Kit Harington slips up, Gwendoline Christie teases a season 6 fight, and more

Interviews with Game of Thrones actors have been popping up online including new ones with Kit Harington, Gwendoline Christie, and Nathalie Emmanuel. The Kit interview with Humo, a Belgian magazine, has an especially revealing tidbit. His and Gwendoline’s interviews are behind a paywall but thankfully, fans have shared their access (and translations) with the world to everyone’s benefit.

Let’s start with the colorful and fun style interview from The Sunday Times with Gwendoline Christie. Although they dwell a tad too long on her laugh, there are some nice bits about season 6, her life story and what attracted her to Game of Thrones. About the ASOIAF book series she says (from a fan site transcription of the interview):

I thought they were fabulous because there were so many women in leading roles. All sorts of women, not just whores or princesses, but princesses who were whores. Evil women. Brilliant, clever, strong women. Women who could be mothers and murderers.

Gwendoline also thought they would ditch that variety when it was translated to television.

But they didn’t, and it is the one action drama that is led by women. There is a lot of sex, but they also get to kill people and make decisions, and be dictators and pick flowers, and have dragons and get their tits out.

As for season 6, Christie shared with the Sunday Times that she’d just been filming and had “been fighting for three whole days, three entire days without ceasing or desisting. Really vicious, vicious, up-close, thuggish fighting.” When asked who the fight was with, or who had won, the actress wouldn’t tell.

There’s some personal info in the interview as well. Did you know she started out in rhythmic gymnastics? It certainly explains her ability to move so well in fight scenes. As anyone with a fighting background will tell you, it’s not just how strong or fast you are–a lot of it is how you move your feet and your balance. It just goes to show you how perfect Gwendoline Christie was for the role of Brienne. I certainly couldn’t imagine anyone else playing her.

When we last left Nathalie Emmanuel‘s Missandei, her character, Grey Worm and Tyrion were left to “rule” Meereen when Daenerys flew off on the back of Drogon to parts unknown. Nathalie characterizes the triumvirate as a kind of “Three’s Company”.

You’ve got Tyrion who is just so comical, and then Missandei, who is very straight and collected, and very internal with her feelings, and then Grey Worm (Jacob Anderson), who is almost emotionless altogether, as far as we’re aware… So to put those two characters with a guy who just talks a lot, and is so funny, and is a bit of a drunk, a bit of a womanizer — it’s setting up for a really interesting dynamic.

And finally, according to a Reddit commenter who was able to translate the Dutch-language interview, it appears that Kit Harington revealed more than he probably intended to about his return for Season 6 and beyond. He said, in an interview with Humo [transcription from Reddit]:

Kit: The important thing is that I now know exactly how long I am still under contract, and in the meantime-

Interviewer: How many more seasons would that be?

Kit: Nice try (laughs). I can’t talk about that. Let’s just say that Game of Thrones will remain a part of my life for a while, I’ll probably be in my thirties when it’s over. One thing’s for sure: the day I’m no longer on Thrones is the day I’ll bury myself in movie projects (laughs).

This is not earth shattering news as we previously reported Kit has been seen on set and filming for Season 6. But it is the first time he himself indicated that he would be continuing with the show.

Nodor:
What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder and stronger

That’s what she said… (sorry, couldn’t resist – and *someone* had to say it!). 😀

Interesting tidbits from Ms. Christie! I hope the fight she mentioned is the same battle of the North we’ve been hearing bits and pieces about. Nice slip-up from Mr. Harington, too. 😀 Good to know he’s under contract for at least another couple seasons. 😀

Three’s Company… at least she didn’t compare it to the Three Stooges as far as the dynamic is concerned. 😀

Fortunately it’s not gonna happen,they didn’t cast Euron,made the Kingsmoot and all that just so Brienne can kill him in his first season.They will set him as a danger for Dany,maybe he will steal a dragon or something at some point.Sure,Brienne can still kill Euron later but I hope she dies sooner than that,this Terminator Brienne show thing it’s allready to much for me,I’d rather watch Grey Worm and Missandei every episode.

I just saw that the big KL scene is in ep 5 or 6 which means that Jaimie will head to RL after that and you are probably right that there will be a reunion with Brienne. It will be interesting to find out if Sansa will join Brienne team to RL or if she will head to the Wall and meet Jon. But Sansa is the only one apart from Theon who can inform Jon about Rickon and Bran unless Rickon’s comeback will happen without Davos looking for him. Intriguing all this…

Snake:
Does anyone know when exactly the Kit interview took place? It sure sounds like it’s an old one. Otherwise, Kit just made a big boo boo.

My native language is Dutch, but I can only read the first part because you have to pay for the rest.
The interview was done recently in Paris.
Does anyone here know when Kit did a promotion tour for Testament of Youth in Paris?

I’ve been thinking this as well. I don’t know that Jaime will get his complete Riverlands arc this season so much as he’ll pass through the Riverlands on the way North to help see to the demise of House Bolton. I don’t think Cersei will trust Littlefinger enough to take Winterfell alone, so sending Jaime does three things: 1) gets him away from her since I’m pretty sure she can’t stand to look at him after he loses Myrcella and now apparently sees to Margaery’s release 2) helps ensure in her mind that “justice” will be done to Sansa Stark and 3) means that Jaime and Brienne will finally meet again per the books!

I’m sure though that Jaime will spend at least some time in the Riverlands given that he’s been seen in Iceland where Riverlands stuff was filmed. He might even be the character who meets Septon Meribald and hears the Broken Man monologue in Brienne’s stead, which I think would be really cool.

If the interview was done at the same time Kit was doing interviews for his movies that had not come out on mainland Europe yet (Testament of Youth started in places this past weekend, Spooks opens later this month) then the interview was done mid-August and just released this weekend.

I’m pretty sure Gwendoline’s fight scene is actually either her and Pod fighting Boltons in an early episode (one guy playing “Bolton officer” added her and Daniel Portman on twitter). Which was shot back in July. Or a fight with the Lachlan-Flynn-Japeth crowd, the pseudo-BWB, who shot fight scenes in August IIRC. I’m pretty sure Gwendoline hasn’t been in NI of late for the Snowbowl shooting. Which is going on for a lot longer than 3 days btw…

Does anyone think that this Lachlan and his gang of outlaws could in fact be Howland Reed and a group of loyal crannogmen/Stark loyalists? And that Ian McShane will play Lachlan and perhaps rescue Sansa and Theon from the pursuing Boltons (maybe Brienne and Pod too) and pull an Arstan and reveal to Sansa Jon’s new parentage?
Or is that just a “that would be cool” scenario and only that?

It is an option. But then what will Davos do at the Wall for a whole season? Ok Jon’s resurrection is one thing probably early on in S6 and then WF battle in the end. What will they do up there for so long? I also have a feeling that Davos will not survive the WF battle if he is in it…

Chilli: My native language is Dutch, but I can only read the first part because you have to pay for the rest.
The interview was done recently in Paris.
Does anyone here know when Kit did a promotion tour for Testament of Youth in Paris?

I’m not in France or anything, but he has to have recently been in France, as “Testament of Youth” opens on 23 September in France. It makes sense that a promotion tour would’ve happened in the last couple weeks or so.

It’s possible the interview had been done before season 5 aired, so he couldn’t have answered any other way since Jon was still alive at that point. This interview doesn’t add to the pile of evidence that he’s coming back.

If he’s not going to Last Hearth to find Rickon, then he’ll likely stay on as one of Jon’s advisers. He’ll probably clash with Mel a lot, and try to keep Jon from becoming Stannis 2.0. I imagine he’ll also have some questions about what actually happened to Stannis, and perhaps more importantly to him… what happened to Shireen.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Davos kills Mel at some point, especially if she really starts sinking her claws into Jon and he finds out that she killed Shireen… although I doubt it will happen this season, since she’ll likely be there when the Northerners retake Winterfell per her fire visions. It could happen in the season finale after the battle is over perhaps.

It’s just like I’ve thought from the very beginning, of both books and show. Jon is THE endgame. My faith has never wavered! He’s the hero we all want and deserve. He’s going to save the world!
And then settle down and make lots of babies with beautiful hair. lol

Very intrigued as to who Brienne will fight. It’s up close, thuggish fighting, so it sounds almost like the one with The Hound in S4. This time the outlaw band in the Riverlands?
Nathalie mentions Three’s Company; what happens to Varys? Does he leave Meereen soon after the season premiere?

I just don’t understand the show-Brienne hate. Some people act as if they take the fact that a woman can kick ass as a personal affront. They say it’s because she’s so different from the books but she isn’t. They have her meet and confront different characters in the books but she isn’t different as far as who and what she is IMHO. The animosity seems to be rooted in something other than just book differences. Makes me want her to kill off more popular characters even more (and yeah, I can be a spiteful bitch like that).

Translation
HUMO: You will return in the sixth season, you still have your long Jon Snow hair, even now the filming season 5 has long been finished. That means you are still expected on set.
Harington: Or maybe I’m just attached to the my hair style (smiles)

Mihnea,
I totally agree. TBH I really disliked Stannis in the books and in the show but I thought Dillane was fantastic in the role. I’m sorry to see such a great character go but it was time. What more could Stannis do at that point? I think his end in TWOW will be similar. So his exit was very appropriate and it made sense to me. It’s actually one of the few times that Justice is actually served to anyone who had done something wrong on the show. We need that kind of payoff once in a while. And I’m glad that Brienne gets to have that too. I believe she will end tragically as well and it’s nice to let her have a triumph of some sort since she’s failed on all her missions so far (as they made very plain on the show).

He has stated many times over the past few years that he wants to cut his hair very badly and doesn’t like it so long. I’m betting the minute GOT filming is done in S8, he’ll go really short. I’d even bet actual money on it (and I NEVER gamble).

Kay:
Very intrigued as to who Brienne will fight. It’s up close, thuggish fighting, so it sounds almost like the one with The Hound in S4. This time the outlaw band in the Riverlands?

Based on my theory that D&D are stalling for time by “doubling back” in certain storylines to stall for time for at least part of the season, Brienne having the knock-down, drag-out fight with outlaws she had under different circumstances in AFFC certainly fits in with that theory.

To be fair, there is at least some material that appears to be from TWOW:

1. Dany: stint with the Dothraki
2. Arya: theatre troupe, end of association with FM, return to the Riverlands
3. KL: whatever happens after Margaery being turned over by the Faith
4. The Hound: he’s back!
5. North: huge battle between various factions for control of the North
6. Winterfell: Littlefinger bringing Vale troops there
7. Dorne: having someone in KL on the inside
8. Jon: being revived from the dead, obvs

And there are some possible non-book storylines that are just stalling for time without any relation to the books:

1. Sansa: who the hell knows anymore, seriously

Still, it looks like a big chunk of story in Season 6 will be D&D doubling back to cover ground skipped over the first time. It looks like the big TWOW developments will happen in the last two or three episodes (Arya back in the Riverlands, huge North battle, etc.).

Her presence at the Wall doesn’t make narrative sense. I think Greenjones is right. Brienne will head to RL. Jaime will be at KL until ep 7 then he will also head to RL too. They will meet again at some point there. The scene that Gwendoline refers to sounds more like a fight than like a battle. BwB most probably.

While they will cover some moments from AFFC and ADWD, I don’t expect them to linger on them. Take the Kingsmoot, it will happen, but afterwards I think Euron will go straight to his TWOW stuff, or perhaps even ADOS.

I know a lot of people expect him to attack Oldtown, but I expect him to head straight to Dany.

I am not gonna get into details,it’s all in the books,but by many laws of Westeros Brienne could be considered a traitor,a turncloack,a murderer and so on.Depends who you ask.A rope around her neck suits her just fine if you ask me.
I just wanted to say that the fact that she is a woman has nothing to do with the fact that I dislike her character.In my top 10 favourite characters from the show five of them are Arya,Mel,Cersei,Marge,Olenna.

I somewhat disagree with this, yes some storylines in the begining will be stil in AFFC/ADWD, but by the end they will be well in TWOW

1. Kingsmoot is from AFFC/ADWD, but Theon there certanly is not.
2. This is 1 chapter from AFFC, him meating his family is TWOW.
3. The casting was proven fake by Sue. And I don’t expect Jaime’s plot from AFFC here, I may be wrong, but I’m willing to bet money that he will not lift the siege of Riverrun.
4.Brienne had no shightings, it it Jaime we know is returning to the riverlands, with Bron. I fully expect, and on this I have litle to no doubt, that if there is to be a Maribald monologue, it will be Jaime who hears it.
5. Here I agree, But there is also what D&D said, about making it like The Return of the Jedi, skiping the Training and just showing as direcly the results, but I am not so certain here.
6.He is already dead, him going after the Boltons will be at most 1 or to scenes that are from AFFC, the rest is entirely TWOW.
7. I would put this under original storyline, as there is no siege, no war..And Expect Tyrions storyline to be very different from Barry’s in ADWD.
8. This one is tricky, no Mandarly but Smalljon, who is dead in the books, Rickon with the Umber rether then Skagos, Sansa there, knowing he lives,.. So I would put this under ”original storyline, with something from TWOW” not ADWD as its vastly different.
9. agree somewhat here, altough she already had a chapter from TWOW in the last season. And her going to westeros is definetly TWOW meterial

While they will cover some moments from AFFC and ADWD, I don’t expect them to linger on them. Take the Kingsmoot, it will happen, but afterwards I think Euron will go straight to his TWOW stuff, or perhaps even ADOS.

From what we know of the director’s episodes, the Kingsmoot takes place in 6×05 or 6×06. That’s halfway or more than halfway through the season. Assuming that is followed by raids on the Reach, as in the books, we’re still stuck in AFFC. So we know that the Greyjoy plot won’t get into TWOW material until 6×06 or 6×07, if at all, and that seems unlikely as there is more AFFC material past the Kingsmoot.

It would be really helpful from a spoiler perspective if someone assembled the information regarding all the sightings on sets of the various directors and then constructed some sort of summary tying the scenes they were filming to the episodes (1×01 or 1×02, e.g.). *looks around hopefully*

Dame Pasty,
I like Brienne a whole lot! I love the Brienne-Pod dynamic. And for me it was a deeply satisfactory moment when Brienne chopped off Stannis’ head. 😀

M: It looks like the big TWOW developments will happen in the last two or three episodes

Not for ALL the characters. Certainly not for Daenerys right from the get-go, or Tyrion (Red Priestess etc.) or all the Tyrells, theater troupe, etc. Of course, not having read the books myself, I may be completely off. I think it’s more the case that S6 will double back to pick up some of the interesting threads still left to cover, not for any intention of stalling for time.

I’m not so sure. That translation a few comments up mentions season 5 being finished filming but it doesn’t mention that it had aired. I suspect this interview was done a while ago but was held onto until the movie was released there. Kit did publicity for this movie many months ago for other markets. In which case, he was in a double tight spot about what he could say.

WHY would Brienne go to the Riverlands? Why would this happen? Why would Brienne purposely leave Sansa in the North, by herself, to resume a book plot where she’s looking…for Sansa. Explain this to me.

