Why don't you try walking down the street in Newark at night and come back to me? I have lived in NJ so try fooling someone else.

I never said there isn't a problem. I said you can't pretend to know it like it really is sitting in your house reading foreign newspapers.

Or go ahead, continue doing that and take a walk in Newark, Edison etc. and let us know how safe you feel.

Click to expand...

Please, I have lived in Newark and no its not common for groups of men to walk up to a woman and fondle her as they please. Crime, shootings, car jackings, even **** sure. Eve teasing no. And its funny you pick one of the most dangerous cities in the country, when this problem in India is widespread covering the cities and the countryside.

and I dont pretend to know from articles. I also take the time to read the comments sections.

I once spent an afternoon reading of hundreds of comments from Times of India, Hindu Times etc. Comments of people actually living in india. it was very illuminating. I read complaints of how the court system is aj oke, the police are only there to protect the very wealthy and politicians are corrupt. There was a lot of vitriol it seemd towards sheila dixit and sonia ghandi and thier hypocracy towards women's issues, especially miss dixit's pardoning of apparent known rapists.

The newspapaer doesnt tell the whole story, but you can learn alot of what is really happening from the comments section. Now if one or a few people say it, ok fine. But when I see people making the same sort of statements in different articles over and over again, where there is smoke there is fire, no?

Please, I have lived in Newark and no its not common for groups of men to walk up to a woman and fondle her as they please. Crime, shootings, car jackings, even **** sure. Eve teasing no. And its funny you pick one of the most dangerous cities in the country, when this problem in India is widespread covering the cities and the countryside.

and I dont pretend to know from articles. I also take the time to read the comments sections.

I once spent an afternoon reading of hundreds of comments from Times of India, Hindu Times etc. Comments of people actually living in india. it was very illuminating. I read complaints of how the court system is aj oke, the police are only there to protect the very wealthy and politicians are corrupt. There was a lot of vitriol it seemd towards sheila dixit and sonia ghandi and thier hypocracy towards women's issues, especially miss dixit's pardoning of apparent known rapists.

The newspapaer doesnt tell the whole story, but you can learn alot of what is really happening from the comments section. Now if one or a few people say it, ok fine. But when I see people making the same sort of statements in different articles over and over again, where there is smoke there is fire, no?

Hahaha, you are one of those who reads comments and makes inferences based on that limited data set. There goes the theory of statistics.

Based on your logic, the comments I read on CNN after the Newtown massacre would imply all Americans are heartless gun-trotting nut jobs.

I'm repeating this for the third time, in case you didn't see it - I never said there isn't a problem but reading newspapers will never give you the true story.

Put your money where you mouth is - walk late at night in Edison, Newark and let's know how you feel. You want to talk about safety in India then go visit. Don't sit here and preach based on some newspaper comments.

Hahaha, you are one of those who reads comments and makes inferences based on that limited data set. There goes the theory of statistics.

Based on your logic, the comments I read on CNN after the Newtown massacre would imply all Americans are heartless gun-trotting nut jobs.

I'm repeating this for the third time, in case you didn't see it - I never said there isn't a problem but reading newspapers will never give you the true story.

Put your money where you mouth is - walk late at night in Edison, Newark and let's know how you feel. You want to talk about safety in India then go visit. Don't sit here and preach based on some newspaper comments.

Click to expand...

But america DOES have alot of people who go batshyt crazy at the thought of someone limiting their ability to own an ak 47 for recreation.

Thats not media spin, thats a fact of this country. A month after the newton shooting there were 500 deaths nationwide due to gun violence. Just last week alone 6 people were shot at gun shows. Some wackadoo spoke before congress said women need access to ak 47s for personal defense. I mean...what the heck is that???? I got into an argument with an acquaintance just last week who argued we needed unrestricted access to firearms in case we need to fight the government when anyone with sense can tell you the average person is no match for a well armed, well trained army with the latest satellite, drone and spy technology within easy access. But this guy was dead serious!

Gun culture is DEEPLY embedded in this country.

If I can admit that about the US why cant you admit that India has aproblem with the way it treats women?
US also has a terrible issue of **** in the military and **** when it comes to athletes.
the stuebenville ohio case is sickening.

LOL, I already told you I LIVED in newark, I dotn have a damn thing to prove.

but I can walk down the street without fear of being gang ra ped or eve teased.

In one week I read 10 different stories of women aged 5 yrs old to 45 being ra ped and/or gang ra ped, and in 3 of those cases the women(usually the young girls) were also killed.

