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As usual, another MMO company caters to the "ez-mode" crowd and make the game too easy to level up. Even the casual player hit max way too soon.

First poster is correct.

When levelling isn't the point of the game (at least not as much important as in other games of its kind), you guys are looking at it the wrong way.

Getting to 80 isn't really a benchmark in this game. Anyone should have seen it the moment they realize they can do lots of stuff at level 2 than a same leveled player in WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera, Rift, etc.

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Originally posted by nuttobIt's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase! If a sense of progression is the only thing that lets you enjoy a game, then you should be playing WOW and not GW2...

That's just not accurate. It's an MMORPG, therefore Progression is one of the MAIN game systems/designs that makes an MMORPG. It also is the main avenue of having LONGEVITY in any MMORPG. This game is lacking Longevity in massive doses. There is no Meta-Game with GW2. While GW1 annoyed me with the lobby based mission hubs and instanced zones they at least got the longevity part down right and there was a ton of Meta-gaming to be done on skill builds alone.

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Originally posted by Daddydazzle

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

i would love for GW2 to have a housing system in place. being able to craft up items for housing would make crafting worth while, while at the same time giving us something to do. making large scale guild housing would be amazing as well.

i put in about 600 hours over 8 toons and have a hard time logging in now. there just isn't enough content to keep me playing like i would in other mmos. i'm not saying i wasted the 60$ i spent on the game (great price for that much quality gametime), but i do wish they would add more content to the game and soon.

once you hit cap, hit 100% map, get your gear sets and legendary, all we can really do now is sPvP, WvW, and fractal and achiev farming (lame). the thing that really sucks for me is i'm having a really hard time playing other games from being spoiled in GW2. the quality of life and normal features in the game have made is so i'm not enjoying my time in my normal games i've been playing. every game i normally play just feels very old and out dated to me now and that's really frusterating. i almost wish i had never played GW2 because of this.

600 hours in 3 months? that is 6-7 hours a day every day. No wonder why you are burned out.

didn't say i was burned out, just nothin to do in game. i have zero reason to run 5 mans as i don't need the gear. the fractals were cool, but not something fun to farm over and over and over. can only do so much WvW and sPvP.

i was blown up in iraq. spine is jacked up and prevents me from moving so i tend to play a lot of mmos. during those 600 hours i split my time up between a few different games (console and online), tv/movies. it wasn't like i rocked 600 hours strait with no sleep or anything.

My god that would suck. I have casual outings 2 or 3 times a week. I couldn't imagine no life but MMOs. I get an MMO to escape the boredom that is the DoD. I couldn't imagine...sitting in front of the laptop all day sunday or saturday. Too many other lucrative options.

Sorry you got blown up. I couldn't live with myself. I have to get out and have some casual outings every once in a while...experience life...not tech.

www.thedragon13.com - Become a Dragon. What have you done to change our world?

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Got my warrior to 80. Immediately created an ele alt. Got to about 65 with her. Stopped playing. Became extremely bored doing the same thing over and over for a story I could give two poops about.

Back to playing SWTOR. Back to playing with the trinity.....and loving it. :)

While I wouldn't tout SWTOR as being worth going back to over any other game(extreme lack of diversity in leveling) you have a point about the trinity. I thought I would enjoy the gameplay GW2 brought to the table with parties and no true tank/healers but quickly found I hated it and wanted trinity gameplay asap, especially in dungeons. Trinity gameplay just allows one to focus build characters more and feel like they are contributing to the group. In GW2's current form I feel lost half the time and useless the other half, mostly as I'm running back mid fight 5 times on 1 boss along with other members of the party just to take the next party members spot as he dies to the that same boss and does the death run back to us and repeats ad nauseum until the boss is dead. Yeah, it's just dumb and doesn't really work.

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This is the flaw of every mmo since wow. It is all so fast paced it is ridiculous. I miss spending hours on low level content. Having a single fight last more then a couple seconds. Nice long epic fights where you just barely survive gave the game a epic feel. More newby zones with rich story developement. Also another thing that most games just cannot figure out is people hate cookie cutter games. More character options the better. The more choices we can take with our characters the more they will mean to us than just an other X class and class with the best gear for that level. Why do they think that we want to play a characters that all seem to be the same. Just saying if they dont start listening and stop trying to copy wow's success the industry will end up dieing.

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Originally posted by nuttobIt's not the kill, it's the thrill of the chase! If a sense of progression is the only thing that lets you enjoy a game, then you should be playing WOW and not GW2...

That's just not accurate. It's an MMORPG, therefore Progression is one of the MAIN game systems/designs that makes an MMORPG. It also is the main avenue of having LONGEVITY in any MMORPG. This game is lacking Longevity in massive doses. There is no Meta-Game with GW2. While GW1 annoyed me with the lobby based mission hubs and instanced zones they at least got the longevity part down right and there was a ton of Meta-gaming to be done on skill builds alone.