Yes. We should also remember that that new Frey being cast for this season has a three episode arc which gives us an idea of how long Jaime will be there in s6, now that we know he’ll be in KL until ep. 606.

Woah don’t say things you’ll end up regretting later. I for one agree with u about Brienne but you’d rather deal with GW@M over her?! That’s taking it a step too far. I would’ve been totally fine if messandei stayed in the river and we check in on her every episode to make sure she’s nice and clean

I found Stannis interesting,…but I also found Ned interesting and Robb.

Eh. Opinions differ, but in my opinion that was a fitting end for Stannis and I’m glad they didn’t leave the bettle for Winterfell on a cliffhanger like Martin did.
Stannis dying by Brienne’s hands was just a fitting end for me, I was sad, but I alo found it a good end.

I was thinking on similar lines. If they are going to introduce Howland Reed they have to give him something to do. Maybe that could involve working with some outlaws to string up Freys, performing some of LS story. And maybe McShane’s role rather than Meribald.

RosanaZugey:
WHY would Brienne go to the Riverlands? Why would this happen? Why would Brienne purposely leave Sansa in the North, by herself, to resume a book plot where she’s looking…for Sansa. Explain this to me.

I can’t think of that many compelling in-text reasons–apart from “Sansa sends her away” or “they get unexpectedly separated”–but from a meta perspective, D&D will probably be trying to get her back on track with her book arc, after taking Brienne very far afield, just like Jaime is going to the Riverlands after going very far afield in Season 5. I’m guessing Brienne doesn’t wind up in the North in the books, at least not so soon, so they’re bringing her home, so to speak.

There is no reason. And I’m willing to bet money she will stay in the North.

They are bringing the Vale army north for a reason, the will simply condense all those characters/storylines in the North.

I don’t see a reason, either. But this constant pounding on the, “Brienne will go to the Riverlands,” table bothers me. I’m willing to entertain ANY theory provided it’s based on some sort of sound reasoning. And as of right now, I don’t understand the reasoning behind Brienne being in the Riverlands. The entirety of her RL plot was to find Sansa. In the show-universe, she has already found Sansa. She’s been staring at her location for weeks. Why then–even after she comes back and sees that the candle has been lit–would she all of a sudden say, “Screw this shit and fuck Sansa; let me go back down to the Riverlands”? My question is sincere…someone explain this to me.

And as far as LF is concerned…are we sure he takes The Vale to the North? From what we know right now, The Vale is not taking part in the Battle of The North (episode 9). If he goes with an army to the North, that’s an outright declaration of war against the Boltons and they will respond accordingly. So…do the Boltons take out The Vale before the Battle in episode 9? Does LF show up in episode 10? Or does he not take the Vale to the North (as he previously stated)?

Brienne has no story in the riverlands, not without LSH.
She will stay in the north, I may be wrong, but I see no logical reason from a storytelling point of view, And I don’t agree with this ”retuning home” the North may well be where she ends in TWOW.

And I’m at about 45% sure/hoping/speculating that Jaime will go North.

I have a hard time seeing a plausible way to get her to the Riverlands, but the general reasoning of people who think she’s going there is solid enough, namely, that having sent her off in a diversion the show will put her back in the important part of her book plot eventually, and that this is presumably something to do with Jaime, who apparently is returning to the Riverlands. Though in this case, with no LSH it’s unclear how they would even tell that story.

We have that set report of Littefinger filming at Winterfell. It could be mistaken, but him going North simply makes the most sense; it was apparently the point of his whole scheme last year, and it puts him back with Sansa, to whose story he is presumed to be rather important, now that she’s done being Jeyne Poole.

M: I can’t think of that many compelling in-text reasons–apart from “Sansa sends her away” or “they get unexpectedly separated”–but from a meta perspective, D&D will probably be trying to get her back on track with her book arc, after taking Brienne very far afield, just like Jaime is going to the Riverlands after going very far afield in Season 5. I’m guessing Brienne doesn’t wind up in the North in the books, at least not so soon, so they’re bringing her home, so to speak.

No mention of Pod in the fight scene? :(:(:(

What is Brienne’s purpose for being in the Riverlands? What was so important about her travels through the Riverlands that they would now need to put her back there? I promise, I’m not asking to be snarky with you, its a genuine question. Without LS, and since she has already found Sansa, what is so important about the RL that they would need to take her back there? I simply don’t understand.

As a side, you’re right. Sansa could conceivably send her away again. I mean, at this point, its the only possibility I can theorize as to why Brienne would leave Sansa. But then I think back to last season when Sansa sent her away, and Brienne followed her anyways. Brienne is bound to Sansa (by oath) and that takes presidence–in my mind–over all of these other side distractions.

FYI: Over at WiC there is a spy pic of the Black Tyrell horse and a knight with helmet off, the knight looks like Freddie Stroma, I’ve compared many pics and they have similar mouths, jaws, checks and noses, but the head of the knight is looking downward and cannot make out eyes for comparison. But if that panned out then Dickon would be commanding that troop of Tyrell soldiers.

M: I can’t think of many compelling in-text reasons–apart from “Sansa sends her away,” which is a pretty good one–but from a meta perspective, D&D will probably be trying to get her back on track with her book arc, after taking Brienne very far afield, just like Jaime is going to the Riverlands after going very far afield in Season 5. I’m guessing Brienne doesn’t wind up in the North in the books, at least not so soon, so they’re bringing her home, so to speak.

No mention of Pod in the fight scene? :(:(:(

I can think of one very plausible reason for Brienne to go back… Arya. She actually saw Arya in the Riverlands and as far as she knows threw Arya’s main protector (Hound) over a cliff. She spent a few days looking for her, but then found Sansa and followed her.

I could see a scenario where Brienne saves/helps Sansa/Theon for a while, then Littlefinger and the Vale army show up and take over. They don’t trust Theon, but since he helped her, Sansa lets him leave with his life. He heads toward the Iron Islands. I think it is likely that whatever Sansa story arc will be (rally North, find her brothers, other?), Littlefinger will play a part in it, and we know Littlefinger will not want Brienne around… once they find out that Brienne saw Arya alive (how could they not bring this up?), Sansa will agree to her continuing her quest to find her sister. Brienne might not like leaving Sansa, but she is surrounded by the Vale army and in considerably better position than where she left Arya. This would make a nice tie-in to connect her to (perhaps) Jamie, the Riverland outlaws, Hound?, and eventually Arya (if indeed she is retuning at the end of the season). All poised to aid Arya (and who knows who else 🙂 back to the North and Sansa and company.

Not saying it would happen this way, but plausible and I would love it see play out this way.

“I don’t understand the reasoning behind Brienne being in the Riverlands. The entirety of her RL plot was to find Sansa. In the show-universe, she has already found Sansa. She’s been staring at her location for weeks. Why then–even after she comes back and sees that the candle has been lit–would she all of a sudden say, “Screw this shit and fuck Sansa; let me go back down to the Riverlands”? My question is sincere…someone explain this to me.”

Brienne has now found Sansa AND lost her. She screwed up by choosing one oath over the other (even if it was unconsciously). I’m 90% sure that when the season opens, she’s going to hear of Sansa’s escape (maybe from some Bolton men) and not going to know which way she went. I don’t know the particulars of how and why of how Brienne *might* head south, but if she hears that Jon is dead at the wall, and has to guess where Sansa would go, she might think she went back to the Vale since the last she saw of Sansa she was with Littlefinger. She makes a wrong turn based on a wrong assumption (I think) in the books, so I believe that the show is going to do some equivalent of that. I don’t think she’s going to say “screw Sansa!” – I think there’s going to be some other reason for her *possibly* heading south.

Remember: WE know that Brienne has Valyrian steel and that it works against fighting White Walkers in the North, but Brienne doesn’t know that.

No one knows for sure if Stannis was killed by Brienne. She swung her sword at him after a long, formal speech; but, we didn’t see the sword meet it’s target.

Brienne comes off as a bungler, sometimes. What was the reason for her speech to Stannis, really? I kept thinking someone would come up behind and plunge a sword into her heart before she could finish talking. That may be exactly what happened.

The actor says she filmed a fighting scene. Maybe someone did intercept her strike. That would makes sense as Brienne always has poor timing. She can’t quite seem to get things right or adjust her approach whenever she fails.

Okay, this strikes me as good AND possibly bad. Knowing exactly when his contract ends could also mean he has a death date! It would be just like GRRM and the show to dangle the carrot and then WHAM! Jon (Targaryan) is killed off at some point, for good. I think there would be a physical revolt from the fans at that point – lol…

I’m not so sure. That translation a few comments up mentions season 5 being finished filming but it doesn’t mention that it had aired. I suspect this interview was done a while ago but was held onto until the movie was released there. Kit did publicity for this movie many months ago for other markets. In which case, he was in a double tight spot about what he could say.

How did they guess the ending then in order to make all those innuendos about haircuts and staff? If season 5 had not aired yet, I mean.

This is a thing? Man, I always make an effort to read the comments but maybe my brain skips over pointlessly negative ones. Brienne is a bad-ass motherfucker and I love her. Gwen Christie is amazing and Show Brienne is definitely in my top 5.

Dany already has lots of ships in Meereen according to Daario, so the Iron Fleet isn’t even needed. But if they’re really gonna adapt that part of the Ironborn plot, it seems more likely that the Crow’s Eye will just send Yara to fetch Dany in Vic’s place. Euron will probably stay and raid the Reach like in the books, culminating with the Oldtown raid where he’ll take whatever it is he thinks he needs from the Citadel to assume control of Dany’s dragons.

…although I’m not sure there’s room for the Oldtown raid this season. The Kingsmoot isn’t even happening until Episode 5 or 6 as M mentioned, and big Episode 9 will apparently be Snowbowl. They could skip most of the raids on the Reach and just have the Crow’s Eye go straight for Oldtown I suppose, but the raid will have to be a pretty big deal and take up at least half on an episode like Hardhome did.

I can definitely see why they’re extending the show to eight seasons. There’s so much stuff going on now, it’ll be impossible to cram it all into just seven. Season 6 alone will be busting at the seams with stuff, and a lot of what I thought might be in it could get pushed to S7 instead.

Also, I’m not sure if any of this needs to be spoiler coded or not since the Oldtown raid hasn’t actually happened yet in the books and is still technically just speculation.

I would guess that they would have it that tyrion told pod about Jon snow at the wall.. So pod will mention to Brienne about Sansa’s half brother and they will head toward the wall.. Unless they have sam and gilly close by still and have Brienne run into them and sam mentions Jon snow and pod then realizes it’s Sansa’s half brother

It would make no sense at all for Brienne to return to the Riverlands. Both the Meribald stuff and the definitely-not-BWB stuff will be in Jamie’s storyline.

I do agree with the notion that Brienne leaving her post and missing the candle seemed like a character defining moment, but at this point Sansa has zero chances to survive without her. And besides, making Brienne double back after being so close… is just terrible for the character! Brienne wouldn’t leave Winter fell without Sansa, and definitely not just trail off to the River lands. If she does it’ll have to be WITH Sansa, which makes even less sense given the info we have so far about the Northern storyline. Sansa is a fugitive now, and at the center of a major power struggle between Ramsay and the Stark loyalists. And there HAS to be a reason Theon told her of her brothers, and why that scene was emphasized: because she’s going to meet Rickon this season.

Basically, Sansa isn’t leaving the North any time soon and Brienne isn’t leaving Sansa any time soon. So Brienne stays North.

RosanaZugey: What is Brienne’s purpose for being in the Riverlands? What was so important about her travels through the Riverlands that they would now need to put her back there? I promise, I’m not asking to be snarky with you, its a genuine question. Without LS, and since she has already found Sansa, what is so important about the RL that they would need to take her back there? I simply don’t understand.

I agree that I’m unclear what Brienne would do in the Riverlands sans LS, but in the broader sense the main reason she might conceivably go is if she’s to interact with Jaime, who is going to the Riverlands. Last season had that little moment where Jaime sees Tarth, meant to remind the audience of the connection, so it’s not unreasonable to think the show intends to have them meet again. Like I said, I think that at this point Brienne is committed to the Northern narrative and could not be extracted from it very plausibly at this point, but it’s plausible to speculate that the show will do it.

I just don’t think they’d introduce Euron now for him to not effect the story in a big way. As much as I didn’t like Dorne in season 5, it did lead to the death of the daughter of two central characters. Will Euron’s endgame this season really just be him stealing something from the Citadel? I just don’t see it. By the end of the season, I expect him to be on a collision course with Dany, perhaps just as she sets sail for Westeros.

I have a hard time seeing a plausible way to get her to the Riverlands, but the general reasoning of people who think she’s going there is solid enough, namely, that having sent her off in a diversion the show will put her back in the important part of her book plot eventually, and that this is presumably something to do with Jaime, who apparently is returning to the Riverlands.Though in this case, with no LSH it’s unclear how they would even tell that story.

We have that set report of Littefinger filming at Winterfell.It could be mistaken, but him going North simply makes the most sense; it was apparently the point of his whole scheme last year, and it puts him back with Sansa, to whose story he is presumed to be rather important, now that she’s done being Jeyne Poole.

*Shakes it off* Anywho!!! I think in the rush to try and put Jaime and Brienne together, people forget that Brienne and Jaime (Brienne, probably more so), are bound by oath to Sansa, not each other. Their roads lead TO Sansa, not away from her. So, in my mind, Brienne doesn’t have any other “plot” besides protecting Sansa and keeping her oath to both Cat and Jaime. Hell, Brienne has the sword of House Stark on her right now for that very purpose!

***Jaime to Brienne in “Oathkeeper” (S4E4): “It was reforged from Ned Stark’s sword. You’ll use it to defend Ned Stark’s daughter.”***

IF Brienne ends up in the RL, then I’m going to go out on a limb and say its because Sansa’s there too. And even that theory opens up an entirely new, “Wtf would Sansa be in the RL?” line of questioning. 😉

Now, tell me. What is LF trying to do with Sansa? What are your theories? What is his endgame?

RosanaZugey:
WHY would Brienne go to the Riverlands? Why would this happen? Why would Brienne purposely leave Sansa in the North, by herself, to resume a book plot where she’s looking…for Sansa. Explain this to me.

Yeah, regardless of whether they include LS or not (And that speculation will never die until the series is over!), Brienne’s destiny IN THE BOOKS is meeting up again with Jaime. And since we know Jaime will be in the Riverlands by the end of the season……

You think Stannis died from a strike delivered by Brienne, in that particular scene, because you’re filling in the blanks. However, the simplicity of the scene was suspicious. Stannis was too resigned to his impending death. Yes, his leg was cut badly from a final sword battle with two soldiers; but, I expected him to continue to resist death.

Stannis is a tenacious man who believes in his destiny. He believes in his destiny so much, in fact, that he’s burned his own child alive. The audience demands an appropriate punishment for that, and other abhorrent things Stannis has done. A stiff, curt execution from a known bungler – Brienne – will not suffice.

