Danks - threw a good bullpen session, feels great. Will probably be ready for a rehab assignment this weekend or next week.
EDIT: 6/7 - depending on the time of Danks rehab, looking to be back in the rotation next weekend against the Dodgers or facing the Cubs.

Morel - the same.

Fukudome - has a rib injury, not back as first thought. May have to go on the DL.
EDIT: 6/7 Fukudome on DL, retroactive to Monday

If Fukudome goes on the DL I'd assume we'd get a taste of Jordan Danks, no?

DumpJerry

06-06-2012, 11:26 PM

If Fukudome goes on the DL I'd assume we'd get a taste of Jordan Danks, no?
Nope. He's not ready.

thomas35forever

06-06-2012, 11:30 PM

Nope. He's not ready.

Will he ever be?

TomBradley72

06-07-2012, 06:36 AM

If Fukudome goes on the DL I'd assume we'd get a taste of Jordan Danks, no?

Maybe Johnson?

Gives you a LH bat for LF/RF/1B/3B?

Bucky F. Dent

06-07-2012, 10:33 AM

Maybe Johnson?

Gives you a LH bat for LF/RF/1B/3B?

I would be happy to see this.

I was hoping there was room for him on the opening night roster. He's a solid veteran bat that seemed to do well in the clutch for the Rays.

EMachine10

06-07-2012, 10:43 AM

Danks is coming up per Gonzo.

salty99

06-07-2012, 12:09 PM

Nope. He's not ready.

Guess he is.

Frater Perdurabo

06-07-2012, 03:11 PM

Maybe Johnson?

Gives you a LH bat for LF/RF/1B/3B?

Perhaps Danks comes up as the 4th OF, and Johnson takes Lillibridge's roster spot to be the backup 1B/3B/DH and primary pinch hitter.

DumpJerry

06-07-2012, 04:39 PM

Nope. He's not ready.

Guess he is.
Well, now you know why I'm not a member of the Sox' scouting staff.

#1swisher

06-08-2012, 05:35 PM

Scott Merkin
News on Brent Morel doesn't sound positive. He took himself out of Charlotte game last night after one at-bat.

More back issues, but Robin said pregame he's comfortable with Hudson, Escobar and Lillibridge at third base

Bruce Levine
Morel has returned to Chicago to have lower-back injury re-evaluated by team doctors

#1swisher

06-08-2012, 06:59 PM

Scott Merkin
John Danks just caught a first pitch from a viking and a dragon. You can't make up this stuff

#1swisher

06-10-2012, 10:22 AM

Viciedo - In 6.10 lineup
Left the 6.8 game due to cramping in both hamstrings. Still tight as of 6.9, left hamstring was tighter than the right.
He was available to pinch-hit.

Danks - Will test his left-shoulder strain on Tuesday in Columbus. "We aren't going to get too far ahead of ourselves. We are trying to take it day by day." said Coop on how many minor league starts Danks will need.

Morel - more in-depth tests to figure out what the latest issue.

KMcMahon817

06-10-2012, 10:55 AM

I am starting to think that Morel's back may keep him out of action for the remainder of the season. Which brings us back to our overall production at 3B. I think a platoon of Hudson and Escobar (yes, I would like to see Escobar in there 2 or 3 times a week) is fine through July, but if the SOX are still in the thick of things, it wouldn't be a terrible idea to look for some short-term help.

Youk may obviously be the easiest option due to his contract. It would be a classic rent-a-player and if they were to deal for him close to the deadline the financial burden would only be roughly $4M + $1M buyout. I would assume the White Sox could get him for virtually nothing if they picked up the whole tab. I am not a huge fan of Youk, but this would not be a terrible option at that point.

There may be other options out there, but Youkilis is short-term and wouldn't cost the SOX all that much cash. I do know one thing, we are going to need better production out of our 3B as time goes on.

KMcMahon817

06-10-2012, 01:12 PM

Robin said on the pregame show to not expect Morel to play "anytime soon". When asked what that meant, he said they need to find someone who can figure out what is wrong with Brent's and "to get it fixed". When asked what that meant, he said surgery is a serious option at this point. Not lookin' like Morel will be back this season.

CSN - If Danks needs another rehab start, he would pitch either Sun. or Mon. in Charlotte.
On track to return against Brewers, June 23.
http://www.csnchicago.com/baseball-chicago-whitesox/whitesox-talk/Danks-pitches-four-innings-in-Triple-A-r?blockID=723498&feedID=661&awid=5313214634544145839-914

#1swisher

06-13-2012, 11:04 AM

Brent Morel saw a spine specialist on Monday, then heading to LA this week to see another back specialist.

John Danks' shoulder feels normal. After Tues. rehab start, he said the biggest thing is being healthy and feeling good, which he does. RV wants one more rehab start.

This Danks injury really snowballed fast. First it was "he's going to miss one start" to "he'll miss two starts but doesn't need a rehab" and now he needs to make multiple rehab starts. Better safe than sorry I guess. I eagerly await the day our rotation gets back to full strength though.

russ99

06-13-2012, 12:26 PM

This Danks injury really snowballed fast. First it was "he's going to miss one start" to "he'll miss two starts but doesn't need a rehab" and now he needs to make multiple rehab starts. Better safe than sorry I guess. I eagerly await the day our rotation gets back to full strength though.

If a lot of Danks' ineffectiveness was due to carrying the injury at the start of the year, it makes sense for the Sox to bring him a little more up to speed than usual in rehab starts.

Just a shame about Morel, I hope they don't have to do surgery, as once they do that, he'll never be the same. Also, it's rotten timing, as at least Crede had developed much more before his back became so troublesome. You have to wonder if this will limit his ceiling.

roylestillman

06-13-2012, 12:42 PM

If a lot of Danks' ineffectiveness was due to carrying the injury at the start of the year, it makes sense for the Sox to bring him a little more up to speed than usual in rehab starts.

Just a shame about Morel, I hope they don't have to do surgery, as once they do that, he'll never be the same. Also, it's rotten timing, as at least Crede had developed much more before his back became so troublesome. You have to wonder if this will limit his ceiling.
I've never heard anybody give an explanation of how Danks injury was hurting his performance this year. Was it mechanics, speed, or control? What besides rest (which these rehab starts won't provide) has been done to change that?

#1swisher

06-13-2012, 06:41 PM

Chicago White Sox

Adam Dunn is out of tonight's lineup with a slightly sprained right ankle.

Lip Man 1

06-14-2012, 05:45 PM

Danks "sore." Not sure if its normal or not. Remains to be seen if he's activated for Monday and the Cubs:

Lip
That's a bit disturbing. A lot depends on Danks coming back and being healthy. Hopefully it is just soreness from not having thrown in a while.

Crooked Number

06-14-2012, 11:10 PM

That's a bit disturbing. A lot depends on Danks coming back and being healthy. Hopefully it is just soreness from not having thrown in a while.

Sigh. If he can't go Monday who would take the mound then? I am 1-4 at home, and I have seen Humber (who pitched well actually but lost) and Gavin twice my last three games. Hopefully its neither of these two...

JB98

06-14-2012, 11:12 PM

Sigh. If he can't go Monday who would take the mound then? I am 1-4 at home, and I have seen Humber (who pitched well actually but lost) and Gavin twice my last three games. Hopefully its neither of these two...

I figure Peavy would go Monday if Danks isn't ready to return. Jake pitched Wednesday, so he'd be on regular rest for Monday.

sox1970

06-14-2012, 11:13 PM

Sigh. If he can't go Monday who would take the mound then? I am 1-4 at home, and I have seen Humber (who pitched well actually but lost) and Gavin twice my last three games. Hopefully its neither of these two...

Daryl Van Schouven
Dunn's sore ankle feels "about the same" as yesterday. "Not as good as I was hoping for."

He talked Ventura into letting him play Thursday and delivered his 22nd homer. Tough assignment tonight in LHP Kershaw.

