GW2 and Novelty

GW2 has major issue with novelty of its content. The developer have spent most of their time developing each unique zone with its own content to complete and while it was incredibly fun to go through each zone when the game came out, it has now turned into huge desolate world. Now I almost never see another person in the 20-70 zones and even Orr and the starter zones are becoming empty, and why should they revisit the zones? If they have 100% map completion why visit an area that you have completed? The leveling experienced in GW2 was by far the best leveling I experienced In any MMO but it is sad that all this content is seldom revisited now. This translates into quickly getting bored of “end game” material due to having to repeat a very narrow portion of game content and developing need to acquire a gear treadmill in order to make content more interesting and goal oriented.

The issue is novelty with GW2. Everything but dungeons and Orr only need to be completed once. For map completion you only need to do hearts, vistas, waypoints, and POIs once, just once. Jumping puzzles lose their difficulty after the first completion. Aesthetic gear can be acquired through the TP, Mystic Forge, and Dungeons and you can raise the funds for all this by zerging Orr, or running dungeons everything else nets less money for the time. This leaves so much of the rest of the game out, and robs GW2 of its beautiful environments, rich lore, and a chance to continue developing GW2 as a mystical world where saving the world actually involves being out in the world.

Lack of Collectables (Gem store does not count)

GW2 has no form of collectible outside of the cash shop. Collectibles can be a display of commitment to playing the game and a showcase of feats achieved in content. As it is now it just shows that you either converted gold to gems or bought them with real world money. Where is the prestige in that? How does that help someone achieve a sense of completion or achievement? GW2 is greatly lacking in things to display and collectibles could be a great way to revive the now lonely Tyria.

Zone specific/ Meta events

There is a current lack to revisit lower level zones all the shinies are held up through crafting or dungeons. Items and rewards from lower level zones just don’t match to the items from the mystic forge or dungeons. Adding ways to acquire cool skins through being out in the world is vital for a game the marketed a Dynamic World.

- Meta events should provide more rewards than just silver and karma. There has to be unique items specific to each meta event in order for people to do them. With the current build of the game people just take the min/max mentality and avoid lower level zones.

- Maybe add in items that are specific to the zone(or zones that are alike) that have a chance to drop from events and guaranteed from the meta event. For example Legionnaire weapons but to a greater extent and not relying on RNG for drops, but instead something along the line of WvWvW honor tokens.This essentially turns rewards from zones into something on par with dungeon rewards

o Events in general should provide rewards based on level instead of zone. It’s not a huge difference in revenue but it is enough for people to not consider zones other than Orr as an option.

Jumping puzzles/ Mini dungeons replay value

Most jumping puzzles don’t ever get revisited by someone side from the jumping dungeon in WvWvW. It is very obvious why people revisit the jumping dungeon and it is because it provides an adequate reward for completion. It would benefit the replay value of jumping puzzles and mini dungeons to incorporate some form of currency in other to give incentives to replay a jumping puzzle.

Mystic Forge and PVE

The mystic forge was a great idea to provide a fun way to discover recipes from items that would otherwise be sold to merchants. However as it is currently implemented it is required in order to get almost any of the cool skins in the game. Which is fine for some items but not for all of them. The mystic forge also prevents skins to be something that requires a player to visit zones other than Orr. Almost all the mystic forge weapons involve t6 material and requires very little exploration of content. The Mystic forge should be the end all of all skins.

Of course many other issues have to be resolved and implemented (underflow servers maybe?). I’m not saying that my suggestions are the way to go but GW2 has to address issues of novelty in order to revive the open world of Tyria. Anet has to provide more incentives for player to revisit some of the zones. It could bring back some of the favorite moments of leveling that took place in the first month of release and provide a more unique game that isn't just another dungeon run grind. I really do love GW2 and I’ll play it as long as I can but I really hope this game really does become its own standard in gameplay instead of following other MMO’s layout.

