"...to take truth for granted is not to know it. Truth not won is not possessed. We are not entitled to truths for which we have not fought." --- (Marauders of Gor, p.7)http://clockworkkitteh.blogspot.com/

I visited and since I'm one of those weird people who take time to read the rules, Tor is definitely not a place for me...

There are annoying differences regarding the OOC treatment following you play a free or a slave. I noticed, too, a few details which make me think that the owners are not so well familiarized with the Taharian environment as described in Tribesmen of Gor.

"ALL NEW SLAVES, PLEASE BE AWARE: THERE IS A 30 DAY PROBATION PERIOD IN THE CITY OF TOR. If within the 30 days you find Tor is not what you wish please see the Vizier to have your collar removed and have yourself removed from the City Roles. "

Let's take a look at the applications

Free person character's application form:

► Show Spoiler

CITY OF TOR

Application for Citizenship

PLEASE READ -THIS IS IMPORTANT PRIOR INFORMATION and once this application submitted means that you consent of our LAWS, WAYS and RULES.

If you are interested in become citizen of the City of Tor, please complete the following Application for Citizenship and return it to Khalid Ibn Tariq Ibn Saleh, Vizier of Toror Infinatedepths (Infi), First Girl of the city who will pass it on to the proper persons.

Please re-title the application with your SL name in it, as that assists the Scribes in properly filing the paperwork. Also send an IM informing that you applied and sent the application.

Applications can about take 24 to process. During that time you should try to meet and interact with as many Citizens of Tor as possible.

Remember, Tor is a city of stories, so feel free to think of just why you are here and how you came to the city and the role you wish to play to interact and play your part in the city life.

You do not have to live within the city limits of Tor to be a citizen. Although you have to be conscience that the time spent here in the city will help us to grow. Is known that when you meet people you tend to interact and interaction is what makes the city alive since more and more will gather. If you not here you hardly will meet other people. The more time you spend here surely more people will be with you.

By submitting your application for citizenship states that you, as applicant, understand this fully and agree to abide to the LAWS and specific RULES of Tor.

When you are accepted as a citizen, you will be issued a citizen Tag or a group/position tag accordingly with the city needs and your skills.

AT THAT POINT YOU WILL START A "PROBATION" PERIOD OF 30 DAYS. NOTE that your ACTIVE participation and presence is required to determine your suitability as a Citizen of Tor. If you are not present and active you cannot be evaluated. PLEASE NOTE: ALL CITIZENS, FREE OR SLAVE HAVE A 30 DAY PROBATION PERIOD during which time you get to know Tor and Tor gets to know you. If at any time during that 30 days you feel TOR is not right for you, please speak to the Mods so we can take you off the roles. Thank you.

Also note that if you are absent from the city for a period more than 30 days - unless you have informed Infi of the absence and reasons - you will be ejected since we take it that you not interested (or maybe you are playing an Alt somewhere else).

Please fill out the application in detail, using as much space as you require. Please do NOT omit or delete any questions. Each member in the household needs to complete a citizenship form, with the exception of slaves. The ones that come as your property are to be listed in this application.

(Tor's community is based on friendship and closeness as human beings but be careful about giving your data too freely - you shouldn't share any personal/private information such as address, phone numbers, real names, etc.)

APPLICATION FORM

IMPORTANT:

All the information on this form is kept private.

Date of Application:

SL Name:

What Time Zone are you in?

RL age (we are an adult sim and I do require this info):

What days of the Week do you expect to be in the City? Mostly week-nights (M-F)

What hours?

Are you a Free Man (FM) or Free Woman (FW)?

Number of Free in your Household? Name of Free in your Household:

Are you already a member of a Caste? If so, list your Caste, title, and your responsibilities or experience.

