No, we're saying (as well as several well documented scientific researchers) that driving stoned does not impair the driver the same way alcohol does, and unlike driving drunk, the driver is more likely to recognize their impairment and drive less recklessly or, even better, not drive at all. Some of us in this thread know this from personal experience, but rather than depend solely on anecdotal evidence, scientific evidence has been presented that back up this assertion. You, however, have nothing but an assertion and not even a shred of anecdotal evidence to back it up, all the while calling everybody idiots and ignoring every attempt to discuss the matter like adults.

Not a single person here has said everybody should just drive stoned. We're just saying it's an order of magnitude less of an issue than driving drunk.

“One hypothesis is that it’s just safer to drive under the influence of marijuana than it is drunk,” Rees says. “Drunk drivers take more risk, they tend to go faster. They don’t realize how impaired they are. People who are under the influence of marijuana drive slower, they don’t take as many risks.”The other theory, Rees says, is that people smoking marijuana simply don’t go out as much.

He then asked a legit question and Ale responded with silliness again. Maybe I'm not aware of Brett's posting history, but dogging someone throughout a thread where he's done nothing wrong reeks of lynch mob mentality. At least Fool engaged in dialogue and discussion. Then admittedly, Brett goes off the rails a bit.

No, we're saying (as well as several well documented scientific researchers) that driving stoned does not impair the driver the same way alcohol does, and unlike driving drunk, the driver is more likely to recognize their impairment and drive less recklessly or, even better, not drive at all. Some of us in this thread know this from personal experience, but rather than depend solely on anecdotal evidence, scientific evidence has been presented that back up this assertion. You, however, have nothing but an assertion and not even a shred of anecdotal evidence to back it up, all the while calling everybody idiots and ignoring every attempt to discuss the matter like adults.

Not a single person here has said everybody should just drive stoned. We're just saying it's an order of magnitude less of an issue than driving drunk.

Yes the response from Alefroth at the beginning of this whole discussion asking why I hate recreation when I was stating my opinion of using recreational drugs to get high was certainly an adult response .

He then asked a legit question and Ale responded with silliness again. Maybe I'm not aware of Brett's posting history, but dogging someone throughout a thread where he's done nothing wrong reeks of lynch mob mentality. At least Fool engaged in dialogue and discussion. Then admittedly, Brett goes off the rails a bit.

I agree with both sides on the fact that one should not be impaired while driving from anything. That being said, I believe the tests have proven that drunk driving is the worst of the two. Also, there has not ever been a single death from marajuana. Ever. In a country where they profit off of death like they do with cigarettes, it is absurd to have marajuana illegal. Yes, I said absurd. Also, comparing alcohol to thc doesn't make sense either. Alcohol is literally a poison, the other not so much...

That how I see it. This is coming from someone who used to enjoy pot, currently loves brewing/drinking good beers, and wants desperately to quit tobacco. Further more, quite paying taxes for tobacco.

I agree with both sides on the fact that one should not be impaired while driving from anything. That being said, I believe the tests have proven that drunk driving is the worst of the two. Also, there has not ever been a single death from marajuana. Ever. In a country where they profit off of death like they do with cigarettes, it is absurd to have marajuana illegal. Yes, I said absurd. Also, comparing alcohol to thc doesn't make sense either. Alcohol is literally a poison, the other not so much...

That how I see it. This is coming from someone who used to enjoy pot, currently loves brewing/drinking good beers, and wants desperately to quit tobacco. Further more, quite paying taxes for tobacco.

This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death. - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.mDyd1OEM.eE5xnOKU.dpuf

Links in there about how pot contains many of the same cancer causing agents as tobacco, it leads to increased risks of other types of cancer and other such things.

And no single person who was stoned has ever driven and gotten into an accident that killed themselves or someone else? That's quite a bold claim you are making.

If you smoke it, yes, those carcinogens are, in fact, there, but two points:

Volume- tobacco smokers smoke exponentially more amounts of tobacco than pot smokers smoke pot. In fact, the tobacco companies chemically enhance their products to ensure this. Risk is drastically lessened due to this

There are other methods of ingesting pot that don't release carcinogens like smoking does- vaporization, edibles, etc. The cancerous properties come from combusting it.

As for the claim- back yours up, we have ours. Again, all you have is assumptions.

He doesnt need to back up claims with facts when he has self-righteous indignation as a weapon! Hes welcome to throw out what ever bs arguments he wants but the fact remains. There are no deaths caused by the chemical compound THC. There are millions of recorded deaths caused by both nicotine and alcohol. It is very likely that there have been fatalities caused by driving under the influence of marijuana, though I am, personally,not aware of any. Im aware of plenty of fatalities caused by driving under the influence of alcohol. As well as cell phone use and texting. Anything that can distract you from paying full attention while driving has the risk of causing an accident. Heres the difference. While it is possible that driving while under the influence of marijuana may cause an accident, It is probable while driving drunk. That doesnt mean people should drive under the influence of anything. I havent seen one person suggest that driving under the influence of marijuana is ok. They have pointed out correctly that it incurs less risk than driving under the influence of alcohol but no one has suggested that its ok to do so.

