The Cuban side initiates another round in the fight over the migration accords and the fact that the United States will fall short of issuing 20,000 immigrant visas in Havana during the fiscal year that ends September 30.

15 comments:

It is important to point out that the Hungarian's "Freedom House" tour of Cuba was paid for by US taxpayer money. It must also be noted that they tried sneaking in on a tourist visa, then they go meet with the same old 4 or 5 self-serving dissidents who get all the press.

What is important to point out is the slanted view of leftside. "The same old 4 or 5 self-serving dissidents" They'd like to be able to speak their minds without being beaten by government goons or being thrown into dungeons and starved to death and denied health care. That's self-serving? Well load me up a big helping please! And what kind of visa do you suggest leftside? Tell you what. You get me a protest visa and I'll go to Cuba and raise hell my damn self. I thank the Hungarians efforts and condemn your veiled attempts to manipulate public perception. You complain that dissent must be done in a sneak manner but fail to acknowledge why - this regime has no problem committing genocide against its very own people. How do you sleep dude?

Who of those 4 of 5 has been "beaten by government goons or thown into dungeons, and starved to death and denied health care??" Some have perhaps been harrassed by neighbors or indeed served jail sentances for committing crimes. Today they are free - free to speak to the US media, US Congresspersons, official foreign dignitaries, USIS personnel - but NOT to take money and do the work of other countries. Most appear to have learned that lesson.

You (or even Phil I imagine) can go to Cuba tomorrow, meet everyone you want, no one will really care. But when Congressmen and politicians come on the US Govt. dime to expressly engage in anti-Cuba work, Cuba has every right to expell them for coming in on tourist visas. If diplomats want to meet with dissidents, the US and Spain have shown it is quite easy. But don't break the law in doing so.

Come on left side, don't act stupid. These things that you pretend do not happen in Cuba are the norm there. If you deny that then you have lost all credibility. I guess you can lead a fool to knowledge and factual information but you can make him think.

We all know the regime does not make things easy for those who dedicate their life to bringing down the Revolution. Jail sentences have been given that seem insane from our safe reaches in the United States, unaware of the charge's details and fundamentally defensive reasons why these laws exist (and the US role in making them necessary).

However, I was asking for proof that anyone has been "beaten," "starved" or "denied health care" by the Government for their political beliefs. Those are strong allegations to have EVER occured, let alone being "the norm." It seems to me that normal dissent and opposing ideas are pretty much tolerated these days (in fact Alarcron recently interpreted Raul's July 26th speech to be "appealing to people to be more critical of our own problems...")

Meanwhile, people like Elizardo Sanchez would probably get chased out of Miami for things he's said, such as:

"We're committed to a peaceful formula of transition, a process of national reconciliation that includes all Cubans with the current Government as the main protagonist. Inside Cuba I believe the human- rights movement, other dissident political groups and the churches support this. Unfortunately, conservatives in Washington and in the exile community in Miami don't."

It took me two minutes to find these pictures of Castro's gulag tortures. Either you're not searching very hard or your not looking. As I was saying you look foolish when you make those ridiculous statements about no beatings occurring in Cuba or heath care being denied as punishment and the goon squads. Stop acting foolish.

Ah yes, we come to the "proof" from the source of all sources - therealcuba.com. Except even on this greatest hits site I didn't still didn't see of the initial allegations proven. I see small jail cells and a couple of folks who may or may not be victims of police brutality. I did not see any torture, nor denial of health care, nor forced starvation.

One could only start to imagine what a "realUS" or "realColombia" would look like... how many policie brutality pictures this year in Los Angeles alone?? How many overcrowded and dangerous prisoners, where people die and catch harmful diseases every week? How many pictures of cops overreacting to protests?

If you really think Castro told his "goons" to go and beat up old women - or anyone - you are simply out of touch with reality. I know this because no damas have been roughed up at all. I watched the videos, and saw women yelling and counter-protesting but no one getting beat up... (I don't think you have your date right either). Still, they march regularly in Miramar with no problem.

