it doesnt matter what the drop rate is for 25man.. its probably going to be just like in DS with the random trinket drops. if you raid 25man, everyone will get their trinket, if you raid in 10man, only acouple people will get the trinket for the entire tier. i can see this being the same; 25man getting all their thunderforged gear a hell of alot faster than in 10man if at all.

People did more 25s in ICC times because there was no other option. Even supercasual guilds felt nudged in the 25 direction - the fact of the matter is that 10man today is more popular. Period. I get it, I loved 25, it was awesome. But it was awesome while it lasted. I love my 10man guild, I love I can progress with it, despite the drawbacks (RNG on loot, mostly - an advantage 25 already has).

I don't see why anyone wants to cling on ye olde ways. If you love 25 that much, you can 25 - if you don't, well, you don't. Why should 25 have extra rewards beyond what already exists to begin with?

I don't think this is the proper incentive for 25 mans. They should be rewarded better. I wasn't playing during ICC, but the community really dropped the ball there it seems like. I'm in a 10 man guild and in no way, shape or form do I think having MUCH better incentives for 25 man is a 'bad' thing, that somehow will hurt my experience of raiding.

You guys done goofed man, and the result is the decline of 25s... Blizzard looks like they have no idea how to fix the problem, on top of that. What is the thinking behind this? Omg let's all disband our 10s and go to 25s because there's a MORE THAN SLIGHT chance that the items drops are thunderforged? This is not realistic and thus not a proper incentive to maintain 25 mans.

Honestly, I think the concept is flawed from the start. You can't cater to two types of raiding almost equally when the effort to maintain one is much higher than the other.

And half a dozen bosses you forgot to mention, being the clueless average retard you are.
Stone Guard
Garalon
Amber Shaper
Shek'zeer
Protectors of the Endless

You must be stupid. Stone guards means you have 1 less ability to deal with, less damage going out, and makes juggling the energy meters on the dogs much more simple. In heroic it's even easier, hell you get a 1/4 chance to dodge a mechanic that is annoying to deal with since jade is just ae raid damage
Garalon is much easier on 10m, the damage requirement is much lower and theirs less raid damage, on top of the kiting situation being much easier.
Ambershaper This is fight is probably the same on 10 and 25, constructs are the same, monstrosity has less life so stacking the debuff is easier, also explosions mean less people to top off.
Shekzeer. Only 1 person gets visions in 10man, I don't see how that makes it harder, with only one person to dispel, losing people being feared out is not that big of an issue. Also ads don't even need to be prisoned because of their low total health, they can actually be tanked next to shekzeer since there is only one ad phase.
Protectors is not harder, its on par for elite and normal. The only real qustionable fight would be tsulong, and thats solely on the day phase where ad management and assignments require raiders to rotate more.

So 10m is harder because you have to get 10 skilled people together with the right composition?... ok... so when it requires you get 2.5x the number of skilled people together then it suddenly gets much easier of course. I don't see the logic.

Earth to funny guy:
10M is harder. Period. You need the skill level of each player in the 10M to be significantly higher than the average skill level in a 25M just because of all the advantages you gain. Not even having to worry about the raid buffs because you will always have every buff and debuff as a natural product of 25. 10M you actually have to craft your composition instead of throwing a bunch of driveling RANDOS together.

You get more gear in 25, 8 more pieces per week for 16 bosses (or did they already raise it to 16?).
You have the ability to carry a bunch of weaker DPS in 25, in 10 you might be able to carry 1.
You can class stack in 25M, not an option in 10M.

Name the advantages to 10M over 25M.
I can think of 2, attendance and less crybabies.

As an addition to the loot system, to make things more interesting, I think that it is nice. However I don't see it changing things that much for the popularity of 25-man guilds.

