well i remember from years ago one of my favourite routes on Aunty Jack wall was Zipper, a bit harder than AJ but a lot better protected with the 2 bolts at the bottom, the bombproof cam (s) in the horizontal and then various solid wires from there to the top,

I had a dose of bronchitis over the last few days so when my partner of many years ago, Matt D sugestted it on Saturday i declined but i got my son Richard to go and give it a shot with him; giving Rich a few hints abbout the gear. When he got back he told me he placed one nut, didn't need any more since there were 5 (yes five) bolts on it now. I thought he must have been on the wrong climb so yesterday, after it cooled off a bit, i went for a wander down to Mt York & i have to say i could scarcely believe what i saw. There are indeed 5 bolts on Zipper , the new 3 each within a metre of good cam or nut pro. They are not even far enough to the side of the route to be a'new route'. I have to say i am a fairly cowardly leader - i even used to put a small wire after the 2nd bolt on the way to the horizontal crack - but 3 new bolts is ridiculous.

Anyway, I dare say its still a fine route if it does lack a bit of the earlier need to think about your gear. At least Aunty Jack is still bolt free; Ross can rest in peace.

Recently on Chockstone there was a thread discussing the pros and cons of placing/replacing bolts on "Spartan" at Mt Piddington. Part of the debate focussed on the need (idea?) of gaining approval from the FA. I would suggest that modern-day bolters rarely, if ever, do this. Which accords with the popular defence that "The FA doesn't own the rock".

Logically, of course, said modern-day bolter has no claim to ownership of the rock either, so it becomes a philosophical or moot point.

Thus I fear that sooner or later the "heritage" left to us by Ross Vining (and others) will be sullied when some aspiring climber decides he/she could lead Aunty Jack (or any of a hundred other climbs) if only it had a few bolts added.

Strategically placed, a bolt or two could transform Aunty Jack from a Red route into a Yellow route! Place a few more bolts and it could even be a Blue route.

On 2/01/2013 kuu wrote:>Recently on Chockstone there was a thread discussing the pros and cons>of placing/replacing bolts on "Spartan" at Mt Piddington. Part of the debate>focussed on the need (idea?) of gaining approval from the FA. I would suggest>that modern-day bolters rarely, if ever, do this. Which accords with the>popular defence that "The FA doesn't own the rock".

What are you basing that on? I've retroed quite a few routes recently - and every one of them I got direct permission from the first ascentist. In fact many of them paid for the bolts!

Neil, my comments were not specifically aimed at you, or any other particular individual for that matter, they were a generalisation. (Maybe an unfortunate generalisation?) But I would still contend that the majority of retro-bolting occurs without consultation with the FA. And, furthermore, this is more likely to be so in the case of climbs that were put-up by climbers a generation or two older than the bolters -- people the bolters don't know, or perhaps have never even heard of.

On 2/01/2013 jrc wrote:>(snip) i could scarcely believe what i saw. There are indeed 5 bolts on Zipper , the new 3 each>within a metre of good cam or nut pro. They are not even far enough to the side of the route to be a'new route'. I have to say (snip) - 3 new bolts is ridiculous. >
The 3 new ones don't have to remain there...

On 2/01/2013 kuu wrote:>On 2/01/2013 jrc wrote:>> (snip)>>" At least Aunty Jack is still bolt free; Ross can rest in peace. ">>Yes, but for how long?>>Recently on Chockstone there was a thread discussing the pros and cons>of placing/replacing bolts on "Spartan" at Mt Piddington. Part of the debate>focussed on the need (idea?) of gaining approval from the FA. I would suggest>that modern-day bolters rarely, if ever, do this. Which accords with the>popular defence that "The FA doesn't own the rock".>>Logically, of course, said modern-day bolter has no claim to ownership>of the rock either, so it becomes a philosophical or moot point.>>Thus I fear that sooner or later the "heritage" left to us by Ross Vining>(and others) will be sullied when some aspiring climber decides he/she>could lead Aunty Jack (or any of a hundred other climbs) if only it had>a few bolts added.>>Strategically placed, a bolt or two could transform Aunty Jack from a>Red route into a Yellow route! Place a few more bolts and it could even>be a Blue route.>
Well said kuu.

excuse the ignorance... is Aunty Jack the line on the furthest left of that wall? A metre or two from the arete?

Just this weekend I was looking for a 'black' route according to Simon Carter's guide... but there are 2-3 silver studs spaced between the horizontal breaks, so not sure if I got it wrong, or if it had been retroed.

On 11/06/2013 duploboy wrote:>excuse the ignorance... is Aunty Jack the line on the furthest left of>that wall? A metre or two from the arete? >>Just this weekend I was looking for a 'black' route according to Simon>Carter's guide... but there are 2-3 silver studs spaced between the horizontal>breaks, so not sure if I got it wrong, or if it had been retroed. >
This sounds like Ykickamookow (21). Aunty Jack is 1-2 metres right, then Zipper on a couple of bolts down low and joining Aunty Jack higher up.