A leap out of the Watchtower grip can be hard but it is worth the effort!

A friend of mine recently wrote this thoughtful update on his life1 and where he is at now that ten years has passed since he moved away and faded from the Witnesses. His mentally unstable JW ex-wife tried to get him DFed and sent out the elders to pursue him but they were unsuccessful. I know this man personally and can say he is a friendly, caring, generous person. Like anyone, we have variations in viewpoint and how we see God, but that’s what makes the world and the billions of lovely people in it so amazing. So anyway, here is how he is getting along in his own words:2

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10 years ago I stopped attending Jehovah’s Witness meetings for good. Walked out of the kingdom hall cold turkey never to return based on injustices I observed among others and myself at the hands of elders giving out not God’s counsel but personal opinions as counsel. Some of them weren’t even giving out WT Society counsel- just personal opinions. This alleged “counsel” destroys lives if followed, breaks up families, and the stress from having to live up to “perfect” expectations can drive Witnesses around the bend mentally, emotionally, and physically. Many like myself – at one time or another reach our “breaking point” where we just cannot take the micromanagement of our personal lives anymore. I reached that point at age 44 over 10 years ago after having been born and raised in the JW cult for 44 years.

It wasn’t until AFTER exiting the Jehovah’s Witness organization that I started learning how insane, destructive, and criminal this organization REALLY was as I was under “information control” not allowed to be exposed to outside information to educate my mind and be informed so as to have a fuller, clearer picture of how myself and other JWs were SO deceived and manipulated. These are a few of the points I thought I’d share that I discovered so perhaps newly exiting Witnesses hoping to have freedom of mind will perhaps feel LESS guilt or fear in starting a new life after leaving the Witnesses and WT Society organization.

1.

The thing that puzzled me being raised up a JW was always being told how “special” we were as Witnesses. Phrases were used to control our thinking like “you are a people for special possession” or we were such “privileged people” when compared to allegedly “worldly people” whom Jehovah would destroy at Armageddon because they were “sinful” and not in the Jehovah’s Witness organization. In my opinion I feel that this is one of the main reasons Jehovah’s Witnesses have such an ELITIST attitude about themselves being better than non-Witnesses due to the fact that this “privileged people” thinking is pushed so hard into their psyche by WT leaders and writers from the moment they start reading JW material or listening to talks at kingdom halls. And the ironic thing is that JWs are ONLY considered “special” to Watchtower Society leaders interests based on how much they attend meetings or donate contributions to WT Society interests. In reality- in the REAL world JWs are no more special than ANYBODY else on the planet – except in their own eyes THEY feel more worthy than non-Witnesses. Once a Jehovah’s Witness sees the WT Society for what they are (a money making corporate business disguised as a religion) and exits the religion- they no longer remain a “special person” to ANY former JWs they knew. Including WT leaders. They become expendable.

2.

As Jehovah’s Witnesses we were told that to be considered “spiritual” we had to attend 5 meetings a week, go out in weekly field service, give talks on the podium in the Theocratic Ministry School, raise our hands and comment at meetings, turn our field service time in at the end of each month, clean the kingdom hall restrooms and building, pull weeds in the parking lot, take a “written review” (now it’s an oral review lol) once a month to see what we learned, carry microphones up and down aisles if we “qualified” as male JWs, be parking lot attendants at assemblies, make hoagie sandwiches at assemblies and Kingdom Hall builds, etc. etc. The point I’m making is as long as we performed all these WT “functions” we would be considered “spiritual”. Being “spiritual” had nothing to do with showing love, kindness, mildness, self control, or long suffering the Bible “fruitages of the spirit” – no, not at all – being considered “spiritual” was ONLY performing WT Society functions AS directed by the WT Society whose leaders THEN told you if you were “spiritual” or not by performing WT functions. It had nothing to do with being kind, good as a person, or helping brother or sister older ones giving food, care in their homes, or rides to the store. THOSE things were NOT considered WT Society functions or WT “priorities”.

So what this thinking and mentality created was JW “brothers” being appointed to positions of elder, Circuit Overseer, etc. based on how well they performed WT Society functions – NOT how kind or loving or considerate or Christian they were in their personalities. So think about it: How else can you explain men being appointed as elders who continue as such for years as they perform WT functions well at the kingdom hall, yet they may have beat their wives, children, molested children, or otherwise have been really scumbags in their personalities- yet got away with it for years? Even NOW many of these men serve in these positions and no alleged “holy spirit” has them removed from their positions, which leads me to my 3rd point.

3.

The WT Society leaders and Jehovah’s Witnesses are NOT led by any alleged “holy spirit”. There IS no such thing [in the WT organization]. If there was, a God or “Jehovah” would have exposed it and chosen another organization. And who knows if that has ever happened? It’s a subjective answer and cannot be proven.

4.

I also have learned that YOU and I as exiting Jehovah’s Witnesses ARE special based on WHO we are individually- NOT in association with any particular organization, religion, company we work for or whatever. We are special based on having humanity and what we bring to the table in sharing peaceful relations with others based on sharing our love, life, freedom of thoughts and expressions in order to afford other people the freedom to have their thoughts and expressions. You don’t have to think the same way I do, nor do I have to agree with you. You want to be religious? Fine. Atheist? Fine. Agnostic? Fine. Any of us can and should have the freedom of mind to choose WHO or WHAT we are based on access to information and not be made to feel guilty or in fear because of that.

5.

Last but not least I have learned that I was lied to by an organization that has committed criminal actions towards other humans – and yet- will probably never be held liable in a court of law because WT Society actions have been done in the name of “freedom of religion” by the U.S. constitution. Children and other led to their deaths by refusing blood transfusions, Malawi JWs being killed for not signing a political party card, while the same thing was not required of Mexico JWs. JW children being molested in the thousands by authority figures within Jehovah’s Witness congregations without the molesters going to jail or having to answer for felony child abuse. Adults and minor children committing suicide because of being shunned and kicked out of JW families due to following shunning policies by the WT Society. The WT Society has EXTREME bloodguilt on their heads and it will continue as long as the WT organization carries on it’s criminal policies like it has the last 134 years unabated.