I do believe the fight scene that the actor who plays Brienne refers to, may be a fight with Stannis, himself. Things never go the way Brienne plans, no matter how much the odds are in her favour. Brienne manages always to defy favourable odds.

Brienne may prevail, in a possible fight with Stannis. She may be attacked by someone else and fail to deliver her death blow to Stannis. Someone else may eventually kill Stannis; however, it’s definitely not certain that Brienne successfully delivered the suggested death blow in her final scene of Season 5.

Cheers.

PS You say Brienne wanted him to know why he was dying? I think Brienne wanted to assure herself that she did see what she thought she saw – the shadow with Stannis’ face. She wanted to assure the dying man that she had “authority” to kill him..which is absurd and redundant. Brienne is vain and redundant.

I previously speculated that Dany might arrive in Westeros in time to repel the Ironborn invasion and win the trust of the Tyrells and other noble houses of the Reach, but it’s difficult to say at this point.

Season 6 is doing a good job of being highly unpredictable, thanks to the numerous deviations from the source material and also getting into Winds territory now.

viki: I can think of one very plausible reason for Brienne to go back… Arya. She actually saw Arya in the Riverlands and as far as she knows threw Arya’s main protector (Hound) over a cliff.She spent a few days looking for her, but then found Sansa and followed her.

I could see a scenario where Brienne saves/helpsSansa/Theon for a while, then Littlefinger and the Vale army show up and take over.They don’t trust Theon, but since he helped her, Sansa lets him leave with his life. He heads toward the Iron Islands.I think it is likely that whatever Sansa story arc will be (rally North, find her brothers, other?), Littlefinger will play a part in it, and we know Littlefinger will not want Brienne around… once they find out that Brienne saw Arya alive (how could they not bring this up?), Sansa will agree to her continuing her quest to find her sister.Brienne might not like leaving Sansa, but she is surrounded by the Vale army and in considerably better position than where she left Arya.This would make a nice tie-in to connect her to (perhaps) Jamie, the Riverland outlaws, Hound?, and eventually Arya (if indeed she is retuning at the end of the season). All poised to aid Arya (and who knows who else back to the North and Sansa and company.

Not saying it would happen this way, but plausible and I would love it see play out this way.

You know, you’re the FIRST person who has come up with a theory on why Sansa and Theon leave each other. I keep asking and asking for ideas on why they split up and no one answers me. 🙁 So, yeah. Thanks for throwing that out there. 🙂

Side note, Brienne met Arya in The Vale, but…it’s entirely plausible that Brienne leaves Sansa to go in search of Arya and she just happens to pass through the Riverlands. I can see that. Although, I would hope that at this point in the story, Sansa would know better than to send away any potential “protector” she could have. Terrible things happened to her that last time she sent Brienne away. Let’s hope–for her sake–that she doesn’t keep repeating the same mistakes.

Q Cool, so are you fan of the books or the show beforehand?
Pilou: Yeah, huge, huge fan! And I already know the character (laughs).
Q: And are you particularly fond of this character?
Pilou: It is a very neat character and there are hopefully some possibilities (to do something great) with this character.

Avon Restal:
I buy “the” Humo each tuesday, they pay attention to Game Of Thrones once in a while (usually when new episodes are shown on Flemish-Belgian television) and are usually positive about the show.

Really looking forward to the interview with Kit!

The interview is from last week, tomorrow is already the new Humo. If you can’t get the old one, I can send you the original text in Dutch. Most is about Testament of Youth.

I thought Stannis was one of the most interesting characters left in it and would have liked him to stick around a bit longer. His death was a little contrived and Brienne had another awful season. Plus the way that Stannis’s end was shot was bizarre. I’m honestly tired of show Brienne she seems like an after thought and is tagged onto other people’s stories. That wouldn’t be a problem if she was endearing or at least entertaining but she really isn’t. Her and Pod have no chemistry and the Renly revenge stuff was very childish. Here’s hoping she improves or dies this season.

For me the massive amping up of her fighting ability from the books is annoying but more so when compounded by the sterilisation of her character. The book version was more naive and a scrapper. She messed up but it made her endearing and likeable as did her wrestling with the concept of honour. Show Brienne is a robotic wonder woman. For me, her only interesting times were when she was paired up with Jaime. They’ve managed to to transfer the dullness of her plotline from the books but left out the grittiness of her refusal to give up on a hopeless cause. Plus, let’s face it “killing” fan favourites (especially ones which she wouldn’t stand a chance against/have any contact with from a book perspective) is a surefire way of irking people. I do worry for her character if she remains in the north as, again, she’ll just be a tag along. The Riverlands would be a better place for her if they pick up the LS storyline albeit with different characters.

On the ongoing Stannis death thing. I think he is dead and it was shot that way so as to leave some mystery about it for when he dies in tWoW which I think will be out before next season of the show. Wouldn’t be completely shocked if he was still alive and the slight ambiguousness of the scene means I can’t 100% rule it out. Perhaps Brienne doing her duty is to use Stannis as a means to get Sansa back. We shall see!

Do you think a death-blow from Brienne, in that context of her final scene, is appropriate justice for what Stannis has done?

Of course, Stannis isn’t all bad. He has given Jon Snow some very good advice – which Jon did not take. He helped rescue Wildlings – which might have been self-serving, but, rescue them, he did. Every man and woman plays a role in the ultimate conclusion though they each might not be perfect.

Nope. She has yet to meet Arya again or walk the walls of Winterfell as the Bolton banners are lowered. Plus, there is no way Davos could kill her. If she dies, it will be her sacrificing herself or by a complete surprise that she didn’t foresee. Davos has to be on the top of the list of who she looks for in the flames when searching for those who would look to do her harm.

Dame Pasty:
I just don’t understand the show-Brienne hate.Some people act as if they take the fact that a woman can kick ass as a personal affront.They say it’s because she’s so different from the books but she isn’t.They have her meet and confront different characters in the books but she isn’t different as far as who and what she is IMHO.The animosity seems to be rooted in something other than just book differences.Makes me want her to kill off more popular characters even more (and yeah, I can be a spiteful bitch like that).

Why do I dislike show-Brienne?

1: BrienneGPS. It’s one of the lamest elements of the show and what I consider to be hack writing. It is also something that GRRM generally avoids.

2: Her Pod hate. It was irrational and annoying. At least it is over.

3: Any fight she wins (or wins fairly when she arguably cheated in the books) means the loser of said fight gets diminished as a character. Loras in particular comes off as a wimp on TV, and Brienne is one part of this.

4: The minor fact that her choice in S5E10 turned her into a murderer, an oathbreaker, and a kingslaying hypocrite of the highest order.

A lot of the hate comes from them making her somewhat unstoppable. She has defeated the hound and killed stannis. She beat Jaime however it was after he was a weak after being a prisoner of Robb stark

Yeah, see that still doesn’t make sense to me. She’s disliked because she’s strong in combat? Or is it just because she bested a fave like the Hound? Look, that fight was balls-to-the-wall insane nasty stuff, and I thought they were lucky they didn’t both go over the cliff. I don’t think anyone “won” that day. And Stannis, let’s be clear, brought about his own downfall. But even if she just was the best with the sword…so what? Each to their own opinion I guess, but no one hates Bronn because he’s such a good swordsman. Eh, forget it, maybe I don’t really want to understand.

Edit – and I can see others have chimed in with their reasons. Will just say I disagree that her beating a character “diminishes” them – what the actual fuck. That statement makes me so angry I’m going to step away from the interwebs for a bit.

kit_hepburn:
“I don’t understand the reasoning behind Brienne being in the Riverlands. The entirety of her RL plot was to find Sansa. In the show-universe, she has already found Sansa. She’s been staring at her location for weeks. Why then–even after she comes back and sees that the candle has been lit–would she all of a sudden say, “Screw this shit and fuck Sansa; let me go back down to the Riverlands”? My question is sincere…someone explain this to me.”

Brienne has now found Sansa AND lost her. She screwed up by choosing one oath over the other (even if it was unconsciously). I’m 90% sure that when the season opens, she’s going to hear of Sansa’s escape (maybe from some Bolton men) and not going to know which way she went. I don’t know the particulars of how and why of how Brienne *might* head south, but if she hears that Jon is dead at the wall, and has to guess where Sansa would go, she might think she went back to the Vale since the last she saw of Sansa she was with Littlefinger. She makes a wrong turn based on a wrong assumption (I think) in the books, so I believe that the show is going to do some equivalent of that. I don’t think she’s going to say “screw Sansa!” – I think there’s going to be some other reason for her *possibly* heading south.

Remember: WE know that Brienne has Valyrian steel and that it works against fighting White Walkers in the North, but Brienne doesn’t know that.

You know, I used to think that Jon would be resurrected at the end of the season (ep 9 or 10). But with the spoiler of SnowBowl, I think he’ll be brought back relatively early on. That should give him enough time to heal (if he has too), and possibility meet up with Sansa/Rickon, and rally (or coordinate with) the Wildlings and the Northern Lords.

If he is brought back, relatively early, Brienne won’t hear about him dying (thus she won’t be prompted to go south to look for Sansa). Personally, I don’t believe she’ll go to the RL, but if she does, it will only be after she gets Sansa safely to the Last Hearth, and it will HAVE to be because Sansa sends her (maybe to look for Arya…although, why Sansa would send her to the RL instead of The Vale (where Brienne actually saw her last) is questionable).

Yes he was! Just as Joffrey was a fan favourite. Fans love having someone to hate as much as they do having someone they love. Above all else they like characters that entertain them and Stannis certainly did that!

In my dreams? He’s the underdog that sticks around, and sticks around, then wins in the end when all the other contenders annihilate one another, self-destruct or self-sacrifice. Wouldn’t it be funny if the actual rightful king won?

But alas, D&D chose to make the fan base hate him, then had him murdered. One would presume that this implies a Stannis death somewhere in the first half of TWOW. GRRM seems to have him set up to win a round, but he will lose the bout.

Edit – and I can see others have chimed in with their reasons. Will just say I disagree that her beating a character “diminishes” them – what the actual fuck. That statement makes me so angry I’m going to step away from the interwebs for a bit.

Why yes, losing diminishes you. Why does that statement make you angry?

Loras in particular has gotten the shaft on the show. Book Loras is one of the greatest fighters in Westeros. TV Loras lost to Brienne (fairly), won a joust against the Mountain but then got his butt kicked and had to be rescued, and then got captured by a handful of religious thugs despite being armed and surrounded by friends. Are you seriously saying a transformation from “Arguably the Best Knight on the Continent” to “Token Gay Character” is not a diminishment?

Chad Brick: In my dreams? He’s the underdog that sticks around, and sticks around, then wins in the end when all the other contenders annihilate one another, self-destruct or self-sacrifice. Wouldn’t it be funny if the actual rightful king won?

I don’t think that he was rightful king at all. Baratheons were usurpers.

Sean C.: I agree that I’m unclear what Brienne would do in the Riverlands sans LS, but in the broader sense the main reason she might conceivably go is if she’s to interact with Jaime, who is going to the Riverlands.Last season had that little moment where Jaime sees Tarth, meant to remind the audience of the connection, so it’s not unreasonable to think the show intends to have them meet again.Like I said, I think that at this point Brienne is committed to the Northern narrative and could not be extracted from it very plausibly at this point, but it’s plausible to speculate that the show will do it.

Well, hot dog!!!! FINALLY!! Now, THIS is some good news. Sheesh. It’s about time Sophie’s punk ass goes to work! 😉 :p

Also, I’m in complete agreement that Brienne is committed to the Northern narrative. I think she stays with Sansa. Even though people have presented plausible ways she could leave her (thank you all, btw, for answering my question), I’m fully subscribed to the idea that she won’t. That Jaime goes to the Riverlands doesn’t automatically mean that Brienne will go as well. And while I do think their stories will eventually coalesce (hell, at some point ALL of these stories will coalesce), it doesn’t have to happen in this context and in this season.

I fear Dame Pasty opened the floodgates with her Brienne opinion. Personally, I think the hate is a bit over the top, but then again, I don’t really enjoy Brienne in the books or show unless she is with Jaime. Book Brienne is younger and more naive. She’s far less confident than show Brienne. And yes, she is becoming the terminator, defeating the Hound in single combat and then killing Stannis. I didn’t have a big problem with her defeating an injured Hound with a Valyrian Steel sword, but the Stannis execution was a bit too contrived for my tastes. I need her to reunite with Jaime by the end of the season.

1: BrienneGPS. It’s one of the lamest elements of the show and what I consider to be hack writing. It is also something that GRRM generally avoids.

Ah, you prefer the book version, where she spends an entire book not running into anyone, and after that where she doesn’t meet anyone, and after that where I’ve fallen asleep so I don’t know.

2: Her Pod hate. It was irrational and annoying. At least it is over.

Uhm … Brienne is quite irrationally and annoyingly not fond of Pod in the books either.

3: Any fight she wins (or wins fairly when she arguably cheated in the books) means the loser of said fight gets diminished as a character. Loras in particular comes off as a wimp on TV, and Brienne is one part of this.

Wait, what? This just doesn’t make any sense. Like at all. You’re saying that any character that loses a fight is diminished as a character? Or just the ones that lose to Brienne? Or is this just some excuse to blame Brienne for the way the show deals with Loras as a character?

4: The minor fact that her choice in S5E10 turned her into a murderer, an oathbreaker, and a kingslaying hypocrite of the highest order.

1. she killed a LOT more people in the books. 2. an oathbreaker? just for not staring at an empty window for 10 seconds? she is perfectly able to keep her oath to Sansa next season. Also, she’s an Oathkeeper for killing Stannis. 3. so I assume you would call Olenna Tyrell, Roose Bolton, Cersei Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Petyr Baelish, Melisandre and Stannis Baratheon ‘kingslaying hypocrites of the highest order’ as well? Because this is the game of thrones. And Stannis was the guy who killed the man Brienne loved.

Although that Kit interview was posted September 8 there is no guarantee this is a recent interview. The movie he was promoting came out in most locations while season 5 was still airing and that’s when Kit went on his interview cycle for promotion of that film. The film is just released this week in the location where that interview is published, making it likely he did that interview months ago. And since it was while season 5 was still airing, episode 10 and the Jon Snow stabbing had yet to take place. So he really had no reason to answer any other way than he did. So it is not a slip up in my opinion, because it’s doubtful this is a recent interview. This is likely an interview done in May and early June when he was on the press tour to promote the film and they saved the interview for when the film was released in their country. Which is this week.

I don’t think there is really a legit rightful king. As it has been mentioned in the show the only real indicator of who has the right is he/she whom has the power to take it ( a core element of the whole book’s/show’s dynamic). I feel this is why Dany seems to be losing some popularity with the viewership/readership as she waffles on about Usurpers and yet makes no attempt to take it back and keeps faffing about in Essos!

RosanaZugey:
Anywho!!! I think in the rush to try and put Jaime and Brienne together, people forget that Brienne and Jaime (Brienne, probably more so), are bound by oath to Sansa, not each other. Their roads lead TO Sansa, not away from her. So, in my mind, Brienne doesn’t have any other “plot” besides protecting Sansa and keeping her oath to both Cat and Jaime. Hell, Brienne has the sword of House Stark on her right now for that very purpose!

I’d say at present that’s only speculative. It’s true that protecting Sansa and Arya is Brienne’s motivation and notional goal, but it’s far from clear that it’s her actual story in the books; her plot is what she actually ends up doing. Sansa and Arya remain entirely theoretical in her story; her relationship with Jaime has been the central one in her story, just as she’s been a transformative figure in his.

If most fans are honest they miss the spoilt little bastard! People often tune in more to see characters they hate than the ones they like! So they are favourites in that regard although the don’t like any of their qualities they are some of the main reasons they watch the show.

Yeah. I always groan when I see people calling him “Stannis the Mannis”. The problem with obsessing over one character is that when they do something that the super fans don’t like the writers get blamed, which is fine, but a lot of stuff is really quite personal and vitriolic. Sure it’s fine to disagree, but at least show some respect for the writers. The reason they can’t is because they’re obsessed with the character and are blinded by their previous interpretations of the characters. There’s definitely an element of projection with it all.

It’s going to be amusing when TWOW comes out to see what the folks at westeros.org and reddit have to say. They’re still find a way to blame D&D I’m sure.

I think stannis is dead.. I think they showed it like they did was because they know about pink letter in the book and wanted to give George a chance to reveal it himself what happened with stannis and knew people would be unsure after how they cut away. Also, I think stannis’ story even in the book is pretty much coming to end. As for the hound, we know in the books that gravedigger is thought to be him by many people so by that happening in book and them not showing him die in the show it left the door open for him to open

You’re right, being angry at an internet comment is pointless, and I’m already over it. I went up to the cafe to get myself a coffee and a danish. All better! I still disagree with you though: losing isn’t diminishing, unless you don’t respect the opponent. Losing at Blackwater didn’t diminish Stannis overall; he felt it but overcame the burn and came back with new strength. I don’t think Ser Jorah’s character was harmed by him losing to one of the fighters in the pits of Mereen. And I certainly don’t think Oberyn dying at the hands of the Mountain has done anything to decrease the character’s popularity.

What’s the difference? It’s that you don’t seem respect Brienne as an opponent, for…reasons.

Honestly, I’m already done caring. Tyrion Pimpslap and TheTouchOfFrost have made some points about her character that they find boring/irritating – that I get. But this “she shouldn’t have been able to beat Jaime/the Hound/Loras” is pretty weak. Whatever though, you do you, buddy.

Well, that’s your definition but it’s quite possible to enjoy characters without liking them. Antagonists are the key to a great story so it’s logical that some of them are very popular amongst the viewers even if they’re not rooting for them.

I’m always bothered by the Stannis love because while he moves the plot, he’s not the story. Davos and Melisandre are the POV characters with Team Dragonstone. We see Stannis through their eyes. The story is about Davos and Melisandre.

Just as Brienne has her own story, with her own POV chapters. People might not like Brienne, and her gruff exterior is hard to take at times, but she has a softness and vulnerability that Christie displayed beautifully when she told the story of Renly. Brienne only returned to gruff and defensive when Pod mentioned that Renly was gay and Brienne felt mocked. Of course, then she agrees to train Pod because you know, she hates his guts and all.

I’m raising my hand as bothered that a character is diminished when Brienne beats them. Jaime was weak as hell after a year in captivity; the fight with Sandor was a squeaker; Stannis was already injured. The only healthy person she beat cleanly was Loras. Yeah…but I can see some people don’t respect her as an opponent. For reasons.

I think you have a point about Brienne’s gruffness. The character, Brienne, has insecurities, despite her strength and ability. Maybe stiffness, formality and gruffness is Brienne’s “armour”, as Sansa would say.

I think a problem with her character on the show is that she is just wandering in a giant open world and for show purposes is randomly running into the people that she is looking for. For a story that is so strong and has reasons behind things, it’s just doesn’t fit for me.

1: BrienneGPS. It’s one of the lamest elements of the show and what I consider to be hack writing. It is also something that GRRM generally avoids.

Ah, you prefer the book version, where she spends an entire book not running into anyone, and after that where she doesn’t meet anyone, and after that where I’ve fallen asleep so I don’t know.

2: Her Pod hate. It was irrational and annoying. At least it is over.

Uhm … Brienne is quite irrationally and annoyingly not fond of Pod in the books either.

3: Any fight she wins (or wins fairly when she arguably cheated in the books) means the loser of said fight gets diminished as a character. Loras in particular comes off as a wimp on TV, and Brienne is one part of this.

Wait, what? This just doesn’t make any sense. Like at all. You’re saying that any character that loses a fight is diminished as a character? Or just the ones that lose to Brienne? Or is this just some excuse to blame Brienne for the way the show deals with Loras as a character?

4: The minor fact that her choice in S5E10 turned her into a murderer, an oathbreaker, and a kingslaying hypocrite of the highest order.

1. she killed a LOT more people in the books. 2. an oathbreaker? just for not staring at an empty window for 10 seconds? she is perfectly able to keep her oath to Sansa next season. Also, she’s an Oathkeeper for killing Stannis. 3. so I assume you would call Olenna Tyrell, Roose Bolton, Cersei Lannister, Jaime Lannister, Petyr Baelish, Melisandre and Stannis Baratheon ‘kingslaying hypocrites of the highest order’ as well? Because this is the game of thrones. And Stannis was the guy who killed the man Brienne loved.

Just sayin’.

I wasn’t particular enamored of Brienne’s chapters in the books, either. But I don’t hate her and don’t recall her Pod-hate being annoying like it was on TV. And yes, anyone who loses a fight, to anyone, whether off-book or on-book, is diminished. The winner is elevated. Brienne’s wins come at other characters’ expenses, particularly Loras, who has been thoroughly trashed as a character.

As for the final point: you are conflating killing and murder. Both Brienne’s have done a lot of killing, but her murder of Stannis was just that – a murder. She killed a man that was not attempting to harm her or any innocent, and did so for reasons of personal vengeance.

The only true kingslayers in Westeros are Jaime (who did so with just cause), Cersei (who is a murderer but not a hypocrite about it), Lancel (who is a murdered but not a hypocrite AND seeks forgiveness) and Brienne (who is a murderer AND a hypocrite). The rest of the kills you refer to are of ursurpers. The fact is that Brienne knowingly killed the legitimate king to get revenge for a traitor, after spending all of Season Two sneering “Kingslayer” at Jaime. That’s murder, and that’s hypocrisy.

I think stannis is dead.. I think they showed it like they did was because they know about pink letter in the book and wanted to give George a chance to reveal it himself what happened with stannis and knew people would be unsure after how they cut away.

D&D won’t do something like that for GRRM. They wrote S5 in 2014. Even now GRRM doesn’t know when TWOW will be finished, back then he knew even less.

They gave their explanation why they wrote it in the way they did. You can agree or disagree, but there is no need for mystification.

I do not exclude a second meeting with Sansa but as some have already suggested this could result to another mission for Brienne which will take her to the RL. In any case if Brienne provides for Sansa’s safe arrival to the Wall or to one of the Northern Lords castle then there is no reason for Brienne to stay with her anymore. It actually fits with the schedule of the eps. Sansa and Brienne for a few eps and then off to RLs. I am one of those who haven’t given up the hope for LSH. Having Brienne in the North is a pointless device. To do what? A tail to Sansa? Although I can see her fighting the WW in the endgame I cannot visualise her interaction with Jon, Mel and Davos or the Northern Lords for S6. And I don’t believe that Jamie will take over the RL plotline all by himself.

They don’t need to kno when the book comes out tho they already know what happens to stannis.. I was just saying they could give him a chance and u don’t really know what they would or wouldn’t do for grrm neither do I I was saying what I thought

Chad Brick: The fact is that Brienne knowingly killed the legitimate king to get revenge for a traitor, after spending all of Season Two sneering “Kingslayer” at Jaime. That’s murder, and that’s hypocrisy.

Stannis isn’t the legitimate king. He thinks he is. He’s got a massive case of Middle Child Syndrome, though, always getting pissed at his brothers for getting what he wanted (the throne and Storm’s End). The rightful king of Westeros is whoever can take and hold the Iron Throne. Stannis could not do that, did not do that, lost the Battle of the Blackwater badly and ran away with his tail between his legs.

As far as Brienne was concerned, Renly was her king. Stannis killed him. Making Stannis both a kingslayer and a kinslayer.

Couldn’t agree more. A single character (particularly in ASOIAF) is just a small part of a wider story.

It’s like a recipe for a chocolate cake. An individual might really, really like chocolate, whereas another might really, really like eggs. Now, that’s all well and good, but a fried egg tastes very different to a chocolate cake. You need all the ingredients to make the cake with them all being equally important. If you take one away the result is very different, but at the same time each has a different purpose. It isn’t a chocolate cake without chocolate (or cocoa), without sugar it isn’t sweet.

Stannis was important to the story, but I’d rather have the whole story than just him, the same way I’d rather have a whole chocolate cake than just an egg.

I can understand that frustration, but it is television and chance meetings are standard TV fare, and well, Catelyn randomly running into Tyrion didn’t make her an annoying character, although plenty of other things did.

In the books, Brienne wanders the Riverlands failing in her quests. In the show, to make it more dramatic, her failures are more obvious, more poignant. She lets both Stark girls slip through her fingers. I expect Brienne in S6 is set up for a ton of physical and emotional devastation so that she is a broken woman by the time she meets up with Jaime. And that’s where her story lies, in her connection and relationship with Jaime. Sansa is just a MacGuffin for Brienne.

Kay:
Very intrigued as to who Brienne will fight. It’s up close, thuggish fighting, so it sounds almost like the one with The Hound in S4. This time the outlaw band in the Riverlands?
Nathalie mentions Three’s Company; what happens to Varys? Does he leave Meereen soon after the season premiere?

Good question. I wonder if he will fulfill his book counterpart’s role back in KL.

And Brienne too. Stannis was not “entertaining” until S5. He was a dry, obstinate in a limited way and obsessed man all the way to WF something he paid dearly when he lost all and everything. I really enjoyed his last season but only because he showed some other aspects of his character. And I can not see any purpose of his character to go beyond that last scene of his in S5’s finale…

It diminshes their fighting ability which I think was annoying with Jaime as the show never really showed just how good he was which lessened the impact of his hand loss a little. Wish they’d had the budget to show the Battle at the Whispering Woods. Would have loved to see him cutting through Rob’s personal guard like a hot knife through butter! This would have made Brienne besting him a bigger thing ( even though he was emaciated, shackled, hadn’t practiced in a year and was unarmoured!). Puzzled they didn’t go the book route and make the fight as close as it was there. I think them both being exhausted and unarmed locked in combat made them much more vulnerable and easier to be picked up by Vargo/Locke. The show version was a bit odd.

Don’t think they’d do it again. Look what happened when the Great Bastards were legitimised. Blackfyre rebellions left, right and centre! The Dance of Dragons was the most damaging event that happened to the Targ dynasty.

But your initial point was that if R & L married then he’d be legit. There’s many other theoretical ifs and buts that could have happened that could have changed events too. At the moment, he’s still just a bastard and it’s in absolutely no ones interest to legitimise him as a Targaryen. As a Stark? Maybe Rob’s will could do that but no one with the power to do so has any use for him on the Iron Throne.

Mau: I agree. I like or dislike a character because of the things they represent. I dislike Cersei as I disliked Joffrey and Stannis but I like the fact that they are/were part of GOT ( I even consider to vote for Dillane as Leading Actor). I do not hate them per se. When it comes to Brienne’s character I sense a hyperbolic hate hate attitude which strikes me as very strange.

Wait, what? This just doesn’t make any sense. Like at all. You’re saying that any character that loses a fight is diminished as a character? Or just the ones that lose to Brienne? Or is this just some excuse to blame Brienne for the way the show deals with Loras as a character?

Exactly! There were complaints about show-Loras long before Brienne was ever on the scene. Never understood those either – it’s like some book readers/show viewers have a really narrow view of what a strong warrior is in terms of looks, behaviour, gender and sexuality. You can’t possibly be anything other than a straight-presenting masculine manly man if you’re meant to be one of the best fighters in the land!

Meribald and the outlaws are in the same scenes, and Walden Frey is just setup for Arya killing him in season 7 (we know she reaches the Riverlands this season). All Jaime needs to do in the Riverlands is run into outlaws. And honestly, we’re assuming quite a bit here. We’re assuming the outlaws are in the Riverlands and not anywhere else in Westerns/Essos, we’re assuming Meribald exists and wasn’t just an odd way to describe the show version of Aeron, and we’re assuming the Riverlands are more than just a stop in a greater journey for Jaime, who may actually be headed North rather than to the Riverlands themselves. The only thing we know for sure is that Nikola filmed a very small amount of scenes in Iceland, and presumably Arya too (though Sue wasn’t very clear on that ). Gwen wasn’t spotted there at all, and it seems just as unlikely the show will double back to Iceland to film for her as it does her character going to the Riverlands in season 6.

Does the story really need another big fight scene involving Brienne, especially one which has her emerge from it victorious yet again? It seems she’s become the biggest Mary Sue of GOT and a plot device to do away with actual interesting characters.

HotPinkLipstick:Shane snow,
In the books, Brienne wanders the Riverlands failing in her quests. In the show, to make it more dramatic, her failures are more obvious, more poignant. She lets both Stark girls slip through her fingers. I expect Brienne in S6 is set up for a ton of physical and emotional devastation so that she is a broken woman by the time she meets up with Jaime. And that’s where her story lies, in her connection and relationship with Jaime. Sansa is just a MacGuffin for Brienne.

Just wanted to requote and highlight this, because I think you are dead on. To a lesser extent, I believe Sansa is also a MacGuffin for Jaime (who asked Brienne to find her in the first place). Brienne is not going to get to find Sansa and save her and become a “true knight” because there are no true knights in this story.

The only interesting character she did away with was Stannis and that was according to the books as Stannis has no future in the books and actually she did so in a very beautiful way. Which other character did she away with?

TheTouchOfFrost:
Don’t think they’d do it again. Look what happened when the Great Bastards were legitimised. Blackfyre rebellions left, right and centre! The Dance of Dragons was the most damaging event that happened to the Targ dynasty.

Yeah, because Rhaegar was totally worried about politics when he ran off with Lyanna.

kit_hepburn:
Brienne is not going to get to find Sansa and save her and become a “true knight” because there are no true knights in this story.

Not to necessarily disagree about whether Brienne will actually find Sansa, but GRRM’s story has a pretty obvious pattern: the truest knights are not knights (Duncan the Tall, Brienne, the Hound).

Yeah I agree, I think Brienne’s fight scene is with Bolton’s men. Gwen and Daniel did return to Belfast for a few days during the filming of the Snowbowl but the trip was short they were only in Belfast for a couple of days. I don’t think they were part of the Snowbowl filming.

