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I think the mayors words are a bit confusing here. I didn't think he means they have to approach us for a RFP, but their approach in dealing with us would have to be respectful, I guess as opposed to demanding too much. There is an upcoming election, so I suspect the mayor doesn't want to be accused of giving away too much, so hence the cautious comment. I don't know if it really means that much more than that though.

perhaps... but the tone still makes no sense to me, election or not. nenshi's tone was on the other end of the scale and he's facing the same election date. i think part of my frustration is that a mayor's comments in situations like this are pretty much irrelevant to a party like amazon, particularly when they're being given to the press and not to amazon. they are however, pretty relevant to edmontonians and how we perceive our city and our potential.

nenshi took the opportunity to reinforce to calgarians many of the things that are still great about their city despite the current downturn (including direct air connections to seattle ). those things that were obliquely referenced in that "innovation corridor" need to front and centre and we need to beat ourselves up with them over and over until we recognize there value and hearing about them doesn't surprise us.

as for giving away too much, i'm not sure there would ever be a too much here. what amazon is proposing in terms of infrastructure investment with their own capital and with their own reputation is on the far end of the scale when compared to what convergys bought and brought.

we invested half a billion in the arena and have already seen that investment pay off handsomely despite those who still say we gave away too much. how can there be too much in the way of tax concessions if we're talking about giving them the northlands site as an example? the city receives no direct taxes from that site now and isn't likely to for the foreseeable future so continuing to receive nothing isn't really that big of a concession is it? compare that with the hotel rooms that would go up around them or compare that with the employment they would bring and the taxes their employees would pay on their incomes and their homes and through the businesses they would support and add the education dollars they would drive and the added airline connections they would bring etc. etc. etc.

I'd say include the Northlands site including a repurposed coliseum. (Any loss of functionality could be re-created somewhere else in the city.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that we can provide near unlimited cooling for part of the year, free of charge. As they automate more and more over time I'd guess that the cooling costs might be a significant cost factor until technology reduces that need.

Also I believe I saw mention of security of supply electricity. That could be largely renewable (we have long hours of sunshine) but fully backstopped via natural gas supply. The current planned move away from coal could also be an opportunity to size and plan replacement generation according to their needs.

I would give them Blatchford or Northlands and all the tax breaks they need. This would be a massage game changer for Edmonton. In my fantasy world, I wish I could give them every empty lot between 105st and 108st north of Jasper Ave up to 103ave.
I don't realistically think we have a chance, but I would throw everything at them just in case.

Northlands is an interesting idea. I could get behind offering land there for development, but offering them the whole shebang would be unwise. If we were to offer them northlands then I would have the city service it, build the streets, and then offer the land on a low-cost least as they are ready to build - and make other portions of the land available on the same terms to other companies.

In reality, though, I don't think Amazon is really looking for a suburban campus, and wherever they go it will be to a downtown or downtown fringe.

why not lease them northlands for the same deal northlands had it? no actual loss to the city going forward from what they have received in the past. the lease could be subject to minimum levels of additional improvements being completed or the landlord gets to terminate portions of the lease. never mind making use of the coliseum, they may even be able to make use of the expo centre (which could be excluded if they don't want it) and if they do those monies could be put toward the expansion of shaw instead of having shaw operate a "split" convention centre (which is still drastically better than two entities operating competing facilities).

^ I think the realistic scenario is that there will be a bidding war. We can play "no deals" but that will simply mean "no deal". I'm sure we can come up with a good incentive, but my primary concern would be the flights. Unless the city and EIA can negotiate an agreement with airlines to provide the flights that are part of the RFP, Edmonton is out of the running.

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction" - Blaise Pascal

I think the mayors words are a bit confusing here. I didn't think he means they have to approach us for a RFP, but their approach in dealing with us would have to be respectful, I guess as opposed to demanding too much. There is an upcoming election, so I suspect the mayor doesn't want to be accused of giving away too much, so hence the cautious comment. I don't know if it really means that much more than that though.

perhaps... but the tone still makes no sense to me, election or not. nenshi's tone was on the other end of the scale and he's facing the same election date. i think part of my frustration is that a mayor's comments in situations like this are pretty much irrelevant to a party like amazon, particularly when they're being given to the press and not to amazon. they are however, pretty relevant to edmontonians and how we perceive our city and our potential.

nenshi took the opportunity to reinforce to calgarians many of the things that are still great about their city despite the current downturn (including direct air connections to seattle ). those things that were obliquely referenced in that "innovation corridor" need to front and centre and we need to beat ourselves up with them over and over until we recognize there value and hearing about them doesn't surprise us.

as for giving away too much, i'm not sure there would ever be a too much here. what amazon is proposing in terms of infrastructure investment with their own capital and with their own reputation is on the far end of the scale when compared to what convergys bought and brought.

we invested half a billion in the arena and have already seen that investment pay off handsomely despite those who still say we gave away too much. how can there be too much in the way of tax concessions if we're talking about giving them the northlands site as an example? the city receives no direct taxes from that site now and isn't likely to for the foreseeable future so continuing to receive nothing isn't really that big of a concession is it? compare that with the hotel rooms that would go up around them or compare that with the employment they would bring and the taxes their employees would pay on their incomes and their homes and through the businesses they would support and add the education dollars they would drive and the added airline connections they would bring etc. etc. etc.

