The Injil Corrupted! What does the Qur’an say?

I have many Muslim friends. And because I am also a believer in Allah (God), and a follower of the Injil (Gospel) I usually have regular conversations with my Muslim friends about beliefs and faith. In a real sense there is so much we have in common. Yet almost without exception in my conversations I hear the claim that the Injil (and zabur and Taurat which make up al kitab = Bible) is corrupted, or has been changed, so that the message we read today is degraded and full of errors from what was first inspired and written by the prophets and disciples of Allah. Now this is an important complaint, since it would mean that we cannot trust the Bible as read today to reveal Allah’s truth. I read and study both the Bible (al kitab) and the English translation of the Holy Qur’an, and have started to study the Sunnah. What I find startling is that this attitude against the Bible, though so common today, I do not find it in al Qur’an. In fact, it startled me how seriously the Holy Qur’an takes the Bible. I want to briefly show what I mean. (In English I use Yusuf Ali’s translation of the Holy Qu’ran)

What the Qur’an says about the Bible (al Kitab)

Say: “O People of the Book! ye have no ground to stand upon unless ye stand fast by the Law, the Gospel, and all the revelation that has come to you from your Lord.” It is the revelation that cometh to thee from thy Lord, that increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Surah 5:68 Maida (The Table) (See also 4:136)

If thou art in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt. Surah 10:94 Yunus (Jonah)

I note that this declares that the revelation given to the ‘People of the Book’ (Christians and Jews) came from Allah. Now my Muslim friends say this applies only to the original revelation given, but since the original has been corrupted it does not apply to the scriptures of today. But the 2nd ayah talks about those who ‘have been reading’ (in the present tense not past tense as in ‘had read’) the Bible. It is not talking about the original revelation, but the scriptures from the time when al Qur’an was revealed. This was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) over a period of years around 600 A.D. So this passage approves the Bible (Taurat, Zabur and Injil) as it existed in 600 A.D. Other passages are similar. Consider:

And before thee also the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: if ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. Surah 16:43 An-Nahl (the Bee)

Before thee, also, the apostles We sent were but men, to whom We granted inspiration: If ye realise this not, ask of those who possess the Message. Surah 21:7 Al-Anbiya’ (The Prophets)

These speak of the apostles that preceded the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). But, crucially, they affirm that the messages given by God to these apostles/prophets were still in possession (at 600 AD ) by their followers. The revelation as originally given had not been corrupted by the Prophet Muhammad’s (PBUH) time.

The Holy Quran says that Allah’s Words cannot be changed

But in a stronger sense, even the possibility of al kitab’s corruption/change is not supported by the Holy Quran. Keep in mind Maida 5:68 (The Law …The Gospel … is revelation that has come from the LORD), and consider the following:

Rejected were the apostles before thee: with patience and constancy they bore their rejection and their wrongs, until Our aid did reach them: there is none that can alter the words (and decrees) of Allah. Already hast thou received some account of those apostles. Surah 6:34 Al-An‘am (Cattle)

The word of thy Lord doth find its fulfilment in truth and in justice: None can change His words: for He is the one who heareth and knoweth all. Surah 6:115 Al-An‘am (Cattle)

For them are glad tidings, in the life of the present and in the Hereafter; no change can there be in the words of Allah. This is indeed the supreme felicity. Surah 10:64 Yunus (Jonah)

And recite (and teach) what has been revealed to thee of the Book of thy Lord: none can change His Words, Surah 18:27 Al-Kahf (The Cave)

So, if we agree that the prophets preceding Muhammad (PBUH) were given revelation by Allah (as Maida 5:68-69 said), and since these passages, many times over, say very clearly that no one can change Allah’s Words, how then can one believe that the words of Taurat, Zabur and Injil (i.e. al kitab = the Bible) was corrupted or changed by men? It would require a denial of the Qur’an itself to believe that the Bible has been corrupted or changed.

As a matter of fact, this idea of judging various kinds of revelation from God as better or worse than others, though widely believed, is not supported in the Qur’an.

Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam).” Surah 2:136 Al-Baqara (The Cow) (See also 2:285).

So there should be no difference in how we treat all the revelations. This would have to include our study of them. In other words, we should study all the Books. In fact I urge Christians to study the Qur’an as I urge Muslims to study the Bible.

To study these books takes time and courage. Lots of questions will be raised. Surely though this is a worthwhile use of our time here on earth – to learn from all the books which the prophets have revealed. I know that for me, though it has taken time and courage for me to study all the Holy Books, and it has raised many questions in my mind, it has been a rewarding experience and I have felt Allah’s blessing on me in it. I hope you will continue to explore some of the articles and lessons on this website. Perhaps a good place to start is the article on what the haddiths and the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) thought about and used the Taurat, Zabur and Injil (the books that make up al kitab = the Bible). The link to this article is here. If you have a scientific interest in how the reliability of all ancient books are determined, and whether the Bible is considered reliable or corrupted from this scientific point-of-view see the article here.

The changes are impossible only in Quran, but not in Tuawrat, Injil or other books due to Allah Mentioned in Holy Quran that i save this Book(Holy Quran) and also Quran is only the book that to be memorized, not the other books. Hope to study more and get more information about Holy Quran.

Salaam Hasib. Thank you for your thoughts. You should know though that the command and example to memorize is for all the books. In the Taurat, it is commanded that “These commandments that I (Allah) give you today are to be upon your hearts … Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads” (Deuteronomy 6:6-8). In the Zabur it says “I have hidden Your Word in my heart that I might not sin against you” (Psalm 119:11). And Isa Al Masih, when tempted by the Devil quoted scripture – meaning he had memorized it previously. So these commands and examples are there for the previous Books as well. Of course I am familiar with examples and commands to memorize the Qur’an. So, taken all together this illustrates the principle given in Qur’an that (Surat 2:285) “We make no distinction between one and another of his apostles” You can see a more detailed thought on this in my article al-injil.net/blog/2012/06/01/does-the-quran-replace-the-bible-what-does-the-quran-say’

When the quran came to existence all the other books were made invalid by Allah because other books were sent to individually for each prophet. But the quran was sent as one and its the complete perfect book. Also to the other books a lot of changes were made by the people and it ‘was’ corrupted. Allah promised to protect the Quran. If u read the quran properly you will see that it says when the quran was sent all the other books became invalid.

Thank you so much for your comment. Truly it is a privilege for us in this day of much evil to discuss and learn about the Books. You should know something about the books of Taurat, Zabur and Injil though. Each of these books (which make up the Bible) are themselves composed of several books. THey are like libraries each containing many Holy Books. And each of these books were also ‘sent as one’ and not just for each prophet but for all peoples. For example, in my recently posted Sign of Ibrahim Part 3 we look at the sacrifice of his son and we see that in that book of the Taurat (the book of Genesis) written by Musa that there is a promise for all nations. It says “and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed me.” (Genesis 22:18) (the post is here). In Zabur (which we have not looked at yet) Dawood writes about ‘all nations’ in Psalm 2. In the Injil, Isa al Masih – at the end of Matthew says “… Therefore go and make disciples of all nations …”. So the scope is always universal to all nations.

As to whether ‘alot of changes were made’ I know that this is a point of debate. But not for Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). I show in the post about Sunnah (http://al-injil.net/blog/2012/04/24/the-injil-corrupted-what-does-the-sunnah-say) that there are haddith that clearly tell us that he viewed these books as true. There are haddith where he says expresses his belief in Taurat that existed in his day. And we know from the science of textual criticism that the books have not changed since his day. In fact the scientific study of textual criticism strongly supports that the Bible has not at all been corrupted. And these are for scientific reasons, not religious. Please see my article at http://al-injil.net/blog/2012/07/31/the-science-of-textual-criticism-to-see-if-the-bible-is-corrupted-or-not/ and see my video in that article for more information. This topic is too important to let rumour and hearsay determine what we believe. We need to base our verdict on evidence.

Look, if you don’t like Islam, no need. But mere blaming is just so mean. When it is said that as soon as a new scripture is given to a nation, the previous scriptures are invalid, you are arguing with the invalid scriptures , which is nothing but stupidity.
Hate Islam is your right but blaming for nothing could be avoided.

Hi Shahriar
Thanks for contributing your opinion to the discussions. Now I am not sure why you think that I ‘hate Islam’. If there is something offensive against Islam that I have written I am sorry. Now I do know that some things I have written have different points-of-view and some discussion. But this is also the fact when people discuss meaning and application of certain haddiths and there is debate between different schools of interpretation of shariah law. Just because there are different points-of-view does not mean there is hate.
Perhaps you feel this way because in my articles I know I have a strong love for the Injil. But why should love for Injil translate into hate for Islam? The Injil is ‘good news’. I certainly am thankful that I was able to become informed about it.

Friends, We Muslim accept and believe all Fuor books which was send Allah messengers, the reason why only read Quran is that this is the complete book which contains all information ( messages ) which on other 3 books and more added, so instead of reading all if you spend time on Quran every thing will be clear to you in sha allah, there wouldn’t be any question left for you.

Salam alaikum Mustafa
Thank you for taking the time to include your thoughts on this discussion. I understand what you are saying. But still I am not so sure that what you say agrees with the Prophets. For example in my post on whether the Qur’an replaces the Bible or not I show the following ayat from the Qur’an

Say ye: “We believe in God, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma’il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam).” (Surat 2:136 – The Cow)

It seems to me that you are in fact making a difference between the books whereas it says quite clearly here that we should not make such a difference. I know that we are all raised and taught with a particular point-of-view, but it is good to always test this point-of-view we are raised with. Perhaps study carefully this post and then you can see if you still think that it is best to not study all the revealed Books. Perhaps it is through all the books that Allah will indeed ‘guide all of us to the right path’. But thanks again for your thoughts, they are appreciated.

Hello Ragnar, you have done alot of conversation with various sort of people whatever . In muslims creed that Isa you people say jesus peace be upon him not died he was just taken by ALLAH up on to the sky . And there is a predection from judgement day is that in the last era ISA pbuh again will revel in this world as a ummati of MUHAMMAD peace be upon him So what is your openion that he will be following the same book bible or he will be follower of QURAN that time .

Salam Muhammad
Great question actually. No ayat from Qur’an come to my mind when we deal with the return of Isa (pbuh), but it could be that I missed them since I was not thinking of eschatology in my studies. So it seems I am uninformed about what the Qur’an says about that. Are there some ayat you would recommend? It is in the studying of the Books that I try to base my opinions.

Sorry I have not been able to dialogue with you. Been busy… Anyways I have posted the ayat you referenced from Qur’an. But as I read them they say nothing of what you say that they say. You said “The verses stated explicitly that Isa[P] is dead and those who died will not be back only on the day of judjement.”). Take a look.(this is Yusuf Ali)

003.144 Muhammad is no more than an apostle: many Were the apostle that passed
away before him. If he died or were slain, will ye then Turn back on your heels? If
any did turn back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to God; but God (on the
other hand) will swiftly reward those who (serve Him) with gratitude.

021.034 We granted not to any man before thee permanent life (here): if then thou
shouldst die, would they live permanently?

021.035 Every soul shall have a taste of death: and We test you by evil and by good
by way of trial. to Us must ye return.

The first ayah (3:144)is discussing the prophet Muhammad not Isa (pbut). Yusu ali commentary (#460) says of this ayah “this verse primarily applies to the battle of Uhud, in the course of which a cry was raised that the apostle of allah was slain…” So this ayah is talking not at all about isa (pbuh)
The second ayat says that everyone has died and that everyone shall taste death. Exactly! Now the discussions I usually hear from my Muslim friends is that Isa (pbuh) never died, but went directly to heaven. These ayah, as you say, contradict this by saying all (inc. prophets) die. Therefore by extension Isa (pbuh) also died. The injil affirms and declares this very clearly. So no contradiction between 21:34-35 and injil – in fact perfect agreement. It seems to me that you are advocating that isa (Pbuh) is still dead. I have never heard this theory before (except from atheists/materialists who believe at death everything is over).

