"Fuse" at Grande Ol' Opry in 2012...Joe Mac didn't go to meetings this year in Orlando because he was covering B's. Tek & Harold Reynolds there as well. Huge sports bar. "Jasko" is my old dog's name & I won't give my real name on here, but Jen & Joe will remember the bar. I have no idea why you would think I would make this stuff up, though. If you worked with Jen, then you should also know that the last 2 digits of her cell phone are "99."

You are amusing to say the least Jasko, especially if you are talking about Middy's girl.

How am I "amusing?" Jen wasn't dating Middy at the time, I have her number for professional reasons only & never did I insinuate that she is promiscuous in any way. You asked for proof & I gave it to you. I now seriously doubt you work at NESN.

If it's any consolation I believe Jasko was your dogs name and Jen wasn't dating Middy in 2012 :) I also know the bar you mentioned was an average hotel bar and the primary hang out for everyone was Sams all American Sports grillin Nashville. Lastly you definately don't know Jen unless she gave you a false cell phone number.

Not sure who you are but I have worked for NESN on and off as an IT Manager for close to 7 years.

Okay, now I'm done with you. You work at the same company as Jen & you can't find anyone with her cell phone #?! I have her business card, but maybe she makes up false cards to give to people. Again, the relationship is purely professional.

As far as the bar goes, are you seriously insinuating that all of those people couldn't have gone to Fuse, because it wasn't the most popular?!?! Are you serious!? I have a few thousand posts on here & I would like you to find one where I come across as some psycho who makes up stories about who he hangs out with. I don't appreciate being called a liar and I've answered all of your smug little questions, yet you can't check the phone # of someone you supposedly work with. Carry on, my friend...

You started the chat by stating you had inside info on why Iggy was traded after I gave you the two primary reasons. Anyone surrounding the Red Sox organization knows this. You then said I must be getting my information from the wrong source even though I worked directly with Jen and Hiedi both at times including attending business dinners, parties and corporate training events together. Then you called "Fuse" a huge Sports bar when in fact its a simple hotel bar at the Gaylord hotel.

I'm not saying you didn't go to this bar, or may have met Jen at some point but thats not her cell number. As a matter of fact none of our cell phone numbers are listed on our business cards, only the office answering service # and email address for obvious reasons.

Lets just agree to disagree as you stated earlier because at this point I could care less.

Nope...You took this too far & questioned my character. I'm going to take a picture of her card, block out most of her cell & paste it on here, ya lying little....Also, her fax number is on there, but maybe you "missed it." "Fuse" has over 100 TVs. It's huuuge. You can probably google it & see pics, genius!

Lastly, you're right, the Sox are always looking to get rid of young, gold glove caliber short stops who were hitting well over .300 and were under team control, for less than a year and a half of an injury prone pitcher who would be slotted in the 3 or 4 hole. There were no issues at all. Clueless....

Take a picture of anything you want I know what our business cards look like and yes there is an office fax number. Fuse is a hotel bar period and not very popular among anyone other than those staying at the Gaylord. Iggy was traded for two primary reasons, one due to Dempsters lack of production and also Clay being on the DL. We needed to stay in the race and were forced to find pitching help. The FO was only forced to move Bogy along quicker than expected becuase Middy was struggling and everyone was screaming for the FO to get someone on the club other than Middy against lefties.

Now I know your a nut case if you think one can google an actual business card from someone.

I said you can google pics of the "Fuse." I will cut & paste her card tonight.

"Fuse" at Grande Ol' Opry in 2012...Joe Mac didn't go to meetings this year in Orlando because he was covering B's. Tek & Harold Reynolds there as well. Huge sports bar. "Jasko" is my old dog's name & I won't give my real name on here, but Jen & Joe will remember the bar. I have no idea why you would think I would make this stuff up, though. If you worked with Jen, then you should also know that the last 2 digits of her cell phone are "99."

You are amusing to say the least Jasko, especially if you are talking about Middy's girl.

How am I "amusing?" Jen wasn't dating Middy at the time, I have her number for professional reasons only & never did I insinuate that she is promiscuous in any way. You asked for proof & I gave it to you. I now seriously doubt you work at NESN.

If it's any consolation I believe Jasko was your dogs name and Jen wasn't dating Middy in 2012 :) I also know the bar you mentioned was an average hotel bar and the primary hang out for everyone was Sams all American Sports grillin Nashville. Lastly you definately don't know Jen unless she gave you a false cell phone number.

