Michael B. shot this clean 1978 Monaco SE sedan for sale in North Carolina, and passed them along to me to write up. How could I pass up that opportunity, as these midi-fuselages have become quite rare, especially in civilian trim. I shot and wrote up an ex-cop car Plymouth Fury of the same vintage, and I rather suspect a very healthy percentage of the 20k 1978 Dodge Monaco four door sedans built went into fleet and police duty. 1978 was a very dark year for Dodge.

To put that in perspective, ponder this: the Monaco was the biggest sedan Dodge offered in 1978, in that awkward year after the moribund LeSabre-wanna-be Royal Monaco disappeared, and before the doomed St. Regis appeared. It was going up against the one year old Chevrolet Caprice and Impala (and other GM B-Bodies), and the results were predictable: 47k Monacos (coupes and sedans) sold vs. 613k of the Chevys alone.

For that matter, the whole Dodge Division moved only some 460k passenger cars in 1978; substantially less than just those Impalas and Caprices. Needless to say, the St. Regis might as well have not bothered to show up in 1979.

Looking (once again) like a Buick LeSabre wanna-be, the St. Regis and its R-Body sister Plymouth Gran Fury were unmitigated sales disasters. In the St. Regis big intro year, it managed 35k sales; then it dropped to just 17k in 1980, and a mere 5,388 in 1981, before they were euthanized. Undoubtedly most of those ended up in police work too. Now where are the shots for one of those, Cohort? I sure haven’t seen one curbside hereabouts.

Needless to say, these midi-fuselages didn’t change much in their eight-year run. The dash looks slightly different than my Mom’s ’73 Coronet, but it all looks pretty familiar. And dull.

But this one’s interior looks to be in very good shape. The odometer shows 12,577 miles, but it’s turned over once already. Interested? The phone number is 704-795-8257. If it’s already gone, blame Van Week. Michael sent me these shots shortly before.

For what it’s worth, I’d certainly take one of these over a similar year midi-mega Ford. But you all know how I feel about those. This Dodge won’t ride nearly as jet-puffed softly as a Grandiose Torino, an Ultra Elite or whatever other names Ford kept calling them. But there’s something direct and almost honest about these Coronet/Monacos, an image certainly burnished by their ubiquity in police tv shows, as well as in real life.

That’s the face of my CHP nemesis during my speeding days in California, in those wonderful pre-radar days. I could spot this front end three miles away; or so it seemed. But having a 440 powered Monaco incoming at six o’clock (is that right?) with its little single red light on the cowl flashing was the face of doom.

This one started its well-preserved life in Florida, which explains a few things. Someone’s last car, undoubtedly. Who else bought a Monaco in 1978? And who’ll buy it now? It’s not likely that another clean 1978 Monaco will come along again soon.

If you wanted one badly enough and had the cash, I’m sure there was a dealer somewhere who would have gotten you that 440.

Frank

Posted June 22, 2014 at 10:20 AM

I worked for a Dealer at this time and I doubt anyone would order something like that for anyone. (and it wasn’t available regardless) Back in the day, unless someone paid up cash up front in full, no dealer in their right mind would have bought that for fear of the deal canceling out and the car stuck on the lot. I worked for the largest Dodge Dealer in New England, and we sold about 20 Sedans, we sold way more coupes. We had left over Monacos from 1977 into 1978 and then left over 78 Monacos well into 1979 still on the lot. We were pushing the Omni and Aspen big time….no way in the world would we have ordered a Custom one off Monaco. I saw only one 440 which came in from the State Police for service and that was 77, not 78

I was at a swap meet a few years ago and someone was selling a Coronet with the 400 4bbl. I can’t remember whether it was a newer model with Lean Burn or an older one. It would have made a great “sleeper”. The guy was selling it for a deceased relative. It had been parked outdoors but well tended to over the years, so it was in pretty decent condition.

Ya know, the 318 in the cop version wasn’t that bad! I had a ’78 x-rcmp Fury with the 318, the full TJ Hooker ensemble. It was a cool car! Silver ( ghost car), with the black buckets, rubber mats, first gear lockout and all the hooha…This car wailed! Don’t know why, but dammit, it really went, and it was totally stock…biggest problem on it was the PS pump could not keep up to fast reversals with the wheel, and so I headed for the Rhubarb one night..no big deal, just a bent lower control arm…Loved the drilled caps, the no bullshit honest toughness of it, and I still remember the build plate on the rad support with the words “special handling car”..whatever that meant…It wasn’t as tossable as my ’72 Satellite as it felt a bit heavier, but, again, it really honked!

IIRC, the RCMP cars around that time were painted a unique shade of blue, that as far as I know wasn’t available on civilian cars. I wonder if “special handling car” referred to the non standard colour?

A few years later, the RCMP went to white cars with decals, probably to save the taxpayers a few dollars over the custom colour.

Wikipedia has a picture of a Blue RCMP car, a couple of years newer than your Fury, but the same colour they were using in that era.

Wow – I had no idea that these outsold the 79 St. Regis. Although I suppose that I should have, as I would occasionally see an elderly couple driving around in one of these and almost never saw a St. Regis when these were new or late model cars.

This may be a great surprise to PN, but if presented with a choice between this and a similar-condition LTDII, I would have to think long and hard. All of the flimsiness and ugliness of the B body sedan mated to the dreaded Lean Burn system. Uggghhh. No wonder Chevy sold so many Impalas and Caprices in 1977-78.

I don’t think anyone needs to worry about this being sold any time soon. The 74 Satellite sedan that I have written up a couple of times is still for sale in my area, down to under $1200. I haven’t forked over any cash for that one either.

Lean Burn is easy to ditch. I don’t know Indian law but would you be smog exempt in your area on something that old? Is there even tailpipe testing?

Ditch all the lean burn and go looking through the hot rod catalogs for a 4 barrel intake (if it didn’t have one) and then consider an EFI conversion. Full tune up etc. and timing reset and life would be good.

My bigger worry is that vinyl top and what might be lurking under it, I can see it is pulling and letting water in under it.