In closing I have learned I CAN and AM happier not being enslaved by an organization that didn’t give a damn about me or others like me. I now have much more enduring friendships, a better non-Witness wife, I have the opportunities to pursue my business more fully unencumbered by pressures to perform “WT functions”. I can pursue fun hobbies like playing music on my guitar, singing, hiking & fishing in the mountains, help others in volunteer work without guilt, and feel really good about myself without having to give ANY credit to “Jehovah’s Organization” for the good that I do. My self esteem has been built up over these last 10 years and my happiness increases more ad more as the years go on.

So that’s about it for my ramblings. If any of you newly exiting are reading this, please realize that in your leaving or exiting the Jehovah’s Witness cult- your life isn’t ending, your whole life is just beginning with positive, new beginnings that will take you places towards freedom and fulfillment. Be patient. It’s tough at first, but in time you WILL succeed in having a happy life free of guilt and fear that the WT Society instilled into us. I raise my glass tonight to all of you who have escaped to freedom of mind! Keep on keeping on, O.K.? We can all do this! Peace out and much love to every last one of you. Peace out, Mr. Flipper
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Thanks Flipper for being so sincere and direct in sharing your thoughts and experiences that will help more to break free from cult mind control. If anyone wants to attend the upcoming 7th Annual TTATTfest for 2014 Flipper is the founder and organizer. This year’s event is scheduled for the July 4th holiday in the beautiful Lake Tahoe, California area. If you want more details please email me at JWStruggle at gmail [dot] com. Also, the article entitled, “TTATT-Fest 2013! Can you be there?” has a report on last year’s TTATTfest and how much fun we all had. FLipper and I will be there and I will be setting up a literature counter just like I did last year. No really I will! 😉

71 Comments on Ten years after leaving the Jehovah’s Witness Religion

Thank you for sharing this story, I feel that there are many of us who first left because of the unfairness and the micromanaging by the elders who at times like was mentioned only came at me with “council” that really was their own personal opinion and not even the societies, so going even beyond that is just crazy when I look back and think about it and if you were a good jw then you listened and put up with it even though the same council did not apply to them or their family. I remember when i was announced as not being a Ministerial servant anymore for not keeping up appearances, I had cancer and could not attend all the meetings and preform all the duties, not because of some “sin”. I also remember deciding once and for all to never step foot inside a kingdom hall ever again when the elders called me in because an elder with whom my family has had many run ins with had contacted my elders to tell lies and inquire about my “spirituality”, he is an elder in my GF’s congregation, I came in and was very honest with them and open and had an elder whom i considered my friend tell me that because I was not attending the meetings it was hard for them and the “friends” to not beleive such rumors since I was not attending the meetings. When I asked him what exactly he and the other elder had spoken about(considering it would only be fair for him to be honest with me since I had been open and honest with them) he looked at me and told me ” what me and brother [so-and so} spoke about is between me and him, in that exact moment, at that very second i decided was the very last straw and i would not pretend anymore i was going to fade for good and have not set foot back inside one of those places in 10 months, and i can say that my life is better im not a slave anymore in any way of that religion and have celebrated my birthday the holidays will have surgery soon and am willing to accept blood and live my life the way I see fit and feel closer to God than ever. I also realize that no one has all the answers and that’s okay because the main thing is to show love and be kind to others no matter what, and we don’t have to all believe (or not believe) in the same thing, or have the same ideas.

C M:
Thank you for sharing this story, I feel that there are many of us who first left because of the unfairness and the micromanaging by the elders who at times like was mentioned only came at me with “council” that really was their own personal opinion and not even the societies, so going even beyond that is just crazy when I look back and think about it and if you were a good jw then you listened and put up with it even though the same council did not apply to them or their family. I remember when i was announced as not being a Ministerial servant anymore for not keeping up appearances, I had cancer and could not attend all the meetings and preform all the duties, not because of some “sin”. I also remember deciding once and for all to never step foot inside a kingdom hall ever again when the elders called me in because an elder with whom my family has had many run ins with had contacted my elders to tell lies and inquire about my “spirituality”, he is an elder in my GF’s congregation, I came in and was very honest with them and open and had an elder whom i considered my friend tell me that because I was not attending the meetings it was hard for them and the “friends” to not beleive such rumors since I was not attending the meetings. When I asked him what exactly he and the other elder had spoken about(considering it would only be fair for him to be honest with me since I had been open and honest with them) he looked at me and told me ” what me and brother [so-and so} spoke about is between me and him, in that exact moment, at that very second i decided was the very last straw and i would not pretend anymore i was going to fade for good and have not set foot back inside one of those places in 10 months, and i can say that my life is better im not a slave anymore in any way of that religion and have celebrated my birthday the holidays will have surgery soon and am willing to accept blood and live my life the way I see fit and feel closer to God than ever. I also realize that no one has all the answers and that’s okay because the main thing is to show love and be kind to others no matter what, and we don’t have to all believe (or not believe) in the same thing, or have the same ideas.

Thanks for your story Mr. Flipper. I enjoy your posts on JWN. I am remaining a hostage until my wife wakes up. I think it may be happening so I am very excited. Every time I go to the meeting with my wide open eyes and freedom of mind I just can’t believe I was ever really a part of such a goof ball organization.

I have been a JW since I was 5 years old. I was fully dedicated up until 13 years ago when I became a elder at 27 and saw the extreme mind control and the effects disfellowship had . But unfortunately I still in heart believed the JWs were right despite my misgivings.

Also my entire life was wrapped around JWs I spent 5 years at there headquarters and then years pioneering and traveling working on branches around the world .I come from a family of 8 children and we were all raised Jws but almost all of them have gotten out, many of them were Disfellowshipped and so as a good JW I cut them Off .

