I might be wrong, but my understanding is there isn't going to be a print run beyond the kickstarter. All games through the kickstarter should come with the stretch goals. That could mean that a local game store would have some copies with the stretch items, but the store might also keep them or use them as giveaways if they aren't packaged in the box.

If you're wanting to pick it up, I don't see any benefit in waiting. I've been wanting to pick this up for some time, so I'm backing so I know I get a copy!

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

NeedsNewDice wrote:

I might be wrong, but my understanding is there isn't going to be a print run beyond the kickstarter. All games through the kickstarter should come with the stretch goals. That could mean that a local game store would have some copies with the stretch items, but the store might also keep them or use them as giveaways if they aren't packaged in the box.

This response doesn't really address any of the questions posed by the OP. Even if there is just a single print run to cover Kickstarter obligations, I'm pretty sure that many more games than just Kickstarter copies will be produced. Otherwise it doesn't make much financial sense for Pandasaurus to do a project like this.

Quote:

If you're wanting to pick it up, I don't see any benefit in waiting. I've been wanting to pick this up for some time, so I'm backing so I know I get a copy!

The possible benefit to waiting a few extra months is the chance to get a $10-$20 price break by purchasing through an online retailer like Coolstuffinc.com or BoardsandBits.com.

The possible benefit to waiting a few extra months is the chance to get a $10-$20 price break by purchasing through an online retailer like Coolstuffinc.com or BoardsandBits.com.

That's so true. Have been backing too many projects lately, spreading myself too lean. If the stretch goals are going to be standard, I'll wait for the local stores to carry them, which should be cheaper.

If the stretch goals are exclusive, that's a different story! The meeples are cool and adds theme to the game, and make backing the KS project worthwhile.

Will Pandasaurus confirm on this please? Also if the MSRP can be made known, it'll be much appreciated.

Just two months ago people everywhere were BEGGING for the game to be reprinted.

Now we're trying to figure out how to get a copy as cheaply as possible.

It's really simple. Tammany Hall is a shining example of using Kickstarter correctly. I hope for all the people who are putting their money (and trust) in Pandasaurus, that the stretch goals are kickstarter-exclusive. I probably would have paid 70 or 80 dollars a few months ago for this game because it was so rare. I sure as heck won't bat an eye to pay 50 now.

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

whattheproblemis wrote:

Just two months ago people everywhere were BEGGING for the game to be reprinted.

Now we're trying to figure out how to get a copy as cheaply as possible.

I really don't see a problem with this. Especially as I am one of those people that hadn't even heard about the game until after the Kickstarter was initiated.

Quote:

It's really simple. Tammany Hall is a shining example of using Kickstarter correctly. I hope for all the people who are putting their money (and trust) in Pandasaurus, that the stretch goals are kickstarter-exclusive. I probably would have paid 70 or 80 dollars a few months ago for this game because it was so rare. I sure as heck won't bat an eye to pay 50 now.

Or $55, as this is what most of the supporters will be paying.

My gut feel is it will be cheaper for Pandasaurus to make everything the same across the release, including the wooden bits. I could be wrong. If they find it is cheaper to run separate meeple designs through manufacturing, custom for Kickstarters and "non-custom" (or really, a second custom meeple) for non-Kickstarters, I suppose they will probably do that. But the volume of each production run would be reduced, which is more expensive. I don't see how the meeple designs are different enough to incur different manufacturing costs...but I'd best consult one of the chosen few in the "meeple manufacturing" industry before saying anything for certain.

Witholding a custom meeple from non-Kickstarter backers for any reason except incurring additional production cost seems a bit harsh. Is this what you are suggesting?

No, sorry - I'm just in a bad mood today, and part of that came out in my post.

A part of it though, is when rewards aren't kickstarter-exclusive, then it feels like some people are hoping to benefit from the money of others. If I pay $55 for the game because I really want to see the kickstarter campaign succeed, but others don't chip in and later get the game plus all rewards for $30 that kind of sucks.

