Is it just me or did the man look really sick to begin with when he took the position? If he was already ill when he took the seat, imagine the strain the job as well as those kind of scandals would put on a a elderly man would definitely make his condition worse. I wouldn’t be surprised if the man went into seclusion for both his health and mind. Being Buddhist and someone outside of the Church its easier to stand back and look at things more factually. Do I think he couldve done more? Perhaps if he wasn’t ill to begin with. No doubt the scandals plagued his mind as well as his health. As far as the Nostradamus prophecies go, such things are subject to interpretation. Same as the whole doomsday prophecy based off a clock left to us by a culture that is since long gone from the face of the planet yet people still place stock in the theory."Some Warriors look fierce, but are mild. Some seem timid, but are vicious. Look beyond appearances; position yourself for the advantage. - Deng Ming-Dao

I agree, when he took on the role i think he wasnt 100% and with the stress of the position, it has taken its toll. How would you cope with dealing all the scandals, if it was me i think i would be have been overwhelmed long ago.

It takes a strong person to admit that they cant handle the position and resign, i think he did the right thing.

As to all the childish back and forth on this stream, Every one has the right to there opinion and people are going to disagree.

If they felt like they were being bullied why didnt they just contact the moderators.

You do realise this is the same man whom when the truth about the pedophiles came out in regards to catholic priests back in the 60's,70's 80's 90's etc, he would remove them to a poor country to continue their ways, and refused to admit. he even wrote the chapter and verse for all catholic dioceses on how to act apon such allegations with complete denial and contempt....he knows what he has done. and he will meet his maker with that knowledge

yes he is old. he has had two heart operations, he is very frail and is stepping aside to allow someone to rule whom is capable...but in my view as a catholic, as a mother. he should never have held this office.

interesting side fact..Nostradamus stated the next pope with be the last...curious thought.

There were two problems with the pedophile scandal. The first was the abuse, the second was the coverup that perpetuated the abuse.

If there is a causal agent for the first, look no further than priestly celibacy. There is no scriptural authority for priests, let alone celibate ones. The original reason they brought in celibacy was a power grab by the monastic faction.

The coverup has multiple causes. The main underlying cause being the notion that the church is not accountable to any other party, not civil law and certainly not the lay members. It is a medieval concept of power. But next to that was the fact that John Paul II was completely incapacitated from 2000 on and possibly much earlier. He was unable to move his head to greet someone, let alone recognize that the policy had to be changed to respond to the crisis.

I think that the reason Ratzinger got the job in the first place was that he had been effectively running the papacy as more or less a Regent for ten years but without any authority to change policy.

So having been frustrated by being the stuckee for cleaning up the John-Paul II mess while he was incapable, he decided that the one thing he could change in the papacy was the idea that the post had to be held for life. That worked in the middle ages when they used to bump them off when they went senile (often earlier) but it is a complete failure in the modern age when a pope elected at 60 is likely to live to 90 or even longer. So absolute power could easily be concentrated in the hands of a senile Pope for 30+ years.

In the long run, this is probably the single most important reform one pope can make. It is certainly the most necessary. It is also going to open up the field to a much wider number of replacements. When the job is for life, the tendency has been to choose popes that are not expected to last too long. Ratzinger was chosen because the factions were sure that it wouldn't be too long before they would get another chance.

John Paul essentially invented the notion of the modern travelling papacy. The Pope is now expected to be globe trotting on a regular basis which is exactly what you would expect a modern leader of an international church to be doing. But thats not something that a man can be doing after 75 or so. If people want a globe trotting pope they have to have a young pope.

the guy was jus tired of office i dont knw wat they will do to replace him.

actually, i would imagine that the vatican was well aware of his plans to step down long before we were and probably already have a likely candidate. i don't think you just wake up and resign the papacy on a whim one morning. :)

actually, i would imagine that the vatican was well aware of his plans to step down long before we were and probably already have a likely candidate. i don't think you just wake up and resign the papacy on a whim one morning. :)

I'm actually thinking of running for Pope. My big plan is to turn Catholicism into Buddhism. We'll be sorted.

actually, i would imagine that the vatican was well aware of his plans to step down long before we were and probably already have a likely candidate. i don't think you just wake up and resign the papacy on a whim one morning. :)

I think it was announced on a Monday. Maybe it was just one of those Mondays for him! We've all had them.

Joined: 1/31/2013Posts: 3,239Location: Curled up in front of a beautiful fire

[quote=ByronLord]

There were two problems with the pedophile scandal. The first was the abuse, the second was the coverup that perpetuated the abuse.

If there is a causal agent for the first, look no further than priestly celibacy. There is no scriptural authority for priests, let alone celibate ones. The original reason they brought in celibacy was a power grab by the monastic faction.

