News:

Good day, denizens of OC.net! Per our tradition, the forum will shut down for Clean Monday, beginning around 9pm Sunday evening (2/18) and ending around 9pm Monday evening (2/19). In the spirit of the coming Forgiveness Sunday, I ask you to forgive me for the sins I have committed against you. At the end of Great and Holy Week, the Forum will also shut down for Holy Friday and Holy Saturday (times TBA).

The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.

The way Met. Bakhomious guided the boy's hand to a certain ball made it look a bit rigged.And I'm sure that Anba Tawadros was Met. Bakhomious' preferred candidate, since he is his disciple.Conspiracy?!!!

Who knew the Copts could best the RCs for stakes in bingo?

The Apostles cast lots to replace Judas... Cleromancy has been used by the God at least since the times of Moses.

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who can watch the watchmen?"No one is paying attention to your post reports"Why do posters that claim to have me blocked keep sending me pms and responding to my posts? That makes no sense.

And some friendly encouragement given the Armenian Church to canonize some saints who've been waiting for 800 years.

Is there someone you had in mind?

I'm still waiting for an explanation as to what you are referring to.

I think he is referring to the fact that the Armenian Curch has not canonized a new Saint in centuries and that there are many individuals who are worthy of such canonizaton.

« Last Edit: November 07, 2012, 03:51:22 PM by Severian »

Logged

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die [...] These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world." -The Lord Jesus Christ

No longer active on OC.net. Please pray for me and forgive any harm I might have caused by my ignorance and malice. Pls email me, don't send PMs.

I guess I am trying to understand why a person who considers my Church to be schismatic would concern himself with whether any of my Church's members are made saints in the modern era. I know that there are many who are worthy, such as the priest of my grandfather's village, who was doused with kerosene and burned alive during the Genocide. I guess I am trying to figure out why that is a concern of this poster, and why it would be brought up in this thread.

And the "800 years" number is a bit inaccurate. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of St. Gregory of Datev, who reposed in the 1400's.

It was during the Ottoman era that the Church was not able to canonize saints. Now we find ourselves in a different era, and the Church is trying to figure out how to go about reviving the process. It used to be a rather "bottom up" process, rather than the "top down" process that one finds in many modern Churches. Someone would be venerated at the local level, and then as his veneration spread, he would just get added to the calendar. From what I understand, there was no formal process like one finds in the Chalcedonian Churches.

I guess I am trying to understand why a person who considers my Church to be schismatic would concern himself with whether any of my Church's members are made saints in the modern era. I know that there are many who are worthy, such as the priest of my grandfather's village, who was doused with kerosene and burned alive during the Genocide. I guess I am trying to figure out why that is a concern of this poster, and why it would be brought up in this thread.

And the "800 years" number is a bit inaccurate. Off the top of my head, I'm thinking of St. Gregory of Datev, who reposed in the 1400's.

It was during the Ottoman era that the Church was not able to canonize saints. Now we find ourselves in a different era, and the Church is trying to figure out how to go about reviving the process. It used to be a rather "bottom up" process, rather than the "top down" process that one finds in many modern Churches. Someone would be venerated at the local level, and then as his veneration spread, he would just get added to the calendar. From what I understand, there was no formal process like one finds in the Chalcedonian Churches.

What to expect during the serive of the Enthronement of His Holiness Pope Tawadros II of Alexandria:One of the bishops will start the prayer according to the custom, the lections for the 17th of Hathor are read until the Praxis (Acts) and the Synaxarion. Then the priests go out with their censers and the deacons carrying crosses to the Papal residence, where the metropolitans and the bishops are with the one chosen for the patriarchal throne, then the door of the cathedral is locked and the keys are given to one of the archdeacons to stand at the door, waiting for the new Pope when he comes in order to deliver the keys to him.

Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

In this "seating rite", the conventional prayers usually prayed when a canonical Patriarch is chosen from among the monks, last recited in 1959 at the ordination rite of Pope Kyrillos, will be omitted. There is no laying of hands, no descent of the Holy Spirit, no commission by God, and the new Pope will not be consecrated Patriarch of Alexandria. He will be called "Patriarch of St. Mark's Service" (Kerazah). Alexandria will continue to have no bishop.

If the trend of seating bishops as Popes continues in the future, we should adopt the Roman Papal model, in which the Pope is the Supreme head of the Church, and have a bishop for Alexandria. A general bishop will do as well.

May the Lord grant the new Pope many years.

