Panterrible

Dude, are you sure your hatred for the band is not clouding your judgements?

Dimebag was overrated because he died and not because his amps sounded good or because he could play ridiculously fast solos. His solos sound like shit? This is a subjective matter, isn't it? Why are you putting this on my table telling me that these are the facts that I'am ignoring. To me he played incredible solos that complemented the songs extremely well. To you they sound like shit, which is fine as far as I'am concerned. But like i've said time and again - it is subjective.

Dude, Thank you for the suggestion but I play guitar. I know my theories well enough.

Ok. If music is not subjective then who decides what is good music and what is shit music? based on what? Some music geek who is extremely competent in music theory? What does he base his judgement on? How complex the theory applied is or what he feels from the music based on that theory? Isn't it about what feelings the music evoke rather than a total utility that the mechanical breakdown of the music yields? Even if it is the latter then different theories , techniques would hold different value for different listeners. So, basically you are saying that I should listen to you, who apparently is more wise when it comes to music, and shut the fuck up. Even if I do that, isn't it true that you like the music you like because you percieved it in a certain way? If that is not subjective that what is?

By the way I'am not trying to convert anyone here in the forum into liking Pantera. Unlike you (some of you) , I do not hold the mentality that what I like must be liked by everyone else and those who like what I despise, must be morons.

Dude, Thank you for the suggestion but I play guitar. I know my theories well enough.

Ok. If music is not subjective then who decides what is good music and what is shit music? based on what? Some music geek who is extremely competent in music theory? What does he base his judgement on? How complex the theory applied is or what he feels from the music based on that theory? Isn't it about what feelings the music evoke rather than a total utility that the mechanical breakdown of the music yields? Even if it is the latter then different theories , techniques would hold different value for different listeners. So, basically you are saying that I should listen to you, who apparently is more wise when it comes to music, and shut the fuck up. Even if I do that, isn't it true that you like the music you like because you percieved it in a certain way? If that is not subjective that what is?

By the way I'am not trying to convert anyone here in the forum into liking Pantera. Unlike you (some of you) , I do not hold the mentality that what I like must be liked by everyone else and those who like what I despise, must be morons.

Once again, it's strange how you keep on asking questions that have already been addressed on these boards and answers that are obvious to those with a little common sense. I quote what I read from user esoteric on another thread very recently:

"If we look at music as the communication of ideas and not simply the eliciting of an emotional response, it is possible to rank both the quality of the ideas and the ability of the music to communicate them. Ideas can either relate to describing the true nature of our reality (something which can hardly be said for the Rolling Stones) or in a more creative, idealistic sense like the Romantics did.

Some people are unable to interpret music and hence may respond emotionally to idiot music. This is possible for any piece of art, be it literature or painting, but it doesn't say anything about the quality of the ideas contained within the art."

In other words, you're welcome to think Pantera is cool, while still not providing a single reason beyond "it's subjective" while on the other hand plenty of users on this board over the years have provided reasons why they are NOT (and like I said this has nothing to do with the ability to play instruments, which you seem to think is the only skill necessary in a metal band). Their composition style has clearly been explored in this thread and others and you haven't refuted it (that's why I told you to take some music lessons). To be honest, nobody really cares about Pantera here. Whether they were good or bad is not really relevant to the future of metal as I can see it, because all they did was draw idiots to metal and inspire it to become a bigger mess even faster. That and the fact that this is a death/black metal board and not a beer metal board might also give you a clue.

I completely agree with ooga, but (without sounding like a goddamn pantera fan) subjective or not, I think Dimebag really wrote some great shit. Compare for example the songs Strength Beyond Strength and Becoming to songs featured in Mutilation's Vampires of Black Imperial Blood. No matter how I tried to appreciate the latter, I can't help thinking it's a tedious exercise in crap music, it actually sounded like a fucked up washing machine (maybe I need to be in a certain mood so I can better get the feel of the songs in the album?)This doesn't mean that I like the band as a whole, but aren't some bands in the underground also overrated? Morbid Angel, Slayer and Sepultura are overrated, how come no one's written a post bashing those bands?

I sometimes wonder what you people think by good music. You like a couple of his riffs, or put your hands in the air when a solo comes on, you tap your foot to a funky drum beat? Because structurally Pantera is about the same as your average pop/rock band. Their entire development is based on intro-verse-chorus-verse-solo-chorus-outro, or some variant there upon, this is something which the majority of valid metal artists have escaped, long ago, long before Pantera was even conceived. And consecutive riffs seem to be completely disjoint from one another, not to mention that they are reasonably uninspired.

