For every 700 Aspie men, there will apparently be only 200 Aspie womenAs a world traveled ‘famous’ autie, I meet a gazillion Aspies. Gay men exist in the Aspie population just as much as they do in the non-autistic population, and I’ve met gay, lesbian, bisexual and transexual people on the autism spectrum and also those with ‘Identity Disorders’ who have both male and female personas regardless of their biological gender. But by and large, the majority of male Aspies I’ve met are straight and the majority of female Aspies I’ve met are lesbians or are those born before Asperger’s Syndrome was a diagnosis and were already married with children by the 1960s, 70s and 80s. So given there are only 200 Aspie women to every 700 Aspie men in society, those straight male Aspies looking for someone ‘like themselves’ may go a long time without relationships. So just how many straight Aspie women are there?

Well, I don’t thing there are any stats on this. I would say, however, that one of the interesting things about Aspie women is that many who are today lesbians, since having been diagnosed with Aspergers in the 1990s, in fact USED TO BE MARRIED and often HAD KIDS. Having heard their stories, Many of them were unable to gain ongoing employment and marriage and kids was a way to either leave one’s parents and gain ‘freedom’ or a way to stay off the streets. So they generally got with non-autistic men and most often they felt they couldn’t relate, had become ‘furniture’, felt that without being able to socialise and converse in a non-autistic manner they had become only valued as sex objects or mothers of these husbands’ children, and so, their diagnosis sometimes freed them from this ‘obligation’. Once ‘freed’ they generally sought out other women like themselves and many of these women had either never been in a relationship or had been in relationships like their own. So it was sometimes natural that either these once married women were always lesbians (and many will tell you that) or that they simply found lesbian relationships with Aspie-friendly women more fulfilling than with non-autistic men.

So, at a guess, if I thought of 20 Aspie women I have met, I’d say that among those over 30 years old, perhaps 60% identify as lesbian. So that would leave 8 out of every 20 Aspie women over 30 years old, would perhaps be straight. I’d say my experience of the rate of gay Aspie men among the general male Aspie population would be around 10% . So for every 70 Aspie men, around 7 might be gay.

So going back to our 200 Aspie women to every 700 Aspie men, we could say there might be 80 straight Aspie women to every 630 Aspie men.

Aspie men do marry non-autistic women. Sometimes these women are ‘carer types’ who find these men ‘sweet’, ‘innocent’, ‘naive’ and some believe that with their love and guidance they will ‘get better’… its the Florence Nightingale thing… and when these men remain naive and Aspie and fail to read her facial expression, tone of voice, body language or get all the non-autistic protocols wrong and obsess for 10 years, many of these non-autistic women become burned out and move on, though some do not and there are some good marriages between these two worlds.

Aspie women also marry non-autistic men and some are very happy that way. Because naivete in Aspie women brings out the protectiveness of some non-autistic men, their marriages are more likely to last than those of Aspie men to non-autistic women. Especially if the Aspie woman also has children to a non-autistic husband. This means there are likely more Aspie men whose non-autistic partners left them than there are Aspie women whose non-autistic partners left them.

So lets go back to our rough stats. If there’s maybe 80 straight Aspie women to every 630 Aspie men then probably 5% of those straight Aspie men will be in marriages to non-autistic women and around 50% of those straight Aspie women will be in marriages to non-autistic men. This puts the figures like this: There might be around 40 straight Aspie women to every 600 straight single Aspie men.

So where are they, how might you meet them and who else might you meet instead who might find a straight Aspie man their ‘thang’?

OK, the straight, single Aspie women I have known are often socially phobic. So they mostly don’t go out and will rarely go to a social event. However, they often enjoy book shops, libraries and churches – places they can be without fearing being ‘hit upon’. They may be ok with meeting an Aspie male, but many, perhaps 80-90% have already been used and abused by non-autistic males, so these women are usually very nervous of standard ‘pick up’ lines of being ‘hit upon’. If you do meet one, it’s pretty essential you chill out, be as calm and genuine as you can be, and aim for friendship not sex. Aspie women who have been used and abused by non-autistic men will sometimes be glad of a friendship with an Aspie man and it might or might not ever lead to sex, but most of these kinds of women need to feel they are relaxed, safe, and enjoy your company long before THEY want sex from a partner. These women may have previously complied with the sexual demands of non-autistic men in exchange for acceptance, so they may be rightfully upset if ANY man pressures or tries to co-erce them into sex. The key is, try to forget the idea of sex, focus on being a good friend, and if the pair of you get to eventually find you are close enough to want to have sex, then let each other know. But with traumatised Aspie women, it is best to wait for THEM to tell you they are interested to take the relationship beyond friendship. Just let them know, ONCE YOU HAVE ALREADY FORMED A STRONG ONGOING FRIENDSHIP that IF they wanted to, that you would be interested.

So what if you’re not religious or don’t read books?

There’s the Unitarian Church which requires only that you are spiritual, not religious and there are also Buddhist and other meditation centres, but be prepared to be quiet. You can find these around the world, do a Google search.

There’s picture books and text books with indexes.

There are also many straight Aspie men who find that straight women aged 10-20 years older than them are more accepting of them as potential partners. There are dating forums for older women to find partners ie women over 30s, over 40s, over 50s etc where Aspies might find someone older than them who might be far more accepting than a non-autistic partner their own age or younger.

Many straight Aspie men also meet non-English speaking women, foreign students or those seeking marriages out of their country – what used to be called ‘mail order brides’ and there are many dating forums where people can meet women interested in such relationships.

