Saturday I was out of town and stopped by a GS to look around. I saw a 29 SF and asked to look at it. I asked to see the case only because I was curious if it had been sitting there for awhile or not. Date was 07/12/12. I bought it. Am now considering ammo. I am looking at the 165 gr. GD's from Underwood (yes, I've been researching/reading some). My questions are;

1) Above ammo good/not good/ really good/best for SD? Does anyone carry the "off the shelf" ammo for reasons such as the guy that got arrested for shooting another and his dog (in a park?) with a 10mm? If so, why not just carry a 27 as a CCW?
Whatever happened to that guy?
I have a Gen 4 21 with TLR1 for HD.

2) What holster(s) for CC (IWB) works really well for the 29? I am considering Theis holsters.

3) Does anyone make a holster (OWB) that allows carry with a light but will also secure the pistol if the light is not attached?

4) Give me some advice that you wish someone would have told you right after/before you bought a 10mm.

Want to CC it probably 9-10 months of the year. Have a PF9 for those days that I just can't go with the 29.
I'll probably think of more later. Thanks guys/girls.

Meathead9

07-29-2012, 20:28

1. I like Winchester 175gr Silver Tips (1150-1180fps). You don't need nuclear to be effective, and follow up shot speed is likely to be more important than the power of one single round. Go shoot some silvertips, then shoot some Spicy Underwood stuff, then you can make an educated decision for yourself. Why not carry a G27? Try and find a 175/180gr bullet @ 1150fps through that little bugger. I prefer full size Glocks anyway, so I chose the G20SF over the 29.

2. Theis, Crossbreed, CompTac MTAC, theyre all pretty much the same as long as you stay within that design. I'm leaning more towards AIWB these days, with a Fricke Archangel or a CCC Shaggy.

3. Safariland

4. Buy a reloading setup before you buy any accessories or dump a bunch of money into factory ammo.

Meathead9

07-29-2012, 20:29

Sorry, double post...

WeeWilly

07-29-2012, 23:11

I think the Underwood ammo is the deal of the century. Great quality, you can get Gold Dots (like you pointed out). For carry, they make a Delta Elite load which is a little lighter load wise and may improve your follow up times some. I like heavier bullets, I load 180gr XTPs for my G20SF and G29SF.

Of course, like Meathead9 pointed out, you also have the Winchester Silver Tips, plenty for SD.

Meathead9

07-30-2012, 00:21

I think the Underwood ammo is the deal of the century. Great quality, you can get Gold Dots (like you pointed out). For carry, they make a Delta Elite load which is a little lighter load wise and may improve your follow up times some. I like heavier bullets, I load 180gr XTPs for my G20SF and G29SF.

Of course, like Meathead9 pointed out, you also have the Winchester Silver Tips, plenty for SD.

I forgot to mention Underwood's Delta Elite 180gr load. Although I've never shot any of it, it sounds like another winner. I may have to give those a try to compare, the Gold Dot is another excellent choice for SD.

robert91922

07-30-2012, 10:51

1) Look/search at GATE - Self Defense Forum here for possible legal issues if SD shooting occurs and you had your own loads in gun. There had been questions/answers about that, mr. Ayoob explains it good IMO.

I have both - IWB holster from PJHOLSTERS and such Fobus holster - both highly recommended.

4) save all your 10mm brass, sooner or later you will start reloading or at least you can ask someone who does to do it for you. If you got own brass it's much easier for both.

5) Welcome to 10-Club ! You won't regret buying 10mm Glock. :cool:

MikeSantor

07-30-2012, 13:13

3) Does anyone make a holster (OWB) that allows carry with a light but will also secure the pistol if the light is not attached?

I make kydex holsters and all of my light molded holsters fit the gun with the lights off. I dont see why mine would be any different from anyone elses so I would say you should not have any problem no matter what kydex holster you buy. If it fits with the light on, there is no reason for it not to fit with the light off.

