AP: Gosnell’s co-defendants really needed jobs, you know

posted at 10:01 am on April 13, 2013 by Ed Morrissey

The Associated Press has been one of the few national media outlets providing at least some coverage of the Kermit Gosnell trial, presumably from their local partners, so they certainly deserve some credit for going where their competitors wouldn’t — at least not until recently. As with most news outlets following an ongoing story, the AP started looking for fresh angles to frame their stories. Last night, though, the AP sent out a wire story headlined “Philly abortion workers saw few options,” in which Maryclaire Dale focuses on the employment woes of Gosnell’s co-defendants to explain why they followed Gosnell’s orders in his charnel house.

In testimony at the capital murder trial this past month, an unlicensed doctor and untrained aides described long, chaotic days at the clinic. They said they performed grueling, often gruesome work for little more than minimum wage, paid by Gosnell under the table.

But for most, it was the best job they could find.

Unlicensed doctor Stephen Massof, 50, of Pittsburgh, said he could not get a U.S. medical residency after finishing medical school in Grenada and went to work for Gosnell as a “backup plan” after six years running a bar. He admitted killing two babies by snipping their necks, as he said Gosnell taught him to do.

Eileen O’Neill, 56, had worked as a doctor in Louisiana but relinquished her medical license in 2000 to deal with “post-traumatic stress syndrome,” according to her 2011 grand jury testimony. She is the only employee on trial with Gosnell, fighting false billing and racketeering charges.

Another went into the baby-spine-snipping industry, Dale tells us, because the government didn’t pay her disability benefits fast enough:

The others convicted include clinic workers Lynda Williams and Sherry West. Williams was hired to clean instruments but soon helped anesthetize patients, perform ultrasounds and carry out abortions, cutting babies in the back of the neck. She has pleaded guilty to third-degree murder, which carries a 20- to 40-year prison sentence.

West, 53, had been a longtime surgical technician at the Veterans Administration but quit in 2007 after contracting Hepatitis C. A year later, still waiting on disability benefits, she went to work for Gosnell.

So … we are supposed to feel sympathy for them? One could understand if they took the job out of desperation, but left when they saw the conditions and the practice of killing live infants born after botched abortions. It might be more understandable if they had alerted authorities about both after leaving. Instead, though, these adults — most if not all of them well into middle age — made the conscious decision to get paid to endanger and maim women, at least one of whom died, and kill babies.

Sorry, but chronic unemployment doesn’t begin to explain that decision.

Meanwhile, the interest of the national media continues to belatedly grow for this ghastly horror show. Anderson Cooper picked up on one of the most obvious yet overlooked angles to this story, focusing on the lack of regulatory enforcement for nearly two decades of Gosnell’s operation that allowed his barbaric practice to continue:

When faced with a series of complaints about Gosnell’s abbatoir, what did the state and local government do? Cancel inspections of all abortion clinics, of course, a decision that Cooper notes had political reasons behind it.

In January 2011, shortly after Gosnell was charged, Philadelphia District Attorney Seth Williams told CNN, “It was a house of horrors beyond any type of definition or explanation I can humbly try to give.”

Keeping Them Honest, the question is how did these alleged practices go on with no one stopping it? Tonight you’ll see how the grand jury laid out several oversight failures over two decades.

One glaring example in its report details a former employee of Gosnell who filed a complaint with the State Board of Medicine and exposed “the whole scope of his operation: the unclean, unsterile conditions; the unlicensed workers; the unsupervised sedations; the underage abortion patients; even the over-prescribing of pain pills with high resale value on the street.”

It turns out in 2010, the FBI raided Gosnell’s facility after reports that painkillers were being improperly distributed. But what they allegedly found was much more gruesome.

Allahpundit has Jake Tapper’s look at the lack of media coverage in his QOTD, which Tapper called the “buried lede,” so don’t miss that. Along those lines, Erik Wemple at the Washington Post gives us a look at what happens when someone challenges the media on their editorial decisions, as he began doing over the last couple of days:

Several outlets continue in silence—at least vis-a-vis this blog—about their coverage calculus vis-a-vis Gosnell. No surprise there. Over nearly two years in this position, the Erik Wemple Blog has sampled a great deal of what comes out of the MRC/NewsBusters operation. Much of the time, it’s ticky-tack stuff — some fool misspeaks, another moron takes to Twitter, another lame-o imprudently generalizes about something. And then sometimes, it’s a bona fide media question.

On those occasions, the Erik Wemple Blog brings the matter to the attention of any allegedly offending news organization or journalist. At that point, a pretty common transaction unfolds. We are not at liberty to quote news organizations or journalists, but we can say that, when presented with questions that have their origins in MRC/NewsBusters research, the typical response is something along the lines of ”Get out of my face with this agenda-driven stuff, and come back when you have a real story.” …

Says Graham: “I am always willing to entertain, as a conservative media critic and as a former White House reporter, that there are many reasons why you don’t do a story.” But, says Graham, “our first job is to say it’s not being covered.” The first job of the media, it would appear, is to hunker down.

If a few things I’m seeing start into a new trend, the aged and/or infirm are next. That’s been kicking around for a while but hasn’t gone far. Nowadays I fear a resurgence of the notion, with the idea catching on a little bit more.

Liam on April 13, 2013 at 11:46 AM

IPAB “recommendations” are on the way.

