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Topic Review (Newest First)

04-17-2014 04:00 PM

Gwenhwyfair

Good intentions gone really bad? The trainer wasn't the most experienced, but appears to have a pretty balanced resume' from behavioral issues to protection dogs. Went to two different dog training schools (write up on her site about that).

I've said it once, I’ll say it again here, and in the future: Your dog’s relationship with you will determine if he’s afraid/intimidated/fearful of you. No training tool should come in between your relationship with your dog. The same goes for food. If your dog is only working for the food that you have, and blows you off when you don’t have food, then that’s a relationship problem.

04-17-2014 03:46 PM

Freestep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baillif

Makes perfect sense if you're trying to play to emotions to drum up publicity for a business. How many rescues Facebook post about their sad disaster dog case where it's an absolute mess of a dog with a sob story behind it?

Yes, like I said, there has to be an agenda.

04-17-2014 03:38 PM

Baillif

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freestep

To me, it makes no sense to "rehab" a known biter when there are untold numbers of nice, non-biting dogs that could really use those resources, and would bring great happiness to their adoptive families.

Makes perfect sense if you're trying to play to emotions to drum up publicity for a business. How many rescues Facebook post about their sad disaster dog case where it's an absolute mess of a dog with a sob story behind it?

04-17-2014 02:27 PM

Blanketback

It's like what I already posted in another thread today: it's quite easy to invoke this behavior. I'm not talking about severe genetic issues either - just teaching a dog that snapping is effective. And watch it escalate. And then throw in the towel.

But it's the same thing as me saying, "No problemo, a dog that can't be around children can still be a wonderful companion in the right environment" and then turn around and see that the new owner lets it loose in a playground. Common sense.

ETA: Dani, she hadn't had the dog long enough. With that bite history behind him, it would take a long time before my muzzle would come off in public. A very long time.

04-17-2014 02:25 PM

DaniFani

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanketback

I honestly don't even want to guess what happened here, since I didn't see the dog - that would be asinine. But no more asinine than allowing this situation to occur in the first place. WTH are people thinking when they refuse to use muzzles in public, when they KNOW the dog might bite? As much as I think most dogs deserve a chance and I'll overlook alot of things, I don't just assume that the general public agrees, and for that reason alone I'd be ultra careful.

I agree with everything you're saying about the dog needing to be muzzled in public. I'm just really curious if you've considered that maybe the trainer had had so many encounters/interactions with the dog that were so positive, that they really did trust and believe that something like what actually happened, would never happen. I know as trainers they are held to a higher standard, especially where safety is concerned. However, I really wonder if the dog hadn't shown any signs of this kind of behavior for awhile, and the trainer obviously trusted it too much, let their guard down, and over estimated their abilities. The crux of everything being that the trainer let her guard down, due to lack of seeing anything really worrisome (trainer's fault, but it's usually what happens every time with a bite. Dog showed signs, just not "bad enough" or often enough, and guards were let down).

This is why I am always SO cautious on the "my dog bit my child, grandmother, spouse, neighbor, etc" threads. It's SO easy to let your guard down. If you already don't want to see your dog in that light, and then you have people saying, "oh it'll probably be just fine, find a trainer." That's why I want to emphasize that everything is not okay at all, may not be fine, and rehoming (sometimes euth) needs to be at the forefront of the mind while a trainer is sought out. I don't want to encourage any kind of guard being let down, even inadvertently (especially over the internet). I'd rather try and keep them in that frame of mind that this is really bad, and could get even worse. As we've all said before, it only takes a second.

Ultimately I think the responsibility of this falls on the shoulders of the shelter. It's their job to determine the safety of these animals they are putting out in the general public. They are the professionals, not Facebook groups filled with bleeding hearts. They needed to stick to their guns with their original assessment, imo. It sucks, to go against a mass of people....but look at the potential outcome. Especially, as others have pointed out, there are TONS of dogs out there that need homes that don't have these issues. As terrible as some think that is, resources and money should be going to those, imho.

On a side note, it sounds like the dog really did lose it. I've seen ONE dog lose it with no one being able to get through to it (screw loose). Dog was actually a police k9 that lost it one day. It started being unable to turn off it's defense drive...I mean, unable to stop. It was incredible to see. The dog couldn't stop. It was sad. Thank goodness the person running the police academy that assessed it, took it to live out it's life at their facility. Very well managed (dog was 7 or 8), otherwise it would have just been put down.

04-17-2014 02:13 PM

Freestep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanketback

If you'd ever met any dogs that were relinquished with a bite history, then you'd see that in many cases the dogs were put in a bad situation to begin with, and that lead to the bite. Situations that our own dogs would never see in a million years. So it's not just "feeling sorry" for the dog.

Yes, but the bottom line is that not all dogs in "bad situations" resort to biting. A dog's willingness to bite a human reveals a certain temperament.

It totally depends on the situation of course, if a dog is abused to the point of having to defend himself, that's one thing. Many dogs have to pushed to bite, and some dogs won't bite even when pushed. Others will simply learn to bite in order to get their way. Sure, some can be "rehabilitated", but you always have to consider the temperament that underlies. You can effect behavior, but you cannot change temperament.

To me, it makes no sense to "rehab" a known biter when there are untold numbers of nice, non-biting dogs that could really use those resources, and would bring great happiness to their adoptive families.

04-17-2014 02:01 PM

Blanketback

I honestly don't even want to guess what happened here, since I didn't see the dog - that would be asinine. But no more asinine than allowing this situation to occur in the first place. WTH are people thinking when they refuse to use muzzles in public, when they KNOW the dog might bite? As much as I think most dogs deserve a chance and I'll overlook alot of things, I don't just assume that the general public agrees, and for that reason alone I'd be ultra careful.

04-17-2014 01:50 PM

martemchik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blanketback

If you'd ever met any dogs that were relinquished with a bite history, then you'd see that in many cases the dogs were put in a bad situation to begin with, and that lead to the bite. Situations that our own dogs would never see in a million years. So it's not just "feeling sorry" for the dog.

Yeah...that's why I don't judge when people do try to rescue/rehab these dogs. Sometimes, the people are the problem. But in this case...once the dog bit the officer in the shelter, I'm sure the excuse of, "It's just being weird because of the shelter" was used and so the dog was still considered for rehoming.

04-17-2014 01:43 PM

Blanketback

If you'd ever met any dogs that were relinquished with a bite history, then you'd see that in many cases the dogs were put in a bad situation to begin with, and that lead to the bite. Situations that our own dogs would never see in a million years. So it's not just "feeling sorry" for the dog.

04-17-2014 01:37 PM

my boy diesel

because no matter how vicious people feel sorry for them and feel they are misunderstood
biggest crock ever but that is how it is
a dog can kill a person be it adult or child and theres gonna be vigils and people feeling sorry for the dog and justifying why it has killed
so many people are freaking idiots and they are multiplying quickly

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