Well true, she only killed Stannis (if The Hound lives). But the way the plot gave her the opportunity to do so was abysmal. She just so happens to be nearby when the battle starts, just so happens to hear about Stannis at the right time, just so happens to be able to go through the battlefield and actually find Stannis, just so happens Stannis stays alive long enough for her to find and kill him, just so happens Stannis is injured and can’t fight back. urgh

Also every fight scene has seen her win. She’s beaten every guy who’s faced her. Even such reputable and top-notch swordsmen like still two-handed Jaime and Loras, the current best ones. Sandor’s not bad himself. It’s unnerving and unrealistic. She’s nothing more than a D&D’s gift to the feminists.

I see what you are saying about the true knight thing. I think I just meant that Brienne’s learning how it isn’t really *easy* to be an honourable knight as all that. Because she’s noble and idealistic and true to her word as all hell… and then she gets into a situation like the Lady Stoneheart one, and what the hell do you do? There are no honourable options to take. Or in the show, the girls she swore oaths up and down to protect don’t WANT her help. It’s just not easy and you’re going to mess up somewhere. That’s all I meant.

Pigeon:
Why do these posts always end up being a pissing contest about how ‘everyone is entitled to their opinion, as long as it’s mine’.

Because we’re in between seasons and bored? Yeah I know what you mean though. I do tend to get my back up if I sense prejudice of any kind (sexism/racism/homophobia, whatever) and I don’t apologise for that, but I’ll stop contributing to this particular debate. I have to get to the airport in an hour and I’ve just realised I have no idea where my passport is…

mau: Viserys had more claim, yes, but If Jon is legitimate son of a dead prince, he is the rightfull king of the Seven kingdoms.

Also, we know that people can get divorced in Westeros. On both show and in the books, Renley initially plots to have Robert divorce (“set aside”) Cersei and marry Margaery. Rhaegar was obsessed with the Prophecy, and we know that he thought that he needed a third after Aegon was born AND we know that they knew that Elia could not bear any more children.

Given these issues, he might have set aside Elia for Lyanna. It would certainly make it easier to understand why Lyanna ran off with him (although from what little we know about her, it is not inconceivable that she would have been Rhaegar’s mistress.)

– Jaime & Bronn will head to the RL for unknown reasons at some point after episode 6×06. They probably won’t arive there before 6×08/6×09 since there must be at least one “aftermath”-episode where Jaime in confronted by Cercei for releasing Margaery and sent away on his new mission
– Arya will head to the RL for unknown reasons at some point after episode 6×08
– David Bradley was seen in Belfast so Walder Frey will probably return in season6
– They cast a character who is presumably a new Frey son and appears in 3 episodes
– They cast a character who is presumably a Septon Meribald / Elder Brother equivalent. There are also rumors of the Hound returning as a Faith novice.
– They cast a band of outlaws who are presumably the Brotherhood without Banners and appear in 2? episodes? Ian McShane’s character is somehow involved with them.

Considering that no main character will be in the Riverlands before 6×08 as far as we know, there can’t be a big storyline. The limited screen time basically rules out major developments or character interactions like Jaime lifting the Siege of Riverrun and meeting the Blackfish/Edmure/Genna/etc. or someone bringing down the Freys. Of course, they could rush through it: Maybe Arya joins the theatre group in Braavos, they get booked to perform at a Frey family feast, travel to Westeros and Arya kills Walder in 6×10 without any build-up (RW Vol. 2.0 ? :D) or Jaime simply gets captured by the BwB (now lead by McShane’s character? Blackfish recast maybe?) and the season ends with a similar cliffhanger as ADWD. But this would feel pointless and rushed. I don’t see how all these Riverland characters fit in a single storyline which only lasts 3 episodes. It is possible that the Freys are somehow involved in the Northern storyline through their alliance with House Bolton though.
Assuming that the Hound is still alive and with the Meribald/EB character there is also the question what he has to do this season. Re-introducing him through Jaime would not make much sense since the two of them never really had a scene together. Re-introducing him through a person from his “former life” like Brienne, Sansa or – of course – Arya would have a much greater impact. And if he isn’t re-introduced until ep. 6×08-6×10 “Clegane-Bowl” (if it happens) is no longer an option for this season, which means Cercei’s trial by combat would be delayed to season 7. The KL-story would move at a snail pace.

There could be other main characters in the Riverlands before 6×08 of course, but the only possibilities are:
– Sam and Gilly on their way to Horn Hill if they travel by cart. They could be attacked by the outlaws or come across some Freys or Meribald & the Re-Hound, but since they are not involved in the Riverland-arc this would be a filler-scene with the only purpose to introduce the new characters.
– LF and the Vale army on their way north.
– Brienne and Podrick (and Sansa?) though I have no idea what could lead them there

kit_hepburn: what the hell do you do? There are no honourable options to take.

All of GRRM’s stories revolve around this: people tell themselves “I am X” and “I am Y” and are confronted with situations where to be X is to not be Y. In general, GRRM’s protagonists tend to be people who have genuinely want to be both X and Y for “good” reasons, but who also think about their morals in ethical terms. (Even Jaime and Theon come around to this this over the long-haul.)

Sean C.: The king’s permission would absolutely have been required, among other things.

According to who? I don’t think that Rhaegar needed his father’s consent to marry: if so, then he certainly would not have needed his father’s consent to divorce. (Given that the books hint that father and son did not get along well, Rhaegar probably would not have bothered pursuing this angle regardless.)

And saying that nobody knew about it is a negative evidence argument. We know of nobody alive who knows who Jon’s mother is, even if we have suspicions. If Lyanna is Jon’s mother, then whatever sources can inform us (and the characters) of this can also tell us the how/why of R+L.

Testament of Youth was released in Belgium this week. Actors generally do the press rounds for the country the filming’s coming out in around the time of the release, not many months in advance. It’s extremely unlikely that is an old interview.

So I just read the entire Gwen article and I realized that her role is the hardest to do. She has to learn how to fight in an armor carrying a heavy sword on top of acting and learning her lines. I know people would say Gwen signed up for this, that she should be up for the challenge but gods I think she deserves a pay raise for all she does.

Hence him being an irresponsible dick! R & L remind me (I sense intentionally!) of Helen and Paris from the Trojan War. Very annoying characters who put their own desires before the pain and suffering of thousands. At least Rheagar fought for his passion. Paris was the biggest bitch going. Let his family and city die for his desires, cowardly shot a real warrior in the heel and then ran off to safety. Can’t stand that guy! 😛

I think her exposure to Jaime has started to make her realise that sometimes the honourable thing to do isn’t the right thing to do. ‘The Man Without Honour’ was the only Kingsguard who didn’t blindly follow orders because he knew what he was being asked to do was wrong.

Well, the same is true for many other characters in the show. Most male actors learn to do this stuff at some point in their careers: a big percentage of them wind up in something medieval or medieval looking at one point or another. And although stuntmen are used frequently, most actors have to learn the basics well enough to do some close-up scenes.

What is different is that Thrones has actresses learning this stuff: Christie, Williams, the Sand Snake actresses and possibly others I have forgotten. Christie in particular has gotten a lot better: in her first season, her footing was very heavy and awkward. However, in her fight with the Hound, she showed some good moves.

TheTouchOfFrost: ‘The Man Without Honour’ was the only Kingsguard who didn’t blindly follow orders because he knew what he was being asked to do was wrong.

It was more complex than that. What it came down to was a conflict between honorable deeds: a King he honor-bound to protect vs. a citizenry of people he was honor-bound to protect, and a family he was honor-bound to protect. Any action that he might have taken was going to be dishonorable in the eyes of many people.

But, again, that is what these stories are: conflicts between one person you want to be and another person you want to be.

And even without that canon, there’s no comparison between a son asking dad’s permission to marry and the obtaining of a legal divorce. We already know that the High Septon or a council are required for annulment of a marriage, for instance, and in the medieval societies that GRRM is basing this off you couldn’t just divorce your wife. Divorces in a hierarchical religion and autocratic state pretty much have always needed to be obtained from senior temporal and/or spiritual authority, particularly when the parties involved are nobles.

I like how you laid out why the Riverlands casting and speculation is perplexing based on who seems like they are going to be where. Which is why I keep saying it’s Brienne that’s going to be there, because that’s who is there in the books. And then Jaime will join her in the late season. Occum’s razor – that’s who it’s going to involve because that’s who it involves in the original story. And as you pointed out, there aren’t really many other options.

Maybe this means Lady Stoneheart actually is going to feature, or maybe it just means that someone else, something else is going to substitute (Blackfish and Edmure? Someone else we’re not thinking of?) But the main characters that will be present there are Brienne first, then Jaime (then apparently Arya). I’d put money on it.

She’s much taller and stronger than the average woman (and quite a lot of men as well). She’s also a formally trained swordsman. Furthermore, Jaime was not at his best when they fought because his hands were bound and he’d been imprisoned for a year, and the Hound was suffering from an infected wound (although they didn’t stress this as much in the show).

The writers had her kill Stannis because it’s a kind of a poetic justice for her to do it, with his first great sin (killing his brother) finally coming back to bite him in the ass at the end.

You’re reading more into her character and portrayal in the show (which isn’t that different from her book counterpart tbh) than what’s really there I think.

Looking at that picture HotPinkLipstick posted, I’m wondering if it isn’t Margaery (in her newfound “devout” role) who doesn’t send Lord Commander Jaime to the Riverlands because there’s been disturbing reports of septs being burnt, outlaws raiding the villages, and septa’s being raped. If he goes to the Riverlands to deal with all of those situations, that necessarily puts him into contact with all of these various characters. It also has the added bonus of leaving Margaery (and a whole host of Tyrell soldiers) alone with Cersei. It could be a power play on Margaery’s part.

It seems unlikely they will do Stoneheart now but they could do something similar – revenge attacks on the Freys with a Stark loyalist (Howland Reed) and a bunch of outlaws.
This could be interesting because in the books (though not in the show) Jamie feels quite a lot of guilt towards Rhaegar. What would happen if he discovered Jon was Rhaegar’s son?

Absolutely. I find it frustrating when people act like Sansa is Brienne’s story. Brienne has eight POV chapters and an identity and voice of her own. Sansa has her story, but Sansa is just the plot mover for Brienne. And Brienne becomes the plot mover for Jaime, and through Brienne, Sansa, after Jaime leaves the RL. Jaime and Brienne are individual stories and not just players in someone else’s.

How so? She is one of the best fighters in Westeros. Even in the books, she wins Jaime’s respect, albeit grudgingly, and she beats Loras, so it isn’t like her being such a great fighter is without precedent. I do wish the fight between Brienne and Jaime in the show had gone more the way it did in the books, but I had no problem with how it was adapted. It isn’t like Jaime was fully healthy and unfettered, but she still beat him.

M: It would be really helpful from a spoiler perspective if someone assembled the information regarding all the sightings on sets of the various directors and then constructed some sort of summary tying the scenes they were filming to the episodes (1×01 or 1×02, e.g.).

I made an attempt, but it isn’t updated/accurate obviously and I won’t be updating it in the coming weeks because life happens.

Jaime and the lady of tarth will wed and rebuild the lanister family tree from honorable sane stock. I am one of the few people that really enjoyed roy’s reading of her travels, Gwen has taken that character to another level. Here is a thought maybe she saves Jaime from the BwB or even Arya! What if Jaime leads his army to fight or pulls the army from KL? I just get the feeling that Jaime will realize that its time to be the knight/head of the family like his “father” wanted but not be as nasty about as others have. I am not that romantic normally, I really hope J + B happens its like the really need each other.

I also hope Sam stands up to his family and shows them how he has changed!

Oh, I did not know about the release of Testament of Youth in Belgium this week, so yeah, it may be a recent interview, but it reminded sooo much (and I mean, almost word by word) of another interview I read a while back (right around the time when some of the main cast members signed contracts until seasons 6 or 7).

That’s a rather sweeping statement you’re making.I hated Stannis in the books, and I would hazard a guess I’m not the only one.

Why would anyone hate Stannis in the books? He’s not Jon-Snow-good (or naive), but he is not incompetent like his brother or utterly loathesome like Joffrey. And frankly, he has been more ethical and shown better judgement than Dany on both the screen and the page.

Go back and read reviews written after S5E09, particularly unsullied ones. I can recall a number of them saying they’d rather see Ramsay kill Stannis than vice versa. That’s certainly not a rational emotion to feel for the book character, but as far as I can tell it was the emotion that D&D were trying to draw out. I think they overdid it, though, as those same reviews often indicate that the Stannis drama overwhelmed the rest of the episode.

Stannis is intended to be a morally ambigious character in the books. D&D made him appear incompetent and evil. That’s not “adaptation”, nor telling the same “story”. Nor is it good writing to remove one of the few sources of ethical neutrality in your story, especially when so many other characters are being white-washed.

Dude was willing to burn Edric, his own nephew, in the books. He didn’t want to, if it wasn’t necessary, but he was willing to if that is what it took to get the iron throne. He willingly participated in the murders of Renly and Cortney Penrose through dark magic. He is a great character, but he is a kinslayer. No man is as cursed as the kinslayer.

Chad Brick: Why would anyone hate Stannis in the books? He’s not Jon-Snow-good (or naive), but he is not incompetent like his brother or utterly loathesome like Joffrey.And frankly, he has been more ethical and shown better judgement than Dany on both the screen and the page.

Go back and read reviews written after S5E09, particularly unsullied ones. I can recall a number of them saying they’d rather see Ramsay kill Stannis than vice versa. That’s certainly not a rational emotion to feel for the book character, but as far as I can tell it was the emotion that D&D were trying to draw out. I think they overdid it, though, as those same reviews often indicate that the Stannis drama overwhelmed the rest of the episode.

Stannis is intended to be a morally ambigious character in the books. D&D made him appear incompetent and evil. That’s not “adaptation”, nor telling the same “story”. Nor is it good writing to remove one of the few sources of ethical neutrality in your story, especially when so many other characters are being white-washed.

People have different likes. Stannis is the epitome of the type of masculinity that was once praised and glorified – ‘harsh but fair’, and also closed in themselves, unemotional – and a lot of people, men and women, are tired of the trope/ stereotype, and especially of its glorification. We just prefer our men to be both fair and unafraid to be emotionally open.

Stannis will probably win the battle at WF in the books, but then come across a different difficulty (like the Wall about to fall or something). And by that time, just like in the show, he probably will be deep in his own ass thinking he’s an Azor Ahai pretender and has to commit a personal sacrifice because the legend says AA made one. And so, just like in the show, he will burn Shireen. And it will fail. DnD just probably shortened this path while keeping the major gist (a sceptic starts to use faith as a weapon, gradually starts to believe his own shit because faith conveniently tells him that he’s oh-so-special and that he just *needs* to commit atrocities to realise his ~~*special snowflake destiny*~~, it ends badly when the sceptic is no longer useful) because they wanted to free time/resources for Euron and the Northern Uprising next season. Yeah, so it sucks if you’re a Stannis fan, but the story is larger than just him.