This brings up the whole topic of what is acceptable to believe. We think that most of our beliefs come from study of the Holy books. I think actually that most everybody just believes what they are taught without looking into the Books a great deal. If they do look into the Book they look only from the point-of-view they have already been taught, not to look for what the Book actually teaches. This is why it is so healthy for all believers, to read and study the Books and listen to the messages therein with an open mind.

“Do they think that they will be left alone on saying, ‘We believe and that they will not be tested’? For sure we will test them as we have tested those who came before them, to show (them) the truthful of the honest and the liars in their falsehood.”
[Quran 29:2-3]
These verses are from HOly quran and ı m also sendıng u a link please watch thıs link carefully u ll get all what ı mean.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk61hslLHlw
hope u wıll get all the ans ın thıs lecture and what we thınk about other relıgıons

Salam Bro,
The Glorious Quran [02:79] – this verse is actually about the Gospel of Isa [P]. The Gospel is acutally a Zabur [Canon] of the Book [FURQAN / OT – HQ;03:04] and those who have no knowlege of the Book [UMMIYUNN], created a book and said that it was from ALLAH. Plz refer to the Creed Of Nicea – AD325.

And again HQ – 03:78 – This verse is about The Greeks when they change the original Torah into The Greek language and the tranSlation had been altered other than what is the original

Salam again Saleh
You have zeal, I give you that 🙂 But, any and all prophets aside, you misunderstand facts of history. I have no great love for Constantine and the Council of Nicaea. But no ‘book’ was created then. How do I know? Because we have copies in museums around the world today of manuscripts of books in the Bible (al-Kitab) that come hundreds of years before Nicaea. To take just one such manuscript for example, the Bodmer papyrus (which exists today) is dated from 150-200AD. So the council of Nicaea in 325AD could not possibly create a book, a copy of which already was in existence by 150AD – almost 200 years before 325AD. That makes no sense – and it is not a question of religion but of facts of history. Can I encourage you to view the videos in my article on the scientific reasons why the Bible is reliable. You can still chose to believe The Bible (al -kitab) is not a reliable book, but you will need to come up with better reasons.
Regarding, the Greeks changing the Torah in the Greek language. You are referring to the Septuagint – the Greek translation of the Hebrew Torah which was made in 200 BC. But irregardless if the translation is good or bad, it does not change the original language. I read the Yusuf Ali translation of the Qur’an into English. Some people tell me he made a bad translation. Let me concede the point. But even if he did a bad translation – does that affect the arabic Qur’an? Of course not. The only way someone can even possibly judge that Yusuf Ali did a good or bad translation is to compare it back to the original Arabic Qur’an. In the exact same way, the Septuagint was a translation of the Hebrew Torah. But they did not throw away all the Hebrew Torahs after the translation. We still have the copies. They are called the Dead Sea Scrolls. Please see my 2nd video in the Post on the science of Textual criticism. The 2nd video (it is short) talks about these Hebrew Scrolls. And my article here on my other website talks about the Septuagint. My only appeal is that you become informed about the basic facts. Everyone should believe how they want, but it is good to be informed. (and here is a link to an article I wrote on Constantine and Nicaea Creed)

Salaam.
No Sorry. By ‘original’ I meant (and mean) the Quran as revealed in Arabic. There is only one. But then we have Quranic translations into other languages – like Yusuf Ali which is what I use. So the point I am making is that for anyone to even be able to judge whether Yusuf Ali has done a good job of translating or not they must compare with the arabic – the quran as revealed originally.

All the praises and thanks be to Allaah, Sustainer of the Universe, and blessing and salutation to be the most distinguish of the Messengers and foremost among the Prophets, our Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allaah be on him and on his wives, children and Companions.

This treatise includes:

Proof that Dead Sea Scrolls were fraudulently deposited and are not authentic.
Highly questionable surviving Masoretic text of Old Testament after the introduction of vowel and accent marks.
Bible’s Missing Books.
Hebrew was not the Language of Old Testament.

Judeo-Christian Trojan horse (false claim) that the recovered fragments’ disagreement with the Masoretic text must be because they were deposited in Qumran prior to 1st Jewish revolt (66-70 C.E.), since that is when the nearby town of Khirbet Qumran was decimated by Roman troops; whereas fragments agreeing with the Masoretic text come from the cave at Wadi Murraba’at which was sealed after the Bar Kochba (2nd Jewish revolt) in 135 C.E. This cock-a-hoop is supposed to implicate that the text of the Old Testament was standardized somewhere between 70-135 C.E. according to this cock-and-bull story. But the readers may be shocked to learn the truth that has so far been successfully concealed by the Judeo-Christian sides, since the greatest problem that confronts the Judeo-Christian scholars in dating these caves is the existence of Arabic fragments which were found in the same cave of Wadi Murraba’at. Of these Arabic fragments, one has a clear Hijrah dating 327 A.H. (938 C.E.) This fragment reads:

English translation of the above quoted one of the fragments is cited below in purple text.

“In the name of Allaah Most Gracious Most Merciful

I have collected from the inheritors of Abu Ghazzan the taxes that were due on the Sunan property, totaling one-third and one-eighth of one Dinar for the year seven and twenty and three hundred (327 A.H. {938 C.E.}) Written by Ibrahim bin Hammaz in the month of Rabi al-Awwal of this same year, and I have placed my faith in Allaah.”

A total of seven Arabic fragments have been reproduced in the A Facsimile Edition of the Dead Sea Scrolls, the one cited by me above is the most legible and complete. However, there are many other Arabic fragments found in the same cave as well, which the authors have not included in this edition. One of them is reported to be quite lengthy. The discovery of Arabic manuscripts and/or fragments are evidence that:

The so-called claim of depositing the scrolls and/or fragments centuries ago and sealing the cave/s is NOT true.
The fact is that absolutely none of the Old Testament’s fragments can be pigeonholed with absolute certainty into any of the two time frames i.e. 66-70 C.E. and/or 132-135 C.E.
Discovery of Arabic fragments from the 10th century found within these caves lead to only single logical conclusion that these so-called fragments were fraudulently deposited by the Jews and/or Christians anytime until their alleged discovery.
Excavation from the 1950s already concluded that these caves were repeatedly inhabited.

Surviving Masoretic text of Old Testament after the introduction of vowel and accent marks.

The Masoretic text alludes to the end product, an endeavor in which the vowel and accent marks were introduced into the vowel-less, consonantal body of the Hebrew Bible in the Middle Ages {complete and/or fragmentary is only (31) thirty-one dating from the late 9th century to 1100 C.E.} {See, Oxford Companion to the Bible, p. 501} At this stage I must point out the Judeo-Christian forgery and/or hypocrisy for questioning the diacritics’ of the Glorious Qur’aan that was inevitable to help the non-Arabic Muslim converts to correctly read and/or pronounce the Qur’aanic Arabic text. This will also lead me to ask Christianized Muslims who due to their sheer ignorance consider Bible the word of God and/or buys the Christian missionaries lies using Glorious Qur’aan 5:48, that how that can be true and/or Glorious Qur’aan can mention the Bible which came to existence centuries after the revelation of Glorious Qur’aan. According to the facts cited above OT even came into being some time in 10th century. As a matter of fact I must point out that the Jewish scholars established the text of the Old Testament in the tenth century actively destroying earlier manuscripts, which were not original as well. Since the Tawrat (Torah) was destroyed with the destruction of 1st temple (586 B.C.)

Missing Books of the Bible! Where are these books, and why are they missing?

According to the Bible itself, following books are missing, if the Bible is word of God how that can happen?

1. The Book of the Wars of the Lord: We can read about this book in (Bible) Numbers 21:14.

2. The Book of Jasher: We read about this book in Joshua 10:13. This book is also mentioned in II Samuel, 1:18.

3. Three books of Solomon: The first book contained one thousand and five Psalms, the second described the history of creation, and the third consisted of three thousand Proverbs. This book is mentioned in I Kings 4:32.

4. The Book of Manners of the Kingdom: We find the mention of this missing book in I Samuel 10:25.

5. The History of Samuel the Seer: (6) The History of Prophet Nathan (7) The Book of Gad the Seer: These three missing books (5, 6, & 7) are mentioned in I Chronicles 29:29.

8. The Book of Shemiah, the Prophet: (9) The Book of Iddo, the Seer: Both (8 & 9) books are mentioned in II Chronicles 12:15.

10. The Prophecy of Ahijah (11) The Visions of Iddo, the Seer: These two books (10 & 11) are mentioned in II Chronicles 9:29. The books of Iddo and Nathan are also mentioned in this verse.

12. The Book of Jehu, the son of Hanani: This book is mentioned in II Chronicles 20:24.

13. The Book of Isaiah, the Prophet: This book consisted of complete accounts of Uzziah. It is mentioned in II Chronicles 26:22.

14. The Book of Visions of Isaiah: This lost book contained the complete accounts of Hezekiah and is mentioned in II Chronicles 32:32.

15. The Lamentation of Jeremiah: This lost book consisted of Jeremiah’s lamentation for Josiah, and is described in II Chronicles 35:25.

16. The Book of Chronicles: This missing book is mentioned in Nehemiah 12:23. (This book is not included in the present books. This is another book, which does not exist today)

17. The Book of Covenant of Moses: This missing book is mentioned in Exodus 24:7.

18. The Book of the Acts of Solomon: We find the mention of this book in I Kings 11:14.

Everyone is entitled to his or her opinion, but it is best if the opinion is founded on knowledge. Please understand the West – almost all people here are secular – they believe in no God and no religion. What drives them is scientific knowledge. So the scholars investigating the Dead Sea Scrolls are not by-and-large Christians or Jews. They date the DSS by radio-carbon dating. The Qumrum community (where the scrolls were found) existed for a couple of centuries and these are documents of this community. That is why there are date ranges. Some manuscripts come from 200 BC and some up to 70AD when the community was destroyed by the Romans. Those that contain the al kitab are from 200-100 BC. You may choose not to accept this evidence, and that certainly is your free choice, but it is good to be at least informed about the DSSs and the basis for the dating of them, and what they say and contain, and the significance of them before one rejects them. Read in Wikipedia at least.

Now when you say that the Masoretic text was changed by introduction of vowels please understand that the same situation exists for Arabic Qur’an. The earliest Qur’an manuscripts have no vowels. They were inserted later. This was true of all ancient semitic languages (like Hebrew and Arabic). To argue the way you are is like trying to saw a branch off the tree while you are sitting on that same branch. If the sawing is successful you fall down with the branch. But we do have the Greek translation of Old Testament (made 200 BC – same time as DSSs). The Greek had complete and voweled words. So from that, in case you doubt the addition of vowels, we can verify the content of the text – and it matches both the Masoretic text and the DSS.
Please see my articles here and here on the Septuagint.

You talk about the ‘missing’ books and therefore somehow think that this denigrates the Book that we have (al kitab). So imagine an ‘atheist’ making this same argument against Qur’an. Because the Qur’an says:

002.213 Mankind was one single nation, and God sent Messengers with glad tidings and warnings;

This is talking about the time before Abraham (pbuh) when everyone spoke the same language. Who were these messengers? We do not know their names. Their messages are no longer with us. Does the loss of these messages from these messengers in anyway disprove or show that the Qur’an is invalid? Of course not. But you are saying exactly that. There are old messages that the al-kitab talks about. We do not have them anymore. So what does that have to do with the al-kitab we have today? Nothing! Exactly like the fact we do not know today who these messengers back in the one-language day, nor are the messages preserved (like those of al-kitab and Qur’an are) do not affect the value of Qur’an in any way.

