Shofar FTP Archive File: people/k/keren.daniel/1996/keren.0996

From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 10:39:16 PDT 1996
Article: 61468 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gassed again and again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5092dm$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:52:08 GMT
Lines: 14
This is, indeed, one testimony which is probably untrue.
It was given by a child, who was 11-years-old when the war
ended. A child of that age is not, of course, expected to
give a very accurate testimony, moreover after living in
a concentration camp.
I guess Giwer feels like a big hero, picking on a child?
Wouldn't it be better to try and look for a job, Matty?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 10:39:20 PDT 1996
Article: 61469 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ecologically minded SS
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508eam$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:39:00 GMT
Lines: 25
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
[From Morgen's testimony]
# ... When the last one was in, the doors were shut and the gas
# was let into the room. As soon as death had set in, the
# ventilators were started. When the air could be breathed again,
# the doors were opened, and the Jewish workers removed the bodies.
# By means of a special procedure... they were burned in the open
^^^
# air without the use of fuel."
Aha, that sneaky little devil. Once again, note how he carefully
edited out the part in which Morgen states that the procedure was
introduced by Wirth; therefore, he most probably was talking
about burning the corpses using large amounts of wood, which
was the method introduced in the camps of which Wirth was
in charge.
A smart little devil, that Giwer. Not smart enough to find a
job, though...
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 10:39:23 PDT 1996
Article: 61470 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: And Giwer Keeps Lying (Re: Keeping the Belsen myths going)
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5091jc$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:48:27 GMT
Lines: 25
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
A truly spectacular lie from Giwer; have a look, this is
classical "revisionist tactic".
# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
A lie, of course. Dr. Bendel
1) Said the gassing took place in Auschwitz-Birkenu, not Belsen.
2) Didn't say that all the people were murdered in one night.
This is, again, a typical "revisionist" tactic: lie about a
testimony, and distort what a witness really said, in order
to make him/her look unreliable.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 10:39:24 PDT 1996
Article: 61471 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Tom Moran's Forgery Of Prufer's Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 15:05:53 GMT
Lines: 22
karlpov@access5.digex.net (Charles R.L. Power)
# Oh, please. The absence of ">" marks at the beginning of Moron's
# own lines clearly indicated that they were his additions. He
# wasn't trying to fool anyone. It was just his infantile attempt
# at sarcasm.
Adding the ">" would have made it appear as if I posted the
forgery, which would possibly make it a criminal offense on
Moran's part.
You just don't realize how stupid he is. As a matter of
fact, his defense was "why would I do it in such a stupid
way"? Answer: because he is stupid.
I am convinced it was an attempt to forge the testimony; I
also recall that someone asked if Moran's forgery was part
of the true testimony, and Moran declined to respond.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 11:44:45 PDT 1996
Article: 61487 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <322489a2.7442483@news.spry.com> <506bdj$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:26:10 GMT
Lines: 37
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
[About the euthanasia gas chambers]
# And of course these rooms have never been discovered. Nor have any
# blueprints for them.
How do you know?
# Anyone with the slightest idea of the volume of compressed
# gas knows this is a ridiculous assertion.
More "scientific" rubbish from Matt Giwer, the same person who
claimed HCN will not evaporate from Zyklon at 20 degrees...
What the hell are you babbling about?
You put the people in the chamber. You release the CO into
it. The people die. What is so difficult to understand?
Are you claiming it would have been impossible to get enough into
a container to kill the people? Do you know how many parts-per-
million of CO will kill a person? And if they needed two
containers, so what?
# And of course there is no public record of the "public clamor" that
# that is what we have come to expect from these stories.
Another outright lie. Many letters of protest against the euthanasia
murders were sent; some are posted here regularly.
You're a useless liar. No, wait, you're not useless. You do serve
a cause. But not the one you think you serve.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 13:42:06 PDT 1996
Article: 61510 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The T4 Euthansia Program
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <503tus$sra@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <509tv5$3tss@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:40:14 GMT
Lines: 78
Testimony of Brack, regarding gassing of insane people in Germany
[Quoted in "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg Military
Tribunals" - Washington, U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1949-1953, Vol. I,
p. 876-886].
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q: Witness, when adult persons were selected for euthanasia and sent
by transport to euthanasia stations for that purpose, by what
methods were the mercy deaths given?
A: The patients went to a euthanasia institution after the written
formalities were concluded - I need not repeat these formalities
here, they were physical examinations, comparison of the files,
etc. Then the patients were led to a gas chamber and were there
killed by the doctors with carbon monoxide gas (CO).
Q: Where was that carbon monoxide obtained, by what process?
A: It was in a compressed gas container, like a steel oxygen
container, such as is used for welding - a hollow steel
container.
Q: And these people were placed in this chamber in groups, I
suppose, and then the carbon monoxide was turned into the
chambers?
A: Perhaps I had better explain this in some detail. Bouhler's
basic requirement was that the killing should not only be
painless, but also imperceptible. For this reason, the
photographing of the patients, which was only done for
scientific reasons, took place before they entered the
chambers, and the patients were completely diverted thereby.
Then they were led into the gas chamber which they were
told was a shower room. They were in groups of perhaps
20 or 30. They were gassed by the doctor in charge.
.
.
.
Q. What was done with the bodies of these people after mercy deaths
were given?
A. When the room had been cleared of gas again, stretchers were
brought in and the bodies were carried into an adjoining
room. There the doctor examined them to determine whether they
were dead.
Q. Then what happened to the bodies?
A. After the doctor had determined death, he freed the bodies for
cremation and they were cremated.
Q. After he had freed the bodies, had determined that they were
dead, they were then cremated? Is that correct?
A. Yes.
Q. There was a crematory built for every one of these institutions?
A. Yes. Crematoriums were built in the institutions.
.
.
.
Q. And these people thought that they were going in to take a shower
bath?
A. If any of them had any power of reasoning, they had no doubt
thought that.
Q. Well now, were they taken into the shower rooms with their
clothes on or were they nude?
A. No. They were nude.
Q. In every case?
A. Whenever I saw them, yes.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 13:42:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61516 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.white-power,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Message-ID:
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3228dc01.245303398@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32293b8a.2741910@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:54:11 GMT
Lines: 62
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28174 alt.revisionism:61516
Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
Irving's extreme dishonesty and deceitfulness
---------------------------------------------------
Together with Robert Faurisson, David Irving is considered by
Holocaust-deniers as a "leading revisionist" worldwide. It is not
absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far
higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).
Nontheless, it may be worthwhile to take a look at a typical
"Irving argument". Faurisson's "technique" of using outright lies
and deceit was covered in a different article.
In an article quoted a few times by "Jeff Roberts" on this
group, Irving is answering Pearson, during his appearance as
a witness in the Zundel trial; Roberts' text (and Irving's)
is preceded by "#".
# Pearson [prosecutor at the Zundel trial] mentioned a report number
# 51 dated December 1, 1942, which mentioned 363,211 Soviet Jews
# executed over the past three months.
#
# I can only repeat what I said previously, said [David] Irving,
# that this was such an extraordinary document, that the figure
# was so unusual [...].
#
# "This document is very much an orphan," said Irving.
This is an outright lie; Irving cannot directly challenge the
document, so he tries to cast doubts by claiming it is an
"orphan document", not supported by other documents.
Being the "leading revisionist scholar" he is, Irving must have
"forgotten" some other documents. His "orphan document" has,
in fact, many relatives; here are some.
1) Letter from Generalkommisar for white Russia, Kube, to Reichkommisar
for the Ostland, Lohse, 31 July 1942. Reports that 55,000 Jews
were murdered in the last ten weeks.
2) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941. Reports that so far up to
200,000 Jews were murdered in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.
3) Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich,
January 31, 1942. Reports that, so far, 229,000 Jews were
murdered in the "Eastern Territories".
4) Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941. Reports that, so far,
more than 130,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi-occupied Lithuania
Perhaps Irving never heard about these documents?
Perhaps he did, and he's lying through his teeth?
Either way, he's a "revisionist scholar".
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 13:42:08 PDT 1996
Article: 61519 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The T4 Euthansia Program
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <32221177.21659497@news.spry.com> <503tus$sra@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <509tv5$3tss@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 17:41:21 GMT
Lines: 33
Excerpts from the testimony of Alfons Klein, who was employed at
the "Euthanasia" (mercy killing) center in Hadamar
[Quoted in "The Hadamar Trial", p. 87]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Was there not an inspection of the Institution before October,
1940, in August, 1940?
A. There were two inspections by Landesrat Bernotat and two people
from the Ministry in Berlin. At the first inspection nobody told
me what the purpose of it was. At the second inspection it was
explained to me that the Reich administration had decided that all
incurable, mentally diseased people should be killed. Landserat
Bernotat told me that the Hadamar Institution was rented to Berlin
to the Gemeinde Stiftung.
[...]
Q. Who was in charge of this Foundation?
A. At that time I was told that the office of the Fuehrer was in charge
of it.
Q. During what period was this Foundation active in Hadamar?
A. From January, 1941, until August, 1941.
Q. What was done during that period?
A. Bigger transports of mentally diseased people came from different
Institutions. These mentally diseased people were taken into the gas
chambers and killed there.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 15:08:38 PDT 1996
Article: 61535 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <506cff$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:15:47 GMT
Lines: 24
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## Why does only one of the underground morgues have a gas-tight
## door? If both were shelters, both would have them, right?
# What is this both you are talking about? Trying to sneak
# something new in back the back door again?
Good old Giwer, still crazy after all these years.
Matty my boy, nobody but you - "revisionist" or "non-revisionist" -
has any doubt that each of Kremas II and III had two large
underground cellars. Nobody.
They are mentioned in the plans.
They are clearly visible today.
Give it up. Enough is enough.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 15:08:39 PDT 1996
Article: 61536 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flaming Kremas
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508f15$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:30:08 GMT
Lines: 13
Before starting to respond to this one, let's make one
point clear. Mike Stein, not long ago, had a long conversation
with a crematory operator. The fellow said that flames can
definitely come out of a crematorium chimney; the phenomena
even has a name: "a candle".
I guess you have missed that, Giwer? All this free time,
and yet you miss so much.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 16:26:37 PDT 1996
Article: 61564 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: defenders oif Keren
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5042ld$ff2@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50c1lf$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 21:58:11 GMT
Lines: 11
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Remember, jerkoff, I could retire at 46. You can no
# not and enver will be able to do that, child.
can you find a job?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 22:02:34 PDT 1996
Article: 61567 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: McVay's little boy mind
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 22:17:54 GMT
Lines: 12
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# Aside from his postings from his archives, he never can
# engage in any argument from his own thinking,
And you can? Like your claim that it would have made more
sense to use "liquid HCN" than Zyklon-B?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 1 22:02:34 PDT 1996
Article: 61568 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: What is amazing among the holohuggers
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50bvuk$g7u@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 21:56:09 GMT
Lines: 38
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# They really believe in spirits.
You don't have a job.
# Even more interesting, they believe in the Devil/Satan.
You're unemployed.
# Even more interesting there are more fewer atheists than
# there are people who believe in the devil.
You retired at the age of 46, probably because no one was
willing to hire someone like you.
# These are the holohuggers.
You are a failure.
# They are superstitious, religion beiieving basket cases.
You are a loser.
# They are so stupid that they really believe there was a
# Moses, that the Hebrews were in Israel and an dozen other
# things to stupid ot mention.
You are going down the tubes.
# They are dumber than dogshit.
They have jobs. You don't.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 2 09:28:09 PDT 1996
Article: 61652 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3228dc01.245303398@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <32293b8a.2741910@nntp.ix.netcom.com> <3229e0d7.9357956@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 08:09:04 GMT
Lines: 18
ursus_m@ix.netcom.com (Ursus Major) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## It is not
## absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
## neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
## 4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far
## higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).
# It's also a figure wildly in excess of that given by Jean-Claude
# Pressac, "Affirmer" bought-and-paid-for by the Karlsfelds.
I am not aware of Pressac making any comments on the total
number of Holocaust victims; if you know something, post it.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 2 15:04:30 PDT 1996
Article: 137981 of control
Control: cancel
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 1996 23:04:38 GMT
Lines: 1
was cancelled from within trn.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 3 07:43:47 PDT 1996
Article: 61865 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <506cff$nvc@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <50gi9f$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:50:51 GMT
Lines: 53
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## Matty my boy, nobody but you - "revisionist" or "non-revisionist" -
## has any doubt that each of Kremas II and III had two large
## underground cellars. Nobody.
# Then why did your "calculation" use the size of the entire
# structure rather than just of the room?
Matty, I have no idea what you're talking about. I *did* use
the size of only one room: the gas chamber, or "cellar I". It
is about 500 m^3 (30 X 7 X 2.4 m).
# Why did you agree with my calculation which used the total size
# of the structure?
I don't recal agreeing with anything you've ever claimed.
# BTW2: I only started that spreadsheet-which-is-really-not-a-
# wordprocessr after you gave the approximate dimensions of the
# entire building and proceeded to use them for the one and only
# calculation ever presented by an indentified non-CS major.
Gee, now I'm hurt. BTW, my B.Sc was indeed in pure math; later,
I switched to CS, in which I obtained my Ph.D.
# Yes, enough is quite enough. And do not forget, the layout is on
# Nizkor (the Holocaust's Attic) and if you want to insist upon your
# dimensions as the size of the room then the size of the entire
# structure can be determined.
The gas chamber (cellar I) was 30 X 7 meters in area. The "undressing
room" (cellar II) 50 X 8 meters.
# You will be amazed at how huge it is.
Do tell us. By "structure" you mean Kremas II & III?
# It will rival several modern structures as the largest ever
# by that construction technique.
Tell us more about it. But be careful. You don't want to post
any more incredibly stupid articles, which prove you cannot
handle basic arithmetic. So, take a friendly advice from a
non-friend: check your figures before you post. And DON'T
consult Tom Moran. He's usually off by two orders of
magnitude.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 3 07:43:49 PDT 1996
Article: 61871 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No "induction" holes here - kr2a.jpg (0/1)
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50g6vb$bkh@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:12:31 GMT
Lines: 8
Don't know, Matty - I can see them.
You probably don't know where the gas chamber is, in the
photo. Try again.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 3 13:20:58 PDT 1996
Article: 61940 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!nic.wat.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:55:46 GMT
Lines: 26
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# When does Israel plan to prosecute the witnesses against
# Demjanjuk for perjury?
Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?
Moreover so since one of the SS-men from the camp (Otto Horn)
picked up Demjanjuk from a photographic line-up as being "Ivan"?
# Or is that a silly question?
You're joking, right?
Soon, you'll be asking if your claim below is silly.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 3 13:20:59 PDT 1996
Article: 61946 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!uwm.edu!lll-winken.llnl.gov!enews.sgi.com!decwrl!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:27:26 GMT
Lines: 43
Matt Giwer still hasn't commented on the outright lie he posted.
To remind:
From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT
In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
Holocaust - they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this
witness was lying.
Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
not Belsen, and he didn't say they were all gassed in one
night.
Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
my French.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 3 20:09:56 PDT 1996
Article: 61997 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!loki.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!enews.sgi.com!super.zippo.com!zdc!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <50gg8i$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:49:45 GMT
Lines: 54
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# They have not been. Care to post them? A URL even? Stop
# trying to fake it. You are not good at it.
How do you know that none of the "euthanasia" chambers were
ever found? On what do you base this statement? Did you
read it somewhere? I'm just curious to know, in general,
what makes you say things.
