500 words a day on whatever I want

The five walls of racism

Can White Americans be unracist? Yes, but it way harder than most of them think. That is why when they quickly say stuff like, “I am not racist” or “I do not see colour”, it is a good sign that the opposite is true. Those who have honestly fought against their own racism do not talk like that.

Note: Racism is not just joining the Klan or saying the n-word. Whenever you think or act as if one race is naturally better or worse than another you are being racist.

To overcome their racism people of colour in America have only one wall to overcome, the wall of lies, but white people have five walls:

The wall of lies: America was built on racism – on slavery and genocide. The lies that made that seem right and good are still with us. You see them in schoolbooks, newspapers, Hollywood films, jokes, even in the stuff your parents and friends say. You hear them so much you think they are true. Few question them unless they are stuck on the wrong side of those lies. And even then it can take years. And even then you might not see through them all.

The wall of self-interest: Few people of colour stand to gain from racism: it hurts them in society at large and, if they believe in it themselves, it leads to self-hatred. Not so for white people: racism allows them to have higher incomes, lower unemployment, safer streets, better schools and longer lives. On top of that it allows them to live comfortably in nice houses while black and Latino children in dangerous neighbourhoods go to bad schools.

The wall of the white self: For whites racism is more than just a set of self-serving lies: part of their sense of self worth is built on being white. It makes them feel good because it allows them to think they are better than others.

The wall of white society: Most whites who do see through the lies and see the crying injustice of it all keep their mouth shut. Why? Because they have to live with other white people and fear becoming an outcast. Racism is not even their fight, right? So why should they suffer for it?

The wall of shame and guilt: Those who break through all the other walls come to the worst wall of all: they come face to face with the shame and guilt of being white, something that their racism had largely hid from them until now. I know many whites do not believe in white guilt, but it makes sense of too much. And it is not just me: Dr Beverly Tatum, who studies this sort of thing, says it is the shame and guilt that is the hardest to overcome.

Not that anyone should despair – none of this stuff is impossible – but neither should they fool themselves about what is going on.

But the first step is actually recognizing that they are in fact, racist, which many whites seem to be unaware of because racism is just so steeped in American culture. They say and do things that are blatantly racist and become confused, hurt, and/or angry when they are called on it by a non-white person. Just acknowledging it is the biggest wall of all, if you ask me.

How can you know if you’re racist? Ok, if you are a racist of a KKK kind, you’ll probably know and be proud of it. But many people don’t really know what racism really is, what shapes it can take, and they don’t realize it practically comes with growing up white.

To be racist, you don’t have to hate non-whites. All you need is to see them as “others”; as people who are not “your” people (even if you’re both Americans, Canadians…) So, if in doubt, always assume you’re racist.

I don’t know what questions white people should ask themselves to determine that. Will have to think about it.

The other problem is that whites often don’t have any motive to break through all the other walls. Simply being a good human being doesn’t seem like enough of a motive. Ok. But I am afraid some who must do it for the sake of their loved ones (those who are married to non-whites or have biracial children) are for some reason not ready to fight. Which is sad and shocking.

PS- I am not a white American (which, I believe, most of the people know), so my knowledge of the matter is different. Most of the people in my country have a so-called “pre-contact” racism which is different than the American one, but not necessarily an innocent thing.

As for the guilt and shame, I don’t know if it’s really true, but I always pictured America as a place full of support groups of all kinds. Shouldn’t there be some organizations, centers, with professional help for those people?

I tend to use the dictionary definitions of racism: the belief that race determines human traits and capabalities and/or that some “races” are inherently superior to others.

Well, true, that is racism. But whenever there’s serious “othering” of a group of people, it’s a dangerous sign. I’m not saying all the whites who see themselves as one group, and blacks as the other group are racist; however, making that difference is often- and I believe, in majority of the cases- followed by “my group is better…”- consciously or not.

“I’m not saying all the whites who see themselves as one group, and blacks as the other group are racist; however, making that difference is often- and I believe, in majority of the cases- followed by “my group is better…”- consciously or not.”

“The wall of self-interest: Few people of colour stand to gain from racism: it hurts them in society at large and, if they believe in it themselves, it leads to self-hatred. Not so for white people: racism allows them to have higher incomes, lower unemployment, safer streets, better schools and longer lives. On top of that it allows them to live comfortably in nice houses while black and Latino children in dangerous neighbourhoods go to bad schools.”

