A clear philosophy on the pitch, played some very entertaining stuff, even in a 1-4

Well I’m not getting my Calvin Klein’s in a twist after the 4-1 reversal at Anfield. For starters, we were missing two key centre backs as in Christoph Zimmermann and Timm Klose.

Already some people are leaping on Grant Hanley’s back, but he was (not arguably but factually) our only available centre back on Friday night. Over to Daniel Farke:

‘I know no-one wants to speak about it now after this result but in that first half we had nearly the same possession, we had more chances and more shots, but the reality is they had four shots on our goal and were 4-0 up at half-time.

‘That is unbelievably unlucky. Our performance deserved much more, and we were not too far away from a good result at Anfield. We will speak about the lessons we need to learn but I honestly believe there are more positives to take.’

Plus we were playing the Champions League winners. Away in the first game of the season. And only Hanley and Tim Krul had ever played in the Premier League before. Okay, Patrick Roberts had a handful – if that – of Premier League games a couple of years back with his parent club Man City but he ended up on, and staying on, the bench.

I reckon it will be much different against the Mags at Carrow Road on Saturday. Only time will tell of course but I remain confident. As for Hanley, who may or may or not take the field against Newcastle, sure he made a terrible howler with that early OG.

He knows it (his hands-on-knees reaction confirms that) but the last thing he needs is to be castigated by the likes of me. We all make errors, although maybe not in front of 50,000 people at Anfield and a worldwide satellite TV audience. I think we should leave it there. He doesn’t deserve further stick. It happened. Let us and indeed him get over it.

Gary G made a very pertinent observation on Friday that there are people about on social media bemoaning a perceived lack of spending and apparently there have been a few derogatory comments floating around following Friday’s result.

I will not partake in the use of said social media. It’s not because I’m a Luddite, just a case of personal choice. However, a couple of mates often send me some snippets if they think they will either make me laugh or cry. A couple of these concerning “lack of spending” and “Grant Hanley” have actually induced both emotions.

Until the arrival of Stuart Webber and Farke plus coaching team I have often been very vocal in my criticism of the Board, but ever since the arrival of our dynamic duo my mindset has altered.

We have a clear policy off the pitch, dictated and implemented by Webber and his team. So far, so very, very good.

We have a clear philosophy on the pitch, and we play some very entertaining stuff, even in a 4-1 defeat against maybe the third best team in the world. All credit to Farke and his coaches.

Add in the improvements at Colney and our much-improved recruitment strategy (particularly with the acquisition of so many good young players for the future) and it’s easy to see a cohesive plan and a lasting structure in place, which simply didn’t exist three years ago. So much achieved in such a short timeframe.

So many of us seem to back this approach and accept that the idea of splurging a la Villa is not our way forward.

There will always be some who disagree of course. It’s always easy to spend somebody else’s money, after all.

I still think we’ll be fine.

But if not and we do end up in the Championship we will not go gentle into that good night, and equally importantly we will not have any obscene wages or egotistical players to hinder our return, simply a squad that has done it before and will be more than capable of a return to the Premier League

Although with 37 matches to play I reckon I’m leaping ahead a little too much. I repeat, we’ll be fine.

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Comments

Well Martin – what a brilliant read on a Monday morning and I think DF in his post-match summary was spot on!!! I see that already Hanley (aka GH) is the new ‘target’ for a handful of fans, but didn’t Klose also gift a win to Stoke when they came to CR last season, yet I don’t remember him being castigated in the same way and knowing DF, I’m sure he would have no problem having the same CB pairing on Saturday/

Apart from some naive defending, I think we acquitted ourselves very well on Friday night in front of 50,000 or so Liverpool fans and the cauldron of noise that is Anfield. I was disappointed in McLean and I wonder if we may see Roberts start against Newcastle.

Had Stieperman packed his ‘shooting boots’, we could even have taken the lead. I’m not saying that it would have made any difference to the overall score, but I wonder how many other teams visiting Anfield will amass 5 ‘shots on target’ .

