Scroll down to Pen &amp; Teller. All I can say is WOW, who is stupid enough to support it? /ccboard/images/graemlins/wink.gif

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/06/14.html

pooltchr

12-11-2005, 06:44 AM

Pen &amp; Teller are entertainers. I don't know that this qualifies them as experts on government affairs. I feel the same way about Barbara Strisand, Tom Cruise, and others from the entertainment industry. I let them entertain me, but I do not put much stock in their political opinions.
Steve

TomBrooklyn

12-11-2005, 09:26 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> Pen &amp; Teller are entertainers. I don't know that this qualifies them as experts on government affairs. <hr /></blockquote>
It doesn't. But does one have to be an expert to understand and convey some basic ideas?

Drop1

12-11-2005, 01:46 PM

This is a Democracy,and I put my trust in the People,and not the expert liars that mislead us,nor the left wing psycho-babel of the liberals,and not in the right wing Jesus freaks,but in the People,and the People say we have been screwed by our leaders,and its time to leave Iraq. If the political opinions of the People are to be ignored,where is our Free Democracy that our people in Iraq are dying for?

pooltchr

12-11-2005, 03:41 PM

The opinions of the people are not to be ignored. That's why we have the option every 2,4,or 6 years to change the make-up of our government. If you like 'em, re-elect 'em...if you don't...vote 'em out! The people who are making the decisions in Washington were sent there by a majority of the voting public. (Don't hand me any BS about stolen elections...votes were counted and counted and counted...whether you agree with the outcome or not...the outcome is what we got) If you don't agree with the group presently in Washington, do something about it besides just talking on a forum. Find candidates you think will do a better job, then go to work to try and get them elected. If enough people agree with you, it will happen.

Now, which people say we've been screwed and it's time to leave Iraq? You say "the people" does that include the ones who don't agree with you? I happen to believe that pulling out of Iraq at this time would be a huge mistake. I wish we weren't there and maybe it was a mistake, maybe it wasn't. But I don't think we should make a second mistake and leave before the job is finished.
Steve

Fasteddy7

12-11-2005, 05:19 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> This is a Democracy,and I put my trust in the People,and not the expert liars that mislead us,nor the left wing psycho-babel of the liberals,and not in the right wing Jesus freaks,but in the People,and the People say we have been screwed by our leaders,and its time to leave Iraq. If the political opinions of the People are to be ignored,where is our Free Democracy that our people in Iraq are dying for? <hr /></blockquote>

People, People ,People. When are you going to realize we dont live in a democracy, but a REPUBLIC. Learn something that wasnt taught in public schools.

Drop1

12-11-2005, 05:33 PM

I don't know of a single poll of the people that would not take us out of Iraq. You disagree with me,and thats your right,and I don't think what you say is B.S.,but your opinion,and the conclusions you have derived from your thoughts,and experience. I never realized until now,that a forum is a place where everyone who agrees with one another get together and agree with one another some more. I was under the mistaken idea that a forum was a vehicle to express in a civil way different conclusions on the same subject.

Drop1

12-11-2005, 05:55 PM

Maybe at one time we had a Republic,and at one time we had a Democracy. I was really thinking of starting the post using the words Democratic Republic,but I figured people would understand the issue. What we have now are red states,and blue states controlled news,and Americans hating Americans because they have different opinions. This is no longer one Nation under God,but a split Nation of frightened people. I doubt the Constitution would survive if voted on today.

nAz

12-11-2005, 08:59 PM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> The opinions of the people are not to be ignored. That's why we have the option every 2,4,or 6 years to change the make-up of our government. If you like 'em, re-elect 'em...if you don't...vote 'em out! The people who are making the decisions in Washington were sent there by a majority of the voting public. (Don't hand me any BS about stolen elections...votes were counted and counted and counted...whether you agree with the outcome or not...the outcome is what we got) If you don't agree with the group presently in Washington, do something about it besides just talking on a forum. Find candidates you think will do a better job, then go to work to try and get them elected. If enough people agree with you, it will happen.
Steve <hr /></blockquote>

I agree a 100% "we reap what we sow"

Drop1

12-11-2005, 10:02 PM

Do you think Bush would pass a vote of confidence if an electon was held today. I think he would get thrown out. And the Democrats are no better:a bunch of gutless lambs.

pooltchr

12-12-2005, 06:41 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Do you think Bush would pass a vote of confidence if an electon was held today. I think he would get thrown out. And the Democrats are no better:a bunch of gutless lambs. <hr /></blockquote>

Given the present state of affairs, probably not. But that isn't how our country is run. We have guidelines, and one is that we don't decide in the middle of a presidential term to hold another election. Maybe by the time the next election rolls around, enough people will figure out that the Republicans and Democrats are all pretty much the same, and start seriously looking at another alternative. I would love to see a serious revolution at the polls next election.

IMHO, we should fire every damn one of the idiots in Washington and bring in a whole new crew...maybe that would cut down on the deal making, CYA mentality, and give us a government that actually responds in the best interest of the country and the people, and not in the best interest of the party.
Steve

Deeman3

12-12-2005, 06:50 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Drop1:</font><hr> Maybe at one time we had a Republic,and at one time we had a Democracy. <font color="blue"> NO, we have always had a republic, never was or intended to be a democracy. </font color> I was really thinking of starting the post using the words Democratic Republic,but I figured people would understand the issue. What we have now are red states,and blue states controlled news,and Americans hating Americans because they have different opinions. This is no longer one Nation under God,but a split Nation of frightened people. <font color="blue">Most of us are not frightened. </font color> I doubt the Constitution would survive if voted on today. <font color="blue">You are probably right about this. </font color> <hr /></blockquote>

Gayle in MD

12-12-2005, 07:45 AM

This tactic of yours, and a few others, of assumming that people who speak out against this corrupt administration don't work for their candidates, or involve themselves in their communities, and participate in other ways in government is really presumptuous. "Do something about it besides just talking on a forum."

