Posted
by
Soulskill
on Wednesday February 27, 2013 @05:14AM
from the what-could-possibly-go-wrong dept.

Hugh Pickens writes "USA Today reports that Australian billionaire Clive Palmer has unveiled plans for construction of Titanic II, a cruise ship designed as a 'full-scale re-creation' of the Titanic, adding that the ship will be built in China and begin carrying passengers in 2016. The Titanic II will be built 883 feet long – 3 inches longer than the original Titanic – and weigh 55,800 gross tons, according to Palmer, who stopped short of calling the vessel unsinkable. It will carry a maximum of 2,435 passengers and 900 crew members, and include a gymnasium, Turkish baths, a squash court, a swimming pool, a theater and a casino. Like the original ship, there will no TVs aboard and probably no Internet service, Palmer says. Passengers will be able to dress in 1912-style clothing, giving them an opportunity to step back in time, or pretend they are Leo DiCaprio or Kate Winslet, who starred in James Cameron's 1997 blockbuster movie. But industry insiders are skeptical about the commercial viability of the ship. 'Titanic II is a curiosity and may have a draw as a floating hotel, but the idea of spending close to a week at sea on a vessel built around such a thin premise is seen as a stretch, at least by many within the industry,' says Michael Driscoll, editor of industry newsletter Cruise Week. Driscoll adds that he is skeptical about the future of Titanic II in the aftermath of the Carnival Triumph fire and last year's shipwreck of the Costa Concordia off the coast of Tuscany. Paul Kurzman, whose great-grandparents, Isidor and Ida Straus, died on the Titanic, says he has 'no problem' with the construction of Titanic II. 'I don't think they would have had any problem whatsoever, as long as the Titanic II steers clear of icebergs.'"

I would have to wonder if they will effectively separate classes on a ship as they did in that time, this hardly seems like it would be a popular concept in modern day, however it is hardly an accurate recreation if they ignore this aspect.

The point is that she never would have been there...the movie was a work of FICTION. Imagine an elegant society woman going to a hoedown with the hillbillies to understand how ridiculous the concept is.

Even during the Victorian Era, much interclass screwing around took place. Don't confuse the stereotype of exemplary chastity with, as they say, "the facts on the ground". Prostitution was all over the place. Etc.

Prostitution generally involved higher class men screwing lower class women. The other way round was rather unusual.

Upper class women were often left at home for long periods while their husbands went off to rule the Empire. The result was a culture of affairs with men of similar social standing, and also of sex with the servants. The latter was in some ways a form of prostitution; in exchange for a clean indoor job involving standing around handing out food and drink and shifting luggage, all board, lodging and clothes provided, a footman was expected to service the mistress and perhaps her friends. In a divorce case (which was really considered scandalous) it was not done to cite other parties lower than one's own social status, i.e. bonking servants didn't count.

Not in all cases obviously, perhaps not in a majority, but the rules have been well documented.

The latter was in some ways a form of prostitution; in exchange for a clean indoor job involving standing around handing out food and drink and shifting luggage, all board, lodging and clothes provided, a footman was expected to service the mistress and perhaps her friends

If you read any Victorian novel, the footmen are almost always well-built and good-looking, with fine calves and a ready smile. You can see why they annoy the god-fearing, moralistic young heroes, who clearly aren't getting anywhere near the same quantity or quality of horizontal jogging.

nobody in their right mind would build an exact replica at this day and age. where the fuck would they find passengers for the lower decks??????? it's not like australia, usa or wherever this thing cruises to would be taking in passengers just wanting to transit from shore a to shore b.

Clive Palmer is actually completely fecking bonkers. People here in australia treat him as sort of a scary/facinating madman who got all the dollars but none of the sense that one might associate with being a billionaire. Granted its not uncommon with australian billionaires to be a bit cranky (See rupert murdoch, gina rinehart, and so on).

That said. I want someone to convince him to spend his billions on space travel. He's just far enough off his rocker to actually consider it.

They're going to have to redesign the decks for the simple fact that the Titanic was not a cruise ship, it was a passage (aka passenger) ship. Cruise ships are going to have to have a lot more comfort and room available.

That said, drinking, eating, and sitting around doing nothing are the primary activities on a cruise (I'd imagine). You can do that in any 'class' on the ship, conceivably. But I do imagine they'd improve berthing a bit for the 'general transport' class to more effectively use the space.

They're going to have to redesign the decks for the simple fact that the Titanic was not a cruise ship, it was a passage (aka passenger) ship.

It wasn't even a passenger ship - it was a passenger liner... designed to efficiently move as many people as possible on as tight a schedule as possible. (The term 'liner' refers to a line on a schedule.) The closest modern equivalent would be a high speed commuter train - shuttling back and forth along it's route on an infinite loop, and otherwise pretty much nothi

Millions of people have made it across the ocean on ships similar to the Titanic (though smaller); only a few thousand had perished.

You might want to check your numbers [answers.com]: "It is suspected that of 11 million slaves transported, this represented a third of the slaves from the start. so approximately 22 million slaves died on the slaves ships in the Indies and Americas alone."

