I am returning to the LSD scene after 16 years of not touching the stuff.. When I first tried it i came on here trying to describe my expierience and swore that it was so much more enlightening, and clearer, and overall more wonderfull than in the past. I was convinced that it was all about set and setting. I believed this to be true because my set is wonderful today and my settings have been beautiful... Then the last few trips i have started to increase the dose. I noticed an insane body load, stronger than 2ci, and some diarrhea. Then this last time I increase the dose to two blotters and had diarrhea for three days.
my normal expierience is as follows.
Dose. 45-1hr later full effects.
Hrs.; 1-3 very beautiful visuals, things are very clear, I can function very good. Things seems to move alot, especially brush work paintings, the floors walls have a lot of movement but is interesting. I can easily ignore the movement and continue to my next activity. CLOSED EYE visuals are absolutely amazing, like seeing in bright light with your eyes closed.

Hrs 3-6 I like to call it my hooney moon time. Everything appears almost like it does when on MDMA or 2ci. Peak is gone. Body load is not as severe. Sex is amazing at this time. Little visuals but if you look at lazers lights ect you will like them.
6-12 hrs fun time still feel like your on a trip but no where near as pronounced.
Music is absolutely amazing. This is if i take the LSD alone. and i do get the diarrhea.
I do not get diarrhea from MDMA or 2ci.
I have a very clean diet of organic almost everything, lots of whole grains, and am in very good physical condition, a lot of exercise ect. little to no alcohol.

My last expierience I dosed some MDMA and lots of nitrous with an amazing sound system in the middle of the mountains in a beautiful house with my four best friends. Most euphoric experience of my life. to bad it followed three days of the shits. lol

Please dont erase this or move this thread to trip reports.. It belongs here I want to know if people have similar expierience with this possible new form of LSD or if is good old LSD. Im not asking anyone to identify anything. Thanks.. My blotter was blue paper with black funny looking suns on it. If this post needs to be edited then please do so but I do not think it should be moved. This is in interest of all the blue light psychadelic users and we need to know if what we are taking is infact good old lsd or something new and if it can harm us or is as safe as LSD.

Dwayne, I was not trying to say that what's out there is only 'pure LSD, only that the acid that I've had in the past, which I think is real, always had the same effects depending upon batch. But come to think of it, I revisited red gellies a year after I got them when I found some I had stashed. They were different. But the evidence the op shows seems to indicate that there is something else getting laid on blotters these days, aside from DOx, which I've never had the displeasure of having, thank god! All I want is the real shit that can make a plain kleenex look like a sheet of bounty!

A straw man argument is an informal fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position.[1] To "attack a straw man" is to create the illusion of having refuted a proposition by substituting it with a superficially similar yet unequivalent proposition (the "straw man"), and refuting it, without ever having actually refuted the original position

What I meant was that you were making out like I am saying I am considering as my only basis the reports of all kinds of random different people reporting certain conclusions over the net. And you were ridiculing the obvious weakness of that.

Whereas I am saying my basis is the direct observed detailed experiences and effects that have been had by myself and people I know and tripped with in real life.

Which are 2 VERY different sets of things.

Hence the section in italics is what it seemed to me you were erecting a strawman argument that misrepresents what I was saying only so you could easily knock it down.

I'm a software engineer, and know a little about "scientific approach". And neither side in this debate have much in way of claims of anything resembling a statistically meaningful dataset. I DO know that in the area of pharmaceutical research, the fine details of the subjective impressions of the users of drugs being tested are gathered and scrutinized VERY carefully and are given substantial weight and importance in the process of releasing new drugs to market. Alot more weight than those arguing "all 100% pure LSD all the time" are giving to the vast number of 1st person accounts that would seem to indicate differences in the material of some sort.

In fact they seem to be saying that BECAUSE lsd affects the mind in particular, that in this case EVERY user impression report must be disregarded and viewed as tainted unreliable worthless information. Which I am saying is preposterous and radical.

Hmm....... It seems to me that LSD is the only substance that people have these problems with. I believe that, while maybe set, setting, impurities may have something to do with it, the main thing is that LSD is sort of like an ever-changing chameleon. Maybe the age of the batch has something to do with it, too? how much heat it's had since laying? Maybe LSD is just different than other drugs. I certainly think so. I'm not saying that there aren't other things being put on tabs, but I did a lot of acid from the same source and had different experiences. But green gellies acted like green gellies. Blue likew blue. Purple like purple. Anyone else had those red ones that were going around Philadelphia in 1998? I had fun with them, but a friend said he tripped for 22 hours on one geltab!!!!! I certainly didn't experience that, and the hit was from my sheet. I gave it to him. What you expect from the trip changes what you get out of it. Period. LSD is LSD is LSD is a weird drug.

LSD is definitely a very weird drug. Not only is it one of the most complex psychedelics from a pharmacological standpoint (ibogaine is probably more complicated but few others are even contenders), but also it carries a tremendous weight of very salient cultural baggage ... viz. the amount of mythology that has come up surrounding it, more so than probably any other substance on the planet.

I believe this myth was first circulated due to the disbelief of others' when the other hears about one taking LSD. They are often quick to have a high ego and pawn the blotter off as one not containing LSD but an RC, perhaps. LSD is just as rampant today as it was in the 60s and 70s.

Don't get me wrong though, RCs can appear on blotters as I have made them with 2C-E.