Danks
Still sore, will meet with team doctor on Monday.
http://www.csnchicago.com/baseball-chicago-whitesox/whitesox-news/Still-sore-Danks-will-meet-with-team-doc?blockID=725692&feedID=661&awid=6285833218945200003-914

Still no answer for why Danks is sore after seeing Angels doctor Saturday. Gonzo says he'll need at least two more rehab starts in best case scenario.
Lip

Maybe he is doing the same thing that Rodney Dangerfield did in Caddyshack, I suck therefore I am hurt. "Oh my arm, it's broken !"

shingo10

06-18-2012, 12:49 PM

Just heard on radio Danks is going for MRI today.

Now, they would have had to have done one right when he went on the DL right??

In any event its not good news, unless of course it comes back A-Okay.

russ99

06-18-2012, 01:22 PM

Just heard on radio Danks is going for MRI today.

Now, they would have had to have done one right when he went on the DL right??

In any event its not good news, unless of course it comes back A-Okay.

Ugh, that doesn't bode well...

They may have tried to rest him when he went on the DL, but he's now talking about things being more painful after a rehab start.

Harry Chappas

06-18-2012, 01:25 PM

Just heard on radio Danks is going for MRI today.

Now, they would have had to have done one right when he went on the DL right??

In any event its not good news, unless of course it comes back A-Okay.

The Sox and their MRIs are confusing. First, we had Sale who was temporarily moved to the pen after reporting minor soreness. After much confusion and second-guessing, they finally ordered an MRI which came back pristine. Now, it sounds like Danks will get an MRI after a stint on the DL and a rehab start.

Wouldn't an MRI would be the first order of business? It's non-invasive and wouldn't take more than an hour or two. Am I missing something here?

Our pitching staff is really wearing it this year. I'd love to see us completely healthy but that is just a pipe dream at this point. Crain has seemed off though. He has constantly been leaving the ball way up in the zone.

shingo10

06-29-2012, 12:10 PM

Anyupdate on Danks or Humber?

Just saw on my fantasy baseball ticker that Danks is probably going to have another MRI next week. Says if it comes back good he might be able to start doing more than long toss in his rehab.

DeadMoney

06-29-2012, 12:42 PM

Just saw on my fantasy baseball ticker that Danks is probably going to have another MRI next week. Says if it comes back good he might be able to start doing more than long toss in his rehab.

Saw yesterday that he threw off flat ground and reported no change in how he felt.

Jesse Crain
On Thursday went to see Dr. David Altchek, who repaired his torn rotator cuff and labrum in 2007. From what Altchek saw, no MRI exam was needed. Scheduled to throw again on Sunday or Monday, decision to go on DL then.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/crain-may-put-dl-ailing-081017859--mlb.html

Because there is a huge difference between Phill Humber circa Perfect Game & 1st half of 2011 for that matter -- topping out at 94 mph with late movement, sharp control and nasty breaking ball......... and Phillip Humber barely breaking 90, everything straight and hanging over heart of the plate.

Basically same with John Danks, only with Danks it was his change-up as strike-out pitch rather than curveball/slider as with Humber.... There is no way either Danks or Humber were as bad as they pitched for most of 2012. Had to be a deadarm or injury or both.

I still blame Hawk "the Ken" Harrelson. You know when you gush, rave about how magicians Herm Schneider and Coop keep everyone healthy...year after year... nothing good can come from it. It's like always bringing up the Sox having 2nd best record against NL.... you knew at one point the baseball gods or Jinx or both have a say :rolleyes:

It's, like, science and whatnot.

jcw218

07-03-2012, 11:41 PM

Jesse Crain headed to the DL with right shoulder discomfort. No reported structural damage. No word on who will be called up

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

ChiSoxGal85

07-04-2012, 08:38 AM

Jesse Crain headed to the DL with right shoulder discomfort. No reported structural damage. No word on who will be called up

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

Holy cow. The bullpen better get some "The Kids Can Pitch" t-shirts made!

MtGrnwdSoxFan

07-04-2012, 08:42 AM

Jesse Crain headed to the DL with right shoulder discomfort. No reported structural damage. No word on who will be called up

Sent from my iPod touch using Forum Runner

How's that Gregory Infante kid been doing? Might he be the next one called up?

DumpJerry

07-04-2012, 03:36 PM

How's that Gregory Infante kid been doing? Might he be the next one called up?
Duente Heath. (http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/07/04/white-sox-call-up-heath-to-replace-crain/)

#1swisher

07-06-2012, 05:50 PM

Scott Merkin
Danks on his rehab for the left shoulder: "As soon as I’m ready to do something, we are going to do it. I’m tired of where we are at."

Danks said the soreness is getting better and his frustration comes from not being out there and pitching for a first-place team

So that brings us back to Chappas' question. Why not just do the damn MRI anyway?

hawkjt

07-07-2012, 09:35 AM

Humber threw 63 pitches last nite,gave up a couple of runs,but said afterward that his arm feels good. Looks like he will make one more rehab start(probably Wed),and then be ready to come back for the Detroit series after next weekend.

Would be good to have him available on the tail-end of the first time thru the rotation after the ASG. My choice: Peavy,Quintana,Floyd vs KC,with Sale,Humber and Peavy vs Tigers.

kobo

07-12-2012, 09:48 AM

Cooper was on the Score this morning with Hanley and Rozner and Rozner asked about Danks. Coop said Danks isn't on his radar and doesn't expect anything to happen for another 2-3 weeks. Said Danks is still feeling soreness and that they are taking their time with him. Rozner then asked how long it would take Danks to come back when he finally does feel right and Cooper said it would be another 3-4 weeks after that. So, if Danks does return to the rotation it most likely won't be until September.

ChiSoxGirl

07-12-2012, 11:47 AM

Cooper was on the Score this morning with Hanley and Rozner and Rozner asked about Danks. Coop said Danks isn't on his radar and doesn't expect anything to happen for another 2-3 weeks. Said Danks is still feeling soreness and that they are taking their time with him. Rozner then asked how long it would take Danks to come back when he finally does feel right and Cooper said it would be another 3-4 weeks after that. So, if Danks does return to the rotation it most likely won't be until September.

Coop also noted that Danks has made "minimal progress" in his time on the DL. :(:

sox1970

07-12-2012, 12:04 PM

They just have to assume Danks isn't coming back this season when making roster decisions for the playoff run. They're probably already in that mindset.

palehozenychicty

07-12-2012, 12:29 PM

They just have to assume Danks isn't coming back this season when making roster decisions for the playoff run. They're probably already in that mindset.

Has his injury been officially diagnosed? Would he undergo surgery?

doublem23

07-12-2012, 12:35 PM

Has his injury been officially diagnosed? Would he undergo surgery?

Official diagnosis was a Grade 1 tear of his subscapularis muscle (http://www.eorthopod.com/images/ContentImages/shoulder/shoulder_anatomy/shoulder_anatomy_muscles02.jpg) in his left shoulder. Grade 1 tears generally don't require surgery as the damage has been limited to individual fibers and not the general tissue itself.

Trying to keep the glass half full, hopefully John is able to return by late August or September healthy and effective. It would really be great to add a pitcher of his caliber, completely healthy and rested that deep into the season. Really could be a move that would put this team over the top.

JB98

07-12-2012, 01:02 PM

Doesn't sound good for Danks. I'll keep my fingers crossed that he can help us in September. It might not be realistic to hope for much more than that.

Hopefully, Humber is able to come back and pitch decent. I don't expect huge things from Phil because he's nothing more than a back-end starter at the end of the day. But, he does have more talent than Axelrod and I'd like to see him pitch up to his capabilities. He wasn't doing that for much of May or June.

I'm sure KW is on the prowl for pitching help, but it's a seller's market with so many teams still believing they have a shot at it.

Noneck

07-12-2012, 01:07 PM

The Danks news is not good but if Humber is healthy things are not that bad. The Sox would have 3 starters to fill 2 slots, many teams would love that situation. Crain coming back healthy is very important.

Chez

07-12-2012, 02:55 PM

The Sox Sent Heath back following Sunday's game. That means there is one roster spot to be filled before Friday's game? Has anyone heard whether Crain and/or Bruney are ready?

doublem23

07-12-2012, 03:27 PM

The Sox Sent Heath back following Sunday's game. That means there is one roster spot to be filled before Friday's game? Has anyone heard whether Crain and/or Bruney are ready?

It would have to be a short stay, as Humber is scheduled to start Tuesday in Boston.

delben91

07-12-2012, 03:39 PM

It would have to be a short stay, as Humber is scheduled to start Tuesday in Boston.

