From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 10:35:13 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Ernie O'Byrne"
Subject: Littonia modesta
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:19:30 -0000
The Littonia have a thin covering over the seed which is probably what rotted to create the mold. The seed should be fine. It is always desirable to clean any sort of coating off the seed, if it has one, before sowing. Some seed coats have germination inhibitors in them that could delay germination.
Ernie O'Byrne
Northwest Garden Nursery
86813 Central Road
Eugene OR 97402-9284USA
Phone: 541 935-3915
FAX: 541 935-0863
Eugene, Oregon is USDA Zone 8a on the map, but we can only grow Zone
7 plants reliably. Member of NARGS, SRGC, RHS, American Primula Society,
Meconopsis Group, Alpine-L, Arisaema-L, Hellebore Group
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 07:50:22 2002
Message-Id:
From: gerrit oskam
Subject: Pasithea
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 14:39:30 +0100
Dear Peter, Jane and all,
Pasithea proved to be a difficult plant for me to grow until I got the seed
collected by Flores & Watson a few years ago. These plants grow and flower very well and gave a lot of seed in 2001.
During the winter I try to keep them in an unheated greenhouse where they
get some frost (minus 2 or 3 degrees Celsius) despite the cover with double
layered plastic during frost periods.
Like many plants of the higher elevations they don't like high temperatures
either and I usually plunge the pots outside in a sandbed at the end of March.
During summer Pasithea can be kept quite dry like other Mediterranean
bulbs. An experienced grower once advised me to let the Mediterranean
things (Arum etc.) not become dust dry when dormant. I usually keep the
pots on a terrace where they receive they some moisture now and then.
Best, Gerrit Oskam, Netherlands zone 7-8
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 07:50:22 2002
Message-Id:
From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:10:23 EST
In a message dated 11/29/02 8:30:01 PM, janemcgary@earthlink.net writes:
<< In that connection, I would be interested to know if forum members prefer
to buy only flowering-size bulbs, or if they are also interested in smaller
bulbs at a lower price. >>
Jane,
YES!!! For the reasons Alberto mentioned and also since one can buy several
bulbs for the price of one there is more chance of at least one doing well,
or just the opportunity to perhaps see some variation in color or whatever.
I have sold countless thousands of mixed Amaryllis belladonna hybrid 3 year
old seedlings at the Farmers' Markets I do to ordinary gardeners to whom I
explain that they will have to wait at least a couple years for significant
bloom but this way they can get alot more for their money and I can produce
the bulbs incredibly cheaply as they are simply dug en masse from
direct-seeded beds and sold as is.
It is an approach that is great for both the producer and the consumer.
Best wishes,
Bill the Bulb Baron
William R.P. Welch
P.O. Box 1736
(UPS: 264 West Carmel Valley Road)
Carmel Valley, CA 93924-1736, USA
Phone/fax (831) 659-3830
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 07:56:50 2002
Message-Id:
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 10:54:23 EST
In a message dated 11/29/2002 11:30:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, janemcgary@earthlink.net writes:
Possibly I am having better luck with my Calochortus collection because it
is colder here, and they are inhibited from growth above ground during the
wettest months. I get lots of seed from most of the species I grow and am
building up a stock of seedlings to distribute when they get a little more
size on them.
Mark Mazer reported difficulty with Eremurus seeds. These typically
germinate after TWO periods of cold chilling; that is, they go through two
winters and appear above ground (I don't know if they are hypogeal like
many Liliaceae and form a radicle below ground the first winter) the second
spring after planting. Josef Halda once told me that the seed pots should
be dried off during the first summer, but I don't know if this is really
necessary. I have grown only wild-collected seeds of Eremurus, and the
germination percentage is not high. The rhizomes take about 5 years to
reach flowering size.
Hi Jane:
Sowings of Calochortus tolmei and amoenus have germinated poorly, one of greenii looks OK, one not. All the rest are growing. First sowings were made in late 1997 early '98, have yet to see a bud. The Ratko list should be here soon, there will be plenty of opportunity to do it again.
I did notice that repotting can set them back a few weeks, C. catalinae was always first in growth until repotting this past summer.
Eremurus were brought indoors and put under a bench where it can go to just above freezing during the winter. One pot had a small Monocot seedling in it and was put on a NE (coolish) bench, for now. I always keep seed pots at least three years.
The past ten days have seen flushes of Crocus germinating from sowings made last Fall/Winter.One sowing of Morea villosa has germinated well, one poorly, one not at all. Recalling past discussions on Cyrtanthus, had 80-90% germination on 12 species received early last winter from Silverhill, sown the easy way. Later arrivals have not fared as well.
The Massonia depressa are 17" (43cm) across, have rooted into the plunge, and should be in profuse sticky sweet bloom shortly.
Lachenalia viridflora is in bloom, unicolor in a few days. Looks like there will be an excellent display of Lapeirousia oreogena this year and perhaps some of the Sparaxis grandiflora subspecies.
Best regards,
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 10:35:13 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: Littonia modesta
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 09:51:43 -0800 (PST)
Hi,
I received some seeds of Littonia modesta in the last BX (thanks, Cathy!) and I'm hoping someone might have tips for starting them.
The mix I tried was apparently too damp; after just a few days, they began to show a little mold. I've cleaned them off and I don't think they're much worse for the wear, but what should I do with them now?
Thanks!
Jennifer
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 11:03:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Pasithea
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 10:23:06 -0800
Dear All,
My original seed came from Jim Forrest in New Zealand who I suspect got his
seed from Flores & Watson. My comment about thinking it might need some
water during dormancy just came from my observation that the ones I planted
in a summer dry raised bed never came back. I have since given my dormant
pots occasional summer water and have had good luck. Mine stay outside all
the time so get heavy winter rain and occasional freezing temperatures. I
move them to the shade for summer. I guess I am going to need to try
planting one out again and see what happens.
Mine bloom in May and June which once again is later than in the UK. This
year I repotted into a larger pot and looked at it carefully and it
reminded me of some of those Australian geophytes with their amazingly
strange underground storage organs. From memory I'm not sure I can describe
it, but if Peter calls it a rhizome maybe it also has tuberous roots while
in growth.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 11:03:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 10:26:57 -0800
Reading Mark's message and Georgie/Diana's message reminds me of how our
own microclimates may affect our success with seeds. Calochortus amoenus is
one of my successes from seed. Even last year I didn't lose that species.
Calochortus tolmiei is more problematic for me. It is one of my favorite
Calochortus and grows locally. Mine often dwindle. Some years I have no
luck with it, but seed last year didn't germinate until February and March
so didn't go down in the wet. I have my fingers crossed they will return.
If you are interested in Calochortus and are not a member Mark you should
join the Mariposa Society. As Georgie says their seed policy is extremely
generous so you can afford to experiment and there is no better place to
learn about each species. Mark also was successful with Lapeirousia
oreogena which I can't get to come up.
No one has responded to the question of growing Crocus from seed. I too
have had germination sometimes the following year or 4 or 5 months after
sowing. Any help from the experts? Or is this to be expected.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 19:54:46 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 11:49:40 -0800
Mary Sue asked,
>No one has responded to the question of growing Crocus from seed. I too
>have had germination sometimes the following year or 4 or 5 months after
>sowing. Any help from the experts? Or is this to be expected.
I am not an expert but have grown about 60 species from seed, so will
respond. Crocus germination patterns are as varied as crocuses are.
Remember that some bloom in fall, and they grow in every sort of habitat
from bare desert to alpine bogs, and in climates ranging from frost-free to
severely continental.
Seed planted before January and left outdoors but covered typically
germinates around March here. Seed planted later may germinate in late
spring, in which case it grows through the summer. Some species typically
germinate the second year no matter when you plant them.
It is advisable to keep the seedlings in their seed pots (supplying weak
fertilizer while in growth, and not drying them off severely while dormant)
for two years because the corms are so small. I also think all species
should be protected from severe freezing while in growth as seedlings, even
species like C. vernus that are extremely cold-hardy.
I suspect that failure of seed to germinate is probably the result of
rotting (if the seed was good to start with -- it can be hollow when you
get it), so a very well drained medium is useful. Also, some of the
wet-growing species may be intolerant of the seed becoming dried out; I
suppose that is why I have not been able to germinate C. pelistericus on
the two occasions I have obtained seed from exchanges. However, C.
scharojanii (wild-collected) has germinated here, though it has not yet
flowered for me.
Jane McGary
Northwest Oregon
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 15:33:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW - Crocus seed
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:29:45 -0500
>
> No one has responded to the question of growing Crocus from seed. I too
> have had germination sometimes the following year or 4 or 5 months after
> sowing. Any help from the experts? Or is this to be expected.
>
> Mary Sue
Mary Sue et al.,
Crocus are relatively straight-forward from seed, generally germinating the
late fall-early spring after sowing. Pretty much all of my seed of
fall-flowering crocus is now up, barring a few stragglers. The spring
flowerers will be germinating between now and February/March. Because of
this 'winter' germination pattern I like to keep my crocus seed pots from
freezing through - once germinated (and still below the top-dressing) the
seedlings are very vulnerable and can be killed if they freeze when wet.
Mine are kept in a greenhouse which gets to 32F but not much below. As soon
as they germinate they come into the big greenhouse which is kept a little
warmer but has strong forced ventilation. They do need a certain pattern to
germinate - warm then cold - but if they miss that they will wait a year.
Last fall was very warm until December and very few germinated, they are all
up this year. Cyclamen did exactly the same. If it hasn't germinated after
two winters then you can be pretty sure it was no good. I do find a
proportion of crocus seed that looks the part just doesn't germinate -
frequently rots the summer after sowing. No idea why this should be.
J
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 15:33:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Difficult Seed- PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:27:39 +0000
Dear all:
Crocus seed do exactly as John has explained. It is cold that
triggers germination, which is fairly uniform is seed is good. Fall blooming
species germinate earlier in my experience. Seed that rots in summer
contains a dead embryo.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 19:54:46 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Littonia modesta out of topic
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 23:35:54 +0000
Dear Jennifer:
You are sowing at the wrong time of the year. Littonia seed
must be sown in Spring and given warmth until germination takes place (which
is usually very good). A mix for it should be very well drained. Small very
poisonous pea size tubers will have formed by the time the plants go dormant
in Fall. Store them dry for the winter under frost free conditions to
restart in Spring in bigger pots. The scarlet pulp that covers the actual
seed must be removed before sowing (easy in tepid water).
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 19:54:46 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Difficult Seed- PBS TOW
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 20:34:12 -0500
Alberto,
What would cause a dead crocus embryo ? Is it a defect during seed
production or some subsequent event that has caused the embryo to die. Is
it in my hand s or the hands of the Maker ?
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 20:08:26 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Littonia modesta out of topic
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 2002 20:08:28 -0800
Hi Jennifer,
You can count on the fact that everyone on the robin knows more about the
technicality of germinating seeds than I do. However, let me just do a
little supposition here to satisfy my need for logic. My L. m. bloomed this
summer, produced the seed pods (very slow to ripen), pods broke open, I
collected the seed and sent it to the BX and Dell sent them out. So here we
are in the fall. In nature presumably the seeds would have fallen to the
ground near the base of the plant. Then the winter rains would have
gradually washed off the seed coating (or it would have just rotted off over
the winter). Thereafter, in spring, the seed would normally germinate.
I kept a couple of the L.m. seeds and potted up the mother bulb (wait till
you see the photo of this!) into a larger pot with new soil (plus some
pumace and a little sponge rok) and just poked the seeds into the same pot
about an inch down. This worked last year and I didn't lose any sleep
fretting over whether to plant them now, how to store them until the spring,
or what to do about the seed coat.
Things are so hectic around here that if it can't be done expeditiously, it
doesn't get done at all.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
>
From ???@??? Sun Dec 01 22:59:15 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Pacific Microclimates
Date: Sun, 01 Dec 2002 21:04:08 -0800
Dear Diana, Georgie, and Jane,
I find microclimate a really interesting topic and I hope others will
respond to it. Georgie described my climate pretty well, except during
summer we are often above the fog. Just a couple of miles away from me
rainfall is significantly less. As Georgie says the clouds just sit over
our house dumping rain when it rains so we get a lot more. In summer
temperatures are sometimes 10-20 degrees F. warmer than five minutes away
at the ocean. Near the ocean in summer there is more wind or more fog.
Often it is one or the other. Although you think of it being warmer in
winter close to the ocean sometimes the cold settles in low places nearer
the ocean and because I am in the forest the trees provide some protection.
So I have had the experience where a plant I have grown that I have shared
with a friend living closer to the ocean has suffered frost damage when its
sibling in my garden has not.
So if you looked up information by zipcode or if Gualala were on that nifty
site Mark shared with us you still wouldn't get the whole picture.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 07:16:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 07:19:16 EST
In a message dated 12/1/2002 1:39:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, msittner@mcn.org writes:
>Mark also was successful with Lapeirousia oreogena which I can't get to come up.
Hi Mary Sue:
None of the Lapeirousia have been strong germinators, somewhere between 5 and 25% seems typical.
I am growing L. fabricii, pyramidalis, tenuis, jacquinii, plicata, sandersonii, silenoides in addition to L. oreogena.
L. grandiflora, divaricata and another sowing of plicata have not germinated yet.
Best regards,
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 07:16:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Patricia Brooks"
Subject: small bulbs for sale
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 08:46:49 -0500
I also would like to buy a smaller bulb for the reason that I could buy
more then one. I may be able to buy two different items. The people who
live on a fixed income would appreciate that.
Pat
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 07:16:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Ornithogalum--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 07:54:42 -0800
Ornithogalum is a genus of plants with bulbs, leafless stem, leaves linear
to lanceolate to oblanceolate, inflorescence a raceme, ovary superior, six
free tepals, six stamens, fruit a capsule, seeds black, flat . It belongs
into the family Hyacinthaceae. This genus has very many species but is
practically unknown in cultivation except for the yellow and orange species
of group A. The group C in particular has a number of striking species ,
small compact plants with rather large flowers, excellent for pot
cultivation. The flowers of all have a silky texture that is very attractive.
From the cultivation point there are three distinct groups
A)The autumn-winter-spring growers from S. W. South Africa. They are mostly
Spring bloomers.They demand intense sunlight and rather frost free
conditions. Dry summer dormant. Tender
B) The spring-summer-autumn growers from hot subtropical to tropical
Africa, mostly late Spring/summer bloomers. Most demand intense sunlight
and frost free to hot conditions. Dry winter dormant. Tender
C) The autumn-winter-spring growers from the countries around the
Mediterranean Sea, mostly Spring bloomers. They demand sunlight and cool
growing conditions and are hardy to very hardy.
Note from Mary Sue:
Alberto has provided us with the introduction to the topic of the week.
Several of you wanted to talk about this genus and I hope those of you who
suggested it will ask your questions and share your experiences. Who grows
Ornithogalum and which species? Group A? Group B? Group C? Do you grow them
in the ground or containers? Do they come back (or come up every year?)
Remember to include where you live. When this topic was nominated, one
person wrote:
Ornithogalum that persist in the garden and what conditions they like.
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 16:56:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Ornithogalum--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 10:15:06 -0800
I grow only the group of Ornithogalum species described as follows in
Alberto Castillo's introduction:
>C) The autumn-winter-spring growers from the countries around the
>Mediterranean Sea, mostly Spring bloomers. They demand sunlight and cool
>growing conditions and are hardy to very hardy.
I've tried a few of the South African species outdoors but they did not
survive the winters here, where typical lows are around 15 F/minus 10 C,
with much lower temperatures about every four years. Only O. dubium is
ornamental enough to merit greenhouse space, and bulbs I have purchased
have not been healthy (I believe it is susceptible to virus), so I don't
have it now.
The species I am growing in the garden and/or bulb frame are: Oo. balansae
(syn. oligophyllum), chionophilum, fimbriatum, lanceolatum, longibracteatum
(S. African), narbonense, nutans (received as O. arcuatum), orthophyllum,
platyphyllum, ponticum, pyrenaicum, reverchonii, sintenisii, sphaerocarpum,
umbellatum, and an unidentified sp. from Thessaly. Some of these names may
represent overlapping entities, since I grew a lot of them from seed
purchased from Czech collectors, who often use Russian floras that don't
coincide entirely with western European lists. All these species can
withstand at least a few degrees of frost, and some (e.g., nutans,
orthophyllum, ponticum, pyrenaicum, umbellatum) are undoubtedly hardy to at
least zero F/minus 18 C. O. umbellatum, commonly called "Star of
Bethlehem," is naturalized in parts of the USA.
The most interesting to me are those that flower on very short stems, such
as O. balansae and O. fimbriatum. These are slow to increase and would be
appropriate for a mild-climate rock garden. O. orthophyllum is like a
short-stemmed version of O. umbellatum. O. reverchonii is often regarded as
the gem of the genus (perhaps because it is rare in the wild?), but its
foliage is not too attractive (it is a crevice plant in nature and hangs
down). O. nutans has pendent flowers with gray-green stripes on the
outside, subtly attractive. The most ornamental for the border are O.
narbonense and the similar but less amenable O. ponticum, which are rather
tall with bright white flowers in a long spike. The green O. pyrenaicum is
very easily grown and appealing as a curiosity. O. umbellatum is most
useful for naturalizing in rough grass.
In summary, the Eurasian ornithogalums, all white or green flowered, fall
into three general groups in terms of form: short ones, tall ones with
broad racemes, and tall ones with long, slender racemes. They are easily
grown from seed, which is usually set by garden plants though not always in
abundance. Some increase rapidly by offsets, and others don't. They do not
seem to be attacked by any pests, including slugs and rodents, so they are
good "insurance" if the showier bulbs get eaten. The tall ones tend to
flower in late spring or early summer (O. ponticum is the last to bloom)
and the short ones in late winter.
Jane McGary
Northwest Oregon, USA
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 13:23:34 2002
Message-Id:
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: Ornithogalum--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 15:40:13 EST
Hi:
This topic dovetails quite nicely with a current concern of mine, Ornithogalum mosaic virus and Lachenalia.
I was wondering how common this virus is, and if it infects other Ornithogalum besides Ornithogalum thyrsoides?
Where else does it occur besides South Africa and California? I believe Mary Sue lost a Lachenalia aloides selection and John Bryan mentioned it as a liability regarding the selection of bulbs for a public planting in South California. Veld and Flora recently noted the difficulty of maintaing clean Lachenalia breeding stocks in SA.
Regards,
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 13:35:17 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Growing from Seed--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:22:51 -0800
Dear All,
Cathy, Littonia modesta is an Eastern Cape species which means that it
grows where there is very little winter rainfall and is dormant in winter.
In Southern California there often isn't much winter rainfall so it would
might work for you to put the seeds in the pot with the mother bulb and
just leave it. I keep the two or three of these summer growers I have dry
in my greenhouse during winter and that seems to work. Rachel told me she
can grow Gloriosa outside in Cape Town, but my only attempt to do that was
never seen again. I tried it on my deck this year and it wasn't happy there
either so greenhouse seems to suit it best. Wet and cold might make the
seeds rot.
On the other hand I have the following story to tell about how starting at
the wrong time worked. I got some seed of Eucomis from Rhoda when I was in
South Africa. She suggested I start half of it right away and half of it at
the correct time in the spring. When I questioned why, she said the seed
was old and might not still be viable in spring. If it was started in fall
I should try to keep it growing through the summer and would be ahead of
the game in size of the bulb. I followed her advice and started one batch
in October and one in late February. The ones I started in October came up
in March and grew when they normally would be growing. The ones in February
never germinated. Now I kept that seed pot damp, but the seed did not come
up until it normally would have.
