DistroWatch Weekly

A weekly opinion column and a summary of events from the distribution world

DistroWatch Weekly

DistroWatch Weekly, Issue 96, 18 April 2005

What is this "Linux" you speak of?
-- message in my inbox

Welcome to this year's 16th issue of DistroWatch Weekly! Everyone who visited last week is no doubt aware that the indefatigable Ladislav Bodnar was called away to Slovakia due to a family emergency, leaving me (Robert Storey) to write DWW, and Dr. Zhu posting the daily news.

Just to add a little more challenge to the job, I caught the flu about two days ago. I'm sitting here in front of my computer, propped up with pillows and duct tape, sipping herbal tea and swallowing some pink tablets that my local pharmacist assures me can cure anything from bubonic plague to diaper rash. I don't want to know the ingredients. Duty calls. Come rain, hail, sleet or script kiddies, the DistroWatch Weekly News will be published!

Now let's see a show of hands...How many of you still want to be web administrators?...

...OK, for those of you who haven't already clicked to another page, here is the news.

If you've spent much time working with computers, chances are good that you've used products made by VIA Technologies - even if you've never heard of this company. Yet you won't see VIA branded computers on the shelf at your local nerd shop - unlike Dell, IBM and HP, VIA doesn't sell their own name-brand machines. Rather, this Taiwan-based company is a major manufacturer of motherboards, motherboard chip-sets, CPUs, and other "innards" that keep your computer purring.

Despite the low profile, VIA was very much in the news this week when the company announced that it was open-sourcing its Linux drivers. The story got Slashdotted, OSNews'd, and now DistroWatched. However, VIA has a lot more to offer the geek crowd than free hardware drivers.

VIA seems to be betting the farm on open source, even more so than IBM. But it wasn't always so. In the past, the company had ambitions of overtaking Intel in the Windows-compatible chip-set market. Perhaps VIA could have even pulled it off, but they forgot the old American corporate rallying cry - "those who can, do, those who can't, sue." VIA got dragged into court repeatedly by Intel (Note that they aren't the only ones - AMD has felt Intel's wrath in the courtroom).

Initially, VIA won a big victory over Intel in a patent infringement suit. Unfortunately, Intel didn't stop there, and hammered VIA with other lawsuits for such offenses as making chip-sets compatible with Intel processors. Although VIA initially fought these ridiculous legal shenanigans, the company eventually had to make a settlement after Intel started threatening VIA's customers (ie motherboard manufacturers). This has eaten significantly into VIA's profits, and made the company shy of trying to do anything too innovative with Intel's CPUs.

In the end, VIA seems to have found its niche by not competing directly head-to-head with Intel. VIA makes chip-sets for such things as Ethernet cards, video cards, and other assorted devices. But what really keeps Linux and BSD fans in thrall are VIA's mini-itx boards equipped with low-power processors. VIA first got into the CPU market when they purchased Cyrix in 1999 - since then they have taken their processors in an entirely different direction from Intel and AMD.

The Mighty Mini-ITX

Mini-ITX boards are small. Just how small depends on which model you buy. Also, the amount of power these boards draw will depend on which CPU you install - the Eden/C3 is so low-power (4 watts) that it doesn't require a fan. Furthermore, with the smaller boards no power supply is required - you can run directly off a 12-volt car battery if you want to.

Not surprisingly, these low-power processors are not terribly fast, though they are gradually gaining speed with each new model. Right now, most are in the Pentium-II class in terms of performance. However, just in the past week, VIA launched their EPIA DP-310 board which can accommodate two processors. These boards seem to be just made for Linux and the BSDs, which now support SMP.

Which is all very nice, but still not enough to deliver top-level performance. If it's speed you want, go for an AMD64 (or G5 if you're a PPC fan). Fans of mini-ITX aren't interested in setting speed records, they're interested in being able to run a computer in a car; in a remote location on solar cells; in a specialized application such as a home-built firewall; where a silent fanless machine is desired; or just about anywhere your imagination takes you. VIA is constantly being surprised by the uses their customers come up with for their hardware.

Now what I really want to see is a 64-bit Eden/C3 - it would be the greatest thing since microwave popcorn. I've already put it on my Christmas shopping list (the 64-bit Eden/C3, not the popcorn). With luck, maybe VIA will sell it giftwrapped.

As somebody once said, good things come in small packages.

* * * * *

Brazil - Domino Theory Revisited

"Do Not Think There Are No Crocodiles Because the Water is Calm"
-- Mayan Proverb

Andrew Tridgell (and friends) gave us Samba, but Brazil gave us the Samba. Brazil has also given us some fine food like feijoadas, pao de queijo and sago cream, but these days the country is giving Microsoft indigestion.

A recent New York Times article was entitled Brazil: Free Software's Biggest and Best Friend. Beyond the first paragraph, the article costs money to read online, but you needn't reach for the credit card - I'll summarize the plot. The author was writing about PC Conectado (Connected PC), a national scheme to bring low-cost computers to the masses. Under the plan, Brazilian consumers would be able to buy their first computer by making installment payments of approximately 55 reals (about US$20) per month for two years.

Nowadays, you can scrape together a basic desktop computer for less than US$500. Many Brazilian families could afford that with low monthly payments, but it would be a definite economic hardship if they had to shell out an additional US$200 for Windows and double that amount for Office. Even with the standard 50% discount one gets on bundled software, it's still a lot of cash for the working poor. The traditional solution is to use pirated software. However, the Business Software Alliance has other ideas, and (mostly through the US government) has been leaning hard on countries like Brazil, China and elsewhere to crack down on software piracy.

Which is where Linux comes in. Brazil is the home of a very popular Linux distro, Conectiva (now Mandriva after merging with Mandrake). Brazil's National Institute of Information Technology, which administers the PC Conectado project, has all but decided to install free software on the machines. Just think what a great slogan it would make: Help fight software piracy -- use Linux!

Not surprisingly, Microsoft is alarmed by this, and has been pressuring the Brazilian government to consider its proposals to bundle a cheaper, stripped down version of Windows with the machines. Officially, the government has not yet committed itself to Linux and is considering Microsoft's proposal. Privately, most Brazilians aware of the issue recognize that a Linux-based solution would save the country tons of money, and would also help develop a local software industry. However, one should not be overly optimistic that common sense will prevail. Remember the Golden Rule: Whoever has the gold, makes the rules.

Brazil is one of the world's largest countries, and Microsoft doesn't want to "lose" it. Among Microsofties, one hears whispers of the Domino Theory - the idea that if one country falls, others will topple like a row of dominos. Surely this thought is keeping some folks in Redmond awake at night.

* * * * *

Ian Speaks

When Ian Murdock speaks, geeks listen. After all, Ian earned his geek credentials by doing something most of us could only dream about - he created Debian. Indeed, the ian in Debian is named for him; the Deb part is for his wife, Debra.

Lately, Ian has had a lot to say about Ubuntu, and not all of it was warm and fuzzy.

"If anything, Ubuntu's popularity is a net negative for Debian," Ian said in an interview with InternetNews.com. "It's diverged so far from Sarge that packages built for Ubuntu often don't work on Sarge. And given the momentum behind Ubuntu, more and more packages are being built like this. The result is a potential compatibility nightmare."

It should be noted that Ubuntu is released completely under the GPL, so all the goodness from the Ubuntu developers can flow freely back to Debian. And vice versa. Unfortunately, Debian developers (nearly 1000 of them) are almost entirely unpaid volunteers, whereas Ubuntu has some money behind it thanks to the generosity of philanthropist geek Mark Shuttleworth who is funding Canonical. Thanks to a combination of cash, Mark's focus, and Debian's insistence on supporting 11 architectures, Ubuntu is developing faster than Debian. Whereas Debian releases "when it's ready", Ubuntu is committed to one release every six months. Which is why it isn't possible to simply take the Ubuntu package repositories and just load them into Debian Unstable.

Ian continued in his interview, "But what we really need right now as a community is for Sarge to be released. In that respect, Ubuntu's popularity is more harmful than helpful."

Harsh words, but Ian held out an olive branch when he published this on his weblog:

"Here's a suggestion on how we can avert the crisis before it becomes one: Provide a Debian compatibility runtime and development environment for Ubuntu, and make the development environment the default environment. That way, when developers build packages on Ubuntu, they can be installed as-is on Debian as well. Provide a Ubuntu-specific development environment too, so developers can take advantage of Ubuntu-specific features that aren't in Debian yet, but only use those features when you absolutely must. Everyone wins. If you're really interested in joining forces with UserLinux, this would be a great start. I'm sure Bruce would agree. You'd have my interest as well."

In an interview published this week in Linux Magazine, Branden Robinson (Debian Project Leader) put it succinctly. "I reiterate that this is a relatively minor problem. For the most part, I see high levels of cooperation, much friendliness and mutual respect, and good code flowing both ways. I think there are few challenges posed by Ubuntu that Debian can't meet with a Sarge release and a refactored release process."

Released Last Week

Archie Live CD 0.4.1

Archie 0.4.1 has been released: "Archie - Arch Live project has replaced AL-AMLUG Live CD. The former live CD of Arch had the look but not the speed of native Arch Linux, so Archie is developed on a completely different technology. Also with new appearance... Archie is a complete live Arch Linux system (v0.7) to be run from a CD/USB, built with the KISS philosophy in mind." Read the full announcement. Download: archie-0.4.1-xfce.iso (325MB). The package list and a few screenshots can be found on this page.

Linux Caixa Mágica 10 Desktop

Linux Caixa Mágica 10 Desktop has been released. Linux Caixa Mágica is a Portuguese distribution based on SUSE LINUX; the latest release provides an improved installation method and many user-friendly enhancements designed for non-technical users. More information is available in the release announcement and the product features page (both links in Portuguese). A boxed edition of Caixa Mágica 10 can be obtained from the distribution's online store (€98); alternatively, an unsupported, single-CD edition can be downloaded from here: CMdesk10_final.iso.

SUSE LINUX 9.3 Live DVD

Novell has released a live DVD edition of SUSE LINUX 9.3: "For rich, reliable and secure home computing, there's no better choice than SUSE LINUX Professional 9.3. It provides everything today's Linux user needs for home computing and computing-on-the-go. This live DVD will boot directly from the DVD without modifying the hard disk. It enables users to learn about and test the functions and applications of this new system without installing it on the hard disk and consequently offers an easy and convenient way to review the operating system. In addition to English, German, Spanish, Italian, French, and Dutch, the live DVD supports a variety of other languages." See this readme file for more details. Download: SL-9.3-LiveDVD-i386.iso (1,412MB) or SL-9.3-LiveDVD-amd64.iso (1,416MB).

Damn Small Linux 1.0.1

Damn Small Linux 1.0.1 is released, soon after its 1.0 version. From the release notes: "md5sum options made compatible with both the default (busybox) and gnu versions; nfs fixed missing directory; changed frugal_instal.sh to use sfdisk instead of fdisk. Should help install on newer larger drives." Download: dsl-1.0.1.iso (49.1MB). Damn Small Linux is a very versatile 50MB mini desktop oriented Linux distribution. Other than a nearly complete desktop and many command line tools, it also has the ability to act as an SSH/FTP/HTTPD server right off of a live CD.

NetBSD 2.0.2

The NetBSD Project is pleased to announce that update 2.0.2 of the NetBSD operating system is now available: "NetBSD 2.0.2 is the second security/critical update of the NetBSD 2.0 release branch. This represents a selected subset of fixes deemed critical in nature for stability or security reasons. This is also the first binary security/critical update since NetBSD 2.0. NetBSD 2.0.1 was tagged within the CVS repository, and is available from there as a source update, but its full binary release was preempted by patches incorporated into 2.0.2 and build hardware issues." Read the full announcement and check the complete list of changes. Download (i386): i386cd.iso (171MB), also available via BitTorrent.

Mandriva Linux Limited Edition 2005

Mandriva Linux Limited Edition 2005 has been released: "Following the recent new roadmap announcement, Mandriva (pronounced "Man-dree-vah"!) Linux Limited Edition 2005 is a transitional release... built to increase and optimize performance: it has been designed with x86-64 technology in mind and has support for dual-core technology, allowing the use of the most powerful applications on advanced new processors. Special optimizations also enhance the overall speed delivered by the system. For instance, KDE is 10% faster." Other exciting features include better support for removable devices, full support for Adaptec Host RAID controllers, extended recognition for the most recent flat screen monitors, support of the XBox console, and DKMS which allows kernel modules to be dynamically built. It is based on kernel 2.6.11.6, KDE 3.3.2 plus backports from 3.4, GNOME 2.8.3, GCC 3.4.3, and OpenOffice.org 1.1.4. This dream-Linux distribution is immediately available for Mandriva Club members, and is also available for preorder as a DVD set. Read the announcement and visit the distribution's home page.

Linux LiveCD Router 2.0.8 has been released: "This version features a new kernel 2.4.29, minor default config changes, a new module for accounting of SIP call forwarding, an option to save the base configuration to hard disk or flash disk instead of floppy, and the option of using a USB flash disk instead of a hard disk." Iptables is also updated. Download: cdrouter208.iso (88.6MB). Linux LiveCD Router is a Linux distribution designed to share a broadband connection over WiFi; find out more on the distribution's web site.

Kate Linux 2.0

Kate Linux 2.0 has been released: "The new version contains many improvements and modifications over Kate 1.0. The system has been reconstructed from the ground up and is no longer based on Slackware. Kate 2.0 became much more comprehensive, now it contains greater set of programs and libraries." See release notes and the screenshots page for more information. Download: Kate_Linux_Install_CD1_2.0.iso (656MB), Kate_Linux_Install_CD2_2.0.iso (697MB).

Puppy Linux 1.0.1

Puppy Linux 1.0.1 has been released. Package managers PupGet and DotPup feature in this release, allowing very easy installation and removal of packages. Also included are the full Mozilla suite and lots of little bug fixes. To ensure a correct upgrade, "If you have been testing version 1.0.1rc1, please edit /etc/puppyversion and change it from "101" back to "100", without on end of line. Also, as a precaution, please uninstall any packages installed by PupGet and completely erase all files in /root/.usr." More information can be found in the release notes, such as obtaining the Opera flavour of Puppy. Download: puppy-1.0.1-mozilla.iso (60.2MB).

Last week I wrote a mini-review of FreeBSD 5.4-RC1, which began with the sentence, "Here at DistroWatch we've gone gaga over FreeBSD." Well, gaga is slightly worse for the wear, as we had quite a major hiatus which we attribute to a FreeBSD bug.

Last week, a few of you noticed there was something funny going on. For one thing, the DistroWatch Weekly News icon was linking to the previous week's news. This wasn't a bug in itself - it's just that we couldn't update the "current" symbolic link because we couldn't log onto the server. This was also a problem with some readers' comments getting mangled - again, it wasn't FreeBSD itself that caused the problem, is that we couldn't log on to fix it. What happened was that sshd simply died, locking us out - thus we couldn't perform even the simplest system administration tasks. This was especially inconvenient since I had a hard time reaching Ladislav, and only he is able to contact our web hosting service in the USA.

Eventually things got fixed. The sysadmins at the hosting service told us that this seems to be happening frequently on many FreeBSD servers, and the only cure would be to reboot. They thought it was something to do with reaching the limit of ssh connections. A reboot did indeed fix the problem.

Later, I posted this experience on the FreeBSD mailing list, pointing out what our hosting service said. One user who had experienced the same problem several times came back with an alternative theory. He didn't think it was a physical connection limit, but rather that FreeBSD wasn't holding up well to a worm attack:

I think a safer bet is this worm that tries to compromise servers by ssh. Perhaps the ssh server isn't cleaning up the failed connections well enough, or maybe it's detecting an attack and simply shutting down. This worm can generate a thousand or more connection attempts in a single session, so I can see how a tiny memory leak could grow into a big problem in a hurry.

I should point out that our 5.3 server ran flawlessly for five months, and this was the first problem we encountered. We will report the bug, though it's conceivable - even likely - that the bug has already been squashed in 5.4. Those who have encountered this problem may want to consider upgrading to 5.4 when it is released.

For those who haven't already discovered it, Kanotix is a live CD distro heavily influenced by Knoppix. Like Knoppix, it defaults to a KDE interface, but you can enter "cheatcodes" on the boot line to enable many other options (such as an IceWM or command-line interface, for example).

While running Kanotix as a live CD is almost nirvana, it really sparkles when you install it to your hard drive. Install, reboot, and you'll have a very up-to-date Debian, with a number of unique features you won't easily find elsewhere. The list of benefits Kanotix offers starts with amazing hardware detection, followed by a well thought-out selection of apps, plus a number of unique script files to polish the user experience.

I reviewed Kanotix on DistroWatch last October - you can read it here. Since then, Kanotix has done nothing but get better (if that could be possible!). I'm not exaggerating when I say that Kanotix is my favorite desktop distro (as opposed to a server distro, which is another story). Therefore, I didn't hesitate a moment when I learned that Kanotix 2005-02 was released - I headed straight for the (overburdened) download servers at once. It's now happily installed on my laptop, and I thought that this would be an opportune time to report on what's new.

Highlights

Kanotix 2005-02 was released last week (2005-04-09). It should be noted that this is a 32-bit implementation (there is a Kanotix 64 2005-01, but not 2005-02 yet). Currently, there are no plans for a PPC version.

With this release, the complete distro is based on Debian/sid (even XFree). A number of WLAN drivers were added, or one can use NdisWrapper if necessary (which wraps Windows drivers).

I was a little disappointed to find that my favorite editor, Emacs, was replaced by a symbolic link. That is, /usr/bin/emacs is a symbolic link to /etc/alternatives/emacs, which in turn is a symbolic link to /usr/bin/e3em. I realize that Emacs is a huge program and takes up too much space for a live CD, but a better option might have been to use Zile which is a stripped-down Emacs look-alike. Except for this one little annoyance, I really couldn't find anything to complain about. Of course, if you install to a hard drive, you can do an apt-get install emacs21, or xemacs21. There are about 15 CDs worth of packages from the Debian unstable archives that will work on Kanotix - get the CDs, call the pizza delivery guy, and you'll never have to leave home again.

Kanotix is very easy to configure, and even newbies should not have much difficulty using it. However, for those who like a challenge, there is plenty of complex stuff to play around with if you drill down a little. In particular, propellerheads will enjoy two unusual features of this distro: the unionfs and scripts.

Unionfs

This experimental feature is also seen in Knoppix 3.8. However, the Kanotix implementation is different in that it is optional. Unionfs is an overlay filesystem which makes it possible to use apt-get live or install nvidia or radeon drivers in live mode. Kanotix's nvidia/radeon scripts detect the live mode and activate unionfs if needed. Otherwise, the way to enable unionfs is simply to type this cheatcode on the boot command line:

unionfs

By using this cheatcode, file changes will be stored at /tmp/unionfs (which will be lost after poweroff).

If you do not use the cheatcode at bootup time, you can still activate unionfs in live mode by opening any browser and typing klik://unionfs. However, this sets the unionfs into the home directory (rather than /tmp/unionfs as occurs with the cheatcode). Files would be stored to the hard drive (or floppy, usb memory stick, etc) when being used in combination with a persistent /home.

There exists two additional options to make a more permanent unionfs: unionrw and unionro. The first can be created with this cheatcode:

unionrw

The unionrw cheat can be used in several ways:

1) Point to a partition on the hard drive
2) Point to a loop file (like an ext2 loopback file)
3) Point to a directory

All three ways work to permanently store changes to a drive you designate - if you always use the same cheatcode you can have custom program selection at the place given by the user. This does not store the /home directly, you have to use the home cheat for that.

As already mentioned, there is a third cheatcode:

unionro

This is basically like unionrw, but you are not able to overwrite files in the place where you've stored them. However you could combine a new unionrw and the unionro cheatcode at the same time. Not everyone will find this useful, but remember, this is all experimental.
Note that none of these cheatcodes are mentioned in the help file that is visible when you press F1 when booting Kanotix.

For those who understand it, unionfs offers a number of interesting possibilities. For example, it would be even possible to erase packages in live mode and then install Kanotix to the hard drive (so that hd install has less packages than a full install). Users could provide kicklists (similar to Red Hat's kickstart) for special purposes.

Of course, all this will probably prove a little intimidating for first-time users - most people will just want to boot and shoot. So if you feel that unionfs is mind-boggling overkill, feel free to ignore it.

Kanotix - Not Just Another Pretty Face

Scripts

A unique feature of Kanotix which I neglected to mention in my earlier review is that it comes with a large number of specialized scripts. Most of these were written by Joerg Schirottke (Kanotix's creator), but a few originated elsewhere. These scripts can all be found in /usr/local/bin, and there are currently 38 of them. They are not documented anywhere, so below I have included a brief description of each (thanks to Joerg for his assistance with this). So without further ado:

1) apache-start.bash

Sets current IP in apache config and starts it.

