Wednesday

Flesh for Fantasy

QUESTION: Do you guys ever compare the women in your life to images you see in the media or perhaps to other women that you might see or meet in public?

This is something I'd like to know.

Sure, I can recognize handsome men when I see them, but I don't compare them to my boyfriend like, "oh I wish he had biceps like that" or anything.

Do you men compare women?

Curious.

Thanks!

CHUCK: So, anyway, the other Saturday, I was watching that Live Earth concert, and Alicia Keys was onstage. And for such a hot day, she had chosen to glam it up. She had a form-fitting burgundy mini-dress on, with some high-heeled pumps. And after observing how thick she was in the legs and thighs, I thought how cool it was that she hasn't taken to heart all that body-image crap that famous women fall prey to. And then I thought, she's doing a pretty nice version of Marvin Gaye's "Mercy Me." Then I thought, "She's sweating a little now. Interesting how it's collecting a little between her breasts." And so on...

Anyway, the point of that recollection is, mentally, I'm all over the place. I don't know about Garland, but that's me. My mind wanders a whole lot. And when it wanders onto women other than my wife, I tend to keep her out of it. That woman is my partner, my lover, the mother of my children. I have too much respect for her to involve her in any errant daydreams that I might have featuring Rosario Dawson, Vida Guerra, or the random Hip Hop Honey.

Basically, although I may might wish my wife was in the shape she was in five years ago (she'd probably say the same thing about me), I don't find myself making any Frankenstein combinations featuring her and any girls from Show magazine. I mean, fantasy's cool and all, but I've gotta live in the real world.

GARLAND: I'm a people watcher... and I love women. So, to me - I think I would have never been able to keep a girlfriend or get [and keep] a wife if I constantly wished they had Janet's abs, Alicia's eyes, Beyonce's smile, or Serena's ANYTHING. I would have never been happy and would have eventually gone crazy.

But that's me.

Some guys probably do look at famous women or women they see on the street and wish their ladies had this or that. Frankly, I think that's a little juvenile and stupid. Like Chuck, I live in the real world.

To me, I love the sexy legs and beautiful bodies of many of these celebrity women in the media today. I do! But, I'm a realist, and that is as far as the attractions go. I need far more in a woman than just a pretty face or a hot body, I need brains, integrity, a sense of humor, a sense of purpose, ambition and everything else that makes a woman special. It would be an insult to the women in my past and the Woman in present to wish them to be anyone or anything other than who they are. Shame on any guy that would.

It used to annoy me when my ex used to leave his King and Smooth magazines in the living room and then act like he read them for the articles. Or when he's just HAVE to comment on how fine/beautiful a woman was when we'd go on a date or watch tv. I know you look at other women, but do you have to put it right in my face?

After a while I started to question his attraction to me. Hell, I started questioning my looks. None of the women he commented on looked like me (light skin with long hair versus my chocolate tone and short 'do). Was I being too sensitive or insecure?

Actually, when I started dating my wife, we were in the store and I bought a Black Mens magazine (which is on par with King, etc.) and she gave me an odd look and I figured that maybe she didn't approve. Before I knew it, I was being candid with her right there in the checkout line. I told her that if that magazine bothered her, I wouldn't get it. But I told her that I'd probably get it tomorrow when I was alone.

I wasn't trying to be rude. I was being honest. I told her, that I liked the mag and yes, I liked the models. I made it clear that I loved Black women, all shapes, sizes and colors and this mag [and others like it] had great photos.

I also made it clear to her, that as a man I was VERY visual, and simply liked the photos! And, I made it a point to let her know that my heart belonged to her, I didn't want, know, or want to know ANY of the models in that book. I told her that those pictures were 1 dimensional and she was real and she was who I wanted.

Now, I wasn't completely oblivious to her concerns and I told her that if it really bothered her, I would stop buying those mags, but she accepted my explanation. I did scale those purchases back though, and I NEVER leave them laying around. And here it is 7+ years later and I still love to look at Show magazine and an occasional King magazine - YES for the models mostly, and on top of ALL of that -

MY WIFE IS STILL THE MOST BEAUTIFUL WOMAN IN THE WORLD TO ME! SHE IS MY BEST FRIEND, MY PARTNER, THE MOTHER OF MY KIDS AND MY EVERYTHING.

So, I just think men have to be aware and respectful of their ladies feelings on this matter. Men are visual creatures and women are emotional creatures, and these kinds of magazines can pull at both ends of the spectrum.

