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Although this is somewhat tedious, it's been fascinating as well, especially in reading the fierce disputes, pro and con, between knowledgeable and experienced shooters. In reading all the TWELVE PAGES of comments following the StrategyPage article, I find a large number of complaints, disbelief, etc., as to the point of the article in chief.

This was a very pertinent comment:

In first person accounts of every war I've ever heard of, this sort of stuff is always a factor. It doesn't matter what the attack is made with. One Congressional Medal of Honor recipient (posthumous) was in a foxhole with other soldiers when a grenade was thrown in. He sacrified himself by throwing himslef on top of the grenade, with results all of you can probably guess. As he lay in the foxhole dying another grenade was thrown in. And he was sufficiently not-incapacitated by a point blank handgrenade detonation into the torso to flop over on top of it, too.

The point is well made by FBI researchers in the following article (www.thegunzone.com/quantico-wounding.html) : "The will to survive and to fight despite horrific damage to the body is commonplace on the battlefield, and on the street. Barring a hit to the brain, the only way to force incapacitation is to cause sufficient blood loss that the subject can no longer function, and that takes time. Even if the heart is instantly destroyed, there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support full and complete voluntary action for 10-15 seconds."

Part of the problem is that our expectations shape our perceptions. If you're carrying a full-caliber M1 Garand and shoot a German SS trooper in the torso and he keeps coming you think. "Damn that was one tough, Nazi b@$t@rd." If you are carrying a light-weight assault rifle and shoot a Jihadist in the chest and he keeps coming you think. "This M-4 is a piece of $h!t."

The site above goes into a lot of the psychological aspects of knockdown. The state of mind of the victim has an impact on their actions much greater than the impact of the bullet. Many victims of shots by .22 longrifle go down and into shock even though their wounds are not fatal. On the other hand vitims of point blank handgrenade detonation into the torso sometimes retain their ability to function.

Which is to say, extremely lethal wounds which will certainly cause death may not do so in an instant, or with the first hit, in time to prevent the wounded party from continuing to return fire.

The complaint about the firepower of the 5.56 round is that at ranges over 200 meters, center of mass aimed hits do not immediately incapacitate the target, who continues to fight (even as they may be bleeding out to a certain death). Also, at closer ranges if the round hasn't begun to yaw and tumble to exponentially cause a huge wound from fragmentation, and if no bone is hit, it can do a through-and-through flesh wound of limited lethality.

Something I didn't know was cited: that Petraeus was hit by an accidentally discharged 5.56 round at about 40 meters, in the side of his chest. Dr. Bill Frist (later a GOP senator and Senate leader) performed a 5-hour surgery on him. The comment was, well either that was a weak round, or a very tough Petraeus, and they chose the latter explanation.

Well our resident leftists can proudly say they were pimped ... again ... by the thieving, lying thugs in the Obamedia.

Desperate to use this tragedy for political gain and ban these inherently EEEVILLL AR-15 rifles ... which oddly enough is a weapon ideally suited for defending "WE THE PEOPLE" from an oppressive state ... it turns out that no weapon was used in the shootings other than pistols, which for this purpose would be the weapon of choice.

So, what are we left with?

El Dubb Dubb was, again, correct.

Snoopy, again, obediently swallowed the spoon fed lie he was told to believe by the Obamedia.

Sofa spent weeks, again, obediently defending the lies spoon fed to him by the Obamedia.

it turns out that no weapon was used in the shootings other than pistols

If it 'turned out' that way, someone should tell the medical examiner. He was quite clear in his press conference that 'all of the bodies' he'd examined so far (7 of them) were all slain with 'the long rifle/arm/gun' (forgot the term he used and agreed to upon reporter query). Multiple shots, 2-7 per individual, solely from the Bushmaster. So on what are you basing this claim? That now they say the only guns found on the scene were the (now said to be four) hand guns?

In what way was the accurate video taping of the medical examiner's remarks, which I've accurately characterized above (easily found, I've seen them everywhere) part of Obamedia lies?

BTW, you remember how you said the Bushmaster's ammo was illegal to use for deer hunting, and unsuited for larger game?

Hannity had on an NRA spokesmodel world shooting champion demonstrating shooting with various arms and sized rounds. After shooting the AR-15, she remarked that its adjustable/collapsing stock allowed her FIVE YEAR OLD NEPHEW an easy use of that rifle of hers 'to harvest his first deer.'

If it 'turned out' that way, someone should tell the medical examiner. He was quite clear in his press conference that 'all of the bodies' he'd examined so far (7 of them) were all slain with 'the long rifle/arm/gun' (forgot the term he used and agreed to upon reporter query). Multiple shots, 2-7 per individual, solely from the Bushmaster. So on what are you basing this claim? That now they say the only guns found on the scene were the (now said to be four) hand guns?

