I'm not arguing that drones should be allowed to collect evidence without a warrant, but they were only observing what was readily visible from the air. He could have subverted the police with the use of a cloaking device commonly referred to as "a barn."

If your clever criminal operation can be discovered by someone with access to Google Earth, there really shouldn't be any expectation of privacy.

lennavan:How do you refuse a police warrant to the point that they just walk away and call in SWAT rather than break down your door? The only thing I can think of is by threatening to shoot the cops.

You can just say "No", lock the door/gate/whatever, and leave it at that. Then it's on the police to decide what to do.

If they know you are well armed and tend to be ornery, but you didn't actually threaten them, then if the police decide to wait it out instead of doing a forced entry then it's not like the person did anything other than perhaps obstruct.

Also, remember that this is a 3,500 acre ranch. In a place where you can see people coming from a long way off. It's not like a dynamic entry on a crackhouse in downtown Detroit.

All this and it boils down to "he didn't steal the cows, doesn't trust the police, and was convicted based on that." This looks a LOT like people who are convicted for "resisting arrest" and all other charges are dropped.

Kygz:I read something on this the other day. It appears he was not charged with any of the suspected crimes but is now being charges with 'terrorizing authorities' for refusing a search of his property.

dittybopper:lennavan: How do you refuse a police warrant to the point that they just walk away and call in SWAT rather than break down your door? The only thing I can think of is by threatening to shoot the cops.

You can just say "No", lock the door/gate/whatever, and leave it at that. Then it's on the police to decide what to do.

If they know you are well armed and tend to be ornery, but you didn't actually threaten them, then if the police decide to wait it out instead of doing a forced entry then it's not like the person did anything other than perhaps obstruct.

Also, remember that this is a 3,500 acre ranch. In a place where you can see people coming from a long way off. It's not like a dynamic entry on a crackhouse in downtown Detroit.

They called in SWAT. Whatever actually happened, they clearly felt threatened enough to warrant the SWAT team. Reading some of the anti-government statements from the defendant, I think we can be pretty safe in assuming he threatened the cops. Maybe if this was a court of law we'd have doubt but we can definitely be internet thread level sure.

WhyKnot:If he never actually pointed his gun or threatened harm on an officer, other than failing to obey and resisting arrest, what crime related to the stand off did he commit?

Even if the police get the wrong house and try and arrest your by accident, you can still be convicted of resisting arrest despite doing nothing wrong to warrent getting arrested in the first place. Same as if you get sent to prision for something you didn't do and you escape and manage to prove your innocence, they can still put you back in prison for escaping from prison.

I am waiting for the first police drone shot down by crime drone story. The police are buying used armored assault vehicles, and automatic weapons from the military for a reason. The ongoing arms race between the police and the criminal element, meaning it is only a matter of time before the criminal element has their own drones.

dittybopper:lennavan: How do you refuse a police warrant to the point that they just walk away and call in SWAT rather than break down your door? The only thing I can think of is by threatening to shoot the cops.

You can just say "No", lock the door/gate/whatever, and leave it at that. Then it's on the police to decide what to do.

If they know you are well armed and tend to be ornery, but you didn't actually threaten them, then if the police decide to wait it out instead of doing a forced entry then it's not like the person did anything other than perhaps obstruct.

Also, remember that this is a 3,500 acre ranch. In a place where you can see people coming from a long way off. It's not like a dynamic entry on a crackhouse in downtown Detroit.

Zeno-25:The whole family was armed and refused to let the police execute a warranted search of their property? Holy crap how are these people all still alive?

see the frist prost. change the curve on the graph to probability of being shot by the cops.

Also filthy wealthy ranchers who pay lots of property tax, combined with cops who out in the middle of nowhere don't really itch to beat up people and shoot them like in the cities and the cops just say 'well they aren't going anywhere, they'll get tired of it eventually'. After all it was only 6 cows. Sometimes in a county that is hundreds of square miles that only has 1000 people, there's no reason to panic and call in the SWAT team.

oh and I like how they were found not guilty of the cattle stealing but then the judge says 'if they would have just given the cows back it would have been avoided'. That implies to me they actually had the cows but perhaps the jury just figured it was cows wandering rather than malicious stealing.

