Examples of how to move up in the US class system in potentially a single, sometimes immediate step. Moving down is even easier as it only requires you to lose your income and/or fame.

Those are some far fetched examples, besides college graduate which lets be honest gets you jack in today's world. Practically everybody's a college graduate, and not everybody can be above middle class. There are not enough jobs in today's world for the American dream to work for even a majority of citizens anymore, and technological advances and population growth are only making that more and more of a truth.

Far fetched? There are more than 17,000 professional athletes in America across just about every sport imaginable. The lottery is played by millions of people in every state that offers one and there are 3-4 BIG winners every single day. There are 165,000+ members of the Screen Actors Guild. There are over 600,00 board certified doctors and over 1 million ABA licensed lawyers, just 2 professions which require college.

What's far fetched is the argument that you cannot do something to move up the socioeconomic ladder in America. It is done every day by people all over the country.

Are these examples all available to everyone? Of course not. Some people lack the requisite talent, skill, or intelligence to fall into one or all of those categories. Their lack of ability, however, does not negate the existence of the means.

There are hundreds of millions of people in america. I'm in law school, and just because I and all my classmates are going to be licensed definitely doesn't mean we'll be able to find jobs because the legal market is drying up due to technological advancements. My friends from college were film majors, and employed some SAG actors who were willing to spend entire weekends working for free in their independent films. Just because you put in the time and effort doesn't mean you even have a good chance of getting out of the mountain of debt it took to get you there. Law school costs about $120K on top of whatever you paid for college. Do you know how many attorneys actually make 6 figures coming out of school, which even then would only give them a shot a getting out of debt in maybe ten years? It's not even close to a majority.

Listen, the American dream is great and all, but it doesn't work out for the vast majority of people in this country. Most of the hardest working folks are stuck. That's the way it is. The means exist, but only for the very, very select few.---GT: Cornbread4life

#42Cornbread4lifePosted 12/31/2013 11:00:41 PM

auntfafajk posted...

Cornbread4life posted...

auntfafajk posted...

I'm sorry, you must be part of the generation that believes people have a right to live even if they just want to coast by on the virtue of others. You honestly believe that it is justifiable when a government steals from people to fund wasteful social programs to help many who would otherwise help themselves. That makes a lot of sense.

Tell that to people who work two minimum wage jobs 60 hours a week and still don't meet cost of living. I don't know if you live under a rock or an ivory tower, but your real estate doesn't make you intelligent.

Right, so stealing is okay. Besides, the reason that is the case is because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of the social nanny state. You punish those that drive the economy, the men of the mind. After you have sucked the life out of them there is no one to provide good jobs so all you have is crappy Mcdonalds jobs. It is called rational self interest, and it works. When you take away work incentive you take away jobs.

Again, you can rationalize it however you want but it is not okay to steal from people.

Who said anything about stealing? You're just a nutjob. Where's the incentive to work when the minimum wage doesn't even pay your rent? And the "men of the mind" were the men of last generation, now they're all crooks and trust fund babies. They have all the money in the world and still don't create jobs, so how is it efficient to let them sit on it and do nothing? There's no stimulus in the economy unless money is in the hands of people who are going to use it within the majority. Rich people cycling money back and forth with other rich people does nothing. If the world worked the way you wanted it, we'd be back to having a class of nobility and 90% of the population would be homeless.---GT: Cornbread4life

Examples of how to move up in the US class system in potentially a single, sometimes immediate step. Moving down is even easier as it only requires you to lose your income and/or fame.

Those are some far fetched examples, besides college graduate which lets be honest gets you jack in today's world. Practically everybody's a college graduate, and not everybody can be above middle class. There are not enough jobs in today's world for the American dream to work for even a majority of citizens anymore, and technological advances and population growth are only making that more and more of a truth.

Far fetched? There are more than 17,000 professional athletes in America across just about every sport imaginable. The lottery is played by millions of people in every state that offers one and there are 3-4 BIG winners every single day. There are 165,000+ members of the Screen Actors Guild. There are over 600,00 board certified doctors and over 1 million ABA licensed lawyers, just 2 professions which require college.

What's far fetched is the argument that you cannot do something to move up the socioeconomic ladder in America. It is done every day by people all over the country.

Are these examples all available to everyone? Of course not. Some people lack the requisite talent, skill, or intelligence to fall into one or all of those categories. Their lack of ability, however, does not negate the existence of the means.

There are hundreds of millions of people in america. I'm in law school, and just because I and all my classmates are going to be licensed definitely doesn't mean we'll be able to find jobs because the legal market is drying up due to technological advancements. My friends from college were film majors, and employed some SAG actors who were willing to spend entire weekends working for free in their independent films. Just because you put in the time and effort doesn't mean you even have a good chance of getting out of the mountain of debt it took to get you there. Law school costs about $120K on top of whatever you paid for college. Do you know how many attorneys actually make 6 figures coming out of school, which even then would only give them a shot a getting out of debt in maybe ten years? It's not even close to a majority.