Well, it sounds like the ’79 St. Regis may have at least outsold the ’78 Monaco four-door sedan, with the Monaco’s higher overall sales total only achieved as a result of the Monaco picking up a few extra sales from other body styles which weren’t carried over. (Paul quotes the 47K figure as coupes and sedans; were there ’78 Monaco wagons as well?) On the other hand, in ’79 there was also no Plymouth equivalent to share sales with.

Looking back, full-size Plymouth and Dodge sales never really recovered from the ’62 downsizing, especially Dodge. From that point onward, full-size cars would never make up anywhere near as large a proportion of Plymouth’s and Dodge’s sales as most of their GM and Ford competitors, even as full-size cars remained the dominant class of American car into the early ’70s.

Things slid further during the fuselage era, probably due to a combination of consumers not liking the styling and a growing reputation for quality issues. The 1973-74 energy crisis then knocked the full-size Plymouths and Dodges into complete irrelevance, and they never recovered. By ’78 fleet models probably made up the majority of their sales, and things would stay that way through the eras when the R-bodies and M-bodies took over the full-size slot in the Plymouth/Dodge model lineups.

Only 29,000 Monaco sedans were produced in 1978; another 17,000 were coupes and and under 9,000 were wagons. These figures come from the Encyclopedia of American Cars; might they be calendar year?

MCT, fuselage Plymouths didn’t sell that bad; 1969 marked the largest-selling senior Plymouth of the 1960s. Production then fell to an average of roughly 260,000 through 1973, which wasn’t great but better than 1960-61. Meanwhile, fuselage Dodges by and large sold better than their 1965-68 predecessor.

I would argue that the biggest factor in the torpedoing of senior Plymouth and Dodge sales wasn’t the 1962 downsizing, but rather Exner’s weird styling. Sales for 1961 were already quite weak for both brands. For 1962 Dodge production actually increased slightly. By 1964 both brands recovered nicely: Senior Dodge sales were second only to record-breaking 1960; Plymouth’s were higher than for any model year in the 1970s.

Note that Chevy’s downsized big cars sold very well in the late-70s (contrary to what one leading business magazine breathlessly anticipated). The Chevy’s size was very close to that of the 1962-64 Plymouth.

Were Dodge sales boosted in 1962 by the mid-year appearance of the full-size Custom 880? According to Curtis Redgap, a Chrysler historian whose family owned a dealership that carried all of the Mopar brands, Dodge dealers were screaming for a true full-size car by late 1961. (Chrysler-Plymouth dealers at least had the Chrysler Newport to sell, and Chrysler Division would record a very good year for 1962.)

The head of Dodge Division went to Chrysler management and demanded some sort of true “big” car for the dealers to sell. The result was the Dodge Custom 880, which was a hastily reworked Chrysler sporting a 1961 Dodge front clip.

While Plymouth and Dodge scored an increase in sales for 1962, it’s important to remember that 1961 was a recession year for car sales. For 1962, industry sales recovered nicely, but Dodge and Plymouth still fell in the production rankings, and Chrysler Corporation’s total market share was down to around 10 percent for the model year. I’ve read that, at some points during the 1962 model year, AMC outsold all of Chrysler Corporation!

Historians note that GM’s market share peaked in 1962, with Chevrolet alone accounting for 30 percent of the market. I’ve often wondered if GM’s market share hit that high point because Chrysler Corporation was so weak that year.

Dr Lemming

Posted November 19, 2013 at 9:24 AM

For 1962, the entire Dodge Dart line saw a production increase of 4.5 percent. If you add in the Custom 880, production inched up almost 6 percent. Note that the latter comparison adds in the 1961 Polara, which was a stretched, high-end version of the Dart and matched the Custom 880 in price.

In other words, the return of the full-sized Dodge didn’t do much for overall sales. It was more of a psychological thing for dealers (“. . . mmmmust have BIG car!”).

Meanwhile, senior Plymouth production declined 12 percent from an already abysmal 1961. Some of that slack was taken up by Chrysler, whose production increased more than 30,000 units for 1962.

It makes sense that GM’s dominance was partly the result of Chrysler’s weakness, but Ford wasn’t in top form either, e.g., Mercury had retreated downmarket and Lincoln had become a boutique brand with only two body styles.

Geeber

Posted November 19, 2013 at 12:26 PM

It’s bizarre that the 1962 Dart/Polara increased sales over their 1961 counterparts, while sales of the 1962 Plymouth declined over its 1961 counterpart. The Plymouth was no beauty queen, but it was better looking than the Dodge, which was one of most strange-looking domestic cars of the 1960s.

No doubt a few dealers simply showed Plymouth loyalists a Chrysler Newport rather than let them walk out the door.

Maybe Paul’s statement in the article that 47K was coupes and sedans only was right; your figures for those two styles work out to 46K, and the difference could just be due to rounding.

Full-size Plymouths in the 1965-73 era weren’t exactly bad sellers, but they were generating a lot less business for Plymouth (proportional to its size) than they did for Chevrolet and Ford. At Chevy and Ford, full-size cars remained by far their best-selling product line into the early ’70s, usually outselling compacts and intermediates by a wide margin. At Plymouth, there were years when the full-size line wasn’t even the best seller of the three size classes.

Dodge’s full-size cars were middle-of-the-pack sellers in that era. I hadn’t realized that the fuselage models outsold the previous design, but I don’t think sales of the previous design had been anything more than medicore. The only other Big Three brand where full-sizes had fallen so far from their exalted status was Mercury, hose full-sizes never really bounced back after the 1958-61 recession ended. Mercury’s full-size sales would weather the ’70s well, though — there were some years in the post-energy crisis ’70s where Mercury actually sold *more* full-size cars than they had some years in the post-recession ’60s — while Dodge’s (and Plymouth’s) sank beneath the surface.

When I was writing my earlier post, I had been thinking that you could date the sales struggles of the full-size Plymouths and Dodges back further than ’62. I guess you could even take it all the way back to 1958, with the recession and the backlash against the quality issues of the Forward Look ’57s. The odd styling of the later Exner era couldn’t have helped things, either. To geeber’s point, though, during the 1958-61 period almost no one did well with their full-size cars. It was what happened from ’62 onward that really distinguished Plymouth and Dodge from their GM and Ford competitors.

