Dad is 16.1 hands and dam is 14.2... He is Solar Flair Eclat bred on 3 of his four lines and solar flair was a 17 hand appy (extreme outlier) His legs were as long as his dams at birth so We are guessing he will be more like dad. Neither parents have squatty necks and as he has been weaned it doesnt look short anymore. No hernia. Just the spot illusion :)

Can I turn the question back on you? I see on your web site that you are already saying that he will be standing to limited mares in 2014, how do you know at this age that he will make the grade as a stallion?

He obviously hasn't got any show record of his own yet, it is very hard to judge babies so other than his pedigree and his color there is nothing else to judge, and I'm sure that nobody breeds just on those two criteria.

I'd appreciate any help as how to spot so much potential in one so young

Can I turn the question back on you? I see on your web site that you are already saying that he will be standing to limited mares in 2014, how do you know at this age that he will make the grade as a stallion?

He obviously hasn't got any show record of his own yet, it is very hard to judge babies so other than his pedigree and his color there is nothing else to judge, and I'm sure that nobody breeds just on those two criteria.

I'd appreciate any help as how to spot so much potential in one so young

In my personal experience (in my horses) what you see the first week they are born is 99% of the time what you will see as an adult in angles. Shoulder angles and legs. Than they go to a wonky stage where I don't like to really assess them much again until they hit two.. than again at three. Even though really im dying because as they grow and mature they will be butt high.. and legs will be going all over the place :)

Temperment is a HUGE thing for me. All of my horses have sound solid temperments. Even my stallion can be handled by children. Why? Because I would never keep an animal a stallion if he couldnt no matter how beautiful he was. Temperment IS inherited.

I don't know how many people here are into appys. Im sure more are into other breeds but if anyone knows what is and has been going on in ApHC for sometime now you would know that nearly every "Appaloosa" you see .. you'd be hard pressed to find any ACTUAL appaloosas in their pedigree... Example: This horse has several titleholders in the ApHC... but look at his pedigree? See the horses that say "appaloosa" look at what their parents are.. and so on and so on.Chocolatey Appaloosa

ApHC has effectively been allowing breeding the appaloosa out of the appaloosa. They are a breed. Not a color pattern. There is a VERY small percentage of appaloosas that have more than 3 generations of solid appyx appy breeding. And there are only a few farms right now producing appys with 5 generation and 6 generation appys. I believe it is stated scientifically it takes 9 or 10 generations to constitude a purebred... so in that thought. There are NO purebred appaloosas in the world today. That have 9 generations of solid appyxappy breeding.

This is flairs pedigree. For anyone who was interested. He is a 100% FPD appaloosa as per ApHC guidelines which requires he has 4 generations with nothing but appaloosas.

At this point he has the temperment, the conformation and most importantly the pedigree to be a breeding stallion.

Show records? Have any of you been to breed shows? It is a display of who has the most money to hire the best trainer to show their horse so they can secure a win. If flashing money to sway a judges placement on a horse regardless of type or ability is what qualifies a horse to be a great representative of his breed that is not what Im interested in.

My horses need to be versitile, have good conformation, and good temperments. The majority of horse owners want a horse that can be a great family addition and who is willing to work and is sane and solid in temperment.

If they are looking for horses with show records to qualify that they have a good animal than they wont be looking at my farm :)

I don't know how many people here are into appys. Im sure more are into other breeds but if anyone knows what is and has been going on in ApHC for sometime now you would know that nearly every "Appaloosa" you see .. you'd be hard pressed to find any ACTUAL appaloosas in their pedigree... Example: This horse has several titleholders in the ApHC... but look at his pedigree? See the horses that say "appaloosa" look at what their parents are.. and so on and so on.Chocolatey Appaloosa

ApHC has effectively been allowing breeding the appaloosa out of the appaloosa. They are a breed. Not a color pattern. There is a VERY small percentage of appaloosas that have more than 3 generations of solid appyx appy breeding. And there are only a few farms right now producing appys with 5 generation and 6 generation appys. I believe it is stated scientifically it takes 9 or 10 generations to constitude a purebred... so in that thought. There are NO purebred appaloosas in the world today. That have 9 generations of solid appyxappy breeding.

We've been through this before, but you'd be hard-pressed to find an actual Appaloosa, anywhere. Why? Because the breed was recreated from colored stock, only. Initially, in the early days of the ApHC and the Appaloosa "breed" as a whole, that was the only requirement. There was some consideration given to type, but not bloodline, and there is wide variance when looking at "foundation" Appaloosas. No consistency at all. They certainly aren't the same as the horses the Nez Perce were breeding, nor are they the same as the spotted Spanish stock. To say that outcrossing to AQHA ruined the breed is to ignore the fact that there was never a breed to begin with, and that outcrossing was allowed from the very beginning. The first registered ApHC horses weren't purebred Appaloosa. There is no such thing as a purebred Appaloosa....now, or then.

