Houses and their population

Hi, I've only been playing for four days but I'm really enjoying the game so far. Only.. my house. I couldn't tell what type of house it was only that it was evil and I thought it would be a chaotic or neutral evil type. Now that I've been in it for a few days though, I don't like it at all. Don't get me wrong the people in it ARE fantastic, but the house mentality and the whole setting isn't for me. I feel like a dick because I've asked for so much help but I'm not enjoying it in any aspect.

To top it off there are 248 players online right now. 12 are on in my city and THREE in my house. It seems dead to me.

My class is jester and my options are Shadowsnakes, Crownmerchants, Cij and Tybeirdd.

My questions are what is the mentality of these houses and how populated are they? A help file description can only tell you so much (case and point).

I'm so offended you don't even know. (also Mhaldor always has a very low population, but arguably the best RP environment. Leaving means more players, more admin interaction, but also more stupidity depending on where you go).

I'd advice pretty strongly against the Cij because the jokes I saw were terrible, but then I'm Mhaldorian so you should check it out yourself before making a decision.

I dunno about the Shadowsnakes. I'll just say the only House I'd ever join in Ashtan would be the Occultists.

Ty Beirdd and the Merchants might be right up your ally. I don't know much about the Merchants, but Ty Beirdd is pretty okay. It doesn't get involved in conflict or anything, but that could be your style.

The CIJ is the house I belong to. Far be it from me to recruit on the forums, but we're a relaxed house being steered more and more towards interaction with other players and cities through performance.

The house is neutral and dedicated to the art of comedy, parody and well formed relationships. We also seem to attract the most amount of true newbies, and the house caters for that with its requirements and friendly members.

However, it is not a place to join if you are looking for strong combat training, PK or dark/malicious roleplay.

Depending on the time of day, we can have between two and seven members active (though we have about 30 members active through the week). The peak time for most houses is usually 10pm-4am GMT.

Ty Beirdd are similar, but focus on high art and poetry. They are tied to the politics of Cyrene and in direct (friendly) competition with the CIJ.

The Shadowsnakes and Crownmerchants are not anything I can pass comment on, though each are good to join in their own way.

"Trust in me, Universe, I will deliver / the promise that no-one shall ever / set their mind to games or play / for Serious Order is the way. I will not rest until it is done; / rules will be made for everyone. / They will know Order and its graces - and just like me, all shall be Greyfaces." - The Heroes of Sapience, Act 5, Greyface.

@Tvistor Jesters are meant to be whacky and do things. My problem with Mhaldor and Blood Congregation IS half because of the RP and the rules because the RP enforces them that much more. I want my character to act like a Jester not be Evil Slave #XXXX. I am not saying there is anything wrong with the city/house just that it isn't what I want to roleplay.

@Beya Does this mean most of the main houses are semi-empty because people are doing their own thing in clans? It's not that I want to PK or do dark/malicious gameplay per se it's just that I want to interact with people, not have my character restricted RP wise by insane rules.

Mhaldor is very much the "cog in the machine" kind of evil, it's true. You're a minion in service to an oppressive theocracy, be it as a nefarious ritualist, a black knight, or an assassin in the business of slow deaths, and there's a rigid hierarchy of dark overlords and their henchmen. As the city that basically serves as Achaea's go-to antagonist, Mhaldor has to run a tight ship. This is why it's often considered to be "Achaean hard mode": rewarding, but tough as nails. (This can be said of most aligned groups, to varying degrees.)

Based on what you're asking, I'd recommend Ty Beirdd simply because it's focused strongly out of Cyrene. Hashan and Cyrene are the two unaligned cities, and while they've their own laws to follow, they won't demand much in the way of service. Also, since Cyrene is one of the larger cities, you'll seldom want for interaction.

Mhaldorian RP might not be for everyone - especially at the level when you're a novice and a slave. If you're a totally new player (which is going to be my assumption), without the right mindset, Mhaldor might be a hard pill to swallow at first. Things really start looking up once you get past the requirements to at least Droch, and you make it to CR 2, or so it was in my case.

But as it seems that the main problem you have is the type of RP, and not the quality (I hope ) it would honestly be best for you to try out different houses. Unfortunately this is my first character so I can't recommend other houses to you but I definitely hope you stick around Achaea and find a better fit for what you what to do. I'm not quite sure you're looking for in Jester RP, but Beya's an excellent RPer, and would recommend at least checking out the CIJ and what he does as a Jester.

It's sad to possibly see you go, but as a player, I'll get behind your decision 100% so long as it is the best decision for you to have fun and stick with the game. Mhaldor is not for everyone (as much as our characters believe to the contrary).

Regarding Mhaldor, everything that @Delphinus said is pretty much right on the money. We are the smallest city, but the Congregation is the largest house in that city, and I've worked hard to make is as novice "friendly" as it is, and as you've experienced. The tough part, at least in my eyes, has always been the RP-tack of jesters and bards. This is made even more difficult by the lack of current experienced players who can offer insight not only into combat mechanics, but also into how to properly play the character.