It does seem logical if seed falls on the ground in nature and waits for
the precise moment to germinate that we should be able to do that too. The
trouble is that what that seed experiences in its native habitat may be
very different than what we are providing it.
On the other hand people keep telling us about seeds of winter growing
species that need a warm dry period before germinating and perhaps we
should be planting those right away and instead of waiting until fall.
Harold Koopowitz told us to plant Muscari seeds when ripe and then leave
them dry all summer. That of course works if ripe seeds are available. I
don't know if this would also be a good idea for those that arrive from
seed exchanges in late winter-early spring.
While looking for something else, I found that Rachel wrote that Albuca
seeds were very short lived so that may be part of Mark's problem with
them. The ones Tom gave to one of our earlier BX are now up for me. And
Mark I have grown Moraea villosa from seed from quite a few sources and it
germinates quite easily under my system of warm days provided by my
greenhouse and cool nights.
As for Laperiousa there must be a trick if Mark also has low germination.
Alberto suggested I start a fire in the greenhouse (controlled of course)
and shut all the vents to fill it with smoke. I probably should have tried
that but we are having warm days and my vents are open and difficult to
close manually. People have burn piles here in the fall which adds to the
air pollution greatly and I haven't gotten the courage to bring my
ungerminated pots to one of those and place them where the smoke would hit
them for a day or two. One of these days I will. So far this year L.
arnicola, fabricii, and pyramidalis pyramidalis are coming up with more
than one or two (my usual is 0-2 seeds per pot.) The one exception that I
have concluded has to be something else because it is growing so well is
Laperiousia corymbosa (from Silverhill Seeds.) It germinated well and the
second year when I dumped out the pot I counted 175 corms from the one
packet. Could be kind of scary. I am hoping whatever it is will bloom this
year. The leaves look big enough.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 13:23:35 2002
Message-Id:
From: Harold Koopowitz
Subject: Ornithogalum--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 02 Dec 2002 13:54:29 -0800
Some orns are more susceptible than others, O. dubium is quite
susceptible others like O. conicum seem less.
Harold
Harold Koopowitz
Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
University of California, IRVINE, CA 92697
USA
Tel: 949-824-8511
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 16:56:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Ornithogalum PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 00:42:48 +0000
Dear Jane et al:
n the group of tender winter growing Cape Ornithogalums
besides dubium you have O. maculatum that is very attractive. A number of
hybrids of this group was raised years ago in California in several yellows,
cream, buff, apricot, several oranges, salmons, etc. They were stunning.
Ornithogalum dubium specially should be grown in every bulb
collection as an indicator plant since (like Lachenalias)it is EXTREMELY
susceptible to viruses and show signs very soon.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Mon Dec 02 20:44:44 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: peach Clivia miniata
Date: Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:44:05 -0800 (PST)
Hi all,
Anyone interested in another group order for peach C. miniata?
I just read this advertisement on the clivia-enthusiast group:
Hallo, this year I pollinated all my best yellow miniatas with recessivepeach miniatas, for those of you who do not know, the recessive peachmutation or Chubb's Peach is dominant over group 1 yellow, although a smallpercentage of yellows can be expected due to selfpolination. The idea was to supply these seed to a client but the deal fell through and I was forced toplant all the seed, some 8000 seedlings. These seedlings are now at the 1-2 leaf stage, and because I do not have thespace to race all of them I have to sell as many as possible. This is your chance to buy some high quality peach seedlings for yourChristmas stocking. I will sell the seedlings in batches of 10 at the give away price of R500per batch, overseas buyers will require a phyto at R50 per order, and pleasefind out if you will require an import permit or not. Postage will depend on the quantity and method of shipping. Please order with me direct.
Jennifer
From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 07:23:26 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 18
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 06:40:18 -0400
Dear All,
The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for
sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me
PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 18" in the subject line.
Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify
quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system.
When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a
statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS
treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class
postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address
too, in case I don't already have it.
Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of
the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future
offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com
If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send
clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA,
18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for
their donations.
OFFERINGS:
Pacific BX 18:
(W = Winter-growing; S = Summer-growing)
SEED:
From Mark Wilcox:
1. Belamcanda chinensis ('blackberry lily') 'Hello Yellow' (S), a dwarf
form, growing about 1 foot high, 18 inches when in flower. They're
rhizomotous like Iris germanica, but are a short-lived perennial. Expect 3
to 4 years. They're easy to restart from seed stored in the fridge. They
tend to succumb to some kind of bacteria around the rhizomes here, which I
can stave off with chemicals. It might be boytritus (sp.?); I'm not sure.
2. xPardancanda norrisii (S) gets about 2.5 feet high, around 3 feet in
flower. Looks identical to B. chinensis in foliage, but the flowers will
be of all different colors. To some extent, the shape of the bloom is
variable as well.
From Roy Sachs:
3. Alstroemeria hybrids (S?) (see end of this page for Roy's commentary)
From Charles Hardman:
4. Romulea hartungii (W), blue
5. Romulea atrandra var esterhuyziae (W)
6. Romulea hirta (W), yellow
7. Romulea multisculata (W)
8. Romulea tortuosa subsp depauparata (W), yellow and brown
9. Romulea sp. (W) pale yellow
10 Romulea sp. (W) yellow
11. Romulea sp. (W)
12. Romulea tortuosa var tortuosa (W), yellow
13. Romulea sp. (W)
BULBS:
From Liz Waterman:
14. Ledebouria socialis (evergreen?)
Thank you, Mark, Roy, Charles, and Liz !!
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
In 1990 I purchased 3000 seed from Fred Meyer, a breeder of
alstroemeria located in coastal southern California, and was able to
obtain 60+ seed bearing plants from Leonard Carrier, another nearby
alstroemeria breeder. I know nothing about the origin of their
plants, nor even the names of the species (they could have
concentrated on hybrids already in the trade) that contributed to
their breeding programs. Both men are deceased and the whereabouts
of their notebooks is not known to me.
From this beginning my goal was to select for vigor in the field,
full sun and partial shade, and unheated, summer-shaded greenhouse in
a relatively hot, dry summer climate (temps in excess of 40 C are
common for long stretches in the Sacramento valley)
About 1500 seedlings from Meyer's seed were planted in the field and
greenhouse; seed from the most vigorous of these plants, about 300,
constitute the largest segment of the plants growing in Davis and
also at more coastal location (along the Russian river, 12 km inland
from the Pacific where average max temp in the summer is 26 C).
None of Leonard Carrier's plants (some with beautiful florets)
survived more than 3 years in a Davis greenhouse (unheated), but seed
were collected for at least 2 years and seedlings of these
collections survived in the field and greenhouse, although none had
the distinctive colors of the parents. They are now mixed with the
Meyer plants.
So the seed bearing populations that I have in Davis and along the
Russian river are some mix of these germ plasms. They are
open-pollinated (self- and cross-fertile; to the extent that I have
done selfing and crossing I can say this).
The largest portion of the seed come from the Russian River plants
because pollenizer (bee/hummingbird) activity is greatest at this
location.
There are some deep purple/magenta and raspberry red colors (as well
as some with less pigmentation that I call "whitish") in a few
seedlings but the majority produce florets in the light pink to dark
lavender range, not nearly as attractive to afficionados as seen in
the Dutch catalogs....but they may have better vigor in the garden.
Paul Tyerman and Mary Wise of the PBS have had success raising
seedlings from this seed source.
Roy
From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 07:23:25 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Ornithogalum--PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 11:40:22 +0100
Dear frends,
I grow here the following species in the open ground:
O umbellatum: In spite of the fact it has been banished from the catalog and
the garden, it persists still as a tenacious weed.
O narbonense. Very adapted to conditons here. Multiplies well from seed
O arabicum: superb decorative plant ( large raceme of pure white flowers with
a remarkable black ovary). Multiplies rapidly by offsets. moderately hardy(O
orthophylum, O pyramidalis on trial)
South african species:
O dubium mixed hybrids, mostly sterile, very often virus infected, not hardy
O longibracteatum: grows anywhere in any condition; but of very little
decorative interest
O thyrsoides. Multiplies well from seed, very adapted to our area. Here in
Europe often on offer in the wrongseaon (spring) which subsequently gives only
shotterm satification and a bad reputation.
O saundersiae: Not very happy in our medit climate; tends to rot during our
humid winters and need watering durng the winter. Will be abandoned from our
catalog
Kind regards
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous pouvez
commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi à partir de maintenant jusqu'au
fin mars.
(En fleur actuellement à l'extérieure: Cyclamen pseudibericum, Dahlia
imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiea, versicolor, masoniorum,
Nerine undulata, bowdenii'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Chinese sacred lily, Double, Moraea polystachya)
-
From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 08:48:49 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021203074611.00bf0aa0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Pacific BX 18
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 07:59:02 -0800
Dear All,
I think the Romulea seed from Charles Hardman gives everyone the
opportunity to practice how to key out plants. With the excellent online
article I referenced recently anyone who orders it can have a resource to
help. I bought some Romulea corms from Charles at the IBS auction and the
corms were not always the correct shape for the species on the tag. So I
have made notes for what the corm looks like and now await their bloom and
will try to figure out what they really are. Many Romuleas are wonderful so
I wouldn't be put off on getting the seed. I call mine Romulea sp. (id. as
Romulea atrandra from Hardman) and then I start looking at the description
of that one first and if it doesn't fit start at the beginning.
There are a lot of yellow Romuleas so those will give a lot of interesting
practice.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 08:48:49 2002
Message-Id: <3DECD58D.DCA71EB3@earthlink.net>
From: Elizabeth Waterman
Subject: Pacific BX 18 Ledebouria socialis
Date: Tue, 03 Dec 2002 08:02:21 -0800
The Ledebouria socialis have been evergreen in the
greenhouse (used to be a hothouse), but loose most to all of
their leaves outdoors in zone 9. Consider them tender.
They have survived a light frost but haven't been subjected
to anything worse. They have been planted with about 3/4 to
7/8 of the bulb above ground. Don't know how important that
is.
Liz
From ???@??? Tue Dec 03 22:09:11 2002
Message-Id:
From: Patricia Bender
Subject: peach Clivia miniata
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 2002 19:22:33 -0800
On Monday, December 2, 2002, at 08:44 PM, Jennifer Hildebrand wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Anyone interested in another group order for peach C. miniata? I just
> read this advertisement on the clivia-enthusiast group:
I see that the seller wants 500 Rand for ten plants. That is about
54.00, plus the cost of a permit (5.40), about 60.00 plus shipping and
handling. that is a very good price.
I hope you can get an order together, and thanks for offering.
Pat Bender
From ???@??? Wed Dec 04 06:56:19 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Growing from Seed--PBS TOW
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 09:26:50 +0100
Mary Sue Ittner a *crit :
>
> It does seem logical if seed falls on the ground in nature and waits for
> the precise moment to germinate ....seeds of winter growing
> species that need a warm dry period before germinating and perhaps we
> should be planting those right away and instead of waiting until fall.
> Harold Koopowitz told us to plant Muscari seeds when ripe and then leave
> them dry all summer.
Mary Sue et al,
Just to confirm these statements. I got the best results with sowing seeds
immediately when ripe (or even almost ripe). I had some very good expirenence
with the following species: Galanthus elwesii and many Cyclamen species.
Just look under the Cyclamen leaves to see the numerous seedlings
developing. Once I sown green seeds (capsules) of Brunsvigia Josephinaea
which gave 100% germination
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous pouvez
commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi à partir de maintenant jusqu'au
fin mars.
(En fleur actuellement à l'extérieure: Cyclamen pseudibericum, Dahlia
imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiea, versicolor, masoniorum,
Nerine undulata, bowdenii'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Chinese sacred lily, Double, Moraea polystachya, Lachenalia bulbifera)
-
From ???@??? Wed Dec 04 08:21:32 2002
Message-Id:
From: TGlavich@aol.com
Subject: Ornithogalum Questions
Date: Wed, 04 Dec 2002 10:41:45 -0500
I grow a mix of Mediterranean and South African species, with my main interest being in the smaller South African species. There has been a wealth of small unidentified or unnames species available in the past year, many with interesting leaves, some wiry, some twisting, some doing both most have very small (3/8 inch or so)leaves. I've been collecting these as I can, and the genus will clearly need amplification soon. They are all winter growers, and at least in Southern California are easy growers in pots, with some shade and protection from over watering in the summer. All the flowers are white, some with faint green striping.
The questions:
Does anyone know of a reference that describes the South African Hyacinthaceae, particularly the breakdown between Ornithogalum and Albuca. The line between these two genera does not seem very clear to me. The same goes with Urginea, but to a lesser extent. The best reference I know is "Ornithogalum: a revision of the southern African species" by A. A. Obermeyer in Bothalia V 12, #3.
Has anyone crossed Albuca with Ornithogalum, or Urginea with Ornithogalum?
Do any of the colored Ornithogalums cross out to either Albuca or Urginea?
Has anyone tried crossing in any of the more distant relatives such as Lachenalia or Ledebouria?
Thanks
Tom
From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 09:17:41 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Difficult Seeds--PBS TOW
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:09:01 +0100
Billthebulbbaron@aol.com a *crit :
to buy only flowering-size bulbs, or if they are also interested in smaller
> bulbs at a lower price. >>
>
>
> YES!!! For the reasons Alberto mentioned and also since one can buy several
> bulbs for the price of one there is more chance of at least one doing well,
> or just the opportunity to perhaps see some variation in color or whatever.
>
> I have sold countless thousands of mixed Amaryllis belladonna hybrid 3 year
> old seedlings at the Farmers' Markets I do to ordinary gardeners to whom I
> explain that they will have to wait at least a couple years for significant
> bloom but this way they can get alot more for their money and I can produce
> the bulbs incredibly cheaply as they are simply dug en masse from
> direct-seeded beds and sold as is.
>
Der Bill and all,
This is a good idea.! A have a few species which I have been sowing every year
in quantity ad are now becoming avaiable in thousands. Examples are
Amaryllis belladonna, Scilla peruviana, Tulbaghia violacea, Narcissus
tazetta, Allium tuberosum, Romulea, Sparaxis and Tritelea species. I will
create a section in the website "special offer fo naturalisation wiuth smaller
bulbs" They will be much cheaper and les expences in postage.
Thanks for the idea
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous pouvez
commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi à partir de maintenant jusqu'au
fin mars.
(En fleur actuellement à l'extérieure: Cyclamen pseudibericum, Dahlia
imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiea, versicolor, masoniorum,
Nerine undulata, bowdeniii'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Moraea polystachya)
-
From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 18:08:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Site of the IBSA Symposium
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 17:04:55 -0800
Dear All,
My husband found the following URL. The note on the IBSA brochure for their
bulb & corm symposium in August 2003 says the accommodation at Goudini Spa
will be either in the Rondavels or the Badsberg Flats.
http://www.conven.co.za/GoudiniSpa/Goudini.htm
From ???@??? Thu Dec 05 18:49:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Ornithogalum--PBS TOW
Date: Thu, 05 Dec 2002 18:08:19 -0800
Dear All,
Thank you Jane for your interesting discussion of the Ornithogalums you
grow. Are the non South African ones also susceptible to virus?
I have grown a number of Ornithogalums from seed and sometimes have a hard
time convincing them to break dormancy the second year. Do those of you who
grow these from seed keep them dry during the first dormancy or water them
monthly?
Ornithogalum dubium (none of mine have looked virused) also chooses to stay
underground some years. Paul Tyerman reported the same problem with his.
They are sold so cheaply by the Nurseryman's Exchange one is tempted to
treat them like annuals and buy new ones each year but I don't know if this
would be risky if they are prone to virus.
I tossed all my Ornithogalum thyrsoides. I had planted them in a raised bed
and they seemed to be splitting into smaller bulbs and not flowering well
and the leaves looked questionable as well. I never fertilized and that may
have been part of the problem. In Darling I saw this species in very wet
sand and perhaps it needed more water too as it is a late bloomer after our
rains have slowed down and I didn't always give it supplemental water.
Alberto, how soon can you tell if you have virused plants? Please describe
how they look. I assumed mine were as they were in that bed with the
Lachenalias that got virused after a number of years of being quite wonderful.
Ornithogalum umbellatum brings to mind that what some people are delighted
with (read the word naturalized), others think of as a pest (weed). My
father-in-law despaired of getting rid of it in his San Francisco sandy
garden and my husband made it clear I was never to plant it, but I remember
a friend being thrilled in Midland Texas when it came back each year.
O arabicum I agree with Lauw is a very handsome plant. I have tried it two
or three times in my gardens (Stockton and Gualala) and have never gotten
it to last longer than a year or two at the most. I'm not sure why this is.
I hope someone will be able to answer Tom's questions. When seeing them in
the wild in South Africa we too saw a similarity between Albucas and
Ornithogalums. And I agree some of them had wonderful curling leaves.
We saw O. maculatum often in South Africa, usually in the rocks. It is very
tiny in habitat and most of the time it was closed when we saw it as we
just happened to see it on overcast and rainy days. It was attractive
closed however, but so small that none of our pictures captured its charm.
I have tried it a couple of times from seed, but never had any luck.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 07:44:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Julian Slade"
Subject: Ornithogalum
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 17:20:52 +1030
Dear all
There is a lot of current controversy around the limits of the genus
Ornithogalum (also for Drimia and Scilla) following DNA sequence analysis by
M. Pfosser & F. Speta published in Annals of the Missouri Botanical Garden,
86: 852-875 (1999).
The sequence data indicate that Ornithogalum and Albuca are mixed up with
each other; a situation is similar for the Drimia/Urginea group as well as
for Scilla and relatives. For this note, I'll stick to Ornithogalum.
Basically, Pfosser & Speta argue that these genera must be divided into
smaller ones for any sense to be made of the DNA results. These smaller
genera can generally be distinguished by seed structure, a characteristic
previously underestimated. These smaller genera are:
Eliokarmos: O. thyrsoides, O. dubium, etc. and relatives;
Melomphis: O. arabicum and relatives;
Cathissa: O. reverchonii and relatives;
Loncomelos: O. pyrenaicum, O. arcuatum, etc. and relatives;
Honorius: O. nutans and relatives;
Ornithogalum: O. umbellatum and relatives;
Zahariadia: O. saundersiae, possibly also O. xanthochlorum;
Ornithogalum juncifolium, not allocated a 'new' genus name, also formed a
separate group.
The green-flowered species of Galtonia were found to be most related to
Zahariadia. The only other Galtonia, the white G. candicans, was closer to
the following group centered around Albuca:
Stellarioides: O. longibracteatum and relatives;
Coilonox: O. secundum, O. suaveolens and relatives;
Albuca: unchanged
A rare species of Ornithogalum, O. etesiogaripense, formed another group;
this group would presumably comprise O. unifolium and relatives.
There are 2 ways to interpret these results: either smaller genera must be
recognised, or part of Ornithogalum must be transferred to Albuca. The
latter approach, in my opinion, will result in super-genera each of which do
not appear to have defining features.
I would welcome any comments from professional botanists who are aware of
this research.
I hope that this does not confuse you all, but at least you will be warned
of some changes in store!
