When Christa was sitting there saying "I think it's me tonight", I wanted to whack her!

Do something about it then! Talk to the girls, try to get them to see the danger in the Boys. Even if you fail, go down fighting!

12-09-2003, 02:47 PM

Thearnon

Wow!! Totally disagree on the conclusions you are coming to on Sandra's behalf. While I would personally love to see Sandra win this thing and of all the women in the show this year she is by far the best I do not think she is going to win and she has made critical error's when she had the upper hand.

Sandra is very straightforward in what she says and how she acts. She is not trying to decieve people into voting one way and then doing another. She did want an all woman alliance to vote off Burton and that is why she called Tijuana and Darrah into the woods to try to form that alliance. There is no way she was trying to mislead them, she definetly wanted that alliance. She wants to get rid of Burton and she wants to get rid of Jon, you can hear it in everything she says on the show. She had won T's and D's confidence by demonstrating to T through listening to Jon and Burton's conversation that those 2 could not be trusted. SHE HAD IT ALL SETUP - all she had to do was follow through. Still Tijuana(sheep 1) who had no reason to open her mouth confronts Jon about things(her insecurity) and of course then Jon went to Sandra and Christa swearing on his grandmothers grave that his plan is to get rid of Tijuana and then Burton. It was at this point that sheep (2&3)Sandra and Christa changed their mind about voting for Burton and voted for Tijuana. Sandra probably did not think Tijuana could be trusted. But still changing the vote at that point was - no question - because Jon persuaded them to do so and probably because of a lack of confidence in Tijuana.

The next week Sandra once again makes a valiant effort by pulling Darrah and Christa into the woods to again try to form an alliance to boot Burton and then Jon. But now she has lost Darrah because Darrah knows that Sandra and Christa betrayed them in the last vote and has already talked to Jon about kicking off Lill. So Darrah tells Sandra pack sand we're voting off Lill, she is too nice. So what does Sandra do she says "So it's Lil." -Sheep, Sheep, Sheep. She knows that Darrah is not behind this vote, she knows someone else is and she is going along with the pack. Obviously, Darrah is later told that the real vote is for Christa and not Lill, but none of those involved - Jon, Burton, Lil or Darrah have any reason to share this info with Sandra because they are all following(sheep, sheep, sheep) Jon who lies to everyone but is somehow telling them the truth. By the way Sheep(5&6) Darrah and Lill are both being woven a fairy tale by Jon on the ship and sheep 7- Burton has no guts to talk to Jon about Christa's proposal to off Sandra. I give Christa credit for at least trying.

I do agree with the writer who said Matt and Butch were sheep. Actually Butch was brain dead - ranks right up there with Lill.

I hope Sandra win's this thing, she has tried but sheep she is.

12-09-2003, 05:53 PM

emjoi

The thing that annoys me about Lil is that she knows that she is being BS'ed to by Jon and Burton. She made that clear last episode.
But she still follows their commands.

12-09-2003, 07:36 PM

LAGuy

Quote:

Originally Posted by notasheep

I have grown to become increasingly disgusted with the female survivor contestants who 1) blindly follow the men who create and usually lead the alliance, 2) do not enter the contest with the mentality that they are playing a game that requires deception to win, 3) seem to give up rather than use strategy to improve their position.

Other than Lil, I don't really see any of the other women acting in this manner. (Maybe Darrah, but I haven't seen enough of her to know what she's doing.)

Nicole, Michelle, Trish, Tijuana, Christa, and Sandra have all been shown to deceive and play the game. In some cases (Nicole, Trish, Ti), their attempts have blown up in their faces -- but not because they were "sheep". Certainly none of them "gave up" (only Osten did that).

Even Sandra & Christa's alliance with Jon to boot Ti wasn't a matter of them "blindly" following him. You may not agree with their strategy -- but it was a strategy (designed to improve their position and save Sandra's alliance partner, Christa, from being booted after Burton.) Ironically, it didn't work, and Christa ended up being voted out the following TC anyway. But, once again, I wouldn't say it was because she was a "sheep". It was simply a strategy that ended up not working.

