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Which is not this game. Like Milt said, sit in a raid and start farming rank without any skill, Kb titles will soon be nothing, i should insert something about balance but everyone knows about that. Its a fight zone without trophies, and the thrill of victory doesnt come too often because of number/balance issues

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to single out Volo, I merely wanted to respond to him since he started the thread. My overall point is exactly what I said: it's all relative. I would classify very few people on this server as "pure". I see easymode just about everywhere and there is no doubt people see easymode in me. The point is, the deeds and titles are already trashed and meaningless. I watched a burg on this server sit in the middle of a freep zerg during the CJ stun period and get 90% of his rank stunning hapless reavers in charge. A well known BA that has come back recently still plays exactly how he did the day he started and the way he always has: from the very back until everything is "all clear to zerg". Just examples that occur to me now. Then there's the farming, the cheating, the flipping, etc., etc. None of this has anything to do with Turbine BTW, it's just what it's always been: the players control the game.

Seriously, do any of you people really care about deeds/rank/titles anymore? Play for fun or whatever primal reason you play but give it a rest on the "accomplishment" and "skill" stuff. It's worthless, no one cares and in a few years, no one will even remember (not even you).

Just to clarify, I didn't mean to single out Volo, I merely wanted to respond to him since he started the thread. My overall point is exactly what I said: it's all relative. I would classify very few people on this server as "pure". I see easymode just about everywhere and there is no doubt people see easymode in me. The point is, the deeds and titles are already trashed and meaningless. I watched a burg on this server sit in the middle of a freep zerg during the CJ stun period and get 90% of his rank stunning hapless reavers in charge. A well known BA that has come back recently still plays exactly how he did the day he started and the way he always has: from the very back until everything is "all clear to zerg". Just examples that occur to me now. Then there's the farming, the cheating, the flipping, etc., etc. None of this has anything to do with Turbine BTW, it's just what it's always been: the players control the game.

Seriously, do any of you people really care about deeds/rank/titles anymore? Play for fun or whatever primal reason you play but give it a rest on the "accomplishment" and "skill" stuff. It's worthless, no one cares and in a few years, no one will even remember (not even you).

I think that's what it all comes down to. CJ on reavers in charge was a fun era, no doubt. Perhaps, this update is throwing a hint that a lot of pvpers should give it a rest with the accomplishments, deeds,etc. and find alternatives. It's a tough pill to swallow, like some have mentioned.

I think that's what it all comes down to. CJ on reavers in charge was a fun era, no doubt. Perhaps, this update is throwing a hint that a lot of pvpers should give it a rest with the accomplishments, deeds,etc. and find alternatives. It's a tough pill to swallow, like some have mentioned.

just ask the dev to close this thread, Volo, and lets all wait together for ESO.

(im also trying out NeverWinter while i wait, it's pretty good. Lore aside, it's a better game PvE and PvP)

Seriously, do any of you people really care about deeds/rank/titles anymore? Play for fun or whatever primal reason you play but give it a rest on the "accomplishment" and "skill" stuff. It's worthless, no one cares and in a few years, no one will even remember (not even you).

Achievement feels great. We all like to get results, make a difference, do things that make us proud. Amiright?

Nobody will remember in a few years, nobody will remember anything we do in a few years, so whatever, yano? Mortalz man, why do anything?

While I do agree with you that PvP should be it's own reward I. E. that you should do it because it's fun. Many people don't see it that way, they want progression. Taking away earning KB's, titles etc. takes away meaningful progression. They diminished, arguably, the best and hardest to earn titles in the game. Maybe your lack of time PvPing, councilmen, blinds you to that fact.

GW2's WvWvW had literally no progression, it was only for fun. Guess what? They added titles and ranks, hence progression, and it's basically exactly like LOTRO's, you get credit for everyone that dies just for doing damage (you do get badges for doing the most damage, or being the one that actually "downed" the players, there are no KB's in GW2, but that's been part of the game since launch). The difference? GW2 added something, LOTRO took something away.

If LOTRO was like that from the start we wouldn't be having this argument. People don't like having things taken away. And turbine continues to shoot themselves in the foot with every single update. Just pull the plug already

I am not against progression and I really haven't made a comment on the recent changes. I'm frankly indifferent to them; I am not trying to diminish anyone's concern for deeds, etc., but I do think that fun and engaging gameplay should be a greater incentive to pvp. My main concern is that I would like to see more balance and improved gameplay mechanics in our pvp. Without that, I don't see how progression can be meaningful. I'm surprised that this is such a radical opinion in these forums.

