Comments on: Do You Want Advice or Do You Want Validation?http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/
Understand Men. Find Love.Fri, 09 Dec 2016 21:38:30 +0000hourly1https://wordpress.org/?v=4.6.1By: Virgilio Mendozahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-6214931
Sun, 27 Sep 2015 22:58:41 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-6214931Got 2 more calls on my answering machine today. No doubt it is to talk about the same friend over again. I do not wish to listen to the same negative diatribe over and over again. Of course, I did not pick up and answer the telephone. That will not stop because she does not respect boundaries. Maybe, she will eventually move to something else, when she finally gets tired of calling and me not answering my telephone.
]]>By: Virgilio Mendozahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-6214457
Sun, 27 Sep 2015 19:08:34 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-6214457As a guy, I have this problem with a lady friend who continues to call me about girl friends who have slighted her in this way or the other. The problem is it never ends. She could be babbling on the phone for like 3-4 hours and I am supposed to just listen the whole time. In addition, the following days, she is venting about the same problems again ad nauseum. I have suggested she cut those friends off for her sanity and for her to leave me alone. I have decided to cut the number of calls I take from her. I am a positive person but, all these negativity is utter nonsense!
]]>By: Jeremyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-1770748
Thu, 22 May 2014 17:11:50 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-1770748I know this is an old thread, but I thought I’d make a comment. I, too, have been repeatedly frustrated by this issue when my wife wanted to vent and I tried to offer advice – leading to anger and resentment on her part, and confusion on my part. There’s a fantastic short film on this called “It’s not about the nail” – google it and watch it if you want a great laugh.

I had 2 comments: First is that, according to neurochemical studies, women’s and men’s brains respond differently to conversation. Women’s brains release oxytocin when having emotional conversations with friends – this hormone leads to feelings of bonding and closeness. Men’s brains do NOT release oxytocin upon emotional conversation – hence our confusion about why women love to talk so much, and women’s confusion of why men don’t, generally, like to talk so much. Women, in general, feel bonded due to emotional conversation, men do NOT (in fact, we may feel somewhat nonplussed/repelled by it, in some cases).

2) If you are a fan of the MBTI system (as I am), you will acknowledge that being a “problem solver” versus an “emotional venter” is not due to gender, but rather due to propensity for being primarily a “thinker” vs primarily a “feeler” – not due to introversion/extroversion, as suggested by some previous posters. For those who are unfamiliar with the system, being a “thinker” does not mean that one does not feel, nor does being a “feeler” mean that one does not think. It just means which process tends to dominate our decision-making process most of the time. Now, it just so happens that, statistically, more women are primarily “feelers” and more men are primarily “thinkers” – though the reverse can also be true. Hence there is no need for the offence shown by some of the posters here that “not all women are like that.” Of course they aren’t. But most are. Not because they are women, but because their personality type is “feeler”.
To summarize, a woman whose personality is a “feeler” will likely need to vent emotionally, both due to her personality and due to her enjoyment of venting from oxytocin release. A man who is primarily a “thinker” will hate being on the end of that venting because he has no innate “feel” for emotional conversation, nor does he feel bonded afterward (lack of oxytocin).

Thus, the best advice I can give women who need to vent is to call your female friends – they will be better listeners and will enjoy the conversation more (unless they are “thinkers”). Or maybe find a man who is a “Feeler” – though he is unlikely to be the alpha male most women are attracted to. If you go to a man who is a “thinker” he will try to offer you a solution, because he will think that that is why you are coming to him, and because, to him, ti is the logical thing to do. And who knows, maybe it might be a good idea to listen – perhaps a fresh perspective on the matter might be useful. Again, check out “It’s not about the nail.”
Sorry for the long post on an old topic.
]]>By: Guest01http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-1232583
Tue, 04 Feb 2014 01:38:28 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-1232583@Magnolia50 I have to admit, if someone is saying they don’t need advice MEANWHILE having the same “can’t work with this person/this relationship botehrs me” vent on a weekly basis they DO need advice. To simply stay quiet it almost as bad as WATCHING someone drive off a cliff and they’re telling you not to tell them that a cliff is coming up.
]]>By: Luluhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-1206618
Fri, 17 Jan 2014 15:32:35 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-1206618I am a woman who is trying to learn how to support girlfriends when they want to vent. I honestly don’t have the brain power to wrap my mind around all of this yet, as I’ve just set on the goal of living more aware, but I feel whether someone wants to vent or has expectations of others to “cater” to them is a bigger issue in the USA (lived here since I was 7) than in China, where I grew up and often visit. Though Chinese women have become more self-centered in recent generations.
There must be an interaction between genetics and upbringing, but I see people as drains, self-sustaining springs, or fountains. Often fountains and drains can be mistaken for each other. I hate to unload my problems on others and my husband is the same way. We’re able to find common ground and I have female friends urging me to become more nurturing or so on…and frankly, while I do value my friends and wonder if something is “wrong” with me, I am sick of the epidemic of emotionally draining women that are widely accepted and supported in mainstream culture, and believe that the rest of society exists to validate them. I try to remember I am allowed to be the way I am, and avoid these people, though they’re a large chunk of the population, in platonic and romantic relationships like the plague.
]]>By: blogsterhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/#comment-1188099
Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:38:03 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-1188099Standard female response men have heard for eons whenever pointing out a generally consistent trend in female behaviour – “NAWALT!”. Face it, the majority of women consistently aren’t solutions oriented. Otherwise they would have made significant contributions to major inventions of the 21st century.
]]>By: blogsterhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/#comment-1188094
Sat, 11 Jan 2014 08:35:50 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-1188094Your worst case scenario is absurd due to its extremely low probability of occurrence with anyone that has remotely developed sensory faculties. The issue always has been conceptual and about power – the female assumption that the female perspective is central and default. That men must always acknowledge and defer to it. Not one of equality.
]]>By: Nissahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-779521
Tue, 16 Apr 2013 19:23:33 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-779521Great article, Evan. I am not in a relationship, but I do have this issue with my Dad. When I tell him about my day, issue etc he will say things like “what you should do is….” or “you need to…”. Please note: this occurs even when I am merely giving facts about what someone has done (my lawyer filed this document and it will be 6 weeks before my court date,etc). This makes my eyes bug out as I bite hard on my tongue to keep from commenting.
Now, since this is my Dad, it seems to me that perhaps he has not yet realized that I’ve grown up and am a competent person. For me, there are four issues here. One, his ideas about how to solve things are radically different than mine. Two, when I provide information, I almost always have already decided what I need to do or am willing to do, but am expressing my discomfort with the situation. I genuinely do not want feedback. Three, his suggestions almost always stress me out and make me feel worse. Four, when I am providing facts, I am not always in the right place to help him process his emotional response to those events.
Now, my Dad has expressed that he is just trying to help, that it always makes him feel better when someone gives him suggestions. He didn’t know how to know when I needed feedback. My response was “Please don’t provide suggestions unless you get a direct request for it, such as: what is your opinion, what do you think, what would you do?”. I tried to make it clear when I would welcome input and when I would not. To be fair, when he discusses his life, I also ask him “Do you want input on that?” or “Are you looking for a suggestion?” before offering my thoughts. My first assumption is that he knows best what is right for him.
I also gave him specific feedback that he could offer that I would receive as helpful, such as saying “gosh, un-huh, wow, that’s big, what are you going to do?” This helps me receive his commentary without feeling judged or that he believes I am not competent to handle the situation.
When I do share my emotions about a situation with my Dad I try to specify “I’m just venting, I don’t need you to fix this”, or even “I already have a solution, Dad, I’m just not ready to do it yet, I’m still too angry/sad/riled up”. Part of this is a belief I have that if I have an emotion, I don’t have to do anything about it. Just saying “I’m angry!” often is enough to move me past that emotion.
However, I almost always end with a comment of “Thanks for listening; that really helped” or “when you listen it really makes me feel supported, and I appreciate that”. I try hard to be clear about what I’m looking for and to provide the same to him.
What is good about this is that (in spite of the irritation factor) it is a process where we both try to respect what the other needs and wants. We both listen to what the other says and try to accomodate that person’s preferred mode of conversation. This has genuinely helped us communicate better and made the relationship more enjoyable.

]]>By: Greghttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-214352
Wed, 07 Dec 2011 14:44:57 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-214352The whole point of the post is that men and women tend to communicate differently. Understanding that men and women have different communication styles helps relationships. He’s not saying one way is better than the other.
Leaving the seat up is not a character flaw. Many men have gone their entire lives without having to even think about such a thing. Its a minor thing. Women do annoying things that men have to deal with. I can’t make my wife stop liking trash reality TV programs and she can’t make me stop liking football. Acceptance is about being able to overlook minor things that don’t matter, and understand that men and women are different.
]]>By: Ronhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-214056
Wed, 07 Dec 2011 02:46:52 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-214056A funny little history story although you don’t have to post it.

Cato (of Roman times) said that we men rule the world and then we come home and women rule us.

Great blog and comments.

]]>By: Kat Wilderhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60837
Wed, 24 Mar 2010 17:22:10 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60837Let’s face it, men and women are different doh and we react differently.
Women do need to understand that men are fixers, and men do need to understand that women want to be heard, and not always get advice (or, be “fixed.”)
I wish both sexes could appreciate those differences and learn how to work with them. And that means each couple should at some point have a conversation about what he/she wants his/her partner to do when venting, crying, etc.
Then, we should respect that (and be forgiven if we sometimes slip into old patterns). This is not rocket science; it’s communication (uh, which is often like rocket science!)
And, honestly, we women have trouble advising each other, too.
]]>By: anettehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60668
Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:49:38 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60668@70 I don’t know how you got all that from Evan’s comments.

I did get the impression from Evans comments, that he was saying a little “too much” that women should curb their need for validation.

The Post title, say’s it all. Yes, we need validation.

Find the validation you are able to handle as a man, and find a woman that only requires that much.

Women will alway’s need it, just like men will in their stuff too 🙂 And it won’t alway’s make sense.

]]>By: anettehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60666
Tue, 23 Mar 2010 11:28:30 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60666Okay before I read everything else, TY for those that did read my wall of text. God that was aweful!! hahaha. I appreciate you listening.

Toilet thing. He can leave it up if he wants. I’m just going to ask him to put it down. It’s a thing. It’s like saying I hate putting gas in the car. It’s a thing. I HATE PUTTING GAS IN THE CAR!! hahaha.

Not a big thing, he doesn’t have to do it, but…it’s really nice when he does, and I notice it. I’m a bit forgetful by nature and am worrying about other complicated stuff. Hitting the poop water(no seat), or hitting the “ding ding ding” no gas meter(my constant issue) sucks.

But in terms of equality, yes it should be “up” as much as “down”.

No reason either way. Weird huh? What is a sheila/bloke thing? It something you recognize, don’t understand and do, because it’s kinda sweet 🙂 It’s a rule we know 😛

NOWHERE do I say to put up with bad behavior. Everywhere on this site, I tell women to leave men who don’t call, don’t commit, only want sex, don’t follow through on dates, don’t treat you well, etc.

EVERYWHERE I tell you to accept OTHER things that are NORMAL among GOOD men. That may include him being a flirt, it may include him being a workaholic, it may include him working on a different relationship timetable, it may even include him forgetting the way you like your toilet seat.

Choose your battles, Betty. But let’s get it straight: I’m an advocate for women who want to know how to handle men. Good men. Like me. Like my male readers. So for you to conflate clueless and inconsiderate bathroom behavior with a man who only calls you once a week…or doesn’t propose after 4 years… well, those are two entirely different stories.

I hope you can agree – and agree with everything else I’ve offered today. I am FOR you, not against you. And, as you can tell, it pains me that you can’t see this.

Off to coach more women like you…

Evan

]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60610
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:08:18 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60610@69: I’m not making men the enemy. I’m acknowledging that some men are the enemy, as are some women. You keep telling women that they have to accept specific things about men. They do not. Then you follow it up with a threat that if they don’t they won’t find a man to love them. Again, false. There are so many men who do not partake of what many of consider “typical male” behavior. These are the men I know and love. They also happen to be men who consider leaving a toilet seat up after peeing to be very crude behavior and would be embarrassed if they did it, even by mistake. Just as a counter-example.
]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60608
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 21:00:57 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60608@67: The problem with your argument is that you are suggesting that women accept traditional roles that we have fought long and hard to break free of and that most of us are happy to see go. (In your example, the traditional female strictures would to be pleasing physically on his terms, take on household chores that might just as easily be shared, put the relationship with him above her other sustaining relationships, those that predate her relationship with him and might outlast it.) In other words, you’re making a case for female dependence on men without showing at all how it goes the other way. In the example you give you’re asking her to become subservient to him and give up her claims in the world–claims she might need were the relationship to go south. And you’re adding a threat–if she doesn’t do these subservient things, the relationship will definitely go south because she isn’t being accepting (read “compliant”) enough. To add insult to injury, she doesn’t even have a say in how the household is to be run (he still gets the seat up!).

This is not a compelling scenario for coupledom. Love is also about knowing what you won’t accept and having the guts to soldier on, being true to yourself, and finding the people of your tribe–men and women both. Maybe you weren’t compliant enough and had to learn that “acceptance” lesson, and that’s why this message keeps cropping up here, but for a lot of us gals we’ve accepted way too much bad male behavior. We did change in response to that. But it wasn’t to become more tolerant of b.s.

]]>By: Evan Marc Katzhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60607
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:57:01 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60607“Whom the status quo benefits?” Huh? We’re all in this TOGETHER. There’s no happy relationships unless both women AND men are on board with acceptance.

Trust me: for most of my life, I had a series of relationships with women who DIDN’T accept me. My revelation was in discovering that there was a woman who WOULD accept me. I married her and am never letting her go. It’s exhausting being with someone who wants you to change all the time, wouldn’t you agree?

So please, stop making men to be the enemy here. If men were asking me questions about how to change women, they’d get the same reality check. I’m sincerely sorry if you don’t like what I’m saying, but really, give the negativity a rest. This is my blog. I really don’t need to defend myself, but I think it’s important that you understand that the message is for EVERYONE, not just women.

]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60606
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:46:40 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60606@62: This is the ‘ole “this is the way it is, so it must be the way it always was and always will be” argument so favored by those whom the status quo benefits. Ha!!! 🙂
]]>By: Evan Marc Katzhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60602
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:34:39 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60602Imagine you’re dating a man who wants you to lose 20lbs. Or stop seeing your family so much. Or make more money, but work fewer hours, so you could make him dinner. How would you feel about this man who expected you to change? Exactly. Not very good.

Flip that over. That’s what I mean about acceptance. If you want to be loved, unconditionally, for who you are, without being micromanaged and changed, then you need to do the same for a man. If you don’t because you feel that acceptance is like “twisting yourself into a pretzel”, then you might have a hard time with this dating thing.

Love is about acceptance, not about change. Get that, and you’ll find love, sooner rather than later.

Good luck.

]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60601
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:34:34 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60601@65: The women I know drive their own cars. And own the bathrooms that the men are peeing in. And also clean them. Given all that, you put the seat down when you are through. Thanks for your cooperation with the careful, thoughtful management of a human life.
]]>By: Joehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60600
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:23:42 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60600Two points:

Sometimes people get angry when their solutions are not followed because you have just wasted their time by describing your problem and asking for their solution.

For a guy, the default position for the toilet set is whatever it is for his use. Most guys will leave the seat down when they’re done with #2, and leave it up when they’re done with #1.

If a woman borrows her boyfriend’s car, how often does she return the seat and the mirror positions to the “default” positions of where they were before she drove it?

]]>By: Loriannehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60599
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:18:45 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60599@Betty #60 Word. Couldn’t have said it better myself.
]]>By: Loriannehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60596
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:14:08 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60596As I said, then I’m guilty. Not worth twisting myself into a pretzel for a man who expects me to accept him as is. P.S. Lots of things that “couldn’t be changed” have been. It just took sufficient resistance against the status quo to do it. Just ask anybody involved with the Tea Party.
]]>By: Evan Marc Katzhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60593
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 20:02:58 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60593It’s unrealistic.

You. Can’t. Change. Men.

You can change YOURSELF. Only MEN can change men.

]]>By: Loriannehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-3/#comment-60589
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:45:26 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60589@Evan Marc Katz — not shooting the messenger at all. And I’m not even opposed to change, but I’m not going to be the one making all the sacrifices and compromises just for the sake of maintaining a relationship. If I have to change, my man has to change too, that’s all I’m saying. If that’s unrealistic then I’m guilty.
]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60588
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:20:58 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60588Lorianne@57: Here is why a guy who leaves the seat up is a red flag. In all areas of our lives there are objects that are designed to fulfill a function. When they are not in use they are returned to their non-use placement (what you call the “default position”). That is why we close cabinets and drawers, put lids back on jars, shut the trunks of our cars, and lower the hood of the grill after we’ve turned it off. If a guy observes all of these unspoken rules about orderliness but then chooses to ignore the rule of orderliness in the bathroom, and further, gives a woman grief when she expresses displeasure about it, asserting the primacy of his peeing behavior, he is sending a big F.U. to his female partner. And it is an F.U. because she is female. Does not bode well for the rest of the relationship if he is the kind of guy who needs to mark his territory. This same type of thing will crop up again and again.

If, however, he observes no rules of orderliness, then he is just a bit of a pig and needs remedial work across the board.

Neither situation is good. We women do not want to be your de facto mothers, forced to “manage” your belligerence or lack of grown-up hygiene. If you force us to do so you will not get laid. No woman wants to sleep with a child (see annette@32).

]]>By: Evan Marc Katzhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60586
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 18:03:49 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60586@Lorianne And what would you prefer that the tone be? Women can change men? Women should fantasize about a world in which men conform to all of your wishes? Sorry. This is a reality-based blog. I am a reality-based dating coach. The women who are loyal readers are the ones who know that I’m an advocate for YOU. I report true, and sometimes unpleasant, realities about men, and give you guidance about how to better navigate the choppy waters of dating. And for this, you shoot the messenger?

You will be empowered in dating if you listen to the dialogue here. But if you spend your time invested in the unrealistic notion that men should change, then guess what? Nothing in your life will change.

It’s your call. Just know I’m pulling for you every step of the way – and I’m telling you the truth about what men think because I think you deserve to know – not because you’re going to like what I report.

]]>By: Loriannehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60577
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:13:04 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60577@anette and others — yes, that seems to be the tone of this blog. Men are what they are, and women have to not only accept it, but change the way they function if they want to have “successful” relationships. Not much of an incentive to jump into the dating pool, is it?
]]>By: Loriannehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60574
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:53:25 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60574@Hadley Paige — when I encounter a man who insists that the toilet seat has to be UP, that is a giant red flag for ME. The toilet seat should be down, period, unless you specifically NEED it to be up, then it should be returned to its default position. That is all.
]]>By: Loriannehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60572
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:47:10 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60572@Steve If you want a strictly mathematical rationale for leaving the seat down, look at the percentages. Women need to have the toilet seat down 100% of the time. Men need the seat down for whatever percentage of the time they have a bowel movement. That means that for a majority of the designated uses of the toilet, the seat should be down, which means the default position for the toilet seat should also be down. How does that work for you?
]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60556
Mon, 22 Mar 2010 14:50:25 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60556Janeen: Brilliant!!!!
]]>By: Lainehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60451
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 17:22:26 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60451I have been on a dating site for the past year, and every guy I have met for a coffee or a drink on the first meet, has talked about his ex wife, ex girlfriend or other women he is dating or is in love with…..and I am the one nodding my head and listening.

Of course I have never accepted second dates with these men as they came across as being not ready to move on from their past relationships, or in having any interest in finding out about me.

I see their behaviour as venting. Also very boring. I do not think this is necessarily a female behaviour as Evan suggests, but more a state of an Individuals self awareness.

]]>By: Selenahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60421
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:31:28 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60421Sometimes people do get angry when the *solutions* they offer to other’s problems aren’t followed. This isn’t a gender trait either. And sometimes the person who vented/asked for advice doesn’t want to hear the *solutions* offered anyway. I love this quote from writer Erica Jong:

“Advice is what we ask for when we know the answer, but wish we didn’t.”

]]>By: Caseyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60393
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:35:43 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60393Ooops! As soon as I hit submit, I realized when I re-worded the fifth paragraph…I forgot to add back in boyfriends or a husband in the list of men that this is my experience with…they should have been.
]]>By: Caseyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60388
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:19:43 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60388Evan,

I do not know how I went from commenting on my personal experiences with men and the notion that they are problem solvers to making gender-based, personal attacks on all the men of this blog. I did respond to Bob with extreme sarcasm as I felt, justly or unjustly, personally attacked by him.

If my comments about my personal experiences with men were construed to be a personal attack on any men on this blog…then I apologize, as that was not my intent. To the best of my knowledge, information and belief, I do not know any of the men on this blog, so I cannot comment on any of them personally, or speak to whether they are good or bad men.

It was, however, my intent to be a commentary on the men — some really good men and some really bad men — that I know or have known personally, and that when a situation of the type described in your blog post arises, they use the fallback position that they are problem solvers. In my personal experience, it is a cop out.

I’ll give you an example. When I was having trouble deciding what college to complete my undergraduate degree at since I worked full-time during the day and could only go to school at night, I asked the advice of a trusted male mentor, who was also my boss. He advised me to go to the more prestigious college for undergraduate because it would help me get into the graduate program I wanted. I listened to his opinion, considered it and decided it would be best for me to go to the less prestigious school because it had a night program and I could not afford to quit my job and go to the more prestigious college with no night program. When he found out, he became very angry, and in front of our co-workers yelled at me that I was being stupid and I shouldn’t come crying to him when I didn’t get accepted in a graduate program.

This is typical of my personal experience with men (be it a father, brother, uncle, friend, co-work, mentor, etc.) and their offering advice and problem solving skills. It may not be your experience or the experience of anyone else on this blog…and it may not be how you or any man on this blog would have handled the situation…but it is, as I said, typical of what I have personally experienced.

So, you didn’t like the way I stated it. Okay, I get that. It’s your blog and I’m just a guest. Perhaps I could have started out with this story instead. Live and learn.

Casey

Note: For the record, I did go to the school with the night program, and got accepted into the graduate program I wanted without a hitch. But, at the time, his angry outburst made me question myself and my decision.

]]>By: Magnoliahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60384
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:00:06 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60384I love your website. Especially since, at 53 years of age, I’m still trying to figure out the male psyche. 🙂 Totally fusin’
It is true, women want to be “heard”. They don’t want to be fixed, managed, advised or corrected. I can’t speak for all women, but I can tell you that if I want advice I will specifically ask…”What do you *think* about this” or “Will you help me this?” of “I don’t understand what to do, do you? can you fix this?”
In fact, I’m very good with language in general and I know I’ve told my husband of over 11 years now that when I want advice, I will ASK for advice. I promise. To date he doesn’t believe me. 🙁

I

]]>By: Selenahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60381
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 02:18:01 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60381So Hadley, what would think about dating Janeen?
]]>By: Hadley Paigehttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60374
Sun, 21 Mar 2010 00:00:44 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60374<!– @page { margin: 0.79in } P { margin-bottom: 0.08in } –>
RE melissa @ #35
95% of women I know want the toilet seat down and the other 4% are just being nice and holding back from telling you they prefer it; so I guess that leaves you with 1% of datable women who TRULY don’t care.
____________________________________

No Melissa it doesn’t.
I don’t know where you live, but the population women you know are not likely statistically representative of the population women who date. This is a common error I see here. Inductively reasoning that one’s experience is representative.
My experience has been that the last 4 women I have had LTRs with have not made an issue out of the the seat must be down or its fill in the blank here rude, gross, passive aggressive, intended to annoy me, etc, etc, etc. I guess I likely won’t be dating the women you know.
I didn’t say if the women wants the toilet seat down I am out of there. I said it was a red flag. You attribute a completely incorrect quote to me. Let us at least get the facts straight.

]]>By: Selenahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60344
Sat, 20 Mar 2010 19:55:48 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60344Wow Janeen! What an interesting passive-aggressive way to get the point across. Alot more pointed than buying a super thick fuzzy toliet seat cover lol.
]]>By: Janeenhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60333
Sat, 20 Mar 2010 17:52:41 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60333I am not into fighting with things about with my boyfriend. He was a seat-up kinda guy and it bothered me. I told him it bothered me. He gave me the “why does it have to be your way” defense even though I agree with the above that it isn’t “my” way, it’s the polite way. He sort of improved in his habits, but then started to “forget.” So I started leaving my open boxes of tampons and sanitary pads in the bathroom. I also used the bathroom wastebasket for my menstrual trash. And once I “forgot” to flush after changing a tampon. When he got skeeved out I just said that it was easier for me as a woman to have these things handy and that if I weren’t living with him this is how I would do things.

He got it. No problem since. And when I say that I have a problem with something he is more open to listening and talking it out rather than stonewalling change via his behavior.

Critical: “Frankly, I’m a better problem solver than most men and they know it.”

Animosity: “I don’t, and never have, needed a man to solve my problems.”

Condemnation: “Problem with guys is, they don’t want to listen and offer advice most of the time. They want to tell you what to do and if you listen, thank them for their opinion, and then make your own decision which might not be what they told you to do they get mad.”

Thus, Casey, Bob’s observation wasn’t an attack, but an observation based on the evidence you provided in your post. You can defend yourself all you want, but you’ve already hung yourself with your own words. Bob merely said that your arguments (not you) were specious, and that such attacks didn’t serve the intelligent men who read this blog.

I happen to agree with him. So while I encourage you to continue to offer your opinions on this forum, please leave out the personal and gender-based attacks, as evidenced by your previous comments.

Helen said: “The extrovert doesn’t vent necessarily for the purpose of advice. He or she does so to talk the problem out and thereby to better understand what to do about it.”

Interestingly, a persons’ learning style also plays into this (check out learning styles here. Being a kinesthetic learner myself, with a strong verbal component, I learn best by doing or listening/talking ideas through. This means, that although I’m largely introverted, talking/listening/writing for me are means for developing and understanding of ideas.

Perhaps extroverts are more often verbal or kinesthetic learners than introverts.

]]>By: Caseyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60271
Sat, 20 Mar 2010 01:37:06 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60271Evan@39:
“Oh, and please spare us your indignation over this (very valid) stereotype. It’s tired and hackneyed (the indignation, that is). Also, you sound very critical of men. It’s old. Let it go, whatever the source of your animosity toward men is, let it go. The guys on this site don’t deserve your condemnation we’re trying to help present a reasonable male perspective.”
So let me see if I understand this Evan — Bob’s statements quoted at the start of the previous paragraph are not directed at me personally but rather my argument…somehow I misread Bob’s statements that said “you/your” in connection with the comments — that I am indignant, very critical of men, have a lot of animosity towards men, and condemn them — by thinking he was referring to me personally?
Huh! It must have been his use of the personal pronouns that threw me off.
]]>By: Helenhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60237
Fri, 19 Mar 2010 20:15:59 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60237So as not to inadvertently offend any women who read this, I’ll speak just for myself and my girlfriends:

Venting is a form of BONDING.

We love getting together to vent about our days, our lives, our work, partners, families, etc. Sometimes we’ll get direct advice, sometimes we won’t. It doesn’t matter – why? Because, if I can try to boil it down to its essence: the purpose of venting with friends is that you get reassurance that you’re not going crazy – that others have experienced the same thing, or are experiencing the same thing. So you’re all in it together, you’re not struggling alone, and your feelings are validated.

I’ll share two recent examples of venting: one of my galpals started venting to me about someone she was having difficulty working with. Turns out I’d had difficulty working with him too, and had thought I was the only one! It was SO nice to hear that I wasn’t going crazy, or that there was something wrong with me or my judgment. Meanwhile she was afraid there was something wrong with HER, so I reassured her that wasn’t the case.

Another time, I was the one venting to a different galpal about how demoralizing it was to have a mouse in the house and to have traps that weren’t doing their job. First, she made me feel better because she assured me that others were just as upset to have mice running around their house (it wasn’t just me being irrational). Then she offered multiple other solutions, one of which did eventually work.

Venting is good for the soul. But maybe the lesson here is to do it with likeminded girlfriends, not with men? Instead, we’ll ask you men to actually catch the mice. 😉

]]>By: Evan Marc Katzhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60224
Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:34:28 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60224I’m noticing a pattern. The men (myself included) offer a male viewpoint, which may contradict your female viewpoint. Yet instead of responding to the male point of view, some women occasionally attack the men themselves. Sometimes with extreme sarcasm. Sometimes with out and out attacks. Sometimes I even delete them because there’s nothing remotely constructive about them.

I’m not playing favorites, but just observing here: even when Bob was at his most animated, he was referring to Casey’s argument, not Casey.

He successfully paraphrased what I was driving at in the original post: “The stereotype is that most men think solely or primarily in terms of solving a problem/accomplishing a task, and are little concerned with how they feel about it. That’s what’s meant by men are problem solvers .

Thus, it’s not that we’re “better than you” (the impression you may have had which he dispelled in his last line: I’d bet a month’s salary I’m a better problem solver than you. Not a very useful statement, now is it?) It’s that – in general – we’re task-oriented, not process oriented. We’re willing to bruise feelings to fix stuff, where women – in general – try to protect their girlfriends by supporting them. “No, you don’t look fat in those jeans,” being the most cliched example.

While this may not apply to YOU, it applies to MANY women. Pick up a Deborah Tannen book about the linguistic differences between men and women. You’ll see. Men say “Shut the window.” Women say, “Do you think it’s cold in here?” You’ve heard this yourself, I’m sure.

Spun another way, women are much more sensitive to feelings – and because of that – aren’t as likely to be direct or blunt. This makes women better listeners than men – who may be just as effective as men at solving problems – but know when to hold off in doing so with their own girlfriends.

If you can acknowledge that my last “pro-woman” paragraph makes sense, I hope you can acknowledge the validity of my original post – and Bob’s comment as well – without the sarcasm and attacks.

The kind of men who read (and write) this blog are the GOOD ones, and should be treated accordingly, instead of as an adversary, which we certainly are not.

]]>By: Bettyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60216
Fri, 19 Mar 2010 16:17:58 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60216Bob@29: Thank you for pointing out where Casey went wrong, and thank you, Casey, for being gal enough to own up to your character flaws. The guys on here are great problems solvers and are so reasonable. That’s the main thing. Their ability to reason. That’s why they’re such great problem solvers. And after a good day of problem solving they just want to leave the seat up. Let the one with those unreasonable girl parts solve a problem for a change!

]]>By: Caseyhttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60201
Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:48:49 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60201Bob @#29: Thank you for advising me what I was thinking and feeling when I wrote my comments at #18…indignant, condemning and critical of men. I didn’t realize that was what I felt, but you cleared it right up for me, and have set me on the straight and narrow. I’ll be changing that attitude to make sure it doesn’t ever happen again.
Reading what you said you’re post, you are right. You are a much better problem solver than me. I will now go forth in the world and live my life accordingly to what you said, because after I made only one post, you were able to identify my issues, advise me of them and solve them for me. I am impressed and grateful for your help.
Thank you.
P.S. In the future, I will also be sure to adhere to, and act accordingly any time I encounter a “valid stereotype.”
]]>By: Melissahttp://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/communication/do-you-want-advice-or-do-you-want-validation/comment-page-2/#comment-60200
Fri, 19 Mar 2010 11:30:36 +0000http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/?p=2660#comment-60200Hadley… a woman wanting the toilet seat down is a red flag? Really??????
You’re truly making Evan’s point about the danger of broad generalizations… “Women who want the toilet seat down are going to be a pain in the ass so I’m outta here”
95% of women I know want the toilet seat down and the other 4% are just being nice and holding back from telling you they prefer it; so I guess that leaves you with 1% of datable women who TRULY don’t care.
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