Toodledo is not for GTD

We do plan to make some upgrades to the way subtasks are managed in a future update that will hopefully be ready for release soon. Many of the suggestions that we have received in the past will be incorporated. Unfortunately, I can't go into more detail about the specifics.

As for work-home issues. You could use Contexts for this and then use the filter to filter them out. If you have any specific suggestions for improvements, we would love to hear them.

When I am at work. I don't care about home related task or anything else. I only want to deal with Work. If I used folder "Projects". I would have no way of looking at all my work related activities. All my work related task that are NOT projects would be in one view. Then I would have Folders "Projects" that can be related to work or home but I won't have the focus to work only.

If you use folders for projects, then you should use contexts for "home" and "work". The key is to change your default view for the web (and iphone if you use it) to be Contexts instead of Folders. You log onto the web site, you pick your context, and off you go. All tasks for that context are in view, the Folder field lists the project.

This is the way I do it. In addition to the folders I create for projects, I have one folder that I have generically named Tasks. This is where I assign any non-project tasks.

I originally started by using the task-subtask method for projects, but I had too much trouble with it, probably for many of the reasons you do. Frustrated, I decided to try using folders for projects. I'm glad I did. In fact, I'm not even using subtasks now.

We need to have a Work Folder for ALL work related task and projects. This is why projects should be implemented to work inside of the Folders and allow us to not only see our Work task, but also manage our Work Projects in the same view.

I would have a problem with this. For me, work and home are not necessarily exclusive. I may have a home project that includes a phone call that I have to make during business hours, which for me, that means I have to make it at work. More often for me it's the other way around. I sometimes have a need to do work at home, like checking a server over the weekend. I'm sure I'm not alone with this kind of crossing. The Work-Home folder division doesn't work in this case, but Work-Home context does. I can review all the tasks related to the project within its folder regardless of where each task may be performed.

Roddy

I appreciate all the neat work arounds shared here, but that in itself is the problem. There should be no work around for managing Projects and Task. This is at the core of any software that is considered a Task/Project Manager.

You see. I don't believe in the "Home" context or "Work" context. That is not a resource. I can have a work related task that requires me to research online to find the answer. I can also have a home related task that requires me to research online. You see, the context for both of these task is "Online". Not work or home. That is a location. Context should be @Computer, @Email, @Phone, @Meeting, @Online, etc.

Projects should be managed inside of any area of focus. I consider the Folders an area of Focus. Work Folder, Personal Folder, Business Folder.

Now that I have focus, I can filter my task specifically by the resource needed to complete them. If you use folders for individual projects, you will have to jump between Work related task, Work related Projects, Personal Task, Personal Projects, etc. This is why Folders don't work as Projects. This is my opinion of course and I respect the opinion of others.

A work around is great as we wait for things to be implemented better. If I had to get in my car from the passenger door, because the driver door is jammed. I can see this as a solution to get in my car and get to work. But I do not want to do this for ever. I need the Drivers door fixed.

Folders are ares of Focus. Let's keep it simple and just use two. Work Folder and Home Folder.

When I am at work, I can click on the Folder (Focus) and only see things related to work. Now I have a bunch of task that have context assigned. Context are the resources I need to get these task completed. If our Internet went down at work, I know that all task with a context of @Online can't be done at that time. If the email server went down, I know that any task with the @Email context can't be done at that time.

This is where filtering by context comes to life. What if I am talking on the phone and I feel I am on a role. I want to knock out other phone calls right now while my attitude is good. I can filter my task using @Phone to see who else I can call.

I am doing all of this while focused at Work in my Work Folder.

In the settings panel to the left of Toodledo, there is a section called Folders/Context. This is where we need "Projects" added. I click on there and create new Project Titles with descriptions and some other information.

Now back to my Work Task. I just got back from a meeting and realize that one my task will require an additional 5 steps to complete. This by GTD will become a Project. I got to my Projects area and create one called R&D for example. I now have a R&D Project.

