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By: David Steiner

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Feedback on eBay certainly has taken a few left turns since Pierre's initial concept that allowed trading partners to rate each other. In probably the most dramatic deviation, Sellers will no longer be allowed to leave Negative or Neutral feedback for Buyers. There are some other changes, which can be found here: http://pages.ebay.com/services/forum/new.html but this is the most interesting paragraph:

What changes are being made to the eBay Feedback system?

There are five key elements to the new Feedback system being introduced in the first half of 2008:

1. Beginning in February, buyers and sellers will be able to earn up to one Feedback per week from the same trading partner. Today, members may only affect each other's Feedback scores one time, regardless of the number of transactions between the parties. This change will both encourage repeat transactions and reward good service. 2. Sellers will no longer be able to leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. This change will occur in May, 2008. 3. Removal of negative and neutral Feedback left by members who are suspended or who fail to respond to the Unpaid Item Process (UPI). 4. Positive Feedback percentage will be based on the past 12 months of Feedback, rather than lifetime, since it is most indicative of the seller's recent performance. 5. Restrictions on when Feedback can be left: * Buyers must wait three days before leaving negative or neutral Feedback * Instead of 90 days, members will be able to leave Feedback for 60 days

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We'll be speaking with John Donohoe later today, so if you have any specific questions, post them here before noon, and we'll try to incorporate the best ones in our interview.

Call 1-877-222-0856 and leave a 60 second message about what you think of these changes.

by: Alex

Fri Feb 1 12:13:03 2008

Posting this again so we can work on this for the petition.

So lets start at the top with their wonderful new FB system. Rebuttals/Pros/Cons follow each point.

1. Beginning in February, buyers and sellers will be able to earn up to one Feedback per week from the same trading partner. Today, members may only affect each other's Feedback scores one time, regardless of the number of transactions between the parties. This change will both encourage repeat transactions and reward good service.

Rebuttal: I think we should get more than 1 FB counted if it is multiple purchases. but why not just count the total positves, neutrals and negative to be factored in to your FB score? Many buyers buy multiple items at once to get a s/h discount. So does the buyer have to wait a week to leave each FB for the multiples or do they have to occur a week apart? Repeat customers occur because they like your products and service not because of an eBay FB system.

Pros: More positive FB to your account depending on when they buy and when the give FB. Not really clear on this. A typical eBay standard.

Cons: Bad buyers may now leave you multiple NEGATIVES THAT CAN SEVERLY HARM YOUR REPUTATION AND ACCOUNT STANDING EVEN IF THEY DO NOT PAY.

2. Sellers will no longer be able to leave negative or neutral Feedback for buyers. This change will occur in May, 2008.

Rebuttal: This change offers no value to Sellers and in all likelyhood will backfire on buyers who want positive FB.

Pros: None that we can see. Unless you are a malicious Buyer or an unscrupulous Seller.

Cons: Creating an unbalanced Feedback system will only create problems for both Buyers, Sellers and eBay. Buyers will not care to work out solutions with sellers when they are clearly in the wrong. Buyers will just leave Negatives for any reason whatsoever valid or not. Sellers do not have any options to defend themselves other than leaving a POSITIVE for a buyer who does not believe they got there monies worth. As these issue will affect Sellers performance ratings, most Power Sellers will not realize their discounts. It will also affect customer service as sellers will start getting negatives and stop trying to help customers work out problems as they know that even if they do these buyers can leave negatives with impunity. If the customer has a problem they will be told to just file a claim knowing they will probably recieve a negative anyway. There would be no point in resolution. Sellers FB scores will be affected and will not look as good and safe to buyers causing less sales. Sellers will then list less or move off site causing decreased revenue to eBay and its shareholders.

3. Removal of negative and neutral Feedback left by members who are suspended or who fail to respond to the Unpaid Item Process (UPI).

Rebuttal: Dont know why this is even in here as a change as this is already the policy but a flawed one.

Pros: Great if the deadbeat bidder doesnt respond.

Cons: Terrible. A buyer who responds with "I am not going to pay" or even just a string of "??????" gets to leave a Seller a negative. Doesnt seem fair or balanced to me.

4. Positive Feedback percentage will be based on the past 12 months of Feedback, rather than lifetime, since it is most indicative of the seller's recent performance.

