my RTW plans changed dramatically earlier this year, i was planning for 2013 in Africa, after spending some time with Chris Scott personally, all his advise was avoid west africa, mainly french speaking areas for the near future, and now there are new problems in the north east and arab states, i would research this area very carefully, and be aware that things can change on a daily basis, sometimes hourly.

6-9 months for Trans-Africa AND Europe to Australia is too short IMO. Doesn't mean it could not be done, just saying that personally I would get more time, or cut the trip shorter.

My Europe to Oz trip was 6 months, 34 thousand road kms, and I remember thinking that 8-9 months for that route would have been perfect for me. (note, that this trip was 180 kms per each day on average - and roads were not so bad generally).

Hello everyone. Sorry I've been away for a while. I'm back more or less now.

First. Thank you to everyone for helping so far!

Second. Bike. I just got a 1997 DR350SE that will hopefully be sufficient for the trip after various modifications. Also I need to learn how to do a bunch of maintenance and repairs in case I'm stuck in the boonies and need to fix the bike. Not to mention learning how to ride! Just got my permit a week ago!

Third. Route Research. I've done more research and am cutting Africa out of the trip. I think the board is correct in saying I plan on doing all of that too quickly. I'm hoping to do Melbourne to Madrid, ~43,400 kms, in about 5 months which works out to ~290 kms/day. That's probably fast for Bali to Turkey, but I think Turkey to Madrid, as well as Australia will be significantly faster thus averaging out.

Forth. Budgeting. I think $40/day is adequate for daily travel expenses. That works out to U$6,000 for 150 days. I plan on camping a lot and being frugal. Also there are five planned plane/boat rides (in yellow on the map) plus shipping the bike (~U$9,000), a carnet (~U$400?), border fees ($U1,000?), repairs/parts ($1000?), etc. for a grand total of $17,400. Does that sound appropriate?

Fifth. Departure date. I think I should leave from Melbourne in early February (of 2015 in case you were wondering). The wether there should be in the 50F - 75F range and that should theoretically put me in Scandinavia in May/June where the weather should be in the 40F - 70F range. The places in between should be shifting seasons into nicer temperatures as I go through them. Does that sound ok? Did I miss something on this part?

Second. Bike. I just got a 1997 DR350SE that will hopefully be sufficient for the trip after various modifications. Also I need to learn how to do a bunch of maintenance and repairs in case I'm stuck in the boonies and need to fix the bike. Not to mention learning how to ride! Just got my permit a week ago!

Third. Route Research. I've done more research and am cutting Africa out of the trip. I think the board is correct in saying I plan on doing all of that too quickly. I'm hoping to do Melbourne to Madrid, ~43,400 kms, in about 5 months which works out to ~290 kms/day. That's probably fast for Bali to Turkey, but I think Turkey to Madrid, as well as Australia will be significantly faster thus averaging out.

The DR650 is a proven overlander.

Your route looks mostly do-able... though I´ve never heard anybody shipping vehicles out of Vietnam (except those who have worked there maybe). And shipping to somewhere in Central Asia from North India, that could be a tall order. Probably will be less headache, and in the end cheaper, too, to ride to Pakistan, head north, and arrange the guide to get into China, and then cross to Kyrgyzstan overland.

The other option to go overland between India and Europe is to head west across Pakistan, and cross into Iran. That one does not necessitate you to get your vehicle into China, but visa issues, and security situation in western Pakistan could be the stumbling blocks (at least right now, but if you set off in -15, then it could be very different).

290 kms ON AVERAGE is tough in my view. Especially in Asia. And shippings, bordercrossings, applying for visas etc., tend to take some time no matter how smoothly everything goes. It may be do-able in Oz or Europe, but will be pushing it in most parts of Asia. Besides, there´s a million things to see & do along the way, not a good idea to be in a hurry (and to do 290/day every day start to finish, you WILL be in a hurry).