Is that so? I always thought what makes it an MMORPG was it being an Online Role Playing Game that is Massively Multiplayer. Weird... its almost as if thats what the letters stand for too. The definition of an MMORPG is VERY broad, the elements that set it in that genre are minimal. If Borderlands were massively multiplayer and online-only, it would be an mmorpg. Camera view, linearity, combat, longevity, setting, controls, crafting, gear progression, etc. wouldn't change the fact that it would be an rpg that would be massively multiplayer online.

nuttob is right, if you don't like it don't play it. Just don't try to say there is a right way and a wrong way to make or play a game, as that is 100% based on opinion. In fact, your logic of "this is what it needs and what should be because that is the norm and what I'm used to." is a huge (if not the biggest) reason why there are so few games of the genre willing/trying to branch out, try new things, or innovate.

Not at all subjective. Graphic quality is based on technical limits and power of processing the visuals. You're mistaking graphic quality with aesthetic or art-style, which is as you said highly subjective. How good the graphics are, on the other hand, is based on facts and numbers. I doubt you are going to argue that math is based on opinion as well.

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Nowadays there are so many good games out there theat I as altholic have no problem to migrate to another game when leveled all my alts to max. Once enjoyed a lot 5man's in wotlk era. That joy was killed with cata and lost all interest. No need. After I'm done with all my 11 alts (+ few from horde side) will have just to select which one will be next, Rift, Gw2, swtor, ....

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As usual, another MMO company caters to the "ez-mode" crowd and make the game too easy to level up. Even the casual player hit max way too soon.

First poster is correct.

As usual, a person who has not played the game talking about things he knows not. I have one character at lvl 80 and that is at 200 hrs or so - that is NOT too soon. How long would you like it to take? A.Net just made leveling linear not logirthmic like most games.

Saying you put in 200 hours doesn't say much. 200 hours doing what? Were you focused on leveling, or were you doing other things? Did you spend time helping others out and such?

Certainly whatever way you played works for you so long as you enjoyed it. But saying "It took me 200 hours to hit level 80 therefor your argument is wrong" is kinda moot, considering not everyone plays the same way. Someone for whom progression is their favorite part of the game is going to level in less time than someone for whom more social or side activity is preferred.

People have this bad habit of comparing all other play styles against their own, as though it's some standard for all else to be held to. It's not.

If someone enjoys the sense of constant progression, and they're hitting level cap far more quickly (which, let's face it, many have), then that could very well be an issue for them.

And anyway, to have reached level cap in 200 hours is not a very long time for a MMO, which are ideally designed to last for years. Some people can knock out 200 hours in less than 1 to 1.5 months.

This is another problem with MMORPGs these days, they're not designed for longevity anymore. They're designed more like glorified single player games where you race through them, get through end game, get bored, and move on.

Worse, people seem to expect them to be that. When I see people saying things like, "You wouldn't get more than a couple weeks out of most single player games, so getting even a month from a MMO is already a good deal", I just shake my head. Comparing a game that is traditionally, by design, intended to last many months, or even years, against a game that might last 50 hours, if you're lucky, is the wrong way to look at it. MMOs are long-distance marathons to some remote landscape, not short-distance sprints to some finish line.

A MMO that you can "finish" in a month or two is shallow and incomplete.

And please, no one come back with the typical hyperbolic retort about "people living in their mothers' basement grinding every day for a year" as a counter-argument. That's not a valid retort and it's rarely (if ever) even close to accurate.

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Originally posted by BlueSage13

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Daddydazzle

i would love for GW2 to have a housing system in place. being able to craft up items for housing would make crafting worth while, while at the same time giving us something to do. making large scale guild housing would be amazing as well.

i put in about 600 hours over 8 toons and have a hard time logging in now. there just isn't enough content to keep me playing like i would in other mmos. i'm not saying i wasted the 60$ i spent on the game (great price for that much quality gametime), but i do wish they would add more content to the game and soon.

once you hit cap, hit 100% map, get your gear sets and legendary, all we can really do now is sPvP, WvW, and fractal and achiev farming (lame). the thing that really sucks for me is i'm having a really hard time playing other games from being spoiled in GW2. the quality of life and normal features in the game have made is so i'm not enjoying my time in my normal games i've been playing. every game i normally play just feels very old and out dated to me now and that's really frusterating. i almost wish i had never played GW2 because of this.

