CFTC Investigating London Gold, Silver Price Fixing For Manipulation

Years after the CFTC, under the leadership of Goldman's Gary Gensler, theatrically agreed to investigate whether the price of precious metals was manipulated during trading - whether systematically or ad hoc - only to let that inquiry fizzle and drop the whole idea proclaiming there is manipulation, the commodity futures regulators are once again taking a look at shady activities originating at London. Or rather, it is "discussing internally" whether the daily London gold and silver price fixing is open to manipulation.

We are confident that this latest noble CFTC effort will be for naught: after all wholesale market manipulation like that of Libor and the energy market, is only contained to those sectors. It is preposterous and inconceivable that bankers, anywhere and especially in London, would be tempted to intervene illegally and push gold prices lower. After all, it is not like a surge in gold and precious metal prices is indicative of a loss of faith in the status quo and fiat money, and thus an embeded status quo oligarchy would have any interest in keeping precious metal prices lower. Which is why we urge the CFTC to promptly forget this latest charade, and to instead focus on much more productive things: like ignoring the creeping takeover by HFT of all commodity markets as well as complaining to Congress about its low, low budget.

The Commodity Futures Trading Commission is discussing internally whether the daily setting of gold and silver prices in London is open to manipulation, according to people familiar with the situation.

No formal investigation has been opened, the people said. The CFTC is examining various aspects of the so-called price fixings, including whether they are sufficiently transparent, they said.

Gold prices are set twice daily by five banks via teleconference, while three banks set silver prices. The fixings are then used to determine spot prices world-wide, including jewelry and sales from mining companies to refineries. The prices also help determine the value of derivatives tied to the metals.

Spokespeople for Barclays, HSBC and Deutsche had no immediate comment. Representatives from the other two banks couldn't immediately be reached.

The silver fix, dating from 1897, involves Scotia, Deutsche and HSBC.

"[The fixings are] not arbitrary, it's very much done on a demand supply basis until a price is arrived at. It's fully transparent, it's nothing like Libor," said a spokesman for the London Bullion Market Association, the trade organization that sets the standards for the quality of gold and silver traded in the London market, but do not run the fixings.

Well that settles that, because in a world in which any real assets are the biggest scarcity, would those who have direct and constant access to money created out of thin electrons, prefer to quietly accumulate gold, physical gold not its paper manifestations, in order to preserve their wealth, at low or high prices?

"After concluding our investigation, the CFTC has found no incidents concerning price fixing or collusion. As a matter of fact we would like to commend JPMorgan, RBS and HSBC for their extraordinary efforts during this exhaustive search for potential wrong-doing in these markets. This should put to rest any and all rumors and accusations in relation to this matter. "

That should do it. Saved the CFTC the trouble of having to go through the motions of an inquiry and posted their press release for them.

They're talking about possibly investigating if five banks setting a price can be open to price fixing... Pretty sure five banks getting together to decide on the price is the definition of price manipulation.

The CFTC should have an internal discussion on whether the CFTC manipulates commodity prices by refusing to regulate financial fraud.

Didnt retiring CFTC Justice Painter say how the CFTC Chairperson at the time Wendy Gramm -yes wife of chief deregulatior Phil Gramm- told a newly hired CFTC Judge to never rule in favor of a manipulation-alleging plaintif?

Also, Chilton said that manipulation intent is impossible for the CFTC to prove (maybe implying how inept the CFTC is), which of course begs the question why the CFTC should continue to exist at all.

Then of course there is PBS's ''The Warning'', which chronicles how former CFTC Chairperson Brooksley Born was trying to blow the whistle on derivatives, when she was run out of town by Greenspan, Summers and Rubin.

Or how about bank lobbyist Jill Sommers then appointed as a CFTC Commisioner and then presiding over MFGlobals and Corazine's CFTC hearing and letting him off?

The CFTC complains to Congress that it needs more money to do its job. The CFTC is doing its job just fine, which is neutering any genuine financial regulation and ensuring banks can commit unimpeded fraud.