Links in there about how pot contains many of the same cancer causing agents as tobacco, it leads to increased risks of other types of cancer and other such things.

And no single person who was stoned has ever driven and gotten into an accident that killed themselves or someone else? That's quite a bold claim you are making.

If you smoke it, yes, those carcinogens are, in fact, there, but two points:

Volume- tobacco smokers smoke exponentially more amounts of tobacco than pot smokers smoke pot. In fact, the tobacco companies chemically enhance their products to ensure this. Risk is drastically lessened due to this

There are other methods of ingesting pot that don't release carcinogens like smoking does- vaporization, edibles, etc. The cancerous properties come from combusting it.

As for the claim- back yours up, we have ours. Again, all you have is assumptions.

How do the vast majority of people use pot? They smoke it, so what happens when people do that is part of the discussion, you just can't hand wave it away by saying there are other ways to use pot.

Also nice job ignoring what I posted, about how use of pot increases your risk for other cancers as well. But what this comes down to is that you are making a claim that is impossible, that not a single person has ever died in human history because of using pot. If you want to say its less dangerous or harmful then tobacco or alcohol I will completely agree with you. But that's not the claim you made, you claimed zero ever, which is once again bullshit as anyone could easily find police reports of people who were arrested for driving under the influence of pot and were involved in an accident that killed a person.

Do you read or comprehend anything anyone else has said, Brettmc? Once again no one has claimed that there hasnt been a single death caused by driving under the influence of pot. Everyone has agreed that doing so is not a good idea and yet you keep harping on it as if youre making some major revelation. So lets get one thing clear: WE ALL AGREE THAT DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF DRUGS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. It has been medically proven that the active ingredients in marijuana, mainly THC and cannibidnoids have caused no deaths by and of themselves. That can not be said about either alcohol or nicotine. If you smoke pretty much anything, you will take in carcinogens, which have been proven to be a leading cause of cancer. This can happen from smoking cigars, cigarettes, herbal compounds, marijuana and even breathing in campfire smoke or smoke from burning leaves. I myself am a legally carded patient with approval to use marijuana medicinally. I do not smoke it. In fact most of the people I know who use it legally, do not smoke it. These days using an herbal vaporizer is the preferred method. This completely eliminates the tars and carcinogens and has been found to be safe from any of the negative effects from using marijuana through combustion. Before I could use marijuana legally, I was on a regimen of Vicoden and antispasmodics, to handle my symptoms. After a few years of that started having serious detrimental effects on my body, my doctor recommended and approved medicinal marijuana. It has been a god send. I was leery because I also have asthma and smoking would not have worked for me, but vaporization has done wonders for my health in controlling my symptoms. I do enjoy the "high" from marijuana. If you go by the government propaganda, you have absolutely no clue what it is like. While I dont know a single person that has had a hallucinogenic experience with pot, unless it was laced with something, it can apparently affect some people that way. For most it creates a calming, mellow, relaxing buzz and often has an "expanded consciousness" effect. This is why it is so popular among musicians and artists. It expands the mind. Unfortunately it also expands the appetite, which can expand the waistline but thats a whole 'nother issue. I have never seen or known anyone who has died through the use of marijuana, whether directly or though an auto accident. I cannot say that about either booze or alcohol. In fact the only thing Ive seen pot kill is a family sized bag of chips.

Now I have regaled you with both factual and personal views regarding the use of marijuana. Youre welcome to consider me an "idiot" for my position because while I may attempt to educate fools who make incorrect blanket statements and generalizations without any substantive basis for their statements, I have no desire to further fight a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Do you read or comprehend anything anyone else has said, Brettmc? Once again no one has claimed that there hasnt been a single death caused by driving under the influence of pot. Everyone has agreed that doing so is not a good idea and yet you keep harping on it as if youre making some major revelation. So lets get one thing clear: WE ALL AGREE THAT DRIVING UNDER THE INFLUENCE OF DRUGS IS NOT A GOOD IDEA. It has been medically proven that the active ingredients in marijuana, mainly THC and cannibidnoids have caused no deaths by and of themselves. That can not be said about either alcohol or nicotine. If you smoke pretty much anything, you will take in carcinogens, which have been proven to be a leading cause of cancer. This can happen from smoking cigars, cigarettes, herbal compounds, marijuana and even breathing in campfire smoke or smoke from burning leaves. I myself am a legally carded patient with approval to use marijuana medicinally. I do not smoke it. In fact most of the people I know who use it legally, do not smoke it. These days using an herbal vaporizer is the preferred method. This completely eliminates the tars and carcinogens and has been found to be safe from any of the negative effects from using marijuana through combustion. Before I could use marijuana legally, I was on a regimen of Vicoden and antispasmodics, to handle my symptoms. After a few years of that started having serious detrimental effects on my body, my doctor recommended and approved medicinal marijuana. It has been a god send. I was leery because I also have asthma and smoking would not have worked for me, but vaporization has done wonders for my health in controlling my symptoms. I do enjoy the "high" from marijuana. If you go by the government propaganda, you have absolutely no clue what it is like. While I dont know a single person that has had a hallucinogenic experience with pot, unless it was laced with something, it can apparently affect some people that way. For most it creates a calming, mellow, relaxing buzz and often has an "expanded consciousness" effect. This is why it is so popular among musicians and artists. It expands the mind. Unfortunately it also expands the appetite, which can expand the waistline but thats a whole 'nother issue. I have never seen or known anyone who has died through the use of marijuana, whether directly or though an auto accident. I cannot say that about either booze or alcohol. In fact the only thing Ive seen pot kill is a family sized bag of chips.

