Honestly, I've never liked the idea of Caitian females having any sort of mane. The only significant reason MALE lions have them is for display, i.e. to appear bigger to rivals.

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Caitians are not lions.

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I'm well aware of that, as well as the fact they not even remotely REAL. The point was about explaining why a particular and specific Earth feline has a mane where ALL others do not. A female Caitian having a mane makes little sense in this regard based on REALITY. Of course, if you have a theoretical purpose to explain why a female felinoid would need a mane, I'd be happy to read it.

I'm well aware of that, as well as the fact they not even remotely REAL. The point was about explaining why a particular and specific Earth feline has a mane where ALL others do not. A female Caitian having a mane makes little sense in this regard based on REALITY. Of course, if you have a theoretical purpose to explain why a female felinoid would need a mane, I'd be happy to read it.

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Because every single time we've ever seen a female Caitian in a Star Trek TV series or movie, she had one.

Fyi, Cryptic is going to add the ability to downgrade a higher grade duty officer into 3 random lower grade duty officers. For example, you will be able to downgrade a very rare purple duty officer into 3 rare blue duty officers, or a rare blue duty officer into 3 uncommon green duty officers.

A single very rare purple duty officer can be converted into 27 common white duty officers. Once the patch goes live, chances are the price of all green, blue and purple duty officers will go up as people grab cheap higher ranked doffs. In other words, it is now time to stock up on cheap green/blue/purple duty officers in the exchange while their prices are still low.

Cryptic has revealed some first details on the design process of the upcoming Sovereign Refit.
I have waited for this, mostly for the stats and the hope of a Nemesis skin.
The Regent they have designed is in line with all the other 2409 ships, but kinda meh as an evolution of the Sovereign Class ship we all know and love.
Chances are we can kitbash it into something that looks more advanced then the FC look but not as fugly as the pure Regent Class.
If a kitbash can look as cool as what I did with the Akira/Thunderchild hybrid I will be very happy:

I tried the Veteran texture. Decided I don't like it.
It doesn't look realistic as metal hull plating I think, and the blue glowing neon lines don't help.
The finer the detail the better.
Personally I would love to fly an Excelsior or Sovereign with the Fleet Refit skin... but I guess, that is not gonna happen any time soon since both are not available at any tier and i don't think the tier they would be placed at are reachable in any reasonable amount of time anyway....

I'm well aware of that, as well as the fact they not even remotely REAL. The point was about explaining why a particular and specific Earth feline has a mane where ALL others do not. A female Caitian having a mane makes little sense in this regard based on REALITY. Of course, if you have a theoretical purpose to explain why a female felinoid would need a mane, I'd be happy to read it.

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Because every single time we've ever seen a female Caitian in a Star Trek TV series or movie, she had one.

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That's not an explanation, it's an observation. And as far as I recall, Caitian Females have only been shown in the animated series. Trying to link that cat thing from STV to TAS? Doesn't look like M'Ress has three bewbz in your pic, never mind the anatomy of the legs.

In either case, male Caitians also have "hair" options in STO. It's never been shown, i.e. the would-be Caitians in STIV have no "extra" hair.

So what's with the manes for any Caitian? Whether it's TAS or STO, it basically makes no sense.

Ok, here's one… how do you know that on Cait, it's not the female that has to attract a mate rather than the male? Just because it's the male on Earth, doesn't mean the same holds true elsewhere.
Another: How do you know it's all hair? It could be sensory organs interwoven/protected by hair, that need to dangle from the body (eg because of bio electric interference).

I never saw a need to explain the biology of aliens. The fact that they're alien means they have evolved in a very different environment from us. Who's to say what kinds of features that would cause?

Ok, here's one… how do you know that on Cait, it's not the female that has to attract a mate rather than the male? Just because it's the male on Earth, doesn't mean the same holds true elsewhere.

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It's not just about that. It's about display towards rival lions and rival predator groups. That aside, its testosterone based.

Another: How do you know it's all hair? It could be sensory organs interwoven/protected by hair, that need to dangle from the body (eg because of bio electric interference).

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That's an interesting theory, but nothing like that is even hinted at in either the show, or gaming supplements such as FASA's The Voyage Home Sourcebook.

I never saw a need to explain the biology of aliens. The fact that they're alien means they have evolved in a very different environment from us. Who's to say what kinds of features that would cause?

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And that's perfectly fine for you. I personally like reading about and/or viewing aspects of alien anatomy since real explanations go a long way towards immersion. I've had this viewpoint since I first got Wayne Barlow's Guide to Extraterrestrials back in 1980, plus I work in the veterinary field and love biology.

Crazy talk, I know.

Anyhow, there's such a thing as convergent evolution, and since many Star Trek aliens seem to either mimic the Human form and/or other lifeforms which are found on Earth, then THAT'S what I go by with regards to a frame of reference.

Ok, here's one… how do you know that on Cait, it's not the female that has to attract a mate rather than the male? Just because it's the male on Earth, doesn't mean the same holds true elsewhere.

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It's not just about that. It's about display towards rival lions and rival predator groups. That aside, its testosterone based.

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And you don't know what might cause it in alien species. It could well be that the females are the more agressive of the species, and therefore make such a display.

Another: How do you know it's all hair? It could be sensory organs interwoven/protected by hair, that need to dangle from the body (eg because of bio electric interference).