Straight Aspie men may also find there are ‘parallels’ between their Aspie stuff and women with ADHD, Acquired Brain Injury, dyslexia, Tourette’s, OCD, Bipolar or learning disabilities. There are many online forums through which to meet people with other disabilities and women with these may feel more akin to men with disabilities of their own. You Tube has many women with disabilities who have made clips and allow comments and telling them your appreciation of their clip may be a way of ‘dropping by and saying hello’.

Remember that forming a friendship is about saying hi and giving people FREEDOM and CHOICE. It is NOT about pestering, stalking, pursuing or stalking anyone. Do not obsess on people. Obsession is also not liking someone. Liking someone is a gentler process and people should be free to also say you are not their taste. Eventually someone will think you are their taste but not everyone. Accept this. Also accept that Aspies are often an ‘acquired taste’, they are NOT everyone’s thing, but they can usually be somebodies thing. Try not to be ME, ME, ME. Try to be kind, thoughtful and think about what you can give BEFORE you fixate on what you want to take. To be a good friend or partner you have to be GOOD VALUE. If you are selfish, too bolshy, too loud, then work on being more generous, thoughtful, gentle, and more easy going. Friendly does NOT mean ‘in people’s faces’. Calm yourself, do breathing exercises, take breaks. Social-emotional development takes time, you don’t have to be perfect, but you do have to try and be good value.

You can make a FREE BLOG for yourselves at http://www.wordpress.com and start writing (interesting, positive) things to meet people who leave comments. You can even put a photo up there of yourself and tell people about yourself. Places like My Space, Face Book and YouTube are other ways you can put something up to tell people about yourself and maybe meet people… but of course BE CAREFUL, because people writing to you may not be who they appear to be so DONT put your phone number up there and always meet people in a SAFE public place, perhaps even take someone with you, and don’t allow yourself to get lured away by people. Get to know them over time in a safe and public place. I’m no expert here, far from it. You can find websites about social safety, so go read them.

You can form activities clubs and dinner clubs via http://www.auties.org or join existing ones there. It can be a way of meeting others on the spectrum and every now and then women may be part of these groups. there is also an Aspie dating site http://www.aspieaffection.com/

Straight Aspie men who are just looking for sex shouldn’t pester, stalk or pursue anyone. It will only lead to trouble, usually their own.

In some countries there are legal, clean, sex businesses where sex workers charge a fair rate for their work. It’s important to distinguish these businesses from illegal brothels which exploit vulnerable women. Those employing prostitutes should always make sure they use condoms and avoid contributing to the misery of women who are forced into prostitution through poverty or addiction.

Then there’s the whole issue of how to spot a straight Aspie woman. Well if you meet an Aspie woman with a shaved head and Doc Martin boots, then be aware this is almost a ‘lesbian uniform’ 😉

Now these are all GENERALISATIONS but here’s some basics about spotting and increasing your chances of meeting or being interesting to an Aspie woman.

The straight Aspie women I’ve met tend to have the fashion style of Ugly Betty so don’t expect fashion queens because most are not. Most don’t wear make up or perfume. Many detest the smell of perfumes or aftershaves although they are also sensitive to the smell of unwashed bodies or clothes so WASH.

Many Aspie women love shiny, sparkly or fluffy objects so this may be reflected in their jewery, key fobs, hand bags or clothing. It also means that if YOU have a buzzy key fob such Aspie women may be more likely to look at you than if you are good looking!

Many Aspie women read, some read psychology or philosophy books, some read science fiction or fantasy fiction, so carrying a book is a reasonable idea to make it easier for an Aspie woman to take an interest or dare ask an introductory question which might lead to a conversation.

Most Aspie women do not go to night clubs and are not in the drug or binge drinking scene. Think more along the lines of a picnic in the park, going to a movie, visiting the ducks.

Some Aspie women have over protective parents, even night time curfews! So expect you might have to meet the parents, be inspected and not stay out after 8pm even if she’s 25!

Are you an Aspie woman?

If you are lesbian, were you ever in a straight relationship, married or had children? If so, what lead to you moving into gay relationships?

If you are straight and in a relationship, is it with a non-autistic person and how do you find this?

If you are a straight Aspie woman and single, what type of person is your ideal partner? And where would you usually meet people?

Are you an Aspie-friendly woman but don’t have Asperger’s? What has made your relationships work? Or what do you find appealing about Aspie men?

I do like nightclubs a lot, sometimes, because I love the lights and the music, and very small parties where I know everyone and we are all alike. What REALLY gets to me are the moderately sized-parties, parties small enough for people to expect me to interact with someone, but big enough where most people do not know me well and may decide that I am too weird for their taste. Nightclubs are also nice for me because there are so many people I am not expected to interact with anyone, and since there are a lot of different people, that could be troublesome, but maybe, in the mix, you’ll find a good one.:) On the other hand, you can also get jostled, hit on, and its just so crowded and noisy and smelly that it gets to be too much.

As for fashion, makeup, perfumes, it depends. I dress up for a lot of reasons, but NEVER to attract men. I am allergic and overall overwhelmed by strong perfumes, but will go for milder ones. I wear some makeup sometimes, it depends, but I NEVER go for the ‘natural’ look. What is the point of adorning yourself with makeup if no one can see it? If you want to go natural, actually go natural and save time, money, and makeup! Red lipstick all the way!!! Besides, natural is never natural. You can always tell when someone is wearing makeup. The exception would be if you had a scar or birthmark or something like that, and you wanted to cover it.