What about the incident of the woman walking home and attacked in the streets by a mob of men while a news team taped the incident , this was last summer.

I suppose the random protests over the dehli case were imaginary too?

Click to expand...

losing virginity even before hitting 13, unprotected sex as early as in high school, usage of drugs, thousands of rapes which are solved outside the courts through monetary settlements (effectively nothing but costly prostitution) etc.. are all characteristics of a noble nation i guess.......

But america DOES have alot of people who go batshyt crazy at the thought of someone limiting their ability to own an ak 47 for recreation.

Thats not media spin, thats a fact of this country. A month after the newton shooting there were 500 deaths nationwide due to gun violence. Just last week alone 6 people were shot at gun shows. Some wackadoo spoke before congress said women need access to ak 47s for personal defense. I mean...what the heck is that????

Gun culture is DEEPLY embedded in this country.

If I can admit that about the US why cant you admit that India has aproblem with the way it treats women?

Click to expand...

I guess you really can't read, so I apologize. Go read my last comment above and I've highlighted relevant parts for your convenience.

And no, it is not OK stereotyping people, whether Americans or Indians. You want to talk about India, first go visit. Don't sit here and read some comments on websites and then preach to us.

losing virginity even before hitting 13, unprotected sex as early as in high school, usage of drugs, thousands of rapes which are solved outside the courts through monetary settlements (effectively nothing but costly prostitution) etc.. are all characteristics of a noble nation i guess.......

Click to expand...

yes, because Im sure you live in a magical land where no one has sex before marriage.

gsharma and SLD76, I grew up in India and spent the first 20 years of my life there, so for what it is worth, here is my perspective:

(a) In rural and urban sections of society, where the level of education is low, the situation of women is quite bad. There isn't much revolt because many people - men and women - think that the status quo is just how things have always been and will always be, and they, unfortunately, do not know of a different state of society.

(b) In the more educated families, the situation of women is better. However, deep-seated prejudices linger in many of us, some of them have been passed down unchallenged through the generations via religion, caste, etc. Blind acceptance of these deep-seated prejudices explain stupid utterances like "They should dress conservatively", "They should not go out at night", etc. Sometimes, as when a mother utters this to her child, it is out of genuine worry, but when a police chief claims this as a remedy for the situation, it is distressing to hear.

(c) It is unfortunate and shameful that it took a ghastly event like the one in Delhi to shake up the people's conscience. Even worse, I have been saddened by the response. Instead of carefully looking within ourselves, facing up to our cultural problems, and abandoning regressive and harmful aspects of it, the people have turned rage outward. The mob seems to have taken over, people ask for everything from public hangings to evisceration of the rapists. Unfortunately, making an example of someone by means of brutal punishment isn't the solution.

It is true that law enforcement is lacking, the police are callous, and the politicians are unconcerned. However, the problem is systemic and it will take a long, hard look at ourselves to address it. These are not just India's problems, and I guess, they exist in much of the developing (and some of the developed) world. SLD76, I wouldn't paint India with such a broad brush and say that it is not worth visiting. India is a country of mindboggling extremes of good and bad, and though I didn't realize it when I was growing up, it took several years of living in other (more homogeneous) parts of the world to understand that this is the case.

No a newspaper doesnt give a full story, but surely where there is smoke there is fire no? Surely people who live and work in the country can give you insight about whats going on, no?

And when you have a report saying India is the 4th most dangerous place in the world for women...surely there is something afoot???

Click to expand...

I don't have time to endlessly argue with you but you don't have any credibility on this issue. You want credibility, go visit India or STOP preaching.

India is the 4th most dangerous place for women? I guess India is more dangerous than Congo, Chad, Sudan or even Syria where **** is used as an instrument of power. That's four countries for you. So much for surveys.

I don't have time to endlessly argue with you but you don't have any credibility on this issue. You want credibility, go visit India or STOP preaching.

India is the 4th most dangerous place for women? I guess India is more dangerous than Congo, Chad, Sudan or even Syria where **** is used as an instrument of power. That's four countries for you. So much for surveys.

Click to expand...

take it up with the group that did the survey.

And fine anything negative about india is media spin and conjecture, happy now?

One party has taken to giving women box cutters and red pepper powder to fend off sexual assaults because women arent safe walking the streets.

Is anyone really shocked at this?

As a woman, I dont care if you gave me the Taj Mahal, you couldnt pay me to visit India.

Again, no offense to Sentinel and Tushar.