At 30 years old i got married and stepped down as a elder as I could not stomach it anymore . My wife and I had 3 kids and for years I attended meeting half halfheartedly (this was always a sore spot in our marriage as I was always lacking as a spirtual head). Then about 4 years ago I decided I needed to get back into it for my family and became a Ministerial servant.

Then a good friend of mine was doing some of his own research into the witnesses and that is when I saw the organization for what it is. He told his wife he was not going to meetings anymore and told her what he found . She in so many words let it be known she did not want to share her house with a apostate. So he moved out and they are no divorced. Jehovah hates a divorcing exept if you are leaving the JW’s .

So that brings me to were I am today I have 3 children ages 9, 7 and 5 . My wife is not a super devote JW but her entire social circle is wrapped around the congregation and she has no outside friends. Also she will not look into the working of the organization, I believe if I left I would either have to get separated or become a outcast in my own home .

So what is it I do? How do I leave and save my family? The organization tore my family apart when I was younger ( I could write a book on what happened to my family growing up as my father never became a JW and my mother was mistreat by the elders and we were all treated as second class citizens since my father was a unbeliever )- and now I can see that happening again but in a even more intense way .
At this point I know what I have to do , but can not stand the idea of breaking up my family.

TrappedJW I’m in the exact situation you are. I don’t have any answers either. I feel like I have no choices. I love my wife but she is horribly fearful and won’t look at the evidence. I’ve begged her to search but she is paralyzed and thinks I’ve been deceived. I love her dearly and 3 years in and I’m still no closer to getting my poor wife out. I’m trapped too and hopelessly depressed.

The Faithful and Discreet Slave asks all those who stopped associating with Jehovah’s people because someone in the congregation hurt them, to ask themselves ‘Was it Jehovah who offended me, or was it an imperfect human? Is my live now more meaningful, and am I happier?’

Did Paul leave Jehovah’s appointed priests when they were offensive to him? Yes. Because they were no longer concerned with Jehovah’s standards. We didn’t leave the Organization because of an incident with one or two offensive people, Sunset. And we didn’t leave Jehovah at all. Any more than Paul did. Our lives are more meaningful because we’ve put aside the paranoia/hate of the world that the GB taught to us. Our fellowship is now legitimately Christian, rather than goody-two-shoes Puritanical.

The article above shows someone who has completely abandoned the Org. to Satan, as something entirely unholy, but not all of us here feel that way. The Org. is certainly too big for its britches and has appointed a million or so men to act as elders, most of whom are not qualified to do so, but our concern is that the people in the pews don’t understand that they are subject ONLY to Jehovah and not the GB. You have pointed out the FDS’s words over and over, so I’m worried that you haven’t figured that out yet either. Do you put the Org. ahead of Jehovah, Sunset? If you say there is no difference than I would ask you to consider if the men running the Organization are infallible, as Jehovah is infallible. If not then Jehovah has to come first.

Many of us have looked at the scriptures with far more care than the average publisher has; because of that we’ve seen the invasion of doctrine that Jesus condemned. I can’t go out in service any more because if I show someone what is in the bible and then have to discount a purely doctrinal teaching of the Org. I would be disfellowshipped. Can you see how frustrating that can be for someone like me who puts Jehovah above all things? I won’t condemn the Org. as something unholy for the same reason that Jesus taught his disciples to not to condemn the Pharisees (Matt 23:1-4), but I cannot go beyond what is written, and that is a requirement of an active publisher– to teach what is not true.

Everyone has a reason as to why they left, personally i saw alot of things while growing up and left because of the hipocrisy of the “friends” that I was around. I came back became and MS and was a victim and saw how the politics work in the organization, i still tried to defend it and realized that in reality this religion was not the “truth”, i hurt so badly, i cried, then i became angry, as if I had wasted my life. Jehovah has helped me get rid of my anger and now I have faded and still defend the JW’s when people try to spread lies, but we cannot deny the facts sunset we really can’t. Now that I know what I know it is harder for me to go to the meetings, because I don’t actually care much for half the JW’s I know and because half of what I hear being taught at the kingdom hall is baloney and i get anxiety and panick attacks and have found myself to actually be very rude towards the friends when they say or ask me something I don’t like so I have not gone to any meeting for 10 months at all, i went to a jw funeral and the district convention, but i never plan on coming back to that because i really feel so much better now, I am free and feel closer to Jehovah than ever, I pray to him and read the bible more often than i ever did as a jw without the “help” of the watchtower literature and instead read essays and other literature written by people with doctorates on bible subjects who are very intelligent and explain/say things that make more sense to me than anything i ever read in the jw literature and i have gone to church services of non denominational christian groups where it is okay to no agree with everything that is being taught there and openly disagree and talk about it with other members without the fear of being shunned or punished, in my opinion nobody has all the answers and that is okay and we don’t all have to agree on everything because no two people are exactly the same.I pray that you too find happiness and even if you still decide to keep going to the meetings and being an active jw after having learned ttatt that is fine but at least you will not allow this religion to hurt you and control you.

Thanks, CM, for that. I remember what a harrowing experience it was when Jah revealed the worst aspects of the Org. to me. I was so frustrated. I couldn’t figure out what He wanted from us in the way of service, and that really left me in a panic. I took up a sincere bible reading program, like you, and suddenly had a whole new world of information to digest. A few years later and all I can think is, “Even though JWs know more about their bibles than many Christians, they still know so very little when they’re so deeply hindered by the WT doctrine.”

Really appreciated your comment droid! It was the GB that “stumbled” me with their unscriptural doctrines and policies that offended my Bible trained conscience. What did Jesus say about ones causing stumbling to his little ones? “Woe to the one through whom they come. It would be of more advantage to him if a millstone were suspended from his neck and he were thrown into the sea than for him to stumble one of these little ones.” (Luke 17:2) I do hope for their sake, the GB repents and asks for forgiveness, for the thousands upon thousands they have stumbled….otherwise I fear for their future.

