A large batch of destroyed Ukrainian vehicles. Where and under what circumstances is unclear, but the rebels are claiming that they've advanced on
Starobeshevo and defeated a National Guard unit there.

Ukrainian MinDef published a story about two Ukrainian officers who blew themselves up using handgrenades, rather them be captured, with 12 Russian
VDV soldiers. However a Ukrainian volunteer who was released from rebel captivity promptly revealed the story to be a lie, reporting that he saw one
of the officers (who blew themselves up) alive and well in rebel hands.

A Ukrainian volunteer says that the vehicles they're pulling out of storage are in absolutely awful conditions, and that the reason territorial btlns
are not getting vehicles because there are no vehicles to give them.

Family members of the Ukrainian soldiers surrounded in the conflict zone, have besieged the Ministry of Defense. They're demanding to speak with the
Ukrainian MinDef. They're also demanding that vehicles and heavy equipment be provided to the volunteer btlns.

While both sides are certainly not squeeky clean, at least the Russians are letting people out:

Putin issued an emergency statement requesting that the rebels create humanitarian corridors for letting the Ukrainian soldiers return to their
families.

Said it on another thread but the Ukraine could easily turn into the next Syria, all depends on how big the Russian offensive becomes eg. will they
advance beyond the East?

there's every indication that russia tried to show mercy to the ukraine soldiers who defect.

in fact it is a great strategy , propagandawise , to let the enemy know they will be treated fairly and returned home safely if they surrender.. it
will destroy morale and fighting will.. If the militia torture and killed their prisoners, it will only strengten the ukraine soldiers will to fight
and make every fight harder to win..

looking at that armour column destroyed by grad reminded me that war between enemy with heavy weapons are not as clean as the decades of police
action of american/NATO against insurgents...

anyone here remember the destruction of american convoy (partial) when iraqi military fired a missile on the convoy ? i think it was in the battle of
baghdad.

the point is , US military should take notes on this war and retrain their military mindset to fight against enemy with near parity of weapon support,
instead of focusing on low intensity guerilla conflicts. In the event of war with such enemy, there wont be any helicopter assault landing or medevacs
or even low level airsupport since everything will be shot down by MANPADS..

the point is , US military should take notes on this war and retrain their military mindset to fight against enemy with near parity of weapon support,
instead of focusing on low intensity guerilla conflicts. In the event of war with such enemy, there wont be any helicopter assault landing or medevacs
or even low level airsupport since everything will be shot down by MANPADS..

You failed to take notice that a lot of the countries the US has been engaged with used Soviet / Russian military equipment. We are familiar with the
weapons we would be going up against in an armed conflict with Russia. Secondly you are ignoring the second half of that thought process, which is to
say the Russians are not familiar with the US arsenal.

the point is , US military should take notes on this war and retrain their military mindset to fight against enemy with near parity of weapon support,
instead of focusing on low intensity guerilla conflicts. In the event of war with such enemy, there wont be any helicopter assault landing or medevacs
or even low level airsupport since everything will be shot down by MANPADS..

You failed to take notice that a lot of the countries the US has been engaged with used Soviet / Russian military equipment. We are familiar with the
weapons we would be going up against in an armed conflict with Russia. Secondly you are ignoring the second half of that thought process, which is to
say the Russians are not familiar with the US arsenal.

An active war is a hell of a way to learn about capabilities.

sorry , it will take an active war to mold and shape the fighting force of US military to prepare itself toward the real war , instead of the decade
long police actions it now used to. It is arrogance and hubris for US goverment to think too highly of their military considering they cannot even won
wars since world war 2 against real militaries.

Russia has not fought a real war since WWII and were getting their asses handed to them, and rightfully so for allying with the Nazis in the first
place.

The state of the Russian military is sickening. The top of the line units are being used in Ukraine, and thus far Russia should reconsider its
training.

the defeat of russian forces in afghanistan and chechnya were a myth propagated by western media.. russia's 1st foray into grozny was marred with
incompentece and unpreparedness , thus explained the massive losses from the 1st war. i doubt any NATO forces would fare better against the chechen
guerillas..

Unlike the US's war in afghanistan, Russia's war in afghanistan was more intense and with america heavily arming the mujaheddin. If the russian
armed the talibans , there wont be american / nato forces left in afghanistan nowadays..

the point is , US military should take notes on this war and retrain their military mindset to fight against enemy with near parity of weapon support,
instead of focusing on low intensity guerilla conflicts. In the event of war with such enemy, there wont be any helicopter assault landing or medevacs
or even low level airsupport since everything will be shot down by MANPADS..

You failed to take notice that a lot of the countries the US has been engaged with used Soviet / Russian military equipment. We are familiar with the
weapons we would be going up against in an armed conflict with Russia. Secondly you are ignoring the second half of that thought process, which is to
say the Russians are not familiar with the US arsenal.

An active war is a hell of a way to learn about capabilities.

Russia doesn't export their best weapons because they don't want a countermeasure to be developed. Russian radars are designed to detect all US
stealth aircraft. The US has never fully invaded a country that possessed weapons of mass destruction. The US stopped short of invading Baghdad in
1991 because of the chemical weapon threat. Weapons of mass destruction are an equalizer. Even North Korea is immune from US attack. Russia is
dependent on their nuclear weapons. They have stated that they maintain the right to use nuclear weapons if attacked by conventional weapons. They
have recently adopted a nuclear first strike option and are considering going back to launch on warning. You can't really blame them given recent US
behavior. Their chemical weapons are the most advanced in the world. VX is nothing compared to Novichok agents. Also, they have a well developed
biological weapons program, especially weaponized genetically engineered anthrax.

Russia has not fought a real war since WWII and were getting their asses handed to them, and rightfully so for allying with the Nazis in the first
place.

The state of the Russian military is sickening. The top of the line units are being used in Ukraine, and thus far Russia should reconsider its
training.

The US has fought real wars since WWII and lost every one of them. Russia didn't ally with the NAZIs. They had a non aggression pact. Big
difference. Russia won World War II by defeating NAZI Germany. You would be speaking German right now without their sacrifice. So what if the top
of the line units supposedly are being used in Ukraine? Ukraine got their assess kicked with 28,000 dead and wounded. The conflict started with zero
Russian soldiers, just supplying ordinary Donbass citizens and a small number of Russian volunteers. Russia got directly involved after thousands of
Kiev's troops were already killed. That is a pretty good strategy. Russia has reconstituted its military. Western propaganda tells you that the
state of the Russian military is "sickening". It is not true. Russia has been modernizing its military since Putin came to power specifically
designed to defeat the US, mostly in new nuclear weapons designed to defeat missile defense.

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