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The debate for THE best fighter ("enforcer" is such a lame word) begins - and ends - with John Ferguson.

/thread.

In an era when you had to have talent - AND be able to "take care of" yourself ... he was the most feared man on skates - and for good reason! (Plus, he could light the lamp)...win-win. There hasn't been a player remotely like him since.

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The debate for THE best fighter ("enforcer" is such a lame word) begins - and ends - with John Ferguson.

/thread.

Hardly. Your hero worship doesn't make it so. That was from an era so long ago it doesn't translate.

Over the years there have been many, many true goons - starting with Dave Schultz and Tiger Williams, of course. Probert had some offensive ability and was clearly the dominant fighter of the era. He could easily cross the line into goonery, but in my mind he wasn't nearly as dirty as guys like Schultz and Tiger.

But since Antti changed the subject - Cam Neely. He fought the top of the line goons and was an elite goal scorer. Not just "had some offensive talent", he was an offensive powerhouse. As far as feared fighter, Dave Semenko, Gretzky's bodygaurd. Not even the other top of the line goons messed with him.

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Of course Williams, Schultz, and Probert belong at the top of the list.

Honorable mentions: Domi, McSorley, Nilan, Rob Ray, Nilan, and despite a short career John Kordic.

I would take ANY of the above to kick John Ferguson's butt.

Obviously John Ferguson was before my time and was probably one of the first enforcers - at 6' 178 lbs he would stand no chance against any of the heavies today. Boogaard would've crushed him like a grape (providing Ferguson would be dumb enough to try).

Worst: Brad Staubitz or Zack Stortini. A paper bag could probably beat these two more often than not.

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wendel clark was like domi, tinordi was tuff but didn't fight too much. jack carlson, willie plett anyone? yes i'm a homer and proud of it. probert in his prime was awesome. crowder? wouldn't it have been fun to see scott ledoux in a northstars uniform? teehee!

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wendel clark was like domi, tinordi was tuff but didn't fight too much. jack carlson, willie plett anyone? yes i'm a homer and proud of it. probert in his prime was awesome. crowder? wouldn't it have been fun to see scott ledoux in a northstars uniform? teehee!

What, no love for Ogie Oglethorpe?

Bob Probert to me was the ideal tough guy; tough as nails, big, but amazingly good hands too. Sad that his life ended so soon. McSorely wasn't too bad either; decent enough player that you could use him on a regular shift. Sad thing is he'll always be remembered for hitting Donald Brashear in the head with his stick.

How about Dale Hunter? He was an ornery ba$tard on the ice but he was also pretty good offensively. Willi Plett was terrific, and Basil McRae was no slouch either. Another good pure fighter was Tony Twist. Jack Carlson was a beast. Tiger Williams and Dave 'the Hammer' Schultz were very fierce. Dave Semenko, yikes. I think few people remember it was the North Stars who drafted Semenko.

Worst Goons? Darcy Hordichuk. A goon who turtles?? That never belongs in the same sentence.

Best agitator IMO was Esa Tikkanen and he wasn't that bad of a hockey player either.

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For a service man ... Which I respect to no end ... You certainly have thin skin. The guys you mentioned are "enforcers" ... I.e. guys who had no purpose on a roster save for protecting perceived stars. What a joke.

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For a service man ... Which I respect to no end ... You certainly have thin skin. The guys you mentioned are "enforcers" ... I.e. guys who had no purpose on a roster save for protecting perceived stars. What a joke.

Guess I'm not really surprised.

Yawn

Goon, enforcer, on ice policeman what is the difference? Wayne Gretzky was a perceived star? Riiight. I forgot he didn't play for the Canadiens so therefore he must've been overrated.

I don't think Fargo is being thin skinned at all, he's noting you have a strong bias towards John Ferguson mainly because of who he played for. In his day he may have been the best tough guy (goon, enforcer, etc) of his day but do I think he'd stand up well against Dave 'the Hammer' Schultz or Tiger Williams? No. There are lots of guys that I think Ferguson would've got rocked against which were guys that he was lucky he never had to deal with. The Hammer could score, was it his best attribute no...but he could do more than just fight.

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Personally, Domi is my favorite of all time. guy had some balls to go up against the biggest of em at his size. And his attitude was hilarious too.

Who was the greatest enforcer? I don't care. Its all opinions, and you know what the old saying is, that they are like something else everyone has.

My favorite enforcer was Tie Domi. My favorite moment was him knocking Samuelsson put with a beautifully placed sucker punch. It was almost as awesome as seeing Umberger shaking on the ice, eyes rolled back with drool running out the corners of his mouth.

Old time hockey. Where guys got the tar beat out of them and never whined like little beacthes about feeling dizzy and/or nauseous the next day.

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Goon, enforcer, on ice policeman what is the difference? Wayne Gretzky was a perceived star? Riiight. I forgot he didn't play for the Canadiens so therefore he must've been overrated.

I don't think Fargo is being thin skinned at all, he's noting you have a strong bias towards John Ferguson mainly because of who he played for. In his day he may have been the best tough guy (goon, enforcer, etc) of his day but do I think he'd stand up well against Dave 'the Hammer' Schultz or Tiger Williams? No. There are lots of guys that I think Ferguson would've got rocked against which were guys that he was lucky he never had to deal with. The Hammer could score, was it his best attribute no...but he could do more than just fight.

