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Hmmm. Wasn’t this the same religious right that said we should keep Terri Schiavo alive as long as possible? Is there any consistancy to this?

daveSeptember 13, 2011 at 5:48 pm -

Transcript? Can’t watch video right now

Evan HurstSeptember 13, 2011 at 5:51 pm -

Click on the h/t, it should be there.

Chris L.September 13, 2011 at 6:06 pm -

Funny how the fundamentalists abandon their very own doctrine when they get into those very difficult real world situations that cannot be solved by quoting a Bible verse (like they do towards gays).

Biblical doctrine basically says that you can *only* divorce your wife if she has committed adultery.

What a hypocrite, although I am tempted to give Pat Robertson a bit of faint praise for acknowledging that “sola scriptura” just doesn’t cut it in this case.

emmaSeptember 13, 2011 at 6:22 pm -

I can’t help wonder if he thinks that a woman whose husband has Alzheimers should dump him?

John PatrickSeptember 13, 2011 at 6:28 pm -

Wow! I guess if Pat gets Altzheimers his wife can divorce him. Or maybe Nancy Reagan should have divorced Ronald. What’s this “for better or for worse” vow Pat took all about?

Bill SSeptember 13, 2011 at 6:56 pm -

emma, that was my first thought too. I’m absolutely certain if the genders were reversed, his answer would have been different.
Reese, good point about Schiavo.
As for this story, I wonder if the couple have children. My guess would be they do. I wonder how they feel about old Pat telling their dad to ditch their mom?
Final thought: there really is no limit to Robertson’s assholery, is there?

PhilipJSeptember 13, 2011 at 8:05 pm -

Doesn’t this topic really fit well with Evan’s post earlier about a husband choosing his wife without her having a say in the matter? If this man can choose his wife, then he can certainly “unchoose” her when she has Alzheimers.

Sadly, I agree with the posters who said that if the genders were reversed, that ole Pat would be telling the wife to stay with her husband. Just goes to show that men are in charge, men are everything, but a woman is NOTHING without a husband.

Bose in St. Peter MNSeptember 13, 2011 at 8:16 pm -

Robertson’s concern appears to be related to adultery (that the husband is already seeing another woman), but it confuses me that he’d rather see the guy divorced (and I assume, remarried to the new person).

My guess is that his compassion and empathy toward the man is borne of experience — that close friends have had marriages ravaged by Alzheimer’s.

As admirable as I find that compassion to be, it’s also what infuriates me. In all the years of blaming gays for 9/11 and natural disasters, fighting to deny them any civil rights, has he never gotten to know a few us up close?

I fully expect a clarification/retraction to follow soon.

Bill SSeptember 13, 2011 at 8:27 pm -

Bose, no LGBT person would WANT to be friends with this guy if given a choice. Pat screwed himself out any chance for that DECADES ago.

Kitty and Peter-I’ve felt that way since I was in junior high (now called middle school). My liberal friends and I have always said that conservatives don’t give a s**t about other people *until* they’re the ones affected by (fill in the blank). If Reagan hadn’t gotten Alzheimer’s, we never would have heard a peep out of Nancy supporting stem cell research. And when those sociopath teabaggers at the GOP debate said, ‘yeah let him die’, about someone with catastrophic illness and no medical insurance; my first thought was- but of course if it were they or someone in their family, they’d be the first ones with their hands wide open to receive money from ‘socialist’ assistance programs.

Reese MSeptember 14, 2011 at 10:29 am -

@ Kitty, Peter and Gary,

I know that reading some of this stuff is dispressing, but we musn’t give up on this world, or humanity, because this is the only reality we can be certain of.

Don’t forget all the good, wonderful things that go on in this world. Yes, gays, transgendered people and other sexual minorities do not have full equality yet, but think of how far we have come since only two decades ago. In 1991, would it have even been concievable that someone like Chaz Bono would be cast in a nationally syndicated television show? Gays can now serve openly in the military. And lets not forget the progress we have made in the rights of women and racial minorities in recent decades. Remeber, most blacks were SLAVES less than 200 years ago, and today we have a black president!

Progress is being made today, as it is always made, slowly but surely. What we are witnessing is the right fighting a loosing battle, at least when it comes to gay rights. They will only fight harder as their chances of victory become more dim, but I am certain that they will eventually lose.

Yes, there are other issues at stake, such as the role government pays in providing a safety net, that must be addressed, but at least on the front of rights for sexual minorities we are winning. Don’t be discouraged. Remember, we are on the side of truth, and as we all know, truth wins out.

