//I am not saying that the Cultural Revolution and the nightmares of Mao's rule didn't wreak havoc on the Chinese either. But at least, one could say they asked for it. The Tibetans didn't. To them it was a nightmare inflicted by outsiders, shades of which still continue...//

What? You don't believe in karma and that the Tibetans deserved it too? =) After all, there's clearly many precedents that Tibetans warlords and lamas tried to invade China, hoping to conquer it Mongol style. They were attempting this as early as the Tang dynasty, (occupied Chang'an for a few days). The latest was the during the chaos on the nationalist era. Seems getting conquered and incorporated into China was only fair.

//And after 50 years, the struggle continues. The people of Tibet were close-knit, and didn't have the strict caste system of classes so evident in Chinese feudal society. This book details how the Chinese have systematically tried to destroy Tibetan culture and society to force-fit it into a Chinese model.//

I like how you described Chinese 'feudal society' using the Indian associated term as the 'strict caste system'. It seems you and me agree that India culture and society are degenerate and evil, and it would be better off the world didn't learn from India. Korea and Japan also borrowed the caste system from India. Their society took off after they shed that superstitious crap. =)

In any case, you are wrong. Chinese people are elitist and class conscious. However, the ancient Four Occupations were more enlightened than India ever achieved. India put the warrior caste as one of the top caste, demonstrating that they value victory and oppression through bloodshed and warfare. Similarly Japan, who has the Samurai caste went on to commit the most horrific atrocities during WW2. Soldiers however, are not classed within the Chinese Four Occupations, demonstrating the distaste for war and the pacifist ideal of the Chinese people. Of course, an ideal gentlemen is skilled in dealing both Culture and Conflict.

Indian varna next classed the Priesthood, as one of the highest caste, demonstrating the use of organized religion and superstition to control the people. With western enlightenment thinking on separation of Church and State, we can safely say such belief belongs the the trash bin of history.

Next are the Merchants, with the lowest regard given to the actual producers of goods Artisans/Farmers themselves.

The Chinese Occupations on the other hand, places high regard for learning with the Gentry Scholar class. They placed high regards on the producers of goods Farmers and Artisans, seeing them as vital to the society. Finally traders were also considered essential, but placed on the lowest rung of society, because like the capitalists of today, they are considered to often profit unfairly from the work of others. However, class mobility is apparent, as merchants have risen to great power as far back as the Warring States over two thousand years ago. (Often also threatening the stability of the state. In some way, China has been socialist since ancient times!)

Indeed, the ideals and issues in the discussion of ancient Chinese society is still surprisingly relevant today. Whereas the Indian caste system are noting more than an oppressive system of societal control.

Further more, please stop portraying the Tibetans as previously having a classless paradise. Thailand was also a heavily Buddhist state, and the society was both heavily religious and structured. Slavery is practiced. Feudal lords are followed about everywhere by an army of unproductive retinues. If you need visual aid, you could watch Thai historical movies such as Legend of Suriyothai which demonstrate the state of society in historical Siam. Thailand ofcourse, modernized heavily through the intervention of a few enlightened kings such as King Rama 5 Chulalongkorn, whose achievements include the abolishment of slavery. He is still worshipped as one of their greatest hero today.

In anycase, China claimed credit for freeing the slaves in Tibet. Some people claim that this is propaganda, as the Tibetans in exiles do not practiced slavery today. Infact, both are true, Tibet did have slavery, however, it would have ended, with or without China's input. As such a system cannot continue in the modern world. Then again, we thought the same about India's evil caste system. Perhaps not.

"a S Korean court fined a Korean man for publicly scolding a Korean girl in a bus "Why must you insult/shame us Koreans by dating this dirty Indian man ?"

>>>>>>Your point is that the COURT fined a man for racial abuse?

"S.Korean media reported the Court fining a Korean bus-driver for waking up a sleeping INdian pasenger by using his feet to shake him & saying "I am using my feet & not my hands because this Indian is so dirty"

Your point is what? the FREE press REPORTED this story and the stupid racist bus driver was FINED?

