It's amazing. You talk like hacking isn't challenging at all...Hacking a rom is just as hard if not harder at times then creating your own game.

If you don't know how the rom works (Which...no one really does still...cept Geiger/Jlukas), it's hard to make it do what you want it to do...

I don't see how you think hacking shouldn't be considered real projects. I guess that's your opinion...but I can't believe people would go THAT FAR to actually say that..

"Basically the same game with a few alterations"...Aren't you oblivious...I guess creating your own story, text, graphics, music, SFX, new stuff that's never been in there is considered "few"...right.

I guess you could call all that ranting, but I honestly believe you don't know how hard it is to do this kind of stuff.

Edit: Friend read this page and commented this..

"Are you saying that it would be easier to continue someone else's story? Because mimicking a completely different writing style, grammar, sentence structure, and word preferences is definately harder than writing your own."

Originally posted by RathCrosse-Justin3009 as a response to Why not just write a game?

1) I'm not THAT experienced with programming.

Of course, since you're less experienced, you choose "as hard if not harder."

kuro2: We're not the hacker scene. Perhaps you mistyped a URL.

Pixel Joint is the Pixel Art scene, and as we have to deal often with theft of artwork since the medium is digital, the concensus is that it's immoral to create and publish derivative works without consulting the original author, if at all. If we can't contact them, we assume we can't use their work. So you shouldn't come here expecting almost the exact opposite opinion on your project, which, though it does take a huge amount of work and ingenuity, was not made from scratch by you. Don't take offense. You can't sell steak at a vegetarian convention.

Hacking is a heck of a project. But ROM hacking and plain hacking are far from the same. ROM hacking is the sprite editing of the programming world. Sure, you need to know how it was done originally. Sure, you have to be able work on the base you were provided. But at some point it's more reasonable to move beyond what other people have started and do something of your own, that you can feel is entirely yours.

If you just do it because it's harder, I can appreciate that. Masochism is great, and I'll personally help you tie your hands behind your back so you can use your PC with only your toes and face if you want.

"Are you saying that it would be easier to continue someone else's story? Because mimicking a completely different writing style, grammar, sentence structure, and word preferences is definately harder than writing your own."

I occasionally speak with an irish accent, because it's sexy. Sure, I could speak in my own voice, but I'd rather MOOCH OFF THE SUCCESS OF ANOTHER CULTURE to ADD ARTIFICIAL SEXINESS to my persona.

The point I'm trying to make is this: Though ROM hacking might be in some ways harder, you are still mooching off of not only the time, but the fanbase and predetermined style, let alone play style, battle system, and many other design aspects of the game that you're ROM hacking. You're not making a game (Your own project), you're taking an existing game, changing what, 20% of the game tops, and then attempting to call it your own.

THAT is why people are refusing to call it a real project. THAT is why people are advising you to make your own game. And it makes total sense. If some flying buttress tried to alter a piece of pixel art with only a 20% deviation from the original and then pass it off as their own, alarms would be raised.

That being said, I understand the appeal of more chrono trigger. I do believe you're taking the wrong way around it, though.

My name is Greg. I speak in an irish accent sometimes, but I do not claim it as my own.

"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."

20% at tops? I'm keeping the basics of the gameplay, that point is obvious. But I highly doubt that:

Tilesets

Music

NPCS

PCS

SFX

Techs

8th Character!

6 letters

Text

is 20%. That's almost half if not more then the game...

yet we are not loking down what you've done.

That's simply hard to believe with the way they're posting. Not to be rude, but they talk as if ROM hacking is simply nothing and Programming a game yourself is so much better and much more difficult etc etc...

I just honestly can't believe how these so people think that rom hacking is only graphics...Only way I can put it is, "You've got so much to learn".

The only way I can sum this up is that you have your opinion and I have mine. But I do recommend that you take the time and learn more about ROM hacking before you actually say it's purely graphics based...

Who said that we think that hacking is easy? That's why I said: "it's good to learn how to program. ". The problem is that game making is much more than knowing how the rom works, it's about making your own concept, creating likeable characters, make challenges, etc etc.

