mommy 2 2boys wrote:I am making my copies for the year. However, I noticed on weeks 3-8 that it states an activity is for an older child. What is the typical age of older/younger children? Tonya

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:40 am
ECC is written with 2nd through 6th graders in mind. I would say that second and third graders are "younger" while fifth and sixth graders are "older." We did ECC with my two girls (2nd and 4th grades at the time) and we did the World Geography together as a team.

Do a unit or two before making copies for the entire book. I'd make some copies to try out with North America and see how they go. Some are easier than they look, some are harder than they look.
Or, if you have just one child, he could write right in the book, and you won't need to make copies, just treat the book as a workbook.

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2007 9:31 pm
I first tried to have the 4th do the research on her own. I did this once. After that, the 2nd and 4th and I did the World Geography sheets together.

Fourth grade is young for on your own research (some kids can handle it, not the average ones in MY family) but they sure learn a lot by having mom demo it for them, etc. By the end of the year, my 4th grader was pretty good at looking it up.

One thing that helps with research is to always be on the lookout for those little curious questions (even when NOT related to school). If you are busy cooking, for example, and your child asks, "Mom, are Great Danes the biggest dogs around?" you answer, "Well, I'm not sure, but you may use the computer to find out." Taa Daa. Curiosity is a great motivator for teaching research. Let them try and then you help just when needed. Or, similarly, when YOU have a question, say to your child, "I was looking for a new waffle recipe. Would you like to watch me go online and figure one out?"

kfrench wrote:I just received my ECC stuff so I am trying to figure out what I should expect my 2nd and 4th graders to acomplish. Especially with the Geography pages they fill out. How many should I expect and which one's do you thing are appropriate.

Thanks,
Krista

2nd grade
This is what I did that worked for my 2nd grader back when we did ECC.

*She did the animals page on her own.
*The pages called Physical Geography and Human Geography we did together I would read it out loud, point to any maps, and have her say it back. I just didn't know it was called narration back then :)
*many pages were charts and graphs. We would fill in the chart using the answer key in the back and just let her answer the questions about the chart. This made it more of science and/or math. But we just did some of them.
*multiple choice style pages, we did together. Using the answer key as a resource for learning unknown material. (this is 2nd grade)

What I left out (after trial and error)
*any of the fill in the blank style such as Deserts, Vegetation page, Seas and bodies of water,and the Products and resources page, and the Mountain ranges pages
*the latitude and longitutde pages. it just didn't work.

What sometimes worked:
*the little cut and paste the bodies of water pages. it was a hit or miss activity for us.

Most continents have about 20 pages or so of possibilities. I kept it to about 1 page per day and kept it to about 10-15 minutes and felt no obligation to do all 20 pages over the study.

I think the key to it for my 2nd grader was that I used the pages to teach from instead of having her work independently.

Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:49 am 4th grade - As a general rule of thumb, I think 4th graders should try to do some (not all) of the pages of the World Geography book with adult help. Keep in mind the goal of the packet is to gain information about the continents while learning how to use reference materials. And it is ok to work with your 9 y.o on this.

The other advanced assignments throughout the year such as an extra activity or reading assignment: I'd treat as optional for a 9 y.o. I just randomly opened my older ECC manual and saw one advanced assignment that I wouldn't make a 9 y.o do (research a specific topic) and then saw another one that maybe a 9 y.o could do if not time crunchedor already doing a lot of writing in other subjects that day. That assignment was to write down a few fascinating facts. I'd probably encourage the 9 y.o to at least repeat back 1 or 2 things from the reading. :) Those are bit more subjective and can be treated individually based on what you see the need for your 9 y.o

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 7:21 am
Just tagging on a bit

