I acknowledge your view, but i must state we never saw it leave. If you ever watched old american cartoons, the male heart pounds visibly when lusting. He could thus still be battering a heart he might prefer to be kind to, for logical reasons. Is that really so bad?

In this comic, hearts have departed chests many times; it's happened to Slick almost regularly. It stands to reason that in this case, Rational Man is beating up his own heart because it felt an emotion. It makes no sense to presume that the heart belongs to somebody else.

I acknowledge we have beheld transient hearts, but this heart never left. Of course im supposed to take some view almost as extreme as i live, but i just cant logicaly defend my extreme feminist lifestyle.

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it. And I fully agree that rape can still happen between married people today, though I do think there would have to be more problems than that for it to happen. We fully agree what should have always been the case, women in a marriage is a partnership, not an ownership. Though in that partnership, trust is needed as well. Trust that there will be full consent between the two, and that neither will stray to another person while in this partnership._________________The Angry Asshat.

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it.

They do. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or say.

Again, if you would read the links I give you, the Wikipedia article on marital rape says this about the US:

Quote:

States where there continue to be significant differences in the treatment of marital rape and non marital rape include Ohio, Idaho, Connecticut, Virginia, Oklahoma, Nevada, Maryland, Mississippi and especially South Carolina.

If you read just past that it will get into detail about those different states.

Please actually read something before responding to me this time. I'm getting tired of TL;DR-ing these very informative links for you. If you have the time to argue with us without being informed, then surely you have the time to inform yourself before arguing at all. It will also have the added bonus of making you know what you're talking about, which is always nice._________________Men and patriarchy aren't interchangeable.

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it.

They do. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or say.

Again, if you would read the links I give you, the Wikipedia article on marital rape says this about the US:

Quote:

States where there continue to be significant differences in the treatment of marital rape and non marital rape include Ohio, Idaho, Connecticut, Virginia, Oklahoma, Nevada, Maryland, Mississippi and especially South Carolina.

If you read just past that it will get into detail about those different states.

Please actually read something before responding to me this time. I'm getting tired of TL;DR-ing these very informative links for you. If you have the time to argue with us without being informed, then surely you have the time to inform yourself before arguing at all. It will also have the added bonus of making you know what you're talking about, which is always nice.

Yes, and what I'm failing to convey is that I do not believe that a normal everyday male would purposefully rape his wife today. I see that some of these states have fucked up laws about rape, but the people doing it have to be more fucked up than the laws. Like mississippi, it's not rape if it's not conscious, I mean what the fuck!?_________________The Angry Asshat.

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it.

They do. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or say.

Again, if you would read the links I give you, the Wikipedia article on marital rape says this about the US:

Quote:

States where there continue to be significant differences in the treatment of marital rape and non marital rape include Ohio, Idaho, Connecticut, Virginia, Oklahoma, Nevada, Maryland, Mississippi and especially South Carolina.

If you read just past that it will get into detail about those different states.

Please actually read something before responding to me this time. I'm getting tired of TL;DR-ing these very informative links for you. If you have the time to argue with us without being informed, then surely you have the time to inform yourself before arguing at all. It will also have the added bonus of making you know what you're talking about, which is always nice.

Yes, and what I'm failing to convey is that I do not believe that a normal everyday male would purposefully rape his wife today. I see that some of these states have fucked up laws about rape, but the people doing it have to be more fucked up than the laws. Like mississippi, it's not rape if it's not conscious, I mean what the fuck!? I will admit these laws should change but you don't have to be a feminist to see that!_________________The Angry Asshat.

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it.

They do. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or say.

Again, if you would read the links I give you, the Wikipedia article on marital rape says this about the US:

Quote:

States where there continue to be significant differences in the treatment of marital rape and non marital rape include Ohio, Idaho, Connecticut, Virginia, Oklahoma, Nevada, Maryland, Mississippi and especially South Carolina.

If you read just past that it will get into detail about those different states.

Please actually read something before responding to me this time. I'm getting tired of TL;DR-ing these very informative links for you. If you have the time to argue with us without being informed, then surely you have the time to inform yourself before arguing at all. It will also have the added bonus of making you know what you're talking about, which is always nice.

