Miki Dream

Last night* I had a dream about Miki. Apparently, Miki had seen Anthy and Akio together , so Akio gave him erotic pictures of him and Anthy to shut him up (and blow his mind). Miki becomes obsessed with this pictures. In my dream I was brainstorming this as a fanfic, though I realized it was out of character for Miki even in my dream. I also wanted to make Miki older (like 15). What do you think, sirs?

*Technically this morning, but with dreams people always say last night.

Re: Miki Dream

Miki getting obsessed over something like that seems really in character for him. He keeps a regular picture of Anthy in his music book, after all. And he also buys pictures of Utena/Anthy from the curry episode.

Of course if it was something really scandalous he'd want to make sure no one ever saw him with it or looking at it. Maybe he could get himself a locket.

Re: Miki Dream

I think part of Miki would be horrified, and the larger part (no, not that) would see all the connections between himself and Kozue and Akio and Anthy and be a gigantic mess of turned on, speculative, confused, and wanting. Seriously, that could be a pivotal point in Miki's development as a character.

Re: Miki Dream

YamPuff wrote:

That might not be as out of character as you think.

It cold use some tweaking, though. Miki becoming obsessed with a picture is good, but Miki being bribed with a picture not so good.

Not bribed -- guilted. Give Miki this picture and he won't want to blab; no matter how wrong you think it is, you lose your moral right to complain about it if you get hard looking at it. Or so his train of thought would go.

Re: Miki Dream

satyreyes wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

That might not be as out of character as you think.

It cold use some tweaking, though. Miki becoming obsessed with a picture is good, but Miki being bribed with a picture not so good.

Not bribed -- guilted. Give Miki this picture and he won't want to blab; no matter how wrong you think it is, you lose your moral right to complain about it if you get hard looking at it. Or so his train of thought would go.

And I think this would be an awesome fanfic.

Actually, I look at it the other way; he would be more inclined to complain because he found it hot if only to prove to himself how disgusted he thinks he should be by it.

Re: Miki Dream

YamPuff wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

Miki becoming obsessed with a picture is good, but Miki being bribed with a picture not so good.

Not bribed -- guilted. Give Miki this picture and he won't want to blab; no matter how wrong you think it is, you lose your moral right to complain about it if you get hard looking at it. Or so his train of thought would go.

And I think this would be an awesome fanfic.

Actually, I look at it the other way; he would be more inclined to complain because he found it hot if only to prove to himself how disgusted he thinks he should be by it.

That would make a good fic too Miki does tend to be very up-front about the contradictions and injustices he sees at Ohtori. But he never -- to my memory -- complains about Kozue's sexploits; he holds that inside. I think there are two reasons for that, both of which apply to our sexy, sexy photograph.

1) Complaining about Kozue's behavior would require saying the word "sex." Miki is out of his element in any such conversation, and he knows it. Whenever we see the subject get brought up around him, he seems petrified; he's simultaneously ashamed of knowing so little and ashamed of knowing so much. Maybe Akio's behavior is perfectly appropriate and he'd be making a fool of himself by making a big deal over nothing. Or maybe someone will notice that it took Miki a few days to come forward with it, and wonder publicly what Miki was doing with it in the meantime. He would rather boil in oil than have either of those conversations.

2) Complaining about Kozue's behavior might get Kozue in trouble. Miki would never turn a loved one in, whether it's Kozue or Anthy. The most he would do is go to a trusted friend and present them with an oblique hypothetical situation, stammering adorably, hoping to get advice.

Then there's the issue of who Miki would go to with the picture. Probably Touga, because Touga knows about "grown-up stuff." But what would Touga do with the picture if he had it?...

Re: Miki Dream

satyreyes, I agree with your points.

