History repeats: Religious fanatacism, throughout the ages

Mobs of violent armed religious fanatics, streaming over the land, and destroying property, confiscating possessions and executing all who refuse allegiance to the faith. Pledging to rid the world of “infidels” and to establish the kingdom of the Lord, they lay waste to everything, committing unspeakable atrocities wherever they go. Terrorism at its peak.

No, not in Iraq or Syria, and not in 2014, but all over Europe in the 11th and 12th centuries. Brandishing white flags with red crosses instead of black flags with epithets, and carrying swords and clubs rather than automatic weapons and artillery.

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” — George Santayana

David Shander, Denver

This letter was published in the Aug. 14 edition.

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Christianity has done it several times throughout history such as the Spanish Inquisition period and their conquest of the Americas. The Muslims also did it centuries ago and now seem to be enjoying a revival.

irisman

The Thirty Years War from 1618 to 1648 was fought between Protestants and Catholics, and devastated much of Europe. The Holy Inquisition
in Spain and its colonies didn’t end till after Napoleon’s army invaded Spain and put an end to it. The fact that ISIS is reviving holy war in the 21st century is an atrocity, and the UN was established to stop such violence, but it has failed to do so.

holyreality

More people were killed for God than were ever killed for science and reason.

irisman

That’s true. Science and reason don’t kill people, that’s not what science and reason are about. Sometimes science has killed people unintentionally.

holyreality

I never saw documented atheists killing in the name of no-God.

IBXNJ

How about Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot????

DaftPunkd

How about reading comprehension?

“I never saw documented atheists killing in the name of no-God.”

holyreality

Good question, and common amongst the religious.

Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot may have been atheists, but they seized power and slaughtered masses of people to retain their power, not because they deny a God.

guesswhdrews

And most religious wars were used by secular leaders to retain or gain power, not really to serve God.

holyreality

Meanwhile the soldiers forced to war for religion killed for god while those conscripted for Communists killed for the motherland.

guesswhdrews

I always found that to be ironic. The communists did everything for the international movement till the Germans invaded and suddenly it was for Mother Russia. Not a lot of people have ever been FORCED to war for religion. But hundreds of millions have died for Communism or Fascism (some from war, but most simply for being enemies of the people, that is, they thought differently that their leftist leaders).

holyreality

PS
It was CENTURIES of war and carnage where a greater percentage of the population were killed for God before Stalin was a twinkle in his father’s eye.
You have three examples compared to thousands of religious leaders who led good men into wars where so many died for the glory of their God.

peterpi

Mr. Shander knows his history. After the call to arms for the First Crusade, but before they actually fought any heathen Saracens, the Crusaders practiced and honed their fighting skills back in Europe — against the Jews of what is now modern Germany. Historians think thousands of Jews died. Hey! All heretics look alike, right?

After departing Europe, the Crusaders crossed through the Byzantine Empire in what is now southern Turkey, hit modern northern Lebanon and started working their way south. Along the way, they saw an army dressed in Arab attire, racing towards them on horseback and on camels, yelling and ululating and waving spears, bows, pikes, and other implements of war. The Crusaders went into a defensive posture, stopped the Arab army’s advance, and slaughtered most of the soldiers. Some of the rest, they, um, “persuaded” to talk. It turned out the army was composed of Arab Christians, come out to greet them, and fight alongside them as allies. Oopsie.

holyreality

‘Some people’ say that the jihad is ongoing ever since Muhammad died.

eddie47

That could be true since their religion mandates it.

holyreality

I truly wonder how many American Christians are extreme enough to desire a Christian Caliphate. I’m nearly certain there is a segment who would approve of public stoning of gays and abortion patients but maybe that is my imagination after seeing so much hate from America’s religion of peace.

eddie47

Fortunately there are few who think like that but they do exist. The American Family Association ( Christian group) even went to Uganda and wrote their anti-gay laws. They advocated for the death penalty for gays and even jail time for family members or friends who came to the defense of homosexuals. Attacking a gay person was not considered a crime so you be the judge.

Ed Pearlstein

. Religion provides an excuse for all sorts of major and minor mischief.

