82 comments:

It is horrifying indeed, but not necessarily surprising. Studies suggest that people are less likely to intervene if there are many others around, as each person assumes--or can justify his or her own failure to act by assuming--that someone else will do something.

Also, people are afraid of repercussions to them personally if they get involved; they don't want to get dragged into a possibly long involvement with the legal system, or have to testify at a trial; or they know some of the people involved and don't want to be seen as snitches; or they may tell themselves the victim is a willful participant; etc.

Not very pretty or justifiable reasons at all to do nothing at all, even calling 911, to stop such a horrible act from occurring. But then, humans in many ways aren't pretty.

It used to be a fairly nice city about 25 years ago before the liberals emphasis on diversity over common sense and stupid feel good social policies. So did Oakland, Berkely and a whole host of previously beautiful California East Bay cities occupied by working families. They are now nothing but public works projects with Section 8 housing, rampant with gangs, illegal aliens, crime, overworked inadequate police and crumbling infrastructure.

I wouldn't drive through those areas on a bet. The best thing that could happen would be to put a big fence around the area and let them all kill each other.

You're right. Liberal doctrine in criminal law enforcement and punishment have done such good over the years that only the most moronic would think otherwise.

I mean I think its absolutely wonderful that we have sanctuary cities that illegals can live in without fear and, and, should they be caught committing a crime, real progressive cities like SF won't turn them over to the Feds to be deported!

Doesn't surprise me. You have to actively cultivate the moral 'good' in people for it to 'kick in' in emergency situations. There used to be a host of institutions that are diminished. There is a PC veneer, but that's icing on the cake, a fussy 16th C dance at a French court. It's not going to stand up to something root level like this.

At one point this would have shocked me, but no longer. Now I'm surprised and grateful when I see the opposite.

Oddly, it was years of reading online conversations that set me straight. When you become privy to what used to be essentially private thoughts, it's hard to be shocked. Many many people are deeply barbaric and proud of it.

No; harboring the desire that a whole city or section of a city be walled off and wishing the residents therein kill each other off shows he has no better impulses than young men who would commit a gang rape. The young men acted on their impulses, and so are criminals; Dust Bunny Queen merely harbors equally savage impulses and has not acted on them and so is not a criminal. This aside, there is no difference in their characters.

Richmond is dangerous and gang-ridden. Sensible people would be reluctant to intervene -- but that shouldn't prevent an anonymous tip, which the police eventually received.

First, an AP article on California crime last year:

The [FBI] report shows that Richmond topped the state with the highest per-capita homicide rate of cities with at least 100,000 people. Richmond had 47 homicides in 2007 — the most in this decade.

Second, while I know victim-blaming is the cardinal sin of feminism, by allowing herself to get drunk in an alley with thugs in the murder capital of California, the victim did not take sufficient care for her own safety:

[The girl left the dance shortly before 9:30] Police believe she was waiting for her father to pick her up outside the school at 1250 23rd St., in the northern flatlands of Richmond near Doctors Medical Center. Before he got there, however, a friend from school invited the girl to join a group of people hanging out and drinking, Gagan said.

The girl drank a large amount of alcohol before she was sexually assaulted by members of the group, police said.

Around 11 p.m., the dance let out. Marin Trujillo, a spokesman for the West Contra Costa Unified School District, said the four Richmond police officers and three school administrators who supervised the event had helped to clear the campus.

The attack, however, was happening in an out-of-the way alley just north of campus, police said. In the dark, no one saw a thing.

No; harboring the desire that a whole city or section of a city be walled off and wishing the residents therein kill each other off shows he has no better impulses than young men who would commit a gang rape.

No, it shows a desire that they keep it isolated among themselves if they can't live like civilized people. If the residents are so cowed that they can't make a simple 911 call then I wouldn't want them in my community anymore than the gang rapists.

I lived there for 13 years and worked 2 blocks from this school. I homeschooled my kids and later moved to a safer part of the bay area, but that safer part is being transformed too.

My daughter's best friend was gang-raped at a party after a high school football game. But it didn't make the paper because she didn't need hospitalization and her parents didn't go to the police because they didn't want to "ruin the boys' lives." That's when I stopped being a liberal.

I suppose there is some decent rap out there somewhere. Not that I've heard any, but I don't listen to much current stuff. I just hear what my kids bring home from school...and then I look up the lyrics.

Then you weren't really a liberal, and I don't see what one thing has to do with another. "Liberals" want safe streets as much as anyone, and we also want criminals punished. The fault here lies with the parents of the victim of the gang rape, for not reporting these boys to the police. I suspect their not doing so had as much or more to do with their wanting to protect the reputation of their daughter and themselves--or to keep her from dragged through a grueling public experience by publicly accusing--as with not wanting to ruin the boys' reputations. Or perhaps they were frightened.

