Kentucky State Prison System has banned Satanic ceremonies within prison. It's something I have recently come across. This happened back in the early 2000's. I can't find anything about this being over with. I think its pretty fucked that they have gotten away with it because they feel that religion threatens their security.

If you know any updates on the current status of this let me know or just let say what you think about this.

#1: if the people had not been stupid enough to either: A: Do what they did, or, B: Get caught for doing what they did, this wouldn't be an issue. However, they did do it and they did caught for it. That being the case they have to deal with the consequences. Being that they are Wards of the State, they are subject to all the sanctions put upon them.

Not that I agree with this decision, but if these people truly want to perform a ritual they can and will. If you TRULY want to do something, nothing can stop you except for yourself. Well, that and the laws* that govern our world.

*Laws as in the laws of physics etc. Not the laws that govern the individual person's day-to-day.

I look at it this way, they fucked up and are now completely governed by the laws of the systems they have gotten themselves in to. The state obviously decided that Satanism wasn't a need. Then again, how many Satanist do you know that go out in public and perform rituals, etc.? Does the ban in prison really change the fact that they are Satanist, if they really are?

Would I like a ban such as this in my life? Nope, but I also have that freedom. They lost theirs.

Does these type of things really bother you Soul? What would you do to change the situation?

I find it disturbing that Satanism seems to be singled out in the ban. That being said, knowing that what you believe and do is misunderstood and feared, publicly flaunting this seems a bit like shitting in your bed.

Furthermore, I find that more often than not the most powerful sorcery comes from individual secrecy by a Satanist who knows that their powers to shape and direct can't be hindered. Group rituals can never produce anything useful when carried out in a situation of whispers and furtive glances.

_________________________
“The human race is unimportant. It is the self that must not be betrayed."

#1 This is Kentucky we're talking about here. Smack-dab in the Bible Belt. Is this ban really all that surprising?

#2 I don't care to have Satanism associated with anyone stupid enough to have been convicted of a crime. A smart Satanist would have either A) been smart about what he/she did and not gotten caught, or B) not committed a crime that warranted jail time in the first place.

Inmates insisting on their rights to practice rituals only end up sounding like a bunch of whiny pussies. As far as I'm concerned, when you're in jail, you HAVE no rights, especially ones as frivolous as practicing your religion. Keep that shit to yourself!

There are circumstances where an individual might end up in prison who doesn’t deserve to be there. I personally knew someone who went to jail for six months because they hit someone in self defense and caused some injury to that person. The person that was hit was the son of a state trooper, while the guy defending himself was just an average guy who couldn’t afford a decent lawyer. In at least that case, stupidity is not so much the reason the person was incarcerated as much as a “bum rap” was.

Satanism is classified as a valid religion. The armed forces has recognized it as such, which is a branch of the government (US).

If it is a valid religion then banning it in prisons is in my opinion a violation of constitutional law. Prisoners do not lose their constitutional rights while incarcerated, at least that’s what I have heard from relatives of corrections officers whom I work with. They still have the right to sue, and are protected (kind of) by the system.

I have no qualms against Satanism being outlawed in prison, if all other religious practices are outlawed as well.

At least we don’t blow buildings up, yet I’m almost certain that Muslims who do, are still allowed to have worship services while incarcerated even though they evidently pose a much greater risk in the world then we do.

Further more, if we are alright and nonchalant when people we do not care for are banned from practicing Satanism where other religions are accepted and allowed, then we have no cause to complain if our religion is banned in the general community at some point, and we our selves are forbidden from practicing it. I would go so far as to say in this case, that if we have such a “fuck them” attitude, then we ourselves can go “fuck ourselves,” because we don’t deserve our “Right” to free thought either, since many who fought for individual freedom in the past did not do so for Satanism, but for the rights of every individual to practice what ever religion or belief system that they wished. Therefore if we do not care about the rights of others, then we can’t expect that others should care about our beliefs and freedoms if and when those liberties are threatened.

_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

I've been asked to drop back in and comment on this thread because (a) I was the Church of Satan's Priest in Louisville 1970-72 and (b) I've been extensively involved in subsequent years with government religious toleration issues.

In 1970-72 I founded and headed the Church's Nineveh Grotto, based in Louisville but with a statewide membership. Despite Kentucky's image as a "Bible Belt" state, we were always treated courteously and tolerantly by both government and populace. I was regularly invited to speak and panel-participate at local high schools, universities, and the Louisville Baptist Seminary, as well as in the public media. And of course Nineveh even helped to make a local Satanism horror movie, which Louisville thought was quite a bit of fun [even if the flick itself was a honker].