Hello every one I would like someone to help me. I really need some help getting through to the love of my life. But he is very resistant. I have even tried show him old publications and he isn’t really interested in reading them. He’s argument is:” So what if the watchtower has made mistakes before, that does not mean they don’t have God. Were the Pharisees without God when they were incorrectly teaching the people before Jesus died? Where the isrealites not God’s people then? So that doesn’t mean jehovah’s witnesses are not God’s people.” I really need some help with this point of discussion. If you respond it would mean the world to me.

Maybe my personal opinion could help you… I think that it is important to respect people for who they are and want to be. That is true love. At the same time, also love yourself: Don’t let your happiness depend on him. Set your own line, your own goals and follow them truly. As much as he cannot force you to do things against your will, you can’t do that to him either. I know from experience how the JW’s taught us to close our minds and all think alike. We never learned to appreciate the differences in human thinking. The beauty is, that now that you are free from the organization, you can think freely. But also appreciate freely. Think about it!

Gideon

Tyi:
Hello every one I would like someone to help me.I really need some help getting through to the love of my life.But he is very resistant. I have even tried show him old publications and he isn’t really interested in reading them. He’s argument is:” So what if the watchtower has made mistakes before, that does not mean they don’t haveGod. Were the Pharisees without God when they were incorrectly teaching the people before Jesus died? Where the isrealites not God’s people then?So that doesn’t mean jehovah’s witnesses are not God’s people.” I really need some help with this point of discussion. If you respond it would mean the world to me.

You make a good point, Gideon. That advice, however, works a lot easier if we don’t have to come home each day to someone who believes God has given them a calling to correct our behavior. Sooner or later our dear family or spouse may come around to our thinking, but most likely they will continue to make things difficult for us because they don’t know what Christianity is, except for the doctrine they’ve been given by the WT. You’re never free from the Organization when they have a spy in your house. Even if you don’t have one in your house, it takes a long time to move them out of that place in your forehead where they spent so many years. As much as I’d like to be respectful to those who are still in their clutches, I’m sure a pained look of annoyance comes across my face when I speak about the truth of God’s word with my family, and they respond with WT literature. They are so deeply convinced that is has all been thought out by the FDS that they don’t understand why anyone needs to put any thought into the matter. They don’t realize that they have had their brains shut down on the matter. The frustration is just too deep to say, “love yourself and others and be respectful to their views.” For we don’t get the same courtesy in return.

Oyoyoy– that’s a rough one. I would say the best argument against that viewpoint is that it applies to EVERY Christian religion. I would want to know why your husband grants such leeway to the WatchTower but not to Pentecostals, Lutherans, etc. The Pharisees, Sanhedrin, and Scribes were ALL Jews claiming to represent the true God Jehovah, and ALL of them backed their position with scripture. They were even sincere! The beliefs of the rest of Christendom are also based on scripture with varying degrees of accuracy, so we’re in the same circumstances today. Jesus was a prophet who backed his work with action, so the Jews had no right to reject him. Contrarily, the WT has made a lot of predictions that have not come to pass, so they are clearly not blessed with unique insights when compared to other religions. I would ask him to pray for wisdom on the matter. It worked for me and others here.
You could also start a thread in the Forum which you can click on at the top of this page. The regulars post there, rather than just browsers, so you might find more focused insights than here. Please keep us updated.

Hi Tyi! Welcome! Droid gave some good advice there. Your approach would depend on whether you are a JW or ex-JW yourself. I think JWs pretty much dismiss old literature because they are so convinced of the “new light” teaching. New light in their eyes legitimately erases past mistakes. He will quickly close his ears to outright criticism, because it is unthinkable to him that JWs might not be the “only true religion”. It is too mind shattering to think about. What may be most effective is to try to get him thinking about things he has personally observed, that may trouble him. Most JWs I know refuse to believe the WT teaching that only JWs will survive Armageddon. Huge portions of the globe have yet to be effectively reached by JWs, yet Armageddon is supposed to be imminent. In their minds they reason that people will be judged by what’s in their hearts and not by their response to the preaching work, yet this is not what their governing body says. They have tremendous pressure on them to do the preaching work, but numbers of JWs in wealthier lands is stagnating or reducing….less preachers. Most JWs will be suffering tremendous guilt in that they are not committing enough time to the “life-saving preaching work”. Or they invent reasons why they cannot do it. The conscience of any good JW should be bothered by this.

Tyi,
Several things made my wife wakeup.
Here are just a few: First I showed her the October 8, 1968 Awake! Magazine (you’ll have to get it from Bound Volume because Watchtower intentionally goes back as far as 1970 on the cd-rom library….that’s another thing also.)
That particular magazine is riddled with many false statements particularly that “only a few years at most remain of this system.”

Also, have your mate take the 1995 Awake! Bound volume and turn to October 1995 and look at the first page and have him read where it states why Awake is published, “Most importantly….etc”. Then have have him turn over one month to November and read the exact paragraph and then ask him “How does Jehovahs’ promise about the generation of 1914 change in just one month?”
These things woke my wife up as well as many more.
Hope this helps.

