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There are a lot of times where the protection is based in part on the home itself not reaching freezing. However, with all of these repos right now the Banks are running around trying to winterize the homes to prevent damages. You also have to remember anytime you use stuff like heat-trace tape it can fail.

Mark

Agreed on the heat tape. That is why I prefer not to see any plumbing installed in a way where it can freeze, and yes it does depend on the home itself. Just before the cold weather hit out here I sent fliers to all the Realtors in the area explaining to them its best to winterize their vacant homes. It points out if there is a power fails, or the furnace fails for some reason it can be catastrophic if a pipe freezes and splits.

I just winterized a few homes this week. Last year I did repair a home that had multiple burst pipes in a vacant home. One of the Realtors prospective customers switched the thermostat from heat to cool.

A simple and safe home made bait is a 50:50 mixture of dry cement powder and cornflour placed in a shallow dish or bait station in the path used by the rodents. It is particularly good for use indoors, as the rat or mouse will feed then seek water outside. Water causes the cement powder to react, quickly killing the rodent outdoors where it can be disposed of easily.

Is that what you use in your home?

I really have no expertise in this matter so I bow to you...

My knowledge of the thirst associated from blood loss comes from EMS training not any practical training in rodent control in my home...

Baits are available in a number of formats including meal, grains, pellets and blocks. Baits should be used in low traffic, hard-to-reach areas such as basements, garages and attics. Baits are an ideal way to avoid contact with rodents, because once they've eaten the bait, they leave the area to die, generally going outside to seek water. Baits are safe and highly effective if used according to directions.

Most common rat and mouse poisons fall into the anticoagulant category. These products, long-acting warfarins, reduce the clotting of blood, and result in death from internal bleeding or anemia, usually within 4-10 days. http://www.d-conproducts.com/faq.html

Comment

I can't believe this thread is almost up to 200 posts and I'm the only one who considers it "post of the week" worthy. If one of the avowed purposes of this forum is to stimulate discussion on plumbing issues, how can this not be a sterling example of that goal?

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Excuse me if I have problems with you folks plumbing south of the Mason Dixon. You get a day or so of 20 degrees and think the end of the world is coming. We get a couple of days of 20 degrees and take the winter coats off. Pex is freeze resistant but not freeze proof and I can show you lots of pictures of frozen and split pex. Besides that, we are now running into houses that were totally piped in Pex and for many reasons have totally frozen up. Instead of being able to put the thawing machine on, fix a couple splits and be done, now we have to put salamander heaters in the house for several hours and even days to thaw the piping out and then fix the leaks. care to guess which one costs the home owner less? Naturally, since a lot of folks think or have heard that PEX won't freeze, they tend to run it in outside walls, behind cabinets, through unheated crawlspaces, in attics and then wonder why it froze up on them. Want some real fun? Try thawing out a frozen radiant slab sometime.

Oh yea, rat poison. Plaster of Paris is commonly used in rat poison also. It reacts with the moisture in the rats stomach and hardens into an undigestible ball.

sigpic

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Who said pex piping won't freeze? Of course it will freeze in the right conditions. I've never heard of that. Water piping is water piping and you don't run it in outside walls around here just like you don't with copper. If the heat gets turned off when it's 30 below then ALL pipes will freeze. Anyone telling customers pex won't freeze is a dumb azzz.

Who said pex piping won't freeze? Of course it will freeze in the right conditions. I've never heard of that. Water piping is water piping and you don't run it in outside walls around here just like you don't with copper. If the heat gets turned off when it's 30 below then ALL pipes will freeze. Anyone telling customers pex won't freeze is a dumb azzz.

I believe the terms used were "freeze-resistant" not proof.

Mark

"Somewhere a Village is Missing Twelve Idiots!" - Casey Anthony

I never lost a cent on the jobs I didn't get!

Comment

Excuse me if I have problems with you folks plumbing south of the Mason Dixon. You get a day or so of 20 degrees and think the end of the world is coming. We get a couple of days of 20 degrees and take the winter coats off. Pex is freeze resistant but not freeze proof and I can show you lots of pictures of frozen and split pex. Besides that, we are now running into houses that were totally piped in Pex and for many reasons have totally frozen up. Instead of being able to put the thawing machine on, fix a couple splits and be done, now we have to put salamander heaters in the house for several hours and even days to thaw the piping out and then fix the leaks. care to guess which one costs the home owner less? Naturally, since a lot of folks think or have heard that PEX won't freeze, they tend to run it in outside walls, behind cabinets, through unheated crawlspaces, in attics and then wonder why it froze up on them. Want some real fun? Try thawing out a frozen radiant slab sometime.

Oh yea, rat poison. Plaster of Paris is commonly used in rat poison also. It reacts with the moisture in the rats stomach and hardens into an undigestible ball.

Ok post up some pics of pex that has frozen and burst. I'd like to see it.....because I have yet to see any down here. Last year was the coldest year on record I believe here......I only had calls for copper and cpvc that burst. There are miles and miles of pex it in attics here.

I've pumped up some pex to 100psi with a shut off valve on it...turned the valve off and threw it in the freezer for a month.....thawed it out and it still was holding pressure. You could never do that with copper. Installing pex fittings close together will not allow the pex to expand and it WILL split when frozen.

You raise it temp to above 32 degrees. It thaws right out. You do that with a heat source.

Guess you miss my point. The house has normal heat, but a pex line freezes in the wall or attic or better yet, as I have seen a few times frozen under the cement basement floor. Now how do you thaw it safely? Cannot hook up a pipe thawing machine and thaw it out that way can you?

Comment

Guess you miss my point. The house has normal heat, but a pex line freezes in the wall or attic or better yet, as I have seen a few times frozen under the cement basement floor. Now how do you thaw it safely? Cannot hook up a pipe thawing machine and thaw it out that way can you?

You dont make a point by asking a question. I answered your question.

Common sense tells you its plastic and a pipe thaw machine will not work.