Marginalization of humans e.g. too sick, too old, will be necessary in order to declare them “not beneficial to the State,” and, therefore, unworthy of receiving necessary medical care.

It’ll just be too expensive for the State to treat them. The State must allocate its love and resources.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 11:54 AM

We all expect seniors to be a target, but the progs whose writings the death panel concept comes from, place just as little ‘community value’ on a pre-school child with serious medical problems as they do on a senior with serious medical problems.

They graph the ‘community value’ of a human being, starting at zero at birth, beginning to increase through the school years, peaking in the twenties through forties, and thereafter dropping off. Occupation plays a significant role in the calculation as well.

The increase in value is from the ‘investments’ made via government education and government healthcare. Their blase attitude on partial birth abortions seen this week might help convince the “benefit of the doubt” crowd on the right that this is their intent.

It was refreshing to see a Republican Congressman take to the House floor to rake the MSM over the coals on this issue. But he could have said a lot more and he could’ve been a bit more articulate.

What Rep. Smith should have said was “when the media decides which stories they think the American people should hear about and which stories they don’t think the American people should hear about, based on their own political biases, that’s not journalism, it’s political propaganda”.

Problem is, liberals do not see those disagreeing with them in that light. They truly belive, in their deeprst personal cores, we are evil and need to be ‘removed’

Liam on April 13, 2013 at 12:12 PM

I know, right? Some of them really do wish we would just drop off the face of the earth. But don’t we feel the same about them sometimes?
I have found in my own experiences though, that liberals and conservatives can still talk, and yes, from time to time I was actually able to get some hard-core liberals to stop and think.
I watched the video that was up in one of the Gosnell threads the other day, and in it was this one woman who admitted to having eight abortions. Did you see it? Anyway, she said she was basically just convinced to believe that abortion was just another form of birth control. How does any woman have so little knowledge and understanding of right and wrong? I’m not sure. But these are exactly the people who need to be reached. It’s not easy, but I’ve done it and I’ll keep at it. What other choice do we have?

The increase in value is from the ‘investments’ made via government education and government healthcare. Their blase attitude on partial birth abortions seen this week might help convince the “benefit of the doubt” crowd on the right that this is their intent.

slickwillie2001 on April 13, 2013 at 12:24 PM

Liberals sicken me. I know what you mean your standpoint. What makes me ill is that liberals place a graded ‘value’ on people in the first place, their arbitrary and often sanctimonious ‘quality of life’.

Even when I wasn’t a Christian, I had no problem dealing with people who had Down’s or were…Gee..How can I put that?

That’s the kind of thing liberals refuse to grasp. Of myself, I can’t see a Down’s person less valuable than me.

Liberals are incapable of grasping that concept, as trolls like thuja make so clear. And, realistically, all the trolls we have to suffer. Then they get offended when we call them as they have shown themselves.

Ghouls, vermin — and many things I can’t say here for being banned.

Liberals have, by them being so smug, sanctimonious, and holier-than-thou (far more than the Christians they excoriate at every chance), what they determines to be quality-of-life.

That’s them.

And I thank my God that He led me from once being a liberal to be better, according to Him.

Deliberately creating more Down’s syndrome babies seems as great of an economic idea as Obamanomics. There was a good reason before we became tremendously wealthy in the 20th century, that almost all Down’s syndrome babies died in infancy. Their death in infancy is the traditional value.

Hot Air threads are filled with the cold, callous nature in his words. You could literally repost them all day.

That . . .

I don’t know what to say about that.

Axe on April 13, 2013 at 12:41 PM

It really is amazing what it allows itself to believe. To rationalize. I am off to …

Finish a drawing for a great dentist,
Box stuff to clear out the house for hopefully moving soon,
Tend to my pepper, tomato, and other various vegetables seedlings that thuja seems to think is on some equal footing with a baby human.

Thursday’s testimony had sensational details. The court staff, convinced it would attract journalists from around the nation, has set aside three rows of seats to accommodate up to 40 reporters. But all Thursday morning, as Ashly Baldwin testified to horror after horror, only one reporter was in the reserved seating — me.

Several local news outlets were there, scattered about the mostly empty courtroom. The Philadelphia Inquirer had a reporter there. NBC10 sent a blogger for its website. The AP stopped in, but the reporter told me that resources are thin and trial coverage is not gavel to gavel.

An hour into afternoon testimony, John Hurdle of The New York Times showed up, and a few minutes later was gone.

The lack of daily media coverage for the most sensational abortion trial angers pro-lifers who said there is a “media black out” on the Gosnell trial.

I asked one of the court staff why so few are interested.

“If you’re pro-choice, do you really want anybody to know about this,” he said, motioning to the filthy medical equipment set up in the courtroom.

It’s a good point. As saturation coverage of the Sandy Hook elementary school coverage has caused Americans to reconsider the limits of the Second Amendment, saturation coverage of Kermit Gosnell’s clinic would likely cause the same reconsideration of abortion rights.

It was refreshing to see a Republican Congressman take to the House floor to rake the MSM over the coals on this issue. But he could have said a lot more and he could’ve been a bit more articulate.

What Rep. Smith should have said was “when the media decides which stories they think the American people should hear about and which stories they don’t think the American people should hear about, based on their own political biases, that’s not journalism, it’s political propaganda”.

ardenenoch on April 13, 2013 at 12:26 PM

Why not Congressional Hearings in the House, perhaps by the committee that runs the FCC, over the blacklisting of Gosnell stories by the FCC-regulated media? Let’s see subpoenas for their internal communications on how to best manage the story. Aren’t they awarded FCC licenses in order to serve the public, not to only advance the political views of one party?