Please tell me the name of an MMO in which you find its leveling zones consistently well-populated because i haven't played it. In every MMO i've played there are zones where people are concentrated and then zones that are devoid of people. The world in GW2 is fairly large and to expect transitional zones to be brimming with people is unrealistic. Anet should look into doing something like incursions where each day a particular zone is under siege and has special events and rewards to bolster the exposure of zones to players, but there is nothing profoundly wrong with the zones as is.

1. Waypoint fees.
2. The lack of rewards that one obtains by trading in generic currencies - I could earn my FOW set by playing through the game 3 million times (which I did). I'll never earn my AC dungeon gear by not playing AC. And those that are available, are pretty much only of the insane variety - 100+ gold for T3 and 500k karma for the karma set?

EDIT:
I just remembered the 3 million non-max sets this game offers. So, it might actually not be the insanely low selection of gear you can get for universal currencies that bothers me, it's the mix of non-max gear (meaning you HAVE to buy T-Stones) and the whole added vertical progression. I mean, why play a pretty princess if it doesn't make sense to not play a strong knight?

This plays exactly into an idea I've had to solve this. Right now, people farm dungeons, Orr, and even places like Frostgorge, for legendaries, exotics, etc... Why not make the items for this drop all over the map, but perhaps limited to geographic regions. That way if you want certain items, you have farm certain regions for them. Even above that, make a lot of high demand items come from karma vendors that only become available after multi event chains, like the Orr temples. Make them equally expensive so they have to keep coming back.

Now the lower level people have help completing content, while higher level people are getting something valuable to them. And since different people are going for different drops, different gear, high level players will be balanced across the map if items are carefully bound to certain regions. It's the next logical step after the implementation of level scaling.

They already have some degree of level-appropriate drops implemented, so no worries of a level 10 getting a precursor drop and retiring.

I also really like those 'scavenger hunt' quests they add to the special events (Mad King, Lost Shores). It's another great way to get people into lower level content. Maybe even mix quests like that in to lead you to your gear and craftable drops. But that starts to segue into an idea I had for an entirly new looting scheme. I'll leave that for another time.

Please tell me the name of an MMO in which you find its leveling zones consistently well-populated because i haven't played it. In every MMO i've played there are zones where people are concentrated and then zones that are devoid of people. The world in GW2 is fairly large and to expect transitional zones to be brimming with people is unrealistic. Anet should look into doing something like incursions where each day a particular zone is under siege and has special events and rewards to bolster the exposure of zones to players, but there is nothing profoundly wrong with the zones as is.

1. Waypoint fees.
2. The lack of rewards that one obtains by trading in generic currencies - I could earn my FOW set by playing through the game 3 million times (which I did). I'll never earn my AC dungeon gear by not playing AC. And those that are available, are pretty much only of the insane variety - 100+ gold for T3 and 500k karma for the karma set?

What's wrong with some armor having some prestige to it?
Although dungeon armors (except maybe Arah) already have been ruined by making dungeons so incredibly easy.

These are actually pretty solid ideas that would make the game even better. Only the jumping puzzles tend to be better as one - offs, but I wouldn't object to them giving a tiny cosmetic reward like a dye, or something bigger but only, say, once a month or something.

I completely agree on the collectable point. There're no special items from special monsters or bosses that intrigue players. If for instance the Giant of Nageling dropped a uniquely skinned exotic hammer, then there'd be a lot more reason for people to fight him, thus more people would revisit this place for farming purposes (and no, farming isn't a bad thing. It keeps the world alive).

The point can be made that if you didn't have vertical progression, it would remain interesting to play around in all zones. That the problem with people disappearing from zones is that feeling of being forced to get the very latest gear to see the latest content. You could also make the argument that games like Just Cause, Grand Theft Auto, Fallout, and almost any Elder Scrolls game (right up to Skyrim) tends to have players revisiting lots of places simply because it's fun to be there, and there's a benefit to be lots of places in the game, rather than just having one linear line throughout.

