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Re: Devin Mesoraco

Am I the only one who doesn't want Corky on the team? I want Mesoraco on the team whenever he's ready, be it April, 2012, or whenever. But if Corky is the primary backup, I think that's a big step down from other catchers. When you factor in that it's a buyer's market for catcher's this off-season, why not set your sights higher?

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Am I the only one who doesn't want Corky on the team? I want Mesoraco on the team whenever he's ready, be it April, 2012, or whenever. But if Corky is the primary backup, I think that's a big step down from other catchers. When you factor in that it's a buyer's market for catcher's this off-season, why not set your sights higher?

You're not the only one who feels this way. Corky as a number 3 catcher is marginally acceptable, not as a number 2, at least IMHO.

I'd rather listen to Kelch read the phone book than suffer through Thom Brennaman's attempt to make every instance on the field the most important event since the discovery of manned space flight. -westofyou

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Am I the only one who doesn't want Corky on the team? I want Mesoraco on the team whenever he's ready, be it April, 2012, or whenever. But if Corky is the primary backup, I think that's a big step down from other catchers. When you factor in that it's a buyer's market for catcher's this off-season, why not set your sights higher?

I'm with you. His .570 OPS simply doesn't fly in the majors. I'm glad he handles the staff well. He's fine as the emergency backup coming up from AAA, but there's no way he should be getting regular PA and be first in line for the starter's job if somebody gets hurt.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Am I the only one who doesn't want Corky on the team? I want Mesoraco on the team whenever he's ready, be it April, 2012, or whenever. But if Corky is the primary backup, I think that's a big step down from other catchers. When you factor in that it's a buyer's market for catcher's this off-season, why not set your sights higher?

I'm with you. His .570 OPS simply doesn't fly in the majors. I'm glad he handles the staff well. He's fine as the emergency backup coming up from AAA, but there's no way he should be getting regular PA and be first in line for the starter's job if somebody gets hurt.

That said, if Mesoraco isn't ready to be the starter, I'd rather him getting regular playing time in AAA.

Games are won on run differential -- scoring more than your opponent. Runs are runs, scored or prevented they all count the same. Worry about scoring more and allowing fewer, not which positions contribute to which side of the equation or how "consistent" you are at your current level of performance.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by RedsManRick

I'm with you. His .570 OPS simply doesn't fly in the majors. I'm glad he handles the staff well. He's fine as the emergency backup coming up from AAA, but there's no way he should be getting regular PA and be first in line for the starter's job if somebody gets hurt.

That said, if Mesoraco isn't ready to be the starter, I'd rather him getting regular playing time in AAA.

Agree on both counts. Replacement level (if Corky's even that good) is a killer. Just because a guy can be paid the minimum doesn't make him an asset.

And Mesoraco only has a few weeks above Double-A under his belt. Catchers have so much to learn, and there's plenty to be learned playing full-time in Triple-A, since that's when a player stops being a young player among other youngsters and starts having to compete against lifers who are surviving on guile and know-how instead of raw talent. I like the idea of letting him season a little bit longer while a "costs less than Ramon but is better than Corky" guy is signed to co-catch with Hanigan. Now, if Mesoraco just busts down the door in spring training, then fine.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

Lets say the Reds spend say $2-3M on a 2nd catcher. (who they cannot trade until mid season i believe). They plan to start Mes in AAA.
They have $2-3M less to spend on other spots: LF, SS, backup 3B, Rhodes, etc. Once Mes is ready (maybe opening day. hopefully by June) the team has 3 catchers.

Part of the 'Corky plan' is the idea that Mes may be ready April 1rst & will be ready by mid June. It allows the team to spend $2-3M on a position other than catcher.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Am I the only one who doesn't want Corky on the team? I want Mesoraco on the team whenever he's ready, be it April, 2012, or whenever. But if Corky is the primary backup, I think that's a big step down from other catchers. When you factor in that it's a buyer's market for catcher's this off-season, why not set your sights higher?

My catcher can hit .000, and if he is the true leader of the infield and pitching staff, I'll be happy. (I'm exaggerating to make a point, so no stats showing that this is impossible, lol)

It's easy to underestimate the value of a strong defensive catcher, since there really are no stats on it yet, but ask anyone who plays with Corky, and they will tell what I told you.

And the best part of Corky, is that when he does get a hit, it's like getting a present when it's not your birthday.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by IslandRed

Agree on both counts. Replacement level (if Corky's even that good) is a killer. Just because a guy can be paid the minimum doesn't make him an asset.

And Mesoraco only has a few weeks above Double-A under his belt. Catchers have so much to learn, and there's plenty to be learned playing full-time in Triple-A, since that's when a player stops being a young player among other youngsters and starts having to compete against lifers who are surviving on guile and know-how instead of raw talent. I like the idea of letting him season a little bit longer while a "costs less than Ramon but is better than Corky" guy is signed to co-catch with Hanigan. Now, if Mesoraco just busts down the door in spring training, then fine.

