I basically agree with Greg's analysis of Jacob's running. Just as a general point, however, I think it's important to point out that the old-school 'hard/easy' approach that has dominated American running programs for generations has been challenged by the Kenyan/Italian 'mostly moderate/hard' one. Even Hansons, which is basically Lydiard light, have a fair amount of moderate running (mixed in with recovery). The thing about intensity is to know why you're doing it, what sort of recovery it will require, and when it's best to do a particular kind of workout. Templates are good, but there's no sense doing the same workouts week to week.

If you come from a track background that's workout heavy, it's probable that you can handle 3 workouts a week, plus a long run. At least for part of the season. If you're ancient and fragile (like me) you need to be cautious. rbbmoose, maestro of the Moose Mug, ran several low-2:40s marathons even in his 50s. He did one workout and one long run a week, and the workout was never really fast -- usually HM-MP. His long runs were fairly fast. All the rest of his running was really slow -- 8:30ish. Volume averaged about 80 mpw.

There are lots of ways to do this.

Now, as for when and why: let's consider tempos, for example. Pfitz would say do a 5-7 mile tempo almost weekly, at 15k-HMP. I suggest developing a chain of workouts that expands your fitness in a variety of directions, but which puts a premium on endurance. Consider the following as an example of a 5-week cycle, just tempos:

12 miles w/20x1 min. on/off with 'on' at 10k-15k pace, 'off' at about a minute slower, so still not slow.

14 miles w/3x15 min. at paces starting between MP and HMP, cutting down each time, arriving somewhere between HMP-15k with 3 min. jog recoveries

11 w/6-7 miles at HMP

15 miles w/3 miles HMP + 5 miles easy + 3 miles HMP

14-16 miles w/ 1 hour to 10 miles at MP

Presumably, this would take someone with a bit of speed and work on their strength over time. A sequence like this leads somewhere, it has a rationale, and it introduces a variety of stimuli that nevertheless build on previous workouts so the body isn't just taking isolated workouts out of the blue.

Other dimensions of training can and should be viewed similarly.

Getting back to Jacob, it would be good to see some prior results in order to suggest specific training approaches once the sfx is healed (I haven't paid attention to this board in quite some time so I have missed a lot).

btw, Pfitz has a very good return to running from sfx program available online. Just google it.

jacob, you said that you suck at swimming. it seems that most runners share that sentiment. why not do something about it? swim every day until you are completely healed. you will get WAY better in probably one week, and after a few you will feel like a pro. just make sure you focus on quality, not quantity. doing long swims with poor form is much worse than short swims with good form. get a lesson or two, or watch some youtube videos. it will be a fun, exciting new experience and you can get distracted from running for a bit.

and if you don't like it, suck it up and keep doing it. nobody likes running at first either, and now look at us.

When I mentioned the racers this weekend, somehow I left Slammin off. Go Slammin! How's the taper madness treating you?

PiwiKiwi - I deleted you. Good luck in the half. You going to do a full this year? Also, looks like you're still appearing on the spreadsheet for now because of a bug in my system - image is only updated when I add or edit someone, not when I delete.

Dkggpeters - Do you use tinman as a coach, or just follow his philosophies?

A Muse - Great analysis as always. Those sound like Daniels style tempos. I pulled out my "Daniels Running Formula" book to compare Jacob's tempo paces with what he prescribes and I'd forgotten how awesome his tempo runs are. The Pfitz ones are so monotonous in comparison. I also love that he embeds tempo work into his long runs (similar to tinman dkggpeters?).

Jacob - You've got some awesome speed. I'm jealous of some of those workouts you're doing. If you can put together some consistent training you are going to fly. While you've got downtime over the next few weeks, you should read up on the training philosophies of some of the more respected coaches\ physiologists. I recommend Daniels Running Formula, but there are so many ways of doing this. Like A Muse said, Hansons might be closer to what you are already doing (they might tell you to back off the speed a bit, and keep the long run shorter if you are running it so hard).

Not to pile on Jacob too much,but adding my $0.02. Based on other's comments, my recovery pace is even more pedestrian. I try not to go under 9:00 pace on recovery runs and will slow it down even more (or even take a complete rest day) if I'm feeling particularly worn down. Why would I be so worn down? Because I'm hammering the tempo/interval/MP workouts. A recovery/moderate pace day or two in between and I'm ready to hammer the next. Ego is a tough thing to overcome, but on recovery days, I tell myself that if I'm not getting passed by pregnant women and old lady's with walkers, I'm running too fast (slight exaggeration with apologies to pregnant women and old ladies).

jacob, you said that you suck at swimming. it seems that most runners share that sentiment.

