John Fox is the biggest dope of the week. This freaking puscyy takes a godamn knee!!!! With 30+ seconds left and 2 timeouts in regulation. Foxy looked like Santa Claus out there, freezing his a$$ off, dude must've had a brain freeze for a second ans thought tebow was still the qb. That's why he took the knee.Has to be.

You would be the same guy who would come on Covers and curse at Fox if Manning had thrown a pick in the final 30 seconds.

Vanzack is right. It is technically smarter to go for two when you are down 12 with the clock winding down in the 4th.

Im not going into deatail why, Vanzack already did and if you don't agree/understand you are very short sided.

It is a judgement call, and I understand why some people would kick the EP to go down 11. But for me, I want to know what I need and when I need it....if you wait to go for 2 until the final seconds, you are damn sure out of luck if you don't get it....If you don't get it with 7 minutes left, well you still have 7 minutes to get what you need.

They are trying to avoid announcers and fans from saying " Had they went for 1 then they would only be down by 14"

I promise you no coach gives a chit what any fan or announcer says.

As for the Atlanta situation, that was still the 3rd quarter. What if they go for two miss it, and then allow two 4th Q Fgs and two 4th Q TDs and lose 27-26 (it is still very possible to get 4 possesions in 14 minutes.)

You have pimply 12 year olds calling people morons, stupid, dumb,etc. I don't know if you have taken reading in your school yet but I'm sure you will one day. What don't YOU understand about my post? You are the genius. I think you need to quit your job at McDonalds and go to an NFL team to sell your groundbreaking ideas. You can possibly be standing beside Belichik or Tomlin with your crystal ball and let them know if their two point conversion is going to work at the end of the game.

WOW...

I do want to thank you though. I'm home, sick with the flu and you just game me one of those laugh out loud moments.

Almost 50000 posts???

Do you only comment on your own posts or are you one of those guys that have an opinion on everything on this site? You are the genius after all and I guess we should just thank you for your thoughts (apparently A LOT of them.) Good luck with your NFL career PAL.

If this is true then judging from his starting date he made this account from the womb.

As for the Atlanta situation, that was still the 3rd quarter. What if they go for two miss it, and then allow two 4th Q Fgs and two 4th Q TDs and lose 27-26 (it is still very possible to get 4 possesions in 14 minutes.)

I guess you missed the part where I said..." but I can see why some would choose not to."

Usually just read along but Im gonna take a stab at explaining what Van is saying because my friends failed to comprehend when I was stating the same point during the game.

For the arguments sake lets say that no matter the time of the game the 2 pt conversion has the same success rate. If you disagree with that then that's a whole different topic. Houston scores to go down 12 XP/2pt pending

Assume the 2 pt conversion will be successful when attempted

1. Attempted now and converted down 10, you need a td and fg to tie

2. Kick XP now, later kick fg, score td, convert 2 and game is tied

SAME RESULT

Assume the 2 pt conversion will fail when attempted (here's where the difference comes in)

1. Attempt now and miss, down 12 and need 2 TD's

2. Kick XP now down 11, next drive stall out so kick a FG down 8, Next drive TD then missed 2, still down 2. NOW YOU NEED A 3RD SCORE, whereas if you knew ahead of time you were going to miss the 2 (by attempting it earlier) you would have went for it on 4th down

Hopefully that clears it up a little bit, not really looking to argue but I feel that makes perfect sense and is the right move especially considering there are 5 minutes left so any opposition scoring drive should end your chances regardless

I guess you missed the part where I said..." but I can see why some would choose not to."

I wasn't criticizing you in regard to Atlanta, just giving my opinion. (although the more I think about it the more I'm not sure) It depends on a lot of things to me. Opposing kicker, 2pt conversion %, play calling, feel, just to name a few.

Down 12 score a TD + Xp down 5 Down 11 TD + 2pt conv. down 3 miss it down 5. You get the ball back with a minute or so, how much would you rather be trailing by 3 or 5 ? If Houston missed the 2pt conv. the possibility of a game tying FG was gone. You have to wait till the latest moment possible to go for 2.

Usually just read along but Im gonna take a stab at explaining what Van is saying because my friends failed to comprehend when I was stating the same point during the game.

For the arguments sake lets say that no matter the time of the game the 2 pt conversion has the same success rate. If you disagree with that then that's a whole different topic. Houston scores to go down 12 XP/2pt pending

Assume the 2 pt conversion will be successful when attempted

1. Attempted now and converted down 10, you need a td and fg to tie

2. Kick XP now, later kick fg, score td, convert 2 and game is tied

SAME RESULT

Assume the 2 pt conversion will fail when attempted (here's where the difference comes in)

1. Attempt now and miss, down 12 and need 2 TD's

2. Kick XP now down 11, next drive stall out so kick a FG down 8, Next drive TD then missed 2, still down 2. NOW YOU NEED A 3RD SCORE, whereas if you knew ahead of time you were going to miss the 2 (by attempting it earlier) you would have went for it on 4th down

Hopefully that clears it up a little bit, not really looking to argue but I feel that makes perfect sense and is the right move especially considering there are 5 minutes left so any opposition scoring drive should end your chances regardless

The situation is assuming you are down 18 in the final qtr....