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That's an interesting theory, but nothing like that is even hinted at in either the show, or gaming supplements such as FASA's The Voyage Home Sourcebook.

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Lack of evidence != evidence of lack. Any scientist can tell you that. It might well be that nobody saw the need to come up with an explanation.

I never saw a need to explain the biology of aliens. The fact that they're alien means they have evolved in a very different environment from us. Who's to say what kinds of features that would cause?

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And that's perfectly fine for you. I personally like reading about and/or viewing aspects of alien anatomy since real explanations go a long way towards immersion. I've had this viewpoint since I first got Wayne Barlow's Guide to Extraterrestrials back in 1980, plus I work in the veterinary field and love biology.

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Fine - but I still don't think you can judge what would be viable for alien anatomy (male/female etc) based upon human anatomy. There are just too many variables in an alien environment. How do we know that there's not some natural substance on Cait that makes you more agressive/whatever, but which is mitigated by some male hormone (not necessarily testosterone)?

(ETA: Don't be surprised if I don't respond to any replies - going to be without 'net access for 2 weeks.)

Ok, here's one… how do you know that on Cait, it's not the female that has to attract a mate rather than the male? Just because it's the male on Earth, doesn't mean the same holds true elsewhere.

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It's not just about that. It's about display towards rival lions and rival predator groups. That aside, its testosterone based.

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It's testosterone based in LIONS. On EARTH. Caitians aren't lions, and they're not from Earth.

And don't mention FASA; they mean less than nothing in a canon discussion. They are literally on the same level as citing our own forum posts as sources; whereas CBS has to sign off on major art decisions in STO, such as what Caitians look like.

And you don't know what might cause it in alien species. It could well be that the females are the more agressive of the species, and therefore make such a display.

Lack of evidence != evidence of lack. Any scientist can tell you that. It might well be that nobody saw the need to come up with an explanation.

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Hence my asking for an explanation. Lacking such, and based on what people know (or SHOULD know) about felines on Earth, I'm basing my assumption on convergent evolution. FYI - assumptions and theories don't always have accessible, living entities from which to draw a definite conclusion with regards to appearance and behavior. RE: Dinosaurs - scientists sure have a lot to say about them, don't they?

Fine - but I still don't think you can judge what would be viable for alien anatomy (male/female etc) based upon human anatomy.

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Feline anatomy. And I absolutely CAN judge based on what is known.

There are just too many variables in an alien environment.

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I don't think you can judge what would be viable for alien anatomy (male/female etc) based upon alien environment which you have little or no knowledge of - see what I did there? Don't be a hypocrite.

How do we know that there's not some natural substance on Cait that makes you more agressive/whatever, but which is mitigated by some male hormone (not necessarily testosterone)?

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We don't. It has to be based on what we know of convergent evolution until someone gives an explanation which makes sense. That's what my theory is based on. Your theory seems to be "we don't know because we haven't experienced it 1st hand, so NO ONE can or should speculate."

Ok, here's one… how do you know that on Cait, it's not the female that has to attract a mate rather than the male? Just because it's the male on Earth, doesn't mean the same holds true elsewhere.

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It's not just about that. It's about display towards rival lions and rival predator groups. That aside, its testosterone based.

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It's testosterone based in LIONS. On EARTH. Caitians aren't lions, and they're not from Earth.

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Didn't we already go over this? I never said they WERE lions. I'm basing my gripe on what we do know of felines and convergent evolution, which in Star Trek, seems to be a big thing with regards to similarities between species.

And don't mention FASA; they mean less than nothing in a canon discussion. They are literally on the same level as citing our own forum posts as sources; whereas CBS has to sign off on major art decisions in STO, such as what Caitians look like.

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I choose Option B: Don't tell me what I can or cannot do. I'll mention whatever I want in a discussion about "opinions" regarding fake aliens in a fake reality. The reason I mentioned the FASA book is because that is at least some form of written documentation on a species which otherwise has very little written about it, canon or otherwise, and in metioning TVH Sourcebook, was citing it in contrast to the theory the other guy offered which was based on nothing substantial that can be found in any sort of Trek lore (Re: "sensory organs interwoven/protected by hair, that need to dangle from the body.") Not once did I claim anything was canon, but go ahead and quote me where I did, and I'll be happy to address it.

Now, I like the concept of Caitians, but I don't think the idea of Female Caitians having a mane makes any sense, nor have I ever. It's a legitimate criticism since there are no explanations for it. FYI - It's actually OK to be critical of aspects of something you like and still be a fan. Being a fan does not mean you HAVE TO like and accept everything without question.

Didn't we already go over this? I never said they WERE lions. I'm basing my gripe on what we do know of felines and convergent evolution, which in Star Trek, seems to be a big thing with regards to similarities between species.

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This is what's tripping you up; they aren't felines. Your housecat has more in common genetically with your houseferns than with them.

And then of course there is the real world explanation that anything with boobs (another matter of debate regarding cats (they should have 6!) looks more attractive to our human eyes if they have a long wavy hair instead of "alien" short fur.

And then of course there is the real world explanation that anything with boobs (another matter of debate regarding cats (they should have 6!) looks more attractive to our human eyes if they have a long wavy hair instead of "alien" short fur.