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The block of rooms will be held up to 30 days prior to arrival. All individuals would be responsible for securing your own reservation with a credit card and a 1 night deposit would be due. Cancellation within 30 days of arrival would constitute a one night penalty. Any room not reserved prior to 30 days would be released back into general inventory.

In addition, I have secured a group contract with American Airlines. Not a big deal, but would constitute a 5% savings for flights into either San Francisco or Oakland. Open jaws are permitted.

Of the three hotels that are under consideration so far, the Chancellor Hotel is by far the best, even though it is a bit more expensive than the other choices. It is an older hotel that has been attractively refurbished. I haven't been in any of the rooms, but I've eaten in the restaurant. The lobby is very attractive and welcoming. This hotel has one of the best locations in San Francisco. It is in the heart of Union Square on the Powell St. cable car line. This is a very lively and safe neighborhood. Restaurants in all price ranges are a very easy walk from the hotel, and the transportation hub at Market and Powell Streets is just a couple of blocks away. The Chancellor has gotten excellent reviews on TripAdvisor.com (a great site for hotel and restaurant reviews). As I mentioned in a PM to Dennis, when you step out of this hotel, you really feel that you're in San Francisco.

I'm not so familiar with the Powell Hotel. It's located in a good area near Union Square, but the reviews on TripAdvisor.com were decidedly mixed.

The Ramada is a very large hotel located on a dismal stretch of Market Street. There are very few decent places to eat in this area. I do not feel safe at night in this area. I would absolutely not recommend this hotel, even though it appears to be the cheapest one so far.

Thanks for your input Allan as someone who apparently knows San Francisco...It would appear that the Russian River idea was a good thought but that accomodations would be difficult for us all to be together in one place and that perhaps if others thought so as well then a stay in San Fran and a day trip or an overnight in Russian River makes the most sense, though I am sure some people will be upset by this "change" in plans....Paying a bit more for a good hotel in a nice area is a good idea, as from what I experienced in San Francisco when I was practically broke and stayed at some seedy hotels in 1981 an area that is not safe or has good restaurants is not a good idea. San Francisco may be too expensive for some but is looking like it may be the best alternative.

Jody

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"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

Once again Dennis thank you so much, and thank you Allan for your input regarding the hotels.

I think going with Plan B (SF) will gererate more interest in this years AMG, from what I have read so far I think most are interested in a City vacation rather than a rural one..but as been suggested, several times, Russian river would make a great day trip or for those inclined an overnight stay...and the city hotels are more than willing to give us the time we need to get everything off the ground.

Unfortunatly there will be some who will be upset by this, but if we had been given more time and help from the Russian River retreat I don't think it would have been a problem, but as always we can't please everyone, as much as we would like to it's not always possible.

WOW!! I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER FOR ABOUT A MONTH AND I AM CONTINUALLY "WOWED" BY THE PARTICIPATION, COMMITMENT, AND INTEGRITY OF THE "GROUP" HERE! DENNIS YOUR CONNECTIONS, KNOWLEDGE AND HARD WORK IS SO APPRECIATED.

I VOTE FOR THE CHANCELLOR....THE DIFFERENCE IN $$ BETWEEN THE CHOICES DOES NOT WARRANT GOING "CHEAPEST"....SEEMS LIKE I ALWAYS REGRET IT WHEN I DO THAT....AND THEY ARE GIVING US A NICE BREAK OFF THE POSTED INTERNET RATES.

I stayed in that Ramada a few years ago while attending a convention at the Moscone Center.I agree with Allan completely. The neighborhood was scary; the room I was in was also very small and dingy, and the "fitness center" was a complete joke. And I'm not picky, by any means...I can't attend AMG, but I thought I would pass on my experience with the Ramada.

Sounds like the Ramada is not a good idea based upon what Allan and Craig have mentioned.

The other two are certainly good possibilities and the rates are fantastic, certainly cheaper than I thought we would ever find.

One thing I did notice, The Chancellor is completely smoke free whereas The Powell does offer the option of smoking rooms. Remembering that a large (more than 50%?) of the members who went to Montreal and Toronto were smokers, if this could be given some consideration I would certainly appreciate it. I'm a polite smoker, (heck I live in a state where we aren't allowed to smoke anywhere indoors, we can't smoke within 25 feet of any doorway, window, or airvent, and they enforce it strictly) but being able to be in my hotel room and satisfy my addiction to nicotine late at night when I can't sleep, is kind of important. Just wanted to make that appeal.

