gavesako wrote:... In sharp contrast the weikza-lam promises not the termination of samsaric life in nibbana but rather its indefinite prolongation through the attainment of virtual immortality as a weikza-do or Buddhist wizard ...

Hello, bhante,Reading this, I wondered whether there are any connections between this tradition and the esoteric Taoist traditions, on the other side of the Chinese border, which likewise aim for immortality. Have you come across any links?

gavesako wrote:... In sharp contrast the weikza-lam promises not the termination of samsaric life in nibbana but rather its indefinite prolongation through the attainment of virtual immortality as a weikza-do or Buddhist wizard ...

Hello, bhante,Reading this, I wondered whether there are any connections between this tradition and the esoteric Taoist traditions, on the other side of the Chinese border, which likewise aim for immortality. Have you come across any links?

Kim

I am not really sure but I would not be surprised if there were some connections between them.

Dan74 wrote:I am not knowledgeable about these things, but there seems to be confusion about various things in this thread. Tantra, at least as it is practiced in Tibetan Buddhism, is not magic, is not concerned with immortality or special powers, as far as I can tell. Its sole purpose is attaining enlightenment.

dear dan,

in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".

Shunyata Vajra wrote:in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".

Shunyata Vajra wrote:in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".

Shunyata Vajra wrote:in many sadhanas you can find lower activities, which usually include magic rites of different kinds. And the main purpose of yidam deity is to obtain siddhis, wordly and ultimate both. And of course we can find many long life sadhanas, for at least prolonging our lives, if not immortality. But one of the stages in vajrayana is called "rigdzin/vidyadhara of immortality".

May I ask, in which lineage do you practice?

Nyingma

Ah, OK. The qualities mentioned above may not be applicable to the practices of some of the other lineages. But that is a discussion for our sister Mahayana/Vajrayana site at Dharmawheel.net.

Supernatural powers are cited as the factors behind recent high-profile accidents in Thailand, namely the botched landing of a Thai Airways plane at Bangkok′s main airport earlier this week.The newspaper has also quoted Mr. Chotisak Asapaviriya, a former director of Airports Authority of Thailand (AOT), as saying that he had organised a regular prayer session to placate the vengeful spirits which reside in the airport vicinity. Thai Rath helpfully points out that 8 major shrines have been built around Suvarnabhumi Airport by the staff in order to ward off evil spirits, such as a shrine dedicated to the Naga (holy big snake in Buddhist myths) which is presumably angered by construction of the airport on what was once a swamp inhabited by snakes.Dr. Smith Thammasaroj, former director of Suvarnnabhumi Airport, told Thai Rath he was convinced of the existence of supernatural entities around the airport even though, he admitted, he had never encountered any particular case personally.The scientist who once headed Thailand′s Meteorological Department said he had invited so many psychics to conduct ceremonies and constructed so many shrines "that I can′t keep count". "We even had to build a condominium for the ghosts to reside," Dr. Smith said, "Because the spirits are so many individual spirit houses won′t be enough"."There have been more deaths than usual. Many have suggested that the Ministry of Transport needs a large-scale merit-making ceremony" Mr. Chatchart said.

Kim OHara wrote:Thank you for that, bhante, although I don't know whether the appropriate response is or or or just

Kim

I would not be so judgmental. That is simply Thailand/Southeast Asia. The older beliefs still have their say, even if clothed in Brahmanical/Buddhist trappings.

Judgemental? Me?? I suppose so, but not in a totally negative, "These guys must be nuts!" way. I have no problem with acknowledging both spiritual realities and technological realities but failing to distinguish between them strikes me as odd and potentially dangerous. In the West we have made that distinction (and made it work for us) since the days of Cromwell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trust_in_God_and_keep_your_powder_dry) and Ben Franklin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_helps_those_who_help_themselves) - if not all the way back to JC and his "render unto Caesar" rule. As a purely practical matter I really want the guys on the ground at the airport, next time I fly in, to have followed their maintenance manuals whether or not they have also made offerings to the nagas.

Dan74 wrote:I am not knowledgeable about these things, but there seems to be confusion about various things in this thread. Tantra, at least as it is practiced in Tibetan Buddhism, is not magic, is not concerned with immortality or special powers, as far as I can tell. Its sole purpose is attaining enlightenment.