Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

[ Edited ]

Where to start. After being hounded for 3 months to upgrade to UVerse Internet (at least one call every other day for 3 months) our business reluctantly went further into the lackluster future by upgrading in November. From our install date in mid-November through December (wow, a month and a half) our internet appeared to be fine. Overall not much faster at all like were were promised, but there was a slight increase, mainly in upload speeds. We upload files to our printer each week and where we were getting about 78Kbs speeds, it was increased to about 110Kbs. I was relatively pleased with it as up is up.

Starting January 2, our internet connections have been, at best, low grade with intermittent loss of speed throughout the day. As the house IT guy, I've had to bear complaints from just about everyone of our 23 employees. "I thought we upgraded", "I'm having trouble connecting", "Why is it so slow" and on and on. I've had to resort to telling them not to go with ATT for internet. Customer service always has been on the low end of acceptable. Which is why I've taken to these forums instead of getting shuffled around through the gawdaful phone support interface for an hour.

Now, just this week, a new problem has arisen. Every evening, anytime between around 4:30 p.m. and 7 p.m. the internet either drops or crawls at snails pace. In my first paragraph, I mentioned we were getting around 110Kbs upload speeds. Last night I stayed an hour later to upload our files at the antiquated, unacceptable rate of 23Kbs. This is the future of Uverse and ATT internet?

After reading through numerous posts with people having the same problem I couldn't help but laugh outloud and shake my head in disbelief. It appears the problem could be anything from light bulbs (not sure if I believe that one), to power surges by the city, to a bad modem, to cables, to surge protectors, to line filters and about 50 other shots in the dark. And mind you, all after giving in to the myriad of phone calls to upgrade to a new, better internet. Ha! Also after searching I can only expect that this problem would persist forever until I either buy a new modem, line filters, cables, have tech people come out numerous times and try to replace everything, etc… I would guess ATT would cover all those costs, but I would also guess that I could be wrong about that.

So, after enough ranting on my end. I'd like to ask a few questions to try to improve my situation. I will start by saying that we have the Elite package. Doing a speed test last night during the problems and before this message, here are the results.

TODAY - 1st Test Upload Speed - .57 Mbps Download Speed - 2.87 Mbps

TODAY - 2nd Test Upload Speed - .70 Mbps Download Speed - 6.78 Mbps

LAST NIGHT - Upload Speed - .3 Mbps Download Speed - 4.20 Mbps

Questions:

1. The obvious, what is going on?

2. I've read about installing line filters on all of our phone lines. We do have around 20 phones and a fax machine. Before I buy all of those, potentially throwing money out the window, I ask: Is that really necessary? If it is necessary, why did it work fine for a month and a half? How much do they cost and where's the best place to get them? Does it have to be through ATT?

3. Why, if those are necessary, didn't anyone ever mention that at any point in the process of getting UVerse Internet? Shouldn't the installer have brought those out and told me I'd need to use them? Even if he was selling them out of his brief case like a rolex salesman in New York.

4. I've been trying to find out what the actual upload speed should be with the Elite package but could not find any information whatsoever. What should it be?

5. During the day, when the internet actually runs better, we have around 18 users online at any given time. At night, when there's at most 7 people here, why does the internet slow down so much?

6. We have, I believe 5 static IP Addresses and the rest are not. The static are used for software we use with our server and for some of our printers. Why is it that the non-static IP address, when doing a speed test, show up as us being located in Wichita KS instead of actually where we are located in St. Louis, MO? When doing a speed test on our server with the static IP, it does show up pinging to St. Louis, although it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the dropped speed.

I hope someone can answer these questions. I'm at the point of getting rid of ATT for our business but considering I've had to put up with endless phone calls for months, upgrading all of our computers to the proper Mac Operating System, I thought I'd give it a chance to be resolved before embarking on a whole new company.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Timesnewspapers wrote:

...

Questions:

1. The obvious, what is going on?

2. I've read about installing line filters on all of our phone lines. We do have around 20 phones and a fax machine. Before I buy all of those, potentially throwing money out the window, I ask: Is that really necessary? If it is necessary, why did it work fine for a month and a half? How much do they cost and where's the best place to get them? Does it have to be through ATT?

3. Why, if those are necessary, didn't anyone ever mention that at any point in the process of getting UVerse Internet? Shouldn't the installer have brought those out and told me I'd need to use them? Even if he was selling them out of his brief case like a rolex salesman in New York.

4. I've been trying to find out what the actual upload speed should be with the Elite package but could not find any information whatsoever. What should it be?

