Cadillac U.S. Sales Flat At 13,931 Units In October 2017

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Cumulative U.S. sales of GM’s Cadillac brand decreased 0.1 percent to 13,931 units in October 2017.

Retail sales decreased 13.3 percent or 1,629 units to 10,615 vehicles, representing 76.2 percent of total Cadillac sales in October 2017. That compares to 12,244 retail sales in October 2016, which represented 87.8 percent of total Cadillac sales.

Fleet sales increased 94.6 percent or 1,612 units to 3,316 vehicles, representing 23.8 percent of total Cadillac sales in October 2017. That compares to 1,704 fleet sales in October 2016, which represented 12.2 percent of total Cadillac sales.

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33 Comments

WOW, it seems Cadillac is doing great as a “sports” brand. I bet dealers are barely able to keep the ATS or the CTS in stock. This whole “rebranding” thing is really working out, keep it up guys… Yeah, I’m looking at you Melody.

Silent – exactly. Cadillac’s turnaround is well underway… and is a big undertaking with many moving pieces. Though we have some idea of what it will consist of, we do not yet know what it will bring and what it will result in. But it’s better than doing nothing…

It’s also worth noting that even if Cadillac gets all of its future products perfect, flawless and 100 percent spot-on (which I doubt will happen), then it will still take time for sales to pick up. BMW, Mercedes-Benz and Audi were not built in a year or on a single generation of vehicles. It took decades of product substance, consistency, marketing, and good to great execution at the retail level to bring them where they are today. In that regard, Cadillac is just getting started. Don’t expect results overnight… and don’t expect them within a single generation of vehicles. This is a long-term game… that is played with sound product, solid strategy, and a great amount of patience.

Silent, I completely understand, and don’t doubt that Caddy has a plan for the future. However, I DO think that they are going about it the complete wrong way. I’m not 100% against a Cadillac sports car, and I don’t care if the cars are FWD or RWD (Personally I prefer FWD), or if they run on gas, Electricity or even dog turds. When rebuilding a brand, its all about image, and recently IMO Caddy is turning against everything they have represented and catered to a “younger” buyer. They want to be hip, and turn Cadillac into a “brand” rather than a car company, and this is a terrible idea. Very few young people can actually afford, or want to pay for a luxury car, now I’m not saying they should only focus on old farts, but they should definitely follow the money, and the loyal buyer.

Henry, exactly right. The people in charge of Cadillac now seem to hate everything the brand stood for, even when they were the #1 US luxury brand, even when they were the subject of many songs and “the Cadillac of X” was in active use. Somehow, someone developed this theory that if only Cadillac could transition to a fully “sports” brand, sales would go through the roof.

The reality is that only 15% of car buyers car about “performance”, i.e. race-track handling. Cadillacs of the past were always strongly powered, so the transition is not about horsepower. Although it seems the XTS is somewhat starved of power, possibly in an attempt to kill off the last vestige of the classic Cadillac sedan. The powers of Cadillac today must hate seeing how the XTS sales have outpaced the sports-oriented ATS and CTS, but the numbers aren’t lying.

I don’t understand how “Silent” can claim that Cadillac is “in the middle of a transition”, when it’s been going on for over 35 years now, and sales and profits have been falling all along the way of the attempt(s) to copy the Germans. If this is the middle, that means it will take another 35 years?

And the “long term game” comments sound remarkably like Melody Lee’s dictate to give herself “another 10 years before seeing positive results” that she made earlier this year (she’s already been on the job 5 years). At what point does “just give us more time” start to sound like the con-job that it is, even to the most optimistic rah-rah GM cheerleader?

I also agree that there’s no reason Cadillac can’t make cars with their classic values, as well as some sporty little cars to try to get the young dot-com millionaires aboard. But the theory is that you have to totally kill off anything that isn’t a sports car, before the public will embrace you as a sporty brand. That’s laughable of course, the plebian MB vans don’t seem to be hurting sales of their other autos, and the silly little i3 is not hurting other BMW sales. But facts don’t seem to bother proponents of the “Cadillac must be ALL sports cars”, and JDN seems to be part of this group.

Meanwhile sales of “sporty” Cadillacs continue to sink, while the non-sporty models are carrying the brand. But it’s full steam ahead on the “transition” anyway, and if you doubt the process you will get thumbed-down here by the rah-rah crowd.

