It's interesting that when Jebus performed a miracle, it was bringing a dead guy back to life, or feeding hundreds of witnesses with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread, or changing water into wine... things that were big, and visible, and allegedly witnessed by many people.

But now, in the age of camera phones and Youtube, all we get are things like "Several years ago, some nun was sick, then she prayed, then she got better. It's a miracle!" with absolutely zero corroboration from any parties not directly interested in making him a saint.

People who wait for Humans to perform miracles are going to be severly disappointed. I think that God worked throgh Pope John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Lane Kirkland to bring a peaceful end to the Cold War. Sorry if that is not Farker approved thought, but for soemone who was living during those scary times, it makes more sense than to just think that man did something.

CowboyJeff:People who wait for Humans to perform miracles are going to be severly disappointed. I think that God worked throgh Pope John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Lane Kirkland to bring a peaceful end to the Cold War. Sorry if that is not Farker approved thought, but for soemone who was living during those scary times, it makes more sense than to just think that man did something.

Surely you have some proof to back up your assertion. (Remember, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.) And because your assertion is based on the existence of this "God," you must have some proof of his or her or its existence.

I've always thought it was funny that a group of living humans decide which dead human gets to be a saint. Can't you just see those candidates for sainthood sitting around Heaven, waiting for some mortals to give them their promotion?

NoGods:I've always thought it was funny that a group of living humans decide which dead human gets to be a saint. Can't you just see those candidates for sainthood sitting around Heaven, waiting for some mortals to give them their promotion?

Beeblebrox:Cagey B: This thread is kind of funny, considering Fark is well on its way to beatification of the current pope.

I'm a recovering Catholic and think all things religion are silly but the new Pope seems like an okay fellow. The last one was a dick and JP was an ahole.

This one is anti-gay and hasn't done anything to punish guys like Cardinal Law. (Though he did meet with Cardinal Law in a meeting that wasn't a secret sting operation to have him arrested and extradited.)

Barricaded Gunman:It's interesting that when Jebus performed a miracle, it was bringing a dead guy back to life, or feeding hundreds of witnesses with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread, or changing water into wine... things that were big, and visible, and allegedly witnessed by many people.

But now, in the age of camera phones and Youtube, all we get are things like "Several years ago, some nun was sick, then she prayed, then she got better. It's a miracle!" with absolutely zero corroboration from any parties not directly interested in making him a saint.

Little known fact: JP2 abolished the position of Devil's Advocate. It used to be that a panel of skeptics (often not Catholic) were hired by the Church to try to refute any claimed miracle. But JP2 got upset by modern science being too good at filtering out bullshiat, so he cancelled the practice.

gimmegimme:KrispyKritter: MaudlinMutantMollusk: raerae1980: Mangoose: I know Zeppelin had a great rhythm section, but that's taking it a little too far.

If ONLY that was what was going on.

I can't believe this shiat is taken seriously.

That. Right there.

yous are aware there are many religions in which people perform rituals and accept by faith, right? these things are nothing new. millions around the globe participate. it may offend your sensibilities but it shouldn't be hard to believe these things take place.

He/She wasn't shocked that the canonization was happening. He's astounded that people continue to languish in the delusion of religion.

And if they'll make people who facilitate child abuse a saint, then they'll make ANYONE a saint.

Files released by the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Milwaukee on Monday reveal that in 2007, Cardinal Timothy F. Dolan, then the archbishop there, requested permission from the Vatican to move nearly $57 million into a cemetery trust fund to protect the assets from victims of clergy sexual abuse who were demanding compensation.

Files released by the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Milwaukee on Monday reveal that in 2007, Cardinal Timothy F. Dolan, then the archbishop there, requested permission from the Vatican to move nearly $57 million into a cemetery trust fund to protect the assets from victims of clergy sexual abuse who were demanding compensation.

Copper Spork:Little known fact: JP2 abolished the position of Devil's Advocate. It used to be that a panel of skeptics (often not Catholic) were hired by the Church to try to refute any claimed miracle. But JP2 got upset by modern science being too good at filtering out bullshiat, so he cancelled the practice.

Wasn't Christopher Hitchens the last one (for Mother Teresa)?

gimmegimme:Beeblebrox: Cagey B: This thread is kind of funny, considering Fark is well on its way to beatification of the current pope.

I'm a recovering Catholic and think all things religion are silly but the new Pope seems like an okay fellow. The last one was a dick and JP was an ahole.

This one is anti-gay and hasn't done anything to punish guys like Cardinal Law. (Though he did meet with Cardinal Law in a meeting that wasn't a secret sting operation to have him arrested and extradited.)

He's just starting and I didn't say he was great, just okay. He's really about not hoarding wealth as far as I can see. As an atheist, I'm keeping an open mind on him.

CowboyJeff:People who wait for Humans to perform miracles are going to be severly disappointed. I think that God worked throgh Pope John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Lane Kirkland to bring a peaceful end to the Cold War. Sorry if that is not Farker approved thought, but for soemone who was living during those scary times, it makes more sense than to just think that man did something.

I lived through the same period, and watched the actual hard work of thousands of people (on both sides of the Iron Curtain) ultimately result in the end of the Cold War. I think it's kind of an insult to all of those people to say that the end of the cold war was really the result of some guy in a funny hat doing a magic trick.

Add me to the list of people scoffing at this process. For the one thing, one of the first things he did as Pope was do away with the 'devils advocate office'

Origin of the concept of the Devil's advocate

Originally, Pope John XV (sometimes designated Pope John XVI, 985-996) developed the canonization process, and ordered it to be applied to himself immediately after his death. Then, in 1587, and because of growing criticism and abuse of the procedure, Pope Sixtus V (1585-90) added to the canonization process by establishing an office for a promotor fidei, popularly called the Devil's advocate (Latin: advocatus diabolus) whose job it was to argue against the canonization of the candidate. He was to publicly take a skeptical view of the candidate's character, question the evidence, and argue that any miracles attributed to the candidate were fraudulent, etc. For more than four centuries, this process served a useful role in ensuring that canonizations did not proceed without due care, and hence the status of sainthood was not easily achieved. Pope John Paul II made sure that that process didn't apply to him, and amidst widespread opposition from some Catholic groups, he was beatified only six years after his death.

His second move came in 1999 when he realized that his health was declining, and he then waived the condition that prevented the process of canonization from beginning until five years after a candidate's death. Hence, the rule that had traditionally been used to allow for a more objective look at a person's life and achievements no longer applied, and Pope John Paul II's canonization process started just a few weeks after his death. As a result of his own rule changes, John Paul II is now soaring toward sainthood faster than any person in Catholic history.Link

This guy ain't no saint. He's a slick bureaucrat with a colossal ego who went to great lengths to insure his legacy. It's a shame that this is only going to further embarrass the Roman Catholic Church, for regardless of how holy they claim he was, his real legacy were his disgraceful moves in purposefully avoiding the kiddie diddling scandal. That was a clear case of him having the power to do correct a grave decades long injustice, and showing that instead of being a "saint" that he was just the opposite--a slick bureaucrat who lacked the moral fiber to do the right thing.

FloydA:CowboyJeff: People who wait for Humans to perform miracles are going to be severly disappointed. I think that God worked throgh Pope John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Lane Kirkland to bring a peaceful end to the Cold War. Sorry if that is not Farker approved thought, but for soemone who was living during those scary times, it makes more sense than to just think that man did something.

I lived through the same period, and watched the actual hard work of thousands of people (on both sides of the Iron Curtain) ultimately result in the end of the Cold War. I think it's kind of an insult to all of those people to say that the end of the cold war was really the result of some guy in a funny hat doing a magic trick.

We seem to have different opinions about what makes sense.

Learning about all that stuff is really hard and takes a long time. Can't we just say Goddidit?

gimmegimme:FloydA: CowboyJeff: People who wait for Humans to perform miracles are going to be severly disappointed. I think that God worked throgh Pope John Paul II, Ronald Reagan and Lane Kirkland to bring a peaceful end to the Cold War. Sorry if that is not Farker approved thought, but for soemone who was living during those scary times, it makes more sense than to just think that man did something.

I lived through the same period, and watched the actual hard work of thousands of people (on both sides of the Iron Curtain) ultimately result in the end of the Cold War. I think it's kind of an insult to all of those people to say that the end of the cold war was really the result of some guy in a funny hat doing a magic trick.

We seem to have different opinions about what makes sense.

Learning about all that stuff is really hard and takes a long time. Can't we just say Goddidit?

Pope John Paul II Forgives Molested ChildrenMay 22, 2002 - Vatican City"Though grave and terrible sins have been committed, our Lord teaches us to turn the other cheek and forgive those who sin against us," said the pope, reading a prepared statement from a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square. "That is why, despite the terrible wrongs they have committed, the church must move on and forgive these children for their misdeeds."

To be made a saint in-a the catholic church, you have to have-a four miracles. That's-a the rules, you know. It's-a always been that-a. Four miracles, and-a to prove it. Well, this-a Mother Seton-now they could only prove-a three miracles. But the Pope-he just waved the fourth one. He just waved it! And do you know why? It's-a because she was American. It's all-a politics. We got-a some Italian-a people, they got-a forty, fifty, sixty miracles to their name. They can't-a get in just cause they say there's already too many Italian saints, and this woman comes along with-a three lousy miracles. I understand that-a two of them was-a card tricks.

Yep. It's impossible to take the Catholic Church seriously in this day and age.

jaytkay:Pope John Paul II Forgives Molested ChildrenMay 22, 2002 - Vatican City"Though grave and terrible sins have been committed, our Lord teaches us to turn the other cheek and forgive those who sin against us," said the pope, reading a prepared statement from a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square. "That is why, despite the terrible wrongs they have committed, the church must move on and forgive these children for their misdeeds."

And, this. (Thanks for the reminder that JPII was on board with blaming the kids for kiddie diddling.)

What happened to the whole idea of judgement day and that no one gets into heaven first? As I understand it, when you die you don't immediately get judged, you wait till the end of times then you are judged. So how would a group of clergy decide that not only did someone get into heaven (doing gods job much?) but that god also went ahead and made him a saint? That seems very presumptuous on behalf of humankind.

FormlessOne:jaytkay: Pope John Paul II Forgives Molested ChildrenMay 22, 2002 - Vatican City"Though grave and terrible sins have been committed, our Lord teaches us to turn the other cheek and forgive those who sin against us," said the pope, reading a prepared statement from a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square. "That is why, despite the terrible wrongs they have committed, the church must move on and forgive these children for their misdeeds."

And, this. (Thanks for the reminder that JPII was on board with blaming the kids for kiddie diddling.)

jaytkay:Pope John Paul II Forgives Molested ChildrenMay 22, 2002 - Vatican City"Though grave and terrible sins have been committed, our Lord teaches us to turn the other cheek and forgive those who sin against us," said the pope, reading a prepared statement from a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square. "That is why, despite the terrible wrongs they have committed, the church must move on and forgive these children for their misdeeds."

MaudlinMutantMollusk:NoGods: I've always thought it was funny that a group of living humans decide which dead human gets to be a saint. Can't you just see those candidates for sainthood sitting around Heaven, waiting for some mortals to give them their promotion?

Must be a lot like the players on draft day

/just hoping to go in the first round

John of Ruysbroeck has tremendous upside potential and a great wingspan. He needs to work on his post game, but he's a five-tool player and really wowed them at the combine.

theknuckler_33:FormlessOne: jaytkay: Pope John Paul II Forgives Molested ChildrenMay 22, 2002 - Vatican City"Though grave and terrible sins have been committed, our Lord teaches us to turn the other cheek and forgive those who sin against us," said the pope, reading a prepared statement from a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square. "That is why, despite the terrible wrongs they have committed, the church must move on and forgive these children for their misdeeds."

And, this. (Thanks for the reminder that JPII was on board with blaming the kids for kiddie diddling.)

Wolf892:What happened to the whole idea of judgement day and that no one gets into heaven first? As I understand it, when you die you don't immediately get judged, you wait till the end of times then you are judged. So how would a group of clergy decide that not only did someone get into heaven (doing gods job much?) but that god also went ahead and made him a saint? That seems very presumptuous on behalf of humankind.

That's what a Saint is. Someone who went to Heaven immediately upon death instead of waiting around with everyone else. The miracles are proof that the person is in Heaven and thus in a position to ask God for favors.

Look.... a a religious organization has investigated itself and found that in fact it's leader performed miracles. What could POSSIBLY be suspicious about that? Where's the conflict of interest? I am confident that they controlled the experiment for placebo effect.

On the one hand it's silly, but the Vatican laughs all the way to their corrupt bank. It costs a truckload of cash to have somebody canonized. This is fitting for JP II, because he hung out with a serial molester, Fr. Marcial Maciel Degollado, who even took one of his illegitimate kids to meet JP II. Maciel was also known to show up with suitcases full of cash. Here's the book that lays out all the filth.

pxlboy:jaytkay: Pope John Paul II Forgives Molested ChildrenMay 22, 2002 - Vatican City"Though grave and terrible sins have been committed, our Lord teaches us to turn the other cheek and forgive those who sin against us," said the pope, reading a prepared statement from a balcony overlooking St. Peter's Square. "That is why, despite the terrible wrongs they have committed, the church must move on and forgive these children for their misdeeds."

Wow, that's f*cked up.

Those sexy sexy children dressing all sexy sexy, I mean seriously have you seen how short the shorts are these days?

CowboyJeff:If we can interrupt the usual Fark (c) Catholic Bashing, lets look at some facts. When Pope John Pal II came into office the world was in the middle of a cold war that everyone assumed would end in mushroom clouds all over the world. President Reagan formed a secret alliance with AFL-CIO president Lane Kirkland and the Pope to secretly get money and equipment to the Polish Soidarity movement. The Bulgarian secret police (the same one that sent aid and wepons to Nelson Mandela) tried to assinate the Pope, and failed. Soldarity succeded in overthrowing the Polish government and then like dominoes the whole Soviet bloc collapsed, the Berlin Wall fell and then the Soviet Union collapsed....ALL WITHOUT A SHOT BEING FIRED....NO MUSHROOM CLOUDS...for a child of the cold war, that sounds like a miracle to me..and I am not even Catholic.

Jon iz teh kewl:Barricaded Gunman: It's interesting that when Jebus performed a miracle, it was bringing a dead guy back to life, or feeding hundreds of witnesses with a couple of fish and a loaf of bread, or changing water into wine... things that were big, and visible, and allegedly witnessed by many people.

But now, in the age of camera phones and Youtube, all we get are things like "Several years ago, some nun was sick, then she prayed, then she got better. It's a miracle!" with absolutely zero corroboration from any parties not directly interested in making him a saint.

[images2.wikia.nocookie.net image 640x359]

How does it work? Well... mental illness is generally though of as an excellent "cause" of this sort of behavour. Fortunately there are Baker Act type laws on the books to keep these sort of people out of "general population".

"Hey, Holy Father!""Yes my son?""We're getting tons of shiat about being all rich while millions are starving, and that we're protecting child molesters, we need to improve our image.""We need a miracle""Yeah""No, I mean we need to make a miracle. Let's make that other Pope a saint.""The Nazi?""No, the other one.""The one that hid all the kiddy fiddling?""Wasn't that all of them?"*both laugh*"No, the one before the Nazi. Pope John Paul George Ringo or something.""Oh yeah, he was popular. Say he cured Aids and rescued a little girl from a lion or something.""Good idea, I'll get right on it."