Jesus built my hybrid:I am waiting for the first police drone shot down by crime drone story. The police are buying used armored assault vehicles, and automatic weapons from the military for a reason. The ongoing arms race between the police and the criminal element, meaning it is only a matter of time before the criminal element has their own drones.

Drones that size can't carry much and would need complex targeting system. Those are crazy expensive. You'd be better off just throwing rocks at a police drone.

Jesus built my hybrid:I am waiting for the first police drone shot down by crime drone story. The police are buying used armored assault vehicles, and automatic weapons from the military for a reason. The ongoing arms race between the police and the criminal element, meaning it is only a matter of time before the criminal element has their own drones.

It's only a matter of time, if it isn't happening already, before the cartels are using drones to transport contraband over the border.Captured drones tell no tales.

I grew up in this town. To answer the question of how/why the family is still alive... There are less than 5000 people in the entire county. The sheriff and deputies probably went to high school with the guy. Their kids and grandkids go to school with the defendants kids and grandkids. No one felt like pushing the issue and killing or getting killed over a few slabs of beef.

lennavan:dittybopper: lennavan: How do you refuse a police warrant to the point that they just walk away and call in SWAT rather than break down your door? The only thing I can think of is by threatening to shoot the cops.

You can just say "No", lock the door/gate/whatever, and leave it at that. Then it's on the police to decide what to do.

If they know you are well armed and tend to be ornery, but you didn't actually threaten them, then if the police decide to wait it out instead of doing a forced entry then it's not like the person did anything other than perhaps obstruct.

Also, remember that this is a 3,500 acre ranch. In a place where you can see people coming from a long way off. It's not like a dynamic entry on a crackhouse in downtown Detroit.

They called in SWAT. Whatever actually happened, they clearly felt threatened enough to warrant the SWAT team. Reading some of the anti-government statements from the defendant, I think we can be pretty safe in assuming he threatened the cops. Maybe if this was a court of law we'd have doubt but we can definitely be internet thread level sure.

Yes, what he said should definitely warrant him being charged with the crime.And cops are never overeager to call in the SWAT team.The chickens these people were illegally raising could have carried avian flu. Of course the SWAT team is necessary.http://www.popehat.com/2011/03/23/i-show-you-states-exhibit-4-which-i s -a-photo-of-a-sign-reading-warning-this-house-is-protected-by-chuck-no rris/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+Popeh at+%28Popehat%29

And the DOE SWAT Team (yes, the Department of Education has a SWAT team, how the hell else are federal education standards going to be enforced you chickenshiat liberal?) was absolutely necessary to resolve this student loan embezzlement scheme.

What a great day for America. I'm so glad we have our brave boys in blue and the judicious hand of our government to lead them. Of course, my opinion on this will completely change when a different political party takes charge. Because you know THEY can't be trusted.

FLMountainMan:Yes, what he said should definitely warrant him being charged with the crime.

Threatening to shoot the cops for serving a legal warrant is indeed a crime. You'll get over it.

FLMountainMan:What a great day for America. I'm so glad we have our brave boys in blue and the judicious hand of our government to lead them. Of course, my opinion on this will completely change when a different political party takes charge. Because you know THEY can't be trusted.

FLMountainMan:And the DOE SWAT Team (yes, the Department of Education has a SWAT team, how the hell else are federal education standards going to be enforced you chickenshiat liberal?) was absolutely necessary to resolve this student loan embezzlement scheme.

I think you mean the Department Of Energy. The ones responsible for all the nuclear facilities and nuclear material. I believe yes, they have SWAT teams.

lennavan:FLMountainMan: Yes, what he said should definitely warrant him being charged with the crime.

Threatening to shoot the cops for serving a legal warrant is indeed a crime. You'll get over it.

FLMountainMan: What a great day for America. I'm so glad we have our brave boys in blue and the judicious hand of our government to lead them. Of course, my opinion on this will completely change when a different political party takes charge. Because you know THEY can't be trusted.