Now back to my Work Folder (Focus). I find the original task and click on it. One of my options is called Projects and I see a pull down list. There it is "R&D". I select it and this task is now part of my "R&D" project. The task now has a new label in the front called "R&D" as an indicator that it's a Project. I can still see the task as I normally would.

Now I create the other 4 task that are required and select "R&D" as the project they belong too.

So now let's go to the Projects section that is at the top of the Work Folder View. Not the sections listed on the top of the Toodledo site, but this can also be added there as another view option.

I click on Projects and see a list of Projects in my Work Folder (Focus). I select R&D and there are my 5 task.

This is where some options can be useful. I can choose to only show Project task with a Status of "Next Action" to ever show up on my Work Folder List. As I complete the task, the next one will become "Next Action" and show up automatically. This is how most people would use it, but it can also be flexible enough to allow you to choose which task to show on the Work Folder List. You can have a check mark and be working on two of the task at the same time. Again, some options here would cater to more people.

The task that belong to a project are clearly marked under the Work folder and I can select Projects under the work folder to see all the task required for any project. There is no confusion now since I have never left my Work Folder or Area of Focus as I like to call it.

We can also have the option to select the a Project Task from the Task list and toggle the other task that belong to the same project. This will allow you to quickly see how much progress you are making. You can also click on the Projects button in the work folder to see all your projects in that one view.

What I would like is Areas of Focus with built in Project Management and control over sub-task. This means you can order them as they need to be completed, they show up automatically when the task above it is marked complete.

Sub-task control also means we have some rules that allow us to not see when a sub-task has a due date approaching, regardless if it's not the task marked "Next Action". This is realistic when we are falling behind and there is a time sensitive task in the project that needs to get attention. These type of options will allow sub-task to show up on the Work Folder List to get our attention.

I know others will have great things to add and suggestions of their own. I don't expect that everything we want or recommend can or will be implemented, but I do believe that Projects and Sub-task need to be reworked. I think Folders should remain areas of focus and Projects should be managed inside these areas.

I just got two more friends to become Pro Subscribers, so I do believe Toodledo is a great product.

Folders are ares of Focus. Let's keep it simple and just use two. Work Folder and Home Folder.

When I am at work, I can click on the Folder (Focus) and only see things related to work. Now I have a bunch of task that have context assigned. Context are the resources I need to get these task completed. If our Internet went down at work, I know that all task with a context of @Online can't be done at that time. If the email server went down, I know that any task with the @Email context can't be done at that time.

This is where filtering by context comes to life. What if I am talking on the phone and I feel I am on a role. I want to knock out other phone calls right now while my attitude is good. I can filter my task using @Phone to see who else I can call.

I am doing all of this while focused at Work in my Work Folder.

In the settings panel to the left of Toodledo, there is a section called Folders/Context. This is where we need "Projects" added. I click on there and create new Project Titles with descriptions and some other information.

Now back to my Work Task. I just got back from a meeting and realize that one my task will require an additional 5 steps to complete. This by GTD will become a Project. I got to my Projects area and create one called R&D for example. I now have a R&D Project.

Now back to my Work Folder (Focus). I find the original task and click on it. One of my options is called Projects and I see a pull down list. There it is "R&D". I select it and this task is now part of my "R&D" project. The task now has a new label in the front called "R&D" as an indicator that it's a Project. I can still see the task as I normally would.

Now I create the other 4 task that are required and select "R&D" as the project they belong too.

So now let's go to the Projects section that is at the top of the Work Folder View. Not the sections listed on the top of the Toodledo site, but this can also be added there as another view option.

I click on Projects and see a list of Projects in my Work Folder (Focus). I select R&D and there are my 5 task.

This is where some options can be useful. I can choose to only show Project task with a Status of "Next Action" to ever show up on my Work Folder List. As I complete the task, the next one will become "Next Action" and show up automatically. This is how most people would use it, but it can also be flexible enough to allow you to choose which task to show on the Work Folder List. You can have a check mark and be working on two of the task at the same time. Again, some options here would cater to more people.