But non-white status can’t explain everything. Asians are oftentimes the victims of the prejudicial feelings of whites, but they are wealthier, less crime prone, better educated, and healthier than whites are on average.

I remember reading one book – and I have not seen this arguement anywhere else – that having friends of other races is necessarily the way forward to ending racism because, racism is not against ‘individuals’ per se rather it is against the ‘collective’.

I think a good example, forgive me here ‘The Great White Man’, please step forward. From much of what he writes you would conclude that he is anti-Black, however, he has a ‘love’ for the Black women – part of the group but not the whole group per se.

And hence my very point – well not mine really but S. Kly in the book ‘The Anti-Social Contract’

“I remember reading one book – and I have not seen this arguement anywhere else – that having friends of other races is necessarily the way forward to ending racism because, racism is not against ‘individuals’ per se rather it is against the ‘collective’.

I’d agree with this, but I think close relationships (not casual friendships usually) can help in overcoming racism. Not because of the individual, but because of the exposure that it entails. Many times you will be exposed to different people, cultures, etc. This can help in confronting racism that is based in ignorance and stereotypes.

“I think a good example, forgive me here ‘The Great White Man’, please step forward. From much of what he writes you would conclude that he is anti-Black, however, he has a ‘love’ for the Black women – part of the group but not the whole group per se.”

I do think this is odd indeed. If you say blacks have all these negative characteristics, but say you love black women and they are great in every way, that’s simply contradictory. Aren’t black women part of blacks as a whole? Furthermore, I doubt any self-respecting black woman would be enamored or even engage with someone who looked down on her family and friends.

But don’t get me wrong, I do believe having friends of other races, dating people of other races, etc might be the best way to go, because the closer you get to people of other races, the less you’re seeing them as “others”.

Still, there’s a problem of “you’re not like other (insert race here)” in which you accept your friends and partners, but still have doubts about their race as a whole (when you see them as exception to the rule).

But not to sound too pessimistic, I do think it’s possible to unlearn racism, as long as a person is ready to learn.

As for GWM, I don’t know about his motives, but it’s not the secret many men of all races can make a difference between sexual attraction an respect.

“I’d agree with this, but I think close relationships (not casual friendships usually) can help in overcoming racism. Not because of the individual, but because of the exposure that it entails.”

I sense that you may have the ‘spirit of heart’ Natasha to do this. However, certain individuals can be exposed to many different cultures and they just cannot change their attitude because of a ‘particular mindset’ to a particuar race per se, but NOT individuals within the race.

“Still, there’s a problem of “you’re not like other (insert race here)” in which you accept your friends and partners, but still have doubts about their race as a whole (when you see them as exception to the rule).”

Yes, that’s why more exposure than just one person of X race is required. If you get to know more and more people of your friend’s/partner’s race that are also “not like the others,” you might begin to think that maybe you’re judging the “others” unfairly.

I would like to add and broaden it a little further
With regard to unlearning racism, there are differing degrees methinks. Most of racism operates on a political level, its one thing to unlearn racism and another to be ‘out there’ in the ‘firing line’ whether in employment, education etc as a White person

But non-white status can’t explain everything. Asians are oftentimes the victims of the prejudicial feelings of whites, but they are wealthier, less crime prone, better educated, and healthier than whites are on average.

1) Whites are wealthier than Asians.
2) Less prone to crime doesn’t make one any less of a target.
3) Better educated…touche. But now schools are doing their damnedest to get rid of all those pesky Asian kids with their better grades, solid discipline, and mature focus.
4) Asians tend to have high rates of suicide mental illness. Go to Google and simply start to type “Asians Mental Health”.

I’m not sure about that. It may be possible to learn the outward, hateful, spiteful version or racism, but most racism is the subtle kind that people aren’t aware of because it’s in their sub-conscious. In the suggestions forum, not long ago I posted a CNN report about kindergarten aged kids that already had internalized racist views, particularly the white kids. The white kids universally thought that darker skin kids were dumb. And when asked why they thought that, all the kids could say is, “because she’s dark”. They’re getting this from somewhere. Now honestly, I’ll give the parents the benefit of the doubt and assume they didn’t make a conscious effort to teach their child to be racist. They are getting it from somewhere by subtle cues and it starts at such an early age, I’m not sure it can be wiped from the subconscious like a clean slate. The mind just doesn’t work that way.

