Ironically, Frost would then run into the same problem that we have with Unholy. Whenever we use Plague Strike, we would be left with single Blood Runes.

I do like the idea of wanting to use our runes on HB and Obliterate. If Obliterate only required Frost Fever to do max damage, then maybe it would work.

This is were my wish to get rid of Plague Strike for Frost DKs would become handy. I would like if they would implement a way to use deathcoil as frost. But one which is not affected by RNG, Frost already has enough of that.

Maybe something like:

Sub Zero
Everytime you cast Howling Blast, Icy Touch or use Froststrike, you gain a stack of "Cooling down." After you reach three stacks, your next Deathcoil will cost 10 Runic Power, deals shadowfrostdamage and will be empowered by xyz%

Easy fix: Remove perma-Death Runes, make Obliterate cost BU instead of FU. This also makes DW and 2H both want to use HB and Ob.
Unholy has an ability that uses its off-spec (not Unholy) runes. Blood has an ability that uses its off-spec (not Blood) runes. Both are used rotationally. Bring Obliterate into the new age.

Yea thats how it used to be(using the nonspec runes) with blood strike. But then the rotation was so god damn awful in cata that the perma death runes got band-aided in and when there should have been a legit fix going into mop they just kept it the way it was. Their poor design and shitty excuses as to why they won't do things for pve/pvp is exactly why this game is going down the shitter...only problem is people need better competition and sadly there isnt anything out there up to wows standards(which arent high to begin with) and developers still cant get it right...its quite pathetic actually...Wow has actually ruined this genre and it will need a game like wow was in vanilla to fix it again.

I have to agree with the person who said that spending KM procs on OB as frost with a 2h feels extremely annoying.

Most of the time when KM goes off I find OB is often on CD and my only option is to hit with FS for a weak hit or face waiting for runes to cycle.

The dual wield using FS on KM feels nicer but sadly I lack decent one handed weapons to even make that a viable option, so it looks like I am going to be forced into Unholy or be left with the regular frustration of seeing KM light up with the OB button dark.

I have to agree with the person who said that spending KM procs on OB as frost with a 2h feels extremely annoying.

Most of the time when KM goes off I find OB is often on CD and my only option is to hit with FS for a weak hit or face waiting for runes to cycle.

The dual wield using FS on KM feels nicer but sadly I lack decent one handed weapons to even make that a viable option, so it looks like I am going to be forced into Unholy or be left with the regular frustration of seeing KM light up with the OB button dark.

Once unholy has its QOL fixes I see it being pretty much dw frost > unholy > 2h frost. I too am getting tired of 2h with the randomness and when it does finally go off I had either just hit my FS so it takes that or I had just hit OB before it proc'd and now have to sit or just hit FS anyways. I feel the changes should be opposite imo. DW should focus on OB and 2H on FS....back when mastery stacking was cool in cata it was 2h for masterfrost and dw was hastefrost. Don't know why they changed that.

Remove the Obliterate damage bonus from Might of the Frozen Wastes and the Frost Strike damage bonus from Threat of Thassarian.

Increase Frost Strike-damage by 30% and Obliterate-damage by 10% for Frost passively. Let Obliterate ignore 15% armor per diseases on the target.

[LIST]

2h is weak on heavy armor but very strong versus light armor. DW is quite good against heavy and light armor, but not so good as 2h versus light armor. DW is a lot better versus heavy armor (espesially holy paladins).
Something like this (mentioned in the list above) would make both DW and 2h good against all classes. The new Might of the Frozen Wastes and Threat of Thassarian since MOP is the most stupid change Blizzard ever made. I feel forced to DW when i want to use 2h.
.

Those and :

Frost -

Soul Reaper Cost remains the same. 2 Charges, 10 sec CD
Requires Melee Weapon
Strikes an enemy for 140% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. After 5 sec, if the target is below 35% health, this effect will deal X (Increase damage by 15%) additional Shadowfrost damage. If the enemy dies before this effect triggers, the Death Knight gains 50% haste and 10% Strength for 10 sec.

- Stronger execute that works with both shadow and frost mastery. 2 Charges so players and use one on an add so they can get the added strength when DPS a boss or another player.

Withering Soul
Passive
Howling Blast and Frost Strikes has a x chance (increased by mastery) to place a Freezing Soul Disease on the Target, Stacks, max of 5 on the Target. At 5 stacks Freezing Soul transfroms into Frozen Soul.

