After several years away from making music and my gear stacked away I'm about to get
started again.
I have several MIDI keyboards, synth modules, a sampler, drum
machines and rack effects etc. and still use an Atari ST with Notator SL for sequencing
(don't laugh! I find it a very capable, stable system with solid MIDI timing, so I see no
reason to go DAW all the way). I also like physical gear with knobs, so I'm not ready to
sell all my synths/synth modules and replace it with plugins. Still, I can see that some
gear such as effects and my sampler could be better off replaced with DAW plugins. But I
have no experience with the latter and having read discussions on hardware vs. software
where people state that hardware often gives a better sound I'm not sure what to do.

Anyway, I never had anything for recording back then (except cassette tape) and
need to start from scratch in that area. My Mac Pro 5.1. (2010) should be more than good
enough to handle the task, and the first thing I probably need is a good sound-card.
A rack mountable one would be practical, but I'm not sure how many channels I'd need
when not going all plugin. Would I be best off creating a virtual studio much like a
traditional 16 or 24 track analog recording studio (meaning a 16 or 24 input sound card)
since I'll be using external synths, or would I be just as well off with lesser inputs,
but more recording takes, adding synths to a new track, or is the normal way simply to
record anything sequenced "live" in one take to two tracks (stereo) meaning a cheap dual
input sound card?

if you have a workflow where you want to
sequence via MIDI all your hardware, and mix with a hardware mixer, and then record the
stereo mix to the computer, then you only need a couple of inputs. If you want to record
all twelve stereo hardware synths to their own tracks, then you'll need 24 inputs. If you
don't need to record them all at once, then you can get away with only a handful of inputs
and only record one or two devices to audio at once.

It's driven by how you
intend to work really. I think you need to think through the way you typically work, and
how that will translate into the more recent world and how to intergrate
recording/computers into your setup. You might wish to carry on working in the old way you
used to, or you want want to look at some more modern ways of taking advantage on of
modern tech, and organise your new environment along this.

So the most
important thing is to get a handle on how you want to work, and start the discussion there
until you formulate what seems like a workable plan of attack regarding the gear you
need...

Re: Back to making music -what gear to get?
[Re: desmond]
#1072657 - 31/10/13 04:12 PM

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Quote desmond: you want want to
look at some more modern ways of taking advantage on of modern tech, and organise your new
environment along this.

In the latest SoS review of Kontakt 5, Nick Magnus points out that it is now more
feasible than ever to produce high-quality tracks entirely within Kontakt. That's just one
sample player. To get an idea of what's happening since the days of cassete tape ,
download Reaper.Take a deep breath - all u may need is your mac and a good audio
interface .

Yeah, get Logic, which is dead cheap these days and stuffed full of everything you need,
and a soundcard with a built in MIDI interface so you can used any old keyboard you have
to play the logic instruments, and just play with it for a month or two. I would forget
multiple recording inputs for now, stereo, or 4-6 is more than enough, and don't fret to
much about which one. Do some research in reliability and compatibility and go by that.

Just because you do this does not mean anything in your cupboard has to go,
nothing is mutually exclusive.

However, once you see how much DAW's have come
on, you will find yourself questioning why you need to have everything set up 'for real'
as before. Are you really going to use your sampler when you can have a large library
inside Logic ready to sequence, and a choice of much cheaper sample sets from the
internet? How much outboard do you have, can you have compression and eq on every
channel, and as much FX as you want, not just on auxiliaries?

Eventually you
will probably find that some things that have character you might keep, but will soon see
the attraction of a full DAW. I have kept a few analog synths, my S950, and a DX7, oh
and a quadraverb just for playing away from the computer. The few times I do records
external stuff is just for character and 'spice' - but every year what I actually need
gets less and less, and now with tape emulators I rarely use my mastering machine -

In a way it is sad - but you don't have to get rid of redundant things, no one is
forcing you to sit there with nothing but a mouse, but full DAWs and sound-cards are so
cheap, you may as well dive in - and if you decide you still want to do it all live from
the atari you can - and you will have acquired a fantastic digital multitrack and editing
suite.

Thanks for all comments and suggestions.Having played around a little with the Reaper demo and the free Kontakt Player I must say I'm both impressed and overwhelmed. Too many
options, endless menu items and lots and lots of mouse-clicking to get anywhere. I've
briefly tested the Logic demo in the past and had the same impression back then, but
understand that this is the price you pay for an all-in-one virtual recording studio/audio
editor/synthesizers/samplers/MIDI sequencer system. I probably need to spend some time
getting used to it all.