The State of Kentucky officially recognized Satanism as a religion in a formal court hearing granting me a license to solemnize marriages in the state. I was of course required to produce documentary evidence of my affiliation and Priestly office, which I did. It was rather an entertaining court hearing!

Important to this were those two requirements: that there be a formal religious institution and that there be a formal clergy thereof. Generally state and federal governments want to see this, to provide some sort of standard as to whether a claimed religion is serious and substantial. Otherwise all sorts of people could argue all sorts of legal waivers on the grounds that "it's their religion", as indeed many have tried to do, with causes from marijuana to Scientology (which was not originally a "church" until it realized there were benefits to claiming such).

I am guessing that the Kentucky prison policy reflects this: that if anyone can claim any religion ad hoc just to cause inconvenience and tension, it's an abuse of the First Amendment. If a group of formally-affiliated inmates had asked for private accommodation, I rather think it would have been provided.

Here is the official Defense Department policy concerning religious toleration in the U.S. Armed Forces. Note that it is not absolute, but that there is reason behind the restrictions. For instance if Sikhs in the Army were permitted to grow beards, they couldn't wear gas masks, and so forth. Is mainstream Protestant/Catholic/Judaic religion institutionalized? Sure. Is that arguably unConstitutional under Separation of Church & State? Sure. Going to hold your breath until the Courts enforce this? Take a very deep & long breath.

I should perhaps note that the question of whether Atheism is a religion in the First Amendment sense is still up for grabs. I think it's generally accepted that individuals have the right to not have a religion, but that's not the same thing as claiming that this "absence of belief" enjoys or should enjoy the same exemptions and protections that a belief in a supernatural presence does. The distinction being that if one's conscience, morality, behavior, etc. are to some extent responsible to a higher entity, then the state should not interfere with that. [And of course this tension has a long history over the centuries.]

So this comes round again to whether Satanism is a religion [as a theism] or a materialist philosophy [as an Atheism]. We've discussed that here before, and I see no need to do so again here. I'm merely pointing out that in contexts like this current Kentucky one, if the individuals affirm that they believe in the existence and influence of Satan, their argument for First Amendment toleration will probably resonate more than if they were to say that "we're Satanists, we want to do the rituals in the Satanic Bible, but we don't really believe in Satan".

According to religionfacts.com, “scholars and Buddhists alike tend to describe Buddhism as atheistic in the sense that it denies an eternal creator God, while recognizing its theistic and devotional elements”. Yet Buddhism is commonly understood as a religion. It seems to me, then, that theism isn’t a necessary component of religion.

As you said in a recent post, appreciation and emulation of what Satan stands for transcends belief in him as a literal being. The view of Satan as a revered example of rebelling against the status quo and forging one’s own path in life is, in my opinion, what Satanism – theistic or atheistic – is all about.

The thing here is, with religions, they feel they HAVE to perform whatever ritual be it baptism, eating Saltines, what have you for their eternal stupid life, then let the baby have his bottle. If a 'satanist' feels he needs to do some ritual with others to get something extra, then he is weak or uneducated, and in need of crutches. Fuck 'em.

There are circumstances where an individual might end up in prison who doesn't deserve to be there. I personally knew someone who went to jail for six months because they hit someone in self defense and caused some injury to that person. The person that was hit was the son of a state trooper, while the guy defending himself was just an average guy who couldn't afford a decent lawyer. In at least that case, stupidity is not so much the reason the person was incarcerated as much as a “bum rap” was.

That's not always the case though. Not every criminal is getting a "bum rap" and I don't know about you, but I don't really want every criminal claiming "the devil made me do it because I worship him...", either. There's enough bad things strewn about when it comes to Satanism with the media, I don't see the need to help the Christians along in their gossip to add numerous criminals to Satanism.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

Satanism is classified as a valid religion. The armed forces has recognized it as such, which is a branch of the government (US).

If it is a valid religion then banning it in prisons is in my opinion a violation of constitutional law. Prisoners do not lose their constitutional rights while incarcerated, at least that’s what I have heard from relatives of corrections officers whom I work with. They still have the right to sue, and are protected (kind of) by the system.

I have no qualms against Satanism being outlawed in prison, if all other religious practices are outlawed as well.

