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none of those places here will even grant you an interview unless you're at least in the top 10% of your class unfortunately @ Penn.

I think you might have your Penns mixed up -- the above stat seems right for Penn State, but I'm pretty sure that the OP is attending the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, which is an Ivy League school ranked #7 (of 200+) in the country.

I think you might have your Penns mixed up -- the above stat seems right for Penn State, but I'm pretty sure that the OP is attending the University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia, which is an Ivy League school ranked #7 (of 200+) in the country.

No, he's not mixing up his Penns. Getting a job as a lawyer (hell, ANY job, let alone the "holy grail" jobs in Big Law) is very very competitive. There are a LOT less spots available and it is highly competitive.

OP, you're hearing from actual practicing lawyers in the city where you want to practice that you need to have good grades. Relying on rumors and other talk that median grades will serve you fine is something you do at your peril.

Honestly, the way your posts have come off are kind of off-putting. Perhaps it's just an issue of reading without the context of voice, but you're coming off kind of high and mighty, "I go to Penn law so they'd be lucky to have me in the slums of Pittsburgh at a big firm or with a federal judge no matter what my grades."

I wouldn't give up on pursuing Big Law if I "only" had median grades at Penn, but having the best possible grades in law school is never bad advice no matter where you go.

Incidentally, I do think many local firms are interested in diversifying their hiring, meaning they want to hire some people from non-local law schools. On the other hand, I also agree they are simultaneously doing less hiring as they are also getting more interest from people attending top non-local schools. So it has in fact gotten more competitive to get such slots.

As you can see, firstly it helps to be local,& secondly that it matters less what school you go to then how you do there (though of course between equal candidates, its going to help you going to a more highly regarded school).

As you can see, firstly it helps to be local,& secondly that it matters less what school you go to then how you do there (though of course between equal candidates, its going to help you going to a more highly regarded school).

Also, note that those numbers are from the 2008 hiring class. Three years later, big law has much smaller hiring classes.

As you can see, firstly it helps to be local,& secondly that it matters less what school you go to then how you do there (though of course between equal candidates, its going to help you going to a more highly regarded school).

I know nothing about the topic, but just from reading this post, it confused me that you used these stats to bolster an argument that it helps to be local. Just using these numbers, this firm hired 21 people from universities not in Pittsburgh, compared to only 12 from local universities.

Honestly, the way your posts have come off are kind of off-putting. Perhaps it's just an issue of reading without the context of voice, but you're coming off kind of high and mighty, "I go to Penn law so they'd be lucky to have me in the slums of Pittsburgh at a big firm or with a federal judge no matter what my grades."

If that is your attitude, it's not going to go over very well.

I'm not hearing that at all.

Also, FWIW, HW, I have a friend who graduated this year from a top 14 law school, who was not in the top 10% of his class, and who will return full-time to the Big NY Law Firm where he worked while he was in law school after he finishes a year-long clerkship in another state.

I know nothing about the topic, but just from reading this post, it confused me that you used these stats to bolster an argument that it helps to be local. Just using these numbers, this firm hired 21 people from universities not in Pittsburgh, compared to only 12 from local universities.

I just meant you have a higher probability of being hired there if you went to Duq. or Pitt compared to any other schools looking at recent stats.

No, he's not mixing up his Penns. Getting a job as a lawyer (hell, ANY job, let alone the "holy grail" jobs in Big Law) is very very competitive. There are a LOT less spots available and it is highly competitive.

Okay, I guess I'm just an idiot and not basing my assertions on dozens of statistical studies I've seen that clearly indicate between 60% and 70% of Penn students are hired by NLJ250 firms every year. Obviously this number has probably gone down in the last year or two, but the fact remains that Penn is never lower than #5 on the list of highest % employed in Big Law directly out of law school. And of the 20-30% who aren't hired by Big Law, many would have been eligible to do so but decided on federal clerkships, prestigious government positions, etc.

I don't have any stock in Penn Law whatsoever, so I have no reason to puff these stats up. If you honestly believe that you need Top 10% at Penn to have any shot of Big Law, you are just demonstrably wrong.

And no one in this thread is suggesting that the OP not strive for exceptional grades. But the fact is that only 10% of students are in the top 10% of the class, so there is a 90% probability that OP will not be one of them...And if that overwhelmingly likely scenario plays out, I'm suggesting that he shouldn't lose all hope -- in fact, he's still in a better position than the vast majority of law students.

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