Do We Really Need Another Three Years? TS4 at Four Years Old

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To quote the OP: “What some consider has been a short time for TS4, I consider has been long enough, and if four years is a short time then look at TS2 and what all it had in just four short years.” I agree with that and I agree with you: this so called quality difference shouldn’t be used as an argument here, because that’s opinion, not fact.

Ok, then let’s please just stick with specific facts and address the issue of taking so long and still missing content (for many simmers), etc, that is related to the OP instead of arguing about abstract opinions like this.

I think it’s fine for simmers to say they feel it’s the best iteration for them personally, and that’s fine. (And some Simmers started playing Sims in later games like Sims 3 or even Sims 4.)

If I liked a game, then I would obviously want it to last longer. That’s fine, and I don’t think we should be feeling bad for liking a game.

I have to consider that this game unlike the others is on a new platform, it has taken more time and I am tired of having to start over buying a whole new game when I had just really started getting into the version I was playing. My deepest wish would be for a complete version of all the best of The Sims, the most tech updated of all our favorite things in the sims, not cartoonist appearances, with multitasking, emotion, scuba diving, houseboats, seasons, pets, universities, vacations, family life, generations, ambitions, careers, home business, magic and vampires for those who want them (I don't but I want you to have what you want), new worlds, open neighborhoods, cars, the best of life cycles for every stage including babies and elders and all in-between, gardening skills, farm animals and the best of all building stuff and the ability to create with textures and patterns, hairstylist and home designing business and daycare business, ability to socialize the sims easier at different life stages, great hair and the best of CAS!
Do I ask for too much? Of course not, my hard earned dollars and yours has help to develop this game with our collective funding, we should have a voice and if there is even a slight chance that we will be heard it is worth the contribution, and I remember when EA and Maxis did listen when suggestions were made when the Sims 1 was out.
So EA here is the optimistic suggestion that the last The Sims Version be the very best of them all, what ever version that may be, in the meantime (because you stepped up with the toddlers) I plan to enjoy the journey and hope for the destination that I hope for.
And hey, look at it this way, we all are getting older and we have the potential of having the most fun of any generation so far in our elder years when our mobility is limited by living vicariously through our beloved sims. Zoom Zoom

I could easily see myself playing Sims 4 for quite some time after the game ends -- maybe even play around with CC a bit (not so much CAS CC but objects like the canning station and candlemaker). At the same time, I look forward to what a new version of The Sims would bring to the table, learning from past mistakes, taking the best of previous iterations and adding a new spin on old favorites.

(What you are about to read is my opinion and preference. I don't expect anyone to feel the same)

If we are just talking about time yes we need many more years. I mentioned before that I think it's the best game (for me). I have loved the way they focus on one area and flesh it out. Such as the spa pack, vampires, dine out.. even vacations that focus in one area. I'm well aware others don't think it should be done like this.. but it was and is. I personally like that it was done this way. Each pack takes time and we still have many standard themes left to look forward too. That too will take time. I've already stated most what I'm looking forward to in a prior post.. I've left out some that other simmers want. They should get it eventually and so should I. That will take time. I look forward to them and others simmers do also. All you have to do is look at the forums on what simmers are polling for and hoping will come out next to see that. People are looking forward to more. Not everyone mind you I wouldn't dare say that.
I think the way they are doing this will probably be carried forward to the next iteration. I'm an older simmer. I still want it all. I can't imagine not getting it all if I like it. I can see though as time goes on that not every simmer has to have everything anymore. Piecing together what you want is a thing for some people... and focused packs go farther to allow that. If it's done this way though it will take more time.
I hope they are more focused in the future also (Sims 5) especially with niche stuff or themes that don't have a mass appeal. Like any supernatural/alternate life state should have it's own pack or at least have options to turn them off or on. Some just don't want that stuff in their games.
The game was made to run well and last long. It's doing that for me. Recently I clocked my load times and they are basically the same as when the game launched. That surprised me actually. I don't pay much attention, but it's not like I have any time to do anything else during that load time. I hope when they start working on the next one they will build on the patterns they developed with this one.. tweaking them of course for the better but still fleshing out themes more broadly and making it functional.

Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
Put 'em together and what have you got?
Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo

This thread is not exactly a comparison of TS4 to the other games but where TS4 players say it's only been four years, TS2 had ended by this point and one last SP released in Nov. TS3 news was everywhere since it was supposed to, IIRC, be released in Feb. the following year. (But delayed).

By this time TS2 had several main worlds, unlimited subhoods, vacant templates(not the same as an empty template without townies) to build your own custom hoods, and unlimited townie populations. (As long as your pc could handle it). And Aliens, Abductions and Male Pregnancy.

University came with a new world, Sims could travel back and forth to any world (YAs) anytime.
New Careers and New Aspirations, new wants and wishes. Instruments to perform in bands. Part time jobs. A new life state, new aspiration rewards in every EP.

Open For Business came with crafting tables that not only your Sims could build things and use them (Not decor) and they actually worked, but so could their employees. Not just standing around or sitting around getting paid for nothing. OFB brought Unlimited Subhoods to add theirs or yours. New Aspirations, wants/wishes. Roam freely among as many subhoods as you like.

Nightlife came with vampires, restaurants, automobiles and limos< (base for sneak out and honeymoon). A new world, and Unlimited Downtown custom worlds, you fill up yourself. New Careers, Aspirations, wants and wishes. Chemistry system. Turns offs and ons.

New objects such as Karaoke and hot tubs. Live downtown or in your own subhoods, travel freely.

Pets, pet trainers and pet jobs. Small animals. Adopt a stray or give away a pet to be adopted next. Pets stores. Run a pet store. New life state.

Seasons, a new world. Gardening, actual working green house roofs, and walls, fruit trees, new perks for juicing. A new life state.

Bon Voyage, Three new worlds, and unlimited build/add your own vacation worlds. Swimming in oceans, (but we could swim in our own lakes since base game by using terrian tools). Tanning, sunburns, spas, new aspirations, wants, fears, wishes, new rewards, new careers.

FreeTime, New world, New Careers, New Aspirations, New wants, and fears, New hobbies, new hidden lots for hobby cliques. New Aspirations (2nd system with more perks and points.)

This doesn't reflect all the interactions added, objects or clothes, townies, NPCs, life states, new clocks that actually kept time with the game clock, or all the gameplay.

What some consider has been a short time for TS4, I consider has been long enough, and if four years is a short time then look at TS2 and what all it had in just four short years. TS4 can't even be compared since it's still so tiny a game.

My two cents, let's end it now, and get on with TS5 or whatever it is Maxis is working on.

ETA: And we had bodyshop and Home Crafter (thanks Maxis!) from day one. Does anyone think TS4 will ever catch up? I don't.

No lounging chairs. When is the last time we saw four or five new Aspirations and new rewards in an EP? (TS2 or TS3). Everyone says TS4 reminds them of TS2 and not TS3, yes, TS3 is an even bigger game, but considering what TS4 still doesn't have after four loooong years, TS2 looks like a monster of a game (and I didn't even scratch the surface) in it's four short years.

In all honesty, I don't know anymore. After being pulled along the way this far I've come to the point where I'm just going to sit back and watch. I can't say that I don't want it to end, but then again I cannot say I'm not curious to see how they may incorporate other content into the game that was also included in the previous iterations (e.g. University, Generations *No I do NOT consider Parenthood a generations pack*, Supernaturals etc.) and what new content they will add that we've never seen before. So I guess I'm just along for the ride and observing if that makes sense.

I will add this, however; In regards to your comparison, It's really embarrassing for TS4...