That said, I do have a lot of experience with highly foundation-bred ApHC Apps and foundation/Arab crosses. Nice horses, but not exactly the epitome of versatility that's supposed to characterize the breed. And again, nothing resembling the supposed origins of the American Appaloosa. Despite extremely limited QH blood, they resembled colored QH's more than anything else.

Quote:

Show records? Have any of you been to breed shows? It is a display of who has the most money to hire the best trainer to show their horse so they can secure a win. If flashing money to sway a judges placement on a horse regardless of type or ability is what qualifies a horse to be a great representative of his breed that is not what Im interested in.

It depends on the event. If I am interested in showing my horse, I definitely want its ancestors to have had winning show records. Bloodlines absolutely do matter when breeding for certain events. If I want a sound, sane horse, placings in speed events (no politics there) and trail type classes mean a whole lot. Or if I want a really good trail horse I can ride all day, I'd love to see endurance records (again, that has nothing to do with money or prestige). If I want a horse to work cattle, he **** sure better have a cowy background, and that carries a lot more merit if he has points in team penning/sorting, cutting, working cowhorse, etc. If a horse has not competed against other horses, it's difficult to objectively evaluate how it would perform against its peers.

Quote:

See, to me this horse has pretty blech conformation. He's built to overreach, with a weaker back, and short/thick/upright/bull/ewe neck. With his lean composition, I could see him having good endurance, but he sure doesn't look like any kind of athlete (or fancy mover). What has he done, or what is he famous for?

We've been through this before, but you'd be hard-pressed to find an actual Appaloosa, anywhere. Why? Because the breed was recreated from colored stock, only. Initially, in the early days of the ApHC and the Appaloosa "breed" as a whole, that was the only requirement. There was some consideration given to type, but not bloodline, and there is wide variance when looking at "foundation" Appaloosas. No consistency at all. They certainly aren't the same as the horses the Nez Perce were breeding, nor are they the same as the spotted Spanish stock. To say that outcrossing to AQHA ruined the breed is to ignore the fact that there was never a breed to begin with, and that outcrossing was allowed from the very beginning. The first registered ApHC horses weren't purebred Appaloosa. There is no such thing as a purebred Appaloosa....now, or then.

I agree. However, the ApHC was started to scrouge whatever they could to bring back the breed. The studbooks should of been closed after they had a diverse enough number of horses to breed in a closed studbook. It was never closed however. So how can they expect to preserve a breed when they allow you to bring in any QH, Arabian, or TB? You can never expect to have a breed if you keep allowing it. I was very sad watching the national show this year to see 90% of the horses being plain... brown.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba13

That said, I do have a lot of experience with highly foundation-bred ApHC Apps and foundation/Arab crosses. Nice horses, but not exactly the epitome of versatility that's supposed to characterize the breed. And again, nothing resembling the supposed origins of the American Appaloosa. Despite extremely limited QH blood, they resembled colored QH's more than anything else.

A lot of stock horses resemble QHs. Its a type that was used on ranches. QH was used extensively along with TB and Arabian.. to bring back the breed. WHen you think of versatility. You think of a horse that can excel in several areas. English, western, trail, endurance etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba13

It depends on the event. If I am interested in showing my horse, I definitely want its ancestors to have had winning show records. Bloodlines absolutely do matter when breeding for certain events. If I want a sound, sane horse, placings in speed events (no politics there) and trail type classes mean a whole lot. Or if I want a really good trail horse I can ride all day, I'd love to see endurance records (again, that has nothing to do with money or prestige). If I want a horse to work cattle, he **** sure better have a cowy background, and that carries a lot more merit if he has points in team penning/sorting, cutting, working cowhorse, etc. If a horse has not competed against other horses, it's difficult to objectively evaluate how it would perform against its peers.

I totally agree with you there. My personal horses are suited for all round horses. Suitable for Trail, endurance, and the all around 4H, open horse. Several of my horses were shown by me growing up and in adulthood and were always in ribbons in not just one type (english vs western) of competition. I do not compete at the breed level and show for personal enjoyment. Several of my mares have competed in competitive trail rides though because of their age are now not suited for doing 17+ mile rides. I've got a couple of youngsters that have a few more years before I can start competing again in endurance type events. To raise a horse from birth and train it in endurance takes 5+ years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bubba13

See, to me this horse has pretty blech conformation. He's built to overreach, with a weaker back, and short/thick/upright/bull/ewe neck. With his lean composition, I could see him having good endurance, but he sure doesn't look like any kind of athlete (or fancy mover). What has he done, or what is he famous for?

This horse was born in 1982. He is mainly famous for his size at 17 hands. And his loud leopard color. :) Frank Scripter bred leopards for many years thinking that with enough generations of lpxlp breedings that you would get higher % of leopard babies.

We now know that a lpxlp breeding will consistantly produce 25% fewspot, 50% leopards, and 25% solid NC horses.

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