I do love books, mostly non-fiction, and shiny things. That is why I collect and research gems, with full consideration for fair trade, sustainability, and human rights.:) Liberal activism is a big turn-on for me.

That’s tangent stuff, though. I am bisexual, but I really prefer women. I have never had a boyfriend, and do not want much, much to my parents’ chagrin. *Sigh* My parents are NOT protective of me, I have led a very unsheltered life, although I will say that every time I talk to a boy more than once, and it goes well, my father starts with all the questions. (I am 18 for those who do not know.)

“Who is he? Where does he live? What does he like? Why haven’t I met him? Are you going to be alone with him?” Stuff like that. But I think most fathers do that.

As for men, I have nothing against men, they make great friends, fathers, teachers, etc., or at least they can. Many do and many don’t. But recently, I joined an adult social networking site call Adultspace, for a couple of reasons, one of the main ones being I wanted to meet all kinds of people to explore my risque side with in a safe way. Unfortunately, that has its drawbacks, mostly with men.

I cannot count the number of men who have hassled me to give them pornographic images of me, my phone number, my address, etc., even AFTER I stated very clearly not to make such requests of me because they would never be granted. I did not have that statement at first, but I sort of expect people to have more discretion and class around total strangers. Wow, was I wrong.

And then there are those people that do not even bother to read my profile. I actually had a man come up to me and tell me he couldn’t bother to read my profile, but that I wanted him, and he wanted me, so let’s just get on with it. EXCUSE ME?! Granted, I have met a lot of great people, including non-autistic men, including one who works with autistic adults, and we delve into so much more than just sex.

Another pet peeve of mine is that I state very clearly on my profile that I am an androgyne, even though I was born biologically female, I am both male and female, and neither, in every other way.

Most of the men who contact me totally ignore that, they treat me like a cisgendered female, and are either totally confused or do not care when I make references to genderqueer. And here is another thing…if you do not know what an androgyne is, research it first, so I do not have to answer the same questions over and over, especially if the questions have answers that you could find a bunch of different places. If there is something specific you don’t get, or you want to know what androgyne means TO ME, that’s okay.

But most people just ask me, what does androgyne mean? And I am like, what? Are people on this site not capable of using multi-syllable words? Do they not know how to use a dictionary? And even when I explain it, they don’t get it. Again, specific meanings for individuals, and certain aspects of androgyny, especially when we get to talking about culture and society, can be complicated. My beef is with people that do not even try to learn about it, and expect me to spoonfeed everything ot them, and then STILL ignore it.

The basic definition is simple. You are biologically one sex, but do not fit the common images or expectations of either sex, and are not transsexual.

Okay, so I was flattered at first when men started calling me ‘sexy’ and telling me they wanted me, but trust me, it gets REALLY old REALLY fast, and, frankly, it is repulsive how many of them do it. But no, I have never had these issues with women, straight, gay, or bi. Only men.

I cannot count the number of times when I was interacting with one person, or with a group of people, and they picked up on something subtle that I missed, or even tricked me or made fun of me without knowing it. Or when I did something that other people did not iunderstand or were flat-out turned off by, or that made them think I was a moron. I have had so many encounters with people that left me confused or angry or sad or just overwhelmed…but for some reason, I have never been taken for rides by men. But that might be because I was not interested in men in the first place, so they really don’t get a chance.

Just sharing my experience on this scene. And I LOVE the Unitarian Church, by the way.:)

By the way, most people, especially men, want partners that they can fondle regularly, and in a variety of ways.

Sorry, but if that is what you want, you can keep looking. I ususally do not let anyone touch me in any way. If I know you and like you, you can touch me sometimes in some ways. There are some ways in which I do not ever like to be touched. And I have to be able to see it coming, and you have to approach me calmly. And ususally, I prefer it to be quick and gentle, although, there are some exceptions to the gentle rule, lol.

yes, I think the androgene thing is important for Aspie men to understand if they are interested in Aspie women because many Aspie women have high Androgen which does make them feel emotionally different to a majority of non-autistic women who have lower androgen and higher estrogen. I also think that androgeny is important for Aspie men to understand if they are to understand the relative indifference of bisexual and even straight Aspie women with regards to relationships with men. It is essentially high estrogen that drives the ‘breeder’ and ‘nuturer’ instincts in many non-autistic women, so Aspie women with lower estrogen and higher androgen may lack many of the associate behaviours which come with wanting to breed or nurture. This is all the more reason why Aspie men seeking an Aspie woman for a partner should think about FRIENDSHIP first before seeking sex.

You forgot asexuality. It’s pretty common among autistics. In autistic women it often shades into lesbianism because what little sexual desire or willingness to do sex (even if not true desire) is more often with other women.

We were talking yesterday about the idea of having a blog to show people as a conversation starter and to get to know people. I can’t help but feel that although it’s a great idea for aspies to tell people about blogs they’re actually working on, starting one for the purpose of meeting people seems like a bad idea to me.

It’s actually quite hard to find worthwhile things to write worthwhile things about, and realistically, there are so many people with blogs out there these days that people have to impress others into reading them in the first place.

On the other hand, for someone who wouldn’t normally need much prompting to start a blog, I think it could work out well.

There’s also something called Polyamoury, which is another common form of sexuality that has a high proportion of autistic spectrum people.