I’m sure DF will use the game to impress upon his players how they need to be more aware of the threats posed and the players themselves will learn from their mistakes.
Bring on Newcastle.

PS – I am quietly confident that we will survive in the PL this season and if we don’t, then I would FAR rather we fail playing as we did on Friday than by trying to prevent the opposition from scoring.

I remember watching McLean when Scotland played Belgium. Lots of effort, huff and puff, but really it was all too easily ignored by Belgium. Unfortunately it was the same at Anfield. I would not hesitate trying Roberts instead.

Actually I could see Mo Leitner coming in for Kenny McLean rather than Patrick Roberts.

Farke’s DM selection will be a pleasantly difficult one. We are yet to see Ibrahim Amadou play, but after a full week at Colney he may very well be considered. And he can play at CB too, of course. Maybe a consideration if Timm Klose doesn’t make it in time for Saturday?

So back to DM, that’s perm any two from five: Leitner, Amadou, McLean, Tom Trybull and Mario Vrancic. It would be six if Alex Tettey were fit. We’ll see!

Thanks as always.

As for Roberts I am sure we will see him soon, even if only from off the bench.

Indeed, Leitner when he came on, obviously had something to prove and made quite a difference to the team and I’d love to see him start on Saturday.
I was impressed with Cantwell and Hernandez looked good when he came on, so as you say- plenty of options for DF to consider.

I also reckon that Man Citeh will expect game time for Roberts, as indeed will Schalke 04 for Ralf Fahrmann, otherwise they wouldn’t have agreed to their respective loans in the first place.

However, to balance that we have paid considerable but fair prices for both loans (I’m assuming that on Roberts as I don’t know the loan fee in his case), but we know what Farhmann cost us), so ultimately Farke is in charge of when they play and when they don’t.

Amadou is different in that we have an option to buy when (if!) we stay up. I expect LOTS of game time for him.

So Friday night wasn’t a great surprise result wise, the team gave a good account of themselves and Big Grant scored an own goal. Nothing shocking there apart from the own goal rotten luck. But my word what a lot of encouragement to be gained from our naive (according to the pundits and big team centric national press) enjoyable no fear football. Should our team carry on in this vein a few teams may get a shock against little old Norwich. It was interesting over the weekend to note other teams playing the high press possession based football that we have become used too. Chelsea were particularly noticeable in implementing a change of style under Lampard and the good quality players they have looked uncomfortable with the ball at their feet and the lack of options for the short pass. However that will come. Tottenham also struggled for long parts of their game to break down a resolute Aston Villa defensive bank of nine however that changed following the introduction of Ericsson.
My point in this ramble about other teams switching styles of play to variations of the Norwich style is that we are two seasons into the education of our squad and that maybe the key to us retaining premier league status. However should we go back down we have such a well educated team of youngsters who will have gained vast experience tied to long contracts, the future can only be rosy.

Hanley was no worse than several others during a horrible first half. Talk of the exact same starting eleven playing Newcastle baffles me though. There are better options in the squad. Norwich were stunned by the quality, speed and physical prowess of Liverpool. The goal, growing into the game, the refusal to park the bus even when 4 down and a real hammering looked probable, i enjoyed all of that, but Liverpool won at a cruise. They did their thing and watched Norwich self implode under the shock and awe. By the time Norwich shook that off it was all over. Daniel Farke said he was “greedy” and wanted to do something special at Anfield but harsh lessons have already been learnt. I have no doubt that they are being acted upon.

The media response to our drubbing was all too predictable. Relegation certainties. Huddersfield in disguise. The results across the weekend have damped that down somewhat with some eye-catching scores. Norwich are not even in the relegation zone.

