Eureka Mayor Deposed on Religion

Peter Martin is championing a woman suing to enforce the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment and the California Constitution against what she says is the active government promotion of religion.

According to Martin, Jager testified that city staff drafted a proclamation and prepared a letter promoting the 2012 prayer breakfast.

”These two documents were prepared by city staff during working hours,” Martin said. “He may not feel that is inappropriate, but I think we will leave that up to a court to decide.”

Jager confirmed Friday that he had asked Deputy City Clerk Suzanne Ziemer to type up a letter promoting the breakfast, but said he doesn’t see that as a misuse of city time.

”It maybe took her two minutes to type up,” he said. “I mean God Almighty, we are really splitting hairs here.”

As a matter of law, I’m not certain that the time is relevant, only that public resources were used to promote a religion. It comes down to the details of the prayer breakfast. Public prayers have been upheld at the Federal level, but Peter Martin is arguing that California law is tougher.

The complaint cites a Hindu prayer delivered last summer as in violation. Is the City of Eureka really promoting Hinduism? In the movie Slackers it was suggested that the cartoon Smurfs was part of a plot acclimating us all to blue people – so we can deal with the return of Govinda.

Whaddya expect from him? Christianity is the basis of productive civilization, material wealth, and morality. Christian virtues are what differentiates the decent people in the community from the tweekers. That’s the attitude of one of Humboldt’s many ‘big fish in a small pond’. The bright, ambitious, talented, or insightful ones, either born here or later arrived, go elsewhere to realize their potential. And that leaves……..? Jager !

And it ain’t about political orientation. The Arcata city council passed the unconstitutional ordinance against public speech with the same mentality(or lack thereof).

So, NAN, what again is your attitude on “christianity”? If you answer that your a “small fish”, then HOJ will understand.

As far as this suit, if one penny was spent by staff on anything having any connection to religion without an application for permit process for some “chargeable action”, then by all means, the city promoted a religious event.

It is very clear, but since the courts are “cover-artists” for government, the judges may throw some knuckle balls and sliders at Peter Martin.

Law and court are so much more fake than first thought because it really is a “rigged set-up” to steal people’s wealth (Including taxpayers’) and to push government/corporate agendas and the connected elites who demand fifty times the hourly rate as compared to “minimum wage”.

If you have no money, then your legal rights don’t mean shit because court is all about spending money. Rarely does a victim get any justice and this known fact is also “destroying America”.

It’s a no win win. The ACLU always comes across as ludicrous when it wins against menorahs and nativities. It wins its case, but it loses its position.
I think it’s not so much a promotion of religion, though it is; as it’s a use of public resources for personal reasons. Whoever said it is right, it doesn’t matter the amount of resource used. Just like it doesn’t matter if you steal a stapler or paper clip. Your still stealing from your employer.

Personally I was more offended by the lack of professionalism, in this case, of Jager. I don’t expect to see my public officials endorsing a community wide prayer anything in their official role. If he wants to have his own weekly breakfast prayer meeting as Jager that’s just great. I can do that also. I can attend his if I wanted to as well. So can everyone else. There is no diminishing the practice of religion in this regard. However to act in an official capacity was wrong-headed and abusive of the power of his position. I don’t hate any religion nor would I move to strike religion. However I am a devout support of the separation between church and state. As a taxpayer I do not want to support Mr. Jager’s personal religious preference or, for that matter, the entire City Council’s whatever those may be. He should have known better and I expect better of him. A freshman in poly sci 101 would have figured this out. He is the Mayor!

as if Jager did not see the “light of day” prior to setting into motion a series of actions that leads to an event which then gets used as a basis for a lawsuit against the very entity which has a decision making body made-up of no less than at least the very individual we are discussing who put this all einto motion – Peter Martin is representing a client who is reacting to the abuse of power AND who has the right to do so since Jager helped to create that right to suit.

The comment is a fair and accurate depiction of the type of people running the show in Humboldt County jurisdictions when more important issues at hand slap us all in the face with the effect of a cold winter’s day, suffice to say. Step-off.

“The comment is a fair and accurate depiction of the type of people running the show in Humboldt County jurisdictions when more important issues at hand slap us all in the face with the effect of a cold winter’s day, suffice to say.”
HOJ, these are your words, they are so profound. It is not a compliment, and made me think of the BOS. Arrogant with power.

Jane, you voiced the words of my partner. She is also a devout supporter of separation of church and state. Her words to me were “you should never ever never never have a public employee, while s/he is at work,do religious work of any kind.”

How about discussion of what’s really happening to the middle class. Twinkies and Ho Hos are back. But guess what, they’ve been deunionized! As predicted by me, the bankruptcy was simply the means to an end. Wheres the outrage and protest???

Twinkies Are Coming Back
By Eric Schaal
April 28, 2013

Junk food enthusiasts everywhere can celebrate, as the return of Twinkies is assured. The cream-filled golden cakes synonymous with childhoods past will be on shelves as early as July. They will be accompanied by Ho Hos, Zingers and Ding Dongs, but won’t be made by employees belonging to labor unions.

The company that bought the division of Hostess responsible for the production of Twinkies will set up shop in multiple locations across the country and bring jobs back to Columbus, Georgia and Emporia, Kansas–two locations that closed following the demise of Hostess Brands, Inc. amid a labor dispute last November. Investment groups Metropoulos and Apollo Global Management (NASDAQ:APO) bought the brands along with other Dolly Madison products following a public outcry about the disappearance of the classic junk food staple.

NBC News reported that many of the company’s old plants will reopen after it hires non-union employees to fill the vacated Teamsters and Bakery Union positions. Michael Cramer, Executive VP of the new Hostess, seemed adamant in his attempt to avoid working with unions, which refused to continue under the existing conditions and forced the hand of company officials last year…

“We’re sure not going to invite the unions in,” Cramer told NBC. The reopening of many of the original Hostess plants will mark a significant blow to labor unions, many of which are still smarting from the efforts to weaken organizations in Wisconsin and other places. The blueprint is enticing for investors hoping to circumvent organized labor: simply dissolve the company, revamp the approach and use the same facilities to begin business again. Manufacturing jobs are filled quickly.

Of course, the protection offered by unions in exchange for dues was not delivered to members in the case of the Hostess debacle. Employees would have been forced to sacrifice large parts of wages or benefits in order to prevent the factories making Twinkies from closing. In many ways, the story of Hostess’s end was the story of any failing company. There is no way to stop unions from forming, of course, making Cramer’s company vulnerable to the same disputes that troubled the former Hostess.

Have you got a copy of the Hindu prayer that was delivered? I doubt it specifically objected to any Christian beliefs.

I wonder how the mayor would feel about a Jewish prayer in which a rabbi asks for the coming of the Messiah, and points out that all we’ve had to date have been charlatans (as is the straightforward, non-controversial belief of Judaism).

In this situation, 3+ hours later, refresh did not reveal the “questioned” post….it popped-up this morning.

Now, you do raise a good thought – maybe the network has some weird timing delays.

Anyhow, figured Eric could have an explanation from his stance as a blog administrator afficianado with “wonder twin power” skills.

As far as separation of church and state: tough love is how this issue must be handled. People can have their faith, but keep the taxpayers out of it as a whole. Individuals already have all the options in the world to pick and choose their faith and when and how they establish their indoctrination and practices on their own dime, not that of the public sector.

Personally, being of faith is not the issue, it is “separation of that faith” from an institutionalized public structure that has to accomodate not only many various and different faiths, but also those who don’t have any faiths whatsoever because they don’t have any church, nor want to be a part of any church. Church = “essentially anything religious”.

A problem is individuals in a publicly elected position who wantonly, knowingly, willfully and intentionally use their individual position to advance individual and group agendas, and doing so not by spending their own money, but using public resources (tax dollars and other ancillary benefits).