I seem to recall that in Michael Burleigh's "Death and
Deliverance" there's a photo of one of these gas chambers;
I may be confusing it with a different book. I'll try
to check. I think it was in Brandenburg. If someone has
the book - I'll be grateful for help. I don't currently
have a copy.
# It is difficult to get through to a proclaimed PhD in CS
# who thinks spreadsheets have to do with word processing.
# You are a clear fraud.
Matty, what do you mean, exactly, by "fraud"?
Please, do not vent your anger, frustration, and inferiority
complex at me. I am not to blame for your life being a failure.
## Are you claiming it would have been impossible to get enough
## into a container to kill the people? Do you know how many parts-
## per-million of CO will kill a person? And if they needed two
## containers, so what?
# As I said, you have to know something about the subject first.
# As I have no idea what education you might have it is difficult
# to know where to start explaining it to you.
Your failure to reply is noted.
# I see. You are saying that when the program was described by
# holohuggers a few months ago as secret they holohuggers were lying.
Matty, the program was secret. But it's very hard, or impossible,
to keep something like this a secret for a long time. The German
population eventually learned of the mass murder of the insane
and mentally retarded, and began to protest; especially, the
clergy was very unhappy about the murders.
I routinely post here some letters about this, inculding letters
of protest from priests, and a letter from Himmler to Brack,
in which he notes that the attempt to keep the plan a secret
is not completely successful.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 3 20:09:57 PDT 1996
Article: 62001 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229ef9c.2660182@news.inetport.com> <50ehns$190@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:36:45 GMT
Lines: 55
Streicher? A truly revolting pig he was, and he finished at the end
of a sturdy rope.
Various excerpts from anti-semitic publications
[All taken from Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington,
U.S Govt. Print. Off., 1946, Vol. VIII]
-----------------------------------------------------------
p. 4:
[Speech by Julius Streicher, September 5 1937, reported in the
Fraenkische Tageszeitung]
The Jew no longer shows himself among us openly as he used to. But it would
be wrong to say that victory is ours. Full and final victory will have
been achieved only when the whole world has been rid of the Jews.
p. 7:
[Leading article by Streicher from "Der Stuermer" No. 39, September 1936]
The continued work of the "Stuermer" will help to ensure that every German
down to the last man will, with heart and hand, join the ranks of those
whose aim is to crush the head of the serpent Pan-Juda beneath their
heels. He who helps to bring this about helps to eliminate the devil.
And this devil is the Jew.
p. 19:
[Article signed by Streicher in "Der Stuermer", No, 12, March 19
1942, pages 1 and 2]
There were two ways which might have led to a liberation of Europe
>from the Jews: Expulsion or extermination! Both methods have been
tried in the course of the centuries, but they were never carried
to a conclusion...
The teaching of Christianity has stood in the way of a radical
solution of the Jewish problem in Europe...
Fate has decreed that it was finally left to the 20th century to see
the total solution of the Jewish problem. Just how this solution
will be achieved has been made known to the European nations and
to entire non-Jewish humanity in a proclamation read out by the
Fuehrer of the German people on the 24th February 1942:
Today the ideas of our Nationalsocialists and those of the Fascist
revolution have conquered large and mighty nations and my
prophecy will find its fulfillment, that in this war not the
Aryan race will be destroyed, but the Jew will be exterminated.
What ever else this struggle may lead to, or however long it
may endure, this will be the final result.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62084 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Moran's 'Scientific' Nonsense (Re: McVay's litt
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net> <322af4e8.2784752@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:28:59 GMT
Lines: 51
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## And you can? Like your claim that it would have made more
## sense to use "liquid HCN" than Zyklon-B?
# And you say it wouldn't? Try to explain it. Go ahead, try it.
I will let Dr. Peters do the explaining. Remember, Tommy, he
was the general manager of Degesch. The following is from his
book. Or, do you claim to know more about HCN and Zyklon than
Dr. Peters? You're a funny little boy, Tommy.
"the danger of the polymerization of liquid prussic acid, the difficulty
of transporting big containers: all this was overcome with absorbing the
liquid prussic acid in a suitable porous carrier material, and with
storing this material in simple but sturdy tin cans".
And more:
"The absorption in a suitable carrier material increases the durability
of prussic acid and therefore the possibility to store it over a long
time; its spreading in countless pores and over the large surface of a
porous material slows polymerisation, even when no stabilisator is
added. Additionally, the porous carrier material facilitates the
transport of prussic acid. It can be shown easily in an experiment
that a tin can filled with liquid prussic acid only will burst open on
the ground after a fall of a couple of meters, while a can filled with
an equivalent amount of granular material soaked with prussic acid,
will only suffer big dents: the liquid in the can does not give way,
the granular filling may be compressed easily".
And yet more:
"Further, the absorption results in a reduction of danger because even
in the case of a damaged container, never a large amount of liquid leaks
out at once, but only relatively small amounts of gas; cracks, pores
and similar faults in the transport-material will result in loss of
prussic acid, which is unpleasent under technical considerations, but
not in accidents. Most importantly, the absorption increases the ease
of use of prussic acid: handling containers with solid contents has
more advantages than handling those with liquid content: granular
material can be spread more easily on surfaces than liquid prussic
acid: this is especially important for the quick evaporation of the
gas and for achieving a fast increase of the gas concentration".
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:00 PDT 1996
Article: 62100 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: A minor question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fsoc$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 05:51:02 GMT
Lines: 24
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Why is that didn't discover anything peculiar about
# Auschwitz until after the end of the war?
Indeed, a minor question from a very minor person, and a lie,
too; certainly, it was known before the end of the war what
was happening in Auschwitz.
Does this mean that it was known to each and every person in
Europe? No; it may come as a shock to the Giwer, but there
was no CNN then. But, did the Nazis succeed to completely
hide the truth? No.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:01 PDT 1996
Article: 62131 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50ggri$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <50h0hd$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:15:28 GMT
Lines: 36
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## There is plenty of physical evidence: some of the gas chambers,
## cyanide traces on their walls, large amounts of human remains
## in some of the camps, numerous documents, photographs.
# Cyanide traces are everywhere.
"Everywhere"? You're out of your mind, Matty. Seek help.
# No significant amount of human remains anywhere, even Babi Yar,
In Treblinka? Over a large area, to a depth of 7.5 meters?
In Maidanek?
# three possible documents if you are paranoid enough.
"Three"? Many more, of course.
# No photographs fo interest whatsoever.
Now, now.
# Are you a vegan missing basic proteios?
Relax, Matty. Have another drink.
# Your jealously is overwhelming. Why do yo not retire?
Because there are people who are willing to hire me. Can you
find someone willing to hire you?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:02 PDT 1996
Article: 62132 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: IMT #11
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gnur$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:07:17 GMT
Lines: 17
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com writes:
[Testimony about tattooed human skin collected by the SS
in some camps; Giwer, apparently, does not believe it]
There is no question that the SS, in some camps, kept
such items; one can see them, and the shrunken human heads
in Buchenwald, in the films taken after liberation, and
in many photographs. There is also a pathological report
proving that it is indeed human skin; it was posted here
quite a few times.
See photos in
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/buchenwald/images/
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:03 PDT 1996
Article: 62146 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: McVay and PORNOGRAPHY
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gtv0$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com> <322CA4BC.2FDF@rio.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 06:55:47 GMT
Lines: 19
Yes, Chuck - Streicher was one revolting swine indeed. I recall
that one short entry in Goebbels' early diary reads "... and then
Streicher spoke. Like a pig". Can you imagine someone so revolting
so as to make Goebbels, himself an arch-swine, to refer to him as
a "pig"?
I wonder if the last sound he made, when dangling from the
rope, was a little pig squeal.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:04 PDT 1996
Article: 62154 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!news.cais.net!op.net!news.ironhorse.com!news.uoregon.edu!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gqqo$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:08:32 GMT
Lines: 21
rblackmore@juno.com (who also uses the "jbellings" alias), writes:
# At Bergen-Belsen, 13,000 deaths occurred in a six week period
# following the liberation. Between April 30 and June 16, 1945,
# 2,466 deaths were recorded, with diminishing numbers thereafter.
# Deaths were due to typhus, tuberculosis, malnutrition, dysentery
# and other causes. And I suppose Kramer is responsible for all
# that too?
Yes, of course; he and the other Nazis. They tortured, mistreated,
and starved these people to such an extent that they died later.
If person X shoots person Y, and Y dies after a month in the
hospital because of the gunshot wound, X is still guilty of
murder. What, exactly, do you fail to understand?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 07:05:04 PDT 1996
Article: 62186 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.exodus.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <3229C0C8.9C7@kaiwan.com> <50ggri$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 06:33:53 GMT
Lines: 23
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Have you found any physical evidence for it yet? The
# world is waiting.
There is plenty of physical evidence: some of the gas chambers,
cyanide traces on their walls, large amounts of human remains
in some of the camps, numerous documents, photographs.
Why don't you find a job? You're boring, Matty. I don't think
this very early retirement was a good idea. You're really
going down the tubes.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 09:23:29 PDT 1996
Article: 138573 of control
Control: cancel
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 1996 07:49:50 GMT
Lines: 1
was cancelled from within trn.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 09:28:56 PDT 1996
Article: 62229 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Troll Parades His Ignorance and
Message-ID:
Foolishness: Diesel Engines Summary:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50h5uj$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <50ikjb$8sv@Networking.Stanford.EDU>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:48:00 GMT
Lines: 16
rajiv_gandhi@bc.sympatico.ca (Rajiv K. Gandhi) writes:
# Documentation of this ?
He's talking about Yichya Ayash, who masterminded some
of the attacks on civilian buses in Israel, and also
prepared the bombs. Ayash was killed when a small
explosive charge hidden in his cellular phone exploded
and blew half of his head off.
No one took responsibility for this action.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 12:55:38 PDT 1996
Article: 62302 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50jl1k$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:25:15 GMT
Lines: 26
It's hilarious to see poor old Giwer try to get away with
an outright lie he posted. This is one lie he simply cannot
defend. And it's driving him bonkers.
Matty, it's very simple. You posted:
In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
Name the witness, Matty. That's all. If you don't, it means
you lied. That's it.
You claimed this witness, this Jewish physician, was a
living person, who gave this testimony. Post his name.
That's it. A fair request, I think.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 16:49:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62320 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gas-tight doors
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500pqb$a0r@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50jo14$6n3@morgana.netcom.net.uk> <50jtbd$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:47:55 GMT
Lines: 20
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
[To amcl@netcomuk.co.uk (Angus M. McLellan)]
# For mongoloid idiots like you, I have never read Butz.
But remember folks, "revisionists" never call anybody names.
GET A JOB, GIWER, YOU SORRY UNEMPLOYED BUM.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 16:49:49 PDT 1996
Article: 62321 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <322C9C17.22AA@rio.com> <4SEP199606073620@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:54:05 GMT
Lines: 13
dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:
# Is there corresponding evidence that Demjanjuk was guilty?
He was trained in Travniki and stationed in Sobibor. His photo
was picked by a few survivors and an SS-man as that of "Ivan".
Either he's indeed Ivan, or he sure looks like him.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 16:49:50 PDT 1996
Article: 62323 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news.bright.net!chi-news.cic.net!ddsw1!news.mcs.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50jl1k$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com> <322dc0a8.9201753@news.spry.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 19:54:10 GMT
Lines: 34
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) wrote:
# The defense was not permitted to challenge
# witnesses in those trials.
Another outright lie from "revisionist scholar" Matt Giwer.
The defense was very much permitted to challenge the
witnesses; one just needs to look at "The Belsen Trial".
A random sample, page 136; the witness Sompolinski is
cross-examined by Major Winwood:
"You allege that two friends were shot by [commandant of
Birkenau and later Belsen] Kramer. When did you think of
this story?"
"When I was wounded myself"
"I suggest that you first thought of this story about five
minutes before you mentioned it?"
"That is not true".
Matty, what do you have to say for yourself? You are, indeed,
an ugly, revolting, deplorable liar. Do you think that posting
all these lies increases the chance that someone will ever
hire you (except for the IHR that is)?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 16:49:50 PDT 1996
Article: 62343 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50jgsh$1b7@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:09:59 GMT
Lines: 21
rblackmore@juno.com (aka jbellings), writes:
# Mr. Keren-I don't know why, but I expected more from you.
# Are you suggesting, as apparently you are-that Streicher
# deserved death simply because of what he wrote as quoted
# above, or similar statements?
Not an easy question. Would I have sentenced Streicher to
the rope, had I been the judge? It's very possible that I
would not have.
But, regardless of that, he was indeed one revolting
swine; and I still bet that the last sound he made, while
dangling, was a little pig squeal.
Are you a happier person now, or did I disappoint you
once again?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 16:49:51 PDT 1996
Article: 62354 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.cstone.net!news.accessone.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-ana-24.sprintlink.net!newsreader.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-chi-13.sprintlink.net!news.us.world.net!news.inc.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!hunter.premier.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewish Ingratitude Towards Nazi Humaneness
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <500dpi$ojs@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <50h1au$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:19:34 GMT
Lines: 16
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
I will try and look for the Burleigh book.
# You simply are not what yuo claim to be. That makes
# you a fraud.
Please be more specific. This is still too vague.
# Post the URL. No gas chambers, no bodies,
Plenty of gas chambers, Matty, and plenty of human remains.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 16:49:52 PDT 1996
Article: 62377 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50h0hd$am9@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <50jrcm$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:42:22 GMT
Lines: 19
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Fumigation was everywhere, traces are everywhere.
Nope. Factually incorrect. Sorry about that.
# Why would I hire someone who lies about his degree
# field? And if not lying your are not qualified in CS.
Matty, it's not my fault that your life has been a
failure; that you're a loser, a hateful, unemployed
bum, who hates himself and everybody else. You may
hate me - that's your right - but don't blame me for
your life being what it is. It ain't my fault, Matty.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 4 23:30:12 PDT 1996
Article: 62460 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50jjd9$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:18:19 GMT
Lines: 33
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## Can you prove that they are guilty of perjury?
# He was not in the camp described. Therefore they lied.
# What is so hard about that?
Correction: it was not possible to prove beyond a reasonable
doubt that he was in Treblinka.
You say he wasn't. But you also said that Belsen camp was
in Poland.
## Moreover so since one of the SS-men from the camp (Otto Horn)
## picked up Demjanjuk from a photographic line-up as being "Ivan"?
# So what?
"So what"? As Peggy Bundy says, "you ARE an idiot", Matty.
# Fact is, everyone who identified his is a lying Jew.
Including the SS-man Otto Horn? He's also a Jew?
You're going down the tubes, Matty. Find a job, and do something
useful for mankind. This early retirement didn't do you any
good.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:43 PDT 1996
Article: 62470 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Flaming Kremas
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508f15$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50gntm$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:05:39 GMT
Lines: 33
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com wrote:
[About Mike Stein's conversation with a crematory operator,
who told him that flames can definitely come out of a crematorium
chimney]
# But I did read that one. What he left out was the damage done
# to the chimney but that is neither surprising nor unexpected.
But the Birkenau chimneys were, indeed, damaged. See "Anatomy Of
the Auschwitz Death Camp". p. 197.
# Nor is that fact I have have driven passed a particular
# crematorium hundreds of times at all times of the day and night
# and have never seen such a thing.
Because they are not run like the ones in Birkenau were run,
that is, they don't have to cope with burning such a huge
number of corpses.
# And in addition, we have the admission of those who have
# described those flames that they were lying, made it all up.
We have nothing of the sort. You are hallucinating, once again.