Phil pitched six innings, allowing one run on two hits. He struck out five, walked none and earned the victory in Birmingham's 4-1 win over Tennessee.

This is good news. Man, if Humber can come back and competently replace Axelrod it will be a huge boost for the roation. Giddiup.

Noneck

07-12-2012, 08:18 PM

This is good news. Man, if Humber can come back and competently replace Axelrod it will be a huge boost for the roation. Giddiup.

There is absolutely no comparison between Humber and Axlerods stuff. If Humber is not hurting anymore, he is a huge addition to the rotation. If not, Axlerod may be ok. My concern is still Crain.

Chez

07-13-2012, 06:44 AM

This is good news. Man, if Humber can come back and competently replace Axelrod it will be a huge boost for the roation. Giddiup.

Amen. The scenario I'm looking forward to is when Danks returns. Assuming all our starters are still healthy and rolling at the time, that would mean Humber likely moves to the bullpen giving us a legit long man. Hopefully Danks does, in fact, return. We really need Crain back for this road trip.

Frater Perdurabo

07-13-2012, 10:27 AM

Glad to see Humber pitch so well in his rehab start. I don't expect perfection, but it would be nice just to get some quality starts from him as the fifth starter.

Zisk77

07-13-2012, 10:52 AM

Amen. The scenario I'm looking forward to is when Danks returns. Assuming all our starters are still healthy and rolling at the time, that would mean Humber likely moves to the bullpen giving us a legit long man. Hopefully Danks does, in fact, return. We really need Crain back for this road trip.

Yes, with some 6 man rotation thrown in to:

Get additional rest for Sale/Peavey

Keep everyone fresh threw the dog days.

Manipulate the order so Sale & Floyd pitch against Detroit.

#1swisher

07-15-2012, 10:56 AM

Dan Hayes

Gavin Floyd pushed back tomorrow with tendinitis in forearm/elbow. Had MRI in Chicago yesterday, showed no structural damage.

soxfanreggie

07-15-2012, 11:13 AM

Yes, with some 6 man rotation thrown in to:

Get additional rest for Sale/Peavey

Keep everyone fresh threw the dog days.

Manipulate the order so Sale & Floyd pitch against Detroit.

We may not have enough healthy starters at any one time to do a six man. If we do, the rest for Sale is good.

If we're in a playoff run and Jake isn't likely to come back next year, do you think they'll worry about his arm as much if it could be the difference between getting in or not? It's an interesting questions.

JB98

07-15-2012, 12:00 PM

Dan Hayes

Gavin Floyd pushed back tomorrow with tendinitis in forearm/elbow. Had MRI in Chicago yesterday, showed no structural damage.

Been a rough year for trying to keep Sox pitchers healthy.

delben91

07-15-2012, 01:03 PM

Dan Hayes

Gavin Floyd pushed back tomorrow with tendinitis in forearm/elbow. Had MRI in Chicago yesterday, showed no structural damage.

So can Humber go Monday, Floyd Tuesday and Axelrod Wednesday?

Probably can't do Axelrod any earlier since he threw a few innings Friday, though maybe he could go on Tuesday and give Floyd 2 extra days?

DonnieDarko

07-15-2012, 01:09 PM

So can Humber go Monday, Floyd Tuesday and Axelrod Wednesday?

Probably can't do Axelrod any earlier since he threw a few innings Friday, though maybe he could go on Tuesday and give Floyd 2 extra days?

The way that things are looking, it seems that Axelrod gets Floyd's next start, with Humber starting Tuesday.

Chez

07-15-2012, 05:41 PM

Axelrod is being used like Boston used Tim Wakefield -- except Dylan doesn't have a knuckler.

Frater Perdurabo

07-16-2012, 08:48 PM

Gonzo reports (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0717-white-sox-bits--20120717,0,4836843.story) the Sox are expected to place Floyd on the DL.

Hitmen77

07-16-2012, 09:04 PM

Gonzo reports (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0717-white-sox-bits--20120717,0,4836843.story) the Sox are expected to place Floyd on the DL.

Oh brother. Just when he seem to have turned the corner the last few outings. I hope it's a short stay on the DL.

At least Quintana and Axelrod have given us good starts. I hope Humber is healthy and ready to give us some good starts when he joins us in Minnesota.

I'm not sure if that little blurb at the end of Gonzo's article was reporting progress for Danks or not. He was happy to be throwing, but still sore.

WhiteSox5187

07-16-2012, 09:18 PM

Gonzo reports (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/ct-spt-0717-white-sox-bits--20120717,0,4836843.story) the Sox are expected to place Floyd on the DL.

This is very bad news. It really shows Buerhle's value, I am not questioning the logic in letting him go or anything but having a guy who is going to take the ball every fifth day no matter what is such a valuable thing to have.

Noneck

07-16-2012, 10:02 PM

Humber has to now come back at 100%, maybe they can get by with Sale, Peavy, Humber, Quintana, Axlerod, till Floyd gets back or a deal is made. The pen still worrys me more, Thornton plus the kids scares the living heck out of me.

delben91

07-16-2012, 10:43 PM

Humber has to now come back at 100%, maybe they can get by with Sale, Peavy, Humber, Quintana, Axlerod, till Floyd gets back or a deal is made. The pen still worrys me more, Thornton plus the kids scares the living heck out of me.

Crain should be back next week, meaning one of Septimo, Omogrosso or Martinez can go back to AAA.

If Floyd has a short DL stint (retro-active to his last start before the break, so maybe only miss one start?) when he returns, Axelrod can head to the bullpen and one of the others mentioned above can also go to AAA.

Looks like a whole different rotation and bullpen at that point, and that assumes Danks stays out.

In a matter of a week, could look like a very different pitching staff.

Lip Man 1

07-16-2012, 10:59 PM

Delben:

If Floyd goes on the DL (and that now appears likely) he'll miss more than one start because the Sox will certainly send him to Triple A for some work.

This is a strange situation to me especially based on Floyd's quotes today to Gonzo that he didn't think he could go (paraphrasing) 'because he was worried it was going to get worse.' This coming after the MRI showed no structural damage according to Robin.

I wonder what Kenny thought after reading / hearing those comments.

Well if DL'ing him for three weeks (with rehab) clears his mind and enables him to pitch well down the stretch then it's best to do so rather than try to force him to pitch when he's obviously not comfortable with the idea.

But all things considered Kenny has got to make moves and get help, he can't afford to make the mistake Scheuler did in 2000 when the staff was breaking down and he went out and got Baines and Charles Johnson at the deadline.

The Sox paid for that error in judgment in September, in the playoffs and then in 2001 because of all the surgeries.

Lip

delben91

07-16-2012, 11:56 PM

Delben:

If Floyd goes on the DL (and that now appears likely) he'll miss more than one start because the Sox will certainly send him to Triple A for some work.

This is a strange situation to me especially based on Floyd's quotes today to Gonzo that he didn't think he could go (paraphrasing) 'because he was worried it was going to get worse.' This coming after the MRI showed no structural damage according to Robin.

I wonder what Kenny thought after reading / hearing those comments.

Well if DL'ing him for three weeks (with rehab) clears his mind and enables him to pitch well down the stretch then it's best to do so rather than try to force him to pitch when he's obviously not comfortable with the idea.

But all things considered Kenny has got to make moves and get help, he can't afford to make the mistake Scheuler did in 2000 when the staff was breaking down and he went out and got Baines and Charles Johnson at the deadline.

The Sox paid for that error in judgment in September, in the playoffs and then in 2001 because of all the surgeries.

Lip

I see what you're saying, but I'm not sure what indicates the 30-day DL is necessary (since you're saying 3 weeks, that's more than the 15-day). Would think they'd start with 15-day and just extend it if needed.

Frater Perdurabo

07-17-2012, 05:45 AM

Lip, the 2000 Sox lost to Seattle because they could not hit in the ALDS. They pitched fine in that series. I am not saying it would have held up, but in that series the pitching was adequate while the hitting was atrocious.

In 2001, KW got one of the best starters available in trade (Wells), but he got hurt. Their best hitter also missed most of the year. I don't know how much more could have been done then.

