http://www.nbc-2.com/News/stories/061803-lemonade_stand.shtml
NAPLES, June 18, 2003 - A six-year-old girl was heartbroken when her small lemonade stand was put out of business because she didn’t have a temporary business permit. A neighbor called the police and her stand was shut down.
BACK IN BUSINESS
"Gotta get ready for the sale,” said Abagail.
Even though she’s only 6 years old, Abagail prepares for another day at work.
"We like making money at our lemonade stand. We want it to stay cold so they can have cold lemonade on hot days,” she said.
A young entrepreneur who does the cleaning even the advertising. And it is paying off.
"We are making lots of tips in our tip jar,” said Abagail.
But a few days ago, Abagail and her friends were put out of business by a neighbor.
"We didn't have a permit so she called the cops,” said Abagail.
The police arrived and shut her down.
"We had to take down our lemonade stand,” said Abagail.
Abagail did not have a temporary business permit, which is technically a city violation.
"So we had to do something else to play,” said Abagail.
"I was kind of shocked because I didn't know we needed a permit for 6 year old girls to sell lemonade,” said K.C. Shaw, Abagail’s mom.
According to the city, they have to act on a formal complaint.
"Normally we don't get involved in it but once we do get a formal request we must take action,” said Al Hogrefe of the city of Naples.
So Abagail’s mom went to the city code enforcement office with wallet in hand, prepared to buy a permit.
"$35 every single time for a single use,” said Shaw.
Not wanting to be sour, the city played Mr. Niceguy.
"No we did not charge her, no,” said Hogrefe.
They did finally get the permit.
"Basically a blank check to have as many lemonade stands as we can stand,” said Shaw.
So Abagail is back in business and learned laws can be tough, even for a six year old's lemonade stand.
Shaw said the police officers who shut down the stand felt terrible, but they had to do their job. One of the officers even bought a glass of lemonade from Abagail.

Don't Worry!
I've been repeatedly told that the police will "Do the Right thing" when it really, really, really ,really matters.
Obviously this time wasn't it!
The neighbor who called the police needs a stick up their A$$!
But at least the ATF and the FBI weren't involved!
Thank God that there wasn't an allegation of "Child abuse thru too sweet lemonade!" made.
Then they would have come in via helicopters, a cattle trailer and Bradleys!
All in all a really good use of public servants, huh?
How ridiculous!
Where's the stick?

She should be glad that The IRS and OSHA weren't called.
- Have you filed for a tax id?
- Has your water been tested?
- I don't see a restroom...
- Is your stand located near a ramp so the disabled can be treated equally...
- blah,blah,blah...

Originally Posted By moneyshot:
G***amn nosy neighbors. Why do people do that kind of crap? Well it had a happy ending at least. I hope that little girl went and tacked a copy of her new permit to the neighbors door.

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I was hoping that it would get tacked to the neighbors forehead!!!!!
But Hey!
If the police will respond to a neighbors call about "illegal lemonade"........what will they do when the neighbor calls about your gun cases and ammo boxes?

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
But Hey!
If the police will respond to a neighbors call about "illegal lemonade"........what will they do when the neighbor calls about your gun cases and ammo boxes?

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Tumor.....what an appropriate name.
The answer is that my guns and ammo are not against the law. However, there is a city ordinance against operating a business like a lemonade stand without a permit.
Everyone did what they were required to do by law. You don't like it? Fine. Change the laws. But don't get mad at the police for doing their jobs.

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
The answer is that my guns and ammo are not against the law. However, there is a city ordinance against operating a business like a lemonade stand without a permit.
Everyone did what they were required to do by law. You don't like it? Fine. Change the laws. But don't get mad at the police for doing their jobs.

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
The answer is that my guns and ammo are not against the law. However, there is a city ordinance against operating a business like a lemonade stand without a permit.
Everyone did what they were required to do by law. You don't like it? Fine. Change the laws. But don't get mad at the police for doing their jobs.

I am not, nor have I ever been, a Nazi. Are you? No? Then lose the fake German accent BS.
We live in an orderly society of laws. As free men, we have the responsibility to change laws that we feel are unjust. If you are too lazy to work to change the bad laws, then quit whining about them.
In the mean time, law enforcement officers have taken an oath to uphold the current laws which are lawfully passed by legislatures.
Unless you think no one should enforce laws, what other recourse do you suggest.