The task that belong to a project are clearly marked under the Work folder and I can select Projects under the work folder to see all the task required for any project. There is no confusion now since I have never left my Work Folder or Area of Focus as I like to call it.

We can also have the option to select the a Project Task from the Task list and toggle the other task that belong to the same project. This will allow you to quickly see how much progress you are making. You can also click on the Projects button in the work folder to see all your projects in that one view.

What I would like is Areas of Focus with built in Project Management and control over sub-task. This means you can order them as they need to be completed, they show up automatically when the task above it is marked complete.

Sub-task control also means we have some rules that allow us to not see when a sub-task has a due date approaching, regardless if it's not the task marked "Next Action". This is realistic when we are falling behind and there is a time sensitive task in the project that needs to get attention. These type of options will allow sub-task to show up on the Work Folder List to get our attention.

I know others will have great things to add and suggestions of their own. I don't expect that everything we want or recommend can or will be implemented, but I do believe that Projects and Sub-task need to be reworked. I think Folders should remain areas of focus and Projects should be managed inside these areas.

I just got two more friends to become Pro Subscribers, so I do believe Toodledo is a great product.

Thanks.

What you are describing is very similar to how Vitalist does it. I came to Toodledo from Vitalist as I feel Toodledo is better, but maybe you should check out Vitalist.

I also came from Vitalist. Toodledo is much better with more control and gives you flexibility. Vitalist does Projects the correct way and it would a nice if Toodledo would go and see how they implemented it.

Vitalist has the ability to become a much better product and even match Toodledo. Toodledo is way ahead of them in many areas, but Toodledo simply failed to get Projects and Sub-task correctly.

I believe this will be fixed and Toodledo will be the best of the best.

When I am at work. I don't care about home related task or anything else....

If you use folders for projects, then you should use contexts for "home" and "work". ...

Roddy

I appreciate all the neat work arounds shared here, but that in itself is the problem. There should be no work around for managing Projects and Task. This is at the core of any software that is considered a Task/Project Manager.

You see. I don't believe in the "Home" context or "Work" context. That is not a resource. I can have a work related task that requires me to research online to find the answer. I can also have a home related task that requires me to research online. You see, the context for both of these task is "Online". Not work or home. That is a location. Context should be @Computer, @Email, @Phone, @Meeting, @Online, etc.

Projects should be managed inside of any area of focus. I consider the Folders an area of Focus. Work Folder, Personal Folder, Business Folder.

Now that I have focus, I can filter my task specifically by the resource needed to complete them. If you use folders for individual projects, you will have to jump between Work related task, Work related Projects, Personal Task, Personal Projects, etc. This is why Folders don't work as Projects. This is my opinion of course and I respect the opinion of others.

Proximo

I think I'm with Roddy here, rather than Proximo. If I'm at home and thinking "What should I do next?" I find it very convenient to use Context as "home". I don't particularly care if the thing I'm going to do next will involve the phone, or the computer, or a shovel; I can gather my resources as needed. So I don't think I would like Proximo's @Phone, @Computer contexts. They would not help me get things done. On the other hand, almost everything on my list can either ONLY be done at home, or ONLY at work, or ONLY while shopping. Contexts work really nicely for me here. In fact I wish Toodledo would let me set a "current context" and default new tasks to it, and only show tasks in that context by default, effectively letting me tell it where I am. (Geolocation to come in the Android version I hope :-))

Doing it this way frees Folders to be GTD projects. I cheat on this and don't make a new folder for every one, I'd have too many, but the big ones get folders and the little ones piggyback in the same folders and I can use tags to distinguish them since tags are very lightweight.

I just set my standard view to a search: Soon@Work, which finds all tasks due in <7 days (or overdue or undated), with context of work (or none, in case I forgot to give a task a context). Similarly for Soon@Home. This is not too bad.

