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re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Where I differ from Alan is that he tended to be like an apologist for Eastern beliefs where as I really include them in my critical list. I dont know if 'apologist' is right term---he would kind of make them seem that they were benevolent when 'properly' understood. But I just calls a spade a spade (as is a saying from here to mean 'I calls what I see'). Take Buddhism---their goal is stated as wanting to escape the cycle of birth and death. I see that as part of the patriarchal myths which sees the body and nature as a trap. I also am against the whole Guru trip--of so-called holy men claimed to be 'enlightened' and more advanced from 'you'

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I agree with you with that "guru" thing...same goes with priests,..etc.If there is Divinity of some sort,that you can/should/would have contact with,..then there could be absolutely no need for "middlemen".. I think sheer logic would tell that.And to Alan who is he to say,what is "properly understanding"...by the way,did you knew,that during WWII,he pretended to be episcopal reverend,so that he would avoid going to war.Does not impress me about his character.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Well I love Alan, and that is because he wasn't a hypocrite. You dont know this but through him I heard him talk about Krishnamurti, and so I checked him out and became a little obsessed with him. Not going to his talks etc, but buying his books and reading them feverishly--trying to get what I imagined he had...? what was that...? lol, errrrm. Well in one of his books --a big tome, and titled dramatically The Awakening of Intelligence--there is a picture of him looking at nature (I presume, because he would talk about observing nature without the observer and observed separated). And the way he is looking reminded me how I look when on a trip lol, i know this is mad. So in a way I was wanting some state of mind. This obviously meant that wanting that I was not content with my changing mind. This is complex to explain but bear with me. His teachings are very subtle and you feel you have to get the meaning. But what happened was I was unknowingly getting more and more under his power.
One day immediately after finishing a book of his, I went to the library for another (hit), and I found a book called Lives in the Shadow of Krishnimurti. I though 'hmmm strange title' and it was by a woman. I just thought it was someone who was talking about his ideas, but it was his secret MISTRESS lol, and as I began reading bits in the library I went into cold sweat, because she was unmasking him, and I began realizing how far gone I had become investing my life in his stuff. I actually was quite traumatized by this---but it was a powerful lesson. It is dangerous to look up to others. Respect others yes, but not imagine that they are superior to you.

With Alan it is different. I think of him like a friend, and if there was a green room after death I'd love to chill out with him I have respect for anyone who finds a way not to go to war, because war is utter insanity. That is how I feel.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I don't claim Alan is hypocrite,it was opportunism,that WWII thing,Thought I agree,that war is utter insanity,but sometimes it has been lesser evil.what would have happened,if no one would stand against Hitler in anywhere? Of course,it's different in U.S ..it was draft at that time,..and no one would really had the capability to attack to continental U.S. But we,had two wars against Soviet Union,and remained independent nation,non-occupied one,btw.Only three Capitals in europe,of those countries who participated,were able to stay unoccupied by foreign military forces: London,Moscow.and Helsinki.During the war,I mean.but mostly after it too.I know krisnamurti too,and that mistress thing also.He tried to say,if I remember correctly,that there is no gurus to follow,nor a path,except one that you make when you walk.If he succeeded in that,is another matter.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Yeah, glad you mentioned that---about he said there are no gurus, authority, or path. All well and good, but his whole act---if you will (I don't doubt he had integrity)--was of a guru. I never went to his talks, but very infrequently (this was before I had access to a computer) I would visit this very small K group who would play videos of his talks and then we'd discuss them. I would see K say to his audience in this weird way "have you got it? No you haven't" IE he was also giving out the authority that HE knew and his followers didn't. And of course this is a good strategy because it incites them to keeep coming back for more and more like a drug. So he may very well say that, but people did become obsessed with him, and under his power.
With Alan I feel a completely different vibe entirely. For one he has such an infectious sense of humour which dissolves that authoritarian pretentiousness K had. Unless controlled by K, he would tell people NOT to laugh in his audiences "because this is serious". And he always wanted the last word. he was a bit of a control-freak.

