Well if it's for a personal matter it would be - OK Come clean now, did you drop me on the right planet or what?

If things were more peaceful and the economy was ok the question would be why he did that? Did what?
Well that point that Robbin Williams made long ago, "God gave man 2 heads and only enough blood to use 1 at a time."
Why did he do that?

Given the current conditions the question becomes - Why does an absentee landlord need so much real estate and tax exempt status to boot?

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

That's such a dangerous position to be in, but the downside is you can't find out that you're wrong until its too late. I feel sorry for you, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but with an attitude like that, it's obvious that you're hurting inside and struggling in your life. You do have a purpose and God really does love you. So much that while we were sinners, he sent his only son to come teach us and then die for our sins so that we may be redeemed. I know you don't believe it now, but I pray that you do not lose hope and remain closed-minded to the Lord for all your days.

As for my one question, I dunno, I figure I'll do that I'll meet Him one day and I won't care about any of the things of this life by then anyway. Kind of like how I don't care about anything of my life when I was in school because that was a whole different time of my life. My new life is so much fuller now that I couldn't care less about the old one.

That's such a dangerous position to be in, but the downside is you can't find out that you're wrong until its too late.

So what you mean to say is that "God" only exists when your dead - bloody marvelous lot of use God is.

Quote:

I feel sorry for you, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but with an attitude like that, it's obvious that you're hurting inside and struggling in your life. You do have a purpose and God really does love you. So much that while we were sinners, he sent his only son to come teach us and then die for our sins so that we may be redeemed. I know you don't believe it now, but I pray that you do not lose hope and remain closed-minded to the Lord for all your days.

Thanks for the preaching, it makes me feel so warm and fuzzy inside

Not as warm and fuzzy as JC dying so that we could have a 4 day weekend in April - that I appreciate.

If so, I would like to highlight, that to believe in something does mean at the same time, NOT to know.
I mean how more arrogant can a human being get ?
We are aware that we DO NOT know, hence why we decide to believe at one point in our lifes (or have been forced "to believe"), and still, we do not keep it for ourselves (to be and stay happy within), no, we think we have to convert everybody to share the same believe as we have.

Why is that I wonder ?
Doesn't that show how fragile and weak our construct of believe is ?
I mean, IF you really believe in something, you do not have to convince otheres that you do ... does that make sense ?

I'm trying to avoid bringing in the history of religions, but only want to kick off a discussion on philosophical and ethical level.

I'm trying to find some analytical and rational explanation of this phenomena.
Please be aware that I'm not impressed if 99% of the world population would share the same belief ... that doesn't mean anything to me.
The minority of us have a healthy way of thinking and wouldn't like to see our world suffering as it is.
Don't tell me the situation is acceptable, because it's not.
Just having faith and being a strong believer, that hasn't worked, has it ?

But on the other side I have thousands of objections of how we humans treat not only the earth we live on, but also each other every single damn day.
There is a tolerance of what you can affort to do, before you have gone too far.
As it is now, I think we are guilty of having gone hundreds of times over the limit.
What is the sense of that ? Why are so many accepting that ?
Many are complaining but doing nothing worth to mention.

If someone smacks your face, you defend yourself usually.
It appears to me, as if we get smacked day after day, but we're not defending ourselves.

What has gone lost in us that we let that happen ?
We don't have to be doomed for extinction, it could be so much better for every single one of us.

Are you actually aware of how much suffering we have all over the world ?
You maybe informed by television and newspaper, but haven't you become numb ?
Haven't you given up, because you think the authorities are always right, on the grounds of their powers ?

Have we lost that feeling for common sense and courage ?
Have we done too much of a compromise, just to get along within a corrupt system ?

Have we become as corrupt as our environment by now ?
That might be the main question we have to ask ourselves.

And why is there so much greed around ?
I can see 99% of people around me fighting to get higher on the ladder of success, pushing those down who are in the way.
Kicking those who are beneath and prostitute themselves to get always one more step upwards.
Always finding in the last quater of their lifes, that it was the wrong thing to have done, when it's too late.

What does it take to avoid humanity falling down the cliff and earth turning completely into hell ?
There is no God who helps when it gets too critical for us, wouldn't that be too easy ?.
We have managed to make living on this planet like living in hell.

I have the firm opinion, that it is essential to think of the positive potential in humans rather than the negative one.
I'm judging you all as you appear to me - with as little prejudgements as possible.
And on this grounds I have come to the conclusion again & again, that I can't wait to face my final day.
Let the expiration day of my life release me from you.
At the end, we will all be released ... from hell on earth.

I feel sorry for you, and I don't mean that in a bad way, but with an attitude like that, it's obvious that you're hurting inside and struggling in your life. You do have a purpose and God really does love you. So much that while we were sinners, he sent his only son to come teach us and then die for our sins so that we may be redeemed. I know you don't believe it now, but I pray that you do not lose hope and remain closed-minded to the Lord for all your days.

This attitude is *so* arrogant and patronising. If you personally struggle to deal with life without resorting to inventing a crutch to lean on - well I feel sorry for you. Your personal crutch doesn't change the reality of a Godless universe one iota, but that doesn't really matter so long as you keep it to yourself.