I'd say include the Northlands site including a repurposed coliseum. (Any loss of functionality could be re-created somewhere else in the city.

Has anyone mentioned the fact that we can provide near unlimited cooling for part of the year, free of charge. As they automate more and more over time I'd guess that the cooling costs might be a significant cost factor until technology reduces that need.

Also I believe I saw mention of security of supply electricity. That could be largely renewable (we have long hours of sunshine) but fully backstopped via natural gas supply. The current planned move away from coal could also be an opportunity to size and plan replacement generation according to their needs.

I think Nenshi's tone is a bit different as downtown Calgary has a huge number of vacant spaces they are desperately trying to fill. It is also messing with their property tax valuation system, the decreased valuation downtown is causing big increases in taxes suburban areas so it is a big political problem there too. Nenshi is apparently more popular in Edmonton than in Calgary now, whereas our mayor doesn't seem to be have any credible opponents so he can take a more measured response.

I think the most important thing is to submit a proposal and see where it goes. Amazon doesn't care much about what the mayors say or their tone.

While James Thompson, the former Amazon employee interviewed for the Star article, used to work for Amazon he was in middle management and not an executive so who's to say what Amazon's strategic objectives might be (i.e. how important would factors such as nationalism be, immigration policies, geographic locale). Clearly high on their priority list is a sweetheart deal whether it be free land or tax concessions. That is one area where American cities would probably have an advantage in offering a business friendly environment. Obtaining and retaining talent would also be a first or second priority. As for ease of air travel, several thousand employees paying top fare (whether it be economy or business class) to fly on a regular basis would be an incentive for any carrier to adjust their business plans and routes.

Edmonton would have an advantage in terms of cost of living to be sure, the availability of land to building housing that is affordable. One of biggest hurdle would be marketing the city to outsiders as a center of culture and entertainment. That would be something that Toronto would have have an advantage (3 profession sports teams, theater, TIFF etc) as would its proximity to the UofT, Waterloo and all the other universities in the region, plus a major airport hub.

No harm in trying though, this is an exercise that any city looking to engage in the "New Economy" should participate in, it's an ongoing priority.

Also I believe I saw mention of security of supply electricity. That could be largely renewable (we have long hours of sunshine) but fully backstopped via natural gas supply. The current planned move away from coal could also be an opportunity to size and plan replacement generation according to their needs.

Plus, when I was asking where the new solar/wind plants were going on this unnecessary line...I was told there wasn't any. So, since this line destroys about 160+ acres of my land for anything organic or residential...I offered up the land for a solar farm. It is south facing, has the slope naturally in the right direction, and would be immediately adjacent this new line. The province, ATCO, and others laughed at me and said this was not worth it... Yup...plenty of sunshine...blown right up our *AHEM*

Sorry to digress...but if we are going to push renewables, and the government just invested 1.6B into an unnecessary line to connect hydrocarbons to the grid...well...if we push renewables...then we'd better deliver. Our track record is abysmal...and Amazon will see right through it...

This is a case of Amazon trying to get the various cities/states/ to bid against each other in order to get the best possible deal knowing full well there are only 2 or 3 candidates they would actually consider. This is Amazon we are talking about, not the Red Cross.

This bid will be extremely high profile. All Edmonton needs to do is show that they tick the boxes. Other corporations will be paying close attention to this, and if they are looking to set up a Canadian HQ, they'll see Edmonton as a legitimate option. This could be one of the most effective marketing campaigns that EEDC can engage in.

This bid will be extremely high profile. All Edmonton needs to do is show that they tick the boxes. Other corporations will be paying close attention to this, and if they are looking to set up a Canadian HQ, they'll see Edmonton as a legitimate option. This could be one of the most effective marketing campaigns that EEDC can engage in.

Agreed. While it's not 'free' marketing, it is pretty low cost in that they wouldn't have to send delegations to hundreds of other companies extolling the virtues of YEG.

Good thing we have good immigration policy, because we sure aren't pumping out massive amounts of software engineers.

This is probably one of those, ask for more information RFP's where you end up being disappointed in the information you receive. The category percentages of workforce requirements would be what I would want to know. Also, while Edmonton is connected by Fiber, I wouldn't say we are well connected. For me, that is the one red flag that jumps out. Others have pointed out that we are the most northern city in North America and that is problematic from a connectivity perspective. If a fiber connection is spliced outgoing from Edmonton, that would be a large problem. I'm not a network engineer, but I believe we connect west coast through Vancouver and east through Toronto/Chicago. I don't know if we route through Calgary or how we connect out east. Given that building that infrastructure isn't cheap, I would imagine a company such as Amazon wanting something with a more robust backbone than Edmonton can offer, unfortunately.