I too avoid subtasks, they don't seem to work at all in the way I would need. Perhaps when they're fixed I'll switch to a mode where small Projects get a master task, and the subtasks are the actions.

(ps: hope the quoting comes out right here, I don't see a "preview" button...)

I think I'm with Roddy here, rather than Proximo. If I'm at home and thinking "What should I do next?" I find it very convenient to use Context as "home". I don't particularly care if the thing I'm going to do next will involve the phone, or the computer, or a shovel; I can gather my resources as needed. So I don't think I would like Proximo's @Phone, @Computer contexts. They would not help me get things done. On the other hand, almost everything on my list can either ONLY be done at home, or ONLY at work, or ONLY while shopping. Contexts work really nicely for me here. In fact I wish Toodledo would let me set a "current context" and default new tasks to it, and only show tasks in that context by default, effectively letting me tell it where I am. (Geolocation to come in the Android version I hope :-))

I am not sure I follow - you just go to the context view, and chose "at home" and toodledo will only show you those tasks in that context, and new tasks will default to that context. I use that all the time - in particular I have a "leaving home" context for things I need to remember to take and/or prepare when leaving in the morning which has proved to be a godsend.

About the choice of contexts: Like Proximo I do use Phone and Computer as contexts (as well as location based ones) and do find them useful. Yes, I can ask for those contexts at home or at work or at the coffee shop, but the point is that they enable me to go on a roll - sit down, make a bunch of phone calls and then go do something else. Even though I have a phone at work all the time, I make my phone calls when my officemate is on a break, as hearing somebody on the phone can be distracting. So as soon as he leaves clutching his mug I hit the phone context and go.

So my contexts are: home, leaving home, work, leaving work, in town (what some call errands), phone, computer, project (I think I picked this from Proximo). While this doesn't allow me to make a simple mapping ("I use contexts for location"), in practice it works very well for me.

I am not sure I follow - you just go to the context view, and chose "at home" and toodledo will only show you those tasks in that context, and new tasks will default to that context. I use that all the time - in particular I have a "leaving home" context for things I need to remember to take and/or prepare when leaving in the morning which has proved to be a godsend.

About the choice of contexts: Like Proximo I do use Phone and Computer as contexts (as well as location based ones) and do find them useful. Yes, I can ask for those contexts at home or at work or at the coffee shop, but the point is that they enable me to go on a roll - sit down, make a bunch of phone calls and then go do something else. Even though I have a phone at work all the time, I make my phone calls when my officemate is on a break, as hearing somebody on the phone can be distracting. So as soon as he leaves clutching his mug I hit the phone context and go.

So my contexts are: home, leaving home, work, leaving work, in town (what some call errands), phone, computer, project (I think I picked this from Proximo). While this doesn't allow me to make a simple mapping ("I use contexts for location"), in practice it works very well for me.

I can't use the Context view because it shows me too much stuff and not enough stuff. :-) My main view is a saved search that filters out far-future tasks (>7 days from now), and includes both work context and no-context (in case I forgot to set the ctxt). Unfortunately if you're in a search view, you can't get the context to default to anything (as far as I know). Frossie, I'm surprised you don't need to use a search view as standard too, to show all your (work OR phone OR computer) contexts, since a task can only have a single context in TD.

Now if ToodleDo would let me modify the implicit search that happens underneath its standard views, while still letting me set fields to default values when creating new tasks, I'd be in heaven :-).

Frossie, I'm surprised you don't need to use a search view as standard too, to show all your (work OR phone OR computer) contexts, since a task can only have a single context in TD.

No, I don't use a search view as standard, partly because I primarily work through folders. Basically, I look at a folder, pick task X (frequently by no logic known to man), then pick things that have the same context as X if applicable.

I think the difference is that for me a context is not about where something gets done; it indicates that something can ONLY be done in that location. As I work both from the office and home, that means that most of my work items have no context - the ones that do are the ones that I can only do at one location (for example hand in some paperwork at the office).