Spot on HOJ.
The Republicans want religion in politics big time. My partner laughed out loud when I read suzy blah blahs Raisin Bran post. There isn’t one right winger that doesn’t want/itch for a church-state. They dream, they salivate for a church-state. Look at Bush. “One Nation Under God” was added to the Pledge of Allegiance because of Republicans like D. Eisenhower and R. Nixon, and the Knights of Columbus. Holy Cow.

Yeah, the whole fam damnly of City Council and Supes. should “crouch down and lick the hands that feed them.”

One of the many lawsuits that is on the camel’s back, is the City of Eureka v. the people. Who do these phuukers think they are? Where do they come up with this shit? We the people picked up the tab for a Sacramento legal firm -Orrick_ to come to Humboldt’s Administration Room, labeled court (April 8) and spread the KY nice and thick in order for these thieves and criminals to receive their CalPers benefits & retirement payments. It was a 3-way – judgie wudgie REINHOLTSEN, the lying lawyers from Sacramento, and the CC, all stroking each other.

Response: Dunno Eric, that would suggest you screened HOJ’s post first, even though Jane’s show’s one minute prior @ 10:15 AND the fact that for several hours + copy and paste after 10:16, Jane was not born yet on this thread.

Hence, HOJ’s original discovery of Jane’s post being “inputed” after HOJ’s, even though Jane’s post apparantly occured only a mere one minute prior to HOJ’s post.

C’mon Eric, you do this stuff on purpose just to get HOJ to hound dog you with copy and paste techniques that can compare several hours of on screen facts to verbal hyperbole.

Cookie, to answer your question, if you have a WordPress account, only your first post goes into moderation. Once I let the first one through, you post freely, except that if you have a lot of links in a post, WordPress may put your post into moderation, or even into the spam file and I have to approve it.

You don’t have an account so all of your posts have to be approved.

Several years ago I switched from Blogspot to WordPress because Blogspot’s moderation was all or nothing – I had to approve all posts, or none. But there are three people I have banned from the blog for reasons I’m not going into here, but they have nothing to do with Estelle Fennel or the community park. I have blocked posts which attacked Estelle – I specifically do not wish for this blog to be a forum on her personal relationships. If you want to criticize her policy, you are more than welcome to do so. I have done so on numerous occasions, and will continue to do so because I am in opposition to what I view as policies which give developers too free a hand – real developers, not a volunteer board trying to create a park. I have opposed both of her election campaigns, and regardless of how she votes on the park, I suspect that her votes on the General Plan will not make me more likely to support her in the future, though I consider her a friend. I am not particularly impressed with her selection for the Planning Commission, nor do I agree with her vote to scrap even looking at whether future construction will place a financial impact on the community as a whole for the lack of fees to cover them. I anticipate further issues with her policies. But some of the attacks on her have been nasty and irrelevant to the discussion, and I won’t allow them here.

I have also blocked posts which have attacked Clif. I have blocked posts which have attacked other parties, private and public. I have even blocked posts which attacked Ed Voice, and Frenchy. I have blocked posts which are racist, anti-semitic, homophobic, and just plain offensive. And I block spam, and sometimes trolls who have a personal agenda which is off topic.

There’s a sign at the entrance which reads, “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone. I used to have a completely open policy about post, but during the Reggae War it got bad as anonymous posters on both sides of the conflict just got really nasty. Other bloggers take a different approach, and any one of you can start a blog of your own and do it your way. It takes less than five minutes. It’s free. I’ll even plug it.

One of the many lawsuits that is on the camel’s back, is the City of Eureka v. the people. Who do these phuukers think they are? Where do they come up with this shit? We the people picked up the tab for a Sacramento legal firm -Orrick_ to come to Humboldt’s Administration Room, labeled court (April 8) and spread the KY nice and thick in order for these thieves and criminals to receive their CalPers benefits & retirement payments. It was a 3-way – judgie wudgie REINHOLTSEN, the lying lawyers from Sacramento, and the CC, all stroking each other.

Actually, this lawsuit was filed by Peter Martin, a local progressive solo practitioner.

Eric wrote, …because Blogspot’s moderation was all or nothing – I had to approve all posts, or none.

