I'd honestly say Revolutionary Girl Utena subverted the magical girl thing before any of those; it has transformations, and was technically consider a magical girl show, even though it was /anything/ but.

The key word is "influential," people. It doesn't matter what subverts what if nobody cares. Friggin' Dokuro-chan and Dai Mahou Touge subvert magical girls, and that's not an automatic ticket to anything. And I say that as a Tutu fan, though my penis draws the line at Utena (it can also do sketches).

Now, we haven't seen entire strings of Madoka imitators yet besides Symphogear. But it has become a top seller in Japan, anime or otherwise. That's why it already counts as a landmark.

Agreed. Besides, there's no Fist of the North Star, which has influenced pretty much all the anime on that list except Astro Boy and Doraemon. And Lucky Star is a piece of shit, it's just a female alternative to Cromartie High, so that should be on the list, too. The first 6 on that list is made of fail.

Overall a great list. I would personally move madoka below Ghost in the Shell, and move Sazae-San up. I would also like to move Ghost in the Shell up, but those are some giants of the Anime industry above it.

I honestly don't know why people concern themselves so much with the positioning of Anime in lists. Personally, I feel that being on the list is all that counts and I have to agree with every single one of them.

Also, I don't see why K-On!, Lucky Star and Madoka shouldn't be on the list. With a title like Epoch-Making, you can't argue that those three Anime did create waves and influenced change in the Anime-world, both within Japan and internationally. It would be delusional to deny that.

Actar, you don't know the meaning of "influential". Go watch azumanga daoih, evangelion and space runway ideon first and you will undestand which your retarded argument which lucky star, k-on! and madoka deserves to be in this list are wrong.

Lucky Star and K-On! may be influential, though I personally think they were just more in a long line of cute girls doing things anime.

Madoka, on the other hand, hasn't changed anything that I've seen, so far.

It was just another loltwist anime that a few people are heavily circle jerking over, and everyone else has forgotten by this point. Just because it was about mahou shoujo in this case doesn't mean it was anything significant.

Saying Madoka is influential in any way would be like saying Serial Experiments Lain was influential in any way. It was different and unusual, but it didn't change anything at all.

I mean, other than the shared features of Magical Girl shows like transformation scenes, mascot characters, magical items/powers, the fighting of evil and what not, there really is very little in common between Magical Girl shows. And before anyone says anything, as opposed to being ‘cliches’, I would say that the above characteristics are what defines the genera, like how Macross will always have music and transforming planes and how Kamen Riders will always have a henshin belt. As long as they are handled differently in each work, there should be no problems.

If we're talking about overall influence, it's too early to tell. Madoka still holds up as an anime that, while it sold mostly to otaku, it pulled in people from all different kinds of backgrounds who watched it on television and compared the feeling to when they watched Evangelion. Even though it's only been about a year, it's already been spoofed and used several times in other series, and the following "cult" hasn't diminished much yet. It's won several awards and gotten critical acclaim from all sorts of big-name places and people. Not to mention, it still appears at the top or near the top of most polls.

I'm not going to claim that it WILL outlast its time, but I'm willing to bet it has a good chance of doing so, if not influencing the future of the Magical Girl genre (like Nanoha did, if not even more dramatically). But only time will tell, so there's no point in arguing about it to the end yet.

For something to be influential, the work must affect OTHERS works. Is like saying how a movie or a manga with revolutionary ideas created a bunch of similar or inspired works.

Like Pokemon. After Pokemon, a wave of "kids with their *monster/robots/csrds/thigs* became famous. The concept of a powerfull pet might have appeared before, but the way Pokemon presented it became worldwide famous, and changed the industry forever.

Madoka can't be influential because it is so new that *nothing* was inspired by it.

The reason it's on the list is because it's a recent show. In ten years it'll be like Love Hina or Rahxephon or Chobits. Thought of as significant at the time, relegated to the dustbin of history to be only remembered vaguely by those who saw it and end the end recognized by the more well acquainted as just another part of a long line starting before it and continuing after it. Mildly evolutionary, not at all revolutionary.

Not that any of this is to say that madoka wasn't a decent show. It certainly had some things about it that were okay, but to act like it had some significance beyond it just being another loltwist anime this time in the mahou shoujo genre is putting it on an unmerited pedestal.

The reason it's on this list is how it looked at the standard mahou shoujo. It was dark and somewhat thought provoking. It had ideas that were deep unlike any other mahou shoujo I have ever seen. It also had an overarching story so you really did have to watch every episode unlike your usual mahou shows that have, for the most part, self contained episodes till the final 5 or 6 episodes of the season.

Azumanga Daioh should be on there instead of Lucky Star, Excel Saga should probably be up there as well someplace. I'd probably say Love Hina as well, as it is one of the most well done harems out there, also Welcome to the NHK for comedies.

Tenchi Muyou o/\o. Best harem series ever imo. Kajishima and Hayashi really know how to combine comedy and fanservice without it being obvious and forced, while at the same time keeping with an awesome story. It deserves way more love than it gets.

Azumanga Daioh IS epoch making because it ushered in the epoch of The Slice of Life Moeblob Anime.

Is than not an epoch? Was it not created by Azumanga?

Maybe time will reveal that Lucky Star would be more influential (although I'd argue that LS's "influence" is entirely superficial ie;character art, catchy themesongs & million-dollar merchandising campaign) but it's clear that Lucky Star & K-on entered an epoch that had already existed for a few years thanks to Azumanga Daioh.

Kyo-Ani's creations may have tweaked certain aspects of the Slice of Life genre but they did not create it.

You can't go back to the stone age. We're talking "Epoch Making" or whatever. It means anime that influenced a time period heavily. So what did Lucky Star influence? Azumanga did influence Lucky Star, so there you have you're "epoch-making".

- Digimon talk.
- Take place in 'reality' where Digimon are unnatural.
- Each child has only one Digimon and are treated as Partners.
- Digimon 'digivolve' to a more powerful form for battle and revert back to Rookie form after.
- Digivolution is usually triggered through character growth.
- Goal is to defeat the bad guy and restore peace and order to the world.
- Overarching story based.
- Individual seasons with unique characters, settings and plot for each one. Not to mention, the characters are deeper and the concepts discussed and brought up are far more mature.

Pokemon

- Pokemon do not speak
- Take place in a 'fictional' world where Pokemon are everywhere.
- Each person can have multiple Pokemon and they are treated more as animals/pets.
- Pokemon evolve when they gain enough battle experience.
- The main goal is defeating all the Gym Leaders to be the 'best'.
- More episodic.
- If I'm not mistaken, Ash/Satoshi has been the main character even till now and the setting/world has remained the same.

...also, not sure about Pokemon, but Digimon was really dumbed down in the US dub...

both are proxy battle anime with the audience beeing children err i mean youngsters... dont get me wrong... i dont dislike proxy battles... i play pet classes all the time.... but the mon's are alike imho.