I know that's how kickstarter works, though. It's just with this project, I feel Nate is doing this as a labor of love, and I want to support it BEFORE it hits stores, because without his persistence we might never have seen this game reprinted.

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

djgutierrez77 wrote:

looleypalooley wrote:

Witholding a custom meeple from non-Kickstarter backers for any reason except incurring additional production cost seems a bit harsh. Is this what you are suggesting?

It's not harsh. Exclusives are necessary to drive interest in the pre-orders. If everyone gets them, they're not an exclusive, and interest in pre-orders will wane.

Ok, agreed. I guess I was thinking about it from a production strategy viewpoint, trying to figure out whether it would incur additional cost to manufacture and package separate meeple styles, and whether that difference was more than accounted for in additional Kickstarter pledges. I don't have an answer to that question.

As Pandasaurus hasn't indicated whether these are exclusive or not, does that make Kickstarter backers uneasy / second guess your pledge?

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

whattheproblemis wrote:

No, sorry - I'm just in a bad mood today, and part of that came out in my post.

A part of it though, is when rewards aren't kickstarter-exclusive, then it feels like some people are hoping to benefit from the money of others. If I pay $55 for the game because I really want to see the kickstarter campaign succeed, but others don't chip in and later get the game plus all rewards for $30 that kind of sucks.

I know that's how kickstarter works, though. It's just with this project, I feel Nate is doing this as a labor of love, and I want to support it BEFORE it hits stores, because without his persistence we might never have seen this game reprinted.

I see your point.

I felt a similar emotion after backing Glory to Rome Blackbox (the most common pledge level was $35, for a Wood support level). This spring I see it go on Pre-order at BoardsandBits.com for around $22.00. With that campaign, the number of Kickstarter "bonuses" one received was wholly dependent upon how early on they initiated support for the fund-raising drive. So a supporter at the $35-level could get just about the same as was offered from an online retailer at $22. I'd think a lot of folks could be disappointed as a result. I'm feeling ok because I was able to pledge Stone early in the campaign (only $30/BlackBox plus more promo items than later backers).

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

whattheproblemis wrote:

Just two months ago people everywhere were BEGGING for the game to be reprinted.

Now we're trying to figure out how to get a copy as cheaply as possible.

It's really simple. Tammany Hall is a shining example of using Kickstarter correctly. I hope for all the people who are putting their money (and trust) in Pandasaurus, that the stretch goals are kickstarter-exclusive. I probably would have paid 70 or 80 dollars a few months ago for this game because it was so rare. I sure as heck won't bat an eye to pay 50 now.

I just had an interesting epiphany--both of us are acting solely on what provides the most inventive. As a Kickstarter backer, your pile of exclusive promos grows the more pledge levels are surpassed, encouraging a spirit of pledge-driveyness. As a non-Kickstarter backer (yet!), I am shopping around trying to figure out the best deal.

Just two months ago people everywhere were BEGGING for the game to be reprinted.

Now we're trying to figure out how to get a copy as cheaply as possible.

It's really simple. Tammany Hall is a shining example of using Kickstarter correctly. I hope for all the people who are putting their money (and trust) in Pandasaurus, that the stretch goals are kickstarter-exclusive. I probably would have paid 70 or 80 dollars a few months ago for this game because it was so rare. I sure as heck won't bat an eye to pay 50 now.

I just had an interesting epiphany--both of us are acting solely on what provides the most inventive. As a Kickstarter backer, your pile of exclusive promos grows the more pledge levels are surpassed, encouraging a spirit of pledge-driveyness. As a non-Kickstarter backer (yet!), I am shopping around trying to figure out the best deal.

Just two months ago people everywhere were BEGGING for the game to be reprinted.

Now we're trying to figure out how to get a copy as cheaply as possible.

