Brian did his bit volunteering on stuff back in the late 90s, if that helps. Nice guy.

Suppose I'll get around to reading his book someday, though I declined his request for comments when he was writing it, with concerns perhaps similar to Spec's. Mostly I didn't want to be tempted to vouch for facts I couldn't confirm first-hand. I don't think it's meant to be a primer, more a pop/social history, though I'm sure he'd be happy for you to spend money on it for whatever reason. Some people like books, and I figure the Wired front page article back in 1996, and subsequent coffee table book, had already blown the doors open wrt media blather.

better than having pretense, and thinking i have a better understanding than others after reading a book.

so careful yourself genius - because without even reading it i know a fuckload of history that could never be published. and thanks to you now, i have a better appreciation for that value, that i can hold such knowledge over your head.

better than having pretense, and thinking i have a better understanding than others after reading a book.so careful yourself genius - because without even reading it i know a fuckload of history that could never be published. and thanks to you now, i have a better appreciation for that value, that i can hold such knowledge over your head.

Specta: Your ability to make wild-ass and unfounded assumptions [in this thread, at least] is amazing. Can a person not read a book, enjoy it, and necessarily NOT have a "pretension" of thinking one has a better understanding than others? And, good golly, who really gives a flip IF someone walks the Earth thinking they have a better understanding of a subject because they have read a book?

Your last sentence, really, is either deliberately cryptic or just drunk typing. So you know more about BM than me. Who cares? I just enjoyed reading Brian's book. It's well written and happens to be on a subject I enjoy. I'm not as good a Burner as you because of it. I will live.

Hm, I just found some of my 1993 to current, burner friends, they brought their pets (3 dogs) to BM in 1993 and for several years after that.
TV sets were (destroyed) there too, lmfao. Man do they have baggage. LOL

They're returning again 2011, 2012....

I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!

Fancy wrote:I've never been (but im going this year damnit!). Enjoyed the book, though i'm wondering if any significant changes have occurred since 2003, the most recent burn he discusses.

The significant changes that I saw, occured between 1999 and 2001. But they really werent that significant....just more people and more cops. I must say, 2010 was an amazing year!...almost as good as 2001! Alot of newbs and very friendly.

Simon of the Playa wrote:in all seriousness, i can see both sides and it is a conundrum until you realize that EVERYTHING MUST EVOLVE, OR DIE.

I guess what gets me is that various old burners have "outgrown" the event, but are still emotionally involved with it. It's sad really. On the other hand, it's scary. You begin to see how the surrealists got into trials of members, then throwing them out as not being ideologically pure as they should be.

And that gets to Moscow, but I'm not going there.

And so people who accuse us of wasting our time and not seeking out new ways of doing are, spend their energy telling us this instead of seeking out these new ways.

And they use the word "sheeple" far too often. It's like they expect us to follow them as their sheeple.

Sad, sad, sad.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

theCryptofishist wrote:I guess what gets me is that various old burners have "outgrown" the event, but are still emotionally involved with it. It's sad really.

nah, your new environment is easy to cope with, just like we deal with the real world where our subcultures take root and thrive. there's quite a few groups now who are not as open, because it successfully limits your influences.

but dont fret little fishy. your radically open environments will still attract plenty of fuckups who cant relate to the world. they always find that your open environment is just the place to put up with them - so we'd rather they hang in your places instead.

nah, your new environment is easy to cope with, just like we deal with the real world where our subcultures take root and thrive. there's quite a few groups now who are not as open, because it successfully limits your influences.

but dont fret little fishy. your radically open environments will still attract plenty of fuckups who cant relate to the world. they always find that your open environment is just the place to put up with them - so we'd rather they hang in your places instead.

no....wrong answer.....it was the burnal equinox and you were supposed to reference that as a long time insider.

moonrise wrote:... they brought their pets (3 dogs) to BM in 1993 and for several years after that. TV sets were (destroyed) there too, lmfao. Man do they have baggage. LOL

lol indeed: with a topic about a book, people think everything's supposed to be taken literally

I won't tangle with you spec, but truly, the first thing my "93 BURNER friends told me when I asked what'd ya do back then? was about their "DOGS, TV sets and the baggage/gear" haha.
At least you laughed, lol (I've never seen the book, lol)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Simon how's the space ship coming along? need anything?

I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!

Oh crud, Simon. What's the point of my plonking spect's condescending crapola, if you don't leave his name in when you quote him? I saw more than I wanted to of his utterly useless acidic nostalgia because he wasn't blocked in your post.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

This old school vs new comers issue was discussed at length at the camp I was in last year. Eventually, what? Old School Burners will pass on, and then what?
Just thier kids and close friends burn?
Seems lame to me and to the 2nd and 3rd generation burners I camped with.

I must add; there are countless incredible old school/veteran burners on eplaya and on-playa and they don't resent new blood.
(thanks! you know who you are)

Yes, we know, BM isn't a giant rave, that was discussed at camp and has been discussed on eplaya also.
I know it's a concern that BM doesn't become an international rave circuit party or diluted by clueless new blood.
The bigger sound camps sure are impressive though, it was fun to journey out and enjoy those anchors.

We are evolving, not de-volving. Why don't you try to mesh with us? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Simon, you're kicking my arse, 7 days no cigs! Go Go Go!
I'm close behind you! (only a few a day, yay)There's no way we can smoke AND wear our space helmets!
Fuck our day! Epic is the new awesome! hehehe

I'm the MAN in a truck, burner who is stuck, you're in luck! I'll whip out my BIG tow chain and not charge you, not even one lousy buck!

moonrise wrote:Seems lame to me and to the 2nd and 3rd generation burners I camped with.

btw i really respect that. ive started getting back into hanging out with kids and seeing what they are into, but there's that part of... i dunno, subculture elitism? like the cool kids in high school? being older, i sometimes catch it from them and makes me think how i was.

most kids are still great and wont push an attitude, but i still think thats a valid concern and threat to the openess thats a big and important part of bman. so its not like thats something i support, i know better. i think that would be socially caustic if their numbers grew too big.

but maybe that just me... besides, i still get to enjoy all the new skate/street bmx parks because I HELPED PAY FOR THAT NOW GODAMNIT! didnt have that shit when i was young!