If Barla are behind this, which group of blazeaucrats are campaigning most against it?

To be fair I think most of Barla's time at the moment will be taken up with the Pennine League takeover debate.

To its detriment I gain the impression that its become very Yorkshire centric over the last few years with the result it's become distracted with pursuing the Winter/Summer debate against the RFL. Imagine all them Yorkshiremon rowing with Yorkshiremon!

Or is it just individual malcontents at individual clubs?

LC will no doubt chip in st this point but there doesn't to be an overwhelming head of steam to make more changes ( such as the playing season ) . When I was at the last NWC meeting I heard a number of others saying they just wanted to play and shaking their heads at the cluster of hands that kept shooting up to try and take the meeting into EGM territory.

There was an acknowledgement there needed to be some changes , I don't think anyone seriously believes there have not been done difficulties, but not baby with bath water stuff.

I know individuals at one of my old playing clubs were less than convinced about a move to summer. I think they actually voted against, but they have now added a couple of junior teams and doubled their open age meaning they're looking at an A Team. There are a lot of successes out there. Problem is people, as happens in most walks of life, only see news in the bad.

Pity M. You seem keen to do things properly. This is what is/was required for LC to take the next step. Or would you prefer for people speaking sense to be drowned out by those who have nothing to say but say it the loudest?

Can you quieten down a little please so I can hear Lord Charles.

Revealing your plans to early is like making love, arrive to early and your not much good.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

You are not laying siege to Buenos Aires, you are trying to win an argument about changes to a sport's operational rules; do you not think some of your language ref 'revealing your plans' might be over-egging it a bit?

You are not laying siege to Buenos Aires, you are trying to win an argument about changes to a sport's operational rules; do you not think some of your language ref 'revealing your plans' might be over-egging it a bit?

Not at all.

Carlsberg don't do Soldiers, but if they did, they would probably be Brits.

You are not laying siege to Buenos Aires, you are trying to win an argument about changes to a sport's operational rules; do you not think some of your language ref 'revealing your plans' might be over-egging it a bit?

Not laying siege in Buenos Aires we'll leave them to their kick and clap game, which by the way, has been greatly assisted in the north of England by the "RFL's summer switch"

Not laying siege in Buenos Aires we'll leave them to their kick and clap game, which by the way, has been greatly assisted in the north of England by the "RFL's summer switch"

It's certainly assisted those union players that wanted to try league out in their off season. In places where the league clubs are full of friendly, welcoming people without a chip on their shoulder that seems to be paying dividends ...

Rugby League is a sport that desperately needs to expand its geographical supporter base and its player base. This imperative means that all other requirements are secondary until this is done.

All power in the game should be with governing bodies, especially international governing bodies.

Without these actions we will remain a minor sport internationally and nationally.

Union and league both benefit with the summer switch , with loads of League lads switching to union in the winter .

The four seasons concept which seems to have been lost in the debate should allow individual leagues to operate in the best fit scenario .

Back to topic then ;

B1:2 START AND END OF SEASONB1:2:1 The RFL will determine the date of commencement of the Season and the date on which it shall cease. Any application to play outside of these dates must be approved by the respective Management Group.

So reading that as a volunteer run league why should we have the right to determine what is best for us taken away from us ?

If Barla are behind this, which group of blazeaucrats are campaigning most against it?

To be fair I think most of Barla's time at the moment will be taken up with the Pennine League takeover debate.

To its detriment I gain the impression that its become very Yorkshire centric over the last few years with the result it's become distracted with pursuing the Winter/Summer debate against the RFL. Imagine all them Yorkshiremon rowing with Yorkshiremon!

Or is it just individual malcontents at individual clubs?

LC will no doubt chip in st this point but there doesn't to be an overwhelming head of steam to make more changes ( such as the playing season ) . When I was at the last NWC meeting I heard a number of others saying they just wanted to play and shaking their heads at the cluster of hands that kept shooting up to try and take the meeting into EGM territory.

There was an acknowledgement there needed to be some changes , I don't think anyone seriously believes there have not been done difficulties, but not baby with bath water stuff.

I know individuals at one of my old playing clubs were less than convinced about a move to summer. I think they actually voted against, but they have now added a couple of junior teams and doubled their open age meaning they're looking at an A Team. There are a lot of successes out there. Problem is people, as happens in most walks of life, only see news in the bad.

Out of interest how are numbers at the Pats have you lost or gained with the summer switch ?

Out of interest how are numbers at the Pats have you lost or gained with the summer switch ?

