I am watching the BBC program scud linked in the last post. Britain should be very, very proud of its scientific and engineering breakthroughs in the history of electricity.

From the outside the plant looks huge, and with a very tall, wide smokestack. No doubt a plant of that size could throw off some serious heat with that coal, that then could turn to electricity (at about 33% efficiency, I believe for coal plants).

Where I started getting skeptical is when they went into the plant. First off the main turbine only occupies a part of the interior. And then they have a bunch of smaller turbines from the past, with little displays and sign boards around them, like in a museum. Ok so I am with them, the modern turbine which is maybe 20 times larger than the antique turbines is just a scaled up version. Then they say this whole plant(which includes other buildings & turbines) provides power for the equivalent of 6 million British homes night and day.

I am just shaking my head at the end of this documentary. Their new plan is to cut down trees and burn them in the plant, as 'biomass'. They are converting one of the boilers over to burn trees, and for some reason had half a forest of trees cut down laying by the side of the road for the interview.

The fact that the Flatearthers are all over this subject is a huge red flag I agree, but it could also be a sign that it's worth looking into. A few years after 9/11 I watched a documentary you may have heard of called Loose Change. That effectively vaccinated me against the 9/11 conspiracy theories for more than a decade. A crucial part of propaganda is to present the real evidence first in a bad way and get people to make up their mind on false premises and they will refrain from looking into it any more.

Simon and all the other fine researchers here at CF have managed to reveal the greatest hoaxes of our time. I'm not exaggerating when I say I think this is the most important contribution to man kind I've seen. This shit needs to get out however painful it may be. For the sake of all of us. And it will eventually.

But what if there were lots of videos back in 2011 with Flatearthers showing images of space shuttle launches pointing at problems with them and screaming "Fake!"? That might have made you guys go look at other things instead.

I'm not an engineer and know very little about electricity. Six years ago I knew nothing about medicine, but the fact that I got healthier by doing the exact opposite of what conventional medicine said, made me look into it. And now I'm convinced that much of what are established truths in that field are in fact lies.

The theory about the pyramids having something to do with atmospheric electricity makes sense. The official tomb story makes no sense. If the Pharaos had this secret where they could harness electricity and do Tesla like shows where they made things glow by touching them, they would certainly be perceived as gods by ancient people.

Every now and then a company or inventor pops up claiming they have some kind of free energy device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8maOmaJsF8What if these are psyops by the Nutwork? By having this presented and then letting us see it goes nowhere (the company goes bankrupt or the inventor is exposed as a fraud) they are vaccinating people like us from looking into it. Just like with Loose Change and 9/11.

I was taking off a heavy winter sweater last night (it's "baltic" here at the moment) when the room was lit by a blue static spark. I of course laughed. I'm not the first person to notice this I'm sure!

This just in:Bill Gates and Elon Musk both have their hands full, but if Gates were to have the opportunity to launch a business with Musk, the co-founder of Microsoft says he would have the two of them take on energy alternatives."We need clean, reliable cheap energy — which we don't have," Gates says in a reddit Ask Me Anything session from Monday.http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/01/heres-th ... -musk.html

Our favorite hoxaters, talking about teaming up in the quest for clean, reliable cheap energy... Man I'm tempted to go into the woods right now, find the highest tree near a stream of water get a cable up there and see what kind of current I get between that and the ground.

Man I'm tempted to go into the woods right now, find the highest tree near a stream of water get a cable up there and see what kind of current I get between that and the ground.

Don't forget your tin-foil hat!! Seriously!

Ah, now I get it. That is how people like us go. We uncover the grand hoaxes and we get onto this one. Then we are found in the woods electrocuted and with a tinfoil hat on our head... Curiosity killed the conspiracy theorist.

So I’ve been looking a little further into ‘Drax’ the UK’s largest power station.. http://www.drax.com

The Martian version courtesy the BBC...

The Earthly other version..

It would seem that BBC woman is quite a bit further down ‘the turbine hall’ than the ‘photograph’ judging by the rather differing roof construction.

I noted that Drax accommodate ‘guided tours’ including the turbine hall. Though not possible to book through their own web site I have mailed them wishing to partake as I’d dearly love to personally witness all that “fine coating of coal dust” and “violent noise” that BBC women speaks of @ 6.40 in... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zszIPMzrWqw

...so, I had no intention to jump-in concerning this topic - leaving it to you fellows to sort it out; yet, unfortunately, the word "coal dust" appeared, and this (particularly carbon black) is something with which I have first hand knowledge. Let's consult The Wikipedia:

Coal Dust: The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set the legal limit (Permissible exposure limit) for coal dust exposure in the workplace as 2.4 mg/m3 (5% SiO2) over an 8-hour workday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal_dust

Carbon Black: The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has set the legal limit (Permissible exposure limit) for carbon black exposure in the workplace as 3.5 mg/m3 over an 8-hour workday. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_black

