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I'll say this much though - one thing that worries the hell out of me is the Rams and drafting offensive linemen in the first.. The last time one worked out was Orlando pace....

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Sooo we can't write off a guy to produce that has no history of production but yet we can write off a guy's ability to be healthy next season, despite missing only one game last season? that sounds like flawed logic - especially since Fisher is easy on his vets and work load players..

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That would be a great argument to make...to the person who said this. I didn't so it doesn't apply to me. Not trying to be mean, I just didn't ever make that argument.

IMO, the drop off would be like falling off a cliff. Why? Because Robinson/Matthews wouldn't be limited to guard like most of the guys that would be available in round two. They are potential hard to find LTs (This season if needed or in the future). And this team has one that has suffered serious injuries for the past 3 seasons and isn't getting any younger. And they might not get another chance in the future to find a legit LT prospect if/when one is needed in the future. One could look no further than the Cardinals in our own division who had been looking to fill that spot for years.

On the other hand, chances are pretty good that Watkins is not going to produce much better, if at all, than some of the other WRs that can be had in this deep draft class as he's not the rare physical freak matchup problem of most of the better WRs in the NFL today. The main problem is that many only know about the big name guys in the first round.

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This sounds great and like the more responsible approach, but I still want Watkins. The sexy pick appeals-- and I'm young and still think with my...

On the other hand, chances are pretty good that Watkins is not going to produce much better, if at all, than some of the other WRs that can be had in this deep draft class as he's not the rare physical freak matchup problem of most of the better WRs in the NFL today. The main problem is that many only know about the big name guys in the first round.

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You lost me there, Memphis. Watkins isn't Calvin Johnson(who is, though) but he's a match-up problem due to his athleticism. His official 40 time may not reflect it but that guy is scary fast. Like Torrey Smith, his 40 time doesn't adequately represent his football speed. And that's a match-up problem. When you add in that unlike most deep threats, he's actually a natural hands catcher and a physical runner after the catch. He can be quite dangerous.

When you look at Torrey Smith's ability to run by defenders and Pierre Garcon's ability to create after the catch, you see both those elements in Watkins's game. He can be one heck of a scary match-up in the NFL if utilized right and if he's willing to work at it. Don't sleep on this kid. He's plenty talented. AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald tier as a prospect? No. But he's on that tier below.

You lost me there, Memphis. Watkins isn't Calvin Johnson(who is, though) but he's a match-up problem due to his athleticism. His official 40 time may not reflect it but that guy is scary fast. Like Torrey Smith, his 40 time doesn't adequately represent his football speed. And that's a match-up problem. When you add in that unlike most deep threats, he's actually a natural hands catcher and a physical runner after the catch. He can be quite dangerous.

When you look at Torrey Smith's ability to run by defenders and Pierre Garcon's ability to create after the catch, you see both those elements in Watkins's game. He can be one heck of a scary match-up in the NFL if utilized right and if he's willing to work at it. Don't sleep on this kid. He's plenty talented. AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald tier as a prospect? No. But he's on that tier below.

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I was thinkin more of Josh Gordon with the way he was turning short catches into huge gains

Height I'd agree with - Frame and build i'll disagree with. Man is big... but more important, the skill set is very identical

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Gordon is 6'3" 225, Watkins is 6'1" 210. It's just not a comparison. Watkins is well built for his size but Gordon is big and very strong.

It's like when a certain poster(not you) tried to argue that Watkins's hands are on par with Fitzgerald's. I think people are exaggerating a bit with the kid. I like him but he doesn't have Fitzgerald's hands or Gordon's build and strength.

Now, if you were to say he has Pierre Garcon's build, strength and YAC skills? I'd agree. And Garcon is one of the best in the game at yards after catch. He was #8 in average YAC and #4 in broken tackles(among WRs with 50+ targets) in 2013.

Interestingly enough, Givens was actually #2 in the NFL in average YAC in 2013. Don't ask me how.
(my guess would be all those 3 yard drag routes against man coverage that he caught and picked up 15-20 yards on...Watkins and Tavon would both kill on those type of routes as well)

Gordon is 6'3" 225, Watkins is 6'1" 210. It's just not a comparison. Watkins is well built for his size but Gordon is big and very strong.

It's like when a certain poster(not you) tried to argue that Watkins's hands are on par with Fitzgerald's. I think people are exaggerating a bit with the kid. I like him but he doesn't have Fitzgerald's hands or Gordon's build and strength.

Now, if you were to say he has Pierre Garcon's build, strength and YAC skills? I'd agree. And Garcon is one of the best in the game at yards after catch. He was #8 in average YAC and #4 in broken tackles(among WRs with 50+ targets) in 2013.

Interestingly enough, Givens was actually #2 in the NFL in average YAC in 2013. Don't ask me how.
(my guess would be all those 3 yard drag routes against man coverage that he caught and picked up 15-20 yards on...Watkins and Tavon would both kill on those type of routes as well)

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Yea I can see the Garcon comparison.. Wow @ fitzgerald lol...I wouldn't go that far.. I mean, don't you have to have atleast one video dubbed "The Catch" to even qualify for such praise?

Also, Gordon was timed a 4.52, Watkins was timed a 4.43... so there is some trade off, but still a nice build. Can break tackles and go over the top.

You lost me there, Memphis. Watkins isn't Calvin Johnson(who is, though) but he's a match-up problem due to his athleticism. His official 40 time may not reflect it but that guy is scary fast. Like Torrey Smith, his 40 time doesn't adequately represent his football speed. And that's a match-up problem. When you add in that unlike most deep threats, he's actually a natural hands catcher and a physical runner after the catch. He can be quite dangerous.

When you look at Torrey Smith's ability to run by defenders and Pierre Garcon's ability to create after the catch, you see both those elements in Watkins's game. He can be one heck of a scary match-up in the NFL if utilized right and if he's willing to work at it. Don't sleep on this kid. He's plenty talented. AJ Green/Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald tier as a prospect? No. But he's on that tier below.

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Not sure how. I'm not saying he couldn't be a match-up problem. Tavon Austin could be a match-up problem if utilized right and he's willing to work at it. I'm saying that he's not a rare physical freak type of matchup problem ala the AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Josh Gordon, Demaryius Thomas, etc.. Those guys are matchup problems period.

BTW, Thomas looks to have a clone in this draft, named Donte Moncrief, that few seemed to have noticed and/or even mentioned.

Not sure how. I'm not saying he couldn't be a match-up problem. Tavon Austin could be a match-up problem if utilized right and he's willing to work at it. I'm saying that he's not a rare physical freak type of matchup problem ala the AJ Green, Calvin Johnson, Julio Jones, Larry Fitzgerald, Josh Gordon, Demaryius Thomas, etc.. Those guys are matchup problems period.

BTW, Thomas looks to have a clone in this draft, named Donte Moncrief, that few seemed to have noticed and/or even mentioned.

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I've noticed Moncrief. I think he needs to land in the right scheme to be effective but I've also used that comparison for him.

I disagree with you though, I do think he has the athletic ability to be a match-up problem period.

so because I point out the factors around Ty Hilton like Reggie Wayne tearing his acl, you respond with this?

Well actually they've invested a lot more in the o-line when you think of jason brown, jacob bell, jake long, jason smith, scott wells....

I've yet to see a fat contract go to a receiver since drew bennett... the only thing we've done recently is add an all around playmaker in tavon (which was needed).

But if your argument is about spending money at the receiver position, you're just flat out wrong... not a single guy is out of their rookie contract and only 1 is a first round pick

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I forgot what we were arguing about now. Sorry.

I just like to argue with you in general because you're so dead set on Watkins. To your point on TA being an "all around playmaker" as opposed to a WR - I don't see the difference. It's not like he's Hester that can't catch or run a route. I think he just had rookie issues. We need another season from him before we know what we have. Or two. Givens is only on this third season.

Truth be told I think the issue is more about the QB position than the WR position. Guys that leave the Rams play well else where. Look a Avery. Look at Gibson in Miami, last season, before he got hurt. He was having a good year. Played well. I saw a few games as my brother is a Miami fan.

Oh and my draft capital, I meant the value of the pick - not the salary cap numbers. And I agree with you on Jason Smith - that pick set our franchise back, big time. Of course this is an argument to take a OT...

I just like to argue with you in general because you're so dead set on Watkins.

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for someone who is who dead set on arguing with me you truly don't understand my argument

as i have said, many times - I don't care who they upgrade the starting outside wide receiver position.. i don't care if its Watkins or Evans; I don't believe what we have now will produce at the level we need it.

People can chalk it up to Clemens and the run heavy offense all they want - fact remains Chris Givens has been incredibly unproductive regardless - go back to his last 12 games with bradford or last 2013 season.

Only Givens and Hakeem Nicks (whom was cut by the giants) were the starting "#1" receivers who went without scoring a touchdown in the nfl........ 104 other receivers in the NFL managed to get at least one...

I would love Watkins at #2 - sure, absolutely... if we can't get him, oh well..but I feel that what we have right now out wide will not suffice; especially if we want to fight for the division crown..

you tell me givens shouldn't be the #1, and then i ask who is? Pettis - who's snaps extremely decreased from the get go? Or quick, who only got 35% of the snaps? (and do i really need to go into him?)... how about stedman - after a couple games,are you really ready to put your whole future faith in him at wide out?