You're losing it, Matty.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:44 PDT 1996
Article: 62475 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!news3.epix.net!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BRAM STOKER'S DRACULA
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50gnes$rdg@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:05:11 GMT
Lines: 20
rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# Concerning the above, read an excerpt from Louis Marschalko:
#
# "At the end of 1945, new inmates appeared in the concentration
# camp of Dachau. But these were no longer Jews but some of the
# defeated German people-the "war criminals". They were ordered
# subsequently to build various additional auxiliary buildings with the
# greatest possible speed....the workers received orders to dig a blood-
# pit with a drain pipe for draining off the blood, because it must
# be made to appear that here Jewish blood had been flowing in
# streams."
I thought this was a drain near the place where people were shot;
isn't it still in Dachau?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62477 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Gassed again and again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5092dm$ppv@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50goti$e1n@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 05:07:49 GMT
Lines: 38
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Elie Wiesel was 14 when he started lying
You, Matty, started lying the minute you could talk,
and you didn't stop since.
# and was younger when he "witnessed" the geysers of blood from
# bodies that can not be found.
He explicitly said that he didn't see them, but was quoting
a witness; we have been through this a few times, but then
again, if you weren't senile, maybe you could find a job,
right? Re these "geysers of blood", see
"In March, 1942, Albert Hartel, a Gestapo expert on church affairs,
was driving with Blobel towards a country villa outside Kiev used by
Major-General Thomas, the Security Police Commander.* At the Babi
Yar ravine Hartel noticed small explosions which threw up columns of
earth. It was the thaw, releasing the gases from thousands of
bodies, and Blobel explained: 'Here my Jews are buried.' "
[From Reitlinger's "The Final Solution"]
So, I agree, "earth mixed with blood", would have been more
accurate. But the testimony is, on the whole, true.
# Anne Frank was 12-13 when her father lied in her stead or she
# lied for herself at that age, your choice. But you know that.
I know nothing of the sort. I only know that you are a low-life
swine, who thinks it's funny to joke about a young girl who
was murdered by the Nazis. I guess that, somehow, your defective
brain has extrapolated that she is also one of the evil Jooooos,
who is "responsible" for your failures in life.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:45 PDT 1996
Article: 62507 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another 'Revisionist Breakthrough': NO WAR IN CECHNIA!
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 05:37:37 GMT
Lines: 18
How come only I noticed this? Folks, what is ZOG paying
you for?
Saw yesterday, on CNN, that General Lebed gave a figure
for the losses in the Cechnia (sp?) war which is different
by a factor of 3 than what was accepted till now.
As we all know, a standard "revisionist tactic" is to
claim that when conflicting figures for the number of
victims is given, this proves the corresponding event
never took place.
Mark it down, people. Another "revisionist" breakthrough:
"no war in Cechnia!".
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:46 PDT 1996
Article: 62518 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!news.infi.net!imci5!imci4!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer's Lies About Belsen Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50jl1k$92f@dfw-ixnews6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:28:11 GMT
Lines: 15
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Judges threatened witnesses with imprisonment if they did not
# admit to gassing in those trials.
Name the judges and the witnesses.
A simple, fair request.
Name them. If you don't, this will be added to the
list of your lies, which will be posted here.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:47 PDT 1996
Article: 62580 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: worth repeating
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50mfcn$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:22:20 GMT
Lines: 44
Matt Giwer still hasn't commented on the outright lie he posted.
To remind:
From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT
In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
Holocaust - they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this
witness was lying.
Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
not Belsen, and he didn't say they were all gassed in one
night.
Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
my French.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62581 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!gatech!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50lua8$1sf@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:59:46 GMT
Lines: 45
rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# The people at Belsen did not die from gunshot wounds-
Some did - most were starved to death, though.
# they died from being overcrowded by the thousands at the end of
# the war-thousands of people all crammed into a camp which was
# never meant to hold such inflated numbers-
No. They died because they were not given food, although
there was plenty of food. And because they were not given
water, although there was plenty of water.
# and Kramer is not to blame for that.
Oh yes he is.
# He made a good faith attempt to do what he could for them,
Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
should you care?".
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
# why don't you stop distorting the picture further?
Why don't you say something which is not utterly stupid, for
a change? You're starting to bore me, jbellings, or rblackmore,
or whatever you call yourself.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:48 PDT 1996
Article: 62582 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Can you question this answer?
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322d78c6.1001502@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:04:51 GMT
Lines: 17
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# Answer:
#
# Germany, France, England, Russia, Canada, United States and the
# Christians, to name a few.
#
# Question:
Gee, zeyde, I'm not sure...
How 'bout "what do the evil Jooooooos control?". Is this what you
meant, zeyde?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 07:28:49 PDT 1996
Article: 62583 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Burmeister Testifies About Chelmno Death Camp
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:35:30 GMT
Lines: 35
Testimony of gas-van driver Walter Burmeister
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 219-220]
------------------------------------------------------------
As soon as the ramp had been erected in the castle, people started
arriving in Kulmhof from Lizmannstadt in lorries... The people were
told that they had to take a bath, that their clothes had to be
disinfected and that they could hand in any valuable items beforehand
to be registered...
When they had undressed they were sent to the cellar of the castle and
then along a passageway on to the ramp and from there into the
gas-van. In the castle there were signs marked "to the baths". The gas
vans were large vans, about 4-5 meters long, 2.2 meter wide and 2
meter high. The interior walls were lined with sheet metal. On the
floor there was a wooden grille. The floor of the van had an opening
which could be connected to the exhaust by means of a removable metal
pipe. When the lorries were full of people the double doors at the
back were closed and the exhaust connected to the interior of the
van...
The Kommando member detailed as driver would start the engine right
away so that the people inside the lorry were suffocated by the
exhaust gases. Once this had taken place, the union between the
exhaust and the inside of the lorry was disconnected and the van was
driven to the camp in the woods were the bodies were unloaded. In the
early days they were initially burned in mass graves, later
incinerated... I then drove the van back to the castle and parked it
there. Here it would be cleaned of the excretions of the people that
had died in it. Afterwards it would once again be used for gassing...
I can no longer say what I thought at the time or whether I thought of
anything at all. I can also no longer say today whether I was too
influenced by the propaganda of the time to have refused to have
carried out the orders I had been given.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 09:13:15 PDT 1996
Article: 28501 of alt.politics.nationalism.white
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Kan Kleim Klean up his act?
Message-ID:
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50kda3$klu@jerry.loop.net> <50kgaa$sr4@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <50m3bn$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:38:27 GMT
Lines: 17
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28501 alt.politics.white-power:42042 alt.revisionism:62612
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# That is because, without cause, I was libelled in a manner
# that is worthy of being answered in blood.
What's this, Matty my boy? Yet another death threat? You're
posting about one per week, it seems.
Wouldn't it be better to try to find a job? You retired
at the age of 46, 5 years ago. Maybe, if you put all your
power into it, you could still find a job of some sort.
It may help your mental condition.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 10:20:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62603 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Malzemueller Testifies About Chelmno Death Camp
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 13:33:37 GMT
Lines: 40
SS-man Theodor Malzmueller on the Chelmno extermination camp
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 217-219]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
When we arrived we had to report to the camp commandant,
SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Bothmann. The SS-Haupsturmfuehrer addressed us in
his living quarters, in the presence of SS-Untersturmfuehrer Albert
Plate. He explained that we had been dedicated to the Kulmhof
[Chelmno] extermination camp as guards and added that in this camp the
plague boils of humanity, the Jews, were exterminated. We were to
keep quiet about everything we saw or heard, otherwise we would have
to reckon with our families' imprisonment and the death penalty...
The extermination camp was made up of the so-called "castle" and the
camp in the woods. The castle was a fairly large stone building at the
edge of the village of Kulmhof. It was there that the Jews who had
been transported by lorry or railway were first brought...
When a lorry arrived the following members of the SS-Sonderkommando
addresses the Jews: (1) camp commandant Bothmann, (2) Untersturmfuehrer
Albert Plate from North Germany, (3) Polizei-Meister Willy Lenz from
Silesia, (4) Polizei-Meister Alois Haeberle from Wuerttenberg. They
explained to the Jews that they would first of all be given a bath and
deloused in Kulmhof and then sent to Germany to work. The Jews then
went inside the castle. There they had to get undressed. After this
they were sent through a passage-way on to a ramp to the castle yard
where the so-called "gas-van" was parked. The back door of the van
would be open. The Jews were made to get inside the van. This job was
done by three Poles, who I believe were sentenced to death. The Poles
hit the Jews with whips if they did not get into the gas vans fast
enough. When all the Jews were inside the door was bolted. The driver
then switched on the engine, crawled under the van and connected a
pipe from the exhaust to the inside of the van. The exhaust fumes now
poured into the inside of the truck so that the people inside were
suffocated...
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 10:20:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62613 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <322C9C17.22AA@rio.com> <4SEP199621281650@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:44:41 GMT
Lines: 24
dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:
# But there is, what? Seven inches difference in height?
Is this known? How do you know what "Ivan's" height was?
# And the photos were picked out 50 years after the fact.
The process started at 1981, didn't it? Also, were not much
older photos of demjanjuk presented?
# And there is some evidence he was at another camp?
Yes, that's true. But many SS-men were at more "Reinhard"
camp than one: Stangl, Lambert, Franz...
# I am not asserting that Demjanjuk was not Ivan, I am merely
# asserting that there is some basis for reasonable doubt.
Which is why the Israeli court let him go.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 13:06:25 PDT 1996
Article: 62652 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50kmaj$kl@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <50md1t$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <50mvh1$avv@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 18:46:36 GMT
Lines: 30
libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
# Matt Giwer (mgiwer@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
## libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) wrote:
### This is in addition to the fact that Demjanjuk's
### defense was based on his not being Ivan because he was
### actually a totally different SS guard at another death camp.
## Which makes everyone ever involved with the Mossad murderers.
# Wow! There must be a logical link in there somewhere,
# but I can't find it...
I wish to offer my help; with all modesty, I consider myself
a leading internet authority on the Giwer.
My guess is that he means "you're saying that because
Demjanjuk served in a death camp makes him a murderer
because there were murderers in other death camps, so
that also means that since there are murderers in the
Mossad this implies that everyone who was involved with
the Mossad a murderer".
You know - it scares me to think that I actually
understand what he's trying to say. This is not a
good sign.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 13:06:26 PDT 1996
Article: 62659 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: All mouth - No substance
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322b1602.11258361@news.pacificnet.net> <841882418snz@abaron.demon.co.uk>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 05:19:46 GMT
Lines: 47
Alexander Baron writes:
# Actually, this is one of the biggest Exterminationist
# tricks. They make outrageous claims, lies,
Sigh. Al, who was it that blatantly distorted Hoessler's
and Bendel's testimony, quoting them as saying things they
never have - and later whining about it being a "mistake"?
It was you, Al. I wasn't going to mention this, but you
leave me no choice. I must say I'm disappointed; I thought
you were going to make more sense now. Personally, I have
a somewhat better opinion on you than on most of the Nazi
rabble that posts here.
# Does anyone remember the thread about the photograph of the
# gas chamber that was supposed to exist in action? This is
# mentioned by Reitlinger.
I have it; as I said, unfortunately, it's a rather low-quality
xerox copy. I am trying to get better copies. Takes time.
# Then there are the documents which are supposed to refer to
# extermination. They are all quietly forgotten now.
You're joking, right? This is just unbelievable.
Jager's report, about one Einsatzkommando killing, in one
area, during 5 months, over 130,000 Jews - is not proof
of extermination?
Wetzle's letter to Lohse, stating that Jews "unfit for work"
will be killed with poison gas, is not proof of extermination?
Just two among many.
Stop Giwering us, Al. I really believe you can do better,
else I would not have put a considerable effort into
e-mailing with you.
Posted/e-mailed.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 5 13:06:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62660 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Moran's 'Scientific' Nonsense (Re: McVay's litt
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3229c686.7920844@news.pacificnet.net> <322c2506.2723565@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 05:26:31 GMT
Lines: 9
Bloody incredible. It seems that Tommy Moran, who proved here,
again and again, that he cannot even handle basic arithmetic,
claims to know more about Zyklon-B than Dr. Gerhard Peters,
the general manager of Degesch (Zyklon manufacturer), and author
of a book and research articles about Zyklon.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:27 PDT 1996
Article: 62810 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <322C9C17.22AA@rio.com> <50mvh1$avv@lendl.cc.emory.edu> <5SEP199617510463@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:38:48 GMT
Lines: 13
dmittleman@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu (Danny Mittleman) writes:
# There is some validity to this analogy. I don't think
# we know enough about Demjanjuk to conclude he was guilty
# of much of anything.
Didn't the Ukrainian guard Danielchenko testify that
Demjanjuk was one of those who "escorted" the victims to
the gas chambers?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:28 PDT 1996
Article: 62863 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Julius Streicher - Pornographer 2 Sara
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50ohc4$rhh@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:35:06 GMT
Lines: 37
rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# See my STREICHER-EHRENBURG Post-You can't have it 2 ways.
This is, in fact, a point worth responding to.
But first, it is important to understand: the questions
of "what did Streicher and the Nazis do", and "did they
deserve to die for it", are very different problems.
Personally, I am not that much interested in the legal
points, that is, questions of the type "was it justified
to hang the Nazis for the crimes they committed, while
Bomber Harris was not punished?". What I'm interested in
is the documentation of Nazi crimes and the Nazi ideology
that led the Germans to commit these crimes.
So, I don't really care for the question "was it justified
to hang Streicher?". If I had to make the decision myself,
that would be a different matter; but the revolting swine
was hanged. Does it bother me? Not really.
Finally, on your "STREICHER-EHRENBURG" analogy: there's a
very basic flaw in it. Ehrenburg's propaganda was
indeed hateful and violent - and I don't like it - BUT,
he was referring to an enemy which attacked his country,
regarded its citizens as "sub-humans", and butchered numerous
innocents.
Streicher, on the other hand, propagated hate against a
defenseless "enemy" which was guilty of no crime, and
openly called, again and again, to butcher and annihilate
this "enemy". If you can't see the difference, you're
really crazy.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:29 PDT 1996
Article: 62867 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50jrcm$nka@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <50m9mi$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:22:39 GMT
Lines: 31
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Your URL? Your post? Your anything to say that some
# places at A-B had no problems with vermin?
There are rooms in the complex that do not have cyanide traces.
This is elaborated upon in the report of the Polish chemists,
often posted here. I don't recall the URL right now. If you'll
mail Jamie McCarthy, I'm sure he'll be happy to help you.
Moreover, if the two underground cellars were indeed "morgues",
and both would have been "deloused" with Zyklon (as you claim),
then both would have had gas-tight doors. But only one of
them did. Why? Because it was the gas chamber.
# BTW: You are still lying about your degree.
Why do you say that? Why do you have to behave like a
silly child?
Matty, you want to contact Brown University, and tell
them that I "lied about my degree", and that they should
demand that I pay them back the salary they gave me as
a Ph.D research associate, for three years?
Can you PLEASE try to behave like an adult?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62888 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50la5o$atm@Vir.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:08:24 GMT
Lines: 26
Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
# ZUNDEL SITE: http://www.webcom.com/~ezundel/english/
Site composed and maintained by Ernst Zundel, who openly
admires Hitler, and also claims that the Nazi leadership
built "secret UFO's" and used them to flee to the inner
earth, via a "hole in the South-Pole". Zundel also called
to ban the movie "Schindler's List", and the TV series
"Holocaust" - which does not stop him from claiming that
he "supports free speech".