Harry Chappas

07-17-2012, 10:12 AM

What's the latest on Danks? I don't recall hearing much about him.

shingo10

07-17-2012, 10:56 AM

What's the latest on Danks? I don't recall hearing much about him.

He threw from 90 feet yesterday for the first time in a long time. He said he still felt sore but that things are "definitely moving in the right direction." I really, really hope he is right.

Lip Man 1

07-17-2012, 11:23 AM

Frater:

Briefly...the Sox scored four runs and had the lead late in game #1. That was more than enough to win the game. Win that game and you potentially change the entire series.

Schueler didn't get pitching which was badly needed...which forced the rest of the pitchers into heavier loads...which resulted in guys breaking down (Sirotka and Parque) in September to go along with guys like Baldwin and Eldred who were already hurt and / or missed time.

The bullpen guys also got extended and hurt (Wunsch, Howry, Simas).

The Sox had if memory is correct a half dozen pitchers go under the knife when all was said and done.

Sirotka, Parque, Simas and Wunsch were never the same again or didn't pitch anymore after it.

And that wasn't Williams by the way that was Schueler.

At the time of the trade deadline Eldred was already out with the elbow and Baldwin was starting to have issues. In fact Baldwin would miss a month of the second half of that year and was pitching on guts the rest of the time when he did return.

I do not want to see the Sox in the same situation again if it can be helped remember Peavy probably isn't returning next year and Floyd can be a free agent if the Sox don't invoke the option (again if I remember correctly...)

Delbin:

My correct was based on how long he'd probably be out...not on what type of DL he's placed on.

Lip

doublem23

07-17-2012, 11:46 AM

I can't believe anyone thinks it was a mistake for Schueler to hold his ground in 2000 and not empty the farm system, considering many of the brightest prospects he surely would have had to have given away wound up being key cogs in that Sox team in 2005, which did pretty well, IIRC.

Lip Man 1

07-17-2012, 12:08 PM

It all would have depended on what other teams were asking for which no one except Schueler knows for sure.

Some clubs might have wanted higher prospects, some lower ones, we don't know.

We do know that Sox pitchers were falling left and right and the inactivity not only hurt the 2000 season but also gutted the 2001 season and ended careers.

In a perfect situation, if the Sox say went to the World Series every eight to 10 years or regularly made the playoffs then I understand the point completely.

History shows though the Sox don't do it for whatever reason or reasons, so when the opportunity comes along, you have to go for it in my opinion.

It's an interesting debate point though.

History does show though that Schueler was overconservative with his prospects in general during his tenure. Most of them never worked out (as most minor leaguers fall into that category...) You can make the case that philosophy also cost potential postseason appearances in 1991 and 1996. You can't win a World Series if you never get there in the first place.

I recall Jack McDowell telling me along the lines that the Sox had some very good teams in the 90's but were always "one player short somewhere" and that seemed to always wind up killing them.

Lip

doublem23

07-17-2012, 12:12 PM

History shows though the Sox don't do it for whatever reason or reasons, so when the opportunity comes along, you have to go for it in my opinion.

It's an interesting debate point though.

That's a fine point that I generally agree with, but ultimately hindsight in this situation, I would think, has to prove that Schueler accurately scouted his own prospects and deemed it was better in the long haul to hold on to them rather than push all the chips in with a deeply flawed 2000 team.

Just my :twocents:

Frater Perdurabo

07-17-2012, 01:11 PM

Frater:

Briefly...the Sox scored four runs and had the lead late in game #1. That was more than enough to win the game. Win that game and you potentially change the entire series.

Schueler didn't get pitching which was badly needed...which forced the rest of the pitchers into heavier loads...which resulted in guys breaking down (Sirotka and Parque) in September to go along with guys like Baldwin and Eldred who were already hurt and / or missed time.

The bullpen guys also got extended and hurt (Wunsch, Howry, Simas).

The Sox had if memory is correct a half dozen pitchers go under the knife when all was said and done.

Sirotka, Parque, Simas and Wunsch were never the same again or didn't pitch anymore after it.

And that wasn't Williams by the way that was Schueler.

At the time of the trade deadline Eldred was already out with the elbow and Baldwin was starting to have issues. In fact Baldwin would miss a month of the second half of that year and was pitching on guts the rest of the time when he did return.

I do not want to see the Sox in the same situation again if it can be helped remember Peavy probably isn't returning next year and Floyd can be a free agent if the Sox don't invoke the option (again if I remember correctly...)

Delbin:

My correct was based on how long he'd probably be out...not on what type of DL he's placed on.

Lip

All great points, Lip, and I remember most of that as much as you, and I agree that Schueler should have gotten more pitching at the deadline in 2000. But it was the lack of hitting in games 2 and 3 specifically that killed the Sox in that short ALDS. I'm not sure more or better pitching would have been enough to overcome the bad hitting in that series. Was more pitching needed? Yes. But you also need to score runs and the Sox offense, which had no problems scoring throughout 2000, failed to do so in the ALDS.

Given the sorry state of our pitching going into the 2001 season, upon earning the GM title, KW made the right move on paper by acquiring Wells for Sirotka, who would never pitch again.

Frater Perdurabo

07-17-2012, 01:28 PM

That's a fine point that I generally agree with, but ultimately hindsight in this situation, I would think, has to prove that Schueler accurately scouted his own prospects and deemed it was better in the long haul to hold on to them rather than push all the chips in with a deeply flawed 2000 team.

Just my :twocents:

I think you are right that Schueler was correct not to trade away young prospects like Rowand, Crede, Garland, Buehrle, etc. in 2000, as they became cogs of the 2005 team.

But the hindsight of history also shows Schueler was wrong in 1991, 92, 93, 96 and 97, not to acquire needed bats or arms by trading his prized draft choice prospects that usually amounted to nothing. As I recall, the only Sox-developed prospects that did pan out during the 90s (after the Larry Himes wave of drafted/acquired talent that included McDowell, Ventura, Frank, Fernandez, Alvarez, Hernandez and Baldwin) were Ray Durham and Mike Cameron (whom he did deal for PK, a move that worked out pretty well).

So, both Doub and Lip are correct. In honor of Jerry Manuel, let's go have ice cream. :tongue:

Lip Man 1

07-17-2012, 01:51 PM

Frater:

But like I told Double, we don't know if any of those guys were actually asked for. Who knows for sure.

Different organizations have different standards on what they see and what they want. Buehrle was already on the big club by the trade deadline for example, and so was Garland, so they might not have even been a part of the discussions.

Unfortunately we'll never know for sure.

As far as the 90's, Scheuler was always pinning his hopes on guys like Rodney Bolton and Scott Ruffcorn.

Lip

Frater Perdurabo

07-17-2012, 02:28 PM

Frater:

...

As far as the 90's, Scheuler was always pinning his hopes on guys like Rodney Bolton and Scott Ruffcorn.

Lip

Agreed, and that was the problem!

wilburaga

07-17-2012, 02:45 PM

Incredible that three of our opening day starting five have gone to the DL and none of them are named Peavy or Sale. This is one of the weirdest seasons I have ever seen.

doublem23

07-17-2012, 03:08 PM

Frater:

But like I told Double, we don't know if any of those guys were actually asked for. Who knows for sure.

Different organizations have different standards on what they see and what they want. Buehrle was already on the big club by the trade deadline for example, and so was Garland, so they might not have even been a part of the discussions.

Lip

We may not know for sure, but considering the two biggest blockbuster trades for pitching at the deadline in 2000 featured a bona fide MLB regular and a 2-time BA Top 10 prospect, I find it hard to believe if the Sox wanted in on any of the action, they wouldn't be forced to give up Garland, Crede, etc. who were at the time two of their biggest prospects.

I'm just saying, I think in this case, history has vindicated Schueler's decision.

Morel seems to be taking a really good attitude into his re-hab. Great to hear him talk about his support of Youkilis and how he'll fill any role that helps the team down the road, even if it's just a late inning pinch-runner or defensive replacement with Youkilis going to 1B.

I can't remember anything otherwise. His durability is amazing. He's never played in fewer than 128 games since joining the Sox. Simply incredible.