"Liberals" want safe streets as much as anyone, and we also want criminals punished.

LOL!

I'm sorry. I hear that a lot from liberals and then I recall what happens when law enforcement actually tries to, you know, enforce the law and we start hearing about police brutality, racism, racial profiling, military sound cannons.

"Liberals" want safe streets as much as anyone, and we also want criminals punished.

No you don't. You only want those things in 'theory'. When real solutions are proposed, like deporting criminal illegals or actually enforcing the laws, you all just stamp your tiny little feet and throw tantrums and let the lawlessness continue.

In fact you actually aid and abet the lawlessness through the stupidity of liberal policies of financially subsidizing the criminal class......just like in Richmond.

"I recall what happens when law enforcement actually tries to, you know, enforce the law and we start hearing about police brutality, racism, racial profiling, military sound cannons."

Brutalizing suspects, stopping persons for ad hoc questioning merely because they're not white, or bringing military weapons to bear on Americans exercising their right to protest has nothing to do with "enforcing the laws," and everything to do with violating our civil rights. Such behavior is the sharp end of the stick of the "government intrusion into our lives" that so-called conservatives are always wetting their pants about.

Dust Bunny Queen merely harbors equally savage impulses and has not acted on them and so is not a criminal. This aside, there is no difference in their characters.

Even granting your preposterous equivalency between rape and fences, I dare say that the ability to control one's impulses is a rather significant difference in their characters. It is the difference between civilisation and savagery itself.

Specifics, please. Despite all the words in that sentence, it doesn't really say anything.

You mean you support the deportation of illegals who have committed crimes (despite the obvious one of being here illegally)? Cause I keep hearing how doing that 'breaks up families' (which ignores the obvious that they can deport the rest of the family too).

Brutalizing suspects, stopping persons for ad hoc questioning merely because they're not white, or bringing military weapons to bear on Americans exercising their right to protest has nothing to do with "enforcing the laws," and everything to do with violating our civil rights.

You know it’s funny because I have never once been brutalized, ad hoc questioned or had military weapons brought to bear on me by the po-lice. Probably because I live in a community where 15 year old girls are not gang raped while the rest of the ‘community’ stands around to watch, have gangland shootings on a daily basis or where cops just say fuck it and don’t even patrol cause it isn’t worth it. Also my idea of protesting doesn’t involve wearing a mask and flinging rocks and molotov cocktails through a Starbucks window. I guess I’m boring that way.

I'm not equating those two things; I'm equating rape and the desire for an entire population to kill each other to death, (sic).

One may act on one's brutal instincts or not; however, to hold and express a desire for an entire population to be exterminated reveals a character lacking in any moral authority to condemn the savage acts of others.

I deplore the acts of the rapists in this case, and they should be prosecuted and punished if convicted, but I have no desire to see the entire population of the area where this crime took place be killed. Does this mean I have a better character than Dust Bunny Queen?

By saying that one must have "moral authority" to condemn a savage act, Cook, you ARE doing exactly what people here have accused liberals of... enabling and promoting crime and victimization.

There is no prerequisite. None. There can not be. By setting yourself up as moral arbiter and demanding that others first have moral authority, you're placing *that* above the need to prevent crimes and change cultures.

Because the horror of this rape and of other violent and systemic crimes is not relative to the persons making those observations. They are objectively evil things and the most evil person in the world can condemn them and the nature of the crime itself remains constant.

Many things seem more important to you than providing safe neighborhoods. The moral authority of those condemning the violence is one. The supremacy of preventing and condemning police excess is another. MORE important than the fact this girl was raped is that no young man is roughed up or falsely accused... if the police can't enforce the law in a pristine way, then that poor girl is just f*cked. Isn't she.

Another way that "liberals" contribute to this lawless culture is the pure lie that girls should not be expected to curb their own behavior in the interest of their own safety. Well, that's just FINE in the wealthy neighborhoods of privilege, but even in those neighborhoods girls should always buddy up. But our culture condemns the precautions and condemns the old-fashioned idea that "good girls" behave in various circumspect ways... as if there was never an actual *reason* for those oppressive cultural rules but that men like to oppress women for the hell of it. And the young *men* are left just as much out there without guidelines because traditional *protective* male roles are denigrated as oppressive and overbearing and young men in the barrio have to get their macho on without a positive way to express it.

Failing to recognize the harm and evil in various feel-good, enlightened, progressive cultural meddling, does not mean that the harm and evil does not exist.