Now I have regaled you with both factual and personal views regarding the use of marijuana. Youre welcome to consider me an "idiot" for my position because while I may attempt to educate fools who make incorrect blanket statements and generalizations without any substantive basis for their statements, I have no desire to further fight a battle of wits with an unarmed man.

Yes people have said that pot has caused zero deaths ever.

Quote

Also, there has not ever been a single death from marajuana. Ever.

Quote

Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death.

These are the claims I call bullshit on, as if you are under the influence of pot or alcohol and that causes you to kill yourself or someone else in a car accident then yes pot or alcohol helped cause that death. As I said before you want to claim its less hazardous to your health then tobacco or alcohol, I will 100% agree with you, but when a bullshit claim is made like no one in human history has died from pot I will call that person on it.

And I fully support medical uses of pot, if it can help a person with a medical condition then it is like no other drug we use to treat illnesses.

As for the its only dangerous if you smoke it part, most people who use pot do smoke it from everything I have read. Unless that changes you can't just ignore that part of the issue as well.

Did brett just inadvertently make an argument for gun control during this discussion?

Nope, your understanding of a discussion is as confused as ever.

Sorry, didn't mean to draw your attention away from the ass whuppin' you're currently getting. If you think about the arguments you're attempting to use (edit: prior to your clumsy attempt to change the parameters of the discussion so that it's now a zero sum debate, that is) to make your point, you'll eventually get it.

« Last Edit: August 26, 2013, 11:44:34 PM by hepcat »

Logged

Warning: You will see my penis. -Brian

Just remember: once a user figures out gluten noting them they're allowed to make fun of you. - Ceekay speaking in tongues.

Did brett just inadvertently make an argument for gun control during this discussion?

Nope, your understanding of a discussion is as confused as ever.

Sorry, didn't mean to draw your attention away from the ass whuppin' you're currently getting. If you think about the arguments you're attempting to use (edit: prior to your clumsy attempt to change the parameters of the discussion so that it's now a zero sum debate, that is) to make your point, you'll eventually get it.

Didn't know I was calling for drugs to be illegal because of what people do under the influence of them.

This is a remarkable statement. First, the record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 years of human experience. Second, marijuana is now used daily by enormous numbers of people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible medical reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death. - See more at: http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Causes_of_Death#sthash.mDyd1OEM.eE5xnOKU.dpuf

Thanks th fool! I don't have the patience to explain everything, or anything sometimes. Probably because I smoked in my 20's. and wow brettmcd you sure are quick to blindly lash out at people for NO REASON and zero info to back up your claims. Lets play nice! Sorry, is that a side effect as well, you know kindness?

When there is an auto accident caused because someone was talking on a cell phone, do you claim cell phones cause death? Because they dont, the persons choice to drive while talking on a phone does. Its the same while driving impaired, regardless of the source of impairment. Its not the drug that causes the fatality, its the choice to drive under its influence. When someone drives drunk and then crashes their car and dies, they didnt die from alcohol poisoning they died from trauma directly related to the accident. The alcohol likely helped cause the accident but it is not the cause of death.

I am not directing this at brettmc, this is for clarification for others involved in this discussion. I dont believe brettmc is capable of understanding the logic here, so brettmc, feel free to ignore it, as its clearly beyond your capacity to understand.

That is the biggest attempt at mental gymnastics I have ever seen, you get a 10 from even the east german judge. You want to do whatever you can to keep up your bullshit claim that pot has never harmed a single person in human history.

The accident was caused by the person being intoxicated, but the substance they are intoxicated from is not in any way to blame for their death.... I am sure lots of people who got convicted of killing someone while drunk driving and got a longer sentence because of that would be interested in your logic.