Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

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Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

The single bullet theory is just that and a lousy theory too that has been disregarded long ago by most most expert assassin researchers. "Back and to the left, Back and to the left," that is the key and you will never explain that away all those WC apologists have been trying for nearly a half century. There is more bullet residue in the two bodies than was missing from that magic bullet that was discovered on a gurney. Experts cannot even agree on where the entrance and exit wounds are. This will continue until the body is exhumed and a proper autopsy is done to determine where those bullets hit and what angle they came from. The Lone Nutters are the first people to oppose this. We might have been able to a make some determination by examining JFK's brain but, guess what, it is missing. A street person would have gotten a better autopsy that JFK did. There was a reason why the SS stole the body before an autopsy could have been performed in Dallas as the law required. They would have had a first rate autopsy team and many of these questions would have been answered long ago...... It was a cover-up at every step. There was never a forensic investigation of the limo. It was already being washed out and evidence was being destroyed at JFK lay dying in the Dallas hospital. People claim to have seen a gun shot hole in the windshield that came from the outside. Where is the windshield? The SS destroyed it. Yes, they could tell it came from the outside because the inside of the windshield was rough to the touch as it should be. If the shot had come from the inside, the windshield would have been rough on the outside.... Where are the records of what Oswald said to the Dallas Police? Oh, no record was kept and there was no recording of his statements. The fix was in.....

And yet the computer forensic analysis I posted traces the bullet right back to the Book Depository Window. It also corrected something that conspiracy theorists often get wrong, which is the position of Kennedy and Connelly in the car.

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

And yet the computer forensic analysis I posted traces the bullet right back to the Book Depository Window. It also corrected something that conspiracy theorists often get wrong, which is the position of Kennedy and Connelly in the car.

I once heard a lawyer explain one of these computer aided and animated forensic analysis (in a totally unrelated case to this). He opined the defense would certainly counter with their own version and really what these were are dueling cartoons. FWIW... So I've always been a bit skeptical of this type of thing after he said that. Everything looks plausible when you paint a picture in a world that the creator controls all the variables and can make any changes deemed necessary to reach a conclusion one way or the other.

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

I once heard a lawyer explain one of these computer aided and animated forensic analysis (in a totally unrelated case to this). He opined the defense would certainly counter with their own version and really what these were are dueling cartoons. FWIW... So I've always been a bit skeptical of this type of thing after he said that. Everything looks plausible when you paint a picture in a world that the creator controls all the variables and can make any changes deemed necessary to reach a conclusion one way or the other.

There are many errors in that production you saw including the actual entrance and exit of the wounds. It isn't even close in actuality and it is generally regarded as a joke....

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

And yet the computer forensic analysis I posted traces the bullet right back to the Book Depository Window. It also corrected something that conspiracy theorists often get wrong, which is the position of Kennedy and Connelly in the car.

That cartoon was not done by a forensic specialists and there are numerous errors in it. This includes the area of entrance and exit wounds on Kennedy. The Governeror and his wife swore for the rest of their lives that the governor was not hit by the same shot as Kennedy but that he was turning around and saw the President with his hands on his throat before he was hit. The video of the shooting also shows this.......

That cartoon was not done by a forensic specialists and there are numerous errors in it. This includes the area of entrance and exit wounds on Kennedy. The Governeror and his wife swore for the rest of their lives that the governor was not hit by the same shot as Kennedy but that he was turning around and saw the President with his hands on his throat before he was hit. The video of the shooting also shows this.......

I believe it to be a single shooter but an expert. I believe he was experiencing what we call tilt fire (has to do witj a cold barrel in windy conditions) causes his shots to be a little off and on what we call his "cold shot" first shot (most inaccurate for a pro) his shots after that we were much more accurate. The bullets weren't anything special and were pretty moveable.

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

I believe it to be a single shooter but an expert. I believe he was experiencing what we call tilt fire (has to do witj a cold barrel in windy conditions) causes his shots to be a little off and on what we call his "cold shot" first shot (most inaccurate for a pro) his shots after that we were much more accurate. The bullets weren't anything special and were pretty moveable.

Acoustic evidence says the last shot game from the grassy knoll...... Also, if there is no single bullet fact (and there is not), there is a conspiracy. It means there had to be at least two shooters which we already know....

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

R. Lee Ermey in full Metal Jacket says it was Oswald. That's good enough for me.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Acoustic evidence says the last shot game from the grassy knoll...... Also, if there is no single bullet fact (and there is not), there is a conspiracy. It means there had to be at least two shooters which we already know....

O I believe there is a conspiracy, it was a pro but acoustic evidence isn't a definitive science it's a theory. Surprise it wasn't from a military type rifle or could it have?!?? The rounds are interchangeable.

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

Guess I should make it official...

Lone gunman and it was Lee Harvey Oswald. The job at the School Book Depository was only temporary and the man who hired Oswald had no affiliation with the mafia, Cubans, Russians, or LBJ supporters. Just by bad fate did Oswald get hired and had the opportunity to be in a perfect position for the shooting. I believe history points out the route for Kennedy through Dallas wasn't even known until a week before the assassination. So that's pretty good that evil forces were able to do their best in getting Oswald hired there slightly over a month before the shooting and use their clairvoyant skills to know the parade route would eventually take the President past the buidling. I don't buy it.

Simply Oswald had a skewed view of the United States, had a problem getting a job, knew this job was short, and was pissed off at the world. When you see some of the venom displayed in today's politics this doesn't surprise me.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

Lone gunman and it was Lee Harvey Oswald. The job at the School Book Depository was only temporary and the man who hired Oswald had no affiliation with the mafia, Cubans, Russians, or LBJ supporters. Just by bad fate did Oswald get hired and had the opportunity to be in a perfect position for the shooting. I believe history points out the route for Kennedy through Dallas wasn't even known until a week before the assassination. So that's pretty good that evil forces were able to do their best in getting Oswald hired there slightly over a month before the shooting and use their clairvoyant skills to know the parade route would eventually take the President past the buidling. I don't buy it.

Simply Oswald had a skewed view of the United States, had a problem getting a job, knew this job was short, and was pissed off at the world. When you see some of the venom displayed in today's politics this doesn't surprise me.

There were plans to kill Kennedy in other cities including Miami. There may have been many Oswalds (Patsies) set up around Dallas and they used LHO because he was working in the TSBD. Or, the route may have been changed to accomodate where the assassination was to take place. Many protocols were brokern by picking that route. The car had to slow more than was allowed to make the corner. The roofs and open windows on the route were not checked. The evidence was destroyed or tampered with. The real question is whether LHO fired any shots at all. We know from the acoustic evidence (and that is not a theory but accepted in courts) that the kill shot came from the grassy knoll. The films verify from JFK's reaction that this is where the shot came from. The SS stole the body when the autopsy should have been done in Dallas by law. Dallas had an expert team available. The autopsy performed on JFK was less that would be given to a street person. Evidence is missing from that autopsy and there are many claims that the photos were doctored. Certainly, they did not reflect the wounds that the doctors in Dallas recalled....... Conspiracy. Not to say that LHO was not involved but he didn't act alone. Remember, he was a terrible shot. He missed General Walker from 100 feet and Walker was stationary in a chair at the time. The Carcano was a junk weapon. No one could have hit anything using the scope. It had to be shimmed by an expert to get it zero'd in. The rifle was also not zero'd in on the metal sights. It would have shot high and to the right the way it was found. That is why no expert could ever use that rifle to duplicate the shooting. Most of them could not even work the bolt action quickly enough without aiming at all.......

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

I believe that the Zapruder film is the most horrifying thing I have ever seen. Jackie scrambling to pick up pieces of his brain was particularly jarring.

We had an elective in my junior high that I took called "History Mysteries" where we must have watched the Zapruder film 100 times. Really creepy.

Anyway, I don't really know what happened that day, but I've always found it hard to believe that the government could cover something like this up. Too many inept individuals, but it could have been a conspiracy outside of the government for sure. Do I know that LHO was a lone gunman? A patsy? Etc? No, but I do think it's hard to believe it was just a disgruntled dude in a libaray who was a really good shot. Something else was going on that day, just don't think the government was behind it. However pinning it on one guy LHO is certainly less messy for everyone involved and IMO was probably viewed as the easiest way for the country to move on. If you had pinned on the mob, the Cubans, Russians, whatever it would have become an even bigger national crisis, pinning it on one disgruntled individual made it cleaner, so in that sense I do think the government may have done something on that end, but I don't believe they were behind the planning or execution.

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

We had an elective in my junior high that I took called "History Mysteries" where we must have watched the Zapruder film 100 times. Really creepy.

Anyway, I don't really know what happened that day, but I've always found it hard to believe that the government could cover something like this up. Too many inept individuals, but it could have been a conspiracy outside of the government for sure. Do I know that LHO was a lone gunman? A patsy? Etc? No, but I do think it's hard to believe it was just a disgruntled dude in a libaray who was a really good shot. Something else was going on that day, just don't think the government was behind it. However pinning it on one guy LHO is certainly less messy for everyone involved and IMO was probably viewed as the easiest way for the country to move on. If you had pinned on the mob, the Cubans, Russians, whatever it would have become an even bigger national crisis, pinning it on one disgruntled individual made it cleaner, so in that sense I do think the government may have done something on that end, but I don't believe they were behind the planning or execution.

I agree with you but they were behind the cover-up for national security reasons.....

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

Dude, we can't keep half of our national security issue secrets a secret.

The only way to Keep a secret is to make sure you are the only one who knows it and everyone else who may know is dead. sorry I don't buy a conspiracy where the government has to cover so much up

They have been exposed doing it over and over again. The records are set to be released in 2017. Do you really think the entire records will be released? It only takes a small group within the government to cover anything up. We finally found out who deep throat was even though three people knew the truth. I don't think you would pry a secret out of the CIA. I don't think the government was in on the assassination but they were certainly in on the cover-up. Earl Warren was given direct orders to find LHO was the lone assassin for national security reasons (preventing WWIII).

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

This debate has brought back so many memories of my parents arguing with the cousins, aunts, and uncles at the family thanksgiving. I think they debated this for 5 thanksgivings in a row. I just played with my GI Joes and snuck in the kitchen and eat all the pumpkin pie I wanted.

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

I don't think you would pry a secret out of the CIA. I don't think the government was in on the assassination but they were certainly in on the cover-up. Earl Warren was given direct orders to find LHO was the lone assassin for national security reasons (preventing WWIII).

Valery plane (or whatever her name is) would disagree with you.

I will admit deep throat was a good example, but I think thats more a rartity than then norm

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

Dude, we can't keep half of our national security issue secrets a secret.

The only way to Keep a secret is to make sure you are the only one who knows it and everyone else who may know is dead. sorry I don't buy a conspiracy where the government has to cover so much up

Let me make the counter argument- There's all kinds of allegedly leaked information out there. Overall, as Americans we've just chosen not to believe it, simply remain skeptical, or figure that's the way it is and nothing we can do about.

There's always the age old question that unfolds when a coverup is exposed: "Why the coverup? Just admit mistakes were made and move on. Coverups never work". But is that true? Or is the reason there is the occasional exposed scandal mean that they actually DO work and the law of averages just catches up with a few here and there? It's not like we have a running track record of the ones that worked.

And then look at history.... History is littered with things that were exposed many, many, many years later. Ideas that were at the time scoffed at have later either been proven to have been true, or had the likelihood greatly increased by either new information and/or new technology.

Lastly, wouldn't the government work harder to conceal aspects of a conspiracy to assassinate Kennedy over some smaller incident with much less at stake? Wouldn't the threats to keep quiet be more serious, the disinformation campaign more thorough, the reasons why to have it all wrapped in a nice package for public consumption ASAP a paramount concern... even over the truth?

And it doesn't have to be that the government was behind the event. It could be some in the government had info they refused to act upon (for whatever reason). Or it could be some government connected individuals sowed the seeds to make it happen and leaked info that was used by other groups. Or it could just be that the first thing that was decided behind closed doors was to wrap this up ASAP and sweep any loose ends under the rug. Give the American public a neat and tidy narrative, blame the 'lone nut', deflect any and all blame away from anyone else or foreign governments whether connected or not. Let Americans go to bed that night thinking their government was just the same as the day before and under no threat.

And using death to keep the story controlled is always a viable option. Oswald didn't have much time to tell his version of the story before he was killed.

IOW... all the elements you'd look for are here.

Nuntius was right for a while. I was wrong for a while. But ultimately I was right and Frank Vogel has been let go.

------

"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, thatís teamwork."

The Following User Says Thank You to Bball For This Useful Post:

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

See now I've gone an changed my mind again. Funny how we can have a relationship with China, Russia, or about any country with exception to North Korea and..... Cuba. Been a long time and just maybe we can't bring ourselves to work with Fidel since secretly the government knows Castro was behind everything.

You know how hippos are made out to be sweet and silly, like big cows, but are actually extremely dangerous and can kill you with stunning brutality? The Pacers are the NBA's hippos....Matt Moore CBS Sports....

Re: Do you believe that the assassination of President Kennedy was a conspiracy or lone gunman...

You assume the government has the capacity to keep anything a secret.

I am not saying they have never done it, I am saying if it has happened IMO it is a rarity. And as for information being leaked, I guess the governemnt is really good at helping us "regular" folks discredit the theories I have seen for other events....or they get really lucky as all the leaks are out to bat **** crazy nut bags