Quote A) You state using abilities for Survivability purposes, not damage purposes, but state elsewhere that tanks shouldn't have to do any DPS. You also state that points toward helping said mitigation abilities would be better spent on avoidance. Thus, you counter yourself.

No, I don't. Mitigation and aviodance move towards the same goal.

Originally Posted by Recke

Quote B) You state that you didn't use a mechanic that Blizzard designed for use. That's the same as not using mitigation abilities or stats.

I was the absorption tank. The OT didn't use the damage mechanic.

Originally Posted by Recke

Quote C) You state that you spread diseases (which is through dps abilities) and that you attacked the boss with your abilities despite him often ignoring the absorption, your said mitigation.

The reason the diseases were spread was from a Blood Boil proc. This makes Blood Boil free, but still grants the 10RP from spending a rune (it spends it and then instantly refunds it). This extra RP was then spent on an RP that accelerates the next DS.

Originally Posted by Recke

Quote D) You say that you use abilities for mitigation and I quote your earlier comment (and even bring up the AMR builds for DK include an Avoidance build, which each plate tank has available and you implied was the proper build for tanks) and then use you as an example to state that the other builds are popular and that mitigation is also viable.

The only proper build for tanks is the avoidance one. The others will be modified soon enough: see Prot Paladins stacking Haste so hard they nerfed the passive that made Haste stacking so popular.

Originally Posted by Recke

Quote E) You falsely state that when an ability is used, the damage is not guaranteed but the mitigation is, which, since the original topic is warriors, I clarify that this is false and that you earlier claimed this was false as well.

I don't know how many times I'm going to have to link you YOUR OWN WORDS to get you to realize you are incorrect.

Originally Posted by Firebert

No, I don't. Mitigation and aviodance move towards the same goal.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-Raiding/page3
You state that mitigation (aka, SS/Revenge to have rage for Shield Barrier/Block) is a stupid mistake that they should instead "build Sunders" to gain threat and they should of geared properly into avoidance. By stating this, you clearly indicate that this is not the same goal.

Originally Posted by Firebert

I was the absorption tank. The OT didn't use the damage mechanic.

You both are tanks. The mechanics are there for you. You as tanks. Not you as some random guy on the internet who is never at fault and always 100% right.

Originally Posted by Firebert

The reason the diseases were spread was from a Blood Boil proc. This makes Blood Boil free, but still grants the 10RP from spending a rune (it spends it and then instantly refunds it). This extra RP was then spent on an RP that accelerates the next DS.

Your Blood spec has Runic Corruption. Runic Strike has a 45% chance at increasing Rune Generation. Using Blood Boil and Runic Strike were dps abilities that offer no mitigation in of themselves. They help with mitigation via Death Strike, much like Shield Slam and Revenge increase Rage so you can use your mitigation abilities as a warrior, but apparently that is not the right answer and you should of just taunted to hold agro and not used any abilities except maybe Death Strike when available. Another thing to note is that you put diseases up in the first place. Diseases are a dps increase and hold no damage reduction that shouldn't of already been on the boss (you weren't the only tank). You had no reason to put diseases. Also, Blood Boil requires diseases already on a target to spread, and you can't hit the boss from the Shadow Realm, so you put diseases up on something to dps and then spread it for damage.

Originally Posted by Firebert

The only proper build for tanks is the avoidance one. The others will be modified soon enough: see Prot Paladins stacking Haste so hard they nerfed the passive that made Haste stacking so popular.

You aren't using the avoidance one for Blood DK, so you aren't proper tanking. How can you guarantee that the others will be modified? In the last post, I linked to the forums where a Dev actually commented on Blizzard likes how MoP warrior tanking is because of the options available. Hit/Expertise provide the best mitigation for warriors (the avoidance only states it's better if you don't use Shield Barrier, one of two available mitigation abilities). Thus, the avoidance one is not the proper build. Also, Prot Paladin haste stacking is still the widely accepted Prot Paladin spec due to the "nerfs" not being enough to make it better to not stack haste (outside of Stamina for magic, which goes for most classes). So, this again is wrong.

Originally Posted by Firebert

I never said that Death Knights are Warriors.

Originally Posted by Firebert

Wow, really?

Tanks are supposed to tank, not DPS. Taking huge amounts of non-tanking stats just so your DPS can slack isn't the best way to gear, TBH.

You never said Death Knights either. You said tanks. All tanks.

Originally Posted by Firebert

So you say they only want Tanks pushing Heroic mode raiding to care about DPS.

They already do that and that's a tiny population of the raiding community, and GC just says tanks, so I'm going to assume he means all of them.

Originally Posted by Firebert

Anything else?

1) I'm curious what you are even arguing, outside of just how wrong you have been.
2)

You state that mitigation (aka, SS/Revenge to have rage for Shield Barrier/Block) is a stupid mistake that they should instead "build Sunders" to gain threat and they should of geared properly into avoidance. By stating this, you clearly indicate that this is not the same goal.

No. The goal is mitigation or avoidance, not DPS. Please stop trying to twist my words, I've been very clear from the beginning.

Originally Posted by Recke

Using Blood Boil and Runic Strike were dps abilities that offer no mitigation in of themselves.

They hasten DS, so, they offer a percentage multiplier on mitigation.

Originally Posted by Recke

Another thing to note is that you put diseases up in the first place. Diseases are a dps increase and hold no damage reduction that shouldn't of already been on the boss (you weren't the only tank). You had no reason to put diseases.

No. The goal is mitigation or avoidance, not DPS. Please stop trying to twist my words, I've been very clear from the beginning.

But you WEREN'T clear at the beginning. You only stated that Expertise and Hit, two stats that go towards mitigation for a warrior, were worse than pure avoidance from a night elf racial, and that hit/expertise capping was wrong because you shouldn't rely on mitigation and instead should rely on avoidance through gearing. I'm not twisting your words, they are in the post every time.

Originally Posted by Firebert

They hasten DS, so, they offer a percentage multiplier on mitigation.

Shield Slam and Revenge grant rage on hit, so, they offer a percentage multiplier on mitigation.
Haste reduces the cooldown of Crusader Strike, Judgement and Hammer of Wrath, thus more Holy Power, so, they offer a percentage multiplier on mitigation.
But, you disregard those and state that those are incorrect. Don't make me quote you on the avoidance build.

I clearly state that the other tank could apply Weakened Blows. As for Chilblains, why are you try to slow non-slowable or nonmoving targets? (Gara'jal can't be slowed, adds in shadow realm don't move). So, yes? You got me on Chilblains, I agree, though.

Originally Posted by Firebert

No, I put diseases up for damage reduction. See above.

Weakened Blows is 10% physical damage. Everything in the shadow realm is magic. As for Chilblains, see above.

But you WEREN'T clear at the beginning. You only stated that Expertise and Hit, two stats that go towards mitigation for a warrior, were worse than pure avoidance from a night elf racial, and that not hit/expertise capping was wrong because you shouldn't rely on mitigation and instead should rely on avoidance through gearing. I'm not twisting your words, they are in the post every time.

I believe you're confused.

Parry is avoidance. Dodge is avoidance. Block is mitigation. Expertise and Hit are DPS stats.

Originally Posted by Recke

Shield Slam and Revenge grant rage on hit, so, they offer a percentage multiplier on mitigation.

They're balanced around no hit. Taking DPS stats to make them hit more often

Originally Posted by Recke

Haste reduces the cooldown of Crusader Strike, Judgement and Hammer of Wrath, thus more Holy Power, so, they offer a percentage multiplier on mitigation.

Except that the power of that is equivalent to Haste on a DK.

Originally Posted by Recke

I clearly state that the other tank could apply Weakened Blows.

I don't want to rely on the other tank. Having it refreshed hurts no-one.

Originally Posted by Recke

As for Chilblains, why are you try to slow non-slowable or nonmoving targets? (Gara'jal can't be slowed, adds in shadow realm don't move). So, yes? You got me on Chilblains, I agree, though.

Chilblains makes IT's plague worth using for its kiting utility, which is useful on other fights.

Originally Posted by Recke

Weakened Blows is 10% physical damage. Everything in the shadow realm is magic. As for Chilblains, see above.

Wow. I'm pretty sure that you've all scared the poor guy that asked the original question off. I'd even forgive him if he turned his back on the warrior altogether and re-rolled a filthy mage after all this. Sooo... how about those Knicks?