there has been statues of tengu, thats like saying in marvel comics that the avengers mustve had abe lincoln in it because you see pics/ statues of abe in the comic book. the reason there is statues is because that is a part of japanese culture.also you also see buhda's statue but you dont say that budha started the amakichi clan or anything.

it was never stated that it's chakra was darker. it is called sinister. sinister means "bad evil or wicked, threatening or portending to evil harm or trouble, ominous.
tengu: they arent evil in japanese culture either. they are protectors of mountains and forests.

uchiha madara: tell me where he is mentioned beside when the kyubi says he had more sinister chakra than itself, and where tobi says kono uchiha madara. even if he is the founder of the uchiha clan and is the statue its never stated yet. if the spoilers are true then he may be.

have you noticed that this theory is purely one of english speaking countries?
my friends who live in japan havent heard of it before. and they are narutards. they freaking dress up in cosplay for conv there

also put credit to where credit is due. this is yasha's theory on naruto fan. its called the dark history of the uchiha

to how the uchiha was created without tengu. the same way as the byakugan was created i would think. evolution or tampering with chakra. if the only way the sharingan could be developed was the tengu then how would you explain any of the kekkei genkai

09-14-2007, 11:51 AM

12LetterName

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiruko

Also, I must say that your epitome of self-confidence followed right by "we don't know who madara is yet" is quite awesome. We do know. Only you don't. Sorry. Sigh. I'm too bored seeking the pages to show you, I bet you would say that the hairstyle of the big statue isn't EXACTLY the same than the hairstyle of smaller statues in the uchiha town, etc, etc.

Well we don't know who Madara is yet, we know he is powerful, we know he has a sinister Chakra, we know that he has the sharingan. The only other thing is that picture in the Spoiler thread, but that was never confirmed to be Madara, that's just an assumption, unless you have a page that states the character is Madara then you can't say it like it's a fact.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hiruko

Also, if you deny the existence of the Tengu in the manga, please tell me why. I can't wait to know how was created the Uchiha clan without tengus, and what gave them a Chakra 'darker than Kyuubi's itself' if not a tengu. I'm double-waiting.

Umm what? Where did you pull that one out of? "It's evil so it must be Tengu!!!" That's like saying "Hidan comes back to life so he must be Jesus!!!" Basically there is no proof that Tengu exists in the Naruto universe. By proof I mean something solid like a character refering to Tengu or something along those lines. Not something like.http://img133.imageshack.us/img133/7750/nakanoae2.png
That my friend is not proof that tengu exist in the Naruto universe.
Someone with high ambitions and power can easily be corrupted and become very evil by them selves, they don't have to be born from demons to do it.

09-14-2007, 11:02 PM

Hiruko

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryusukai1990

it was never stated that it's chakra was darker. it is called sinister. sinister means "bad evil or wicked, threatening or portending to evil harm or trouble, ominous.
tengu: they arent evil in japanese culture either. they are protectors of mountains and forests.

uchiha madara: tell me where he is mentioned beside when the kyubi says he had more sinister chakra than itself

Well, puns on the words aren't really welcome. If you make such big difference between "dark" and "sinister" it's your problem... lol. I said dark like this. I was just not at seeking for the exact term again, which actually is "cursed" - still it's pretty much the same concept again, but you might see a big difference again, who knows.

Anyway, you might feel shocked now that the 370th made all of this look a bit more right in your head. Though it's just plain empty, it's just like that "revelation" about Yondaime being Naruto's father; it's already been pretty obvious for aeons.

It's not my fault if you base your thinking exclusively on things written black on white with a copyright on it. Remember, a ninja is "someone who reads between the lines." Try to do that too sometimes, it'll do you only good.

And yes, all that stuff about tengus is Yasha's work on some forums, though I don't remember saying I found all of this out on my own and asking greetings etc. Plus, a big part of what Yasha wrote is only supposition and everything isn't right. Moreover he isn't the only one to notice these details and think about it you know.

And indeed as you said, tengus are spirits. Spirits look rather dark to humans, don't they? They might be natural spirits, they are still demons. And don't spit out all the stuff you know about Dante's Hell to describe demons. Demons just aren't exactly the same thing on both sides of the planet, as everything else.

The thing about those statues is they are always placed in Uchiha-related places. Don't think I'm a child and reason as one thx.