You could argue that in a horizontal progression game, you'd be able to more readily hang around in the zones you like, because you wouldn't feel the compulsion to be anywhere else due to the gated content that you haven't seen, or due to high-end gear that you might not have. So players would be more widely spread out, doing content that they actually enjoy and have fun with. I know games like Grand Theft Auto and Fallout aren't MMOs, but they easily could be. I've often heard Bethesda's games described as a single player MMO, and the reason people play them over MMOs is due to the lack of vertical progression, which tends to make them more fun.

So if you want to go and defeat Alduin right at the start, you can. You could also faff around with quests like the Thieves' Guild and so on, and then save Alduin for later. In a game like that you tend to be having fun wherever you are. Even if you're just out gathering butterflies and mushrooms for your latest concoction.

And finally... @Asudementio:

Whilst it may not be your kind of MMO, Free Realms has people very evenly spread out over all of its areas. Why? There's a massive variety of content, and their Christmas content is some of the best I've seen in any MMO. Whilst it has a kiddy theme to be casual friendly, it's still a heck of a lot of fun. I got dragged into it due to a lady friend, and I've been playing it since. I've absolutely revelled at the free waypoint system, and my ability to go wherever I want, whenever I want, and to do whatever content I like. It actually feels like Fallout and Skyrim in that regard. Even the levelling is non-linear with lots of 'jobs' that a character can do.

To be honest? Free Realms is the closest thing I've played to Ultima Online. And, oh, hey... that's another MMO where players were spread out all over the world. I could namedrop EvE Online, too, but that's just too easy. Just because the vast majority choose to do things in ways that I find really boring, that doesn't mean they all do it that well. Really, pick up Free Realms, see past the aesthetics and understand what it does right, and why. I'd love to have a serious science-fantasy MMO which takes after a good number of the Free Realms design tenets.

I`d like to see a shadowrun setting mmo but skill based leveling system and 70 % sandbox game with 30% themepark tacked on . and player building like in shadowbane .

sadly tho we`ll most like end up getting a level based , hand holding quest treadmill and rep,grind for rare recipes , combinded with daily quest and dungeons grinds for tokens to be traded in for armor sets like most games released in the last 8 years haha .

Please tell me the name of an MMO in which you find its leveling zones consistently well-populated because i haven't played it. In every MMO i've played there are zones where people are concentrated and then zones that are devoid of people. The world in GW2 is fairly large and to expect transitional zones to be brimming with people is unrealistic. Anet should look into doing something like incursions where each day a particular zone is under siege and has special events and rewards to bolster the exposure of zones to players, but there is nothing profoundly wrong with the zones as is.

Interesting to read posts like this. On my server, lower zones are still fairly well populated. Not all group DEs get done, but more often than not there is a player or players in my general vicinity. I have 5 80's and 3 30+, so I spend a lot of times in zones of all levels.

Obviously, others have a different experience. Guess I was lucky in my choice of servers.

1. Waypoint fees.
2. The lack of rewards that one obtains by trading in generic currencies - I could earn my FOW set by playing through the game 3 million times (which I did). I'll never earn my AC dungeon gear by not playing AC. And those that are available, are pretty much only of the insane variety - 100+ gold for T3 and 500k karma for the karma set?

EDIT:
I just remembered the 3 million non-max sets this game offers. So, it might actually not be the insanely low selection of gear you can get for universal currencies that bothers me, it's the mix of non-max gear (meaning you HAVE to buy T-Stones) and the whole added vertical progression. I mean, why play a pretty princess if it doesn't make sense to not play a strong knight?

I must be bad at math or something, because 42k karma per piece multiplied by 6 pieces works out to 252k karma, and not 500k. Or were you being overly hyperbolic to make a flawed point? You've also forgotten that you can craft armor as well. It just so happens that both of these armor sets can be acquired through exceedingly casual gameplay. If you were making a point about the armor skins, however, you can resolve this in one of two ways. Run the instance as they're very, very easy (although most pugs would make you think otherwise), or you can pay for one of the runs that I'm starting to see crop up more and more often. Seems simple enough to me.

