Gen 2 Trying to build the "standard" Ubers team

There's only so much you can do with a GSC Ubers team. There's at least 3 mandatory Pokemon, as many as 5 depending on who you talk to, after all. So a single "standard Ubers team" is most likely a thing that exists. However, I often end up getting stuck on what to use for those last few Pokemon slots, and some Pokemon, such as Ho-oh and Mewtwo, I can't really seem to decide on what the best set should be (the former I struggle with because Sacred Fire is the main reason to use it and nothing else really seems appealing, the latter because it has classic 4mss).

So, Imma post what I think seems like a good candidate for the "standard" GSC Ubers team and see what y'all think.

Mewtwo @ Leftovers
- Thunder
- Fire Blast
- Selfdestruct
- Psychic

Mewtwo has classic 4mss. I opted for a set with Fire Blast because I know how annoying Steelix can be for an Ubers team. I need Thunder to, if nothing else, make Lugia a little uncomfortable about switching/staying in, plus it can paralyze other Mew(two) which is nice. SelfDestruct lets me outspeed and take out any weakened thing I want, and since Mewtwo is one of the few thing in Ubers that can actually kill stuff, it's pretty necessary. Psychic is what remains to try to hit whatever I can manage hard. It's more accurate (albeit a bit weaker) than Submission for Snorlax, it hits both Zapdos and Raikou for 3HKOs, and from what I've seen Umbreon and Tyranitar are pretty rare. I've thought about using Recover, Curse, Submission/Dpunch, and Ice Beam, too, but those sets all have their shortcomings, too. The set I've picked looks to me like it's best able to handle the common things of GSC Ubers.

Lugia @ Leftovers
- Aeroblast
- Curse
- Whirlwind
- Recover

It's Lugia, the main reason Snorlax is kind of mediocre in Ubers and the main thing keeping most standard OUs out of Ubers contention. This thing never dies. The set is pretty self-explanatory, in the endgame it can pretty easily set up a bunch of Curses and go crazy. Aeroblast is necessary for the power, both with Curses and without, even if the PP is shit. Just don't attack unless you need to hammer on a Mew or something or unless you've hit +6. I've considered lowering Speed EVs to outslow Steelix after a Curse, but Steelix can easily win the Speed anti-creep war and I lose out on outspeeding Mew before a Curse and Snorlax after a Curse.

Mew @ Leftovers
- Submission
- Shadow Ball
- Swords Dance
- Explosion

Ubers' ultimate wallbreaker. SD up, smash things if the opponent is careless, and go boom on something your attacks can't quite smash. I use Shadow Ball over Rock Slide because I'd rather hit Celebi/Other Mew/Mewtwo and bait Zapdos into the Explosion than the other way around; Celebi is not a threat at all, whereas the others aren't really defensive and it'd suck to be forced to boom on them "defensively". I used to think Exploding on Zapdos wasn't ideal because it wasn't "true uber", but after playing against it a few times and getting my balls rocked I'm totally fine with getting it out of the way. Zapdos being gone also makes the endgame much easier for Lugia.

Mono-normal Lax struggles to get by Steelix, but can give fits to anything else. Curse lets Snorlax force the opponent into making plays, since Double-Edge doesn't do enough to most things without the boost (and Mew can easily set up and smash with +2 Submissions without the defense boosts). LK is the main reason to use Lax imo, as it's the only truly viable sleeper in Ubers. Finally, SelfDestruct lets me take out a wall after Steelix is gone, which admittedly might be a tall order from an Ubers team with no Spikes support. At the very least, Lax can put that sonuvabitch to sleep so that Lugia doesn't get immediately phazed when it starts to Curse.

Celebi @ Leftovers
- Toxic
- Leech Seed
- Recover
- Heal Bell

I don't really like Celebi in Ubers, it can't really do anything but Heal Bell. However, Heal Bell is almost mandatory with this team as it has no Sleep Talkers and LK, burn, and para are everywhere. Furthermore, this thing can actually stand up to Zapdos and the PsychoCats, so it's better than Miltank imo. Heal Bell is the reason I use this, and Leech Seed + Recover let it try to stall certain things. Toxic is there to make it not totally useless against threats that try to capitalize on it; that residual damage can be handy, especially for wasting an opposing Celebi's Heal Bells if it comes to that. I've waffled with Perish Song in Toxic's or Leech Seed's slot, but the 8PP sounds awful, losing Toxic means I can do literally nothing to anything that switches in (Seed doesn't do anything until the turn after, very easy to stall without being punished), and losing Leech Seed makes me lose my stalling ability and any way to get residual damage on Steels/already-poisoned foes. I guess I could try Zapdos in this slot, but I feel safer being able to get rid of Burn/Para on the other guys than just have something to switch into potential burns/para, even if the bump in offensive momentum is notable.

