This is a good idea only if they tune up sleep spell resistance significantly, because if each mage takes 4 to 5 rounds to kill, they can always quickcast a sleep spell or stop movement spell on you every fight. this also will create a huge problem in keep siege, it will be almost impossible to shoot someone on the wall to death, and no assassins will be able to kill those mages on the wall before guards get to them.

Tanks also need to be able to sprint faster than mages, archers and healers if that is in, they already have enough problem killing people that run away the way it is now. They will have more problem if damage is tune down.

Until they find a way to twist thing around so that the issues above is resolved, tuning down damage is bad idea.

Overall, I am greatly in favor of increasing the duration of RvR battles significantly. However, the entire RvR game would need to be rebalanced in light of this change. Archers and Assassins would still need to be able to accomplish their mission. Casters would still need to be lethal without be overpowered. Much as I think that somehow increasing the duration of RvR fights is Mythic's only real hope for fixing RvR in this game -- I don't think they'll do it.

I don't think the damage needs tone down, they probably just need to tone up those defensive skills, make parry, block and evade work better, if that is done, rvring will be more of a test of skills.

If a tank charge after a mage, the mage can either mezz him or root him, if that fails, the mage will have to run or he will die in two hits.
If a tank charge after another tank, the fight will last for a while because each one of them will have a good chance of blocking or parrying each other's attacks.
when it comes to tank vs archer, either tone down arrow damage, or make the tank parry and block against range attacks more efficiently.
Assassins will still have a chance of killing archers and mages, but if he goes against a tank, most attack will be parried or blocked after the inital strike, so he will have to think twice before attacking.

the only problem that remain is magical damage, right now there is no counter against that, but they are adding resist buff in the next patch, let's see what happen when that comes in.

I would really like to hear mythics views on this matter. I want to know the real difference between PvE and PvP...some numbers, how does our AF/hp/resistances compare to that of an even con mob in PvE, why are we able to hit each other for insane amounts of damage yet cant do the same to Mobs? Are the resistances that they have given us that screwed up?

All I can say is.. no way..
Nerf everyone to help melee?
Try boosting melee instead.
Or have everything slower (course even then assassins will be screwed.. but that's normal, we get hit by almost every bad side-effect)

assassins will have a better chance to evade too, and then you can use your 4 chain combo as you see fit.

you can still kill mages and archers the way it is now, but when it comes to going against tanks, you can last longer than 2 hits, you can then change poison weapons or use whatever tricks you have to get out of that situation, it will be more of a test of skills, it will be more fun for everyone.

don't tone down damage, leave it the way it is now, but tone up defensive skills, make parry, block, evade work better, imagine that two fighters block, parry and evade each others attacks until one finds an openning, they probably need to circle each other to try to use those side and back styles, those who focus in weapon skills, like the berserkers will have better chance to hit, but those who focus in defensive skills, like paladins, will block and parry more often, assassins and archers will have a better chance to evade attacks, and use whatever tricks they have to get away.
And as for mages, they still can use spells to mezz and stop movement before their enemy get close.

The next patch is going to have resist buffs it should be interesting I am playing a Cleric who will get some and will surely test them out.

Why not allow resistances up to 50 percent . Would surely add an interesting twist to RvR.

Not sure what max resist is nowadays. i have not seen beyond 22 percent though on any of my characters.

What exactly is resist supposed to do. Personally i think it should have percentage of dmg resist on dmg spells equal to resist percentage(maybe even like half or all of the resist percentage towards a total resist as well then the dmg resist if not totally resisted ) and then percentage to totally resist like mez and stun etc according to resist percentage. I hope it is configured that way.

also, I think everyone will be happy if they make those protecting skills work better, for example, if a fighter type with a shield do a /guard on a mage, he should be able to block any physical attacks(range and melee) that is targetted toward him, and the mage, make it so that there is a slight penalty when he needs to protect two people, but still that will fix the problem with mages dying too fast on the battlefield.

don't tone down damages, it is ok the way it is now, just make our parry/block/evade/ guard/protect work better then everyone will be happy. Rvr will be more of a test of skill when that happens, people will group more and use strategy more, If some dumb mages want to go rvr alone and he died too fast, then he is just asking for it.

