For all of you that can't get enough of Madness compilations, there's a new 42 track album coming out in November.

As I would expect, there isn't a track on here that I don't own already, and I think it will be the same for most of you reading this.
A great album for someone 'new' to Madness or is just after a hits album though.

pre order is on pledge (yes pledge again) at a very reasonable price for the CD, although I don't know what the p&p is.
I guess it will be available elsewhere as well soon enough.

There are not that many vinyl compilations - Complete which covers from The Prince to House of Fun, Utter which runs from Driving in my Car to Ghost Train, It's Madness which is mostly a mixture of A and B sides, Divine Madness which runs from The Prince to Ghost Train (but leaves out Sweetest Girl), and Total Madness which runs from The Prince to One Better Day and adds NW5 and Lovestruck.

So this is the most Complete vinyl release of all of their singles - but strangely swaps out 4 - no Sweetest Girl, Harder They Come, Shame and Scandal and Sorry and instead there is two early tracks: Bed and Breakfast Man, Madness, and two tracks from the Our House Musical: Sarah's Song, and Simple Equation.

So not quite a "hits" compilation nor a full set of single releases - and absolutely nothing new. I would have thought they could have managed at least one unreleased additional track like Last Rag and Bone Man.

Posted:
Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:59 am

HarryToo Hot

Joined: 03 Jan 2009Posts: 1500
Location: London

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Which band around now is the most similar to Madness? Before Madness were The Kinks and The Blockheads- but what band currently releasing records writes intelligent London pop songs that have a sense of humour?
It's an amazing run of great singles_________________I got one art O'level it did nothing for me

Posted:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:21 pm

kennybaconSpecial

Joined: 04 May 2009Posts: 833
Location: Barrow

Post subject:

Harry wrote:

Which band around now is the most similar to Madness? Before Madness were The Kinks and The Blockheads- but what band currently releasing records writes intelligent London pop songs that have a sense of humour?
It's an amazing run of great singles

Blur might fit that category, influenced by the Kinks and possibly Madness, released latest album last year but had a fair gap as a group before that

Not anywhere near as well known as Blur - Buster Shuffle come to mind too and I think they are still making records, and Too Many Crooks - though it is a few years since they released anything they are still around I think_________________Bernie Rhodes Knows - Dont Argue

Posted:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:45 pm

HarryToo Hot

Joined: 03 Jan 2009Posts: 1500
Location: London

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I remember being shocked at how Madness-esq Blur's video for "Park Life" was.

I guess it's hard for new bands to get the exposure that Madness enjoyed - there's no John Peel to champion you and no Top of the Pops appearance to say you've arrived. There isn't even a magazine you can get on the cover of (Mojo and Uncut are only interested in Bowie and The Beatles etc)_________________I got one art O'level it did nothing for me

Posted:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:09 pm

kennybaconSpecial

Joined: 04 May 2009Posts: 833
Location: Barrow

Post subject:

Harry wrote:

I remember being shocked at how Madness-esq Blur's video for "Park Life" was.

I guess it's hard for new bands to get the exposure that Madness enjoyed - there's no John Peel to champion you and no Top of the Pops appearance to say you've arrived. There isn't even a magazine you can get on the cover of (Mojo and Uncut are only interested in Bowie and The Beatles etc)

You just have to take a look at the charts to realise it is no longer the domain of 'proper' bands that still do things in the old way - i.e playing smaller venues and building a support, striving to get a record out, there's plenty of decent bands out there, but commercially the time isn't right for them. Nowadays bands tend to make a chart entry on the week of release due to pre sales and drop out completely the next week._________________Bernie Rhodes Knows - Dont Argue

Posted:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 7:47 am

chemodeToo Hot

Joined: 29 Dec 2008Posts: 2006
Location: Area 7

Post subject:

Too Many Crooks
Cartoon Violence
Buster Shuffle
Rough Kutz.....

A few good bands there. _________________I got one art "O" level, it did nothing for me !!

Posted:
Sat Sep 30, 2017 8:33 am

ImaniToo Hot

Joined: 26 Apr 2008Posts: 1606
Location: Bradford

Post subject:

Harry wrote:

Which band around now is the most similar to Madness? Before Madness were The Kinks and The Blockheads- but what band currently releasing records writes intelligent London pop songs that have a sense of humour?
It's an amazing run of great singles

I don't think there is one, Harry. There's a much heavier American influence on British culture and its music now. That influence was there during the time of The Kinks and Ian Dury and others before, but their music was always more informed by English traditions and the things immediately around them.

