27 Januari 2017

DND Evaluating Russian Offer of Diesel-Electric Submarines

27 Januari 2017

Improved Kilo class submarine (photo : Defencetalk)MANILA (PNA) -- Department of National Defense (DND) Secretary Delfin Lorenzana said the country is now evaluating Russia's offer to sell the Philippines some of its advanced diesel-electric submarines.The DND chief, in a press briefing Thursday, said they are now determining on whether these specialized ships are essential for the modernization needs of the Armed Forces of the Philippines and whether the country can afford to acquire and maintain such an expensive weapons platform.However, Lorenzana said Russia diesel-electrics submarines are considered to be one of the best in the world.Six variants of the Russian-made Kilo-class submarines are now being operated by Vietnam People's Navy.The Armed Forces of the Philippines is expected to acquire its own diesel-electric class submarines during the 2nd Horizon of the AFP Modernization Program which is expected to begin this 2018 and end on 2022.Kilo-class diesel-electric submarines are mainly intended for anti-shipping and anti-submarine operations in relatively shallow waters. (PNA)

Actually that is the idea, handle the pirates first then subs will come after. The most probable reason why DND is trying to identify which sub they would likely acquired is to syncronized the training of the crew for the particular model, PN wants them to be trained as early as possible. Submarine acquisition as I have said will not come after Horizon 2 or after year 2022. IMO the timetable for training is in order for the arrival of sub after 2022. For how can the PN operate the sub without sufficient training.

Anonymous. Every country has the right to operate the weapon platform of their own choice. Philippines is an archipelagic country, surrounded by water. We are not a stranger to the sea and our sailors are all over the world so there is no doubt, we can operate the sub. There is no harm in trying, it may be costly but that is our government's call.

why russian cant offer some war machine to taiwan while they offers military toys to phil recently. and everybody knows that phil is"stil" closest friend to us/west. like japan & s.korean, us military were there(phil)few years back. i read taiwan lookin for new replacement for their dinosaur subs but us/west reject sale it for taiwan.

in my previous opinion, i just want to show a picture about whats going on there, it looks a bit strange or funny relations between those nations. that all.

Japanese is probably helping Taiwanese behind the curtain. Taiwanese future destroyer look almost identical to Japanese Akizuki classes http://navyrecognition.com/index.php/news/defence-news/2017/january-2017-navy-naval-forces-defense-industry-technology-maritime-security-global-news/4839-video-roc-navy-taiwan-future-guided-missile-destroyer-revealed.html Probably the Submarine and amphibious assault ship is based on Soryu and Izumo class.

Bobby. The most probable reason why Russians are not selling their weapons to Taiwan is to protect their diplomatic relations with the mainland. PLA leaders will surely react given Taiwan's current relations with the mainland.

Aymokay, EDCA as a deal is made before Duterte. Personally, Duterte wants US troops out. But because EDCA was already signed, he has to let the 5 bases be built. Pretty sure he's only doing that just so that the US doesn't get pissed off. If he can choose freely and EDCA was not there, he would most probably stop the construction and kick the US soldiers out.

Anonymous. Before those bases started construction, the DND Sec made sure that the president is aware of it. The general sentiment of the Filipino with regards to trust rating shows that Filipinos trust the Americans with a +66 rating while China got -33. Duterte is a left leaning president, he admitted that himself and that explains his attitude towards US but he said he is not a communist. He is also aware of the people's sentiment as well as AFP's closeness to US military. Duterte wont probably finish his term, and the next president will surely restore the relation with US. So Duterte at present can only do the barking against US and he wont go farther because or else he will be going against the majority will of the people and the military.

Aymokay: If Big Bear wants to protect their relations with Panda. How about VC? Big Bear selling alot toys to VC, not only kilo’s subs, some cool stuff like jets, sams etc keep coming nowdays. Did Panda react? Yes. But big bear seems ignored cute Panda’s. So what do you think my friend?is it really true Big Bear afraid of Panda or not if the green is good..lol.