Everyone is excited about us repeating our second half Anfield display. We will be OK if we do that. But not repeating the first half display, that is where all the emphasis will lie. That is what will truly see us alright. OTBC

Morning Mr P. Monday morning already. Totally unfair to lambast him anywhere, for that. the sort of lash he made at the ball, you will see hundreds of times up and down the country at all levels, 9 times out of ten it would hit row Z. Theguy was/is 4th choice adn has had precious little time on the pitch. In fact he was making his first league start in almost a year,

When young Master Godfrey said. “It happens to all of us, it will happen to all of us at some point, it happens in one in however many games where it comes off your shin and goes in.” why should any terrace expert condemn the man.

It was sticking with a zonal marking plan that lead to other goals why on earth would anyone expect a 5ft 7in slip of a lad (brilliant as he is) get the better of a 6ft 6in monster and defender of the season. is a tad beyond belief. Then the wicked rebound. of Trybull into Salah’s path. So take the OG and that out of the picture it could have been closer, also had Macro had his sights alienged it would have been a different picture. Despite Carragher shouting his mouth of apprently, luckily the pub was pretty noisy so I could not hear what the bias numpty had to say.

I think McClean was a little overawed he could not seem to get into anything. if I am being a little critical Onel should have been brought on at the start of the 2nd half. to me we were crying out for width and his directness.

I know being fair does not come into a managers thought process too often, these guy have earned the right for another shot in a different type of atmosphere, not the cauldren of Anfield that is a baptism of fire. for the most expereinced premier hardened player.

But it is about results, the players who could give us a start, need to come in, Leitner is one, whether Amadou will be handed a start is anyone’s guess, to drop GH would possibly have a detremental effect not only on him but the young players around him. I cannot see where anyone had a stinker, if you believe social media (avoid like a plague or Main stream. again I read very little) Hanley was responsible for all 4 and globall warming too.
It is more a case of tweaking we must not forget that Krul and Hanley has more experience of this league than the manager, so give him time this season is about surviving by whatever one point one goal. There is a long way to go that was game 1 &, one of the hardest we could have been given, and I think we did far far better than that scoreline reflects.

Millions spent did not help Vanilla at Spurs , only Sheffield got a point with the easiest game of the the three.

As I said on Connor’s article yesterday I am no fan of zonal marking. If we’d stuck, say, the Stieperdude on VvD in the man-to man system he would at least have had to jump. If Zimbo or Klose had been available they would have matched VvD roughly for height-to height.

Jamal and Max are thoroughly excellent but in terms of defending set pieces against an incoming aerial ball they don’t stand a chance. But with the way we play we don’t need taller slower wide backs and thereby lies the rub.

It appeared to me that Hanley simply couldn’t adjust his footing in time to clear the ball away and we all know what happened as a result. I would be surprised if he started on Saturday tbh. Not because of that error alone – he’s not the quickest and hopefully Timm will be fit for the weekend

I would guess Marco Stiepermann’s starting spot might be at risk as well. Who knows.

Predictions can make you look foolish…Farke will make changes for Newcastle
Krull
Aarons
Godfrey
Amadou (yes, he will play as CB)
Lewis
Vrancic
Leitner
Cantwell
Hernandez
Buendia
Pukki
McLean will not make the bench…

Good read first thing on a Monday morning Martin and I agree with many of your many very eloquent comments. A season isn’t decided on one match especially against arguably the best club side in the world currently – Liverpool are a seriously good team with great counter-pressing and ultimately represent an enormous step-up from any side that we played last season. Success or failure this season will almost certainly depend on how we perform against teams outside the top 6.

Back to the game and it really was a mixed game with plenty to be proud of and a few ‘ouch’ moments. But more than anything, a reality check but with confidence that if we stand by our philosophy we will certainly create chances and score a few goals. The key will be managing that natural expansive play with the pragmatism of being solid at the back. On Friday, that balance wasn’t there – compounded by individual mistakes, but what impressed me the most was the learning you could see going through that 90 minutes.

