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Creating an Earth Galactic Union/United Systems of Earth/etc..etc...

I think somewhere there might be a thread like this but I can't find it so I'm starting a new one here.

In the future...very soon I hope...the Stargate program is made public to the world, the truth about aliens and the ancient history of man is revealed.

What do we do now?

If we don't destroy ourselves I say we as the people of Earth need to take to space in mass. Start large scale colonies, build a fleet ships to explore and to find new resources, begin the systematic freeing of enslaved worlds and ultimately bring the entire galaxy under one great union as we defeat our great and evil enemies.

Now how do we do this....???

"Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

Basically we should only colonize planets that are closest to us and, obviously, we don't invade other people's territory. If we became some sort of nasty race of people not unlike the Galactic Empire from Star Wars, I don't think the Asgard would like our space colonization efforts too much

Thor: The Asgard would never invent a weapon that propels small weights of iron and carbon alloys, by igniting a powder of potassium nitrate, charcoal and sulphur.

Well if the Earth won't come together and colonize the galaxy then America will have to do most of the work...and most people don't want that do they?

Last edited by donnie_darko; August 30th, 2004 at 10:03 PM.

"Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

1) First we need to get lots of mining colonizes; we will be need lots of Naq. and Tritium.

2) Build off world command centers, in order to set up as many colonies as possible in the shortest amount of time. We also need to set up heavily armed basses of operations like the SGC on other planets.

3) Start building a fleet of ships to explore planets outside the gate network and build construction facilities on other planets.

4) Start making treaties with other planets, we will arm them with weapons if they agree to help us fight the Goa'uld (sounds bad I know )

5) Get other advance races to help us with our technology, and make treaties with them, trade, military, non-aggression etc.

ETC......
What else....

"Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

I have not had sleep for a day or so now, so if this post seems weird it is the lack of sleep, plus I'm waiting for the Ambien to kick in.

If the world does not unit after the Stargate goes public than I think America should take steps to create a "Global America". I mean we should not let other peaty nations stop us from our manifest destiny. Like the Aschen, we will take control of entire planets and make them serve our needs. We will go forth from one side of the galaxy to the other and build a great galactic empire.

This stuff is not for the faint of heart I'm talking about returning to the wars of conquest and expansion.

The other nations of the world do not stand a chance to defend themselves against the military/economic/social might of the USA. I know we will have lots of resistance, especial from the Middle East, China, Russia, and Western Europe but as it stands; we are the only defense against alien invasion, what they are going to us. In addition, we are also the only nation with a huge space ship, how are you going to fight a nation with a spaceship and alien technology.

First the Earth, the galaxy, then the local galactic group.

"Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

If the world does not unit after the Stargate goes public than I think America should take steps to create a "Global America". I mean we should not let other peaty nations stop us from our manifest destiny. Like the Aschen, we will take control of entire planets and make them serve our needs. We will go forth from one side of the galaxy to the other and build a great galactic empire.

First of all, as you've given no indication that you're not serious about these comments, I'm going to respond to them as if they are said in all seriousness.
first - Petty nations.
Have you done any kind of historical research on the effects of expansionism and imperialism? Particularly in the 18th and 19th centuries? Because if you have then I'm sure you would have come across all the bad things that occur because of it. Such as illness and death and destroying native cultures and slavery.
Isn't that what the SGC is fighting AGAINST?
As for manifest destiny... all I can say if you seriously believe that conquering other nations is the way to go, or even worse - the ultimate goal of America, I'm incredibly glad you're not in a position to do just that.

Originally Posted by donnie_darko

This stuff is not for the faint of heart I'm talking about returning to the wars of conquest and expansion.

you certainly are!!
and here I thought we'd actually changed and grown for the better since testosterone driven men needed to kill and conquer to get their jollies!
but seriously, like I said above, expansionism and imperialism are not what the SGC want to do.
They're looking to explore, to share technology and culture with other planets. Not take without mercy.

Originally Posted by donnie_darko

The other nations of the world do not stand a chance to defend themselves against the military/economic/social might of the USA. I know we will have lots of resistance, especial from the Middle East, China, Russia, and Western Europe but as it stands; we are the only defense against alien invasion, what they are going to us. In addition, we are also the only nation with a huge space ship, how are you going to fight a nation with a spaceship and alien technology.

First the Earth, the galaxy, then the local galactic group.

Resistance: possibly because it would be a monsterous thing to do?
Just because the US has control of the stargate does not mean they've got the right to make all the decisions about it. Every action that happens because of the Gate directly or indirectly effects the rest of the world as well.

and the US is the only defence against an alien invasion because they refuse to give information to the rest of the world about how to build these weapons etc. as well as the means to get them.