Steelix (M) @ Leftovers
- Iron Tail
- Curse
- Explosion
- Roar

I've played against Steelix before. It's a pain. It's mandatory, imo, if you want to live against Explosion-based teams (which this team is). It's also immune to Electric, so fuck you Zapdos! Anyway, the set is pretty basic. Roar to let it check Lugias, Curse to let it threaten things, Iron Tail because it's a far better STAB than EQ with Lugia/Ho-oh/Zapdos/Skarmory/Celebi all over the place (even if EQ is more accurate and able to hit other Steelix), and Explosion to let it *actually* murder things with its Curse boosts (Iron Tail ain't usually doing the job, sorry). I might consider using EQ over Iron Tail to keep other Steelix from walling me, especially since Steelix on offense is usually just looking to explode on something. At the same time, though, being forced to Explode on Zapdos or Lugia at +6 doesn't sound all that cool.

Any thoughts on what Pokemon/moves would be better for the "standard" Ubers team?

If I were to drop Explosion to make room for two attacking moves, one will definitely be Rock Silde, since it gets Zapdos, Skarmory and Ho-oh (and helps against Lugia too). The other move would likely be EQ since it has 100% accuracy and a better coverage than IT when used with rock slide (you are not gonna get past Celebi anyway). Actually, I have tried a Slide HPug set and it was actually pretty good, at least until people got used to seeing Steelix everywhere and started running their own EQ Steelix or fire blast snorlaxes.

Not much to say about the team itself, it's very standard. Standard sets and mhm, Toxic Celebi, I have never tried it, but I guess it's fine since it basically has no other option other than... PSong, which is what I've always used on Celebi but yeah, psong is... psong, it does what it does and you generally won't need it anyway.

Uhm, actually, Raikou may be better than Zapdos as the "meta" stands right now. Lugia just never uses EQ and I don't remember the last time I saw a Ho-oh with EQ either (if I did ever see one). Okay, Steelix is a pain, at least those that run EQ (lol what's actually more common on steelix, EQ or RS?). In return, Raikou isn't weak to Rock Slide and Ice Beam and walls Zapdos perpetually. But oh well, I have always considered Rock Slide Mew and Ice Beam Psychic-less Mewtwo the standard sets so whatever; Against your Mew and Mewtwo sets Raikou basically makes no difference. Oh and Raikou is weak to spikes which is really not a good thing (spikes can be pretty good in ubers tbh).

Steelix isn't even good in OU. also it can't do anything to Zapdos anyway so who cares if it's not weak to HP Ice

Toxic sucks too but whatever. Have you considered just not using Recover on Celebi? Eggy gets by pretty damn well with just Leech Seed (plus sometimes Giga Drain) and it has shitty SpD, I imagine Celebi would do just fine and it gives you another moveslot to play with... although really I'm not sure what besides said Giga Drain or a Hidden Power, neither of which are that useful. Perish Song necessitates Recover and Baton Pass is also useless on its own.

Any team with Leech Seed should also carry Spikes. I imagine Forretress is a bit more of a Steelix substitute than Cloyster is if that's really important. Both get Explosion too, though neither get Roar.

Hidden Power isn't as common on Ubers Zapdos. If it is running Hidden Power, it's Water, as Ice does not do nearly enough to kill Celebi to make Ice worth it. Otherwise, it's using Drill Peck or just forgoing coverage altogether. Also, different metagame, Ubers Steelix is definitely legit, better than OU Steelix imo, if for no other reason than because it tanks the shit out of the Explosions that basically define offense in Ubers.

Spikes or no, Leech Seed Celebi is going to be alarmingly mediocre. I use it mostly because Celebi hardly has anything better to do after Heal Bell. Speaking of Spikes, Forry just doesn't quite cut it for me, the lack of an Electric immunity is pretty big in Ubers, not to mention that Forry can't phaze Lugia. I just plan to bomb.

I use curse on mewtwo over thunder(albeit I question if psychic is even useful) to trade with lugias and stuff, and perish song over toxic (albeit anything works, baton pass might be better). And zapdos over steelix. Works for me, haven't changed in 6 years.

Steelix isn't even good in OU. also it can't do anything to Zapdos anyway so who cares if it's not weak to HP Ice

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Ubers ain't OU, though. Steelix's Psychic resistance actually matters in Ubers thanks to Celebi/Mewtwo, and it's a better physical wall than Skarm with Whirlwind Lugia around. Also shuts down shit like Tyranitar, which hits every single Uber super-effectively and resists most of their STABs (Mew's the only other thing on that team that can really hurt it).

Have you considered just not using Recover on Celebi?

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Celebi's the main way of unparalysing and unburning stuff, and with the amount of Thunders and Sacred Fires flying around Ubers combined with the relative lack of Rest users, that's rather important.