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klosey
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Join Date: Jul 2004

Location: Eggborough UK

Posts: 8,101

Re: taking estrogen blockers to raise test levels

[ QUOTE ]
an estrogen blocker blocks estrogen. They are usually used as off cycles for people using prohormones or gear.

[/ QUOTE ]

near. many use it and drop the dosage to try and control the natural estrogen rise after test crashes after coming off a cycle. estrogen blockers will be proxy raise test but could do the same as steroids and crash your natural balance so would not use them

There is a difference between estogen blockers (Also known as Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator [SERM], e.g. Tamoxifen) and aromatase inhibitor's (Like Femara).

"Aromatase inhibitors (AI) are a class of drugs used in the treatment of breast cancer and ovarian cancer in postmenopausal women that block the aromatase enzyme.

AIs are categorized into two types: [1]

* Irreversible steroidal inhibitors such as exemestane form a permanent bond with the aromatase enzyme complex.
* Non-steroidal inhibitors (such as anastrozole, [Femara] letrozole) inhibit the enzyme by reversible competition.

Mode of action

Aromatase inhibitors work by inhibiting the action of the enzyme aromatase, which converts androgens into estrogens by a process called aromatization.

Other

Investigations are ongoing to look for other applications. Researchers are studying aromatase inhibitors to stimulate ovulation (in a manner similar to, but not exactly the same as, clomiphene citrate) or suppress estrogen production, ie in endometriosis.[3]

AIs have also been used experimentally in the treatment of adolescents whose predicted adult height is low.[4]

Bodybuilders who take anabolic steroids may also take AIs to prevent the steroids from being converted to estrogen; an increase in estrogen levels has undesirable consequences for a bodybuilder, such as gynecomastia. This is often the case when a natural aromatase inhibitor 4-OHAD [1] has itself been inhibited. 4-OHAD is a metabolite of testosterone, which can mean it remains inhibited whilst aromatase levels are allowed high.

In one recent study, aromatase inhibitors were found to be no more successful at treating pubertal gynecomastia than a placebo. [5] &lt;---WISH I WOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS

Aromatase inhibitors have also been shown to reverse age-related declines in testosterone, as well as primary hypogonadism.[6]"

"SERMs are also commonly used during PCT or Post Cycle Therapy after the use of anabolic steroids. Bodybuilders who take testosterone supplements will often experience gynecomastia, also known as man-boobs, after a steroid cycle, because the body will attempt to balance estrogen with increased testosterone levels. This increase in estrogen can produce gynecomastia, so body builders will usually cycle a SERM after a steroid cycle to ensure that their body is not flooded with excess estrogen."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selecti...ptor_modulator

"Side effects
The side effects of tamoxifen and other SERMs can include hot flashes, vaginal discharge, and other menopausal symptoms, such as irregular periods, headaches, and fatigue. SERMs may also raise a woman's risk for uterine cancer, so regular pelvic exams are recommended.

Another Side effects Article on that site:
"Hot flashes are common with AIs, a class of drugs that also includes Aromasin and Femara and that women generally stay on for about five years. In a 2005 Breast Cancer Action survey of 612 breast cancer patients, 96% reported one or more AI side effects and 65% had hot flashes. Other unwanted effects of being on the drugs included bone pain (64%), fatigue (59%), muscle pain (58%), and insomnia (51%)."

I've been on both before, prescribed by my endocrinologist, but I don't think they worked that well. I took the tamoxifen for 6 months, and the femara about the same. I'm sure you'd have to go way over the recommended doses of either for much to happen. I don't really remember exactly if they did work or not, or how much if so, but it wasn't a huge difference I don't think.

I was prescribed it either because my test was too low, my estorgen was to high, or both, but I don't remember.

I am actually going to a new endo dr. next month, I haven't been to one since I was 16 I don't think. It was because of the gynecomastia I developed around 15. Maybe it was also that my testosterone was too high and that meaned I had extra estrogen as well (as if I was on steroids) but I don't know. I will post more later after the dr. appt.

"Aromatase inhibitors (AI) are a class of drugs used in the treatment of breast cancer and ovarian cancer in postmenopausal women that block the aromatase enzyme.

AIs are categorized into two types: [1]

mostly correct just shame its mainly cut and paste info
* Irreversible steroidal inhibitors such as exemestane form a permanent bond with the aromatase enzyme complex.
* Non-steroidal inhibitors (such as anastrozole, [Femara] letrozole) inhibit the enzyme by reversible competition.