Polyamourous relationships are ones in which partners don’t mind each other seeing other people, but are otherwise just like any other heterosexual / homosexual relationship.

Oddly this does actually freak people out. My last two burgeoning relationships collapsed because I simply don’t feel like being jealous about a woman, and these women had NOT been involved with nice men previously.

I think starting a blog for the purpose of meeting people is FINE if one is seeking a meeting of minds, of souls. For blogs are merely windows on those minds and souls. But blogging as a pick up strategy would be a bit sad. See this is where I see a blog as where one can reveal MANY levels on which one thinks or feels about life, society, the world and environment, talks about spirituality, politics, things that matter to them. And a blog helps people develop those expanded interests too. I’ve ended up blogging about things I had no idea mattered that much to me, but ended up being things that interested me a lot. So blogging is about showing one’s soul.

Men looking for relationships may think its about showing their looks, their style, but women on the spectrum are often far more interested in finding a compatible friend, male or female, or learning more about life, the world, themselves, and sometimes they do this through reading other people’s stuff. And many women on the spectrum care about feeling COMFORTABLE with someone far more than what they look like or how they dress.
And that is very hard to share in a 3 second face to face chance meeting. In the desperation to be interesting in that 3 seconds a man on the spectrum can be too full on, go overboard or seem too desperate. But a business card with one’s blog address on it, allows a woman to feel FREE and EMPOWERED (read ‘safe’) to be the voyeur into his life through reading how open is he, how sorted is he as a person, is he a deep or shallow person, do we share interests or does he have some interesting ideas I’ve never thought about… that sort of thing. So yes, do it for oneself, but it could be a way to leave a lasting impression that won’t burn a potential bridge so fast as fitting too much into a 3 second chance meeting.

And a blog is like a living room. Someone wrote to me that he feels my blog is a cosy place he thinks of as his ‘virtual home’… imagine if a woman on the spectrum could feel like that about your blog. And that’s an example of what to make it. Make it a really welcoming space.

Not all straight people are 100% straight nor 100% monogamous. They are both part of their own ‘spectrums’.

Personally, I like very clear boundaries, a strong sense of family with my partner (family doesn’t have to mean kids) and a sense of relative exclusivity is part of that cosiness. I don’t like a lot of change and I only deeply bond with one partner. I’m not good with getting attention and I have little need for admiration. I am not bored easily and am great at self entertainment. I love solitude and one partner fills up all of the small amount of social space I need in my home life.

Not everyone needs or wants monogamy but I’m a serial monogamist. I’ve had chances to be otherwise, but I can’t help but be what I am. It’s not that I worry I’d crush my husband by being with someone else (but I’m pretty sure it would) but I know it’d be too much ‘muddy water’ in a cognitive reality in which I have very clear boundaries. And I’d get nothing from being with more than one person which, as an artist, I couldn’t already get dividing myself between the many loves of my life; writing, painting, sculpting, composing, nature and my husband.

I also don’t know that polyamory is common among people on the spectrum. Maybe in certain online forums and then one must question how many of these people are identifying with AS rather than having AS.

I can say that ‘hooking up’ with multiple partners is a strong social trend in the last 15 years and that many people with attachment disorders fear committment and this suits them as no commitment is required.

I can say that people on the spectrum may suit some non-autistic polyamorous people who would otherwise not want an ongoing relationship with someone on the spectrum but may fancy sleeping with them.

I certainly know more people who are either happy to not be in relationships, waiting for one, or are seeking only a monogamous one.

I think those on the spectrum who are happy with polyamory probably get bored easily, enjoy attention and admiration, open up easily to a wide range of people and have no problems with change and no particular need for familiarity.

I can’t say I’ve met many people on the spectrum like that but I’m sure they exist as the spectrum is one very diverse place.

as for jealousy, I don’t think that’s a strong thing in my world. I am, however, extremely pragmatic, and having a bunch of women phoning and doing that ‘cat woman thang’ on the phone to my husband would annoy me as women who are into pursuit of married men often also chase gay guys, they just love to get what they believe they’re excluded from having.

It’s an emotional buzz for them, a power thing, a competitive thing toward the woman (or gay guy) who’s married to the man their pursuing. And whilst I enjoy achievement, I find competition tedious, impractical and an emotional drain.

It’s a shame for all the single guys that some of the women they may be interested in may be far more interested in chasing married and gay men, just for the thrill of the chase… not with the man (who is often interchangeable with any man in his position), but deep down its about power and privilege over the wife or gay partner.

Well, I’m not saying that you should become polyamourous. I think my main point is that women tend to want that exclusivity thing and that that turns out to be my latest fundamental problem because I can’t find it within myself to “simulate” the jealousy thing which the women I meet want.

People such as Marc Segar and Tony Attwood say that aspergers is simply that we have to think about things when non-autistic people don’t, and it’s true in a way. I personally have to think my way through just about every social situation, and that gives me a chance to “bypass” the bad stuff in most cases.

However, in the case of relationships, I know that I don’t want to expect a woman to be exclusive with me, and having to “emulate” that just to be in a relationship is something I find quite offputting. Especially when women who have been in extremely abusive relationships will reject me just for that one thing.

In other words. I don’t see a way to “bypass” this aspect of relationships.

Back to the subject of blogging.. The thought occurred to me overnight that much of the blogging software allows many people to “author” a blog at the same time, and that starting such a group blog with a given subject as its theme would be a great way to give people the practice needed to blog.