Click to expand...

I think you are taking this too far.I do think our society is male dominated and we are still striving for gender equality.Change doesn't happen over night.New laws against **** will be passed in coming days.I have 3 sisters who walk their way to coachings and stuff and it's like they get eve-teased,I can assure you that atleast.

gsharma and SLD76, I grew up in India and spent the first 20 years of my life there, so for what it is worth, here is my perspective:

(a) In rural and urban sections of society, where the level of education is low, the situation of women is quite bad. There isn't much revolt because many people - men and women - think that the status quo is just how things have always been and will always be, and they, unfortunately, do not know of a different state of society.

(b) In the more educated families, the situation of women is better. However, deep-seated prejudices linger in many of us, some of them have been passed down unchallenged through the generations via religion, caste, etc. Blind acceptance of these deep-seated prejudices explain stupid utterances like "They should dress conservatively", "They should not go out at night", etc. Sometimes, as when a mother utters this to her child, it is out of genuine worry, but when a police chief claims this as a remedy for the situation, it is distressing to hear.

(c) Unfortunately, it took a ghastly event like the one in Delhi to shake up the people. Even worse, I have been saddened by the response. Instead of carefully looking within ourselves, facing up to our cultural problems, and abandoning regressive and harmful aspects of it, the people have turned rage outward. The mob seems to have taken over, people ask for everything from public hangings to evisceration of the rapists. Unfortunately, making an example of someone by means of brutal punishment isn't the solution.

It is true that law enforcement is lacking, the police are callous, and the politicians are unconcerned. However, the problem is systemic and it will take a hard look at ourselves to address it. These are not just India's problems, but I guess, they exist in much of the developing (and some of the developed) world.

Click to expand...

thank you for your honesty.

I agree completely with the bolded. We have a huge problem with frape in the military and we have a victim blaming mentality to a degree as well. Not universally speaking but it is not uncommon.

There is also a huge problem with athletes and **** in college. when you mix hormones, alcohol and entitlement, bad things are bound to happen.

ETA: the immediate response to the outrage may not be the most productive, but I think it was just a primal shout of generations of anger and frustration. Its people like you who can help take that energy and channel it to more positive directions.

I think you are taking this too far.I do think our society is male dominated and we are still striving for gender equality.Change doesn't happen over night.New laws against **** will be passed in coming days.I have 3 sisters who walk their way to coachings and stuff and it's like they get eve-teased,I can assure you that atleast.

Click to expand...

I didnt say I approve, but there was talk of one politician advocating giving box cutters and pepper spray. another has advocated armed citizens patrol the streets.

the problem so much is needing new laws I think but just, enforcing the laws already on the books.

the good thing is the problem is getting attention and people are not willing to turn a blind eye.

would that that attitude wouldl spread to regions of africa, asia and the USA.

but I can walk down the street without fear of being gang ra ped or eve teased.

In one week I read 10 different stories of women aged 5 yrs old to 45 being ra ped and/or gang ra ped, and in 3 of those cases the women(usually the young girls) were also killed.

What about the incident of the woman walking home and attacked in the streets by a mob of men while a news team taped the incident , this was last summer.

I suppose the random protests over the dehli case were imaginary too?

Click to expand...

There are about 90,000 r-pes a year reported in the US. 90% of the victims are women, 10% are men (approximate numbers). (and unfortunately collective assault is not an Indian specialty) 99% of the perpetrators are males. The real question is always: which stories the media choose to report and why. There is usually an agenda behind that decision. (no doubt the Indian stories you mention are particularly gruesome and tragic in any case).

I didnt say I approve, but there was talk of one politician advocating giving box cutters and pepper spray. another has advocated armed citizens patrol the streets.

the problem so much is needing new laws I think but just, enforcing the laws already on the books.

the good thing is the problem is getting attention and people are not willing to turn a blind eye.

would that that attitude wouldl spread to regions of africa, asia and the USA.

Click to expand...

You are forgetting it's India,politicians here will do anything to gain political mileage over there rivals.I don't even pay attention to what they say.

Just few days ago a MUSLIM politician spewed venom and said if Muslims in india get angry they will kill every hindu in sight, do you expect that to be taken seriously?

The problem lies with the people's mentality,the attitude toward girl child in india is appalling.People think girl as an unnecessary burden(more so in rural areas),and then you have the problem of dowry,it's some thing which has gone on for ages,you just can't change this things in a snap.