I think the best people can realistically do is learn how to self-monitor their attitudes and behavior. Constantly be on guard of their own prejudices and ask whether their thoughts are rational or coming from internalized bigotry. Be aware of what racism is, how it manifests itself in society and how even small behaviors and attitudes contribute to it.

“In the suggestions forum, not long ago I posted a CNN report about kindergarten aged kids that already had internalized racist views, particularly the white kids…They are getting it from somewhere by subtle cues and it starts at such an early age, I’m not sure it can be wiped from the subconscious like a clean slate. The mind just doesn’t work that way.”

The human brain is an amazingly plastic organ. Connections between neurons can be severed and new ones can and are made through learning and experience.

Can White Americans be unracist? Yes, but it way harder than most of them think. That is why when they quickly say stuff like, “I am not racist” or “I do not see colour”, it is a good sign that the opposite is true.

It never ceases to amaze me, but I hear the “I am not racist/I do not see colour” statement a lot particularly the latter.

For White Americans to become ‘unracist’, there would have to be a benefit; what would be the benefit of NOT being white supremacist? The bounty and fruits impacting mental, financial, material and physical benefits are astronomical; who would give that up? They are not strong enough, and, maintenance of the status quo, ensures that their children and future generations will survive, and survive well. Being white has as much to do with resources, as it has to do with white ideology.

The rewards for giving up supremacist beliefs, would have to outweigh the benefits of being ‘white’; as of now there are none… in their eyes.

Has anyone ever noticed this…whenever someone starts off saying “Im not racist” or “I dont see colour” it doesnt talk long for them to say something racist?

LOL thats a tall tale sign something offensive is about to be said.

As for the post I think it is possible to become “unracist” to a degree. I once heard a story about a Neo Nazi/skinhead reforming and eventually marrying a black woman(IDK that would be kind of weird if you ask me, but kudos to him). However, I agree with J. The majority of white Americans are not going to become “unracist” there is no benefit for them. Its much easier to go with a flow that runs in your benefit. There is no money to be made in anti-racism. There is no payoff for challenging white skin privilege in this country. Wanting the world to become a better and fairer(LOL, no pun intended) place is not a good enough reason to challenge all of the injustice that has been perpetuated to have your group. Realistically speaking, the best case scenario is whites will realize the advantages they have been given and how it adversely effects non-whites.

Man. My comments are stuck in moderation because I used the words N@zi and Sk!n Head.

Here is what I originally posted:

Has anyone ever noticed this…whenever someone starts off saying “Im not racist” or “I dont see colour” it doesnt talk long for them to say something racist?

LOL thats a tall tale sign something offensive is about to be said.

As for the post I think it is possible to become “unracist” to a degree. I once heard a story about a Neo-N@zi/sk!nhead reforming and eventually marrying a black woman(IDK that would be kind of weird if you ask me, but kudos to him). However, I agree with J. The majority of white Americans are not going to become “unracist” there is no benefit for them. Its much easier to go with a flow that runs in your benefit. There is no money to be made in anti-racism. There is no payoff for challenging white skin privilege in this country. Wanting the world to become a better and fairer(LOL, no pun intended) place is not a good enough reason to challenge all of the injustice that has been perpetuated to have your group. Realistically speaking, the best case scenario is whites will realize the advantages they have been given and how it adversely effects non-whites.

As I reread this I realize you said “Wealth” and not per capita income… likely the mean (but probably not the median…) of wealth for Whites is higher than Asians… because wealth is accumulated over time and there are some Whites with a massive amount of wealth (Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc…) In years to come I believe this will shift.

I said the same thing in the ‘solutions to colorism’ post. People have to self-monitor their own personal feelings about race if they want to eradicate any personal racist feelings. Why? Because most of these feelings derive from a less aware state of mind.

But I agree with Natasha, experience and exposure can erase some of those subconscious thoughts.

Also,

The East and South Asians in the U.S. tend to be the “elites” from their homelands. They aren’t just general immigrants. That effects their success in the States.

The East and South Asians in the U.S. tend to be the “elites” from their homelands. They aren’t just general immigrants.

A good point…
But, I would say not the top elites (top 1/10 of 1%) since most of those families have multiple residences around the world. (Ethnic Chinese elites tend to prefer Vancouver BC in North America…) But likely ethnic Chinese and Asian Indian immigrants for the last 20 years are from at least the upper half of their societies. (in terms of income..)