Rebuttal: Notice how in this statement it says Seller's performance. Positvie FB will be pointless for Buyers as it will all have to be positive. Are negatives for buyers going to go away also under this change? So the bad buyer with multiple buying accounts will have the old ones look good again? I think this needs to be cleared up also.

Pros: Great if you have a bunch of old negatives.

Cons: Just wait after 12 months of the new FB system when buyers can leave tons of negatives for any little whim. eBay will use that criteria 12 months from now to yank your Power Seller privelidges and maybe even your selling ability all together. Once again causing less listings and less revenue for eBay. And also less choices for the eBay buying community.

5. Restrictions on when Feedback can be left: * Buyers must wait three days before leaving negative or neutral Feedback * Instead of 90 days, members will be able to leave Feedback for 60 days

Rebuttal: Another pointless change that addresses no real issue. 3 days to leave a negative or neutral. Unless you overnight a package none of your customers are ever going to get your products for evaluation in order to make a fair Feedback. 60 days vs 90 days change does nothing as most FB is left within 30 days anyway.

Pros: Those malicious buyers will have a mandatory 3 day wait before they give that negative.

Cons: Addresses no real issues and does nothing to make eBay a safer place to buy or sell.

This is just the start for the petition regarding the New FB changes. i will start work on the Fees next. Please add/subtract change edit whatever so that we can make this the best petition.

http://www.free-press-release.com/news/200802/1201886300.html

by: amodernguy

As a long time seller on ebay I see the feedback change as a major change to ebay's terms of service and an abandonment of ebay's stated community values.

I wrote an open letter to ebay regarding ths on my blog today:

http://amodernguy.wordpress.com/2008/02/01/an-open-letter-to-ebay/

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Alex

Fri Feb 1 12:30:48 2008

I have been surfing the ebay buyers blogs and such and some of these very low-volume buyers are licking their chops in anticipation of this change. They are flat out stating they cant wait to tell sellers off who have screwed them in the past.

What I do not understand is that eBay will not look at the history of an item or feedback related to that item when it comes to see if a buyer is actually telling the truth.

I dont think if a seller ships using delivery confirmation and the usps shows it has been delivered but the customer claims it was not should be able to get a negative. For what? It can not even be contested as a paypal claim! why should the buyer be allowed to do this!

How about a product that you produce which is brand new and the same. you produce and sell 100's of these products with glowing feedback. You get 1 or 2 negatives stating they didnt like or bad product etc. what about the 200 customers that say it was fantastic and a great bargain, etc? shouldnt that override the 2 bad customers whose expectations were unreal to begin with?

What about buyers who in a negative say shipping too high! If s/h charges are stated in the lsiting and the product is fully described and you ship per the listing what is the issue? If the customer does not like what they are being charged for s/h, DONT BUY! They should not have the right to complain later!

eBay is doing nothing to address these issues.

by: The Big Picture

Fri Feb 1 13:10:41 2008

Contacting eBay now is not going to change their decision. Ebay's response to this outrage/backlash speaks volumes on what they really think of us.

The only way to get substantial media coverage is to hit the streets with picket signs. During the boycott of 2/18 - 2/25, people need to rally and VISUALLY show their displeasure. A boycott will not be sufficient enough.

Here's a question for everyone on this blog: What will you do on Feb 26 (the day after the boycott ends) if eBay does nothing?

I'm not so sure that an end date for the boycott is such a good idea. Ebay can certainly ride the storm, especially if they know it will only be temporary. What if the boycott had no end? It would start Feb 18 and go on indefinitely until eBay finally ''gets the message.''

I'm just afraid everyone will go back to listing on the 26th, and eBay will once again become the bloated cash cow that its always been. I'm sure eBay is laughing all the way to the bank on this one.