Perhaps an autism related blog would be a good subject. I registered a blog a few months back with the aim of writing articles about the definition of autism. Maybe one dedicated to figuring out the autistic spectrum sexuality problems or the non-autistic social rules?

wild. I’m sorry, call me autie, but I can’t even IMAGINE wanting someone to be jealous if I was interested in someone else. Seems bizarre, mind bending, illogical, and a waste of valuable energy.

Maybe its the knight on the white horse thing. But there are plenty of ways to be that for someone and its pretty important to distinguish being a doormat versus being a knight. But I don’t think either of those is ‘jealous lover’… just bizarre. They must have O.D’d on rom com 😉

Sorry, I’m meant to be sympathetic, but either I don’t meet these sort of people or you hang out with people in a whole other head space.

re blogging, cool idea re the group blog thing. My blog is a FREE one from http://www.wordpress.com . You can choose different themes and it ain’t cheap and nasty (like My Space or Face Book) and you don’t need much teckie know how to work it (I have zippo of that).

I think one of the things that is very missing is that men on the spectrum have little idea of the emotional needs and sexual realities of women on the spectrum so there’s a lot of assumptions and projection and I think it’s the same the other way around. So a group blog could hopefully help people learn plenty about the opposite sex but also about what similarities and differences exist in relation to non-autistic men and women.

then perhaps you mean possessiveness, that the women you are talking about want to feel you feel so strongly committed that you would assert a degree of possessiveness and for some women, yes, this can be part of feeling ‘protected’. Think of it in caveman terms. The woman is often not as strong as the man, hence the man is drawn toward being protective if not possessive, the woman is attracted to being protective if not possessed.

Personally, I am a very autonomous woman so being supported makes sense, someone who will stand strong WITH me, being protected… well it depends on the level of the threat, but being possessed by someone, aiaia, that rubs my autonomy totally the wrong way. So I think it comes down to the woman’s personality traits more than down to something about ‘women’ in general.

It may well be that YOU have been drawn to those women who are not highly autonomous and hence, seek this possessiveness response from you as a man.

But there are certainly MANY women who can’t stand to be possessed by someone and prefer to belong WITH than belong TO. But I do think that those who prefer ‘belonging WITH’ may tend to be more aware of and more developed in their selfhood. I wrote about Belonging WITH in Somebody Somewhere and how I felt pretty freaked out by a society which confused ‘control’ with ‘love’, ‘belonging to’ with ‘belonging with’.

If you don’t find it natural to want to possess another human being its probably because you are hopelessly anthropological (prefer to observe and respect people in their own element) and egalitarian (seek equality)
in which case perhaps be more selective and chose people who have relationship values compatible with that and not clashing with it.

Yeah, I understand the posessiveness thing at an animal instinct level, but realistically, it’s just another hangover from the caveman era. Another intriguing facet of the human mind that we can let out to play for a bit but which will ultimately cause damage if not kept under control.

The posessiveness thing seems to me to be the root of much of the evil in this world. When women hold men to such high standards, they’re forced to compete at extremely agressive levels.

Going back to something you said earlier about a womans problem being finding how “sorted” a man is, yes I can agree with that, but the flip side is that the information needed for autistic spectrum people to learn how to “get sorted” simply isn’t there and even autistic spectrum people often simply brush others off rather than offering sorely needed feedback.

women expecting men to be possessive as some indication of their virility is possibly part of our programming for that ‘survival of the fittest’ thing… that the most dominant males get to mate because ultimately they will be the most physically/emotionally resilient in times of threat or privation. So, yes, very caveman, illogical, but possibly inbuilt in many people.

What you say about men being ‘sorted’ is so true. I am always totally straightforward in telling Aspie men about what things they have said or done which are totally ‘not on’ because it’s for their own good that they know and they can choose to do something about that or not, but if they don’t know then they are just left wondering why people find them off putting.

And part of telling them such things is because I see the person in all people, not walking conditions, so if something about their condition is overshadowing their personhood to the degree people misjudge them, then its worth letting them know.

For example if anyone shoves a finger up their nose whilst talking to me then wants to shake my hand, I’m going to let them know how that makes me feel. Or if they are booming out what they have to say with big movements and standing too close, I’m going to tell them this is creating a feeling of threat and it’d be more effective to speak more quietly and keep arm length between themselves and me.

I don’t think this means I don’t accept their Asperger’s because often its because these guys can’t gauge what they’re doing or process the feedback of facial expression, body language or intonation, so if you don’t actually TELL them (preferably kindly, calmly) then they’ll never know.

I probably should have replied sooner, but I wanted to come up with something thoughtful.

I think what you, Donna, said about the higher levels of androgen in Aspie women is REALLY fascinating. Are there any books or other resources that address this topic specifically that you would recommend? All I find are topics of general interest to all Aspies.

I care very much about people, children especially, but that is very different from wanting to have sex, give birth to, and bring up a child.

If I ever were to have children, I would adopt older children. It has been my dream since I was very little to adopt older children, and no one really understood why I didn’t just want to have a baby. Either that, or I will not have children at all. Probably, I will not have children at all. Too much of a loner in some other world that I quite enjoy.

As for the gender issue, that is a complicated one. From an early age, I just didn’t fit in with either the girls or the guys, I did not strongly identify in a gendered way with either of my parents. My interests and personality were very androgynous. That’s the nutshell.

nteresting you enjoy the Unitarian Church… tell me why?

I’m a Taoist spiritual atheist, would I fit in?

