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On April 6, 2006, for some unknown reason, I chatted with a guy online and then decided to meet him. God knows what I was thinking. This is what we did:

1. He licked and sucked my fingers, neck and nipples.

2. I licked his nipples and sucked on his neck.

3. I touched his balls only (not his penis). He didn't touch any part of my penis.

4. He masturbated while all this was going on. I didn't. While he was masturbating, some of his precum (and possibly some cum) fell on my trousers.

5. After about 5 minutes after this incident, I went to the bathroom and applied water using my right hand on the area of my trousers where his precum/cum was and then like an idiot masturbated using the same right hand.

The most worrisome incident is No.5.

Obviously, while applying water, my fingers came into contact with the pre-cum/cum a few times (albeit 5 minutes after it landed on my trousers). By that time it appeared to have dried a little bit but not completely. I know this as my fingers felt a little sticky while applying the water. I did not clean my hands with soap after taking the last rub on my trousers; instead I went directly to the urinal to take my penis out of the underwear to urinate (and masturbate). This is the biggest mistake I made. At that point, i should have cleaned my hand with soap and water.

I have redone the sequence at home about 20 more times now to see which part of my finger came in touch with which part of my penis. I found that most likely the tip of my index finger came into contact with the fold of my foreskin (UNCIRCUMCIZED) while taking the penis out of the underwear and could have touched the urethra while pushing it back in. I read the the layer of foreskin in uncircumcized men is a mucous membrane which readily absorbs HIV.

So it may be possible that was exposed to HIV given the possible high concentration of the virus on my trousers, lack of washing my hands properly with soap and touching my uncirumcized foreskin.

You were told repeatedly in the old forum that you never had a risk of hiv infection in what you brought to us. It was suggested that you seek professional help, but you told us it wouldn't help you. I don't know what else we can possibly do for you here.

We will still give Time Outs in this new forum and you are very close to being given one.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I dont know why whenever I post here I am threatened with a timeout. My understanding was this was a public forum not a dictatorship. Anyways, nevermind. I hardly post here these days. If you look carefully, I have posted 3 times in the last 4 weeks.

I have also come to understand that barring a starightforward exposure like unprotected intercourse, the risk assesment here is always going to be "No Risk". This is not always true as you all know perhaps. Unfortunately, if someone tests positive by unconventional means, he is either termed a liar or its assumed that he is hiding/forgetting risky exposures.

So if the worst possible outcome does happen for me, I am sure people will feel I had receptive anal or something outrageous like that. The most tragic part of my incident is that based on your advice and recommendations, I have had unprotected sex with my wife after my incident to pursue pregnancy. Now she is not feeling well and I may have infected her if I am positive.

For folks living in USA, HIV is manageable with ready access to drugs. For people from porr third world countries like myself (I am in USA on a visa), life is not that easy. Not only will be thrown out of USA but will be left helpless to face the enormous stigma this disease carries in my home country. Drugs are out of question. Any thought of suicide is looked down upon here but being in my shoes, that remains the only option.

Perhaps I will be banned from this website for saying all this. Well, that may be rehersal for the ban from life in general that I am probably going to face in a few weeks. I am looking forward to the Soccer World Cup to deviate my attention for the next 4 weeks. Ironically, the event ends on the 13th week of my exposure. After that, who knows?

If you wish to continue to beat yourself up over a no risk exposure, then so be it. We have learned in the twenty five years of this pandemic what constitutes a risk of infection and what doesn't. Your situation doesn't even come close. I'm sorry if that's not what you want to hear, but it's the truth.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Something is seriously wrong now. My wife is feeling extremely lethargic and suffering from occasional back pain the last few days. As you know, I have had unprotected sex with her in hopes of getting her pregnant. I wish I hadn't. At least an angel like her could have been spared.

Are you guys ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN that I did not contract HIV from my exposure as I mentioned?

I am sorry you cannot accept the sage and grounded scientific data offered on this forum. I fail to see what good we can do for you, since you cannot accept what we offer.

I sincerely wish you and your family the best of health.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

This website has become my lifeblood and I can't think of disregarding it under any circumstances. Its only after I was advised that I don't have anything to worry about my exposure did I resume sex with my wife. I specifically asked this question in the old forum "Can I continue with my pregnancy endevors?" and I was told "YES".

