Pipey wrote:apologies for what may be a daft question, but aren't some of the folks who build "the man" each year granted artist tickets/early arrival?

The "man crew" (as I believe they are called) is made up of Department of Public Works personnel, who may get discounted tickets or may buy their own. They all get early entry passes. If they cannot put together a respectable crew with the people who have tickets, I suspect that some sort of allowance will be made. I don't know for sure, this is yet another time when I'm guessing without the guidance of precedent.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I'm losing the will to live .... I'm going outside to scream and burn something!!

The lottery system wasn't the biggest problem. It seems that for a variety of reasons the demand was huge [insert suitably high number here] - say 160,000.SO ... [slaps hand on forehead] ... only 25% of people are gonna get tickets.REGARDLESS of whether its a fucking lottery or a FCFS system!

Trying desperately to be objective about this ... I too think the lottery (I'd prefer to call it a "draw") is a good system, with one proviso : There needs to be a system whereby 'somehow' the theme camps and art projects can get the critical mass of tickets they need. And by critical mass, I mean the minimum number of tickets required to get the camp / art out onto the playa for us all to enjoy and have awesome experiences with.

There is a German festival, where they run a lottery system (I forget which one), and where theme camps (they call them "cliques") can register for tickets as a group. Either the whole group gets tickets or none of them do.SO ... just throwing some numbers out there :

As early as possible in the year (to allow for long-term planning), or at a time that the community feels happiest : theme camps / art projects can apply for tickets in groups. Min # = 10, max # = 30. 25,000 tickets up for grabs. Every person in the group has to be named. Names on tickets.Either you win as a group or lose as a group.Does there need to be some sort of check on whether you are a genuine theme camp? I dunno? Comments please.

The other 35,000 tickets are sold in a separate draw. Names on tickets.ID checked at Gate.Names on tickets only changed through STEP.I would add another simple tweak in STEP : If you are selling / transfering a ticket, you can nominate the identity of the buyer - to be clear, only your nominated buyer can buy your ticket (at face value or less). This should be relatively easy to set up.Tickets sent out close to the event or kept at Will Call.

Whaddayafink??? Am I talking bollocks? I often do, so it's OK!

AND :

AntiM wrote:I'd be more inclined to say a block of tickets granted to large art installations, moreso than theme camps. Some theme camps are more welcoming than others, so choosing would be difficult.

@AntiM : I would agree. (1) Presale draw : Bump up the price and number even more - 10,000 tickets @ $500. This will start to take the heat out of the situation.(2) A separate draw for Art Collectives (need to verify validity of art collective). 300 Art installations @ an average of say 20 tickets each = 6,000 tickets. Drawn on a group basis. Note : 300 is deliberately quite high, so that hopefully all win.(3) Then you could have a "Groups" draw (doesn't matter if you call it theme camps or not - all you are doing is allowing groups of people to either win together or lose together. Pick a number : 20,000 tickets. As above suggested.(4) Main Draw as this year. Say 20,000 tickets.(5) Low Income : Say 5,000 tickets.

(2,3,4) All at the same price.Name on tickets, ID AND credit card at gate.STEP as suggested above.

As an aside : I here what you say about some theme camps being not welcome. Last year was my first burn. 99% of my experience was superb. The 1% that wasn't was from 'veteran' burners in theme camps - who jumped immediately to the conclusion that because I was a virgin and was learning what was going on, then I must be a 'tourist'. I was told to fuck off quite a few times.So I have a SLIGHT problem with what I can describe as 'closed' theme camps where it's basically a group of friends returning to the playa year after year for a private party. Which is why in (3) above, I would keep the maximum group size not too large.

Enough ... gotta go earn some money to pay for my camp (which at the moment is a camp of just one! - about 20 didn't get tickets!) and yet more costumes.

funkyjigsaw wrote:I would add another simple tweak in STEP : If you are selling / transfering a ticket, you can nominate the identity of the buyer - to be clear, only your nominated buyer can buy your ticket (at face value or less). This should be relatively easy to set up.