The Glorious Quran – 05:78-79 – The verse explain explicitly why ALLAH curse The Jews of the tongue of David [P] and Isa [P]. It was after these prophets that their people respectively altered the words of ALLAH.

The Torah that was with the Arabs [The people of The Last Prophet – Muhammad (P)], to a certain extent, was not corrupted. The Holy Quran is saying about this.

I think you are referring to this ayah which I have copied from Yusuf ali

“Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected
Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed
and persisted in excesses. 5:81

But notice why they are cursed. It is because they ‘disobeyed’. The ayah you refer to says nothing about the Jews ‘altering the words’ as you say. I don’t deny that you believe that they altered the words, but you must be getting this belief from something else, and this something else is causing you to read this into this ayah because in point of fact it says nothing about them ‘altering words’ But you are correct in that they did receive Curses and Blessings. You can read here what these were.

Curses were pronouced on those among the children of israel who rejected faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary including they disobeyed and trangresses
They do not forbid the iniquities which they committed. Evil were the deeds which they did.
See many of them in charge who disbelieve, misery made them, themselves to the wrath of ALLAH. On them is the torment they will abide.

The above Quranic verse 80 – tell us that many of them who is in charge disbeleive. Were this people priest / rabbi? Did they altered The AlKitab

NT
“Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, Hypocrites! for ye pay tithes of mint, anise and cumin and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy and faith” (Matthew 23:23).

Saleh
I think you must agree that there is a world of difference between ‘disobeying’ the Book and ‘Changing’ it. I know so many Muslims who disobey. Don’t you? And I know Christians who disobey. But none of these people have ‘changed’ the Book, Qur’an or al-kitab. Being a ‘hypocrite’ is to NOT do what you preach. So if I preach to be honest but at the same time I steal I am a hypocrite. Isa al masih(pbuh) never accused them of ‘changing’ anything, but of being hypocrites.
And if you read my article on the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) you will also see that he accepted the Taurat as written in his day (600 AD) even though he found that the Jews did not obey the Taurat.

Salaam again Saleh
Now I do not claim to be an expert on the Qur’an. But I am a student of it and I do read it carefully. So I will repeat your first statements and just follow with some quotes that I know from Qur’an.
You say
“The Glorious Quran mention
1. That the Israelites were NOT descended from Abraham [P]. The Bible says otherwise.”
So you say, that the Qur’an says that Israelites are not from Abraham (pbuh). But the Qur’an says:
003.093 All food was lawful to the Children of Israel, except what Israel Made unlawful for itself, before the Law (of Moses) was revealed. Say: “Bring ye the Law and study it, if ye be men of truth.”

You will see here that the ‘children of Israel’ are that because they come from a man called ‘Israel’. Who was he? We know he came before Moses (Musa – pbuh) who gave the Book (Taurat) to the same children of Israel (these ayat just below)

017.002 We gave Moses the Book, and made it a Guide to the Children of Israel, (commanding): “Take not other than Me as Disposer of (your) affairs.”

So who was the man Israel from whom the children of Israel came? It says below. It starts with Adam (pbuh). One of the descendants of Adam was Noah (pbuh) and one of the descendants of Noah was Abraham (pbuh). And one of the descendants (his grandson) was Israel (through Abraham’s son Isaac. So it went Abraham -> Isaac ->Israel). Thus the children of Israelmust be descendants of Abraham. The next ayah says that Jesus (Isa –pbuh) spoke to the ‘Children of Israel’. But we also know that he spoke to the Jews. That is because Jews are the Children of Israel. They mean the same like the words ‘man’ and ‘adult human male’ mean the same thing.

019.058 Those were some of the prophets on whom God did bestow His Grace,- of the posterity of Adam, and of those who We carried (in the Ark) with Noah, and of the posterity of Abraham and Israel of those whom We guided and chose. Whenever the Signs of (God) Most Gracious were rehearsed to them, they would fall down in prostrate adoration and in tears.
061.014 O ye who believe! Be ye helpers of God: As said Jesus the son of Mary to the Disciples, “Who will be my helpers to (the work of) God?” Said the disciples, “We are God’s helpers!” then a portion of the Children of Israel believed, and a portion disbelieved: But We gave power to those who believed, against their enemies, and they became the ones that prevailed.

So how is Israel coming from Abraham through Isaac? Most think it is Jacob as it says in ayah below

002.132 And this was the legacy that Abraham left to his sons, and so did Jacob; “Oh my sons! God hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except in the Faith of Islam.”

002.133 Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship Thy God and the God of thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma’il and Isaac,- the one (True) God: To Him we bow (in Islam).”

So Jacob is descended from Abraham and so is Israel. Why? After an encounter with God Jacob was given another name – Israel. So Jacob = Israel. They are the same person. We see this in the story of Joseph (Yusuf- pbuh). He went to Egypt and the Qur’an tells us that he had a conversation with his father (Jacob) who was descendant of Abraham. Please read.

012.004 Behold! Joseph said to his father: “O my father! I did see eleven stars and the sun and the moon: I saw them prostrate themselves to me!”
012.005 Said (the father): “My (dear) little son! relate not thy vision to thy brothers, lest they concoct a plot against thee: for Satan is to man an avowed enemy!
012.006 “Thus will thy Lord choose thee and teach thee the interpretation of stories (and events) and perfect His favour to thee and to the posterity of Jacob – even as He perfected it to thy fathers Abraham and Isaac aforetime! for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.”

These ayat talk about the ‘posterity of Jacob’ That is exactly the same as ‘children of Israel’. With Joseph the Children of Israel moved to Egypt and much later the prophet Moses (Musa – pbuh) led them out of Egypt and gave them the Law (Taurat). All this shows that the Children of Israel are in fact affirmed by the Qur’an to be descendants of Abraham.

Now speaking of Egypt your point 2 is:
You say
“The Glorious Quran mention …
2. That the Israelites were enslaved by the Babylonians and not Egytian.”
But the Qur’an says

010.087 We inspired Moses and his brother with this Message: “Provide dwellings for your people in Egypt, make your dwellings into places of worship, and establish regular prayers: and give glad tidings to those who believe!”
010.088 Moses prayed: “Our Lord! Thou hast indeed bestowed on Pharaoh and his chiefs splendour and wealth in the life of the present, and so, Our Lord, they mislead (men) from Thy Path. Deface our Lord, the features of their wealth, and send hardness to their hearts, so they will not believe until they see the grievous penalty.”

043.051 And Pharaoh proclaimed among his people, saying: “O my people! Does not the dominion of Egypt belong to me, (witness) these streams flowing underneath my (palace)? What! see ye not then?
043.052 “Am I not better than this (Moses), who is a contemptible wretch and can scarcely express himself clearly?

002.047 Children of Israel! call to mind the (special) favour which I bestowed upon you, and that I preferred you to all other (for My Message)….
002.049 And remember, We delivered you from the people of Pharaoh: They set you hard tasks and punishments, slaughtered your sons and let your women-folk live; therein was a tremendous trial from your Lord.

010.090 We took the Children of Israel across the sea: Pharaoh and his hosts followed them in insolence and spite. At length, when overwhelmed with the flood, he said: “I believe that there is no god except Him Whom the Children of Israel believe in: I am of those who submit (to God in Islam).”

017.101 To Moses We did give Nine Clear Sings: As the Children of Israel: when he came to them, Pharaoh said to him: “O Moses! I consider thee, indeed, to have been worked upon by sorcery!

020.078 Then Pharaoh pursued them with his forces, but the waters completely overwhelmed them and covered them up.
020.079 Pharaoh led his people astray instead of leading them aright.

020.080 O ye Children of Israel! We delivered you from your enemy, and We made a Covenant with you on the right side of Mount (Sinai), and We sent down to you Manna and quails:

044.030 We did deliver aforetime the Children of Israel from humiliating Punishment,
044.031 Inflicted by Pharaoh, for he was arrogant (even) among inordinate transgressors.

So actually I am not sure why you are trying to insist that the Qur’an teaches that Children of Israel are not from Abraham and these Israelites were not in Egypt. These questions should not be confusing because the Qur’an is quite clear about them. And these teachings agree exactly with the Taurat in al kitab.
May I encourage you to read the “Signs from Taurat-Qur’an”. This will help inform you straight from the Books so you can be informed of these things. There is nothing for you to lose in that.
These signs cover many of these points and will give a good historical background in what the Books teach about the time of Abraham (pbuh), Musa (pbuh) and the other prophets from this period.

Assalam Brothers
I am a muslim I have a question: how many of Prophets ALLAH has Send? and what is the difference between a Prophet and a Messager excuse me i am not very good in english but i hop that you anderstand me

Salaam Oumar
Good question. I think that both Qur’an and al kitab mention names of certain prophets (Abraham, Musa etc.) but also indicates that there were others whom we do not know of today. So there is no clear number of Prophets sent.
I think that the difference between a messenger and a prophet depends on your point-of-view. If I read a message in al kitab or Qur’an (example warning of the coming judgment Day) and then relay that warning to a friend of mine I could be considered a ‘messenger’. But it is not a message that I received. That is a distinction I find helpful. Good question

more than 300 prophets were sent but 25prophets were mentioned in the HOLLY BOOK OF ALLAH (QUR AN)
And wht the jewish people wnts is third world wor which will greatlly looses the power of christ over the world. let them stop abusing the prophets. we now and they now no weapon will make sanse in the battle
third world war will start after America fights wth IRAN all muslim will join hand agenist christ. and ALLAH suports those in the bath of prophet mohammed (scw)

Hi Mohamed
Thank you for your comments. But I must admit that I am abit puzzled by them. Since you say that ’25 prophets were mentioned in the Holy Book Quran’ then you must accept that at least Ibrahim, Musa, Dawood and Isa (PBUT) had prophetic messages – and thus should be followed. And since Isa is the Christ (according to both injil and Quran) why would you say that ‘all muslim will join hand against Christ’? You are saying that you want to fight against the Masih? Now Prophet Dawood (PBUH) did say in Zaboor long ago that many peoples would one day far in the future want to join hands against the Christ – this very thing you are suggesting. But Prophet Dawood, again in Zabur, warned that this would happen but advised instead that we all should be wise and take refuge in the Masih rather than oppose him. There is much that is puzzling about politics that I do not understand, but it would be foolish, in my opinion, to use that as a reason to be against Masih. Would it not be better, given (as you say) all the wars and all that is said and done against prophets today, to use that as a motivation to understand their messages better, rather than be against them?

I am curious to know you have a real respect for Quran and Allah, as well as Injeel. I am not an expert in religion but a curious stude int, like you. I find it difficult to accept anything on the face-value. so I do my own study. the thing i would like to say about the corruption in the bible is, all the God’s message are distorted by the followers of it , especially the learned people, by trying to make the message plan and simple. they put brackets, adds ideas etc, which later become the message, wheares its not the message. for example Quran is not changed, but there are many Hadith, the attributed sayings of Prophet Muhamed that explains the verse that are contrary to the original message. these Hadith must be the fabricated ones, but the majority of the scholars do believe in them, and justify them, only because the learned people who lived before them have also accepted them. the same goes with Torah, Mishna and Tulmud explains the Torah in the similar way. Bible is also written centuries later, like Hadith collectors did it. the original message of the Jesus, Moses and All others were the Oneness of God, Obedience to Him, and Good conduct towards self and others. there is a universal understanding of what is moral, good and ethical. this is how our minds are guided. but we seek after minutes details. we r never content with the guidence, When God commanded Israelities to slay a cow, they asked several questions to make it plan. but the divine intention is when a command is given do it the best of our ability, according to the means available. if we make things too clear, it would become difficult. i just wanted to express my curioucity in ur work and thougth of sharing my view though not related to the subject much. good luck and God says, if you seek Him , you shall find Him.

