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Posted:7th Aug 2004mentioned this a little while back here but am posting more about it now because of a certain princess i know getting as close to nailing it as anyone i've seen.

its a ridiculously hard move to maintain plane control through but if mastered, it would look truly beautiful...

so, the standard bf ww that most people do is based on opposite direction, same-time reels.

one hand spins the btb waistwrap circle followed by a carry which fits it perfectly into the reels.

i adore it; it looks great, feels effortless and has tonnes of gorgeous variations.

but it isn't a real bf ww...

if you take a standard btb waistwrap and reverse the direction that one of the poi is spinning in, you get a butterfly waistwrap.

that move, spun same-time is the killer.

an example (there are 4 basic versions although they come in pairs that are almost identical) of it broken down would be:

1 beat of a bf on right side - left hand btb ww position on right, right hand at right side. [both poi in front wall plane]

1 beat of btb bf. [both poi in behind wall plane]

1 beat of a bf on left side - right hand in btb ww position on left, left hand at left side. [both poi in front wall plane]

simultaneous top and bottom carries back to start position. [both poi in behind wall plane]

spun correctly, hands should remain together for the whole move - there should be no splitting of beats front and back like in the reel based versions.

it seems it can be forced through one cycle okay but maintaining the pattern becomes very tricky, very fast for me.

hope this makes sense to some of youse

if you don't know what a waistwrap is, hit that search button and if you're still not sure whats going on here, check out some threads on butterfly weaves, looking out for discussions on spinning them same-time and btb.

if anyone ever gets this move with completely solid timing and clean planes, could you please make a video with it on fire and send it to me to worship and drool over please?

[that's if me bammy doesn't beat ya to it of course... ]

"i see you at 'dis cafe.i come to 'dis cafe quite a lot myself.they do porridge."- tim westwood

Posted:25th Oct 2004they seem easier to me in split time, and split is how trinity ww's work so i do them that way mostimes.

let's not forget same direction crosswer ww's. i've got really clean quad and quintuple carry (just pivots no turns) crosser waistwraps, now i'm working on turning, while crossed, out of a quad crosser ww without breaking my planes by the 3rd or 4th turn. ouch my back. plus after a while i get dizzy and puke on passers by. what ever happened to our dead guy smiley?

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Posted:30th Oct 2004Maybe it's just me, but it seems like using the btb butterfly weave with body pivots inwards really helps for the plane control needed with the btb bfly ww.

For clarifaction: Begining with the btb bfly weave, left side 1 rotation, pivot body to the left keeping the bfly on the left side (which brings it to the frontal plane) for one rotation, bring to right side for one rotaion, pivot body to the right to bring to frontal plane for 1 rotation, [repeat action from begining].

Obviously this does not help if you are having problems with the carry, but works great for me for plane control, as well it also looks pretty tight.

Posted:14th Jun 2005Ok, the trick to doing this is that the carry happens going in the opposite direction for each hand - so for instance if the left hand carries going left -> right then the right hand does the carry when going from right -> left. This means that you're swapping the leading hand on each side and keeps the move balanced...

Posted:14th Jun 2005Nope, both bottom carries. Consider a normal same direction BTB WW and then take one hand's moves and flip it as if in a mirror perpendicular to the middle of your back so it's doing exactly the same thing, but going the other way. Each hand individually is doing *exactly* the same thing as in a normal WW i.e. 3 circles and a carry.

Posted:14th Jun 2005skimming old stuff like this... somebody remind me again why we spend so much time writing these posts? i wonder if you added it up what it would be. must be months. "hop gave me eye cancer"

oh yeah it's fun

-Such a price the gods exact for song: to become what we sing-Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline and find your liberty.-When the center of the storm does not move, you are in its path.

Posted:14th Jun 2005SO you do a butterfly unside down in front of you then behind the back, then reach with right ahnd so you do one at left hip still in front of you , once more behind back, TTn so that the Butterfly at the right side with left hand reaching behind to make it at the right hip. Right?? It's easy in front of you, BTB you have to TTN once so that the left hand poi can go inside of the right hand. Keeping hands togeather and then allowing room thru armpit is the most fun. peace n goo dluck, I can do it, try to do it upside down behind you so that the poi heads are swinging up at your chin from the reaching BTB hand, very scary, weird planes needed to not kill oneself. Good luck.