All sorts of wows: TD scores, Knicks get back to stymie a long outlet, Novak makes a defensive play and then the bubble bursts. Melo gets mailed but it goes uncalled and Wade is alone under the basket.

STAT is in the building!! And shuda been an and1 without question. Were hanging in there guys, novak hasnt even gotten good looks yet and melo n stat arent exactly hot yet but showing signs… P.s do you guys think Bibby came alive cos dwayne (quite accurately) took a shot at him for never hitting a shot last year with the heat?

By the way, hasn’t it been said in virtually each game besides game 1, that it seems like it’s a 14 point game but it’s only a 6 point game? Of course NOW it’s really looking more like a 14 point game..

It’s kind of psycho…he’ll tolerate anything from him. Sop sucking up woody…hes not going to stay for less money. Let’s see more Fields…he doesn’t help much but he doesn’t kill us either. Who dribbled? JR who fouled? JR….who shot? Too obvious

BigBlueAL:
I dont think I want JR back because Woodson seriously is in love with him.

Fact is Heat scored 100 and 104 in Games 1 & 2. In NY they scored 87 twice. Tonight they have 54 at half-time already. Doesnt matter what the reasons are the fact is the Knicks D hasnt played well in Miami this series.

johnlocke:
It’s kind of psycho…he’ll tolerate anything from him. Sop sucking up woody…hes not going to stay for less money. Let’s see more Fields…he doesn’t help much but he doesn’t kill us either. Who dribbled? JR who fouled? JR….who shot? Too obvious

Would, say, Ray Allen play well if asked to initiate the offense? Not sure if people understand that the Knicks are playing one of the best ball pressure teams post hand check era without a point guard…..Lin makes a huge difference for so many reasons

Dribbling 12 times to go nowhere is not helpful….that’s classic Tony Douglas playmaking. Either penetrate or take a couple dribbles and move the ball. He should do less, not more

ruruland: Would, say, Ray Allen play well if asked to initiate the offense? Not sure if people understand that the Knicks are playing one of the best ball pressure teams post hand check era without a point guard…..Lin makes a huge difference for so many reasons

BigBlueAL: Doesnt matter what the reasons are the fact is the Knicks D hasnt played well in Miami this series.

Of course the Heat have something to do with that.

The reasons always matter BBA. Tonight is about attention to detail. Miami isn’t a good offensive rebounding team. Take away half of the 2nd chance baskets and we’re down maybe five or six instead of double digits. That’s not even extra effort. It’s focus.

ruruland: Would, say, Ray Allen play well if asked to initiate the offense? Not sure if people understand that the Knicks are playing one of the best ball pressure teams post hand check era without a point guard…..Lin makes a huge difference for so many reasons

I think Allen ran some point with Milwaukee but if he did that was years and years ago.

David Crockett: The reasons always matter BBA. Tonight is about attention to detail. Miami isn’t a good offensive rebounding team. Take away half of the 2nd chance baskets and we’re down maybe five or six instead of double digits. That’s not even extra effort. It’s focus.

That’s the fixable thing in basketball.

I think it has alot to do with the Heat’s aggressiveness playing at home compared to on the road. Plus the wakeup call they got after losing Game 4 hasnt helped either.

Just frustrating because it felt like the Knicks played a very good 1st half but they trail by 11. Pretty disheartening.

The offensive rebounds are creating open looks. Wade running out in transition constantly. Let’s see some long 2s from Lebron. Wade has made some ridiculous well defended shots but yeh too many transition buckets and off rebounds. Need to run back on defense to stop wades cherry picking also

d-mar:
Heat have 9 offensive rebounds and are shooting 50% from downtown. Not a recipe for Knicks success.

Out of hand and Miami hasn’t really played that well…..sad end. At least we won one game in the playoffs. Won’t miss JR when he bolts. Too many headaches for the moments of euphoria. What has happened with Novak this series is sad…feels like when Lin played Miami…just hurts

BigBlueAL:
Melo now 1 for 5 in 3rd quarter after missing that WIDE OPEN 3pter.Game getting out of hand now.

Knicks seem flat, but, of course, they’re playing third string at point, third string at PF, and second string and third at the deuce.
Fuck Miami, and the announcers, who clearly want a few more field trips to Miami.

Yeah but even with Amare out there, it was the exact same thing. Maybe it’s just the Miami defense but is it really outlandish to say that our role players can be a partially involved in our offense? There are a lot of teams without much “firepower” and seem to make it work. But with isolations, you HAVE to rely on “firepower”

d-mar: Sort of agree, but we have so little offensive firepower out there, it comes down to Melo and JR creating their own shots. Not sure what the alternative is.

Damn. Just when Melo hits the 3 he fouls on the 3… FML. Looking at STAT on the bench makes me want to punch him in the face. He has literally done everything possible to take himself out of this series. Asshole.

Will the Thrill: Yeah but even with Amare out there, it was the exact same thing. Maybe it’s just the Miami defense but is it really outlandish to say that our role players can be a partially involved in our offense? There are a lot of teams without much “firepower” and seem to make it work. But with isolations, you HAVE to rely on “firepower”

Yeah, I hear you, but it really starts with having a PG who can break down the defense now and then. Bibby is doing the best he can, but he couldn’t get by a pylon

Another idiotic Breen comment – Novak can’t get any shots because of the lack of ball movement. Yeah, if we’d just give it him on the perimeter with a man in his face, all would be right with the world.

Jesus. Melo misses a wide open shot and then Tyson misses a wide open rebound. Then Chalmers hits a 3. We’re only coming back in this game if we start pounding the ball into the paing and getting fouls and1’s only way to slow the game down while scoring.

As I type Amare makes a HORRIBLE pass attempt leading to another heat foul. great.

STAT WTF ARE YOU DOING??? How can this dude be so unaware of his surroundings? THis isnt a new issue either, his turnovers always boil down to him not being aware that someone is trying to take the ball off him. Which is generally what nba players do on defense. Then again considering how he doesnt understand what D is its starting to make sense…

d-mar:
Another idiotic Breen comment – Novak can’t get any shots because of the lack of ball movement. Yeah, if we’d just give it him on the perimeter with a man in his face, all would be right with the world.

im so sick of everyone talking about amare and melo “coexisting”. maybe, just maybe, amare is not playing well with melo because hes really not that good. hes succeeded in one system and only one system (and on only one end of the court), so Im not putting his recent failures on melo at all

Eariler in the TNT broadcast they said something like Melo had 9 layups in game 4, most this season. That really opened up shooting spaces for the other teammates. I believe tonight he didn’t have any layup, only jumpers.

my prediction both fields and lin are leaving next year. there are two conflicting teams in new york and the hero/iso team is always going to win out over the movement team because of the three big contracts. we’ve learned that melo definitely cannot be a part of a ball movement team. both the sophomores have no future in new york. sad but true.

While this is no way to end a season, with no fight, there’s at least something to look forward to next season. A full, healthy training camp with Lin, Amaré and Melo should theoretically work wonders for the absurd stagnation in the offense. I’m also gonna bank on Stat improving a great deal on defense in the offseason.

If Field’s contract hasn’t expired, I hope he improves his godless jumpshot and his handle. If it’s expired, I dont see how they don’t let him walk.

jhaelin:
my prediction both fields and lin are leaving next year. there are two conflicting teams in new york and the hero/iso team is always going to win out over the movement team because of the three big contracts. we’ve learned that melo definitely cannot be a part of a ball movement team. both the sophomores have no future in new york. sad but true.

JoMo:
While this is no way to end a season, with no fight, there’s at least something to look forward to next season. A full, healthy training camp with Lin, Amaré and Melo should theoretically work wonders for the absurd stagnation in the offense. I’m also gonna bank on Stat improving a great deal on defense in the offseason.

If Field’s contract hasn’t expired, I hope he improves his godless jumpshot and his handle. If it’s expired, I dont see how they don’t let him walk.

why would you think amare’s defense would improve in the offseason if it hasnt happened yet???

Hopefully this is what’s happening and Knicks doesn’t match other team’s offer. By watching these playoff games this seems to become more and more clear. With Woodson as coach next year, and his offense scheme, all he needs is a PG that doesn’t turn the ball over and pass to Melo after half court, there are very many cheap PGs out there that fits this role, no need to spend big on Lin.

jhaelin:
my prediction both fields and lin are leaving next year. there are two conflicting teams in new york and the hero/iso team is always going to win out over the movement team because of the three big contracts. we’ve learned that melo definitely cannot be a part of a ball movement team. both the sophomores have no future in new york. sad but true.

but also sadly new york will never win a championship with melo. this hero team which management will juice for the next three years will be a mediocre and luke warm till its death.

bc2k:
Hopefully this is what’s happening and Knicks doesn’t match other team’s offer. By watching these playoff games this seems to become more and more clear. With Woodson as coach next year, and his offense scheme, all he needs is a PG that doesn’t turn the ball over and pass to Melo after half court, there are very many cheap PGs out there that fits this role, no need to spend big on Lin.

That was some of the worst ‘analysis’ I’ve ever heard from Reggie Miller. Honestly, I’ve lost even more respect for him. First the nonsense about amare and melo – as has been said before how can anyone tell when there isn’t a single guard on the team to penetrate and open up shots? And then to say Lin waved Melo off? Lin brought his shots down a lot after Melo came back and became more of a distributor. Finally to compare bibby and lin? Did he watch a knick game this year?