And you and I know that's a huge PIPE DREAM. The Christians would have a conniption fit if they couldn't "turn someone else's life around through Christianity and finding God."

I'm also curious, does anyone know if this jail is privately owned but paid by the state? If it's privately owned, there's not a damned thing anyone can do about what they will and won't allow anyway.

As for Constitutional Rights, I don't believe that a criminal thinks about anyone else's Constitutional Rights when they commit their crimes. How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

At least we don’t blow buildings up, yet I’m almost certain that Muslims who do, are still allowed to have worship services while incarcerated even though they evidently pose a much greater risk in the world then we do.

No, instead there are kids out there claiming to be Satanists while shooting up their entire school. The lesson is that not all Satanists shoot up people and not all Muslims blow up buildings.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

Further more, if we are alright and nonchalant when people we do not care for are banned from practicing Satanism where other religions are accepted and allowed, then we have no cause to complain if our religion is banned in the general community at some point, and we our selves are forbidden from practicing it. I would go so far as to say in this case, that if we have such a “fuck them” attitude, then we ourselves can go “fuck ourselves,” because we don’t deserve our “Right” to free thought either, since many who fought for individual freedom in the past did not do so for Satanism, but for the rights of every individual to practice what ever religion or belief system that they wished. Therefore if we do not care about the rights of others, then we can’t expect that others should care about our beliefs and freedoms if and when those liberties are threatened.

My question is, do you need a separate place (meaning outside of your own home) to worship while being a Satanist? They didn't ban Satanic materials like books, or state that they couldn't be Satanists. According to everything I read, they just aren't going to be giving them a place to hold weekly services (someone correct me if I am wrong). They weren't allowing them any materials for these services anyway. Interesting, because I, as a Satanist, don't attend weekly service of any kind. I understand a theistic Satanist might want a service, but with only 2 in attendance?

And after all that, are you going to write a letter to that prison and try to get those services reinstated or are you going to let it slide? Do you think the inmates will join in to make sure they keep their services going? Just curious. Ya know, if it really means something to them, they can sue, per your own words. Right?

Now, if they had banned them from being Satanist all together, that would be a whole other ball game....

Tid bit for thought.....How can you force someone into not being a Satanist?

"As for Constitutional Rights, I don't believe that a criminal thinks about anyone else's Constitutional Rights when they commit their crimes. How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't."

As a libertarian, I just said "WHOA".

There are hundreds of thousands of arrests annually for minor possession and use of marijuana.Prostitution is illegal nearly everywhere in the US. Gambling is illegal if the "House" is making money.

These might be considered crimes, but if two parties freely associate for mutual benefit, should our law enforcement really be wasting its time stopping them, when there are surely more dangerous criminals with whom they should be occupied?

Some might argue that Arizona cops are chasing down Latinos with cracked windshields and traffic violations in search of those Dam Illegals, who committed the crime of leaving their hell-hole countries in search of work. (Not to minimize the other issues)

These are our tax dollars at work, making sure teenagers can't get weed. God forbid they sit on their couch all night and eat too much.

"As for Constitutional Rights, I don't believe that a criminal thinks about anyone else's Constitutional Rights when they commit their crimes. How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't."

As a libertarian, I just said "WHOA".

There are hundreds of thousands of arrests annually for minor possession and use of marijuana.Prostitution is illegal nearly everywhere in the US. Gambling is illegal if the "House" is making money.

Around here, unless you're busted with a ton of drugs, you get jail, probation and/or a fine, not prison. Prostitution generally doesn't warrant prison either. If you're in prison for drugs, chances are you've probably been linked to something more than drugs, like a murder or having been part of a rape crime, or as I stated above, a TON of drugs. Same with the prostitutes that have ended up in prison.

Someone gambling doesn't warrant prison time, either.

Bear in mind, the article was discussing a prison, not jail. There is a difference in the crimes and whether one ends up in jail or prison (where these inmates currently are). I should have worded my question a bit better. Can you think of a crime that would land you in PRISON (not jail) that doesn't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind?

According to religionfacts.com, “scholars and Buddhists alike tend to describe Buddhism as atheistic in the sense that it denies an eternal creator God, while recognizing its theistic and devotional elements”. Yet Buddhism is commonly understood as a religion. It seems to me, then, that theism isn’t a necessary component of religion.

As you said in a recent post, appreciation and emulation of what Satan stands for transcends belief in him as a literal being. The view of Satan as a revered example of rebelling against the status quo and forging one’s own path in life is, in my opinion, what Satanism – theistic or atheistic – is all about.