On what do you base this assertion? Be specific.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

I would add another simple tweak in STEP : If you are selling / transfering a ticket, you can nominate the identity of the buyer

and then you would have a scenario where people could ask for money/sexual favors/whatever in exchange for access to their "face value" ticket through the "legitimate" STEP resell system.

any system that doesn't blindly release them back into the pool is open to scalping/abuse. STEP is great in theory, but we don't know if people will actually use it. I would assume chicago/detroit burners would want to keep their tickets within the chicago/detroit community, and so on...

robrob wrote:I would assume chicago/detroit burners would want to keep their tickets within the chicago/detroit community, and so on...

Likely. But, depending on how many "extra" tickets there are in the upper midwest and how long people who have extras can wait for the money, STEP is there as an alternative. I don't think no tickets will be in STEP, it's simply not clear if it will a trickle or a goodly flow.

The Lady with a Lamprey

"The powerful are exploiting people, art and ideas, and this leads to us plebes debating how to best ration ice.Man, no wonder they always win....." Lonesomebri

Well, from the communique, for better or for worse looks like this is what BMORG is going to do in order to ensure brc has it's camps. You all had me rather curious what it would look like WITHOUT all the big projects/camps lol

late wrote:Well, from the communique, for better or for worse looks like this is what BMORG is going to do in order to ensure brc has it's camps. You all had me rather curious what it would look like WITHOUT all the big projects/camps lol

Open up a photo of Black Rock City in Photoshop and airbrush out all the theme camps, large art installations and mutant vehicles.

By the way, at this point it's pretty much impossible for bands to perform at Burning Man unless they're all miracled tickets or they got 'em in the presale. If whatever remnants of my band happens to make it to the playa this year, we'll be calling ourselves the Ticketholders.

"The Red Baron is smart.. He never spends the whole night dancing and drinking root beer.. "-The WWI Flying Ace

Agreed, my opinion is that camps, bands, art cars, art installations need to get SOME preferential treatment. Not that everyone hangs in these things, but they ARE a big part of what makes BRC. Otherwise you're just camping in a crappy desert. Sure, for a year or two you would still have cool people, but without the extreme stuff, they'd dwindle, and you may as well be in a campground.

OK, that's overstated, but I really revere all the effort and money some pour into putting on a great <whatever> for the city.

And again, I'm not a part of any camp, this isn't some "my theme camp/project is worth more than you" statement.

late wrote:Just a thought. What if, during the burn, theme camps are given certificates for x amount of NONtransferrable tickets, tied to name and ID. That way your core participants are guaranteed tickets.

I hesitate to be elitist in any way, but if a camp can't get it's members there, it will cease being a camp...

This could still be done for this year in a haphazard way, where camps get some preferable treatment to get their core members tickets.

Just a thought and trying to help out!

--Alex

Yeah can't get behind this. Honestly though I do believe that theme camps ARE important, I can't really remember ANY particular camp over the years that was better than another by name. I'm not the kind of guy that spends the whole week hanging out at a particular location, I prefer random encounters.

Art installations, though, I think are different. The big projects are CRUCIAL to our community, as are the core Volunteers that make the event possible. I think everything else though can exist a little bit in flux...

You say potato, I say (eff you!) potatoe.

In the years to come, if we did witness a large problem, like there's too many camps, therefore we're watered down (wait, that's already happening?) then perhaps they could "sponsor" a limited number of camps each year chosen by, you guessed it, lottery - or some other not too preferential criteria. That would ensure at least that some of the larger camps on esplanade can pull off their outrageously eeeeviilllll plans...

Even mutant vehicles, due to a limited number of permits, have to apply for a permit, and not everyone gets licensed on the playa. But the application process allows the Borg to make a decision up front about whether or not a vehicle idea appears to have merit. It's flawed, but at times is a better solution to having an unlimited number of them where the quality is not guaranteed.