Hah, I like the comments "oh when Apple does it it's terrible, now when Google does it it's cool?" I remember when Apple maps issues were coming to light, and this one surfaced, they all said "Google does it too!" and in their defense they were right, because this is the least significant issue ever, but don't pretend it wasn't brought up and discussed previously.

Slaxl:Hah, I like the comments "oh when Apple does it it's terrible, now when Google does it it's cool?" I remember when Apple maps issues were coming to light, and this one surfaced, they all said "Google does it too!" and in their defense they were right, because this is the least significant issue ever, but don't pretend it wasn't brought up and discussed previously.

Apple's problem is that a lot of the locations in Apple Maps aren't where they should be. For instance, my local Morton's is located nearly half a mile away from its location shown in Apple Maps. Graphical glitches can be forgiven. Graphical glitches in addition to bad mapping data? Yeah, that's more of a problem.

RexTalionis:Slaxl: Hah, I like the comments "oh when Apple does it it's terrible, now when Google does it it's cool?" I remember when Apple maps issues were coming to light, and this one surfaced, they all said "Google does it too!" and in their defense they were right, because this is the least significant issue ever, but don't pretend it wasn't brought up and discussed previously.

Apple's problem is that a lot of the locations in Apple Maps aren't where they should be. For instance, my local Morton's is located nearly half a mile away from its location shown in Apple Maps. Graphical glitches can be forgiven. Graphical glitches in addition to bad mapping data? Yeah, that's more of a problem.

Not to mention the well-known story of the Australian city of Mildura, which Apple Maps decided to place 70 kilometers away in the middle of the outback, causing a lot of stranded travelers. When it's just a graphical glitch, that's easy to laugh at and then go on your merry way. It's different when you wind up at the wrong location because the map data you relied on is glitched.

RexTalionis:Slaxl: Hah, I like the comments "oh when Apple does it it's terrible, now when Google does it it's cool?" I remember when Apple maps issues were coming to light, and this one surfaced, they all said "Google does it too!" and in their defense they were right, because this is the least significant issue ever, but don't pretend it wasn't brought up and discussed previously.

Apple's problem is that a lot of the locations in Apple Maps aren't where they should be. For instance, my local Morton's is located nearly half a mile away from its location shown in Apple Maps. Graphical glitches can be forgiven. Graphical glitches in addition to bad mapping data? Yeah, that's more of a problem.

Apples problem is that they build, package, and sell pretentiousness. So, it's a big when they fail.

Maybe it's because I work frequently with geocoding in GIS, but this does not seem like an egregious error to me. Mapping locations based on address is subject to the variability in how address numbers change along a path. There are lots of very good geocoders out there, but none of them are going to be perfect. Heck, when I did a geocoding exercise with my students here at UK using Google and the football stadium ranged from being unmappable, to located correctly, to being located on the other side of town. The Mildura example is quite a bit more baffling as there should be distinct lat/long coordinated for towns, cities, villages, etc. It looks like there may have been some sloppy location data collection and verification.

RexTalionis:Slaxl: Hah, I like the comments "oh when Apple does it it's terrible, now when Google does it it's cool?" I remember when Apple maps issues were coming to light, and this one surfaced, they all said "Google does it too!" and in their defense they were right, because this is the least significant issue ever, but don't pretend it wasn't brought up and discussed previously.

Apple's problem is that a lot of the locations in Apple Maps aren't where they should be. For instance, my local Morton's is located nearly half a mile away from its location shown in Apple Maps. Graphical glitches can be forgiven. Graphical glitches in addition to bad mapping data? Yeah, that's more of a problem.

No, Slaxl is right - in some of the Apple Maps threads, people were specifically complaining about 3D warping of images. There was even a screenshot that got posted, showing Apple's maps with a highway dipping in the same way as in the article.

You're right in that the bad mapping data was the actual problem, but he's right in that people used that excuse to bring up every problem, including this one, whether specific to Apple maps or not.

rmcooper4:The Mildura example is quite a bit more baffling as there should be distinct lat/long coordinated for towns, cities, villages, etc. It looks like there may have been some sloppy location data collection and verification.

Actually, that one appears to be because of the way they encode counties: the pinpoint is at the center of the Mildura district, while the town of Mildura is off-center within its region. You can get the same sort of thing here in the states, if a town and county have the same name, but the town is significantly offset from the center of the county.Ideally, the counties should be encoded as regions rather than points, and secondly, the search should default to the city or town over the county or district name... but it's not exactly sloppy data collection as poorly designed parameters for even accurate data collection.

Theaetetus:You're right in that the bad mapping data was the actual problem, but he's right in that people used that excuse to bring up every problem, including this one, whether specific to Apple maps or not.