I used to wonder why this was, but then somebody pointed out that runners are so lean they don't have the body fat to float. I guess that's why triathletes wear wetsuits to aid buoyancy??

Totally true on the body fat. As one who typically gains/loses as much as 15 lbs. during/after training cycles, I have certainly felt that the fitter I get with my running, the more work it takes just to swim recreationally cuz I'm leaner. But the buoyancy of wetsuits is not what makes triathletes faster. It's the fact that they keep them from freezing that makes them faster!

Not to pile on Jacob too much,but adding my $0.02. Based on other's comments, my recovery pace is even more pedestrian. I try not to go under 9:00 pace on recovery runs and will slow it down even more (or even take a complete rest day) if I'm feeling particularly worn down. Why would I be so worn down? Because I'm hammering the tempo/interval/MP workouts. A recovery/moderate pace day or two in between and I'm ready to hammer the next. Ego is a tough thing to overcome, but on recovery days, I tell myself that if I'm not getting passed by pregnant women and old lady's with walkers, I'm running too fast (slight exaggeration with apologies to pregnant women and old ladies).

You also don't need to hammer your quality workouts. They can be ran hard but you can have reserves and should be able to do more. It works for me as I tend to control my efforts. Not saying that truely hammering them is wrong. I look for consistency and it is hard to stay consistent if you race your workouts.

I agee with this. I did a tailored Hansons plan for the marathon I did last Saturday. There were two workouts a week (in addition to the long run and three easy runs) -- an interval session and a marathon pace "tempo" type run. At first, I couldn't understand why I was instructed to run 400, 800, 1200, and 1600 intervals at 10K pace -- it seemed too easy. And as the intervals got longer (for example, 2x3 miles), the pace slowed even further to half-marathon pace. But looking back, I understand that running those intervals at 3K pace would have broke me down.

Jacob -- in addition to the books recommended above, all of which are great, I also recommend Luke Humphrey's Hansons Marathon Method book (it was released last fall). Full disclosure: I use Luke as a coach through Hansons Coaching Services. The book does a nice job explaining why running too fast too often can be harmful and why easy running days are important. The book also includes suggested paces for all types of runs, which may be helpful.

Not to pile on Jacob too much,but adding my $0.02. Based on other's comments, my recovery pace is even more pedestrian. I try not to go under 9:00 pace on recovery runs and will slow it down even more (or even take a complete rest day) if I'm feeling particularly worn down. Why would I be so worn down? Because I'm hammering the tempo/interval/MP workouts. A recovery/moderate pace day or two in between and I'm ready to hammer the next. Ego is a tough thing to overcome, but on recovery days, I tell myself that if I'm not getting passed by pregnant women and old lady's with walkers, I'm running too fast (slight exaggeration with apologies to pregnant women and old ladies).

You also don't need to hammer your quality workouts. They can be ran hard but you can have reserves and should be able to do more. It works for me as I tend to control my efforts. Not saying that truely hammering them is wrong. I look for consistency and it is hard to stay consistent if you race your workouts.

I agree with what you said. Perhaps I should clarify. By "hammer" I didn't mean race the quality workouts but rather that, because one is not running hard every day, one is able to complete the quality miles at the prescribed pace, getting both the intended physiological benefit as well as the psychological benefit of not having to bail on the workout because one was too worn out.

WhatTheHell - I agree. One of the reasons I run my recovery runs so slow is because of fear of the upcoming workouts. E.g. for the three days before a pfitz mp run, I'd be terrified of going faster than 8:30.

amuse great advice thanks... definitely going to do more of those workouts that you mention in your five week example.... not saying I am really fast but my marathon PR is not very close to what some of my shorter races "predict"

I am pacing the 3:35 group at a small marathon in MI (Midland) on May 19th... I ran 12 today which is the longest I have run since Boston but I'm hoping the group I am running with will help with some motivation!!!

Jacob hope you get healthy as soon as possible.... most of us have made that same mistake.

A Muse: It’s quite eye-opening to hear of all the different training styles. Clearly, I have not been thinking enough about my training style. That being said, there certainly is value to going out for a run of a specified length without having to constantly check your pace against a watch.