Gary (NJ)September 14, 2011 at 11:27 am -

Reese, of course you’re right about all that, but we tend to get jaded as we age, especially when the country (if not the whole world) seems to be going to hell in a hand-basket with no end in sight. But I’m sure adults living in the 1930s and early 40s thought that they would never see ‘happy times’ again, but fortunately they were wrong.

Tony (not Troll Tony)September 14, 2011 at 1:52 pm -

“But I’m sure adults living in the 1930s and early 40s thought that they would never see ‘happy times’ again, but fortunately they were wrong.”

Oh yeah, like WWII and nuclear weapons and the Korean War and Vietnam and the Cold War and McCarthyism and and and….

Sorry, just not the optimist anymore.

Gary (NJ)September 14, 2011 at 2:33 pm -

But at least they had I Love Lucy. ;-)

DanielSeptember 14, 2011 at 3:04 pm -

Tony, things aren’t great, but as a child of parents who were alive (though young) during the Great Depression–things did get better after it was over. You may not be optimistic but you should look at facts. Though the things you listed there were bad there was not the starvation and unemployment (at least in this country) on the level that there were during the Depression. In addition to the finances the Depression took a toll on people’s spirits as well. If my father would have heard you say things didn’t get better or weren’t “happier” he would have given you an earful.

Reese MSeptember 14, 2011 at 3:21 pm -

Taking the long view, a believe it can be said that most Americans are better off today than the would be had they been born 200 years ago, especially if they are women and/or racial/sexual minorities. I think it is a reasonable assumption to believe that, if these trends continue, most sexual minorities will be legally and socially better off 200 years hence, if not sooner.

I think Pat Roberson is very wrong when he says that the man should divorce a marriage partner because they are sick. It is a sad day when a Minister says to leave your partner for someone that is healthier than your former partner. I believe Mr. Robertson should retract his statement publicly.
-Paul R Edelstein
Memphis, Tennessee

Peter HargmierSeptember 15, 2011 at 8:43 am -

@ Kitty, Gary and Reece

Things are indeed getting better for racial and sexual minorities, but injustice covers many bases. One might read of New York gaining marriage equality, but on the next page you might read of anther Bernie Maddoff ripping off thousands and leaving entire families bankrupt, or Syria cracking down on unarmed protesters by slaughtering them in the streets. Not to mention what is happening to LGBTQ rights across Africa at the mo. And don’t get me started on the Bankers…

As I get older, I realise there are a lot of good, decent people in the world, but the vast majority tend to be self-serving willfully ignorant arseholes.

TeresaSeptember 15, 2011 at 12:40 pm -

@Gary
I think it’s a human problem, not a conservative/liberal problem, that we tend to not care as much about others until we are touched by the same situation. Pat Robertson does NOT speak for me (I doubt he speaks for ANYONE other than himself!). He’s an embarrassment to anyone who believes in God, let alone someone who calls themselves a Christian! And those “teabaggers” are NOT the spokesmen for the liberty-minded supporters of Ron Paul, anymore than a perverted, disgusting child molester is the spokesman for the gay community. We should all work toward being less divisive, and have less name-calling, no matter which side of an issue we are on. Let’s call out the one person that is doing the evil.

Marys TouchSeptember 15, 2011 at 7:42 pm -

I am SO sorry! Please read this entire note from a VERY humbled heart who truly loves people in same-sex relationships. I AM SO sorry how “my” casual view of contraception, divorce & “re-marriage” … in the name of “following” Christ caused such confusion for people who are attracted to members of the same sex. Mr. Robertson’s comments is another example how “our” opinion or interpretation of Holy Scripture causes so much pain & havoc in the world!

Because of my own painful journey through understanding marriage, God’s will and how my sin affects the entire world, I attended a marriage rally earlier this year. I didn’t realize people from the “opposition” would be accross the street, and my heart was SO sad. They were SO angry, and I wanted to walk across the street and just hug them and say “I AM SO SORRY!” Let me explain: I grew up & was married in the Catholic Church years ago but left it to attend a popular “non-denomination” church, when my husband & I had severe marriage problems. We lived together before marriage and I was on the pill for years.
As a new Evangelical Christian, I saw the Catholic Church as old-fashioned & crazy & was trying to “save” them all! This other church advised I had a “biblical” divorce. There’s many details to this, but after YEARS of praying for a husband & having God answer that as “NO”, I was VERY frustrated. I was living a holy & celibate life & grew to love God even more during that time. My father told me I needed an annulment, and it pierced my heart and made me see him as an old fool.