I like the Unitarian Church because they don’t turn anyone away. You are welcome as long as you are open to others’ beliefs. The idea behind the church is primarily to promote human interests based on commonly held precepts of most religions, i.e. the Golden Rule. They do not pontificate on dictums or rituals. Look for the humanity of all people and spread that message.

If you are down with that, the UUC is your place. Interfaith coalitions are another great idea for that.

I find a lot of things I believe in from all paths, whether religious or spiritual. My favorite religions are Judaism and the pagan religions, like Wicca, but more than anything else, I am simply spiritual.

I think you would fit in great. Taoism is about seeing the interconnectedness of all things and the humanity of all people. You are a very open-minded, peace-loving person, I would think. I don’t see why you wouldn’t fit in. Try it.:)

I don’t see why this would be an issue with the UUC, but this is a good tip for anything searching for a church to join. See, I live in a primarily Christian area, so I have been invitd by friends to several different church-related events. And this is what I have to say. The most fun, loving, open church communities will be liberal ones.

So, how do you tell a liberal church from a conservative one?

At a liberal church, everyone is really friendly and happy to see you. They will talk to you, include you, help you with anything you need, and want you back, but won’t pressure you.

At the conservative churches, you feel like a total outsider. People will not acknowledge you except to give you furtive glances. It has a cultish feel.

I don’t want to offend anyone. I am just relating my personal experiences with church-going.

I’m a college-age lesbian Aspie girl. I wasn’t told that I had AS until a few weeks ago, although my mother knew I had been diagnosed for years but never told me.

Anyways, I’ve been stumbling along for a very long time, understanding that I didn’t fit in but not comprehending the cause of my “eccentricity”. I was completely asexual until I was 16. Although I had hit puberty years before, emotionally I’ve always been younger than my chronological age. But, years later than everyone else, I realized that People (specifically *girls*) Were Attractive. Unfortunately, my school and home environment were and still are very homophobic. Add in complete social cluelessness, and you begin to understand why I didn’t truly fall in love until very recently.

Said love is unrequited by the other girl. However, she does love me as a friend and has become my “functional person” that I copy in social situations. Even when neither of us knew about the diagnosis, she instinictively knews how to help me manage my issues (sensory/emotional overloads especially). She has become my primary Special Intrest— I thought-loop her name for hours at a time.

I wish there was a resource for LBGT Auties/Aspies…. I have NO idea how to flirt, or even tell if a pretty girl is lesbian. All those signals are far too subtle! >.<

practice loving yourself so you become the person loveable to others. If you can’t read things, always ask. Sometimes we fixate on someone because we really need to feel loveable and that means we haven’t spent time loving who we are first. It’s important to fall for people not because we need them, not as replacements for the love we are missing in showing ourselves, not by making them into some icon by ignoring all which doesn’t fit our ideal… we should love them for THEM, and otherwise we actually don’t love THEM. Good luck navigating your early adulthood… I know it’s tough. I lived in a lesbian relationship in my 30s for 3 years. I wrote about it in Everyday Heaven. It was sexually a great move as it got me past a lot of damage from abuse. But I supportively love women in a very different way to how I fall in love with men and I’m now very happily married to a man. Some of us are straight, some of us are gay, some of us are some shades in between. I hope society comes to terms with the fact we don’t all fit their pidgeon holes. All the best to you.

Thanks a lot, I really have been coming to terms with why I am so attached to the girl I love, and it truly DOES have a lot to do with how much she accepts me for who and what I am… very few people in my life do. One day I hope to find another lesbian Aspie to have a real relationship with, and you have given me hope that more are out there! ^-^

As for navigating “the real world”, at least I now have an explanation for why I am the person I am, and that helps more than I could have ever imagined.

I am a straight aspie woman and have had relationship problems all my life. It sucks. It’s the one area of my life where I have never been able to ‘pass’ for normal. Not that passing is all that important to me nowadays, but I never even knew that I was an aspie until this past year (I’m 37, but regularly taken for a decade younger by others due to the way I look, speak, and act) and it was impressed upon me at a young age that ‘fitting in’ was important so I worked very hard to be as much like everyone else as possible. And it worked pretty well in most areas of life. However, relationships still don’t work very well. Men tend to be attracted to me upfront but think I’m weird once they get to know me. I had some bad situations with non-aspie men when I was younger too that make me cautious now. I attempted to have relationships with women thinking maybe that was the answer, but it doesn’t do anything for me. I think the whole thing is pretty depressing at this point.

I don’t know where you are in the world, but check http://www.auties.org for dinner clubs… see if there’s something in your area or start one. It’s certainly a way for adults on the spectrum to get to know others over a once a month regular dinner meet. We attend two dinner clubs here in Melb and they are going really well.

Thanks for the recommendation. I think part of my problem is that I visually look like the kind of alpha female that a lot of guys want to be with. Once they find out how clueless I am they either take advantage or are disappointed and leave. The taking advantage thing has happened a lot less in my 30s than my 20s because I am more cautious now but it took a LONG time to learn. I still cannot play “the game” that my friends were always telling me I had to learn. I have no idea how to do that. If I like a guy I act like I like them. If I don’t I act like I don’t. I am incapable of pretending and putting on an act. But most guys expect that sort of thing. Maybe it would be different with an aspie guy, but I don’t know if I have ever met one…I’m sure I must have at one point, maybe I just didn’t know what to look for. Plus, they would have to smell and feel a certain way that is hard to describe or I would not want to be physically close to them. Well, thanks for letting me vent anyway. This whole AS thing is really new to me. In one way I am glad that I finally don’t feel like I’m crazy. I can look back at my life through a lens that is finally clear and in focus and so many things make sense that didn’t before. In another way it’s almost overwhelming how much I need to learn about this in order to make better decisions in the future.

