Yeah because we already work awfully damn hard trying to keep some semblance of order around here. You think we need we need more bogus crap to deal with?

Get real.

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moevillini-- I sense some hostility; there is no need to be upset.

I understand your stated concerns. You are a moderator, and as such you've voiced an issue for the moderator's group from that perspective. A perfectly legitimate issue. I will take it into account going forward.

On the other side of the proverbial coin of this conversation, I hope you're able to see you and I are just that--2 sides of the same 1 coin.
You voiced the moderator's issue, and all I am doing is speaking from the perspective of the common poster. No, we do not have a tight-knit small group of select elites with bright badges to separate from the riff-raff; but we do have numbers, and in numbers there is strength. For every 1 moderator, there are thousands of us. I am simply an advocate of the people, and I champion for our causes. This being one of those causes--a very important one, I believe.

Now, back to the topic at hand. Your issue makes perfect sense, in fact it highlights the root of the problem this thread was build upon. Why did I not realize the moderators were already working 'awfully damn hard'? Because there are 8 moderators on this site, and I hardly ever see any of them doing anything. The problem here isn't that they aren't doing anything, no, please don't get it twisted. The problem is that I can not SEE what they're doing, if anything at all.

Now, if you do not like the idea of adding-on to the current process to improve this site--what do you think about simply providing more visibility to the existing process? I'm not exactly sure how things work (again, due to the lack of visibility/transparency), but I've heard through the grapevine there is a private mod forum, in which certain issues are "voted" upon, with mods offering up rationals to their votes and whatnot. Is this correct? If so, why not let us see behind this curtain? Not suggesting posters be allowed to participate or even comment, just be aware--if they so choose.

A moderator's goal shouldn't be to punish and rule with an iron fist. Of course that is sometimes necessary, but ultimately the goal should be to foster an environment in which punishment is not needed very much--certainly not to the point of 8 moderators working "awfully damn hard." I'm trying to protect our posters--yes. But I'm also trying to make your job a little easier, all while trying to make this a better place. I don't think most posters here are inherently bad. I don't believe most here try to get frac'd/ban'd. A lot of the times, they don't really know they'll be frac'd for something until they actually receive the unfortunate message in their inbox. Had some of these posters been able to look upon past cases for examples and whatnot, perhaps they would have avoided it themselves. Message board moderating isn't black & white, so there is a lot of gray area. If the rules were simply "25MPH" like on a road, then it would make sense to have little visibility, as the rule is clear. But if the rule is something like "trolling," then the real-life counterpart wouldn't be "25MPH"-- it would be "low MPH." What is low? 15MPH? 35MPH? 25MPH? 85MPH? Tough to say. But if there were records of others showing which range others have received tickets, it would become a lot more clear. Right?

Lady Godiva once rode her horse naked to lower the taxes weighing on her people's back. That king that bargained with her must be a superior troll. I would post the image but this might end in an infraction point.

The rules are as clear as they can be. We interpret those rules and bring in a user's history to make a decision. This site is pretty lenient in terms of the those that don't follow the rules. The rules are posted and when posts or items that are in violation are brought to the moderator's attention, they are voted upon and action is taken. MANY warnings are given out which aren't binding other than a record of the incident. Infractions are typically given out after repeat offenses or offenses that are considered more blatant. But what is an infraction? A demerit? And that demerit rolls off in time. It takes quite a bit to receive any "punishment" as a result.

Now making these items public does NOTHING for the health of the community. Not to mention the back-seat moderating that already goes on that you yourself participate in actively. It adds work to the plate of those that were asked to help FOR FREE and sets them up for ridicule.

I respectfully decline to make our moderation public as I haven't been convinced it provides ANY value.

The rules are as clear as they can be. We interpret those rules and bring in a user's history to make a decision. This site is pretty lenient in terms of the those that don't follow the rules. The rules are posted and when posts or items that are in violation are brought to the moderator's attention, they are voted upon and action is taken. MANY warnings are given out which aren't binding other than a record of the incident. Infractions are typically given out after repeat offenses or offenses that are considered more blatant. But what is an infraction? A demerit? And that demerit rolls off in time. It takes quite a bit to receive any "punishment" as a result.

Now making these items public does NOTHING for the health of the community. Not to mention the back-seat moderating that already goes on that you yourself participate in actively. It adds work to the plate of those that were asked to help FOR FREE and sets them up for ridicule.

I respectfully decline to make our moderation public as I haven't been convinced it provides ANY value.

I understand your stated concerns. You are a moderator, and as such you've voiced an issue for the moderator's group from that perspective. A perfectly legitimate issue. I will take it into account going forward.

On the other side of the proverbial coin of this conversation, I hope you're able to see you and I are just that--2 sides of the same 1 coin.
You voiced the moderator's issue, and all I am doing is speaking from the perspective of the common poster. No, we do not have a tight-knit small group of select elites with bright badges to separate from the riff-raff; but we do have numbers, and in numbers there is strength. For every 1 moderator, there are thousands of us. I am simply an advocate of the people, and I champion for our causes. This being one of those causes--a very important one, I believe.

Now, back to the topic at hand. Your issue makes perfect sense, in fact it highlights the root of the problem this thread was build upon. Why did I not realize the moderators were already working 'awfully damn hard'? Because there are 8 moderators on this site, and I hardly ever see any of them doing anything. The problem here isn't that they aren't doing anything, no, please don't get it twisted. The problem is that I can not SEE what they're doing, if anything at all.

Now, if you do not like the idea of adding-on to the current process to improve this site--what do you think about simply providing more visibility to the existing process? I'm not exactly sure how things work (again, due to the lack of visibility/transparency), but I've heard through the grapevine there is a private mod forum, in which certain issues are "voted" upon, with mods offering up rationals to their votes and whatnot. Is this correct? If so, why not let us see behind this curtain? Not suggesting posters be allowed to participate or even comment, just be aware--if they so choose.

A moderator's goal shouldn't be to punish and rule with an iron fist. Of course that is sometimes necessary, but ultimately the goal should be to foster an environment in which punishment is not needed very much--certainly not to the point of 8 moderators working "awfully damn hard." I'm trying to protect our posters--yes. But I'm also trying to make your job a little easier, all while trying to make this a better place. I don't think most posters here are inherently bad. I don't believe most here try to get frac'd/ban'd. A lot of the times, they don't really know they'll be frac'd for something until they actually receive the unfortunate message in their inbox. Had some of these posters been able to look upon past cases for examples and whatnot, perhaps they would have avoided it themselves. Message board moderating isn't black & white, so there is a lot of gray area. If the rules were simply "25MPH" like on a road, then it would make sense to have little visibility, as the rule is clear. But if the rule is something like "trolling," then the real-life counterpart wouldn't be "25MPH"-- it would be "low MPH." What is low? 15MPH? 35MPH? 25MPH? 85MPH? Tough to say. But if there were records of others showing which range others have received tickets, it would become a lot more clear. Right?

That is all. Is that too much to ask?

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Nice write up JI

Sometimes you come off as crazy, then you go and write up this beautiful piece.