Yes, and what I'm failing to convey is that I do not believe that a normal everyday male would purposefully rape his wife today. I see that some of these states have fucked up laws about rape, but the people doing it have to be more fucked up than the laws. Like mississippi, it's not rape if it's not conscious, I mean what the fuck!?

Why don't you believe a 'normal, everyday male' would commit rape? Do you believe that rapists are non-human monsters who grew up in a vaccuum?_________________::crisis mode::

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it.

They do. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or say.

Again, if you would read the links I give you, the Wikipedia article on marital rape says this about the US:

Quote:

States where there continue to be significant differences in the treatment of marital rape and non marital rape include Ohio, Idaho, Connecticut, Virginia, Oklahoma, Nevada, Maryland, Mississippi and especially South Carolina.

If you read just past that it will get into detail about those different states.

Please actually read something before responding to me this time. I'm getting tired of TL;DR-ing these very informative links for you. If you have the time to argue with us without being informed, then surely you have the time to inform yourself before arguing at all. It will also have the added bonus of making you know what you're talking about, which is always nice.

Yes, and what I'm failing to convey is that I do not believe that a normal everyday male would purposefully rape his wife today. I see that some of these states have fucked up laws about rape, but the people doing it have to be more fucked up than the laws. Like mississippi, it's not rape if it's not conscious, I mean what the fuck!?

Why don't you believe a 'normal, everyday male' would commit rape? Do you believe that rapists are non-human monsters who grew up in a vaccuum?

I wonder if Rothide is aware of rape statistics. Probably not._________________Men and patriarchy aren't interchangeable.

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it. And I fully agree that rape can still happen between married people today, though I do think there would have to be more problems than that for it to happen. We fully agree what should have always been the case, women in a marriage is a partnership, not an ownership. Though in that partnership, trust is needed as well. Trust that there will be full consent between the two, and that neither will stray to another person while in this partnership.

That's great that you believe that. Good on you for communicating with your wife.

Please be aware that many people are not you, and many people do not share your views. They abuse and terrorize their spouses. It's an actual thing actual people have to deal with._________________::crisis mode::

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it. And I fully agree that rape can still happen between married people today, though I do think there would have to be more problems than that for it to happen. We fully agree what should have always been the case, women in a marriage is a partnership, not an ownership. Though in that partnership, trust is needed as well. Trust that there will be full consent between the two, and that neither will stray to another person while in this partnership.

Curious - what problems do you think tend to be present when rape happens in a marriage? What do you think causes rape when people are not married?_________________::crisis mode::

I'm sorry I wasn't talking about the past, I was talking about today, yes in the past it was considered a right to have sex with your spouse even if she didn't want it, and that was horrible. But my examples are about now, how you say that even now they get off easier when they do it.

They do. I'm not sure what you're trying to ask or say.

Again, if you would read the links I give you, the Wikipedia article on marital rape says this about the US:

Quote:

States where there continue to be significant differences in the treatment of marital rape and non marital rape include Ohio, Idaho, Connecticut, Virginia, Oklahoma, Nevada, Maryland, Mississippi and especially South Carolina.

If you read just past that it will get into detail about those different states.

Please actually read something before responding to me this time. I'm getting tired of TL;DR-ing these very informative links for you. If you have the time to argue with us without being informed, then surely you have the time to inform yourself before arguing at all. It will also have the added bonus of making you know what you're talking about, which is always nice.

Yes, and what I'm failing to convey is that I do not believe that a normal everyday male would purposefully rape his wife today. I see that some of these states have fucked up laws about rape, but the people doing it have to be more fucked up than the laws. Like mississippi, it's not rape if it's not conscious, I mean what the fuck!?

Why don't you believe a 'normal, everyday male' would commit rape? Do you believe that rapists are non-human monsters who grew up in a vaccuum?

I wonder if Rothide is aware of rape statistics. Probably not.

Hey, Rothide, what do you know about rape statistics?_________________::crisis mode::

Yes, and what I'm failing to convey is that I do not believe that a normal everyday male would purposefully rape his wife today. I see that some of these states have fucked up laws about rape, but the people doing it have to be more fucked up than the laws. Like mississippi, it's not rape if it's not conscious, I mean what the fuck!?