Making friends with non-autistic teens and 20 somethings was tough because they would often set me up, egg me on, or expect me to behave as they did toward guys. And if guys showed an interest they didn’t help me, they presumed I could hold my own and I was a walk over.

I’m reluctant in many ways to talk about the grit of what happened in those early days but suffice to say that non-autistic guys often ply young females with alcohol if not drugs to try and take what they want. Where non-autistic teens aren’t so easily duped by this, a teen with autism who has little clue as to telling ‘friendly’ from ‘friend’ is so vulnerable when these moral-less idiots target them. I my teens I didn’t understand such things constituted rape, same as when I was six the kid from our neighborhood went to my school, she’d pull me from the monkey bars to the ground and kick me in the legs, but I thought that because she was interested in me that I wasn’t being bullied. I only realised that as an adult. I also only realised as an adult that being plied with alcohol and having sex forced upon you is rape, that being bashed out of some other sick person’s sick disrespect for you is assault, that swapping sex with someone who is using you in exchange for accomodation to avoid the streets is exploitation and a form of prostitution, AND that having been through those things I NEED NOT FEEL SHAME.

And it’s not just ‘out there’ people should think about. My family had drunken parties regularly. Visiting adults go missing and the drunken partying carers don’t notices who is in the kids room. And if the autistic child or teen doesn’t have functional language, it makes them particularly vulnerable. As we train autistic people not to push, pinch, bite, run, squeal, what tools do they have left to defend against intruders? It’s no point keeping them imprisoned or watched at every turn, that in itself is psychologically abusive and terrible for development. But as people fixate on teaching compliance, assertiveness training is usually entirely missing…as though that’s the non-autistic carer’s job. Well, it’s people with autism who have to ultimately fend for ourselves whether its on the streets, with the nanny, in residential care or at the first party we go to.

Even in the home, a party goer may have a teenage son, and whilst everyone’s drunk, guess who is solitary and easy pickings? Being raped means that even hideous behaviour seems uphill from there and for every abuser who is overtly abusive, there will be others who will use charm and grooming to get the same results.

Being on my own since 15 meant I became a ‘domestic prostitute’ for survival and young women who live like this to avoid homelessness are really vulnerable. They are disrespected, used like objects, threatened with being discarded to the streets if they don’t accept their lot and power brings out the creep in some otherwise half human young men.

When young men disrespect a powerless, often clueless young woman, there is no love, there is ownership, and the usual boundaries a young woman might demand, aren’t known of or impossible to assert without risk of worse abuse or homelessness.

It’s unfortunate that so many autie-spectrum women in their 20s and 30s have been through this in their teens or 20s, so we are often the walking wounded by the time we meet men on the spectrum. Then the men wonder why so many of us have no interest in relationships or men. It’s a long hard road of recovery for women from this background to get past what has happened to them. To face it all is as painful or more so, than having gone through it, but without facing what has happened to them, they also can’t move forward to a new, more empowered way of relating and have healthy, equal relationships.

who knows, Ryan, Christine (above) could be someone to chat with. Another idea is start your own autie-friendly dinner club there. Since we’ve been running two here, a couple of people on the spectrum have found a partner through the group so it can happen.

Ah, if you’ve read all 9 books, there’s a current monthly competition I’m sending to the mailing lists people opt into on my website. I ask questions relating to the books but so far nobody has got all three right. Perhaps you would. If you’d like to interview me on any one of them, just let me know. You’d send me an interview by email…. 5-10 questions per book and you’d send the questions to bookings@donnawilliams.net. The interviews would be published on the blog. An interview about Everyday Heaven, for example, would cover sexuality and relationships so could give you a chance to also talk about your own experiences in looking for relationships.

Re film, do I write autie characters? OF COURSE!
The first screenplay is the adaptation of Nobody Nowhere.
But I so far have 7 completed screenplays, all very different.

Re film and autism, I think it’s important that an autistic character represents the PERSON not the condition. The condition is interwoven, some of the framing of the person, but I write films, not ‘autism films’, I write characters who are socially diverse but they are characters first, not walking documents of a condition.

Re asking me questions, how about you start by playing interviewer in the framework of book interviews of each book. This would a) mean others don’t start queing to also ‘just ask me…..’, that b) we have a clear start-finish to questioning, c) it gives us a framework so it’s professional and not utterly meandering. d) I get to hear what a reader got from the books.

I appreciate your straightforwardness about the difficult things you went through when you were younger, Donna. I have had some similar experiences, though not as extreme. But still, that kind of thing doesn’t have to be extreme to be damaging. I also did a lot of mimicry of my friends’ behaviors toward guys or approximating what I thought to be ‘normal.’ Then I would just cover up any unpleasant results by acting like it was my choice and that I was having lots of fun when that was far from the truth. I basically built a personality that was completely opposite my real one. I no longer operate through this false personality however because the results of it became intolerably painful and confusing. Since getting rid of it I actually feel much better even though it is difficult to act ‘like myself’ at times it is infinitely less stressful in the long run.
I don’t mean to ignore your comment Ryan, but I live on the West Coast so that is a bit far away for us to meet. But thanks.