Btw, Melo needs to get an A tonight – to do what he did while being guarded by lebron. Heroic (no pun intended). Now if only chandler, jr, and amare showed up…

TNT/ESPN have generally been pretty disappointing on the analysis. You can’t get reasonable insight on the small market teams, because they don’t know anything. On NY there just are too many haters with a agendas.

I wonder what lessons this team learned from the season. I really can’t see how the team will be any better next year. But there really aren’t many options for upgrading the roster. No cap space. No draft picks. We are stuck right here for the next few years I think. Let’s try to enjoy first round outs through 2015.

Thomas B.:
I wonder what lessons this team learned from the season.I really can’t see how the team will be any better next year.But there really aren’t many options for upgrading the roster.No cap space. No draft picks. We are stuck right here for the next few years I think.Let’s try to enjoy first round outs through 2015.

You do understand the team we watched tonight was not the team we’ll have next year, right? Like our starting backcourt might be a bit different?

Thomas B.:
I wonder what lessons this team learned from the season.I really can’t see how the team will be any better next year.But there really aren’t many options for upgrading the roster.No cap space. No draft picks. We are stuck right here for the next few years I think.Let’s try to enjoy first round outs through 2015.

Hmmn. Let’s see. They have a top 10 PG who is coming back. They have a shutdown ball hawk coming back. They have a full training camp with their team and coach who have barely played 20 games together thus far. You can’t be serious. So, I guess if the Bulls lose to the 76ers tomorrow you’ll say the same about them, right?

If (BIG IF) Melo becomes tradale, then the whole thing opens up. He’s probably at the peak of his trade value right now after these playoff performances.

Thomas B.:
I wonder what lessons this team learned from the season.I really can’t see how the team will be any better next year.But there really aren’t many options for upgrading the roster.No cap space. No draft picks. We are stuck right here for the next few years I think.Let’s try to enjoy first round outs through 2015.

I agree. Pretty much the hardest type of team to root for IMO. No hope. I’d rather the team be terrible and young. At least then there’s the off chance of a young guy breaking out. I also think there’s a chance to win 55 games if we traded Melo for more complementary players. The problem is that will never happen, and it would require a more creative offense, which Woodson does not have a reputation for.

As long as Lin and our “Big” 3 are healthy all next season this team should easily win 50 games and finally win a playoff round. Beyond that though yeah not sure how much farther they can go but still is a helluva lot better than what we’ve had the past 11 years.

I agree. Pretty much the hardest type of team to root for IMO. No hope. I’d rather the team be terrible and young. At least then there’s the off chance of a young guy breaking out. I also think there’s a chance to win 55 games if we traded Melo for more complementary players. The problem is that will never happen, and it would require a more creative offense, which Woodson does not have a reputation for.

Umm, we have a 23yr old PG and a 22yr old shooting guard, the DPOY who is 27, and Melo, who is 27. And maybe amare comes back in shape. How much younger do you want them to get? We’re younger than boston and miami and, I think, better than indiana.

I think we should wait to see who’s coaching before we decide who should stay and who should go. I certainly hope Woodson isn’t back, seeing that his only upside was defense and even D’Antoni had us as a top 10 defensive unit this year. If the coach we have thinks Amar’e can still be useful (as he’s exhibited in the last two games), I’d be all for keeping him unless a team like Atlanta offers us Josh Smith or something outrageous like that. But for now, we can’t know for sure that having Amar’e and Melo on the same roster is detrimental to winning basketball games.

I meant Melo, at this point we won’t get anything good in return for Amar’e, Melo on the other hand is at his peak. However I don’t think Knicks’ management will put Melo on the trading block, they just can’t, after traded the whole starting lineup for him 1 and half year ago.

Jeremy Lin needs to be a better shooting and less-athletic version of Russel Westbrook. This way, Melo can play a Kevin Durant role on offense, and we’ll still be able to play pick and roll basketball with Amar’e or Tyson. I really do believe that if Lin and Shumpert were both 100% healthy, we’d be up 3-2 right now on a Miami team that appears to not care or respect this team enough to give us their best shot. They don’t look like champions, or anywhere as good as the Thunder, Clippers, and Spurs do right now.

Bruno Almeida: well, if that’s being depressed, then call me depressed for the last 5 months.

this team is very similar to those Rockets teams… a questionable superstar and an incredibly injury-prone big man, both on huge contracts…

we do have Chandler, who can probably by himself turn us into… the Atlanta Hawks, a 2nd round out team.

We also have Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, and a draft pick that could turn into a player like Robbie Hummel or some other potential steal in the draft. This team has a very good chance to be as good as the Bulls, and Dwyane Wade is already 30. Things aren’t as bleak as you’d like to believe.

I only skimmed this thread quickly, but is anyone talking about the pretty lousy and disappointing series for Chandler? I get that he had the flu for the first two games (and fuck you once again for that, Toney), but the last three were not good either, very disappointing way to go out after the season he had.

Guys, this was a very strange season, with terrible injuries. We finished pretty much like we should have, given the fact that we blew many easy games and therefore sacrificed seeding. That was the biggest frustration for me this year. I try hard to look at the team as a whole, but can’t keep but coming back to the thought that Stat can not be the starting power forward, because he is simply not a power forward. I’m not going to rip him, but he needs to either be moved, or, next year, come off the bench. IMO, it is not a matter of being in better shape—it’s his skill set, particularly on defense. Also, JR is pretty clueless, often useless, but efforts big time. Notwithstanding, I, for one, do not really want to see him back. Fields is not a starting 2 on any competitive team. I don’t know what to say about Chandler, who looked pretty bad this series, but awesome overall. I believe the core of Chandler, Melo and Lin will take us for a really nice ride next year. To me, while I appreciate what Woody has done this year, the jury is still out. BTW, shout out to Bibby. Also, a shout out to the authors herein. Great job and thanks for all your time, attention and effort.

massive: We also have Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, and a draft pick that could turn into a player like Robbie Hummel or some other potential steal in the draft. This team has a very good chance to be as good as the Bulls, and Dwyane Wade is already 30. Things aren’t as bleak as you’d like to believe.

LOL if you can’t beat them now, wait until they’re old.. That’s not the right mentality for a professional sports team.

JR Sec 112: Hmmn.Let’s see.They have a top 10 PG who is coming back.They have a shutdown ball hawk coming back.They have a full training camp with their team and coach who have barely played 20 games together thus far.You can’t be serious.So, I guess if the Bulls lose to the 76ers tomorrow you’ll say the same about them, right?

BigBlueAL:
As long as Lin and our “Big” 3 are healthy all next season this team should easily win 50 games and finally win a playoff round.Beyond that though yeah not sure how much farther they can go but still is a helluva lot better than what we’ve had the past 11 years.

the only problem with our “big 3″ is they are the big one on the defensive end and the big 2 on the offensive end and and incompatible big 2 at that.

I was just saying he sucked to my friend….today he missed more putbacks and fumbled more balls then I have ever seen

jon abbey:
I only skimmed this thread quickly, but is anyone talking about the pretty lousy and disappointing series for Chandler? I get that he had the flu for the first two games (and fuck you once again for that, Toney), but the last three were not good either, very disappointing way to go out after the season he had.

massive: We also have Jeremy Lin, Iman Shumpert, and a draft pick that could turn into a player like Robbie Hummel or some other potential steal in the draft. This team has a very good chance to be as good as the Bulls, and Dwyane Wade is already 30. Things aren’t as bleak as you’d like to believe.

well, “like” isn’t the right word, I’ve been through enough terrible Knicks teams to learn a little bit how to dislike flawed rosters.

and look, steals in the draft are really rare… we’ve lucked out with Shumpert, but this isn’t going to happen every year.

I do hope Shumpert comes back strong from the injury, and Lin is able to adjust to playing with everybody else (and that we can resign him).

the Bulls are still much deeper than us, and the Heat have better stars.

Why not? Every team has its window. I believe we’ll be competitive (top 3 in the east for the next 2 years and then if we make a couple of decent moves and lin/shumpert get better, we have a real shot at contending for the nba title in ’14-’15 and beyond, especially once amare can be moved as an expiring contract. . After 12 years of misery, there is finally something to truly look forward to.

Reading all these posts is somewhat irritating. I don’t think we’re as bad or fucked for the future as you think. We played a healthy top 4 team in the league with our starting PG (Lin), starting SG (Shump), starting PF (Amare), backup PG (Baron), backup SF (Jeffries) all with some form of partial or total injury, and our DPOY Center with the Flu. No team in the league could withstand losses of that magnitude. I don’t think we would have beaten Miami with a completely healthy roster, but at least could have made it a competitive 6-7 game series. I’m with whoever above said that we’re likely to win 50+ games next year and go into the playoffs with homecourt in round 1. Let’s not be so fatalistic. We just had poor luck and that’s all there is to it. Ask the Bulls!

JR Sec 112: Umm, we have a 23yr old PG and a 22yr old shooting guard, the DPOY who is 27, and Melo, who is 27.And maybe amare comes back in shape.How much younger do you want them to get?We’re younger than boston and miami and, I think, better than indiana.

daJudge:
Guys, this was a very strange season, with terrible injuries.We finished pretty much like we should have, given the fact that we blew many easy games and therefore sacrificed seeding. That was the biggest frustration for methis year.I try hard to look at the team as a whole, but can’t keep but coming back to the thought that Stat can not be the starting power forward, because he is simply not a power forward.I’m not going to rip him, but he needs to either be moved, or, next year, come off the bench.IMO, it is not a matter of being in better shape—it’s his skill set, particularly on defense.Also, JR is pretty clueless, often useless, but efforts big time.Notwithstanding, I, for one, do not really want to see him back. Fields is not a starting 2 on any competitive team.I don’t know what to say about Chandler, who looked pretty bad this series, but awesome overall.I believe the core of Chandler, Melo and Lin will take us for a really nice ride next year.To me, while I appreciate what Woody has done this year, the jury is still out.BTW, shout out to Bibby.Also, a shout out to the authors herein.Great job and thanks for all your time, attention and effort.

What is it Charles Barkley says? What do you call a PF who averages less than 8 rebounds a game? A SF. And the Knicks already have one of those getting a ton of money.

Bulls are like a 60 win team. They proved that. They lost the MVP. This team barely gets to .500 and they don’t have an MVP.

To quote John McEnroe “You can NOT be serious!”

I don’t necessarily disagree with you that this team’s future isn’t overly bright, but why are you anointing guys like Rubio and Curry? Lin and Rubio essentially had the same rookie season with injuries, except Lin was noticeably better. Rubio turns the ball over quite a bit. And Steph Curry is seemingly never healthy, and is not a true distributor either.

I agree that becoming a 50 win team who cant get out of the 2nd round is not great but its pretty arrogant for a freaking Knicks fan to complain about that as if we as fans deserve better or are too good to root for a team like that.

The Knicks have fucking sucked for 11 years basically, winning 50 games and making it to the 2nd round would be pretty damn good especially since that should be the minimum we can expect for the next 3 years. I mean if we are going to complain that for the next 3 years all we can hope for is to win 50 games and get eliminated in the 2nd round and act like its not even worth rooting for this team during that time frame than shit I dunno what to tell you.

the knicks have no cap space and no roster flexibility and are lacking 3 first round picks and 2 #2 picks gone over the next 4 years.

their starting back court (fields and douglas) of this past year likely won’t be on the roster moving forward, and if they are, that just says how bad the roster is.

lin will be a 23 yr old with 30 games of experience that is coming off the repair of an old injury who couldn’t make it back in 5 weeks where grant hill made it back in 15 days from cartilage repair.
the only wing defender won’t be 100% if ever for 18 months from acl repair.

our 13 million dollar defensive center is an enormous liability on the offensive end as was displayed in games 4 and 5 where he was helpless to help a stagnant offense as a number 3 or 4 complimentary threat because he has zero offensive skills other than dunking.

JR Sec 112: Umm, we have a 23yr old PG and a 22yr old shooting guard, the DPOY who is 27, and Melo, who is 27.And maybe amare comes back in shape.How much younger do you want them to get?We’re younger than boston and miami and, I think, better than indiana.

You guys are depressing.And wrong.

Chandler will be 30 before next season starts. Players RARELY improve after age 24, the age Fields will be next year. Players generally start to decline at 28, the age Melo will be in a couple weeks. We have one quality young player in Lin whose best case scenario is probably a poor man’s Russell Westbrook (who is the same age, BTW, as Lin). Westbrook works in OKC because Durant doesn’t have to dominate the ball to be dominant. That is not the case with Anthony.

Shumpert is unlikely to be the same player he was this season for at least another 18 months (read: 2013/14 season).

The injuries are a poor excuse for this team’s record. We went 8-1 during Linsanity — Melo missed all those games, and Stoudemire missed half. We went 9-4 down the stretch with Stoudemire and Lin both hurt. Take out those two streaks, and the team has a record of 19-25. We might have missed the playoffs if “healthy”.

If we look at teams that won a similar # of games to NY, all of them are either very young, or look to have a ton of cap space:

the knicks have no cap spaceand no roster flexibility and are lacking 3 first round picks and 2 #2 picks gone over the next 4 years.

their starting back court (fields and douglas) of this past year likely won’t be on the roster moving forward, and if they are, that just says how bad the roster is.

lin will be a 23 yr old with 30 games of experience that is coming off the repair of an old injury who couldn’t make it back in 5 weeks where grant hill made it back in 15 days from cartilage repair.
the only wing defender won’t be 100% if ever for 18 months from acl repair.

our 13 million dollar defensive center is an enormous liability on the offensive end as was displayed in games 4 and 5 where he was helpless to help a stagnant offense as a number 3 or 4 complimentary threat because he has zero offensive skills other than dunking.

amar’e will likely need surgical repair of his disc. good luck keeping him healthy and we can no longer amnesty him because that was eaten up to acquire a very nice one way complimentary player.

so , yes…. how will they possibly do better than this past season moving forward?

