No…people object to the idea that two people did something long go, and the “punishment” for their actions were passed down to us even though we had nothing to do with it.

But dont forget, we shouldnt take the old testament literally. Well sometimes we should. Well, no not that part. Ok, enough. You are sin. Can you explain the big bang? Youre not trying hard enough to walk the path of jesus. QED.

No…people object to the idea that two people did something long go, and the “punishment” for their actions were passed down to us even though we had nothing to do with it.

Now comes the “you’re not punished for their acts, you’re punished for your own” or some such nonsense.

And here’s the standard " I’ve done nothing wrong" nonsense.

Children and other innocent people have been paying the price for other peoples decisions throughout history. Innocent people are killed by someone else’s decision to drink and drive, Children are neglected and abused by parents, babies are murdered in the womb because women choose to have sex. And the list goes on and on…But you, of course, are not part of the problems of the world… Thank you Jesus for your example. We should all try to be like you.

This idea of an unforgiving God, who cursed all of mankind right from the very beginning gives you a complete misconception of God s character all through the rest of the Bible.

By cursing the ground, what happens? Adam and Eve - and their descendants - at first were going to have food handed to them on a platter. Now they’ll have to work hard to till the soil for food. Who is impacted by this curse on “the land”? Man. Therefore, man is cursed.

Then there’s Eve and all women-kind. If God didn’t curse Adam directly he certainly cursed Eve/women directly - always subjugated to man, and with increased pain in child birth.

God’s character is revealed throughout the Bible.

His actions of hardening Pharoah’s heart 9 times so he can cause suffering to the Egyptians to demonstrate his power.

The fact that he creates all humans, but then shows favoritism to the Hebrews and helps them to destroy all the rest of his creations.

Throughout the books of the Bible (up until Samuel which is as far as I’ve read), the Hebrews turn on God and start worshiping Baal, etc, but all God does is sell them into slavery a few times and then rescue them. But all the non-Hebrews that worship Baal - them he has the Hebrews utterly destroy (when they’re on his good side.) So Hebrews get to worship Baal and all that happens to them is they get sold into slavery for a few years. Non-Hebrews worship Baal and they are destroyed utterly.

No…people object to the idea that two people did something long go, and the “punishment” for their actions were passed down to us even though we had nothing to do with it.

Now comes the “you’re not punished for their acts, you’re punished for your own” or some such nonsense.

And here’s the standard " I’ve done nothing wrong" nonsense.

Children and other innocent people have been paying the price for other peoples decisions throughout history. Innocent people are killed by someone else’s decision to drink and drive, Children are neglected and abused by parents, babies are murdered in the womb because women choose to have sex. And the list goes on and on…But you, of course, are not part of the problems of the world… Thank you Jesus for your example. We should all try to be like you.

WHOOSH!

The point went right over your head.

The Bible makes it clear that sin entered the world through Adam and spread to all men.

Romans makes it clear that God “The Potter” created some vessels for eternal glory and some to death, and that we as “the Clay” have no right to question this.

So nherited this nature to sin from Adam’s actions, and yet God still holds us accountable for it.

All of this of course is absolutely true…if indeed the God of the universe set it up this way…his creation…his rules…but that doesn’t make for the type of God that ought to be worshipped.

And BTW…because I know you’ll go there next…there’s no place in this story that for “free will”…God makes it clear too that man in his sinful self would never seek for God’s salvation…only those whom God chooses to call will do so…there’s no “free will choice” about it.

The free will choice is a later justification to rescue the story from its consequences.

That’s the story of Christian apologetics…to rescue the Biblical story from certain implications.

I thought this was already answered. With the removal of sin and flesh as defined by scripture the only thing that can be willed is what is good. So no, the free will to sin will not exist in heaven. At some point it was permitted, otherwise Lucifer would not have been able to fall.

The primary one of course being if there is only one choice, to say it is free will is meaningless.

Free will outside of a biblical world view does not exist. There is no such thing as the ability to make choices free of impediment or consequence. Free will, as defined by a biblical world view, as the ability to make choices, right or wrong, good or evil, only exists this side of heaven. At some point, the current biblical definition will cease, as those in heaven will only be able to choose what is right. The ability to choose evil will not be available to those in heaven.

I thought this was already answered. With the removal of sin and flesh as defined by scripture the only thing that can be willed is what is good. So no, the free will to sin will not exist in heaven. At some point it was permitted, otherwise Lucifer would not have been able to fall.

So we can have free will but not be able to will sin? Kind of like, I have free will but I cant fly because I have no wings. Which begs the question…why did god strip our wings to begin with

The primary one of course being if there is only one choice, to say it is free will is meaningless.

Free will outside of a biblical world view does not exist. There is no such thing as the ability to make choices free of impediment or consequence. Free will, as defined by a biblical world view, as the ability to make choices, right or wrong, good or evil, only exists this side of heaven. At some point, the current biblical definition will cease, as those in heaven will only be able to choose what is right. The ability to choose evil will not be available to those in heaven.

Like I said, I look forward to my new Heavenly robot form.

But, it does make one ponder, why all the sadistic intermediate steps?

I’ve tried a number of times to type a post that doesn’t come across as holier than thou condescension, but I keep failing so I am just going to straight up ask, why does the idea of not being able to do or think evil trouble you?

I’ve tried a number of times to type a post that doesn’t come across as holier than thou condescension, but I keep failing so I am just going to straight up ask, why does the idea of not being able to do or think evil trouble you?

It doesn’t trouble anyone.

The people who are posting to you are pointing out logical inconsistencies in the Christian narrative.

The problem is some people in their conversation are having a logical/philosophical discussion and others are having a religious discussion, I think.

I’ve tried a number of times to type a post that doesn’t come across as holier than thou condescension, but I keep failing so I am just going to straight up ask, why does the idea of not being able to do or think evil trouble you?