Perhaps the issue is that I have a modest number of tasks - most of the things I do really are next actions on a few major projects and life's logistics, so a glance down the page works fine most of the time

However I agree that allowing each user to define the parameters of what appears on the hotlist would make a lot of people happy - certainly I don't use the hotlist because it doesn't really show me something I can relate to.

Why not have some empty fields that each user can customize ?
Let'say you have up to 10 fields, you name them as you want. It then can be roles, area of focus, project, tag, context, sub-project, goals, etc...
Then it's up to the user to make it suit his Time management method. Because Covey's, Allen's, Forster's or others' methods, can require very different setups.

One important option on these fields is to be able to choose between a closed toggle menu with pre-set choices(such as priorities), or an on-the-fly editable field, like tags are.

Today I use folders for projects, and tags for subprojects, but I still miss an easy way to filter home or work projects. Customizable fields would help a lot, I think.

I do use contexts, but they are related to ... the context, and do not necessarily help to place tasks in a project hierarchy. I can for example have a home project related task to do @work, or even @phone or @outside.

Contexts, as well as priorities, help me pick up what I am going to do next. They do not help me structure my tasks within projects or roles.

I can live with folders, tags, goals, and subtasks, but my "ideal" set-up would have projects and subprojects fields as added.

I use contexts in a similar way to help me take care of tasks when I am in favorable situation for completing them whether or not they might be on my mind at the time.

As far as the organizational scheme of Toodledo goes, I use it in a much less ridged manner than the hard-core GTD folks. I can also get along just fine with the current system, but would love to see another level added. I don't care what the positions in the hierarchy are called, they could add projects, superfolders, or subsubtasks, and any one of them would be great.

I believe everyone here has good ideas on what works for them and customize Toodledo to make it all happen.

Although many of us have different views, I would like to point out that Context are not only locations. I know some of you mentioned that you don't agree with a context as a resource, but that is exactly how they where designed by David Allen in his book "Getting Things Done".

If you read the Toodledo basic help section where it ask. What are context? Toodledo does a great job of explaining that this is a GTD function many people use, but their description of what a context is does not line up with GTD.

Here is what the book says and I quote

Context:

"A few actions can be done anywhere (like drafting ideas about a project with pen and paper), but most require a specific location (at home, at your office) or having some productivity tool at hand, such as a phone or a computer. These are the first factors that limit your choices about what you can do in the moment."

The idea of context is for you to filter task by location and/or resource.

Here is another quote from the book.

Context:
"As I've said, you should always organize your action reminders by context - "Calls," "At Home," "At Computer," "errands," "Agenda for Joe,"Agenda for Staff Meeting," and so on. Since context is the first criterion that comes into play in your choice of actions, context-sorted list prevent unnecessary reassessments about what to do. If you have a bunch of things to do on one to-do list, but you actually can't do many of them in the same context, you force yourself to continually keep reconsidering all of them."

This is why using Folders for managing projects runs into a problem for GTD users. If you are only using one major list of task for everyhing in your life to include work and personal, you are not able to filter task by the resource you have at hand. This breaks GTD.

If you use folders as Areas of Focus, you can have 100 task in your Work folder and filter the ones that require @Internet or @online because the phone system is down or email is down. There is no need to see task that require a resource you don't have access to or could be down.

On the other hand if you put all task in one area and filter context by location. You now see 100 related work task, but you must go through them and see which ones can be worked on and waste time. I am using an example that email is down or the phone system is down to explain why this limitation goes against GTD.

If you are not a GTD follower, then you can do what works. Context are mainly used by GTD users and Toodledo clearly agrees with this on their Basic Help section, so I was describing context from the GTD perspective and they should not be limited to a location alone.

The great thing about Toodledo is that it's not designed for GTD users only, but has the flexibility for anyone to use as they see fit. Just wanted to clear up what context are for those who did not agree that a resource is a context and I hope you can understand the benefit of filtering your task by not only location, but also resource.

