but i think he was like the kid who lost the babyfat one summer and came back handsome - because he never carried himself arrogant like "mr. goodlooking all his life" - and i think that's a key part of his sensitive personality

when you look at this school picture 'body language-wise', it's like he's an outcast - look how the boys in the back have their little clique and the girls seem like they don't know he's alive . . . i read that the people in this photo are trying to get him to take a new picture with all the same people . . . . i bet you it never happens !

but i think he was like the kid who lost the babyfat one summer and came back handsome - because he never carried himself arrogant like "mr. goodlooking all his life" - and i think that's a key part of his sensitive personality

I surrender on the gangly thing. But Paul sensitive? Most descriptions I've read of him describe him as rather, cold and detached. He's always seemed to me to be the kind of person that keeps his real self locked away. Not saying his a cyborg, just that he doesn't seem anymore sensitive than your average bear.I saw an interview with the director. She spoke about how they portray John's relationship with his mum (ie borderline incestious).She gave a John Lennon quote (I don't know it and I paraphrase here) "she (Julia) brushed against me and I knew then that I could have her."The director said whether this was true or another Lennonism (Beatlespeak for bullsh*t) the fact is Lennon felt comfortable playing with the idea so so did they.

« Last Edit: October 30, 2009, 09:37:07 AM by Kevin »

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I surrender on the gangly thing. But Paul sensitive? Most descriptions I've read of him describe him as rather, cold and detached. He's always seemed to me to be the kind of person that keeps his real self locked away. Not saying his a cyborg, just that he doesn't seem anymore sensitive than your average bear.I saw an interview with the director. She spoke about how they portray John's relationship with his mum (ie borderline incestious).She gave a John Lennon quote (I don't know it and I paraphrase here) "she (Julia) brushed against me and I knew then that I could have her."The director said whether this was true or another Lennonism (Beatlespeak for bullsh*t) the fact is Lennon felt comfortable playing with the idea so so did they.

I think it's definitely fair to portray the relationship like that. The Lennonites will be up in arms of course, but he said it, so I think that makes him fair game.

I surrender on the gangly thing. But Paul sensitive? Most descriptions I've read of him describe him as rather, cold and detached. He's always seemed to me to be the kind of person that keeps his real self locked away. Not saying his a cyborg, just that he doesn't seem anymore sensitive than your average bear.

Keeping his real self locked away, doesn't mean someone is not sensitive, it could just be a defense mechanism. People who are close to him described him as sensitive. I think most artists are sensitive, anyway. It goes with the territory.

Keeping his real self locked away, doesn't mean someone is not sensitive, it could just be a defense mechanism. People who are close to him described him as sensitive. I think most artists are sensitive, anyway. It goes with the territory.

Most..maybe not all. This professional (admittedly not overly successful) c1910 Viennese artist appeared to lack a little warmth. By all accounts Picasso was a pr*ck and that dude from Momass and Papas was sleeping with his daughter. I can never get over the fact that Paul proposed to Heather barely three years after the death of the "love of his life."My understanding of McCartneys personality come from quotes too, but damned if I can remember who from. Mostly I think from people who knew him professionaly, not family (who may know him better.) Mind you, they're hardly unbiased witnesses.

Most..maybe not all. This professional (admittedly not overly successful) c1910 Viennese artist appeared to lack a little warmth. By all accounts Picasso was a pr*ck and that dude from Momass and Papas was sleeping with his daughter. I can never get over the fact that Paul proposed to Heather barely three years after the death of the "love of his life."My understanding of McCartneys personality come from quotes too, but damned if I can remember who from. Mostly I think from people who knew him professionaly, not family (who may know him better.) Mind you, they're hardly unbiased witnesses.

Being a prick doesn't preclude being sensitive, either.

As for Paul marrying Heather, so fast (is 3 years that fast, btw?), it's something rather common for men who were in long term successful marriages. If anything, it shows how lonely he felt. It's not like he started fooling around with a different woman every week. I think he was subconsciously trying to replace Linda, that's why he chose a woman who was an activist and not some starlet. He obviously screwed up because, I think, he wasn't ready for a relationship and he didn't see Heather for who she is.

As for Paul marrying Heather, so fast (is 3 years that fast, btw?), it's something rather common for men who were in long term successful marriages. If anything, it shows how lonely he felt. It's not like he started fooling around with a different woman every week. I think he was subconsciously trying to replace Linda, that's why he chose a woman who was an activist and not some starlet. He obviously screwed up because, I think, he wasn't ready for a relationship and he didn't see Heather for who she is.

ummmmmmm....go to your room! I think (guess) the real answer is neither of us really know the inner workings of Paul's mind. You see him as lonely, I see him as cold. Not that this is the case here, but so many assume Paul a romantic because he writes love songs. But we know Paul was the consumate songwriter who could put his hand to almost anything.I just baulk (sp) a bit when people make assumptions about their characters without much (that I can see) to back it up. I just can't see anything that makes him seem anymore sensitive than most. ( I take it we're talking about sensitive as in loving or caring, not easily slighted. Obviously Lennon would win that one.)If I can join The Sweeping Generalisation Club I don't thinking many northern men of his generation were known as being especially sensitive. Liverpool doesn't breed them like that. Keep it in they do. My dad was a scouser and he never said he loved me. Not once! Bastard. Would it have hurt? Oh, but no, he just drank and banged on about football. Told me to be a man. Now I'm 51, single, with a chronic substance abuse problem. F*cking northerners. They can all go to hell.

