I would agree that knowing the teen and being there for them is vastly important. I know too many parents who believe that their parenting should be done when their kids turn 10 or 11. Who feel like they have given them a good ground work and don't need to continue being an active parent by the time the child is in their teens. Nothing could be further from the truth -- teens really crave attention and affection at that point in their lives, even if that craving displays itself in less than easy to interpret signs.

maggie b.[/quote]

Very true maggie. Unfortunately, I noticed that the teens that didn't get affection or attention at home looked elsewhere as in affection from the opposite sex. I think girls turn to boys and have sex and look to that as affection when they are really way too young to process that emotionally. Too bad these kids don't realize that you give away a part of yourself. A lot of them aren't ready for that. And yes, I used to see parents leaving kids for the weekend while they'd fly off somewhere, or leaving the kids alone constantly just because they knew how to microwave a dinner and turn on a TV. Little did they know that they were getting up to way more than mac and cheese and MTV.

I think it all depends on the teen. Not all of them act in such an extravagant manner, many do, but not all. In my years of knowing my son and daughter's friends and knowing their parents a lot of their behavior depends on what goes on at home. I have seen teens pushed and pulled all different ways and the parents think that pushing them constantly is for their own good. They go through lip service talking to them and think that is enough, when really, they don't know them at all, because they are too busy. I have seen a few teens who the parents thought were perfect angels, and didn't really know them....at all, and were shocked when things happened. People have to get to know their kids, and bad things can still happen, but it's worth the effort. And for the record...they are not all bad. There are some kids who are really on the ball and do just fine when they grow up.

I totally agree with you, xina. I was reminded of how little preparation most of us have for parenting when I recently saw again the scene in the movie Parenthood where Keanu Reeves' character comments to his new mother-in-law that you have to get a license to drive a car, but "anyone" can have a child without having to prove competency.

I believe that parents need to be parents to, not friends or housemates with, their children, until those children DO become adults (or at least reach the age of majority). Parents need to make informed decisions and to be consistent. They MUST hold firm to their decisions in the face of adolescent displeasure; no matter how vociferously the child argues or dramatizes, in his heart of hearts, she truly needs parents who will not back down and reverse their duly considered judgments.

Most of all parents need to love their children and to demonstrate that love through all the phases along the way to adulthood.

...I used to see parents leaving kids for the weekend while they'd fly off somewhere, or leaving the kids alone constantly just because they knew how to microwave a dinner and turn on a TV. Little did they know that they were getting up to way more than mac and cheese and MTV.

Yes, in many cases, WAY more than just a Mac and cheese. Your statement brought back memories to me, xina, when a couple of our kids complained to us that we were the only parents (but I'm sure there were others too) who never left for vacation by ourselves. I guess our house was next on the list so many times, but we never left it vacant overnight and the kids home, thus disqualifying it for partying.

Right on, ladies! In my thinking, children are like puppy dogs--they have to be potty-trained, house-broken, taught the proper commands, and kept on a leash until they know the boundaries, given lots of affection and the knowledge that their parents will never desert them.

Yes, in many cases, WAY more than just a Mac and cheese. Your statement brought back memories to me, xina, when a couple of our kids complained to us that we were the only parents (but I'm sure there were others too) who never left for vacation by ourselves. I guess our house was next on the list so many times, but we never left it vacant overnight and the kids home, thus disqualifying it for partying.[/quote]

We didn't leave ours vacant either Tee. My daughter probably would have been okay, but I was always afraid she'd leave the stove on or something and burn the house down. She wasn't much of a party person and had a tight group of friends that did a lot of sort of "nerdy" things. As for my son...he was more of a challenge and was in with the popular crowd. He'd most likely have 100 people at our house 15 minutes after we left!!

I am very confused as to why pregnancy should be a public issue. Does sex ed at school ever actually work?

Umm ... yes. My parents travelled so I went through sex ed in Australia in Grades 5 and 6. It was actually part of a class called personal development (which also covered drugs, bullying etc) and it wasn't graded (I think grading something like sex ed is just stupid). Yes everyone giggled through the safe sex presentation, and everyone groaned through the childbirth video but we were all fascinated. How can you not be fascinated by this subject when you are 10 or 11 and it is so taboo?

maggie b. wrote:

The majority of young people I work with have gone through sex ed at school and the few I have spoken to about it have found it a subject of amusement, not education. I can remember one young guy Matt and the stories of the hard time he and a friend gave the teacher (the stories were hilarious!). (FYI, when Matt's brother was supposed to go through the course the teacher asked the parents to have him opt into the religious alternative!) The few of these kids I have had really in depth conversations about it with talk about the fact that sex ed doesn't really prepare you for real life sex. One girl and I were talking about how the school had told them always use condoms, always makesure the guy has one but they didn't talk about what you do when you don't really have a boyfriend till your 19 and when that ONE boyfriend, when your girlfriends have had dozens, doesn't want to wear a condom. The school had not given her a way to deal with the actual confidence issues that accompany most of us into sexual relationships. I mean, how many of us have heard about guys buying condoms too large for them because they reach for the xx-large size just to make a point to the sales clerk? One of my friends got pregnant twice using birth control because the idiot she was with refused to buy the small size he actually needed.

