doing most zones 3man... and why do they do this? cause they are after a challenge.

Noone is after a pve challenge (at least not the ppl I know in game), that's where you are wrong. Occasionally it's fun to run something with just a few ppl, but in the long run it's just not fun but extremely boring. It's all about the community, the social aspect (and eventually pk), that's why this change hurts.

The only fun I've had in this game the last few wipes was 2manning everything but the two hardest fights.

I got soth solo to bad or v.bad solo. Corpse decayed by then. Was to lazy to get fresh corpse. I return next day for second round, and he decided it's not a good day to play. I got pwk on 2nd entry into the room.

There is no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of elite players who can do the majority of the game with small groups. However, I believe the majority of players, I'll call them "the average players" cannot do or are not willing to do because of time constraints. In my current clan there are about 20 people and you can pretty much break them down into 3 groups.

-(Hardcores) 5 are hardcore guys who play all day everday, can do just about everything, and legend their characters in the first week.- (Average) 10 are average players, who play 3-5 days a week when they get home from work etc, who just want to log on, get summoned to group and zone and have fun. Some are legend, some are not, those who are are working towards it but just do not have the time.-(Superdads) the remaining 5 are guys who basically can play like 2-5 hours a week, log on from their phone while their wife is taking a shower or asleep so they can get in some mud without getting wife.agroed. They barely play but they play when they can and they still enjoy the game and the grouping.

However, since the 8 man change, the superdads NEVER get into groups now, and we have had 2 average players and 1 hardcore already quit because there is just never any room in the group for them, mostly based on class dynamic. For example, if you are a mage, thief, or second healer, there is literally never any room for you in the group unless everybody else has logged off. Mages do nothing to contribute to a group nowadays that they can't do outside of the group (locating or zone specific stuff), and after flank being removed, thieves do jack shit in groups, and if a thief gets tired of the solo content, he is saying goodbye to arcticmud. A second healer is pointless, because if there is already a healer, the secondary healer cannot output dps (since animate dead nerf) so he is utterly useless as well.

Basically because of the 8 man groups, we are forced to have are best 8 guys in the group at all times. Those are the guys with the best gear and best class dynamic. And since they are all of the aforementioned they are also getting the most rank ponts and outranking the already behind guys. And I know there are all these theories like "create a second group" or form a new clan. But that doesn't happen in reality and people just quit from boredom and find other games to play.

So my point is I agree that if anything they should remove the group cap or expand it back to 13-20 when arctic was the most fun. Nobody has hypothesized yet so far that the arctic population has shrunk because the group size shrunk, but instead they claim the opposite, that the group size shrunk because of a shrinking population. However as somebody already previously stated, the group size was made smaller because characters were double annialating instead of massacring, not because the playerbase was dwindling. The population shrinks because players get bored, players get bored because they cannot zone. Players cannot zone because there is a limit to group size. The end.

Creating new clans happens. Maybe not often but it happens. Rise wasn't around some wipes ago, nor was LoS or etc etc.

I am not sure why they went from 10 to 8 really, it doesn't make much difference in terms of legends and group power. It does alienate people though and that's not cool. A group limit of 13-20 is not the answer either. 20man group? That's half the mud sometimes! And in later months it'll be the entire mud.

Making another group is always an option and it good one. But then the argument is, who wants to do storms when the other group is doing sleet or something?

I would like to see more clans pop up out of this mess. More dynamic. Gives the mid-range clans someone to compete against.

At first I thought the 8 man group would be something different and interesting. Mostly because it was announced at the end of last wipe when it was nearly impossible to find 10 people to find a group. I had forgotten the wipe-rush frenzy when there are 10-15 people on in a clan at a given time. I agree with the majority that have posted so far. The group limit should be expanded back to 10-12 imo. I've seen 3-5 rise already "quit" because they never get in the group and it is frustrating as a clan leader to either A take a worthless character in the group so they get some group time or B take the most efficient group even if that means someone sitting on the sidelines for the whole weekend.

Logged

snax

At first I thought the 8 man group would be something different and interesting. Mostly because it was announced at the end of last wipe when it was nearly impossible to find 10 people to find a group. I had forgotten the wipe-rush frenzy when there are 10-15 people on in a clan at a given time. I agree with the majority that have posted so far. The group limit should be expanded back to 10-12 imo. I've seen 3-5 rise already "quit" because they never get in the group and it is frustrating as a clan leader to either A take a worthless character in the group so they get some group time or B take the most efficient group even if that means someone sitting on the sidelines for the whole weekend.

I like your post the best. As one of the typically sidelined let's get the population shouting grouping with mixed people etc. I had an adopt a tank adopt a healer session the other day and yeah I kept wondering "is this faceless healer going to absolutely suck?" and while the healer was fine, the dynamics were a retro-throwback because there were so many layers of cooperation and clicks absent. A lot of the problem clans are having is not that they're sidelining players, it's that they have 70% of their players wanting to solo or 2 man for 90000 things straight for their own legend status or their own gear needs, leaving the players who don't even known 10 things to do stuck grumbling no one loves them. Give the chaff a whack in the side of the head and give them something worth doing! If they're quiting because they have nothing to do, so be it. There are pros and cons to every decision.

The group size change is something that we are closely monitoring. I would agree that moving the limit to 8 did not immediately change the group power scale all that much, however the original idea was to move to a limit of 6. I have appreciated the few of you that have taken the time to provide your well thought out feedback. At this point in the wipe we just do not have enough data to guide us either way, and moving the group limit back to 10 would be a knee-jerk reaction to the few of you that are whining.

The group size change is something that we are closely monitoring. I would agree that moving the limit to 8 did not immediately change the group power scale all that much, however the original idea was to move to a limit of 6. I have appreciated the few of you that have taken the time to provide your well thought out feedback. At this point in the wipe we just do not have enough data to guide us either way, and moving the group limit back to 10 would be a knee-jerk reaction to the few of you that are whining.

The few that's "whining" are about 50% of this games population and most of them are leaders in some clans. So yes I would listen to their "whining". Thanks for the asinine remarks though.