The downsized ’77 Chevys sold well, but that was in 1977, not 1962. I’ve made the observation in the past that building a car the size of the downsized ’62 Plymouths and Dodges was not a bad idea, and viewed as a new size class of car, they weren’t bad sellers at all (see also “Ford Fairlane”). The problem was having a car that size as your largest car, just as the recession ended and the economy came roaring back. For all the credit Ford gets for having laid the blueprints for the mid-size car with the ’62 Fairlane, they sold more than twice as many full-size cars in 1962 as they did Fairlanes.

Geeber

Posted November 19, 2013 at 12:54 PM

A lot had changed between 1962 and 1977 in the new-car market, and among the country as a whole.

Plenty of buyers were voicing complaints about the size, utility, poor fuel economy and overall flamboyance of American cars during 1958-59. GM and Ford partially addressed this by making their 1961 full-size cars slightly narrower, shorter and taller, and eliminating fins and wraparound windshields.

The smaller size was, however, more on the order of a “nip and tuck” procedure than a complete downsizing. Aside from the 1962 Dodge and Plymouth, the only car that was really downsized compared to its predecessor during this era was the 1961 Lincoln Continental, which was a foot shorter than the 1960 model. A 1961 Chevrolet Impala, however, certainly LOOKED more practical and sober than its 1959-60 counterparts.

The major response to complaints about overblown cars was the introduction of smaller cars by the Big Three. Thus, by 1963, someone unhappy with the size of a Ford Galaxie could choose the intermediate Fairlane or compact Falcon.

By 1977, we’d been through Earth Day and the Arab Oil Embargo, and popular culture was filled with discussion and books centering on the exhaustion of natural resources and the perils of overpopulation. Granted, the Arab Oil Embargo was about politics, not any real shortage of oil, but to consumers the end result was the same. There was no gas when they went to fill up their car.

Meanwhile, car sizes in all categories had been growing steadily since the mid-1960s, with the result that mid-1970s intermediates were as big and heavy as an early 1960s full-size car, while offering less room. There was also a sense that the longer-lower-wider mentality had just about run its course, as American cars kept getting bigger on the outside without any corresponding increase in interior or trunk space. In some cases, larger 1970s cars were MORE cramped than their smaller 1960s counterparts.

GM’s downsized 1977 full-size cars thus hit at exactly the right time, and seemed like a breath of fresh air. In a canny move, GM also released the first Cadillac Seville with styling themes that would be used by the 1977 full-size cars. Thus, instead of people wondering why these cars looked so strange, which was what happened with the 1962 Mopars, people thought that they looked like cut-rate Sevilles. Which, in the fall of 1976 among Middle America, was not a bad thing.

It’s worth noting, however, that while the downsized 1977-79 Chevrolet was considered a big success with 600,000 units sold annually, during the 1960s the full-size Chevrolet usually sold over 1 million copies every year.

Dr Lemming

Posted November 19, 2013 at 10:09 PM

I should offer the caveat that when I went back in to double check the production figures I found three different totals in the reference books I have access to; one set of figures shows the 1962 Dart line having an 18 percent drop in production over 1961.

Meanwhile, Plymouth’s production dropped from roughly 207,000 in 1961 to 182,000 in 1962. It would make sense that most — if not virtually all — of Chrysler’s sales increase came from Plymouth.

MCT, when I have time I’ll calculate out Chevy and Ford’s proportion of full-sized car sales through the 1960s and 70s. I suspect that by the late-60s their dominance had significantly diminished. What I can say right now is that for 1969 big car sales represented more than half of Ford and Chevy’s total volume.

Each to his own views, but my hypothesis is that Chrysler could have done very well if its “lean breed” had been launched in 1962 with decent styling. At any rate, Chrysler was arguably too small to be able to compete model for model against the Big Two. So it had to be different, e.g., why couldn’t it have put a mid-sized and “big” car on the same platform?

Too bad the lean breed was so poorly executed, because it gave efficiently designed family cars an undeservedly bad name for years.

Geeber, your point is well taken about the comparatively low sales of the downsized Chevy. Even at that level of volume Chevy utterly dominated the low-priced big car field — precisely because the car WAS such a breath of fresh air compared to the bloatmobiles of the 1970s. My family had a mid-sized Ford whose interior dimensions were more cramped than a Dodge Dart yet the doors were as thick as hams.

Geeber

Posted November 20, 2013 at 7:57 AM

I always thought that if the 1962 Dodge and Plymouth had debuted two years earlier, for 1960, they would have been more of a success. Car buyers were still very concerned about economy, and neither the Ford nor the Chevrolet from that year were among either brand’s “Greatest Hits.”

Plus, the styling, while still odd, wouldn’t have seemed quite so “far out” at that time. All of Chrysler’s 1960-62 cars still had a “1950s feel” to them when it came to styling. In 1962, when a Plymouth Fury or Dodge Dart was parked next to that year’s Chevrolet, Ford or Pontiac, it was a fatal mistake. Just two years earlier, neither would have seemed quite so bizarre.

GM, Ford and even AMC were backpedaling from the 1950s as fast they could during 1960-62, but Virgil Exner and Chrysler management apparently didn’t get the memo.

Brings back (not fond) memories of a ’77 I once owned. Mint green with a cloth interior and a Super Six, really clean body, and with an odometer that was almost as low (44K). Fought and struggled to get $1500 out of it – and this was in 2009.

That one came out of the same pole shed as the ’79 Cherokee I previously featured, and has a bit of a story to go with it. Saving its writeup for the next Chrysler Week or similar.

I remember the neighbors trying to unload a stripper version of one of these in this color, very basic, and worthless. This was late 1982 or early 1983, by the time these things were 5 years old, they had essentially no value, especially low-option, 4 door no AC ones.
I’d take a St. Regis over this any day, crappy as they were, for both looks and rarity. Make mine an A38
cop package with an E58.
I don’t if Paul knows this, but inaugural R-Body was offered only in Chrysler or Dodge form, the Gran Fury coming in 1980. Back by “popular demand”, I wonder?