Besides, what you're suggesting is exactly what the Goa'uld do. You are (however rightly - sorry couldn't resist that political dig.. ) turning the US into a power hungry nation, desperate to take control over as much as they can.

and now.. if you truely were tongue in cheek - I apologise, I get a bit passionate about these things.
and well done by the way. if you were sarcastic then you've written it quite well.

01. We need lots of Naquadah and Trinium for ships, but we also need to find iron and other elements needed in construction.

02. We need to educate the people that want to be educated on the more primite worlds.

03. We need to build a defense grid like the one in Absolute Power, but without the override button. That way the people can evolve in peace without fear of being invaded.

04. We shouldn't equip primitive worlds with modern weapons.

05. We need more ship yards, some on Earth and some off-world. If possible we should start doing 0-grav ship yards.

06. We need to figure out Fusion.

07. Of course we need a Gamma Site and many more off-world bases.

08. We need ALOT better sensors, both subspace and normal space ones.

09. Make a sensor grid that covers the whole United Planets-territory.

10. Figure out beam weapons (so that we don't need ground troops)

11. Make Naquadriah stable.

12. Start turning Naquadah into Naquadriah.

13. Making sure all planets in the allegiance benefits from the technology, and not just Earth.

14. Have a Counsil where the Tok'Ra, Earth, Asgard, Serakin, Nox if they find it worthy enough, Oannes, Spirits if they want to, Martin's people(just one ship I know), Gadmeer if they are ready with the terraforming, The Rebel Jaffa might as well be here too, and a few reperesentatives from the "primitive" worlds too. That way we're sure to get it as even as possible.

And as power_ranger wrote, promote trading and cultural/historical and such exchange too. Remove the money-system, instead start trading in basic elements and technology instead.

With the removal of money, and with so many planets in the allegiance poverty would disapear.

I think people don't quite realise just how many worlds are out there.

It is VERY likely that in the SG universe that you could give a Earth type planet to each individual on Earth and still have plenty over.

There are 300,000,000,000 stars in the MW and if we take our system as a basic template for general configuration, there is most likely a many of 3-7 planets per system, with at least 12 or so moons. This rounds up to 15-19 bodies per system. Of course this is speculation but its as good as any.

With 15-19 bodies in a star system, there is a few chance that at least one of the bodies in a number of systems will have water, and oxygen. Now upon those worlds assuming they are at the right gravity and distance from any thermal energy/radiate sources, they should have a good chance of supporting human life.

300,000,000,000 star systems * 15 planetary bodies = 4,500,000,000,000 planetary bodies in the MW, divide that by 1000 for conditions and you get 4,500,000,000 Earth type planets. Earths population is 6,000,000,000 near about. Plenty of room! LOL

Now I think this is all irrelevent since Earth can support 6 billion people. I'm pretty sure just another planet could really help relief some of the overcrowding problems Earth as. 2 planets 3 billion on each, 3 planets 2 billion each, 4 planets 1.5 billion each, 10 planets 600 million each, 100 planets 60 million each. You get the picture, maybe colonisation isn't such a good idea, unless you also practised very harsh birth control. You could in a few centuries have 100 planets with 6 billion on each. YIKES!

Just a side note, I really doubt anyone with even a pea sized brain would want to live in a Star Trek type Federation. If anything I think the uinverse would turn into a Star Wars type republic with a galactic council. Maybe a beefed up version of the Galactic Alliance.

I would like to see Earth get off its lazy arse... Go to other planets like the Sakkracan, Asgard, Nox, even Goauld and form a Galactic Council designed to bring law and order to the galaxy. I don't think it should have the right to arm races, give technology to other races that aren't members.

I think an incentive of basic technology could be give to anyone willing to join the council and become part of the process. Simple technology like shields, SG coordinates, propulsion, elementary table with all known elements, food technologies, medical technologies, even hyperspace technologies. I think this could be used to pull in potential members and to give them all a good start in the galaxy. By getting the Goauld to become members you have first not alienated them (which would be VERY bad), second you force them into a non-hostile environment in which they can interact, third it really weakens their position if they see a lot of races interact with the council. You could also setup a kind of NATO idea to the council, meaning any attack against a member of the council would or could be met by the full force of all the members. This would probably appeal to the Goauld to have play nice rather than loose everything. I really doubt they could fight the entire galaxy in one go.

The council through interaction with the Goauld over decades could give the Goauld a different idea about how to act. It would be nice to see the Goauld chose to be good rather than forcing them to be good.

