[COMPLETED] Dedenne

Super Moderator

<ul>
<li>Base 101 Speed is pretty good.</li>
<li>It can get off a decently fast support move in a pinch and then die for a teammate to come in and immediately benefit off of the free switch.</li>
</ul>

[Cons]

<ul>
<li>Dedenne has terrible bulk combined with mediocre Special Attack.</li>
<li>It also has special movepool consisting of nearly every Electric-type attack with only Grass Knot and Hidden Power for coverage.</li>
<li>It doesn't even get a special Fairy STAB.</li>
<li>Dedenne can't sweep, can't take hits, and can't really support its team, meaning that it can't really do much of anything.</li>
</ul>

<p>All things considered, Dedenne is probably the worst Pokemon from the new generation, but it can at least attempt to support its team with access to weather moves and a solid Speed stat. The premise of the set is quite simply to use either Rain Dance or Sunny Day to create opportunities for teammates to set up or just start attacking the opposing team. After using either Rain Dance or Sunny Day, U-turn can be used to pivot out and bring in said teammate and should always be used over Volt Switch despite its lower damage output in order to keep opposing Ground-types from switching in for free. Nuzzle can be used to paralyze the occasional faster foe without fear of being Taunted, while Toxic can be used instead to put pressure on defensive Pokemon that don't mind being paralyzed. Finally, Thunderbolt will rarely be used, but it keeps Dedenne from being complete Taunt bait and can be used to finish off a weakened opponent. Thunder can be given consideration as well should you be running Rain Dance.</p>

<p>Good teammates for Dedenne are pretty much anything that appreciates weather being set for it. Kingdra, Ludicolo, and even Toxicroak can take advantage of rain being set to either start attacking the opponent immediately or set up for a sweep. Meanwhile, Venusaur and Mega Houndoom are some of your best bets to utilize the sun that Dedenne can set. An alternate EV spread of 252 HP / 252 Spe can be used instead, but you're actually usually at a bigger advantage if Dedenne is knocked out immediately after setting up weather for your team, as it allows for an immediate free switch. Still, 31 IVs should be used in all of Dedenne's defensive stats to keep it from being OHKOed by powerful priority, such as Choice Band Dragonite's Extreme Speed.</p>

[Checks and Counters]

<p>To put it bluntly, just about anything with decent or better offenses can knock out Dedenne, but the best way to check it is to take advantage of the turns when it is supporting its team. Ground-types are your best bet for this, as the best thing Dedenne can do to them is Toxic. Excadrill doesn't even mind that, and it can use Rapid Spin or set up Stealth Rock or a Swords Dance against Dedenne. Zygarde and Diggersby can also set up against Dedenne using Dragon Dance or Coil in the case of the former and Bulk Up or Swords Dance in the case of the latter. If you're trying to prevent Dedenne from setting up to begin with, pretty much anything that outspeeds it can do so. Still, effective use of Dedenne will likely prevent this from happening, as its user can choose to set up only when the time is right. Ultimately, because Dedenne doesn't pose much of a threat on its own, a more effective way of defeating it is by watching out for what it is Dedenne is actually supporting and trying to check and counter that.</p>

Moderator

Nah, I'd leave Thunderbolt alone. Thunderbolt is the kind of move you use when you need a little extra oomph to your attack. Volt Switch is even weaker...and you have U-turn to carry out its function.

I think C&C should have something along the lines of 'everything with a strong, non-SE STAB', which is pretty much...what beats it. Also, anything faster with said strong move (think Noivern, Mega Gengar...) prevents it from setting weather, or stuff like CB Nite or Lucario with Extreme Speed.

It can also, again, somewhat check Talonflame (at least cause it to take BB recoil damage).

I'd say that it can be used as a back-up setter (or the first setter) so you don't have to bring in your inducer every time.

Super Moderator

There's really no reason to run Volt Switch. It's not going to do a whole lot of damage anyways, and nothing can block your U-turn except for Shedinja.

I also already mentioned in Checks and Counters that faster stuff can prevent it from even setting up its weather, and (Mega) Lucario can't OHKO with an unboosted Extreme Speed/Bullet Punch. CB Dragonite can OHKO after SR with Extreme Speed, but I don't know that it's that necessary to mention it specifically. If QC wants me to, I will.

Also changed Thunder Wave to Nuzzle and cut the mention of Electric/Fairy coverage in the Pros section.

If we're going to give Dedenne an OU analysis, can we also give one to Emolga? It's awful, but at least it's the only thing that learns Baton Pass in addition to being immune to both Electric and Ground. :P

Otherwise, I really have no idea why this thing has an analysis. For lulz, I guess?

Moderator

If we're going to give Dedenne an OU analysis, can we also give one to Emolga? It's awful, but at least it's the only thing that learns Baton Pass in addition to being immune to both Electric and Ground. :P

Otherwise, I really have no idea why this thing has an analysis. For lulz, I guess?

Click to expand...

Well, it's simply that every fully-evolved XY Pokemon is getting a preview -- to show what they can do. I'm sure Dedenne wouldn't be the only one not getting a preview if any XY fully-evolved Pokemon did not get previews as well.

Super Moderator

Of course the pokemon is totally unviable and shouldn't ever be used, but I feel like you should make any set it has based around it's more or less signature ability in cheek pouch. It restores HP as you eat a berry, so it could be used with substitute and sitrus or something (petaya!?!) Then it could use covet to steal an item while hitting with powerful (lol) +1 bolt beam. And covet spam could get rid of items with scary sweepers. I'm thinking something like sub/covet/discharge/HP ice.

With the above set it could probably beat assault vest unown 1 on 1. But I'm not sure HP psychic is pretty strong.

If we're going to give Dedenne an OU analysis, can we also give one to Emolga? It's awful, but at least it's the only thing that learns Baton Pass in addition to being immune to both Electric and Ground. :P

Otherwise, I really have no idea why this thing has an analysis. For lulz, I guess?

Well, its lack of inherent weakness to Water-type attacks (from Rotom-W and Mega Gyarados in particular), taking only 2X damage from Ice moves, and the ability to use Special Attacks more effectively is nice. It also gets a +1 boost in Speed when it gets hit by an Electric attack, which is better than nothing!

I am not encouraging people to use Emolga on BP Chain teams, but at least it has a microscopic niche, which Dedenne lacks. :P

Super Moderator

Of course the pokemon is totally unviable and shouldn't ever be used, but I feel like you should make any set it has based around it's more or less signature ability in cheek pouch. It restores HP as you eat a berry, so it could be used with substitute and sitrus or something (petaya!?!) Then it could use covet to steal an item while hitting with powerful (lol) +1 bolt beam. And covet spam could get rid of items with scary sweepers. I'm thinking something like sub/covet/discharge/HP ice.

With the above set it could probably beat assault vest unown 1 on 1. But I'm not sure HP psychic is pretty strong.

Click to expand...

The difference is that the above set isn't trying to kill things; it's trying to be viable. At least with this set, it can actually do something. That set can hit something and POSSIBLY steal an item and then die. This set dies fast, but it actually benefits off of Dedenne's awful stats.

Super Moderator

I would say yes, but as it stands, CB Dnite can only OHKO w/ Espeed like half the time after SR. Rather not make that 100% of the time. It's situational, but still, no reason to make Dedenne even less effective :x