Honestly, probably spears en mass with archers/siege weaponry for grounding them. If we look at historical accounts, swords seem to be good but I'd hate to have to get close enough to one to deal with that.

Realistically, the dragon isn't going to land to let you fight it, it's going to be strafing you with flame from the air.

So... You basically need a ballista. Powerful crossbows might be able to do some damage if fired when it was swooping, but that's risky as hell.

Honestly, the only reason people fight dragons with weapons is that's how it works in movies and stories most of the time. The dragon lands so you have a chance to stab/slash/shoot it rather than just murdering you all from the skies. If you're within weapon range of a dragon, you've already abandoned any sense of 'realism' that you can apply to, y'know, a fucking dragon.

But if you meant more medieval weaponry, ballistae and early firearms could do good. Melee combat with a dragon would be suicide, although if the dragon was small enough, spears and pikes could work if there are lots of warriors to combat the dragon. Usually dragon scales are tough, so aiming at locations protected by them wouldn't do much. Soft or fragile locations like wings should be the first target, so that the dragon's mobility advantage would be removed.Bows and crossbows: don't see them working unless they are extremely strong and shot en masse, or unless shots are aimed at vulnerable locations like the wings I mentioned.

So, anything that has reach and/or has the potential to punch through armour.

>>52804071An oversized bear trap hidden under grass in a sheep paddock. The bear trap is tied a huge boulder buried 10 ft down. The sheep aren't heavy enough to trigger the trap. When the dragon comes to feed, it gets maimed and trapped. Then slay it with a bolt from pic related hidden in the barn.

Well, it depends on the effective range of fire breath, which does admittedly vary a lot. Still, even at the extreme limits of what a dragons flaming breath can do, they still need to swoop or hover at relatively close range. Although dropping rocks is a fair point.

>>52804071You don't fight a dragon that has taken flight.You ambush the beast while it sleeps, as heroic tradition demands.Use big, rending axes, or swords if you have to be more heroic. Halberds and pollaxes are good too.FUCK ITS WINGS.Then it becomes a fair fight against a wurm, nothing we haven't already done hundreds of times.

>>52804071The 'classic' D&D method is indirect-fire siege weapons like catapults or trebuchets lobbing bundles of rocks around en masse, but a volley from ballistae should be good too. The intention is more to chase them off and be more trouble than it's worth for the dragon to deal with.Plus at the same time that those defensive siege weapons were an assumption for a castle to have, there was also a fair chance that there would be a retinue of mid-level knights mounted on griffins or rocs.

On top of that, they might be expected to petition the aid of a Cleric stronghold, the masters of which likely being served by high level fighters and hippogriffs. On top of their powerful spellcasting this makes them a reliable ally indeed.

>>52804071You guessed right. Spears, pikes, and lances are the best type of weapons for dragons. The low surface area makes spears and the like better at getting through a dragon's scales, and any large enough creature will be killed more quickly by poking holes in its internal organs than hacking at it or bludgeoning it.

Comprehensive trials in Dwarf Fortress's arena mode indicate that pikes are the best weapons for dragon slaying. I mean, the dragon still wins regardless like 95% of the time, but pike users tend to die slightly less often. I don't know any simulations that are more "realistic" than DF for this sort of thing, so that's probably the best answer you're going to get.

Simple, an anti aircraft gun you idiots. But since you probably want medieval weapons i'd say a Bow and Arrow, because good luck trying to hit something thats flying and breathes fire with a melee weapon.

>>52804071The closest things we have to dragons IRL are crocodiles and whales. Thing is, dragons can fly, breathe fire and have really tough armor. So, you'd need to take an approach similar to whaling or hunting crocodiles, just with those other factors in mind.

Depending on who's giving the rendition, dragon fire is either hot enough to melt stone or cool enough to hide from behind a shield. That's a lot of variance, but we'll assume it's somewhere in between; hot enough to set rope, dry logs, etc. on fire and heat metal paneling through. So, for adequate protection, you'll want to be shielded by something substantial and hard to set on fire. Soaking wet chamois and wet wool laid thick over a wooden frame might work pretty well, if you're using siege engines to get right up close to the thing.