There presumably wasn’t a Plymouth R-body in ’79 for the same reason there was no Plymouth version of the 1975 Cordoba/Charger or 1977 LeBaron/Diplomat. As the cars sold by the various Chrysler brands became more and more alike, and as the Chrysler brand itself expanded into “less than fullsize” cars, there were concerns around overlap between the Plymouth and Chrysler brands, which shared the same dealer network. By 1979, the largest car being sold under the Plymouth brand was the Volare.

The story I’ve heard is that Chrysler-Plymouth dealers asked for a Plymouth version of the R-body. They felt there were some low-end full-size sales, probably mainly fleet sales, which they were missing out on (and which was all going to Dodge dealers instead).

For anyone pining for the finest remaining example of the last iteration of the 1971 Satellite 4-door sedan. Chrysler sure flip-flopped the Satellite and Fury models a lot, never quite figuring out whether they wanted the Fury to stay a full-size or not.

Funny how the vinyl top is peeling away at exactly the same spot on the C-pillar on both sides.

The Fury was always a full-size through 1974, unless you count the downsized 1962-64 standard Plymouths as midsizes. For 1975 the Fury name replaced the Satellite name on the B-bodies, and all C-body cars were now badged under the Gran Fury name (which had previously been the top trim level of C-body Fury). Dodge made a similar switch in 1977, with the Monaco name replacing Coronet on the B-bodies, and all C-bodies being badged under the Royal Monaco name (previously just the top trim level). After 1977 the Plymouth and Dodge C-bodies were dropped, leaving only the B-body Fury and Monaco for ’78.

I think Chrysler made the above switches on the theory that, after the 1973-74 energy crisis, traditional full-size carbuyers would be looking for something a little smaller than they had in the past, more the size of the B-body. This was in fact the direction the market went in — the downsized 1977 GM full-sizes had similar exterior dimensions to GM’s previous generation of intermediate — but since Chrysler lacked the resources to get downsized full-sizes on the market quickly, they just repackaged their existing intermediate design.

Ford would also do something similar with its LTD II. Ford kept its existing full-size models in production alongside the LTD II until a “true” downsized full-size design was introduced (the 1979 Panthers), but sales of the C-body Plymouths and Dodges were so anemic that Chrysler axed them after 1977 and went with the B-bodies as their sole fullsize entries for a year. By that time GM also had downsized intermediates on the market, and Chrysler had introduced the M-bodies to line up with them and Ford’s Granada. (The Chrysler brand kept its C-bodies through 1978, then went directly from them into the R-bodies.)

Yes, the 79 R body platform was a fairly heavy re-do of the B body from 1971 (and 1968, and 1966, and which actually saw birth as the 1962 Plymouth and Dodge.) The swan song for Chrysler’s longitudinal torsion bars.

Brings back fond memories of riding in the back of Grandpa’s ’77 Fury Salon. Gold with a brown vinyl top, same shiny vinyl interior as the featured Monaco. Grandpa was a retired cop who went on to head security at Chase Manhattan’s main office, so I can see the attraction.

He kept the car about 14 years before he gave it away for next to nothing. It had been garaged, so it made it through New York winters relatively unscathed. It was replaced by my Uncle’s ’86 Century Custom, with that illustrious Iron Duke!

I don’t think that they were required, but several models (many from Chrysler) used the amber in either a belief that this was the wave of the future or some attempt to seem hip to world trends. Volares used amber as well. Surely they didn’t think that anyone would mistake this for anything European.

Some cars came with amber tail light lenses, but the assembly did not include a separate turn signal bulb. On these cars, the red lense still handled the turn signal function, and the amber lense was strictly decorative. For a mid-model refresh, it allowed the manufacturer to add a new look to the back of the car, without modifying the tail light harness.

I don’t have a complete list of these cars, but the 1976 Vega was definitely one of them (see attached image).

The Mercury Monarch had amber tail lenses like the Granada. Unlike the Granada, which did use them as turn signals, the amber lenses on the Monarch served as only parking lights and were back lit in red when the parking lights or headlights were switched on. They went with all red lenses with the square headlight refresh of the Monarch. From Wikipedia:

This car was a mistake. It seemed that during the early 1970s, all the intermediate sedans were a mistake. While Detroit made buckets of loot out of intermediate coupes during the Brougham Era, Chrysler and Ford couldn’t figure out how to make silk purses out of their sow’s ears, which were their intermediate sedans.

By 1974, it was apparent that there were too many large cars on the US Market. Not only was there a real mpg issue, there were too many sedans which could seat six. Chrysler offered a seating for six among three class of cars, Compact, Intermediate and Full Size. Why buy this Dodge, when you could get a Dart sedan which got better gas mileage, cost less and styled with a formal look which was popular for the next 20 years?

There is a reason Chrysler only sold a lot of their A bodies during this time. These cars were not only proven, they were inexpensive, durable, roomy and accidentally stylish. Although they were from 1967, they ended up being ahead of their time. When America wanted a smaller car – Chrysler had it two ways, Valiant or Dart. This screwed the rest of the Chrysler line up.

Chrysler got lucky. They completely missed the Market when they bloated up their intermediates into huge, massive front overhanged, coke bottle rear fendered, sedans and coupes. When these things were designed, I don’t think many in Detroit believed that within a season or two, the look for cars would go 180 degree into Formal-land.

GM ruled. Their intermediates ruled. Their boughamified offerings ruled. So when GM unleashed their new 1977 full sizers, Ford and Chrysler could do nothing to respond to the new formal look in sedans and coupes GM presented as the future. Ford had enough dough to patch up their intermediates into some semblance of the times, but Chrysler was broke and could do nothing for their missed-the-mark intermediate sedans.

What we have here today is a car that was lost in the times, and the passing 35 years haven’t helped one bit. What’s to like? The pathetic square front end which doesn’t fit the rest of the car? The ugly rear end which is just plain weird? The coke bottle rear fender line which intrudes upon anyone’s sight lines riding in the back? The butt-sweating vinyl bench seats? Engineering which was iffy at best? Lean-Burn? While a similar coupe could at least somewhat explain a sporty look, this is a four door pillared sedan. It isn’t pretty.

