Gun Control Debate Thread: So we don't trash the Texas Thread

Donor

i am curious for those who are pro gun control what they expect to accomplish.

I say this as an owner of a handgun and a shotgun.

I mean every single person on this board if they wanted could find Heroin within 24 hours. Yet that is illegal. It's against the law to own or sell Heroin or any other controlled substance without a scrip.

So I ask what would a gun ban on handguns or assault rifles accomplish? Besides making it more difficult for a rightful citizen to obtain one?

Donor

Ban guns and the black market price on them goes through the roof. Can't compare it to heroin.

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Seriously? You can 3d print guns now. It goes through the roof? So is that your barrier to entry? To raise prices? Shit tax the hell out of guns to the point it's 200% and I promise the gangs will still get them.

DonorTMB OG

i am curious for those who are pro gun control what they expect to accomplish.

I say this as an owner of a handgun and a shotgun.

I mean every single person on this board if they wanted could find Heroin within 24 hours. Yet that is illegal. It's against the law to own or sell Heroin or any other controlled substance without a scrip.

So I ask what would a gun ban on handguns or assault rifles accomplish? Besides making it more difficult for a rightful citizen to obtain one?

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Aren't a lot of these mass shootings done by rightful citizens who went nuts? Maybe if rightful citizens couldn't lawfully access these weapons it wouldn't happen as often as it does.

I'm sure every talking point will be hit in this thread, but the idea that limiting access to guns wouldn't limit access to guns is retarded. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would likely curtail it some.

Donor

Aren't a lot of these mass shootings done by rightful citizens who went nuts? Maybe if rightful citizens couldn't lawfully access these weapons it wouldn't happen as often as it does.

I'm sure every talking point will be hit in this thread, but the idea that limiting access to guns wouldn't limit access to guns is retarded. It wouldn't solve the problem, but it would likely curtail it some.

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Well I would argue that every single one of these people who participated in mass shootings were suffering from a mental illness. So I believe if that is the common denominator then stop worrying about what the sane people buy or collect and put some funding towards the population who has some screws loose.

Donor

Well I would argue that every single one of these people who participated in mass shootings were suffering from a mental illness. So I believe if that is the common denominator then stop worrying about what the sane people buy or collect and put some funding towards the population who has some screws loose.

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it's like you don't even understand how your easy access to guns allows those other folks easier access.

Donor

I made my feelings pretty clear in the other thread but Guns should't be outlawed. I don't think it solves the problem. I don't know how anyone can justify taking the rights away from citizens who have done nothing wrong because of shitbags like Storm Roof.

Donor

Sell some of the bullshit military equipment going to our police departments and use the funds to provide better mental illness treatment.

It's terrible the amount of money we spend on prisons compared to the money spent on mental health care facilities.

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Being "mentally ill" (the term in and of itself adds to the problem) carries a stigma. Turning the patients out onto the streets, where they may be publicly judged and harassed, is accomplishing nothing.

Individuals with mental and emotional challenge(s) are/can be functional, productive members of society who simply need the assistance and services of medical professionals. Make that assistance accessible and being "mentally ill" will lose its stigma - and those who need care will get it.

DonorTMB OG

Well I would argue that every single one of these people who participated in mass shootings were suffering from a mental illness. So I believe if that is the common denominator then stop worrying about what the sane people buy or collect and put some funding towards the population who has some screws loose.

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I think both objectives are worthy. Better identification and treatment of mental health issues is necessary, but not every psycho is identifiable before he grabs a bunch of mom's guns and kills 20 children.

Donor

Being "mentally ill" (in and of itself adds to the problem) carries a stigma. Turning the patients out onto the streets, where they may be publicly judged and harassed, is accomplishing nothing.

Individuals with mental and emotional challenge(s) are/can be functional, productive members of society who simply need the assistance of medical professionals and services. Make that assistance accessible, and "mental illness" will lose its stigma - and those who need intensive care will get it.

Donor

I think both objectives are worthy. Better identification and treatment of mental health issues is necessary, but not every psycho is identifiable before he grabs a bunch of mom's guns and kills 20 children.

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See I disagree. I think with better funding and resources that people like this can be identified. It won't solve the problem but I think it's a better solution to trying to outlaw guns.

