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"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I am ashamed of any American, who can propagate such hatred against any religion, just because murderers twist that religion for their own needs. American Muslims died in the attacks of 9/11 and hundreds of millions of people, practice the Islam religion and many share the same ideals as Americans.

Let's see, where have we heard such bigoted rhetoric before? Oh I know. All poz people are either disgusting gays or drug users, so who cares if they die. Yes, real American values.

I find it hard to believe that people are actually citing the statements of such "intellectual giants" as Sarah Palin and Newt Gingrich.

Islam isn't the only religion to be twisted to suit the needs of the moment. Christianity is rife with such abuse, from people being accused of witchcraft being burned at the stake, hanged or drowned, to that varmint Fred Phelps, who uses Christianity and the Freedom of Speech to disrupt funerals of soldiers killed abroad and, of course, those who died as a result of AIDS.

The site of the mosque/community center is two blocks from Ground Zero, not on the site itself.

While I am sympathetic to those who lost loved ones in those attacks, blaming all Muslims for the deeds of a few wing nuts would be like blaming all Christians for the atrocities committed by Charlemagne against the Germanic peoples in the name of Christianity.

Oh, and for the record, I agree with and support what the president said.

What are you talking about? You don't live in NY. Really, how many New Yorkers are for building the Mosque in that location? Since you don't live in NY MissP you don't get to vote.

Did the community board approve it or not -- they did. That's all that matters with this type of issue. It's a local issue for that community, and not even residents in Queens, Staten Island, or bumfuck Ohio.

Did the community board approve it or not -- they did. That's all that matters with this type of issue. It's a local issue for that community, and not even residents in Queens, Staten Island, or bumfuck Ohio.

The community board is not the majority of the New Yorkers. Like I said, Let's let FDNY, NYPD and the Port Authority decide. They will be the ones that it will be left upon to protect it. again MissP you don't get a vote on it.

The community board is not the majority of the New Yorkers. Like I said, Let's let FDNY, NYPD and the Port Authority decide. They will be the ones that it will be left upon to protect it. again MissP you don't get a vote on it.

The community board decides an issues like this, and you're merely exhibiting either your ignorance on this fact or allowing your ethnocentric and religious-based hatred to get the better of you. Take your pick.

Should the location of a gay community center in Chelsea be allowed a majority vote of all residents of all five boroughs of NYC? Furthermore, should Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin weigh in on the gay community center?

The community board decides an issues like this, and you're merely exhibiting either your ignorance on this fact or allowing your ethnocentric and religious-based hatred to get the better of you. Take your pick.

Should the location of a gay community center in Chelsea be allowed a majority vote of all residents of all five boroughs of NYC? Furthermore, should Newt Gingrich and Sarah Palin weigh in on the gay community center?

A clear yes or no will suffice. Thanks.

Sure they can. It's no different then you discussing the Mosque is it? You attacking me MissP because I said,Let's let FDNY, NYPD and the Port Authority decide. They will be the ones that it will be left upon to protect it?

Why are people so simple minded to not see a difference between terrorist acts of recent history, committed by terrorists, against people of all faiths, such as 9-11, and one of the world's major faiths, such as Islam?

Even George Bush could understand that.

That said, the financing for this mega center seems shady. Hope someone gets that sorted so as not go cause major embarrassment all around.

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

I tend to agree with the Canadian muslim who said that building the mosque in this location was provocative and a little bit insensitive. Should they have the right to practice their religion where they see fit? Sure, why not, but couldn't they pick a location other than where an Islamic fundamentalist group perpetrated a massive terrorist attack on US citizens (of all faiths I might add)?

I tend to agree with the Canadian muslim who said that building the mosque in this location was provocative and a little bit insensitive. Should they have the right to practice their religion where they see fit? Sure, why not, but couldn't they pick a location other than where an Islamic fundamentalist group perpetrated a massive terrorist attack on US citizens (of all faiths I might add)?

It's definitely a sensitive issue. IMO, the pres should have stayed out of this one.

I tend to agree with the Canadian muslim who said that building the mosque in this location was provocative and a little bit insensitive. Should they have the right to practice their religion where they see fit? Sure, why not, but couldn't they pick a location other than where an Islamic fundamentalist group perpetrated a massive terrorist attack on US citizens (of all faiths I might add)?

So then you also advocate relocating the other two mosques near the WTC site? What's the acceptable radius for a mosque free zone?

Also, the mosque in question isn't a mosque -- it's a community center with a prayer room. And it's two blocks away, and not even on a main street. It's on a side street.

I think you're being rather dismissive, and I think 62% of Americans would disagree with you. Does this show a growing trend of Islamphobia (sp?), perhaps maybe. But I also look at it another way, we wouldn't allow Nazi's to demonstrate on the Holocaust Memorial due to the sensitive nature of them doing so, but under the Constitution they should be allowed to. This issue is along those same lines, whether the intent is hate or ignorance, both draw upon people's emotions. As Trey pointed out, the author in Canada has even deemed this move provocative. If Muslims felt so, then why can't Americans?

