Is Doan ready to make a move?

The Canadiens — along with half the NHL — continue to have interest in Shane Doan, so let’s check in a week after our last Doan update to see what’s new — and a few things are new.

First, the Coyotes captain had been reluctant to fully explore his free agent options while former Sharks president Greg Jamison was pushing forward with plans to buy the team from the NHL.

Doan did meet with the Rangers and Flyers when he was on the East Coast earlier this month for CBA talks but, as Flyers GM Paul Holmgren revealed last week, “I don’t believe he is going to do anything until he has some answers in his mind as to what is happening there. I think he is a very loyal guy. He is loyal to (Coyotes GM) Don Maloney, and the Phoenix franchise. I give him kudos for that. We will see how it plays out. I think in the end he would rather be in Phoenix in a perfect world. It’s where his family has been raised. If he is ready to make a move, we have interest.”

Doan wasn’t getting any answers for a while. His agent Terry Bross said Jamison wasn’t being very communicative about his situation despite pledges Doan and Bross would be kept informed of Jamison’s situation. That supposedly changed this weekend when, according to Mike Sunnucks of The Phoenix Business Journal, Jamison and Doan got together on Friday night after an ultimatum from Doan and Bross.

The substance of those discussions have not become public but a few other related developments have.

The biggest development is that Jamison seems to not have sufficient money at the moment to buy the club. He’s reportedly $20 million short.

Sunnucks wrote late last week one of Jamison’s partners backed out of the deal and Sunnucks wrote on Saturday, “The Coyotes deal is on tenuous ice but could still happen, according to multiple sources familiar with the team’s three-year ownership saga and uncertain future in the Phoenix market. Jamison is courting new investors and partners to help him cobble together the money and financing needed to purchase the team from the National Hockey League.”

What this means for Doan is uncertain but if the sale to Jamison is delayed much longer, eventually, he’ll have to decide how much long he can tie himself to Phoenix.

That brings us to the second point: Where might Doan go? Lots of clubs want him but his visits with the Rangers and Flyers indicate that he was interested in seeing if there is a potential match with those clubs. Then this past week, TVA reported a source close to Doan said he would visit the Canadiens this week. If true, it would be an indication that Doan, who loved playing in Winnipeg, has interest in returning to play for a Canadian franchise.

The TVA report came out before Jamison finally spoke with Doan but there’s been no indication yet that this meeting with the Habs has been pushed back or cancelled. While other clubs have said they’d like Doan to visit them, there have been no other reports of him scheduling visits elsewhere, which doesn’t mean he hasn’t or won’t.

And this brings us to Point Three: What would it take to land Shane Doan? Doan made $4.55 last season with the Coyotes but John Gambadoroa, a radio reporter in Phoenix, tweeted earlier this month that one unnamed Eastern Conference team supposedly offered him a four-year, $30 million deal. That figure has been bandied about freely and seems to be rather high for Montreal or any team to pay Doan.

Yes, Alexander Semin got $7 million from Carolina last week, but that was for just one year and he’s 27. Doan will be 36 in October and while Doan at that age might be a better player to have in your dressing room than Semin at any age, the fact is that even the most productive older players don’t get that kind of money (see Adam Gretz’s CBS Sportsline very good blog post on Doan’s value for those figures).

Additionally, you have to keep in mind the CBA’s Over-35 Rule: If a team signs a multi-year deal with a player who will be 35 or older, starting in the second year of the contract, the full amount of that contract counts against the team’s salary cap regardless of whether the player is on the active roster or not. Putting aside for a second whatever changes may be made in the CBA going forward, this is a large number for an aging player that won’t go away even if Doan retires before the four years ends.

Nevertheless, that four-year, $30 million deal became the subject of lots of discussion last week, especially when TSN’s Aaron Ward tweeted “All indications Detroit #RedWings out of Shane Doan sweepstakes. Asking price too high.” No one from the Wings confirmed that, but most assumed GM Ken Holland would find better things to do with that money.

That was followed up with a story by David Shoalts of The Globe and Mail that reported, “A source familiar with Doan’s talks with other NHL teams said it is thought it will take a four-year contract worth a total of $30-million (all currency U.S.) to get him.”

But Shoalts was quick to add in the next paragraph that, “Terry Bross, Doan’s agent, said they have not made any specific demands although they are in possession of offers from six teams.”

Shoalts concluded that, “There are teams willing to pay Doan between $7-million and $7.5-million because of his leadership and two-way play but only for one or perhaps two years. However, the source said there will probably be at least one team willing to cough up that much for four years.”

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps Doan will be more interested in playing for a club where he feels comfortable than one that may be less to his liking but will throw a huge contract at him. In this very interesting off-season, we’ve already seen players decide to not take the biggest dollar amount on the table to play where they feel some sort of emotional attachment.

None of this is to suggest that Shane Doan is destined to wear bleu, blanc et rouge when the next NHL season starts. He’s got to decide to leave the Coyotes first, still no sure thing, and then he’d decide where he’d go, why he’d want to go there and for how much. Each team that interests Doan will have things in their favor.

Still, Doan’s interest in the Habs doesn’t seem as remote as some might have thought even a week ago.

I’m in the same boat, bought my ticket, but holding off on flights and hotel until puck drop. It shouldn’t be too hard to find a spot in October, it’s not like Grand Prix weekend or anything.

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

Count me as paddling that same boat also Twilight, have purchased my tickets to game but am holding off on booking hotel and travel until I know the season is starting.

As for list of HI/O posters, I think any list will always exclude too many. There are soo many really good people who post on this site. Whether it is the hockey knowledge they bring, the decency or whatever intangibles it takes to be a great 3rd line Poster! I cannot believe how much more i know about the Habs and Hockey in general since finding this site. Even more since I started throwing my two cents around thus intriguing me enough to go back and read previous days threads when I haven’t had time to get online.

Let’s hope season starts on time, look forward to meeting you Twilight. Have a good day sir.

for what its worth, I agree about Gio, he leads by example, plays 110% every night and puts up the numbers. Plus I think he would be a perfect mentor for Gallagher (when he makes the big team), much like Cole is to Patches. I hope he’s not traded either.
Thats my serious post for the night…

PS. that reputation is goin down the drain when you chug hotsauce… 😉

Occupation: Professional Hedonist… aiming low and exceeding expectations 😉
Hobo with a laptop in one hand hot sauce in another

Thought i heard about a potential game at the summit involving the summiteers,anybody verify this? I think it would be great to watch a game like the realists vs the rose coloured glasses or the halakians vs the pricebots.

I am sick and tired of all the talk of Trading Gionta, I for one stand fully behind our captain. It is not fair to judge him based on last seasons performance, where he played several games hurt, and was ultimately sidelined by season ending surgery. He is almost consistently knocked for his lack of size, I don’t know if any of you have ever seen a second of him play but he plays a lot bigger then 5,7 and is more physical then the likes of Bourque and Gomez.

Take this stat into account: in 2009-10 Gionta scored 28 goals, in 2010-11 he scored 29 goals, both seasons he was a +3. He accomplished this in his thirties, playing on an offensively inept and defensively porous team that featured (as we all know now) quite possibly the worst coach/GM tandem since the lockout. last year he was playing hurt, on a frankly pathetic team that was not clicking, probably tiring of his imbecile coach, borderline sociopath GM, and poor line-mates. That was not the Gionta we have grown to respect and appreciate, and it will not be the Gionta that we will hopefully see under new management and coaching.

The fact that he was named Captain of the team shows that he also brings leadership, and a steady veteran presence , something that would never be seen from the likes of AK, or Cammy.

The fact that the vultures, trolls, and bottom feeders of HIO have resorted to ganging up on Gio is just plain sad, he is not a mopey enigmatic dressing-room-toxin like Kovalev for example, or Cammy. He is not a waste of space/dog like Lats, Pouliot, or Gomez, nor is he a distracting late night hell-raiser like the departed AK, SK, Higgins, and Komisarek, or a younger Price and Georges.
What he is, is a hard working, talented forward, who give his all every night, who is a leader to the team and a positive, mature, steady example to our younger players. He is not a star, he will not score 80+ points, nor will he be the Rah-Rah type leader that we somehow expect every Captain to be, he is not perfect, he is human, he will not turn this team around on his own, but I would have him on my team any day over the likes of Gomez. Can you think of any other available NHL player who can replace Gionta’s leadership and secondary scoring? no one that would not cost us the farm.

