Any questions, ask. I check the HB thread daily, and this one every few days.

The more I use this roaster, the more I think that controlling temp by manually adjusting a damper which becomes increasingly sensitive as temperature goes up isn't for everyone; but the more comfortable I am that it suits me well.

Regarding roaster speed -- the Amazon will never be fast; even 500g doses are into the 15min range. And as a function of its lack of speed, even "City+," roasts show comparatively more "roaster artifacts" of chocolate, nuts and sweetness than a faster roaster would at the same color.

If you're roasting mostly for acidy fruit and terroir, you're probably better off with a fluid bed anyway. If you're looking for a balance tipped more to sweetness, the Amazon is impressive.

Not going to say a fluid bed couldn't bring more acidity out then my Diedrich but I can achieve more acidity from the Diedrich then I can handle. I can get to 2nd crack with 500g in under 10 min running full tilt, I can get there with no roast defects in 12min. I prefer a city+ with 2min from start of first crack for all non espresso brews and 2.5min-3.5min for espresso to tone down acidity and add sweetness.

I hope when my kids get a little older to have some time to build a fluid bed like oldgearhead's fluid bed so I can make a clear sense of the differences the same hand can do on a drum roaster and a fluid bed.

Yeah. Sorry about that. Should have been more clear about context. Guess I should have mentioned that the Amazon isn't as fast as a $7,000 gas-fired drum roaster; and that a $7,000 gas-fired, drum roaster can cook beans about as fast and as acidy as a fluid bed. So, probably can the similarly expensive San Franciscan and US sample roasters; also $3,000 gas roasters like the TJ-067 Gas, Mini 500, etc. Hell, maybe even the $1500 Huky 500 given a sufficient heat source. Gas drums do things most electric drums cannot.

On the other hand, the Amazon roasts profiles similar to other electric drum roasters like the HotTop, the Quest, the higher powered TJ-067 Electric and even the doughty Diedrich HR-1.

Yeah. Sorry about that. Should have been more clear about context. Guess I should have mentioned that the Amazon isn't as fast as a $7,000 gas-fired drum roaster; and that said $7,000 gas-fired, drum roaster can cook beans about as fast and as acidy as a fluid bed. So, probably can the similarly expensive San Franciscan and US sample roasters; also $3,000 gas roasters like the TJ-067 Gas, Mini 500, etc. Hell, maybe even the $1500 Huky 500 given a sufficient heat source. Gas drums do things most electric drums cannot.

On the other hand, the Amazon roasts profiles similar to other electric drum roasters like the HotTop, the Quest, the higher powered TJ-067 Electric and even the doughty Diedrich HR-1.

Very clear, I could get to first crack in a HT B in under 8 min with a 225g load, so can a Quest. Did I make myself clear. Control is important to great roasts, batch size can be had with a drum in a BBQ gas grill for a grand less then this machine and that with buyin a half decent grill and drum.

I have always been up front that I was insane to have spent what I spent on roasting coffee. I can not get behind a machine that costs close to three grand and has roast times that are border line baked for a pound of coffee by your own reviews. I spent what I spent for ultimate control of my roasts but openly admit a quest or a HotTop is capable of producing the same quality of roasts if the operator knows how to make the machine do its job.

I do want this machine to be something that people like me can buy. I am not gunning to be a great roast master, I am just a home roaster with a big family and many friends that love my roasts more then the crap they buy. It doesn't hurt that I don't ever charge them either.

We are not on opposite sides of the fence. We are just two roasters with different machines. Mine is not better then yours, ok sorry I can't say that, it is, but I paid for it to be, but that does not mean I believe your roaster is incapable of great roasts. There are not enough of us crazy folk that have 1-2lb roasters to,what ever it is when you get crabby with each other on the net, lets stick together instead is my thought.

I have no secretes about my roasting. I just don't have many people that want to listen.

If you were to roast full 1000g charges in the Amazon, I suppose baking might be difficult to avoid. I wouldn't know, because so far I've been too intimidated by the prospect of bad roasts to really explore the limits of the machine's performance.

So far, I've dosed between 500g and 750g, and have yet to get roasts which are too dull. On the other hand, I've run the roaster as hot it can go at 660g and the results were bright enough for plenty of florals and fruits, but were nowhere close to too bright.

There are some limitations to how small you can charge most roasters without really screwing up the roast, so there's probably also limits to how bright you can take a roast with the Amazon by lowering the charge; and those limits are probably not close to the brightness you could get with... say... a Sonofresco running max heat and a medium dose. Is that a big deal or even a limitation? Not to me. I don't like coffee that bright, nor know many people who do.

