Europe to destroy traditional family and sexual identity

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
The sperm donor is the father, and the egg donor is the mother.

The child may be raised by 2 people that aren't the child's parents, I've heard them called "guardians".

Normally avoid these threads but ... I'm not sure it matters? This just seems to be semantics.

It's being filled out on a form for passports not in a human biology book as far as I can tells. Who put their genitals inside who, who adopted who,
or which gender they are seems mostly irrelevant for passport application, and the term 'guardians' could refer to grand mothers, or baby sisters in
some situations.

Does a person really need to highlight the fact they were abandoned as a child and adopted by surrogate parents on a passport form? Do we need a whole
extra section that says 'if you're unfortunate enough not to have a parent then fill this part out instead'? I agree with the sentiment shown by
the postered name Masqua.

Far as I'm concerned parent 1 and parent 2 is a step in the right direction ... it doesn't invade my personal life, I don't have to put a female
name under 'mother', I don't have a 'special' section on my form because I'm 'special'. I don't know why anyone at ATS would have a problem
with a government recording less information about them.

Also I really don't think the 'family unit', our understanding of biology, or out instinct to be 'parents' is going to collapse on the basis of
adding some words to a form.

Originally posted by spw184
I want to be known as [childsnamehere]'s Dad not Parent one.

Will your partner be OK with being [childsnamehere]'s Mom? Or would he prefer Parent 2? Or would you like a special place on the form just for
'Unconventional' Families? Or perhaps a special section for Gay People? You know... separate but equal... Like Dad 1 and Dad 2 OR Mom1 and Mom 2?

Parent One and Parent Two makes it generic and applies to all families with 2 parents.

This will destroy so much of our culture if this becomes normal talk.

OMG. This will "destroy our culture"??? You sound just like those who have been persecuting you for years! I don't get it. You're talking like
people are going to use this in normal conversations. DID YOU READ THE OP?

Originally posted by Pinke
I don't know why anyone at ATS would have a problem with a government recording less information about them.

This is what doesn't make sense to me. People are so wrapped up in their prejudices that they cannot see straight or think straight. :shk: Or read
straight...

While i don;t agree with sexual discrimination i do not think that these laws were made for this purpose. Remember these people often use several laws
working together to achieve their purpose. Beware the government or orgonisation that tries to depersonalise people. Hitler used these sort of
tricks. It makes it easier to treat people inappropriately or even kill them as they are not seen as people just numbers. It is also worth considering
that children are much easier to indoctrinate than adults. Those adults whose views are not shared by the state may end up losing their children. by
putting parent one and parent two on documents does it make it easier to change the names on these documents. The Swedish kindergarten using "it" is
very depersonalising as "it" is usually used in referring to a thing not a person

The term mother and father usually implies biological mother and father, or at least male and female. You could not have anything other than mother
or father on a birth certificate, for example. While I have no problem with same sex couples and feel they probably make better parents than some of
their heterosexual peers, I do have a problem with being called "parent 1/2".

I am a father. These proposals (if true) are just pandering to a tiny minority who alienate themselves by being so picky.

You know that in the future there will be no more separation of people and that is one of the roots established early on in our societies. When we can
love all children as our own and raise them according to their hearts and their needs rather than through birth and biological auto selection, the
planet is going to rise and love will blossom for the first time.

The vernacular; Or how they state parenthood, or refer to the family in their documents change nothing. There is almost nothing to change; It is
already here. This isn't just a European thing. I am in my 60s now. As a family we sat down at the dinner table, and ate as a family. We did things
as a family. We were a family. Dad worked, mom did not for the longest time, until we left home and she wanted to.
The family has become a lost art. Some by design, some because it is required financially. Now if both parents don't work the children may not
have a good college education. We are far too busy with our own business to concern ourselves with a Family. Shame, America and the world was much
better off then, than today. Don't believe me? Look around you. Just look at this mess!
We don't bring our children up right now. Haven't for a very long time. It began in my generation, and sadly to say I was part of it. The
family hasn't disintegrated because of the government. It happened because we did this to ourselves. Any society that gives up the family, is sure to
loose it's heritage and its sovereignty. The family is gone: We did this to ourselves, the governments are just giving us what we want. They record
the disintegration of ourselves for our own prosperity.