If you can get out and protest during the boycott, here is the address:

eBay Headquarters:

eBay Inc.2145 Hamilton AvenueSan Jose, California 95125

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Alex

Fri Feb 1 13:25:27 2008

We also may want to create a list of scab sellers who do not boycott and tell them that we are going to have this list posted for all to see. There are many buyers who are union and will also not like that they did not participate or care. We need to remind eBay that the vast majority of sellers are also buyers.

by: Dave

Fri Feb 1 13:37:31 2008

My activity is about evenly split between buying and selling on Ebay. My experience has been that both side have unscrupulous representatives. Sellers leave me feedback almost 100% of the time, while buyers rarely do. The only strike against me came from a slimy car dealer who retaliated against my honesty with a negative after I left a well-deserved neutral rating. Since everyone here seems to be concerned with only their own experience, I added mine. Surely some mechanism needs to be in place to identify dangerous buyers or sellers. Anyone who can't see through a numerical rating by doing a little research should consider themselves negligent. The value of one party's feedback can usually be determined with some effort and treated accordingly.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Alex

Fri Feb 1 13:40:30 2008

I think that after the 25th we should cmpare listing numbers and stock prices. I also think that we should all just have listings in our stores. eBay doesnt give those any kind of exposure anyway and their auctions listing and search results will be very low.

eBays Bill Cobb made a statement a couple of years ago about store listings costing eBay to not even break even on storage space is also an absurdity. Even if there are 1000 store items it takes up what 100k each in "space" wow less than 100mb. so it would take 5000 stores with this many items to fill a 500gb harddrive that costs maybe $250.00 and if those 5000 stores are paying $15 a month plus listing and fvf how is that eBay is not breaking even on them?

It just shows a constant pattern of lies and deception by eBay!

by: dmitri

Fri Feb 1 13:52:13 2008

Scab sellers? Gimme a break! First of all, unions are a useless institution that is no longer needed in today's economic environment, since all they do is enforce mediocrity and increase the cost of doing business (and I speak from experience, having witnessed such things as a union carpenter sitting on his lazy butt all day drinking coffee because there was no union "laborer" to carry boards 10 feet from the pile to his saw - and he was getting $40/hr for that).

Second, not all eBay sellers will be aware of the boycott, so to target them in any way is patently unfair. Many don't have the time or interest to follow forums and such. They're busy running their businesses, after all.

Third, not all sellers agree with you! I don't. Last time I checked, this was a free country. I personally think the feedback changes are minor in comparison to the fee hikes and I think the feedback change will also serve to get rid of a few of those PS's who do nothing but unload cheap crap here while giving lousy customer service.

And no, I don't work for eBay and I'm no longer a shareholder. So, have some common sense people!

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Alex

Fri Feb 1 13:57:34 2008

I dont really have a huge problem with negatives as I dont believe the customer cares that much in reality. Just check out the largest sellers on eBay and they have some of the lowest DSR's and huge negative FB numbers for them every month. People still buy from them in massive amounts.

The part a have a huge problem with is eBay abitrarily being able to suspend someones selling priviledges because of a current bunch of negatives that a seller might not have any control over.

You always have to think of the "what ifs"

What if you mail 20 packages on the same day and there is a flood, tornado, hurrican, earthquake, fire, theft, whatever it may be and those packages are gone forever. Will you even know that there is a problem with your packages. No! Not until the buyers start complaining and then calling you a liar about sending them. 1 negative stating as such will unleash the floodgates and seem like all of a sudden you are a scam seller who just pocketed all of the buyers money is not sending their products.

Think it can't happen? Don't bet on it.

There are many other scenarios where I can see sellers getiing unwarranted negative FB and no matter what eBay says that they will investigate (we know from the past that is a bunch of BS) us sellers will get punished.

The writing is on the wall. Start listing on every other auction site now, email every customer you have ever had and give them the links to those sites. As all your good customers know you and trust you it will make it easier for them to buy from you on those other sites.

This is what you need to do and I am doing now. I only have 1000 products to list on each of these sites so I should be done by 2009! But hey, you gotta start somewhere!

For those that truly depend on eBay as an income, this is YOUR WAKE UP CALL!

by: Alex

Dmitri:

You have a right to your opinion and I will defend your right to that opinion.

That being said, I have the right ot totally 100% disagree with that opinion in the context you put it in.

We sellers who are opposed to eBays changes (fees and FB) should not be put into the context of "lazy union workers who sit on their butts all day".