" Mythic I will make sure this post never leaves this thread until a moderator locks it or you fix RvR! "

This is an indication that this thread is becoming nothing but a whine feast. You can't just cry about I want this and I want that without worrying what kind of impact it will have in the game, you can cry all you want but I don't think mages are getting their plate armor, I kind of like wanderingsoul's idea, tone up defensive skills for melee class, and give them the ability to protect the mages, aren't you the ones who tell the archers to find a group? why do you want to wandering around alone in the frontie now? is it because you are almost invincible with your bladeturn, your absorption spells and your crits now?

true, but most people back down after they realize what kind of impact this will have(that is, give mages a chance to cast sleep spells on them every single fight), only those with sleep spells insist on the idea.

I like wanderingsoul's idea, I do want the battles to last longer, and I think tone up defensive skills and give warriors abilities to protect the mages will make that happen.

If everyone can take more damage, you nerf everyone with a ranged attack. Despite incessant whining about an extra 20-100 critical damage every 10 spells, more damage against faded grey enemies, and a 0.2 second decrease in cast time from a dex buff, I STILL can't get anything close to a kill on an equal con melee with my runemaster. Bolts don't hit jack, I don't have time to get more than 1-2 DD's off after the bolts (if he is running normal speed) and that's if I engage at max range and no one disturbs me. Rooting is pointless unless I luck out and find a paladin, everyone else has ranged weapons and can kill me before I get to bolt range again. This all assumes NO ONE else hits him and the root stays in effect (yeah that happens often, sure glad they nerfed root and put it on a timer).

And yes, I should be killing equal con tanks at max range. That's what damage mages do, right?

I don't mind a battle lasting longer per say. But the tactics used by a damage mage in PvE are not possible in RvR, due to root issues/nerfs and player intelligence. You need to retain the ability for a mage to relatively quickly kill an equal con tank.

Mythic had the choice between nerfing sleep spells or nerfing damage. They decided to nerf sleep spells. So there it is.

Although I play an assassin and this will gimp me badly. Perhaps Maybe leave CS alone? Don't know. 1/2 damage would be fine though , people would last twice as long as they do now. THat wouldn't be too bad. 30 second fights , Icould deal with that.

do you realize that this will make climbing up the wall pointless? do you realize that this means you will probably get sleep spell or root spell cast on you every single fight? do you know that is means hacking someone with your sword while he runs from one keep to another and you still can't kill him?

Cry Baby is a prime example of what happens when you cry about your class long enough.

Dude STFU Mythic just found your pacifier in 1.46A and B. If anyone should bitch it should be scouts right now. Mythic promised them Longshot/Volley bow skills, tracking, perception, reconnassiance skills, and special arrows. Hunters and Rangers both have a spell line and an escape spell so they have not near the bitch. If your going to debate this with the fact they do a lot of dmg from range then consider this: Personally i think they should not get stealth but get camoflauge. Also if Mythic toned dmg down they would not be such a nuiscance given these modifications!

<<<Cry Baby is a prime example of what happens when you cry about your class long enough.

Dude STFU Mythic just found your pacifier in 1.46A and B. If anyone should bitch it should be scouts right now. Mythic promised them Longshot/Volley bow skills, tracking, perception, reconnassiance skills, and special arrows. >>>

nah, I don't think scouts need longshot, volley and tracking, just give them 100 more hp at level 50 and 2.2 skill points and they will be fine.

Scouts do not care about the dmg they are doing so much. They are playing a boring class which was promised alot during beta.

Rogues are done, done, and done. Now its time to start giving other classes some attention!

I have to laugh though when i read the guide that came with this game. Runemasters will be getting set traps. LOL. Why not make them fly to.