As for my lack of time pvp-ing (and I hardly think I need to defend myself against someone who has quite vocally left the PvMP scene) I don't have to have the highest ranked minstrel on the server to form an opinion and listen to others' opinions. I play for fun and there isn't exactly a huge learning curve to see how it is out there.

I am not against progression and I really haven't made a comment on the recent changes. I'm frankly indifferent to them; I am not trying to diminish anyone's concern for deeds, etc., but I do think that fun and engaging gameplay should be a greater incentive to pvp. My main concern is that I would like to see more balance and improved gameplay mechanics in our pvp. Without that, I don't see how progression can be meaningful. I'm surprised that this is such a radical opinion in these forums.

As for my lack of time pvp-ing (and I hardly think I need to defend myself against someone who has quite vocally left the PvMP scene) I don't have to have the highest ranked minstrel on the server to form an opinion and listen to others' opinions. I play for fun and there isn't exactly a huge learning curve to see how it is out there.

I am not against progression and I really haven't made a comment on the recent changes. I'm frankly indifferent to them; I am not trying to diminish anyone's concern for deeds, etc., but I do think that fun and engaging gameplay should be a greater incentive to pvp. My main concern is that I would like to see more balance and improved gameplay mechanics in our pvp. Without that, I don't see how progression can be meaningful. I'm surprised that this is such a radical opinion in these forums.

As for my lack of time pvp-ing (and I hardly think I need to defend myself against someone who has quite vocally left the PvMP scene) I don't have to have the highest ranked minstrel on the server to form an opinion and listen to others' opinions. I play for fun and there isn't exactly a huge learning curve to see how it is out there.

Here's something you need to learn about turbine. They don't give a ???? about PvP. They don't care if it's fun, engaging, or balanced, all they care about now, and this goes for every aspect of the game, is how much money they can wring out of the rubes before the whole shooting match goes up in flames.

The issue the OP brought up is that progression, meaningful or otherwise, has been diminished, how can you not see that?.

You obviously didn't play Creep before the store or you wouldn't be making foolish statements about learning curves.

As for me vocally leaving the PvP scene. I was here long before you and I'll be here long after you're gone, I purchased a lifetime acct. and I will continue posting my opinions until they pull the plug on this pig (which probably isn't that far away).

Last edited by Gladgilrian; Jun 02 2013 at 08:16 AM.

[center][color=red]Now roaming the earth searching for a fun, interesting game.......again.[/color][/center]

Here's something you need to learn about turbine. They don't give a ???? about PvP. They don't care if it's fun, engaging, or balanced, all they care about now, and this goes for every aspect of the game, is how much money they can wring out of the rubes before the whole shooting match goes up in flames.

The issue the OP brought up is that progression, meaningful or otherwise, has been diminished, how can you not see that?.

You obviously didn't play Creep before the store or you wouldn't be making foolish statements about learning curves.

As for me vocally leaving the PvP scene. I was here long before you and I'll be here long after you're gone, I purchased a lifetime acct. and I will continue posting my opinions until they pull the plug on this pig (which probably isn't that far away).

I'm not denying that the progression markers as they were have been diminished; I am only commenting that there are other reasons to pvp and that for me at least the stats/deeds are secondary. Taking a phenomenal amount of time to progress a character is not a learning curve. It's just a grind.

You weren't here that long before me and I also purchased a lifetime account... not that this is relevant to the topic at hand. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make about posting your opinions. Good on you, I guess. Keep on posting on for as long as it amuses you.

So as a council member, are you going to only give turbine your opinions or are you going to represent the opinions of our server? I mean you are supposed to consider the opinions of others and raise the awareness of all opinions in a council, are you not?

So as a council member, are you going to only give turbine your opinions or are you going to represent the opinions of our server? I mean you are supposed to consider the opinions of others and raise the awareness of all opinions in a council, are you not?

Seems he already took a position, hes taking a stance in the "Don't give a &&&&, I'm almighty". Anyways, LOTRO will end up dying like all other games, difference is they tried to make the comunity more involve. Problem: They seem to have choosen people who don't really care about the game or general opinion.

Well.....