You have to find someone who has memories of these cars before you can land a buyer. With such poor sales numbers, and poor build quality, there isn’t a lot of folks from which to pull from.

If I was the current owner, I’d drive it to the ground and have the FOR SALE sign on it as I do it. That way you could at least do something with it until someone with a love for this car discovers it during your visit to Lowes or Target.

These cars had two problems. First, the styling of the new 1971 version (especially the sedan) was woefully out of style by 1972 or 1973. The full-sized fuselage cars never set the sales charts on fire, and these cars were not as good looking as the fuseys. Brougham was in, and these things made horrible broughams. Second, everything you touched or felt gave the impression of cheap and flimsy. They were actually quite durable cars (discounting the ever-present lemons), at least up until the lean burn years. But the body gave the impression that the thing was stamped out of metal rejected by a can factory. Nothing about these cars conveyed a feel of quality. I can tell you from firsthand experience, that these things (especially after the first year or two) made virtually zero conquest sales, but were bought by nobody but fleets and Mopar homers who wouldn’t buy anything else. I loved older Mopars back when these were ordinary used cars, and not even I really wanted one of these. The older pre-71 B body cars were built like tanks, but the newer ones had throwaway (or rustaway) bodies. These would be among my very least favorite pre-Iacocca Mopars.

I guess they should had let the 1968-70 body soldiering a couple of more years with little updates here and there and restyled for 1974 instead of the full-size C-body and having the Cordoba originally launched as a Plymouth, things could had been different.

Your way off the mark. There was nothing wrong with early seventies Chrysler intermediates. They were simply a product of the times in terms of styling, but when it comes to style it case of love it or hate it. There was plenty to love about these cars but it seems you are more partial to what was going on with GM.

Roscoe P. Coltrane inevitably comes to mind whenever I see these Dodges. Too bad that this one is brown and not white, because in a different color, you could take it to car shows and harass the owners of Dodge Chargers!

Respraying it in white wouldn’t be a big deal. The vinyl top is just asking to be removed anyhow. The wheels and dogdish hubcaps are already fine as-is. Just need some Hazzard County sheriff decals and a big CB whip antenna for the rear bumper. Certainly would be cheaper than making a General Lee clone! 🙂

Aren’t almost all of these that survive decked out in police gear? 🙂 I should point out that these are not the police hubcaps, those had the little holes drilled around the perimeter to let heat escape. These are just the poverty-spec units – that somehow look fitting on this car.

I drove one of these – once.
It was an ex-police car that had been handed down to the Director of the Parks and Rec department in my town for use as his official car.
I worked summers for the town’s park department doing maintenance work and as a life guard. The parks director was a huge hulk of a guy – former college football player – non-stop tobacco chewer – who wasn’t afraid to get his hands dirty while we were getting the town lake ready for the summer season. He would always let us high school/college kids take his car to run errands in town – pick up lunch – go get a part for a lawn mower – etc.
His car had been repainted dark green with the town logo on the side – still had the spot light, etc.
One day he asked me to go get something in town – can’t remember what now – so off I went – driving that big car.
Every town vehicle I passed waved at me – thinking I was the director – that was cool!
I picked up whatever I needed – then took a little detour to see my girlfriend at the time – and show her the car.
After the visit I got back in the car – turned the key – and it wouldn’t start!
It cranked – but just wouldn’t kick over. I began to panic – what if the car didn’t start? What would I tell him?
I tried again and again – FINALLY it kicked over.
I made a bee-line back to the lake and was happy to hand him the keys.

In my hometown, this was the favorite used car for overweight moms who wore polyester double-knit pants. Seriously. When one would pull up and park, I’d watch and wait and I was seldom wrong about the kind of person who would exit the vehicle.

The St Regis had the unfortunate privilege in going to market just as the second oil crisis in 79 happened. I was working for Chrysler at the time and received one with a 360 V8 as a company car. Plus, the car wasn’t very well screwed together.

With respect to the 78 Monaco, the odometer was only a 5 digit one. Chrysler didn’t have enough confidence to go to a 6 digit one until the early 90s.

The St. Regis also fought the fact that it had a sort of oddball name that had been an oddball trim package name that consisted of an oddball vinyl top treatment on everything from Imperials to Furys. And the name had been a top trim Chrysler New Yorker hardtop coupe in ’55 and ’56. At least that car was nice.

After all the hard work they put into finding this name, they ran out of gas and eventually came up with four little differentiated cars with four model names under three brands.

The St. Regis spokesperson was Hal Linden from “Barney Miller,” and all they gave him to work with was some oddball headlight covers borrowed from the ’78 Magnum and of course, the oddball name.

I think the model launch was famous for cars that came off the line not running and had to be reworked to get them into the shipping stream.

Aspects of the R body were not all terrible, but they should have just used the Monaco name.

I think the lack of variety in the R-body hurt it too, they were just sedans, shades of today true, but back then coupes were still pretty popular, so were the big wagons, but Chrysler was too broke to engineer any other body styles.

Just a little, teeny bit of styling on the back half of the car might have helped, too. It was like the stylists got finished with the front half, then realized that they were out of time. “Stylists, put your pencils down in five minutes.”

Good catch on my misinformation. Poor Hal didn’t even have the St. Regis headlight covers to work with.

I did find this St. Regis commercial. They zero in on a hood ornament crest that didn’t mean much in the big picture – a blip between the Fratzog era and the universal Pentastar era. And, after the headlight covers, the crest was one of the car’s most distinguishing features.

I’d pick on some details, but the car is actually attractive, and was better looking than the early Panthers.

Here is poor Hal with the Newport. Funny, both the St. Regis and Newport commercials go after the Caprice, when Dodge was usually more directed at Pontiac, and Chrysler at Olds and Buick. I guess the lack of a ’79 Fury helped cause that, and than an ’80 Fury popped up. Proof that it’s hard to make four mostly similar cars ( I give the New Yorker its due) seem different.

I also thought it was strange for the Hal Linden Chrysler ads to compare Newports with Caprices. It diluted the name for one thing. Should have had Olds 88 as a reference.