Next, you'll want to tire it out. If a dragon doesn't like its chances of losing, there's a good chance it will fly away; to minimize that factor, you'll need to disable its wings and encumber it. If it tries to get close to bite past your fireproof armor, have the engine's crew stab its wings with long pikes; while you do that, position ballistas and launch harpoons into its hide. They don't need to hurt it, they just need to strike deep enough to anchor themselves. The bolts could be shaped like Roman pilum, with a long flexible metal tip that warps on impact and impedes armor. For even better results, try to get above the dragon (get it under a cliff, for instance) and drop harpoons with weighted chains on it. That will get the son of a bitch good and tired.

Now, you just run the thing ragged. Assuming the dragon isn't sentient (or maybe even if it is), it will likely panic and try to escape. Chase it on horseback, harassing it from a safe distance with slings or guns, while it exhausts itself trying to take off.

The final stage of a dragon hunt would inevitably be the most dangerous, because at this point you will have a cornered, desperate animal. As in whaling, the kill is the time when people are most likely to die, so you'll need some brave men (who really want that reward money) to finish the thing off.

Again, the weapon of choice here is the pike, as long as possible. If we assume that a dragon that's out of breath will have a harder time breathing fire, you'll have a good window to attack.

First, immobilize the neck and head with weighted nets, ropes, and what have you. As soon as you do that, your boys need to hit a soft spot, like an eye socket or the throat. For better control, you can get harpoons attached to ropes, and really hook him in. All of this will need to be done before the animal can muster up the strength to incinerate half your men with another gust of fire.

>>52804071Nah. Just get a good sword and a shitload of mushrooms, climb up on it, and spam Gouge over the heart until it dies. Opportunism and Adhesion augments are helpful, as is a Deadly Gouge ring. Pump Periapts to taste.

>>52812746So long as it doesn't flame you this probably is the best way to do it. Nothing quite as armor piercing as 2600lbs of horse, man, and armor moving at over 20 mph concentrated into a small point.

>>52804071Realistically speaking the best way to kill a Dragon is to use Greek Fire. Shit doesn't go out, and just because a dragon breathes fire (likely involving a complex system involving a highly potent gas stored in an air bladder with some kind of sparking device).

Shit you could possibly make a Dragon explode with Greek Fire if you ignited the gas inside the body.

>>52813477Which is retarded because they are still made largely of water, which can be brought boil. Even if their scales somehow contained a special compound that made them fire-resistant you could still just fry the entire dragon with a hot enough flame. Or target the vulnerable areas such as the nose, mouth, and eyes. Or just smoke it to death with carbon monoxide, splashing some of that wonderful jelly onto the Dragon's maw so it inhales smoke until it asphyxiates.

>>52813569>Reset is a meme skillOnly if you have no idea how to play a dagger class.

Even moreso in the MMO version of the game, where learning how to Reset properly is mandatory for Seeker to even be playable past level 50 because Capcom is lazy as hell when it comes to class balance.

>>52804071This brings up a question I've wanted to ask my players for awhile.

"The beast is 20 times your size and you BARELY manage to stab 5 inches of blade into his thick hide......would a sword going a quarter of an inch into you chest do that much damage? "

Seriously, it's like someone coming at you with a box-cutter on the shallowest depth setting. I'm sure it'll kill you from blood loss with a dozen or two.....or FIVE cuts but unless they get the eyes or something you're not really going down easily from that. And god help you if the creature is even bigger.....

You're fighting a flying alligator with toothpicks and legoman swords.

If you insist upon using old-fashioned stuff, I imagine using one of those saber-rapier looking things bullfighters use could do the trick. Matadors are probably the closest thing to dragon slayers in the modern world. Crossbows might work too if you aimed for the face.

>>52813735Be interesting in your descriptions. A rogue with a dagger doesn't hit the dragon's thick scaly chest.He stilettos the dragon's foreleg joint. A paladin's great sword doesn't bang off of it's defensive horns, it flays open the monster's neck. Super-powered people with magic toys do not just bang things over the head bro

>>52814144I get that, but I'm gonna count super vital areas as critical hit fodder and you'd basically need a crit to kill someone with a toothpick in less than a few dozen stabs. Magic can level the playing field, certainly, but a normal longsword should probably do jack shit most of the time beyond some bleeding.