It's really simple. Tammany Hall is a shining example of using Kickstarter correctly. I hope for all the people who are putting their money (and trust) in Pandasaurus, that the stretch goals are kickstarter-exclusive. I probably would have paid 70 or 80 dollars a few months ago for this game because it was so rare. I sure as heck won't bat an eye to pay 50 now.

Have you ever thought that some backers are not in the US? For us the game is costing 80 usd + importing taxes!

I really hope they are exclusive to kickstarter backers as there should be some reward at helping something get off the ground so to speak. Its also one of the reason that I am supporting the game (and there has to be a decent nuymber of people like myself) - mainly because I had never heard of nor played the game before and only came across it because of the KS campaign - I thought it looked like it could be a cool game, and getting some extra goodies for pledging some $ to the project was a big part of why I chose to, otherwise, yes I would feel a bit slighted if they were made standard to anyone that purchased the game.

"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep, to gain what he cannot lose."

birch97 wrote:

I really hope they are exclusive to kickstarter backers as there should be some reward at helping something get off the ground so to speak. Its also one of the reason that I am supporting the game (and there has to be a decent nuymber of people like myself) - mainly because I had never heard of nor played the game before and only came across it because of the KS campaign - I thought it looked like it could be a cool game, and getting some extra goodies for pledging some $ to the project was a big part of why I chose to, otherwise, yes I would feel a bit slighted if they were made standard to anyone that purchased the game.

I don't disagree, I just find interesting that it appears many backers feel the same way as you, but have received no suggestion or assurance from Pandasaurus that this is indeed the case (the exclusivity of the meeples, that is)?

I really hope they are exclusive to kickstarter backers as there should be some reward at helping something get off the ground so to speak. Its also one of the reason that I am supporting the game (and there has to be a decent nuymber of people like myself) - mainly because I had never heard of nor played the game before and only came across it because of the KS campaign - I thought it looked like it could be a cool game, and getting some extra goodies for pledging some $ to the project was a big part of why I chose to, otherwise, yes I would feel a bit slighted if they were made standard to anyone that purchased the game.

What about those that bought the first editions? Wasn't it their enthusiasm and voices that prompted the Kickstarter campaign?

If it weren't for them, the possibility for even owning this game was slim. Previous owners should have the stretch goals available for purchase outside of Kickstarter....kind of like a thank you.

However, that brings up the problem...how do you really verify who owns the game? Soooo...why not just make it available for purchase if it turns a profit? Profit = good, no?

Because that's the only source offering them as of now? It's well within Pandasaurus's rights to offer the upgrade kit exclusively through kickstarter.

I think you missed part of the conversation. It's not a discussion about Pandasaurus' rights to limit availability. It's about whether or not they will choose to.

There are concerns about the exclusivity of the meeples.

Some (if not most) would rather see the stretch rewards only be available to KS backers...more or less citing the reason, "Exclusives would be nice since I helped fund the project."

I fall on the other side of the spectrum and could care less about exclusives and wouldn't mind if the stretch rewards were made available through retail outlets, providing Pandasaurus and retailers more revenue.

Then there's also the bit about who's really the catalyst for the reprint...is it the KS backers or the original owners?

Because that's the only source offering them as of now? It's well within Pandasaurus's rights to offer the upgrade kit exclusively through kickstarter.

I think you missed part of the conversation. It's not a discussion about Pandasaurus' rights to limit availability. It's about whether or not they will choose to.

There are concerns about the exclusivity of the meeples.

Some (if not most) would rather see the stretch rewards only be available to KS backers...more or less citing the reason, "Exclusives would be nice since I helped fund the project."

I fall on the other side of the spectrum and could care less about exclusives and wouldn't mind if the stretch rewards were made available through retail outlets, providing Pandasaurus and retailers more revenue.

Then there's also the bit about who's really the catalyst for the reprint...is it the KS backers or the original owners?

I'm glad I refreshed before I responded, because you've edited your post!