And most figures from seizures and associated GC/MS testing I've seen over the years put the average dose on the average blotter at pretty much a constant average from the 60s right up to this weekend. And probably next week here and there too. Given the historical precedent anyway. Seems to be bit of a trend. A fairly fixed and stable trend admittedly. On average. On a Tuesday week. With a following wind. And maybe a friendly passing elf willing you on with all his lil elfy mite. Or might. Maybe. On average. More samples should probably be sampled to be sure though I'm sure.

Really? Could give more details? dose per 1/4in tab? taste? Kind of paper?

Roughly 3-5mg per 1/4th inch tab but we weren't chopping them that small. I'm not sure the exact measurements but we concluded it was near 10-12mg per tab due to the total amount we put in, 500mg, and the number of tabs after chopping the entire sheet.

I thought most tabs could only absorb around 2mg or so? I've seen 2C-E tabs before but they were massive - about 3-4" square(ish). They were very handmade and basically just ripped up pieces of blotting paper - no design. I turned them down cos fuck knows what the dose was. The lass selling them didn't seem to have a clue - didn't even know what an "average" 2C-E dose was anyway. She didn't make them herself but the fella she got them from who did make them was obviously a bit of a nob cos he said nothing about dose. Then again, most lil kiddiez really aren't gonna have a clue so would just take them as if they were acid. The thought of munching three or four tabs with an unknown dose of 2C-E on them is pretty freaky really. She did say she would give them back to the fella she got them from and wouldn't be selling them but who knows?

Never seen 2C-x on tabs other than that one time. And they weren't being claimed as being acid - at least she knew the name of the drug and was planning to charge more than for acid cos 2C-E is so much rarer. On "the street" certainly.

Raggedy: Makes sense. Anyone know how much 2C-E could fit on such a tab cos the tabs I was offered were fuckin' huge. Either they contained a gram of 2C-E apiece or it was diluted at 0.0001mg/ml or summat.

Hallucinogens: That seems slightly more likely to me. I'm sure dilution would likely explain the discrepancy. Tis a hell of a difference between 1/2" and 3-4" though. But the ones I saw were very rough 'n' ready indeed, to be fair.

Get yerself a Dutch friend and send one tab from each batch you get to them to get it tested. Bingo - you now know what it is and what dose is on each tab. Or get busted and keep a copy of the GC/MS test results and post them here. One idea may be better than the other...

On another forum on this topic it was mentioned that there was a Dutch place that tests blotters, but no-one could produce an email/contact details.

Even if such a place exists would their tests be sophisticated enough to differentiate between LSD and these LS? chemicals?

A popular counter argument for the "It's definitely LSD" brigade is that users have had substances confiscated and tested by the authorities and that they have been tested as LSD. Such blotters include the bitter tasting ones. Obviously this is all just hear-say, I can't link to reports or anything; but with this in mind is it possible then that the authorities in general aren't testing these blotters correctly? And therefore any institution, Dutch or otherwise, may make the same mistake?

I've had bitter-tasting blotter that is definitely acid. Some inks used to print the pretty pics are very bitter so taste is of very limited use in determining substance. That GC/MS evidence has to stand up in court so I would tend to believe it. It's unbelievably detailed. That plus it's always fitted with personal experience. You can get tabs tested all over Holland and it is not done by "the authorities" - it's independent. They even give you the ug dose per tab as I said. That's pretty sophisticated testing. And - again - the results I've had always fit with personal experience of known doses.

There is a blatant flaw like a huge sore with these "just get them tested and this proves it is all only perfect pure LSD" posts is this:

Will this testing identify and list EVERY substance of ANY kind that is in the dose?

Answer: NO!!!

They are looking for certain common drugs of abuse, and if it is not one of those, they will not tell you it is on there because they are not trained to recognize them, only the "abused" ones.

When people say a given batch is "dirty" they do not necessarily mean that it is one of these "non LSD ergoloids"

It may very well contain some quantity of LSD.

But the dirty ones sure seem like they also contain some OTHER compounds, resulting probably from a lousy/lazy synthesis process, that cause the whole stew to feel "dirty."

I am EXTREMELY dubious that these "test your drugs" places are going to be able to identify everything with total accuracy. They know they are only looking for a very limited set of things.

IMO, the likelihood of OTHER INTERACTING CHEMICALS seems FAR more likely, than this cockamamie hypothesis that real pure LSD is going to cause, in the same experienced person at the same dose in the same setting:

Again I assert that the same drug in the same person in the same situation is going to case these 2 180 degree opposite effects profiles is in fact the RIDICULOUS theory, and the one for which there is little to no evidence. The other theory is supported by generations of reports from many highly experienced careful observant users, evidence of a type that is ROUTINELY taken as VERY significant by standard practices in the pharmaceutical development sciences.

It's true the Dutch tests don't necessarily test for a range of other drugs. But they do test for LSD and LSD alone in very detailed stylee. If they are so shonky then how come the precise ug figures they supply? If it's not LSD it comes back as "Unknown" (or "Not LSD" or whatever). That combined with GC/MS tests which agree with them and personal experience is good enough for me. Unless it really is an international conspiracy amongst various unconnected people and organisations both governmental, police and independent working together to hide the fact that something very similar to LSD that lasts half as long is also available and nobody notices the difference in duration.

Also, why are you so insistent that the opinions of those who agree with you must be true and the opinions of those who hold slightly different opinions are either wrong or part of this supposed conspiracy? "My side" of the argument aren't disputing the existence of LS? tabs - just their prevalence.