We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Let's waterboard that camel jockey.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.

Many of my ancestors lived in Kentucky. My mother and grandmother were born there. It is a beautiful piece of this green earth. You can find the same range of human stupidity and brilliance there as anywhere.

chalmers writes:

Even though it makes me an elitist jerk... why am I not surprised you are from kentucky?

-elitist.

Edited by Omnivorous, : No reason given.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.

I would like to hear from anyone out there who is of the all volunteer generation who served.

US Army 84-87.

I joined because I had my first BS degree and there were no jobs for Earth scientists/engineers. So I looked into the air force, navy and army. The air force said 6, navy said 4, army said 3. I thought 3 sounds good to me. Went to boot, OCS, last to get booted, but still had to do 3. Should have joined air force or navy, more about brains than brawn.

Wound up in intelligence but mostly did paperwork, like processing security clearances for the 864th Engr Battalion. The occasional work for G2 at 9th ID and I Corps was more interesting, at least it beat pounding the pavement like an infantryman.

Even though, things didn't quite work according to plan, I have no real regrets. No wars at time, so was lucky in that regard, but sure heard a lot about Vietnam, being in contact with so many lifers.

The experience had its good and bad points. Felt good about giving something back, bad about losing 3 years of life in unpleasant job instead of grad school. Met people from world-over in various uniforms, some borderline geniuses, some of lesser ability, not unlike unsheltered life in general. But at least feel respect for all for serving in a difficult and often boring job that not just anyone could handle.

Doubtful would do same thing today as I feel top leadership too incompetent to win and too wasteful of resources, human and financial, to even care in the least. Back when I served did feel communism had to be stopped, and I'd say at least as a threat to this nation, was pretty much stopped cold. Although I was and am not a great supporter of Reagan, at least the top leadership was not as incompetent as at present. They were basically smart enough to stay out of war, yet still achieve goals.

Sure felt fortunate there was no war, the people who served at those times deserve the most thanks as their sacrifice was and is much greater.

And this Iraq war? It is sad. Very sad. Most gung-ho patriots out there haven't the slightest idea what a battle field looks like or smells like. Carnage is pixels on a TV screen. You have no idea. You just don't. I find it interesting that some of the greatest "peace-niks" are in fact the top brass of our military. They know.

Hi, Mespo. I'm sort of on the cusp, I suppose: I was Vietnam draft age (Class of '69) but had a high lottery number. I was safe.

I was also a precocious protest marcher. Got my first big scar in Lincoln Park in Chicago in 1968, a 16 year old flower child charged by my masked fathers--little did I know that in 1976, the good citizens of Boston would be spitting on me when I marched in a July 4th parade in dress uniform.

Two things happened: I became disillusioned with a counterculture that was no more rational than its mirror culture, and I met some early Vietnamese refugees while working in a soup kitchen. The stories they told of cruel northern fighters seeking to impose an alien ideology did not match well with the postcolonial agitprop I had previously believed. So I decided the only way to find the truth was to go. I went. I was ready to fight like a demon or desert, depending on what I found. I wasn't ready for what I found.

Most gung-ho patriots out there haven't the slightest idea what a battle field looks like or smells like. Carnage is pixels on a TV screen. You have no idea. You just don't. I find it interesting that some of the greatest "peace-niks" are in fact the top brass of our military. They know.

Yes.

Drinking when we are not thirsty and making love at any time, madam, is all that distinguishes us from the other animals.

quote:What has racism have to do with this discussion? And it is a RED state? Stay on task here.

Er, within one of your initial rants, you seemed outraged that I characterized the red states in the south, including Kentucky, as somewhat more ignorant. I brought up southern racism as well as education levels as examples of measures of ignorance.

quote:Let me guess, you're a Liberal! You could have fooled me. Red state. Get a life, man! With that comment comes the idea that you want Nancy Pelosi wielding a big stick that will have an effect on all of us? What a doofus. I'm embarrassed for San Francisco that she is the best they have. Well, you have your wish, the loons are back. Watch this cluster phuck take shape.

I'm sorry, did you have anything substantive to say in response to the actual facts I listed in support of my statement?

Something you might want to know about EvC is that talking a lot of smack and ranting without any substance (which is all you have done so far) impresses no one.

In fact, it will get you some unwanted moderator attention.

quote:Bachelor's degree? I would have to back up two degrees to get there.

Oh, that's great. What field is your PhD in?

Do you work in academia or industry?

quote:With a Bachelors degree, you can get coffee for people at McDonalds. Don't tell me that you only have a Bachelors and you think you're a brainiac? Please.

I never said I was a brainiac.

For someone with a PhD, you sure don't debate very well.

The point I was making, which you haven't addressed, is that the population of many of the southern states, Kentucky included, have very few people with college educations living there.

By definition, that is a population that is more ignorant that a population with high levels of post-high school education.

Remember, the Kentuckian's post that SuperNintendoChalmers responded to basically said, "If you are going to say anything bad about the military, you should just get out of America!".

That's a stupid, ignorant statement, and we hear it and similar a lot from religious fundamentalists here at EvC. Many religious fundamentalists reside in the southern United States.

The government of Kentucky has been working to improve education levels in the state and has been doing much better in recent years.

quote:Try to control your superiority complex Schraf, because you're not superior. And the oldest trick in the book for those with your complex is to pick on a certain people or area of the country where you actually feel you can look down at them. Kentucky does not have to look up to see anybody else, especially you.

Well, it does have to look "up" to see nearly the rest of the country in number of people with post-high school degrees.

There are lots of great things about Kentucky, but it's simply not the seat of intellectual prowess in America.

That doesn't mean there aren't a lot of intelligent people in Kentucky.

It does, however, mean that there are a lot of uneducated people in Kentucky.

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I don't care whether you or I have 6 degrees or none, that is not the issue. The issue is that you made blanket, derogatory comments about people who just do not deserve it. Even if some of things you said was true about their lack of education, they don't deserve it. And be advised that ignorance is in the eyes of the one that thinks he isn't.

Southern people are exceptionally good people. I am not from Kentucky but know them to be honorable and smart and of very high character. And, in my opinion, character trumps everything...including a college education, or the abililty to impress ones self with ones self.

As a rule are they well-educated? No. As a rule are they honorable? Yes. Don't confuse lack of education with their value as a person, that is wrong. Statistically, skilled trades earn more money in their lifetimes than the college degreed.

The only degreed occupations (those occupations which require degrees)that consistently earn more than skilled tradesmen are physicians and attorneys. The rest are not a gimme.

Stop talking down to people.

My degrees are in academic disciplines. I am retired from that occupation and working again as an structural engineering CAD designer for a international manufacturing company. I am the only one with any type of a college degree in the entire company.

The wealthy owner dropped out of high school and joined the military during Viet Nam because his family had no money. He could write a check and buy all the uppity college grads he wants. There are a lot of people there that make more money than I do. All are skilled people like welders, machinists, carpenters, painters, sheet metal guys, packaging and shippng people. Some have been with this company for 35 years.

They may not be able to debate with the EVC guys but they sure don't think they are better than anyone else. I like that in an individual.

Have a good day.

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What kind of lunatic comment is that? Are you trying to suggest that we should have negotiated with the idiot paper hanger Adolph in 1939 and asked him very nicely to avoid murdering 6 million people if at all possible? Or we could have had tea with the Japanese after we pulled all the burned GI bodies out of Pearl Harbor and simply asked them to, if they don't mind, stop killing very many Americans in their sneak attacks in the future?

Negotiating a bit more with Hitler would have resulted in his having nuclear weapons, but we could have talked him out of hurting anybody with them I am sure. We could have just as easily taught German to the kids instead of English. What a crock.

Really enjoying the exchange over there. I tried to put in my two cents worth but some nerdly admingooseme wouldn't let me..made my post invisible. Pretty neat trick. I sent you an email with that INVISIBLE post. Not sure you got it. I had some input about the Exodus about which I wanted your thoughts. Keep up the good work.

Ron

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