You don’t understand the luxury market. While many people may not care about performance or what wheels are driving the car, they do care about the brand and reputation of a luxury car. Now, do you think the BMW 3-series would be the same luxury benchmark if for all these years if was based on a FWD mainstream car? Do you think M-B could sell the CLA at it’s price and volume if they didn’t also sell a slew of RWD luxury cars?

TD yes that’s a theory, and a valid one. However, one could also make the case that BMW was well-known for their motorcycles before they became a premium car brand, so one path for Cadillac to imitate BMW would be to make a line of motorcycles in order to sell the cars. I don’t think that’s necessary, however.

Cadillac was #1 in US luxury car sales for 50+ years, until they departed from their core values, including reliability, and tried to imitate BMW. The brand that replaced Cadillac in the first decade of this century was Lexus, a brand known for reliability and ride quality, not sportiness. Lexus is still a very close second to MB, and still well ahead of BMW.

I’d like to see Cadillac get back to its core values, which would include making cars as reliable as Lexus makes them now. Cadillac has a history, and they should stress the strong points rather than running away from their history and pretending that this is a new brand, the new BMW. The market already has a BMW. There are other paths to selling cars.

That said, if Cadillac wants to make a sporty car that also adheres to their core values, then nothing wrong with that. The reality is that the ATS dropped Cadillac’s legendary ride quality in order to yield a fast track time on the Nurburgring Nordschleife, and the public just isn’t buying the ATS. Ironically the current BMW 3 series has better ride quality than the ATS, that’s an area that Cadillac used to own (in terms of mass production cars) and shouldn’t be losing on.

Look at the abysmal sales numbers for the ATS; it’s just never really been loved by the public. And I’d make the case that it’s a fine looking car (at least in normal trim), so it’s not the looks that are the problem – it’s the car itself. Like the Cimarron and the Catera, it’s hard for me to think of the ATS as a real Cadillac. “Henry” here had a great idea, make an ATS replacement that has 2 comfortable seats instead of 4 cramped ones. But that idea is too out of the box for Johan, who seems comfortable as an imitator and incrementer, rather than an innovator.

I do see your point that some people will buy more car than they need, as a kind of bragging-rights thing. It’s on a par with having the SUV that performs best off-road, maybe some buyers who never would consider taking the SUV off-road still want a vehicle that gets high marks for off-roading, just as a show-the-neighbors kind of thing. That’s silly, I’d call it the Rolex effect (i.e. would anyone buy a Rolex if no one else would ever know that they had one?) but it does exist to at least a small degree.

However, I think that Cadillac can be a legitimate luxury brand without having to go to the ALL “driver’s cars” line-up that JDN apparently has planned. Lexus certainly did not do this, and they are just a hair behind BMW in the US luxury market.

Cadillac – I feel for it when I look at the U.S. sale charts. This kind of lack of support for local automakers (from politicians and consumers) can only be seen in U.S. But other than that I see no excuses for Cadillac and GM as a whole. GM representatives and some supporters like to come up with explanations as the magic year 2020, new products, diesels (GM was soooo slow the lack of diesel problem is not valid anymore) etc. I’ve been hearing it for the last 20 years and I have enough. The same goes with their fake global strategy. Lexus brand started globally at the same time as they did in U.S. I remember they had two models in Europe (SC and LS) and they later on they kept on pushing. Nowadays maybe they aren’t exactly very succesful but they are respected and no one laughs at them. And GM? First they killed Chevrolet in Europe (instead of keeping a few best dealers to support Camaro.Corvette,Cadillac sales) now they got rid of Opel. That means they became a complete ghost company in one of the world’s important markets. Not only I have to listen to people saying ‘why shall I buy a Cadillac? even Americans don’t buy them!’ but I am simply embarrassed with the fact those few Cadillac customers as me don’t get any support (I once wrote my story here). Regards Andreas

Andreas you really have to look at the complete details of this to really grasp the failure of the past vs the changes were are now in.

In a nut shell GM had no real cohesive vision for Cadilllac. The leaders of the division wanted to do one thing the GM leadership just wanted to cut the budgets to the bone and always left them short of their intended plans. This is why they had so many leaders of the division as they knew they never would get the support from bankrupt incompetent old GM.

