I know this was posted in an earlier thread, but nobody talked about this quote from Royce.

From the SouthTown:

"If the deadline passes and I'm still here, that's going to be a rough two months."

It was that kind of attitude that rubbed his teammates wrong last season, leading one to label the veteran shortstop "Clayton Island" because of his inability to be accountable and accept responsibility.

Last week, a source in the Sox organization said the team "couldn't give Clayton away." Considering the Sox shipped out second baseman Ray Durham for an average pitching prospect last week, there can be little doubt that teams aren't making a push to land Clayton.

What's left of the $4.5 million contract Clayton is carrying this season is one reason why the Sox can't unload him. But his reputation as a clubhouse cancer carries even more of a burden. The word has been out on Clayton for years, and it seems like the Sox were the last to know.

LongDistanceFan

07-31-2002, 10:12 AM

where are the backers of clayton now? try to justify this about how clubhouse chemistry is not important. arghhh :angry:

ChiWhiteS0XFan

07-31-2002, 10:30 AM

dont think he should have said it, but its true...he pretty much knows if they dont trade him hes gone after the season anyway...and im sure he knows most of the sox fans arnt supporting him....myself..im a royce fan and would like to see him stay in a sox uniform just for his defense.

duke of dorwood

07-31-2002, 11:28 AM

There's no "defense" for that big mouth and the poison that comes out of it. He has not done enough for this team that it has to put up with statements like that. and is fortunate he wasnt on the bench both last year and this year.

FarmerAndy

07-31-2002, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by duke of dorwood
There's no "defense" for that big mouth and the poison that comes out of it. He has not done enough for this team that it has to put up with statements like that. and is fortunate he wasnt on the bench both last year and this year.

I don't care what Clayton says. He's a jerk and everybody knows it. But I'd still rather have him at shortstop than Valentin any day of the week.

There are always going to be players with bad attitudes. I just want to win. I could care less about how happy everybody is in clubhouse, or whether Jose can walk on water. Everybody's problem with Clayton stems from this silly love affair that most Sox fans have with Jose Valentin. I like Jose. He's a good guy and I appreciate what he's done for this team. But this isn't 2000 anymore, so get over it. I think Valentin can be a great utility guy, but he's not an everyday shortstop.

Ask any of our young pitchers who they'd rather have playing SS behind them. I'll betcha a majority of them would take Clayton. After seeing Joe Crede and Willie Harris play some great defense last night, the idea of a Crede, Clayton, Harris, Konerko infield sounds really good to me. For the first time in a real long time, the White Sox could have a really good defensive infield.

I won't ever defend the stupid things that Clayton might say, but I really don't care either. Half of those guys are idiots. I just want the best team on the field.

duke of dorwood

07-31-2002, 12:10 PM

We won with Valentin at short.

Randar68

07-31-2002, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by FarmerAndy
I won't ever defend the stupid things that Clayton might say, but I really don't care either. Half of those guys are idiots. I just want the best team on the field.

So when the talent is out there, and they don't get along and play like they don't care (ie. 2002), then what do you do?

In 2000, just about every pitcher out there loved to have Jose in the field, because even if he made an error, he would come back nd make up for it with the bat.

FarmerAndy

07-31-2002, 12:25 PM

2000 was 2 years ago.

Hell, let's bring back Julio Cruz.

Randar68

07-31-2002, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by FarmerAndy
2000 was 2 years ago.

Hell, let's bring back Julio Cruz.

great logic...

BLA!

hold2dibber

07-31-2002, 12:35 PM

The truth of the matter is, we don't have a perfect solution at SS. Jose is a good clubhouse guy who plays hard every day, has some power and is a great clutch hitter. But he makes lots of errors on routine plays, strikes out too much, and gets on base at a pitiful clip. Clayton is a clubhouse cancer, from all accounts, has somewhat limited range and an average arm, and can't hit, but makes all the routine plays look easy. Given the two, I choose Jose because, more than anything, he plays hard and is a good leader. But I would greatly prefer a smooth fielding shortstop that can run, bunt, and gets on base on a semi-regular basis. Those guys are hard to come by. Jose is signed for another year, though - so he's going to be the guy.

Can one of the minor league guys (Kermit, Randar, Daver, etc.) tell me whether Harris is in fact a defensive upgrade over Ray? I know he made a great play last night, but I have no sense for whether he is an above-average defender.

Daver

07-31-2002, 12:40 PM

Originally posted by hold2dibber
The truth of the matter is, we don't have a perfect solution at SS. Jose is a good clubhouse guy who plays hard every day, has some power and is a great clutch hitter. But he makes lots of errors on routine plays, strikes out too much, and gets on base at a pitiful clip. Clayton is a clubhouse cancer, from all accounts, has somewhat limited range and an average arm, and can't hit, but makes all the routine plays look easy. Given the two, I choose Jose because, more than anything, he plays hard and is a good leader. But I would greatly prefer a smooth fielding shortstop that can run, bunt, and gets on base on a semi-regular basis. Those guys are hard to come by. Jose is signed for another year, though - so he's going to be the guy.

Can one of the minor league guys (Kermit, Randar, Daver, etc.) tell me whether Harris is in fact a defensive upgrade over Ray? I know he made a great play last night, but I have no sense for whether he is an above-average defender.

He is still learning the position,but he will have better range than Durham ever had.

voodoochile

07-31-2002, 12:44 PM

Here we go again... Looks like the other threads were just the warmups, this one has all the markings of being a 10 page Manos V Choice debate...

Have at it guys, this topic isn't dead yet...

Count me out though, I am not concerned with this year anymore and Choice will NOT be playing for our team next year, no way, no how, uh-uh. So you FOB can say whatever you want, I am not playing...

