Fareed speaks with former U.S. Secretary of State Henry Kissinger about the current global order and the concept of American exceptionalism. Watch the full interview on "Fareed Zakaria GPS," this Sunday at 10 a.m. and 1 p.m. ET on CNN.

In reading your book, what is striking is you describe a world order, really the Westphalian world order, created after the religious wars in Europe that was conceived of and articulated and implemented by the West using Western values. And you point out that there is no such agreement now.The Chinese have their own conception of world order. The Islamic world has its own conception of the world order. Even the Indians have a very different conception.

So I read that part and I thought, my God, it’s going to be impossible to imagine any conceivable global world order, no matter how smart and engaged the U.S. president is or this is a structural shift that's taken place that is overwhelming.

No, it will be very difficult, but it has to begin by understanding what the differences are. And therefore, in stating one's objectives, one has a dual task and it's somewhat contradictory.

One has to be motivated by the values of our own society. And they are very inseparable from exceptionalism. But one has to understand that these are not self-evident somewhere else. And one has, therefore, to fit specific policies into a framework. That's very difficult. It's never…

Believe in yourself, but recognize the other guy believes in himself just as much?

At least to begin by understanding what he thinks and then to see whether one can find some common basis. Now, in the current world, there’s some common basis, at least for established government. One is the fear of nuclear war. The major powers, really, haven’t engaged in war against each other. There are questions of environment, of climate and of the structure of our societies. And one has to find a way of focusing attentions on some of the global problems and not be obsessed by the geopolitical balances that grow out of the Westphalian system. But the Westphalian system had at least this advantage, that non-interference in domestic affairs of others was one of its basic principles.

And we don't have that.

No, the opposite is being practiced.

Do you think the United States should stop interfering in the internal affairs of other countries?

The United States should make this distinction. Other countries should know that our conduct will be affected by the relationship to our values. But they should not feel that we are blackmailing them. So it's another one of these passages one has to find.

When you talk about the exceptionalism, it made me think about the criticism Obama got for saying I believe that America is exceptional, but I can imagine that the British believe they're exceptional, too, or the Greeks, I think he said, believe they're exceptional, too.

No, I think as a statement that is historically not inaccurate. But there is a difference to American exceptionalism in the sense that the basis of our society has always been that we, by our conduct, represent values that are of global significance. The British haven't thought that. Greeks haven't thought that. Because the people who came to this country lived in a continent which was separated from the rest of the world, so that they thought their performance was exemplary for the rest of the world. And in many ways, it was.

So American exceptionalism has a more missionary quality, which inherently, it's part of our foreign policy. But we cannot use it as a geopolitical weapon.

soundoff(184 Responses)

Ferhat Balkan

An interesting fact pointed out by LaBella above about most Americans watching Fox News... I find it amazing really. One can make a case that Fox News has to be the most ridiculously funny news network on TV. Some of the topics they talk about and the way they go about it is just so funny that Comedy Central can learn a few things from them. I mean really, it's like watching South Park. Here's just one example: Few days ago, they had a Texas sheriff from Midland county being interviewed about the ISIS threat from Mexico.. I mean REALLY?!?! Apparently they found some books along the border that looked like the Koran, so obviously ISIS is crossing the border.... If that's not funny, I don't know what is. The fear mongers in Washington have the public so riled up, that a tire blowout will make everyone scurry for cover.

Out of Control 800 lb Gorilla or “Bull in a China Shop”, take your pick .......... Ha! Ha! Ha! .......... and it's a purdy dumb Gorilla at that ......... swatting hoodlum mozzies in the desert, while Asia laughs all the way to the bank ........... Boink! Boink! Boink! ............ gotta get those mozzies for the next 100 centuries ............. Boink! Boink! Boink! ........ oooops, run outta cash long ago, never mind that ............... Boink! Boink! Boink! ............. oh crap, have no jobs cos’ all our jobs went to Asia, never mind that ............ Boink! Boink! Boink! ............ half the people in our country live in poverty, never mind that ............ Boink! Boink! Boink! .......... half our people are divorced (hurting their kids) and are on drugs (hurting their bodies), never mind that ............ Boink! Boink! Boink! ......... oh dear, our politicians and our government are completely controlled by our military industrial complex, never mind that (because that’s what created this 800 lb Gorilla in the first place remember???)………… Boink! Boink! Boink! .............omigosh, our kids are out of control spoiled brats getting poor grades in school and partying too much, never mind that………….. Boink! Boink! Boink! .................... Oh No! Global Warming is destroying our planet, and all we do is burn more fossil fuels every year, never mind that …............ Boink! Boink! Boink! ........... yikes, our infra-structure is falling apart and desperately needs repair/upgrades, never mind that ……………. Boink! Boink! Boink! ........... Jeeeeez, income inequality, failure to achieve universal healthcare, failure to provide adequate housing for all, homelessness, excessively expensive university tuition costs, declining employment opportunities, middle class wage stagnation etc. is bringing us down for sure, never mind all those things ………… BOINK! BOINK! BOINK! .............. Is this what we Americans have sunk to????? …………. All we know how to do is Bomb, Bomb, Bomb?????……….. Is this what America stands for now???????

