Trayvon Martin, Victim or Assailant?

Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old, Florida high school student was shot to death on February 26, 2012. The man who shot him is 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain. Criminal charges against Zimmerman have yet to come as most of the country sits in outrage. Thousands of protestors and over a million signatures on a petition are imploring the city of Sanford, Florida for justice.
The exact story has not been released to the public. What has been confirmed;
Trayvon Martin was unarmed, wearing a hoodie, carrying a bag of Skittles in his pocket and carrying a can of iced tea in his hand. George Zimmerman made a call to 911 to report a suspicious person walking through the gated community that he appointed himself to watch.
Within 2 minutes after that call, Trayvon Martin lies dead in the courtyard with a bullet in his chest, seconds before law enforcement arrived. George Zimmerman was taken into custody for questioning, later released unscathed, un-indicted and is living as a free man under the guise of the “Stand Your Ground Law” of the state of Florida.

Stand Your Ground Law as defined by Wikipedia.com

A stand-your-ground law states that a person may use deadly force in self-defense when there is reasonable belief of a threat, without an obligation to retreat first. In some cases, a person may use deadly force in public areas without a duty to retreat. Under these legal concepts, a person is justified in using deadly force in certain situations and the “stand your ground” law would be a defense or immunity to criminal charges and civil suit. The difference between immunity and a defense is that an immunity bars suit, charges, detention and arrest. A defense permits a plaintiff or the state to seek civil damages or a criminal conviction. More than half of the states in the United States have adopted the Castle doctrine, stating that a person has no duty to retreat when their home is attacked. Some states go a step further, removing the duty of retreat from any location. “Stand Your Ground”, “Line In The Sand” or “No Duty To Retreat” laws thus state that a person has no duty or other requirement to abandon a place in which he has a right to be, or to give up ground to an assailant. Under such laws, there is no duty to retreat from anywhere the defender may legally be.[1] Other restrictions may still exist; when in public, a person must be carrying the firearm in a legal manner, whether concealed or openly.

What if I wake up one morning at 2AM and on a whim decide to pack a gun which I have a license to carry, drive to a random area, get out of my car, walk down a public street in a well known dangerous, crime ridden part of town and shoot anyone who approaches me, is that acceptable? Should I be able to do this without ever having to spend one day in jail? What if I want to do this everyday?
Is this a license to kill?

ABC reports:
The lead homicide investigator in the shooting of unarmed teenager Trayvon Martin recommended that neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman be charged with manslaughter the night of the shooting, multiple sources told ABC News.
But Sanford, Fla., Investigator Chris Serino was instructed to not press charges against Zimmerman because the state attorney’s office headed by Norman Wolfinger determined there wasn’t enough evidence to lead to a conviction, the sources told ABC News.
Wolfinger has since removed himself from the case.

Who is screaming for help? Is it Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman and does it really matter.
In my interpretation of the law, considering it was George Zimmerman who was the pursuer, who drove his car to follow Trayvon Martin, after ignoring law enforcement’s instruction, not to follow him, then got out of his car and approached Trayvon Martin, at that point it is Trayvon Martin who is “Standing His Ground”.
Had Trayvon Martin legally owned a gun and shot George Zimmerman, he would be alive today, but sadly I doubt he would be free.
Trayvon more than likely would be sitting in jail awaiting trial for manslaughter or considering this is the State or Florida, possibly First Degree Murder.

The word “Vigilante” comes to mind as I recall from one of the 911 tapes, Zimmerman says, “these assholes always get away”. I think there’s another asshole who got away.
Sanford Police Department should revaluate this case and seek to indict George Zimmerman so the public has a chance to learn the truth of what happened that rainy evening at about 7:30pm. If he is found guilty in a court of law, George Zimmerman should face the consequences like a man just like the thousands of other young men who have made bad decisions. He’ll survive just like his peers in prison.

Thanks so much for sending this DeLaney,
I don’t think that I would have seen it if you hadn’t.
What a gift!
Sabrina Fulton will never know the impact of love that message means.
Mother’s Day is the HARDEST day of the year when you’ve lost a child.

My son loved every occassion and “just because” to buy a special card for
everyone in his life.
He had bought some before he died, one of the cards that he had bought me
was a real treasure and I treasure more than anything. It said “If you don’t believe in angels, then you haven’t met my Mom.”

I say that to every Mother out there.
To your kids, you all are angels.
Love you all,
Loly

Dailybeast reported two of Zimmerman’s friends told them about the get together last December. When I read that, I wondered why he was celebrating his graduation in December, when I knew that reports elsewhere stated that the school had withdrawn him before he finished the courses needed for a criminal justice associates degree.

So, if Reuters reported accurately, it all makes sense – he had the celebration in December because the school let him ‘participate in a school graduation ceremony, despite being a course credit shy of his associate’s degree in criminal justice’.

Latimes reported Kim Cannaday speaking for the Seminole County sheriff’s office told the Sentinel that ZImmerman attended a four-month law enforcement program given by the sheriff’s office in 2008.

In his application for the course, Zimmerman wrote “I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard and I hope to one day become one’.

That statement ““I hold law enforcement officers in the highest regard and I hope to one day become one” actually came from GZ’s application to a Citizen Police Academy not Seminole County sheriff’s office as LA Times reported. That’s incorrect.
The Citizen Police Academy trains for civilian policing and I’m not even sure he attended. I just read it off of his application that in a link Omar provided for us.
That’s exactly what Omar and I were discussing… All of the exaggerated half truths coming from news reports.
At this point there’s so much out there that’s incorrect or half way right, I think we should stick to what we know. LA Times wants to sell advertising, that’s a fact.

I’ve not seen an factual document saying he wanted to be a judge and blah blah blah. So for now lets just stick to what we can prove by documentation.
Its a long long way till trial.
TIA

Yes, it really is unfortunate that we have to dig through multiple ‘news reports’ to find the facts. I catch so many differences – often they’re small, which makes it seem the writers are just careless or trying to avoid plagiarism when they copy and paste.

That may account for ‘Citizen Police Academy’ becoming ‘Seminole County Sheriff’s office training’ or vice-versa.

Just did a search for ‘Citizens Police Academy’ and found one here in Pittsburgh – 3 hours a week for 15 weeks. Sounds like something that a person pursuing a criminal justice degree might be interested in. My nephew and my friend’s son both have CJ degrees – one a bachelor’s but he’s working in at a bookstore and one an associates, but he’s working as a farm store manager.

Delaney,
It looks like the Citizens Academy is different than the official “Learn to be a real cop academy” for Seminole County. That was my point.
Now I also asked the question if GZ ever applied for the “Seminole Co. Real Cop Academy ”
Do you know if ever applied for that academy too?
I don’t think we’ve seen the application for that one but maybe we won’t because its the REAL police academy.

There is a difference. I believe the Citizens Academy is sponsored by Seminole county for citizens who want to help LE.
Does that make sense?

Yes and I agree, GZ clearly states he wanted to be a LEO in his application. So yes, I’d say it’s factual he wanted to be a cop.
He wrote it.

JB, makes total sense! (: A friend of my sister’s is an ‘auxiliary police’ volunteer in her small town. He marches in parades, listens to scanners.

‘Citizen’s Academy’ level of training may be the level of information or training the auxiliary police receive.

I haven’t read or heard anything about him applying for training to work as a police officer. Here in PA, people go to what we call ‘police academy’ after they are hired as local police or state troopers.

The first paragraph of the Seminole Sheriff’s Web site page for the Community Law Enforcement Academy reads:

“This academy is not for law enforcement certification. It is offered for educational purposes only. There is no guarantee of employment within the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office upon completion of this course.”

The Seminole Sheriff’s program is free, and anyone living in Seminole or surrounding counties who is at least 19, has a drivers license or other government ID, has not been convicted of a crime, discloses arrests/convictions can apply.

