All this crap about how long a QB has been in the league, is BS. Trent Dilfer, Vinice Fargomo. Kurt Warner and dozens have won the big game. And it was mind boggling. Just as many Stars have never even sniffed the seats at the SB.

To many people have been trying to judge a players worth by what he has done in first couple of years.

How long did it take Eli to pull his head out. Drew Brees spent some tim as River's backup. I think.

Jim Plunkett was cut and posted a superbowl win for his next team. All of these players spent years playing like crap. So why dump players the have'nt even had a chase toto get acclimated to the game. It's not like we have something to play for other than gettin much stronger thi year

March 9th, 2013, 4:27 pm

DJ-B

Rookie Player of the Year

Joined: April 5th, 2007, 5:51 pmPosts: 2320

Re: Free Agency splash

Boz, I get what you are talking about, but not sure what prev post you are referring toor what player you are talking about. If its Stafford not a single 1 of us advocated giving up or dumping him or saying he peaked. We all said we want to see what he can become, because he isnt where we need him to be yet. And we are saying now is the time to do it.

rao wrote:

Haha, I think I just talked myself out of Stafford. I've just convinced myself he could never win a Super Bowl if he's the focal point of the offense. I was trying to think of a team that has won with a QB with a demeanor like Stafford and I can't think of one.

conversion02 wrote:

Maybe Aikman...but they had very vocal "leaders" like Irvin and Deion

Farve ,but again look at the surrounding cast.

March 9th, 2013, 8:55 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Free Agency splash

DJ-B wrote:

Boz, I get what you are talking about, but not sure what prev post you are referring toor what player you are talking about. If its Stafford not a single 1 of us advocated giving up or dumping him or saying he peaked. We all said we want to see what he can become, because he isnt where we need him to be yet. And we are saying now is the time to do it.

rao wrote:

Haha, I think I just talked myself out of Stafford. I've just convinced myself he could never win a Super Bowl if he's the focal point of the offense. I was trying to think of a team that has won with a QB with a demeanor like Stafford and I can't think of one.

conversion02 wrote:

Maybe Aikman...but they had very vocal "leaders" like Irvin and Deion

Farve ,but again look at the surrounding cast.

Even Aikman had a "lead by example" work ethic. It's tough to argue that he was a hard worker.

IMO Favre was a damn good leader. He had the "we're going to go out there and kick the crap out of the other team" confidence about him, even when he was washed up. He demanded a TON from his WRs.

Boz, I get what you are talking about, but not sure what prev post you are referring toor what player you are talking about. If its Stafford not a single 1 of us advocated giving up or dumping him or saying he peaked. We all said we want to see what he can become, because he isnt where we need him to be yet. And we are saying now is the time to do it.

rao wrote:

Haha, I think I just talked myself out of Stafford. I've just convinced myself he could never win a Super Bowl if he's the focal point of the offense. I was trying to think of a team that has won with a QB with a demeanor like Stafford and I can't think of one.

conversion02 wrote:

Maybe Aikman...but they had very vocal "leaders" like Irvin and Deion

Farve ,but again look at the surrounding cast.

Even Aikman had a "lead by example" work ethic. It's tough to argue that he was a hard worker.

IMO Favre was a damn good leader. He had the "we're going to go out there and kick the crap out of the other team" confidence about him, even when he was washed up. He demanded a TON from his WRs.

I agree about Favre. He may have been a easy going southern boy, but he had a nasty competitive side that showed on the field. I loved watching Favre going at Sapp every time they would play each other.

I think Stafford is trying to be the "lead by example" type, but he still has to much of a young kid aura about him. Even if he had that going for him I don't think it would be enough when CJ isn't vocal in anyway and Suh seems to be about the worst possible example to follow. KVB was great, but I think his message became a little thin when he wasn't able to produce on the field. They need to add a vocal person that is also still at the top of their game.

March 9th, 2013, 10:01 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Free Agency splash

Why do you think Delmas is so important to the D? He's the vocal leader, and temperature of the Defensive side of the team. WHEN he plays, the D is better, when he's gone, the d struggles.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

March 9th, 2013, 10:34 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Free Agency splash

WarEr4Christ wrote:

Why do you think Delmas is so important to the D? He's the vocal leader, and temperature of the Defensive side of the team. WHEN he plays, the D is better, when he's gone, the d struggles.

Doesn't matter if he can't stay healthy for more than 10 games a year.

March 9th, 2013, 10:39 pm

WarEr4Christ

QB Coach

Joined: October 26th, 2005, 11:48 pmPosts: 3039Location: Elkhart, In.

Re: Free Agency splash

I was speaking to the verbal nature of the player not his physical ability to stay on the field. Delmas has been called the heart and soul of the defense, why? because he's verbal. Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, those are the types of guys that lead a defense. We used to have Spielman and Boyd, who led by example and from what I remember were vocal. That's the kind of impact player we need, a vocal, motivator that's gonna call everyone out, charge them up, and get the defense attacking on one accord.