Asd for war. I have heard that argument before--with respect--which says 'what if we hadn't fought Hitler, what then?' Well Drizze, for one thing that war like most wars was fabricated by the elite for profit and to the acceptance and instigation for a State of Israel), and really all the lives lost in that war, or the war before WW1 (which my grandad was in) was absolute waste of life. NOTHING came from it. This is because war ins insanity and they are waged for profit for the few. So please see through this racket Chrizze

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I am completely aware,to my surprise,every word you say about WW's.War is racket,I know.Commander general of U.S marines told that about hundred years ago.But I still rather live in country,that got independence in 1917,rather than in dissolution of soviet union,in 1991,or so,with handful of our people left.,..But let's have that to be enough of war...You know,..those debates tend to heat,and I don't like that our good communication will stumble for that.We have our opinions,and If I want others to respect the fact that I do,I must assume this way of thinking:" I disagree of what you say,but I would die for your freedom to say it". ...Very good dylan's record,I got that on my shelf too.I like the song "when the ship comes in".
Especially this version:

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I will never go to war with you even here Chrizze, lol
I just know I would never fight in organized war BUT if someone attacked someone I love on the street I hope to think I would go for their jugular

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

How things there by the way? Our weather has gone crap again. Cold, and wet, with flashes of sun quickly submerged by grey clouds---again. And how are you feeling today?
Can I just say that you are one of the most real, and intelligent people I have met with in any forum. It is a great pleasure to meet you

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Same weather here too,..strange,I have heard that a lot,in real life,from third party,which means,it's not flattering.I have always kept things I know as general knowledge.sort of dull feeling,..It's not going to pass so soon,..I managed to get a "mean to exit",if things go bad,it calms me down,..when you DO have an option.Let's just say,its fast,firesure,painless,and don't disfigure body anyway.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I saw a documentary about this older guy going to Switzerland to Dignitas to get help with his suicide. The guy presenting this documentary had himself considered it--he is the well-known author Terry Pratchet. Is is a VERY moving documentary (I have just found the video, see below). It is first time I had ever seen someone die like that so it was deeply moving for me.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I couldn't believe first,when I stumbled upon things,that assisting in suicide in any way,is serious crime in U.K. ..here,I can provide,even potassium cyanide to someone,and sit, and watch. Assuming,I would have potassium cyanide. Only things required are,that person is sane,and that I had not been "compelled" him/her any way.but that is easily avoided,by not staying to sit,and watch.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

well true, but often i find that when i am down i dont go for laughy laughy shit, but am attracted to very deep meaningful stuff where i get catharsis. This is same as the Blues where singers sing the Blues, but in the process get relief. Rather than singin dumbass tunes like 'on the sunny side of the street' lol, though admittedly those kinds of old tunes can elevate the mood too--depending.

I think THE most important thing to get, whether you eventually are gonna kill yourself are not is an innate sense of humour. To really encourage seeing the funny side of things, even when it is dark

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

How would you evaluate my english language skills? What mistakes I tend to make?what needs improvement,etc? I ask,because,I want to make things right.I know,that I would probably pass as an american any day (my american friend said so),but probably never as englishman,unless I move there,and live there 20yrs.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I am delighted you ask me and am very glad to help you. OK I will take sentences you say that are needing help with grammar, and put mine next to them in bold to show you English grammar in a better way (or parts of your sentence). Are you happy with this way?

What mistakes I tend to make?What mistakes do I tend to make?

Actually what you have typed asking me is very good. The only bit is that bit above with a missing word lol. But I will help you every time I see your English grammar needs it. . You are very good though. I cannot speak or type ONE word of Finnish

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Yes,lack of usind DO, and DON'T instead of do not, and can't instead of cannot,was things,that my american friend also mentioned,but quite well,I believe,since I have no degree in english language,..basically I have learned it by myself.ENTHUSIASM is the key,another: -we have subtitles in TV.only programs that are for children who can't read.are dubbed.

Finnish is very hard to learn for foreigners...

