no boundaries, no filter, no worries…..

Another Solution To Shoot Down

One of the things we hear from the slaughterphiles the most is the screeching about how slaughter is going to give dignity and use to all these mysterious unwanted horses and how the rest of us, the antis, won’t step up and offer solutions. Never mind the fact that largest contributors to the `unwanted’ horse population seems to be slaughterphiles and that they certainly are not exempt from abusing and neglecting their horses *cough*dorothyrobertson*cough*. Other than kill and eat them, I have yet to see a single PSA offer any alternative solution or accept a shred of responsibility for the existing problems. By and large, they hate rescues unless said rescue supports slaughter. They think that if there will never be slaughter again, that all the unwanted, neglected, and starving horses should be dumped off on the lawns of anti-slaughter people. Obviously, not a realistic or viable solution, but they refuse to accept the inevitable or look at alternatives. When a viable alternative is presented, they work double-time trying to shoot it down, claiming a violation of their property rights and waving the confederate flag. Well, guess what? Somehow in our quest to address the problems that even PSAs agree on, we have managed to offend their delicate sensibilities once again.

News has come out recently that the HSUS if forming a “‘Responsible Horse Breeders Council”. Yeah, I know. If the HSUS is involved that automatically means it’s all kinds of evil and you must immediately put on your tinfoil beanie to prevent the constant bombardment of conspiracy theories from polluting your mind. Whatever. The goal of this council will be “to decrease the number of horses in the United States who are at risk of being neglected, abused, or slaughtered for human consumption.” I don’t know about you, but I can’t really see this as a bad thing. I see this as a some anti-slaughter people stepping up with solutions. They are trying to address over breeding of horses by having breeders voluntarily be added to their list. This means the breeder will take responsibility should that horse become homeless or at risk for being abused or sent to slaughter. Nobody is telling any horse owner/breeder they must sign up, it’s voluntary. You can read more about it here : http://www.thehorse.com/articles/31238/responsible-horse-breeders-council-formed. Is it going to fix everything? No, but it’s a start. Many of the larger Thoroughbred breeders already have a similar policy in place. It works. It makes you want to do business with them.

While I’m sure many of you agree that this idea for a breeder’s council is a pretty good one, you shouldn’t be surprised to know that it has bunched some panties with the PSAs. For your amusement and disgust, here is a selection of comments from the UH brain trust.

“If you’re a horse breeder, do you feel you should be responsible for the horses you sell from birth to death? HSUS thinks you should be. But remember…horses can live 30+ years. And how will this affect our rights to private property and animal ownership?”

– This comment is courtesy of Mindy `Puppymill’ Patterson. I would like to know how she thinks that anybody volunteering to be added to a list will affect HER rights to private property and animal ownership. If you don’t agree and want to carry on being an irresponsible dickhead, by all means, don’t sign up and continue contributing the problem.

“I have been a horse breeder for 30+ years. Of course we can’t be responsible for what others do with ‘our’ horses after they leave our premises!”

– Did I mention that PSAs have a huge problem with reading comprehension? Nobody is going to hold anybody `responsible’ for what somebody else has done. They are asking you to step up and do the right thing by animals you have bred and put out there. You could choose to bring them home and euthanize them humanely even. Or, you could choose not to be responsible and go on with your bad self. I’m beginning to sound like a broken record…

“No. The reason a breeder raises horses to sell is to fill a market niche. If you are limited on your selling, you’d not be able to do your job as a responsible breeder.

Those who’re responsible are raising the best possible horses they can, research genetic diseases, and do their best to make a positive contribution. But HSUS is determined to remove private ownership of all species, not just horses. If breeders sign up for this, they’re tilting at windmills.”

– If you truly are raising the best horses you can and are not over breeding, then you probably won’t get that many that need your help. Nowhere in this article do I see anything about it affecting private ownership of horses, let alone all species.

“With the 3 largest stock breeding paying out incentives to breeders, stallion owners and mare onwers, does the HSUS expect to wag the dog. I know they have lobby powers and cash up the ying yang, but we are talking AQHA here boys and girls. Turn them loose. Who has the moxie to tell them good ol boys who can or cant breed and how many to allow or not”

– Ahhh, yes. The good ole AQHA. The breed that just happens to be one of the favorites of horse eaters and the association that supports slaughter. Way to value your product! The same breed that allowsthe breeding and registration of horses with HYPP, HERDA etc. Conditions that could be bred out of that breed within one generation should they just close the books on breeding stock that tests positive. No, wouldn’t expect that association nor the APHA with their OLWS Russian breeding roulette that they allow to go on to come on board with something like this.

“I think the Jockey Club has a program called the Breeders Cup program that has the richest 2 day or horse racing in the world fed by owners, breeders and trainers that know the gamble and game better than any HSUS flunky ever dreamed of.”