Forth. Budgeting. I think $40/day is adequate for daily travel expenses. That works out to U$6,000 for 150 days. I plan on camping a lot and being frugal. Also there are five planned plane/boat rides (in yellow on the map) plus shipping the bike (~U$9,000), a carnet (~U$400?), border fees ($U1,000?), repairs/parts ($1000?), etc. for a grand total of $17,400. Does that sound

Feel free to add any suggestions you have. I'm all ears!

You are smoking some good stuff if you think 17400 is going to cover. Fuel alone is going to cost you $8+ gallon and a friend past just short of $20/gal in several places in remote Africa...you can only haul so much fuel and you have to pay whatever they want to charge you. Add in payments (extortion) to border agents, local police, flying in needed repairs, dont see anything listed for your airfare, etc, etc. Realist budget without doing all the math $40000-50000.

Normally costs depend very much on the region. Much of Asia, particularly the south and southeast, are dirt cheap compared to Europe or Oz. Spend most of the time there, but just fast forward across Europe & Oz following the shortest possible route would be my plan to keep the costs down. Shipping is another important area, where you can spend or save money, so do your homework well, it'll be worth it.

Please do not pay attention to the last post by the noob. His adverse statement of a necessary $40k-$50k budget is absolutely ludicrous. (NEUB)

Like Pecha72 has said above me, in my travel experience I have earmarked budgets per time spent in local regions. I.E. Alaska/Canada is more expensive then the mainland US, which is more expensive than Mexico, which is is more expensive then Central America, so on and so forth. More time spent in expensive places = higher daily budget and vice versa.

Dig deep and get into the research as much as possible. Obviously you are well over a year away from your stated departure date (which you moved back a bit already?) and thus have time to read and read and read. Temps in February in Melbourne are generaly higher than 75F. Thats the end of summer here in Australia. But that's irrelevant.

Fuel in Australia is around $1.40/liter at the moment. i.e $5.35/gallon. Turkey= $10/gallon. I've got no idea about Indonesia, any parts of Asia, or the rest of Europe, but you can plan on damn near doubling your fuel costs in Europe as compared to the US. Food is expensive in many places, cheap in others. Save when you can, spend when you have to. Weather, like it or not, will impact your travel plans, planned destinations for the days travel, likelyhood of camping (pissing rain somewhere in Asia? 100*F heat in Australia).

Your bike will get around 55-60mpg (don't be optomistic about fuel consumption, plan for the worst man, it will save you time and money). You'll be loaded with gear even though you'll travel lightly. If you do 290kms (call it 300km or 180miles) a day, you're burning 3 gallons of gas at 60mpg. $16/day in Australia. $30/day in Turkey. Trying to feed yourself and cover misc. things on $24/day in Australia will be tough as nails. Nigh impossible on $10/day in Turkey. IF you can find a free place to sleep.... maybel you'll be inside your budget...

Shipping your bike to Australia will cost you more than you expect. Shipping from the west coast of the US to Sydney/Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth (doesn't really matter) will cost you roughly $600-$1000 JUST TO LEAVE THE US. Wharf fees, Customs fees, AQIS (Australian Quarintine) Fees, Cleaning fees will cost you another $1000+- on the Australian side. You can do it cheaper, but time is your enemy, you might have to wait a few months for the right shipment to leave the states that can add your bike for cheap, and save you money. How do I know? I manage an Australian based import company that imports US boats/campers/motorcycles, etc. So, roughly $1500 to get your bike to Australia. $1200 for a one way ticket from the east coast. You're at $2500 already. I don't know what the rest of your flights will cost ($400-$500?) or the ferries. You'll have to figure that out.

Do your research on the Carnet, it'll easily cost you a thousand dollars ($1,000). You've got a cheap bike, which will lower the deposit required, but it's still not cheap.

Your border fees estimate is probably pretty close. Australia won't cost you any money, but I'm not sure about the rest. You won't be paying much in Europe, but the "Stans", Russia, Georgia, Turkey, will stick you for some bucks to be certain. Your map shows you entering Pakistan? Did you find an easy way to get a Pakistani visa? If so, tell me, I want to know (for real, I want to know).

