What I had to realise, was that relationships were what they were (bad and dysfunctional in lot of things) not becuase of broken women, but because of my own inner beliefs. So looking for different kind of women is legit, but also investing time in inner work to see why you are attracted to these kind of women, is most probably neccesarry..

You may think you don't want something, but you feel internally attracted to it. I know I was and to some things still am

It takes 2, they were broken and so was I but they were on another level of crazy.

The first woman I ever fell in love with when I was a teenager was especially fucked up so naturally I gravitated towards women like her, I had no concept of self-worth at the time and was happy to have any connection. My first experience of a girlfriend was in high school, she was frustrated that I didn't know how to take it past kissing but she did nothing to instruct me either, she knew I had no experience, we never had sex during that time and she cheated on me after a week and had her friend dump me after walking past me with hickeys on her neck and some sweaty dude walking behind her (the dude that was fucking her).

Her and the other chick were my frame of reference for women in the affairs of the heart. Starting out like that was pretty shitty and I instilled some negative views about myself, I thought the way they treated me was a reflection of my worth as a person, that's at the crux of it I think. They screwed me up pretty bad, to the point where I didn't lose my virginity until over a decade later, finally got to that point thanks to Kidd.

So that's the treatment I expected, in my experience the fucked up ones are more proactive, for a guy like me who abhors doing any kind of work (I did too much work in the past and got jaded) this is great except for the bullshit that comes with it, it's not worth it.

Mature women who have their shit together and take the initiative would be a welcome change. I can spot the qualities I don't want and I know my worth, what it means to live by my terms and not compromise for anyone, not for pussy, not for a relationship, nothing.

Accountability is a healing thing, I know I chose some fucked up women to start with, how they treated me should have been no surprise. When your friends start telling you their first impression of an ex and none of those impressions are good, that just confirms it. When a buddy who's never met her sees one pic of her and says 'yeah she looks mental', I mean fuck, what more confirmation do you need.

_________________"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

I don't recommend starting from the place that everything that attracts you to these women, and everything going on inside of you around the topic, is because "the first woman was a mess, so she did this to me."

Not because it's necessarily not true, which it may be, but because it is not useful in moving forward.

It just gives a simple, "well that's why" satisfying answer that can shut down probing past it into all the interesting, good stuff underneath it.

Accountability is not about fault, you can simply be curious about the fact that attraction itself IS there and there is something that engages you on an emotional level. The actual experience of it is far more interesting than just "it's because the first girl was like that," and often times simply seeing the process happen from a place of separation from it can cut the cord.

I'm sure I'm not the only person who has experienced dramatic changes in taste as a result of letting go of emotional hooks. This includes food, relationships, general activities.

You don't need to exercise willpower to stay away from things or cut them off when they literally start to become unattractive to you, whether that's fast food or manipulative people. By looking at it from the inside out, you start operating from a higher energy, better place, better emotional state, however you like to think of it. You begin to become naturally more drawn to things that are good for you and them to you in a healthy, upward spiral.

If you hold this picture in mind you will move towards it. If you hold the picture of "not putting up with toxic women" in your mind, you will move towards that and look to exercise the power of attracting one in order to shut them down.

You don't need to exercise willpower to stay away from things or cut them off when they literally start to become unattractive to you, whether that's fast food or manipulative people. By looking at it from the inside out, you start operating from a higher energy, better place, better emotional state, however you like to think of it. You begin to become naturally more drawn to things that are good for you and them to you in a healthy, upward spiral.

Some rough notes for my Aristotle dissertation:

Quote:

(In EN 6.2 Aristotle says that the goal does not appear except to the virtuous (ii44a34) – this is why one cannot be wise without being good.
However, even akratic people have some grasp of the good goal from which they rebel (ii1a25-26) and so must the self-controlled. So how can it appear only to the good?)

Charles answer ( his interpretation of Aristotle) is that being virtuous and having correct and healthy desires is necessary to view the healthy and virtuous goal as a goal because viewing a ‘virtuous’ goal as a goal is to be attracted to it in the appropriate way (81). Therefore the self-controlled, while they may be attracted to it, will not have a healthy grasp on the correct goal. They might have unhealthy reasons for viewing the goal as correct that would make the goodness of the goal incidental. For example, they might act on the authority of others rather than workout the correctness of the goal for themselves (ii47a18-20), or they may expect to profit from behaving in a particular way (EE 1224b20-22). It would also mean that Aristotle’s remark that the self-controlled must stand by their opinions (ii46a17, 1151b6-7), is because they lack knowledge that the practically wise have attained via experience (1142a19-21).
Charles` interpretation is further backed up when Aristotle states that the self-controlled would experience pleasure in acting contrary to whatever grasp of a good goal they did have (ii51b35-ii52a3). This would be because the agent would not be acting for the sake of what is ‘good’ in a good goal, but for some other less healthy cause which could just as easily attach itself to an unhealthy goal. ----- But what is it about a good goal that causes the virtuous to become attached to it in a way that the self-controlled do not? ----- Charles believes that fineness/nobility is what Aristotle takes to be the thing within a good goal that a person will become attracted to (82).