Bobby. The case of Vietnam is very different from Taiwan. Vietnam is an independent country from China while Taiwan is considered by China as a renegade province; from the mainland's point of view, they are still part of China. It would not sit well to PLA leaders to know that Russia is supplying weapons to Taiwan because it is almost tantamount to supporting a rebellion against the mainland. If you notice all forms of military assistance by other nations are being questioned and scrutinized by the mainland, this is to limit Taiwan's military capability.

Aymokay: yes its true. But like we all knew the arm dealer wont stop selling and make money also troubles. Like Big Bear did in crimea.

The news said, Uncle Sam under his new administration is in repairing relationship mode with Big bear. And Panda respons it by deploys icbm in heilongjiang which borders with Bear. They said its not for Big bear but for his Uncle...lol

This nukes nations can do whatever they like, and we all here like their toys

Forcing an island to stay in a country against their will is as good as annexing them

It seems that mostly indons and malaysians have a negative comment on philippine plan to purchase russian submarine. This shows that this two 3rd world and most corrupt country in asia doesnt know and knowledge to operate this underwater military hardware. If i were u people of indons and malaysia, u shut up your mouth. Filipinos have more talent than yours.

Yo mary ann ladildo. Indonesians and Malaysians are some of the few countries in ASEAN with experience operating subs and a working sub/sub fleet. Your country's navy isn't even comparable to ours as it is still so weak. The russian sub you are trying to buy is still inferior than the improved Changbogos Indonesia is buying. You must be stupid beyond belief to think pinoys have more talent and experience than us in subs.

Hahahahahahaha. Poor mary ann lazado. Being over patriotic. Currently Changbagos sub is the most advanced sub in SEA. Phil armed force is like dog shit compare to ours. Even Vietnamese is farrrrrrr better than any pinoy. I hope the police shot you because you always high and in you own fantasy world. As part of drug crackdown.

Very true. China is to be blamed, this is a form of sabotage to arrest the surging economy of SEA countries which has become a threat to their economy. SEA countries should be wise enough to discern this

Good. Philippines should buy submarines ages ago. I agree with other commenter that purchasing modern surface ship makes more sense but submarine is a great deterrence tool. Any hostile ship will be very careful and might restrict ship from entering certain area.

To:Aymokay: it is obvious that you are a slave by this neighboring countries you have. You dont even noticed that filipinos has been underestimated by this two uncivilized Asian country?perhaps this two country are the promotors by what was happening right now in the region specifically hijacking.

You dont even know what kind of people is in here. I agree of what you said but d what it takes to show what u are. Dont hide on Aymokay instead use your real name to show your patriotic deeds.review your school days and u even forget to sing Lupang Hinirang and the story of Andres Bonifacio. You are not deserving.

Mary Ann. Where did u learn that being tactful is being a slave? and where did u learn that being tactless or disrespectful is patriotism? Obviously your sense of value is grossly flawed. And what is wrong with being underestimated? The truth is, I wont mind them to underestimating us the rest of their lives because that will always be a minus against them.

Mary Ann. Where did u learn that being tactful is being a slave? and where did u learn that being tactless or disrespectful is patriotism? Obviously your sense of value is grossly flawed. And what is wrong with being underestimated? The truth is, I wont mind them to underestimating us the rest of their lives because that will always be a minus against them.

