Vegetarian vs Meat: The Debate

One of the most hotly debated topics in the nutrition world is the age old question: to eat meat, or not to eat meat? Isn’t a vegetarian diet healthier? Less saturated fat? Less heart disease? Less cancer?

I have been on both sides of the fence, and this is a topic about which I feel strongly.Check out my story. I was a vegetarian for almost 13 years and felt great for much of it, honestly, until I developed hormonal issues that were directly linked to my overconsumption of soy products. But what really began to shake my vegetarian confidence was my foray into veganism. It’s no secret that factory farming practices in this country are abhorrent at best, and while I worked as a journalist for an environmental magazine, I researched and wrote about the adverse effects our contaminated food supply has on our health. I lasted as a vegan for about 3 weeks and have never felt worse in my life. I could barely drag myself through the day and felt foggy and grumpy. Mine was a well curated vegan diet, mind you, as I had been studying health and nutrition for years and carefully combined whole grains, legumes, and soy products so I could be sure I had enough “complete” proteins.

About the time I enrolled in school and began my studies in holistic nutrition, I read Julia Ross’s book, The Diet Cure. This book completely changed the way I viewed nutrition and vegetarianism. Because, come on, I would be lying if I said I didn’t expect to lose weight going vegetarian or vegan because I wasn’t consuming those fattening animal products! I learned how wheat and gluten products created inflammation and how soy products cause estrogen dominance and thyroid issues, and THAT actually causes weight gain, not animal products. I learned fat was necessary for brain and hormonal health and that eating fat makes you thin. I began to eat meat again and have never looked back. But enough about me. Let’s talk vegetarianism.

Most of my vegetarian clients avoid meat or animals products foremost because they want to be healthy and lose weight. Many avoid meat due to ethical reasons. There is a common thread among my female vegetarian/vegan clients:

weight gain

no sex drive

hormonal issues

high blood sugar/hypoglycemia/high insulin

depression, anxiety.

A few struggle with intestinal yeast or uterine fibroids. I explain the following to each one of them:

We are genetically identical to our ancestors, who thrived on a diet of vegetables, occasional fruits, nuts/seeds, and animals. They practiced a “rotation diet” by default, meaning that they weren’t eating the same things every day (or the same animals), and they certainly didn’t consume soy or fake foods like Morningstar Farms chik’n nuggets. Furthermore, they weren’t consuming a whole lot of grains, if any at all, because most grains are difficult to digest unless they’ve been processed/soaked/sprouted or fermented to some extent. Yes, your breads contain leavening agents and your flour has to be processed and ground before use. Grains are intrinsically difficult to digest: they are coated in a sticky protein called lectin, which is not easily broken down by our digestive enzymes. The reason is because the grain needs to propagate, and they do so by being consumed by grazing animals and pooped out (not broken down) so they can be spread and then take root and grow elsewhere.

Anyhow, my point is that our ancestors were indeed consuming a plant based diet. But they did have meat, and sometimes it was the focus of the meal (after a kill); sometimes it was more of a condiment. The fact is, we thrived on a diet that included animal protein. Our ancestors didn’t suffer from the modern ills we experience today: high blood pressure, obesity, high blood sugar, cardiovascular disease, cancer. They also exercised, slept 10-12 hours, and ate an organic diet by default with no processed foods.

I have studied the research and witnessed the effects of a vegetarian diet both personally and among my vegetarian clients, and I have a few thoughts here. First off, sure, a vegetarian diet works for some folks. We are all physiologically different and no one diet is right for everyone. I’ve had vegetarian clients come to me because they went veg to lose weight, only to gain weight, perhaps because their bodies have a higher need for protein and they may not fare well on a grain-based diet.

I’ve had veg clients come see me because they began to suffer debilitating stomach issues (soy is very difficult to digest, as are grains), hormonal issues (soy is very estrogenic and also downregulates thyroid function, causing weight gain, infertility, and a host of other estrogen-dominant type issues), depression (your body synthesizes feel-good neurotransmitters from amino acids in protein), or lack of sex drive. In these cases, a vegetarian diet is doing more harm than good. If you are a happy vegetarian and you feel good, fine.

If you have one of more of the following issues troubling you, time to reconsider your diet.

