(Original post by Foo.mp3)Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

At which point I turned round and said: "Do you mind?"

The guy was a young, bearded Asian man of medium build wearing traditional intricate white Taqiyah and Eastern attire, his counterpart was a stocky South East Asian with a similarly pronounced beard and distinct attire, but no Taqiyah

Initially the Asian guy didn't seem too bothered by my interjection (I think he assumed I didn't know what kafir meant and that perhaps I was complaining about him talking), but then I explained to him that he was talking within earshot of plenty of 'kafir'. He remonstrated that he was having a private conversation, so I reminded him that public transport is just that.. public

He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"

To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"

I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'

He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..

..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group

I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs

TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?

(Original post by Foo.mp3)Interested to know what the rest of you would have done in the same situation (hence poll)

So today I caught the bus (near Kingston/Richmond - quite a multicultural area but not all that many Muslims), waded through a small army of school kids and managed to nab the last seat on the top deck. I was sitting there for a little while, not paying too much attention to those around me, when I heard someone sat behind me use the word kafir (unbeliever) once or twice, and my ears pricked. I then heard:

'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

At which point I turned round and said: "Do you mind?"

The guy was a young, bearded Asian man of medium build wearing traditional intricate white Taqiyah and Eastern attire, his counterpart was a stocky South East Asian with a similarly pronounced beard and distinct attire, but no Taqiyah

Initially the Asian guy didn't seem too bothered by my interjection (I think he assumed I didn't know what kafir meant and that perhaps I was complaining about him talking), but then I explained to him that he was talking within earshot of plenty of 'kafir'. He remonstrated that he was having a private conversation, so I reminded him that public transport is just that.. public

He didn't back down so I told him "this is the UK, people don't go around speaking like that here"

To which he insisted that he was "English, British, a British-Muslim!"

I said, 'I'm sure you are mate, in which case you'll know that ours is a secular society. If you live in a multicultural society you need to show a certain degree of respect and sensitivity. You're surrounded by "kafir", you're talking one'

He said something like 'Do you know what, not even gonna bova' and piped down

I turned round and tried to cool down (this situation was pretty intense as you can imagine, turning to confront someone that is sitting immediately behind you). He muttered to his sidekick for a little while, I did my best not to listen and started to think perhaps it hadn't really been my business, heard a few more Insha'Allah's and then..

..eventually felt him tap me on the shoulder. He had calmed down and was clearly trying to make peace/make himself/Islam not look like 'the bad guy'. He tried to explain that he wasn't saying that all kafir are the devil, but that the devil is a kafir and that in Islam Muslims are thought of as being 'the highest level' and kafir is just a distinct group

I just let him say his piece, accepted his almost-apology, and explained that I wasn't trying to have a go at Islam per sae, and that "I would say the same thing to a Jew, a Christian, a Hindu but i'd be failing in my civic duty if I didn't say something in that situation", before turning back around. I got off the bus a few stops later but not before an asian schoolgirl who must have overheard our conversation from further back down the bus got off - she shot me a sort of deep, dark eyed, pensive glare as she went down the stairs

TL;DR An islamist was talking quite loudly about how non-believers are the devil's doing and I interrupted and asked him to tone it down - would you have done the same?

How's that an Islamist? 'Kafir' means non-believer and that's pretty much it. You don't know what the context was. Maybe he was trying to dissuade his friend from leaving Islam? In that context he simply is saying that it's the devil who's trying to make him do something bad(in his opinion). How that makes him an Islamist I don't know. I've said this before but why can't people like you just be objective ? People like always hear what they want to hear. There's plenty about every religion to criticise but you just seem like you're picking on Islam simply because you don't like Muslims.

As far as I'm concerned that they were having a private conversation and you rudely butted in. If anything you've made him feel rejected and attacked which usually makes people more radical if anything.

(Original post by zaliack)
I'm confused - is "Kafir" a particularly insulting word? I wouldn't mind being called a "non-believer", and would just ignore them if they said that being a "non-believer" is the devils work. By the very nature of atheism, we don't even believe in the devil, so it's as insulting as saying humans where gods creation

I understand why you interjected, however I think that claiming not speaking up would be "failing in my civic duty" is a little extreme! People can say what they want - public transport doesn't mean that everyone should have to stop expressing their views. Granted, his views could be construed offensively - but from what you said, I don't think they were. If he had been shouting, or addressing the entire bus, that would have been a different matter, but it was just a private conversation.

