'lambda13' Getting warm-er... The NHL belongs to the Owners - The Game and everyone who plays it. Fighting exists because they say it does, because they discovered long ago that there is an element out there who like it - who, maybe, need it. They found out that they could sell tickets to people who didn't have to have any interest in hockey whatsoever - 'they came for the fight and they stayed for the game' - They found that this worked, particularily well in markets where the game, in and of itself, could not fill the rink. There are rinks today that would be full all year long, that would be full even if there was never another fight in them ever - Montreal and Toronto and Vancouver, Detroit? ... and 'dezaruchi' 'Bingo!' As long as Owners cling to the 'short' money (the money they squeeze from the violence porn) they will never make the big bucks that would come from the thousands and thousands of people - not 'of my opinion' - who want to go to the game but don't like watching meaningless fights - and don't like exposing their kids to the ugly side of humanity just yet, the roar of the bloodlust, if you will. You're right, as long as the Owners are satisfied making the 2 dollars (or losing 2 dollars!) they get from fighting, they will never make 5 Now, if only we could teach dogs to skate and hold a hockey stick...hmm...Posted by Awry

Awry, correct me if I'm wrong but your post seems to indicate that you think more money could be made long-term if the NHL would eliminate fighting. I guess my question is why would these owners (obviously good buisinessmen just to get that rich) allow fighting if it will eventually cost them money? Do you really believe they haven't looked at the issue from all sides and decided to go with what works for them financially? Your posts seem to indicate you think you know better than them regarding the game's financial well being. I don't know you but I've got to say I'm skeptical that that's the case.

..and to this end, I know fighting won't be eliminated - Fighters would be.

Players whose sole purpose is fighting

Saying fighting's always been a 'part of the game' is disingenuous. Fighting used to be 'a part' of a player's skill set or tool box. Most players could fight as well as pass , shoot, score.Gordie Howe could fight, Bobby Orr could fight, Ray Bourque could fight, Wayne Gretzky could...well...Gretzky created all this. (the golden calf needed a bodyguard, now there's a bodyguard problem)

There is fighting in other sports when two players 'boil over' with one another - but those players are ejected - this is as it should be in the NHL.

The traditional argument is that fighting curtails the cheap shots and diffuses tense situations. What we're seeing is a culture change in the NHL, starting with Brendan Shanahan. We will soon see designated fighters become obsolete in the new NHL. I'm with NAS on this ... the staged, you have-to-go fights are ridiculous. That said, Thornton chipped in with ten goals last season, which is borderline third line appropriate. The guy can play, to say nothing of the fact that his teammates regularly speak to his leadership qualities. These staged fights are a byproduct of a watered down, 30-team league. Kill off the Panthers and 'Yotes and the goons find it even harder to crack NHL lineups.Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory

And one the year before, which is borderline beer league cheerleader appropriate.

The traditional argument is that fighting curtails the cheap shots and diffuses tense situations. What we're seeing is a culture change in the NHL, starting with Brendan Shanahan.

We will soon see designated fighters become obsolete in the new NHL. I'm with NAS on this ... the staged, you have-to-go fights are ridiculous. That said, Thornton chipped in with ten goals last season, which is borderline third line appropriate. The guy can play, to say nothing of the fact that his teammates regularly speak to his leadership qualities.

These staged fights are a byproduct of a watered down, 30-team league. Kill off the Panthers and 'Yotes and the goons find it even harder to crack NHL lineups.

In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown : It's a matter of giving him an opportunity, and he's shown he can handle regular work. I'm not cringing when I see him on the ice. A plus eight last year shows game. I won't get into a pissing match with you over this. I agree with you that the staged fighting needs to go. However, Thornton is a cut above most players with the assigned "enforcer role."Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory

A +8 shows he has game? He's out there with Paille and Campbell. As two of the B's better penalty killers, they're used to playing shorthanded anyway.

He's a cut above McGratton, who can barely skate.

The skating clowns are a joke and need to go away. If you aren't fighting because you are mad or because you are sending a message, your fight does not belong in hockey.

Everyone brings up alot of good points here, and i agree that there is a culture change going on right now, and partly because you have instigator penalites, punishment for starting a fight with less than 5 minutes in a game (message sending) does anyone think that has something to do with all the cheap head shots? If every team had a resident goon who didnt have to worry about above mentioned rules, would we have as many of these head shots? I dont remember this many in such a short period of time when it seems every team had a goon.

I think it has something, not all, but something to do with this. I agree staged fights are not the answer. How many bench clearing brawls are there today? Do you know how scary it is to be in a bench clearing brawl? Bad for the game but I wouldnt want to be the guy in a bench clearing brawl who just injured a star player and now I gotta get off the ice before Parros finds me in this melee.

theres a happy medium somewhere, but for god sakes start with changing the weapon like protection these players wear as shoulder and elbow pads, that for a fact, would reduce some of these injuries.

In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown : A +8 shows he has game? He's out there with Paille and Campbell. As two of the B's better penalty killers, they're used to playing shorthanded anyway. He's a cut above McGratton, who can barely skate. The skating clowns are a joke and need to go away. If you aren't fighting because you are mad or because you are sending a message, your fight does not belong in hockey.Posted by Not-A-Shot

No matter how many times I say I agree with you, you keep sniping at me. Let me reiterate my own arguments: 1) Thornton is better as an overall player than many of his comparables. 2) The size of the NHL ahas led to an overpopulation of goons/clowns/enforcers.3) We will see the fourth line evolve in the coming years from strictly strongmen to easing in star players who have skill but shouldn't be overexposed in terms of ice time. Seguin was a good example of this as he was eased into the league on that fourth line last season. 4) Yes the staged fights need to go.

In Response to Re: Clown vs. Clown : No matter how many times I say I agree with you, you keep sniping at me. Let me reiterate my own arguments: 1) Thornton is better as an overall player than many of his comparables. 2) The size of the NHL ahas led to an overpopulation of goons/clowns/enforcers. 3) We will see the fourth line evolve in the coming years from strictly strongmen to easing in star players who have skill but shouldn't be overexposed in terms of ice time. Seguin was a good example of this as he was eased into the league on that fourth line last season. 4) Yes the staged fights need to go.Posted by BruinsFanInPenTerritory

*YAWN* NAS is full of hot air when it comes to his dislikes. He doesn't get the fact that all the Bruins love Thorts & what he brings. He thinks what his idea of a "skating clown" is more right than the actual players who play with him thinks! If the Boston Bruin as a team like Shawn Thornton. Then that's good enough for me. No matter what NAS thinks will never change the teams attitude. Thank God!!

*YAWN* NAS is full of hot air when it comes to his dislikes. He doesn't get the fact that all the Bruins love Thorts & what he brings. He thinks what his idea of a "skating clown" is more right than the actual players who play with him thinks! If the Boston Bruin as a team like Shawn Thornton. Then that's good enough for me. No matter what NAS thinks will never change the teams attitude. Thank God!!Posted by nitemare-38