It's a sort of odd expectation if you think about it. Why the expectation that people will recognise cyclists on the street, rather than recognise holders of the Nobel Prize or Fields Medal?

What would be nice is if the public had more knowledge of cycling in general. And there we've really gone backwards, what with so many fewer kids cycling to school, and women seeming to have abandoned non-sport cycling entirely.

At the moment cycle racing seems to be degenerating into Golf for Gen X --- a sport not followed by the population, extremely popular with wealthy men, who play it poorly, etc.

Cycling in Aus doesnt have the rich history going back since well before the BC days that Europe does. It is ingrained into their culture in a lot of ways. It's one of their biggest sports (I would suggest second to football in many parts of Europe maybe?)

Being a (generally) sports mad nation it will always be more difficult for one sport to have a huge following. I mean, we have 3-4 different 'national' football competitions of varying codes, a national basketball competition that went from huge in the 90's to virtually non existent today, now is about the time of year cricket gets back in the sports section, Tiger as you mentioned is great exposure for my favorite four letter word. Come January, Tennis will be back on the cards. Swimming, whilst not as popular as it used to be IMO is still bobbing along nicely. Im sure there is more i'm missing right at this moment. Then there is what I call 'quasi sports' that are increasing in popularity (UFC and that stupid trampoline basketball game are two that come to mind)

As an aside, I think Tiger is a perfect example of why it is important for riders like LA and Cadel to be pursued to ride the TDU. How would you feel if LA was paid 3 mill this year to come ride the TDU, giving huge amounts of exposure to cycling? Not exactly the same situation I know, but im sure you can see what im getting at.

As for the almighty $$, as nice as it would be that difficulty and committment get you across the line, tis not always the case. Money is spent where money is made, tiger is a perfect example. Look at it from Victoria's perspective rather than Tigers - they invested $3 mill into a project that was slated to bring in $19mill of benefits to the state (and many say that is a fairly conservative figure). So is it not money well spent?? International exposure for the Aus Open, Melbourne and Victoria, local exposure for the game of golf, $$ through the tills of restaurants/motels/local attractions/public transport/so n and so on (apparently it was easier to get a room in Melbourne during cup week)

Why does it have such a low profile? Basing it on the average-ish age of pro cyclists im from the same generation. When I was a kid, cycling was what you did to get to school, or a mates place on the weekend. Maybe if you were lucky you had a BMX track nearby (and a BMX with which to go around said track). Those of us that were kids in the late 80's and early 90's went through the boom of BMX and mountain bikes. Once again as recreation/transport rather than competitive sport. Look at our current world champion - he's an ex mountain biker. Other than that, I personally believe that Australian culture lends itself more to team sports. I know that many cycling events are team based, but that is not the perception of Joe Public IMO, as the individual still gets the accolades (e.g. Grand tours). Aussies want to see a group of mates bonding on the sporting field, doing it for their city/state/country. Which brings to me to my final point before I start having to split this into chapters ( ) - Cycling as a spectator sport is frustrating to many people. A lot of my friends will go and watch almost any sport, but road cycling (which arguably has the greatest exposure in Aus) doesnt do it for them. Why not? You can't sit there with a beer and watch the whole event, unless your in front of a TV.

master6 wrote: Moderators are like Club Handicappers; I often think they are wrong, but I dont want the job.

gdt wrote:At the moment cycle racing seems to be degenerating into Golf for Gen X --- a sport not followed by the population, extremely popular with wealthy men, who play it poorly, etc.

Hey! I resemble that remark! Other than the wealthy bit - you don't have to be wealthy to enjoy competitive cycling (golf, however, is expensive).

So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gildingbut really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.

