I don't really get this comic, I installed OpenBSD in twenty minutes (granted i messed up the first time round, but all the configs were saved so the second install took about 5 minutes of hitting enter) and I've yet to have a single problem

I registered to say that this comic accurately describes my adventures trying to fix an old computer over the past week (except for the shark attack part, and I was trying to install XP or Ubuntu, whichever I could get to work (it turned out that the system decided to stop recognizing/booting from the CD drive and nothing worked))

Albert Schweitzer wrote:There are two means of refuge from the misery of life — music and cats.

My guess is legacy reputation. Back about a million years ago (circa 1994), it was the only thing on the planet that could do what it could do. It really was like magic, back then. I still have a bootable DOS floppy with PQMAGIC.EXE version 4.0 on it around somewhere... not that I've used it in years. But back when OS/2 still seemed like a good idea, Partition Magic was da bomb.

These days, of course, most OSes include native partition and filesystem resizing tools. Even Microsoft Windows (with Vista). For those that don't, the Free bootable tools do a fine job, as you note. But a lot of people in the Microsoft world are conditioned on having to pay something for all their software, so they go looking for something to buy. Partition Magic's old reputation is still carrying weight, even though Symantec bought PowerQuest and turned all their products into sh*t.

I can relate to this. I can count the number of Linux distros that I've managed to install properly on one hand, and the ones that have worked perfectly thereafter on zero (Ubuntu came close, but I never did get my tablet working, and the sound inexplicably died after the first week).

wing wrote:They all have access to each other's partitions, and don't interfere at all.

Wait, you mean Vista is able to access the Linuxes too? Dang. That is impressive. (Moreso if it's because the Linuxes are running on NTFS drives, because that means they've flawlessly reverse-engineered it and that we're one step closer to never having to use stupid FAT32 on Flash drives again).

cephalopod9 wrote:Only on Xkcd can you start a topic involving Hitler and people spend the better part of half a dozen pages arguing about the quality of Operating Systems.

I can relate, except it wasn't with OS installing, it was trying to get my DS flash cartridge to save properly. Within several hours of attempts it went from not saving properly, to booting to the gameboy advanced part of the firmware, to not booting the firmware at all (apparently the latest firmware couldn't boot when you had a Kingston 2GB SD card.). I did manage to get it working in the end, but not after reformatting my SD card 6 times or so, twice with each file system...And borrowing a floormate's generic 16mb SD card that came with her camera, and also losing at least an hour of a game because I thought it was saving properly, but then it deleted it...

Still having troubles because the firmware I have doesn't work right so I need to patch everything perfectly, and for some reason re-downloading the patch because it stops working after some number of uses...

a5an0 wrote:1.OS X uses the Darwin kernel, which is based (mostly) on FreeBSD. Then there are parts from NEXT, etc. OpenBSD originally came from NetBSD, but is quite different now, So the answer to #1 is no.

I can relate, except it wasn't with OS installing, it was trying to get my DS flash cartridge to save properly. Within several hours of attempts it went from not saving properly, to booting to the gameboy advanced part of the firmware, to not booting the firmware at all (apparently the latest firmware couldn't boot when you had a Kingston 2GB SD card.). I did manage to get it working in the end, but not after reformatting my SD card 6 times or so, twice with each file system...And borrowing a floormate's generic 16mb SD card that came with her camera, and also losing at least an hour of a game because I thought it was saving properly, but then it deleted it...

Still having troubles because the firmware I have doesn't work right so I need to patch everything perfectly, and for some reason re-downloading the patch because it stops working after some number of uses...

Which cartridge would that be? Some of them are just cheap junk.

poxic wrote:You suck. And simultaneously rock. I think you've invented a new state of being.

Steve the Pocket wrote:I can relate to this. I can count the number of Linux distros that I've managed to install properly on one hand, and the ones that have worked perfectly thereafter on zero (Ubuntu came close, but I never did get my tablet working, and the sound inexplicably died after the first week).

wing wrote:They all have access to each other's partitions, and don't interfere at all.

