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As for my content, I'm glad to accept Prophet's proposal, if he were to use my map for RD. Given what it's currently done for BFNP, and the fact that job and RL at the moment don't give me the slightest possibility for contributing anything, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Hey Nicolas

Thanks for replying. It would be cool if everyone involved who still has an active account threw their two cents in as well.

Hellscrag wrote:Okay Prophet, I'm on my way to being convinced.

There's another substantially completed map in BfNP to which the "icy" theme is key, and that's fashahhh's icy vale. It could be converted, but I think it might lose something in translation.

The frozen river and the textures would need to be changed, but we are using distance fog for the terrain zones anyway, so the ghostly look of the high walls would be preserved, if Fashahhh accepts.

Hellscrag wrote:As to my town map, I suppose it doesn't have to stay icy, although it might be nice to include the icy version as a bonus map. I don't think its adaptability stretches to relocating it outside a mountainous region, though, as the terrain is key to the design.

As long as you have the original .unr, it won't be going anywhere. The terrain would not be changed of course since there would be no need to change that. It will actually come down to texture changing I think more than anything, and considering some of the interaction you do with Nali I could certainly find a way to include a "safe" town somewhere in the section.

Hellscrag wrote:I've just had a look through the maps that I have on my hard drive. Of those that have been substantially progressed, I can get all of them working except for Kaka's, which depend on TCO files that I don't currently possess. Two of the maps unfortunately exceed the node limit when fully rebuilt, although could possibly be split into sublevels. Nicolas' map is split into two versions, with the more recent versions missing the opening areas (they're not hidden, they're just not there for some reason - possibly as those starting areas depend on old versions of our texture packages, which had different names, but that could be fixed with some care).

Hmmm. We could get Kaka into the conversation here since he's a modeler for RD too. See how he feels about it. If we divy everything up he might want to keep the level for TCO, and I feel it's important to state that whatever is done with the remains of BFNP all mappers involved may want to keep their original work for one reason or another. Which is why everyone needs to get a word in.

As for the two levels that exceed the node limit, they will need to be split or cut down for sublevels, yeah. Which maps are they btw? Anything missing from any of the maps can be added by myself, and I want to express that I wouldn't be asking anyone to contribute more than just the .unr. Or to say it better, nobody should feel as if that by agreeing to this they will be required to continue mapping work on levels they haven't touched in years.

Also, something else I should mention...there was also some other content we managed to amass for BFNP. I know a lot of it was left on the cutting room floor, or simply never got touched. But if everyone is on board with this I can find ways to merge as much as I can. For instance, the EAR could certainly be added to the weapon pool, pending alterations on our side. I really don't think we got a whole lot more done in regards to models, did we?

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Maps - I would envisage continuing my own myself, if at all possible. I would agree that we should try to contact mappers before using their unfinished content, but I would argue in favour of going ahead and using it if they can't be reached. They were, after all, originally working on those maps for BfNP rather than for themselves.

Over node limit:
- Waffnuffly's cursed town - this could probably be fixed by separating off the end cave area of cutting part of the map.
- Wael's dead mines - more problematic as it has an uber-grand cave running all the way through it, into which the rest of the geometry is built. However, I suspect the node limit issue results in this case from the cave itself being too high-poly. It could possibly be replaced.

On the edge of the node limit:
- My icy town - just about manageable.
- My coastal fortress - workable if we lose most of the detailed battlements in favour of a plain parapet (except perhaps in the first area, where the battlements make a worthwhile impact).

Other content:
- Textures: McFarrel is still contactable and will be fine with us using them.
- Weapons: The EAR is fully-functional barring some bugs to do with the powerups. There's also no mesh for the powerup inventory item. Unfortunately we never got the Crossbow mesh off SnipaMasta before he left.

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Honestly, I don't really care. In my opinion, though (and this is generally serious, as my dear little heart yearns for it) as many little changes and adaptations in all of the maps and other content, either selected to be used or dropped, should be recorded somewhere after RD's release, just so we can "remember" BfNP. Some people may miss out on the choice to quit the pack itself so that the maps could be used in RD, like creators, and then they come back and don't know what happened, like if they play RD and notice something one of their team mates did for BfNP. Not and obligation, I know, but for some of us ignoramuses (not all of us are such), we might want to know about all of those thing that we had never heard of or saw before.

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I forgot to mention music in my summary of extra non-map content that was created for BfNP.

We had lots of incredibly cool stuff from Frieza for this mod, some of which was in tracker format and some of which was mp3 / ogg. Themes for the music included ice, jungle, desert, infiltration and combat, among others. We also had a creepy number called "Corpse Song" and an incredibly moody lament called "Requiem", both by zynthetic.

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Hellscrag wrote:Maps - I would envisage continuing my own myself, if at all possible.