Listen, the American dream is great and all, but it doesn't work out for the vast majority of people in this country. Most of the hardest working folks are stuck. That's the way it is. The means exist, but only for the very, very select few.

Apparently we agree that it is possible. Your opposition is with the likelihood of those scenarios. I never said that it was easy or common to change class. I said it was possible. You said that too.

Why the continued challenges to a point you agree with in theory? Because it may not be practical in its application for every American? No one said it was, but you decided to argue that point nonetheless.---You can put icing on a turd, but that doesn't make it a cupcake!

#44auntfafajkPosted 1/1/2014 2:29:41 AM

Cornbread4life posted...

auntfafajk posted...

Cornbread4life posted...

auntfafajk posted...

I'm sorry, you must be part of the generation that believes people have a right to live even if they just want to coast by on the virtue of others. You honestly believe that it is justifiable when a government steals from people to fund wasteful social programs to help many who would otherwise help themselves. That makes a lot of sense.

Tell that to people who work two minimum wage jobs 60 hours a week and still don't meet cost of living. I don't know if you live under a rock or an ivory tower, but your real estate doesn't make you intelligent.

Right, so stealing is okay. Besides, the reason that is the case is because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of the social nanny state. You punish those that drive the economy, the men of the mind. After you have sucked the life out of them there is no one to provide good jobs so all you have is crappy Mcdonalds jobs. It is called rational self interest, and it works. When you take away work incentive you take away jobs.

Again, you can rationalize it however you want but it is not okay to steal from people.

Who said anything about stealing? You're just a nutjob. Where's the incentive to work when the minimum wage doesn't even pay your rent? And the "men of the mind" were the men of last generation, now they're all crooks and trust fund babies. They have all the money in the world and still don't create jobs, so how is it efficient to let them sit on it and do nothing? There's no stimulus in the economy unless money is in the hands of people who are going to use it within the majority. Rich people cycling money back and forth with other rich people does nothing. If the world worked the way you wanted it, we'd be back to having a class of nobility and 90% of the population would be homeless.

First off it really hurts your argument when you call someone a nut job. It is kind of petty. As I have said, the minimum wage debacle is a byproduct of the social state utopian lie that you cling to. I don't know what to do about trust fund babies, whether they should have the money or not, but since it was the wish of their parents that they have it I see no way ethically that one could interfere with it, unless they had absolutely no grasp on morality in the slightest. Wealth disparity is not a bad thing. When the market is free from government tyranny disparity is created, but all social classes are better off. As for why it is stealing? What would you do if someone bigger and stronger than you came up to you and demanded 30% of your paycheck to feed people that could feed themselves if they had the drive, or maybe you just don't know the people and don't want to give them your hard earned money? If that person then took it from you under threat of violence, what would you call it? It is stealing. There is no argument to be made against this.---I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Examples of how to move up in the US class system in potentially a single, sometimes immediate step. Moving down is even easier as it only requires you to lose your income and/or fame.

Those are some far fetched examples, besides college graduate which lets be honest gets you jack in today's world. Practically everybody's a college graduate, and not everybody can be above middle class. There are not enough jobs in today's world for the American dream to work for even a majority of citizens anymore, and technological advances and population growth are only making that more and more of a truth.

Far fetched? There are more than 17,000 professional athletes in America across just about every sport imaginable. The lottery is played by millions of people in every state that offers one and there are 3-4 BIG winners every single day. There are 165,000+ members of the Screen Actors Guild. There are over 600,00 board certified doctors and over 1 million ABA licensed lawyers, just 2 professions which require college.

What's far fetched is the argument that you cannot do something to move up the socioeconomic ladder in America. It is done every day by people all over the country.

Are these examples all available to everyone? Of course not. Some people lack the requisite talent, skill, or intelligence to fall into one or all of those categories. Their lack of ability, however, does not negate the existence of the means.

There are hundreds of millions of people in america. I'm in law school, and just because I and all my classmates are going to be licensed definitely doesn't mean we'll be able to find jobs because the legal market is drying up due to technological advancements. My friends from college were film majors, and employed some SAG actors who were willing to spend entire weekends working for free in their independent films. Just because you put in the time and effort doesn't mean you even have a good chance of getting out of the mountain of debt it took to get you there. Law school costs about $120K on top of whatever you paid for college. Do you know how many attorneys actually make 6 figures coming out of school, which even then would only give them a shot a getting out of debt in maybe ten years? It's not even close to a majority.

Listen, the American dream is great and all, but it doesn't work out for the vast majority of people in this country. Most of the hardest working folks are stuck. That's the way it is. The means exist, but only for the very, very select few.

The American dream is fading because we are moving to a socialized economy.---I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine. Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged