I was riveted. I thought it did a fantastic job showing that "even back then" nothing much happened politically without a lot of backdoor, under-the-table deals. Sadly, some take any mention of that as some kind of disparagement of Lincoln himself. And though it does make one sad for the average joes and janes whose local officials ended up being appointed as political favors rather than for experience or competence, and even though it is very sobering to contemplate the lives that might have been saved if a possible North-South peace had not been delayed by so many months, I don't think that the political wheeling and dealing has to make one think less of Lincoln. Differently, maybe, if one has an idea of him as above that sort of thing, but the movie didn't make me think of him as not great or not heroic. Not perfect, perhaps, but who is? It did give me a fuller picture of him and of the times.

I would like to tackle the primary book on which the movie is based (Team of Rivals, isn't it?). I appreciated that the film had a narrow focus on Lincoln's fight for the 13th amendment, by the way; many reviewers criticized it for not being more of a bio of his entire life, but any film covering that much ground could never have been as detailed and nuanced about the politics as this one was, and would have had to have been much longer.

I started Team of Rivals, and it's riveting reading. Doris Kearns Goodwin is one of the three or four best historians writing today, along with David McCullough, Joseph Ellis, and Stephen Ambrose. (I can't remember if Ambrose is still alive, but he wrote Undaunted Courage about Lewis and Clark, and I think also Band of Brothers, about World War II.)

I agree that people seem to want Lincoln to be a saint or they want nothing to do with him, and that's not generally how things work in life, and certainly not in politics. The more I learn of him the more impressed I am, but no one man can bring history into that sweet zone where everything works out all right for everyone.

In fact, for a man born in Kentucky in the early 1800s, he did a splendid job of rising above his time and place in so many aspects. To say he wasn't as enlightened as we are in the matter of race relations is to forget that his work is part of what gives us the opportunity and the luxury to have attained our enlightened stance.

Like you, I also feel that the movie was smart concentrating on the one event rather than his life or his entire Presidential term. (I haven't seen it yet, but maybe this weekend, if my area isn't drowned, blown away, or snowbound.) The truth is that you could make a movie about some aspect of Lincoln every year and never come to the end of him.

The war was terrible, but we forget at our peril that one of two far worse things would have happened without it.
1. The Union would have stayed together with slavery continuing until who knows when. As manufacturing became more widespread, slaves would have been moved into work as factory laborers. How intractable would the institution have become by that time, in 1880 or so?
2. The Union would have broken apart and the Confederacy would have formed unchecked as a separate country. Endless wars over Western territory, especially the rich plum of California, would have sapped American strength for the rest of the century and more. As the Confederacy industrialized to compete with the Union, slaves would have been again moved into work as factory laborers. Within the Confederacy, can you imagine that any voices for reform would have been heard?

Imagine all the children born into servitude, generation after generation, if either of those scenarios had taken place.

DDLewis better get Best Actor or I am throwing something at the TV, and it wont be flowers.....I have nothing against HJ in Les Mis, feel bad movie of the year, so bad it made my Mirai cry like a baby, but DDL earned this, and the movie needs to get the Oscar too, as does S. Fields. I do have to say that I got a penny that says Speilburg will have to apologize for getting the votes of the Conn. congressmen wrong in the film.....if that is indeed true.

DDLewis better get Best Actor or I am throwing something at the TV, and it wont be flowers.....I have nothing against HJ in Les Mis, feel bad movie of the year, so bad it made my Mirai cry like a baby, but DDL earned this, and the movie needs to get the Oscar too, as does S. Fields. I do have to say that I got a penny that says Speilburg will have to apologize for getting the votes of the Conn. congressmen wrong in the film.....if that is indeed true.

Big "discussion" (of sorts) on this at yahoo following an article about the screenwriter's rather immature response to the Congressman's concern over misrepresentation of votes in the movie. I'm amazed at the number of people who say (and this includes my history loving husband), "it's Hollywood" "it's just a movie" "they can do whatever they want". I don't feel this way, especially when one is depicting something as important to our country as the vote on the 13th amendment. I loved this movie - especially James Spader's character, Bilbo, who was out there having a grand old time garnering support for Lincoln's efforts to pass the amendment. I agree with CoyoteChris - DDL better get Best Actor. After a few minutes, IMO, he became Lincoln (or the Lincoln I've always imagined). It will be interesting to see what Spielburg has to say on Oscar night.