I did and now that my wife is showing ARS related symtoms, I am freaking out. As far as I am concerned, I am a almost 10 weeks into my window period where as for my wife, the window period starts allover again each time we have sex. I did not have any major symptoms and coupled with the advice I got here, I felt I was safe. Now after all this, I won't be able to handle a positive result.

All along, I had hidden my exposure from my wife but I couldn't any longer. I didn't tell her the complete story but I told her that my trousers brushed against some semen in a public restroom and the remiander of the story exactly how it happened. She initially didn't seem to be too concerned about it but she freaks out now each time I ask to check her temperature or call her from work every hour to see how she is doing healthwise.

Agreed. But not because of HIV... because your guilt has taken control of your life. I submit that this site is not a life blood, but rather a toxin. You have to move past this irrational fear of HIV, and I do not think that continuing here will allow that.

I respectfully withdraw from the conversation.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Here's what I would suggest you do. Go have an hiv test done. You will receive a negative result and hopefully this will put your fears to rest. If it doesn't, then it will be time for you to seek the assistance of a mental health care professional to help you get past this.

You do realise, don't you, that fatigue is a very common symptom of early pregnancy? And back pain has nothing to do with hiv, no way, no how.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I don't know how many times or ways you need to be told that you had no risk of HIV transmission in the incident you are concerned about. NO RISK!!!! NONE WHATSOEVER!

On one hand you thank us and tell us this is your lifeline and on the other hand you just trotting out more of the same crap your head is churning out analyzing your wife's symptoms or what you are calling symptoms. All of course with absolutely no basis in HIV science of course, but that little detail isn't stopping you.

Listen up! This is not an HIV situation. Period. End of story.

The issue here is that you played a very little bit with another guy's weenie and vice versa or something in that forbidden (for you) domain. So as far as I can see this is all about guilt and shame for not only having strayed, but even worse, that it was with another guy. Well that's an issue for you to sort out in whatever way you choose to. I pity your poor wife, not because her health is at risk, but for having to put up with all the after effect of your indulging in this kind of emotional carrying on.

Frankly we have gone as far as we can here with you. This is not an HIV situation and you can save any questions or efforts to convince us otherwise. We're a lost cause here. We just aren't going to accept this as being HIV-related because yes, we do know better.

Go get yourself to a therapist or other professional and deal with the real issues. And if you're planning on becoming a parent it would be good for you to do some growing up first. This would be a good issue to deal with for starters. No kidding.

I have started searching for anonymous testing centres in my area and did find one, only thing is its open twice a week and requires appointments. They are booked till mid July it seems and they do a kind of interview before registering you for a test. The person who spoke with me on hearing my exposure told me that my exposure in general does not require testing.

However, as I was about to leave feeling assured, he added "Since i have an intact foreskin and I was exposed to gay semen and since gay men tend to lie about their status the most in order to get whatever sex they can, it would be prudent of me to get tested".

By the way, this is a government supported testing center and the person seemed to be a qualified professional (wearing a white gown like a doctor does). Should I read too much into what he said?

Needless to say, he has me worried all over again. I am not homophobic by any chance but there is something about the guy I was with on April 6 that appears fishy now. He told me that he was negative quite a few times but when I asked him to get tested with me, he verbally agreed but since then has vanished. He does not respond to emails or chat messages anymore.

<<However, as I was about to leave feeling assured, he added "Since i have an intact foreskin and I was exposed to gay semen and since gay men tend to lie about their status the most in order to get whatever sex they can, it would be prudent of me to get tested".>>

This is an example of homophobia and AIDS ignorance. I hope you are able to speak to his supervisor.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Regardless of the sexuality of the semen you can in contact with, you did NOT have a risk of hiv infection!

Please read through the posting guidelines found in the Welcome Thread.

Quote

Anyone who continues to post excessively, questioning a conclusive negative result or no-risk situation, will be subject to a four week Time Out (a temporary ban from the Forums). The purpose of a Time Out is to encourage you to seek the face-to-face help we cannot provide on this forum.

The only thing you are at risk of is earning yourself a four week time out. Please consider yourself warned.