Thanks for the vote of confidence Allen, but I have called 911 when I heard disturbing shouts coming from an apartment in my building, not knowing whether it was merely an argument or something more serious taking place. By the sound of the distressed shouts, I had reason to believe something more serious than simply an argument could be taking place.

I never heard any more about the incident, and was never contacted by the police after the fact.

When laws are not enforced, then there is misery among the people. When laws are enforced, yhen the people rejoice. That is true no matter what the liberals excuse of the day is for letting people break whatever laws they don't approve of.

It's like people moaning over the problem with Somali refugees and terrorism when the only reason the problem exists is soft-headed liberals imported the problem into America.

This is a "rape dialogue" we would never be having but for Mexico's success in dumping their unwanted and highly criminal underclass garbage into America.

===============And not just liberals, but Open Borders Republicans (Bush, McCainwho see illegal immigration, over generous legal immigration of the unskilled, and H-1B visas for the skilled as great ways to depress workers wages and profit their wealthy donors bottom lines at the businesses they own.

"Don't even have to finish the sentence. You have revealed that you believe in Thought Crime. The creators of Political Correctness would be proud."

Well, of course you finished the sentence. There's no need to play coy.

Again you reveal your poor grasp of basic reality. That I think someone's thoughts may be deplorable does not mean I think he or she should be punished for those thoughts, as long as they remain thoughts. I haven't called for Dust Bunny Queen to be tarred and feathered, or tased.

However, I happily scorn the assumed moral superiority of someone who has expressed a desire to see a whole population exterminate itself, a population comprised of law-abiding citizens as well as law-breakers...as with any population anywhere on earth.

We are all capable of feeling anger or hostility toward others, even to wishing them ill, but healthy people recognize such thoughts as part of our human failings, and we feel chastened or even ashamed of such feelings, or at least we're conscious they don't reflect the better part of our nature. We do not boast of such feelings eagerly. A person who relishes such thoughts of violence against others fails Christ's "mote in the eye" test.

c-4 said: And not just liberals, but Open Borders Republicans (Bush, McCainwho see illegal immigration, over generous legal immigration of the unskilled, and H-1B visas for the skilled as great ways to depress workers wages and profit their wealthy donors bottom lines at the businesses they own.

Agreed 100%. This was one of the main reasons conservatives were disgusted with Bush, along with excessive spending, and why we could barely hold our noses to vote against Obama and punch the card next to McCain's name.

I'm equating rape and the desire for an entire population to kill each other to death, (sic).

I have no idea what the (sic) is all about in your sentence. The desire is, as Hoosier stated, that this criminal element that pervades this geographic area, be isolated from the rest of society. If they proceed to kill each other...oh well. Since liberals refuse to deal with the problem and actually encourage it, I suggest that the 'people' there deal with it themselves and take responsibility for their own safety.

As I said. You couldn't pay me to go anywhere near that area.

Nice that you can equate an actual crime where a young woman was brutalized for hours and a thought that you don't agree with as being the same thing. Shows just exactly why the cities, morality and society is crumbling into evil and anarchy under the oh so benevolent watchful eye of liberalism.

"We do not boast of such feelings eagerly. A person who relishes such thoughts of violence against others fails Christ's "mote in the eye" test."

And you lecturing other people about morality doesn't?

And in any case, lest I intrude on your moral superiority, relishing the thought of evil getting it's comeuppance is not, and never will be, equivalent to raping a girl or knowing of the event in progress and choosing not to risk personal injury to stop it.

DBQ - People have choices. To choose to turn a blind eye to evil and not to act is also a choice.

Part of it is people that want to act - but honestly recognize their is just so much capacity to personally react to, or even have genuine (vs. rhetorical) feelings of compassion for black thugs killing thugs, bystanders killed by black thugs in "no snitch" neighborhoods they run free in, and a 15-year old spawn of illegals raped by other illegals when the whole drama should have never had any of the parties or their parents admitted to the US anyways...

Does anyone really give enough of a darn about the "Noble Darfurans" to personally write a check to them or risk their life.

No, but people are supposed to deeply "care" about the troubled Congolese, the Noble Darfurans, the Bush-Neocon announced "democracy-loving freedom fighters" of Iraq now still blowing one another up...and the premise we need to suffer another Vietnam to "free women of their Burquas, send them to school, and bring democracy and modernity to Afghanistan.........

We are supposed to stand up and say we need to be in 10-12 wars right now - hopefully burning up other American's money and lives not their own....to save "noble grateful people like the Iraqis and Afghanistanis 8 years ago and still counting???