That just means these ladies have a lot of guts to keep on marching after being beaten. More than you have. You are an idiot in denial. Do you believe Hitler was building little villages for the Jews as well? You holocaust deniers will never have enough evidence to be convinced. But that's okay because the vast majority of humans on this planet see those pictures and agree with me that Castro is a murderous tyrant while you appear to support his evil ways. Naturally you try to change the subject and tar me with the bad U.S. behavior. For the record I don't support Castro's or the U.S.'s bad behavior. The fact is the only way you might believe Castro is a torturer is if he was doing it to YOU. One can only hope. But I'm still not sure if you are a Cuban agent spreading the normal propaganda or one of the fools it is meant for. Which are you?

My point was that you look at a picture of alleged police brutality and call it "torture." You also call the application of the death penalty "murder." Fine, you can have those convictions, but they have to also apply to the United States. Somehow though, I doubt you call US policemen goons and thugs. And given your advocation of chemical and biological warfare on Cuba, you don't strike me as a pacifist against the death penalty. Maybe I am wrong?

Well you'd be wrong again because that is exactly what many police in the US are today when they can get away with it. This sort of behavior is wrong. Being a libertarian I will not advocate the initiation of violence to solve social or political problem. As for biological weapons Castro has plenty right in Havana and you better hope he minds them well or you guys could be in big trouble down there. I saw the picture of the dames being roughed up as did the rest of the world. Because you say it didn't happen does not erase what I witnessed. The regime cannot cover up its evil ways like in the past. Stop defending them. Again you look silly doing so.

You don't advocate violence? Then what about this (link corrected). Here are your words:

Some of my libertarian friends cannot understand how I could advocate chemical and biological warfare tactics to remove Raul and his henchmen from power. Isn’t that against the Geneva Convention?Well let me explain my rational (sic)....

And I am still waiting for this proof of the old ladies being "beaten."

Foolish boy. Read what I wrote. I'm against the initiation of violence. But responding to the 48 years of violence, death and mayhem caused by Castro and his goons is called for. In other words live and let live. Enslave, beat and kill thousands of Cubans over the decades and no death is too painful. I will think up way more devious ways to give the Cuban people the tools to free themselves. Wait till you see what my next tactics will be. You think Fidel can be ruthless? YOU HAVE NOT SEEN ANYTHING YET!!!!

As for proof you are basically asking me to prove a fool like you is an idiot. It's not possible because you do not possess the intellect to understand. However, this chat bores me now and it is a moot point anyway. Fidel is now dead but Raul hasn't got the guts to announce it. Plus Dean is coming your way and will cleanse 48 years of communist ineptitude from the island. So you better leave this chat as well and get some water then find some high ground. The Almighty is coming YOUR way with some enlightenment but something tells me you won't make it through this storm. May God have mercy on your soul. This chat is over!

Tomas,as Soltzhenitsyn said: These communist apologists will not believe these regimes are instrinsically perverse and evil until they are told: put your hands behind your back! If Leftside would spend a few weeks under detention Cuba his tune is surely bound to change. Until then, you are whistling Dixie. Is the nature of all Communist apologists. Newspapers reporters and novelists and other so-called intelectuals from all over the world visited the Soviet Union in the 1930's and saw nothing. Meanwhile millions were disappearing into the Gulag camps and were being shot. Very little has changed with most communists aplogists since that time. They see strictly what they want to see;is called ideological blinders, Tomas. Leftside even sees a kindler and gentlier regime with the ascent of Raul. As if a kindly communist govt. was even possible. Just ask the Cambodian people how kind and gentle the Khmer Rouge was. Or the Peruvians with the Shining Path guerillas. They will give you many examples of kindness,and gentle behaviour, except you will have to see them in their old photographs if they exist, because they all are dead now.