I love the scrappy mockery of Jesus and Mo. Freedom of speech
includes the freedom to mock any person, any thing, any activity, and
any belief -- and J&M stands up for this unflinchingly Richard Stallman

A toy is produced in an assembly line in a shoddy factory.Suddenly the toy claim of its own origin.
What the !!HELL!!
The manufacturer or the toy has the authority or knowledge of claiming the toys origin???

If you are one of those shoddy toys, solomon, are you not breaking your own rule?

What authority do you have to claim knowledge of a supposed creator? Why should I accept your claim that we are toys, produced in an assembly line in a shoddy factory? You’re asking us to accept your premises without explanation – and I don’t. Atheists don’t. What meaning does the authority of your “manufacturer” have to me, if he doesn’t exist, and why should we believe he does?

@Blakey and Peter Harris: Please don’t feed the troll. Stupid theists make me blush so terribly! (I know most of you think a stupid theist is a redundant pleonasm ^_^ still, please don’t give him reason to make me feel even more ashamed…)

I love the trolls. They bring such…excitement to this forum. Otherwise we are all preaching to the choir, so to speak.
@Solomon Did you grow up in a religious environment or did you come to these conclusions on your own? Tell us a bit about yourself. Did you complete highschool? Are you over twelve years old? What’s the last book you read? Are you really worried about hell? We’re not. We think it doesn’t exist. Makes our lives much happier, and allows us to concentrate on right now instead of worrying about an afterlife that we also don’t think exists. It really doesn’t work to threaten us with something that doesn’t exist, you know. It’s like threatening somebody with a wiffle bat or a pool noodle. Just makes us laugh.

I would agree that humans are mostly manufactured by not particularly skilled but at least competent labourers

but here’s something for you to ponder – you can only enjoy heaven knowing that other people are suffering in hell – that hardly makes you a shining example of morality and decency in any world view

further, if it turns out there there is a heaven and hell, it would easily be one and the same, for eternity surrounded by your ilk smirking “I told you so”, would pretty much be hell for any rational person

If I’am one of the shoddy toys, I must say I did’nt break any rules.I did’nt claim my origin nor I claim of my creator. My creator, unlike the manufacturer did the claim himself.The shoddy toys is actually refering to your lots(atheists).And the claim made by my creator is not without proof and reasoning.I’am refering your lots to the shoddy toys coz you all posses a heart but fail to use it for reasoning.

Thanks for “loving” the trolls. For the time being let me be anonymous.
Well not to dissapoint you here are some tips to myself. I grew in a normal happy surroundings, not to say a religious one. I completed high school and is over 12. I made conclusions based on knowledge + reasoning.I’am not sure what you meant by the last book that I read but the book will always be the words of God. And why should I not really worried about hell if thats the place that I might be left forever.
And how do you know that hell and God does’nt exists?Can you proove it?
Let say theres a star called “X” far beyond the galaxy. Can you ever prove it that it did’nt exist?But by reasoning your heart will believe that such star exists.

And since you seems to be an ardent fan of Charles Darwin, I have some homework for you.

Please provide the fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to man which must have existed in abundance if evolution is true.

@Solomon I’m far beyond the age when I will accept “homework” from a person who has not read anything beyond Answers in Genesis. You will find all the proof any rational person could ever ask for in a recent book by Richard Dawkins. The books is called “The Greatest Show on Earth”. Professor Dawkins will answer all of your questions about fossil records, the age of the earth, the way scientists have measured the age of the earth, and the many and varied ways that scientists have come to the conclusion that evolution is not “just a theory” but a fact. I promise you that if you read that book with an open mind, you will not bother people with questions that only make you look amazingly ignorant.
One test of a scientific theory is whether it is predictive. The theory of evolution has been incredibly predictive. Every test anybody can think of that would refute the theory has been met and passed. We can see evolution happening before our eyes, not just at the microbial level but in creatures living today. In the wing of a penguin you can see the gradual change from lizard scales to feathers. If you read “The Beak if the Finch” you will learn about a whole family of scientists who spent their entire lives measuring and examining the beaks of Galapagos finches and correlating the measurements against changes in the environment. If you think you are qualified to argue with me, or any knowledgeable person, about evolution, you are a complete idiot.