# G.RAVEN: http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/
Raven is another Hitler admirer, who described Hitler as
a "great man", and "the best thing that could have
happened to Germany".
# CODOH http://www.codoh.com
Which repeats what the above sites have, in addition to
some empty rhetoric.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:30 PDT 1996
Article: 62889 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer's Senility (Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50lpd3$pvc@juliana.sprynet.com> <322f4374.6312405@news.zilker.net> <50osgb$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:39:46 GMT
Lines: 34
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Only tales from the likes of Bomba the Barber with
# around 100 people in a 12x12 foot gas chamber,
#
# You would have thought Treblinka could have afforded a
# larger gas chamber. But then from his description of it,
# we know 800,000 is impossible.
Once again, poor old, senile, unemployed bum Matt Giwer
proves his ignorance:
Willi Mentz testifies about his days in Treblinka
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V.
Riess, The Free Press, NY, 1988., p. 245-247]
--------------------------------------------------------
...Finally, new and larger gas chambers were built
Testimony of SS Oberscharfuehrer Heinrich Matthes about Treblinka
[Quoted in "BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA - the Operation Reinhard
Death Camps", Indiana University Press - Yitzhak Arad, 1987, p. 121]
------------------------------------------------------------------
All together, six gas chambers were active. According to my
estimate, about 300 people could enter each gas chamber.
Bomba's testimony is about the three small gas chambers; later,
the larger ones mentioned here were built.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:31 PDT 1996
Article: 62891 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: another question
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50fv7c$e3q@dfw-ixnews7.ix.netcom.com> <50mdb4$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <5SEP199606222332@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <50ovbg$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:11:10 GMT
Lines: 44
Matt Giwer still hasn't commented on the outright lie he posted.
To remind:
From mgiwer@ix.netcom.com Sun Sep 1 10:45:38 EDT 1996
Article: 116072 of alt.revisionism
Xref: world alt.revisionism:116072
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Subject: Keeping the Belsen myths going
Date: Sat, 31 Aug 1996 09:45:46 GMT
In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
This is a lie; a common type of lie from Nazis who deny the
Holocaust - they lie and misquote witnesses, in order to make
them appear unreliable; since there was no such mass gassing
in Belsen, Giwer is trying to make it appear as if a witness
said there was such gassing, in order to "prove" that this
witness was lying.
Giwer can try and tell us who this witness was. In fact, a Jewish
doctor by the name of Bendel did testify about the murder by
gas of the Lodz Jews, but he said it took place in Birkenau,
not Belsen, and he didn't say they were all gassed in one
night.
Matt Giwer is a pathological liar; the above is just one example.
Never believe anything he says, before you check a reliable
source. He is, plain and simple, a lying piece of scum, pardon
my French.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62897 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mike Curtis-This Bud's for you, part 2
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322B1A72.167E@itsa.ucsf.edu> <50m28c$1sf@juliana.sprynet.com> <322f44cb.6655434@news.zilker.net> <50ort0$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:27:36 GMT
Lines: 33
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Because there has never been any physical evidence
# presented that there was any mass gassing at Auschwitz.
By that logic, there has never been any physical evidence
presented that WW2 took place.
If you have such evidence, present it.
I will easily demonstrate that, using your type of
"arguments", WW2 never took place.
# The majority of the material is contained on the five
# major revisionist sites,
Run and built by people who claim that Hitler was a "great
man and the best thing that could have happened to
Germany", and by someone who claims that the Nazi
leadership fled to the South Pole using "UFO's", and
that they are hiding in the inner Earth.
Sigh. What a bunch of miserable drecks you people are.
# as opposed to the one shittly little disorganized Nizkor.
Yeh, yeh.
Find a job, bum. Find a job, loser.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:32 PDT 1996
Article: 62902 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508ffe$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50jmed$l6u@surz03fi.HRZ.Uni-Marburg.DE> <50o2qe$ok5@Vir.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:35:58 GMT
Lines: 17
Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
# Poor Bauer, he chose to deny the gas chambers in his camp
It's Baer, not Bauer.
I've seen this claim from you nazi-boys numerous times - that
Baer "denied the gassings". I've seen no evidence, no source,
nothing whatsoever to prove this.
Until you supply the evidence for this claim, you will be
considered a liar. But then again, maybe you have no
problem with it. You're a "revisionist scholar", are you not...
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 07:23:33 PDT 1996
Article: 62909 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holohugging belief structure
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50on0u$61d@dfw-ixnews2.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:02:28 GMT
Lines: 47
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Thus when true believers in the holocaust are faced
# with lurid, absurd, and physically impossible claims
Once again, Giwer posts absolute rubbish. Apparently he
cannot do any better, in spite of his famous 163 IQ points.
"Physically impossible"?
Only if you believe in "Giwerian science".
Such as his claim that HCN will not evaporate from Zyklon if
the temperature is below 20 C. A claim as stupid as the claim
that there can be no humidity in the air if the temperature
is less than 100 C.
Or his claim that diesel engines cannot be tuned to release
high concentrations of CO. But experiments prove that it's
trivial matter to tune them to release up to 6 percent CO,
while 0.4 percent is lethal.
Or his incredible claim that the amount of Zyklon necessary
to kill people in the gas chamber within 10-15 minutes is
"too much to carry on a ladder", while a trivial calculation
proves it to be less than 1 Kg per SS-man.
Etc, etc, etc.
Look at Giwer's argument below. How stupid does someone have
to be in order to think(?) of something like this?
Giwer is a pathetic, lying, ignorant, frustrated and hateful
idiot. But this is the sort of people who find "Holocaust
revisionism" attractive.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 10:46:29 PDT 1996
Article: 140778 of control
Control: cancel
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 10:52:36 GMT
Lines: 1
was cancelled from within trn.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 6 10:59:35 PDT 1996
Article: 62959 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:56:56 GMT
Lines: 36
Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.
Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".
The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one,
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.
# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.
Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally
unrelated.
But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 7 09:23:14 PDT 1996
Article: 63055 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!hunter.premier.net!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Nazi Mass Murder In the Ukraine
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:11:02 GMT
Lines: 55
Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - - Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
Off., 1946, Vol V, pages 994-997]
----------------------------------------------------------------
The attitude of the Jewish population was anxious - obliging from
the beginning. They tried to avoid everything that might displease
the German administration. That they hated the German administration
and the army inwardly goes without saying and cannot be surprising.
However, there is no proof that Jewry as a whole or even to a
greater part was implicated in acts of sabotage. Surely, there
were some terrorists or saboteurs among them just as among the
Ukrainians. But it cannot be said that the Jews as such represented
a danger to the German armed forces. The output produced by the
Jews who, of course, were prompted by nothing but the feeling of
fear, was satisfactory to the troops and the German administration.
.
.
.
The way these actions which included men and old men, women and
children of all ages were carried out was horrible. The great masses
executed make this action more gigantic than any similar measure
taken so far in the Soviet Union. So far about 150,000 to
200,000 Jews may have been executed in the part of the Ukraine
belonging to the Reichskommissariat [RK]; no consideration was given
to the interests of economy.
Summarizing it can be said that the kind of solution of the Jewish
problem applied in the Ukraine which obviously was based on the
ideological theories as a matter of principle had the following
results:
a. Elimination of a part of partly superfluous eaters in the cities.
b. Elimination of a part of the population which hated us
undoubtedly.
c. Elimination of badly needed tradesmen who were in many instances
indispensable even in the interests of the armed forces.
d. Consequences as to foreign policy - propaganda which are obvious.
e. Bad effects on the troops which in any case get indirect contact
with the executions.
f. Brutalizing effect on the formations which carry out the
executions-regular police-(Ordnungspolizei).
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 7 09:23:15 PDT 1996
Article: 63160 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50h2e2$t3a@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 11:07:31 GMT
Lines: 16
schwartz@infinet.com writes:
# rblackmore@juno.com wrote:
## By the way, did you know that the eminent historian Bradley
## F. Smith happens to agree that the case against Streicher
## was ridiculous?
# EMINENT HISTORIAN Bradley Smith??!?!?!?!?
There is, actually, a serious historian named Bradley Smith; I
guess this is the Bradely F. Smith. The senile "revisionist"
clown is, I think, Bradley S. Smith.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 7 09:23:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63171 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: reviewing the bidding
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50pa04$qvp@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sat, 7 Sep 1996 10:58:32 GMT
Lines: 34
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# Bottom line, in case you have missed it, there is
# ZERO, NADA, ZILCHphysicla evidence for any holocaust.
A huge number of corpses were discovered after the war,
in the camps. The photographs are there on the Nizkor
site, and in numerous other sources.
Some of the gas chambers are still there, with cyanide
traces on their walls.
A huge amount of human remains were discovered in some
camps, as Treblinka and Maidanek.
The documents are there. Scans of some are posted on
Nizkor's site, and in numerous other sources.
The photographs are there. Scans of some are posted on
Nizkor's site, and in numerous other sources.
But for a person like Giwer, it is still not clear. But
then, Giwer's a rather odd person. See below.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 08:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63421 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Master of Liars? GIWER?
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <7aH3oOev1iBC065yn@login.dknet.dk> <50m7ju$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <6SEP199623180308@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <50tk5n$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:39:54 GMT
Lines: 39
Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
Which Does Not Exist
--------------------
Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.
Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".
The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one,
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.
# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.
Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally
unrelated.
But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 08:01:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63423 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The importance of being "anti-semitic"
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50qie8$6ds@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <50ra6o$fv9@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:52:23 GMT
Lines: 24
To repeat: another reason that the analogy offered by
the genocidal Nazi "kurt stele" is false - the attack on
the "Liberty" was a tragic error. The ship was thought
to be Egyptian, and the attack took place during the
3rd day of the Arab-Israeli 1967 war.
Errors like that happen during wars; just look at all
the cases of "friendly fire" during the Gulf War.
-Danny Keren.
----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:
From: kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
Message-Id: <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 08:01:17 PDT 1996
Article: 63428 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe Has Technical Problems
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 14:07:08 GMT
Lines: 17
Letter from SS-Hauptsturmfuehrer Truehe to Reich security office
[Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
Off., 1946, Vol. I, p. 1001]
------------------------------------------------------------------
A transport of Jews, which has to be treated in a special way, arrives
weekly at the office of the commandant of the Security Police and the
Security Service of white Ruthenia. The three S-vans which are there
are not sufficient for that purpose. I request assignment of another
S-van (five tons). At the same time I request the shipment of twenty
gas hoses for the three S-vans on hand since the ones on hand are leaky
already.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 08:01:18 PDT 1996
Article: 63494 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.wildstar.net!imci5!pull-feed.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Apologies to Yale Edeiken: who needs none
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50la5o$atm@Vir.com> <50t39l$m7s@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 14:15:41 GMT
Lines: 16
Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
# By the way, will you finally say to us if the small
# handwritten notification on this report which claim
# that 363,211 jews were liquidated in the east is
# supposed to be Himmler's initials?
Do you mean near the top of the page, right, under
the "1942"? I don't know what this means. You may
check the full translation in the "Green Series"
or ask the "Institute for Contemporary History" in
Munich.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 11:00:24 PDT 1996
Article: 63498 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'About 60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated'
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 14:34:14 GMT
Lines: 16
The Goebbels [Reich propaganda Minister] diaries, March 27, 1942:
[The Goebbels Diaries 1942-1943 - L.P. Lochner, Doubleday & Co., 1948,
p. 147-148]
-----------------------------------------------------------
Beginning with Lublin, the Jews in the General Government
[Nazi occupied Poland] are now being evacuated eastward. The procedure
is a pretty barbaric one and not to be described here more definitely.
Not much will remain of the Jews. On the whole it can be said that about
60 per cent of them will have to be liquidated whereas only 40 per cent
can be used for forced labor.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 11:00:25 PDT 1996
Article: 63504 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!clicnet!news.clic.net!news.bconnex.net!news1.erols.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The importance of being "anti-semitic"
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50l0a6$75f@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <50ndib$165@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:25:35 GMT
Lines: 33
kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele) writes:
# or the deliberate jewish massacre of over a hundred U.S.
# servicemen on the U.S.S. Liberty,
34, not "over a hundred". It is simply amazing that these
nazi-boys will *always* lie.
And it was a tragic error that happened during war time,
just like the cases of deaths resulting from "friendly fire"
in the Gulf War, and numerous other cases during wars.
# he is accused of having "an anti-semitic agenda"
You are obviously a piece of Nazi trash, as your quote
below proves.
-Danny Keren.
----
For a summary of the "revisionist" position, look at what
Nazi propagandist and "revisionist", Kurt Stele, wrote:
From: kurtstele@aol.com (Kurt Stele)
Message-Id: <4ut4ht$p8i@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
# The Holocaust is a funny thing..
# When you hear about it, you wish it never happened..
# When you discover it's a hoax ya kind of wish it did!
# Kurt Stele
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 11:00:26 PDT 1996
Article: 63516 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Nazi Mass Murder In the Ukraine
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32319496.9645873@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:26:10 GMT
Lines: 25
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to
## General of Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941
# When convenient, claim the Jews did nothing to warrant or
# justify any of the alleged crimes committed against them
# by the Germans.
Tommy, you poor old nazi-boyish senile twerp. It is not ME
making that statement about the Jews not posing a danger
to the Germans. It is the NAZI OFFICIAL who wrote the letter.
## e. Bad effects on the troops which in any case get
## indirect contact with the executions.
# But what about "Hitler's Willing Executioners".
Don't know, Tommy. I didn't write the book. Write Prof.
Goldhagen and ask. I don't speak for him.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 11:00:26 PDT 1996
Article: 63517 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32317280.919279@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 05:17:13 GMT
Lines: 24
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# Even though modern day cremation facilities take two
# and half hours to cremate one body,
Senility, Tommy, is a sad thing to watch. You must have
forgotten that the sources posted here - taken directly
off the cremation web site - state that, when the furnace
is already hot, cremation takes less than one hour.
And, as has been pointed here numerous times, the Topf patent
of 1953 estimates 30-45 minutes for cremation. Topf is the
same firm that built the Auschwitz-Bireknau furnaces.
As for putting more corpse than one in a single muffle - there's
no difficulty about that; this will not be done during normal
cremation procedure, out of respect for the dead, but there's
no problem in doing it during "industrial cremation" as in
the camps; moreover since there were many children and infants
among the victims.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 11:00:27 PDT 1996
Article: 63528 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.orst.edu!v_mail.supra.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508ffe$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50o2qe$ok5@Vir.com> <50t2vc$m7s@Vir.com>
Date: Sun, 8 Sep 1996 14:29:16 GMT
Lines: 36
Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
# Hi Pit
Hello shmegege,
# 'what leaves one to believe that he refused to back
# the extermination charge,
Not good enough.
Nor the irrelevant stuff from Butz.
# If you want to start this game I will call you a liar
# each time that you'll quote an exterminationist author
# and say that his statement his an a priori lie. How
# would you like it?
Whoa, I say, WHOA. Is this supposed to scare me?
I mean, do you really think I care what a bunch of low-life
Nazi scumbags thinks about me, or how they call me? This
guy is unbelievable.
I am still waiting for the direct and full quote from Baer
in which he allegedly denies the gassings. You have made
the claim that he did that; you failed to back your claim
with facts.
I wouldn't bother too much with this, but you naziboys
keep bringing this up here and there and I want to settle
it once and for all.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 8 11:56:11 PDT 1996
Article: 63569 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!tor.istar!east.istar!news.nstn.ca!newsflash.concordia.ca!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Belsen to Keren, over.