The classes you describe sound appalling and I totally agree they would do any good. Teachers shouldn't be "droning on" about this subject, and the class should certainly cover self-esteem and the social dynamics that go along with sex. But sex education can be fun, interesting and effective.

I agree parents should have an in-depth conversation with their children about sex and relationships. But not every parent will, not every parent knows a lot about safe sex, and there is no harm in re-inforcing the message at school.

How can you not be fascinated by this subject when you are 10 or 11 and it is so taboo?

Apparently it is pretty easy. The kids all failed the basic terminology test and he goes to a charter school with some very bright kids. This is the one and only vocabulary test Michael has ever failed. Talking to the other moms in the parking lot, quite a few of their kids failed it too. The "star" in the class got a C -- mind you this is a kid doing 10th grade math in 6th grade so that was a pretty big deal. It was his mom that insisted the class be graded on a curve because she wasn't about to have his grade point average ruined over this class.

Yuri wrote:

But not every parent will, not every parent knows a lot about safe sex, and there is no harm in re-inforcing the message at school.

I don't mind the classes being taught at school and like I said my son has been through them. My point was that they work no better than abstinence only classes. And I think I know why and you mentioned it in your post: because some parents won't talk to their kids. The problem is not just that they won't talk to their kids, it is the underlying weirdness that that hides that is the real problem. Why won't they talk to their kids? Because they are embarrassed, because they think of sex as something taboo, because they are icked out about the subject. All that weirdness gets passed on to the kid without a word being said-- and that is why these kids are failing sex ed. And why the "education" doesn't really work.

Edited to add: Speaking of weirdness, there is a child that is severely retarded at my son's school. He is sweet as sugar, wonderful, friendly but has the mind of a two yr. old. He has a full time aid to help him get to his classes. One day, he tried to stop the aide from stepping on his foot by reaching back and touching her. He accidentally touched her breasts in doing this. (Mind you, the woman is an A cup so he has seen bigger breasts on his male gym teacher.) She freaked and put this boy in a time out. Freaked because a child touched her breast. She actually had to have someone cover for her for a few minutes to regain her calm. I talked to several people about the incident in my role of advocate. They all agreed it was a touch lasting less than five seconds. What do you think her actions told all the kids around them about sex?

The problem is not just that they won't talk to their kids, it is the underlying weirdness that that hides that is the real problem. Why won't they talk to their kids? Because they are embarrassed, because they think of sex as something taboo, because they are icked out about the subject. All that weirdness gets passed on to the kid without a word being said--

maggie b.[/quote]

Yes, it probably is weird if you swing into a direct conversation about sex when they are like, 13, but not so weird if you've been talking to them indirectly about borderline things since they were younger. I think my starting point was a TV show. Anyway, a great place to talk to kids is in the car! Conversation flows easily and they can't get up and leave. Hee. The car is great for talking and you can get what's going on in their heads too.

The problem is not just that they won't talk to their kids, it is the underlying weirdness that that hides that is the real problem. Why won't they talk to their kids? Because they are embarrassed, because they think of sex as something taboo, because they are icked out about the subject. All that weirdness gets passed on to the kid without a word being said--

maggie b.

Yes, it probably is weird if you swing into a direct conversation about sex when they are like, 13, but not so weird if you've been talking to them indirectly about borderline things since they were younger. I think my starting point was a TV show. Anyway, a great place to talk to kids is in the car! Conversation flows easily and they can't get up and leave. Hee. The car is great for talking and you can get what's going on in their heads too.[/quote]

Xina,

I did the same with mine. They can't escape you in a car! What I was trying to say, though, is not that talking about it is weird but that the attitude we have that this is something weird to talk about is weird. Or in other words talking about sex with child equals good and not talking about it with them equals child winding up with some strange ideas thanks to the fact mom and dad won't even talk about it.

I did the same with mine. They can't escape you in a car! What I was trying to say, though, is not that talking about it is weird but that the attitude we have that this is something weird to talk about is weird. Or in other words talking about sex with child equals good and not talking about it with them equals child winding up with some strange ideas thanks to the fact mom and dad won't even talk about it.

maggie b.
maggie b.[/quote]

Right. Got it, maggie. I agree. I guess just having an open enough relationship where they can come to you with questions about any number of things. It's good to have a go-to parent. I guess I was the appointed one in our house. Although, it took a lot to shock my husband. He was a wild boy growing up. I got the feeling that they didn't want to disappoint him, but they would always tell me the truth and whether or not I was angry, at least I knew what I was dealing with. Ah well...TMI, on my part...sorry. Got sidetracked. (as usual. )