So the keywords that I mentioned, social status, and wealth are backed by this, safety was not mentioned.

And, these studies are not totally obscure, one can find them through google.

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That does not mean alpha as there are many with status and money. Thats because most are vying for that status.

Marrying for status and money is not alpha.

Alpha has greater mating options besides being used for money. Humans have the ability to discern whether they are using or marrying for money and status only vs desirable partner. The alpha satisfies both. If he cant control or influence his wifes desire as well, then he is not an alpha.

I also think its unrealistic. Human focus on beauty and pleasure is paramount and exceedingly overwhelming. Being just able to provide with status is almost redundant and meaningless these days because many can do this. That resets the game because all cannot be defined as an alpha.

So the keywords that I mentioned, social status, and wealth are backed by this, safety was not mentioned.

And, these studies are not totally obscure, one can find them through google.

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Holy crap, great example of a bad evolutionary psychology paper!

I only wish that the paper was available with OCR so I could cut and paste.

For example, the authors confuse "good looks" with reproductive ability. "Good looks" is something that varies widely with culture.

Also, all the subjects were university students. At least they were from three different countries. However, the universities were chosen based on the access that the authors had through their own location or through family members.

So we have a small sample size, biased for people who consume a lot of a certain type of cultural products, who have certain shared experiences and attitudes.

And the results are clearly contrary to their hypotheses! For example, they do not consider athletic ability to be a sign of reproductive fitness, yet this is one that tracked lower for men than for women, contrary to their first hypothesis.

A perfect example of going in to research with cultural biases, interviewing people for results influenced by these same biases, and then interpreting data according to these same biases.

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There is a number of social studies how females chose partners. There is a hirarchy of males, but different than the above mentioned wolves. Males are rather rated by their ability to bring social status, safety and some wealth.

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That sounds like something out of a magazine in 1956. Women's rights have not reached the point of equality that we foresaw in the Counterculture era, but the average woman today has considerable ability to become popular, safe and economically comfortable.

Women almost always look for partners who are higher in social rank, wealthier or able to establish safety for the family.

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There are plenty of women who, as I noted above, are able to provide the benefits of our (more-or-less) democratic industrial civilization for themselves. They're happy to come home to a husband who is writing a book, recording a song, cooking a gourmet meal, and/or teaching the children things that they'd never learn in the average American school.

Humans also group, if there is no pressure from the outside, and these groups are often a size of about 12 members. This size has a number of reasons, briefly, a day has only so much time, and with 12 people, there can be good and frequent contact, if groups grow bigger, they tend to split because people aren't able to bond equally well with all group members and two cliques begin to form ... it still can happen that the group stays as a group, but it's then a meta-group, consisting of two cliques, working together. The number 12 is debatable. 10? 15? Might work as well. No more than 20 probably, that is somewhat certain and definitely more than 5.

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Anthropologists who are studying the few Paleolithic communities left on Earth, and archeologists who are studying the camps and caves of the people who lived 12,000 years ago before any of them underwent the Neolithic Revolution, usually find much larger groups than that. Fifty is not uncommon, and for the societies who were lucky enough to live in places with enough food to support a larger community (often several different camps separated by only a few hours' walk) they might have numbered in the low hundreds.

Furthermore, once they invented the technology of spoken language around 70,000 years ago, archeological evidence suggests that communities of the same ancestry (we can tell this by their basket-weaving style, etc.) had a summer festival at one camp or another (a lot of work for the hosts so it rotated from year to year), and caught up with the gossip of their more distant relatives. One of these events might have a thousand participants. And it was a great way to "keep the gene pool chlorinated," as the saying goes.

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Birch, I was really suspecting that you are of a biracial background if not, then you must be African American I picked up on that before but never got around to asking am I correct? Any ways you are really intelligence I enjoy reading your post always go for what you want be honest be yourself and never sell out. You are right selling out makes you feel dead inside I can relate with almost everything you are saying most all the time. It's hard to have that mentality most people are afraid to embrace because in reality you may never get what you want. But if you do then you are one of the lucky ones like winning the lottery. The reason why these feelings are so special to everyone is because everyone will not be able to have it. If it was so easy to achieve then it would be worthless like all other things that are mass produced.

Just one thing I would like to tell you is it doesn't matter how many women want a man if he is a REAL MAN he does not need to sneak around like a little boy. He can demand his terms that he will have multiple women and you can take it or leave it, to me a true Alpha fears no one and does not need to lie or decieve any one becuase he is powerful enough to face and control the full consequences of the truth. False alphas or the players becuase they are mentally weak and can't handle reality in fear of losing control in which inside thier mind they don't believe they truly have control. This is the reason they need to lie. It's based on them bieng afraid little boys and those types may never become men because they have a weak character foundation that will prevent this from happening. When real men go to battle snakes in the grass must be addressed, and going to war with weak team members essentially frauds will get you killed simply because a chain is as strong as its weakest link.

