I would say this applies to a lot of different fan bases as long as there are sad people who will use outside sources to give them their own identity. I'm a black metal musician and run into my far share of people who are black metal fans complete with persona but don't really have an interest of identity outside the black metal scene

ModernPrimitive01:I would say this applies to a lot of different fan bases as long as there are sad people who will use outside sources to give them their own identity. I'm a black metal musician and run into my far share of people who are black metal fans complete with persona but don't really have an interest of identity outside the black metal scene

Whereas I like being a fan of a band and usually the scenesters are so up their own asses they make being a fan seem more like a competition than just something you are.

With Phish the music is the star player. There might be a hippie, tour-head scene that goes along with it, but the music still comes first. I don't like calling Phish a "jam band". That label negates their musicianship. What they honestly are, is an astounding live jazz quartet.

Typical lemmings. My favorite band was formed for 37 minutes in an Albanian cabbage processing plant, and broke up without playing a single gig. The drummer had only seen real drums on a View-Master slide, sans actual View-Master, while his family was ethnically cleansed. The auto-sitarist believed major keys were oppressive and minor keys trite. The vocalist took a vow of silence to protest the introduction of seedless huckleberry preserves.Their lunch break collaboration changed not just my life, but all life.

ModernPrimitive01:I would say this applies to a lot of different fan bases as long as there are sad people who will use outside sources to give them their own identity. I'm a black metal musician and run into my far share of people who are black metal fans complete with persona but don't really have an interest of identity outside the black metal scene

Hear hear. I am always at metal shows in austin and I always wear Jeans/Shorts and typical button up striped shirt and Its amazing how few people refuse to talk to me because Im not wearing the metal uniform. I guess it SHOULD make me mad, but I mostly just laugh.

FTFA: Were you intimidated going to your first Gathering? The Juggalo seem seems scary from the outside.

Some people find Juggalos scary? That had never occurred to me. Maybe because I'm an old punk rocker, but I've never seen the Juggalos or ICP to be scary at all. That'd be like being scared of the Muppets.

Rocket To Russia:FTFA: Were you intimidated going to your first Gathering? The Juggalo seem seems scary from the outside.

Some people find Juggalos scary? That had never occurred to me. Maybe because I'm an old punk rocker, but I've never seen the Juggalos or ICP to be scary at all. That'd be like being scared of the Muppets.

Mr. Coffee Nerves:Typical lemmings. My favorite band was formed for 37 minutes in an Albanian cabbage processing plant, and broke up without playing a single gig. The drummer had only seen real drums on a View-Master slide, sans actual View-Master, while his family was ethnically cleansed. The auto-sitarist believed major keys were oppressive and minor keys trite. The vocalist took a vow of silence to protest the introduction of seedless huckleberry preserves.Their lunch break collaboration changed not just my life, but all life.

I doubt *you* ever heard of them, though.

Oh please. My favorite band was a group of undeveloped fetuses. Then they got born and hit the mainstream. Sell outs.

Rocket To Russia:FTFA: Were you intimidated going to your first Gathering? The Juggalo seem seems scary from the outside.

Some people find Juggalos scary? That had never occurred to me. Maybe because I'm an old punk rocker, but I've never seen the Juggalos or ICP to be scary at all. That'd be like being scared of the Muppets.

Well put.

Phish super fans are annoying and tend to smell. I know a few that also went to college and majored in music. It is astonishing how little they know about any genre of music outside of Phish the Jam bands. I always quote PCU around them "Aren't you a music major?" after they didn't know Clapton had been in Cream.

Nemo's Brother:Phish super fans are annoying and tend to smell. I know a few that also went to college and majored in music. It is astonishing how little they know about any genre of music outside of Phish the Jam bands. I always quote PCU around them "Aren't you a music major?" after they didn't know Clapton had been in Cream.