I'd say we'd have to sort out our own problems before we try anything like that-poverty would be number one on my list...

Theory's good but I've heard arguments that solving poverty has to come before any serious exploration of space which bugs me slightly as I don't see why we can't get to work on both projects similtaneously(add the fact that Earth's serious exploration of space has been my main dream for humanity since I was a kid).

Now you're making the same arguments to delay serious exploration even in a universe where there are known interstellar bad guys. How long will the Goa'uld, Wraith etc have a free run while we're 'solving our own problems?'.

>If the world does not unit after the Stargate goes public than I think >America should take steps to create a "Global America". I mean we should >not let other peaty nations stop us from our manifest destiny. Like the >Aschen, we will take control of entire planets and make them serve our >needs. We will go forth from one side of the galaxy to the other and build a >great galactic empire.

As an American, and a patriot, this makes me almost physically ill. "Peaty" (presumbably you meant "pesky"?) nations have just as much right to exist as does the United States. "Manifest Destiny" is a nineteenth century term for expansion to the Pacific (acheived, BTW). "Make them serve our needs" - are you crazy? Why on Earth (or elsewhere) would we want that?

Donny, "Global America" is already coming (here in some cases), no Stargate needed. I dislike political discussions outside the scope of the show, but we don't need to "conquer" the world to make it safe - just look at the process of globalization.

>This stuff is not for the faint of heart I'm talking about returning to the wars >of conquest and expansion.

Why? Why is this necessary? Please note that I am not "faint of heart", and have no problem with the use of the US military to defend us.

>The other nations of the world do not stand a chance to defend themselves >against the military/economic/social might of the USA.

That is correct - for now. The United States exists as a unipolar power because no one (of power) feels threatened enough by us to build a comparable power base. The minute we start throwing our weight around, someone will, and then we have the glorious examples of Napoleon, Hitler and Stalin to let us know the fate the awaits "world conquerors".

>I know we will have lots of resistance, especial from the Middle East, China, >Russia, and Western Europe but as it stands;

Also Mexico, Brazil, Chile, the Bahamas, Monaco, Pago-Pago...basically everyone that isn't the US.

>we are the only defense against alien invasion, what they are going to us.

As opposed to what we are going to do them - great choice if you're not American - enslavement by the Go'a'uld, or enslavement by the USA.

>In addition, we are also the only nation with a huge space ship, how are >you going to fight a nation with a spaceship and alien technology.

Carefully.

>First the Earth, the galaxy, then the local galactic group.[/QUOTE]

Stupid, Donny, very stupid. Short-sighted too; even if we win the short-term, in the long-term we've got 5.7 billion other humans on Earth hating our guts. No long-term win there. Oh, and thanks for reinforcing the "ugly American" stereotype for the non-US members of the list. Great move, that.

First of all, uniting Earth. Not as easy as it sounds. Many cultures right here on our little blue orb are just as "primitive" and some are even more barbaric than many of the cultures we've encountered out there. Many of those cultures have value systems that are diametrically opposed to a constitutionally based federation (I'm thinking not only of Islamic middle-eastern countries here but also Communist Asia, much of South America and even, to a lesser degree, Socialist European countries).

In order to form a federation you have to have sufficient common ground. Earth has failed thus far to find it (don't even get me started on the travesty of the UN), and I doubt that the revelation of interplanetary travel and the existence of alien life would change that much.

You've got to remember that the United States is a special case. Its founders and early colonists were like-minded people from a similar cultural background working towards a common goal. They had the same values system (there were relatively small differences of opinion but on most matters of importance they were in complete agreement). It's true that America later became a "Melting Pot," accepting immigrants from many diverse countries and backgrounds, but these were largely disenfranchised people who individually made the choice to come to America and accept its culture and values system.

Similarly the EU is a federation of very like-minded cultures and countries. We're talking about a pattern far different in principle and practise from Imperialism. You can't just impose the Western culture, values, and system of government on unwilling subjects. Well, you can, but it's immoral and it doesn't work in the long run. Sure, you can (and I believe ought to) offer them as an example, and give aid in putting them into practise if invited to do so.

The problem of diversity and cultural differences can also be expanded to the interplanetary level. In fact the cultural divide is likely to be even more extreme since you're talking about not only thousands of years of independent cultural evolution on lines that are bound to be far different from our own (meaning, mainly "Western Civilization" as it's called) but alien races as well, species who not only do not share our culture and values, but may not even think like we do, right down to a neurological level. It would take hundreds of years, if ever, for such a federation to develop. I think the best we could hope for would be a strong treaty-based alliance of independent worlds, rather than an actual interplanetary government. In fact I think that such an alliance is ultimately preferable.