My last marathon was a 2:59:52 after a really good base and 8 weeks of this sort of schedule:

Mon: 6-7 @ 6:50

Tue: 5-8 @ 6:24

Wed: 9 on elliptical

Thu: 7-10 @ 6:40

Fri: 9 on elliptical

Sat: 16-20 @ 7:10

Sun: rest

So, you can see that what I’ve changed is added more mileage to Monday and Tuesday and changed from elliptical running to slow running on pavement. Perhaps it was this change from the elliptical, coupled with the higher mileage, that didn’t give my body time to adjust.

Uni: I like the spirit. I agree and I’ll take this time as an opportunity to get better and free-style.

dkggpeters: I think you’re right. I was doing two quality sessions and then trying to make my long run a quality session as well without giving myself any time to recover. I’m not yet sure what I’m going to do about SF. If it’s going to jeopardize my recovery, then I won’t do it. But I might recover quickly enough to jog it. I’m going to take my recovery slowly and see how I feel.

Frank2000: I’ll definitely shop around and look at some plans. I’ve probably suffered a bit from customizing my schedules too much, but I appreciate the compliment!

ChicagoJP: I’ll take a look at Luke Humphrey’s book and I appreciate the disclosure.

Chicago JP - I didn't know you were a Hanson guy. I've been thinking about trying that out. What were your long runs like? Also, can you post a typical week from about 2 months before the marathon?

Sure. I put three different weeks below (two weeks approx. 2 months out from the marathon, and one week approx. 1 month out from the marathon). The program I did was not the one out of the book, which peaks at a 16 mile long run. The tailored programs through Hansons Coaching Services may have you do longer runs based on the percentage of weekly mileage those long runs would take up.

I decided to go the coaching route because I had a foot injury in December and wanted to get help with how to build up miles without reinjuring myself. It turned out to be a good decision as I had zero injury problems throughout the marathon buildup.

I usually averaged around 7:25 per mile for my long runs (the ones without marathon pace miles at the end). I did the easy runs at around 8 minutes per mile, but was told never to go faster than 7:42 per mile for those runs.

PiwiKiwi - I deleted you. Good luck in the half. You going to do a full this year? Also, looks like you're still appearing on the spreadsheet for now because of a bug in my system - image is only updated when I add or edit someone, not when I delete.

Thanks Frank. Im hopefully looking at Auckland NZ on Nov 3rd. I will confirm closer but for now just a lurker on here.

When I mentioned the racers this weekend, somehow I left Slammin off. Go Slammin! How's the taper madness treating you?

Frank - Its's not like I get any respect around here anyway. so it doesnt surprise me. Taper is going lousy, I'm eating like a bear just before hibernation, and I just found out someone I really dislike is running the race. I may just treat him like Haile and give him the Machuka special. Hopefully I dont have to worry about him as he is much faster.

GregTR - I thought you were discouraging Elgunn, my mistake.

Unireed - first picture was from the summer before I ever started marathon training, I was between 170 and 175, I dropped to 165 for my first marathon in Nov, and will be 165 again I was actually 155 before the taper right now im 162. I hope to add 3 lbs of belly fat by then.So whether you think my picture is 15 years old or 10 years old my abs will always look like im 25.

For those who missed it, I self censored because it was self centered but then again I work hard.

When I mentioned the racers this weekend, somehow I left Slammin off. Go Slammin! How's the taper madness treating you?

Frank - Its's not like I get any respect around here anyway. so it doesnt surprise me. Taper is going lousy, I'm eating like a bear just before hibernation, and I just found out someone I really dislike is running the race. I may just treat him like Haile and give him the Machuka special. Hopefully I dont have to worry about him as he is much faster.

GregTR - I thought you were discouraging Elgunn, my mistake.

Unireed - first picture was from the summer before I ever started marathon training, I was between 170 and 175, I dropped to 165 for my first marathon in Nov, and will be 165 again I was actually 155 before the taper right now im 162. I hope to add 3 lbs of belly fat by then.So whether you think my picture is 15 years old or 10 years old my abs will always look like im 25.

For those who missed it, I self censored because it was self centered but then again I work hard.

Mikkey , If you want it, I'll put it back.

Mmmmm, I might have to show up and watch the race on Sunday then. No fisticuffs!