> @Cinebar said:
> This thread is not exactly a comparison of TS4 to the other games but where TS4 players say it's only been four years, TS2 had ended by this point and one last SP released in Nov. TS3 news was everywhere since it was supposed to, IIRC, be released in Feb. the following year. (But delayed).
>
> By this time TS2 had several main worlds, unlimited subhoods, vacant templates(not the same as an empty template without townies) to build your own custom hoods, and unlimited townie populations. (As long as your pc could handle it). And Aliens, Abductions and Male Pregnancy.
>
> University came with a new world, Sims could travel back and forth to any world (YAs) anytime.
> New Careers and New Aspirations, new wants and wishes. Instruments to perform in bands. Part time jobs. A new life state, new aspiration rewards in every EP.
>
> Open For Business came with crafting tables that not only your Sims could build things and use them (Not decor) and they actually worked, but so could their employees. Not just standing around or sitting around getting paid for nothing. OFB brought Unlimited Subhoods to add theirs or yours. New Aspirations, wants/wishes. Roam freely among as many subhoods as you like.
>
> Nightlife came with vampires, restaurants, automobiles and limos< (base for sneak out and honeymoon). A new world, and Unlimited Downtown custom worlds, you fill up yourself. New Careers, Aspirations, wants and wishes. Chemistry system. Turns offs and ons.
>
> New objects such as Karaoke and hot tubs. Live downtown or in your own subhoods, travel freely.
>
> Pets, pet trainers and pet jobs. Small animals. Adopt a stray or give away a pet to be adopted next. Pets stores. Run a pet store. New life state.
>
> Seasons, a new world. Gardening, actual working green house roofs, and walls, fruit trees, new perks for juicing. A new life state.
>
> Bon Voyage, Three new worlds, and unlimited build/add your own vacation worlds. Swimming in oceans, (but we could swim in our own lakes since base game by using terrian tools). Tanning, sunburns, spas, new aspirations, wants, fears, wishes, new rewards, new careers.
>
> FreeTime, New world, New Careers, New Aspirations, New wants, and fears, New hobbies, new hidden lots for hobby cliques. New Aspirations (2nd system with more perks and points.)
>
> Apartment Life, Apartments, build your own. Mix and match condos with duplexes whatever, build it your way. New World. etc. etc.
>
> This doesn't reflect all the interactions added, objects or clothes, townies, NPCs, life states, new clocks that actually kept time with the game clock, or all the gameplay.
>
> What some consider has been a short time for TS4, I consider has been long enough, and if four years is a short time then look at TS2 and what all it had in just four short years. TS4 can't even be compared since it's still so tiny a game.
>
> My two cents, let's end it now, and get on with TS5 or whatever it is Maxis is working on.
>
> ETA: And we had bodyshop and Home Crafter (thanks Maxis!) from day one. Does anyone think TS4 will ever catch up? I don't.
>
> No lounging chairs. When is the last time we saw four or five new Aspirations and new rewards in an EP? (TS2 or TS3). Everyone says TS4 reminds them of TS2 and not TS3, yes, TS3 is an even bigger game, but considering what TS4 still doesn't have after four loooong years, TS2 looks like a monster of a game (and I didn't even scratch the surface) in it's four short years.

TS5 is going to be an awful game if they were unable to figure out what the core issues with 4 is. The sims 1-3 are all good games, even a decade after release. You can't say the same for Sims 4, many people who liked the past games find this one to be boring after only a day of playing it. This game has serious core issues that could be fixed. I'd rather not have them repeat the same mistake in sims 5, WHILE having to wait another 4 years for them to release basic content updates.

I agree we should stick to the subject of the OP, but I wonder (and only she can confirm that) if everybody understands really what Cinebar is trying to say with her OP. Which by the way takes Sims 2 as a comparison example, not 3. And the comparison isn’t quality - which indeed is personal preference - but quantity. If I may quote a post that summarizes it perfectly (earlier in this topic):

I agree we should stick to the subject of the OP, but I wonder (and only she can confirm that) if everybody understands really what Cinebar is trying to say with her OP. Which by the way takes Sims 2 as a comparison example, not 3. And the comparison isn’t quality - which indeed is personal preference - but quantity. If I may quote a post that summarizes it perfectly (earlier in this topic):

I think if the game doesn’t feel complete by four years old, there is something wrong. I also wonder how complete it will feel in three years (assuming we get three years worth of content)

That’s the subject here, not ‘I don’t like’.

Yes, exactly what you said. That was the point for this thread. After four years, TS4 still feels pretty empty, especially in the area of any new aspirations and or traits, or newer emotions, and life time rewards as compared to TS2 or even worse compared to TS3. It's just so empty after four years it's hard to think I would spend more money and wait and wait and wait, another three years for it to be fuller. I'm looking forward to see what happens with a new game they seemed to be going to build. I might like it better.