Just click on pro-posters like Scumme and SmiBaiMuFating and you can see that they never deviate from the party line. google 50c - wiki etc. Not everyone in China with extreme views are 50c - just as their are rednecks in US etc - Hindu extremists in India dengdeng - simply stupid

"Every article related to China seems to elicit the same and rather uniform response. It only underscores the fact that years of authoritarian rule have caused a regimentation of society, and one which serves the Chinese people poorly. The reaction is uniformly the same with little diversity of opinion. It is predictable and boring. If a defense must be made of such a wretched system, it could be made with more graceful and elegant words. Otherwise it sounds like a communist party broadsheet"

You are absolutely right - but I take issue with the following point:

"It only underscores the fact that years of authoritarian rule have caused a regimentation of society, and one which serves the Chinese people poorly. The reaction is uniformly the same with little diversity of opinion"

You can't judge general Chinese opinion based on the postings on this site. I have lived in mainland China, Malaysia, Singapore and have many Chinese friends from the mainland - they are more than aware of their governments short-cummings, as well as all of the advances etc.

The extreme single minded views of posters like Smiling Baimu Tiger are more intune with 50cent propaganda than general Chinese opinion. These posters are dispised as much on internal sites as external.

>> I disagree with your baseless assumptions that democracies are more welcoming to expats --- certainy there are lots of complaints from muslims, Africans, 3rd world migrants in Europe about the hostile reception

What about the terrifying killings & violences against India's students studying in democratic Australia ? Dont seem very open & welcoming ...

On the other hand, all the comments in this forum, by Western expats in China had spoken positively & favorably about the warmth, & friendliness of the Chinese people towards them--- with words like "kind" ,..friendly"..."great"

(1) S Korea is also democratic but 2 recent incidents highlighted their hostility/racism to Indian expats when......

...a S Korean court fined a Korean man for publicly scolding a Korean girl in a bus "Why must you insult/shame us Koreans by dating this dirty Indian man ?"

... S.Korean media reported the Court fining a Korean bus-driver for waking up a sleeping INdian pasenger by using his feet to shake him & saying "I am using my feet & not my hands because this Indian is so dirty"

My point---democracy is not a magic bullet that guarantees a non-racist or non-hostile people

It's important to remember that Western expats in China have it good here because they are making Western salaries while living here. Their co-workers are not hired if they do not work well with foreigners, so of course they find them friendly. If any of them had to experience the life of an average Chinese inlander, interact with non-educated dialect speakers, have regular electricity and Internet blackouts, and use squat public toilets, they might find themselves more apt to complain at the local Irish Pub.

This is more akin to the life of a Chinese expat in Europe, England, or the U.S. If Chinese expats had the money to spend in the West the way they spend it at home, there would be more "Chinese" feeling restaurants and cultural centers for them to patronize. Alas, not yet.

The tales related in this article are somewhat obvious. The usual complaints and kudos from expats on both sides. The interesting question that it fails to examine is whether expats on either side (particularly expat Westerners) would settle down and raise family's in a foreign culture, particularly one like China. My personal opinion as an Indian is that the West is welcoming, and it is easier for us to settle down here. And this is not determined by economics alone.

I do not believe that food is an issue anymore. All kinds of cuisines are available everywhere. Alternatively, we can buy any ingredient anywhere and cook it ourselves. So this is not an issue. What may be important is our outlook and our ability to accept a different culture without being judgmental. Further it helps when the society to which we are transplanted doesn't care where we come from or care about who we are. And both of these are related. Democratic societies generally tend to provide greater exposure to other cultures, are more welcoming thereof, and make expats more comfortable. China has disadvantages in this respect. Its expatriates generally tend to feel uncomfortable or defensive outside of its borders.

It may be better to determine "where life is easier" by looking at the issue from this viewpoint. On a separate note, the reactions from the Chinese diaspora to articles like this are rather disappointing. Every article related to China seems to elicit the same and rather uniform response. It only underscores the fact that years of authoritarian rule have caused a regimentation of society, and one which serves the Chinese people poorly. The reaction is uniformly the same with little diversity of opinion. It is predictable and boring. If a defense must be made of such a wretched system, it could be made with more graceful and elegant words. Otherwise it sounds like a communist party broadsheet.

We live in exciting times where an exchange of ideas is more possible than ever before. Nationalism and notions of cultural superiority are straitjackets. Our orientation to our times and our degree of openness tells us who adjusts better where.