Nice try - you know as well as I do - I don't let my having a favourite team get in the way of "best ever" discussions/debates. Those are always based on having seen said players play - with my own two eyes (which is why I don't include the Rocket etc).

Ferguson was the best. Schultz, most likely, second....but Tiger Williams? Please. Top 10 or 12 perhaps.

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You certainly have thin skin. The guys you mentioned are "enforcers" ... I.e. guys who had no purpose on a roster save for protecting perceived stars. What a joke.

Guess I'm not really surprised.

Yawn

Not thin skin, lack of tact and a blunt, some would say rude, writing style.

As far as the guys I mentioned being "enforcers", Cam Neely was way, way more than just a devastating fighter, he was an eltie goal scorer. And another tough guy who was not strictly an "Enforcer" and didn't fight that often, but destroyed the heavyweight goons when he did - Clark Gillies from the NYI Dynasty. And another vivcious fighter who evolved from a goon into a Scorer - Rick Tocchet. And another one, one old time Stars fans adored - Al Secord. Secord scored a bunch of goals AND stood toe to toe with anyone, even a big time fighter like Willi Plett. Wendell Clark has already been mentioned but he was really a middle weight who was fearless and would take on anyone. Remember when McSorley devastated Doug "Killer" Gilmour years ago with an open ice check and Clark went right after him, no hesitation? McSorely had about 4" and 40 lbs on Clark but that didn't matter. McSorely beat him up but not before Clark gave him a huge black eye.

My point - throw out your name from prehistoric days and claim end of thread and all you'll get is laughed at, there are a lot of players who could play and fight. All of the guys I name would skate circles around and easily beat the snot out of Ferguson, if they could have met in their primes. The game and players have evolved tremendously since those ancient days. Make the claim that Ferguson was the most feared - for his time - but don't dismiss and disrespect other guys just because he's your hero.

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Not thin skin, lack of tact and a blunt, some would say rude, writing style.

As far as the guys I mentioned being "enforcers", Cam Neely was way, way more than just a devastating fighter, he was an eltie goal scorer. And another tough guy who was not strictly an "Enforcer" and didn't fight that often, but destroyed the heavyweight goons when he did - Clark Gillies from the NYI Dynasty. And another vivcious fighter who evolved from a goon into a Scorer - Rick Tocchet. And another one, one old time Stars fans adored - Al Secord. Secord scored a bunch of goals AND stood toe to toe with anyone, even a big time fighter like Willi Plett. Wendell Clark has already been mentioned but he was really a middle weight who was fearless and would take on anyone. Remember when McSorley devastated Doug "Killer" Gilmour years ago with an open ice check and Clark went right after him, no hesitation? McSorely had about 4" and 40 lbs on Clark but that didn't matter. McSorely beat him up but not before Clark gave him a huge black eye.

My point - throw out your name from prehistoric days and claim end of thread and all you'll get is laughed at, there are a lot of players who could play and fight. All of the guys I name would skate circles around and easily beat the snot out of Ferguson, if they could have met in their primes. The game and players have evolved tremendously since those ancient days. Make the claim that Ferguson was the most feared - for his time - but don't dismiss and disrespect other guys just because he's your hero.

My hero?? When did he become "my hero" ??

You and your pole-polishing partner would do well to make your points and try not to put words into other people's mouths.

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Nice try - you know as well as I do - I don't let my having a favourite team get in the way of "best ever" discussions/debates. Those are always based on having seen said players play - with my own two eyes (which is why I don't include the Rocket etc).

Ferguson was the best. Schultz, most likely, second....but Tiger Williams? Please. Top 10 or 12 perhaps.

Bull to the first paragraph.

In answer to the second part - I was answering the question "who was the biggest goon" not who was the best fighter. Schultz and Tiger are at the top of the list because they were dirty, dirty players - i.e. goons of the first degree. Schultz was big but lots of regular old time players beat him up. As far as fighting, Nick Fotiu of the Rags was ten times the fighter as either of those two, but when it comes to dirty, dangerous play - Schultz and Tiger.

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In answer to the second part - I was answering the question "who was the biggest goon" not who was the best fighter. Schultz and Tiger are at the top of the list because they were dirty, dirty players - i.e. goons of the first degree. Schultz was big but lots of regular old time players beat him up. As far as fighting, Nick Fotiu of the Rags was ten times the fighter as either of those two, but when it comes to dirty, dangerous play - Schultz and Tiger.

Did you see Fotiu at the Alumni game when he sort of toyed at the idea of dropping the gloves against a Flyer (I can't remember which one) after he ran into the goaltender. It would've been funny and sad at the same time if he did.

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Did you see Fotiu at the Alumni game when he sort of toyed at the idea of dropping the gloves against a Flyer (I can't remember which one) after he ran into the goaltender. It would've been funny and sad at the same time if he did.

Nope, didn't catch that, but I bet Nick would have beaten the snot out of whoever it was!

I'm at work but whenever I start thinking about the old fighters I think of going to Youtube. I don't know if I could find it, but I remember Clark Gillies beating the snot out of Schultz once. I also think Larry Robinson, who was never known as a Fighter, took on Schultz and beat him up.