I’m not sure what blogspot allows now if only because I can’t find the page where you set moderation preferences. Love their upgrades!

What they did allow some time ago was an option that comments made to posts over 3 days old would be the only ones moderated. That’s worked very well for the most part as most spammers try to find older posts they think nobody’s paying attention to.

Spammers don’t get through and few legitimate commentators are inconvenienced.

Eric wrote, …because Blogspot’s moderation was all or nothing – I had to approve all posts, or none.

Response: This “excuse” does not explain what happened; and, what happened with Jane’s and HOJ’s post “defies” what Eric excused himself for. Eric moderated out of sequential and chronological order where time and space were, shall it be said, discovered to spearate Jane’s and HOJ’s post by several hours based upon the computer screen and copy and paste functions.

Copy and paste memorializes “in time” what happened and when. For Eric to say this or that, well, the proof shoots down that conspiracy.

Actually, this lawsuit was filed by Peter Martin, a local progressive solo practitioner.

Yes Eric,

on behalf of a client who first came to Peter Martin (not the other way around), a suit was filed because a prick city leader decided to play politics and religion when more important issues slap us all in the face with the effect of a cold winter day.

Actually you don’t even have to have a WordPress account to avoid moderation. Just put an e-mail address in the box (it doesn’t even have to be a real one). Your first post will go to moderation, but after that it won’t. At least that’s been my experience.

Rant all you want, but Eric’s explanation fits my own experience exactly. When I have forgotten to put my e-mail address in, my post goes to moderation, then after Eric’s approved the comment and it appears in the thread, it’s position in the thread is determined by the time/date that I submitted the comment, not by the time/date Eric approved it. So if others have posted comments in the meantime, mine will “pop up” in between. If you pay attention, you will notice that this happens quite regularly with anonymous comments.

Amazing how quick some people are to insist on evidence-free conspiracy-type explanations, when simpler, evidence-based explanations are available. As I’ve said before, it seems to me that conspiracy theorists tend to be people who believe that they have superior observational and critical thinking skills, but who actually have rather poor observational and critical thinking skills. Unfortunately, those poor skills, along with a somewhat paranoid outlook overall, prevents them from recognizing just how lousy they are at judging the veracity of competing claims, and distinguishing between meaningful patterns, and meaningless ones.

Again, for the record, I moderate the posts when I see them. When the little box up in the right hand corner is colored orange, I know I have posts to clear. I hit the menu, it comes down. I click on “dashboard” and it takes me to the recent posts. The posts which need moderation are colored yellow. I read them, and in most cases approve them in the order in which they are stacked on my screen. It’s that simple.

Henchman Of Justice @ 7:18 (probably not the correct time of your post),

Perhaps Peter Martin, with his Title of Nobility, did file the docs. for “Eureka Mayor Disposed.” I’m referring to the CASE No. DR120811 – City of Eureka v. the very people who financially support them.

Oh my gosh. Honestly, I was just being cheeky. Eric doesn’t always show his jovial sense of humor here and I was pushing buttons–but in a nice way. Now look where it has gone!

[full disclosure] I have written code for blogger programs. I used a different email address which I recently changed to so I knew why my post was moderated. I was just tweaking Eric a bit about being moderate. The Estelle thing was extra points. I don’t like the woman as a person. I’ve liked very little about her politics. I could care less about her spousal unit as long as she identifies herself when blogging promos and public relations for Estelle. Like Eric, I agree, things without validation should be deleted or things which are invasive personally. Civility isn’t passe is it? Besides we will have enough to write about Estelle in the upcoming years without having to go to those places (yes, that was a snark).

As for the order of posts. My calming suggestion would be that when Eric approved moderation he started at the bottom of the list and moved up rather than in a time sequence oriented in the other direction.

HOJ mentioned at least one to two weeks ago that the times on these posts appeared 1 hour off due to the daylight/fallback scenario. Don’t seem so shocked since technology ain’t all that it is cracked-up to be. Now, hope this food is real at lunchtime here where the sun is middleish of the sky.

