So, I'm toying with the idea of starting a Pfitz 18/70 plan in a few weeks to train for a Sept marathon, and I'm wondering what to use for training paces. Should I just plug my times from a recent race into McMillan and use those paces? I have a couple of recent halfs and I have a 5k coming up on Saturday that I can use. This will be my first time using a structured plan. Thanks.

But you're a lot faster than me. So maybe I should try to slow down some more. Altho, like I said, all my runs right now are easy, so the only hard workouts I get are when I race, or if I do something like the hilly 16 miler I did a few weeks ago (I don't normally run hills, so it took a good bit out of me), and now looking back my 6 miles the next day was at 9:48/mile, forgot about that. So I'm thinking that with doing hard workouts on a regular basis, my recovery runs will be slower than they are now.

So I'm thinking that with doing hard workouts on a regular basis, my recovery runs will be slower than they are now.

I think this is exactly how you should be thinking going in to it. It's a lot of mileage for you, the mid-week medium and tempo runs take their toll after a few weeks, and the plan only has one off day a week. You are going to be happy to run your recovery runs slow.

“What counts is not necessarily the size of the dog in the fight – it’s the fight in the dog. – Dwight D. Eisenhower

What Julia said. Don't even talk about McMillan paces. Most of the time, his paces are too fast for me yet I can race the times he predicts (except for the marathon for asthma reasons). As you increase the miles and do Pfitz (which I think it's a pretty tough training program), you'll see yourself slowing down your recovery runs more. And remember you'll be training in the Summer so you'll need to adjust your effort and the pace. The error will be if you try to keep up with McMillan as your body is telling you to slow down.

One thing that I learned from Pfitz is that his GA runs are not easy runs. They are like an in between a tempo and an easy run.

I know the topic might be highly contested, but I recommend a HR monitor. I run by HR but you don't have to. What you can use it for is to analyze the run post run and see if you were within the ranges.

Sorry if I turned this into a you run too fast thread. That was not my intent. I just pulled that 9:00 out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's pretty close. Just remember to run by feel, like you already do. Recovery pace could be 8:30 today, but maybe 9:30 on Friday if the cement in your legs gets too heavy.

Sorry if I turned this into a you run too fast thread. That was not my intent. I just pulled that 9:00 out of thin air, but I'd imagine that's pretty close. Just remember to run by feel, like you already do. Recovery pace could be 8:30 today, but maybe 9:30 on Friday if the cement in your legs gets too heavy.

Good luck!

No worries I'll just have to make sure that during my training I stay focused and keep all of my easy runs easy. Even if I'm feeling good that day, can't just let my legs go like I do now, because I know that there's going to be a hard workout coming up and I'll need to be ready for it.

One thing that I learned from Pfitz is that his GA runs are not easy runs. They are like an in between a tempo and an easy run.

Yes, this is a distinction that most plans don't make. I used Pfitzinger for years, I think 10+ cycles, before giving Hansons a try this spring. I found I missed the GA runs. However, I would say they are definitely supposed to be closer to easy than to tempo. To me they're sort of just ordinary running, not too fast, not too slow. Whereas with easy/recovery, the focus is simply putting in some miles & getting some blood flow without pushing yourself at all.

FWIW when on Pfitzinger I'm around 5:55 - 6:00 for VO2Max stuff, 6:25 - 6:35 for tempo, 6:45 - 6:50 for MP, 7:30 - 8:00 for general aerobic, 8:45+ for recovery, for a three-hourish marathoner.

Yes, this is a distinction that most plans don't make. I used Pfitzinger for years, I think 10+ cycles, before giving Hansons a try this spring. I found I missed the GA runs. However, I would say they are definitely supposed to be closer to easy than to tempo. To me they're sort of just ordinary running, not too fast, not too slow. Whereas with easy/recovery, the focus is simply putting in some miles & getting some blood flow without pushing yourself at all.

FWIW when on Pfitzinger I'm around 5:55 - 6:00 for VO2Max stuff, 6:25 - 6:35 for tempo, 6:45 - 6:50 for MP, 7:30 - 8:00 for general aerobic, 8:45+ for recovery, for a three-hourish marathoner.

So GA is kind of how I run now, just whatever easy pace my legs feel like doing that day. Not forcing myself to go slow, but also not pushing to stay on pace.

I've used P &D for all 3 marathons I have run in the last 13 months and had a personal best on all of them. My last was the London marathon on Sunday where I finished 2:55. I run all long and medium runs at 20% slower than mp for the first half then 10 % slower for the second half. So an example for my 2:55 is 18 mile run = 9 miles @ 7:48 then 9 miles @ 7:09. The recovery run I use a heart rate monitor and don't go above 65%. General runs at 70-75% using a heart rate monitor. When I am past the base building stage I then throw in some progression runs for the long & mprogressing so an example would be 15 miles split into 3 x 5 I start at 20% above mp then drop 25 - 30 secs of each 5 mile block. It certainly has worked for me. I've been tempted to use hanson but why change something if it works.

I've used P &D for all 3 marathons I have run in the last 13 months and had a personal best on all of them. My last was the London marathon on Sunday where I finished 2:55. I run all long and medium runs at 20% slower than mp for the first half then 10 % slower for the second half. So an example for my 2:55 is 18 mile run = 9 miles @ 7:48 then 9 miles @ 7:09. The recovery run I use a heart rate monitor and don't go above 65%. General runs at 70-75% using a heart rate monitor. When I am past the base building stage I then throw in some progression runs for the long & medium so an example would be 15 miles split into 3 x 5 I start at 20% above mp then drop 25 - 30 secs of each 5 mile block. It certainly has worked for me. I've been tempted to use hanson but why change something if it works.