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Tau Crisis Suit is probably the most versatile of the "elite" armies without going into vehicle spam.

There's also all-dread armies if you take a Librarian dread (or Bjorn if I remember) as your HQ and then use the Vangard Detachment. Even in normal marine armies you can make due with just a generic HQ and then spam Dreads. Nothing feels more satisfying than having a bunch of Icarus Turrets on legs.

Nidzilla is best done with actual monsters rather than Warriors. Warriors are not so much elite units, but cheap spammable synapse. Their true elite units are either the Warrior-derivatives (Such as the Zoanthrope) or the straight up monstrous creatures.

There is also the Destroyer Cult. Take a Destroyer Lord backed up by Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers in an Outrider Detachment. Destroyers are scarily fast this edition, although I think they lost some of their Ooomph with their higher point cost (and the shot reduction from last edition doesn't help either).

Finally, Eldar Aspect Warriors. They've been forgotten for a long time but some of them have become a lot more useful than before (most notably the Dark Rangers and Shining Spears). Which detachment you field will depend on which slots you need (Banshees and Scorps will need the Vanguard Detachment, Shining Spears need the Outriders, and so forth). They come with a good range of HQ choices since an Avatar is very fluffy (Court of Young Kings anyone?) while an Autarch can mimick your Exarches. Then there's the tried and true Farseer buffer.

Gwar! wrote:Huh, I had no idea Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines posted on Dakka. Hi Graham McNeillm Dav Torpe and Pete Haines!!!!!!!!!!!!! Can I have an Autograph!

Kanluwen wrote:Hell, I'm not that bothered by the Stormraven. Why? Because, as it stands right now, it's "limited use".When it's shoehorned in to the Codex: Space Marines, then yeah. I'll be irked.

When I'm editing alot, you know I have a gakload of homework to (not) do.

TheMostWize wrote:I have always enjoyed small elite and thematic type armies. Currently working on building a Grey Knight purifier force. Probably add some dreads or toss them all in landraiders and have a go.

That being said what other armies can field decent elite style armies?

Thinking somthing like Crisis Suit Tau? MC Tyranids?

I know the 8th edition meta isn't set but based on what you have been reading and seeing in your games.

Sisters of Battle are elite and very themeatic as well as being able to kick ass.

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

Crisis aren't bad, but are quite costly and must come in 3-men groups now, like in 6th; on the other hand, Commanders are better suited to be used in elite lists.
I'd leave Crisis to flamer work, homing beacon'ed by a Stealth Suit team

40k Dark Angels and future 30k Thousand Sons

Unit1126PLL wrote:"FW is unbalanced and going to ruin tournaments."
"Name one where it did that."
"IT JUST DOES OKAY!"

TheMostWize wrote:I have always enjoyed small elite and thematic type armies. Currently working on building a Grey Knight purifier force. Probably add some dreads or toss them all in landraiders and have a go.

That being said what other armies can field decent elite style armies?

Thinking somthing like Crisis Suit Tau? MC Tyranids?

I know the 8th edition meta isn't set but based on what you have been reading and seeing in your games.

Sisters of Battle are elite and very themeatic as well as being able to kick ass.

Like a lot of elite or bigger stuff, the issue is points vs. firepower. A simple anti-infantry suit with 2 burst cannons and advanced targeting system (-1 AP to all weapons) is 70 points. 8 shots, hits on 4s, wounds on 3s, reduces marines to 4+ save. So about 1.32 wounds. 2.64 vs orks, 2.297 vs guard. You can go cheaper by taking less weapons or support systems, but that seems nutty. taking 3 guns might slightly increase the numbers (against marines it doesn't, 1.307, but does against orks- 3.445), but generally the point cost goes up from there. A pair of missile pods and an ATS is nearly 100 points per suit, though surprisingly good against light vehicles.

Markerlights, of course, help but you really want a full 5 stack against targets, which pretty much requires a full pathfinder team, which is 70 more points, which can't skimp on the lights to take the rifle upgrades.

The fluff is like ketchup and mustard on a burger. Yes it's desirable, yes it makes things better, but no it doesn't fundamentally change what you're eating and no you shouldn't just drown the whole meal in it.

I am totally new and looking to build my first 40k army in a long time also. Therefore low model count is key simply from an affordability perspective.

I am narrowing the list down to the following ideas;

1) Ultramarines 'Primaries' built around Guilliman

2) Dark Angels Deathwing. Belial with DW Knights and Azrael in the backline with 3x Dreads

3) Imperial Knights army

After reviewing the book as a new player, and therefore in my inexperienced opinion I am leaning towards the Deathwing Army. Both special characters 'look cool' and they do cool things that I feel will have a big impact on the playstyle of the army. In all honestly I have no idea how best to use the Imperial Knights in list building.....haha

I really don't find Imperial Knights appropiate for a "cheap army". You need 4 for a 2.000 point army. With discounts at least in euros that comes down to something like 400€, so maybe 450$. You can have other "elite" armies to 2k points for cheaper. An example are deathwing yes.

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

I've started on my Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, so it's all Terminators, Veterans, Dreadnoughts and tanks for me! I missed the Biker Veterans on my first look through the Index Imperium - they're new, right? Effectively dual-wielding combi-weapons looks pretty beastly. I might have to get several squads... five combi-flamers to deal with hordes, five combi-plasma to deal with... well, anything, five combi-Melta to hunt big stuff, and five assorted melee weapons to be a mobile unit of 'knights'. I'm not sure what to do with my Terminators, though - I originally wanted two of each heavy weapon and a full squad each of LCs and THSS but then Cataphractii & Tartaros came along and I feel spoiled for choice...

lindsay40k wrote:I've started on my Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, so it's all Terminators, Veterans, Dreadnoughts and tanks for me! I missed the Biker Veterans on my first look through the Index Imperium - they're new, right? Effectively dual-wielding combi-weapons looks pretty beastly. I might have to get several squads... five combi-flamers to deal with hordes, five combi-plasma to deal with... well, anything, five combi-Melta to hunt big stuff, and five assorted melee weapons to be a mobile unit of 'knights'. I'm not sure what to do with my Terminators, though - I originally wanted two of each heavy weapon and a full squad each of LCs and THSS but then Cataphractii & Tartaros came along and I feel spoiled for choice...

