My Rant About Sasuke

My opinion on this topic is rather obvious I am not a Sasuke fan, and Sakura fan either because to me Sasuke should be punished like any other criminal. I don't buy the sentimentality that he should be forgiven for everything because he knew what he was doing in the first place, and he wasn't sorry for anything about it, and deserting the village is a major crime, and he nearly killed his teammates, and Konoha Shinobis while at it. I admit that I don't like the Uchiha Clan, and wouldn't mind if they were to get wiped in the Manga because only Itachi and Shisui should be left alive. The Sage of the six Paths was right in his decision for the Uchiha not to be chosen because their traits and personalities lead to chaos and strife because it is better to lead with love than strength of force like the first son, and this will make the Uchiha unfit to become Hokage.

You do realize that it was BECAUSE of the Sage's decision that the Uchiha/Senju or Indra/Ashura conflict began... he admited that he shouldn't have let the conflict between brothers grow to the point it did. Also the thing about Sasuke is...he was the sole survivor of a massacre that took his family, friends and everything in between when he was age 7 and by the one person he most admired and looked up. He was deceived by Itachi into killing him. In between the physicological shock of the massacre and Itachi's manipulation, Sasuke acted as most humans would...if anything Sasuke is one of the most human (for better or worse) caracter in the series. Even the Second, who hated the Uchihas, noted that they were loyal and dedicated people. And to me personally, deserting the place that caused the circunstances that lead to the death of my family isn't a crime by any stretch of mind...hell i'd tear the place down brick by brick...if anything the fact that Kishi turned him into this current path of re-integreation into the village was the only problem with story/character.

I am not forgiving Sasuke because I have my views on him, and he should not be forgiven, and what Kishimoto did by trying to reintegrate back into the village was a mistake on his part. I am also by the way a writer of Fanfiction, and I will admit that I am biased towards Sasuke and Sakura because both of them are not my favorite characters. I hate his arrogant and prideful attitude that he is better than everyone else but he acts like a spoiled brat when Naruto starts getting stronger than him because I think Neji is far a better character than Sasuke would ever be. The reason is that Neji had the same attitude that Sasuke had, and had the same notions, and Naruto changed him but Sasuke to me will always be a Emo King, and I won't forgive him what he did until he does something heroic like dying to save Naruto.

Emo King...see that's the main mistake people make about Sasuke...Obito is a Emo King...a girl he liked when he was 13 or something dies and he decides to end the world. Sasuke wanted revenge for the ones responsible for the death of his entire family...also the entire Uchiha clan is a prideful and arrogant clan...even the almighty Itachi. You may not enjoy a character (there are many i don't enjoy) but an imparcial outlook is necessary. And Neji, after from his initial backstory and rivalry with Naruto became a one-dimmensional character because his main story ended right after it began...also Sasuke's character isn't meant to be forgiven...but he's necessary because he was result of all the colateral damage created by generations of mistakes.

There is a huge difference between Itachi and Sasuke in the story he knows about the pains and misery that war brings, and he wanted peace at all costs, and his sacrifice has to be respected, and I consider Itachi to be a True hero as a Uchiha. The biggest mistake is what you said because Kishimoto shouldn't had to reintegrate Sasuke back into the village because to me he should kept Sasuke as he was but one good thing I will say is that both Sasuke and Naruto will fight to the death because if Kishimoto said that they are both fated to fight then it will happen. I also want that Naruto and Sasuke settle their differences once and for all even if takes them both to lose their lives because Sasuke has never respected Naruto's skill as a Ninja, and he acted like a spoiled brat in more than one occassion because he can never accept anyone that is not a Uchiha to be stronger than him, and I for once want to see someone put him in his place. You can tell that I don't like arrogant and prideful people like him it gives me great joy for a underdog put someone like him in his place. I even like Maito Gai and Lee more than Sasuke as characters because I admire their tenacity even though they act weird but they have worked hard all their lives for what they have acquired. I have to admire their flames of youth but Sasuke is very unyouthful in my opinion.

Itachi...while an amazing, wise and kind-hearted character...was to me the most flawed and arrogant of them all...if Obito/Madara's actions started the war...Itachi's escalated them...his innability to acknowledge his brother's strength, his manipulation and his over-estimation of his own capacities...lead him to be a failure at the end of it all...even he admits this. So while he was a fighter to the end and tried his best...he failed. And the Uchiha pridefulness is a general flaw, not just Sasuke's. Also Naruto is hardly humble...and one thing i don't like is characters like him who act as paragons of good, because it's difficult to relate, because no one is 100% like this...if he does defeat Sasuke this will just end like every other cookie-cutter story of good vs evil. Lee i can agree being an underdog, but Guy has been a beast almost since the story started and only got better from there on out.

My opinion will not change you but my favorite character in the series is still Naruto, and nothing will change that, and Sasuke to me I simply despise even though I do want him to become friends with Naruto but if he dies I won't shed a tear for him. The problem with any stories is that you become attached with certain characters, and despise others, and I don't hate Sasuke that badly but I hate his Clan in general not him because I do feel some pity for him. The thing I admire with Naruto is his ability to change others, and he never gives up, and talking about hatred he could have easily turned into revenge since I do know that the village didn't treat him so nicely. I also think that Kishimoto pictured Naruto's life a little too rosy because I think that the story would have been better if the villagers and the people around the vilage would have attacked and given Naruto severe beatings due to the hatred of the Kyubi because Kurama was responsible for killing a lot of families of Shinobi Clans, and to me it is human nature for someone to take revenge on that because I never saw Naruto get attacked at all by any villager, and in the Fanfictions fics that I read the story is more realistically.

In my opinion the only characters that aren’t complete failures are Sasuke and Naruto. While both have at some point in the story tried to handle everything own, both have stayed true to their ideals. While Naruto wanted the Hokage title for acceptance and acknowledgement at the start of the series, He’s reasons for acquiring it now is to have the strength to protect his friends and create true peace for the ninja world at large. Sasuke on the other hand wanted vengence for the massacre of his clan. Upon battling Itachi and learning the truth about his reasons of why he did what he did, Sasuke took it upon himself to Avenge the memory of Itachi by destroying the leaf. Something that has caused him to fall deeper into his clans “Curse of Hatred”. But upon meeting itachi during the war and speaking with the 4 Hokage’s. Sasuke decided that if he continued on his current path, He would only be insulting Itachi’s memory. To that conclusion sasuke wanted to become Hokage, while not wanting to protect others but make it so meaningless sacrifices such as Itachi’s would never happen again. Both having good enough intentions of what they will accomplish after the war is over allowed the SoSP to intrust not one but both of them with his power. Something he should have done centuries ago with his Indra and Ashura.

Where did you get the idea that Kishimoto is thinking about making Sasuke Hokage? Am I missing something? Is it because Sasuke said he wanted to be Hokage back in chapter 631? Just because a character says that want something to happen doesn't mean Kishimoto intends for it to come true. Kiba also said he wants to be Hokage. Also, who becomes Hokage is dependent on who gets elected by the Village, and judging by the reactions of the Konoha Shinobi in Chapter 631, not many are in favor of having Sasuke as Hokage. Some of them felt the same way you do: that Sasuke should be punished for his crimes. It seems you're also completely disregarding the fact that there is already someone with the position of Hokage. I really don't think you need to worry about Sasuke becoming Hokage as long as Tsunade and Naruto are around. Unless Tsunade dies and Naruto offers to let Sasuke have the position in his stead (which also could happen seeing as Hashirama did just that with Madara) and Sasuke does something during this war that makes all the Konoha Shinobi change their mind about him, it doesn't matter if Sasuke wants to be Hokage or not. Ultimately though, it is in the hands of Kishimoto, and this is his story to tell. If he thinks that having Sasuke become Hokage is best way for Naruto to end, that's what he's gonna do and we're all just going to have to deal with it.

Im not saying kishi thinks sasuke will become hokage, far from it actually. The only thing I’m almost certain that kishi is hinting is that Naruto and Sasuke both will realize that they must work together to accomplish the peace and ideals for the ninja world.

I do want your honest opinion should Sasuke be Hokage or should Naruto become Hokage because I think that Sasuke is unfit for this position because he has always thought of himself before others, and I don't think that Sasuke is the sacrificing type that would risk himself to save others, which is a requirement for a Hokage to me he has always been too selfish.

Honestly i think Naruto should become hokage but to leave sasuke out completely just brings back all the problems that have occurred with the sages family and hashirama and madara. Though the first was naive to think anyone would consider Madara for the title of Hokage, to not have him be his advisor or give him a title equal to his was what was his real mistake.

I personally think Naruto deserves to be Hokage over Sasuke. He's already known as the Hero of the Leaf, so he's already shown that he's more than capable of protecting the village, as well as willing to put his life on the line for it. That doesn't mean I don't think Sasuke might one day be capable of having the title. He just needs to sort some things out before I would consider him a prime candidate for Hokage.

You are suggesting that if Naruto becomes Hokage he should make Sasuke his top advisor like in charge of military matters but I also remember that you need two advisors, and I hate to say this but Shikimaru would be the a great choice for him as his second advisor.

Even if people accept it or not, Sasuke is one of the top written characters in the series. Most his actions are justified, his character actually develops, unlike most others' and so on. Also people misuse the word "emo" too much without even knowing its implications.

Also people's view of Naruto is biased, he has become Jesus only recently. It is HE who is more "emo" The very reason why Kurama managed to influence him in the past was because of his own hatred. Yes, I bet he wanted to fracture the villagers' skulls for shaming him. Also Sasuke is the more mature one, Naruto forcefully wanted to "save" Sasuke from Orochimaru despite him having been there on his very own consent lol. Talk about stupid.

Congratulations Elveonora. You are so far the first (and foreseeable) only reason I am posting on the forums.

Sasuke is in no way mature. Both he and Naruto are incredibly childish, but Sasuke's constant "kill 'em all" tendency to solve problems and his general arse of a personality drops him down quite a few pegs.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
Congratulations Elveonora. You are so far the first (and foreseeable) only reason I am posting on the forums.

Sasuke is in no way mature. Both he and Naruto are incredibly childish, but Sasuke's constant "kill 'em all" tendency to solve problems and his general arse of a personality drops him down quite a few pegs.

Has anyone ever told you that you have a way with words, Ulti-sama? XD That said, I agree with you.

@elveonora Not trying to disrespect you or anything but by reading your comments on naruto's page and other pages that deal with things associated to him , i feel or sense your hostility to the character

For the time ive been here i dont usually comment but i do follow the talk pages and this forum, From that i can safely say that most folks here are biased towards certain characters myself included lol, especially those that edit the character pages but regardless of that this wikia is a great place for info for people who are now into naruto or those who wish to recollect but even if it might be difficult i hope more neutrality is showed when it comes to the stating factual info and descriptions to the pages of this wikia.TNX

I'm biased to understanding people. Despite being a story, people react differently to things in our own world. You cannot change that and how someone reacts does not change their value. Sasuke, after having his entire "family" massacred, went down a path he thought was right. And all-in-all, in the end, all he was doing was brooding in a lair, so to speak. Yes, technically A lost his forearm, and other things occurred. But don't forget or downplay what Itachi has done to try and help Sasuke, or the fact Naruto never gave up trying to help him, and still considered him a friend.

With this current war and things that are going on, and the general premise that is Naruto and Sasuke trying to stop the Indra V Ashura feud, we should lay down our formal notions and hope that Sasuke, a teen who was depressed and didn't have anyone to help him, is trying to change. I've simply never understood the "Sasugay" mentality people online have for him. I encourage understanding. I even understand Madara, and don't view him as a bad character, simply an ends-justify-the-means guy going the wrong way like Sasuke did.

Additionally people tend to fault sasuke for alot more than he has done.

Can anyone actually tell me what sasuke has done wrong as in shippuden so far?
Yes- he is a deserter, a missing ninja through and through, but the reason that deserting a village is such an heinous crime is that missing ninjas hold valuable secrets about their villages. 1.) sasuke has never leaked any Intel about the leaf to any other village, so he's not a threat, 2.) sasuke actually knows no secret information about the leaf (because he's an uchiha, so he'd be kept in the dark anyways for fear of revolt), and 3.) his new resolve is to become hokage, meaning he is technically considered as a leaf villager again. besides tsunade's benevolence will not allow for sasuke to be harmed, which also mounts a strategic military advntage for the leaf seeing as sasuke is the last uchiha (and killing him would be a crippling loss for the leaf militia wise).

Now you may be able to say that he attacked the kage summit, but what actually came of that? if i remember correctly, Sasuke essentially got his arse whooped for those 5-6 episodes. the only thing he actually did wrong there ( in real life crime wise) was trespassing and making the raikage lose his arm.

Sasuke killed a kage? while that may be true, Danzo was a man who had assassination plans in place for both hiruzen and tsunade. it would be equivalent to me going back in time and assassinating lee harvey oswald before he could assassinate JFK. it may not be right- but its better than the latter.

Oh, sasuke Kidnapped a jinchurriki? Nope! that attempt failed. Additionally, The leaf, the sound, the akatsuki, nor the cloud do not have any treaties with each other. therefore sasuke didn't break any dipolmatic bonds in his defense.

So i still pose the question "What has sasuke actually done" well we know for sure that sasuke is responsible for the death of two akatuski members, both of which dealt crippling blows to the earth, the sand, and the leaf village.

Attempted to capture (and lead to the death) of Killer B of Kumo (International incident. It was clearly obvious he was an Uchiha and the rest of the ninja world know he had to come from Konoha, which brings the question "Why is he still alive?")

His desire was to destroy Konoha and kill everyone in the village.

He killed the Candidate Hokage (Big big crime for Konoha)

He revived Orochimaru (that in of itself is criminal, considering the mess he has already done and is likely to cause)

He still intends to kill Naruto, who is at this point Ninja Jesus.

He's done a lot of crap. Like, a real lot.

Also congrats you got me to post in this thread again. Who's gonna be number 3?

@ThomasM115: People are free to have any discussion they want about Naruto, if you don't like the type of discussion in a thread, simply do not read it and do not reply. Also, do not Kudos your own posts.

Haha xD One question the Sasuke haters should ask themselves is what would they do if they were him. I doubt they would have been just like: "Oh cool, everyone's murdered and the government did it, who cares? I'm gonna just let it be, justice doesn't matter, we all are sheep anyway. Oh, and I also like completely forgive my brother for having done something he didn't even have any choice in, makes sense, let's just all smile and enjoy the suffering of life together"

Elveonora wrote:
Even if people accept it or not, Sasuke is one of the top written characters in the series. Most his actions are justified, his character actually develops, unlike most others' and so on. Also people misuse the word "emo" too much without even knowing its implications.

Also people's view of Naruto is biased, he has become Jesus only recently. It is HE who is more "emo" The very reason why Kurama managed to influence him in the past was because of his own hatred. Yes, I bet he wanted to fracture the villagers' skulls for shaming him. Also Sasuke is the more mature one, Naruto forcefully wanted to "save" Sasuke from Orochimaru despite him having been there on his very own consent lol. Talk about stupid.

Taynio wrote:
With this current war and things that are going on, and the general premise that is Naruto and Sasuke trying to stop the Indra V Ashura feud, we should lay down our formal notions and hope that Sasuke, a teen who was depressed and didn't have anyone to help him, is trying to change. I've simply never understood the "Sasugay" mentality people online have for him. I encourage understanding. I even understand Madara, and don't view him as a bad character, simply an ends-justify-the-means guy going the wrong way like Sasuke did.