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50oisg$t8c@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:42:07 GMT
Lines: 32
rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# Good, The pretense is over. Show us your real face.
Huh?
# Now, as to the comments of the woman you quote: "What
# subordinate wouldn't attempt to blame superiors?"
This is simply not good enough.
# Most people would have said and done anything to regain their
# freedom, as would have the inmates of Belsen...
Ditto.
# The water you mentioned was contaminated,
Garbage. The Brits pumped them to the camp and they were fine.
The SS simply didn't bother. They didn't care that tens-of-
thousands were dying; after all, the inmates were "sub-humans"
to them.
# it's people like me who give you something to do with your
# life....
Just like a disease gives a doctor something to do with
his life.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 08:20:13 PDT 1996
Article: 63691 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!torn!news.unb.ca!news.uoregon.edu!enews.sgi.com!news.sgi.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Malzemueller Testifies About Chelmno Death Camp
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50ocnr$pao@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:59:23 GMT
Lines: 27
rblackmore@juno.com writes:
# Just curious: What happened to Bothmann, Plate, Lenz,
# and Haeberle? Did they survive the war, and corroborate
# the staements quoted here?
I don't know; I recall that Bothmann was tried and executed,
but I may be confusing him with Lange. I'd check Reitlinger;
his book contains an appendix of some key Nazi figures and
a short summary of what became of them. I think that Bothmann
was high enough in the hierarchy to be mentioned there.
Some other staff members from Chelmno, who testified,
are Malzemueller, Burmeister, Laabs, and Schalling (who is,
BTW, interviewed in "Shoa"). You can also look in "Nazi Mass
Murder", Yale Uni. Press, which discusses Chelmno in some
detail; it also mentions the revolt of the Jewish
"sonderkommando" in which one SS-man was killed.
You could contact the appropriate German authorities and
ask, of course. Or you can do the Giwer and demand a URL,
because, as we know, in Giwer's world, if there's no URL
it means it never happened.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 08:20:16 PDT 1996
Article: 63712 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.infi.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.new-york.net!news.iag.net!news.math.psu.edu!news3.cac.psu.edu!news.cse.psu.edu!news.cc.swarthmore.edu!netnews.upenn.edu!dsinc!newsfeed.pitt.edu!news.duq.edu!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!blanket.mitre.org!news.tufts.edu!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Ausrotten again
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4vpt6e$taj@Vir.com> <50m9mi$7t8@dfw-ixnews8.ix.netcom.com> <50nrli$n5u@dfw-ixnews5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 1996 06:35:01 GMT
Lines: 22
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# As has been discussed in depth here, the polish
# report is worthless as it has only one data point.
No, it has more data points.
http://www.nizkor.org/hweb/orgs/polish/
institute-for-forensic-research/
# How do you know they did not? How do you know any
# of them had such doors?
The inventory list. It's posted to Nizkor's site.
Do you, finally, agree that Kremas II & III each had
two large underground cellars, referred to in the
documents as "keller I & II"?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 08:20:17 PDT 1996
Article: 63716 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!noc.van.hookup.net!laslo.netnet.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-5.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!news-dc-9.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Always believe Russina Sources
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322CA5E8.5674@unb.ca> <50qejk$5k5@juliana.sprynet.com> <50vnsn$h4d@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:58:31 GMT
Lines: 15
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
[About the two shrunken heads of Buchenwald inmates (see also
on Nizkor's site, .../camps/buchenwald/images)]
# The shrunken heads of the "prisoners" were returned to the
# museum's South American exhibit from where they were borrowed.
Will you do us a favor and post the source for this amazing
claim, Matty?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 08:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 63720 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.nationalism.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: DAVID IRVING, HISTORIAN, TO SPEAK IN NEWPORT BEACH, CA 7-SEPT
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3228dc01.245303398@nntp.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:48:46 GMT
Lines: 63
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:28900 alt.revisionism:63720
Summary: A "leading revisionist scholar" in action;
Irving's extreme dishonesty and deceitfulness
---------------------------------------------------
Together with Robert Faurisson, David Irving is considered by
Holocaust-deniers as a "leading revisionist" worldwide. It is not
absolutely clear how Irving is viewed by the deniers and other
neo-Nazis now, after he recently stated that the Nazis did kill
4 million Jews (a figure lower than the true one, however far
higher than the one usually given by Holocaust-deniers).
Nontheless, it may be worthwhile to take a look at a typical
"Irving argument". Faurisson's "technique" of using outright lies
and deceit was covered in a different article.
In an article quoted a few times by "Jeff Roberts" on this
group, Irving is answering Pearson, during his appearance as
a witness in the Zundel trial; Roberts' text (and Irving's)
is preceded by "#".
# Pearson [prosecutor at the Zundel trial] mentioned a report number
# 51 dated December 1, 1942, which mentioned 363,211 Soviet Jews
# executed over the past three months.
#
# I can only repeat what I said previously, said [David] Irving,
# that this was such an extraordinary document, that the figure
# was so unusual [...].
#
# "This document is very much an orphan," said Irving.
This is an outright lie; Irving cannot directly challenge the
document, so he tries to cast doubts by claiming it is an
"orphan document", not supported by other documents.
Being the "leading revisionist scholar" he is, Irving must have
"forgotten" some other documents. His "orphan document" has,
in fact, many relatives; here are some.
1) Letter from Generalkommisar for white Russia, Kube, to Reichkommisar
for the Ostland, Lohse, 31 July 1942. Reports that 55,000 Jews
were murdered in the last ten weeks.
2) Letter from Inspector of Armaments in the Ukraine to General of
Infantry, Thomas, December 2 1941. Reports that so far up to
200,000 Jews were murdered in the Nazi-occupied Ukraine.
3) Letter from SS Major-General Stahlecker to SS General Heydrich,
January 31, 1942. Reports that, so far, 229,000 Jews were
murdered in the "Eastern Territories".
4) Detailed report by SS-Standartenfuehrer Jager about mass killings
in Nazi occupied USSR, July-November 1941. Reports that, so far,
more than 130,000 Jews were murdered in Nazi-occupied Lithuania
Perhaps Irving never heard about these documents?
Perhaps he did, and he's lying through his teeth?
Either way, he's a "revisionist scholar".
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 08:20:18 PDT 1996
Article: 63758 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!news-w.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!chi-news.cic.net!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: SHOW YOUR SUPPORT - sign on here
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322c56d3.6968993@news.pacificnet.net> <322ef64b.7254109@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 1996 17:56:42 GMT
Lines: 10
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) wrote:
# Three more names requesting to be put on the list of
# those endorsing McVay's statement about Moran's sister.
What is all this about, Tommy?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 13:18:36 PDT 1996
Article: 63845 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.campus.mci.net!uky.edu!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another 'Revisionist' Lie (Richard Baer)
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:18:50 GMT
Lines: 45
Seems we can document another big lie from our "revisionist
scholars". A few days ago, Jean-Francois Beaulieu claimed that
Richard Baer, the last commandant of Auschwitz I, denied
the murder by gas "in his camp":
Jean-Francois Beaulieu
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Date: Thu Sep 05 22:38:06 EDT 1996
# No torture? Let just say that it didn't transpire if it
# happened. Poor Bauer [Baer], he chose to deny the gas chambers
# in his camp and died in his early fifties...coincidence?
This is not the first time I heard this claim; I kept asking
our "revisionists" for a source, but never got one. Beaulieu
did post a hodge-podge of meaningless speculations, which
amounted to "I think that what Baer's wife said in some private
conversation may have meant that he suspected the gassings
never took place". Usually, the flat claim is made that Baer
denied any murder by gas. This is a "revisionist" lie.
In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority".
Remember, Baer arrived at Camp I only at 1944; by that time,
there was indeed no gassing in Krema I in that camp - that
took place only in 1941-2, till the much bigger gas chambers
in Birkenau were built.
Since Baer was ill, and died during his trial, the "revisionists"
are trying to suggest he was "murdered" because he "denied the
gassing myth". He obviously did not.
So, we have another outright lie from our "revisionist scholars".
Interestingly enough, Beaulieu indicated that he based his
claim on Butz's book. What does that make Butz?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 9 13:23:08 PDT 1996
Article: 63845 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!netaxs.com!news.dra.com!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.campus.mci.net!uky.edu!cpk-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-feed2.bbnplanet.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Another 'Revisionist' Lie (Richard Baer)
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 10:18:50 GMT
Lines: 45
Seems we can document another big lie from our "revisionist
scholars". A few days ago, Jean-Francois Beaulieu claimed that
Richard Baer, the last commandant of Auschwitz I, denied
the murder by gas "in his camp":
Jean-Francois Beaulieu
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Date: Thu Sep 05 22:38:06 EDT 1996
# No torture? Let just say that it didn't transpire if it
# happened. Poor Bauer [Baer], he chose to deny the gas chambers
# in his camp and died in his early fifties...coincidence?
This is not the first time I heard this claim; I kept asking
our "revisionists" for a source, but never got one. Beaulieu
did post a hodge-podge of meaningless speculations, which
amounted to "I think that what Baer's wife said in some private
conversation may have meant that he suspected the gassings
never took place". Usually, the flat claim is made that Baer
denied any murder by gas. This is a "revisionist" lie.
In "Nazi Mass Murder", Yale Uni. Press, 1993, on page 142, a
statement of Baer from Dec. 22, 1960, is quoted, with the
full source: "I commanded only Camp I at Auschwitz. I had nothing
to do with the camps where the gassings took place. I had no
influence over them. It was in Camp II, at Birkenau, that the
gassings took place. That camp was not under my authority".
Remember, Baer arrived at Camp I only at 1944; by that time,
there was indeed no gassing in Krema I in that camp - that
took place only in 1941-2, till the much bigger gas chambers
in Birkenau were built.
Since Baer was ill, and died during his trial, the "revisionists"
are trying to suggest he was "murdered" because he "denied the
gassing myth". He obviously did not.
So, we have another outright lie from our "revisionist scholars".
Interestingly enough, Beaulieu indicated that he based his
claim on Butz's book. What does that make Butz?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:50 PDT 1996
Article: 64011 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!news.internetMCI.com!imci3!newsfeed.internetmci.com!howland.erols.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.mindspring.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32317280.919279@news.pacificnet.net> <3232e6ab.1191103@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 06:45:58 GMT
Lines: 31
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# "Less than an hour"? That is for one body right? Is it 59
# minutes, 40 minutes, 20 minutes 20 minutes, 5 minutes or 5
# seconds.
Don't try to be smart, Tommy. You gave 2.5 hours. "Less than an
hour" makes you off by a factor of at least 2.5.
## And, as has been pointed here numerous times, the Topf patent
## of 1953 estimates 30-45 minutes for cremation. Topf is the
## same firm that built the Auschwitz-Bireknau furnaces.
# You say "as it has been pointed out" about the Topf patent, are
# you saying it was presented here, in English, or do you mean
# someone mentioned it?
It's on the web, the whole patent. I am sick and tired of you
lazy buggers not willing to do anything on your own. You can
learn enough German to understand the part about the cremation
time.
# The name and URL of this "cremation website" Mr. Keren. Lets
# have it.
http://www.cremation.org. Take a look there before you post any
more of your rubbish, you senile twerp.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:51 PDT 1996
Article: 64013 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: No criminal evidende in the Wannsee protocol
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <508ffe$dia@dfw-ixnews4.ix.netcom.com> <50t2vc$m7s@Vir.com> <50up9m$7de@Vir.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:06:42 GMT
Lines: 16
Jean-Francois Beaulieu writes:
[Nothing relevant]
In the meanwhile, check my article in which Baer is quoted
as saying that the mass gassing took place in Birkenau. He
obviously didn't deny the gassings, as you lying Nazi
scumbags have - again and again - claimed he did.
NEVER trust a "revisionist". They have been proven to lie
so many times so as to render everything they claim useless.
Always check a reliable source.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:52 PDT 1996
Article: 64014 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news-dc.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Always believe Russina Sources
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <322CA5E8.5674@unb.ca> <50vnsn$h4d@sjx-ixn4.ix.netcom.com> <511du9$pd0@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:22:48 GMT
Lines: 29
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
## About the two shrunken heads of Buchenwald inmates (see
## also on Nizkor's site, .../camps/buchenwald/images)]
### The shrunken heads of the "prisoners" were returned to the
### museum's South American exhibit from where they were borrowed.
## Will you do us a favor and post the source for this amazing
## claim, Matty?
# It has been posted.
Not good enough, Matty. Answer the question, you lying,
stupid, unemployed piece of dreck.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:53 PDT 1996
Article: 64015 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: for those who have any turther questions
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50m5pe$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <6SEP199622534830@bpavms.bpa.arizona.edu> <510ppm$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:39:32 GMT
Lines: 39
Giwer the Liar Posts a Testimony
Which Does Not Exist
--------------------
Note that Giwer has nothing with which to respond to the
fake testimony he posted here just a few days ago.
Giwer posted a non-existing testimony. Period. He did it in
order to "prove" that testimonies of survivors are a "lie".
The tactic is simple; "revisionists" use it all the time. They
invent a non-existing testimony, or distort an existing one,
and then post it as if it was an actual testimony. Al Baron
did it. Tom Moran did it. And now Giwer does it.
# In Lueneburg, Germany, a Jewish physician, testifying at the
# trial of 45 men and women for war crimes at the Belsen and
# Oswiecim [Auschwitz] concentration camps, said that 80,000
# Jews, representing the entire ghetto of Lodz, Poland, had been
# gassed or burned to death in one night at the Belsen camp.
Since there was no such mass gassing in Belsen, Giwer is
trying to make it appear as if a witness said there was such
gassing, in order to "prove" that this witness was lying.
Giwer has yet to provide the name of this witness. But
he can't. Note that his only response to this reasonable
request is to spam the group by reposting something totally
unrelated.
But this is what you can expect from a senile, pathetic,
miserable liar like Giwer.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:54 PDT 1996
Article: 64062 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!news.ums.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Shoah Visual History Foundation
Message-ID:
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50tje2$8q1@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> <51154b$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:18:50 GMT
Lines: 30
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.conspiracy:86879 alt.revisionism:64062
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# You must be thinking of Danny "the fraud" Keren.
Kindly elaborate. What, exactly, do you mean by "fraud"?
Are you suggesting I don't have a Ph.D? Then, why don't
you contact Brown University, and inform them? They have
employed me as a research associate, with a Ph.D, for
three years, and paid me accordingly. It is your duty
as an American, as a "revisionist", and as an unemployed,
retired at 46 punk, to inform them of your suspicions.
# I have never claimed a PhD.
Why don't you get one? You do claim an IQ of 163. And
you have plenty of free time, not having a job.
Go for it, Matty. We know you can do it.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:55 PDT 1996
Article: 64071 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: AN INVITATION TO TOM MORAN (was Re: ALL BY THEIR LONESOME)
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <3226edad.390461@news.pacificnet.net> <50m51o$oba@sjx-ixn2.ix.netcom.com> <50ub0d$cb0@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il> <5113lu$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:53:29 GMT
Lines: 24
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# schultr@ashur.cc.biu.ac.il (Richard Schultz) wrote:
## Do you mean to claim there is actual physical evidence
## for this Dresden firestorm of yours?
# I have posted it. Look it up.
None. Zero. Zilch.
You've posted nothing. By the standards of your demands
for "physical evidence" to the Holocaust, there is also no
evidence whatsoever that Dresden was bombed.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:56 PDT 1996
Article: 64075 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Giwer Posts Fake Testimony
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <510rta$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:47:14 GMT
Lines: 24
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) whines:
# Actually I was posting a miserable lie accepted
# by the IMT.
No, you poor old slob. You posted testimony which
does not exist. No one gave that testimony. You
intentionally lied and posted a non-existing
testimony, which contains errors, in order to make
it appear as if survivors lied in their testimonies.
You're really a sick, revolting liar.
Again: if you claim the testimony exists, post the
name of the person who gave it. That's a fair request,
Matty, isn't it?
[Childish "satire" deleted]
You're still an unemployed loser, Matty.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 07:18:57 PDT 1996
Article: 64092 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.fan.ernst-zundel,alt.revisionism,alt.politics.nationalism-white
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!nntp.teleport.com!news.serv.net!news.alt.net!news1.alt.net!news.u.washington.edu!netnews.nwnet.net!news.nodak.edu!news.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!news.sdsmt.edu!news.mid.net!newsfeeder.gi.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 960901: Germany attacks the Zundelsite again!
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50lcrr$1nho@news-s01.ny.us.ibm.net> <50t55s$1u9@star.epix.net> <3234778F.B02@maritz.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:37:41 GMT
Lines: 21
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.fan.ernst-zundel:2839 alt.revisionism:64092
brownk.yc@maritz.com writes:
# Are we still at war with Jewish deception, lies
# ect. (YES we are)
#
# Are we winning this war? YES we ARE!
You know, Hitler also claimed that he's winning the war,
nearly up to the point when he shot himself in the head.
# THIS DESTINY DOES NOT TIRE, NOR WILL IT BE BROKEN!
Oy vey.
# Deutschland uber Alles in der Welt!
Du bist dummkopf schwantz.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:44:19 PDT 1996
Article: 64160 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!globe.indirect.com!news.sprintlink.net!news-fw-22.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!new-news.sprintlink.net!howland.erols.net!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Jewrassic Pork
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5115mi$h3h@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 05:59:56 GMT
Lines: 33
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
# As reported by CNN Headline News on 9.9.96 under earnings
# of entertainers,
#
# Stephen Spielberg was number two for 1995 at $150 million
# dollars in earnings.
That's life, Matty.
Some, like Spielberg, have jobs.
Some, like you, retired at the age of 46. In spite of the
famous 163 IQ points, etc.
You're a zero, a failure, a nothing, an unemployed, stupid,
sick, vulgar bum.
But look at the bright side: you're a "leading revisionist
scholar"! It's good to know that, in this great country, even
stupid, senile, unemployed pathological liars like yourself
can still make a name for themselves.
-Danny Keren.
---
In Message-ID: <4n0ik8$1a8@dfw-ixnews10.ix.netcom.com>, Matt Giwer
suggested that documents about a "gas chamber" and "gassing cellar"
in the Birkenau crematoriums didn't count, as they were really due
to "a morbid sense of humor" of the SS men who authored the documents.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:34 PDT 1996
Article: 64164 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Hoessler Testifies About Auschwitz
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:51:58 GMT
Lines: 26
Testimony of SS-Obersturmfuehrer Franz Hoessler
[Quoted in "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips, William Hodge
and Company, 1949, p. 714-715]
----------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone in the camp knew about the gas chamber at Auschwitz, but at
no time did I take part in the selection of prisoners who were to go to
the gas chambers and then be cremated. Whilst I was there selection of
prisoners for the gas chambers was done by Dr. Klein, Dr. Mengele and
other young doctors whose names I do not know. I have attended these
parades, but my job was merely to keep order. Often women were paraded
naked in front of the doctors and persons selected by the doctors were
sent to the gas chamber.
.
.
.
I made many complaints to Hoess about the way people were being sent to
the gas chamber, but I was told it was not my business.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:41 PDT 1996
Article: 64165 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Kube Reports His 'Work': 10 Weeks, 55,000 Murders
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:49:34 GMT
Lines: 26
Report from Kube, General Commissioner of White Ruthenia,
to Gauleiter Lohse, Reich Commissioner for the Ostland,
31 July 1942
[Quoted from "Trials of War Criminals Before the Nuernberg
Military Tribunals", Vol. IV, pages 191-193]
---------------------------------------------------------
During detailed consultations with the SS Brigadefuehrer Zenner
and the extremely capable Chief of the SD,
SS Obersturmbannfuehrer Dr. jur. Strauch, we found that we had
liquidated approximately 55,000 Jews in White Ruthenia during
the past 10 weeks. In the Minsk-Land area, the Jewry was completely
exterminated without endangering the allocation of labor in any way.
In the prevailing Polish Lida area, 16,000 Jews, in Slonim 8,000
Jews, etc., were liquidated.
[...]
In the city of Minsk about 10,000 Jews were liquidated on 28 and
29 July, 6,500 of whom were Russian Jews - mainly old people, women,
and children - the remainder consisted of Jews unfit for work, most
of whom had been sent to Minsk from Vienna, Brno, Bremen, and Berlin
in November of the previous year at the Fuehrer's orders.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:44 PDT 1996
Article: 64166 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'There Was No Longer Any Escape'
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:50:38 GMT
Lines: 17
Testimony of Hans-Heintz Schutt, SS-officer at Sobibor
[Quoted in "'The Good Old Days'" - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 240]
-------------------------------------------------------------
Getting the detainees into the gas chambers did not always proceed
smoothly. The detainees would shout and weep and they often refused to
get inside. The guards helped them on by violence. These guards were
Ukrainian volunteers who were under the authority of members of
the SS Kommando. Members of the SS held key positions in the camp, i.e.
one SS man oversaw the unloading, a further SS man led the detainees
into the reception camp, a further SS man was responsible for leading
the detainees to the undressing area, a further SS man oversaw the
confiscation of valuables and a further member of the Kommando had
to drive the detainees into the so-called tube which led to the
extermination camp. Once they were inside the so-called tube, which
led them from the hut to the extermination camp, there was no longer
any escape.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 12:58:45 PDT 1996
Article: 64167 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!usenet.eel.ufl.edu!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Wetzel Writes Lohse About the 'Gassing Apparatuses'
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:46:59 GMT
Lines: 37
Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.
From dkeren@world.std.com Tue Sep 10 17:31:06 PDT 1996
Article: 64223 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!eloi.vir.com!rcogate.rco.qc.ca!n3ott.istar!ott.istar!istar.net!van.istar!west.istar!n1van.istar!van-bc!news.mindlink.net!news.atl.bellsouth.net!newsrelay.iastate.edu!news.drake.edu!news.physics.uiowa.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!usc!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'kurtzi' stele, the Untermench (Re: Jewish Al
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5124m5$rir@newsbf02.news.aol.com> <512gb8$315@newsbf02.news.aol.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:51:40 GMT
Lines: 25
kurtzi, mein kleine nazi-boy, since you're back, how about
answering some questions?
1) You claimed that using cyanide gas in the Auschwitz chambers
would "kill the German soldiers standing outside". I consider this
a truly idiotic statement, more so because there *are* cyanide
traces on their walls. Care to explain?
2) Even more stupid, kurtzi, was your claim that millions of
Holocaust victims should have left behind "millions of tons
of ashes". How is it, kurtzi, that someone like you - who
claims, again and again, to belong to a superior race - makes
an error of more than two orders of magnitude in such
simple calculations?
Will it make me "anti-White" to assert that you're a stupid
untermench? Please respond promptly, as ZOG promised me a
raise if I'm also "anti-White", in addition to being a
holohugger.
Sincerely,
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:37 PDT 1996
Article: 64337 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!news.umbc.edu!cs.umd.edu!zombie.ncsc.mil!newsgate.duke.edu!agate!spool.mu.edu!newspump.sol.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 12 million into camps, Mr. "Stone?"
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <4v9ejf$18j@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <510nkp$9iv@lex.zippo.com> <512ur7$krq@cnn.cc.biu.ac.il>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:37:11 GMT
Lines: 20
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.white-power:42811 alt.revisionism:64337
Ourobouros wrote:
# The Einsatzgruppen which Rich Graves cites from
# Nizkor (which I have only skimmed) mention something
# about 137,000 "victims"
No, dummkopf. You're talking about one single report,
the "Jager Report", about the murders by Einsatzkommando
3, during July-November 1941.
But then again, you're the guy who wrote that people
can protect themselves against cyanide gas by holding
their breath, right?
Where do you people come from? Is this some Mengele
experiment gone mad or what?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:38 PDT 1996
Article: 64343 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!vertex.tor.hookup.net!hookup!chi-news.cic.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!news-res.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!news-peer.gsl.net!news.gsl.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.sgi.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @17:00
Message-ID:
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5133k2$gi3@nntp1.best.com> <514ddn$3mk@nntp1.best.com> <514drg$3mk@nntp1.best.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:24:18 GMT
Lines: 47
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:8992 soc.culture.german:85674 alt.revisionism:64343 rec.arts.books:105037 alt.censorship:100255 soc.culture.british:115237 soc.culture.canada:98386
[Followup = alt.revisionism]
Unfortunately, Womack, I won't be able to attend. If you
go, please find out something for me. A British Nazi activist,
and an ardent admirer of Irving, posted the following excerpt,
taken from the trial of Canadian Nazi Ernst Zundel:
# Did you find "any orders for the extermination of Jews" in
# the archives of any country? asked Christie.
#
# "None whatsoever," said [David] Irving.
Please, Womack, do try to find out how this is consistent
with the fact that Irving mentions in his book a letter from
Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941,
in which the order to kill Jews "unfit for work" with poison
gas is given. To me, it seems like a contradiction.
Maybe Irving will care to explain this document, and many
others, which clearly prove an extermination plan?
Maybe he'd also like to explain his support for the
pseudo-scientific rubbish peddled by Fred Leuchter, a charlatan
who describes himself as an "engineer", although he only holds
a BA in the Arts? (Leuchter was taken to court in the US
for this). Leuchter also describes himself as a "gas
chamber expert", although he never built a gas chamber for
any US prison. A few years ago, Leuchter was sent by Zundel
to conduct a "scientific study" of the Auschwitz-Birkenau
gas chambers, and, when he came back, he wrote a "report"
about them, which was endorsed by Irving. The "report"
sought to prove that it would have been impossible to gas
large numbers of people in the gas chambers; it is so stupid
and worthless that "revisionists" have more-or-less stopped
using it (for instance, Leuchter claims that the cyanide
gas would "leak and kill the SS-men outside", while he
himself admits that cyanide gas was indeed used in the
chambers, as there are still cyanide compounds on their
walls). Why did Irving endorse and praise this worthless
piece of pseudo-scientific rubbish?
Care to respond to these questions, oh mighty internet hero?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:39 PDT 1996
Article: 64378 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!udel-eecis!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in2.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: TCA - ARSONISTS ATTACK REVISIONIST PUBLISHERS
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <512kk7$28i@news-e2b.gnn.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:12:50 GMT
Lines: 18
I wonder if this has anything to do with the war between
various "revisionist" fractions.
For instance, In a well-known (and hilariously funny)
incident not long ago, America's "leading revisionist
scholars" beat the crap out of each other, in the IHR
office in CA. I recall reading that Greg Raven, who
posts here often on behalf of the IHR, was arrested
by the police (maybe he'd like to respond, but he most
probably will not).
Anyone remember the "night of the long knives", in which
Hitler had dozens of Nazis murdered, during a battle
for the leadership of the Nazi movement...?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:40 PDT 1996
Article: 64381 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!op.net!www.nntp.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!uunet!in3.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Mass Murder At Belsen
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:41:44 GMT
Lines: 73
All excerpted from "The Belsen Trial":
Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner
in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:
(p. 60-61)
We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.
[...]
I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
vast numbers - certainly five figures.
You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
on the head.
(p. 62)
I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
hundreds were shot per day.
[1] Ethnic Germans ("Volkdeutche") from Hungary who were
recruited to the SS.
Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.
Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 07:13:40 PDT 1996
Article: 64384 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
Path: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca!news.island.net!news.bctel.net!noc.van.hookup.net!hookup!solaris.cc.vt.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!in1.uu.net!world!dkeren
From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: --->NOTICE: David Irving Speaks Tonight [9/10] in Oakland @ 17:00
Message-ID:
Followup-To: alt.revisionism
Keywords: David Irving, censorship, free speech, San Francisco, propaganda
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5133k2$gi3@nntp1.best.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:36:43 GMT
Lines: 26
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca soc.history:9003 soc.culture.german:85696 alt.revisionism:64384 rec.arts.books:105044 alt.censorship:100284 soc.culture.british:115257 soc.culture.canada:98396
[Followup = alt.revisionism]
womack@nntp.best.com (Hal Womack) writes:
Ah, nutty old Womack is at it again.
Don't forget to mention that this "historian" is the
subject of admiration of the neo-Nazi movement world-wide,
and that he had been convicted in a British court for libel
and slander; a fine of 40,000 Pounds was handed. Don't
tell me you never heard of this, as I wrote you about
it some time ago.
# Mr. Irving began his US tour Saturday with a talk before
# the Institute of Historical Review in Los Angeles.
Which is run by Greg Raven, a Hitler admirer who stated
that Hitler was a "great man, and the best thing that
could have happened to Germany".
Is this a coincidence? What do you think, Womack? Try to
be coherent, please.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:48 PDT 1996
Article: 148936 of control
Control: cancel
Newsgroups: ba.politics,ca.politics,soc.history,soc.culture.german,alt.revisionism,nyc.politics,rec.arts.books,alt.censorship,soc.culture.british,soc.culture.canada
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: cancel
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:22:19 GMT
Lines: 1
was cancelled from within trn.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:51 PDT 1996
Article: 148938 of control
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
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From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 08:37:52 PDT 1996
Article: 148970 of control
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From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 11:06:52 PDT 1996
Article: 64401 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Crematorium Rates
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <32317280.919279@news.pacificnet.net> <3232e6ab.1191103@news.pacificnet.net> <50va3g$5mf@Vir.com> <32357427.2031510@news.pacificnet.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 06:18:48 GMT
Lines: 22
tm@pacificnet.net (tom moran) writes:
# I don't think we have to spend too much time on responding
# to Mr.Keren, Mr.Beaulieu. He can squeal all he wants.
Of course. Poor old senile Tommy claims that modern
crematoriums take 2.5 hours to cremate a corpse. I post
in return a source which gives the time to be, for
certain crematoriums, "less than an hour". The source
also notes that, when the cremation furnace is hot,
this reduces cremation time by a factor of two.
And I cite the 1953 Topf patent, giving a cremation
time of 30-45 minutes.
So, my response proves that Tommy is either a liar, or
a dimwit who has no idea what he's talking about. But
this is well-known; why, indeed, should he respond?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 11:44:57 PDT 1996
Article: 64417 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Dr. August Becker Implements National Socialism
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:03:55 GMT
Lines: 42
Letter from Dr August Becker to SS-Obersturmbannfuehrer Rauff, 16
May 1942 [Nazi Conspiracy and Aggression - Washington, U.S Govt. Print.
Off., 1946, Vol III, p. 418]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I ordered the vans of group D to be camouflaged as house trailers by
putting one set of window shutters on each side of the small van and
two on each side of the large vans, such as one often sees on farm
houses in the country. The vans became so well known, that not only
the authorities but also the civilian population called the van "death
van", as soon as one of these vehicles appeared. It is my opinion the
van cannot be kept secret for any length of time, not even
camouflaged...