Bombing is a good thing. Nothing wrong with that. The anti-war mongers have it all wrong.

September 16, 2014 at 5:00 am |

Joseph McCarthy

Good post George. I couldn't have said it better. Its these anti-war mongers that rile me up. They all outta pack up and go to the Middle East.

September 16, 2014 at 5:03 am |

God Bless Neil Young

Yeah, that freak from Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, had it right in many many of his songs................ God Bless him............ we looked upon him as a rather strange "freaky" kinda guy............ but you know.............. he was right about a lot of things.............

September 16, 2014 at 2:57 pm |

rupert

As much as I hate to admit it, Oh dear, what can the matter .........?, the answer to your final question is a resounding YES! This heinous policy of bombing people is a national disgrace!

Anyone with half a brain.would know that the answer to your question is yes, simply put. Then again, if our money was spent this way, the M.I.C. wouldn't be making money hand over fist and be in any position to buy off Senators, Congressmen and the White House!

September 16, 2014 at 2:05 am |

Joey Isotta-Fraschini

Sorry, I didn't post that stupid comment. Some clown is trying to make a fool out of me. Please just ignore him.

September 16, 2014 at 5:07 am |

Joey Isotta-Fraschini

Oh yes I did. I totally agree with simply put, no matter how many people here try to troll me. Murder is never a good thing and those who disagree with me have no knowledge of the horrors of war!

Contrare, Joey. The definition of the word Murder is "the taking of human life with malice aforethought". Like murdering people over things like middle eastern oil or Afghan pipeline control. Things like "preemptive warring" are in fact murderings, not simple killings as you claim.

Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Johnny's so long at the war...........
He promised to buy me a beautiful victory,
but instead, he just wasted all of our money....
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Johnny's so long at the war.........

Yes indeed, the global order is evolving...... past America....... while we are having this never ending mud-wrestling match with nutcase muslims, we remain stuck in the mud with them.......... while Asia evolves right past us...... 😦

We must continue to attack the enemy. There can be no stopping now. BOINK...BOINK..and bombs away!!! Go 800 lb gorilla. Take it to the enemy.
Wake up stupid Kerry. We are in a war with ISIS...
BOINK..BOINK...BOINK...

@ Oh, dear, etc:
You are correct in your advocacy of the bombing of Islamic State forces.
You are incorrect in referring to Kerry as stupid. We have done everything possible with diplomacy.
It is wonderful to watch President Obama's rising to the occasion when powerful military action must be taken. The President deserves the support of USA citizens in his ordering bombing.

Unfortunately, we haven't done "everything" Joey. There are many more ways to go about this other than air strikes which will likely drag us into another full blown war (with boots on the ground). One way would be the use of our intelligence agencies such as the CIA and NSA. The CIA could send covert agents to infiltrate ISIS and discover the whereabouts of al-Baghdadi. We can then make use of our special operations teams to go in and take him out. U see, unlike al-Qaeda, ISIS thrives on war profit & land occupation. Even more so, ISIS is controlled by one man who is strategic, cunning and charismatic. Take him out and ISIS will be easy pickings for the Iraqi army and peshmerga. This is what the CIA is for. Remember the cold war? During the cold war, infiltration agents were everywhere. Where is the CIA now? Unfortunately for us, the corrupt leaders in Washington seek only to fatten their pockets from taxpayer money given to them by the large war corporations.

