Posted by tbird9423 on 7/29/2013 7:16:00 PM (view original):You highly doubt they are cheating. You said it right there. I understand the commitment some have put in and think they should be compensated to the fullest. Let's get rid of the doubt and admit that although some will suffer losses and others won't be able to have the level of enjoyment from the game that they desire, one team per world makes sense for the betterment of the game and the enjoyment of others. Will the outcome be fair to all -i no. But this game leaves fair out in the pasture relative to the creation date so why expect anything different
Ps. - how come this game sucks so bad that people quit but yet they don't really leave.

i understand the desire to have one team per world, period. im ok with that rule and had that been the rule, and seble transitioned people REASONABLY fairly (not perfectly fairly) out of existing situations, it would have upset me far less.

i still would not be a fan of the rule because my experience in tark when i paid enough attention to know all the multiple IDs, or at least close to all, was that there was a **** ton, and id much rather play with more humans than sims. but thats my personal opinion and i can certainly live with something else being the standard. i just wish seble didnt handle it so terribly. i think the perception a few guys are cheating is less important than the reality that there would be many more SIMs, but if thats what people preferred, i could deal with that. you just have to work for a graceful transition, and that never happened, at all - instead, seble said well we wont enforce it unless people complain so dont worry too much about it. its all about correctly setting expectations and giving people the courtesy of a graceful transition, IMO, and less about the rule. although id certainly still argue for a different rule until it was put in place :)

Posted by hughesjr on 7/28/2013 8:16:00 PM (view original):We can fix the 1000 mile rule real easy ... this game was designed to have one team per world.

Stop all the ******* whining and ******** and moaning and crying and stop ******* cheating. What a bunch of cry babies.

And yes, just ******* quit if you don't like it.

this game was designed to have one team per world.

That's 100% false. The game was designed for people to have as many teams as they wanted. It's since been changed so that people can cheat if they have more than one. But it was definitely designed for multiple accounts to be totally acceptable and even encouraged.

"The game was designed to allow one team per user per world. That should be clear by the fact that you can't add another team on an account if you have one in that world already. If we had wanted to allow multiple teams, we would have allowed them on the same account."

Look at the fair play guidelines ... the only exception to the 1 team per world rules are GD and HD ... everything else is one team per world.

It is absolutely outrageous that anyone could possibly believe that the game was designed for or had any intentions of having more than one team per person per world. There are 10 worlds and I have a team in each world. There is no reason to have more than one team in a given world. Ten teams is plenty. And when you created the alias you had NO experience. It would have been just as easy to have created it in another world.

Hell, it would not be called a WORLD if they wanted you to have more than one team in it ... you would not need to have an alias to do it. Can Roy Williams have an alias called Rory Stevens and coach both at North Carolina and Kansas ... of course not.

hughes - consider the difficulty of allowing multiple teams on an ID. its easier to allow just 1 team per ID total. but they had to expand that - they did the work to allow 1 per world. still, it takes more effort still to manage multiple teams in a single world on a single ID! how do you control each? what if you play yourself? managing the sessions can get tricky there and I dont blame them for keeping it simple.

the reality is we dont know if the reason it was designed for single teams per world was just because it was easier, because admin didnt really think about people wanting multiple teams, or because admin didnt want them in the game. for you to claim you know which of the three it is, that is what is absolutely outrageous!

besides, regardless of how it was designed, the issue was quickly raised by, you know, guys having multiple teams. and as has been made ABUNDANTLY clear, old admin was fine with it. his great in-game friend is famous (at least among the older crowd) for once running 26 teams simultaneously. old admin was perfectly informed of the situation and allowed multiple teams. people had multiple teams in the same conference regularly and that was fine for years. eventually, a rule was put into place to only allow 1 team/conference, but teams could be 10 miles apart or in the same division, or anything really - and multiple teams/conference was still very common - but people only got in trouble if they did something wrong, AND someone complained. key word - AND. for example, throwing a CT title game with one team to get your other team in the NT, you could lose a team for that. but nobody, to my knowledge, was kicked out without the notion of impropriety. as with all of the multiple team rule changes, there was never an effort by site staff to immediately enforce those rules, and the sentiment was always that coaches who werent abusing the situation were not the concern.

