Immediately before the 50th anniversary of the Second Vatican Council, the new prefect of the CDF, Archbishop Gerhard Ludwig Müller, declares the traditionalist Society of Saint Pius X. for not worthy of negotiation. He said literally: "This fraternity is for us no negotiating partner, because there are no negotiations about the faith."

[…]

The prefect of the CDF clarified in his talk with „NDR Kultur“: "There are no discounts regarding to the catholic faith, especially as he also has been validly formulated by the Second Vatican Council. The Second Vatican Council is not opposed to the tradition of the whole Church, at best, [it is opposed] to some misinterpretations of the catholic faith." Archbishop Müller said furthermore: "We cannot abandon the catholic faith to the negotiations. There are no compromises." The CDF is going to decide in union with the Pope how to proceed. The SSPX has the declaration at hand, which they have to accept, emphasised Müller. "I think there are now no more new talks" said the prefect of the faith.

_________________In Christ our King.

Fri Oct 05, 2012 1:14 am

Recusant

Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 12:28 pmPosts: 284

Not according to ECCLESIA DEI.......l.

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Saturday, October 27, 2012

DECLARATION OF THE PONTIFICAL COMMISSION "ECCLESIA DEI"

VATICAN CITY, (VIS) - The following English-language declaration was issued this morning by the Pontifical Commission "Ecclesia Dei".

"The Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' takes this occasion to announce that, in its most recent official communication (6 September 2012), the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X has indicated that additional time for reflection and study is needed on their part as they prepare their response to the Holy See’s latest initiatives.

"The current stage in the ongoing discussions between the Holy See and the Priestly Fraternity[U] follows three years of doctrinal and theological dialogues during which a joint commission met eight times to study and discuss, among other matters, some disputed issues in the interpretation of certain documents of Vatican Council II. Once these doctrinal dialogues were concluded, it became possible to proceed to a phase of discussion more directly focused on the greatly desired reconciliation of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X with the See of Peter.

"Other critical steps in this positive process of gradual reintegration had already been taken by the Holy See in 2007 with the extension of the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite to the Universal Church by the Motu Proprio 'Summorum Pontificum' and in 2009 with the lifting of the excommunications. Just a few months ago, a culminating point along this difficult path was reached when, on 13 June 2012, the Pontifical Commission presented to the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X a doctrinal declaration together with a proposal for the canonical normalisation of its status within the Catholic Church.

"At the present time, the Holy See is awaiting the official response of the superiors of the Priestly Fraternity to these two documents. After thirty years of separation, it is understandable that time is needed to absorb the significance of these recent developments. As Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI seeks to foster and preserve the unity of the Church by realising the long hoped-for reconciliation of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X with the See of Peter - a dramatic manifestation of the 'munus Petrinum' in action - patience, serenity, perseverance and trust are needed".

Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:44 pm

Admin

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Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:30 pmPosts: 4334

Re: Muller says no more talks with SSPX

I was just about to post this myself, Lance. Thank you.

It's classic spin, apparently aimed at causing more division in the Fraternity.

I don't believe that the Fraternity is engaged in discussions at all, and certainly not with a view to a purely practical agreement or a compromise of the truth - i.e. an ambiguous doctrinal declaration. But time will tell. In the mean time we witness this kind of spin, which contains no new data at all, but merely represents the situation in a certain light so as to create political pressure.

I reckon this was issued in order to take advantage of the distress and confusion caused by the expulsion of Bishop Williamson. "Ah, they're in a bit of a tizz, let's lob a grenade in to add to it."

_________________In Christ our King.

Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:38 pm

Admin

Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:30 pmPosts: 4334

Re: Muller says no more talks with SSPX

Parsed:

Quote:

"The Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' takes this occasion to announce that, in its most recent official communication (6 September 2012), the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X has indicated that additional time for reflection and study is needed on their part as they prepare their response to the Holy See’s latest initiatives.

"We asked them nearly two months ago (early September) what is taking them so long, and they said that they are still formulating a response. We thought now might be a good time to mention this publicly. You can guess why."

Quote:

"The current stage in the ongoing discussions between the Holy See and the Priestly Fraternity[U] follows three years of doctrinal and theological dialogues during which a joint commission met eight times to study and discuss, among other matters, some disputed issues in the interpretation of certain documents of Vatican Council II. Once these doctrinal dialogues were concluded, it became possible to proceed to a phase of discussion more directly focused on the greatly desired reconciliation of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X with the See of Peter.

"Having said that we can't hold discussions with the Fraternity about the 'faith' we realised that this plays into the hands of those who desire no compromise, so now we're characterising the situation as one of 'ongoing discussions'. We also thought it would be fun to characterise the mentality of the Fraternity is 'greatly desiring' a reconciliation with us."