You had absolutely no risk of hiv infection and there is nothing more we can do for you here.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

It doesn't matter whether or not he was hiv positive. I think this point escapes you. But even if he was hiv positive and you repeated your encounter with him twice a day for twenty years, you would still remain hiv negative. Your activities did not put you at risk!!! No how, no way.

I ran into that guy today. He said he did get my earlier emails but had ignored them. I asked him about getting tested and he refused saying that he has tested twice recently: 3 months ago and last week. I offered him $100 for taking the test and an additional $300 if he tested negative but he refused (he had told me he is broke sometime earlier). Well, what do you think? Don't you think he is indeed HIV positve? He had the audacity to ask me if I want to do anal with condom which I refused. (I am not going to cheat my wife anymore in my lifetime). I am feeling so mad at him now.

In my state, an HIV+ person can be prosecuted if he knowingly has sex with a negative person without informing his status. Should I proceed on those lines? I am not sure if my exposure qualifies as one.

<<In my state, an HIV+ person can be prosecuted if he knowingly has sex with a negative person without informing his status. Should I proceed on those lines?>>

This is what is known as perpetuating a victim status. Were you raped? Was this a consensual act? Moreover,was there the slightest risk for HIV infection in your incident?

No, yes, and no. In that order.

Not only did you NOT have a risk for HIV, but you are now

A) acting like your partner is HIV positive when, in fact, all evidence points strongly to the opposite,

B) you have ignored ALL safer sex messages on this thread, and

C) you are actually MAD at the ONE person in the scenario who wasn't cheating on anyone, and who has suffered your paranoia with FAR more grace than I would.

Let him go. Let HIV go. Let this forum go.

And please try not to perpetuate stigma against HIV positive people in the future.

I respectfully withdraw from further communication, while I can do so with civility.

Jonathan(who does not often get irate here)

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

Its not that I am perpetuating hatred and stigma towards the HIV community. Pardon me if I have unknowingly done so. The most helpful people on this site are positive and I respect them immensely.

All I wanted to say is that there is a possibility that this person lied to me on April 6, 2006 when I had repeatedly asked him his status. He even said he got tested two weeks ago on that day. I have since tried to verify all that he told me. While some of it (like what his name, where he worked etc. may be true), some (where he lives etc. may be not). I know this as I followed his car today and saw him going in a different direction from where he said his house is. (He had told me that he was going home after he spoke to me this afternoon).

Given the inconsistencies as above, isn't it rational to suspect that this peson may have hid his HIV status? After all, why would someone who claims to be broke turn down an offer of $400 if he knows for sure he is negative?

Perhaps I am being paid for cheating on my dear wife. I wish I hadn't done all this.

You cheated on your wife, you've verbally beaten up the innocent man you cheated with and treated him like some common criminal...FOLLOWING HIM AROUND, now you want to impregnant this same wife..and proceed to BLAME this board for your own decisions of having unprotected sexual relations with her?

UNREAL.

You cheated on your wife with a man, you know what...that's the real problem here. You are bisexual or gay and the real lie is RIGHT there. You didn't get HIV, that much is certain as you've been told over and over, but you run around blaming anyone and everyone for YOUR guilt. Figure out what your sexuality is, because if you think you can go back to being 'straight' without one hell of an internal investigation you are deluded. Maybe you scared yourself silly, but clearly its not enough. Its the lie that's a problem. Doesn't your wife deserve the truth....the REAL truth. At least she'd know who she married. This lie will destroy you all.

Stop punishing everyone around you for your confusion. I don't judge your actions, or your sexual choices, but I most certainly despise your behavoir to that poor man, your wife and this forum. Shame on you.... seriously, shame on you. Your penis, your responsibility.

Its fine to ask for help, its not fine to blame everyone around you.

It wouldn't matter if the guy had HIV, what counts is the exposure...for the last time, you didn't HAVE AN EXPOSURE. I wish he'd called the cops on you for stalking. Seriously.

Please. Neither am I bisexual nor am I gay. (Not that I have anything against men who are). I am regretting my actions of April 6, 2006 every microsecond of my existence. And when did I blame this forum?

I was just concerned when my wife started feeling unwell sometime after having sex with me. Don't get me wrong. I will never put her in risk deliberately just for my own gratification or to live a "lie". Its just that I felt assured after all the experts in this forum advised me that I had no risk. If you note carefully, I did not post here for a long period between my 5th and 10th week after this exposure.

Its only when my wife felt sick did I start worrying, posting here and trying to contact that guy again and lure him to get an HIV test done. I think I had explained why I am shit scared to take the test myself. That is if found positive, both me and my wife would be deported from USA to our home country where HIV infection is considered the worst curse on mankind.

I agree that I should have confessed everything to my wife right away. But at that point she was just recoveriing from a painful miscarriage. We are still childless. I had even asked this question here (please read my thread in the old forum and the saintly Mr.Velez had adviced me against dumping my guilt on my wife. I had taken his advice, thats all.

Again, I am not blaming anyone. I know I am responsible for my actions and this is just an educational forum, not the Supreme Court of justice.

I withdraw from this thread for the same reasons as JK< except I have nowhere near his patience, kindness or tolerance.

You quote people on this site when it suits your purpose and question them when it suits your fears.

I must apologize for telling you that you are gay or bisexual.Clearly I'm wrong, but I guess I just don't know too many straight men, married with a wife, trying to have a child....who go out and have sex with men.

Please. Neither am I bisexual nor am I gay. (Not that I have anything against men who are). I am regretting my actions of April 6, 2006 every microsecond of my existence. And when did I blame this forum?

I was just concerned when my wife started feeling unwell sometime after having sex with me. Don't get me wrong. I will never put her in risk deliberately just for my own gratification or to live a "lie". Its just that I felt assured after all the experts in this forum advised me that I had no risk. If you note carefully, I did not post here for a long period between my 5th and 10th week after this exposure.

Its only when my wife felt sick did I start worrying, posting here and trying to contact that guy again and lure him to get an HIV test done. I think I had explained why I am shit scared to take the test myself. That is if found positive, both me and my wife would be deported from USA to our home country where HIV infection is considered the worst curse on mankind.

I agree that I should have confessed everything to my wife right away. But at that point she was just recoveriing from a painful miscarriage. We are still childless. I had even asked this question here (please read my thread in the old forum and the saintly Mr.Velez had adviced me against dumping my guilt on my wife. I had taken his advice, thats all.

Again, I am not blaming anyone. I know I am responsible for my actions and this is just an educational forum, not the Supreme Court of justice.

Look Seeking,

Whatever's going on, you need to sort this stuff out with your wife. Not here. Your sexual identity issues and inability to take responsibility for yourself are not things that we can help you with. It's time for you to talk to your wife and get some mental health support.

Because you and I both know that you'll do this again. I don't judge the nature of other people's relationships, but don't you think your wife should know that her husband has a tendency to sleep with men behind her back? I mean you keep talking about making babies. I think she might want to know.

Legal action would be a bad idea. I can only see it ending miserably for you. Instead spend your time and energy addressing the many issues you seem to struggling with.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

I have decided not to test and eventually face the consequences if i Test Positive. I know that in the process I may have infected my dear wife while trying for pregnancy (you all had advised I am ok to have unprotected sex with her).

I am not a US citizen and eventually I will have to pass an HIV test while applying for my Permanent Residency. The truth whatever it is will be out in the open then. I am prepared for the dire consequences in the event the worst happens. I have already identified a spot in the mountains on a not-so-busy interstate from where I can go down into the deep valley with my car making it look like an accident. That way atleast my poor wife will be eligible for the proceeds of my life insurance. I am on the lookout for a cyanide capsule too in case my car-accident plan fails.

You all have tried to help me all along and I am thankful to you all for that. Lately however, I was threatened with a ban whenever I posted and even given a month-long timeout and my thread was locked. I should have known that this website is no longer what it used to be. Not only has the look and software changed, so has the warm character and the quality of expertise. Previously, there were people like Jazz, HIVworker, RevJim, Redwingfan, Soma among others who not only were open minded but also provided sound, scientific and from-the-heart advice. Well, the current requirement of "peer-reviwed, first-tier" data was also there albeit with an open mind. New points of view and open discussions were the norm. Now, its a dictatorship. Gone are the days of real qualified sceintists in this forum. Now some prominent advisors are Worried Wells themselves (one really prominent one these days says "dont test" for insertive oral when he himself tested for the exact same exposure only a few months ago).