So, it is safe to assume you will be attempting 1 or even 2 onside kicks during this qtr....

So, it is safe to assume the opp will have a good chance to kick atleast 1 fg.....

Now...lets say you go for 2 after the 1st td, down 12 to try to make it a 10 point game....if you miss, then the opp gets a fg you are down 15 and not 14....

So now, you are ending up needing to go for 2 a 2nd time.....

I dont remember seeing many teams going for 2 down 12....in fact I cant remember any other games this year a team did it besides Houston Sunday....(I didnt read the whole thread so maybe it happened, but there is a very good reason teams rarely do it)

No offense to all the very smart people on this site who should be in college and the pros coaching football teams....but there is a reason they make millions

Down 12 score a TD + Xp down 5 Down 11 TD + 2pt conv. down 3 miss it down 5. You get the ball back with a minute or so, how much would you rather be trailing by 3 or 5 ? If Houston missed the 2pt conv. the possibility of a game tying FG was gone. You have to wait till the latest moment possible to go for 2.

You're saying down 12 assuming they miss the first conversion, if you assume they miss it then you have to assume they are gonna miss it when down 11 and score then try it. Either way down 5 points no difference except if they go for it earlier and miss then a FG is out of the question

So, it is safe to assume you will be attempting 1 or even 2 onside kicks during this qtr....

So, it is safe to assume the opp will have a good chance to kick atleast 1 fg.....

Now...lets say you go for 2 after the 1st td, down 12 to try to make it a 10 point game....if you miss, then the opp gets a fg you are down 15 and not 14....

So now, you are ending up needing to go for 2 a 2nd time.....

I dont remember seeing many teams going for 2 down 12....in fact I cant remember any other games this year a team did it besides Houston Sunday....(I didnt read the whole thread so maybe it happened, but there is a very good reason teams rarely do it)

No offense to all the very smart people on this site who should be in college and the pros coaching football teams....but there is a reason they make millions

2 Pt conversions are successful around 48%. Percent chances of the first being successful is 48%. In the 52% chance that its unsuccessful and a second has to be attempted then the conversion success is 48% so .48 + (.52x.48) is .7296 or 72.96%. So that cancels that argument where the other team gets a FG at some point.

Furthermore, if you get the 2 the first time and the other team gets a FG now 2 TD wins the game instead of ties if you kick the first XP. This was basically the case later in the game except the texans allowed too much time to run off before they made the Pats kick a FG, or more likely punt the ball if not for an awful defensive holding on Jackson. If not for the penalty they would have been getting the ball with over 4 minutes left. Down 10 and knowing they need a FG and TD+PAT or being down 12 and needing 2 TD's is much better than being Down 11 and unsure of what you need with a few minutes left

I think there are too many pros, cons and unknowns to come up with absolutely one correct way to go about either of these situations. For me, I like to have options. Had Houston not completed the conversion succesfully they would have had no option but to score two touchdowns. Had they played it "safe" and kicked the point after they still would have had options. Ok, they still need a FG + TD + 2pt. Lets say they get back into the endzone but miss the 2pt. They still have a chance with another possession and TD. Convert and they're within a FG.

Now let's go with Houston with the ball down eleven facing 4th and 10 at the N.E.30 with 1:00 on the clock. They're still gonna need another possession.So do they not kick the fieldgoal and preserve the clock in fear that they won't convert the 2pt should they happen to get the ball back and find the endzone? Some of you are too smart for your own good. Like being down 12 is much better than being down 11 . First time I have heard that one ever in life. Good one!

I think there are too many pros, cons and unknowns to come up with absolutely one correct way to go about either of these situations. For me, I like to have options. Had Houston not completed the conversion succesfully they would have had no option but to score two touchdowns. Had they played it "safe" and kicked the point after they still would have had options. Ok, they still need a FG + TD + 2pt. Lets say they get back into the endzone but miss the 2pt. They still have a chance with another possession and TD. Convert and they're within a FG.

Now let's go with Houston with the ball down eleven facing 4th and 10 at the N.E.30 with 1:00 on the clock. They're still gonna need another possession.So do they not kick the fieldgoal and preserve the clock in fear that they won't convert the 2pt should they happen to get the ball back and find the endzone? Some of you are too smart for your own good. Like being down 12 is much better than being down 11 . First time I have heard that one ever in life. Good one!

Please stick to forklift driving or whatever it is you do for a living.

2 Pt conversions are successful around 48%. Percent chances of the first being successful is 48%. In the 52% chance that its unsuccessful and a second has to be attempted then the conversion success is 48% so .48 + (.52x.48) is .7296 or 72.96%. So that cancels that argument where the other team gets a FG at some point.

I havent been able to find the stats on 2 pnt conver this year, but 48% so very, very high. According to you and your theory, if that is correct, teams should go for 2 everytime.

Either way, your math is very wrong. If you have a 48% chance the first time, you only have a 48% chance the 2nd time. You dont add the first attempt. That wouldnt make sense.

You are trying to say you have a 73% of making a 2pnt conversion every 2 attempts

That is incorrect....teams would go for 2 everytime, because that means they would get a push 73% while having a 27% of making both and getting an extra 2 points, getting 4 instead of 2.

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