Also as Kenny was saying, the whole nature of getting music to people has changed._________________Piano music page on Facebook:

Ian Dury said the reason "Hit Me" got to number one and the other songs didn't is that they weren't as good. He had a quote about no matter what you look like or how old you are if you write a song that's good enough it jumps off the table and runs down the street and makes itself a hit.
I was listening to the harmonica version of Yesterday's Men (from a Madness compilation) the other day and I thought - as good as they are at what they do - is there any way Too Many Crooks, Cartoon Violence, Buster Shuffle, or Rough Kutz would ever come up with a song like that? I like to think that if they did, even if it wasn't a hit for them, somehow the song would be made famous just through word of mouth_________________I got one art O'level it did nothing for me

Posted:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:25 am

kennybaconSpecial

Joined: 04 May 2009Posts: 833
Location: Barrow

Post subject:

Harry wrote:

Ian Dury said the reason "Hit Me" got to number one and the other songs didn't is that they weren't as good. He had a quote about no matter what you look like or how old you are if you write a song that's good enough it jumps off the table and runs down the street and makes itself a hit.
I was listening to the harmonica version of Yesterday's Men (from a Madness compilation) the other day and I thought - as good as they are at what they do - is there any way Too Many Crooks, Cartoon Violence, Buster Shuffle, or Rough Kutz would ever come up with a song like that? I like to think that if they did, even if it wasn't a hit for them, somehow the song would be made famous just through word of mouth

I would say that there are a number of tracks that I consider as brilliant songs (obviously that is open to each individuals opinion) not necessarily from the bands mentioned but in general that have never become well known tunes, and I would say it is because the band aren't well known in the first place and never will be - because their support isn't big enough, the music they play is not currently in vogue and they are not commercially promoted to compete in the mainstream nowadays.
We could look at another hit for Madness 'The Return of the Los Palmas 7' which incidentally reached no7 in the UK Singles chart, was the seventh single from the band of seven, remained in the singles chart for 7 weeks and should of been on the album '7' to complete the set!
In my opinion - Los Palmas should of been an album track at best, maybe a quirky B side - but definitely not a single, but it was a top ten hit because Madness had built a strong following at that stage, were well promoted on TV and Radio and music mags and people like me would buy anything they put out as a loyal fan - they had made it and could get away with releasing the odd 'iffy' single and it would be a success.
Different times, different music now, different artists (and mainly not bands) are in vogue these days - so few bands now could release a poor single and it would still be successful, only bands that have already made it could do it - Coldplay spring to mind, release it and it will be bought.
I am not 'dissing' Madness in any way and am still a fan and follower to this day, but just don't think many bands today have the same opportunity to make it in the same way Madness did due to changing trends.
You need to be playing the right music at the right time, and the time is definitely not now if you are a new (Mod/ Punk/ Ska) band, even new 'indie' bands struggle now because the bubble has burst on that too - would the Arctic Monkeys make it if they were just starting now? hypothetical question, but bands that make it generally do so on the back of a music wave, Madness were an integral part of the two tone/ ska wave and made a long lasting career from that- but for a band today playing similar music - they can only hope that the popular music tide turns and another wave comes in, then they have a chance of being on it and making it.

Even if you look at the humour in Madness songs and videos, you can see it in the comedy that was popular at the time when they were young, from Monty Python to Benny Hill and probably a lot in between. There isn't anything comparable in today's comedy, not on mainstream television anyway.

The singer Joe Jackson was saying in his memoir how everything is so self-consciously "cool" in music, contrived coolness. It was published in 1999 and I still think it applies.

