Which is better ? Communism or Capitalism ? - Think Atheist2018-02-22T07:24:04Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/which-is-better-communism-or-capitalism?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A1292783&feed=yes&xn_auth=noIf it's intended as a dichoto…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-12:1982180:Comment:12929522013-04-12T15:00:36.053ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>If it's intended as a dichotomy, it commits the fallacy of the false dichotomy (GMO, threat or menace?).</p>
<p>Both are bad in their purest form. If I had to choose, it'd be capitalism. However, I'd prefer a socialized form of capitalism.</p>
<p>If it's intended as a dichotomy, it commits the fallacy of the false dichotomy (GMO, threat or menace?).</p>
<p>Both are bad in their purest form. If I had to choose, it'd be capitalism. However, I'd prefer a socialized form of capitalism.</p> That is indeed a very interes…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-12:1982180:Comment:12932042013-04-12T04:05:13.743ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<p>That is indeed a very interesting question.</p>
<p>I alluded in an earlier comment to a rather interesting (and to me inexplicable) phenomenon: People who would rather all be equally miserable than unequally prosperous. If <em>equality of wealth</em> is an overwhelming value to you (you cannot stand the thought that someone else might be ten or a hundred times richer than you are even if the other option is you are both starving to death) then you will be unable to tolerate capitalism; it…</p>
<p>That is indeed a very interesting question.</p>
<p>I alluded in an earlier comment to a rather interesting (and to me inexplicable) phenomenon: People who would rather all be equally miserable than unequally prosperous. If <em>equality of wealth</em> is an overwhelming value to you (you cannot stand the thought that someone else might be ten or a hundred times richer than you are even if the other option is you are both starving to death) then you will be unable to tolerate capitalism; it makes no claim to equality of outcome, it just makes a claim to a better average one, and even a better lower end than the average of other systems.</p> Random ruler-less small clust…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-12:1982180:Comment:12929002013-04-12T02:21:46.310ZStregahttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/MzStrega
<p>Random ruler-less small clusters of people with common interest.</p>
<p>Random ruler-less small clusters of people with common interest.</p> They are equally good and bad…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-12:1982180:Comment:12930012013-04-12T00:52:57.928ZDale Headleyhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/DaleHeadley
<p>They are equally good and bad. Capitalism is good because it is a better economic engine for creating wealth. Communism is good because it is a more humane philosophy that says all people deserve a substantial piece of the economic pie. Communism is bad because it usually requires an oppressively authoritarian system of controls. Capitalism is bad because it often stratifies society, thus creating a deeply poor underclass. Both suffer from the same fundamental weakness: GREED.</p>
<p>But…</p>
<p>They are equally good and bad. Capitalism is good because it is a better economic engine for creating wealth. Communism is good because it is a more humane philosophy that says all people deserve a substantial piece of the economic pie. Communism is bad because it usually requires an oppressively authoritarian system of controls. Capitalism is bad because it often stratifies society, thus creating a deeply poor underclass. Both suffer from the same fundamental weakness: GREED.</p>
<p>But there is a third option: socialism. Ask just about anybody living in Canada, Sweden, Finland, the UK, Norway, France, and any number of countries which would be their choice among those three options and they would nearly all choose socialism.</p>
<p>Personally, I have a strong preference for socialism, which is a balance of the two extremes. There is a reason that, in virtually every survey ever done on the attitudes of people around the world, socialist countries always come out on top in terms of perceived happiness. That is because everyone is guaranteed a decent level of subsistence; and people have NOT been brought up, as have<br/>Americans, to worship the accumulation of wealth as the ultimate objective. In socialist countries, most people adhere to the idea that we are all our brother's keeper. </p> that would not have happened…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-11:1982180:Comment:12927832013-04-11T23:04:14.563Zmatt.clerkehttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/mattclerke
<blockquote><p>that would <em><strong>not</strong></em> have happened without a few key people at the top innovating.</p>
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<p>You think the people who are innovating are the people who are getting rich? how quaint...</p>
<blockquote><p>that would <em><strong>not</strong></em> have happened without a few key people at the top innovating.</p>
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<p>You think the people who are innovating are the people who are getting rich? how quaint...</p> Better ? Better how ? better…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-11:1982180:Comment:12927222013-04-11T15:41:50.474ZJudith van der Rooshttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Judith_van_der_Roos
Better ? Better how ? better for the majority of those in society, better for those at the upper end ? Better for the planet and ecosystem ? Better for the individuals ability to THINK freely and creatively ? Or my own personal favourite, better in which to allow my children to develop into compassion hamn beings ?<br />
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Dump both, find another way, be creative.