The students can ‘drive golf carts wearing fatal vision goggles’ and participate in ride-a-longs with a uniformed Deputy Sheriff, fire Sheriff’s Office weapons at the gun range, and drive a patrol car in similar conditions that Deputies are trained in.

Sounds like a fun course! And it’s free, so I’ll bet they’re swamped with people who want to take the course.

My first thought about not finding any reports on Zimmerman actually attending was that he must have been turned down. Now that I’ve read the requirements, I’m left wondering again. If he’s never been convicted, then it seems he meets the course eligibility requirements.

OS reported that they didn’t have any information about him attending or completing the course, Latimes talked to Kim Cannaday., but didn’t report about his attendance or completion, either.

If he didn’t attend, maybe it was because the class was filled, he had a schedule conflict, or just changed his mind.

I recall reading something about him having a previous DUI/Drunk Driving (different terms may have been used for the offense), so maybe his driver’s license had been revoked when he applied.

Definitely, Lolypop. I saw a video where a news crew filmed the response of two guys who do neighborhood watch. They never patrol alone – always at least two in their well marked car, and they never get out of the car.

DeLaney,
You asked if George Zimmerman had any criminal records,
at this point, I really don’t know, myself.
I read that he did and if I’m not mistaken it is documented.
Thanks for the links!

I’m guessing that everything we read, isn’t true or that everything we
heard was a iie Even the 911 calls from Zimmerman.
But, for the most part it his him on the 911 tape and no one can deny that.
Trouble is the family had to come out and ask for the truth.
In this country, that shouldn’t happen.

I realize this case is far from over, but everyone has a thought or an
opinion and nothing wrong with that.
The one thing I can’t get past is him telling the 911 dispatcher that these
assholes always get away???? Away with what???

I wish the 911 dispatcher would have asked that question.
I think the 911 dispatcher should have said what?
What is he doing right now to get away with other than looking suspicious.

As far as aspiring, Omar asked for a link.
There are several and also he aspired to be a judge
Those are things his friends have said.
Trayvon was aspiring to be a pilot.

The thing about aspiring is that age 17 and 18, George and Trayvon were probably like all of us aspiring to be something.

I aspire to learn more about the laws and many other things that I didn’t care
about in my teens. I just wanted to have fun. : )

Catching up and wanted to post before I forgot: Mothers Day hug LolyPop 🙂

on the Citizens Academy. We recently in my town, I guess about 1 1/2 yr now, they have a citizen Academy type thing. Where you do ride alongs and have classes at the PD, you have to live or work in our town and pass a background check, I forget how long with out mis charges. Its purpose is to make citizens aware of what the PD is doing and give insight to how they go about their jobs. I think they do the classes on like a Tues night. I forget how many spaces they have for each session. I know 3 who have been thru it and each said they came away with a whole diff prospective and appreciation for what the PD do. I am unsure what it is like in other cities tho. OK back to catching up 🙂

Hahaaaaaaaaaaaa Mimi,
You’re just having way too much fun with this!! LOL

We do around here too! : )
You would be surprised at the humorous cards and comments I’m always getting!
I don’t now why!! lol
Some way or another Hallmark has my number too! : )
But, the laughs are worth it,
NOT the real thing though, I don’t remember laughing then. : /

As far as riding in the front, I’ll pass!
ONCE is enough!
I now what the back and front look like. LOL
You should try the back seat! LMAO!
HaHaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Take a picture! : )

The O’Mara Law Group received discovery regarding the George Zimmerman case just after 5:00 PM on Monday, May 14. The discovery package included 67 compact discs and numerous hardcopy documents, including the State’s Discovery Exhibit and Demand for Reciprocal Discovery. The discovery also includes witness statements, 911 calls, non-emergency calls, photos, video, medical records, and more. Mr. O’Mara and staff will now begin the process of examining the information that has been provided. Please remember and understand that it is inappropriate for us to comment on particular pieces of evidence.http://gzlegalcase.com/index.php/press-releases/18-defense-receives-discovery-for-george-zimmerman-case

Most names were redacted from the document, but six civilian witnesses were listed: Sybrina Fulton and Tracy Martin — parents of the alleged victim, Trayvon Martin — as well as Trayvon’s brother, Jahvarius Fulton; Zimmerman’s neighbor, Frank Taaffe; his friend, Joe Oliver; and his father, Robert Zimmerman.

The document listed 18 Sanford police officers as primary witnesses, including lead Investigator Chris Serino. Corey’s office also turned over five reports prepared by him, as well as written reports prepared by four other Sanford officers.

According to the documents, prosecutors also have new video evidence from the night of the shooting — both from the 7-Eleven store where Trayvon purchased Skittles and Arizona iced tea, and from the clubhouse of Retreat at Twin Lakes, the apartment complex where the teen was killed.

Other video evidence, which shows Zimmerman being taken into Sanford Police Department headquarters after the shooting, has already been made public. Crime scene photos of both Zimmerman and the teen are also listed in the documents filed Monday.

The list includes 56 audio-recorded statements. One witness, identified as W6, one of the 911 callers, gave four statements to authorities about the shooting, two to Sanford police, one to FDLE and one to the prosecution’s lead trial attorney, Bernie de la Rionda.

Another witness, W8, gave two statements, one to Benjamin Crump, an attorney for Trayvon’s family, and one to de la Rionda.

Other primary witnesses include four FDLE investigators and three investigators from the office of state attorney Norm Wolfinger plus two from Corey’s office, including Dale Gilbreath, who hand-delivered the motion to Seminole County clerks about 20 minutes before their doors closed for the day Monday.

Five fire-rescue personnel are listed as secondary witnesses. So are a fingerprints expert with Sanford police, and the following FDLE experts: a firearms specialist, DNA expert, trace evidence expert and fingerprints expert.

Also listed as secondary witnesses are a New Jersey forensics expert and two employees with the Volusia County medical examiner’s office.

There was no confirmation either that O’Mara had received the evidence or had filed his motion as the Seminole County clerk’s office preparted to close about 4:30 p.m.

What’s at stake now is all the evidence police and prosecutors have compiled against Zimmerman, the 28-year-old Sanford man charged with killing Trayvon Martin, an unarmed, black 17-year-old in what has become one of the most racially-charged criminal cases in the country.

If O’Mara or the prosecution, as expected, seek to block public release of all or part of that evidence, lawyers for the Orlando Sentinel, The New York Times, NBC, CBS, CNN and more than a half dozen other news organizations are expected to weigh in and try to prevent that.

Unbelievable!
The FBI is considering charging GZ with a hate crime. If convicted, he could face the death penalty. HMM..
Total overkill! This case went from GZ walking out of the police station unscathed & a free man to this. This doesn’t seem right to me. Similar to the Anthony case, he’s being over-indicted.
Maybe GZ will walk? Will that make me happy? No.

Yep, Mimi….I the general concensus is that W8 is DeeDee. Strangely absent, though, is the “phone record” (you remember, the one that didn’t show WHICH of the four phones on the account it was for? That copied and pasted compilation from the online “acct” info.) I haven’t seen that anywhere…..NOR have I seen DeeDee’s phone records.

Can’t WAIT til names have been redacted and documents are public.’

JB…DeeDee is the alleged “girlfriend” who was talking with Trayvon and “heard someone fall to the ground” on the night of the shooting. The very same girlfriend who didn’t come forward, make mention of, nor tweet about TM …except for a brief rip tweet. The one that the dad and Crump tracked down 2 1/2 weeks after the shooting. The one that Julianson Communications, Crump and the media madhouse first claimed was so devastated that she couldn’t attend the funeral because she was “in the hospital” AND YET was tweeting about going to McDonalds and getting her hair done on the day of the funeral. The one the media has conveniently just forgotten about lately. That’s DeeDee. The hearsay witness who was most likely, IMO, coached by Crump AFTER they say her phone number on the account 2 1/2 weeks after the fact. The very one who never called a family member of Trayvon’s to see how he was or why she hadn’t heard back from him after talking to him while he was “so scared”……for 3 weeks. That one.