Slammin' I have a feeling you're BS-ing us with all this talk of being sick, overeating, being sad about the recent death of your hamster, etc. etc...

I know you're gearing up to take it to the hilt on Sunday - and that's what I goddamn expect. Go kill it, man!

Ds_modI was sick with flu see my post below on page 15. I was schedule to max out at 120 that week, I lost 35 miles scheduled for fri and sat.

April 15, 2013 12:12 AM

Mon 9 miles @ nightTue 7 miles @ lunch, 13 miles @ nightWed 7 miles in morning, 13 miles @ nightThu 7 miles in morning, 7 miles @ nightFri sick with flu - no runningSat sick with flu - no runningSun 22 miles easy 2.5 miles at MP, was supposed to do 4 @ MP but its hard coming back from the flu.85 miles week

Rest assure, I am more competitor than a babbling fool. I will take out some personal frustration on the race. On a personal note I had the worst news you could hear, not willing to go into it. Maybe I will talk about it after the race. That's really what's made me sick the past few weeks.

A Muse: It’s quite eye-opening to hear of all the different training styles. Clearly, I have not been thinking enough about my training style. That being said, there certainly is value to going out for a run of a specified length without having to constantly check your pace against a watch.

My last marathon was a 2:59:52 after a really good base and 8 weeks of this sort of schedule:

Mon: 6-7 @ 6:50

Tue: 5-8 @ 6:24

Wed: 9 on elliptical

Thu: 7-10 @ 6:40

Fri: 9 on elliptical

Sat: 16-20 @ 7:10

Sun: rest

So, you can see that what I’ve changed is added more mileage to Monday and Tuesday and changed from elliptical running to slow running on pavement. Perhaps it was this change from the elliptical, coupled with the higher mileage, that didn’t give my body time to adjust.

Uni: I like the spirit. I agree and I’ll take this time as an opportunity to get better and free-style.

dkggpeters: I think you’re right. I was doing two quality sessions and then trying to make my long run a quality session as well without giving myself any time to recover. I’m not yet sure what I’m going to do about SF. If it’s going to jeopardize my recovery, then I won’t do it. But I might recover quickly enough to jog it. I’m going to take my recovery slowly and see how I feel.

Frank2000: I’ll definitely shop around and look at some plans. I’ve probably suffered a bit from customizing my schedules too much, but I appreciate the compliment!

ChicagoJP: I’ll take a look at Luke Humphrey’s book and I appreciate the disclosure.

Jacob- With a 2:59 marathon PR, those seen like very fast training times that may indicate you leaving too much in training and not having enough left for race day. My typical easy day is anywhere from 7:30-8:05, but usually close to 7:45. Even when I was younger and did extremely low mileage (25wk) I got a stress fracture from running everything very fast, 6:50 or under. I would guess that by just slowing things down and only pushing the hard days, you should be able to better avoid future stress fractures.

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for awhile and was hoping to finally join in. I ran my first sub-3 marathon this past fall (2:58:52). I plan on racing Chicago this fall with a goal of 2:54 - to be adjusted based on how training is going.

I have a question for y'all. I broke my pinky toe a week ago when I accidentally walked into a coffee table. I've had some success with taping it and continuing to run but have had to back off the miles. Anyone have experience and/or advice with running on a broken toe?

A Muse: It’s quite eye-opening to hear of all the different training styles. Clearly, I have not been thinking enough about my training style. That being said, there certainly is value to going out for a run of a specified length without having to constantly check your pace against a watch.

My last marathon was a 2:59:52 after a really good base and 8 weeks of this sort of schedule:

Mon: 6-7 @ 6:50

Tue: 5-8 @ 6:24

Wed: 9 on elliptical

Thu: 7-10 @ 6:40

Fri: 9 on elliptical

Sat: 16-20 @ 7:10

Sun: rest

So, you can see that what I’ve changed is added more mileage to Monday and Tuesday and changed from elliptical running to slow running on pavement. Perhaps it was this change from the elliptical, coupled with the higher mileage, that didn’t give my body time to adjust.

Uni: I like the spirit. I agree and I’ll take this time as an opportunity to get better and free-style.

dkggpeters: I think you’re right. I was doing two quality sessions and then trying to make my long run a quality session as well without giving myself any time to recover. I’m not yet sure what I’m going to do about SF. If it’s going to jeopardize my recovery, then I won’t do it. But I might recover quickly enough to jog it. I’m going to take my recovery slowly and see how I feel.

