How was HF supposed to pay for the pre-ordered devices to be built, if they didn't convert the BTC? Magical charity elves? Cargo cult ceremonies?

So if all the BTC was converted in cash to pay for pre-ordered devices, how would they ever be able to provide a USD refund?

They were never able to provide a USD refund for everyone. That was a lie from day 1 just like MPP and everything else.

Is it so hard to obtain the documents that contain the company's expenses? Because I really wonder how can they make so much money simply vanish. I refuse to think that HF spend ~40M$ on chips and board revisions and components.

How was HF supposed to pay for the pre-ordered devices to be built, if they didn't convert the BTC? Magical charity elves? Cargo cult ceremonies?

So if all the BTC was converted in cash to pay for pre-ordered devices, how would they ever be able to provide a USD refund?

They were never able to provide a USD refund for everyone. That was a lie from day 1 just like MPP and everything else.

Is it so hard to obtain the documents that contain the company's expenses? Because I really wonder how can they make so much money simply vanish. I refuse to think that HF spend ~40M$ on chips and board revisions and components.

if they paid for pre-ordered devices to be build, why didn't they ship?santa wasn't working that day, OR IT WAS ALL AN ELABORATE FRAUD and icebreaker is still complicit in that crime.

How was HF supposed to pay for the pre-ordered devices to be built, if they didn't convert the BTC? Magical charity elves? Cargo cult ceremonies?

So if all the BTC was converted in cash to pay for pre-ordered devices, how would they ever be able to provide a USD refund?

They were never able to provide a USD refund for everyone. That was a lie from day 1 just like MPP and everything else.

Is it so hard to obtain the documents that contain the company's expenses? Because I really wonder how can they make so much money simply vanish. I refuse to think that HF spend ~40M$ on chips and board revisions and components.

if they paid for pre-ordered devices to be build, why didn't they ship?santa wasn't working that day, OR IT WAS ALL AN ELABORATE FRAUD and icebreaker is still complicit in that crime.

YES IT WAS ALL AN ELABORATE FRAUD! YOU CAUGHT US. ZOMG HOW DID YOU KNOW? YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR US!

NO DEVICES WERE EVER SHIPPED. ANYONE WHO SAYS THEY GOT SOMETHING IS PART OF THE CONSPIRACY.

JUDGE MONTALI IS ALSO COMPLICIT IN THE CRIME. THAT'S WHY HE ALLOWED HASHFAST TO BE IN CHAPTER 11 INSTEAD OF CHAPTER 7. THE 12+ LAWYERS OF THE CREDITOR COMMITTEE AND US ATTY OFFICE ARE ALSO COMPLICIT.

LUKE JR, WHO SAYS HE RECEIVED A BABY JET, IS RUNNING THE CONSPIRACY FROM A KLINGON SHIP NEAR URANUS.

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

YES IT WAS ALL AN ELABORATE FRAUD! YOU CAUGHT US. ZOMG HOW DID YOU KNOW? YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR US!

Let's make a short HF recap. They cashed in what? 40M$? 50M$? They refunded under 500k$ (I think) and they shipped what? One Batch of miners? Where are the rest of the money? A 28nm maskset should be ~5M$ or even less. HF team was either a retard to sink all the money into useless shit or they found a way to siphon the money out of the company for their own benefit.

YES IT WAS ALL AN ELABORATE FRAUD! YOU CAUGHT US. ZOMG HOW DID YOU KNOW? YOU ARE TOO SMART FOR US!

Let's make a short HF recap. They cashed in what? 40M$? 50M$? They refunded under 500k$ (I think) and they shipped what? One Batch of miners? Where are the rest of the money? A 28nm maskset should be ~5M$ or even less. HF team was either a retard to sink all the money into useless shit or they found a way to siphon the money out of the company for their own benefit.

ZOMG YES YOU CAUGHT HASHFAST WITH YOUR SMART QUESTIONS THAT HAVE NEVER EVAR BEEN ANSWERED BEFORE!

IF ONLY JUDGE MONTALI AND THE 12+ OTHER SPECIALIZED LAWYERS WERE AS SMART AS YOU THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN ABLE TO FIND OUT ABOUT HASHFAST'S SEKRIT SIPHONED MONEY SINK.

YOU ARE TOO CLEVAR FOR HASHFAST. THE BANKRUPTCY COURT SHOULD HIRE YOU TO HALP THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE BLIND DEAF AND DUMB BUT YOU CANNOT BE FOOLED.

LET'S KEEP REHASHING THE COURT'S WORK OVER AND OVER AND PRETENDING THEY MISSED SOMETHING BECAUSE THAT WILL PROVE THE JUDGE WAS WRONG AND HASHFAST SHOULD BE IN CHAPTER 7 NOT CHAPTER 11!!!11!!!!11!!!11!

"The difference between bad and well-developed digital cash will determine whether we have a dictatorship or a real democracy." David Chaum 1996"Fungibility provides privacy as a side effect." Adam Back 2014

At the start of 2013 it looked like 10M, which led to a belief that nobody would get miners made on 28nm for a year, however, due to huge overbuilding of fab capacity, 28nm got suddenly cheap, not quite sure how cheap but by beginning of Q3 I think ~2M seemed to be a reasonable guesstimate, fire sale on 28nm. Which is probably what encouraged all sorts of clowns to take a punt.

Let's make a short HF recap. They cashed in what? 40M$? 50M$? They refunded under 500k$ (I think) and they shipped what? One Batch of miners? Where are the rest of the money? A 28nm maskset should be ~5M$ or even less. HF team was either a retard to sink all the money into useless shit or they found a way to siphon the money out of the company for their own benefit.