@Solomon
A proper christian is supposed to pray for his detractors, not gloat over their coming fate. You’ve failed the compassion test in epic form, and it might well bar you from your heavenly repose. Moreover, if you’re still convinced that you can think/speak any mean-spirited thing you want and still get in, you’ll have failed the humility test as well. From what I’ve heard, the Big Guy doesn’t want cruel and conceited types round him, no matter how much they say they “accept Christ”. I’m afraid it’s hellfire and dancing imps for you too, my boy.

Richard Dawkins Greatest show on earth or other craps that you propose would do no good if you still can’t produce a straight forward fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to man which must have existed in abundance if evolution is true.
You just act like a foolish dude following the silly Darwin & Dawkins without reasoning.Now who are the idiots??

@ Solomon – every one of your arguements for your religion can be used against you when trying to defend evolution except that the is absolutely no proof available for “sky daddy” but we have a planet full of proof for evolution. Most of us have read the bible but you seem unwilling to “learn” anything about evolution. Man did not directly evolve from apes so your question is irrelevant in the extreme. See you in the void my friend….

@Freefox. Preaching to the choir is just hometown idiom meaning stating opinions which everybody who is listening will agree with. No offense meant. As for liking you or not, the jury is still out on that one. I like people I trust, and you are a hard person to trust. But I certainly bear you no ill will or animosity.
As for the troll, he’s another one who is obviously too ignorant to know how ignorant he is. I’m never sure whether such people are truly stupid, or just brainwashed and mislead. In his case, it could be both. I’m shut of him. Not worth the words.

Steve
Darwin definitely has a better grip on the situation.
As for Solomon and other godnuts, I’ve always found a certain cruel amusement in messing with their heads – what they tend to have in common, despite all their smug bluster and certitudes, is an underlying nagging dread that they won’t make it to heaven in the end. Imagine how hauntingly dreadful that must be to someone who genuinely believes the place exists. It explains his shrill, gloating threats – the fear-addled can only calm themselves by trying to export their fear to others. Pitiful, really.

@SteveinMI I take that as a rare compliment. Regarding the pun, before my dick started to lose interest, wanking was one of my hobbies and I turned it into an art form. Way back in the sixties, Ann Landers and Dear Abby let us know that it’s actually good for you, releasing all kinds of health giving hormones. It’s our only completely safe sex. It should be taught in schools. So incredible that masturbation, with assertions that it caused everything from heart problems to epileptic fits, was the justification for the medical hysteria and craze for circumcision that started in the late 1800’s. Surprising that the doctors haven’t lost all credibility, but they are still trying. Telling young men in Africa that circumcision makes sex safer, while the Pope is telling them not to use a condom, sounds like the ultimate in irresponsibility to me.

Can !!HELL!!! be worse than the sun.
The Atheists keep ranting Where is Hell?? Where is HELL??
Did’nt they notice a place(sun) that might be worst than !!HELL!! have long existed in front of their eyes?

The concept of creationism is very well established & universal. Every second something is created, its well proven.Its a very simple 1,2,3.concept.
Poooff..! there you are.A simple toy,a shiny Mercedes benz,a ‘cup’ of bra,anything you can imagine.
Now look at evolution It can’t hardly produce a decent sets of fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to men.
Evolution is at the verge of becoming a museum piece exhibit for the foolishness of men.

English is not my primary language but I’am grateful to God being able to speak in more than one language, so don’t be too proud of what you’re mastering in. The main goal is to get the truth delivered, whereas language is of second importance.

@ Solomon – “Now look at evolution It can’t hardly produce a decent sets of fossil proofs of the gradual transformation from ape to men.”

I’ve read the bible, and can find no EVIDENCE of creation. Now I would ask you to read “The Greatest Show on Earth”, R. Dawkins, and then tell me you can find no evidence of evolution. Not only are the fossils there, there are many other forms of evidence available that prove that evolution is a fact beyond reasonable doubt. I am not a “believer” in Dawkins; I simply see that he presents the evidence well and in an easily readable form, complete with references to the source research.

Then again, there is none so blind as he who will not see.

@ MrGronk – whilst I sympathise with your point, I think it is important that we engage people like Solomon. If we simply ban anyone with whom we disagree, after a few posts, then we are no better than them. Religion is a bit like smoking; hard to give up, especially if you started young. It’s just a pity you can’t buy patches or chewing gum to help :-).