Next, the sharing of technology. We've seen with the Tollan, the Nox, Ancients, and other races an unwillingness to share potentially dangerous technology with less advanced neighbors. We've even seen the potential consequences ourselves with sharing our own tech with other cultures ("The Other Side"). While I'm pretty much rabidly opposed to such nonsense as the Star Trek "Prime Directive" (in fact, in practice I think such a policy of absolute non-interference is extremely immoral, and incidentally rather impractical), I do think we would be justified in withholding information or technology that we considered potentially dangerous either to ourselves or to others, both to other nations here on Earth, and elsewhere in the galaxy. For example, nuclear power could benefit millions in 3rd world countries here on earth. But the US isn't about to hand out nuclear reactors as humanitarian aid, because the likelihood is extremely high that they would be used by some governments to develop nuclear weapons with which to attack each other and us. OTOH I'm opposed to the US interfering with the independent development of such technologies without significant reason to believe they pose a serious threat to our own safety.

As regards colonization, I'm in favor of Earth colonizing uninhabited worlds, and see no problem with "population growth," which I see as a false dilemma to begin with. I'm more cautious about colonizing populated worlds. Most of the worlds we've seen are considerably less developed than ours, and I think it's likely that where we go, we would overwhelm whatever existing cultures there were, much as, unfortunately, the American colonists overwhelmed and nearly exterminated the indigenous peoples of this continent. I'm not totally opposed to colonies on Allies' worlds if we're invited, but we'd need to exercise caution wherever a geat disparity of power existed, to make sure it wasn't misused. Of course, that would be equally true in reverse, were we to set up a colony on a world more advanced than ours.

Given what I've already said about conflicting cultures, opposing interests, the dangers of sharing space travel and other gate-related technology even with other countries on our own planet, it's likely that even after the Stargate goes public, offworld exploration, colonization, etc. will still be largely controlled by the US. Maybe some people feel bad about that. I don't, really. Partly because I'm American. Call it arrogance, call it national pride or patriotism if you're feeling more charitable. I think that the Stargate is in the best possible hands where it is. That's where the chips fell. Until things on Earth change significantly, that's where they should stay. In the meantime, let us share as much as we can and will with our allies.

Just to let people know I was being sarcastic, and I was awake for 30 hours and on sleeping meds. It helps get people going if I take an extreme view of things, I could have gone extreme left or right but in light of current world politics I decide to go right to heat things up. For example extreme left...

The world is to much under American influence and under to much political control, as a citizen of the world I believe that we should strive for a Earth that does not need war like nation, I see a time where the people of Earth will relies that they can do better and find a path toward uniting........

And so forth I bet people would call me a misty eyed idealist instead of "ugly American" if I went left. But I wanted this so I'm glad.

But I wonder why no one picked up on the fact that I used some of the same words as Daniel in ABSOLUTE POWER 417.

Last edited by donnie_darko; August 31st, 2004 at 09:41 AM.

"Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"

Theory's good but I've heard arguments that solving poverty has to come before any serious exploration of space which bugs me slightly as I don't see why we can't get to work on both projects similtaneously

Given the situation in the Stargate universe, space exploration is a practical road to solving poverty. Not only does it open new possibilities for trade, but for those poor and disenfranchised people on Earth, it also offers an opportunity to escape poverty through colonization.

I just got a mental picture of the Stargate with a banner above it that says "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses..." and a LOOooooooong line of people waiting to step through.

If the US tried to take over the world there are quite a few countries with nuclear weapons that might be forced to use them.

I'd say the US would probably launch a strike pre-emptively; along similar lines to current US foreign policy....the "shoot first, ask questions later" approach. However, there would be no return "second strike". Yet if it did come to a nuclear war, imo, as Colson said "we would deserve it"...

O'Neill: We came here in peace, and we expect to go in one... piece.

Jackson: This is a radio. It's so my friends can find me, and shoot you.

If the USA would wait a few years to develop shield tech and then do a first strike we would have create the first winnable nuclear war scenario. Would also help if we find a way to clean up after a nuclear war. NOT that we would do it.......

"Khattam-Shud," he said slowly, "is the Arch-Enemy
of all Stories, even of Language itself. He is the Prince of
Silence and the Foe of Speech. And because everything ends,
because dreams end, stories end, life ends, at the finish
of everything we use his name. 'It's finished,' we tell one
another, 'it's over. Khattam-Shud: The End.'"