To whom is this comment directed? The OP or the PARTY OF 3 that "passed" them even though they were ON A DIFFERENT ROUTE? And the Robins/ Harding squabble is just ONE well publicized example of how your revisionist history of climbing back in the day is complete and utter bull shit. Fairly sure that Beckey's pissed of more than a hand full of climbers as well.

For the reading comprehension impaired I'll quote myself: Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot.

In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen.

-- We may have started slightly off route, but we were most definitely NOT on a different route. Unless you somehow consider a belay set in the middle of a pitch that is perhaps 4 feet wide at the point "a different route". There was no ambiguity here.

For the reading comprehension impaired I'll quote myself: Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot. In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen. -- We may have started slightly off route, but we were most definitely NOT on a different route. Unless you somehow consider a belay set in the middle of a pitch that is perhaps 4 feet wide at the point "a different route". There was no ambiguity here.

Yeah. I know you keep saying that. And it doesn't make anymore sense than the first time you said it. You started on a varient and this slow TEAM OF THREE started on the actual route and passed you as you tried to Bogart their direct line. We get it.

And then you came onto MP to piss and moan about it and get the old guys all riled up to the point that they get all misty eyed and pretend that back in the day shit like this didn't happen.

Hope you're enjoying this. Rick's pacemaker is about to give out because you've got him so upset.

For the reading comprehension impaired I'll quote myself: Due to rope drag, my partner was belaying directly below the crux of P1. There was clearly no where for us to go but to continue on the climb, and was had told the same party were were doing this climb when we encountered them at the parking lot. In order to pass us, they had to climb directly over and around my partner, to the point that they would've stabbed him with their crampons had they fallen. -- We may have started slightly off route, but we were most definitely NOT on a different route. Unless you somehow consider a belay set in the middle of a pitch that is perhaps 4 feet wide at the point "a different route". There was no ambiguity here.

mcChufferton, That wasn't very nice. Actually that name sounds familiar. Wait a minute, I remember you. Your the boy that Richard Simmons brought into Childrens Hospital last year during Pride Fest because there was a GI Joe lodged in your rectum. When we asked Richard why GI Joe was in your rectum he said it was because your Barbie dolls breasts were too big to get past your sphicter. If you were an accomplished pickle smuggler you would have taken Barbie all the way. Keep at it, you'll get there.

mcChufferton, That wasn't very nice. Actually that name sounds familiar. Wait a minute, I remember you. Your the boy that Richard Simmons brought into Childrens Hospital last year during Pride Fest because there was a GI Joe lodged in your rectum. When we asked Richard why GI Joe was in your rectum he said it was because your Barbie dolls breasts were too big to get past your sphicter. If you were an accomplished pickle smuggler you would have taken Barbie all the way. Keep at it, you'll get there. Now thats funny. Beat that.

Accusing Richard Simmons of pedophilia in a bigoted and homophobic attempt at humor is not something I'd care to compete with. But you have fun with that if that's the sort of thing that helps you get it up at least once every six months.

Rick McL wrote:

I taught my kids respect, safety, good sportmanship and comraderie as values to apply in all aspects of their lives, including climbing. It seems to have served them well, as it would you. No bullshit.

Pot...meet kettle.

Nice to know that you're all for respect towards your fellow climbers, unless they happen to be gay. Then you'll insinuate that because they're gay they also like to fuck children with action figures.

In speaking of dangerous fiasco on Alexander's... Who ever took a shit at/on the top of the first pitch is a real asshole! It is smeared down the ice, and stinks! Go take yer shit somewhere else, or dig a hole in the giant mound of snow, and cover it up. You suck. Thank you.

I apologize to those that I offended with my attempt to one up McChufferton. Richard Simmons has helped a lot of people get in shape and that is highly honorable. I respect the man. Pride Fest is a Hell of a party. McChufferton does not put action figures in his backside. Chuff was giving me a pretty hard time and it brought out the worst in me. I was wrong. Is McChufferton man enough to apologize to those that he has offended? Especially me, with what he said about my penis?

Anyway, back to the point. We are not talking about rock climbing where getting past slow parties is as easy as just meandering on a route. This is ice climbing on a narrow route, no work around. I agree with Christian that a party below should give the lead party right of way. McChufferton thinks that if your "fast" you should climb over a party above you regardless of the repercussions. What's the consensus?

Yeah. I know you keep saying that. And it doesn't make anymore sense than the first time you said it. You started on a varient and this slow TEAM OF THREE started on the actual route and passed you as you tried to Bogart their direct line. We get it. And then you came onto MP to piss and moan about it and get the old guys all riled up to the point that they get all misty eyed and pretend that back in the day shit like this didn't happen. Hope you're enjoying this. Rick's pacemaker is about to give out because you've got him so upset.

What the party of 3 did, from Christian's side of the story, was lame. They knew the OP's objective at the parking lot. They still climbed over them and apparently endangered them. That's not good.

I would have confronted the party, and then if they gave me shit, there would have likely been a physical confrontation once we were both on the ground. Granted, this is only from hearing the OP's side of the story. I would love to hear from the party of 3.

I apologize to those that I offended with my attempt to one up McChufferton. Richard Simmons has helped a lot of people get in shape and that is highly honorable. I respect the man. Pride Fest is a Hell of a party. McChufferton does not put action figures in his backside. Chuff was giving me a pretty hard time and it brought out the worst in me. I was wrong. Is McChufferton man enough to apologize to those that he has offended? Especially me, with what he said about my penis? Anyway, back to the point. We are not talking about rock climbing where getting past slow parties is as easy as just meandering on a route. This is ice climbing on a narrow route, no work around. I agree with Christian that a party below should give the lead party right of way. McChufferton thinks that if your "fast" you should climb over a party above you regardless of the repercussions. What's the consensus? Seems appropriate, I say we vote: 1. Respect the party above 2. Climb over the slower group

chuckle*

Ah Rick, damn you. You've left me with nothing to do but apologize or look like a douchebag. Nicely played. Sorry. I'm a douchebag.

In regards to the topic at hand...

My opinion stems from the fact that we're hearing ONE SIDE of the story from someone who was climbing as part of a slow moving team that decided to climb a VARIATION to the line they told the other team of 3 they were going to do.

For all we know the other climbers thought these guys were either choosing to do a different route or perhaps that they were a group of gumbies screwing around on the wrong start to the route they stated they wanted to do. Regardless, they cruised up to the start and saw these other bro's noobin it up other than where they wanted to climb. They obviously had their shit dialed if they passed the OP and they were climbing as a party of 3.

Sounds to me like the OP and his partner were off route or didn't know what they were doing if they had to stop short of the normal belay because of rope drag. Even if they knew what they were doing they had no business dicking around on a slower var. off the normal route when they KNEW FROM THE PARKING LOT that other people were waiting on them.

I don't personally frequent busy crags specifically because of crap like this, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't find it necessary to go on the internet and whine about getting passed because I was too slow.

And Rick, maybe we should just go climbing together and get to the bottom of this issue! I'll let you know if I ever make to your part of the country.

*chuckle* Ah Rick, damn you. You've left me with nothing to do but apologize or look like a douchebag. Nicely played. Sorry. I'm a douchebag. In regards to the topic at hand... My opinion stems from the fact that we're hearing ONE SIDE of the story from someone who was climbing as part of a slow moving team that decided to climb a VARIATION to the line they told the other team of 3 they were going to do. For all we know the other climbers thought these guys were either choosing to do a different route or perhaps that they were a group of gumbies screwing around on the wrong start to the route they stated they wanted to do. Regardless, they cruised up to the start and saw these other bro's noobin it up other than where they wanted to climb. They obviously had their shit dialed if they passed the OP and they were climbing as a party of 3. Sounds to me like the OP and his partner were off route or didn't know what they were doing if they had to stop short of the normal belay because of rope drag. Even if they knew what they were doing they had no business dicking around on a slower var. off the normal route when they KNEW FROM THE PARKING LOT that other people were waiting on them. I don't personally frequent busy crags specifically because of crap like this, but if I did, I certainly wouldn't find it necessary to go on the internet and whine about getting passed because I was too slow. And Rick, maybe we should just go climbing together and get to the bottom of this issue! I'll let you know if I ever make to your part of the country.

OK, since you're articulating this beyond calling me an idiot, I do think it deserves a response. I fully admitted that we made a noob error and mucked up the start. Especially considering that I've done this route twice before (different finishes make it worth doing multiple times).

We had to belay where we did because of this. The other party was able to pass because (by virtue of not mucking up the start) they didn't need to belay terrain before the normal start of p1 that my partner did. We managed to make a 4th class scramble to the start of p1 into insecure m3/4 or so.

This mishap aside, we were moving at roughly the same pace as the other party afterward. So they might have had the impression that we would have held them up by our non-standard belay position and the time we wasted with the messed up start. Had they communicated with us I would've been happy to clear things up. I'm normally a reasonably fast climber.

The fact that they thought we were slow doesn't give them the right to endanger our lives though. Even if we suppose for the sake of argument that I was at a crawl and they were running like Uli Steck, that does not make this OK. If you're stuck behind a slower party (again for the sake of argument) it's reasonable to pass if you can do so safely. It's not reasonable to endanger their safety because you feel entitled.

I think I've been pretty open to intelligent criticism of how we handled this, and I never claimed it was perfect.

I'm not here whining. I'm here bring attention to something I thought was extremely unsafe. Had they passed us on rock without asking, I would've though they were rude douchebags and not given it much more though.

What the party of 3 did, from Christian's side of the story, was lame. They knew the OP's objective at the parking lot. They still climbed over them and apparently endangered them. That's not good. I would have confronted the party, and then if they gave me shit, there would have likely been a physical confrontation once we were both on the ground. Granted, this is only from hearing the OP's side of the story. I would love to hear from the party of 3.

That's amusing and, I thought of escalating things physically, or cloving their rope, or any number other amusing antics. But I doubt that would've helped things. Honestly, the biggest concern was preventing the situation from getting any more dangerous.

I confronted the party about things and they blew me off, so I decided there was nothing else to gain from continuing to communicate with them.