Personally, I can never understand why people feel it is "so damned important" to point out how "non-important" a subject is to them.

Especially, after posting and continuing the discussion.

I find it academically somewhat interesting; nonetheless it puzzles me that people seem to get so damned riled up about it. This does not seem to me either contradictory, remarkable, or difficult to understand.

(I disagree that I continued the discussion, though. I hope I provided a resource that someone will find interesting, but if I contributed directly to discussion, I’m not even sure what argument I’m supposed to have put forward or what side I’m supposed to be on.)

I have an admission to make. I have re-read my most recent response to erezb and found it culturally wanting. Such insensitivity being out-of-line with such rarified company as Boffshido, I feel compelled to make amends.

I spoke, in the aforementioned misguided reply, of handing a rifle to each and every mid.-eastern hairy-monobrow in the hopes that they'd go at each other and rid us of the need to live with them any longer. This, of course, constitutes little more than something-for-nothing welfare. Nothing could be less compatible with the very part of the world which is widely thought to be the birthplace of free-market trading.

To make amends, I propose a trading scenario, a quid-pro-quo marketplace where something is given in exchange for something received.

What does the mid.-east have that is useful to the rest of the world? Oil.

Therefore, after all national arsenals have been equalized in order to make the starting-ground even, we should exchange arms for oil. Fix an exchange rate in which a given amount of oil is worth a certain number of firearms and ammunition.

The end result will be the same: howling abrahamic zealots will use their oil-bought arms to go after each other within the wall we've built to surround their wretched part of the world. The only difference is that those nations without oil to offer in exchange for arms will likely perish early on.

Oh well, the free-market dictates as it will. If some oil-bereft monobrows perish first, they need only blame their chosen omnipotent deity...who didn't judge them sufficiently worthy to have oil placed in their land.

There. A much more culturally-sensitive solution. I feel much better now.

Man.. i donno where youíre from, but the Chinese, indians and iranians are way more of a threat to your wellbeing, and a much bigger nuisance on earths resources. Though, i won't object of making your habitat a natural reserve. BTW you donít think the western governments have anything to do with the conflicts in the Middle East? (Hint, look at how they sketched the borders, and their considerations doing so). Iím not trying to say the people here as a whole are peace loving gentle creatures, but where do you find such humans? Or do you think your country is morally superior just because itís not currently in a territorial dispute. P.S the gun thing was allready dun, it's way too slow, i mean look at those americans, hardly killing each other.

You are on a martial arts board, where you used to get "riled up" about some dumb **** just like me. MY point is, if we can argue something as mundane as aliveness, in a niche market, academically speaking this thread shouldn't surprise you in any way.

This does not seem to me either contradictory, remarkable, or difficult to understand.

I don't know what "this" you are referring to in your sentence. I'm ALWAYS fascinated how entrenched and angry people become when discussing or arguing religion or martial arts. I mean the parallels are ridiculously similar. Yet, in both cases, people can't be rational when their beliefs, education or knowledge is questioned. WTF?

(I disagree that I continued the discussion, though. I hope I provided a resource that someone will find interesting, but if I contributed directly to discussion, I’m not even sure what argument I’m supposed to have put forward or what side I’m supposed to be on.)

WTF? This thread is fucking every one up and making them say illogical bullshit. Are you going to sit here and tell me you have NEVER had a discussion without taking sides? I NEVER said you took sides, I said you helped CONTINUE the discussion.

Edit here:

CARRIER: Ehrman commits a fallacy of false analogy. Whether by bad wording or bad memory (it doesn’t matter, since the misinforming effect on readers is the same), Ehrman makes the factually false claim that Pontius Pilate is like Jesus in being a famous person having no contemporary references to him, yet we believe he exists.

This is a good resource.. It actaully helps, reinforce the point I, Bodhi and Wrabbit were trying to explain to goodlun. Still, it is very similar and if he chooses to comeback he can make the same "but paper blah blah blah journal blah blah blah."

So, yes it helps continue this line of the discussion. No, it does not mean you are taking sides. Well, actually, it could be taken that way.

but the Chinese, indians and iranians are way more of a threat to your wellbeing

Nobody said anything about 'threats'. I was referring to historical annoyance. Not every person lives in perpetually-paranoid circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, Iran and the nation most paranoid about Iran are two countries which richly deserve each other.

Though, i won't object of making your habitat a natural reserve.

'Natural reserve' is exactly what I had in mind for the flea-bitten middle-east. Once the religion-crazed protohumans which inhabit it have wiped each other out, the quarantine wall can come down and the rest of us can watch natural succession grow over the ruins. That even happens in arid zones, apparently. Peace in the middle east at last...