– I’m not sure what the Breeders Cup has to do with any of this, but the Jockey Club has adopted an anti-slaughter stance. As I have stated, many of the larger TB breeders already do have programs or mandates in place to deal with their former horses and keep them out of the slaughter pipeline. Three Chimneys, for example, will go one further and assist with the rescue/rehab of a horse that is merely sired by one of their stallions whether that horse was ever on their farm or not. Thoroughbreds also have several dedicated rescues just to deal with racehorses once their careers at the track are over. They probably don’t have a problem with being on a list of responsible breeders at all. Nice try though.

“And then we have a great industry of purposely bred horses for consumption. These horses have been selectively bred, culled, fed and studied to meet a standard of excellence that is not different than Wagyū or Black Angus cattle. Explain to these very affluent business people that the horses that they produce and fly live to Asian markets at double digits per pound can’t do that any more because they have to provide a birth to natural death life promise. Hell Dane likely cant even extort that kind of promise from his own Family members.”

– Way to shoot yourself in the foot! According to the IEBA and UH, slaughter is for unwanted horses, so that they don’t have to suffer and go to waste. Now this idiot is suggesting that there is a booming business of breeding horses specifically for consumption? Which is it?

“As a breeder I do not believe I need to be responsible for the horse, dog, goat, duck, or what ever I raise and sell until it’s death. The new owner is responsible for the animal after it leaves the property. I may on occasion make a deal with the new owner to have the option to buy the animal back, but that depends on the situtations. This is like telling someone that raises beef cattle or hogs for meat sale that they need to be aware of where the animal is at all times. That’s like telling a parent that once their child hits 18 and moves out that they are responsible for every thing their child does until they die. Hogwash!!!”

– Really? As breeders we keep track of the horses that leave our property. If we found one to be in a bad situation, we would absolutely do the right thing by it because we care. Not because we are responsible for that bad situation, but we care about the animals we bring into this world. Even if it was in such bad shape that it was suffering, we would gladly take one back to euthanize it humanely. Lucky for us, we don’t flood the market, nor do we breed crap so those situations don’t really come up for us.

“Animals are private property. Under that premise, the new owners are responsible. This proposal by HSUS opens up a huge can of worms. I posted this on The Cavalry Group Facebook page as well, and someone brought up the important point that if something like this were to take hold, what would keep them from limiting the age of breeders to prevent them from breeding past a certain age? Scary precedent.”

– This was from Puppymill Patterson again. She’s right about one things, the new owners ARE responsible for the animals they buy. However, what happens when you sell one to somebody like Dorothy Robertson and it ends up in dire straits? Are you ok, just shrugging it off and saying it’s not your problem anymore? Legally it’s not your problem, but many people would probably want that horse back or at least have a hand in seeing that it was not suffering. Hell, maybe they would throw a rescue a few dollars to help with rehabilitating the animal.

“I have taken horses back after they have been gone for years. Life changes and sometimes the horse is no longer part of that life. I will take back their horse and give it a foreverhome or place it in a good home if I can. That horse was foaled here and if it needs help in life I will try to be there for it.”

– Thank you. That is all anybody is asking. If every single breeder did this, there would be no need for slaughter. Think about it.

” Before this thread takes a turn for the worse….I breed to MAKE MONEY. Sorry guys, it’s a business and we have a business plan set up. I’m not going to keep something around that doesn’t have a job or potentially can make money.”

– I know that this particular `breeder’ actually works at Wal-Mart. Want to see the kind of stock she is putting out there? I wonder how that `making money’ thing is working out for her…

One of this breeder’s yearlings

One of the above `breeder’s’ stallions.

I guess I’m not surprised at the puffing out of chests and paranoid ramblings of the UH PSAs given that they have Puppymill Patterson fanning the flames. They seem to not grasp the concept that nobody is forcing anybody to sign up on this list. One of them suggested this list is 5yrs old and was sold to the HSUS. I don’t know that to be true. Given the challenges many PSAs have with the English language, I will wait for a reputable source to weigh in on that. What I do know is that breeders on this list (allegedly over 800) should be praised for doing the right thing. Each and every time you breed a mare, you should ask yourself who is going to want that foal and do you have the funds to raise and train it properly so that it will attract your target buyers. If you truly are breeding for a legitimate market demand and are breeding quality stock, then you probably won’t see very many, if any, of your stock in dire straits. I know it can happen to any horse, but those are not the usual cases. I think the real problem PSAs have with this list is that many of them breed complete and utter junk and they dump them wherever they can. They realize that if they ever signed onto something like this, they would be inundated with `returns’. There is one way to prevent that. Stop breeding anything and everything with a uterus. My question to these people is; why do you even have and/or breed horses if you don’t care what happens to them? Wouldn’t there be far less suffering and problems if people like the PSAs just stuck to inanimate objects?

