Every once in a while we line up snapper. This doesnt make a whole lot of sense. 11 kids is too small a number to be meaningful, and its location means that its not accessible for a large population group. Theyd be better off putting money/ effort into a travelling salesman type position that goes oit to provincial high performance programs.

ruckovercdn wrote:Every once in a while we line up snapper. This doesnt make a whole lot of sense. 11 kids is too small a number to be meaningful, and its location means that its not accessible for a large population group. Theyd be better off putting money/ effort into a travelling salesman type position that goes oit to provincial high performance programs.

I advocated for the latter option a few years ago and I haven't heard that their development people are doing that at all.

There's some pretty solid research on talent development and for a late development sport like rugby, it's such a gamble. There are not just physical but also mental aspects that can't be predicted. There's a South African study that actually tracked U13s to U18s showing only small percentages get selected for the next level (and I'd be very interested to know how many of those U18s actually went pro, let alone became Boks). Joe Launchbury is a great example: cut by Quins at 18, starred for England U20 just over a year later, selected by England not long after. We need to not only get more kids playing and sticking with the game longer, but provide regular coach support in all corners.

I referee in some areas far from the eyes of my province's big wigs and there are some real physical specimens out there who deserve better education (not to mention their coaches who can't afford to drive 5 hours for that one course a year that doesn't offer them much more than they already know).

This is a classic RC top-down approach, and I say that with nothing but respect for Kleeberger.

It does nothing for the clubs or junior rugby on a broad scale. We need more kids exposed to rugby, more kids playing rugby and more staying with rugby. I would like to see something targeting high school grads who are athletic but are finished with football/basketball/lacrosse at a competitive level. We need a shotgun, not a rifle.

I think the BCRU had a development officer or two about 15 years ago, who went into high schools spreading the gospel. I believe it was an ex National player but can’t recall who exactly.

My source tells me the funding for this program came from WR and was specifically designated by them. It affects 9 girls and 3 boys. It's not going to make a single difference to to the mens 15's now or ever. It was free money so they created a program and spent it. The best thing with it is that Kleebs get as job and he will probably get to give some of his time, paid for by WR, to the centralized program athletes.

Was_a_Kat wrote:This is a classic RC top-down approach, and I say that with nothing but respect for Kleeberger.

It does nothing for the clubs or junior rugby on a broad scale. We need more kids exposed to rugby, more kids playing rugby and more staying with rugby. I would like to see something targeting high school grads who are athletic but are finished with football/basketball/lacrosse at a competitive level. We need a shotgun, not a rifle.

I think the BCRU had a development officer or two about 15 years ago, who went into high schools spreading the gospel. I believe it was an ex National player but can’t recall who exactly.

This is exactly what needs to be done, A U23 league so we can have late bloomers playing against their peers longer. It doesn't benefit anybody by having them playing against men. ( the elite U23 (Barton) can move up and play against the stronger competition

rusty_lock wrote:My source tells me the funding for this program came from WR and was specifically designated by them. It affects 9 girls and 3 boys. It's not going to make a single difference to to the mens 15's now or ever. It was free money so they created a program and spent it. The best thing with it is that Kleebs get as job and he will probably get to give some of his time, paid for by WR, to the centralized program athletes.

I know one of the kids in this program is only there because their family is billeting one the out of province kids (hardly elite) It's been said somewhere else that these kids will not be able to play for the school team as they are a elite team centred at a neighbourhood school. passing drills are great, but kids need games also

Was_a_Kat wrote:This is a classic RC top-down approach, and I say that with nothing but respect for Kleeberger.

It does nothing for the clubs or junior rugby on a broad scale. We need more kids exposed to rugby, more kids playing rugby and more staying with rugby. I would like to see something targeting high school grads who are athletic but are finished with football/basketball/lacrosse at a competitive level. We need a shotgun, not a rifle.

I think the BCRU had a development officer or two about 15 years ago, who went into high schools spreading the gospel. I believe it was an ex National player but can’t recall who exactly.

This is exactly what needs to be done, A U23 league so we can have late bloomers playing against their peers longer. It doesn't benefit anybody by having them playing against men. ( the elite U23 (Barton) can move up and play against the stronger competition

If there is so much interest in U23 rugby, why aren't you out there organizing a U23 team that can play matches against university teams?

Watching your 7s side this past week was very enjoyable. Great group of young players in the wings champing at the bit to break into the regular side. I like how you basically looked like a Hockey team. Reminded me of how Emil Signes selected 7s players, big, powerful and fast.

Looking at our squad, it amazes me how few players are playing outside of Canada! How big of a problem is this for the future of rugby here?

On another note as a club president in manitoba, I have noticed a saddening trend at least in manitoba. According to our provincial head, we have record numbers of kids playing around the province. However our senior league is suffering, over the past 7 years we have seen numbers drop dramatically, a few clubs have folded, others have dropped teams or merged.

I think adult recreational sports are on a decline across the board. There is definetley a drop off though. Lots of guys playing a season as an 18yr old and not coming back as the school and work pressure becomes greater.

Regarding guys playing overseas... yeah i think its an issue. Ill be surprised if Coe walks away from this tour without a contract though.

I noticed this and dug through some annual reports and in Eastern Ontario (Ottawa to Kingston) and there were about 25% less adults playing between 2005ish to 2015. Only a few clubs folded, but less games/tournaments etc...mainly as there are less people to play in them. So yeah, a big decrease. I partly blame this on club rugby not being at all part of the rugby canada/provincial evaluation process. It diminishes club rugby and then people don't want to put in time/effort for a "non-serious" level of sport.

Overall I think people tend to view sports these days as professions rather than hobbies, so if you haven't "made it" by the time you are 20 the impulse is just to quit altogether. I remember reading that the same thing has happened in Ireland with adult rugby, but unlike Ireland we don't have pro or semi-pro teams so it also kills our national side since even the top 5% of players end up quitting instead of being channeled to a professional side (see McKenzie, Phil). If you aren't a pro you are basically considered to be wasting your time. If you just become a runner/fitness geek though that's considered not wasting time as you are getting healthier, at least that's how I think the logic goes.

On top of this though you've got a brutal economy for young people, increased cost of rugby (again the unions/insurance), more competing sports (ultimate, BJJ, touch football, MMA, powerlifting etc.), a reduced boozing culture and worries about concussions.

I would be willing to bet that the average dues in Canada for rugby are more than anywhere else on this planet. This has to have an impact on aggregate numbers at some point.

ruckovercdn wrote:I think you nailed it with cost. I'd love to see an average cost per player analysis over that drop off period. 425-500 is a lot of money for a 20yr old to throw at what's essentially entertainment.

Not to mention our geography adding to the cost with away game drives, and even home games if you're one of the poor saps in the Ottawa region who has to drive 30kms out of town to your home pitch.

How to grow rugby worldwide?Look at the world ranking in July. Teams ranked 1-10 have to play one team from 11-20 (they don't play in a regular competition) away the next year. 11-20 play 21-30 away and so on. Yes, it really is that simple.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a revamp of this before the first season. A few MLR teams have done a rebrand or logo update. Unfortunately they are going to get compared to the WP every step of the way, and they have the advantages of being first in the market, and having done extremely well at media and branding.