Augusta councilors favor selling forfeited guns

Augusta police Officer Brad Chase examines a pistol before recovering records about the gun in storage Wednesday at the police station. Staff photo by Andy Molloy

AUGUSTA — City councilors said the city should sell, not destroy, most firearms forfeited to police, but not guns used in homicides or other violent crimes.

City administrators and police had brought a policy question for city councilors to discuss Thursday: When the city ends up with guns forfeited for various reasons to police, should those guns be sold or destroyed?

Most councilors indicated informally the city should sell guns it ends up with, other than guns used in violent crimes such as homicides.

“This is obviously a sensitive topic right now,” Ward 3 Councilor Patrick Paradis said, referring to the Oct. 1 shooting deaths of nine victims at Umpqua Community College in Oregon. However, Paradis agreed with other councilors who said Thursday that the city should sell the weapons to a licensed firearms dealer.

“But if it has been involved in a violent crime, or been seized by police more than once in commission of a crime, it should be destroyed,” Paradis said. “I like the idea. If it has been used in a crime to victimize somebody, we ought to consider destroying the weapon, so it doesn’t victimize someone else.”

No councilors spoke in favor of destroying all guns so they could never be used again.

“I have no problem with the idea of putting these out to bid,” Ward 2 Councilor Darek Grant said. “It’s pretty routine. We’ve done this with real estate, talked about how to move forward, as a council. That’s very similar to what we’re doing tonight.”

At-Large Councilor Jeffrey Bilodeau said he doesn’t think the city should sell assault-type weapons or guns that hold more than 30 rounds.

City resident Jarody, who has only one name, objected to that preference.

“To just destroy something because it’s a better tool, which is essentially what a firearm is — a tool — that’s not right,” Jarody said in advocating that the city also sell larger-capacity firearms if it has any in its forfeited inventory. “Especially when there is a potential price tag on that tool.”

City Manager William Bridgeo said the city previously has sold seized guns to licensed gun dealers who bid on the firearms, though it has not done so in many years.

He said the city would sell the firearms only to a licensed, reputable dealer. Licensed firearms dealers must conduct background checks before selling any guns.

The city’s Police Department ends up with guns, other than the firearms purchased for use by officers, in a variety of ways, according to Deputy Chief Jared Mills.

Some are seized during police busts and/or forfeited in court proceedings. Some guns are recovered during an investigation into a theft, and the guns are never claimed by their original owners, or the owners can’t be identified. Some are held by the department for safekeeping, and the owner never comes back to get them. Some are used in a suicide.

Mills said the department has 72 firearms it has inventoried and could sell. He said it also has another 30 or so that have not yet been inventoried to verify they could be sold. He said the guns that could be sold include 27 rifles and 45 handguns.

Some of the guns the city has had since the 1980s, Mills said.

Asked by councilors if he had a professional opinion on what the city should do with the guns, Mills said he did not. He joked his only opinion is he wants to reclaim the space the accumulated weapons are taking up in the department’s evidence locker.

Mills said he checked with other local police departments and found that none of them destroy such guns.

In Waterville, according to police Chief Joseph Massey, when police end up with forfeited firearms, the department keeps them until it is time to buy new weapons for officers. Then the department trades in those guns and gets a credit for them from the manufacturer toward the purchase of new firearms for officers.

In Portland, firearms used in a crime are always destroyed, following any necessary waiting period, according to Jessica Grondin, the city’s communications director. She said unclaimed firearms are advertised as abandoned property and, if they remain unclaimed, also are destroyed.

Grondin said when firearms are unusual or “tactically valuable,” Portland police keep the weapon for training purposes.

The issue first came up in Augusta earlier this year as councilors discussed a request from police Chief Robert Gregoire to sell items acquired by his department, other than firearms. During that discussion, councilors asked what the city does with firearms it acquires.

Bridgeo said the guns can range from “pea shooters” worth only $5 to potentially collectible guns that could be worth hundreds or even thousands of dollars. He said if they are sold, the Police Department doesn’t keep the money, as the funds go back into the city’s general fund.

Some councilors suggested dedicating the proceeds from the sale of the guns to domestic violence prevention programming.

Bridgeo said the city could sell the guns and then councilors, once they know how much that raised, could decide what to do with the proceeds.

Mills said if the council were to decide to have the guns destroyed, the guns could be either melted down, cut in three places or crushed. If they are destroyed, he said, that would need to take place under police supervision.

Bridgeo said what to do with the guns is a policy matter that is “clearly the City Council’s call.”

Mayor David Rollins asked Mills to complete the inventory of the guns and bring that information back to councilors when it is ready, likely in a couple of weeks.

Bridgeo said councilors then could consider a resolution to authorize the Police Department to hold an auction with only licensed firearms dealers allowed to participate and sell all the guns together as a single lot.

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tired of the political foolish

“we ought to consider destroying the weapon, so it doesn’t victimize someone else.” Typically liberal thought process..so the GUN doesn’t victimize someone else. Were these things manufactured by some King character? Are they possessed? Some have been in the evidence locker for 25 years, have they been repeat “offenders” in that time period, or will they be once they are released. Is there a recidivism rate for weapons?

