Traditional Catholic Visualism

The Common Enemy

And Herod and Pilate were made friends, that same day; for before they were enemies one to another. Luke 23:12

If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you. John 15:18

Sodomites:

Subjectivists (Protestants):

Wild-eyed Caesoropapist Nationalist Schismatics:

Mohammedans:

Pagan Maniacs:

Child Murdering Feminists:

Fools:

And behold a great tempest arose in the sea, so that the boat was covered with waves, but he was asleep. And they came to him, and awaked him, saying: Lord, save us, we perish. And Jesus saith to them: Why are you fearful, O ye of little faith? Then rising up he commanded the winds, and the sea, and there came a great calm. Matt 8:24

Bravo! Papocaesarists pointing their fingers at Caesaropapists! It is about time there was some refreshing honesty rather than the sentimentalism of contemporary Ecumenism. To be fair though, I don’t think that Archbishop Maximos and those with him in the photo are actually “wild-eyed” even if they are protesting the visit to Greece of the Supreme Pontiff, John Paul the Great, whom they consider not only a schismatic but an archheretic as well.

Unlike you Atheists who never started any wars (forget the 100 million the Communists killed in the 20th century), nor took away rights from anyone (never mind the millions that lived under the yoke of that Enlightened Atheism). The 20th century was your age, the secular age, and it was the bloodiest mankind has ever seen. It makes the Religious squabbles of past ages look like a schoolyard fistfight. Atheism is the cruelest, stupidest superstition that has ever been.

A wonderful pictorial essay, Ken. You always find the most astounding images.

It is the knowledge that Christ was despised, tortured and killed, all of it permitted by God so that we be adopted by Him, that gives me the strength to function in a world so very hostile to God and to those who love Him. Without that, I fear I might despair. Those images of yours are frightening, especially for a mother.

1. Good post, someone needs to point out the reality of anti-Catholic bigotry.

2. The Orthodox, well, I’m just going to say that I can understand where they’re coming from. They think they have to defend Orthodoxy from the “heretics”. While I do not agree with them at all, I would hardly call our misguided brothers (who share Apostolic Succession) “wild-eyed”. They’re not. They’re just trying to preserve the Church as they see it. It’s not like we’re talking about Episcopalians here…

I recall Roman Catholicism has its share of the wild-eyed. As to the Athonite monks, the majority today are as compromised as Patriarch Bartholomeos, whose pro-abortion statements never prevent his being feted at the Vatican. I never understood that.

Yes, Patriarch Bartholomeos made some outrageous comments in San Francisco about abortion. This was during Patriarch Dimitrios’s trip. I am sure you can Google it. BTW, the Canons of the Orthodox Church prohibit a woman whose had an abortion from receiving Holy Communion for ten years. Go figure.

For most conservative Orthodox Athenagoras is as much an antichrist as any pope, perhaps worse. The fact of these sensational visits, which compromise the very idea of One Church in the minds of the Orthodox, is what the protests were about. No Pope had ever gone to Greece before for good reason. The late Archbishop of Athens, Chrystodoulos, was a consumate politician and he pushed through the visit fully aware of the popular opposition. He expected protests. The Greeks are noted for their hospitality but this amounted to an outrage. The novel idea of the two separated “lungs” only leaves a corpse. Of course Rome thinks differently. After all, the Supreme Pontiff, John Paul the Great, kissed the Koran. Where was the outrage? Where were the wild-eyed?

To be clear, the Orthodox position on abortion (contrary to the pronouncements of Bartholomeos) is well stated in an article by the late Bishop Gregory (Grabbe) of Washington. Some excerpts:

“The very earliest rules of the Orthodox Church, beginning with the LXIII Canon of the Council of Elvira, A.D. 306, and the XXII Canon of the Council of Ancyra, A.D. 314, deprive the woman who has destroyed a fetus of Holy Communion for a period of ten ears. The same provision is made in the XCI Canon of the Sixth Ecumenical Council and the II and VIII Canons of St. Basil the Great. In his VIII Canon St. Basil gives a succinct and precise definition of abortion: ‘Those who give potions for the destruction of the child conceived in the womb are murderers, as are those who take the poisons which kill the child.’ The only difference between our age and former times is that now this murder is performed not by means of poison but by means of an operation, and that as a result of improved medical techniques, an abortion is now less dangerous to the mother’s life.”