My opinion (for what it’s worth) is that it is ok to help a bit with the sheets, but you should be encouraging the 4th grader to try to look up some things. If they can’t find out everything, that’s ok too. It doesn’t have to be all about research. There were times in the packets that we changed the purpose of the pages from research and learn information into let’s learn how to read a graph. And in retrospect, we used some of the pages for reading comprehension too. I just didn’t realize that until now. Pages like the Natural Resources pages – (shhhhhh) we looked up the information in the answer key and filled in the chart and then interpreted the data. Not everyone likes to do that, but I saw the purpose as accurately filling in a chart and learning how to read it. One idea on those pages called Physical Geography and Human Geography: you can do some of those pages much like the way they would have read the back side of the state sheets in ADV. Sometimes, you might like some of the hands on ideas (from the packet pages) for the younger kids to be included.

General ideas about the geography packet:

When I first did ECC, I didn’t own encyclopedia. We did ok with the Atlas books that were in the basic package for most of the pages. Also, in the back pages of World Geography, well in the older edition that I have, there is a list of resources and one is a book from the basic ECC package, Intermediate World Atlas (which used to be called Classroom Atlas)

One online resources for some of the things to look up:
CIA World Fact Book CIA fact book
World Book does have a CD rom version of their encyclopediaWorld Book on CD It’s about 40 or 50 dollars
Our library has some encyclopedias that can be check out. Some are reference only. Our library has book sales. The last one I was at, there was a set of children’s encyclopedia for $2 for the whole set. I didn’t buy them.

When we re-do ECC next year (wow, has it been that long already?), I’m confident that we’ll schedule a library trip on the weekend for some of the sheets so that my 7th grader can learn more on her own.

Now I’m in reflective mood...
Just to also say that there will be more opportunities as they get older to do more research on their own – such as the state report in year 4. So this is not a one time chance to learn those research skills for your 4th grader. Part of the learning process for him will be to watch what kind of resources you will use to find some of this (just as Kelly said).

I think it's okay if a 2nd grader doesnt do ANY of the pages, unless he or she is a worksheet-loving kid.

3rd grade

My son did ECC in 3rd grade. A 3rd grader wouldn't need to do any of the packet & in hindsight, I could have just skipped it. But here is what I did.

* I copied the whole packet for the first continent. You wouldn't necessarily need to do that, but that is how I am :o)

* We tried some different things with it until we found what worked. We tried having him look up pages with daddy, and that didn't end up being daddy's favorite thing to do. What we settled on was just a page or two each continent that he found at least mildly fun.

* One page he could do on the computer (languages using CIA Factbook).

* One page we did mostly with markers on a large wipe-off world map (the islands/longitude page).

* I also looked at what would be interesting on a particular continent.
Islands are not as fun on continents that only have obscure ones, and languages are not as fun on continents where most people speak only one or two main languages.

* I tried to make it easy for him & didn't expect perfection. I think you're just looking at exposure at this age. I looked at it as just a little introduction to the many facets of the world of geography.

And remember, a child who does ECC in 2nd or 3rd will have time to do ECC again in 7th or 8th grade; save those worksheets for then :o) A 4th grader will continue to do mapping throughout MFW into high school, so you don't need him to learn everything this year, either :o)

Hi: I really like all these topics on ECC--lots of people doing it this coming year! It really was one of our best years.

I did ECC with a 2nd and 4th grader.

4th grade

With the 4th grader, we picked and chose. I used it as a lesson in teaching how to find materials in a reference book and how to use encyclopedias, atlas, maps, etc. I tried to work toward a research project she could work on by herself. We made the "packet time" a time for her to do at the library. I was friendly with the local librarian, and she took my daughter for about 1/2 hour and taught her how to use the reference materials in the library. It was a good experience for her. I also did some of this material with her. I liked being able to use this book to teach multiple skills as well as learning the geography part.

Even in 4th though, she did not complete all of it. She always did the animal page--it was her favorite. I would say we did about half the pages.

2nd grade

My 2nd grader--no go there. My 2nd grader didn't do any of the World Geography stuff, and that's okay--I didn't expect him to do this book yet--I will when he does it again in 7th grade.