Originally posted by paraphi
I am a father. These proposals (if true) are just pandering to a tiny minority who alienate themselves by being so picky.

Don't think anyone is eroding your choice to be a father.

The change, as I've read it, is primarily because there are different reproductive choices among other things these days. It keeps the form simple and
accurate and is for a large number of situations. Gay people didn't change your passport forms.

There's nothing picky about wanting at least semi-accurate information on a form. Yourself seems to enjoy it. I'm being a little over the top, but
under race perhaps we should have a multiple choice like this:

Asian [ ]

Since 1 in 5 people on the planet is approximately Chinese, and we wouldn't want to pander to the minority of caucasians on the planet.

Originally posted by Qspeedyrock
The Swedish kindergarten using "it" is very depersonalising as "it" is usually used in referring to a thing not a person

FYI, the word they use does not mean "it". It's a made-up word (hen) used as a gender-neutral pronoun. Han and hon mean him and her. We have gender
neutral pronouns in our language, too: You, them, they.

And here is their reasoning. It may interest you:

Girls develop faster than boys. When they stay in one group, girls, being genetically and spiritually older, always suppress boys. The majority of
teachers are women, so it just so happens that boys are forced to take the female model as behavior as the more correct one, the scientist
said. All manifestations of the male model of behavior are therefore suppressed.

This intrusion of the alien behavioral stereotype affects the psyche of the children very seriously. As a result, boys suffer from gender
self-identification disorder. They develop the feeling of inadequacy and impairment, they become highly suspicious, lose the ability to overcome
difficulties and show less social initiative. Masculinity gives way to aggression, and creation gives way to destruction.

Children with Heterosexual Parents are bullied at school. Your making an assumption out of nothing. Those teenagers who committed suicide over the
past couple off months were bullied for being homosexual. It had nothing to so with their parents what so ever.

A tiny minority of kids with hetero parents will be bullied. Every kid with gay parents will be bullied.

How can you not see that they are guaranteeing their kid will have a miserable school existence?

Sorry to call you out on this but, a lot of teenagers nowadays who are committing suicide, have Heterosexual parents. Have been bullied over their
sexuality So I really advise you read up on this before placing such false statements.

Originally posted by Flyer
A tiny minority of kids with hetero parents will be bullied.

BS. Kids get bullied for being chubby, skinny, short, tall, for wearing glasses, for appearing weak, for wearing the wrong clothes or for being smart
or dumb or rich or poor or for any number of reasons! Some kids are bullies and will use WHATEVER piece of information they have to bully other kids.

Sorry to call you out on this but, a lot of teenagers nowadays who are committing suicide, have Heterosexual parents. Have been bullied over their
sexuality So I really advise you read up on this before placing such false statements.

Shall I name just a few of those teenagers for you?

Its not false, every kid with gay parents will be bullied, a tiny minority with straight parents will be bullied.

It can work and does. If your child is a bully you have done something wrong as a parent or the child is having some issues that aren't being
recognized and dealt with. You teach your children kindness and love, you be a good example for them by not being a bully yourself, you interract with
other humans in a polite way, whether you like them or not. You teach your children not to pick on other kids for being different. If we do this is as
a society we will have less bullies. We do not turn around and say well, don't do anything to get bullied for.

I really like this part,"children of gay couples".
When these "gays" are able to physically produce
a child with NO outside help,then I will consider this
trash.
Remember,it takes a male and a female to produce
a baby,of course there is test tubes,turkey basters...
Bottom line...two men can not make a baby,two women
can't either,you need something from each.

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