Suggested Priest changes

These are some suggested changes (at least the reasonable ones) that i've seen thrown around:

-Nerf the movement speed of angelic feathers to match body & soul (i.e. bring it down to 60%) & reduce the number of charges to 2.
-Spectral Guise is now a Shadow only ability, with some appropriate talent to replace it.
-Increase the cooldown on Chastise to 45s

The idea is to tone down Holy priests while giving Shadow a much needed boost. Once again, not my ideas, but interesting enough that I thought it deserved discussion.

Edited to add suggestions.

From Edx:

-Put a cap on the movement speed while Spectral Guised.

I didn't mention the Feather or Chastise idea because i've already covered it.

Hahahahhahaha, since when did they change the spelling of nerf to "tone down"? These aren't much needed improvements to spriests, these are some brutal mobility and survivability nerfs to holy. Also, would love to know where else these "balances" have been posted, also that had nothing to do with "priests are op, I get outplayed cause we can't tunnel a healer anymore".

Originally Posted by Lokoz

Me: "Ok if its a healer/dps go for healer then dps! Alright?"
Partner: "What if its a Paladin combo?"
Me: "Then just leave..."

Hahahahhahaha, since when did they change the spelling of nerf to "tone down"?

You're free to see it any way you want. I believe there's nothing wrong with you admitting that you want to bask in Holy's dominance. For the betterment of the PVP macro game, most reasonable players would consider these minor.

Originally Posted by Phocket

These aren't much needed improvements to spriests,

You're not comprehending the significance behind this suggestion (re: Spectral Guise given to Shadow only). This means Holy/Disc lose access to it and Shadow is free to choose something else from that tier. This is a direct buff to Shadow. Obviously there are Shadow specific issues to be addressed, but that's for another thread.

Originally Posted by Phocket

these are some brutal mobility and survivability nerfs to holy.

As mentioned above, I guess it's subjective. What you call brutal, the majority would call just.

Originally Posted by Phocket

Also, would love to know where else these "balances" have been posted,

Feel free to browse the forums.

Originally Posted by Phocket

also that had nothing to do with "priests are op, I get outplayed cause we can't tunnel a healer anymore".

I'm afraid I won't be able to tutor you in the reading comprehension department, if that's what you took from this.

You're free to see it any way you want. I believe there's nothing wrong with you admitting that you want to bask in Holy's dominance. For the betterment of the PVP macro game, most reasonable players would consider these minor.

I wouldn't say I bask in Holy's dominance. It's finally to a point where I don't feel pigeonholed into something I don't want to play, and have tools to be useful instead of a punching bag till Spirit. It also is not ez mode to be holy either, there are many timing issues (as with a majority of classes) that need to be addressed in order to have a good cc chain, as well as throughput on your arena team. I have been tunneled to oblivion by 2k's because they cc'd my dps in very nice, non-overlapping chains.

Originally Posted by gestapo

You're not comprehending the significance behind this suggestion (re: Spectral Guise given to Shadow only). This means Holy/Disc lose access to it and Shadow is free to choose something else from that tier. This is a direct buff to Shadow. Obviously there are Shadow specific issues to be addressed, but that's for another thread.

I understand that it would be a Shadow only spell. However, that would open up Spell X to every spec of Priest, and given that it's a survival tier (edited from "movement based tier") (also, for all classes, notice how most of the tiers deal with one specific aspect of the game). Without this spell, if you aren't an expert pillar humping champion, you can't stand out for more than a second without being cc'd, or chased around and LoS of your teammates. This gives me the ability to actually hard cast (which is what Holy relies on in desperate circumstances). Whatever the replacement would be, Spell X would have to be equally as beneficial to the absence of having SG.

Originally Posted by gestapo

As mentioned above, I guess it's subjective. What you call brutal, the majority would call just.

Brutal was an over exaggeration. It is somewhat crippling though. Losing a charge of feathers is nothing. Losing a feather and having the movement speed docked to 60% again? That's rough. The recharge time is sufficient enough (although if they added a few seconds per feather, I wouldn't complain) to make sure you can't constantly toss feathers to everyone.

Losing SG. Can no longer dodge (vanish technically) a poly/hex unless I'm around a pillar and LoS of my team. And if I am, it probably means I'm getting cc'd to DR so I stay behind that pillar.

Chastise cooldown is almost meaningless. I've had it reset 3 times in a row from one Holy Fire. I've had it not reset in 30s of spamming Smite. And believe me, there are plenty of times where if it were up, it would have won the game. But it wasn't cause it was on CD and the healer was able to top off the dps in time and momentum shifted. The disorient only lasts 3s. Pallys have a casted 8s disorient that is much more annoying (albeit you can see it coming).

Originally Posted by gestapo

Feel free to browse the forums.

