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Hariyama with guts and flame orb has 558 attack, Machamp with No guard has 394.

Also, Earthquake is a great attack so why did you say lol. I don't get it sorry.

Flame orb have more durability than toxic orb.. toxic orb is mainly used on swallow which switchs often but isn't common on any other pokemon..
toxic orb does 1/16 in the first turn and 1/8 on the secound and in the third it does 3/8 and so on on the other hand flame orb always does 1/8 damage.

Ground and fighting have more or less the same coverage bar poison which can be hit by other moves but most fighting types prefer putting a more significant coverage move than ground like rock (rock/fighting is mostly unresisted see: terrakion) or dark or bug to hit psichic and ghost types which resist their STABs. Anyway it is usable for a few pokemons but it is mostly not productive overall (you need to really hate nidoqueen/king,golurk and croagunk to use earthquake on a fighting type)

Bullet punch is priority and machamp is really slow so.. he needs it in a pinch.Bullet punch is priority and machamp is really slow so.. he needs it to revenge kill or finish weakened sweepers or focus sash it is an important move when you are slow..

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

you'd switch him in on it. and sometimes, people dont have se attacks. point is, you're new, i understand. but in the world of competitiveness, not everything is just "oh lets se that." and choiced pokes come to mind.

So earthquake is only good against 4 pokemons ? Sorry I am still not convinced.

By reading your post, I also feel like bullet punch is very situational. Yes machamp is slow but he has HP.

Although I understand Dynamic Punch, Stone Edge and Payback clearly, I am not convinced by Bullet Punch which I would switch for Earthquake to cover electric and poison pokemons.

Those are the only 4 pokemons who resist rock and fighting coverage and are hit harder by earthquake there are few useful poison types anyway so..
Bullet punch? situational? really? how it is situational? it break focus sashs and sturdy which activated.. you are the one who listed poison jab lol it hits only grass type and even them are hit already effectively with dynamic punch..
it is way preferable to hit more pokemon overall than using something as situational as ground/fighting coverage the only fighting type who sometimes uses earthquake is terrakion and that's mostly as a filler.

Oh I guess you don't know that.. you can't switch when you KO a pokemon like in-game.

SE hits are not the only hits you will use neutral hits are sometimes better than SE (See: Dragon coverage being highly popular)

Last edited by Ilan; 8th November 2012 at 6:25 PM.

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

Those are the only 4 pokemons who resist rock and fighting coverage and are hit harder by earthquake there are few useful poison types anyway so..
Bullet punch? situational? really? how it is situational? it break focus sashs and sturdy which activated.. you are the one who listed poison jab lol it hits only grass type and even them are hit already effectively with dynamic punch..
it is way preferable to hit more pokemon overall than using something as situational as ground/fighting coverage the only fighting type who sometimes uses earthquake is terrakion and that's mostly as a filler.

Oh I guess you don't know that.. you can't switch when you KO a pokemon like in-game.

SE hits are not the only hits you will use neutral hits are sometimes better than SE (See: Dragon coverage being highly popular)

Harmiyama may have a higher attack Stat with Guts, when a Flame or Toxic orb is active, but even then, Machamp has a lot more advantages over Hariyama.

- Hariyama is stuck with a Flame Orb for this setup, so he can't utilise any useful items such as Leftovers, for recovery, or a Choice Band or Scarf for boosting Attack or Speed, respectively.

- Tying into the Choice Scarf thing, Hariyama is stuck with a middling speed, meaning that many things can come in on it and KO it before it has chance to attack, if they don't mind a Bullet Punch that is. Machamp also has a fairly mediochre speed stat, but, unlike Guts Hariyama, it can use a Choice Scarf to get around this. Scarf Machamp is a popular set

- No Guard + Dynamic Punch. This is the big one. Hariyama may have higher attack, but it can't make use of an extremely powerful move that automatically confuses your opponent and gains 100% accuracy like Machamp can.

Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!

Harmiyama may have a higher attack Stat with Guts, when a Flame or Toxic orb is active, but even then, Machamp has a lot more advantages over Hariyama.

- Hariyama is stuck with a Flame Orb for this setup, so he can't utilise any useful items such as Leftovers, for recovery, or a Choice Band or Scarf for boosting Attack or Speed, respectively.

- Tying into the Choice Scarf thing, Hariyama is stuck with a middling speed, meaning that many things can come in on it and KO it before it has chance to attack, if they don't mind a Bullet Punch that is. Machamp also has a fairly mediochre speed stat, but, unlike Guts Hariyama, it can use a Choice Scarf to get around this. Scarf Machamp is a popular set

- No Guard + Dynamic Punch. This is the big one. Hariyama may have higher attack, but it can't make use of an extremely powerful move that automatically confuses your opponent and gains 100% accuracy like Machamp can.

Scarf Machamp popular? are you sure?

a Choice Scarf set might seem like a good idea; however, even with this item attached, Machamp can't even outpace Timid Mismagius, making it a poor choice.

-Smogon

base 55 speed pokemons don't use choice scarfs..
Probably you won't see pokemons under base speed of 65 with choice scarfs.. if you don't outspeed everything unscarfed or at least your targets (like magnezone) you shouldn't use scarf.

Last edited by Ilan; 8th November 2012 at 9:33 PM.

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

No, I use pleny of gimmicks I like using them but I don't use useless stuff like poison coverage or ground/fighting coverage or bad moves like hyper beam and such.
There is a difference between gimmicks and stuff than can't work even on theory. in one of my teams I used golurk in OU although using a smogon set still.. I mostly make gimmiks in NU with eviolite and stuff I don't always use strict sets the machamp set I posted is from smogon but I can alter it by need if I feel like I need to survive rotom-W bolt switch 4 times or add earthquake if I feel golurk is everywhere (note: he is not)
To know what coverage you need to use you should know what threats exist in the metagame and be able to hit most of them.

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.

Competitive attling have sort of creativity but in the same time it doesn't if you like using things that don't work it's your choice if you choose to avoid competitive battling it's your choice.. hairihama is just outclassed by machamp in terms of offense 100% confusion on an attacking move is so much better than another guts sweeper..

Originally Posted by Professor Oak

Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.