I still say we'll never know. Saying that Ledger deserved it is conjecture. Even if I agree it's still just that. Lots of performances which a majority of people feel are nomination worthy are over looked I'm sure. How do we know had he lived it wouldn't have also fallen to the way side of the Academy?

Been a little too busy to follow the Blu-Ray/DVD news the past few weeks, are there any good bonus items that are exclusive to any retailers?... Not so much interested in things like statues or comics, my interest falls more to bonus discs and that sort of thing...

Not really. You have to remember that the perception of Jackson's win at the time was that it was in recognition of the cumulative effort of the trilogy; not so much for ROTK itself. .

I don't buy that for a second. Yeah, ROTK probably won the Oscar on all three films' behalf but the Dark Knight Trilogy is not in the same ballpark quality-wise. Also, Return Of The King WAS the best LOTR movie by far. The same cannot be said of TDKR.

Besides, I'm merely talking Oscar NOMINATIONS. Nobody thinks that had The Dark Knight been nominated that it would have won.

People trying to downplay Oscar expectations for Rises by using LOTR as an example are grasping at straws.

Not really. You have to remember that the perception of Jackson's win at the time was that it was in recognition of the cumulative effort of the trilogy; not so much for ROTK itself. .

I don't buy that for a second. Yeah, ROTK probably won the Oscar on all three films' behalf but the Dark Knight Trilogy is not in the same ballpark quality-wise. Also, Return Of The King WAS the best LOTR movie by far. The same cannot be said of TDKR.

Besides, I'm merely talking Oscar NOMINATIONS. Nobody thinks that had The Dark Knight been nominated that it would have won.

People trying to downplay Oscar expectations for Rises by using LOTR as an example are grasping at straws.

That is your opinion and that's okay. It doesn't make opposing opinions invalid. It's not like we're talking about something quantifiable here.

If we want to talk about trilogies that did great business and transcended their built in genre fanbases, then why not compare the two? It shouldn't offend anyone either way though maybe I'm too rational for this sort of thing.

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I agree. The whole Heath Ledger nomination was due to his death. If look in the past the Academy has done this plenty of times. Had he lived, that nomination would never have happened. It wasn't because Dark Knight was a good movie or that his performance wasn't good but the fact he died and the Academy always love honoring the fallen performers who post posthumous make it into the spotlight.

The difference there is that The Dark Knight was actually a great film and would have deserved an Oscar nomination had it gotten one. In fact, its snub was a big part of the reason the Academy changed the rules to allow more than five Best Picture nods. Most critics agreed that it was an inexcusable oversight. And whether or not Ledger deserved to win the Oscar is debatable (you are right that his death WAS a factor in the win) but he certainly at least deserved to be nominated.

The Dark Knight Rises is in neither that film nor The Return Of The King's league. Not even close.

Once again that is also opinion-

as I believe the Dark Knight was a horrible movie- and Heath Ledgers Joker was horrible (even Nicholsons was better)-- Although sure the "academy" says it was a great movie-- they also said Black Swan was as well-- and that is my go to movie now as the worst movie every made by a real studio.

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Wow... Nicholson better than Ledger... That really shows what side of the fan base fence Stew here is on. If you want to be really analytical about it none of them are great. Nicholson is like that imposter from Batman 450 and 451 who was running around pretending to be the Joker.AndLedger is what Ultimate DC would have made the Joker like.

I think some of us forget that we may not like how these Jokers are written... which writing and acting can be two different things. If you compared two, Ledger is actually acting while Nicholson is just showing up and reading lines.

Wow... Nicholson better than Ledger... That really shows what side of the fan base fence Stew here is on. If you want to be really analytical about it none of them are great. Nicholson is like that imposter from Batman 450 and 451 who was running around pretending to be the Joker.AndLedger is what Ultimate DC would have made the Joker like.

I think some of us forget that we may not like how these Jokers are written... which writing and acting can be two different things. If you compared two, Ledger is actually acting while Nicholson is just showing up and reading lines.

I know writing and acting are two different things-- I wish they would just turn B:TAS into a real movie- that is the quintissential Batman and Joker to me- writing, directing, acting-- (although I also like Romero's Joker as well). Joker to me is supposed to be a murdering psycopath, cold, smart and calculating, however subject to whims of insanity and the spontinaitey of doing something just to do it-- not to mention knowing that Batman would never kill him--to completely push his buttons.. I just didnt get that in Nolans Joker- yes he was cold and calculating -he was more just a criminal mastermind that liked to wear makeup- but not really subject to the insanity or goofiness that makes Joker

Yes I hated the way Nolans Joker was written-but I didnt like Ledger as well-- and that god awful lip licking tongue thing was stolen from Tolkien's Grimer Wormtongue and it just didnt fit the character-- and completely took me out of the movie the entire time (It might have been Nolans choice but I put it on Ledger.)- not that I didnt like ledger in some of his other movies- but really he is more of a light comedy kind of guy-- and was tough to buy in any dramatic role-- he was fine in 10 things I Hate about you and Knights Tale-- but could have been replaced with a cardboard cutout in the Patriot..