Frozen Soul
Passive
Your Next Obliterate or Frost Strike will ignore all armor, Deal 70% increased Damage and and stun the target for 1.3 Seconds

Unholy -

Master of Ghouls
Passive
Reduces the cooldown on Raise Dead by 60 sec, Summons two Ghouls, and the Ghouls summoned by your Raise Dead spell is considered a pet under your control. Unlike normal Death Knight Ghouls, your pets does not have a limited duration.

-Changed to 2 ghouls, both will benefit from shadow infusion and a nice favor change.

Dead Soul
Passive
Your Festering Strikes and Scourge Strikes have a 25% (increase by 25% for each disease on the target) to summon a Skeleton Guardian, Skeleton Guardian will attack any target your ghouls are attacking and will last until killed. Max of 5.

Skeleton Guardian
70k HP
No Abilities
Can only Melee attack. All damage will be shadow, Movement speed and Melee haste increased by 10% for each Skeleton Guardian in a 20 yard radius.

Bring back Wandering Plague

Wandering Plague
When your diseases damage an enemy, there is a chance equal to your melee critical strike chance that the wil cause X% additional damage to the target and all enemies within 8 yards. Ignores any target under the effect of a spell that is cancelled by taking damage.
- Better AOE Damage

Increase Death coil damage by 10%, bring back the dot caused by Death coil (10% more damage done over 10 secs) or have the dot increase the Diseases haste (more ticks)

Increase minions/pets Hp, Haste and armor by another 12%

No Rune Cost for Dark Transformation and off the GCD or Make it automatic when he hits 5 stacks.

when transformed timmy's CD are reset and All of timmys damages becomes shadow damage

Mastery changed to :
Increases all Shadow damage done by 20% and Increases the damage done by your pets and minions by 10%. Each point of Mastery increases pet damage by an additional 2%

Death and decay replaced with
Defile
Corrupts the ground targeted by the Death Knight, causing Shadow damage every sec to targets that remain in the area for 10 secs. Any enemies damaged within this area will cause the area to grow (Max of 50% larger) and increase to duration by 1 sec (max of 18 secs)
30 sec CD

-------------------------------------------------------------

IMO Blood is all about using the blood of your enemies to heal yourself, Frost is a melee frost mage, Unholy should be about summoning ghouls and strong diseases.

I mostly play pvp in my Frost DK (BGs ofcourse as arena for caps not really entertaining getting beating in 3 sec by a warrior pressing 1 thing to activate god mode and you neither can run from that nor try to kill him before he kills you because he got too much abilities to survive ) what i suggest IMO is:

1- adding some change to death grip to make the DK more fun which you can actually pull any friendly target like your teammate ... this is just to make DK more fun to play ... my main reason i still play as dk is death grip it's just fun to do even though you pull a warrior to kill you

2- some abilities need to be with no runic power such as Icebound Fortitude, silence and so on as other classes have these things with no cost

3- definitely any surviving ability against physical damage such as disarm or any defensive CD just to survive against others Offensive CDs (disarm should be there along time ago as other melee classes have this ability even priests and warlocks can disarm)

4- talents need serious changes as tier 1 talents are jokes... they should move tier 6 to be tier 1 and they come up with something else that can actually be used

the changes they made to DK for 5.2 is like saying we're not going to change anything to DKs because ( "they listened to us before" <-- like 3yrs ago ) ... not sure about unholy changes but I hate the idea of using pets and i don't see my self switching to unholy even if it's OP ... my first character was hunter, it was good till BM spec become the only spec to use.

Now that we no longer have Blood Tap as a baseline ability, PoF's really annoying to use sometimes. And not only that, but I'm pretty sure Frost will be the only spec in the game in 5.2 with an actual resource cost an a cooldown.

Frost is perfectly fine if you're using Blood Tap currently (In my opinion). As for Unholy, perhaps UF should reduce the GCD by .2s during it's duration like AR. Other than that, the UH changes are enough to make me go back to it for progression.

Perhaps they could give a small buff to 2h Frost's AoE, as it currently stands it will be the worst spec in 5.2 with DW and Unholy being basically identical. Possibly something to make RE and RC more viable atm too, Blood Tap just dominates currently regardless your spec because of proc gaming.

Frost is perfectly fine if you're using Blood Tap currently (In my opinion). As for Unholy, perhaps UF should reduce the GCD by .2s during it's duration like AR. Other than that, the UH changes are enough to make me go back to it for progression.

