September 24, 2012

Said Eric Stonestreet, who just won an Emmy for best actor in a comedy for "Modern Family," which I've never seen, but I'd heard of Stonestreet, because I indulge in the guilty pleasure of reading The Daily Mail, and it had pictures of the beautiful actress Charlize Theron purportedly in a relationship with this man. She's "said to have fallen" for him. Okay. Looks aren't everything.

I first saw an image of Theron in Monster. My wife kept telling me how beautiful she actually was. It took me a long time to realize these were the same people. Still, my male ego of wanting all beautiful women to myself has to be salvaged, somehow. Especially when seen snuggling up to the guy who OBVIOUSLY doesn't deserve her.

Maybe blaming the witty, intelligent guy is a better way of saving my ego.

I indulge in the guilty pleasure of reading The Daily Mail, and it had pictures of the beautiful actress Charlize Theron purportedly in a relationship with this man. She's "said to have fallen" for him. Okay. Looks aren't everything.

There are no objective standards of beauty. You don't know the sort of people that Theron is attracted to her.

If you're saying she couldn't purportedly be attracted to him because he is overweight, that is a disgusting thing to think.

I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting her. Is it really possible that she believes overweight people are inherently unattractive? That Theron would only date Stonestreet in spite of his appearance?

This sort of thing happened to me. I dated very little in college and medical school; I had a conservative Christian attitude about recreational sex that I took seriously, did not want to commit to a relationship, and did not want to lie in order to get sex. Since I focused my energy on non-relationship things, I simply didn't date much. And, since I was an extreme introvert with a few strong relationships, I'm was a happy camper.

When I was in residency and graduate school, I started looking for a wife. I dated a lot, going out with three or four women a week. I had a triage system -- a group of women who I thought were decent prospects, who I went out with more often, a group of women under evaluation, and a group of new women I was just getting to know.

I'm not particularly good looking, and while not a "beta,"extreme introverts like me are often mistaken as such (an advantage when dealing with competition that underestimates you, but a disadvantage in some social situations). However, I never had a problem getting dates.

After a few months of this intensive dating I noticed a pattern. Almost all of the women who were the most interested in me were women who were either on the older side of the group I was going out with and/or divorced or long out of a longstanding relationship.

I was also open about dating multiple women simultaneously, and many of the women knew each other, so I asked a few of them about it (including my -- now -- wife of 23 years). They all said about the same thing -- had they been 10 years younger, they would never have given me the time of day. I wasn't flashy, I wasn't pretty, and I wasn't cool. However, now that they were older, they were looking for personality and lifestyle features that were more supportive and dependable than exciting. They didn't mistake "bad boy" stuff for real strength, and they valued integrity, dependability, and, of all things, my sense of humor. They appreciated someone who was considerate -- who opened doors and who was thoughtful in other areas of the relationship as well. For these women, looks didn't come in last, but it was only a middle-ranked criterion.

Eventually these beauty queens, if they are not terminally narcissistic, learn that the pretty boys and bad boys simply don't give them what they really want.

I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting her. Is it really possible that she believes overweight people are inherently unattractive? That Theron would only date Stonestreet in spite of his appearance?

Is there some other way to interpret her comment?

I think she's surprised to see who "this man" is ... it wasn't what she'd expected to be matched with Theron ... and that he is not a 'looker.'

I just want to make sure I'm not misinterpreting her. Is it really possible that she believes overweight people are inherently unattractive? That Theron would only date Stonestreet in spite of his appearance?

Is there some other way to interpret her comment?

Accordingly, is Andy trying to tell us that so many gay men work to keep themselves thin (I'd say more so than hetero men) exclusively for personal reasons, not because it is more attractive to the same sex?

You're talking about groups, and Ann is talking about an individual. I have no doubt that there are cultural standards of beauty in America, and among certain subgroups in America. Ann made the leap of suggesting (if I read her right), that every single person was (should be) in agreement with those standards that overweight people are unattractive.

Saying that, in general, gay men in America prefer skinnier people is basically accurate, although there are all kinds of important exceptions, such as the bear community. Saying that an individual gay man couldn't be attracted to someone who is overweight because overweight people are inherently unattractive is what is disgusting.

In the linked picture, the guy is very odd-looking, sure someone might find him physically attractive, but you cannot deny that he is, objectively, not handsome - in the linked picture. Althouse never said anything about fat - you brought it up, which I assume is because of your personal situation.

Nice try, "I am reading something into Althouse's post that isn't really apparent, and she can clarify if I am wrong."

She has no obligation to disabuse you, and her silence (if she chooses to ignore you) doesn't mean you are right or wrong. That's a trap that we are all familiar with: "I'm going to tie you up by claiming x, unless you disagree."

Also, in the first picture at the link, (hint, hint -- the one where he is posing with Theron), face looks like it is about 1/2 the size it should be for the size of his head. Maybe that is a bad picture, but comparing him to Theron (which wouldn't be really fair for most mortals), there is a glaring disparity in objective good looks.

I've read a fair amount about the ways that gay men are portrayed on tv, and what the stereotypes are and how different characters transcend these stereotypes. I've never seen Cam described as weird looking or ugly. Perhaps a lot of people think this and aren't saying it. Maybe it's just you and Althouse. Maybe it's just you, and Althouse wasn't implying he has a weird looking face, like you think she might have been. He does get described as fat, though. All the time. Because he is fat. Here is a google image search for Eric Stonestreet.

Althouse in her post, implies that there is something about his appearance that should be a problem for Charlize Theron. And she does it in a way that she expects all of us to know what she is talking about without her saying it. It's possible that she meant he has a weird face and she thought all of us would realize that. I think it's more likely that she was referring to his weight, which is one of the most obvious things about his appearance, and something that many people comment on. And there is obviously a cultural idea that someone hot like Charlize Theron wouldn't be dating someone fat. Perhaps I was wrong to think Althouse was referencing that common cultural trope.

This also wouldn't be the first time Althouse has used someone's weight to criticize them.

Now, what's attractive in men to women is a different story. The article goes on to say it's all about power, status, etc., over looks. That attracts the gals (which explains a lot, as I've never been able to figure out what in a man attracts women, looks wise).

Regarding beauty in the eye of the homosexual, who can say? The reproduction angle isn't there, at least not immediately apparently there.