Besides that, I ordered that during application of gas all the men
were to be kept as far away from the vans as possible, so they should
not suffer damage to their health by the gas which eventually would
escape. I should like to take this opportunity to bring the following
to your attention: several commands have had the unloading after the
application of gas done by their own men. I brought to the attention
of those S.K [Special Kommando] concerned the immense psychological
injuries and damages involved to their health that this work can have
for those men, even if not immediately, at least later on. The men
complained to me about head-aches which appeared after each unloading.
Nevertheless they don't want to change the orders, because they are
afraid prisoners called for that work could use an opportune moment to
flee. To protect the men from these damages, I request orders to be
issued accordingly.
The application of the gas is not undertaken correctly. In order to
come to an end as fast as possible, the driver presses the accelerator
to the fullest extent. By doing that the persons to be executed suffer
death from suffocation and not death by dozing off as was planned. My
directions have now proved that by correct adjustment of the levers
death comes faster and the prisoners fall asleep peacefully. Distorted
faces and excretions, such as could be seen before, are no longer
noticed.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 13:50:00 PDT 1996
Article: 64436 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: "Dave Harman" Alleges Vague Threat On Milton Kleim By Anti-R
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199609070135.SAA02878@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> <09SEP96.14484396.0075@IBM.UTM.EDU> <512cjl$k0l@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 05:59:58 GMT
Lines: 23
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:29181 alt.politics.white-power:42872 alt.revisionism:64436 alt.skinheads:37166
bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) writes:
# I don't imagine very many "anti-racists" give a shit what
# happens to me, being blinded by base hatred as they are.
Message-ID: <1993Dec16.083247.7321@msus1.msus.edu>
From: hermann@TIGGER.STCLOUD.MSUS.EDU [Kleim]
> I am an admirer of Adolf Hitler. I embrace National Socialism.
> I would do so even if the Holocaust *were* fact, which I
> honestly believe it is not. I would do so even if Hitler and
> his system had killed *60* million Jews.
Why, who could *possibly* dislike someone who writes
stuff like this? Anyway, Milt, thanks for the quote. It
will be used extensively when discussing the true nature
of "Holocaust revisionism". A true classic.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Wed Sep 11 23:18:04 PDT 1996
Article: 64529 of alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: THE CRIME THAT DARE NOT SPEAK IT'S NAME
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50t14j$19d@juliana.sprynet.com> <511g15$d6r@morgana.netcom.net.uk>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:30:21 GMT
Lines: 15
I have actually responded to the "STREICHER vs EHRENBURG"
posted by "rblackmore" (aka "jbellings").
While Ehrenburg's anti-German writing was indeed violent
and hateful, it was directed at an enemy that invaded his
country, regarded its citizens as "sub-human", and butchered
huge numbers of civilians and POW's.
Streicher, on the other hand, attacked and called to
murder a small, unarmed, unprotected minority which was
not guilty of any crime.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 07:33:58 PDT 1996
Article: 64570 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: JBelling is still a troll... Re: Mark Van Alstine RAGES
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <515rpa$6v2@juliana.sprynet.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:16:05 GMT
Lines: 48
The "revisionists" often claim that the memoir of Rudolph Hoess,
commandant of Auschwitz, was "dictated" to him during his trial
in Poland. According to the "revisionists", the Poles and Soviets
told Hoess what to write. Naturally, they offer no proof of this.
Looking at the memoir, we see that Hoess writes, among other
things, that:
1) The Soviet POW's in Auschwitz behaved like a herd of animals.
Hoess writes that they practiced cannibalism, and often killed
each other for a piece of bread.
Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Soviets
would "dictate" something like this to Hoess?
Hoess also writes that -
2) The Polish inmates were constantly engaged in violent clashes
among themselves, while trying to reach a higher status in the
inmate hierarchy. He even says that many of them intentionally
infected others with spotted fever and typhus, which resulted
in the death of the infected person.
Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles
would "dictate" something like this to Hoess?
Hoess also writes that -
3) The total number of deaths in Auschwitz was about 1.2 million
(a rather accurate estimation). But the Soviets and the Poles
claimed at that time, and years later, that 4 million people
were murdered in the camp.
Can anyone offer any rational explanation as to why the Poles
and Soviets would "dictate" to Hoess a figure far lower than
the one they gave? Had they "dictated" his memoir to him, they
would obviously tell him to give a figure similar to theirs. But
Hoess not only gives a far lower figure, he also mocks the higher
estimates!
The obvious conclusion is that Hoess' memoir was not "dictated"
to him. The claim that it was is just one more insane
"revisionist" conjecture, unsupported by any evidence and
contradicting basic logic.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:23 PDT 1996
Article: 64695 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: FAX me an outline of your COCK!
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <5164h8$h96@sjx-ixn3.ix.netcom.com> <517tph$44e@lendl.cc.emory.edu>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 11:54:15 GMT
Lines: 13
libwca@larry.cc.emory.edu (william c anderson) writes:
# This poor woman is going to get a faxed tracing of Tom
# Moran's head...
And, I am afraid, it will be smaller than the other
tracings she will get.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:24 PDT 1996
Article: 64696 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'They probably thought they were being inoculated'
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:07:39 GMT
Lines: 161
(Four Polish witnesses, three of them doctors, and two SS men, testify
about murder with phenol injections in Auschwitz. Among the murdered
were 120 children from the village of Zamosc).
All the following testimonies are excerpted from "Auschwitz: the
Proceedings Against Mulka and Others" by Bernd Nauman. The SS men
who usually did the killing were Hantl, Scherpe, and Klehr (who also
participated in the gassing operations).
Testimony of Professor Fejkiel from Cracow (Poland) who was arrested by
the Nazis and imprisoned in Auschwitz between October 1940 and January
1945 (p. 153-4):
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The witness reports that the experiments to kill prisoners with
injections were begun in 1942.
"First they tried benzine, but that turned out to be impractical. I
know of a case where death did not occur for forty-five minutes. They
looked for a quicker method. The second medium was hydrogen; then came
phenolic acid".
First it was administered intravenously, then directly into the heart:
"I assume that the intravenous method took too long".
"Do you know who killed, where the murders took place, and how many
people were the victims of such injections?"
"I will begin with the number killed: I assume that about 30,000 people
were killed in this fashion".
First came infirm Jews, then other hospital patients, then people not
hospitalized, including prisoners "which the Gestapo sent in a round-
about way".
"Who did the killing?"
"At first Dr. Entress himself, then Klehr, and then - in this order -
Scherpe and Hantl. Hantl did it rarely. We thought of Hantl as a decent
man and were surprised that he did it".
Testimony of SS men Klehr (p. 71):
------------------------------------------
"How did you kill these prisoners?"
"Well, like before. With a shot of phenol into the heart".
SS men Scherpe is asked about the murder of the Zamosc children (p. 79):
-----------------------------------------------------------------
According to testimony by numerous witnesses during the pretrial
hearing, at least 119 children were murdered with phenol injections
in the closing days of February, 1943. Force was used to get them into
the executioner's chair, and Scherpe himself gave them the lethal
injection into their hearts. It was so horrible that the "medic" ran
away in desperation. The next day his colleague Hantl, a co-defendant,
murdered the remaining 80 children.
"You broke down and couldn't go on?" the judge asks.
"That is exaggerated. It isn't true".
Scherpe no longer wants to admit what he himself said earlier, that the
children, panic-stricken, had screamed.
"That is not so. I didn't say that. It is also not true. They suspected
nothing. They probably thought they were being inoculated".
The last boy waiting outside began to cry and called for his companions
who didn't return. And that was the only indication the defendant had
that the children may have feared death.
Polish physician, Dr. Klodzinski, testifies about the murder of the
Zamosc children (p. 152):
--------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the afternoon came the order to kill the children. They were led
into the washroom, and told to undress and line up. And then Scherpe
came; I still remember that".
Klodzinski speaks of the dead silence in Block 20 at that moment;
nothing was heard except thumps "- it was a muffled sound" - as the
heads and bodies of the slain children fell to the floor of the
washroom.
"Suddenly Scherpe came out of the room and said 'I can't anymore', and
left. After a while Hantl took his place and and murdered the remaining
children".
Warsaw physician Dr. Glowacki testifies (p. 137-8):
---------------------------------------------------
"How many in your opinion were selected by the defendant [Klehr] on his
own authority?"
"He certainly selected and killed more than 10,000".
[...]
But the witness saw how Scherpe "personally administered injections in
Block 20. It happened during the murder of children from the vicinity
of Zamosc. There were so many of them that they had to line them up
between the barracks. Some of the children wee led into the area of
Block 20, where Scherpe killed them while the others were still playing
outside. There were more than 100".
He remembers this case so well because Scherpe had suddenly paused. "We
thought he was conscience-stricken and that was the reason he broke off
in the middle of murdering the children. I clearly remember him
stopping. He left, and we never saw him again after that. Hantl took
over. Hantl finished the murder of the children".
Stanislaus Glowa testifies (p. 183-186):
----------------------------------------
Glowa, like many of the witnesses who preceded him, tells of the
"experimental gassing" at the end of 1941 in Block 11, of the slayings
with phenol, first at Block 28 and then in Block 20 of the prisoner
hospital.
"Klehr, Scherpe and Hantl regularly took part in the killings with
phenol. But I would like to point out at this time, for the sake of
justice, if I had to set up a scale of responsibility, that the last-
named behaved like saints compared to Klehr".
[...]
The court also hears this witness tell of the fate of 120 boys from the
Polish village of Zamosc. Their parents had been killed, and the
children were brought to Auschwitz, where, after a few weeks, it was
decided to kill them as well. Work-detail leader Palitzch brought them
into the courtyard of the hospital on a February morning in 1943, where
the played and were given food by older prisoners.
"They were hungry and frightened and told of having been beaten. All of
us felt sorry for them. Again and again they asked: 'Will we be killed?
Why?'. They had to wait a few hours to the end".
Prisoner-clerk Glowa sat in the aisle of hospital building 20, where
almost daily he crossed of the names of patients "injected" by Klehr
>from the list of inmates. Not far from where he sat was the curtain
behind which the victims had to stand in the corridor until a prisoner
took them into the "examination room" where Klehr was waiting for them
with his phenol injection.
"Scherpe and Hantl came in that afternoon, and they worked for a long
time. In order to shorten the terrible torment of the children, I would
take them to the curtain and tell them they are going to be bathed. The
first ones had screamed with terror in the room".
"Do you have children"? Glowa asks in a breaking voice, and then
continues: "It was horrible. Why did they kill us? That is why I
helped, to shorten the torment. After it was over I saw Hantl in a
state of complete collapse".
The court at Frankfurt sentenced Klehr to life in prison, Scherpe to
4 years and 6 months, Hantl to 3 years and 6 months. Since Hantl had
served his sentence in confinement awaiting trial, he left the court a
free man.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:25 PDT 1996
Article: 64697 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'The strain on the furnaces was colossal'
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:05:34 GMT
Lines: 53
Kurt Prufer, senior engineer of Topf and Sohne, testifying in Erfurt,
Germany, March 5, 1946
[Quoted from the interrogation transcripts by Prof. Gerald Fleming
>from the University of Surrey, in an NYT article, July 18 1993]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Q. Who apart from you participated in the construction of the furnaces?
A. From 1941-2, I constructed the furnaces. The technical drawings were
done by Mr. Keller. The ventilation systems of the "Kremas"
[crematoriums] were constructed by senior engineer Karl Schultze.
Q. How often and with what aim did you visit Auschwitz?
A. Five times. The first time at the beginning of 1943, to receive orders
of the SS Command where the Kremas were to be built. The second time in
spring 1943 to inspect the building site. The third time was in autumn
1943 to inspect a fault in the construction of a Krema chimney. The
forth time at the beginning of 1944, to inspect the repaired chimney. the
fifth time in September-October 1944, when I visited Auschwitz with the
intended relocation [from Auschwitz] of the crematoriums, since the
front was getting nearer. The crematoriums were not relocated, because
there were not enough workers.
Q. Were you the sole Topf engineer in Auschwitz in spring 1943?
A. No, [senior engineer Karl] Schultze was with me in Auschwitz at the time.
I saw personally about 60 corpses of women and men of different ages,
which were being prepared for incineration. That was at 10 in the
morning. I witnessed the incineration of six corpses and and came to the
conclusion that the furnaces were working well.
Q. Did you see a gas chamber next to the crematoriums?
A. Yes, I did see one next to the crematorium. Between the gas chamber and
the crematorium there was a connecting structure.
Q. Did you know that in the gas chamber and in the crematoriums there took
place the liquidation of innocent human beings?
A. I have known since spring 1943 that innocent human beings were being
liquidated in Auschwitz gas chambers and that their corpses were
subsequently incinerated in the crematoriums.
Q. Who is the designer of the ventilation systems for the gas chambers?
A. Schultze was the designer of the ventilation systems in the gas chambers;
and he installed them.
Q. Why was the brick lining of the muffles so quickly damaged?
A. The bricks were damaged after six months because the strain on the
furnaces was colossal.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 12:39:26 PDT 1996
Article: 64735 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Where's Giwer?
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:21:50 GMT
Lines: 5
Did the unemployed bum finally find a job or what?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 14:30:28 PDT 1996
Article: 64756 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Work Camp' With Five Crematoriums?
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:52:33 GMT
Lines: 12
In continuation to the previous thread, I would still
like our "revisionist scholars" to explain the following:
Why does a "work camp" need five huge crematoriums with
52 cremation furnaces?
Did anyone ever hear of a "work camp" with such incredible
cremation capacity?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Thu Sep 12 14:30:29 PDT 1996
Article: 64759 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The Vergasungskeller mystery solved?
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50v3b6$arg@Vir.com> <518207$3an@Vir.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:43:06 GMT
Lines: 36
Jean-Francois Beaulieu wrote:
# Typhus continued to kill to a lower extent after 1942.
So why did the camp need four new, huge crematoriums,
completed in 1943? But you do know the answer, right?
But never mind... keep playing your idiotic games. You
must enjoy them.
Nice to see, however, that you don't post any more lies
about Richard Baer. At least we have cleared that one.
# that this was done in the undressing room, they had no
# choice to remove there clothes and this was the normal
# place to do it.
What rubbish. You're saying a huge cellar was built especially
for undressing the corpses? They couldn't just undress them
in the morgue? They had to build this huge cellar, called
the "undressing room", undress the corpses there, and then
move them to the "morgue"... can you really be so stupid
to believe this?
It's simply amazing to see what level of insanity these
people reach when trying to distort reality. But Beaulieu
has not yet gone as far as Leuchter, who suggested that the
"gassing cellar" was really the furnace room, which was being
heated by the furnaces, and that Bischoff wanted the corpses
placed there so they "would not freeze"!!
What a bunch of crazies.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:21 PDT 1996
Article: 64962 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: 'Roberts' and His Stupid Lies, Again (Re: Stumpy is easily a
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:23:59 GMT
Lines: 24
Jeffrey writes:
# "I talked to hundreds of people who serviced and
# operated the crematoria," he continued, but the people
# who operated gas chambers were impossible to find "
You never give up on this stupidity, "Roberts"?
Stark? Bauer? Fuchs? Findeisen? Burmeister? Hoffman?
Kramer? Laabs?
Just some of the people who spoke at length about how
they operated the gas chambers?
Doesn't the fact that you continue to post a proven
lie, bother you? But then again, you're a "revisionist";
you're supposed to lie.