Hey you with your rational and well considered posts! You have no place in a fanboi/fandroid flame war!

flaminio:Theaetetus: You're right in that the bad mapping data was the actual problem, but he's right in that people used that excuse to bring up every problem, including this one, whether specific to Apple maps or not.

Hey you with your rational and well considered posts! You have no place in a fanboi/fandroid flame war!

It's funny that I can be called anti-Apple in one thread and an Apple shill in another. I think that means I'm doing it right.

Theaetetus:You're right in that the bad mapping data was the actual problem, but he's right in that people used that excuse to bring up every problem, including this one, whether specific to Apple maps or not.

I think it's one of those things that should be considered in its totality. Sure, Google Maps has visual glitches just like Apple maps, but Apple maps does have some seriously bafflingly odd mapping data problems that go beyond simply blaming misplaced county and city locations or bad geocoding. For instance:

That last one is especially weird - how bad can your Geocoding be if Lexington Avenue is in Brooklyn?

Plus, there's one where Chinese road signs started appear in the middle of the English countryside that I cannot find a screenshot of.

Plus, for some reason, I've had some peculiar route-finding algorithm failures in Apple Maps that is just strange - like the 6 mile trip that took 35 minutes of circuitous backwoods travel as opposed to just getting on the major highway and driving 6 minutes down it.

Er, looks like Fark didn't like my other pictures. One of them is Stockholm apparently being located hundreds of kilometers away in the middle of nowhere, the other is one of an address in Manhattan relocating to Brooklyn.

RexTalionis:Er, looks like Fark didn't like my other pictures. One of them is Stockholm apparently being located hundreds of kilometers away in the middle of nowhere, the other is one of an address in Manhattan relocating to Brooklyn.

RexTalionis:Theaetetus: RexTalionis: That last one is especially weird - how bad can your Geocoding be if Lexington Avenue is in Brooklyn?

I don't know, ask Google?

Okay, never mind on that one.

:P

I think my point above stands... There are some errors with Apple's Maps app, and then people use those as an excuse to latch on to every error or imagined error and blame Apple, whether exclusive to Apple's Maps or not.

I think the picture shows a guy standing at around 571 Lexington Ave in Manhattan and doing a search for 571 Lexington Ave, NY in Apple Maps and getting a result in Brooklyn. Granted, there is a 571 Lexington Avenue in Brooklyn, but the fact that Apple maps took him to the one in Brooklyn and not the one that he was standing in front of seem to be purely an Apple Maps error.

I think the picture shows a guy standing at around 571 Lexington Ave in Manhattan and doing a search for 571 Lexington Ave, NY in Apple Maps and getting a result in Brooklyn. Granted, there is a 571 Lexington Avenue in Brooklyn, but the fact that Apple maps took him to the one in Brooklyn and not the one that he was standing in front of seem to be purely an Apple Maps error.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maoags9o9Y1rhptwbo1_500.png

Although, I believe I've seen the same picture but 10 seconds earlier, with a pop-up saying "Did you mean Lexington Ave, Manhattan; Lexington Ave, Brooklyn; or Lexington Ave., Staten Island?" which is what both Apple and Google's maps should do.

I think the picture shows a guy standing at around 571 Lexington Ave in Manhattan and doing a search for 571 Lexington Ave, NY in Apple Maps and getting a result in Brooklyn. Granted, there is a 571 Lexington Avenue in Brooklyn, but the fact that Apple maps took him to the one in Brooklyn and not the one that he was standing in front of seem to be purely an Apple Maps error.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_maoags9o9Y1rhptwbo1_500.png

Although, I believe I've seen the same picture but 10 seconds earlier, with a pop-up saying "Did you mean Lexington Ave, Manhattan; Lexington Ave, Brooklyn; or Lexington Ave., Staten Island?" which is what both Apple and Google's maps should do.

Again, I'll retract that example, but there are plenty of examples to make the point.

I think the real problem is that Google has had basically almost a decade perfecting their maps technology. When Google Maps acquired Keyhole and started their maps initiative, they had plenty of problems in the beginning, too, of a similar nature. The problem is that Google has basically smoothed over most of the possible errors with their armies of GIS people and Street View vehicles, as well as crowdsourced map fixes.

Apple doesn't have any of that and they decided they can replicate it with what is essentially beta software with lots of bugs and lots of errors, without devoting the time to fix it before launch. And Apple Maps suffers for that comparison. It's not that it's terrible, but it's nowhere near as good.

RexTalionis:Not to mention the well-known story of the Australian city of Mildura, which Apple Maps decided to place 70 kilometers away in the middle of the outback, causing a lot of stranded travelers. When it's just a graphical glitch, that's easy to laugh at and then go on your merry way. It's different when you wind up at the wrong location because the map data you relied on is glitched.