It will be some time before I settle on what is going on. The Russian press during a conflict is not always trustworthy.

I will be surprised if our country would "take Georgia and its oil." The pattern of which you speak rest on far too many assumptions. History becomes far more reliable than current events when a broader range of source data becomes more accessible, which is why I prefer it. I am far more cynical with politics and current events.

The Russian press is probably no more untrustworthy than most of the American media is. If you don't think we have a controlled, agenda driven media, just recall the near total blackout of the massive Right To Life march in Washington DC earlier this year.

Re: Russia And Georgia At War In South Ossetia
[Re: Lawrence]
#29712908/11/0809:34 PM08/11/0809:34 PM

Pravda, for example, is far less reliable covering the war than the American media would be by ignoring the march. One of the justifications made for pushing the war into Georgian boarders involving the foreign influences, can be misleading. It could be used to further the war when official involvement is assumed to be implicit.

But, this is where I remain skeptical: the connection to "official" involvement through covert operations has yet to be proved. There are too many private mercenary companies which can be hired without any involvement or approval of the United States.

If ITAR-TASS or Pravda claims or suggests American involvement, I cannot take them at their word.

Thank you for your words to Maria. I am not the brightest nor am I the most diplomatic ( usually, I have said what I have not really wanted in messages or to put it simply, "I open my mouth just to change feet

Shchera Podjaka/ Heartfelt thanks Z BohomKolya

Re: Russia And Georgia At War In South Ossetia
[Re: Garajotsi]
#29716608/12/0809:35 AM08/12/0809:35 AM

Most news reports are now saying that Russia has called off it's counter offensive into Georgia, which I think we can all agree is good news. It's a shame that sinister outside influences brought on this confrontation, and I hope the Georgians will seriously reconsider membership in NATO. After there disgraceful actions in Kosovo and Macedonia, I would hope that all Christians, especially Orthodox ones, as 82 pct of Georgians reputedly are, would consider support for NATO anathema.

Re: Russia And Georgia At War In South Ossetia
[Re: Lawrence]
#29716708/12/0810:25 AM08/12/0810:25 AM

Kyiv— During a Liturgy celebrated on 9 August 2008 by Metropolitan Ahafanhel (Savin) of Odesa and Izmail of the Ukrainian Orthodox Church Moscow Patriarchate (UOC-MP), with the blessing of the metropolitan an intention was added “for the repose of the souls of Russian peace-keepers and all those who died in South Ossetia at the hands of Georgian aggressors.”

According to religare.ru, Metropolitan Ahafanhel himself also celebrated a service for the repose of the souls of those who died in South Ossetia.

The small choir stood in their flowing gold robes in the front of the sanctuary on Sunday morning, chanting in the language of the country many of them had emigrated from. Women and men walked slowly to the front of the narrow hall to light yellow prayer candles and kiss the portrait of Saint George, who, according to legend, killed a dragon terrorizing a small town.

So many people came to pray at St. Nino's Georgian Orthodox Church in Brooklyn that some were forced to kneel in the doorway and the lobby.

Throughout the three-hour liturgy, a steady rotation of parishioners left the room to make phone calls, desperate to reach their families in Georgia. At noon, a group of women in long skirts and head scarves huddled around a cellphone. They all began to sob.

"Just now, another bomb," said Nino Gordadze, 54, when she hung up after speaking with her daughter, who was in Tbilisi, Georgia's capital. She wiped the smudged eyeliner from her temple. "My family,I'm worried," she said.

What would have been a typical weekend of religious worship became a grim vigil for many in the small community of New Yorkers whose roots are in Georgia, the country in the Caucasus torn by violence since Friday, when its troops started battling military forces from neighboring Russia.

At evening vespers on Saturday, in a rally at the United Nations that followed and at Sunday services, Georgians worried over the fate of family and friends thousands of miles away and expressed outrage at Russian forces who had entered their country.