However, Asian immigrants from 1970 and earlier were basically not selected for intellectual or economic prowess… a fairly high percentage came to the US to perform manual labor.

My lost friends, I’m not racist, in fact I don’t have one racist bone in my body.

I’m what you call a realist.

Seeing beauty in all women is what I’m about. Black women are gorgeous to me, it’s not about “BLACK” women, it’s about beauty period.

Racism is wrong period, not just KKK types or Black Nationalist types.

The reason I’m so against Afrocentrics and other scum of the earth types is because it is the root of hatred against white people and especially white people like me who adore black women.

I frequent a forum where I wanted to discuss IR relationships with likeminded folks, I was attacked without provocation by black dudes. Who were these black dudes, what was their belief system to say such hateful things? Afrocentrist, Black Nationalist and “Black” centered religious nutcases.

Many white people defending black afrocentrist here, like Mira, most likely have not dealt with these types of worms, if she did she would most likely understand my POV.

I cannot stand distortions of history, distortions of religions, even though myself am not religious. All these play a part in influencing the gullible masses of blacks and white peoples.

My defense is to expose these peoples beliefs as fabrications, which they most cetainly are.

Liberalism, White Guilt types like Tim WHINE are the ones keeping racism alive, not the realist.

Many black people share my POV, these people are GREAT AMERICANS!! Liberal and Racist AA call them Uncle Toms and Sellouts…smh

If what i’ve learned is true then one of the reason that One Drop Rule was such a success is that it was not primarily targeted at black folks, on the contrary its main purpose was to keep white folks in check.

What are those white fears that a man dread so much that he would rather make a assh*le of himself and indulge himself in white coated priviledges rather then face his angst?

Even though the concept of walls, is seducing, It is not explained what would a human being objectively gain from overcoming so many walls.

Could the only motivation for anti-racists in overcoming those walls be a selfless unrewarding voluntary act.

I’m curious what whites should do to tear down this wall. Perhaps avoid applying to prestigious universities even if qualified for admission? Intentionally throw a job interview or two? Approach an employer to request a pay cut? Intentionally alienate clients of a successful professional practice?

Is the requisite level of “tearing down the wall of self-interest” behavior reduced for a white person supporting a black spouse and/or black children?

“Your point is that if one can see the wrong that they are doing they will stop. Some people are like that because they just have innate decency. Most people though are not like that.”

Unfortunately, you might be correct. Which is why they need a “push” via closed friends and family.

“So, what i’m guessing is often the catalyst to changing one’s racist ways is whites’ own evaluation of effort that would have to be expended to no longer be racist. Most of them just decide it’s too much work, they will lose too many benefits, they have a 9-5 job to maintain,etc.”

I don’t even think that one stands to lose many direct benefits by becoming unracist (now becoming anti-racist is another matter). No one (i.e. whites) will know that a person is no longer racist, because most people don’t presume the average person to be racist. They don’t see anything “wrong,” so they won’t see anything “right.”

I noticed this also. There seems to be a new breed of Racist white men that equally want to sleep with Black women. They somehow believe that their racism/bigotry/or”realist” is only aimed at Black males.

That sad part about it is that some of these dim-witted Black females eat that up. As if this white guy that hates all Black men. Can suddenly look a Black woman as a different race. lol

Now how does this square with the understanding of certainwhite anti-racists that we need to discard white as a self-identifier?

Here it seems white people who wish to become anti-racist are being told that they have to take on a hyper-white identity, loading onto their own shoulders, as it were, “the shame and guilt of being white”.

How is one supposed to feel shameful and guilty about being white and yet at the same time get over being white?

“My lost friends, I’m not racist, in fact I don’t have one racist bone in my body.

I’m what you call a realist.

Seeing beauty in all women is what I’m about. Black women are gorgeous to me, it’s not about “BLACK” women, it’s about beauty period.

Racism is wrong period, not just KKK types or Black Nationalist types.

The reason I’m so against Afrocentrics and other scum of the earth types is because it is the root of hatred against white people and especially white people like me who adore black women.

I frequent a forum where I wanted to discuss IR relationships with likeminded folks, I was attacked without provocation by black dudes. Who were these black dudes, what was their belief system to say such hateful things? Afrocentrist, Black Nationalist and “Black” centered religious nutcases.