We should always be asking ourselves, were the parties reversed, what would the democratics do? They play by Alinsky rules, and like it or not, Alinsky was right. If we don’t play Alinsky, we will continue to lose.

I alluded to this yesterday in a couple of posts here. The old saying about being careful what you wish for comes to mind.

Take a look at the AP story Ed posted here. The author goes way beyond wailing about how these people needed jobs – she gushes about how Gosnell was a “gifted student” from a “working class neighborhood. In the same article where she expects us to feel sorry for these poor clininc workers who had nowhere else to turn for work, she portrays one of them as a petty, vindictive backstabber who turned on Gosnell to get a better deal for herself. In short, the media’s already hard at work trying to “prove” that Gosnell is not the monster his right-wing and therefore racist enemies are trying to make him out to be.

Don’t forget that Gosnell’s defense hasn’t had its turn yet. His attorney will surely bang this drum long and hard – funny how all of a sudden the media promises full coverage now that Gosnell himself will soon have his chance to go to bat, isn’t it?

When he went marauding about the known world some 800 years ago, Genghis Khan almost certainly never slept on a bed scattered with rose petals. He was a hard guy. So it seems fitting that the journey east from Ulaanbaatar, Mongolia’s capital, toward a 131-foot stainless-steel statue of the infamous Mongol warlord is a stark experience. The roadside is barren of trees and unpeopled, and brown rubbly mountains stretch into the distance. When you travel the 35-mile route on a bicycle, as I did recently, the headwinds can be cruel.

Still, I pedaled on, for Genghis Khan is Mongolia’s future. After his conquests were downplayed in the history books during seven decades of de facto Soviet rule, the nomad who ruled an empire stretching from the Caspian Sea to Siberia reemerged in 1990, as democracy was being established. Today, he is a poor nation’s avatar of hope—and he’s becoming a major industry.

In Ulaanbaatar, you can drink Chinggis beer at the Grand Khaan Irish Pub. (For obscure reasons, the local spelling differs from the Western.) The Genco Tour Bureau, an Ulaanbaatar-based company, has spent about $7 million on the Chinggis Khaan Statue Complex, a commercially minded homage where the giant steel Chinggis will soon be flanked by an artificial pond, a skating rink, and 200 small gers, or round tents, for paying campers. Nearby, Genco has also built a 13th-century living history museum, sort of a Colonial Williamsburg on the steppes, where artisans make felt by beating wool with wood sticks. And at the Chinggis Khaan Golf Country Club, the greens are tiny, bright patches of artificial turf on the infinite brown.

With a poignant hopefulness, Mongolia, population 2.7 million, is trying to establish a market economy in the deep shadow of neighboring China. One morning when I was looking for a pastry in Ulaanbaatar, I strolled into a grocery store and found all the bakery workers watching me with quiet, expectant pride. “You are our first clee-ent,” the manager told me, explaining that it was opening day. “We are so honored.” Down the street, Louis Vuitton opened its first Mongolian outlet last year, and Hugo Boss likewise set up a shop for the Mongolian elite who have grown rich mining gold.

Maybe in the very spot where the clinic is today someone will buy the property and turn it into a Museum to celebrate LIFE and maybe even an adoption agency for those in that area that wont’ to choose life.

The same human spirit that turns evil into profit and good in the remote corners of Mongolia can arise on a dark street in Philly.

A ‘good egg’? The person, who wrote the following, is far from a ‘good egg’:

‘This is slightly tricky, but it should be pointed out even if the pro-lifers wil spew lies about what I’m saying. I’m used to their dishonesty. Yes, there was some real human suffering here, but real human suffering means real humans, not the fetuses intended to be killed anyway. That’s not human suffering.’

– thuja on April 12, 2013 at 11:28 PM

He’s a cafeteria constitutionalist…only ‘some’ people deserve the same constitutional protections and rights that he enjoys…only ‘some’ people are entitled to the same privileges and immunities that he has.

“If you’re pro-choice, do you really want anybody to know about this,” he said, motioning to the filthy medical equipment set up in the courtroom.

It’s a good point. As saturation coverage of the Sandy Hook elementary school coverage has caused Americans to reconsider the limits of the Second Amendment, saturation coverage of Kermit Gosnell’s clinic would likely cause the same reconsideration of abortion rights.

The details are that horrifying.

challenge the language. Why is there anything called a right to an abortion??? If it is a right, then there should be no obligation on the part of another individual–be it a baby or an abortion provider to do anything about. It’s a heinous decision to cause harm to come to a child, for a mother to be allowed to do it, for a father to abandon his role, and for a provider—and an institution to bolster it up.

Difference is, they’d be willing to see us killed to make us go away. It’s called ‘expedient efficiency’, I figure they’d say.
But don’t we feel the same about them sometimes?
We want them defeated politically. They want we Conservatives killed.
There is no parity here, no ‘moral equivalence’.
If you’re a Conservative — or even a Republican — liberals want you and me dead, out of their way for good.
Liam on April 13, 2013 at 12:45 PM

Bs, I haven’t met a single left leaning person in my entire life who expressed a desire to kill off conservatives, who wanted conservatives dead, or endorsed some sort of “expedient efficiency” final solution.

Stop accepting what people tell you other people are like and start actually engaging them. There are enough dipsh*ts to go around on all sides. But regular people are regular people. And I think you guys tend to lose that getting caught up emotionally in this stuff.

He’s a cafeteria constitutionalist…only ‘some’ people deserve the same constitutional protections and rights that he enjoys…only ‘some’ people are entitled to the same privileges and immunities that he has.

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 1:18 PM

You’re too polite.

thuja is a LIBERAL. Liberals and the Constitution are diametrically opposed to each other. Except when liberals need to tinker and toy with the words, plain meaning, and everything else about it.

I am a vegetarian and I was asked before Thanksgiving today if I ate eggs. I replied to this question as I always do, “I eat eggs to show my support for the practice of abortion.” I amused my questioner, but I would have replied the same to most whacked out “abortion is murder” fanatic.

Well, this trial isn’t really about abortion at all.

Once a foetus is living separate and apart from its mum, iIt is no longer a foetus. It IS a human being. It IS a FULL PERSON under the law. It IS entitled to the EXACT same constitutional rights and protections under the law that you enjoy. It IS entitled to the EXACT same privileges and immunities under the law that you enjoy.

Any of the foetuses that were born alive in Gosnell’s clinic were EQUAL TO YOU UNDER THE LAW. You are not entitled to anything more than they were legally entitled to be afforded.

This case is NOT about abortion once those foetuses leave the mums’ bodies. This case is NOT about ‘choice.’ The mum and the physician are REQUIRED under the law to seek medical treatment for the child. Killing a live ‘foetus’ is not partial birth abortion or a ‘post-birth abortion.’ IT IS MURDER. Period. Story. End of.

You can have whatever opinion you want on abortion, but that opinion is IRRELEVANT here, toots. However one feels about abortion in general is, frankly, irrelevant in the Gosnell case. He is charged with murdering 8 people, 7 of which were newborns. Yes, he more than likely broke Pennsylvania law by performing abortions on women carrying foetuses that were older than 24 weeks, but the primary charges concern his premeditated ‘foetal demise’ activities, i.e., stabbing human beings in the neck with scissors and cutting their spinal columns. If he had done that to a 3 month-old baby or an adult woman, no one would hesitate to label the action ‘MURDER.’ Well, the law makes no distinction between a 30 year-old woman, a 3 month-old baby boy, and a 5 minute-old newborn girl. NONE.

You had better examine your conscience forthwith. With your kind of moral equivalence, you might find yourself facing the death penalty one day…just as Dr Kermit Gosnell is now.

Bs, I haven’t met a single left leaning person in my entire life who expressed a desire to kill off conservatives, who wanted conservatives dead, or endorsed some sort of “expedient efficiency” final solution.

Stop accepting what people tell you other people are like and start actually engaging them. There are enough dipsh*ts to go around on all sides. But regular people are regular people. And I think you guys tend to lose that getting caught up emotionally in this stuff.

Genuine on April 13, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Then you need to read some of things that are out there, on the Net.

You need to have heard the things I did, when I was liberal.

You need to hear the things I do, from some, at my job.

You need to read the Tweets from those who, before the election, said they would riot if Obama isn’t elected.

You need to read the Tweets of those who call for violence if the the SC doesn’t allow homosexual marriage.

How old are you? In the 60s, I recall violent takeovers of college campuses by the very same people who are either running the country or are tenured professors at most colleges.

There’s not a lot you can tell me, because I used be very liberal caught up in all that, and saw the start of it when I was a kid.

Bs, I haven’t met a single left leaning person in my entire life who expressed a desire to kill off conservatives, who wanted conservatives dead, or endorsed some sort of “expedient efficiency” final solution.

Stop accepting what people tell you other people are like and start actually engaging them. There are enough dipsh*ts to go around on all sides. But regular people are regular people. And I think you guys tend to lose that getting caught up emotionally in this stuff.

Genuine on April 13, 2013 at 1:27 PM

How soon they forget. 2009:

Law enforcement authorities have now made it public that Jim Pouillon was in fact murdered specifically because of his displaying pro-life signs on the streets. The Detroit News reported this morning, “Harlan James Drake, 33, confessed to shooting 63-year-old activist James Pouillon because of the larger-than-life photographs of mutilated fetuses Pouillon was setting up to display Friday morning in front of Owosso High School, authorities said.”

The Detroit Free Press reported Shiawassee County Prosecutor Randy Colbry said the killing of Mr. Puillon was related to the latter’s anti-abortion protest. He said, “The defendant was offended by the manner of Mr. Puillon’s message.”

Stop accepting what people tell you other people are like and start actually engaging them. There are enough dipsh*ts to go around on all sides. But regular people are regular people. And I think you guys tend to lose that getting caught up emotionally in this stuff.

Genuine on April 13, 2013 at 1:27 PM

I’m not sure what you are talking about. Do you believe people here describing left-leaning people are describing rumors? That we’ve never actually met?

You’re everywhere. You come to my house on Thanksgiving. We can’t get away from you if we try. And I’ve tried.

He’s [thuja] a cafeteria constitutionalist…only ‘some’ people deserve the same constitutional protections and rights that he enjoys…only ‘some’ people are entitled to the same privileges and immunities that he has.

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 1:18 PM

Gotta stop ya there…think about what you just said there. The irony is overwhelming.

Anyway, thuja and anyone else is entitled to their opinion. Freedom of speech. Again, I have always been pro-life and make no apologies for it. Period.