Hey,just for me,read an article from wipedia "finnish grammar",... Then you might get the idea,why the english language was so easy to learn,at least for me.it is not so long article,and then we can discuss more about language.and also reasons for those typical errors I still have.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Yes,lack of usind DO, and DON'T instead of do not, and can't instead of cannot,was things,that my american friend also mentioned,but quite well,I believe,since I have no degree in english language,..basically I have learned it by myself.ENTHUSIASM is the key,another: -we have subtitles in TV.only programs that are for children who can't read.are dubbed.

Finnish is very hard to learn for foreigners...

Hey,just for me,read an article from wipedia "finnish grammar",... Then you might get the idea,why the english language was so easy to learn,at least for me.it is not so long article,and then we can discuss more about language.and also reasons for those typical errors I still have.

It seems,that I tend to write english,like it is spoken,written language is always different.AmI right?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

It seems,that I tend to write english,like it is spoken,written language is always different.Am I right.And those are AMERICAN movies,that I have watched,and american magazines,etc,..But "Queens english" is so clear,that you probably understand it,even if you do not. I hope to master something like that someday.Or would that be approppriate? I know,that social classes are identified,or assumed,the way you speak in U.K Is this still the case?

95% of typos are because I mainly use iPad,and fail to notice typo within 10 minutes,which is editing time here.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Yes it is interesting. It is amazing you have learn this yourself though, even if your modest and say it is easy. It is not THAT easy for me and I have been talking it since the beginning lol. But I get by and will help you become fluent in typing and hence speaking as much as I am able.
I believe English, unlike say French, does not have male and feminine words, like the French have le and la

I HATED HATED school, but we had a French class. At that time I was more wanting to learn Spanish (and I like Flamenco and Spanish--though I cannot speak it--just the odd word), but I wish I have learn t French, as it is a beautiful language.
Another language I really love is Portuguese. I became familiar with this language because I really love Brazilian music, like Bossa Nova etc, and the language is very sensual. I learnt a guitar tune for very first time few months ago that took me AGES. I had to work out what this guy was playing--just his fingers--from a Youtube video lol. And the chords are quite exotic. LOL OMG I got into trouble at this Jazz guitar forum because I dared question some of the professional guitarist there when they claimed a chord was a particular chord when it didn't sound like it to my ears. I hurt some egos, but I was right in the end. I felt SO good when I finally could get all the chords down---I did their tabs, and started playing it. I have a LONG LONG weay to get good at it, but I really love this tune, and words in English and especially Portuguese This is the song and tune I was learning. This is not the actual video I was learning off, but I love this version from the guy who wrote it:

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

One thing in Finnish,what is rampant in english,and rare in Finnish,are so called "phrasal verbs",when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,almost overnight.before that,Already had quite good vocabulary,but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

And our words almost always belong only to one class of words.noun is noun,verb is verb,adjective is adjective,etc,In english,same word could belong all of those classes,and by context you see,which one it is.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Originally Posted by Chrizze

One thing in Finnish,what is rampant in english,and rare in Finnish,are so called "phrasal verbs",when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,almost overnight.before that,Already had quite good vocabulary,but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.

One thing in Finnish, what is rampant in english,and rare in FinnishOne thing in Finnish, that is rampant in English, and rare in Finnish

when I got that idea,whole language suddenly opened to me,when I got that idea, the whole language suddenly opened to me,

before that, Already had quite good vocabulary, but still wondered,why I not understand,for example,lyrics of some song.Before that, I already had quite a good vocabulary, but I still wondered why I did not understand, for example, the lyrics of some song.