Regards
Julian Slade
From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 08:33:15 2002
Message-Id:
From: Harold Koopowitz
Subject: Ornithogalum
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 08:30:26 -0800
This discussion started of with suggestions of breeding. We found within
the old concept of Ornithogalum that it was difficult to make hybrids
unless one resorted to embryo rescue. Even within the new Eliokarmos one
could not make hybrids between thyrasoides and dubium unless one used
embryo rescue.
With regards the discussion below, Remember that much of the molecular
genetics is only based on one or a few genes (I am not sure of the
situation here) and the cladograms displayed are only one of many
possibilities.
Harold
From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 19:08:37 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Explaining current taxonomy
Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 09:53:34 -0800
Harold Koopowitz responded to Julian Slade's posting on recent work on the
genus Ornithogalum:
>... With regards to [the report summarized by Slade], Remember that much
of the molecular
>genetics is only based on one or a few genes (I am not sure of the
>situation here) and the cladograms displayed are only one of many
>possibilities.
It would be most valuable for nonspecialists who are strongly interested in
plants to gain a better understanding of how taxonomy is currently being
done. I would like to encourage specialists (such as Drs. Koopowitz and
Meerow) to think about presenting this information in an article accessible
to many readers of the "Rock Garden Quarterly" and "Bulbs." My own
specialty is editing scholarly prose, and I would be happy to assist in the
preparation of such an explanatory article. One of my mottos is "You can
explain [almost] anything to [almost] anyone," although in this case it is
surprising how many people are engaged in breeding plants and animals
without even the kind of basic understanding of genetics one gets from an
introductory biology course.
Because cladistics is also used in linguistics, I was familiar with it
before I encountered it in biology, so I'm not put off by statements like
"only one of many possibilities." However, I also know that many readers
are NOT comfortable with them and believe they are being "jerked around" by
"those botanists" whenever a name change is proposed.
Some of those confused by current taxonomic practice are in the
horticultural publishing industry, too, so as an editor I am called on to
make decisions about synonyms that I am by no means qualified to make --
and that I'm not sure NEED to be made. Authors can respond with surprising
rancor to editorial changes regarding plant names.
Jane McGary
Northwest Oregon
From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 19:08:37 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Ingram
Subject: Ornithagalum TOW
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:24:00 -0800 (PST)
I wish I could get mine to become a pest. My dubium well, one spike a year is about it. This is it's second (or is it third?) year. It really is in the sunniest part and also the driest. Placement was more by space availability than plant requirements. It came from Smith and Hawken as a closeout plant for $5.00 and I couldn't pass it up. I gues I should have. (I really need to control my spending impulses but oh well). The Sandersonii are one leaf if at all. They are from a past BX. I really love the flowers for cut flowers but I have never had them in my garden. Thrysoides has flowered for me and I always rip off the flowers and toss them as they are the biggest aphid magnet in the garden. I have never tried any other spp. but I would like to get the ones I have to do better. They are all in the open ground and I will be moving them all in the next few months into pots at the beach as I do not need my garden plot (especially since I never remember to water it since I have been home
John Ingramjjingram@adelphia.net
Floralartistry2000@yahoo.comgroups.yahoo.com/group/FloralArtistry
PhotoPages www.floralartistry.org
From ???@??? Fri Dec 06 20:07:45 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Explaining current taxonomy
Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 19:55:42 -0800
I want to actively support Jane's request. Last year I had some
correspondence with Chris Pires at the Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison who has
been doing DNA analysis of the Brodiaeas and related species. He uses
cladograms to organize it and related genera phylogenetically. He was very
patient in trying to explain things to me, but I found it challenging to
understand and know I would very much appreciate the kind of article Jane is
talking about. ------- Georgie
From ???@??? Sat Dec 07 06:51:49 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cameron McMaster"
Subject: difficult seeds
Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 10:45:33 +0200
Has anyone tried growing Hypoxis hemerocallidea (=rooperi) from seed?
It is a well known traditional medicinal plant in SA, one of the main ingredients for cancer and Aids treatments. It is often called African Potato, and has bright yellow star flowers.
It is in great demand so the wild populations are being severely depleted.
It is notoriously difficult to germinate, but once growing, it is very easy.We haven't had luck with sowing seeds in a container, but seeds sown in the open seem to germinate after two years! Perhaps a few after one year.
The local wild plants drop their seed in summer, when temperatures can be over 30C sporadically, and then there are regular overnight frosts - in the Cathcart district often -3C and occasionally -8C. So it sounds like a candidate for putting seeds in the freezer compartment for a couple of days before sowing. I will try it this year.
Jane and Alberto I agree that young bulbs are much easier to relocate when they are just 2-3 years old, big enough to survive posting, and small enough to adapt to new conditions. Mature bulbs seem to rot more easily, or they sulk and need careful attention (not to mention the virus risk, as you explained).
With Amaryllids the cost difference between 2-year olds and mature bulbs (often 7+ years old) is significant, especially for someone wanting to start up a collection.
And it is better to have a few to plant in a pot than just one. But growing your bulbs from seed is soooo satisfying when, after years, they eventually flower!
Rhoda
Stutterheim, E.Cape
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:20 2002
Message-Id:
From: Marguerite English
Subject: 'The Bulb Garden'
Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 13:21:30 -0800
All current members of PBS who joined through the end of October should have received issues 1-3 of 'The Bulb Garden' by regular mail. If you did not receive your copies, please let me know privately. I am always seeking articles and welcome your inquiry about writing one, or about a topic you would like to see included. If you have a garden-related business, we also accept advertising. The winter issue is being prepared now; be sure to join the Pacific Bulb Society soon to receive yours! Please send all inquiries to: meenglis@cts.com
Marguerite English, Editor: 'The Bulb Garden'
Gardening in USDA zone 7, 3700 feet in the mountains east of San Diego,
Ca., US of A.
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:20 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:04:51 +0800
Would there be anyone on this list who would be willing to guide me through
the uncharted waters of correct pronunciation of bulb names. Everyone seems
to say things a little differently and there is people out there who make
it a point to correct ! others while sounding as though they are putting
words through a mangle themselves :)) . I for one would truly appreciate
some clarification on some of the more difficult names : Leucocoryne for
example, I have heard so many different versions LOL it is hard to choose
!!!!! :)
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:20 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Ixia"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 13:13:12 +1100
Hi Mary,
there is a great little book I bought years ago to help me.
"Dictionary of Plant Names", published by Timer Press and written by Allen
J. Coombes. The ISBN No. is 0-88192-0213-1 Printed in Finland. You should still be able
to get it.
The description says " Tor pronunciation, derivation and meaning of botanical
names, and their common-name equivalent" t has been very helpful for me and is very well set out. It is general though, not just bulbs.
If there is one specifically for bulbs I would be interested.
Hope this helps.
regards,
Bill Richardson
Gippsland
Australia
8-30 c. Lovely days of Spring. Water restrictions here.
Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia
Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Den Wilson"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 08:08:26 -0000
Mary,
I don't think you've got a chance of getting a definitive answer to this
one. There are accepted conventions but you and I would probably pronounce
(and spell) the word 'tomato' differently and both be correct (cue for a
song?). Ask any group of bulbophiles for the correct pronounciation of
'Nerine' and you will probably start a fight. The truth is that there are no
latin-speaking Romans around to ask anymore so don't be put off by people
who feel they have to correct you and do it your way. Leucocoryne normally
has the accent on the first and third syllables but if somebody wants to
correct me.....?
Cheers.
Den Wilson
Isle of Wight
UK.
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Dr Paul Chapman"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 10:50:02 -0000
Den,
Would Nereen, Nereeny, Neriny and Nereyn lovers fight over pronunciation?
Surely not? {;
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 08:13:44 -0500
Hi Mary and all,
Along this line, Sir Peter Smithers says that botanical Latin is a written,
not a spoken language! In any case, beyond Den's point of the differences
between British English and American English pronounciations, think of the
French and the German pronounciations! (We won't mention Aussie accents here.)
Don't let smart-assed know-it-alls dictate to you how to pronounce
scientific names in Latin! I had three years of (classical) Latin in high
school, 50 years ago. In the occasional instances where I can remember the
Classical Latin pronounciation, I use that. Most folks around the USA
anglicize the Latin names. Who cares? It only matters that you be able to
communicate to your listener what you are talking about.
Follow Sir Peter's stand. Don't be bullied!
Best wishes,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana, where we say it in Hoosier (pronounce that right if you
can!)
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: difficult seeds
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 18:41:13 +0100
Cameron McMaster a *crit :
Has anyone tried
growing Hypoxis hemerocallidea (=rooperi) from seed?
Rhoda,
This hypoxis is doing very well here.
After having finaly located the seed (it is so small and the pods are minute) I have sown it several year running. It was sown in the autumn and the boxes wre left outside. Germination occured the over two years.
Now so many offsets are produced that I have no need to sow again. But if anyone wnts some I can look for it. oI agree that young bulbs are much easier to relocate when they are just 2-3 years old, big enough to survive posting, and small enough to adapt to new conditions.RhodaStutterheim, E.Cape
Your 2-3 year old bulbs have settled in very well. Only the winergrower
from the Cape (Veltheimia capense) is still disorientated. New shoots are
just begining to develop while the acclimatised bulbs had leaves already
in early autumn.
Kind regards
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous
pouvez commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi à partir de
maintenant jusqu'au fin mars.
(En fleur actuellement à l'extérieure: Cyclamen pseudibericum,
Dahlia imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiea, versicolor,
masoniorum, Nerine undulata, bowdenii'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta
'Paperwhite', Chinese sacred lily,Double, Moraea polystachya,
Lachenalia bulbifera)
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Ixia"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 04:52:39 +1100
Jim,
this is good advice. I too had a couple of years of Latin at school and could repeat whole versus in Latin. However, when you come across plant names like Clivia where I've heard it pronounced so many different ways, you eventually ignore who's right and wrong and do your own thing. Anyway, as a born and bred Queenslander, I've always pronounced lots of words different to my comrades where I live now in the state of Victoria. Us foreigners always speak funny. Who cares! regards,
Bill Richardson
Gippsland
Australia
8-30 c. Lovely days of Spring. Water restrictions here.
Ixia site: http://www.angelfire.com/ri/ixia
Suite 101 site: http://suite101.com/welcome.cfm/bulbs_and_plants
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 11:56:30 -0800
Mary Wise wrote:
>Would there be anyone on this list who would be willing to guide me through
>the uncharted waters of correct pronunciation of bulb names. Everyone seems
>to say things a little differently and there is people out there who make
>it a point to correct ! others while sounding as though they are putting
>words through a mangle themselves :)) . I for one would truly appreciate
>some clarification on some of the more difficult names : Leucocoryne for
>example, I have heard so many different versions LOL it is hard to choose
>!!!!! :)
COMMENT:
At last, a question that I am actually qualified to answer!
Some general gardening reference books suggest pronunciations, and many of
the more common names can be found in a large English dictionary. However,
most linguists would tell people, "If the person you're talking with
understands what you are talking about, your pronunciation is correct
ENOUGH."
Botanical names can be considered "loan words" in the modern languages of
the world, and many of them are still in the process of become
"naturalized" (in language, that means they are being changed by speakers
to conform to the sound system of their language). The sound patterns of
languages and of the dialects of a given language differ among themselves,
so the pronunciation of botanical names varies from country to country, too.
For example, British English speakers tend to place the stress on a
different syllable of a long loan word than American English speakers do
(antepenultimate for the former, penultimate for the latter). There is a
great deal of variation on where word stress gets placed, and only a real
pedant would quibble about it. (For example, we pedants say "DOdecaTHEon"
because the word contains two roots, 'twelve' and 'gods'.) Many of the more
common plant names are given in any large English dictionary, with their
pronunciation in the dialect to which the dictionary pertains, including
word stress.
You can pronounce the vowels in the same way that they are said in more
commonly known loan words from Latin and Greek. Certain consonants are
pronounced in ways that approximate their sounds in the Latin and Greek
sources. Thus, ch is k as in 'key', and j is y as in 'yes'. The letter c
follows the pronunciation rules typical in English, so that we say
"nar[s]issus" instead of "nar[k]issus". Different rules are followed in
German, French, and other European languages; as a result, Europeans on
plant tours in North America sometimes need an interpreter to understand
what botanical names are being said to them!
One key to saying botanical names is to make sure you understand what the
syllables are and say all of them in the right order. Look at the way the
word is spelled and separate it into syllables. Say each syllable
separately, then string them together. This way you will not mix up the
sounds (as people do when they pronounce "anemone" as "anenome") or leave
anything out.
To take the example Mary mentioned, "leucocoryne," the syllables are
leu-co-co-ry-ne. In American pronunciation, the "eu" sounds like the vowel
in "too"; in British, it would probably sound more like the vowel in
"view". Both the c's are "hard" [k]. The y tends to sound like "eye",
though some speakers, especially British, may give it the sound of the i in
"bit". The final e has the sound of the ee in "meet", just as it does in
"anemone". The stress is likely to be placed on "ry", and here the
Americans have the approval of the pedants, because the stress of the
Classical Greek word "coryne" 'club' is on that syllable too. (The name
means 'white club' and refers to the stamens.) A British speaker, however,
might prefer to stress the preceding syllable, leucoCORyne (the lack of
stress on the y "shortens" it, as mentioned above).
There is no need to be anxious about one's pronunciation of botanical
names. Some of the most exalted plantspersons in the world use what we
kindly call "idiolectal" pronunciations. That doesn't mean "the speech of
idiots"--it means a variant used by only one or a few persons.
I am fascinated by the way plant-name pronunciations diffuse through the
gardening world, which represents a good case of what sociolinguists call a
"community of practice". Thirty years ago, you would not have heard many
Americans say "CLEM-atis," but now they have all heard so many English
garden lecturers say it that they reject "cleMATis", which Americans have
been saying for 150 years, as substandard. Maybe I'll write a paper on it
someday!
Jane McGary
NW Oregon
Editor, Rock Garden Quarterly, AND Editorial Associate, Language in Society
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names /thanks
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:36:41 +0800
Thanks so much to everyone who kindly answered my plea :) It is much
appreciated and I feel more able to work names out now (at least to my
satisfaction) ! :)) It is an extremely interesting area and and it is
marvellous how many different sounds can be made from one word :)) the
shades of the ancient Roman scholars must twirl madly at times. thanks
agaain
cheers
Mary
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mark Wilcox
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 08 Dec 2002 18:47:02 -0500
Dear all,
This discussion is very interesting to me! I suspect it is to a multitude of
other lurkers as well.
First of all, I'd like to thank Mary Wise for having brought it up. It's one
of those subjects I often wonder about, but never seem to get around to asking
a question in regard to.
On Sun, 08 Dec 2002 11:56:30 -0800, Jane McGary wrote:
>To take the example Mary mentioned, "leucocoryne," the syllables are
>leu-co-co-ry-ne. In American pronunciation, the "eu" sounds like the vowel
At last! This paragraph verifies that I correctly reasoned out how to say at
least one latin name on my own! For me, that's a major accomplishment.
I was quite surprised to hear how others pronounced latin names at the IBS
Symposium in Chicago in 2001 like Nerine, Hippeastrum, Cyclamen, and others
considered common - due to the fact that it was the first time I'd been in a
"geophyte social situation" where the latin names were bandied about verbally.
Other names such as Galanthus, Lycoris, Muscari, and Tulipa seem to follow
rules of pronunciation that are more logical or intuitive without an extensive knowledge of how we'd say them as if they came "from Latin and Greek," as Jane wrote. The trick to correctly pronouncing these names seems lie in the ability to recognize which rules of pronunciation a particular latin term is going to follow - or is it rather that our rules coincide with the Latin/Greek borrowed word rules in these specific cases?
Although I didn't consciously realize it, Jane is completely correct about
CLEMatis vs. CleMATis. Either pronunciation sounds correct to me after so much exposure to the Queen's English, just as we might expect to hear "tomato" pronounced differently according to the origin of the speaker.
Jane, many thanks for sharing your knowledge with us!
Mark Wilcox
Washington, DC
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 20:51:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: Theladygardens@aol.com
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:01:44 EST
I am still tongue-tied but have really enjoyed the discussion of botanical names and particularly Jane McGary's input. Appreciate those of you more educated than I who say it doesn't matter as long as the corespondent understands what you are talking about.
I am new to the group and have several hundred bulbs in my refrigerator waiting to be planted.I do have several thousand in the ground, just adding more.
Most anxious to aquire some of the bulbs you don't find in nurseries or mail-order catalogs, and I do get a lot of garden catalogs.
Carolyn Craft in Los Gatos, CA
From ???@??? Sun Dec 08 22:55:32 2002
Message-Id:
From: Antennaria@aol.com
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 00:28:10 EST
An excellent TOW (Topic Of Week) and excellent discussion on this all-important topic.
The topic is important because we all feel unsure, or possibly embarrassed at times, trying to pronounce botanical names in the company of others, possibly those thought to be more knowledgeable that one's self.
Jane McGary's fine primer on pronunciation hits the nail on the head, although there is one other major thing to look for when attempting to pronounce botanical names; those names that are commemorative in derivation; genus or species epithets named in honor of this person or that, thus the person's proper name dictates the pronunciation principles.
Embarrassingly I learned this rule years ago at an American Rock Garden Society meeting in Seattle Washington, USA.
At a picnic lunch at one such "garden-visit" meeting, I sat next to Brian Mulligan, the eminent director of the arboretum in Seattle.
Mr. Mulligan was an elderly British gent in his early 90s, and was rather dry if not terse in his botanical "reprimands".
I was "talking plants" and mentioned Halesia, a lovely genus of southeastern USA small trees (+ couple species in China) with white pendulous flowers similar to Styrax, when he sternly corrected my pronunciation. I was saying "Ha - LEE - see - ah". Mr. Mullligan pointed out that the genus is named after Dr. Stephen Hales, thus the pronunciation should be "Hales - EE - ah.
I was embarrassed at the time, but now look for the possibility that plant names are derived from people's proper names commemorated in latinized form.There are more of these than you might think. The hard part is when those commemorative names are based on some country of original very different than what one is familiar with, such as Russin or Chinese.
But even when aware of such proper pronunciations, I think it is still important to be aware of impropriety, and possibly avoid being "technically correct" in favor of being politically correct in special instances.
At a recent NARGS meeting (New England Chapter, of the North American Rock Garden Society), the speaker discussed some dwarf pine (Pinus) species, and repetitively used the interpretation of "Pi" pronounced a "Pee", and it was uncomfortably endured at best.
Whether correct or not, I will always publicly pronounce the genus name for pines as "Pie - nus" or "Pye nus"; never as "Pee - nus" for the obvious embarrassing coincidence with male anatomy.
Mark McDonough
Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States
antennaria@aol.com
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 08:21:07 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Pacific BX 19
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 06:25:47 -0400
Dear All,
The items listed below have been donated by PBS members for
sharing. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me
PRIVATELY at . Include "BX 19" in the subject line.
Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify
quantities. Availability is based on a first come, first served system.
When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find included with them a
statement of how much money (cash or check) you should send the PBS
treasurer for you order. Each item costs US$2.00 to cover first-class
postage and packing. It is a good idea to include you snail mail address
too, in case I don't already have it.
Some of you are members of the PBS discussion forum but not members of
the Pacific Bulb Society. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS OF
THE PBS. Consider joining the PBS so that you can take advantage of future
offers such as this. Or contact me at dells@voicenet.com
If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS, please send
clean, clearly labeled material to: Dell Sherk, PO Box 224, Holicong, PA,
18928, USA. Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for
their donations.