Wait, you mean Vista is able to access the Linuxes too? Dang. That is impressive. (Moreso if it's because the Linuxes are running on NTFS drives, because that means they've flawlessly reverse-engineered it and that we're one step closer to never having to use stupid FAT32 on Flash drives again).

Whoops. I forgot about Vista (I don't use it for anything but Vista-specific presentations because it runs like a dog). No working EXT3 driver for that yet

Theoretically I could run a Linux on NTFS, though. It'd hate life because everything would effectively be chmod 777 (the usable ntfs drivers don't support permissions). But NTFS support, aside from the security features, is more or less complete and stable - so running Linux on NTFS should be simpler than running it on ISO9660 (CD). I don't think there's a distro in the land that comes with native NTFS support (particularly on the installation media) whose automatic setup app would let me install to an NTFS partition, though. So it'd have to either be a roll-your-own, or a bootstrapped setup involving installing to an EXT partition, and then moving it to the NTFS partition, and twerking the bootloader. I think I should try this. I'm probably forgetting one or two niggly little "gotchas" but on the surface it seems like it'd work (and be stupid. But it'd work)

I AM A SEXY, SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!

Akula wrote:Our team has turned into this hate-fueled juggernaut of profit. It's goddamn wonderful.

Can ntfs-3g be compiled into the kernel though? I know the one in ubuntu runs in userspace via fuse... which isn't exactly helpful for using it for the boot filesystem... but I dunno if that's how ntfs-3g works, or just how the ubuntu people have packaged it...

phlip wrote:Can ntfs-3g be compiled into the kernel though? I know the one in ubuntu runs in userspace via fuse... which isn't exactly helpful for using it for the boot filesystem... but I dunno if that's how ntfs-3g works, or just how the ubuntu people have packaged it...

NTFS-3G FAQ wrote:Can I boot Linux from NTFS?Yes. For example by using LILO, the same way as with any other filesystem: copy the Linux boot files to NTFS, configure /etc/lilo.conf then run lilo.

So, swap Grub in because lilo sucks, and that's it. Which is somewhat confusing, because my limited understanding is that the ntfs-3g driver is a library that has to be read off the disk, but if it's on the disk that it's required to read....

That said, I could always make the ntfs-3g lib it's own little ext3 partition if it's a problem

I must experiment with this later.

I AM A SEXY, SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!

Akula wrote:Our team has turned into this hate-fueled juggernaut of profit. It's goddamn wonderful.

Steve the Pocket wrote:Wait, you mean Vista is able to access the Linuxes too?

Haven't tried it under Vista (haven't really tried Vista, much), but I've used explore2fs to access my Linux partitions from XP. It's a fairly self-contained program, so it has a good chance of working with Vista. A Google search for "ext2 windows" yields lots more promising looking matches. That includes some IFS (installable file system) drivers. Those might be trickier with Vista, since they're fairly low-level.

Linuxes are running on NTFS drives, because that means they've flawlessly reverse-engineered it

I wouldn't want to run the system on it, but there is a FUSE (filesystem in user space) package that uses the native Windows drivers to enable fairly reliable access to NTFS from Linux. http://www.linux-ntfs.org/

one step closer to never having to use stupid FAT32 on Flash drives again

I suspect we'll be stuck with FAT for a long time to come. It has become the "lingua franca" for interchangeable data storage. Kinda like ASCII -- 40 years later, we're still living with that legacy, despite the advantages of Unicode.

----

wing wrote:Which is somewhat confusing, because my limited understanding is that the ntfs-3g driver is a library that has to be read off the disk, but if it's on the disk that it's required to read....

initrd (initial ram disk). You build a small filesystem image which contains the kernel modules and userland utilities to get your root filesystem up and running. At boot time, the boot loader (GRUB, LILO, LOADLIN, whatever) loads the initrd image -- along with the kernel image file -- into memory. When the kernel starts running, it finds the initrd already in memory, mounts it, and uses it to get the "real" root mounted.

This is how distros can ship a fully modular kernel, even if the root disk needs a driver module. During kernel install, it automagically builds a initrd for your disk controller. One could do the same with the NTFS kit. (Like you say, it would be stupid, but it sounds like a neat party trick. (Assuming you're at the right kind of party, of course.))