^Speaking of immigration, TEC Edmonton has a relationship with Tsinghua University's business incubator, which is unique in Canada. Tsinghua University's Comp Sci program is highly regarded, up there with MIT. It could be a pipeline for Chinese talent. Definitely something to advertise and even if Amazon does't work out, might be interesting to other firms.

My point being, is that if we want to be taken seriously, our work starts at home. I love Edmonton and would be thrilled if Amazon chose us, but the reality is we have lots of work to do to regain our image and self-pride that imo has steadily deteriorated since the mid eighties.

Ken I am well aware of US homicide rates being much higher than those in Canada. My point being if they choose to locate in Canada, Edmonton may not be their first choice due to perception (right or wrong) that this city is a cold industrial city with not much to offer their workers and having the highest homicide rate in the country. Again the point I am trying to make is that we can blame the media all we want but if we as a city are not going to do what's needed to fix our image problem and our obvious homicide problem then lets stop complaining about the fact that we can't attract any corporation to relocate and can't stop those that have relocated and those that will continue to relocate.

Why the snarky comment? Obviously there is no easy answer as many police chiefs and mayors have tried various solutions. So I guess then according to you we should just give up and accept the fact that it will always be this way?

Unless people are randomly getting gunned down in the middle of the street or are targeting white collar professionals (and is not mostly due to drug gangs taking each other out), the murder rate is highly irrelevant for these type of decisions. Toronto's got a high murder count (last one I heard was a realtor gunned down inside a busy restaurant) and yet they are regarded as one of the front runners for Amazon HQ2.

That said, it is true that the local media and the provincial-minded hicks who embody a good chunk of it don't do us any favors with their sensationalist, negative portrayals of the city.

That's why we employ guys like Brad Ferguson to promote this city to the business world.

And I cannot stress this enough - that's why it is vital that they sell Amazon on Edmonton's virtues even if there's little chance of winning HQ2 because that could lead other opportunities with them down the road.

“You have to dream big. If we want to be a little city, we dream small. If we want to be a big city, we dream big, and this is a big idea.” - Mayor Stephen Mandel, 02/22/2012

Unless people are randomly getting gunned down in the middle of the street or are targeting white collar professionals (and is not mostly due to drug gangs taking each other out), the murder rate is highly irrelevant for these type of decisions. Toronto's got a high murder count (last one I heard was a realtor gunned down inside a busy restaurant) and yet they are regarded as one of the front runners for Amazon HQ2.

That said, it is true that the local media and the provincial-minded hicks who embody a good chunk of it don't do us any favors with their sensationalist, negative portrayals of the city.

That's why we employ guys like Brad Ferguson to promote this city to the business world.

And I cannot stress this enough - that's why it is vital that they sell Amazon on Edmonton's virtues even if there's little chance of winning HQ2 because that could lead other opportunities with them down the road.

I doubt those decisions are made on the basis of a newspaper headline. If Amazon wanted to do it that way they would have just read all the local newspapers instead of asking for a request for proposals.

Every city has its pluses and minuses - some other places are "rainy, earthquake and tsunami prone with high housing prices". Now that pithy type of headline style description doesn't sound so great either.

While this is a serious problem we need to do more about, I don't get the feeling that most Edmontonians perceive our city to be as dangerous as some of the newspaper headlines portray.

I support 100% that we need to try make our city safer, but it really has nothing to do with Amazon. We need to do it for ourselves.

I doubt those decisions are made on the basis of a newspaper headline. If Amazon wanted to do it that way they would have just read all the local newspapers instead of asking for a request for proposals.

Every city has its pluses and minuses - some other places are "rainy, earthquake and tsunami prone with high housing prices". Now that pithy type of headline style description doesn't sound so great either.

While this is a serious problem we need to do more about, I don't get the feeling that most Edmontonians perceive our city to be as dangerous as some of the newspaper headlines portray.

I support 100% that we need to try make our city safer, but it really has nothing to do with Amazon. We need to do it for ourselves.

I agree that we should do it for ourselves but obviously that motivation by itself has not resulted in any significant action. I would also agree that we perceive ourselves as a relatively safe city, but outside of Edmonton the view is not the same and is only reinforced by headlines such as this that we cannot dispute as the facts speak for themselves. Of course Amazon is not going to make a decision based on one headline but the negative national publicity that we seem to attract as a city far outweighs the positive imo.

^fix the crime rate and Amazon will come.... Actually, probably not. There were some suggestions the highest two rated cities are Denver and Calgary, if that happened it would match my suggestion that the executives are skiiers. I don't think it will be either City though. I would bet on Dallas, or Boston.

^Yup, all the 'third party' people who think Calgary are in the running are not connected to Amazon. The 'third parties' are just spinning their wheels. They think if they think positive it will come true.

"The man who does not read has no advantage over the man who cannot read." –Mark Twain

Why the snarky comment? Obviously there is no easy answer as many police chiefs and mayors have tried various solutions. So I guess then according to you we should just give up and accept the fact that it will always be this way?

The homocide problem is not something the city can fix. Do you want to start banning people who you think might become murderers or victims from the city?