My own take is thus:

Jesters are puppet masters, wielding living dolls of their victims that they command to their whim, and bend to their will. Harkening back to Shaitan and the theology of oppression (which I'm assuming still exists despite recent events as part of an amalgam of Evil), a Mhaldorian jester-priest is going to be driven to control. To make their will manifest into reality by pulling the strings of their victims. They may themselves be only a slave, and subject to the will of their own masters, who in turn have masters still of their own -- but it is here, when they are contorting the limbs of their victims into a mangled mess, that they are able to preach to their victims something of the power of oppression, and suffering, to transform.

The old Shayatin order of Shaitan, though, didn't just look at oppression as being a destructive force. They saw any attempt to bend the natural world, or the actions of another, as being fundamentally a creative force. To the Shayatin: the magi, the politician, and even the gods themselves bend something to their own will so as to construct a more perfect world. The jester, then, is particularly adept at making this happen on a more, shall we say, personal level.

I fully see the Mhaldorian jester-priest as someone who would convert and preach mid-combat, of sorts. (With an OOC-willing victim), they would construct a doll of them, and perhaps break a leg, or make them bleed a little. And then, they would use the puppet to force their victim to utter one of the Seven Truths, or perhaps to preach out of the pain that they are experiencing. Or perhaps take an action that they would not otherwise, such as bow prostrate before a shrine or statue to Sartan, or carve a pentagram into their flesh. Rinse, and repeat.

The Mhaldorian jester-priest would be fanatical about whom their own "puppet masters" are, and over whom they themselves are able to exert control. There's plenty there, but a lot of it is untested waters.

Personally, I find that a Jester could do some very nice black as pitch humor in Mhaldor. Kinda Joker-esque but with Achaean twists.

@Nizaris described it pretty well, but I was thinking more stuff along the lines of using illusions (if the bloody hocus pocus line wasn't in) to make them see horrors beyond imagining and introduce them to suffering that way. Make them believe that ice is creeping along their veins or that countless knives are taking little bit by bit out of their skin and working their way up from their feet to make it last as long as possible.

All the while cracking jokes and horrible puns about what they're doing, but not with their actual voice. Some echoey dissonant thing that haunts at the ears and taunts them with undercurrents of a language that they can't understand, but they know is mocking them or hiding some truth.

Yeah ... pretty sure that a Mhaldorian Heath Ledger has been done again and again and ... Besides, Joker's brand of "chaotic evil" (to borrow a D&D phrase) of destroying everything without discrimination isn't very Mhaldorian (which is more of a lawful evil alignment, if we were to try and peg it on the D&D alignment boards).

So, that's why I went another route.

Regarding "funny" ... I didn't see that Rashi was wanting to do funny RP in particular, but was mostly just looking for an RP direction, in general. Admittedly, figuring out how to do a Mhaldorian jester is ... tough from the get-go, without knowing a few ideas. That's not to say that funny is verboten in Mhaldor -- just goofiness.

Insanely twisted, black humour? Hell yes. I have always wanted to do an IT type clown in Mhaldor. Hell, once you get ranked high enough you could even do a Joker type character. Clowns are evil! All of them!

You've hit the nail on the head there when it comes to Mhaldor. At the start, things are going to be very tough for a slave. But the more respect you gain from your fellow citizens, the more freedoms you will enjoy.

I won a competition awhile ago to have Chris Bourassa paint a picture of Lodi. My profile pic is the end product.

Jesters, with their current flavour, don't belong to Mhaldor at all, IMHO. The goofy, light-hearted sort obviously doesn't belong there, and the dark evil clown is just such a horrible cliché that I prefer all forms of pregnancy and possession RP by far.

The only kind of "jesters" I can somewhat imagine for Mhaldor are either people who aren't jester characters at all, but simply chose to learn combat skills from other jesters because they seemed effective, or general performer types with a touch of dark humour - for which the jester class really doesn't fit very well.

I'm sure Mhaldorian Jesters can be made to work if you really want to, the same way a Mojushai serpent can technically be made to work, but in the end both are far-fetched and should be avoided if possible.

You've hit the nail on the head there when it comes to Mhaldor. At the start, things are going to be very tough for a slave. But the more respect you gain from your fellow citizens, the more freedoms you will enjoy.

Exactly. Prove yourself as a slave and when you get higher you get much more freedom than most other places.

It looks like you're set on your direction by now, but I'll comment just for reference. I wouldn't recommend any jester-classed player joining the Shadowsnakes, simply because there are a few of us working very hard on changing the entire focus of the house back to its original path as a house of thieves, assassins, and spies. And I suspect, very soon, it will resume its serpent-only class structure.

Mhaldor is an excellent place for in-character roles, and in my opinion, one of the easiest since your role is defined but you have so many ways in pursuing it. Give it a few days. You might find that you really like the atmosphere and the setting more than you thought.