Dear Flipper,
What an amazing, honest, heart-felt story of your own, experience strength and hope. Everything you wrote about was what I have seen and experience in this cult for 40, and because I was raised in a controll family, I was ripe for a cult and did not even know it, except on some deep subconscious level, my emotional health was going south, with major depression and suicide thoughts, feelings of not good enough, I was not ok with Jehovah, at least this is what this cult did, it turned works of the flesh into the saving grace instead of accepting Christ as my mediator and savior. The cullt almost succeeded I. Stealing the goodness, and in a sense killed the Christ in my life. But Jehovah rescued me, and now I see the thing with causes desolation and sits in the place of Jehovah. I quit touching the unclean thing that is going to be destroyed by Jehovah
One day.
My life is so much is so freed up of countless laws, and traditions of man. no wonder Christ was so condemning of the pharisis, as they are alive and well today and operating under the banner of Jehovah’s name today.
Get out of her people, so you do not share in the plagues of Babylon, key is seeing the evidence of a bad religion. Saten’s is a master at disguising himself, the best Idea is to act as Jehovah, create an organization using God’s name, creating a legalism to distract people, creat a special people, reward the suckers with man-made human titles, and Atta boys, punish the non-compliant, and steal the Christ and kill him again.
It is all based the the oldest lie in the book. It worked on Adam and Eve and it still works today. But thank God the time is headed toward more info and the arrival of the computer, and people are speaking out. The clay of humanity does not mix well with the iron the the feet will be defeated. The statue is about ready to fall, get out OF THE Way!
Bless you all that are coming to freedom and pray for the ones still enslaved. Love you all

Such an excellent point, that elders are often appointed by how well they fall in line and perform grunt work, not by how loving and considerate they are toward others. In all my years as a JW, I knew of maybe 2 elders who were good men; most weren’t even courteous and polite! Domestic violence, child abuse of all sorts, screaming, bossing people around, expecting people to blindly obey their every word even over minor things that weren’t their business; these were all too common. Like you, I started to become much healthier and happier once I left, even though every day is a struggle to rebuild and reclaim what was taken from me.

It’s funny how the JW life was different in the 1960’s, 70’s, and 80’s.
Today It almost seems like JWs are just going along with the motions: go to meetings, go out in service occationally, go to assemblies, yada yada yada..blah blah blah. It really seems like nowadays most JWs are burnt out from the usual JW grind.
I guess that’s why most are leaving now more than ever.

It’s interesting that when most people leave THEY ARE HAPPY. As soon as my wife and I stopped going to meetings 10yrs ago we became happier than ever before. The weight of living the witness life was lifted off. We could now have freedom to do whatever we want.

Charles Kingsley’s ‘wisdom’ is as vague as the question Pilate asked, “What is truth?”

The god of the Old Testament applied situational ethics, thus proving that there cannot be objective morality. Mankind has emulated his example, not obeyed his laws. If this god was a human,we would have long since arrested him.

Miscreant droid
Can you please ask anyone on the forum do they know why csaba has been
locked out of the forum.
Its posiible its a “Nitch in the system.
l have asked the moderators but they do not do anything about it.

I tried to edit my above remark, but now I am described as ‘undefined’ and my revision failed to go trough. How strange. Regardless, I was going to point out how I had trouble accessing the main page when Yuku was updating their advertising, so the problem may be nothing more serious than that. Things panned out after a week or so, and I was able find other routes to the forum through Google in the meantime. Csaba might be able to do the same.

Thanks Guys.
But Yuku does not accept my name and password. Yes l have asked the moderator a few times to help me but l get no help. Have approached JJ he said he would look into it still waiting. ‘l may figure it out myself. mmmm lets see if l can.

Its all gone weird on me. l even tried to get a new one and that also had problems. But it put my name up?
Ah well, patience is a virtue possess it if you can “Always in a woman, but never in a man.
“Just joking. My mum used to say that to dad all the time.
Ruth

Ruth , dear sister , I have a perplexing situation too . And I know you have the solution . I have another picture that I would like to use ; one from this past springtime . When I look at my profile I somehow cannot find that dialog for changing my pic . Can you give a suggestion for this ? Anyone else’s direction is welcome also . . . thanx in advance . . . dw

Daniel. l also have this problem about getting a picture up.
To day a sister came and put a new prohile up for me as l cannot get the old one going.
l started writing a reply on the new one as far as Yuku was concerned l was ready to go.

When l pressed reply to get it on the web it automatically told me to go back and longing in?
Could it be anyone behind the the scene doing this that is a moderator? Just asking because im getting pretty angry. “Does someone want me to go away?
If so why don’t they tell me im off the forum. ‘And for what reasons?

Daniel im going no where. l will fight to get back on. l will fight to see why lm being targeted.’ No moderator has come to my aid thats for sure. Thanks Daniel.
Still doing the sabbath by the way! Are you?
Ruth

This is just one of those things that happens with computers. The first time I got blocked from the Struggle I also wondered if I had ticked off a moderator. It took more than a week for my system to be able to enter certain parts of this forum, and in the meantime I had found other ways to move around through this site by checking all the other options that popped up when I entered “TTATT” or “JWStruggle” into the google search engine. Don’t take this as an omen or anything. Just another one of life’s silly little frustrations. You’re wanted and needed here, so don’t give up!!!

I’m sorry I don’t have much computer expertise, but there might be someone you know who does, or you might still have a call line open with the company you got your system from. You might also be able to contact Yuku and alert them of your problem. I’m sure they want your business, so they might be the most helpful option. If I come up with any more suggestions, I’ll post them right off.

I am having trouble posting on the blog. It keeps asking me if I have filled in the fields correctly. Anyway, Tyi, if you’re still around, try reading this article off freeminds.orghttp://www.freeminds.org/psych/openmind.htm

That was a fun article. I’m fairly certain that it applies to ALL religions, though. –Maybe that’s the point– to make segregationists, like JWs and Mormons, learn to accept that there are other Christians out there. They get so hung up on Christmas trees though, and to a certain extent I can see why– it’s so obviously tied to pagan rituals that it’s hard to ignore (even for us dissenters). I’m still not convinced that anyone needs to be brought out of the Org. to serve God faithfully, but I’d sure like to see some reform. With enough of them questioning the validity of the FDS that could happen. Here’s hoping.