Donor

Theoretically, since a gun ban in this country isn't feasible in the foreseeable future, making guns illegal takes them out of the hands of more casual owners/users. These are the people who are much more likely to get shot by somebody they know, or use it against themselves, or be involved in a gun accident, than actually use it in the defense of themselves, their family, or their property. Those listed instances constitute the majority of gun homicides in this country. Nobody buys a gun expecting that they'll get shot with it because their wife is pissed at them fucking the neighbor lady, but that's what happens. Nobody buys a gun thinking their kid is going to put a hole in his little brother's thorax, but that's what happens. Nobody buys a gun thinking that they're going to splatter their brains on the dining room wall in a few years when something bad/sad happens to them and they can't take it, but that's what happens.

I don't see a criminal element out there just waiting for law-abiding citizens to have no means of protecting themselves during home invasions or street muggings. Stupid people still hold up convenience stores pretty much knowing that the person behind the counter probably has a .38 under the counter near the cash register. Street muggers know that pretty much anybody out there isn't armed, because it's unlawful to carry a concealed firearm in most states unless you have a concealed carry permit, which very few people have. Home invaders generally look for easy targets, where people aren't home, doors and windows are open/unlocked, no dogs, etc. I just don't see some spike in crime because law-abiding people don't have firearms to protect themselves. Especially in this day and age when cameras are everywhere.

England has almost no firearms, and has a very low gun crime rate. Switzerland has an assault rifle in the house of every able-bodied man 17-45, and has a very low gun crime rate. Obviously, not all the problem lies with availability. I think part of the problem in the US is a frontier mentality/culture of rugged individualism (even though we officially closed the frontier in 1910). You see it in our westerns, in mafia movies, 24, etc. Real men solve their own problems, don't rely on the police or impersonal institutions, and frequently escalate conflicts to deadly levels in order to get their way. So, Joe Idiot feels he needs a gun because, well, you never know when you have to take matters into your own hands. This mentality may have been useful when we were a nation of gentleman farmers going off to hunt dinner on the north forty, but it doesn't work particularly well in the urban, industrial/postindustrial media-seeped society that we've developed into.

Donor

I think both objectives are worthy. Better identification and treatment of mental health issues is necessary, but not every psycho is identifiable before he grabs a bunch of mom's guns and kills 20 children.

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Correct.

Elliot Rodger's acts had little to do with guns. His acts could have been prevented had the therapists and officials working with Elliot and his family taken action.

Elliot Rodger slipped through the cracks, selfishly taking 6 individuals' lives. The system will continue to recycle itself until the laws and policies of both firearms and mental health are reformed rather than be discussed on the nightly news. If not, we will continue to disgrace ourselves again and again.

Donor

"On this Thanksgiving weekend, let me say this: God Bless America the only country on this fucking planet where you still have the freedom to build AKs in defense of Motherland! The only country where a shit-shovel can become an awesome weapon of death and destruction.

Do you love gardening, do you have a tool shed?

Please be aware that hiding in your garage, there may be dozens of Killy, high-clip-capacitated, school-penetrating, children-hating, Assault Weapons of Mass Destruction! Please send this message to all your libtard friends to make sure that they call 911 when they encounter anything that looks like a shovel. Thousands of hardware and home improvement stores are selling AKs through the "shovel" loophole to anyone!

When I was driving through VT backroads this fall, I stopped at a gun shop and seeing a few ARs made me feel gay enough to visit a dilapidated "antique barn" where farmers sell authentic garbage from the local dump to idiot tourists. When I smelled a much stronger odor of cow shit, I saw this shovel and the image of the AK handle came to my exasperated mind. Flustered old dude was suspicious of a comrade in a BMW, on less traveled gravel roads of VT, who barely spoke English and needed a shit shovel "for my trunk" but let it go for $2. That's the best $2 I ever spent, closely behind that one time in Montreal - but that's another story.

I cut the handle from the shovel and fashioned it into a buttstock for my Bulgy AK with ever changing furniture. This new butt stock had proven to be surprisingly comfortable.

What kind of AK is it?

What kind of stock is it?

Did you start drinking again?

Well, this is not the end, it's a beginning, because one night I was drinking with the shovel and contemplating what to do with it. It's funny, when you are sober, you can't understand how a shovel can share with you a delicious drink of vodka. So I said to shovel, I will re-unite you with your handle and we had another round of drinks to celebrate! ... and then I cut it up.

To start, I wanted to anneal the shovel and pound it flat enough. To accomplish this I pissed into the furnace and lit it on fire. Then I added some waste motor oil to get to higher temps.

This was a sunny day, but furnace temperature is considerably brighter than any surface around, so camera makes it look like night.

The layer of oxide is completely indestructible.

To get rails straight, the trick is to bend them first.