...and so, with Carbon Black being the lesser of two evils, and assuming that the manufacturer's that I worked for as a very young man held to these standards, I will tell you that the allowed amount of Carbon Black would comfortably coat all of these machines within a matter of hours (even if cleaned, literally for weeks beforehand, for the film) - and no machinery would bear the nice yellow, red, and blue colors that we see here, unless the operators of this facility are working far under the allowed limit, and, of course, who (in the name of profit) does that... (and these are my personal observations from my personal experience concerning this topic.)

patrix » March 2nd, 2017, 12:22 am wrote:The theory about the pyramids having something to do with atmospheric electricity makes sense. The official tomb story makes no sense. If the Pharaos had this secret where they could harness electricity and do Tesla like shows where they made things glow by touching them, they would certainly be perceived as gods by ancient people.

Every now and then a company or inventor pops up claiming they have some kind of free energy device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8maOmaJsF8What if these are psyops by the Nutwork? By having this presented and then letting us see it goes nowhere (the company goes bankrupt or the inventor is exposed as a fraud) they are vaccinating people like us from looking into it. Just like with Loose Change and 9/11.

Keep digging I say

That would be an effective piece on the playing field of hiding knowledge. Ideally you would want many, many different 'free energy' gurus all pushing their different theories and non-working generators. And maybe cover one in a more mainstream media every once in awhile, like you said and get hopes up, only to have it not go anywhere.

Of course the whole idea of 'free energy' is sort of silly. Like for the sake of argument, say the atmosphere power did work on a viable commercial scale. The operator would still need to build and maintain those towers, connect them through electric lines, and have all sorts of electric equipment like substations and transformers between the towers and the customers. Then a whole administration of people, like for customer service.

patrix » March 2nd, 2017, 12:22 am wrote:The theory about the pyramids having something to do with atmospheric electricity makes sense. The official tomb story makes no sense. If the Pharaos had this secret where they could harness electricity and do Tesla like shows where they made things glow by touching them, they would certainly be perceived as gods by ancient people.

Every now and then a company or inventor pops up claiming they have some kind of free energy device https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I8maOmaJsF8What if these are psyops by the Nutwork? By having this presented and then letting us see it goes nowhere (the company goes bankrupt or the inventor is exposed as a fraud) they are vaccinating people like us from looking into it. Just like with Loose Change and 9/11.

Keep digging I say

That would be an effective piece on the playing field of hiding knowledge. Ideally you would want many, many different 'free energy' gurus all pushing their different theories and non-working generators. And maybe cover one in a more mainstream media every once in awhile, like you said and get hopes up, only to have it not go anywhere.

Of course the whole idea of 'free energy' is sort of silly. Like for the sake of argument, say the atmosphere power did work on a viable commercial scale. The operator would still need to build and maintain those towers, connect them through electric lines, and have all sorts of electric equipment like substations and transformers between the towers and the customers. Then a whole administration of people, like for customer service.

I agree with your first paragraph; there are a lot of hoaxes and scams, not to mention poisoning of the well with some inexplicable "free energy manuals" online, which may or may not actually help someone build one of the motors. I could even post some if you'd like.

However, please bear in mind that the purpose of many of the 'free energy' stories (hoax or not) is to make it so that each home could have their own personal energy device, requiring no need for the services of the monopolies.

Like Simon, I'd like to take a "sit back and observe" stance on this topic for now, but I wanted to make it clear that the manuals are readily available online for you to vet/reject; though every person I've met who claims to be using a motor that increases efficiency far beyond the MME (metered monopolistic energy, shall we say?) says that they did not use the manuals I've found. What's more, they all claim to have been "harassed" which they have "felt" is slightly "in connection" to their use of such high efficiency devices. I don't think anyone should merely take my word on the subject, however. Also, I simply don't believe my minor experiences are the end of the story; on the contrary. Nor should we be afraid to explore the possibilities as deeply as they go to benefit humankind. Therefore, if anyone is curious, and the other admins approve, I will happily post links. After all, what could be gained from our exploration of this topic if, at the very least, it is a debunking of the scammy motors out there. At best, we might be able to conclude that some look more promising or even, if administrators find it alright, help anyone sort through the nonsense toward the best information we find that is useful to helping people construct them.

Lord knows we do not want this forum to devolve into speculation and pseudoscience, as nonhocapito rightly/righteously warns us about, for good reason. Yet, maybe it is our skepticism that could finally bring the good information out of the nonsense, like an acid bath purifying the info. Maybe for another special (and specially moderated) topic.

Perfectly put aa5 as we witness ‘free energy’ almost everywhere we look. Tree branches bending in the wind, hot sand on the beach, a raging torrent of water...all ‘free’ and indeed all apparently harnessed by our utility companies via wind turbines, solar panels and hydro systems (though the term ‘free’ is replaced with ‘renewable’ I suppose because the source is free but the infrastructure required to refine into a usable product most certainly isn’t).