I have, most people complain about PoM and general OP QQ. Not doggin on you, just saying that most people suggest changes that are playing against really solid HPriests. When I first started, I was terrible. I would die in seconds. Now, I tend to drag on 2's matches to annoy the other team if my dps dies.

Originally Posted by gestapo

I'm afraid I won't be able to tutor you in the reading comprehension department, if that's what you took from this.

Yeah, mobile version of MMO-Champ is a pain. If I scroll up after typing, and go back to trying to type or revise, it doesn't let me type anymore and I have to restart the app, losing all of what I typed. I do apologize for my general air of douche-ness, I just get very frustrated that people complain about healers. This is the first time I've been able to live longer than the first 20 seconds of a 3's match in idk how long, and I like that sometimes I'm not the target. Meh, this post is long enough. I do feel like there needs to be some sort of re-shift or balancing of a HPriest spells (Circle of Healing is like throwing a bandaid at someone who just took a chainsaw to the arm, while PoM is like a Tourniquet for someone that stubbed their toe), or re-configuring some of the talents/glyphs. I do agree that change is needed, just not specifically the changes you mentioned.

Last edited by Phocket; 2013-10-01 at 11:31 PM.

Originally Posted by Lokoz

Me: "Ok if its a healer/dps go for healer then dps! Alright?"
Partner: "What if its a Paladin combo?"
Me: "Then just leave..."

Holy is without a doubt in a Very strong spot right now.
Nerfing the things too much that make them good would call for buffs
In other areas if they were to compete with other healers.

Rdruid and rshamans are not that far from holys power and
Many people even consider druid and shaman to be superior
In certain comps. Any comp basically that has a warrior or warlockprobably...

Before the kids start crying about me being biased towards holy i can just say that
I currrntly play druid, monk, paladin and priest healers in roughly the same ratings...

Not gonna lie, I read that like a poem. I'm guessing you're posting from a phone or something tho.

OT: PoM appears to have been fixed, as has lightwell. This has toned down holy healing quite a bit if you watch streams. I wouldn't mind a control nerf of some sort; their CC options (especially when paired with druid Sym) can be insane even in 3s (though less prevalent). Not a complete neutering, just something to keep them viable just not holy pally 5.1 CC gods.

Not gonna lie, I read that like a poem. I'm guessing you're posting from a phone or something tho.

OT: PoM appears to have been fixed, as has lightwell. This has toned down holy healing quite a bit if you watch streams. I wouldn't mind a control nerf of some sort; their CC options (especially when paired with druid Sym) can be insane even in 3s (though less prevalent). Not a complete neutering, just something to keep them viable just not holy pally 5.1 CC gods.

Haha.. indeed i am. It looks really good on the phone and then when i see the post... oh well

Ot: The changes to pom and lw are going to matter alot. Regarding CC i guess they its somewhat too much with cyclone in the mix.
That is easily fixed tho by either changing the symbiosis exchange or putting clone on an1min cd or something. ..

Now that PoM and Lightwell have been fixed I don't see Holy being strong, or even particularly viable, in most comps. Holy was strong because PoM and lightwell kept everybody alive the whole time without ever needing to use any other heals, now that won't be an option, and Holy will fall behind and priests will swap back to Disc. Give it like 2-3 days for everyone to realize the impact of the fixes and things will change a lot.

@Phocket. Appreciate the reply. I'll get back to you later in the day.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by Phocket

I wouldn't say I bask in Holy's dominance. It's finally to a point where I don't feel pigeonholed into something I don't want to play, and have tools to be useful instead of a punching bag till Spirit. It also is not ez mode to be holy either, there are many timing issues (as with a majority of classes) that need to be addressed in order to have a good cc chain, as well as throughput on your arena team. I have been tunneled to oblivion by 2k's because they cc'd my dps in very nice, non-overlapping chains.

Fair enough, holy hasn't been good for a long time while Disc has.

Originally Posted by Phocket

I understand that it would be a Shadow only spell. However, that would open up Spell X to every spec of Priest, and given that it's a survival tier (edited from "movement based tier") (also, for all classes, notice how most of the tiers deal with one specific aspect of the game). Without this spell, if you aren't an expert pillar humping champion, you can't stand out for more than a second without being cc'd, or chased around and LoS of your teammates. This gives me the ability to actually hard cast (which is what Holy relies on in desperate circumstances). Whatever the replacement would be, Spell X would have to be equally as beneficial to the absence of having SG.

That indeed is something to consider. What would you recommend to help shadow out? They're not in a terrible state, just some minor tweaks would suffice.

Originally Posted by Phocket

Brutal was an over exaggeration. It is somewhat crippling though. Losing a charge of feathers is nothing. Losing a feather and having the movement speed docked to 60% again? That's rough. The recharge time is sufficient enough (although if they added a few seconds per feather, I wouldn't complain) to make sure you can't constantly toss feathers to everyone.

Losing SG. Can no longer dodge (vanish technically) a poly/hex unless I'm around a pillar and LoS of my team. And if I am, it probably means I'm getting cc'd to DR so I stay behind that pillar.

Chastise cooldown is almost meaningless. I've had it reset 3 times in a row from one Holy Fire. I've had it not reset in 30s of spamming Smite. And believe me, there are plenty of times where if it were up, it would have won the game. But it wasn't cause it was on CD and the healer was able to top off the dps in time and momentum shifted. The disorient only lasts 3s. Pallys have a casted 8s disorient that is much more annoying (albeit you can see it coming).

Don't you feel that the mobility aspect is a little too strong, given their overall toolkit? Feathers come up often and feather + guise into a fear is just too unavoidable for an enemy team right now.

Originally Posted by Phocket

Yeah, mobile version of MMO-Champ is a pain. If I scroll up after typing, and go back to trying to type or revise, it doesn't let me type anymore and I have to restart the app, losing all of what I typed. I do apologize for my general air of douche-ness, I just get very frustrated that people complain about healers. This is the first time I've been able to live longer than the first 20 seconds of a 3's match in idk how long, and I like that sometimes I'm not the target. Meh, this post is long enough. I do feel like there needs to be some sort of re-shift or balancing of a HPriest spells (Circle of Healing is like throwing a bandaid at someone who just took a chainsaw to the arm, while PoM is like a Tourniquet for someone that stubbed their toe), or re-configuring some of the talents/glyphs. I do agree that change is needed, just not specifically the changes you mentioned.

Thank you for that. I can understand your frustration, however it feels like we just need to shave a little off the top and bump up the bottom to be in a fairly balanced season. Overall I have to say it looks quite promising (TCCY aside).

Originally Posted by Kals

Not gonna lie, I read that like a poem. I'm guessing you're posting from a phone or something tho.

OT: PoM appears to have been fixed, as has lightwell. This has toned down holy healing quite a bit if you watch streams. I wouldn't mind a control nerf of some sort; their CC options (especially when paired with druid Sym) can be insane even in 3s (though less prevalent). Not a complete neutering, just something to keep them viable just not holy pally 5.1 CC gods.

Yeah, read it like a poem too.

Originally Posted by Rucati

Now that PoM and Lightwell have been fixed I don't see Holy being strong, or even particularly viable, in most comps. Holy was strong because PoM and lightwell kept everybody alive the whole time without ever needing to use any other heals, now that won't be an option, and Holy will fall behind and priests will swap back to Disc. Give it like 2-3 days for everyone to realize the impact of the fixes and things will change a lot.

I dont think it's a super good idea to nerf telent choices for all spec, better get to holy/disc directly and not nerfing shadow indirectly.. again.

I see much QQ about the 2 healing spec,but it would be unwise to hurt the Shadow even more for no reason.
You do know that they buffed feathers for a reason right? not defending the healings specs tho.

I dont think it's a super good idea to nerf telent choices for all spec, better get to holy/disc directly and not nerfing shadow indirectly.. again.

I see much QQ about the 2 healing spec,but it would be unwise to hurt the Shadow even more for no reason.
You do know that they buffed feathers for a reason right? not defending the healings specs tho.

Perhaps, the PoM + Lightwell fix plus an increase on Chastise would be a start.

Perhaps, the PoM + Lightwell fix plus an increase on Chastise would be a start.

I wonder exactly how much the fixes to PoM and Lightwell will affect the gameplay. I have been asking for nerfs to priests
since a few seasons back but it seems everyone else just catched up. Same thing with hunter. They have been flying under
the radar for soo long.

Anyways... if the fixes to lightwell and PoM toned down holys healing the only thing left for the spec is chastise thats different
from other priest specs...

I dont see the need to nerf it. Psyfiend is already nerfed and turned to shit, void tendrils works against a minority of classes and
mind control pretty much only works in 2s against a small selection of comps.

Nerfing chastise would remove holy from the ladders and leave only disc and shadow. Maybe thats what people want tho

Hahahahhahaha, since when did they change the spelling of nerf to "tone down"? These aren't much needed improvements to spriests, these are some brutal mobility and survivability nerfs to holy. Also, would love to know where else these "balances" have been posted, also that had nothing to do with "priests are op, I get outplayed cause we can't tunnel a healer anymore".

Why is is that every class that has a sprint or even an AoE sprint have like 2-3 min CDs while angelic feather is only on a 10 sec CD recharge timer for an 80% sprint for 5-6 seconds? How's that fair? I mean, if it's fair, could my MW monk have 3 charges of tigers lust please?