Take a deeper look, and I think that they'll find that our struggles are directly related to the offensive line, and its inconsistencies it has shown throughout the year. I also question whether or not this guy has seen all of Rivers' starts.

I saw a dude at Chargers.com blaming Rivers for McNeill's struggles in blocking. Too funny.

Seriously, Rivers had guys open, but didn't have the time to find them. Does he need to play better? Of course, but the primary reason for his struggles is the pass protection.

VJ - and particularly Buster Davis - were open multiple times in the Tenn game. Davis' route running is impressive for a rookie. He gets separation quite a lot. Give Rivers a clean pocket and he'll find those second, third and fourth reads.

Rivers is getting rid of it too early way too many times. Just chucking it to his first read or dumping it on the check down.

The Stat Reading Ball Watchers has a new member .......

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That is one way to argue pretty much overwhelming and indisputable facts. Not a good one. But one nonetheless.

You guys crack me up with the ball watcher crap. If it makes you feel superior to call someone else a ball watcher go for it. You kinda always know you are on the winning side an argument when they start to attack the argumenter rather than the arguments.

That is one way to argue pretty much overwhelming and indisputable facts. Not a good one. But one nonetheless.

You guys crack me up with the ball watcher crap. If it makes you feel superior to call someone else a ball watcher go for it. You kinda always know you are on the winning side an argument when they start to attack the argumenter rather than the arguments.

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If you don't like it .... too bad.

Whining while reading stats is for the ball watchers, and you've got that label now.

Does Rivers need to get better? Of course. I've never said he doesn't.

Facts? Stats are facts? Every stat is based on what 11 guys do on a play, not one player. One guy gets the stat next to his name, but it's a reflection on the TEAM more so than the one name.

I saw an OL that couldn't block ****, and a QB who didn't have time on the majority of plays to even get to his second progression.

I also saw a QB who still faced a rush in the 4th QTR and OT who gutted it out on a bad leg and won the game. That's one hell of a FACT .....

I believe your argument is the top 6 are at the top not because they are effective quarterbacks but because they have better offensive lines than the bottom six, and that in effect the passer rating is not a valid measure at all of passer efficiency. Is this correct?

By the way Rivers has been sacked 20 times. Brady has been sacked 16 times and Romo 19.

We know they are both more mobile than Rivers so can you really say he is seeing any more pressure than these guys are?

John Kitna has been sacked 49 times. 49 times. Yet his passer rating is 10 points higher than Rivers.

Big Ben has been sacked 38 times and has a passer rating over 100, 22 points higher than Rivers

What other excuses do you have for him?

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Do they keep stats on QB pressures? Sacks don't hurt your QB rating. In fact, a QB's rating is completely unaffected by sacks. But if you throw the ball away to avoid a sack, that counts against your QBR. Regardless of how many times he's been dropped, it's obvious to anyone who's paying attention that Rivers protection has flat out sucked at times. Clearly, Rivers sometimes needs to beat the blitz with a throw. But too often this year, teams are rushing four and getting quick pressure on Rivers. That's a big reason why he looks jumpy in the pocket, because there's not enough room to get comfortable. Defenders are swiping at him, at the ball, diving at his feet, making it impossibe for him to step into throws.

Seriously, Rivers does have strong tendencies towards being nervous in the pocket, & especially in the kind of pocket our OLine has been providing most of the year. The two aren't a good recipe for success. And, as Shammy said, PR gutted it out in Q4 last Sunday for a good win.

Get some mean fat guys up front & you'll see better results from the QB. :yes:

Do they keep stats on QB pressures? Sacks don't hurt your QB rating. In fact, a QB's rating is completely unaffected by sacks. But if you throw the ball away to avoid a sack, that counts against your QBR. Regardless of how many times he's been dropped, it's obvious to anyone who's paying attention that Rivers protection has flat out sucked at times. Clearly, Rivers sometimes needs to beat the blitz with a throw. But too often this year, teams are rushing four and getting quick pressure on Rivers. That's a big reason why he looks jumpy in the pocket, because there's not enough room to get comfortable. Defenders are swiping at him, at the ball, diving at his feet, making it impossibe for him to step into throws.