:wavey:

JeremyInMT

07-30-2012, 13:18

2) www.pjholsters.com (http://www.pjholsters.com) or send a PM to GT member coachg

Fixed that link in previous post or better said proposed another way to find Paul Giannaula's web page: google "PJ Holster LLC"

Fire_Medic

07-30-2012, 16:19

http://www.psholsters.com/

Teecher45

07-30-2012, 21:17

Thanks for all of your help guys.
I guess what I really want to know with question #1 is what most are carrying if you carry your 10mm as a CCW. Full house loads or lesser rounds. And why?
Anyone carry "roll your owns" for SD?

blk69stang

07-30-2012, 22:07

I carry full-house loads in my 20. My reasoning is this: I'd rather over-penetrate, than under-penetrate. A 200gr Nosler going 1250 fps will deal effectively with barriers, critters, and two-legged miscreants. I don't carry it in to town, so hitting an innocent on the other side is not much of a concern to me. When I go to town, I usually tote my dept-issued P2000 in .40 cal; that way I won't lose my own gun as "evidence" if I get into a shooting, there's much less risk of over-penetration in a public setting, and the full-size G20 is a bit difficult to conceal on my 6'1", 180lb frame when wearing only shorts and a t-shirt.

If I were toting a G29 as my only carry gun, I'd go for something in the 165gr flavor, that was "warm" but not "nuclear". Silvertips or similar would fit the bill nicely. Because in all reality, the shorter barrel of the 29 is going to get your velocities down into "hot .40" territory anyway. Nuclear hot loads are not going to produce that much more velocity, but they WILL produce much more muzzle flash and blast.

attrapereves

08-01-2012, 14:18

I carry handloaded 165gr Gold Dots that average between 1300 and 1340fps. I like to keep them under 1350fps since 21carrier noted that they tend to come apart at nuke velocities.

Wolf Spyder

08-01-2012, 21:03

Teecher45,

I carry a full sized 10mm Glock 20 almost everyday of the year. I also carry at least two spare, standard capacity, 15 round, G20 magazines. However, about half the time I carry as many as four spare magazines. I have been carrying the Glock 20 for over a decade.

I am now considering ammo. I am looking at the 165 gr. Gold Dots from Underwood, Is it good, bad,or soso?

I like the Speer Gold Dot 165 grain bullet. I handload my own with, carefully measured, 10.2 grains of 800X. I have not tested any of Underwood's stuff in water jugs, but everyone seems to like it. My load looks like this from my Glock 20 when recovered from the second, sometimes third, water jug...

I would buy a Glock 20 top end and a pile of standard capacity 15 round magazines and drop the 21 top end in a drawer some place to be long forgotten. These are all loaded with Winchester 175 grain Silvertips.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/JW7E2578small.jpg

What holster(s) for CC (IWB) works really well for the 29? I am considering Theis holsters.

Theis Holsters look typical of the Hybrid holsters. I would check out "Old Faithful Holsters" at this link... http://oldfaithfulholsters.com/ and see what you think.

I have used several holsters over the years. I have used the Clip Draw thingy as a quick-tuck-it-in-my-pants-on-the-way-out-the-door type of use and it worked well for me. Some folks don't like it for safety reasons...

I am currently using a Galco Summer Comfort. It is ok, but I want to try Old Faithful Holsters next. This is my EDC.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/IMG_0412small.jpg

3) Does anyone make a holster (OWB) that allows carry with a light but will also secure the pistol if the light is not attached?

+1 Safariland

4) Give me some advice that you wish someone would have told you right after/before you bought a 10mm.

I knew what the 10mm was long before I purchased my first Glock 20. I am somewhat of a geek when it comes to ballistics and handloading. I am, after all, a firearms enthusiast. So I will instead offer you some advice that I often give to others reguarding their Glock self defense pistols.

What is my FAVORITE modification to my Glocks?

Well, all of my Glocks are self defense sidearms, so I think of my modifications as those which will increase positive control over the weapon.