Can’t wait to see what the actual phone records reveal, and I can NOT wait to see how O’Mara crosses this one…..IF they even bother to put her on the stand.

Her name is Dee Dee?
In the very beginning this is exactly what I heard.
Trayvon was talking with his girlfriend. Why doubt that?
He had his phone.

Mimi If they wanted to they could get rid of any phone calls on Trayvons phone.
I can’t see any reason to come down on her case.
She lost a friend.

Anything she able to do during that time is a gift from God.
I froze up when my son died. I thought I couldn’t get my hair cut and my nails done.
I DID!!!

By myself. My son used to go shopping with me, I wondered how I could even get in the car.
I was like in a bubble that God gives us to make it through the hardest time of your
life. Every now and then when some days seem so hard, there’s a denial or a bubble that we talk about that we’re in and it protects us.

Also, my sweet doctor told me NO you won’t die. You will grieve like in waves. Some times those waves will almost knock you down, but there will come a calm. She was so helfpul.
Those waves still come. Some are harder than others, but I know I will make it through because she told me I would and she was right.

This story is tragic in every way and for the people to turn against even his girlfriend and how she will do right now or in time to come is unbelievable.Don’t judge them too hard for the way they do in the begining or any time after.

I thought I could not live, laugh or ever be myself again and now when I think of the future without him, I get overwhelmed with grief and anxiety
One day they will get almost sick with grief, if they make it through that, the next day,
you may laugh.
Life is a complete change for them, no matter how you feel about this case.

So DeeDee will most likely be a questionable witness. If she is lying then it will show in the phone records, right? If her phone records and TM’s phone records match, that’ll be that.
Thats pretty easy to prove or disprove. I wonder if the phone records will be released??

Loly, If anyone can relate to the pain of losing a child, I know you can. God bless you.
I know everyone grieves differently too. When my Mother died, I was angry. It took a long time for me to actually allow myself to feel the pain of my lost.
I’m so happy you had that wonderful doctor to help you thru it. She was Godsend, 4 sure. Honestly, I doubt if the Martins have grieved yet. That probably won’t happen until after the trial.

As for everyone doubting everything that was initially released, I think its because of the inaccuracies that media first released.
So now that the “real” evidence like court documents are beginning to surface…I think we should look at this case with new eyes and be patient.
IMO, the outcome will be the same but at least we’ll be closer to learning the truth.

I don’t doubt that he talked to someone whose real name is Daiasha, who goes by DeeDee. I just doubt the media story surrounding this particular incident. The evidence will prove or disprove it. The original story surrounding this has already been dismantled. My point, Loly, isn’t whether or not he spoke to this girl on the phone. MY POINT is that thier original story has holes the size of texas in it. THAT is my point. I get that grieving parents look for, and deserve, these little gifts from God. I don’t dispute that. However, I do dispute EVERY BIT of media spin that has twisted this story so far that it’s not going to be recognizable until I can see PROOF. Period. Nothing more. Nothing less.

And with all due respect, the justice system IS NOT NOW, nor WAS IT EVER intended to alleviate the grief of grieving parents. It was established to bring a JUST end to a case. While I feel for the parents and I do have sympathy for their loss…..I just do NOT understand why people are so quick to say that the “girlfriend” (who btw had another boyfriend who wasn’t TM) is doing what’s right. How do we know that???? Because the media said so??? Thanks, but I’ll wait for proof because the fact is…..maybe she did do something right and is just being misjudged….or maybe she isn’t as significant as crump and the spinners originally made her out to be. The media said there was a heart shaped sticker on duct tape that was found wrapped around little Caylee’s skull, too. That didn’t make it true.

Without having seen the phone records and without having heard her sworn testimony….I’m not gullible enough to believe the media on this one. NOT when I have seen her twitter account going back to before Feb 26th all the way up through mid March when Crump got a hold of her. I’ll just wait to hear the explanation. And while it would be nice to think that she is just doing the right thing, I can NOT forget that the NBPP offered a bounty of 10K to anyone who got the goods on Zimmerman (or GOT Zimmerman). Ironically…..it was DeeDee’s “testimony” as given to Crump that led to the arrest, and then….et voila…..after some folks around the www started flashing screen shots that absolutely blew Crump’s story of devastated girlfriend out of the water, the media and team skittles backed off of that story and we haven’t really heard a word about DeeDee since.

I’m sorry you lost your son, Loly. I really, really am. Losing a child is a pain and loss that a parent never gets over. My grandma has lost 3 and still mourns them. I’m not really any more cold hearted or NON-understanding in this case than I was when Caylee lost her life. It’s just that, people need to understand that in order for our justice system to work and in order for people to get a FAIR trial (even people who are truly guilty deserve a FAIR trial)….then people need to wake up and realize that the liklihood of that happening goes WAY down if the media thinks a story “has legs” (in the words of Jose Baez). Truth matters little to the media. The general public knows next to nothing about the way the system is supposed to work. Whether or not Zimmerman is guilty of some crime is for the courts to decide…..NOT the media. People can hold opinions, and we see how difficult media half-truths and twisting makes finding an unbiased jury. Is it possible? It was for Casey….but how has the reaction of the masses toward those jurors affected potential jurors in other high profile cases? I hope someone who is truly innocent doesn’t have to find out the hard way by paying an ultimate price….but it will happen.

And even if (and that’s a big, fat IF) Zimmerman is guilty of some crime as defined by law…..what in the HELL is wrong with people who aren’t realizng that HIS ENTIRE FAMILY will now pay the price. They are IN HIDING because of this……EVEN THOUGH THEY WERE NOT THERE WHEN IT HAPPENED AND WERE NOT PARTIES TO ANY CRIMES!!!!??????

Go ahead and form your opinions. That’s your right. I respect that right. But just like I said in the Casey Anthony circus of a trial……this goes WAY beyond one victim and one accused. This goes to the VERY HEART of the Constituion.

Let’s just do away with evidence, proof and trials. Let’s just take a damned popularity vote and then lynch the bastard according to popular opinion.

So true Omar,
That why I try to ignore the media. I get a fact or two out of an article and then I move on.
When I hear about all of this hearsay making the news on the web, thats where I get lost in this Humongous mess of a case.
I don’t care what DeeDee is doing right now. All I need to know from DeeDee is was she on the phone with TM and what did TM say.
What did the witnesses see?
What did the witnesses hear?
The author of the article’s opinion means nothing to me.
Just the fax Maam.
Omar, more than likely if I were reading what others are saying about this case, it probably would annoy me to death, even though from (what little I do know) I still feel GZ is at fault and that’s just my opinion as of today.

Omar said;
“Let’s just do away with evidence, proof and trials. Let’s just take a damned popularity vote and then lynch the bastard according to popular opinion.”
Thats the exact stupidity we saw on internet during the Anthony case and now its repeated again. When I read idiotic garbage coming from either side, it gets my blood boiling.

I understood the outrage before GZ was arrested but now that the justice system is at work. I’m happy.

You see Delaney,
Its that kind of ignorance that I despise. GZ is going to trial. GZ will learn his fate from his peers (jurors).
All I can say is that there are idiots on both sides of this case.
Those people who made the TShirts have only one reason for that. They don’t give a rat’s patootie about Trayvon or George. All they care about is money. Bottom line.
It ain’t personal.

Hi, JB – you’re right – they just don’t care. Crump said the twitter account was made up. If true, that means there are manipulative people who set out to convince others that Trayvon Martin was a gang-banger/thug character.

Thank you for that vast insight, Delaney. I wasn’t aware of the fact that something with the word “conservative” in the name would be biased. But all blogs are biased to some extent, Delaney. That’s why the anti-casey crowds flocked to the OS, the HinkeyMeter, CayleeDaily and those of us who found that there wasn’t evidence to convict came here.