600 hours in 3 months? that is 6-7 hours a day every day. No wonder why you are burned out.

didn't say i was burned out, just nothin to do in game. i have zero reason to run 5 mans as i don't need the gear. the fractals were cool, but not something fun to farm over and over and over. can only do so much WvW and sPvP.

i was blown up in iraq. spine is jacked up and prevents me from moving so i tend to play a lot of mmos. during those 600 hours i split my time up between a few different games (console and online), tv/movies. it wasn't like i rocked 600 hours strait with no sleep or anything.

My god that would suck. I have casual outings 2 or 3 times a week. I couldn't imagine no life but MMOs. I get an MMO to escape the boredom that is the DoD. I couldn't imagine...sitting in front of the laptop all day sunday or saturday. Too many other lucrative options.

Sorry you got blown up. I couldn't live with myself. I have to get out and have some casual outings every once in a while...experience life...not tech.

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If though this is a "Critical" column the amount of sugar coating makes my stomach hurt. This reminds of when people felt like they had to say "GW2 is a good game" at the begining of every critical thread.

"The strongest type of character progression in Guild Wars 2 is visual. This is where ArenaNet really hit a home run. As your character becomes stronger they will need better armor and weapons."

I feel they completely missed the mark her for the first 79 levels. I made a thread awhile back showing my toon looking exactly the same at level 50 as it did at level 14. The variation in armor sub 80 is a bismal. It was a corner cut, and it's a real sore point.

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I have level 80 guardian who is currently persueing exotics. I also started an ele who is only level 17. Content is not GW2 problem. In fact there is a rediculous amount of things to do. However this game is not for the I play 40+ hours a week gamer. ANdr can't keep them happy without imposing gear treadmills and grind of more traditional MMOs on the rest of us. I will be playing far into the future because.

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Why do people need to get on a gear treadmill to play a game? When did video games become about gear and not fun? Im having a blast with my level 80, doing dungeons, fractial runs, crafting. Great thing is because there is no gear tiers I can access all contant with green and rare yellow con gear. I have more to do at 80 then most MMOs I have played over the past 15 years of MMOing I have done, just because I am not locked out of content.

This is before you even get into polishing your crafting, exploring (big world) meta events like killing Dragons. Large chain events that the community is always going to play because they are fun with great rewards. This is even before you get into sPvP and WvW and I am having a blast playing them even with the tweeking it needs. This game is fun.

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Got my warrior to 80. Immediately created an ele alt. Got to about 65 with her. Stopped playing. Became extremely bored doing the same thing over and over for a story I could give two poops about.

Back to playing SWTOR. Back to playing with the trinity.....and loving it. :)

While I wouldn't tout SWTOR as being worth going back to over any other game(extreme lack of diversity in leveling) you have a point about the trinity. I thought I would enjoy the gameplay GW2 brought to the table with parties and no true tank/healers but quickly found I hated it and wanted trinity gameplay asap, especially in dungeons. Trinity gameplay just allows one to focus build characters more and feel like they are contributing to the group. In GW2's current form I feel lost half the time and useless the other half, mostly as I'm running back mid fight 5 times on 1 boss along with other members of the party just to take the next party members spot as he dies to the that same boss and does the death run back to us and repeats ad nauseum until the boss is dead. Yeah, it's just dumb and doesn't really work.

Game tastes are subjective.

But the removing of the trinity without replacing it with something else was a huge mistake on ANET's part. A clear example of simply changing a mechanic for the sake of changing it with zero afterthough afterwards. Combat is confused and utterly without any strategy. I absolutely hated the dungeon experience.

If you are going to remove something that has worked, provide an alternative. Removing for the sake of removing is lazy and uttetly poor planning.

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Got my warrior to 80. Immediately created an ele alt. Got to about 65 with her. Stopped playing. Became extremely bored doing the same thing over and over for a story I could give two poops about.

Back to playing SWTOR. Back to playing with the trinity.....and loving it. :)

While I wouldn't tout SWTOR as being worth going back to over any other game(extreme lack of diversity in leveling) you have a point about the trinity. I thought I would enjoy the gameplay GW2 brought to the table with parties and no true tank/healers but quickly found I hated it and wanted trinity gameplay asap, especially in dungeons. Trinity gameplay just allows one to focus build characters more and feel like they are contributing to the group. In GW2's current form I feel lost half the time and useless the other half, mostly as I'm running back mid fight 5 times on 1 boss along with other members of the party just to take the next party members spot as he dies to the that same boss and does the death run back to us and repeats ad nauseum until the boss is dead. Yeah, it's just dumb and doesn't really work.

Game tastes are subjective.

But the removing of the trinity without replacing it with something else was a huge mistake on ANET's part. A clear example of simply changing a mechanic for the sake of changing it with zero afterthough afterwards. Combat is confused and utterly without any strategy. I absolutely hated the dungeon experience.

