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[SCA-JML] Kataginu

Greetings All, I found some documentation on kataginu for those who have and still want to wear them and still be in period. 1). In an eight-panel screen,

Message 1 of 12
, Nov 6, 1999

Greetings All,

I found some documentation on kataginu for those who have and still want to
wear them and still be in period.
1). In an eight-panel screen, showing urban life at a kosode shop, in the
corner we see samurai wearing kataginu while gambling, the mon is clearly
noted on the right and left strips, panel dates to mid 16th century, from the
Tokyo National Museum, Japanese Costume, History and Tradition by Alan
Kennedy.
2). From a page of the Hojo Godai-ki, 1559 - 1587 (?), a young retainer is
serving sake while wearing kataginu, Samurai Warlords by Stephen Turnbull.
I think that the first reference is more reliable than the second, but in
either case, there is some confidence that kataginu were wore before 1600.

Fumio

Anthony J. Bryant

... Of course kataginu are period. There s a 1575 portrait of Nobunaga wearing one. What is *not* period are the big kataginu with the batwing folds. Those are

> Greetings All,
>
> I found some documentation on kataginu for those who have and still want to
> wear them and still be in period.
> 1). In an eight-panel screen, showing urban life at a kosode shop, in the
> corner we see samurai wearing kataginu while gambling, the mon is clearly
> noted on the right and left strips, panel dates to mid 16th century, from the
> Tokyo National Museum, Japanese Costume, History and Tradition by Alan
> Kennedy.
> 2). From a page of the Hojo Godai-ki, 1559 - 1587 (?), a young retainer is
> serving sake while wearing kataginu, Samurai Warlords by Stephen Turnbull.
> I think that the first reference is more reliable than the second, but in
> either case, there is some confidence that kataginu were wore before 1600.

Of course kataginu are period. There's a 1575 portrait of Nobunaga wearing one.

What is *not* period are the big kataginu with the batwing folds. Those are an
Edo development.

Effingham

Scott

I am sure that this question has been raised in the past, but I would like some help. I am looking for some paterns for proper period kataginu. I have found

Message 3 of 12
, Mar 5, 2008

I am sure that this question has been raised in the past, but I would
like some help. I am looking for some paterns for proper period
kataginu. I have found pictures, but no paterns or instructions about
how to make them. I do not mean the later Tokugawa style with the
overly large stiffened shoulders, but rather the smaller Momoyama
version. Thanks.

wodeford

... Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/Garb%20files/ and look for a PDF on Hitatare. It includes a kataginu pattern that should suit you.

>
> I am sure that this question has been raised in the past, but I would
> like some help. I am looking for some paterns for proper period
> kataginu. I have found pictures, but no paterns or instructions about
> how to make them. I do not mean the later Tokugawa style with the
> overly large stiffened shoulders, but rather the smaller Momoyama
> version. Thanks.
>

> --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" <scottc_4@...> wrote:
> >
> > I am sure that this question has been raised in the past, but I would
> > like some help. I am looking for some paterns for proper period
> > kataginu. I have found pictures, but no paterns or instructions about
> > how to make them. I do not mean the later Tokugawa style with the
> > overly large stiffened shoulders, but rather the smaller Momoyama
> > version. Thanks.
> >
> Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/Garb%20files/ and
> look for a PDF on "Hitatare." It includes a kataginu pattern that
> should suit you.
>
> Saionji no Hanae
> West Kingdom
>

To elaborate a little more: the kataginu is basically a hitatare
without sleeves. It is one large rectangle at the back, and two thin
rectangles hanging down the front. One of the easiest garments to
make (not sure why I haven't made more... hmmm). If you want to get
really spiffy, you can set pleats in the front--this will give you a
slight 'wing' look if you pull it off right without giving you the
monster Edo-period bamboo-reinforced parasails.

Oh, and if you are going to put a design on the back, make sure you
measure where it will fall so it doesn't hide behind your koshi-himo
of your hakama! (Oops :0)

-Ii

Seki Nakagawa

Very good point! -Sukeie ...make sure you measure where it will fall so it doesn t hide behind your koshi-himo of your hakama! (Oops :0) -Ii [Non-text portions

Message 6 of 12
, Mar 6, 2008

Very good point!

-Sukeie

...make sure you measure where it will fall so it doesn't hide behind your koshi-himo
of your hakama! (Oops :0)

-Ii

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Nick

... The Hitatare PDF is great! Does anybody have an example of what this looks like with pleats? Or a pattern of where to place them? thanks for any help!

Message 7 of 12
, Mar 28, 2008

>"JL Badgley" <tatsushu@...> wrote:
>If you want to get
> really spiffy, you can set pleats in the front--this will give you a
> slight 'wing' look if you pull it off right without giving you the
> monster Edo-period bamboo-reinforced parasails.