After much convincing, the deposit and cancellation policy remain the same as at the other properties. One night deposit due at time of reservation. Must be booked at least 30 days prior to group arrival. One night penalty if cancelled within 30 days of group arrival.

HEY....THE PHOENIX LOOKS GREAT AS WELL! AND A MORE INTIMATE PROPERTY WITH JUST 44 ROOMS. I AM NOT A SMOKER BUT REALIZE THAT THOSE WHO ARE WOULD LEAN TOWARDS THIS ONE. HOW DOES THIS LOCATION COMPARE WITH THE CHANCELLOR? GREAT CHOICE TO REPLACE THE RAMADA....WHEN IS THE VOTE? GEEZ IT'S STILL JANUARY AND I'M GETTING ALL WORKED UP OVER THIS TRIP....

The Phoenix is funky and fun...I stayed there with a friend for a week once, Xmas to New Years.Not the best neighborhood, but one block to Polk Street.Ask about noise from the disco (or live music in the bar)...and pack your ear plugs!Not a fancy hotel by any means...more of an old-style, L-shaped motel that you don't expect in a city like SFO...but I thoroughly enjoyed it.But if you're looking for luxury and incredible service...it might not be the ticket.(I'll shut up now...)

HEY ADEMAS....ALWAYS GREAT TO HEAR FROM ONE WHO HAS "BEEN THERE, DONE THAT"....I MAY NOT BE A SMOKER....AND I DO LIKE FUNKY 'N FUN ....BUT WHEN THE FUN IS DONE I WANT A PEACEFUL NIGHTS REST....HMMM....HAVE TO SLEEP ON THIS ONE.....

The Phoenix is a great motel. It's on the edge of the Tenderloin, neat Polk St. Polk St. was the original Castro. When I first moved to California back in the 70's the bars and the boys were on Polk St. The Gay parade was on Polk St. Everything has shifted, of course, but Polk St. is still Polk St and will always have a fond place in my heart.

Anyway, the motel, I think, is right up our alley. It's really not "family" oriented. It's the place of choice for people who are a little left of normal (or "nearly normal" as I like to say.) People like Rufus Wainright <sigh> and rock bands and stage designers and rock collectors and ASO counselors and accountants and former Wall St. types, and PhD candidates and teachers and professors and state employees and nurses and hotel security employees and upper management types who work for the airlines and, last but not least, lovers of llamas.

All the rooms are ground level and open out to the pool area. Meals are pool side. Room parties always flow out to poolside (I've been to a couple...they were really fun) And, get this, (llama lovers, please take note...)you can party all night and SECURITY will not come by to tell you to SHUT UP !!.

The Phoenix sounds really fun and convenient. Isn't there a city bus that travels between Polk St. and Castro? I don't know SF very well but isn't Polk Street close to Fisherman's Wharf?

One of my friends took me to a pier during high tide. It was built from the rubble left in the 06 quake, has tubes running through it and benches. At high tide the tubes play music. Have the best dayMichael(who would like to request a song by Carlene Carter)

The Phoenix is on the edge of the Tenderloin, at the corner of Ellis and Larkin Streets. Some might just call this area off-beat or funky. I would call it seedy. The location is nowhere near as good as that of the Chancellor or the Powell.

The 27 reviews for the Phoenix on TripAdvisor.com run the gamut from people who loved this hotel to people who hated it. A lot of people were put off by the area and the street noise, but others loved this hotel.

For me, the most important things about a hotel (after price) are (1) very clean and reasonably comfortable rooms, and (2) a convenient and pleasant location. I don't need luxury--just a place that I don't mind coming back to after a full day of activities. When I arrive at a hotel in a new city, the first thing I want to do is go out and explore the neighborhood around the hotel. The area around the Phoenix does not invite you to do this.

I won't be staying with the group, since I live nearby in Oakland. But I would still like visitors to feel comfortable and have a good impression of San Francisco. Maybe I'm showing my age, but the idea of staying at a "party hotel" makes me cringe. I would prefer a hotel where the management does shut up rowdy guests.

Read the reviews before voting on this hotel.

I hope my complaints about the Ramada and the Phoenix don't make me sound too much like the resident hotel curmudgeon.

I hope my complaints about the Ramada and the Phoenix don't make me sound too much like the resident hotel curmudgeon.

Allan

Allan:

Not at all, in fact I totally appreciate your input and suggestions. One thing we've learned in previous gatherings is to give a lot of attention to members who actually live in the city we'll be visiting. Thank you for taking the time to give us that.

I hope all members who are planning on attending will consider the choices that have been offered, read the "reviews" you have suggested, consider what it is they truly are looking for, and then take the time and effort to give feedback to Dennis so that he can have some ideas about which property is going to best suit our needs.

For me personally my priorities are as follows:

nonnegotiableA. I don't want to stay in a hotel that is in an unsafe area.B. I want a hotel that meets the physical needs (read easy access and elevators) for members who have mobility problems.C. I would like to stay at or below the $150.00 price point, so that the cost associated with San Francisco doesn't exclude members. (I think that was the price point identified in Cliff's survey--though I could be wrong).D. I will not stay in a hotel where our presence (read HIV+) is treated with disrespect. We will be dropping a chunk of change on this gathering and we shouldn't expect anything less than superior gracious service. Period. End of discussion.

negotiableA. Smoking option (I'm a smoker but recognize that I may have to concede on this point).

B. Price vs quality. (One of the things I've learned from Allan's suggestion to read reviews of Tripadvisor, is that we need to be realistic. At this price point, we are at best looking at small rooms with inadequate plumbing, at worst we are looking at a total hell. (I got so depressed when I took Allan's advice to review all the properties can't tell you. I assumed San Francisco had a lot more to offer. Maybe I'm overreacting to what I read, maybe Tripadvisor needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but still).

So for me I'm willing to sacrifice some things, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the experience of the gathering by checking into a hotel, opening the door of my room, and realizing I'm stuck with crap. Can't we find a hotel where we have some reasonable assurance that what is presented on their web site is in fact an accurate representation of what we will get? If I have to pay a little more for that reassurance I'd rather do that.

Other desires

A. A refrigerator in the room so I can store my premixed Fuzeon.B. An in room coffee maker, I get up at 4:30 - 5:00 a.m. and NEED my coffee.C. A location which has reasonable security, a gracious and accommodating staff.

I think it's really important for everyone who is planning on attending to take the time to prioritize their wishes and expectations. Understand that not everything can be achieved, and communicate that within this thread.

For the prices we are going to pay we are not going to get quite the quality in San Francisco that we got in Toronto, Montreal or Nashville...San Fran is like New York in that you are expected to pay a great deal for any kind of luxury...A refrigarator in a room is very important to folks like Rocky who need it for meds and also for those who can save a few dollars on food.

I cannot reiterate how important a safe area is in San Fran...a seedy area in that town would be a disaster, we are much better off paying a few extra dollars for a decent area.

Jody

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"Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world". "Try to discover that you are the song that the morning brings."

From what I have read so far..and if it indeed can be believed, the Chancellor does seem to be the better choice..even thought I'm a smoker, if it has easy access to the main areas of the city and we can feel safe then I'm fine with that choice of hotel.

The Powell also seems to offer about the same and comes a very close second...and it does offer rooms for those of us who smoke.

I will wait and see how things progress and how the voting will go because I'm fine with either of these hotels..but as Rab said it would be nice to know that what we see and what we read is what we will actually get.

Thank you Rocky! I urge everyone to do their own research and submit your feedback within this thread.

What I recommend is doing a google search of each of the hotels. BUT...instead of clicking on "google search" click on "images". This will display an abundant amount of images of these properties which will lead you to different websites each describing the properties.

Personally I take Trip Advisor with a grain of salt. Think of the most luxurious, high-end resort you can think of and then research it in Trip Advisor. I can almost gte you'll find negative feedback. Keep in mind...people are more apt to complain than give praise. And trust me, after being in the industry there are some people you just can't make happy no matter what.

I believe some of the complaints about the Powell were the dinginess of the rooms. These posts were from the latter part of last year. Unfortunately, hotels can't remodel all of their room at the same time. During a refurbishment, some guests are going to stay in the nicer rooms while other will be stuck in the older rooms. I'll check with the Powell Hotel tomorrow to ensure that all room refurbishments will be completed prior to September, if not done so already.

I personally would stay in any of these hotels and would have no problem placing any of my personal clientele in them.

Tomorrow I'll check on each of the hotels to see if mini fridges would be available.

One thing to clarify, a mini-fridge isn't necessary, it's simply something that would allow the storage of premixed Fuzeon. Fuzeon does not need to be premixed. So don't make this a huge criteria on that basis. However, Jody's comment that some members on limited budgets having the availability of a fridge may allow them to shave dollars of the cost is valid.

Either way, members giving input about their expectations and priorities is important. None of us can expect you to be the "grand wizard" in this matter, we all must recognize that compromises will have to be made. I'm cool with that.

I guess for me the underlying issue is what Jan mentioned, knowing that what we see is what we can have a reasonable expectation of getting. Some of the reviews gave me the perception that it's a crap shoot, I don't like that.

Refridgerators are only available in the suites. They do have a fridge behind the front desk for medications. When I asked about the surrounding area the agent described it as colorful. He advised he's worked there for the past year and there has never been a report of an attack or car break-in.

Chancellor Hotel

Refridgerators are available upon request at no adittional charge. Absolutely no smoking on property, it's an historic property. Out of all three, this resort seems to offer everything our group would need (except smoking area) icluding bar, restaraunt, wi-fi access, free local calls, etc. http://www.chancellorhotel.com/hotelinfo2.htm

Powell Hotel

Refridgerators availabe upon request. 12 smoking rooms available throughout the property. All rooms have not been refurbished, although, all mattresses have been replaced. In my experience from when I used to work at hotels, groups are typically placed in the nicer rooms.

I am familiar with both the Powell and the Phoenix. I lived in San Francisco for 20 years. If the Phoenix is in a seedy area,, then so is the Powell. One is on the Western side of the Tenderloin and the other is on the Eastern end. Walk one block in the wrong direction from either property and your in the midst of the tenderloin. Let me also add the Tenderloin is next to Union Square, where the Chancellor is. It's only maybe 3-4 blocks away.

Perhaps the Tenderloin gets a bad rep because of its name (just the name itself conjures up images of the underbelly). What it is, actually, is one of the most dense housing neighborhoods in the City, second only to Chinatown. It is mostly comprised of 10, 15 or 20 story buildings with affordable housing, occupied primarily by the elderly, poor immigrants (primarily from SE Asia) and other marginalized people, (many of whom have HIV/AIDS) who need subsidized / affordable housing and easy access to city services, including transportation, FARMERS MARKET/, city and county services, including ASO's , grocery stores etc. All of these services are available in the Tenderloin. Ironically, some of the best restaurants in the City are located here. It is also the home of GLIDE MEMORIAL CHURCH.

What you won't find here are the high-scale boutiques that are in Union Square, The Castro, Union Street, and other gentrified areas of the city. You also won't find dirty book stores, XXX rated theatres, or other signs of despair that cater/expolit the poor and homeless.

I cannot deny that homelessness is a problem but I'll tell you right now that is true for the entire city. Many visitors return from SF appalled at the amount of homelessness. Some of you remarked about the homeless problem in Montreal. Personally, it didn't seem a problem to me. You see, it was nothing compared to San Francisco. Some people like to say Long Beach is home of the homeless. Well, SF gives Long Beach a run for its money. You will see it all over. Let me also say, homelessness is rampant in and around Union Square, even though you have the likes of NIKE, MACYS, HYATT REGEACY, (and the Chancellor)and other upscale boutiques and establishments. In fact, I'd be willing to bet you will see more homelessness in Union Square and these other neighborhoods because there are more places to "sleep". You see, in the Tenderloin, there is also housing for the homeless. The homeless who go to the Tenderloin go there to get off the streets. Not all homeless people want that though. Many prefer to say outside at night. Those are the ones who migrate to other parts of the City.

Let me just add, the Phoenix brings together all the colorful elements that gives San Francisco its cosmopolitan flavor. Gay, straight, upper class, beatniks, punks, techno geeks, opera and symphony groupies, Castro clones, and ethnic cultures from around the world.. If any of our members want to sashay down the lobby twirling their boa, they will certainly feel welcome.

The Chancellor and the Powell hotel are nice properties. There is nothing wrong with them. You can find hotels just like them in Denver, Seattle, Kansas City, Pittsburgh. Anywhere in the world, really.

But if you really want to savor the San Francisco experience, I would choose the Phoenix.

Robert, How convenient are the Phoenix and the Powell to decent restaurants within walking distance? That was an issue in Montreal for some members, and restaurants were VERY convenient to the hotel there.

#1. The Chancellor in the fourth weekend of Sept.As a second choice, the Powell, during the third weekend of Sept. I have no problems with any of the neighborhoods. I'm OK with using transit system to access restaurants/sights. San Francisco has an excellent transit system.

Just my 2 cents: I am not keen to staying anyplace that I can hear the endless thump-thumping bass of bar music coming through the walls. I lived with that choice in Chicago, when I was residing there, and thought I'd adjust to it. The adjustment never happened. It just cuts through the sleep cycle in a way that traffic sounds don't. Some of us will gravitate towards the night life. Others, not. I personally like getting up at 5 am and having my coffee--I'm off to any early start every morning. Just a preference, I know.

Despite their shortcomings, hotel reviews have served me well in my travels. Dennis is right when he says that even the finest hotel will generate some bad reviews. You have to look at the general trend in the reviews, and not focus on one or two that might have been prompted by something inconsequential like a bad experience with room service. Sometimes a hotel botches a reservation, which can prompt a scathing review. Sometimes people have unrealistic ideas about what's "safe" or "unsafe" in a large city. They feel an area is unsafe if they see a few street people hanging around. If there are one or two complaints about the neighborhood in a set of 20 reviews, I don't pay much attention. If there are a lot of complaints about the neighborhood, I do pay attention.

I agree with Dennis when he says that people with negative opinions tend to submit reviews more than people with positive opinions. For this reason, when a hotel gets a lot of good reviews and very few negative reviews, I think that's a good sign.

I also try to look at reviews on more than one site. Travelocity, as well as TripAdvisor, has reviews for most of the hotels listed on its website. Recommendations in guidebooks can also add weight to an online review.

Reviews are definitely not infallible--there's always an element of chance when making a hotel reservation. A few years ago, after exhaustive research, I checked into a highly rated and expensive hotel in Manhattan. When I entered the room, I was shocked. The room was tiny, with only one small window that was literally two feet from a brick wall. This room should have been a storage closet. You couldn't tell if it was day or night in the room. I got a lot of attitude when I asked to get a different room. But the next day I spoke to a manager who apologized and had my room changed to a nice and bright room.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet you will see more homelessness in Union Square and these other neighborhoods because there are more places to "sleep". You see, in the Tenderloin, there is also housing for the homeless. The homeless who go to the Tenderloin go there to get off the streets. Not all homeless people want that though. Many prefer to say outside at night. Those are the ones who migrate to other parts of the City.

This is true, for three reasons - Union Square borders the Tenderloin, many tourists give them money, and it's close to many restaurants that throw out food. I walk through the tenderloin on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays at 5 a.m. to go to the gym. There are always homeless up. However, for the resaons I stated above, Union Square and other touristy areas are where they tend to hang out...

I was in San Francisco today, and I decided to visit the Powell and Phoenix Hotels. I went into each hotel and asked to see a "typical" room (not the best and not the worst). I also checked out the surrounding neighborhoods. Here is my report:

Powell HotelIt looks kind of drab on the outside, but inside it's fine. The hotel has six floors. The lobby is simple but attractive, and the hallways were wide and pleasant. This is an old hotel, but it's been redone very nicely. I was shown a room on the fifth floor facing a small interior court (more like a large light well). The room I saw had two double beds. Although it had no view toward the street, it was reasonably bright. (Lower floor rooms might not be so light). Everything looked very clean and well taken care of. The bathroom was fine--clean and of average size. Rooms facing the street would definitely have some street noise (especially the side facing Powell Street, where the cable car runs). The windows are not double-paned. If you want quiet and don't mind having no view, ask for an interior room or bring earplugs.

The area around the hotel is very good and safe. It's practically next to the new Westfield shopping center, which is more like a high-rise collection of mostly expensive stores. There are lots of places to eat in all budget ranges on and around Powell Street or in the many restaurants in the shopping center.

Phoenix HotelThis is actually a two-story motel, with all rooms facing a courtyard with a small oval-shaped swimming pool. The architecture looks like it's from the 1960s. The fact that all the rooms face the courtyard has advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that it would be a nice place for everyone to get together. When you leave your room, you'd immediately see who's hanging around, and this would be good for group interaction. The disadvantage is that at night, you'd probably be subject to a good deal of noise if there are people having loud conversations. I asked if there was music on the patio during the nice weather. I was told that there is, but that it stops at 10 pm on weekdays and 11 pm on weekends.

All the rooms look like they're pretty much the same. The one I was shown was pure 1960's motel. It was clean and decent-sized, like what you'd expect from a budget motel. The bathroom looked like it could use some updating, but it was adequate.

I walked around the neighborhood surrounding the hotel. It's not attractive, but it didn't feel unsafe, at least not at 2 pm in the afternoon. There are a number of inexpensive restaurants in the neighborhood, Chinese and Vietnamese being the most predominant cuisines.

Transportation in this area is OK, but not as convenient as it is for the Chancellor or Powell Hotel. The nearest stop for BART and MUNI (Municipal transit system) is the Civic Center station, about six blocks away on Market Street. I wouldn't call the walk scary, but it's not pretty either.

Chancellor HotelI didn't get a chance to view a room at the Chancellor, but the same caution about street noise applies here. If you value quiet over a view, then ask for a room in the back of the hotel. As with the Powell, the windows are not double-paned. (I called and asked.) See my first post in this thread for my impressions of the Chancellor.

ALLAN....THANK YOU! I CONTINUE TO BE AMAZED AND HUMBLED BY THE POWER OF GOOD THAT COMES FROM THE PEOPLE IN THIS FORUM.....WOW!

AT FIRST I WAS ALL ABOUT THE CHANCELLOR BUT NOW I'M THINKING THE POWELL....ACCOMODATIONS FOR SMOKERS (OF WHICH I AM NOT) AND CLOSE TO A GREAT VARIETY OF EVERYTHING. AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST THEY ARE OFFERING A GREAT RATE!

IT LOOKS LIKE THE PHOENIX HAS ALOT OF CHARACTER AND WOULD BE A GREAT "EXPERIENCE" BUT IN A GROUP SETTING WHERE THERE ARE NUMEROUS ISSUES TO ADDRESS I DON'T THINK THIS IS THE "ONE".

The Powell and the Chancellor are both on the cable car line on Powell Street, a short walk from each other. Everything about the neighborhood, transportation, and restaurant situation applies equally to the Powell and the Chancellor.

None of these hotels have air-conditioning. Thanks to the fog, the weather rarely gets very hot, even at the height of summer. (That is not to say that heat waves never happen.) I don't know anyone who lives in San Francisco who has air conditioning in their home. The Powell and the Chancellor have ceiling fans in the rooms. I don't remember seeing fans in the Phoenix.

I've put a lot of thought into this and have pretty much narrowed it down to either the Chancellor or the Powell.

I loved Robert's description of the Phoenix being somewhat eclectic and the idea of all of us being able to gather around the pool in the AM would be wonderful. But like MJ mentioned I don't want to hear the bar music pounding through the walls all night long.

The Chancellor has announced they will begin a major refurbishing of their rooms in March (tripadvisor--gm's post) which they anticipate will take 7 months. So that would be a point in their favor, assuming they stay on schedule it would be nearly complete by the time we arrive.

The Powell, once I discovered you can see photos of the rooms taken by guests on Tripadvisor, looks good, clean, and comfortable. I loved some of the photos of the bathrooms too. And as you pointed out their refurbishment couldn't happen all at once and some people got rooms that hadn't been updated yet. The other things I like about the Powell are their coffee is in room (as opposed to having to go down to the lobby at the Chancellor) and yes, they do have smoking rooms .

Most of the finer restaurants are spread around the City. Other than hotel restaurants, I can't think of many of the "finer" restaurants in the Union Square area. There are, of course, fast-food franchises as this is where many of the tourists gather. In the tenderloin, not far away, are many very nice Asian restaurants (Thai, Vietnamese, Chinese, Indian).

Union Square in not near the Castro. Remember that main drag we walked up and down in Montreal like 5 or 6 times/day? Well, multiply that by 4 and you have the Castro. Only, it's more compact, meaning it's like 4 square blocks and not one long street. There are many restaurants and stores in the Castro. The Castro is on "upper" Market. If you take in that portion of Market St that goes from Church ST to Castro, then you really have a wide selection of restaurants and stores. I mention this because there is also a Travelodge on "upper" Market that might also be an option.

For me the choices are now narrowed down to the Powell and the Chancellor...even though the Phoenix sounds nice with rooms overlooking the pool and court area and would be a perfect place to meet every morning I to would be concerned about the noise, remember there will be a couple of "oldies" in the group..and we need our sleep...OK I'm being selfish..I was only thinking of this "oldie"...

Hopefully everyone is doing their homework and soon we will be able to vote the the Hotel and really start to get this years AMG going.

Thanks again Allan and Dennis for everything you are doing for us...it really is much appreciated..and to everyone else who are doing their bit to make this years AMG a good one.