I guess that's what DT is for? It's just hard to go with in the fluff sometimes.

>>52814240Change the idea of critical areas a bit. Eyes, jaw, guts, groin, major arteries are still crit areas. But soft tissue areas should be your normal hits. Think about a decent hit on a human, the thigh. It hurts like hell, compromises balance, & it feels significant but still like it's not gonna drop the enemy. So when the party attacks a human boss, most decent attacks will hit decent soft tissue targets. On a dragon, it has four legs so hurting the joints won't feel like you are slowing it down as much as if you stilettoed a humans elbow. Neck & wing shots are also good. Pounding the neck & tenderizing it til you can cut it off goes a long way to build immersion

>>52814621That's.......legitimate advice. Stop that at once or I will have you fucking banned from the board you monster.

On a more serious note, how do the players hit those vital areas? Even on all fours hitting a good sized dragon in the neck is gonna be tough if he's keeping it up a good height. Should I really be require the players do some advanced research and study of the giant creatures to learn the placement of vital points and structures in their bodies? Maybe encouraging them to try to climb the creature Shadow of the Colossus style?

Fuck, next time my players fight a dragon I'm gonna make that shit either amazing or the most brutal TPK they've ever seen.

>>52814840I'm just say people are really good at hunting, if you break it down there should be no way people on a sailing ship could catch and kill an animal as large as the ship that could dive for 10's of minutes and swim as fast or faster than the ship, but people did it.

Killing a dragon wouldn't be the same as waiting in a blind for an afternoon to kill a deer. It would involve a similar process of tracking the dragon's movement pattern and strategically wounding it. It'd probably take a few weeks or even months to kill a dragon, but once people found a good strategy they'd apply it for as long as it's possible. At that point the only way for dragon's to feasibly survive would be to band together and impose treaties or go to war.

So anything man height is game, mostly legs. Tail & wings can be a good thing to just have soak some hits if you feel like variety. The way I picture it a dragon is either is a low slung position with the neck & head in crazy Dwarven axe distance, or at least coming down & snapping most of the time. Not all dragons sit pretty & aloof while fighting.

Knowledge Arcana should cover dragon anatomy. Maybe give them a bonus or incentive if they make a good roll. Depending on system a misc. +2 or in 5e give them advantage for one strike anytime during the fight.

Clever uses of traps/equipment is the downfall of any creature dealing with man. Snares or beartraps to wound it's feet. Harpoons to ground it. Goad hooks to pin it. Chains & locks, elementally treated. A head covering to blind it, once pinned by a dozen strong men with goad hooks. Or just a big unwieldy axe to kill it once pinned.

But seriously, no one ever brings up hooks on a stick for dealing with shit when it's mankind's goto solution to big things with teeth.

>>52815300Hooks are tough for something the size of a 747, to be fair, and I tend to guy by "Circle and nuke" strategy for my dragons and flying creatures, honestly, but that leaves traps as the only and probably ultimate answer.

>>52815046I'm also, again, assuming the dragon or beast is at least as intelligent as the players. If we're talking geopolitics at that point I'd also go with the cliche'd dragon standpoint of "FUCK THAT OTHER SCALY CUNT" and have them be fairly independent, if only to avoid overwhelming the world with flying magical nuclear bombers with an superiority complex.

So you'd imagine in this scenario that dragons get slowly outpaced and maneuvered by superior numbers of humanoids?

>>52804071the iconic image of a knight using a shield to block dragon fire is idiotic. the heat would still burn you. I would say the best option is to have a line of ballista on swivel mounts lay in wait outside it's lair to ambush it. maybe have men with pikes if it lands to stab it to death before it can slaughter them all. cover themselves in mud to act as flame retardant.

>>52815515It'd probably be teams of people watching the dragon as it flies to determine where it nests, hunts, and the size of its territory, and then setting an ambush there for it.