Perhaps they could give a small buff to 2h Frost's AoE, as it currently stands it will be the worst spec in 5.2 with DW and Unholy being basically identical. Possibly something to make RE and RC more viable atm too, Blood Tap just dominates currently regardless your spec because of proc gaming.

No, they should remove the Frost Strike damage bonus from ToT and the Obliterate damage bonus from MotFW and make 2h and DW only a cosmetic option once again. Increase FS damage by 30% and Obliterate damage by 10% for Frost passively. Make Obliterate ignore 10% armor per diseases on the target.
Either that or remove the in-combat CD for ToT and MotFW. So that we could change weapons depending on oppnment even in combat. But that would just be even more stupid then it is now.
Changing ToT and MotFW is the most stupid change blizzard did to Frost DK's with MoP and 5.0.
Some people like 2h becuase THEY CAN CRIT 1400K... ON CLOTH TARGETS!!!! AND 1K ON HOLY PALADINS.

I miss 2h masterfrost from cata!

Feel forced to DW to do well in pvp now. 2h is good versus light armor but quite bad compared to DW versus heavy armor.

How do u manage to pvp with DW ? We are so squishy i spend most of my time in blood stance and thus having that FS cost not reduced. On top of it if my OB hits for noodles because i'm DW specced i'm gonna shoot myself in the butt.
UH is great for that i could be in blood stance and still do fine, just need to manage my runes better.

How do u manage to pvp with DW ? We are so squishy i spend most of my time in blood stance and thus having that FS cost not reduced. On top of it if my OB hits for noodles because i'm DW specced i'm gonna shoot myself in the butt.
UH is great for that i could be in blood stance and still do fine, just need to manage my runes better.

DW uses HB and PS on most target in pvp. Because your main-skill is a single-rune ability you'll have much more runes for chains and other rune abilities. I use a macro (/cast @focus Chains) in arena all the time and that wouldn't be possible with 2h because you would lose too much dps due to it only reallies on Obliterate which is a double-rune skill. DW is much stronger versus heavy armor and quite good versus light armor, not as good versus light armor as 2h but the gap isn't as big as with 2h from light to heavy armor.

I want to use 2h because i miss cata 2h masterfrost a lot. But since 2h is weak versus heavy armor and has lots of downtime compared to DW i just can't do it.

I can crit 70k on Holy paldins with Frost Strike and Howling Blast with all CD's. 2h's Obliterate is nowhere near that on holy paladins (and other heavy armor classes).

But there are some flaws... i want the increase my mastery so i can increase my shadow dmg too, to be fair how about 2% pet dmg, 1% shadow dmg for each point of mastery. Like the idea of DS making the pets deal shadow dmg, good burst. Pets need survival buff, they die too much.

Soul Reaper Cost remains the same. 2 Charges, 10 sec CD
Requires Melee Weapon
Strikes an enemy for 140% weapon damage and afflicts the target with Soul Reaper. After 5 sec, if the target is below 35% health, this effect will deal X (Increase damage by 15%) additional Shadowfrost damage. If the enemy dies before this effect triggers, the Death Knight gains 50% haste and 10% Strength for 10 sec.

50% haste for 10 seconds would alone be enough. 10% str is just too much, especially when it's supposed to be a compensation in case SR doesn't get to tick.

Originally Posted by the0o

Withering Soul
Passive
Howling Blast and Frost Strikes has a x chance (increased by mastery) to place a Freezing Soul Disease on the Target, Stacks, max of 5 on the Target. At 5 stacks Freezing Soul transfroms into Frozen Soul.

Not sure where to go with this. Mastery, HB and FS, really? Extreme bias for dw... and the proc just doesn't make much sense. Disease damage has always been a trivial thing for frost.

Originally Posted by the0o

Frozen Soul
Passive
Your Next Obliterate or Frost Strike will ignore all armor, Deal 70% increased Damage and and stun the target for 1.3 Seconds

I had quite a few things to say about this one, but: 70% increase OB that stuns. Wat?

Originally Posted by the0o

Master of Ghouls
Passive
Reduces the cooldown on Raise Dead by 60 sec, Summons two Ghouls, and the Ghouls summoned by your Raise Dead spell is considered a pet under your control. Unlike normal Death Knight Ghouls, your pets does not have a limited duration.

-Changed to 2 ghouls, both will benefit from shadow infusion and a nice favor change.

No thanks, just a flavour change. And more clutter.

Originally Posted by the0o

Dead Soul
Passive
Your Festering Strikes and Scourge Strikes have a 25% (increase by 25% for each disease on the target) to summon a Skeleton Guardian, Skeleton Guardian will attack any target your ghouls are attacking and will last until killed. Max of 5.