12-09-2003, 10:12 PM

Blue_cool

It's pretty sad that only the woman are seeing what an advantage they HAD in the game...Johnny Fairplay...is the main reason as to why this is so!!....Hey good for Jon...bad for the rest!...but hey he's playing the game too well...

12-10-2003, 07:13 AM

radmad

I bet Lill has been doing the sheep act all her life.. look at how she responded when Jon did the ordering... I don't like this strategy at all, and there will be bound to be a few sheep winners in the game of "Survivor" as someone will play the sheep long enough to get themselves into the top 4 or 5 and then go on an immunity streak.

IMO it was inevitable that Lill would follow the sheep role, that was the only role she could play realistically ... she wanted to be Andrew's sheep then she became willingly Burton's sheep. Now she is also Jon's sheep. She wants to attach herself to players who will make the decisions... she is a dependent personality.

Even though I don't admire this strategy I have to admit it is a good one for players like her... but it is a boring one to watch.. too safe..

12-10-2003, 11:03 AM

croftchrism

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmad

IMO it was inevitable that Lill would follow the sheep role, that was the only role she could play realistically ... she wanted to be Andrew's sheep then she became willingly Burton's sheep. Now she is also Jon's sheep. She wants to attach herself to players who will make the decisions... she is a dependent personality.

I don't know if she wanted to be the men's sheep, I think that she wanted to be something else for them.... Did you see the kiss? :lovestruc

12-10-2003, 11:37 AM

gaebolga

Maybe Lil thought the boys were from North Dakota...

*ducks flying tomatoes*

12-10-2003, 11:20 PM

Blue_cool

Quote:

Originally Posted by radmad

I bet Lill has been doing the sheep act all her life.. look at how she responded when Jon did the ordering... I don't like this strategy at all, and there will be bound to be a few sheep winners in the game of "Survivor" as someone will play the sheep long enough to get themselves into the top 4 or 5 and then go on an immunity streak.

IMO it was inevitable that Lill would follow the sheep role, that was the only role she could play realistically ... she wanted to be Andrew's sheep then she became willingly Burton's sheep. Now she is also Jon's sheep. She wants to attach herself to players who will make the decisions... she is a dependent personality.

Even though I don't admire this strategy I have to admit it is a good one for players like her... but it is a boring one to watch.. too safe..

:clap Yup yup!!...All she's been doing is attaching herself to all the other players, i've never actually seen her trying to work out an alliance for her own benefit. Bassically what she does she sees where the votes are going, and wait till she sees either Burton, Sandra or Jon to tell her WHo to vote for..

i mean she's not thinking out for her OWN stand in the game...which is dumb..and i really hope this will cost her the game..coz i sure as heck do not want to see her go any farther then she already is.

yeah i don't like this strategy at all, i'm gonna say this .. but i like Jon's strategy much better..coz it's actually enjoyable to see him backstab all these people who KNOW he's lying, deceiving them...yet they still let him do so...oh well..

i hope Lil goes home!! haha...:lol

12-11-2003, 04:35 PM

Thearnon

I'm probably being too hard on Sandra and maybe even Darrah. Lil is total sheep and total brain dead. It is not a strategy with Lil, it is a way of life. Sandra is definetly trying to employ her own strategy, I'm not sure about Darrah. She seems to more or less go along with whatever.

When I said that Sandra and Darrah are two sheep what I really meant is that they are not the ones controlling the flow of the game or its weekly outcomes. Both of the last 2 weeks Sandra has jumped on suggestions of other people giving up on her own plans. She definetly knows who the worms are. It just bothers me that she had exactly what she needed to eliminate Burton and let it slip away. To me it showed a lack of conviction, a lack of strength in her own self - she basically let Jon talk her out of doing what she was going to do. It shows that Jon is calling the shots, not Sandra. But she is not really a sheep, she has played a good game, she has tried very hard to do some positive things. She is just not contolling the way people vote - Jon is, and he is playing the best game. Even though I totally hate him, and think he is a slimy little worm, Jon is the one persuading other people to do what he wants them to do.

In a way Rupert made the mistake a long time ago, because he knew Jon was the worm he is and he could have had him voted off but he never did it, he let Jon fly under the radar when Jon didn't have the power that he does now.