Let’s clear up a few myths. First off, I love the one where people say they lose tons of weight and feel great when they go vegan. Great! Sure, this could work for a while. It’s basically like a cleanse: about 70 percent vegetables/carbs, and about 10 percent protein & fat. And anytime you transition from a processed food diet to a plant-based diet, of course your health will improve. Talk to me in a few months. Still feel great? Fine. Starting to feel lethargic, or is your weight plateauing? You’ve probably transitioned off the initial detox high and may be subject to hormone imbalance or fatty acid and B vitamin deficiency.

Then there’s the “meat is unhealthy” claim. Sure, meat is unhealthy when you buy it from McDonald’s or if you buy mass produced factory farmed toxin-filled meat. But fake soy products certainly aren’t health foods. That stuff is all chemicals that the body can’t properly process. Humanely raised hormone/antibiotic-free meat from reputable sources contains B vitamins, zinc, iron, good fats, and protein necessary for immune & cardiovascular function, tissue building & repair. We all require different amounts. But in times of stress, the body’s need for protein & good fats is greater. Don’t believe the hype about red meat causing early death. That study is seriously flawed, and my guess is the participants weren’t eating organic meat.

I do believe that a meatless, grain-based diet is not optimal. Grains are difficult to digest, create inflammation in the digestive tract and inhibit absorption of other nutrients. Add soy to the mix and you’ve got real problems. Look, I’m not anti-vegetarian. The point of this article is to stress that no one diet works for everyone. It’s of course possible to be an unhealthy meat eater, sure. We need a plant-based diet. Plants provide antioxidants, minerals, and nutrients that oxygenate the body. It’s possible to be an unhealthy vegetarian, especially if you’re eating soy and fake meat products.

It’s about what is the right diet for YOU? The body’s needs change over time, and our diet must change to accommodate these needs. And my other point is this: if you have health issues, your diet should be the first thing you focus on. If you’re in the “meat causes cancer and saturated fat is bad” camp, I can direct you to the litany of studies you should read to educate yourself.More on fat/cholesterol:
https://www.maryvancenc.com/2011/07/eat-fat-lose-weight/
https://www.maryvancenc.com/2011/07/eating-fat-doesnt-give-you-high-cholesterol/Recommended reading:
A look at the China Study vs Meat debate:

Fascinating as always, Mary,
and although I mostly follow your Paleo diet (and totally agree with the premises) I have a question about Soy. You mentioned “chemical soy products,” and I’m wondering if there are healthy soy products out there as well? It’s not financially feasible to eat as much meat as I’d need to, to get my proper protein fix, so I’ve supplemented with protein shakes and so forth for years. Always attributed the stomach issues to Celiac, but you’ve got me wondering…? Maybe “Smart Dogs” aren’t so smart? any way to tell the good from the bad soy?
thanks much,
ian

admin
on 9 August, 2011 at 6:51 pm

Hi Ian,
i strongly caution against using ANY soy products, especially soy protein smoothie powders, tofu, and any and all fake meat products, which are all processed, every single one. They create major digestive & hormonal issues in both men & women. Using fermented soy occasionally (tempeh or miso) is ok (the fermentation makes it somewhat easier to digest by breaking down the anti-nutrients), but avoid soy protein, soy protein isolate, hydrolyzed soy protein, textured vegetarian proteins, etc. I know organic meats can get pricey, but the way I look at it–it saves a lot of money on medical bills on down the road 🙂 If you want to use protein smoothies, go for hemp/rice/pea protein, or if you can do dairy, try unprocessed/unheated whey protein like Designs for Health PaleoMeal.

jaipal
on 8 September, 2011 at 3:38 pm

Hey the soy might have been gmo other than the highly processed ones giving u the trouble…..and maybe if we stick to organically grown veges only -the vegetarian diet could give us the energy and nutrient required dear…..maybe the genetically modified foods and highly processed foods need to be avoid if u want to be health and feel alive,whether ur vegan,vegetarian or non-veg.

admin
on 8 September, 2011 at 3:46 pm

Yes, agreed that GMO foods need to be avoided at all cost, and soy is one of the most common crops produced as a GMO. But in the case of soy, GMO or completely organic, it still contains a high dose of plant-based estrogens (phyto-estrogens & isoflavones) that cause hormonal issues. Also, soy is very difficult to digest.