(Original post by Iqbal007)
Why is he labelled a Islamist? He's simply being a Muslim, trying to help his friend to stay on the path

Orthodox Muslim, who declares rather publicly that not subscribing to Islam is the work of the devil (by extension non-believers are ostensive puppets of the devil). Few would find use of the term Islamist contentious here..

(Original post by DK_Tipp)
Depends. I don't think there's a civic duty to drive religion from public life entirely

Me either

(Original post by rockrunride)
You've got too much time if you're caring about what a randomer says on the bus

Sitting on the bus waiting to get somewhere.. yes.. by definition I have time

(Original post by rockrunride)
There are nearly eight million people in London.

Are they all sitting behind me running their mouths about all the infidels who refuse to join their ‘club’? Nope

(Original post by zaliack)
By the very nature of atheism, we don't even believe in the devil, so it's as insulting as saying humans where gods creation

Hehe, yes but we know what is meant by that, it has sinister undertones and is indicative of total disrespect (see above re: puppets of some dark force)

(Original post by GPODT)
Lol I don't see why you are getting so emotional about this

Hyperbolism much?

(Original post by GPODT)
You ARE a kaafir. Kaafir is a word used to refer to non-Muslims. My cousin is a kaafir, its not necessarily an insult

I think you may need to re-read, the issue is not that he termed me one..

(Original post by GPODT)
I am pretty sure practising Christians advice one another to worship Jesus regularly so they do not apostate from Christianity which would mean they failed the test and would enter Hell (according to their beliefs)

Again, please re-read and see the part where I told the guy I'd say the same thing were he Christian, it'd still be uncooth, even in a society with Christian foundations

From what you said, I have the impression that he was talking to his friend, rather than making an observation about you specifically. If that had been me, I would have ignored it - it's none of my business what he says to his friends. If I got the impression he was referring to the people on the bus generally (including, or specifically, me), I would most likely have said something.

'Do not let the devil influence you. Insha'Allah. If you become a kafir it is the devil's work'

I don't see what the problem is, he wasn't saying anything to you, he was having a private conversation with his friend and you are a non-believe (i.e. a kaafir), so don't know why you've wasted your time making a thread about it.

(Original post by Architecture-er)
Well had they been Christian and saying those sorts of things I would've assumed that they were just a loony and ignored them (just as if a mad cat-lady had been muttering nonsense whilst sitting behind me), so I wouldn't have said anything to him.

But if he had been deliberately obtrusive and in-your-face then I would've told him to quiet down

I think I agree with this. Even though I'm Christian when I see them preaching in the middle of the shopping centre I always think they're a bit nuts.

However in this case I think you did the right thing because he was being offensive.

(Original post by Foo.mp3)
Orthodox Muslim, who declares rather publicly that not subscribing to Islam is the work of the devil (by extension non-believers are ostensive puppets of the devil). Few would find use of the term Islamist contentious here..

Then what is a Muslim?........very contradicting, the term doesn't exist in Islam or among Muslims, either your Muslim or your not, its a stupid way to describe a Muslim, then it would mean those who are Muslim are Islamist which basically entails that there all about Islam, its used as a negative word against Muslims despite the stupidity of the word..........plus it wasn't exactly public when 2 people were having their own conversation, plus reading your story, its quite clear that the conversation was private and not meant for the public, 2ndly the person stated that whether he would to lose his faith would be a consequence of th devil, and as a result he'll be a kafir. The young guy acted very pilotely and acted with well meaning inregard to his friend. Your just making a bigger fuss out of something so small.

(Original post by Foo.mp3)
Sitting on the bus waiting to get somewhere.. yes.. by definition I have time

And you've time now to report every detail on your experience, on a bus of all places? As I said, too much time, now if not then. It was an incident on a bus. I doubt that fellow thinks about it that much and you probably shouldn't either.

In London, the one thing the masses have contempt for on public transport, regardless of the reason [with a few exceptions], is busybodying. Londoners by their very nature are 'don't want the hassle if it's not important, I'll try and avoid it even if it is important' people. They're not likely to be won over by a fellow arguing about religion on a bus.

I had a particularly **** commute this morning during which a mother shouted 'be careful, there's a child here!' which elicited growls of annoyance from many of our fellow commuters. People don't like controversy on public transport.