And I don’t think anyone disagrees that the hoodies with range targets were tasteless and raceless. Does one kind justify the other? I was under the impression that it didn’t. Nevertheless…..I respect your right to hold your opinion…..so please respect not only my right to hold my, but my ability to make reasoned conclusions based on my knowledge base, prejudices and preferences…..in the exact same way that you expect others to respect yours based on the same things.

I’m done arguing about this here. JB….I love and respect you….but I’m out. Keep in touch via email. I see that there are 3 people who regularly comment about this case. The rest of us chime in here and there. But just like I didn’t comment at the OS or Hinky during Casey, I think it’s best if I don’t comment about TM here. That way, it can remain a one sided repetiton of media “facts” ad nauseum.

OMAR,
Actually, I pay very little to the media and I don’t visit other blogs.
The first I heard of this like I said war March 9.
I was just surprised that we hadn’t heard from anyone. Where was the media
then?

BTW, that was before any marches of any kind.
I’m not a sheep and I don’t just follow. Like you, I just have an opinion right now.
That’s all it is.

I don’t know where you get your news, but I’m not worried about that
Because the only thing I ever heard about the girlfriend was in the beginning
I never even heard that she had another boyfriend, but what’s wrong with that?.
There will be a fair trial. I haven’t been anywhere or heard anything but what I heard
in the beginning and what I read here.
I know you can’t go by that, you have to hear it all and I can do that.

I wasn’t even saying whether or not Zimmerman was guilty or not.
I was talking about grief and how at first or during any time it can effect you.

You brought up the story about Trayvons girlfriend. They are under a tthreat just as the Zimmerman family. I’m sure she can’t say anything and I don’t know if she can go out in public.

I’ve said that both families lives will be changed forever and it’s tragic.
There wasn’t going to be a trial. Some time we have to fight for justice.

Nothing ‘bad’ about a teenage girl having more than one boyfriend. I would rather teens have multiple boy/girl friends rather than be serious about just one.

Same goes for ‘gold grills’. Wearing them doesn’t make a person a thug anymore than having a tattoo makes a person a biker. Many entertainers wear diamond studded or gold grills, and we all know that kids emulate entertainers.

I’ve seen my sister wear workout pants and matching hoodie jacket with the hood up! She’s been wearing them for years. I have a picture of her at a Christmas light show last December, and she has the hood up. Her toddler grand-daughter is wearing a hoodie, too.

So, why the big deal about Trayvon Martin wearing a hoodie? They’re in style and have been for years.

“A medical report compiled by the family physician of accused Trayvon Martin murderer George Zimmerman and obtained exclusively by ABC News found that Zimmerman was diagnosed with a “closed fracture” of his nose, a pair of black eyes, two lacerations to the back of his head and a minor back injury the day after he fatally shot Martin during an alleged altercation.”

Delaney,
I really dont care if TM wanted to wear grills and pretend he was a “Bad Ass” or wannabe “Bad ASs” , just like GZ who wanted to be a wannabe Cop?..

Bottom line is this. TM is not innocent and it’ll come out in court. I dont give a rats arse who wears what. Hoodie, grills, pants down their arse. I dont care if GZ went to the police academy and flunked out twice…..

TM I believe made a threat and that is why he is where he is. This case is nothing but a political
ploy. And race will be at center stage. In comes Obama, almighty king to save the day…..So, we’re all here discussing a case that most likely is one big political ploy,,,,,,So, away with the hoodies, grills and pants down the arse and lets get real……The FBI is charging GZ with a hate crime. If anything the hate is projected toward GZ now dont ya think? Now, if they set the standards so high so it’s not reachable, then guess what will happen?
I’ll give you two guesses……

Race will play center stage in Obama’s election campaign and his phony stance on Gay marriage. FBI is charging him with a hate crime for a reason folks and I have a feeling that there’s more of this coming……Sit back and pop some popcorn…..it’s going to be a hell of a ride…..

Something interesting I’ve noticed is that political party affiliation seems to have been made a defining line by some. President Obama is often brought up, which is somewhat understandable, as he did say that if he had a son, that he would look like Trayvon.

A little OT, but in the picture of Trayvon and a girl that JB posted at the top of this page, Trayvon does look very much like a young Barack Obama.

I notice the resemblance in stature, and maybe that photo is one that our president looked at and thought ‘wow, he looks so much like me at that age’.

Seems to me he just made an honest comment about what he thought at that moment. Do USA presidents lose freedom of speech rights?

DEEP BREATH —IN <<<<>>>>>
OK, I do understand that life experiences have a huge impact on how we all see things. Having said that, I dont think it is acceptable to want to judge GZ by his life prior to that fateful moment and not do the same for TM. Ok, going by character, I personally do think that TM was a punk thug. This I am going on the facts that he was suspended for having vandalized at the school, and had in his possession a tool of crime. Also he was in possession of illegal drugs on a school campus. To make an excuse for this behavior is despicable, I too feel such sorrow for TM Family and friends. And I do for GZ and his family and friends. I dont mean to sound or come across as cold, but just because this young man is deceased, what he was and what he did will forever be in his history of life. I also use the tweets that he posted on his account. Has anyone else read them. I do believe they are truly his and If I am not mistaken, and I could be but dont think I am. It was taken down by Mr Chump and has NOT BEEN DENIED it being that of TM. If I were to read some of the stuff this young man had tweeted for the whole world to see on any of my childrens or anyone I knew for that matter, I would be profoundly pissed and ashamed. As I said I do have sorrow for these parents, but I do not feel that he was being treated as if he had done something wrong and was given free reign by his father the night of his death. I could very well be wrong but, the facts in doc will come out and I am a big enough person to say humbly I was wrong, but I do not feel that TM was just an innocent bystander that fateful evening. Hindsight is 20/20. And we can all say we would do this or that, but not can one say what they would do unless were in that position. AND I respectfully say this, that if any one of us were to feel at a precise second that if you felt your or your loved ones life were in danger, that you would be in overdrive survival mode, please dont say you wouldnt.

Also, as far as police telling amb to leave or whatever, I was recently in a bad auto accident. By a twice the limit drunk driver, with no DL and it wasnt his car. I have had multi surgeries and my neck has been fused. I was pinned in the car. EMTs had to get me out thru the passenger side. YES I was injured and they checked me out. I was badly hurting and very shook up and knew I needed medical attention, and I asked the EMT if I had to go with them, NO they said and I just had to sign a form and they said I would not be billed for them responding. My parents came and after we got my veh situated, which was about 2 hrs AFTER the accident, I was taken to the ER. So no I personally seen nothing either way in GZ situation.

I do not know what happened that night nor do I pretend to act as if I do. I do know GZ was legally caring a gun. I know that TM DID NOT live in the complex. TO BE TOTALLY HONEST. THATS ABOUT ALL I CAN TELL YOU I DO KNOW AS A FACT ON THIS ACTUAL CASE. I see so much emotion misplaced here as I did in the Casey Anthony case. I have and will strive to keep an open mind. Possible that TM was a punk thug, who was innocent in his trek out that night. Equally possible he wasnt. Facts will come out. LOL but as seen in the Casey Anthony case, 2 people can look at the same page of info and take something totally diff from it.

I do not have cable. But this case has been on our local news more than I ever saw about Casey or Caylee. Really I didnt see anything other than Caylee was missing and then when she was found “with that duct tape and lil heart sticker” But yes, this has been on the nightly National news channels. And look at what happened there, NBC in their grrrr editing to cause an uproar! and ole ABC is it seems always in the thick of getting “Exclusive” stuff. LOL looks like too many times these folks are getting as duped as what they are trying to do to their audiences! Just my opinion of course.

Mimi, do you have sources for the tweets? Crump says the twitter account screenshots were fake.

Regarding the ‘tool of crime’. I’ve read blogs that claim ‘school officials’ said that he had more than a dozen pieces of jewelry and a screwdriver or ‘tool of crime’. None of those blogs seem credible to me.