@HaggisforBrains Well said. I gave up on Solomon because he refuses to look at actual evidence. But I’m not comfortable with banning him. Just stop engaging if there’s no hope of making any difference. I like seeing believers on this forum. Believers need to hear from us, if only to be told that they are ignorant. Tell them that enough times and maybe they will decide to read a book that might actually teach them something instead of just confirming what they already “know”. We’ve read their books. They need to read ours.

Haggis, I’m all for welcoming thoughtful believers in and engaging them in a good, robust debate. But trolls just spout second-hand bilge then smugly block their ears when we offer them counterpoints. I must confess I don’t have Darwin’s patience and optimism that the troll may have a tiny seed of intellect in his head. Anyway, Author in his/her great forbearance and mercy doesn’t ban people for being wrong, only for being boring.

Without reading “the greatest(lousiest) show on earth” I would have guessed what it may contain. It’s a pity that you all are easily deceived by the statements & pictures contain in it. Dawkin is like a magician, hiding the truth and exposing the orchestrated lies.
Use your reasoning once in a while. It won’t deceive you.

@Solomon I certainly could not have guessed what the Bible contains without reading it. It amazes me that you can do this with “The Greatest Show on Earth”. Quite a trick. Knowing what books say without reading them must remove any need for education. You must be the most educated man on earth. We must start giving you more respect. We have a great scholar among us now.

@Solomon Or did I misunderstand you? Did you actually get your hands on a copy of “The Greatest Show on Earth” and look at some of the pictures? If that’s the case, you really need to actually read it. If you find points you can argue with, please let us know. We have examined any points we can think of arguing, and can find no refutation of the conclusions. If our reasoning is deceiving us, please tell us exactly and specifically where and how.
We do not appeal to authority. We appeal to evidence. There seems to us to be a huge pile of evidence, as Professor Dawkins has so clearly explained. It’s not evidence he has discovered himself or invented. It’s evidence built up over decades and now well over a century by literally thousands of dedicated scientists. Where’s your problem with it? Specifically.

@ Soloman wrote “The concept of creationism is very well established & universal” yes all primitive societies needed a sense of how they arrived here and made up creation stories to explain it. We are lucky! We live in the age of The Hubble Telescope, The Human Genome Project and The Large Hadron collider, we can’t explain it in all detail, but we do understand enough to say this is where it started and this is how we got to where we are today, read about it Soloman it is a story far richer and far more fantastic then the fables made up by a group of nomads wandering around the Middle East a few thousand years ago.

Solomon
I’ve seen nothing written by you that constitutes a reasoned argument but will explain why I think that my world view is more coherent then yours.
Everything that goes towards my view of the universe the big bang followed by star and planetary formation the creation of life and evolution due to natural selection is based on REPEATABLE observation, the key word here is repeatable, measure the same thing in the same way and (within limits) the answers will be the same.
Your world view however cannot be tested in the same way my one can, for example, the power of prayer seems to be rather unreliable, of all the millions of prayers offered to the late Pope only one seems to have resulted in a miraculous healing. The only source book for your world view is riddled with inconsistencies, and actions, that these days, would get the perpetrators hauled up before the court in The Hague on war crimes charges.

Does’nt the word repeatable that you mention always occur in creationism. The human existence, the animals, insects, birds ,plants and billions & billions of creatures all exists repeatedly. Whereas your so called evolution is not repeatable when talking of a single living species. It occur once in different steps or processes. And what sort of being is Nature??

Can somebody explain to me what is “NATURE”?
Is it some intelligent being which could shape the universe, the laws of physics, chemistry or biology.Which have the ability that even humans can’t think of.
What a !!BULLSHIT!! the Atheists could simply put all the the powers or intelligence just to a one !!BLOODY !! word called !!NATURE!!
Atheists are sure some !!BLOODY FOOL!! who are condemn to !!HELL!!

You want to know why the power of prayers seems to be rather unreliable?
Its because most of them direct their prayer to a man, Jesus. Jesus is only a man who has no powers at all to grant wishes except by the will of the true God almighty. Jesus is not God or some refer him as the son of God.
I wonder which one is his identity. Can he be God or at the same time be the son of God???

It’s always amusing for me to hear the Solomon’s of the world rant on about hell, never getting it that they are living in hell every day. In example: “If I think about that I’m going to hell, if I do this I’m going to hell, if I look at that I’m going to hell, if I say this I’m going to hell, if….”. As members of the choir, I’m assuming that you all will get the point. Thanks Solomon, but I’ll enjoy my heaven here on earth and not worry if there is or is not a hell waiting for me, I’m reasonably sure that there are only worms and entropy to look forward to. To cover my bet in case I’m wrong, I made arrangements to be buried with a good supply of marshmallows to toast on that lake of fire, I only pray that there are twigs to hold them on for their roasting.

