The unexpected gamer protest against Valve's E3 announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 has left more than a few obervers perplexed.

Add the name of G4's Adam Sessler to the list of those who don't get what the whining is about. On his latest Soapbox segment Sessler takes the L4D2 protesters to task:

We're going down that path again - this shocking, amazing sense of entitlement that always manifests itself in the gaming community... Valve does not have a habit of screwing people and if there was ever a developer out there I would just kind of give them the benefit of the doubt...

They don't owe you anything. It's a business... Where were you brought up and in what environment where you hugged so overwhelmingly that you feel that you need to be served as the only person that needs to be considered when other people are making commercial properties? It really is a little bit on the naive side and slightly embarrassing... It's kind of juvenile... The Internet, when it comes to games, can be such a nation of whiners...

Comments

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

This is your signature, right?

So, do these people then not have the freedom to express their opinion? Just like Valve has the freedom to go ahead and release the game anyway? Pick a side: L4D2 is fine or L4D is a broken promise, and fight that... or GTFO. Arguing about how whether or not these people have the right to complain is pointless, and in your case, hypocritical.

I don't care about anyone saying what their "opinion" is. Where the problem comes in (thus the nature of my sig) is when people say stuff purported as fact when it is nothing more than propaganda. For example, the whole GW "If you're not with us, you're against us" thing was totally out of line. On the other hand, I don't like being told that I'm racist because I didn't vote for Barack Obama. I didn't vote for him because I disagreed with his policies, and felt they were the wrong direction to take this country (and thus far I'm being proven right). The fact that he is black had no bearing on my vote.

Had he been more moderate, I might have considered it.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

"You want to support a indutry we're good enough means more bugs less content in broken and haphazard packages keep on enjoying your mindless milk bukkue fest for the rest of us thars work to do... IE whining. :P"\

You see, that's one of the problems right there. You assume that just because you thought the game was horrendous that it automatically is. The millions of other people who bought the game would be keen to disagree with that notion. I think that's one of the biggest problems with some of you on here. Obviously, if the game is a multi-award winner, and a multi-million copy-selling game, it is not the atrocity you want to believe it is. Is that the only argument that some of you can bring? Really? I foind it hilarious, Zippy, how you think in some kind of warped sense of self-worth that you actually bring about change for the consumer with your venting? Since when? Didn't work for the folks who hated Blizzard's art design in Diablo 3. The red rings? Hardware failure is a bit different that a personal game experience.

Obviously, some of you hated L4D. Fine. I'm sorry you did, since I played many games I hated too. However, your hatred does not equal any fact. The fact is that the game sold well and was well recieved by critics and consumers alike, so it seems to be pretty far from the "shit" you claim it to be.

Plus, I don't understand the concept of buying the game for DLC. If you pay sixty dollars for a game, I assume you pay for the the retail game, the game that comes in the box or through the download service. You pay sixty dollars for L4D, for that experience that comes in the box. You pay for the content that comes with the game. When do you think it's a good idea to buy a game for some hopeful DLC? I didn't buy most of he games I have now for DLC that MIGHT come later on. I pay for what comes in the box. If you pay expecting some DLC, than that's your own damn fault.

However, all of this can be solved by just not buying the game. Unhappy or unsatisfied with the first game? Let Valve know by not buying the sequel. Simple. And it makes you look less like a doofus.

And Zippy, how do you intend to boycott retail chains by buying used? Where do you expect, other than friends or a garage sale, to buy used games? Maybe a retail chain like Gamestop....

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"We received 20 calls last night. As we all know, one call equals a billion people. So 20 billion people called us last night. We must act to preserve decency on television." -The FCC

"This is not the difficult thing, gentlemen, to escape death, but it is far more difficult to escape evil, for it runs faster than death." -Socrates

So the developer makes games that are good enough that you want to buy and play them, but not good enough to support the developer to make more good games? And people wonder why their favorite companies are downsizing or closing.

Sessler nailed it. Somehow my generation of kids has turned into a bunch of spoiled, self centered egoists who believe everything in the world exists for their benefit.

News flash. If Valve wouldn't make a profit on something, they would never make anything. You wouldn't have steam or any of the other quality software (games or otherwise) they've put out. Game developers aren't in the business they're in for the consumers, they're in it for themselves. The funny thing is that these people whining about L4D2 don't give a damn about how well valve does, as long as they get their free stuff.