The only thing one can be certain of, is that any price arranged by a handfull of guys in a smoke filled teleconference room, is that the price they arive at will NOT be a market price. If it were, there would be no need for the conference.

Remember - We NEED the bankers! If we get rid of them who will take our money from us, use it to pay themselves bonuses based on their profits gambling on exotic derivatives, and then make us pay for it with tax dollars when the toxic assets implode.

Reuters) - The Obama administration is drawing up plans to give all U.S. spy agencies full access to a massive database that contains financial data on American citizens and others who bank in the country, according to a Treasury Department document seen by Reuters.

The proposed plan represents a major step by U.S. intelligence agencies to spot and track down terrorist networks and crime syndicates by bringing together financial databanks, criminal records and military intelligence. The plan, which legal experts say is permissible under U.S. law, is nonetheless likely to trigger intense criticism from privacy advocates.

Financial institutions that operate in the United States are required by law to file reports of "suspicious customer activity," such as large money transfers or unusually structured bank accounts, to Treasury's Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN).

I'm about giving up any hope of seeing the 'Deer in Headlights' pic on a ZH article again in my lifetime. I think we've gone over the rainbow and will live the rest of our lives in this suspension of disbelief.

"[The fixings are] not arbitrary, it's very much done on a demand supply basis until a price is arrived at. It's fully transparent, it's nothing like Libor," said a spokesman for the London Bullion Market Association, the trade organization that sets the standards for the quality of gold and silver traded in the London market, but do not run the fixings."

"Cessation of SIFO 11:00 Means with effect from 5th November 2012 Following consultation with the LBMA forward Market Makers, and more generally with other market participants, the LBMA Management Committee has agreed that after 2nd November 2012, the forward Market Makers will cease making contributions of their mid-price silver forward rates to allow the calculation of the SIFO means on the Reuters system each day. The reason for the withdrawal of the dataset was that unlike GOFO these rates were indicative rates only and therefore not dealable rates between forward Market Makers. In addition, since January 2011, the LBMA forward Market Makers have jointly contributed essentially the same data (but covering an extended range of maturities – from spot to 3 years) to the LBMA’s daily forward curve for silver. This forward curve can be obtained from a variety of data vendors (Thomson Reuters, Bloomberg and others). If you are interested in receiving this dataset please refer to the Silver Forward curve page on the LBMA website for further details."

I'll be scavenging in the rubble looking for fiat mementos of the past; a proud JPM golden eagle here, a Goldman Sachs swastika there, a St Blythe CDS contract rehypothecated fifty times in the City gutter.

Imagine all the unique fiat smart paper you could collect like Third Reich trophees from the REichstag bonfire under katyusha batteries, Stalin's orgues; now become the awesome meltdown of derivative towering infernos; twin towers of WS/City hegemony.

I could then emigrate to Santiago and grow a beard as part of the Odessa community; like a SS hit man smuggled out and retired, who used to sell WMD to the gullible pension funds in his heyday. Moving from my penthouse flat on Park lane to a Santiago or Valparaiso slum dwelling will be tuff; but I'l survive. There will be so many of us City traders on the run, that nostalgia will be our best pastime to kill the bees and fuck the fleas.

Oh the good ole days of auld lang syne....When we were kings of city and shitty titty ruskis and gobbledy gremlin greeks used to ask us advice! ..."What should I do with my dirty millions, Maestro???"

It is not so much that Gensler (and Schapiro, when in office) are fuggin' blatant liars and obviously on the take... it is that there are ZERO people in the administration or congress or anywhere that give a rat's ass about it... the corruption is so deep and widespread that politicians, regulators, everyone connected in any way to the mega-corrupt banker scum have turned a blind eye to it... we need a total collapse to clean the baffles... ropes and lamposts will be a factor...

The CFTC itself has been repeatedly accused by the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) and many others of being derelict, if not outright complicit, in allowing these trading violations to continue.

