Go to page

Go to page

Gold Member

im disappointed in sony ,theyr system looks about 20% weaker, most games probably wont do 4k native,which is a joke as its a console meant for over 5 years and many ppl have 4k tvs, I might have to go with xbox this gen if they don't announce ps2 backwards compatibility with 4k resolution and automatic upgrades like xbox is doing ,xbox has way more incentives from the outset tbh with upscaled and upgraded old games ,sony doesn't seem to care to give us choice but push their blurry ps now service

Why do you guys criticize people about their inaccurate predictions or what they heard to the point where you act like they did this to you on purpose to get your hopes up? We don't know what was told to them at all. They could have been malicious and then again maybe not.

Ray tracing is going to be the next step towards photorealism & I seriously doubt either console will be able to maintain the 4K 60fps target once the visual upgrades come rolling within a year or two (do people really think Bethesda will deliver an ultra stable Elder Scrolls VI with minor differences between the Series X & PS5? I don't). I fully expect to see the usual differences in pixels, assets, textures, performance & all he usual bells & whistles once the generation gets into full swing. We're a long, long way from those diminishing returns (imagine Avatar the movie & compare that to stuff like The Last of Us 2... yeah, we're nowhere near that level of detail, lighting & animation yet in a game).

Member

Gold Member

im disappointed in sony ,theyr system looks about 20% weaker, most games probably wont do 4k native,which is a joke as its a console meant for over 5 years and many ppl have 4k tvs, I might have to go with xbox this gen if they don't announce ps2 backwards compatibility with 4k resolution and automatic upgrades like xbox is doing ,xbox has way more incentives from the outset tbh with upscaled and upgraded old games ,sony doesn't seem to care to give us choice but push their blurry ps now service

I know it's foolish to make linear comparisons when it comes to compute, but this thing is literally almost ten times more powerful with exceedingly faster I/O in storage and memory. Of course it will crank out games in 4K, or if not, you won't notice the minimal upscaling. I mean hell it's probably going to be $400 - what did you expect? Not trying to be rude but fuck dude, just look at the side by side comparison. This is like going from a Nokia brick to an iPhone.

Edit: also, we're going to get a PS5 Pro. It's inevitable. Will probably come out a year later or so.

Member

How'd you get that conclusion? 10.3 and 12.1 is what's available as max power for devs to use. He's basically saying PS5 will have 10.3, and it's upto devs to use it's full power or not. Just like it is every gen. It doesn't mean it goes up and down and likely 9.5 :/

If devs are only using 5tf of it, it doesn't mean it's a 5tf machine.

I think I did my maths wrong before. So at 10.2 and 12.1, the XSX has 17.5% more TF. I hope I did it right this time. Still closer to 15% than 25%. How'd you guys get 25%? Because 10.3 + 25% = 12.87, say 12.9.

Member

I think it’s a safe bet that the clocks will run a fair bit lower quite often. Otherwise they might as well have just locked it at 2.1GHz or something.

So my guess is the sustained average is more like 9.5TF+. I think they felt PR wise they needed to be over 10TF, so a variable boost was the only way. I don’t believe for a second that this was the preferred design decision.

8 tf probably gets you 4K 60 fps in many current gen games. But that would be like saying the PS4's 1.8 tf gets you 1080p 60 fps in the God of War 3 remaster of the ps3 game. It didn't mean most other current gen ps4 games were anywhere near the 60 fps mark. Visuals improve, textures get more detailed & the stress placed on the hardware is much greater. That's why God of War 2018 didn't hit that 60 fps mark. They'd have needed to dial back the visuals a lot in order to do so.

Member

I think it’s a safe bet that the clocks will run a fair bit lower quite often. Otherwise they might as well have just locked it at 2.1GHz or something.

So my guess is the sustained average is more like 9.5TF+. I think they felt PR wise they needed to be over 10TF, so a variable boost was the only way. I don’t believe for a second that this was the preferred design decision.

I don't think that's necessarily true: listening to Cerny, it seems like he was concerned about power drawing and how loud the PS4 was. So he reversed the formula: instead of changing power draw based on the locked frequency, he's now changing frequency based on that locked power draw (that relates to the cooling solution)

Gold Member

I think it’s a safe bet that the clocks will run a fair bit lower quite often. Otherwise they might as well have just locked it at 2.1GHz or something.