Tired of defending this team to all the irrational haters. You guys are worse than the media. Strange you guys call yourself ‘fans” and then take a completely one-sided view to pronounce the team finished for the next 5 years, despite this being easily the most promising team in a decade. You are the guys who deserve isaiah.

max fisher-cohen: Chandler will be 30 before next season starts. Players RARELY improve after age 24, the age Fields will be next year. Players generally start to decline at 28, the age Melo will be in a couple weeks. We have one quality young player in Lin whose best case scenario is probably a poor man’s Russell Westbrook (who is the same age, BTW, as Lin). Westbrook works in OKC because Durant doesn’t have to dominate the ball to be dominant. That is not the case with Anthony.

Shumpert is unlikely to be the same player he was this season for at least another 18 months (read: 2013/14 season).

The injuries are a poor excuse for this team’s record. We went 8-1 during Linsanity — Melo missed all those games, and Stoudemire missed half. We went 9-4 down the stretch with Stoudemire and Lin both hurt. Take out those two streaks, and the team has a record of 19-25. We might have missed the playoffs if “healthy”.

If we look at teams that won a similar # of games to NY, all of them are either very young, or look to have a ton of cap space:

JR Sec 112: Tired of defending this team to all the irrational haters.You guys are worse than the media. Strange you guys call yourself ‘fans” and then take a completely one-sided view to pronounce the team finished for the next 5 years, despite this being easily the most promising team in a decade.You are the guys who deserve isaiah.

i’m sure you are tired primarily because you are defending the indefensible. dolan has wrested defeat from the jaws of victory with his need for a “big star” last year to justify his renovations with an enormous ticket price hike. and the suckers keep buying a mediocre product at exorbitant prices.

there is nothing wrong with being the atlanta hawks of the last few years as long as you think being a slightly better than average team is a good result for blowing up 4 seasons (2 to get under the cap and 2 to put together this inflexible group).

been a knick fan since the days of jumpin johnny green and willie nauls. always will be. however, that doesn’t allow me to check logic and reason at the door.

please tell me why this group (sans the losses) will be better net year. expecting starks to appear from the grocery line, mason to come from turkey and another lin off the waiver wire???

Thank you because I wasnt sure how to say Deron Williams without also insulting that guy by asking if he ever watched basketball. Perhaps watch Deron Williams torch Lin earlier this year created a mental block. Nah, you need mental ability to have a mental block.

Thomas B.: Thank you because I wasnt sure how to say Deron Williams without also insulting that guy by asking if he ever watched basketball. Perhaps watch Deron Williams torch Lin earlier this year created a mental block. Nah, you need mental ability to have a mental block.

Classy. Just because you mentioned williams after paul and the clips game is on, doesn’t change the fact that you initial post was moronic and uninformed and you’re overall analysis weak.

JR Sec 112: Didn’t know OKC doesn’t run plays for durant and that he doesn’t dominate the ball.

Didn’t know you were a doctor who repaired ACLs.

Didn’t realize Utah and their big 3 of milsap, harris, and heyward were so tough.

Didn’t realize dallas, houston, and phoenix were young up and coming teams that, with a little cap space, could contend.

Thanks for the education.

OKC runs plays for Durant, but Durant can also play off the ball, which helps since Westbrook (like Lin and Stoudemire) is not an effective off ball player.

If you are unimpressed by Harris, Hayward and Millsap, you should be unimpressed by this team. What have they done to impress you?

Dallas, Houston and Phoenix are not young up and coming teams. Don’t twist my words. They are teams with a LOT of cap space. Dallas will probably sign Deron Williams this summer. Phoenix has stupid management, so who knows what they’ll do. Houston has a very intelligent and careful GM, so I imagine they’ll do well with the 25m they have to spend this summer.

I don’t hate the Knicks. I long for them to be great. I watch this team, and I see that it’s not great and has virtually no potential to BE great. I think about how it could change that. If you’re satisfied with first round exits and think that’s exciting and wonderful, that’s great. I don’t blame you. It certainly is less painful than watching the mid-2000s Knicks. I’m happy for you, and you have the team you want now.

max fisher-cohen: OKC runs plays for Durant, but Durant can also play off the ball, which helps since Westbrook (like Lin and Stoudemire) is not an effective off ball player.

If you are unimpressed by Harris, Hayward and Millsap, you should be unimpressed by this team. What have they done to impress you?

Dallas, Houston and Phoenix are not young up and coming teams. Don’t twist my words. They are teams with a LOT of cap space. Dallas will probably sign Deron Williams this summer. Phoenix has stupid management, so who knows what they’ll do. Houston has a very intelligent and careful GM, so I imagine they’ll do well with the 25m they have to spend this summer.

I don’t hate the Knicks. I long for them to be great. I watch this team, and I see that it’s not great and has virtually no potential to BE great. I think about how it could change that. If you’re satisfied with first round exits and think that’s exciting and wonderful, that’s great. I don’t blame you. It certainly is less painful than watching the mid-2000s Knicks. I’m happy for you, and you have the team you want now.

BTW, wow is LAC losing they’re shit.

We have no idea if Lin can be a good off-ball player— I believe he can be excellent. Melo is a good off-ball player historically. Amar’e is one of the best.

bobneptune: i’m sure you are tired primarily because you are defending the indefensible. dolan has wrested defeat from the jaws of victory with his need for a “big star” last year to justify his renovations with an enormous ticket price hike. and the suckers keep buying a mediocre product at exorbitant prices.

there is nothing wrong with being the atlanta hawks of the last few years as long as you think being a slightly better than average team is a good result for blowing up 4 seasons (2 to get under the cap and 2 to put together this inflexible group).

been a knick fan since the days of jumpin johnny green and willie nauls. always will be. however, that doesn’t allow me to check logic and reason at the door.

please tell me why this group (sans the losses)will be better net year. expecting starks to appear from the grocery line, mason to come from turkey and another lin off the waiver wire???

There’s all the reason in the world to expect the Knicks to be much better next year.

ruruland: We have no idea if Lin can be a good off-ball player— I believe he can be excellent. Melo is a good off-ball player historically. Amar’e is one of the best.

Lin is the fulcrum of the offense– he can make this team great.

We’ll see, but I think you’re wrong (or maybe we won’t. Maybe there will just be more excuses). Stoudemire has never been a good off ball player unless you consider the semi-transition style hoops he got in Phoenix. Melo, at best, is an average off ball player. Lin was (briefly) an okay off ball player. Stoudemire can’t dribble and is a mediocre shooter. How do you foresee him succeeding off the ball? For wings, the primary question is, can you catch and shoot? If you can’t, there’s no need for the defense to close out hard, meaning you either take that jumpshot (something the defense is fine with) or you reset. Off ball cuts to the rim work when you can actually draw the defense out of the paint.

max fisher-cohen: Chandler will be 30 before next season starts. Players RARELY improve after age 24, the age Fields will be next year. Players generally start to decline at 28, the age Melo will be in a couple weeks. We have one quality young player in Lin whose best case scenario is probably a poor man’s Russell Westbrook (who is the same age, BTW, as Lin). Westbrook works in OKC because Durant doesn’t have to dominate the ball to be dominant. That is not the case with Anthony.

Shumpert is unlikely to be the same player he was this season for at least another 18 months (read: 2013/14 season).

The injuries are a poor excuse for this team’s record. We went 8-1 during Linsanity — Melo missed all those games, and Stoudemire missed half. We went 9-4 down the stretch with Stoudemire and Lin both hurt. Take out those two streaks, and the team has a record of 19-25. We might have missed the playoffs if “healthy”.

If we look at teams that won a similar # of games to NY, all of them are either very young, or look to have a ton of cap space:

max fisher-cohen: We’ll see, but I think you’re wrong (or maybe we won’t. Maybe there will just be more excuses). Stoudemire has never been a good off ball player unless you consider the semi-transition style hoops he got in Phoenix. Melo, at best, is an average off ball player. Lin was (briefly) an okay off ball player. Stoudemire can’t dribble and is a mediocre shooter. How do you foresee him succeeding off the ball? For wings, the primary question is, can you catch and shoot? If you can’t, there’s no need for the defense to close out hard, meaning you either take that jumpshot (something the defense is fine with) or you reset. Off ball cuts to the rim work when you can actually draw the defense out of the paint.

Excuses, eh? give me a break. Do we need to re-hash what’s happened this year and put it into the context of the rest of the teams in the playoffs?

No team that made the NBA playoffs had anywhere near as much adversity as the Knicks — not even close. No team IN THE playoffs had as much adversity as the Knicks.

Stoudemire is one of the game’s premier off-ball scorers. You just have to have a point guard and a balanced offense to get him scoring. You realize that he was a 600Ts guy since Woodson took over?

Lin has a game that suitable both as a primary ball-handler and as a weakside attacker. Westbrook would be excellent in many off-ball situations if others on offense created more defensive attention.

max fisher-cohen: We’ll see, but I think you’re wrong (or maybe we won’t. Maybe there will just be more excuses). Stoudemire has never been a good off ball player unless you consider the semi-transition style hoops he got in Phoenix. Melo, at best, is an average off ball player. Lin was (briefly) an okay off ball player. Stoudemire can’t dribble and is a mediocre shooter. How do you foresee him succeeding off the ball? For wings, the primary question is, can you catch and shoot? If you can’t, there’s no need for the defense to close out hard, meaning you either take that jumpshot (something the defense is fine with) or you reset. Off ball cuts to the rim work when you can actually draw the defense out of the paint.

Excuses, eh? give me a break. Do we need to re-hash what’s happened this year and put it into the context of the rest of the teams in the playoffs?

No team that made the NBA playoffs had anywhere near as much adversity as the Knicks — not even close. No team IN THE playoffs had as much adversity as the Knicks.

Stoudemire is one of the game’s premier off-ball scorers. You just have to have a point guard and a balanced offense to get him scoring. You realize that he was a 600Ts guy since Woodson took over?

Lin has a game that suitable both as a primary ball-handler and as a weakside attacker. Westbrook would be excellent in many off-ball situations if others on offense created more defensive attention. I should say, much of Wesbtrook’s success comes after ball reversals.

max fisher-cohen: We’ll see, but I think you’re wrong (or maybe we won’t. Maybe there will just be more excuses). Stoudemire has never been a good off ball player unless you consider the semi-transition style hoops he got in Phoenix. Melo, at best, is an average off ball player. Lin was (briefly) an okay off ball player. Stoudemire can’t dribble and is a mediocre shooter. How do you foresee him succeeding off the ball? For wings, the primary question is, can you catch and shoot? If you can’t, there’s no need for the defense to close out hard, meaning you either take that jumpshot (something the defense is fine with) or you reset. Off ball cuts to the rim work when you can actually draw the defense out of the paint.

Actually amare has a good midrange jumpshot. He gets a lot of looks off the ball on on curls at the elbow. And he’s an above average pnr roll guy. Melo is a great spot up midrange shooter and he makes the defense close out hard, leading to the paint being open. Hence Nene’s outstanding FG %. Hmm, what are we missing?….oh right, to play off the ball, you need a guy who can handle the ball instead and get you the ball. A point guard.

max fisher-cohen: I’m not judging them on that performance. I’m judging them on a season and a half. What playoff video?

I recently posted melo’s 39 pt game against LA where he primarily worked off-the ball on the weakside…..He was put back on the strong side because the Lakers eventually adjusted their defense — but a strong-side attack of Lin/Chandler/Amar’e will create a much higher percentage of good looks for Melo.

I think we can be much better next year with a proper training camp. It will hurt that Shump won’t be a part of it though. A HUGE open question is what we do for three point shooting. We were already one of the worst three point shooting teams in the league and we’re most likely losing both our top three point shooters (Novak and Smith). If teams were desperate enough to start and pay Extra E, they’ll pay to get the best 3pt shooter in the NBA.
That aside, our starters who are coming back all have important holes in their games they need to close if we want to truly be an ELITE team. If they don’t we’ll be a better team, maybe the #4 or #5 team in the East…but just a pretender

Lin – decision-making in traffic, going left, jump shooting
Shump – shot quality, shot consistency
Amare – improved man on man defense and summer-long tutoring in HELP defense (this is huge, or he should be coming of the bench)
Melo – get in better shape to start, consistent effort on defense, greater focus on play making for others, improve efficiency
Chandler – improve non-dunk finishing ability, catching the ball in traffic (getting open and being ready to catch), get one low post move –a hook or something – even Perkins has one low post move

The team was dominant ala 2004 pistons. I’ve cited the stats before — I don’t feel like digging them up again — but if we performed like we did in those 6 games, we would have been far and away the best defensive team in the league. Do you really believe that that’s sustainable?

Regarding Stoudemire playing effectively under Woodson — I feel it’s more a case of our perimeter shooters coming to life (again, I’ve posted these stats before as well, and they are RIDICULOUS. Shumpert, Davis, Bibby were all like 10% better post D’Antoni, and Novak got a lot more minutes). I do believe Stoudemire/Lin can be good. I don’t believe Melo can be good while they are good and vice versa because Melo is not comfortable off the ball. One game against the lakers doesn’t change the fact that one of the biggest reasons we don’t have MDA as coach and don’t have a higher playoff seed is because Melo struggled off the ball and took out his frustration on the coach.

The team was dominant ala 2004 pistons. I’ve cited the stats before — I don’t feel like digging them up again — but if we performed like we did in those 6 games, we would have been far and away the best defensive team in the league. Do you really believe that that’s sustainable?

Regarding Stoudemire playing effectively under Woodson — I feel it’s more a case of our perimeter shooters coming to life (again, I’ve posted these stats before as well, and they are RIDICULOUS. Shumpert, Davis, Bibby were all like 10% better post D’Antoni, and Novak got a lot more minutes). I do believe Stoudemire/Lin can be good. I don’t believe Melo can be good while they are good and vice versa because Melo is not comfortable off the ball. One game against the lakers doesn’t change the fact that one of the biggest reasons we don’t have MDA as coach and don’t have a higher playoff seed is because Melo struggled off the ball and took out his frustration on the coach.