If you'd like to start drawing parallels between GW1 and GW2 in order to compare, I'd like to point out that there were, indeed, armor sets you needed to do specific content for in order to acquire. Namely all of the EotN armor sets and the various headpieces that required you to run Dungeons. I'd also like to point out that clearing the game many times in order to afford FoW armor is extremely inefficient, considering you could 55/SS, 600/Smite, or VwK the UW in order to farm ectos with an almost flat learning curve. To each his own, I suppose.

Interesting to read posts like this. On my server, lower zones are still fairly well populated. Not all group DEs get done, but more often than not there is a player or players in my general vicinity. I have 5 80's and 3 30+, so I spend a lot of times in zones of all levels.

Obviously, others have a different experience. Guess I was lucky in my choice of servers.

The point can be made that if you didn't have vertical progression, it would remain interesting to play around in all zones. That the problem with people disappearing from zones is that feeling of being forced to get the very latest gear to see the latest content. You could also make the argument that games like Just Cause, Grand Theft Auto, Fallout, and almost any Elder Scrolls game (right up to Skyrim) tends to have players revisiting lots of places simply because it's fun to be there, and there's a benefit to be lots of places in the game, rather than just having one linear line throughout.

You could argue that in a horizontal progression game, you'd be able to more readily hang around in the zones you like, because you wouldn't feel the compulsion to be anywhere else due to the gated content that you haven't seen, or due to high-end gear that you might not have. So players would be more widely spread out, doing content that they actually enjoy and have fun with. I know games like Grand Theft Auto and Fallout aren't MMOs, but they easily could be. I've often heard Bethesda's games described as a single player MMO, and the reason people play them over MMOs is due to the lack of vertical progression, which tends to make them more fun.

So if you want to go and defeat Alduin right at the start, you can. You could also faff around with quests like the Thieves' Guild and so on, and then save Alduin for later. In a game like that you tend to be having fun wherever you are. Even if you're just out gathering butterflies and mushrooms for your latest concoction.

And finally... @Asudementio:

Whilst it may not be your kind of MMO, Free Realms has people very evenly spread out over all of its areas. Why? There's a massive variety of content, and their Christmas content is some of the best I've seen in any MMO. Whilst it has a kiddy theme to be casual friendly, it's still a heck of a lot of fun. I got dragged into it due to a lady friend, and I've been playing it since. I've absolutely revelled at the free waypoint system, and my ability to go wherever I want, whenever I want, and to do whatever content I like. It actually feels like Fallout and Skyrim in that regard. Even the levelling is non-linear with lots of 'jobs' that a character can do.

To be honest? Free Realms is the closest thing I've played to Ultima Online. And, oh, hey... that's another MMO where players were spread out all over the world. I could namedrop EvE Online, too, but that's just too easy. Just because the vast majority choose to do things in ways that I find really boring, that doesn't mean they all do it that well. Really, pick up Free Realms, see past the aesthetics and understand what it does right, and why. I'd love to have a serious science-fantasy MMO which takes after a good number of the Free Realms design tenets.

before we had even ever heard of ascended gear the top armor set was exotic. you could get a level 80 exotic set in 2 weeks easy but let over do it and say a whole month. That left 1.5 to 2 months where players had the best armor. Where these players playing in the zones they liked best? nope they were all farming Orr because it gave slightly better rewards. This problem didnt come into existence with ascended gear it existed since day 1.

I told you before and I will tell you again. You can wear a common armor set and still be able to play all content in this game. Ascended gear doesnt gate anything. not even FoTM itself for which it is designed. You can play every single fractal there is without any Ascended gear at all. So no think again, people dont go after the best gear because they're forced to if they want to experience all content. Far from it. They do FoTM because they dont feel happy without having the best gear and they feel they're wasting time if they dont play the most rewarding content in the game.