Lets not stray from the subject though! I have never played a game with this frustration level amongst players. Mythic remains oblivious cause they are not feeling the pinch yet (Talking about the bottom line here). You know the game is pretty bad when people are trading their accounts for EQ accounts. Face it Mythic your game is too damn time consuming. People do not enjoy dying in a few seconds in RvR ending up at their bind spot taking a half hour to get back to the frontier where the action is and die again in a few seconds and repeat. Or how about logging in and spending over an hour to try to find a group for exp. Lovely travel times in this game. Your horse routes were not enough. The game is so damn time consuming and consider the fact that it uses up an entire computer (since you cannot alt tab like you could in AC). People who have lives (Thanks for pointing this out Sanya I was not aware of this distinction (get some fucking compassion!)); Face it everyone has lives and the constant repetative mind numbing mob exp and item camping bullshit along with all the other time consuming crap is beginning to take its toll. I could not be more serious when I say it would be very easy to create a MMORPG where time consumption is not the central theme and where time spent is much more enjoyable suspenseful and worthwhile!

One could easily rant about this game the way Sanya did about being a guide in EQ and feel much more justified in doing so. This game will probably amount to something around the time Shadowbane comes out and by then they will have pissed off too many people for it to even make a difference. For instance I played yesterday and was in a group for a few hours expin (killing the same fucking mobs over and over and over and over, etc.. and so on), well in a pull the group ended up dying because the scout went to LD LALA land and ran off into a mob while we were fighting a group of 4 purple con mobs. Needless to say we fought valiantly but every single one of us ended up dying except the minstrels which used speed to flee. Well upon rez the mob returned and killed some of the players twice more (one stated he just lost 6 hours of gameplay in a matter of a few minutes; he was so pissed he logged right there). I died twice (thankfully it was the lower exp death since I had just dinged) and the 3rd time I ran so I did not die. The group was so disgusted that it disbanded and either logged or went to do something else. I went out to RvR; Now RvR is the same thing over and over and over. Those that have the initiative win more times then not. One boring yet overpowered strategy is to zerg rush. If you have the speed, the numbers, the levels you can just run down groups of people as if they are the grass and your the lawn mower. I can remember people cussing, people totally fed up with RvR and how ridiculous it is. Mythic if you only knew the grief people experience while playing your game!

My 2 cents, although it's a lot more expensive than that. I have never been "one shotted" by an archer, I am an Albion Paladin, lvl 46. On the other hand, I have been one shotted by one caster class or another in my days of RvR battles. I have found that even though my resists are now all around the 25% level, I get hit for 1500+ points each time. I am happy for those people who have reached lvl 50, and that they enjoy this game as much as I do.

In response to the post about archers being nerfed, if the cooperation level in this game were increased, you would not need to melee, you would have tanks there waiting for them. This game is full of the cliche "rail-gun snipers" who solo, with no cooperation. I admire the skills of archers, in all realms, yet, with cooperation of a few of your friends would yield much greater rewards.

I feel my major functions as a pally are to protect our casters, rez the fallen, and finally to inflict minor amounts of damage upon members of the other realm.

I hit with a 2hand sword for roughly 200-300 pts (even con) and anywhere from 50-100 on orange cons. Even though I am "even con" for level 50's they do at least 5x the damage to me with ONE spell. That's 5 swings for me to inflict 1500 pts of damage, I do not think I have ever lasted 5 swings in one battle.

I really agree with Psiodon's idea for reducing the damage in RvR. When I first saw this game, I saw grand battles like those in movies such as Braveheart and Gladiator. Yet, as of now, I have yet to see a battle of that scale. These would be possible with less damage (the dreaded nerfing), but I feel that making the battles longer will make it more fun for everyone.

I understand that on the battlefield there are two types of people, the quick and the dead. But it seems now we rush quickly into battle and end up dead.

Last night in Emain yellow con casters nuked me for over 350 while yellow con archers were hitting me for low 200's. Melee was getting me for less than 50 with the occasional hit near 100. I hope last night was a fluke but there were very few skirmishes with melee and I didn't encounter any high level melee. I suppose the lack of melee is the the obvious outcome of the current, dismal state of RvR.

I sure miss the skirmishes where melee would charge from both sides, AE spells were flying and we actually had time to flank or dark in and back before it was all over.