Frank2000: I’ll definitely shop around and look at some plans. I’ve probably suffered a bit from customizing my schedules too much, but I appreciate the compliment!

ChicagoJP: I’ll take a look at Luke Humphrey’s book and I appreciate the disclosure.

Jacob- With a 2:59 marathon PR, those seen like very fast training times that may indicate you leaving too much in training and not having enough left for race day. My typical easy day is anywhere from 7:30-8:05, but usually close to 7:45. Even when I was younger and did extremely low mileage (25wk) I got a stress fracture from running everything very fast, 6:50 or under. I would guess that by just slowing things down and only pushing the hard days, you should be able to better avoid future stress fractures.

Jacob - I think you're probably going too slow and should really pick up the pace. How can you expect to race fast if you don't run fast all the time??? Just kidding - I agree with the rest of the feedback and I would even say that I need to take a bit of that feedback myself. I've been fortunate enough not to have any injuries, but I typically run my easy days around a 7 minute pace (recovery days between 7:30-8) and I definitely had to quit on one or two quality workouts over the winter because I had nothing left in the tank. It's counter-intuitive to think that you need to run slower on some days to accomplish your goal of getting faster, but the system definitely works if you give it time. Good luck with your recovery - hope to hear from you back out on the roads soon!!

Welcome kaders and belated congratulations on your 2:58:52! That sucks about your toe. I broke my toe a few years ago on my parents boat - we were in the locks by the Children's Museum in Boston and I went to push off the side with my bare foot so we had a little clearance to start the engine back up. Suffice it to say, in the battle of my bare foot versus the hard wooden sides of the lock, my toe ended up the loser. The advice my doctor gave me at the time was to tape it up and stay off it for a couple weeks - no real way to treat a broken toe besides giving it time to heal. I would think the same is in order for you, with a couple weeks of rest. I would also suggest redecorating your living room. That coffee table sounds like a real menace.

I have no idea how you guys run so many mpw. Not only do I think my legs can't take more yet but neither can my poor wife and kids. Slammin, you hit 85 with 2 days off and sick?! Sorry to hear you are/were sick BTW.

How many years does it take to build that kind of mileage? I'm going to stick at 50 or less this year and see if I can remain uninjured. My calves are almost constantly sore as it is, but not injured. I wonder if it's my running style.

I also agree with everyone that most miles should be easy. Not that I follow that advice all the time but 2 quality sessions plus one long run are definitely the limit for my calves. And one of those quality sessions is a MP run for 6-10 miles, so not blazing speed.

kaders - welcome aboard. Sorry to hear about the injury. You must have been furious. Hopefully you can either run through it or find good cross training. Water running sounds miserable to me, but I know it can be a great way to maintain fitness through an injury. DrBart on one of the other threads mentioned that she did almost a complete marathon training cycle in the water.

There Is No Try - I wonder the same thing. This thread helps me when I realize that some of the fastest runners here have overcome injury issues themselves before eventually getting to the high miles needed to be really fast. dkggpeters, gregtr and runnerksmith are all blazing fast and have had injury problems in the past. Timmah and Slammin on the other hand are just wicked fast and I don't think they've had much of an injury history.

I'm trying to be really conservative with increasing my mileage, but still feel like I'm at the redline most of the time, either being injured or trying not to be. I'm trying to add 10 miles every 6 months, but that might even be pushing it. I have been running mostly short easy (5 miles at 8:30 - 9:00 pace) runs since Boston, and on my run yesterday my foot started hurting. By the end of the day I couldn't even walk without a severe limp. It's feeling better today, but I might take an unscheduled rest day even though I was only planning 4 miles at a grandma pace.

dkg -- you mind posting more info about your weight lifting routine (reps, amount of weight, etc). I do a pilates for runners class once a week which helped me stay injury free during my last training segment. Given the success I had with that type of core strengthening work, I'm interested in getting into the weight room twice a week to see if my running will improve further from getting globally stronger.

Hi everyone! I've been following this thread for awhile and was hoping to finally join in. I ran my first sub-3 marathon this past fall (2:58:52). I plan on racing Chicago this fall with a goal of 2:54 - to be adjusted based on how training is going.

I have a question for y'all. I broke my pinky toe a week ago when I accidentally walked into a coffee table. I've had some success with taping it and continuing to run but have had to back off the miles. Anyone have experience and/or advice with running on a broken toe?