But my shares in NFLX are screaming higher while the "Stack" I unloaded in 2011 at $45/oz. can be replaced by selling my NFLX stock and buying double the stack I sold back then. Maybe betting WITH the banksters is a smarter move than betting aggin 'em. They are all thieves.

Just a hypothetical but if gold or silver all of a sudden was ooooh let's say silver/$150. Gold $3500. Who'd give a shit? The sheep don't eat silver or gold they eat whatever their EBT card will buy them. I just don't think it matters anymore. Admit it, we are slaves.

yep, they will discuss it all right and promptly fill a bucket to overflowing with goat shit...

doesn't the cftc have better things to do - such as speeding up their internet connections for porn downloads? or am i confusing them with sec?

gensler will be phsyically maimed - if not killed - if he takes any actions on these "discussions" (for how to bury the topic).....banksters from tbtf banks have previously shoved him against walls threatening him not to do a thing....i am sure that gensler will repeat his previous life preserving actions....

The .gov alphabet soup financial regulatory bureaucrats are owned. Remember how long Harry Markopolos had to sweat it out after gift-wrapping the Madoff fraud case and presenting it to the SEC, twice? It took a financial crisis to finally blow up Madoff, fucktards.gov never lifted a finger. They won't lift a fucking finger for gold or silver either.

I always wonder what the laugh of the day will be. Today it is a tie between the CFTC and the local police where I tried to explain what forgery and fraud is in a foreclosure complaint. I have come to the conculsion, like many, that bureaucrats are....idiots on purpose so they can pretend they do not understand the problem so they don't have to do anything about it! CFTC and police dealing with white collar crime...both clueless to a fault. What problem? It is almost as good as denail and counter accuse. Try that next time someone makes a statement against you...for anything.

Terry Smeeton in the Bank of England used to manipulate the Gold Fix all the time using the EEA account. If the price looked to be going up to much he'd offer supply through Rothschilds, then whatever was sold he'd buy it back later at a profit when the price had calmed down. It was official policy. Oliver Page monitored the P&L. Then they'd all go for a nice drink together. Horray! And do some bird watching....

Can anyone offer any insight into what % of each size silver bars or rounds that one should keep? I'll not buy any over 10 ounces. I'd like to keep it to tens fives and ones, maybe some pre 64 dimes and quarters.

I had started with tens (before the unfortunate marine calamity I was involved with)..........................

What % would you allocate to each size and why. Obviously if (and when) silver coins/bullion are used for trade, you'll want to have an assortment.

P.S.,

I can certainly see the value of holding some gold, but the Gold Silver ratio is too high for me to buy gold now.

It almost smells like a rouse to keep all the tinfoil hat trouble makers here distracted from the fact they are hiding all the stock market manipulation going on in HTF trades by the big boys like JPM and GS.

We know how the CTFC responds when someone calls out the manipulation using their data sets. They do what all good regulators do in the new normal. They blame the people who call out manipulation and do things like the following, rather than investigate HFT manipulating the markets, the regulator is investigating academic access to their audit level data-set.

If you look at Vitali Glattfelder and Battiston (2011) you will see a single super entity owns and earns 80% of the world's wealth. This makes the idea that any market is free a joke. We live in a world where a Rothschild zionist controlled monopoly decides the prices, not in a free market.

What good is a free market to a coca grower in Peru? A poppy grower in Afghanistan? Or a cannabis gardener anywhere? Everyone loves price supports. Farm subsidies _are_ the EBT. The black market is the agency of unintended consequences. All Crime Begins With Politicians. The United States' Constitution was meant to PREVENT the freeing of slaves, and its failure is not inevitable.

Exposing manipulation in the _western_ precious metals price setting mechanism would be politcally delicate. Should the sheeple become disillusioned about the transfer of wealth the precarious nature of state control might become evident. No government agency will EVER participate in its own disolution and that is what an investigation would mean; can you imagine the CFTC marching themselves into prison?