i want to see smaller features, to be honest, the average rider at dagmar, well sucks, the average kid struggles sliding the 20 foot box... so what I would like to see is alot of smaller features, low boxes and rails, kinked boxes, and a wide variety of jumps... but mostly what I care about is flow, ideally I would roll up to big daddy and there would be a line of a few small boxes, a few jumps, and a box or two at the end.... basically i think they should tone down the jibs, because the ones they have built in the past(like the rainbox and kinky hippo) are almost never hit because there two hard for the average rider.. so yah smaller simpler stuff.. then once the average rider gets better on these less intimidating features, then we can start building tougher stuff

make a nice big jump. the closest hill for me that is good for night riding is between, glen eden and dagmar. i havent been to dagmar. but glen eden has no jumps that are decent. so make a nice big jump and ill be there all the time.

what i want to see is:
a) a flowly line of 3 jumps.. just one to another to another..
b) jib wise.. i think kinked boxes would be sick. (good ones tho) if you plan on making something like the "f-d or "a" frame this year.. save yourself the money.

c) get rid of that fucking pipe, this fits into A) .. keep that first jump there, but add 2 more where the pipe was.

amen... 3 of the jumps in a row down big daddy(i.e. 3 identical to that first jump rite next the lift) then on the left hand side(where the second jump used to be) put all the jibs in there.. so just have a nice flowly set of jibs... and on the last of the 3 tables.. build a snowbox as an option beside it

everyone's throwin a lot of good ideas around. i agree with the whole gettin rid of the pipe idea...it was and is a complete waste of space. Also it'd be wicked to see some time put into planning the table/jump locations so you have enough speed to get 2-3 decent hits in a line.

as for jibs....put em whereever there's space and make em flow (easier said then done i know) but in my opinion jumps should be #1 on the to do list

just make it flowy, like smaller jumps, but 3 in a row, and make it so you can hit rails and jumps in the same run, get it smooth you know, like if you got a flat down, dont put a battleship after it, theyre almost the same rail, its dumb, spread shit out, and give people alot of variety in theyre run

well looks like I'm going to be the terrain park manager at dagmar this season. I just got back from a meeting with the new G.M. and basically they have given me complete control of whats going to go on there.....so we're going to see a whole bunch of new rails and boxes in there, and a complete redesign... (keeping some of the good stuff from last year)so as soon as my contract is up with my current job I will be starting on getting some new stuff built...(boxes, rails, etc) that dont totally suck... I agree that the pipe is a waste so hopefully we can come up with a good plan on what to put there instead
So your input/drawings/pics of things you would like to see is all appreciated, we're also looking at doing some shop sponsored comps throughout the season.... and maybe a rail jam at the open house like Kirby does...

^ no if anything i would say down the pipe...three dope jumps...ummmmmmmmmmmmmm i am drooling at the very thought....

like steve said...really flowy...think about a slopestyle run and how you can make as many hits possible in one line...i am getting a seasons pass so i will be there the whole season.

i would also like to see a urban style hand rail set up///thank would be a nice surprise.

but one MAJOR aspect.there needs to be proper maintenance of lips, kicker landings, all that jazz...without it all lay out designs and features will be pointless...example...last season me and another guy would just grab rakes and shovels and fix lips ourselves on features daily...just so they were hit-able.

anyways i am beyond pumped to ski so it doesnt matter...lol

---------------------------------
-LUCIFER
[/b][/b]
A WATCH THAT IS BLACK

great news that parkbuilder is doing the park, he did TONS of work last year(without being paid for it) and really knows what hes doing when it comes to building... plus hes a skier so you know our needs will be kept in mind(ie no ride ons)... heres what I sketched up:LEGEND
A=Large Drop in, at least 8 feet high ideallyB=First table, hopefully identical in shape and size to the one that was built mid season this yearC=Second Table, similar in shape to the first table but slightly smaller(in order to keep flow)D=Final Table in jump line, on the right is just a small table(seeing as by this point speed wil be low) as well as a "snowbox" option(could just be switched with something simpler, like a "spinner box" where you put a garbage bin in the ground to spin on it.E= Rail at the steep part of big daddy, possibly a down rail, maybe even an urban style as luc suggested to keep things interestingD#2(apparently I cant count)= first set of rail/box.. longest ones should be placed here because this is the spot where you will have the most speed in the rail line other hten first oneF=Second in rail/box line, so will be once again a rail and a box beside eachother giving you the option of either