to aymokay: do not worry about what mary said. he/she is saying about respect but at the same time calling other people countries uncivilized and saying they have less talent than philippine. while some of the comment may sound rude but they do have a point. worldstar said that the pn can barely operate modern ship which is true until the new frigate arrive but for now the pn have no modern vessel. next is zaidi, he said that philippine will get more benefit if they use the money to buy more multipurpose support ship(mpss) like the tarlac instead of buying an expensive to buy and maintain submarine which is also true. mpss can give more benefit as it can help disaster relief and become a sea base for smaller ship to patrol the sulu sea. a submarine will give more deterrent but that's about it. a submarine is harder to operate than surface ship. the pn have not operate any modern ship so it will be hard for them to operate a modern submarine. well maybe they can do the same thing as singapore where they buy secondhand subs first than a few years after that order the type 218sg. the same goes for malaysia as well during the scorpene acquisition(corruption aside please). the bought an old agosta as well to familiarise themselves in subs operation. while there is a delay as the order is on 2003 and the sub arrived at 2010. one of the reason for the delay if im not mistaken is because the construction for the submarine base and maintainance facility at sabah is not finished yet. finally, they are no official order or bidding yet for the submarine program. they are just inspecting some of the possible subs that they may acquire and maybe to decide whether it's feasible or not. so mary, why are you butthurt. most of the comment about philippine operating sub have credible point. you did not give a proper argument but instead you called them uncivilized,corrupt and third world country. unlike aymokay who give a good argument and explanation, you just bitch around and saying Filipinos are the best in everything military so shut up stupid malaysian and indonesian commenters.

To finish this all..I would like to say that Indons and Malaysians are great.Two thumbs up! Expert in operating subs, no corruption, most experienced military in asia and talented. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

thank you. but i have to decline your praise as it is not true. we have corruption but not the most corrupt like you said. we are talented and experienced but not the best in military. we know how to operate subs and could be experts. there are ultra nationalist malaysian and indonesian in this blog just like ultra nationalist pinoy like you.

indonesians and malays, its a simple understanding and it all started with the begginning by studying the very concept in operating a new equipment and this is our Pilipino friends doing right now. Don't be judgemental and if both of your nation has failed to operate, maintain and upgrade those military equipment that your country had that is your problem. blame it to your government not to Pilippine. Every country has their own knowledge, expertise and strategy in operating a sophisticated equipment. Instead you must help your fellow asean neighbor since all of you have a great threat from mighthy China.

to this ascertain luqman, this is one of the most boastful person i known in this blog. He is pretending to be an intelligent one.

sorry for being boastful though i would like to know what are the thing i boast about. im also sorry for pretending to be intelligent since im not from a first world country like france so i must act accordingly and stupid as i dont know anything about military.

Indonesia had operated fighter jets since the 50s with deHavilland Vampires and our air force was the strongest in South East Asia/Oceania in the 60s with support from the Soviet Union.

We had strategic bombers in the form of Tu-16s and anti carrier missiles (AS-1). Our air force was so overwhelming in the 60s that the Dutch with their aircraft carrier (Karel Doorman) chose to back down and just give Papua to us rather than fighting us after the US told them about the Tu-16s and the AS-1s.

We also had supersonic jet fighters waaaay before the 70s, in the 60s to be exact with MiG-21 F3s.

Don't talk as if you know a lot about our Air Force history and as if we NEEDED the help of the Phillipines to operate fighter jets. GTFO with your bullshit pseudo history!

Lem 1. As a Filipino, i take their warnings positively. Even the DND Sec himself mentioned that they will evaluate if there is really a need for Philippines to buy subs; also according to him: we will not buy something that is not useful to us.

Think positive Mr. Think just like a russian or a western in decision making.good preparation is a better way to operate sub in the near future.bear in your mind that war nowadays is different from tjose of wwii. May i ptay that one day if war brokes, your house and family must not be a victim of a single bullet or nuclear that this aggressor should visit your hometown.push and push.dont be a negative one just like your indons and malaysian cohort.

You watch for a couple of months when russia and philippines sign an agreement this april so you aymokay, luqman and the rest of military expert here in defense studies will going to stop thinking imposible. Lem 1 is correct if this our neighboring country doesnt know the concept of sub operation they might see the philippines can. They failed to maintain just because they are unprepared and lack of interest.it all started and started in a begginning through proper preparation. Training and understanding which this indons and malaysia does not.