"I know I am being politically incorrect when I ask this: How many white or Asian men would like to marry black women even if the above is not the case?"

25% of American blacks have white genes. Most of it coming from the Father's side. So white men having been keeping black mistresses ever since the first female slaves stepped off the boot from Africa.]

How do you know it was through "keeping black mistresses"? How about rape? The Blacks were slaves at the time. Their young masters could rape them with impunity.

Devil's"

After 1865 there was no slavery, and still most of the relations was between White Men and Black Women. The whole black man and white women thing was very recent. Only in the past 40 years. I am sure the black gene pool in America has more European Y chromosomes than the there are African Y chromosomes floating in the White gene pool in America..

A black man would be lynched just for whistling at a white woman in the South as late as the early 1960s.

Now that the tendentious pseudo historical/political revisionist howling and baying is out of the way, the topics are turning towards what I found reasonable expats always engage in with the locals pretty much everywhere: food and women. Although we, baby boomers, are/were the most insufferable generation in the last millennium, we got the "make love not war" dead right. And when we talk about a righteous party, we do not mean a political one...
Intermarriages. There have been different studies in California regarding this subject for a while now, and good data exist. As a matter of fact, there is no majority race in California anymore. Yes, the largest is still the group that identified itself as White/European on the latest census. Those data will be available to the public soon. The last data I know of is 47% of California's population was White/European. One of the many studies dealt with the "happiness" of the mixed-race couples. Happiness was defined in terms of divorce - measurable and verifiable. Marriage, any marriage, is a loosing proposition in California; just look at the statistics. Anyway. The most successful marriages were between Asian (non-Indian) women and White/European men. The least successful ones were between Hispanic/Latino men and White/European women. When the study was done twenty years ago, there were no (i.e. zero) marriages between Blacks and Indians. The permutations were quite interesting. Race/culture mixing was was not as good of a predictor of a marriage's success as specifying which gender of which race/culture mixed with which gender of the other race/culture. I am pretty sure a slew of PhD's, in different disciplines, could be got from interpreting those data.

Devil's_advocate_2:

White men marry much more often black women than Asian (non-Indian) men do. As a matter of fact, the case that challenged the illegality of mixed-race marriages in some Southern States even after WW2, was initiated by a couple where the husband was White and the wife was Black. Look it up, if you are truly interested. It was in 1967. I don't remember the name of the case. You might find this site interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interracial_marriage_in_the_United_States.
Can you imagine all the scents and aromas coming from all those kitchens of mixed marriages? Oh, those wonderful dishes that must have evolved from those hearths...

"I know I am being politically incorrect when I ask this: How many white or Asian men would like to marry black women even if the above is not the case?"

25% of American blacks have white genes. Most of it coming from the Father's side. So white men having been keeping black mistresses ever since the first female slaves stepped off the boot from Africa.]

How do you know it was through "keeping black mistresses"? How about rape? The Blacks were slaves at the time. Their young masters could rape them with impunity.

"I know I am being politically incorrect when I ask this: How many white or Asian men would like to marry black women even if the above is not the case?"

25% of American blacks have white genes. Most of it coming from the Father's side. So white men having been keeping black mistresses ever since the first female slaves stepped off the boot from Africa.

"The number of mainland Chinese nationals who migrated to the Philippines more than doubled in 2010, according to the Bureau of Immigration.

Immigration Alien Registration division assistant chief Ferdinand Arbas said the number of Chinese living in the country went up from 30,809 in 2009 to 61,372 in 2010.

The Chinese have thus dislodged the Koreans as the top foreign citizens who choose the Philippines as their second home.

The geographic and cultural proximity of China to the Philippines, and the fact that Filipino-Chinese communities are firmly established in the country, may account for the rise of Chinese immigrants here.

Majority of the Chinese and Korean migrants are students, businessmen, and missionaries who prefer Metro Manila, with its high-rise condominiums and cheap apartments."

"U.S. Department of Justice requires access Twitter data
Online searches by the secret trial: A U.S. court has ordered that Twitter has to give the Justice Department, all user data WikiLeaks of prominent supporters. Affected just learned of the decision - they have ten days to self-defense."
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