Many white people defending black afrocentrist here, like Mira, most likely have not dealt with these types of worms, if she did she would most likely understand my POV.

I cannot stand distortions of history, distortions of religions, even though myself am not religious. All these play a part in influencing the gullible masses of blacks and white peoples.

My defense is to expose these peoples beliefs as fabrications, which they most cetainly are.

Liberalism, White Guilt types like Tim WHINE are the ones keeping racism alive, not the realist.

Many black people share my POV, these people are GREAT AMERICANS!! Liberal and Racist AA call them Uncle Toms and Sellouts…smh

Btw

Condi ’2012”

Thank you once again Great White Troll for proving us right about you and other whites who think like you.

I frequent a forum where I wanted to discuss IR relationships with likeminded folks, I was attacked without provocation by black dudes. Who were these black dudes, what was their belief system to say such hateful things? Afrocentrist, Black Nationalist and “Black” centered religious nutcases.

Many white people defending black afrocentrist here, like Mira, most likely have not dealt with these types of worms, if she did she would most likely understand my POV.

True, I didn’t have the opportunity to deal with “these types” of black men. I did discuss IR relationships with black people (male and female) and nobody attacked me.

Anyway, let me see if I understand your POV: you like black women and now you’re whining about black men… for some reason. Ok, you can be racist or whatever you like, but it’s interesting here that you said I defended Afrocentrics, while some other people (like J, for example), argued I am anti-black. Which is also fine (it’s just like, your opinion, man), but I don’t understand why you used me here as an example.

PS-I did a heavy research on Afrocentrism for a project on Ancient Egypt so yes, you can say I have a rough idea about Afrocentrism, and I did formed my opinion on its good and its bad sides.

“Ok, you can be racist or whatever you like, but it’s interesting here that you said I defended Afrocentrics, while some other people (like J, for example), argued I am anti-black. Which is also fine (it’s just like, your opinion, man), but I don’t understand why you used me here as an example.”

Don’t mind GWM’s “Afrocentric” accusations. It’s his way of not ignoring any arguments that don’t agree with his own.

I’ve also been called anti-black on more than one occasion. Which I find amusing, to say the least.

I’ve been called anti-(my group), so I am used to it. Whenever I see my opinions are rejected and ridiculed by the people who hold extreme (yet, opposite) views, I say to myself: you must be doing something right.

As Joe Clyde said it’s only the dim witted that would be flattered by the likes of you. I can’t fathom for the life of me what self respecting black woman would be doing with someone who harboured ‘realist’ views like you do.

I wonder why you think afrocentricity is a threat to white people. If you attracted any vitriol from black men, based on what you tend to spew on this blog, well, one can’t be surprised.
Folks like you are two a penny, your so called flattery of black women I find quite disturbing. For a realist that fact seems lost on you.
Yours is a case in point,whites like yourself are too self serving for this topic to apply.
Instead of critisizing the likes of Jensen and Wise, whom I personally commend, how about offering up what works if that’s not up to your standards.

For me this whole discussion on unlearning racism has to be where this starts.

@TGWM

I find your posts really amusing and inciteful as they lay the contradictions bare not just in your arguments but in your lifestyle preferences too!!! At least you are trying to be honest and I commend you for that. This is just your way of attempting to display or acknowledge your non-racist credentials in a “pro-white” way. This is of course without the added burden of “guilt or shame” of being white that Thaddeous refers to.

Contrary to some opinions expressed here I do believe racism can be unlearned and this would apply to more than just American whites. This is surely just another social construction. The alternative would be to contrive, as any good ole’ racist would do, that racism is purely a”natural”.

Its NOT and never has been. And it has certainly never, to my knowledge, been observed by animals or any other life forms on this planet. So where did it originate from?

But back to my main point about being a human being and unlearning racism.

For me Mira sums this up in the comment:

…But whenever there’s serious “othering” of a group of people, it’s a dangerous sign. I’m not saying all the whites who see themselves as one group, and blacks as the other group are racist; however, making that difference is often- and I believe, in majority of the cases- followed by “my group is better…”- consciously or not…

Its this tendency to see “others” , that is, separate from yourself. In the same way one can see “women” separate from “men”. This is not an argument to say we should see everyone and everything as the same (though I could argue that on a purely science “physics level”)

Its about acknowledging, appreciating and accepting we are ALL part of this concept of a human being and then as Abgond alludes to in his comments policy: learning to ACT like one.