Sasuke's actions are justified, yes. And your view towards Madara, I agree with you :D

Taynio wrote:
With this current war and things that are going on, and the general premise that is Naruto and Sasuke trying to stop the Indra V Ashura feud, we should lay down our formal notions and hope that Sasuke, a teen who was depressed and didn't have anyone to help him, is trying to change. I've simply never understood the "Sasugay" mentality people online have for him. I encourage understanding. I even understand Madara, and don't view him as a bad character, simply an ends-justify-the-means guy going the wrong way like Sasuke did.

Sasuke's actions are justified, yes. And your view towards Madara, I agree with you :D

A lot of the characters in Naruto are good people that have just lost their faith in their previous beliefs of world piece. So i dont't get why some people hate when a previous antagonist goes through actual character development and changes his/her views to their previous thinking.

Taynio wrote:
With this current war and things that are going on, and the general premise that is Naruto and Sasuke trying to stop the Indra V Ashura feud, we should lay down our formal notions and hope that Sasuke, a teen who was depressed and didn't have anyone to help him, is trying to change. I've simply never understood the "Sasugay" mentality people online have for him. I encourage understanding. I even understand Madara, and don't view him as a bad character, simply an ends-justify-the-means guy going the wrong way like Sasuke did.

Sasuke's actions are justified, yes. And your view towards Madara, I agree with you :D

A lot of the characters in Naruto are good people that have just lost their faith in their previous beliefs of world piece. So i dont't get why some people hate when a previous antagonist goes through actual character development and changes his/her views to their previous thinking.

Exactly! No one is a bad guy in Naruto (if we're only talking about the canon parts). Madara's Eye of the Moon Plan is even for his desire to have peace (though in the wrong way). I am glad when some bad guy turns into good guy. It makes the characters in Narutoverse more realistic and not cliche.

I am not a big fan of Sasuke (there are times I hate him- such as when he decided to destroy Konoha- or like him- when he decided to be Hokage). However, I disagree that Sasuke is totally unfit to be Hokage. Like iowndisciti said, Sasuke hasn't done horrible crimes yet. Heck, anyone can leave Konoha as long as that person won't do anything against it (his plan to destroy Konoha was just a plan). Raikage losing an arm isn't Sasuke's fault. (He wasn't the one who cut his arm. The Raikage should have been more careful of Amaterasu. Just kidding)

Sasuke reviving Orochimaru isn't a big crime, especially when Orochimaru revived the Hokage, let them help during the war, and also helped Tsunade.

POSITIVE:
Sasuke has shown in Part I that he can sacrifice himself for the sake of others. During Team 7's fight with Haku, Sasuke was able to protect Naruto from the senbon (if I remember correctly). Also, Sasuke is the only guy in the series who really seemed like a teenager here. He's undergoing confusion in life.

NEGATIVE:
Sasuke is more stupid than Naruto. He's only smart during battle, but how he handles his problems is like an animal.

Sasuke is a terrible candidate for Hokage. Absolutely horrendous. His attack on the Five Kage Summit would be akin to one of us going to a meeting of the United Nations, with all those heads of states, and just start blowing shit up.

Know where that will land you?

Dead.

Labeled an international terrorist, and rightly so, just as Sasuke was. He tried to kill Naruto, a Konoha shinobi, during their first reunion. Tried to kill Sakura, a Konoha chunin, during their reunion after the Summit. In the same meeting, he tried to (and publicly stated his intent to) kill Kakashi, a famed Konoha jonin and candidate Hokage. Let's not forget that, despite how big a douchebag he was, he killed Danzo; one of the elders of Konoha.

Did I miss something?

Oh, yes. He made an assassination attempt at B (I consider the capture of a jinchuriki an assassination attempt, given the end result of a successful capture); an integral member of Kumogakure, causing an international incident, not to mention that in doing so he attacked several other Kumogakure shinobi to learn B's location, and attempted to take their tailed beast from them for Akatsuki.

Resurrecting Orochimaru is a big no-no despite the help it brought the war since, for all Sasuke or anyone else knew, Orochimaru could've started a killing spree that made the war worse. Given his criminal nature, it wouldn't have been beyond him to do so.

And the fact that you discredit his "plan" to destroy Konoha is hilarious. He told three Konoha shinobi (his former teammates, I might add) that he planned to kill every last man, woman, and child in Konoha and then burn the village to the ground. If a solider from our military told any of his fellow soldiers that, I can guarantee you he'd be brought up for treason, arrested, and imprisoned for that alone.

Point of all of this?

Sasuke being a candidate for Hokage is about as likely as my future acting career. Non-existent. It'd be like the United States capturing Saddam Hussein and then making him President of the United States. It just isn't happening.

Sasuke is starting to come around (maybe?) but the point is, the guy has a soul blacker than my morning coffee, so just no.

Most people in sasuke's postion who do the same or worse, to me sasuke is the most human character in naruto and i can see how that irks people who expect superhuman morals from fictional characters without realising in the real world the sasukes' are more than the narutos' by a wide margin, lol

Whether itachi did what he did to save konoha at large, it doesn't change the fact of it being an unthinkabele and vile , at the same time i'm not saying the uchiha were innocent but one cannot compare morals and mentality of the harsh shinobi world to that of normal civilian world. i like both sasuke and naruto for different reasons but i really relate to sasuke way more. In the real world naruto's mentality and personality is too idealistic for most people to take him serious much less change the world.

One last thing i absolutely detest about current naruto's character is kishi making him look stupid in a forced way, making unfunny face faults and repetitive corny lines after having him mature during the pain and kyuubi mode arcs, smh

Also, the logic that "someone in Sasuke's shoes would do the same thing" is so beyond my comprehension its laughable.

Does that somehow lessen the crime?

Do you know how many people have lost their families to murder, natural disaster, or war and not gone on murderous genocidal killing sprees? And did you know that even if they did, they're still going to be punished for doing so because they're still committing a crime?

Its the old saying, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Just because Sasuke had a bad childhood and suffered a lot doesn't mean you just close your eyes and pretend he's justified in what he's doing. He's not. He is evil. His intentions are also evil. There isn't a good bone in his body.

Ten Tailed Fox wrote:
Also, the logic that "someone in Sasuke's shoes would do the same thing" is so beyond my comprehension its laughable.

Does that somehow lessen the crime?

Do you know how many people have lost their families to murder, natural disaster, or war and not gone on murderous genocidal killing sprees? And did you know that even if they did, they're still going to be punished for doing so because they're still committing a crime?

Its the old saying, "Two wrongs don't make a right."

Just because Sasuke had a bad childhood and suffered a lot doesn't mean you just close your eyes and pretend he's justified in what he's doing. He's not. He is evil. His intentions are also evil. There isn't a good bone in his body.

Madara in that sense is less evil because all he wants is peace. Sasuke wanted revenge and for Konoha to burn. That's not a bad argument, tbh. It's a good way of thinking about it. However, people can change, and just because people may have evil intentions doesn't mean they are evil. Evil people don't care, and Sasuke is trying to change.

This. I think that generally, truly evil people don't exist. Only those who have some sort of brain disorder which disallows them to feel any empathy or so, only they can "just choose" to do something evil.

Generally, we do "evil" things because we let our emotions take precedence over rational thought. Like we try to justify our wrong-doings with others having done wrong-doings to us, eye for an eye so to speak. But doesn't avenging your murdered loved one by making sure the murderer meets justice equal to spitting on the murdered one's grave? That would have been retarded if Sasuke just chose to be like: "those who shall be punished shall be left/remain unpunished"

Sometimes we do something evil for what we consider the greater good. This may not be appropriate, but it REALLY is just an example. If you handled me a gun and told me to choose between my relative and some stranger I could care less about, I could in theory shoot the less relevant individual without as much as a second thought. I would have chose to do an evil act. Tho regret and realization would kick in seconds later obviously. But would have been letting my relative die the better alternative, if you can call it that? I wouldn't have committed a murder, but my family or friend would be dead, so...

To Sasuke, his family and clansmen mattered more than some unrelated Konoha villager selling fruits a mile away. And relatives matter more to the majority of us. Deny it or not, in your place Foxie, Ultimate or whoever, you would do the same.

Also stating that Sasuke's soul is more black than a coffee is as untrue as it can get. Call me crazy, but I read something about respecting his brother's will by instead of pursuing revenge, attempting to get position in the governing duties to make sure such a thing won't happen again. He has realized that revenge doesn't mean justice, it won't bring dead back only more suffering, how isn't that good?

When Naruto almost got merked, Sasuke came to his defense. When everyone else was like "Oh yay Sasuke's here", he had a picture of Team Kakashi in his mind with a sword cutting through Naruto going "Only me...only me!" or something along those lines.

Unless you are on that serious kool-aid with his goodness, he still clearly plans to kill Naruto.

I don't blame you, Sasuke changes his mind more often than a woman has periods. His actions and words are contradictory all the time.
But I believe Naruto's death still was within the whole "I will avenge by destroying Konoha" mindset, which is by now out-of-date. There's no valid reason to kill Naruto now, why would he?
He literary wanted to have Konoha burn before Naruto's eyes, pretty much wanted to give Naruto a valid reason for their life or death fight. He now wants to be Hokage, killing Naruto the hero of the ninja world is out of the question.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
Except the scenario I said was during the war, against Ten-Tails Jinchuriki Tobi, which was quite possibly no more than 30 minutes ago.

^ This. Sasuke still very much wants to cut Naruto into a million pieces. Also, irrelevant, but your opinion on there being no "truly evil people". The fact that Adolf Hitler existed blows that entire premise to hell. The estimated 21 million people he and his regime mercilessly slaughtered would venomously disagree with you.

And Sasuke hasn't given a flying flip about logic over the past.... two years? Three? Killing Naruto, while still wanting to become Hokage, is still a very likely thing considering his psychotic mind set.

I am sorry, Foxy, but as much as we agree lately... I couldn't help but burst out laughing out laugh when you brought Godwin's Law into this, lol. But despite how Hitler was on one aspect, I am sure he was a loving person with those around him he didn't want to kill, and behaved like a human before what had occurred.

Also, can someone give the chapter where Sasuke still said he wanted to kill him? Also, it's common for rivals to say that phrase even though they're friends, even siblings, so I wouldn't be surprised nor find it evil or weird.

Define "evil"... He was a racist and wanted to annihilate those he deemed genetically and culturally inferior. But aren't all humans racists tho? We kill "lesser" animals to eat them (or just for sport or other stupid reasons) with little to no morals attached, that's because they are "inferior" and we "superior" or so we believe.
Hitler deemed other human ethnic groups/sub-rases inferior, that's why he felt no empathy for them.
So I'm not even sure if evil has any general definition. What is evil to one may seem alright to another or what is alright to one may seem evil to another.

If you actually would read the discussion, you'd realize no one compared Sasuke to Hitler. Hitler was only used as an example to explain to Elevenora that "no truly evil people exist" is a bogus claim to make.

Except that is all opinion, Foxy, and not logic-based. In fact, people still have philosophy and psychology debates regarding it. Which makes all this entirely moot and nonsensical. Why is it even continuing?

Congratulations Iloveinoxxx. Despite being a user I have had to reprimand on more than once occasion, you have earned my first Kudos. I'd given you a medal to mark the occasion but I have no way of making one.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
Congratulations Iloveinoxxx. Despite being a user I have had to reprimand on more than once occasion, you have earned my first Kudos. I'd given you a medal to mark the occasion but I have no way of making one.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
Congratulations Iloveinoxxx. Despite being a user I have had to reprimand on more than once occasion, you have earned my first Kudos. I'd given you a medal to mark the occasion but I have no way of making one.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
Congratulations Iloveinoxxx. Despite being a user I have had to reprimand on more than once occasion, you have earned my first Kudos. I'd given you a medal to mark the occasion but I have no way of making one.

Except, nobody was comparing Sasuke to Hitler whatsoever. >_>

Bringing Hitler into it in any context is drawing a comparison. And Foxy did bring up Hitler and his evil, comparing it to Sasuke in a sense. Hitler = truly evil person, Sasuke = truly evil person. That's the line of reasoning that was used. It was not a direct comparison, but still. I personally, even as a Jew, don't believe in Hitler being truly evil.

Noweeaboohoo wrote:
This is a topic that's by far too delicate to discuss in an anime-wiki IMO.

It would be a lot better if people in general, here and off the wiki, were more willing to be objective and look back over their opinions, evidence provided, and etc to become better informed, then conceding to that new evaluation if unrefutable. But this is getting off topic.

Elveonora wrote:
This. I think that generally, truly evil people don't exist. Only those who have some sort of brain disorder which disallows them to feel any empathy or so, only they can "just choose" to do something evil.

Generally, we do "evil" things because we let our emotions take precedence over rational thought. Like we try to justify our wrong-doings with others having done wrong-doings to us, eye for an eye so to speak. But doesn't avenging your murdered loved one by making sure the murderer meets justice equal to spitting on the murdered one's grave? That would have been retarded if Sasuke just chose to be like: "those who shall be punished shall be left/remain unpunished"

Sometimes we do something evil for what we consider the greater good. This may not be appropriate, but it REALLY is just an example. If you handled me a gun and told me to choose between my relative and some stranger I could care less about, I could in theory shoot the less relevant individual without as much as a second thought. I would have chose to do an evil act. Tho regret and realization would kick in seconds later obviously. But would have been letting my relative die the better alternative, if you can call it that? I wouldn't have committed a murder, but my family or friend would be dead, so...

To Sasuke, his family and clansmen mattered more than some unrelated Konoha villager selling fruits a mile away. And relatives matter more to the majority of us. Deny it or not, in your place Foxie, Ultimate or whoever, you would do the same.

Also stating that Sasuke's soul is more black than a coffee is as untrue as it can get. Call me crazy, but I read something about respecting his brother's will by instead of pursuing revenge, attempting to get position in the governing duties to make sure such a thing won't happen again. He has realized that revenge doesn't mean justice, it won't bring dead back only more suffering, how isn't that good?

Very reasonable. This thread has become really interesting. I also believe the same way.

Why would anyone call Sasuke evil? He is a weak-willed boy in his teens. He had his family killed and was manipulated by Itachi, Orochimaru and ObiTobi. He was driven mad by the world, but that doesn't make him evil.

Sasuke had no one to guide him ever since his clan was massacred. He had no one to share his feelings to, unlike Naruto, who had Iruka and the ramen store owner. This series is most likely trying to convey the message that not all the bad guys here are as bad as we thought, hence the flashbacks.

No one besides you used the word "excuse" until now, I checked via ctrl+f. So please don't make things up.

A messed up childhood is not an excuse for attempted genocide, but a reason for a mindset which gives birth to such an act. There is no true evil or good in this world, everything works by the principle of cause and effect. There is no effect without a cause and no cause without an effect. That's basic Buddhism, by the way.

Sasuke's messed up childhood and the corruption by other people led to a mindset which deemed it okay to kill an entire village. But this has since changed, hasn't it?

As Novelist said, the main point of the whole Naruto manga is "be good, whatever the circumstance" or so.

They don't have to use the word "excuse". What they're saying is that Sasuke is somehow a redeemable character, in terms of his goals and ideology, because he had a crummy childhood. That somehow, as one of them put it, because he didn't have anyone to talk to about his "feelings" after the clan was massacred, that makes his genocidal tendencies completely normal (it isn't) and understandable (its not).

Which is, by definition, an excuse.

And while yes, you're right, Sasuke seems to have stopped wanting to kill the entire village (doesn't redeem the fact that he fully intended to before this arc began), he still, as pointed out by TheUltimate, wants to kill Naruto.

Can someone provide a chapter where he says that in a context OTHER than Rival/brother/best friend, and something that isn't said in pretty much in manga/anime where there is a rival/competing brother and/or best friend?

I also doubt he wants to kill Naruto, there's no reason to do it. I think you're severely overreaching currently.

Fleaky wrote:
Now you just defending irrationally Sasuke actions... real problem that even 15 years old sasuke not thinking about this.