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That's a key point. Teams are only rushing four and STILL getting pressure. That means that they're still able to keep seven guys back in coverage. When teams drop back like that, you need to give receivers time to get open, and your quarterback time to find them. We haven't done that CONSISTENTLY this year. I think that the Ravens game is a good example. I think that the offensive line did its best job all year in that game, and it isn't a coincidence that Rivers performed well as well.

By the way Rivers has been sacked 20 times. Brady has been sacked 16 times and Romo 19.

We know they are both more mobile than Rivers so can you really say he is seeing any more pressure than these guys are?

John Kitna has been sacked 49 times. 49 times. Yet his passer rating is 10 points higher than Rivers.

Big Ben has been sacked 38 times and has a passer rating over 100, 22 points higher than Rivers

What other excuses do you have for him?

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Could he be doing better, of course. But honestly, how many times a game does the guy actually seem to get enough time from the line to get the job done? The guy is constantly being rushed from somewhere, hit hurried, whatever. I don't know how many times a game I see a guy through the line like a hot knife through butter, Phillip does the best he can, but then everyone screams at Rivers.

Just because the play doesn't end in a sack doesn't mean that the guy is getting the time needed for the play to develop properly, and to be able to make his reads. If he is constantly making **** throws when there is no rush, then I would agree with you. But most of the time he seems to be running for his life.

Do they keep stats on QB pressures? Sacks don't hurt your QB rating. In fact, a QB's rating is completely unaffected by sacks. But if you throw the ball away to avoid a sack, that counts against your QBR. Regardless of how many times he's been dropped, it's obvious to anyone who's paying attention that Rivers protection has flat out sucked at times. Clearly, Rivers sometimes needs to beat the blitz with a throw. But too often this year, teams are rushing four and getting quick pressure on Rivers. That's a big reason why he looks jumpy in the pocket, because there's not enough room to get comfortable. Defenders are swiping at him, at the ball, diving at his feet, making it impossibe for him to step into throws.

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Well lets go ahead and calculate it.

The CITY (Completion, Interceptions, Touchdowns, Yards per Att.) of passer ratings is defined by the formula

C= (((Completions/attempts) * 100 -30) / 20) *100 / 6

I= (2.375-(Int/att)*20) *100/6

T= (TDs/att)*20*100/6

Y= ((Yds/Att - 3) / 4)*100/6

Lets say Rivers is 15 of 25 without hurries and 15 of 28 with 3 extra hurries a game than other QBs) Lets also say he had 2 TDs and 1 INT and 175 Yds and keep those constant in the calculations.

QB Rating without hurries 94.6
C= 25, I= 26.25, T= 26.67, Y= 16.67

QB Rating with hurries 84.67
C= 19.64; I= 27.68, T0 =23.81; Y= 13.54

Here we have definitively proven a heavily rushed Rivers is as good as John Kitna who takes three extra sacks a game.

Most if not all sports writers when it comes to the chargers are drooling moron idiots.

Its all about the o-line. The o-line gives Rivers time and Rivers is all pro. The o-line run blocks and ladanian is super super super man. He's already super man.:yes:

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Point proven as far as the OL goes. How many times have we seen LT shut down this year? By teams that when you see them a week or two later are getting gashed by dog **** backs.

Dielman has been a disappointment due to the amount of money we tied up into him. He doesn't play with the same mean streak or intensity as last year. Olivea sucked so bad he managed to get benched. Goff is an aging journeyman. McNeil- who knows what's wrong with this guy. Hardwick has been hurt.

The OL has been the #1 problem with the offense this year.

Remember '03? Everyone went on and on about how bad Brees was, when in reality he was getting killed every time he dropped back. It's the reason we drafted Rivers. Sure enough, '04 rolls around, the OL finds some cohesion, and Brees goes to Hawai'i.

It's just really strange. I thought that the offensive line would be even better this year, after having an entire offseason to gell together and get better. Obviously there needed to be some changes. Olivea for Clary was one. Hopefully they will get it together here at the end of the season. We all saw how the Colts defense got their act together last year, hopefully the offensive line goes through the same kind of transition.