And I meant to post in this thread earlier, but I think that sounds like a marvelous fanfic idea. The first time I watched SKU, I thought Miki was just how he wanted to appear as - completely innocent. But when I watched it the second time, I realized there was a lot of.. sexual repression going on. I think I used to do that when I was younger, too. (Which is probably why I started to not like Miki as much later on, I guess.. I started to hate the sexual repression I used to do/still kind of do. Although, I still like Miki, but now I've come to adore Kozue more for her boldness and honesty.)

I also agree that Miki wouldn't want to bring it up to someone, because it would embarrass him too much. And also that he can be quite obsessed with things himself - he's also more sexual than he lets on, I think.

satyreyes, I'm not sure about Touga, since Miki seems to distrust him and his "grown-up" ways. He seems to get tense around him, but that's just from what I remember.. What about Nanami? Of course, she wouldn't know about that stuff much either, but Nanami came to him with hypothetical questions once or twice before, too.

..actually, what about Juri? She's kind of in-between, and she seems like his most trusted friend.

Re: Miki Dream

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

SleepDebtFairy wrote:

satyreyes, I'm not sure about Touga, since Miki seems to distrust him and his "grown-up" ways. He seems to get tense around him, but that's just from what I remember...

It would be too much to say that Miki "trusts" Touga, but he does idolize him. Touga represents a self-actualized human being to Miki -- someone who's willing to defend the things he wants so that no one takes them away from him. Juri and Utena and Nanami are Miki's peers, but Miki doesn't need a peer right now; he needs someone who knows what to do. Touga always knows what to do. Gio and Yasha wrote a colossal essay on this topic called "A Link in Obscurity;" I don't have time to find it right now, but it's in the ohtori.nu analysis section.

Re: Miki Dream

satyreyes wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

satyreyes wrote:

Not bribed -- guilted. Give Miki this picture and he won't want to blab; no matter how wrong you think it is, you lose your moral right to complain about it if you get hard looking at it. Or so his train of thought would go.

And I think this would be an awesome fanfic.

Actually, I look at it the other way; he would be more inclined to complain because he found it hot if only to prove to himself how disgusted he thinks he should be by it.

That would make a good fic too Miki does tend to be very up-front about the contradictions and injustices he sees at Ohtori. But he never -- to my memory -- complains about Kozue's sexploits; he holds that inside. I think there are two reasons for that, both of which apply to our sexy, sexy photograph.

1) Complaining about Kozue's behavior would require saying the word "sex." Miki is out of his element in any such conversation, and he knows it. Whenever we see the subject get brought up around him, he seems petrified; he's simultaneously ashamed of knowing so little and ashamed of knowing so much. Maybe Akio's behavior is perfectly appropriate and he'd be making a fool of himself by making a big deal over nothing. Or maybe someone will notice that it took Miki a few days to come forward with it, and wonder publicly what Miki was doing with it in the meantime. He would rather boil in oil than have either of those conversations.

2) Complaining about Kozue's behavior might get Kozue in trouble. Miki would never turn a loved one in, whether it's Kozue or Anthy. The most he would do is go to a trusted friend and present them with an oblique hypothetical situation, stammering adorably, hoping to get advice.

Then there's the issue of who Miki would go to with the picture. Probably Touga, because Touga knows about "grown-up stuff." But what would Touga do with the picture if he had it?...

I don't think Miki would blab either. Miki, if he just saw them together would probably have Nanami's reaction; shock followed by silence. He wouldn't say anything. However, he would not be bribed into silence. If he decided to blab, then he'd go and blab, but he would not change his mind just because he was given a trinket. Trying to bribe him would get his back up. It would have to be done in a very manipulative and clever way. That's the point I was trying to make. I can't see Miki saying 'Ok, I accept this porn from you and you have my silence'. @______@ In fact, if he agreed to be quiet and then Akio gave him the picture Miki'd probably give it back to him angrily and tell him he's not about to be bought.

Kozue's and Anthy's situations are a bit different. Miki seems to have given up hope for his sister, besides that she's free to do what she wants. Even if he did blab about her she wouldn’t stop her behavior. As for Anthy's case it would all depend on whether he sees her as a victim or willing participant. As a victim he would try to help her, be her hero. Or he might convince himself into believing she needs to be saved either way.