Many people thought I would be a great pastors wife & I would have been VERY happy for that to happen.
I have a brother who I love dearly & struggles with same-sex attractions. Years ago, he asked a question that I prayed he would never ask: “Is homosexual sex a sin?” As lovingly as I could, putting my own sexual sins in the same line, I had to answer truthfully – yes, it is a sin.

I love my brother greatly, and thought about my own father, who years ago was not happy with me “living in sin”. I saw him as an old fool at the time, but after my divorce, I saw his love & wisdom. It was that same love that I spoke the truth with my brother. Sidenote: I know many “Christians” are “fine” with homosexual sex, but that would be like saying pre-marital, extra-marital…all other forms of sex, are not sin. But then, we first have to understand “sin”. We are ALL sinners who struggle in different areas. My cross is not your cross, but we are ALL called to live holy lives. Sin separates us from God. Granted…we are all sinners, and you & I know MANY Christians who do not live that way. But remember, we are all on a journey to discover truth and love. We HUNGER for love, it’s how God designed it. But the GREATEST love is from God and we feel it most when we are doing His will.

Now back to my story: My relationship with my brother has been very difficult since that conversation. I love him, but he has been cruel to me even though I have written him cards, baked him cookies…I have invited him to tell me why he is angry with me, but he rejects all invitations. At family parties, he often hugs everyone but me… It aches my heart. I didn’t offer my opinion years ago, “he” asked me…

While that relationship has been a painful cross to carry, I am SO grateful for it, as it helped me see more of MY sin, which I didn’t realize at the time. My divorce just about killed me & as much as I wanted to be married & have children, I didn’t want to marry outside of God’s will. I saw countless “Christian” friends get “re-married” at this church I attended, and I was frustrated with God, as “I” was living a holy & celibate life…why was He not answering “my” prayers for a husband? I wanted to be a good witness for Christ to everyone, but especially to my one brother & everyone else with same-sex attractions. After some time, I thought: If married couples who use birth control can have sex, how is homosexual sex different? It made me think. And then, I thought of the scripture that says God hates divorce, yet I saw many “Christians” be divorced & re-married. I wondered how that looks to someone who struggles with same-sex attraction? It ached my heart & made me all the more committed to not be married outside of God’s will. Mind you: VERY few people despised the Catholic Church more than I. I was trying to “save” every Catholic I knew. I was wounded by several people within the Church, which originally made me leave it when I was 14. I never understood that God loved me.

I worked at a Christian organization that was connected to that church I attended. I loved working there as we all came under the same roof in the name of Jesus. While that was beautiful at first, it fell apart after some time as everyone had their own interpretation of what Jesus said. If God didn’t change, “WHO” had the correct interpretation? I thought we looked like idiots to atheiests & weakened the gospel horrendously. It made me CRAZY – I was PASSIONATE to build unity – PASSIONATE. Souls were at stake.

When my Catholic mother died, before she left the Catholic Church as I prayed she would…I was DESPERATE to just understand the Catholic faith. I started listening to the Catholic radio station & went from being perplexed,to being humbled, to being ANGRY…and turning it off. Yet…I kept turning it on. It was TORMENTING. They were answering questions I didn’t realize I had, and some of those spoke directly to MY sins I didn’t see as sin – yet I HAD to listen as they also spoke about other peoples sins that I didn’t label before…but it all made sense!

Before my first conversion, I didn’t understand what “sin” was. When I learned that sin is going against God & causes myself and other people pain, I saw how getting drunk and having sex before marriage was sin, as I suffered greatly from both in various forms. It wasn’t until I started listening to the Catholic radio station, that I HUMBLY saw how other things were sin that I didn’t realize: artifical birth control and “re-marriage” after a divorce without an annulment. There’s a great article that helps understand the birth control: http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/sexuality/se0002.html

During my first conversion, I saw how pre-marital sex helped destroy my marriage, but the birth control sin issue wasn’t clear until much later. It was beyond humbling.

I learned: up until the 1930′s, ALL Christian denominations saw birth control as a sin. The Anglical/Espiscopal church was the first denomination to say otherwise. That “clicked” with me, as the Anglican/Episcopal church was also the first to acknowledge same-sex unions with their clergy. Birth control gave way to pre-marital sex, extra-marital sex, abortion, divorce…and now same-sex partners. It opened MY eyes – MY use of birth control, MY divorce & thinking I could easily be “re-married”…gave way to people who struggle with same-sex attractions to think same-sex sex is not sin. I AM SO SORRY! I didn’t realize.