Gotta stop ya there…think about what you just said there. The irony is overwhelming.

Anyway, thuja and anyone else is entitled to their opinion. Freedom of speech. Again, I have always been pro-life and make no apologies for it. Period.

JetBoy on April 13, 2013 at 1:47 PM

I’m not attempting to silence thuja. He can say whatever he wants. The law, however, is quite clear: This is not abortion. It’s murder. If a newborn baby can be murdered because its mum wanted an abortion and ‘deserves’ a dead baby, then what is the limiting principle? Can she kill it when it’s a week old? A month old? 5 years old? Keith Olbermann living in mummy’s basement?

This case involves a bright line. Once a foetus is born and is alive, it is no longer a foetus. It’s a full human being with the same rights, protections, privileges and immunities as its mother…and the medical ‘professionals’ that would kill it.

Anything short of a full condemnation is to support infanticide and to put forth the same arguments used in the Dred Scott case, for all intents and purposes – a child born of a botched abortion is the property of the mum for her to dispose of it as she sees fit. This automatically results in a second-class citizen that is no different than a slave to be dealt with however the mother chooses.

Bs, I haven’t met a single left leaning person in my entire life who expressed a desire to kill off conservatives, who wanted conservatives dead, or endorsed some sort of “expedient efficiency” final solution.

Stop accepting what people tell you other people are like and start actually engaging them. There are enough dipsh*ts to go around on all sides. But regular people are regular people. And I think you guys tend to lose that getting caught up emotionally in this stuff.

Hot Air threads are filled with the cold, callous nature in his words. You could literally repost them all day.

That . . .

I don’t know what to say about that.

Axe on April 13, 2013 at 12:41 PM

It really is amazing what it allows itself to believe. To rationalize. I am off to …

Finish a drawing for a great dentist,
Box stuff to clear out the house for hopefully moving soon,
Tend to my pepper, tomato, and other various vegetables seedlings that thuja seems to think is on some equal footing with a baby human.

hawkdriver on April 13, 2013 at 12:56 PM

We had words with thuja last night on the QOTD, and someone mentioned he was a she, so there’s that. She was telling us that any believe she is a right wing lunatic and that her friends thought she was really swell. All I could think while reading her evil words was that one of her friends mistake her for an ‘egg’ and do the world a favor and take a pair of scissors to her neck.

I’m not attempting to silence thuja. He can say whatever he wants. The law, however, is quite clear: This is not abortion. It’s murder. If a newborn baby can be murdered because its mum wanted an abortion and ‘deserves’ a dead baby, then what is the limiting principle? Can she kill it when it’s a week old? A month old? 5 years old? Keith Olbermann living in mummy’s basement?

This case involves a bright line. Once a foetus is born and is alive, it is no longer a foetus. It’s a full human being with the same rights, protections, privileges and immunities as its mother…and the medical ‘professionals’ that would kill it.

Anything short of a full condemnation is to support infanticide and to put forth the same arguments used in the Dred Scott case, for all intents and purposes – a child born of a botched abortion is the property of the mum for her to dispose of it as she sees fit. This automatically results in a second-class citizen that is no different than a slave to be dealt with however the mother chooses.

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I do fully condemn abortion on demand. I majorly disagree with thuja on this issue…but I’m not going to condemn him/her for voicing opinion. And to insinuate that I therefor support infanticide is patently ludicrous.

IMO human life begins at conception…and any willful termination of a fetus at any stage of life other than in pregnancies as a result of rape or if the mom’s life were in mortal danger if she carried to term, is first degree murder.

I’m not attempting to silence thuja. He can say whatever he wants. The law, however, is quite clear: This is not abortion. It’s murder. If a newborn baby can be murdered because its mum wanted an abortion and ‘deserves’ a dead baby, then what is the limiting principle? Can she kill it when it’s a week old? A month old? 5 years old? Keith Olbermann living in mummy’s basement?

This case involves a bright line. Once a foetus is born and is alive, it is no longer a foetus. It’s a full human being with the same rights, protections, privileges and immunities as its mother…and the medical ‘professionals’ that would kill it.

Anything short of a full condemnation is to support infanticide and to put forth the same arguments used in the Dred Scott case, for all intents and purposes – a child born of a botched abortion is the property of the mum for her to dispose of it as she sees fit. This automatically results in a second-class citizen that is no different than a slave to be dealt with however the mother chooses.

Resist We Much on April 13, 2013 at 2:14 PM

I do fully condemn abortion on demand. I majorly disagree with thuja on this issue…but I’m not going to condemn him/her for voicing opinion. And to insinuate that I therefor support infanticide is patently ludicrous.

IMO human life begins at conception…and any willful termination of a fetus at any stage of life other than in pregnancies as a result of rape or if the mom’s life were in mortal danger if she carried to term, is first degree murder.

JetBoy on April 13, 2013 at 2:38 PM

Okay. What if she was spouting off that gays trying to marry should be burned at the stake? Maybe something a little closer to home for you since the act of getting a girl preggars is not something that may be a concern for you.

Bs, I haven’t met a single left leaning person in my entire life who expressed a desire to kill off conservatives, who wanted conservatives dead, or endorsed some sort of “expedient efficiency” final solution.

Stop accepting what people tell you other people are like and start actually engaging them. There are enough dipsh*ts to go around on all sides. But regular people are regular people. And I think you guys tend to lose that getting caught up emotionally in this stuff.

Genuine on April 13, 2013 at 1:27 PM

Then you need to read some of things that are out there, on the Net.

You need to have heard the things I did, when I was liberal.

You need to hear the things I do, from some, at my job.

You need to read the Tweets from those who, before the election, said they would riot if Obama isn’t elected.

You need to read the Tweets of those who call for violence if the the SC doesn’t allow homosexual marriage.

How old are you? In the 60s, I recall violent takeovers of college campuses by the very same people who are either running the country or are tenured professors at most colleges.

There’s not a lot you can tell me, because I used be very liberal caught up in all that, and saw the start of it when I was a kid.

Again — How old are you?

Liam on April 13, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Famous friend of Obama, Bill Ayers, suggested exactly that. He is still a highly-regarded and credentialed man of the Left. He thought that around twenty million of us were beyond reeducation and would simply have to be murdered in the quest for his Marxist paradise.

I do fully condemn abortion on demand. I majorly disagree with thuja on this issue…but I’m not going to condemn him/her for voicing opinion. And to insinuate that I therefor support infanticide is patently ludicrous.

JetBoy on April 13, 2013 at 2:38 PM

I am not asking you to condemn anything. I am saying to thuja and those like him: Either condemn ‘post-birth abortion’ or you will be labeled as someone, who supports infanticide. There is NO gray area.

I am not making religious, philosophical, or emotional arguments. My argument is STRICTLY based on the law. Thuja, evidently, believes the law should be changed so that it is not infanticide if a mum or medical professional kills a baby that survives abortion because, well, it was supposed to be aborted anyway.

IMO human life begins at conception…and any willful termination of a fetus at any stage of life other than in pregnancies as a result of rape or if the mom’s life were in mortal danger if she carried to term, is first degree murder.

It’s not first degree murder under the law, but I understand your sentiments. The point, however, is that this case is not about abortion. It is about murder. Thuja refuses to understand that.

The media are hypocrites for their position that this isn’t worthy of being seen though.

I remember a fight by the media to show the coffins in transport and arriving at Dover because they said it was so important for the public to see. I remember a fight to even air and publish a picture of a dying Marine from Afghanistan. Bleeding to death. They said you had to see it to understand the cost of the war.

Then you need to read some of things that are out there, on the Net.
You need to have heard the things I did, when I was liberal.
You need to hear the things I do, from some, at my job.
You need to read the Tweets from those who, before the election, said they would riot if Obama isn’t elected.
You need to read the Tweets of those who call for violence if the the SC doesn’t allow homosexual marriage.
How old are you? In the 60s, I recall violent takeovers of college campuses by the very same people who are either running the country or are tenured professors at most colleges.
There’s not a lot you can tell me, because I used be very liberal caught up in all that, and saw the start of it when I was a kid.
Again — How old are you?
Liam on April 13, 2013 at 1:35 PM

Tweets, man? Whats out there on the net? Jesus, EVERYTHING is out there on the net. This isn’t 1969 with all the liberal’s “leaders” having been assasinated. It’s ridiculous. You state that liberals just want to kill conservatives in this unapologetic blanket statement because you can find some idiot who posted a tweet about it?

Swalker here just got banned because his personal blog he linked to all the time repeatedly endorsed the idea of lynchings. BUT, it’s the internet brother.

There are crazy tools on all sides. But regular people are regular people and despite your fear and feelings of victimization I’ve yet to actually meet a single actual soul in person who advocated for the things you say. Not one. Despite what some random on the Internet or buried away in west Montana someplace.

To come at our national problems from the perspective that the other side wants you dead is an instant non starter for anything actually solution oriented. And it’s untrue to boot.

Del Dolemonte on April 13, 2013 at 1:37 PM

I see your pro-life killer and raise you and gay and liberal hating murderer for 500.

“It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that, and his stated hatred for the liberal movement,” Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said at a press conference Monday.”

Do all conservatives want liberals dead, in their churches no less, as a solution to their political problems?

Oooooooof course not. But we can play this game all day of “count the crazy and blame the rest” and “wingnut watch” if you like. Whatever’s fine. We’re all headed the same direction ether way.

In testimony at the capital murder trial this past month, an unlicensed doctor and untrained aides described long, chaotic days at the clinic. They said they performed grueling, often gruesome work for little more than minimum wage, paid by Gosnell under the table.

But for most, it was the best job they could find.

If that were true, then we should be envious of North Korea. Somehow though it smacks more of flailing about, finding whatever excuse they can to escape justice for the atrocities that they helped to perpetrate.

Another went into the baby-spine-snipping industry, Dale tells us, because the government didn’t pay her disability benefits fast enough:

The others convicted include clinic workers Lynda Williams and Sherry West. Williams was hired to clean instruments but soon helped anesthetize patients, perform ultrasounds and carry out abortions, cutting babies in the back of the neck. She has pleaded guilty to third-degree murder, which carries a 20- to 40-year prison sentence.

West, 53, had been a longtime surgical technician at the Veterans Administration but quit in 2007 after contracting Hepatitis C. A year later, still waiting on disability benefits, she went to work for Gosnell.

Alright. Someone want to try to explain this to me? Waiting for disability so goes back to work, but the only work is abortions?

1. McDonald’s, etc, are always hiring.
2. If you are disabled how are you able to work doing scut tasks at the local abortion clinic?
3. I guess I need “disabled” defined for me because #2 kind of falls outside my definition of “disabled”.

There are crazy tools on all sides. But regular people are regular people and despite your fear and feelings of victimization I’ve yet to actually meet a single actual soul in person who advocated for the things you say.

Genuine on April 13, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Liberals don’t think any of them are crazy. If one acts out, they go on a hunting expedition to see if he ever made a Conservative comment. If not, the media will ignore the story like they are the Gosnell issue. If you think there are crazy liberals, you’re considered by them a right-wing extremist. And a lot of them want to see you shot.

I have little fear, and I’m no victim. Nice try there, though.

If you haven’t met the liberals I have, then you don’t get out much. What are you — a white suburbanite insulated in your gated community? Pfft!

When you can be where I have been, and deal with in reality on my streets most days, then maybe you’ll have some place to speak with experience.

“As saturation coverage of the Sandy Hook elementary school coverage has caused Americans to reconsider the limits of the Second Amendment, As saturation coverage of the Sandy Hook elementary school coverage has caused Americans to reconsider the limits of the Second Amendment,”

Um, no. I will never reconsider my God given right to defend myself against government tyranny. NEVER.

I don’t care how many alleged “grieving parents” and alleged “dead children” are paraded past me. They sure went from “grieving” to professional lobbyists at warp speed, didn’t they?

“It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that, and his stated hatred for the liberal movement,” Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said at a press conference Monday.”

Do all conservatives want liberals dead, in their churches no less, as a solution to their political problems?

Oooooooof course not. But we can play this game all day of “count the crazy and blame the rest” and “wingnut watch” if you like. Whatever’s fine. We’re all headed the same direction ether way.

:)

Genuine on April 13, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Thanks for proving my point. The Knoxville Church shooting got many many times more media coverage, because it fit their agenda. The Pouillon case they barely touched, because it didn’t.

This can further be verified by noting that perusal of the Democrat Search Engine Google finds that it is much more difficult to find info about the Poullion story, while the Knoxville Church search gets thousands of instant results.

Even the wiki pages for both incidents are enlightening. The page for the Knoxville shootings is about 7 times longer than the page for the Poullion murder, and most of its 25 footnotes link to Major League news reports. On the other hand, the wiki footnotes for the Poullion murder come primarily from one single source, namely the Michigan Live website.

Do all conservatives want liberals dead, in their churches no less, as a solution to their political problems?

Fake on April 13, 2013 at 3:17 PM

I really shouldn’t waste any more time on you, Kos/Huff/DUmmy, but have to add a few observations.

From your own link…

“It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that, and his stated hatred for the liberal movement,” Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said at a press conference Monday.

In other words, the killer said he hated the liberal movement. Where does the story say he wanted to kill liberals, and where does it say he wanted to kill them in churches no less?

F-#1

Police said Adkisson snuck a 12-gauge shotgun into the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in a guitar case Sunday morning and opened fire during a children’s performance of “Annie.” They recovered three spent rounds and more than 70 shotgun shells.

Why would he want to frighten the kids? He had nothing against them.

F-#2

Adkisson, who told police he had no relatives, planned to be killed by police, Owen said.

“He indicated also in that letter that he expected to be in there shooting people until the police arrived and he fully expected to be killed by the responding police,” he said.

In other words, he was planning to shoot as many people as possible, regardless of their political or sexual or religious beliefs. Please tell us how he would be able to ID these people in such a short span of time (5 minutes?) See below.

F- #3

The two slain church members were identified as Greg McKendry and Linda Kraeger.

McKendry, 60, a burly usher “stood in the front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us,” church member Barbara Kemper said.

Kraeger, 61, died at the University of Tennessee Medical Center a few hours after the shooting, Kenner said.

Unlicensed doctor Stephen Massof, 50, of Pittsburgh, said he could not get a U.S. medical residency after finishing medical school in Grenada and went to work for Gosnell as a “backup plan” after six years running a bar. He admitted killing two babies by snipping their necks, as he said Gosnell taught him to do.

Eileen O’Neill, 56, had worked as a doctor in Louisiana but relinquished her medical license in 2000 to deal with “post-traumatic stress syndrome,” according to her 2011 grand jury testimony. She is the only employee on trial with Gosnell, fighting false billing and racketeering charges.

Gee, I wonder how such, er… qualified people could wind up not being able to get a better job?

The first guy goes to medical school in Grenada, and can’t even find a hospital anywhere that will let him do a residency. So he spends 6 years running a bar before he finds a job that can be done by his meager level of medical background: killing babies.

And no comment at all on why a 56-year old doctor in Louisiana might have had to give up her medical license?

If this is meant to rationalize or defend Gosnell’s co-defendants, it fails. All it accomplishes is to illustrate clearly just what a low-budget unsafe operation this clinic was.

No wonder the media wants to avoid the topic. It’s likely this clinic was a completely typical abortion clinic. Nobody wants to pull at that thread.

“So here’s the deal, you’re going to be paid minimum wage but it will all be under the table. Your job will be to yank infants from the womb, flip them onto their stomachs, hack through their spines, and then throw the corpse into this trash bag. Let me demonstrate…”

Yeah. At that point a normal person should be running from the room in horror and heading to the nearest police station.

Like I said in my blog. The issue is this case hits ALL of the third rails of the Left.

They were NEVER going to cover this, much like the kidnapping, rape, torture and murder of the white Tennessee couple by the six black suspects. It doesn’t fit the narrative.