I was raised and educated Catholic and was attending church right up until I studied with JWs at the age of 22. Catholic indoctrination was nothing like JWs. The words, “The one and only catholic apostolic church” were only just words. I frequently used to ask myself, “How do we know the Buddhists aren’t right?” (I didn’t know anything much about any religion,even my own) I never condemned anyone of another faith. I also was the black sheep in my family and refused to go and see the pope when he was visiting the country! I remember saying, “He’s just a man!” Why did it take me 22 years to say the same thing about the GB? I don’t feel harmed by the Catholic Church, but I feel damaged by the WT.

I guess since Catholics rarely open their bibles most of them wouldn’t be able to defend their doctrines. JWs study plenty, but fall short of rational insight when it comes to their God-given right to think freely. How does the expression go?– “A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing.” When I started looking outside the Org. a whole world of hidden information was made available to me, but that’s because I was already certain that I’d been lied to about portions of the bible. The Org’s methods of blocking insightful studying are far more advanced than anything that the Catholics use, but they would have to be, since such clever deception wouldn’t even be required for people who’d been told absolutely nothing about the bible. I still think that like the Pharisees before them most Elders are sincere in their belief that they serve God faithfully. Greater minds than ours have fallen prey to their own deceptions though. It would be charitable to grant them pity, but we all have a line that can be crossed where such charity suddenly becomes unthinkable. If I were to put myself in Jesus’ position, where he asked mercy in behalf of a blood-thirsty crowd who were happy to watch Him die as way to cap off a tedious day, I wouldn’t have been capable of such charity. I’m still way too irritated with several specific Elders to believe I could offer a sincere prayer in their behalf, even though they were guilty of far, far less than Jesus’s tormentors. I just can’t blame you, sweetheart. The anger becomes tolerable, even insignificant, after a few years, but it never goes away entirely.

Thanks droid. I sometimes wonder how different the expectations are between those “born-in” and those converted later on. If I had grown up JW and observed the hypocrisy, etc, my expectations of the organisation would have been significantly different I think. They may have been more realistic. When I was first studying with JWs I bought into the highly idealistic picture that was painted of the organisation. For a long time I believed that, despite the evidence right in front of my face. When the illusion was finally shattered I felt “righteously indignant” I suppose. I’d been sold a lemon, so to speak….but if you’d always known it was a lemon…well…

I think being born into it is worse. No one from a JW family ever really starts putting serious study time into the WT until they’re baptized. If you have a modicum of intelligence the doctrinal inconsistencies can be heartbreaking when you’re facing disfellowshipment within a few years just for asking questions, for not believing what isn’t true.

BeforeTime just put up an article from another exJW turned Preterit in the Bible Questions and Discussions section. When she (Julie, from the article) began attending other churches she was met with the same threats of ‘heresy’ for bringing up a subject that was a big no-no, and other such nonsense. LEMONS FOR EVERYONE!!!

I am still a JW but am having second thoughts about it lately. I was df’d once in the past already and am thinking of slowly fading out this time around. I don’t know, I was just never completely sold on the idea that the governing body is directly approved by Jehovah. I also feel like there’s so much work involved with being a jw, it’s almost like a job! You breathe, eat, sleep, talk everything pertaining jw. Plus I’ve never felt zealous or eager about been a pioneer, like most do. I feel like I’m the odd ball out. Some of my family members are witnesses too and I live with them at the current moment. I’m just waiting to get enough money saved up before I start the full on fading process. Just to avoid friction at home. My intentions are not to bash or talk negatively about the organization or Jehovah, but it just doesn’t feel right. I’ve never had a passion for it. I want to practice yoga, marry a normal good-hearted guy, celebrate holidays, have friends who you can trust and won’t rat you out to the elders and just live my life without having a man made organization dictate how I should live it. Sorry for the rant…just don’t have anyone to talk to about this! Peace and love.

Your instincts are right animallover! It sounds like you have a plan, but you don’t sound completely convinced that JWs are not the one and only true religion. If you don’t want to be plagued by uncertainty and doubt, do some research. There are many excellent websites and youtube videos that will make you feel much better about leaving/fading. Ex GB member Ray Franz’s book “Crisis of Conscience” reveals the inner workings of the GB and truly exposes them as NOT being directed by holy spirit. That book can be read on this site…look at “Books of interest” in the column to the right. It’s a BIG read though. I also recommend “The Channel of God” video series on onlyinchrist’s youtube channel. (He covers most of what Ray Franz says) As a bonus, he has a lovely voice to listen to!! If you have facebook there are excellent support groups with almost on tap advice. Ex-JW Recovery Group 3 is one. Please feel free to come back here though! We would like to know how you get on!

how do you deal with the organization when you want nothing to do with them, and they keep coming at you. when i was a child i went a few times, and quit, as my parents left the choice up to us kids in the house. later in life i went to the kingdom hell when i was attending college several years go. i lost 10 people that year going to college at the same time. my best friend committed suicide, uncle died of melanoma,both grand mothers passed away, lost one aunt, and some other people. Well you would think that would be enough to really screw up a person, well it got worse the jehovahs witnesses tried to recruit me, and for some time it worked. Well, i left after a while had some odd friends where i now live. i never had any idea how serious they were with the mind control, and how tough they think they are. they are manipulative, cold hearted con artists, they like to prey on people. they allow child molesters in their churches. i found out a disfellowshipped lady i know was molested by her uncle, and step dad. what is weird is recently he became a witness, and his wife is so freaked out about impressions. sometimes it feels like they think you owe them when you never owed them anything to begin with. i get harassed constantly because i do not want the church, and i was never a member, nor wqs i disfellowshipped i kinda just left the organization, figured my friends even being they are jehovahs witnesses they all of a sudden have something at stake when it was never an issue for the past 15 years i visited them. it hurts because i knew these people for so many years, and they actually convinced me to move here where i am stuck until i am complete with my college classes this quarter. i do not understand how they can do wrong but they in their organization or their own eyes they are justified yet if someone outside did the same thing they are somehow worse. these people would not allow me to take my service dog into the church with me, and said they would be my dogs. where does this smack come from. how does a person deprogram them? i mean they are brainwashed so technically they kind of do not know the wrong they do. To make matters worse these assholes have cmade at least 7 serious attempt to try to get me to submit to their jehovah god, and i have this serious issue with people who try to hurt people who resist their scare tactics. for some reasonm they do not take no for an answer, and they act like they have the right to come on my property. i think these people are bullies, and cowards. why can’t they go after people who’s lives are really messed up, going nowhere, people with no hope? I graduate in a few quarters with my degree i am very blessed i am getting. I am turning a hobby into a business, and i really have my shift together. How do i save my old friends, or is that impossible, seriously i am very hard headed, for some reason they seem scared of me their organization so they try to intimidate but it just ends up i do everything except flip them off. any of you ex witnesses have any advice, i really do not get this flack. thank you.