So my guess is the sustained average is more like 9.5TF+. I think they felt PR wise they needed to be over 10TF, so a variable boost was the only way. I don’t believe for a second that this was the preferred design decision.

That's what WCCFTech is saying (my previous post).
Cerny painted it as doing us a favor and saving electricity and making the system last longer and only use what it's needed.
Did we ever have a CPU throttling down or GPU in a console? I thought everything was fixed or has been previously then this happens.

Member

8 tf probably gets you 4K 60 fps in many current gen games. But that would be like saying the PS4's 1.8 tf gets you 1080p 60 fps in the God of War 3 remaster of the ps3 game. It didn't mean most other current gen ps4 games were anywhere near the 60 fps mark. Visuals improve, textures get more detailed & the stress placed on the hardware is much greater. That's why God of War 2018 didn't hit that 60 fps mark. They'd have needed to dial back the visuals a lot in order to do so.

Gold Member

8 tf probably gets you 4K 60 fps in many current gen games. But that would be like saying the PS4's 1.8 tf gets you 1080p 60 fps in the God of War 3 remaster of the ps3 game. It didn't mean most other current gen ps4 games were anywhere near the 60 fps mark. Visuals improve, textures get more detailed & the stress placed on the hardware is much greater. That's why God of War 2018 didn't hit that 60 fps mark. They'd have needed to dial back the visuals a lot in order to do so.

Member

8 tf probably gets you 4K 60 fps in many current gen games. But that would be like saying the PS4's 1.8 tf gets you 1080p 60 fps in the God of War 3 remaster of the ps3 game. It didn't mean most other current gen ps4 games were anywhere near the 60 fps mark. Visuals improve, textures get more detailed & the stress placed on the hardware is much greater. That's why God of War 2018 didn't hit that 60 fps mark. They'd have needed to dial back the visuals a lot in order to do so.

that's bullshit tho, i mean yeah if you play at low-medium details maybe...
even a 2080ti suffer with a lot of heavy games at 4k60 and that gpu is 13++ tf...
thinking that 8 are enough is pure daydreaming.
my 2070super is around 9-10 tf and i can't play almost anything at 4k60 frame.

Member

I don't think that's necessarily true: listening to Cerny, it seems like he was concerned about power drawing and how loud the PS4 was. So he reversed the formula: instead of changing power draw based on the locked frequency, he's now changing frequency based on that locked power draw (that relates to the cooling solution)

Member

a question to the more technical people, when df or other channel are gonna make comparison or game analysis, are they capapble of measure the variable clock of the ps5 during gaming? like can they say how much time he stay at 2.2 and when it has to clock down? or we can only trust cerny's word about "most of the time is gonna be max clock"?!

Neo Member

Ray tracing is going to be the next step towards photorealism & I seriously doubt either console will be able to maintain the 4K 60fps target once the visual upgrades come rolling within a year or two (do people really think Bethesda will deliver an ultra stable Elder Scrolls VI with minor differences between the Series X & PS5? I don't). I fully expect to see the usual differences in pixels, assets, textures, performance & all he usual bells & whistles once the generation gets into full swing. We're a long, long way from those diminishing returns (imagine Avatar the movie & compare that to stuff like The Last of Us 2... yeah, we're nowhere near that level of detail, lighting & animation yet in a game).

I meant we're experiencing diminishing returns of raw shader throughput (SIMD brute force) on visual fidelity. Ray-tracing throughput (think rays/s) will be the new TFLOPS in the coming years. You are correct that we are definitely nowhere near experiencing diminishing returns on rays/s of visual improvement. To get even close to Avatar like graphics we will need probably more than 10 times the rays/s that the 2080Ti can handle, and even then a lot of effects will have to be faked. I believe that going forward we will always need fixed function pipelines for ray intersection though. The ray-AABB and ray-triangle intersection tests just don't vectorize efficiently (lots of early exit branches) and that is why even GPU with huge SIMD shader TFLOPS sucks at raytracing unless it has fixed function intersection pipelines.