I also agree that the R bodies were total failures. The M body was more contemporary, and did end up getting sales in the 80’s. Why did they bother with R’s?

jpcavanaugh

Posted November 24, 2013 at 7:45 AM

Disagree. The only reason the M sold as well as it did was that there wasn’t anything bigger at Chrysler dealers. Ford was selling Panthers and GM was selling rwd B/C/D bodies like crazy in the mid 80s. The R body New Yorker/Fifth Avenue would have sold well too in that market, likely better than the M body Fifth Avenue did. However, Iacocca killed the R at the trough of the market for big cars, convinced that in the predicted era of $2/gallon gas, Chrysler could not afford to field a car in that segment that was going to be a dead segment. Unfortunately, everyone’s predictions turned out to be wrong. Gas went down, the economy boomed, and “traditional” luxury had one more good decade left. Also, the R would have been a better choice for police fleets. Recall that other than the Fifth Avenue, no other M sold decently at all (except to fleets, where it had a big size disadvantage). I believe that for ever M body unit sold in the 82-89 period, the R would have sold 1.5 or 2 units.

Dad’s 87 Dakota had a 6 digit odo, and it was full of K-car parts. that anemic 3.9 V6 (3/4 318) was reliable, and relatively gutsy, but even the 3.55 axle ratio it had couldn’t make it move any faster than molasses on a cold day, and it couldn’t actually outrun the 85mph speedo.

I agree with all the comments about cheap that apply to these mid-size Mopars. Friends that were Plymouth loyalists had a ’71 Satellite Custom wagon. The styling seemed okay and was differentiated from the Dodge – even at the rear quarters, but it screamed cheap inside. It was their last Plymouth along with a similar year Duster. They went to a ’78 or later Malibu wagon. These were generally the worst mid-size cars of their era – except for perhaps AMC.

These never sold terribly well as Dodges. The inaugural year ’71 Coronet sedan and wagon only sold about 75K units (around 120K if you add the Charger coupes). In that light, sales in ’78 don’t seem so bad until you look at the total slaughter by its intended competition. But, amortized along with generally higher Plymouth volume, these bodies likely paid for themselves over their total run.

In the Midwest you did actually see the ’77 – ’78 versions of these cars around in civilian trim – a decent number in the broughamified Salon trim. That’s if you add up the ’77 and ’78 look alike Plymouth and Dodge versions on a combined basis.

IIRC, Consumer Reports once picked a sample of this car that had Plymouth trim on one side and Dodge on the other. If true, I rest my case on build quality.

Great reading all the memories of the late ’70’s Mopars
Nothing under the vinyl top to be afraid of!
That peeling is courtesy of our HOT Carolina summers.
Been my daily driver for the past 10 years.
Received it from my 103 year old Gramma when we mover back to the US with 81,000 miles
112,757 as of today
318 with a Carter 2 barrel

“It’s got a cop motor, a four hundred and forty cubic inch plant, it’s got cop tires, cop suspensions, cop shocks, it’s a model made before catalytic converters, so it’ll run good on regular gas. What do you say? Is it the new Bluesmobile or what?”

Civilian versions of the Mopar intermediates from these years were very rare around our town when they were new, even with the presence of a dealer that sold all three brands in those days.

Chrysler’s intermediates were popular from 1966 through 1970, but the 1971 restyle never caught on with buyers. The 1-2 punch of the bloated 1972 Ford Torino/Mercury Montego and GM’s 1973 Colonnade intermediates seriously hurt Chrysler’s position in the intermediate market. The Arab Oil Embargo and resulting recession effectively finished Chrysler’s presence in this segment.

The sedan version of Chrysler’s 1971-78 intermediates had absolutely no image in those days. Even the top-of-the-line versions looked like police cars or taxi cabs. The GM cars were from GM, which gave them automatic legitimacy. The Fords were a convincing “mini-me” LTD. But the Dodges and Plymouths had no real image.

The Colonnades benefited from GM’s new focus on handling and braking, while the Fords offered the dream-whip ride. The Chrysler intermediates were neither fish nor fowl. The famed torsion bar suspension had been softened for a better ride. The result was cars that didn’t handle as well as their GM competitors, or ride as smoothly as their Ford competitors.

Plus, Chrysler never seemed to pay attention to sound insulation in the Unibody structure the way they should have. The doors had a terrible hollow sound when you shut them (especially after a couple of years) and when you slammed a door, the steering column would shudder. You are right – these cars didn’t really do anything well. Except, I would argue, keep running in old age. At least before the Lean Burn era, the Mopars were found in low income settings everywhere as they aged – not popular, but cheap and durable. Then came Lean Burn, and then the cars wouldn’t run right. In today’s internet era, it is easy to get info on disconnecting it, but this was like Voodoo in the early 80s. Sometimes you could find “a guy” who could disconnect it and make the car run right, and sometimes you would find “a guy” who would disconnect it and your car was never right again. I got the second kind with my 77 New Yorker.

Our next-door neighbors were Mopar loyalists. They had a 1971 Dodge Coronet Custom sedan. Every time I rode in that car, I was amazed at the level of interior noise. It was almost as bad as our 1973 AMC Gremlin.

They traded it for the first 1977 Chrysler LeBaron in town, which was much quieter on the road, and had really plush interior trim that equaled anything from Ford or GM.

There was no need to find a guy, all you had to do was head to your local Mopar Direct-Connection dealer, pick up the kit, then stop by the hardware store for a little roll flashing and pop rivets. In about 1 1/2 hours you were free of the lean burn. I did that to a number of cars over the years. Only Chrysler and their total lack of engineering skills would ever think to mount an engine control computer on the air cleaner.

Interesting you bring this up, Eric. The mechanics I have come across, at least when I was in the car wrenching business, often had a real aversion do learning new things. When the Lean Burn things came to us, many just said, “It can’t be fixed.” I went to the library, got a copy of “Popular Mechanics” and found out how easy it was. I then taught one guy we had (one capable of learning things) how to do it, and I wasn’t even a mechanic. He made nice money on each job. Soon the other guys figured out how to do it!

Eric VanBuren

Posted November 18, 2013 at 5:24 PM

I agree when these things were in that stage where they were starting to show up at independents most mechanics did have an aversion to leaning something new. Of course now it is the opposite not too many current mechanics know how to adjust points, set timing, adjust a carb or worse rebuild a carb and they have no desire to learn about it.

tiredoldmechanic

Posted November 18, 2013 at 5:32 PM

I still have my dwell meter, advance timing light, vacuum gauge etc. Still know how to use ’em too, but those are usually beer scale jobs these days. Back when, these were essential tools and skills. Today most mechanics under 40 don’t even know what they are!

I would choose a St. Regis over this car, which is far better looking, rarer, and more with the times. The St. Regis had slightly unique styling in line with GM and Ford’s offerings of 79-81, while the Monaco’s Colonnade Monte Carlo rip off front end and coke bottle profile had to have been passé by 1978.

Can anyone chime in on how these unibody cars fared in everyday use? In police duty? In how they affected the drive/ride? I’d always been fascinated by the torsion bar/unibody combo, but then perplexed by the leaf springs.

In a technical sense and on paper, they’re more interesting than the competition. And for some reason, I can’t imagine them being very quiet.

I’m not an ex cop and was but a young ‘un when these roamed the road in any numbers. But, a friend’s mom did shuttle me around in one for 8 years, and the local constabulary saw fit to drive them. Some surrounding small town cops were driving these into the 1990’s.

Rust issues seemed average, and fleet buyers must have like them as a lot of them became law enforcement or taxi vehicles. That was the problem – as a consumer vehicle, they just seemed too close to fleet grade in appearance and materials in an ever broughamier world.

The leaf springs are a tough basic spring. I’ll bet the R-body successor had leaf springs – it was the Chrysler way. My 2002 Durango, 2012 F-150 and my boat trailer have leaf springs. That’s three of my four current “vehicles.” The ride in the F-150 borders on amazing for a truck, just some minor bed hop on washboard roads.

Now, my question is, how did so many Chryslers become known for great handling with the leaf springs out back? Was the front suspension simply enough to make up for the stuck in the ’50s rear end?

How cheap was this car? The ’71 Satellite wagon I knew had a perforated cardboard ceiling panel, the crappiest textured monotone brown plastic “wood” ever seen on a dash, zero imagination in any interior aspects, and Chrysler’s Insta-Split vinyl interior. And this was an upper trim Custom.

While probably a fault of lubrication maintenance, around 1978, my friends mom dropped us at the front of our Junior High. The front passenger door got stuck open. That incident just seemed to sum up the car.

Leaf springs don’t dictate bad handling. Second gen F-bodies and 70s X-bodies were regarded as very good handlers for their time and they were the only cars in the GM lineup that didn’t use coils in the rear. Regarding Chrysler, they offset the axle to reduce acceleration windup(though braking not so much) and they tended to be stiffer early on, softening them up by the 70s(both with bushings and spring rates) to improve “ride”.

The Mopar suspension setup started the torsion bar/leaf spring combo with the 1957 models. The unique aspect of the leaf springs on Chrysler cars beginning with the 1957 models was that the rear axle was mounted forward on the springs, so that the front of the spring was only 1/3 of the length, while the back of the spring was the remaining 2/3. From what I understand (and I am no suspension engineer) the forward placement of the axle and the short forward part of the spring provided both the benefit of a stiff spring (for support of the body during acceleration and braking) and a soft spring (for ride). The use of multiple leaves also allowed for a variable spring rate depending on load. The leaf springs were also mounted outboard of the frame rails rather than under them as with many other designs, which I would imagine aided handling as well. I think Chrysler took leaf spring technology about as far as it can go. As coil spring suspension design improved (particularly at GM), the advantages of Chrysler’s leaf spring designs disappeared while the disadvantages (like harder to isolate for noise and worse ride quality than the better coil systems) remained.

As a student working at Avis in the early 80s we had a number of St Regis/Gran Furys and “luxury” Newports and New Yorkers, the latter always in off-white beige. All early 80s Chryslers were hopelessly frail, with constant trim issues, poor paint, rattles and echoes (those big hollow doors, etc). They drove horribly. At the time the Chrysler big cars seemed worse than the 71-78 intermediates and certainly worse than the 74-78 big bluesmobiles, and by the early 80s these decrepit boats made the GM and Ford competition look like BMWs.

Oddly enough, IMO only the Cordoba, esp. the 300 version, looked like it belonged in the 80s. I always thought the 2nd-gen Cordoba a handsome car, although I knew from driving them there was a lot less than met the eye….

This was the dark time as Lido’s K-car renaissance was starting, and Ks aside the whole range was a far cry from the crude-but-bulletproof Valiant/Dart duo that carried them (barely) through the 70s.

Maybe it’s me, but I cannot fathom buying one of these when new. I picture the boring man who brings in his ’73 AMC Diplomat for trade and says to himself, “MMMmm-hmmmm gotta get one of those in Poop Brown and GEN-u-wine matching vinyl seating. Hope it comes with a big, hulkin’ motor, flabby seating, a three speed automatic and wallowy suspension. I’ll get the A/C but none of that fancy electric windows or rear defrost. And an AM Radio standard! Though I suppose these were the Kia of their day. Bare-bones, basic transportation. Not much frill for not much money and you didn’t care how you got there long as you got there.

I hate to break it to you young-uns, but everybody used 3 speed automatics in the 70s. Also, I would bet that no more than 10% of mid-size buyers got power windows or locks back then. Vinyl seating was still pretty normal as well. Most buyers were at least opting for the AM/FM radio, but it was extra cost for everyone and AMs were still not unheard of then.

The only true hit Mopar had in mid/full size segment in 1971-79 was the Cordoba. Its image was 99% of why it sold versus the Dodge/Plymouth B bodies.

The Satellite/Coronet family just looked too “swinging 60’s’/bell bottoms/love beads” in the ‘personal-lux’ 70’s. That’s why Cutlasses sold brisk to ‘Ma and Pa’, and the “small Fury” tanked. The Cordoba looked “GM clone” and had the Chrysler “mid-lux” brand name.