Also, Do Not skimp on the holster. Never. All ways buy the best holster you can afford. It always makes me laugh when I see a $1200 pistol in a $20.oo holster.

I also add a Grip Plug and I end up spay painting them at some point to help them blend in with nature, but those are not a must for a defensive sidearm.

My advice, start with the sights and buy at least 6 or 8 standard capacity (15 rounders for my Glock 20) and practice drawing from concealment and hitting a man sized target. Do this to figure out what you need to change on your pistol to increase positive control over your sidearm.

As an after thought, our words matter, folks. The left is beating us to death with these tricky words. The Glock 17 9mm was not designed with a 10 round magazine. It was designed with a 17 round magazine, so that is the "Standard Capacity" magazine for the Glock 17. The 10 round magazine is a "Reduced Capacity" magazine. Our words matter. It is far easier for the lyberal wacko's to ask why do they need "Hi-Capacity" magazines, but it is much harder for them to demand that we use "Reduced Capacity" magazines.

Want to CC it probably 9-10 months of the year. Have a PF9 for those days that I just can't go with the 29.

??? I wear cargo shorts and a polo / golf shirt and I conceal carry a 10mm Glock 20 and two magazines. A Glock 29 should be a piece of cake!!

Both 10mm Glock 20's are the same age, but one is carried more than the other...

Thanks for all of your help guys, especially Wolfy!
The only reason I would keep my 21 as my HD weapon is the fact that I have 3 boys in the house and I feel better about the .45 not going through the walls and doing damage than a 10mm. Am I wrong?
The 21 is a Gen 4 so it would be awhile before the upper/slide will be available for it.
Another reason I will probably keep the 21 is the surplus of rounds I have for it.
I ended-up ordering 250 rounds from Underwood (165 gr. GD's). I have only shot 50 rounds from it so far but I love it.

Opie 1 Kenopie

08-05-2012, 22:03

Teecher, you're going to be fine with the 21 for HD and a 29 for carry. That's pretty much my exact setup most of the year. I just picked up a new 20SF and will be rotating it into carry mode when the weather cools a little. For what its worth, I carry Silvertips (175 gr.) daily, and have some heavy 200 gr. Swampfox left over that I load for packing in the High Sierras.

Teecher45

08-09-2012, 19:59

Thanks guys.
Seriously considering trading my 21 for a 30SF just so I can interchange slides and such, if need be. Also, I could CC my 30 some. Not happening with the 21. I am seriously considering going with the 30 because the 29/30 is my favorite size Glocks. And the .45 is hurt less (IMO) with the short barrel due to it using mass more than FPS.
Any reason that you guys can think of to stay with the 21?

Meathead9

08-09-2012, 20:57

Capacity. Although I love my G30SF, I find it just as easy to conceal a 20/21SF. I think the full size is a much better platform for 10mm, so I'd stick with that. If I were you, I'd save my money and wait to buy a GEN 4 G20.

arushus

08-09-2012, 22:38

I think you made a wise choice in ammo, I carry underwood's 165gr gold dots also...

edporch

08-10-2012, 11:36

I think the Underwood ammo is the deal of the century. Great quality, you can get Gold Dots (like you pointed out). For carry, they make a Delta Elite load which is a little lighter load wise and may improve your follow up times some. I like heavier bullets, I load 180gr XTPs for my G20SF and G29SF.

Of course, like Meathead9 pointed out, you also have the Winchester Silver Tips, plenty for SD.

That may be, but it's no good to me if I can't actually buy it.
Checked out their website and nothing except 155gr HP is actually available.

WeeWilly

08-10-2012, 11:47

That may be, but it's no good to me if I can't actually buy it.
Checked out their website and nothing except 155gr HP is actually available.

I load my own 10mm for the most part, so I can't speak for general availability.

Everytime I have ordered ammo from Underwood, all their 10mm stuff and their 230gr .45Super, the longest I have had to wait was a couple of weeks.

