so for those of you who would definitely choose Harvard over Yale, why would you? So far it seems like people on other threads have mainly emphasized the power of the Harvard name outside the legal world or really specific classes like Cyber Law. Are there other reasons why you would pick Harvard over Yale or Stanford?

chelita wrote:so for those of you who would definitely choose Harvard over Yale, why would you? So far it seems like people on other threads have mainly emphasized the power of the Harvard name outside the legal world or really specific classes like Cyber Law. Are there other reasons why you would pick Harvard over Yale or Stanford?

I think alumni base is another consideration for some people. Having so many connections can't be a bad thing. Also, the size of Harvard provides an opportunity for specialized faculty in an extremely wide range of specialties. So, lots of clinics, courses, professors, students etc. And not only do they offer the course, but they probably have the leading professor in the area teaching it. Some people prefer the small class size, but I think the large size has a lot of advantages.

chelita wrote:so for those of you who would definitely choose Harvard over Yale, why would you? So far it seems like people on other threads have mainly emphasized the power of the Harvard name outside the legal world or really specific classes like Cyber Law. Are there other reasons why you would pick Harvard over Yale or Stanford?

I think alumni base is another consideration for some people. Having so many connections can't be a bad thing. Also, the size of Harvard provides an opportunity for specialized faculty in an extremely wide range of specialties. So, lots of clinics, courses, professors, students etc. And not only do they offer the course, but they probably have the leading professor in the area teaching it. Some people prefer the small class size, but I think the large size has a lot of advantages.

+1

there are other reasons too that may be more specific from person to person. for example, the chances of my SO going to New Haven = very low, but the chances she'd end up at Boston is much higher. I also prefer Boston over New Haven.

The idea of small section sizes that are tight together appeals to me, especially when its embedded within a larger university that offers a diverse array of courses to choose from. bigger class sizes = more peers = more connections. it makes a lot of sense to me. If I got into both Y and H (hah! lol), i'd choose H (thus the reason why im not even going to bother filling out the Yale app lol).

-Harvard's international law program is amazing and destroys Yale's hands down. Moreover, Harvard's name in the international arena will give you much more weight than Yale's.-Harvard is moving aggressively to take the spotlight away from Yale, look at the recent Professors that have been hired.-Boston is probably the best city in the U.S (sorry NYC). Spending 3 years in New Haven is not an enticing prospect at all whatsoever.-Harvard is closing the gap on Yale's "Relaxed atmosphere" advantage by eliminating grading, adding new activities, etc.-Harvard is building the Northwest Corner.-Cross-listed classes with the JFK School of Government= Enormous plus. I am looking forward to taking a lot of those cross-listed courses. Try to find something at Yale/Stanford that resembles the JFK school of government and you will not find anything. The closest thing is Princeton's Woodrow Wilson school....-Harvard Law Journal = #1 always.

ETC, ETC, ETC.

Overall I just see Harvard hungry to regain that top spot, and I can't seen them ever falling behind. Yale is amazing, no doubt, but Harvard will always be the center of U.S law, U.S News notwithstanding.

-Harvard's international law program is amazing and destroys Yale's hands down. Moreover, Harvard's name in the international arena will give you much more weight than Yale's.-Harvard is moving aggressively to take the spotlight away from Yale, look at the recent Professors that have been hired.-Boston is probably the best city in the U.S (sorry NYC). Spending 3 years in New Haven is not an enticing prospect at all whatsoever.-Harvard is closing the gap on Yale's "Relaxed atmosphere" advantage by eliminating grading, adding new activities, etc.-Harvard is building the Northwest Corner.-Cross-listed classes with the JFK School of Government= Enormous plus. I am looking forward to taking a lot of those cross-listed courses. Try to find something at Yale/Stanford that resembles the JFK school of government and you will not find anything. The closest thing is Princeton's Woodrow Wilson school....-Harvard Law Journal = #1 always.

ETC, ETC, ETC.

Overall I just see Harvard hungry to regain that top spot, and I can't seen them ever falling behind. Yale is amazing, no doubt, but Harvard will always be the center of U.S law, U.S News notwithstanding.

Reactions:

1. If by international law you mean international business law, then Harvard certainly outpaces Yale. However, as far as human rights, etc. go, I'm hard pressed to see Harvard ahead of Yale more than marginally.2. Strength/renown of professors is probably equal now, due to Harvard's impressive hiring spree.3. Yeah, New Haven kind of sucks. Cambridge isn't exactly a snazzy area itself but I do like Boston.4. Harvard's HP/P/LP is still not as good as HP/P. One LP 1L year can really do you harm in employment if anecdotes from a couple of Harvard 1L's are reliable.5. The Northwest Corner seems pretty cool. I'd like to see Harvard throw out some really kick-ass new clinics along with it.6. I'm really not sure how much help JFK School of Gov't will be to your law prospects to be totally honest, or at least not much more helpful than classes on international law you might take at Yale or Stanford.7. What?

Very much in disagreement with your final statement.

Yale's pluses:1. COAP kicks the shit out of any other LRAP. It's pretty awesome.2. Yale's class size is 3 times smaller than Harvard's. This means it's about 3 times easier to get on Law Review, easier to get into prestigious clinics/externships, etc.3. As far as prestigious public interest work goes, no one places better than Yale, and Yale seems to make sure that its graduates continue that trend. Yale definitely takes care of its alums (not that Harvard doesn't, but it's easier to keep better track of a smaller alumni base. On the other hand, that means there are 3 times less alumni out waiting to recruit you).

There's a reason Yale and Harvard are #1 and #2 in legal studies. They each have incredible programs. However, I think the way you lay it out at first makes it seem like Harvard is clearly gives better opportunities than Yale. And really, that's not true.