Logged

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

anyone who would like to spend 7 hours profitably can watch our patriarch's enthronement here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDNJV7P5-Qat 2hrs 15mins is the bit where he is prayed over by the other bishops.(if u don't have 7 hours!)

baba tawadros 2nd is not ordained here, as he was already a general bishop. he was chosen from among monks and bishops and has already shown great courage and humility.

the enthronement video also shows very good relations between the coptic church and other churches, especially eastern orthodox.

may the Lord preserve the life of both patriarch theodores for many years and peaceful times.

Many years to the both Orthodox popes of Alexandria! Let God give them strength for these difficult times for Egyptian Christians. I pray that patriarch Tawadros II be this Good Shepherd from the Gospel he has read during the ceremony.

If I'm not mistaken, thank God, there was no any incident (well, except the absence of the president)

Many years to the both Orthodox popes of Alexandria! Let God give them strength for these difficult times for Egyptian Christians. I pray that patriarch Tawadros II be this Good Shepherd from the Gospel he has read during the ceremony.

If I'm not mistaken, thank God, there was no any incident (well, except the absence of the president)

Actually check out 4:50:30 and on. HB Pope Theodorus II the Greek gives his congratulatory speech ending with a gift and an Axios. I must say that is unheard of in the history of our churches. This was an unusual enthronement service. What made it more unusual was the diptych by the ArchChanter Ibrahim Ayad before the reading of the gospel, which included Pope Tawadros, Patriarch Mar Ignatius Zaka, and Pope Theodoros. Never on an official level has this happened before as far as I recall.

Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

hi, dominika; this starts at 4hrs 50 minutes on the link i posted.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHDNJV7P5-Q.it is good that there is a shorter link for those who didn't watch all of it!i actually saw some of this live on the screens at church, but the noise quality was poor.it is clearly a lovely message, but i don't understand too much of it due to my poor arabic and absent greek.patriarch theodore ('roman' orthodox as we call him) mentions the lovely name they both share, gives him a crown / bishops hat, yells axios! and gives him a lovely hug!

Actually check out 4:50:30 and on. HB Pope Theodorus II the Greek gives his congratulatory speech ending with a gift and an Axios. I must say that is unheard of in the history of our churches. This was an unusual enthronement service. What made it more unusual was the diptych by the ArchChanter Ibrahim Ayad before the reading of the gospel, which included Pope Tawadros, Patriarch Mar Ignatius Zaka, and Pope Theodoros. Never on an official level has this happened before as far as I recall.

Awesome. Seeing Pope Theodoros II (EO) lift up the mitre and shout 'Axios', with the Coptic psaltes responding, and then going over to hand it to Pope Theodoros II (OO), it almost felt like the EO were crowning him as their own in a way.

Funny moment: when HG Bishop Paul of Tanta paused before saying the name of the Anglican bishop of Ireland: Bishop Michael Jackson

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father. The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears. His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father. The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears. His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father. The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears. His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father. The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears. His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

The seating arrangement of the Greek HH Pope Theodore II is interesting.

HE Met. Bakhomious got the Coptic HH Pope Theodore II's papacy off to a good start. His Arabic (Classical, that is) was excellent.

Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.A hasty quarrel kindles fire,and urgent strife sheds blood.If you blow on a spark, it will glow;if you spit on it, it will be put out; and both come out of your mouth

This is a letter from HB Pope Theodoros II to HH Pope Tawadros II two weeks earlier when it was known HH Pope Tawadros was chosen for the Papacy. It's a shorter and similar version of the speech he gave at the enthronement ceremony:

We both bear the name “Theodoros II” as an historic draft towards closer understanding for the noble people of Egypt, and we wholeheartedly pray that the Lord will preserve Your Beatitude in continual health and much strength for the benefit of your reasonable flock.

On a serious note, touching moment when HE Metropolitan Bakhomious, who officially ended his own function as locum tenens in his speech says that now we as bishops and metropolitans must return to our dioceses under the orders and authority of HH Pope Tawadros, our father. The spiritual father of His Holiness for decades has pretty much declared his sonship to him, leading the Pope to bawl in tears. His Eminence continued to say that with a tone of boldness that this is the reality of the Coptic Church, that there is no competition, and regardless of age we must respect our new authority.

I must say I have so much respect for His Eminence, a truly righteous and most humble leader.

A better translation provided by someone from Facebook than CYC's subtitles:

Quote

On this blessed day, during which we celebrate the enthronement of our blessed and honored father, His Holiness Pope Tawadros the Second, on behalf of the holy synod of the Coptic Orthodox Church in the world, we present to you the successor of Saint Mark, the thirteenth apostle, the father of fathers, the archpriest and archbishop, Pope Tawadros the Second.