Iwritecode

07-31-2002, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
Here we go again... Looks like the other threads were just the warmups, this one has all the markings of being a 10 page Manos V Choice debate...

Have at it guys, this topic isn't dead yet...

Count me out though, I am not concerned with this year anymore and Choice will NOT be playing for our team next year, no way, no how, uh-uh. So you FOB can say whatever you want, I am not playing...

I agree. I'll sit back and watch the carnage from a distance this time.

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by FarmerAndy
2000 was 2 years ago.

Hell, let's bring back Julio Cruz.

Go get 'em, Andy. Charge through those rice patties! Clinch your teeth and empty that clip on your M16! For you, glory lies on the far end of this Manos/Choice debate.

The rest of us are grizzled veterans. We are going to sit back and laugh our asses off watching you get filled with VC lead.

Just keep mouthing off. You're going to step onto so many mines, your mother won't recognize you by the time they ship home your body bag. :cool:

Just remember--the deeper into this quagmire you venture, the more your chance for survival is risked. NOBODY has emerged unbloodied in this sector.

Now go for it--if you still have the guts.

:gulp:

FarmerAndy

07-31-2002, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

Go get 'em, Andy. Charge through those rice patties! Clinch your teeth and empty that clip on your M16! For you, glory lies on the far end of this Manos/Choice debate.

The rest of us are grizzled veterans. We are going to sit back and laugh our asses off watching you get filled with VC lead.

Just keep mouthing off. You're going to step onto so many mines, your mother won't recognize you by the time they ship home your body bag. :cool:

Just remember--the deeper into this quagmire you venture, the more your chance for survival is risked. NOBODY has emerged unbloodied in this sector.

Now go for it--if you still have the guts.

:gulp:

Hey George. Were you the narrator of the 'Chicago White Sox: A Visual History' video that came out in the mid 80's? I remember a bearded guy talking about Sox fans fighting in a war, and charging a hill trying to take some pill box. I had no clue what the guy was talking about, but your post reminded me of him. :smile:

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by FarmerAndy
Hey George. Were you the narrator of the 'Chicago White Sox: A Visual History' video that came out in the mid 80's? I remember a bearded guy talking about Sox fans fighting in a war, and charging a hill trying to take some pill box. I had no clue what the guy was talking about, but your post reminded me of him. :smile:

That was Jean Shepherd. He was a comedian and the producer (?) of the film "A Christmas Sory". He died a few years ago. Life-long Sox Fan from Indiana, too.

BTW, that video is hands-down the best Sox video ever made. It's 15 years old and really hard to find, but I recommend it highly.

Yes, I admit I love his analogy of Sox Fans to battle-hardened soldiers assigned a suicide mission.

Oh, how true. Oh, how painfully true...

:)

Iguana775

07-31-2002, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by duke of dorwood
We won with Valentin at short.

and that is the ONLY thing that matters.

FarmerAndy

07-31-2002, 02:11 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

That was Jean Shepherd. He was a comedian and the producer (?) of the film "A Christmas Sory". He died a few years ago. Life-long Sox Fan from Indiana, too.

BTW, that video is hands-down the best Sox video ever made. It's 15 years old and really hard to find, but I recommend it highly.

Yes, I admit I love his analogy of Sox Fans to battle-hardened soldiers assigned a suicide mission.

Oh, how true. Oh, how painfully true...

:)

That is a great video. I wonder why they don't make videos like that anymore. It would be cool if they would make an updated version that ran throught the 90's.

Either way, I need to hook-up 2 VCR's and make a copy of that. I'm always afraid to watch it, because I know if I wear it out, I won't be able to find another one.

WinningUgly!

07-31-2002, 02:12 PM

Originally posted by voodoochile
Here we go again... Looks like the other threads were just the warmups, this one has all the markings of being a 10 page Manos V Choice debate...

Originally posted by FarmerAndy
That is a great video. I wonder why they don't make videos like that anymore. It would be cool if they would make an updated version that ran throught the 90's.

Either way, I need to hook-up 2 VCR's and make a copy of that. I'm always afraid to watch it, because I know if I wear it out, I won't be able to find another one.

I get my "Sox fix" watching it once or twice during the winter. :smile:

When Rich Samuels came to my home to get footage for the lead-in piece preceding Jerry Manuel's interview on Chicago Tonight (November, '00), they taped the "'59 Go-Go White Sox" bit straight off my copy of that tape, playing on my crappy 25" Philips TV.

Talk about low-tech...

:)

Paulwny

07-31-2002, 02:25 PM

I have the 59 series on a BETA tape, anyone with a machine that still works?

PaleHoseGeorge

07-31-2002, 02:27 PM

Originally posted by Paulwny
I have the 59 series on a BETA tape, anyone with a machine that still works?

*****! You truly are a Sox Fan!!!

I guess Paul's predicament in W. NY pretty much sums up the plight of Sox Fans everywhere.

:)

WinningUgly!

07-31-2002, 02:29 PM

Originally posted by Paulwny
I have the 59 series on a BETA tape, anyone with a machine that still works?

I have an uncle that does. The guy still thinks BETA will make a comeback. :D:

Paulwny

07-31-2002, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by PaleHoseGeorge

*****! You truly are a Sox Fan!!!

:)

Did you doubt I really was ?

Paulwny

07-31-2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by WinningUgly!

I have an uncle that does. The guy still thinks BETA will make a comeback. :D:

Only if they find that VHS machines cause cancer.

Daver

07-31-2002, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by Paulwny
I have the 59 series on a BETA tape, anyone with a machine that still works?

Can't help you with the Beta Paul,but I do have a working 8 track player. :redneck

Paulwny

07-31-2002, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by daver

Can't help you with the Beta Paul,but I do have a working 8 track player. :redneck