G= Final rail/box... something smaller and simpler since by this time speed is very low

Final Thoughts= any feedback on this design will be appreaciated but first I would like to explain my choices, one thing I have done that may be contversial is not to have it "slopestyle" format(meaning jumps and rails in one run is difficult) the reason is because after skinig dagmar for many years on many different setups I have realized that having a run of rails and jumps is very difficult do to the lack of vertical and lack of speed... so by seperating jumps and jibs I believe it will allow for better flow(and I mean the hill is 5 seconds long, just alternate every run if you want to do both)... also, i didnt put any design for where the pipe is or where the mini park is, because I have no idea what should go there... so for the park I believe this is the best layout and will allow for the best flow

wow steve, thats exactly what i was saying.. that is PERFECT.. and great news to hear about you matt, i hope we can put aside our past differences and bond together as one ( in as many ways as possible ;) haha) but yeah.. team work is where its at.

and i agree to nomenstevens picture perfectly, how ever the jibs FEATURES could be altered.

1) it would be SICK to get together a jam for the open house (like kirby) .. that would be sick.

2) as for new features, you are asking us what we want, so i will answer as to whatt
-s box. but dont really even try to do this unless the time and quality of materials are put into it, or else it will be as shitty as everthing there now and will be a total waste of time.
- f-d-f box hit one of these in tremblant and loved it.
- one LONG WIDE box. something like atleast 3 ft wide, and like an actual 50 ft long. something that works for everyone, this would work for a begginer to straigh slide, for an intermedite to learn sw ups and such, and an expert to use the principle of balance to perfect there skills of easy spotting spinning on, multiple switch ups, and spins off. THere was one of these in avila and it was the greatest thing ever everyone loved it.
- a snow box. never hit one, they seem cool, no need to be huge, just something new and fun.

i really like what steve has come up with.. it was pretty much exactly what i was thinking.. i would like to see the pipe taken out concidering it was shitty and no one ever used it.. i would also like to see cool boxs that arnt rediculusly hard.. such as a f-d-f or something similar.. and a good arrange of rails

good feedback guys, hopefully my design this year is taken seriously, because I truelly think it would be a significant improvement...Replies:anti-mogal*- I like your idea about having an uprail on the landing, spacing would have to be adjusted(make sure peopel don't try to gap to it and die haha) as well as it couldn't be on the first or second table because it would kill the flow/speed.. however, if the snox box couldnt happen(wouldnt surprise me) then a feature like that at the end would defintly be rad...

I8van*- You have a point, many kids stop between features, its a hastle... but I believe that if the rails/boxes were built on large rollers and were quick after another then kids would hit them all in row, mainly because the reason they stop is to watch/film there friends, but if the rails were all in that one area, it would be easy to film and you would get less kids stopping then say if you put the rails rite besdie the jump....

because really, the rail garden would be relatively low speed, while the jump line would obviously be max speed... so by seperating them i believe it gets rid of the clogging issue....

the park we are proposing would be great, if tehre were only experienced riders, but if you look at dagmar riders, alot of them are little kids who go in the park just because they have a snowboard... and thats what cool snowboarders do.

dont forget about the crazy winds we experienced last year and how its gonna be impossible to hit any rails if there's no way to gain speed right before them.

its dagmar we are talking about, remember 64 vertical metres... a line of rails and jumps is nearly impossibly to have it very flowly, in the past with only one or two jumps in a row speed has always been an issue so by sepearting them flow will be ALOT better, and remember, you can always hit the first table, and cut over and hit the rails... or just alternate every lap, I mean the laps take only like 15 seconds, so just alternate rail jump rail jump... pretty easy to get variety when the laps are so short....

but yeah, i think in the past the whole "slopestyle" setup we have aimed for(that your suggesting) just hasnt worked.. i REALLY hope matt considers my design, because the only way were going to get a park with good flow is by having a high speed line(i.e. all jumps) and a low speed line(i.e. all rails/boxes)

and to address ivans issue with wind, he has an EXCELLENT point, but i think by having the jumps one after another wind will be cut down(since you will be in the trenches if you will) and by putting the rails on fair sized rollers, as well as a large drop in at the top, I don't think speed will be an issue

Well burke it looks like u got ur hands full with all these kids tell you what they want. well thats cool and shit congs for what u got. well man i knwo you not the biggest fan of me and what not but if u need help man im here to lend you a helping hand

hey boys... so I'm liking what I see.. .I'm leaning in the same direction, I'm pretty sure a jump line and a rail line is the way to go.

