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Talking to pirates is like talking to a wall. They refuse to acknowledge they are breaking the inherent agreement.

Key sharers are pirates who have have decided what they are doing is less immoral because they bought a 'spare key'.

But they didn't, and they won't be told, so let's just leave them to it .

Note: I have shared keys of games after bundles have ended when they were dupes, but I know I'm wrong for it, most people can't admit fault.

What if you pass on the key, without ever installing the DRM-free copy you have? It never even occurred to me that someone might pass on the key and also install the game to be honest until I read it here. I guess because of how morally upright and ethically impressive I am.

What if you pass on the key, without ever installing the DRM-free copy you have? It never even occurred to me that someone might pass on the key and also install the game to be honest until I read it here. I guess because of how morally upright and ethically impressive I am.

Yes, you are the ultimate anti-bastard.

Then you are breaching a service contract with a company which will happily send all the money you pay to charity.

Rather than discuss who is right and who is wrong (and, you know, ensure that no discussion can occur because one side feels the need to scream how the other side are bad people), let's just look at this from a practical perspective:

The Humble Bundle people have apparently complained about this at some point. That suggests that the publishers and indie devs have complained about this. If they are complaining, they don't like it. If they don't like something, they are less likely to do it in the future. If they don't do it, we will either not get keys for multiple services (giving Steam or Desura a stronger foothold on the market... like the former needs it or the latter would know what to do with it...) or we just won't have those games in the bundles.

Right or wrong? Who gives a shit? Your morals and ethical code have no bearing on my morals and ethical code. But if this behavior is making us less likely to get the fun stuff in the future, at least consider that.

That being said: Anyone feel like actually discussing cheap games and what nots? Or should I just stick to reddit on that one?

Steam: Gundato
PSN: Gundato
If you want me on either service, I suggest PMing me here first to let me know who you are.

Unfortunately, if you already have a game in the bundle you will not be able to gift the extra games to a friend.

Please consider your bundle a "unit", and not to share copies of the games or Steam keys from it.

If you'd like to give a copy of the games away, we have a system in place that allows you to buy a gift key from www.humblebundle.com so your friends can have access to direct downloads as well as any Steam or other keys we have included.

I was not aware of this policy, and I'm sure if I had any friends then I might have possibly violated in the past...

I've been quite surprised by people sharing keys for the same 'copy' (or license if you insist) of a game - quite intuitively (unlike I'd suggest splitting a bundle) that seems wrong to me and clearly not what was intended.

I can't think of anything more natural than splitting a bundle. It's like going to a restaurant, seeing they have a special whereby you can order a platter for the same price as a portion of olives, and then giving the excess to a friend rather than just eating the olives, not touching the rest and just letting it all go back to the kitchen untouched.

If they want the bundle to be treated inseparable then they should return to doing as they were before and make the keys a single bundle key rather than six separate ones or whatever. It's not remotely intuitive to give you six divisible things and suggest they should obviously be treated as a singular entity. Unless you're naturally a stingy hoarder. If you are a generous person who wants to ensure things aren't wasted and that you use what you have to other people's benefit, there's only one obvious conclusion if you get six things and you don't need five of them.

All that said, I don't want to take the piss out of a very good thing so now that it's been made clear that they don't want someone to do that, I won't. But its far from clear and I wouldn't judge anyone else who didn't on that basis.

I was not aware of this policy, and I'm sure if I had any friends then I might have possibly violated in the past...

I've been quite surprised by people sharing keys for the same 'copy' (or license if you insist) of a game - quite intuitively (unlike I'd suggest splitting a bundle) that seems wrong to me and clearly not what was intended.

Lat time I knew, answers on a FAQ weren't legally binding. On a bundle, I've paid for a package of goods. How I distribute those goods is up to me and there isn't anything in the terms and conditions that prevents me from doing so.

I also never thought of giving the Steam code to someone and then playing the non-Steam version. I'm not down with that - I paid for it once, and I should get only one license to play the game.

Quite often I have bought the game for friend and given him the key because I already own it. Never even touch the drm free copy.

I have also done this. Just like I have also given people the can of coke that came with my sandwich because I don't drink coke. I didn't have the Coke company come try arrest me though for giving away a DRM free can of coke.

