i first thought of posting this to the "tomes" thread, but it really is its own theme.

yes, i've picked up a lot of vocabulary from a lot of sources, but i'm fond of what i picked up from tolkien (i have extra love for his descriptions of physical places and naturescapes).

which brings me to a word tolkien taught me:

sward.

you?

cheers --

. aka. fili orc-enshield +++++++++++++++++++ the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel

There's many, many more I know I've had to look up when reading, but cannot recall. Probably hurts my case I'm a young American, so not only do I not know many British words, I also suffer from being 3 generations younger than Tolkien. Needless to say, I haven't found the chance to slip these words into casual conversations. As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when FŽanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.

. aka. fili orc-enshield +++++++++++++++++++ the scene, as i understand it, is exceptionally well-written. fili (in sort of a callback to the scene with the eagles), calls out "thorRIIIIIIN!!!" just as he sees the pale orc veer in for the kill. he picks up the severed arm of an orc which is lying on the ground, swings it up in desperation, effectively blocking the pale orc's blow. and thus, forever after, fili is known as "fili orc-enshield."

this earns him deep respect from his hard-to-please uncle. as well as a hug. kili wipes his boots on the pale orc's glory box. -- maciliel

That would have been entirely a sensible contribution within the spirit of the thread, but would have caused momentary confusion.... Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

And I was surprised to find out that Wetwang is an actual place in the UK. Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

I thought Tolkien made that up, but it seems not. He was very good at making up plausible sounding words (his professional training) so it's hard to tell.

England has a lot of odd place names, including the River Piddle, and the village Nether Wallop. Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

I wonder how many words started with Tolkien & made it into English?
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Anyone got access to a big online dictionary - like oed.com (the Oxford English Dictionary)? . It would be fun to know whether they'd decided to include any Tolkienisms Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

(when I saw your 'Baldric' title NoWiz as a BlackAdder fan all I can think of is "Baldric, the Renaissance is just something that happened to other people, wasn't it?)Hell hath no fury like a Dragon who is missing a cup.

Or since he was a contributor to OED, did he sneak in any of his words?
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Do hobbits litter the pages in subversive ways? Does he define palantir and then disguise it with a pseudo-etymology of Indo-European roots? Maybe it is only in the OED that he explains what a Variag of Khand is.

Let's cancel The Sil and discuss OED next.

More seriously, there was a book written about how it came about, and though it sounds dull, it was entertaining.

Well I was in my thirties when I first got round to reading Tolkien
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and had already read a lot of English medieval history, fiction and factual, by that time. And also, being English, I suppose a lot of words I was already familiar with to some extent, but Tolkien helped to illustrate them and bring to life. Like Nowime, "dwimmer" was one that I had not come across before and as I read, kept confusing it with "dwarrow", which I had also not come across before- you can imagine it caused a bit of confusion storywise! "Beneath the roof of sleeping leaves the dreams of trees unfold"

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

Place names and the porous boundaries of English (and Oxford Dictionaries)
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"What words did Tolkien make up?" speaks to two of my previous posts. Tolkien's place names are mostly made up. I don't think there are any real places called Bree or Archet or Buckleberry. But they would be unremarkable English place names, like Eynsham, Farmoor, Cuttleslow, Tackley or Abingdon (all real places in Oxfordshire). As the action moves to other places, the names get more "outlandish" - we are to suppose that they arose from other cultures, just as Yorkshire place names in England are different from Oxfordshire ones (Norse elements are added to Saxon ones "up North" - the area was much invaded, and then settled by Vikings). And place names of Rohan sound more English than those of Gondor, because the Rohirrim are pretty Anglo-Saxon, I think. Dunharrow, Riddermark, Starkhorn and Tarlang's Neck sound perfectly English to my English ears, but clearly Orthanc or Erech or Pelargir don't (which is the intention, of course). "Eastfold" is pretty natural as a name for a grassy region if you live near the Cotswolds, and can visit Stow-on-the-Wold. Same for personal names - Edmond could be a Rider of Rohan, but it also was my father's name. Frideswide could perfectly well be Eowyn's sister, but is the genuine patron saint of Oxford City (and associated with the original Treacle Well, of Alice in Wonderland fame).

Tolkien's names either come from the right linguistic roots (that -fold), and/or he has a very good ear for what sounds natural (or alien, as suits him).

Re the Oxford English Dictionary, I was speculating about whether any words Tolkien made up or found new senses for had been accepted into respected, general-purpose English dictionaries (for example, those published by Oxford University Press) and had, in that sense, become "English words". What is, or is not an "English word" is of course a matter for debate. Oxford Dictionaries now seem to see themselves as collectors of what the world currently sees as English - to answer CuriousG's point they have serious admission criteria, so its unlikely that JRRT would have been able to smuggle in any pet words. I've met some of the Oxford lexicographers and they are serious about their work - you'd have a better chance smuggling a woopee cushion onto Denethor's chair. So, let's take, as a working definition, that if it's in an Oxford Dictionary (or one of their competitor's), you could argue it's reached a level of general recognition adequate to become a general English Word, in a different sense to a word which is only found in specialized dictionaries for Tolkien fans.

For example, I learned that words like these were all names for different types of valleys:

dell - a small valley, usually with trees vale - a wide valley, usually with a flat bottom or flood plain dale - a broad valley glen - a long, narrow valley gully - a small valley or ravine originally worn away by running water and serving as a drainageway after prolonged heavy rains gorge - a narrow valley between hills or mountains, typically with steep rocky walls and a stream running through it.

-- canyon: a deep gorge, typically with a river running through it

ravine - a narrow, steep sided valley, commonly one that has been eroded by running water

Though when I next have my wizard's tower re-wired, I'm definitely going to have lights with dwimmer switches Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

"nowimŽ I am in the West, and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "

Adamant (as a noun) was new to me - already knew what it meant as a adjective. Dingle (as in a landscape feature, not a playground slang term)

...were both new to me.

(Anyone like the Skulduggery Pleasant books? "Adamant Dingle" SO sounds like a character from them! Or perhaps not.....)

And it sounds nearly as nice as Obsidian Bunker

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I think CuriousG has nailed why Melkor ends up single! Quite agree, he's not about to share his obsidian bunker with any equal.(Don't know whether he really has an obsidian bunker, but it's so nice to say "obsidian bunker", especially out loud, that I'm going to imagine one until proved otherwise). The Silmarillion discussion: Valaquenta

Disclaimers: The words of noWizardme may stand on their heads! I'm often wrong about things, and its fun to be taught more....

"nowimŽ I am in the West, and by other names in other lands. Mostly they just say 'Oh no it's him - look busy!' "