And in the 20th Century those terrible men committed terrible deeds in the name of political movements called Communism and fascism (both socialist movements). The deaths from these two movements far surpassed anything religion did in 5000 years.

irisman

Fascism was Not socialist, but Communism was. Millions and millions of people were killed in names of Fascism and Communism. In Asia miliions were killed during WWII, not by ideology, but by Japan’s ambitions to build an empire. It shows you don’t have to be religious to kill large numbers of people. I said that science was not intended to kill people. I need to modify that statement to add, “but most advances in science led to advances in weaponry”.

guesswhdrews

Fascism was socialism. Here’s a link to what Mussolini saw Fascism as being (he himself was a socialist from early childhood).

“this will be a century of authority…a century of
Fascism. For if the nineteenth century was a century of individualism it may be expected that this will be the century of collectivism and hence the century of the State.”

What is truly scarey is that while Communism failed, fascism appears to be growing in popularity among the left in Europe and America. Fascism abandons taking over companies and instead taxes, regulates and ultimately controls them and the rest of society. I think that is why AGW is so popular with leftists because it completes this take over.

eddie47

I see we have a spook in the house! Mussolini was also a Corporatist who favored business and disliked communists and Jews. In your mind he was only a socialist when that was only a small part of the way he governed. Now Global Warming is “popular” because it is happening not because of some kind of “take over”. You are truly weird at times. Socialism is growing all over the world because for the simple fact every nation has it. That hardly makes the left Fascist for that is more of a hobby for the Elite of the world.

guesswhdrews

Except Mussolini was not a corporatist. He was a fascist.

eddie47

Stop confusing yourself. Hitler and Mussolini were both Fascists and each hated communism which of coarse you label as socialism. Both Hitler and Mussolini used corporations in an attempt to build their empires and very much encouraged corporatism. Most corporations fell right in line with their goals and it was rather like our Military Industrial Complex.. Money talks and businesses don’t care about what their product is used for.

guesswhdrews

And protestants and Catholics burned each other at the stake in the 16th Century. That didn’t mean they both weren’t Christians.

Here’s a quote from Hitler in 1927

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic
economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” –Adolf Hitler

Here’s another quote from Hitler: “”Of what importance is all that, if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the Party, is supreme over them regardless of whether they are
owners or workers. All that is unessential; our socialism goes far deeper. It establishes a relationship of the individual to the State, the national community. Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings.”

eddie47

Exactly for Hitler used that socialism (1927) to gain power and then once in power he turned against it. Then he purged socialists right along with anyone else who disagreed with him. We know what that lead to and it wasn’t a train ride to a mountain resort. This article is mainly about religion and even Hitler used the majority Catholics and Lutherans to enforce his policies against Jews, homosexuals and labor leaders. Like his using socialism Hitler also used religion to advance his causes even though he was pretty much an atheist by the time he solidified his power.

guesswhdrews

No he didn’t. Just as there are many forms of Christianity, there are multiple forms of socialism. Hitler was a man of the left. In 1918/1919 Hitler wore a red brassard and supported the short-lived Bavarian Soviet Republic.

eddie47

1919 is a big jump from 1939 . I bet even you changed in 30 years at that age. Many young people join all kinds of causes and drop out shortly after becoming involved. Enough of your weak attempt in calling me a liar since what I said was true. By your thinking since Reagan was a Democrat at one time ……so ALWAYS A DEMOCRAT.

guesswhdrews

You want something closer to 1939 and later? No problem.

“We have liquidated the Leftist class-warriors but, unfortunately, we forgot to carry the attack to the Right, That is our greatest sin of omission” Adolf Hitler, 24. February 1945

But lefties seem to think because the Nazi’s didn’t nationalize all big business they were on the right.

“Contrary to the Marxists, the Nazis did not advocate public ownership of the means of production. They did demand that the government oversee and run the nation’s
economy. The issue of legal ownership, they explained, is secondary; what counts is the issue of CONTROL. Private citizens, therefore, may continue to hold titles to property — so long as the state reserves to itself the unqualified right to regulate the use of their property.”–which sounds just like the leftist today. In fact, it is that control which is so common today which makes me call the EU a fascist organization.

holyreality

Corporatist = Fascist He said so himself.

guesswhdrews

Actually he didn’t. That is made up quote. It was first found in Michael C. Ruppert’s 2004 book Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil – almost 60 years after Mussolini died.