They might sign it, they might not sign it, who knows. Considering Trump is now US president, I guess the world has gone crazy enough that stupid illogical things can happen. Even if they sign it, everyone with half a brain knows that your limited money would be better spent on surface ships. Subs are too expensive to operate when your surface fleet isn't even on par with your ASEAN neighbors as it is still way too small and weak for a country your size.

You, Lem1, and the russian fanboys here are equally crazy for different things. You keep saying that the neighboring countries fail to operate suns because we don't have proper training and understanding. What a joke. Indonesia has been operating subs starting drom the 60s when we had 12 Whiskey class subs. Indonesia has way more training, experience, and understanding of submarine operations than Philippines. That is cold hard fact. Indonesia has operated subs ever since with 0 incidents. That can only mean one thing. Indonesia has a fully functional, highly trained, well maintained submarine fleet with proper understanding of it's usage. Once again your claim falls short because it's not a fact.

This anonymous is an expert in internet research..you are so brilliant to say of your unreliable source.you are obviously an indons gifted citizen.To aymokay: you must go back to your elementary years and try to put in your head with what your teacher tells you about our gallant heroes and sing again your lupang hinirang gently and in heart. Dont be a losser and stand up help your armrd forces and stop thinking negative. You had been brought by your parents to school to know, study, understand and analysis which your armed forces is already have in preparing for sub acquisition in the near future.stop thinking like those indons and malaysians which is already a submarine failure operator.ok.ok

what is the unreliable source? you just cant accept the fact that indonesian pilot was not trained by the filipinos like what lem1 said. what is your proof that malaysia and indonesian are fail subs operator. i agree on what you said about early preparation and even give you two countries that made early preparation by buying old sub to familiarise themselves in subs operation. being a nationalist and proud of your country is good and i agree with you about this as well. however, being an ultranationalist that cant accept others criticism and think too highly of yourself is wrong in many ways. you want to know what happen when a country is filled with ultra nationalist? look what happen to nazi germany.

Failed submarime operator??? Hahahahahahahahaha pinoy first ever LPD Tarlac just crash against cargo ship. Such skill and talented sailors should be a model to other pinoy sailor to crash more ship. This is a surface ship not a submarine ship. I think pinoy should not buy any submarine cause there can always crash and sink some ship and turn it to a submarine.

worldstar, i think you are going a bit too far there. accident happens but what's important is the things you do after the accident. either you learn from it and avoid it from happening again or just play ignorant.

Worldstar. Tarlac did not crash on the cargo ship. It was stationary and anchored meaning it is not moving while serving as a covert operations headquarters and as a blockade ship during the military assault against the abu sayyaf. The incident happenned at 7 pm, this is during the night. The Liberian registered cargo ship is the one at fault and that caused the collision. Check back your facts.

Should the navy inform to all ship that the shipping route should be closed off for military purpose. If the navy trying to blockade then should it inform to public first to warn them against using the route? No wonder pinoy fail to take down militant and communist for about half century. So unprofessional.

Worldstar. According to the news, the military said that BRP Tarlac is part of a covert operation against the abu sayyaf. If the military will spill the bean by announcing their operation then there is no need for BRP Tarlac to be there because members of abu sayyaf will simply avoid the sea route to escape the pursuing military, even a conventional non military person is aware of this strategy. I find your suggestion ridiculous; i dont know how unprofessionalism got into the picture either. There are wars fought for more than a hundred years but unprofessionalism has nothing to do with it. There are many factors why this rebellion is taking long, factors that probably even you wont understand but i can assure you its not about unprofessionalism. Our top brasses in AFP are graduates of military schools both within and outside the Philippines, so they have the skills and training. AFP may be lacking in modern equipments but certainly not professionalism.

Worldstar should need an eyeglass or lens to better understand and get what was exactly happen to cargo ships which collided in brp tarlac. You better shutp your mouth i guess if you could not give an exact information here so anyone would not going to doubt of what you are saying is all about.