My 2nd grader did do some of the A trip and Another Trip around the world. Most of those are pretty appropriate for their age. He always did the flags and character traits in hero tales (copy work) and did his dictation and bible copy work (if it was long, I would continue it to the next day). He did copy and illustrate for his science journal and I would write out his Geography from A to Z and he would illustrate it. During this year, my 2nd grader really grew and matured in his writing ability and willingness to do more writing and reading; I was amazed.

We did all the hands-on science experiments, all the costumes and dress up; all the cooking and food, Wee Sing around the world, and even some computer research and additional info. that we got off this web-site in Ideas for ECC. We also did a hymn each country studied and that was enriching too. We did lots of read-alouds and even added some of our own countries (we studied Mozambique and Holland too).

As long as you make it fit your 2nd grader, it is a great year. Have a great year in ECC.

Tina, homeschooling mother of Laura (1996), Jacob (1998) and Tucker (2003) In MO
"One of the greatest blessings of heaven is the appreciation of heaven on earth. He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."--JIM ELLIOT

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2007 1:08 pm
We are finishing up ECC now with a 2nd grader and a 4th grader.

I replaced the packets with Geography and Map Activities (put out by Rand McNally, I got mine directly from their site). I had the one to go with the intermediate atlas (that comes with the MFW ECC package), and also the one that matches the beginner's atlas (which I purchased separately for my then-2nd grader).

I just had them work on the section for the continent we were on. Very easy. The kids enjoyed it. I helped them as they needed it.

HTH!!
Jennifer

mommy to four boys & two girls... and another boy on the way
completed K, 1st, ADV, ECC, CTG and RTR
2009--2010 Enjoying Exploration to 1850

Willow wrote:I'll copy the first ECC packet to see what pages she can do from it. I think using portions of the packet will benefit her, since the packet covers much more detailed information that the intermediate book does. She'll also get some more experience using reference materials that way.

Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:44 am
This is a good plan I think. I have been with MFW for 5 years now and looking back I can remember so many fun activities that we did in ECC. My kids were also only 2nd and 4th and we choose to do 3 or 4 pages from the packet, but not always the same 3 or 4 with my 4th grader. The Rand McNally books sound like a great addition for younger students, but not a must since there will be plenty of other learning and fun activities in ECC.

I think that since one of the purposes for the 4th -8th graders is to learn some research skills and it is reproducible for the whole family, the World Geography book is a great choice. It helps you learn to use a variety of other sources to find information.

I agree that 2nd and most 3rd graders do not need to do any of the World Geography book unless they are highly interested and want to try a page or 2.

I just felt that those who were watching this thread may be confused as to whether or not they needed to add an additional book. I think adding the book is fine for those who like it and choose to, but I also feel that MFW will be complete for your younger kids without the additional book as well.

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:24 pm
We used the World Geography Book 'our way'. I have 3 grad. ( 2 from hs) and I think it's 7th-9th info. compared to things I used before.

For my younger dd we filled out only the animals page and a couple others just to show what resources we can use.

For my younger 2 (and 1dd with fine motor skill isssues) I did use the Traditional Clothing page as their map and just had them color in country as we studied it, we just could not seem to make the outlines of the countries look like .... countries, so this worked out for us and I was able to include my 5yr ds (thrilled he needed his own set of colored pencils). We loved our first MFW year.

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 1:33 am
I have an 8yo "3rd grader." We do exactly what MFW suggests. That is, we do some of the sheets. We work on most of it together. We've done the latitude/longitude sheet together (which she enjoys). Then there are others, like the rivers or cities, that she does herself.

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 2:42 am
My 5th grader can't get all of the answers, even with my help. I would only choose a couple of pages a week for a fourth grader and do the pages with them. remember that they point is to learn to research and find answers.