On the other hand (so many other hands!), I roasted with a HotTop for a couple of years and am satisfied that I have a very good idea of what it can do. While I haven't really pressed the Amazon, I don't think there's a helluva lot of difference between how bright you could take a roast with either the HT or Amazon and still get reasonably good overall results. Also, I have the benefit of empiricism when it comes to the comparison. I'm drinking coffee from both machines, as opposed to speculating on what Amazon roasts must taste like.

At the charge sizes I'm playing with, I'm getting very much the roast profiles I want, which are neither extremely bright nor extremely "roasterish," but a balance of fruits, florals, chocolate, nuts and sweetness. They are not "borderline baked." In fact, the results are better than I've so far reported in HB, because -- for whatever reasons -- Amazon roasts seem to need an extra couple of days to settle down as compared to the HT roasts and I don't want to hint at bottom line conclusions on HB.

Even though the Amazon has some limitations in how fast it can put heat into the system, it can shed it like nobody's business. The damper which the Amazon uses as its only method of heat control makes it respond very quickly, but it's also twitchy, and not easy to control precisely; and even though a BT thermocouple will probably improve my timing, it's not going to make the damper rod settings any more exact or repeatable.

But the BT thermocouple is in the not-too-distant future... so, we'll see.

Let me be clear:I don't have "a side;" or if I do it's the same side as yours... Just trying to be reasonably honest and complete is all.

I'm not claiming the Amazon is the greatest roaster of all time, a wonderful value, trying validate my purchase by convincing anyone else to buy the Amazon, and am so far unprepared to recommend the roaster to anyone. What I can say for sure is (a) if you want to profile with any degree of sophistication "by-the-numbers," the Amazon is definitely not for you; (b) build quality seems adequate but is less than stellar; and (c) you can squeeze damn good roasts out of it if you pay very close attention and are willing to do some fine fiddling around.

It would be great if the Amazon were the answer to the 1kg-for-under-three-grand question. But if it is at all, it's certainly not the universal answer. Hell, if anyone's the right person for the Amazon it's me, I already own it, and still haven't decided if I'm going to keep it. My kids and friends (schnorrers just like yours) are telling me I should be roasting commercially (earn while you burn); and closer to home, I'm afraid to show my wife and enabler pictures of the San Franciscan.

Something that has helped me with first roast is a long pre heat. If anything on my 130lb roaster has not fully preheated it is robbing heat from the roast.

Air flow. I know my roaster will be different here and I have questions about how yours operates, let me tell you how mine works, I only have three settings for air flow,1- 80% through cooling tray 20% through drum, 50/50, and 20% through tray and 80% through drum. Every IR Diedrich is done this way from 1kg to 12kg and the bigger CR roasters are all 100% gradual air flow. Because I always have a 20% flow of air through the drum I get that convection at all times, also I never get a smoke build up later in a roast, not sure if this is helpful but you mentioned at HB some off tastes earlier that might have been from not exhausting the smoke later in the roast.

I know many put little faith in pre weight/post weight loss vs degree of roast, not really sure it is best to use for judging degree of roast but I have found it is useful in determine the drying phase and what fan speed I should use. This becomes apparent when buying 60-120lbs of the same bean. I am finding I can alter the flavor of a roast by changing the air flow during drying phase and alter the weight for the same degree of roast. A simple way to test some airflow variations is with a bean you like at the first few snaps of second crack since that is a fairly constant variable.

Lately I started doing a lot more roasting for drip, I mainly drink espresso and I am very comfortable with my profiles, but drip profiles I am finding I don't lower the heat much at the end and do much of my control with the exhaust fan. To be honest I am finding a very generic profile to work across the board of many beans for drip. I use drop in temp more to regulate how long I am in drying phase much more then control over heat, I have been liking my drips to take 5 min before they start drying, for me this starts at 280f when the beans begin to pale and I end it somewhere around 345f, the beans are going tan to brown. A Bean Mass probe is very valuable, it is more valuable in helping determine critical times in a roast, once you know them the BMP is only a tool. Ultimately a roast tells you exactly where it is at all critical times so technology is not needed, but it is useful in teaching and for being there when all your senses are not.

So tell me about your air flow and baffles. I takes it you have an exhaust sucking air out you drum. How does that work? How many settings? Do you have an intake damper?

These last 2 posts are awesome, and of great character.Not to mention just damn interesting and informational, even for us Behmor guys.I "inject" air at approximately the same time, using a bellows. Obviously just a short shot.It seems to work best for my drip roasts at the very end of 1st crack, when I using the P1 (hottest) profile.I envy you both, and your skill levels, especially for "home roasting" guys.

BLD, your HB thread is great. Thanks for posting the link.Highly recommended for anyone interested in a deeper, more involved look at BLD's roaster.

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