Im new to this fourm but have a question on a single barrel shottie i have just brought.

It is fairly old , and in very worn condition , the barrel is about stuffed , however i cant ID it! It has the markings of the manufacture on it , but it is so worn it is hard to make out!

It apears that it says ******* and Co ltd ( cant make this bit out ) on the barrel , along with 12-70 indicating the gauge etc of the gun. it also says Made in ****** and i cant make that out either! Ive attached a coupple of picks tht im hoping someone will be able to id it for me , and if its worth anything.

I suspect its a hunk of junk , and not worth a penny but before i attack it i would like to knw!

There may be other ways but the only way I could post pics on this site is to use photobucket as a host. Download your pics to photobucket. Then hold the cursor over the image you want and a drop down menu will appear. Click on the IMG prompt and it will say copied. Then paste in your post here.

Hi all Again i have added 2x photos to the "gallary" under the Misc. If anyone could have a lookie and purhaps shed a bit more light that would be great! The photos are not the best but gives u a little idea! Cheers

What you've got is an old European black powder cartridge military rifle civilianised into a shotgun, probably in Belgium, probably around the end of the 19th century. A lot of these things were made; I believe the idea was to produce cheap shotguns for sale in Africa.

From what I can make out from the photo, the original rifle was a French Gras, or something very similar, like a Chassepot (originally a needle-fire; obsolete ammunition system from the era of the Franco-Prussian war)

Typically, the conversion involved brazing a chunk onto the end of the bolt, replacing the bolt handle, fitting a new barrel and a new stock. Why anyone would bother, I don't know, but they did.

Unless there's a collectors' market for these things where you live, I'd have thought its main value is as a source of spares for renovating/repairing not-messed-around-with Gras rifles. I used the stock off a similar piece to replace the stock of a Gras that had been eaten away into dust by woodworm; the rifle action dropped in without any need for fitting.

Thanks for your help i have done a bit of reasearch on the net and it appears that you maybe correct in saying that. The barrel is pretty stuffed rusty etc

Do you think that this originally started out as a rifle , and then was hacked into a 12ga shotgun for civilan use?

Is it worth anything to a collecter? it is still in "fireable" order , but am a little hesatant to pull the trigger on a live round? Also was this a good gun in its time? the action is suprisinly very tight with the bolt closed , it is of corse single shot

A number of bolt action military rifle to shotgun "conversions" required the removal of the bolt locking lugs in order to accommodate the larger 12 gauge barrel leaving the bolt handle as the sole locking device. Before test firing the gun, assure that all premium payments on your life insurance are up to date.

A number of bolt action military rifle to shotgun "conversions" required the removal of the bolt locking lugs in order to accommodate the larger 12 gauge barrel leaving the bolt handle as the sole locking device. Before test firing the gun, assure that all premium payments on your life insurance are up to date.

The Gras, Chassepot, Mauser M71, Kropatchek, Beaumont and other military rifles of that era didn't have bolt locking lugs. The lug at the base of the bolt handle was the only locking point. For black powder cartridge pressures, that was all that was needed.

Since this gun bears a 12 bore proof mark, it must at some stage have undergone proof testing and survived, which suggests that (in good condition) the bolt-handle-lug lockup is inherently strong enough to handle 12ga pressures. Which is no surprise; Webley 410 bolt-actions made well into the smokeless powder era didn't have locking lugs either. You're talking 8-10,000 psi for a typical 12ga, as opposed to 45-50,000 psi or thereabouts for smokeless-era military bolt-actions.

I'd be more concerned about headspace. On the Chassepot conversions I've seen, the bolt head modification was pretty agricultural; also, bolt heads on ancient and neglected guns are often corroded and pitted.

The gun may well be fireable, but the best way to find out would involve some form of bench to clamp it down on, at least forty feet of string, and if at all possible a big fat tree to hide behind when the gun goes off.