We use Wikipedia mostly. We do have a set of encyclopedias that we use when we can, but I am still missing some boxes from our move 4 months ago so we no longer have a full set. We also use the Atlas and other maps.

The TM says (in additional info in week 3) that as a general rule of thumb, 5th & 6th graders should complete most or all of the pages. 3rd & 4th graders may do some of the pages with adult help. 2nd graders are not expected to do any of the pages. You will determine how many and which pages your child completes for each continent.

3rd grade

My son had just turned 8 when we began ECC this past fall. In the beginning, getting used to the flow of our days (we're also doing MFW1), we didn't do any of the geography pages (and they don't even start until week 3). After awhile, I began perusing the activities & just choosing one or two that he would find interesting & not too overwhelming. I've kind of stuck with that general idea for this year. I've seen him progress & flourish with the amount I've added, and that's been a good gauge for us.

I have a 3rd and 5th grader. The oldest does almost all of the packet. When he's done we discuss it and that's what my youngest gets is the discussion. I know that my youngest will repeat ECC in 8th grade so I am not worrying about it with him.

Also whenever I go to the computer to show my oldest how to look something up, I drag the youngest over with us.

Kim Schroter wrote:
I'm using ECC with my 4th and 2nd grader and just introduced the advanced packet to the older one today. I told her we'd work together on it and that she didn't need to complete everything. I'm interested to see which pages interest her. The language page was the first thing she asked to do as we skimmed through the packet together, so I found this website and she sat next to me at the computer and wrote down the answers.

She tucked the packet into a pocket in her World binder and we'll pull it out as time allows.
Kim

I really like this approach to it. Letting her choose also means that she will be a bit more invested and interested. Great idea!

I remember that this bit of information is a hidden until the 3rd week when you start the World Geo. packet. Just so you see also what the author's intent was here, I wanted to direct you to her comments in the T.M. You will find them under week 3 under the Monday comments. There she gives a suggestion for how many pages each grade level would approximately do. This is of course up to you since you know your kids the best. These page are to be done together as a learning experience. Most kids in elementary are not ready to do them on their own.

I found this year doing it a 2nd time with my 7th grader that I help him at the beginning of the year but about half way through he could find much of it on his own. I do allow him to use the internet as well to find out information(under my supervision). When he was a 2nd grader I did not do any pages with him and work about half of the pages with my 4th grader.

Fenni wrote:ok, I know the TM says 3rd graders should complete some of the World Geography pages w/ an adult's help. I'm just curious what "some" has meant in your home. I am terribly indecisive and will agonize over these sheets because I don't have explicit instructions on how many to do and which ones. I like to have my hand held and if it doesn't work for us, I have no trouble lowering expectations or dropping the activity. so how many did/do you do with a 3rd grader? Should I just choose the ones that look more like fun than work? My 3rd grader will be a just turned 8 yr old boy who loves learning, but doesn't love seatwork. And, of course, he'll get this all again as an 8th grader.

Thank you for any insight.

I know when I did ECC the first time (when oldest was only 2nd grader...), we tried just about all of the types of worksheets, but not for each continent. Truth be told, I over did them for North America and then back off after that. She was so NOT ready for the island coordinate pages. and we didn't try certain ones.

so...... since I feel like typing long answers that are vague.....

I'm not sure there is a minimum number to do for 3rd grade. The idea is to introduce research and looking up things on maps in one book while answering questions. I'd start off with the ones that look more like fun instead of work. Then, you have 7 continents to play around with the sheets and try some others and see what works without the worry of it having to be done. If you did 3 per week that might be more than enough? it was a random number that I picked. And you might take 5 minutes on one day and then finish it tomorrow and then only get one type of page that week -- that's ok too.

So, which pages to try and which to just ignore? and remember too, that if they don't complete the entire worksheet, it's ok

Rivers and Cities pages (and even Physical Features pages) can be done together if you help them solve the clue that is given and then use Intermediate World Atlas together to solve the clue given. My middle gal (but she was 4th grade) liked looking them up on a map and matching.

