I can't see Foreman being on any kind of P4P list Heckler, with all due respect. A heavyweight version of Fullmer who had strength, chin, inside fighting ability and stamina would have killed him. LaMotta, Cerdan, Ketchel, or any of those tough guys with a chin, high workrate, and stamina would have withstood those early bombs and taken him out late in any kind of P4P marchup. Foreman's style worked for him because he was a heavyweight, one of the biggest of his era, but he wouldn't have had nearly as much success if he was a middleweight or smaller.

I may be alone here but I think Foreman is highly overrated these days. I think he's a top ten heavyweight champion but I don't list him in my top five. P4P he would probably not make my top forty. Stamina is, and always will be, one of the most important assets a fighter can possess and Foreman lacked it in his prime big time.

Fair enough Kid. Its not necessarily a p4p List. I think Foreman deserves to be on my list because i sincerely believe that only one boxer in history could beat him (73-74), and that boxer did beat him. I believe him to be the closest thing to invincible boxing has seen and thus i have him in my top 10.

Frazier's 15th round

03-26-2006, 03:55 AM

Invincible? Ali and Young made him look like a fool. Pretty much anybody who boxed and moved a little bit gave him problems.

Heckler

03-26-2006, 04:00 AM

As usual you are being simplistic. The fighter that young beat differed from the fighter that Ali beat. He was hesitant, emotionally damaged, trying to adapt a measured style that didn't suit him. The notion that any clever boxer could give Foreman problems is ridiculous, did Ali move? could he move? No, because Foreman was too profficent at cutting off the ring. Ali did what no others could, he sat on the ropes and let Foreman throw shots at will until he tired.

lol, we have been through this before Yogi. My view on this is set in stone, the best version of foreman was Pre-rumble in the jungle.
Physically he was still fine, but mentally he was not all together.

Dempsey1238

03-26-2006, 08:32 AM

yeah I agree a heavyweight Fullmer, could beat Foreman. Foreman is over rated pound for pound.

This list is so close to my own that I'll endorse it with 1 or 2 changes.

I wouldn't put Ali ahead of Joe Louis. Ali dominated his division in 1964 through 1967 but after his comeback he was really more like 1st among equals. Louis stood alone on top for much longer.

I just can't include Bernard Hopkins in spite of his longevity as champion. He did too much running and clinching sometimes. In his place I would put Gene Tunney. Tunney's career was nothing short of brilliant from start to finish. He lost only twice, both times to Harry Greb, but he defeated Greb 3 times, including a 1-sided thrashing in their 5th and final fight. I was never a Gene Tunney fan until I took a closer look at his career. I was a Jack Dempsey fan and Tunney was the "bad guy" ;) . Tunney's an acquired taste for me as a boxing fan, but I just can't overlook him.

The whole rest of the list is fantastic, filled with immortal greats that combined great skill with the heart of a warrior.

well, I just saw a compilation of video clips of Bernard Hopkins fights, starting with his fight in 1993 with Roy Jones, then his fights with Bo James, Glencoffe Johnson, Antwun Echols, William Joppy and Taylor. After looking at it I must admit that Bernard Hopkins does not disgrace any list of 10 best fighters all time. The running and holding have characterized only his later years, starting perhaps around the year 2000 or so.