How, may I ask, do you know what the poster may be doing for his country? Do you ride around in his underware?

Your opinion is a right, but it may serve you to realize that you are in the minority, that most in this country do not trust George Bush, and that most of us have seen the truth about his path to war, and the state of Iraq, and think we should get out. Why do you have to be condescending to people who don't think the way that you do?

Gayle in Md.

Rich R.

12-12-2005, 07:49 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> IMHO, we should fire every damn one of the idiots in Washington and bring in a whole new crew...maybe that would cut down on the deal making, CYA mentality, and give us a government that actually responds in the best interest of the country and the people, and not in the best interest of the party. <hr /></blockquote>
Steve, this is one of the few things, in one of these political discussions, where I can really agree with you.
I'm a firm believer that, under our current system, by the time a politician, of any party, gets elected to a national office, he/she has already sold their soul to the special interest groups.

Gayle in MD

12-12-2005, 07:49 AM

And when are they going to realize that we are not in the Empire building business?

Gayle in Md....

Gayle in MD

12-12-2005, 07:54 AM

Only the Neocons....

Gayle in Md.....it's just another way in which Bush has degraded the principles that our country war founded upon.

Gayle in Md. HILE BUSH!

Deeman3

12-12-2005, 07:57 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Rich R.:</font><hr> <blockquote><font class="small">Quote pooltchr:</font><hr> IMHO, we should fire every damn one of the idiots in Washington and bring in a whole new crew...maybe that would cut down on the deal making, CYA mentality, and give us a government that actually responds in the best interest of the country and the people, and not in the best interest of the party. <hr /></blockquote>
Steve, this is one of the few things, in one of these political discussions, where I can really agree with you.
I'm a firm believer that, under our current system, by the time a politician, of any party, gets elected to a national office, he/she has already sold their soul to the special interest groups. <hr /></blockquote>

<font color="blue">Both of you are right, but what can we do? This is a two party corrupt system with, like I have said before, not much difference between the two and less all the time. They are both better than the more left wing factions but still the only two parties that will ever get elected. You can choose a right that serves business climate and a left that serves redistribution of the wealth but both only a mouse hair from each other.

Candidates with little integrity or none at all. One side that will pander for all votes and the other who doesn't care much what anyone thinks. Not much choice. </font color>

Deeman

Chopstick

12-12-2005, 09:55 AM

<blockquote><font class="small">Quote Deeman3:</font><hr>

<font color="blue">Both of you are right, but what can we do? </font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

The problem is not with the two party system. More parties would just expand the problem. The problem is the existance of the professional politician. What are there true job qualifications? They know how to get elected. That's it. They don't know how to get any work done when they get there and for the most part they don't care. All they're working on is getting elected again.

There have been congressmen that have an elementary school education. They don't even read the laws they pass. I would think, looking at what you're doing would be in their job description. What if I told you that you could apply for a $250,000 a year job, with no prior experience, no qualifications, no special training, and not even as much as a single college course about the job you will be expected to do. What do you think you're chances of getting that job will be? Well, that's what we stick in the President's office every time.

Replace the professional politician with trained and qualified professionals and you will see a system that works. A candidate should be able to pass a basic job interview. Have you ever done this before? Got any training that should be considered? Insist that "None of the above" be added to the ballot.

<font color="blue">Both of you are right, but what can we do? </font color>

Deeman <hr /></blockquote>

The problem is not with the two party system. More parties would just expand the problem. The problem is the existance of the professional politician. What are there true job qualifications? They know how to get elected. That's it. They don't know how to get any work done when they get there and for the most part they don't care. All they're working on is getting elected again.

There have been congressmen that have an elementary school education. They don't even read the laws they pass. I would think, looking at what you're doing would be in their job description. What if I told you that you could apply for a $250,000 a year job, with no prior experience, no qualifications, no special training, and not even as much as a single college course about the job you will be expected to do. What do you think you're chances of getting that job will be? Well, that's what we stick in the President's office every time.

Replace the professional politician with trained and qualified professionals and you will see a system that works. A candidate should be able to pass a basic job interview. Have you ever done this before? Got any training that should be considered? Insist that "None of the above" be added to the ballot. <hr /></blockquote>

Didnt the first members of senate and congress come from ordinary working individual that received no pay or benefits. This is the only way that the system will work. Have these congressmen and women get by on the health care that most americans have and have them pay the money our seniors are paying for medication. I gaurantee once they have to pay like the rest of us out of their pocket laws would change.

Gayle in MD

12-14-2005, 02:07 PM

Not to mention...they have given themselves a raise seven times since the minimum wage has been increased....

What we need to change is through campaign reform. We should do away with all contributions, and have the country pay for elections and campaigns. Also, news people should have to wear buttons stating which party they support, most of us can tell, but some people don't know the difference. Fat chance of any of this happening.....

Gayle in Md. I think Penn &amp; Teller do a pretty good job of exposing myths....