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So guys, this thread is a bit long, so I thought I would just skip ahead and ask about whats the progress, if no one minds? I come from the Civ3 community, and we are trying to get the code too so I am wonderng how you guys are doing?

I have appointed myself to carry on the quest for the code since Eivind is rather busy at the moment. I am mainly gathering ideas at the other place: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthread.php?t=183163 so feel free to add your name to the petition still or post any comments or ideas. I still check this forum from time to time too.

I wouldn't suggest that anybody holds their breath until the code is released as there is chat about it being lost and even if it is not lost 2K games may not want to release it or may not be bothered about a few diehards, but it does no harm to ask and we could end up pleasantly surprised. Stranger things have happened

Funny story. We don't actually have the source code to the first two games, so we can't release it.

The Civ franchise changed hands a lot of times (Microprose to Hasbro, Hasbro to Infogrames/Atari, then to us), and if the source code was ever involved in any of those transactions, it never made its way to us. So even if we could release the source code (and I'm not sure we ever could), we don't have it to release anyway.

What is Jason's role at 2K? Did you hear this first hand or is this from an old post? Damn!

I suppose it could still be hanging around somewhere but if it is I would guess finding it via e-mail would be virtually impossible, let alone untangling the legal issues. Persuading a company to release the code was one thing, persuading a company to release a code they don't have is quite another

He's a Producer at 2K Games. Mercator asked him about the source code in a Civ Chronicles thread a couple of years ago. The link to it can be found earlier in this thread (and that arrow button in the quote box).

I am sorry to hear of the likely loss of the source code and dismayed by 2K's reaction to the proposal, but...c'est la vie.

That said, I wish to commend Eivind IV for his efforts, as well as all those others who did their part.

Also, I was impressed to hear of Brian Reynolds' participation in this; considering the caliber of the projects he's been involved in over the last few years, for him to take genuine interest in a petition to release the source code of his earlier work is...emotional.

It is indeed sad to hear that this company 2K Games is taking such a hard IP stand on such an old game. Not surprisingly, though, if they let their legal departments run their company.

Feel like chiming in to say this just goes to show how important it is to support the open source movement. Support the work of the Free Software Foundation and others who work to facilitate open, documented and freely distributable software :

If more companies adopted open licensing schemes we'll be much better off with future games. If more programmers didn't just write off any rights they have to the code they write, we'll be better off with future games. If more gamers and scenario designers begin to be concerned with what kinds of platforms they put their money, time and hard work into, we'll be better off with future games.

As long as games producers pursue rigidly IP-based business strategies, this mess will go on. Only the coders and gamers which add value to these business strategies can make them understand differently.

The fact you can still copywrite a game as old as CivII, is a misrepresentation of justice. There is no moral or ethical reason for something so old to not be in the public domain. The only way this can happen is through the immoral abuse of law.

Do not PM me with questions about modding. I will not answer. If you want help with something, start a thread on it, or post in a related existing thread.

Apparently it's so tedious to map out the code that it'd be less work to come out with a whole new game.

As for the copyright issue: the negative reaction from 2K was in reference to the Civ3 source code, not the Civ2 source code (although 2K did technically inherit it with the label). The latter is just a case of no one having a remaining copy of it.

It would be very tedious to reconstruct the Civ2 code - there would likely be no symbol names,
just addresses in assembly code created from the binaries. And even if you could run a tool to
de-compile the assembly into C/C++/C#, you'd still have a mess because no variable or routine
would have a meaningful name.

And then of course there are the legal issues...

I think Man is the most interesting form of insect life on Earth. Don't you? -- M.T. Martian