And other people are irrationally attacking Sasuke's character. Yet the funny thing is Elv is being more objective than the others, which I find surprising because they almost never are; they're one of the most obstinate people on the wiki.

IndxcvNovelist wrote:
Sasuke had no one to guide him ever since his clan was massacred. He had no one to share his feelings to, unlike Naruto, who had Iruka and the ramen store owner.

i disagree. Kakashi could be Iruka for Sasuke.

Nah. Kakashi and Sasuke's relationship are strictly trainer-trainee only. Naruto and Iruka's are a whole lot different. Both lost their parents and they consider each other as brothers. Besides, we know Kakashi's personality. He's not that type of person to sympathize with something like that.

Ten Tailed Fox wrote:
They don't have to use the word "excuse". What they're saying is that Sasuke is somehow a redeemable character, in terms of his goals and ideology, because he had a crummy childhood. That somehow, as one of them put it, because he didn't have anyone to talk to about his "feelings" after the clan was massacred, that makes his genocidal tendencies completely normal (it isn't) and understandable (its not).

Which is, by definition, an excuse.

No, his tendencies are not normal, but they have a reason. Sasuke was traumatized as a child, corrupted by other people with no help from anyone. That led to a destructive mindset, which is perfectly comprehensible (not the mindset, but its existence). You can't condemn him for having such a mindset, only for acting accordingly.

Taynio wrote:
Can someone provide a chapter where he says that in a context OTHER than Rival/brother/best friend, and something that isn't said in pretty much in manga/anime where there is a rival/competing brother and/or best friend?

I also doubt he wants to kill Naruto, there's no reason to do it. I think you're severely overreaching currently.

Well, I would just tell you to go read Part II, since Sasuke is rather adamant about it. But. You want kill quotes? Kill quotes you get.

Chapter 307; Page 14-17

"Still, the one thing I can say to you is that back then, I chose to spare you on nothing more than a whim of mine. Come to think of it, becoming Hokage is a dream of yours. If you had time to go looking for me, you would have been better off training, don't you think... Naruto? And that's why, this time... I'll kill you... on a whim of mine."

Chapter 485; Page 7

(To Naruto) "By killing every last one of you until the Leaf is crushed forever, any link to the Uchiha will be severed and our name will be purified!"

Chapter 485; Page 15

(To Naruto) "I'm going to kill you and every last person in your village."

Do you want me to go on? Because I have more.

Seelentau wrote:

Ten Tailed Fox wrote:
They don't have to use the word "excuse". What they're saying is that Sasuke is somehow a redeemable character, in terms of his goals and ideology, because he had a crummy childhood. That somehow, as one of them put it, because he didn't have anyone to talk to about his "feelings" after the clan was massacred, that makes his genocidal tendencies completely normal (it isn't) and understandable (its not).

Which is, by definition, an excuse.

No, his tendencies are not normal, but they have a reason. Sasuke was traumatized as a child, corrupted by other people with no help from anyone. That led to a destructive mindset, which is perfectly comprehensible (not the mindset, but its existence). You can't condemn him for having such a mindset, only for acting accordingly.

Yes I can. Anymore that I would condemn any other criminal for doing the exact same thing.

Taynio wrote:
Can someone provide a chapter where he says that in a context OTHER than Rival/brother/best friend, and something that isn't said in pretty much in manga/anime where there is a rival/competing brother and/or best friend?

I also doubt he wants to kill Naruto, there's no reason to do it. I think you're severely overreaching currently.

Well, I would just tell you to go read Part II, since Sasuke is rather adamant about it. But. You want kill quotes? Kill quotes you get.

Chapter 307; Page 14-17

"Still, the one thing I can say to you is that back then, I chose to spare you on nothing more than a whim of mine. Come to think of it, becoming Hokage is a dream of yours. If you had time to go looking for me, you would have been better off training, don't you think... Naruto? And that's why, this time... I'll kill you... on a whim of mine."

Chapter 485; Page 7

(To Naruto) "By killing every last one of you until the Leaf is crushed forever, any link to the Uchiha will be severed and our name will be purified!"

Chapter 485; Page 15

(To Naruto) "I'm going to kill you and every last person in your village."

Do you want me to go on? Because I have more.

Those quotes are two hundred chapters ago. I would really appreciate it if you can tell me the latest chapter when Sasuke said that he wants to kill Naruto.

Good, evil, neutral...the problem is always how someone reacts to what the world does to him/her. Sasuke may have had a traumatic experience, but he chose to dwell in the past instead of working for a better future. That has no excuses whatsoever. Madara and Obito are undoubtedly evil, but they somehow had an objective that others might have considered even good for mankind, the only problem is the way they were planning to do it. Sasuke seemingly has decided to accept what happened and to make sure that it won't happen ever again, but I wonder to what extent he's going to lower himself to get accepted by the village in order become Hokage. That's the difference between him and Naruto. The latter wants to become Hokage in order to be acknowledged, but he will protect the village anyway, while Sasuke seems like "I'll protect the village, but only if you let me be Hokage and do it my way". If this attitude of him changes and the village feels like having someone who planned its destruction as Hokage, I have nothing to say to that.

Taynio wrote:
Can someone provide a chapter where he says that in a context OTHER than Rival/brother/best friend, and something that isn't said in pretty much in manga/anime where there is a rival/competing brother and/or best friend?

I also doubt he wants to kill Naruto, there's no reason to do it. I think you're severely overreaching currently.

Well, I would just tell you to go read Part II, since Sasuke is rather adamant about it. But. You want kill quotes? Kill quotes you get.

Chapter 307; Page 14-17

"Still, the one thing I can say to you is that back then, I chose to spare you on nothing more than a whim of mine. Come to think of it, becoming Hokage is a dream of yours. If you had time to go looking for me, you would have been better off training, don't you think... Naruto? And that's why, this time... I'll kill you... on a whim of mine."

Chapter 485; Page 7

(To Naruto) "By killing every last one of you until the Leaf is crushed forever, any link to the Uchiha will be severed and our name will be purified!"

Chapter 485; Page 15

(To Naruto) "I'm going to kill you and every last person in your village."

Do you want me to go on? Because I have more.

Those quotes are two hundred chapters ago. I would really appreciate it if you can tell me the latest chapter when Sasuke said that he wants to kill Naruto.

Ah, yes, very well.

Naruto chapter 639; pages 18-19 (pages may vary by one or two, considering I had to look it up on MangaPanda and they like to put a ton of art at the beginning of each chapter, but its around there.)

Also making a note that just because it was said 200 chapters ago doesn't delete the validity. He asked for specific quotes where Sasuke said he wanted to kill Naruto in a non-brotherly way (didn't know there was a brotherly way to say "I'll kill you", but whatever) and I did so.

Well, I would just tell you to go read Part II, since Sasuke is rather adamant about it. But. You want kill quotes? Kill quotes you get.

Chapter 307; Page 14-17

"Still, the one thing I can say to you is that back then, I chose to spare you on nothing more than a whim of mine. Come to think of it, becoming Hokage is a dream of yours. If you had time to go looking for me, you would have been better off training, don't you think... Naruto? And that's why, this time... I'll kill you... on a whim of mine."

Chapter 485; Page 7

(To Naruto) "By killing every last one of you until the Leaf is crushed forever, any link to the Uchiha will be severed and our name will be purified!"

Chapter 485; Page 15

(To Naruto) "I'm going to kill you and every last person in your village."

Do you want me to go on? Because I have more.

Seelentau wrote:

Ten Tailed Fox wrote:
They don't have to use the word "excuse". What they're saying is that Sasuke is somehow a redeemable character, in terms of his goals and ideology, because he had a crummy childhood. That somehow, as one of them put it, because he didn't have anyone to talk to about his "feelings" after the clan was massacred, that makes his genocidal tendencies completely normal (it isn't) and understandable (its not).

Which is, by definition, an excuse.

No, his tendencies are not normal, but they have a reason. Sasuke was traumatized as a child, corrupted by other people with no help from anyone. That led to a destructive mindset, which is perfectly comprehensible (not the mindset, but its existence). You can't condemn him for having such a mindset, only for acting accordingly.

Yes I can. Anymore that I would condemn any other criminal for doing the exact same thing.

I've read part II, hence why I'm sarcastically asking you to provide a source. And you failed that by providing sources of when Sasuke was still in "revenge-mode" and before he spoke with and fought alongside Itachi. Don't forget Sasuke also heard what Itachi told Kabuto. Or the fact Sasuke has announced plans to change Konoha instead of destroy it to make sure no one does a conspiracy again, etc. So please, do go on. Bring a smile to my face by proving yourself right. Though it'd be easier for you to do it with a quote when Naruto and Sasuke meet up during the war.

Generally isn't more about crimes and punishment?
Sasuke's known crimes
- Defecting from his village
- Assaulting shinobi from various villages (notable Leaf shinobi and Killer B)
- Accomplice in Orochimaru's experiments
- Attacking the Leaders of 6 nations at a summit
- Killing Danzo

- Defection - that is an internal matter to the Hidden Leaf. They would determine what is considered "appropriate". If the Kage considers his punishment has been served, then the rest of the military will need to go with it. nothing says individuals need to be happy with it.
- Assualt cases - most of the seen fights were against Kakashi, Naruto, Sakura, Sai, and Yamato. Most of them are also wanting him back. Killer B's attitudes ... he'd probably shrug it off.
- Attacking the leaders - probably a mixed bag. seeing as most of his crimes were against the Leaf, they would probably consider his punishment an internal matter to the Leaf and simply suggest something appropriate be done. however, the Raikage did lose an arm in his fight.
- we do not know how involved Sasuke was involved with the warped experiments done on people, other than a few instances of rounding up escaped prisoners. it is likely there is few left who knew any level of involvement, and since Orochimaru was resurrected, he could always just say Sasuke was never involved and no 1 would know if it was truth or lie.
- killing Danzo - probably the most justified killing in the storyline, but he was the appointed leader of the Leaf at the time.

I don't see a good scenario for Sasuke.
The easiest solution is death fighting for the greater good. Getting killed by Madara or self sacrifice sort of thing. This lets every character deal with him in their own way without getting into messy politics.
Another would be banishment and Persona non Grata in every region. He would not be welcome anywhere and would always have the "if you ever set foot in, we will execute/imprison you". It would be a way of avoiding issues and allow Sasuke to spend the rest of his life finding his own way. Maybe even going back to reform the Hidden Sound or Pain's/Obito's Akatski (sp?).

JOA20 wrote:
Good, evil, neutral...the problem is always how someone reacts to what the world does to him/her. Sasuke may have had a traumatic experience, but he chose to dwell in the past instead of working for a better future. That has no excuses whatsoever. Madara and Obito are undoubtedly evil, but they somehow had an objective that others might have considered even good for mankind, the only problem is the way they were planning to do it. Sasuke seemingly has decided to accept what happened and to make sure that it won't happen ever again, but I wonder to what extent he's going to lower himself to get accepted by the village in order become Hokage. That's the difference between him and Naruto. The latter wants to become Hokage in order to be acknowledged, but he will protect the village anyway, while Sasuke seems like "I'll protect the village, but only if you let me be Hokage and do it my way". If this attitude of him changes and the village feels like having someone who planned its destruction as Hokage, I have nothing to say to that.

1. i agree with you that sasuke lives in past
2.naruto changed his reason for being hokage after invasion of pain arc

So the chapter and page where Sasuke says he will "delete" the past? Or "cut" away the past? Oh I see it now, how silly of me! It has Naruto's name and killing him all over it! /sarcasm

And just so proper pronouns are used: I am a woman, lol. That off-topic and sarcasm aside: Yes, yes, in that same page there is a panel of Naruto's face being cut, but there's no blatant reference to killing him.

"I will delete the past!" as he cuts a picture of Naruto in half. Again, Kool-aid is required to not equate that to "I am perfectly fine with not killing Naruto" when logic would equate that scene as "I'm the only one here who is going to murder Naruto with my sword."

Like seriously. The kool-ad. It be delicious.

And just so we are all clear as I am now sounding incredibly hostile.

I don't hate Sasuke. I don't much care for him, but I never have. My only beef is when people have to lie to themselves that he's a misunderstood guy who needs a hug and all of his actions are justified with him having a crappy life.

He had a very crappy life. His response to it is to do one crime after another because he is so easily manipulated. To say he should be Hokage, when defected from the village and he killed the last candidate Hokage is just to much for this old soul.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
"I will delete the past!" as he cuts a picture of Naruto in half. Again, Kool-aid is required to not equate that to "I am perfectly fine with not killing Naruto" when logic would equate that scene as "I'm the only one here who is going to murder Naruto with my sword."

Like seriously. The kool-ad. It be delicious.

TheUltimate3 wrote:
"I will delete the past!" as he cuts a picture of Naruto in half. Again, Kool-aid is required to not equate that to "I am perfectly fine with not killing Naruto" when logic would equate that scene as "I'm the only one here who is going to murder Naruto with my sword."

Like seriously. The kool-ad. It be delicious.

TU3, you are not even worth responding to after this with comments like "kool-aid". You need to get off your high-horse and stop being condescending and rude. I've already stated it once, and you are not exempt from the rules of how people on the wiki should be treated. And do not forget you are not infallible, nor am I and I always make a point to say I will concede when proven wrong. You on the other hand...

@Foxy -- I am using common sense, or at least I think so. And you think you are too, but only one can be right. I don't see it as being a massively open-ended metaphor for Naruto being the "past" and him wanting to cut/murder him. I saw it simply as what he called it -- the past. Otherwise, why wouldn't Sasuke just say "I will be the one to kill him, not you"? Language and context is important. It may very well be that Sasuke will want to kill him, but that cannot in any manner be inferred from that statement as there are many interpretations to it. But Sasuke made a point of saying he will cut the past/delete the past. It is an easy call to jump from Obito killing Naruto > Sasuke's statement > Sasuke wants to kill Naruto. But does Sasuke have another meaning by it? Perhaps he needs Naruto alive for something else, which is what he referred to. Lately you've shown a lot of logic and objectivity, Foxy, I'd appreciate this topic being treated the same.

Context in that for the entirety of Part II Sasuke has repeatedly stated his desire to kill Naruto. Logic would then suggest that him cutting up a mental image of Naruto in his head while stating aloud "I will delete the past!" that he still wants to murder Naruto. Then, I use this logic. Kishimoto said, in an interview earlier this year, that the final battle will be Naruto vs Sasuke.

You can spin this anyway you want, but Sasuke has not lost his desire to kill Naruto. There is nothing. I mean nothing other than wishful thinking that could lead anyone to that conclusion.

@ "Actions justifiable", "lying to themselves". This is where the arrogance and ignorance is coming from, it seems, from you two. You assume and put words in other people's mouths without comprehending context and content in what anyone has posted, meanwhile asserting the "I'm right, you're wrong" concept, while also being insulting. I'm beginning to question the maturity of members lately with how EVERYONE is handling debates.

No one has said Sasuke was justified in the sense that what he did is okay. Everyone against your idea presented has given reasoning, not excuses, as to why Sasuke behaved as he did. No one said "Awww, Sasuke, you're hurt, let me hug you and make it all better! Aw, you want to kill Naruto? You poor thing". This is the kind of bullshit that is brought up by Sasuke haters elsewhere on the net when someone says they like Sasuke.

And I'm pretty sure no one here wants Sasuke to be Hokage. So there is yet another fallacious and frivolous accusation. Putting more words into the mouths of people. And please, don't use "old soul". I have an "old soul", as people call it. I am also 27. Does that mean anything? It means absolute shit. So there you go. Kool-aid.