If they have been used to injure someone..destroy they for the sake of the victim. NOT to keep them from offending again

lotekguy

Exactly the reaction I had when I read those words. Some liberals actually seem to believe guns are living creatures, with the ability to choose their victims. So let’s see……it wasn’t the bigoted white cop who killed Michael Brown in self defense–it was his racist gun. Give officer Darren Wilson back his job, and lock up his gun! Better yet, destroy it before it murders another innocent, unarmed young black man!

jonjon_jon

It’s kind of like if you had a car that was involved in a hit and run, you’d destroy the car to make sure it didn’t do it again.

lotekguy

Hey, if I was driving that could be my defense—- “But your honor, it wasn’t me, it was the car that ran over those pedestrians then sped off.” “Honest, judge. The thing has a mind or its own, like this gun here……”

Patrick A. Turlo

The discussion is about destroying guns that have been used to kill and the impact that has on loved ones and family members. One could hopefully comment to the public forum, anonymously or not, without disdainful and snide remarks that trivialize the killing of young black Americans and the issue of bigots/racists in America.

lotekguy

There’s that morally superior posturing again. Don’t you ever get dizzy on that pedestal you share with your liberal friends?

Patrick A. Turlo

I made a ‘demand?’ Funny. Reprint it. “Anonymously or not” is not a ‘demand’ by any stretch of the imagination, even your ‘virulent’ imagination. The issue is about destroying guns in Augusta that were used to commit violent crimes. So far, the discussion has been deflected to ‘side-topics’ (I’m being generous there) dealing with and trivializing race relations; trivializing the killing of young black Americans (why even bring up ‘young black men?’); the myth of bigotry (amazing) and ‘imaginary’ racism (again, amazing); libelous statements about the purported theft of guns by the “Chief” of police, or the ‘mayo,r’ or the “city councilors;” the War of Poverty (as relates to destroying guns in Augusta, Maine in October of 2015?); and on and on ad nauseam. I still say those guns should be destroyed. Have you even said yes or no? Hard to tell as you bounce from one strange, sometimes-libelous, unrelated statement to the next. Respond to the group if you are so moved. I wont’ be reading it. I’m done. Finito. Outta here. Your ‘diversions’ and convoluted feints on each and every topic are quite simply a waste of time.

MovingForwardMaine

Your progressive rants are a major waste of time, but many of us know that’s what the progressive puppet masters demand of their underlings.

Liberal socio-economic policies, like LBJ’s War on Poverty, have destroyed the lives of more black Americans than the imaginary bigotry and racism leftists perceive lurking in the souls of conservatives.

Patrick A. Turlo

All guns have the potential to be used to victimize someone. All guns have the potential to be used legally and safely by responsible gun owners. I agree. Destroy for the sake of the victim and/or the victim’s loved ones.

lotekguy

Why would the victims or their families ever have to know? Would the authorities formally notify them of the transfer? And if the victim had died being intentionally run over by a car, should the car be destroyed to spare the victim’s loved ones?

Patrick A. Turlo

If the policy is in place to not sell those guns, some loved ones would get some comfort. If the policy is to sell all the guns, the victim’s next of kin would know that, too. I agree with destroying the guns. You and jonjon_jon can discuss automobile accidents.

lotekguy

Love your ‘compassion’. Your logic, though, is questionable.

lotekguy

Just because the gun, when it was confiscated by police, hadn’t been involved in a crime at the time of seizure, how would anyone know it wasn’t involved in a vicious murder in the hands of a previous owner? The gun would have to be interrogated. If it didn’t cooperate, enhanced interrogation techniques could be used. Would liberals be upset if a detective waterboarded a gun??

williealso

Please name one person that a gun killed. now name how many people were killed by a person holding a gun. THERE IS A DIFFERENT!

yeaas

Maine – where the murderer can do their time and get out and the gun gets the death sentence.

SarcasticSeaGull

If the guns were sold to a gun dealer they would become registered when they were resold. The police could register the transfer the dealer and use the revenue for needed equipment.

BuddyDoyle

Last few days, I’ve been battling a cold. I got up this morning feeling much better – until I read this story. Now I’m going back to bed.

FreeMaine

Smart move! Sell the guns and put the money back into the police department to reduce our taxes!

Nina Sage

How many police have a private collection amassed over the years ? Some firearms never see the light of day once confiscated and given as rewards for service. Have a unique rifle or pistol? Once it’s in the hands of the police, you may never see it again.

lotekguy

Good point. Think that nearly new AR-15, or that pristine custom Kimber 1911 that were used in a crime have actually been destroyed? Sure they were, and if you believe that, I’ve got this bridge for sale…..No, these fine firearms are securely nestled in the gun safe at the Chief’s house. Or maybe the mayor’s or city councilor’s home, who actually voted in favor of destruction?? Hmmmmmmm

Patrick A. Turlo

How many police officers haven’t? How many are hard-working, honest women and men, sons, daughters, moms, and dads who put their lives on the line every day for us and would never even think to ‘take’ what is not theirs?

Nelson Donnell

They (government employees) all receive their wages out of the funds that are extorted (under color of law) from others. They are gangs of men and women who provide a service at the barrel of a gun.

gstrdr1966

Known several police/sherriff personnel. Never known one to steal from evidence. Sounds like cop-bashing BS to me. Just because a cop or two does it, does not mean “cops do it”.

Maggie Ricker

My brother, a cop, was murdered. It was very important to my parents that the gun be destroyed.

maineman11111

my grandfather,a cop, was murdered, on a traffic stop by 3 thugs.
no guns, they beat him to death and left him on the side of the road

maineman11111

how about donating the guns to needy maine families that cant afford to buy a gun.

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