Not sure who you are but I have worked for NESN on and off as an IT Manager for close to 7 years.

Okay, now I'm done with you. You work at the same company as Jen & you can't find anyone with her cell phone #?! I have her business card, but maybe she makes up false cards to give to people. Again, the relationship is purely professional.

As far as the bar goes, are you seriously insinuating that all of those people couldn't have gone to Fuse, because it wasn't the most popular?!?! Are you serious!? I have a few thousand posts on here & I would like you to find one where I come across as some psycho who makes up stories about who he hangs out with. I don't appreciate being called a liar and I've answered all of your smug little questions, yet you can't check the phone # of someone you supposedly work with. Carry on, my friend...

You started the chat by stating you had inside info on why Iggy was traded after I gave you the two primary reasons. Anyone surrounding the Red Sox organization knows this. You then said I must be getting my information from the wrong source even though I worked directly with Jen and Hiedi both at times including attending business dinners, parties and corporate training events together. Then you called "Fuse" a huge Sports bar when in fact its a simple hotel bar at the Gaylord hotel.

I'm not saying you didn't go to this bar, or may have met Jen at some point but thats not her cell number. As a matter of fact none of our cell phone numbers are listed on our business cards, only the office answering service # and email address for obvious reasons.

Lets just agree to disagree as you stated earlier because at this point I could care less.

Nope...You took this too far & questioned my character. I'm going to take a picture of her card, block out most of her cell & paste it on here, ya lying little....Also, her fax number is on there, but maybe you "missed it." "Fuse" has over 100 TVs. It's huuuge. You can probably google it & see pics, genius!

Lastly, you're right, the Sox are always looking to get rid of young, gold glove caliber short stops who were hitting well over .300 and were under team control, for less than a year and a half of an injury prone pitcher who would be slotted in the 3 or 4 hole. There were no issues at all. Clueless....

Take a picture of anything you want I know what our business cards look like and yes there is an office fax number. Fuse is a hotel bar period and not very popular among anyone other than those staying at the Gaylord. Iggy was traded for two primary reasons, one due to Dempsters lack of production and also Clay being on the DL. We needed to stay in the race and were forced to find pitching help. The FO was only forced to move Bogy along quicker than expected becuase Middy was struggling and everyone was screaming for the FO to get someone on the club other than Middy against lefties.

Now I know your a nut case if you think one can google an actual business card from someone.

I said you can google pics of the "Fuse." I will cut & paste her card tonight.

Of course, take all the time you want. If it's one of our business cards then maybe I will believe you.

Looks legit so I apologize, the cell number is our automated system. NESN doesn't give out personal cells or emails just company related. Doesn't change my opinion on Iggys facts, or anything an ESPN reporter may have told you.

Looks legit so I apologize, the cell number is our automated system. NESN doesn't give out personal cells or emails just company related. Doesn't change my opinion on Iggys facts, or anything an ESPN reporter may have told you.

Fair enough...I'll agree to disagree, but it wasn't an ESPN reporter who told me anything about Iglesias...Ask yourself this, though. Why would the Sox, who clearly value their young talent as much as, if not more than, any other team, be so willing to give up Iglesias in a trade for a #3/#4 type starter who was going to give them less than a year and a half worth of starts at pretty big dollars if they valued him so much?

Granted, they had a superstar SS in waiting with Bogaerts, but ask around a little bit. There were serious concerns about Iglesias and they'll be leaked out at some point.

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

Solid summary of the events at the time, Beantowne, all of which are well documented. The Sox were clearly in need of pitching depth & could have added bullpen help, a starter, or both. My entire point was that Iglesias had fallen out of favor in the eyes of some in the organization due to on going concerns about his make-up. There were people insinuating that the Sox "had" to "give up" Iglesias because Dempster "didn't do his job," which is ridiculous. I understand all of the reasons why the Sox acquired a Peavy, including the mental boost it gives the clubhouse when an organization shows a commitment to winning "now," but "blaming" Dempster for "losing" Iggy is, again, absurd. As you mentioned, Iggy was never plan "A" at SS moving forward.

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

Solid summary of the events at the time, Beantowne, all of which are well documented. The Sox were clearly in need of pitching depth & could have added bullpen help, a starter, or both. My entire point was that Iglesias had fallen out of favor in the eyes of some in the organization due to on going concerns about his make-up. There were people insinuating that the Sox "had" to "give up" Iglesias because Dempster "didn't do his job," which is ridiculous. I understand all of the reasons why the Sox acquired a Peavy, including the mental boost it gives the clubhouse when an organization shows a commitment to winning "now," but "blaming" Dempster for "losing" Iggy is, again, absurd. As you mentioned, Iggy was never plan "A" at SS moving forward.

There were questions about Iggys makeup, no doubt. along with Xander looking much better at Ss, it allowed the Sox to let Iggy go. Bogaerts was always supposed the "man" after he was drafted. For some reason, a few folks here kept insisting he was a better 3b. That went directly against how the Sox and how a lot of scouts have recently changed their view from 2 years ago about Bogey.

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

Solid summary of the events at the time, Beantowne, all of which are well documented. The Sox were clearly in need of pitching depth & could have added bullpen help, a starter, or both. My entire point was that Iglesias had fallen out of favor in the eyes of some in the organization due to on going concerns about his make-up. There were people insinuating that the Sox "had" to "give up" Iglesias because Dempster "didn't do his job," which is ridiculous. I understand all of the reasons why the Sox acquired a Peavy, including the mental boost it gives the clubhouse when an organization shows a commitment to winning "now," but "blaming" Dempster for "losing" Iggy is, again, absurd. As you mentioned, Iggy was never plan "A" at SS moving forward.

There were questions about Iggys makeup, no doubt. along with Xander looking much better at Ss, it allowed the Sox to let Iggy go. Bogaerts was always supposed the "man" after he was drafted. For some reason, a few folks here kept insisting he was a better 3b. That went directly against how the Sox and how a lot of scouts have recently changed their view from 2 years ago about Bogey.

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

Solid summary of the events at the time, Beantowne, all of which are well documented. The Sox were clearly in need of pitching depth & could have added bullpen help, a starter, or both. My entire point was that Iglesias had fallen out of favor in the eyes of some in the organization due to on going concerns about his make-up. There were people insinuating that the Sox "had" to "give up" Iglesias because Dempster "didn't do his job," which is ridiculous. I understand all of the reasons why the Sox acquired a Peavy, including the mental boost it gives the clubhouse when an organization shows a commitment to winning "now," but "blaming" Dempster for "losing" Iggy is, again, absurd. As you mentioned, Iggy was never plan "A" at SS moving forward.

There were questions about Iggys makeup, no doubt. along with Xander looking much better at Ss, it allowed the Sox to let Iggy go. Bogaerts was always supposed the "man" after he was drafted. For some reason, a few folks here kept insisting he was a better 3b. That went directly against how the Sox and how a lot of scouts have recently changed their view from 2 years ago about Bogey.

Well said, Southpaw...

hope everythings good with you Jasko. I tried to have Teresa contact you for the winter meetings. I was actually considering coming down.

2014-15 were the big years as far as prospects go. So many moves that will need to be made. Now with Dempster "retired", Workman can step up into that 6th spot. This team is in the perfect position financially, regarding prospects throughout the system, not just the upper levels, solid managing/coaching, great mix of vets and young players and one of the best farm systems in all of MLB.

2014-15 were the big years as far as prospects go. So many moves that will need to be made. Now with Dempster "retired", Workman can step up into that 6th spot. This team is in the perfect position financially, regarding prospects throughout the system, not just the upper levels, solid managing/coaching, great mix of vets and young players and one of the best farm systems in all of MLB.

Well siad. We are solid top to bottom, and with 3 possible draft picks out of the top 33 or 34, our extended future should brighten up as well.

There were questions about Iggys makeup, no doubt. along with Xander looking much better at Ss, it allowed the Sox to let Iggy go. Bogaerts was always supposed the "man" after he was drafted. For some reason, a few folks here kept insisting he was a better 3b. That went directly against how the Sox and how a lot of scouts have recently changed their view from 2 years ago about Bogey.

There has been a recent change in tone by scouts on Bogey's moving to 3B, but I searched about 5 reports that were all after June 2013, and almost all still mentioned a positional change at some point in his career.

I still take any talk of "positional change" to mean there are serious doubts about the player being or becomming a plus defender at that position. Maybe I'm reading into these reports things that are not intended, but there is also a distinct possibility that Sox management recognizes Bogey's defensive limitations at SS, expects he will never become a plus defender at SS, but still wants to keep him at SS for a while to gain the huge SS comparative offensive value gain over other clubs with weak SS offense.

I'm not writing off Bogey's SS defense. He is very athletic and seems to have a strong drive to get better. I'm hoping I am wrong about Bogey's defensive promise. I was wrong about the defense of Drew and Aviles and have not seen enough of Bogey's play in the field to form a strong opinion one way or the other.

soxprospects.com still has this to say...

Plus arm. Solid-average range, but may lose footspeed as he gets bigger. Needs to slow the game down defensively and resist the feeling to rush plays. Inconsistent with footwork and staying down on the ball. Choppy at times with his movements and reactions.Improvements in the field and physical development should allow Bogaerts to stick at shortstop for the outset of his big league career. If he needs to move off the position, has the tools to play either third base or left field

The scouting book:

His weaknesses to date are iffy strike zone judgement (he's young) and some awkwardness in the field, especially with his footwork (he's young). There's really not anything to worry about here, though, other than the possibility he may bump Middlebrooks to first base one of these years.

Baseball Prospectus (Aug 2013)

As a shortstop, he’s made strides in improving his footwork and technique, and the reads off the bat have gotten better as well. The foot speed is only average, however, and further loss of speed into his mid-20s is going to decrease his average-to-slightly-better-than-average range. Given his athleticism, reactions, and instincts, a permanent move over to third base should agree well with Bogaerts, and he has potential to round into a plus defender at the hot corner.

SI (Jan 2014)

The only issues that scouts foresee with him are his patience at the plate (which can be taught) and his long-term range as a shortstop. The prominent theory is that he’ll eventually be groomed to take over at third base. This could be expedited if the Red Sox find another shortstop of the future within the next few years, trade for a current shortstop, or just open up the checkbook and sign one from the open market. It should be noted that Hanley Ramirez and Asdrubal Cabrera hit the market at the end of this season, and Ian Desmond becomes available at the end of next season. While I wouldn’t hold my breath on those options, I wouldn’t completely close the doors on them, either.

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

Solid summary of the events at the time, Beantowne, all of which are well documented. The Sox were clearly in need of pitching depth & could have added bullpen help, a starter, or both. My entire point was that Iglesias had fallen out of favor in the eyes of some in the organization due to on going concerns about his make-up. There were people insinuating that the Sox "had" to "give up" Iglesias because Dempster "didn't do his job," which is ridiculous. I understand all of the reasons why the Sox acquired a Peavy, including the mental boost it gives the clubhouse when an organization shows a commitment to winning "now," but "blaming" Dempster for "losing" Iggy is, again, absurd. As you mentioned, Iggy was never plan "A" at SS moving forward.

There were questions about Iggys makeup, no doubt. along with Xander looking much better at Ss, it allowed the Sox to let Iggy go. Bogaerts was always supposed the "man" after he was drafted. For some reason, a few folks here kept insisting he was a better 3b. That went directly against how the Sox and how a lot of scouts have recently changed their view from 2 years ago about Bogey.

Well said, Southpaw...

hope everythings good with you Jasko. I tried to have Teresa contact you for the winter meetings. I was actually considering coming down.

2014-15 were the big years as far as prospects go. So many moves that will need to be made. Now with Dempster "retired", Workman can step up into that 6th spot. This team is in the perfect position financially, regarding prospects throughout the system, not just the upper levels, solid managing/coaching, great mix of vets and young players and one of the best farm systems in all of MLB.

Nope, not much to complain about here.

Things are good, Southpaw. You'll have to come down to the meetings at some point. The Sox are definitely as well positioned as any organization in baseball. I'm sure they'll be very active over the next few years.

The AL east looks like it will be strong again this year. Jimenez should help put Baltimore right in the mix, Tampa & Boston should both be in the hunt & I think the Yankees will be better than some people think & not just because of who they've added. The loss of A-Rod, and to a lesser extent, the loss of Cano, could very well have the same type of positive affect that the Dodger trade had for Boston, which is obviously addition by subtraction. There's a lot of talent in Toronto as well. It should be a great summer!

I can only think of one other Boston Athlete who left a year on the table because he felt he could not give 100 percent. Dempster is not in Larry Bird's class on the field, but off the field he sure is.

Dempster took a lot of abuse last year with nick names and other comments. He could have easily sat out most of the season like some other sox players have recently done. Instead he made a move which helps the team. The sox are used to players sitting out with no apparent injury on an mri, so Dempster doing it would have been business as usual.

the Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

So if you look at the deal they made with the Tigers & White Sox all three teams at the time of the deal.