“In the case of a miscarriage the Orthodox Church has a special prayer for the woman who has suffered it. The prayer refers to her as ‘being in sin’ for having committed ‘an unintentional or involuntary murder.’ The idea is that she may have not been careful enough in her pregnancy, and may have caused the miscarriage and death of her baby through negligence.”

Patriarch Bartholomeos and several of his immediate predecessors have posed as ersatz eastern popes. However, Orthodoxy has never invested in any individual bishop the notion of blind obedience and when they veer from the truth they are required to be opposed. The heretic Nestorius was Patriarch Bartholomeos’s predecessor too.

I agree, but to be fair I have noticed what appears to be
quite a bit of dismissive hatred on-line by Roman Catholics. Simplistically it often seems that due to the instilled notion of acceptance of anything with Papal approval most knowledgeable Roman Catholics have been relegated to silent seething, especially during the post Vatican II period. The Orthodox have no such constraints and recall how St. Nicholas of Myra slapped the face of the heretic Arius at the first Council of Nicea and was exonerated in a vision of Our Lord and His Mother. It is said “hate the sin not the sinner” or more to the point “hate the heresy and not the heretic.” I am unaware of any protests when the Saudis built that enormous mosque within sight of the Vatican while the Saudis will not allow anyone to wear a cross in public much less build a little church. I have read the apologetics for the Inquisition, the exaggerations, abuses, etc. etc. Nonetheless it has to be said that before the time of “dialogue” people were prepared to burn and be burned because they actually believed something. Carrying a placard is considerably less costly.

but to be fair I have noticed what appears to be
quite a bit of dismissive hatred on-line by Roman Catholics. Simplistically it often seems that due to the instilled notion of acceptance of anything with Papal approval most knowledgeable Roman Catholics have been relegated to silent seething, especially during the post Vatican II period.

Sorry, Nick but you are conflating two different things here. For the most part your average Catholic knows little of Orthodoxy save for the fact that is what his Greek neighbors are…. The idea of online fomented hate… If anything it has been pass after pass after soft sell. 13 years ago when I was taking instruction at an OCA parish, I misconstrued the Catholic world as having darned near nothing to say to counter the claims of Orthodoxy… After all, they were writing very little, and saying still less.

But on the second score:

Simplistically it often seems that due to the instilled notion of acceptance of anything with Papal approval most knowledgeable Roman Catholics have been relegated to silent seething, especially during the post Vatican II period.

I am not even sure I know what you mean… Except to say that off the top of my head, it sounds like you spend a great deal of time interacting with very disaffected folks. Silent seething?

ken88, This is a pictorial blog which provides historical imagery. Prior to the pontificate of Benedict XVI it would have been considered charmingly quaint, nostalgic and even reactionary. Now it has a concrete relevance in educating a generation about their heritage which is commendable.

However, in the non pictorial conservative Roman Catholic blogs I have read there has been a uniform sense of depression, sadness and anger until Benedict XVI was elected. Not wishing to take what might be perceived to be cheap shots I will leave it to you and yours to conclude what caused this malaise. Silent seething? That certainly was the impression I have had for years. It seems to me that negative reactions would be natural under the circumstances and preferable to the careless indifference usually encountered.

I believe you when you say you are very favorable to Caesoropapist Nationalist Schismatics. Besides, the Orthodox certainly are photogenic. Best wishes.

I regret your befuddlement. Off the top of my head I expect the many impressions of silently seething Catholics comes from those who have been Catholic for longer than thirteen years, who have experienced the “before” and not only the “after.”

Off the top of my head I expect the many impressions of silently seething Catholics comes from those who have been Catholic for longer than thirteen years, who have experienced the “before” and not only the “after.”