Something drastic would have to happen for things to change, not soft changes. 10-man guilds already have a gear disadvantage compared to 25-man guilds, and that hasn't stopped them from being overwhelmingly more popular. And this is just another slight gear disadvantage, not even as big as the existing one. Perhaps if the drop was almost guaranteed in 25-man and rare in 10-man. But still. It seems like not a satisfying insentive.

Earth to funny guy:
10M is harder. Period. You need the skill level of each player in the 10M to be significantly higher than the average skill level in a 25M just because of all the advantages you gain. Not even having to worry about the raid buffs because you will always have every buff and debuff as a natural product of 25. 10M you actually have to craft your composition instead of throwing a bunch of driveling RANDOS together.

You get more gear in 25, 8 more pieces per week for 16 bosses.
You have the ability to carry a bunch of weaker DPS in 25, in 10 you might be able to carry 1.
You can class stack in 25M, not an option in 10M.

Name the advantages to 10M over 25M.
I can think of 2, attendance and less crybabies.

Myth Busted.

Try doing that on 25man garalon prenerf.

We had 6 people on average 200k dps for the full 6min fight and the rest at 80k and we did not kill garalon. We also had healers kiting pheromones to give ranged dps more standing dps. Also stacked 6 shamans for six stormlash, and 4 warriors for a 4 crit banner rotation. We had to clear on 10 so we could work on progression for wind lord. Please stop talking. 10m garalong was such a cake walk.

I am not sure I agree with Blizzard on this one. It doesn't really fix the problem because there can still be some situations if RNG is good were 10 man guilds can gear up in Thunderforged faster than 25 mans. It just feels like another band aid for the problem and not a solid solution. They just added more RNG to the game which was not needed, especially not in regards to loot and it just adds more things to gem, enchant, reforge, transmog and whatever else.

How are they getting fucked over? 10 man raiders are still getting a chance at Thunderforged items, they'll just drop less frequently. I only raid LFR for now but I'm not jumping out going "BAWWWWWL LFR RAIDERS GET BENT OVER".

I agree with the change and see absolutely no reason anyone should get bent out of shape over it.

You must be stupid. Stone guards means you have 1 less ability to deal with, less damage going out, and makes juggling the energy meters on the dogs much more simple. In heroic it's even easier, hell you get a 1/4 chance to dodge a mechanic that is annoying to deal with since jade is just ae raid damage
Garalon is much easier on 10m, the damage requirement is much lower and theirs less raid damage, on top of the kiting situation being much easier.
Ambershaper This is fight is probably the same on 10 and 25, constructs are the same, monstrosity has less life so stacking the debuff is easier, also explosions mean less people to top off.
Shekzeer. Only 1 person gets visions in 10man, I don't see how that makes it harder, with only one person to dispel, losing people being feared out is not that big of an issue. Also ads don't even need to be prisoned because of their low total health, they can actually be tanked next to shekzeer since there is only one ad phase.
Protectors is not harder, its on par for elite and normal. The only real qustionable fight would be tsulong, and thats solely on the day phase where ad management and assignments require raiders to rotate more.

stone guards for 25man you can just ignore all the mechanics by healing through it. cant do that on 10man. im talking about when heroic msv first came out.
garalon i agree except no the kiting situation isnt easier since in 10man, everyone has to kite, healers need to kite twice.
ambershaper is the same for both sizes.
shekzeer 2 people get visions, not 1. in 10man you need 4 healers. definitely harder on 10man.
tsulong i agree that it can/cannot be harder than 25man.
sha of fear is harder on 10man as well. in 25man you have 2 dps in the back passing the football, and you have enough healers/cooldowns to heal through the huddle. in 10man you have to pass the football to every huddle or else its a wipe since most often than not, 1 of the 2 healers gets huddled.
the problem with 25man and 10man besides the fact that you can carry less than stellar players in 25man more than 10(not talking about the best guilds in the world since everyone has to be amazing), is that 25man always has enough cooldowns where you can heal thru mechanics. picked up a player from a top 25man and when he would die to mechanics his excuse would be "oh we just always healed through it"