Socialist = Fascist whether you like it or not.

Pilgrim

That’s right, AGW is very popular with the leftists. Not only is it fun to taunt conservatives with this junk science, it also helps us with our sinister cause. We support the worldwide conspiracy among scientists and pointy headed professors so we can complete our fascist takeover.

I hope you were trying to be funny with the AGW leftist takeover stuff. Otherwise it’s really out there tinfoil hat paranoia….. even for you.

peterpi

He’s serious.

Fascism is socialism.
Just like:
War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

guesswhdrews

What was the name of the Nazi’s? Oh, yes, “The National Socialists German Workers Party.” National socialism was created during World War I when the Socialist movement was split in two with the International Socialism aka Communist Party remaining in tact and the various Socialist who remained loyal to they country becoming National Socialists.

So saying Fascism isn’t socialism is just like saying Protestants aren’t Christians, disagreeing with Obama is racist, and there isn’t a smidgen of corruption in the IRS.

guesswhdrews

“The chairwoman of the U.N. Framework Convention on Climate Change Ms Christiana Figueres of Costa Rica has concluded that “the political divide in the U.S. Congress has slowed efforts to pass climate legislation and is very detrimental to the fight against global warming” while “China is also able to implement policies because its political system avoids some of the legislative hurdles seen in countries including the U.S.”.

Translation: Democracy is detrimental to AGW supporters.

Grist Magazine’s staff writer David Roberts called
for the Nuremberg-style trials for the “bastards” who were members of what he termed the global warming “denial industry.”

Translation: Repeal the First Amendment for people we disagree with. Note he’s not the only one making this suggestion.

If you are looking for the tinfoil hat material, you can find that in abundance at the AGW supporters sites. For instance here is a list of links for things the left has blamed on AGW including everything from airplane crashes to teenage prostitution.

And we can look at the a few of the missed predictions by the AGW crowd.

Tipping points

May 11, 1983 Mostafa Tolba Executive director of the UN Environment Program warned that the turn of the 21st century would turn into an environmental catastrophe as complete and irreversible as a nuclear holocaust.

1989 the UN issued a 10 year tipping point.

2006 Al Gore created a 10 year tipping point.

2007 IPCC leader Pachauri declared 2012 as the deadline before it would be too late to fight climate change.

2009 James Hansen of NASA declared Obama only had his first term to save the planet.

2012 the UN foundation gave the earth a 4 year reprieve as “the last window of opportunity” to save the planet.

2014 the IPCC gave the earth 15 years to cut carbon emissions.

2014 Michael Mann gave the earth until 2036 before we cross the threshold.

Pardon us if we don’t believe you any more.

Pilgrim

No one takes conspiracy loonies seriously. Just saying.

guesswhdrews

But the loonies keep telling us that a change of .0003 parts of CO2 in the atmosphere will increase the temperature by as much as 4 degrees. And I think you believe them.

Pilgrim

Science is complicated and confusing isn’t it?

guesswhdrews

That may be because science is never actually settled.

toohip

WOW! So true!

“Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it, you’d have good people doing good things and evil people doing bad things, but for good people to do bad things, it takes religion.”
-Steven Weinberg

Ed Pearlstein

Religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

guesswhdrews

That’s not even a good bumper sticker. It is a variation of Samuel Johnson’s “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.” and as such is not even good plagiarism on your part.

eddie47

I’m sure he knew that and was making a point and since he didn’t use “patriotism” it wasn’t plagiarism. Religion can be both a blessing and a “last refuge of a scoundrel”. People have used religion to declare war, kill millions, control lives and hide pedophiles, etc. That makes those people scoundrels.

guesswhdrews

Sigh. Plagerism: “an act or instance of using or CLOSELY IMITATING the language and thoughts of another author without authorization and the representation of that author’s work as one’s own, as by not crediting the original author”

:

eddie47

You’d make a good lawyer! NOT! Your a petty mouse!

guesswhdrews

Is English a second language for you?

eddie47

Braille is my first. Sign language second and English 3rd.

Dano2

I’ll never forget a LTE I read as a young man, written by an old man who was lamenting some Imperial excursion America was on. His wisdom:

There will finally be peace on earth when the second to last man has died.

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