The Tigers at the time of deal needed a SS with Peralta suspended, they saw it as a fatal flaw and traded Avsil Garcia a top OF prospect...

The Red Sox fatal flaw was due to the above pitching scenario and traded a top SS prospect

The White Sox were in the rebuilding mode and had a surplus of ML starting pitching And we're looking to add organizational depth and pare payroll...

Lost on many is that this deal doesn't happen if not for both the Sox and Tigers in the interest of making the playoffs and being a legit contenders addressing what was seen at the time as fatal flaws to thier quest to win it all. Secondly the Tigers don't give up Garcia if they don't get a player of equal value in return (top prospect under the teams control). Lastly the Sox don't trade Iglesias if they weren't confident that the net gain puts them in position to make the playoffs or more importantly by trading him it didn't create a void in our system...FYI like it or not Iggy was #3 on the org chart last year behind Drew and Bogaerts with Marrero a like talent emerging behind Iggy.

What we'll never know is to what end did Peavy and Dempster help us to win it all...Clearly they played a role...Both today are World Series Champions...What I can say unequivocally is that Ben Cherington and the Sox Ownership based on the results of 2013 deserve praise for a job well done...

Solid summary of the events at the time, Beantowne, all of which are well documented. The Sox were clearly in need of pitching depth & could have added bullpen help, a starter, or both. My entire point was that Iglesias had fallen out of favor in the eyes of some in the organization due to on going concerns about his make-up. There were people insinuating that the Sox "had" to "give up" Iglesias because Dempster "didn't do his job," which is ridiculous. I understand all of the reasons why the Sox acquired a Peavy, including the mental boost it gives the clubhouse when an organization shows a commitment to winning"now," but "blaming" Dempster for "losing" Iggy is, again, absurd. As you mentioned, Iggy was never plan "A" at SS moving forward.

I completely agree with all of your comments above and thought I'd highlight one that is often over looked by stat heads.

The Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

The addition of Peavy took a lot of pressure off the pitching staff and gave them flexibility. The Sox didn't have to force Doubront and Dempster out there when they hit a wall.

Dempster was decent through his first start in July (4.04 ERA, 18 starts, July 6). He had only two good outings in his next seven outings. However, he finished strong -- a 3.46 ERA in seven games, four starts to end the season.

Then the Sox were able to skip Doubront when Doubront hit the wall. Doubront had a 3.74 ERA at the end of August then went 3.2 IP/4 R and 3.2IP/6 R in back-to-back starts. So they skipped him, he had 15 days of rest then came back and went 7 IP, 2 ER in his next start.

Workman might have given the Sox that but he was a rookie and unproven, and the Sox needed bullpen help, which they want him to help with and he finally didn in the postseason.

For all the chicken-and-beer nonsense of 2011, the REAL issue was the lack of pitching dept. The Sox had no one dependable after Beckett and Lester (after buchholz went down). Dempster might have been overpaid, but he gave enough at the end of the rotation to help out and Peavy did the same when he came.

The Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

The Peavy for Iggy trade was made because the Sox were in the hunt for a playooff spot and In order to give the team the bast chance to stay in the hunt. the front office due injury and underperformance needed to add both quality and depth to their pitching staff.

Here's the dynamic that the team was facing at the time of the trade..

>The uncertainty of Clay Buccholz

>injuries to Miller, Morales, Hanrahan & Bailey.

>Dempsters performace to date was less than expected.

>Lachey's reaching innings limits or his ability to finish the year strong coming off TJ surgery

Conclusion was they needed to add a proven veteran starter to bolster the rotation for the second half of the year to keep them in position to make the playooffs. To serve as insurance, a pitcher with the ability to step into the role vacated by either Lachey or Buccholz. Which would then allow them to move Workman into the bullpen to help shore up what was also a need.

Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

I didn't think so.

This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

Down the stretch Peavy had 4.04 ERA and 1.16 WHIP in 10 starts. (August was superb, September much less so.) Very solid. The playoffs were obviously a different story, but he did have a very good start against the Rays.

Can anyone say with confidence we'd have gotten the same out of Workman, Wesbter, or any of the other options?

I didn't think so.

This trade accomplished exactly what it was supposed to in 2013. Not sure why anyone would feel the need to second-guess that.

It is tought to look back and do the would have should have. But the sox won the division with a big enough lead that they did not need peavy.

Without peavy the ending would have been the same. Now there is a kid playing for detroit who should still be a sox.