"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

(What you are about to read is my opinion and preference. I don't expect anyone to feel the same)

If we are just talking about time yes we need many more years. I mentioned before that I think it's the best game (for me). I have loved the way they focus on one area and flesh it out. Such as the spa pack, vampires, dine out.. even vacations that focus in one area. I'm well aware others don't think it should be done like this.. but it was and is. I personally like that it was done this way. Each pack takes time and we still have many standard themes left to look forward too. That too will take time. I've already stated most what I'm looking forward to in a prior post.. I've left out some that other simmers want. They should get it eventually and so should I. That will take time. I look forward to them and others simmers do also. All you have to do is look at the forums on what simmers are polling for and hoping will come out next to see that. People are looking forward to more. Not everyone mind you I wouldn't dare say that.
I think the way they are doing this will probably be carried forward to the next iteration. I'm an older simmer. I still want it all. I can't imagine not getting it all if I like it. I can see though as time goes on that not every simmer has to have everything anymore. Piecing together what you want is a thing for some people... and focused packs go farther to allow that. If it's done this way though it will take more time.
I hope they are more focused in the future also (Sims 5) especially with niche stuff or themes that don't have a mass appeal. Like any supernatural/alternate life state should have it's own pack or at least have options to turn them off or on. Some just don't want that stuff in their games.
The game was made to run well and last long. It's doing that for me. Recently I clocked my load times and they are basically the same as when the game launched. That surprised me actually. I don't pay much attention, but it's not like I have any time to do anything else during that load time. I hope when they start working on the next one they will build on the patterns they developed with this one.. tweaking them of course for the better but still fleshing out themes more broadly and making it functional.

Yes, the game loading at the same speed it did when it was just base would be a good thing. But no doubt it is slower than it was at release. It stands to reason it would be somewhat slower. But if we know and remember what is in the others by the end of four years, I don't think anyone can say yes, TS4 has just as much. It might have more clothes, or even more hair but it doesn't have as much to do. We had all that TS4 has and like 50x more. We still have missing interactions that seem to be impossible to pull off or maybe they would have done those things already. Like slow dance, facing each other while dancing, and or even a lounge chair. I think if it was easy a lounge chair would have been added when we got pools, and ladders. Or even to go along with the hot tubs (which by the way, are still bugged as far as I have read), but we didn't. So, what does this all mean, it takes seven years to build a lounge chair? I don't know that's a pretty absurd example by me, I guess, but logically four years was plenty of time to do it. But TS4 players will still be holding out on year seven...waiting on that lounge chair or slow dance or one or two more aspiratons? I think the new game (whatever it might be) might be better, could be, or maybe not, but I'm hoping they don't pattern it after TS4 in the way they have set priorities for TS4 and or when they release content like they did for TS4.

Anyone would be laughing that it took seven years to get some things and 50x more interactions as the other games had, after seven long years.

"Games Are Not The Place To Tell Stories, Games Are Meant To Let People Tell Their Own Stories"...Will Wright.

I think if the game doesn’t feel complete by four years old, there is something wrong. I also wonder how complete it will feel in three years (assuming we get three years worth of content)

Exactly. Honestly TS4 will most likely never feel complete. It's the way the game was initially designed and with unsignificant "features" in DLC's we will never feel like they even added something. In comparison to previous games not much was added to expand the gameplay, in a four years time. There's a lot of set dressing and none important features in TS4.

I agree we should stick to the subject of the OP, but I wonder (and only she can confirm that) if everybody understands really what Cinebar is trying to say with her OP. Which by the way takes Sims 2 as a comparison example, not 3. And the comparison isn’t quality - which indeed is personal preference - but quantity. If I may quote a post that summarizes it perfectly (earlier in this topic):

I think if the game doesn’t feel complete by four years old, there is something wrong. I also wonder how complete it will feel in three years (assuming we get three years worth of content)

That’s the subject here, not ‘I don’t like’.

Yes, exactly what you said. That was the point for this thread. After four years, TS4 still feels pretty empty, especially in the area of any new aspirations and or traits, or newer emotions, and life time rewards as compared to TS2 or even worse compared to TS3. It's just so empty after four years it's hard to think I would spend more money and wait and wait and wait, another three years for it to be fuller. I'm looking forward to see what happens with a new game they seemed to be going to build. I might like it better.

The Sims 4 hasn't felt empty to me since we got the Toddler patch in January 2017. That's when I considered the base game to be finally complete.