And most importantly - do you believe any said receivers would be better than Watkins/Evans/another high receiver we would get from this draft...let alone have a bigger impact

you tell me givens shouldn't be the #1, and then i ask who is? Pettis - who's snaps extremely decreased from the get go? Or quick, who only got 35% of the snaps? (and do i really need to go into him?)... how about stedman - after a couple games,are you really ready to put your whole future faith in him at wide out?

And most importantly - do you believe any said receivers would be better than Watkins/Evans/another high receiver we would get from this draft...let alone have a bigger impact

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Tavon Austin?

As far as the bigger impact...if we're speaking about 2014, yea, I think it's very possible we have a WR or TE on this roster that would have a greater impact than Watkins/Evans would as a rookie. Rookie WRs are typically more miss than hit.

Personally, I'd rather us use the depth of this class to our advantage and grab a guy like Jordan Matthews in the second round over Watkins in the top 5.

As far as the bigger impact...if we're speaking about 2014, yea, I think it's very possible we have a WR or TE on this roster that would have a greater impact than Watkins/Evans would as a rookie. Rookie WRs are typically more miss than hit.

Personally, I'd rather us use the depth of this class to our advantage and grab a guy like Jordan Matthews in the second round over Watkins in the top 5.

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Tavon is not going to fit that role - for whatever reason, schotty refuses to use him as such.

I'm speaking bigger impact now - and down the line, in 4 or 5 years...

for someone who is who dead set on arguing with me you truly don't understand my argument

as i have said, many times - I don't care who they upgrade the starting outside wide receiver position.. i don't care if its Watkins or Evans; I don't believe what we have now will produce at the level we need it.

People can chalk it up to Clemens and the run heavy offense all they want - fact remains Chris Givens has been incredibly unproductive regardless - go back to his last 12 games with bradford or last 2013 season.

Only Givens and Hakeem Nicks (whom was cut by the giants) were the starting "#1" receivers who went without scoring a touchdown in the nfl........ 104 other receivers in the NFL managed to get at least one...

I would love Watkins at #2 - sure, absolutely... if we can't get him, oh well..but I feel that what we have right now out wide will not suffice; especially if we want to fight for the division crown..

you tell me givens shouldn't be the #1, and then i ask who is? Pettis - who's snaps extremely decreased from the get go? Or quick, who only got 35% of the snaps? (and do i really need to go into him?)... how about stedman - after a couple games,are you really ready to put your whole future faith in him at wide out?

And most importantly - do you believe any said receivers would be better than Watkins/Evans/another high receiver we would get from this draft...let alone have a bigger impact

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I just don't think we need a true #1 WR to win ball games. (Thanks for reminding me what it was that we're arguing about.)

I also think that we haven't seen enough out of the QB position to know what we have with the talent we currently have.

I also don't think that we have the OL in place to utilize the talent that we do have.

So those are the tenets of my stance, which is why I draw the conclusion that we need to go OL early - rather than drafting Watkins.

If we had the OL in place (i.e., a long-term solution at LT) then I would be all in for Watkins.

Evans is an entirely different conversation. I would defer to other's arguments on him and echo the sentiment that we already have an "Evan's type" receiver in the form of Cook.

Also, I think it's too early to give up on Givens. One more year! One more year!

I just don't think we need a true #1 WR to win ball games. (Thanks for reminding me what it was that we're arguing about.)

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Which has never been my argument. My argument has been the production at wide receiver has been absolutely abysmal, for 6 years.

I have said multiple times that the receiver position needed to be addressed - that doesn't necessarily mean a #1 receiver, that means receivers that are better than what we have. Regardless of how they address it (by FA or draft).

Through the draft, I see a player that has the capability of being a #1.... If he wasn't there or if there wasn't a "potentially #1 WR type", I'd still be pounding the table to upgrade the position.

I also don't think that we have the OL in place to utilize the talent that we do have.

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I disagree - I think we only need a LG.

So those are the tenets of my stance, which is why I draw the conclusion that we need to go OL early - rather than drafting Watkins.

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And I don't like the idea of drafting a tackle to play guard - just because there isn't a chance warmack in the draft doesn't mean you should force it. I get people want him to Guard for a year - but Jake is signed for 3 more years, and I don't see any reason why they would shred that contract up. We've seen how loyal they are players that are important to them. Think of Scott Wells, who has missed way more time than Jake, is older, and has a high cap. They kept him, and he's not nearly as good as Jake.

And I don't like the idea of drafting a tackle to play guard - just because there isn't a chance warmack in the draft doesn't mean you should force it. I get people want him to Guard for a year - but Jake is signed for 3 more years, and I don't see any reason why they would shred that contract up. We've seen how loyal they are players that are important to them. Think of Scott Wells, who has missed way more time than Jake, is older, and has a high cap. They kept him, and he's not nearly as good as Jake.

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For now. But, I haven't read anything that says he's out of the woods yet.