The first problem would be the dragons mobility. The best weapon would be harpoons with tethers (wire rope or chain preferably) tied down to heavy weights. This way it would be easier to hit with heavy weapons and less able to fight back. If the group hunting the dragon had detailed knowledge of its territory and movement they may even use many light weights so that the dragon is likely to try and take off again. This attempt to fly off, whether successful or not, would help tire the dragon out. If it is able to take off the light weights still attached would sap it's stamina far faster in the air than on the ground.

If/when the dragon flies off then you'd want teams watching throughout it's territory tracking it (1 or 2 teams per 10-50 square miles or so) so they could harry it when it lands.

This endeavor would require a large group (300 people to form multiple teams. It would require a great deal of preplanning (weeks or months) and probably take a week to actually pull off. For equipment you'd need a great deal of chain, weights (rocks in the field or manmade), harpoons, and pack animals to carry gear up.

Now dragons are smart, but the first few times this happened they'd be caught off guard. Once the dragonslaying economy has been established their most obvious countermeasures would be preventative in nature. Then you'd see other hunting strategies start. Hunters would destroy the entrance to a liar to try and flush it to another favorable location, Construct dummy camps to serve as bait, hide siege weaponry to ambush it along well mapped flight paths, try to analyze it's horde and use artifacts as bait, enlist burglars to steal from the horde to prompt an enraged attack.

In all, dragons would be difficult prey, but by no means beyond human ability to hunt.

>>52804071Fight them with food.Feed them, make it a habit. Make them become dependent upon you to feed them.Then start to feed them richer food.Fry everything.Kill them with heart failure.Enjoy korean bbq afterward.

Siege weapons to fire nets and ball-and-chain bolas. Swarms of crossbow bolts or sheafs of ballista spears might work for creating small holes in the wing membranes, which will quickly become large holes if the dragon tries to keep flying.

Spears or axes/morningstars I'd say, both for the reach of the spear and also for the potential to pierce tough scales (which I'm assuming your dragon has) on both. Or maybe maces if you have a real big dick and think you can crush its skull without getting roasted.

Polearms are the best melee weapons on an open field in practically 100% of cases, and longbows are the best pre-harquebus sidearm. I believe this would still apply even when fighting a dragon. Crossbows are really overrated.

BUT, with that said, the heavy harquebus (also known as the musket) was designed to punch through steel plate. If you still consider early firearms primitive enough to fit in your setting, that has all the advantages of a spear but better. And of course if you're fighting the dragon in a tight space you'd want a shortsword or dagger, preferably one designed for thrusting (again assuming it has tough scales), as with any other enemy.

Being in armor helps a lot. By the point a fire blast is bad enough that you're getting seriously hurt through the plates, chain, and padding, an unarmored person would resemble a piece of badly burned toast.

Also the shield would help a lot. Putting anything between your body and a source of fire is going to make it less deadly.

We had a lot of luck with a fast-setting fast-curing glue based on vulcanized rubber containing lead beads fired out of cannons. We considered some sort of mhtril-nets with hooks but we assumed it'd be able to get clear of that by shapeshifting with any of the tons of shapeshifting spells that turns you into something small and flying.Once we grounded it we proceeded with cannon barrages from ordinary semi-portable cannons (The big lead-gunk ones were too heavy to move fast enough to the drop zone) Mounted lancers on fiendish warhorses (for the fire resistance) with asbestos padded full plates (inspiration was fireman suits) delivered the coup de grace.

Worked like a charm.

I only hope we never go up against a blue dragon, those fuckers can conjure up sandstorms in an enormous area and bury through sand like water. Would be impossible to find or catch the fucker.

Maybe ironically some electricity based AOE when it tries to burrow to trap it in a nexus of fulgurite? I have no clue.

To further expand;A tactic we were considering was simply trying to deal with and betray the dragon. Contrary to popular belief i dont believe a dragon would be well prepared for that sort of attack.

Dragons are big, unstoppable, and direct, like a volcano or earthquake. Of course they're also extremely intelligent, but despite all of this they're still solitary animals, key word being solitary. The social backstabbery and manipulation humans are so good at are traits heavily selected for in a -social pack environment-. We monkeys have been backstabbing and lying to eachother to get the juiciest fruit or hottest mate for literal millions of years, we're pretty good at it by now. Dragons would just -take- what they wanted from inferior creatures. I think a good ol' manipulative betrayal or false flag attack framing something that might just kill the dragon, would maybe blindside a dragon?