In his wisdom, Soloman asks:
“You want to know why the power of prayers seems to be rather unreliable?”
Well for the record, prayers are not unreliable. All prayers are answered, but sometimes the answer is no.

And in an attempt to leap back on topic, I think my sex life is as good as it’s ever going to get just the way it is, but on the other hand…..

Seems Solomon is not an Xtian, but his choice of pseudonym suggests a follower of the so-called Abrahamic tosh. Therefore he’s either a Red Sea Rambler, a Muhamaddan, or a member of some small, derived sect with limited outreach. I’ll plump for the latter. What do the rest of you think?

Imagine a vast universe.Suddenly theres this tiny blue planet that contains abundance of water,natural gases, living things and many other wondrous creations.Its amazing that these living & non living thing suddenly can adapt with its surroundings.
Take an ant for a trip to the moon for example.See, what will become of his fate. Poor ant..

Who could have orchestrated all that??
Is it your lousy nature or evolution?

See how the Atheists are too stupid to realize the reasoning behind those phenomena.

@Solomon.http://tiny.cc/515mr
Look at that picture and explain why and how you can possibly think that your concerns could ever matter to the creator of that–natural process or cosmic magic man–it doesn’t matter.

Feynman said it well- “The stage is too big for the drama”. One of the results of studying astronomy is the realisation that it all cannot be for our benefit. Similar reactions pertain to studying biology. But, hey–others are different.
It’s not a knock-down argument but I feel myself wanting to ask– where can YOUR god be in all that? Not any god- but the petty-fogging neurotic, jealous, sex-obsessed god of the Judeo-Christian-Moslem world. He has no place. He has no role. Grow up.

Daoloth: yes, religious cosmology is so feeble and measly compared to what human reason has discovered – who would want to live under a mere crystal vault with sparkly bits in it? After all, one implication of a 6000 year old universe is that it could be no more than 6000 light years across – a notion so patently idiotic that even the stupidest fundies know better than to try asserting it. In Charles Freeman’s Closing Of The Western Mind, he makes the point that for a thousand years between 400 and 1400AD, nobody in the western world made an astronomical observation, that is to say, an attempt to investigate, analyse and predict the behaviour of the heavens. They were all infected by the massive indifference to nature and truth that too much religion does to people. They would look up at the Milky Way and just think “meh”, or if they had curiosity their priest would just say “god dunnit”. Just as well that the muslim world was having its only ever bout of open-minded enquiry at the same time, or we might still be cowering at the sight of easily predicted eclipses and comets. So I thank Solomon’s predecessors (assuming he’s muslim – I was caught out before) for keeping their wits alive for a few centuries at least, before sinking back into the comforting swamp of ignorance.

It occurs to me that the trolls serve a very valuable function. They turn our minds to the glories we know, and have us contemplating the words of Sagan yet again. I appreciate that. They make us, and our world, look so very enchanting by comparison. Brightens my day.

solomon, you baffle me. maybe i misinterpreted your words, but how else do you think baby apes were made? that would have required intercourse aka penis entering the vagina, so that the sperm can find the egg (very much like human reproduction and the way you were made/conceived). you have falsely presumed (or at least i think that you falsely presumed) that primates reproduce/have sex through anal sex just because of their sexual position. think before you speak, please! that is the worse so-called “evidence” against evolution that i’ve ever heard.

Solomon, you use the internet, you watch television, drive in a car, fly in an aero-plane, you use all of the wonders of the 21st century without a second thought, you live in the technological age but insist that Big Beardy lives in the sky and makes the Earth go round the Sun; don’t you see the inconsistency between the life you lead and the thoughts you think?

Solomon
Let me let you into a secret humans have vaginal intercourse in positions other then face to face too.
If the powerful deity is behind all these technological wonders why were they made in secular countries?