Hypocrisy at it's finest, welcome to our generation of game consumers.

We are either sheep who demand more and whine about it or sheep who pay to suck wallet and brain shrinking tit's.

You want to support a indutry we're good enough means more bugs less content in broken and haphazard packages keep on enjoying your mindless milk bukkue fest for the rest of us thars work to do... IE whining. :P

Also entitlement dose not always equal selfishness, we the black sheep of consumerdom want better more polished and less lulzy and broken products while the rest of the herd is happy with shit 9 times out of ten, if it were not for us you would enjoy eating sht like it was good food.

If games were 10-20 a pop there would be a lot less hurt feelings as thats a sign of true mass market mass produced crap but while games are priced 40-70$ a pop we ALL need to demand better from the industry and boycott all retail chains by buying used, if you can not do that and rest set the system then there well be no change as the maggoty is to stupid to care about much of anything anything. Case in point the 360 with a 30-60% fail rate and with such little public outcry MS slowly attempted to fix the problem thats still a issue to this day.

TL : DL we are the ones to keep things from getting worse, we might be small in numbers but there is enough of us that things can't get to bad without a slow raging outcry over it. If no one cared the 360 would have a 90 day warranty on it still.....

I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..

1) If L4D was really as bad as you and Erik make it out to be, it wouldn't have sold so many copies or gotten so many awards.

2) Entitlement does equal selfishness, because of what feelings of entitlement are. People who feel entitled to things think that, no matter how little effort they put out, everyone else is supposed to give them things. As I have stated before, all you did was purchase Left 4 Dead. At no time was there a promise made to give x-DLC by y-date, or a promise to not put out a sequel until a very very small subgroup of the people who bought this game said so. If you purchased this game believing either of those, you're an idiot and deserve to be told such.

3) Left 4 Dead is not an indie game, therefore worthy of being more than 20 bucks. Just because you believe you should get everything for free, doesn't make it so.

4) You are not the ones who will "keep things from getting worse." If you were, you'd be attempting to get a college degree, start your own gaming company and do it the way you think it should be done. We'll see how long you float selling full games for 10 bucks with free DLC every two weeks.

5) Your 360 comparison is not the same. A vast majority of 360's were broken, all over the world, and they still haven't fixed the issue permanently. A very small percentage of people who bought Left 4 Dead are unhappy with the issue we are discussing. The blame for the former can be placed solely on Microsoft. The blame on the latter rests with the people who are angry.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

1. You are missing the point this is not about LD4 but how complacent with mediocrity the industry is awashed with.

2.You're missing the point I am not railing on LD4 or even LD4 2 specifically ....And are people to not want more for thier money, not want polished and refined entertainment they should just take it in the ass(or unliked orifice of choice) and like it? Just cause the majority are bunch of rim licking morons?

3.See above, and it was 40$+ at launch, try again.

4.Uhg...miss the point miss the point miss the point, we are the ones(not every black sheep with a comment but rather any sheep that gives a damn about gaming as it was) keeping the industry from going fully casual and throwing away any semblance of what gaming is, remove the enthusiasts and mature game fans that would leave nothing but casual and kid based games(what sells the most) and from that you'll have more random trends that could easily destroy half the industry or more because a new trend in another market has replaced it.

5.No its not not with a majority of games being damaged, and again I am not focusing on LD4 here this is a industry wide issue of rushing out a product to fix it later through DLC if EVER.

I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..

Nowhere in any of your incoherent rambling did you ever say anything about any of the above. You were, in fact, whining about Left 4 Dead 2, and how, you think, Valve will obviously not support Left 4 Dead (even though nobody at Valve has said anything of the sort). You totally ignore the fact that Valve doesn't make kids games or party games. They only make hardcore games, and support them for years after release. If you want to take a stand against the industry, doing so against Valve and one of their most popular games is the wrong way to go.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

[quote]Nowhere in any of your incoherent rambling did you ever say anything about any of the above.[/quote]

Incoherant rambling=zippyspeak, WELCOME TO GAMEPOLITICS!!!

:P

[quote]ou were, in fact, whining about Left 4 Dead 2, and how, you think, Valve will obviously not support Left 4 Dead (even though nobody at Valve has said anything of the sort).[/quote] Hardily I was focusing on the industry as a whole just because I didn't mention it...well...is oversight on my part. *lick*

[quote]You totally ignore the fact that Valve doesn't make kids games or party games.[/quote]

In general yes, its mostly the case new game gets all the attention game that came out is mostly ignored but for some bug work or DLC.

