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Fair enough. It was the only way I could tie these things together.
Rob

Hey, I'm not saying that's not it. I'm asking because I don't know -- it's why I'm so at sea in these discussions. How do you determine if someone's got internal power, or ki, or Big Mojo, or whatever you want to call it, if you don't know what it is? So, I'm asking, because I'm trying to figure it out.

Hey, I'm not saying that's not it. I'm asking because I don't know -- it's why I'm so at sea in these discussions. How do you determine if someone's got internal power, or ki, or Big Mojo, or whatever you want to call it, if you don't know what it is? So, I'm asking, because I'm trying to figure it out.

Oh hell, Mary come out and see me or I'll see if I can come there. I mean what is it a couple hours drive? I'm just West of Worcester. I'm sure you will want to know this as it is the foundation of Aikido. You can most certainly learn it, and incorporate it into your training. I think you guys run your own show right? If so you can even tailor some training time in your dojo to practice it. I'll betcha dinner you'll want to incorporate this into your aikido and have fun doing so.

Hi Mary Eastland --
Birthing has nothing to do with internal power as some here are describing it. Labor and birth are about oxytocin and processes that are automatic and hormonally induced, not about something we females train for (Lamaze and breathing exercises aside ). And furthermore, I think that there are women out there who are learning internal skills and "softness" without ever having given birth. Now cramps... that might be another issue.

BTW, this thread has two (count 'em!) Marys.
Mary Eastland (the OP) is the one out in the Berkshires in her independent dojo. Mary Malmros (hiya Mary -- remember the ol' days at Jae Kim's?) is eastward of W'ster if I recall correctly.

BTW, this thread has two (count 'em!) Marys.
Mary Eastland (the OP) is the one out in the Berkshires in her independent dojo. Mary Malmros (hiya Mary -- remember the ol' days at Jae Kim's?) is eastward of W'ster if I recall correctly.

Yeah, and everyone should know that in the early days of rec.martial-arts, nobody messed with Mary Malmros for fear of getting skewered by her wit. If I say, "Hey, I saw Mary Malmros on AikiWeb" the old crowd will ask what she said. She paid her dues in the coin of common sense.

By that definition, though, what power produced by human beings isn't internal power? Isn't that just another way of saying "the power we produce"?

We can do the philosophy 101 argument exercise, do we really produce anything?

Human beings don't have power, thinking so is an illusion. Having power is a human ego trip of thinking you are in control. We are all controlled by nature and it's laws. We work nature's biding. If we truely had power our world and the natural world would be vastly different. We would be vastly different.

Internal power, or what ever other label you give it, is a result of the laws of science studying the nature of things applied to martial arts. "Internal power" is a word, is a term, is a label used by ancient martial artists to describe the use of the laws of nature as a way to defeat the unwitting enemy more effectively. Without the enemy figuring it out- see it coming. And the idea of internal power is over-rated, hyped and used as a marketing tool. That is what has become a large part of today's martial arts is to attract students to the dojo, so you say you got something the other guys don't. What ever internal power is, it is linked to the laws of physics, the laws of nature. It is using physics to the fullest, applying it to fighting. Internal power is associated by so many people to be something magical or supernatural which it isn't, but makes for good story telling.

Internal power is physics that was discovered and applied to fighting by those who in the modern world would be today's nerds. It was the edge over those who didn't get it. Today, there are those like O'Sensei who mastered internal power better then most. He understood how to use physics to his advantage. Understanding how to use physics in terms of martial arts is internal power. That is why O'Sensei was so skilled at his waza, the reason why he was heads and tails above the rest. He figured it out, and figuring it out is internal power. That is why we all don't understand it, cause we haven't figured it out.

Controlling nature and other people is an illusion for the most part.
Controlling ourselves is not - that seems to be your delusion if I'm reading your expressed thoughts correctly.
Aiki skills are about the latter primarily not so much about the former. The confusion is that for example if someone pushes into you stupidly going against the nature of things to try to control you - then in truly controlling yourself they get controlled. Once that is established, they become part of you and then of course you can control them. If you do that with tricks, and movement muscles primarily then your control will not be nearly as profound as compared to using uncommon body structure developed as "aiki" - which can be thought of internal physical harmony that extends into and encompasses others who are attacking you. That be can trained much more directly than we typically do in aikido or more and more indirectly. ( If you don't believe me gab my wrist. ) If giving birth helps women mentally touch some internal harmony image - I can see it aiding and helping to some degree. (I'm working hard here to tie these things together. It's like a lateral thinking exercise.)

I don't see how physics describes the effect of mental intentions so well. I sincerely doubt that Osensei (please drop the O' thing because he wasn't Irish) thought in those terms. Nothing about his or his DR teachers histories or reputations sends me the message "nerd". We use math and physics to try to approximate, predict, and prepare for reality. Not everyone works that way. I doubt gymnasts are working out the physics of their events. The best ones are learning imagery. Nerds may study them, but I doubt any of them would be more successful if they worked out some equations regarding their Olympic performances.