I'd be really surprised if a new band playing purely in the two tone/mod/new wave style had the same impact. Times have moved on and young musicians are going to reflect their time. For one thing, hip hop, dance and modern r&b has been the main soundtrack for the past couple of decades. So a new band would probably reflect those influences. Nothing wrong with that per se, if the songs are strong._________________Piano music page on Facebook:

You do hear old sit com writers say back in their day the BBC would allow them to make more than one series or that the heads of BBC were more "hands off". When Mike Leigh and Alison Steadman made "Abigail's Party" it was watched by millions. It's hard to think of how anyone would get that kind of audience watching a comedy play with no one famous in it.
Liam from Oasis has been shifting lots of units lately - as far as I know that's mostly because of reviews and TV appearances - if he were a new kid starting out it would be a different story. Maybe the best way for a new band would be to collaborate with someone who has already made it like Liam - start of as a backing band or support act or song writer. Maybe they'd get their foot in the door and could then build up to an appearance on Later?_________________I got one art O'level it did nothing for me

Posted:
Mon Oct 16, 2017 7:44 am

ImaniToo Hot

Joined: 26 Apr 2008Posts: 1606
Location: Bradford

Post subject:

Harry wrote:

You do hear old sit com writers say back in their day the BBC would allow them to make more than one series or that the heads of BBC were more "hands off". When Mike Leigh and Alison Steadman made "Abigail's Party" it was watched by millions. It's hard to think of how anyone would get that kind of audience watching a comedy play with no one famous in it.
Liam from Oasis has been shifting lots of units lately - as far as I know that's mostly because of reviews and TV appearances - if he were a new kid starting out it would be a different story. Maybe the best way for a new band would be to collaborate with someone who has already made it like Liam - start of as a backing band or support act or song writer. Maybe they'd get their foot in the door and could then build up to an appearance on Later?

Comedy was far less controlled, yes. Maybe because for a long time the BBC didn't take it very seriously and gave relatively small budgets to make comedy programmes. Though it meant that a show could build its audience more organically, much like bands that would play in little pubs and clubs as a way of getting known.

In more recent years, everything is expected to be a hit from the word go. That goes for new comedy, new music, and don't even talk about football managers.

There's a great interview David Bowie did with Paxman in 1999, where he was saying even then that music meant less culturally because it's so easily accessible. This was before the real rise of the internet, which he predicted would make music no different to 'running water'.

What goes with this is the death of celebrity, which isn't altogether a bad thing. So for a new band or solo artist starting out, they're in a world where music is much less of a badge of identity. When it boils down to it, there's far less money in it even for groups or artists that make it big. Unless they license their tunes to video games or tv adverts, which we're seeing more and more._________________Piano music page on Facebook:

I was listening to the harmonica version of Yesterday's Men (from a Madness compilation) the other day and I thought - as good as they are at what they do - is there any way Too Many Crooks, Cartoon Violence, Buster Shuffle, or Rough Kutz would ever come up with a song like that? I like to think that if they did, even if it wasn't a hit for them, somehow the song would be made famous just through word of mouth

With the exception of "House of Fun" every Madness single released after Embarrassment, didn't have the wow factor (for me), they all required a number of spins and mostly became growers. At the time of Los Palmas, Madness were the most popular band in the UK, the only reason it was a hit (as Kennybacon eluded).
Yesterdays Men, again would have struggled into the back end of the charts, if not released by Madness, it only got to number 18 for them, Mad Not Mad similarly only got to number 16 in the Album charts.
As Too Many Crooks, Cartoon Violence, Buster Shuffle, and the Rough Kutz are all Ska/Reggae/2 Tone style bands I doubt they would write anything similar in style to "Yesterdays Men" but if they did, I am almost sure it would not be a hit, and could not possibly become so through word of mouth, as it's hardly likely that people going to see a Ska band are going to eulogize about a slowish tempo non Ska song.

Again Kennybacon is right, it would surprise me more than Leicester winning the Prem, if a Ska/Reggae band had a UK top ten hit, can't think of any on major labels for a start. (spunge) had a couple of mid twenty hits in the noughties whilst signed to B-Unique records.
Another B-Unique signing the "Ordinary Boys" Ska track "Boys Will Be Boys" got to number 3 of the back of Preston's appearance in Big Brother, after originally only getting to number 16 a year earlier.
If the likes of the Selecter & the Beat (Rogers & Daves) can't get major label interest, then I doubt there's much chance of the likes of Too Many Crooks, Cartoon Violence, Buster Shuffle, and the Rough Kutz getting on one.
Without label backing, you don't get airplay, therefore you don't get sales, your song doesn't get famous, simple as that.