And while all this happened a long 8 years ago, should we forget it's the reason we are losing young men daily?

Personally speaking, if it was me, I would build the fucker to look exactly like a scaled version of a Boeing 727 jetliner... now that would take balls son!!

No I totally get that the right wing is attempting to blow this out of proportion. I would have taken the location into consideration when picking some place for my new mosque or islamic community center to be. Were the other two mosques in place before the 9/11 attacks? I honestly don't know how far away from Ground Zero this place is as I've only heard the hub bub from all the news media outlets. I'm not big on religion in the first place of course. I feel like Christians, Jews, and Muslims should all be forced to worship together in Israel and the rest of the world could get on with being secular humanists.

And while all this happened a long 8 years ago, should we forget it's the reason we are losing young men daily?

Well no, if you're referring to the wars, then it's because Co-presidents Cheney and Bush wanted war.

The location of the mosque is certainly in bad taste, but when has that ever stopped anything from being built in America? I'm enjoying the discomfiture of the lunatic right, the champion of religious freedom and private property rights. I'd like to see plans for an indoor firing range to be added, just to add to the confusion.

I don't see anything insensitive about the Islamic community center's location. People who say it is insensitive are having both intellectual and emotional convolution and conflation of terrorists (who were Muslim) with the religion of Islam. It's very sloppy.

If I am not mistaken, the original plans for the World Trade center site memorials included an interfaith community center on the very site. It's a pity that has been dropped.

I think putting the proposed community center there, is Islamic people's way of marking the point that they MUST not be confused with a few terrorists. I see it as an act of faith in the peacefulness of the faith.

But at least the Mayor and the President speak out clearly, just as did George Bush, in his time. Obama is kind of hedging - he should have kept his mouth shut or just fully embraced all religions who want to build community and peace, around such a sink hole of hate.

« Last Edit: August 14, 2010, 10:39:17 PM by mecch »

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ďFrom each, according to his ability; to each, according to his needĒ 1875 K Marx

Yeah, apparently tolerance has its limits, especially --and ironically-- for a subset of society that deals with [and complains about] different forms of stigma on a regular basis.

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"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

If I worked in any of the new buildings at ground zero (when they all get built), I would feel better having the mosque inside the Freedom Tower. I would feel like terrorists would think twice about destroying a mosque. But, they have before so maybe that isn't good insurance.

I'm with Miss P on this. I feel for the families, but Muslims weren't responsible. A few nuts were--most of whom were from Saudi Arabia. Have we cut off relations with that country (when we have many other good reasons to do so) or stopped taking their oil? Give me a break!

This whole issue of an Islamic cultural centre at Ground Zero has got shit all to do with religion. This is about race.

Dog whistling is the same no matter where it happens. And it's not surprising to hear the same old hounds yapping away in this thread.

Speaking of yapping, it's quite a hoot to see Rodney dismissing Miss P's opinions as invalid because she doesn't dwell on Manhattan Island. I suppose the view must be pretty good from Ohio, eh Roddles?

Islam is a religion of brown people. Muslim is just a code word for "funny coloured folks". Precisely the same thing happens down here. Be they Arabs, Indonesians, Iranians, Malaysians, Sudanese, Afghans or whatever other flavour they come in we don't like 'em and we sure as shit don't want them building their nests and doing their thing near where we are.

They make us feel icky.

Sure the symbolism of a rug-kisser prayer room at the WTC site is potent, but as Miss P notes above there are others within the radius, why is this one so offensive? It's not even a fucking mosque.

This whole issue of an Islamic cultural centre at Ground Zero has got shit all to do with religion. This is about race.

Of course it is about race but it is about religion. Many Americans believe America is a Christian country and don't truly believe in freedom of religion. The litmus test is "do you believe in Jesus?" Answer yes, you are okay, answer no, you are not. There is no way a white male atheist could be elected president but a "brown" person obviously can. It is not rational, and it is blatant scapegoating, but some Americans believe Muslims are the enemy because they are not Christian and they (falsely) caused 911.

My feeling is if the zoning committee would approve a church or synagogue on the site they should approve a mosque. Also, I think Obama did the right thing by supporting religious freedom.

The only thing I hate about this thread is the use of the word "peeps" in the title. Ew. "Peeps" makes me cringe every time I hear it used.

It totally disgusts me up how so many Americans rant and rave about "freedom", like the anti-mosque "American Freedom Defence Initiative", but yet they want to curtail the freedoms of other Americans. Do they not see how ridiculous they are? Obviously the answer to that question is a resounding NO.

Of course they should be allowed to build the community center. Why shouldn't they? Their right to religious freedom is enshrined in the US Constitution. Pretty simple open and shut case if you ask me.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

To correct the OP's post, I believe President Obama said he supports the right of Muslims to build a community centre (or mosque) on the site. Isn't that in keeping with the USA's tradition of religious tolerance? However, Obama did not say he supports the specific proposal.