It is always unpleasant to see individuals being pointed-out as scapegoats especially an honest player who gives 100% and puts themselves on the line. I think Grant Hanley had an okay game, sure he made a mistake (i.e. couldn’t adjust his footwork quick enough) but others did in the build-up to some of the other Liverpool goals too. As Ben Godfrey said, it could and often does happen to anybody. There have also been a few grumblings about Trybull-McLean and Stiepermann and similarly, it just seems fairer to judge them once they have got a junk chunk of games under their belts and when their performance can be considered more objectively.

On reflection what the game showed to me was the need for some real steel in the holding midfield position so Amadou I’m sure will be key and don’t discount Tettey either! Leitner also looked the part when he came – just seems to have that extra time and space on the ball….
OTBC

I think the last time I was credited with eloquence was when I was discussing my salary review with our head of HR back in the 1990s. Not sure it was the exact word she used but she caved in eventually and I got a result.

It’s funny how you put Liverpool down as the best team in the world. I went for the top three, not discounting Barca and Citeh, but friends have added Real and Juve to the equation to make it a certain top five.

No I haven’t discounted Tettey either. Not yet anyway.

The “ouch” moments you mention were a few too many. But I’m sure we will learn – I bet Farke has learned already – but I still feel we will be okay.

Hi Martin, at our last get together the general consensus was 4-1, so no surprises on Friday except the second half when we scored and they didn’t. And the gods were against us with a couple of their goals. It was always going to be perhaps the toughest of the tough games this season but the lads never let their heads drop. I’m going to stick with my forecast of a 12th place finish.

Liverpool’s first half offensive on Friday evening was a tour de force born out of an emotional response to a remarkable European Champions welcome from their legendary home support. Whoever Liverpool had played would have been severely tested in that first 45 minutes. However, I’m pleased it was us, a great occasion and it was good to feel proud in-spite of such a defeat.

Sitting with a large group of mainly Reds fans in a London sports bar on Friday made for a great evening and it was heartening to listen to several very complimentary scouser comments about our play, commitment and braveness. They reckoned we caused them more problems at Anfield than most other teams managed last season and reckoned we would ‘batter’ some opponents this season. It could easily have been so different had we have scored early but let’s not forget, Liverpool and Man City are in a league of their own.

I reckon same X1 on Saturday when we will be ‘on it’ from minute one after our own special Carrow Road welcome for the boys!

I spent a bit of time working in Huyton on and off and believe me the “Scousers” simply live for football. In my experience they’re very knowledgeable – the guys I mixed with knew as much about Everton as they did the Reds.

So, it’s City’s defence (or lack of it) that’s potentially going to be our downfall this season. 4-0 down before half-time in the first game tells you everything you need to know.

Except it doesn’t.

When you look at the results this weekend it appears we aren’t the only team with defensive problems.

West Spam, an established PL team many (including Pellegrini) see as potential European qualifiers? Hammered by the Champions.

Chelski, backed by billions, have the pick of any manager they choose. Hammered at Old Trafford. Yet before the floodgates opened there were hints that the United defence are not all that solid. Even City are vulnerable at times – if you can get the ball off them.

In the PL there is so much attacking talent, so much pace, and these days the laws of the game protect flair far more than they used to. Even the top 6 can struggle to keep clean sheets.

What really could do for us is failing to take advantage of chances. It did in the Atalanta match, and even against Toulose we should have had several more.

With Hughton gone from Brighton, I’m not sure there is any team in the division that is going to set up primarily to keep opponents out. Sheff U will be combatative but it doesn’t mean they won’t try to get forward. Maybe Burnley’s better players are in defence so they could be a little more cautious.

I just hope Martin doesn’t have to say IF ONLY Stieperman (or whoever) had his shooting boots on too often.

Re. Hanley: Friday’s error was unfortunate – in the build up you can see he was trying to marshal the defence and ensure everyone’s doing their job. How ironic that after Martin’s fall from grace post-Milwall a couple of years ago, Hanley was the saviour. The truth is though that last season our form improved immediately he was injured, not because he lacks leadership, or defensive ability, but because he simply isn’t good enough with his feet to play the way Farke wants to.

