Advice to a NEWBIE on home defensive weapon.

This is a discussion on Advice to a NEWBIE on home defensive weapon. within the Defensive Ammunition & Ballistics forums, part of the Defensive Carry Discussions category; I posted the following on free republic:
I see from New Orleans that when the social order breaks down, we are responsible for our own ...

Advice to a NEWBIE on home defensive weapon.

I posted the following on free republic: I see from New Orleans that when the social order breaks down, we are responsible for our own defense. I am planning on getting a firearm with the correct training that will be stashed away in a crawl space, never to be used unless a dire situation arises. The scum looters can come for me, that's fine, but I am going out in a blaze of glory.

I am seeking advice on what I should get. A handgun, a rifle? I'm sure there are big time gunners on freep and I could use some solid advice. Thanks.

A regular from here recommended this site as the right place to ask this question. I got some good advice on freep but I am interested in any advice you might have. My intention is to maintain the weapon in a well hidden area and to only bring this out if there is ever a break down into gangs and looters.

It is a large choice you have - with so many different parameters - including even just how much you may need to consider just what is beyond your target. But let's think here SHTF as against within a ''normal'' civilian stable situation.

Many will say and I agree up to a point - the shotgun perhaps reigns supreme for close quarters ''deterence'' and protection. Loaded with 00 buck as favorite ,the one shot at close range produces 9 nasty ''stingers''!!! A 870 would do nicely with mag extension.

The shotgun tho is harder to hide - and so is a rifle but in some ways the rifle reigns supreme as it has both longer range and greater firepower - for instance an AK or variant - with a few 30 round mags is gonna settle quite a few ''arguments''!

If tho something smaller is needed to aid concealment then we may have to think handgun - and here perhaps capacity is gonna count. Not knowing just how long said gun might be unattended - and so how long mags would be loaded and not available for load/unload, to relax spring might be worth considering. I am no Glocker and forget half the darned numbers but the Glock with double stack for .45acp has awesome capacity and would store well IMO.... maybe highest cap you'll find for cal.

Of course old slabsides will do fine too but without an extended mag, your capacity may seem too low. Then 9mm options - plenty of those. Even a BHP with 30 round mag or Glock 17 with 33 round mag, etc.

Bottom line - you'll have to go choose between shottie, rifle (carbine) or handgun - and only you know what you wish there for storage. In the end, a weapon - any weapon is good compared with zilch.

Let's see what other folks have to input here - it is a large subject and views vary greatly.

I hope you'll enjoy this site as much as I have. I have in the past seen other sites where people will ask questions like this and get an array of insulting answers from armchair commandos who don't own half of the guns they brag about. I've found that in stark contrast, the most knowledgeable people here normally have logical, sensible answers and are very practical.

You sound essentially like someone brand new to the wonderful world of shooting, and you also sound like the kind of person I empathize with. You wouldn't know it from my online activities, but defensive shooting is just another part of my life much like my interest in pickup trucks or my interest in computers. It's a practical, sensible person who asks such a question as yours and by doing so, you have taken a first step towards living a better and safer life.

I will precaution you that knowledge and methodology is paramount when we are talking about a firearm in a defensive role. However, none can deny that if one does not even have a firearm in the first place, it's quite difficult to practice with it.

To better answer your question, I'd have to ask you some personal questions: How much money are you willing to invest? What is your specific purpose for the firearm? Do you have any sort of criteria for it? How do you plan to store and maintain it properly? What is your previous experience with firearms? Have you located some sort of local facility where you can at least practice with it in some capacity or possibly receive any sort of training? That last one is key.

I will warn you that while this process isn't prohibitively expensive, especially if you make use of free knowledge available from sites like this one, it does require a commitment of your time and money, and it requires you to have a serious mindset. Personally I view it like I view paying my insurance premiums.

In a lot of localities you can find very affordable "Learn to Shoot" classes. This will usually require an investment of $50-$75 and are typically about 4 hours long. This would be a great place to start. They begin with safety, handling, and good solid basics that we all must spend time relearning every so often. A lot of these classes are put on by people who care, and they often bring an assortment of common firearms for you to try for yourself.

At this point I would caution you that you really should maintain some modicum of practice and training with any firearm. I personally will not sit here and lecture anyone on how much is enough because this is a free country and we must all make that decision for ourselves.

I would also like to add that I view expertise in firearms as something you build and cultivate over time. The more I learn the more I realize I don't know. However, firearms do offer an excellent return on your investments in practice and training so take heart. Honestly if you fired one box of .22 LR cartridges at a target once a month you'd likely be a better marksman than a sizable portion of our military and police forces.

Now as for what kind of gun to get, there are as many good answers to this question as there are people. I'll give you my 2 cents: if this is your first gun, and you just want a gun to have a gun, I'd start with a quality .22 caliber rifle. I'd also get a copy of Cooper's The Art of the Rifle and read it thoroughly before I took the aforementioned "Learn to Shoot" class.

I hope this helped a little bit. And the more you volunteer to tell us, the more useful and specific responses you'll get.