Mimi, Trayvon was living there as a house guest. Looks like a large community – I read that there are 264 units. Like Brandy Green, other residents likely had house guests from time to time that Zimmerman didn’t know.

I for the life of me do not understand. How, not only here but else where, LOL EXCEPT FOR prob HLN and InSession (read their fb and have caught a couple times at my parents) but for the most part those of us who Shouted from mountain tops to look at facts and not with emotion in Caseys case, are dealing here with emotion and since I didnt know nothing til Jury selection, maybe it was that way with that case in the beginning too. I just feel the law is the law. We dont have to agree and I damn well dont agree with a lot of them, but ya know thats all we got. Those who stand their ground on the Constitution, its the same Constitution in both cases, and as stupid luck would have it same darn State, so there ya go, same applies. I agree to disagree with whatever your opinion is, whomever you are. Truly have enjoyed the friendships I have formed here and as I said I agree to disagee, so I still luv ya!

Sadly, I honestly believe that this was made a racial issue from the get go. I will hush. LOL if you have read any of my post, you have already heard it. If not, lol you might not agree anyway. In keeping an open mind, I do think it important to seek out the truth and not just take what someone just says as truth. I know from all the hard Sleuthing that was done here, which I still am in awe of, I pray that the same thing is done in this case. If you feel the urge to see justice. LOL as we all know what one calls Justice, doenst mean another will see it that way. Neither of these cases immediately effect me or possible you, but in the big picture being a citizen of the United States of America, it ultimately can.

Delaney, LMAO, it could be possible, but IF and I say IF, that screen shot was forged made up or whatever, I tell you what, there was some mighty mighty good and very deep stuff goin on. LOL go to the screen shots and look at some to f the folks he was tweeting with. I again could be wrong, but I dont think it was fake. I challenge you to check those followers that are STILL OUT ON THE TWITTER WORLD. And ok, someone else very possible could have been tweeting under this young lady persona, but again, I challenge you to read indepth in those accounts. I HAVE. lol and I followed this young lady on twitter from back when it very first was leaked, This was ummm back in Marchish?

Mimi, Trayvon was living there as a house guest. Looks like a large community – I read that there are 264 units. Like Brandy Green, other residents likely had house guests from time to time that Zimmerman didn’t know.
^^^^^^
Delaney, I respectfully disagree with you. Saying TM was LIVING there as a house guest, is just a play on words, IMHO. Are you telling me if I were to come spend the night over the weekend, you would say I was LIVING with you? Yes looks like it is a large gated community, which from reports shows has had a some recent breakins at the time. What I dont understand, from your stance on this, is IF you think GZ is this gung ho about his vol as a Neighborhood watch person, I would think there would be tons of complaints avail for us to view. I so far have seen just the opposite. I am not talking about the number of calls GZ made over a number of YEARS, I am talking about complaints that he has been stalking, profiling other young men in the complex. Please, if you would please, to use your words respectfully, Sources? Maybe you have a credible source?

Mimi, I too am not making a judgement call on this because there is just too little information. No proof that George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin had major character or behavioral flaws.

George has been called a violent racist and Trayvon a thug/gang-banger/drug dealer.

I just say really? Where’s the proof?

For George, there is proof of domestic violence which he and she both committed, but where is the proof of racism? A my space account in which he expresses frustration at people of a particular ethnicity who scratch his vehicle?

For Trayvon, possibly fake twitter accounts and photos of a different person who has the same name?

We picked everything to pieces during the Casey Anthony trial. Why not do the same for this case?

And a comment on the Race Card and President Obama. IMHO, President Obama is not proud of his race, and TM would not have looked like his son, if he had one, as President Obama IS THE FIRST AFRICAN AMERICAN PRESIDENT, BUT HE IS NOT, I REPEAT NOT, THE FIRST BLACK PRESIDENT.

HE IS THE FIRST BIRACIAL PRESIDENT. His Grandfathers sister lives about 8 miles from my front door and she attends some of the same Senior Activities my parents do. Yes we are WHITE Americans. But I do have a biracial GRANDSON who I adore with all my life. As much as I do the other 2 whom 1 is VERY WHITE, and the other is white/Middle Eastern. I see no difference in any one of them. It throughly pisses me off for people of any ethnic background to put that issue in to further themselves. I saw the first interview that Obama and his wife did (prob on youtube) I think was with Barbara W, not sure there tho. BUT he says that society chose him as a black man is why he chose to date black women. I do hate this for the children of a mixed relationship of any sorts. Ok better get off my lil soap box but. If someone gonna be PC, then they need to be telling pc in telling the truth. Again IMHO.

When there were several George Zimmerman sites and Zimmerman made ” the last one”
The Real George Zimmerman, I didn’t question that so if Crump says the twitter account screenshots were fake, why should I not believe him?

Also about the facts being released that GEORGE ZIMMERMAN DID HAVE THE MULTIPLE INJURIES THAT THE PRELIM REPORT STATED, well IMHO that there should be grounds for some sort of UMM SORRY WE WERE WRONG from some of the Media and Chumps, who exploited that GZ didnt have any. Now that is is a proven fact he did, it proved whomever is wrong in their initial opinion of the situation. There are many with the proverbal egg on their face tonight. Just as with Casey Anthony case..

When there were several George Zimmerman sites and Zimmerman made ” the last one”
The Real George Zimmerman, I didn’t question that so if Crump says the twitter account screenshots were fake, why should I not believe him?

Loly, I hope your just being down right silly posting this, 🙂 I feel I know you better than that. you are not that Naive my dear. Do little research on this Chump character.

***
Delaney
May 15, 2012 at 11:36 pm

Mimi, the impression I get is that George was highly motivated to patrol the community in which he lived.

I will respect your impression, actually I havent made much of one on that (impression) but back to my point up thread, if he was this highly motivated, I dont doubt, but I see or have not seen anything that points to him profiling other individuals at all in this community. Highly motivated, most likly possible due to vol to be captain. I also have no doubt he doesnt know all the visitors, but something clearly stood out to GZ that evening, and we dont know yet exactly what it was.

HYPOTHETICALLY, what if it is proven that TM was looking into windows or something suspicious, what then would be your impression of this case then? TIA

DeLaney,
That’s what I can’t understand. A kid visiting the home of his Dad and his
Dad’s girlfriend and Zimmerman calls 911 and says he looks suspicious??
I wonder how many times a 911 dispatcher gets a call that someone looks suspicious
do they go out there. Looks like they would need more than that.
You hear these 911 calls and these people are frantic, they have to calm them down.

Then he says these assholes always get away?
I still ask away with what?
What was he getting away with? They’re going to have to explain to someone what
Trayvon was getting away with.

Mimi, I agree with Obama. Society did choose his race. Never heard anyone say a black/white bi-racial was white.
****
Dear Soul, let me tell you that black/white bi racial DO go as white too. Not all consider themselves black. I know for a fact, the lady who use to live next door she was white and ex husb black. She, and I am SURE many do, used the race card in many ways. The children went to a Magnet school that is supposedly racial balanced. They had “too many black” so she used the same children as “white” on paper, yet when the father got custody of them, he marked their race as BLACK, and being too many racially proportioned, the same lil girl who HAD BEEN GOING TO THE SCHOOL FOR 4 yrs, now because her race was changed, had to change schools. So tell me, was this a racist situation? And if so by whom the white or the black? IMHO, it should not have mattered, this child should have been able to continue at the same school.

Growing pains… Delaney
I like that because we are always growing and learning. It can hurt but
in the end we’re all here to grow together.
I hope to learn more everyday, but I want good for everyone and I know that’s not realistic, but
I still want it. : )
G’night all and sweet dreams! : )
Again, Mimi,
Give the babies a hug for me.