5. During the day, when the internet actually runs better, we have around 18 users online at any given time. At night, when there's at most 7 people here, why does the internet slow down so much?

6. We have, I believe 5 static IP Addresses and the rest are not. The static are used for software we use with our server and for some of our printers. Why is it that the non-static IP address, when doing a speed test, show up as us being located in Wichita KS instead of actually where we are located in St. Louis, MO? When doing a speed test on our server with the static IP, it does show up pinging to St. Louis, although it doesn't appear to have anything to do with the dropped speed.

...

1) Hard to say, but my best guess is that your line quality is not quite up to what it needs to be to carry your subscribed speeds. It's trying hard, at times it can't make it; due to outside interference, or whatever. You didn't mention what RG/modem you have, but I'm guessing it's an NVG 510?

2) If you're sharing a single line with POTS and DSL, then you do need at least one filter to separate the frequency ranges for each to their own line. I'd suggest a single filter at your NID and a line from that to your RG, and a different line (lines?) to your phones.

3) Yes. OTOH, if your DSL isn't shared with a POTS line, then you shouldn't need any filter.

4) It depends on what flavor of U-verse HSI you have. If you have VDSL2, then it's about twice what it would be with ADSL2+. If you can tell me what model of modem/RG you have, then I'll look it up.

5) Do your users connect wired or wirelessly or directly via Cat5e? Perhaps there's more wireless interference in the evening? or maybe it's your DSL line having issues due to outside issues.

6) IPgeolocation services are quite iffy; especially with dynamically assigned IP addresses. Most of the time, this doesn't matter so it hasn't gotten a lot better.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

[ Edited ]

JefferMC,

Thank you very much for your reply. I do have a couple questions in regards to your answers.

1. Our modem is a 5031 NV. When you say line quality, are you refering to the outside line coming into the building?

2. I believe that is how the installer set it up at the NID. From outside --> UVerse Labled phone jack --> Uverse jack --> phone jack labled Data --> From here he uses a line filter, one going to a jack which is labled with the number for our fax machine, I honestly can't tell where the other one is going due to all the wires but I'm guessing to the RG. It was brought up that each phone needs a line filter just going into the wall. That is not true though correct. The phones should just be plugged into the wall jack without a filter?

3. Thanks

4. Modem is a 5031 NV. Elite Package is what we're paying for.

5. During the day there are wireless and Ethernet cable users. At night there are 7 users all running through ethernet, no wireless.

6. Thanks.

I have noticed that the green light for Ethernet is blinking constantly now while the wireless light is a constant green. We use One 16-port ethernet switch and Two 8-port switches. I could of course break that down into 2 switches instead of 3 but I don't see that as the problem. Especially considering it has been set up that way for over a decade.

Any clues as to the blinking light? When I tried to do a speed test this morning it just hung. Then the second time it doesn't even show the dials moving, it just pauses, then shows the ping result, pauses, then shows the download speed, pause, upload speed. Which, interestingly enough, the results aren't as dreadful but it is like there isn't a solid connection at all. Here's the results if it matters:

Ping 62ms - Download Speed 5.26Mbps - Upload Speed .55Mbps

Thanks again for your reply. I'm guessing there's solely a problem with the ethernet only, not the wireless, but not sure what the best first step would be to take. Not sure why all of a sudden this problem has started.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

1) Well, I'm talking about the entirety of the copper pair between wherever AT&T's Digital Copper Line interface card is and your RG. This includes the wiring in your facility between the RG and the NID, the NID, and the copper between the NID and the VRAD or CO.

2/3) The filter at the NID is the right thing to do; it only needs to be on the POTS line shared with the xDSL signal (in your case the fax machine). The other lines should not need filters. Just curious, do you have more problems when your fax machine is in use, or does it seem not to matter?

4) The PACE 5031NV is capable of doing both VDSL and ADSL2+ (though installers aren't supposed to use it for ADSL2+), so that actually doesn't conclusively answer that question by itself.

5) Hmm. Not sure what to say.

The Ethernet light tends to blink with activity. The Wireless light goes on solid when it is maintaining a "connection" with a wireless device and is off when there are no such connections currently active.

Two things I'd suggest:

a) Use your browser to visit http://192.168.1.254, which should be your RG's management page. Look around for pages that show bandwidths and error counts. Take screenshots of them and post them in a reply (the rich text editor icon looks like a tree; next to the filmstrip). You can keep working this thread so we can advise you what we think is going on, which will help you judge if a tech is blowing smoke or not, but also I would:

b) Click this U-verse Customer Service link to send a Private Message (PM) to the AT&T customer service team to help you resolve your issues. You can expect a reply via return PM (the blue envelope in the upper right hand corner of this site) in a business day or three.