Besides that I can't really admire Kozue. She's a 13 year old whoring herself out to guys she doesn't even like simply to get attention from her brother. That's not admirable. And I don't find it as being 'strong' or 'open', just rather sad and twisted. There's a big difference between an independent woman making choices based on her free will and a confused 13 year getting sexed up. Whereas Miki practices restraint and control, which I admire very much in a young kid. Kozue is really the weak one in the relationship….everything she does is with Miki in mind, getting attention from him, whereas Miki has moved on in the fact that he is actively searching for someone to be his ‘shining thing’. This may involve a lot of looking back into the past, but he is going somewhere, doing something, trying to achieve something.

Re: Miki Dream

In my dream, I only saw the parts after Miki had accepted the pictures, and he was guiltily to them. In the next scene he was meeting with Anthy and friends and trying not to imagine Anthy naked.

I think this dream was inspired by a MSTing I read where both Mamoru and Usagi are fooled by the villian showing them sexually explicit scenes of the future. The MSTers joke about the awesome Power of Porn. Apparently, not even Miki is immune to it.

Re: Miki Dream

YamPuff wrote:

He would not be bribed into silence. If he decided to blab, then he'd go and blab, but he would not change his mind just because he was given a trinket. Trying to bribe him would get his back up. It would have to be done in a very manipulative and clever way. That's the point I was trying to make. I can't see Miki saying 'Ok, I accept this porn from you and you have my silence'. @______@ In fact, if he agreed to be quiet and then Akio gave him the picture Miki'd probably give it back to him angrily and tell him he's not about to be bought.

Big affirmative! Not bribed, guilted, like I say. The last part, about how Miki'd respond to an attempt at bribery, is pretty insightful; Akio would have to present it as "want pictures?" rather than "take this and shut up." This would have the bonus that later, when Miki's back in his room deciding what to do, he'll realize "OMG, was that a bribe?" and feel like now he has to be quiet because he implicitly accepted the bribe's terms.

YamPuff wrote:

As for Anthy's case it would all depend on whether he sees her as a victim or willing participant.

I was sort of taking for granted that he would have as little information as Nanami. The question of Anthy's exploitation never entered Nanami's head (as far as I know); she just saw something Very Wrong and didn't think about motives.

Re: Miki Dream

Re: Miki Dream

satyreyes wrote:

YamPuff wrote:

He would not be bribed into silence. If he decided to blab, then he'd go and blab, but he would not change his mind just because he was given a trinket. Trying to bribe him would get his back up. It would have to be done in a very manipulative and clever way. That's the point I was trying to make. I can't see Miki saying 'Ok, I accept this porn from you and you have my silence'. @______@ In fact, if he agreed to be quiet and then Akio gave him the picture Miki'd probably give it back to him angrily and tell him he's not about to be bought.

Big affirmative! Not bribed, guilted, like I say. The last part, about how Miki'd respond to an attempt at bribery, is pretty insightful; Akio would have to present it as "want pictures?" rather than "take this and shut up." This would have the bonus that later, when Miki's back in his room deciding what to do, he'll realize "OMG, was that a bribe?" and feel like now he has to be quiet because he implicitly accepted the bribe's terms.

YamPuff wrote:

As for Anthy's case it would all depend on whether he sees her as a victim or willing participant.

I was sort of taking for granted that he would have as little information as Nanami. The question of Anthy's exploitation never entered Nanami's head (as far as I know); she just saw something Very Wrong and didn't think about motives.

Dare I necro to make a point?

Yes, I think I dare, especially since Miki is my favorite character. While Miki might not KNOW any more than Nanami, I think that his impression of Anthy would lead him to believe whatever he would want to believe-- namely, that Anthy is pure and innocent and such a scenario would only be possible under either extraordinary or violent circumstances. Miki might try to be logical, but in the end, like most Utena characters, their emotions and what they WANT to perceive take precedent over what's really happening.

Re: Miki Dream

Baka Kakumei Reanna wrote:

While Miki might not KNOW any more than Nanami, I think that his impression of Anthy would lead him to believe whatever he would want to believe-- namely, that Anthy is pure and innocent and such a scenario would only be possible under either extraordinary or violent circumstances. Miki might try to be logical, but in the end, like most Utena characters, their emotions and what they WANT to perceive take precedent over what's really happening.

That's an interesting point! So if Miki walks in and sees what he thinks is Akio raping his sister, what does he do? Is he still aroused? Is he more aroused? How does Akio react? Does Miki go to someone about it, and if so, who? And how does his attitude towards Anthy change afterward?

Re: Miki Dream

satyreyes wrote:

Baka Kakumei Reanna wrote:

While Miki might not KNOW any more than Nanami, I think that his impression of Anthy would lead him to believe whatever he would want to believe-- namely, that Anthy is pure and innocent and such a scenario would only be possible under either extraordinary or violent circumstances. Miki might try to be logical, but in the end, like most Utena characters, their emotions and what they WANT to perceive take precedent over what's really happening.

That's an interesting point! So if Miki walks in and sees what he thinks is Akio raping his sister, what does he do? Is he still aroused? Is he more aroused? How does Akio react? Does Miki go to someone about it, and if so, who? And how does his attitude towards Anthy change afterward?

The first thing that comes to mind is that Anthy wouldn't bother to reassure Miki in any way-- at least not on her own. Now, how she would respond to Miki's queries later, I'm not sure. Miki seems to walk a very fine line between being timid and being headstrong, and which way he tips on this would have the biggest bearing on how the following scene would play out, I guess.

But I know for sure that if Miki pulled a Nanami and just ducked out of there without a word, he'd probably go to Utena first. She's not only close to Anthy, but he's pretty close to Utena for most of the series and has confided in her before.

Something that didn't occur to me before is Miki's apparent mistrust of adults (though not as pronounced as Kozue's), which is even more reason to believe that Anthy was being raped, and that going to an adult on the matter wouldn't do much good. In fact, I think Miki's ride in the Akio Car should probably provide a lot of clues, as far as how Miki seeks Akio.

Re: Miki Dream

NECRO. I DEMAND THIS FANFIC.

Another question is this: If Miki does see Anthy as the sexual victim, and if he does see these pictures and (obviously he would) think of himself and his sister, and the connections between him.... would Miki see himself more in the role of the "abuser," (Akio) or the "victim," (Anthy) and vice-versa for Kozue? Would Kozue be the abuser or the victim? Who would he blame, Kozue or himself? Or neither? Or would he think of these roles at all? Not knowing if Miki and Kozue ever had a sexual past before or not, it's hard to know for sure.

Re: Miki Dream

Miki and Kozue are very messed up, and neither of the ways they deal with their relationship is healthy. That being said, once I looked at the subtext, it was hard to demonize Kozue. Yes, what she did wasn't right. But Miki isn't treating her right, either. She's doing this for his attention, he knows it, he goes searching off for his "shining thing" which is basically replacing her, without the flaws.

I think Miki wouldn't tell anyone, maybe even if he thought Anthy was being taken advantage of. Here's an angle that hasn't been discussed: would he go up against Akio? His duels were about him being able to recognize what he wants and try to take it without repressing himself further. He dueled Utena just because he thought Anthy might not be able to play if Utena said no, even though Utena seemed to be a perfectly reasonable person.

So if he thought Anthy was being taken advantage of, would he confront Akio? He has his pride. It's not as much of an issue for him as the rest of the student council, but he still has it and it's very present at points. So I can't see him going to an adult for help over it.

Oooh, idea: what if Kozue walked in on Akio and Anthy? That would be equally fascinating.