But, I'm certain that you are quite a beautiful sister, and I hope you never question that again. Thanks for reading!!!

Let's see... where do I start."Visual Cheating" huh? I'll just say that you must be a very special person to NEVER EVER EVERE EVER look at another man, assuming you're a woman and have a boyfriend or husband. Personally, I would worry greatly about a person that walked around all day with blinders on, too scared to look at another person you might think is nice looking. I hate to be rude but that sounds like some fake "high and mighty" nonsense.

I happen to have enough self control to think that some women other than my wife are attractive, and I certainly know that she thinks other men are attractive too. It's called being a grown-up with self control.

On the magazine issue - I don't bring home porn, so loosen the noose up a little bit. If my wife wanted to look a nudy books, that would be up to her. It doesn't mean she's going to run out and try to find and f--k these guys. Again, my wife and I are adults.

I'm not stupid, and I live in the age [just like you] of photo shop and things of that nature. Sure, it would surprise me if any of the photos in magazines for the last 7 or 8 years weren't touched up and edited at least a little. But again, so is EVERY song you've ever bought! So is every movie you've ever watched! So is every newscaster you've watched! Am I to assume that you have NEVER worn makeup or perfume? It's far from a crime to enhance something to make it more appealing. I hate to sound nasty - but stop calling these women fake and insulting them and their bodies, they have done nothing to you and nether have Chuck and I.

but stop calling these women fake and insulting them and their bodies, they have done nothing to you and nether have Chuck and I.

I find it insulting to photo shop pictures of perfectly normal women. Is not their cellulite and strecth marks beautiful? Are their breasts and hips not curvy enough? The would look much more real and natural without photo shop. Cellulite and stretch marks can also look sexy if you have the eyes to see it.

The women are not fake but their photos are. And so are the standards to which they are held. Let them be themselves in the photos and see how many magazines sell.

After awhile, I stopped caring what my ex looked at, then cared even less what my husband looks at. However, in appearance, I went from a man who had a keg for abs, to a man who had 6 pk abs.

How weird is it that the 6 pk abs having one gets pissed because I think both LL and The Rock are finer than frog hair?

At work, we get into these heated discussions about wives getting pissed off at husbands for looking. It seems like most of them are living in a dream world. They all know if their wives still looked like the woman they drool over, they'd be seriously posessive and paranoid. Some are still in denial that their babies permanently and drastically changed their wives bodies.

My husband and I celebrated our anniversary a couple of months ago. The card he bought me, was by far, the most exsquisite thing ever, to me.

In the card, he basically said that when I look in the mirror, he wanted me to see the beautiful woman he sees every morning.

I got so exhausted fighting back tears. I've never been one to accept a compliment, or even let one go to my head, but that just blew my mind.

okay, that's me above.. I'll try this again. Taking a deep breath over here. Let me begin by saying I like the style of the advice givers. Self respect means demanding things that others will tell you is outrageous, but in actuality these are the bare minimum requirements for a truly healthy relationship. You two understand that.

One thing I'd like to point out is we all have some sexual expectations from men..what we view as normal.- These will sometimes determine what a woman outlines in her bare minimum requirements.

1. About this comment: "My mind wanders a whole lot. And when it wanders onto women other than my wife, I tend to keep her out of it. That woman is my partner, my lover, the mother of my children. I have too much respect for her to involve her in any errant daydreams that I might have featuring Rosario Dawson, Vida Guerra, or the random Hip Hop Honey."

Let me just say that most women including myself want to be desired by their husband, they want to be sexualized, want to be a turn on for him- because that is a turn on for women. When someone else is fulfilling that role, they are stepping in our shoes. If that energy devoted to these magazine girls is somehow not up to par with the respect that you have for a wife and mother..to me, that view is a bit archaic, magazine girls require less respect.. this divides women into categories. I know your partner didn't get to be a mother because some camera and industry folks got together to provide the proper fantasy at the proper time:) No deal. This whole ideology falls way short of my bare minimum, lol. And, the reason I am sharing that is because of the compliment I gave in my first paragraph; women, unfortunately, are in need of a kick in the pants in regards to standing up for what they REALLY WANT. To the women who posted here: If this statement hurts you, or doesn't seem right in some way, like it did for me, then pay attention to that! Do not allow those feelings to be mollified. the good thing about this ladies, is you now know what you want in a partner. identifying this kind of ideology is key to setting YOUR standard. More on identifying likeminded personalities can be found on the blackgirlsrule blogspot. the post date is Oct 2nd.