Ruthie
on 3 December, 2011 at 7:44 pm

So stop eating soy and start eating things that are good for your body? There’s no need to go back to eating animal corpses. You probably weren’t getting enough greens. Eat a vegetarian diet with plenty of greens like kale, spinach, and watercress and all the different types of vegetables, fruits, nuts and seeds. Make sure you get your essential fatty acids. You probably also needed more flax seed, avocados, and nuts. I don’t even remember the last time I got a common cold or any type of sickness and my energy levels are amazing. Vegetables should be on the bottom of the food pyramid! Specifically cruciferous vegetables. If you had done a vegan/vegetarian diet right and made sure you got all your nutrients and such then there’s no way you would have been feeling that way.

admin
on 5 December, 2011 at 12:46 pm

Yes, agreed that veggies should be on the bottom of the food pyramid, but not everyone thrives on a vegetarian diet. Some people crash with too many grains and the high carb load that comes with being a vegetarian. Everyone has different physiological needs, and while some may do ok with a plant-based diet, others won’t.

Darch Oborne
on 28 August, 2012 at 10:59 pm

I’m a 68 yr old Marathon runner; with prostate cancer just starting; trying to eat a veg diet with wild salmon and organic chicken also. On Active Surveillance PCa program. I use whey protein in my bkfst shake (with alot of seasonal fruits and vegs) and wonder if I am getting enough protein in my diet; I run and bike every day for 2 hrs. Comments?

Everyone has different needs when it comes to the proper amounts of protein, fat, and carb, but if you’re a marathon runner, you’ll have an increased need for protein for energy/tissue repair, and you’ll need good fats (coconut oil, butter, cod liver oil) for fatty acids and to keep joints supple. Make sure to have at least 30 grams of protein at every meal in the form of cage free eggs, unprocessed whey protein powder (the only one I like is from Designs for Health; others have been heated/processed), grass fed beef/bison (excellent for omega 3 fats), organic lamb, poultry, and fatty fish like wild salmon. Eat varied proteins– just sticking to chicken and fish won’t give you the spectrum of proteins and fatty acids you need. Good to hear you’re getting lots of veggies– the antioxidants are crucial for cancer treatment. Just don’t overdo it on the fruit!

Debbie
on 1 March, 2014 at 5:25 pm

Very well written article. You have reassured my decision to maintain my goal of a whole, organic hunter/gatherer diet. I am beginning a Holistic Nutrition/Urban Farming class this April and was once a vegetarian as well. From all the studies I have done thus far, I am in favor of a more “living off the land” way of eating. Thank you for sharing your in put and personal experience on the topic and the links provided.

Ben
on 15 November, 2015 at 10:15 pm

Thank you for the interesting article. Just to let you know I am not a vegetarian (or a vegan), and do not feel as strongly as many here about whether or not it is the ‘correct’ diet. As you say, there is not necessarily one right way to eat.
After reading you article I coun’t help but think of the obvious: that if you were developing problems based on your overconsumption of soy, then soy was to blame. You said you ate a balanced diet, but the take-home message for me seems to be to limit the soy and the grains. Okay, so meat itself isn’t necessarily the culprit when it comes to cancer and other negative health benefits, but the fact is that most people can’t afford organic or free range meat, and for convenience purposes even if they can most people don’t when they eat out.
Also, regarding your switch to a vegan diet; don’t you think three weeks is too short a time for your assumptions to be valid? You say that clients have initially felt great when they switched to a vegetarian diet, only for those feelings to gradually wear off. What if that were the reverse case with your vegan diet? Just as you clients making assumptions about a new vegetarian diet after three weeks is premature, so too is your conclusion about veganism.
And one last thing: can you share your source for the claim that our ancestors slept 10-12 hours a night? I recently read an interesting article about a study of modern hunter gatherer communities (in Namibia, Bolivia, and Tanzania). The tribes averaged 6.5 hours of uninterrupted sleep every night. One study does not prove a theory. But I haven’t seen reliable data on that 10-12 hour number you quoted. Here is a link: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/hunter-gatherers-need-less-seven-hours-sleep-180956953/?no-ist

You make some interesting claims, but it’s such not a linear process, and feeling crappy for weeks hoping for an improvement is not nearly the same as the reverse. In terms of sleep, we are discovering new info all the time about our ancestors’ sleep habits. I typically now recommend 8-10 hours. Keep in mind you are commenting on a post that is over 4 years old, and I often don’t update old posts. Our knowledge about human health is ever evolving and changing.