Skeleton Guardian
70k HP
No Abilities
Can only Melee attack. All damage will be shadow, Movement speed and Melee haste increased by 10% for each Skeleton Guardian in a 20 yard radius.

Clunky beyond believe. Either the it has an abysmal % proc, low dura, or pretty much anything it has, what it causes is nerfs to our damage, and that's based on full procs. The last thing UH needs is a even more massive ramp-up. Not to mention, I don't want any more clutter.

Originally Posted by the0o

Wandering Plague
When your diseases damage an enemy, there is a chance equal to your melee critical strike chance that the wil cause X% additional damage to the target and all enemies within 8 yards. Ignores any target under the effect of a spell that is cancelled by taking damage.
- Better AOE Damage

WP is way, way too OP. Sustained AoE would become ridiculous.

Originally Posted by the0o

Increase Death coil damage by 10%, bring back the dot caused by Death coil (10% more damage done over 10 secs) or have the dot increase the Diseases haste (more ticks)

1. Increase minions/pets Hp, Haste and armor by another 12%

2. No Rune Cost for Dark Transformation and off the GCD or Make it automatic when he hits 5 stacks.

3. when transformed timmy's CD are reset and All of timmys damages becomes shadow damage

4. Mastery changed to :
Increases all Shadow damage done by 20% and Increases the damage done by your pets and minions by 10%. Each point of Mastery increases pet damage by an additional 2%

Death and decay replaced with
Defile
Corrupts the ground targeted by the Death Knight, causing Shadow damage every sec to targets that remain in the area for 10 secs. Any enemies damaged within this area will cause the area to grow (Max of 50% larger) and increase to duration by 1 sec (max of 18 secs)
30 sec CD

-------------------------------------------------------------

IMO Blood is all about using the blood of your enemies to heal yourself, Frost is a melee frost mage, Unholy should be about summoning ghouls and strong diseases.

IMO Frost's rotation is missing something and unholy is too chunky, My intentions would be to add something to frost (a filler attack or a passive) and increase unholy disease and pet damage and also remove some of the "fat". My ideas however need a some work

IMO Frost's rotation is missing something and unholy is too chunky, My intentions would be to add something to frost (a filler attack or a passive) and increase unholy disease and pet damage and also remove some of the "fat". My ideas however need a some work

how would you fix it?

(the following response is related to pvp)

Up strikes lower disease dmg, and YES bring back wandering plague, i really hate how i got my short stubby sword (malevolent gladiator sword, not gonna transmog because they are hard to get) and my HUGE SET (S12) and i go up to someone and throw out a wimpy strike (SS) that deals 5% of the opponents health (9k physical 5k shadow) while my diseases are doing 80% of my work, maybe my pet as well and my GCD is extremely fast thus making us unholys feel like a shadowy rogue with a pet (well, of course were squishy as well, but i don't want to get off to a different subject).

What i want is 1.5 GCD, i want to feel like a pain train going to throw out a massive scourge hit doing at least 40% of the opponent's hp as a crit with full cds and berserker buff with slow attacks, and for the love of mercy.... bring back desecration and lower disease dmg, its the only reason unholys are topping the charts, if not the arena charts.

Unholy's current play style is sooo crappy, its just hard to put into words (that was nothing what i just said in the above paragraphs).

Up strikes lower disease dmg, and YES bring back wandering plague, i really hate how i got my short stubby sword (malevolent gladiator sword, not gonna transmog because they are hard to get) and my HUGE SET (S12) and i go up to someone and throw out a wimpy strike (SS) that deals 5% of the opponents health (9k physical 5k shadow) while my diseases are doing 80% of my work, maybe my pet as well and my GCD is extremely fast thus making us unholys feel like a shadowy rogue with a pet (well, of course were squishy as well, but i don't want to get off to a different subject).

What i want is 1.5 GCD, i want to feel like a pain train going to throw out a massive scourge hit doing at least 40% of the opponent's hp as a crit with full cds and berserker buff with slow attacks, and for the love of mercy.... bring back desecration and lower disease dmg, its the only reason unholys are topping the charts, if not the arena charts.

Unholy's current play style is sooo crappy, its just hard to put into words (that was nothing what i just said in the above paragraphs).

That's not Unholy's niche, that's Frost's.

I personally did like Unholy's playstyle in S8, though, with the massive (sometimes critting up to 5k) Death Coils.