Actually it was 4 years; Linda died in Apr 98 and he married Heather Mills in Jun 2002. But either way, I can't believe someone would think that was disrespectful of Linda's memory! Anyway, Paul is apparently the kind of guy, and there are many of them, that hates to be alone. Too bad Heather turned out to be crazy and evil but she fooled a lot of people besides him.

When Paul met John his mother had died less than a year before. It of course had a huge effect on him. Besides burying himself in his guitar-playing, he became withdrawn. John's reaction when his mother died was different; we all have our ways of dealing with tragedy.

A few articles that came out recently from schoolmates say that Paul was always very popular with the girls and he was considered to be very good-looking. He was pretty out-going, before his mother died, the star of the school plays, entertaining his classmates, etc. He might not have had a "posse" like John did but he had some close friends, including Ivan Vaughan and of course George Harrison. He's always had the reputation, even back then, of being outwardly friendly, but only letting a few people actually get close to him.

Not that I expect the movie to get those kind of details right. It's a movie about John, after all. I just thought I'd let you guys know what Paul was like according to the stuff I've read. I do hope that someday somebody makes a movie about the relationship between John and Paul. I mean, they were the most important musical partnership of our time. You'd think somebody would find that interesting!

nice post^Paul and John's relationship is indeed interesting, probably because it's a little wierd. John doesn't seem to have bonded with Paul the way he did with Stuart or Yoko. I'm standing by my thoughts that maybe Paul doesn't bond strongly with anyone, so he's harder to judge. But we know that John can become besotted with both male friends and ladies, and he doesn't seem to with Paul.Paul says in Hunter Davis's book that he now realises his relationship with John was like that of army buddies (ie men thrown together by circumstance whose friendship survives only as long as that circumstance lasts.)I can't think of anything that indicates that Paul was any closer to John than he was to George and Ringo or even Denny Laine.

Actually it was 4 years; Linda died in Apr 98 and he married Heather Mills in Jun 2002. But either way, I can't believe someone would think that was disrespectful of Linda's memory! Anyway, Paul is apparently the kind of guy, and there are many of them, that hates to be alone. Too bad Heather turned out to be crazy and evil but she fooled a lot of people besides him.

Gidday.Now we have three suppositions based on this:mine - he's coldcassNJ - it's common for men to remarry quickly after being in longterm successful marriagesyours - he's the kind of guy who doesn't like being on his own.There's a Hitchcock movie in this somewhere.

But I'll hark back to my original point. Nothing indicates that Paul was especially sensitive. He might be. But we don't know.

Kevin, I don't know how many books you've read about The Beatles. I've been reading quite a few, and articles, interviews, etc. I'm doing it for a project that I'm working on. Anyway, there is tons of evidence that their relationship was very close. I'm going by primary sources (the Beatles themselves, close friends and associates, etc.) Starting when they first met each other, and continuing until the breakup. After the breakup, there's lots of conflicting information, so I won't even go into that here. But before that, like I said, there are many, many quotes that I could use to back up what I'm saying. Quotes from Cynthia, Julia Baird (John's step-sister), Tony Bramwell, George Martin, and Geoff Emerick, just to name a few. That's not even mentioning what John and Paul themselves have said. Of course a lot of people discount anything Paul says automatically. And John contradicted himself constantly, so we can only guess what he really thought about anything. But they have both described their relationship as being very close. Even Yoko, who seemed determined to keep John away from people who might compete with her for John's time and attention, has admitted that John loved Paul very much.

That quote you mentioned about "army buddies" needs to be seen in its context. During those years that John was frequently flogging him in the press, Paul at times, very understandably, began to question the relationship himself, thinking that maybe John had never really cared much for him. After John died, Yoko and May Pang reassured him that John really had loved him. We can only guess why John said some of the things he said. I bet he didn't even know himself. Their friendship definitely had its problems, but that doesn't mean they weren't close, at least at one time.

Paul says in Hunter Davis's book that he now realises his relationship with John was like that of army buddies (ie men thrown together by circumstance whose friendship survives only as long as that circumstance lasts.)I can't think of anything that indicates that Paul was any closer to John than he was to George and Ringo or even Denny Laine.

Paul said that to Hunter Davies while he was having a minor mental breakdown over the phone because Yoko said he had hurt John more than any other person. It was wrong of Davies to put that conversation in his book, it was a betrayal of Paul's trust, but I think it illustrates how sensitive Paul is, not the opposite. John was obviously very important to him and because of the various interviews John gave slamming him in the 70s, he felt very insecure about their relationship.

I think John and Paul were close, various Quarrymen have said that the moment they met they became inseparable. It's also telling that Paul seemed jealous when John formed strong relationships with other people, like Stuart for example.

I don't know, to me it seems kind of natural that they would be close. Their partnership caused them to spent a lot of time together. I think it's telling that John referred to him as his best friend during an interview in 71-72 when their relationship was at its lowest point.

Good point, eroz! Paul was very hurt by stuff that John said about him; and the books that minimize his role in The Beatles, as well as minimize the friendship between John and him, hurt him too. Paul teared up in a video on youtube where he's playing "Beautiful Boy" and telling the DJ that it's his favorite song of John's. Before you call them crocodile tears, remember that Paul is a notoriously bad actor. John hid his sensitivity by being sarcastic and at times vicious. Paul hides his by guarding his feelings, playing it "close to the vest" as someone said.

Kevin, I don't know how many books you've read about The Beatles. I've been reading quite a few, and articles, interviews, etc. I'm doing it for a project that I'm working on. Anyway, there is tons of evidence that their relationship was very close. I'm going by primary sources (the Beatles themselves, close friends and associates, etc.)

I bow to your superior knowledge. I admit my Beatle reading is a tad out of date.