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but if that's true then JTG is not an SJ, because he used to ask me why

maybe it just means you care

like if you're an Fe dom you ask because you want to understand and help that person

sometimes I ask why for my own reasons, like seeking underlying patterns, even trying to figure out what someone is underneath, if they're sincere, sometimes Im totally leading to my own reasons

so it may not be as simple as one function, its possible there are different motives for several functions to ask why

I definitely think you're Pi though because you also said you don't like to do things without a plan

its so funny that my phone prompted me to write platok instead of plan ...it just did it again...

alright, I like to ask "why?" because I want to find the concrete, real underlying reasons why so it's not just a vague, abstract confession. I want to get beneath the confessions and find a meaning to it, because it drives me crazy when I don't know what something means.

Read up on Si and Ni. ESFJs and ENFJs are a lot a like but quite different. ESFJs seem more like a concrete, nurturing caregiver. They are quite adept at assessing and anticipating people's immediate needs. ENFJs are more emotional caregivers. They seem more concerned with the emotional energy of the room and focus on that. You sound more ESFJ to me.

ESFJs typically see me as someone who is impractical, oblivious, thinks too much, vague. I think the Ni makes us live in our head a bit.

@Title if you need meaning and you must have it, you may be an ENFJ with a ton of Se which would be why ESFJ and ESFP is confusing you, bc your motive for asking why sounds Ni. Tell me, do you have moments where you just know something? Like for example dreams, or you hear a song or see a sunset and just KNOW the answer to something you've been ruminating on? Because if you constantly ask why instead of what if, and get random feelings sometimes of just knowing, that really sounds like Ni.

@Title if you need meaning and you must have it, you may be an ENFJ with a ton of Se which would be why ESFJ and ESFP is confusing you, bc your motive for asking why sounds Ni. Tell me, do you have moments where you just know something? Like for example dreams, or you hear a song or see a sunset and just KNOW the answer to something you've been ruminating on? Because if you constantly ask why instead of what if, and get random feelings sometimes of just knowing, that really sounds like Ni.

Its how I figured out I was ISFP and not NFP, among other reasons.

I ask myself "what if" a good deal too, and other people as well -- but "why" is the thing I ask first. Say a friend said to me, "I'm really unhappy with these circumstances" my response would probably be, "Why are you unhappy with your circumstances?" and then "What if X were different?"

None of the "just knowing" stuff sounds familiar. One time in my life I had a dream that came true, but that's the only thing that comes to mind, I don't usually have any sort of epiphany-type moments where I just know the answer to something. I usually figure out the answer myself, and if I really care about a problem it drives me insane when I don't know the answer to it, and I'm prone to spending hours of research on one particular thing because I feel the need to know the answer to it for sure.

Originally Posted by Glycerine

Read up on Si and Ni. ESFJs and ENFJs are a lot a like but quite different. ESFJs seem more like a concrete, nurturing caregiver. They are quite adept at assessing and anticipating people's immediate needs. ENFJs are more emotional caregivers. They seem more concerned with the emotional energy of the room and focus on that. You sound more ESFJ to me.

ESFJs typically see me as someone who is impractical, oblivious, thinks too much, vague. I think the Ni makes us live in our head a bit.

What's the difference between a concrete, nurturing caregiver and an emotional one?
I can live in my head sometimes, too. I like to imagine my future or come up with scenarios I would like to happen, but I only really do that when I'm bored, or before I go to sleep, or something -- it doesn't usually affect the way I interact with other people.
I'll read up on it, though. Thanks.

Oh and if you only imagine what if scenarios prior to sleep or when bored, Id say Ne is your tertiary relief function, and that you also use Ne when trying to help friends with their problems. My ESFJ friend does that. One time the Internet wasn't working for me, so I worked with what was right in front of me with my hands, and did what worked: i set my "office" up in the closet, running an Ethernet cable straight into my laptop. My ESFJ friend asks me, after Ive done this for a week or more, "why the hell are you in the closet?!" i tell her and she immediately says what if we try this this or this. And we got my wifi working.

Shes not big on crazy Ne but uses it practically to support her Fe and Si, though sometimes she does weird incongruous things for fun (relief function) or loses her things because she's multi tasking.

I think this is true for somewhat healthy or normal ESFJs.

However in an Fe/Ne loop an ESFJ can act nuts, like overly extroverted and narcissistic and doing impulsive things that clash with what is normally a more careful or planful personality that is comfortable with the familiar or linear building of ideas, etc.

My ESFJ ex had Fe/Ne loops it made him seem like he had two personalities. One afraid to try new foods or sleep at a strangers house, and one madman doing impulsive destructive things.

ESFJs as concrete, nurturing caregiver are usually stronger at providing and anticipating other's practical immediate needs because they tend to remember specific details about people.