Its about holding onto two seemingly contradictory ideas that we are separate peoples, Black, white, Asian, Jew, etc.. AND we are all collectively one people we call human beings.

Historically, white Americans, Europeans have upheld the one idea but found it particularly difficult to “act out” the other idea in practice. Hence the racism. But why should this be so?

Essentially, I would argue it stems from the ideas of separate or connectedness. Its not one or the other its BOTH!!! Both are a fundamental part of being a human being. And this definition could be expanded to include nature, the environment and other living beings. As these things can be seen simply as an extension of oneself.

These ideas of course are nothing new and have been reflected in the beliefs and customs of many indigenous peoples of colour throughout the world.

Perhaps when the present dominant “civilizations” of this world come back to embracing this “natural” system of beliefs – and there are signs this is happening – white Americans (all white people for that matter) can begin unlearning the “unnatural” belief system of racism without the need for attachment of shame or guilt in this process.

Thank you for understanding my POV. You see I’m not racist one bit but to an Afrocentrist or a Black Nationalist I am…Those types of people do not grasp reality. I’ve proven time and time again that most of their beliefs are bogus but instead of looking at the evidence they will spew insults at me..smh

If I declare beauty for a black woman…I’m a fetishist…smh

If I don’t believe their warped view of the world…I’m racist..smh

AA with likeminded views(Great Americans) are sell-outs, Toms and Mammies…smh

You cannot teach an Afrocentrist the truth, because in his/her warped mind…HE/SHE ALREADY KNOWS THE TRUTH NO MATTER HOW MUCH EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY..smh

Again thank you for understanding my posts, and I do try to put humor in my posts also…sometimes I do go overboard I guess lol

Perhaps you will agree that part of being non-racist or unlearning racism is learning to appreciate that, for all your passion and sense of conviction, no one person or group has a universal conception of what reality or truth is.

So when you say: You see I’m not racist one bit but to an Afrocentrist or a Black Nationalist I am…Those types of people do not grasp reality. I’ve proven time and time again that most of their beliefs are bogus but instead of looking at the evidence they will spew insults at me..smh

You should not be surprised that “Afrocentrists” or “Black Nationalists”, as you put it, should not agree with “The Great White Man’s version of truth and reality!!!

Particularly as it seeks to exclude or diminish them!!!

Now heres one of those contradictions that I love so much in your posts:

“..You cannot teach an Afrocentrist the truth, because in his/her warped mind…HE/SHE ALREADY KNOWS THE TRUTH NO MATTER HOW MUCH EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY..smh…

Is this not exactly what an “Afrocentrist” (or anyone else for that matter) would say about someone they perceive as being racist?

Your last statement is not a contradiction. When you have proof, including DNA evidence, visual evidence, actual writings and descriptions to back up my stance but still be called a racist, a liar, ect….is not contradiction…it’s delusion on their part.

Afrocentrist don’t care about truth, they only care to best the white man and will do whatever it takes to do it. Of course they fail miserably in this, but are a success to the gullible masses of AA who are jealous of others history and accomplishments. Slavery also plays a part in it…the bitterness is too overwhelming for their overblown egos.

So, the only way to stroke this ego and to ease their jealousy and bitterness is to create alternate histories. In other words STEAL history to compete with the white man. To attempt to show the white man that they are better and that us white people stole everything from them.

It’s really a psychosis that should be studied to find the root cause of the illness. If I were to guess I believe it’s most likely the effect of slavery and the fact that sub-Saharan Africans didn’t have any recorded history. All history is recorded by the White man, the Arab and the Berber(white North African)

We will have to continue this later..I hope you can see where I am coming from.

what anyone black person [or anyone for that matter] should be thinking about when duscussing whether or not there are non racist whites out there is this- what makes a person non racist? to me, it is education and understanding. being smart. ok, let me explain my thinking.

im white and male, and have never fit in with onther people. just didnt. i was always the smart one who drew in class instead of learned what tv shows and video games were cool. in middle school, i was the athiest. in high school, the ‘nonconformist musician’. i didnt get along with alot of people, most of them white. i went to two high schools both in the city. lots of whies and blacks. i hated them both the same. they were so similar to me, both competing for popularity among their peers, following trends, caring about things i deemed childish. they were both pitiful and judgmental to me. i think only the smart and intellectual can be non racist, no matter the race, because idiot ignorant trend following fools will always follow the propaganda of their dumb bretheren.

one thing i never understood is how blacks who are educated, and obviously have a mature view of the wrld and are opinionated, etc accept the whole ‘ghetto’ thing. it seems like some young blacks view the ghetto attitude and everytying that comes with it as a necessity when black in america. to me, it repulses me the same way a trashy hillbilly family in west virginia might talk or act. loud and abnoctious, for the sake of being that way.

but, my point is, the smart must group together, and then we will realize only the intelligent can be free thinking, intergrated people.

Racism cannot be unlearned in the sense that Tim Whine would mean. You could force some type of double-think on yourself and convince yourself that the equality myth actually exists but the fact that reality stubbornly refuses to mach the equal utopia will forever mar the dreams lefty white-haters.

There is no great white conspiracy, there is only great black failure. And there is nothing that whites can do about it since it’s written in their genes.No government program can fix this now or in the immediate future (future technology maybe?). 100 years from now I don’t know who will be top dog in the world (the West or China) but I can assure you who will be at he bottom of the barrel.

The whole idea that because of racism black and Latino neighborhoods are dangerous is ridiculous. Black and Latino neighborhoods are dangerous because they are Black and Latino. As for the racism part we must remember Auster’s law corollary “The more egregiously any non-Western or non-white group behaves, the more evil whites are made to appear for noticing and drawing rational conclusions about that group’s bad behavior.”

Temple, I am not GWM, and you can confirm this with Abagond. In fact, he’s the only poster here who I’ve asked to be censored. Twice now.

But it seems to me telling that you can’t distinguish my position from his. The problem’s not mine, but yours Temple.

I have been quite clear on many occasions here that I am against the concept of racial pride and unity NO MATTER what the color.

I have also, on several occasions, fought bitterly with J and B.R. over the idea that culture or civilization diffuses from one or a handful of points. I think the idea of “European” or “African” civilization is so much Victorian BS.

And I have never – but never – come on here or anywhere else drooling about how certain kinds of peoples should be wiped from the face of the globe, as GW constantly does.

I have no trouble with you thinking that I’m a racist, in exactly the same way that I have no trouble with similarly-minded right-wing Americans who think I am a communist.

But if you feel that you’re some sort of savvy anti-racist and you can’t perceive the mile-wide gap between GWM’s positions and mine, then that doesn’t auger very well for this supposedly “innate survival apparatus” that all “people of color” have when confronted with white supremacy.

You are confusing a white supremacist with someone who radically rejects the concept of ethnic-based politics.

Not so for white people: racism allows them to have higher incomes, lower unemployment, safer streets, better schools and longer lives. On top of that it allows them to live comfortably in nice houses while black and Latino children in dangerous neighbourhoods go to bad schools.

It also makes people irrationally fear those they think are different from them, it is a loss of human and community potential to dismiss part of the population (for example, not to hire someone who would be the best person for the job because of their skin color, or not to educate all kids to the best of our ability as a society — better educated people who have jobs and businesses create more jobs, and prison is expensive). It makes poor economic sense, and it’s immoral.

That kid who goes to a badly-funded school could be the person who grows up to create a clean energy source or win a peace prize, or just raises a happy, healthy family, so shutting down human potential based on something like a person’s race has no benefit at all.

[…] The five walls « Abagond Can White Americans be unracist? Yes, but it way harder than most of them think. That is why when they quickly say stuff like, “I am not racist” or “I do not see colour”, it is a good sign that the opposite is true. Those who have honestly fought against their own racism do not talk like that. […]

I don’t have any shame and guilt about being white. This is presumably based on bad things white people have done to non-white people historically (right?). I just don’t feel (and don’t actually have) the slightest bit of moral culpability for things that happened before I was born. I only feel guilt for things that I have done wrong. Who would blame a young German for the holocaust? I wouldn’t. He didn’t take part and couldn’t have stopped it. He has exactly zero moral responsibility for it.

Do I think that what Europeans did to native Americans was wrong? Yes! I like native Americans and I wish they never did it. Do I feel responsible or guilty? No! This is my attitude and I’m pretty sure there is no deeper guilt to be revealed later.

Anyway, my ancestors were Irish and they got dominated and controlled by the British, involving cruel oppression and the loss of native language. Ireland was basically a colony as far as I can tell. So maybe I should identify with the other colonies!