My roommate during my first semester at college was a total Phishhead douche. He had stacks of Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, and Pink Floyd CDs...but what did he play 90% of the time? PHISH, PHISH, AND MORE GODDAMN PHISH. Between that, and him stumbling in drunk at 3 AM and puking all over my side of the room, I wanted to suffocate him with a pillow while he slept. Thankfully, he didn't make it past the 2nd semester due to him setting the whole 3rd floor of the dorm on fire (long story) and I ended up getting a whole dorm room to myself.

styckx:The real scientific study would be the STD destiny of 100 square feet of fan base from each sub culture and compare them. I'll go out on a sturdy limb and say that's where Juggalos really stand out.

Mr. Coffee Nerves:Typical lemmings. My favorite band was formed for 37 minutes in an Albanian cabbage processing plant, and broke up without playing a single gig. The drummer had only seen real drums on a View-Master slide, sans actual View-Master, while his family was ethnically cleansed. The auto-sitarist believed major keys were oppressive and minor keys trite. The vocalist took a vow of silence to protest the introduction of seedless huckleberry preserves.Their lunch break collaboration changed not just my life, but all life.

I doubt *you* ever heard of them, though.

Please, ninja

My favorite band is so amazing they don't even exist. No one has heard them

Cuthbert Allgood:Mr. Coffee Nerves: Typical lemmings. My favorite band was formed for 37 minutes in an Albanian cabbage processing plant, and broke up without playing a single gig. The drummer had only seen real drums on a View-Master slide, sans actual View-Master, while his family was ethnically cleansed. The auto-sitarist believed major keys were oppressive and minor keys trite. The vocalist took a vow of silence to protest the introduction of seedless huckleberry preserves.Their lunch break collaboration changed not just my life, but all life.

I doubt *you* ever heard of them, though.

Please, ninja

My favorite band is so amazing they don't even exist. No one has heard them

I don't even like my favorite band, because if I liked them, they would be too mainstream for me to like.

FuryOfFirestorm:Nemo's Brother: Phish super fans are annoying and tend to smell. I know a few that also went to college and majored in music. It is astonishing how little they know about any genre of music outside of Phish the Jam bands. I always quote PCU around them "Aren't you a music major?" after they didn't know Clapton had been in Cream.

My roommate during my first semester at college was a total Phishhead douche. He had stacks of Led Zeppelin, Jimi Hendrix, and Pink Floyd CDs...but what did he play 90% of the time? PHISH, PHISH, AND MORE GODDAMN PHISH. Between that, and him stumbling in drunk at 3 AM and puking all over my side of the room, I wanted to suffocate him with a pillow while he slept. Thankfully, he didn't make it past the 2nd semester due to him setting the whole 3rd floor of the dorm on fire (long story) and I ended up getting a whole dorm room to myself.

I worked at a worker-owned co-op restaurant (lots of hippies). Working in the kitchen, we'd take turns playing a CD. There was always one asshole hippy who would throw in a 2 1/2 hour Phish live show. farkers.

I thought it was a cool idea for a book. Two bands that for som reason people feel fine condeming from places of total ignorance. Some music takes a bit of time to understand. It was cool to see he was able to set aside his pre-conceived biases and become available to new music.

LewDux:Rocket To Russia: FTFA: Were you intimidated going to your first Gathering? The Juggalo seem seems scary from the outside.

Some people find Juggalos scary? That had never occurred to me. Maybe because I'm an old punk rocker, but I've never seen the Juggalos or ICP to be scary at all. That'd be like being scared of the Muppets.

Different = scary. Welcome to Earth

See, that's why I chose the Muppets as an example. They are different, they aren't even human. But to find them scary would be absurd! I've been around some REALLY scary scenes, that's why Juggalos don't even register on the scale.

Rocket To Russia:LewDux: Rocket To Russia: FTFA: Were you intimidated going to your first Gathering? The Juggalo seem seems scary from the outside.

Some people find Juggalos scary? That had never occurred to me. Maybe because I'm an old punk rocker, but I've never seen the Juggalos or ICP to be scary at all. That'd be like being scared of the Muppets.

Different = scary. Welcome to Earth

See, that's why I chose the Muppets as an example. They are different, they aren't even human. But to find them scary would be absurd! I've been around some REALLY scary scenes, that's why Juggalos don't even register on the scale.

I've been a Phish fan since 2002, I got in to them during their first hiatus. They're really about 5 bands in one: a classic rock band; a bunch of Zappa heads; reggae fans; jazz players and prog rock fans. I've been to over 500 concerts of all styles and the Phish show at the Gorge on 8/7/09 is easily in my Top 10 Ever. If you're not in to guitar solos and jamming, they won't be for you, but if you are, they can be incredible. I don't go to Madonna shows because I don't like the music, why would anyone go to something they know they're not going to like and then biatch about it afterwards?

As for the fans, sure, there's the part that's just burnout old Deadheads with nothing better to do, and the teenagers who come to the shows because they know they can score cheap weed and beer in the lot, but what blows me away at the shows is how intently the audiences listen. You can *feel* the energy go in a loop from the band to audience back to the band.

The book sounds interesting though I do quibble with this:

If you go to a Phish show expecting them to play four-minute songs with really strong melodies, you're probably going to be disappointed.

They DO have four-minute songs with really strong melodies, but that's not all they play, there's 25 minute space jams mixed in as well, along with tightly composed prog rock stuff and great covers like TV on the Radio's The Golden Age and so on.

Henry Holland:I've been a Phish fan since 2002, I got in to them during their first hiatus. They're really about 5 bands in one: a classic rock band; a bunch of Zappa heads; reggae fans; jazz players and prog rock fans. I've been to over 500 concerts of all styles and the Phish show at the Gorge on 8/7/09 is easily in my Top 10 Ever. If you're not in to guitar solos and jamming, they won't be for you, but if you are, they can be incredible. I don't go to Madonna shows because I don't like the music, why would anyone go to something they know they're not going to like and then biatch about it afterwards?

As for the fans, sure, there's the part that's just burnout old Deadheads with nothing better to do, and the teenagers who come to the shows because they know they can score cheap weed and beer in the lot, but what blows me away at the shows is how intently the audiences listen. You can *feel* the energy go in a loop from the band to audience back to the band.

The book sounds interesting though I do quibble with this:

If you go to a Phish show expecting them to play four-minute songs with really strong melodies, you're probably going to be disappointed.

They DO have four-minute songs with really strong melodies, but that's not all they play, there's 25 minute space jams mixed in as well, along with tightly composed prog rock stuff and great covers like TV on the Radio's The Golden Age and so on.

PHISH also suffered a bit of an identity crisis early in when they were erroneously categorized as a Grateful Dead cover band. That and the challenging length of some of the material caused it to become fashionable to dislike them.

Mobius strip of human stupidity:PHISH also suffered a bit of an identity crisis early in when they were erroneously categorized as a Grateful Dead cover band. That and the challenging length of some of the material caused it to become fashionable to dislike them.

There's a Dead vibe in some of their songs, but they mainly took the business model from them: don't rely on radio and MTV > tour constantly to build the fan base.

If you look at Phish's setlists in the early 90's, apart from the songs that were written that way (Divided Sky, You Enjoy Myself), they didn't stretch out much at all. Of course, that changed in 1994/95 to the point where any song now can be a launching pad for improv. Even I find things like the 59-minute Runaway Jim or the 40 minute+ Tweezers to be a bit of a trial.

Henry Holland:There's a Dead vibe in some of their songs, but they mainly took the business model from them: don't rely on radio and MTV > tour constantly to build the fan base.

If you look at Phish's setlists in the early 90's, apart from the songs that were written that way (Divided Sky, You Enjoy Myself), they didn't stretch out much at all. Of course, that changed in 1994/95 to the point where any song now can be a launching pad for improv. Even I find things like the 59-minute Runaway Jim or the 40 minute+ Tweezers to be a bit of a trial.

Honest question. Would you be interested in a staged Gamehenge? Meaning them playing the full score with a fairly elaborate physical production around the guys.