Well I was not pre-conciliar, but I have been Catholic for 31 years. The misimpression of massive communities of the silently seething most likely come too much exposure to that often self-selecting group. More examples of these multitudes of the seething silent might well help.

But I will grant that if the preponderance of one’s exposure to Catholics comes from visiting a handful of blogs and forums, that would be an easy impression to get. Not unlike, I suppose, spending too much time with the online ortho-convert contradistinctionists who have vocally embraced the best (actually worst) of the Eastern tradition of anti-Roman polemic.

By definition the seething silent are silent. The blogs in question are only those few who bother to publicize their opinions. Until this pontificate resignation was more in evidence. I am not a sociologist but I suspect that since there are not “multitudes” in the churches there are slightly more than one would think who have been, how shall I say, discontented. A new day has dawned. Time will tell.

Wow, that was disgusting and bigoted. I personally like just grouping Hindus in wtih “pagans.” I’m Catholic and I am ashamed to share my religion with the likes of a bigot such as yourself. I hope you learn the spirit of brotherhood taught to us by Jesus Christ some day.

Answer: The Church.
Which Church?: Answer: Christ’s Church. I don’t condemn them as people, I condemn their actions. They’re the ones raging at Christ, I just put the spotlight on them. The pictures speak for themselves.

Hindus may be pagans, but then so, technically, are Jews. And actually, “Pagan” refers to those who are not “Christian solidiers,” though if I’m not mistaken the etymology of the word originates with the meaning “From the countryside.” Being rural, I suspect that makes me a Pagan Catholic? Sure…

BUT in modern society, Pagan is a title given to Wiccans.

Either way, etymology aside…

Jesus Christ taught us that we must fight our foes with love and forgiveness…not calumny aimed at the errant few fundamentalists of those cultures you’ve shown. I have had and still have wonderful friendships with my Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, and Jewish brothers and sisters.

I do not see you turning the other cheek, just spreading bigotry and hatred and then claiming the defense of “He did it first.” You should turn the other cheek, but you are obviously not Christian because you refuse this message.

I will not comment further, but by all means, keep up your most pathetic game of childish banter, while you continue to smear those of us who do believe in the messages of Christ and the Church by making us look like hate-mongers in our own right.

~Cat

PS- I never was riled up. People like you do nothing more than disgust me, not rile me up. I guess you could say your post brought me down because it disappointed me and made doubt my belief that Catholics are good and forgiving, and that we practice the teachings of Christ…because obviously people like you who call yourself “Catholic,” are acting anything but. You are not living up to the example of Christ.

PPS, Hindu is spelled Hindu. Please do not insult these people, many of whom are greatly peaceful and noble and abhor the actions of hate and violence.

Dear Holier than Thou (aka “Cat”): Pagan in the Traditionally understood manner applies to those that do not worship the 1 God. Historically Jews, and later, Muslims were not referred to as pagans due to their Monotheism.

As far as the bigotry, It’s very sad that cannot differentiate between “hatred” of people from criticism of their ideas. Nor did I judge their Religion, or intentions, I simply presented their actions.

I find it most Ironic that you attack, and calumniate me for not turning the other cheek.

Thank you, from one sinful Hypocrite to another! Now I know I’m not alone!

I am not spreading calmuny. I am saying all what I am saying directly to you. You are not directly contacting these people with your issues, are you? Calmuny is not bringing a complaint straight to the person who caused it.

However, you are right. As a Catholic, I should forgive you and pray for you, who would call yourself my enemy.

With that being said, I do apologize for my offense to you, and pray you forgive me for I felt I was only speaking from the teachings of the Lord as taught to me. I was taught that love, forgiveness, and submission to God’s will are the way.

I do agree that it is shameful how some of the above people had behaved, however they do not stand to represent all who they claim to represent, much like some of us Catholics do not feel we belong in the same group of Catholics who support hate mongering.

But I apologize for my offense to you, and again, said it only in my own zeal.

I do not know why you are so offended – I spoke only in truth…except when I lied and said I’d not comment further, and please forgive me that sin of lying. :)