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I can see Landorus and Tornadus moving up to Ubers. Landorus might be able to become a Dialga counter, while Tornadus can do it's job better in Ubers, supporting the team with Tailwind. As for Thundurus, it should now have a ridiculous Special attack stat, even rivaling its main competitor, Darkrai.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any of these to Ubers just yet just because of a stat increase. Thundurus is already Ubers, so not much can really change for it unless the BW2 metagame shifts to an extent that causes him to be retested for OU. Tornadus's upgrades are going to be primarily defenses and speed, and when's the last time we banned a Pokemon in OU for being too defensive? The only way I can see it going is if it gains its new stats and still keeps high SpA and Atk stats. Landorus might be a bigger possibilty if the change in Atk is significant and its other stats don't take too much of a hit, but there's really no way of knowing until the new forms are released.

if you want to count Freeze Shock and Ice Burn, considering they weren't in BW, then no, we might not have to wait

But how are we aware of them in the first place? They are in the game, it's just that no pokemon can learn them as of now.

If there was some other move, why wouldn't we know about that as well? Look at smogon, they've got the whole RNG figured out. Wouldn't they know if there was some other move in the game that no one knew about?

If there was some other move, why wouldn't we know about that as well? Look at smogon, they've got the whole RNG figured out. Wouldn't they know if there was some other move in the game that no one knew about?

I'm sure someone would've used Metronome with it or something if it was in BW. Like Rotom and its formes, Kyurem is probably going to change form or something when you trade it.

Originally Posted by jesusfreak94

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss any of these to Ubers just yet just because of a stat increase.

Rampardos was thought to leap straight to Ubers in 4th gen, but he shot straight down to NU instead.

I'm sure someone would've used Metronome with it or something if it was in BW. Like Rotom and its formes, Kyurem is probably going to change form or something when you trade it.

Then where did the knowledge of those moves come from in the first place? If you provide me the link or something, then I'd probably be convinced. Oh, and I've never heard of metronome using secret sword either(though it is possible it happened).

But we can't tell if it will only learn that move when it's in that form. Perhaps that move would help trigger the new form or something. Or maybe it'll be like Skymin and keep it's new moves when it reverts back to it's original form. We have no idea what's going to happen.

Secret Sword can be used with Metronome...but Relic Song can't. Yet, B/W still has a relic song tutor. Metronome is not enough proof that these attacks don't exist.

Furthering my research, I've found someone claim that the knowledge it came from extracting information from the game cartridges. This source was unreliable, so I didn't leave that as my only argument. Check out these videos.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNMqkRuMdOwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_How...D99EAD7FDEC8C7
And I even found someone who wasn't using an emulator. They claimed it happened to their shiny, level 100 Kyurem without any hacks(yeah right), but it is proof that the attacks can be hacked onto the actual game(the first two videos were emulators).http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTfK0WmEPV0
Skip ahead to about 6:55. I've left a little...erm...link(would it be called that?) in my comment to the video.

Three completely different youtube users, two on the an emulator and one of a DS, all have the exact same attack animations. That, I believe, is solid enough proof that Freeze Shock/Ice Burn do, in fact, exist in pokemon Black and White.

....In other words, these new forms aren't getting any brand new attacks. They will only get old ones they may not of been able to learn before.

Depending on how they nerf the other stats that the genies have is going to affect how well they'll do competitively. Of course, if they don't compensate the other stats, Thundurus will just get more of a reason for being banned, Landorus will become a more dangerous Scarfer (barring Gliscor and other defensive walls constantly...well, walling him), and Tornadus (with his current movepool) won't get much in return, as he doesn't have that many support moves. However, Tornadus could become a viable support Pokemon (what with Prankster and all) depending on the move tutors they have in B2W2. Now, if the stats are nerfed, it could definitely affect the metagame, as Thundurus/Landorus would likely get Speed and Defense drops, possibly bringing Thundurus Sacred Beast Form into OU, with Landorus SBF staying with his other form. Attack drops on Torndus SBF would just solidify him more into the position of a support Pokemon. So much hangs on what is yet to be told to really be able to accurately judge where they will fall into the BW metagame.

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Depending on how they nerf the other stats that the genies have is going to affect how well they'll do competitively. Of course, if they don't compensate the other stats, Thundurus will just get more of a reason for being banned, Landorus will become a more dangerous Scarfer (barring Gliscor and other defensive walls constantly...well, walling him), and Tornadus (with his current movepool) won't get much in return, as he doesn't have that many support moves. However, Tornadus could become a viable support Pokemon (what with Prankster and all) depending on the move tutors they have in B2W2. Now, if the stats are nerfed, it could definitely affect the metagame, as Thundurus/Landorus would likely get Speed and Defense drops, possibly bringing Thundurus Sacred Beast Form into OU, with Landorus SBF staying with his other form. Attack drops on Torndus SBF would just solidify him more into the position of a support Pokemon. So much hangs on what is yet to be told to really be able to accurately judge where they will fall into the BW metagame.

I'm think what all will happen is just changing some stats around.

Kind of like Gallade vs Gardevior. All they did was switch the attacking stats.

Depending on how they nerf the other stats that the genies have is going to affect how well they'll do competitively. Of course, if they don't compensate the other stats, Thundurus will just get more of a reason for being banned, Landorus will become a more dangerous Scarfer (barring Gliscor and other defensive walls constantly...well, walling him), and Tornadus (with his current movepool) won't get much in return, as he doesn't have that many support moves. However, Tornadus could become a viable support Pokemon (what with Prankster and all) depending on the move tutors they have in B2W2. Now, if the stats are nerfed, it could definitely affect the metagame, as Thundurus/Landorus would likely get Speed and Defense drops, possibly bringing Thundurus Sacred Beast Form into OU, with Landorus SBF staying with his other form. Attack drops on Torndus SBF would just solidify him more into the position of a support Pokemon. So much hangs on what is yet to be told to really be able to accurately judge where they will fall into the BW metagame.

In the extended trailer Serebii posted today, the alternate formes were thrown out in Dream Balls. I don't think they're going to have Prankster anymore. on top of that, i also believe the Radar will bring a LOT more DW pokemon into the game.

Well as thatjeremykid pointed out, the alternate form was thrown out in a dream ball meaning that they will likely have their dw abilities. It really sucks for all 3 of them since Thunderus really liked prankster; Defiant will be pretty useless on it and tornadus. Also, Landorus gets its coveted sheer force ability but it will likely lose stats from special attack to gain for attack, and since sheer force benefits from mostly special moves, it won't be very good. The outlook seems grim.

Witness the truly awesome power of my claimed Gyarados.

Gyarados used Epic Awesomeness!
It's super effective!
The foe lost OVER 9000% of its health!

Originally Posted by Mister Zero

"I moved my Monopoly piece forward two squares when nobody was looking, but I didn't use an action replay so it's totally okay"

Well as thatjeremykid pointed out, the alternate form was thrown out in a dream ball meaning that they will likely have their dw abilities. It really sucks for all 3 of them since Thunderus really liked prankster; Defiant will be pretty useless on it and tornadus. Also, Landorus gets its coveted sheer force ability but it will likely lose stats from special attack to gain for attack, and since sheer force benefits from mostly special moves, it won't be very good. The outlook seems grim.

They could get different abilities for their Sacred Beast form. Serene Grace would be just great for Tornadus. Confusion with Hurricane? Flinch with Extrasensory?

Well as thatjeremykid pointed out, the alternate form was thrown out in a dream ball meaning that they will likely have their dw abilities. It really sucks for all 3 of them since Thunderus really liked prankster; Defiant will be pretty useless on it and tornadus. Also, Landorus gets its coveted sheer force ability but it will likely lose stats from special attack to gain for attack, and since sheer force benefits from mostly special moves, it won't be very good. The outlook seems grim.

Well, on a recent trailer by Nintendo, it shows the Landorus Sacred Beast form using Earth Power. It could gain SAtk as well as Atk. Also, if they can switch between forms, then Dream World Normal Landorus might be good, mainly on non-sandstorm teams. It's unlikely they'll be able to switch though, but we can hope for a raise in both Atk and SAtk.

Also, even if it does loose SAtk, it will still gain Atk, and with Sheer Force Stone Edge's power is raised, plus, Life Orb recoil becomes non-existent, meaning feigning a choice set is so much easier.

Another positive of the forms is that they might cause Thundurus to move down to OU (or at least it's Sacred Beast form). That would be a massive improvement for OU.

Also, even if it does loose SAtk, it will still gain Atk, and with Sheer Force Stone Edge's power is raised, plus, Life Orb recoil becomes non-existent, meaning feigning a choice set is so much easier.

Well, they showed Braviary using Hyper Beam in one of the early B/W trailers but despite it learning a special move it sucks at it.

Ah, so Rock Slide with Sheer Force boost is basically a move with 100 Power, just like Stone Edge, but just with better accuracy. That's nice, because Stone Edge usually screws me over with its misses more often than not. I also thought Stone Edge would be getting the boost, still making it the superior move. However, I guess I'd be using Rock Slide on any Sheer Force Landorus when it comes out then.

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According to the latest news on the front page, Keldeo may be getting a new forme as well. What are your guys's thoughts on that? Personally, I think Gamefreak is going overboard with the forme idea.

Technically, formes are the only way that GF can introduce 'new' pokemon mid-generation apart from event pokemon. If you don't count Genesect, Arceus or Cherrim, this generation has the same amount of formes as the last: 7.

What the **** are these. Are these Legendary beast spinoffs? I mean, Kyruem formes are already ugly as ****, then they go ahead and do this. What. The. ****.

I'll post with some competitive input at some point, but I have to comment on these.

They're not that bad, the only one which I dislike is Thundurus. Tornadus looks pretty cool, it's just different which is probably why most people don't like it. I actually thing it's a very regal, powerful-looking thing. Landorus' new forme, although it looks like a puppy at first glance, is actually really cool. As BH said, it's a Manticore. A goddamn Manticore! I've always wanted a Manticore Pokemon!

Hey Serebii, how you doing? Not sure how many of you guys from way back are out there, but just to let you know that I'm back, though I'm not sure how regularly I'll be on. Thanks for everything, and I hope I can continue to enjoy my time here!