Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

This is a discussion on Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf. within the Defensive Rifles & Shotgun Discussion forums, part of the Related Topics category; 7.62 is a great round and I love many of the rifles that fire it. The AR10 and M1A are two of my all time ...

Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

7.62 is a great round and I love many of the rifles that fire it. The AR10 and M1A are two of my all time favorites. They are great choices for defending stronghold (if SHTF) as well as all-around hunting round. They are hard to beat.

But if you're not defending stronghold, AR15 likely better choice. The lighter weight ammo, higher capacity magazine, and lighter weight of a carbine make it much easier to run and gun.

I wish you well. The M-14 is a great rifle, ergonomic, powerful and as long as you use the right ammo the OP rod will be fine. I tried the Battle rifle concept and kept coming back to the AR. I have been using them for over 30 years in the Army and LE, I know the system front to back and I am an armorer.

For me the AR is more nimble for CQB, where it is needed and when using the right ammo for the task at hand is devastating on bipeds. If I have a need for hunting or a 300+ yard shot I will use my scoped 30-06. On my short list is to build a 300 Blackout upper.

I respect your choice and decision that you made about choosing a rifle that you want to live with. As for me personally, I have some limitations that makes the M1A a poor choice for me. At the same time, however, I'm not sure you're being completely fair to the AR platform. If the 5.56 is anemic and you want a larger and harder hitting round, you can attain this with the AR platform - you don't have to abandon it completely for the sake of going to a larger caliber. LMT makes a .308 & Daniel Defense makes a 6.8 both in the AR platform. I haven't studied the topic in depth by any means so it may be the AR isn't much lighter when using .308 or 6.8 but I would think it would be somewhat lighter. There are also other features to consider when choosing a battle gun. The modular construction of the AR makes for reasonable maintenance and sufficient parts availability (when there aren't buying frenzies in place). In a SHTF situation are the parts for the Springy going to be available? This may be a toss up. There are so many with an AR, you probably won't be able to get parts for them either - who knows?

Making a major,drastic change in rifles for SD, and shtf.

I used to hunt up to coyote size game with a 22-250 which is a more power version of the 5.56. It was explosive in the amount of damage it did. The smallest gun I could legally use on big game was a .243. Most of the time I used a .270

In the military I never shot anything with a m-16. Guys said it was pretty effective however, and this was the days of the 55 grain load

The guns you chose are fine and have been around a very long time and I am sure will serve you well

I am not sure where every thought based ideation of CQB, or defending a strong hold comes from when we talk shtf , or battle rifles. In a CQB, I dont see whats wrong with shouldering the rifle and using the pistol.

The AR is a compromise. Its a lightweight platform, that is short enough to be pressed into service if set up with short barrel, and collapsible stock for close quarters, and it is almost enough to be effective at punching small holes out to 500 yards, if you can shoot that far. Most cant.

I would rather have a rifle that IS a rifle, set up for rifle duty. My pistol can do its part for the light work.

I respect your choice and decision that you made about choosing a rifle that you want to live with. As for me personally, I have some limitations that makes the M1A a poor choice for me. At the same time, however, I'm not sure you're being completely fair to the AR platform. If the 5.56 is anemic and you want a larger and harder hitting round, you can attain this with the AR platform - you don't have to abandon it completely for the sake of going to a larger caliber. LMT makes a .308 & Daniel Defense makes a 6.8 both in the AR platform. I haven't studied the topic in depth by any means so it may be the AR isn't much lighter when using .308 or 6.8 but I would think it would be somewhat lighter. There are also other features to consider when choosing a battle gun. The modular construction of the AR makes for reasonable maintenance and sufficient parts availability (when there aren't buying frenzies in place). In a SHTF situation are the parts for the Springy going to be available? This may be a toss up. There are so many with an AR, you probably won't be able to get parts for them either - who knows?

If you listen to the ProArms podcast where Mas Ayoob interviews the first responders to the exotic animal situation in Ohio (I think it was Ohio) when the guy turned all his wolves, big cats, and bears loose before killing himself, you'll find that many of the animals just absorved .223 rounds (oddly enough, one officer stopped a bear with a single shot from his .40 Glock at very close range when surprised).