As someone who loves the books and loves the show I consider show-Brienne to affect the quality of the show in a negative way.For most of the part events in this universe can be considered to go on a realistic and logical path.I won yesterday,I loose today,maybe I will rise again tomorrow.Or not.You know,like real life.Not with show-Brienne,at least not yet.Ok,Gregor was infected,injured and Brienne in her best day can beat him.It’s still a questionable decision to do that since he is supposed to be so strong but fine.It’s plausible,a one time event.Then they overdid it in season 5,her arc is in contrast will all the atmosphere in this show so far.The fight with the Vale knights was so off character I don’t even want to talk about it,her quest in the books shows us that in a scenario like that she would have been killed or captured,to many of them.Never happened in show universe either,just look at other deaths.It was a huge stretch.Then for the biggest of them all in episode 10,a complete outsider who cannot pass as being part of any of the forces involved goes on the field of the battle and just finds one of the kings with no other of his men anywhere around him and no enemies anywhere around him.She wasn’t even undercover in one of the armies or something,it’s all just dumb for the standards of this show.Something like that belongs in Xena or Hercules,not ASOIAF or GoT.This comes from someone that loves the show and defends D&D when they deserve it because I really appreciate all the hard work.They can do fan service in this show too,it’s their call,but they need to keep it in reasonable limits,so it could fit with the rest of the show.

Not to disagree with you about the events in the season 5 finale being incredibly contrived, they were. However, I don’t think her fight with the Vale knights was any different than the Hound’s in the Inn or Jorah,Daario, and Greyworm in Yunkai. I’m sure there were others too. I don’t have a problem with that sort of thing. It’s there for entertainment purposes.

Stannis is intended to be a morally ambigious character in the books. D&D made him appear incompetent and evil. That’s not “adaptation”, nor telling the same “story”. Nor is it good writing to remove one of the few sources of ethical neutrality in your story, especially when so many other characters are being white-washed.

Stannis isn’t a POV character in the books. His story was largely narrated through the voice of what I’d call “unreliable narrators”. Most of the good we hear of him comes through Davos Seaworthy, who is one of the fundamentally good people in the books, one that I truly can’t see any reader not rooting for, but suffers from a major inferiority complex and idolises the person he who “lifted” him from the life of crime. The opposing view is first given by a Maester who is loosing his mind, and whose judgement the reader is supposed to doubt, as a result. This is a very common narrative device used in mystery genre, especially psychological thriller, starting from Agatha Christie’s The Mysterious Affair at Styles. As an avid reader of the genre, especially the recently deceased Ruth Rendell, I’ve had a very uneasy feeling book!Stannis almost straight from the beginning. I also think that Season 5 ending was a true spoiler for AWoW (a bit like I feel Ser Barristan’s death was a spoiler too, he won’t die in battle, but will be assassinated by someone inside Mereen). Book!Stannis fans will have rug drawn under their feet big time.

It’s difficult to say exactly how Stannis’s demise will unfold in the books, but I’m 99% sure he will not take Winterfell and about 80% sure that the Pink Letter is telling the truth. His bits in Winds will just tell us exactly how it happened.

Another interesting possibility someone mentioned is that Stannis is defeated but doesn’t die, and instead falls back to Castle Black where he’ll be personally involved in Shireen’s sacrifice.

Either way, I think now that D&D gave Stannis the axe early so Jon could take over some of his stuff from Dance. The audience loves Jon and can connect to him more than they can with Stannis, who I think most people would say is a very hard man to like in both the show and books (I know I don’t like him much).

And some more thoughts:
1. I’m actually a (book AND show) Stannis fan – but a lot of ‘Stannis fans’ seem to have been blinded to his actual qualities, and take a ‘Stannis cannot fail, Stannis can only be failed’ (e.g. by Mel and co.) approach. I can only assume that this is because they have fallen for the ‘harsh/fair/jaded/guarded/not showing emotion/borderline autistic = cool and manly, and definitely better than openly idealistic and especially female’ trope.
2. Brienne is actually a very prominent current character on the show who examplifies “harsh but fair, not showing emotion”. Yet a lot of Stannis fans don’t like her – they say that she’s unlikeable (while, besides Stannis, they also liked Tywin, who is also an example of this trope). I wonder why.
Actually, this is the Internet, so I’ll say it out right so that there are no misunderstandings: it’s because she’s a woman encroaching on the sacred territory of Traditional Manliness.
3. And one last thing. The type of literary character who vacillates “love or duty”… We’re supposed to sympathise with them and their hard choice… understand them, maybe, a bit… appreciate them being able to make the difficult decision in spite of emotional trouble. But the truth is, this type of character usually in the end chooses “duty” ; the ‘hard choices’ frequently are not. What’s chosen is what appeals to one’s pride, what makes the character appear ‘manly’, ‘a man not afraid of making hard choices’ (just recall Jack Nicholson screaming “You can’t handle the truth!”).

And D&D actually brought some freshness into this stale trope, by stating outright that the choice is, in fact, false, and putting themselves squarely on Shireen’s, the victim’s, side. And that’s, in my opinion, new and cool.

Conleth Hill says that as a joke, someone edited his Wikipedia page to claim that he was a fisherman and that he went into acting because he was inspired by his “first wife” (when Hill was never a fisherman and has never been married), and that he knows who it is.

…I always assumed Conleth Hill was gay, so it seems like an odd “prank” to edit a fictitious first wife into his Wikipedia page.

When Jamie encounters Ned Stark in season 1 and Jamie explained why he became a Kingslayer I felt it was a very good reason and that Ned should have understood and would have hopefully done the same thing. He seems to fault Jamie for not standing up for his brother yet he thinks it wrong of him to save hundreds of people from burning?

I’m thinking Stannis is still alive. That Brienne whacked the tree and at first she’s mad at herself and doesn’t know why she’s letting him live but then she rationalizes it and him, and they teem up and go after Melisandre the coercer and shadow baby birther. I also believe Arya will turn evil with the whole serving the god of death thing and Jon will be up against her in the end and that will be very painful for him.

I like the actress but I’m not a fan of how she plays, or rather perhaps how they direct her to play Danaerys. They need to let the viewers get inside her head a little more. To see what she’s feeling and how she comes to decisions etc. Right now she comes off pretty wooden and one-dimensional imo. It’s hard to root for her because she seems to have lost the vulnerability and is instead pretty smug.

I don’t think she is smug at all, she tried to change Slavers bay, it didn’t go the way she wanted, but she did try to do whats best for the people.
I agree on her being stiff, but I think that’s intentional, she has to be like that, she is the queen, she can’t show weakness. But there is still a little girl down there, as we saw in her scenes with Barristen, when she drops the queen act, and is just curious about her bigger brother.
Or her scenes with Dario, where we see another side of her, more relaxed.. And with Tyrion, where she looks relived, that she finally has someone that can advise her, on politics. Jorah is good, same with Barry, but they don’t really now much of rulling a city/kingdom.

Now her being back with the Dothraki, I expect more of Dany from S3. Determined, and motivated.
Altough I never expect Dany from S1 back, she overcame that, she assumed her role of mother of dragons. And her rightfull role as Queen of westeros.

But I can easly see why some people might not like her, or the way Emilia portrays her. I personally tough, think Emilia is the perfect Dany, and I enjoy her acting greatly.

I like Dany, but she definitely has some faults. She can either be too arrogant and headstrong, or too meek and easily influenced. She can also be overly idealistic, focusing too much on how things should be and not enough on how things are.

I also worry about the famous Targaryen madness, her being the child of the Mad King and having a brother who was a bit of a nut himself.

Still, out of all of the people who have vied for the throne so far, she’s the one I’d most likely cast my lot in with. Although my real hope is that no one will rule and the Iron Throne will actually be completely destroyed in the end. The wheel must be broken.

Talvivaara: Stannis isn’t a POV character in the books. His story was largely narrated through the voice of what I’d call “unreliable narrators”. Most of the good we hear of him comes through Davos Seaworthy, who is one of the fundamentally good people in the books, one that I truly can’t see any reader not rooting for, but suffers from a major inferiority complex and idolises the person he who “lifted” him from the life of crime. The opposing view is first given by a Maester who is loosing his mind, and whose judgement the reader is supposed to doubt, as a result. This is a very common narrative device used in mystery genre, especially psychological thriller, starting from Agatha Christie’s The Mysterious Affair at Styles. As an avid reader of the genre, especially the recently deceased Ruth Rendell, I’ve had a very uneasy feeling book!Stannis almost straight from the beginning. I also think that Season 5 ending was a true spoiler for AWoW (a bit like I feel Ser Barristan’s death was a spoiler too, he won’t die in battle, but will be assassinated by someone inside Mereen). Book!Stannis fans will have rug drawn under their feet big time.

Yes, I agree with this. We see Stannis mainly through Davos, throughout the books. Davos is a very loyal supporter of Stannis, he is one of the truly good characters and he always wants to believe the best of Stannis. And yet despite being such a loyal servant of Stannis, Stannis still locks Davos in the dungeons. Some of the first scenes we ever see from Stannis is where he humiliates Maester Cressen, someone who has also been a loyal servant to him. Stannis is an interesting character in some ways, but it does well to remember that he is mostly represented from Davos’s point of view in the most positive light.

Because we see the characters through their point of view or someone else’s it leads to interesting perspectives which GRRM uses well at times. The different opinions of Jaime is another good example here. While Ned Stark has good reasons to mistrust Jaime for killing Aerys, we can understand that Jaime had good reasons to kill Aerys.

The situation between Jon and Bowen Marsh are also interesting from this perspective. A lot of people understand and have a bit of empathy towards Bowen Marsh. But the interesting thing is that we actually only see Bowen Marsh through Jon’s point of view. Which actually shows how much understanding and empathy Jon had towards Bowen Marsh’s position.

The show has more of an omnipresent perspective at times, they have a more balanced portrayal of a character like Stannis. I think Stannis might actually still win the battle for Winterfell in the books. But I think it is likely that he would be killed off soon after the battle by one of the Northern Lords, it could be a betrayal of the North. People are rooting for Stannis to win the battle of Winterfell, and people are rooting for the North in general. It would be more interesting to have a betrayal were people want to see both sides do well.

As for Brienne I think it was actually unnecessary to make her a POV character. Perhaps she still has some bigger part to play, but I dont think we really needed her personal narrative. I find book Brienne’s naivety and insecurity more enduring then show Brienne. I dont think book Brienne ever realized that Renly was actually gay, which might make you more sympathetic towards Brienne, but other then that they seem quite similar.
I think all of the tales about who the best fighters in the realms is, is also something that is very unreliable. The Southerners mostly base their opinion on popular, well known knights who does well at tournaments. Showing characters like Brienne beat some of the best known sword fighters in the realm, shows you that some of these general opinions are unreliable.

Agreed about major spoilers. I’d like to know who is playing Tarly but apart from that I’m feeling it’s time to clear out until April to avoid any big ones. It’ll be fun to watch not knowing too much of what happens. Especially not who dies.

– Jaime & Bronn will head to the RL for unknown reasons at some point after episode 6×06. They probably won’t arive there before 6×08/6×09 since there must be at least one “aftermath”-episode where Jaime is confronted by Cercei for releasing Margaery and sent away on his new mission
– Arya will head to the RL for unknown reasons at some point after episode 6×08
– David Bradley was seen in Belfast so Walder Frey will probably return in season 6
– They cast a character who is presumably a new Frey son and appears in 3 episodes
– They cast a character who is presumably a Septon Meribald / Elder Brother equivalent. There are also rumors of the Hound returning as a Faith novice.
– They cast a band of outlaws who are presumably the Brotherhood without Banners and appear in 2 episodes? Ian McShane’s character is somehow involved with them.

Considering that no main character will be in the Riverlands before 6×08 as far as we know, there can’t be a big storyline. The limited screen time basically rules out major developments or character interactions like Jaime lifting the Siege of Riverrun and meeting the Blackfish/Edmure/Genna/etc. or someone bringing down the Freys in season 6. Of course, they could rush through it: Maybe Arya joins the theatre group in Braavos, they get booked to perform at a Frey family feast, travel to Westeros and Arya kills Walder in 6×10 without any build-up or Jaime simply gets captured by the BwB (now lead by McShane’s character? Blackfish recast maybe?) while on the road to whereever he’s going and the season ends with a similar cliffhanger as ADWD. But this would feel pointless and rushed. I don’t see how all these Riverland characters fit into a single storyline which only lasts 3 episodes. It is possible that the Freys are somehow involved in the Northern storyline through their alliance with House Bolton though.

Assuming that the Hound is still alive and with the Meribald/EB character there is also the question what he is going to do this season. Re-introducing him through Jaime would not make much sense since the two of them never really had a scene together. Re-introducing him through a person from his “former life” like Brienne, Sansa or – of course – Arya would have a much greater impact. And if he isn’t re-introduced until ep. 6×08-6×10 “Clegane-Bowl” (if it ever happens) is no longer an option for this season, which means Cercei’s trial by combat would be delayed to season 7. The KL-story would move at a snail pace.

There could be other main characters in the Riverlands before 6×08 of course, but the only possibilities are:
– Sam and Gilly on their way to Horn Hill if they travel by cart. They could be attacked by the outlaws or come across some Freys or Meribald & the Re-Hound, but since they are not involved in the Riverland-arc this would be a filler-scene with the only purpose to introduce the new characters.
– LF and the Vale army on their way north.
– Brienne and Podrick (and Sansa?) though I have no idea what could lead them there

Google translator of catalonic-spanish isn’t great, but what I could make out from that is that High Sparrow is on the stairs, the crowd acclaims him. He then gives a speech about how Margaery is now devout or something like that. Then Jaime appears with the Tyrell soldiers and demands that they release Margaery. Then Tommen and Margaery with several Kingsguard exit the sept.

I wonder if Kit will get into trouble because of this interview? Don’t think D&D / HBO people will be pleased with it. He not only spills the beans, but also seems to suggest that he would rather be doing other things than GOT….hope not though…lol

The King Who Cares: Considering that no main character will be in the Riverlands before 6×08 as far as we know, there can’t be a big storyline. The limited screen time basically rules out major developments or character interactions like Jaime lifting the Siege of Riverrun and meeting the Blackfish/Edmure/Genna/etc. or someone bringing down the Freys. Of course, they could rush through it

The lifting of the Siege of Riverrun, along with all the interactions you mention, happen in two Jaime chapters. Having 3 episodes of the TV show to do it wouldn’t be “rushing through it.” If something like the lifting of the siege happens, I’d be surprised if it takes more than one or two episodes.

In general, you’re right: the Riverlands is back, but it seems it will be only for the last three episodes. However, I disagree that it would feel rushed or abrupt, as a plotline (let alone a story arc) is not defined by geography. Jaime’s story will take him from one place to another, but it still is his story. We may learn about what’s going on with the Freys and the Tullys and the Brotherhood, but it won’t be their story. Indeed, it would be abrupt if suddenly, at the end of the season, new storylines sprung up in the Riverlands out of nowhere. But it won’t be like that; Jaime will bring his story to the Riverlands, as will Arya.

