Consider, for example, Psalm 22.* It was written about 800 to 900 years before the Romans invented crucifixion. Yet, it detailed and explained what happened on the cross.

Have fun.

John Walter Russell

Yeah and it details events that occured hundreds of years before the English language. What language was this "written word and its demonstrated accuracy" written in? How do you know each translation is faithful to the original intent.

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What language was this "written word and its demonstrated accuracy" written in?

The 22nd Psalm, along with most of the Old Testament, was written in Hebrew. The New Testament was written mostly in Greek. There are various scholarly resources available so that an interested person can verify for himself the veracity of the translations.

My wife and I are both atheists, though we do appreciate the role of ceremony and will usually drop by a Buddhist temple or Shinto shrine at New Year's, for example.

When our daughter asks about death, I tend to say that it is like sleeping forever with no dreams, and one can't talk or do anything or play with anyone ever again. This is mostly when trying to impress on her that doing something is dangerous, could result in death, and that it is something to be avoided.

When that's too harsh a message, such as when a loved one or pet dies, then my wife is apt to say that one will be reborn some day or become one of the gods (the Buddhist and Shinto influences, respectively, I suppose). I'll go along with this, figuring we can sort it out later (or better yet, let our daughter sort it out for herself), or else say something about the substance of our bodies going back into the world to become part of new living things (the "Circle of Life" stuff from "The Lion King" is a handy reference in this regard). I was not raised Christian (my parents were themselves hard-fallen Catholics, and raised us pretty strictly atheistically), and it has never occurred to me to try the heaven thing. I'm not sure I'd even feel qualified to use Christian cosmological trappings if I wanted to.

So we've not found the idea of heaven necessary so far for our kid, though I have to admit that it is handy having some culturally-accepted alternatives available, like reincarnation, which can kind of be shaded into my atheistic recycling beliefs.

Where does it unambiguously refer to a crucifixion? It refers to suffering does echo some of the phraseology ("Eloi, Eloi,...), but remember that the writers of the New Testament would have been schooled in the Old Testament and intimately familiar with the Psalms.

REW--I know we havew a fight to start, but too many (seemingly) random events have occured for me to settle and think. So I must wait.

But I will throw the gauntlet down formally:

I was originally upset about your behavior: You said "I'll prey for you." The inference I drew from that is the possibility of you killing me, tearing the flesh from my bones and then eating me. Not a pleasant experience. Whereas I was thinking about a church for you to attend.

I now stand at the ready to smite you!!!!!! !

So at this time I would like to inform you that it is time to amend one of my statements. I believe I said that 'I could prattle on about this stuff untill I dropped dead." I would like to add "but probably longer" at this time. Consider yourself warned.

REW--I know we havew a fight to start, but too many (seemingly) random events have occured for me to settle and think. So I must wait.

But I will throw the gauntlet down formally:

I was originally upset about your behavior: You said "I'll prey for you." The inference I drew from that is the possibility of you killing me, tearing the flesh from my bones and then eating me. Not a pleasant experience. Whereas I was thinking about a church for you to attend.

I now stand at the ready to smite you!!!!!! !

So at this time I would like to inform you that it is time to amend one of my statements. I believe I said that 'I could prattle on about this stuff untill I dropped dead." I would like to add "but probably longer" at this time. Consider yourself warned.

REW--I know we havew a fight to start, but too many (seemingly) random events have occured for me to settle and think. So I must wait.

But I will throw the gauntlet down formally:

I was originally upset about your behavior: You said "I'll prey for you." The inference I drew from that is the possibility of you killing me, tearing the flesh from my bones and then eating me. Not a pleasant experience. Whereas I was thinking about a church for you to attend.

I now stand at the ready to smite you!!!!!! !

So at this time I would like to inform you that it is time to amend one of my statements. I believe I said that 'I could prattle on about this stuff untill I dropped dead." I would like to add "but probably longer" at this time. Consider yourself warned.

--Greg

I have prepared a re-smite to your imprudent gauntlet throwing. (BTW, you should consider some formal lessons as you missed rather badly.) But under the circumstances I will keep my powder dry and wait for the appropriate time to retaliate respond.