OFFERINGS:
Pacific BX 19:
(W = Winter-growing; S = Summer-growing)
SEED:
From Charles Hardman:
1. Sparaxis hybrids (W), many colors
2. Tritonia duesta (W)
3. Tritonia pallida (W)
4. Tritonia squalida (W)
From Mary Sue Ittner :
5. Brodiaea jolonensis--Winter growing California native found in grasslands
and foothill woodlands in the central and south Coast Ranges to northern
Baja California. Blooming from April to June, this is a short species,
growing to 6 in. (15 cm.) with violet blossoms and an urn-shaped tube with
violet staminodes with inrolled margins and purple anthers. One of the
first Brodiaeas to bloom.
6. Gladiolus carmineus--Winter growing South African that blooms in fall
before the leaves. It is a low grower with pink and white flowers, growing
and increasing very happily in the ground in my coastal northern California
garden. These are seeds from bloom this fall.
7. Lachenalia peersi--Winter growing South African. Late blooming species
with purplish-green leaves and flowers that smell like carnations
8. Triteleia ixioides--Winter growing California native. This one could be
T. ixioides ixioides, but I have struggled to be sure. It is short, a good
yellow and was a bonus contribution growing in a pot of South African bulbs
given me by Jim Robinett. Open pollinated so could be different.
9. Triteleia laxa--Winter growing California native. Another unnamed bonus
from Jim, this one is a really nice one with large flowers that are shinier
than most. It does produce offsets, but not as many as some forms and seems
to be putting energy into getting bigger each year. It blooms earlier than
some of the ones I grow, sometimes blooming in April or early May. Open
pollinated so could be different.
10. Veltheimia bracteata--Winter growing, but only with a short dormancy
from South Africa. Amazingly wonderful shiny green leaves and long blooming pink
flowers.
BULBS:
11. Cyrtanthus elatus x montanus--These are the small bulblets we have
talked about and which Jim Shields gets to bloom twice a year and which he
pictured on his image list. Originally from Bill
Dijk in New Zealand.
Thank you, Charles and Mary Sue !!
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 08:21:07 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cameron McMaster"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 14:41:15 +0200
I once asked the world famous taxonomist and curator of the Compton
Herbarium at Kirstenbosch, Dr John Rourke about pronunciation, and he had
the same reply as Jim Shields - it doesn't matter how you pronounce it, as
long as others know what you are talking about! Great!
Rhoda
Stutterheim
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 08:21:07 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Pronounciation, etc
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 13:25:37 +0000
Dear Mark:
Do not fell uncomfortable. Pinus is pronounced
PEE-noos. It is not true that when a botanical name is based on someone's
name it must be pronounced in the original language. It only happens in
English.
Kind regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 08:21:07 2002
Message-Id:
From: Harry Dewey
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 09:33:59 -0500
....
If we based our pronunciations on the words from which English words
have been derived, as Mr. Mulligan wanted you to do, just think how many
words that were imported into English from Latin, Greek, French, etc.,
etc., would have to be repronounced! Few contemporary pronunciations
would survive. Excuse me, should I be saying soor-VEEV?
My own basic rules are (1) never correct anyone else's Latin, and (2)
adopt instantly anyone else's [mis]pronunciation for the duration of
any conversation, as though any other pronunciation were inconceivable
(even though I may have just used a different one prior to being
corrected). I don't object to ANYONE's pronunciation unless asked my
opinion of it.
If you are secure in your own person, acceding to someone else's
pronunciation will not ruin your life -- or your reputation. The late
Richard Farley, when director of the National Agricultural Library here
in Beltsville, was once confronted by a staff member who demanded a
promotion on the grounds that she had told all her friends she expected
one and would therefore be humiliated if denied it. He reportedly
replied, in declining, "Humiliation is a self-imposed condition." To
adopt someone else's pronunciation is an act of politeness that will not
diminish you in the slightest degree. When in Rome do as the Romans do:
say ah-zuh-LAY-uh, NOT uh-ZAYL-yuh.
And above all, remember Knud Lunde's sage advice: "The urge to correct
[breaks] communication."
Live and let live.
Yet, if someone asks me tomorrow if I grow ka-MELL-yuz, I will certain
respond "Yes, indeed, ka-MELL-yuz are a mainstay of my garden." Live
and let live.
So, Mark, quit worrying about how to pronounce genera based on Chinese,
Russian, or whatnot, and just say them the way you want, or the way your
conversational partner is pronouncing them. If you want guidance, check
them out in a good unabridged English dictionary. ALL Latin genera are
automatically English words, spellable with a capital OR lower-case
initial letter, always correctly pluralizable with an -s or -es ending,
and always pluralized with a lower-case initial letter. Every
"unabridged" English-language dictionary that omits even a single genus
-- plant or animal -- name is automatically an abridged dictionary.
--
Harry Dewey (lifetime email address)
4605 Brandon Lane, Beltsville, Maryland USA 20705-2604
Exit I-95 to MD212 east; turn right on Cedar & left on Brandon
301-937-1446 Hardiness Zone 7a
Founder, Alpine-L, the Electronic Rock Garden Society
(the independent club that won the 2002 NARGS Award of Merit)
http://www.thealpinegarden.com/alpine-l.htm
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 19:12:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:24:03 -0800
Harry Dewey's posting on this topic was very much along the lines of my own
thought on the subject, though I wouldn't call a pronunciation-corrector a
"terrorist and thug" -- just a boor who doesn't understand how language
really works. (Harry, do I get credit for moderating my rhetoric here, if
not on Alpine-L?)
However, I wanted to comment on Harry's statement,
> ALL Latin genera are
>automatically English words, spellable with a capital OR lower-case
>initial letter, always correctly pluralizable with an -s or -es ending,
>and always pluralized with a lower-case initial letter.
In general, this is the rule we editors follow, but it gets more
complicated than that. The lower-case initial letter is used when the genus
name is accompanied by an article (Eng. 'a', 'the') or when it is
pluralized; the upper-case initial appears only when the genus name is
italicized and being used in the sense of a taxonomic entity. As for
pluralizing, we use the plural forms from the source language for certain
genera where this is a longstanding usage in English: gladiolus, gladioli;
cactus, cacti; narcissus, narcissi. There is a widely observed (though not
universal) rule in editing not to pluralize with -es and not to use the
possessive 's when a word ends in a syllable like -sus, -sos, -ses. Thus,
we would write "Marcus's face" but "Jesus' face", and I suppose "a cactus's
habitat" but "a narcissus' habitat".
In difficult situations, one can avoid making a decision about plurals by
writing "Gladiolus [italic] species" or "species of Gladiolus [italic]". (I
can't change fonts in the e-mail application I use, but I don't get viruses
in it, either.)
With best wishes for the holidays, and for quick recovery to the gardens of
our friends on the US East Coast!
Jane McGary
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 13:46:44 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 11:53:33 -0800
Dear All,
It pleases me when our group spontaneously creates their own topic of the
week which they have recently when Mary Wise's question generated such a
lot of discussion. But it does leave me wondering if I should postpone the
topic I had planned to slow down on traffic. Perhaps people can comment on
this. Since this seems to be a very busy time of the year some of the
topics I have planned do not require much of an introduction and that is
giving some of those people who have offered to provide introductions for
me a bit of breathing room. Here is what I have planned for the rest of the
month.
December 9th--Favorite Books
December 15th--Digital Photography of flowers--John Lonsdale is going to
lead the discussion
December 23rd--Favorite URLS--If this one proves popular enough to continue
through the holidays it will and other wise I'll start us off on a pick of
mine, Triteleia, the following week.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 13:46:44 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 12:17:13 -0800
Dear All,
A couple of people suggested we talk about favorite books as they might
lead to ideas for Christmas presents. I did a search of messages I have
saved that had the word book in them from our discussions and could see
that it would take me quite a lot of time to read through all the messages.
I am sure I have not found them all, but here are some that people on this
list have found valuable gathered together in one place:
Brian Mathew's The Crocus
"Growing Bulbs" by Martyn Rix
Spring and Winter Flowering Bulbs of the Cape by Barbara Jeppe
Clive Innes' book, The World of Iridaceae
Bulbs of North America edited by Jane McGary
And from Alberto:
Brian Mathew's "Dwarf Bulbs"
Brian's " The Smaller Bulbs"
Brian and Kit Grey-Wilson's " Bulbs"
And of course in that gold mine in book shape, "Collin's Guide to Bulbs" by
Patrick Synge, which is one of the best bulb books of all times, where
every comment reflects years of first hand experience. Invaluable for bulbs
from cool to cold winter origin.
Peter Goldblatt and John Manning's Gladiolus of Southern Africa
"Dictionary of Plant Names", published by Timer Press and written by Allen
J. Coombes
Clivias by Harold Koopowitz
Please feel free to elaborate on any of these books, ask questions about
them and add the others you love and find yourself turning to often.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 13:46:44 2002
Message-Id:
From: Arnold
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 15:50:35 -0500
I started collecting Bulb books before I had anywhere to grow them. I
picked up a copy of Brian Mathew's "Crocus" about ten years ago and now
I see it can sell for upwards of $100.00. I have Collins Guide and
James Wells "Modern Miniature Daffodils" Which I use very often.
Although I understand from some very well appointed daffodil experts
that there are errors in Well's book.
I find that catalogs are a wonderful source of information and try to
keep a supply of them around, especially from the small specialty bulb
growers. John Bryan's book is a must have for the vast amount of
information that is in one place. The images are an extra added bonus.
Although I find that in some cases printed images are often not a true
representation of true flower color. ( A flower by any other color...)
But, the Phillips & Rix book "Bulbs" with a good blend of
scientific and in habitat images is the most worn book in the house.
Arnold
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 15:33:28 2002
Message-Id:
From: Arnold
Subject: Snowdrops
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:13:48 -0500
While we are on the subject of books.
I had agreed to help John Grimshaw distribute his Snowdrop book in the
States. John says that the book is sold out in UK and I guess I have
the only copies left. If anyone is interested in getting one contact me
Privately and I will fill in the details.
Wish I had a good supply of "Crocus" by Brian Mathew
Arnold
New Jersey
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 23:03:33 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Ernie O'Byrne"
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 22:59:01 -0000
One of my favorite books is missing from Mary Sue's list and that is by Jack
Elliott, who I so much wish could be part of our discussion. I find his
Bulbs for the Rock Garden to be a very practical guide, certainly not
complete, but a good distillation of many years of practical, hands on,
growing experience.
Ernie O'Byrne
Northwest Garden Nursery
86813 Central Road
Eugene OR 97402-9284
USA
Phone: 541 935-3915
FAX: 541 935-0863
Eugene, Oregon is USDA Zone 8a on the map, but we can only grow Zone 7
plants reliably. Member of NARGS, SRGC, RHS, American Primula Society,
Meconopsis Group, Alpine-L, Arisaema-L, Hellebore Group
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 15:44:48 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Den Wilson"
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:31:54 -0000
Hello all,
A very enlightening discussion!
My bottom-line is this: It's not being informed of correct pronunciation or
the origin of plant names that irritate. In fact, I have a great interest in
them (thank you Jane). It is being forcibly corrected in mid-sentence that
inflames me. My feelings are coloured by being witness to an incident at a
plant show where a panel of experts were answering questions 'on air' to an
audience. A lady got up - clearly very nervous - and hesitantly began her
question. She was so nervous that she dissolved entirely when a member of
the panel shot her out of the sky over Latin pronunciation and she could not
bring herself to finish her question. At the time, I felt like very loudly
and deliberately mis-pronouncing a few good, old-fashioned, Anglo-Saxon
words of my own. It cured me completely of ever attempting to correct
anothers pronunciation unless asked. Even then, I can never be absolutely
certain I am correct.
In common with Jim, I always understood that botanical Latin was a written
language deliberately and intentionally used to avoid ambiguity and overcome
language barriers. In that context, pronunciation is not an issue and does
not matter.
Jane's excellent posting prompts me to ask if it is wise to attempt to
absorb (or borrow) botanical Latin names into native language - where
pronunciation problems begin to arise and ambiguities re-emerge - or is my
question naive?
Den Wilson
Isle of Wight
UK.
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 19:12:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 17:34:19 -0800
As I am offering seeds of this plant on the current BX I have a few
interesting observations to share. I used to see offerings in catalogs for
Veltheimia but they always seemed so expensive so I never ordered any. Then
I saw some at Bill Dijk's nursery in New Zealand and thought them really
beautiful. Doug Westfall was digging some Veltheimia bracteata out of his
garden and shared some with me and I absolutely love them. The leaves would
be worth growing them alone, but they are in bloom for a very long time as
well. I planted some in my garden in a somewhat shady spot that has some
protection from the elements since it is under trees and next to my garage.
These are doing well and surviving with occasional summer water. They are
deciduous for me even with occasional water. I envision a whole swath of
them like Patty Colville described were once at the L.A. Arboretum. They
are producing offsets and this year I was amazed to see some new ones in
the area where I want them that weren't attached to others so some seed
must have found a spot and germinated so perhaps it will happen sooner than
I expect. Yea!
I have had mixed success with seed. The deer ate all my seedlings one year
and I had poor germination twice from fall sowing. Last year I decided to
soak the seeds before I started them and planted them in winter instead of
fall and had really good luck. They aren't really from a winter rainfall
area even if they act that way for me so starting them later seemed worth a
try.
Remembering Diana Chapman's wonderful fire method story and her tale of
getting massive quick germination using fire I tried soaking my seed in
smoke water, but found no real difference between smoke water, regular
water, and kelp water. Cathy Craig got seeds once to bloom in 18 months and
I remembered that. I started some inside and some outside. The ones inside
I remembered to fertilize more and they have quite a few leaves now even
though they aren't even a year old. The ones I left outside and fertilized
less have only one and sometimes the second leaf now, but the leaves are
much healthier looking, darker green, shiny.
Lauw advised me that I'd really love Veltheimia capensis. I ordered one
from Diana and it disappeared. I suspect birds, but it could have been
something else. It was very sad. I requested seed whenever it appeared on
exchange lists, but never got it. Finally last year I ordered seeds from
Rachel (which I should have done straight away) and had good germination
and most all have returned. It is very strange however that the seedlings
all seem to be growing on their own schedule with one making great progress
and having already about 4 leaves and many others with one or two leaves
and a few just now leafing out. Doug last year sent me one that was
supposed to be V. capensis that the birds singled out for attention
immediately!! I sheltered it in my green house where they can't go and it
put out replacement leaves. It looks like V. bracteata to me but he tells
me that it still may be capensis. Do the two hybridize?
When Bill Dijk was in Pasadena, I bought seed of his bicolored form that I
admired in New Zealand. I haven't started it yet, but wonder if the seeds
come up how many I can expect to be bicolored?
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 19:12:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo"
Subject: Veltheimias
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 02:20:35 +0000
Dear Mary Sue:
Seed of Velthemia bracteata (wavy edged shining deep green
leaves) received from the summer rainfall region of S. Africa germinated in
a 100% when fresh (this is, sown in Spring from a previous Autumn sowing).
They tend to be evergreen and are superb pot plants.
Summer dormant V. capensis (greyish foliage, most of the bulb
out of the ground) tend to be a lot more fuzzy and apparently resents
overwatering and low temperatures a lot. Foliage of both species is very
different. Most interesting plants tho.
Regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 13:19:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 18:32:26 -0800
Den Wilson wrote,
>Jane's excellent posting prompts me to ask if it is wise to attempt to
>absorb (or borrow) botanical Latin names into native language - where
>pronunciation problems begin to arise and ambiguities re-emerge - or is my
>question naive?
Well, yes, it is naive, because language progresses and changes as users
borrow and naturalize words whether it's "wise" or not. Some countries
(such as France) have language "academies" that rule (typically, quite
conservatively) on what is permissible in the written language, but humans
being what they are, the spoken language is usually way out ahead of the
written one.
You can't freeze language, and like Heraclitus's river, a language is never
the same from day to day or speaker to speaker. And, sadly, sometimes you
can't preserve one, either. The extinction of languages is progressing at a
rate similar to the extinction of plants, and just as some plants now exist
only in herbaria, some languages exist only on audio tape or written
transcriptions.
Jane McGary
NW Oregon, USA
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 19:37:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 19:35:48 -0800
Dear all,
Ah one of my favorites. I am not a big 'leaf' person, but for the
Veltheimias I make an exception - they are indeed beautiful plants did they
never bloom - as Mary Sue has said.
Re: V. capensis: There are perhaps beautiful capensis plants. Perhaps it is
in the eye..... To me they look like a weak and spindly V.b. They do, it's
true, have glaucous green leaves but they are narrow and not particularly
attractive. Same for the flowers - inferior to but very similar to V.b. (My
opinion only)
The V.bs I grew and bloomed from seed in so short a time were indoors under
lights and were fed a dilute fertilizer with each watering. I don't remember
the foliage being particularly inferior indoors but once you put them
outside to harden off, it won't take any time at all for their leaves to
broaden, thicken, and look a nice shiny green.
I am trying hard to get the number of pots down by planting out bulbs into
the ground a la Gary Buckley. Several of the V.bs are now occupying a raised
bed originally built for Hipps and so far they are responding fine.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 21:02:16 2002
Message-Id:
From: Elizabeth Waterman
Subject: Pronunciation of botanical names
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 19:55:55 -0800
Thank you all for your comments about pronouncing latin. Now I will never, ever correct anyone else's pronunciation. I particularly found valuable pronouncing each syllable.
I have a question on pronunciation somewhat related to this discussion, but it's the name of a tree under which some bulbs grow. Jacaranda. I don't think the word is either Latin or Greek. Now I've heard Jacaranda is named for a Dutch explorer and is native to Brazil. I have heard the "J" pronounced as a j (Jack), an h (hat) because it is Spanish!! and something else that I can't remember. Is anyone willing to comment on this?
Thanks,
Liz
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 21:02:16 2002
Message-Id: <002501c2a004$dd6b3820$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Pacific BX 19
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:29:45 -0800
Dear Dell (and all) -----
Some comments on the two items from PBX 19 associated with Jim Robinett.
# 8 -Jim grew many more T. ixioides scabra than either of the other two
forms (vars.?) - so that is the most likely candidate.
#9 - Your description of the T. laxa is most like the form that we called
"Sierra Giant," with large light lavender and shiny flowers, forming an
umbel as large as 10 or 12 inches when mature. It is indeed an early
bloomer, 3-4 weeks ahead of any other T. laxa we grew, and indeed forms
fewer offsets than some other forms, concentrating its energy on getting
bigger, as you say.
All Jim's bulbs were open pollinated (unless specifically protected), so
chance hybridization is indeed a risk, in both cases.
Georgie Robinett
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 21:02:16 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Floral Artistry"
Subject: Veltheimias
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 20:40:00 -0800
I will get a photo soon. I have two growing on my table (they were outside
all year until now). I am trying to force the flowers a little early. I have
a yellow with very narrow, dark green and wavy foliage while the other has
not bloomed for me but was given as a trade as capensis. It is lighter green
with wide, lightly wavy leaves but it is a larger plant overall.
They both have been growing at my beach growing area in the shade. They are
watered heavily year-round and have remained evergreen since I have gotten
them last year about this time or before.
John
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 21:02:16 2002
Message-Id:
From: Antennaria@aol.com
Subject: Pacific Bulb Society Digest
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:58:57 EST
I used to worry, but that was years ago, and I'm relatively comfortable with plant name pronunciation now.But I do still look for commemorative names and believe it's most reasonable to attempt to replicate the "commemoratee's" name when possible. Most floras are full of such names.