[quote]They only make hardcore games, and support them for years after release.[/quote]

You do realize hardcore in this day and age is some form of advanced casual ? I would not call Portal nor L$D hardcore, even TF2 is so so in that respect, I did get to play it and L4D online some at a friends house. And frankly HL2 out of the box was weak, the eps make up for it a bit but 8 years for 1 game mealpiced out has not really been worth it.

[quote]If you want to take a stand against the industry, doing so against Valve and one of their most popular games is the wrong way to go.[/quote]

Well I been making my stand against them since they invented steam, I refuse to have that sht on my PC and wait until a steamless version comes out so I can put it in my used retail version so I can play the damn thing.

I am a criminal because I purchase media,I am a criminal because I use media, I am a criminal because I chose to own media..We shall remain criminals until Corporate stay's outside our bedrooms..

I have to agree here. Like most people here have already said, all you did was pay for L4D, and then you were given free add-ons later on. Any other company would have charged you $10 for that. The fact that Valve even does any of this for free in the first place is huge. This goes for Team Fortress 2 as well. The fact that so many gamers expect and even demand that Valve continues to do this is ridiculous. Just because they've done it, it doesn't mean gamers are entitled to it. All you are entitled to is a product. If it functions and functions well, you've just lucked out.

Edit: Oh, and anyone boycotting this game I have no problem with. You are allowed to do that, you are allowed to have your opinions. However, when you're sitting at home playing L4D with what is hopefully no more free DLC, I'll be enjoying L4D2.

I don't care if it is free. I've spent real money on buying clothes for the character in Dead Rising. I would have no problem paying $10 or even $20 for some new content. If it speeds up the process I would definetely pay.

Mind you L4D isn't a horrible game, rather it is a very good starting point for a game. Rather than making a sequel they should just have made it an expansion. Really it seems like the sequel is going to be nothing but an expansion dressed up like a new game. I'll pay for an addon, but don't try to trick me into thinking it's a new game.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Here we are enjoying a game that's been out, what? 6, 8 months? Now we're getting a sequel. Cool. About a year after the game came out. Okay. Is it an expansion pack? Is it a separate game? How much will it be sold for? How much of it will be integrated into the original? These are the questions that currently there's no answer to. When generating rapid sequels you need to be able to answer some of these otherwise you get the massive confusionfest that is this with people complaining about other people for exercising their right to complain in an endless pot and kettle tirade. The best Valve has been able to do is confirm the map editor will be out for both games and that really wasn't the answer to the biggest questions around. If E3 had been later in the year or Valve had decided to wait for something like PAX then we might of been able to avoid this. Of course, its freaking E3 and pretty much back to the way it used to be. The pressure to make big announcements at these expos is seriously hurting companies PR wise. I know Square Enix has been getting some comments on FFXIV and there was that stupid EA Dante's Inferno thing. Welcome to the dark side of media circuses.

I'm not saying they'd appologize, and it's Valve's fault for doing bad PR. I'm not saying I'd do better, but from what I know about PR you should be able to read into possible concerns and address them to minimize backlash. I don't think they did that effectively.

And its true they don't have to answer, but it would help the situation immensely.

Due to the strange size constrants on this board I shall continue down here from a thread further up

The obtuse kid said:

"Don't stay with Valve if you don't get what you want. What I'm saying is, don't act like they owe it to you, because you've bought one game from them, to give you more free stuff. You say you know you're not entitled, but you've been acting that way the whole time. They don't have to give you more than what you pay for, and you paid for L4D. They gave, out of the kindness of their hearts, an extra 2 campaigns for VS, and a survival mode and level for it.

You are MORE THAN WELCOME to not buy Left 4 Dead 2. Don't, if that's your wish. But don't act, like all those whiners are acting, like they should make a special concession, drop the price of the game, or give you more things for free, just because you bought Left 4 Dead. I own every Final Fantasy, including FFIV; after years, but I'm not demanding Nintendo give me the next chapter for free. I'm willing to pay the 300 points per chapter. I know I'm not entitled.

On the other hand, these people are signing petitions and writing a manifesto DEMANDING that they get their way or they won't buy. But you know what? Don't demand you get your way. Either buy or don't buy, but don't act like a company owes you free stuff.