You talk like hacking isn't challenging at all...Hacking a rom is just as hard if not harder at times then creating your own game. <----- You said yourself that you are not very experienced at programming, pixeling and making stories. You haven't done a game of your own, hacking is never harder than making a game from scratch.

Usually rom hacking is harder to grasp and understand than regular programming. Erm, what? Your friend with the long name said that he isn't that skilled at programming, and now suddenly rom hackers do harder things than professional programmers?

Not to be rude, but they talk as if ROM hacking is simply nothing and
Programming a game yourself is so much better and much more difficult
etc etc... --> You can't blame people for speaking the truth.

Only way I can put it is, "You've got so much to learn".---> There are a few good programmers here that you could learn from, and you can use this site to polish your pixelling skills, if you are serious about game making.

Quit playing Dr. Frankenstein and learn to program like real men. Programming can be very very hard I assure you.

- You are truley an arrogant person. As I said, I don't have that much programming experience but I know how stressful it is. Do you honestly even bother to read what anyone says? Seems like you just completely ignore everything and post whatever you want.

And I have tried making my own game before...but not actually programming one because I've only started taking the classes this year. I do know how frustrating and stressful it is though..believe me there.

Erm, what? Your friend with the long name said that he isn't that skilled at programming, and now suddenly rom hackers do harder things than professional programmers?

Well this is what i'm trying to state. Programming YOUR OWN game is easier in alot of terms because you KNOW what you want to do, you KNOW what your going to do, you have it all planned out and exactly what you want...and you can just code it yourself.

Rom hacking is harder in that case because you have to understand the games mechanics and then try to modify it to what you want. I'm not saying ROM hacking is harder, i'm just stating that you can't disqualify hacking to not be a project just because it's not being made from scratch, or in this case, not to their likings.

I think Dra_Chan is the only person I can actually talk to in this topic that doesn't post some retarded or empty thought response. He at least explains everything and not just go "your not a man for not programming your own game! har har!". Exaggeration, but you should know that.

The case remains, a project is defined as a "large undertaking, something that is contemplated and devised". Rom hacking needs the same steps as making your own game does. You can't just not call it a project because your NOT programming it from scratch.

So to end this lame online "argument", we have our own opinions...Which i've said twice now but okay.

Well this is what i'm trying to state. Programming YOUR OWN game is easier in alot of terms because you KNOW what you want to do, you KNOW what your going to do, you have it all planned out and exactly what you want...and you can just code it yourself.

Rom hacking is harder in that case because you have to understand the games mechanics and then try to modify it to what you want. I'm not saying ROM hacking is harder, i'm just stating that you can't disqualify hacking to not be a project just because it's not being made from scratch, or in this case, not to their likings.

See, your first line there is where I beg to differ. Creating YOUR OWN game isn`t easier, because you have to spend hours figuring out what you want it to do, you have to spend absolute loads of time planning it out, steps in creating your own game that you`re just skipping, mooching off the work that someone else has done.

And I stand by my 20%. Why?

(Judging by the videos) You haven`t changed: - All of the monster graphics, weaknesses, statistics, etc. - All of the game maps, town names, townspeople sprites, - All of the boss battles - All of the items, their icons and statistics. - The spell trees, double techs and whatnot - Many, if any of the systems (Exp gain, coins, levels, etc). - So very much more.

To be fair, by the time you`re done you may have changed 20% of the game.

I don`t mean to be an asshole. I don`t mean to crush your dreams of creating a wickedawesome game, but I don`t think you have a clear idea of how much work goes into creating a game. Because of that, you don`t have much respect for the work done, which is probably why you`re rom hacking in the first place.

I encourage you to try make your own game. You`ll see how much damn work it is, and how untrue your first line is.

Edited by Saboteur - 28 March 2008 at 3:52pm

"I was minding my own business and walking across a pebbled path, and a Duck started giving me the business."

I must admit RathCrosse i doubt you'll get much help for hacking roms here, especially after this argument. I'm not quite sure what you expected from this thread but it's main topic seems to revolve around a debate now. Sorry to say.

There're many forums online that'd happily divulge into and help you with what you're doing, this just isn't one of them. It's a pixelart site afterall. I hope you understand.

Locking because you won't be able to revive this thread and i think everyone's said what they need to.

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