I used to pronounce the species epithet of Penstemon davidsonii as "Dave-id-SOW-nee-eye", which is possibly a little bit silly as the name clearly commemorates someone named Davidson... the syllables are clearly not meaningful botanical latin roots and combinations, so it just makes good sense to say "DAVE-id-son-eye".
But when it comes to clematis, or saxifraga, I'm like a chameleon, using the ToeMAYtoe or ToeMAHtoe pronunciation preferred by the person I'm speaking with.
There's another nuance to this name pronunciation thing, and that is bad or distorted pronunciation.When I lived in the Seattle, Washington area, I frequented the garden of one very enthusiastic rock gardener.She liked Alliums, and knew that I made it my special interest, therefore frequently talked about them.
She'd pronounce the genus without hesitation as "AL - yums", each time sending a small twinge through my sensibilities, but she was so enthusiastic, kind, and sharing, that I never did say anything about her novel pronunciation of the genus. Actually I kind of liked it and will never forget it... the cute name suggesting Alliums that are so pretty and appetizing that they've become AL-yums.
Mark McDonough
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 21:32:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: Douglas Westfall
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:21:06 -0800
Is Veltheimia the TOW?
I'd love to send some pictures, but the PBS wont accept them.
Someone asked it V.bracteata and V. capensis hybridize. They do, and I have
two beautiful specimens blooming right now.
Doug
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 22:09:26 2002
Message-Id: <4.2.2.20021209210316.00d156f0@mail.mcn.org>
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Pacific BX 19
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:32:17 -0800
Dear Georgie,
Those were my descriptions.
I don't think #8 seems to be T. ixioides scabra based on the key I came up
with from all my books and talking with you and Diana. I have some
exceptional T. ixioides ssp. scabra from seed the two of you collected that
blooms for months and is a marvelous plant. The lobes on this one I
collected seed from are more ascending and not as flat as I understood
scabra to be, but the tube measurement is a little off for ixioides
ixioides. It doesn't fit either exactly. It is bright yellow and very
attractive and I'm happy just to leave it at T. ixioides and not quibble
about a subspecies. I'll look and see if I can find a picture of either to
scan in for the image lists.
When I talked to you before and described #9 which I was delighted with
when it bloomed you thought it could be what you called 'Sierra Giant' and
on my tag I call it that with a question mark. I just was reluctant to
include that with a description since you hadn't seen it in person. It's a
great form regardless.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 09 22:09:26 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Veltheimia and TOW
Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 21:52:49 -0800
Dear All,
Everyone who took the time to vote said they wanted a topic of the week.
That is something we can talk about in addition to anything anyone else
wants to talk about. We are not limited to talking about the topic of the
week. I hope some of you will talk about your favorite books, but it is
impossible to know which topics will be favorites.
Veltheimia is not the topic of the week but we can talk about it. I brought
it up because I was offering seeds and wanted to report that I found late
winter a better time to start them. My Veltheimia bracteata usually starts
into growth just like my South Africa bulbs from winter rainfall areas. It
goes dormant in summer and in September or October the beautiful leaves
appear. So that led me to think I should start seeds then. When we
discussed this on the IBS forum some people reported theirs were evergreen.
There were a few who felt they bloomed better if allowed to have a dormant
period and if watered too much in a hot humid summer some reported they had
lost theirs to rot. Maybe Rhoda will repeat what it is like for them in
their native habitat. I have some great Veltheimia saved files from the IBS
forum for anyone who is new to this genus and would like to have them.
Doug gave me another Veltheimia capensis this year. He has been most
generous. It looks just like my Sil seedlings except it is much bigger and
has more leaves. So I expect finally to be able to compare it to V.
bracteata. I may get more rain than it is happy with since they are always
described as coming from dry areas. I am experimenting with some sheltered
from the rain and some that are not. So far we haven't had much rain so
they haven't really been put to the test. And the birds are leaving them
alone this year so far.
We set our forum up not to allow attachments of any kind. But Doug you can
send your images to one of the images lists and tell us where to look at them.
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 07:31:05 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW/JACK ELLIOTT
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 05:34:04 -0800
I am reminded by Ernie's post to mention again Jack Elliott. He is reading
messages and mail but is confined most of the time to a nursing home. He
would appreciate hearing from anyone wishing to write or send a card. As
Christmas approaches I am encouraging everyone who will take the time to
send him at least a Christmas card:
Jack Elliott
30 High Street
Charing, Nr Ashford
Kent TN27 OHX UK
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
>
> One of my favorite books is missing from Mary Sue's list and that
> is by Jack
> Elliott, who I so much wish could be part of our discussion.
>
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 07:31:05 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Hypoxis hemerocallidea
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 15:03:03 +0100
Cameron McMaster a *crit
> Our H. hemerocallidea never make offsets, and the seeds are about the same
> size as an average Lachenalia seed - large enough to find easily. It sounds
> as if you may have a different one? To compare, I am posting a picture to
> the AB-images.
> Rhoda,
> I went to get some from the garden. Indeed the seed is not that small,, but
> the pods do not contain many. Could you have a look at the picture of the
> Hypoxis in our website to make sure that I have the right name. Please give
> me the adress of AB images and if possible to subscribe to it
Many thanks for any help you could give
Kind regards
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
LE CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous pouvez
commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi, à partir de maintenant jusqu'à
fin mars.
(En fleurs actuellement à l'extérieur: Cyclamen pseudibericum, Dahlia
imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiei, versicolor, masoniorum,
Nerine undulata, bowdeni 'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Chinese sacred lily, Double, Moraea polystachya, Lachenalia bulbifera)
-
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 13:19:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: pronounciation...
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:09:01 -0800
Jackarandas grow here like weeds and are a beautiful addition to our fair
state (at least the southern part).
In Southern CA, it is pronounced "jack-a (short a as in father)-RAN-da (same
short a)
J. mimosifolia is apparently the most commonly grown and is native to the
drier tropical and sub tropical areas of South America. J. cuspidifolia is
native to Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay and Bolivia. I have a reference book
here that says Pretoria, South Africa, is known as jackaranda city...there
being so many of them there.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
> I have a question on pronunciation somewhat related to this
> discussion, but it's the name of a tree under which some
> bulbs grow.=A0 Jacaranda.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 18:46:39 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: [GreatLakesBulbs] Clivia DORIS on offer
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 17:05:13 -0800
Hi Kelly,
I use Pro Mix (like Jim S. does) plus #3 (large) perlite plus (white) pumice
(at about 3/16 in dia). Ratio is loosely: in a one gal pot Pro Mix, about 1
C perlite, about 1/2 C pumice.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
>
> Speaking of Clivia, can anybody recommend a good potting mix. I'm just
> using regular potting soil. I feel like I need more drainage. Sand just
> seems to make things heavier. Could I just add additional perlite as an
> easy solution?
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 20:44:27 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 19:50:25 -0800
Aren't there other book collectors in this group?
I second Ernie's choice of Jack Elliott's book. I love that book and find
myself rereading it every year when the seed lists arrive. I too miss
Jack's participation. He was so generous with his knowledge and experiences
of success and failure and there was always the delight and love of flowers
shinning through.
I have many books including a lot of the ones I summarized that had been
mentioned on the PBS list in the past. But there are others not mentioned
that I would like to add. I especially like the books that are written by
people who actually grow the plants and are therefore sharing their
experiences.
Bulbs for New Zealand Gardeners & Collectors by Jack Hobbs and Terry Hatch
is one such book. Terry told me he had grown all the plants he talked
about. Although this book is out of print with the marvel of the Internet
we have found copies in New Zealand to share with friends. This is a good
book for California growers of bulbs since it concentrates on some of the
bulbs that are more easily grown in areas that don't get so cold. It gives
cultural information, describes genus and species, sometimes describing the
species, sometimes telling about habitat and their luck with growing.
Another book written in 1936 but republished in 1990 is Adventures with
Hardy Bulbs by Louise Beebe Wilder. This one doesn't have pictures, but it
is really fun to read. Wilder lived in New York City so her experiences
would be really different than Hobbs and Hatch.
My husband located a copy of Sima Eliovson's Bulbs for the Gardener in the
Southern Hemisphere written in 1967. She is South African, but the bulbs
she talks about are world wide. She doesn't describe as many species of
each genus, but gives interesting cultural information. For example about
Veltheimia which we discussed yesterday she says, "Plant the large bulbs at
the end of summer or early in autumn in light soil containing plenty of
leaf-mould. The neck of the bulb should be at soil level or slightly above
it. Choose a shady situation under trees as the Forest Lily likes shade and
does not resent competition from tree roots." and so on
I am very fond of Cyclamen and have appreciated Cyclamen by Christopher
Grey-Wilson.
In addition to the Barbara Jeppe book my husband one Christmas presented me
with a copy of Niel du Plessis & Graham Duncan's Bulbous Plants of Southern
Africa. Like Arnold's well worn copy of Phillips and Rix for years I would
look through both of those books and dream about growing some of the plants
in them. This one covers the Amaryllidaceae and other families left out of
the other. Often one species will be listed in one of the books and not the
other even in the genus is in both books.
If you want to grow Lachenalia then you need Graham Duncan's The Lachenalia
Handbook.
We've already mentioned some of Brian Mathew's other books, but I have
found Growing Bulbs: The Complete Practical Guide to be another good
general book. It includes a lot of information about South American bulbs
not readily found but often doesn't have information about a particular
species I want to know about. But still I often find the answer I am
looking for and he shares his experience if he has it.
Finally back in those days before I became a bulb fanatic and just had a
few general bulb books, I purchased an Ortho book called All About Bulbs.
This revised edition was published in 1986 for $6.95. What made this book a
gold mine for a beginner from California was that the editors had as
consultants August De Hertogh, Stan Farwig, Vic Girard, and Wayne Roderick.
The latter three had large collections of bulbs and were growing them in
northern California. Many they had grown from seed and so this book told
about bulbs and species never found before or since in such a book. It has
been revised once again and now is back to tulips, hyacinths, narcissus and
all the bulbs most people think of when they think of bulbs. These were
featured too, but there were many others I had never heard of before. And
what I loved was they had a map of the United States. If the map was
colored in dark blue that meant the bulb could be naturalized with normal
garden care in that area. If light blue, the bulb could be grown outdoors
with some precautions. If uncolored the bulb would be difficult to grow as
a perennial, but still maybe possible in bulb frames, greenhouses, or maybe
as an annual. I don't know how accurate the maps were, but the maps for
a very large number of genera for my part of California were colored dark
blue or light blue so there was a whole range of possibilities open to me.
Mary Sue
PBS List Administrator
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 20:44:27 2002
Message-Id: <003e01c2a0cb$c31f2a40$0a01a2c6@jar>
From: "Georgie"
Subject: Pacific BX 19
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:13:33 -0800
Dear Mary Sue -
Thanks for the clarifications. It sounds as if your T. ixioides is probably
a garden hybrid between "var. scabra" and "var. ixioides". I put those terms
in quotes because the more Jim and I saw, the more we questioned whether it
was possible to "draw a line" between, or among, the various T. ixioides we
found. I would venture a guess that about half of what we saw could be
classified as "intergrades" between the supposed vars. The most common was
an intergrade between "var. anilina" and "var. scabra" found throughout
middle altitudes in much of the Sierras. Then, west of Red Bluff, we found a
form with flowers that appeared to be var. ixioides (rather far out of its
usual range ! ), but with scabrous stems (supposedly a pointer to var.
scabra). Flattish flowers usually does mean "var. scabra", but I am not sure
that tube measurement is a reliable differentiator. Petal shape is sometimes
helpful. But, it is a problem...
------------ Georgie
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 20:44:28 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Lyn Edwards"
Subject: TOTW
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:35:13 +1100
Dear Mary Sue and all,
I have most of the books mentioned so far in this discussion but the one
mentioned that really brought back memories, and I still refer to it, is the
Ortho book you mentioned in your last message,perhaps a rather unusual book
to be on sale in Australia but I have it and a sister one called "All About
Perennials". According to the price tag on the cover I paid $1.90 Aust. each
for these in the dim distant past.
Another American book which first introduced me to such delights as Bessera and Erythroniums and other delectable goodies is an earlier one from 1982, HP Books "Bulbs, How to Select,Grow and Enjoy" by George Harmon Scott.
I wonder if Horticulural Press still exists?
At that time this book was the place of dreams as few of the non mainstream
bulbs were available here and those that were I could not possibly have
bought at that time due to financial and family constraints way back then,
Lyn Edwards
Canberra
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 20:44:28 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 20:44:29 -0800
A book to which I often turn for information on bulbs is "The AGS
Encyclopaedia of Alpines" (2 vols.; Alpine Garden Society, 1994). It is
very expensive, if indeed still in print, but it contains entries by some
of the leading experts on the various genera, such as Martyn Rix on
Fritillaria, and also many entries on South American genera by John Watson.
Not all the plants included are true alpines, but merely plants that tend
to be grown by "alpine gardeners," which means devoted collectors of more
or less hardy plant species.
Jane McGary
Oregon, USA
From ???@??? Tue Dec 10 21:51:37 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Kathy Andersen"
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 00:39:29 -0500
My favorite bulb books deal primarily with hardy bulbs. I really love the
old classics for their beautiful pictures and current information of the
day: Herbert's "Amaryllidaceae" (1837), "The Narcissus" by Burbridge and
Baker (1875), "The Ladies' Flower-Garden of Ornamental Bulbous Plants" by
Mrs. Loudon (1861) and Maw's "A Monograph of the Genus Crocus" (1886). The
illustrations in the last book are truly amazing.
Then there are some more general books that are useful references but are
not always up-to-date as far as nomenclature is concerned: Grey's 3 volume
set of "Hardy Bulbs" (1938) is useful in identifying older names. For
example the Veltheimia viridifolia I grew a jillion years ago is today V.
capensis (it is hardy in England, hence its inclusion in the Liliaceae
volume). I have found the Grey-Wilson and Brian Mathew "Bulbs, the Bulbous
Plants of Europe" very helpful for identification in the field because of
its references to indigenous areas.
I frequently refer to the Mathew's books mentioned by Mary Sue and would
like to add the book he co-authored with Baytop, "The Bulbous Plants of
Turkey". His book, "The Larger Bulbs" is also of value.
My most dog-eared books are John Blanchard's "Narcissus A Guide to Wild
Daffodils" and "Lilies" by Synge. There are hosts of others that I use
frequently (bulb books are my thing), but these are two on which I really
do rely.
Kathy Andersen
ksa@del.net
Wilmington, Delaware
zone 6b-7a
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 07:04:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cameron McMaster"
Subject: Hypoxis hemerocallidea
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 08:39:08 +0200
Lauw
I looked at your web site picture, and it does seem to be the same, but I'm
not quite sure. The flowers of many Hypoxis spp are similar, and yours
definitely look like H. hemerocallidea flowers. The leaves should be in
three distinct ranks, like a fountain with three sections - described as
'sickle-shaped' in some books- and they can get quite long in adult plants,
to 60+ cm and averaging 30 cm wide. They are also channelled, with a
prominent keel or ridge on the underside. The leaves are usually quite
hairy, always with white hairs beneath. The long older leaves are sometimes
used by rural people to make ropes.
The address for AB Images: AB_images@yahoogroups.com
Rhoda
Stutterheim
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 07:04:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: Dell Sherk
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 07:44:36 -0400
I have a number of the books already listed as favorites and agree with
the plaudits, but I would like to add a few to the list.
A must-have for cyrtanthus growers: A Review of the Southern African
Species of Cyrtanthus by Reid and Dyer available from IBS
Thad Howard's recent book, Bulbs for Warm Climates, especially his
discussions of rhodophialas and rainlilies. (University of Texas Press)
John Bryan's RHS Manual of Bulbs, which is out-of-date compared to his
wonderfully colorful, new Bulbs, but which I know better when it comes to
checking nomenclature and spelling. (Timber Press)
My first bulb book, Bulbs: A Complete Handbook by Roy Genders
(Bobbs-Merrill) an old standby which still has some useful information.
And on the same note, the IPNI search site on the web (www.ipni.org), though
a book only in the electronic sense and more properly included with the
favorite URL TOW coming up.
Best wishes,
Dell
--Dell Sherk, Director, Pacific BX
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 13:31:20 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: Hypoxis hemerocallidea
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 22:22:34 +0100
Cameron McMaster a *crit
> I looked at your web site picture, and it does seem to be the same, but I'm
> not quite sure. The flowers of many Hypoxis spp are similar, and yours
> definitely look like H. hemerocallidea flowers. The leaves should be in
> three distinct ranks, like a fountain with three sections - described as
> 'sickle-shaped' in some books- and they can get quite long in adult plants,
> to 60+ cm and averaging 30 cm wide. They are also channelled, with a
> prominent keel or ridge on the underside. The leaves are usually quite
> hairy, always with white hairs beneath. The long older leaves are sometimes
> used by rural people to make ropes.
Rhoda,
Thanks for the info. Indeed it is H. hemerocallidea. This species is doing
well here and proofs to be very adaptable. Does well with summer water, but
also in a dry rockery (in which it still flowering at the moment). Our form
makes very large corms with many buds on it. Very often a piece of a corm
generates small plants. On the otherhand seeds are not set abundantly.
Kind regards
--
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean) cold this morning
8°C(48F)
Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
LE CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous pouvez
commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi, à partir de maintenant jusqu'à
fin mars.
(En fleurs actuellement à l'extérieur: Cyclamen pseudibericum, Dahlia
imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiei, versicolor, masoniorum,
Nerine undulata, bowdeni 'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Chinese sacred lily, Double, Moraea polystachya, Lachenalia bulbifera)
-
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 13:31:20 2002
Message-Id:
From: Ken K
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:31:55 -0800
It probably has a lot to do with my climate, but Veltheimia bracteata
has always done very well for me. It was one of my very first South
African bulbs, and remains a favorite. I read about it in the Sunset
Western Garden book and a couple of specialty bulb books (the HP Bulb
book), however they were not to be found locally. I finally tracked
one down at Catalog of Unusual Succulents, a mail order cactus &
succulent nursery. A short while later, one turned up at Berkeley
Horticultural Nursery and I grabbed that one also. The BHN plant had a
much nicer plant habit, and a richer pink color to the flower. Both
set a few seeds from their own pollen, which ripened during the early
summer and sprouted readily in the fall. My plantings were severely
damaged during the 1990-1991 freeze because they were all in
containers, so I spent a few years building my stock back up again.
I have been growing the yellow selection of bracteata for two seasons
now, however it was small (only 15 mm in diameter) when I received it
- directly from South Africa - and has not bloomed yet. It looks like
it should be large enough next year. By all rights it should have
bloomed by now, but perhaps the cross-hemisphere jolt set it back.
While I have not been able to match Cathy's 18 month seed-to-bloom
time, I think I recall some of my more vigorous seedlings blooming in
their second or third season. Mine were all grown outdoors, and I tend
to leave them crammed in their seedling pots too long. I plant the
untreated seeds barely covered in regular potting mix, and start to
water in late September/early October, as soon as the nights cool.
They sprout easily and completely as long as they are kept out of
direct sun. Under shaded, moderate conditions, bracteata seedlings can
be persuaded to grow continuously for their first two seasons, which
packs a lot of weight on them quickly.