Context in that for the entirety of Part II Sasuke has repeatedly stated his desire to kill Naruto. Logic would then suggest that him cutting up a mental image of Naruto in his head while stating aloud "I will delete the past!" that he still wants to murder Naruto. Then, I use this logic. Kishimoto said, in an interview earlier this year, that the final battle will be Naruto vs Sasuke.

You can spin this anyway you want, but Sasuke has not lost his desire to kill Naruto. There is nothing. I mean nothing other than wishful thinking that could lead anyone to that conclusion.

That's simply one interpretation of the panel. I see it as a bond/past thing. And you speak of logic but ignore Sasuke and Naruto were always rivals and like brothers. And iirc, Itachi said Naruto was a better brother than himself. You also ignore that final battles don't have to be "I want to kill you". People can fight and battle without the ultimate intent being to just kill someone. You can fight friends for final battles, and it be a test of power. It can be a fight for power (or title). There are so many things it can be, and Sasuke currently is not exhibiting any notion to the effect of actually killing Naruto. You call it wishful thinking? I don't wish it. I see it as a logical progression based on evidence provided and also how a lot of stories (from all cultures around the world) end up with situations like this. It's an incredibly, extremely..... common plot.

Snark is my default. Helps me help you help yourself. Also every command structure needs a villain in the ranks to rally against. It's what keeps people from going into absolute anarchy mode.

But yeah, I did say I was getting mean (admitting to it is as close as an apology most will get out of me). But I truly believe one has to actively delude themselves to right off a characters massive issues with such flimsy justifications as a bad childhood.

Naruto had a bad childhood. He became Ninja Jesus. Gaara had a worse childhood. He met Ninja Jesus and did a 180 so hard that he is by far the most chill of the current generation of Kage. Pain had a worse childhood and he became Pain and he didn't see redemption until he killed himself to save a village.

Meanwhile Sasuke had a bad childhood, and has so far actively done everything to screw everyone over. Which, I repeat includes defecting from his village and killing its head of state, and then somehow believes they would accept him as their new head of state. And then have his fans go "He totally deserve it" is just....so...no.

Context in that for the entirety of Part II Sasuke has repeatedly stated his desire to kill Naruto. Logic would then suggest that him cutting up a mental image of Naruto in his head while stating aloud "I will delete the past!" that he still wants to murder Naruto. Then, I use this logic. Kishimoto said, in an interview earlier this year, that the final battle will be Naruto vs Sasuke.

You can spin this anyway you want, but Sasuke has not lost his desire to kill Naruto. There is nothing. I mean nothing other than wishful thinking that could lead anyone to that conclusion.

That's simply one interpretation of the panel. I see it as a bond/past thing. And you speak of logic but ignore Sasuke and Naruto were always rivals and like brothers. And iirc, Itachi said Naruto was a better brother than himself. You also ignore that final battles don't have to be "I want to kill you". People can fight and battle without the ultimate intent being to just kill someone. You can fight friends for final battles, and it be a test of power. It can be a fight for power (or title). There are so many things it can be, and Sasuke currently is not exhibiting any notion to the effect of actually killing Naruto. You call it wishful thinking? I don't wish it. I see it as a logical progression based on evidence provided and also how a lot of stories (from all cultures around the world) end up with situations like this. It's an incredibly, extremely..... common plot.

I don't see how an entire 700 something chapter manga in which about 550 of those chapters consisted of Sasuke wanting to kill Naruto is evidence, of any kind, that Sasuke is now Naruto's buddy again. Even when they were "brothers" the only time it was even remotely apparent is when Sasuke flat out admitted it.... while he was trying to kill Naruto (Valley of the End).

Sasuke fan here. I never thought, don't think, and never will think Sasuke should be Hokage. The name of the show is Naruto. That's just a silly idea. I love his character, but why people are arguing over something that shouldn't even be argued over because when it comes down to it, he would never be Hokage to begin with. Again, name of the show is NARUTO. Aside from that, no one would allow it. They might pardon him of his crimes for helping win the war and let him live in the village again, but that's probably it.

Although TheUltimate3, Naruto has stated himself that he and Sasuke could have easily been opposites. He could have been the cold-hearted villain that Sasuke became, with Sasuke becoming Ninja Jesus.

I am taking Sasuke for his actions and nothing more. I don't know what the future holds for him. It may turn out he will kill everyone. I am staying objective and not making more accusations and assumptions than I have to. I would never attempt to persuade you to look at a character differently. However, I would encourage and challenge you to be more objective when it comes to the character. You focus on one aspect and ignore others.

I know people like that, too. I, myself, was born in Israel, with constant fighting, murders, missiles, etc. Because I am brown, even a lot of Jews attacked me, physically and verbally, for looking Muslim. We moved to the U.S. when I was 13. I had an abusive father who is also a pedophile (never touched me, thankfully). My parents were extremely neglectful, and I won't go into complete detail as to not make it a "Woe is my life, pity me, please!". I lost a son when he was 3 years old in a car wreck. I was diagnosed with cancer a few years ago. I've lost family members in Israel/Palestine. I've had horrible shit to me. I've also made horrible decisions because of it. No, I didn't lose an entire family, but that's not the point I was making.

But you're forgetting this a story. In the real world, people don't have that kind of power. They can't go on genocidal rampages any time they want to (please don't bring up Hitler... (even though I just did...)). Sasuke had things occur to him when he was a little child. He became an orphan akin to Naruto. He never had anyone help him until he fought alongside Itachi against Kabuto, and then Sasuke started to understand he made mistakes and decided to try and do things the right way and become Hokage to change. I'm not confident in the belief Sasuke wants to kill Naruto because it makes no sense. And plenty of rivals in many stories across the world fight like that. I don't view Sasuke as evil because I understand how humans behave in the real world, and despite being fiction, it is very much like the real world in many aspects pertaining to the characters themselves. And TU3 isn't wrong in saying he is responsible for it. But anything more than that and is becomes unreasonable without trying to understand the character. He did fail, and no one is saying he deserves kindness, Hokage, or anything.

When I say arrogant, I mean obstinate and unwilling to try to see other sides, believing you're right and everyone else is wrong, even though no one is 100% right all the time. It is important we remain as objective as we can and try to see other sides.

And just so everyone is clear, and hopefully I am not wrong because I didn't read every post by every person: NO ONE SAID SASUKE SHOULD GET HOKAGE, ETC. NO ONE SAID SASUKE DIDN'T DO BAD THINGS. NO ONE IS TRYING TO "HUG" HIM. ETC. BLAH. BlAH. BLAH. Stop putting words into people's mouths.

XMadarasSusanooX wrote:
Although TheUltimate3, Naruto has stated himself that he and Sasuke could have easily been opposites. He could have been the cold-hearted villain that Sasuke became, with Sasuke becoming Ninja Jesus.

And?

Naruto's point is they could have been reverse. But Naruto got his act together and became Ninja Jesus while Sasuke wallowed in self-pity and anger. Naruto did something about his life. Sasuke chose genocide.

Sigh, it seems it erased part of my reply when I hit reply earlier. But thankfully I had copied it before that. So:

I ask again... Who the f**king hell said he deserves Hokage? And stop making excuses as to why you're being snarky/rude. There's no reason for it. You should be objective, respectful, and providing an example as to how others should conduct themselves on the wiki.

And reiterating again -- no one is saying what Sasuke did is okay. Stop putting words in people's mouths. And Sasuke didn't kill Danzo so much as Danzo f**king chased him and initiated the fight. Please try and use another example. This truly is the last time I'm responding until you put something up with substance.

We said he was stupid for believing he will become Hokage. But no one actually believes he will. Ever. No one is putting words into people's mouth's either.

Just a bunch of wishful thinking followed by logical retorts.

Honestly, I'm becoming snarky at this point, as well, because it is the only way to deal with some forms of "logic" expressed here. No one is forcing you to respond. All of this is, in the end, our individual opinions.

I am going to have to ask you to turn down the profanity. Its fine in bits in pieces, but now you're just being over the top. So again. Cool it.

We said he was stupid for believing he will become Hokage. But no one actually believes he will. Ever. No one is putting words into people's mouth's either.

Just a bunch of wishful thinking followed by logical retorts.

Honestly, I'm becoming snarky at this point, as well, because it is the only way to deal with some forms of "logic" expressed here. No one is forcing you to respond. All of this is, in the end, our individual opinions.

I am going to have to ask you to turn down the profanity. Its fine in bits in pieces, but now you're just being over the top. So again. Cool it.

IIRC, TU3 and you kept saying people have a wishful thinking for Sasuke becoming Hokage... multiple times. And my profanity is actually already rather limited. In my last post, there was only 2 in the entirety. I have not been over the top, but if you believe I am, so be it.

And yes, people (TU3 and you, mostly) have been putting words into peoples mouth regarding how Sasuke needs to be hugged, how he is justified in what he did, etc. Please go back and read what you stated if you do not remember it that well. Or if you'd like, I can post quotes for you. <- not snarky, just lazy.

I am being snarky, too, because... "because it is the only way to deal with some forms of 'logic' expressed here". As for why I called out TU3 on his excuse is because he said we kept making excuses for Sasuke's actions. It goes both ways.

And yes, I can concede to an extent it is individual opinion except when people try to throw psychology around. You cannot make blanket statement about a person and their reactions. Having a family member is non-normative. That means it is not normal, so how a person behaves is unknown. And every person grieves differently. Some go to drinking. Some join a church. Some don't care. People have their own way of handling things. When a family member is murdered, sometimes people let justice via the government handle it. Some people convert to vigilantism. We simply cannot break Sasuke's character into something so... So... The word escapes me currently, but the point is that it is more complex than any one person is making it out to be.

Naruto's point is they could have been reverse. But Naruto got his act together and became Ninja Jesus while Sasuke wallowed in self-pity and anger. Naruto did something about his life. Sasuke chose genocide.

That's exactly my point. Naruto could have easily been Sasuke and Sasuke could have been Naruto. Like I said, I don't even know what the point of this is anymore...

Naruto's point is they could have been reverse. But Naruto got his act together and became Ninja Jesus while Sasuke wallowed in self-pity and anger. Naruto did something about his life. Sasuke chose genocide.

That's exactly my point. Naruto could have easily been Sasuke and Sasuke could have been Naruto. Like I said, I don't even know what the point of this is anymore...

People react differently. You cannot say one is right and the other is wrong. We don't do in the real world, especially when it comes to psychology, so we shouldn't do it for Sasuke and Naruto. They are non-normative situations, and people, again -- react differently.

Moving on, yes I wasn't clear and that is my fault. I was not looking at anyone in specific with the Hokage comment. Though I have seen his name drop ever since he decided he wanted to be Hokage.

No my point was that a lot of people wish to brush over his crimes and give him the biggest hug they can because he needs it and I just cannot like that. Glorify his good traits if you want to but titans I can't stand it when people gloss over the crimes.

Moving on, yes I wasn't clear and that is my fault. I was not looking at anyone in specific with the Hokage comment. Though I have seen his name drop ever since he decided he wanted to be Hokage.

No my point was that a lot of people wish to brush over his crimes and give him the biggest hug they can because he needs it and I just cannot like that. Glorify his good traits if you want to but titans I can't stand it when people gloss over the crimes.

No one is glossing over the crimes, though, sweety. It's why people don't want him as Hokage. I don't see Sasuke as evil, but he did deplorable things, and I don't trust him. But his actions currently do not seem ill-mannered, so I have to cautiously move ahead in agreement with him until he proves me wrong. No one is treating him like an abused, misunderstood puppy, either. But it doesn't negate the fact he was hurt and acted out.

I know you weren't, swe-... Sorry. Sweety is actually my go-to word for calling people when I'm be nice and friendly,l ol. It just happens, and most of the time I don't realize it. I'll try to refrain from it in the future. (And I tend to not edit while typing, so I said "swe-", keeping it since it was in my mind at the time)

Taynio wrote:
I know you weren't, swe-... Sorry. Sweety is actually my go-to word for calling people when I'm be nice and friendly,l ol. It just happens, and most of the time I don't realize it. I'll try to refrain from it in the future. (And I tend to not edit while typing, so I said "swe-", keeping it since it was in my mind at the time)

I will say something interesting about Naruto that may surprise you Sakura who is the Heroine in this story was a mistake on the part of Kishimoto, and he admitted to this during a interview with his magazine in fact he states that Hinata is far more deserving to be the Heroine than Sakura. I can understand that since I hate Sakura with a vengeance she started as a fangirl, and she got better but still treated Naruto like a punching bag of hers, and she has used Naruto's feelings for her to her own advantage throughout the series. The thing that makes me scratch my head is why both Naruto and Sakura are such idiots that they love people that will never love them back because Sakura will never lover Naruto and Sasuke will never love Sakura unless something happens that is drastic to change this.

Elveonora wrote:
Also in case someone has forgotten, Naruto can sense negative emotions. So if Sasuke has any intent of killing him, he would know first.

Naruto is very aware Sasuke wants to kill him. And I do mean very aware. I mean, you'd have to be a special type of idiot to completely gloss over someone telling you they want to murder you every single time you meet.

I sometimes wonder about Naruto because when Shion in the movie told him that she wanted to have children with him, and Naruto didn't understood that I was facepalming myself because when he is fighting someone nothing stops him but when it comes to women he is simply clueless and dumb, and I hate to say that about Naruto who is my favorite character but it is true.

When it comes to Sasuke, Naruto gets stuck on stupid 65% of the time. I mean he had a "nervous breakdown" when gaara spoke of what Sasuke did at the summit. Sasuke is still the same cold individual, you just can't change that. Let's not forget what was said before last they fought next time we fight we will both die, or something around that arena what Naruto said.

Being concerned for a friend or upset that a friend has taken that far of a jump of the deep end isn't getting "stuck on stupid". Naruto had no friends prior to Iruka and Sasuke (later Sakura, Kakashi, and everyone else). To him, Sasuke represents the start of when his life started to improve for the better.

Its natural for a person (a person with any sort of heart) to be upset like Naruto was. And yes, extreme emotions can cause someone to hyperventilate and collapse.

I get so tired of the "Naruto is dumb for caring about Sasuke" arguments. Naruto is an idiot. No one contests that. Sasuke is a douche. No one contests that. But being concerned for a friend to the degree Naruto is for Sasuke is something I wish I saw more often in real life. Maybe if people weren't so quick to kick others to the curb, we wouldn't see so many of the psychopaths we do roaming the streets these days. /rant

Otaku4469 wrote:
I sometimes wonder about Naruto because when Shion in the movie told him that she wanted to have children with him, and Naruto didn't understood that I was facepalming myself because when he is fighting someone nothing stops him but when it comes to women he is simply clueless and dumb, and I hate to say that about Naruto who is my favorite character but it is true.

Look, Naruto is just any other shonen fight manga where no matter how many girls the male protagonist meets he will only sticks to the female protagonist until the female protagonist - who are usually 90% tsunderes with small breasts complex - will accept that she was fated to become his wife.

That's the reason why Naruto didn't answered to Hinata's confession. If it's not Sakura, then nobody else, depsite every second female characters are the same as "Kushina" = Ino, Tenten, Temari, Karui, Karin ect, all of them are tsundere fetished females. Not mentionig the "older generation".

Back to the main topic.

Well, I hate Sasuke, but not because of his "stereotype" and "fetsih" character, but because people writtes that is character is well written... well written the cat's tail! It was good until the beginning of 5 Kage SUmmit Arc, then he started to falling down. When he reappeared and met with Itachi, his speeches were so mindf*cking that my eyes bleeded. And desptie having an absolutly understandable vengeance (with some corruption by Obito) and refusing to listen to Naruto, the one whom he protected from Sakura's disgusting speech in the Chapter 3 and they had mutual feelings, he meets with a man whom he never met before (Hashirama) and borned in the enemy's clan, whose 5 minutes speeches changes Sasuke's mind who then suddenly starts to care about a village and wants to become it's Hokage. Yeah... welcome to mindf*ck.