"Everyone is angry, everyone is afraid for their relatives," said the Rev. Alexander Tandilashvili, the pastor of St. Nino's, who added prayers for peace to this weekend's services. "For now, there is nothing better we can do."

After bombing Georgian targets on Friday, Russia sent ground troops into South Ossetia and Abkhazia, separatist regions in Georgia that have support from Moscow. The Georgian government insists that those regions are part of Georgia. On Sunday, Russian forces advanced beyond South Ossetia and started a direct assault on Gori, a city in central Georgia.

There are about 5,000 Georgian immigrants in New York City, thelargest enclave in the United States, according to the GeorgianConsulate in New York. They are mostly concentrated in Brooklyn, and many of them work in construction and caring for the elderly. Since the conflict began, many of the Georgians in New York have been gathering to support one another, to share information and to protest.

After prayers at St. Nino's on Saturday night, many parishioners traveled to Manhattan and joined with others at United Nations Plaza, carrying signs reading "Hands off Georgia" and "Stop Evil Russia." They chanted "Cease fire" and "Stop the war" in Georgian. Some members of St. Nino's choir formed a circle and sang.

Shota Maisuradze, 24, stood with a Georgian flag draped over his shoulders and an American flag tied in a knot around his neck. Mr. Maisuradze said he had traveled from Philadelphia for the protest. He has relatives in Tbilisi. "For now," he said, "they're O.K."

Like other Georgians, Mr. Maisuradze feared that Georgia's small population - under five million - would not be able to fend off the large Russian Army.

"They can overpower us so easily," he said.

Luka Abutidze, 11, said he hoped New Yorkers would sympathize.

"New York has a bigger population than the whole entire nation of Georgia," he said. "Think about if New York was getting bombed, how would you feel?"

Over the weekend, Georgians who were interviewed said their country desperately needed international support and perhaps direct intervention.

"The U.N., and the rest of the world, is on Georgia's side, but there is no action," said Ana Kovziridze, 21, who started the Georgian Student Association at Baruch College. "And innocent civilians keep getting killed."

At St. Nino's Church on Sunday, parishioners focused on finding out as much as they could about what was happening in Georgia. "Have you heard anything?" they asked each other in the halls. "Did you talk to your father?"

The attacks occurred as St. Nino's prepares to celebrate its fifth anniversary on Aug. 28. Father Tandilashvili said members of the congregation had finally raised enough money to buy land and build their own church. For now, they rent a room on the third floor of a Roman Catholic school in Williamsburg.

Tamari Japaridze, a member of the church who attended vespers on Saturday, said she had been calling her family in Tbilisi every hour, starting at 6 a.m., when she wakes up, until 4 p.m., when they go to sleep. Her nephew, a police officer, is among those being called to military duty, she said, adding that other young men were eager to join the fight.

(Georgian TV website that has been moved to Atlanta, Georgia,USA, due Russian hacking into .ge sites.)

Patriarch urges nation to pray10.08.08 16:30

Georgian Catholicos Patriarch Illia II spoke about the political crisis in Georgia in His Sunday Preachment today. The Patriarch expressed his concern that Orthodox Russians were bombing Orthodox Georgians and that such aggression had never occurred in the history of two nations. ''Indeed, we are facing very serious peril, but don't be afraid of anything, God is with us and Virgin Mary is protecting is, but one thing concerns us very deeply that Orthodox Russians arebombing Orthodox Georgians. This is unprecedented act of relations between our countries. Reinforce your prayer and God will save Georgia. There is a saying ''Water will flow up and down and will return to its weir. So, believe that God will not separate Georgia into pieces,'' Patriarch declared.

Notice that unlike the Moscow Patriarchate hierarch, the Georgian Patriarch does not see fit to demonize the Russian soldiers. A more fitting Christian attitude I think.

Re: Russia And Georgia At War In South Ossetia
[Re: Orest]
#29719708/12/0806:46 PM08/12/0806:46 PM

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