I would need 2 take offs on each table so to have an intermediate and expert jump line.... Snow Valley will be setup as a proper mini park so....not too sure how to make shit work on that part of the hill because it's so flat...

I need some input on what sort of rails and boxes we want, I think the battleship box we should keep, and a couple of others, but we can toss the rest and start again, like I'm talking 15 rails that I will get built before the season starts, and we can switch them up periodically throughout the season...to keep things fresh. Urban style down rail...done. thinking something along the lines of an 's box', whatever is fun and will attract people, I want it to be sick this year, and fun for everyone.

peace...
and stewy you're fine.

nice job on the diagram steve, I'm going to make the drop in GIANT but it needs to be huge so you can get speed for the booter line....like the one at MSLM maybe look in to a boardercross start gate thing (like mslm has)

Still on the fence with the halfpipe.... i could fill it full of snow and make it flat, or put a jump at it....rails.. i dont know... think of what we can do with that space to fully take advantage of it.

sounds sick man, I am glad you like seperating the lines, I know its kind of a tough concept but just amagining a booter line at dagmar is very nice... and 2 lips for the jumps is great, more work then I even thought.. as far as the half pipe goes, I think its a waste of snow to fill it in, so maybe just fill it with beginner rails or something, or cut it and just waste the space this year

as far as boxes/rails go, i personally think they should be even and heres what I think every medium to large park needs:

Small box(like 10 feet long, foot wide)
Small rail(like 10 feet long)
Large Box(like 25-20 feet long, and 2 feet wide)
Large rail(like the flatbar we already have is perfect)

Flat Down Box(similar in size to what we have now but set up better)
A-Frame Rail(relatively small, this is the palce to learn switch ups)

Down Flat Down Box(similar to what blue has, about a foot wide, and relatively long)
Whale Rail(meaning its basically a rainbow, then a lil up at the end to spin off of)

Rainbow Box(pretty small, good learning rail)
Rainbow Rail(similar to what we have now, just once again, set up properly)

Urban Style Setup(put a box and a rail with stairs in the middle if possible)

So thats 11, which I think is more then enough, and we already have 3-4 of them in working condition....

as for the pipe, this is what i think you should do. cut off half of each wall (of hte dirt as of right now) from both sides, simply move it into the hollow of hte pipe and level it out. then it will be all flat, and you can throw another jump there, or excess jibs or what ever.

oh wait burke i forgot to add something there congratulations on your new job. but we all know the only rails/boxes we should keep are only the battleship maybe the kinky hippo unless u have a crazy idea like cut the hippo part off and put it in the babby park as a little flat down rail.the flat bar i guess but pretty much everthing else could and SHOULD go and if you can get that rainbow rail out of there well good luck man i hope you have a huge fucking tractor.And with steves 4th grade drawing well steve the rail line looks dope but the jump line would be tooo crowded i believe and the snowbox thing i dont know if burke wants to put the time and effor into that thing (unless you want to spend your life on it matt ) but as the drop in yea man make her fucking huge remeber the 3 days last season when it was the biggest hill around here even bigger than dagmar yea bigger than that thing. well im done running my mouth i think so yea if you want now you can rip on my shit Peace

another thing to discuss is whether people like step-down style or pure table-top style...or a giant roller with a take-off (similar to the on at the top of b-diddy like last year)...I personally like step-down style...but the roller seemed to work well last year...step-downs are good because you can always change size of take easily as well as change length from take-off to landing quite easily...

I personall like the roller style they built for one key reason, speed/flow... its alot easier to keep your speed with a high landing like the roller style has.. however, that being said, there will 3 tables remember, so the first one/ or the first two could be this style to help you keep speed, but the last table could mix it up and do something totally differnet...