If it looks as though Andy Carroll is ready to resume his Newcastle career at the weekend then I wouldn’t be surprised if Hanley keeps his place. I definitely get the feeling that we are not going to keep many teams out for 90 minutes, so if we are to survive it’s up to Pukki, Leitner and co. to do the business at the sharp end.

As you say, clean sheets will be rare. That is asking an awful lot of the offensive side. Which is why re-balancing towards a more defensive set up is folly with this squad. Accentuating the positive whilst also improving defensive rigour…..That is all Farke can do. And trust him i do.

It wasn’t me who said “if only Stiepermann had his shooting boots on”. Must have been somebody else:-)

Your best of many good points was: “In the PL there is so much attacking talent, so much pace, and these days the laws of the game protect flair far more than they used to. Even the top 6 can struggle to keep clean sheets”. Totally true.

Wet Spam and Chelski? Yep, I agree too.

And as for Andy Carroll I agree Hanley would be a good choice to play against him. Both slightly rusty, both very tough. I could go on…

Hanley hardly has balletic feet but if the spectre of Carroll looms large he would be the ideal excorcist.

You have got to the nub of it, Mr Penney. The Webber planning is not just for this season and staying up. He is trying to build a base at the club for whichever future appears in May so instead of being broke we are either still in the EPL with some great kids coming through or relegated with some ready-made young stars to fill the gaps when we have to sell. I love the theory and I agree, I think we will still be mixing it with the big boys come August 2020.

A great read on a mixed morning of weather up here in Blackpool, Unless it slipped most people’s notice Blackpool won and Husband got sent off.

No matter who you support Fridays game was pure entertainment, and over the weekend city have received much praise for the way they played, I was surprised to read that some our saying it is the start to the countdown of Farke getting sacked surely he has enough credit in the bank for these idiots to keep quiet.

Hanley well as everyone is saying why lambast some one for something he could do little about and all 4 goals had an element of luck but then winning teams create their own luck, as city did last season.

Will city start with the same 11 not sure I think McLean was out of his depth and will need a few cameos to get up to speed, if Klose is fit personnally I would move Godfrey into the DM and have a pairing of Hanley and Klose and just maybe gave 2 up front.

One thing Carroll isn’t fit Bruce says 2/3 weeks to prove himself.

2 home games can we get 4 points that would be great but 6 and I will be in heaven.

There have certainly been a limited number of eejits making comments on antisocial media. I sometimes wonder if a few of them have ever kicked a ball in their lives, let alone been inside a football ground. But, que sera – everyone has an opinion.

I certainly did see the Husband incident on Quest. What was he thinking of fer Chrissakes?

The atmosphere surrounding the Tangerines seems to have enjoyed a ginormous boost since the demise of the Oystons. Good luck to Blackpool.

I’m now looking forward to the Newcastle game. Newcastle looked decent at times at the weekend but certainly beatable.

I assume Farke will stick with his favoured 4-2-3-1 formation. Given he rarely changes his sides apart from injuries then I have no doubts he will keep most if not all of his starters from Liverpool.

That doesn’t mean I can’t indulge myself by picking my starting XI.

Krul must start against one of his former clubs.
Aarons is still our best right back and will have learnt a lot from Friday
Hanley is fit so must start
Godfrey I thought looks a Premier League player, who will only get better
Lewis is our best left back and also has the talent to improve
Amadou to give a bit more physical presence and pace
Leitner is great on the ball and he buys the team time in transition
Buendia already looks a Premier League player and another who will continue to learn and get better
Steipermann deserves another chance as he got into decent positions and with more composure would have scored. I think he felt he had less time than he really had.
It is a real toss up for the left sided midfielder. There is a case for Roberts, Hernandez or Cantwell. I would go for Hernandez for his pace and directness.
Pukki is a shoe in.

