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Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

The problem is that at the high school level their stats are so high that what previously didn't work on MSer now works. For example you don't see people getting service aces on the top MSers in POT outside of ZSS (a very dangerous move) but Ochi's Mach Serve (with no apparent drawback) seems to be able to get an ace even on Yukimura, so there's nothing to suggest previous techniques to deal with power shots would work on Duke's power level. If Mach Serve allegedly can score on Yukimura then there's nothing saying Duke Homerun won't send Yukimura flying either.

Fuji has history with dealing with power types. Kawamura returned the plain old Hado ball for him in the doubles match against Fudomine, suggesting that returning power shots is a weakness for Fuji.

Honestly the best way to deal with Duke type player is that you simply roll out of the way when they do their power shot. Historically power shots uses an extreme amount of energy and it's unlikely to be sustained for 24 points in a row. In a 3 set match you'd have to it 48 times and that's probably not sustainable. Duke was sweating some against Gin and presumably that game didn't last very long at all. You can pretty much just treat Duke Homerun like a ZSS and just forfeit these points, because it's not a move that can be sustained for the entire duration of the match. But POT characters have a tendency of attempting to return every shot in their way even when it'd be hazardous to your health. Out of all the top characters I only see Yukimura possibly doing that, since he seems to be someone who is interested in winning at all costs. He told Sanada to not go head to head against TPhantom so I can see he just decide not to go head to head against Duke Homeruns if he's reasonably sure that Duke will tire himself out, especially if it's a 3 set match.

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

I feel like while Technique beats Power, there is a certain point where no matter how much Technique you have, Power will beat you. Probably why Konomi only has Power players play other Power players.

There's actually a tendency of power beating technique (i.e. Fuji can't return regular Hado ball) which is probably why power players only play other power players. I suspect this is because power shots leads to one shot KOs. If you can't return a ZSS it's just one point. If you get hit by a Duke Homerun you can possibly die from it.

For whatever reason, the technique players haven't come to the conclusion that they should just dive out of the way when a power shot is coming. You don't dislocate your joints to return Atobe Kingdom unless it's the match point so the same logic should be applied to power shots, knowing that getting hit by one can very well end the game immediately. It's clear the top power shots are nowhere near sustainable over a set let alone a 3 set match. Just treat the power shots like ZSS (all the power shots seem to have rather visible cues) as points you cannot possibly salvage.

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

You could just do what Ryoma did with Big Bang. Duke will tire out as he hits constantly Duke Homeruns right? After some points, his power will be weakened, then for example a player like Yukimura or Ryoma could avoid hitting that shot and after three games the power won't be different, then go ahead and return the shot. Duke has nothing but Duke Homerun, so returning the shot will ensure you the win, because he seems to be rather slow and not have much technique at all, once you return Duke's special technique, you'll win (or Duke has an even more powerful technique, but thats highly unlikely).

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

Originally Posted by Phantron

There's actually a tendency of power beating technique (i.e. Fuji can't return regular Hado ball) which is probably why power players only play other power players. I suspect this is because power shots leads to one shot KOs. If you can't return a ZSS it's just one point. If you get hit by a Duke Homerun you can possibly die from it.

Where did we see that Fuji cannot return a regular Hadoukyuu?
At this stage in the story? People have been hitting back Hadoukyuu's from the baseline for ages.

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

I don't see Fuji winning against Duke. I agree with Shiraishi, if you have a lot of tech but no strength, you can't return DH. Sanada, Yuki, Akutsu have both, I see them fighting against Duke. Not Fuji.

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

Originally Posted by Airgrimes

Where did we see that Fuji cannot return a regular Hadoukyuu?
At this stage in the story? People have been hitting back Hadoukyuu's from the baseline for ages.

It's way back in the doubles against Fudomine. Kawamura hit a Hado ball that was intended for Fuji and hurt himself and ended up forfeiting the game. Sure they all improved a lot but obviously Kawamura has always been physically stronger than Fuji by a lot at every point of POT, so it implies it takes relatively little physical force to get to a point where Fuji cannot return it.

You could just do what Ryoma did with Big Bang. Duke will tire out as he hits constantly Duke Homeruns right? After some points, his power will be weakened, then for example a player like Yukimura or Ryoma could avoid hitting that shot and after three games the power won't be different, then go ahead and return the shot. Duke has nothing but Duke Homerun, so returning the shot will ensure you the win, because he seems to be rather slow and not have much technique at all, once you return Duke's special technique, you'll win (or Duke has an even more powerful technique, but thats highly unlikely).