Delaney,
from character, IMO TM was a punk thug BEFORE he died. I know not yet why he died, FACT wise. He was suspended from school as ref before for vandalizing school property, which they have on video. He had a tool of crime, screwdrivers are not allowed in backpacks. And he also had a baggy that had contained an illegal substance on school property. These are against the rules and he did not care to follow the rules. Why are you making excuses for him. Because he is deceased? So your saying if for some reason he had harmed someone, he would still be an innocent lil 17 yr old.
I am not sure if your calling me a closet racist what, but I will tell you I am not Closet anything.

And your comment, @ 12:32, OMG is all I can say with out saying something that might offend you. To say she only claimed her child was white on paper, HER CHILDREN are 1/2 white and 1/2 black. You say you would prob do the same thing. I am not going to apologize for saying this tho, I DO NOT FEEL ANYONE IS BETTER THAN THE NEXT PERSON DUE TO THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN. NOR DO I FEEL A CHILD IS A DIFF CHILD DEPENDING UPON WHAT RACE YOU MARK ON A PIECE OF PAPER. I truly do not understand where you are coming from saying your entitled to something due to what race you are. I can only imagine how messed up these children will be being taught this as a small child. IMO that is breeding a racist and a biggot. I truly pray that I have misunderstood you. Because some of your posts are coming across as being racist. IMHO

Lolypop @ 12:19; you’ve mentioned that a few times, and I want you to know that I ask the same question when I hear the audio.

I had a neighbor who kept a handgun in her laundry basket when she hung clothes outside to dry. My dog had a habit of poking her head through the side of our panel fence where the fence door meets the post.

My neighbor’s adult son told me that his mom kept the handgun in her laundry basket because she felt afraid when my dog put her head through the fence and barked.

I talked to her and told her that if my dog ever ran towards her it would be because she wanted to greet her. Her son knew my dog, and told his mom that she was friendly and wouldn’t hurt her, but it took awhile to convince her that my dog was not mean.

The reason she was so afraid? Profiling.

My dog was a Rottweiler.

Turns out, my neighbor knew people who bred Pit Bull dogs for fighting, and she thought that my dog was bred to fight.

My neighbor was fearful of thunderstorms, too – she would hide in her bedroom.

I’m glad that I found out she was so fearful of my dog and that we were able to convince her that my dog was nothing like the Pit Bull dogs bred to fight that she knew of.

I think of her and imagine how fearful she must have been of my dog, who loved to run up to everyone she saw and get her head pet. If my dog had run to my neighbor, she would have been shot.

Mimi, until people are treated the same, regardless of the color of their skin, there will be tensions. I guess it shouldn’t surprise us that race issues are at the forefront with Obama as president.

Most see him as black. Not bi-racial – just black.
*********
I am confused Delaney, here you state they should be treated the same regardless of color of skin, yet up thread, you would write a diff race on a paper to get a child into a “better:” school.

I do think it should surprise us that OBAMA should be in anyway shape for or fashion connected to THIS or really any case.

Mimi, I agree that he is bi-racial. We know that because we know who his parents are. Walking down the street, we say this person is black and that person is white because all we know is the color of their skin.

Delaney, Yep I guess that pretty much sums it up what I would call someone whom did these things, lest not forget that he vandalized school property too. But that doesnt have 1 darn thing to do with race. 🙂

Hmmm just because I googled definition of thug, and I cant believe what came up as a SONG! Makes me sick!

Mimi, I agree that he is bi-racial. We know that because we know who his parents are. Walking down the street, we say this person is black and that person is white because all we know is the color of their skin.
*******
EXACTLY, thats is why GZ said TM is Black, he was asked by the dispatcher. Other than that I dont see why people are trying to say GZ was racist.

*****
Mimi, how does that work out for the TAN MOM?!

LOL X14 WOW now that is a messed up chick ~~ thats all I gonna say. One time I saw her, and she looked like she had motor oiled burned on her face. Full Body quiver going here 🙂 She said she was a Sexy Momma !

I thought we all agreed that this is no longer a race issue. Zimmerman was indicted. Isn’t that what we all thought should have happened? We want the truth to unfold at trial not in the media and not from talk on the street.

This case is getting waaaay off base as of late.

Granted, I understand WHY it became a race issue but it isn’t anymore. So be it.
It’s not about GZ being a “whatever” or TM being a “whatever”, it’s about a homicide.

I’d like to do an experiment.
Let;s leave race out of it. Let’s look at this case as we now know it.

It’s about a Neighborhood Watch Captain who after reporting a suspicious person to a 911 operator somehow killed this person within minutes after the call.

Ok, I know. I have to work on the wording but let’s start from there.
I’d like to discuss this case without mentioning race if that’s okay with everybody.

I wasn’t here before August,
you said ” that y’all picked everything to pieces during the Casey Anthony
trial. Why not do the same for this case????”
That’s a good question!!!

I remember you were already here and many others.
Many great comments and people discussing the same thing.
I was the new kid on the block. : )
Really I can understand seeing two different sides or three or four.
That’s why we have trials.

Usually 12 citizens. I’m sure going in some may have already made their mind up,
but that’s why we have them.
Minds do change.

I haven’t taken time to post in this thread because I don’t have anything to add until, perhaps, after some read documents come out that might bring some thoughts I will want to share. But, I must say that I hate to see you withhold, Omar, because you are one that helped me to be more objective and sort out fact from fiction, thus far. While I still don’t know for sure about the girlfriend, or who attacked who first, I do know that this was turned into a circus by the mother and greedy attorney. Did you know she is traveling abroad too? Perhaps this is how she needs to grieve and that is just fine, if so. But she is the one that started the race fraud, no doubt, with the help of her attorney, carried forward by the civil rights groups. This is the Anthony case all over again. I just hope O’mara is as good as the Anthony team so he gets a fair trial.

Last comment here….but I wanted to address Zuben…..your insight has also helped me, and I so appreciate your thoughtfulness. Your comment over in the Hinky thread made me want to stand and cheer.

The thing about me is I am about facts……but when a conversation boils down to mere assertion of opinions, then one must come to the realization that each person is entitled to believe as they choose, and it is outside of my right to try to sway someone’s opinion simply because it doesn’t match mine.

As you know, each of us has our own belief system. I’ve been very clear about mine without any intention of forcing it down someone’s throat. I am who I am. I don’t try to offend, but I truly don’t care if who I am offends someone. That’s on them…not me.

Nevertheless…..I have done lots of research at court sites, domain sites, political sites, old news sites, etc. YET, the assertion is made that my opinions arise due to my conservative beliefs. Funny, isn’t it, how we all held our own spectrum of political leanings of beliefs during the Anthony trial, and it never affected the fact that we reached the same conclusion…..media hype drove public sentiment and the truth was something that had to be dug for. We connected the dots many times and followed winding roads, and yet arrived at the same conclusion.

Yet in this instance…..if we find a bit of research on a site that happens to be populated by a bunch of conservatives, then that MUST mean all the research there (backed up by documents, links, pre-shooting articles showing connections of parties involved, IP addresses, caches, etc), must ALL be biased and therefore not worthy of discussion.

Likewise, if we disagree with politicians thrusting themselves into this case (in much the same way we disagreed with pam bondi’s thrusting herself into the Anthony case), then we must be stifflers of free speech and racists.

Intelligent discourse can NOT be carried out when there are such knee jerk reactions and accusations. I do not ever just take someone’s word for something. I want to see why they came to that conclusion or assertion. I want to know I’m basing a thought, feeling, idea or belief in fact.

There are some FACTS in this case that are undeniable as far as connections go, political agendas (YES, I have seen the documents….and they were NOT on a blog site thank you very much…because I won’t read any site that doesn’t back up its assertions with fact). The proof is always in the pudding and the pudding in the tasting, as Jose Baez said. Time WILL tell. No, we haven’t seen witness statements in writing yet…..but we’ve seen interviews with the principles. We’ve noticed changing stories. We’ve unearthed the spin and already have noticed that the media narrative was not based in FACT, but in spin intended to cause extreme emotional reaction.