That was one of the reasons I went with a .30 caliber round in my SD carbine, choosing an AK. I went with an AMD-65 variant with the 12" barrel plus the 4" brake to make it all legal. I've never served our country, and had no loyalty to one platform over any other. I just looked at reliability of the platform and the power of the round. I've put nearly 5000 rounds through it without a hiccup, and it's surprisingly accurate (granted, a tricked out AR will most likely be more accurate, but this thing is not far behind with my abilities). I am pretty familiar with the ballistics and result of the venerable 30-30 Winchester, and the 7.62x39 is very similar.

Interesting thread! I don't have an AR, but I do have a 5.56 (Sig Classic). I keep going back and forth between light/heavy rifle for HD/hunting/perimeter defense so I definitely appreciate the insight given here! I have a .30 cal. hunting rifle that prints just over an inch at 300 yards with annoying regularity. I love my .45s and I've got sufficient 12 gauge coverage for a whole host of targets. :) I'd love to find THE ideal all-in-one, one-size-fits-all platform. I haven't seen one in my 54 years on the planet and doubt one exists. Someone mentioned a .45 carbine. Several friends own that setup and it will do just fine out to about 50-75 yards on two-legged and small four-legged targets (hell on wheels for steel plates too!).

I love the M1A and M-14 platforms. However, I think it's a bit late in the game for me to consider trying to sell my entire package (5.56, ammo, mags) and change to something like a PTR or an AR-10 (even though I would REALLY consider that...). Financially, I'd do OK, given today's political climate (rifle/mags); ammo - not so much as 7.62x51 is significantly more expensive. My Sig is a beast, weighing just over 9# with a loaded magazine (it's the original 2007 design w/ collapsible stock) - I can empathize with the weight comments. I definitely cannot afford to add to my inventory - only substitute. This topic is timely for me too so I will lurk in the shadows here and glean the collective wisdom of the team.

I am with you Glockman.
The idea behind the M16 was to have a light enough rifle for battle, to inflict as many wounds on the enemy, be it in the form of kills, wounds or maiming.
It was not too terribly good at killing swiftly, but eventually.
Therefore, I came to the conclusion a long time ago, a rifle in .223/5.56 was probably not going to be in my safe anytime soon.
If you have one for 3-gun, or competitive purposes, they are acceptable.
As far as rifle hunting for deer, I will stick with 30-30, 7mm Mauser, 7.62x39.
(anything bigger than those are even better) I just don't have them.

I would rather die with good men than hide with cowardsIf you want to make God laugh, tell him your plans.
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."

I have some ARs and a basic M1A. Neither platform is going away in favor of the other. If I barricade myself in my room during a home invasion, the AR is going to be pointed at that door. At 15 feet, the 75 gr Hornady TAP rounds are going to be better than any handgun, and if I tried to use a 7.62 NATO rifle I don't think my neighbors would appreciate it when the bullet zipped right through the intruder and into their house. If there is ever a real catastrophe, rioting or something....well then the M1A would likely be a happy companion for me. When I go deer hunting, my .30-06 comes with me, and a .223 is unthinkable to me in such a role as well. I think you'll be quite happy with yours, they really are awesome rifles.

I don't know if maybe I missed it or what, but how are you planning to set up each rifle?

Not sure if any rifle caliber is all that dependable for one shot stops. My first deer took a 180 grn softpoint through the heart and still ran. This year I placed one in the heart , it ran I shot twice more hitting the heart area again and finally the third shot passed through lung and broke a leg before exiting (30-06 rifle for both deer).
Point is sometimes it will drop them in their tracks (as my second deer ever shot did) and sometimes they don't. .223 will kill as well, though maybe not quite as effectively.
My last though , I hope Springfield builds your rifles well enough to serve you , as it seems some have reported QC issues with the newer rifles( compared to older models).

I have a Mini 14 set up for home defense, mostly because my wife can use it better than our other options.

But, for anything else, I bought a Marlin 336 in .30-30. I would love an M1A, but I just cannot justify the price. The Marlin is much less costly, mounts a scope more easily, and is also more "PC." Of course, it does not have the ballistics of the .308 at extended range - but I cannot see farther than 120-150 yards around here anyway. The mag capacity is less, but you are able to top it off on the fly. Mine wears a butt cuff with an additional 10 rounds of 170 gr JSPs.

For those on a budget, the Ruger Scout rifle is a great option as well - though more expensive than the lever gun.

A training guru on another forum that was working with Mexican counter-narcotics police summed it up thusly...when dealing with felons in vehicles, .45 ACP beats 9mm; a 5.56 carbine beats any handgun; and a 7.62 x 51 battle rifle beats 5.56.