"Halo is designed to make the player think "I look like that, I am macho sitting in my undies with my xbox""

I have also done this. Just like I have also given people the can of coke that came with my sandwich because I don't drink coke. I didn't have the Coke company come try arrest me though for giving away a DRM free can of coke.

You're meant to just keep the can unspoiled. Granted you'll have thousands of litres of coke you don't want or can't drink that someone else would benefit from, but you *did* buy it as part of a lunch bundle after all.

The idea that passing something along I've paid for is even remotely morally similar to piracy is absurd. Sometimes I really do despair that we cultivate this idea that sharing things is bad.

I had you in mind the whole time I was typing all that stuff, because you are the perfect example of someone who's doing something wrong for all the right reasons.

I realise your view is that a key bought is a key owned - it's a copy of a game you should be able to do with as you see fit, it's not copyable (unlike an installer) and so where's the harm?

Well - when you post your spare keys, the person who gets one just MIGHT have bought the bundle otherwise (or just might sell or trade it for personal gain). It's actually more likely to "kill a sale" than any form of piracy because one 'free and legal' key is one person NEVER buying that game - wheras pirated copies must sometimes turn into 'bought' copies even if just by chance!!

Don't get me wrong - I want to share stuff with people as much as anyone and I'll freely admit that I sometimes pass-on 'spare keys' (I've done it here) but I have my own rules which fit with my own morality on this.

1 - never share keys in a bundle which is still active
2 - share keys with people you have reason to share with - not random strangers who just might be key/account resellers(*)
3 - don't kid myself I'm not breaking the rules (and perhaps get a buzz from doing do(**))

(*) there are people who spider Twitter for key codes and use them instantly
(**) last week I did 60 leptons in a 30 leptons zone - it made me feel IMMEASURABLY better and no-one died...

We're not talking about 'legal' because it's complicated and contentious and it varies from country to country.

We're talking morals (different from ethics by about 4 years at University) - and morals are not just your personal take on things but the take of your peers on the topic.

and please can we never EVER again use the term 'key pirates' - I said it was 'morally undistinguishable' from piracy because it is, in effect, the same 'wrong' (passing on/something when you have no legal license to) but it's obviously a very different actual thing.

Indeed it falls under something the bundle makers CAN fix by simply creating a single key for a whole bundle - so you could say "if they don't it, it's their problem" but you can't just say "it's not the law so fuck it" and pretend you're cleaner than clean.

p.s. isn't there a site where people can join-together to buy a bundle and share the content? If there was I'd not link to it but I believe it exists and - well,

You're meant to just keep the can unspoiled. Granted you'll have thousands of litres of coke you don't want or can't drink that someone else would benefit from, but you *did* buy it as part of a lunch bundle after all.

The Lunch Bundle didn't ask you not to share it - that's the entire difference in a nutshell.

If they thought that a lot of people only wanted sandwiches whilst others only wanted cans of Coke - they'd probably add such a rule (or make a more complex bundle) I suspect.

Also - you basically compared 'stealing' a game to 'stealing' a car there - well done.

The Lunch Bundle didn't ask you not to share it - that's the entire difference in a nutshell.

If they thought that a lot of people only wanted sandwiches whilst others only wanted cans of Coke - they'd probably add such a rule (or make a more complex bundle) I suspect.

Also - you basically compared 'stealing' a game to 'stealing' a car there - well done.

Quite frankly-you don't know that. Because unless you have read the terms and conditions of the specific lunch deal that has been mentioned, you can't be sure. For all we know, there might be such stipulations.

I actually think it's a very good analogy because there is no obvious reason to not be generous with the components of the lunch deal if you don't want them, and the likelihood that very few people, yourself included, have consulted the Ts and Cs to see if they corroborate with that obvious conclusion.

The value ratio is similar too. My local Sainsburys' I can buy a bottle of Tropicana, a Wrap and a Twix for 3.00, or I can buy a wrap for 2.75, a bottle of Tropicana for 1.10 and a Twix for 69p separately. Somebody only wanting the wrap could quite easily buy it for themselves via the Meal Deal with the purpose of giving their peckish mate a bottle of Tropicana and Twix they would otherwise have bought if not for me buying the meal deal and giving them those things. Two lost sales there.

I missed how I did the latter part., the car thing.
While pontificating on about the value of morals-what are your thoughts on patronising people for no good reason as you did just now?