@Iocun called it though. Skills like the weird balloon giraffe thing are so unMhaldorian that it's hard to square it away (which is why there was that thread where a lot of people suggested making the flavor text on jester skills more neutral). That way you could adapt it for Good/Evil/Silliness without it being particularly jarring in any of those contexts.

It's probably also important to note that jesters went even allowed in the Congregation, and only allowed in Mhaldor very briefly. It was either changed because a) we needed tarot, b) Sabiru went jester and wanted a House or a combination of the two. Prior to that though, it was generally accepted jesters had no real place in Mhaldor.

You can make all the weird flavour text work with some demented funny character.

The trick is the funny part. You can act noble, act evil, act good, act like an arse. But you can not act funny. You either are funny or you aren't. It gets even harder with dark humour because what some find funny may make others uneasy.

Sure, like quite a few other things. There are ways to make demon possession, being a tall dwarf, stuttering, evil-spy-who-infiltrated-the-church, underhanded paladin, or pacifist Mhaldorian work. None of these are inherently bad RP. But they need to be done extremely well and extremely carefully in order to succeed in a way that will manage to convince your fellow players that you're not just yet another special snowflake, so in principle, I'd rather just say "don't do those things at all". If someone is convinced she or he can pull it off regardless, still does it, and manages to do it in a cool and credible way, awesome!

My namesake character (Daeir, naturally) went from being an Eleusian Sentinel to a Mhaldorian Serpent in the Naga almost on a whim, and it is by far one of the best decisions I ever made in Achaea.

Funnily, my first character started in Mhaldor, in the same House as Rashi, so I can understand him. I was there for two days or three and then got kicked and enemied to Mhaldor, the Blood Congregation...and some other House enemied too when I talked in the Newbie channel.

He then went to the Sentinels in Eleusis and was there for three months before being kicked from City and House.

My recommendation, Rashi, would be to take it easy. There is always the possibility to make a new character to join a different House and City. There are many. And there are many players with no City or House.

But I understand you don't like the mentality. I was totally surprised...couldn't believe my eyes.

Basically the Merchants are self-motivated people. They help you when you need it, but really, you have to just do a lot on your own. There aren't a huge number of rules and regulations, just a few things to keep you from getting ganked repeatedly.

Being located in Hashan gives one advantage over Mhaldor, at least, and that is that they're going to be a slightly larger group who are around during North American daylight hours. It's a smaller city than Cyrene probably, but to my way of thinking, less 'cuddly-bunny'.

I'll wait for somebody else to mention why the SS are yet different again, my guess is that it's because while the house may not be larger than the Merchants, the city is larger than Hashan or Cyrene (number of players who are generally active at a time).

I hope that gives you some advice, but one thing I should say is that Jesters don't have to be the happy-go-lucky pranksters you may seem to think. I make jokes more often than many of my jester counterparts (I'm not a jester), most of which are worse as well. The difference is that I do them with tact, where I find many young jesters just do things like, take their pants off and tell knock-knock jokes.

"Trust in me, Universe, I will deliver / the promise that no-one shall ever / set their mind to games or play / for Serious Order is the way. I will not rest until it is done; / rules will be made for everyone. / They will know Order and its graces - and just like me, all shall be Greyfaces." - The Heroes of Sapience, Act 5, Greyface.

Sure, like quite a few other things. There are ways to make demon possession, being a tall dwarf, stuttering, evil-spy-who-infiltrated-the-church, underhanded paladin, or pacifist Mhaldorian work. None of these are inherently bad RP. But they need to be done extremely well and extremely carefully in order to succeed in a way that will manage to convince your fellow players that you're not just yet another special snowflake, so in principle, I'd rather just say "don't do those things at all". If someone is convinced she or he can pull it off regardless, still does it, and manages to do it in a cool and credible way, awesome!

Speaking from personal experience with one of those "difficult" RP lines, ill say that one problem you may run into is that unlike obvious RP which is somewhat inherent to your character once you've established a name for yourself, difficult RP lines require a lot of coordination OOC.

When its not straightforward RP you may have to really go the extra mile, which is what it seems like you want.

Mhaldor attracts a lot of hardcore players but those not combat leaning take their focus to RP and persona building.

While some of them are inactive or perhaps suspiciously departed with the advent of celani applications or the resurgence of a divine, I'd point you towards news posts by wulfen, herenicus, cypra, and many other apostates of old.

In terms of your personal struggle with finding a place, I can't say I'm in much of a different spot. The players behind Nizaris, tvistor, Azor, vrah, and Lodi especially are all very helpful and RP driven. I'm sure you could organically develop your characters path in mhaldor by asking them IC how you fit in.

I'm not exactly the best immersive role player, but I try, so if you see me kicking around mhaldor feel free to talk

Almost forgot, proficy is a perfect resource for you as well (the player, not the term.)