I have read that Underwood runs calibers in batches, so at times they will be running short in a given bore. I don't know this as a fact, just what I have read.

All I can say is the ammo I have received from them is top quality, running at velocities as advertised, at prices that blow away a lot of other options.

Maybe give them a call and ask about availability for the round you desire?

edporch

08-10-2012, 12:09

Quote:
Originally Posted by edporch View Post
That may be, but it's no good to me if I can't actually buy it.
Checked out their website and nothing except 155gr HP is actually available.

I load my own 10mm for the most part, so I can't speak for general availability.

Everytime I have ordered ammo from Underwood, all their 10mm stuff and their 230gr .45Super, the longest I have had to wait was a couple of weeks.

I have read that Underwood runs calibers in batches, so at times they will be running short in a given bore. I don't know this as a fact, just what I have read.

All I can say is the ammo I have received from them is top quality, running at velocities as advertised, at prices that blow away a lot of other options.

Maybe give them a call and ask about availability for the round you desire?

Thanks for the reply.

The thing with me is, I don't care how great Underwood ammo is, if I'm unable to depend on it being in stock and I can simply order it and have it in a few days it's no good to me.

I'll consider it just another "vaporware" product like so many others in the gun world, that are really "wonderful" but when you have the money and want it, "well, we don't actually have it, but......". :supergrin:

I think I'll just continue to buy decent off the shelf stuff like 175gr Silvertips.

Then, like you get set up to reload my own.

CanyonMan

08-10-2012, 13:14

Thanks for all of your help guys.
I guess what I really want to know with question #1 is what most are carrying if you carry your 10mm as a CCW. Full house loads or lesser rounds. And why?
Anyone carry "roll your owns" for SD?

I've only carried the 10mm a few times for SD. I carried my own hand loads with 200gr XTP's and 10.5grs BD. I only go 'heavy for caliber,' whatever i use.

I EDC, "when i am in a town, or city a M1911 45acp." I carry my hand loads in it as well. 230gr XTP at 900 + fps even out of the little G36 when i decide to carry it.. Excellent Carry gun btw...

I got LEO"S and other's 'in law', in the family, and and have had. going way back since before I was born 61 years ago. This hand load 'myth' is rumor and internet nonsense that keeps the hands clean of these guys that 'write it all' for a living.

Google up, better yet, talk to judges, and "the right folks," and they will tell you as long as your justified it don't matter what you shot the dude with. Now folks can debate this all day, and I'm not going to with any one, but , those that feel the need, first find a really truly legitimate case with NO loop holes, or strange circumstances, just a real good shoot, that was justified, and the guy using hand loads, it will never have been an issue....

Well off the grandstand... haha.

So, any way, as some have told you, 'Silvertips' are plenty for sd in a 10mm for 2 legged stuff. I just prefer to carry my own, and a 'heavier bullet', and have more faith in them. When I hit something, 'no matter how', I have always wanted it to stay down ! ;)

Neither the 45acp or the 10mm or any other handgun is a death ray. I do prefer bigger heavier larger bullets with a hard hit, and deep penetration, to have all the advantage I can get. BECAUSE SD is 'not' target shooting, and things can go south, and it is possible to get a bad hit or two... It 'shouldn't happen' but can. The first shot is always the one that counts most ! ;)

At the end of the day amigo, it's all about you staying focused and doing what you do, as right as you can, until the threat is down.

Also, The 45acp WILL go through walls nicely. I 'assure you' amigo. You seemed to have concern about that in one of your post i think...

Don't get me wrong now. I think the 10mm is a fine SD carry gun, full size or compact, I can carry either with no problem. Don't get all caught up in thinking you need to find all the 'magic materials' for a SD senerio.. There 'are not any'. ha. Just get a 'heavy bullet', and focus, and place your shots well until the threat is down.

If the 10mm is what you shoot well, and stay on target with, and you are comfortable with it..... It is a very good SD gun amigo.

