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Mags are uniqe in there very own way, AGD might behind in the "times" but my RT mag is still faster than any electro out there... (excluding the emag or x-mag, those are just a we bit FASTER!) I wouldn't really say they are "behind" because AGD has so many, kick *** products that no other company has ever made. They arn't really behind in my opionion. Just going about the buisness another way thats all.

and agd was always ahead of their time, heard of this thing called compressed air and nitrogen, ya that was tom, intelifeeding, tom, tom pakaged agitating hoppers with mags back in the day. agd was always ahead of its time, other companys and thier patrons are too obseesed with what is "now" and see everything else as stupid. AGD is obsesed with what can be, and will always be looking back at what everyone else is doing.

"You have not converted a man because you have silenced him." -John Morley

imo, and i am a high priest in the kult of kaye, so take it for what its worth...the rt valve was light years ahead of the rest of the industry...they have just come on par with its speed, but whats not even close yet for all of them is durrability. there are 6 year old rt valves still kickin it at 26bps. i had an impulse for a year...in that time i had to replace the solenoid 2 times.

tom as the president, and agd as a company will not go the cheap disposable route. tom has said as much personally to whoever will listen. he has even tongue in cheek complained that he makes products that last too long so he doesnt sell as many markers as other companies...and thats why we love agd.

sure he could make a hammer/valve/noid gun similar to the impulse, bm, or intimidator. it would be fast, and light, and all the hype....but not last as long as a mag. thats what its about for agd. tom wont copy the mainstream just to have another flash in the pan clone of a clone that will burn itself up within a year or two.

i think the spool valve idea or even a valveless idea like the epic will be the long term future of PB...and im sure tom is working on his own take (or maybe even something totally new) that will eclipse the rt valve for longevity and performance.

i would like to see a company improve upon a valve with three moving parts and make it better. sure thing, when will that happen? its been working pretty well for a while now and will still be going 10 years from now.

Look, as good as the valve is, is AGD rests on its laurels it will get passed by. Innovation is the life blood of any company in this industry.

Personally, I think AGD should keep the valve, but make a new electro design that does NOT utilize the huge battery and the sear. I think a conventional design using a small bettery and a small solenoid would make the mag the lightweight champion. Think about it, imagine what tiny valve like the X-valve could be like in a setup like that?

Personally the ONLY thing I think they need to do is work on effeciency and marketing...

Mags aren't gas hogs, but hey, everyone could use more shots per tank.

Ever wonder why the roller triggers didn't take off? Because no one outside of AO knew about them! Heck, I completely forgot they were there until I wanted to buy one and they weren't in the store anymore!

They have the speed, the flashy good looks, and consistency now all we need is the ability to get 4 cases out of a 48/3k tank... and for everyone to know it.

Hey Zero, how much did that Chipley cost ya?

Originally said by BoggermanWhen I got married I thought it would go down too... The insurance, not the wife.

Originally posted by Prairie Yes...I know the emag is a top notch electro...

But speed wise, and trigger wise it isnt exactly a favorable electro...you definetly see many more intimidators and impulses at the field than emags.

I'm not bashing emags/mags..so no need to 'AO Bash' me.

But are more people using Timmys rather than E-Mags because they're actually better markers, or because they're more fashionable?

Btw this isn't an 'AO Bash', like you I'm expressing my opinion...which is that regardless of whatever is flavour of the month with the easily swayed, E and X-Mags are as good a marker as money can buy.

Look, as good as the valve is, is AGD rests on its laurels it will get passed by. Innovation is the life blood of any company in this industry.

How much genuine innovation has actually happened in valve design in the last 5...or 10 years? Virtually every marker out there is using a valve which has its origins in the early 90s. Unless there are some advances in the materials that can be used or the way power can be generated, you're not going to see any great leaps in valve design - designs will continue to evolve, but I doubt we will see any revolutionary new designs any time soon.

If there was no innovation, there would be no difference between markers. The fact is, there is a world of difference between, say, a mag and a viking. I think AGD has a lot to offer in terms of technology, they just need to try and improve some things to match the needs of the market. I think the X-mag is a step in the right direction.

Do they need to start producing stack-tube blowbacks? No. Can they keep trying to rely on classics to carry the company? No.

most innovation in the last year or so is software driven. intimidators shoot as fast as they do because of shot buffering in the software...and soon e/x mags will have shot buffering also. it doesnt really count as innovation, but it will put the king back on the throne.

Mags are not better than any other hight-end marker. They have thier own special advantages, just like any other marker, and find their own way of getting to the same end result: shooting paintballs. We must be careful to not assume that other markers are inferior becasue they use different designs.

The fact is, there is a world of difference between, say, a mag and a viking.

Well yes, the Viking looks like it was welded together from spare M1 tank parts ....but on the performance side? Sure the Viking is more gas efficient....but ROF, accuracy, consistency? Not much between the two tbh.

more innovation has gone on at AGD in the last 2 years than any other company in paintball...
heck...level 10 alone, to me anyway, sets them above all others as a foolproof(as long as it's setup properly), mechanical anti-chopping device

Right, I'm on my fourth mag right now, and don't see myself giving it up anytime soon...