"fineness/nobility" The term that A uses is "Kalon" which could (it can`t really) roughly be translated as divine beauty.

To spot this beauty look for the chance encounters, the patterns that you wouldn't ordinarily notice. The particularities of your circumstances (the women you meet for instance) point to the particularities of who you are. The world and society are like an ecosystem all timing and events matter (does this not sound like the observation work that the kidd mentioned?).

Accountability is not about fault, you can simply be curious about the fact that attraction itself IS there and there is something that engages you on an emotional level. The actual experience of it is far more interesting than just "it's because the first girl was like that," and often times simply seeing the process happen from a place of separation from it can cut the cord.

Are you talking about going into the feeling of when I was attracted to them and letting it pass like the other stuff?

Flow83 wrote:

If you hold this picture in mind you will move towards it. If you hold the picture of "not putting up with toxic women" in your mind, you will move towards that and look to exercise the power of attracting one in order to shut them down.

So rather, hold the picture of worthy women in my mind instead of trying to avoid the ones I don't want and I'll gravitate towards that.

_________________"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

During my introspection today I looked at my situations with these women from the outside in and saw layers, different dimensions to the interactions and was able to separate them.

One of my issues was lumping them all in one box by what they had in common, which is little, yes they were all crazy but that answer was too simplistic and not really addressing what was happening there. I can see how seeing them all as a collective experience is detrimental to my learning from these experiences, I needed to step outside of it so I could pick them apart.

Then some profound insight came to me from deep within. Curiosity, rather than judgment regarding my emotions helps those feelings pass but the more important thing is my attitude towards them has shifted and lead to understanding more about those situations.

It was easier for me to see all my experiences as a collective experience because I could then formulate a simple answer but I didn't have the answer because I had not really seen the situations for what they were, at least on that deeper level.

Coming from a place of knowing my worth, if there's something I don't agree with I need to walk away, everytime I walk away from an undesirable situation or something that demands that I would compromise my integrity or sell out on my principles I will be stronger, this will solidify my mindset and ultimately make me happier.

I didn't walk away when these girls asked for a relationship, I allowed the emotional part of myself to make the decision. I can see whole new dimensions to my situations now, and as I see these separately it's doing something good for me, the best way I can describe it, it's a deeper sense of self, an acknowledgment of myself, a deeper understanding of myself, I feel more grounded.

With this insight I'm grateful for this recent experience, I went to the darkest place I've been in years and through that I learned so much, there is still anger there but I'm ok with it and as I'm ok with it it's fading away. I can see what I was holding on to, the parts of me that needed satisfaction but would never get it, the attitudes that were holding me back.

I've befriended my demons, we'll see what happens from here.

Thank you all and have a great new year.

_________________"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

By walking away I meant saying no to relationships when the subject comes up.

_________________"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

Then some profound insight came to me from deep within. Curiosity, rather than judgment regarding my emotions helps those feelings pass but the more important thing is my attitude towards them has shifted and lead to understanding more about those situations.

Very good. That's direct observation, you are empty of your own pre-conceived answers and instead are just actually looking at what is really going on. Deeper things reveal themselves when you do this. It's no different for internal things like this than it is for observing external situations.

Quote:

So rather, hold the picture of worthy women in my mind instead of trying to avoid the ones I don't want and I'll gravitate towards that.

It's not necessary to try to hold onto a picture, it's more of a general sense of connecting to what actually matters to you in life and why you are doing any of this in the first place. When all of your mental and emotional energy is still fixated on the last manipulative women, or any situation like this in your life which can be unconscious if you aren't paying attention, you are more interested in recreating this experience so you can shut her down next time. I doubt your ultimate goal is to be shutting down manipulative women, but to be enjoying your life and whoever is in it. Shutting down a bad deal or ridiculous behavior is just an automatic response, not a big deal, and your attention simply returns to what actually matters.

The more clear you get, that all just becomes less interesting. If I offer you a deal to build 10 websites for me in exchange for an email that says "thank you " and some time to hang out with me, would you even remotely consider it, would you respond in any way other than to just laugh, and move on with your life? There's no emotional hook there, you just see it for what it is. Would you feel the need to show me what's what and exert your 'power' by explaining to me that your time is valuable and you're not going to put up with such a nonsense deal, but then post on internet forums about how I respond back? You just see the giant pothole in the road and move away. Or if you choose to engage you do it consciously.

Nice work man. It's been fun revisiting this during holiday times. Like 2016 I will not be on here much til next holiday or so. Best of luck to you and anyone else!