Because historically, extreme concentration of wealth in the hands of a few coincides with recession/depression and high levels of national debt. This is not hard to understand. Redistributing wealth to a smaller group of people means the larger group of people have less to spend. The smaller group owning the majority of the wealth will not spend their money the same way someone from the lower classes will.

The reason we had such a great economy in the 1950s was in part due to the low income inequality via high taxation on the rich. Capitalism worked beautifully then, lifting the standards of practically every American. One can argue the same is not true today.

As long as the wealth is created in a free market, that wealth is a reflection of merit, either of the individual in possession of the wealth or of someone who left it to them voluntarily.

Remind me again how being born to rich parents is meritorious?

You are clearly a deranged socialist who can't understand common sense. The wealth is meritorious in itself. Once created, it creates meritoriousness in all who are clever enough to touch it. An so a Meritoriocracy is created. You poor peasants wouldn't understand.

There are some parts of the old ship that most definitely should NOT be replicated on the new one.Like the lifeboats.And the engines.And the bridge (and its navigation equipment and iceburg detection systems)And the kitchens

There are some parts of the old ship that most definitely should NOT be replicated on the new one.Like the lifeboats.And the engines.And the bridge (and its navigation equipment and iceburg detection systems)And the kitchens

And the iceberg itself. I don't think I'll be comfortable in a recreation of a scenario that ends in people freezing to death.

The iceberg itself is only a problem if the get a full scale model for that one as well... and hit it...Nevertheless I think that it would be a nice way to travel about for some folks, think of all the goths that are breaking their piggy-banks *right now* to have a cruise their way!:-)

There are some parts of the old ship that most definitely should NOT be replicated on the new one.Like the lifeboats.And the engines.And the bridge (and its navigation equipment and iceburg detection systems)And the kitchens

And the iceberg itself. I don't think I'll be comfortable in a recreation of a scenario that ends in people freezing to death.

And don't forget the best one of all - a double-hull construction using brittle steel where water, once entered into one of the compartments can then pour over the top into the other compartments!

Having an iceberg in the water doesn't make people freeze to death, though. Being in water cold enough that the icebergs are common, however...

Since I've got a materials background I thought that as well, especially since I've spent a lot of time hitting little bits of steel that had been soaked in ice water with a huge hammer and seeing how brittle some are. There definitely is unsuitable steel for ships in the North Atlantic, as seen later when the Liberty ships used the cheapest steel available and repeated earlier mistakes. However after reading Joseph Conrad's newspaper article on the Titanic enquiry (thanks to Project Gutenburg), it's hard

There are some parts of the old ship that most definitely should NOT be replicated on the new one.Like the lifeboats.And the engines.And the bridge (and its navigation equipment and iceburg detection systems)And the kitchens

Ah yes:Heaven - where the police are British, the chefs are French, the lovers are Italian, the cars are made by the Germans, and it's organized by the Swiss.Hell - where the police are German, the chefs are British, the lovers are Swiss, the cars are made by the French, and it's organized by the Italians.

There are some parts of the old ship that most definitely should NOT be replicated on the new one.
Like the lifeboats.
And the engines.
And the bridge (and its navigation equipment and iceburg detection systems)
And the kitchens

And the "watertight" compartments. IIRC, they only went up a couple of decks, so when the water level got high enough, they all flooded.

There are some parts of the old ship that most definitely should NOT be replicated on the new one.

Olympic, Titanic's twin sister, was in service for 24 years on the North Atlantic run.

I don't see any problem with the engines.

If your complaint is about the inefficacies of coal or the manning requirements and working conditions aboard a coal-fired ship, take it up with Winston Churchill. Naval innovation: From coal to oil [epmag.com]

If you are First Lord of the Admiralty. you can make these things happen.

The lack of binoculars and that affecting the lookouts ability to see the iceberg is a bullshit myth. Even with today's binoculars it's easier to see things in the dark with just bare eyes simply because when you're staring at almost complete darkness with binoculars you have no references you can see when you look around so it's pure luck if you spot something. However, with bare eyes you can easily spot even a tiny difference from the complete darkness ahead (when your eyes have adjusted, which takes 15-2

Why not? Traveling by airship would be a unique experience for many people.

With proper precautions, hydrogen as a lifting gas is not considerably more hazardous than jet aircraft loaded with gobs of jet fuel/covering the fabric of the airship with highly flammable chemicals seems like a bad idea

From memory, the R101 disaster was caused by structural failures (in turn caused by poor design decisions in turn caused by political problems with the project.) R101 didn't catch fire until after it crashed. Had it been a plane with the same problems, the same thing would have happened, except there'd have been no survivors from a plane crashing into the ground at standard cruise speeds.

Further I don't think one can reasonably travel across the Atlantic in a 747 pumped full of jet fuel, and then, on rea

Airships have to have light superstructures to be able to have adequate lift, and they have a very large surface area. To the best of my knowledge nobody has come up with a convincing way of safely landing (or taking off) an airship in high winds. Modern materials, good as they are, are still not sufficiently stronger than materials available in the 1930s to make a safe airship.

