Well so far one post has been deleted and the other one locked, so I guess I'll try phrasing my question differently. At worst, I'll be banned and if the CoS really is so pretentious and arrogant as to think the membership card itself is worth $200, I guess CoS really isn't for me after all.

So hypothetically speaking, I get the membership card in my hand. Now, Grottos aren't supposed to be the reason you join CoS, that's fine, I accept that. So, what should I do next? I mean, the only other activity mentioned is public relations and press releases. Fun on occasion, but hardly productive (...or worth the price of admission. Join the CoS--where the only benefit is telling other people how great the CoS is? Heh.)

Yes, I could post on these forums for a while until I meet someone interesting and start my own side-project with them, but I could do that anyway--how did that $200 card help me?

Is it all a secret? Maybe I'm supposed to go run around impressing people for a while before I am allowed to do anything interesting in the CoS, or even TOLD of anything interesting? In short, is there some activity--ANYTHING AT ALL--that a CoS membership allows me to participate in? Is it just a conversation piece? Just a symbol with absolutely no power at all within the CoS organization?

If so, that's a pretty damn expensive symbol and as a realist (not an altruist), I would have expected better from LaVey's Church of Satan.

Or perhaps I can simplify it even further--why did YOU join the Church of Satan, and what did YOU do with that pretty red card?

CoS membership acts as a key, or a password possibly opening the way to interaction with others. This interaction is not guaranteed by being a CoS member, nor is it impossible without the membership, but it is less likely. In a sense the red card acts as a substitute for the old "secret handshake".

_________________________
Empty heads babble the most.

The good die young... because they see it's no use living if you've got to be good.John Barrymore

Interesting, but I don't really accept that given the high price of the card and the refusal to state whether there's a Grotto in my area. Even if I'm not allowed to make contact until I've proven myself, it would still be nice knowing I'm not doing this just for the privilege of participating in some chat room. I have nothing against forums and chat rooms; I just object to paying $200 for the privilege of participating.

So I guess for now I'll hold off until someone says to me "I would if you were a member." Until I reach that point, there's really no incentive for me to join.

$200.OO is a night out on the town. Maybe 2 nights for some.If you don't get it, simply don't join!Simple really.

_________________________
ďThe world, like a wolf pack is not all the licking of pups and howls by the moonlight. Sometimes there just needs to be a gnashing of teeth and a ripping of flesh to put things back into the natural order of things.Ē

XLII A.S.

"Magic is a tool and is essentially useless unless it can serve you here and now! Anything else is simply an act in faith and an excuse for failure in the here and now." XLVI A.S. R. Lang

"Chaos is a creation of mankind and does not exist within the uncompromising fascism of natures laws! Everything has order." XLVI A.S R. Lang

"To believe in Chaos one must believe that their is some kind of God who all of a sudden put everything into order! That!, I cannot relate too..."R. Lang XLVI A.S.

If you find the price too high then you are not serious. You are wasting your time and, more importantly, ours. Go away.

\

For a fucking piece of paper, YES that is a high price. And you're the one wasting your own damn time by replying to me. If you don't like my post, just fucking ignore it. Don't waste MY time with all this elitist crap or go whining to the moderator to lock the thread because you can't stand to see someone daring to suggest that you're just a bunch of fucking emo goth posers who don't actually DO anything, yet think you're cool because you spent $200 for a little red piece of paper.

You know what, I have indeed made my decision after all. Your elitist attitudes says it all.

If you're looking for something like "Show your card and get a dollar off entrees at Chili's, plus you get unlimited use of the pentagram-shaped air hockey table," then I suspect you're in for a disappointment.

I'm a member of another organization, called the Planetary Society. It's a group founded by a man I respect (Carl Sagan) that works toward a cause I believe in (the exploration of space). There are some immediate tangible benefits (the glossy magazine) but they aren't the reasons I joined. It's a way of throwing in my lot with a powerful group of like-minded people.

These are precisely the reasons I intend to affiliate with the CoS. It's a group founded by a man I respect (Anton LaVey) that works toward causes I believe in (the whole Pentagonal Revisionism shebang). There are some immediate tangible benefits ("downstairs" access here on the forum) but they aren't the reasons I intend to join. It's a way of throwing in my lot with a powerful group of like-minded people.

Oh, he will be removed, that is forsure! The fact that he cannot understand that the $200 is NOT for a red piece of paper but it is actually for Membership in the organization. He also cannot understand that you get out of it what you put into it. We do not hand anything to anyone on a silver platter ... why should we, we are after all Satanists ... and I am proud of my "elitist" attitude, it sets me apart from the rest of the people in this world who just live mundane lives and never amount to anything. When I joined the organization it was the best thing I could have done, why ... because I got my moneys worth by proving I was part of the Alien Elite. My red card sits proudly on display and was worth every penny because today, I do not even have to carry it around, I am my little red card ... everyone knows who I am. The card gets you in the door, what you do from there is up to you, not the card ... and only true Satanists will know what I am talking about because they already understand.

>>Interesting, but I don't really accept that given the >>high price of the card

You think a ONE TIME FEE of $200 is a high price?!? Either you suck at math, or you just haven't taken a look around this planet. Most organizations, and by that I mean people who actually do things outside of cyberspace (lodges, atheist organizations, religious organizations, high IQ societies, etc.) charge much more in the log run. Hell, I spend more than that on books, DVDs, and other recreational stuff in a given month. And considering how many years I've been in the COS now, it's worked out to a few bucks a month, forever decreasing.

>>For a fucking piece of paper, YES that is a high price.

I have two college degrees. So by your analogy, I paid tens of thousands of dollars for "just two fucking pieces of paper". Yet those "pieces of paper" have opened quite a few doors for me.

Of course, I could have printed out my own fancy one-page document that says "Bachelor of Mathematical Sciences" and another that says "Master of Applied Mathematics", without ever setting foot in college. But that wouldn't cut it. While my two high-tuition "papers" got me things like my present career, I still have to SHOW that I'm a person with an education that matches. Likewise there are some people who go through the motions of obtaining a college degree and then never doing anything with it, but that's not my problem nor should it be the college's problem.

If you don't get how this is in any way analogous to having a membership in the COS, chances are it isn't for you. Which is fine; you don't have to be a COS member in order to be a Satanist. Though you seem highly suspiciously defensive about it all.

>>I'm not doing this just for the privilege of >>participating in some chat room.

Well damn, I should hope so! What do you think all of us members did before we heard about this board, let alone the internet? It's not like this forum IS the COS. In fact, most of the COS members I know in real life don't even KNOW about this messageboard.

Here's what I don't get: what, exactly, do people think they "should" get when they join? Spooky silver trinkets? Coupons? Books that you probably already have? Personally this would just seem to tacky to me. I joined the organization which accurately reflects my religous principles, not a heavy metal band fan club.

Well said! Thank you Magister, you put into words much of what I myself felt. I joined the church a long time ago for myself and because I was proud of who and what I was and am, I didnít join so that I could go to meetings and have someone to complain to when things didnít go according to plan, and I didnít join so that I could be popular with my friends or associates, I certainly never asked the Church or Dr. LaVey what I would get out of being a member, it never entered into my decision, and the very idea of doing something like that is insulting and disrespectful as far as I am concerned. I have earned everything I have ever had and I would never have asked anyone to give me a hand out or the key to the door just because I thought it was owed to me, and even though I no longer have my little red card, due to an unfortunate association with a complete dickhead, I would have paid a hundred times more for it, the cost would not have mattered to me. I am very proud of myself and all that I have accomplished so far in my life, and everything I believe in, and I am not finished by a long shot! I am proud to be a member of this magnificent organization, to be listed among the talented and intelligent individuals who work every day to achieve goals most people cannot even conceive of. If any one wants to know what I got out of joining the Church of Satan, itís easyÖ I received inspiration and that was more then I ever asked for!