I find that Toodledo works well for my own personal GTD system, although my approach is a bit non-standard. This may not work for you, but it works for me.

I don't use folders at all. Instead, I use tags to identify my projects. This requires some discipline: one tag per action. I also create a special action, where the tag and the action are the same - this tag gets a context of Z.title.tag. This way, the project doesn't get lost when I run out identified actions.

I also have a structure to my tags. Every tag starts with a code. For example, all projects that are personal get a tag that starts with "P - " so that a project about buying a gift would be, "P - Buy gift for Dan". I have other codes for work, school, etc.

I also rely heavily on saved searches.

I have a number of saved searches that let me view only those tasks where the tag includes my designated code. Since I use the same code structure, a search for "P - " in the tag finds all my personal projects with their tasks - not just everything with a "P" in it. I also use other filters to exclude completed tasks, etc. This lets me think about, for example, only work-oriented projects while I am at work.

When I view my all tasks for my weekly review (all tasks, all projects), I sort by tag, then by context, then my due date. This lets me see all the projects organized on one page. Any project that is missing a next action is still visible, thanks to the Z.title.tag. I do this on a saved search page with multiple filters. I also use the "personal" and "work" saved searches during my weekly review, to think about things one realm at a time, when the full page feels too overwhelming.

Finally, I have a saved search I call my "SuperStar" page that I keep for managing my tasks for the day at work and in the office. This includes only items that are appropriate for work (I work "for the man" and can't just run out to buy cat litter in the middle of the day), work items that are starred , and work items that are due within the next three days. I view these items by context, so I don't have to spend time scanning, for example, if the internet goes down. Things are already neatly organized into "@online" vs. "@phone". This is my substitute for the hotlist.

I use stars to indicate that something is urgent.

This is my personal approach. It isn't as elegant as it might be, but it works. And I don't have to think about it too much - just use it. YMMV.

Wow! It amazing how creative people are with Toodledo! Here's my GTD system in Toodledo:

Folders - Represent significant projects, projects where I may want reference notes. Using folders allows me to use the Notebook feature as designed being it's tied to the Folders. I also have one folder called Inbox which new tasks are directed to.

Contexts - These represent high level context or focus areas. Currently: Church, Errands, Health, Home, Work, Personal. I like differentiating between these focus areas which are a type of context and more detailed context involving resources/location/people

Tags - Further contextual information. This is where I determine what actual resources I need handy to complete the task. Includes: @co, @p, @o, @c, etc. These are shorthand for common contexts @Computer, @Phone, @Outside, @Church, etc. This also provides flexibility for agendas and location contexts:
Agenda: @mom, @wife, @BrianL, @Samuel, @Qwest
Location: @HomeDepot, @FredMeyer

SubTasks - Represent tasks requiring multiple steps or what GTD suggests is a project, although I've always had a hard time considering some multi-step tasks a project in my mind. I'll tag these parent tasks @prj so I can search these lesser "projects" for loose ends easily.

Using Folders for large projects works because I'm not generally creating alot of these on the fly. Using subtasks for lesser projects works because I'm generally creating more of these on the fly AND I may want to use these multi-step tasks within the context of a large project, essentially giving me three levels of hierarchy.

By using folders as projects as Toodledo has suggested I hope to avoid reorganizing my system as Toodledo continues to make improvements and better support projects via folders (assumption).

Anyhow, this seems to be workin' for me both at the desktop and iPhone.

I fell like the 'tag' is somewhat limited though. It would be better, in my opinion, if we could have multiple tags. So if I assigned a tag as 'personal, gift.idea', then when I sorted the task would show up both under 'personal' and under 'gift.idea' groupings. Then to search, you could try to find tag:personal+gift.idea, which would only show items that match both.

I also like the earlier suggested solution to allow users access to like 3 custom fields. The user could specify the label to apply to the field, and the values they want available, and then it could be adapted to their particular system.

Implement either/both of the above, and allow users to save custom searches for later reuse, and Toodledo will be pretty close to perfect for me.