Today GM has the money to fund this. The division has been give separation and autonomy to do what they need to do. This is the focus that JDN has spoken of.

Cadillac has burned much of their trust and their good will and all that needs to be earned back one year and one model at a time.

Today Cadillac now has their own engineering staff and they now have their own styling staff. They are now working on their own engines to provide their own identity vs just using a cooperate truck engine.

They are focused to show to buy a Cadillac means that you are not buying a fancy car built from a Chevrolet parts bin.

It will take time, effort and continued investment. Not one single model is going to change the whole thing but each new model will build on for the next.

The real key is Cadillac in this segment does not have to our sell BMW or Benz but they only need to build volumeas these models even at present volumes make great profits.

If you look global sales have been increasing even with the old product and the new will only increase them more.

The truth is Europe is a very difficult market for anyone right now. China is were the greatest growth is and will be. An automaker can survive out side of Europe but few can survive not being in China or the US market. These two are where the money really is.

The other key for all mfg is to control cost, maximize return on investment and invest in new technology. It is all about being efficient with your money.

Being big is not going to save many companies. Look at Ford and their $11 stock prices. They started late on cost cutting and being more efficient with their investments. They are far behind on EV too.

While this is still going to be tough the new GM is finally better equipped to do this vs the old GM as many of the people who were the problem are now gone.

Anyone who has been closely watching what Cadillac has been doing for say the last 2 years shouldn’t be suprised by these flat sales numbers . Their product portfolio has been in flux as JDN has mentioned in the press that Cadillac was going into hiatus while they are getting ready for a completely different product line . Starting in MY 2018 we can expect a new Cadillac every 6 months if it all pans out . Plus the fact is that there is going to be a slow build up of product as the assembly plants gear up for all these new models then the pipeline needs to be filled and the distribution of these all across the country .
All of this takes time , the logistics all have to come together for a new product launch .
What I do see as a troubling sign is that the ‘ol XTS outsold the new CT6 by more than double . I realize that they both go after different segments but the numbers are opposite of what they should be and with the new refresh of the XTS which makes it look even more like the little brother to the CT6 you have to wonder if it will steal sales away from the bigger brother .
And of course the Escalade and XT5 are holding things together for the time being .

Cadillac cars is a mirror reflection of Cadillac President Johan de Nysschen.. BORING; there’s no excitement or reason why anyone wants a Cadillac except for possibly the XT5 CUV and the Escalade as de Nysschen even made the CT6 boring by choosing vanilla looks.

Scott3 wrote: “On the other hand be prepared as not every new models is going to be a M or AMG competitor either.”

But Johan has stated “We want to build our reputation as a purveyor of high-performance driver’s cars” (“Carscoops” blog, January 17, 2015)

… and “They will be drivers’ cars” (“New York Times”, September 7, 2017) when discussing future Cadillac products.

In fact if you search JDN’s name and “driver’s cars” you get numerous references, including his attempted trash-talk of Infiniti engineers as being more interested in “driver’s aids” than “driver’s cars”.

Interpret “driver’s cars” as you will, with the above context in mind. It seems to me that JDN intends to eventually have nothing but “sport performance” cars in the Cadillac line-up. It’s obviously what he wants, and what 15% of the public loves, but does Cadillac want to ignore the other 85%, while chasing a segment which is already fully supplied in the market (by the Germans and others)?

JDN’s goals and interests are obvious, but my question is – does this make sense for GM? JDN loves his Euro-style, Euro-performance cars, but that’s not Cadillac’s history, not what made Cadillac a great brand, and not what is likely to make the big profits in the future. Does the world really need another “sports luxury” brand? The market – from the October sales figures – is already saying NO. But JDN continues down the same track anyway, it’s all he likes and all he knows. He doesn’t know Cadillac, however. Nor should he be expected to know it, given his history.

By the way, JDN became head of Cadillac in July of 2014. He clearly had some input on the CT6. He probably gave the go ahead for the cheap 2.0 base model, at the very least. Press reports said he has argued with Reuss regarding Cadillac styling, as JDN wants to “soften the edges” Euro-style, while Reuss favored the more traditional/unique Cadillac styling.

