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"Appreciation is a wonderful thing. It makes what is excellent in others belong to us as well." - Voltaire"Everyone's values are defined by what they will tolerate when it is done to others." - William Greider

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Quinn made a veiled reference to JOB last night versus Vogel's brand of basketball. At some point in the game Quinn mentioned we had our 3 point shooters shooting the 3 (pretty sure he also said that's how it should be but I might've been just thinking that awfully loudly!)... He then said something about if you have a coach that's a big believer in the 3 point shot he'll tend to want everyone shooting the 3. ...Then he said (paraphrased) Vogel doesn't believe in that.

That's been my one fear with Vogel that deep down he bought into that "you can't score if you don't shoot, everybody spread the floor, put up the 3!" offense and so it was only a matter of time before he morphed us back there. I've seen no signs that would be the case and hearing Quinn say that isn't something he (Vogel) believes in makes me feel even better about it.

Nuntius was right. I was wrong. Frank Vogel has retained his job.

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"A player who makes a team great is more valuable than a great player. Losing yourself in the group, for the good of the group, that’s teamwork."

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Some teams send two bigs to the offensive glass - some of the best coaches of all time, such as Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Sloan tend to do this. But some other all time great coaches only send 1 big to the offensive board. Popovich, Pat Riley, JVG.

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Some teams send two bigs to the offensive glass - some of the best coaches of all time, such as Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Sloan tend to do this. But some other all time great coaches only send 1 big to the offensive board. Popovich, Pat Riley, JVG.

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..

Yeah, the coaches that send no bigs to the paint are the true legends. Haters gonna hate.

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Some teams send two bigs to the offensive glass - some of the best coaches of all time, such as Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, and Sloan tend to do this. But some other all time great coaches only send 1 big to the offensive board. Popovich, Pat Riley, JVG.

Just different styles

Obviously I am over simplifying the approach to Make my point

Um, when did Riley do this when he was with the Lakers? Both Rambis & Jabbar would go after offensive rebounds. Same thing back when he had Lansburger & Chones with Jabbar.

The Knicks were a little more tricky because he still sent two guys to the glass but Mason was as big as any power forward in the NBA and while Charles Smith was as tall as any he wasn't as strong.

Ewing would go if he was in the post but he did go back on defense most of the time.

I think Riley actually flooded the boards myself, but that's just me.

Now Carlisle on the other hand would drive me crazy because he would only leave one big to go after the glass.

Now to Frank, whatever it is he is doing I like it. In fact I like almost every single thing about how he is going at the team. From player management to in game stratgy. I'm sure I'll find fault somewhere down the road but right now he is doing everything the right way as far as I'm concerned.

Basketball isn't played with computers, spreadsheets, and simulations. ChicagoJ 4/21/13

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Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

JOB are you listening? It's a lot easier to make a put back or a layup than it is to hit a 20 ft. jumpshot. Plus it's a lot easier to draw the foul. Hopefully the whole team gets inside and paint ingrained in their vocabulary this year as opposed to outside and chuck. We have a lot of guys on this roster now that can drive the basket.

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Quinn made a veiled reference to JOB last night versus Vogel's brand of basketball. At some point in the game Quinn mentioned we had our 3 point shooters shooting the 3 (pretty sure he also said that's how it should be but I might've been just thinking that awfully loudly!)... He then said something about if you have a coach that's a big believer in the 3 point shot he'll tend to want everyone shooting the 3. ...Then he said (paraphrased) Vogel doesn't believe in that.....

Quinn also mentioned Josh specifically in talking about that. In Quinn's opinion, Josh should not have been made to shoot the three. I agree.

And some are searching so hard for something to complain about that they are still stuck in the past. It got old last season and for some reason the JOB haters (yeah i said it) are highjacking threads this season. Try talking about something relevant to the present/future. Its the same damn people regurgitating the same vague garbage..

It is relevant because we are discussing differing strategies. So, including the different strategies of the two most recent Pacer coaches seems to be fitting.

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Um, when did Riley do this when he was with the Lakers? Both Rambis & Jabbar would go after offensive rebounds. Same thing back when he had Lansburger & Chones with Jabbar.

The Knicks were a little more tricky because he still sent two guys to the glass but Mason was as big as any power forward in the NBA and while Charles Smith was as tall as any he wasn't as strong.

Ewing would go if he was in the post but he did go back on defense most of the time.

I think Riley actually flooded the boards myself, but that's just me.

Now Carlisle on the other hand would drive me crazy because he would only leave one big to go after the glass.

Now to Frank, whatever it is he is doing I like it. In fact I like almost every single thing about how he is going at the team. From player management to in game stratgy. I'm sure I'll find fault somewhere down the road but right now he is doing everything the right way as far as I'm concerned.

My point was just to suggest that different coaches have different approaches and there are advantages and disadvantages to each approach.

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

Quinn also mentioned Josh specifically in talking about that. In Quinn's opinion, Josh should not have been made to shoot the three. I agree.

It is relevant because we are discussing differing strategies. So, including the different strategies of the two most recent Pacer coaches seems to be fitting.

And I think with Josh, he would have been a positive force in offensive rebounding because he is agile, quick, and has the hops. It was good to have him develop his shot more, but I would have prefered he work on his 10-12 footer before going to the outside. It would have done so much more for him as a player at that point in his career.

I love the way this team offense and defense is being catered to our strengths and weaknesses. Vogel has a long season to endure before making any full on judgments, but up to this point, you have to like what he is doing strategically. Our guards are making cuts that are much more effective off of the bigs and we are getting Granger involved more appropriately in the offense, which helps him be a more concerted defender. I just love that Vogel has preached defense, which JOB did as well, but Vogel actually has an offense designed to give us better possessions, which keeps us from having to make as many defensive stops, IMO. I get the concepts that JOB utilized and they are important to the game, such as spreading the floor and getting guys back in transition defense. Vogel is doing those things without sacrificing our front court presence and defensive priority.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."

Re: Vogel designed the offense to get our bigs offensive rebounds

I've always felt that crashing the boards would help this team since we don't really have shooters on the floor.

Consistently winning the battle of the boards (especially on the O-glass) and hitting FTs are going to win us a lot of games. We can't try to rely on outshouting our opponents.

Good point. The Heat have not shot a three pointer yet this year. They are too busy attacking the glass offensively and defensively. We need to get to the rim a whole hell of a lot more than we ever did under JOB. We also need to control the boards, which to me is the single best thing we could do to be competitive this year. If we can be a top rebounding team, I think that will take so much pressure off of the other phases of the game. Rebounding is about hustle. Effort will win us half of our games.

"Your course, your path, is not going to be like mine," West says. "Everybody is not called to be a multimillionaire. Everybody's not called to be the president. Whatever your best work is, you do it. Do it well. … You cease your own greatness when you aspire to be someone else."