Not sure if it happens now or not. I grew up in Bendigo, Victoria and cycling was always pretty big there. We had bike shops open up from people who went to the Olympics, they always did well. Also every Easter (I think) We had a Madison at the local velodrome and it was packed out every year.

im_no_pro wrote:Having done both (well I dont race bikes yet, but am thinking about it), IMO they are the same. Can be done on a budget, but much more fun to spend way more money than you need to

I kind of think the whole "Generation X Golf" crack about cycling has it's merits, but the thing about golf was that it was an aspirational sport - a bit of social climbing. Cycling doesn't seem to work that way. Money only buys you so much cycling ability - golf to me seemed like it was much more about the club after the round than it was about the golf itself.

It is kinda refreshing to sit down at the bowling club with a hugely disparate group of blokes after a race - tradies, professionals, retired guys, young kids etc. It seems more inclusive to me and less an exercise in making "connections" or those kinds of social climbing bollocks. Then again, it might just be where I live where it works like that.

So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gildingbut really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.

Hi,Yes there have been some great points, by all.And it is true that long distance racing can be boring, for sure, and especially if your the one doing it, it was for me.As the last poster (Martinjs) put it, Track, Madison, 6-Day racing and for the Roadies, Criteriums are great spectacles, and can be a great outing.In Australia in the 40's and 50's these were great events, and drewhuge crowds, so what changed. I knew Bill Long (sorry he passed on) andhe came through from the earlier period promoting cyclists and boxers.Test Cricket was boring, and it took a promoter to get One-Day going,and it pulled cricket out of the doldrums, and look now, what it's doing in India.As for Sports loving Aussies being watchers, there is plenty of action inTrack racing, in Europe, during my time, on the inner and the outer, bars,eating areas, bookies, Tote gambling (was big in Japan in the Early Kieran Era,at meetings in Scandinavia, and even middle-Europe... these I know of.)Criteriums, in Belgium, Holland and many other countries around drawbig crowds, historically, have many facilities, and can be a great day out.We have a good selection of riders here, many others could be broughtin, sponsors, promotion, might be all it takes.But there seems to be something underlying, holding all this up,and I can't quite put my finger on it. Is it that Cycling is just not "cool"..?to the Aussie punter.Would have thought with the massive increase of cyclists generally,more bike shops, much more money flowing through the system,and more higher profile competitors (local and international)that this should lead to a higher profile for the Sport.As some have pointed out, we all rode bikes as kids, Footyand Cricket take teams, but anyone can grab a bike, andhave a go, so what is it? If they want to compete.Sorry for the long post.CheersBrentonO

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

im_no_pro wrote:Having done both (well I dont race bikes yet, but am thinking about it), IMO they are the same. Can be done on a budget, but much more fun to spend way more money than you need to

I kind of think the whole "Generation X Golf" crack about cycling has it's merits, but the thing about golf was that it was an aspirational sport - a bit of social climbing. Cycling doesn't seem to work that way. Money only buys you so much cycling ability - golf to me seemed like it was much more about the club after the round than it was about the golf itself.

It is kinda refreshing to sit down at the bowling club with a hugely disparate group of blokes after a race - tradies, professionals, retired guys, young kids etc. It seems more inclusive to me and less an exercise in making "connections" or those kinds of social climbing bollocks. Then again, it might just be where I live where it works like that.

You obviously didnt play golf where I did.... Blokes walking around in stubbie shorts (including the president, who on occasion was know to drop his guts midway through presentations). We used to build 'beeramids' on the table over the course of a few hours. Old fellas, young kids, tradies, cops, bank managers, you name it, they were there. The 19th was equally important to the first 18

master6 wrote: Moderators are like Club Handicappers; I often think they are wrong, but I dont want the job.