2) capi-isdnconf.bash

GUI for (AVM) Adapters for dial-in via ISDN and capi

3) detect-fc.bash

Detects AVM FritzCards (runs at vt10 when CD is started)

4) detect-ltmodem.sh

Called automatically when specific Lucent Modem string is found to enable that winmodem.

5) devmap_mknod.sh

Not Joerg's script. Purpose is to create devices for devicemapper/LVM.

6) dvb-nexus

Script executed with dvb-nexus load when card found would which could be a DVB card.

7) dvb-pctvsat

Same for PCTVSat DVB cards.

8) eagle-pppoeconf.bash

Like No. 2 above, but just for Eagle Chip-Set (AT-AR215) DSL adapters.

9) fcdsl-pppoeconf.bash

Like No. 2, just for DSL Mode.

10) fix-5b-mouse.sh

After apt-get update and hd install, run this script to enable the two additional mouse buttons of a 5-button usb mouse (ps2 connected you need manual changes to /etc/X11/XF86Config-4). Then you can use BACK/FORWARD in a web browser just like Windows.

11) fix-dpi-kdm.bash

Sets preferred DPI setting for X. 72 is what is used from CD or by the installer. 100 is default of that script (useful for 1280x1024 tft displays). Use any number you want and restart X later.

12) fix-dvb-old.sh

Not Joerg's script and probably will be removed. It was used to switch between old and new dvb drivers.

13) fix-dvb.sh

Similar to No. 12, just for new drivers.

14) fix-motd.sh

Changes the message of the day - updated kernel info.

15) fix-ssh.sh

Not really needed as the installer does it or ssh start, but creates the needed keys.

16) fix-time.sh

Connects to timeserver and sets time and sets startup links for ntpdate (usefull after tzsetup).

17) fix-xv-local.bash

Special purpose script if you have xv problems with nvidia driver and apps like xawvt. Must not be executed as root but as standard user (local is the keyword for that).

Live installer for f-prot. Even better, in a browser enter: klik://f-prot

21) install-kernel-source-vanilla.sh

Downloads and patches the kernel sources matching the current kernel. With manual changes you can use it for any kernel ever created for Kanotix.

22) install-nvidia-debian.sh

Installs nvidia drivers. Use with sudo in live mode or login to vt1 (ctrl-alt-f1) after hd install.

23) install-radeon-debian.sh

Same as No. 22 but install radeon drivers for radoen 8500 and up. Required for 3D for 9500 and up.

24) install-xmbmon.sh

Demo script that works as root + local to download + compile (x)mbmon with small patching.

25) kanotix-irc.sh

Enters Kanotix irc channel (even in text mode).

26) make-qt-deb.sh

Demo script to create deb packages automated (well right now the headers are removed, but could be installed using this list):

http://kanotix.com/files/fix/remove-devel.txt

apt-get install $(<remove-devel.txt)

27) masquerade.sh

Sample script to enable NAT on ppp0, could be easily changed.

28) my-pppconf.bash

Like No. 2, for standard modems

29) my-pppoeconf.bash

Replacement for pppoeconf.

30) qcset

No script, it's a tool from the quickcam driver.

31) remove-bad-links.sh

Internal use basically for removing bad links when mastering a CD.

32) remove-gateway.sh

Small script to remove gateway entry in /etc/network/interfaces - main cause of internet problems.

33) remove-orphans.sh

Removes all rests from not fully-removed tools.

34) speedtouch-pppoatmconf.bash

One variant of speedtouch DSL GUI for dial-in (the preferrd one).

35) speedtouch-pppoeconf.bash

Older variant, if No. 34 does not work.

36) update-scripts-kanotix.sh

Keeps installed scripts up-to-date.

37) wepkey

Not Joerg's script. A simple tool to get the hex key from a passphrase for WEP.

38) xi

Starts xine with dvb as input. Useless now - as Kaffeine can use DVB directly - so it will be removed in the next release.

A special note: You can run the 3D driver install scripts directly in live mode:

sudo install-nvidia-debian.sh
or
sudo install-radeon-debian.sh

However, if you would do a hard disk install later these will be inactive, the (same) script needs to be run again. That is to say, running it from the live CD doesn't mean the new driver will be installed when you do the hd install.

Future Plans

It's hard to improve on something this good, but Joerg keeps trying. On the horizon, there are plans to do an updated 2005-02 release for AMD64. There might also be a small bugfix update for 2005-02 32 bit with a different kernel (2.6.11 sata drivers and sk98lin created a few problems).

A related project is a smaller LITE edition with could fit on a 512MB usb memory stick. It's still experimental, and it will be a while before Kanotix LITE makes its debut on the standard servers. Currently it's only being distributed on magazine CDs.

Enough said. If you haven't got Kanotix, get it. And if you want to delve further into this very worthwhile distro, it should be noted that there is now a Kanotix Wiki page here. This is in addition the already excellent forum.

File Transfer Protocol, or FTP, has been around since the Dark Ages. Other protocols have come and gone (remember Telnet?), but FTP has endured. However, the reason for FTP's longevity has less to do with its technical excellence than the fact that it's just damn useful.

How useful? As the name implies, FTP is all about transferring files. As you no doubt know, HTTP can also transfer files, but only in one direction (download) - FTP lets you upload as well. If you have your own web site parked on a server at a web hosting service, you'll almost certainly use FTP to upload your files. You can also use FTP to do some basic sysadmin tasks on the remote site, such as renaming files, deleting files and changing user permissions. If you want to know all the fabulous things that FTP can do, simply type "ftp" at the command line - you will then get a "ftp>" prompt. Type a question mark (?) and you'll get a list of commands. If you want to know what a particular command does, type "help" followed by the command name, for example:

ftp> help chmod
chmod change file permissions of remote file

You can then exit the ftp> prompt and end your session by typing "bye".

Of course, not everyone is thrilled with the command line. Fortunately, in the open source world there are several nice user-friendly GUI FTP clients. The perennial favorite is Gftp. Many Linux distros include it by default, but you can easily find RPMs or DEB binaries, or download the source tarball from http://www.gftp.org.

As useful as FTP is, it has some flaws. Over the years, there have been many FTP exploits. To address this problem, a number of FTP servers have made their debut, reached super-star status, and then faded just as quickly when serious security holes were discovered by uppity script kiddies. In the five years that I've been running Linux, I've used and scrapped WU-FTP and ProFTP. The current favorite among the open source community is VSFTP (Very Secure FTP), which is - as the name implies - very secure (we hope). However, even it suffers from one flaw which is nearly incurable - FTP sends passwords across the network in clear text. Another issue is that FTP requires two ports (20 and 21) to transfer files - this kludge can confuse firewalls and proxy servers. There is no doubt that if FTP were being redesigned today from scratch, it would be done very differently, but it's a standard and that makes it hard to change.

If you own two or more computers, you might be tempted to use FTP to transfer files between them. However, running a FTP server - or any kind of server - always entails a small element of risk. You can minimize the hazards if you know what you're doing, but quite a few users know nothing about network security and don't really want to know. And why should they bother when there is a safer, more secure alternative around.

Enter "ssh", the "secure shell". Unlike FTP, it encrypts everything - your password, any commands you issue, and the files you transfer. Furthermore, it does a lot more than merely transferring files - as the name implies, it gives you a shell on the remote machine, allowing you to run applications and (with the root password) perform all system administration tasks.

However, all the many wild and wonderful things you can do with ssh is not what interests us here - we simply want to transfer files. Which brings us to sftp. Ostensibly, "sftp" means "secure FTP", but in fact it only resembles FTP on the surface. True, it looks like FTP and it smells like FTP, but underneath it is in fact nothing but ssh with a FTP interface.

The best way to learn is by doing. First you need a network - if you have a laptop and desktop, that will do just fine. Explaining how to set up a network is also beyond the scope of this article. If you happen to have a remote server out there somewhere on the Internet, that will also work. Indeed, here at DistroWatch we often use Gftp (with Sftp) to transfer files to our server.

You should find ssh already installed on any Linux or BSD box. The machine that will receive the files must have sshd running. You'll need to have it running on both machines if you want to transfer files both ways. You can set up sshd to start at boot time, but that isn't absolutely necessary - you can always start it by typing (as root) "/usr/sbin/sshd", and you can stop it with a "killall sshd".

In order to run sftp-server, find out where file "sftp-server" is located. Usually it will be in /usr/lib/ or /usr/libexec. Then add the following line (if it is not already there) to /etc/ssh/sshd_config:

Subsystem sftp /usr/lib/sftp-server

or

Subsystem sftp /usr/libexec/sftp-server

If you made any changes you'll need to restart sshd. Then you can immediately start transferring files. The syntax for the "sftp" is very similar to the BSD ftp client. Log on to the remote machine like this:

sftp myname@remotehost

You should find yourself logged onto the remote machine at a "sftp>" prompt. You can see all the available commands by typing "help". Exit from the session by typing "bye".

If you've gotten this far and everything is working, the only remaining hurdle is to configure Gftp so that it works with ssh rather than FTP. That happens to be dead easy. Fire up Gftp. Change the value of the right-most drop-down box from FTP to SSH2. Along the top menu bar, fill in the blank boxes (from left to right) with the relevant information:

Host: remotehostname
Port: 22
User: myname
Pass: mypassword

With your cursor still in the password box, hit enter - you should be connected immediately. And the rest is so intuitive that you can do it with your eyes closed.

Gftp - As Good As It Gets

* * * * *

And that's the news for today. Thank you all for your patience, and with luck Ladislav will be back next week.

Robert Storey

Reader Comments

1 • No subject (by Gnobian_Ken00bie on 2005-04-18 05:55:37 GMT from United States)
This is one of the most interesting and informative weeklies in some time. Great job, Robert. I hope the flu passes quickly.2 • via (by paul h at 2005-04-18 09:42:22 GMT from United States)
i have one of those via mmain boards and the small fan for the c3 are unaudable unless you put your ear next to it. What i plan to do to it is to have a built mini-itx case and make it noisless or without hdd or spinning.3 • top job (by dukeinlondon on 2005-04-18 10:07:39 GMT from United Kingdom)
This is by far the best newsletter on linux available right now. Well done for a great review.4 • ssh Tip Re: FreeBSD 5.3 - Not So Gaga (by Claudio Nieder on 2005-04-18 10:14:56 GMT from Switzerland)
Hi,

run two sshd on different port. That's what I started to do after I once lockedmyself out by my own stupidity. With two sshd on different ports, when oneinstance dies, I can still log in trough the other.

About Linux,hope some country started using it so that Domino Effects clearly begins to happen. I think if Brazil begins that attitude, probably nearby countries will also do that.6 • A few thoughts (by Andrew on 2005-04-18 11:16:55 GMT from Canada)
The adoption of free software in Brazil is hampered by a simple thing : the lack of a decent power grid. Those who would benefit from the PC Conectado project live in areas where electricity is elusive, to say the least. Therefore, why would anybody pay $20 per month for a computer that will never be powered on ? ... unless of course the said computer could use Duracell. As for the domino theory, enough people have already died in destitute places all over the world because of that nonsense.

The ssh problem should be fixed by the OpenSSH team, not the FreeBSD developers. If there is indeed a worm attacking ssh ports, maybe that would explain why my Coyote Linux router is sluggish. It's as if it can't process the simplest DNS request at certain times. The only port that's opened is ssh for remote administration. I'll have to close it and see what happens.

When Robert is amazed by the way Kanotix gets installed on a hard drive, it means that something is rotten in Debian land. Branden Robinson said in an interview that Sarge wouldn't be released until the installer got fixed. That's a bummer : how can they stumble on such a trivial task when smaller crews (Mepis, Knoppix, Kanotix, etc.) shine in that department ? Also, if the number of supported architecture was really an issue, there would be one NetBSD release every 5 years. Well, I guess I'm venting too much frustation ... it's time to stop.7 • Debian and the popularity of Ubuntu. (by Eric on 2005-04-18 11:30:43 GMT from Netherlands)
Facts are that Ubuntu is way easier to install for newbies. Facts are that the Ubuntu packages are more up-to-date than Debian. Facts are that Ubuntu comes on one single CD, instead of 8+. Facts are that the ubuntu user fora are full with very kind and helpfull people. Ian might consider these facts while evalutating where Debian has been moving to. Debian is a beautiful and secure distro, but lacks accessibility for the general public.8 • Brazil (by Lindsay on 2005-04-18 12:00:28 GMT from United States)
i hope Brazil uses Linux exclusivly and tells Billy borg Gates to stick his MS-Kludgeware where the sun don't shine,,,

great weekly news Robert Storey, thanks :)9 • Kanotix (by Graham on 2005-04-18 12:02:03 GMT from Australia)
I'd like to know how you get so much info about Kanotix. ie. that there'll be a bug fix for 2005-02, etc. Kano doesn't reveal much in the forums, so where do you get your info? Great job with this week's newsletter.10 • Debian and the popularity of Ubuntu. (by Eric on 2005-04-18 12:22:38 GMT from Netherlands)
Facts are that Ubuntu is way easier to install for newbies. Facts are that the Ubuntu packages are more up-to-date than Debian. Facts are that Ubuntu comes on one single CD, instead of 8+. Facts are that the ubuntu user fora are full with very kind and helpfull people. Ian might consider these facts while evalutating where Debian has been moving to. Debian is a beautiful and secure distro, but lacks accessibility for the general public.11 • No sympathy for Debian… (by pr0c on 2005-04-18 12:58:58 GMT from United States)
Debian’s politics hurt it.Debian’s [insane amount of] multiple architectures hurt it.Debian’s extremely slow release schedule hurt it.Debian’s support hurts it. [See note 1]Debian’s lack of management hurts it.Debian’s “obsession” with “stability” hurts it VERY much. [See note 2]

Debian’s own policies are hurting it; not Ubuntu or any other reasons... They have made their bed and now its time to sleep in it. They either need to change what their doing, die, or stop whining. If they aren’t careful Ubuntu could end up as a fork of the Debian project.

The cure for Debian (IMHO) is to split into two types; one focused on the desktop (like Ubuntu) where they can push packages through at a much faster rate. The desktop version should be on 3 architectures, i386 (686 optimized), athlon64 and PowerPC. The other type is the stable sever (web, applications, etc), that one should have a lot fewer packages and focus on all the different architectures. The server version should move still at a faster pace than the current release pattern.

FYI, I used Debian for 3-4 years.

[1] I have never seen such an unfriendly bunch on IRC. No support would be better than what they provide. Watch how they treat newbies.[2] 3-4 years ago it seamed to be more stable than any other linux distro. Now it seams most all distros are even when they spend 1/100th (literally) of the time on stability.

Also, I had never heard of those low wattage mini boards. Are those boards on the open market, or are they only sold by that axiomtech company?13 • About HTTP (by Kim on 2005-04-18 13:18:54 GMT from Germany)
> As you no doubt know, HTTP can also transfer files, but only in one direction (download) - FTP lets you upload as well.

This is a common misconception. HTTP includes a request method called "PUT" that enables you to upload files.14 • speaking of Mini-ITX (by crawancon on 2005-04-18 13:27:02 GMT from United States)
damnsmalllinux.org has a nifty little m-ITX store... they even sell the motherboard, etc, with a damnsmalllinux iso on a smartcard already attached. (yes you can use any other iso you wish..)as a side note, most of the distro's that are "geared towards older equipment" work extremely well under the mini-itx circumstances. vectorlinux, feather/featherweight linux, devillinux, puppy, etc etc.. all work extremely well (BLAZING when loaded into ram...). with nano-ITX coming in and now the dual core VIA, some amazing things are crawling out of cracks in the linux house. :-)15 • RE: Debian and the popularity of Ubuntu. (by Captain Carrot on 2005-04-18 14:03:30 GMT from Germany)
In general I agree with your view: Ubuntu is good for newbies, better than Debian. But I think that Debian is better for "intermediate" and "experienced" users, who have used GNU/Linux for some years.

Ubuntu has quickly become an important part of the Debian family and it has attracted lots of new users. Still, Ubuntu is just a Debian derivative and there are also other very good newbie-friendly Debian derivatives available. I'd recommend Ubuntu if you are a newbie and want the Gnome desktop. If you are a newbie and want the KDE desktop or a good live-CD, consider Mepis or Kanotix. IMO, they are better than Kubuntu. Other good live-CD's are Knoppix and Damn Small Linux but these are not that good for hd-installation.

But if you've used GNU/Linux for some years and are familiar with the command line, Debian Testing/Sarge can offer a better and more stable desktop than any Debian derivative, IMO.

Whichever of these options you choose, you'll become a member of the Debian community. And that's something to be proud of.16 • good stuff (by Mark on 2005-04-18 14:05:56 GMT from United States)
Really enjoyed the news this week, when Ladi gets back in town maybeyou could do a wedsday(?) techletter. Two on monday would be toomuch and I want both. Been interested in ftp for awhile without findingsomething that fit my low IQ and picked up most of what I wanted to know. Again good work17 • ViVA la ViA (by Gimp Addict on 2005-04-18 14:29:12 GMT from Germany)
The "Viva VIA" part is excellent.At this point of time ViA-CPU-Systems can be used confidently as working-PC's, as long as you don't need 3D or so.I have been operating a ViA-System for more than a year now and I highly appreciate it for it's friendship with silence and our enviroment.

Count me in for the 64-bit-Eden-Dual-Wishlist.18 • Ubuntu-vs.-Debian (by titiv on 2005-04-18 14:37:10 GMT from France)
How can Debian people be so blindminded !!!Linspire = no problemXandros = no problemUbuntu = discussions, polemics ...?/!I perso don't like linspire and Xandros as they made a pay-distro out freesoftware (nothing wrong up to now) but not giving back as much as they take.I never could go to a full debian install even with the "new (lol)" fedora installer, and more getting some new stuffs unless you wait for ages.

With Ubuntu I can use an easy install distro, configuring my own desk, use the best of free softs (at least for me), without headake or going into endless config files or howto made by an alien..

That's maybe the reason why some "debianists geeks" are so furious about!19 • Libranet 3.0 released (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-04-18 15:05:22 GMT from Italy)
That is correct. It has been released today.It looks like a mighty release: 5 CDs or one DVD, a la SUSE or a la Mandrake (Mandriva)It doesn't come cheap either: $89.95 new users. $ 64.95 existing users and students (download edition)I'll probably buy it because Libranet was one of my first distros and because I simply can't resist.However I am a (very) happy Kanotix user, which costs nothing except for voluntary donations.How easy will be convincing Ubuntu/Kanotix/Mepis/Sarge users that they should pay $89.95 for yet another Debian derivative?When I started using linux Libranet was the only easier Debian installer.But in April 2005?20 • Brazil against MS (by Flavio on 2005-04-18 15:10:09 GMT from Brazil)
Hi, I'm from Brasil, and as a linux user and developer, I really like to see if the government will create a PC Connect using Linux as only possible operating systems... MS is increasing pressure to PC Connect be released using also Windows XP Cheap Version made for Brazil... The project is called Popular PC here and still not yet done because of many pressures...Here in Brazil we have many great distros like Conectiva, GoblinX, Kurumin, Kalango, Dizinha, FeniX... and more...21 • Kanotix (by hotdogdan on 2005-04-18 15:15:29 GMT from United States)
Great review. I have been using Kanotix for 2 weeks and dual boot Kanotix and Linspire. Kanotix has all that I need,. Kano has done a great job with this distro. I have tested 22 distros and Kanotix is the best IMO.

I keep Linspire because of its stability and I like giving to a company that dows so much for the open source community. Linspire sponsers NVU, KDE-Look, MP3, LSongs, Lplayer, Mozilla-Firefox and a host of others. Glad to see they are backing the open source community.22 • VIA (by mike on 2005-04-18 15:15:35 GMT from United States)
I run Ubuntu on a VIA mini-itx board. It's not my primary computer, but it works very well. Mine has a fan, which is rather noisy. The devices are very well supported in the 2.6.x kernel.

I use the system for basic home office stuff and some audio editing. Like all of my linux systems, I use XFCE for the desktop. Gnome tends to feel just a little bit sluggish.23 • Great job, Robert! (by DaveW on 2005-04-18 15:42:25 GMT from United States)
The Via article was an interesting take on one direction Linux might take to conquer yet another niche.

The FTP article made me realize there was lots to explore re a topic I'd never paid much attention to. As in previous articles, you managed to hit just the right level between too tech and too condescending. You explain the basics and point to ways the reader can play around to REALLY learn the basics.

You're good at this stuff. Your articles are too good to just let them scroll by. Maybe Ladislav can be persuaded to provide a space on DW for an archive of your tip articles. It would be great if that space could include discussion space for each one.

Anyway, thanks for the good work, and here's hoping the mystery pills do their magic.24 • Mandriva 10.2 official ? (by Leo on 2005-04-18 15:45:28 GMT from United States)
Guys, my upgrade to Mandriva 10.2 went smooth, and now I wonder. Is there going to be a 10.2 "official" release? (this one is in the devel ftp branch, corresponding to "community" edtions ) Where are the updates going to be placed ? In the devel branch ? It's all very confusing at this point, at least to me ...

As to updates I suppose you are going to get them as usual, as for any previous release.26 • Excellent choices of Software (by Kanotix on 2005-04-18 16:08:48 GMT from Singapore)
Among all distributions, nothing can beat Kanotix software collection.Most other distro, leave lyx (an excellent documentation program), and gnucash ( good finance management program - if you don't manage atleast it helps students to practise their accounting skills).But Kanotix, choose both of them in the distro.

Go ahead Kano!27 • Brazil and VIA (by ray carter at 2005-04-18 16:10:35 GMT from United States)
I suggest that the ultimate answer for Brazil might be found in another part of this week's news - mini-itx. If the power grid is as unstable as another poster mentioned, maybe the ultimate solution is a mini-itx running linux with an inexpensive UPS box. BTW - I run Gentoo on my mini-itx (VIA EPIA M10k-Nehemiah - a 1 ghz small form factor box. It's about 1/3 as tall as my midi-tower, about 1/2 as deep, and same width. I have a DVD+-RW, 80gb hard disk, and use a USB floppy when I need it. I have five or six Linux distros installed, but the customized Gentoo is tops.28 • EPIA 5000 (by ke4nt on 2005-04-18 16:20:33 GMT from United States)
I run a headless, fanless EPIA 5000 in my car with damnsmalllinuxbooting off of a Compact Flash card. Absolutely no noise at all...I use it to randomly serve up a playlist for my car audio system,which I change up by revising my USBflash key contents...

I recently added a netgear USBwireless key, as I hope to dosome admin from the la-z-boy while the car sits in the driveway..

Linux runs great on the EPIA boards, and everything is detectedat boottime without needing any drivers or modules added...Before installing it into my jeep, the performance was actuallypretty spiffy with damnsmalllinux, but not so with other distros..Loading the entire OS into ram really helps a great deal.

7329 • EPIA 5000 (VIA) (by ke4nt on 2005-04-18 16:25:38 GMT from United States)
One other thing..The board will actually run off of a gel-cell , and a solar panel.Connected to a low-power FM transmitter, it could truly bea self-contained, no moving parts radio station, remotely admin'd.

7330 • Very nice article (by RunLevelZero on 2005-04-18 16:35:49 GMT from United States)
Just wanted to add my compliment.31 • Kannotix! (by Robzilla-L.A. on 2005-04-18 17:02:12 GMT from United States)
I recently installed Kanotix and it is a great distro. It is the only Distro that my scrolling touchpad on my laptop worked! My only complaint was that I could not get updates??? I could not apt-get or anything. The repositories were not valid?? I went to the website and forum but could not find a list of up to date source lists? Maybe that was a bug and has since been fixed. I downloaded and installed the new iso as soon as it came out. The new version is not stable. Does anyone know when they plan to release it stable? And does anyone know where to get current apt repository info?

My final problem is Wireless. I have said this before and I do not know why it does not work. Every single new and old Linux distro I have tryed will not recognize the signal. Am I doomed to be hardwired and stuck to Windows for Wireless!?? I really would like to use the full capacity of my computer. I have tryed ndiswrapper. I have tryed to remove ndiswrapper. I have had one person try and help me and I have had no results? I am truly puzzled and at my wits end. I am thinking I am just stuck with Windows? I am told it should work but it doesn't? I have a pretty common computer set-up. It is a new Laptop but has been on the market since October of last year?? Someone have any thoughts or had similar problems? I would like to know what they did or if they have any ideas where I might start or steps to resolve the problem!

Robzilla32 • best DWW (by 2PM on 2005-04-18 17:18:15 GMT from Japan)
deserves the praises...33 • RE: Robzilla-L.A. (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-04-18 17:42:04 GMT from Italy)
Apt and synaptyc work fine here. Are you root? Are you connected to the internet?34 • aw poor ian (by speel at 2005-04-18 17:48:22 GMT from United States)
poor ian crying about ubuntu ... get over it thats what happens when you dont release a stable os IN 3 YEARS rofl any way i hope ubuntu keeps on pissing off ian =]35 • Robert Storey (by Andrea on 2005-04-18 17:49:15 GMT from Italy)
I think i like dww by Robert Storey more than dww by Ladislav Bodnar.36 • Kanotix-Apt (by Robzilla-L.A. on 2005-04-18 18:06:30 GMT from United States)
Anonymous Penguin,

Apt and synaptyc work fine here. Are you root? Are you connected to the internet?

Yes and Yes???

It is puzzling to me too??

Rob37 • What's new with Libranet 3.0? (by Anonymous on 2005-04-18 18:46:45 GMT from United States)
Does anyone know what's new with the new release? I went to their site and no posting of the upgrades are. What would be the compelling reasons to pick Libranet new release over other popular distro out there?

In the past, it were the 'Adminmenu' and ease of getting a Debian desktop but these day, there are plenty of Debian flavors that are just easy to set up. MEPIS, Ubuntu, etc.

Just curious.38 • Debian bashing. (by Mike on 2005-04-18 18:58:16 GMT from United Kingdom)
A lot of people have been attacking Debian since Ubuntu came out, without knowing much about it. The most common misconception is stability. Ubuntu is an unstable distribution by Debian standards. Debian has it's own unstable branch, which is always very up-to-date.

What Debian releases once every few years is rock solid. It's exactly what Microsoft do - a single release every few years, with security updates. Compared to what MS produce, it's fantastic and extremely secure.

Linux news sites love a good flame war and Ubuntu vs. Debian is the latest and juiciest. But for all the smoke, there is very little fire to it. I'm sure these two organisations can comfortably co-exist and this story shows that this aim is something they are both willing to work towards.39 • Very good indeed (by Henrique Maia on 2005-04-18 19:07:56 GMT from Portugal)
I really, really enjoyed this DWW. Very good work, Robert!40 • A great DWW (by William Roddy on 2005-04-18 19:18:27 GMT from United States)
Mr. Storey,

I do not say this to detract any any way from the Herculean efforts of Ladislav, because his is not an easy task and he does his work with consistent excellence, while avoiding many of the pitfalls that lay ahead any journalist these days.

Having said this, I would like to compliment you for your excellent coverage this week. It elicited a lot of upbeat, inspired, and inspiring posts.

As for Debian and it's offspring, Debian has been an extraordinary parent and has taught all of us many things. However, I have learned the disquieting lesson, as a grandfather, that the next generation always tends to forge ahead of its parents, though in no way intending to demean, belittle, or harm them.

And good children tend to pay back their parents' love and attention by seeing to their well-being. This would best be viewed by the parent as a family effort, rather than tribal conflict.

Some people call it progress. Others, evolution. Whatever the case, all this is a natural phenomenon. The sign of an excellent parent, though, is not to be embittered by its children's' successes, but to count the achievements of its children as measures of its own success.

Thank you.William Roddy41 • RE: Debian bashing. (by Mike ) (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-04-18 19:18:58 GMT from Italy)
Very well said, Mike. Attacking Debian (mostly by Ubuntu n00bs) is very much like calling your own mother a whore.This, plus the Debian incompatibilty of many Ubuntu packages is what annoys many long time Debian users.At least the Gentoo or Arch fanboys of the past were annoying, but they weren't antagonizing any distro in particular.42 • Debian by Mike and more... (by Lance Lucas on 2005-04-18 19:39:32 GMT from United States)
I love the Debian project, but I have to disagree with you slightly Mike. Debian unstable has not been "up to date" as of recent. GCC is at 3.3.x and Xfree86 is still the only xserver available. KDE is still listed at 3.3.x and GNOME at 2.8.x. From a home user's perspective, it would seem as though DD's have accepted sid as their production machines, and thus, aren't as willing as they used to be to accept newer upstream versions. Does anyone at Debian actually care if Sarge goes stable? I'll bet they don't use it. Hopefully politics and lack of direction don't doom the messiah of Linux....Debian. I just wish that unstable really was bleeding-edge unstable (Xfree86?? come on); that testing released on a schedule; and that version bumps on basic user apps (such as web browser, e-mail client, IM client) were offered as an optional repository for stable. But I'm like every other Linuxer, I have opinions....whatever the case, I'm a huge supporter of Debian and will be for a long time.43 • FreeBSD 5.x (by RaVen at 2005-04-18 20:38:38 GMT from United States)
5.4 is the first release I would even consider running on a colocated server. Running two sshd's is a solution to _that_ problem, but there were others with 5.3. MP runs on 4.11 for a reason :)

Note: I am a big FreeBSD supporter, everyone has bad releases..just pointing out that 5.3 was one.44 • What's new with Libranet 3.0? (by Anonymous on 2005-04-18 20:46:57 GMT from United States)
Does anyone know what's new with the new release? I went to their site and no posting of the upgrades are. What would be the compelling reasons to pick Libranet new release over other popular distro out there?

In the past, it were the 'Adminmenu' and ease of getting a Debian desktop but these day, there are plenty of Debian flavors that are just easy to set up. MEPIS, Ubuntu, etc.

Just curious.45 • FreeBSD 5.x (by RaVen at 2005-04-18 20:48:21 GMT from United States)
5.4 is the first release I would even consider running on a colocated server. Running two sshd's is a solution to _that_ problem, but there were others with 5.3. MP runs on 4.11 for a reason :)

Note: I am a big FreeBSD supporter, everyone has bad releases..just pointing out that 5.3 was one.46 • RE: Debian by Mike and more... (by Captain Carrot on 2005-04-18 21:15:39 GMT from Germany)
From what I've understood, the X11 in Debian Unstable/Sid hasn't been upgraded to X.org because it's a big change that affects most of the other packages and makes it impossible to pull packages from Unstable/Sid to Testing/Sarge. So problems with releasing Sarge have held Unstable/Sid back, but X.org hits Unstable as soon as Sarge has been released. Besides, Debian's XFree86 4.3 contains lots of patches pulled from XFree86 4.4 and X.org sources, so it's not quite as obsolete as it appears. And the problems with Sarge's release are currently generating radical changes in Debian's release policy, so things will improve after they get Sarge out.

AFAIK, KDE 3.4 and Gnome 2.10 should be available on experimental repositories:deb http://pkg-kde.alioth.debian.org/kde-3.4.0/ ./deb http://pkg-gnome.alioth.debian.org/debian experimental main47 • re: EPIA 5000 (by ke4nt (by im_ka on 2005-04-18 21:49:26 GMT from Sweden)
wow... any pictures? website? it sounds like "tux my ride" ;)48 • Excellent points Captain Carrot (by Lance Lucas on 2005-04-18 22:27:16 GMT from United States)
I do see many of the problems with switching from Xfree86 to x.org while maintaining cross-branch compatibility. However, for as long as Xfree86 has been on the way out, it seems like Xorg could have been adopted and stable by the time Sarge is actually released. It's in RedHat and SuSE's enterprise products and has been on desktops for a year now. I believe the bigger problem for Debian would be the "year lost", as they have patched+developed a deprecated product, knowing that the Xorg switch would be inevitable. Xfree86 may belong in Sarge, but I think that would also hurt Xorg's development for Sid and Etch.

And aren't packages rebuilt/recompiled when they hit Sarge? If so, why would it matter if the two are using different X servers? Just trying to understand the problem...because it seems nearly impossible to maintain binary compatibility across an unstable, testing and stable distribution scheme (if sarge packages wont run/build on woody, why does sid need to run/build on sarge). Especially as testing nears release, like it is.

And I dont see any packages in the gnome repo...did you mistype the URL, or is it me again...

Once again, just my opinions...go debian! happy linuxing to all and from the world poker tour, may your cards be live and your pots be monster!!49 • RE: Debian (by Richard White on 2005-04-18 22:47:18 GMT from Canada)
I simply cannot fathom why people blatantly bash Debian when there is so much choice otherwise -- if you don't like it, do something about it or use something else. I don't mean to sound elistist, but there's been some trolling here that must be countered.

Debian is a huge effort with hundreds upon hundreds of developers and contributors supporting almost a dozen architectures. I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't assume to have knowledge above the collective wisdom of all these great minds, so I'm pretty comfortable trusting in their decisions. Continued growth speaks highly of Debian's popularity and success.

Sarge hasn't been released simply because it is not ready. The Debian project has goals to meet before such an event can occur and it would do a disservice to its many users providing a hasty release. Again, if you can't live by these terms, move along. But I doubt you will find a better distro.

Ubuntu is yet another spin-off aimed at the impatient desktop user. I find it innovative and interesting, but not entirely trustworthy due to some, by Debian standards, experimental packaging. Some may not mind this and that is their choice, which I respect, but it would be in Ubuntu's best interest to work more closely with Debian on compatibility.

Debian's policies are in place to ensure strict compliance and foster trust amongst its developers and users. I wouldn't want the project to change direction on a developer's whim or be pressured to conform by commercial or other special interests.

How can supporting more architectures (reaching out to more users) possibly hurt a project? However, syncing eleven architectures is becoming difficult, and this issue is being debated with perhaps some of the more obscure being demoted to second-class. An 18 months release cycle for Etch has also been discussed.

Debian, at heart, is a server distro, so its obsession with stability and lengthy release cycles reflects that. It is not unheard of to have servers running for years without OS upgrades, so Woody is very relative here. I cannot imagine running a mission-critical server on anything else but maybe BSD or Solaris. Why, even the mighty Microsoft has been known to drag out releases.

If your cup of tea is the desktop, then testing makes a wonderful platform, perhaps not bleeding-edge but, none-the-less, rock stable (my brew.) And if you can't handle the new debian installer, try an easy derivative like Kanotix, which is more in sync with SID. You will have unfettered access to Debian repositories, less trouble upgrading, and resonable stability. And at the bleeding-edge, there is the experimental branch with all the latest packages you could possibly want. But I wouldn't use it for anything but bug reporting.

Sorry for the rhetoric, but some of the bashing just irks me.50 • RE: Excellent points (by Captain Carrot on 2005-04-18 22:58:36 GMT from Germany)
Had they known beforehand that making the release would take so long, the Debian developers might have made different choices...

The Gnome addition was announced just today, so give them a little time to upload the packages. ;)They should become available also on the project experimental's ftp repository:deb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main51 • An "Ubuntu n00b" defending Debian - NetBSD comparison (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-04-18 23:00:53 GMT from United States)
First, let me say that I don't think that those knocking Debian are representative of Ubuntu's community. And I certainly don't think they are representative of Ubuntu's developers. Ubuntu makes clear its respect for and debt to Debian many places on its sites.

Second, I wanted to respond to Andrew in Canada who seems to poo-poo the argument that supporting so many architectures is an issue, pointing out the example of NetBSD.

NetBSD does not actually support that many more architectures than Debian GNU/Linux. For one example. The 55 vs. 11 is misleading - though there's nothing deceptive involved, I'm sure - because, for example, what Debian counts as a single port, NetBSD will count as several. Debian counts CPU types and NetBSD counts whole platforms. For example, the Motorola 68k processor is represented as a single architecture in Debian, but it is counted separately in NetBSD depending on whether the port is for an Commodore Amiga or Macrosystem DraCo , an Atari TT030, Falcon, or Hades, an HP 9000 300 or 400, a 68k Macintosh, a NeXT "black" box, a Sun 2, a Sun 3, et al.

NetBSD also has a far smaller set of packages. The remainder are in NetBSD's packages collection and these are third party, not supported by NetBSD. What NetBSD maintains is a tiny fraction of what Debian maintains, though pkgsrc makes a vast range of additional software available.

Please let this in no way be taken as a flame against NetBSD, an OS for which I have nothing but the highest regard. But be careful in making uninformed and unfair comparisons. NetBSD's developers will agree with what I am saying:

"Just what defines a "complete" system? NetBSD provides a relatively lean standard system, with all the base functionality expected of a BSD system: the network protocols, the ability to recompile itself, and so on. Extra facilities are provided by a package system, which allows third party applications to be easily installed, either from source or prebuilt binaries. This allows the NetBSD developers to concentrate their efforts on the core system."52 • Ubuntu n00b continues (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-04-18 23:15:24 GMT from United States)
With all due respect to Debian' founder - and he certainly is due quite a lot - I would consider Ubuntu a net plus for Debian. And a lot of Debian's developers feel the same, though there is downside too. It's not a coincidence that GNOME 2.8 made it into Debian testing in record time and we can expect the same with GNOME 2.10 because of the close collaboration between GNOME and Debian developers on Ubuntu. (Ask Paul Volkerding about the work involved in that.) The same will no doubt be true with X.org and I'm sure amd64 support will be dramatically helped by Ubuntu's work.

Ubuntu is the new kid and is taking press away from Debian currently (and I'll add, from projects like UserLinux and Ian's own Progeny). That will certainly pass, but the way that Ubuntu is contributing back will hopefully continue.53 • NOTICE: Correction to the Gnome 2.10 on Debian info (by Captain Carrot on 2005-04-18 23:23:38 GMT from Germany)
Eh, now I notice that I've been spreading misinformation. You need to have BOTH pkg-gnome's repository and the experimental ftp repository. I didn't read the announcement carefully enough. My sincerest apologies.

This is what Jordi Mallach actuallly wrote in the announcement:"The biggest problem right now is the lack of a newer libxklavier version than gnome-control-center requires, and gnome-applets which requires gst-backends (maintainer working on it) so we've had to put those packages in pkg-gnome's temporary repository while this gets sorted out in experimental. Remember, the apt lines you currently need should look like this:"

# Debian experimentaldeb ftp://ftp.debian.org/debian ../project/experimental main# GNOME 2.10 pending packagesdeb http://pkg-gnome.alioth.debian.org/debian experimental main54 • Domino ... (by anonymous on 2005-04-19 00:59:16 GMT from Peru)
in Peru we have the "Mi computadora" project with the same goals as in Brazil.Technically, The only alternative is Linux, because with any Linux distro you get not only the OS but many, many apps, and Microsoft can't offer anything better.The only problems are the politicians who could "take" the wrong deci$ion.55 • Debian (by Gunksta at 2005-04-19 02:19:32 GMT from United States)
As always, this was one of the highlights of the Linux Press. My comment though is really about Debian. Ian Murdoch should be jumping up and down to thank Knoppix, Kanotix, Ubuntu, Linspire, Xandros, etc. As everyone has noted it's been far too long since Debian Stable got an upgrade. The only reason Debian is even relevant anymore is because of A) it's developer base and B) it's the groundwork for so many of these cutting edge distributions. Without these, Debian news would be hard to find outside of Debian Weekly and the monthly announcement delaying Sid. These spin-off distributions that carefully keep contact open with Debian and the ONLY reason Debian really matters now to people starting in with Linux. What I find really odd is that more of the work that Mepis, Ubuntu, etc. have done in terms of an installer hasn't been adotped by Debian more openly. I know Debian has a few more architectures to deal with, but it seems like it would be a good starting point, and these distributions are obviously doing something right, there installers don't get much less praise than the installers from the "Big Boys" like Fedora or SUSE.

--andy56 • Debian vs. Ubuntu or why I am a Gentoo bigot :) (by Ed Borasky on 2005-04-19 02:59:43 GMT from United States)
I haven't followed the progress of "sarge" at all; I've loaded it on a few desktops/laptops and it seems to be OK, although the only machine where I currently have it loaded is a laptop with a hard drive too small for Gentoo.

I've never tried Ubuntu because I despise the Gnome desktop. Maybe Kubuntu is better, but if I wanted a Debian-based distro for a desktop, I'd just load "sarge" and not mess with anything else. I'll stick with Gentoo on the desktop.

So ... if Debian (woody??) is a server distro, who's their competition? Well, how about CentOS? I've been fooling with the RHEL rebuilds lately. The "big three" -- CentOS, Tao and White Box -- all seem pretty much alike to me, but CentOS has a "server" CD that might just give Woody a run for ... well, given that they're both free, a run for what? :)57 • Libranet 3.0 (by qibhom on 2005-04-19 03:14:55 GMT from United States)
There are lots of reasons to get it. Adminmenu has been completely redone, and administers a lot more things now. The installation has also been completely redone, recognizes wireless cards that other Debian derivatives (including Ubuntu and Kanotix) have issues with and is both easy for beginners and for those who want more advanced configuration options. Painless gnome 2.8. 2.6.11 kernel by default. Support is excellent, from either the developers or the community.

I'm sure that once Jon, Tal and Daniel wake up (the last week or so has been absolutely frantic, stomping last minute bugs) that they'll get all the details up. But, it is really quite snazzy as well as very functional.58 • Scientific Linux 4.0 Release Candidtate 2.5 (by William Roddy on 2005-04-19 04:36:56 GMT from United States)
The following announcement just arrived in my e-mail.

SL is Red Hat Enterprise 4, stripped of vendor ID and anything non-open-source. It is recompiled from the source. Anything that might have been troublesome "out of the box" has been removed.

This is the Linux distribution that is being used by Fermilabs, CERN in Switzerland, Cambridge University Physics department, and many , if not most, of the top facilities that research high-energy physics. It receives scrutiny by the finest programmers in the world, and is used by finest scientists. A growing list of universities are using it in their science departments.

I've been following it for a while, and do so with enormous pride and satisfaction.

If you want stability, security, and thoroughness, without the asides, you can do no better. It can come no more highly recommended than to be used by scientists who are on the cutting edge of researce into time and space.

For those of you who, like myself, have no significan scientific backgrounds, it is still a wonderful personal system. The additions of xine allows DVD viewing. I've also had no difficulty installing OpenOffice2, AcrobatReader 7, RealPlayer10, and many other things, of use to me.

If all things are possible, this is, then, solid silk. I'd venture to say you will not regret the experience.

Thank you.William Roddy
59 • ERRATA (by William Roddy on 2005-04-19 04:39:16 GMT from United States)
When I said, in the last post, "Anything that might have been troublesome "out of the box" has been removed," I was misleadingly incomplete. "Fixed" might have been a better choice of words than "removed."

Sorry.60 • KANOTIX (by DimGR on 2005-04-19 10:12:19 GMT from United States)
It is the best LInux distro i have ever used.61 • Red Hat Enterprise 4 based distro (by IMQ on 2005-04-19 12:29:45 GMT from United States)
There are at least 4 distros based on RHLE4, either already released or about to. What set them apart from RHLE4 and from each other: Scientic Linux, White Box, Tao, CentOS, etc.? What features are unique to each?

Inquiring mind wants to know. :)))62 • Reply to IMQ (by William Roddy on 2005-04-19 16:17:23 GMT from United States)
The first thing any derivative distribution must do is remove all vendor identification or anything the vendor constrains. These items, usually cosmetic, are replaced, to the extent they need by.

I have no experience with Tao, or White Box, but both Scientific Linux and CentOS install with anaconda in almost the identical way as does Red Hat EL.

Absence of vendor support is another difference in the proprietary v. open-source versions.

Scientific Linux is unique, in that the programmers from Fermilabs, CERN, and other major research facilities and universities, constituting literally thousands of high-use servers and work stations, completely rewrite the Red Hat distribution from its source and check the code for errors or superfluousness.

This is by no means a one-person operation. For example, at CERN in Switzerland, where the some of the world's leading scientists engage in the unraveling the mysteries of the Universe, somewhere in the neighborhood of a thousand machines run Scientific Linux in the x64 version. As far as I know, all the machines there, in the thousands, x86 and 64, use it.

Cambridge University, where the amazing Stephen Hawking works, is another participant.

What better oversight could you have, in a Linux that is free to you, to use as you please.

Reading the mail that flies back and forth between prestigious labs and universities throughout the world is, in itself, a treat. At Fermilabs, the particle accelerator, neither of the lead people in charge of Scientific Linux there are able to vacation at the same time. And if Red Hat sends out an ERRATA, either Fermi or CERN check it again, before it is put into play. Any security issue that is addressed by Red Hat is addressed by Scientific Linux. SL also has "sites," or further customized versions that are maintained by some of the specific facilities. But the base version has most everything you need and, though not bleeding edge, it is a sharp as you want a fine tool to be.

Because this is open-source (allowing all these huge, diverse labs throughout the world to run Linux absolutely free -- much to the chagrin of, for example, the SuSE salesman who visited Fermi and saw banks and bans of machines, all running happily and not costing a cent).

I confess an admiration for scientific method and that is applied to this particular Linux. It is astonishing how quickly and how thoroughly problems (infrequent, small, and often facility-specific) are solved and the precision of the discussions that go into the solution process.

But for us, even absent Ph.d's and genius IQ's, the nature of open source makes this project ours, too. It's been running in the background for quite a while and I stumbled across Fermi Linux (now Scientific Linux) a few years ago and have really enjoyed following its progress. The new 40 Scientific Linux, final version to appear Wednesday, will, is superb, even if I use it for far less than string theory, particle collision, and time/space exploration.

William Roddy63 • Yikes! (by William Roddy on 2005-04-19 16:32:16 GMT from United States)
Sorry about the typos in the last post ('by' should be 'be; the sentence about the SuSE salesman is incomplete and should have ended ". . . it also belongs to us.") Perhaps there are more. Tried to do it quickly.

Perhaps you now see why I admire scientists but ain't one.64 • The Best Fast Distro!!!!!!! (by Robzilla-L.A. on 2005-04-19 16:35:30 GMT from United States)
I see a lot of talk about Debian based distros right now. I do not share the debate between Debian and the derivitives. If Debian wants to release slow then it is their decision. I have tryed Debian and it has never really gelled for me. The derivitives from Debian are impressive. I really enjoy all of them. The thing that sparkles in Debian and the derivitives id apt. You can't beat it. So what is all the fuss about all of the Debian derivitives are great and Debian is great. Without Debian there would be no Derivitives. I think it is simply a matter of choice. One is not better than another since they are all from the same source!!

Now if you are tired of Debian and the derivitives there is a choice that is really not given enough press!! Everyone knows Gentoo and Slackware are about the fastest most stable distros out there. Setting them up however is anything but fast and for a newbie close to impossible(speaking from my own experience!!)

There is a solution and it is called Vector Linux!! How about a ten to fifteen minute install. Forget hours compiling the kernel!!Speed you got it! Now I have not optimized my system with a custom slackware or Gentoo install but from the systems I have used including xp and apple os x Vector is the fastest system out there!! I am not exagerating at all I have sat with a stop watch and timed the systems at boot up. Windows might be really close but then you get windows!!

Have a problem, want a program, you got it! First off if you want a program you can start VLAPT and ussually you will find what you are looking for. All of the good programs are there!! Now you don't get 500 choices and multiple programs that do the same thing. Just the most popular and in my opinion the best of open source programs. O.K. you've got the programs you want but now you have a problem, you go to the forums. Now all of the Distro forums I have been to have been helpful, although some much more than others and here again is where Vector Linux shines again! The people who are on the forums really help. They do not just tell you what they have doen and wouldn't it be nice if you could do it too?! No, they help you and eventually most of your problems will be solved.

I have tryed many Linux systems and I think all of them have strenths and weaknesses even Vector. It is all a matter of personal preference. That is where Linux stands out among the other Operating Systems is choice so lets not bash one or another for they are all great!! And we as Linux users have the choice to decide what is best for us and not be forced into the one-size fits all category!!

I think if you haven't tryed Vector Linux you should give it a shot. At least the install will be done fatser than an episode of the Simpsons! Includings updates!! It really is fast, solid and complete without being overkill! If you can pull away from apt, Vlapt is pretty good. As they say Vector at the speed of light!!

Robzilla65 • Re: The Best Fast Distro!!!!!!! (by Ariszló on 2005-04-19 18:56:20 GMT from Hungary)
Buffalo is like Vector Linux but it's even faster. At install time you can choose from kernels optimized for i686, ipent4, etc.

What about the zillion bugs it used to have? Have they been ironed out yet? I used to download almost every release. hoping it would get better, but if anything it kept getting worse.The developer is a very nice guy, but maybe Buffalo is too big a project for one man? Or maybe he should focus on bugs rather than bleeding edgeness?67 • Vector is still the Best Fast Distro! (by Robzilla-L.A. on 2005-04-20 01:19:16 GMT from United States)
I have tryed Buffalo Linux and it is based on Vector Linux but it is not the same. I installed it on my computer and it seemed fast but I could not see a noticible difference between Vector and Buffalo in terms of speed but I did see a big difference in terms of use.

Now first Buffalo has an XFCE or ICE desktop which I am not familiar with and do not care for. Maybe because Vector runs with KDE there is some sacrificing speed but the functionality more than makes up for it. Not only that but the Buffalo default desktop is just plain ugly. I tried to install KDE via disc two in Buffalo but I could not. Maybe it was a bug that other people did not experience but I was not happy. The installer was confusing to me in Buffalo and I hate the default Opera browser. What a pain in the *ss!

My overall impression with Bufalo is that there is potential but it is not close to Vector Linux. The desktop, the community, and the speed are the best I have tryed. As I stated before it is all about choice and personal preference and I just did not have a good experience with Bufalo maybe the next release will be different. As far as bugs I had a few in Bufalo and there are probably a few in Vector but I feel the support behind Vector will mitigate any problems you might encounter. Try em both and you tell me!

Frugalware combines the best features of Slackware and Arch Linux. Frugalware is fast -- it is i686 optimized.

Frugalware takes scripts and the KISS philosophy from Slackware. Patrick Volkerding's scripts are always easy to understand and editing Pat's scripts is one of the best ways to learn how Linux works "under the hood".

I really like this distro!69 • VIA - Big deal, but what about Mac Mini (by Geert on 2005-04-20 17:19:20 GMT from Belgium)
For Linux and UNIX, Mac Mini contains a small motherbord, without the need for a fan, and the whole computer ships for 499. Try to build, with a VIA board, a comparable machine for the same price ....70 • VIA (or Mac Mini?) based TiVO? (by Anonymous on 2005-04-20 20:13:23 GMT from United States)
I've been interested in building a mythTV (or possibly other Open Source) for a while (not enough to actually spend the money!). The idea of building a fan-less *(and low power) version sounds perfect - I could have it running full-time, just like my VCR.

But, could I reasonably run something like mythTV on a VIA, or a Mac Mini?71 • 3 things I'm liking better about the past 2 dww's than most of them (by EEDOK on 2005-04-20 20:20:06 GMT from Canada)
1. They don't end at Upcoming Releases and Announcements2. The Tips, Tricks and Hints section rocks3. The mini-reviews are awesomeThis is just for this one that I like4. A blurb on hardware :D

keep up the good work72 • VIA (or Mac Mini?) based TiVO? (by Anonymous on 2005-04-20 20:39:35 GMT from United States)
I've been interested in building a mythTV (or possibly other Open Source) for a while (not enough to actually spend the money!). The idea of building a fan-less *(and low power) version sounds perfect - I could have it running full-time, just like my VCR.

But, could I reasonably run something like mythTV on a VIA, or a Mac Mini?73 • Kanotix and Buffalo (by brodders on 2005-04-21 00:28:27 GMT from United Kingdom)
Hi...

If I want a decent server suite to use on older hardware ...plus the option of a good lightweight GUI (IceWM) for when I need do maintenance... I install Buffalo.

The latest Buf (1.7.1) seems free to date of show-stoppers; it has the everyday server-needed packages, it's optimised for YOUR cpu (just select from a long list) and as a plus it has a mad and exciting selection of eye-popping screen-savers. I tend to drop in Webmin too & that works fine.

Buffalo install um shows it's unconventional roots - but is pretty easy really. My only gripe is that as I'm in the UK, I must convince it to use a non-US keyboard & sometimes that's a struggle; well get over that! :)

Back to "optimised". A rig from 1999 with Soyo MB + 128M ram + K6-3 at 400MHz + cheap RAID card (used just for 100ATA EIDE to modern disks) plus a Buffalo K6 optimised 2.6 series kernel serves large files TWICE (I timed it) as fast as a 2004 AMD Athlon 2400MHz + 512M ram Win98 box across a 100MBit/sec LAN. Now I know Win98 is not wonderful, but it had a big cpu & ram advantage there.

Good work on DW, one and all - even the Comments section is blooming too!74 • RE: VIA - Big deal, but what about Mac Mini (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-04-21 01:25:26 GMT from Italy)
$499, yes, if you live in the US and if you are happy with the bare minimun.Here in the EU too often they assume: $1=Eur1, which of course is not true.And then, if I buy something, I am not happy with the bare minimum.The (slightly) faster model with 512 MB RAM (I am not happy with less than that) and a DVD writer is Eur 779. That equals today: $1020God forbid I might want 1 GB RAM and the Wireless package: that would be Eur 1129=$1479

We are very far from the original $499, aren't we? For less than that, at local shops I have seen AMD 64 boxes with all the niceties your heart might desire.75 • Scientific Linux 40 final is out (by William Roddy on 2005-04-21 02:23:41 GMT from United States)
Scientific Linux (from Fermi, CERN, Los Alamos, Cambridge, etc) has been released today.

If you need a throughly-check, enterprise-level Linux, this is it.76 • RE: William Roddy (by IMQ on 2005-04-21 04:42:45 GMT from United States)
Thanks for the response to my curiousity. :)

I have tried in the past all of these distros just out of curiousity :)

I am glad that some members of the Linux community with knowledge and experience to put together these RHEL clones for the masses where support from the big RH could be cost prohibitive. It sure makes a learning experience for those one day finding themselves in the job managing and supporting RHEL.

I am downloading the SL4 now as I type. Part of me wants to test the 5-year upgrade cycle. I am just sure if I can stick to it. Too much temptation with other distro flavors. And five years is a long, long time in Linux world.77 • re: MythTV on a VIA (by pfpearson on 2005-04-21 13:24:28 GMT from United States)
Following up on my question (in case others are interested).

Y'all keep up the good work!78 • Mini-ITX Router (by Josh Bowers on 2005-04-21 17:39:41 GMT from United States)
I have a VIA EPIA MII 1200Mhz C3 with on board LAN and a PCMCIA Wi-Fi card, 128MB of DDR, a old 10GB IBM laptop hard drive, a slim 16X CD-ROM Drive and a USB Floppy Drive in a hand made case. I uses BBI Agent Router with a old verson of Windows 95 preinstall on the hard drive. aftre BBI is install it is a Linux Router. it has run nonstop for 7 weeks. VIA and TUX a great team.79 • To IMQ (by William Roddy on 2005-04-22 00:26:57 GMT from United States)
I, like you, love to walk around the banquet table of Linux distributions and sample every last one of them. It used to be pretty easy to pick out the one that was "best" (whatever that means) for me, personally.

But lately, there have been so MANY excellent distributions, it would be hard to go wrong with most of them. However, the quest just to keep up with the curve has taken on epic proportion and takes so much of the day, I have little left to do with the computer what the excellent distributions are meant to allow me to do.

So I've left one drive open for experiments, but have settled on Scientific Linux as a operating system to leave in place, for a couple of reasons. The sheer strength of the oversight of the distribution is astonishing. It is a finely-tuned mix on the best stable rpms, rewritten from the source by some of the brightest minds in science, used and tested on thousands of critical machines, and scrutinized like a favorite child by the ITs at all these facilities: CERN, Los Alamos, Fermilabs, Cambridge, on and on and on.

Astonishing scrutiny, by many experts means exceptional cleanliness of code.

It's not their central desire to become a leading redistributions. I anything, my having blathered so much about them may be somewhat distracting from their central purpose: to always have a stable, modern, secure operating system for their facilities. The proselytism is all mine. I was met with such humble self-effacement when I once contacted a department head there, I felt guilty for causing him discomfort.

No, this may not be the distribution for everyone (though it certainly could be, with Xorg, SELinux, RHEL compatibility, and other components, such as APT as part of the mix, for those who prefer it to YUM.

But this is an enterprise Linux and it is in a class all its own, so if you need a stable system upon which to hang all the bells and whistle you'd like, give it a try. This is not your granddad's Red Hat. This, in the final analysis, isn't even Red Hat, though it retains the compatibility. It's quantum-stoked, linear-accelerated, time-and-space travel, astronomical, subatomic, nuclear Linux. Because those are the folks who have been using it now, for several years.

This is not to persuade anyone of anything, but to share my excitement, nor is it to say that any distro is better or worse than any other, but to state my choice of this one. I do have work to get done on a computer and this one looks like its one I can use to always get that work done.

Hope you enjoy your experience. Sure hate to have someone nice like you mad at me.

And I do apologize for having posted so many times. Please accept my apologies, if you would be so kind, everyone.William80 • Scientific Linux (to William Roddy) (by Gnobian Ken00bie on 2005-04-22 01:16:13 GMT from United States)
I for one want to thank you for your enthusiastic and informative posts on this topic. I've had my curiosity more than piqued. This sounds like a superb distro. I've always used Debian-based distros, since starting with Knoppix to rescue Windows boxes and while I've always intended to give Slackware and Gentoo a go when I feel I've learned enough about using Debian's tools effectively (I'm currently exploring debootstrap and dchroot), I've been leery of rpm-based distros, both for their commerciality and because of things I'd heard about "rpm Hell".

But you've definitely convined me to put Scientific Linux on my list.81 • To William Roddy (by IMQ on 2005-04-22 11:08:24 GMT from United States)
No need to apologize for your enthusiasm. After all, wouldn't that be the spirit of Linux! And I do enjoy reading your comments.

I agree with you 100% that it's getting more and more difficult to pick just one. So my hard drives are full of partitions to house several flavors of distro. :)82 • Tool tips (Hints) on the package names. (by tux on 2005-04-22 15:31:12 GMT from United States)
Its probably been there for ages but I just noticed that you have hints on the package names. For example the package "ppp" shows the hint "ppp: provides a server/client for for point to point protocol". (NO that's not my typo. It really says "for for").

That is a very cool feature.

Thanks83 • Does Microsoft steal Open Source code? (by ROBERT HUNTER on 2005-04-23 09:22:54 GMT from Australia)
I wondering if anyone knows the answer to this question. I suppose the answer is NO, because if they did, then maybe they would have a half-decent operating system! Nevertheless, it does seem that at least some ideas from the Open Source world tend to end up in proprietry code. But how could we tell? Since Microsoft have a "Closed Code Model", then we have no way of knowing for sure. Does the USA government have the right to inspect Microsoft's code to insure that they are not stealing GPL code? Well, it's not exactly stealing, more like a breach of the GPL anti-trust conditions. Presumably Microsoft would not release any OSS code they modified, so they would be in breach of the GPL. If M$ did breach the GPL, would the US government prosecute a case to uphold the GPL? Any Open Source Lawyers out there that would like to comment?84 • To Robert Hunter (by William Roddy on 2005-04-23 19:41:48 GMT from United States)
I recently read an article that explained the efforts of one programmer to seriously look into this. You ask an excellent question, to my mind. Having had our feet flame-broiled so often by critics, it would be good to know that someone would hold Microsoft's feet to the flame as well.

I hope that you will resubmit your question when the new issue comes out on Monday. Saturday seems to be near the end of the participation cycle in this collection of posts.

I'll be looking forward to hearing responses from people who know the answer.

Thank you.85 • M$ open source (by gnobian_ken00bie on 2005-04-23 20:22:33 GMT from United States)
IANAL, but I can share what I've read on the subject. First, you ask initially about Open Source then specifically refer to GPL. The two questions may very well have different answers. M$ definitely uses open source code. The TCP/IP stack most famously, which is copyright University of California Berkeley. There's other BSD licensed stuff they've used too.

GPL is another matter. Between the academic licenses they've granted - accompanied by NDAs - the "shared source" program, and the access to source code they've granted the US gov as part of their settlement, I suspect they would get caught. But then hubris is a M$ forte.

From what I understand M$ programmers aren't allowed to go near GPL stuff for fear of contamination.

But M$ has gotten into a lot of trouble for stealing in the past and no doubt will again. This page has some interesting history on just how much theft, proven and unproven, is intertwined with M$ development:

http://www.euronet.nl/users/frankvw/rants/microsoft/IhateMS_1.html86 • To Robert Storey (by Anonymous Penguin on 2005-04-24 02:57:09 GMT from Italy)
I have really enjoyed the last 2 DistroWatch Weekly. Well done! Very good job.87 • Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo......Who cares? (by Robert Dunseith at 2005-04-24 17:08:51 GMT from United States)
I've really got to say something here! Who cares what distro works for you and what doesn't! What you have to pay for and what you don't! You should just be glad that there are so many choices to choose from. Yes, I went through the process of downloading many linux distros to run on a Dell laptop I bought with no operating system. That's when I realized how great Linux really is. I had so many choices!I recently purchased a new computer and couldn't wait to get it home to wipe out W$ Media center 2005. Like that good ole' saying " Be happy with what you have, because someday you may not have it!" Also the linux community and the numerous forums that they have AWESOME. Long live any linux distro!!!!