Can any one explain how NASCAR decide the finishing order after that ?

I thought they went with the order on the last timing loop crossed before the yellow, but the commentators said in a G&W checker they won't throw a yellow after they start the last lap, so maybe its the order they cross the line, but then what do they do about the immobile cars ?

In turn 3 I thought Waltrip was going to win, and was cheering for him

Do any of you guys seriously believe NASCAR is continuously lucking out on avoiding fatalities, or are the cars plain and simply incredibly safe and we're rarely close to serious injury or death anymore? I've been thinking about that on super speedway races the past year or two and I can't decide which of those two extremes is closer to the truth.

Ambrose who is fourth technically there ended up 27th 1-21 were regarded as running so i think thats those that actually made the line. Gordon and Busch missed it the 34 (in the wall at the top came fourth!) and 78 (underneath Stewart in the picture) didn't but they still escaped that mess and beat biffle who unbelievably also missed it (seriously watch him in the replays its a great piece of driving). Kesolowski got tagged a lot but ended up pointing the right way and ended seventh Kvapil no idea where he was but he's 8th same with Newman in ninth, Burton was also in it, he's in front of Biffle in that picture but he ended up 10th. I think thats everyone that didn't at least spin as Harvick certainly did as can be clearly seen above, Kahne had Smoke on top of him but managed to drive out to 12th. Waltrip was hellishly unlucky he actually drove out only to be hit by Bobby Labonte as he was driving away with Biffle. Crazy stuff.

Do any of you guys seriously believe NASCAR is continuously lucking out on avoiding fatalities, or are the cars plain and simply incredibly safe and we're rarely close to serious injury or death anymore? I've been thinking about that on super speedway races the past year or two and I can't decide which of those two extremes is closer to the truth.

But one day a driver will not walk away, and then everyone will want to know why something wasn't done when the danger was so transparently obvious. Nobody in their right mind believes that NASCAR's final plate track fatality is behind it. It's not a matter of if. It's a matter of when.

How can people look at the videotape of yesterday's Big One and say they don't see a problem? You would have to be blind or insane.

But past incidents you describe, in any series, were more based around what happened after the wreck. Cockpit sides in F1, SAFER barriers, the HANS device, etc etc.

Though F1 has really gone down the route of improving 'safety' but reducing the risk of incident rather than the affects of incident. It's hard to hit anything in an F1 car.

So in that sense as all-but-guaranteed as the incidents on plate tracks are, I don't see a risk to the drivers. Beyond the dice roll that eventually they will have a freak accident through sheer numbers.

So in that sense as all-but-guaranteed as the incidents on plate tracks are, I don't see a risk to the drivers. Beyond the dice roll that eventually they will have a freak accident through sheer numbers.

You don't see a risk to the drivers when one car gets sideways and upside down in a pack of 30 other cars all going 200 mph? Seriously?

When someone is hurt or killed in that scenario, you can't call it a freak accident. You can only call it a highly foreseeable event.

In the event of another fatality, NASCAR will look like idiots trying to say they thought it was safe. All the media has to do is play the tapes.

As Talladega was on early Monday morning, I only saw the incident after reading comments, watching the replay on NASCAR.com. The initial parts of the replay showed the cars running around the track 4 wide. That was truly incredible, and no doubt very exciting live. But it wouldn't take a genius to see it was going to end in tears. All it would take is an engine to stutter, a tyre to let go, a driver to get ambitious, or one to try to block and it would all end in a wreck.

While there is a lot of skill in running in a pack like that, where are the opportunities for drivers to try to improve their position?

Also, I think Kyle Busch said that he was only using 1/4 throttle pushing Gordon!

As Talladega was on early Monday morning, I only saw the incident after reading comments, watching the replay on NASCAR.com. The initial parts of the replay showed the cars running around the track 4 wide. That was truly incredible, and no doubt very exciting live. But it wouldn't take a genius to see it was going to end in tears. All it would take is an engine to stutter, a tyre to let go, a driver to get ambitious, or one to try to block and it would all end in a wreck.

And the irony is that the guy who started it, was running alone, not 4-wide

While there is a lot of skill in running in a pack like that, where are the opportunities for drivers to try to improve their position?

You surf the waves, so to speak. Usually, the lines of cars like aren't running at the same speed, so there are opportunities to duck into a faster lane until you reach daylight. That's how Waltrip made it to the front in the end.

You surf the waves, so to speak. Usually, the lines of cars like aren't running at the same speed, so there are opportunities to duck into a faster lane until you reach daylight. That's how Waltrip made it to the front in the end.

You don't see a risk to the drivers when one car gets sideways and upside down in a pack of 30 other cars all going 200 mph? Seriously?

When someone is hurt or killed in that scenario, you can't call it a freak accident. You can only call it a highly foreseeable event.

In the event of another fatality, NASCAR will look like idiots trying to say they thought it was safe. All the media has to do is play the tapes.

But it is 'safe'. I make a distinction between risk of incident and risk of injury. There aren't any glaring safety gaps that I can see. Unless they've got a space in the pitwall a la Michigan. That was pretty stupid.

And as visually chaotic as plate-wrecks are, I don't see many really hard hits. Sometimes when a guy(or Danica) gets tagged and shoots off towards the inside wall, but I've seen that on lots of 1.5+ mile tracks.

"If this is what we did every week, I wouldn't be doing it, I will just put it to you like that," Earnhardt said after Sunday’s Good Sam 500 at Talladega Speedway. "If this is how we raced every week, I would find another job."

"If this is what we did every week, I wouldn't be doing it, I will just put it to you like that," Earnhardt said after Sunday’s Good Sam 500 at Talladega Speedway. "If this is how we raced every week, I would find another job."

It really is a joke. The drivers think its a joke, the fans who want to see legitimate racing think its a joke. Take the damn plates off and let them do 220mph laps around the track. The cars are safe enough for it these days.

Right, Trevor Bayne as 21st passed the line 44 minutes after Matt Kenseth

I always assumed there was some kind of time limits for completing the last lap. After all, you wouldn't want to wait two weeks for a car to crawls to the finish line at 0.001 mph. Or it could be that the car crossed the s/f line on a wrecker, which I would've also assumed would not count.

The cars might bounce fine, but what if they flew into catchfences at those speeds?

That's the real danger, IMO. I think a fan is going to get killed before a driver will in these wrecks, especially since the most dangerous part of the track is also the one most heavily populated by the spectators. We dodged the bullet with Edwards, but way too many things can go wrong in such accidents for us to ever be sure.

The wreck was on the ABC national news and they talked about what Dale Jr. said.

The cars are pretty safe but one problem is the thinner tubing that holds the rear panel together. I have seen that tubing come out of the cars multiple times. I would hate to see a section go through a drivers window or into the crowd.

The cars are pretty safe but one problem is the thinner tubing that holds the rear panel together. I have seen that tubing come out of the cars multiple times. I would hate to see a section go through a drivers window or into the crowd.

Good Catch.Never really noted it, but I agree it happens a lot.The front end clips are rock solid.maybe NASCAR considers the rear a crumple zone? They could leave it as is, and yet keep it tehered to the car a little better I suppose.