They were. Obviously their husbands were chosen by the emperor (or their relatives) but that isn't any different from any other marriage among the Han upper class. A princess's husband was usually made a marquis, although since the emperor's daughter would only marry someone from a very good family, more often than not he was already one.

Here is a question that has haunted me for years. Sun Quan was said to have relatively short legs and so was Yimagawa Yoshimoto. However, the former was a good rider and escaped at Xiaoyaojin, while the latter couldn't ride properly and lost both the battle and his life to Nobunaga. How come?

You bloomed like a burning rose and exhausted my heart, which hence can bear nothing but weeds.

I asked this in passing in another thread, but it probably has a better home here.

Whatever happened to Tian Chou's little haven in the north? He left to solicit help from Cao Cao after the Wuhuan got handsy, but I don't see anything about it afterwards. For that matter, was everything Liu Yu built up dismantled by Gonsun Zan after his death?

“I think we delight to praise what we enjoy because the praise not merely expresses but completes the enjoyment; it is its appointed consummation." -- C.S. Lewis

mendedties wrote:I asked this in passing in another thread, but it probably has a better home here.

Whatever happened to Tian Chou's little haven in the north? He left to solicit help from Cao Cao after the Wuhuan got handsy, but I don't see anything about it afterwards. For that matter, was everything Liu Yu built up dismantled by Gonsun Zan after his death?

ZZTJ and Rafe's encyclopaedia doesn't say, presumably it lived on

“You, are a rebellious son who abandoned his father. You are a cruel brigand who murdered his lord. How can Heaven and Earth put up with you for long? And unless you die soon, how can you face the sight of men?”

Am I wrong in feeling Liu Bei is a tad underrated? I honestly see him as the Vercingetorix to Cao Cao's Caesar, a really great, top tier commander and leader in his own right but going up against an all time great who had the devil's luck. Though the thing that it's hard to get past is that Liu Bei lost A LOT in his early years, but i also kind of grade him as a curve because he started so far behind the other warlords of the era.

solemio wrote:Here is a question that has haunted me for years. Sun Quan was said to have relatively short legs and so was Yimagawa Yoshimoto. However, the former was a good rider and escaped at Xiaoyaojin, while the latter couldn't ride properly and lost both the battle and his life to Nobunaga. How come?

After reading this a half dozen times I realized you don't mean Yimagawa but Imagawa.

That said, Imagawa Yoshimoto was completely taken by surprise. By the time he realized he was under attack, his tend was undefended, the attackers almost right next to it, and Yoshimoto may have been completely unprepared for battle (no weapon, no armor, definitely no horse). In comparison, Sun Quan was on a horse, he had weapon and armor, and he had a thousand soldiers to defend him and help him escape.

So although Sun Quan's position was threatened, Yoshimoto's was far, far worse.

Unless I specifically say otherwise, assume I am talking about historical Three Kingdoms, and not the novel.

To Establish Peace wrote:Am I wrong in feeling Liu Bei is a tad underrated? I honestly see him as the Vercingetorix to Cao Cao's Caesar, a really great, top tier commander and leader in his own right but going up against an all time great who had the devil's luck. Though the thing that it's hard to get past is that Liu Bei lost A LOT in his early years, but i also kind of grade him as a curve because he started so far behind the other warlords of the era.

Thoughts on my view point?

I'd agree with this. Liu Bei was nearly always out-numbered or his troops were of dubious loyalty or quality. In a fair fight I'd still back Sun Ce and Cao Cao over him but I do think his above average.

“I learned that courage was not the absence of fear, but the triumph over it. The brave man is not he who does not feel afraid, but he who conquers that fear.” ― Nelson Mandela