Brandt stuck Josh Freeman at the bottom of his “C” level tier at No. 14, and if you consider all the NFL starters 30 years old or older, it’s clear that Brandt believes Freeman’s inconsistency and 24-32 career record as a Bucs starter can not be brushed off. Freeman even checks in below Alex Smith and Ryan Tannehill. The horror!

Joe doesn’t agree with the list. Joe would have a seizure if the Bucs traded Freeman for Alex Smith or Ryan Tannehill.

However, Brandt’s evaluation does make Joe wonder what other NFL personnel types think of Freeman and how that might factor into any future Freeman-Bucs contract talks. Regardless, Freeman truly is in a make-or-break year. He’s run out of excuses.

If everyone else is seeing this why aren't we? It seems we're just content at mediocre at the qb position.

Again with Alex Smith! This guy got the bench because he would leave plays on the field by playing soft and not trying to make a mistake. Using his top 5 run game and his number 1 ranked D.

Josh has had none of that with his time in Tampa. He had a head coach who wasn't ready to be one, playing with guys as young as him until this year with Vjax. Let this kid play ball. He had 27 Tds this year. I never in my life understand why you guys and almost every Tampa bay fan hates Freeman. This kid had a ****** team around him until now. This next year I'll say we will have the talent level of a NY Gmen or Bears or Pack. 49ers are on another level right now. Give this kid a shot with some ball players

It's not a knock against Alex Smith but didn't he get benched b/c the 49ers wanted to get the ball down the field? I know money and seeing if the young QB they had drafted 2 years ago was NFL material were some contributing factors, but with our 2 outside threats great down the field on deep passes and not a real threat at TE, doesn't that seem like a recipe for an implosion?

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Originally Posted by Raheem Morris

Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats and we'll keep looking at wins.

Guy I now want in the second round is Datone Jones. I live in LA and love, watch Ucla. This guy played like a beast this year. He could put on another ten pounds easy and play inside and as a power end.

Guy I now want in the second round is Datone Jones. I live in LA and love, watch Ucla. This guy played like a beast this year. He could put on another ten pounds easy and play inside and as a power end.

Watched a couple games and senior bowl. Nothing really wowed me about him. He's a strong guy who seems like a run defender. Didn't seem much of a pass rusher something that we need. If we take any defensive end it's ziggy Ansah. That guy has stud written all over him.

Again with Alex Smith! This guy got the bench because he would leave plays on the field by playing soft and not trying to make a mistake. Using his top 5 run game and his number 1 ranked D.

Josh has had none of that with his time in Tampa. He had a head coach who wasn't ready to be one, playing with guys as young as him until this year with Vjax. Let this kid play ball. He had 27 Tds this year. I never in my life understand why you guys and almost every Tampa bay fan hates Freeman. This kid had a ****** team around him until now. This next year I'll say we will have the talent level of a NY Gmen or Bears or Pack. 49ers are on another level right now. Give this kid a shot with some ball players

First of all I don't hate the guy. I don't hate anyone. So using that word is pretty strong and also inaccurate.

Secondly I'm judging his play on the field. Stats mean nothing when you're not making plays for your team. The young excuses have to go. 4 years into te league he still is inaccurate he still stares down Wrs. He misses easy throw. You say Alex Smth leaves plays on the field? And freeman doesn't?

I just see too many buc fans sugar coating his play. Fact is: I don't see this team going anywhere with freeman. You don't see that poise or confidenc in him. When you need him he gets rattled and flustered.

I think we are focusing on the wrong thing because the REAL problem is our defense is quite up to the level were it can win games. If it could our record would of been 10-6 and we might of made the playoffs. Buuut would of, could of, should of and focusing on the present and future I say get Freeman a decent TE and focus our draft on building our defense and building depth behind our starters.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Raheem Morris

Stats are for losers, so you keep looking at stats and we'll keep looking at wins.

I think we are focusing on the wrong thing because the REAL problem is our defense is quite up to the level were it can win games. If it could our record would of been 10-6 and we might of made the playoffs. Buuut would of, could of, should of and focusing on the present and future I say get Freeman a decent TE and focus our draft on building our defense and building depth behind our starters.

I'm not sure I agree 100%. Freeman was bottom 5 in 3rd down compleyion rate at under 34 %. That's awful when your in that bottom tier with Sanchez and Fitzpatrick. You're not helping a struggling defense stay off the field. He added to te problem.

Guys so Mike Williams started contract talks with the Bucs. Tampa Tribune is reporting that he'll be looking for 7 million a season being that Robert Meachem got 6.5 million a year.

Now we know Mike Wallace is looking for Vjax money at 11 million per.

Would you give Williams 7 million a season? Or sign the better player in Wallace for only 4 million more a year. I'm saying this cause its not like we are hurting in the cap room. After we cut Wright and Black we'll be close to 40 million.

Guys so Mike Williams started contract talks with the Bucs. Tampa Tribune is reporting that he'll be looking for 7 million a season being that Robert Meachem got 6.5 million a year.

Now we know Mike Wallace is looking for Vjax money at 11 million per.

Would you give Williams 7 million a season? Or sign the better player in Wallace for only 4 million more a year. I'm saying this cause its not like we are hurting in the cap room. After we cut Wright and Black we'll be close to 40 million.

No to mike Wallace. Williams is a completely different wr. Wallace is more of a speedster down the field type while Williams is the better route runner and red žone target who can also make plays down the field.

I love Mike Williams. But something's bug me about him. When he goes down field he never really beats his guy. It always seem to be a 50/50 ball that he out jumps the CB for. Also doesn't have a lot of Yac. Again he does have Yac like in the KC game when jump over the CB and took to the house. But I'm talking 5 yards turning into 45.

The way I look at it is Williams is a top end number 2 WR and Wallace is a low end number 1 so is that worth 4 million a season? That's up to who's paying it.

I love Mike Williams. But something's bug me about him. When he goes down field he never really beats his guy. It always seem to be a 50/50 ball that he out jumps the CB for. Also doesn't have a lot of Yac. Again he does have Yac like in the KC game when jump over the CB and took to the house. But I'm talking 5 yards turning into 45.

The way I look at it is Williams is a top end number 2 WR and Wallace is a low end number 1 so is that worth 4 million a season? That's up to who's paying it.

Dude you do not watch games fully do you? Hes fantastic that he wins those jump balls. He's got very good hands and a reliable route runner. If you've seen some f the poor throws freeman makes? More times than not Williams and Jackson beat their man. Look at the Atlanta game. Williams beats Samuel burns him and freeman overshoots him by 10 yards.

Majority of the time it was him and Jackson bailing Freeman out.

No mike Wallace. I personally think he's overrated and vincet Jackson money would be a terrible decision. He's not as polished as Jackson in every area.

Guys what about Kenny Vaccaro? I know all of you are going to say not another safety, but 1. This guy would be perfect next Barron 2. He would fill two spots we can play him at FS and in nickel or dime move him to the slot and bring Black in at FS.

Also If this guy graded out higher than any CB then why not take the BPA?

Guys what about Kenny Vaccaro? I know all of you are going to say not another safety, but 1. This guy would be perfect next Barron 2. He would fill two spots we can play him at FS and in nickel or dime move him to the slot and bring Black in at FS.

Also If this guy graded out higher than any CB then why not take the BPA?

I like vaccaro. But I need to watch more film. Some sate saying top 10. I don't see it personally. I have late 1st early 2nd.

Guy I now want in the second round is Datone Jones. I live in LA and love, watch Ucla. This guy played like a beast this year. He could put on another ten pounds easy and play inside and as a power end.

I was thinking about him as a 3Tech all week at the Senior Bowl. None of the NFLN crew mentioned it, but he was a terror all week.

No to mike Wallace. Williams is a completely different wr. Wallace is more of a speedster down the field type while Williams is the better route runner and red žone target who can also make plays down the field.

Also 4 million more is a lot of money.

Yes, but Wallace has the one element that Williams doesn't, the ability to gain separation. Wallace is a speedster that can get down the field in a hurry. If we were to sign him it would probably change VJax into his next role earlier than expected, the possession WR that has to work the middle and make his money the tough way. I'm fine with that. In the meantime, signing Wallace would immediately move Williams into the slot because he is still under contract for one more season.

That being said, I seriously doubt, with both Jackson and WIlliams under contract, that they pursue Wallace. I would love to see the team to add a Marqise Goodwin, shifty/explosive slot WR around rounds 3 or 4. I think the team DOES need to get smaller in the WR corps as the team is filled with 6'+ long striders that don't gain much separation in the middle of the field as they all play an outside the numbers type game. Wallace also fits into that mold... except being over 6'.

Dude you do not watch games fully do you? Hes fantastic that he wins those jump balls. He's got very good hands and a reliable route runner. If you've seen some f the poor throws freeman makes? More times than not Williams and Jackson beat their man. Look at the Atlanta game. Williams beats Samuel burns him and freeman overshoots him by 10 yards.

Majority of the time it was him and Jackson bailing Freeman out.

No mike Wallace. I personally think he's overrated and vincet Jackson money would be a terrible decision. He's not as polished as Jackson in every area.

I agree to no on Wallace, but share similar sentiments on Williams, he doesn't gain a lot of separation. His routes are often far from pristine but as far as bailing Freeman out, yes, he does that on jump balls, but on shorter throws he often struggles to attack the ball and make the catch when contested. Why I agree to "no on Wallace" is because of the money we have tied up in the position already and how Wallace doesn't offer us anything new other than speed, like Williams and VJax, he is not the type of WR that makes his living over the middle, he is an outside the numbers flier. If Williams wasn't already under contract I would be all for it, but I don't see Williams fulfilling the slot role very well at this point.

Guys what about Kenny Vaccaro? I know all of you are going to say not another safety, but 1. This guy would be perfect next Barron 2. He would fill two spots we can play him at FS and in nickel or dime move him to the slot and bring Black in at FS.

Also If this guy graded out higher than any CB then why not take the BPA?

I don't see Vaccaro as better than a late 1st. I also don't see FS as a huge need even if Barber doesn't come back. Good FS's aren't the hardest position to find in free agency and a rookie coming in and being adequate at the position is rare. Typically, rookie FS's struggle and take several seasons before they are ready. I would rather us grab a player that can help us, not just start but be an upgrade, right away. Guys like CB Trufant, DT Richardson, ...maybe even DE Ansah could help us right away in round 1... guys like CB Poyer, LB Greene, TE Ertz could help us right away in round 2. WR Marqise Goodwin could help us right away on special teams and in the slot in round 3.

I think a good development S prospect can be found in round 4 either in guys converting from CB (which is how half of good FS's are found-Dexter Jackson, Dwight Smith, Damien Robinson, Tanard Jackson were all CBs in college, Pro Bowler and free agent Jarius Byrd was also a CB in college). Wreh-Wilson of UConn, Sanders Commings of Georgia, or regular S's like Duke Williams, Johnathan Cyprien, and Shamarko Thomas will be available in round 4.