@Solomon You know, I’ve been thinking deeply about what you have said. I’m impressed with the depth of your knowledge and your astute arguments. Your reasoning astounds me. You have brought about a profound conversion to my very soul. My whole belief system has shifted, yeah verily it has crumbled into dust. It was like that Saul fellow on the road to Damascus. The scales have fallen from my eyes and I see the TRUTH. I shall give up this silly effort to understand reality through looking at evidence, and accept fully that it was all done by your God. All those scientists may be clever enough to send a robot to Mars, or decode the human genome, but they are idiots compared to a person like you. Thank you for opening my eyes. I shall spend the rest of my days in devotion and prayer, quaking in fear of HELL!! should God me lacking, and thanking the almighty Lord for sending you to us to bring such wisdom and enlightenment. Thanks be unto you for your contributions to this forum. I’m sure everybody appreciates your thoughts and your profound wisdom. Your work is done here now. You can move on, but please don’t tell me where you live or I would have to set all my worldly interests aside, take a vow of poverty, and follow you as an apostle. Your light is truly blinding. Thanks you. Thank you.

I think I have just completely shattered and pissed on the first of The Four Agreements. When will I learn that children do not understand sarcasm? But seriously, folks. Enoug is enough. Time to stop feeding the troll.

Long time reader; it took a troll to force me out of my mute admiration of J&M, Author and several of his faithless followers.

@Solomon, since you’re thanking your sky-daddy for your ability to “being able to speak in more than one language” can you please – as homework if you like – pinpoint the exact second (OK, minute, hour, day or year will do) your particular version of English was created?

Solomon
I give up, against such blind faith I cannot prevail, but I leave you with this thought; while you spend your life in fear that you might by thought or deed or indeed by accident, offend your God and be condemned to an eternity in Hell; I rest easy in the sure knowledge that all that I encounter will be oblivion, the rest is silence.

People, please stop feeding the troll. Solomon’s position is not coherent; he states that he’s not a christian, his name implies judaism (if Islamic, he’d be expected to go with Suleiman) but his belief in hell does not fit that. Ergo, combined with his utter lack of any logical argument, I suspect he’s a fake, phony, shoddy strawman of someone pretending to be a highly annoying idiot and see who they can fool by adding a vague religious flavour (while never stating what religion he follows) and taking advantage of Poe’s law. Please ignore him.

I think that religion really makes beleivers crazy about sex, seriously Solomon, instead of thining about it, just have some – then you’ll understand how positions work and be less uptight

humans are apes and we’re bendy enough to get into a lot of positions with other people and things

Jane Goodall documented a chimp and baboon having sex and the chip hung from a tree to get the mojo working, since chimps and baboons have different usual positions – heck, there’s a youtube video of a male chimp using a frog first as a sex toy and then basically as, well, lubricant – it didn’t work out so well for the frog.

This Soloman guy could really piss off the pope. I mean that I really would like to wait for this lost lamb of god to go to his final reward, because it’s so hard to let the lobs go by and not swing at them, i.e.

“Its amazing that these living & non living thing suddenly can adapt with its surroundings.”

Even if that born again hallucinogenic estimate of humankind on earth for 6,000 years were somehow true, I’d be hard pressed to call that “suddenly”. And if you go past the Flintstones images of humans sharing the planet with Dino the dinosaur, the millions / billions of years have allowed plenty of time for evolution, which most humans (excluding, perhaps, you) have done. And by the way, if atheists do inherit hell, at least there won’t be much tax to pay on it.

O.K., my work here is done, now I’ll await the lightning bolt to silence me.

@random ntrygg. Well, something came out of the troll feeding process. I got to see a chimp fuck a frog. http://tiny.cc/5cmqf. Truly that is something that you don’t see every day. Although I would like to.

Common religious people Why are you afraid islam is still 1.5 billion christianity is still 2.5 and atheists are only 1.1 billion . Atheists are cool and fun to be with! That’s Why probably 3 billion abrahamychos engage in atheistic activities and the rest 600 millions are moisturizing their beards or trying their best to look ugly and stubbornly boring.

Join the club joinnnnn, look into my eyes , look into my eyes, not around the eyes But in the eyes. After i click my fingers you’ll become atheists. I learned this spell from the evil richards dawkins.

random ntrygg
You are right, instead of sending troops into Afghanistan we should send whores thousands of them, once the young Talibs had had a few good shags and knew more were coming they’d stop being so obsessed by Big Beardy in the Sky.
There’s a bit in 1984 where Winston and Julia are having a post coital discussion about why The Party is so down on sex, Julia says something along the lines of “right now I don’t give a damn about The Party, BB, the slogans or the bloody 5 minute hate, all I want to do is lay here with you”
You could replace The Party with The Taliban or The Church, and the sentiment would still be true.

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