And when you come to a point where people arge with things like, “well O’mara said that GZ’s myspace page was a fake”, then I know it’s time to take my toys and leave the sand box. The fact is, O”Mara never said the site was a fake, NOR did he say that he factually knew that GZ did not make the comments about Mexicans on there. What he DID say was that GZ DID create the myspace account in 2005 (or 2008…I don’t remember without going back to O’Mara’s GZ website) and that shortly after it’s creation, the account was hacked (common….just happened to me AGAIN), and because of that, GZ abandoned the site. So you see how some can take FACTS, listen to HALF of them and then twist them to try to support their own arguments??

I don’t play that way. But I want you to know that my love for the old timers here has not diminished one iota. My respect for you all has not waned. I just can add nothing to a conversation that is fueled by illogical arguments of half-truths and assumptions. Time will tell what the truth is. There’s no need for me to defend a man I don’t know. There’s no need for me to argue with those who keep INSISTING that TM was an innocent kid, minding his own business and just walking home. That is not FACT. That is the story crump sold. Maybe it’s true and maybe it isn’t. We will not KNOW that until we are privileged enough to read all of the witness statements……and even THEN, we can not be certain until opposing counsel has the opportunity to cross examine the witnesses in open court, because what we SHOULD have learned through the Anthony trial is that witnesses sometimes have an agenda, or are lying, or are not dependable or can be contradicted. So therefore, for me to participate in a conversation with people who INSIST that they know things that they do not would just make me a fool.

So….really, I’m done with this. I have personal contact with a few from this site, Zuben, and would welcome you to freely contact me via email, IM or by any other means any time you want. I’d love to stay in touch. AND…..if a new case or issue comes along that isn’t so emotionally fueled, I’ll drop in again and bring my sarcastic and heated wit and nonsensical humor into the forray once again.

Oh…and just one more thing….when the biggest LIBERAL I know of comes out and publically denounces the Special Prosecutor’s behavior and tactics in this case and asserts that she and her cohorts should be slapped with criminal charges, then I fail to see how this issue is devided along political lines.

Me and Alan Dershowitz would agree on next to nothing politically….but my conservative self whole-heartedly agrees with his far left liberal self on that.

Omar @ 4:16 – So, the link you just posted (which calls itself “The Online Magazine with Liberal coverage of crime-related political and injustice news”) thinks that the state’s case against GZ has more holes in it than swiss cheese. I guess it’s not just the “conservative” websites that are seeing this as the farce it is. Interesting. Thanks.

Omar, I can’t claim a party or a political leaning. All I want is a fair and happy life with the rights we all should have as human beings. But I agree with you, neither Republican nor Democrat, liberal or conservative, Christian or Jew, black, white or any other color and hue of skin has a monopoly on the truth. I never completely believe anything I don’t see for myself, documents or hearing it straight from the horses mouth. I usually believe what I see in quotes but even then, know that it may have to be retracted or may be quoting incorrectly like Belich did that time. It is too easy to repeat facts peppered with opinion, leaving out a key word or other things that expose human bias.

Here is something that is bothering me and maybe somebody here can help me understand. The only case pending at the moment is a criminal case of the State of Florida vs. George Zimmerman. As yet, there are no civil suits filed, but that all will depend on what happens in the criminal case. Am I correct so far?

How can these attorneys for Martin’s parents accuse O’Mara of leaking this information and question the validity of the information in a case that they are not directly involved in? Granted, they may be looking out for the best interest of their clients, but this, I think, goes a little beyond that. Does the judge have the authority to step in and put a gag order on them and threaten them with a contempt of court citation?

The questions they raise (Did O’Mara leak the report? Did GZ pay-off the Doc to write up phony injuries?) are all over places like HuffPo, but that is not the same as these (now) high-profile lawyers making public statements, which happen to be released just in time to be included in the evening news.

If I shoot and kill somebody in self defense, then the cost of having an emergency room physician document my injuries would be money well spent.

Zimmerman only had one more criminal justice course to complete, and he grew up in a family where both parents worked in the criminal field, so its hard for me to believe that he wouldn’t understand the importance of a physician immediately documenting injuries.

Even I know that if I shoot a person dead in self defense, then I’d better get a ER physician to document my injuries ASAP.

Sorry, but waiting to see a private physician the next day when he could have been seen by an ER physician immediately naturally leads to more questions.

Zuben – I do not understand why the Martin attorney is allowed to be making a fuss about any of this. They are not major players in this part of the case, even though they think they should be. You are right, they should sit back and let the prosecutor do what they think needs to be done. This is between the state and GZ’s attorney. The attorney for the Martin family will get their turn if things go their way in the criminal trial.

Delaney – Are you serious? You are questioning the credibility of the family physician? You are suggesting that GZ’s injuries may have occurred sometime after the shooting but before he went to the doctor the next day? That GZ may have inflicted the injuries upon himself or had someone cause the injuries to him? Is that really what you are suggesting?

Delaney – The police report from the night of the shooting states that GZ was bleeding from the back of the head and his nose. It also states that GZ was treated at the scene by Sanford Fire Department. There is at least one photo taken at the scene showing that GZ was bleeding from the back of the head. The metadata from the photo shows that it was taken about 3 minutes after the shooting occurred.

After knowing all that, you still question the integrity of the family physician and suggest that the injuries happened after GZ left the scene of the shooting and before he went to the family doctor. You do realize that what the doctor wrote pretty much just confirms what is in the police report which we already knew weeks ago.

Regarding the cell phone image ‘exclusively obtained by ABC news’ that shows blood on the back of Zimmerman’s head:

1. ABC news did not get the photo from police
2. ABC showed the photo for the first time the day of Zimmerman’s bond hearing
3. ABC altered the images of George’s body that were recorded on video at the police station the night George shot Trayvon.

The blood extends across the top of his head in a straight line. That straight line of blood isn’t realistic – it’s as though an eraser was run across the blood in the upper portion of his head in a straight line.

Ok, I’m going to address you on this, Delaney. Please DO NOT feel obligated to respond, though, because I have no desire to argue with you.

With regards to me taking Loly’s comment the wrong way (about the websites)…you are right. I read it wrong because I just briefly glanced over the comment, and in my mind, I was thinking that she was talking about the MySpace. For that, I owe an apology.

HOWEVER…..let me just go ahead and address THAT now. O’Mara stated that there were several “faux” George Zimmerman sites collecting money that were set up before before Zimmerman launched his. The assertion is that if O’Mara can say that and expect people to believe it, then others have every right to believe Crump when he says the Trayvon twitter account was a fake. Fair enough. You can choose to believe what in the HELL EVER you decide to believe……Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, Leprechauns…….believe away. No one is trying to convince you to believe other than what you want to. Same for Loly. Have at it with my damned blessing.

HOWEVER….there are ways to verify who set up an account. Several of them, actually. For one, you can check the domain provider to see who purchased the domain name. That might offer one hint. Secondly, you can check the IP info to see where the site is being hosted. You can also check to see who owns the paypal account or credit card processing account to accept monies on those sites.

LIKEWISE….with twitter, it’s not really rocket science. Easy enough to verify through friends and IP and history where the tweets are coming from.

I will say this say this, though…..whoever FAKED that twitter account did so long ago, since it had been in existence, followed by TM’s friends, for a long time. That doesn’t mean the twitter account couldn’t have been hacked. Hacking is common.

But to answer the queston posed……I will reiterate…..you can believe whatever you want to believe. If Crump says he was impregnated by the ghost of Rip VanWinkle….you can believe it or not as you see fit. It’s no skin off of my teeth.

Delaney – you said “Yellow Dog, there is unethical/immoral behavior in all professions ….”
You mean like the legal profession? That brings me to the other question you had. Who leaked the medical info? To be honest, my first thought was maybe O’Mara, which was probably everyones initial thought. Which is why I now think it was Crump and Jackson who made the leak.