I never see the oscar movies til way later but feel DDL deserves it. It as like watching Lincoln come to life. I was a tiny bit bored in parts but quickly the action brought me back. I had no idea what it took to pass the Proclamation. I don't read American History anymore for reasons difficult to say here. But I feel his performance is way better than HJ in Les Mis. The play is triumphant, the movie depressing. But still, worth seeing as it is epic and finally the music has reached a mainstream audience.

I want t see Argo, and the movie about taking Osama down. Has anyone sen it? I wonder how graphic it is? Somehow it seems such a movie so soon would risk inflaming the arab world when so much else is inflaming radical Jihadists. Any review. I'm not a huge fan of Bradley Cooper nor his female lead. I really did not like Hunger games very much...and I'm not thrilled she gets 15 million now for two more installments, which will be clones of the first I guess. Jennifer is lucky. A decent actress, she is simply very lucky. Winter's bone was good but i hate how Hollywood finds young attractive women and makes the ugly for a role and they get all kinds of plaudits. Is that a word? LOL. Given that I guess I'd ike to see Silver Linings Playbook as it has gotten good reviews. I have missed so many great movies at the theatre. I guess my area is depressed or has people who want the typical fare. My friend and I were the only ones watching a late evening showing of Lincoln. Les Mis had a handful soon after it opened.

Well, I guess if I saw all 5 oscar nominated films it would be amazing. I did rent Arbitrage from the redbox. Richard Gere is good and it was a good movie...cliches abound, but I certainly think he is a seasoned veteran who can be in every scene and carry it. I think it is worth renting.

So, beside the big movies with the nominations, how about some redbox hits? What can y'all recommend?

I still haven't seen Lincoln, drat it. I thought yesterday, but I had to go hunting in bookstores for a book to use as a source for a paper I'm writing. Maybe I need to improve my time management skills.

I think it would be well worth making the time for Lincoln, Olympia. And skateluvr, I've also been thinking about seeing Argo and Zero Dark Thirty. Probably Argo more -- like Doris I'm not sure I want to put myself through Zero Dark Thirty, though I recognize the utter seriousness of the many issues involved.

Argo is excellent! Fast paced and especially meaningful for those who were old enough at the time (1979) to remember the shock of having all those Americans taken hostage. Lots of suspense (even though we know the eventual outcome) and some very funny bits, especially out in Hollywood. I don't think I can handle the opening of Zero Dark Thirty (voices of trapped people making 911 calls from the World Trade Center towers and some waterboard scenes)...altho' I'd like to see the characterization of the woman who is responsible for finding Bin Laden.

Good for you Doris....although what is worse for me is this crap called gratuitous violence. There is a new movie called "A Good Day To Die Hard" and from the preview on the ABC morning show, Bruce Willis cohosting, I saw lots of people solving problems by machine guning each other while the hosts were laughing....the same hosts that talk about what we can do about gun violence in Chicago....can anyone wonder where fifth graders get ideas on how to solve problems at schools? I have less of a problem with violence where it is historically accurate (the start of "Lincoln" ) I would like to see Zero dark Thirty but I would like to see it at home so I can fast forward through anything disturbing.
(rant alert) I just heard that the most violent video game out there, CAll to Duty, has sold 40 million copies....and that is only one game. Around here, two fifth graders were caught plotting to take a girl away with a .45 auto they had stolen and knife her to death. She had teased them. Be thankful you lived when you did....rant alert over.

Originally Posted by dorispulaski

"Argo" is the movie about the rescue of some of the US Embassy staff out of Iran on bicycles during the Iran hostage crisis. I want to see it!

"Zero Dark Thirty" is the Osama bin Laden film, and is supposed to include torture sequences. I'm not interested.