Even Nicholson's joker was more to character- like the insane romp through the art museum, the oversized gun, and the cosmetics interaction jokers toxin.. (Cold calculating and psycopath- but with that insane tilt to the entire plot- including the commercial)

_________________Fastest know derailer of threads in the know universe...expanded or otherwise.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that Ledger's Joker is more like what a crazy psychopath actually is than Romero or Nicholson. Yes, the non-threatening cartoon clown bad guy from 66 & 89 were fun and spirited and I won't argue made a little more sense toting around guns with bang flags hanging out of them and going "whoo-hoo-hoo!" and spraying green gas that makes you smile to death, but real vigilantes don't typically carry shark repellent either. if what you want to remember about batman is the fun light hearted biff pow and climbing up a sideways wall on batropes or having a batmobile with giant edward scissorhands fins on the back, that is all good. enjoy it. i enjoyed those movies immensely. but in the universe that nolan set up for the trilogy, ledger played an homicidal psychopath better than just about anyone I've ever seen do it. everytime he explained something to someone in a whoo whoo goofy joker voice, you could see in his body language that what HE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS RIP THEIR THROATS OUT AND SCREAM THE INSTRUCTIONS INTO THEIR MINDS VIA THE TREACH TO MAKE THE PITIFUL MONGRELS JUST UNDERSTAND A SIMPLE EXPLANATION!!! see, there's a thing non-crazy people will never know. and i believe that's something ledger tapped into for the character and actually came to understand and ultimately what led to his death. you cant just suddenly figure crazy out. it's like if you spend your life living on the couch eating potato chips in sweat pants and suddenly someone buys you a tuxedo, feeds you some acid and puts you on a merry go round. you couldnt handle it. it might be fun for a minute, but for most people, the terror would creep in and you'd need your couch back fast. there are some people who are dying for a 24 hour hallucanogenic merry go round and a self cleaning tuxedo. jack nicholson is not one of those people and looking cool in a purple suit doesnt change that.

_________________If it's as powerful as you say it is, it shouldn't need you to protect it from me.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that Ledger's Joker is more like what a crazy psychopath actually is than Romero or Nicholson. Yes, the non-threatening cartoon clown bad guy from 66 & 89 were fun and spirited and I won't argue made a little more sense toting around guns with bang flags hanging out of them and going "whoo-hoo-hoo!" and spraying green gas that makes you smile to death, but real vigilantes don't typically carry shark repellent either. if what you want to remember about batman is the fun light hearted biff pow and climbing up a sideways wall on batropes or having a batmobile with giant edward scissorhands fins on the back, that is all good. enjoy it. i enjoyed those movies immensely. but in the universe that nolan set up for the trilogy, ledger played an homicidal psychopath better than just about anyone I've ever seen do it. everytime he explained something to someone in a whoo whoo goofy joker voice, you could see in his body language that what HE REALLY WANTED TO DO WAS RIP THEIR THROATS OUT AND SCREAM THE INSTRUCTIONS INTO THEIR MINDS VIA THE TREACH TO MAKE THE PITIFUL MONGRELS JUST UNDERSTAND A SIMPLE EXPLANATION!!! see, there's a thing non-crazy people will never know. and i believe that's something ledger tapped into for the character and actually came to understand and ultimately what led to his death. you cant just suddenly figure crazy out. it's like if you spend your life living on the couch eating potato chips in sweat pants and suddenly someone buys you a tuxedo, feeds you some acid and puts you on a merry go round. you couldnt handle it. it might be fun for a minute, but for most people, the terror would creep in and you'd need your couch back fast. there are some people who are dying for a 24 hour hallucanogenic merry go round and a self cleaning tuxedo. jack nicholson is not one of those people and looking cool in a purple suit doesnt change that.

This is an awesome post. BTAS' Joker was the best but there is no way that kind of performance would be believable in live-action to modern audiences. The fact that Nicholson was able to take it as far as he did without the first Batman movie seeming as big of a joke as the Schumacher ones is a minor miracle.