The statement that awards and ranks are not the only reason people PvP seems pretty accurate and harmless to me. I PvP for fun. Progression, however it is measured, is important, but it it is absolutely not the only reason I PvP. So I am not sure Hapili is off the mark here.

The statement that awards and ranks are not the only reason people PvP seems pretty accurate and harmless to me. I PvP for fun. Progression, however it is measured, is important, but it it is absolutely not the only reason I PvP. So I am not sure Hapili is off the mark here.

Yes, I recall you pvping specifically for the HIGH WARDEN rank title back when you were first starting out. It appealed to you so much that it was all you cared about. Yes, let's all declare we pvp for fun.

Aww.... Come on now!

You mean my overboard statements about how High Warden was the coolest title in the game and how when other people get High Warden I try to make some type of humorous (to me at least) comment about it was not clearly a joke? (I'm a warden, get it?). Well, I tried. Tried to be fun and funny, which perhaps didn't hit home with everyone I guess, but it is in keeping with why I PvP. And why I play LOTRO, for that matter. To have fun.

You mean my overboard statements about how High Warden was the coolest title in the game and how when other people get High Warden I try to make some type of humorous (to me at least) comment about it was not clearly a joke? (I'm a warden, get it?). Well, I tried. Tried to be fun and funny, which perhaps didn't hit home with everyone I guess, but it is in keeping with why I PvP. And why I play LOTRO, for that matter. To have fun.

The spectacle is sure amusing, I'm not denying it. What you also cannot deny is that you did, in fact, pursued it and made it the focal point of pvp for a time. The question of having fun while obtaining the final result is in a different bracket. The discussion is mainly on accomplishment, competitiveness,results and it's trivialized form in this update.

My point is actually the following: everyone has goals when they first come out or further down the road. You can't simply deny that and cover it by using the fun argument. Obtaining that result to reach the goal becomes the reason you pvp. It's simple as that. Perhaps later on after reaching the goal, you just have fun shooting s*** with buds in the moors and that is awesome.

Some may want the jewellery or 2nd ages of rank 10 and ever first ages at rank 13 now?. I bet that's the reason farmers did what they did, on top of audacity of course.

Anyway, the rant is actually endless, but we can at least agree that discrediting people who have goals in the game is unfair. Can we not?

We can definitely agree to that, Volo. The trolling that goes on in game and in the forums is a bit immature, but sadly is part of the environment. As you say, discrediting someone for having goals in the game, or for having a different opinion than someone else is unfair among other things.

I do support Hapili's assertion that people PvP for different reasons and not just for rank and deeds. When I was closing in on High Warden (still a very cool title), it was not the focal point of my PvP nor all I cared about. Having fun was, and going for the title was part of that, but not all of it for sure. Each battle/encounter in itself was fun - doing my best to not die, hang on as long as I could, defeat my opponent, contribute to the group, etc. I am not denying anything or covering the role that goals play with the "fun argument". But I am saying that for some folks, myself included, fun is top priority and if achieving a title or deed can only be done by doing something that isn't enjoyable and makes me unhappy, I'll pass.

Volo, I would stop wasting your time arguing a point that none of these people can relate to, they just don't get it. Well, I get it, they were mostly deeds and titles that they would never see and now they will. I would be happy with the change too if I were them. Just more of the dumbing down of LOTRO. More of the Murican way of every body gets a trophy just for showing up.

Last edited by Gladgilrian; Jun 05 2013 at 08:40 PM.

[center][color=red]Now roaming the earth searching for a fun, interesting game.......again.[/color][/center]

As a Cappy, primarily solo at that, I have zero expectations regarding KB titles or deeds. I did use KB to deaths ratio as an indicator of my aggressiveness. I prefer a 1 to 1 ratio. If my deaths start climbing way above my KB's, I'm being a little suicidal. If my KB's climb above my deaths I'm being a puss.

I PvP to challenge myself and have fun. You know, try to kill stuff sometimes and sometimes stuff kills you.

If I was concerned about rank, KB's and fancy titles, I'd raid up all the time or play some easymode class like Mini or Spider

How much longer are people going to use that adage? The game has been released for 6 years 5+ of which pvp has existed. Just because it wasn't the original focus doesn't make it any less of an aspect of the game nor less deserving of attention. This is especially more relevant when you consider the sub and/or payment requirements gated to pvping at all. When you provide a paid service, you are responsible for making sure that service meets or exceeds your clients' expectations regardless of whether or not this service was part of the original fiber of your product.