-suzy can truly say that i’ve never had any trouble posting on this blog. My comments always appear immediately after i click “send”. I can’t remember ever having been moderated, blocked, or censored, in the many years i’ve been here. And i really really like the time difference –because if i miss 4:20, i can celebrate it on SoParlance time.

Erik how do you avoid the dreaded “Chinese” spam? I still use “Blogspot”, and I’ve had to go to moderation to prevent being spamed beyond belief. Now I’ve gotten a whole bunch of “comments” that start off as comments, but quickly switch to promotion of some product or service. At least they’re in English, so I suppose it’s an improvement. Of course, I’m not very active with my blog during the school year, but it’s still annoying.

Jeffery, may I call you Jeffery? You and I have been speaking through the blogs for years, and I have to tell you that you need to see some good once in a while, or you’re just going to get banned, again. Even if there are base motives for the actions of our local ‘Electipods’, it’s depressing to hear a person go on and on about them. I do the same thing with capitalism, and it’s a bore to overstate it. It’s just more data. Most intelligent Americans know what the situation is, and those who don’t aren’t going to be swayed by a neo-socialist like myself. So as a fan, I just want to say, lighten up on the locals. They’re not as evil as you portray them to be. They’re just people who have different ideas about what’s what.
Oh yeah, and send money to KMUD, it’ll make you feel better. And that goes for everyone, Even if you’re not a “Progressive” the local news and music is for everyone, and the Mud needs help. It’s like your kid, you don’t just feed him once and call it good. You have to nurture them forever, even after you’re no longer supporting them financially.

Erik how do you avoid the dreaded “Chinese” spam? I still use “Blogspot”, and I’ve had to go to moderation to prevent being spamed beyond belief. Now I’ve gotten a whole bunch of “comments” that start off as comments, but quickly switch to promotion of some product or service. At least they’re in English, so I suppose it’s an improvement. Of course, I’m not very active with my blog during the school year, but it’s still annoying.

I haven’t been on Blogspot for a few years now, but WordPress is pretty good about separating spam from mere moderation, although I have to check the spam file because some posts make it there which shouldn’t have – usually if there’s more than one link in the post. Rarely does one of the spams make it into my moderation file, and the “comments” are usually pretty goofy and recognizable.

The spam and the moderation options were the two primary reasons I switched over.

Eric, back to separation of church and state, my partner told me a story I would like to tell here. She was 12 when the addition of “under God” was added to the Pledge. She is much older than I. I wasn’t even born yet. She told me they said the Pledge of Allegiance everyday. Anyway, she remembers going to school one day, and the Pledge of Allegiance was up on the chalk board, with the added words in very big capital letters. The teacher made sure everyone knew and saw the added words, then they said the new Pledge. The new Pledge remained up on that chalk board for one week, so everyone could read and memorize the added words and the now new Pledge. Wild. The rest is history.

“Eric…..From what I can see, your blog is heading in the same direction as the Herald. The same players have moved over here, having destroyed the Herald. Good luck.”
Now that is rich, and not a trace of Irony. Who”destroyed” the “Herald?” It was you and the rest of you right-wing monkey-wrenchers who came over from the “Mirror.” You were one of the worst trolls on that site! Talking all kinds of provocative trash while hiding behind your anonymity.
Get therapy pal, your memory must have failed.

Cookie – the wording was changed by an act of Congress in 1954 and the legislative history is specifically worded that the change was intended to “acknowledge the dependence of our people and our Government upon … the Creator … [and] deny the atheistic and materialistic concept of communism.”

That alone should have been the basis for overturning it – when the legislative history itself states a religious purpose. If the Establishment Clause wasn’t intended to prevent a jihad based propaganda effort, what’s the point of it?

The irony is that the pledge itself was originally written by Francis Bellamy, a relative of Edward Bellamy who wrote “Looking Forward,” a socialist utopian novel. Francis himself was a self-identified “Christian socialist,” who wrote the pledge as an attempt to promote national community identity while balancing the concepts of individual and community rights. Not only did the original version not have a reference to God, it also didn’t have a reference to the United States. I think at some point it was popularized by a marketing strategy by a flag manufacturer who included a copy of it in the flags they sold, and then during WWII somebody in government decided to make it official.

