[10 M] Stone Guard wiping for 3rd week in a row

last expansion we were doing Heroic modes in DS but on this one we cannot get past the stone Guard

Roster has been shifting a lot (especially the tanks) which contributes to our problems on our best attempt we hit the enrage time so not sure if we moved from a tank / heals issue to a dps issue this time any help and pointers is appreciated

That same healer and another DPS need to learn to move out of the purple stuff. Other than that it looks that you guys were doing things correctly, there are no double overloads, so the boss management looks nicely done.

DPS is very very low for everyone in the group. Top parses are 100% higher dps and gear doesn't double dps that quickly. It can be hard to judge why (gearing, playstyle or strat can all contribute). Your disc priest is doing less healing than the DK tank and isn't using his buttons correctly (never used spirit shell, never cast archangel) - pretty basic parts of disc - better to bring a dps and sit him if you are having such dps issues. Looking into each player, I'm seeing some dps issues that come up - warrior's dragon roar never hit? Mage never casts alter time.

DS had a 30% debuff that let you play poorly and still kill nearly everything, even on heroic, so if your group wants to push into this content, tell them they may need to step up their game and do some class research.

This is normal, right? I don't see any tile buffs, so I assume so (WoL mislabels sometimes).

(Looking at your linked best attempt) Damage is incredibly low, as others have said. Always prepot. Always. BL on the pull. More gear is not really necessary as long as you're 463+ ilvl (didn't armory anyone). People just need to play better.

Fire mage is the only class you have that I have any experience with. He appears to be ignoring Pyroblast procs? He got 24 procs, but only used it 15 times. Ignite uptime is only 91.5%, which means he's just not casting sometimes. Living Bomb uptime is pretty low as well. I imagine your other DPS are playing just as badly.

Your Priest healer is lagging pretty far behind, but your druid is pulling enough HPS to pretty much make up for it. You should be ok there, but any boost can help.

Your tanks appear to be doing their job since you guys aren't showing bad overloads. I noticed you run two DK tanks, this may cause a problem for you if your healers struggle on Gara'jal because they take in a little more damage than other tanks because they are built around healing themselves back up. This causes an issue because voodoo dolls will take more damage. The tradeoff is that you will have to heal that tank a little less, but be more careful with the other people.

Your DPS need to step it up some, and make sure they all know that they can use any cleave/multi-dot'ing mechanics available to them.

General strategies that I would recommend are:

Bloodlust at the beginning as soon as the first Guardian is Petrifying and the tanks have them in position. There is typically less stuff to avoid and will maximize your damage on the boss.

Have your shaman alternate using Windwalk totem during Cobalt Petrification and break as many Crystal Traps as possible.

Keep your tank from moving too much. The Guardians have a decent-sized hitbox and your melee can move quite a bit to avoid Crystal Traps and Amethyst Pools. Try to have him sit tight in a spot as long as he can without taking unnecessary damage or just having melee get completely overloaded with pools and traps.

If Jasper Guardian is up, everyone should stick close to melee range. If two ranged players get chained together, they can stick together and find safe spots to hold still and maximize damage.

If there are any other specific aspects that are really giving you trouble just mention them and I'll try and give you some advice and explain how we handle it.

aye 10 man normal mode fight so I take it it's not as much a gear Issue and more of a learn to play your class issue?

Yes. People seem to have low uptime on vital debuffs. They're just not playing well. Most of MSV gets pugged on my server regularly (and my server is not exactly fantastic).

Link them icy-veins. Their class guides are very good. You can also post logs in the appropriate class forums on here for some more help and specific areas your raiders can improve to increase their DPS. Some of them have a sticky for "improve my DPS" posts, so make sure you look for that; else your thread gets deleted.

Your mage is awful and doesn't know their class worth a damn it looks like. Maybe I'm not reading the logs right but it doesn't look like they used their lvl 90 talent once. Uses scorch instead of fireball. Just bad bad mage. Looks like the rest of your dps is pretty bad too. It's not a gear issue, it's a l2p issue.

Your disc priest is pretty bad, but dps is the big issue here. Even in all blues this fight shouldn't be taking 8+ minutes. There are a lot of resources out there for learning to play whatever spec you're looking for. The class forums here usually have pretty good basic guides that you should have your dps read.

Also make sure people are cleaving or multi-dotting the second dog, if they can.

