Then... perhaps... you know... - Teach kids how to use birth control? Show them every form with proper statistics? - Don't tell them that they're going to die every time you have sex? (By doing that you're going the Catholic route of things and guilting them about sex, their bodies, and potentially ruining their view of sex forever.) - Stress the importance of monogamy, but also keep infidelity in mind? - Let them know how easy and cheap it is for a kid their age to obtain STD tests and stress the importance of a yearly test?

baby, how do you find the time to frequent this message board, with all of those people knocking on your door, phoning you, visiting incarcerated relatives of friends, witness a young woman nearly die from Ecstasy (that one's from another thread)? The list goes on. You are truly a remarkable person.

Deb, I've been wondering that very same thing for quite awhile. Between all of her "life experiences" and posting diatribes on the message board, lord only knows when she finds time to take care of her family.

But without her your lives would be incomplete as you would have nothing to complain about. That one about major metro areas did catch my eye as I remember baby from the now defunct gannet (Wausau Paper) forum or some such and her residence as Marshfield. She was equally comprehensive in her anecdotal recountings there as well. Such is the variety of human perception and experience. It's better than living in a prison camp (I think).

Deb, Were you here back in the days of the mega-volt transmission line posts? If so, do you remember "Raptor"? The rants died when there was no response to his/her random posts trying to support the power companies or agitate the posters who opposed the transmission line.

Originally posted by baby: Haley--You CAN survive pregnancy, and some STD's are for LIFE (at least currently). I know someone got an incurable STD from a guy who never told her. One of my aunts also got AIDS and wishes she "never had sex" after her husband died (again, because infected people never tell the truth when they know it Despite my past "experiences", at least I do not have any incurable diseases and I can still have children. When you get AIDS, that's it, any unborn or future baby gets the AIDS, too, and so will your future sex partners if you are irresponsible; it's not even like some other diseases where you can actually protect the baby from getting them.

And this is exactly why I am all for thorough birth control education! Thank you kindly for backing up my point

Unfortunately she makes quite a few generalizations. All people with AIDS never tell (implying that those who have unsafe sex are untrustworthy), all black people have problems with Planned Parenthood (however, I'm not sure how race was even relevant), and all religious critics hate Jesus (defensive, aren't we?). My, oh my.

Apologies for dredging up a thread about an event which has passed, but I thought some of you might be interested in reading this article about Crisis Pregnancy Centers, given that Ms. Stenzel was once the director of one.

I keep hearing pro-lifers telling me that. Why do they all assume that I think every baby should aborted? I'm anti-abortion too. I just think that it is a necessary evil and that to eradicate it, one must look to other ways of it instead of outlawing it (which makes it worse for not only the fetus, but the woman as well.)

You and the writer portray pro-life clinics like they are Nazis.

Seriously, can people not talk about abortion and automatically bring up the Holocaust? Two. Different. Things. To compare abortion to the Holocaust is offensive. These clinics, the ones in the article, that present false information and such, are the ones I have a guff with. I do not have a problem with BirthRight, for example, who do a wonderful service to women who are pregnant.

I DO, however, have a problem with clinics that do not simply give the results to a pregnancy test, and instead opt to go on a long, guilt-giving lecture about "killing your baby".

Aborted babies do look like that in the photos, you can't deny that truthfully.

Aborted pregnancies. Get it straight. Most of the photos, like the ones pictured here, are not depictions of the norms of abortion. Sure, some may look like that, but you have to keep in mind that almost NINETY PERCENT of all abortions take place in the first trimester. The photos pro-lifers are always waving around are of miscarriages or stillbirths in the eighth and ninth months. Don't believe everything you see.

Note that these images are gory to many people, so keep that in mind before you click. THIS is not a seven-week abortion. THIS is an eight-week abortion.

Requiring one side to provide referrels and not making the other side present information that is opposite is hypocritical and I wouldn't demand PP to do it,

Then tell me why there is a mandatory lecture that every woman must recieve before her abortion. In Wisconsin, a woman must go through a state-mandated lecture that provides information on all options a woman has besides abortion. The state is pro-life too, and if you knew and understood our state laws regarding pre-abortion counseling, you wouldn't be talking off the top of your head.

(but interesting did not like late-term abortion in the third trimester)

To be honest, I do not support a third trimester abortion, but they don't just happen for fun. Women aren't just going out and getting abortions on a Saturday afternoon because they're bored. Third trimester abortions, which account for a very tiny percentage of all abortions, are needed in such cases when the woman's life is at risk or the baby that comes out of her will only live for a very short time.

but not one of them called babies in the early stages "blobs of tissue" and even corrected me when I asked if they were.

They are not babies in the early stages. They are zygotes, then embryos, then fetuses, and then neonates. Then, they are infants, toddlers, and so on. If you're going to talk to a doctor, he's talking down to you because you are not in the medical field. Of course he'll call it a baby. However, if you want to argue abortion, you need to learn the correct terms before sinking to using emotionally-stirring terms to get your own way.

What I learned in a public university Anatomy and Physiology class in the 90's did not teach that, either.

All this due to a speaker visiting Tomahawk. In that regard, not living in Tomahawk any longer I did not have the opportunity to hear Ms. Stenzel. However, by the newspaper account I did not see anything that she had to say that hasn't been said over and over again. Of course not actually hearing her could I or should I pass judgement. The opinion I did form from the newspaper account was "lame". Correct me if I'm wrong.