Better ? Better how ? better for the majority of those in society, better for those at the upper end ? Better for the planet and ecosystem ? Better for the individuals ability to THINK freely and creatively ? Or my own personal favourite, better in which to allow my children to develop into compassion hamn beings ?<br />
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Dump both, find another way, be creative. Hmm the intenet ate part of t…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-11:1982180:Comment:12926422013-04-11T14:02:45.850ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<p>Hmm the intenet ate part of this somehow.</p>
<blockquote><p>Just look at some of the super wealthy. Let's take a billion dollars as a measure of wealth to consider. You can't convince me that anyone on this planet has earned a billion dollars. You just arent' worth that much.</p>
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<p>Really?</p>
<p>How much would someone have to offer you to get you to give up your computer, or Ipad or whatever it is you do your internet on? That's how much value is added to your life by…</p>
<p>Hmm the intenet ate part of this somehow.</p>
<blockquote><p>Just look at some of the super wealthy. Let's take a billion dollars as a measure of wealth to consider. You can't convince me that anyone on this planet has earned a billion dollars. You just arent' worth that much.</p>
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<p>Really?</p>
<p>How much would someone have to offer you to get you to give up your computer, or Ipad or whatever it is you do your internet on? That's how much value is added to your life by that device. You <em>surely</em> paid much less for it, or you wouldn't have paid that much; it adds more value than it cost you. Multiply that by the hundreds of millions of people who use those devices and the people who invented, got manufactured, distribued and marketed the devices have <em>easily</em> added trillions of dollars of value to the world, and that would <em><strong>not</strong></em> have happened without a few key people at the top innovating. And you want to begrudge them a <em>tiny fraction</em> of what they have added to the world as a reward, just because it's a lot more money than you make?</p>
<p>I read over and over again people with the attitude that they'd rather be starving in abject poverty than <em>not</em> be starving but see someone else make a hundred times what they do. I put it to them like that as a <strong>hypothetical</strong> and they choose equal misery over unequal prosperity without fail. (But make no bones about it that is the <em>actual</em> choice reality offers.) I find this incomprehensible bordering on psychotic.</p>
<p></p> If the basic tenet of communi…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-11:1982180:Comment:12925362013-04-11T13:33:42.921ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<blockquote><p>If the basic tenet of communism could be really implemented, that is the way I would go. "From each according to his abilities; to each according to his needs." Notice the word each. there would be no more welfare parasites. Everyone would have to contribute.</p>
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<p>And who is going to be in charge of deciding when you have contributed enough? Who is it that people will have to go to when they need something? I sure hope that person has a shitload of integrity…</p>
<blockquote><p>If the basic tenet of communism could be really implemented, that is the way I would go. "From each according to his abilities; to each according to his needs." Notice the word each. there would be no more welfare parasites. Everyone would have to contribute.</p>
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<p>And who is going to be in charge of deciding when you have contributed enough? Who is it that people will have to go to when they need something? I sure hope that person has a shitload of integrity and doesn't use that power for his own gain, either monetarily or just to accumulate power. His job will come down to dispensing favors, to deciding that YOU get a house, Joe, and Bob, well you don't, you <em>will</em> settle for an apartment, and the decision maker will be the absolute dictator. Some system. It will inevitably come down to people exercising political pull, because absolutely <em>every</em> decision will be a political one. If you hate wrangling with theists over what a political system will dish out to whom, <em>all of your life</em> would be like that under this system.</p>
<blockquote><p>How can a sports figure be worth 20, 30 million dollars for a year of hitting , carrying, or catching a ball? It's ludicrous.</p>
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<p>He entertains millions of people, each of them willing to pay some relatively small amount of money to watch him do it. I don't particularly like it, but he is giving value for that money; no one is stealing it for him (leaving aside taxpayer subsidized stadiums, which the electorate insists on approving when they are asked).</p> Our current system sucks. (O…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-11:1982180:Comment:12928042013-04-11T13:26:18.152ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<p>Our current system sucks. (On the other hand a lot of other systems suck far, far worse.)</p>
<p>But it's not in fact capitalism. It's government dispensing favors to politically favored individuals (many of whom happen to run businesses), and harassing others (also many of whom run businesses by the way, or are <em>trying</em> to), and sometimes they help and harass the same person at the same time.</p>
<p>The fundamental problems with that concept won't disappear just by changing the…</p>
<p>Our current system sucks. (On the other hand a lot of other systems suck far, far worse.)</p>
<p>But it's not in fact capitalism. It's government dispensing favors to politically favored individuals (many of whom happen to run businesses), and harassing others (also many of whom run businesses by the way, or are <em>trying</em> to), and sometimes they help and harass the same person at the same time.</p>
<p>The fundamental problems with that concept won't disappear just by changing the list of who is politically favored and who isn't. Which is what discussions like this usually come down to.</p> Anarcho syndicalism? I'm not…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-04-11:1982180:Comment:12925212013-04-11T09:56:22.353ZSagacious Hawkhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SagaciousHawk
<p>Anarcho syndicalism? I'm not familiar with that.</p>
<p>Anarcho syndicalism? I'm not familiar with that.</p>