And yet this is exactly how fucked up the situation between the genders is. A "normal everyday male" might not purposefully rape his wife, but plenty of married women have been--and are still today being--raped by their husbands, by the men who swore to protect and to provide, to love, honor, and cherish, them. Does it happen in every marriage? No, of course not. Does it happen in enough marriages that the numbers will shock, disgust, and possibly even sicken you? If you are a man who holds manhood to be a noble ideal and who takes pride in how you reach for that ideal, then, yes, most likely; keep a bucket at hand as you read of what still gets swept under the carpets, these days. And, yes, there are states which effectively contradict themselves in the definition of statutory rape, seemingly to protect married men from what, by mere sense, should clearly be a charge of raping a woman who could not give consent at the time of the act. Now think what that would mean if you had a teen-aged daughter in Mississippi, and her date had a sandwich baggie full of Rohypnol...

It is that bad, Rothide. Read, and know: these are truths that will haunt you.

On the plus side, though, you'd be hard-pressed to find stronger and worthier allies.

And, you're right: I don't consider myself a feminist, either, but even I can see the injustices, here, that cannot be left to stand.

Take your time, and don't expect a complete reversal of all of your views. Also, don't expect that you can't be called out on attitudes or ideas that have been deeply ingrained into men like you and I from the cradle forward--"truths" from our greatest authorities in our lives, that we never, ever thought to question. Small eye-openings, small changes, day-by-day, add up to tremendous change over the years and across the population.

It is better to solve a small something--even something so small as to open ones own mind to a new truth--than to solve nothing via a comfortable complacency._________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

Um, Stripey? Seriously. Let's not try to make the poor guy throw up tonight, 'kay?_________________I am only a somewhat arbitrary sequence of raised and lowered voltages to which your mind insists upon assigning meaning

Not much, I admit again. But with the way your describing it and wondering how I could think his way, is it like some People go, "oh look, it's rape oclock, after this I gotta do some shopping." I would think that a history of abuse would be there, either given to the person, or the person doing it to others. Or a hatred of women, that you want to hurt them as much as possible._________________The Angry Asshat.

Well, Christianity, even though men are considered the head of the household, women hold power as well, they are our counselors, providing the information that we need to come with a decision. Their important to us. I believe they are equal in fact, God used women as Judges, Prophets, and they took care of the property and decided the business deals. In pretty much everything they were equal. Thus I feel they should be treated as equals today as well.

That's kinda where I get women should be treated equally, it may explain a lot of things though. I know my religion gets a lot of flak for the rules others get from their interpretation of our religious book. But just like there are those certain Baptists, there are normal people too.

FYI: You and your wife happily, willingly interact with each other in the roles which have been prescribed to you. Many people have no need or wish to fill those roles, and in fact are very happy doing other things. If you are happy, awesome. But you have to understand that your life is not the only life.

Consider this also: FLDS girls are pretty much taught that they are worthless, and that their only hope of surviving is to be totally subservient to men. They aren't to have opinions or thoughts of their own. Men have different roles, but they generally believe they are doing good because they steward the women. If the men doing the stewarding are abusive, what are the girls supposed to do about it? Their faith tells them to do anything and everything that they are told._________________::crisis mode::

Well, Christianity, even though men are considered the head of the household, women hold power as well, they are our counselors, providing the information that we need to come with a decision. Their important to us. I believe they are equal in fact, God used women as Judges, Prophets, and they took care of the property and decided the business deals. In pretty much everything they were equal. Thus I feel they should be treated as equals today as well.

That's kinda where I get women should be treated equally, it may explain a lot of things though. I know my religion gets a lot of flak for the rules others get from their interpretation of our religious book. But just like there are those certain Baptists, there are normal people too.

FYI: You and your wife happily, willingly interact with each other in the roles which have been prescribed to you. Many people have no need or wish to fill those roles, and in fact are very happy doing other things. If you are happy, awesome. But you have to understand that your life is not the only life.

Consider this also: FLDS girls are pretty much taught that they are worthless, and that their only hope of surviving is to be totally subservient to men. They aren't to have opinions or thoughts of their own. Men have different roles, but they generally believe they are doing good because they steward the women. If the men doing the stewarding are abusive, what are the girls supposed to do about it? Their faith tells them to do anything and everything that they are told.

Well that is a fringe religious group too, so fringe we usually don't believe they are truly saved or believe in the same lord we do. They are like the christian version of let's castrate all men so they can't rape anymore feminists_________________The Angry Asshat.