Plus, it would look just plain bad to trade our Captain, as I recall, we had quite a problem with that at one time in the not-so-distant past.

Who was judging Gionta in a negative way? Mentioning a player in a trade rumour is usually a compliment because only a valuable player will get anything valuable in return. The Flyers didn’t trade Van Riemsdyk because he was a bad player.

If trading any player clearly improves the team as a whole, how is this bad?

I would only consider trading Gionta at the deadline if the Habs were out of it at that point. Teams would be allover him and we`d get a 1st rounder for starters and probably a good chunk more.

I`d constantly complain, like everyone else, that the Canadiens were too small and passive but I`d never consider Gionta to be a part of that problem. He`s a gamer and if surrounded by a couple of solid line mates he can easily score 25 plus this season.

Gionta is too small, and the team is not big enough to have a Gionta. We don’t play physical enough all game. Sure we come out swinging in the first period, but hey, we wear ourselves out trying prove our smurfs are not soft. Get bigger players so we dont’ have to prove we are a hockey team. Get bigger players….

While our conference division bulks up and gets tough, we sign one fighter cause Bourque is lazy and Emelin is a porcelain doll, so does that mean Gomez is gonna become our enforcer now?

The lineup still cannot compete all game. Sure we can skate fast for the first period and Price shines in the first period, but hey come the third period we give it all up and watch our mighty smurfs get the retalitory mighty midget penalties of hooking, slashing and all the nasty things midgets do when they get pissed off….only thing is it costs us games….

We’ll provide the means at the Summit. I’ve got a video camera, and I know a Hobo With A Laptop.

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

I don’t think we’ll be twenty games into the season by then, but maybe Ian can be inaugurated as the ‘Slapbet Commissioner’ and use his best judgment.

I think 500 ml of hot sauce would be an acceptable amount for everyone, wouldn’t it?

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

EasternOntarioHabsFan:
I am now officially rooting for Gomez to play 21 games and get 6 points… we got some Frank’s hot sauce waiting for ya…
Occupation: Professional Hedonist… aiming low and exceeding expectations 😉

The poster known as wjc has spent his whole time on this site trying to convince us all that Gomez is the man and that we should all cheer for him… and as it turns out.. all you gotta do is put up a bet where someone drinks hot sauce if Gomez succeeds and people instantly start cheering for Gomez LMAO

Love it!

“When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

For some real live hockey action today! Beaulieu and Galchenyuk worked out together on ice today, Beaulieu chirps that he has better hands and scored more. Now back to your regular boring life awaiting PK signing or any Hab news.

As to who Montreal could get back in a trade was the question I was asking in my original post. New Jersey are not going to give up a roster player if they are gunning for the cup again, but they might be willing to give up a prospect to win now. But I’m not familiar with New Jersey’s prospects. Anyone the Habs would be interested in?

All the nice looking girls at the bar have been taken so you start looking for the only passable one left despite the fact that she may not be at all what you were looking for when you went out earlier that evening. You know you’d be better off just leaving and waiting for a better opportunity to come along another day but you are desperate for something, anything, so you take a run at her and she accepts.

If we were to sign Shane Doan, in a couple weeks / months / years we’d wake up to the same feeling as the next day when rolling over to see a nice girl who looks like, well, Shane Doan.

I like everyone here, everyone’s on my list… Timo cracks me up, and I forget his name but he’s got Kirk Muller’s face as his picture, that dude’s cool. I consider Comm the shiznit cause I’m obsessed with prospects. UCE cool, but I’m lazy and he makes my head hurt with long posts ;p. I could go on…. but i’m lazy…

What happened to ‘Hobo With A Laptop’? I really liked that, thought it was kind of clever. I could go on and on and on about that sig and the significance and imagery of it, and segue into a critique of US gun laws in light of the Colorado shootings, double back to the importance popular media has on our collective psyche and compare it to the immediacy of the London Olympics which the average fan can because of Twitter and Deadspin et al consume without waiting for the time-delayed pre-digested NBC “America Rocks” version, and then tying everything up in a neat bow with a hilarious but obscure Simpsons reference, complete with video snippet, but I won’t, with due consideration to your fragile noggin.

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

Who needs the likes of Shane Doan when you have the glorious comeback of Scott Gomez to tantalize fans this season? He will be back in all his pulcritude to wow the whole League. Whatever the hell that means!

It’s a really safe bet, but I’ll copy this and tuck it away for safekeeping just in case. You set a really low bar. Could be fun.

Are we talking shot glass, juice glass, tavern tankard?…

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

Hola Amigos! Re Emelin. The kid will be really good if he keeps his edge. He was hitting like a Tank until that Malone crap and then he seemed to lose it. Too bad Staubitz was sitting on the bench because he would have dismantled that jerk. Oh yeah, Jan Bulis had a couple of good seasons down here with the Frontenacs.Ha-Ha! Kiss of death eh?

I think it was more a factor of the Habs being pretty much out of playoff contention at that point. The Malone thing happened on Feb 28th, and the game right after Emelin got 7 hits against Minnesota.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

I don’t think Emelin will fight at any time in the season because of the metal plates in his face from a fight in the KHL. I think it is a bit of a problem for Montreal because the word will be out on Emelin now that he won’t fight. The next time he throws a questionable hit, someone on the Habs will have to fight for him. The Habs currently have no defenseman to pair with Emelin who could fight someone like Malone.

I am also not a big fan of how Emelin turns his back in those situations because he is going to get caught with a sucker punch. If you watch the KHL fight in which he was originally hurt, he did not really defend himself then either. I would rather see him drop his gloves and tie up the other guy and wrestle him to the ground. Gill would do this often, just hold on to the other guy until he tired out.

I agree that Montreal could use another winger for the top six and that there doesn’t seem to be a suitable candidate from within the organization (yet). From where I stand I would rather have Kostitsyn for 1 yr at $2.5m than Doan for 4+ yrs at $6m+

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

I remember reading that the Habs offered Tendre Guidoune the same deal as Ottawa a few weeks ago. So the talk of filling a team with character guys seems to exclude AK, who was in this respect a quiet, neutral, yet productive player in Mtl, but it can encompass a player like LaTenderness who actually has been known to shoot his mouth, and is injury prone and/or has conditioning issues, and slow. It also seems to include a guy like Armstrong who may be gritty but has laid on quite a few dirty hits in his time. I cannot bring myself to believe this guy is really the solution for the third line. The move has insurance spelled all over it.
But sometimes the best moves are the ones you don´t end up making. If MB unearthes a good top six before october, which he may well be trying to do, all is forgiven.
I think the rejected Guidoune offer proves how haphazard the players teams land via free agency or even through trade is, as well as how politics, injuries and slumps can affect personnel.
Funny to think if Markov was healthy last year, we probably still have AK and Cammalleri. On the other PG would probably still be around and this would hurt in the long term.
We could look at it this way; PG actually got fair value for AK and Cam (especially taking into account the unloading of salary), even though the results may not be seen for years. We were actually able to learn that our GM was a bad GM with no people skills, though the moves he made in order to try and save his hide really could´ve been much worse. We were lucky to escape from him with relatively little damage. The Kaberle move is probably the one that can hurt us the most, and at least he can quarterback the second wave of the PP.
Who would give a second round pick for AK now? Who would take him now at his pereceived dollar value from 4 months ago? No one.
Though as I´ve said before, I think AK is being a victim of the Russian Stereotype, whcih holds that a skilled player who is a streaky player for some reason doesn´t care or doesn´t want to win.
I thought the article provoded a couple of days ago by one of our posters regarding Semin(either Commandant or Un Canadian Errant) was dead on; We as Canadians are becoming exceedingly moralistic about how we think the game should be played.