Good luck to everyone racing this weekend!

kaders -- welcome. Sorry to hear about the toe. I had a toe issue back in December -- though not a broken toe. I didn't run for a few weeks to let it heal, which turned out to be a good decision. Given how far away Chicago is, you may be better served by taking a few weeks off. Also, I recommend seeing an orthopeadic surgeon who specializes in foot issues to see what he/she thinks about running through a broken toe (and to make sure the toe is actually broken).

Broken pinky toe sucks, but it's better than breaking any of your other toes. I taped (to adjacent toe) and was able to run 100-mile weeks. Make sure you ice after running. I had to adjust intensity and avoid hills, but I could handle volume. It was no more than a nuisance after a few weeks.

kaders, welcome aboard. It sounds like you can run on it. I have never broken a toe so I have no experience with it. My take is if my gait doesn't change and the pain is mild and goes away after a mile or two then I would continue to run.

The key part is gait not changing. I have tried to run through foot pain only to change my gait to the point where I screwed up my anterior tibial tendon instead. Oh and kaders, welcome and good luck with the healing process!

Another question for everyone on here, but background first. I am almost 4 weeks removed from a 3:02 effort. I ran my first hard effort (other than a few 5 or 6 mile sessions at MP) this morning, 9 w/5@6:19. I have been gradually building the miles back up, I was in the low 40's last week, should be in the low 50's this week. My legs are feeling good, with only the normal amount of in training soreness/stiffness. I am signed up for Grandma's June 22nd. I have also been following Dkggpeters advice on the strength training 2-3 times a week and it seems to be helping.

So here is the question: I am signed up for a local half this Saturday. Would it be a bad idea to attempt to run it all out, untapered, 4 weeks after a full? The start/finish is only a little over a mile from where I live and I am also entertaining the idea of jogging there, using it as an MP session and then jogging home, but even that is a tough effort only two days after my first post marathon hard effort. Thoughts?

kaders- Welcome and congrats on your sub-3! Bummer about the toe. I haven't experience that before, but maybe just run on it as long as there is no pain? If it is painful, better to rest it then have a long, lingering issue.

frank- While I totally get the desire to get your mileage up, I think 10 miles/wk every 6 months is even a bit quick. Of course, everyone is different, and it depends on how much intensity you are doing as well.

Like dkggpeters, over the years I have figured out what the usual suspects are when it comes to my injuries. Unless it is a total freak thing, I can usually catch something at the beginning and keep it from developing into something more serious. For me, I start feeling a strange tightness in my lower back on the right side when my hip flexors are getting too tight. I also get a pain in my foot in the same spot every time I need to switch out my shoes. I used to have chronic shin spits and/or stress fractures, and would have tight calf muscles constantly. Wearing orthodics, training smart, icing, and getting physical therapy/ART have all but eliminated those problems. While I am not always the greatest with stretching and core, especially now that I have a baby, I do prioritize getting regular treatment as a proactive way of preventing injuries.

A Muse: I was actually planning on running a bit faster in that 2:59:52 marathon, but two weeks before the marathon, I was out running and was mugged (punched in the jaw). I sustained a concussion and wasn’t able to run at all for that week. I think that that extended taper had some effect on my fitness.

I’m consistently hearing that I should be slowing down, doing only 2-3 quality sessions per week, and making my rest days more restful. I completely agree. I think part of the problem is that I’m from SF, so my runs there have always been about 45 seconds per mile slower than my runs on the East Coast. Having the opportunity to run fast doesn’t mean that I should. There, a quality run was ~ 7:20 per mile. I’ll slow myself down a bit, and I’ll put my rest days back on the elliptical to reduce the pounding. I’ve always calculated that 60 min on the elliptical equates to a 6 mile rest day.

Jacob - Wow, that's insane. You were just running along and someone slugs you?

runnerksmith - "I think 10 miles/wk every 6 months is even a bit quick". I don't disagree at all, and may slow down the increases for a bit, or at least cut back on quality for a while while I build a base. I think it's funny when the "experts" say you can add 10% per week. I wish.

dkggpeters - I used to think I had bad knees and could never run more than 20mpw. Losing a bit of weight and adding core exercises has helped a ton. I still have bad knees, but they don't seem to be too bothered by running. My knees hate carrying kids up and down stairs though.