Tragg

07-25-2012, 08:43 AM

Lip that 2000 team was a tinker toy team. It did as well as it reasonably could have. And the reality is it didn't hit in the playoffs and to blame pitching when 4 runs doesn't win a game is well living in dreamland...sure 4 runs can and does win many games in MLB - so does 2 runs. But it's not enough. And honestly, but for the grace of the silly Brewers giving us Eldred and Valentin for nothing (actually, they took a negative player off of our hands), we wouldn't have contended. Still, it had 4 quality hitters (Frank, PK, Lee, Durham, Ordonez) and we patched up enough pitching (and the pen was pretty good) to take the division. Can you imagine if we had traded MB?

Unless you have a farm replete with prospects, it's a mistake to empty out what few prospects you have to patch up holes with veterans. That's a far cry from constantly selling all your vets FOR prospects - something we shouldn't do either (and don't do).
But we have to play next year and the next. And these vets are going to be rolling off contracts and we'll need some fillers.
Williams has done a good job with the pitching this year, finding us a bunch of 5th starter types (or at least guys who pitch like them). Axe has generally pitched better than Humber since the perfect game.
But what we really need, as everyone knows, is Danks back.

#1swisher

07-25-2012, 11:27 AM

Daryl Van Schouwen

Ventura on Pierzynski oblique: He could probably play through it ... don't want him to re-injure it and end up on DL. Looking at Friday.

Danks was 'sore and tight' after throwing (20) off mound Tuesday for first time in weeks. Normal soreness, trainer Herm assured him.

"Last couple of days have been an improvement, something I've needed. Hopefully we won't backtrack from there.''

"Hopefully will be back out there before the year is over helping this ballclub.''

Marqhead

07-25-2012, 03:27 PM

Youk twisted his ankle in the 4th rounding first.

#1swisher

07-26-2012, 07:19 AM

Youk twisted his ankle in the 4th rounding first.

Youkilis
Just a mild sprain, good to go on Friday.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120725&content_id=35535366&notebook_id=35550186&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

QueerGirrl

07-26-2012, 10:49 AM

Youkilis
Just a mild sprain, good to go on Friday.
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120725&content_id=35535366&notebook_id=35550186&vkey=notebook_cws&c_id=cws

I was going to start a new thread, but if you scroll down to the end of the second story on this page (Peavy understands uncertainty of Deadline) you will find this hilarious quote from Jake Peavy:

"But getting that one extra inning and saving that bullpen on my day, it's something especially with the way we are monitoring Sale and Quintana. I want to be a veteran presence, take care of myself enough to shoulder the work load for the boys."

I especially like to read this in the voice of Gordon Beckham, impersonating Jake Peavy. :tongue:

#1swisher

07-29-2012, 05:48 PM

Chicago White Sox
Robin: AJ will play tomorrow, De Aza needs another day or two

Chuck Garfien
Chris Sale is dealing with some arm fatigue. No pain, will be pushed back in the rotation. May not pitch until Friday, possibly even after that.

Scott Merkin
Sale could get extended rest this week. Not a lock to start Friday
Sale feels fine, aside from a little fatigue. Makes sense to give him break now and have him primed for September.

For those worried about AJ, no need at this point. Took full BP and was ready to go but they decided to give him another day.
The plan is to have him catch Monday and Tuesday and then off on Wed so he'll have two straight days

Hasn't everyone on here been bitching about how horrible Konerko's production has been and how he should be moved lower in the order? And now we're lost without him?

Here it is (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=135434&highlight=konerko+slump), from all of 4 days ago...

thomas35forever

08-08-2012, 11:15 PM

Hasn't everyone on here been bitching about how horrible Konerko's production has been and how he should be moved lower in the order? And now we're lost without him?

Here it is (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=135434&highlight=konerko+slump), from all of 4 days ago...
I was not one of those people. Yes, his decline has been concerning, but he's still better than anyone on the bench.

Noneck

08-08-2012, 11:20 PM

Hasn't everyone on here been bitching about how horrible Konerko's production has been and how he should be moved lower in the order? And now we're lost without him?

Here it is (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=135434&highlight=konerko+slump), from all of 4 days ago...

This is a team with a very weak bench, the loss of any regular position player for any length of time is devastating at this point of season except maybe 2nd base.

LoveYourSuit

08-09-2012, 12:47 AM

Hasn't everyone on here been bitching about how horrible Konerko's production has been and how he should be moved lower in the order? And now we're lost without him?

Here it is (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=135434&highlight=konerko+slump), from all of 4 days ago...

In all fairness, Konerko has not been Konerko for about 2 months now. There is a certain standard / level you hold your star players to and when they are not producing at that level there is cause for concern (or bitching as you would say).

That being said with looking at the alternative, give me the slap hitting / soft hitting Konerko all day over the bums siting on that bench.

palehosepub

08-09-2012, 01:45 PM

This is a team with a very weak bench, the loss of any regular position player for any length of time is devastating at this point of season except maybe 2nd base.

Agree - our bench depth was below average before the Konerko injury- and concussions do have a way of lingering. Robin has been running the regulars out there very day and they need a periodic breather (one at a time not the "Ozzie Sunday lineup" option). Overall I ilke the starting team but we have zero depth behind them- its time to get an corner outfielder / first baseman who can step in periodically for PK, Youk, etc. The time is now whether you DL Konerko or release O-Dog or send Jordan Danks down.

We need a middle infielder upgrade too.

I know these moves are easier said than done, but this team is "close" to playoff quality but realistically may be a bench player or two away.

Noneck

08-09-2012, 02:13 PM

Agree - our bench depth was below average before the Konerko injury- and concussions do have a way of lingering. Robin has been running the regulars out there very day and they need a periodic breather (one at a time not the "Ozzie Sunday lineup" option). Overall I ilke the starting team but we have zero depth behind them- its time to get an corner outfielder / first baseman who can step in periodically for PK, Youk, etc. The time is now whether you DL Konerko or release O-Dog or send Jordan Danks down.

We need a middle infielder upgrade too.

I know these moves are easier said than done, but this team is "close" to playoff quality but realistically may be a bench player or two away.

Maybe this is the point where you have to overpay. I am sure the wavier wire has someone out there that can help the club. Yes they may be over priced but now is the time you have to do what you have to do. This is the type of club that can compete in the playoffs but they have to get there first.

Huisj

08-09-2012, 02:42 PM

Dan Johnson? What's he been up to at AAA lately?

Lip Man 1

08-09-2012, 04:04 PM

There's at least three names already mentioned on this board that appear to be better than Olmedo, Hudson and Danks. I have to believe Kenny is working on this...makes no sense not to.

Lip

kittle42

08-09-2012, 04:07 PM

There's at least three names already mentioned on this board that appear to be better than Olmedo, Hudson and Danks. I have to believe Kenny is working on this...makes no sense not to.

He better be - there are guys out there (and by out there, I certainly don't mean in our own minor league system, despite how great one good and a few serviceable pitchers have convinced a section of the board that every talent evaluator is wrong) that are upgrades.

I guess we should be happy our biggest concern is bench players right now.

JB98

08-09-2012, 06:49 PM

Dan Johnson? What's he been up to at AAA lately?

He's batting .268 with 25 HRs and 73 RBIs.

He hasn't done much against MLB pitching since 2007. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsda06.shtml) Could he help the Sox? Maybe, but I can't see him being a huge difference maker.

kobo

08-09-2012, 06:57 PM

He better be - there are guys out there (and by out there, I certainly don't mean in our own minor league system, despite how great one good and a few serviceable pitchers have convinced a section of the board that every talent evaluator is wrong) that are upgrades.

I guess we should be happy our biggest concern is bench players right now.
The state of the bench is a great example of just how poor of a system the Sox have.

Aesero

08-09-2012, 07:32 PM

He's batting .268 with 25 HRs and 73 RBIs.

He hasn't done much against MLB pitching since 2007. (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/johnsda06.shtml) Could he help the Sox? Maybe, but I can't see him being a huge difference maker.

He did plenty for the Rays last year in a pinch hit role.

doublem23

08-09-2012, 08:25 PM

The state of the bench is a great example of just how poor of a system the Sox have.

