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but kagami was probably dead when Tobi summoned Kurama and fought Minato,hence he shouldn't have been alive during the massacre... that's why I expect this flashback to fill those remaining holes...

once again agreed...but kagami could very well have been the father of obito and shisui right?

so why couldn't izuna be father of kagami...in which this case...madara would know what he was waiting for or should i say his anticipation would be rewarded.

because,he knows obito's lineage...being related and all...just my theory.but there is something definitely fishy about why obito went along with itachi in the massacre,why he let him live afterwards and why he even gave a damn about sasuke(itachi was the one close to shisui).

i mentioned before about two chaps ago...that madara was standing over obito's bedside like a love-stricken mother worried about her baby....
we will soon see why madara had his eye(pun)on obito...

Keeping Itachi around could have very well been because he had awakened MS and Sussano and Obito did not and thus was cautious with him. Prior to Itachi the only Uchiha to awaken Sussano to our knowledge is Madara, meaning Obito likely respected Itachi's power, considering without Hashirama's genes, Obito would be nothing in front of Itachi even with his MS jutsu.

Saying that, obviously he had other motives. Itachi and Sasuke represented the last chance to create an EMS pair. Obito would need this to re-create the Rinnegan incase something happened to Nagato and Madara's original Rinnegan was lost.

"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

you know matti...i've been on the kick that obito was some kin to izuna for a while...kagami may be his boy(son)...shisui and obito being his sons.
this would give madara more than enough reason to watch over these two...because plain and simple obito wanted shisui's eye...why?how does he know what it does?so on and so forth....

another point to make about obito's power/skill/intellect(potentially)was dependant on his sensei(minato)...i think that their team mirrors team7 respectively.
the strongest shinobi teacher in the village is in charge of the presumably strongest team/individuals in the class(minato<kakashi/obito...kakashi<naruto sasuke)...and both weak guys in the"beginning"have a love interest with their fellow kinouchi(rin/sakura)...

what i'm trying to say...obito...reguardless of what he showed us before...and people believed(until recent chap).was bound to be really strong(it being through lineage,training or his commitment to his comrades...like naruto).

that very well could be it

But regarding the eye i always assumed Madara told him about special Eyes...Or he could have learned of it from another Uchiha(it also seemed to be a somewhat well know eye tech)........I hope we find out what the Uchiha were doing during the 9tails attack

"Keep Eating Shit For The Rest Of Your Life " - 愛憎のロクサーヌ- Roxanne of Love and Hate

But regarding the eye i always assumed Madara told him about special Eyes...Or he could have learned of it from another Uchiha(it also seemed to be a somewhat well know eye tech)........I hope we find out what the Uchiha were doing during the 9tails attack

why would he curse danzou for destroying the eye?

he virtually had excess to the rinnegan...KA wasn't necessarily needed...unless

obito needed it to counter madara or to use on sasuke to make him link with gedo...

but,i think shisui has more meaning to obito than we know about at this moment...he was to important to itachi for him to just be in a couple of panels....

let's imagine obito seen himself within itachi...but itachi was willing to risk it all for his brother...maybe obito regretted not stepping in before shisui(his brother)was sacrificed...another example...

Madara and or Sasuke should be controllable the same way Nagato controlled his six paths of pains. He even told naruto that he could control him because he was so close to him. It shouldn't be any harder for Obito to do it, the only problem is getting the rods into Madara and or Sasuke.

Naruto's sealing-cloak is ugly, he needs to finish his chakra agreement with kyuubi already!

Keeping Itachi around could have very well been because he had awakened MS and Sussano and Obito did not and thus was cautious with him. Prior to Itachi the only Uchiha to awaken Sussano to our knowledge is Madara, meaning Obito likely respected Itachi's power, considering without Hashirama's genes, Obito would be nothing in front of Itachi even with his MS jutsu.

Saying that, obviously he had other motives. Itachi and Sasuke represented the last chance to create an EMS pair. Obito would need this to re-create the Rinnegan incase something happened to Nagato and Madara's original Rinnegan was lost.

What I don't get about this is that Madara and/or Tobi drove him/themselves into a corner by slaughtering the clan. They killed all their possible Sharingan pawns when they could've just been picking them off one by one for Izanagi fodder eyes. Instead they really gambled on Itachi/Sasuke... Speaking of, WHAT THE HELL DOES TOBI NEED WITH SASUKE?! He needs to be synced with Gedo Mazo, but for what?

And even if the clan *had* to be killed, since Danzou was behind it and the Konoha top brass were at least knowledgeable about it happening, Tobi could have helped a few pairs of brothers escape, under the guise of helping them. Mid-massacre. That would be pretty cool, if I wasn't so sick of Uchiha by this point.

Well they spent most of there time in battle and they all some way or another enjoyed battle so i always assumed they were kinda on the crazy side....and the whole spending years of killing there friends and family.....they are taught from a young age that inorder to gain power in the clan you must be willing to kill to get that power...and to keep it

Gonna go out of my way and assume a whole lot of incest was also involved. The Senju seemed to spread their genetics outward, and the Uchiha, well... man they all looked a whole lot alike, and all seem to have some kind of mental instability >_>

Eeyup. And the worst part is that Obito was the shining example of there actually being an exception to the rule of the seemingly universally emotionally unbalanced Uchiha clan.

Really? The only one? We're not including when the entirety of the Uchiha clan forced Madara to call a truce with the Senju in hopes of peace instead of war? No?