With my new knowledge of MY sin that I didn’t realize when my brother asked me his question, my heart ACHED! Here I was, a “follower” of Christ, who at the time was thinking I could be re-married, and if I was I would have used birth-control! OH MY GOODNESS! No wonder he was upset with me. I was just as sinful as he was…and I was telling him his sins without seeing my own. God forgive me!

As I sought to build unity amongst Christians, I learned Church history and learned – to the degree we follow God’s truth as stated in TRUE Catholic Church teachings, is the degree in which our lives and the world will be beautiful. AHHHHH! If you only knew how I built up the anti-Catholic sentiments in the non-Catholic churches I attended.

When I returned to the Church, I thought I needed to get an annulment, but the Blessed Mother showed me otherwise. After MANY years of a civil divorce and no communication with my “husband”…who I didn’t realize WAS my husband all those years, the Blessed Mother showed me I am to re-commit to MY marriage! Imagine that! All those years, I thought I was single and even wanting to marry a Pastor, and NOW…I find out I’m still married. I love my husband, but we are VERY different. As I write this, he is a strong atheist, a smoker…many things OPPOSITE of me. YET…he is my husband. I love him and want him in heaven with me one day. You see – part of the role of marriage is to get each other to heaven. It’s been 2 years and we are still separated, but he is still my husband and will be until death. Marriage is SO important to our society and I screwed it up dearly. There is MUCH more to this story, but I am convicted to the core of my being to stay committed to this marriage forever, as doing otherwise (which I did for years) causes MANY people…and the world, pain, chaos, confusion. Souls are at stake.

You see, I had a MAJOR conversion at the church I attended that taught me I had a ‘biblical’ divorce. After my conversion, I thought – my husband and his family just need Jesus. And that was right, yet this church taught me I was free to divorce him because of his alcoholism. They were WRONG. All those years we were separated, I was not at peace. Oh, I had a temporary peace for a few years, but when we are in sin…even if we don’t know it, our hearts are not at rest. NOW…even though it’s difficult and I am sad that we are not fully reconciled, I cannot tell you how joyful and peaceful my heart is…because I am finally doing God’s will.

I know many so-called Christians and some who even call themselves Catholic…or priests, will say that same-sex relationships are not sin, but that is a lie. The sad thing is telling people that lie robs them of the greatest love they could ever know in Christ. The Church doesn’t condemn people in same-sex relationships, it wants to reach out to them and heal their hearts and bring them to full union with Christ. OH MY GOODNESS – just one confession. If anyone reading this is a baptized Catholic and it doesn’t make sense – just go to confession.

What no-one told me years ago, is if I had just gone to confession and stopped using birth control, our marriage would have been saved back then. But the Church was in a dark time with lots of crap going on with many people who were trying to destroy the Church.

God is giving me a second chance with my marriage and I pray to be a good witness to those who are in same-sex relationships. Just an FYI: I have a small business. If someone were to want my services for a same-sex “wedding”, I would have to refuse – out of my conviction for marriage being a sacrament. I could not do it. But…I also just refused my services for a Christian woman who is scheduled to “marry” a divorced man. I will NOT do my work for ANY “wedding’ that is not a true marriage – whether same-sex or adulterous.

Mr. Robertson’s comment is a result of people interpreting scripture on thier own. It’s not God’s plan. ALL Christians MUST be one, and Christians MUST start honoring their marriage commitment to help people in same-sex relationships see that they can never be “married”.

I know many people in the same-sex community are angry with Christians when we don’t support your unions, but it will not change. It can’t. God doesn’t change and it’s for our own good. He does it out of a loving heart, knowing what’s best for us. I know it doesn’t make sense, but that’s where faith and trust come in. And that comes from a woman who didn’t realize I was still married after many years of thinking I was single, and returning to a husband who is very different than I.