And my beloved, briefly, we remember our father, His Holiness, the reposed, Pope Shenouda III, whose fatherhood we shall not forget, in addition to his heritage, his leadership, his thought, his love, his zeal, and all his virtues, which we have received and shall pass on from generation to generation and unto the end of the ages.

His Holiness Pope Shenouda III, who has passed from among us, has not left us orphans. He prays for us, and has given us his gift, one of his own children, upon whom he had placed his own apostolic hand, our beloved father, His Holiness Pope Abba Tawadros II.

For our church, my beloved, is a mother. She is not barren. She gives birth to generation after generation. And that which we have received from our ancestors and our saints, we pass on to the coming generations with complete honesty.

We have known His Holiness, our beloved father, Pope Tawadros, since his childhood. A tongue is not able to speak of him. In his childhood, he was a pure. In his adolescence, he was spotless and possessing a serving nature. In his monasticism, he was stringent and ascetic. In his episcopacy, he was zealous and revitalizing.

Therefore, looking forward with the eyes of hope, what he shall introduce will not be for the church of Egypt and the Coptic Church only, but also for the whole world. He shall introduce thought, a spirit, and a heritage full of zeal, and love for the church of God, and for Egypt and her people, her Muslims and Christians, her elders and her young, and her imams and her priests. He shall give these things to Egypt.

And we look ahead with the eyes of hope, that in the manner the Lord used him in past years, he shall use him again unto the end of the ages, O our beloved master.

We, on this joyous day, hand the church to His Holiness. And inasmuch as the Lord worked through us in the recent past to take the responsibility of the work [raucous applause and standing ovation by thousands interrupts], through your prayers and fasts, the Lord has done many great things with us until He brought us unto this blessed day.

My beloved, having taken on the responsibility of the church, we return to our diocese reduced in stature under the feet of His Holiness, our beloved father [the newly installed pope is reduced to tears, visibly shaken, as the congregants rise again to their feet and applaud for minutes. The large television screens clearly show the emotions on his face]

I say this from my heart: I shall be a son to him and a servant under his feet. And all of us in the Holy Synod, we believe in spiritual paternity. There is no conflict over authority in our church! [raucous applause]

We are the sons of Saint Mark and the many patriarchs until Pope Shenouda. We have learned humility from them. We learned penitence from them. We learned the service of the washing of feet from them. So our goal is only the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ and His service.

I thank you, my beloved, for your cooperation with me. I thank my fathers, their graces, the metropolitans and bishops, who labored much with us. The many committees who were formed to bring us to this blessed day.

Many of the beloved – the Holy Synod, the lay councils, the endowment department, the committee for papal candidates, the committee for registrants, the committee for appeals, the committee for elections, the lawyers, the scouts – we offer our appreciation and love to all of them. I wish to thank each one by his or her name, but we lack time.

edit: Just realized that the translation was provide for by lacopts.org, by Mark Moussa

« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 03:03:19 PM by minasoliman »

Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Actually check out 4:50:30 and on. HB Pope Theodorus II the Greek gives his congratulatory speech ending with a gift and an Axios. I must say that is unheard of in the history of our churches. This was an unusual enthronement service. What made it more unusual was the diptych by the ArchChanter Ibrahim Ayad before the reading of the gospel, which included Pope Tawadros, Patriarch Mar Ignatius Zaka, and Pope Theodoros. Never on an official level has this happened before as far as I recall.

YEAH... I watched the enthronement service live, and I couldn't believe my ears! I wanted to repeat that part again to make sure that cantor Ibrahim really mentioned H.B.'s name. So I waited until the enthronement was uploaded to YouTube and watched that part again! even if all of this was unusual, I really felt the genuine and brotherly love, that hopefully will lead to something fruitful in the near future.

But this wasn't the first time I witness a similar thing, I remember that several years ago, H.B. Pope Peter VII (the previous Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Alexandria) visited my church in Alexandria, and he entered the church in a procession while our deacons were chanting the Coptic Papal hymns. H.B. gave then a really heart-warming talk that I unfortunately fail to remember, but I still can recall how I felt while listening to his words.

The seating arrangement of the Greek HH Pope Theodore II is interesting.

HE Met. Bakhomious got the Coptic HH Pope Theodore II's papacy off to a good start. His Arabic (Classical, that is) was excellent.

H.E.'s speech was great, but not without grammatical mistakes, I was a bit irritated when H.E. "كان يكسر المفعول به و ينصب المضاف إليه" (sorry can't write this in English). But, of course, this doesn't diminish the value of his great words that really showed how humble he is.