I wasn't aware that hydrogen was corrosive.It can cause embrittlement of steels, but that is quite a separate issue.

Some of the best aluminium bicycles and aircraft parts today are made from an alloy indistinguishable from the duralumin in some of the airships. Same composition, same heat treatment, same amount of work hardening, just a bit better quantified, better quality control and we now know why it has those properties instead of the trial and error that went into devising it.Hydrogen doesn't do anything that will cause problems with aluminium alloys.

For those outside Australia, Clive Palmer is well known looney tunes. He has a habit of making outlandish claims (such as the CIA is funding the Green (hippie) party purely to destabilise our coal industry), I'd be surprised if this ever sees the light of day.

Almost any kind of troubles. The Olympic did crash into a British warship, the collision holing her both below and above the waterline, but no one was hurt in that one and neither the Olympic nor the warship sank.

According to Wikipedia, one of the passengers on the Olympic when it crashed later was later on the Titanic when she sank (and survived that ordeal), and later was on the Britannic when it sank (surviving that one too).

According to Wikipedia, one of the passengers on the Olympic when it crashed later was later on the Titanic when she sank (and survived that ordeal), and later was on the Britannic when it sank (surviving that one too).

Slightly luckier than the Tsutomu Yamaguchi who got hit by two nukes. (and survived that ordeal.)

According to Wikipedia, one of the passengers on the Olympic when it crashed later was later on the Titanic when she sank (and survived that ordeal), and later was on the Britannic when it sank (surviving that one too).

Well, only the first time is really hard. Each subsequent shipwreck you are into, your accumulated experience makes it even easier to emerge unharmed while people drown left and right...Perhaps after a dozen or so shipwrecks you could even be fit enough to have a chance getting out of sinking u-boats...

Almost any kind of troubles. The Olympic did crash into a British warship, the collision holing her both below and above the waterline, but no one was hurt in that one and neither the Olympic nor the warship sank.

That collision was shortly before the Titanic sailed. Over twenty years later towards the end of her career, Olympic had another collision. It collided with and sank the Nantucket lightship [wikipedia.org] with loss of life from the lightship.

It would be more accurate to say he comes across as a Looney. Most of his controversy is carefully planned to generate some distraction in the media.

What else give me hope that this is not a hoax is that most of his outlandish claims are only repeated once and then he disappears into the rather. This on the other hand is the fourth time in a year I've heard him talk about this idea.

That's what (the generic) you said when he first floated (pardon the pun) this idea a year or so back... looney tunes or not, he's making progress on his plans. (Granted it's a long way to to completion.)

In one of the ironies of history, the Titanic was equipped with wireless but the operator was too busy sending the important messages of the VIP travellers to make distress calls. It was the early 20th century equivalent of people making Facebook status updates "Ship is sinking, lol" rather than dialling 911.

One of the greatest European epics, the Chanson de Roland, is about a lost battle. Then there are the Greek tragedies. The Titanic story is a pure tragedy because the builders and the operators of the ship were brought low by hubris and by tempting Fate. That is why it has cultural resonance.

Window dressing on the con.This guy became a millionaire by working MITM attacks on mining leases as a clerk in the Queensland Government department of mines, back when the government was so clearly on the take that around half of cabinet ended up in jail. He became a billionaire in a strange deal with BHP where he bought a Nickel refinery for far less than one years profit for that Nickel refinery - very strange since BHP was not in a situation where it needed to do a fire sale. Lately he's trying to sel

Passengers will be able to dress in 1912-style clothing, giving them an opportunity to step back in time [...]

I am so glad they have given permission to dress as one sees fit. But, Mr Palmer and associates, if I want to dress in 1912-stlye clothing I'd do it with or without your permission, so please stay the fuck out of my personal life and dictation of how I should dress. Thank you. Am I allowed to abstain from shaving?

Disney's ships hold about 40% more passengers and they are priced at the higher end of the mass market lines. Given operational costs such as fuel are relative fixed it would seem their cruise costs would be significantly higher. The question is is the T2 experience compelling enough to attract capacity crowds and repeat business to be a viable long term business?

He had a big event on this subject in New York yesterday.Of course he's well known in Australia for stupid announcements that have little to do with reality. It was just over a year ago that he called a press conference to announce that Australia's environmental groups were funded by the CIA.

It is also notoriously inaccurate as competing 24 hour news outlets attempt to out-scoop one another with little, if any, story validation. Early reporting at recent FPS stories like Sandy Hook, Fort Hood, and the Colorado theater included a misidentifed shooter and multiple-shooter inaccuracies. The best intellectual reflection is usually done when variables such as untruths can be left out of one's regression analysis.

publications such as the Irish News and Belfast Morning News and Shipbuilder printed detailed articles about the ship's construction and noted that "The Captain may, by simply moving an electric switch, instantly close the doors throughout and make the vessel practically unsinkable."

a White Star promotional flyer for the Olympic and Titanic... claimed "as far as it is possible to do, these two wonderful vessels are designed to be unsinkable."