JDN seems to think that Cadillac can be the brand of “execution”, i.e. that it can out-execute other brands which have the same goals. He even says that the reason the Germans have been successful is that they’ve had more focus, and that he had to separate Cadillac from Detroit to give it the focus it needs. Sounds like a charlatan to me, and frankly I can’t see that the public will view JDN’s version of Cadillac as anything other than a Euro-wannabe. But time will tell.

Translation of “Silent’: “I can’t refute a single point you’ve made Drew, especially when you reference them with actual facts and exact dates. But I’m a cheerleader with boundless love for JDN, so I’m going to whine and pretend that you have no right to your opinions”.

Gee thanks ‘Silent’. You’ve added completely nothing to this thread. I realize that you wish everyone who isn’t in lockstep with JDN would just shut up, but there would be no reason at all for comments here if that were the case. Perhaps you can start a “cheerleaders only” discussion board.

Silent, if you were going to “bite” you would refute my “drivel” points, one by one. With facts and references. You obviously can’t do it, you’ve had two bites at that apple already. You are trying to deflect with your “What’s your background?” gambit. Where is your refutation of my points, which you implied that you could do?

And where does it say that you are entitled to do background checks on those who post here? Who else have you pulled this “Show us your credentials” scam on? When have you ever posted yours? As far as I can tell, you are JDN’s personal flunky, hired last week. And you know what – I don’t care what your background is. Make a real point, and it’s open for discussion, no matter who says it.

I’m still waiting for you to make an actual point here. If you actually say something rather than denigrating others, I will not question your background. You call yourself “Silent” and it seems to me that all you want to do is silence those who are not praising JDN’s every move.

Your childish opinions have already been refuted but you continue repeating the same drivel over and over again. Listen to Alex or Scott or any of the other well-informed and knowledgeable people with insights and experience substantially beyond yours (which apparently is zero since you did not directly answer my airdrops but danced around it like a little boy afraid of the cold hard truth).

Your goal is to change opinions… only problem is that you know nothing of what it is you’re talking about. And your childlike demeanor leaves a lot to be desired in a conversation… especially if you think industry knowledge and experience do not matter.

Also: don’t focus on my name. And I do not work for anyone related to GM or Cadillac… so that throws your conspiracy theory out the window.

You won’t get far in life positioning yourself as a leader for supposedly new ideas that in reality have no basis. That’s why you’re the only one arguing for something no one even understands or cares to understand any more.

Silent, you sound like the poor man’s Alex Luft, saying the same things he does, but in a less eloquent way. Are you Alex under a different name, or just someone who likes to copy his ideas? And what’s the point of your input when we have Alex himself?

As far as Cadillacs of the past 3-5 years, tell me what the sales of Cadillacs of the past 3-5 years look like. Better yet, check the October sales figures. Your beloved JDN has been taking Cadillac down the drain, and that’s got nothing to do with me. The numbers don’t lie, no matter how much you personally might like the machines that JDN is putting out. Why don’t you ask the public why they aren’t buying Cadillacs? But as Yogi Berra once said “if the fans won’t come to the ballpark, you can’t stop them”.

BTW, ask “Susan” here how much she likes the jerky, unreliable 8-speed transmission in her CTS. JDN is so focused on copying the Germans, he’s lost sight of refinement and reliability – two traits that used to be core Cadillac values, but which are apparently not important in the new Cadillac. I’d love to see where the $12 billion is going. I guess for moving expenses to NYC, for coffee houses, fashion shows, helicopter rides to the Hamptons, etc.

Silent – I’ll answer your question about whether I have driven ANY Cadillac vehicle made in the past 3-5 years, when you answer my question about the “points” you said you could address (but never did), and when Scott3 tells us where I “misquoted”. You don’t get answers when you avoid answering questions yourself.

“Silent”, 3 strikes – you are out! You’ve had three chances to show us how “every point” I made earlier was ill-advised. You’ve refuted none, and childishly tried to change the subject, or pointed to others – who likewise have refuted nothing I’ve written. Scott3 has not even told us where I supposedly “misquoted” someone today. I guess he looked it up and found I’d used the right quote.

It’s too bad that you wish to silence debate here, and that you likewise refuse to engage in it beyond name-calling. But that’s your choice. A fair minded person can read our posts, and can come to their own conclusions. I will tell you this, you would not fare well in a court of law. You present no evidence, no coherent argument – you just find yourself outraged that anyone else’s view does not adhere to your own. Name calling is not making a case, changing the subject is not an argument. When you claim you can refute someone’s points, actually refute them, rather than running away from your original claim.