The very first thing that was brought up when I attended classes on the science of religion at the university was the problem of defining religion. We went through a lot of the most common definitions made by different theologists, philosophers and so forth. Not a single one could put into words an exact criteria for what we collectively regard as religion without either excluding a lot of what is generally considered religions or including many movements that we really do no consider to be religious. So the cause of confusion has its ground in that there is no generally acceptet definition on what a religion is.

Furthermore the word and study of religion has its basis in the study of Christianity. The word was used exclusively for the Christian faith and only later was it applied to other movements which also poses a problem that western people try to define non-western, non-christian religion with a word that originally was used exclusively for the western mind and Christianity.

It's been said before; most true Satanists (yes, I used the elitist qualifier "tr00" here...) wouldn't have a reason to end up in jail, especially in the US. However, as a pure matter of civil rights, Satanism should not be banned in prisons if other religions are given free exercise.

Texas prison chaplain Donald Kaspar said, "We've looked at the satanic bible and are convinced that what it advocates would put our prisons at risk. One of their tenets is revenge: if somebody hurts you, hurt them back."

Of course... how should we decide if Satanism should be permitted? Ask a christian!

I wonder how safe they feel with their prisoners adhering to THIS book:

Quote:

'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: " 'With a great throng of people I will cast my net over you, and they will haul you up in my net.

I will throw you on the land and hurl you on the open field. I will let all the birds of the air settle on you and all the beasts of the earth gorge themselves on you.

I will spread your flesh on the mountains and fill the valleys with your remains.

I will drench the land with your flowing blood all the way to the mountains, and the ravines will be filled with your flesh.

-Ezekiel 32

And I haven't even gotten to the genocide and child rape yet. But of course, this is a subject all of you are familiar with.

In all honesty, I don't see this ruling lasting very long. Someone's going to get the ACLU or some first amendment group on their asses and after some legal haggling they'll meekly retract the prohibition and say, "Oops, sorry; hope you weren't offended."

Rev. Kaspar surely understands that revenge is a perfectly natural reaction to perceived wrongs. I suspect that if someone murdered his family, he would seek revenge in some form.

Actions have consequences. Whether motivated by revenge or merely a sense of fairness, reasonable people in civilized societies understand that without unpleasant consequences for inappropriate actions, anarchy results. The point of the Satanic Bible, I think, is that people should stand up for themselves instead of “turning the other cheek”. Furthermore, above all else TSB teaches that the greatest “sin” is stupidity. Is it really smart to get revenge by stabbing a fellow prisoner and adding time to your sentence?

As he does with his own Bible, Kaspar cherry picks verses to support his position and demonize the opposing side. As Zebu pointed out, his position as chaplain presents a conflict of interest with regard to Satanism. His opinion should be considered with this in mind…but of course it won’t. After all, he’s preaching to the choir.

That's not always the case though. Not every criminal is getting a "bum rap" and I don't know about you, but I don't really want every criminal claiming "the devil made me do it because I worship him...", either.

That is an excellent point, and I have considered that myself. However, the above would not be referring to what most of us consider Satanism, but “Devil Worship.”On the other hand I also realize that most people who would attempt to give Satanism a bad name would have no desire to differentiate between the two for the sake of accuracy.

Quote:

And you and I know that's a huge PIPE DREAM. The Christians would have a conniption fit if they couldn't "turn someone else's life around through Christianity and finding God."

Absolutely. But perhaps we are also to blame for making it too easy for them by not fighting them in their efforts. Some hard core Atheistic movements have put at least a bit of a dent into the Christian propaganda efforts. For example, Atheists deserve much of the credit for making it much more difficult to indoctrinate children in schools through prayer and such. There are many well spoken Atheists out there who represent themselves in a serious manner, while many Satanists when given the chance to air their views in front of the public tend to come across as a bunch of nut cases, or at the very least as cute gothic eccentrics.

Quote:

How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't.

Willie Nelson for one. He was criminalized by the IRS as many people often are because of innocent accounting errors. It’s true that he didn’t serve jail time, but I believe that’s only because of his fame. People who grow Canabis for personal use who get busted. Yes, they are “criminals,” but are not violating someone else’s rights. Some would argue that they are actually standing up for their own rights by deciding for themselves what they are going to put into their own bodies.Larry Flint of “Penthouse” magazine fame, was jailed several times, and often harassed by the legal system. Again, he didn’t violate anyone’s “rights,” but instead stood up against the system which was backed by Xtian zealots. Interestingly enough he was dragged into court many times, while the person who shot him was never caught.Then let's not forget the innocent parents who were jailed in the 80's during the "Satanic" panic.