The "Hitatare" PDF is great!
Does anybody have an example of what this looks like with pleats?
Or a pattern of where to place them?

thanks for any help!

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "JL Badgley" <tatsushu@...> wrote:
>
> On 3/6/08, wodeford wodeford@... wrote:
> > --- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, "Scott" scottc_4@ wrote:
> > >
> > > I am sure that this question has been raised in the past, but I
would
> > > like some help. I am looking for some paterns for proper period
> > > kataginu. I have found pictures, but no paterns or instructions
about
> > > how to make them. I do not mean the later Tokugawa style with the
> > > overly large stiffened shoulders, but rather the smaller Momoyama
> > > version. Thanks.
> > >
> > Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/sca-jml/files/Garb%20files/ and
> > look for a PDF on "Hitatare." It includes a kataginu pattern that
> > should suit you.
> >
> > Saionji no Hanae
> > West Kingdom
> >
> To elaborate a little more: the kataginu is basically a hitatare
> without sleeves. It is one large rectangle at the back, and two thin
> rectangles hanging down the front. One of the easiest garments to
> make (not sure why I haven't made more... hmmm). If you want to get
> really spiffy, you can set pleats in the front--this will give you a
> slight 'wing' look if you pull it off right without giving you the
> monster Edo-period bamboo-reinforced parasails.
>
> Oh, and if you are going to put a design on the back, make sure you
> measure where it will fall so it doesn't hide behind your koshi-himo
> of your hakama! (Oops :0)
>
> -Ii
>

JL Badgley

... Here is one (not permanently pleated, but you can see how it is slightly folded when worn): http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukushoku/f_disp.php?page_no=0000100

>
> >"JL Badgley" <tatsushu@...> wrote:
> >If you want to get
> > really spiffy, you can set pleats in the front--this will give you a
> > slight 'wing' look if you pull it off right without giving you the
> > monster Edo-period bamboo-reinforced parasails.
>
> The "Hitatare" PDF is great!
> Does anybody have an example of what this looks like with pleats?
> Or a pattern of where to place them?
>
> thanks for any help!
>

>
> >"JL Badgley" <tatsushu@...> wrote:
> >If you want to get
> > really spiffy, you can set pleats in the front--this will give you a
> > slight 'wing' look if you pull it off right without giving you the
> > monster Edo-period bamboo-reinforced parasails.
>
> The "Hitatare" PDF is great!
> Does anybody have an example of what this looks like with pleats?
> Or a pattern of where to place them?
>
> thanks for any help!
>

Unfortunately, most of the other pictures I can find are of later Edo
period kataginu, but I've seen something in between.

-Ii

It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood. Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!

test'; " type=text/css>

---------------------------------
No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal for Yahoo! users and friends.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

David

oops! now that I put my glasses on, it is not an iris but the kiri crest. but real close. nice to see a kamon WITHOUT the circle! Ishikawa ... you a ...

Message 11 of 12
, Mar 28, 2008

oops! now that I put my glasses on, it is not an iris but the kiri
crest. but real close. nice to see a kamon WITHOUT the circle!

Ishikawa

--- In sca-jml@yahoogroups.com, David Nesmith <txpiper2001@...> wrote:
>
> YAY!!! THEY'VE GOT A PICTURE OF "MY" IRIS!!! (sorta)
> Ishikawa Moritake
> gules, a japanese iris or
>
> JL Badgley <tatsushu@...> wrote: On
3/29/08, Nick <eldon_seer@...> wrote:
> >
> > >"JL Badgley" <tatsushu@> wrote:
> > >If you want to get
> > > really spiffy, you can set pleats in the front--this will give
you a
> > > slight 'wing' look if you pull it off right without giving you the
> > > monster Edo-period bamboo-reinforced parasails.
> >
> > The "Hitatare" PDF is great!
> > Does anybody have an example of what this looks like with pleats?
> > Or a pattern of where to place them?
> >
> > thanks for any help!
> >
>
> Here is one (not permanently pleated, but you can see how it is
> slightly folded when worn):
> http://www.iz2.or.jp/fukushoku/f_disp.php?page_no=0000100
>
> Here's the picture they are emulating:
> http://www.sobacanada.com/DSCN0010.JPG
>
> Unfortunately, most of the other pictures I can find are of later Edo
> period kataginu, but I've seen something in between.
>
> -Ii
>
>
>
>
>
> It's loud, it's obnoxious, it scares people, it can raise the blood.
Bagpipes, the original rock 'n' roll instrument!
>
> test'; " type=text/css>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> No Cost - Get a month of Blockbuster Total Access now. Sweet deal
for Yahoo! users and friends.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Nick

This is just what I was looking for (and had passed by without even noticing) Thanks so much for the help!

Message 12 of 12
, Mar 29, 2008

This is just what I was looking for (and had passed by without even
noticing)
Thanks so much for the help!