September 16, 2014 at 1:15 pm |

thanks again, Ferhat

as always, Ferhat gently warns us of our own folly. but unfortunately, "group speak" or "mob mentality" does not listen to reason........ it is so easy to jump on the band wagon of "bomb bomb bomb".......... it takes much more wisdom and intelligence to think logically, listen to Ferhat, and choose a different path............. 😦

JIF, do you realize that we completely destroyed their country? between us and Bashar Assad, we have created these monsters? Them beheading 3 journalists is the LEAST they could do to try to get even......... what a silly man you are........ lost on your false world of "Bomb Bomb Bomb".......... while you relax in your Country Club, sipping expensive wine........ tell me, does Donald Trump attend the same club as you??????

Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Johnny's so long at the war...........
He promised to buy me a beautiful victory,
but instead, he just wasted all of our money.......
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Johnny's so long at the war.........

There will be peace in the valley??? really??? my dear Joey, that's exactly what the Roman Generals promised to the citizens of Rome, in 470 AD............. you know what happened in 476 AD, yes?????????

ON BUTTER
The government of the United States of America regrets that it cannot increase. The size of your free-lunch check this month because it must wage war to protect the lives of the taxpayers who provide you with your check. If we did not protect the taxpayers, your checks would stop coming.

Good for you, JIF. Those children should earn their keep by being the first to come to the aid of their country by volunteering to be beheaded on camera.
Teach those little hungry brats to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and earn their keep.

September 16, 2014 at 12:40 pm |

shame on you, Joey

Tsk, tsk, tsk......... shame on you, Joey........ for you to assume, that the intelligent, wise, peaceloving folk, within the US, who love America, and don't want to see it fail due to bad foreign policy decisions, are somehow poor, derelict, free-loaders, that are getting free paychecks from the government........... what audacity.......... what ignorance............. my dear JIF, KNOW THIS, many of us Americans that want our country to change its mistaken path of a never ending mud-wrestling match with nutcase muslims, are very successful Americans, with millions in their bank accounts, comfortably retired, and sickened, and sad, with our incessant warring............. we don;t get ONE PENNY for free from Uncle Sam......... and we are proud of it................ you ignoramus!!!!!!!!!!

At a better time in the USA's history, responsible citizens did not give birth to children that they could not reasonably expect to raise without financial assistance.
Now, birthing babies is a lucrative industry.
You may see that industry as an asset, I see it as a bad deal,

@ banasy,
That is how democracy works.
I let my desires be known.
You do the same.
Elected government officials hear and do whatever they do.
They may or may not be in office for the next term.
It is the best system yet devised.

Oh, JIF, if we always agreed, would there be any point in conversing with each other?
I disagree with my husband all the time. I don't love him any less.

September 16, 2014 at 1:43 pm |

Joey Isotta-Fraschini

Instead of merely throwing our taxpayer money to the DOD to finance all these useless and unnecessary wars, it would be far better spent in trying to find a cure for Ebola, ALS, Alzheimer's disease, and the list goes on....... Besides, why don't we just let our "allies" fight the ISIS for a change? What good is having allies in the first place if we have to fight all these wars for them?

Conventional war is useless against terrorists. We are no longer fighting a country or a government. We're fighting an idea. You cannot simply "destroy" that. It takes infiltration and surgical precision to deal with such threats. The war we wage right now only serves to destroy innocent lives and ends up being a recruitment propaganda for the enemy. Our government knows this, but they don't care, as long as their pockets are fed with taxpayer money from weapon manufacturers.

As always, I love the wisdom and knowledge within all of Ferhat's comments............ listen to what he is saying guys............ I mean, really really listen................... we Americans cannot fight an idea................ just like they could not destroy the American idea with the 911 attack............. Islam is an idea............. it is their idea.......... jjust becasue we have a clash of ideas, does not mean that we have to kill each other till the cows come home............ it means we have torespect each other, as being different, but yet capable of survival on planet earth........... and then explore possible ways in which we could cohabit this planet in peace and harmony.......... just like the muslims and christians did for over 100 years, in Spain, long ago..................

As always, I love the wisdom and knowledge within all of Ferhat's comments............ listen to what he is saying guys............ I mean, really really listen................... we Americans cannot fight an idea................ just like they could not destroy the American idea with the 911 attack............. Islam is an idea............. it is their idea.......... just because we have a clash of ideas, does not mean that we have to kill each other till the cows come home............ it means we have to respect each other, as being different, but yet capable of survival on planet earth........... and then explore possible ways in which we could cohabit this planet in peace and harmony.......... just like the muslims and christians did for over 100 years, in Spain, long ago..................