If you don't crash, you won't have much repairing to do to your DR350. Very reliable, air cooled, bikes. Start with a clean, well prepared bike, and you'll end with a well used, still in good shape, well prepared bike. However, you're planning on over 26k miles. That's a LEAST 3, probably 4 rear tires. And at LEAST 3 front tires. You'll be paying $100 for each of those 6 tires (AT LEAST). You'll have 8 oil changes at 3k mile intervals. 4 oil filters if you skimp and only switch every other. You'll have to buy a chain half way through, or near the end at least. That's an easy $1000 all said; tires, oil, filters, chain. Probably closer to $1,500 in all honesty.

It seems like you've landed pretty well on the mark. You might even come out under this proposed budget if you save on shipping costs/flights. However, this does not lead ANY room in the budget for incidentals or tourist activities, or alcohol, or meals out with friends. This doesn't cover any new clothing on the trip. Replacement costs for any items lost or stolen. What if your camera breaks dude. You will definitely want a new one. You haven't taken into consideration your motorcycle gear either. Boots, Pants, Jacket, Gloves Helmet. ATGATT. All the gear all the time. Is that in your budget, or is that a pre trip expense not to be considered for these purposes? Your new to you DR350 will make the trip without a hassle. Buy a 4gallon Clarke tank, hand guards, a new seat, and some throw over soft luggage, and you'll be fine.

I rode 8 months, from Seattle to Argentina. My average was 100mile a day WHEN I was riding. 160km/day. Your average of 290km/day is going to kick your ass and take your name (unless your ruthless, in which case it won't matter at all). Remember, you can sit in India somewhere for a week and spend less than $70 and ride nowhere at all. That same week in Australia will cost you $500+ Are you on a strict timeframe? If not, why not travel until the money runs out instead? I'd be looking at 7 months time.

In fact, I am planning 9-12 months for the same journey. Australia to Europe. After 3 months in Australia ramming around. And another 3 months to descend into Africa (if I feel like it).

Neub...you must be travelling in a rolls royce with a butler in tow...you obviously don't get out much and have friends who like the high life and pay over the odds for everything - $20 for gas...here's a report from two years ago i dont think gas has increased by over 100% anywhere on this list LINK but maybe you know better

as for shipping look into riding in Thailand and flying out of Bangkok to Kathmandu Nepal...its a standard route, used by loads of people and costs about $1250 - link

Your route looks mostly do-able... though I´ve never heard anybody shipping vehicles out of Vietnam (except those who have worked there maybe). And shipping to somewhere in Central Asia from North India, that could be a tall order. Probably will be less headache, and in the end cheaper, too, to ride to Pakistan, head north, and arrange the guide to get into China, and then cross to Kyrgyzstan overland.

The other option to go overland between India and Europe is to head west across Pakistan, and cross into Iran. That one does not necessitate you to get your vehicle into China, but visa issues, and security situation in western Pakistan could be the stumbling blocks (at least right now, but if you set off in -15, then it could be very different).

290 kms ON AVERAGE is tough in my view. Especially in Asia. And shippings, bordercrossings, applying for visas etc., tend to take some time no matter how smoothly everything goes. It may be do-able in Oz or Europe, but will be pushing it in most parts of Asia. Besides, there´s a million things to see & do along the way, not a good idea to be in a hurry (and to do 290/day every day start to finish, you WILL be in a hurry).

Surely someone has shipped a bike out Ha Noi to Kathmandu? If it proves to be impossible I might decide to reroute the Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam area some how to end up in Bangkok to fly to Kathmandu (as rtwpaul suggested). Maybe make a circle of the area.

I hear you about the daily averages. I'd like to see as much as possible, but I don't want to just rush through everything. I want to see the people and explore and absorb the cultures. Not just cruse through as fast as possible. I'll be learning more as I ride more and gain experience. Perhaps I'll change the route again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Like Pecha72 has said above me, in my travel experience I have earmarked budgets per time spent in local regions. I.E. Alaska/Canada is more expensive then the mainland US, which is more expensive than Mexico, which is is more expensive then Central America, so on and so forth. More time spent in expensive places = higher daily budget and vice versa.

I actually am not sure how much time I plan on spending in Europe. I assume because of road quality as well as a general sense of hustle from the locals (at least compared to some other countries), things will generally work decently and pretty much on schedule. Not everywhere obviously, but in general Europe is more cognizant of time than say India. That said, I assume it'll be easier to get daily activities done and travel faster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Dig deep and get into the research as much as possible. Obviously you are well over a year away from your stated departure date (which you moved back a bit already?) and thus have time to read and read and read. Temps in February in Melbourne are generaly higher than 75F. Thats the end of summer here in Australia. But that's irrelevant.

You're correct. I have moved it back. I'd be riding right into the European winter by leaving in June/July 2014 and also probably not have enough experience and money saved. As long as the temps aren't freezing I'll probably be ok. I used to live in Arizona and Nicaragua and it gets hot both places to say the least.

I absolutely plan on camping, camping, camping. And eating cheaply. Except for splurging on good local cuisine occasionally. But none or limited fast-food type meals.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Your bike will get around 55-60mpg (don't be optomistic about fuel consumption, plan for the worst man, it will save you time and money). You'll be loaded with gear even though you'll travel lightly. If you do 290kms (call it 300km or 180miles) a day, you're burning 3 gallons of gas at 60mpg. $16/day in Australia. $30/day in Turkey. Trying to feed yourself and cover misc. things on $24/day in Australia will be tough as nails. Nigh impossible on $10/day in Turkey. IF you can find a free place to sleep.... maybel you'll be inside your budget...

Those are good calculations to have in my head... breaking it down like that. As you camp... $24 a day in Oz is definitely doable. A couple of years ago I went to Japan and spent $600 in 14 days including ~$20/night on hostels... so $22/day for food, misc, touristy stuff, etc. And Japan is expensive. I'm pretty confident I can eat cheaply, but I don't want to kid myself on expenses and be caught off guard. More research yet!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Shipping your bike to Australia will cost you more than you expect. Shipping from the west coast of the US to Sydney/Melbourne/Adelaide/Perth (doesn't really matter) will cost you roughly $600-$1000 JUST TO LEAVE THE US. Wharf fees, Customs fees, AQIS (Australian Quarintine) Fees, Cleaning fees will cost you another $1000+- on the Australian side. You can do it cheaper, but time is your enemy, you might have to wait a few months for the right shipment to leave the states that can add your bike for cheap, and save you money. How do I know? I manage an Australian based import company that imports US boats/campers/motorcycles, etc. So, roughly $1500 to get your bike to Australia. $1200 for a one way ticket from the east coast. You're at $2500 already. I don't know what the rest of your flights will cost ($400-$500?) or the ferries. You'll have to figure that out.

That's actually exactly what I budget to get to Australia as well. $2500. I could save I'm sure if I got lucky on prices, but I'm not counting on that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Do your research on the Carnet, it'll easily cost you a thousand dollars ($1,000). You've got a cheap bike, which will lower the deposit required, but it's still not cheap.

I just tried tonight and didn't find too much about it. AAA referred to the Canadian site and I don't think a Canadian Carnet is what I need. I'm from the US. I could be wrong. More research again needed. Thoughts here? Can I use a carnet from Canadian authorities? I feel like this should be procured by officials from one's own country.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Your border fees estimate is probably pretty close. Australia won't cost you any money, but I'm not sure about the rest. You won't be paying much in Europe, but the "Stans", Russia, Georgia, Turkey, will stick you for some bucks to be certain. Your map shows you entering Pakistan? Did you find an easy way to get a Pakistani visa? If so, tell me, I want to know (for real, I want to know).

Sadly, I'm not planning on entering Pakistan. I was planning on flying from Leh, India (in Jammu and Kashmir) to Dushanbe, Tajikistan, but upon closer inspection there are no flights from Leh to Dushanbe. At least not currently. This puts a crimp in things until a solution is found. More research needed. I really want to see Jammu and Kashmir, but I don't want to ride up there and then have to ride back to New Delhi for a flight. Thoughts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

Where are we now? Oh. $17,900.

It seems like you've landed pretty well on the mark. You might even come out under this proposed budget if you save on shipping costs/flights. However, this does not lead ANY room in the budget for incidentals or tourist activities, or alcohol, or meals out with friends. This doesn't cover any new clothing on the trip. Replacement costs for any items lost or stolen. What if your camera breaks dude. You will definitely want a new one. You haven't taken into consideration your motorcycle gear either. Boots, Pants, Jacket, Gloves Helmet. ATGATT. All the gear all the time. Is that in your budget, or is that a pre trip expense not to be considered for these purposes? Your new to you DR350 will make the trip without a hassle. Buy a 4gallon Clarke tank, hand guards, a new seat, and some throw over soft luggage, and you'll be fine.

All of the bike upgrades will be done prior to leaving and aren't being added to the actual traveling budget. Nor is gear. But things will break so I need to add some $$'s to that area. Broken camera? Empty wallet. lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigalsmith101

I rode 8 months, from Seattle to Argentina. My average was 100mile a day WHEN I was riding. 160km/day. Your average of 290km/day is going to kick your ass and take your name (unless your ruthless, in which case it won't matter at all). Remember, you can sit in India somewhere for a week and spend less than $70 and ride nowhere at all. That same week in Australia will cost you $500+ Are you on a strict timeframe? If not, why not travel until the money runs out instead? I'd be looking at 7 months time.

I plan on being ruthless for Australia and most of Europe. Long days - like 8 hours of riding. I'll have a Corbin seat. And be ruthless. I'm not on a strict timeframe, but 5 months will be a big test. I have a real estate business that runs itself pretty well. Just went to South Africa for 5 weeks with basically zero problems back home. No motorcycle in SA though. But by then, it should be bigger and managed by other people making it theoretically easier to be gone for longer periods.

Vietnam used to be almost closed for foreign vehicles, the ability to cross at one particular border station is just months old, and I'm hoping its not just some mistake, that they will correct once they find it out.

So I doubt there are many shipments out of Hanoi. I'm sure it COULD be arranged, but price could be a issue, and Bangkok-Kathmandu is about 700-1000 usd for a bike, so could make more sense to go to Bangkok. In fact your shipment could well get routed via BKK anyway. Particularly airfreight moves most cost-efficiently, when you use the big hubs, and places accessible by direct flights from these hubs.

I'd like to see as much as possible, but I don't want to just rush through everything. I want to see the people and explore and absorb the cultures. Not just cruse through as fast as possible. I'll be learning more as I ride more and gain experience. Perhaps I'll change the route again.

Does not suit what you said when you said this:

Quote:

I plan on being ruthless for Australia and most of Europe. Long days - like 8 hours of riding. I'll have a Corbin seat. And be ruthless. I'm not on a strict timeframe, but 5 months will be a big test.

Vietnam used to be almost closed for foreign vehicles, the ability to cross at one particular border station is just months old, and I'm hoping its not just some mistake, that they will correct once they find it out.

So I doubt there are many shipments out of Hanoi. I'm sure it COULD be arranged, but price could be a issue, and Bangkok-Kathmandu is about 700-1000 usd for a bike, so could make more sense to go to Bangkok. In fact your shipment could well get routed via BKK anyway. Particularly airfreight moves most cost-efficiently, when you use the big hubs, and places accessible by direct flights from these hubs.

I think this route through Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and back into Thailand will work (assuming multi-entry visas work). Basically just going the opposite direction I had proposed. Not an issue. I didn't have any reason to go the way I had originally planned. This route is about 5600km, which is maybe a little longer than the other way, but not by much. This alleviates the no shipping out of Vietnam issue, but still allows me to travel through much of the area. If I read up a bunch on Vietnam, maybe I'll jump across the border for a bit without my bike. It's all possible.

Also I've been rethinking the India to Tajikistan route, which is about 9600km. Fly into Nepal, ride around India, then go up into Jammu and Kashmir on the eastern side of the area then come down the western side, going through Jammu, Srinagar, Kargil and Leh all the way to New Delhi were I can catch a flight to Dushanbe, Tajikistan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by I.Will.Ride.On.Mars
I'd like to see as much as possible, but I don't want to just rush through everything. I want to see the people and explore and absorb the cultures. Not just cruse through as fast as possible. I'll be learning more as I ride more and gain experience. Perhaps I'll change the route again.

Does not suit what you said when you said this:
Quote:
I plan on being ruthless for Australia and most of Europe. Long days - like 8 hours of riding. I'll have a Corbin seat. And be ruthless. I'm not on a strict timeframe, but 5 months will be a big test.
Pick and choose man. You can't have both.

Ah yes, you're correct. I can't rush through it all and still absorb it all. To be fair though, there are only a few things I'm set on seeing in Australia (right now anyways) so going quickly through there isn't as big a deal. Europe has more I'm interested in seeing, but not as much as SE Asia/Stans. I don't plan on rushing through SE Asia/Stans. There are only three things that can change - Money, Time, and Distance. If there is an issue with one of those it'll affect the trip and I'll adjust accordingly. But yes, you're correct. Indeed I can't have it both ways.

I find it amusing that in the 9 months of "planning and preparation", you only got a bike last week and you still don't know how much the visas and border crossing will run you even though it is all listed on visa websites, and didn't even look up the exact Carnet cost on the Carnet website. No offense, but at this pace you're going to be planning this trip forever.

The bottom line is that the world is not that difficult to travel. There are pretty good roads everywhere and it's easy to figure out how to get to places once you're in the area. It's much easier than trying to search the Internet for random outdated anecdotal information. If you run into issues on the road, then you can post to see what alternatives you have...

The best thing to do is to just go. Your $17K may last you till Nepal and you fly home, or maybe it lasts you till Turkey and you fly home. Or maybe it lasts you till your destination and you fly home. It's going to be awesome no matter how far you get. Not sure what the point is in trying to cover the earth in one giant trip. You have your life ahead of you. You can do more than one trip, you know... Doing shorter trips - if it ends up being shorter - just gives you a better idea of how you personally like to travel and how much it will cost you and it will help you plan future trips.

Camping is great and all, but it really depends on the region. It sucks being in Paris only to be forced out to some crummy suburban highway campground and not experiencing the nightlife. It sucks going to the supermarket and not trying all the local specialties. Are you really going to pull up to Louvre museum and just admire it from outside to save $15? Because everything is going to cost you money for access. In Africa, you can't even enter most national parks on a motorcycle. And Africa can be very expensive. Want to see the wild gorillas in Uganda? Last I checked, that was about $800 for a few hours. Want to see Victoria Falls during the full moon? That will be $50. All the developing countries know that tourism is big business and all the famous attractions you heard about are usually going to cost something - oftentimes, they will cost a lot.

Which leads me to my last point; Africa may end up being cheaper than Europe and also more interesting. Europe is interesting, but it's basically US with prettier buildings, different languages, and different foods... Trying to keep a strict budget in Europe will make you feel like a bum. In contrast, Africa is probably best done if you camp and it's actually a big positive. It will really enhance your experience. Take the Eastern route and don't feel obligated to circle around every continent. There are no prizes for circling continents.

I do think your route is pretty smart. You're moving from the easiest and safest places and working your way to the hardest and sketchiest (if you do end up riding Africa.) If you're gonna do it, this is a nice route. It will build up your confidence and travelling smarts.