People are going to have the same complaint about Sims 5 if/when it gets here -- it's going to feel just as empty when it launches because a base game is simply that, a base for future content. The content doesn't even have to be paid content -- maybe a player just buys the base game, then uses CC for additional CASsets or Buy Mode stuf. You have your Sims with their personality traits (whether you use a trait system like Sims 3 or 4 or go more with a points system in various categories like Sims 1 and 2), CAS to make them look unique, the world(s) they live in, jobs so they can earn money, and things for Sims to do when they're not out earning money (skillbuilding, entertainment etc.). The life stages should feel fully developed, with their own motivations. Interactive babies that can be played with and give them a head start on development, toddlers developing basic skills, children starting their school career and making friends outside the house without parental assistance, teens testing the limits on what they can and can't do, YAs learning to balance career and fun and perhaps starting their families, adults focused more on career and family and less on partying, and elders who have more to their lives than waiting for Grimmy to show up.

Players also have differing ideas of what would make their game complete. For some, it's the "realism" packs like Generations/Parenthood. Others want the adventure type packs -- World Adventures, Jungle Adventure, Bon Voyage. Still others want the quirky, like adding magic to the game, or supernaturals like vampires or aliens. Still others want content that can fill in for what they missed in their lives; players without families might appreciate a pack like Parenthood, or if they couldn't go to college they'll want a University pack so their Sims can have a better life than they did themselves. The Sims series makes room for all different sorts of playstyles, unlike many other games out there with specific goals set by the game. Players also want new content, or new twists on old themes. Take a look at all the threads in Ideas Corner and you'll see there are a lot of potentials there. Some of them might not be possible now, but they could be added as potential Sims 5 ideas. I personally would love a pack to improve the current education system -- not just University, but learning at all levels, and the ability to create custom schools with a system similar to the GT club system.

@stilljustme2 .. Your post spoke to me.
To me my game becomes complete when the characters can be fleshed out through everything from clothes to gameplay to animations. This series is giving that to me. When Spa Day came out for instance I saw a new agey character. With crystals ect in her house. She liked to do yoga and practice massage. Between the animations being so fluid and involved and all the "stuff" that could be used in her home (and often picked up and used in other places in the world) I could have that character. I didn't need to add anything .. I could have through cc or mods and maybe one day I will but I never felt I needed too.
Sure I have to wait on some character types. I'm waiting to make a swamp witch (I know we might not get a swampy world.. might have to fudge to build some lots). I'm positive we will get witches though. I'm also positive that in whatever form they bring them in they will be much more fully done than in the games I played before. For that I'm prepared to wait.
I still think it basically comes down to if you like the game or not. If you don't well it smarts to have to wait. I understand that. I waited out the Sims 3 era, really just walked away. When I started seeing ads for Sims 4 I think about a year before it came out it interested me. That's when I had hope that I'd have a sims game I could play again.

Sala-gadoola-menchicka-boo-la bibbidi-bobbidi-boo
Put 'em together and what have you got?
Bibbidi-bobbidi-boo

Personally, I hope EA have been listening to it's players and are planning a game which has the 'potential' to add those things they 'left out' of Sims 4. Even if the base game has to start from scratch, speaking for myself, I will latch onto, and remain, with a game which has potential for future content, even if the base game is slightly lacking at the beginning. Just knowing a game has the potential to add back aspects of the game I personally enjoy would be enough for me to stay hooked and spend my money. I don't feel that Sims 4 has this potential - there are no cars, you can't edit a town because there isn't a town, you can't place lots, there is no CASt, there is no hope of creating a world, or making patterns - nothing!

While it is true that Sims 4 has seen some good things added, none of them can really make up for the absence of creative potential for the player. The only creativity really going on is by the developers and the artists creating pre-made content - much of which should really have been left in the hands of the players by providing them with creative tools for editing...in my view! I know many players are enjoying this game and that's great for them, but it's not great for me. I've really lost out with Sims 4 and I miss the enjoyment I used to have of editing towns and worlds, creating patterns and all the rest that came with it.

I think I'm being very patient hoping and waiting for these things to come back into the game, whether it be Sims 4 or Sims 5. I don't care which it is - I just hope it won't be too long.

My thoughts are that I invested in everything TS4 currently has to offer, and my Sim story has been using TS4 since it's release in 2014. I really don't want to start all over again. I would prefer they focus on TS4, especially fixing the mass amount of bugs in the game, rather than starting a new Sims game.