America = Out of Control 800 lb Gorilla or “Bull in a China Shop”, take your pick .......... Ha! Ha! Ha! .......... and it's a purdy dumb Gorilla at that ......... swatting hoodlum mozzies in the desert, while Asia laughs all the way to the bank ........... Boink! Boink! Boink! ............ gotta get those mozzies for the next 100 centuries ............. Boink! Boink! Boink! ........ oooops, run outta cash long ago, never mind that ............... Boink! Boink! Boink! ............. oh crap, have no jobs cos’ all our jobs went to Asia, never mind that ............ Boink! Boink! Boink! ............ half the people in our country live in poverty, never mind that ............ Boink! Boink! Boink! .......... half our people are divorced (hurting their kids) and are on drugs (hurting their bodies), never mind that ............ Boink! Boink! Boink! ......... oh dear, our politicians and our government are completely controlled by our military industrial complex, never mind that (because that’s what created this 800 lb Gorilla in the first place remember???)………… Boink! Boink! Boink! .............omigosh, our kids are out of control spoiled brats getting poor grades in school and partying too much, never mind that………….. Boink! Boink! Boink! .................... Oh No! Global Warming is destroying our planet, and all we do is burn more fossil fuels every year, never mind that …............ Boink! Boink! Boink! ........... yikes, our infra-structure is falling apart and desperately needs repair/upgrades, never mind that ……………. Boink! Boink! Boink! ........... Jeeeeez, income inequality, failure to achieve universal healthcare, failure to provide adequate housing for all, homelessness, excessively expensive university tuition costs, declining employment opportunities, middle class wage stagnation etc. is bringing us down for sure, never mind all those things ………… BOINK! BOINK! BOINK! .............. Is this what we Americans have sunk to????? ………….

Tsk, tsk, tsk......... shame on you, Joey........ for you to assume, that the intelligent, wise, peace loving folk, within the US, who love America, and don't want to see it fail due to bad foreign policy decisions, are somehow poor, derelict, free-loaders, that are getting free paychecks from the government........... what audacity.......... what ignorance............. my dear JIF, ................. know this................ many of us Americans that want our country to change its mistaken path of a never ending mud-wrestling match with nutcase muslims, are very successful Americans, with millions in their bank accounts, comfortably retired, and sickened, and sad, with our incessant warring............. we don't get ONE PENNY for free from Uncle Sam......... and we are proud of it................ you ignoramus!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, that freak from Sudbury, Ontario, Canada, had it right in many many of his songs................ God Bless him............ we looked upon him as a rather strange "freaky" kinda guy............ but you know.............. he was right about a lot of things.............

As always, I love the wisdom and knowledge within all of Ferhat's comments............ listen to what he is saying guys............ I mean, really really listen................... we Americans cannot fight an idea................ just like they could not destroy the American idea with the 911 attack............. Islam is an idea............. it is their idea.......... just because we have a clash of ideas, does not mean that we have to kill each other till the cows come home............ it means we have to respect each other, as being different, but yet capable of survival on planet earth........... and then explore possible ways in which we could cohabit this planet in peace and harmony.......... just like the muslims and christians did for over 100 years, in Spain, long ago................

Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Johnny's so long at the war...........
He promised to buy me a beautiful victory,
but instead, he just wasted all of our money.......
Oh dear, what can the matter be...
Johnny's so long at the war....................

maybe we should change their names to "Bomb Bomb Americans"??? That would certainly be a most appropriate way to describe Americans huh??? "Bomb Bomb Americans"......... wow.......... it even has that sicko "ring" to it......... 😦

CNN welcomes a lively and courteous discussion as long as you follow the Rules of Conduct set forth in our Terms of Service. Comments are not pre-screened before they post. You agree that anything you post may be used, along with your name and profile picture, in accordance with our Privacy Policy and the license you have granted pursuant to our Terms of Service.

About us

The Global Public Square is where you can make sense of the world every day with insights and explanations from CNN's Fareed Zakaria, leading journalists at CNN, and other international thinkers. Join GPS editor Jason Miks and get informed about global issues, exposed to unique stories, and engaged with diverse and original perspectives.