Hi,Drubie, great quote "Money only buys you so much cycling ability" andmany around here would do well to take note, they talk about how manygrams their saving, when a bit of extra training, would surpass that.Equipment has gone through massive changes, from B.C. and I see onlyminimal, and sometimes nil, improvement in times (Track)... what's that?Cycle racing used to have a great social network, great times & parties,maybe that's changed these days, don't know..?Im_no_pro--- good point on the promotion of Tiger, and as stated, maybe that'swhere cycling is lacking these days (Promo), and the way the sport is presented. But will Tiger return, to defend, for no fee? Was in Thailand, when they offeredhim citizenship, he declined... not interested...(Telly, no worries, what about going to see a film, said as-Fillum... got to love it, it's Oz)Got to start with the kids, do many even ride a bike to school, any more?(I'm out of touch)GDT--- the recognition thing, came from a quote from Danny Clark when he returned from OSto Tassie, and elsewhere, he was unknown, yet in most places in Europe he was mobed (6-Day hero)he's a funny guy, and straight up. And I thought everyone knew everyone else in Tassie..?CheersBrentonO

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

Good subject, its something Ive thought about since getting into cycling more recently.

People like to go and watch a game of aussie rules footy, from the local chubby blokes gasping for life right upto the AFL professional athletes. They have no interest in playing in a team themselves, they just like the game and maybe having a kick in the park with mates/kids ect. All this is perfectly normal and a widely accepted pastime.

Then you have cycling, now I can only see it from my limited experience so take this with a grain of salt. But it seems different, in that if you want to wear "the gear" maybe have a nice bike and even shave the ol legs then you must be interested in racing. The idea of being a cycling spectator that has no interest in racing themselves, but who likes to ride just for the fun of it when it suits them seems to get you the rolled eyes or the strange looks. Sometimes theres no harm intended, I think they just honestly dont understand.

Of course being raised with Aussie rules footy ive allways followed it a little[Hawks supporter since the late 80's] But never played a game in my life but that doesnt stop me knowing most if not all the rules of the game and some of the in's and outs of it all. Well as much as an armchair "expert" can ever know But with the sport of cycling, it gets so little coverage in comparison. Right from the school playground/sports fields..up to the elite level, cycling just doesnt get a look in compared to other sports[most ballsports I guess] All this makes it harder to get to know the sport and understand the in's and outs a bit better.

A very good question Brenton0. I wish I had an answer that made any sense.

As kids, we nearly all ride bikes for both transport and fun. Maybe many of us see them as toys with no real sporting value as we get older.

How did you progress from riding for fun to riding as a serious sporting pursuit? Your own story must shed some light on why some people get into it as a proper sport while most Aussies never do. (I have always used my bikes for transport until I took up MTB riding, but then that was once again as a toy. I never competed - just fanged around the bush ... )

Cheers,Graeme

Think outside the double triangle.---------------------------------------Imagine a world with no hypothetical scenarios.

Kalgrm wrote:As kids, we nearly all ride bikes for both transport and fun. Maybe many of us see them as toys with no real sporting value as we get older.

I rode everywhere as a kid, right up until I got my licence and started sucessfully wooing the opposite sex - no car meant no date or awkward "meet you at..." dates.

Cycling for sport never was on the radar, I knew exactly one kid at high school who raced and I would bet the numbers haven't changed in 30 years judging by the number of high school aged juniors in the local club.

It isn't a high visibility sport for a teenager, whereas the numbers involved in codes of rugby and soccer dwarf the cyclists.

So we get the leaders we deserve and we elect, we get the companies and the products that we ask for, right? And we have to ask for different things. – Paul Gildingbut really, that's rubbish. We get none of it because the choices are illusory.

Baldy,Not misguided, spot on... good one, and I agree with you,knowledge of the sport can only come from the media, and the way it is promoted and presented from the managing bodies for Cycling.Apart from SBS, Cycling is ignored by the commercialTelly media. Possibly, now with the net, if peoplesinterest could be sparked, they could reseach andlearn about the sport, themselves.RedBull,Can see you have never been to a Cycling track meet(well it used to be this way)... there's heaps of that.Can still remember some wives/mother's- very vocal.And have had a words to officials, more than once, myself (smile) as you might have guessed.Graeme,My story, is a long one, and probably not that interesting,let's just say, my father was a fanatic, and my firstsights, were probably the inside of a bike shop, orviewing a bike race, on another thread, Sratchman talkedof the Olympic Boards, my first memory, was as a kid,under the track, listening to the racing above, the noisewas awesome. I had no choice, I was bred to race.Shaun,On the dope, it's minimal, and just another media, bashup.Never touched it, saw people that did, it was a different methodin my day, what they did, shortened their career, drastically.Drubie,Laugh- wooing, and bikes, it worked for me, Great!Another long post, sorry.CheersBrentonO