Happened to me as a kid too. I planted a bunch of sweet corn and late in the summer I picked it and loaded it up in dad's pickup. Dad parked the truck out by the road and I sat on the tail gate. Cops rolled up and asked for my permit, at $1 a dozen there wasn't enough corn in that truck to pay for the permit.
Realistically, the cops were doing their job enforcing the law. Ordinarily, lemonade stands & the like wouldn't pose a problem but you have these traveling garbage a.k.a. flea markets and other people who have to go beyond reasonable and take advantage of the situation so they have to pass laws to keep the extremists at bay.
Anyway, if I were that little girls parents, I'd set up lemonade stands all over town, especially along the route the neighbor had to drive.

"Initially, always be courteous&polite, but have a plan to kill everyone that you meet" Bill Jeans, Morrigan Consulting

Its unfortunate but true- If you have a formal, you have to respond. However, Once the initial is handled, It might be a good time to thoroghly review the "neighbor" for any apparent (or less than apparent) "issues" in need of "action". I can almost always find something. Fair is fair.

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
We live in an orderly society of laws.
......law enforcement officers have taken an oath to uphold the current laws which are lawfully passed by legislatures.

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We live in "orderly society of laws"?
No we don't.
We have rampant corruption of the courts and the police. If had the time, I'd explain it to you but I doubt you'd listen.
Suffice it to say that I have FIRST HAND experience with corrupt judges and the equally corrupt "police" that work for them.
My wife and daughter have been harassed and brutalized by these people.
As for changing the laws, the legislators are in on the scam. It really IS simple. They don't care.
You probably don't care about my experiences and that's OK, but as I look at yours;
"Ex-Law Enforcement Officer"
I can see you are still running off of your former programming.
NO, I don't "buy" your line anymore.
"Cops shutting down a lemonade stand" speaks for itself.
Do you feel good about that?
I thought the "oath" was to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
But you would do it to keep your job, right?

Okay, Tumor. Calm down. This is called a "discussion Forum". We're just here to discuss things. No need to get angry.

Originally Posted By TUMOR:
We live in "orderly society of laws"?
No we don't.

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I do. Where do you live? Iraq? I obey laws every day. So do my neighbors. We have a nice, peaceful neighborhood. Don't you?
That is called an " orderly society of laws".

We have rampant corruption of the courts and the police. If had the time, I'd explain it to you but I doubt you'd listen.

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I would be glad to listen.

Suffice it to say that I have FIRST HAND experience with corrupt judges and the equally corrupt "police" that work for them.
My wife and daughter have been harassed and brutalized by these people.

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I'm sorry to hear this. But perhaps your bad experience causes you to paint with too broad a brush. I've met a lot of fine, honorable, honest police officers in my life. I will admit that I met a few bad ones, but they didn't stay in the business long. They were run out.

As for changing the laws, the legislators are in on the scam. It really IS simple. They don't care.

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Well, I probably share your suspicions about lousy legislators. But I work to run them out of office and elect good people to replace them. Sometimes we aren't successful, sometimes we are. I don't plan to give up just because of the bad ones.

You probably don't care about my experiences and that's OK, but as I look at yours;
"Ex-Law Enforcement Officer"
I can see you are still running off of your former programming.

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Who says I don't care about your experiences. I didn't say that.
And yes, I am an ex-LEO. I proudly served. And if you will forgive a little bragging, I was a good one too. But no one "programmed" me about anything. I served because I felt good men needed to do that kind of job. I still do.

NO, I don't "buy" your line anymore.
"Cops shutting down a lemonade stand" speaks for itself.
Do you feel good about that?

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Nope. Neither did the officers in the story. But apparently the system worked the way it should and the little girl got a free licence and everything worked out.

I thought the "oath" was to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
But you would do it to keep your job, right?

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That is indeed the oath. But I see no violation of that oath in this story. It is not unconstitutional to require a licence to operate a roadside stand.
If, however, when I was policeman, I had been given an unconstitutional order, say like, "Beat a confession out of this prisoner", I would have said, "NO". So would every cop I ever knew. Now maybe there are bad ones that would follow an illegal order, but why do you paint the good cops with the same broad brush as you do the bad ones?

Why is it that the police are quick to shut down a lemonade stand ran by a little girl, when there was a breakin in my sister's house yesterday, and the LEO's have yet to show up?
This is two different cities. Two different police forces.
BTW they didn't show up either when my nephew had his bike stolen four days ago.
I guess my sister should have told them there was an illegal lemonade stand.
Bilster

Originally Posted By Josey_Wales:
Its unfortunate but true- If you have a formal, you have to respond. However, Once the initial is handled, It might be a good time to thoroghly review the "neighbor" for any apparent (or less than apparent) "issues" in need of "action". I can almost always find something. Fair is fair.

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I like this attitude! If you're gonna follow the law, ya gotta follow the law.
Naples is one of the more affluent places in Florida loaded with retirees. I'd bet the complaintant was some old biddie that sits around looking out her window all day getting worked up about anything in the neighborhood that's out of order. I'd probably drop some D-Con in a pitcher of lemonade and then give her a freebie as a peace offering! [devil]
And on a side note, Old Painless's comment about beating a confession out of a prisoner reminded me of an old video game (called APB I think) where you drove around in a police car ticketing litterbugs. Every now and then you had to arrest the bad guy. The next scene had you in the police station with the suspect and you had to beat the confession out of him before his lawyer showed up. That was hilarious! Anyone remember that game?
-Nick Viejo.

It's a scam by the local legislators. They want a piece o the action(taxes or permit fees) no matter how small, in the name of regulating whatever. Did the kid have a health permit? When was it last ispected by the health department? Is the food being kept at the correct temperature? There are rules and regulations.
At his this rate the Lucy's lemonade stand in Peanut comic strip would be out of business. Good Grief Charlie Brown!

The bottom line here is a busy-body, bitter old neighbor using the system to rain on a little girl's parade. I have to wonder what would have happened if the cops had told the person making the complaint to take a hike?
Having been in the military I understand taking orders and having your hands tied by policies. I won't say the officers were wrong. They didn't have many options.

Welcome to Dar al Harb. Load up a few magazines, settle in, and make good use of your stay here. كافر

I saw a local cop ticketed cars parked at a Little League field. Common sense? Not when we have our orders......

"...My approach is to focus on firearms over women, because its hard to kill someone with a woman, unless you're talking about a slow, painful emotional death by nagging that eats away at your very soul from the inside out." -El Camino

I wonder what the little old lady would have done if the police told her to "F__ off!". I'm sure that's what most LEO's would be thinking, but when you have a jerk that wants to make sure you follow the law, what are you to do? I'd be pissed that the neighbor made me do that. I doubt any LEO would have shut it down without a formal complaint. Then you always have the people that say "I know the chief (or mayor)". If the complaintant is "technically" right, you pretty much have no choice. AND the kids ended up with a free license anyway (I'm assuming given to them by the SAME city - the people that were forced to shut it down helped to fix it). Kids in my neighborhood do it all the time - I haven't shut one down yet - I even bought some - geez.
Tumor, please offer up a suggestion of how you could have handled it SO much better and still kept your job.
CR

This is just stupid. Who gives a damn if a little girl is selling friggin lemonade? What kind of passive aggressive shit calls the cops on a 6 year-old?
The girl was not causing a problem, let her sell her damn lemonade and get on with your life. Personally, I would get in line to stick my foot up the neighbor's ass.
Sure we should up hold the laws, but come on. Use some common sense.

Originally Posted By Old_Painless:
But don't get mad at the police for doing their jobs.

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Ahh, the Nurumberg defense. Didn't work then, doesn't work now.[:O)]

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Actually, that is incorrect, notack. It has nothing to do with the Nuremberg defense.
The Nazis at Nuremberg were guilty of following [u]illegal[/u] orders. The judges ruled that it is no defense to say that you were following [u]illegal[/u] orders.
Enforcing a completely legal and constitutional city ordinance after receiving a complaint from an old biddy is not following an illegal order.
See the difference? I'm sure you can.

Just incredible! This really was technically a violation of the law and even though it's winked at all over the country, some sad creature felt they had to file a formal complaint. If the officers had FAILED to act, then some jerk running a major business without a license could have used that fact to get off themselves. I'd be willing to bet a LARGE sum of money that those cops that had to shut the kid down felt like crap the rest of the day (or don't you think cops have feelings?). I'd also bet that those cops would have wanted to be the first LEGAL customers of that little girl.
Lighten up on the cops. Lots of'em could see their own little girls (and yes, police DO have human feelings, a concept some non-LEO have a problem accepting) being crapped on this way by some busybody neighbor. And, yeah, I'd be willing to bet that the busybody doesn't get much slack from the next cop that catches him/her in a violation...must strictly enforce the law, don't 'cha know.