Folks, for those of us who were interested in history, THIS IS how the Germans managed to exterminate millions of their fellow citizens and have the majority of the other citizens “surprised” to find out it happened!

This is how the government controls the narrative. PC is a powerful, powerful tool. One MSM liberal claims she didn’t cover it because it was icky. She covered Newtown a few days after the shootings, which I argue is also at least as icky. So she’s lying.

…Why? Simple. Newton fits their agenda. Gosnell flies in the face of their agenda. Given the choice on whether to act with ethics or morality or with a desire to tell the truth or hide the inconvenient facts they don’t want to share with the country, the MSM chose to be unethical cowards. They don’t want to talk about abortion or race or the abuses. They don’t want to talk about how Pennsylvania stopped enforcing basic health regulations in abortion clinics due to liberal political pressure. How many people have been injured or killed because of this PC madness?

They love death by guns because it supports the “nobody should own a gun!” argument.

They don’t want to talk about deaths by a sloppy criminal doctor and the grimy murder mill that was killing viable babies and their mothers. Here is a list of the “third rails” this case hits.

1. Abortion

2. Race

3. City corruption

4. Political correctness

5. murder of babies

6. mistreatment of mothers of lower income in abortion clinic

You can see why “they” don’t want to talk about it. And to have Detroit papers claim it to be a “local story” in Philly as justification not to cover it just reinforces what we all suspect.

There is no honor or truth on the other side. It is and will always be “The ends justify the means.” …

___

What upsets me is that the Left in the MSM or in our culture will still demand respect for their efforts. F them. When I see some Leftie model doing a nude commercial to highlight the killing of babies and not some fur bearing animal, or a media type openly questioning the concept of when life starts, or some other effort all I can say is this:

“Much of the time, it’s ticky-tack stuff — some fool misspeaks, another moron takes to Twitter, another lame-o imprudently generalizes about something…….. the typical response is something along the lines of ”Get out of my face with this agenda-driven stuff, and come back when you have a real story.”

…..why am I thinking the media was more than willing to suck up any “agenda driven” foolish, ticky stack stuff on the likes of Palin and other conservatives……

I can’t read the details anymore, I feel hollowed out, like my insides are just.. gone..

Every time I read abortion, I see the face of my son, Garret, stillborn in 04.. he’d be 9 in June, the 7th.. He had the face of my second child, Nathan, looked just like his brother.. so tiny, so frail, and he passed before he could even lay his eyes on his mother, father..

I see his face.. and I can’t forget.. don’t want too..

I have no sympathy for any of his staff, I don’t care how much they needed a job, Hell we were homeless for 3 years, moving from family to family, as my medical issues got worse, and my wife, Bless her father, couldn’t carry the weight all by herself..

We in time, did better.. got our own place, and watched our kids grow..

I can’t forgive or forget, they have no justification for ramming those scissors into…

Father forgive me,.. I judge,.. and I have no pity at all for them, would have them all condemned today to Hell if I could.. For those who see this as an anomoly I say,.. the abortion mills create these monsters, who see dead infants as just another ring at the cash register… how in God’s name, can ANYONE walk into a room with dead babies lining the shelves, a few still alive, screaming for love, for life.. and not only say nothing.. but join in the killing? Every parent knows the scream of an infant who’s scared, or cold.. you rush to comfort, to swaddle, to feed and caress.. to nurture and hold, care and love..

Dear God..

how can any human being defend these demons?

They had a choice.. and chose evil..

I can hear those cries in my mind, those poor dear babies, crying for help..

I’m sorry,.. I still almost 9 years on, miss our son. I hope I always miss him, and two.. someday,.. after my time is done, I’ll meet my second son, and he’ll know me as his dad, and be proud I never forgot him, he’s got good company, my mother, father.. my sister, a brother.. he’s got love,.. I just wish..,

I’m no threat to anyone,.. and plan to stay as long as I can for my wife, and first born daughter, my first son. I just am torn up inside by this horrific crime..

Too bad,.. drawing and quartering is out of use, if ever anyone deserved that fate..

It’ll just be too expensive for the State to treat them. The State must allocate its love and resources.

OhEssYouCowboys on April 13, 2013 at 11:54 AM

And the logical conclusion of all this? Well Hollywood already covered that in the 70’s: “Logan’s Run”. Bet there’ll be no 3D remake of that movie anytime soon (nor Soylent Green). Hits a little to close to home me thinks…

1. A half a century ago, when the Democrat Party started its assault weapon approach to legalizing abortion, one of their most effective Talking Points (which I will admit was well-intentioned) was that legalizing abortion would do away with the “back alley abortions”, “abortions done with coat hangers”, and of course “abortions done by sleazy Doctors.”

Gosnell is the Poster Child for what the Democrats said was evil. Darn those pesky expiration dates.

3. Gosnell was apparently allowed to run a “clinic” where the sanitary conditions would make Abu Ghraib look like the Royal Hawaiian Hotel.

4. He did all of this in a Democrat City in a Democrat State. If this had been a white doctor in Kansas doing the same thing, this would be front page, and all of the Democrats here would demand that he be taken out back behind the barn and shot.

No-one can hide it anymore we know it’s not imagining
Even the skeptics are unsure when they stop to think
People are not worth their life; now they are obsolete
We’re dying to be invaded and put the blame on something concrete

Waiting for the U-FOs waiting for the U-FOs
We are waiting for the U-FOs we know that they’re there