Hi Adam
Thank you for your insightful comments. I can see that you have spent some good time in developing your convictions. I do not disagree with the suspicions you raise. Like you say the Talmud and Mishna are commentaries written be scholars giving their opinions quite a long time after the events in question. In fact the rabbis who wrote the Talmud and Mishna did not claim to be inspired in any way. But the prophets who received the messages from Allah that are in Taurat and Zabur did claim to be inspired this way. And the Qur’an agrees that these prophets were inspired. So the Prophet Musa (pbuh) is not writing a commentary as a scholar. He is receiving revelation from God and writing it down. This is why I treat the Taurat differently than the Talmud and Mishna. And if you read the prophet Musa (pbuh) in Taurat you will see that he does not say ‘do it to the best of our ability, according to the means available’ as you say. Please read this article on the level of obedience required by the Taurat. It is exact. And because it is so difficult God provided a means to show His mercy in the sacrifice of the cow that you mention. My article on this explains why God arranged for this sacrifice. I hope you read these two articles. The taurat was written by Musa (pbuh), not ‘centuries later’. Messages inspired by Allah should be treated differently than mere scholarly comments.

THE INJEEL THAT ALMIGHTY TALK ABOUT ? IS THE INJEEL OF JESUS PBUH , NOT THE INJEEL OF JOHN ,MATHEW,MARC AND LUC SO WE BELIEVE AS MUSLIM THAT INJEEL OF JESUS PBUH WAS LOST ..AND THE GOSPEL OF JOHN MATHEW MARC AND LUC ARE NOT DIVINE AND HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE GOSPEL OF JESUS PBUH ……THE WHOLE CONCEPT OF YOUR RELIGION IS WRONG..

Thank you for taking the time to leave your comment. I understand that we all ‘believe’ certain things. But often what we ‘believe’ does not come from the Book. I do answer this very question you raise in my article on whether the injil of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John is the original. I would encourage you to read it. I have no desire to force a change in anyone’s beliefs but to create opportunities to gain understanding and become informed. THen, whatever ‘beliefs’ one has are built on a more secure foundation. I hope you will read this article.

Hello!
Hope you are fine and doing well(Asalamul-alaikom)!
Please make attention to my words, If you like the new version of an educational book that you like so please Once read the latest version of skiey book(HQ).
thanks for your attention!
Truly,
Hope that god look you(Allah Hafiz)

I have read your post and your conclusion is true if we do NOT consider some facts I will outline below:

In addition to the facts that Allah has revealed Injil to Isa son of Maryam, says that no one can change His Words (decisions), and orders that all Muslims have to believe in all messengers and the books, He also states in the Quran that:

1) Ali-Imran 187 : And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it(!); but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!

2) Baqara 146: The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth(!) which they themselves know.

3) Baqara 79: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands(!), and then say:”This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

4) Maida 13: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places(!) and forget(!) a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

So, Allah says that People of the Book took a true revelation from God, and they were ordered to spread Allah’s word and make it clear to the mankind. But those who made a covenant, instead, hided the truth. Whereas, some others wrote a book themselves and claimed that their book was from Allah! And others read/translated/taught the Word in other way, or misspelled so that the initial meaning have changed. Moreover, they mixed the truth with falsehood.

So, we may understand that the true revelation to Isa son of Mary is hidden from us, and instead some people, such as Mark, Luke, Mathew or John, wrote a book and now Christians believe that the books are from God. If we compare some translations of the New Testament, we find some some words or sentences miss in the previous or earlier versions of the same books. This means, later translators added some words, mixed the initial scripture with falsehood or change the word from their right places.

So think about it. Where is the true Injil revealed to Isa son of Mary? Hidden!? What about the Gospels you have? Are they true Gospels revealed to Isa? Or were they written by people such as Luke just like many others, who “have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled”? What about the letters of Paul? Do not they cover the book with falsehood, when he states ‘To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord)’? Can they be the God’s Book? What about the missing words in the earlier scriptures? How did they appear in the “God’s Book”?

Allahs word doesn’t change, He says ‘indeed disbelievers is in the Hell’, and it is. Even all creatures in the earth and heavens unite to change this order an try to save the kafiroon from the Hell, they can’t do this, because it is Allah’s word and His decision that can not be changed.

Now, you must admit that God’s book can be changed, added or mixed with falsehood by the people, because some words you have in the New Testament (which you believe is from God) miss in the earlier scriptures and were added later, or, if you still admit that the revelation from the God can not be changed, then you have to remove almost all part of the New testament form the Bible, as they can’t be God’s Word, because they have been changed.

As for the Qur’an, it is a confirmation and a guardian over those books, showing which part is Truth and which part is falsehood (added or changed later) (Maida 48). So, while reading the previous scriptures we confront with some verses that oppose what we found in Qur’an, we have to reject the message in the previous books as falsehood that was changed or added later, and judge with Qur’an (Maida 48), because Qur’an will never be changed as it is Allah who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, Allah will be its guardian (15:9)

Salaam Syeed
Thank you for your thoughtful and thorough comment. (And sorry for delayed reply). I understand you to say that you agree with my point except for these ayat you quoted which (at first sight) might seem to contradict my thesis – that the Qur’an affirms al kitab. So may I proceed to examine the ayat which you have quoted.

1) Ali-Imran 187 : And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it(!); but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!

This ayah is referring to when the Israelites received their ‘covenant’. I cover this in my post on Musa and Law We both know that both Qur’an and Taurat tell us what happened when prophet Musa (pbuh) received the covenant. While he was up Sinai the Israelites made and worshiped the Golden Calf. This was a grievous sin! And this was a ‘vile bargain’ as the ayah says. But the sin was not corrupting or changing the scripture. The sin was disobeying and idolatry. We know the scripture was not corrupted then because prophet Musa made another copy of the covenant. Sin – yes! Terrible failure – yes! Corruption and loss of covenant from Allah – No!

2) Baqara 146: ‘The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth(!) which they themselves know.’

In the ayat just preceeding (142-144) we see that the subject is about Qibla, when it changed from Jerusalem to Kaaba, not about ‘the Book’. So this is talking about the Jews in Medina who were not believing/following the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). And thus, this is talking about the events in Arabia in years 620-630 AD. And this is hundreds of years after the al Kitab was established, copied and spread around the world. If you look on my post on science of textual criticism you will see that by the year 630 AD there were hundreds of copies of al kitab all around ancient world. Dead Sea Scrolls of Taurat and Zabur were made 200 BC. So this ayah, is not talking about changing or corrupting al kitab, but about the specific Jews in Medina who did not believe prophet Muhammad (Pbuh)

3) Baqara 79: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands(!), and then say:”This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.

This ayah is also about the same thing – the Jews of Medina who did not believe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Baqara 76 says “Behold when they meet the men of Faith they say ‘We Believe’, but when the meet each other in private they say “Shall you tell them what God has revealed to you that they may engage you in argument about it …” In other words the Jews of Medina publicly said they believed (in Muhammad being a prophet) but then amongst themselves said other things. Yusuf Ali commentary says about this whole passage (in particular ayah 78) in footnote #84 “The argument is continued. The Jews (of Medina) wanted to keep back knowledge, but what knowledge had they? Many of them, even if they could read, were no better than illiterates, for they knew not their own true Scriptures, but read into them what they wanted, or at best their own conjectures. They palmed off their own writings for the Message of God..” In other words, this has nothing to do with whether al kitab was written by ‘their own hands’, for that had already been written down hundreds of years before time of Muhammad (pbuh). Like at time of Isa the Jews did not know their own scriptures (Taurat & Zabur) and instead had their own traditions – Talmud, mishna etc. which never was inspired by God.

4) Maida 13: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places(!) and forget(!) a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

This is referring to the failure of Israelites to keep their Covenant. I cover this in Curses of Taurat. They were Cursed, as I show, but their scriptures were never cursed. And that is a big difference. Yusuf Ali comments on this with (footnote #712) “Cursed them – that means that because of the breach of their Covenant, God withdrew His overflowing Grace from them. The withdrawal of Grace made their hearts grow hard in two ways: 1) they were no longer protected from assaults of evil, 2) they became impervious even to the message of forgiveness and mercy which is open to all God’s creatures”. I could not agree more. But that says nothing about corrupting/changing/cursing of al kitab. Because those messages always belonged to God, they never ‘belonged’ to the people, even if they were sent to the people.

This is again speaking to the Jews of Medina who did not believe the prophet Muhammad (pbuh). This is not at all about how they corrupted/changed etc. the writings that were put down hundreds of years before that time. 41 says “And believe in what I reveal, confirming the revelation which is with you” The contention of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was that the revelation he received ‘confirmed’(!!!) the revelation that was ‘with’ (so in 620 AD what was the book that the Jews had? It was Taurat and Zabur exactly as we have today. This was what was ‘with’ the Jews of that day. See my post on textual criticism). This whole passage, if you read it in context argues for the integrity of Taurat. The ‘falsehood’ that is being covered here is the rejection of the Jews of Medina of the revelation of prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Again, Yusuf Ali agrees with me. He says (footnote #59) “ You received revelations before (ie Taurat), now comes one confirming it; its first appeal should be to you (Jews of Medina); are you to be first to reject it…”

So when you read the passages you quote in full they either are talking about Jews of Medina and their falsehoods, or the Jews failure to keep or obey the covenant. But not keeping something is not the same thing as changing it. Isa (pbuh) many times accused the Jews of not following the Law, but never once of changing it. I think that after reviewing these ayat my thesis stands – and you did say that my would be true if not for these ayat.:)