Also, I can only laught whenever Kishimoto tried to paint the Uchihas are generaly "evil", like Toriyama the Saiyans, but it's failed all the way, because the reasons of the Ucihas were always understandable.
1.When a corrutping power was developed (Izanagi), they immediatnly created another power to counter it and redeem the one who was corrupted (Izanami).
2.They Uchihas generaly wanted to give up the war againts the senjus and only Madara and Izua were the only ones who declined it because they couldn't forgive to the senjus.
3.Just for one man's sins (Madara), the Second hokage forced a very dirty - and thanks to the ANBUs a meaningless - job to the Uchihas then forced them into a corner like the jews. No matter how much I see, but that's the very same like loath a boy (Naruto) for a monster's (Kurama) sins.
4.The Uchihas holded their feelings back till Konoha falsely stated that they were behind the Fox's attack and isolated them even more from the village, starting a last stage of discriminations.
5.The Uchihas wanted to break out because they were suffocated by (mostly) Danzo and the other two council members and what they have done to them over 100 years.

Also, despite this "biological" hatred curse crap, the only Uchihas who were really gone bad were Madara, Obito and Sasuke. On the other side, there are Shisui, Itachi and Shisui's father, oh, and since Obito and Sasuke returned back to the good guys, only Madara left. Yeah, they wanted to break out a revolution, but why we should consider it as a sin? They were technicaly slaves, despite the promises of "equal" and "peace". Not mentioning that we don't know what was the plan: simply ambush Konoha like clowns, or all they wanted is to get rid of Danzo and the council.

So technicaly, if the village - or should I say, some leaders (Tobirama, the council and Danzo) wouldn't create mistrusts and discriminations againts the Uchihas, they wouldn't have any problem. After all, they were the ones, who chased away Madara, not mister heroic Tobirama.

Oh, and Hashirama is also a fake saint: he states and tells to his friend that he wants him as Hokage, yet, when he had the chance to steps back to his favor, Hashirama clinged to the cape as much as he could, so he could become Hokage.

Mangekyo22 wrote:
Oh, and Hashirama is also a fake saint: he states and tells to his friend that he wants him as Hokage, yet, when he had the chance to steps back to his favor, Hashirama clinged to the cape as much as he could, so he could become Hokage.

Well, it's the villagers' fault. They wanted Hashirama, not Madara. Besides, Madara already failed to prove himself due to his plan.

yeah saskue may be good now but he should not be forgiven he left the village joined with many bad guys like orchimaruo aksuki and taka resled jugo who was in prison for a reson killed lots of the gurds that look like the pigmask from mother3 killed his own brother tried to kill killer b tried to get sakura to kill karin tried to kill naruto multiple times and killed danso who whould have been a hokage well yes danso was bad but not as bad as saskue and there you go saskue should rooting in jail after the war is offer

Stevenemig1 wrote:
yeah saskue may be good now but he should not be forgiven a left the village goined with many bad guys like orchimaruo aksuki and taka resled jugo who was in prison for a reson killed lots of the gurds that look like the pigmask from mother3 killed his own brother tried to kill killer b tried to get sakura to kill karin tried to kill naruto multiple times and killed danso who whould have been a hokage well yes danso was bad but not as bad as saskue and there you go saskue should rooting in jail after the war is offer

Well, they forgotten to Gaara and other ex-villains. And Danzo's death was more like a miracle and cleansing Konoha's name than sin! After all, Danzo broke out wars, sabotaged peace truces, killed people both inside and outside of the village, hired Orochimaru to kill Hiruzen, tried to kill Hiruzen many times, sabotaged Naruto' come back just to allow Pain to kill Tsunade and ruin the village, used genjutsu on the Fire Lord to "elect" himself as Hokage and tried to the same trick on Mifune which has been revealed and if Sasuke wouldn't shows up then the five kage summit would turned into a "five kage bloodpool" and so on. So no matter how much we see, Danzo committed far more sins and crimes againts the entire world over 75 years, while all Sasuke's fault were to leave the village and attack Bee - the kage summit not count as it was Obito's work to end up fightning againts the five kages.

I don't forgive and forget so easily because even if Sasuke comes out of this alive he should face punishment like any other criminal, and I am not like Kishimoto who is obsessed with the Uchiha in fact I wouldn't mind at all if they were all wiped out. The Uchiha are all a bunch of pyscopaths to me, and will never have what it takes to lead the village because they are too mentally unbalanced. Sasuke will have to beg in his knees for me to forgive him, and then he has the audacity to ask forgiveness to Karin, and she like a stupid Fangirl just gives it to him. I think that Sasuke should stick with Karin, and Sakura should stay all by herself both Sasuke and Sakura are despised by me in this story. The thing that made me laugh was Sasuke saying that he wanted to be Hokage sure Orochimaru wants to be Hokage as well since Minato was elected before him, and he held a grudge over the village because of this because Sasuke being Hokage is like putting Orochimaru as Hokage in the village.

I will admit that I am Uchiha basher to the end the only ones that I like are Shisui and Itachi, and they had their faults and weaknesses but compared to the other Uchihas I know they were far better because Madara should die, and Sasuke I am trying to determine if he should live or die because I don't give any pity to his life at all because he had a choice to go a different path but he wasn't forced or brainwashed into doing this because he knew what he was doing all along.

The other thing that pissed me about Kishimoto is why all of the sudden he wants to reintegrate Sasuke back to the village after everthing he did, and all the hate he did he wants to change the path of Sasuke from Hate to a Hero to me that is a load of crap. I also have to get mad at Naruto because how can be so loyal to a person that has wanted to kill so much is it me or do I think he is dellusional because you can't have any loyalty or trust to someone that is willing to kill you even if he is like a brother to you. The idea of turning Sasuke into a Hero is a stupid as making Orochimaru a Hero because Sasuke is not a Hero type that is a job befitting Naruto because Sasuke's personality and traits doesn't make him a ideal Hero in fact it is quite the opposite, and Kishimoto is ruining his character by turning him into something that he is not he should have kept Sasuke in the path of Darkness.

Otaku, the reason why Naruto is so loyal to Sasuke is because he was Naruto's first friend. The first person who showed him any sort of kindness (albeit in an odd way, mostly competitive). It was the first real bond Naruto had. You and I have had friends, family, everything our whole lives. It is extremely difficult for someone to comprehend how that would be. Naruto's loyalty to Sasuke, while it is pretty cynical on Kishimoto's part, is actually pretty understandable.
On the note of Sasuke turning into a hero, I wouldn't say he is so much of a hero. His goals ultimately are still where they were in the first place. It went from getting revenge on Itachi for killing his clan, to getting revenge on the village for deceiving him and having Itachi kill everyone, to wanting to make a village where that sort of thing doesn't happen. And in order to make the Leaf Village the way he would want it, Madara's plans cannot succeed. Thus, he joins the fray. It actually could be seen as a natural progression. The only reason why it seems unnatural is that it actually happened over a fairly brief span of time.

I still think Sasuke is planning something, no way you turn him back into this savior after he just attacked the kages not to long ago. Outside of Naruto and Sakura nobody would accept him in the village and why would he subject himself to that.

You are right about this because the Konoha 12 are not that stupid to forgive him so easily because if Sasuke wants to be Hokage he needs the approval of every Shinobi in Konoha in terms of getting their vote, and that is highly unlikely. I am getting the impression that Sasuke will help Naruto with Madara because of convenience to him, and when it is done he will attack Naruto with full force to settle things with him. I am not as idiotic as Kishimoto that thinks that Sasuke is going to be a Hero like Naruto all of the sudden because it is too fishy trust me Sasuke will attack Naruto after the fight with Madara you can bet your money on this. I agree with you on this DaisukeDivine because Kishi mentions that Sasuke and Naruto have to fight one more time but it will happen when the fight of Madara is over.

I agree Otaku with your assessment. My own spin on it however, is that Sasuke will attack someone of high regard and this will establish him as the hated person in the story. My guess is between Tsunade and Kakashi because of the ties they have to Sakura and Naruto. This will throw the story into a frenzy and create a lot of new story lines.

I doubt Sasuke will get to be Hokage. I mean everyone but Naruto is sure Sasuke is up to something. It is telling when Sasuke was revived he was with Taka. I'm sure he'll try to do something. While I don't think Sasuke is evil...... anymore. He is still no sane enough to be Hokage. Also why do you think Kishi is trying to reintegrate Sasuke into the village. Kishi wrote the whole I'll kill Naruto thing, his trying to burn the Tailed beasts and nobody including Sakura trusting him in Konoha. Hell we had a scene of Orochimaru grinning at the idea of what Sasuke will do.

I really don't understand how this thread is still going on but i'd just like to say in chapter 631 page 13, we see Sasuke stating that he knows he can't and remember Itachi stating "Its not that "the one who becomes hokage" will be acknowledged by everyone but "the one who is acknowledged by everyone becomes hokage"

I hate to say this to the Sasuke fans out there but I feel when the fight is over with Madara Sasuke will pull something very low to bring Naruto to fight him like trying to hurt Sakura because everybody knows that he tried to kill her, and if it wasn't for Naruto she would have been a goner. The best way to entice Naruto into a rage into killing him would be to kill Sakura like a sneak attack because if I was Sasuke that would force Naruto to fight him to the death because Naruto is soft-hearted in nature that he won't attack until you hurt his precious people, and what better way then to cripple Sakura.

The chances of Sasuke becoming Hokage are about 10 to 30 percent likely, and you must understand the Shinobi system of electing a Hokage the Jounin have a vote on this,and they participate in a vote along with the Chunnins, and the villagers as well do you think that what Sasuke did is going to be easily forgiven because deserting a village is considered a major crime, and even though his plot failed to capture Killer Bee that is considered a terrorist act, and the Raikage is not going to easily forgive this.

I agree Otaku, I mean if Kishi wanted to have Sasuke fully redeemed, he wouldn't have had everyone in the Rookie 9 except Naruto thinking how stupid Sasuke's decision to be Hokage was. Even Akamaru and Shino had blank eyes. Or the whole, "I'll kill Naruto" thing, hell Sakura doesn't trust him, in fact we have seen Sakura really stopped trusting him after the Kage arc. I'm sure Sasuke will try to kill Naruto someway or another. In fact we have no idea what Sasuke said to the sage. People seem to think Sasuke are good again(which based on MY experiences on tumblr are NaruSasu fans generally), but we have no idea what was they were talking about. And Kishi started to hint at this when Team 7 came back together. He is not one to ignore what he has said. He is generally pretty good at connect his continuity together, just give him time.

What you seem to be forgetting though is that this is a pretty standard shounen manga.Everything is all about friendship,action-y stuff and stressing the all importance of the protagonist or protagonists.
As such in this case it doesn't matter how A,or anyone for that matter, feels about Sasuke and no matter how logical it would be for him to receive some form of punishment in the end, the lone thing that matters, as sad as it is, is that Naruto forgives him. As long as the pinnacle of forgiveness and understanding of this story,Naruto, can and has forgiven him he will be absolved of all crimes.Even should there be a fight between the two after they have taken care of Shinjudara,Naruto will still manage to force a 'change of heart' kind of developement on Sasuke by the simple virtue of being Ninja-jesus.

That is iffy, I mean Naruto planned on Obito getting punishment. But the thing is we have no idea what is on Sasuke's mind. Who says he is going to not try to kill Naruto, or the fact the MANGA itself is saying no one besides Naruto is really willing to trust him.

Well except Obito isn't one of the protagonists.In fact with Madara taking over all the things he has been relegated to a sort of sidecharacter antihero type role and the fact that Naruto doesn't have any ties with Obito beyond the whole "You wanted to be Hokage too so I can exploit that for my change of heart."
So the fact that he wanted Obito to receive punishment is pretty inconsequential to the question if he would want Sasuke to be punished in fact I doubt he would have Obito receive any appropriate amount of punishment to begin with.
Naruto isn't vindictive by nature, so it would probably be something like D-Rank Missions for the rest of your life or some other kind of sham like that.
So since Sasuke is one of the protagonists of the story, Naruto's 'brother', 'first friend', Indra reincarnation and Naruto is all about love, everyone understanding eachother and what not the chance that Sasuke will actually receive a punishment that has any sort of effect is close to zero.

What I find more amazing than anything is all of you are trying to criticize a writer for the choices he has made and is currently exploring with a character HE CREATED. "Kishi this" and "Kishi that" wow give me a break. Your like the adults that took over Gerald Field for their own activities and interests after Arnold and the gang cleaned the vacant lot and created the space for them to enjoy. Kishimoto has created a truly captivating and dynamic story that should be celebrated, not dissected for every flaw you feel he made with a story or character choice.

Criticism comes with the trade. That's part of being an author. Just because you create a world/story, doesn't mean its infaulible. That logic is absurd. Kishimoto's story is my favorite manga out there (hater's gonna hate), but that doesn't mean it doesn't have flaws.

GreatToadSage wrote:
What I find more amazing than anything is all of you are trying to criticize a writer for the choices he has made and is currently exploring with a character HE CREATED. "Kishi this" and "Kishi that" wow give me a break. Your like the adults that took over Gerald Field for their own activities and interests after Arnold and the gang cleaned the vacant lot and created the space for them to enjoy. Kishimoto has created a truly captivating and dynamic story that should be celebrated, not dissected for every flaw you feel he made with a story or character choice.

Truth! if they feel they can do better go be an author yourself and lets see what they come up with and see if the can deal with constant whining from "fans", SMH

GreatToadSage wrote:
What I find more amazing than anything is all of you are trying to criticize a writer for the choices he has made and is currently exploring with a character HE CREATED. "Kishi this" and "Kishi that" wow give me a break. Your like the adults that took over Gerald Field for their own activities and interests after Arnold and the gang cleaned the vacant lot and created the space for them to enjoy. Kishimoto has created a truly captivating and dynamic story that should be celebrated, not dissected for every flaw you feel he made with a story or character choice.

A hey Arnold reference though. Criticism is always going to be part of the game in any thing you do in life. People have their likes and dislikes the fact that opinions are strong either way is what Kishi i'm sure enjoys.

I'd like to apologise for this thread continually disappearing and reappearing. Another user keeps removing the thread in an attempt to disrupt the site, but the issue is being dealt with. Carry on with the discussion if there's anyone still interested in responding. :)

The one thing I do want more than anything is that Sasuke get the proper punishment for the things he has done because Kishimoto obviously wants to forgive Orochimaru and every scumbag in this series, and it is really good that forgiveness is needed but Sasuke should not be pardoned so easily treat him like any other criminal that has broken the laws.

I do know that deserting a village is a major crime for a Ninja unless that law is not important, and he attempted to kidnap Killer Bee that is also another major crime, and he tried to kill Konoha Shinobis, which is considered a serious offense these deeds should not be forgiven.

I also hope that Kishimoto is pulling my leg out of this Hokage thing for Sasuke because he doesn't deserve the right to be one since Sasuke only cares about himself above all others, and being a Hokage means that you place the village above yourself.

I don't like Sasuke if this makes me a Sasuke basher so be it because the only Uchiha that are important in the story to be left alive are Shisui and Itachi everybody else should burn. I also know that the Senju did contribute to this part but the Uchiha surpassed them in all categories.

I also want to see Naruto give up on Sakura because the girl will never give you the time of day, and I am huge fan of Naruto but this idiotic that girl still worships Sasuke making her look even dumber than Naruto because this guy has no love for anybody but himself. I don't want pity or excuses for Sasuke because I am tired of hearing them because Naruto could have taken this path but he was stronger mentally and never gave up like Sasuke did.