The boxy 1966-70 B bodies are huge on collector market now, but the 1971-74 swoop look was to counter GM and Ford’s 1968 era middies selling like hotcakes. But they were late to the market, just as Grand Prix/Monte Carlo/Gran Torino hit the ground running.

Last night SNL aired a sketch entitles Dyke and Fats about a 1970s Chicago cop duo. I think the prop company had some cool vintage Monacos. Those are Monacos, right? I don’t know why, but I still think about this beast.

The patrol car was a ~71 Dodge Coronet; the car they were chasing at the beginning was a ’75 or ’76 Fury; the brown car seen from the rear later on is a ’77 or ’78 Fury. All were on the same B-body shell, thus quite similar in profile.

The exterior shot of the police station showed a ’74 Grand Fury patrol car, the bigger C-body.

I just bought a ’71 Coronet Sedan here in Oregon with 37,000 actual documented miles. I bought it from the second owner, who purchased it from the original 93 year old owner. It was garage kept its entire life and it shows. The only rust I have found is at the base of the front and rear windows, which is typical, because of the triim trapping dirt and debris under it.

It is Dk. Root Beer brown with green interior. I bought with the intention of duplicating my Grandfather’s police car he drove as Chief of Police in the small town I grew up in, in Oregon. I have since changed the entire interior from the Kermit-the-Frog green to medium blue vinyl seats and re-dyed all the plastic and dash blue. The exterior will be painted 1971 Dodge B1 Lt. Powder Blue. The current car, like Grandpa’s has the 318- 2BBL, A727 3sp Auto.

Grandpa’s car was originally purchased from the Oregon State University Motor Pool, in 1979 for $700.00. It was one of seven campus police cars. They ordered them as spec ‘Dick’ cars, as they rarely left the campus and were unlikely to get involved in chases. The car was kept by the city I grew up in until around 1989. Grandpa passed away in 1982 and his ‘deputy’ took over shortly after. He told me they never had any major mechanical issues with the car, but replaced it with a new Caprice. They sold it as ‘Surplus’ for $1.00 (that was the title transfer fee at the time).

Grandpa’s car is long gone, believe me, I tried to locate it, but to no avail. I have been able locate most of the original equipment that was on the car; Federal Signal TwinSonic light bar, shotgun lock, Fed Sig Interceptor PA20A Siren Control, handheld radar gun, roof mounted spotlight and the stainless control panel with the switches my Dad made in 1979!! There are only two known black and white photos of the car known to exist, which have been helpful in re-creating the door decal.

This has been something I have wanted to do for many years, and with the support of my wife, family, friends and the city, I am finally realizing a dream.

I think Grandpa would be proud and according to my Dad, probably a little embarrassed at the attention I have brought him, with the meetings with the city gov’t and current police chief. They have all been very positive…..

Just a few comments. The B body mid-sized cars really seemed to have poor quality in the early 1970’s but by 1977 and 78, the end, a Monaco or Fury was nicely built and had a great fit and finish. But it was old at that point. To old to be competitive to the New GM Full Sized cars and Mid Sized cars. This was a confusing time and they had to compete in both segments.

As a former Dodge Dealer Employee, prepping cars for new customers, I remember them all very well, 1976 thru 1980.

Now the R body. Yes, it’s a failure. I love the car and own a St Regis. Why was it a failure? You’re all forgetting the big picture. Chrysler was on the verge of collapse so nobody was buying Dodges. The other reason. It simply was an inferior quality car to the Fords and GM full sized cars of the day. Chrysler went with the concept of reducing the car’s weight to get better fuel mileage and kept the car big, it’s bigger than the GM and Ford Full Sized Cars. All the weight reduction came at an expense of quality. Everything was plastic or aluminum. Door handles would break, glove box doors, window cranks would chew up the aluminum gears so fast, in 6 months, you couldn’t roll a window up or down. Even the Windshield Wiper Transmissions were made of aluminum and failed. The outside trim was of such a low quality that by the the time the cars came to the dealers, the trim on the outside, particularly around all the windows would have oxidized. They looked awful and our Salesmen wouldn’t even go near the cars. They were afraid to show the cars to the customers because they didn’t know what would break in the process. They steered the customers away from the St Regis and moved them into Diplomats or Aspens. That’s simply how it was. We were the largest dealer in all of New England, and we sold no more than perhaps 15 to 20 St Regis cars in 1979 and 1980. I remember a particular St Regis we had on the lot almost two years. It was light yellow with a tan cloth interior and a 225 six engine and no air conditioning. We couldn’t move that car. we finally sold it for 4000 bucks after rebates. You could buy an Omni for about 4000 bucks at the time….to put things in perspective. I think we only sold 6 in 1980. By 80, they had fixed a lot of the quality issues, but it was too late, the Salesmen wouldn’t go near them.

These were great cars,handled great, stopped great 108 feet fron 60 mph …

Ran 14 second 1/4 mile times and did 140 mph plus…Then you changed the carb (deleated the lean burn for more performance) added a good duel exhaust system…

I had a 77 with a 360 4bbl and it ran 14.89 in the 1/4 mile….I deleated the lean burn etc..motor was stock and 2.76 rear axle ratio..

Buddy had a 76 Monaco 440 4bbl,and left me standing still…

We bought these as good daily drivers while my buddies 68 GTX HEMI and my 67 Chevelle SS 396 were saved for the winter..

The Monaco turned me into a MOPAR guy and sold my Chevelle for a 70 Road Runner 383 4 spd then a 69 Coronet 500 with a 383 Magnum then and have today a 68 Charger RT 440 Magnum F8 green/black 4 speed and 4.10’s ! Yes,my buddy still has his HEMI GTX..

I kept the Monaco for 4 years and it never failed,my buddy still owns his today and is restored..I sold mine for a 75 RamCharger 4×4 400 4bbl auto,and I have that today,1 respray,engine rebuilt with cam/heads and it beats new 395 hp Hemi rams and eco Boost f-150’s lol..

Oh the good days of buying these awesome,reliable cars you can burn rubber in all day and never have to repair,or if you do its a cheap repair are long gone….I paid $980 for mine in 1983 at a auction,was a 1 owner car power windows etc…