REW

__________________Numbers is hard

Although rare, it is possible to read something on this forum you don't agree with and simply move on with your life

Smite, prey, pray, toss the gauntlet - no news from the dougnut shop sex, politics and religon wise - just bitching about the heat - 88 degrees at 8 this morning - don't even mention the humidity. A couple got nicked by kids and grandkids - $ wise for back to school. A little reminising about housing, etc back in the 70's around Annapolis and Baltimore subs - Towsend, Middle River, etc.

just bitching about the heat - 88 degrees at 8 this morning - don't even mention the humidity. - it's waaay too hot down here already.

A/C and perhaps a little dip in Lake Ponchartrain later.

The DW and visited New Orleans for a week a few years ago. Spent most of our time in The French Quarter. We often got some real 'wiffs" while walking around. Now, whenever I smell somthing similar, I tell the wife "It sure smells like France around here." Enjoy your 'partial bit' of foriegn travel; may I suggest a visit to the septic for a serious trip adventure? Unless you've been there, done that. Then just stay home and worry about the Saints.

I have prepared a re-smite to your imprudent gauntlet throwing. (BTW, you should consider some formal lessons as you missed rather badly.) But under the circumstances I will keep my powder dry and wait for the appropriate time to retaliate respond.

First, I would like to define intelligence so that we both start with a shared experience: To my mind, intelligence is simply a cognition or recognition of a pattern or non-pattern, some where and/or some time—in the space-time continuum. People with high IQs generally are able to discern these patterns easier, quicker, or in different locations. (Einstein was brilliant in even further clarifying this with the “everything is relative” comment.) If a multiple choice test is taken, the person who scores the highest sees more predetermined (by the test maker) patterns than the ‘less smart’ ones. We have recognized something and quantified it--often with an IQ number. Then this second phenomenon, the recognition by the pattern maker of the fully determined pattern expressed by the test taker is or can be checked for patterns, e.g. the test, the testee, and the tester are held up to be examined by test studiers to see if correct correlations exist. Sometimes it feels like it will never end. The results are usually published. Thank god the people involved can retire at some point and start to really enjoy themselves.

Something random, to my mind, is an event that has no discernable pattern to the observer: We don’t know where it came from or when it might occur. I will assume for the moment that all such events are in the real, physical world. But please keep me informed of whether or not we are in the physical, material world or in some other world at various points in your rebuttal. This would be appreciated.

At this jucture tell me if you concur or disconcur, please. If you disconcur, how and/or why so?

I hope we will both agree at some future point that randomness is the true opposite of intelligence—and that it is not an entity commonly called stupidity that has a real existence. Ultimately, the universe is not a dualistic phenomenon, IMO. If you concur, you save a huuuuge amount of prattle. So, you see, there is an immediate reward for agreeing with me. I recommend concurance. Otherwise, the real smiting will continue; the process is the smite.

To my mind, intelligence is simply a cognition or recognition of a pattern or non-pattern....

I guess that would make Technical Analysts the smartest people in the world. They see patterns even when there are none.

Anyway, I think I see where you're going with this. Structure implies intelligence at work. But entropy is always increasing in the universe. We only have a few local instances of structure overcoming randomness. As time goes on, fewer and fewer patterns exist. So, I guess this means that God was around for the Big Bang, but then he died. And someday the universe will be completely random.

The DW and visited New Orleans for a week a few years ago.* Spent most of our time in The French Quarter.* We often got some real 'wiffs" while walking around.* Now, whenever I smell somthing similar, I tell the wife "It sure smells like France around here."* Enjoy your 'partial bit' of foriegn travel; may I suggest a visit to the septic for a serious trip adventure?* * * Unless you've been there, done that.* Then just stay home and worry about the Saints.

--Greg

I have been to the "Big Easy" only once, with my first wife, about 1995.
I left the car in the hotel lot (Hilton? Sheraton?) for the whole time. Anyway, after we
left, I noticed all of our CDs were missing. When we got home I contacted
the hotel and they gave me $ for my loss, plus credits for future
lodging. I was satisfied. Then , about 2 weeks later, I opened a drawer
in our kitchen and Shazamm!.............there were the missing CDs.
We stayed in N.O. for several days but this remains my most vivid memory.

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