That disc priest is bad and that is with Disc being very op at the moment. My best advice is to make every DPS download spellflash and their respective class and just hit the blinking lights so they can not mess up their rotation because currently it's pretty bad on all fronts.

It's true that skill > gear but better gear can't do anything but help. Gives you more room for error.

Better gear won't boost the DPS of a terrible player by as much as it will a great player. Considering everyone in that log is doing 20-40% of what they should, even full LFR gear (the only gear they have access to) is not going to get them a kill.

I'm confused how so little DPS was even happening. This looks like a case of several possible mistakes: AOE when there's only two targets, not using cleaves, attacking the lone dog, switching the bosses so haphazardly that melee have a lot of downtime (as it does look like the damage there is really bouncy) and plainly just not following basic rotations.

Honestly, I'd just ask everyone to "double check" their rotations and MoP changes on a few sites (noxxic, icy veins, mmo-c's specific theorycrafting stickies, etc) and especially the disc priest as saving Spirit Shell for the explosions can make it extremely trivial. Our own healer was able to do that when he still hadn't gotten Carapace Breaker (to use his 489 offhand with) until a few weeks ago.

All classes to 100. Check. Currently playing Final Fantasy XIV. Homogenization is extreme, but classes are still fun.
My opinions: 5.0 was the golden age of content, the pruning was far too light and 6.2 is actually an enjoyable timesink.

I second the motion to download something such as Spellflash and bang on a target dummy until they become more familiar with the proper rotation/priority (outside of execute, of course). May as well double down on inspecting their reforge and enchants too.

If any huff and puff for the extra work tell them LFR is as far as they will get because those numbers are simply unacceptable, especially for being such a cleave-friendly fight and having several classes which excel at cleave damage.

I hate to say it, but looking at the logs and based on those numbers, a lot of your players just need to go back to learning their basic rotation and stat priorities. Some of them are probably still in cataclysm mode and not gemming/enchanting properly (or at all in some cases) or using the wrong rotation. The bottom line is that even at 463 ilvl, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to pull 40k+ on this fight, particularly when there are no Jasper chains forcing you to constantly adjust your position to another person.

Without going into rotation details, the thing that stands out most to me is that half of your dps aren't even hit/exp capped. To me, that's just unacceptable. Between gems/enchants/reforging, there's no excuse for not getting to those thresholds. Your enhance shaman in particular missed a few lava lashes, your mage missed some pyroblasts, etc. All of these add up to a lot of lost damage that just shouldn't happen.

Bottom line, assuming you're the raid leader or officer, tell them to get their stuff together if they want to keep raiding. Ignoring such simple things as setting up gear properly and learning rotations should be a basic requirement of raiding and without at least that much effort, you aren't going to get more than a handful of fights down until you seriously overgear them.

You're 3 healing a 2 heal fight and have 2 of the best self healing tanks, The dps provided sucks also, not to be harsh but that is how it is.

The priest is doing quite bad hps, but then again as i said it is a 2 heal fight so it may be a case of just being Over kill, hes trying to heal damage that isn't their due to the other 2 healers being faster

Had a 5 second look at dps, looked at warrior and hes doing around 25k which is awful, and the only other person i looked at was the lwoest dps after the warrior, the mage. The mage used scorch 70 times whereas fireball was as little as 16.
Overall all dps should pull 35k+ easily, the req i would say should be 50k but it isn't needed for stone guards.

I think you should tell your raiders to go look up some rotation guides or to sit at a dummy, doing a 6m damage test till they can push a consistant dps number you expect them to pull (50k?).

I haven't checked too much into the logs as there are so many errors noticed with a quick glance, but i'm assuming the healing is struggling, i noticed the wipe was because of the tanks dying... but also dps died to cobalt mines (lol).

Fixing the dps by going dummies will help a lot and may be enough to get you the kill, as without fixing dps you will hit enrage but even with the best dps, people shouldnt be standing in the mines, i would point this out that a few died to the mines so that your raiders are aware of it because if they struggle on mines ( not checked in depth but on death overview of that 1 attempt 2+ died to mine), then you will struggle on a lot more fights.

Our raid leader is the mage my toon is the druid healer but trying to help as much as possible so we can suceed we usually have 2 mobs on 1 tank and the other mob on the OT now that it was mentioned the tanks were moving a bit too much for my taste which could impact the dps.

Im posting now on the respective class threads to see if I can get some tips to pass around.