We need to keep playing on the floor as most Premier League sides are full of giants. We will get the results that way. Our team have been coached in a way of playing for over a year. It would be asking too much to get them playing a different way without months of coaching in the new style and tactics. Our style definitely plays to their collective strengths of ball retention and dynamic passing.

Yes we’ve had some great comments today – I think we all realise what we’re trying to achieve however many bumps there might be on the road ahead.

I’ll endorse your view of Godfrey and Buendia by saying both are nailed on to play in the PL for the rest of their careers and quite probably will not be with us for that much longer in terms of months and years. If that isn’t the case, one of several clubs in la Liga will snap them up. Ben Godfrey in particular has impressed me very, very much.

And then there’s Aarons and Lewis – the same scenario applies to them although “wingbacks” tend not to attract quite the same level of kite.

Stuart Webber knows what he’s doing.

Although ironically I think one A. Neil esq acquired Godfrey, but never played him of course:-).

Whilst in days gone by you were right about wing backs, modern systems depend heavily on good wing backs. Look at the price of Wan Bissaka (if i’ve spelt that correctly). Liverpool are a good example. They would be much less effective without Alexander-Arnold and Robertson.

I hope we can keep our young guns for at least one more full season. Their value will at least double if they have good seasons.

Good stuff Mr Penney.
I’ve only seen the “highlights” as per MoTD and have to say that I honestly think we were overawed for the first 30 minutes or so. Plus, had they been fit, surely Klose or Zimbo would have been marking VvD and that outcome could have been so different. OK, the Steiperdude had a couple of chances but he just didn’t appear as fit as he was last season (and missed the 2 home friendlies)….I wonder if there’s a little injury niggle there??
Liverpool eased off after an hour (who wouldn’t at 4-0), and we then got the consolation our overall performance richly deserved.
Personnel changes for Liverpool…surely Leitner has to start but other than that I’m not too sure. Amadou for Trybull is also a possibilty. As for Roberts, given that he cannot play against Man Citeh I wonder if we’ll not see him in a league game until after that particular date – upsetting the rhythm and all that good stuff.

Apologies if anyone has already posted this, but apparently Aarons and Cantwell made history. Cantwell is the first with the forename “Todd” ever to play in the top flight, which seems slightly surprising, whilst alphabetically Aarons is first of all players at that level, which isn’t. This is all-time, not just PL.

According to The Times anyway. I wonder how they noticed? Definitely need to get out more (as do I for repeating it!).

There was a famous-ish American guitarist called Todd Rungren and there was also Sweeney Todd, aka the demon barber of Fleet Street who gave his name to rhyming slang as in Sweeney Todd/Flying Squad hence the brilliant Thaw/Waterman TV series The Sweeney.

Only one player would beat Maximillian in the list but it would have to be an aardvark.

The thing that struck me on Friday was that Hanley no longer fits in with the way Farke wants to play: the other 10 (or 13) on the pitch were happy with the ball at their feet, passing and moving, seeking out the ball and providing options to others. Hanley is an archetypal British centre back, solid but not great with his feet.
Every time Hanley got the ball in the first half, he knew he wasn’t supposed to boot it up the pitch, so he looked to pass to Krul first & mostly he did; in the second half, the rest of the team had worked it out and stopped passing to him – I can only remember a couple of occasions where he got the ball from a yellow after half time.

Very good stuff, Martin. Interesting that despite our “drubbing” at Anfield, we’re not in the bottom three.

Hanley’s error aside, there was some defending in the first 55 minutes which we simply have to improve. Some the learning and adaptation will come naturally; some I trust is coming from the coaches. But much to be encouraged by, including the fans’ backing.

I was also heartened by the players’ comments, fully supportive of each other. That was an important factor for us last year; it’ll be essential to maintain this time.

Watching MOTD again beause of course I am. The first goal made by an overlapping Byram making space for an advancing Tettey, that's right Tettey to take the ball wide, cross to win the corner. Hard to pick an MoM but Tettey was immense after so little football #ncfc

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