This is a group of U-verse service specialists who are knowledgeable about U-verse and will stay with your problem until the end (instead of forgetting about it when the phone hits the cradle). Speed things up by including your Billing Account Number, and the best time and way to reach you.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

The traffic pages indicate you seem to have decent network quality inside your building. No errors in either wired or wireless communcation, and a trivial number of discards.

The event log is unremarkable.

The DSL Link errors is one page of interest that I'm glad you found. In the past day your line has had 3 uncorrected blocks all during the same second, and a reasonable number of corrected blocks. In short, your line looks pretty clean of errors. I'm somewhat surprised.

Do you upload a lot of data at the end of the day? Nightly backups to some an online backup facility? Reports to a corporate office or partner?

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Well... bummer. We do one nightly backup at 7 p.m. but that is to a local hard drive. No other backups whatsover. We upload our newspapers every Wednesday as we have been for the past 10 years so it's definitely not any kind of overload. I did just look at my software updates to see if there was anything that may help. I did a Java update and a Safari update just now. It took quite some time but after it was all said and done there was no change.

Interestingly, my speed tests run very poorly as compared to the past. For example, I go to speedtest.net to do them. Normally you click on Begin Test and then you sit and watch it do it's thing. It shows a graphic doing the ping, then it switches to dials moving up and down for the upload and download speeds. When each segment is finished it posts the results. So far every test I did yesterday and today does not work like that. It just sits there like it is hung up. If I scroll up and down on the sidebar it does show the dials moving and whatnot but not very much. Then seemingly randomly the ping results will show up then go back looking like it is all locked up again. Then eventually all the results just appear. There is no sort of moving dials or moving graphics as there had been before. It's like it's not running smoothly enough to handle any of it???

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Timesnewspapers wrote:

Well... bummer. We do one nightly backup at 7 p.m. but that is to a local hard drive. No other backups whatsover. We upload our newspapers every Wednesday as we have been for the past 10 years so it's definitely not any kind of overload. I did just look at my software updates to see if there was anything that may help. I did a Java update and a Safari update just now. It took quite some time but after it was all said and done there was no change.

Interestingly, my speed tests run very poorly as compared to the past. For example, I go to speedtest.net to do them. Normally you click on Begin Test and then you sit and watch it do it's thing. It shows a graphic doing the ping, then it switches to dials moving up and down for the upload and download speeds. When each segment is finished it posts the results. So far every test I did yesterday and today does not work like that. It just sits there like it is hung up. If I scroll up and down on the sidebar it does show the dials moving and whatnot but not very much. Then seemingly randomly the ping results will show up then go back looking like it is all locked up again. Then eventually all the results just appear. There is no sort of moving dials or moving graphics as there had been before. It's like it's not running smoothly enough to handle any of it???

Are you doing the backup over wireless?

Are you doing your throughput measurements over wireless?

Are you doing ANY high throughput activity via wireless?

WiFi is shared bandwidth, and even with a perfect connection only good for about 22Mbps (802.11b/g). Interference and multiple hosts drop the available throughput. IF the AP (RG / Modem) can SEE a node running 802.11b, then the rates for every client drop, even if the 802.11b node is not associated with the AP/Modem.

Wireless is always shakey at best. IF your previous tests have been wireless, try them wired, preferably directly to the RG, or a switch connected directly to the RG.

Employee Contributor*

*I am an AT&T employee and the postings on this site are my own and don't necessarily represent AT&T's position, strategies or opinions.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Via the customer service link, they did say they found interference on the line and are going to send someone out at some point. After looking at other peoples computers I did notice something very odd, or at least something I don't understand.

In the ethernet settings configured for Using DHCP, I noticed that some users have IP addresses that are NOT configured for our new Uverse Internet but with our old DSL IP addresses. We have 23 users, some wireless, some ethernet. Our old modem is turned off and unplugged. When the installer came he wrote down our Static IP addresses which there are 8 total. Below that he simply wrote: IP Range which includes 5 IP Addresses that range in between the static IP addresses. For example the last numbers of the static IP range from 96-103, and then the IP range numbers are 97-101. On my computer today, I set it up using one of the static IP numbers and I am able to upload files faster. But if I try to use that same IP address on another computer, of course it says there is another computer using that address and it does not work. How do I set up the other computers that are currently configured with the old IP addresses? After setting up my computer with a static IP address, our server which needs a static IP address and then our printers that use static IP addresses. I now have one static IP address left, but at least 10 users that are connected via ethernet which need IP addresses.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Are you talking about internal static LAN addresses, e.g. 192.168.1.97? If you're talking about public static addresses, ignore the rest of this post.