If you are going to remove something that has worked, provide an alternative. Removing for the sake of removing is lazy and uttetly poor planning.

Why do you need to replace the trinity? The idea is not to use any mechanic like that. Each individual has to heal themselves as well as protect. It makes the game less - pew, pew, pew - like RIft, WoW, etc.

The evade mechanics in GW2, also make it play more like PvP, which you do have to move otherwise die.

"In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

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Originally posted by bcbully

If though this is a "Critical" column the amount of sugar coating makes my stomach hurt. This reminds of when people felt like they had to say "GW2 is a good game" at the begining of every critical thread.

"The strongest type of character progression in Guild Wars 2 is visual. This is where ArenaNet really hit a home run. As your character becomes stronger they will need better armor and weapons."

I feel they completely missed the mark her for the first 79 levels. I made a thread awhile back showing my toon looking exactly the same at level 50 as it did at level 14. The variation in armor sub 80 is a bismal. It was a corner cut, and it's a real sore point.

Totally agree here. I had about four different choices of armor looks on both my toons sub 80. Really emphasized the repetitiveness of this game when I basically looked the same the whole way through.

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Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by bcbully

If though this is a "Critical" column the amount of sugar coating makes my stomach hurt. This reminds of when people felt like they had to say "GW2 is a good game" at the begining of every critical thread.

"The strongest type of character progression in Guild Wars 2 is visual. This is where ArenaNet really hit a home run. As your character becomes stronger they will need better armor and weapons."

I feel they completely missed the mark her for the first 79 levels. I made a thread awhile back showing my toon looking exactly the same at level 50 as it did at level 14. The variation in armor sub 80 is a bismal. It was a corner cut, and it's a real sore point.

Totally agree here. I had about four different choices of armor looks on both my toons sub 80. Really emphasized the repetitiveness of this game when I basically looked the same the whole way through.

But did you have fun playing the content? Remember playing Mario Brothers for fun? Looking the same all the way through the game and not caring. End game are you having fun in GW2? Is the content well done? What does it matter if you get better gear that makes you DDs 5% more powerful when the mobs have 5% more health? Thats a false progression to keep you on a gean treadmill. I agree more new styles would be nice but more powerful, no. Its time to get beck to the roots of why we played video games... fun!!!! Its the content that matters not the gear.

Not at all subjective.Graphic quality is based on technical limits and power of processing the visuals. You're mistaking graphic quality with aesthetic or art-style, which is as you said highly subjective. How good the graphics are, on the other hand, is based on facts and numbers. I doubt you are going to argue that math is based on opinion as well.

I beg to differ. I'm aware of the differences between graphics and aesthetics but many aren't.So when I see someone talking about "better graphics" almost always they mean aesthetics. Right or wrong?

Going off on that is why I said "highly subjective." Aesthetics, subjective. Right or wrong?

Talking about the technical aspects, it is better than what? Pretty vague and open to interpretation. Better graphics than WoW, yes. Better graphics than say...Final Fantasy XIV, The Secret World, etc.? Nope. Right or wrong?

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Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by bcbully

If though this is a "Critical" column the amount of sugar coating makes my stomach hurt. This reminds of when people felt like they had to say "GW2 is a good game" at the begining of every critical thread.

"The strongest type of character progression in Guild Wars 2 is visual. This is where ArenaNet really hit a home run. As your character becomes stronger they will need better armor and weapons."

I feel they completely missed the mark her for the first 79 levels. I made a thread awhile back showing my toon looking exactly the same at level 50 as it did at level 14. The variation in armor sub 80 is a bismal. It was a corner cut, and it's a real sore point.

Totally agree here. I had about four different choices of armor looks on both my toons sub 80. Really emphasized the repetitiveness of this game when I basically looked the same the whole way through.

But did you have fun playing the content? Remember playing Mario Brothers for fun? Looking the same all the way through the game and not caring. End game are you having fun in GW2? Is the content well done? What does it matter if you get better gear that makes you DDs 5% more powerful when the mobs have 5% more health? Thats a false progression to keep you on a gean treadmill. I agree more new styles would be nice but more powerful, no. Its time to get beck to the roots of why we played video games... fun!!!! Its the content that matters not the gear.

Yes I had fun. But it would have been even more fun with more looks to choose from. I don't play for endgame. I play these games for character progression. Gear is tied to that.

Also, I don't remember everyone playing "Super Mario" for "fun" past the first few times. After that it was how far you could get.

It is getting really old when people keep using that as some sort of deflection.

And for the record, yes, Galaga was fun, Space Invaders was fun. But the drive to keep playing them was to see how far you could progress. Fun is something that happens along the way. It is a by-product, not the goal in itself.