Mature bulbs are another story. I have found that my strain is
predisposed to a distinct summer dormancy, and they will become rangy
if they are forced to remain green. They will also try to bloom in the
summer if kept growing, and this bloom is not only poor, but also
causes weak blooming the next winter.
Veltheimia capensis has been a different story. Here, it seems to be a
finicky grower, and lacks vigor. I have not lost any plants, but they
are certainly taking their time achieving blooming size. I think the
climate may be a tad too cool here for them, because I bought what was
supposed to be a blooming size capensis bulb from Guy Wrinkle at least
three years ago, and it still puts up two or three leaves each year
and seems to just sulk along. I have about 5 seedlings of capensis
from Silverhill that I planted two winters ago and they are healthy
and progressing nicely, although nowhere near the rate of bracteata.
Ken Kehl
East S.F. Bay Area, Ca.
USDA Zone 9
-2°C to 38°C
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 13:31:20 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 13:51:04 -0800 (PST)
I'd like to add my praise to the growing discussion of Veltheimia.I'm still new to gardening with bulbs, but my Veltheimia is the pride of my garden.I got it in June 2001 from Jim Duggan.It flowered last winter,and that flower lasted a long time.I let it produce seed - it produced a single seed.Not expecting much, I went ahead and put the seed about a half inch down in the soil next to the mother bulb.
The bulb went through a very short - less than a month - dormancy, and the leaves are now as vibrant and glossy as ever.The bulb has reproduced itself. I now have two distinct noses, and each is getting ready to send up a new scape.In addition, I have a little two-leaf baby growing, evidently from the seed that I buried and forgot some time ago.
I have the plant in a mix suggested by Jim - 40% potting soil, 40% sand, and 20% pumice.
The sand is not good - it's the stuff I was using before I figured out that fine sand hurt rather than helped the growing process.I fertilize occasionally with a plain fertilizer available at the grocery store.
I most heartily recommend V. bracteata to all novices who are eager to grow something uniquely beautiful in their gardens!
Jennifer
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 14:58:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 17:21:22 EST
In a message dated 12/11/2002 4:51:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, theotherjen8@yahoo.com writes:
I most heartily recommend V. bracteata to all novices who are eager to grow something uniquely beautiful in their gardens!
Makes a nice house/GH plant where it can't be grown outside.
A potful of 3-4 year olds is just starting to bloom here, nicely shaded by Camellia oleifera.
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 14:58:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Boyce Tankersley"
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 16:41:30 -0600
Veltheimia capensis var. deasii has been in bloom in my office window for a couple of weeks now. Beautiful light pink flowers shading to chartreuse at the mouth. The blue-green foliage is very striking. Gave Harold Koopowitz a leaf from each plant to try to get into tissue culture and I've been trying my hand at cross pollinating.
Hard not to count the chickens before they hatch, but so far none of the flowers have dehisced and all those I have tried to pollinate apparently are starting to swell. On the down-side, I now understand my 2 plants are siblings and so I shouldn't expect an abundant number of seeds.
Boyce Tankersley
btankers@chicagobotanic.org
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 16:28:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:29:29 -0800
My experience is that V.b. will produce prodigious amounts of seed if you just take a small brush and brush each flower. I must have finally thrown out a thousand seeds this
year.
Cathy Craig President PBSMaritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 16:28:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: Douglas Westfall
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:35:37 -0800
Veltheimia are beginning to show up with some of the variety that they had
in the Victorian era.
I have several different varieties:
V. bracteata in 4 shades of pink
V. bracteata x V. capensis (one has broad leaves of bracteata
w/silver/gray dusting and another has a yellos "wash"
over the leaves)
V. bracteata rosealba
V. bracteata with the reverse color pattern of rosealba
V. capensis lt. pink (another)lt. red
Also one that will bloom this season that is cream/white. It was sold to me as capensis, but the leaves appear to be bracteata. Another month will tell the tale.
Doug Westfall
From ???@??? Wed Dec 11 16:28:55 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lee Poulsen
Subject: Veltheimia
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 15:48:31 -0800
>Lauw advised me that I'd really love Veltheimia capensis. I ordered
>one from Diana and it disappeared. I suspect birds, but it could
>have been something else. It was very sad. I requested seed whenever
>it appeared on exchange lists, but never got it. Finally last year I
>ordered seeds from Rachel (which I should have done straight away)
>and had good germination and most all have returned. It is very
>strange however that the seedlings all seem to be growing on their
>own schedule with one making great progress and having already about
>4 leaves and many others with one or two leaves and a few just now
>leafing out. Doug last year sent me one that was supposed to be V.
>capensis that the birds singled out for attention immediately!! I
>sheltered it in my green house where they can't go and it put out
>replacement leaves. It looks like V. bracteata to me but he tells me
>that it still may be capensis. Do the two hybridize?
>
>When Bill Dijk was in Pasadena, I bought seed of his bicolored form
>that I admired in New Zealand. I haven't started it yet, but wonder
>if the seeds come up how many I can expect to be bicolored?
>
>Mary Sue
My biggest problem with both species of Veltheimia has been that
every year, an average of about one of my mature bulbs just up and
rots on me while the plant is in full growth. What causes me
consternation is that there will be 5 or 6 pots all sitting together
getting the same amount of sunshine and same amount of water planted
in the same soil mixture, and the other 4 or 5 plants just keep
growing healthily. I'm kind of guessing that, even in winter, I'm
still giving them too much water and have been growing them drier and
drier each year--and it *seems* like my losses are are slowly
becoming fewer.
I have one yellow one that I got at a sale at U.C. Irvine a few years
ago that finally bloomed. I'm hoping that as the bulb matures more,
the flower appearance will improve. For now I'm just glad that it
flowered yellow after Doug Westfall told me that some of the labels
had been mixed up on some of the little pots. I also have a few of
the Bill Dijk bicolors that are mature bulbs and I think they're
spectacular. The pink part is a nice saturated color so it contrasts
very well with the white/yellow portion of the petal tube.
The V. capensis does well here too, but it goes dormant earlier. My
one large bulb of it was the unlucky winner of the rotting lottery
last year. Luckily, the flower had already matured and I planted the
seeds and now have two pots of nicely growing blue-green seedlings.
--
--Lee Poulsen
Pasadena area, California, USDA Zone 9-10
Pacific Bulb Society - Treasurer
wpoulsen@pacbell.net
From ???@??? Thu Dec 12 14:43:12 2002
Message-Id:
From: Diane Whitehead
Subject: flights to South Africa
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 11:27:56 -0800
I want to go to the bulb conference in Cape Town next August, so I
decided to start checking for a reasonably-priced flight, assuming
that there would be bargains this far in advance. There don't appear
to be. I've checked some airline websites and also travellersweb.com
which told me it was searching millions of possibilities.
From the North American west coast, there are these routes:
Return fares,in order of price, cheapest first, U.S. dollars:
Vancouver to Toronto to Atlanta, then via South African to Cape Town
$2300
Seattle to Chicago to Atlanta to Cape Town
$2391
Vancouver to London to Cape Town
$2440 (From Seattle, $2485)
All the way on South African: Seattle to Atlanta to Cape Town
$2527
Vancouver to San Francisco, to Atlanta, to Cape Town
$2875
Seattle to London to Amsterdam to Cape Town
$3037
More expensive still is Lufthansa: Vancouver to Frankfurt to Cape Town
One good thing about going via London is that a stopover doesn't cost
any extra. I think a stopover would be a good idea, as it is a very
long way to travel. Generally, one leaves here the afternoon of day
one and arrives midmorning of day three. (I know there are time zone
differences I haven't included.)
If anyone knows of any real bargains, could you let me know?
Diane Whitehead Victoria B.C.
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:11:05 2002
Message-Id:
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Haemanthus hybrids
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 17:57:49 -0500
Hi all,
I have seeds ripening on Haemanthus albiflos pollinated with H. humilis
hirsutus, which happened to be blooming at exactly the same time. I've
already mentioned that I had at that time pollinated the H. humilis
hirsutus with fresh pollen of H. coccineus. Those seeds ripened about a
month ago and are now growing under lights.
There were only 2 or 3 seeds per berry in the [humilis hirsutus X
coccineus] berries, but these berries of [albiflos X humilis hirsutus] are
running 4 or 5 seeds per berry. Since the bloom on the H. humilis hirsutus
parent was white, I suppose the eventual blooms on these kids will also be
white. Does anyone know of this cross having been made before? I can't
help wondering what the hybrid plants will someday look like. What can I
expect in bloom time -- 4 to 6 years away?
Regards,
Jim Shields
in central Indiana, where we may get some new snow tomorrow night
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:11:05 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Fw: New update to my website
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 22:57:49 -0500
I noticed that my e-mail software has split the URL - note that you do need
the '=0' at the end of the URL for it to work. Just click on the first part
that is live then add the '=0' to the URL in the browser address bar and hit
return.
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:11:05 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: New update to my website
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 20:20:33 -0800
Dear John,
I really enjoyed your images, especially the orange crocus. I never knew
there could be one. Everyone is really looking forward to your being in
charge of the topic of the week next week as you certainly take great pictures.
What is it about the Ipheion that makes it the star?
Mary Sue
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:11:05 2002
Message-Id:
From: Billthebulbbaron@aol.com
Subject: EMBRYO RESCUE????
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 23:24:14 EST
Does anyone here do this?
I have some VERY important Narcissus seedpods that were mistakenly torn off
by a FLAMING idiot (a.k.a. Darwin's Missing Link)--the seeds are well enough
along to be certain the cross took, but will not be able to ripen from here
on their own.
Best wishes,
Bill the Bulb Baron
William R.P. Welch
P.O. Box 1736
(UPS: 264 West Carmel Valley Road)
Carmel Valley, CA 93924-1736, USA
Phone/fax (831) 659-3830
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:19:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner )
Subject: [Australian_Bulbs] Ipheion sessile
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:56:36 -0800
Dear John:
Your site remains one of the best resources in the web. Thanks for
sharing such superb images. Particularly those of the organs in crocus
flowers are so useful in identification.
The plant we know as Ipheion sessile grows in Argentina and in
Uruguay, normally in well drained soils in full sun. They are
autumn-winter-spring growers flowering in late autumn-early winter. Bulbs
have a buff shell like tunic. Roots are perennial and new roots appear
during dormancy. Bulbs are found some 5 cm deep. In Nature they receive year
round rains, an average of 900 mm. (now with the global warming almost
double that). Temperatures are like for Cape bulbs. Dormancy in summer under
hot conditions in the wild. Although these bulbs have genes for some
hardiness it is far better to grow them almost frost free. Propagation from
seed sown fresh and from offsets.
Kind regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 11:28:17 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Bryan
Subject: Favorite Books--PBS TOW
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:53:53 -0800
Dear All;
A great subject Favorite Books. I have found the South African Wild
Flower Guides, published by the Botanical Society of South Africa to be
a superb series, there are now 11 of them, well worth having and well
illustrated. They are available at a modest price still, and those
interested in such should look into obtaining them. Books by E.A. Bowles
are well worth having, his comments are super, I also like A Botanist in
Southern Africa, by John Hutchinson. Among older books I enjoy are
Cyclopaedia of Botany, 2 volumes published in 1825, the hand colored
illustrations are great, I have two sets of this, while the
illustrations are the same they are not in the same order, kind of fun
to have. The Universal Gardener and Botanist, General Dictionary of
Gardening and Botany published in 1778, is a remarkable book with most
interesting comments, and much can be learned from the advice given so
many years ago. I have been collecting books now and botanical prints
for many years, a fun hobby, it has given me lots of pleasure.
Cheers,
John E. Bryan
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 11:28:17 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alberto Castillo" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner )
Subject: Alstroemeria caryophyllea
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 10:54:44 -0800
Dear Roy:
This is one of the many Brazilian species so little known. It is a
forest plant. Incidentally it is A. caryophyllacea. In zones 10-12 it is
evergreen and makes a very fine dwarf ground cover. Its name makes reference
to the carnation scent. Gorgeous. Thanks for sharing it with us. Your
reference to the hybrids in Japan is very interesting. I had no idea that
the Japanese had been stealing genetic material in Brazil too.
Kind regards
Alberto
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:19:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Bryan
Subject: flights to South Africa
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 11:27:03 -0800
Dear Diane:
Over the years I have found the cheapest way to get to South Africa is
to fly via London. Often this means two separate tickets. I have flown
United to London, and then British Airways from London to Johannesburg.
You have to ask your travel agent for the best routing, I use American
Express Platinum Card travel services and they find the best
combination. I fly to London and stay a few days to get over the jet
lag. Remember United do not fly to South Africa. Often flying via
Frankfurt is a good option, but for my money selecting a good price to
London by any airline and then BA to Joburg is the best. Cheers, John E.
Bryan
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:19:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alan Meerow"
Subject: Alstroemeria caryophyllea
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:51:27 -0500
Alberto,
"I had no idea that the Japanese had been stealing genetic material in Brazil too."
Big time.
Alan
-----------------------------
Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist, Systematist and Curator
USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository
13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA
voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410
email: miaam@ars-grin.gov
WWW page: http://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/SoAtlantic/Miami/bios/bioawm.htm
From ???@??? Fri Dec 13 16:19:21 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Alan Meerow"
Subject: Alstroemeria caryophyllea
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 15:54:12 -0500
One last thing - Roy was right; the correct name is A. caryophyllaea.
Alan
-----------------------------
Alan W. Meerow, Ph.D., Research Geneticist, Systematist and Curator
USDA-ARS-SHRS, National Germplasm Repository
13601 Old Cutler Road, Miami, FL 33158 USA
voice: (305) 254-3635 fax: (305) 969-6410
email: miaam@ars-grin.gov
WWW page: http://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/SoAtlantic/Miami/bios/bioawm.htm
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 16:43:56 2002
Message-Id:
From: Diane Whitehead
Subject: seed-grown calochortus pictures
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:25:27 -0800
I just discovered a bulb site showing Audrey's bulbs. I wonder if she
is a member? She has grown a lot of calochortus from seed, and I
find it very encouraging. If she can do it in the UK, then I can do
it here.
Diane Whitehead Victoria BC Canada
http://www.bulbweb.co.uk/bulbs.htm
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 16:43:56 2002
Message-Id:
From: Diane Whitehead
Subject: South African plant talks on N.Am. west coast
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 14:16:21 -0800
South African plant talks on N.Am. west coast Dave McDonald, Deputy Director of the Botanical Society of South Africa, who was a featured speaker at our February 2001 Western Winter Study Weekend, will be speaking along the North American West Coast, from California this April, north through Oregon, Washington to British Columbia mid-May as a NARGS (North American Rock Garden Society) travelling speaker. Non-NARGS clubs may be able to arrange a talk.
The speaker's fee is $200 U.S., plus transportation from his previous talk, and accommodation. NARGS is paying for the international travel. You can contact the person organizing NARGS Speaker's Tours, Steve Whitesell at Elysium214@aol.com
These are Dave's possible talks, but apparently he will prepare only the 3 most-requested ones of the 6 offered.
1.Winter and spring flowers of the Cape, South Africa (with emphasis on bulbs).
2. Is there an alpine zone in southern Africa? A look at the flora and environments of the mountains of southern Africa.
3. The Roof of Africa: Montane flora of Lesotho and the Drakensberg.
4. Kirstenbosch: Flagship botanical garden of South Africa.
5. The Cape Floral Kingdom -- smallest and richest in the world (covering aspects of flora, geology, ecology etc.)
6. The flora of the Cape Folded Mountains, South Africa.
If you would like to hear him, check with your nearby NARGS chapter to see if they have room for visitors.
Not all chapters have updated their websites with 2003 announcements, so there are likely to be more than I have listed.This information is very rough, so you will definitely need to check before venturing forth.
Apr 21 - Monday
All Meetings at 7:00pm at Etna United Methodist Church, Etna unless other wise mentioned
NARGS Speaker - Dr. David McDonald, Deputy Director of the Botanical Society of South Africa.
April 22, 2003 Tuesday
We meet the second Tuesday of each month, September through May. Meetings are held at the Congregational Church of Medford, 1801 E Jackson Street, Medford, Oregon.
Dr. Dave McDonald - Deputy Director, Botanical Society of South Africa
Topic to be Announced
May 6, 7:30 pm
Dave McDonald
"Roof Gardens of African Mountains"
The Hoyt Arboretum, 4000 SW Fairview Blvd, Portland
May 8, 2003
Seattle
Regular meetings are held on the second Thursday of each month, September through June, promptly at 7:30 PM at UW Center for Urban Horticulture (CUH), 3501 NE 41st Street, Seattle, 206 543-8616. South Africa: Cape Flora, Dr. David McDonald, Deputy Director, Botanical Society of South Africa
Mid May
Vancouver BC
Alpine Garden Club of B.C.
VanDusen Gardens, Floral Hall, 37th and Oak, Vancouver on the second Wednesday, September through June, opening at 7:00, meeting at 7:30 (dates may change according to speakers' schedules).
Diane Whitehead
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 16:43:56 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: Clivia seed germination
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 15:00:48 -0800
Hi all,
I just wrote the following to someone unfamiliar with germinating amaryllid
seeds and thought I might post it in case there are others who have ordered
the Clivia seeds from Pen (thru PBS) in Oz and aren't quite sure what to do
with them. I am NOT an authority on this topic but this is probably close to
good enough. Any other input gratefully accepted as always.
Yes, Clivias are "large amaryllid seeds" and while yours may not be green,
the "green fleshy seed" comment applies to Clivia seeds as well.
Many people put them onto damp/wet (not sopping) paper toweling in a plastic
sandwitch bag (not sealed) up on a window sill with indirect light and after
they germinate, then plant them.
I don't have the time or patience (plus I have some very nosey cats) so I
just plant them into a small plastic pot. For two seeds, I'd put them both
into a 4 inch pot with sterilized seedling soil. You can leave them on the
surface, perhaps sanding the surface of the potting medium, and press the
seed into the surface of the soil so that they are about half burried. Keep
the pot where the air circulation is good, on the warm side, and with no
direct sun. Most amaryllid seeds in nature germinate on the soil surface.
They will first put out a radical (white thing that looks like a root - and
is). The radical will grow out and down into the soil. (If the radical gets
to an inch or two and is still on the surface, make a hole in the mix with a
pencil and drop the radical into the hole leaving the seed on the soil
surface). A little later (a week or two?) it will send up another shoot tip
that is the begining of the plant's first leaf.
Considering it is now winter here, bottom heat may hasten germination. But
if your house is normally warm, it may not be necessary. Regarding soil
again, you can also plant in any good-draining bulb type soil mixture. IMO
the most important thing is sterility to prevent damping off and good air
circulation (same reason).
Unless the soil is sopping wet and stays so, seeds are not that picky about
'drainage'. And seedling soil besides being sterilized (IF the label says
so) usually has some Sponge Rok in it and the drainage isn't particularly
bad anyway. You can probably leave them in that pot for a year. They will
appreciate some very dilute liquid fertilizer with each watering and will
likely grow faster with that plus some artificial light (if available).
(Harold K says no fertilizer needed for a few months). Over time, the seed
will eventually become dessicated and shrivel up as the plant exhausts the
nutrients inside the seed by its growth.
Clivias are evergreen so you will not lose any time to dormancy. Being they
are seeds and not plants, they probably won't care about being switched from
southern hemisphere to northern hemisphere (just a guess). They hate full
sun and it will always burn the leaves and for all I know, it may be enough
to kill a small young seedling. So never any direct sun.