Drew if you look at all the post we have countered of yours we have more than covered and documented your arguments.

You even had to misquote to make you point.

At this point I can predict the future of your post.

First up is the XT4 that you will be critical on not even having seen let alone drive. Then when Cadillac is not fully transformed by this single model you will demand JDN’s head on a platter.

You are just a bitter person that Cadillac is trying to return to be the brand it once was a brand for the elite not for the Walmart masses.

Hey Cadillac should not even be a car for me either as it should be for those with real means.

We can debate and argue this but till it plays out no one will know the result. Like I have clearly stated Cadillac is profitable now and even with slow long growth thing will be fine. Not one model in one year will change them and they have time to build.

If you really want to debate then also get caught up on what really is going on and then we can have a intelligent debate.

“Drew if you look at all the post we have countered of yours we have more than covered and documented your arguments.”

Oh really? Where? “Silent” said that EVERY ONE of my points above was “ill advised”, whatever that means. He has yet to address even one of those points, let alone all of them. And I don’t recall you ever refuting a single one of my points, you just had a different opinion – to which you are entitled.

“You even had to misquote to make you point.”

I assume you meant “your point” but where did I misquote? Just saying “YOU’RE WRONG” is not helpful to the discussion. Believe it or not, you should be specific, otherwise you are effectively saying nothing.

“You are just a bitter person that Cadillac is trying to return to be the brand it once was a brand for the elite not for the Walmart masses.”

Not true. Although I am not an elitist snob, I have always said that Cadillac needs to have high standards and should never vary from the core values that made them great. Including that they should not sell cheap, de-contented base versions and call them Cadillacs. If there’s been any Walmartization of Cadillac, it was in the Cimarron – which I was against – and in today’s ATS. The ATS may be a decent car for what it is, but it is not a real Cadillac. And the ATS is much more affordable in today’s market than the Cadillacs that I feel the brand should be building, or that they built prior to the ATS (and Cimarron). Also the de-contended CTS and de-contented CT6 are wrong for the brand, and the XTS is underpowered – especially in AWD form.

On the other hand, Cadillac is not Rolls Royce. If GM wants to be a highly profitable company, they need to sell plenty of cars. Do you understand the principle of the fixed costs involved to develop each platform and each individual model? I feel that some of you would like Cadillac to be an artistic statement, somehow out of reach for all but the 1% of the 1%. I admit that I would like to see plenty of people enjoying real Cadillacs, but again I feel that Cadillac must not compromise or ignore the standards that they had when they were #1 in the USA.

“Like I have clearly stated Cadillac is profitable now and even with slow long growth thing will be fine. ”

Now that’s funny, because you accuse me of being wrong – yet you tell us something that you can’t possibly verify. GM actually does not break out their profit statements by brand. I seem to be one of the few people here that can actually read a 10K. It’s obvious someone is faking it when they say they know Cadillac is profitable. It probably is, but you can’t prove it. Also, mere “profit” is not the standard by which investments are measures. It’s return on capital. The stock market overall has returned about 25% over the past year; if Cadillac has not performed as well or better than that, then it’s been a poor investment.

And please tell us how much the CT6 cost to develop in total, and how many sales they will make in what should be their best year (first full calendar year of production). I’ve seen people claiming the CT6 is profitable, which is very unlikely at this point. The CT6 will clearly be the lowest selling new Cadillac sedan since WWII. That’s even counting the cheapened base versions with the 2.0 engine. I’m not saying it’s a totally bad car, but it needs to be tweaked to be a real Cadillac (better ride) and many of the top trim features should be standard (such as all wheel steering, not to be confused with AWD).

“If you really want to debate then also get caught up on what really is going on and then we can have a intelligent debate.”

Huh? What a complete non-statement. “Get caught up on what is really going on” is apparently “learn to be in complete agreement with the hive, and then say something”. Sorry but I have a lot of experience, with actual cars, in engineering, in business/investment, and in life. I don’t need to listen to you fanboys praise JDN until I follow along in the nodding mantra. Not only do I have the right to my opinions, but this would not be much of a website if it was simply about praising JDN all the time.