(sic) means that the indicated word or passage is to be seen as intended...it is not a mistake. Typically, it is used when quoting someone else where an error in spelling or syntax has been made, and is intended to show the quote is presented as is...the mistake is in the original quote.

I was poking a little fun at myself, by saying "killing each other to death. (sic)" I was conveying my awareness that the passage was, if not actually incorrect--which it may be, I don't know--certainly a redundancy.

"Nice that you can equate an actual crime where a young woman was brutalized for hours and a thought that you don't agree with as being the same thing"

Which of course you know I didn't do. I was equating your contempt for other human beings with that of the rapists.

"...relishing the thought of evil getting it's comeuppance...."

Which of course is not what Dust Bunny Queen said. She(?) said, "Richmond California is a sewer full of human garbage...(it) is now nothing but public works projects with Section 8 housing, rampant with gangs, illegal aliens, crime, overworked inadequate police and crumbling infrastructure...The best thing that could happen would be to put a big fence around the area and let them all kill each other."

Later, she said, "The law abiding citizens can move away and leave the criminals in their own garbage."

Most people who live in these blighted areas have few or no choices and are typically trapped there by economic circumstances. They are more victimized by the predators in their midst than the middle-class residents who live elsewhere in the same cities. Even many young gang members feel they have no choice but to join a gang for their own protection. Either they will be victimized by "enemy" gangs or by the gangs whom they refuse to join. How can she presume to know who these people are or what conditions hobble their lives? Her comment betrays wholesale, undiscriminating contempt for all the residents there.

"How can she presume to know who these people are or what conditions hobble their lives?"

How can you?

And what have you done about it other than encouraging the policies that produce the situation, excusing the human beings who have been taught to accept the situation, and sitting on your backside in a comfy chair?

If nothing else, DBQ actually gives them more credit for being moral human beings than you do because she doesn't *excuse* them from being moral human beings.

Most people who live in these blighted areas have few or no choices and are typically trapped there by economic circumstances

Bull. Everyone has choices. Economic circumstances may be hard, but NO one is trapped like a fly on flypaper. If times are hard or things are terrible where you are.....move.

'Supposedly' we are now in the middle of the latest Great Depression. I suggest the people who want a better life than to be surrounded by gang bangers, criminals and other scum, do a "Grapes of Wrath" and move. After all, this is how the illegals who are causing much of this horror got there. The illegals 'moved' right in on formerly nice towns that were built up by other people who moved from the Dust Bowl and other places.

The other choice of the law abiding citizens is to go ahead and enforce the laws themselves. Since you have put handcuffs on the police this may be their only choice if they want to live like human beings.

The choice that the law abiding citizenry seem to have taken...so far...is to close their eyes and wish it all away. How's that working for Richmond?

vw: antax

Taxing the industrious ant to death while the indolent grasshoppers rape and pillage in Richmond.

I think that people have moral choices to make and that they must make them. People are responsible for their OWN lives and responsible for the consequences of their actions and the choices they make or don't make.

You on the other hand want to excuse the people as being unable or inadequate. They are all victims in your eyes and therefore not responsible for anything. Victims of the police as well, according to you. Because you view the people as helpless, subordinates to the State, you excuse them and enable them......and cripple them.

""The best thing that could happen would be to put a big fence around the area and let them all kill each other."

And so you show you are as bestial as the young men who committed this crime. (And I love how you try to claim this is the liberals' fault!)"

-- DBQ and RC

In a manner of speaking, we did this. We were renovating a big Section 8 apartment building and had to relocate tenants while their apartments were refreshed and the infestations fumigated. We put many of our worst in a neighboring apartment complex where I had rented a block of units. In one dramatic night, 1 got pistol-whipped, 1 got beaten chivalrously, 1 got regularly beaten, 2 got laid, 1 got busted for crack (but it wasn't hers, of course, just mysteriously appeared on her bed), and 1 imported an armed gang of his homeys in a futile effort to gratify himself with revenge.

Based on that night I evicted 3 and completed a pending eviction on 1. During the meetings which HUD requires if they request, one of the tenants said accusingly, "You just put us all over there because you thought we'd get into trouble." I did not smile, but contemplated her for a while in silence. Their complete social breakdown was my fault for housing them near their friends.

"About the crack found on your bed after a lawful search...."

---------------------------

"When laws are not enforced, then there is misery among the people. When laws are enforced, yhen the people rejoice."

-- Traditional Guy

It was true. It is true. When I realised what was going on in that building, I decided I wasn't going to have this shit. As I cast out the scrotes and the major disease vectors one by one, the tenants who really needed that housing and respected it came to me with thanks.