God’s ways are not our ways and our time here is SO short compared to eternity. He loves us SO much AND His love is SO much better than ANY human love we can have here. Our desire for sex is actual a deeper desire to connect with him. I was celibate for many years and my relationship with Christ grew SO much during that time. Even now with my husband, NO sex, no matter HOW enjoyable it is, can compare to being at peace with God and doing His will. God’s love to each of you, I wish I could give everyone who reads this a hug!

ox

dbSeptember 15, 2011 at 9:28 pm -

Oh Marys, that was such a load of crap. YOur brother is not sinning. He’s living his life as he should as a gay man who should be happy despite the religious bigotry of his sister. And it wasn’t birth control that ruined your marriage–to put it down to such a singular thing shows a lack of maturity. No matter how much you claim to love gay and lesbian people you can’t get over this religious indoctrination. The sad thing is you continue to justify your bigotry and cruelty claiming it’s “love”. It’s all crap Mary, total crap.

Becky (the real one)September 15, 2011 at 10:06 pm -

Mary, really, do you expect us to get all weepy about you rejecting and judging your brother? I have a sister just like you–she thinks she’s acting with love but she’s really acting with fear and anger. I speak to her as little as possible. Your brother has my sympathy.

Marys TouchSeptember 15, 2011 at 10:37 pm -

Dear db…Your comments show me you hurt inside and don’t have peace in your heart. I pray you do one day. love is patient, love is kind… Forgive my not explaining things clearly: My marriage breakdown was not just the use of birth control – it was many things that were a part of our culture…pre-marital sex on top of the birth control, as well as not going to confession, wounds from my childhood…you were right, it WAS several things and I apologize for not being clear. Dear db…it’s not “me” that says homosexual sex is a sin, it’s God, but He does it out of love, as He knows it (and ALL sin) will separate us from Him and His love IS the best! Just like a parent won’t let you eat candy for dinner because they love you and know what’s best for you. There’s a time and a place for it and some people who are diabetic can’t have candy at all, but they still have active, wonderful lives. I’ve personally known 2 people who have come out of the same-sex lifestyle – both beautiful people. It’s not that they didn’t struggle with same-sex attraction any more, they just made a choice to honor God with their body…like we are ALL called too – married or single. Married folks aren’t supposed to have sex with just anyone, and even then, they are to respect their spouse in the sexual realationship. Birth control ruins that as sex then just turns into “my” pleasure when “I” want it and it uses people. I suffered from that, as MANY women do (and men!).

God loves you db…just as you are.

1 Cor 6:9-10 speaks about MANY sins and is just one place in Holy Scripture that talks about various sins. Yes, “homosexual sex” is in there, but join the club! We’re ALL sinners! But that’s why Jesus came for us.

I wish I could sit with you and hear your heart and give you a BIG hug. That’s not crap db, that’s my heart. You might find this website interesting: http://couragerc.net/

Be sure to check out the personal stories. I wish you peace and pray the Lord blesses you abundantly!
And…I send you a BIG HUG! :)

Marys TouchSeptember 15, 2011 at 10:55 pm -

Dear Becky, I don’t know your sister, but I know I don’t have fear or anger with my brother. Fear hides and I don’t hide from him. And I don’t see him AS a “homosexual”. We are MUCH more than our sexual feelings. If someone is celibate, how do they introduce themselves? My brother is a gifted, smart and beautiful man – a child of God, who has many talents and much love inside. He’s a sensitive spirit who loves to help people and is very smart! I miss him. I would LOVE to spend time with him. If you have love, and no fear inside, I encourage you to reach out to your sister and just go have fun together – enjoy her for who she is and not what her sexual feelings are or aren’t. Please. My brother doesn’t hate “me”. Jesus warns that His truth divides and if they hated Him, people will hate us when we represent him. It’s just sad, as Satan came to steal, kill and destroy and that’s what this issue does to families. I didn’t ask my brother to ask me the question…he did it on my own. If I ask someone a question, I can’t be mad at them for their answer. I’m not mad at anyone here for their answer and I wouldn’t close the door on someone I love because they feel different than I do on a subject. I don’t always get a warm welcome when people know I’m separated from my husband, but I don’t shun them for what they think. I send you a big hug too Becky…God loves you just as you are too :)

Marys TouchSeptember 15, 2011 at 11:10 pm -

And by the way…I wasn’t clear: I don’t reject my brother at all. I invite him places, but he doesn’t come. You say I “judge” him, but you are confusing judgment with condemnation. I would never condemn him, but we all judge people – we’d be fools not too, otherwise I’d allow a theif to deposit cash in the bank for me. I have reached out to my brother more times than I can count, inviting him to let me know what I have done to hurt him. Yet, No response – that’s what happens when we’re in sin. Sin hides. I know…I’ve had much experience in the sinful/hiding arena! I’m not mad at him, I’m sad for him and it just hurts to not be in a relationship with him. I love him dearly and pray for him daily. I wish him nothing less than God’s best, as I do everyone reading this. I just miss my little brother. He used to help me alot years ago, and I long for the day we can be close again. BUT, I’ll always have hope as NOTHING is impossible with God -NOTHING! :) After writiing here, I think I’m due to send him another little note, just to let him know I love him. Thanks for the reminder folks! I’m going to bed now, hope you all have sweet dreams and get a good night’s sleep. God’s love to each of you!