(If you have one) Would you like to be of that Caste in Tor?-

OWNED SLAVE INFORMATION:Are you bringing any slaves with you? Number of Slaves? If so, list them (SL full names please):- --

Will your slaves frequent the city and are they allowed to serve all Free? (note that your slaves will follow your restrictions)-

What Restrictions to they have? (please resume restrictions to each one):-

SL GOR QUESTIONS:Were you previously a citizen of another Gorean city or place in Second Life? If so what cities?-

Do you have your own place or would you like/prefer be residing in the city? -

Tell us a little of you and your character history ( remember, the more you put here the more you can be implemented into storylines and plots in the city )

-

GOREAN QUESTIONS:Are you Gorean? - How long have you been Gorean?-

If so, will it bother you that we may not be completely BTB or follow the books precisely or interpret them differently then most?(Yes we are strict on the gorean ways and Laws but we are not believers that the books are bibles to be blindely followed. This city has their own ruling as stated in the gorean laws)-

As briefly as possible, explain what Gor means to you:-

What is the extent of your knowledge of Gor?-

What do you want from Gor?-

What experience do you have with Gorean communities?-

Do you have a specialization within a caste (e.g. for scribes which branch of knowledge is your specialty, for physicians which branch of medicine, for warriors do you specialize in a particular weapon, for builders do you design weapons, buildings, clothing):- COMMUNITY PARTICIPATION/COMMITMENT:Tor is a community supported sim where all participate at his or her will. In here no one has to financially pay/contribute. Tor does not depend on support by all citizens, you are free to contribute with whatever amount you feel like it (or not).

How do you think you would contribute positively to our community? (non-financially, smiles):

Tell us something about you that you would like us to know:

RP EXPERIENCE:Have you ever RPed in places in Second Life other then SL Gor? If so, where/what kind of RP.

Have you ever RPed any table top or Live Action Role Plays in RL? (Example: Dungeons & Dragons, Vampire the Masquerade, 5 Rings, Exaulted, etc.):

Have you ever RPed or participated in IRC Gor, YAHOO/MSN Chats or Palace? If so, what rooms have you been involved in?

***********************************Your application will be reviewed by City Officials, and you will be contacted within 24 hours..

PLEASE NOTE: ALL CITIZENS, SLAVE OR FREE HAVE A 30 DAY PROBATION PERIOD during which time you get to know Tor and Tor gets to know you. If at any time during that 30 days you feel TOR is not right for you, please speak to the Vizier and request a release. Thank you.

This questionnaire is for us to know more about you AND to support your official slave papers. Do not hold back information. Soon or later the truth will come to us. (This questionnaire is strictly for the eyes that file it)

Once this application is completed please return it to Khalid Ibn Tariq Ibn Saleh, Vizier of Tor or Infinatedepths (Infi) First Girl of Tor.******************************************

1) Any limits, that you just won't do, anything at all that you just will refuse to make your avatar RP?

2) Would you like to discuss OOCly with a potential owner before engaging to be their slave?

3) Have you read any of the Gor books, if so, which?

Bio Information this is an adult explicit area: we need to know who's here

Age (RL):

(Tor community is based in friendship and closeness as human beings but be careful to give your data freely - you shouldn't share any personal/private information such as address, phone numbers, real names, etc.)

Clearly, if you play a slave in Tor, your backstory, RP experience, commitment etc, don't interest much the sim admins... It's so more important to know if you are submissive enough to serve the free....! (anyway, if you're not a sub, why do you role-play a slave, hmmm...?)

And my favorite: Do you know the slave paces, hmmm? 34 books read, I still don't know the slave paces. Must be because they are movements and expressions a slave perform under the instructions of a man and not sentences to know by heart...? How hard is it, to stop confusing slave paces and litanies, in 2017...?

I love too, when you're taught your role in slave rules. Because of course, when you play a slave, you always need that kind of reminder (which I didn't find in the application form for free persons characters).

The requirement to visit the vizier to get your avatar's collar removed is interesting... I suppose that slave players will be deemed rude, if they just detach their collar from their avi instead of asking the vizier to do it?