That was my whole point. I've repeated it CONSTANTLY. If you don't want to buy, don't buy. But don't act like they owe you free stuff."

Who said anything about free stuff? As I said earlier I would like some new content for L4D to allow me to regain a shred of intrest I had for the game the first week I owned it. I would be willing to pay $10-$20 for a new campaign. Also like I said earlier I would be willing to pay $1 to have Mercy Fucking Hospital permanently deleted from my hard drive with no chance for reinstall so that I will never have the chance to even accidently look at those halls which I am sick to HELL of.

I am a customer with money, but if Valve so chooses to thumb thier collective noses at me, then I will take my money elsewhere. But people like you and that knuckle dragger Sessler seem to think that we should just shut up and take it. Well sorry, I am not going to bend over for Vavle like you, Sessler, Wormdundee, the fucking rest of you. I am NOT going to buy L4D2. If you have a problem with that, oh well.

Don't give me a new game. Finish what you started, if I have to pay you more than once to get one complete game, so be it. But I am not going to buy a new game when the original is still so fucking beta.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Valve did finish what they started. They released a finished game. They then released some DLC for the game. Therefore, they did more than finish what they started. They then started a new game.

Also, nobody said they wouldn't continue to make stuff for Left 4 Dead. You're just assuming that's what will happen because your a whiny little bitch. You and your ilk have yet to counter this particular argument.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

You call that a complete game? Really now? So I assume that you weren't pissed when you saw a mere four fucking campaigns. Really now? Maybe in a few years from now I will consider buying L4D2 once there is enough content for the original to be a complete game. Whether or not I have to pay for that content I don't care. Make me not loathe the original and you might get me to buy the sequel.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Right. And three quarters is more than one dollar because there are more of them right? I would say that I could have played each campaign through in one night if I so decided to, and would have beaten them and been sick to hell of them by sunrise.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

The point is these little mini-episodes masquarading as campaigns don't do it for most people. Add in the pathetic weapon selection and the tedious quips and you have yourself one hell of a demo for a greater game.

This "game" really should have started with ten campaigns with the choice to buy more afterwards. With such a dissapointing first game, why should anyone bother with the sequel?

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Again, if you think this game sucks so bad, sell it, and rent before you buy in the future. Until then, stop acting like the world owes you. Until you do something that contributes to society, the world doesn't owe you shit. Before you say you do, the fact of the matter is the only thing that anyone with an entitlement mentality has contributed is a country trillions in dollars in debt.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

What was lacking? Aside from the content not being as much as you think it should be, and the lack of DLC that you think you should get, what was missing from the game that makes Valve the new scourge of the gaming industry?

You have yet to offer any answers that are actually accepted by 1 percent of the L4D community, much less enough for any company to care.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

Go play any demo of any game and tell me what is lacking and you will have your answer. The game really should have started in the realm of 10 campaigns and then sold addon packs after that. But instead we get offered a sequel? Give me a break. I bet that only half of what they said will be in L4D2 will actually be in the game, and on the day it's released they will announce L4D3. And Valve will be sitting on a pile of our money and flipping us the bird.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

And what actual evidence do you have to support your theory? Because they made a game you don't like, and didn't support it you your satisfaction? You're fucking pathetic. VALVE DOESN'T WORK FOR YOU! YOU DON'T OWN THEM!

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

You are a waste of time. I have no time to deal with someone who can't have, or let someone have a negative opinion of a product.

Now since your panties are officially twisted, I shall help get you back to your happy place: Everyone likes Valve. Valve has never and can never make a mistake. We would gladly give any amount of money for anything that Valve offers us for the money regardless of the product. There is no boycott because no one would ever boycott Valve.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

There's a difference between having a negative opinion of a product, and saying that because you bought said product the developer owes you stuff. There's a difference between that and saying because you bought said product the developer MUST give you free shit. Between that and saying that because you bought said product the developer must submit to your will and your will alone (even though you are part of a SEVERE minority).

I'm not saying Valve can do no wrong. I'm saying that, until they actually do something wrong, cut them some slack. You don't know that more DLC is not coming.