So if that real man wants you he will be faithful regardless if he can have all the women in the room. If he can't do this he is a fake and not the real deal. Becuase the real alpha probably has already been with all the women in the room already and realised he doesn't want any of them or he hasn't been with them but more or less knows he can, but doesn't want them. So if he knows himself and respects himself and is an evolved bieng he would also want a queen that he equally respects as much as himself. He must see you and him as one unit. But you cannot force someone to be this way they must choose it. It will not happen if the person does not find the one or evolve. And it will never happen if the person is a false alpha male either. A false alpha male is pretty close to a psychopath (actor) they are the same thing. False alphas are may be more or less betas that think they are alphas that take a leadership position if the rightfull leader is not available, but there are many more of these types than than real alphas just my opinion thought based on personal observation.

This is how you will know for sure you are dealing with a fake alpha when the rightful leader returns the fake alpha either fades into oblivion or try's to hold his alpha position and realizes he can't then he agains fades into oblivion.

Settling for someone too weak to tell the truth is the same as settling for someone you don't truly want but if you are physically attracted to the person then you must have enough respect for yourself to see it as not a devine relationship maybe infatuation. In my opinion 99 percent of all relationships are frauds and will never make it to the love stage I mean true love not acting or forcing yourself to do something for image or acceptance of status quo.

So with those odds you see why people settle... Go for what you want but don't give respect to those than don't give it to you because if you don't demand respect you will never get it.

Keep talking about these things eventually I migth need your content with your permission of course I may need it for this project am working on.

Is living completely in ones head, goal-oriented towards status and money deep or shallow? It could be shallow depending on ones perspective.

Is the woman who marries only for status and money rather than love deep? Or quite shallow as well. It changes things depending on perspective, does it not?

What about those who 'believe' they are deeper just because they suppress their desires or sacrifice for another outcome? Is that really true or is it in fact just what it is: personal risk/reward assessment.

What about those who define attractiveness totally based on commercial advertisement? So if the world said the blonde bombshell or GQ guy was the creme de la creme, would you lie to yourself if that is not your 'taste'? There are many physically attractive people yet ive found the most shallow tend to be those who are elitist. Their definition devoid almost of an understanding of the personal and that is pretty damn shallow. Chemistry and emotional connection is required to truly like someone. So this means people are not necessarily trying to always attain the 'next best catch' as that is defined differently for everyone. I may like chocolate and you may believe pistachio is the 'best' but that is meaningless if i dont.

Sophistication is not found just in some elite fixed echelon of society. There exist amazingly shallow people in every walk of life who completely define their experiences and choices based on acceptability or within bounds of their social status. That is also shallow as well.
What one defines as better or higher, another could percieve as empty and shallow, right?

But to put it realistically, we all have our parameters of what we want to experience, dont we?

Its tricky business throwing around accusations of shallow especially when you've only considered one end of the spectrum.

Is living completely in ones head, goal-oriented towards status and money deep or shallow? It could be shallow depending on ones perspective.

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Depends on how you define "living completely in one's head." If they do so because they find peace there, it could be deep; if they do so to perform the equivalent of mental masturbation, that would be shallow indeed.

Buddhists have better terms than "shallow" or "deep" - they refer to the states of samsara and nirvana. Samsara is the "surface" of things - the daily grind of life and death. Nirvana is the state of enlightenment you achieve when you can still the influences of samsara.

Is the woman who marries only for status and money rather than love deep? Or quite shallow as well. It changes things depending on perspective, does it not?

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From that definition, shallow. She cares for surface things.

What about those who 'believe' they are deeper just because they suppress their desires or sacrifice for another outcome? Is that really true or is it in fact just what it is: personal risk/reward assessment.

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Are they truly deep? Can't say based on that description alone. You can say that they are deeper than someone who cannot suppress their desires.

What about those who define attractiveness totally based on commercial advertisement? So if the world said the blonde bombshell or GQ guy was the creme de la creme, would you lie to yourself if that is not your 'taste'?

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That would be shallow by definition.

Sophistication is not found just in some elite fixed echelon of society. There exist amazingly shallow people in every walk of life who completely define their experiences and choices based on acceptability or within bounds of their social status. That is also shallow as well.

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Agreed there.

What one defines as better or higher, another could percieve as empty and shallow, right?

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Well, you can define words however you like. But having one set of definitions everyone agrees on makes communication a bit easier.

What is inferior/superior and better/worse is dependent on what exactly you value or particular experience you are seeking. Safety has its rewards just as risk does. We all have a different path and different avenues of finding knowledge and it cannot all be textbook style and neat though that is okay as well.

I dont care what anybody says. You have got to have extreme good looks too to be an alpha male. You have to be very desirable beyond subsistence or necessity. Just as well, when those looks fade too, so will the desirability and its time to step down. Tis life.

The reason is very obvious. Those of higher status are in a position to develop or appreciate beauty. If one discounts the aspect of beauty, then thats indicative of a lower mind or still in only subsistence thinking which is inferior. A higher mind enjoys beauty and pleasure as that is the reward of some leisure or artistic pursuit.

Faithful men are a fairy tale. They exist about as much as santa claus and the tooth fairy. They apparently exist but no one can really locate where or how to find them. It is all very vague. Some needle in a haystack somewhere in iowa, which farm and which barn you must sort out as no one can be sure. A myth or rumor most likely started by a man.

When you meet someone that makes your stomach do cartwheels, your legs turn to jelly, your whole being light up like a christmas tree and as if moses parted the red sea just so you can behold eachother as if written in the stars im not going to push the pause button and deliberate the facts like an accountant. Lets see. The cons: Gee, this may last maybe three to six months madly in love, maybe a year tops in relative bliss, then if we stay together it will start to peter down from there. We may start to argue, fight, find out our differences etc. No, chances are it will not last so better not etc etc. The pros: i will probably have a mindblowing time like on rocket fuel, possibly the best sex of my life and memories that i will take to my grave but it may not last..decisions, decisions, What to do, what to do. Its so difficult. Oh hell, you only live once. Unpause.

A divorced woman that i was speaking to about relationship problems gave me very wise opinions to consider. If everyone knew the outcome and the future filled with everything that will go wrong. People wouldnt marry, children would not be born and the continuation of the species would virtually cease. You would be left with a tribe of ten people on earth waiting it out for the final end while being suspicious or actively disliking eachother because they know what peter will do to paul or thinks of joe or sally will stab lucy in the back in two years from today.

When you meet someone that makes your stomach do cartwheels, your legs turn to jelly, your whole being light up like a christmas tree and as if moses parted the red sea just so you can behold eachother as if written in the stars im not going to push the pause button and deliberate the facts like an accountant. Lets see. The cons: Gee, this may last maybe three to six months tops, then if we stay together it will start to peter down from there. We may start to argue, fight, find out our differences etc. No, chances are it will not last so better not etc etc. The pros: i will probably have a mindblowing time like on rocket fuel, possibly the best sex of my life and memories that i will take to my grave but it may not last..decisions, decisions, What to do, what to do. Its so difficult. Oh hell, you only live once. Unpause.

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Not a bad decision - but YOU made thedecision to go into a relationship you knew would end badly. If that's what you want, go for it. Then own the consequences.

A divorced woman that i was speaking to about relationship problems gave me very wise opinions to consider. If everyone knew the outcome and the future filled with everything that will go wrong. People wouldnt marry, children would not be born and the continuation of the species would virtually cease.

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Hasn't been true in my life, nor of the lives of most of my friends. But again, I could see how a woman after a messy divorce would think that.

You have already said that many times and of course, your small little pool that intellectualizes and rationalize relationships for longevity (friends with a kernel of spark) is representative of the majority. The 50 percent divorce rate and infidelity being number one just flew right by your assessment.

Counterwise, thats like saying an extremely attractive player should be interested in your wife or vice versa. What is the problem? Likewise, you just pick someone who will be faithful vs not because lord knows people are just one-dimensional characters. Thats that and you will be happy. Lol

You have already said that many times and of course, your small little pool that intellectualizes and rationalize relationships for longevity (friends with a kernel of spark) is representative of the majority.

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Just as your relationship problems are representative of the majority?

Counterwise, thats like saying an extremely attractive player should be interested in your wife or vice versa. What is the problem?

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I don't know what you define as a "player" but of course people are attracted to other people. What's the problem there?

Likewise, you just pick someone who will be faithful vs not because lord knows people are just one-dimensional characters. Thats that and you will be happy. Lol

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Or pick someone who is (in your words) "makes your stomach do cartwheels, your legs turn to jelly, your whole being light up like a christmas tree and as if moses parted the red sea" - and is faithful. Or not. Again, your choice.

<-------------50%
(Took me awhile to figure out the relationship thing.)

Now:
When the shit hits the fan, I fall back on tolerance.
If, during the bad times, you can tolerate what no sane self respecting person should tolerate.
Then, when the good times roll around again, you are still together.
Several years ago, I figured out that I never have to fight with her(she used to be a real snarling snapping hound of a bear during her periods).....then, one fine day I responded to her baiting for a fight by calmly saying........."(name omitted) if you said that in an attempt to be nice or compatible, I gotta tell you-------"You're way off the mark"."
(long ago, I had read in a psyc. text that it is better to express your anger rather than internalizing it------(false dichotomy)--------better still is to learn to control your tendency to anger---and rise above it)

Having children, growing old together, knowing, and adjusting to, each other's patterns, comfort, and the sort of love that takes pleasure in seeing to the comfort of your beloved.