If you have done ADV, you can treat the Physical Geography page, and Human Geography pages in a similar way that you treated the back side of the State Sheets in ADV. You'd read those and highlight or write down one or two facts from it that are interesting to your kid. Those are low pressure, 5 minutes or so to do.

I might try some of the Religion pages with them but with a 3rd grader, I'd expect to treat it just as if I were introducing the idea of learning how to read a chart/graph. So save those types only if your kid really wants to try it.

I'd save the mountains pages to see if they'd like to try it. They basically find the height and put them in order and make a graph. My 4th grader enjoyed that page. But, ... I'd probably skip those with 3rd grader.

Bodies of Water pages -- might be fun. Look on a map and match the outline of the water with the name of it. It's at least an introduction for a 3rd grader to hear those names and try to find it on a map. So, I'd set the goal of hearing some of the names and finding their shapes on a map and having fun with it.

Deserts pages: I'd skip with 3rd grader. Basically, you're looking those up in a dictionary and writing the definition. They are getting enough language arts elsewhere, right?

Islands: use Intermediate World Atlas book and help them locate it on a map together. This might be fun, but don't expect mastery of them doing in on their own. I might do one or two islands just to introduce the idea of finding coordinates, but this is one that can be skipped.

One hint on those island coordinate pages: Use the physical maps in Intermediate World Atlas. Much easier than the wall map.and more of them are on there. When it wasn’t clear such as two of them in South America, we did a fast internet search with terms such as "curacao coordinates" and got it from. (hint: it's the Neth. Ant.) for Antarctica that not everything was listed in the Intermediate World Atlas. Don't worry on that. so there were things on those pages that we "skipped" or looked up in the answer key just to figure it out.

Climate Page: that's a math activity page. I'll let you decide.

Products and Resources: this one could be skipped easily with 3rd grader. you'll need print copy of World Book and look it up by product name. They might like doing it a few times just to know that it can be done. But in terms of doing the whole page for each continent --- nah. Just take them to the library World Book and show them that it exists and can be done.

Vegetation page: I'd skip with 3rd grader as they'll get enough in Ecosystems.

Animals: hopefully that would be fun for 3rd grader. we seldom bothered with the endangered part and just made sure we recognized the animals. Don't sweat it on some of those South American animals that all look like llamas to me. (well, ok, I recognized which one was the alpaca......)

population page: math activity, I'd skip with 3rd grader unless they happen to be in Singapore 3B, and then skip the challenge question and bottom half of the page anyway.

Languages pages: I might do a few of them on each continent, but not fill in the whole sheet. I'd look at the list and decide on 3 countries on the continent that my kid might want to know what language is there. wait a minute, what if they needed a challenge on the Geography game, and you just made sure they knew some languages of the countries that have the double dot on the Game card? That way you have the info without pressure of looking it up on a worksheet?

Extra activity pages: only as there is interest with your child. Some times these tend to cross over with stuff in Global Art, so you might not do any of the extra hands on stuff in WG

I hope that helps in some fashion to have a game plan to try and know that it is perfectly ok to try different types of sheets in different continents with 3rd grader. Keep it short and sweet in terms of amount of time per day. Looking forward to hearing how it goes next year and how you adjust and keep it fun and flexible

Mountain Heights page - we would look them up together on Wikipedia. We did NOT order them by height, we would just write the height down.Rivers pages - we would use the Intermediate World Atlas to help us find them.Other "landmarks" pages - again, use the atlas to help. We didn't do the "description" ones, just the ones that listed land feature names.
We did the bodies of water pages - pretty easy.
My dd loved the bar graph pages and the religion pages. We wouldn't do the "advanced" questions on those.
Finally, the animals pages - we would try to guess first, then get out the "Great Animal Search" book, and then use Wikipedia if all else failed.
Once, we tried the island coordinates page, and couldn't find half the islands, so we skipped that one.