I can construct eligible sentences, I think, but when it comes to talking about the technical grammar of English I am not good at that. and have to go running to a dictionary lol

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Yes,I often forget the articles,"The,a, and an"because we don't have them in our language.When I speak with my american friend,I quite often call a person "he",even thouhgt the person in question is "she".Because we dont have a gender in our language either.Funny thing is,that I never call "she" as "he",thought.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I could quite happily enjoy how you communicate English. But because you asked I will show you how I do it. often I will type very not proper English' --I will try and express myself via certain ways. I may say gonna instead of 'going to' or stayyyyyy in stead of stay to communicate drawn out sound and emphasis. I mess around with it. But it will be good that you learn the 'correct' way and from there you can also experiment as you see fit. I mean look what Afro Americans do with English...lol I LOVE all that. It is very creative

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information,than ten in any other. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Having these discussions with you have been very therapeutic...sheer fact,that you care,and are willing to take this effort,to someone,you have never ever met.I appreciate it a great deal.I just wanted you to know.

By the way,do you like science - fiction? In any form?
I would also like to know,but of course,you don't have to tell anything.. How old are you? What is your vocation? ...if you don't eant to go specific...could you be ,my child,brother,of father,by your age range? Blue collar,white collar worker?

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
Martin Luther King Jr.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Originally Posted by Chrizze

Are you aware about the Linguist called David Crystal? ..,His big,almost A2 sized 400- or so pages "bible" solely about grammar? it's very easy to read,but even one sentence in his books contais more information,than ten in any other. this is the book I have,and Talk about:

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Originally Posted by Chrizze

Having these discussions with you have been very therapeutic...sheer fact,that you care,and are willing to take this effort,to someone,you have never ever met.I appreciate it a great deal.I just wanted you to know.

Really pleased to hear that, and thank you for telling me. I also like to tell people what I feel to.

By the way,do you like science - fiction? In any form?
I would also like to know,but of course,you don't have to tell anything.. How old are you? What is your vocation? ...if you don't eant to go specific...could you be ,my child,brother,of father,by your age range? Blue collar,white collar worker?

It depends. For example if it is REALLY cutting edge and is trying to reveal the dangers of our civilization and what it is doing to the living world then yes I have time for science fiction, but if it is just empty and celebrating the insanity of this world then no.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Yes,I have read about those studies as well.,..but what bothers me,is a kind of an "chicken and the egg" problem...are you depressed,because you serotonin levels are low? Or will your serotonin levels go down,when you get depressed? If first is true,then there maybe place for medication,but if it is latter,it would be,like taking some other drug to feel better..like,I occasionally have this habit with opiates..I don't try to prove either theory,since it is impossible to me,but they still can't measure what exactly happens on those synaptic clefts,where those drugs are suppose to take action..I don't think,that blood levels are accurately enough to tell things.It would perhaps clarify things,if it would be posdible to administer those neurotransmitter chemicals,serotonin,dopamine,or norepinephrine directly,but those chemicals don't cross blood-brain barrier.

re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Of course.my reply was to JohannBessler.I only hope,that I will be able to be without too much prejudices,when I see that doctor,..because,he is two years my junior.I am growing old.. or perhaps I am little bit of an ageist.If I would be 57yrs old,that would not matter...two years.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

age is difficult to explain toe the young IF they are caught up in 'how old is you--ism?'...and if your over 30 they go, 'OMG yourrr ANCIENT' lol.

Ie., what it feels like when you get older. I cannot speak for everyone but it is a feeling like being eternal and yet time is changing.

Even that don't explain it (notice I used bad English then)

. I have met people in their 30s who seem old to me. many people my age seem ancient to me lol. So I reckon that a lot to do with this sense i have is not getting rigid. many people get into a rigid ways of seeing and experiencing reality and they become old in the mind also and this shows itself to me, and yet I know that many older people also feel young or in a weird place where time is changing and yet...... but spirit never ages and yet it does. It kinda deepens? Experi--ence

when i meet some young people I dont feel oldER. And yet when I meet some people I feel youngER...is very strange

Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Please tell,anything will be considered I do not have ...you know,I am not Sworn-in-antidrug fanatic Per se,I only thought,that we still do not know enough of brains..and those drugs,they want to that they have properties,that contradict each other.they should enhance your mood,made you happy,take emotional pain away,and same time dont do those things,because,addiction possibilities,etc.that's why I have self-medicate sometimes.and things,that scare,are side effects,possible permanent brain damaged,etc..for example,valium shrinks your brain,SSRI's could give you forever lasting sexual dysfunction,etc..Wellbutrin (voxra on here),is best so far,..no weight gain,no side effects,(yet,at least),no withdrawals..I have been without sometime to test.increased libido..
It's chemical name is Bupropion...it is modified amphetamine....what,if I take it ten years? ..second issue is,that it is metabolised through same CYP450 system in liver,than some of those self meficating drugs..thus decreasing their efficacy.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

It depends. For example if it is REALLY cutting edge and is trying to reveal the dangers of our civilization and what it is doing to the living world then yes I have time for science fiction, but if it is just empty and celebrating the insanity of this world then no

Just that kind of science fiction is not so common,and much more familiar from books,than films....what you think would be those that constitute such scifi? I would think..Isaac asimov,Arthur C.Clarke,All Russian writers,that has been published in west,..Doris Lessing...Dan Simmons..Aldous Huxley,.George Orwell.to mention a few.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I always had have quite different circadian rhytm,than other people.If,it would be possible,I would be those.who would do only graveyard shift.when I am yaking couple of fays off of my (volunteer charity) job,I will go to sleep about 02:00 - 04-:00, and wake up about 12:00 - 13:00...I am in peak mental performance.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Originally Posted by Chrizze

Just that kind of science fiction is not so common,and much more familiar from books,than films....what you think would be those that constitute such scifi? I would think..Isaac asimov,Arthur C.Clarke,All Russian writers,that has been published in west,..Doris Lessing...Dan Simmons..Aldous Huxley,.George Orwell.to mention a few.

I LOVED seeing the film 2001 A Space Odyssey. I even saw that film after taking LSD when I was 15, and living in London. It was the weirdest experience! Its director Stanly Kubrick is a brilliant director (MASSIVE loss to lose him!). Anyway, it is just weird enough when your not Tripping, but what happened was I also at parts of film began watching the audeince watching the film too LOL

I like The Matrix, and Bladerunner etc. It is when they explore dystopia I like, because I am very aware of that now. How technology can alienate people from each other, other species, and nature.

Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Originally Posted by Chrizze

I always had have quite different circadian rhytm,than other people.If,it would be possible,I would be those.who would do only graveyard shift.when I am yaking couple of fays off of my (volunteer charity) job,I will go to sleep about 02:00 - 04-:00, and wake up about 12:00 - 13:00...I am in peak mental performance.

Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

I depends,how you define word "have".The work I do,is that we collect food from supermarkets from our city,a couple of days before,when their "best before" date expires,and deliver them to poor and needy.our workers "salary" is that,we can take food home as much as we can carry.plus there is cook,that cooks a hot meal to us everyday.I havent bought anything from grocery store last eight years,except sugar,and smokes,..remember, I am in on disability pension,so this saves me about 350$ a month,.so, I can have iPads,and such things.so...no,no gunpoint,but practically,..yes.I want to have decent lifestyle.And at least contribute something back to society.Not that I care that much,but when someone is calling me "paracite" because of pension,I can straight things up.

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Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter.
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Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

JohannBessler: - very interesting thought indeed...but to go to sleep at 1800 ..its daytime here! In summer.But the whole idea itself seems very sound.yet another example how our evolution has not excatly managed to catch up last two centuries of technological changes in our life.

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Re: Suicide attempt,that almost succeeded.But I only wanted pain to stop

Originally Posted by Chrizze

Have you watched anything lately? I liked The Prometheus. Have you been reading Philip K.Dick's books? To me,he is influenced perhaps the most to my thinking...from scifi writers.

I rarely read science fiction or even fiction, but non fiction. The book I am reading at the moment is by Hans Peter Duerr titled Dreamtime: Concerning the Boundary between Wilderness and Civilization its a strange book in that it is quite thick but the actual book is not as big as the part with all the notes in. So your reading a page and looking at all the notes in as you go along ---well some of them lol