I just find it strange that he had the same deal and chose Ottawa. He strikes me as a fragile personality who perhaps cannot handle the pressure. He reportedly said “the next time i play for montreal i want it to be for a long time, not just a short contract” (i am paraphrasing. Excuse me but that comment just does not make any sense whatsoever to me. If he wants to stick in Mtl simply play like he is capable of and he will be rewarded. After all he is french canadian and if repatriated the team would be hard pressed to let him go again if he returns to form.

Aaron Portzline adapts Elliotte Friedman’s 30 Thoughts and gives us 61 Thoughts about Rick Nash. Good to see the dynamics of another organization, another perspective, and a good read on the player. Lots of the comments I’ve read on HIO gave an accurate account of a very talented player who may not relish a frontline leadership role in a ‘hockey market’, if we’re to believe Mr. Portzline, and who needed a change and external motivation.

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

I don’t understand the love affair with the PIM stat. Another poster was talking about Kent Huskins as not being the type of player the Habs needs because he had 10 PIM last year.

The last I checked, PIM’s meant your team was more likely to be on the penalty kill, short a man or two, and getting shelled with the puck… So… tell me again why a high PIM is something I should get off on?

Lack of PIM and a soft player are two different things. I would love to have every single one of my guys throw hits like Emelin… and I would love each of those guys to only take 10 PIM’s a year (minus the dude that fights… he gets a bit of pass in that regards).

PIMs is a horrible stat. The TSN guys love it one minute and then hate it the next….

players that play aggressive, hit, take hits, and still stay out of the box, are great players to have.
they are not easy to find. hate to always use the same guy, but it seems like whenever I need an example of a great defenceman I come back to Larry Robinson.
check out his penalty minutes.http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=4612
in 20 NHL seasons, Robinson went over 45 penalty minutes 3 times, his first 3 full seasons in the NHL.
once he got the hang of things, he went 17 consecutive seasons under 45 minutes in penalties.
considering how remarkably healthy and equally how much time on the ice Robinson played, and how aggressive he was, that penalty number is extremely efficient and disciplined.

that’s the key here.

we’re looking for controlled, or disciplined aggression from a defenseman.

I do understand that sometimes stuff gets a little crazy and somebody has to stand up for his teamates (which often results in penalties) and sometimes liberties must be repayed…. and sometimes the Zebras just make horrible calls.

More often than not, I prefer payback in the form of a bone crushing but perfectly legal hit.

I was part of the HIO Memorial Fantasy League last winter, hosted by ESPN, and one of the issues I had with it is that penalty minutes received by a player on your roster gave you points. So when a Bruin went on a thuggery spree, as Milan Lucic did in one game against my team, he racked up points even if the things he did were stupid and hurt Boston. I think it shows how much the NHL needs to point the ship in a different direction, and eventually retrain fans and the media that skill and goals are the important factors in hockey, not ‘toughness’ and violence.

———————————————————————–This isn’t “Billionaires vs. Millionaires.” Only a willfully uninformed fool would apply that sloppy shorthand designation to this disgraceful power grab crafted by some of the wealthiest individuals and corporate entities in North America aimed against professional athletes.–Larry Brooks of the New York Post

I thought part of MB’s interview process was him impressing the Molson’s with how much he knows about all of the player’s of the league. Why exactly do people think he needs a year to figure out what we have? He is supposed to know already.

Besides Doan, the only free agents left are from the scrap heap. Yes, it is possible to find something and shine it up from there. It’s unlikely to build a winner from there.

So far it seems like the same old same old crap. I guess MB seems cooler, was a player, people like him, and he has hired a bunch of French guys. Not sure what exactly he has accomplished? Timmins did the draft again, and we were lucky enough to get the player we wanted.

I think you are supposed to try and win the Stanley Cup, and it sure doesn’t look like we are doing that. Disappointing start. Hopefully I am wrong.

1) It feels like we are on the same road we were with Gauthier. I thought PG was fired, so that we would see change. I don’t see any changes.

2) It feels like we don’t have any pride. We don’t compete with the big boy teams for players. We are the 2nd highest grossing, 2nd highest valued, 2nd richest team in hockey … we don’t act like it.

3) Nothing has been done about the Scott Gomez situation. Now I understand that there is a new CBA being put in place, and that it makes sense to wait and see how to handle this. But all of the good highly desirable free agents have already been claimed. I believe we are allowed to be 10% over payroll for now while we see what comes about. If he is not interested in signing someone for a long term contract, then why not take a flyer on someone like Semin for $7 million for one year instead of having Gomez on your roster for another year. Hell throw $4.5 million at Jagr for a season, if you have it lying around why not spend it for the one darn season. Does it really matter if he is worth it, when we are just wasting that money?

3.2) Unless we miraculously land Doan, Gomez will be on the roster for another season. He has more than earned demotion to Hamilton. I can’t think of any other team carrying such an albatross on their team. Why are we not cutting out losses in this? He doesn’t offer toughness, skill, scoring, anything that I can think of except maybe a great sense of humor.

4) I guess I hoped they cared more about winning than it seems that they do. Whatever you think about Holmgren and Snider, they care about winning. They care more than if people like them, they care more than they worry about money, they are creative, and do whatever they can. I don’t care if Bryzgalov was a bust, at least they tried.

Sather makes mistakes, but he tries his butt and keeps shooting for home runs. Poile has huge cajones. Rutherford is willing to do what it takes to make it happen. Yzerman is proactive …

I have no idea what my GM does. He had some decent minor signings, and Timmins is good. Okay …

Save the capspace because even if its available this season (which it isn’t unless we dump Gomez), it won’t be next.
Pacioretty, Desharnais, White and Weber are all RFA’s who will make better money, and the UFA crop is FAR better with legitimately elite options. You don’t want to be stuck paying $7M for a 37 year old when a guy like Corey Perry could be available.

Spend the year developing the youth and maintaining good position to be able to make an impact next summer. The team as it stands now could easily find its way back into the playoffs if they can keep mainly healthy.

nothing in Mtl makes sense these days because of the air-heads running and owning the franchise. If we think Scarrie will do anything but continue his downward spiral to Suitcase journeyman status they do not watch the game. We still continue to build with hollow men like Lars “call me Jan Bulis” Eller – clowns like Gionta and his midget buds we are doomed. Please Mr. Molson sell the team to someone who cares. Get real execs not retreads who soul consideration is a low salary.

On one of the websites linked to from this site (I apologize for being unable to give proper credit to the ‘linker’) there was an article about an interview Torts (nyr) gave. He talked about Doan and losing to the Devils and the acquisition of Nash and which players were originally asked for.

Torts also was asked about losing Prust. Among the things he said was that he wondered about some of the promises made to Prust by Montreal’s management to get him to sign here. No need to wonder about contract terms.. they are public knowledge.

I wonder what he meant by ‘some of the promises’ and if one of them was that Prust would be elevated to minimum 3rd line duties and minutes … or maybe even 2nd line??

I think it just means about getting more minutes, 3rd line duties. Dudley mentioned it in an interview with some Toronto radio a few weeks back that was linked here. He said that the Habs see Prust as 3rd line guy that can play both LW, and RW.

Like Moen, Prust is a guy that can adjust to being put on any line, Moen did pretty well when he was on the 3rd line with Eller and Ak. It really depends on which Prust we get, last year Prust didn’t score much, but the year before he scored 13 goals. Ideally you would like to have a 4th line of Prust-White-Moen, but 1 on the 3rd line shouldn’t be an issue.

He went from 21 points in 36 games to 16 points in 56 games, which led to this :

On July 14, 2011, he was rewarded for his solid 2010-11 season with a two-year, one-way contract with the Ottawa Senators. However, Butler responded with a much poorer 2011-12 season than expected, registering only 6 goals and 16 points in 56 games. As a result, in July of 2012 the Senators placed Butler on waivers with the intent of buying out his contract.[4] On July 27, 2012, the Senators announced that his contract had been bought out, making Butler a free agent.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe it was basically either him or Daugavins for the Sens, the Sens re-signed Daugavins. Daugavins is better suited for a bottom 6 role, and Butler would have cost 1.2M next year, by buying him out, the sens only 400K for the next to years.

