Jeremy Brent Cramer (38) killed his 3 year old son because his wife wouldn't let him take a road trip

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Oh, fuck this guy. He didn't accidentally take 60 fucking Adderall pills. He deliberately did it to get fucked up so he could express his rage. Diminished capacity my ass. If you have to get loaded to get up the gumption to be a fucking prick, you're still the fucking prick who did it.

You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

I agree Bowie. What are the chances he disposed of the pills somewhere off the side of the road and faked this shit? He walked quite a bit. It could be anywhere. Wonder if they do a tox screen on someone like that after arrest since they are acting strange, you know to rule shit out.

Oh, fuck this guy. He didn't accidentally take 60 fucking Adderall pills. He deliberately did it to get fucked up so he could express his rage. Diminished capacity my ass. If you have to get loaded to get up the gumption to be a fucking prick, you're still the fucking prick who did it.

I don't see where it says "accidentally" anywhere...seems from what I have read that he took them on purpose.

"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
"Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
"it is what it is!"

Oh, I know. I'm just saying I, personally, find that to be total garbage, just like how you get away with murder if you drunk drive. Fuck that. You knew you got somewhere and had to drive home, and you still started drinking. You are responsible for getting yourself into that state.

You slept with mike so he would ban me. change your sig..the pretentious look how hipster face is so old ooh you like guys with glasses..ooooh

His brother told the cops the guy is a former meth user who was doctor-shopping to get prescriptions for Adderal. Adderall is methamphetamine. Addicts know what to tell doctors to get dx'd with ADD and get a script. He took the pills to get high but OD'd and put himself into a drug-induced psychosis (IMHO.)

His brother told the cops the guy is a former meth user who was doctor-shopping to get prescriptions for Adderal. Adderall is methamphetamine. Addicts know what to tell doctors to get dx'd with ADD and get a script. He took the pills to get high but OD'd and put himself into a drug-induced psychosis (IMHO.)

Forgive the small correction. Adderall is a amphetamine. Not a methamphetimine.

"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
"Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
"it is what it is!"

Forgive the small correction. Adderall is a amphetamine. Not a methamphetimine.

Same damn difference you can tweak out on Adderall just the same as meth. No disrespect intended. It might as well be meth. I get the same damn looks as a meth head does going to pick this up at the pharmacy. It fucks your skin up. It fucks your teeth up. I have spent close to $10,000 on my teeth undoing some of the damage that Adderall has done. It is some gnarly shit and I'm on a very low dose.

Last edited by queenaevadamthng; 07-23-2013 at 07:59 PM.

"Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

They are definitely both amphetamines and this guy was using Adderal as a substitute for meth, according to his brother. I didn't know that stuff about Adderall affecting your skin and teeth like meth, that's interesting. Sorry you have to deal with that.

I'm sorry that this idiot abused Adderall the way he did and killed that baby. But you know (Not defending by any means) I can definitely see how it could happen. I have gone into rages before looking for a shoe and for a second it feels like I was watching someone else and then I was able to catch myself and say "Calm down, just wear another pair!" So I can only imagine that the slightest thing set this guy off and it was over and done before he knew what he had done. But...he knowingly took all those pills knowing he would tweak and probably being familiar with the effects. And you don't do anything that is going to diminish your capacity when you are caring for a child. No different from getting totally shitfaced on booze, loading the kid in the car and wrecking it and killing the kid.

"Theoretical physics can prove that an elephant can hang from a cliff with its tail tied to a daisy. But use your eyes, your common sense".... JIM GARRISON

Nah, don't blame the drug for his horrible actions. He had to already have something wrong with him mentally...

I disagree. 12 Adderall a day give or take can make someone psychotic who may not have had any type of mental illness that would cause such a horrible tragedy to happen. I understand that he took the meds of his own free will but I am on the fence about whether or not he was in his right state of mind when he killed his child. He stated that "we" (he and his child) were having hallucinations. And that Brody was like some other child on his neck (paraphrase) and that it wasn't Brody. He also stated that he could not comprehend reality while talking to his father. I'll say it again, pretty compelling statements for an insanity plea. JMO.

"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
"Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
"it is what it is!"