I think I will end up with a compromise, keeping most
of my hardware synths but perhaps replacing the sampler, digital drum machines (after
sampling them) and some of my hardware effects units with what's available in the DAW. I
can certainly see how practical a software-sampler could be with the absence of messing
around with floppy disks, limited memory, setting up patches etc. as long as there's no
additional latency compared to a hardware sampler (this goes especially for
drums/percussion). Whatever lets me make more music and less loading/saving,
organizing/setting things up. At the same time I do appreciate hardware synths with "hands
on" real knobs and buttons, and I'd save the computer's CPU from additional loads.

Since my main plan is to sync the DAW from Notator on the Atari as well as playing
samples in the DAW via MIDI from the Atari I'm basically looking at a digital recording
studio along with a software-sampler. Is there any less complex software I could look into
for that?

Regarding audio interfaces I think a compromise is due
there as well. 2 inputs would limit my creativity with so much external gear (say I want
to record my TR-808's individual outputs in order to allow for different EQ and effects
I'd have to spend ages to record two new tracks at a time). 8 inputs might be a good
compromise. I would also need MIDI (for syncing from the Atari and for allowing a MIDI
keyboard/the Atari ST to play samples from the DAW). In another thread I read that most
soundcards these days are USB only and don't have MIDI -is this true?And buying
older sound cards with say Firewire/multiple inputs and MIDI can give OS compatibility
issues as there are no drivers to be had for the latest OSX. Any advice on this?I
assume Firewire would be the fastest/most efficient method for transferring both audio and
MIDI, and my Mac Pro has both Firewire and room for PCI express cards if that's a better
option (but then again I wouldn't be able to use a laptop if I should need that at some
stage, instead of the Mac Pro). I'm not too fond of tabletop gear which seems so popular
these days. 19" rack devices are stackable and can save a lot of space, so I'll be going
with that if I can.

I'm not sure how I should set everything up (again, I need
to spend some time planning it all), but as far as MIDI hardware goes my Atari ST is
equipped with multiple MIDI in/out ports and I have a Roland A-880 MIDI patchbay/merger
for routing things. For audio I have a Behringer audio patchbay (24 ins/outs I think) and
a Roland M-480 (48 input) line mixer. Without EQ on each channel I'm left to doing that in
the DAW, so I'm not sure how the mixer would come to use.

OK, lots of
thoughts and questions here, so I'll stop for now, hoping for comments and replies. Something useful apart from reading specs and features for DAW software packages,
soundcards etc. would be more practical "real world" guides where musicians explain their
workflows and from that I could better understand what might suit my needs the best. Any
sites, ebooks/books, videos etc. with that sort of thing available?

Its a difficult question to answer really. The attachment to the Atari ST really
complicates things. As much as it helps that you know how it works, the difficulty in
setting up all the midi and audio channels in your recording DAW and syncing it all up
might be more trouble than learning a new DAW from scratch.

Presumably you
are making electronic music (from your synth collection and setup). If this is the case I
would strongly recommend trying Ableton Live. There is a free 30 day trial. While it will
seem incredibly complex at first, there are some very good tutorials on youtube which will
help you get used to it. If you have some time off, say a week, give them a go and see if
you can get on with it.

For recording synths Ableton is really great, its
just so easy to use and comes with some pretty good drum machines and samplers. The
Kontakt sampler is still far superior in terms of flexibility and (to a lesser extent)
sound quality but its a lot harder to use.

You're wanting to make things simple for yourself, but you're actually in danger of making
life really difficult.

If you're determined to try to sync up two
computer-based systems and try to add a mixer into the fray there's a good chance you're
going to end up hopelessly bogged down, confused and frustrated. As it is you're already
questioning the role of the mixer, and I'd say ditch it - it is only going to make for
complications and compromise.

My advice is let go of the old, embrace the new
and just knuckle down with it until it begins to make sense. All you need is a computer,
an audio interface, a DAW (Cockos Reaper is free to start) and the patience to learn how
it works. If it was *that* difficult none of us would be here, would we?!

Quote The Elf:You're wanting to make things simple for
yourself, but you're actually in danger of making life really difficult.

If
you're determined to try to sync up two computer-based systems and try to add a mixer into
the fray there's a good chance you're going to end up hopelessly bogged down, confused and
frustrated. As it is you're already questioning the role of the mixer, and I'd say ditch
it - it is only going to make for complications and compromise.

My advice is
let go of the old, embrace the new and just knuckle down with it until it begins to make
sense. All you need is a computer, an audio interface, a DAW (Cockos Reaper is free to
start) and the patience to learn how it works.