I thought the "oath" was to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.

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The "OATH" taken as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] is to uphold the [b]"LAW"[/b]. I took an [b]"OATH"[/b] to uphold the [b]"CONSTITUTION"[/b] when I enlisted in the Corp.
Enforceing the [b]"LAW"[/b] doesn't mean that you are violating the [b]"CONSTITUTION"[/b]. Even if some [u]backyard Lawyer[/u] says you are. Enforceing the "LAW" is sometimes distasteful, sometimes you don't agree with how the law has to be enforced. But as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] your job is to enforce the laws created by the legislature elected by the public to make the "LAW".
IMO the Officers and the City handled this incident quite well. But then I'm just another EX JBT to you.
Have a nice day.

"The 1911 was the design given by God to us through John M. Browning that represents the epitome of what a killing tool needs to be. It was true in 1911 and is true now."—Colonel Robert J. Coates, USMC

Originally Posted By CR_OPSO:
I wonder what the little old lady would have done if the police told her to "F__ off!".

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Formal complaint, personel investigation, and days off without pay in most agencies.
Additionally, in some states, it is an felony for a police officer to not act on a complaint. Until this year, in my state, I could be jailed for not acceptaing a citizens arrest, even if I knew the arrest was unlawfull. Thank god they finally changed that law.

Originally Posted By Josey_Wales:
Its unfortunate but true- If you have a formal, you have to respond. However, Once the initial is handled, It might be a good time to thoroghly review the "neighbor" for any apparent (or less than apparent) "issues" in need of "action". I can almost always find something. Fair is fair.

The little delinquent was selling crack at her stand. The concerned neighbor just didn't want those undesirable customers hanging around. [booze]

If it ain't broken, don't break it.

Hell even if gas was 35 cents a gallon, North Korea was a beautiful vacation destination, the Muslims loved us, and Jesse Jackson had become a conservative, it would still be time to buy more ammo.- gus

Originally Posted By SGB:
The "OATH" taken as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] is to uphold the [b]"LAW"[/b]. I took an [b]"OATH"[/b] to uphold the [b]"CONSTITUTION"[/b] when I enlisted in the Corp.

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My oath as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] was to protect and defend the Constitution.
This does seem like C/S, though I can understand that the officers had to respond to the call.
When I was on the streets (and I'm heading back to the streets soon), I made it a point to stop at every single Lemonade or similar stand that kids were running, and I always handed out cards and stickers and bought some of whatever beverage they were selling. I drank some really bad lemonade and iced tea, too, but I did it with a smile, becuase that's what people are paying their tax money for. As a soon-to-be street supervisor, I think I would have this call re-assigned to me. My first stop would be to buy a glass of lemonade, which I would cheerfully drink (or choke down, as the case may be). That would be immediately followed by a trip to the complainant's house and an explanation of the fact that I will not and can not enforce this particular law, because 6-year olds are not criminally responsible in our fine state (although we do have a similar local ordinance about permits), and the kids are not engaged in mentally unstable conduct, so I have no legal right to act against them. I might have a few other diplomatic statements to make to the complainant as well.
There will always be old cranky folks who make BS calls for service. Dealing with them properly is an art.

I just don't see that happening here. I would have told the neighbor if she wanted to file a criminal complaint here is the form. BTW, you have to go down to the court house and pay $15 and make out a statement. And no I'm not going to shut her down for not having a permit. She is six years old! Jeez! Then I would have gone and bought some lemonade from her.

Sure.......according to the "letter of the law" the lemonade stand was illegal. But whatever happened to applying a little common sense? For anybody who thinks it's okay to shut down a childs' lemonade stand, because a 6-year old didn't strictly follow the "letter of the law" by obtaining a business permit, here's an idea:
The next time you get pulled over for speeding, if the officer tries to let you off with a warning, you had better DEMAND a ticket. After all, it's the "letter of the law" now, isn't it?
Natez, you know......you're a straight-up guy.

Originally Posted By SGB:
The "OATH" taken as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] is to uphold the [b]"LAW"[/b]. I took an [b]"OATH"[/b] to uphold the [b]"CONSTITUTION"[/b] when I enlisted in the Corp.

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My oath as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] was to protect and defend the Constitution.
This does seem like C/S, though I can understand that the officers had to respond to the call.
When I was on the streets (and I'm heading back to the streets soon), I made it a point to stop at every single Lemonade or similar stand that kids were running, and I always handed out cards and stickers and bought some of whatever beverage they were selling. I drank some really bad lemonade and iced tea, too, but I did it with a smile, becuase that's what people are paying their tax money for. As a soon-to-be street supervisor, I think I would have this call re-assigned to me. My first stop would be to buy a glass of lemonade, which I would cheerfully drink (or choke down, as the case may be). That would be immediately followed by a trip to the complainant's house and an explanation of the fact that I will not and can not enforce this particular law, because 6-year olds are not criminally responsible in our fine state (although we do have a similar local ordinance about permits), and the kids are not engaged in mentally unstable conduct, so I have no legal right to act against them. I might have a few other diplomatic statements to make to the complainant as well.
There will always be old cranky folks who make BS calls for service. Dealing with them properly is an art.

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[Lucy Van Pelt voice]THAT'S IT![/Lucy Van Pelt voice]
That is the way it should have come down. That shows initiative, creativity, and compassion. You are a credit to all Law Enforcement Officers.
Thank God there are still members like you out there.
Bilster

Originally Posted By SGB:
The "OATH" taken as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] is to uphold the [b]"LAW"[/b]. I took an [b]"OATH"[/b] to uphold the [b]"CONSTITUTION"[/b] when I enlisted in the Corp.

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My oath as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] was to protect and defend the Constitution.
This does seem like C/S, though I can understand that the officers had to respond to the call.
When I was on the streets (and I'm heading back to the streets soon), I made it a point to stop at every single Lemonade or similar stand that kids were running, and I always handed out cards and stickers and bought some of whatever beverage they were selling. I drank some really bad lemonade and iced tea, too, but I did it with a smile, becuase that's what people are paying their tax money for. As a soon-to-be street supervisor, I think I would have this call re-assigned to me. My first stop would be to buy a glass of lemonade, which I would cheerfully drink (or choke down, as the case may be). That would be immediately followed by a trip to the complainant's house and an explanation of the fact that I will not and can not enforce this particular law, because 6-year olds are not criminally responsible in our fine state (although we do have a similar local ordinance about permits), and the kids are not engaged in mentally unstable conduct, so I have no legal right to act against them. I might have a few other diplomatic statements to make to the complainant as well.
There will always be old cranky folks who make BS calls for service. Dealing with them properly is an art.

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Be careful with that line of thinking natez. It just might win you some friends.[;)]
Seriously though, the problem in this case is not with the cops but with the lousy people that we elect into office.

Kimchi- A Korean delicacy. Put shredded cabbage in a jar, fill with water and spices. Put the lid on and bury in your back yard for a week. Open the jar and if you pass out from the smell, it's ready to eat. If not, bury for another week.

Guy who owns a pizza place in OR tardes street people meals for their time. They stand n the street and hold up a sign that advertises his place.
Pain in the a** do-gooder reports it to the government because the street people aren't being paid minimum wage.
End result..no more food for work.

Originally Posted By SGB:
The "OATH" taken as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] is to uphold the [b]"LAW"[/b]. I took an [b]"OATH"[/b] to uphold the [b]"CONSTITUTION"[/b] when I enlisted in the Corp.

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My oath as a [b]LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER[/b] was to protect and defend the Constitution.
This does seem like C/S, though I can understand that the officers had to respond to the call.
When I was on the streets (and I'm heading back to the streets soon), I made it a point to stop at every single Lemonade or similar stand that kids were running, and I always handed out cards and stickers and bought some of whatever beverage they were selling. I drank some really bad lemonade and iced tea, too, but I did it with a smile, becuase that's what people are paying their tax money for. As a soon-to-be street supervisor, I think I would have this call re-assigned to me. My first stop would be to buy a glass of lemonade, which I would cheerfully drink (or choke down, as the case may be). That would be immediately followed by a trip to the complainant's house and an explanation of the fact that I will not and can not enforce this particular law, because 6-year olds are not criminally responsible in our fine state (although we do have a similar local ordinance about permits), and the kids are not engaged in mentally unstable conduct, so I have no legal right to act against them. I might have a few other diplomatic statements to make to the complainant as well.
There will always be old cranky folks who make BS calls for service. Dealing with them properly is an art.

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Many times I have seen cops handle something like this in that exact manner. I wonder if it was attempted in this case...

"And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon." Re 13:11