The most annoying thing about a Yale acceptance would be explaining to my friends why I wasn't going to Harvard. Fortunately, most of my friends can grasp the ridiculous advantage of COAP and the idea of having 4% of your graduating class clerk for SCOTUS. I also like the fact that Yale grads are doubly rare in BigLaw due to class size and the high proportion of PI careers.

(Btw, if I do get in at Yale, I'll have to post up my Yale 250. I don't know what I was thinking, except maybe that my PS and Resume were very academically oriented and I felt I needed to show a lighter side. They might just throw my whole app on the fire, but at least I'll go down swinging).

Sorry to bring this conversation back to financial aid, but does anybody know if Harvard will adjust its aid packages for students? For instance I'm concerned that, due to being employed for a number of years and earning a very good salary, Harvard will provide an aid package that is too small--accounting for the salary I have earned so far, but not accounting for the fact that I will no longer be earning it.

(of course I trust Harvard to have a smarter system than that, but just in case...)

So let's say Harvard offers me the standard 33k+ loan and some grants. If that amount doesn't cover the costs of tuition plus room, board, and fees, does anybody know if Harvard would be willing to provide more in loans? I don't mind taking on more loan debt due to general outcomes for HLS alumni, but I am just a bit worried about supporting myself while I'm there.

vyboxvybox wrote:Sorry to bring this conversation back to financial aid, but does anybody know if Harvard will adjust its aid packages for students? For instance I'm concerned that, due to being employed for a number of years and earning a very good salary, Harvard will provide an aid package that is too small--accounting for the salary I have earned so far, but not accounting for the fact that I will no longer be earning it.

(of course I trust Harvard to have a smarter system than that, but just in case...)

So let's say Harvard offers me the standard 33k+ loan and some grants. If that amount doesn't cover the costs of tuition plus room, board, and fees, does anybody know if Harvard would be willing to provide more in loans? I don't mind taking on more loan debt due to general outcomes for HLS alumni, but I am just a bit worried about supporting myself while I'm there.

Everybody can pretty easily get loans to make sure you have the full COL (around 67K) each year the HLS estimates you need so you won't have to worry about obtaining loans if you need them. However, they do expect you to contribute 100% of your assets towards paying for law school.

Yah, I definitely understand that. The only thing I have to base this process on is filing the FAFSA for undergrad and I distinctly remember looking at those numbers and saying "Wha?!?!?" It only factors in your income and your parents income from the previous year with no metric for the current financial situation for the coming year.

I'm sure Harvard has a better system, I just wanted reassurance that I can afford what I've gotten myself into!

vyboxvybox wrote:Yah, I definitely understand that. The only thing I have to base this process on is filing the FAFSA for undergrad and I distinctly remember looking at those numbers and saying "Wha?!?!?" It only factors in your income and your parents income from the previous year with no metric for the current financial situation for the coming year.

I'm sure Harvard has a better system, I just wanted reassurance that I can afford what I've gotten myself into!

Thanks.

I made the mistake of looking at the suggested student budget and nearly had heart failure.....

nixxers wrote:He says the mailing is being sent the Tuesday after Thanksgiving (today), and it will have the login info for the admitted students website. So hopefully we'll get it in a couple days!

Ahh, I was expecting something via email. Just goes to show, even after the JR2, Harvard is messing with my head!!!!

looks like harvard is cutting it's Public Service Initiative, too bad...

I'm not worried at all. They will announce a new plan in March, and in the meantime they're actually increasing our financial aid pool by 2.7 million. They're expanding LIPP, offering twelve new public service fellowships...and the free coffee is back!

looks like harvard is cutting it's Public Service Initiative, too bad...

I'm not worried at all. They will announce a new plan in March, and in the meantime they're actually increasing our financial aid pool by 2.7 million. They're expanding LIPP, offering twelve new public service fellowships...and the free coffee is back!

looks like harvard is cutting it's Public Service Initiative, too bad...

I'm not worried at all. They will announce a new plan in March, and in the meantime they're actually increasing our financial aid pool by 2.7 million. They're expanding LIPP, offering twelve new public service fellowships...and the free coffee is back!

I was wondering how long it would take Josh to respond re: the PSI issue on the admissions blog. Sure enough:--LinkRemoved--

That said, the binder is up on the admitted students site and it kind of sucks... sorry, Josh. I'm sure it's nice in the non-green paper-wasting version.

looks like harvard is cutting it's Public Service Initiative, too bad...

I'm not worried at all. They will announce a new plan in March, and in the meantime they're actually increasing our financial aid pool by 2.7 million. They're expanding LIPP, offering twelve new public service fellowships...and the free coffee is back!

sarcasm?

For once, no. I just threw in the free coffee story b/c I found it funny...evidently the students were raiding faculty and staff coffee before the administration decided to fully reinstate it. I really do everyone is focusing on one negative (0Ls don't know what the new Public Service Initiative will look like) and ignoring all of the small positive efforts HLS is making.

The confusing part is that it just seems too good to be true. Basically, if it takes you seven years to get your PhD, Harvard will treat that like seven years of working at a very low-paying job, and cover all of your loan payments during that time? Someone who's pursuing their own selfish interests (in my case, possibly getting a Philosophy PhD) gets as much money as someone who becomes a public defender?

I wanted to get my PhD anyway, but this makes it seem like it's a free $70k or something. Or more.

For once, no. I just threw in the free coffee story b/c I found it funny...evidently the students were raiding faculty and staff coffee before the administration decided to fully reinstate it. I really do everyone is focusing on one negative (0Ls don't know what the new Public Service Initiative will look like) and ignoring all of the small positive efforts HLS is making.

free coffee is amazing benefit. If I am admitted, I will attend! I must waste like $400 bucks a year at least on coffee.