Our offense and defense have both appeared to take on the players and the personality of the coach, QUIET, except when slapped on the back.

_________________2 Chronicles 10:14, "if my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and I will forgive their sin and will heal their land."

Unfortunately, we'd be lucky to be able sign any of those free agents other than maybe Sean Smith or Goldson. We have $6.7 million in space, and over 20 free agents, 6 of which Mayhew wants to resign... If Suh was traded, we'd be balling in this year's FA.

Unfortunately, we'd be lucky to be able sign any of those free agents other than maybe Sean Smith or Goldson. We have $6.7 million in space, and over 20 free agents, 6 of which Mayhew wants to resign... If Suh was traded, we'd be balling in this year's FA.

We would be in the same spot we are now, but without Suh if they traded him this year. Trading Suh can't happen this year his dead money is too large.

March 10th, 2013, 12:45 pm

Mufasa

Walk On

Joined: January 11th, 2006, 4:04 pmPosts: 438

Re: Free Agency splash

rao wrote:

TNLionsFanatic wrote:

I'm no cap master, so this might be outside the realm of possibility, but I'd love to see this happen.

Unfortunately, we'd be lucky to be able sign any of those free agents other than maybe Sean Smith or Goldson. We have $6.7 million in space, and over 20 free agents, 6 of which Mayhew wants to resign... If Suh was traded, we'd be balling in this year's FA.

We would be in the same spot we are now, but without Suh if they traded him this year. Trading Suh can't happen this year his dead money is too large.

Any idea how much dead money we're talking? I could look it up but too lazy.

Unfortunately, we'd be lucky to be able sign any of those free agents other than maybe Sean Smith or Goldson. We have $6.7 million in space, and over 20 free agents, 6 of which Mayhew wants to resign... If Suh was traded, we'd be balling in this year's FA.

We would be in the same spot we are now, but without Suh if they traded him this year. Trading Suh can't happen this year his dead money is too large.

Any idea how much dead money we're talking? I could look it up but too lazy.

From what I found it's $17,692,500. His cap hit is $18,172,500, so all they would save by trading Suh right now is $480K. They could sign an UDFA to replace him. but that's about it. They could do the half now half next year thing after June 1st. Even next year he will still have $11,670,000 in dead money because this year only drops off $6,022,500, while his cap hit is $17,572,500. The best part is his 2015 voidable year because even if he chooses to void it the Lions are still stuck with $5,897,500 in dead money as a parting gift. With the way his deal is structured it seems like they are just going to extend him next year. They wont be able to franchise him because it would be $21M, so if they don't extend or trade him next year they will lose him for nothing but a comp pick in 2015.

Now after typing all that I should change my previous statement to I can't see Mayhew eating that much dead money this year. IMO if they can get a good package of picks back for Suh this year they should just bite the bullet and kill all that money now, so next year they will be in amazing shape with Suh off the books and what most likely would be Backus, Raiola, and Nate dropping off also through cuts or retiring. With the package of picks they would also be able to get a lot of young cheap players for the next 4 years.

March 11th, 2013, 10:57 am

kdsberman

Team MVP

Joined: February 20th, 2007, 10:51 pmPosts: 3419Location: Saginaw, MI

Re: Free Agency splash

rao wrote:

kdsberman wrote:

rao wrote:

Shotty wrote:

TNLionsFanatic wrote:

I'm no cap master, so this might be outside the realm of possibility, but I'd love to see this happen.

Unfortunately, we'd be lucky to be able sign any of those free agents other than maybe Sean Smith or Goldson. We have $6.7 million in space, and over 20 free agents, 6 of which Mayhew wants to resign... If Suh was traded, we'd be balling in this year's FA.

We would be in the same spot we are now, but without Suh if they traded him this year. Trading Suh can't happen this year his dead money is too large.

Any idea how much dead money we're talking? I could look it up but too lazy.

From what I found it's $17,692,500. His cap hit is $18,172,500, so all they would save by trading Suh right now is $480K. They could sign an UDFA to replace him. but that's about it. They could do the half now half next year thing after June 1st. Even next year he will still have $11,670,000 in dead money because this year only drops off $6,022,500, while his cap hit is $17,572,500. The best part is his 2015 voidable year because even if he chooses to void it the Lions are still stuck with $5,897,500 in dead money as a parting gift. With the way his deal is structured it seems like they are just going to extend him next year. They wont be able to franchise him because it would be $21M, so if they don't extend or trade him next year they will lose him for nothing but a comp pick in 2015.

Now after typing all that I should change my previous statement to I can't see Mayhew eating that much dead money this year. IMO if they can get a good package of picks back for Suh this year they should just bite the bullet and kill all that money now, so next year they will be in amazing shape with Suh off the books and what most likely would be Backus, Raiola, and Nate dropping off also through cuts or retiring. With the package of picks they would also be able to get a lot of young cheap players for the next 4 years.

AND...a chance to move up to take Clowney if we arent high enough in the draft already.