Agree, but so do all the rest of the guilty players over a season. No club is immune from players running in. Two players left alone to square up is better than another eight charging in like wild bulls. Also, some forum members on here say they enjoy some biff! Which way do we want the game to be played? And I know the odd handbags swipe cannot be compared to sly play.

Agree, but so do all the rest of the guilty players over a season. No club is immune from players running in. Two players left alone to square up is better than another eight charging in like wild bulls. Also, some forum members on here say they enjoy some biff! Which way do we want the game to be played? And I know the odd handbags swipe cannot be compared to sly play.

I'm up for two players squaring up , brought up on Boyd, Tamati and Jackson so it's a pleasure one on one, running in really is annoying.

Please note I'm not having a pop at you or saints, I'm just pee'd off with players running in and thinking their ten men.

I tell you what, I'd rather see a bit of biff than 10 second play the balls courtesy of the Nathan Brown school of coaching.

The whole game is made duller by the blatant lying on. It doesn't reward good tackling, it rewards all tackling and means that there is next to no broken play. Almost all Widnes ball today was against a structured and set St Helens line. Fair enough if they had dominated the tackle but this happened whether they had or they hadn't.

From the reaction of the Saints fans and players, I suspect the Cross incident was pretty bad, I was too far away to see it. I'd like to see how he justified sin binning Clarke and nobody else. It was like I said earlier, he seemed to revel in the animosity and what better way to prove that the crowd haven't influenced your decisions by being 'brave' enough to send off 2 players from one side and none from another. The easier, more crowd appeasing decision would have been Cross off and then 1 player from each sin-binned.

As it happened it was crucial for more than one reason. We look much stronger when we have Cross and O'Carroll on and they had literally just been rotated and come back on. So not only were we down to 11 and then 12 men but we didn't get the impact of fresh legs, instead having to bring the tired legs back on.

I said something similar when we played c@s in a friendly. I said god help them this season in SL and look what they did today against the rhinos. Never say neverí ½í¸‰

It's hard to verbalise how poor Saints were in attack. They had literally set after set on our line and were regularly marched up the field. I think they only got to the kick twice in the first half. Regardless of the improvements we have made in defence, a team like Saints should be able to convert that territory and field position into points against a team that at best will scrape into the playoffs.

As it turned out, they only scored after a third set on our line against 11 players and as you would expect it was caused by sheer weight of numbers. Their one other try against reduced numbers was from a poor offload that went to ground in our own 30 and they capitalised from. The first half try was the result of being marched up the field and having a set on our line after a long period of 'pressure.'

Put it this way, with that amount of territory and possession and then playing against 11/12 I suspect Wigan or Wire would have been in the 30/40 range. That's not being disrespectful to Widnes who defended well either, it's just sheer weight of force.

"Surly Wigan"? Seems a bit rough getting a slagging off over a game we weren't involved in. I am sure I was not alone in assuming Hock was involved in the mass brawl. Maybe next week when we loan him to Saints' next opponents.

However, in spite of my team being unable to string together a decent attacking move all match, our defence was much improved on last week. Well, to be fair, it could hardly have been any worse.

It's not how you start the season; it's how you finish. Maybe this year we are modelling ourselves on the Rhinos, who often look garbage during the season but always manage to pull off a grand final win.

However, in spite of my team being unable to string together a decent attacking move all match, our defence was much improved on last week. Well, to be fair, it could hardly have been any worse.

It's not how you start the season; it's how you finish. Maybe this year we are modelling ourselves on the Rhinos, who often look garbage during the season but always manage to pull off a grand final win.

Your defence was much improved because a) you were allowed to lie on for a ridiculous amount of time meaning that Widnes never gained momentum, you faced very few sets in your attacking 20 and c) Widnes didn't have much go forward.

I can't see another referee being so lenient with the slowing tactics, I also suspect that if the field position and possession was reversed Widnes would have scored more than 16 points.

Your defence was much improved because a) you were allowed to lie on for a ridiculous amount of time meaning that Widnes never gained momentum, you faced very few sets in your attacking 20 and c) Widnes didn't have much go forward.