Welcome to the International Skeptics Forum, where we discuss skepticism, critical thinking, the paranormal and science in a friendly but lively way. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest, which means you are missing out on discussing matters that are of interest to you. Please consider
registering so you can gain full use of the forum features and interact with other Members. Registration is simple, fast and free! Click here to register today.

96 and climbing.
'Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country'
--old military teletype test string.

But originally it was "...to the aid of the party," in other words a call to support a narrow political interest rather than the common good. Ironic that you should be ignorant of that.

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

Apparently, because the debris is quite spread out and doesn't have any high spots to match the height of the remains of nearby buildings that parts of WTC1 and WTC2 fell on, this proves that WTC1 and WTC2 fell entirely within their own footprints. If the debris piles had been really high within the footprints, that would have proven that they fell outside their footprints. It's called proof by contradiction; the conclusion is obviously not true, therefore it's proven. I'm surprised you don't understand that already.

Dave

__________________Me: So what you're saying is that, if the load carrying ability of the lower structure is reduced to the point where it can no longer support the load above it, it will collapse without a jolt, right?

96 and climbing.
'Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country'
--old military teletype test string.

At one time all 96 (less pranksters and testers), could have been comfortably housed at the Tinley Park Mental Health Center. Unfortunately, our current underfunding of mental health will put them ranting on street corners. Such a sad state of affairs.

__________________"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)

At one time all 96 (less pranksters and testers), could have been comfortably housed at the Tinley Park Mental Health Center. Unfortunately, our current underfunding of mental health will put them ranting on street corners. Such a sad state of affairs.

133*

Another 37 nutters seem to have escaped the nuthouse and took over a local internetcafe...

Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.

Posts: 1,704

Beachnut- hats off to you, mate: you called it. fonebone only responded when I used the orange Aliens guy to ask my question. Fascinating.
So, to the reply:

Originally Posted by Fonebone

point one- I am not a member of the AE911truth and have no connection
with that group whatsoever.
I am an independent researcher and signed the petition under my own volition.

Please read my posts again- with or without the Ancient Aliens guy- and highlight any part of them where I said you were.
What I asked you was what the evidence was that AE911Truth had published, that convinced you to sign this petition. I also made the point that presenting this evidence would possibly persuade others to sign.
Just to remind you, this is what the petition says:

Quote:

Open a new investigation into the events of 911 and incorporate the forensic evidence offered by ae911truth.org.

Firstly, please link to any post of mine indicating my lack of comprehension of this "forensic evidence".
Next, that's not the evidence I'm asking for. I'm asking for AE911Truth's evidence. I assume that you, as an "independent researcher" haven't simply taken their word for it, but have actually checked to see that this evidence exists, and is valid. You wouldn't want to put your name on something that turned out to be rubbish, would you?
Finally, the "evidence" you have linked to is just you quibbling about what constitutes a footprint. In your estimation, do you think this is sufficient to galvanise the White House into action?

In answer to your question (which I am capable of answering without a Hitchens meme), yes, I would like to see more. (An unkind person might say 'any', but I am not unkind).

With tens of millions of Americans supporting 9/11 truth, it shouldn't be difficult to get this baby to 2000 - 2% of what's needed. Amazing, how AE911Truth sails from unprecedented triumph to unprecedented triumph [/SARCASM]

What if you don't really know what is right, only stick your fingers in your ears and continue to believe something such as a giant unnecessary controlled demolition, against all evidence, and act on it? That's pretty bad also, isn't it? Isn't that bearing false witness?

__________________"Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have." (Eckhart Tolle, 2004)

Bizzaro world, where spreading dumbed down lies is right?. Why do paranoid conspiracy theorists post quotes which don't match their being. If 9/11 truth followers knew what was right, there would be no 9/11 truth.

Quote:

Only through education does one come to be dissatisfied with his own knowledge, and only through teaching others does one come to realize the uncomfortable inadequacy of his knowledge. Being dissatisfied with his own knowledge, one then realizes that the trouble lies with himself, and realizing the uncomfortable inadequacy of his knowledge one then feels stimulated to improve himself. Therefore, it is said, "the processes of teaching and learning stimulate one another."
Confucius

You think your knowledge is correct... big failure.

The big lie petition, which fools gullible followers.

Quote:

Open a new investigation into the events of 911 and incorporate the forensic evidence offered by ae911truth.org.

You signed a lie.

... Is there a contest in the fantasy world of 9/11 truth for the most absurd quote relative to false claims and lies by 9/11 truth. A contest you could win

Location: Where there's never a road broader than the back of your hand.

Posts: 1,704

As fonebone seems reluctant to post the "forensic evidence" collected by AE911Truth, I took a deep breath, and went onto their website to see if I could locate it myself.
It was the first time I had been on this site, and....Oh. My. Goodness.
I clicked on the link to "evidence", and found this:http://www.ae911truth.org/news/199-n...engineers.html

Quote:

60 structural and civil engineers cite evidence for controlled demolition in collapses of all 3 WTC highrises on 9/11.

Many structural engineers, like Lomba, find the unnatural symmetry of the fall of all three skyscrapers highly suspicious.

