Even if that's so, and I don't think it's in the official rules that we're using although I may have missed a reference somewhere, having Simple Rhymomancy does not make a unit a Rhymomancer. Only a true caster would qualify.

Well Kaed didn't shoot it down when I pointed it out in an earlier post, it comes from the Spell Compendium that goes with the rules we're using, backed up by the example of Wanda. Casters are not dance-fighters by default, but she was able to lead uncroaked in one because she casts from Rhymomancy too. (and lets be honest, Rhyme-o-mancy of any level would be underpowered if they weren't automatically dance-fighters). As for whether a simple-caster would get that, the special Simple-Mancy however states that the unit casts spells as a level 1 caster, so they are the same thing in that regard.I'll await a final call from Kaed...and if it's an issue it's seriously gonna screw up my side composition so I'll need to do a big rework.

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

Casters are not dance-fighters by default, but she was able to lead uncroaked in one because she casts from Rhymomancy too.

No, she was able to lead her uncroaked in dance-fighting because uncroaked units led by a master-class croakamancer can dance-fight, which was made clear in the comic pages at the time of that event. Her other capabilities don't enter into it.

0beron wrote:

(and lets be honest, Rhyme-o-mancy of any level would be underpowered if they weren't automatically dance-fighters).

This is a ridiculous assertion given that we know very little of what the discipline can do, aside from being usable by casters of any discipline to empower their spellcasting if used properly. For all we know it has extremely potent spellcasting capabilities.

0beron wrote:

As for whether a simple-caster would get that, the special Simple-Mancy however states that the unit casts spells as a level 1 caster, so they are the same thing in that regard.

The phrase "casts spells as a level 1 caster" at no point either states or implies the possession of any caster abilities other than using spells. Units with simple mancies do not function as commanders, they do not grant a leadership bonus to units affiliated with their discipline, they cannot enter the magic kingdom, and so forth; they get the casting ability and the casting ability only.

In any case, none of that actually says "your units don't have dance-fighting for free", but I'm reasonably certain that none of the points you made logically support the idea that they do.

she was able to lead her uncroaked in dance-fighting because uncroaked units led by a master-class croakamancer can dance-fight, which was made clear in the comic pages at the time of that event. Her other capabilities don't enter into it.

No, the comic made it clear uncroaked normally cannot dance-fight PERIOD. Being led by a master-class croakamancer makes them CAPABLE of dance-fighting, but does nothing to affect the croakamancer's own abilities. This means the leading croakamancer would still need to be a dance-fighter in order to lead them.

Exate wrote:

0beron wrote:

(and lets be honest, Rhyme-o-mancy of any level would be underpowered if they weren't automatically dance-fighters).

This is a ridiculous assertion given that we know very little of what the discipline can do, aside from being usable by casters of any discipline to empower their spellcasting if used properly. For all we know it has extremely potent spellcasting capabilities.

While you may be correct, we can only work off what we DO know, so given the limited scope of Rhymomancy's demonstrated powers, they would be underpowered compared to other casters in the game.Edit: Just to give you an idea of what Rhymomancy would actually do on those units, this is what Kaed has said I can do with them. For 2 rounds per day, their Dance-fighting bonus increases by 2. That's it.

Exate wrote:

The phrase "casts spells as a level 1 caster" at no point either states or implies the possession of any abilities other than casting spells. Units with simple mancies do not function as commanders, they do not grant a leadership bonus to units affiliated with their discipline, they cannot enter the magic kingdom, and so forth; they get the casting ability and the casting ability only.

Forgive me, I paraphrased. The exact language is "Grants the unit the ability to cast from a discipline as a level 1 caster". That is a pretty open statement. Your other arguments are totally baseless because nothing says they can't do any of that stuff (though they would of course need the leadership special to lead units from their discipline)

So, like I said, I'll await Kaed's ruling on it.

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

Oberon, please chill. I just started some new work and was getting everything set up from 8 to 3 including a ridiculous hour bus commute each way. Tomorrow I will start training and be back sometime in the afternoon. If I'm not too exhausted to prep again I'll do my best. I'm sorry it's taking a bit but things will pick up by the weekend at the latest, I don't work then.

I'm going to say that rhyme-o-mancy provides free dance fighting as long as you have juice. Once you're tapped, the music stops. Think I will upgrade the bonus to +3 to create a kind of surge mechanic. You can do it for one round without penalty but the second will burn out your groove. Use it wisely.

Going to nap now, I gotta be up at 6am just to catch the bus on time x_x

_________________UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.

Unit names in bold have spent too many points, unit names in italics have some points remaining.

Knight: 2 points spent on Hits, 6 on each Attack and Defense. Ranged, however, costs 3 points for a Knight so that puts you at 17 points, 1 above the Knight's limit.