The one thing I do criticize Kishimoto for is how he decided to bring Sasuke back to the village again that to me is a huge mistake in plot development because you have set one of the main characters in a path of darkness, and all of the sudden you are trying to make him into a Hero that to me doesn't make sense.

I still don't like Sasuke whatever excuse he brings, and Naruto is plain dumb forgiving him after trying to kill him with a Chidori through the chest, and he would have killed Sakura if it wasn't for Naruto to me both Sakura and Naruto are plain stupid to be so forgiving because if someone tries to kill me like this I would have second thoughts in trusting him again.

The funny thing is that he said to Karin I am sorry after he nearly killed her when he stabbed her through the chest please the only thing that Uchihas are known for is their psychotic and murderous tendencies because Obito is Emo.

I also hate the Uchiha's arrogance and pride to me they should be destroyed in the story without a trace they are a blight to the Shinobi world because he thinks that the Uchiha are the greatest thing in the world please if the Uchiha were so great they would have been the true Founders of Konoha, and Madara lost to the 1st Hokage.

The Senju Clan to me will always be better than the Uchihas are true the Senju contributed to the Uchiha's pain but they proved the Senju's accusations towards them to be true.

Otaku4469 wrote:
I still don't like Sasuke whatever excuse he brings, and Naruto is plain dumb forgiving him after trying to kill him with a Chidori through the chest, and he would have killed Sakura if it wasn't for Naruto to me both Sakura and Naruto are plain stupid to be so forgiving because if someone tries to kill me like this I would have second thoughts in trusting him again.

The funny thing is that he said to Karin I am sorry after he nearly killed her when he stabbed her through the chest please the only thing that Uchihas are known for is their psychotic and murderous tendencies because Obito is Emo.

I also hate the Uchiha's arrogance and pride to me they should be destroyed in the story without a trace they are a blight to the Shinobi world because he thinks that the Uchiha are the greatest thing in the world please if the Uchiha were so great they would have been the true Founders of Konoha, and Madara lost to the 1st Hokage.

The Senju Clan to me will always be better than the Uchihas are true the Senju contributed to the Uchiha's pain but they proved the Senju's accusations towards them to be true.

Unless this war arc is the end of the series then I still believe they have something planned for Sasuke and Naruto. The story can go two ways in either the people accept Sasuke because he saved the world or he can become in orochimaru in the sense that he wants to be leader of his own village. I think their relationship goes in the way of Madara and Hashirama, where Naruto at the end of the day will do anything to protect the village if Sasuke decides to attack them. Plus way back Kurama did say Sasuke chakra was more foul then Madara so there's that.

Otaku4469 wrote:
I also hate the Uchiha's arrogance and pride to me they should be destroyed in the story without a trace they are a blight to the Shinobi world because he thinks that the Uchiha are the greatest thing in the world please if the Uchiha were so great they would have been the true Founders of Konoha, and Madara lost to the 1st Hokage.
The Senju Clan to me will always be better than the Uchihas are true the Senju contributed to the Uchiha's pain but they proved the Senju's accusations towards them to be true.

While I pretty much agree with your words on Sasuke, Obito and Madara, I think you're confusing them as the Uchiha standard. The Curse of Hatred pretty much had a toll only on these three, while the other Uchiha clan members had true love for the village, especially Kagami, Shisui and Itachi. As Tobirama stated, while the Uchiha were too attached to their name and clan, their loyalty was second to none. Senju's accusations? Tobirama never called the Uchiha evil, he thought that both Uchiha and Senju were those who founded Konoha, but it was childish to pretend that clans which hated each other until the day before could get friendly in no time. Only after the Nine-Tails' Attack on Konoha orchestrated by Tobi did the Uchiha feel like they were the Senju's lapdogs, not before, and I don't think there's anyone out there who would accept to be put under trial and 24-hour surveillance for something that they never did. It was Danzo and the elders' actions which brought the Uchiha to start a coup d'état, only for Itachi to murder his whole clan.

I also want to see Naruto give up on Sakura because the girl will never give you the time of day, and I am huge fan of Naruto but this idiotic that girl still worships Sasuke making her look even dumber than Naruto because this guy has no love for anybody but himself. I don't want pity or excuses for Sasuke because I am tired of hearing them because Naruto could have taken this path but he was stronger mentally and never gave up like Sasuke did.

The one thing I do criticize Kishimoto for is how he decided to bring Sasuke back to the village again that to me is a huge mistake in plot development because you have set one of the main characters in a path of darkness, and all of the sudden you are trying to make him into a Hero that to me doesn't make sense.

I agree that Naruto has to give Sakura up.

I don't think so at all. It's the reason why Naruto's plot is unique. I understand why you dislike Sasuke (and I'm pretty sure it's how Kishimoto designed him). But anyway, I believe we should pretty much wait and see what will happen next. XD

I personally think that Kishimoto's assessment of Saskura was right because he said in a interview of 2010 that she was a mistake on his part when he created her as a character, and Hinata is a better character than her as a Heroine.

I am actually in favor of Hinata pairing up with Naruto in a bad way you might say I am a fan of Naruto/Hinata all the way the girl is perfect for him.

I will tell the truth I dislike Sasuke so much if you give me a choice to have either Neji or Sasuke die I would pick Sasuke in a second.

Sasuke has been kept alive because he still has a role to play. In case you didn't notice, he is now saving the whole world from being mind-ra*ed for all eternity, how selfish and villainous of him "sarcasm"

Also you are obviously biased and ignorant. Nagato blew up a village with an intent to mass murder all men, women and children alike, just so he could prove his "godhood" but noooo, Nagato iz a gud guy rait? Nagato didn't have half as many reasons for being evil as Sasuke does.
Parents die by an accident? Dog dies by an accident? Friend willingly commits suicide? "the whole world shall feel my pain" :D

Now... genocide of a clan (children included) forced onto its own member, declaring him a traitor/criminal in the process for having fulfilled an order? Sure, why not? The Konoha government is full of saints after all. All those evil Uchiha must have been exterminated, for having kept peace and order in the village ;)

I actually want if Sasuke decides to go back to the village to have a condition to never be given the position of Hokage because to me he is a criminal, and he shouldn't be allowed to have this privilege. This position is clearly Naruto's to be given, and he doesn't deserve this honor, and I am biased towards Sasuke.

Well, at least you are honest enough to openly admit so. Also not to break the bubble, but even many of the Kages themselves thorough the history have done dishonest deeds. They are hypocrites. Don't be so easily fooled. They aren't truly interested in peace, the sole reason they co-operate now is because their power is at stake. Once Madara is dealt with, they will resume to pursue their own interests each.

I do want one thing clear for the story of Naruto I don't want to see Sasuke be Hokage because if this happens Kishimoto and I will be having problems with each other. I don't want to see a Uchiha become the leader of the village because Sasuke as he is doesn't deserve this privilege because Naruto is perfect for this job. I will tell you this even if Sasuke does his part, and saves everybody the village of Konoha will not elect Sasuke over Naruto because if I remember correctly the Shinobi council of the village votes on this matter, which includes many of the Jounins, and Sasuke's reputation is not very pretty, and Naruto's deeds outshine his by a mile.

The requirements for a Hokage is to be selfless, and sacrificing yourself on behalf of the village, and Sasuke is one of the most selfish persons that I know he wouldn't sacrifice himself to save either his teammates or the village because he loves himself too much. The other requirements even disqualify Sasuke further so this idea of Sasuke to be Hokage is a laughing matter to me because that is like putting a career criminal to become the President of the United States.

I view this is breaking all of the general rules and I read that this person is bias and then I saw the rules on ways to detect bias and why is no one acting on the other rule cleaning up bias is there anyway I could help please tell me.

I don't like how Sasuke was always given a silver spoon in his mouth all the time because everybody in the village praised Sasuke and every girl chased after him, while Naruto had to endure a hell because of the Kyubi locked up inside of him, and then people say why the Uchihas are so Emo but it is true.

I also don't like the blatant favoritism that Sasuke is given over Naruto even in regards to his Ninja training because they kept Naruto so poorly trained in his whole career even Jiraiya didn't do anything for him in his 3 year training because the only thing he did was to refine his basic skills, and upgrade his Rasengan, and be able to break Genjutsu because he didn't even learn Elemental Manipulation until much later in the story to be able to catch up to Sasuke.

It is a well known fact that Kishimoto favors the Uchiha Clan in the story because if he had his way he would change the title of the story to "Sasuke Shippuden" instead of its current title now. I also don't forgive his near killing of Sakura and Karin, and Naruto as well because to me if he is brought back he should be barred to become a Hokage, and should be put under Anbu Supervision for the rest of his life as a Flight risk because the only person he cares is himself, and he wants to become Hokage please are you joking with me.

I am fan of Naruto in the story, and I am a basher of Sasuke, and I don't like Sakura but I give her the benefit of the doubt in the story because unlike Sasuke she hasn't betrayed the village and her teammates.

I actually told this message to Kishimoto himself through a Email because I don't like his favoritism towards Sasuke in the story because if Sasuke was following a dark path then let him feel the consequences, and now all of the sudden he wants to make him a Hero please Sasuke couldn't be a Hero if his life depended on it because he is the most selfish person in the series.

The only thing I want to set straight about Sasuke if he is allowed to return then he should not be given a full pardon like Kishimoto wants but he should get the proper punishment for his actions like any other criminal.

I give a example here the idea of Sasuke being a Hokage should be barred for him for the rest of his life he can still serve the village as a Shinobi but he shouldn't be allowed to rise to the Rank of Hokage he doesn't deserve this honor even if he reforms himself that is like choosing Orochimaru to be Hokage because in terms of credentials he is better than Sasuke, and that should be a insult to Sasuke because both of them are in the same boat.

I don't want a Fairy Tail ending for Sasuke sure you can let him live but he shouldn't be allowed to have any power in the village, and he should be watched by the Anbu 24/7 for the rest of his life, and be restricted when he leaves the village because this crap of forgiving everybody is unreal because do you think that the Raikage will forgive Sasuke or the Mizukage as well because he committed a terrorist act in their eyes, and Naruto might forgive him but they won't, and the Shinobi in the village will never let Sasuke be Hokage due to the fact of his deeds and actions because Shikimaru and the Konoha 12 wil not be so lenient towards him about this problem.

Sasuke has to pay for his crimes, yeah. He is definitely unfit to become Hokage as he is now. He has to be punished for his crimes. But to bane the whole Uchiha Clan from becoming Hokage is a bit too much. Those like Kagami, Shisui and Itachi definitely deserve the position.

I actually support Itachi and Shisui as Hokage selections, and if you like Itachi becoming Hokage then you need to go to Fanfiction.com, which is a site that I am right now because I am writer, and they have a story that Sarutobi makes Itachi the Hokage, and Naruto is stil the Main character but the story has completely changed because the Uchiha rebellion never starts because of this selection.

My favorite story though is called "The Hope of the Senju Clan" that is simply a great story to read.

Sasuke is the perfect foil to Naruto. Where he was the gifted talent, Naruto was the underachiever. They're stories are built for that one big confrontation. Sasuke will more than likely escape after the war, he essentially has his own crew to roll with, with him as the leader. The whole story of Naruto in general has been how history repeats itself over and over again. Friends fight friends and in the end have to make the difficult decision on what's best for them and the village.

I still get the feeling that Sasuke will fight Naruto to the death in the story because remember they posess the souls of Ashura and Indra, and their fight has to be settled either with blood or through a great sacrifice because both of these souls won't give in.

Yea I think that is the plan too. Naruto said it himself next time they fight they both will die. In a sense I think Naruto will go down as the great hero who never became Hokage because of his sacrifice for the village. That will essentially be his legendary story. Naruto and Sasuke relationship is to dynamic for them not to have that final fight.

I would rather see Sasuke die than Naruto because if they kill off Naruto the pure hate and death threats that Kishimoto would get from the fans would fill up a mountain, and he is the writer but what happens if you anger your fans beyond reason. I want to see Naruto accomplish his goal of being a Hokage if it takes Sasuke's death to do it then let it be done because unlike Sasuke the dreams that Naruto has, and his power can change the world but Sasuke doesn't have that power to do this.

That's the thing it's not like Sasuke will kill Naruto and that's the end of it. Naruto and Sasuke both have the power to change the world for good or evil. Sasuke just has his problems that have driven him in good and bad ways. In a sense it would be poetic justice. Sasuke has always been the better of Naruto in terms of pure skill. If naruto were to die to stop his friend I wouldn't see the problem. That just increases his legend. He gave up his dream in order to stop his friend from more crime.

"they posess the souls of Ashura and Indra"
Except they don't, perhaps back there at your fanfiction site.

"The requirements for a Hokage is to be selfless, and sacrificing yourself on behalf of the village, and Sasuke is one of the most selfish persons that I know he wouldn't sacrifice himself to save either his teammates or the village because he loves himself too much"
Rait http://oi32.tinypic.com/2w6s3a1.jpg

The thing you said about Sasuke being selfish is right on the money because he has always thought of himself first before others, and I would extremely angry at Kishimoto if Naruto were to die, and Sasuke were to live because in context of things Naruto will make a better difference in the world then Sasuke because Naruto has the power to inspire people and change them from the inside the only thing that Sasuke brings is pure chaos and mayhem he does not bring peace but Naruto does.

You have to remember the child of the prophecy is Naruto not Sasuke because he is the one that will change the Shinobi world not Sasuke because the only thing that Uchihas are good is to bring forth destruction sorry I hate Sasuke, and that is the end of this.

I always hated his arrogance and pride, and he has always had people in the village kiss his butt, and the girls were always after him while Naruto suffered. I always think of Sasuke as Emo obsessed brat with a stick up his butt throughout the series, and I always root for the Underdog because like Jiraiya said I always want somebody that has guts and tenacity that someone that is just a genius that is everything is handed down to him.

You have remember though Sasuke as a kid, was a normal kid with no worries except being better than his brother. His hatred has come from his clan being slained and apparently some of the hatred is just in the uchiha blood. Despite Sasuke cool demeanor he is a hard worker. Orichimaru wouldn't have choosen him otherwise even if he was only a pawn. Sasuke can change the world just the same as Naruto. They are two of the same in terms of ability but Naruto inspires the people whom he craved attention from. Sasuke as I said before is the perfect foil for Naruto.

Really? Last time I checked, Suna has betrayed Konoha not once thorough the history, not to mention Gaara was meant to be a tool of mass destruction in the plan to conquer it, having him transform into Shukaku, which he didn't disagree with.

I don't disagree with you just playing devil's advocate. In terms of story line the out Gaara would have is that they were being used but obviously Gaara had psychological issues before they betrayed konoha.

Sasuke is considered a enemy of the state, and remember he was responsible for the attempted kidnapping of Killer Bee, and the Raikage is not a bleeding heart like Naruto so he won't forgive him so easily.

I also want to state that Sasuke will never be the Hero that Naruto is in the story all I see is a Emo prick with arrogance and pride that is disgusting plus Naruto has in his blood the Senju relation inside of him, and the will of Fire runs strong in Naruto, and Sasuke only thinks of himself so stop believing in Sasuke.

I do hope he does survive but I want him to be treated as a criminal this is all I want for Sasuke he has to pay the price for his action just like anybody else because when you commit a crime don't you have to do the time so the same thing is for Sasuke.

I don't want hear any more crap that he is a Hero like Naruto I believe that as much as Madara is a saint himself, and Orochimaru is a priest in church. I can tell what a great friend he is by trying to impale through a chest with a chidori, and he nearly killed Karin by a few inches, and Sakura was even closer to be killed if it wasn't for Naruto.