That is entirely up to you, pending I examine everything to see how it will be used in the RD plotline and what further work would be required and all. Again, I am willing to deal with all this stuff myself and don't want anyone to feel as if they need to continue on maps they haven't touched for years.

Hellscrag wrote:I would agree that we should try to contact mappers before using their unfinished content, but I would argue in favour of going ahead and using it if they can't be reached. They were, after all, originally working on those maps for BfNP rather than for themselves.

I won't feel comfortable using any content that was not agreed for use by its creator.

Hellscrag wrote:Over node limit:- Waffnuffly's cursed town - this could probably be fixed by separating off the end cave area of cutting part of the map.

Noted, pending Waffnuffly's answer (former Red Nemesis member, after all). He might want to keep the map for EXU. There's also already a sort of "ghost town" scheduled for construction anyway, so depending on how much content is there, and he agrees, I can find ways to move things together and excise unnecessary parts.

Hellscrag wrote:- Wael's dead mines - more problematic as it has an uber-grand cave running all the way through it, into which the rest of the geometry is built. However, I suspect the node limit issue results in this case from the cave itself being too high-poly. It could possibly be replaced.

This is interesting, considering that the one map completed fully for the Na Pali section of RD is a derelict Tarydium mine. If Wael accepts the conditions (I think he might since he was a former Red Nemesis member), I might have to do some serious thinking here and might use content from this map for sublevels to the main level I constructed already. This could potentially work out very well.

Hellscrag wrote:On the edge of the node limit:- My icy town - just about manageable.- My coastal fortress - workable if we lose most of the detailed battlements in favour of a plain parapet (except perhaps in the first area, where the battlements make a worthwhile impact).

The coastal map, hmmm. I can see a way a coastal locale could work very well, although I might have a lot of ideas how to best convert it. This, above all other maps, might need to the most brainstorming from me.

Hellscrag wrote:Other content:- Textures: McFarrel is still contactable and will be fine with us using them.- Weapons: The EAR is fully-functional barring some bugs to do with the powerups. There's also no mesh for the powerup inventory item. Unfortunately we never got the Crossbow mesh off SnipaMasta before he left.

...that's about it.

So basically town textures and a gun? Alrighty. The crossbow could have been completed if we had the content on it.

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Hellscrag wrote:I forgot to mention music in my summary of extra non-map content that was created for BfNP.

We had lots of incredibly cool stuff from Frieza for this mod, some of which was in tracker format and some of which was mp3 / ogg. Themes for the music included ice, jungle, desert, infiltration and combat, among others. We also had a creepy number called "Corpse Song" and an incredibly moody lament called "Requiem", both by zynthetic.

Since they both have made music for RD, I can see about working the appropriate tracks into the maps if they are used.

Hellscrag wrote:If this all goes ahead then, if Prophet were okay with it, I would envisage releasing BfNP's detailed design documents after RD's release as a historical document.

There is going to be a comprehensive "supplemental" section in RD's menu upon release as well, which is something I've wanted to do for a couple of years given how much time and history was put into the mod. BFNP already will have a mention anyway as a major sister storyline.

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Mister_Prophet wrote:I won't feel comfortable using any content that was not agreed for use by its creator.

Fair enough. The only one I could see being really problematic to contact would be Frieza, given how he disappeared so suddenly in June. However, I've already tried e-mailing him tonight to see if I can get hold of his unfinished maps, so we'll see how that plays out.

In terms of me finishing my maps, it would of course be in accordance with any parameters you set.

The Coastal Fortress is a map I'd very much like to see finished, but if you can't use it, it can stand alone - no worries.

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Hellscrag wrote:Fair enough. The only one I could see being really problematic to contact would be Frieza, given how he disappeared so suddenly in June. However, I've already tried e-mailing him tonight to see if I can get hold of his unfinished maps, so we'll see how that plays out.

Frieza made a remix of the Terraniux theme for RD some time back (it was heard in the first Unreal podcast hosted by Shivaxi) and that was the last time I spoke with him. But I don't think he'd be too difficult to reach.

Hellscrag wrote:In terms of me finishing my maps, it would of course be in accordance with any parameters you set.

Cool. It's just that I won't know what will need to be added to the town until I get it in ued and give it a look over. It might be fine "as is," pending theme changes and an altered entry/exit.

Hellscrag wrote:The Coastal Fortress is a map I'd very much like to see finished, but if you can't use it, it can stand alone - no worries.

I can use it...I just don't really have an idea of how much would need to be touched, but I imagine it will be more significant than all the other maps. That's really what I mean. Same with the other maps from the BFNP screenshots, like the Skaarj maps and some of the temples, if they are to be part of the merge as well. Anything like that will take some planning.

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Personally I'd rather see the BfNP maps released in all their originally envisioned glory using the tech I started developing, rather than being cut down, but obviously the mappers in question should have the final say.