Well depends what you want to spend and what kind of power your looking for a 870 remington or 1300 winchester defender are a great home defense Gun

A rifle of some kind also Be it a Ak variant or a Ar-15 More power more Ammo and lots of loaded mags cane be stored with them

Then ya got your handgun ole Slabsides is a Fav of mine but a Glock 17 is pretty handy to with a 17 rounder in it and a 33 rounder beside it or 2 or 3

For my home defense i have at hand Right now and subject to change in 5 mins for the house a 1300 winchester defender loaded with buck and slugs next to bed.

Ar-15 close by the bed with 5 30 round mags

Then on the bedstand is usually a 45 of some kind not always a 1911 but a 45 then my glock 17 does duty there to i alternate for cleaning and such ..

one thing i give the edge to is a Shottie at close range hard to miss with buck shot on the - side for rifle and shottie need both hands to use it where as a 1911 or glock can have a free hand while firing

I posted the following on free republic:
[I]I see from New Orleans that when the social order breaks down, we are responsible for our own defense. I am planning on getting a firearm...that will be stashed away in a crawl space, never to be used unless a dire situation arises. The scum looters can come for me, that's fine, but I am going out in a blaze of glory...

For the scenario you have presented, I would say buying a firearm is a waste of money. Your "proper training" would be followed by stashing the firearm in a crawl space, never to be used. If you do not accept a regimen of training that is on-going, you will not be proficient. If you are not proficient, you will not be effective. If you are not effective, you might as well be unarmed. So, if you consider your home defense something never to be used, and not a part of your life, then I suggest saving your money for more practical things.

I applaud you for thinking to arm yourself. I encourage you to make training in the use of your weapon an on-going part of your life. That means frequent training. That means having your firearm(s) at hand, well-maintained, and ready for use at all times. You might argue that you intend to maintain your firearm, even though you have it stashed, never to be used, but the chief difference between what you propose and what I suggest is mindset.

Let me also suggest that you forget the blaze of glory thing. It's only a blaze of glory if you have an audience; otherwise, you are just dead. If you aren't proficient, in the situation you describe, you are going to find your ticket punched by someone who is faster, more proficient, and desperately focused on survival - not on dying in a blaze of glory.

That said, if you are intent on getting one weapon for home defense to stash away, never to be used, then I suggest you get a marine, pump-action shotgun. It is effective, easy to use, easy to maintain and corrosion-resistant. In this case, "marine" means resistant to the effects of salt and water. A marine shotgun is less prone to corrode stashed away in a crawlspace.

If you want to make home defense part of your life, rather than part of your death, then I suggest a layered defense. Give yourself the ability to defend yourself at long, intermediate and close ranges. I suggest you consider a rifle or carbine for intermediate-to-long range defense, a shotgun for intermediate-to-close range defense, and a handgun for close (some would say close-to-intermediate) range. I also suggest that you learn some approach to manual combat.

For home defense, I would get a shotgun, first. I would look for an 18"-20" barrel, with rifle, or preferably ghost ring sights. If possible, you want one that gives you the option of shooting slugs or shot. Marine shotguns are more corrosion-resistant. Regular shotguns are less expensive. You have choices in pump and semi-auto. I prefer pump for home defense. Next, I would find a handgun or two that I liked. 9mm, 357 SIG, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, and .45 GAP are all effective, proven pistol calibers and cartridges. If you prefer a revolver, there are equivalent calibers and cartridges for revolvers, too. Choose what you shoot best (which means you need to try before you buy) and use premium ammunition for personal defense. Finally, I would consider a rifle. For urban or suburban use, I would choose a carbine, myself. For a rural setting, I would choose a true rifle.

Handguns are typically used at ranges of 7-15 yards, or less. Someone proficient with a handgun can make it effective at ranges of 25-50 yards or even more, but it is considered a close range weapon. Handgun battles typically occur at ranges of 7 yards or less. Shotguns are effective at ranges up to about 25 yards with shot, and 50-100 yards with slugs. Carbines are effective at ranges up to 100-150 yards depending on the cartridge and caliber. Rifles can be effective up to 500 yards or more. With a layered defense, you have far more flexibility to respond to a changing situation.

Just some initial thoughts. Welcome to CC and good luck with your decision.

"Your "proper training" would be followed by stashing the firearm in a crawl space, never to be used. If you do not accept a regimen of training that is on-going, you will not be proficient. If you are not proficient, you will not be effective. If you are not effective, you might as well be unarmed. So, if you consider your home defense something never to be used, and not a part of your life, then I suggest saving your money for more practical things..."

The above snipet from Tom's post is excellent advice. Too many people buy guns, maybe shoot them once or not at all, put them away and consider themselves protected when actually they are not. Moreover, the lack of familiarity with a gun tends to make a person an unsafe gun handler.

So to reflect what Tom said, if you get a gun, get training, learn to use it!

The Freeper was probably ME. Right? Okay I also highly recommend the following books, not just for you but for all the members of this forum. I don't remember the names of the authors but a search on amazon should bring them up fast. One is written by an Air Force Major and is titled: Living the Martial Way and the other was written by a ancient Japanese warrior and translated into English and it's called The Five Rings Both are excellent treatises on the warrior mindset. This is a vital component to continued survival in a world that is rapidly growing more and more dangerous. These are NOT "boring" reads. To the contrary they are insightful, fascinating and will send chills up your spine!