I guess, but they're also only in this position because of guys like Quintana, De Aza, Reed, most of the bullpen, etc... All guys who were all in the Sox farm system at some point in the last 12 months.

kittle42

08-09-2012, 08:34 PM

He did plenty for the Rays last year in a pinch hit role.

Another instance of people only remembering games that happen that involve the Sox.

A few clicks gets you the facts. Doesn't anyone want to take a few minutes to look anything up?

Actually, I believe the pinch-hit HR was against the Yankees with two outs in the ninth that game where the Rays rallied to make the playoffs on the final day of the season. He also homered off Thornton last year, it was a 3-run shot and not in a pinch-hitting role.

Other than that, we're on the same side in this debate. I suppose Dan Johnson could help the Sox, but I wouldn't bank on it. He's never been good at the MLB level.

tstrike2000

08-09-2012, 08:50 PM

Actually, I believe the pinch-hit HR was against the Yankees with two outs in the ninth that game where the Rays rallied to make the playoffs on the final day of the season. He also homered off Thornton last year, it was a 3-run shot and not in a pinch-hitting role.

Other than that, we're on the same side in this debate. I suppose Dan Johnson could help the Sox, but I wouldn't bank on it. He's never been good at the MLB level.

Was Johnson the guy you said is out of options if we bring him up?

kobo

08-09-2012, 08:55 PM

I guess, but they're also only in this position because of guys like Quintana, De Aza, Reed, most of the bullpen, etc... All guys who were all in the Sox farm system at some point in the last 12 months.
I know I'm nitpicking here, but DeAza was on the team last year and we knew he was going to be starting this year. He's had a great season and is definitely a surprise. Reed was also going to be on the team this year as well. The 2 guys who have been surprising are Nate Jones and Quintana. But those are pitchers. There is nothing when it comes to position players. Escobar might have been useful, but he's a maybe at best. They have no position players ready to come up and take a spot on the bench or fill in for someone if there's an injury, and that's pretty sad.

JB98

08-09-2012, 08:58 PM

Was Johnson the guy you said is out of options if we bring him up?

Indeed, he is out of options. I think he's been designated for assignment more than once in his career. The Rays were able to keep him in their organization because he cleared waivers and was willing to accept assignment(s) to AAA.

kittle42

08-09-2012, 09:13 PM

Actually, I believe the pinch-hit HR was against the Yankees with two outs in the ninth that game where the Rays rallied to make the playoffs on the final day of the season. He also homered off Thornton last year, it was a 3-run shot and not in a pinch-hitting role.

Grr! I was lazy, I guess. :redface:

Noneck

08-09-2012, 09:21 PM

I know I'm nitpicking here, but DeAza was on the team last year and we knew he was going to be starting this year. He's had a great season and is definitely a surprise. Reed was also going to be on the team this year as well. The 2 guys who have been surprising are Nate Jones and Quintana. But those are pitchers. There is nothing when it comes to position players. Escobar might have been useful, but he's a maybe at best. They have no position players ready to come up and take a spot on the bench or fill in for someone if there's an injury, and that's pretty sad.

There should be a constant stream of both position and pitchers ready yearly, to at the bare minimum, come up and fill a bench slot adequately. Pitchers were able to fulfill that task this year, position players have not been able to do this.

DickAllen72

08-09-2012, 09:28 PM

How about calling up Conor Jackson? Olmedo can cover backing up middle infield and Conor can backup 1st and 3rd.

Noneck

08-09-2012, 09:32 PM

How about calling up Conor Jackson? Olmedo can cover backing up middle infield and Conor can backup 1st and 3rd.

How often has Jackson played 3rd recently?

PalehosePlanet

08-09-2012, 09:48 PM

Indeed, he is out of options. I think he's been designated for assignment more than once in his career. The Rays were able to keep him in their organization because he cleared waivers and was willing to accept assignment(s) to AAA.

Dan Johnson turns 33 tomorrow, I'm guessing he's been out of options for a very long time. If he were to come up and suck for a few days, my guess is he would be released almost immediately.

That being said, he's OPS'ing .907 down at Charlotte and we have nothing else. Maybe he can help for a week or two; it's worth a shot if Paulie is out and/or we can't acquire anything better.

Aesero

08-10-2012, 02:10 AM

Actually, I believe the pinch-hit HR was against the Yankees with two outs in the ninth that game where the Rays rallied to make the playoffs on the final day of the season.

This is what I was referring to. As it stands we have no one on the bench who can hit for power. Pretty much what you hope for with our pinch hitters is that they can come in, hit a single, and then maybe someone else can drive them in. Flowers doesn't count.

I never meant to imply that he's some savior or a great player, but he is a left handed bat capable of hitting a homerun. He's also been doing pretty well in AAA. Given the option of having either Hudson or him coming off the bench, I'd much rather have Johnson.

Foulke You

08-10-2012, 03:21 PM

Other than that, we're on the same side in this debate. I suppose Dan Johnson could help the Sox, but I wouldn't bank on it. He's never been good at the MLB level.
He's also never been fully healthy at the MLB level. This year, he seems to be finally 100% healthy. The guy has some of the worst luck I've ever seen in the injury department. Eye problems, hip labrum issues, wrist problems, etc. and some of them under weird circumstances like getting plunked by Matt Capps or getting sprayed in the eye with sunblock spray. The details of Dan Johnson's injury plagued career are detailed here in this interesting article:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/mlb/137218423.html?refer=y

The truth is, we may never know what kind of player Dan Johnson could have been if he stayed healthy his whole career. It's not unreasonable to think that a fully healthy Dan Johnson is now reaching the potential he once had. The other side of the coin is that he is just having a career year down there. Regardless of why he is hitting this year, the bottom line is that he is hitting and I think he might be able to help this team. He likely can handle the bat better than Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers, or Olmedo. He also has a very solid .396 OBP to go along with his other solid offensive numbers. On a weak bench like ours, it might be worth giving him a shot. Whether we see him soon or on September 1st when rosters expand, it is likely we will find out this year if he has any value.

Chicago White Sox
Ventura says Paul Konerko is still being checked out and should know something before tonight's game.

Chuck Garfien
Ventura says Konerko's nausea is not as bad as it was on Wednesday. If he goes on 7-day DL it's not retroactive.

Lip Man 1

08-10-2012, 05:11 PM

This and that:

A's catch another break...Konerko not in lineup tonight.

Can someone tell me how Konerko got hit in the head Tuesday? Was it a rundown, was their a collision at first base on a throw?

Lip

#1swisher

08-10-2012, 05:24 PM

This and that:

A's catch another break...Konerko not in lineup tonight.

Can someone tell me how Konerko got hit in the head Tuesday? Was it a rundown, was their a collision at first base on a throw?

Lip

Adam Hoge has the details
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/08/konerko-suffering-from-mild-concussion/

8/7 gameday thread (http://www.whitesoxinteractive.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=135455&page=5)
Dyson caught PK in the head, over his right eye with his elbow, running out a grounder to Beckham. Paulie stayed in the game.

MLB Gameday - top of the 7th
http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index.jsp?gid=2012_08_10_oakmlb_chamlb_1&mode=preview&c_id=cws#gid=2012_08_07_kcamlb_chamlb_1&mode=plays

He's also never been fully healthy at the MLB level. This year, he seems to be finally 100% healthy. The guy has some of the worst luck I've ever seen in the injury department. Eye problems, hip labrum issues, wrist problems, etc. and some of them under weird circumstances like getting plunked by Matt Capps or getting sprayed in the eye with sunblock spray. The details of Dan Johnson's injury plagued career are detailed here in this interesting article:

http://www.startribune.com/sports/twins/mlb/137218423.html?refer=y

The truth is, we may never know what kind of player Dan Johnson could have been if he stayed healthy his whole career. It's not unreasonable to think that a fully healthy Dan Johnson is now reaching the potential he once had. The other side of the coin is that he is just having a career year down there. Regardless of why he is hitting this year, the bottom line is that he is hitting and I think he might be able to help this team. He likely can handle the bat better than Jordan Danks, Tyler Flowers, or Olmedo. He also has a very solid .396 OBP to go along with his other solid offensive numbers. On a weak bench like ours, it might be worth giving him a shot. Whether we see him soon or on September 1st when rosters expand, it is likely we will find out this year if he has any value.