They were saying on the radio in Ottawa today that Butler showed up out of shape to training camp last year after giving him a contract, so the Sens were not very happy with him. Combine this with the resulting lack of production and the fact that the Sens needed to make room for Stone, Silfverberg, and Zibanejad in the top six. Butler is not a bottom six guy, so it was a no brainer move for Ottawa.

It always shocks me when NHL players show up out of shape in this day and age of personal trainers and knowledge of nutrition. This was a $800K mistake by Butler.

problem remains the Habs are cash strapped – the litmus test was the hiring of two third tier execs – based on salaries that are bargain basement and one can argue you get what you pay for – our new GM was an hyped upped usher with the Hawks and I understand the new coach was selling pencils on the street in Sherbrooke. It is time to deal with the “rot at the top” and get a passionate – knowing owner with real deep pockets not a beer baron scion with little cash to buy talent.

Really? You’re throwing judgments at our Management who have yet to complete their off-season moves let alone the Habs playing even one game?

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

the only thing i have been impressed with so far is MB strengthening the team organization structure. player wise, he’s retained the old squad and signed a 3rd line project in armstriong and overpaid big time for prust.

until this team drops gomez i can’t really say i feel the team is committed to winning.

I think he wants to get a good idea of what his assets are before he makes any huge decisions…but I wouldn’t be opposed to leaving the team as is and slowly integrating the youth in our system and accumulating draft picks.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Considering have seen totals as high as 430 not sure of the variance except we would have been hit with some for AHL players injured during training camp like Nash, Bishop, Delmas and seem to remember another (Conboy?) went LTIR after that.

Agree, but still not enough to be a lock for the playoffs, I think you still need a legit top 6 forward, to play with Plek and Gionta (Bourque with Eller), and another top 4 d-men, we only have 3 top 4 d-men in Markov,Gorges, Subban, Emelin not ready IMO.

Emelin is a perfect #5 D. I’m fine with him in the top 4 when injuries (see above) occur. But if Emelin is our #4, then when Gorges, Markov or PK get hurt, suddenly we have a second pairing of Emelin/Kaberle/Boullion/Diaz/Weber and that’s a recipe for disaster. I’m really disappointed MB didn’t land Bryan Allen or similar because that would have made the situation much more workable. Plus it would have taken some pressure off Tinordi/Beaulieu/Ellis. Now it feels like everyone is standing around waiting for them to become ready.

This is one of those times that statistics are misleading. When you see so many injured players you think immediately wow.. if we had them all healthy.

But of the list Moen,Markov,Gionta are the only three with lengthy injuries that could be said to be an integral part of the team.

White is still unproven. All the other injuries were short in duration or were suffered by marginal players.

Actually even Moen would have been hard pressed if totally heathy to maintain his pace and Gionta wasnt working on a stellar record either.

The HABS finished where they did because of weaknesses in their team and maybe overall team chemistry (as we later learnt from Gill’s remarks). MB has addressed some but not all.
And not the least of the question mark is the approach of the new coach, as it was with the old coaches.

Thanks for the details. I think it says it all. Just by looking at this i think it is obvious why we did not make it. What is not written in your comment is that every other player that took their place had to play a different role than what they were initially hired for .

It also helped us to see that the AHL guys were not up to par to raise the level of the team`s effort. I do understand that they did their best but still it was not enough for me to consider them as our future.

I must add to be totally fair that we were out of it from the start of the season even if already we had a few injured players. I felt that the pre-season calendar was inappropriate. Too much time for the youngsters not enough for the veterans .

I too think that if we are a bit luckier on the injury side and if the underacheivers raise their game one notch we should also reach a new plateau wich are the playoffs. Then anything is possible but let`s not forget that we are now looking long term with promising youngsters.

Funny how nobody realizes that Doan would be our next Gomez. Too old ,too expensive ,why did we sign that washed up player , send him to the minors,buy him out and so on and so on. So obvious.

Why then would we even consider signing him when we all know that he will not make a difference next year ? This team needs more than one player and is aiming long term with youngsters. In a year or two i would have taken the chance maybe but not at 7 mil a year. Certainly not for 4 years at any price.

Oh, some of us realize what you are saying. Just not sure we are in the majority. We have railed about Gomez contract forever, about how short sighted management was and here we are again. Most want to make the playoffs at any cost I would guess.

After reading your post and those of habs03 and ont fan, it is no longer just you Justme. You three guys have convinced me. I take back my post re it wouldnt be too bad if we did sign Doan for a ‘reasonable amt at max 2 yrs’ and traded Gionta to NJD.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

My first thought when I heard he was available, and before I saw any of the numbers being dicussed, was 2 years at 3.5 or 4 mill. Probably shows why I’m not a player agent or GM somewhere. I would simply have a hard time giving such a big raise to a player who clearly is at the age of diminishing returns. He’d be a very useful addition, but only if it’s at a fair price.

And of course that’s before even considering the cap or PK’s impending contract.

Another of the “lose to win perhaps someday” crowd?
Less people post here and that began a couple of seasons ago. The constant “I know better than anyone, including people who make their living in the NHL and I’m just observing from the sidelines here” type of comment drove them away. The important “IGNORE OPTION” has never come to pass on this site.
Fans of the lose to win option have had their day. It is over. Time to get back to winning hockey.

Comments like yours are why numbers have been dropping for the last 7 months. Have you noticed that “Google Analytics” chart has disappeared since “fans” like HH and others of his ilk overrun the site like a plague of morons who believe their opinions actually matter to the real NHL?

It just goes to show how disconnected from reality you are. Google Analytics are like fair weather fans, they shift with the tides like do with the wins and losses. We’re at an ebb now. The flow will return. I will be here for both because I, unlike those who hop on and off the bandwagon, am a true Habs fan to the marrow. And I am bad to the bone. Unlike you, who needs a hug.

EDIT: No, no HabFab. I am the root cause of all that is good or bad with the Habs and HIO. I am the one who drives the stats here. Me. Myself. I. Moi. Je. HH.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

there was a HUGE reason why Semin took so long to get signed, his attitude and lack of performance in the second half when the team truly needs him. Waste of ice time and money in my opinion. If the habs wanted a one year guy who could just help them bridge they would have went after Jagr.

Doan at any more than 3 years is a huge risk and wouldn’t be worth it. If at reasonable cash for 3 years could be a nice addition

Yes none would be preferable, but given the choice between 2 brutal contracts, i’m taking the shorter term one.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

You have to be Scott Gomez posting on this site. No one could like Scott Gomez as much as you do otherwise.

We love you as a person Scott, you have earned your way out of the league with your play. The good news is you still collect your 10-11 million in pay for the next two years regardless. Congratulations! You are doing better than I am for sure.

The better news may be that nothing MB has done so far convinces me he has the cojones to send you down anyway.

A lot of talk saying Doan would become a less productive player in 4 years… Of course he will. But he will make the team better over the next two or three seasons. Watching him in the playoffs, he is exactly what the Canadiens need. A skilled, hard-working, big player with a bit of a nasty streak. 25th in hits last year, just ahead of Lucic… Can someone tell me what’s not to like about what he would bring to the team immediately next season?

Will he cost more money than he is worth? Yes, he’s a UFA. That’s the game.

I don’t mind Doan for a year or even 2 years… but this team is rebuilding and not ready for a cup run. Realistically our window on that starts to open in years 3 and 4 if all goes well in developping Galchenyuk, Tinordi, Beaulieu and continued improvements in Max, PK, Price, Eller, Leblanc, etc…..

You don’t want to handcuff your cap situation in those years with a 38-39 year old forward whose skills might decline.

If he was gonna make us a cup contender now, I’d consider mortgaging the future, but not in our situation.

No ones doubting the intangibles that he brings, but if his point production start slipping you are essentially paying top dollar for 3rd/4th line production…then he becomes a hindrance because his cap can’t be moved and you have trouble signing your youth players. THE FUTURE. This is the type of move the Maple Leafs make, I would rather the team become a CONTENDER, not a flash in the pan.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

the Habs right now once PK is signed have a good enough team to squeeze into the playoffs. but because we have a few injury prone players I’m not so sure. so over paying to get a player is not the answer. I say wait till training camp and go with whatever works.
don’t waste money and don’t give away our future.