A-special: -2 points spent on Hits, 1 on each Attack and Defense. 11 points spent on Specials (2 simple, 1 3-point, 1 4-point), so that puts you at 11 out of 14 points.

B-special: 3 points spent on each Attack and Defense, 2 points spent on Move. 4 points spent on Specials (2 simple), so that puts you at 12 out of 14 points. Also, since you put 2 points into Move, it might be more efficient to buy Speed Boost.

C-special: 4 points spent on Attack, 5 on Defense, 3 on Move. 6 points spent on Specials (3 simple), so that puts you at 18 out of 20 points. Also, since you put 3 points into Move, it might be more efficient to buy Speed Boost.

D-special: 7 points into Attack, 5 into Defense, 5 into Move. 14 points spent on Specials (3 simple, 1 6-point), which leaves us at 31 points out of 28. If we presume that you just bought Speed Boost instead, that brings your move up to 9 and makes this analysis look like:D-special w/Speed Boost: 7 into Attack, 5 into Defense. 16 spent on Specials (3 simple, 1 6-point, Speed Boost), for a total of 28 points out of 28.

A-ship: -1 point into Attack, 1 point into Defense, 6 points into Move. Total: 6 points out of 7 spent.

B-ship: 5 into Attack, 4 into Defense, 3 into Move. 2 in Specials. Total: 14 points out of 12 spent.

C-ship: 2 into Hits, 7 into each Attack and Defense, 1 into Move, 2 into Cargo. 2 in Specials. Total: 21 points out of 22 spent.

_________________"The Infantrymen of Erfworld have nothing to lose but their chains. They have Erfworld to win. Infantry of all sides: Unite!"--Kawl Mawx, Master-class Moneymancer

*is worried that Kaed's absence means his new job has caused him to just curl up in a hole and die of exhaustion* You ok buddy?

In the meantime, I'm one of those who is big on flavor and such, so I figured I would type up a lil description of my side's starting Capital

Morlock Wells is a city built into the very peak of Mount Morlock, its various stone structures connected by broad metal-wrought walkways and adorned with clockwork and pipes. Being a side full of fliers, broad terraces branch off the sides of buildings in apparent defiance of gravity. Every building seemed to be reaching for the sky, as if this highest mountain peak in sight were still not high enough above the Erf for their liking. As a level 1 City and lacking Walls, the peak is watched over by a circle of towers comprised of a staircase spiraling around a slender spire, crowned by a wide platform.

The Court Melodic itself was a small but elegant structure. Stone masonry and wrought metals form graceful spires and arches that leave the structure open to the cool breezes, warmer than one might expect for this elevation. At the front of the Court, facing into the rising sun, a grand clock marked the passage of time and turns, beginning with the construction of Morlock Wells. Within the Court, Queen Victoria Verne sits upon a simple but elegant throne of polished copper, backed by a grand device of pipes and strings and other accoutrements, which produces incredible music at her command.

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

I'm okay! I'm finishing up the map now, will be sending it to the other GM in a little bit and we can staaaart... tomorrow. Or today.

Depending on when he comes by.

(By the way people, Data Entry for the masses is uuuuuuuuugh. Wry you never bring your ID and proof of address it's not that freaking haaaard. This one lady, her 'ID' was a medical insurance card for her kid. That was expired as of 10 years ago. What 8I )

_________________UNLESS someone like you cares a whole awful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not.

Have you had the chance to take a look at the various pop times for units to address the concerns I raised in this post? Any changes are unlikely to be relevant for the first few turns unless you decide to change the base pop rates for level 1 cities, but once we get higher-level cities I'd say that the system is in need of serious revamping. Being prepared from the start on that score would be nice, since there will probably be enough to worry about just running the game without needing to muck about with the rules by the time any changes would become important.

Our first dozen turns aren't going to include anything special, I doubt we'll even be close enough together to MEET before we get level 2 cities. I think we can start anyway and iron out the popping rates, experience, and unit-level-ups in the next few days as we play.

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

2) I think these bonuses should apply retroactively. Wrigley (the Unaroyal stabber) mentioned training/practicing, so if new units are benefiting from better barracks/morale, then the old units should get that too.

3) The Knights definitely need to pop faster, cus they're currently equal to warlords and they're def less powerful.

4) I think the special units pop rates are pretty on-target. I might pop A/B at the same rate as Scouts are now (and maybe let them have a +1 to a stat of our choice, chosen when the city levels), C should pop as fast as A/B does now, and D should speed up a bit (maybe 1/10 turns starting at level 3, instead of 15)

_________________"I'm afraid I don't understand. And also afraid that I do."

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