Spring training is too late to decide how much more AAA time Mes needs. Walt has to make a decision during the offseason. Does he pencil in Hanigan/Mes? Hanigan/Hernandez? If he pays money to Hernandez or someone similar & then Mes is ready opening day he has wasted a few million dollars.

FYI: Walt is in Arizona watching Mes & other Reds prospects in the AFL right now. While he is looking at other guys I bet a big decision he will make soon is how much more AAA time Mes needs.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

If the Reds think Mes in the Majors gives them the most competative team on the field, then that will be worth far more in the long run, than the money saved from keeeping in the minors.

Staying competative year after year is the best use of a team's payroll. Saving money is only important when the team is losing.

The finances are always important. Not just when they're losing. Take a winning team and give it a couple bad contracts and it wouldn't take long for there to be a problem.

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

Am I the only one who doesn't want Corky on the team? I want Mesoraco on the team whenever he's ready, be it April, 2012, or whenever. But if Corky is the primary backup, I think that's a big step down from other catchers. When you factor in that it's a buyer's market for catcher's this off-season, why not set your sights higher?

If they can sign a decent catcher to platoon with Hanigan for around $1M fine. Otherwise, I'd let Hanigan be the catcher around 75% of the time and Corky the rest. Come June, I'd bring up Mesoraco.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

If they can sign a decent catcher to platoon with Hanigan for around $1M fine. Otherwise, I'd let Hanigan be the catcher around 75% of the time and Corky the rest. Come June, I'd bring up Mesoraco.

I'm hoping they go with a veteran backup. It's still far from a given that Devin Mesoraco can hit major league pitching, so what do you do if he's a bust? If Hanigan gets hurt--which will likely happen at some point in the year--then you're stuck with Corky Miller as your everyday catcher. Yuck. I just reminded myself of FCB. Double yuck.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

I did suggest Hanigan would get the most playing time in my original post, but I really envisioned something closer to the split Hernandez and Hanigan had in 2010. A second catcher gets more playing time than a player at another position naturally, and if the Reds brought Mesoraco north I am sure they would be giving him plenty of pt.

My feeling is that Votto is "on the clock". Arroyo doesn't have a new deal yet. Rolen is a question mark for 2011, and I am really unsure of Francisico as his replacement. Shortstop is kind of unsettled. Yes, the Reds have a great number of young arms that could keep them in contention while the lineup is in flux. But the team is ready to win now. Best case scenario, Mesoraco could be a distinct upgrade over Ramon for a fraction of the cost. Worst, he is still going to be getting experience handling one of the better young pitching staffs in the game. Unless he totally tanks, and after watching him for the first time Friday night I sincerely doubt he will, he'll get enough at bats on a weekly basis to continue his development. Bringing him along allows the Reds to potentially get better inexpensively, and allows them to allocate more money to a desperate area of need in left field.

If you are Florida Marlins, coming off a disappointing season and not necessarily prepared to win next year either, maybe you put a kid like this on ice a little longer. But, the Reds are ready to win now, with a window that could start closing a lot sooner than any of us would like to think about. To blindly follow protocol or the dreaded "conventional baseball wisdom" on how to handle a prospect like this carries a risk with it too. What is good for other organizations may not be good for the 2011 Cincinnati Reds. I'd let Ramon walk and lean heavily towards starting next year with Mesoraco sharing time with Hanigan.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by Will M

Spring training is too late to decide how much more AAA time Mes needs. Walt has to make a decision during the offseason. Does he pencil in Hanigan/Mes? Hanigan/Hernandez? If he pays money to Hernandez or someone similar & then Mes is ready opening day he has wasted a few million dollars.

FYI: Walt is in Arizona watching Mes & other Reds prospects in the AFL right now. While he is looking at other guys I bet a big decision he will make soon is how much more AAA time Mes needs.

I think Mesoraco's AAA performance will dictate how much time he spends there. And I think he'll spend some time there. While I noted the possibility Mesoraco just goes off in spring training and comes north (east?) with the team, I wouldn't count it as a probability, so they'll need to figure out who #2 will be in the meantime.

But their judgment of DM's readiness will be definitely be a factor when it comes to deciding who the #2 catcher will be and how much money they'll be willing to invest in him.

For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by camisadelgolf

I'm hoping they go with a veteran backup. It's still far from a given that Devin Mesoraco can hit major league pitching, so what do you do if he's a bust? If Hanigan gets hurt--which will likely happen at some point in the year--then you're stuck with Corky Miller as your everyday catcher. Yuck. I just reminded myself of FCB. Double yuck.

Just kidding, FCB. Well, kind of.

Gee, what happens if everything goes wrong. Then I guess the playoffs would be out of the question.

Re: Devin Mesoraco

Originally Posted by redsfandan

Gee, what happens if everything goes wrong. Then I guess the playoffs would be out of the question.

So let me get this straight--you expect Mesoraco to perform well as a rookie? And you expect Hanigan to stay healthy all year? If neither of those happen, it's hardly an 'everything went wrong' scenario. It's two things that have very strong possibilities of happening.

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