Its always difficult to compare modern Ska/Reggae tracks to songs you grew up with, but I can say that I have thousands of modern tracks that blow out the water the vast majority of Madness output post "Absolutely".
Unfortunately modern Ska/Reggae bands also have another stumbling block to success, Ska covers bands.

Whilst piss poor renditions of Monkey Man & Lip up Fatty can be heard every week all over the country in pact venues full of Comedy Mods & middle aged nostalgia trippers, great new talent like my UK favourites "The Talks" from Hull, struggle to get over 30 people on a Friday night when I saw them in London last.
It's no wonder they only seem to play shows in Europe these days, were at least they are appreciated by large crowds.
Thank fook for the rest of the world, as I fear that less and less Ska bands writing original material in the UK will eventually lead to its demise.

Posted:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:04 pm

HarryToo Hot

Joined: 03 Jan 2009Posts: 1500
Location: London

Post subject:

Hi Juneska - you make lots of good and interesting points in your post.

The "Liar Liar" track about Nick Clegg by Captain Ska became known through word-of-mouth via Facebook (rather than a record label throwing lots of cash around) Wikipedia say it was in the top ten
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_SKA but I'm not claiming that was the work of a great songwriter just that there is still hope things can break through_________________I got one art O'level it did nothing for me

Posted:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:22 pm

JUKESKASpecial

Joined: 27 Jul 2004Posts: 531

Post subject:

Harry wrote:

Hi Juneska - you make lots of good and interesting points in your post.

The "Liar Liar" track about Nick Clegg by Captain Ska became known through word-of-mouth via Facebook (rather than a record label throwing lots of cash around) Wikipedia say it was in the top ten
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_SKA but I'm not claiming that was the work of a great songwriter just that there is still hope things can break through

Oh yes, I do remember seeing this, however I suspect it gained its success due to its political content rather than its musical prowess, (I can imagine it selling well to the student fraternity) a bit like “Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead” campaign after Thatchers death.

Without this thread going off in a tangent, I wrote a song back in the 90’s called “Working Class Traitor” the Choras was

Working class, working class Tory
Working class, working class traitor
You’ll never know just how much you bore me
You’ll never know just how much I hate yer

I had years before Thatchers death, thought about recording it (I was in a band at the time) with an ending of “Rejoice, Rejoice, the witch is dead” the rejoice a reference to her Falklands quote, maybe even a sample.

The band name would have been “The Skagils” and it would have been on an EP called “Rebel without a Clause 4”.

Never happened obviously, but I’m pretty sure it would have sold better than the protest “Ding Dong the Witch Is Dead” campaign.

Posted:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:21 pm

ImaniToo Hot

Joined: 26 Apr 2008Posts: 1606
Location: Bradford

Post subject:

For want of a word, perhaps it's a 'mistake' to look for another ska band to carry the baton and continue the legacy. I think it's more likely to be artists taking ska and 2 Tone as their inspiration, but creating something of their own that's quite different and original, and reflects the time.

As JukeSka's referred to, any cabaret band can now don a trilby and shades, do a few well-known covers guaranteed to please the crowd, and say they're a 'ska band'. That never used to be the case. Imitation isn't always the highest form of flattery. It reminds me of something Siouxsie Sioux said: Once something is easy to copy, it loses its power.

It's funny because when you look back to the 2 Tone era, after all of the bands had released their first albums, they each began to make a shift away from the traditional ska sound. It wasn't only Madness but every single 2 Tone band.

Go back further and you see that The Skatalites and many of the artists associated were constantly pushing the music forward. Within a few years of ska came rocksteady, then reggae and dub. Which is why I think looking for what the next musical development is going to be is more interesting than someone only reproducing what's been done before.

Though to come back to one basic point, if some music industry mogul decides to pump money behind a band doing ska, that's how it would chart again. Although I don't know if I'm quite ready for Lady SkaSka and (Judge) Dread Sheeran. _________________Piano music page on Facebook:

I have given up on most of the modern Ska. Stubborn Records released some great stuff and England’s Intensified hit the mark, but 99% of it (modern Ska) is utter shite. I prefer the 60’s stuff. And because there was so much of it recorded, it’s almost a never ending supply._________________Richard Eddington is innocent.