All of you havea lot of nerves. If you was living back in the first centuryn you would not have questioned anything about Jehovahs organization. But becouse you are Now Physically living through it today you got the nerves to question it?
Jehovahs Teachings, not my teaching, or anyone else, is lifesaving, and also please listen to this, the bible teaches us
that its doesn’t matter whether you understand it or not, the issue is being loyal.

W’reid. What are you being loyal to? You simply make the assumption that you have “the truth.” Where is your evidence? You also make the assumption that 7 men in Brooklyn have a direct line to God. Where is your evidence?

Do you honestly believe that not understanding is a virtue? With this sort of paradigm religion can inflict anything it wants. If you enjoy masochism, then that’s your problem.

Kudos, Frank. I wonder why JWs don’t praise the same ignorant loyalty Catholics offer to the Pope. I guess most of them miss the bible’s foremost message and warning: ALL of the prophets were opposed to Jehovah’s true organization due to it’s corruption. Standing by that corruption was never considered noble by God’s standards.

Thanks Miscreant Droid. Yes, religion relies pretty much on circular arguments. The scary thing is the unwillingness to apply common sense and 21st century ethics. W’reid (I’m tempted to use, W’eird, by the way, but that wouldn’t be kind)as is nearly always the case, applies Divine Command Ethics, which is the non-common-sense belief that the changing ethics of the god of the Old Testament is always right, whatever the cost to the victims.

Christianity tries its best to apply humanism in its deliberations, but often gets caught in the Divine Command Ethics trap. Never mind, at least it keeps us entertained.

I will try to make a long story short. I was raised a JW since around age 4. My father beat me often with a 1.3 for this that and the other – being a convert of out the Marines and remarried to his diehard new wife my step mom. I didn’t question what I was taught my whole life until oddly after I got reinstated – (about 14 years disassociated) My former husband and father of my 3 children was so busy being an MS and then a PO that – that was his life – not me and the kids. I was the model elders wife – said all the right things – did all the right things – encouraged Bethel for my son – did the studying- until about age 35 when I saw that my husband and I had grown apart and I decided to leave. Not saying JW were wrong – but I was just done. So I walked – leaving my babies with their dad…just in case JW were right – I didn’t want to be responsible for their deaths at Armageddon. I had an affair – deliberately to give a solid reason for my elder husband to move on with his life and I could move on with mine. I like a moron wound up lustfully married to an Arab Muslim. That itself is another long story – not to be bothered with typing. After missing my first and second child’s wedding – my son – being the oldest and having a 2nd child on the way – begged me – after being chastised to letting me stay at their house to visit for a week…please mom – I would rather you be inactive than be another religion. By 2008 I capitualated and it took 2 years to finally get reinstated. I had my son and granddaughters. My 2 daughter had left the org way back – not sure how they managed to stay undisfellowshipped – but lucky them. That same year in 2010 my beloved son was diagnosed with 2 incurable diseases and subsequently died 26 months ago today. I quit going to meetings while he was still alive – and with a non believing husband – kept shepherding calls away. My uncle is a Bethel elder – he helped me through the reinstatement process- not knowing my motives perhaps. But now I get the big lecture about how I am letting Satan win by not going to meetings. Funny when I was reinstated in CA – they never told me I had any restrictions – but when I can back to my old ‘hood’ I was informed I had full restrictions – no commenting, no field service – I forget what all. That didn’t strike me as kosher but oh well hurt me hurt me (not). My marriage is tenuous to put it mildly – and since my uncle has tried to help us with this – my husband knows all about the fruitage of the holy Spirit and proper behaviour for Christian wives…does not accept the ransom whatsoever – yet prays out loud to Jehovah how his love his wife even though she is flawed…as though he is Saint Mohammed.So stupid. He can pick and choose from his religion but I am to stick to my rules and regulations because it suits him. Has the nerve to call me a hypocrite and encourages me to go to meetings – perhaps thinking the indoctrination will make me more submissive – like the old days. Whatever. How convenient. But I hate fighting with a passion. A co-depenant probably describes me. Oh there is so much I could go on about – but frankly I am just lost. I lost my will to life with the death of my son – my safety net – the only man who never let me down…oh he could be sharp at the tongue and wasn’t happy when I went back to my Arab husband…but still now with his death he is like a saint to me. I just sometimes get afraid I won’t see him again. I don’t want to go to heaven based on my indoctrination…I really just want to join my son in death. Sure would make like simple. It’s hard staying on the edge to keep peace with my daughter in law and granddaughters. My daughters don’t bother with me because they have their own issues and hate my husband that they push me to get rid of…but fool of all women that I am I still love sometimes. Perhaps I think I deserved that pain for the pain I caused my children for divorcing their husband – I don’t flippin’ know. Please if there is a support phone line I can call for a buck up from a former sister (jealous husband) It would be helpful. I thought I could handle all this but I’m just not sure…with health problems too. Jehovah – I wonder what the f* he is doing up there because he sure doesn’t help much down here. I know I have rambled too long. Thanks for your ear. Funny how it takes getting out to realize how disgusting stupid the org is. Thanks for listening.