Your numbers are a bit off, but the order of magnitude of difference between what they took in and the cost to produce what we bought is still there...

My anger against what is wrong in the Bitcoin community is productive:Bitcointa.lk - Replace "Bitcointalk.org" with "Bitcointa.lk" in this url to see how this page looks like on a proper forum (Announcement Thread)Hashfast.org - Wiki for screwed customers

Let's make a short HF recap. They cashed in what? 40M$? 50M$? They refunded under 500k$ (I think) and they shipped what? One Batch of miners? Where are the rest of the money? A 28nm maskset should be ~5M$ or even less. HF team was either a retard to sink all the money into useless shit or they found a way to siphon the money out of the company for their own benefit.

Your numbers are a bit off, but the order of magnitude of difference between what they took in and the cost to produce what we bought is still there...

Well I pulled the numbers out of my belly because of my bad memory, but that's exactly what I was trying to highlight. That HF was a money black hole and this is only done by someone very very stupid or someone that had a plan to siphon money.

Edit: Btw there was a financial audit on HF? Or this is not done when companies declare bankruptcy?

Let's make a short HF recap. They cashed in what? 40M$? 50M$? They refunded under 500k$ (I think) and they shipped what? One Batch of miners? Where are the rest of the money? A 28nm maskset should be ~5M$ or even less. HF team was either a retard to sink all the money into useless shit or they found a way to siphon the money out of the company for their own benefit.

Your numbers are a bit off, but the order of magnitude of difference between what they took in and the cost to produce what we bought is still there...

Well I pulled the numbers out of my belly because of my bad memory, but that's exactly what I was trying to highlight. That HF was a money black hole and this is only done by someone very very stupid or someone that had a plan to siphon money.

Edit: Btw there was a financial audit on HF? Or this is not done when companies declare bankruptcy?

Yup this is exactly how I see it. HF really produced very little things of value in the end.

What was the percentage of customers that actually got a working product? 5%? 10%? 2%?

How was HF supposed to pay for the pre-ordered devices to be built, if they didn't convert the BTC? Magical charity elves? Cargo cult ceremonies?

So if all the BTC was converted in cash to pay for pre-ordered devices, how would they ever be able to provide a USD refund?

They were never able to provide a USD refund for everyone. That was a lie from day 1 just like MPP and everything else.

Is it so hard to obtain the documents that contain the company's expenses? Because I really wonder how can they make so much money simply vanish. I refuse to think that HF spend ~40M$ on chips and board revisions and components.

So based on iCEBREAKER's statement HashFast's customers were not customers but investors as their money was used to develop the chips for the company to sell right?

There is a big difference if HF actually paid for their chips with VC monies instead of preorder customer monies. This is just one of the wrong things about the business model. Much like BFL's...

Yup this is exactly how I see it. HF really produced very little things of value in the end.

What was the percentage of customers that actually got a working product? 5%? 10%? 2%?

Was there even a single customer that got all of what they purchased, including the MPP machines?

You could ask Cypherdoc he might know.

He supposedly got something. Not sure if he got MPP's though.

This company was one bullet I dodged as I was going to purchased two baby jets (or whatever they were called) in August 2013 and because one of my computers/wallets was acting up which disallowed me to go through with the purchase I never lost a penny to these thieves.

Yup this is exactly how I see it. HF really produced very little things of value in the end.

What was the percentage of customers that actually got a working product? 5%? 10%? 2%?

Was there even a single customer that got all of what they purchased, including the MPP machines?

You could ask Cypherdoc he might know.

He supposedly got something. Not sure if he got MPP's though.

This company was one bullet I dodged as I was going to purchased two baby jets (or whatever they were called) in August 2013 and because one of my computers/wallets was acting up which disallowed me to go through with the purchase I never lost a penny to these thieves.

The MPP was HashFast's attempt to make sure that their customers who got their hardware late could recoup the lost opportunity to mine BTC at a lower difficulty because they were having delays getting customer's their hardware.

This in itself shows that HF was looking at the amount of BTC customers paid in terms of payment...not USD.

iCEBREAKER can live in his broken reality but the fact that some US legal representative(s) do not see how the economics of Bitcoin works doesn't mean that what their ruling is right and just.

Everyday there are stupid judgements that are given in the US court system. And to take that as the benchmark of what is right and wrong is being ignorant.

Yup this is exactly how I see it. HF really produced very little things of value in the end.

What was the percentage of customers that actually got a working product? 5%? 10%? 2%?

Was there even a single customer that got all of what they purchased, including the MPP machines?

You could ask Cypherdoc he might know.

He supposedly got something. Not sure if he got MPP's though.

This company was one bullet I dodged as I was going to purchased two baby jets (or whatever they were called) in August 2013 and because one of my computers/wallets was acting up which disallowed me to go through with the purchase I never lost a penny to these thieves.

Lucky!!

After my own delay on paying I decided to wait until they had a product before I would consider buying anything.

After my own delay on paying I decided to wait until they had a product before I would consider buying anything.

Preorder bullshit is simply that...bullshit.

Actually the preorder model is bullshit because manufacturers promise something which they know it will never be possible. HF knew they will never be able to fully refund everyone in case something went wrong so they decided to go all in and promise a bunch of lies to get the maximum amount of money in one run so they can make them vanish. Just like BFL lied about a delivery date that was before the real chip tape out the same way HF was flashing the Uniquify shit (still in the OP) to later blame them on the fail.