Sounds awesome, Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, sounds really cool and would look great on the table.

Question: Cataphractii & Tartaros what is the benefit of using them over regular Terminators? I am reading Imperium 1 and they just seem worse off?

lindsay40k wrote:I've started on my Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, so it's all Terminators, Veterans, Dreadnoughts and tanks for me! I missed the Biker Veterans on my first look through the Index Imperium - they're new, right? Effectively dual-wielding combi-weapons looks pretty beastly. I might have to get several squads... five combi-flamers to deal with hordes, five combi-plasma to deal with... well, anything, five combi-Melta to hunt big stuff, and five assorted melee weapons to be a mobile unit of 'knights'. I'm not sure what to do with my Terminators, though - I originally wanted two of each heavy weapon and a full squad each of LCs and THSS but then Cataphractii & Tartaros came along and I feel spoiled for choice...

Sounds awesome, Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, sounds really cool and would look great on the table.

Question: Cataphractii & Tartaros what is the benefit of using them over regular Terminators? I am reading Imperium 1 and they just seem worse off?

cataphractii have a higher invul bonus,tartaros have a better move.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend

lindsay40k wrote:I've started on my Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, so it's all Terminators, Veterans, Dreadnoughts and tanks for me! I missed the Biker Veterans on my first look through the Index Imperium - they're new, right? Effectively dual-wielding combi-weapons looks pretty beastly. I might have to get several squads... five combi-flamers to deal with hordes, five combi-plasma to deal with... well, anything, five combi-Melta to hunt big stuff, and five assorted melee weapons to be a mobile unit of 'knights'. I'm not sure what to do with my Terminators, though - I originally wanted two of each heavy weapon and a full squad each of LCs and THSS but then Cataphractii & Tartaros came along and I feel spoiled for choice...

Sounds awesome, Tyrannical War Ultramarines 1st Co, sounds really cool and would look great on the table.

Question: Cataphractii & Tartaros what is the benefit of using them over regular Terminators? I am reading Imperium 1 and they just seem worse off?

It's situational, generally speaking the answer is no. however if you really want a squad of terminators to dig in on an area and hold it, cataphractis are gonna be a bit better. also in a points POV, standard termies are much much more efficant, HOWEVER if you want a lightning claw terminator squad, cataphractis are the cheaper option.

I imagine cataphractis would be pretty useful if you dropped em in cover on an objective, and ran em with 8 lightning claws, a heavy flamer a power fist, a grenade harness and dared a hrode enemy to come dislodge you.

Ultimately the power of an Inquisitor extends as far as he can make it extend

Yeah, I already built five Cataphractii with LCs, Flamer-Chainfist, LC-Chainfist. This was in 7ed - the last one is going to switch to twin LCs, and the rest of the squad will fall in line.

Generally going to drop them on an objective in no mans land or near some unprotected heavy firebase, throwing in an accompanying Librarian to give them re-roll charges to try a wolverine rushdown or Veil of Time to really laugh at charging hordes.

Tartaros will be split between a fireteam with two Reapers, focussing on T7 targets because that's their weird sweet spot, and a LC rushdown squad with a couple of Grenade Harnesses and a Volkite Charger & Chainfist making the most of Assault as they run to a charging position. Maybe switch VC for a Plasma Blaster, but I'd like to take a bit of everything.

Been drafting an army list, the Warlord is going to be a homemade special character, will use points values from Tartaros and Deathwatch to price his wargear up.

lindsay40k wrote:Yeah, I already built five Cataphractii with LCs, Flamer-Chainfist, LC-Chainfist. This was in 7ed - the last one is going to switch to twin LCs, and the rest of the squad will fall in line.

Generally going to drop them on an objective in no mans land or near some unprotected heavy firebase, throwing in an accompanying Librarian to give them re-roll charges to try a wolverine rushdown or Veil of Time to really laugh at charging hordes.

Tartaros will be split between a fireteam with two Reapers, focussing on T7 targets because that's their weird sweet spot, and a LC rushdown squad with a couple of Grenade Harnesses and a Volkite Charger & Chainfist making the most of Assault as they run to a charging position. Maybe switch VC for a Plasma Blaster, but I'd like to take a bit of everything.

Been drafting an army list, the Warlord is going to be a homemade special character, will use points values from Tartaros and Deathwatch to price his wargear up.

Working on a dreadmob Ork list currently for my next army. At 2k points which is where my group mostly plays at I can field two spear head detachments (the heavy support one) 2 meks as HQs and then use all the slots for 21 killakans and 3 deff dreads. It seems like it will be fun! Most likely will be rotating in things like gorkanauts and morkanauts if needed.

Civilization is the progress toward a society of privacy. The savage's whole existence is public, ruled by the laws of his tribe. Civilization is the process of setting man free from men.

i have never played 40k more then a few small 500p games in 7th, so i am basicly brand new to the system.

i have however no patience to paint big number of models so i was wondering if for a totaly casual playstyle a tau force of only mec suits(maybe 1 hammerhead in there) can be playable in the 500-1000p range(dont know what that is in the new powr score system)

i know that wont leave me whit many actual models on the table vsa traditional army whit infantry, but considering the small point scale i am aiming for and only casual gameing, can it work?