Quote:

Around here, unless you're busted with a ton of drugs, you get jail, probation and/or a fine, not prison. Prostitution generally doesn't warrant prison either. If you're in prison for drugs, chances are you've probably been linked to something more than drugs, like a murder or having been part of a rape crime, or as I stated above, a TON of drugs. Same with the prostitutes that have ended up in prison.

Point taken, but I wouldn’t bet on it.

Quote:

No, instead there are kids out there claiming to be Satanists while shooting up their entire school. The lesson is that not all Satanists shoot up people and not all Muslims blow up buildings

True again. However, there is a difference between claiming to be a Satanist, and being one. Speaking just for myself, I would feel much safer being on a plane with 300 hard core Satanists, then 300 hard core Muslims. The reason for this is that “True” Satanists would be much more difficult to brain wash into doing something stupid, then people who believe the absolute non sense that is in the Koran.

Quote:

My question is, do you need a separate place (meaning outside of your own home) to worship while being a Satanist?

No, and neither do xtians, Muslims, Buddhists or anyone else, except for the fact that human beings are social creatures and they enjoy playing dress up and ceremonial things among like minded individuals.

Quote:

And after all that, are you going to write a letter to that prison and try to get those services reinstated or are you going to let it slide?

A very valid point. Most discussions tend to end up with the put up or shut up argument. This also goes for people who state that they would love to exterminate all child molesters, yet even though one can find them very easily by searching the internet for offenders, tend to simply prefer to act like a Peacock on a soap box without ever taking any action. Yet rarely if ever are they asked if they are willing to actually do something about it other then verbally make a spectacle of themselves.

I am, like most, an arm chair protester. I know what and who I am and although I do not make excuses or pride myself on it, I am still ahead of the game by not fooling myself into believing that I am something better as many Satanists, as well as non Satanists tend to do. Furthermore, I realize that since I don’t often take action in regards to what I believe in, I would not be shocked, surprised or disappointed when my “rights,” or “privileges,” are taken away, and no one is there to help me.

Edited by Asmedious (05/17/1004:25 PM)

_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

That's not always the case though. Not every criminal is getting a "bum rap" and I don't know about you, but I don't really want every criminal claiming "the devil made me do it because I worship him...", either.

That is an excellent point, and I have considered that myself. However, the above would not be referring to what most of us consider Satanism, but "Devil Worship."On the other hand I also realize that most people who would attempt to give Satanism a bad name would have no desire to differentiate between the two for the sake of accuracy.

It's a very tight rope we walk when we publicly claim Satanism and step in to the "spot light". Those that can walk that rope well are truly far and in between, but then again, those are the Satanists that deserve and earn respect. That's for sure.

I wish there was a way to cut the ties that the media draws on those that like to "play" Satanist, but many times it's not possible. The media like feeding BS as much as religions do and fear is a great driving force for their numbers.

Quote:

And you and I know that's a huge PIPE DREAM. The Christians would have a conniption fit if they couldn't "turn someone else's life around through Christianity and finding God."

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

Absolutely. But perhaps we are also to blame for making it too easy for them by not fighting them in their efforts. Some hard core Atheistic movements have put at least a bit of a dent into the Christian propaganda efforts. For example, Atheists deserve much of the credit for making it much more difficult to indoctrinate children in schools through prayer and such. There are many well spoken Atheists out there who represent themselves in a serious manner, while many Satanists when given the chance to air their views in front of the public tend to come across as a bunch of nut cases, or at the very least as cute gothic eccentrics.

Understood and agreed. The group that is here, on this forum, for the most part, are well spoken and read. It seems more times than not, it's the angry, goth eccentric that gets the lime light. Perhaps that will change, but perhaps not.

Quote:

How many crimes don't involve violating someone else's rights of any kind? Can you honestly think of any? Right off the top of my head, I can't.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

Willie Nelson for one. He was criminalized by the IRS as many people often are because of innocent accounting errors. It's true that he didn't serve jail time, but I believe that's only because of his fame. People who grow Canabis for personal use who get busted. Yes, they are "criminals," but are not violating someone else's rights. Some would argue that they are actually standing up for their own rights by deciding for themselves what they are going to put into their own bodies.Larry Flint of "Penthouse" magazine fame, was jailed several times, and often harassed by the legal system. Again, he didn't violate anyone's "rights," but instead stood up against the system which was backed by Xtian zealots. Interestingly enough he was dragged into court many times, while the person who shot him was never caught.Then let's not forget the innocent parents who were jailed in the 80's during the "Satanic" panic.