Anyway on my server, Piken square people are spread all around, have yet to zone in any zone without seeing players playing around. But then again Piken square is home to role players. Role players might be the kind of horizontal players who would choose horizontal content over vertical content given the chance. Seems some people who are all for horizontal content would choose vertical content if presented with both options, thats why in my opinion there is this situation, (dont get me wrong not criticizing their play style there is no right or wrong way how to play any game only the way you enjoy. just saying this might be the reason for this situation)

So you agree his point, this game lack of design and long term targes. Or not? What he was pointing is what after all naturally an mmo player do: follow numbers, and well, orr was better numbers (gold, drops, gathering etc), fractals are better numbers (your gear). Reason because yes, you can play even arah with your white gear. Except you're an useless bag soon kicked, i doubt even your guildies plan to carry you.
No, ascended gear is not a key to play old dungeons for sure, nor was his point. The point is how the world is dead, and everyone except rare pearls don't do nothing else than log, do dailies, maybe progress and logoff. While on the game he mentioned, as much graphically inferior, gives TONS of things and fun and places to visit and something to do. Design, you know?
And yes, Free Realms chistmas event just spit on the gw2 one by miles.

So you agree his point, this game lack of design and long term targes. Or not? What he was pointing is what after all naturally an mmo player do: follow numbers, and well, orr was better numbers (gold, drops, gathering etc), fractals are better numbers (your gear). Reason because yes, you can play even arah with your white gear. Except you're an useless bag soon kicked, i doubt even your guildies plan to carry you.
No, ascended gear is not a key to play old dungeons for sure, nor was his point. The point is how the world is dead, and everyone except rare pearls don't do nothing else than log, do dailies, maybe progress and logoff. While on the game he mentioned, as much graphically inferior, gives TONS of things and fun and places to visit and something to do. Design, you know?
And yes, Free Realms chistmas event just spit on the gw2 one by miles.

I agree that the current incentives arent enough for everyone yes.

For me for example The primary motivator is exploration and story. Gw2 provides ample of that in all its zones, because of the montlhy content releases after 500 hours I am still at 51% world completion. all things being equal it will be 8 months to experiance all gw2 has to offer on one character. Then there is the personal story of the alts and filling in the lore that branches from 1 personal story of 1 race to the other. But thats just me. Someone who plays the game in a reward oriented manner (again not saying its wrong or anything like that, just a different incentive to what I have ) Will not enjoy what I enjoy cause the rewards for what I do are ordinary. Plenty of things you can do that reward you more,

Cant comment on free realms, thats one of the few MMOs I never played unfortunately. I am perfectly happy with Wintersday though, dont have anything to complain about that and I feel it had enough content and a lot of rewards much more then other MMOs really. I do also feel it does promote open world play, for example I want to have all tonics and the 3 mini pets I want to craft which means I need to collect enough presents to be able to buy the 3 extra frames i need. Since I am also a crafter might as well I stock on the wintersday crafting materials as well while I am at it. For the presents themselves starter zones are probably the ideal farming zone but mid level zones drop the high level crafting material. Besides mid level zone dolls are a good challenge so thats another incentive for me

Not saying they cant do more of course. I think it would be a good idea if they do things like collectable drops per zone for example. Or even something like the zaishen missions thingy. Not against any of that at all, actually I think they're a good idea.

3 minis? You don't have enough cogs for 3 minis, so far. So 2 minis (maybe 3 if we find a way to get 50 more gogs, maybe all of them if next days we have more and more) a few mats and recipes using them , mats no more available after the event ( so you cannot craft anymore ) , tonic gamble and a few junk toy skins are a great event for you comparable/superior to others? Seriously?
I will not spoil you the other races story idea you have, enjoy if what you have was what you need.

3 minis? You don't have enough cogs for 3 minis, so far. So 2 minis (maybe 3 if we find a way to get 50 more gogs, maybe all of them if next days we have more and more) a few mats and recipes using them , mats no more available after the event ( so you cannot craft anymore ) , tonic gamble and a few junk toy skins are a great event for you comparable/superior to others? Seriously?
I will not spoil you the other races story idea you have, enjoy if what you have was what you need.