BTW you don’t think the western governments have anything to do with the conflicts in the Middle East?

Absolutely. Look at that idiotic Balfour Declaration. Just one example of why there should be no further aid, to any country in the region, and the isolation wall should ensure that there's no further input from the rest of the world until the various mutual-hate-jihads have cleared the area out.

I’m not trying to say the people here as a whole are peace loving gentle creatures,

...but aren't the area's faiths 'religions of peace'?

...but where do you find such humans?

Just about anywhere else. Just about. Why?

Or do you think your country is morally superior just because it’s not currently in a territorial dispute.

No. It's superior because it bans headscarves and kipahs in public places. Damn good thing, too.

P.S the gun thing was allready dun, it's way too slow, i mean look at those americans, hardly killing each other.

I am afraid I must point out a little flaw in Vieux Normand's ten point plan for Peace in the Middle East.

You just armed everyone to the teeth even more so than they already were. What's to stop them from shooting the containment wall to splinters and then we're worse off than we were when we started this mess.
(Fun fact: A lot of the troubles the United States are experiencing right now can be traced back to our equipping the "Soldiers of God" in Afghanistan so they could kill some filthy commies for us. But I'm sure we have learned from that, and we won't be doing anything similar in modern day Syria...)

Also, I think the "Jesus was like the Cat in the Hat! He isn't real!" guys are the equivalent of the "The Earth is flat! Genesis said so!" contingent on my side of the fence.

(Fun fact: A lot of the troubles the United States are experiencing right now can be traced back to our equipping the "Soldiers of God" in Afghanistan so they could kill some filthy commies for us. But I'm sure we have learned from that, and we won't be doing anything similar in modern day Syria...)

I believe that Charlie Wilson honestly believes giving the mujahideen weapons was more about it being the humanitarian thing than fighting a proxies-war. I am also not so naive to believe that the rest of the people who went along with this believed the same thing.

Nobody said anything about 'threats'. I was referring to historical annoyance. Not every person lives in perpetually-paranoid circumstances. As far as I'm concerned, Iran and the nation most paranoid about Iran are two countries which richly deserve each other.

'Natural reserve' is exactly what I had in mind for the flea-bitten middle-east. Once the religion-crazed protohumans which inhabit it have wiped each other out, the quarantine wall can come down and the rest of us can watch natural succession grow over the ruins. That even happens in arid zones, apparently. Peace in the middle east at last...

Absolutely. Look at that idiotic Balfour Declaration. Just one example of why there should be no further aid, to any country in the region, and the isolation wall should ensure that there's no further input from the rest of the world until the various mutual-hate-jihads have cleared the area out.

...but aren't the area's faiths 'religions of peace'?

Just about anywhere else. Just about. Why?

No. It's superior because it bans headscarves and kipahs in public places. Damn good thing, too.

You're more than welcome to have that discussion with the Americans.

Trollshido: heavy-bag of the internet.

Boffshido: speed-bag.

PFFF, Franche people... the arabs of europe... Hope your children marry a monobrow (most likely your doughter is going to).
BTW you guys are also monobrows at least the ones living in the meadleeast part.
PFF franche people..god dame... and here i thought you were Canadian.

I believe that Charlie Wilson honestly believes giving the mujahideen weapons was more about it being the humanitarian thing than fighting a proxies-war. I am also not so naive to believe that the rest of the people who went along with this believed the same thing.

My own opinion is that "Remember when you guys were giving the VC and NVA all those cool toys? NOT SO FUN WHEN THE SHOES ON THE OTHER FOOT, IS IT?" Had a lot to do with it as well.

True. That's why I'm happy to be Norman. Even against a relative few Scandinavians like my ancestors, the French were quite willing to surrender the north of their country. We only had to sail up the Seine and burn Paris a couple of times.

Naw...she says arabs look too much like jews. Even the ashkeNAZIs, she says.

BTW you guys are also monobrows at least the ones living in the meadleeast part.
PFF franche people..god dame

Yep. Lots of over-six-foot 224-lbs. blue-eyed red-haired monobrows out there. (I would have done really well in a Nazi regime, and there would have been no "affirmative action" to limit my career choices. Sweet.)

...and here I thought you were Canadian.

^ You lost all credibility at the fourth word. As for Canada, that's where I work the door at club to finance my wilderness hiking trips. I'm sure your day is that much brighter for knowing that.

So...being of Abrahamic "dissent" (it's "descent", actually), have you ever been to your ancestral homeland of Iraq? You'd doubtless fit right in. Allahu-snackbar and all that.