This all reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode “It’s a good life”, where everyone was expected to praise the little boy with the power, and they weren’t even allowed to “think bad thoughts” about him. If the case to be made in favor of JDN is so strong, then make it – rather than denigrating others and telling them they have no right to speak.

So much claimed experience but you show and exhibit so little true understanding or comprehension of the situation at had or what we have explained to you.

What do I have to say to get you to grasp that I hold no love or hate for JDN.

But I do hold the true concept of reality to judge a man based on his work from how it succeeds or fails. To this point we have had neither success or failure from JDN and so we can not judge him for it.

Only a fool would pass judgment on the man at this point. The market over time is the only true judge and I am willing to let it be the final judgment on the success or failure of his plans over a reasonable amount of product and time.

See I like others here really understand how this really works and fair is fair in letting him show what cards he really is holding while you just put on a full on bluff.

Scott3, it’s true that I am only judging JDN by his background (South African with no understanding of what Cadillac means to Americans, and an Audi sales manager for several years), and his stated goals (making all Cadillacs “driver’s cars”, deriding the Infiniti engineers that didn’t love sporty cars the way he does, saying that he intends to soften the angular lines that defined Cadillac for generations).

You are right that perhaps JDN will surprise us with things that his background does not belie, and that he might wind up making cars that contrast with what he has said he’ll do. I will keep an open mind and I’ll see what he actually does in the future. It seems apparent to me that he loves German cars more than Cadillac, and that he’s trying to remake the brand in their image. But if that’s not how it plays out, I’ll be happy to say I was wrong, in the 5-7 years or so that it will take for him to “remake” the brand.

Will you be equally open-minded, that in 5-7 years, if JDN’s moves have hurt the brand and Cadillac’s market share is down from where he took over Cadillac, that his tenure has been a failure and that he was a bad choice to lead the brand?

By the way, again – where did I misquote anyone? You claimed that I misquoted (“you had to misquote to make you point” – verbatim from you), so I’d like to be open minded to see where I did that. And if I didn’t misquote anyone, I’d like to see your open-minded apology. Thanks in advance for that.

Repeating the same tired and incorrect arguments over and over again doesn’t help your case… even if it is in a court of law… because you would still lose.

I don’t have enough time on my hands to reply to your woefully incorrect drivel… hence I’m not going to engage with you until you show me that you are going to LISTEN and THINK about what others are telling you, rather than rejecting ideas because they differ from your own.

Nice job “Silent”. You lie about someone else, over and over again (taking lots of time) – then you claim you “don’t have time” to back up your lies. Then you claim the other person is not mature. I bet you are really proud of yourself. Once again, you’ve added nothing of value here.

Sorry that you can’t tolerate any doubt of your beloved JDN. Some day you might learn to accept views that disagree with your own, and when you choose to face them in a mature way – you’ll actually engage in debate, point by point and using facts, rather than stamping your feet, throwing a hissy fit, and claiming you don’t have time to address them.

The biggest job I think Cadillac has is to restore their image as being the ” Standard of the World ” .
It wasn’t that long ago, 2005 , that they built a SUV ( the Escalade ) that was the most powerful SUV on the planet . That was the tag line in the commercials for it . And I bought one . There was a sense of pride in knowing that what I was driving was the best from Cadillac .
In the coming months Cadillac needs a model that will be the best again . It doesn’t matter if it’s a car or a SUV or an EV , just something that gives the division something to be proud of , it’s what helps to build an image .
Moving to New York the cross roads of America was to get a new vibe and get away from the old and stale enviroment in Detroit . Was it the right choice we will soon find out .
Johan was given a 12 billion dollar check and was told to help get Cadillac back on it’s feet after years of neglect because it had lost it’s customer base . There were some cars that sold very well but suffered from poor quality and designs that people started to look at as old and stuffy , an old mans car ( not PC I know ) .
17.5 million cars sold for the 2017 MY another record and Cadillac was saddled with vehicles that consumers didn’t want and went to another brand . A market that changed to more SUV’s being sold than cars and all Cadillac had to offer was the Escalade and now the XT5 . Plus the former heads of GM’s luxury division didn’t move fast enough to get in the game .
Things won’t change over night or even by the end of the decade but turning around a car brand to sell what the public wants right now is a task that had to be started to again become the ” Standard of the World ” .