Our bench is so bad that I'm not against giving him a try. All I'm saying is he has no track record of success as a MLB pinch hitter, which would be his role if the Sox were to add him to the roster. So, any contributions he might make to the team will be a nice surprise from my perspective. I wouldn't expect much.

Lip Man 1

08-10-2012, 06:29 PM

I wish I could see the play, I don't understand how a guy can throw an elbow at another guy's head and not get ejected unless a wild throw or something caused Konerko to get in his way and he was trying to protect himself (i.e. bringing up his arms / elbows to create a barrier...)

That's what I'm asking.

Just another ****ty break for the Sox.

Typical.

Lip

Paulwny

08-10-2012, 06:35 PM

I wish I could see the play, I don't understand how a guy can throw an elbow at another guy's head and not get ejected unless a wild throw or something caused Konerko to get in his way and he was trying to protect himself (i.e. bringing up his arms / elbows to create a barrier...)

That's what I'm asking.

Just another ****ty break for the Sox.

Typical.

Lip

You need to see the play, it wasn't deliberate.

CHISOXFAN13

08-10-2012, 09:34 PM

I wish I could see the play, I don't understand how a guy can throw an elbow at another guy's head and not get ejected unless a wild throw or something caused Konerko to get in his way and he was trying to protect himself (i.e. bringing up his arms / elbows to create a barrier...)

That's what I'm asking.

Just another ****ty break for the Sox.

Typical.

Lip

He basically ran into the elbow. There was no intent at all.

voodoochile

08-10-2012, 09:51 PM

He basically ran into the elbow. There was no intent at all.

Yeah, if anything the runner was trying to get away from PK by turning to the outside and he clipped PK as his momentum brought him toward foul ground. No way this was intentional. Not even sure it was an elbow if anything it was a shoulder.

Noneck

08-10-2012, 10:22 PM

Wise, Jackson and Johnson still playing in an extra inning game for Charlotte. Doubt any of them will be called up.

DonnieDarko

08-10-2012, 10:31 PM

Wise, Jackson and Johnson still playing in an extra inning game for Charlotte. Doubt any of them will be called up.

I think that all things considered, Dan Johnson makes the most sense out of what we have in the minors. *shrug*

Noneck

08-10-2012, 10:34 PM

I think that all things considered, Dan Johnson makes the most sense out of what we have in the minors. *shrug*

I still say they have to be working on a deal.

Tragg

08-10-2012, 10:38 PM

Wise, Jackson and Johnson still playing in an extra inning game for Charlotte. Doubt any of them will be called up.

Career ML OPS:
Jackson 757
Johnson 739
Wise 639
And for good measure, as he's available
Cintron 707

Noneck

08-10-2012, 10:43 PM

Career ML OPS:
Jackson 757
Johnson 739
Wise 639
And for good measure, as he's available
Cintron 707

Im not promoting any of the above, I thought Wise would have the most use of the above but after tonight maybe not. I want them to go to waiver wire and get a proven player and if you have to lay out some cash, so be it.

fisk4ever

08-10-2012, 10:43 PM

I wish I could see the play, I don't understand how a guy can throw an elbow at another guy's head and not get ejected unless a wild throw or something caused Konerko to get in his way and he was trying to protect himself (i.e. bringing up his arms / elbows to create a barrier...)

Lip

Having trouble with the link, but you can see the play on the Sox' official site. There is a headline, "Mild concussion lands Konerko on seven-day DL" which has a link, "Konerko takes an elbow to the head". http://chicago.whitesox.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20120810&content_id=36464358&vkey=news_cws&c_id=cws

Tragg

08-10-2012, 10:54 PM

Im not promoting any of the above, I thought Wise would have the most use of the above but after tonight maybe not. I want them to go to waiver wire and get a proven player and if you have to lay out some cash, so be it.

Wise is not a particularly good defender (despite the MB saver) and he can't get on base. When he does manage to get a hit, it's often for extra bases. But it's just ridiculously rare. And he never walks (3.5% walk rate).

Johnson and Jackson actually had credible ML careers as simply below average, but not awful, hitters.

Lip Man 1

08-10-2012, 10:58 PM

Thanks gang. I just have to see this because I'm having a hard time visualizing a left elbow hitting Konerko on the right side...(left side I could understand)

Guess it was his elbow. TV angle didn't show PK that low. Was wondering how he got hit that hard.

Chez

08-11-2012, 07:26 AM

Rongey said on the post-game show that unlike the 15 and 60 day DL's, the 7 day DL does not have a retroactive feature. So Paulie is out till next Friday -- even though he didn't play Wednesday. We're in a pennant race -- you have to bring up your best option. And if you lose the guy (e.g. Johnson) afterwards because he's out of options, so be it. This situation is precisely why you sign guys like Dan Johnson and Dallas McPherson (waived a week ago) for your minor league team -- to have someone available for a short term emergency. Dan Johnson doesn't figure in the team's long range plans and if you're hanging on to him just for a September call-up, what was the point in signing him in the first place? So the fact that we may lose him after a week shouldn't be a reason to not bring him up. Plus, he may stick around after Konerko comes back (no guarantee Paulie will be ready in a week -- see Morneau, J) and force KW to re-shuffle the bench.

dickallen15

08-11-2012, 09:40 AM

I think that all things considered, Dan Johnson makes the most sense out of what we have in the minors. *shrug*
Considering his post 2007 mlb numbers, I hope not. It appears DWise is getting the call.

palehosepub

08-11-2012, 02:47 PM

heres s big surprise Brian Bruney is being called up - wonder if relates to another move?

palehosepub

08-11-2012, 02:48 PM

and Wise is being brought up

DickAllen72

08-14-2012, 10:03 PM

I still say they have to be working on a deal.
I heard the Sox signed Jose Lopez and assigned him to Charlotte. If true, maybe we'll see him up as a backup infielder soon.

PorkChopExpress

08-16-2012, 10:44 AM

Any word on Hudson?

TheOldRoman

08-16-2012, 10:48 AM

Any word on Hudson?They mentioned during the broadcast that it was a bruise and not a break, so that's good. Still no word on how long he will be out, but bone bruises are a bitch. I imagine they will DL him Saturday, not retroactive to today, so he would still be on the DL September 1. That way he would be eligible for the playoff roster, as would whoever is called up to replace him (likely Jose Lopez).

Orlando Hudson (toe) was still in discomfort on Thursday and had his foot wrapped, MLB.com reports. White Sox manager Robin Ventura said about the switch-hitter. "Not going to run too much. He's pretty sore, I would imagine I can't use him tonight."

Chez

08-17-2012, 12:03 PM

They mentioned during the broadcast that it was a bruise and not a break, so that's good. Still no word on how long he will be out, but bone bruises are a bitch. I imagine they will DL him Saturday, not retroactive to today, so he would still be on the DL September 1. That way he would be eligible for the playoff roster, as would whoever is called up to replace him (likely Jose Lopez).

I agree with your plan, but retroactivity wouldn't be an issue. Just because a player is eligible to come off the DL, doesn't mean the team has to activate him the day he is eligible.

salty99

08-17-2012, 01:28 PM

Hudson and Septimo to the DL. Konerko and Santiago are back.

thomas35forever

08-17-2012, 01:31 PM

I'm fine with all of this. Now let's see the Paulie from the beginning of the year.

I heard something on the interwebs/twitterverse shooting that notion down the last day or so.

From what I understand, he'll miss the Tigers series, but is not done for the year.

DickAllen72

09-10-2012, 05:40 PM

Source?
I have a friend who works at the SCORE. :tongue:

But seriously, a poster at Soxtalk said he heard that reported on MLB Network yesterday. Another poster reported that Robin Ventura's current plan is to have him sit out at least the next five games.

And the Tribune had an article reporting Dunn said that swinging is terrible and feels like a hot knife. He said that "It gets to the point where it makes you mad because you sneeze and you're doubled over. It feels like you just ripped it in half and it just makes you mad."

Lip Man 1

09-11-2012, 11:45 AM

Ventura is quoted by Gonzo as saying that Dunn had an MRI and that "it's not clean, something's going on..."

Robin then added that it basically was "up to the player" to decide if he can go or not.