Big Bang is a serve, while Duke Homerun is a regular hit. There's nothing stopping Duke from using Duke Homerun during any game. I'm guessing he can't use it 24 times in a row (or 48 for a 3 set match), but it's hard to say at this point. It's not out of the question that he can get some points with just serving (since they suddenly remembered serving is a big advantage in tennis) with a decent power shot for example. If you assume everyone in the G10 can return Mach Serve (otherwise it'd be pretty weird for Ochi to be ranked so low given unreturnable serve = no chance of losing in singles) then Duke certainly isn't going to be that easy to score on, and power players tends to have pretty good serves too. It doesn't have to be Mach Serve level of unreturnable, just enough so that he doesn't have to use Duke Homerun to score all his 24/48 points (DH clearly tires him out looking at the game against Gin)

Remember Ryoma was playing someone who is incapable of scoring on him besides from serves. Duke, although he's a power player, is certainly not that weak. Duke can simply follow a strategy of playing normally until the opponent gets 30 and then do 4 Homeruns in a row in the worst case (if it was 30-0). Although POT certainly doesn't show you what happens every point, Duke is clearly capable of scoring some points by the virtue of his extremely high ranking.

As an aside you got to avoid Duke Homerun completely. It's not enough to 'fail to return it' because that'd get you KOed. Characters like Yukimura or Ryoma are nowhere close to Gin in terms of power + endurance total so there's no way they can take a hit from Duke Homerun.

It's not clear to me if Ryoma will avoid it since he tends to fight shots head-on Sanada style. Yukimura is the only person who seems to be willing to make a strategic retreat out of the top tier MSers.

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

Originally Posted by Phantron

It's way back in the doubles against Fudomine. Kawamura hit a Hado ball that was intended for Fuji and hurt himself and ended up forfeiting the game. Sure they all improved a lot but obviously Kawamura has always been physically stronger than Fuji by a lot at every point of POT, so it implies it takes relatively little physical force to get to a point where Fuji cannot return it.

Fuji wasn't afraid of the shot.
We don't know if Fuji cannot return it. Fuji was about to return it.

Kawamura just knows that out of the two of them, he would be the best in being able to return it, with what could possibly be an even more powerful shot.

At this stage in the story Phantron, All Top tiers will eat away at regular Hadoukyuu. Be serious.
The Hadoukyuus can all be returned with technique. Otherwise Tanegashima would be No.3 and Duke the No.2.

Re: can any middel school beat the number 3 stringer duke?

Originally Posted by Airgrimes

Byoudouin shattered a wall, sent Tokugawa flying and made him look pathetic.
Ryoga walks in casually and returns that same serve.

Technique can always neutralize power.

This is only true if you assume that Ryoga doesn't have a good power stat, which we don't know about. He doesn't look like Duke or Gin, but Kintarou and Krauser don't exactly look like power players either (especially the latter).

Originally Posted by Airgrimes

At this stage in the story Phantron, All Top tiers will eat away at regular Hadoukyuu. Be serious.
The Hadoukyuus can all be returned with technique. Otherwise Tanegashima would be No.3 and Duke the No.2.

Not necessarily. It's always possible that he can seal Duke Homerun in some way and doesn't need to return it. It's hard to say before we see his abilities.

Furthermore, I don't really see Fuji or other physically weaker characters return a high leveled Hadokyuu. Do I think he's stronger than Kawamura or Gin overall? Yeah, probably.

This is only true if you assume that Ryoga doesn't have a good power stat, which we don't know about. He doesn't look like Duke or Gin, but Kintarou and Krauser don't exactly look like power players either (especially the latter).

According to the databooks neither Krauser nor Kintaro have been stated to be Power Players.

I reckon if Technique couldn't neutralize Power, Oni wouldn't have gone on to go further than BJK with Kaji but again although I don't think he does I have nothing to actually say Kaji has a lower Power stat.

Although with Date all the way back in No.12 back when he was a 1st Stringer, I think it's cited that Power can be neutralized.
Since Mouri could have been replaced by anybody to pair with Ochi since Ochi was the star of the show for their doubles.

I think another thread should be made regarding the HSers, since I want to know, do we assume Fuwa, Hakamada, Mitsuya and Akiba > Date or Ban or Mutsu bros. or Taira? Since they are in Singles after all.

At the moment I can't think of another clear cut example of Technique neutralizing Power...
What