I'm prefacing this by saying what I type might be a more emotional response than logical one.

The people that own the first two printings certainly are partly responsible for getting this game noticed to be sure. However, without Pandasaurus's KS campaing they would still have the game, but the people backing the game would not have it (most likely). People who go into a FLGS later this year would not be able to buy it. So in some sense I think that KS backers are the catalyst for getting this game a much wider release, and as such are being rewarded justly (the stretch goals).

You bring up a valid point about selling the upgrade kit later to generate revenue, and I think that's probably what I would want to see happen.

Where we may differ is what function the upgrade kit would serve. I think that if OLGS are going to sell Tammany for less than $50 (at the above mentioned discount of $30-35) then it would be very nice as a backer to see that be the BASE game without all the stretch rewards. Then if people wanted the upgrade kit, they could purchase them for the $20, putting their fully pimped-out version in the same price range as those of us that kickstarted (and thus enabled such a purchase in the first place).

has logged in to BGG regularly during this discussion, but has avoided weighing in on this subject, leads me to suspect Pandasaurus either hasn't decided what action to take here with regards to the exclusivity of the meeples, or actually has decided and doesn't want to risk presenting faithful Kickstarter backers with a dose of buyers remorse.

Yeah, sorry about the edit. I thought I could eliminate a lot of the words and still get the message across.

Our views align in regards to the upgrade kit. I wouldn't mind if the base game was to be sold at the MSRP (or less for OLGS) and the upgrade kit as a separate purchase. However, I think some backers would rather not have the meeples available to ANYONE besides KS backers. This is what I don't agree with.

I think the definition of catalyst is where we differ, but it doesn't quite relate to the discussion. I still feel the first/second edition owners are the catalyst, which leads to the requests to get this game reprinted...this then turns into the KS campaign. Essentially, the event has already begun BEFORE the backers have come into play.

Now, I will say the backers are the heart of the reprint...but, definitely not the catalyst. If they (the backers) feel they should be rewarded, then the first and second edition owners should as well. This is where I think exclusivity shouldn't be pursued. The KS backers are rewarded with FREE upgraded meeples...that's your reward, not exclusive meeples. The original owners are rewarded with what? An opportunity to pay for meeples? Not really a reward in my eyes. Why not let the original owners purchase the upgrade kit from other retailers (perhaps at a better price)?

I should note, I own a 2nd edition copy and am planning on buying an upgrade kit to help support the project.

Yeah, sorry about the edit. I thought I could eliminate a lot of the words and still get the message across.

Our views align in regards to the upgrade kit. I wouldn't mind if the base game was to be sold at the MSRP (or less for OLGS) and the upgrade kit as a separate purchase. However, I think some backers would rather not have the meeples available to ANYONE besides KS backers. This is what I don't agree with.

I think the definition of catalyst is where we differ, but it doesn't quite relate to the discussion. I still feel the first/second edition owners are the catalyst, which leads to the requests to get this game reprinted...this then turns into the KS campaign. Essentially, the event has already begun BEFORE the backers have come into play.

Now, I will say the backers are the heart of the reprint...but, definitely not the catalyst. If they (the backers) feel they should be rewarded, then the first and second edition owners should as well. This is where I think exclusivity shouldn't be pursued. The KS backers are rewarded with FREE upgraded meeples...that's your reward, not exclusive meeples. The original owners are rewarded with what? An opportunity to pay for meeples? Not really a reward in my eyes. Why not let the original owners purchase the upgrade kit from other retailers (perhaps at a better price)?

I should note, I own a 2nd edition copy and am planning on buying an upgrade kit to help support the project.

And this is why civil debate rocks- it turns out we pretty much agree! If I used the word exclusive before it was, in hindsight, in error. I don't think the upgrade should be exclusive to KS, but it being a free bonus with the game should be KS exclusive.

Thanks for typing slowly so that I understood you, even if it took me awhile!