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

brentono wrote:Hi,Yes there have been some great points, by all.And it is true that long distance racing can be boring, for sure, and especially if your the one doing it, it was for me.As the last poster (Martinjs) put it, Track, Madison, 6-Day racing and for the Roadies, Criteriums are great spectacles, and can be a great outing.In Australia in the 40's and 50's these were great events, and drewhuge crowds, ........

You would have liked the HUGE and enthuisiastic crowd enjoying the action of the criteriums at Noosa multisport a few weeks ago.Admittedly such a spectacle depends on a number of factors. Tens of thousands of runners and cyclists were in Noosa that weekend and there is probably no better place to watch a cycle race than Noosa Heads on a pleasantly sunny late afternoon.

I think track and criteriums are a wonderful spectacle most of the time.Unfortunately we dont have many criteriums in brisbane and the velodrome is a good one but is open-air and too far out of town. And the track season is affected by summer heat and storms etc.

In Brissie we need a velodrome around the footy field at Suncorp Stadium.Then half-time in the A-League games could be put to good use - a few sprint repechages would be more interseting than the boys and girls in the inflatable tyres

"Technology gives us much more information but Education is never be able to give us the skill to evaluate it"

Elantra,Noosa sounds, great and it would seem you enjoyed it.Inner city criteriums, have always been good, and inAustralia, any city council would do well to promote it.As for those business people operating there, theirsponsorship and involvement could only help their cause.Inner city areas in most capitals are dead in the day,on weekends, one might expect (I know Perth is?)It could be brought alive, by a good promoter.Veledromes seem to always end up in the sticks,so it's a catch-22, in the heady days of the 40's & 50'stracks we're inner city, and in Europe there are manylike that. The Speedome in Perth is in woop-woop.Sounds like you know what your talking about, sotalk it up. Sprints and Madisons can be wild.Herzog,Bad media is against it (Cycling), and historically has been.Show me any major sport, that involves big money, that does not have a drug problem to some extent?Look at any, and we could all give examples.Cheers,BrentonO

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.

It's the team loyalty thing that does it for the AFL/League/Basketball/Soccer/Cricket fans. You see all sorts, most of whom never aspire to play the sport - old folks, very unfit types, housewives, grannies. They do it because it is tribal. Supporting the team is their culture, their identity.

Cycling doesn't have the same team factor to it, at least not in local road racing or track carnivals. I know there are team events but it's more about the individual to the specatators and to Joe Public.

And also, all of these popular spectator sports are all about handling balls . Cycling is regarded as causing pain to the balls

Riding bikes in traffic - what seems dangerous is usually safe; what seems safe is often more dangerous.

Il Padrone,Your team loyalties thing is a point, and granted, butyou are now contradicting yourself, from your point about Tiger,with a following in Australia, he's one individual and a yank..?There's old folks, very unfit types, housewives, grannies thatfollow individuals in Europe, and can follow cycling teams.While in Ghent, B.C. there was a young aussie boy (16) who hadhis own followers, who wore a t-shirt of him, and all donatedmonthy to his expenses, surreal... many old girls and young girlsamoung them... smile (not me, he was from Qld).Understood "Cycling is regarded as causing pain to the balls"... you should see mine? Wink, Wink, and Smile... not likely!CheersBrentonO

Lone Rider- I rode on the long, dark road... before I danced under the lights.