I completely agree with ooga, but (without sounding like a goddamn pantera fan) subjective or not, I think Dimebag really wrote some great shit. Compare for example the songs Strength Beyond Strength and Becoming to songs featured in Mutilation's Vampires of Black Imperial Blood. No matter how I tried to appreciate the latter, I can't help thinking it's a tedious exercise in crap music, it actually sounded like a fucked up washing machine (maybe I need to be in a certain mood so I can better get the feel of the songs in the album?) This doesn't mean that I like the band as a whole, but aren't some bands in the underground also overrated? Morbid Angel, Slayer and Sepultura are overrated, how come no one's written a post bashing those bands?

comparing one kinda of shit another kind of shit is pointless. Even if it looks better or smells sweeter than others, shit is shit.

Your mention of Slayer, MA or Sepultura attempts to divert the focus of the thread. The point that is trying to be made(if i got it right) is not that all underground stuff is great, but Pantera is shit.

but anyways in brief: will you enlighten us how Morbid Angel, Slayer or Sepultura are overrated as compared to Pantera?

Pantera discussion probably isn't relevant here because their music (besides sucking, which is actually a different issue) doesn't have anything in common with the spirit of any kind of death metal, or the spirit of any kind of black metal.

Regardless of it's aggression, it comes off as conveying pop themes. The dark, romantic/transcendant, 'eternal' element that animates the best of death and black metal is absent.

True, it is mostly opinion but as evidence towards pantera being worthless you have to look at the facts... they are a sellout metal band who abandoned their originality to simply look badass and make money. everytime dimebag hit a few power chords and pinch harmonics he became that much more overrated simply because his amps distortion sounded good. he plays ridiculously fast solos but people dont realize that they sound like crap compared to a true musicians solos.

The whole speed issue has been going around for a while now. Malmsteen and Batio are both speed demons although their pure pretentious wankery just pisses anyone with a brain off.

Dimebag had some good solos with feeling, but most of his stuff was based on either fretboard or whammy bar wankery.

I agree with everything you initially said. But in Phil’s defense, he always paid homage to Kyle and Exhoder and promoted them every chance he got. As a matter of fact, he did do a lot to promote other artists from New Orleans and I got a lot of respect for him for that. That being said, as a performer he does come across a totally orchestrated and phony.

I just saw Kyle with his new band Alabama Thunder Pussy this past weekend and he still performs with the intensity and stamina that he had when he first started Exhorder at like 16 years old. And this is after a 4-year hiatus from performing. This is because he is being himself and performing from impulse. A couple of years of Phil trying to mimic Kyle’s stage presence has left him all beat down and damaged and addicted to dope to manage the aches and pains. I guess there is a lesson in there somewhere about being true to one’s self…

And this whole Dime Bag Darryl thing is pretty ridiculous. I’m sure he was an O.K. guy and I feel bad for his family and all but really…

About a week ago I’m in this bar and yet another steroid, post-jock, idiot with a shaved head and goatee shows me his Dime Bag Darryl tattoo. To which I blurt out something like “you’re a fucking idiot, Pantera sucked, what is this, some asshole puts a cap in your ass and all of a sudden you’re Randy fucking Rhodes”. The room goes silent; I can see all these Neanderthal goons tense up, I can see the veins in their necks as they’re glaring over at me. I felt like a colored in Jasper, TX.

Get over it, the band sucked; most of their fans are moronic, agro, apes. You never see a dude with a Pantera shirt on with a girl, they’re usually with other idiots wearing Megadeath shirts and ruining everyone else’s good time.

I was into punk in high school but eventually realized that some metal bands played fast... So I bought Pantera's "Far Beyond Driven" and Metallica's "Ride the Lightning" on the same day back when I was 17. I became pretty much obsessed with Ride the Lightning, but to this day I don't think I've made it all the way through Far Beyond. Go figure. It's JUST - NOT - GOOD.

I remember buying "The Great Southern Trendkill". It was my first "extreme" metal album. I enjoyed the chaotic atmosphere in it. "Suicide Note" and "Sandblasted Skin" notably. But later, when I discovered Death's "Human" and Morbid Angel's "Formulas" and "Altars Of Madness", Pantera starting spending less and less time in my CD player...

If music is not subjective then who decides what is good music and what is shit music?

Ask your local holistic genius.

Everything is subjective, including subjectivity. If in your world music is subjective, in my world, subjectively, music is objective. One of us does not live in paradox and I'll trust his opinion on the music of Pantera.