“Judges Struggle With Their Own Conscience When Required to Ignore Conscience of Others” (JW.org Newsroom/Legal Developments)

Another revelation of WT hypocrisy. Of course, this article’s title on JW.org expresses a truth that some consciences run rough-shod over others, but this is EXACTLY what happens in WT judicial cases where those accused actively use THEIR consciences!

I hadn’t read that article Frank. Thanks for pointing it out. The hypocrisy is sickening. The “sentence” imposed on former JWs, those who have disassociated or have been disfellowshipped because they “conscientiously objected” to a teaching or policy of the GB, is life-long, unless they make a return to the organisation. Maybe some who have been cut off from their family forever would prefer a stint in prison. Has everyone visiting this site signed the AAWA.co petition to investigate the human rights violations of the organisation?http://www.change.org/petition.....t-to-leave

Dear Apparently Not Good Enough….I was so saddened by your story. Life has dealt you some cruel blows. I can see you miss your son terribly and apart from him your experiences with men have not been good. Have you heard of AAWA? (Stands for Advocates for the Awareness of Watchtower Abuses) There is a lovely lady there called Lee Marsh who is a former JW and a counsellor.She heads the Support Team. It’s a good place to go for support, a friendly hearing ear and good advice. They have moved their forum to facebook. Here is the link.https://apps.facebook.com/fbulletin/?forum=12787
There are also other good support groups on facebook. One that I like is Ex-JW International. I can tell you more about these if you like. Feel free to e-mail me at rupunzelsawake@gmail.com

Please don’t give up sister! I will be away from my computer for about ten days so please don’t be discouraged if I don’t answer straight away! Rachel

I was in a different category than one whose family were JWs. It was so hard for me to leave and it almost destroyed me, and I had my entire family there for me. I cannot imagine the anguish of being shunned by family! Only putting love for God above everything else can give one the courage to get out of the Watchtower, and to get the Watchtower out of them.
The spiritual paradise described by the Governing Body is, in very truth, a dark, dark place. I resigned from the Denbigh, Virginia Congregation in 1975, and the feeling was like being paroled!
How I feel sorry for the Watchtower slaves.
I found my spiritual paradise in God and His Church.
I pray for everybody, including for them most in need of God’s Infinite Mercy.

Deuteronomy 18:22
When a prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word is not fulfilled or does not come true then Jehovah did not speak that word. The prophet spoke it presumptuously. You should not fear him.
(“new” NWT)
Apparently this is open for interpitation?

So I’m 25 df and lost all family and friends. I’m really lost in life becuase I feel god has left me or doesn’t hear me? He has to exist, I read the bible and it undeniable but please tell me where to go or a better religion then the jws. The gb is no prophet of the true god. Or so I feel. Please help me, please I néed answers to life,
Thanks for all your comments opinions and experiences it really helping me. Take care

So what do you people believe, that there will be a paradîse earth or a heavenly life after death. If the latter why did Jehovah not put us in heaven in the beginning. What are your beliefs about the future of mankind?

Hello Richard. I’m going along with Frank’s point on this. If we’re getting judged adversely for not having a clear understanding of whether heaven or hell or Earth awaits us after death then who could possibly stand a chance? There are many scriptures that support a wide variety of doctrines about life on Earth and/or in heaven for God’s chosen ones. Perhaps the simplest path to Christian living is found at 1st Cor. 6:9,10. Here is a list of people who won’t inherit the Kingdom (in whatever form it takes) so just do your best to stay off the list. Just curious, Richard- Do you really think that a strong faith in one or the other is of any consequence to God compared to the laws mentioned in 1st Corinth? If so then why is the information so difficult to interpret (and even contradictory in many circumstances)?

I tend to go with Richard Dawkins’ conclusion that: “I will be no more inconvenienced after death than I was before my birth.” If we complicate what should be a simple conclusion about what is either side of life we do ourselves no favours. The fact is that as far as the entropic universe is concerned it knows nothing subjectively of our presence.

I got baptized when I was 18 and I’m 19 right now. At the time I was questioning the existence of God but deep down I still believe he was there so I got baptized. I thought it was just a phase and that it was the right thing to do. Now I’m in college and going to the meetings having to pretend like I care. If I stop going they’ll attribute it to college and not the fact that I was tired anyway. I will keep pretending until I graduate and move out on my own. It’s honestly wearing me out. This stuff is all a pipe dream anyway. JW have gotten it wrong before, why not again? I’m so ready to get out!

My brother, Michael Lehre, published a beautiful book that truly expresses the “truth” of what occurred in our family (and he filtered quite a bit). I’m so incredibly proud of his honesty of how destructive this religion was to our family. His book was the catalyst for our father leaving the JW’s and recognizing them as a destructive cult. It was shocking that our father left and is now the father we’ve deserved. For anyone I the fence whose been DF’d, outcasted, felt the core issue “I’m not good enough”, deserves to read my brothers story; it will touch your heart and encourage those who left that there are those of us who have undeniable strength, courage and love and we stand united.

I am presently dating a guy who is a jw and his family too excluding their father. I come from a catholic family. He is quite serious about us being one but he wants me to become a jw. my family already see me as crazy. I see things that are not so right about d organisation but I do not know how to talk him out of it. the self righteousness, the pride, sometimes the anger. its not something I can stand. I love him and I really want to help him.

I am feeling so sad today. I havebeen DFed for almost 3 years now. My step father, who is an elder came and prayed with me today. I never turn down prayer, be it from a pastor, a rabbi, or anyone else, because I feel like GOD is with all of us, so I let him pray. I can’t say though, that I didn’t feel a twinge of a desire to go back, just to make my mom and all my friends happy. Then I thought of the “micromanagement” of my life, and I feel conflicted. I also feel very alone. I have very few friends, and no family other than my mom and stepdad here, so I am reaching out. Because I am feeling the pangs of desperation.

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