The advice here nowadays is risky, often dangerous. For instance the advice about no risk from exposure to vaginal fluid (risk is only from cervical fluid) bullshit. No other reputed site says this and there is no "peer-reviwed, first-tier" data to back it up either. Similarly receiving oral sex is classified as "No risk" here when the very lessons (written by Tim Horn, the only true expert here) clearly differs. The most ridiculous comment came from a so-called expert when he mentioned that the lessons were tuned to be conservative and under pressure from poz.com (which indicates that the lessons are not really true but the advice on the forum is). Yet, all new posters are directed to the same lessons. Another example is the blanket "risk of transmission from femlae to male is less than the other way round". The entire sceintific community agrees now that this is only true if the male is circumcised (a fact that is often ignored here). I dont even want to bring up the utterly wrong "No documented cases" theory as you all know that all cases of transmission are NOT DOCUMENTED. Interstingly, the same experts change their tune in the other forums like Living With and totally gloss over the "mode of transmission" there saying that its not important how you got it. Imagine how one will feel if adviced in 2 different ways in two forums on the same website and dismissed as an "anecdote" in case of an unusual mode of transmission.

I still log in nowadays from time to time hoping to see the good old posters like Jazz, Soma etc back with their sound advice. Hoping against hope i guess. Maybe I will keep doing this till my fateful testing day comes. It may come even earlier than expected if my wife does get pregnant and has to take an HIV test as part of her pre-natal care. After that, who knows?

I am trying to live my life now on a day-to-day basis knowing that any day can be the last. I wish you all the best in life.

Don't be stupid, think before you act. Doing something to yourself will not only affect your wife but your family, relatives, and friends as well.The people on these forums do know what they're talking about, so no need to put them down.Most of the people that join the forums, including myself, are paranoid and as time goes on...realise all the worrying was for no apparent reason.Most of the mods are generous, they'll bare with some people for a very long time. After a while, saying the same thing over and over becomes a little dull. Like one mentioned, they too have a life...You know, I've learned three things about life: It, Goes, On. And it should for you too...Seek some help before it's too late...

It's unfortunate that you've taken your anxiety and unfounded fears of hiv and channeled it into spewing venom at the people who volunteer their time to help others in these forums.

God forbid you should get tested and have to come here and post that negative test result.

Also, the information and advice posted in this forum has to withstand the review of all who post here, no matter what their credentials. It is self policing and stands in its own right, despite the efforts of the few fear driven who latch on to any information they find elseware to fuel their fears in spite of science to the contrary.

I would address your specific criticisms point by point, but I have better things to do than indulge this thread further. It's amazing that you can step forward and proport to criticize this site when you remain unable to grasp and assess you own risk after all your studies.

Do you find it easier to sit around contemplating your suicide than to end this obsessive misery with a simple hiv test?

I would address your specific criticisms point by point, but I have better things to do than indulge this thread further. It's amazing that you can step forward and proport to criticize this site when you remain unable to grasp and assess you own risk after all your studies.

I wholeheartedly agree. Welcome to the world of the Vengeful Worried Well.

And one of the "experts" you miss so much was a multiple account abuser, and thoroughly deceitful in her/his credentials and persona. Nice to see you found a friend though.

Logged

"Many people, especially in the gay community, turn to oral sex as a safer alternative in the age of AIDS. And with HIV rates rising, people need to remember that oral sex is safer sex. It's a reasonable alternative."

I've merged your new thread with your original so everyone can see the details of your no-risk incident. If you're seriously planning on killing yourself because some guy you met got some cum on your trousers, then please go to your local ER and let them know what you're planning. They'll get you the help you need. OK? We can't do anything more for you here.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

As you have been using PMs to get around the fact that your thread was locked, I'm giving you a time out. Do not create a new account to get around your time out, or you will be banned permanently, no questions asked.

Please seek counseling to help you come to terms with your no-risk incident. There is nothing more we can do for you here.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts