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True, but Seattle was much smaller for most of its history (in 1900, Buffalo was over 4x bigger). Far more of the city is new. And there's lots of new construction. For someone coming from NY, Seattle (and Washington in general) feels quite a bit newer. That doesn't that there isn't some old parts in Washington, but there are less.

Leaving the big cities, there are lots of towns in upstate NY with 19 century centers. Some of them haven't grown much in the last 100 years. You don't get that as much in Washington.

Yeah, my girlfriend has faimly in Massena in way upstate New York(almost to Canada) and driving around there and across the northern tip of the state over to Plattsburgh and Lake Champlain, I was struck by how many War of 1812 memorials there were in a lot of towns and little villages. A lot of history up in those parts, though a lot of it isn't as recognized for it as places in the more touristed New England region to the east.

Quote:

Originally Posted by King of Kensington

Besides bordering Canada and a history of "Yankee" settlement, I don't see much in common.

What is an example of PNW city with a Rochester-esque "mix of white collarness and grittiness"?

Tacoma is the only sizable Puget Sound city that still feels somewhat gritty. Though it doesn't have that much of a white collar feel(some suburbs of it do), though most neighborhoods feel pretty blue collar.

Yeah, my girlfriend has family in Massena in way upstate New York(almost to Canada) and driving around there and across the northern tip of the state over to Plattsburgh and Lake Champlain, I was struck by how many War of 1812 memorials there were in a lot of towns and little villages. A lot of history up in those parts, though a lot of it isn't as recognized for it as places in the more touristed New England region to the east.

Hmm. I haven't noticed War of 1812 memorials in either upstate NY or New England. Perhaps because it's by the US-Canadian border?

West of the Hudson, Upstate NY was first settled after the Revolutionary War, while all but much of northern New England and some hilltowns were settled in the 1600s or early 1700s.

Hmm. I haven't noticed War of 1812 memorials in either upstate NY or New England. Perhaps because it's by the US-Canadian border?

West of the Hudson, Upstate NY was first settled after the Revolutionary War, while all but much of northern New England and some hilltowns were settled in the 1600s or early 1700s.

I wasn't referring to War of 1812 history in New England, just saying that New England itself receives much more notoriety for historical sights in general than Upstate New York.

There's some famous sites like Sackett's Harbor on Lake Ontario and Plattsburgh, though I saw some other random spots in little towns in between the St. Lawerence and further south driving towards the Adirondacks. Sort of little off the beaten path small villages with maybe a little plaque telling of a British raid in 1814.

Tacoma is the only sizable Puget Sound city that still feels somewhat gritty. Though it doesn't have that much of a white collar feel(some suburbs of it do), though most neighborhoods feel pretty blue collar.

Maybe, probably used to feel a little grittier, though I never visited back in the 80s or 90s. Seems more like a mix of middle class suburbia and more working class or low rent areas with a more recently fixed up downtown and a mall these days. Plenty of Boeing engineers and people who commute to Seattle live there these days. The old kind of port towns along Puget Sound though have their kind of working class/industrial areas, but it's still the Northwest--everything gets scrubbed clean at some point and most of the area outside the oldest downtown areas feels pretty suburban.

I've never been to Rochester or Buffalo though, so I can't really make the comparison to a city in the Northwest. I'd assume though, that they feel competely different.

Maybe, probably used to feel a little grittier, though I never visited back in the 80s or 90s. Seems more like a mix of middle class suburbia and more working class or low rent areas with a more recently fixed up downtown and a mall these days. Plenty of Boeing engineers and people who commute to Seattle live there these days. The old kind of port towns along Puget Sound though have their kind of working class/industrial areas, but it's still the Northwest--everything gets scrubbed clean at some point and most of the area outside the oldest downtown areas feels pretty suburban.

I've never been to Rochester or Buffalo though, so I can't really make the comparison to a city in the Northwest. I'd assume though, that they feel competely different.

Rochester's Southeastern neighborhoods is its more scrubbed area of the city with yuppies and middle/upper middle class families. It has a few other neighborhoods that are solid, but also has those that are in between and rough too. Nice looking downtown, but it isn't as vibrant as it could be. Much of the vibrancy is in the SE neighborhoods and the East End section of Downtown.

Buffalo is more Blue collar, but North Buffalo and parts of its West Side, along with Elmwood Village are fine to very nice. There are a few other areas that are solid there too.

Tacoma is the only sizable Puget Sound city that still feels somewhat gritty. Though it doesn't have that much of a white collar feel(some suburbs of it do), though most neighborhoods feel pretty blue collar.

Tacoma, Everett, Bremerton. 20 years ago Renton would be on the list too, but being adjacent to Seattle and the wealthy eastside have greatly cleaned that place up.

Shelton should be on the list too, even though it is smaller.

Outside of the Puget Sound area you got Abredeen-Hoquaim, Longview, Raymond, Forks, Yakima...

Tacoma has a white collar feel in the NE, NW, and W parts of town. Just visit Tacoma Mall to see the wide array of Tacoma demographics. Downtown has been becoming more white collar as well with the condos, museums, and the University.

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