ENFJs are emotional caregivers because they are constantly reading behind others' words, actions, looking for patterns not out of boredom, it's fairly constant. But if you were to ask the ENFJ to keep track of details... it would not be their strong suit.

Both are fairly future-oriented but ESFJs are typically much more practical about it to fit their goals. ENFJs tend to live in the future because they tend live to what they deem as their "ideal vision" which isn't always practical.

Ni isn't really all that mystical. It's mostly about turning the "box" at different angles while Ne is more about thinking "outside the box". Turning the box at many angles leads to the aha moments. Ne is about expanding (brainstorming, deductions, what ifs) and Ni is about compacting (summarizing, inductions, whys).

Oh and if you only imagine what if scenarios prior to sleep or when bored, Id say Ne is your tertiary relief function, and that you also use Ne when trying to help friends with their problems. My ESFJ friend does that. One time the Internet wasn't working for me, so I worked with what was right in front of me with my hands, and did what worked: i set my "office" up in the closet, running an Ethernet cable straight into my laptop. My ESFJ friend asks me, after Ive done this for a week or more, "why the hell are you in the closet?!" i tell her and she immediately says what if we try this this or this. And we got my wifi working.

Shes not big on crazy Ne but uses it practically to support her Fe and Si, though sometimes she does weird incongruous things for fun (relief function) or loses her things because she's multi tasking.

I think this is true for somewhat healthy or normal ESFJs.

However in an Fe/Ne loop an ESFJ can act nuts, like overly extroverted and narcissistic and doing impulsive things that clash with what is normally a more careful or planful personality that is comfortable with the familiar or linear building of ideas, etc.

My ESFJ ex had Fe/Ne loops it made him seem like he had two personalities. One afraid to try new foods or sleep at a strangers house, and one madman doing impulsive destructive things.

Ah. That makes sense. Thank you for your perspective, it's helping a lot with this "tedious" journey on finding my personality type, you've been very helpful!

Originally Posted by Glycerine

ESFJs as concrete, nurturing caregiver are usually stronger at providing and anticipating other's practical immediate needs because they tend to remember specific details about people.

ENFJs are emotional caregivers because they are constantly reading behind others' words, actions, looking for patterns not out of boredom, it's fairly constant. But if you were to ask the ENFJ to keep track of details... it would not be their strong suit.

Both are fairly future-oriented but ESFJs are typically much more practical about it to fit their goals. ENFJs tend to live in the future because they tend live to what they deem as their "ideal vision" which isn't always practical.

Ni isn't really all that mystical. It's mostly about turning the "box" at different angles while Ne is more about thinking "outside the box". Turning the box at many angles leads to the aha moments. Ne is about expanding (brainstorming, deductions, what ifs) and Ni is about compacting (summarizing, inductions, whys).

Are you a guy?

Of course this is way over-simplified.

No, female.

I'm very good at keeping track of details -- so I guess that points to ESFJ?

I guess so? If you are just naturally very good w/ details, then there is a higher likelihood that you ESFJ.

If you aren't all that inclined to talk about things in the abstract (I mean that you don't find it all that interesting/relevant) and more inclined to discuss more practical, real-world things (I mean that you find it more interesting and relevant), than you are more likely to be an ESFJ.

From your posts, I would be more inclined to say ESFJ.

One test is to see if you relate at all to NFJ posters. If you can relate at a fundamental level what most of the INFJs say, than ENFJ.

I guess so? If you are just naturally very good w/ details, then there is a higher likelihood that you ESFJ.

If you aren't all that inclined to talk about things in the abstract (I mean that you don't find it all that interesting/relevant) and more inclined to discuss more practical, real-world things (I mean that you find it more interesting and relevant), than you are more likely to be an ESFJ.

From your posts, I would be more inclined to say ESFJ.

One test is to see if you relate at all to NFJ posters. If you can relate at a fundamental level what most of the INFJs say, than ENFJ.

Yes, I'm very detail-oriented.

I guess I would have to get a good example of abstract thinking.

I'm looking through the common INFJ problems thread -- the need for resolution is definitely something I can relate to. I also tend to take a while to talk about really big problems, mainly because I hate seeming weak and risking crying (whenever I get emotional, I cry. Whether I'm sad, angry, happy, whatever, I cry.) I do tend to put things off to the last second because, although I realize I should be doing them, I sometimes ignore that fact since I just don't feel like doing it.

I'm not embarrassed about being an emotional person, I find it really annoying when people are completely insensitive to other people's feelings. I don't tend to initiate relationships, I can if I want to but I usually wait for other people to come to me, or at least a good opportunity where I know we have something in common. I'm not usually stubborn, and I don't usually promise more than I can deliver.

It doesn't suit me to a T or anything, but there are a few similarities.