Per Harold K Ideal temps appear to be from 60F to 90F. That should cover
most houses.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 16:43:56 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Georgie"
Subject: seed-grown calochortus pictures
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 20:42:22 -0800
To Diane Whitehead --
I do not know if "Audrey" is a member of PBS, but I took a look at the
website you suggested. The "home page" address is actually --
I had trouble accessing the database after looking at the first two
pictures - don't know what went wrong. Her brief remarks on methods for
growing from seed seem straightforward and with reasonable hope of success
for the two species I was able to access -- C. westoni and C. weedii (var.
weedii). Diane, I can assure you there are folks in BC - further north than
you - successfully growing Calochortus, because the Robinett Bulb Farm
always had customers for both bulbs and seed from there. If you are quite
interested in Calochortus, you may want to sign up for our quarterly
newsletter MARIPOSA, now mid-way through its 14th volume-year. It's
available through me, G. B. Robinett, at P. O. Box 1993, Brookings, OR
97415. The sub price is US$ 13 a year for airmail to Canada and overseas
(US$10 a year in the US), for four issues (appearing July, October, January,
and April). All subscriptions are for a full volume year (to keep management
of the subscription list easy). Each issue usually features a single
species, with a full page of color photographs; and there is an annual seed
exchange. From time to time there are special articles on cultivation and
other topics. The most useful for you would probably be the article by Diana
Chapman (of Telos Rare Bulbs) published last year on the success she has
enjoyed with some of the more difficult species, growing in the Eureka, CA
area. All back issues are available. If you decide to subscribe, please ask
for a list of back issues and what species each covers.
----------- Georgie Robinett
--
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 16:43:56 2002
Message-Id:
From: Diane Whitehead
Subject: seed-grown calochortus pictures
Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 21:47:40 -0800
Re: seed-grown calochortus pictures Georgie,
I know that Calochortus can grow in B.C., as I have seen acres of macrocarpa in flower in the dry interior, and others in the mountains.I'm not so sure of success near the shore, though.
I have a few wispy seedlings for which I have hope.That is odd that you couldn't access the pictures on Audrey's site. I double-clicked on the url I had in my message, scrolled to Calochortus in the first box, and got the following impressive list of species, most of which have photographs.
Most seem to be flowering for her in 3 or 4 years from seed, but some took longer. C. dunnii, for instance, took 7 years.
Diane Whitehead
albus - Bay form
albus rubellus
albus sierra form
albus wild collected amabilis amoenus apiculatus argillosus barbatus bruneaunis caeruleus
caeruleus fimbriatus cataliniae chihuahuensis clavatus
clavatus recurvifolius concolor coxii dunnii elegans euricarpus excavatus flexuosus fuscus gunnisonii howellii invenustus kennedyi
kennedyi munzii leichtlinii luteus
lyallii
macrocarpus
minimus
monophyllus
nitidus
nudus
obispoensis
palmeri
palmeri var. Munzii
panamintensis
plummerae
pulchellus
simulans
splendens
striatus
subalpinus
superbus
syntropus
tolmiei
umbellatus
umpquaensis
uniflorus
venustus
venustus 2 spot
venustus red form
vestae
weedii
weedii-brown rim
westonii
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 17:14:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jane McGary
Subject: seed-grown calochortus
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 10:59:30 -0800
I don't have all the species that Diane mentioned were shown on Audrey's
website -- I'm missing caeruleus, chihuahuensis, dunnii, flexuosus,
macrocarpus, minimus, panamintensis, and umbellatus of those cited. I do
have a few not mentioned on the previous list. I have never managed to
germinate seed of C. macrocarpus, even what I collected myself in the wild,
so I drive over the mountains and enjoy it in the wild. Most were grown
from seed from private collectors' lists, especially Ron Ratko's Northwest
Native Seeds and the Archibands' seed.
I plant the seed as early as I can and bring it into a frost-free plant
room when it germinates. Usually I pot the seedlings on the first summer,
though this is sometimes not recommended. Last spring, Ron Ratko kindly
sent me some seed of previous years that he thought was "past its pull
date," and I held it until fall, then planted it; some is germinating very
well and I suspect it all will eventually.
I've tried a few species in the open garden, but they all either got eaten
by rodents or dwindled away, I assume because of wet cold conditions. Now
they are all in the bulb frames, where they flower regularly and set plenty
of seed (see the NARGS Seed Exchange for a good sampling this year). I have
placed some C. uniflorus, the closest to a native species, in the rock
garden this fall where I hope the voles won't penetrate. C. subalpinus
grows quite near here, too, but at a much higher elevation where it is
under snow all winter. I think I put some C. albus out too, or if not will
do so next summer. C. tolmiei has struggled through a couple of winters but
eventually disappeared. I'm pretty sure the problem is not temperature but
excessive moisture in early winter.
Once they start blooming, they seem to do so every year. I think that at
least some of them do not want to be dried out really severely in summer.
For example, C. amoenus, a two-tone rose-pink that is one of my favorites,
responded very well after being repotted into soil that was, I thought,
much too moist owing to a wet July.
As for time to flowering, I think the average is four years, but some have
taken six here. You can gain a year, once you have stock, by propagating
the little stem bulbils formed by many species; when removing dried stems,
examine them carefully near the base to make sure you're not throwing these
away.
Jane McGary
Northwest Oregon, USA
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 16:43:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Kathy Andersen"
Subject: [GreatLakesBulbs] Clivia seed germination
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 14:11:21 -0500
About 1/3 of those I planted on December 5 have sent out radicals. The
seeds were place in a mixture of compost, Promix, turface and granny grit in
a very large sealed box on a shelf in a light stand so that conditions
inside the box are very warm and humid. Seeds of C. caulescens planted in
the same manner on September 23 are putting up a second leaf.
Kathy Andersen
ksa@del.net
> Uh oh, the race is ON!
>
> Cathy Craig President PBS
>
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 17:14:57 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 19:52:28 -0500
Mary Sue asked me to introduce and moderate the above topic, and I agreed,
without thinking too deeply about the monster that was about to be
unleashed. That's what happens when people ask so nicely !
Rather than make this too specific too soon, I thought I'd let it go
whichever way you want it to go after a relatively brief introduction (if
that's possible with this subject) summarizing the way I do things to
generate images for 35mm slide production, the web and for printing. Each
sub-topic is a TOW in itself. I should say up front I am absolutely not a
skilled photographer so will defer to someone else all questions about the
finer points of photography. The results which can be obtained by a
relative clown are testament to the ease of use of new digital cameras !
All aspects of image manipulation are also self-taught and I would love to
hear from someone expert in the intricacies of Adobe Photoshop who won't
mind me bugging them every couple of days.
I now use a digital camera to meet all my photography needs, prints, slides
and web images. I am very happy with the results and don't envisage ever
having to go back to slide or print film. As we bring up the various
aspects of digital plant photography I'd love to hear about alternatives -
cameras, software and techniques - as I'm sure there are many better and
different ways to do this.
I have always used Nikon digital cameras, either a Coolpix 950 or now a
Coolpix 995. The former offered 2 million pixel (mega pixel) resolution,
the latter 3.4. The 995 is perfect for all my digital photography needs,
having superb Nikon optics, sufficient resolution and a wonderful macro
facility built in that allows close focus to 1/8". The unique design that
allows the lens to swivel independently of the body makes taking low down
shots a breeze, without ever having to lay down and crawl through the mud.
This camera cost around $700 but has already been superceded at least twice
as resolution etc. gets better.
Good digital cameras are pretty much like good SLRs and most of the rules
are the same - and the digital camera gives you just as much flexibility,
just using a different interface. You do need to choose the format in which
to save your images - this will determine how many you can save and what
quality they will be. The ultimate quality gives you huge files and slow
downloads, I compromise by using the jpg format but with minimal
compression - this gives me the best of both worlds, a file around 1Mb that
downloads quickly with almost no loss in quality from a TIF file. You need
some removable physical memory to save your digital images to - and this
varies greatly as well, in capacity, type and ease of getting images onto
the computer. I use a 256 megabyte type II flash card, pretty standard, but
it is important to get plenty of memory. The cards that come with the
cameras are woefully short of capacity. You need to get the images from the
camera to the computer and you can do this directly or indirectly. I have
never even installed the software that comes with the cameras, preferring to
use a flash card reader (which acts as a mini-hard drive) to download images
straight to my PC, into a directory kept for that purpose.
Once on your PC (or Mac) the world is your oyster ! I have two programs
which are indispensable - one to manage my image database, and one to
manipulate the images into their final form. The former is called
ThumbsPlus ($75 download from cerious.com) - and it is really a Windows
Explorer which works with thumbnails made from the images in your
directories. That is a gross over-simplification and it is exceptionally
powerful. One of the prime uses I make of it is to batch rename all my
images - saves typing these in for every one. This program also has a
preview feature - you can look at large previews of each file instantly by
clicking on the thumbnail.
After naming, some manipulation is always going to be necessary to get the
finished product and for this I use Adobe Photoshop. The latest full
version is very expensive ($700) but there are much cheaper slimmed down
versions available which do most of what you need. There are also several
alternative programs out there. Within Photoshop (PS) I correct the
exposure, get rid of any blemishes (if necessary), re-size and change the
resolution as appropriate, sharpen the image and save for the web or
printing. There are also a zillion tools available for doing every possible
manipulation under the sun - and there are books several inches thick
available to help you do just this.
Images for the web are surprisingly low resolution (72 dpi) whereas to get
good prints of a reasonable size you need higher resolution images (300dpi).
For printing I use an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 ink jet printer - and get
results which are just outstanding. Improvements in technology allow for
prints which will last 75 years or more using archival quality papers and
inks. The 1280 is around $450 but you can get great prints from prints at
1/3/ to 1/2 that amount. For producing photos for web site use, PS has a
'save for web' utility which allows you to maximize quality whilst reducing
file size automatically to the low levels suited for rapid downloads. Like
ThumbsPlus, PS has a batch utility which allows you to process hundreds of
images with a single command.
So, very simply, that's the process I use to satisfy all my plant
photography needs. Let's hear about alternatives, issues, questions and
comments - this can be as simple or as cutting edge as we like - it's up to
you ! Given that I can print a magazine quality 10 x 8 image in my basement
5 minutes after taking the picture, this technology is here to stay and
enjoy - and there's certainly nothing difficult about it !
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 22:23:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: Arnold
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 20:40:49 -0500
John:
Thanks for the wonderful intro to the vast world of photography. I
find that taking digital ( or any ) images the light plays an
important role in the color rendition. The colors seem to be truer when
images are captured with less than full sunlight. Full suns tends to
wash out the color and reduces the contrast that one would want.
So, could you briefly discuss the light ( time of day, backlight etc.,)
you find most effective for good detail and color rendition.
Thanks,
Arnold
New Jersey
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 22:23:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 22:27:16 -0500
Arnold,
That's an interesting question and I think my solution probably flies in the
face of conventional wisdom. I say the latter because a professional
photographer who often stops by here prays for cloudy or rainy days prior to
her visit. I take a lot of close-up, or relatively close-up images and need
good depth of field to get everything in focus that I want. To do this I
need a small aperture, hence if I have any choice in the matter I take my
photos on sunny days, with the subject in full sun or very good light. You
do have to watch for shadows on the subject giving excessive contrast across
the image put careful positioning works pretty well. I use matrix metering
as my exposure control and get evenly exposed images, usually requiring
little adjustment. Color rendition seems excellent and I've never had
obvious (to my eyes) discrepancies between the colors I see and those
captured by the camera and rendered on screen or print. I also like the
vibrancy introduced by sunlight - pictures taken without it seem rather flat
in comparison. I very rarely use flash, if I have to then it is the built
in flash that I use, no backlights, nothing fancy. With respect to detail I
find that the Coolpix 995 gives outstanding results both close up and from
afar. I mentioned I do sharpen all images - needed whatever the camera or
source of the image and I use PS to do this. The camera's sharpening option
is turned off - I like to get something off the camera that has not been
manipulated at all, the latter can be done better and more consistently in
PS.
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Sun Dec 15 22:23:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2002 21:00:28 -0800
Thanks for the introduction, John, that is very clear.
I am interested in the math:
Do the pixels (and megapixels) refer to how many pixels cover the entire
image when the photo is taken?
So that if the photo is NOT compressed by the camera into JPEG format, each
image one took would contain the maximum number of pixels that the camera is
rated for (or at)? Therefore in theory, each non-compressed image would
contain 3.4 megapixels (for a camera rated at 3.4 megapixels)?
And, if the camera compresses the image into JPEG format, is there some rule
of thumb we can use to calculate how many pixels would be left (how many
pixels would comprise the JPEG image) after compression? My understanding of
JPEG is that this compression leaves out all the adjacent same-color dots
but one, so for every line of dots on an image (like this .................)
the JPEG compression would replace this line with one 'dot' if all these
dots are the same color. My guess would be that JPEG might compress a raw
image down to about 15% of the original - only a crude guess.
Thanks. More math questions later.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
> I have always used Nikon digital cameras, either a Coolpix 950 or now a
> Coolpix 995. The former offered 2 million pixel (mega pixel) resolution,
> the latter 3.4.
>
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 17:47:30 2002
Message-Id:
From: IntarsiaCo@aol.com
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images...
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 08:06:01 EST
Hi John and Arnold:
In PS, I have found that using the Curves tool (Images;Adjustments;Curves) is an easy way to do minor color balance adjustments that eliminate the unwanted color casts.
Mark Mazer
Intarsia Ltd.
Gaylordsville, CT 06755-0142
www.therapyshapes.com
USDA Zone 5
Giant Schnauzer Rescue
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 17:47:30 2002
Message-Id:
From: Lauw de Jager
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulationof images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 21:12:31 +0100
John Lonsdale a *crit :
> I now use a digital camera to meet all my photography needs, prints, slides
> and web images.
John, how do you produce slides from digital images?
> I have two programs which are indispensable - one to manage my image
> database, and one to
> manipulate the images into their final form. The former is called
> ThumbsPlus
> One of the prime uses I make of it is to batch rename all my
> images - saves typing these in for every one. This program also has a
> preview feature - you can look at large previews of each file instantly by
> clicking on the thumbnail.
>
> After naming, some manipulation is always going to be necessary to get the
> finished product and for this I use Adobe Photoshop.
>
John,
Many thanks for leading this particular interesting discussion. So far it
becoming quite clear to me. As I understand the two progams Thumbsplus and
Photoshop are intended to receive, name and manupilate the images.
However, I would like some help with how to store, manage the various images.
First I thought to stock them in my current database which manages the species
for the nursery. But that make makes too whealdy to work with. Would it be
possible to use a separate database such as File maker of the Microsoft Acces
for storing and organising the images ( each image accompanied with
information such as name, date, place taken or origin and the use made of it
etc).
As all scans and digital images are stored at a high resolution , which
demands high capacity storage. I envisage to purchase a a high capacity hard
disc inwhich to unload all images photo CD and photo files in the computer.
Any ideas and help woud be much appreciated
Kind regards
Lauw de Jager
BULB'ARGENCE, 30300 Fourques, France
Région: Provence/Camargue, (Climat zone 9a Mediterranean)
Site: http://www.bulbargence.com/
"GUIDE POUR BULBES MÉDITERRANÉENS": 116 pages, 400 photos, prix 10 E
LE CATALOGUE D'HIVER (WINTERCATALOG) sera disponible en janvier; vous pouvez
commander par le site maintenant pour un envoi, à partir de maintenant jusqu'à
fin mars.
(En fleurs actuellement à l'extérieur: Cyclamen pseudibericum, Dahlia
imperialis, Gladiolus dalenii, Crocus, Oxalis bowiei, versicolor, masoniorum,
Nerine undulata, bowdeni 'Pink Triumph', Narcissus tazetta 'Paperwhite',
Chinese sacred lily, Double, Moraea polystachya, Lachenalia bulbifera)
-
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 17:47:30 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulationof images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 16:05:16 -0500
ThumbsPlus is effectively your image database which allows you to manage all
your images. You can do everything you mention above within ThumbsPlus.
Just set up a suitable series of directories on your hard drive within which
to store the images in an easily retrievable way.
>
In addition to the 40 Gb boot drive which holds my operating system (XP
Pro), I have a second internal Maxtor 120Gb hard drive on which I store all
my images and install my programs. I also have 2 external USB 2.0 Maxtor
40Gb hard drives which I use as back-ups. Being totally paranoid about
losing thousands of images, I also back-up my data to my daughter's PC over
a wireless network. Unless we are hit directly by a neutron bomb, one or
other of my backups should survive !
J.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 17:47:30 2002
Message-Id:
From: "J.E. Shields"
Subject: Seeds of Haemanthus hybrid
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:56:10 -0500
I am harvesting the ripe berried from my cross in September of Haemanthus
albiflos X Haemanthus humilis hirsutus. There are more seeds being
produced than I need for my own use, so I am offering the extras for
sale. Please consult my Seed sales web pages at URL =
http://www.shieldsgardens.com/Seeds/HaemanthusSeeds.html
I have no idea what the seedlings will turn out to be like! Both parents
are of small to modest stature, the flowers are white paintbrush type. The
leaves of the albiflos I am using are mostly smooth and hairless, while the
hirsutus leaves are oval and hairy. The primary hybrids between two
species in many genera are simply averages between the traits of the two
species used. On the other hand, there is an outside chance of hybrid
vigor producing some sort of giant Haemanthus (I don't really expect that!)
regards,
Jim Shields
*************************************************
Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd.
P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/
Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA Tel. +1-317-896-3925
Member of INTERNATIONAL CLIVIA CO-OP
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 18:04:04 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:54:36 -0500
Cathy,
Yes, the pixels refer to the pixels dimensions of the image, e.g. 640 x
480, 1600 x 1200 etc. With most cameras you can select from multiple pixel
dimensions for the capture of your original images. For example I use 2048
x 1536, to gibe me 3.4 megapixels, or so.
The pixel dimensions have nothing to do with compression. The latter is a
way of driving down the file size (and quality) whilst maintaining the pixel
dimensions. Thus I can save my original 2048 x 1536 image with whatever
compression I want in the jpg format, to end up with a variety of file sizes
proportional to the compression. You can also independently change both the
resolution (in pixels per inch or dots per inch, dpi) and the pixel
dimensions of an image, for example to get an original down to the 640 x 480
format I use for web work with a resolution of 72 dpi. In this case PS
resamples the pixels and cuts out a number to bring the dimensions down to
the value I've chosen. Compression, pixel dimensions and resolution are
completely different things but in combination determine the quality and
file size of your final image. In going from the camera to the web I reduce
both the file size by compression and the pixel dimensions by resizing. A
jpg is just a file format made by lossy compression - it can be as much or
as little compressed as you choose, depending upon your needs.
J.
PS. And how about comments from someone other than me - PLEASE !
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone: 610 594 9232
Fax: 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http://www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 18:24:22 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Davd Fenwick" (by way of Mary Sue Ittner )
Subject: TOTW
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 18:21:46 -0800
Hi Lauw and all,
Re. Storage of images.
Here I simply use Windows Explorer to make folders and sub-folders and I do
this for every genera. I've found it the easiest and simplest way of finding
pictures quickly and easily.
e.g.
Folder - South African Bulbs
sub-folder - genus
sub-folder - species
sub-folder - hybrid
To view the files I use two programs.
Firstly a program called ACDSee which allows me to view, copy and move
thumbnails in respective folders and sub-folders. However this is only good
for images up to 250Kb because of the time it takes the pics to load.