Banned

Why do you guys criticize people about their inaccurate predictions or what they heard to the point where you act like they did this to you on purpose to get your hopes up? We don't know what was told to them at all. They could have been malicious and then again maybe not.

Member

I think the PS5 will be the Fast and the XsX will be the Furious! Sony knows how to price their system and they have the right strategy in making the mid-gen or follow up systems more powerful and efficient. MS not so much (even though they did a great job with the X except for it's pricing). But I can't wait for the next gen system and games!

Member

Another person who didn't understand what they were watching. That SSD is virtually double the speed of Series X SSD and he explained how the games due to not having to replicate assets will not be as large and will allow partial installs etc. You also know sweet FA about that GPU or any other technical hardware. Go build the same thing for $299 lol. God can ppl really be this dumb.

Banned

Vindication is a beautiful thing. Those of us who were confident the PS5 was a 36 CU GPU got absolutely trashed by certain members here. Most of whom have disappeared, except one who is acting like he was never a stooge and posting away like all is good.
Logical people were always going to go with actual evidence like Github, while others would cling to the heresay of some so called insiders who just made up bullshit for 5 minutes of fame.
As others have said, the Mods seemed to ignore the Sony peeps who were waring, yet few MS peeps escaped the ban hammer. But hey, life's not fair so you just deal with it.
We have people here who faked that they were insiders, told bullshit stories of knowing specs and playing next gen games, and yet when the smoke clears they arnt banned? Strange that.
Oh well.

But as I said for months, Sony we're caught short with a console they intended to launch 12 months earlier and were playing with clocks to try and close the gap.
They have to respected for managing to get that GPU to 2.2ghz. No one would have thought that possible. They did the best they could.
No VRS for PS5, and those thinking it will be a $100 cheaper are in for another rude shock.
The money it takes to get a SSD to run that quick is more than the extra die space to fit an extra 16CUs on it, not to mention the extra cooling cost to stop a 2.2ghz GPU from catching fire.

Well done to MS, you nailed it.
And those of you who thought that Sonys silence was because they were confident and doing everything at their own leisure, well you learnt that companies want to control the narrative and they would not have allowed the negative talk around the PS5.....unless it was correct.

Member

I think everyone should wait and see the difference in performance because they were very different approaches between the two consoles. I bet 3rd party games will still run almost exactly the same, not like between X and Pro and I guarantee with that PS5 SSD, the Playstation Exclusives will be much more advanced and be able to push the boundaries a lot more. I think with the PS5 SSD, the series X will actually hold it back with 3rd party titles being double the speed of Series X SSD. It does really make a difference with how they develop games. The 12.1 v 10.3 Teraflop debate is ridiculous. It doesn't necessarily mean the Series X is so much more powerful.

Banned

Obsession with tflops is so dumb, consoles are so optimized the idea that titles would be allowed to perform with frame rate drops in this day and age is goofy. Mark my words, this will be no big deal. I'm liking their SSD and expandable storage~

Gold Member

I think everyone should wait and see the difference in performance because they were very different approaches between the two consoles. I bet 3rd party games will still run almost exactly the same, not like between X and Pro and I guarantee with that PS5 SSD, the Playstation Exclusives will be much more advanced and be able to push the boundaries a lot more. I think with the PS5 SSD, the series X will actually hold it back with 3rd party titles being double the speed of Series X SSD. It does really make a difference with how they develop games. The 12.1 v 10.3 Teraflop debate is ridiculous. It doesn't necessarily mean the Series X is so much more powerful.

It's a bigger difference than the current gen consoles. Right now you're not seeing many native 4K games on the PS4 Pro, while it's somewhat common on the X. The gap is even bigger between the new systems.

Member

People are forgetting that this is the base Ps5 where Xbox have gone straight out with their pro series. If they price it right it will sell more and in the following year they will release their pro version for the power hungry freaks out there. Well this is my take anyways....

Gold Member

Obsession with tflops is so dumb, consoles are so optimized the idea that titles would be allowed to perform with frame rate drops in this day and age is goofy. Mark my words, this will be no big deal. I'm liking their SSD and expandable storage~