Deadly Home Invasion in Prichard, AL. (Hoods announce as "ATF" then kill homeowner)

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this is horrible... this is gunna cause so many problems if this does become the norm for these criminals... take the appearance of legal government agency's... come kicking down your door... what if they are really the police... what if there not... we are ****** one way or the other... either we respond with our rights for self protection and kill the bad guys or police and die ourselves cause we shot at a officer... or wait till its to late to find out it aint the police and die anyways... its a scary thought... this is why there shouldnt be no knock police warrents...

"Loyalty to the country always. Loyalty to the government when it deserves it."
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." (Winston Churchill).

One thing that I see that is happening is that the Criminals have this all fiquared out, But on the other side of it don't you think that the LawEnforcement has the same feeling, on this, They are in the same position, darn if they do and darn if they don't. I know alot of LawEnforcement people from Local to Feds and they do have the same feeling when they are told to go get someone, they put their life in danger as much as the home owner or business owner. And when they make that move on a suspects house, they are thinking whats behind the door and who is going to get the first shot, If they call first doesn't that defeat the whole purpose of what they are doing. And when they make the final mistake and find out that their intel was wrong they have to live with that just as you would if you shot them comming thru the door. I am a old Nam Vet and who has work in lawenforcement also and have my share of shootings, I am torn from yes shoot first if someone is breaking down my door to placing my shot where they won't get backup or allowing them entry and finding out who is right or wrong, I take the stance of shoot first and then let god sort them out. My Home is my castle, envade my home and die like the rest. No simple answer on this one at all. LB

bad guys playing cop

This thing is a natural follow on to the practice of late where LEO have to go and play Special Ops guys... no-knock warrants, roll the SWAT team, armed to the teeth, bust down the doors attempting total surprise.... and all too often find they are at the wrong house, or their infomation is wrong.

Courts need to be VERY cautious in issuing such warrants, and hear more than the one set of information. Reminds me of a case in Mdeford, Oregon, last year where LEO got bogus, exaggerated information about a "disgruntled employee" from a troublesome supervisor, rolled the SWAT guys, dawn raid on the guy's house... took him in for psych evaluation ("protective custody" excuse)... turned out the guy was normal. Overkill?

But, when such raids are normal, bad guys can mimic the whole style and then what? We have dead guys and criminals on the loose. Used to be, when a cop came round to serve an arrest or search warrant, they knocked, identified themselves fully, demanded entrance under the warrant..... sure, some creeps in the back room would make a dash for the bathroom to flush the weed..... so what? They lost that stash, are on notice they are discovered, no one dies for a dime bag of junk.....

The more the cops play heavy duty, the more distrustful citizens will get. It is compounded in that LEO almost NEVER face any consequences for their excessive usage of force. Like the cop who shot a drunk up north of Seattle a couple years back... the guy was no threat, merely was too drunk to comply with orders. The cop got bent outta shape, and fired seven shots, killing him. and got off. Far too often, cops come onto a situation guns drawn..... as last summer whan a friend of mine was travelling with her children in Central California. Stopping to nurse her infant, her older daughters got out to run around a bit... playing with a purple nerf bat. Some idiot called 911 "some kids beating each other up". Imagine their concern when two CHP pull up behind the car and get out, both guns drawn and aimed AT THEM...... what if they'd been the "nervous" type, and "imagined" some "wrong move"? My friend and/or her children might be dead. Why? Overactive cops.

They forget THEY are OUR servatns, they've got that wrong way round. They think it is WE who must comply with THEIR demands.... NOW, and in the precise way they demand. Like the guy puilled over on his Harley, black leathers and all, cop on his right, gun drawn...... the guy makes some move to park the bike, the cop's twitchy finger pulls the trigger.... hits the guy in the neck. Paraplegic. For what? A nervous cop. Of course, no consequences to the cop. But the guy on the bike? Oh my.

Set a pattern that makes housebreaking under force seem "normal", and guess what? Unscrupulous types will mimic the MO but use ot for wrong reasons. Time to reel back in LEO.

The operative word is "Kicked". A family member or friend is not going to Kick down/open a door. In Kentucky if someone is Kicking on your door attempting to gain entrance you acn shoot them throu the door after proper warning. If you have a question about the identity of someone at your door, call 911.

I read the replies to this article and am glad that I am no longer in law enforcement. With so much fear factor out there the officer making a 'friendly' visit might just get shot.
Sounds like many of us need to have a refresher on the care and use of our weapons.
You wanted a response from me...!!!!

You're right, this is a good time to be OUT of law enforcement. Cops are viewed by most of the public as bad guys, because their politician masters won't let them be simply Peace Officers any more. Too many are tasked with the primary mission of Revenue Collection.

Maybe it's time to stop all of this dresed-in-black Ninja Storm Trooper BS and behave like Peace Officers.

As to the "ATF" home invasion, it's horrible but not complicated. If armed men dressed in black storm your house, shouting "ATF!" they are either ATF or freelance criminals (or possibly agents of Black Bag type who will never identify themselves).

Most likely you are as dead as most of the unfortunates at Mount Carmel. Die Well.

If they are ATF, they want to terrorize and kill. Your only chance of survival is to kill them first.

If they are freelance criminals, they want to terrorize and kill. Your only chance of survival is to kill them first.

If they are "Black Bag" operatives, they want to kill you. Your only chance of survival is to kill them first.

Do you see a similarity in the logical response, regardless of who they are?

I am old fashioned. When I see a man in creased trousers (often with a stripe), duty belt, pressed shirt, badge, nameplate, and a clean face clearly visible, I believe him to be a Police Officer.

When I see a a black-armored man, heavily armed, likely his face hidden by greasepaint and goggles or a mask, I believe him to be a terrorist. It makes little difference whether he's sponsored by a foreign power or my own government, the appropriate response to terrorism is always the same.

As I said, maybe it's time to stop the black-armored home invasion crap and get back to being Peace Officers.

When the citizenry begins to fight back, the cop will be the visible target. His corrupt and evil politician masters deserve to be the targets, but it is the cop who is out here, visible, often robbing people of the what they need to feed their families, under the guise of "traffic safety" or "drug enforcement."

There is little time left to reverse the trend, to stop the militarization of our Police. Frankly, I see a dark and terrible future.

Hmmm..... this thread has gotten me thinking. I'd better go put some of the Carl Gustav tungsten core AP into the little AR. The "his and hers" shotguns we keep for bear and two legged troublemakers might not be enough.

“The police of a State should never be stronger or better armed than the citizenry. An armed citizenry, willing to fight is the foundation of civil freedom.” Heinlein

I work closely with PD & still am of the opinion that if you come crashing through my door you will be shot on sight.
Too many times in our area no knock warrants have been used that were based on bad intel, & people & their pets have been injured or killed. I find this type of warrant to be overly used / abused with bad results. While I understand that the chances are pretty good that a shoot first policy with a legitimate PD raid will probably cost me my life, I would rather take that chance than be that poor slob that got killed after being fooled by a bunch of slick criminals.I also believe that as this type of activity increases, PD will be more careful in instituting these raids. But yes, screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.