Perhaps I’m an exception but the game loading at the same speed it did when it was just base is of no importance to me, if the longer waiting time assures me of a full (overwhelming when people play it for the first time with all packs installed; I felt that when I started playing Sims 2 UC) experience. Waiting 10 minutes for a great experience beats waiting 2 minutes for limitations and repetition for me any time. I can wait, I don’t mind, if that’s what it takes I’ll gladly wait. Apart from the fact also Sims 4 takes longer to load than it did in the beginning and I have just 3 EP’s and 3 GP’s. You won’t hear me complain about that.

The reason the other games lasted 4 years was because they could only last 4 years. Sims 1 really was showing its age at 4 years, and Sims 2 and 3 had the same engine, so they were bound to last roughly the same length of time.

Sims 4 doesn't feel complete, nor does it feel like there's something that could replace it.

People play Sims 4 on laptops that struggled with Sims 3 and expect to be able to play Sims 5 easily, and say "I'd be happy to buy a new computer for SIms 5 if it's good,". Like a gameplay PC is the free prize inside a box of cereal. Oh, and like Sims 5 base game will somehow be more complete than Sims 4 base game.

"I'm not saying Stuff Packs thrill me to my wretched, rotting core. I'm just saying that we only get one expansion pack a year because Devs only have one pair of hands. You want to buy more half-finished packs like Get To Work? Do you?"

Sims 4 definitely feels like there’s something that could replace it. In fact many people do replace it by playing predecessors. So, again, that is very personal. The fact Sims 4 doesn’t feel complete apparently to those who love it as their main (or only) game actually proves this topic’s contingent value. Because that’s clearly a new complaint to this franchise. Again, from fans, not from people who aren’t happy with a certain version.

If you can replace it by playing its predecessors, then what's the point in shelling out for a fifth one?

What I mean when I say 'replace' is that is there something that would be more advanced? Open World seems more advanced, but it's an engine choice and has limitations.

"I'm not saying Stuff Packs thrill me to my wretched, rotting core. I'm just saying that we only get one expansion pack a year because Devs only have one pair of hands. You want to buy more half-finished packs like Get To Work? Do you?"

Because I don’t particularly want to play the predecessor, I want to play a current, new game. Playing that predecessor is fun (because it always was and that hasn’t changed) but it’s also a necessity. Because nothing new will be added to it, ever. When I think of a replacement I’m thinking of a different, better engine that will allow open world again and less limitations/more options and creativity and variety. That engine choice with limitations is my problem, but it’s a problem connected to Sims 4 and hopefully not to a Sims 5.

"I'm not saying Stuff Packs thrill me to my wretched, rotting core. I'm just saying that we only get one expansion pack a year because Devs only have one pair of hands. You want to buy more half-finished packs like Get To Work? Do you?"

No. Please don’t tell me what I want and I won’t tell you what you want, we play predecessors as a necessary replacement, not because those predecessors as such are all we want (most people want combinations and things handled better). And how is the engine problem tied to Sims 2 and 3 when Sims 2 didn’t have an open world? They’ll just have to create a game with a good engine that can handle open world just fine. Now, back on topic please, this topic is not about engines and open world. The fact Sims 4 doesn’t feel complete apparently to those who love it as their main (or only) game actually proves this topic’s contingent value. Because that’s clearly a new complaint to this franchise. Again, from fans, not from people who aren’t happy with a certain version.

I stand by what I said earlier in this topic. Its been four years. Four years and I still see people say things like "It has potential" - After four years it hasn't reached its potential there is something wrong. Even with Seasons the game still feels like its missing something. I realise that's a personal thought but I know from speaking to other simmers they share that view. Of course they are others that don't share that opinion and that's fine.

If the game ended tomorrow, it wouldn't feel complete. That's for me what it comes down to. I don't want carbon copies of previous features but I don't want features coming back individually or thrown in with a "twist" that becomes more of a hindrance than a help. I think the way the game is set up it will always leave people wanting more. A quick glance at the threads saying they are unhappy with not having any dlc to buy that month proves that even when we get content that feeling of "I just got a new pack and its super exciting" doesn't last that long. I think it will always feel like a game that is missing something.