This. The difference is that we'll never know about Nirvana, but we have a good idea with Joy Division. Their music was a collaborative effort (unlike Nirvana's - Cobain was the main songwriter), and I believe had Ian Curtis not killed himself, their trajectory would have been roughly the same as New Order's - post punk evolving into the more synth-pop dance music they're known for.

The Dogs of War:It would be awesome if this contains a complete understandable version on Ceremony

*wantwantwant*.jpg

*reallyreallywant*.jpg

CSB time:

At a friend's wedding he asked the DJ to play "Ceremony" as the first dance song but the guy ended up putting the wrong "Substance" disk in and played "In a Lonely Place". The divorce was less than a year later.

This. The difference is that we'll never know about Nirvana, but we have a good idea with Joy Division. Their music was a collaborative effort (unlike Nirvana's - Cobain was the main songwriter), and I believe had Ian Curtis not killed himself, their trajectory would have been roughly the same as New Order's - post punk evolving into the more synth-pop dance music they're known for.

Karma Chameleon:Re: Joy Division - much like Nirvana, would anyone give a shiat about them today if their frontmen were still alive?

I may have misunderstood, though (sorry - I've had a bit of whiskey). Do you mean "if [Curtis] were still alive" or if Curtis hadn't killed himself? To me, those mean different things. If it's the latter, then I think you sort of have a point. I do think that his committing suicide shrouds Joy Division in some mystery and maybe elevates them to more legendary status among some people. Still, they were a great, influential band.

This. The difference is that we'll never know about Nirvana, but we have a good idea with Joy Division. Their music was a collaborative effort (unlike Nirvana's - Cobain was the main songwriter), and I believe had Ian Curtis not killed himself, their trajectory would have been roughly the same as New Order's - post punk evolving into the more synth-pop dance music they're known for.

This is even evidenced in many of the bootlegged albums of the late 80's containing live versions of Joy Division songs. They had a lot of syth-pop influence and vibe during those live shows. I think Curtis' influence on New Order would only have been really well crafted lyrics for a few songs. Heck they might have still be really depressing for an entire decade- who knows.

All I want to know is who is going to step up and be the collector that takes these recordings. I want someone to do it rather soon and hopefully just get great rips of all the songs-then post them on torrents. I doubt the artists would like that but if they wanted to make money off the recordings they would step up and buy the recordings themselves. In the 21st century there are few ways to control your copyright- one is to completely control the product. Don't want it on the internet or distributed for free? Having it in this form is the way to go- just buy up the recordings and either store them or destroy them. I know destroying them would be terrible for people who are interested but if the artist is serious about artistic control then go that route. If the artist want to get some money out of it still then just purchase the copies and release them in the future for cash. Not a big deal- its their material anyway. And with these older recordings its not difficult to come to some kind of mutual agreement with a recordings specialist to digitize the music and release it on itunes or what not.

Went on youtube to try and listen to a few different versions of ceremony, since people keep mentioning it and I don't really recall ever having heard it before. The music was good, then the vocals kicked in, and I couldn't understand a word. Anyone have a link to a version that doesn't sound like you're listening to it through a wall?

UnderwaterAlly:Went on youtube to try and listen to a few different versions of ceremony, since people keep mentioning it and I don't really recall ever having heard it before. The music was good, then the vocals kicked in, and I couldn't understand a word. Anyone have a link to a version that doesn't sound like you're listening to it through a wall?

With Joy Division, they never recorded a usable version. The best copy of it is on Still. After his death, they did some studio magic to isolate the vocals and try to transcribe it. New Order released their best take of it on Substance. Radiohead also did a cover during their Dead Air Space recording. All of these are available on YouTube and worth the listen.

maybe at most 6 months ago, Hooky in either Mojo or UNCUT was asked about a rumor that an upcoming Irish singer volunteered to take over for Ian after his suicide.

Hooky said something like, "Rob Gretton / Martin Hannett / Tony Wilson later told me Bono offered to take over, but, the rest of us were never told, but yeah, that happened." which means...

Re: Joy Division - much like Nirvana, would anyone give a shiat about them today if their frontmen were still alive?

we'll never know, but independently of how one feels about U2, if Bono -- just after "Boy" -- jumps to form Joy Division 2.0, you could argue at minimum "War" and its progeny don't happen. "October" probably. Because it isn't like Bono started a landslide in his ego in the wake of Ian's death.

shiat on U2 if you like, but American pop music is remarkably different with or without you too.

wow. I'm sending some full shows to a friend so I have two versions from 1989, pristine soundboards* from a US tour that are worth a listen. email if you want them.

*the story as I recall was a former bandmate of Hooky's circa the early 90s left one of his sidebands quit or was fired, and in anger stole a bunch of DATs from Hooky, which later entered circulation. I got mine from a trade-friendly website. Irvine, CA 6/16/89 and the other is I think July /89, site and venue unknown.

UnderwaterAlly:Went on youtube to try and listen to a few different versions of ceremony, since people keep mentioning it and I don't really recall ever having heard it before. The music was good, then the vocals kicked in, and I couldn't understand a word. Anyone have a link to a version that doesn't sound like you're listening to it through a wall?

The best one (there are only 3 known recordings with Curtis' vocals) is probably on the reissue of Still from a soundcheck ((here)

The other 2 versions are a rough studio demo (one of the last things JD recorded) and their last gig which was ruined by an incompetent soundman.

This. The difference is that we'll never know about Nirvana, but we have a good idea with Joy Division. Their music was a collaborative effort (unlike Nirvana's - Cobain was the main songwriter), and I believe had Ian Curtis not killed himself, their trajectory would have been roughly the same as New Order's - post punk evolving into the more synth-pop dance music they're known for.

This is even evidenced in many of the bootlegged albums of the late 80's containing live versions of Joy Division songs. They had a lot of syth-pop influence and vibe during those live shows. I think Curtis' influence on New Order would only have been really well crafted lyrics for a few songs. Heck they might have still be really depressing for an entire decade- who knows.

All I want to know is who is going to step up and be the collector that takes these recordings. I want someone to do it rather soon and hopefully just get great rips of all the songs-then post them on torrents. I doubt the artists would like that but if they wanted to make money off the recordings they would step up and buy the recordings themselves. In the 21st century there are few ways to control your copyright- one is to completely control the product. Don't want it on the internet or distributed for free? Having it in this form is the way to go- just buy up the recordings and either store them or destroy them. I know destroying them would be terrible for people who are interested but if the artist is serious about artistic control then go that route. If the artist want to get some money out of it still then just purchase the copies and release them in the future for cash. Not a big deal- its their material anyway. And with these older recordings its not difficult to come to some kind of mutual agreement with a recordings specialist to digitize the music and release it on itunes or what not.

The tapes are already digitized and the music on them is copywritten. The buyer just gets the tapes, not the rights to the music.