/ crag etiquette

I have a particular bug bare which was highlighted again today! While climbing at a relatively small crag say 30 ish routes available with a narrow belay area, though with other crags nearby we were joined by a another group. So we are set on a route, our gear tidily to the side and dog tied up lying by our gear. So often it seems people will chose to climb on top of us. Why do people choose to climb a line immediately next to an occupied line? So rather than my second set of we have to move gear along, move the dog etc only for the others in their party to decide to climb near to so repeat process. Now I can understand that they wanted to climb the classic of crag which we had just done and is good, however there were 4 other route at crag of same grade 2 of which are stared. We were seconding the route so likely not to be long before out of the way.

What I donít understand is why climb on top of each other when other routes around, I find it disruptive to my climbing and not the safest tactic either especially if loose rock around. But I think the most infuriating is that some people refuse to communicate, surely it is common courtesy to say hello what are you doing etc... in many instances this could make for a more pleasurable experience.

Personally I wonder if this type of behaviour is worse amongst climbers who are often driven people

In reply to monkey man: I think I know where you are coming from with this. Maybe I'm a bit anti-social but I tend to head off outdoors to get away from the crowds. So I do get a bit fed up when folk turn up and set up right next to me on large crags where there's plenty of room and routes for all to have a bit of space. Like you say it's not so bad if they come and say hello first etc but sometimes (often?) this doesn't happen. My own theory is that this is something that has got worse in recent years and is a fairly direct result of more and more folk coming to climbing through indoor walls and and bringing the norms of those environments (climbing cheek by jowell beside and on top of each other etc) to the crag with them?

Of course this only applies to the quieter less frequented and more out of the way venues - if I'm on Stanage on a dry summer weekend I'd not be heading out anticipating a solitary, semi-wilderness experience!

Equally, if they really want to climb the route next door to you then why should they avoid it just because your stuff is scattered around the bottom of the crag? You don't own the crag, and it's not as if they're on your route. Maybe don't dump your stuff at the very foot of the crag in front of a popular route.

If you find another group disruptive to your climbing mojo then I'd hate to think how you'd cope at Stanage with people actually watching you climb and waiting for you to finish!

What a coincidence, I was going to post a similar thread. I was climbing at a crag with a narrow belay ledge and someone had piled all their stuff under a classic route with a dog guarding it - like they were reserving it for their private use. They moved their stuff but made a big deal of it, and left their gear under another route that people would obviously want to do!

In reply to monkey man: What a sob story! When you've been loitering on UKC for a bit you'll find these sort of things come up every now and then. There are people on here who'll have a lot of fun at your expense. There was one a while ago about someone complaining bitterly because another climber had the temerity to follow close behind someone seconding Tody's Wall. It brought out a lot of sarcasm I seem to remember.
If you've got nothing worse to moan about you should think yourself lucky and save your indignation for a more worthwhile cause. Just smile and mutter "other people, what are they like?..." and you'll soon feel better.
Just as well you didn't video them and put a clip up on YouTube, 'cause you'd by now be wishing you hadn't. ;0D

In reply to monkey man: you go to a popular crag expect crowds or people on the routes next to you. You go to a sports venue on a nice day expect people on routes next to you. You want peace and quiet do what I do take a massive walk to the good routes and you see very few other people. I've spoke to people on routes and been ignored so I can see why people keep to themselves. Can I also just say double standard you want people to stop and talk/chat say hi but you don't want people climbing routes next to you..................

in reply to many points
took dog cos no one else to look after him as was me and girlfriend so better than letting him die in hot car, besides he is friends sits still where put.
I have plenty of experience of stange popular end, you know what your infor if you head there. not something i enjoy hugely and but each to their own.

I clear dont own the crag or expect to monopolise. our stuff was tidy and yes by the climb w were doing cos obviously not going to put it at the other end of the crag and limited belay area. in this case there were plenty of other good routes to climb without being on top of one another, had they asked then we were seconding the line to clean gear and had already done other routes so with 5 minutes of paitents then they would have had area to them selfs but instead we have belayers on top of each other, climbers unable to use foot holds cos someones fingers are near and loose rock very close... i am sure they would have enjoed their route more had they stopped to asked and waited 5 min is all i am saying and worsed case could always have done another route in mean time!

In reply to monkey man: You have my sympathy. Although irritating, I tend to be more philosophical about such things these days, having seen it repeated many times to myself and others. I'd call it more human nature than anything specific to climbing folk though. Why, if you park in an empty car park do people come and park next to you.

In reply to Mark Collins: I'm not sure if I totally agree about the human nature ...climbers are a strange breed ?? it doesn't take much to say hello and pass the time of day...no one expects or wants a full on conversation. I have met both (lots of really friendly folk at the crags/boulders and then the miserable buggers who just ignore you and pretend you'r not there)Takes all kinds but I know who I prefer to meet !!

As far as climbing on top or very near other clinmbers...I agree no one owns the crags/boulders but being friendly does help to keep the atmosphere amicable..say hello for christ's sake. I blame the parents frankly, where are your manners !!