Not sure if it was just me, but I think they did it to everyone cause I've seen other say it, yesterday, or this morning not sure I was sent a mail by toxx that had a few goodies including another 250 cogs

tonic gamble isnt that bad most people get it in less then 3 tries, but we'll see.

Rewards isnt everything for me. That being said, I told you what I was working on, already got all the toy weapon skins and quite a few bells (though no unbreakable bell alas). By the end of the event I should have, all the 8 skins, 5 tonics, 3 mini pets, a back pack, 2x 15x slot bags, well not really excited about it but there was also the free wizards hat. Even though rewards arent everything thats quite a lot. which MMOs you're playing that give you more then that?

There are also the activities themselves. The jumping puzzle a little easy but still fun, the bells guitar hero thing, not entirely my thing but I did invest some time in it, primarily to get the achievements. The snowball fight, found that quite fun, the everyday dungeon, well they werent entirely different but its nice they had a little variation. The toy apocalypse tower defense game I enjoyed.
Beyond that I enjoyed the building snowman achievement cause it gave me something to seek while farming presents, thought that was a good idea.

To me thats the biggest xmas activity I ever came across in an MMO, cant exclude there are MMO that maybe they do bigger things, havent played them all of course, but I have no doubt it definitely comes near the top.

Well in the beta I played some of the sylvari personal story and I loved the fact where a level 60ish Human personal story tied in with a couple of personal stories I did for the sylvari. (basically the human mission told me to go retrieve an artifact from these sylvari and thats it. When I was playing the sylvari personal I had a couple of mission which focused on that artifact and how the slyvari came to have it) Maybe it was a one off but if there are a few more like that to me they're totally worth playing just to fully experience the story.

You was asking an mmo with low level areas contantly populated. Wow is one of them.
I like your incursion idea, but ye without a big carrot (the reward) worthy loads, i doubt anyone is interested.
A black tabby on wow was worthy loads of money and if not just for money, worthy to be worn for the uniqueness.
If you consider player choose AC over any other just because the speedrun is the most time efficent with the higher amount of money farm than other beautiful dungeons we have, where look and content should be awesome and enjoyable. The game rotate around gold efficency, the graphic doesn't matter, nor lore , nor a damn everything they worked for inside that dungeon. Could have been a sandbox 4x4 with 4 bosses at corner, was still the most runned dungeon.

i agree with the thought that all zones need to have more to them to keep them populated, to give people a reason to come back to them. leveling my first character to 80 was so much fun, and i got 100% world completion. i love the vistas, skill points, and uncovering the map. they made it feel like i was making progress within the world, and not just going from quest to quest (even though i was doing that as well). but once you have 100% world completion, there's really no reason to go back out into the world. i mean, it's a beautifully designed world and all, but i need motivation in the form of pets or skins or special armor or a unique title, etc etc.

i'd love to go back out into the world, i just need a reason to. hopefully they give us some in the future.

i agree with the thought that all zones need to have more to them to keep them populated, to give people a reason to come back to them. leveling my first character to 80 was so much fun, and i got 100% world completion. i love the vistas, skill points, and uncovering the map. they made it feel like i was making progress within the world, and not just going from quest to quest (even though i was doing that as well). but once you have 100% world completion, there's really no reason to go back out into the world. i mean, it's a beautifully designed world and all, but i need motivation in the form of pets or skins or special armor or a unique title, etc etc.

i'd love to go back out into the world, i just need a reason to. hopefully they give us some in the future.

Yeah, for a game that basically has very limited end-game by design I think it should indeed offer more reasons to go back to the old zones... I guess the reasoning was to keep enough people in the late game zones which are generally better when decently populated, but having greater incentive to revisit our old haunts would go a long way. Also, I guess that most people are doing fractals because LA is always on overflow... So a move to revitalize the open world stuff would be very welcome!

Even so, I kinda like there being few people around... Makes the fights more interesting, and successfully 3-manning a champion in the late zones amid constantly respawning regular and veteran mobs is always memorable!