Advertisements

Share this:

Like this:

Related

40 Responses

“I think the real problem PSAs have with this list is that many of them breed complete and utter junk and they dump them wherever they can. They realize that if they ever signed onto something like this, they would be inundated with `returns’. There is one way to prevent that. Stop breeding anything and everything with a uterus. ”

I couldn’t have said this better myself. That is the plain and simple truth of the matter, wrapped in a nutshell.

It never ceases to amaze me just exactly how ignorant these idiots are.

Anyone with half a functioning brain knows how expensive, time consuming and risky the equine breeding biz is, especially for quality and performance.

My interpretation of a PSA breeding program is a stallion (too cheap or poor to geld with visions of “cutting horse of the year” dancing thru their heads) turned out with a couple of mares with NO performance records, no business model, no capital behind a rickety barbed wire fence sprinkled with junk.

LOL! I think you pretty much nailed it. Or, at least you did for the more wealthy PSAs…..The other version is your buddy BillyBob gave you a pregnant mare in payment for working on his old beater of a truck. The mare then has a colt which you never bother to cut or wean and then….BOOM….all of a sudden you’ve got yourself a breeding program when he grows up and breeds his own mama!

Yes, I forgot to mention how the shithead breeder/PSA got the stud in the first place (and the mare).

The fairytale is complete….save for how those poor equine souls wind up starving, emaciated or the fair to fat ones (probably with illness or injury) that are sent to “Billy Bob” the kb or the local shithole auction yard that doubles as a feedlot awaiting the kb (where they really don’t do a good job of watering, feeding, treating the sick and lame animals).

Responsible breeders do keep up with the horses they sell, from birth to end. What asshole sells a horse to a place not knowing what kind of people they’re selling to? I know breeders who, when they sell their horses, have a contract in place that the horse be sold back to them rather than someone else. They keep up with their horses and often sell within a circuit to people they know and trust. That is responsible breeding.

Sadly, you are right. The only thing that list does is give potential buyers a data base on who to do business with. The people on it probably already have a conscious and do the right thing for the most part.

I actually saw one that thought it meant that the breeder would be coming to check up on you all the time. It doesn’t mean that at all. Hell, I kept in touch with the breeder of one of my horses for most of his life. I had nothing to hide and she was happy to know he had such a good home.

I still stay in touch with all of my rescue horses former care takers, not because i have to but because i want to and i consider them friends. I also consult one of them when i have things that i wasn’t info on…networking is a wonderful thing.

This is all so very important.. When I went to the feed lot I saw a baby still with her pink blanket.. Old sweet geldings with tags .. For shipment leave their hay for some human attention.. I only saw sweetness in the horses .. They had no idea because they are so innocent .. We can’t let them down

Out of ALL the cold hearted breeders’, owners, equine industry. I think the Nurse Mares’ Industry is just about the worst of the worst. I can’t imagine, what kind of dark soul, it would take for a person to be able to, rip a mother from a foal, thus leaving the foal somewhere to die of exposure, dehydration, and or starvation and to only be concerned with, the monetary aspect of this particular Industry. It’s beyond my ability to comprehend how anyone, can justify this hidious predatory business, and claim that they “love” their animals…

Why this business, is even allowed to exist, and have the support of our tax system, is a mystery to me? Other than under dire straits, absolute emergency conditions, should this even be tolerated… After all we Don’t allow drug dealers, (above the ground that is) in this country, to be considered a legal and legit business. Why would we then allow, the scums of the scum, to operate legitimately as a honorable business and reap all the benefits through tax incentives, financial incentive with organization such as AQHA, APHA. When did we get so cruel?? None of this is a legitimante necessar evil scenario, due to the fact that man has created this problem, and it is in most cases not needed. It’s only due to the greed, within, this industry, that man himself, desires’ these Mares’ back in action, so soon after they have given birth…

The indifference of these type of people-business, (again, I use the term loosely ) to the suffering and consequences to the throw away foals is just unreal.

Yet, these same “cough” people want US to respect their livestyle, and their what?? Property Rights, to torture, and do at will what they deem to be their rights……… It’s always the crook, that yells the loudest, when their rights are thus taken away, and or trampled on….

I agree that the nurse mare industry is a nasty little secret. It used to be if you lost a foal through natural circumstances, you could `register’ your mare so that if anybody else lost a mare, they might be able to be paired up. Kind of a win from a loss situation. But, as always greed overtakes everything and now you have people breeding specifically for having nurse mares and their foals are by-products. Not every nurse mare owner is sheer evil and knocks the babies on the head. Some actually will bottle raise them or give them to somebody that will. It’s still a sad situation for the baby and those are horses that tend to grow up not very well socialized and not knowing boundaries. With some of the big money in breeding for various breeds, I really don’t know the answer.