Notice how quickly Crump and Jackson came out with these questions raising doubts about the integrity of the doctor and the time elapsed before GZ saw him. Actually, the exact same doubts that you just expressed. They also brought into question the medication GZ was on and what, if any, effect that could have had on his mental state.

As I just pointed out, we already knew about the injuries from the police report, so O’Mara had nothing to gain by leaking that part, only to confirm that GZ did see a doctor. The part about the medications certainly is not something that helps O’Mara in any way. So what would he have gained by leaking the info at this point? Nothing.

On the other hand, if Crump & Co. leaked it everybody would assume that O’Mara had done it. Crump & Co. could then act indignant about it a then have the bonus of casting doubt on everything in the report that they themselves had leaked. Plus, they are able to get more face-time in the evening newscast. It’s win-win all around for them. Of course, that’s all just MY opinion of how this all went down.

Delaney,
I think you’re confused. The discussion of this case is not about medical reports or who released them.

If they are released, you can read them and say whether you believe them or not. But to go on and argue their validity when you haven’t any more information is kind of a waste of time, don’t you think?
Everyone here knows how you feel about this case and I’ve allowed you elaborate on other cases as well so now I’m asking you to stop and be respectful.
TIA

PS:
Thank you Yellow Dog for providing the link. I’ll add the link to the sidebar.

Good point AKM,
I haven’t looked at them yet but I think you’re right. I say “think” because during the Anthony case, KC’s psyche report was released? Maybe she signed a consent? IDK
It just seems like this case if being tried in the court of public opinion. Hmmm.. and we all know how that worked out. LOL
OMG!

YD WAVING!!!!
Ok, had a thought. Wonder if the 7-11 tape shows TM having a wallet. Not sure if teenage boys carry wallets now or not. I know my dtrs did, but that means nothing. I also wonder about Brandy Green saying that TM was on the porch. What or who was she talking about?

Back to Richard Kurtz – MIAMI (CBS4) – The funeral director who prepared Trayvon Martin’s body for the memorial service is challenging George Zimmerman’s story that the Martin and Zimmerman got in an intense physical fight before Zimmerman shot and killed the 17-year-old:

In dressing the body we could see no physical signs he had been in a fight or a scuffle. That is something we would have had to cover up had it been there,” said Richard Kurtz of Roy Mizell and Kurtz Funeral Home in Fort Lauderdale. (article )

Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old, Florida high school student was shot to death on February 26, 2012. The man who shot him is 28-year-old George Zimmerman, a self-appointed neighborhood watch captain. Criminal charges against Zimmerman have yet to come as most of the country sits in outrage. Thousands of protestors and over a million signatures on […]
Dang! Hooda thought you didn’t want any comments about the case until the ‘official reports’ were in?! All those comments posted over the past few weeks and based on media reports shouldn’t have been posted, because they’re not official. Do you realize that means nothing would be posted on this blog page? Until I showed up last week, comments in defense of Trayvon Martin were from Lolypop, with a a couple from JB. In return for disagreeing with the propaganda here against Trayvon, Lolypop was personally insulted by Mimi and Omar. So rude . . . Not surprised that the rules have changed since a second person came on board to dispute the propaganda against Trayvon. Going forward – no comments unless they’re from ‘official reports’ – Uh-huh – gotcha, JB!

How dare you accuse me of anything !! You’ve been blog hogging for a week now.
The problem with you Delaney, you’re rude and that’s why I changed the rules because of this stupid case & because of people like you who don’t know HOW to communicate with others.
You’re so far into yourself, you seem to have forgotten that I’m on your side.

So yes, you’re right. I changed it because of people like you. People who have NO communication skills.

I reopened the thread since they released 200 pages of documents but all I’ve seen are articles about them, no actual files???
I wonder why. Maybe they don’t think the general public is capable of drawing our own conclusions. Bummer.

AKM,
About TM’s injuries… HLN’s Politan reported today that TM had a cut on the left knuckle of the little finger. I wonder what part of GZ’s body did TM hit that would have cut him. Usually when there’s a cut on the finger it means that the person punched someone in the teeth but GZ doesn’t have a broken tooth or busted lip.
IDK?

I was very curious as when the pictures were take and where?
At the policestation?
He got out of the car, nothing like we’ve just seen.
So when were they taken?
Does it say?

There can’t be no blood as he gets out of the car and then i the police station,
this comes up?
I must be missing something.

Looks like his head would have been a bloody mess the way he described it.
What is the black and white picture of him looks like a car.
Do you know who took these.
I’ve heard long ago, a firiend walked past them, he said George was on the bottom
yelling for help. This is the guy that didn’t want to be seen on camera.
He’s the one that supposedly took a picture 3 minutes after George shot Trayvon.
His name is John.

No blood on the gun, or all over the front of Zimmerman’s jacket and clothes?
Somthings messed up!!

Hi all. Only have a minute but wanted to say the blood drips down from the central spot and toward the ears on the right and left side. This would happen if he remained on top of Martin long enough for it to bleed but that would mean that his head hit the concrete more than once before this, if so. It makes sense to me that if he was as traumatized as it is said, which most people would be after killing someone, he may have spent some time right after hanging his head or sitting down with his head in his hands. That’s what I’d be doing right after a trauma like this, trying to get my bearings and process what had just happened. One pic shows a cut on his bottom right jaw. I think a knuckle could get scraped while hitting someone in the face, hitting a tooth without breaking it or the lip. I think an important question might be, was Trayvon left hand dominant? The cut on the right jaw and nose looks like he was hit with the left hand. As the hand went across hitting the jaw, if GZ’s mouth was open the knuckle of the little finger could have scraped past a tooth as it came up and around after hitting the jaw. It looks to me like the evidence is showing TM gave the punches and was on top, as some witnesses say. I don’t understand why he has no blood on his clothing in the pic at the police station unless it is because when the gun is touching the person no blood spurts out. If he rolled out from under TM before he fell forward no blood had time to flow. Maybe the force of the shot would push TM back, more in an upright position, making it easier for GZ to get out from under him before he fell. I really don’t know much about this. What do you all think? I’m sure if we get the LE reports there will be observation and opinion. The autopsy report should say how far away the gun was.

If the yellow covering is where the shooting took place then it was off the sidewalk. I doubt that head injuries like that would happen on grass and earth so did that happen on the sidewalk then he hit him in the face, sending him off into the grass? Anybody know what that last picture is, the yellow arrow pointing to something? I thought it might be the bullet casing but that’s in another pic, shown close to the sidewalk.

As for the witness that doesn’t want to go on camera, I certainly don’t blame him. Look at the hate surrounding this case. Look at what transpired with the Anthony trial close by. Also, if this John is African American, with the race card being waved around, he might fear shunning or worse for saying something that supports what Zimmerman is saying.

Have a great weekend all. Sending love out to our friends going through troubling times.

However there will be a trial, maybe, they may toss it out.
But if ther’s a trial we know we always find out more than we knew
and minds can change.

I feel if he does have a trial, that it will be fair. I think they will be
people that won’t mind serving on any jury.
Personally I would rather stay away from any courtroom, but realize that
many people don’t feel the same way.

Kind of like Jose, he descibed it almost like his home!
But that Jose! : )
I love him for it!!

Delalaney, I will post this here as this is the article in which you Called me RUDE to you and Loly. I respectfully disagree with you. You … wont go there as I feel JB stated pretty good in her comment as to my thoughts of you.

And NO MAM I was NOT PROFILING you, and how in the heck is asking you if you will feel the LE photos of GZ were altered as the ABC Exclusive pix were. HOW THE H3LL is that freaking PROFILING YOU? OOOOKAYYYY.

The reason I hadnt responded earlier, is my lap top is having issues. I am at my parents, so I decided to check in. I think you need a breather. Off to catch up on new link. hope ya got it by then.