Doan’s an unrestricted free agent. If he’s signed, we don’t touch the lineup. It may be harder to offer big contracts to young players down the road, but trades can be made, etc when that bridge is crossed.

Finally someone with some sense. We still have to sign Patches, DD, Beaulieu and Tinordi, who in all likelihood will become the core of this Habs team. On a 4 year term you handcuff the team.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Doan’s agent has to be realistic regarding the $,the amount of years, and Doan’s age. Really, we’re going to offer a 36 year old 7mil/yr? A) He’s not Sidney Crosby material, B) He’s had his best years already.

Nothing to do with realistic. Its all about supply and demand. If somebody was willing to pay 30 for 4 years somebody he wants to go to will match. The only question is what does Doan want, Money or a team he really wants to go to. I’m willing to bet he may be considering playing with a cousin on a team that could very will be very competitive with him on it. My quetion is how do they fit him into the salary puzzle.

It might, I am just asking. I am not that close to any cousins with that big of an age gap, but I could definitely be wrong. Actually I hope I am wrong, and this works in our favor. In the end though it will still cost $30,000,000 regardless.

NHL general managers are their own worst enemies if they are truly prepared to give players like Doan 7 mil per. He is a valuable player on many level but not at the price tag. But, since it’s not my money they are spending, I say, Molson should stop being such a cheap sh!t, and eat Gomer’s salary and get Doan. There is 14 mil well spent.

Only the term would be 4 years. You pay 7.5 mil on a guy who in all likelihood will have Gomez production nearing the end of his contract without the possibility of moving him…I don’t understand how people can’t see this. Do you guys honestly believe he’s going to put up 50 points a year for the remainder of his contract on a last place team?

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

You have to think of the Cap and then re-signing players like Patches and DD. Unlike Gomez you would have no option of burying that cap money either…it makes no sense. Even at 40 points production you’ve essentially made your team worse by paying 7.5 mil for 3rd/4th line production.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

You don’t buy things planning on them to suck or not work. You buy the best thing available. You don’t sign a player already planning on burying him. You sign the best player available. Why would you sign less than the best player available? Why can’t you see this?

You don’t sign a 36 year old for four years without factoring in the fact that due to age his skills are likely to decline. Sure there are exceptions in Whitney, Jagr, but they are the extremely rare exception.

This is the same thinking that got us Gomez in the first place…us THINKING that he could produce the same or better. It’s even less realistic for a 36 year old player. On a 2 year term maybe, but 4 years? no way in hell. That will cost you more than money, that will cost you signing Beaulieu, Tinordi, Patches or DD

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

@Kfourn
Whatever “us” was thinking, “us” wasn’t the ones that actually signed Gomer. Don’t get me wrong. I am not saying that paying Doan 7 mil/per is ridiculous. But it is less ridiculous that paying that money to Gomez and since we don’t seem to be going for guys like Bobby Ryan or Rick Nash (too late) I am all for Molson spending more of his cash to land a player that will add some NAG to the lineup.

But that’s exactly it. you ‘throw’ money at a 36 year old for 4 years with declining production, the contract becomes worse than Gomez’s contract. You can’t even bury this one.

Mark my Words, the team that decides to do it is going to be kicking themselves after the second year (Kinda like MTL was with the Gomez contract).

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Code words – When a professional athlete says they will ‘choose the best place for them and their family’, it pretty much means ‘I will go to the place that offers me the most money’. There are some minor caveats to that, and there are loyal players whose families might demand from them to stay in a place they are comfortable.

When Brian Gionta got offered big money, even Lou told him to take it. Screw it, NHL careers are short. Take the money! It makes sense, and everyone of us would do it too. you can’t say it, because it sounds bad and greedy. It’s what they mean though.

It appears that Shane Doan is not sure what he wants. If he wants to remain a Phoenix Coyote, then by all means do so. No matter what might happen to the franchise. I doubt that they would give him 7.5 million a year for the next four years, though. If he really would like to become a player on a potential Stanley Cup winning team, then say so and lower your salary demand. Stop beating around the bush. Raymond Bourque comes to mind.

Richard R
Price is an oyster. Unfortunately not all oysters produce pearls.

Doan fits with the direction the Canadiens are going. Size, grit, better leadership… It’s harder to float on the ice with guys like him in the room. Make some cap space and try to sign him.
In 4 years, the younger players (Galchenyuk, Beaulieu and Tinordi for example) who have benefitted from some of the older players’ example (Gionta, Bouillon included with Doan) will be ready to play major roles on the team. Signing him would make the team very competitive immediately, and allow younger players the time to develop as part of a winning team.

Doan is not worth what he is reportedly asking for. two years at 4.5 each (more or less) is fine, otherwise there is no reason to get a guy like that unless your team is a real cup contender. Doan will not make a team like the habs into a significantly better team, he is a good character guy but his numbers aren’t anything special.

I do disagree that Doan wouldn’t make our significantly better. There is a reason why there are so many teams after Doan. He is physical, reliable defensively and can score 20 plus goals a season while not taking shifts off. He is a strong leader and plays like it.

You put him in our top six and we have more grit and scoring, consistency and balance. Consistency and balance have been lacking on Habs roster for quite a few years now and this would help. The habs would be much tougher to play against which will be key in the east.

I don’t think he will sign here and I do agree the money is a little crazy but Doan is a good hockey player

1. Doan hasn’t asked for any number, and neither has his agent. The numbers being thrown around are media speculation.

2. “Doan will not make a team like the habs into a significantly better better team”. Did you not watch him in the playoffs? The guy is an effing warrior, he would INSTANTLY make us better because he’ll make the guys around him better. Do you think Doan would put up with Gomez’s lazy ass for one second?

Shane Doan. 2 years @ 4.5 million per. Take it or leave it. Ciao baby. Nice not knowing you.

I know it is still early in the new regime and it will take a few years to assess how things will pan out but it is still very refreshing to get the impression that this Habs management team is not hell-bent and intent on throwing away more prospects on ageing veterans on the downsides of their careers.

It will still take 2 years to wash away the stain of the Gomez and Kaberle contracts. It could take a while longer to wash away the bad taste for having traded away McDonagh.

I’ll take winning over Patience any day of the week, and twice on Saturday Night.

Notes:
-They give away the Stanley Cup for the Champions of the NHL every season. With the whole idea being every team trying to win it. It sucks to be the fan of a team who has decided ahead of time that they aren’t good enough to win it before the season starts. Especially for the Montreal Canadiens who are built on the will and determination in the eyes of Maurice Richard with a will to win each and every season.

You can have all the will in the world but if you don’t have the talent to back it up you’re no further ahead…and if you start trading away your future for quick fixes you become the Maple Leafs.

I’ll take a few years of patience over a lifetime of not winning the Cup thank you.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

When you still have to sign players like Patches and DD next year you’re handcuffing yourself with large contracts for aging players. Go with the youth and have patience.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

And if Doan starts slipping in his aging years and becomes a 40 point player, what then? We get the pitchforks out and demand that he too be buried in Hamilton…only this time his salary would still count against the cap, there’s no way of shielding ourselves if his production declines, and there’s nothing to say he will have better numbers on a team that finished last in the East….In a way you’d be even more handcuffed by his contract than the Gomez contract.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Doan as a 40 pt player is an effing warrior (as stated above). He still hits, he still gives us defence, he still brings it. He is not useless if he doesn’t score. That’s why size and grit matters. It’s not the only thing, but it matters. Whereas a Mike Cammelleri (whom I love), is worthless if he isn’t scoring. Gomez is just worthless period, he has it in his head he can’t score before the game starts (and I still like him as a person)

So essentially you’d be paying 7.5 mil for another 3rd/4th liner with no option to move him and for 4 years? Pass.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

I have seen him play and as you say he plays with grit, but at 40 points you are getting 3rd/4th line production…therefore you would be paying a gritty 3rd/4th liner 7.5 mil over 4 years with no option to move him….why do you think he is going to make a huge difference to the Habs?….why not spend that money on signing our youth?