I don’t speak Catalan but Google translates pretty well from it to Spanish, so here it goes: As we know, Jaime, the High Sparrow, Margaery and Tommen are involved. No mention of other characters, such as Lancel and Olenna, who were reported by Los Siete Reinos. There were 139 Tyrell soldiers, as well as a few dozen other extras for the city folk and the Faith Militant.

The runtime of the scene is four minutes, which may seem brief but is quite a lot if you really think about it (also, that was just part of the scene; the rest will be filmed today.) The scene is described in detail, and it is VERY SPOILERY.

It begins with the High Sparrow going down the Sept’s stairs while the people applaud him. He explains that Queen Margaery has joined them in accepting the power of the Faith. Just then, Jaime Lannister bursts into the scene, on horseback and leading an army of a hundred and forty Tyrell soldiers, and demands that the High Sparrow free Queen Margaery. Suddenly, the gates of the Great Sept open —it is Tommen Baratheon, followed by Queen Margaery and the Kingsguards, who are bearing the Faith Militant’s sigil instead of the Royal sigil. The king and queen have accepted the High Sparrow’s reformed faith, and they are acclaimed by the people. It is emphasized that this is only the first part of the scene; the rest will be filmed today, and it is expected to be a trascendental scene in which the two factions come to blows.

This is BIG —”TWOW-spoilers-not-many-people-predicted big.” Sure, a few did see it coming, but it’s certainly not a popular theory I’ve heard of.

I know 😉 That’s why I said “or something similar.” Maybe it’s the other way around in the show and the Tullys are the ones sieging the castle. Or something. Jaime will be sent to do something in the Riverlands, obviously.

Exit81: Stannis isn’t the legitimate king. He thinks he is. He’s got a massive case of Middle Child Syndrome, though, always getting pissed at his brothers for getting what he wanted (the throne and Storm’s End). The rightful king of Westeros is whoever can take and hold the Iron Throne. Stannis could not do that, did not do that, lost the Battle of the Blackwater badly and ran away with his tail between his legs.

As far as Brienne was concerned, Renly was her king. Stannis killed him. Making Stannis both a kingslayer and a kinslayer.

he is no king because he’s not be crowned by the High Septon, but he is the legitimate heir to Robert. Renly has no claim and he knows it, he says that in the books, but he’s more charming than Stannis and has all the power of the reach behind him (he’s really a puppet in Tyrell hands) so he wages war because he can, like a bully. The lords who follow him know that to, but it’s convenient to them so they go with it. If they win, nobody will hold their treason against them.
Brienne doesn’t care for any of this, she just loves Renly. If Renly claimed to be the Messiah, she would have accepted it and condemned Stannis for Deicide.

You don’t want to go the “legitimate” rabbit hole. Fine, Stannis was Robert’s heir… but Robert stole the crown from the Targaryens! Who, in turn, created their reign by conquering a number of local kingdoms… who in turn took their power from previous kingdoms, and on and on and on we go.

I would argue this, Olenna herself says they should never have supported Renly.
So Renly convincing Mace, with Loras’s help is the more resonable conclusion, rether then the other way around.

EDIT: Can you really blame them for fighting for Renly tough? When they tried to kill Stannis 17 years earlier. Of course they would support Renly, he is charismatic, he has friends, and looks like he would do a decent king. Stanis on the other hand would face rebbelion every day of his reign. As a king you have to know when to compromise, Stannis does not know that.

Luka Nieto: Having 3 episodes of the TV show to do it wouldn’t be “rushing through it.” If something like the lifting of the siege happens, I’d be surprised if it takes more than one or two episodes.

Yes, if the story would only focus on Jaime lifting the siege and getting captured by the BwB in the season finale (cliffhanger), 3 episodes would be enough 😉 But there will also be scenes with Arya, Walder Frey, Meribald and the Hound(?) and the outlaws will appear in more than one episode… I guess not all of these scenes are connected to Jaime. This PLUS the Siege of Riverrun or something similar would be much for only 3 episodes featuring the Riverlands. Considering that there might also be a “travel-time” episode between Jaime’s KL and RL scenes (6×07 or 6×08) and he surely won’t have much screen time in all three final episodes (6×09 could mostly/completely be about the Northern battle) that seems a bit too much RL for 3 episodes only. And because all the side characters (Freys, Outlaws, Meribald, Edmure+Blackfish if they will re-appear) are probably located there, all scenes involving them have to take place in the RL, which means that a main character has to be there, too.

You don’t want to go the “legitimate” rabbit hole. Fine, Stannis was Robert’s heir… but Robert stole the crown from the Targaryens! Who, in turn, created their reign by conquering a number of local kingdoms… who in turn took their power from previous kingdoms, and on and on and on we go.

I don’t think ist’s a rabbit hole, unless you think of absolute and immutable. Something is lawful only until the law is changed, so until that Stannis is the legitimate heir. Robb and Balon rebelled thus rejecting law and system and they don’t fight for the Iron Throne indeed, theirs is sort of a revolution. Renly and his party on the contrary sill stick to the establishment and system so he is a traitor by his own law, but he’s not the one we should talk about because he’s just an idiot the Tyrells move anyway they like.

Nymeria Warrior Queen: If you have an issue with Brienne beating Loras, you should probably that at Martin’s feet, since, um, well, I don’t know how to break this to you…

Loras also loses to Brienne in the books.

How so?She is one of the best fighters in Westeros.Even in the books, she wins Jaime’s respect, albeit grudgingly, and she beats Loras, so it isn’t like her being such a great fighter is without precedent.I do wish the fight between Brienne and Jaime in the show had gone more the way it did in the books, but I had no problem with how it was adapted.It isn’t like Jaime was fully healthy and unfettered, but she still beat him.

I suggest you re-read Catelyn’s chapter concerning the Melee at Bitterbridge. The Blue Knight would have been dead many times over if Loras had been using real weapons. Brienne only “won” because she could survive having blows raining down on her head and shoulders and then one straight to the breastplate (at which point she grabbed Loras’s axe and physically overpowered him).

TV-Loras just got straight-up beat. Unless I am miscounting, Brienne scored four hits and Loras one before she tackled him after he disarmed her.

I would argue this, Olenna herself says they should never have supported Renly.
So Renly convincing Mace, with Loras’s help is the more resonable conclusion, rether then the other way around.

EDIT: Can you really blame them for fighting for Renly tough? When they tried to kill Stannis 17 years earlier. Of course they would support Renly, he is charismatic, he has friends, and looks like he would do a decent king. Stanis on the other hand would face rebbelion every day of his reign. As a king you have to know when to compromise, Stannis does not know that.

Given the fact that the first plan was to marry Robert to Marge i guess it wasn’t Renly’s ambition but Mace’s that started things so my take is Olenna using Loras’s influence over Renly all along.
On the second point I’m sorry but I agree with Olenna’s view that Renly is a pretty empty cardboard, good at playing at being a king and no more. He would even be a worse king than Robert.

Although the one thing that bothers me is… why would Jaime abandon Tommen once he has discovered that Marge has gone full fanatic? Especially if the ‘sudden influx of fatherly feelings’ theory is correct?

Although the one thing that bothers me is… why would Jaime abandon Tommen once he has discovered that Marge has gone full fanatic? Especially if the ‘sudden influx of fatherly feelings’ theory is correct?

If Tommen orders him to leave, he doesn’t have many choices. He’s sworn to obey the king.

lalla: If Tommen orders him to leave, he doesn’t have many choices. He’s sworn to obey the king.

Sure, but this solution feels wrong. It would mean that Tommen would advance to the rank of an actual player in the game. Furthermore, it feels like it should be Jaime’s decision, like going to Dorne was.

Yaga: Sure, but this solution feels wrong. It would mean that Tommen would advance to the rank of an actual player in the game. Furthermore, it feels like it should be Jaime’s decision, like going to Dorne was.

I don’t think Tommen would never became a “player” and he doesn’t have to to order Jamie around, for example if Marge asks, or convinces, or begs Tommen to send Jaime away for whatever reason.
That said, it’s just a theory. The decision being Jaime’s is a valid one, like he feels things are safe in KL for the King and he’s needed somewhere in the Riverlands to secure Tommen’s reign.
I think there should be nevertheless some sort of prompt from Tommen because, as Kingsguard, Jaime is supposed to stay by the King and not go around doing stuff on his own initiative.

This could be a result of cutting Aegon. I always assumed the Faith would resist beheading the very popular Margaery; the Faith has more to gain by allying with her and with the Tyrells than it does by alienating them. Meanwhile, Cersei would turn the Tyrells against the Lannisters by trying to kill Margaery. Failing that, she could declare Margaery’s marriage with Tommen invalid by virtue of non-consummation. Aegon would then side with the Faith and the Tyrells, offering to marry Margaery.

The show has an older Tommen, who has consummated his marriage to Margaery. The show has cut Aegon, got rid of charges of adultery against Margaery, and turned Tommen against Cersei. In this scenario, Tommen takes Aegon’s place, and allies with Margaery and the Faith against his mother. I’ve no clue whom Jaime would side with if faced with that; I’m guessing that he’d side with his son.

Either scenario would make Margaery “the younger, more beautiful” one who takes everything away from Cersei. In either scenario, Cersei could set fire to KL, as she’s been threatening to. In either, Jaime could put his paws around his sister, and strangle her.

yeah exactly. Kevan is Hand, Margery obviously wants peace, Cersei is going off the rails… it only makes sense for Tommen (probably Kevan) to command Jamie to go to the Twins and release Edmure, and return him to Riverrun, breaking the seige there and striking a peace between the Tullys and Lannisters.

That just leaves Jon Stark to take care of the traitors in the NW, unite them with the Wildlings, meet up with Sansa, learn Rickon is alive, and get him appointed Lord of Winterfell, unite the Northern Lords, and march on the Boltons, have a huge battle, lose some main characters, probably Davos and Tormund and Edd, definitely Ramsey and possibly Roose as a hostage.

so then we’ve got a legitimate truce down south with the Tullys and a legitimate Lord of Winterfell, suddenly a truce with King Tommen legitimising Rickon as Warden of the North doesn’t seem so bad, especially with intelligent players like Kevan around instead of Joffery and Tywin….

unfortunately peace never lasts, kevan is killed by Varys to destablise KL, Tommen is assassinated, Cersei goes insane and blows up the red keep in KL with wildfire, Dany and Euron arrive with Dragons, and just when it looks like everything is about to go completely tits up, the horn of jourmound is blown and the wall comes down, and the walkers and wight invade Westeros….
… Cut to black

Jon and Davos are arguably the most decent characters with power in Westeros, more so in Jon’s case of course as he is a commander/leader. I would imagine the (northern) small folk could not hope for a more just, fair and benevolent leadership tandem. Having said that, if Jon becomes Warden of the North or better yet King in the North and head figure for the Riverlands (and the Vale if Sansa works her magic), I hope he gets a more political savvy number 2 than Davos. Jon has the makings of a great leader but he doesn’t know how to handle intrigue and enemies who pose as friends. He lacks the malice of a politician. Davos would not help in this sense, he would warn Jon about dangers and betrayals but would most likely provide him with the same advice Jon could have come up with on his own. Daeny is extremely lucky to have landed Tyrion who will make or break her rule. Daeny doesn’t need Tyrion to conquer but she will need him to keep the throne if she ever does gain it. I am hoping for a Tyrion like mind to help advise Jon. Maybe the Queen of Thorns can be cloned?

Maybe neither Jon nor Dany will end up ruling? According to her epiphany at the end of Dance, Dany is a war leader. She wants fire and blood. Planting trees and nurturing crops and developing economies is not her thing. That’s perfect, if she wants to conquer Westeros, but it’s not perfect if she wants to sit on a throne and rule it. Jon is, I think, more a ruler than she is, in that in the novels he gets into bargaining for loans and contemplating green houses for growing crops. The show never worked on these aspects of Jon, which leads me to think that he’ll be in a really bad mood upon his return (being assassinated will do that to you) and he’ll be in a worse mood when he finds out Ned lied to him all his life about being his dad. Jon might be in the mood for blood, too.

Anyhow, I’d bet someone other than the obvious (Dany and/or Jon) will take the throne at the end.

First you’re telling me to read reviews of a season already past (thanks, but I’m capable of forming my own opinions without the input of others), then you’re telling me to go back and reread a chapter in the books (which, btw, I just reread a few days ago, and, yeah, Loras still lost to Brienne, which was part of your complaint), as though I couldn’t help but change my opinion to yours if I do so. People have different opinions. You have yours, I have mine.

I’ll say it again, I hated Stannis in the books. In addition to what Tyrion Pimpslap already pointed out about him being a kinslayer, at least a couple of times over, he sanctioned the burning of innocent people because they would not convert to Melissandre’s religion, one of which was his wife’s own brother, if I remember correctly. The worst part about that is he isn’t even a true believer. Melissandre and R’hllor are a means to an end for him, and if some innocent people need to die because Melissandre says so, well, ok. Moreover, he is also an oathbreaker. He turned his back on his rightful King to back his brother. Sure, he said it was a difficult decision, and, yes, The Mad King was, well, mad, nevertheless, he still broke his oath. Then he turns around and condemns others for what he also did? That makes him a hypocrite. Those are more than enough reasons for me to hate Stannis. Just because I can’t stand him doesn’t mean I expect everyone else to agree with me. It’s just my own personal view.

I think it shows that honour isn’t always desirable. He chose his conscious over his honour. Either way I think it certainly made him more endearing that he was the only one even questioning their orders.

She’s not that good in the books really. She beat Loras who admitted he’s much better with a lance than sword (his brother is a different story) and just had the upper hand over a severly limited Jaime as they were caught. Other than that, she’s scrapped through a few scuffles with bandits unconvincingly and that’s about it. May be because I read the books first but I find the amping up of her fighting ability to be distracting and uneeded.

The ironic thing is that JAime was the one person in court who did question it and nmay even have done something if his KG brothers hadn’t stopped him. I found Ned’s hatred of him a bit unreasonable. He hated him for killing the Mad King in a “dishonourable” way and yet he was in open rebellion against the King. The “By what right does the wolf judge the lion” is particularly apt.

Just wanted to add that Stannis’ hypocrisy is the reason why I could never truly respect him as a character. I don’t hate Stannis, and by the way I see little difference between the book version and the tv version, Stannis’ fans make it seem like Dillane portrayed him as a completely different character which is completely inaccurate. I don’t hate Stannis, I think him a better ruling option than Cersei, Bolton, Jamie, Twyin and at times Daenerys but I cannot stand his hypocrisy, his inability to own up to his own crimes while harshly judging others. He abhors oath breakers yet he has no problem asking Jon to break his own vow, he abandoned Ned Stark when he was very aware of what Ned would be facing. He didn’t bat an eye at the suggestion of Mel killing Robb even though he had to had known that Ned put his life at risk to buy him time to come claim the throne. And he murdered his own brother in a most vile way. So no, while I hope Stannis would triumph against the Boltons (and this only because the Starks need military help), I was never going to shed a tear for his demise. Every reader should have known that Stannis was never going to have a good ending, not after murdering his own brother with dark magic.