I am person for second chances because Sasuke can come back to the village but he should be forbidden to have a shot for becoming a Hokage, and he will have to supervised 24 hours a day by Anbu, and restricted in travelling outside the village like any common criminal. I don't want him Sasuke to be forgiven like nothing ever happened, and look nothing he did ever mattered at all because that is simply unrealistic.

I am sorry but I hate Sasuke's guts in the story, and I won't change my mind about him he will have to get on hands and knees or simply sacrifice himself for Naruto like Neji did then I will forgive him he will have to give up his life to save someone else for him to believe in him again.

That's the thing though. Your letting your personal feelings of Sasuke get in the way of judgment. You should look at him as the "flawed" character that he is. Sasuke is the one character Naruto has not been able to talk off the ledge so to speak. Along with the other intangibles that makes Sasuke the interesting character that he is. Sasuke will do what what he needs to accomplish his task he doesn't accept bonds and will demolish anyone in his way. That's why Naruto is there. He will go to any lengths at the end of the day to make sure his friend doesn't become the major criminal that his path is set on.

Considering the fact that right now, if it weren't for Sasuke, Naruto would be under the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Meaning, Madara would win.

Kinda makes you think he should at least not be considered a criminal anymore because he kinda sorta helped in the process of...oh...I don't know, saving the world? That doesn't mean anyone has to like him.

XMadarasSusanooX wrote:
Considering the fact that right now, if it weren't for Sasuke, Naruto would be under the Infinite Tsukuyomi. Meaning, Madara would win.

Kinda makes you think he should at least not be considered a criminal anymore because he kinda sorta helped in the process of...oh...I don't know, saving the world? That doesn't mean anyone has to like him.

^ Has a point.

Sasuke is, currently, kinda the only thing standing between Madara and the remaining able-bodied shinobi joining in being mummified by a giant tree. All things considered, if he does end up helping Naruto stop this thing and kill Madara in the process, I really highly doubt the other shinobi, which are hanging like cocoons from the tree, are going to give a flying monkey's ass about Sasuke's past.

Doesn't mean anyone has to like him, but it does have merit, regardless of how much you hate him. That applies to real life as well. Your personal feelings about what a person "deserves" makes you bias.

I'm not Sasuke's biggest fan, in fact, I find the guy to be quite the prick, but I also seeing things from the full picture, and right now, if you had it your way, and Sasuke somehow got brutally offed, then Naruto, and the rest of the shinobi world, would be royally screwed.

...So... there's that.

Otaku4469 wrote:
...and Sakura was even closer to be killed if it wasn't for Naruto.

Not gonna lie. Was totally rooting for Sasuke during that moment. Sakura got saved twice in those chapters from Sasuke. One by Kakashi and another by Naruto and both times I screamed at my computer when they intervened and protected her. Seriously, the most tardy ninja in existence pick THAT MOMENT to be punctual

Elveonora wrote:
Gaara murdered more people than Sasuke ever did, yet the guy is a Kage and no one even remembers those murders :D So Sasuke becoming Hokage ain't impossible.

1. sasuke doesn't have evil beast who take control over him unlike gaara.

2. gaara not joining to terroristic organisation

3. gaara not attacked diplomatic meet like sasuke.

The beast didn't influence Gaara. Gaara hated everyone for the way they treated him and enjoyed killing because of it.

True. But he did take part in a plot to annihilate an entire village; men, women, and children. During said plot, he killed several innocents, nearly killed Rock Lee, Sasuke, Sakura, Shikamaru, and Naruto.

Attacking a village is the equivalent of attack a foreign nation, which, politically, is the same as attacking a diplomatic meeting. Especially considering Konoha was a political ally at the time.

All of your points are mute. Treat them the same, or admit you're bias.

The one word that describes Sasuke in Maito Gai's one worlds is that his "Flames of Youth" are very unyouthful, and he doesn't burn very brightly. I rather have Sasuke die than for example Maito Gai or Lee because Gaara in the comments above did kill people but the Biju inside him drove to the point of madness, and people tend to forget that he never slept, and to a normal Human lack of sleep causes insanity. I give Gaara the benefit of the doubt over Sasuke anytime of the day because Sasuke knew what he was doing when he attacked Sakura, and Naruto, and the other Shinobis, and he participated in the kidnapping attempt of Killer Bee, and he joined the attack on the Kages conference, which places him as a international terrorist for his actions.

You can't even compare Gaara and Sasuke because Gaara is so above Sasuke as a person that he doesn't even stack up to him anymore because Gaara was genocidal with is lack of sleep but after the fight he had with Naruto he took it upon himself to change himself, and get the approval of his siblings, and the village, and to follow the dream of Naruto.

This is the reason why Sasuke can't compare himself to Naruto because Naruto has the power to change to people from the inside, and he inspires them, and please don't give me the excuse that Sasuke has this power because the only thing he does well is being a egomaniac, and he loves himself so much that they should build a statue of him in the village because his arrogance and pride are disgusting. I already made it clear that I hate Sasuke but I do want him to come alive from the War because I don't want him to skip out from his punishment that he deserves because to me he is as much as a criminal as Madara or Orochimaru but Kishimoto will probably be giving these characters full Pardons like Sasuke.

The only condition I have for this story is that Sasuke is prohibited from becoming Hokage for the rest for his life think of this as a plea bargain condition for his pardon, and no Uchihas are allowed for the position either in future generations.

Just because he is a egomaniac doesn't mean he can't change the world. Your mixing his criminal activity with his personal feelings towards others. Kakashi was arrogant, so was Gaara, A, Bee, and a bunch of others. Arrogance and having confidence in your skills is a very thin line. Sasuke won't be excused for what he did but you can't say he can't change the world when he's Naruto better in skill.

Otaku4469 wrote:
You can't even compare Gaara and Sasuke because Gaara is so above Sasuke as a person that he doesn't even stack up to him anymore because Gaara was genocidal with is lack of sleep but after the fight he had with Naruto he took it upon himself to change himself, and get the approval of his siblings, and the village, and to follow the dream of Naruto.

That is the biggest sack of bull crap I've ever heard. Insomnia an excuse for genocide. HA!

Otaku4469 wrote:
The only condition I have for this story is that Sasuke is prohibited from becoming Hokage for the rest for his life think of this as a plea bargain condition for his pardon, and no Uchihas are allowed for the position either in future generations.

Not your story, so throw your "condition", out the window. Kishimoto can do whatever he wants with his own story. Get over it.

I can tell you this if he makes Sasuke the Hokage the career of Kishimoto would be finished because I am a amateur writer, and I don't have to worry about the backlash of the fans going for your head sure I get flames when I mistake in writing a plot but destroying the dream of Naruto or killing him in the process will get him death threats and Hate mails so long that it won't stop, and the majority of the fans would complain to his publisher enough that he has to change his story trust me the fans of Naruto have incredible power because who do you think makes the story go is not the writer but the reader because if you ruin the story then you will have a hard time to convince any fans to read any of your stories.

I don't want to see this scumbag become Hokage because I consider him to be in the same category as a villain he needs to sacrifice himself like Neji did for Naruto because he only thinks of himself, and Naruto will always be a better Ninja than Sasuke will ever, and as a person to lead the village he will always be better.

I favor the Underdogs in most stories anyway so I am always happy when a genius looks stupid in most of the stories, and Naruto has the potential to become as skilled as Sasuke haven't you paid attention to what the "Sage of the Six Paths" said about Ashura because Indra was the genius among his sons but Ashura became his equal in power and skill, and he had a ability to inspire and change people that made him special over Indra.

I always favor someone who works his butt off to get his skills with hard work because to me a genius of hard work always beats someone with a genius ability, and Sasuke doesn't have the guts and courage and determination that Naruto has. The traits that Naruto has are required for a Hokage to be, and Sasuke is only good at loving himself.

tbh i don't like sasuke and i won't forgive him or kishi if he doesn't do something to redeem himself (something big like saving naruto and sacrificing himself). i get that he is trying to change, but the fact that he just jumps in the war going "oh I'm gonna be hokage, ill help blah blah blah" just shows that he truly isn't sorry for everything that he's done. he didn't even say I'm sorry, and naruto and sakura were perfectly fine with that! that just pisses me off. i think naruto and everyone in konoha let him (and orochimaru) off the hook wayyyy too easily, even if it was in the middle of war. i mean, the whole killer b and kage summit thing was a huge (international!) deal and konoha got into a lot of trouble for that.

of course, sasuke is pretty important to the whole story and killing him off wouldn't make any sense, but he should at least do SOMETHING to show that he's sorry.

I have the same opinion as you "nerzaysenpai" because everything that Sasuke did was correct in his opinion, and of course Naruto and Sakura were both idiots to accept him without a apology the only person he apologize for was Karin, and he should have done this to Sakura and Naruto who have been closer to him than anybody.

This attitude is typical Uchiha behavior because their arrogance and pride makes it impossible for them to admit when they are wrong since he thinks that the world owes to the Uchiha Clan this is typical behavior of a Elitist person that thinks that he is above everyone else.

I actually told this same stuff to Kishimoto in his site that he has for Fans but he hasn't answered me for some reason.

I don't normally say this because it is out of topic on this discussion but I noticed that the Manga has dropped to 23rd place in both sales and popularity, and Fairy Tail has become number one, which to me should worry Kishimoto about what he is doing in the story because it has dropped a long way down, and I think it is because of Kishimoto himself.

Otaku4469 wrote:
I don't normally say this because it is out of topic on this discussion but I noticed that the Manga has dropped to 23rd place in both sales and popularity, and Fairy Tail has become number one, which to me should worry Kishimoto about what he is doing in the story because it has dropped a long way down, and I think it is because of Kishimoto himself.

Never heard of fanservice? That's how Fairy Tail made its way to the top.

Otaku4469 wrote:
I don't normally say this because it is out of topic on this discussion but I noticed that the Manga has dropped to 23rd place in both sales and popularity, and Fairy Tail has become number one, which to me should worry Kishimoto about what he is doing in the story because it has dropped a long way down, and I think it is because of Kishimoto himself.

Really? That's funny, because earlier this year, Shonen Jump was listing it within the top five or six as far as popularity goes, so unless I'm on LSD or something drastically changed in the past couple of months (doubtful), then I question your source.

The decline in ratings is a bit of a stretch there. Naruto is still one of the top manga out there after all these years. Kishi knows what he is doing. Sure their is flaws here and there but that's only from my perception. Overall I still enjoy the story and don't let that destroy my reading.

Here are some factual statistics in regards to Naruto, as cited by the Anime News Network:

It is the number one most viewed manga (second was Death Note and third was Bleach. One Piece is down at number seven... hah!).

In a list of the Top 10 manga, Naruto ranks second.

By publication (citing both Wikipedia and Anime News Network), Naruto is number seven, having sold 135 million copies.

@Otaku: So you see? Do not make up facts because you're angry Kishimoto makes a character you hate prominent. The truth of the matter is that he is doing something right to have this much popularity decades after the series began and to have sold that much. Sasuke or no Sasuke, the manga is a huge success which won't be declining anytime soon.

My opinion on Sasuke won't change regardless of what the outcome of the Manga is but my main goal in the Manga is for Naruto to achieve his dream because I don't want Sasuke to destroy his dream because it will infuriate me to no bounds, and everybody in this site agrees that he is unworthy to be Hokage he doesn't have any traits that even qualify him. The only Uchiha who I would support for the nomination of Hokage would be Itachi but he is dead right now but no Uchiha alive right now qualify for this position. I think that if Naruto was Hokage he would accomplish not only his goals but Sasuke's greatest desires as well because Naruto knows that the Shinobi system is flawed from the start, and he is carrying Jiraiya's ideals, which are idealistic but worthwhile to pursue because it is a impossible dream to achieve but you have to admire his tenacity to accomplish them.

I keep hearing that Sasuke has the same power to change the world but I disagree because if you carry his traits of being a Uchiha so can't accomplish anything since he is the most selfish person I know, and to change the world so to speak you must think of others before yourself, and Sasuke throughout his life has only thought of himself. I don't want to hear excuses about Sasuke because he has much to answer for, and even though most of the members here disagree with me he should be punished for his actions because I don't want excuses for his actions because he never apologized for his actions against Naruto and Sakura and everyone else he has hurt but to him the means justify the actions.

For all the murders that Gaara did, he should be executed, yet he was given a pardon. Sasuke hasn't done that many crimes in fact.
The worst he did was attacking the Kage Summit, but he was there after Danzo, the others were just in the way.

@Otaku4469 If you don't want to hear these so-called excuses which is actually the fact, I think we should just end this. We both know that everything is up to Kishimoto. He writes the story. Even if you hate it, (as much as I hate Sakura's ass being saved so many times), we can do nothing about it.

My point is that he/she had a point from the start why he/she hated Sasuke, but I don't know. I guess this is now just a pointless rant. It just became too repetitive. I know a rant is basically biased, Spey. I could always rant about Sakura.

The problem was that the Kage summit was equivalent to declaring War against those villages, and it is considered a international Crime, which by the way will be difficult to forgive because the Raikage is not so lenient about forgiveness, and Gaara's acts are a drop in the bucket compared to what Sasuke did.

The only thing I want is for Naruto become Hokage to me that is the most important thing that I want to see, and everything else to me doesn't matter but Sasuke should be held accountable for his actions because I don't want a slap on the wrist but a full fracture on both his hands something that will piss Sasuke off.

Actually I don't want Naruto to be Hokage, so you might have a problem with me. He isn't fit for the job in my opinion, someone like Sasuke indeed is though.
Naruto is as much of an adequate Hokage candidate as Kiba is. Yes, he is a hero, but being a Kage equals responsibility. Also as shown with Hiruzen, ideals of peace and mutual understanding are naive, people like Danzo are a must, something even Hiruzen himself (thought of as a saint by others) had to acknowledge. Otherwise your "allies" would betray you when least expected. A Kage sometimes has to do harsh decisions, lesser evil for greater good.

The truth of life is that one prospers at the expense of another, eat or be eaten, survival of the fittest etc. and that's true in fiction too.

Naruto's outlook on the world isn't realistic, it's idealistic and so is yours if you truly believe that once the war is over, everyone is going to be buddies with each other, ever since and forever.

The best choice for Hokage is Shikamaru or Kakashi if you want to get into Hokage candidates. I agree naruto outlook is pessimistic he isn't a realist as much as he is idealistic like you said. Sasuke could be said the same. Except where Naruto is warm , he is the cold individual. Sure Sasuke has done all this stuff but until you find out the end game on what he really wants and what his goals are we just have to wait and see.

Elveonora wrote:
Actually I don't want Naruto to be Hokage, so you might have a problem with me. He isn't fit for the job in my opinion, someone like Sasuke indeed is though.
Naruto is as much of an adequate Hokage candidate as Kiba is. Yes, he is a hero, but being a Kage equals responsibility. Also as shown with Hiruzen, ideals of peace and mutual understanding are naive, people like Danzo are a must, something even Hiruzen himself (thought of as a saint by others) had to acknowledge. Otherwise your "allies" would betray you when least expected. A Kage sometimes has to do harsh decisions, lesser evil for greater good.

The truth of life is that one prospers at the expense of another, eat or be eaten, survival of the fittest etc. and that's true in fiction too.

Naruto's outlook on the world isn't realistic, it's idealistic and so is yours if you truly believe that once the war is over, everyone is going to be buddies with each other, ever since and forever.

Naruto can still mature though. I might have to disagree that his outlook was not realistic. Hashirama could be stupid sometimes yet he became an influential Hokage. Sasuke can be a great Hokage candidate (at a neutral point of view), but we're yet to know what his ideals are.

That's all the kid talked about in Part I and is still a driving force for him in Part II. While I agree with Elve that, as far as real-life shinobi logic goes, Sasuke is actually the better choice, plot wise, that'd be possibly the dumbest move imaginable.