But you use stupid lies, which are very easy to refute.
can't you try harder, dummkopf?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:21 PDT 1996
Article: 64977 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: ZYCLON B - USED TO DESTROY VERMIN
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:24:41 GMT
Lines: 16
Testimony of SS-Unterscharfuehrer Pery Broad, describing gassing in
Krema I in Auschwitz
[Quoted in "KL Auschwitz as Seen by the SS", p. 176]
-------------------------------------------------------------
... The "disinfectors" were at work. One of them was SS-Unterscharfuehrer
Teuer, decorated with the Cross of War Merit. With a chisel and a
hammer they opened a few innocuously looking tins which bore the
inscription "Cyclon, to be used against vermin. Attention, poison!
to be opened by trained personnel only!". The tins were filled to
the brim with blue granules the size of peas. Immediately after
opening the tins, their contents was thrown into the holes which
were then quickly covered. Meanwhile Grabner gave a sign to the driver
of a lorry, which had stopped close to the crematorium. The driver
started the motor and its deafening noise was louder than the
death cries of the hundreds of people inside, being gassed to death.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:22 PDT 1996
Article: 64981 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1) HOMOCIDAL GASSING IS PROPAGANDA FICTION
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <92Q+TGAYqFOyEwUu@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:03:43 GMT
Lines: 14
Letter from SS-Sturmbannfuehrer Bischoff, of the Auschwitz construction
department, to SS General Kammler, January 29, 1943
[The Final Solution: The Attempt to Exterminate the Jews of Europe,
1939-1945 - G. Reitlinger, South Brunswick, T. Yosellof, 1968, p. 158-159]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Crematorium No. 2. The completed furnaces have been started up in
the presence of Engineer Prufer from Messers. Topf (of Erfurt). The
planks cannot yet be moved from the ceiling of the mortuary cellar
on account of frost, but this is not important, as the gassing
cellar can be used for that purpose. The ventilation plant has
been held up by restrictions on rail transport, but the installation
should be ready by February 20th.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:23 PDT 1996
Article: 64982 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: CREMATORY RATES SHOW "GASSING" IS PROPAGANDA LIES!
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:18:27 GMT
Lines: 11
http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi?camps/auschwitz/images/
furnace-capacity.jpg
Letter from Jahrling to Kammler, stating that the combined
crematoriums in Auschwitz-Birkenau can cremate 4,756 corpses
in 24 working hours.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:24 PDT 1996
Article: 64983 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1) HOMOCIDAL GASSING IS PROPAGANDA FICTION
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <92Q+TGAYqFOyEwUu@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:04:08 GMT
Lines: 21
SS-Doctor Kremer about his days at Auschwitz:
[Quoted in 'The Good Old Days' - E. Klee, W. Dressen, V. Riess, The
Free Press, NY, 1988, p. 258].
-------------------------------------------------------------------
I remember I once took part in the gassing of one of these groups
of women [from the women's camp in Auschwitz]. I cannot say how
big the group was. when I got close to the bunker I saw them
sitting on the ground. They were still clothed. As they were
wearing worn-out camp clothing they were not left in the undressing
hut but made to undress in the open air. I concluded from the
behavior of these women that they had no doubt what fate awaited
them, as they begged and sobbed to the SS men to spare them their
lives. However, they were herded into the gas chambers and gassed.
As an anatomist I have seen a lot of terrible things: I had had
a lot of experience with dead bodies, and yet what I saw that
day was like nothing I had ever seen before. Still completely
shocked by what I had seen I wrote on my diary on 5 September
1942: "The most dreadful of horrors. Hauptscharfuehrer Thilo was
right when he said to me today that this is the 'anus mundi', the
anal orifice of the world". I used this image because I could not
imagine anything more disgusting and horrific.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:24 PDT 1996
Article: 64984 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BUCHENWALD Myths and Facts
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:14:56 GMT
Lines: 9
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/
buchenwald/images
(BTW, compare the appearance of the German civilians living
near the camp with the skeletal corpses of the inmates).
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:25 PDT 1996
Article: 64985 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 1) HOMOCIDAL GASSING IS PROPAGANDA FICTION
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <92Q+TGAYqFOyEwUu@stumpy.demon.co.uk>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:57:40 GMT
Lines: 37
Letter from Dr. Erhard Wetzel to Reichskommissar Lohse, October 25, 1941
[Hitler and the Final Solution - G. Fleming, University of California
Press, 1984, p. 70]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
With regard to my letter of 18 October 1941, please be informed that
Oberdiensleiter [Chief Executive Officer] Brack from the Fuehrer's
Chancellory has stated his readiness to assist in the construction of
the necessary accommodations and gassing apparatuses, so they must
first be constructed. Brack's view is that, since construction of the
apparatuses within the Reich would present far greater difficulties
than on-site production, the most expedient course of action is to
send his people directly to Riga, in particular his chemist Dr.
Kallmeyer, who will take the necessary steps from there.
Oberdiensleiter Brack further points out that the procedure in
question is not without its hazards, and that therefore special safety
precautions are needed. Under these circumstances, I ask you to
contact Oberdiensleiter Brack in the Fuehrer's Chancellory through
your higher SS and Police leader. Please request from him the
dispatching of the chemist Dr. Kallmeyer and any further assistants
that are needed. I might further point out that Sturmbannfuehrer
Eichmann, the adviser on Jewish affairs in the Reich main security
office, is in complete accord with this procedure. According to the
information received here from Sturmbannfuehrer Eichmann, camps for
Jews will be set up in Riga and Minsk, where Jews from the Altreich
[Germany proper] might also be sent. Jews are currently being
evacuated from the Altreich to Lodz and other camps, from which those
fit for work will be transferred to work forces in the east. Given the
present situation, Jews who are not fit for work can be eliminated
without qualms through use of the Brack device. Incidents such as
those that took place during the shootings of Jews in Vilna, according
to a report I have on my desk, can hardly be sanctioned, keeping in
mind that the executions were undertaken openly, and the new
procedures assure that such incidents will no longer be possible. Jews
fit for work, on the other hand, will be transported to work forces in
the east. That the men and women in this latter group must be kept
apart from each other goes without saying. Please keep me informed as
to any further measures you take.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:26 PDT 1996
Article: 64998 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Not this Rubbish Again? (Re: DIESEL GAS CHAMBERS A
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:45:34 GMT
Lines: 60
Now, now, "Roberts". We have been through this many, many
times. Good thing about it is that we now have these FAQ's...
You must be aware of the series of experiments, reported in
the Pattle et. al. paper, in which animals were killed
with the exhaust of a tiny 6 BHP diesel engine. For some
other comments -
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) posted:
# dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren) wrote:
## A high concentration of CO can
## kill people in the same duration of time a lower
## concentration of HCN will kill them.
# There is none from a diesel engine. Even you
# should know that.
"The Significance of Diesel-Exhaust-Gas Analysis", by
J.C. Holtz and M.A. Elliot, Transactions of the ASME,
Vol. 63, 1941, p. 97-105:
Reports that in a series of experiments, when a diesel
engine was run rich (that is, with a high fuel-to-air
ratio), up to 6 percent CO was present in the
exhaust; this is way beyond the lethal concentration,
which is 0.4 percent (see graph on page 98, table
on page 99).
## Moreover, engine exhaust contains other lethal gases,
## such as NO2. Also, it's easy to tune the engine so
## that its exhaust hardly contains any oxygen (see
## Holtz-Elliot paper, often quoted here).
# Not a diesel.
Unfortunately for the 163-IQ man, the same graph and
table in the Holtz-Elliot paper show he's totally wrong
about this too. In high fuel-air ratios, there is
practically no oxygen in the exhaust; in lower ratios
(say, 0.056) there's only 3.4 percent of oxygen in the
exhaust.
Even before the ratio is high enough to create large
amounts of CO in the exhaust, the oxygen levels drop
sharply as the ratio is increased.
Holocaust deniers (such as Luftl and Berg), claim
that diesel fumes can never be lethal. This only
goes to show that either they're lying, or that
they haven't got the foggiest idea of what they're
talking about.
The Holtz-Elliot paper, and other scientific articles,
clearly prove that it is a trivial matter to
tune a diesel engine so that its exhaust is lethal.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:26 PDT 1996
Article: 65059 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: BELSEN Myths and Facts
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References:
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:31:15 GMT
Lines: 67
Testimony of Mr. Harold Le Druillence from Jersey, former prisoner
in Belsen, who was "employed" as corpse carrier there:
(p. 60-61)
We made our way along the central road towards the burial pit. Along
this road, stationed at intervals, were orderlies to see that the
flow of dead to the pits carried on smoothly; they were particulalry
numerous near the kitchen and the resevoir water. One of the most
cruel things in this particular work was the fact that we passed
this water regularly on every trip, and although we were dying
of thirst we were not allowed to touch it or get anywhere near.
[...]
I would like you to picture what this endless chain of dead going
to the pits must have looked like for about five days from sunrise
to sunset. How many were buried I have no idea. It must have been
vast numbers - certainly five figures.
You didn't dare to fall out, but many collapsed on the way - just
lay dead by the roadside, or died. They in turn were lifted by a
team of four and taken to the pits. People died like flies on the
way to these pits. They did not have the necessary energy to drag
even those very light bodies. A man who faltered was usually hit
on the head.
(p. 62)
I saw plenty of shooting, usually for no reason at all. Sometimes
there was a hidden reason which we learned of only after many
dozen had been killed; for example, at the north entrance of
the mortuary yard many people had been killed before we realized
that the particular guard in charge of that gateway wanted to
see people go through at the double dragging the dead body
behind. He was a member of the Hungarian guard [1], but the
shooting was not confined to Hungarians; it was simply terrible,
hundreds were shot per day.
Testimony of SS-doctor, Obersturmfuherer Fritz Klein (p. 717):
------------------------------------------------------------
Whilst at Belsen I made several complaints to Kommandant Kramer
about the conditions there. I was told that I was only a doctor
and that it was nothing to do with me. Three days before the
British came, when I took over the camp, I had a talk with
Kramer about the conditions. I told Kramer that the corpses
should be removed, and that water should be supplied to
prisoners as many were dying from thirst. Kramer said he did
not take orders from me.
Testimony of Herta Ehlert, a member of the SS unit at Belsen (p. 709):
---------------------------------------------------------------------
The conditions in Belsen were a shame and a disgrace. I consider
that the people chiefly responsible were Kramer the Kommandant,
Dr. Horstmann, Untersturmfuehrer Klipp, who was for some time
Kramer's second in command, and Haupsturfuehrer Vogler, who
worked in Kramer's office and was responsible for food supply.
I say that Kramer was responsible for the conditions, among
other reasons, because on one occasion when I complained of the
increasing death rate to Kramer he replied, "let them die, why
should you care?".
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 09:38:27 PDT 1996
Article: 65065 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: Holocaust Almanac: Ivan Dem'yanyuk at Sobibor
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <50u1vf$9lk@viper.txdirect.net> <519ghn$7s2@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Fri, 13 Sep 1996 06:29:48 GMT
Lines: 16
mgiwer@ix.netcom.com (Matt Giwer) writes:
Matty! You're back! I thought you may have found a job,
but, well, one has to be realistic...
# The cowardly Abraham Bomba was the head barber in this
# operation. He tells a different story on Shoah.
He was in Treblinka, this testimony you're commenting
on is about Sobibor.
Why are you so stupid?
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Fri Sep 13 15:22:03 PDT 1996
Article: 65134 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Victims and Murderers: Photographs from Belsen Camp
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:44:44 GMT
Lines: 34
The following photos are in
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?camps/bergen-belsen/images
They are all scanned from "The Belsen Trial" - Edited by R. Phillips,
William Hodge and Company, 1949.
Belsen01.jpg: A Mass grave in Belsen camp.
Belsen02.jpg: A bulldozer being used to bury corpses in Belsen.
Belsen03.jpg: Emaciated corpses in Belsen.
Belsen04.jpg: Plump, overweight SS-women bury skeletal corpses in Belsen.
Belsen05.jpg: The corpse of a child is thrown into a mass grave in Belsen.
The following photos, of some of the SS staff in Belsen (and before
that, in Auschwitz-Birkenau) are in:
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/b/bormann.juana/images/
Bormann.jpg: Juana Bormann, murderous SS-woman (served in Auschwitz
and Belsen).
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/h/hoessler.franz/images/:
Hoessler.jpg: SS-officer Franz Hoessler in front of a truckload of
corpses in Belsen.
http://www.almanac.bc.ca/cgi-bin/ftp.pl?people/k/kramer.joseph/images/
Kramer.jpg: Joseph Kramer, who served as commandant of Auschwitz
II (Birkenau) and later Belsen.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sat Sep 14 01:28:53 PDT 1996
Article: 65301 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: MEN NEEDED FOR EROTIC GAMES!
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <516035$2st@sjx-ixn6.ix.netcom.com>
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:26:50 GMT
Lines: 11
# Hi! My name is Wendy! I'm looking for a few good men! Well
# actually more than a few!
#
# I am 5'9", 115 lbs, with blonde hair, blue eyes, and....
# well...Im built. I'll send you a picture!.
No use. Giwer will insist it's a forgery.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Sun Sep 15 17:47:19 PDT 1996
Article: 65900 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.politics.nationalism.white,alt.politics.white-power,alt.revisionism,alt.skinheads
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: The more things change...
Message-ID:
Organization: The World, Public Access Internet, Brookline, MA
References: <199609070135.SAA02878@abraham.cs.berkeley.edu> <512cjl$k0l@freenet-news.carleton.ca> <517g6v$g2c@freenet-news.carleton.ca>
Date: Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:40:38 GMT
Lines: 53
Xref: nizkor.almanac.bc.ca alt.politics.nationalism.white:29649 alt.politics.white-power:43379 alt.revisionism:65900 alt.skinheads:37528
bb748@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Milton Kleim) writes:
[About his article of Dec. 1993, which I quoted]
# The seasons change, the fields change, moods change...even
# "Nazis" like me, change.
That's good to hear.
# But, it's apparent one thing still has not changed, and
# that's the hateful hearts of some of my former (?) opponents.
No. If you have truly changed, my opinion on you will change
too - whether you care about it or not.
# If you want to be a spiteful and vengeful bird,
No, I don't; it's not my style. You can ask those on this
group who know me personally to some extent, as Jamie McCarthy
and Rich Graves.
# Yes, I said the above, and as I've explained, I regret those
# statements which were said in anger and resentment.
Well, this is certainly a surprise for me, I have to say; I do
believe, however, that people can change, more so young people (no
patronizing intended - this is a statement of fact). If you
have indeed changed, that's good news in my opinion, and I wish
you the best of luck in your new life.
I can't tell, from the little you have written, what is the
extent of this change; which, if any, of your previous
opinions you still hold; but you have taken, it seems, a
step in the right direction. And the first step is probably
the hardest.
# But, it reveals a sinister vindictiveness on your part to
# present the above quote, said long, long ago, when I had a very
# different mindset, as though it represents something I believe
# today.
Agreed. It would be interesting, however, to know what made you
adopt these beliefs in the first place.
# Danny Keren remains a man driven by base, negative emotions...hate,
# resentment, vanity.
Not really, as this article should indicate.
Posted/e-mailed.
-Danny Keren.
From dkeren@world.std.com Mon Sep 16 06:11:09 PDT 1996
Article: 65998 of alt.revisionism
Newsgroups: alt.revisionism
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From: dkeren@world.std.com (Daniel Keren)
Subject: Re: 'Work Camp' With Five Crematoriums?
Message-ID: