would it be possible to go there for a spar without joining up or anything (casual class maybe)? if i tell them i do BJJ, will i get lectured about how grappling doesn't work in the street? i'm not prepared to join up, but i'd be quite happy to see what the style is like in a friendly sparring match, in or outside the school.

Good to have a person with so much personal experience with the topic at hand around.

I see your point, but I have a slight problem with the logic behind it, regarding the "rock solid" and "world class" descriptions of your former instructor...

See, unless you trained anywhere else for the "best part of the last 25 years", it seems to me that YOU have nothing to compare Gary's teaching to.

Many guys on here, myself and This is Fake included, trained or still train in different martial arts, including kung fu styles. We've experienced different systems and approaches to training.

If you didn't, you are pulling stuff out of your back parts when criticising us.

Also, maybe you're above it, but there's a possibility of you being one of those guys, who are unable to see/realise that they've been lead around by their noses for the best part of their lives, at least MA-wise.

It is a painful experience for each and every one - and many, if not most people here on Bullshido had to go through this - to say:

"I've been mislead and trained not in a way that would have been good for me. I am not an invincible kung fu warrior nor would I ever become one in a hundred years doing what I was doing and paying the money I've paid."

Maybe you're different. Please elaborate more on your MA experiences outside of Gary's school and what you think about my thoughts.

Read this post carefully and understand the issue. I spent 15 years in the same art and until I started cross-training, I had no clue what it was lacking. Researching also showed me what was "solid" but, at the same time, showed me what was 100% fabricated IMO.

Sorry, I don't care what you saw or witnessed the Gold Sash is BS in the way it was originally described.

All the attacks in this thread from the arm chair commandos have been entertaining to say the least. Special mention to This Is Fake.

It is Fake first, second learn the context of an attack. Third, can you provide evidence?

Saying this is solid "cause I said so," is adding nothing to the thread. A fake art taught solidly is still a fake art. Just like the people who plagiarize books and they become bestsellers, they still fall from grace and lose their jobs regardless of how well the book was written.

Many people have created arts that work without making up stories.
Yes, this will be moved to YMAS because, you have repeated everything already expressed in the thread with, the addition of your 25 years of training.

The easiest way to shut me up or prove me wrong is to show a confirmed lineage chart of confirmed teachers forwhat Gary teaches. Anecdotes of your 25 years of training just means you spent a ton of time in this questionable art.

Yep,going out there to play sounds like fun.I wouldn't tell 'em you currently train 3 different " sport " styles though Danno,& I sure wouldn't mention just where you train either.When you say " light sparring " do you mean Gary Martins way or Concords ?.Either way it'd be a hoot.
I read the earlier stuff & I get the impression that those guys don't play well with others though,& may get pissed when they realise they've been punked.:5yinyang:

I have aslo trained with Gary. I found him to be a good coach and great conditioning. I left due to a leg injury. After I recovered I started doing bjj and have various other styles. Fact is Gary's Kung fu is a modernised version of a traditional art nothing more. If your after a class for fitness and self defence knowledge then go there but prepare to pay through the nose. Gary also would make a great conditioning coach for mma but not his training style. I competed in a tournment in continious sparring and got smashed, showed to me that his style aint much good for sparring anyone who kickbox really well maybe unless your a black belt upwards which would take about 2-3 years to achive.
Anyhow it aint the perfect system but a good one
If you want a really good figthing coach try John B Will.

Life stories but no Answers Gray Martin Kung Fu

Hi Guys,

I like the few others that have posted also trained with Gary. I can pretty much agree with everything that fuzzybear posted, so i wont repeat it.

I trained from 2000 to 2004 and then had time off before going back in 2006 until late last year where i decide to call it a day. The reason i stopped is because of the classes starting at 8pm and the 3 nights per week no excuses training regime.

I notice allot of criticism towards the school. All i can say is you should take the time to go check it out and only make your judgments then. Gary trains his students extremely hard and expects nothing less than 110% from every training session.

The arts he teaches although are traditional have been modified to suit real life situations. The school steers away from any type of ring fighting applications and point scoring strikes as these are not going to do you any good on the street. Gary is also a big believer of keeping the art sacred and shrouded in secrecy; hence the closed door policy for some classes and advanced classes etc

During my time training, there were some occasions when students from other schools would take part in a training session with the school. On all occasions the students were spent after the 30 min conditioning before the class even started.

I must say that a big disappointment in training with the school is that allot of the forms and more traditional aspects of the arts are not taught until well into a students training career. (4 years +) I believe this is because Gary is not willing to share the true art for those who are not prepared to 'Live' the art and make it a way of life. Unfortunately for most of us with families and careers it is not entirely possible.

The big advantages of the school and the thing i enjoyed most was the 'internal' classes conducted every second friday after class. In these class i learnt, meditation, self hypnosis, herbs, accupressure, massage, chi development, traditional forms, jings, chin na and the list goes on.

I also cannot validate the lineage for Gary, and i guess it was always taken for granted.

I want to finish off with saying that i have been looking for a school recently with more flexible training conditions and have visited many schools in the sydney area and not one single school has come even close to the intensity of training that i experienced whilst at Garys school.

If anyone knows and can recommend a school in the city or close by please let me know.

I've read your post and have some questions for you. Your answers could clarify a lot for the both of us, if you'd care to answer them.

The first one would be:
have you trained in any other martial art in your life, if yes, in which one, where, under whom, for how long?

Here you just summarized the everliving stereotype of sport vs. street... Go on and read about the debate in a billion of threads on Bullshido, there's nothing new in your words, just apparent lack of experience with "ring fighting applications":

Originally Posted by LuvKungFu

The arts he teaches although are traditional have been modified to suit real life situations. The school steers away from any type of ring fighting applications and point scoring strikes as these are not going to do you any good on the street. Gary is also a big believer of keeping the art sacred and shrouded in secrecy; hence the closed door policy for some classes and advanced classes etc

During my time training, there were some occasions when students from other schools would take part in a training session with the school. On all occasions the students were spent after the 30 min conditioning before the class even started.

Who were these students, from what other schools? What did they study, for how long? What was the conditioning like, can you give us a detailed description?

The big advantages of the school and the thing i enjoyed most was the 'internal' classes conducted every second friday after class. In these class i learnt, meditation, self hypnosis, herbs, accupressure, massage, chi development, traditional forms, jings, chin na and the list goes on.

You learned all these when you admit you didn't have time to attend the 3 weekly trainings? How much time did you spend learning all these things and how can you assess the quality of what you've been taught? Have you consulted your knowledge with professionals? What exactly is "chi development"?

I.. ...have visited many schools in the sydney area and not one single school has come even close to the intensity of training that i experienced whilst at Garys school

How many and what MA schools did you visit? Did you take part in the training or just sat out and watched?

Thank you for your honest answers.

CLICK & WATCH: I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!
"Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce." - by Vorpal

1. I trained in Judo when i was a teenager at a local youth club. My instructor was brown belt from memory. I competed in a few tournaments over the year or so that i trained but the art just wasn't for me.
After Judo i gave wrestling a go, but once again not for me.

2. I cant recall who the students were and from what particular school, but i do know on one occasion it was two students from a Kung Fu school and on another occasion students from a Kick Boxing school. Both of the schools instructors were known to Gary and i believe they are friends or colleagues of some sort.

3. Yes i learned all those items i stated, but due to changes in circumstances, whether it be work or personal issues it all got too much.
Training consisted of 3 nights per week, 90 mins per session + an additional 60-90 mins for internal class every second week after class + weapons training for about 30 mins once a week after class.
Most students would arrive early to class and practice; along with this all students were encouraged to perform internal exercises like tai chi, qigong etc every day, which i did and continue to do to this day.
Chi represents vital energy, the life force. By practising Tai Chi, Qigong and the internal art forms we develop the chi in our body which flows through 12 bilateral meridians and passes through major organs, this intern provides health, wellbeing and internal energy which is applied to strikes.

4. I have visited 6 schools in the past 8 weeks from boxing to karate and kung fu. I trained as a guest/trial for one session and also hung around and watched the advanced students train where the opportunity arose. I know what i am looking for and the energy in 5 out of the 6 schools just didn't feel right. I have kept an open mind the during the whole process.
I have narrowed it down it to a Wing Chun school which has numerous training sessions throughout the day and evenings which suites me. The school has been around for over 25 years, the instructor is reputable and has a direct lineage and the intensity of the training sessions is what i am looking for.
I had my first trial session this evening and will give it another go tomorrow, after which i will probably join up and start a new journey in the art of Wing Chun, which if you asked me 8 years ago to do would have been inconceivable but i am keeping an open mind and cant wait for the new challenge.

I train Brazilian Jiu Jitsu since October 2008. I am a white belt, slowly progressing and competing whenever I can.

I am a former instructor of Wing Tsun kung fu in Hungary, EEWTO.

I strongly believe you should pay a visit to a judo, BJJ, Muay Thai or boxing gym and try at least a single lesson. I am absolutely certain the intensity will meet your expectations.

I wish you good luck, it would be great if you'd report back to us.

CLICK & WATCH: I got BULLSHIDO ON TV!!!
"Bruce Lee sucks because I slammed my nuts with nunchucks trying to do that stupid **** back in the day. I still managed to have two kids. I forgive you Bruce." - by Vorpal

People who leave the school often blame the school for them not being able to cut it.

I have trained with Gary from a long time and seen the school grow from 40 students to over 400.

If the school was fake there would not be so many students.

asides from truely learning how to defend myself there are lots of other things taught as mentioned in an earlier post.

What has not been mentioned is the positive atmosphere in the school, everyone is happy and friendly. There has been a number of marrages over the years and countless friendships created.

The 2 nights per week minimum is to protect us the students, an infrequent trainer is more likely to injure someone else with a misjudged strike. And students are not harrassed or demoted about missing 1 night it is only repeat offenders only training 1 night a week or less that are spoken to and then demoted temporarly if their training does not improve.

Another thing not previously mentioned, the part of training on how to avoid fights. I have not had to use the fighting skills.

Many of the skills learnt have helped to improve my life, I am not the only one there are countless stories from other studends about how things are just going better now.

This martial art is biomechanically correct to ensure that students are not injuring their bodies but extending the fitness well into later years.

It is an internal art which develops chi, and we are taught Tai chi froms (moving meditation), but as mentioned by others there is a high level of fitness and toughness associated with the school. The school teaches balance hard and tough when necessary but also gentle and relaxed.

I was previously involved in the instructing team for the first class and the previously mentioned special treatment of free drinks and no training fees is recognition for the time put in by the instructing team.
And yes Gary still speaks to me even though I am not longer involded in helping instruct the first class.

When I first starting in the instructing team I went to every school i could find within a half hour drive of Bankstown (including the city).
I did not find one other school that I believed taught people how to defend themselves.
How is a 50 kG female going to defend herself against a 130kg+ man? arm locks, grappling or strikes designed to earn points in a competition, REALLY ??
There were schools where the instructor was a teanager!! These are the McDonalds franchise schools with some so called big name up on the wall with fancy sounding lineage.

I have seen the lineage of our school, scrolls that are kept in a secure place. Due to politics Kung fu was not able to be tought like it is today to large groups, it was passed from one master to a select number of students. We have a linage that is not questioned by long time students we know what we are learning works. The linage was explained as part of the tradition not for some BS ego boosting thing for students to go around big noteing themselves.

I have not done the rounds recently to see the new generation of MMA schools as I believe it would be wasting my time as it is a great sport to watch on TV when it is someone else leaking blood everywhere but I was very concerned for a friend of mine who said his son is actively into it as he is regularly injured hence unable to fight even though he wins much more than he looses!
How do you defend you girlfriend / mother / harley if your injured and can not fight ?
Plus what are the long term effects on your body?

Do yourselves a favour come along and experience the friendly atmosphere, it really is like something out of a movie when you see so many people training in one place. The worst injuries are to overinflated egos that leave somewhat deflated.

The address is on the website or just come to Deadman Ave Moorebank Mondays Wednesdays or Fridays its not hard to see where we are, start time is 6.30 but if you get there a bit earlier you might have the chance to talk to Gary. I will be there I think there is only 1 Ross, I'm the grey belt (faded black LOL) come and say hello.