There are about 90,000 r-pes a year reported in the US. 90% of the victims are women, 10% are men (approximate numbers). (and unfortunately collective assault is not an Indian specialty) 99% of the perpetrators are males. The real question is always: which stories the media choose to report and why. There is usually an agenda behind that decision. (no doubt the Indian stories you mention are particularly gruesome and tragic in any case).

Click to expand...

USA has the highest CRIME RATE in the world.They have the highest number of rapes reported for any country.

Their feeble attempts at ameliorating the issue shows the reality of their consciousness.

Click to expand...

The problem which evidently exists in US too.And no one was ameliorating the issues.Do you see demonstrations,public rallies and parades of school children to show their protest as a sign of amelioration??

Fortunately we are not like those people who will come out swaying their guns and killing innocent children in schools..

USA has the highest CRIME RATE in the world.They have the highest number of rapes reported for any country.

Click to expand...

That's why American citizens have no business looking down on other countries when it comes to crimes (there was an elementary school massacre/shooting near where I live. Should my daughter stop going to school?). The annual r-pe # in India is about 20,000 (vs 90,000 in the US). Sure, it's not clear how many go unreported in either country and in India the stats are slightly on the rise (22,000) while they are declining in the US (down to about 85, 000), still, looking at those numbers, I don't think Americans should feel in a strong position to condescend to other nations. I guess it's a natural human reflex to believe one's own country is superior or better in many ways but every country has their problems and their "claim to shame".

That's why American citizens have no business looking down on other countries when it comes to crimes (there was an elementary school massacre/shooting near where I live. Should my daughter stop going to school?). The annual r-pe # in India is about 20,000 (vs 90,000 in the US). Sure, it's not clear how many go unreported in either country and in India the stats are slightly on the rise (22,000) while they are declining in the US (down to about 85, 000), still, looking at those numbers, I don't think Americans should feel in a strong position to condescend to other nations. I guess it's a natural human reflex to believe one's own country is superior or better in many ways but every country has their problems and their "claim to shame".

Click to expand...

i was having a similar argument against people from usa at tennis forum.......i wondered what's their interest with problems of other countries........they were so ignorant about india, i had to shove a lot of information up their asses........

One party has taken to giving women box cutters and red pepper powder to fend off sexual assaults because women arent safe walking the streets.

Is anyone really shocked at this?

As a woman, I dont care if you gave me the Taj Mahal, you couldnt pay me to visit India.

Again, no offense to Sentinel and Tushar.

Click to expand...

I understand your feelings. Situation is bad, but not ALL OVER India. Its kind of weird, in some places situation is horrible, where as in some other, its quite safe. Coming to the political system, its really corrupt, taking advantage of things like caste/religion etc for vote banks and all that. But the problems are totally expected when there is 18% of the world population in only 2-3% land area. And no doubt, India is Poor . That being said, you won't be able appreciate India till u live here. There is a great deal of spirituality here.
Just my 2 cents.

That's why American citizens have no business looking down on other countries when it comes to crimes (there was an elementary school massacre/shooting near where I live. Should my daughter stop going to school?). The annual r-pe # in India is about 20,000 (vs 90,000 in the US). Sure, it's not clear how many go unreported in either country and in India the stats are slightly on the rise (22,000) while they are declining in the US (down to about 85, 000), still, looking at those numbers, I don't think Americans should feel in a strong position to condescend to other nations. I guess it's a natural human reflex to believe one's own country is superior or better in many ways but every country has their problems and their "claim to shame".

Click to expand...

So true.India is a country with low levels of literacy so if a women is harassed she literally has no where to go,as she is unaware of her rights and laws.Where in US nearly every one is literate but being a rich country (per capita income is way higher than india) there is a deep sense of arrogance amongst(specially males) them which translates into so many rapes and other crimes.They can take drugs,booze,get unlimited access to porn and what not.

I understand your feelings. Situation is bad, but not ALL OVER India. Its kind of weird, in some places situation is horrible, where as in some other, its quite safe. Coming to the political system, its really corrupt, taking advantage of things like caste/religion etc for vote banks and all that. But the problems are totally expected when there is 18% of the world population in only 2-3% land area. And no doubt, India is Poor . That being said, you won't be able appreciate India till u live here. There is a great deal of spirituality here.
Just my 2 cents.

Click to expand...

The bolded part is no logic..Even Japan has the same population density as India have.

Why don't you try walking down the street in Newark at night and come back to me? I have lived in NJ so try fooling someone else.

I never said there isn't a problem. I said you can't pretend to know it like it really is sitting in your house reading foreign newspapers.