Don't know about muscle strains but that sounds like a possible tear or broken rib.

At least Dunn won't be setting the strikeout record (of course he won't be playing either at this crucial juncture...)

Lip

Noneck

09-11-2012, 11:51 AM

D. Wise in the 3 hole for a playoff drive , who would have ever thunk that?

kittle42

09-11-2012, 11:57 AM

D. Wise in the 3 hole for a playoff drive , who would have ever thunk that?

It still sucks.

Noneck

09-11-2012, 11:58 AM

It still sucks.

Indeed

Paulwny

09-11-2012, 12:04 PM

D. Wise in the 3 hole for a playoff drive , who would have ever thunk that?

It still sucks.

I'd put Wise in the 2 hole and bat Yuk 3rd. Yuk might see better pitches with Konerko as his protection.

Noneck

09-11-2012, 12:10 PM

I'd put Wise in the 2 hole and bat Yuk 3rd. Yuk might see better pitches with Konerko as his protection.

Well the reason the Sox first got Thome and now Dunn was because they wanted LH power in the 3 slot. This year they have a LH power hitter behind the plate, put him in the 3 hole.

Paulwny

09-11-2012, 12:38 PM

Well the reason the Sox first got Thome and now Dunn was because they wanted LH power in the 3 slot. This year they have a LH power hitter behind the plate, put him in the 3 hole.

I like your idea better than mine.

Nellie_Fox

09-11-2012, 01:23 PM

Well the reason the Sox first got Thome and now Dunn was because they wanted LH power in the 3 slot. This year they have a LH power hitter behind the plate, put him in the 3 hole.That starts a reshuffle of the whole lineup, which is apparently what they're trying to avoid. I don't really have an opinion as to whether they're right or wrong, but they want to keep everybody in their same slots until Dunn returns.

Noneck

09-11-2012, 01:57 PM

That starts a reshuffle of the whole lineup, which is apparently what they're trying to avoid. I don't really have an opinion as to whether they're right or wrong, but they want to keep everybody in their same slots until Dunn returns.

Wise has batted 3rd only the last 2 games, its not like they are adjusting a lineup that has been set for a long period of time.

DSpivack

09-11-2012, 02:01 PM

That starts a reshuffle of the whole lineup, which is apparently what they're trying to avoid. I don't really have an opinion as to whether they're right or wrong, but they want to keep everybody in their same slots until Dunn returns.

Yeah, I don't really know what to think here, other than I hope to see a White Sox victory. Wise's bat has actually been decent in this stint with the Sox, which has been a nice if temporary surprise. I don't like him batting third, but I hope Dunn gets back soon. If anything I do like having Wise in LF and Viciedo at DH, to improve an already strong defense.

Moses_Scurry

09-11-2012, 02:02 PM

Apparently Dunn may be done for the season.

Tdog's dream will finally come true!

I think Dunn is one player whose absence wouldn't be that devastating.

DSpivack

09-11-2012, 02:05 PM

Tdog's dream will finally come true!

I think Dunn is one player whose absence wouldn't be that devastating.

He's 4th on the team in OBP, 4th in slugging, 4th in OPS, and 1st in HRs and RsBI. It'd be a pretty big loss.

Wise has been good in his brief current stint with the Sox, but relying on him to keep up the numbers he has posted thus far (.287/.333/.465) seems an unlikely proposition.

shingo10

09-11-2012, 02:19 PM

If Dunn is done for the year then that is a huge blow. I know that's an obvious statement but man, not good news to hear. I really hope he can come back and help us. In the meantime I'm surprised Tank isn't hitting 3rd but I guess he doesn't really work pitchers the way Wise does (can't believe I'm typing that)

kittle42

09-11-2012, 02:25 PM

I think Dunn is one player whose absence wouldn't be that devastating.

Given the replacements, it's especially bad.

Moses_Scurry

09-11-2012, 02:29 PM

Dunn during a hot streak would be horrible to lose. Dunn during a slump?

kittle42

09-11-2012, 02:43 PM

Dunn during a hot streak would be horrible to lose. Dunn during a slump?

Isn't that true of any streaky player?

doublem23

09-11-2012, 02:53 PM

Isn't that true of any streaky player?

Or really, every player in baseball history?

I mean, ****, even Dewayne Wise had about a week or so there were he was playing like an All-Star.

kittle42

09-11-2012, 03:09 PM

Or really, every player in baseball history?

I mean, ****, even Dewayne Wise had about a week or so there were he was playing like an All-Star.

Yup.

Find me the manager who can either predict when his players will be hot or only plays hot players and benches slumpers on a consistent basis, and I'll find you the best manager in baseball history. He doesn't exist.

Nellie_Fox

09-11-2012, 03:36 PM

Wise has batted 3rd only the last 2 games, its not like they are adjusting a lineup that has been set for a long period of time.
You missed the point. What Robin has been doing is plugging the replacement player into the three hole, rather than moving one of the every-day players out of his accustomed spot in the lineup to the three, then moving other guys to account for that movement, and so on. All he did was replace Dunn with a bench guy every day, leaving everybody else where they had been.

If it's true that Dunn is through for the year, he may reconsider shuffling the lineup. And for those who are pointing out what a huge loss Dunn is due to OPS, RBI, etc., take a look at his month by month splits. He was heading seriously downhill as the season progressed. His August numbers were terrible.

kobo

09-11-2012, 03:44 PM

You missed the point. What Robin has been doing is plugging the replacement player into the three hole, rather than moving one of the every-day players out of his accustomed spot in the lineup to the three, then moving other guys to account for that movement, and so on. All he did was replace Dunn with a bench guy every day, leaving everybody else where they had been.

If it's true that Dunn is through for the year, he may reconsider shuffling the lineup. And for those who are pointing out what a huge loss Dunn is due to OPS, RBI, etc., take a look at his month by month splits. He was heading seriously downhill as the season progressed. His August numbers were terrible.
Which to me indicates he has been hurt for a while now and was playing through the pain.

Noneck

09-11-2012, 04:01 PM

If it's true that Dunn is through for the year, he may reconsider shuffling the lineup. And for those who are pointing out what a huge loss Dunn is due to OPS, RBI, etc., take a look at his month by month splits. He was heading seriously downhill as the season progressed. His August numbers were terrible.

My assumption is that Dunn is out for the year, I only mentioned Wise in the 3 slot after reading that Dunns mri was not clear. And yes I know what happens when one assumes.

Dan Hayes
Dunn definitely better. Baseball activities have increased, but he's still not to point of taking outdoor BP. #WhiteSox (https://twitter.com/search/?src=hash&q=%23WhiteSox) cautious.

Nellie_Fox

09-11-2012, 11:41 PM

Which to me indicates he has been hurt for a while now and was playing through the pain.They know exactly which checked swing he hurt himself on. His July numbers were bad, his August numbers were terrible. It wasn't because of this injury.

#1swisher

09-12-2012, 04:31 PM

Dan Hayes
Adam Dunn tried to hit 2x but hasn't seen enough progress w/ oblique to play. Ventura said was same as Tues & "not worth having him go."

Chuck Garfien
Adam Dunn says his oblique "feels fine" but then when he tries to swing "it kind of grabs you."

Dunn on his oblique: "I'm afraid that if I swing and miss I could rip it off." Says if he re-injures it again "I'm done."

Don Cooper quote regarding Danks surgery. I did not know there is a chance that Danks might not be able to pitch next season:

"I believe (Johan) Santana had the same surgery (at the end of 2010), and he wasn't able to compete (in 2011)," pitching coach Don Cooper said. "We are going to have to stay on top of that and keep an eye on."

LoveYourSuit

10-03-2012, 09:06 AM

Don Cooper quote regarding Danks surgery. I did not know there is a chance that Danks might not be able to pitch next season:

"I believe (Johan) Santana had the same surgery (at the end of 2010), and he wasn't able to compete (in 2011)," pitching coach Don Cooper said. "We are going to have to stay on top of that and keep an eye on."

More exciting news from the south side!

SCCWS

10-03-2012, 09:36 AM

More exciting news from the south side!

If the Dr cleared him to start throwing November 1st, he should be ready by spring training. Obviously Santana having surgery late in 2010 meant he couldn't pitch in 2011.