TheTouchOfFrost: She’s not that good in the books really. She beat Loras who admitted he’s much better with a lance than sword (his brother is a different story) and just had the upper hand over a severly limited Jaime as they were caught.

Nevertheless, book-Loras is considered one of the best fighters in Westeros, whether he’s better with a lance than a sword, or not. Chad was complaining about Brienne beating Loras in the show, and I was simply pointing out she did so in the books, too. As for her show-fight with Jaime, they showed Jaime at a distinct disadvantage…weakened from his long captivity and with his hands chained together. I had no problem believing under those circumstances, Brienne would win. It isn’t like, at least to my eye, they showed her just dominating him, nor did they make it appear as though she was fighting an anywhere near top-form Jaime. Had they done that, I could see your point, but again, to my eye, it wasn’t that way.

(I know you don’t like show Brienne, but I also don’t see you going nearly as far as I interpreted Chad’s posts, wherein he seems to attribute the lessening of certain characters to Brienne beating them, when two of the characters he mentioned were also beaten by Brienne in the books. )

As I like Daenerys and I LOVE Jon, I hope neither is burden with having to rule Westeros. I hope Daenerys makes peace with her family’s past and is able to let go so she can go find her red door and lemon tree, find a family of her own and live a long normal life. And I hope Jon is freed from the Night’s Watch, reunites with his pack, watches over them until all the pups are ready to survive on their own and then gets his own family and land.

But this is the series where misery reigns and so I do think both Daenerys and Jon will have more suffering to go through and at least one of them will be burden by that ugly chair, Daeny because she seeks it and Jon because it may be forced upon him. In the books, Jon’s chapters are usually accompanied with King references and at some point that has to come into play. The R+L=J theory gives him immediate royal blood, Robb’s will makes him heir to the North and successor to the Northern Crown, the wildlings pledged their allegiances not to the Watch but to him and then there’s Mormont’s raven who calls him King. Granted, Jon being King (and I think he was born one) doesn’t mean he will rule but it makes him a candidate to do so. As for coming back a different man, that would be a tragedy. Can one evil deed undo all the 14 years of being taught to become an honorable and decent man? I mean, I think the attack will rob him of whatever innocence he had left but just like Arya, Sansa and Bran, I think Jon will in the end remember he’s Eddard’s child and do him proud.

What do you mean marriage btw R & L was impossible? The text points out on numerous occasion the Targeryan habit/custom of polygamy. It could be just a random fact thrown in by George, but its brought up a few times. And it might be a small foreshadowing clue to Jon being the legitimate heir. (Also the simple fact that the Kingsguard was protecting the Tower makes it hard to ignore something had transpired btw L and R to make L legible for such protection).

I hope neither is king and queen, for the reasons you suggest, but also because Dany talks about “breaking the wheel” on the show. Dany and/or Jon on the throne is the opposite of breaking the wheel, in that they’re a return to Targs and their dragons, back in control of Westeros. I think a broken wheel means someone new on that throne, and a new status quo.

I don’t think Loras really does anything of note in the book with regards to swordsmanship except kill a couple of his felllow Rainbow Guard.
Just think it would have been good if they’d shown how good Jaime was. To enhance both him and Brienne. Got a vain hope that he gets somewhere near back to his previous ability in the show as the dyslexia mention and his training and line to Tywin suggest. A man can hope.

At that point in time, which I was referring to, it was impossible. Mainly because Rheagar was dead! Even if he wasn’t the Targ dynasty was collapsing and Lyanna dying in childbirth.
Again though I raise the point of how will Jon be legitimised when it is in no one with the power to do so to do it? Even if R and L did have some sort of secret wedding…again no one would recognise it as legitimate. All the Targ loyalists have rallied behind Dany. The north is the only faction that might possibly accept him but would the north rally around a Targaryen after what their family did to the Starks? Going to take some pretty inventive plot-making for Jon to find himself in a position to compete for the Iron Throne!

he didnt say much, just that he’s under contract for a few more years. its common knowledge a few of them (kit, emilia, peter, lena, etc) have a 7 year contract. yes, we can read into it (mostly by wishful thinking) but bottom line, nothing earth shattering was revealed.

I, too, would have loved the chance to see Jaime fighting at full strength, in whatever context. We’ve heard so much about how good he was, and it would have been great to see it, no matter the opponent.

I also hold out the same hope in terms of Jaime getting back somewhere close to his former ability. I can’t help but think (hope) his discovery of the gold hand being useful will serve to send him in that direction. Instead of seeing himself as a man with only one hand, his left hand, no less, with his right arm and “prosthetic” just being completely useless, he can begin to think about fighting a little differently. Yes, that moment he discovered his gold hand could be useful was funny, at least to me (I loved the way NCW played it), but I have hope they will build on the discovery his gold hand can be used to his advantage.

Targeryans were known to have openly practice polygamy. Faith of Seven doesnt allow it. Those are facts. We dont know much more beyond this. This leaves room for a lot of speculation. Yet you seem to be speaking (writing 🙂 ) with certainty. If the Targs did as they pleased, in terms of marriage,why would R need anyone to legitimize him?

I do wonder what will Dany’s reaction be if Jon is a Targ. Happiness, relief, envy, resentment? Combo of each? He is her only remaining relative. And based on her book dream, it seems she will have a warm reception of him.

As far as the North is concerned, they might support Jon since he is half Stark and was raised by the beloved Ned. Especially with the influence of Sansa and/or Rickon. Doesnt seem thats much of an issue. Especially when the alternatives arent so much better. After King Jofferey, the nasty Bolton wardens, I can see the North being ecstatic about having a Targ/Stark hybrid as their king 😉

Ok, the original point someone ( I forget who now) made was suggesting something that would have maybe made some ddifference to something happened which was R and L getting married. I was pointing out that at the point it would have happened then it would have been impossible for the reasons given above.
Who would legitimse Jon Snow? It is to the benefit of no one. The Lannisters/Tyrells certianly won’t. Dany wouldn’t. I doubt anyone in the north would with the history of what the last Targ ruler did. Plus why would they rally around Ned’s bastard when Rickon and Sansa are still legit Starks up there. Whom else has the power or desire to? Plus as you say the faith doesn’t allow polygamy and they have a strong following now.
Some pretty crazy shit is going to have to happen for Jon to sit the Iron Throne. The only way I can see it happening is if LF has some sort of intricate plan…but again I see no reason why he’d want Jon on the Throne?

First you’re telling me to read reviews of a season already past (thanks, but I’m capable of forming my own opinions without the input of others), then you’re telling me to go back and reread a chapter in the books (which, btw, I just reread a few days ago, and, yeah, Loras still lost to Brienne, which was part of your complaint), as though I couldn’t help but change my opinion to yours if I do so.People have different opinions.You have yours, I have mine.

I’ll say it again, I hated Stannis in the books.In addition to what Tyrion Pimpslap already pointed out about him being a kinslayer, at least a couple of times over, he sanctioned the burning of innocent people because they would not convert to Melissandre’s religion, one of which was his wife’s own brother, if I remember correctly.The worst part about that is he isn’t even a true believer.Melissandre and R’hllor are a means to an end for him, and if some innocent people need to die because Melissandre says so, well, ok.Moreover, he is also an oathbreaker.He turned his back on his rightful King to back his brother.Sure, he said it was a difficult decision, and, yes, The Mad King was, well, mad, nevertheless, he still broke his oath.Then he turns around and condemns others for what he also did?That makes him a hypocrite.Those are more than enough reasons for me to hate Stannis.Just because I can’t stand him doesn’t mean I expect everyone else to agree with me.It’s just my own personal view.

Are you disputing that Brienne was getting whipped at the melee by Loras and only won because of blunted weapons? That’s certainly not what was shown on TV, where she flat-out won. This isn’t a matter of “interpretation”. It is a matter of plain text reading and judging of the fight in the show.

As for Stannis, are you claiming that he is insufficiently biased towards his kin? That’s an odd reason to hate someone. I find it a matter of merit! Human bias towards their own family, cultural group, race etc is a root of a lot evil in the world and the fact that Stannis is less biased is a good thing. If you wouldn’t sacrifice one person you loved in order to save the world, you wouldn’t be a good leader, not matter how pure your heart or clean your hands. And if you would sacrifice someone else’s loved one but not your own, boy do we have a disagreement on ethics.

I believe your “if I remember correctly” is indeed incorrect. Stannis was at Blackwater when Selyse ordered Guncer Sunglass to be burned. Stannis had nothing to do with this decision as far as we know. Book Stannis has only burned traitors and criminals. The fact that the TV show quickly depicted him as burning innocents was a significant character deviation (and should have been a clue as to how D&D were going to trash him). Alester Florent was burned for treason after he tried to make peace with the Lannisters behind Stannis’s back in order to re-gain his lost castle, not because of religion.

I also dispute that Stannis, or anyone opposing Aerys, was an oathbreaker. Even if Stannis had actually made some oath, it was Aerys who failed to hold up his end of the bargain. Aerys had long since forfeited any just claim to the throne with this vile and cruel behavior. The Rebellion was just, as was Robert’s usurping the throne. If you are going to hate Stannis for this reason, don’t you also have to hate Ned? In any case, Stannis would only be a hypocrite if he behaved like Aerys and still demanded people follow him. He has done no such thing.

Ok, Chad, you continue on with your view that your interpretation of things is the only correct one (no wonder you’re such a Stannis fan!), and I’ll continue on trying to respect the fact different people have different interpretations of things, even when I don’t agree with them.

TheTouchOfFrost: I feel Jon’s plot stays in the north and with the Whitewalkers. Not sure if he’d even want to sit the Iron Throne.

I agree. Even if in the books Jon dreamed of being the Lord of Winterfell, when he was very young… And when Stannis offers him the North, he’s really tempted… But I don’t see him sitting on a throne – especially the Iron Throne – at the end of this story, like a sort of Aragorn… No, I see him more as the tragic hero who saves the world but is severely injured (well, he already is…), like Frodo… Or maybe even more tragic: he saves the world and then perish (again!), after the final battle… Or maybe he’ll spend the rest of his life drinking with Tormund! 😀
Anyway, in the LotR-style “bittersweet” ending that GRRM has in mind, I think Jon will play the Frodo role, while Dany will be the Aragorn of this situation… or maybe Tyrion, who knows. 😀
But I don’t see a coplete happy ending for Jon… In this “bittersweet” ending, I think Jon will take the “bitter” and leave the “sweet” for the others… That’s what heroes do.

lalla: why would Jaime abandon Tommen once he has discovered that Marge has gone full fanatic? Especially if the ‘sudden influx of fatherly feelings’ theory is correct?

If Tommen orders him to leave, he doesn’t have many choices. He’s sworn to obey the king.

Here’s a possible and at least somewhat plausible scenario to explain Jaime’s exile to the Riverlands:

Jaime is so heartened by Myrcella’s acceptance that he is her biological father that he decides to spring the same news on Tommen, anticipating an equally positive reaction. Tommen, however, is more naive than Myrcella and never spotted the red flags about Jaime and Cersei’s relationship. The revelation shocks him deeply and outrages his newfound piety. He orders Jaime out of the city to keep him as far away as possible from his mother so that neither will be led into temptation.

Ser Creighton Longbough: I see him more as the tragic hero who saves the world but is severely injured (well, he already is…), like Frodo…

That’s my gut about Jon as well. He will lead the good guys to victory but take some sort of wound in the process – more likely psychological/emotional than physical – that can never heal even when peace/spring returns. Like Frodo after the Scouring of the Shire, he can never truly rest easy, and will have to seek the Westerosi equivalent of the Undying Lands.

It seems possible from these spoilers that the Kingsguard may become stacked with men who have joined the Faith Militant (and perhaps previous Kingsguard will have to become devout followers of the Faith as well). I suspect Jaime leaving might have more to do with that. That Jaime is with the Tyrells and not the rest of the Kingsguard seems like it could be a clue as to how/why he’s asked to leave the city by Tommen, and perhaps the Kingsguard altogether.

Jon’s experience as a bastard with the Night’s Watch and with the wildlings (both choose their leaders disregarding their birth rights) leads me to think that he would not seek the throne based on birth right alone (if he ever gets legitimized). I know he fantasized about been Lord of Winterfell, but his life experience has shown him different. Furthermore, his experience as a leader, having to make difficult and unpopular political decisions and getting stabbed for them, may refrain him from seeking the position altogether!

So I believe if he ends up in the throne is because he was chosen for it, and probably would take it as his duty, but not enjoy it.

Who knows. I think Dany may end up sitting the Throne but will have turned into as bigger tyrant as some of her predecessors. I can se eJon becoming the new Mance Rayder. Perhaps with the North and Wildngs breaking away from the rest of the Seven Kingdoms. I think some of the cornier suggestions made can be ruled out. Be very surprised if GRRM had Dany, Tyrion and Bran or whomever riding dragons to the wall to save everyone from White walkers. As Jon dukes it out with the Night King!

So would support Dany? Same argument that is used against Jon can be used against Danny. You think Tyrells with Margery now Queen would be okay with Danny coming in and spoiling that? Heck I can see Tyrells, the ever ambitious clan, aiming to marry off Marg to Jon if he is to be revealed a Targaryen (and if and when Lil Tommen bites the dust). Bottom line, we dont know. So anything George or the show reveal later down the line, it wont be such a shock or stretch of the imagination. The north backing up Jon as King of Westeros doesnt mean they would be doing it in lieu of supporting Sansa or Rickon as Wardens of the North…it just means they rather have a half stark than NO stark on the Iron Throne (sansa or rickon would have zero claim to the throne, so it would never be a Rickon/Sanan vs Jon issue).

I get that you dont see it that way, but having an opinion on the unknown motivation of characters doesnt make it a fact. I have zero clue of what could go down, Im just acknowledging that there is a possibility for many ways in which Jon could rule. Especially in this crazy world of backstabbing and twists. (Not that he would ever want to! lol)

Seriously? You interview one of the most sought after actors in the world and you SIT ON the interview since BEFORE season 5 ended??? That is just dumb and not even business savy smart. I would venture that this is a new interview ….. at least its done within the last few months… I highly doubt this interview took place more than a few months ago.. because any information regarding the show would possibly irrelevant.

I dunno… GRRM has said many times that he won’t end ASOIAF with the shining hero defeating all the evil and living happily ever after… He’s also said that the end of the story will be ‘bittersweet’ so… We’ll see!

Gwen Christie has shifted the dominant paradigm for women playing strong characters. Would love to see what she and Charlize Theron could do in a movie (and I was not thinking of “that” kind of movie). As for Harrington’s slip up, after giving the world a scare for several weeks, I am now officially relieved. Seriously, what production team would kill off such a significant character, oh yeah, we’re in the GOT universe, it could still be possible.