The symmetry of collapse struck both Paul Mason, a structural engineer in Melbourne, Australia, and Dennis Kollar, P.E., a structural engineer in Wisconsin, as disconcerting. Kollar remains troubled by the “totality and uniformity of the destruction” and by the fact that “the mass of debris remained centered on the building core all the way down.”
The engineers find it difficult to believe the government’s claim that scattered fires brought about such an orderly collapse.

“Symmetrical collapse requires simultaneous failure of all supporting columns,” notes Charles Pegelow, P.E., a Houston, Texas, licensed civil engineer who has performed design work on numerous tall buildings as well as oil rigs. “How could all 47 core columns fail at the same instant?” Pegelow wondered briefly, then concluded definitively, “Fires could not do that.”

“That does not look anything like a heat-induced, gravitational collapse mechanism,”

“The tilting block doesn’t look right,” Brookman asserts.

Baffling as the towers’ “collapses” were, even more perplexing to the 60 structural engineers was the destruction of World Trade Center Building 7. “Unprecedented,” says Rice. “Unexplainable,” vouches Huebner. After all, as all the engineers know, and as London chartered structural engineer Graham Inman declares bluntly on their behalf, “No plane hit this building.”

And so on.
An entire page of "it doesn't look right" and arguments from incredulity.

This was quite eye-opening for me. I mean, I knew they were a bunch of [insert appropriate epithet/s here], but to call this evidence with a straight face? That's quite something.

No surprise then, that so far they have only managed to persuade fewer than 600 simpletons (out of a population of some 350 million, and of course excluding fonebone) to sign the petition.

Please redo both graphs to reflect the actual date the petition
was created -- Monday Jan 23
Yes , the tally numbers are embarrassing and pathetic but the children
in the group have already exploited and exhausted their puerile humor
in the two weeks the petition ratchet was frozen at one signature.
An accurate depiction of the complete timeline the petition was open will be more honest.
The petition ratchet was opened Monday February 6th with a count of 85 at 12 PM EST.
Thank You

__________________Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured;but, like the sun, only for a time __Bovee

Sorry - I appreciate your efforts but to me your graph is yearly calendar with
six months of five day weeks.
Can anyone in the group create a graph of the petition with an accurate plot line
of signatures over the entire thirty day open period ?

Day 1 to day 14 are frozen at one signature. Day 15 at 12:00 PM the count was 85.
Today is day 19 and at 5:30 the signature count stands at 587.
12 days remaining to gather 99,413 more signatures. -Thanks in advance-

__________________Truth, like the sun, allows itself to be obscured;but, like the sun, only for a time __Bovee

It seems, as per usual, the Truth Movement is suffering from constipation.

__________________Do not weep. Do not wax indignant. Understand. - Baruch Spinoza
You are not entitled to your opinion. You are entitled to your informed opinion. No one is entitled to be ignorant. - Harlan Ellison

Can anyone in the group create a graph of the petition with an accurate plot line of signatures over the entire thirty day open period ?

Sure.

As pgimeno correctly pointed out earlier, such graphs must be scaled to the target of 100,000 signatures.
The signatures per day similarly need to be scaled to what is needed daily to get to 100,000 in 30 days. That would be 3334 per day.

This looks like this:

Essentially a flatline. The Truth Movement is dead. We knew that before. E.g. the ReThink911 campaign of 2013, does anybody remember? They promised that if their petition ever reached 1 million, they would send it to all heads of state of the countries that lost citizens on 9/11. Here's how that petition fared, to the tune of hundreds of $$$ that AE911 spent on it:

Here is a Facebook group - one of the largest that's 9/11-themed, called "1,000,000 people for 911 TRUTH". This is how it grew since two years ago:

I once tracked another petition at whitehouse.org - about those 28 pages. Look:

You see flatlines upon flatlines.
That's the 9/11 Truth Movement: Bereft of life.

As pgimeno correctly pointed out earlier, such graphs must be scaled to the target of 100,000 signatures.
The signatures per day similarly need to be scaled to what is needed daily to get to 100,000 in 30 days. That would be 3334 per day.

This looks like this:

Essentially a flatline. The Truth Movement is dead. We knew that before. E.g. the ReThink911 campaign of 2013, does anybody remember? They promised that if their petition ever reached 1 million, they would send it to all heads of state of the countries that lost citizens on 9/11. Here's how that petition fared, to the tune of hundreds of $$$ that AE911 spent on it:

Here is a Facebook group - one of the largest that's 9/11-themed, called "1,000,000 people for 911 TRUTH". This is how it grew since two years ago:

I once tracked another petition at whitehouse.org - about those 28 pages. Look:

You see flatlines upon flatlines.
That's the 9/11 Truth Movement: Bereft of life.

Sorry - I appreciate your efforts but to me your graph is yearly calendar with
six months of five day weeks.
Can anyone in the group create a graph of the petition with an accurate plot line
of signatures over the entire thirty day open period ?

Day 1 to day 14 are frozen at one signature. Day 15 at 12:00 PM the count was 85.
Today is day 19 and at 5:30 the signature count stands at 587.
12 days remaining to gather 99,413 more signatures. -Thanks in advance-

You now need 403 signatures per hour to make the February 22nd deadline.