Strictly speaking, ext2IFS works on Vista, it just has to be installed under XP compatibility mode. I was able to fully use all of my linux files under Vista. (Note:It does NOT maintain permissions, so I highly recommend you do not go moving stuff around.)

Intamin wrote:Maybe it's b/c it's one at night, but I don't really get the last frame. How do they go from a room to the middle of shark infested waters? And why?

That's the point. Something went horribly, horribly wrong.

Also, I really like using italics.

Strangely enough, so do I.

This comic is great. It always seems to follow this pattern for myself, as well. I start at point A, notice something wrong with B, and by the end am trying to figure out why X doesn't like AA interacting with F.

Gods, it's true. I knew it when I read it yesterday, but given the trials of the past day, it rings ever truer.

My progression went something like this:

- I want a version of linux that boots up fast to dual boot on my laptop.- Well, I can't resize my NTFS partition for some reason, but I do have this handy SD drive!- All of the standard distros I've used before are too big for my 512MB drive. I guess I'll go with a minimalized Gentoo.- Well, I can't really get the card to boot itself, but if I use a LiveCD and work from there, I should be able to pull something off.- Every time I want to amend something, I have to start over completely, but if I can just do this right, I'll have a generic system and kernel that I can replace later.- Maybe if I try a different filesystem, GRUB can pick up the partition...- If I can just get GRUB to recognize that the device exists, it doesn't matter if the kernel works or not; I can compile a new one and replace it.

And now I'm giving up and going to bed. I didn't even get ??? or Profit! out of this.

Short for "Oh crap, Sea-Raptors!" but since one can't say most of that before getting devoured, it is shortened.

Installing Ubuntu on my Thinkpad Z61 went pretty well once I told it to just format a partition with the largest unused contiguous space.Using it has a few issues. OpenOffice dies after a few minutes each time I try to run it. I think that is connected with the fact that the Intel 945 GM Integrated Graphics Card apparently has an incomplete driver. A lot of 3D effects don't look quite right.

http://qdb.us/46095 wrote:<xkcd> okay, I've got a 6GB partition free, I'm gonna put in a FreeBSD disk and boot and see if I can install. Anyone have any advice?<Socket7> have you made a will yet?<-- xkcd has quit (wish me luck)[30 minutes pass]--> xkcd_ (xkcd@hide-BF9D384C.centrl01.va.comcast.net) has joined #pugglewump<xkcd> let us never speak of this 'FreeBSD incident' again.

I reminded myself of this today. I tried to install a fan for my RAM yesterday, which somehow caused my liquid cooling to spring a leak in the waterblock, which dripped on the video card and motherboard causing the video card to malfunction, which caused a crash while the hard drive was writing. Right now i'm writing this from my dad's laptop, with the guts of my computer all around me (uninstalling liquid cooling is a bitch), trying to get something out of the warranties. I've got my eye out for sharks at this point.

Start out young thinking your brilliant new ideas will make you uniquely rich and famous. Then settle for just being an excellent example of an ordinarily prestigious profession. Then settle for being an ordinary example of that prestigious profession. Then settle for getting into that prestigious profession. Then settle for just any career that will let you live an ordinary quiet life. Then settle for any career that gives you any hope of possibly settling into something resembling an ordinary quiet life by some time before you die. Eventually settle for making ends meet just a little bit longer so you don't die quite yet.

Pfhorrest wrote:It just struck me what a perfect metaphor for life this comic is.

Start out young thinking your brilliant new ideas will make you uniquely rich and famous. Then settle for just being an excellent example of an ordinarily prestigious profession. Then settle for being an ordinary example of that prestigious profession. Then settle for getting into that prestigious profession. Then settle for just any career that will let you live an ordinary quiet life. Then settle for any career that gives you any hope of possibly settling into something resembling an ordinary quiet life by some time before you die. Eventually settle for making ends meet just a little bit longer so you don't die quite yet.

Then you die.

A friend of my father told me about how he identified with O'Brien of the inner party when he read 1984 in the 50's then he read it in the late 60's and identified with Winston in the outer party and finally when he read it in 1983 he realized he had always been "Just a god-damned prol"