But There are guns that are just as fast, just as consistant, just as reliable, just as if not more effecient, from companies that are just as good as AGD... The mag was better engineered... 5 years ago... the rest of the industry is catching up quick and can offer a product that can match and/or beat AGD's specs.

Heck, my dream gun is an X-Mag, but its naieve for us to assume that it'll be on top forever...

As was mentioned, the only real innovations from other companies have things like the spool valve or valvless designs. Oherwise, most companies are using what are essentially the same systems that they have been using since the mid-nineties. In most cases, these companies have simply found ways to tweak a little bit more performance out of designs, and have added electronics.

Now, one had mentioned that Tom CAN'T rest on the current valve design. Well, it is possible that he isn't, and just hasn't mentioned anything, as it would be too early. On the flipside, just what is so bad about the current valve, anyway?

Let us examine the current state. We have the aluminum X-Valve. No one, so far as I have heard, has ever been able to get it to shoot-down (unless it is short stroked). With level 10, it is nearly impossible to chop decent paint. Being aluminum, it is very lightweight. It also goes without saying that it is compact, and sturdy to boot.

So, what we have here is a valve system that is faster than anyone will ever be able to shoot, lightweight, chop-free, small, and durable. I fail to see the problems here.

Of course, it is impossible to say that there are not a couple of shortcomings.

One person mentioned the large solenoid/battery. Of course, when your marker is half the size of the average marker, it is hard to really call this a problem, but lets just say that it is. This is needed because of the pull-weight. Lower the weight, and you can use smaller components, correct? Well, if the ULE trigger can effectively slice the weight of the pull by two-thirds, then that will be achieved. I do believe Tom was considering this possiblity. So, in this respect, Tom IS progressing. We may see a smaller solenoid/battery in the near future.

The only two other problems I can think of are short-strokability, and efficiency.

For the short-stroke, there is the electronic frame. Unless we are all forced to go back to mech, you might as well consider that point moot for most players. It would still be a potential problem for mech users, but who knows? Is it not possible that there could be devised a mechanical update to stop this? The RT certainly helps this problem, perhaps Tom may work on that in the future.

As far as efficiency goes, I can't say. Now, with higher-pressure 5K tanks, it shouldn't be as much of a problem, unless you are firing 2000 rounds per game. Of course, it is still nagging for those backyard players who don't have fill stations of SCUBAs for all-day play. But, again, it is presumptuous to say that Tom isn't working on this.

And, finally, to reiterate a previous point, only Tom can say whether or not he trying to progress. We don't know what he is thinking up; we don't know what intimate knowledge he alone is privy to (unless you have tapped into the collective unconscious). He takes criticism seriously, and as such is probably hard at work thinking of all he can to silence the complaints.

So, I think that I have demonstrated that most problems with the current valve are mostly perceived, as well as the notion that AGD rests on their laurels. It is possible there may be some new stuff in the works, or it may be possible that Tom is simply working to perfect the current system. If the later is true, I see no reason why the current valve would not have longevity beyond the present. And, even if he doesn't iron out the wrinkles, I think that the current valve will still be a valid system for years to come.

Mags behind the times!

This guy is not the only one who has told me this BS. Last time I was at Cousins (a local paintball store) the guy kept telling me yeah he knew mags were good, but the technology is old! Even if that were true, its not, why would that matter if the guns shoots the way you want and is well built. Hell look at all the vehicles most Americans are driving now. These SUVs are based on OLD technology of a body on frame. Do you see people not buying them? Most of these guys in the sport have a bad image of the mags and I say the hell with em. Let em think that and We will still be the wiser.

I think what he means about being a step behind is that Low Pressure is the latest and greatest stuff, and AGD doesn't have a LP gun yet.

If technology keeps improving at the current rate, I am sure that AGD will have a LP gun in 4 years (sub-200psi if they decide to take that route). The Level 10 is a great help, lets the bolt think it is a "LP" gun when it really isn't. So soft on the paint!

What AGD has done, IMO, is take their "old guns" and make them brand spanking new time and time again. The innovations (LX bolt, ULE equip) that come from AGD influence the entire paintball world. I would almost be willing to say that Tom would love to make the current valve LP, R&Ding an attatchment piece and is trying his damndest to do it. I would have to say AGD is ahead of techology, but behind in the "What's Popular at the moment" idea.

Ok - you have guns on the market now that can outshoot anyones ability to pull the trigger, and hoppers that will nearly keep up with them. Fully auto is banned. We have proven that accuracy is paint to barrel match (I was hitting a 2" steel pipe at 50 feet consistantly with my X-valved, CP .689 barrel, and marbalizer today). What more could you want from a gun. The only possible improvements i see in guns in the future is efficiency(or a new propulsion system entirely). Valveless and spool valves (while I will admit I know nothing about them) can do little more than the same thing valves today do - propel the paintball.

"Unless someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. Its not" - Dr Suess