If you had actually read any of the earlier posts we are opposed to leaving negatives to sellers who do not participate as we believe that they may not know, etc. I have also said that we should be contacting those sellers who have new listing s on the 18th and telling them about it. After that there should not be any new listings for them on the 19th thru 25th. If they have mnade the decision that they dont care on these issues then that is there right. It is also our right ot create a list of those sellers who did not particpate. You seem to forget that us sellers are also buyers. I know I will not ever purchase from those sellers ever and will do my best to spread the word about them. I would also say that not "all" sellers should be put on that list. Only power sellers with stores maybe. That way we do not affect the little seller who is the one who is most likely to get hard with these new changes.

As you do not seem to care I am sure you will probably be on the list.

If you had read the majority of the posts here, the new FB changes will probably not affect me as much as many of the other sellers who sell the "used" or "reconditioned" goods.

Please get off your pedestal and understand that we all have a stake in this. Whether you are a Big or Small seller these new Fees and FB changes are just not right.

by: Ming the Merciless

Fri Feb 1 14:29:16 2008

A few quick but I think CRUCIAL points. Please read and reflect on my words. I've worked in upper management in corporate America, and I know how they think and strategize. I am also more than passingly familiar with some areas of the law.

CONSIDER:

1. The ebay plants here are obvious, and it should be abundantly clear to all the caliber of people they employee to troll seller boards. Is it any wonder sellers have to cope with the problems they do when it's individuals like these trolls we have to deal with? Managers hire people they're comfortable with, and the lower echelon corporate culture is merely a reflection of the upper management ebay cultuure that teaches that sellers are mere cr*p under the feet of the exalted leaders such as The Donna Hoe.

2. While well intentioned, sending a press release to some press release internet site is a waste of time. Media pays attention to press releases of established groups and organizations and then only some of the time.

3. Complaints should be directed where they'll do the most good AND where they'll be the most embarassing and disruptive for ebay. Your snail mails and emails should be directed not to ebay because that's a waste of time but the California Attorney General, the attorney general of your state, and the Better Bureau in San Jose. Every individual complaint a seller files must be responded to by ebay.

4. Before ebay made these changes, they consulted their legal department. Legal departments are staffed with lawyers who are subject, believe it or not, to a code of ethics. Find out their names and file ethics complaints against them with the California Supreme Court for approving all the sleazy business practices ebay engages in. Keep their legal department tied up in knots.

A STRATEGY FOR SUCCESS:

I want to accomplish the same things as all of you do, but I want to it CORRECTLY so that the results we want are realized and become permanent. EBAY RETALIATION IS REAL. You've already seen how vitriolic and/or out of touch their trolls are. While ebay may not officially approve of the following, they do absolutely nothing to prevent it nor do they discipline employees who engage in the following retaliatory practices. If you boycott without the protection of a class action lawsuit, you run a very high risk of a handful of vicious, angry ebay employees doing the following just because someone in California or Salt Lake City decides they don't like you:

3. They'll make sure your listings will be at the END of the search lists regardless of the DSR and feedback ratings.

4. If you take part in a less than well planned selling boycott, ebay employees will be directed or will take it upon themselves to go through your listings with a fine tooth comb and use any pretext whatsoever to end your listings. They will make your life on ebay a living hell with bogus VERO violation claims, key word spamming claims, etc.

5. Getting their friends in the IT world to blacklist or otherwise attack your web site either aggressively or passsively by making it disappear from search engines.

Folks, ALL of these things and many more have allegedly happened to ebay sellers who've tried to tangle with ebay with no legal protections! I use the term allegedly because these allegations haven't been proven in court...yet.

Ebay dictates where lawsuits can be filed. While I question the legality of such a policy which is in the ever changing user agreement, lawsuits must be filed in ebay's little backyard playground.

The following law firm specializes in class action suits, is located near ebay, and has successfully represented ebay sellers in at least one past class action suit against ebay:

http://www.fazmiclaw.comhttp://www.fazmiclaw.com/classactions.html

Attorney Jeffrey L. Fazio handled their most recent class action against ebay. This case must not be "settled" without total victory. Any settlement can NOT be "sealed;" ebay must be held publicly accountable.

Before any boycotts take place, a great deal of thought needs to be given about either pre empting and responding to ebay retaliation. Sellers need the legal protection of a FILED class action lawsuit that contains a stern warning from the court that ebay must not retaliate against sellers for failing to list either jointly or individually at either random or specific times and that no ebay employee can direct or engage in any sort of seller harassment during the life of the lawsuit.