Thank you for your reply.
You said: “I understand you to say that you agree with my point except for these ayat you quoted which (at first sight) might seem to contradict my thesis”.
But unfortunately, I didn’t say that I would agree with your point of view. I said that it would be true if there were no other ayahs in the Quran that contradict your thoughts. If we read the whole Quran and make a conclusion, then your thoughts are totally not acceptable.
Let me go further,
1) Ali-Imran 187 : And remember Allah took a covenant from the People of the Book, to make it known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it(!); but they threw it away behind their backs, and purchased with it some miserable gain! And vile was the bargain they made!
Yes, Allah took a covenant from People of the Book to worship him only as you have mentioned in your reply, and the Israelites broke the covenant worshipping the Golden Calf.
But, here in this ayah, Allah mentions the exact covenant He took from the People of the book, i.e. “to make it (truth) known and clear to mankind, and not to hide it”, which later they broke again.
So here we see not the corruption or loss of covenant, but the inappropriate deal with the truth, they didn’t make it known and clear to mankind, and hided it.
This means that those who succeeded them, did not find the truth or understand it clearly, until Allah sent again messengers.
2) Baqara 146: ‘The people of the Book know this as they know their own sons; but some of them conceal the truth (!) which they themselves know.’
Here the subject is not Qibla as you think. The ayah says that the people of the Book know Muhammad as their sons. One sahaba even said that I know him (Muhammad) better than my son. They know that Muhammad is the true messenger. But Allah says that SOME of them conceal the truth which they themselves know.
So think about it? How the people of the book can know that Muhammad (saw) is a true messenger? Of course, there were informed about it in their books. But, they conceal it.
So here ayah is about is not about whether people of the book believe or not. It is about the fact that people of the book know that Muhammad is a true messenger, but they conceal the truth they were given before.
About the scriptures you have mentioned. I would say, ok, they were spread long before the Muhammad saw’s time, but why not any two copies or the translations of the Kitab are totally similar? Why they differ from each other if they were not corrupted or amended?
So, if those earlier Jews concealed the truth they have found in their books that testify that Muhammad is the messenger, it is spontaneous that you cannot find that truth know in the scriptures what you have now.
3) Baqara 79: Then woe to those who write the Book with their own hands (!), and then say: ”This is from Allah,” to traffic with it for miserable price!- Woe to them for what their hands do write, and for the gain they make thereby.
I didn’t say that Books which Allah sent down to the ummah before us, were written by Jews. The ayah is about the books that people wrote themselves and said this is from Allah. And you also said that in the time of Isa son of Maryam, Jews followed Talmud and mishna etc. which never was inspired by Allah.
So I mentioned this ayah, just to make it clear which part of the Old and New Testament is the Book that Allah has sent us?
Can we consider the writings of Luke, John or letters of Paul the Book Allah has sent? Of course not. When Allah mentions the truth, books or scriptures, we have to understand the exact Books He has sent to exact messengers.
So when we say that the people of the book hided, did not make clear, concealed, amended, corrupted the Book, we have to know what exact book we are talking about.
In case of Isa son of Mary, we believe that Allah sent him al-Injil. But where is this Holy book? Please, don’t show me the letters of Paul or Gospel of Luke or others that were written just it was custom those times to write the events happened then and which were not inspired by Allah, but based on the words of the people.
In this case, it is not important for me whether they were corrupted or not, because they are not the books Allah has sent down, but we must not forget that, event these books you have were later amended or corrupted, as I have mentioned in my previous comment, some parts in these books miss in earlier scriptures.
4) Maida 13: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places (!) and forget(!) a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few – ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.
Here the ayah is about the act of People of the Book that led to the curse of Allah. In other words, Allah says that People of the book changed the words in the scriptures from their places, and forgot a good part of the message that Allah sent them.
Allah says that He cursed the Jews, because they have already changed the words in the scriptures, i.e. corrupted the book. If they had not done so, why Allah has cursed them?
And also Jews, and as the next ayah mentions that Christians have also, forgot a good part of the message. If the earlier Christians and Jews forgot a part of message, even a good part of it, and changed the words from it is places, it is so natural that you cannot find the good news, in your books now.
5) Baqara 42: And cover not Truth with falsehood (!), nor conceal the Truth (!) when ye know (what it is).
Yes, Allah says that Jews of Medina knew that there would be a messenger from Arabian Peninsula, and that is why they moved here so that one of them would become a messenger. But when Muhammad (saw), a Qurayshi Arab, came unto them and said that he is the messenger. But some of them refused even they knew that he is indeed a true messenger.
And as you said the scripture from Prophets time did not change until now, when someone asks if they are any description or testament that testify that Muhammad is a true messenger, it is obvious that the say will say, No there is not any, and by this way they will conceal the truth. But when we say what about this part in the Book, is not it about the messenger and it totally testify that Muhammad saw is a messenger, they will cover the truth with their own falsehood saying, “you know, you did not understand it correctly. It means so so so”. Simply, cover the truth with falsehood, or do not make it clear as they have promised before. You ask, why do they do such? Because they were cursed by Allah.

So when you read ayahs and try to understand it, you find out that
1) Allah has cursed the people of the Book, because they have already changed the words from its right places, and forgot a good part of the message!
2) People of the book did not make the messages of Allah clear to mankind, and they have hided some part of it!
3) And those who read and know the truth conceal it.
These all acts were done before us, which means a good part of the message was already hidden, most part was not clarified as required, some parts are changed from their own places, and good part was forgotten. So, what you have now is not exactly what Allah has sent us down.
These all is about Taurah, but what about Injil, which was sent down to Isa son of Maryam?
We do not have it. And what you will show me is not the Injil Allah has mentioned in Quran, and you clearly know it.
And I repeat, Now, you must admit that God’s books except Quran can be changed, added or mixed with falsehood by the people, because some words you have in the New Testament (which you believe is from God) miss in the earlier scriptures and were added later, or, if you still admit that the revelation from the God cannot be changed, then you have to remove almost all part of the New testament form the Bible, as they can’t be God’s Word, because they have been changed.

Thank you for your thorough comment. Can I make a suggestion? As I show in my article on Sunnah, the prophet Muhammad(pbuh) clearly accepted the Taurat as it was in his day in Medina (ca 620 AD). I quote just one haddith from this article.

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: ..A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (PBUH) to Quff. … They said: ‘AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them’. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (PBUH) who sat on it and said: “Bring the Torah”. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: “I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.” Sunan Abu Dawud Book 38, No. 4434:

And since you agree that the Taurat we have today is the same as prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had (you wrote somewhere in your comment that ‘the scripture from Prophets time did not change until now’), why fight the Taurat that we have today? It would seem you are going against the example of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) in doing so. Yes, we can argue with long and complicated interpretations from passages in Qur’an but what do you have to lose (or fear) by taking Taurat seriously, especially since prophet Muhammad (pbuh) did?

Now you seem to particularly doubt the New Testament since you think this is not the Injil of Isa (pbuh) – Fine. That does not stop you from being informed and learning from what is ‘safe’ – the Taurat. If you look at my ‘Signs’ articles you will see that hardly a verse from New Testament is mentioned. Just like in all areas of knowledge, we start from what we know and move from there into the more uncertain. So learn from ‘Signs of Taurat’ and just consider some of the questions on Injil. In particular you might start with the one on the “gospel …according to who?” You may not necessarily agree with me, but there is nothing to lose by considering that perspective. Same with being informed on the state of the text of Bible from scientific perspective.

Thank you for your quick reply.
Here nobody says that we refuse the Holy Torah.
Yes, you brought a good example about bringing the Torah. Let we see what was happened then:
The Jews came to Allah’s Apostle and told him that a man and a woman from amongst them had committed illegal sexual intercourse. Allah’s Apostle said to them, “What do you find in the torah (old Testament) about the legal punishment of Ar-Rajm (stoning)?” They replied, (But) we announce their crime and lash them.” Abdullah bin Salam said, “You are telling a lie; torah contains the order of Rajm.” They brought and opened the torah and one of them solaced his hand on the Verse of Rajm and read the verses preceding and following it. Abdullah bin Salam said to him, “Lift your hand.” When he lifted his hand, the Verse of Rajm was written there. They said, “Muhammad has told the truth; the torah has the Verse of Rajm. The Prophet then gave the order that both of them should be stoned to death. (‘Abdullah bin ‘Umar said, “I saw the man leaning over the woman to shelter her from the stones.”

Here you see the fact that Jews indeed hided the truth! This is what I am talking to you. Is this the only incident that they hided the part of the Torah?

We were talking here that you say Allah’s books cannot be changed any you tried to proof it citing some ayahs of the Quran that mention that Allah’s Words can not be changes, and as the Holy books are also Allah’s words, there cannot be changed, that is why what we have now as Taurat and Injil were not changed, right?.

But I brought some others verses that Allah’s words, decision and his way of acts will not and cannot be changed. But, when He send books to the earlier ummahs, they misinterpreted, hided and forgot good part of it. And also some others wrote themselves a book and claimed that they are from Allah.

Now, you try to proof that Taurah and Injil are not changed or corrupted, but you fail to explain me several times why earlier versions of the New Testament differ from what you have? How they managed to be amended/corrupted if they were God’s words?

Allah said that He has send to Isa son of Mary (as) the Injil which is the light.
But now you try to push me the Gospels of Luke, Markus, or other letters of Paul as Allah’s Injil?

You say God’s words cannot be changed, and give me a book which was several times changed and amended as Allahs’s book, while there were written exactly that they were written according to the sayings of the witnesses.

If you beleive, that Allah’s books Injeel and Taurat can not be changed, then we have to have it in our hands to discuss it.

About Taurah, which scripture you say from Allah, what the Jews have, or what the Christians have , slightly differs ?

Salaam Ragnar,
am pleased to see the way you are broadening your knowledge in the field of comparative religion, am a muslim girl and have been a student like you in comparative religion, in fact i have learnt all the 66 books of the Bible because apart from the course being “must to learn” in the university i have attended it is also sunnah to learn other people’s scriptures. for me to learn bible was not a hard task especially the old testament which talks about the stories and prophets before Jesus christ but my biggest surprise was when i started learning the new testament, everything seems unreal and despite the fact that i love jesus christ and all the prophets before him i couldn’t take the delusional versus in the Bible that call Jesus Christ the Son Of God or “God” and i believe the biggest differences between Islam and Christianity is based on that . have a look at these versus in the Quran which Allah clearly tells us that Jesus was nothing more than a Prophet:
“People of the Book, do not go to excess in your religion, and do not say anything about God except the truth: the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary, a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers and do not speak of a ‘Trinity’—stop, that is better for you—God is only one God, He is far above having a son, everything in the heavens and earth belongs to Him and He is the best one to trust.”
— Qur’an, sura 4 (An-Nisa), ayat 171[2]

Those who say, “God is the Messiah, son of Mary,” have defied God. The Messiah himself said; “Children of Israel, worship God, my Lord and your Lord.” If anyone associates others with God, God will forbid him from the Garden, and Hell will be his home. No one will help such evildoers. Those people who say that God is the third of three are defying [the truth]: there is only One God. If they persist in what they are saying, a painful punishment will afflict those of them who persist. Why do they not turn to God and ask his forgiveness, when God is most forgiving, most merciful? The Messiah, son of Mary, was only a messenger; other messengers had come and gone before him; his mother was a virtuous woman; both ate food. See how clear We make these signs for them; see how deluded they are.
— Qur’an, sura 5 (Al-Ma’ida), ayat 72-75[3]

And when Allah will say, “O Jesus, Son of Mary, did you say to the people, ‘Take me and my mother as deities besides Allah ?'” He will say, “Exalted are You! It was not for me to say that to which I have no right. If I had said it, You would have known it. You know what is within myself, and I do not know what is within Yourself. Indeed, it is You who is Knower of the unseen.
— Qur’an, sura 5 (Al-Ma’ida), ayat 116[4]

so Dear Brother all the Prophets and people starting from Adam and Eve(our parents), Noah, Abrahm, jacob, moses, Jesus, Mohamed etc believe in only one God and prayed to Him alone through out their Quest. a good enough example is when Jesus cried out to His Lord and said “Oh Load why have you forsaken me” and Moses “praying to The Lord to Defeat Pharaoh and the enemies of the Israelites” and Mohamed praying to Allah when only one third of the Night is remaining beseeching Him to guide His People and to make them receive his message until His last surmon when He delivered the last verse of the Quran and said “O’ Lord bear witness that i have delivered your message to your people” and he prayed and said “may the last person who hears my message understands it better than those who lived during my era”.
there are many genuine and good versus in Bible but it’s 100% authenticity is very dubious. in short i can say Bible is the Mixture of the word of “God”, the word of Jesus peace be upon him (the second last prophet according to Islam) and the word of other men including, mathew, luke, mark (those who narrated the stories and the life of jesus) after Jesus Left them. Kindly do more observations and May the Lord Whom you respect and pray to guide you to rightest path available. Ameen

Thank you for your gracious and thoughtful comment. You are kind even while you still communicate your reservations! And I can certainly understand your skepticism. Can I make a suggestion? You seem to accept the Old Testament (Taurat & Zabur). May I suggest that you start there and see what you learn. In my article in what Quran says about injil, I state that injil can only be understood by going through Taurat first and then Zabur. God revealed them in this order and Quran affirms this as I show in that article.

You can see this progressive build even in my latest post on the Sign of Virgin’s Son from Zabur. You will see that what was revealed there is built upon and understood through what was revealed to Adam. And even this promise of a virgin having a son was very puzzling to the ancient believers. Perspective makes it clearer for us. In this way I think everyone needs to set a foundation (so we do not start with Paul and New Testament for example since that is so ‘dubious’ as you say). If you stick with these articles we will slowly get to the ‘dubious’ New Testament and perhaps then we can make sense of what it is saying.