The villagers recognize Naruto as a hero, Sasuke as an international criminal. The world recognizes Naruto as the one that is basically leading the war effort against Obito/Madara/Shinju and so far, everyone has gotten behind him to fight back. Sasuke, on the other hand, is barely trusted by his own comrades (save Naruto), and last time a policy meeting was held, the world still wanted Sasuke dead.

He won't be Hokage, no matter how smart he is nor what his qualifications are.

He won't be Hokage, no matter how powerful he is.

Sasuke screwed himself over by deciding he would be a big badass avenger, and then going and joining a terrorist organization after he got his revenge. Hokage isn't in his future. He'll be lucky if he's even welcome back in his home village after this is all said and done.

Edit: Also, Elve, everyone in the series is idealistic. Obito Uchiha is the one who thought realistically. "The world is hell. War is hell. Not everyone gets their dreams in life. Bad things happen to good people. There isn't always a such thing as hope." That was his mindset. Of course, he took it to the extreme and tried to destroy the world because of that. Every single other character, Sasuke included, looked at the world too idealistically.

Or do you really intend to tell me that Sasuke's vision that killing every man, woman, and child in Konoha would really "cleanse" his clan was at all realistic? Of course not. It was a psychotic delusion and one of the many reasons I hope he is casualty in this series.

I do know that Kishimoto favors Sasuke as a character but deep inside he wants Naruto to be Hokage because I talked to him in a Email, and I asked this question, and he doesn't want to dispute this because after the war is over whatever happens Naruto is the person for this job even most of the Shinobi that know Naruto knows this even the lazy Nara himself admitted this, and remember he is not dumb.

I also know by experience that Kishimoto likes to troll his fans in certain situations, and Sasuke is a bad choice for Hokage for one thing he has a criminal record as a terrorist, and he has tried to kill his own Shinobi members, and tried to kidnap a member of the Family of one of the Kages, and the Raikage is very stubborn especially when it comes to forgiveness.

Ok, I get it Sasuke has a criminal record which makes him an international criminal but that still wouldn't stop him from becoming hokage if he wanted to. He never said how he was going to become hokage he just said he wants it. For all we know he can take it by force and who's going to stop him outside of Naruto. Sasuke has been set up as the tragic antagonist from the beginning , he is that shade of grey the story needs.

Elveonora wrote:
Actually I don't want Naruto to be Hokage, so you might have a problem with me. He isn't fit for the job in my opinion, someone like Sasuke indeed is though.
Naruto is as much of an adequate Hokage candidate as Kiba is. Yes, he is a hero, but being a Kage equals responsibility.

Are you serious ? Sasuke who betray alliance more responsible than Naruto?

I'd like to point out my only problem with Sasuke is his current attitude toward his former teammates excluding Naruto. Kishi is writing him as a bigger A-Hole than necessary, Sasuke had no hatred for Sakura or Kakashi when he left the village and as we saw with Karin, Sasuke isn't above understanding, and sympathy, he apologized for what he did to Karin, so he knows how to act or to care, so why be such dick to Sakura, or Kakashi? Even if he doesn't love either of them as friends, he shouldn't use such hurtful words when both are trying to do nothing more than help save the world.

Selvokaz wrote:
I'd like to point out my only problem with Sasuke is his current attitude toward his former teammates excluding Naruto. Kishi is writing him as a bigger A-Hole than necessary, Sasuke had no hatred for Sakura or Kakashi when he left the village and as we saw with Karin, Sasuke isn't above understanding, and sympathy, he apologized for what he did to Karin, so he knows how to act or to care, so why be such dick to Sakura, or Kakashi? Even if he doesn't love either of them as friends, he shouldn't use such hurtful words when both are trying to do nothing more than help save the world.

The world is literately at an end and your biggest pet peeve with Sasuke is that he's an asshole? Are you serious? Did the sergeant in Full Metal Jacket say, "Well jee Lieutenant Snowball, would you like a muffin when you get tenth place in finishing the obstacle course?"

With all due respect, wake up. Sakura and Kakashi - hell the entire planet, actually - are useless. Sasuke had to be the realist in this sense, and Sakura and Kakashi knowing what went on outside wouldn't help them in the slightest. They were surrounded by Madara's shadows, and Sakura (whose fist is like a freakin' meteor) couldn't even punch through one. Yet you're complaining about how much a dick he is?

Sasuke didn't have to be there in the first place. What he could have done was not help, at all, and go to Konoha and be a BIGGER dick and destroy what's left of the place. But no, he said some bad words to Kakashi and Sakura (that were true), and all of a sudden he holds a candle to Orochimaru.

DaisukeDivine wrote:
Ok, I get it Sasuke has a criminal record which makes him an international criminal but that still wouldn't stop him from becoming hokage if he wanted to. He never said how he was going to become hokage he just said he wants it. For all we know he can take it by force and who's going to stop him outside of Naruto. Sasuke has been set up as the tragic antagonist from the beginning , he is that shade of grey the story needs.

While I agree that he's the shade of grey that they story needs, I can only imagine him taking Danzo's place. He would be the necessary evil that the village needs, but he sure as hell won't make the same mistakes Danzo did. Think about it; compare Sasuke's actions to what Danzo did (and think about what Danzo could've done his entire life). I'm not saying that neither should receive forgiveness, but between the two, I'd forgive Sasuke first. Sasuke knows what its like to become the collateral damage, and thanks to Itachi he's realized that. If anything, I believe Naruto's going to be Hokage once he's matured enough, Shikamaru's going to be like his right hand man because god knows he's got the brains, and Sasuke's just going to be part of the council with no real power unless Naruto/Shikamaru hands it to him.

DaisukeDivine wrote:
Ok, I get it Sasuke has a criminal record which makes him an international criminal but that still wouldn't stop him from becoming hokage if he wanted to. He never said how he was going to become hokage he just said he wants it. For all we know he can take it by force and who's going to stop him outside of Naruto. Sasuke has been set up as the tragic antagonist from the beginning , he is that shade of grey the story needs.

While I agree that he's the shade of grey that they story needs, I can only imagine him taking Danzo's place. He would be the necessary evil that the village needs, but he sure as hell won't make the same mistakes Danzo did. Think about it; compare Sasuke's actions to what Danzo did (and think about what Danzo could've done his entire life). I'm not saying that neither should receive forgiveness, but between the two, I'd forgive Sasuke first. Sasuke knows what its like to become the collateral damage, and thanks to Itachi he's realized that. If anything, I believe Naruto's going to be Hokage once he's matured enough, Shikamaru's going to be like his right hand man because god knows he's got the brains, and Sasuke's just going to be part of the council with no real power unless Naruto/Shikamaru hands it to him.

Again, that's what I believe would happen.

I don't disagree with that assessment considering how the story could play out and that would be the "good ending". Apart of me still thinks the whole i'll be Hokage is basically taken Konoha by force and making Naruto make a decision, the same way the first hokage had to make his decision on whether it be friend or village. But I can def subscribe to your theory though, Sasuke as the underground necessary evil would be a different but good approach for him.

Elveonora wrote:
The manga is written by Kishimoto Masashi the last time I checked, not by Foxie the Ten-Tailed. Don't be shocked once Sasuke becomes Hokage :)

Since when were you under the impression that I wasn't Kishimoto? *dramatic music*

In all seriousness, though, yeah, you're delusional. He won't be Hokage. To entertain such a thought is beyond even the limits of wishful thinking and even the best fanfiction can't make that remotely seem like a good, plot-derived decision.

There is no way sauske would become hokage, before he uttered those fateful words that he wanted to become hokage, was anyone even thinking that he could become hokage with his baggage? No. Just because he says he wants to become hokage does not mean that he will or that its his real goal. And whos to say hes not fighting just to gain more power in order to incite naruto into fighting him? However none of us can predict the future, we will have to sit paitently and wait till kishi reveals sauskes true intentions.

it doesn't really matter that Sasuke wants to be Hokage, it's the jounin shinobi who vote on that, and the Daimyo who gets the final say. So the people are the ones who actually get to vote, hence Itachi's message to Naruto. Unless Naruto's going to share that info with Sasuke and tell him it came from Itachi and all of a sudden Sasuke dedicates himself to make everyone happy, I doubt it'll ever come to pass that Sasuke stops being a royal douchebag.

Selvokaz wrote:
it doesn't really matter that Sasuke wants to be Hokage, it's the jounin shinobi who vote on that, and the Daimyo who gets the final say. So the people are the ones who actually get to vote, hence Itachi's message to Naruto. Unless Naruto's going to share that info with Sasuke and tell him it came from Itachi and all of a sudden Sasuke dedicates himself to make everyone happy, I doubt it'll ever come to pass that Sasuke stops being a royal douchebag.

I'm sorry, but I got to ask this question;

A royal douchebag? Compared to who? Orochimaru?

Lets have a small talk about how he IS a douche bag. That may settle on if he should be a candidate for Hokage or not.

I believe that the concept of Hokage (at least the position) will be removed in the end of the series. Naruto will become the "Hokage" or accepted leader of the people and Sasuke will focus on restoring his clan.

Naruto will realize that both Sasuke and him (Ying and Yang) will need to work together to restore peace in the world. Just the efforts of one half will not work.

Also if you have all noticed Sasuke's ideologies have started to become similar to Danzo (Sasuke believes that the root of all evil is the Shinobi system and the mistakes of the previous kage). This ideology of a ideal Hokage is might cause a final clash between Naruto and Sasuke, in which they will either both die or resolve their issues (thus resolving the cycle of mutual destruction of Indra and Asura).

Sasuke will thus be a sort of second in command or even a co-leader in Konoha ruling with Naruto at his side [no homo ;)]

Sakura will probably marry Sasuke (since she still obviously has feelings for him) but I am more concerned to see how she will convince Sasuke to be with her.

Shikamaru will obviously be the brain behinds Naruto's cabinet and provide the strategic support.

Naruto will obviously go with Hinata, since she was the first person to acknowledge him (not openly so Iruka's reference does not count).

It might even happen that the world will realize that the village system is flawed at the end (at least warring with one another based on nationalism) and resolve to uniting the shinobi world under peace with Naruto and Sasuke leading the movement.

I don't really blame sasuke for being the way he was. No one is born evil, it's the world that makes them that way. Sasuke was similar to Naruto, except sasuke didn't get the luxury of love and friends like naruto did when he needed them the most.

Sasuke is not a totally bad character. He has some flaws and all that, everyone has.
Besides, many people say that he is arrogant, but would you be if you have hordes of fangirls worship you and maybe even the village?
People say that he is emo, please, the trauma he got from seeing a massacre at a young age (7 is a young age) would probably affect his mentality. And not to mention that Itachi had showed the scene where he killed Fugaku and Mikoto to Sasuke?
The trauma would most likely make people go crazy.

Besides, the plan to destroy Leaf, would you want revenge to people that killed your family? Even though Sasuke's might be a little overreacting...

Well, he did became their allies later right? So Sasuke is not the worst character there is.

Though, I agree that Sasuke would never become the Hokage. Sakura is a no no. Kakashi could be considered. Naruto is also a NO if he didn't quickly abandon the naive ideals. And also become more intelligent, at least in battle. Because what I see is that Naruto often just rush into battle, though that could also be applied to rest of the Team 7...

Exactly! No one is a bad guy in Naruto (if we're only talking about the canon parts). Madara's Eye of the Moon Plan is even for his desire to have peace (though in the wrong way). I am glad when some bad guy turns into good guy. It makes the characters in Narutoverse more realistic and not cliche.

What about Orochimaru, Hidan, Kakuzu?

These guys dont seem the emo types who got affected by the Ninja world, in fact they seem to profit from it

Xconduitx14 wrote:
I don't really blame sasuke for being the way he was. No one is born evil, it's the world that makes them that way. Sasuke was similar to Naruto, except sasuke didn't get the luxury of love and friends like naruto did when he needed them the most.

I agree Naruto is a bit more "cliche" character when it comes to not giving up. A real person when put through his situations would break and loose hope a hundred times over

But i dont agree with you that Naruto got his friends when he needed them the most, i think you need to watch the series again, the kid was always alone. No one helped him, parents (shinobis) would tell their children to stay away from him, he wanted to be recognized so he became the class clown and decided to get noticed. The only people who did notice him after seeing Naruto put up with all that shit for all those years were Shikamaru and Choji. He slowly gained his friends over the years because he tried. Naruto never stopped trying and thus gained the admiration of almost every shinobi in the present Ninja world.

He didn't sit around like an anti-social loner with his "Too cool for School" attitude like Sasuke who didn't accept anyone from the looks of it (although thats what a real person who went through all that would do). Sasuke still fails to understand friendship as seen with his attitude towards his Taka team-mates.

Neither Sasuke nor Naruto got friends when they needed them the most, Naruto tried hard and thus gained friends but Sasuke didn't try and remained "cool"-- look where thats got him now.

I am not a Naruto fan, nor a Sasuke fan. But i know Sasuke is a good character, he did move to save Naruto while they were fighting Haku after all. That earned him my respect, although his attitude doesn't fit him. His attitude is poorly depicted by Kishimoto, i have seen many characters with a superiority complex, characters with a God-complex, they all seem well depicted but Sasuke's character development is rather poorly depicted in my opinion.

Regardless, i am a fan of neither of them since i consider both of them as immature brats who are getting all this love from fans because they are the central characters. I dont despise them but i am not a big fan of them either.

Naruto is meant to inspire people into never giving up, and also to show people that you can talk your way out of any shit XD

Sasuke's character, well i am not sure what it is meant to depict, but i think it is a message to people that- "Whatever you do dont end up like him"

To me, Shikamaru, Gaara and Kimimaro have been developed in a much better fashion (There are better characters but only these 3 are of the same age as Naruto and Sasuke)

I still put my money on Naruto over Sasuke anytime on the day, and you forgot to mention true Naruto was alone but his power to inspire people into never giving up is important because to me Sasuke gave up a long time ago, and Naruto could have easily given up with all the stuff that happened in his life as well.

You also forget that Toshirama mentions that Uchihas have a fatal flaw in their character that when a loved one of theirs dies they become emotionally comprimised and unstable.

I still want Naruto to be Hokage even if he is naive but you know that sooner or later he will change because no one stays the same forever, and he is still young in my opinion. I think that the world needs people like him because you need Hope for this insane world there has been too much blood that has been shed, and it is time to bring peace, and Sasuke is not the one to do it but Naruto will do it.

Some of you people in this thread are really special. And by special I mean "short, yellow bus" special. Look here's the question as I understand it, is/was Sasuke a bad guy? And should he be punished for his "crimes"? In my opinion anyone who answers these questions with a no, congratulations, you are a special person (see context above). Either that, or you're extremely delusional, take your pick. Sasuke WAS a bad guy for much of the series, there's no getting around that. And yes, he SHOULD be punished for his crimes in some form or fashion.

We can see this because of his various crimes that he committed, and yes, he did commit crimes! No matter what his childhood was like, that's no excuse. For those who are using the "he had a bad childhood" logic to defend him, let me ask you this, why didn't Naruto do the same? And if Naruto had done the same things Sasuke had, would you be defending him? Naruto DID have a messed up childhood, I would argue in someways he had it slightly worse, but as of yet he's never betrayed his comrades or defected from his village, he's never sided with an enemy of his village (Sasuke's done that TWICE), he's never assaulted leaders of other shinobi villages nor participated in the attempted kidnapping of relatives of said leaders (as Sasuke did with B).

Gaara as well, in fact I would argue that he's only one who's had a worse childhood than either Sasuke or Naruto. And for those of you who want to bring up Gaara's "crimes" in a retarded attempt to put him in the same category as Sasuke, let me ask you something. How does Gaara's participation in the In