09-15-2007, 02:20 AM

tatsukai1990

i didnt even say anything about dante's inferno. and no, demons arent the same in every culture. in japanese demon is yokai, oni, and a few other words. tengu are normally refered to in japan as a kami. that means god or revered spirit.
it also doesnt matter that madara was the founder of the uchiha clan or what. so what your saying is that the "tengu king" fucked a hyuga girl and the girl popped out a kid with the sharingan instead of the byakugan because of its dark chakra. tell me kind sir if the sharingan was a product of demon chakra, then how would you explain the byakugan, kimimaru's bones, or any other kekkei genkai because how would ordinary ninjas get special abilities like that. maybe a tanuki mixed chakra with a random ninja or maybe it was a kappa that did it. dont tell me about how diff cultures range around the world. i lived in japan for nearly 8 years, not in no military base either

09-15-2007, 02:41 AM

Hiruko

Indeed it doesn't matter if Madara was the founder of the Uchiha clan or not (though he is), I was just putting this as a note. Details contribute to making an clear and informative speech, as you seem to know it. Why don't you whine about the shodai while you're at it :p whatever. The only thing we're supposed to know about kekkei genkai is to be found in the 3rd volume, when kakashi tells his pupils about Haku pulling off weird tricks with water. He just says their blood comes from the most ancient clan/families, maybe before humans even existed as they are now - that's in a strip where you can see primitive human shapes with a DNA extract in the background. I guess it must be some kind of odd mutations or legacies from older species or whatever of that kind, ie. not connected to demons as far as we know. But then again with only a strip we don't know much about this, so I can't answer your question. Though you'll admit the Uchiha bloodline seems to be quite unique, and who knows this is a manga altered karasu tengus might exist :p Plus, on that picture of Madara in the last chapter you can see something that looks like a big fan on his back, wearing sharingan-shaped tags. Guess what it is? I bet on Sosanoo

09-15-2007, 05:36 AM

tatsukai1990

sosanoo was the god of storms one of the three main shinto gods along with tsukiyomu and amaterasu

09-15-2007, 01:26 PM

pat-san

Yeah, I agree that Tengu have been mentioned and that mostly/sometimes the references are linked with the Uchiha clan. But that doesn't mean that the whole Uchiha clan is part Tengu and whatnot. There has been no actual stating that they have the power of tengu, or whether they got sharingan from the Hyuuga clan, or if the tengu were real in the story.

09-15-2007, 04:53 PM

ChocoboBob

um no

Okay I haven't noticed any mention of karasu tengu but since a pat-san has also said theyre mentioned ill argue the other points, secondly the kyuubi was summoned a the time the 4th was hokage and since your saying that the 1st and madara fought due to him summoning the kyuubi that doesnt work because they fought at the founding of konoha. This is clearly stated by the frog saying that he was alive back at the founding and couldnt have been alive 15 or 16 years ago, now im nto saying he's dead just that the summoning happend ages after the fight bettween the first and madara. Thirdly the point u make about releasing the kyuubi for a portion of its power, theres absolutley no reason for either madara or the kyuubi to make this deal. Its stated that the kyuubi is a naturally occuring thing so why would it make a deal with someone like madara unless he had somthing to offer and summoning it isnt an offer since it comes on its own anyway, and on madara's side, kyuubi says that the uhciha chakra is more evil/powerful then his own so why would madara want it?

Nowhere does it say that karasu tengu is his father and even if karasu tengu was madara's farther y would he want to kill him??

And this all relies this tengu karasu being his father, now it would make more sense if u said somthing like he made a deal with it for power in exchange for his soul or somthing like with the devil lol, and he's trying to keep his life/soul or whatever.

On a side note you don't have to be an as*hole just because some people disagreed with a theory which not only did u not come up with but is full of holes. As fasr as enlightenment, this post is far from it.

09-15-2007, 05:48 PM

KingSoze

Oh boy we get to add to the Madara knowledge list!

As it stands...

-Sinister Chakra

-He existed during the founding (the other statue in the valley of the end).

-Founder of the Uchiha clan.

-Possibly powerful enough to summon the Kyubi. (However not powerful enough to beat the first Hokage)

That's all we know so far (I'm not confident enough to put "having MS" up there unless someone posts the page mentioning it, since there is so much of this rampant speculating going about).

Finally, a wall decoration that looked appropriate for the scene does not mean it fits into the story. It just means the creator liked how it looked and okayed it. This does not necessarily mean it is even a part of the story.

Please stop speculating from purely the visuals, background items, and likeness of characters. These things are a matter of style and the leniency of the creator on the artists. Please have some written word to back things up.

09-15-2007, 06:01 PM

Shikamaru-sensei

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingSoze

Oh boy we get to add to the Madara knowledge list!

As it stands...

-Sinister Chakra

-He existed during the founding (the other statue in the valley of the end).

-Founder of the Uchiha clan.

-Possibly powerful enough to summon the Kyubi. (However not powerful enough to beat the first Hokage)

That's all we know so far (I'm not confident enough to put "having MS" up there unless someone posts the page mentioning it, since there is so much of this rampant speculating going about).

Finally, a wall decoration that looked appropriate for the scene does not mean it fits into the story. It just means the creator liked how it looked and okayed it. This does not necessarily mean it is even a part of the story.

Please stop speculating from purely the visuals, background items, and likeness of characters. These things are a matter of style and the leniency of the creator on the artists. Please have some written word to back things up.

The only reason he is able to summon the kyuubi and not beat the 1st hogake is because shodia was able to supress the kyuubi's charka. If you say thats a lie, then you haven't been reading the manga.