How about that! There was recently a lot of debate going on over on Wikipedia regarding original Castlevania composer Kinuyo Yamashita and whether or not she’s “notable” enough to deserve her own Wikipedia page. Her article, which used her recent appearance at Video Games Live in Japan and our own extensive interview here at OSV as sources, was deleted just yesterday after weeks of users battling on both sides.

This debate actually extends beyond just Yamashita, however, as the English Wikipedia pages for Shinji Hosoe and Ayako Saso have also been deleted under Wikipedia’s ridiculous “notability” and “reliable sources” policies. I encourage everyone to keep an eye out for other composer articles that may be in danger, as it looks like we were too late for this one. I personally feel their blanket policy labeling all websites that use a blog format as “not reliable” is closed-minded and behind the times.

What do you think about this debate? Is it worth the effort to argue the notability of game music composers with Wikipedia editors who generally could care less?

27 Comments

If they say they deleted these composers because they are not “world class famous” in their crazy opinions, that really defeats the purpose of the site.

The summary of the whole debate was:

“oh we don’t understand the japanese language, so we can’t find any reliable sources. And we believe all the English sources are personal blogs.”

Pure ignorance.

Don on February 15, 2010

Shota brings up a good point. I was looking at some other VGM composers and I fear eventually the delete hammer will be brought on them. Kenichiro Fukui’s only reference is the Black Mages website (that may be enough, I don’t), and Akiko Shikata who is definitely famous in Japan has a reliable sources notice as of May 2009. It’s only a matter of time. I really think that the wiki nazis are on a power trip. Maybe if we photoshop a picture of Kinuyo with blond hair and blue eyes, they’ll reinstate her page.

Patrick Gann on February 15, 2010

Don, everything you say is true. Sad and true. The saddest thing is that the wiki nazis are just like you and me. The only difference is they’ve been editing wikipedia long enough to become “trusted editors,” and then they feel the need to start editing articles outside their area of expertise, as if they knew shit about it. Gaming, music, and game music are all a big mess over @ wikipedia right now.

And it’s not just blog-style formats Jayson. RPGFan was recently put into question as being a reputable source, and I actually had a long drawn-out battle with some asshole “contributors” at wikipedia who wanted all references to RPGFan removed from certain game pages. They are shooting themselves in the foot.

Shota Nakama on February 15, 2010

Maybe next time I will send them a bunch of Japanese “reliable” sources to show how ignorant those guys are.

As someone who was a fan of Jpop for years (and currently into Kpop), I’ve long since given up on getting English-language info on Japanese acts on the Wikipedia. The expedient path to go now is to make specialized wiki’s. We used to have the wiki.theppn.org, a far superior source for Jpop, which has sadly been lost (but I’m sure there are others to replace it).

Basically, Wikipedia is not the place for specialized info (or, increasingly, ANY info). I think the go-to site for info might be vgmdb.net from now on.

Man this sucks hugely. But then it’s not surprising – considering the ego of so many wikipedia editors. Someone important should forward this to TechCrunch sounds like the kind of thing they’d roll with.

Man, Wikipedia feels like a dystopia out of some anime now. Its like people revolted against “controlled” opinion and started something like wiki, a utopia. Now there’s “opinion overload” and people are going crazy.

Everything is just plain debatable hence its OK to delete anything that’s not challenged, and a challenge is lost if it doesn’t have the support of someone powerful. Anarchy. Madness.

Wikipedia is, at best, where I start my research, and even then only if I need a surface-introduction to the topic. I used to like the idea of it, but then I saw some of the talk pages and realised that inflexible elitism ruled the ‘encyclopedia anyone can edit’. It’s handy for quick facts and queries, but there’s a really good reason you’ll get your butt kicked if you try to cite Wikipedia in any reputable context. Just because we have ‘police’ monitoring the information doesn’t mean that reason has changed — even if some of the articles appear to be quite solid and peer-reviewed.

As regards VGM…I’m kind of used to seeing links in red to things upon which even casual VGM fans could elaborate.

So while this was tragic, it really hasn’t changed my opinion of Wikipedia. Anything I could learn there I can learn -more thoroughly- elsewhere.

[…] meets rap with Kabuto the Python – Those Minerals …instrumental version also available. Castlevania: original composer not “notable” enough for Wikipedia, but she’s still pretty special in our books. (Wiki discussion has more.) Mario Kart Love […]

If bands like Good Charlotte and Owl City can have a wiki page, then the compaoser for an iconic video game that has become a fan favorite among VGM. I thought Wiki was all about being’ hands off and lettin’ the people put relevant things out there. If it’s relevant to the masses, then it’s relevant period.

Worst case scenario – make a VGM wiki and put her on it.

Dan on February 16, 2010

Despite how useful Wikipedia is, this highlights what I see as its biggest problem. It is such a huge beurocracy that people will spend more time debating things than getting things done. I believe that if more editors spent their time doing research and improving articles rather than debate about whether they should be deleted or not, the whole site would be a lot more productive and would result in a much higher quality resource for everyone.

Well, for some reason I have one, and I don’t know where it came from – so I think she deserves her own.

Dan J on February 16, 2010

That is complete BS. After I saw the notice she left on her page about other composers being deleted I had to check it out. I just got done reading the whole conversation and its fucking moronic. Every day there are new sources popping up for these composers (New interview on Yamashita at SEMO) and they keep pages that have 2 sentences.

Wikipedia needs to have a re-evaluation of its goals because its no longer the people’s wikipedia. The more this happens the more I appreciate places like this where information is not apt to randomly disappear for almost zero reason.

[…] linked to both her recent Video Games Live appearance and the fantastic interview recently run on Original Sound Version, but all of that is apparently not good enough. OSV reports that other composers are in danger of […]

[…] linked to both her recent Video Games Live appearance and the fantastic interview recently run on Original Sound Version, but all of that is apparently not good enough. OSV reports that other composers are in danger of […]

JI on February 16, 2010

Did anybody save the article?

Just restore it. Keep restoring it until they ban your IP, then get a friend to keep restoring it.

Dan on February 17, 2010

JI: That won’t work. These types of Wikipedia editors will march to the corners of the earth and back just to enforce their edits or their interpretations of the rules (usually “guidelines”). Their will is much stronger and there are many more of them to do the job. When it comes to a battle of wills, no one will win against Wikipedia editors.

This is really disappointing. Especially considering the importance of someone like Yamashita-san’s work. Jayson… is there anything that G.A.N.G. can do to help out? Who would we contact? I’ll get a committee together of super important industry folks to make sure this doesn’t happen. Lets talk more and fight this.

This is completely absurd. The music for the original Castlevania is some of the most notable in video gaming history! Konami is even remixing it 25 years later.

gwern on February 21, 2010

> Just restore it. Keep restoring it until they ban your IP, then get a friend to keep restoring it.

J1: if that worked, don’t you think that sometime in the last 9 years or so, Wikipedia would’ve gotten around to closing that hole?

If you do that, all that would happen is the original page name and all the page names you try will be ‘salted’ – protected so that no edits such as page creation can be done. You would accomplish nothing and all you would make it nigh-impossible for some regular editor to write a good article which might meet WP:N and move it in.

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