For larger files I use a program called Exif Viewer (thumbnail browser),
this comes with the new Fuji digital cameras and it is very good at viewing
thumbnails of much larger camera images. It comes with another program
called DP Editor which is the viewer.
Regarding manipulation I find Paint Shop Pro 4 ideal and does most things
the larger programs do. I have also found that if you stick with one and
learn how to use it, it's much better than trying to use several to no great
effect.
All these programs are very small and don't take a lot of room up on the
drive, hence more room for pics.
Here I've partitioned my hard drive so that I can store a large volume of
pictures on the D partition. Then when windows has a problem (as it usually
does) I can then format the C drive, set up Windows, and all my pics and
work are still there.
Best Wishes,
Dave
David Fenwick
NCCPG National Collection of Crocosmia with Chasmanthe and Tulbaghia
The African Garden
96 Wasdale Gardens
Estover
Plymouth
Devon
England
PL6 8TW
Website: www.theafricangarden.com
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 20:09:00 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:44:20 +0800
This question is not about actual digital photography but more a request for
help on deciding which camera would be the best to buy. I have made the
decision to upgrade my very humble little Sony Mavica FD 73 which has served
me very well but just isnt up to what I require / never was really, but was
what I could afford at the time. I am tossing up between the NikonCoolpix
5700 and the Sony DSCF 717. As for me, it is a very major purchase I want
to be sure this time of getting the very best for my money. Can anyone give
me advice on the way to go please.
TIA
From ???@??? Mon Dec 16 21:28:59 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mary Sue Ittner
Subject: Audrey Cain's web site, was seed-grown calochortus pictures
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:44:17 -0800
Dear All,
We just got our power back on a few hours ago. There have been a series of
wet windy storms and we have been without power for most of the time since
Saturday morning. Obviously our server has a generator as I see messages
have been coming and going in the meantime.
Audrey Cain is part of our list and I enjoy her web page as well. She
obviously is very successful growing quite a lot of things and I like that
she lists her sources and how long it takes for her to grow things from
seed to flower.
Audrey, if you aren't too busy would you share with the group a little bit
about conditions where you live and your methods that obviously are
successful. I am sure that everyone would be very interested.
Mary Sue
PBS Administrator
From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 07:38:42 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mark Wilcox
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 02:55:34 -0800 (PST)
Mary,
Yours is a question that comes up often. My suggestion is to take a look
at the following site: http://www.megapixel.net/
While it's very difficult for us to keep up on the latest in digital
cameras, they do just that on this site, which is free to people like you
who are trying to compare cameras they've never used before in order to
make a decision on what to purchase. Their reviews are quite complete,
and multi-page. They're not afraid to point out negative aspects.
There's be a drop down box that you use to move to the various pages in
each review, which takes getting used to.
In 2000 I used this site to learn more about various cameras, which
eventually resulted in my decision to get the Olympus C2500-L, which I
haven't regretted.
Looking forward to seeing pictures from your new camera,
Mark
--- Mary Wise wrote:
> This question is not about actual digital photography but more a
> request for
> help on deciding which camera would be the best to buy.
From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 16:06:39 2002
Message-Id:
From: "anthony goode"
Subject: TOW Digital Photography
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 23:09:13 -0000
as little compressed as you choose, depending upon your needs.
J.
PS. And how about comments from someone other than me - PLEASE !
Dr John T Lonsdale ...
OK John, you've roused me into having my say. However you should not
be surprised that we hesitate to chip in when your introduction and
subsequent comments amount to a masterclass - and don't bother to
argue that point, we've all seen the evidence of your prowess!
For everyone else, I'm afraid that a lot of this will sound familiar
as I have been a convert to the 'Lonsdale Method' for a couple of
years now. (Consider this a testimony in support of Johns comments.)
I had been looking into purchasing a slide scanner to enable me to
convert some of my slides into digital files for web use. John soon
convinced me that a digital camera would be an easier, cheaper and
more successful option. His experience with the Coolpix 950 and
comparison with many other web images of plants convinced me to
purchase that Nikon camera. As you know J has progressed along with
the Nikon range, I, however am still using my 950 (they can still be
obtained quite cheaply second hand in the UK) and remain happy with
theresults. I have recently had some slides made by EDI and the results
are superb, close ups far better than I can get with my old SLR
camera. I have considered buying a newer and more sophisticated SLR
camera but the expense of camera and lenses, especially a good macro
lens, has deterred me. Now I can do everything that I want digitally
at a much reduced cost. $1.95 (=£1.25) per slide may seem expensive
but you get 100% perfect shots - no more duds, and of corse the same
applies to prints. EDI offer adigital print service at $0.49 for a 6"x4" print which compares OK with £0.39 from Kodak in the UK and £0.30 from Nikon in the UK.
(Nikon have a sliding scale, prints get cheaper the more you order.)
There are still colour issues, just as with conventional 35mm film.
What you see on the screen may not quite match the original or what
you get on a print. If you have your own printer you have more
control and of course the ability to manipulate the images gives you
ultmate control. You can even bring the plant (or a sample) indoors
to compare with the screen image! My camera came with Photoshop LE
and Fotostation as part of the deal. This cut down version of PS can
be purchased seperately for around 20% the price of the full version.
I find it more than adequate although it does not have the batch
facility that J mentions. Fotostation does a similar job to Thumbs
Plus, allowing me to file my images in various folders on my hard
drive, Cd or Zip disc, giving me thumbnail images as a preview when I
open the chosen folder. I can alter the display to show from 2 to 104
thumbnails at once, a useful feature. (At a guess Thumbs is a more
powerful tool - J knows his stuff.)
I have chosen to purchase a CD writer (would opt for one built in as
part of the package if I were buying a new PC) for back up. I keep a
set of back-up CDs at my Mother-in-Laws just in case the worst should
happen - I wonder where J keeps his external hard drives?!!
I do find that the best pictures are taken in bright light, the
Coolpix 950 does not give such good results in very dull conditions.
2 years and 7000 images down the road (half have beeen discarded as no
good ... all those duds at no extra cost) I would not go back. I'll
keep my SLR for plant holidays, using it alongside the digital for a
while but in the long term I can see it being discarded.
Hope this helps
Tony Goode. Norwich UK
From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 16:06:39 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Mary Wise"
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:07:06 +0800
Thanks so much for the url. Mark I sat up until the wee small hours going
through it. Now I am totaly confused LOL, no not really just kidding it is
a great help in my decision but of course I guess the best way is to try
various cameras to see which I can best cope with. it is far too hot just
now to be travelling up to the city so will perhaps have to wait until later
in the New Year when the weather gats a little more civilised.
Thanks again.
From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 18:22:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: Mark Wilcox
Subject: TOW - Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation of images for printing, the web etc.
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:42:49 -0500
Well, OK, John...
I just wanted to point out that buying Photoshop isn't necessary to be able to
do satisfactory editing of digital pictures. Is the learning curve really as
steep as people say with regard to that software?
Most cameras include editing software as part of the package. However, they
may offer a bit less in the way of features and versatility than some users
would like to have.
I'm very happy with Paint Shop Pro for the IBM, which sells for under $100 in
the USA. The program actually does more than I need it to do. Every picture I
post to any images list was edited with it.
Mark Wilcox
Washington, DC
From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 18:22:08 2002
Message-Id:
From: "Cathy Craig"
Subject: TOW Digital Photography
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 17:48:47 -0800
Can John L. or Tony explain about the lenses? I had a Cannon A5 and now have
an Olympus Camedia D-360L. My main gripe about the A5, and the D-360L also
to some extent, is that the lense that comes on the camera is in my opinion
equal to a non-digital SLR lense = 35mm which amounts to a wide angle lense.
This is very annoying as I have to clear the background of junk for 5 yards
in every direction or the lense picks it up as well as the plant I am
photographing.
It also collects way too much light and on both cameras I have to keep
turning off the flash, even at night.
Are the lenses on cameras different now? It would be nice if they had lenses
= 50 mm and not 35mm.
Cathy Craig President PBS
Maritime zone 9b
>Tony Goode wrote:
> I do find that the best pictures are taken in bright light, the
> Coolpix 950 does not give such good results in very dull conditions.
From ???@??? Tue Dec 17 21:18:24 2002
Message-Id:
From: Antennaria@aol.com
Subject: Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 00:10:36 EST
This is a most interesting subject. John Lonsdale has done a terrific job of
thoroughly "covering the bases" and sharing lots of useful information. I'm
impressed both by the detailed scope of coverage, and by the description of
his personal computer management and backup strategies that far surpass my
hack-job attempts at organization (it's certainly ad hoc chaos here). For
those that operate more by the seat of their pants, I have a few suggestions
and opinions:
>The cards that come with the
>cameras are woefully short of capacity.
True enough, the memory cards that ship with cameras are mere tokens. You
must always separataly purchase higher capacity flash cards that hold 60 MB
or more. With the larger capacity cards, you can easily take an unreasonable
quantity of photos! ;-)
>You need to get the images from the
>camera to the computer and you can do
>this directly or indirectly. I have never
>even installed the software that comes
>with the cameras, preferring to use a flash
>card reader (which acts as a mini-hard drive)
>to download images straight to my PC, into
>a directory kept for that purpose.
It should be noted that printers have come a long way, and now come
predisposed ready to deal with digital camera flash cards as an industry
standard. When you purchase a printer these days, they are remarkably cheap.
I bought a color HP Photosmart 1115 last year for less than $200, and as
with most printers today it comes with support for digital photos, including
built-in slots/readers for flash cards including the newer ultra-thin cards,
buttons on the printer to automatically download the photos from the card,
and software bundles such as ACDsee and Photo Imaging software. So there's
little need to buy a separate flash-card reader to download digital pics...
just buy a new printer and it's all built-in.
>After naming, some manipulation is always
>going to be necessary to get the finished
>product and for this I use Adobe Photoshop.
>The latest full version is very expensive ($700)
>but there are much cheaper slimmed down
>versions available which do most of what you need.
I agree with Dave Fenwick that Paint Shop Pro is an excellent solution. At
work I have Photoshop, Photoshop Elements (lite version), Paint Shop Pro, and
other graphics software. I like Paint Shop Pro best. I think that
inexperienced graphics-software users will do very well with the VERY
affordable yet undeniably powerful Paint Shop Pro (about $70) versus
Photoshop (+ $700). Photoshop is tremendous overkill for some users who
could suffice with a simpler program like Paint Shop Pro. Unless you're a
grahics pro, or have the dollars, Photoshop is like having a sledge-hammer to
trim a hang-nail. Paint Shop Pro is eassier and more "user friendly", yet
surprisingly powerful and comparable. For imaging professionals however, or
for very specific Photoshop capabilities, Photoshop is the way to go. I'm
not a pro yet, so I'm quite satified with Paint Shop Pro.
>Images for the web are surprisingly low resolution
>(72 dpi) whereas to get good prints of a reasonable
>size you need higher resolution images (300dpi).
>For printing I use an Epson Stylus Photo 1280 ink
>jet printer - and get results which are just outstanding.
Regarding JPG file format (the 72 dpi JPG format is certainly universal for
the web), it should be noted that 20%-25% compression is typical.
Compression ratios higher than that usually results in visual image
degradation. Images in JPG format with compression suitable for web viewing,
are completely non-suitable for printing purposes. JPG files with
compression print poorly, the compression resulting in noticeable image
distortion and "artifacts". For printing purposes, images should be saved in
TIF format or JPG format WITHOUT compression.
Regarding time of day to take digital photos, digital cameras do a really
fine job as compared to single lens reflex cameras. Under very low light
conditions, digital cameras are more forgiving and deliver better quality
photos than one might expect. As someone who has a 1-1/2 hour commute each
way to work, I almost always end up photographing early morning or late
afternoon/early evening when light is low (drat). Yet in full sunlight,
digital cameras do better than SLR cameras at mitigating strong shadows and
contrast, and yeild consistently better results. With digital cameras, John
is most defintely correct, photos taken in full sunlight are preferred.
The only frustration I've experienced with digital cameras, and it's a major
frustration, has to do with the camera itself. I borrow from a fleet of
digital cameras we have at work, the cameras selected to service our
Architects and Engineers that need to take longer-distance jobsite photos.
The cameras we purchased are excellent in general, yet terrible for close up
macro photography. For photographing narrow, thin plants such as Alliums (my
main area of interest), general digital cameras are extremely difficult and
frustrating because the automatic focus looks beyond the narrow target and
blurs the image. Attempts to manually correct the focus and depth of field
are difficult and unsatisfactory at best. One apparently needs a digital
camera specifically designed for close-up macro photography such as the Nikon
Coolpix camera. It's on the horizon for me... I must buy my own camera with
macro photography capabilities in the new year.
Happy Holidays all!
Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States
antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5
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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 21:19:39 -0800
Subject: Re: TOW Digital Photography
From: Douglas Westfall
To: "Pacific Bulb Society"
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> It also collects way too much light and on both cameras I have to keep
> turning off the flash, even at night.
Cathy,
Check your manual. That problem can be avoided.
Doug
From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 08:31:40 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale
Subject: Digital Photography of Plants and subsequent manipulation
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 08:55:12 -0500
Many thanks to all of you who have responded to my plea and jumped into the
discussion with some very valuable advice and comments.
I would agree wholeheartedly with those who say Photoshop is overkill for
99.9% of us interested in plant digital photography, myself included. I
really do only scratch the surface, although purchase on Saturday of the
book 'Photoshop for Dummies' should help me go deeper. For example, I
haven't done it yet but shall start using it do get rid of annoying labels
in images that I didn't have time to physically remove or never noticed when
shooting. I have Photoshop for reasons other than because I have the
dollars or am a photo editing pro - I was the lucky recipient of a gift of
it (legally and licensed of course !). I would be in big trouble though
without the batch process facility as I use this to automate every process -
buy a program with this if you can.
One of the huge advantages of digital photography that mark M brought out
should be emphasized. You can shoot the equivalent of a roll of slide film
very quickly on each and every subject to get that one image that you can
use for slides, web and print - at effectively no cost in time or money,
once you've made the original capital outlay.
With respect to printers that have flash card slots, or readers, built in.
I advised a friend a few weeks ago who wanted a good new printer not to go
this route simply because a lot of extra dollars have gone into non-print
related features that I'm unsure of the utility of. In addition to the card
reader there are a variety of buttons and an LCD screen. You always need to
do something to the image before printing, hence my recommendation to go
down the separate card reader route. Incidentally, on that note, SanDisk
have now just brought out a reader than reads 6 different cards, flash,
secure digital etc) and is USB2.0 format - i.e. 40 times faster than
standard USB - all for $45. To my mind this is the best way to go - and
your photo transfer from camera to computer is lightning fast and
independent of other hardware and/or software. Mark - does the card reader
on a printer allow transfer to the computer or just to the printer ?
Mark M also brought up TIF vs. JPG choices for saving images and is quite
right that an uncompressed TIF file is higher quality than a high quality
JPG. There is an issue though with taking all your images in TIF format, as
I found out ! If I set my 995 to capture 2048 x 1536 TIF files it takes
over 20s to save the image to the flash card memory, and I use a SanDisk
Ultra card which does this 2-3 times faster than a standard flash card.
This is unbelievably frustrating ! You also end up with a file that is 9Mb
in size so it takes longer to move around. I did a comparison between TIF
and the best JPG format offered, which has minimal compression, and to all
intents and purposes the results are indistinguishable until the image is
blown up to huge proportions. I concluded that for my needs the high
quality JPG worked best because the quality was still superb, I could
capture the image in 2 seconds and the file was only 1-2Mb in size.
With respect to compression - the images you see on my web site have been
compressed to 40% of their original quality.
I concur wholly with Mark and Tony's comments on the quality and utility of
the Nikon Coolpix 99x range for close-up macro photography. It can still be
frustrating occasionally to capture very thin subjects close up by you can
get there by fooling the camera. A trick I use is to shove the lends right
up against the subject (too close), so that it 'realizes' that it is looking
at something really close-up, then back off whilst the autofocus is seeking
the focus. This usually results in it finding the subject rather than the
background !
This is wonderful topic and I say again - please keep the comments flowing !
J.
PS. For those looking for that last stocking filler (Mark - you wife hinted
to me that she'd love a digital camera that she would let you use
occasionally) I looked at prices on the web last night and the Coolpix 995
can be had for around $420.
Dr John T Lonsdale
407 Edgewood Drive,
Exton, Pennsylvania 19341, USA
Phone 610 594 9232
Fax 801 327 1266
Visit "Edgewood" - The Lonsdale Garden at http//www.johnlonsdale.net
Zone 6b
From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 09:13:47 2002
Message-Id:
From: Jennifer Hildebrand
Subject: 2 books - Clivias and Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs
Date: Wed, 18 Dec 2002 07:51:41 -0800 (PST)
Hi everyone,
I'm helping Cathy Craig put together the group order for anyone interested in obtaining either
The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs by John Manning, Peter Goldblatt, and Dee Snijman or Clivias by Harold Koopowitz.
Several of you have already sent Cathy your order, but this is a last chance for anyone who hasn't yet placed an order.
The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs
Synopsis: The Cape Region, at the southern tip of Africa, is easily among the richest centers for bulbous plants and probably the most famous. Nearly 1200 species of bulbous plants find their home there and almost three-quarters ofthemoccur nowhere else. This first complete account of all the bulbous plants of the Cape Floral Region is an essential aid to the identification of all species presently in cultivation as well as the many others that are potentially valuable horticultural subjects. The book is richly illustrated with high-quality color photographs of more than half the species of Cape bulbs, many of which have never before been illustrated. 0-88192-547-0, 486 pp, 611 color photos, 2 color maps, 2 tables, 8 1/2 x 11", hardcover
In the words of one of our leading experts on cape bulbs: "Everyone whogrows Cape Bulbs seriously will want to have it. "We are offering it to anyone interested at 15% OFF with any profit realized going to the Pacific Bulb Society for member benefits. This will help to pay for our SPRING MEETING, SLIDE PRESENTATION, AND GARDEN TOUR in Seattlethis coming May of 2003 (to which anyone interested is also invited). Cost with discount, plus shipping, packing materials, tax is $60. Books will all be shipped to you by media mail. You may request Priority Mail shipping at extra cost if you like.
Clivias
Synopsis: "Clivias" 384 pages, 118 color photos, 2 keys: Clivias are classed amongthe most desirable of all connoisseur plants, offering not only spectacular flowers but also interesting variations in both leaf variegation and plant form. Despite their reputation as specialist plants, however, clivias are surprisingly easy to grow and tolerant of abuse. Koopowitz has written a delightful book, the first to detail the members of the genus Clivia.
Beginning with the story of their discovery, he moves on to issues of cultivation, hybridization, and propagation. The bulk of the book is a profusely illustrated examination of the diversity of clivia variation, from the familiar orange and red flowers to the famous yellow forms and the pastel forms that are creating so much excitement today.
Cost is $34.95, any profits realized to go to PBS for our member benefits. I anticipate shipping to be not more than $6 to the furthest US zone (back east) by Priority Mail.
Anyone who wants to take advantage of this group order should email me ASAP
PRIVATELY (theotherjen8@yahoo.com) so that Cathy can get the order in and get the books to you in time for them to make wonderful Christmas gifts!
Happy holidays,
Jennifer
From ???@??? Wed Dec 18 09:13:47 2002
Message-Id:
From: John Lonsdale