In what way was the accurate video taping of the medical examiner's remarks, which I've accurately characterized above (easily found, I've seen them everywhere) part of Obamedia lies?

BTW, you remember how you said the Bushmaster's ammo was illegal to use for deer hunting, and unsuited for larger game?

Hannity had on an NRA spokesmodel world shooting champion demonstrating shooting with various arms and sized rounds. After shooting the AR-15, she remarked that its adjustable/collapsing stock allowed her FIVE YEAR OLD NEPHEW an easy use of that rifle of hers 'to harvest his first deer.'

Sandy Hook Elementary School shooter Adam Lanza armed himself with hundreds of bullets on Dec. 14 before he entered the Newtown school. But he also did one more thing.

He put in a pair of earplugs.

Investigators don't know whether the earplugs are significant to their probe, but they have speculated as to whether Lanza used them because it was a habit from shooting at gun ranges, or to muffle children's screams during his shooting rampage.

It is one more strange detail left behind by the strange, rail-thin 20-year-old.

"It's just weird [that he popped in earplugs] given what he was about to go do," a source said. "It's not like he had to worry about long-term protection of his hearing because he had to know he wasn't coming back out of the building."

As police wrap up at least the crime-scene portion of their investigation into Lanza's murderous spree that left 26 people dead in the school, including 20 first-graders, the earplugs are not the only evidence that shows Lanza might have carried habits either from the shooting range or the virtual world of video games into his real-world massacre.

Lanza changed magazines frequently as he fired his way through the first-grade classrooms of Lauren Rousseau and Victoria Soto, sometimes shooting as few as 15 shots from a 30-round magazine, sources said.

More than a week after the shooting, investigators were still finding bullets under doors and in carpets and walls in the school as they tried to match the casings to the magazines.

Investigators are aware that frequent reloading is common in violent video games because an experienced player knows never to enter a new building or room without a full magazine so as not to risk running out of bullets. This has led them to speculate privately that this might be a reason that he replaced magazines frequently.

Investigators have not said how many shots Lanza fired with the Bushmaster semiautomatic rifle after he entered the school by firing half a dozen rounds through the glass at the school entrance. Sources said that he fired approximately 150 rounds during the shooting spree.

Besides the earplugs, he was wearing all black clothes under a drab olive green utility vest with pockets filled with 30-round magazines for the Bushmaster.

Lanza left a shotgun, capable of firing 20 rounds, in the trunk of the car. [ ie what you saw in the vid link you posted.]

What you are claiming is that this mentally impaired individual, who has planned this slaughter, goes to the school with the WRONG AMMO!
They found that at least 150 rounds were fired. Not bad for someone shooting with a pistol.

Q

Remarkable.You leak a story, and then you quote the story. I mean,that's a remarkable thing to do

Dear leader forbids you knowing the truth, so do not read the following

Au contraire! I have heard of this '4 handguns only' (with him) claim (from NBC reporting), as I referenced directly in my response. As the link itself says, there are contradictory claims all over these details.

But you take anonymously sourced cites from FEDERAL LE, FROM NBC, to be the opposite of controlled media? Apparently you do, and why isn't that a mistake?

The 'left the Bushmaster in the trunk' story appears false because the video of the clumsy and untoward handling of the long arm in the trunk, against the forensic rules of handling evidence, seem to show a shotgun, not any kind of AR-15 variant.

And you cannot have missed the medical examiner's contrary claims before the cameras, based on his own examination of 7 dead people.

This is all admitted in your own linked article:

The correspondent makes it clear over and over again that he confirmed this information with federal and state officials. Now, a lot of media reports contradict this one, but somebody’s lying. The report that an ‘AR-15-style’ assault rifle was in the trunk of murderer Adam Lanza’s car is up for dispute as well. If one examines footage from police breaking into Lanza’s car, one sees police clearing a round from a “long gun of some type” that does not appear to be ‘AR-15 style’ or ‘assault-style.’

True. So is this now month-old claim from NBC (older, actually), still anyone's story or not?

Apparently, although it was long reported he had the two hand guns only for that kind of sidearm, it was ramped up to 4 to make it plausible that so many rounds were fired in so short a time frame as claimed.

And you buy this changed scenario out of a grudge you hold with some people you don't even know? That's not wise.

Have either of you ever even fired a gun ... the ignorance on display in this thread is astounding.

What does that have to do with anything?

You still haven't commented on the vid that I posted, which shows how to make an AR-15 a fully automatic by using a rubber band...or any of the other inconsistencies I mentioned like having the WRONG ammo.

Q

Remarkable.You leak a story, and then you quote the story. I mean,that's a remarkable thing to do