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Since when have the Habs won anything of note? All I see is dismal middle of the pack finishes with weak and battered teams. Teams barely capable of putting together one top line let alone get any kind of sustained secondary or tertiary scoring.

No way the Habs are going back to their mediocre ways of just being content with making the play-offs. Not on my watch.

You underestimate the power of words. Once planted like a seed it grows. It isn’t pretentiousness nor is it megalomania.

A few years ago Habs fans would have collectively writhed in pain at the thought of finishing near the bottom of the pack. Now many fans are even willing to go sit through another Tanked™ season if it means higher draft picks.

Don’t discount the power of thought provoking ideas. You might even one day be capable of conjuring them.

This is an overly-simplistic and short-sighted way of looking at things. To win it all in the NHL requires a lot more strategy and planning than that. For starters, it’s not just about winning it once, it’s about building a contender that has the potential to win every year. A lot of pieces need to be in place for that to happen, and with a salary cap, it even more difficult.

Because there are no ‘Superstar’ player garage sales. You want a Superstar, you gotta pay for one and there are none available in the UFA market…so you’d have to trade for one which will cost a whole lot of your youth. Why not develop a few instead of trading your future away for one?

That is short sighted thinking.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

I didn’t mention anything about Gomez. I just pointed out that your way of looking at winning and what it takes to win in the NHL was simplistic, and quite frankly, wrong. Gomez was a mistake – plain and simple. Losing McDonagh for Gomez was an even bigger mistake.

If we could get Doan for 2 years at 4mil each year and still have enough to sign P.K. this summer and Max and DD next summer then I’d have no problem with it. The problem is we don’t, and even if we were to send Gomez to Hamilton and clear his cap space, we’d still have a hard time fitting all those guys in paying Doan what he is *apparently* looking for.

Just cuz Doan is better than Gomez doesn’t mean we should get him, and he sure as hell isn’t worth anything close to 7.5mil, especially considering he’ll be 36 in October. I will laugh at any team who signs him for more than 4.5mil and for longer than 2 years. He’s a good player, but he’s not a star player (never was) in his prime and that’s what 7.5mil should get you.

Wait a minute… Gomez what “he has earned it…” ? Ha Ha that is the funniest thing I have ever heard. Getting a contract does mean you have earned it. Its not a bonus. He may have been given on the contract on past expectations, but you can’t actually believe he has ever lived up to a $7 million dollar level player. This is a business, and it is costing us money, CAP money that could be better spent elsewhere on his Roster spot. I don’t think the NY Rangers are feeling too bad about burying Redden to have that money spent on there younger defense. People argue this is classless, but their are very few believe the Rangers are classless, its busniess. Gomez will still gets his money in the AHL

I simply don’t understand all of the people with different, shorter, and lower offers??? The bar has been set, you either offer him $30 million for 4 years, or you don’t and walk away.

He isn’t going to accept 1, 2 or 3 years.
He won’t accept anything short of 7.5 million per.

That is where the bar is set. It’s like saying I am going to win the Olympic gold with a jump of 4.5 meters, when someone else has already jumped 7.5 meters.
You are wasting your time and ours reading if you start out with anything other than ‘No, I wouldn’t offer him $30/4yr’ or ‘Yes, I would offer him $30/4yr’

I think at this point in his career he’ll choose the best place for him and his family before he takes the best money offer.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

His agent has said that he wants Phoenix, otherwise he will take the money and term. I think every one of the NHL cities have wonderful pockets that would be accessible to someone with that much money. They would have great schools, great athletic programs, great houses, etc … I mean Detroit is about as bad as a city gets in North America, and they land free agents often.

But he has said himself that he will choose the best place for himself and his family if Phoenix doesn’t pan out. I’m confused where are you getting your info….I got mine from TSN.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

“If an NHL team wants a shot at landing Shane Doan, it’s going to be quite costly. The Globe and Mail reported on Friday that the unrestricted free agent forward is looking for a four-year, $30 million contract if he leave the Phoenix Coyotes – the only franchise he’s ever played for. ”

Either way if true, that is way too much for the Habs to pay for an aging player.

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Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

myself I’d offer Doan a two year deal for 15mil. I would explain to him after that some or all of our big contracts should be off the books. if he’s still producing. give him another two year deal for 15mil or trade him to a team of his choice. I think that’s a fair way of doing it….

i think we all know 4 for 4 is not enough and 6 for 6 is too much – having said that as trinifan wrote, offer sheets do not need to be disclosed – only if they are signed (at least that’s what i think) … in fact maybe the pk camp uses an unsigned offer sheet to prove his worth to the habs.

in any case – i hope the habs get him signed and locked up for a few years

The habs have the revenue streams, and the players coming off their cap in the near future (Gomez, Kaberle, Markov, Gionta contracts all end in 2 years), to match any offer and then retaliate with a similar offer to that team’s key RFAs.

It is not a strategy that makes sense.

As I said in the article I wrote on the history of offer sheets. Historically the offer sheet happens in one of 2 scenarios.

1) a team is vulnerable, either you heavily front load the offer to hurt the recieving team’s ability to match as they are small market… or B you put a big cap hit on a player with a team who doesn’t have cap space.

2) Retaliation after someone messed with your players.

Thats it… those are the two reaasons the offer sheet is used. PK doesn’t fit into situation 1, the Habs have cash and cap space. Situation 2 is the reason you don’t mess with PK, you don’t want retaliation from a big market squad like Montreal.

Agree but I don’t think the Habs will send Gomez to the AHL. They’ll give him an option 1) retire 2) buy him out 3) Send him to a team with a lower cap issue like the Preds who are now 15 mil under the minimum cap with not tons of available FA’s who will be willing to go there to fill that gap for a season or 2 and Gomez could fit that bill.

I am not siding with team or player here but I wish that P.K. Subban would have been signed already. Mainly because it would allowed MB to address the one glaring need that he hasnt yet. That of a big reliable D.

Is it a fair question to raise? Whether MB’s early concentrationon on some of the minor signings like Diaz, Geoffrion, Palushaj was to the detriment of his ability to continue with a comprehensive plan to improve the team in key areas. I think obtaining Prust and Armstrong were early indications that MB had a plan and was following it. Things seemed to have stalled.

It would definitely seem for instance, that he had ‘concentrated’ on Price by protecting him with a premptive offer. I understand that P.K’s situation was different. But it seemed that the signing of a player like Diaz could have been delayed even at the risk of losing him.Why were substantive moves left as late as we now know they were re P.K Subban.

In the meanwhile the landscape has changed. Players like P.K are ‘on paper’ more valuable now than even a month ago. And MB has a very small amount of money left which definitely hampers him going out and acquiring that D even for a small price.

If MB were to spend say 1.5 to 2mill on a player now, it would have a ripple effect way beyond its nominal value. It could be interpreted by P.K.s camp as Mtl cant any longer pay him close to what he thinks he’s worth. It could send a message to other teams that they could now dare an offer sheet to P.K.

I think things have stalled while MB holds his 6mill plus cap dollars.

While on the topic. Am I wrong in wondering why a player like St. Louis defenceman Kent Huskins hasn’t been snapped up by some GM for max 2 mill. I keep looking at his stats and hoping to hell that MB can grab him. It would be better spending money there than on Doan. In fact if MB signs Doan for anywhere near his supposed market value, it would definitely send a ripple Subban’s way.

PK is in the same position Price was in 2 seasons ago. PK, right now, does not have the leverage to demand too much. If you remember, Price signed just before training camp. However, locking him up for a 2 to 3 year term before he starts making the new Price-type salary is in the interest of Habs management.

Habs had to wait on Don Meehan’s availability. He is the busiest agent in the league.
Huskins’ 10 mins of penalty time in 25 games kind of shows he doesn’t play with the edge the Habs (as far as we can see, anyways) need.

Or maybe that low penalty total matched with his consistently positive plus-minus stat could indicate that he is exactly what we need. A defenseman who keeps goals down and would help stop all those 3rd period losses. He ‘clears the crease’ without being penalized.