By all means pray for the heathens if it makes you feel better - your words and thoughts will evaporate into the emptiness of the void, unheeded, just as prayers always have done and just as they always will. (In many way this is so sad, that people put so much energy into bundling up their hopes for the future then just throwing them away in the vain hope that somebody, anybody, might be listening. But there is no-one listening. So sad.). If you must exploit others in this way though to help you survive day-to-day, please keep quiet about it. The rest of us have our own survival strategies, most of which don't involve the fairies.

This attitude is *so* arrogant and patronising. If you personally struggle to deal with life without resorting to inventing a crutch to lean on - well I feel sorry for you. Your personal crutch doesn't change the reality of a Godless universe one iota, but that doesn't really matter so long as you keep it to yourself.

The problem with both extremes, for and against, is always the same. There is no room for the possibility that the argument one adheres to is incorrect and the other side is correct, or at least has some vald points. You see it in political extremists, religious and non-religious extremists. All extremists represent a severe case of arrogance.

That's what is going to get us all killed.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

How can not believing in something be extremist? - I don't believe in Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy either - is that extremist?

Back on topic - if there was a God, I would ask him why he allowed his followers to slaughter so many people in his name. And not just heathens, but each other, i.e. Catholics vs. Protestants from the Middle Ages to the present day.

Its hard to be extremist when you're saying there's no tooth fairy when there is no one arguing otherwise. You don't see anyone arguing that stopping for red lights is a bad idea, that's why we don't have people screaming yes we do have to stop for red lights. Not a valid argument.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

Its hard to be extremist when you're saying there's no tooth fairy when there is no one arguing otherwise. You don't see anyone arguing that stopping for red lights is a bad idea, that's why we don't have people screaming yes we do have to stop for red lights. Not a valid argument.

Its hard to be extremist when you're saying there's no tooth fairy when there is no one arguing otherwise.

There is a tooth fairy, the evidence is all around us. The 'facts' purported by other members of this forum that are being wrongly interpreted to mean that their is no tooth fairy are merely put there by the tooth faith to test our faith. The tooth fairy still loves you. As does the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Micheal Jackson.

How can not believing in something be extremist? - I don't believe in Father Christmas or the Tooth Fairy either - is that extremist?

Yes, I'd say so.

Now it is nothing to disbeleive in any and all concepts of god(s). These are mere idols. There is no doubt however that there is something of which we are just conceptions. You may think this is just the sum of space-time. Fine, well then that is your god.

Is belief in space-time extremist? Sure, not believing in it is too. More like idiotic.

As far as the orignal topic: I don't so much expect to be answered as to be questioned:

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Then Job replied to the LORD : "I know that you can do all things; no plan of yours can be thwarted.

You asked, 'Who is this that obscures my counsel without knowledge?' Surely I spoke of things I did not understand, things too wonderful for me to know.

"You said, 'Listen now, and I will speak; I will question you, and you shall answer me.'

My ears had heard of you but now my eyes have seen you.

Therefore I despise myself and repent in dust and ashes."

Last edited by QuietOC on Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

Its hard to be extremist when you're saying there's no tooth fairy when there is no one arguing otherwise.

There is a tooth fairy, the evidence is all around us. The 'facts' purported by other members of this forum that are being wrongly interpreted to mean that their is no tooth fairy are merely put there by the tooth faith to test our faith. The tooth fairy still loves you. As does the Flying Spaghetti Monster and Micheal Jackson.

Now we wait and see if somebody decides to start screaming in your face that you're an idiot, puts up billboards that the tooth fairy doesn't exist, goes to Santa displays at stores around Christmas to tell all the kids that they are totally wrong and Santa doesn't exist either. I mean, thinking of the havoc that this person could wreak just at the local dentist's office.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

I lived in London for the past 10 years and nobody, NOBODY I have ever watched crossing the roads, has put attention on whether the traffic lights show green or red.

Meaning, they decided to cross the road upon the traffic and not on the traffic lights.

In a different country (within the EU), I have noticed that people stand on the curb, waiting for the lights to change to green before crossing ... even there is no car as far as the eye can see.

These're two extreme points. So, ...

But extremists also tend to shove their opinion down your throat. Ignoring lights by pedestrians is playing the odds. I've noticed more of that as laws giving pedestrians the right of way regardless have been showing up lately locally. But if you walk up to them and ask them do people get run over when they cross the road and don't pay attention? They will probably answer yes, it happens. Right or wrong, they are not denying the possibility that the opposite of what they practice clearly and logically does not exist. People know cigarettes are bad for them, they still smoke. That's not being an extremist, that's just "Who cares?"

An extremist may argue that if you don't believe in Jesus (or whomever) then you go to hell. So one that lives off the grid in a jungle isolated from civilization and has never heard of him will go to hell? That's an example of ridiculous arrogance. Either that, or Christians have one really nasty God, which also goes against general teachings, and is typical of extemist's stance.

Religion can do a lot of good. It's biggest weakness is its manipulatability. <--- I have no idea if that's really a word.

_________________People who put money and political ideology ahead of truth and ethics are neither﻿ patriots nor human beings.

As for my one question, I dunno, I figure I'll do that I'll meet Him one day and I won't care about any of the things of this life by then anyway. Kind of like how I don't care about anything of my life when I was in school because that was a whole different time of my life. My new life is so much fuller now that I couldn't care less about the old one.

So, the past and present aren't important to you. I also wonder, if you haven't meet "Him" in "this life" who are you expecting to meet in some other? Exactly what are you full of? Your words are definitely full of modern religious cliches. You sound like you are in a cult.

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