Here is something interesting I have just realised though: I am proud of my city and its architecture (Liverpool) but I don’t feel guilty about the fact it was built with money made through the slave trade and empire. I just don’t. I wouldn’t be proud of those buildings if it was still happening now and I could readily make the connection but it is history. I don’t even think about it tbh. Maybe I should. Maybe I will next time.

To some extent, I think those things happened at a time when humans (and Brits- the persecutors of my ancestors) were at an earlier stage of moral development. All empires I know of up to and including the British empire had practiced slavery- as bad as it was, it was normal and practically universal at the time. I can feel it was wrong and accept that it happened and not feel guilty about them at the same time.

The British empire was then the first empire to abolish slavery- moral progress for the Brits and for humankind. Now most people, all over the world, no longer feel that it is acceptable.

This makes me think about the nature of history in general. Its been the same with all great civilisations from all around the world. They have all been built partly with the blood and labour and wealth and resources of outsiders who they dominated or captured, and even of oppressed an exploited insiders. So many of the achievements and progress are connected to these kinds of evils and it couldn’t really be any other way. Its the historical process. You could perhaps talk about it having a light and dark side. The best you can hope for is that we can improve, be better and hopefully that is part of the process a la the enlightenment vision of progress.

As regards race, I don’t think anything Europeans did historically says anything about the nature of white people. I think it says something about the nature of people in general. I don’t think white people, at a genetic level, have any greater propensity to evil than Asians or Africans. So why feel ashamed of being white?

I hope nothing I say is taken wrong. I’m truly not trying to be offensive in any way.

I am “white”, and I’m ashamed to say my father’s side of the family is typical southern white. There are a mix of rednecks, as well as a mix of WASPs. Thankfully, I grew up with my mom in California. She was a single mom, and I grew up in poverty and on welfare as she struggled to make ends meet. Now, of course everyone sees color. But I’m being honest when I say I didn’t know what “black” or “white” was until I was 5 or 6 years old, when I entered kindergarten or first grade. I saw different colors of course, but my mom had taught me skin color was like eye or hair color, and that we are all different shades of brown. She didn’t minimize or exemplify any race or ethnicity over the other. So, until I was 5 or 6, I honestly never put much thought into it. When I came home from school asking why people called me white, or another person black, I remember her being angry and sitting me down to explain that unfortunately, some people couldn’t see past a person’s skin tone to actually see their personality, and that they had to assign different colors with historically negative associations to skin to make themselves feel better, and others feel awful. I asked why they didn’t do that with eye or hair color instead, since it was basically the same thing, and the only response I got was, “exactly.”

As I grew up and came to understand that racism was unfortunately still alive, I became an equal rights activist, and still am to this day. You are right that it is silly to say “I don’t see color”, but I kind of disagree about the statement “I am not racist”. I have fought for equal rights for all for my entire life, and am now standing up for the protests that have been going on.

My question is, as a “white” person, what should I say or do to not be seen as the problem?

What I would say first of all is for you not to be ashamed on behalf of whites who have racist attitudes, even if they are family. I am not ashamed on behalf of blacks who are doing wrong or saying stupid things. I try to conduct myself in the best manner possible and be a good, law abiding citizen. When I see wrong, I call it out. When I do wrong, I listen to those I wronged and try to understand and correct myself. As a white person, I think you should do the same. Listen, try and understand, educate yourself and speak up when you hear people saying racist things. When you do that, you are part of a solution instead of the problem. Just my humble opinion.

@jefe No, not at all. There are certainly racists out there. I know I’m not one (or I guess, as not one as it is possible to be), so it doesn’t make me uncomfortable. It just makes me uncomfortable when all of a certain race is stereotyped as racist. White people in general certainly deserve this reputation (and the BLM movement has really proven that lately), I don’t refute that at all, just as long as everyone sees that there are some of us out there who DO try our hardest to listen and learn.

@jefe Yes, Bernie Sanders. He is the only one I see taking these issues (and other important issues) seriously, and talking about them. He marched with MLK and did sit-ins in the 60’s, and again, he constantly talks about institutional racism, and how we should go about starting to fix it. I don’t feel like he can take these issues any more seriously than he already does.

As for “DO”, perhaps continuing to shed light for other people to see that, as the article above does point out, just because you aren’t part of the KKK doesn’t mean you aren’t subtly contributing to racism.