That was the thing about getting those Russian Olympic coaches over here so we could start winning. The big secret was that they used imagery in their training/coaching.

My feeling about aiki is that you need imagery AND you need to feel someone who already has this developed AND direct solo exercises for fastest results. You have to put in the work.

Birthing = total mind body co-ordination (for me...no drugs).
It happened years ago...my youngest in 24...the feeling of total mind + body co-ordination remains even though I had no idea about it at the time. I had not started training yet.

The feeling of being centered like that ( in a different, deep way) came back to me the other day.

Oh hell, Mary come out and see me or I'll see if I can come there. I mean what is it a couple hours drive? I'm just West of Worcester. I'm sure you will want to know this as it is the foundation of Aikido. You can most certainly learn it, and incorporate it into your training. I think you guys run your own show right? If so you can even tailor some training time in your dojo to practice it. I'll betcha dinner you'll want to incorporate this into your aikido and have fun doing so.

Hey, thanks Dan -- I'd love to take you up on that. Sometime next month, maybe?

BTW, this thread has two (count 'em!) Marys.
Mary Eastland (the OP) is the one out in the Berkshires in her independent dojo. Mary Malmros (hiya Mary -- remember the ol' days at Jae Kim's?) is eastward of W'ster if I recall correctly.

Oh lord, the penny finally drops...Cady!!!!! How are you??? I'm not exactly eastward of Woostah any more...well, I am three days a week, when I'm in Boston, but I live way out in the western part of the state (northern Berkshires, thankyouverymuch). What's up with you these days?

Yeah, and everyone should know that in the early days of rec.martial-arts, nobody messed with Mary Malmros for fear of getting skewered by her wit. If I say, "Hey, I saw Mary Malmros on AikiWeb" the old crowd will ask what she said. She paid her dues in the coin of common sense.

You mean the old crowd still exists, in some coherent form? I bailed from r.ma when it got totally silly. Anyway, you can tell the old crowd that I've been borged, heh.

Hi Mary Eastland --
Birthing has nothing to do with internal power as some here are describing it. Labor and birth are about oxytocin and processes that are automatic and hormonally induced

yeah, I stayed out of this thread, but lots of what has been discussed my wife said about her one experience of childbirth. But one rather major difference was that her birthing experience involved a C-section and lots of morphine due to premature loss of amniotic fluid... So I'm just reading along thinking those naturally occurring painkillers our bodies make sure do make for some interesting altered states of consciousness...

Hey, Dan, next time I'm out that way I'm gonna have to look you up. Gotta see some of those famous swords and feel some of this stuff too.

Blek,
I've two swords and and naginata blade and several tanto all unmounted sitting up against the wall. we still use them for test cutting on trees though. Care to mount some blades?? Other than opening up the shop for my sons school project I haven't forged in years. Everyone is buggin me to start up again though. I stopped because I got a major repetitive motion, tennis elbow thing for two years that just got worse. I'm gettin the bug again though.
Anytime your in the hood give me some notice and we can play.

Yeah, and everyone should know that in the early days of rec.martial-arts, nobody messed with Mary Malmros for fear of getting skewered by her wit. If I say, "Hey, I saw Mary Malmros on AikiWeb" the old crowd will ask what she said. She paid her dues in the coin of common sense.

Mike

Mary's wit is just one of the things you could get skewered by. The other was her reverse punch.

Oh lord, the penny finally drops...Cady!!!!! How are you??? I'm not exactly eastward of Woostah any more...well, I am three days a week, when I'm in Boston, but I live way out in the western part of the state (northern Berkshires, thankyouverymuch). What's up with you these days?

That's quite a schlep to Boston. Whew. But I can appreciate what life in the hills must be like, to make it worth that commute.
Happy training!

Everyone is buggin me to start up again though. I stopped because I got a major repetitive motion, tennis elbow thing for two years that just got worse. I'm gettin the bug again though.

I had tennis elbow in both elbows at the same time -- got mine from whitewater kayaking, aggravated it with yardwork. Not a fun injury, for sure! What it took to heal it...basically wearing tennis elbow straps on both arms, every waking minute, for months (and not paddling). I'm still prone to it, and I always carry a strap in my dojo bag in case it starts acting up.

I had tennis elbow in both elbows at the same time -- got mine from whitewater kayaking, aggravated it with yardwork. Not a fun injury, for sure! What it took to heal it...basically wearing tennis elbow straps on both arms, every waking minute, for months (and not paddling). I'm still prone to it, and I always carry a strap in my dojo bag in case it starts acting up.

Hi Mary
The strap pretty much were useless when I started hammering again.I still remember picking up a milk jug and dropping it from the pain!! I knew the answer but couldn't face it-I had to stop forging.

The good news is that when I did that school porject with my son, I forged up some damascus and my arm was fine. So now I am sorely tempted to go back. Even my wife is Ok with it so I think it's only a matter of time.