Yes, but when he was talking to his father from jail, was he still high on that drug? He wasn't taking Adderall, he was taking something similar. I would like to know what drug to be exact, then we can discuss from there. I think he was already mentally unstable.

I disagree. 12 Adderall a day give or take can make someone psychotic who may not have had any type of mental illness that would cause such a horrible tragedy to happen. I understand that he took the meds of his own free will but I am on the fence about whether or not he was in his right state of mind when he killed his child. He stated that "we" (he and his child) were having hallucinations. And that Brody was like some other child on his neck (paraphrase) and that it wasn't Brody. He also stated that he could not comprehend reality while talking to his father. I'll say it again, pretty compelling statements for an insanity plea. JMO.

He chose to take the drugs. It was his fault he was having hallucinations in the first place. And saying that Brody was like some other child...??? So it's OK to beat some other kid to death, just not your own?

Yes, but when he was talking to his father from jail, was he still high on that drug? He wasn't taking Adderall, he was taking something similar. I would like to know what drug to be exact, then we can discuss from there. I think he was already mentally unstable.

Something similar? Where are you getting this from? He had an empty Adderal bottle on him.

yeah, but he could have gotten rid of the pills anywhere. maybe he didn't take them and is just trying to use that as an excuse for what he did. has anyone seen anything about blood tests he may have had done? i want to know what his blood levels were.

Originally Posted by Ron_NYC

I want to kiss your lips. Both sets.

* wow you truly are the sterial cunt here are yo not.I fuckin hate you cunt* - Loonywop
★ take the sig down ★ - Loonywop

He chose to take the drugs. It was his fault he was having hallucinations in the first place. And saying that Brody was like some other child...??? So it's OK to beat some other kid to death, just not your own?

Where in my post did I say it was "ok?" Whether or not it was his choice to take the drug it will still be argued by the defense that he did not understand what he was doing....Lot's of people choose to drink and drive, take to many pills and most of the time they do not end up murdering folks. He took a drug that can cause severe paranoia and can cause psychosis. I am not posting a personal opinion here just what I think the argument from the defense will be.

"Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; They listen with the intent to reply." ~ anonymous
"Keep calm and sing Soft Kitty"
"it is what it is!"

A Washington state man pleaded not guilty Wednesday to beating and stabbing to death his 3-year-old son in a southwestern Montana field this month after taking him from their Lacey home.

Jeremy Brent Cramer, 38, was arraigned in District Court in Anaconda, about five miles from where Broderick Cramer's body was found July 9 next to a knife and two rocks covered with blood and hair.

The 38-year-old Cramer, wearing a black-and-white striped jumpsuit and orange sandals, spoke only once to answer Judge John Larson affirmatively that he understood his rights.

Public defender Walter Hennessey entered an initial not guilty plea to a charge of deliberate homicide, telling Larson he didn't want to prejudice any possible defenses.

Larson presided over the arraignment by videoconference from Missoula County. He said he will submit the plea to District Judge Loren Tucker of Dillon, who has been assigned the case.

After the five-minute hearing, Cramer was escorted back to the Anaconda-Deer Lodge County jail, where he is being held on $250,000 bail.

Hennessey declined to speak about the case or Cramer after the hearing.

Cramer was arrested July 8 after a convenience store clerk in Anaconda discovered him in the restroom, washing blood from his clothes. Cramer's wife, Nataliya, had told Lacey police earlier in the day that her husband had taken their son and had not responded to numerous phone calls and text messages.

Investigators found Broderick's body the next morning.

Police found bloody keys and a knife on Cramer, along with an empty container for a generic substitute of the stimulant Adderall, according to court documents filed by prosecutors. The label on the container said the prescription had been filled only five days before.

Cramer's brother, Jon Cramer, told police his brother was a former methamphetamine addict who had been "doctor shopping" for a physician who would provide him with Adderall.

Cramer phoned his father after he was arrested and told him in the recorded call that he ran out of gas and he started walking down the rural road with his son on his shoulders, according to prosecutors.

A partial transcript of the phone call says Cramer told his father he killed his own son, and he didn't know why. He asked "Why did I take all my pills?" according to the transcript.

The deliberate homicide charge can carry the death penalty or life in prison. County Attorney Ben Krakowka has not said whether he intends to pursue the death penalty