The sad thing is that there are good people out here that have to shoulder the responsibility for these breeders who just don’t give a shit about their animals and what they cause to come to the world. We know that the masters don’t ask for it and the foals don’t ask to be born. I’m not a breeder and even if i was i would not be breeding in this economy. These PSAs seem to be the least educated r knowledgeable of any horse person that i know. They try to shift blame to back yard breeders but they are the source of any problems. All i can say is thank God for the rescuers and I’m glad that the HSUS has come up with a plan. I applaud those breeders who signed on..

I’ll never be anti-breeding across the board. I’m anti-junk breeding though. It most certainly isn’t a get rich quick business. I am ok with horses being bred for competition and purpose as long as those horses are being treated humanely. I just don’t think that everybody can afford to have a horse nor is it a God given right to own one. Ever since the industrial revolution, having a horse has largely become a luxury and that’s fine too. Let’s get back to supply and demand.

Again, I am against the nurse mare industry. Never have used one and never will. It’s big money for some people and nobody really shines enough light on what is really going on there.

The biggest obstacle is PSAssholes will never consider anything an animal rights/welfare organization creates. They’re against them from the start because they believe the propaganda Berman and his like puts out (even though a second grader could see right through it). If the NRA had suggested the same they would support it in a second. Greedy, selfish blind leading the greedy, selfish blind.

PSAsses are anti-rescue and dang proud of it, that’s been shown time and time again. It proves them wrong and makes them feel guilty for their actions. They blame rescues for not solving the “problem” yet they’re free to breed anything with a uterus. That just shows their simple minded stupidity. It’s everyone else’s fault but those that contribute to the overpopulation. Their right to cause harm is more valued than the wellbeing of another.

They were anti-PETA when PETA was supporting slaughter and are against the 360 Fund proposal even though many that were actually involved with the racing industry were for it; they’re such sheep they don’t even know what they’re parroting (no offense to sheep or parrots intended).

If a breeder isn’t willing to stand behind their product for its lifetime they’re not putting out quality and need to find another hobby. One that doesn’t result in suffering and death.

Always amusing and a bit surprising to see what she’ll take offense to. Kinda like her buddy Naughty Tobiano. Currently NT is pissed off about the Budweiser Super Bowl commercial. She thinks it promotes an unrealistic view to the public on animal behavior and how they are raised. I wish I was joking about that. I guess she’d really get pissed if she came to our farm, because we do raise our horses with a lot of love and attention. Each and every one.

Haven’t been here in a while, but this is a good time to come back. 🙂 You all know I’m PSA, but I agree 100% that this is a total step in the right direction, regardless of what breed association you are in with. We got out of breeding for all the reasons listed…it’s expensive, it’s risky, and it’s just not worth it to me to spend that much money to get a colt that’s worth $200. As far as taking a horse back that I sold, in the last 5 years I’ve sold 5…4 of which I never care to see again but 1 I would take back in a heart beat. I keep in contact with the person who bought her in an effort to exercise my “first right of refusal” clause that came with her transfer. Responsibility is going to be the key in any solution in this controversy, that I think is a point that can be agreed upon by all here.

Yes, and if you weren’t realizing profit or covering your expenses, thank you for stopping breeding while the market is down. The problem with that solution for many of your counterparts is that means that there will be fewer cheap horses to pick up and flip like many want to do and being in the horse business becomes a game for people with a larger disposable income. I have no problem with that as I don’t see it as a God given right to own a horse. Many PSA types think otherwise.

I agree what a wise choice to stop breeding .. Even more if 4 out of 5 would not be welcome back.. That was a point I tried to make earlier about how many are breed to get perfect .. Well perfect doesn’t happen .. Unless you love your horse and over look imperfections .. Like you do for your husbands

Haha the 4 that weren’t welcome back were none we bred, but ones we had picked up in my search for the next show horse (which would be the 5th horse that I would welcome back with open arms in a heart beat). 1) Was a crippled, non capable of reproducing Waggoner Ranch bred mare that was as dumb as a rock, 2) was a 3 year old son of Conquistador Whiz that was out to kill me (3 concussions and I decided he needed to move on), 3) was a small mare that I just didn’t click with, found her a good home and they love her, and 4) was the ugliest, worse built, paint horse named Throw Up that you could ever imagine. Found him a feed yard job. 🙂

You are right .. I hope I didn’t hurt
Her feeling.. I have never breed horses but if I had I’m sure I would have had favorites .. But if I was responsible for bringing a life into the world I would feel responsible for it.. I know their is only so much you can do.. But her reasoning was fiscal not anything more .. But in the end it’s the same result.. So it’s a good thing

Anything backed by HSUS can’t be good. Wayne Pacelle wants to end all domestic animal breeding. All of the legislative focus/lobbying focuses on influencing the limitation of breeding…dogs, cats, horses…even cattle.