How about they just let you get back to the action faster? Let people bind in keeps and in EACH keep put a dungeon (under the keep, the entrance would be in the keep) that has good xp and good loot for the level. The keep nearest to where the other realms port in would have the highest level dungeon (40-50 or 45-50 or something) and scale down as you got closer to your homeland. This would both make keep taking valuable, as if other realms took your keep they could maybe get a Realm Bonus on EXP they earned in the keep they took. It would also (if the dungeons were good enough) take away the monotonous NPC killing that taking keeps is today, and would make it harder. Just my idea.

Also it should alert everyone in the dungeon if the keep comes under attack and they should have some way of getting up quickly, maybe a popup box that asks if they want to teleport up? Something like that.

Also maybe they should make only certain keeps bindable in, or make bindstones in random places around the frontier. Well, not random, but not too close to a fort. And they could be controllable by whoever has the fort that controls the bindstone. If Hibs had Crimm and it's keep that controlled it was Crimm, only Hibs could bind there.

I'm afraid I agree. The one time my Cleric went into RvR she (and everyone else in our group) got 1-shot'd. It really isn't very fun to run 1/2 hour to get into a frontier zone and then have everyone die in less than 10 seconds.

Im not claiming to know what the answer is.. but what I do know is the following.

Many people including friends have left or are about to leave because of the way RvR is put together. You have to remember..what else is there to do at lvl 50? They can add all the dragons they want and think up 150 different ways to attempt to kill them but its not gonna fix RvR. Those of you who dont support a change have definately not played the classes who are lacking out there or have felt the grief of laying face first in the dirt with a complete bar of power or having never swung your weapon. You cant sit back and say hey my class is working great now everything is fine leave it alone. Thats not how it works. Mythic had to choose between damage reduction or nerfing sleep spells? rofl are you on the dev team to know this friend? They nerfed sleep spells because of the constant emails and posts just like this one, to FIX RvR. I will continue this post and more posts, and emails until mythic does something to make RvR enjoyable for EVERYONE.

It's really too bad the casters have had a much louder voice. If you notice what has happened out there with the last patch, melees have become worthless. Every change thats been requested by casters is the ability to kill a melee from range before he can even swing. Currently, if a caster is at max range and starts unleashing nukes, the melee has no chance. I've been getting hit for 450-700 lately -- at level 46. That's broken. Plain and simple. I am totally for the idea of toning down damage accross the board. Lets assume you can't solo in RvR anymore, boohoo.

Its in the best interest of the game to extend the length of RvR battles. Lowering the total damage is a step in the right direction. Someone might want to revisit the mez issue as well. 1 minute is far too long. I'm not alone when I say this, but I've watched more RvR battles go down than I've participated in.

I am totally amazed there are players who think everything is fine the way it is. I cannot even remotely relate to this point of view and would EASILY nullify it in a debate head to head!

I have to laugh at the resist buffs that were in this patch today. Mythic you have no real insight into what is really going on in this game do you? The resist buffs are a joke and I will not even consider gimping myself for something that is not even fuctioning properly let alone how little the overall resist would be even if I maxxed my enhance line!

Guys face it RVR DMG needs toned down big time! Myabe it will happen maybe it will not lets just say we were witness to PvP at its worse, I do not see how it could get any more harsh then this. Then again we have the new RvR server coming, yeah it could get worse LOL imagine losing exp over and over!

"Every change thats been requested by casters is the ability to kill a melee from range before he can even swing. Currently, if a caster is at max range and starts unleashing nukes, the melee has no chance."

And why do you think this is? Let's look at the other side of this coin, shall we?

When a melee gets into melee range with a cloth wearer, who do you think wins almost every time? That would be the melee. We can't get spells off, because you interrupt them and we can't take the hits because we wear cloth. And we certainly can't win in a straight out melee contest. Note: I'm not saying that any of this should change...casters shouldn't be able to melee well at all.

We HAVE to be able to kill you at range because we can't kill you up close.

Or would you prefer that melees own the game and be able to close on any caster and kill them in melee?

I'm all for toning down ALL damage in RvR. I'm also all for adding collision detection. Do these 2 things and you're well on the way to fixing RvR - which it sadly needs.