if you think about it, you really are being a total hypocrite - you are essentially saying everyone else is talking out their *** - when YOU are talking out your *** yourself! you have no idea what happened in the first several years of this game, when old admin established the original rules. if you did, you wouldnt make such ignorant claims.

i still dont understand the ignorance with respect to why people would want 2 teams in a world. YOU HAVE 3 TEAMS IN 2/DAY WORLDS. dont you want them all? for years, if you didnt want 2 teams/world, you could only have 1. if you wanted more, you had to pick them up in tark. are you seriously so closed minded that you cannot even understand that others might have wanted those extra 2/day teams? i mean seriously, its so basic, its just a ridiculous drum to continue beating!

Posted by hughesjr on 7/28/2013 8:16:00 PM (view original):We can fix the 1000 mile rule real easy ... this game was designed to have one team per world.

Stop all the ******* whining and ******** and moaning and crying and stop ******* cheating. What a bunch of cry babies.

And yes, just ******* quit if you don't like it.

this game was designed to have one team per world.

That's 100% false. The game was designed for people to have as many teams as they wanted. It's since been changed so that people can cheat if they have more than one. But it was definitely designed for multiple accounts to be totally acceptable and even encouraged.

"The game was designed to allow one team per user per world. That should be clear by the fact that you can't add another team on an account if you have one in that world already. If we had wanted to allow multiple teams, we would have allowed them on the same account."

Look at the fair play guidelines ... the only exception to the 1 team per world rules are GD and HD ... everything else is one team per world.

It is absolutely outrageous that anyone could possibly believe that the game was designed for or had any intentions of having more than one team per person per world. There are 10 worlds and I have a team in each world. There is no reason to have more than one team in a given world. Ten teams is plenty. And when you created the alias you had NO experience. It would have been just as easy to have created it in another world.

Hell, it would not be called a WORLD if they wanted you to have more than one team in it ... you would not need to have an alias to do it. Can Roy Williams have an alias called Rory Stevens and coach both at North Carolina and Kansas ... of course not.

Was seble there at the beginning? It sounds like he is inferring things about Tarek's intentions and ignoring things about Tarek's actions and tacit approval of multiple IDs. And NOW there are 10 worlds; when I started playing there were 6, if 10 teams is enough then I needed 4 multiple IDs.

Again, my biggest complaint is with the RULE and its arbitrary nature. If they had said just no multiple teams I wouldn't think it is nearly as ridiculous.

As for reasons for why a person might want 2 teams in the same world, I'll give you two reasons that were crucial to me. Competition; the Allen ACC is pretty easily the preeminent DI conference in HD, and at the time of the rule the Allen Gulf South was among the 2-3 best DII conferences in HD (and extend it down to the Allen NAC in DIII). If you wanted to play in those conferences to challenge yourself against some of the best, you can only do it in Allen. Second is purely a personal convenience issue, getting to the computer to recruit in the 2 hour window they give you can be a pain. So, while ten teams may be enough, having to get on while making dinner/eating dinner/cleaning up/giving daughter a bath/putting daughter to bed 10 different times isn't feasible.

And I'm sorry - did you really think anyone could take you seriously after your last point? That could be the most ridiculous thing I've read on these forums, and that's a high bar. Although since you love the appeal the appeal to authority, Seble is OK with coaching UNC and Kansas, it is almost 1100 miles.

Posted by gillispie1 on 7/30/2013 3:13:00 AM (view original):hughes - consider the difficulty of allowing multiple teams on an ID. its easier to allow just 1 team per ID total. but they had to expand that - they did the work to allow 1 per world. still, it takes more effort still to manage multiple teams in a single world on a single ID! how do you control each? what if you play yourself? managing the sessions can get tricky there and I dont blame them for keeping it simple.

the reality is we dont know if the reason it was designed for single teams per world was just because it was easier, because admin didnt really think about people wanting multiple teams, or because admin didnt want them in the game. for you to claim you know which of the three it is, that is what is absolutely outrageous!

besides, regardless of how it was designed, the issue was quickly raised by, you know, guys having multiple teams. and as has been made ABUNDANTLY clear, old admin was fine with it. his great in-game friend is famous (at least among the older crowd) for once running 26 teams simultaneously. old admin was perfectly informed of the situation and allowed multiple teams. people had multiple teams in the same conference regularly and that was fine for years. eventually, a rule was put into place to only allow 1 team/conference, but teams could be 10 miles apart or in the same division, or anything really - and multiple teams/conference was still very common - but people only got in trouble if they did something wrong, AND someone complained. key word - AND. for example, throwing a CT title game with one team to get your other team in the NT, you could lose a team for that. but nobody, to my knowledge, was kicked out without the notion of impropriety. as with all of the multiple team rule changes, there was never an effort by site staff to immediately enforce those rules, and the sentiment was always that coaches who werent abusing the situation were not the concern.

if you think about it, you really are being a total hypocrite - you are essentially saying everyone else is talking out their *** - when YOU are talking out your *** yourself! you have no idea what happened in the first several years of this game, when old admin established the original rules. if you did, you wouldnt make such ignorant claims.

i still dont understand the ignorance with respect to why people would want 2 teams in a world. YOU HAVE 3 TEAMS IN 2/DAY WORLDS. dont you want them all? for years, if you didnt want 2 teams/world, you could only have 1. if you wanted more, you had to pick them up in tark. are you seriously so closed minded that you cannot even understand that others might have wanted those extra 2/day teams? i mean seriously, its so basic, its just a ridiculous drum to continue beating!

And for those people, who absolutely have to have 2 teams in a world because they think they are entitled to do so (if you only want 2 games per day worlds,etc.), then THEY should have teams that are far apart so as not to share FSS Data,etc.

We just had a guy in one of my worlds take ALL 12 TEAMS in one conference. I'm sure he justified that to himself as OK as well.

(For those who care, Div-III Commonwealth Conference, Allen)

So, they came up with a 1000 mile rule to try and minimize the impact of having 2 teams in the same world, but still allow more than 1 team in a world. I think a good compromise since I personally think aliases are bad if used to have 2 teams in the same world. They even don't care about enforcing the rule unless someone complains. Even that is not enough.

The bottom line ... I am done with this conversation. I just wish people would play on an even playing field.

"Second is purely a personal convenience issue, getting to the computer to recruit in the 2 hour window they give you can be a pain. So, while ten teams may be enough, having to get on while making dinner/eating dinner/cleaning up/giving daughter a bath/putting daughter to bed 10 different times isn't feasible."

Posted by Trentonjoe on 7/30/2013 8:36:00 AM (view original):"Second is purely a personal convenience issue, getting to the computer to recruit in the 2 hour window they give you can be a pain. So, while ten teams may be enough, having to get on while making dinner/eating dinner/cleaning up/giving daughter a bath/putting daughter to bed 10 different times isn't feasible."

Again, the largest point of all is that 1000 miles is moot/arbitrary because FSS costs the same EVERYWHERE. If you're using 2 teams in the same world to **** one guy up (as we've seen a few times), ok then I guess this is "collusion" even though it's not something I'd kick and scream about like some of you gals on here...I'll concede that. There are still a considerable amount of people here that fail to see how much of a non-issue this is...it's not even as close to the big deal that you're making it out to be.

Who asked how that is an advantage while describing the advantage? I think tarek wanted teams and didn't care who owned them. But the game has moved beyond that and guys with multiple teams in one world (those responsible for building and keeping the game alive) are now hurting the game by trying to hold onto the past. The deck is already stacked against new players and when they find out the successful coaches have multiple teams and an additional perceived advantage, they hang it up. No one wants to play against sims, but rather play them in the short term and new players as those openings fill