So I have been debating for a while about boats now and for people that didnt see my other post im looking for,

- Versatile wakes, (18-24mph wakes that are clean not to steep etc but can also be loaded up!)
- Decent rough water ride
- Use in saltwater

I love everything about mastercraft but the X-25 seems to be an issue about the steepness and cleanliness of the wakes at low speed which is not good for beginners to intermediate obviously.

Axis from personal experience seems to be a great versatile wake and although X-25 isnt out of my budget im think that the wake may be better (versatility wise) and also much easier on the budget, main concern about the Axis is Rough water ride and saltwater quality? how will it last with a little bit of use in salt water

I can only speak for the A22. I use mine in salt water 100% of the time. It is 2 years old and as of yesterday has 426 hours on it. I have some friends with all different brands and it seems anything with a touch screen or digital requires a lot more maintenance. We wash and flush our engine every time after use. The only issues I have had is with ballast pumps. They do not last as long in saltwater. The Axis is a great all around boat. I have young kids and all of them can ride behind the A22. I can get a clean wake at around 17 for my youngest and drop the wedge for my 12 year old, set it at 19 and it is perfect for him. We have had it loaded down (1100's) in the back and bow sac full) and it will produce a wake that is sufficient for most humans. I love how you can change the shape of the already nice wake with the wedge. The surf wave behind it isnt bad IMO. In the channel to and from our riding spot it can get rough 2-3 foot swells and it handles them fine. It is a very simple yet functional boat. I am in the market for a new one and have looked at the big 3 plus MB and have decided on an A24.

18-24mph will be fine in the x25. Low speed is fine with 0 ballast. Actually, a little front weight helps to mellow out a beginner wake. Forget anything below 18 mph though. Which I feel is a moot point anyhow..... The first thing, every beginner should learn, is to get confident with board control, and ride at 20+. Why the heck are beginners so worried about a clean wake? Why try to jump the wake, when you don't even have board control or the ability to ride at 20+ yet??

Nonetheless, If the only choices are these 2 boats, and the wallet doesn't care about the price of the X25.....go with the X25. That being said, there are a couple other boats, out there, that would suit your needs better. Especially if an X25 is in budget...... Being as you are talking saltwater though, I would probably go MC. Last I checked, they had the best saltwater package.

18-24mph will be fine in the x25. Low speed is fine with 0 ballast. Actually, a little front weight helps to mellow out a beginner wake. Forget anything below 18 mph though. Which I feel is a moot point anyhow..... The first thing, every beginner should learn, is to get confident with board control, and ride at 20+. Why the heck are beginners so worried about a clean wake? Why try to jump the wake, when you don't even have board control or the ability to ride at 20+ yet??

Nonetheless, If the only choices are these 2 boats, and the wallet doesn't care about the price of the X25.....go with the X25. That being said, there are a couple other boats, out there, that would suit your needs better. Especially if an X25 is in budget...... Being as you are talking saltwater though, I would probably go MC. Last I checked, they had the best saltwater package.

I disagree on the 20 mph. All my children ride below 20 and they have excellent board control. I feel when you are teaching children how to ride the slower the better. Their ages are 11, 9, and 7. My 7 year old can do basic W2W 180s and both HS and TS jumps. 20 MPH is fast for that little guy. Also when my older ones started to learn inverts I slowed it down until they got the feel for it. Doing that IMO helped them gain the confidence to learn the trick without taking a hard stack. Also out of curiosity what makes MC have the best saltwater package?

Ya guys, I didn't really think about young kids, and you have a very valid point there...... If you wanna tow in the 16-18mph range, the x25 wouldn't be the preferable boat.

As far as a preferable saltwater package goes-
MC has tinned wiring, instead of just tinned connectors. MC is more comprehensive with sacrificial anodes, and grounding crucial components. All aluminum parts are anodized, and hydraulic steering is another major bonus on their saltwater package. Now, I am not 100% sure that axis doesn't use any of that stuff, but last I checked, they didn't. All of those things wouldn't make a difference on freshwater but will save a lot of future headaches on saltwater.

1. is preferrence but the A22 has a more mellow beginner wake and cleaner at slower speeds. (eric, this is important to those of us with 4 year olds, or teaching little kids to ride, having wash on the wake makes learning to cross the wake a lot more difficult, so if you can have a wake that is clean at 16-17 as opposed to 18-19, that is a HUGE deal when it comes to beginners and little kids). As far as loading it up, just keep adding weight and as long as your motor / prop combo can handle it, the boat can handle it... in fact, it loves it.

I cant speak about the Axis, but i have owned two X 25's (2011 & 2012). For versatility, the boat is good. For Wakeboard wake, IMO the wake is steap and failry abrupt. I recently went from the X25 to an 09 Xstar an couldnt be happier. For some reason I always had a problem with the steepness of the X25 wake. The more ballast you throw at it the larger (and steeper) the wake is. Its great for pop, but you have to be carefull.

At 18mph (no less), I found the wake to be more tame with empty ballast and surf tabs all the way up.

Best advise is to go out and try both, and ask the dealer if you can ride behind both. Im sure that will help make your decision.

I have no experience with either boat but have a ton of experience in salt water. I would definitely get the A22 for saltwater because how simple the boat it. Salt gets into every thread on the interior and the axis has a very basic interior design where every seat pulls out. Not to mention, if a seat needs to be re-upholstered, its just a square design. If you trailer the boat to the water like I do, the whole sacrificial anodes etc is pretty pointless. The main things I would want on a salt boat it, closed cooling, dry bilge, galvanized or aluminum trailer, and the least amount of metal parts and electronics as possible. Just remember, the less the boat has, the less amount of maintenance you have to do.

In salt, the main thing that goes to trash is the trailer. But you said it would only see a little bit of salt water use, so all this really doesn't matter. If you only use it in salt a few times, and are pretty consistent at washing your boat every time, a normal boat would work just fine.

However, the a22 and x-25 have a pretty big price jump between the two. I would go for the a22 but Im also coming from a 2001 tige so even the cheap axis is luxury to me.

X25 all the way I own one and it is one of the best wakes I have ever ridden.

The attitude plate is a must for auto launch and I run mine with the plate at 60% with 4000 lbs. Wake is as good/better then a slammed 2011 Xstar. Very similar wake shape with a little bit more lip but not steep at all!

Also the best stock wake I have ever seen also using attitude plate at 60%

X25 all the way I own one and it is one of the best wakes I have ever ridden.

The attitude plate is a must for auto launch and I run mine with the plate at 60% with 4000 lbs. Wake is as good/better then a slammed 2011 Xstar. Very similar wake shape with a little bit more lip but not steep at all!

Also the best stock wake I have ever seen also using attitude plate at 60%

Dan I wanna give the x-25 another try. Couple ?'s, how are you putting 4k in the x-25? What's your setup? What line length and speed? Also what motor you using with 4k? Do you have pro package? Thanks

No way is the A22 built better than a x-25 but both boats do perform the same functions, which is throwing wakes. And both will easily last 5yrs or more running in salt. From everything the OP has said though I would lean towards the A22. Reason being is no matter what boat it is your going to take a serious beating on depreciation by running it in salt. It just makes more financial sense to destroy the cheap boat.

I agree with Ron from above. Axis is not build as well as Malibu, so thinking it is as well built as MC is laughable. Perfect example is that Malibu has a shoebox fit that is glued and screwed where Axis does not have the shoebox fit. The deck and hull have a lip that sits on each other. it is screwed together and covered by the rubrail. This is a cost cutting measure.

I agree with Ron from above. Axis is not build as well as Malibu, so thinking it is as well built as MC is laughable. Perfect example is that Malibu has a shoebox fit that is glued and screwed where Axis does not have the shoebox fit. The deck and hull have a lip that sits on each other. it is screwed together and covered by the rubrail. This is a cost cutting measure.

A better comparision would be between X25 and Malibu 22MXZ.

FYI the 2014 A24 is now a shoebox fit. Not that I am in anyway trying to get in a conversation about built quality of a price point boat compared to a luxury boat.

I have a mastercraft 07 x star saltwater series with the captain crusader engine. I ride in salt 100% of the time as well. The first time my boat touched freshwater was the other day when i took it to a river. The only problem ive had was with the exhaust manifolds which I replaced last year. I love axis and all other wake boats, but i would go with the 25. I believe the 25 is the same hull as the csx which in MC commercials was blasting through the gulf of mexico(which is where I live), but i would never dream of taking my boat out there, or an axis. Saltwater is super hard on boats so i would definitely go with the better built boat.