Isn’t it possible that the Habs have looked into Huskins’ availability and for any number of reasons the deal is not going forward?

Maybe Huskins doesn’t want to move to Montreal, for whatever reason.

Maybe Huskins is asking money or term that does not meet the Habs budget.

re Subban:

The 2 sides are not yet meeting in the middle and that is quite normal for a RFA situation, where the player has no real leverage.

it will get done when it is ready to be done.

The Habs would have liked to sign Subban weeks ago, I’m sure, but Subban has his ideas and his needs, and the 2 sides need to agree on term and money.

Subban will not sign an offer sheet because he likes playing in Montreal. Rival teams call with offer sheets, but the player has to choose to sign it, meaning he is ready to move to another team.

on Doan: the Habs are interested but, like every team, they need to establish their own specific terms. In our case it will be a 2 or 3 year offer, probably around 5.5 million or so. That will not be good enough, apparently, and its very likely Doan will stay in Phoenix any way. So although Doan is an excellent catch for us on our terms, we are not likely to sign him.

There’s no ripple on Subban because of Doan. There is a ripple on Gomez because of Doan. If we sign Doan, we will absolutely unload Gomez.

Those are my opinions. I may be right. But I have been wrong many times before, so don’t bet your house on what I have to say!!

PK to me is such a non issue. It wasn’t until 3 weeks ago he meet with Meehan and his Dad to talk strategy. And last week Meehan was finally supposed to talk to Bergevin, so we have not even had a week of negotiations.
Doan’s price and term is too high for his age. IMO AK would be a better deal then going that route.
As for a veteran physical D, they picked Bouillon which I’m not convinced was a smart move.

The error we are all making when evaluating the team either in defense or offense is that we only have last year to work with.
Let`s not forget all the injuries cause it did more than remove a player from the squad it also forced number 3 to be number 2 ,number 2 to become number 1 and so on.

If everybody plays his role correctly and does not have to overdo it then we will have a better picture.

Furthermore concerning the D , when the offense underachieves it puts more pressure on your ability to not give any goals.

I think we should keep our eyes open for outside help but as is the case for almost every player on the roster we should give them the chance to prove their worth and decide after mid season if adjustments are needed.

“Shoalts concluded that, “There are teams willing to pay Doan between $7-million and $7.5-million because of his leadership and two-way play but only for one or perhaps two years. However, the source said there will probably be at least one team willing to cough up that much for four years.” ”

I wonder which team offered 4 years, and even if it’s true? If Doan is not interested in going to that team, then his market value comes back down to $7M for 1-2 years, which is more sensible on term, although still overpaid. He looked like he has a couple of years left in the tank in the playoffs this year.

If the Habs sign him, I can see Gionta traded back to New Jersey to make room on the roster and on the cap. New Jersey have most of their core hitting unrestricted free agency next year (Elias, Zubrus, Zajac, Clarkson, Zidlicky), so their window to win is this season before they have to rebuild again. They really need to replace Parise, so Gionta would be a pretty good fit. The interesting question is who does New jersey have that would interest the Habs?

Have to suspect that the 4 year 30 mil offer for Doan is his or his agent’s way of saying, “Wait until I decide to move.” This way, he buys time for his first choice: remaining in Phoenix.
The term is too long and the price tag is too high.

4 years $30 million is reportedly the offer that Doan has sitting on the table from one NHL team. He never asked for that but it was offered to him. if that is true then that is his market value. I agree it is very high especially for the final 2 years, but anytime you want to sign a premium free agent you have to overpay! If the new CBA keeps the CAP around $65 million or more then I would be tempted to sign Doan. However, if it ends up closer to $60M then we can’t justify it. Unless of course Pierre Gauthier or Bob Gainey want to trade for Kaberle, Gomez or Bourque!

The part I disagree most with is Doan being a “premium” free agent. A player who will be 36 when the season starts (assuming it starts on time) who has had a Good, not Great, career is NOT a premium free agent.

I agree with you. The speculated salary/terms for Doan is way beyond what his career could justify. But he is playing in a hot market now, especially after Parise, Suter, Webber.

Doan and his agents would be smart to sign ASAP before more GM’s become like Detroit’s executives and start seriously examining his real worth, which is still considerable but not at the level of the terms being reported.

Absolutely Trini. I look at all this sudden interest in Doan as a “flavour of the week” scenario. The guy’s been in the league forever and all of a sudden he’s the second coming and half the league wants him?

2 years at 4mil per season is more than plenty for a 36 year old who has had his share of sub-par seasons. Our team is not lacking in leadership. Gio, Marky, Josh, Cole, Frankie, Pleky provide lots of that, and apparently so does Gomez.

I think Doan is worth about the same as Erik Cole. 4.5 million per year, on a career ending 4 year contract. Plus a signing bonus of about 1 million per year for leaving the team he played with his entire career.

“This Team is Less than the sum of it’s parts while Gomez is one of those parts.”

Doan’s always been a healthy player. Don’t see that changing. He has a good durable chemistry. I think he’s worth the 4.5 to 5.5 a year. Anything above that I wouldn’t touch. I think playing with his cousin may be an attraction and be willing to play for a little less. I think his family situation may be the biggest indicator of where he’s going to go rather than the money. Lets fact it if he didn’t jump on 30 mil for 4 years they money isn’t the attraction its situation.

The sane part of me (yes there is a little bit of sanity in me) says an absolute no deal to Doan. The price and term is simply to risky. I also don’t believe Molson is really gung ho about paying Gomez 5.5 million to play in Hamilton.

However, if indeed Molson is prepared to eat that contract it certainly opens up incredible cap space to afford a risky luxury like Doan. I have no idea how close Price and Doan are as cousins, and from the outside I look at Doan’s visit with Montreal as simply a courtesy and an effective tool to raise his leverage in a contract.

Again I will defer to MB and hope he has a plan in place. However, I do drool at the overall toughness our team could have on lines 1 thru 4 if Doan were added to the 2nd line with perhaps Plex and Gio while keeping DD, Max and Cole together on the 1st line.

Hope everyone is well, time to go hit the links. Got all my brothers in from the Prairies and need to watch them hit all of my golf balls into the woods this morning.

Hope your bag is full of extra golf balls bud. If the Habs were 1 or two players away, I’d be in favor of this at the reported terms. The fact is this is year one of either a rebuild or a significant retool. With some potential youth now in the system perhaps in year 2 or 3 the team might add a player to push us over the top. That said, if the club is going to spend money now I think the need is more on the blue line.

Before stating Shenectady is a big place, the insight that rebuilding is the name of the game for the Habs is dead on. If acquiring expensive free agents were a proven method of winning, the Rangers would have been champs a few times over. Potential “D” regulars in two years, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Ellis, Dietrich, Pateryn. Cornerstone “D”, Subban, Gorges, Emelin (two years from now).

Enough with all the Doan talk, We have a new GM, coach, front office and a stock pile of young talented players 2-3 years from making some real noise. Lets stop with the “immediate gratification” nonsense. Sign PK and lets move forward with a team that will prove exciting and entertaining and enjoy watching a “real” future develop.

Throwing money at an aging player and sacrificing the future is a Maple Leafs move…let’s start bringing in the youth.

_______________________________________________________
Well, he’s kind of had it in for me ever since I accidentally ran over his dog. Actually, replace “accidentally” with “repeatedly” and replace “dog” with “son.”

“It’s sad when our rookies have no NHL experience before they jump up to the NHL.” – nunacanadien

Funny how people say nobody wants to play with the habs or in Canada because of taxes but when it`s time to up the ante…Doan is just using Mtl to raise the stakes. Habs have no interest with him.Too pricy,too old.
It would serve no purpose anyway. Montreal is aiming towards getting younger and also to take the next season to have a serious look at their assets. None of the players available this summer would have made a difference even the big names that were out there and signed to ridiculous deals.
We need to be realistic and cautiously optimistic but mostly stick to our plan to build a team our way with a solid organization . ¨Right now¨ is not an option for Montreal. Need time to put on ice and off ice personnel to the test.