Added a couple of younger age groups I think.

We dropped 16's this year but that's because we'd lost players to other teams of the last couple of seasons. Nothing to do with the Winter/Summer thing. Other matters at play.

We looked to run 2 18's teams early on but now just one. A bit ambitious but we had the numbers down. Again not summer issues but lads having other things to do other than training and playing, including but in no particular order girlsfriends, socialising, work and college. All stuff of course that is involved 12 months a year.

Numbers look pretty healthy as far as I'm aware. Pitches have never looked better ( and I go back 30 years to playing days ) and club seems to be going very well.

It's certainly assisted those union players that wanted to try league out in their off season. In places where the league clubs are full of friendly, welcoming people without a chip on their shoulder that seems to be paying dividends ...

We dropped 16's this year but that's because we'd lost players to other teams of the last couple of seasons. Nothing to do with the Winter/Summer thing. Other matters at play.

We looked to run 2 18's teams early on but now just one. A bit ambitious but we had the numbers down. Again not summer issues but lads having other things to do other than training and playing, including but in no particular order girlsfriends, socialising, work and college. All stuff of course that is involved 12 months a year.

Numbers look pretty healthy as far as I'm aware. Pitches have never looked better ( and I go back 30 years to playing days ) and club seems to be going very well.

So that translates to losing two teams nothing to do with playing in a summer season really ?

Nowt wrong with my understanding of what you have put , you just seem to be skirting round the issue, when was the last time St Pats did not run a youth team at U16s ?

You started the summer season with two teams at U18s which dropped to one , granted not to the proposed operational rules but a loss of two teams at your club whichever way you look at it , you have added a U7s in the latter end of the summer .

This is not an attack on St Pats but just me trying to get you to look at the true picture quoting whats going at other clubs whilst not acknowledging whats going on at your own.

St Pats are a solid club always have been but when clubs like Brook and yourselves lose teams then surely we need to start asking why ?

Nowt wrong with my understanding of what you have put , you just seem to be skirting round the issue, when was the last time St Pats did not run a youth team at U16s ?

A while I would think, but that particular team had been going in the wrong direction for literally 3 years. A good year or so before the summer start and more actually to do with "good" players seeking a "good" team for scholarship purposes. One other local team had actually recruited 4 such players from us over 2 years.

You started the summer season with two teams at U18s which dropped to one , granted not to the proposed operational rules but a loss of two teams at your club whichever way you look at it , you have added a U7s in the latter end of the summer .

And the year before I don't think we had run a full 18's and had a very limited number. So we went from a dozen 18's to nearly 50 players in 12 months "despite" the summer season and having actually had a large cohort from last season's National Cup winning team having signed pro.

Keeping 2 teams interested depends on other teams committing to fixtures and players not having other things to do. As I say "summer" issues don't really seem to have been the problem.

In fact one team who had not been able to commit to matches in March, April, were able to do so once players had "returned from University" for the summer. To follow that logic the team would have difficulties fielding any team during the University year which happens largely to co-incide with a "winter" season.

It's swings and roundabout. Having committed to the summer, should we not give it a proper go. We seem to lose sight if the fact that the move to summer was proceeded by clubs saying they were losing numbers.

The problem with stats is that they depend on accurate information. A lot has been made of recent figures showing a decline leading to a withdrawal of Sport England money from the RFL, yet at the same time there seems to be at least some acknowledgment that the original Sport England monies were based on "over egged" figures, as was the position with other sports who also lost some funding.

If matters have not improved over 3 or 4 full seasons then the issue clearly needs looking at, but until people commit and give it a proper go we'll never know what is the best for the sport.

I remember the last full Winter season we did not play any competitive rugby from November until mid-March. That is when you lose players, which I think was acknowledged when the extended mid-summer break was removed this year.

The players want to know that they'll have a game after training all week. A full fixture list without extended breaks will keep their enthusiam.

As for those under 7's ( and our cubs from 3,4,5 years ) they are the future of the sport. Would parents bring them out at 6 on a January evening?

I appreciate it will be more difficult for older players to adjust their habits and done sadly may have been lost to the sport, but others as I have alluded to earlier have been gained. But within a generation the bulk of players are likely to come from a time when they've only known a March- September season.

So to summarise the lack of meaningful fixtures is a problem as is the un availability of players especially at youth .
As for the importance of investing into cubs who was it it tied the RFL into developing a structured program ?
As for your question re bringing your children to clubs in winter then the answer is yes because all responsible clubs provide indoor facilities as they have done for many years .