I guess the blog is my newsletter of sorts.
there are mailing lists for the website.
there’s a Donna-fans list (quirky, anything donna-ish)
and a Donna-autism list (strictly autism related)
a Donna-arts list (arts related)
a Nobody Nowhere Film list. (to be informed of film related new re NN).

I am an autistic woman with a boyfriend diagnosed with ADD and certainly on the spectrum in my opinion. We
met online, in my opinion the very best place to find a partner because we got to talk first in a no pressure
environment in which I could understand all that he said. Luckily also he wasn’t afraid to start things off
because I’m far from likely to do that.

Hi Donna!
As o mother of an autistic child your comment about abuse to a non verbal child really resonate with my worries about my non verbal son. Both I and my husband were abused, sexually, when we were children, each by a person we trusted. I never told my family about it and he only told me. So you can imagine how great are our concerns about this issue. We don’t know who to trust, I even feel bad to leave the boy with he’s paternal grandparents. One of my great objectives in raising my child is to teach him assertiveness as opposed to my lack f it until my 30’s. In fact I was able to do it to all my nephews (have 16 of them), I wanted them to be very sure of themselves and to not let anyone mannipulate them into anything they feel is wrong. And now I want to do it to my son but he didn’t came with instructions and I have to do what therapists tell me to do because I want hi,m to be happy in the future. I also noticed that my husbands education made him to dependent on his mother’s opinions and I don’t want her to pass this to my son. I want him an independent thinker as far as it is possible. Independent even from me because I now I will probably die before him (and that’s the way it should be). So, please Donna and anyone who reads this and feel that can give me some pointers in how to achieve this, I would be ever so grateful.
Thanks

1) don’t panic
2) what happened happened to you and to your husband, not to him, so don’t gift him your own PTSD
3) remember that instead of teaching auties to not push, pinch, bite, squeal we should be teaching them WHEN to do so and that can be done through social stories using the person’s favorite characters.
4) give them a personal alarm they can have attached to a belt ring so they can pull the pin on it if they can’t scream or run but need to draw attention.
5) remember that most abuse is by known people, not strangers so that’s most people you don’t have to worry too much about or the odds are too slim to be worth the cost of imposing paranoia on the child.
6) be cautious of people who are too eager to grease up to the family or feel they have a ‘calling’ to care for kids, especially functionally non-verbal ones… of the three individuals who got access to my room, one claimed to want to go tuck me in, the other two disappeared during parties due to my family’s neglect, the second of which was known to be in there and put over that he was befriending me. Another who did NOT abuse me had access to my room as a tradesperson when I was about 9-10 and just observed me but once I was an adult got sexually involved with me. So it shows how these visitors managed their way into my room.
7) if the grandparents are warm, well adjusted people with no history of physical or emotional abuse, don’t be paranoid, trust your gut… you’ll know when people are slimy or ‘too good to be true’.
8 ) remember that most kids survive abuse which is not ongoing. It does often alter them, but they still grow up to be healthy human beings in most regards, particularly with sensible and good therapy even decades later, so don’t imagine that abuse 100% destroys all people at all times to a complete degree.
9) failing to enjoy and celebrate life and it’s opportunities is likely far more damaging.
10) over-care can be stifling, debilitating, reinforce low confidence in the world and pass on ‘baggage’.

I’m a girl in my 20s recently diagnosed with Asperger’s. I’ve been in only a couple of relationships with NTs. They both started out OK but were short-lived and looking back I feel I didn’t really connect with those people. Since finding out I have Asperger’s, I’ve sought aspie resources like forums and support groups and have realized that I’m very attracted to aspie guys because I feel they can get me and I can get them. It’s kind of funny reading this article because I often ask myself, where do I meet aspie men?

I’m a mid-20s HFA gal, totally straight (but much respect for my gay homegirls), employed, living with a bipolar artist dude and we get along swimmingly 90% of the time. We actually met through this really mean Aspie dude (like really mean – openly admitting to being racist) that we used to sort of hang out with. I’ve been with NT and schizoaffective guys before, but never anyone else diagnosed on the spectrum…. not because of any self hatred or w/e but just never really connected at that level with guys from autism support groups / haven’t been in situations with lots of auties/aspies.

Sometimes I wish I were with an autie dude, but I’m totally fine with my boy and we deal with some of the same issues. We each have our issues – his smoking sort of bothers me, and some of my ‘behaviors’ used to bother him until we learned to tune one another out.

Donna Williams is an Australian born adult with autism who was assessed as psychotic at the age of 2 in 1965, labelled disturbed in the 1970s and diagnosed as autistic in her 20s in 1991.

She acquired functional speech in late childhood and went on to become a qualified teacher with an honors degree in Sociology and a degree in Linguistics. She is the author of two international bestselling autobiographies and has 10 published books including 4 text books widely used in autism education and two books of poetry and prose.

As a screenwriter, she wrote the screenplay to “Nobody Nowhere“, the first book in her 4 book autobiographical series. That screenplay is currently under option to become a Hollywood film. She is an professional artist, singer-songwriter and published poet as well as a world renowned public speaker on autism now living with her husband in Australia. In her presentations she draws not only on her own experiences but on international experience as a professional autism consultant since 1996.

Donna’s is a speaker in demand around the world due to her unique perspective and ability to share her feelings and experiences on a very personal level. More information about her and her life’s work can be found on her website at http://www.donnawilliams.net .