DeenaSeptember 15, 2011 at 11:29 pm -

Oh Marys Touch, you need to pray. Pray that people don’t usurp God’s authority and judge others. Jesus died for your sins and mine. Sin is that which separates each of us from God. In a word it is judgement. Judgement of others. In another word it is condemnation. In another, hate.

Lay down your righteous indignation and your pontification and enter the kingdom. Shed the chains which shackle you. Where are your accusers? There are none, Lord. Neither do I accuse you, now go in peace and sin no more.

Reese MSeptember 15, 2011 at 11:48 pm -

It must be sad to have to filter reality through the assumption that the Bible is literally true and literally the word of god. This is the kind of nonsense we get.

I wish you Christians would stop acting like fools. Grow a pre-frontal cortex and get over this god delusion. Your testimonials are barely even coherent. Take this weepy, self-righteous soap opera to another website.

It must be sad to have to filter reality through the assumption that the Bible is literally true and literally the word of god. You only have one life to live, and you chose to waste it by believing in a fairy tale and trying to find meaning in

Becky (the real one)September 16, 2011 at 1:48 am -

No Mary, you do reject your brother. You want to change him, you don’t want him to be who he is. You invite him places hoping to change him. He doesn’t come with you because you’re not inviting him because you love him and want to be with him, you’re inviting hoping to “church” him. You do judge him, you’ve called him a sinner–that’s a judgement. And you have the nerve to somehow paint yourself as the victim here. It’s just self-delusion.

dbSeptember 16, 2011 at 1:49 am -

No Mary, I’m not in pain. I’m quite happy. I’m a happy gay man and you are full of crap. I say this not because I’m in pain–I say it because you’re full of crap.

dbSeptember 16, 2011 at 1:57 am -

And Becky, that’s such a good point. I love how Marys Touch makes it all about herself–her brother’s the mean one because he won’t accept her very conditional love. She’s the victim and he’s the one who’s intolerant. Total anti-Gay Christian victim syndrome.

dbSeptember 16, 2011 at 1:58 am -

I’m sure when she talks about this she’ll say how mean we all were to her when she was just trying to love.

Ben In OaklandSeptember 16, 2011 at 2:00 am -

Oh, Mary, it takes a fairy to make something pretty. your brother is trying to make you pretty, but you’re not listening.

Absolutely, of course, you are judging away as much as you can. But it’s very important of you to believe that you are not. otherwise, you really would be a very good christian, would you?

Let me do a little deconstruction for you here. you acknowledge YOUR sinfulness, you acknowledge that you are far from perfect in every way, you acknowledge that you fall far short of the mark.

But what pisses your brother off– as it does me– is that somehow, despite the mess of youre life, you managed to find a little bit of time to tell your brother exactly what’s wrong with him, and what HE needs to do to get right iwth god.

Exactly what part of “Judge not lest ye be judged” does NOT apply to a bible-believing christian such as your self. Or, to put it another way, we may all be sinners, but not all of us are throwing stones.

Let me tell you something on your borther’s behalf, and maybe you will understamnd his anger. YOU do not know anything about his or any Gay person’s relationship with God. You do not represent God, as much as it comforts you to think that you do, and until god publishes it in the New York times himself, you do not speak for God. No one has given YOU any authority to judge others. The problem here is simple: you have chosen judgment over your brother instead of doing as Jesus bade you, no matter if you would prefer to call it “proclaiming the truth in love”, or admitting it for what it so clearly is.

But glory hallelujah, you have given yourself an out– or so you believe. Homosex is the worst kind of sexual sin, as forbidden, dark, twisted and queerly attractive as it is. And the worst kind of homosex is the unrepentant kind. “Oh, we’re all sinners here. Homosexuals are no worse than the rest of us. So you see, we’re not homophobic or prejudiced, we’re not making an extra-special-icky sin of homosex. No judgment there. No siree.”