Thanks Ragnar,
you are as well a very kind human being and i must tell you based on your suggestions that am very much familiar with all the books that Allah has sent down to us, be it zabur, taurat, injil or Quran. we as muslims accept and i again repeat accept and in harmony with all the books from God. what we are against is those who are replicating God and compromised the authenticity of the injil with words from their own comprehension. No matter how much we understand Injil although unfortunately the original Injil is not available and we have so many fabricated different versions of the bible in this century we can’t skip the truth that Allah clearly told us in the Quran that Jesus peace be upon him is not the son of God and He is just a prophet sent to the children of israelities. The bible itself affirms that Jesus was a messenger of God in many ways. we as muslims love him, accept all his miracles and take his original message and we are in fact still waiting him to come back to this world as Prophet mohamed Peace be Upon Him told us just to declare the Oneness of God one more time and to Kill anti-Christ!!
so long as we worship only one God and don’t associate anything with Him Muslims and Christians will be heading just one direction.

Salam,
First of all, I want to express my profound admiration, for you and the way you talk respectfully of Islam, and the holly books, and I want to tell you that those who seek the truth, they always find it, because Allah never give up on them.
Concerning the corruption of the Injil and the Turah, in my modest knowledge, in the Prophet Mohammed’s (peace be upon him) time, some of the original scriptures still existed, but they where destroyed or manipulated because they contained a description of the prophet Mohammed( peace be upon him), and his name was also mentioned, and those who had the books needed to do that so it would be easy for them to deny him, and manipulate those who were waiting for the last Prophet to come, into denying him too.
Please read The Cow 75-79 you’ll see that Allah say that those who has the books used to hear God’s word and than corrupt them.

The different versions that exists of the Bible is also a proof of it’s corruption, there is the Gospel according to each one of the apostles, and if you study them closely (which I believe you’ve already done), they tend to contradict each other, but Allah has only one Injil (Gospel), the one he taught Jesus, and since allegedly each one of the apostles wrote the Gospel as he understood it, this is a clear corruption, there’s only the Holly Quran which got preserved the way God taught it to his Angel Gabriel and Gabriel taught it to Mohammed (peace be upon him).

This is my modest participation, as a testimonial of my profound respect to you. May Allah’s Grace be upon you.

Amima
Thank you for your well-thought out comments. And I understand what you are saying. I started this blog to have a forum or safe place where these ideas, questions and concerns could honestly be discussed. If you look at my article on the Counsellor you will see that Isa (pbuh) promised that the disciples would receive guidance. So I do not think it is correct to say that each ‘wrote the gospel as he understood it’. When you think of it, most of the gospel is a recording of what Isa said and did, not a theological treatise. What was required was memory. This is exactly the same as is required in the hadith. Hadith are here because some people remembered what the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said and did. If you accept in principle the idea of hadith then you must, in principle, accept the idea of eye-witness accounts of what Jesus (pbuh) said and did. Now there are some differences between the 4 gospels. But differences are not the same as contradictions. In my article on why 4 gospels for 1 injil I mention that the account of adam is found 2 times in Quran. It is found in Surah 7 and in Surah 20. They are slightly different. But they do not contradict, only add to each other to give a fuller description of what happened. If you accept 2 accounts of Adam in Quran then in principle one must also accept multiple accounts in al kitab.

I have studied Cow 75-79, and studied Yusuf Ali footnotes on it. This ayah is not about the writing of the al kitab. Rather is about the Jews of Medina who did not believe Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Baqara 76 says “Behold when they meet the men of Faith they say ‘We Believe’, but when the meet each other in private they say “Shall you tell them what God has revealed to you that they may engage you in argument about it …” In other words the Jews of Medina publicly said they believed (in Muhammad being a prophet) but then amongst themselves said other things. Yusuf Ali commentary says about this whole passage (in particular ayah 78) in footnote #84 “The argument is continued. The Jews (of Medina) wanted to keep back knowledge, but what knowledge had they? Many of them, even if they could read, were no better than illiterates, for they knew not their own true Scriptures, but read into them what they wanted, or at best their own conjectures. They palmed off their own writings for the Message of God..” In other words, this has nothing to do with whether al kitab was written by ‘their own hands’, for that had already been written down hundreds of years before time of Muhammad (pbuh).

So we see some of these things differently, but thanks again for your input and feel free to keep reading articles without feeling obligated to agree with me. We may not see eye-to-eye on all interpretations but we have a spirit of seeking for truth and that can only be done by both you and me exposing ourselves to ideas that seem different.

you’re taking proofs and evidences from a translated version of Qur’an instead of reading it and analyse it in it’s original language its totally different my dear brotherhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoIgrhQD5xU

Salaam Bergeny
Thanks for taking the time to place the comment. And you are correct. But look at the overall question (is al kitab corrupted or not) in ‘stages’. We see that at the cursory stage (in English) that there is a good case that it is not corrupted. You admit as much in your comment. And since this is a very important question (after all, any question dealing with revelation from God by definition is important) it therefore warrants a more thorough review. This can be done in the Arabic version which a good friend translated for me. It is at http://al-injil-ar.net/2012/12/04/injil-corrupted-what-does-quran-say/ I think that the question is important enough to study thoroughly and hope it will cause thoughtful reflection.
blessings
Ragnar

Surah An Nisa; Ayah 157
Which is 4:157 as follows:
And [for] their saying, “Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of Allah .” And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but [another] was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain.
The following verse: 4: 158 as follows:
Rather, Allah raised him to Himself. And ever is Allah Exalted in Might and Wise.

My question is, where in the Quran it says that Roman killed Isa (A) as you referred to the above mentioned verse.
It was your understanding that Isa(A) was killed by Romans. But you have projected the sentence in such a way, where it may well mean that in the Surah 4 and Ayah 157 it says ”It was not the Jews that killed Jesus it was the Romans.”

Ideally, when you refer to any Ayah, you should sound it full and don’t leave it to people to their imagination.

Initially I had a thought of you being a reasonable person who might have understanding and quests. But strucking here how the Ayah was represented in your reply and/or comment, I now have the reasons to believe that there is a very cunning practice of slyly misleading the truth by labelling the blog in such a manner. Using the word ‘Injil’ might have attracted lots of peoples to come here and start discussion.

Whats the point saying something to someone who is ” Blind and Deaf”. If your heart is sealed, perception is not your task to do. rather a very unique way of satanic practice is being done here exactly the way ‘Saitan’ does.

Hope you at least shall have the courage to print my comments without altering/faultering/and/or twisting the words of it.

Hello Tauwheed
THank you for your comment. I had to take some time to see which comment of mine you were referring to. When I found my comment I see that (as I intended) I did not say that the Qur’an said that the Romans killed Isa, but that the Injil says that. In other words, Surah 4:157 says (as per your quote) that the Jews did not kill Isa (PBUH). The Injil adds further information in saying that the Romans killed him. That is all I am trying to say, without being sly in any way.

Dear brothers our Prophet Mohamad (saw) told us to guide none muslim people to islam wisely by choosing good words because although you are right by talking tough or rudely the message maight not be well transmited;
you should know also that this page is also made by a person who believe in his religion regardless the curruption in his book and he has his own and different ideas and you should also know that Allah who guides people to the right path and not me or you as it is mentioned in verse of quran when Allah addressed to his Prophet (saw) so what we can do is to discuss and advice them as Allah who can see what we have in our hearts and what they may hide in their hearts which they can’t admit so if he sees that they have good hearts Allah will grant strength to their eye-sight and Noor (light) to their hearts so they can see the truth and realize that Quran is perfect .

Brothers one more thing you should know is there who creat these kind of pages for many reasons and always the perority is to target muslims and to make them doubt about their religion as hamdullah we have the strongest belief if we compare with any other people and they know this fact more than us so my advice for who wants to debate or discuss with none muslims to have good knowledge in islam and also to speak good english so you wont find any obstacles to express your ideas; finaly i would like to advice my brothers to follow what Allah said in Quran when somebody makes fun of islam or tell lies or drop unlogical proofs to defend his thoughts the best you can do is to quit.

I am poor in english but still I could understood what brothers and sisters said above Allah bless you all and it was a chance for me to read the explanation of quran in the verses they pasted; for your information Mr Ragnar what you are reading isn’t the translation of quran but it is only the explanation which makes so big difference so my advice for your is to study arabic since you are that interested in studing islam then if your reason of reading quran and sunah is to find out the truth so you will have an excellent chance to understand properly the words of Allah but if your reason is only to find excuses for the contradiction in the Bible that even more knowledgeable christians than you admited it then certainly you will be only turning around with empty hands; the miracles in quran should be more than enough for you to believe that quran is words of Allah and that Mohamad (saw) is the last Prophet and Messenger of Allah and i guess that you watched the video “Oldest Bible Found In Palestine Confirms Jesus Was A Prophet”.

Salaam Amir
Thank you for your thoughtful comments to me and to other readers. I study the ‘Books’ as carefully and seriously as I can. And the fact of the matter is that the Qur’an makes some powerful and strong statements about the earlier revelations that we should all be informed about and ponder as to the interpretation. It may be that my interpretation is not correct, but then again, until we can hear it and discuss it then it is impossible for anyone to come to their own conviction – that is why I put up the article. I do apologize that I am not proficient enough to do it in Arabic (by the way your English is quite good) but my friend translated this article so it could be reviewed in its native Arabic because I know that this is an important consideration. You can find the arabic article http://al-injil-ar.net/2012/12/04/injil-corrupted-what-does-quran-say/ And what do anyone have to lose by becoming personally informed about what al kitab says? Most people know what others have told them about it. Far better to study it yourself so that one can personally benefit from the Signs of the different prophets like Adam, Ibrahimn, Musa (PBUT) etc.
Allah’s Blessings
Ragnar

Thank you Mr Ragnar for your reply and for your nice comment about my english I appreciate your encouragement; I expected an answer regarding the video “Oldest Bible Found In Palestine Confirms Jesus Was A Prophet”. and if you watched it anyway I found something maybe interesting for you;

Here It says in Injil (Bible) that the roman ruler Pilate had 2 prisonniers Jesus and Barabbas and asked Jewish people who they want to crucify then they chose Isa (Jesus) (peace be upon him) which explain that what in Quran is correct that they crucified Jesus’s company by mistake and that Allah rised Isa.

Matthew 27:21-27
Which of the two do you want me to release to you?” asked the governor. “Barabbas,” they answered. “What shall I do, then, with Jesus who is called Christ?” Pilate asked. They all answered, “Crucify Him!” “Why? What crime has He committed?” asked Pilate. But they shouted all the louder, “Crucify Him!” When Pilate saw that he was getting nowhere, but that instead an uproar was starting, he took water and washed his hands in front of the crowd. “I am innocent of this man’s blood,” he said. “It is your responsibility!” All the people answered, “Let His Blood be on us and on our children!” Then he released Barabbas to them. But he had Jesus flogged, and handed Him over to be crucified. Then the governor’s soldiers [see Roman Legions] took Jesus into the Praetorium and gathered the whole company of soldiers around Him.” (Matthew 27:21-27

Hi Amir. So sorry for late reply. I totally agree with you here. Like you say, the Injil records how the Roman governor released Barabbas and crucified Jesus. Thus Surah 4:157 is correct – It was not the Jews that killed Jesus it was the Romans.

Hi Agnar
don’t worry take your time we’re not rush 🙂
well my point is since there was a 2nd person besides of prophet Jesus (saw) it means that there was a chance that they made mistake and they crucified the other person and not Jesus and as per Quran those people weren’t certain that they crucified the right person and that Allah saved Jesus and raised him which explain also that he’ll come back before the end of the world in order to make justice and to prove that he’s not a God then he’ll die as a normal human being.