These and a boat load of other reasons are why sellers need to the protection of a class action lawsuit before embarking on actions that may well result in the capital punishment execution of your ebay business and beyond by ebay.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Alex

Fri Feb 1 14:30:58 2008

Lets also talk again about the ability of a DEADBEAT BUYER who doesnt pay but responds to the UID.

They can still leave a seller NEGATIVE FEEDBACK!

This isnt new as this has been going on for quite some time

I have wrote and called eBay many times regarding this. I have told them how ridiculous this is and they do nothing about it to close this stupid loophole. If they dont pay they should not get to leave anything. they are not a customer as no transaction has occurred. Seems like common sense doesnt it? Not to eBay.

eBay contends that there may be other factors involved with why they didnt pay. What are those other factors? Shipping? If the listing had flat rate shipping amount then that should not factor in. What other factors could there be? They lost their job? Bid on an item when they were drunk? How is this a sellers fault and why should we be punished for these issues?

I have taked and written to eBay for over 2 years regarding this and they still dont get it.

by: Alex

Ming the Merciless:

Will these lawyers take this on without retainer? Pro-bono? etc.

http://www.fazmiclaw.comhttp://www.fazmiclaw.com/classactions.html

How do we start?

You seem to be the most knowledgable on this. can you contact them and find out?

Also, are ex eBay employees who have I am sure signed confidentiality agreement bound by them if some of the action they have done were a violation of the law. Wouldn't it also come under a whistleblower act of some sort. We need them to step forward.

by: Fulltime Ebay seller

Fri Feb 1 14:38:52 2008

I found this video on youtub. Maybe I will make my own as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gy3P0nndyZo

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: dmitri

Fri Feb 1 14:39:11 2008

Alex,I wasn't comparing people here to union workers, I was merely protesting the "scab"/union reference to those of us who choose not to participate in the boycott. ALso, be aware that you might be opening yourself up to legal action by sellers (slander/libel - I'm no lawyer, so I don't know which it is) by posting any kind of list like that. Then there's grandma, who's selling her Depression glass and knows little of these happenings but need those few extra dollars to pay for her oil to heat the house.

I'm all for expressing one's opinion, but others deserve that same privilege without being harassed. People may have a lot of reasons for not participating in a boycott, so I don't think it's right for anyone to judge them.

I'm not participating because I'm not bothered by the feedback change and because boycotts have always failed in the past. eBay is determined to follow this course of action, and nothing a little guy like me does will make a difference. I may not have any listings anyway, since I'm a part-time seller and haven't listed since before Christmas.

I apologize if I've offended any union supporters. My experiences with unions have been uniformly negative, so that colors my judgement of them. Maybe others find them positive, who knows. We're all entitled to our opinions.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Fulltime Ebay seller

Fri Feb 1 14:42:03 2008

We cannot lose this fight. Ebay expects we will just go away. We must keep the pressure on for a long time to make them hear us.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Shar

Fri Feb 1 14:47:08 2008

I am another old timer on Ebay and have been a major advocate, until the past couple of years.

It has become more and more difficult to contact them.

The past year since the changes not only in the fees but in the software it has been like a major toothache.

The feedback from Ebay to sellers has been, your complaining instead of trying.

One board had about a thousand comments/questions without one response from Ebay staff.

The selling fees increased and many stopped selling, this time, not only are the fees going up, but the stage is set to smash the sellers.

I think Ebay has become a toxic waste dump.

I also have been looking around for another auction / store site and find that ePier has continued to hang in there, for a number of years and have recently begun to spend some time and money to really become competitive.

They are certainly seller friendly and price is right.No listing fee, picture storage, both auctions and store. No relisting fee, minimal closing costs

Give them a check and just think!We may actually have a great place to go!

ePier is an awesome auction site.

Lets just move there and be done with eBay.

If ePier gets 1000 new sellers, watch how many buyers move there.

Upcoming Changes to Feedback on eBay

by: Shar

Fri Feb 1 14:52:28 2008

ePier link

check em out~!!

http://www.epier.com/default.asp

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