being a hot-headed warrior priestess does not make her a moron, unless you expect all and every character to be perfect goody-two-shoes

Hot heads are fine but Jesus Christ, Garrosh Hellscream, whom everyone likes to paint as an idiot, outclasses her in not only hotheadedness but intelligence as well. I'm not asking for everyone to be goody-two-shoes "Go'el"-type characters, that'd be awful, I just want to correct people that still cling to this backwards idea that in WCIII Tyrande was some "Savage, Intelligent, Wise, Independant" Leader, it's like they talk about how she used to be, and haven't even played the damned campaign themselves!

And they just cant let the Alliance takeover the horde, as the game has to continue. Imagine the alliance would takeover all of horde land. What would people do in battlegrounds after that event occured?

And if you give back regions like HF the questing imbalance would go towards alliance. It's not all that easy. I think it is better to let the High King show his High-Kingness in this plot and to give <insert warchief here> the throne of ogrimmar.

And if we see the upcoming events Furion mentioned, horde and alliance need to coexists in some form to stand against the incoming challenge.

"Savage, Intelligent, Wise, Independant" Leader, it's like they talk about how she used to be, and haven't even played the damned campaign themselves!

so then going back to your examples.
She chooses to lead assualts against humans/orcs. Why is that stupid? They are outsiders and invaders afterall. She is also the High Priestess of the Sentinels, should it be a surprise she meets force with force.

We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

So, let's say the Alliance get the outcome they want. Orgimmar and Azshara are now occupied by the Alliance. The Orcs, Goblins, and Trolls are forced to retreat. Sounds great, although occupying that territory would require a lot of manpower and resources (since, you know, resources are a major issue for Org). But hey, newly conquered territory right?

Good luck holding it when the exiled military might of the Horde makes the smart move of heading to the Undercity. Their best play would be to move as much strength as possible to Forsaken territory and then begin the push south. I don't believe the Alliance would have the strength to counter a full Forsaken, Orc, Troll, Goblin, and BE invasion in the Eastern Kingdoms while at the same time holding Kalimdor (and likely putting up with Tauren raids or laying siege to their territory).

You're presuming Lor'themar wouldn't change allegiances and sabotage the Horde fleet. You think he wants all those uncultured mongrels loitering about his very doorstep? He barely tolerates Sylvanas as it is.

OMG 13:37 - Then Jesus said to His disciples, "Cleave unto me, and I shall grant to thee the blessing of eternal salvation."

Dont make me count all the dumb stuff she did. At the top of the crown being killing friendlies to free an enemy out of his millenium prison, setting off the Wardens after him wich ultimately causes Maiev (a better character than Tyrande IMO) to go insane.

I never liked Maiev. I think letting him go was a good idea. Hell his brother should have never jailed him in the 1st place. At less Tyrande is around. The just killed Keal'thas off as a insane betrayer. Keal was a badass in WC3. He is one of reason I play blood elves in WoW.

Originally Posted by Lumineus

You're presuming Lor'themar wouldn't change allegiances and sabotage the Horde fleet. You think he wants all those uncultured mongrels loitering about his very doorstep? He barely tolerates Sylvanas as it is.

I do not know what you are talking about *looks guiltily off to the side*.

You're presuming Lor'themar wouldn't change allegiances and sabotage the Horde fleet. You think he wants all those uncultured mongrels loitering about his very doorstep? He barely tolerates Sylvanas as it is.

Because it was only Garrosh and his goons responible for carrying out the attack on Theramore. There wasn't a scenario about it or anything.....

see, this is where the alliance really love to miss out details to suit there arguments.

The attack on theramore was, at the disgust of Baine and Vol'jin, ordered by Garrosh, as as horde they were oath bound to follow his orders. But, they fought honorably, on the ground hand to hand against the alliance. There was even valid reason, given theramore presence in the barrens for the horde to have honorable combat against theramore and stop more bloodshed being spread across there own lands from the alliance.

But, it was garrosh who used this as a decoy, using the rest of the horde as his decoy to have the mana bomb brought to theramore, which nobody but his kor'kohn, malkorok and the goblins knew about.

The horde who fought hand to hand in theramore were doing so honorably. This is why, if you read the book, you'd know how much of a shock this was to baine and vol'jin for what garrosh did.

Seriously have you even read the book. Are you basing your argument of that shitty little scenario?

see, this is where the alliance really love to miss out details to suit there arguments.

The attack on theramore was, at the disgust of Baine and Vol'jin, ordered by Garrosh, as as horde they were oath bound to follow his orders. But, they fought honorably, on the ground hand to hand against the alliance. There was even valid reason, given theramore presence in the barrens for the horde to have honorable combat against theramore and stop more bloodshed being spread across there own lands from the alliance.

But, it was garrosh who used this as a decoy, using the rest of the horde as his decoy to have the mana bomb brought to theramore, which nobody but his kor'kohn, malkorok and the goblins knew about.

The horde who fought hand to hand in theramore were doing so honorably. This is why, if you read the book, you'd know how much of a shock this was to baine and vol'jin for what garrosh did.

Seriously have you even read the book. Are you basing your argument of that shitty little scenario?

I've read it and I still fail to understand why you pull up this nazi cliche "we were just following orders" bullshit to completely shift accountability.

Regardless of if they didn't know about the bomb, their participation was needed in order for Garrosh to drop the bomb under everyone's noses.

nazi cliche... seriously? Dude, your own us soldiers do the same shit in the middle east under the same orders.

Whatever, you don't want to try on the other shoe, you just want to jump around yelling 'no, horde is bad, horde is bad! *stamps feet*'. God, at least TRY to look over the bloody fence.

A bit off-topic, but comparing the atrocities committed by U.S soldiers in Afghan to the atrocities committed by Nazi Germany displays a complete ignorance of world history. Please find me the destabilization and genocide of a certain group of people being deliberately done by the U.S Armed forces so I can write my congressmen...

Back to topic: Several of the Horde leaders knew Garrosh was a bad choice, but still followed him anyway. It wasn't until their own interests were being encroached upon that they decided to rebel against him.

Im not suggesting the Horde is completly bad,I am simply stating that the accountability lies on their shoulders. They fucked up big time.

So if, lets say, Varian was to order the alliance to attack undercity, to 'claim back lordearon', and they fought the forsaken there hand to hand. And then Jaina comes in and nukes the zone, killing all the forsaken there, and leaving a crater where undercity once stood, you'd be fine with that?

So if, lets say, Varian was to order the alliance to attack undercity, to 'claim back lordearon', and they fought the forsaken there hand to hand. And then Jaina comes in and nukes the zone, killing all the forsaken there, and leaving a crater where undercity once stood, you'd be fine with that?

Except the actions of the horde haven't been one event, it has been several. Which is why there is an impending siege on their doorstep.