Would you take back all of the shit you said if it did? I doubt it, because people like you never do. I would, however, take back every defense of Valve I've made here if somebody, ANYBODY, could direct me to actual evidence that more DLC isn't coming, such as an announcement by Valve that they are dropping L4D.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

Oh more DLC is coming. Another fucking slap in the face at that. Oh dev tools, big fucking deal. So while they are working on another incomplete game they expect the pissant mod community to scrabble together their work for them. Too bad 99.99% of homebrew crap is shit and the rest is mediocre.

But no, I shall NOT cut them slack. I've not cut any company any slack yet so why should they be the exception.

As far as your comments about Barack I really can't stand the man. He keeps shoveling OUR money at these companies. I thought that was the copyright of the republican party to screw us to benefit the financial elite. Though he is a bit more sane as far as foreign policy. Even though he does have to deal with the leftovers Bush forcing North Korea into nuclear armamanet. Basicly Barack is the least warlike Republican president we've ever had.

But really you should go to your happy place where everyone loves Valve and they can never make any mistake. It will make you happier and get you out of our hair.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

You think Obama's a Republican? You obviously don't understand shit about politics. Republicans generally don't want government involvement in corporations at all. That's what Democrats and Communists want.

As far as your last statement, if you didn't want people getting in your hair, maybe you should have kept your mouth shut. You chose to speak, and now you are facing the consequences, specifically people pointing out the fallicies of your statements.

Freedom of speech means the freedom to say ANYTHING, so long as it is the truth. This does not exclude anything that might hurt someone's feelings.

Wait, so your solution is for people to buy several hundred dollars worth of hardware so that they can rent a game that is not necessarily going to be the same from platform to platform? How is this a more reasonable course of action than asking the company to deliver the product/service their own corporate officers said they were selling you?

Now try to pay attention. I am not asking for a hand out. I am asking for the opportunity to pay money in return for Vavle to complete this game. This is not entitlement, this is me expecting Valve to act like a fucking business and take my fucking money.

-Ultimately what will do in mankind is a person's fear of their own freedom-

Infophile: @Matt: Apparently Dan Aykroyd actually is involved. We don't know how yet, though, but he's apparently going to be in the movie in some way.08/02/2015 - 4:17am

Mattsworkname: I still hold that not having the origonal cast invovled in any way hurts this movie, and unless the 4 actresses in the lead roles can some how measure up to the comic timing of the origonal cast, i just don't see it being a success08/02/2015 - 12:46am

Mattsworkname: Mecha: regardless of what you think of it, GB 2 was a finanical success and for it time did well with audiances ,even if it wasnt as popular as the first08/02/2015 - 12:45am

MechaTama31: I think they're better off trying to do something different, than trying to be exactly the same and having every little difference held up as a shortcoming. Uncanny valley.08/01/2015 - 11:57pm

MechaTama31: Having the original cast didn't do much for... that pink-slimed atrocity which we must never speak of.08/01/2015 - 11:56pm

Mattsworkname: Andrew: If the new ghostbusters bombs, I cant help but feel it'll be cause it removed the origonal cast and changed the formula to much08/01/2015 - 8:31pm

Andrew Eisen: Not the best look but that appears to be a PKE meter hanging from McCarthy's belt.08/01/2015 - 7:34pm

Mattsworkname: You know what game is a lot of fun? rocket league. It' s a soccer game thats actually fun to play cause your A Freaking CAR!08/01/2015 - 7:02pm

Mattsworkname: Nomad colossus did a little video about it, showing the world and what can be explored in it's current form. It's worth a look, and he uses text for commentary as not to break the immerison08/01/2015 - 5:49pm

Mattsworkname: I feel some more mobility would have made it more interesting and I feel that a larger more diverse landscape with better graphiscs would help, but as a concept, it interests me08/01/2015 - 5:48pm

Andrew Eisen: Huh. I guess I'll have to check out a Let's Play to get a sense of the game.08/01/2015 - 5:47pm

Mattsworkname: It did, I found the idea of exploring a world at it's end, exploring the abandoned city of a disappeared alien race and the planets various knooks and crannies intriqued me.08/01/2015 - 5:46pm

Andrew Eisen: Did it appeal to you? If so, what did you find appealing?08/01/2015 - 5:43pm

Mattsworkname: Its an interesting concept, but it's not gonna appeal to everyone thats for sure,08/01/2015 - 5:40pm

Andrew Eisen: That sounds horrifically boring. Doesn't sound like an interesting use of its time dilation premise either. 08/01/2015 - 5:36pm