Doan and his agent NEVER said they would definitely visit Montreal. If you read the stories properly the words could, may, and possible were used. He would never say no outright because that would be dumb and then y’all know the anti chambre media storm to follow.

The two chances he comes here are slim and none and slim left the building a long time ago. Once Subban gets done, there is almost no money left considering an injury cushion and then if ever the cap ceiling decreases.Yea yea Gomez to Hamilton

And for sure Doan would look forward to the first press conference when MP Fatty Coderre would show up and ask him if he still considers quebecois *#&*# frogs. Just a beautiful scene waiting to happen and you know the PQ would jump on the bandwagon to get the flag waivers all riled up for the election. Doan has a big American family to think about

Thanks for the new thread Stu. At the end of the last thread, there was some rankings posted about top 10 respected posters of HIO. Very interesting. I think someone at HIO should run with this idea, perhaps the winner of a HIO Pole of the top respected poster gets Boone’s job when he retires.

The easiest way to create controversy on the internet is to create a numbered list.

That said, I saw some people mention me in their lists, I thank them. I personally don’t even think I should be eligible for such a list at this point, I only started posting here during the playoffs. I think I’ve got a long way to go, and actual Habs games to be a part of, before I can even compare to some of the vets.

Thanks to those with the kind words in the last thread though, I do appreciate it.

No controversy around your inclusion commandant. I am surprised that you are that new to the site. You have become a top poster/reason to come to the site. Actually you have become more of a contributing journalist than an ordinary ‘fan with an opinion’ poster like the majority of us.

As someone who lurked here for a couple of years (I only recently can bring myself to not refer to it as HABS Inside Out) but only started posting here a bit over a year ago, I was surprised to see a number of relatively new posters on that suggested list, but your inclusion is absolutely warranted.

There are some who recently appeared and seem to post a lot but often of little consequence. Your posts are always valid and welcome, going beyond the usual “If I was the GM….” schtick.

But really my problem with the list suggestion was that I don’t know how you even get to Top 5, let alone Top 10 without mentioning HabInBurlington, Bill and Chris for their always excellent posts, and Ian Cobb for all his contributions to the greater HIO community expemplified by the Summit.

While I would love to see Doan in a Habs jersey the 4 year term is a deal breaker for me. It’s just too long to pay someone that age and we have enough bad contracts to deal with. We need to build from the draft then sign a big free agent to get us over the hump.

You have to admire Doan though for his loyalty though. If he was smart he’d get the hell out of Phoenix.

Purst is as tough as Staubitz, (he actually wins a few) and will make more of an hockey impact. Moen who missed most of the latter half of the year will add to the team toughness. Not too worried about losing a fourth liner light heavy weight.

I think that many around here forget that Gionta is capable of getting close to 30 goals if healthy. At least this year I feel he is still capable.
Assists are not as valuable as goals. Gionta may not get many assists but he will pot important goals. That´s also why I hold out hope that Bourque (nervously) will prove everybody wrong with the Cammy trade. I think if Bourque can stay within 10 goals of Cammy a year over the next 3 years then, considering the salary free up, the defensive liability, and the draft pick, it can actually turn out to be a good move. But it will be tough to see Cammy go on a 35 goal tear in Calgary and think about what he could´ve done in a less defensive system.

It’s not just salary, it’s about roster positions. You would have Cole, Gionta, and Doan who you are paying to be your top two RWers. You either have a $7M dollar player on the third line or not in his natural position. Not ideal.

I believe you should trade organizational depth to address organizational weaknesses. If the Habs sign Doan, they would have ample depth at RW. I think it would be a good idea to trade Gionta for a left winger or for a big top four defenseman if the deal was there.

Bourque is arguably a right winger as well, even though he is a left shot. Like Cole, he had the most success in Calgary playing on the right side. Based on last season, the left wing experiment did not go so well.

Calgary had Cammy at centre for the end of the season. It will be interesting to see how he does, especially in the Western conference as there are some big centres he will have to play against. And he was not exactly a defensive weapon for Montreal.

I´m actually happy to hear that. If Bourque is clearly better on the right side then they will have to play him on the third line. Find someone with some real firepower for the left wing position on the second line.
At the same time, though, that would mean there is no room for LL at either RW or Centre. What do we do if he is burning up the AHL after 30 games?? It´s already a foregone conclusion that he won´t ever be able to play centre, which is his natural position, for the habs, unless there is a very unexpected trade. I hope that they don´t screw up the kid´s confidence or trade him and let him flourish elsewhere.
Can he really learn to be as good of a RW as he is at centre?? I really hate seeing skilled kids forced to play out of position. Not as much of an issue with someone like White, for example, but I think LL has enough skill to be a decent centre in the NHL if he is brought along properly.

Gionta has a lot of heart and having Doan with Gionta is more of a plus. You need heart in a team when you get a real leader like Doan.

That means that Gionta would have to give up the C, and Gomez would become the highest paid stable pony for the Habs Ownership Committee, Gomez the teddy bear for the habs owners. Who would have thought?

But honestly, why waste a Marc Bergevin if he is as connected as they say? But isn’t that why we overpaid Gomez and Gionta to begin with? How many superstars have they brought for the price?

So why are we still rooting for these mighty smurfs when we should be looking at making the habs a contender, and having 5 foot tall forwards is not gonna cut it.

if he can get Cole, Maxpac, Pleks, Gionta to score between 20 -35 goals and Bourque, Eller, Armstrong to score 15-25 goals we’ll be able to compete and MB just may keep him around anything short of that I would say 2-years max….

Nobody like a 50/50 man, as if we had enough of that from Jacques Martin. Therrien to his credit does well when he has a bunch of real NHL players. What’s he got in Montreal? Nothing but the bottom of the league type players no one wants. As if motivating a lazy Gomez, or a lacklustre player like Markov, or even a tiny tyke defense that couldn’t fight its way out of a paper bag! Bergevin has played up the habs and when they don’t deliver, yes you can bet we will be pissed off again, when we watch what we watched last year. We basically have the same core, minus some real defense, and we have no scorers. When our division is bulked up and has scorers, oh yes, we will again be at the bottom of the league, cause hey, Coors Molson doesn’t want a winner, it takes away from the concerts and events at the Bell Center, not to mention to piss off the Toronto based owners of Geoff Molson Incorporated.

That is why I’m saying we have a clown version of Pierre Gauthier, an establisment man who has no loyalty nor willingness to win. All we have is a bunch of three piece suits ordering the coach and management of the habs, so they can benefit from the loss of the habs…..a tax break is a tax break….

If assists are cheap in the NHL, then every players assists should be questioned.

5.3 million….that is 5.3 million being paid. As I have said before cap hits are not your problem, it is not coming out of your pocket.

You need to calm down and try to be reasonable. Could not even give credit for a plus 30 goal season. You need to watch and learn, listen and pay attention, your emotions are getting the best of your judgement.

Why don’t we ask NHL.com to just list Gomez’s lifetime goals? This is now very embarrasing and if Bergevin doesn’t send him to Hamilton to sign Doan or some Doan type player, then we know Bergevin is just a clown version of Gauthier.

Actually, I haven’t been watching him Lately, it is July 31st last time I looked. You are projecting 5 goals for next year, or do you think he has 5 goals right now. I am getting quite worried that you might need to up your medications.

Yes, you are right, I will be the first to say “I told you so”, you should be happy if I say that because Canadiens might be moving up the Standings. Gomez having success means the Canadiens will be winning I would think.

“Has indeed sucked,” is speaking about the past. New beginning “sunshine”….new beginnings.

it’s the Duchess on tranquille, formerly out backs.. but then they spent over a million$ to totally renovate the whole place.. hell they spend another 2 mil or something like that to redo the hotel upstairs too so now you can stay and play in style while your here .. its quite pimp lol

“When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”

No, I wish! I used to go to Montreal all the time when I lived in Ontario. but I ended up out west and don’t get to visit any more … oh well I keep myself distracted from missing the east by keeping busy with my work

“When we remember we are all mad, the mysteries disappear and life stands explained.”