However, all of the above can only work as part of a ‘national grid’ as you can’t just stick solar panels on your roof, construct a wind turbine or build a dam in your back garden and expect the arrival of those dreaded brown envelopes to cease. The average household cannot be electrically self sufficient with any of these methods because of their extreme variability (night / day / cloudy / sunny / windy / not a breath) but I acknowledge that it’s possible financially via convoluted government ‘feed in tariffs’ (that work courtesy of other peoples tax money) once your initial costs of dam construction with your own personal turbine hall have been covered by your savings on bills.

I suppose the difference is, If (and I do mean if) any of the information about Hermann Plauson and his discoveries turn out to be true and let’s just say that 'things had been different’ and everyone knew the facts of where electricity came from (the air). That it only required storage for reliable consumption, then true self sufficiency or at least local self sufficiency would obviously appear ‘doable’ and would entirely negate the need for a ‘national’ grid and it’s ‘providers’ (bastards who demand a sizable chunk of yer days labour). One could envisage the adverts...

Which kind of brings me back to this question of capacitance. Even with the tech’ that the general public are aware of, the crudest of which I would say was lead / acid (typical car battery) the costs aren’t really that bad. For example, to provide an hours worth of electricity for my house at full tilt I’d need just over seven of these weighty blocks at £34 a piece...

Now, if I had a dirt cheap and reliable method of constantly topping them up I’d be laughing but unfortunately neither wind or solar are capable of this (no breeze and it’s night time = no juice within an hour, obviously not an option). Prohibited too by the initial cost of your ‘recharging system’...none of which could ever be described as ‘affordable’ so may as well save yourself the bother and just pay the existing ‘provider’. Not to mention the fact that all batteries degrade over time so I’d have to factor in cost replacement of these too.

But here’s the thing. These old Leyden jars (not the proverbial but truly old, ‘officially’ from 1745 onwards) seem to display an extraordinary level of capacitance. We’re used to batteries of say 1.5, 9 or 12 volt but these things are said to be capable of storing anything up to 35.000 volts and possibly just as importantly don’t appear to degrade over time. What’s more, they would seem cheap, really cheap. Just some metal foil inside and outside a half filled glass jar of water and a conductive rod.

Well this is the science that we are taught. The basic ‘standard indices’ of electricity tell us that ‘Volts’ alone mean nothing and have to be multiplied by ‘Amps’ to equal power (Watts) so 35,000 times nothing = nothing. Yet in Wiki’s entry they talk of early experimenters afraid to handle these ‘jars’ as there was a chance of being.. ‘thrown across the room’...so obviously not ‘nothing’ but serious power, watt?

It does seem to me an insane idea to try to perfectly balance generation with demand as the official story goes. One possibility would be to have something in the middle, that the generation is constantly powering up, and the demand is constantly using a portion of.

I remember seeing an electric truck online from about 15-20 years ago, where the guy had a conventional gas motor, that powered up a battery, and the battery would top up a bunch of super-capacitors. Then those super-caps would send power to the electric motors which turned the wheels. The advantage of the super-caps was they seemed to not wear down easily with charging and recharging, and they could dump incredible amounts of power per second. The power from the super-caps could literally tear the wheels right off the truck, if he had wanted to put the settings of the electric motors at that level.

So theoretically his electric pickup truck could have bursts of acceleration only limited by other components of the vehicle, like the wheels and axles.

With the battery capacity you estimated for a person's house. I wonder if instead of 1 house, it was for an area of 100,000 houses, if you could use a far smaller battery/leyden jar, knowing that all of them would not be going full blast at the same time.

It does seem to me an insane idea to try to perfectly balance generation with demand as the official story goes. One possibility would be to have something in the middle, that the generation is constantly powering up, and the demand is constantly using a portion of.

Yes, this to me is the crux of it. That demand is instantaneous but supply is anything but. Not a problem though if you have adequate storage (batteries of some type) as this would provide a buffer between supply / demand which could be easily monitored and replenished as required. Thus negating the need to waste fuel when it’s not needed whilst always on hand to deliver a reliable supply and of course negating the need for a national grid control room constantly battling (as we have seen) to keep the supply almost perfectly matched to whatever the general populace seem to be in the mood for consuming.It’s very much like the mains water supply without reservoirs, lakes, towers (storage facilities) and expecting a regular pressure to emerge from the tap.

We're told that demand is actually quite predictable but I really wonder about this. Certainly from personal experience my electricity bills vary enormously from quarter to quarter. They are never what I expect (apart from ‘Ghaaaaar!...to ‘What in the name of the Lord almighty, you f*****g bastards’) which shows that just our own household consumption isn’t predictable at all, but over the place.

I'm not an expert in that area, but it looks like pump storages are the solution to your problem. In times of excess energy they consume more than they produce. Sounds like a suitable method for balancing the energy supply with the current demand.