“Moviedad…..are you saying that right wingers and progressives went head to head, and you lost? I’m surprised you’s admit as much.”

As far as “[R]ight [W]ingers” and “progressives” going “…head to head…” No pal, it takes two to tango. and it’s not going head to head when one person is known and identifiable and the other talks insults and trash, while hiding in the bush. Not equitable by any means.
I notice the two of you do the same thing here as you did there. You don’t comment on the issue, you just insult the commentator.
Two old’ Grumps in the balcony throwing insults at the Muppets doing the real work on stage.
Some folks are anonymous because of work concerns. Others are anonymous because it allows them to lie.

Some folks are anonymous because of work concerns. Others are anonymous because it allows them to lie.

Response: Yet, they are both respected equally as inferior and untrustworthy. If work concerns is a problem, then who is a slave to whom? Who is a servant to what? Ya, same argument as why business people would not advertize campaign signs and stuff for fear of losing patronage, but now its different.

Let’s face it, having a handle, moniker, namesake, unique identity shows someone who wants separation and transparency, not shadowy, bushwhacking backstabbing by some joker who is too scared to believe their own retoric. The secrecy of “anonymous” types’ demeanor and identity is quite telling about those pathetic losers in our community who are “cold-cocking, haymaker throwing deceivers” and stay anonymous because certain people would get exposed as the liars and backstabbers they really are if others caught wind who anonymous was.

Hi Eric, my partner did tell me it was changed in 1954. She was born in 1942. As I said,I was not born when the change occurred. It was a great story I thought. Someone I know, seeing and living such a part of history. She told all that you did, plus more. Can’t remember the name of the guy who did the “petition” to take to Congress, but he was a lawyer.

Rant all you want, but Eric’s explanation fits my own experience exactly. When I have forgotten to put my e-mail address in, my post goes to moderation, then after Eric’s approved the comment and it appears in the thread, it’s position in the thread is determined by the time/date that I submitted the comment, not by the time/date Eric approved it. So if others have posted comments in the meantime, mine will “pop up” in between. If you pay attention, you will notice that this happens quite regularly with anonymous comments.

I don’t know what to tell you James. I approve them in the order I receive them. Your post, however, ended up in my spam, which I only check once every few days. But now that I’ve approved your first post, most of your posts will not go into moderation. Some do, and some end up in the spam file – usually if they have links.

Either way, there’s no sinister plot here. I just read them over and approve them as I see them.

I do not know who or what “James Macias” is, but I assume it’s a spammer or a spam-bot.

By the way, if you read my comment (or the spammer’s copy of it) a little bit more carefully, it should be clear that I was not accusing you of a sinister plot — to the contrary, I was corroborating your explanation, which is why I said (in reply to HOJ’s paranoid accusations) “Rant all you want, but Eric’s explanation fits my own experience exactly.”

Anyway, the comment by “James Macias” is a copy-and-paste duplicate, and “James Macias” is probably just a spam-bot. Note that “his” name is linked to some role-playing website. This is apparently a common spam-bot gambit — the spam-bot copies and pastes someone else’s comment, so that the spam-bot’s comment will appear to be real and on-topic. Hard to believe it actually accomplishes much for the spam-bot’s creator/sponsor, but it must work to some degree, because I see the same gambit pretty frequently on other comment threads; for example on TPM.

Anyway, just thought I’d give you a heads-up — I’d hate to see your blog get spammed silly like the poor NCJ Blogthing was before they finally straightened that out.

Weird! So the spambot comes and snatches up some text, and regurgitates it. I guess they must sell their stuff that way, or they wouldn’t spend so much time trying to figure out how to get posted.

And I’ve been hit with an inordinate amount of spam lately. Like 70 attempted posts a day. All but one or two get snagged by my spam-buster. But this blog has definitely drawn the attention of some software, somewhere.