Quote:

"Other critical steps in this positive process of gradual reintegration had already been taken by the Holy See in 2007 with the extension of the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite to the Universal Church by the Motu Proprio 'Summorum Pontificum' and in 2009 with the lifting of the excommunications. Just a few months ago, a culminating point along this difficult path was reached when, on 13 June 2012, the Pontifical Commission presented to the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X a doctrinal declaration together with a proposal for the canonical normalisation of its status within the Catholic Church.

"We needed some content for this press release, so we decided to retail the long-stale initiatives which led up to the presentation of that June 13 text which was designed to kill the process by demanding unambiguously that the Fraternity accept Vatican II and the New Mass, and spin it as the opposite - that is, as a document aimed at taking the process forward to a successful conclusion."

Quote:

"At the present time, the Holy See is awaiting the official response of the superiors of the Priestly Fraternity to these two documents. After thirty years of separation, it is understandable that time is needed to absorb the significance of these recent developments. As Our Holy Father Pope Benedict XVI seeks to foster and preserve the unity of the Church by realising the long hoped-for reconciliation of the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X with the See of Peter - a dramatic manifestation of the 'munus Petrinum' in action - patience, serenity, perseverance and trust are needed".

"Nothing has happened, so we'll say that something is happening, just slowly."

Liars, and the sons of the first liar.

_________________In Christ our King.

Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:50 pm

TKGS

Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:57 amPosts: 391Location: Indiana, USA

Re: Not according to ECCLESIA DEI.......l.

Ecclesia Dei wrote:

"The Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' takes this occasion to announce that, in its most recent official communication (6 September 2012), the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X has indicated that additional time for reflection and study is needed on their part as they prepare their response to the Holy See’s latest initiatives.

I agree with John that Vatican officials are trying to fan the flames of division more in order to weaken one of its enemies. However, though I can't locate the precise comments from Bishop Fellay, I was under the impression that the official SSPX response was drafted and sent to Rome soon after the general council.

So, I have to ask, is the Vatican lying here (a definite possibility) or, if they are being absolutely truthful, what has taken Menzingen so long to write up the official reply and presenting it to rome? If Muller is firm on his statement, then a negative reply by Menzingen will close the issue of reunification for the forseeable future. On the other hand, failure to reply keeps the issue open.

Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:29 am

Admin

Site Admin

Joined: Tue May 16, 2006 2:30 pmPosts: 4334

Re: Not according to ECCLESIA DEI.......l.

TKGS wrote:

Ecclesia Dei wrote:

"The Pontifical Commission 'Ecclesia Dei' takes this occasion to announce that, in its most recent official communication (6 September 2012), the Priestly Fraternity of St. Pius X has indicated that additional time for reflection and study is needed on their part as they prepare their response to the Holy See’s latest initiatives.

I agree with John that Vatican officials are trying to fan the flames of division more in order to weaken one of its enemies. However, though I can't locate the precise comments from Bishop Fellay, I was under the impression that the official SSPX response was drafted and sent to Rome soon after the general council.

No, you're recalling that they said that was their intention. But they didn't do it. Bishop Fellay said when he was here in July that he had not decided what to reply. Evidently he still hasn't. But he has ruled out saying "yes" and that's the crucial point.

TKGS wrote:

On the other hand, failure to reply keeps the issue open.

I agree. I wish they'd just send a terse note and be done with it. But they think Benedict's the pope. Ergo.

Did you notice on IA how the same people who say that we can't believe a word that the Modernists express, welcomed this nasty little PR text as "proof" that the talks are ongoing? No critical faculty at all. No judgement. Apparently, just malice and itching ears. May God have mercy on them.

The proposed reconciliation, in fact, amounts to reconciling us with Vatican II. Not with the Church, not with the Church of all ages. Besides, we do not need to be reconciled with the Church of all ages; we’re there. And Rome says: “We have not yet received your official response.” But three times I replied that we could not, that we were not going down that path.

Not long ago, we had a position statement from the President of Ecclesia Dei, who is at the same time the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, asserting that the discussions with the Society were over. And last Saturday, a new declaration from the Ecclesia Dei says: “No, we must allow them some time; it is understandable that after thirty years of debate they should need a certain amount of time; we do see that they have an ardent desire to be reconciled.” I have the impression that they have it more than we do. And we wonder: what is happening?

Obviously this is once again sowing confusion, but we must not allow ourselves to be troubled.

_________________In Christ our King.

Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:25 pm

Robert Bastaja

Joined: Tue May 23, 2006 9:03 pmPosts: 515

Re: Muller says no more talks with SSPX

John Lane wrote:

TKGS wrote:

On the other hand, failure to reply keeps the issue open.

I agree. I wish they'd just send a terse note and be done with it. But they think Benedict's the pope. Ergo.

I don't understand why believing Benedict is the pope stops them from answering clearly. I would think it would make them want to be as clear and straightforward as possible.

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