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"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

If nothing else I like to think of the service we do your wife. At least when you're online braying at us it gives that poor bedevilled woman a few hours peace.

MtD

It has been suggested that this post has crossed a line which should not be crossed.

This is indeed correct. I should not have dragged Borezl's wife into this rather tacky exchange. It has lowered the tone of this thread and detracted from what has been a particularly uplifting and edifying discourse.

Easy dude.. you're the one who's taking those pills, and I don't see myself entering a water drinking contest like, er, ever.

Actually before clicking that link I thought it could be one of those stories about the nutty water fluoridation conspiracy.

Don't you see the equivalence? You show me a story about some nut who overdosed on supplements (guy was taking steroids as well - just to illustrate the character involved), I show you another story about an idiot who died drinking too much water. Both stories are about one individual doing harm to their body by taking too much of what is otherwise reasonable susbtance.Moreover - I have made it abundantly clear that I support early start of HAART and that supplements should only be used before one's CD4 count drops to a level that warrants starting it.Therefore I find your example spurious and ill-fitting.

Don't you see the equivalence? You show me a story about some nut who overdosed on supplements (guy was taking steroids as well - just to illustrate the character involved), I show you another story about an idiot who died drinking too much water. Both stories are about one individual doing harm to their body by taking too much of what is otherwise reasonable susbtance.Moreover - I have made it abundantly clear that I support early start of HAART and that supplements should only be used before one's CD4 count drops to a level that warrants starting it.Therefore I find your example spurious and ill-fitting.

So here's the dealio.

You've elected to take the pills, which makes you just like the rest of us. Your viral load will soon hit undetectable and your CD4 count will rise in a commensurate fashion.

These things cannot be helped.

Nobody cares what you think about early treatment or the administration of decoction of milk-thistle as an alternative to HAART or whatever.

Why not be a nice chap, put the stick down and step away from the dead equine, eh?

You've elected to take the pills, which makes you just like the rest of us. Your viral load will soon hit undetectable and your CD4 count will rise in a commensurate fashion.

These things cannot be helped.

Nobody cares what you think about early treatment or the administration of decoction of milk-thistle as an alternative to HAART or whatever.

Why not be a nice chap, put the stick down and step away from the dead equine, eh?

MtD

I guess my nuanced position was too nuanced for some to bear. Just to sum up:

1) I'm all for early start of HAART and believe it to be the only way to defeat HIV2) I fully allow that certain individuals may want to wait before until their CD4 drops to a certain level before starting HAART3) I believe that it is in their interest to research what "supplements" - minerals/vitamins/herbals/anti-herpes drugs - they can take in order to prolong the time frame until their CD4 drop to the level that warrants HAART. Studies have found certain substances to be beneficial to HIV+ individuals.4) I put together a list of such substances using the information found on this forum. I started using this mix myself for a short period, over which my VL dropped. I accept that it could happen independent from one another.

I really don't see what is so contentious about my position and why this continues to generate debate. I am putting the gun down and backing away...