Or go ahead, continue doing that and take a walk in Newark, Edison etc. and let us know how safe you feel.

Click to expand...

Holy crap give it a rest. I'm mainly Indian and you couldn't pay me enough to visit. I've got relatives there, co-workers there, keep tabs on what's going on from my family there and it is far from civilized although it was one of the original birthplaces of civilization.

You are forgetting it's India,politicians here will do anything to gain political mileage over there rivals.I don't even pay attention to what they say.

Just few days ago a MUSLIM politician spewed venom and said if Muslims in india get angry they will kill every hindu in sight, do you expect that to be taken seriously?

The problem lies with the people's mentality, the attitude toward girl child in india is appalling. People think girl as an unnecessary burden(more so in rural areas),and then you have the problem of dowry,it's some thing which has gone on for ages,you just can't change this things in a snap.

Click to expand...

Agree. the bolded statement is the symptom of poverty. Too much development is needed.

The bolded part is no logic..Even Japan has the same population density as India have.

Click to expand...

Dont bring Japan. Its a big exception. A country BOMBED by US. Yet within few decades it their as the most advanced nation. A tsunami brings destruction but still they come back strong.
And what i meant was for having 18% population, u need RESOURCES, india doesnt have them ENOUGH, or far from enough.

Dont bring Japan. Its a big exception. A country BOMBED by US. Yet within few decades it their as the most advanced nation. A tsunami brings destruction but still they come back strong.
And what i meant was for having 18% population, u need RESOURCES, india doesnt have them ENOUGH, or far from enough.

Agree. the bolded statement is the symptom of poverty. Too much development is needed.

Click to expand...

Yes,we are poor,I am not denying that.Another logic fail.We have abundant resources.We are short of petroleum,but that's it.But then again countries who are rich in resources such as Saudi-Arabia and Russia ain't doing that that great.RESOURCES AND POVERTY AIN'T RELATED.Hiding behind it and making excuses won't change the fact that here politicians are ****ing corrupt

i was having a similar argument against people from usa at tennis forum.......i wondered what's their interest with problems of other countries........they were so ignorant about india, i had to shove a lot of information up their asses........

Click to expand...

It's all about ideology. There is an enemy out there: be it foreigners, communists or islamists. Whatever it is, it's coming at you and it's evil. While people spend massive amount of energy dreading and hating on the designated enemies, they spend less energy questioning the corruption in their own country. In the meantime, there is a lot of oversimplification, misinformation and disinformation going on. But no doubt that overall, it works. It is easier to criticize others (that you don't know much about to begin with) than one's own people or one's own reponsibility with stuff that goes wrong in the world (never any shortage of that unfortunately).

Yes,we are poor,I am not denying that.Another logic fail.We have abundant resources.We are short of petroleum,but that's it.But then again countries who are rich in resources such as Saudi-Arabia and Russia ain't doing that that great.RESOURCES AND POVERTY AIN'T RELATED.Hiding behind it and making excuses won't change the fact that here politicians are ****ing corrupt

Click to expand...

Oh man. You think politicians of other countries are not corrupt. Do u think its easy to provide enough food for all Indians which is 18% of the world. Their is not enough food. The country is Agriculture based, without the technology which makes the agriculture highly efficient. How are you going to feed every Indian. The 1.26 billion people. Do u have enough food? And what makes you say RESOURCES AND POVERTY AIN'T RELATED?

It's all about ideology. There is an enemy out there: be it foreigners, communists or islamists. Whatever it is, it's coming at you and it's evil. While people spend massive amount of energy dreading and hating on the designated enemies, they spend less energy questioning the corruption in their own country. In the meantime, there is a lot of oversimplification, misinformation and disinformation going on. But no doubt that overall, it works. It is easier to criticize others (that you don't know much about to begin with) than one's own people or one's own reponsibility with stuff that goes wrong in the world (never any shortage of that unfortunately).

Oh man. You think politicians of other countries are not corrupt. Do u think its easy to provide enough food for all Indians which is 18% of the world. Their is not enough food too. The country is Agriculture based, without the technology which makes the agriculture highly efficient. How are you going to feed every Indian. The 1.26 bili\lion people. Do u have enough food? And what makes you say RESOURCES AND POVERTY AIN'T RELATED?

Click to expand...

ill deal with u later with some hard facts..gotta sleep..Rafa in waiting vamos..I just want to say that i look at people as an ASSETS,not a BURDEN..more people more Assets..