What about when the majority of the clan betrayed Madara again by choosing Hashirama as the Hokage because he wasn't a War Horse that wanted to lead them back toward the life of bloodshed they lived prior to the peace treaty? I understand that when the only Uchiha that get screen time are badguys, it helps make people think that they're all badguys. But according to history, not all of them are.

I mean, it wouldn't be fair to claim that all Hoozuki are bloodlusted maniacs would it? Just because the two we've seen are?

Don't forget Itachi. I mean, he avoided killing people when possible. He was also a gentleman in fights, never belittled others or said anything bad. He even complimented people who did well against him. That's like saying all Namikaze are talentless or everyone with Rinnegan is stupid just based on Naruto or Nagato. The logic you guys apply when it comes to Uchiha... jeez.

Anyway, methinks this chapter sets up Tobi turning good or foreshadows it. If Rin really was a double agent, or if she really had to die for her and/or Konoha's sake, then Tobi might turn good.

Like itachi said the village does have it's dark side and it's inconsistencies , the senju clan have so much fault of the rebellion of the uchiha against the village because they we're pushed in a corner and being discriminated and as madara said when uchiha clan open their eyes was to late and don't take me wrong sasuse's father could find a better way of bringing the uchiha back as the main clan instead of a civil war but people like danzou got their hands dirty of uchiha's blood.
Senju clan was so scared of the uchiha because they knew that uchihas possessed great power that evolved with fighting/experience and sorrow/trauma, uchiha posses the power of controlling a tailed beast while senju only got one shinobi that posses mokuton and be able to control the tails beast(hashirama), besides him and the 2nd hokage, we haven't see anything especial about senju clan..

Don't forget Itachi. I mean, he avoided killing people when possible. He was also a gentleman in fights, never belittled others or said anything bad. He even complimented people who did well against him. That's like saying all Namikaze are talentless or everyone with Rinnegan is stupid just based on Naruto or Nagato. The logic you guys apply when it comes to Uchiha... jeez.

Itachi could have solved a lot of problems in the series by not oh-so-carefully guiding Sasuke down the hate path. He didn't have to do that; Sasuke has done nothing to deserve the power that Itachi wanted to give him.

Anyway, methinks this chapter sets up Tobi turning good or foreshadows it. If Rin really was a double agent, or if she really had to die for her and/or Konoha's sake, then Tobi might turn good.

You know... if Obito does become good, it'd be so that he can die aiding Naruto. Perhaps saving Sasuke from having to do the same.

Originally Posted by badluckartist

Itachi could have solved a lot of problems in the series by not oh-so-carefully guiding Sasuke down the hate path. He didn't have to do that; Sasuke has done nothing to deserve the power that Itachi wanted to give him.

But then, how would Itachi have redeemed the name of the Uchiha clan? His objective was for Sasuke to become an Avenger, kill him, and then go down in history as the ninja who proved not all Uchiha were evil. He also would've been boosted into legend as the guy who dealt a lethal blow to the Akatsuki organization by killing their best (you're damn right he was the best) operative.

Deserved the power? No. But Sasuke gaining this power would've served Itachi and let him die happy knowing his brother would have a good life, and Konoha would thrive. Granted... he should've rethought things, or at the very least planned for the worst case scenario. Which admittedly, was what Kotoamatsukami was supposed to handle. But I think there had to have been a better way to go about what he wanted.

What I don't get about this is that Madara and/or Tobi drove him/themselves into a corner by slaughtering the clan. They killed all their possible Sharingan pawns when they could've just been picking them off one by one for Izanagi fodder eyes. Instead they really gambled on Itachi/Sasuke... Speaking of, WHAT THE HELL DOES TOBI NEED WITH SASUKE?! He needs to be synced with Gedo Mazo, but for what?

And even if the clan *had* to be killed, since Danzou was behind it and the Konoha top brass were at least knowledgeable about it happening, Tobi could have helped a few pairs of brothers escape, under the guise of helping them. Mid-massacre. That would be pretty cool, if I wasn't so sick of Uchiha by this point.

He wanted their eyes, nothing more. He needed a few pawns not a dozen. Only a few of them (Shusui, Itachi, and Sasuke) possessed great potential without adding Hashirama's cells to the mix. Itachi again, was a wildcard he couldn't necessarily kill or control fully.

And if he could kill them easily, then there was no risk after all, and they were just pawns in his game to catch the Biju.

"The line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?” - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

We are supposed to accept that this last few chapters pretty much just popped Obito's gasket. His body was crushed. He is half made out of Harashima cells. He's wearing a Zetsu suit. The girl who he had a puppy-love crush on (but who never was actually his girlfriend) just got killed. The person who killed her treated Obito like dirt most of the time but he had a sort-of-almost friendship with him. Oh - and Madara gave him some incomprehensible claptrap speech about this reality being hell and told him bad things happen when you try to help people. This is why we're supposed to believe Obito's change from a decent kid into a mass-murdering ideologue is justified. Derp.

I think you're underestimating how easily it is to turn a kid into a mass-murderer. In the real world, children are recruited into child soldier armies all the time, and people are recruited into terrorist organizations. All it takes is a bit of manipulation and empty platitudes and promises.

The fact that his entire life has been turned upside down and he just witnessed his best friend killing the girl he loved is enough to trigger an ideological shift in a person. For teenagers, it often takes far less.

Perhaps you never personally underwent any sort of traumatic experience and so you can't really understand? Being half-crushed to death and having your best friend kill a girl you love is not "the slightest misfortune."