We would do these on "light and independent" Fridays, or other days when we had extra time.

What I did was make a copy of most of North America & see how it went.

My 3rd grader did VERY little. I think my manual said none were expected for 3rd grade.

cbollin wrote:My manuals (2002, 2008 and 2009) all say "third and fourth graders may do some of the sheets with adult help."

yes, I have 3 versions of the ECC manual. I'm weird. I have the one from way back when. Then got one last year. And couldn't resist getting the 2nd edition to try to do Kingdom Tales and Ecosystems and Complete book of Animals for summer structure and fun.

-crystal

"May." Ah, that may be it. For my oldest child, "may" probably would have translated into, "I'm sure you'll do it all, honey, you're so grown up!" For my youngest, it translates into, "Aw, you don't need to do any of those, hun, you're just a little guy..."

Julie

Last edited by Julie in MN on Sun Jun 14, 2009 9:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Julie in MN wrote:"May." Ah, that may be it. For my oldest child, "may" probably would have translated into, "I'm sure you'll do it all, honey, you're so grown up!" For my youngest, it translates into, "Aw, you don't need to do any of those, hun, you're just a little guy..."

yep. giggle giggle giggle. yep. giggle.

for my middle child it meant "oh why not at least give it a try since you're growing up and in 4th grade?" She actually did them all in 4th grade. She liked those sheets. She even liked the "vegetation page.". She'd look up stuff in Illustrated World Atlas or other book and write down one thing (notebooking style) and enjoyed coloring in the map on that veg. page. She would use the Climate page in Intermediate World atlas and make appropriate colors on the map on the veg page.
She had a blast with them. But that's just my middle gal for you.

oh here's another fun story with that book this year:
Oldest was in 7th grade. middle in 4th. Oldest struggled on the Religions page where you "tell X number other facts" from the graph. She was trying too hard. Middle gal had the idea and was figuring out facts from the graph that weren't specifically asked. She came up with normal answers and my oldest said "but... that can't be that easy to do is it?"

you know what...I missed the "may." I thought it said should. LOL! so now I really don't care very much. He's young and he struggled with the workload in ADV so maybe we'll grow into some of the sheets later in the year, but I think I'll only start with one or two per unit. thanks for pointing out the may, Julie!

Julie in MN wrote:"May." Ah, that may be it. For my oldest child, "may" probably would have translated into, "I'm sure you'll do it all, honey, you're so grown up!" For my youngest, it translates into, "Aw, you don't need to do any of those, hun, you're just a little guy..."

LOL!! That's pretty much how it has gone here too My 27yo son knew a totally different mom than my 7yo twins sons do, so sorry dear. I'm not sure if it's the "wisdom" that comes from age or if I'm just too darn tired now to push them And as for the grandchildren, "forgetaboutit"

That said, I really appreciate all the detail about which ECC pages to do with young third graders. I'll be printing this out and filing it, I think it will be extremely helpful on "those days" (or weeks as the case may be)

Hi! I am also traveling through ECC with a 3rd grader and 1st grader this year. My 1st grader sounds similar to yours, she is breezing through the reading/phonics of 1st grade and so she is included in most of ECC. I felt "guilty" for not doing ANY World Geography pages until this week (we are on week 11)! I copied the one about South American animals because my kids have really enjoyed reading about them. We used a couple of animal encyclopedias and had to look some up on the internet, so it helped them to "research". We didn't even finish the entire page, but we will probably look at it today.

The World Geography pages help with more Geography skills. Most the pages would be challenging for your kiddos. The 3rd grader would do some with adult help.

My dd - 3rd grade has done some from each continent section. She needed more help the first 9 weeks or so. We are on week 15 and she is able to do the World Geo. pages on her own without much help from me. I look at he pages for the continent and only copy those pages I know that she is capable of doing. Most of them she will do when she does ECC again in 8th grade.
Edie