2. Let's remember: There are many men, female readers , that do not ogle over pop culture figures (or masturbate to, or visualize themselves sexing). These types are going along different paths where none of this mindset is a norm that they consider applies to them. This does not mean that no man should admit a woman other than his wife is beautiful, ludicrous.- But, it does mean that you are not expected to settle for someone who spends his mental energy invested in other women, sexually.. IF that disturbs you. This is how some relationships work..but, be fully aware that "yours" does not HAVE to be this way. There are all types of men in this world. It's up to you to decide if you want one who at the very least respects the fact that you are hurt in this regard. but, in reality, if you are the type of woman who doesn't plan on imagining yourself sexing someone other than your husband, and you want the same treatment-it shouldn't even get to the point of you having to express discomfort. Like I said, tips on how to identify the right partner for you, if you're one of the posters who was bothered, these can be located toward the middle of that last blog post mentioned above. Evia's IR blog breaks it down too.

3. I'd like to offer some food for thought for the men and women . If you have not already seen the video linked below (black girl like me). I would like you to watch it, but first be sure to view it in the context of images men may or may not be wanting, images women may or may not be desiring to be. To me this bog discussion is a bit unexpected. My deal is one in which I don't engage with mainstream media venues, especially "urban" magazines and videos purposefully, as a reactionary position to the manipulation therein. The kind of guy who gets me is not imaginary, lol. He overcrowds the communities I visit, which focus on issues such as humanitarianism, travel, self healing through food as nutrition and spirituality, the environment, spirituality and celibacy (not necessarily church loyalty), animal welfare etc. Exploring new interests by researching points of view that are foreign- this will, also, open up your eyes to the plethora of men in this world who ALREADY agree with you in these respects.

here is the link on the effects of imagery..http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYX_Ql-3U10

4.I hope I haven't offended you two guys, I do think that as smart as ya'll are these ladies need to know that they can find the same good qualities you possess in a man who will not just begrudgingly agree with them here, but rather be inline with them on this issue from the start. To put it bluntly, some men just do not need the extra. They fill there time, energy, and minds differently. It hurts me to see these frustrated posts from women who obviously desire to persuade you, to make you the complete reality of what they feel is their requirement for respect, and thereby feel validated by your agreement with their first feelings. They need to feel most validated by their initial reactions, their preferences, and avoid deterring from that standard by being shown that they can (yes, easily) find the bond they REALLY want.

I am sure there are married women out there who fantasize about men other than their husbands. But, for those of us that are coming from a different place, let's be aware that there are millions of perspectives on sexuality, on pop culture, media consumption and it's effects, it's intentional effects, millions of views on marriage..so there are more than a few online communities where your type is talking about everything under the sun including singles meet ups for like minded people. I see it, daily. Letting your standards shape your interests will direct your attention to these types of people.

5. Even as a woman I have felt the need to see a beautiful brown beauty. I settled into viewing the most sexually explicit music videos because "hey, that's me!" somebody could see me, and that was a prideful moment, whatever the derision, as long as I was being seen. Participate in the cultures which edify you and your brown beauty, I want you to know they exist. You will attract someone who gives you what you are giving yourself. so what are you consuming? I, personally, believe that pictures are powerful. Thoughts are powerful.. You are drawn to what you picture, what you choose to put into your mind.

I was introduced to the versions of brown beauty that satisfied me completely only after I stopped compromising.

"How would you guys feel if your wives brought home mags of naked men with bigger penises than you to look at?...."

heheh- now that would be a fun experiment. Buy the mags and leave them open all over the house, so that the guy can stare at other guys dongs all day long. What's good for the goose is good for the gander??? LOL

WHO ARE CHUCK AND GARLAND?

This Blog was started by Myself and my good friend Chuck. We had grown tired of many of the widespread negative beliefs by many women including the ubiquitous, "All men are dogs...", "All men cheat...", and our favorite - "I know I can change him..."
We figured that there were enough people online and on the radio spreading misinformation - So, we decided to create What Are Men Thinking to spread common sense and TRUTH.
Over the years before our Blog, we had seen far too many women acting as their own worst enemies; denying evidence that was right in front of their faces for fairy tales and pipe dreams. We chose to throw a figurative glass of cold water in the faces of some of these women and to point them in the direction of the respect and happiness they deserved.
We wanted you ladies to read what we thought, ponder it, consider it and apply it.
As time went by, Chuck decided to pursue other interests, so I have tried to keep this Blog moving forward. I still believe there is a place for What Are Men Thinking, and I hope you agree.