if the herbs are a major part of the beer and individually noticeable, I'd go with 21A. I think of 16E as the Belgian version of 23 - where it doesn't fit into just one other category. Like combining chocolate/fruit/oak aging on a stout, having all of the above noticeable, and moving it to 23. Note that many people disagree with me here and point to the guidelines. "Note that many spice-based Belgian specialties may be entered in Category 16E." - to me the key words are Belgian Specialties. If the beer was 16E without the herbs it is still 16E. But if it is a classic style base with herbs I put it in 21A, just like if it was a robust porter with herbs or a American pale ale with herbs.

of course, if the herbs just added a little to the overall spicy nature of the beer and blend in well, I might enter as a straight saison, 16C.

tl;dr: you'll get a lot of different opinions on possible 16E placement.

although I kinda miss watching the numbers go up. "17 minutes and Seattle is half full!"

If it helps at all, we've had ~800 entrants register today in a very leisurely way. We expect about 3X that amount total for the competition by the end of the week. I'm really happy about how well this has gone so far.

Cheers,Janis

Thank you Janis; wouldn't mind seeing that number a couple more times this week if you get the time to post.

question about deadlines... I see the shipping deadline. I see the period where we'll find out how many we can enter and have 3 days to pay. What about the deadline to finalize your entries? Since we are not finding out entry numbers until February, and since the maximum number is much smaller than it's ever been, a brewer needs to be really sure their beer is good. With that in mind I'm vetting my many possible entries in another competition first. Will I have time to get the results of that competition - in this case, Feb 22nd - before I have to finalize which of my entries are my best shot at fortune and glory?

Hey all I have entered some comps also. My first at an Octoberfest in 2012 and got a first and best of show for a chili ale and got a free entry into the national Comp in Philly last year. didn't do as well in the one in Philly but the feed back was priceless in helping me develop my Chile ale more. Also have entered a few others with varing results but my best I think was a comp in Philly last fall for a milk stout that got me a first and best of show and is going to be brewed at Nodding Head in Philly in a few weeks.

so if it happens (a lottery) it seems more likely that 7/8 club members would get picked, than 3/8. There is an excellent chance the other person can do what I did last year - contact a ticket seller, send 'em some $, they contact the AHA to have it transferred, and you're in the NHC.

...let's give this a chance to play out. if it is a disaster, I'll be right with you at the front of the line loading the Molotov cocktail into our homemade catapult.

BIAB definitely comes with way, way more trub. It's especially a problem if you mill too finely and get a lot of flour in your grist. I don't know what the magical solution is, I'm still thinking through it, but it seems building in the loss to deadspace in the recipe and leaving behind what settles out in the kettle will help out with that process.

I do BIAB quite often. There is certainly a lot of trub. I've had good results over-chilling, racking everything to a fermenter (Better Bottle with spigot) and letting it settle there. Wife and I go to lunch and afterwards I rack off the half gallon or so of trub into a second fermenter.

many a person has asked why I don't just use some sort of pickup device in the kettle that keeps that trub out. I dunno - this just works, and I like being able to see into the fermenter to how it is settling. No opening a kettle lid or trying to seal the hole in the lid my chiller goes through. Just watch the level of trub drop, set the spigot pickup to right above that when I'm satisfied, and rack. Occasionally I even recapture the leftover wort and save some for my next starter, even though it's not an ideal yeast growing environment.

...many ways to skin this particular cat. Given the crappy weather for about 2/3 of the year, I was very pleased to discover BIAB some years ago and haven't gotten frostbite/heatstroke since.

I'll put a vote in for the NHC 2013 Gold Medal 3B recipe.Just an amazing beer. We struggled with the lack of toastiness and complexity, but in the end decided it fit perfectly in the "Domestic German versions tend to be golden, like a strong Pils-dominated Helles" part of the guidelines and in the medal round it kicked butt. anyway if you're interested the recipe is obviously in Zymurgy.5 lbs Weyermann floor malted bo pils4 lbs Weyermann light munich3 lbs Weyermann Viennahe did do a decoction.

can you think of a beer that has the mouthfeel you're looking for?I think of creaminess as a hallmark of many stouts. Not so much with a classic robust porter. Founders is pretty creamy and rich though I think of it as out of style. But who cares about style; you want a good beer. anyway I second that you'll likely have to mash warmer to get close to what you want with this.

Non long necks should be ok. A long as if fits "correctly" in the case box. Judges will make a mental note if you use anything other than a long neck that matches what you buy at the home brew store (you may have just lost a point). Some judges will even make a "I didn't know anchor made a xyz beer" comment. A passive aggressive way of saying this is nationals, bring it strong, don't cheap out, no excuses.

If a judge is taking a point off because of bottle type someone needs to slap them around a bit

I sometimes make a note of the bottle or cap type, mostly to give the entrant confirmation that it is indeed his beer that I am judging. It's got nothing to do with score.

I like when a judge gives me this sort of confirmation, be it noticing that it was a stubby/Belgian bottle, the SA logo, or perhaps that the fill level was high. These things happen often enough in any competition that anonymity is preserved.

We've also got a skilled brewer who puts extremely colorful caps on all his bottles. That's how he tells stuff apart at a glance in his basement. It was fine the first time, but now I know it is his beer when I see it. Fitting in case boxes aside, that's what we need to avoid.

I agree that it probably won't change the minds of these people... Many of them are seemingly irrationally angry about changes the AHA has gone through. But I think it could benefit potential new members who hear all the negative things but maybe not as much positive things about the AHA... Just food for thought it all. I really just figured it already existed and I could just brush up on it... But then I couldn't find much info.

I actually agree with what you seem to be suggesting. I'm just not as optimistic as others that such effort will bear much fruit in terms of swaying the irrationally angry you mention. But some more details can't hurt.

I recall reading a HBT thread last month re: the 6-entry limit and limiting entries to AHA members. There are clearly some non-AHA members who think they make up a sizeable portion of the entries, when people like Tom have stated repeatedly that they are a very small number. Perhaps giving the actual number of non-AHA member entries would show that the change some have made a big deal about isn't much of a change at all - details.