Mode of action

Aromatase inhibitors work by inhibiting the action of the enzyme aromatase, which converts androgens into estrogens by a process called aromatization.

Other

Investigations are ongoing to look for other applications. Researchers are studying aromatase inhibitors to stimulate ovulation (in a manner similar to, but not exactly the same as, clomiphene citrate) or suppress estrogen production, ie in endometriosis.[3]

AIs have also been used experimentally in the treatment of adolescents whose predicted adult height is low.[4]

Bodybuilders who take anabolic steroids may also take AIs to prevent the steroids from being converted to estrogen; an increase in estrogen levels has undesirable consequences for a bodybuilder, such as gynecomastia. This is often the case when a natural aromatase inhibitor 4-OHAD [1] has itself been inhibited. 4-OHAD is a metabolite of testosterone, which can mean it remains inhibited whilst aromatase levels are allowed high.

In one recent study, aromatase inhibitors were found to be no more successful at treating pubertal gynecomastia than a placebo. [5] &lt;---WISH I WOULD HAVE KNOWN THIS

Aromatase inhibitors have also been shown to reverse age-related declines in testosterone, as well as primary hypogonadism.[6]"

"SERMs are also commonly used during PCT or Post Cycle Therapy after the use of anabolic steroids. Bodybuilders who take testosterone supplements will often experience gynecomastia, also known as man-boobs, after a steroid cycle, because the body will attempt to balance estrogen with increased testosterone levels. This increase in estrogen can produce gynecomastia, so body builders will usually cycle a SERM after a steroid cycle to ensure that their body is not flooded with excess estrogen."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selecti...ptor_modulator

"Side effects
The side effects of tamoxifen and other SERMs can include hot flashes, vaginal discharge, and other menopausal symptoms, such as irregular periods, headaches, and fatigue. SERMs may also raise a woman's risk for uterine cancer, so regular pelvic exams are recommended.

Another Side effects Article on that site:
"Hot flashes are common with AIs, a class of drugs that also includes Aromasin and Femara and that women generally stay on for about five years. In a 2005 Breast Cancer Action survey of 612 breast cancer patients, 96% reported one or more AI side effects and 65% had hot flashes. Other unwanted effects of being on the drugs included bone pain (64%), fatigue (59%), muscle pain (58%), and insomnia (51%)."

I've been on both before, prescribed by my endocrinologist, but I don't think they worked that well. I took the tamoxifen for 6 months, and the femara about the same. I'm sure you'd have to go way over the recommended doses of either for much to happen. I don't really remember exactly if they did work or not, or how much if so, but it wasn't a huge difference I don't think.

I was prescribed it either because my test was too low, my estorgen was to high, or both, but I don't remember.

I am actually going to a new endo dr. next month, I haven't been to one since I was 16 I don't think. It was because of the gynecomastia I developed around 15. Maybe it was also that my testosterone was too high and that meaned I had extra estrogen as well (as if I was on steroids) but I don't know. I will post more later after the dr. appt.

And use a test booster. Tribulus Terrestrus is not a test booster, no matter what the bottle says or the salesperson says.

I do not know much about this subject at all but it intrigued me. So while doing some research online, I did find many sites saying Tribulus Terrestrus was a testosterone booster. If it is not, what mechanism is taking place that makes them believe that it is, and market it as such?

Furthermore, What other testosterone supplements, ( not including proper sleep and diet), but substances which coupled with proper sleep and diet would increase natural testosterone production even more, without causing adverse effects.

I read a study done on bull sharks, stating that they harness up to 10x as much testosterone as a normal human male, and they are used extensively in cartilage restoration, due to their lack to deterioration.

My question about this is, Higher than normal testosterone levels have been tabooed ever since I can remember, yet these creatures have superior bone and cartilage structure, as well as emensely higher testosterone levels. How can we harness the same advantages as these sharks?

There is a small misconception in this thread. Tribulus IS a test booster. The main problem with anyone taking it is that they are following the bottle's reccomended dosages which won't do much. You need to be taking a high quality brand and around 3gr per day to see any benefit.

The only trainees who will see much benefit are those whose regimes are absolutely spot on and even then, it'll only give a minor boost. Enough to break a plateu maybe but nothing like actual Testosterone.