The more I distance myself from her existence in my mind, the more I see how shitty of a person she is.

I'm glad she's out of my life, she's a user and a fake.

I was just a fucktoy and whatever else to her, a thing to be used.

_________________"Simply put, you being in her life is a BLESSING. Her wronging you in any way is her own self-inflicted CURSE, and if she does wrong you, then let the punishment fit the crime. Her life will absolutely SUCK without you."

Very interesting Alchemist! Our experiences are similar but vastly different. But we have came to a conclusion that we both almost agree to. My intentional attempt moving forward from here is I will be giving this whole relationship thing a shot.

For the most part I know there are aspects to myself that I am still blind to, I see it as a chance to know myself in this aspect and perspective. We both have been staunch but I am willing to be more flexible mostly because I don’t want previous experience(s) to dictate my present and future.

Before I come to a final conclusion I am willing to put ALL of me into it. That means I will experience the pain, and I understand commitment isn’t bad it can actually be amazing when you persevere and stick around for the whole ride. I have and still working on my newly acquired value of my perspective of good and bad.

By the way nothing wrong with being vulnerable, I Didn’t understand Tha Kidd!! at first but it makes way more sense now. Vulnerability can be strength just like you can be excited about the unknown it all comes down to self knowledge and awareness, having faith and believing in yourself.

_________________~There's weakness in the hearts of all humans are you afraid to acknowledge yours... ~Mr. Todo

One thing I "realized" about myself, too much time I hide anger for example, whatever was that "negative emotion" caused by me or by others because <<it's not what a "good boy" is supposed to do>>...but it's just a little one, there are others.

_________________The more baggage you remove around yourself the more clearly you can perceive others - Altair

This sounds more apathetic, like this game of having to be the exceptional guy is too stacked against you, so fuck it. Someone who has come to a place of acceptance and indifference about the subject, the healthy 'fuck it' (there's a book with that title by the way that sounds very good) is very unlikely to say anything like parts of the above, because it isn't a ragequit, a whole new perspective emerges. It is a very peaceful place to be, zero bitterness. It is the result of a journey and not a posture. The whole game is largely a projection. It's very much there and tons of people are playing it, which is why the matrix is a good analogy, that doesn't make it 'real.' The closer you get to reality the more at peace you become with yourself and the world - the more that radiates and women who are right for you (and some others who aren't) will pro-actively make continued efforts to be with you, while you do absolutely nothing. Nothing exceptional, no clever facebook tricks or any of that stupid bullshit. There are enough people who have experienced this - it isn't a trick. It's even weird sometimes. It's even annoying sometimes. It's not this thing you would brag and make a big deal about at all unless you were trying to sell some shitty products. It feels more like a part of nature because IT IS.

For a while I could not believe this was possible because it's so "logical" that "women have all this choice so you have to be amazing." The irony is that it's like trying to be unique and special, everyone is doing it. You only aren't doing that when you *actually* have begun to let go of that and a quality emerges that is extremely rare. Someone who is in a situation and not dripping with ulterior motive, bitterness, something to prove, insecurity, all of this gets picked up - an enormous percentage of our brain is designed to pick up the feelings of others, and yes it IS a ton of work and game playing to put up a front that projects that through behavior.

There's a huge ability to relax and feel safe around a person actually in this space, which as part of nature, is a huge deal to humans.. as well as increasingly rare. Many people have never felt a moment of feeling totally secure and not judged, even in their own families. Even more significant for females biologically speaking. It is craved. People who begin doing serious work on themselves (real introspection and not just techniques to get laid) notice how much they *themselves* are craving it and how that was behind so much behavior, including the desire to be the so-called best option. The less it is projected the more it is found. People will be drawn to it despite 'better options' all around them to the surprise of all including you for a while. Nature trumps all. Of course not being a technique, you don't get to choose who feels this. However when armed with some awareness, savvy and skill you are a deadly combination among those who choose you.

It's also interesting that this response was to eldora, kind of a perfect mirror to what he put forward.

I don't know what you're up to today Alchemist. The feeling I had while re-reading this thread was you didn't really want to find a solution to your problem. You wanted more to be heard and to vent. I created threads in the past and had my head to far up my ass to even see the solutions others were giving me!

This forum has A LOT more to offer me than I first thought it did. I was "playing games" with myself as an active member here - teasing myself with the idea of change.

Shit here is A LOT more REAL than most of the things I experience outside from here. I want truth, well here it is.

I don't know what you're up to today Alchemist. The feeling I had while re-reading this thread was you didn't really want to find a solution to your problem. You wanted more to be heard and to vent.

Something that often gets judged, but is a natural human need. Some people need to vent to clear the energy. Some people want to explain things to another person so that the person shares their emotion and sees where they're coming from. Etc.

No need to see it as any less noble than going straight for the solution. Everybody has a process, and it's often best to let them go through it.

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