Then you trim and ground them with an angle grinder. Receiver came out as straight as Liberace in drag thumbing through gay porn magazines. I do not however discriminate between straight AK receivers and those that chose different orientation.

After that, receiver can be bent just like a regular AK receiver from a blank.

I even added Maadi style dimples.

Various holes were cut free hand with plasma torch, as you can see by the jagged edges I haven't been drinking.

And now we fit a highly collectable Romy trunnion.

I had a few strips of shovel left after cutting the top rails.

So I decided to bend them into internal rails like these from a stock flat.

Dimension wise, I just eyeballed them to get close enough and sandblasted them for welding onto receiver.

Spotwelding them did not work out too well, as receiver thickness is a bit thicker than regular AK receiver flats, so I cut 1/4 inch holes to weld rails through.

While at it, I figured to cut out the selector key hole.

Then the rails are welded around and to the receiver.

Looks good!

Now for the barrel blank ... I am working with a cheapo $200, barelles kit so I figured I need to make my own barrel. I got a barrel blank ($30), profiled trunnion end, chambered it and cut extractor wedge. The chamber is probably barely good enough to be a machine-gun chamber, definitely not a precision job. I lobbed off the end of the blank to bring overall length to 16.25".

Since I was on a roll, I riveted a scope side mount that was kicking around.

Here is a pic of an AK receiver and Shovel AK receiver. The latter is almost 2.5 times thicker and it feels like a rock. Shit, I tried to pound some dents out of the receiver and the hammer got dented, because in communist Massachusetts receiver dents you!

This receiver turned out to be stiffer than me watching full-featured film of Michael Kalashnikov doing Polina Porizkova in a heavy KVI tank on board of a navy destroyer in a midst of a battle.

Then I riveted a whole bunch more shit.

Sight block, gas block and front sight were just welded onto the barrel.

My awesome and super-collectible Romy kit included kick-ass furniture, like this gas tube with "Mihaela" on it and 12 notches. I don't get it, Mihaela is a Romanian female name and the guy only scored 12 of them.

I drilled the gas port after gas block was welded.

Assembly complete!

I put a $30 cheap scope with a double rail and WTF, since it had a second rail I added a cheap laser to go with it. The bolt on the scope needed periodic tightening, may be I need lubricate them with cat turds? Laser took off after about 20 rounds.

After 50-60 rounds, the barrel was slightly warm. The height adjustment knob on the scope came off, which explained why it would click sometimes and sometimes not. Once I pulled it off, I could adjust fine.

Staff

Really? You couldn't show up down near Central or in Pine Bluff or White Hall; if you REALLY wanted some?

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In theory I guess. I'm a 47 year old white guy with no history if drug use and no criminal record, so I have zero connections and zero knowledge of the drug subculture. So I'd be probably laughed at, at best, or killed, at worst.

Donor

Yeahhhh this happened not too long ago in my hometown. Feel free to go around looking for heroin, though

"Yakima police have found the body of Gary Snell, who has been missing since December 4th. Police and sheriff's deputies acting on a tip found Snell's body today at a residence on the 2200 block of Butterfield Road. Snell was shot to death and was found underneath a back porch

Snell was last seen Saturday December 4th outside the Pizza Hut off of North 40th Avenue. Police say he may have been involved in a drug transaction at the time.

Police arrested 20 year old Sebastian Looney, who has been booked under a charge of murder in the first degree"

Guns are a byproduct of a murder culture, not the other way around. Most gun crimes are not committed with legally owned weapons. Most stabbings, on the other hand are. Would you feel any better if the victims were pushed out of windows? If the kid blew up the church with fertilizer? Stop blaming guns and blame the people

DonorTMB OG

Donor

So I ask what would a gun ban on handguns or assault rifles accomplish? Besides making it more difficult for a rightful citizen to obtain one?

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it probably would've prevented this charleston incident, for one. i would bet that there's a the father would not have given the kid a hangun if it was illegal.

i am generally pro-gun, but if the experience of foreign nations is considered, you have to say that gun restriction leads to less gun crime. i would say something like : make all handguns illegal, except for anyone over age 25 who has taken an extremely boring state-mandated safety course.

Donor

it probably would've prevented this charleston incident, for one. i would bet that there's a the father would not have given the kid a hangun if it was illegal.

i am generally pro-gun, but if the experience of foreign nations is considered, you have to say that gun restriction leads to less gun crime. i would say make all handguns illegal for anyone who hasn't taken an extremely boring state-mandated safety course.

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You do realize that people have been murdered in churches without the use of handguns, correct?