Even if you follow all the previous points, something could happen to your belayer. The outdoors are unpredictable. Things can go wrong. Assisted braking belay devices, such as the Grigri, add an extra measure of security in those scenarios. If your belayer is knocked out by rock fall while using a tube-style belay device, you are off belay. If they're using an assisted-braking device, though they are not designed to be used hands-free, it may still lock up and hold the rope. Insist that your partner use an assisted-braking device to stack the deck in your favor."

GriGri's have their own issues, or rather, belayers using GriGri's seem to be more likely to not have good solid belaying technique. It's important to ask, do we see more climbers decking when an ATC is in use versus a GriGri?

George Wu wrote:GriGri's have their own issues, or rather, belayers using GriGri's seem to be more likely to not have good solid belaying technique. It's important to ask, do we see more climbers decking when an ATC is in use versus a GriGri? Anecdotal evidence is not a substitute for statistical studies.

Not going to take the time to look it up, but I believe that both Jim Titt and Bearbreader have posted numberous links to data by the DAV in Germany which shows that there is a much higher accident rate with an ATC vs a GriGri.

I heard that before dropping her, he said "Hands up, no belay" in protest of the archaic ATC being thrust upon him by an older generation of white male climbers who insist on returning to the dark days of the hip belay.

Aleks Zebastian wrote:climbing friend, much like the PAS thong, do not be utilizing the deadly ATC. climbing.com/news/unbelayva… "Use an assisted braking belay device. Even if you follow all the previous points, something could happen to your belayer. The outdoors are unpredictable. Things can go wrong. Assisted braking belay devices, such as the Grigri, add an extra measure of security in those scenarios. If your belayer is knocked out by rock fall while using a tube-style belay device, you are off belay. If they're using an assisted-braking device, though they are not designed to be used hands-free, it may still lock up and hold the rope. Insist that your partner use an assisted-braking device to stack the deck in your favor."

im disappointed. this post didnt come off nearly as... ethnic? as your normal post. we need more talk of the climbing rocks and neck meat.

kennoyce wrote: Not going to take the time to look it up, but I believe that both Jim Titt and Bearbreader have posted numberous links to data by the DAV in Germany which shows that there is a much higher accident rate with an ATC vs a GriGri.

kennoyce wrote: Not going to take the time to look it up, but I believe that both Jim Titt and Bearbreader have posted numberous links to data by the DAV in Germany which shows that there is a much higher accident rate with an ATC vs a GriGri.

Yea but that same data showed the lowest accident rate for belaying with a Munter so...