And I loved this, in the visitor rules:"BARBARIANS FROM EARTH AND IN EARTH CLOSING ARE NOT ALLOWED INSIDE THE CITY. If you want to visit, take one of the free outfits given at the landing area and use it. Search for the outfit giver at the landing area and there you have clothes and rules to read. We do not accept barbarians “observers” in the city. They have to be dressed as Goreans. The only allowance here is that they do not have to RP so they are not allowed to interrupt RP unless spoken to."

"Barbarians observers" haha!

The dress code is not bad, too.. So, in the slave rules, slave players must not dress their avatar with a camisk. Which makes sense, as in the books, in the Tahari, in public, slave girls wear a haik, (the heat, the sun..). Only the bells they wear identify them as slaves. But in the general rules, FW can bare their face, the veil is not a mandatory.. Seriously, in the Tahari...? See, I'm all in favor for a dress code OOCly enforced, but the same BTB standards should be applied for all roles, no?

And there, we have a nice BTB scene, with two unveiled FW (one is obviously of the green caste), who sit in a public space (cafe, bakery...?) and beside them (serving? Not sure, her tag said she was the Sultan's pleasure slave), a topless, pierced breasts slave girl, kneeling in nadu.... (Sultan? Not a big deal, but why not pasha, the title used in Tribesmen...?)

I bumped heads with the owner/founder in the past, but I respected him for having the wherewithal to put his money where his mouth is, day in and day out for years. No one sim is going to have the perfect setup or agree with everyone. But you know what is good for roleplayers? Consistency and reliability. Tor has been around for a long time and continues to drive on without folding due to drama, short attention spans, shallow pockets, and fad-seeking players.

I respect that. Hell, I can admire that.

This is their recruiting thread. The least anyone can do is abide by the common rules of etiquette that our mothers taught us, if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. I call shame on those that shit-talk on Tor, especially since they're rebuilding, reinventing, and recruiting after the loss of their founder. Most importantly those of you that did so are picking on an application. Did you actually go there to try and roleplay? I have. It may not have been my preferred tastes, but I *went* there and I gave them a chance. I still visit sometimes even.

If you haven't played there, haven't explored their new build, and haven't actually given them a chance,and yet you're talking smack, then you're part of the reason SL Gor is shrinking and has the negative reputation that it does.

Tor has been around for years, yes. Before the change of owner, it was even worse, slave players could be disciplined if they removed their collar off sim and the slave form required RL infos. The rules were 100% lifestyle.

What is good for role players? A place where they will be treated like role players, where there is no difference of OOC treatment and rules following the role you play.

It doesn't matter how long a Gor sim stays on the grid. I prefer a short life sim with decent rules than a long life sim which continues to mix IC and OOC year after year. Because I know that in the second, I will find just some inconsistent, mundane and boring RP.

And yes, I visited, I guess it was obvious in my previous post.

Part of the reason why Gor has this bad reputation (and it has been debated a few times on this forum) is because of the IC/OOC mixing, the lack of respect of the RP etiquette, the common ignorance of some RP tools (like the NPCs).

Tor has always been a lifestyler sim. What is the issue? At least the rules always pointed that fact out and people didn't spend time on the sim, only to find out there are extra rules for the kajira players hidden in the "kennel." I never had any head bumps with Fredrick. I talked to him in ims before as he was a friend of a friend. I just never role played on his sim. Never tried to have him change his rules just for me either. It was sad to hear of his passing. May he rest in peace.

The only thing I can think of is that this is the "General RP Discussions" forum. So not really the right place for advertising your not-a-role-play-sim.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Fair point. I suppose we will have to send some undercover agents to see which Sims can be deemed role play Sims and which ones should be removed. There will have to be a criteria set though. What is and is not role play is subject to individual perception. That is why the SL gor community suffers to begin with. For example, Jacqui might consider herself to be a lifestyler who follows such rules but if she types up emotes of giving someone a bath is it role play or something else? I vote Sasi to be the undercover agent to get these forums cleaned up. They are piling up with lots of activity after all.