking out everyone else at the point.

Wow, another one bites the dust. I have to give NeoWin some credit here because almost everytime these RT stories come up, they are the first, and often times only one to even mention it. It probably means they are watching RT stories like a hawk, not necessarily looking only for negative stories obviously, but interesting nonetheless.

jaclaz

Posted 31 May 2013 - 08:37 AM

When Sinofsky was asked why Windows 8 sales haven’t revived PC sales, the ex-Windows chief took refuge in the future. “It will take a long time for things to play out,” he said. “It’s exciting, but it means while it’s going on you have to resist the urge to pick winners and losers.”

It’s the kind of history-will-prove-us-right, hard-to-benchmark argument right-wing US hawks used to justify the Iraq invasion.