And that's the part Blizzard will never condone. They want each spec to be viable as closely as possible on single target, so people can do their dungeons and scenarios and dailies at the same level as each other spec.

If there's going to be any balancing done it's going to be around single target damage, not cleave damage.

Blizzard already condoned it by giving us two specs and the ability to swap them between bosses. They have consistently proven that they do not mind different specs having different specialties. While all specs should be able to contribute a baseline under any situation, you as a player reserve the right to change specs if you are unsatisfied with that baseline.

Increasing single target damage only leads to homogenization; embracing specialties while ensuring that nobody falls below a baseline outside of specialties leads to spec diversification.

Blizzard already condoned it by giving us two specs and the ability to swap them between bosses. They have consistently proven that they do not mind different specs having different specialties. While all specs should be able to contribute a baseline under any situation, you as a player reserve the right to change specs if you are unsatisfied with that baseline.

Increasing single target damage only leads to homogenization; embracing specialties while ensuring that nobody falls below a baseline outside of specialties leads to spec diversification.

For the need of discussion we need to establish if you indeed mean you want Blizz to sacrifice single target output to improve cleaving. Because if you do then I'll restate it: Bizz does not balance around cleaving, but around single target. They will shoot for homogenization to a high level of equality between classes/specs and only then look at any diversity. Wishing Blizz to diversify to the level that you are forced to go to another spec for ANY type of content is a fool's errand; it will never happen. Some specs will shine at different niches, but that will always be a perk, and not their purpose.

You may think it's allright to swap between specs at the drop of a hat, most people do not think that way, and want their spec to be just as good as any other. This goes mostly for single target damage, as that is the bulk of what you do in the game. Purposefully lowering that to increase the specs use in raids (and only in some fights) that only make up a tiny part of the game will never happen.

i normally stay away form this sort of stuff, but i guess chiming in once in 6 years isnt too bad.
personally i think a modle like this could make people on both sides a bit happier as well as be
synergistic with the lore and playstyle of destro

chaotic flames deals immolates same dmamge but at double the tick frequency (37k per 1.5 seconds) for the same duration (15sec).
if dispelled the remaining damage of chaotic flames will be split between the dispeller and original target.
targets effected by chaotic flames take 30% increased damage from fel flame and chaosbolt.

fel flame now refreshes the duration of immolate, corruptions and chaotic flames.

immolate and chaotic flames can exist on a target at the same time,
more than one chaotic flames can be presant on a target(s) at once.

conflagrate works on both immolate and chaotic flames

cb base damage lowered for the qq'ers but with a full stack of embers there's still good burst

immolate gains pvp dispell protection and well as gets beefed up to actually matter in both pvp and pve

creates a mechanic that requires planning and set (1.5 sec immolate +gcd + conflag +gcd + 2sec CB)
~6 seconds of free casting + controlling a healer to not dispell immolate before it can be turned into CF

or if your at long range, possible chaos bolt and hope you can get immolate off before it lands

@bryanmathis: you'd force stacking 4 embers and then using them all at once, so the damage of the last 3 chaos bolts is increased by 30%. I don't think I'd like such a playstyle.

in my fantasy hypothetical land, my thing was that for pve you would have this scenario:

begin combat w/ a boss

throw up pot---> coe--> pop trinkets/ and DS--> immolate -->> chaos bolt (or conflag to CB)-- >> (immolate is now chaotic flames) --->immolate again as CF and immolate can exist at the same time-->> incin spam to build embers/conflag as needed---> fel flame to refresh CF and immo --> have another ember for CB, turns immolate into stack 2 of CF--->>

so you do end up spending embers to stack the damage of CF (if we assume that CF is allowed to stack, if we assume this happens at all) otherwise after the first CB, you just use fel flame to refresh CF and continue enjoy CB at full damage unless your dots fall off.

for pvp id imagine

immolate target--fear/interrupt healer--conflag--chaosbolt--kite using fel flame as main source of damage, try and force healer to dispell the constantly refreshed CF which will deal direct damage for you, chaos bolt to reapply or as opportunities present themselves

it isn't perfect or even that great, just imo a bit better than what we're faced with atm.

any suggestions as to what would make it (not that it would ever really happen) better for your personal play style?

For the need of discussion we need to establish if you indeed mean you want Blizz to sacrifice single target output to improve cleaving.

There should be a baseline single target damage that all DPS classes are capable of attaining. From that baseline, certain specs should excel at certain types of fights. A hunter spec might excel at single target above the baseline, a mage spec might excel at true multi target AOE, and destro spec might excel at cleaving.

Wishing Blizz to diversify to the level that you are forced to go to another spec for ANY type of content is a fool's errand; it will never happen. Some specs will shine at different niches, but that will always be a perk, and not their purpose.

Nobody should be forced to change specs unless they are in a cutting edge progression guild, but specialization can and should happen such that certain specs excel at certain fight mechanics. This is already the case. Destruction warlocks just need to have their specialization cemented. If someone wants to change specs between boss fights because it favors a certain fight mechanic then they have that option, and options are good.

Zumzum is an outlier, and not representative of the skill level of the majority of Destro players in the game. What is possible with ideal play is not possible for some or even most. You don't balance around the best of the best, you balance around the majority. Sustained damage is quite important in PvE, especialy MoP where the majority of bosses are based around long burn phases with some minor gimmick, instead of the constant tricks that we encountered in Cataclysm.
.

I seem to remember a 1% of hunters nerfing the other 99%. Hey, the original 99%!! Occupy Blizzard!

Originally Posted by Iry

There should be a baseline single target damage that all DPS classes are capable of attaining. From that baseline, certain specs should excel at certain types of fights. A hunter spec might excel at single target above the baseline, a mage spec might excel at true multi target AOE, and destro spec might excel at cleaving. Nobody should be forced to change specs unless they are in a cutting edge progression guild, but specialization can and should happen such that certain specs excel at certain fight mechanics. This is already the case. Destruction warlocks just need to have their specialization cemented. If someone wants to change specs between boss fights because it favors a certain fight mechanic then they have that option, and options are good.

This is a case where perception makes reality. If a spec is better for an encounter, why wouldn't you use it? You can be selfish and play the spec you enjoy, and in LFR that's all well and good, but even if you're not in a progression guild, you're in a guild that's plodding along and you're coming up to a new encounter that you need to do your best on, you're forced into the spec that works the best. Maybe you force yourself knowing that others are relying on you as much as you are relying on them, or maybe the people you raid with and leaders see that one spec performs the best and makes you raid as that spec, but one way or another, you're being forced into the niche spec. It becomes less of an option.

We'd like to think that it never happens, but it's the norm. We all know that all specs work, or are viable in one sense of the word, but as soon as it comes time to pull the boss, most people who take raiding even marginally seriously are going to pick the spec that works best. It's no longer an option at that point. That's why specialization can never work by design. At minimum it forces players into specific specs for fights, at higher levels it'll force a higher level of class stacking to exploit those specializations.