Good luck to ya, and stay safe out there !

CanyonMan

Wolf Spyder

08-11-2012, 01:22

CanyonMan, How ya do'n? I've been meaning to drop you a PM, but things have been busy... and now I'm typing on this really old crappy laptop in stead of my monsterous gaming computer...

You would be proud of me, I'm saving up for a 1911 build on a Caspian slide/frame. Granted it will be in 10mm and not .45, but it is a 1911 non-the-less. I am planning on fitting everything myself, except the ramped barrel and the slide to frame fit... I'm going to farm those out because I don't have a milling maching and I want the barrel done correctly by a pro. I have a whole laundry list of parts to buy from Wilson Combat before I start. But by the end of the year I might be carrying a 1911 some of the time and give my 10mm Glock 20 a rest.

This is a photoshopped mock-up of what I'm going for.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/LingerCustom10mm5inchReconCombatTactical.jpg

CanyonMan

08-11-2012, 09:42

CanyonMan, How ya do'n? I've been meaning to drop you a PM, but things have been busy... and now I'm typing on this really old crappy laptop in stead of my monsterous gaming computer...

You would be proud of me, I'm saving up for a 1911 build on a Caspian slide/frame. Granted it will be in 10mm and not .45, but it is a 1911 non-the-less. I am planning on fitting everything myself, except the ramped barrel and the slide to frame fit... I'm going to farm those out because I don't have a milling maching and I want the barrel done correctly by a pro. I have a whole laundry list of parts to buy from Wilson Combat before I start. But by the end of the year I might be carrying a 1911 some of the time and give my 10mm Glock 20 a rest.

This is a photoshopped mock-up of what I'm going for.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v378/Wolf_Spyder/LingerCustom10mm5inchReconCombatTactical.jpg

:dancing: Hey man, I am very proud of ya, and very happy for ya..

That is one good looking gun !

Man your starting out right, with the Caspian slide/frame, and Wilson parts list. I am impressed that you are "doing it yourself," that will make you gun all the sweeter when your done believe me ! Can't wait to see the finished job, but taking your time on it is a good idea, to get it just the way you want it. Also letting someone do the barrel to slide work is wise as well.

No matter 10m , 45, 38 super, who cares, man its a 1911 ! :thumbsup: I have wanted one in 10mm for a long time myself, but something else always seemed to catch my interest first. Maybe I 'll get you (now that you'll be an old pro) to build me one ! ;) Time ain't on my side these days. ha.

Is the barrel being done from scratch, or are you using a production barrel ??

We got a guy down here in Texas, Ken Crawley, that I have do my work like that as well, man he is good. I'd have everything screwed if I tried that, so I give the lathe work to him.

Well, you'll have an interesting rest of the year, and sounds like around Christmas end up with a great gift to yourself !

Way to go amigo... Yeh man, send me some PM's from time to time, and let me know how its going. I really do look forward to hearing from you and your progress ! ;)

I betcha that Glock will see less than you think, and sit in a pool of tears, once you fire off your first mag full from that master piece ! haha !

Man, I am looking forward to getting the first shooting session report from ya ! I know you'll do a great job, and that puppy will be your favorite gun. It is one thing to buy a gun, another thing to build your own. Something really special in that !

Good job amigo.
Take your time
Stay in touch !

CM

Ay Dios Mio

08-11-2012, 10:52

1) Above ammo good/not good/ really good/best for SD? Does anyone carry the "off the shelf" ammo for reasons such as the guy that got arrested for shooting another and his dog (in a park?) with a 10mm? If so, why not just carry a 27 as a CCW?
Whatever happened to that guy?

Google Harold Fish. This case always comes up as a cautionary tale for many reasons.

Teecher45

08-12-2012, 09:39

Google Harold Fish. This case always comes up as a cautionary tale for many reasons.
Thanks Ay Dios Mio, that's what I was looking for.