As long as the "old" addresses are in the same subnet as the RG (192.168.1.*), then for the most part they will work, but you could have "issues," and that mightcause some weird symptoms like you're seeing.

The RG should have a range that it assigns dynamically, and all static assignments should be outside of that range. IIRC, you can tell the RG to "dynamically" assign a specific address to a certain MAC address.

Check on the RG for the DHCP assignment range and ensure that any device with a static address is either outside the DHCP pool or in the RG to be assigned per MAC address.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Futhermore, regarding my last post on IP addresses. When I visit my RG's management page, there is an entirely different IP Address and default gateway. Is this the IP for all the other users? In the "old days" I would have a range of 100 numbers I could use and assign to computers, but with this Uverse Internet, I'm confused as to what IP address to enter for the users not requiring Static IP addresses. Is there a range for them?

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

Now if you were talking about public/external IP addresses...

You should have one "dynamic" and your block of external IP addresses. Any device that isn't assigned a public address will (a) be assigned a private/local/internal IP address to use in the LAN to communicate to the RG (either dynamically via DHCP or manually) and (b) will have that address translated (via Network Address Translation, or NAT) to the public world to the dynamic public address. Return traffic to your public address on that port will be returned to the inside computer that opened the connection using the local IP address.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

[ Edited ]

Sadly, I'm not sure of the difference between internal static LAN and public static addresses. I would guess they are internal, they are used for our network and internet usage. After looking on the RG management page and the paper that the installer wrote down IP addresses on, it appears I have 3 IP addresses and 3 subnet masks.

The IP addresses that the installer wrote down as static IP addresses start with 23.---.--.-- with one subnet mask number.

When looking at the Broadband settings on the RG management page there is an IP address that starts with 107.---.--.-- with a different subnet mask number.

Then when I look at the LAN settings, there is an IP address that starts with 192.---.--.-- with yet another different subnet mask number.

I set up our static numbers for the server, printer, etc. using the IP and subnet from the 23.---.--.-- addresses that were written on the paper from the installer. Does this sound correct?

Should I be using the IP/subnet from the LAN configuration page that has the 192.---.--.-- for all the other ethernet users connecting to the internet and in our internal network?

Lastly, should I be using the IP Address that shows under the Broadband Status page on the RG management system in any way, shape or form? 107.---.--.--

Finally, I found the LAN range which starts with 192.168.1.- None of our static IP addresses start with 192 currently, instead they start with what the installer wrote down 23.---.--.--

ADDITION- After doing a configuration change without the static numbers, I'm apparently running pretty good. Quick question before I try the other computers - When configuring my ethernet settings for each computer, should the router number be the same number as the one I use to get to my RG Management page?

Re: Internet Drops at Certain times of day - Internet speeds diminish all day long

[ Edited ]

I think I can explain your numbers:

The ones that start with 192.168.1. are private, internal addresses. That same IP address range is used by millions of little networks at the same time. Before a machine using an address like that can reach the Internet, it must pass through a router that does NAT, which translates the internal address to the public address that the Internet routes. These can be assigned manually or given out to the various machines by a DHCP server (typically the router). The subnet mask on these will be 255.255.255.0, because they all start with the same 3 octets and the entire last octet can change.

The addresses that start with 23. probably have a subnet mask of something like 255.255.255.248. Those are public static addresses from the block of static addresses you pay extra for. You give them to servers who need to be accessed from outside your network.

The address that starts with 107. is your dynamic public address. All of the private address machines actually use this IP address on the Internet all the same time (your RG figures out what traffic goes where). You normally don't use these for servers that have to be reached from outside for several reasons. If you want to see how this works, take one of your PC's with private address and go visit http://www.whatismyIP.com, and it'll show you the dynamic public address. If you opened a web browser on a server and went there, you'd see the public static assigned to that machine instead.

Yes, if manually configuring a machine to have a private address, then you'd tell it the router was the 192.168.1.254 number (or whatever your RG's is, that's the standard). There is no reason for an internal printer that doesn't have to be reached from outside your office to have a public static address, or for an internal only server. Something like your mail server and a web server would need static addresses.

*The views and opinions expressed on this forum are purely my own. Any product claim, statistic, quote, or other representation about a product or service should be verified with the manufacturer, provider, or party.