Hi,
your Quran it self says about his death,
Jesus Himself says that He will die and rise up according to Surah 19:33.
وَالسَّلَامُ عَلَيَّ يَوْمَ وُلِدتُّ وَيَوْمَ أَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ أُبْعَثُ حَيًّا
“So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, And that day I shall be raised up to life (again).” (A. Yusuf Ali)
The word “again” is not in the Arabic text but is Ali’s insertion. Compare Pickthall translation:
“Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I am raised to life.”
Muslims who deny the death of Christ interpret the above verse as an incident that is going to happen in the future. They say, “Jesus will come again and he will die and then he will be raised up alive.” But this kind of interpretation is problematic because the very same phrase is used of John the Baptist (Yah Yah) just a few verses earlier:
وَسَلَامٌ عَلَيْهِ يَوْمَ وُلِدَ وَيَوْمَ يَمُوتُ وَيَوْمَ يُبْعَثُ حَيًّا
“So Peace is on him the day he was born, the day that he dies, and that day he will be raised To life (again)!” (Surah 19:15 Yusuf Ali)

Hi Amir. Thanks for the link. Would not the fact that you suggest a video using the Zabur (Bible) to show that the Prophet Muhamad’s name was prophesied in the Bible lend support to the idea that the Bible was not corrupted. It would be pointless to use the Bible to prove such a point if indeed the Bible was corrupted. So, without commenting on the interpretation of the video, the very premise of the video is that the Bible is uncorrupted and can be used to examine prophesy. On that I think we are once again on the same page.

Hi Agnar!!
how can you explain that in your new testements it’s not mentioned that Muhammad (saw) is prophet unlike the old Injil
if what you said is true so we shouldn’t find many differences in your books and the Quran is the best example please check this video again

well by coinsidance I found this video of sheikh Ahmed Didad and I’m feeling embarassed or to be honest ashamed to say what’s in it especially that islam gives a special and the highest value for Allah then for his prophets (peace be upon them all) so I let you check your self and let me know if it’s true or false. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CnCJndgZ3U and if you still think that I should read the bible and believe in what it says and follow it complately as it’s the word of God! and i hope this time you’ll will give a logical answer because your previous was kind of smartness but the truth is clear for people who’ll read our conversation.
O Allah guide who has good heard and deserves to follow your right path.

Hello Amir
Sorry for the long delay. I have been busy and when there are two videos to watch I need to take some time. But today I watched them. So here are my thoughts.

Deedat in the first video is trying to prove by a similar sound in Hebrew that Song of Solomon 5:16 is prophesying the prophet Muhammad (PBUH). To advance that argument I think it best to read Song of Solomon and see how this person is described. This person drinks wine (SS 5:1 & 8:2). It is mentioned 8 times that the lover of this man is speaking to people in Jerusalem, so this is happening in Jerusalem. This man has 60 wives and 80 concubines (SS 6:8-9). Does this sound like the description of the prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to you? Arabic and Hebrew are similar languages. If you search through the whole Taurat and Zabur, with all those words you would expect to find one that just by chance has a similar sound to ‘Muhammad’. Deedat knows all this – he is trying to play us for fools.

So now we turn to the second video, again with Deedat. Here he is arguing that with the incest described in Genesis 19 of Lut (and some similar passages) that the Taurat must be corrupted. That certainly is a different attitude than the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) displayed to Taurat. In my article on Sunnah I quote one hadith which says

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Umar: ..A group of Jews came and invited the Apostle of Allah (PBUH) to Quff. … They said: ‘AbulQasim, one of our men has committed fornication with a woman; so pronounce judgment upon them’. They placed a cushion for the Apostle of Allah (PBUH) who sat on it and said: “Bring the Torah”. It was then brought. He then withdrew the cushion from beneath him and placed the Torah on it saying: “I believed in thee and in Him Who revealed thee.” Sunan Abu Dawud Book 38, No. 4434:

In that same article we look at the Dead Sea Scrolls, which are copies of Taurat, in existence today which are dated to 200 BC – and they are the same as the ones today. Thus, the Prophet Muhammad, when he made this statement about 625 AD was looking at the same Taurat we have today.

Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law (i.e. Taurat) or the Prophets (i.e. Zabur); I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 5:17-19)

So Deedat is going against the explicit statements of both the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the Prophet Isa al Masih (PBUH) on this matter. He does so because he is confident in his reasoning that descriptions of this sort of behaviour must prove corruption. He assumes that all prophets are sinless. But this is not what the hadiths tell us. In my article on the Virgin Birth I look at the hadith which tells us about the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) asking for forgiveness. Here it is

Abu Musa Ash’ari reported on the authority of his father that Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) used to supplicate in these words: “O Allah, forgive me my faults, my ignorance, my immoderation in my concerns. And Thou art better aware (of my affairs) than myself. O Allah, grant me forgiveness (of the faults which I committed) seriously or otherwise (and which I committed inadvertently and deliberately. All these (failings) are in me. O Allah, grant me forgiveness from the fault which I did in haste or deferred, which I committed in privacy or in public and Thou art better aware of (them) than myself. Thou art the First and the Last and over all things Thou art Omnipotent.” (Muslim 35: 6563)

This is consistent with what we read about all people in Taurat and Zabur. In Psalm 14 we read that

The LORD looks down from heaven
on all mankind
to see if there are any who understand,
any who seek God.
3 All have turned away, all have become corrupt;
there is no one who does good,
not even one. (Psalm 14:2-3)

All people are described as not doing good. The account in Genesis 19 is giving us an example of how this is true. Deedat is doing exactly what the Jews did. They did not believe the scriptures because of their reasoning. See here for that.
So here we come to the rub of the matter. No one alive today was there when these books were written down. So we have to trust someone in making our decision about them. You have chosen to trust Deedat and his reasoning. You can see how reliable Deedat is regarding SongSolomon. I have chosen to trust the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the Prophet Isa al Masih (PBUH) on this matter. There is nothing to lose in exploring the Taurat, Zabur and Injil.

Salaam wa alykum Fahim
This is a great question. Jesus (PBUH) had the same Taurat and Zabur that we have today. We know this for many reasons. One easy one is that when you read the life of Jesus in the Injil you will see how much he quotes from Taurat and Zabur. If you look at my article on languages of Bible you will see the books and prophets that precede Jesus in a Timeline.
Jesus himself formed the Injil by his life and teachings. His companions (or disciples) wrote down what he said and taught. His message came from Allah (God) and was spoken by him and written down by his companions. You can see this in more detail in more article on Gospel according to who. The fact that his disciples wrote down his message and the example of his life is very similar how the companions of the prophet Muhammad wrote down what he recited and what he did. I hope this helps answer your question

Asalam-u-Alaikum to all.
i am seeing alot of you guys great eachother with word “salam”.
Salam means peace.Its not the proper way to greet other person.No offense by the way 🙂
Well proper word of greating each other in Islamic world when one person meet other person is “Asalam-u-Alaikum(peace be with you)” .And in reply other person says “Wa alaikum assalaam” (And upon you be peace).And also i am not saying that internet is Islamic world.just i thought that you guys should know about it.If anyone asks 🙂
Thankyou.

Hello Amir,
the name Ahmed Deedat caught my attention. I know he features many debates on his website. I found it rather surprising that one of his debates is not shown on his website…a debate with Josh McDowell. Below is the youtube link to the video that shows the debate. My feeling is that Mr Deedat does not feel comfortable showing this debate on his website. I would encourage you to take some time and listen to what Mr Deedat and Mr McDowell have to say.

i am muslim i prode to be muslim i believe oll massengers olso i believe that prophet muhamed (PPUH ) is last masenger from ALLAH (GOD) and holy quran is last reveiled that no bady can change and this is the deference between holy quran and athers such us in jil tawraat zabuur

Salaam wa alykum Maghamis
Thank you for your comment. I am glad that you are proud to be Muslim. This site is not about changing religions but about understanding the Injil – which is given to Muslims and is mentioned many times in the holy quran as I show in the article about the Signs in Quran. There is really nothing to lose by understanding the Injil. I think that good reasons are shown not only in this article but through science and through example of prophet Muhammad in Sunnah as to why the books of Taurat, Zabur & Injil have not changed. This is a question that deserves our full attention and I hope you take the opportunity to look at these articles that discuss this important question.
Allah’s blessings
Ragnar

hi RAGNAR,,, you maybe did not read the whole Bible… i will you the proof since you’re bragging to show that the BIBLE is still UNCORRUPTED…. well, the interpolations occured in the Bible happened long before until Prophet ‘Irmiyah or JEREMIAH came stop the foolishness of the RABBIS…, your Bible attests that it is CORRUPTED; Jeremiah 8:8

Hi Jemz
THanks for your comment. Now if we look at the passage inc. verses before and after here is what it says
But my people do not know
the requirements of the Lord.

8 “‘How can you say, “We are wise,
for we have the law of the Lord,”
when actually the lying pen of the scribes
has handled it falsely?
9 The wise will be put to shame;
they will be dismayed and trapped.
Since they have rejected the word of the Lord,
what kind of wisdom do they have?

So in what way has the ‘lying pen of the scribes handled the law falsely’ By changing it?! That is not at all the accusation here. The verse before says that the people ‘do not know the requirements of the law’ since the wise (those scribes) had ‘rejected the word of the Lord’ (V.9). In other words this was not a case of changing the word of the lord but of rejecting it and therefore not teaching it so that the people went into gross error. As you read the book of Jeremiah you will see this error of conduct repeated in many ways. But never that the word of the lord was changed.

Dear Fried Peace be to you and all who seek the truth,
However I did not read the entire topic but can make my points here.
If you really want to find the right path, please do not blame or consider wrong the religion that you know less about. And do not declare the Holy Qur’an verses as simple as you did in your comprehension. There are many signs in Holy Qur’an that need in-depth knowledge, there are many verses that have interconnected meanings among them. For example: Verse 4, Sorah Maun says: فَوَيْلٌ لِّلْمُصَلِّينَ. which means “So, woe unto those performers of Salah,”. But the complete meaning is given in the next verses.
By the way, I am not taking your time. I believe if anyone study Islam with peace, open mind & open hard, Not reverting to it is impossible.
At the end I recommend you watching a video “debate between Dr. Zakir Naik & Dr. William Campbell – “The Quran and the Bible in the Light of Science”.
Salamu alaikum.

Salaam wa alykun Mr. Awn
Thank you for your comment. It is much appreciated. I understand what you are saying, but as you can see here this site is not about Christianity or about Islam. It is about the Injil which the Qur’an speaks very respectfully about. In fact the Quran mentions the Injil in such a manner that it should be seen as a Sign from Allah. Whatever we may think about these other things it is still a worthwhile pursuit to seek to understand the Injil
Allah’s blessings
Ragnar

If I am standing in front of the IBM headquarters building, and a fellow employee unknowingly asked
be “Is this your building , do you own this building ? ”

Then I replied “This Building is NOT MY OWN, but it belongs to The ONE WHO EMPLOYEES
ME”

This would clarify to the person asking that I AM NOT THE OWNER, I am just one of the
workers.
I do not own the building (Universe) the one I work for owns it.

Another Example is:

If I am at a gathering of people in a friend’s house, and a fellow guest unknowingly asked me, “Is this
your house ?” I would reply “This is not my house but it is the house of the ONE WHO INVITED
ME”

This would clarify to the fellow guest that again, I am NOT THE OWNER of the house.

Did Jesus make such statements regarding his status, the words, the will and the power he used ?

WORDS

“Jesus answered them and said, “My doctrine is not Mine, but His
who sent Me.” [John 7:16]

“He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word
which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me.” [John 14:24]

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who
sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak.” [John 12:49]

WILL

“Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of him who sent
me, and to accomplish his work.” [John 4:34]

“For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but
the will of Him who sent Me.” [John 6:38]

“saying, “Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me;
nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done.” [Luke 22:42]

POWER

” I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My judgment
is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of the
Father who sent Me.” [John 5:30]

“I tell you the truth, no servant is greater than his master,
nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him.” [John 13:16]

“You heard me say, `I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you
loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.” [John 14:28]

“Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me,
for I proceeded and came forth from God; I came not of my own accord,
but he sent me.” [ John 8:42]

“To sit at my right hand and at my left is not mine to grant, but it is for
those for whom it has been prepared by my Father” [Matthew 20:23]

KNOWLEDGE

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in
heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.” [Mr 13:32]

“But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of
heaven, but My Father only.” [Mt 24:36]

“So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who
sent me” [John 7:16]

STATUS

“Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the
kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.” [Mt 7:21]

“And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of
me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape. [John 5:37]

“And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good
but God alone.” [Mr 10:18]

“And I do not seek My own glory; there is One who seeks and judges.” [John 8:50]

Some Christians, (not all) claim that Jesus _implied_ that he was God, from the above verses, we see that Jesus denied being God, it now leaves the Christians who believe Jesus is God to provide just one single verse in the Bible where Jesus says “I am God” there is no such verse, the God of Abraham in the Old Testament stated “I am God” over 200 times, yet oddly Jesus never uttered those three words once in the Gospel, so we see from the many quotes above, that the House did not belong to Jesus, it belonged to the One who Sent him.

Salaam wa alaikum Mohamed
Thank you for your comment and extensize quotinf of Injil. You make good observations of the teachings of Isa (Jesus – PBUH). Certainly there is great controversy over the nature of Jesus. This is why I think it is best to start at the beginning and understand starting from the Taurat what the plan of God (Allah) is. This is why I started the series from Taurat, begining with Adam.

There is a violent debate amongst Christians regarding which Bible to use , we would think all the Bibles are the same since they claim each one is by God .

Here we will compare the Bibles the Christians _argue_ about between themselves so we can see what all the rage in the midst of Christians is all about .

We will take the most popular Bibles , the King James Version (K.J.V.), the Revised Standard Version (R.S.V.) , the New International Version (N.I.V.) , the Good News Bible (G.N.B.), and the Living Bible Version (L.B.V.) and contrast verses within these Bibles .

verse Matthew 17:21
———————-

K.J.V. “Howbeit this kind goes not out but by prayer and fasting

R.S.V. (not included)

N.I.V. (not included)

G.N.B. (not included)

L.B.V. (not included)
==================

verse Mark 9:44
——————-

K.J.V. “Where their warm dies not, and the fire is not quenched”

R.S.V. (not included)

G.N.B. (not included)

N.I.V. (not included)

L.B.V. (not included)
=================

verse Mark 16:9-20
———————-

K.J.V. (not omitted )

R.S.V. (omitted in edition 1952 and recently restored with the footnote “not include in the most reliable manuscripts)
====================

verse Luke 9:56
——————-

K.J.V. “For the son of man is not come to destroy men’s live but to save.

R.S.V. (not included)

N.I.V. (not included)

G.N.B. (not included)

L.B.V. (not included)
==================

verse Luke 17:36
———————
K.J.V. “Two men shall be in the field, the one shall be taken and the other left”

R.S.V. (not included)

N.I.V. (not included)

G.N.B. (not included)
===================

verse John 5:4
——————

K.J.V. “For an Angel went down at a certain season into the pool and troubled water. Whosoever then after the troubling of the water stepped in was made of whatsoever disease he had”

R.S.V. (not included)

N.I.V. (not included)

G.N.V. (not included)
===================

verse 1 John 5:7
——————–

K.J.V. “For there are three that bear witness in Heaven, the Father, and the word and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one”

R.S.V. (not included)

N.I.V. “For there are three that testify; the Spirit, the Water, and the Blood and these three are in agreement.”

G.N.B. “There are three witnesses; the Spirit, the Water, and the Blood,

L.B.V. (not included)

=========================

the word “begotten” is not included in verse; [[John 3:16]]
—————

K.J.V. “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son”

The Protestants in the year 1611 AD , removed the Deutrocanonicals from the Bible
————–

66 Chapters/books within the Protestant Bible .

If the Christians had obeyed the Bible from the start , than all the Christians persecuting Christians would not have occurred and will stop occurring .

” What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.” De 12:32

” Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.”Pr 30:6

“For I testify unto every man that hearth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:” Re 22:18

“And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Re 22:19

By the Grace of Allah (God in the Arabic Language) , the Holy Qur’an , the Third and Final Warning to humans , has been protected by Allah from change for over 1,400 hundred years .

Every letter is identical to the Original Qur’an sent by God , humans have failed in preserving the Enlightenment given to them , so as a Favor to us from Allah , the Qur’an is preserved for us as can be Witnessed by visiting the Islamic Museum in Cairo Egypt where a original Qur’an is available to see.

This message is not one of arguing or debating with the Christians, it is a message to bring peace, all humans are created from one, so shall we return to One Creator .

Hi Mohamed
You are confusing the issue of translation with that of the originals. When I read the Qur’an in English it is a translation. I prefer to use Yusuf Ali. Some words are given in parentheses ( …) because they are not in the original but added in for clarity of translation. Please see my article on the many ‘bible versions’

There are differences of understanding between Catholics and protestants just as their are between Sunnis and Shiites. But the purpose of this site is to learn and understand the Injil – which is common to all.

Can I know why you deleted all comments and facts I pasted in your differents topics?

if this page isn’t against islam and you are not trying to make muslims doubt about their religion as you are trying to make us believe so why can’t you accept what I brought for you ?

does it collapse all your efforts and fake stories ?!

why then can’t you accept the message that Allah revealed to us by our Prophet Mohammad (saw) instead of denying his message and defending your wrong thoughts ??

You’ll be judged hardly and Jesus won’t help you as he’ll be so angry of denying the message of Allah anyway you are free in this life but at the day of judgement you’ll definately regret this wrong behaviour.

I know you are a groupe and trying to make muslims convert to christianity and certainly you are supported by your governement and provide all your financial needs but do you think that your governement can save you from Allah when he’ll ask you why you corrupted the truth?

what will be your excuse ? money ? women?…??? to satisfy your needs?

don’t you realize that life is so short and for this reason we muslims adviced to work for our iternal life in paradis inshallah, well in your page you can do whatever you want but Allah can see all and you’ll be judged for not believing in him as one God and for hidding truth about Islam and the corruption of the bibble and you’ll be judged about all the people who visit your page that you are trying to take them to HELL WITH YOU!!!!

Hi Amir
You jump to conclusions about me as quickly (and wrongly) as you do about al kitab. In fact, I was traveling the last 2 months and your comments were so long and (sorry) factually incorrect that I needed some time to write responses. So I waited until I got home and had some time. In fact, the reason it took so long to reply is that this site is simply run by me (not a group) on my spare time and resources (governments in Canada do not give these kinds of initiatives).

And I am not trying to ‘make muslims doubt about their religion’. I do not see how having us learn what the Taurat, Zabur & Injil teach, while answering questions about them should cause any muslim to doubt his/her religion since Muslims are commanded to believe in all these books! The problem is that they are ‘believed’ in theory but not understood. So this is about understanding the message of these books (that you should believe anyways).

Now it could be that my perspective is different (and maybe even wrong). But it is only when all of us (me included as well as you) make the decision to try to understand and grapple with new ideas that we will ever grow. You and I can only be the better for thinking though these issues and this message because then we are better informed.

Hi bro!
Assalamu alaikkum warh…
bro Mr Rangar! As you Know About Quran- Injeel You Must be found the correct way! It is right time to embrace Islam! According to your point of view The Quran and Injeel and other Books are reveled by Allah only hence how Injeel and other Books were corrupted or changed!? while Quran is not corruptible or unchangeable? since both revealed by Allah? there are many arguments were held regarding the point. so I would like say some thing easy for you to understand ” A Muslim first he should believe in one God immediately the 2nd thing he has to believe in All books revealed by God. so All the Muslims are believing in Thourath, Injeel and zaboor as well as Quran, As the Quran is the final and last revelation of the god. as you agreed you just going through of the Sunnah please you will be find the word of the prophet regarding Injeel. so we all as Muslims we must follow his word and deeds in every moments.

Hi Jaffer
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I understand that one ‘has to believe in All books revealed by God’ but this is true in theory only. When one has never studied the Taurat, Zabur or Injil it is hard to say that one really ‘believes’ in it. My point is why not put theory into practice and see what these books really say.

Dear brother .. Dear .. .. I think the best description in interfaith dialogue between Islam and Christianity , is a description of the commander of the Arab Socialist Baath Party Christian origin Syrian Arab Nationalist Michel Aflaq when he described Arabism as the body . Islam is the spirit of all nationalities and religious minorities in the Middle East .. I am please to ask the following question … Is that all prophets ( Jacob .. Ibrahim Ismail .. .. Jesus .. Moses .. David .. Thanon Younis .. Joseph .. Muhammad) .. are human beings like us sleep .. eat the food .. And who eats food should shits and pisses .. What is the difference humans and the prophets and apostles of God the Creator and what are the similarities between the Creator and the creature .. Thank you very much …

As understood in Islam and Christianity, the human body is made of clay, which is perishable and resurrectible. It hides the soul during its life-time, just like God’s Spirit(Ruh-Allah) veiling in the body of Jesus. The body(made of clay) is dead (not the God’s Spirit contained therein) and resurrected in verse Quran 19:33. A few saints resurrected following Jesus Christ.(Bible). One such saint is Baptist John, in verse Quran 19:15. Bible says that first Adam was a living being(soul) and the second Adam(Jesus Christ) is a life-giving Spirit (Ruh-Allah)

I respect your point of view, God and one partner has created the Lord of the heavens and the earth, since eternity has no partner and no heir in His creation is the director of the universe, even if a son or brother or the daughter of to mangle the universe .. We are human beings and the prophets and apostles are all servants of God., I am God, and to Him we return. Dear ..Thank you very much

The Quran is the last revelation of Allah.The Bible was sent only for the people of Iseral of that time when Isah(Jesus) was on the earth,not using for present.The present Testament is Quran,nw u have to belief and follow the Quran.The bible and prophet Jesus(Peace be upon him) was sent only for the people of Iseral of that time.It is mentioned also in the bible,read the bible with understanding then u can find it.So nw the bible have it is not exact form of Injil,Injil is corrupted.It is the word of God.My loving brother,quran is the last testament so u hve to belief and follow it.If u follow Quran,so u hve nt neccesary to follow bible,bcz bible was sent for a particular people also for particular period.Now the u hve to follow Quran bcz u was born after Prophet Mohammad.

Hi Aminul
Thank you for your thoughtful comment. I understand you are expressing a very common belief. But the article shows how the Qur’an itself tells us that the Injil is the New Testament – that it has not changed. Perhaps it has been superceded as you suggest. But again, it is worth looking at what the Qur’an itself says about that – in my article here.

In verse Al-Koran 2:4, the Prophet advised to believe what was revealed before him. In verse Al-Koran 2:136, we should believe in what has been relieved through Abraham, Moses(Torah) , David (Psalms), Jesus (Injil) etc. In verse Al-Koran 2:4, the tribes of Israel is shown favour and are preferred over all other nations. Perhaps, this sentiment has been reiterated/echoed by Jesus. In verse Bible, Mathew 28:14, Mark 16:15,Luke 24:47, Jesus advised to go and preach the Injil to all Nations/every creature- i.e. unto the ends of this world. Please have a good reading of the Torah, Psalms, and the New Testament for a fuller understanding and the life hereafter.

Dear frnds
first of all we blame each other (in the name of discussion) weneed to know the diffrence bitween DEEN as religion and SHARIYAT as laws and orders.

DEEN or religion is same in all books called torah,zuboor,injeel,quraan,and all the pages called SAHAIF .AS believing as one and only god as TOHEED,all prophets as RISALAT, day of judgment and paradise and hell as AAKHIRAT,and good and bad luck as TAQDEER.
ALL books teaches the same things wich are not cancellable matter and quran e kareem called to follow all if them.

the second thing is law and orders for living those were diffrent for all prophets like the laws of every country.
these are the things that every prophet cancelled the last prophets laws.

this is the main confusion we all have about cancillation of last books.while whole book can not be cancelled.