>>52814840>>Did any of those actually die to human involvement?Kind of. If you want to extinct a really dangerous species you either kill off their young or go after their food source. 1v1 or even mob tactics against a sabertooth tiger is a bad plan. Out competing and starving them is a better one.

>be high level>beat the shit out of dragon with flat of blade>get a new pet/mount

Fuck, I remember one guy in our party doing that twice, but I'm not sure what game it was... Middle Earth rpg, maybe?

That and the time I tried to use a dominate potion in D&D on an army of goblin and the DM said he would make it work if I rolled a 20 and I did are what took his sanity away and made him became a CoC Keeper full time.

>>52815601>I would say the best option is to have a line of ballista on swivel mounts lay in wait outside it's lair to ambush it.This. Dragons are big creatures with though hides. Even if a bow's arrow or crossbow's bolt can reach it, it most likely lacks the force to penetrate its scales. A ballista, pretty much a gigantic crossbow, solves that problem.

I imagine dragonslaying parties would consist of a core of multiple of these ballistae (adapted to be mobile and easily transported, maybe they're on some sort of platform with wheels?) and maybe some supporting crossbowmen that mostly focus on puncturing the beast's wings in order to decrease their (aerial) mobility and make them easier targets to hit for the ballistae.

>>52816336>There are no dragons in France because the Frenchmen ate all of their liversDeepest lore

>>52813477>>52813578>it's retarded that a creature that has an organ in its body designed to bathe the flesh around its mouth in fire and that flies over material it has set on fire would adapt to be resistant to fire??? ???

And while the metal armour conducts heat, a metal plate will block radiative and convective heat transfer completely. Odds are you won't have the metal sitting right on skin either, instead you'll have a few layers of textile in between. Those conduct poorly.

You should also keep time in mind, because heat transfer takes time. That hot summer day makes you overheat eventually. It won't do a whole lot in the first minute. Cranking up the heat reduces the time necessary, but not anywhere near proportionally. Try baking a cake at twice the temperature for half the time, and you'll scorch the surface (armour) while the inside will barely heat up at all. For a very brief, very hot blast, such as from a bomb or electric arcing, a thin nomex hood can provide very significant protection, despite just being a thin piece of fabric.

It isn't a question of you being invulnerable. If that was what you're after then no armour ever is going to help you. But it'll make you less vulnerable. And that can help a whole fucking lot.

>>52822467>As opposed to the absence, which conducts perfectly.Actually not true. The issue here is that your skin is a poor conductor, and the flame is presumably not something that is on you for an extended period but instead something that is blasted against you several times in relatively short bursts (as exhalations), which at least we seem to be on the same page on. Since the metal is a good conductor, it will absorb that heat much more rapidly than skin would, and it would then transmit that heat to your skin over an extended period, actually severely burning you when the flames might merely cover your skin in first and second degree burns and not cook you good and deep.

Of course, that's actually a moot point because, as you pointed out, you don't wear metal armour directly on your skin, you have several layers of padding underneath. Assuming it is stifled enough not to catch fire (so under more than just a layer of chainmail) you're probably good to go, because fabric is generally a VERY poor conductor. Gauntlets might be an exception since there is less of a barrier between the metal and your hands, and, for that matter, assuming the dragon is of the "strong enough to crush or rend metal with ease" variety, there would be only downsides to wearing metal armour over leather which would also be even better for avoiding being cooked alive.

not him btw, and when I first skimmed your post I missed where you mentioned the padding worn underneath armour and was going to chime in with that.

>>52818979The problem is that intelligent dragons live thousands of years, and tend to shapeshift and live among humans for a few hundred. So while it'd work on a young dragon, an older dragon would have long since learned human deceit and trickery.

>>52804071There is a series of books thats essentially the napoleonic wars, but with dragons. They either use other dragons, modified cannons that act as AA guns, or board the dragon in flight like marines would board a ship and attempt to capture the captain.