The coverup has multiple causes. The main underlying cause being the notion that the church is not accountable to any other party, not civil law and certainly not the lay members. It is a medieval concept of power. But next to that was the fact that John Paul II was completely incapacitated from 2000 on and possibly much earlier. He was unable to move his head to greet someone, let alone recognize that the policy had to be changed to respond to the crisis.

###

John Paul two was a very noble man. his story in his youth and during ww2 is inspiring..yes he became old and needed help but it was the choice of the church not to ask him to step down, it came out back in the early 90's he offered due to his decrease in health...the Vatican is an extremely Feudalistic society. they hold strong their beliefs (even if they are 400 plus years old and out dated). it is what it is... He did mess up by listening to adviser's but in every culture there is a corruption in governing fields. i just didn't agree with this late man's appointment and i am glad he is stepping down...i hope the future Pope has more integrity.

Also in regards to the traveling Pope...John Paul saw the need to visit the people. times have changed and i believe he changed as much as he could for the world where the catholic church allowed flexibility. they will never in my life time see a woman appointed as a priest. they will never condone abortion and I am sorry to say i can not see them condoning gay relations...but that is their history, their bible and their belief..

I am what you would call a partial catholic is suppose.. i love most of the morals taught (Basic human rules, don't steal, don't murder, etc) but i don't aggree with the injustices i see. i attend church as this allows my children to learn and also to attend a high school that gives them opportunities that they otherwise would not get. as well as i love energy work. Reiki healing, spiritual candles i make and other energy work i do..so if i ever meet the Pope he would call me a heretic and i would just have to smile and have to agree on so many accounts.

From a Biblical point-of-view all that Pope stuff, the hats and robes are actually non-Christian. Requiring priests and nuns to not be married is not Biblical and obviously doesn't work. Many things about the Papacy are actually traced to ancient Babylonian 'pagan' religious practices.

My intention is not to insult Catholics but things are just what they are.

I think the Catholic Church has major problems dealing with modern society. Their refusal to allow for birth control is disgraceful, especially in a world with an ever growing and extremely serious over population problem. And their stance on gay marriage and rights? Really? Still taking that approach after their male priests have been caught molesting boys in huge numbers all over the world. Consenting adults should be able to do whatever they want without the judgement of an out-of-touch ancient unyielding hypocritical organization such as the catholic Church.

See ya later Pope.

PS. Have y'all seen all the New Orleans Saints football fans that dress up like The Pope to cheer on the Saints, drink beer, yell and dance in the stands at the games? I'm not a Saints fan but I do think those guys are funny as hell.

I don't support pedophiles. So he can go and fuck him self.When we lose the right to be different, we lose the privilege to be free.Charles Evans Hughes

Both the American people and nations that censor the internet should understand that our government is committed to helping promote internet freedom.Hillary Clinton I love this quote, no country in the world has put more into censorship, control and surveillance, then USA the last 10 years. lol

Hmmm... I don't support Danes, two legged, beer swilling dogs if I ever saw one... hypocrites like there was no tomnorrow...Yep, even had one as my boss a few years ago, we all had a party the day after he left, the new boss was a Norwegian and he thought of Danes the same as we did.

OR

You can simply say "I am not Catholic, I am not interested".

The Church started out in the days of Jesus with married priests, deacons and vicars.

The Church accepted the classical Roman (=pagan) rule of obligatory celibacy arount the Council of Nicaea, when it became obvious that they had to accept some of the rules of the "older" religions if they were ever going to successfully have them convert to Christianity.

That's when the Priests were MADE to become celibate, the Nuns MADE to accept nubility, and a lot of simbology was imported from other religions:- Bishops' headgear "Mitra"comes from Persian cult of Mythras, as does the tiny RED candle of perennial (eternal) fire which is lit next to the Tabernacle (Jewish) where the Host (Egyptian) is preserved;- the Host (Egyptian) is exhibited in a "Ostensorium" (Latin pagan) in the shape of the Sun (Sol Invictus, the One God, Giver of Light and Life, as in Egyptiasn Pharaoh Akhenaton, who refused the many gods and insisted on the One God, which manifested itself as the Sun)- Vestements of Priests is Roman, from the shape to the names of the individual items to the color coding during holidays- Religious Calendar is ROMAN, not Christian, with the sole exception of Easter (1st Sunday after the 1st full moon after the Spring Equinox) which is a solar variation of the Jewish lunar calendar- All other festivities, from Christmas on, are pagan carried on into Christianity.- Architecture of all churches from the 1st century up until the 19th century is Classical Roman; the Byzantine/Romanesque/Gothic/Barocque styles are merely aesthetic variations on the classical fundamentals.

Take it from an Italian Catholic, if you were to come to Italy you'd see pagan deities clothed and dressed as Madonnas, Jesus and whatnot, when in reality they are Vesta, Diana, Minerva, Apollo, Hercules...

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