Oh, yes you are judging despite trying desperately to convince yourself you are not. You are doing it by creating TWO classes of sinners, one repentant, one not. and guess who are the superior brand of sinners? Guess who’s not judging, but just reporting? Guess who’s not smug, just forgiven? Guess who get’s a get-out-of-hell free card, and guess who doesn’t?

And guess who gets to play the victim? And guess which victim had no desire to play the game?

Honey, you know what I would suggest for you? Find yourself a less trashy brand of church, one which doesn’t attack and condemn people and call it love, one which doesn’t preac the moral inferiority of others.

You might even get your brother back.

Paul DouglasSeptember 16, 2011 at 3:24 am -

Marys touch is a misnomer: you are Mary Touched. Touched in the head with an obsessional religious mania. Anyone who would spend the time and energy writing the extensive nonsense that you have foisted on this reading audience, has too much time on their hands and not enough medication. Have you any idea how you come across to others? I hazard a guess you have no intimate friends or significant relationships with flesh and blood human beings, only imaginary ones with Jesus and the BM. Doesn’t that tell you something? Until you figure out how to connect with real people Mary Touched, you are going to spiral down into further and further isolation, having just a few fellow Blue Army fellow travelers to cluck and tsk tsk with for the rest of your days. Get help and get in touch with reality.

Marys TouchSeptember 16, 2011 at 7:37 am -

May The Lord bless you and keep you.

May the Lord make his face to shine upon you, and be gracious to you.

May the Lord lift up his countenance upon you, and give you peace.

Marys TouchSeptember 16, 2011 at 7:51 am -

Why am I on this site? I sometimes ask myself that also, as my life is very full and I didn’t get things done yesterday that I planned. And now, I’m on here early again, because I immediately woke up this morning wanting to look each of you in the eye and say what a precious child of God you are and the evil one deceived you just like he did me…and that’s his plan, so we spend an eternity away from God. What drives me is a love for each of your souls as things in this world are going to get much worse and I just want you all in heaven with me. I’m not here to argue – it wasn’t my goal. I also didn’t mean to preach, I was just sharing my heart. I just wanted to say how sorry I was for my selfishness (sins) years ago and explain it.

And you know what I’ve learned? Even if heaven didn’t exist…if THIS was all there is to life, Christ is SO loving and doing life God’s way is SO much more beautiful than doing it ‘my’ way.

I slammed the Blessed Virgin Mary for YEARS, but was EXTREMELY humbled to learn I was SO very wrong. She’s the most loving mother who wants to gather in all her children to her heart and the Sacred Heart of Jesus.

db – in regards to your comment “34.I’m sure when she talks about this she’ll say how mean we all were to her when she was just trying to love.

Comment by db — September 16, 2011 @ 1:58 am”

No…that’s not what I’ll say. I’ll just hope that someone who read this had their hearts touched. Even if it was just one person.

I also don’t see my brother as mean, nor am I angry with him. Many comments to my comments assume things that don’t even enter my mind or heart. Yes, it hurts me, but my main concern is for the wounds inside him that cause him to act that way. Hurt people hurt people and I don’t want him to hurt anymore.

Really Marys–you think someone’s going to be moved by the story of you rejecting and judging your brother and then passive agressively painting yourself as the victim and as somehow brave and heroic for being an anti-gay bigot? You think that’s a moving story?

Priya LynnSeptember 16, 2011 at 12:18 pm -

Mary, you are confusing “sin” with wrongdoings. Only that which harms others is immoral, gayness doesn’t harm anyone, it is not a wrongdoing. You say gayness seperates a person from your god. If so, that’s your god’s choice and your god chooses to seperate himself from innocent people not for any moral reason but because he’s immoral and a bigot.

Becky (the real one)September 16, 2011 at 2:28 pm -

Mary “Fear hides and I don’t hide from him”?

What does that even mean? Is it some kind of bumper sticker you saw somewhere? It doesn’t even make sense–fear doesn’t hide. When an animal is fearful it attacks and that’s what you and my sister do. You are fearful–my sister hates to see me as a happy lesbian adult surrounded by my friends and chosen family. She’s afraid of seeing me happy because it goes against her (and your) beliefs that we gay people are broken and in pain. If you think GLBT people are going to read your self-serving story here are think how great you are that you insulted your brother and then blamed him for withdrawing from you are truly delusional.

Marys TouchSeptember 16, 2011 at 5:29 pm -

Becky – I don’t know your sister or how she has spoken to you, but help me understand something. Really. You can’t tell my tone from a web post, but it’s very gentle and just trying to understand your heart. 1) Help me understand how you perceive me answering a question (from my heart) that I am asked, as “attacking”. 2) I am GRATEFUL beyond words for my brothers sins and the ache in my heart his rejection caused, as it helped ME see more of MY sins, that I was blind too. I wouldn’t be back with my husband today if it wasn’t for my brother. I’m sincerely asking, help me understand how you see that as self-serving when facing the truth of my sins forced me to turn my life around 180..or is it 360? :)

And you know what? My brother protected my mother’s Catholic faith when she was dying and I was a HUGE Catholic basher. Isn’t that interesting? :) I love how God works!

Marys TouchSeptember 16, 2011 at 5:53 pm -

db – in your latest post you call me a bigot. Here’s the definition: a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

db…my tone is gentle, but help me understand how I am a bigot if I disagree with you? You are correct in that I don’t agree with you on same-sex relationships, but how am I intolerant of you if I don’t share your opinion on something?

I’d glady have you over for dinner or just go to something fun together. I’ll bet you have many wonderful skills or things you can teach me. Someone’s sexual feelings or actions doesn’t play into how I see them as a person.

Are you a good cook? Can you play a musical instrument? Are you good in emergency situations? Can you fix things? Are you good with technical stuff? What’s the most beautiful place you’ve visited in the world? Who is your favorite relative and why? Do you like pets? BTW – I am severely technically challenged, but I am a good cook and I make really good apple pie…tis the season!

emmaSeptember 16, 2011 at 6:27 pm -

To get back on track, I wonder how long it will take for someone to get Nancy Reagan’s 2 cents on this.

dbSeptember 16, 2011 at 7:28 pm -

Marys–your tone has nothing to do with why I called you a bigot. You’re a bigot because you are intolerant of gay people. And yes, I am intolerant of anti-gay bigots. Deal with it.

Becky (the real one)September 16, 2011 at 7:37 pm -

Marys Touch–your “tone” is not fooling me. My sister also believes she is loving. The thing is–calling someone a “sinner” isn’t made better because you use a sweet tone of voice. It’s a matter of what you say not how you say it. My sister isn’t a problem because of her “tone” she’s a problem because she’s an anti-gay bigot. The fact that she says things in a pleasant tone of voice doesn’t cover for the fact that she considers me to be sick or a sinner and no amount of facts will change that. I’m not going to put up with her bigotry–and neither should your brother. The fact that she “loves” me doesn’t matter–I don’t need that in my life.

dbSeptember 16, 2011 at 7:38 pm -

Marys–why would I have dinner with someone who judges me and thinks I’m a sinner? Why would I subject myself to that? And I know that your motive would be to try to turn me into something that is unnatural to me.

Marys TouchSeptember 16, 2011 at 9:29 pm -

db – There you go assuming things again. You need to stop that :) “I” can’t turn you into anything and I wouldn’t want to.

1) Why do you keep assuming things that aren’t even my motives? Why can’t I just enjoy you for who you are? When I get together with men and women…we don’t talk about sex…it’s not appropriate. We talk about life, we laugh, we do things together. There’s many things going on in the world. Why does sex have to be so important? Good golly!

How am “I” intolerant of people with same-sex attractions when I would love to spend time with you…but you won’t with me? You tell me “I’m” intolerant? Hmmmm….

You say you are loving, but how is rejecting someone for their beleifs loving? Which is what you do with me. I accept you for who you are, why can’t you accept me? It’s not my business what people do in their bedroom. I don’t want to hear about people’s sexual lives – period!

db & Becky: As far as the “sinner” issue: Let’s put the same-sex feelings to the side for a moment. Let’s pretend I met you and I am clueless of your sexual desires. You are still a sinner. So am I – we ALL are and you are no better than I. We all sin every day – here are just a few: Anger, malice, not forgiving someone, lying, cheating, stealing, gossiping, selfishness, putting your needs before another, gluttony, getting drunk, impatient, unkind…the list goes on. Tell me you haven’t done any of those in the last day or so :) I have!

Yeah Becky, my tone is gentle…I can’t help it! :) I hope you meet with your sister soon… It hurts your entire family not to do so and it will hug all their hearts if you reach out to her. You may need her one day, and she you. If you found out she was hungry and didn’t have money to buy food, would you help her? If she was in a serious accident, would you visit her? Or would your sexual feelings still be more important? Just wondering.

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Truth Wins Out is a non-profit organization that fights the "ex-gay" myth and antigay religious extremism.

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