I don't believe the parents went to prison (though I could be wrong). And again, Willy and Larry didn't end up in prison.

Quote:

Around here, unless you're busted with a ton of drugs, you get jail, probation and/or a fine, not prison. Prostitution generally doesn't warrant prison either. If you're in prison for drugs, chances are you've probably been linked to something more than drugs, like a murder or having been part of a rape crime, or as I stated above, a TON of drugs. Same with the prostitutes that have ended up in prison.

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

Point taken, but I wouldn't bet on it.

I can't tell you how many times we helped shut down the local drug houses (because of the shit they were doing with no reguard for those of us that lived there) in the city that we lived in about 5 years ago. There was a major prison there and when a lot of the criminals got released they usually stuck around. After one major bust, we were told that the drug trail lead to busts in MI, IN, IL, KY, FL and CA. Several of the people that were busted that day had stolen weapons and more than 1 were linked to a couple of murder cases that could finally be prosecuted. There were 4 hookers that got picked up locally that were doing the drug running and were also linked to several other crimes (theft, B&E with a weapon, etc.). This kind of thing happened more than once from the local drug raids. The ONLY reason we got involved was because these ass holes were doing deals in front of the many children that use to play on our street and because they even went so far as to have fights (jumping on cars, pointing weapons at each other) while we had to hide in our damn houses for fear they were going to kill someone innocent. If they had just partied and not been complete idiots we would have readily left them alone. Hell, we partied and NEVER carried on like that, back then. So yeah, I would bet on it.

Quote:

No, instead there are kids out there claiming to be Satanists while shooting up their entire school. The lesson is that not all Satanists shoot up people and not all Muslims blow up buildings

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

True again. However, there is a difference between claiming to be a Satanist, and being one. Speaking just for myself, I would feel much safer being on a plane with 300 hard core Satanists, then 300 hard core Muslims. The reason for this is that "True" Satanists would be much more difficult to brain wash into doing something stupid, then people who believe the absolute non sense that is in the Koran.

You and I both would feel safer. However, we've been fortunate enough to know and are Satanists. We know the difference.

Quote:

My question is, do you need a separate place (meaning outside of your own home) to worship while being a Satanist?

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

No, and neither do xtians, Muslims, Buddhists or anyone else, except for the fact that human beings are social creatures and they enjoy playing dress up and ceremonial things among like minded individuals.

True enough.

Quote:

And after all that, are you going to write a letter to that prison and try to get those services reinstated or are you going to let it slide?

Originally Posted By: Asmedious

A very valid point. Most discussions tend to end up with the put up or shut up argument. This also goes for people who state that they would love to exterminate all child molesters, yet even though one can find them very easily by searching the internet for offenders, tend to simply prefer to act like a Peacock on a soap box without ever taking any action. Yet rarely if ever are they asked if they are willing to actually do something about it other then verbally make a spectacle of themselves.

I am, like most, an arm chair protester. I know what and who I am and although I do not make excuses or pride myself on it, I am still ahead of the game by not fooling myself into believing that I am something better as many Satanists, as well as non Satanists tend to do. Furthermore, I realize that since I don't often take action in regards to what I believe in, I would not be shocked, surprised or disappointed when my "rights," or "privileges," are taken away, and no one is there to help me.

Talking about fighting for the rights for a prisoner to "devil worship" and exterminating child molesters are two completely different actions. One is within a bit more feasible playing field, while the latter will land you in jail, even if you thought you were doing society some real good. Playing peacock is much safer.

You might be surprised though, if something were to happen that your rights were violated. You don't do things to get your butt caught up in the legal system. There is a difference & I do know of a few people that would fight for YOUR right to practice as you would desire simply because of that fact.

We know that the most efficient Satanists are those who can also manage to work under the radar... the Sentinels, Satanic Ronins.

I'm not going to stop just because someone decided i can't play with my alter anymore! I'll create one out of paper, dirt and pen'caps if needed. It's about intent focus, Will and Refinement... a mundane loss is just a that, only mundane.

Edited by Valor (05/21/1004:41 AM)

_________________________
~there are none so blind as those who will not listen~