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Topic Review (Newest First)

01-21-2013 06:04 PM

AIRider

Agonising avalanche rescue caught on camera

I have two points I found were pretty stupid. No gloves, and no shovel handle? Otherwise, I thought it was a valid effort, the guy survived.

I think the trick here is to focus on how to recognize when to turn around and go find some other place to ride.

You guys keep debating technology designed to save your life when the most important thing is to not end up in that situation to begin with.

Yes, if you play the game long enough you will need these tools in one way or another. However, in those cases having anything is better than nothing.

Be smart. Be safe. Have fun!

Totally valid, and I think we've made that point. If I am out with anyone who says they think a slope is dangerous but they'll risk it because they have a beacon, airbag pack, avalung, whatever to save their ass. I am going quietly or not so quietly remove myself from that situation. Avoidance is the only guarantee.

01-14-2013 03:44 PM

killclimbz

Ah but you do own the gear wolfie. That is my point. 99% of the people who don't also haven't put the time into learning. There isn't an avalanche I out there worth taking that doesn't require you have the gear in some fashion.

I tour alone frequently in the winter. I still bring my basic gear regardless. If I get buried, yeah that is going to such and I'll probably die. At the very least when rescuer's come to find me, a transmitting beacon will make their job easier, exposing them to less danger. The more likely scenario is that I'll come upon a rescue situation where by having the gear I can assist.

01-13-2013 10:06 PM

binarypie

I think the trick here is to focus on how to recognize when to turn around and go find some other place to ride.

You guys keep debating technology designed to save your life when the most important thing is to not end up in that situation to begin with.

Yes, if you play the game long enough you will need these tools in one way or another. However, in those cases having anything is better than nothing.

Be smart. Be safe. Have fun!

01-13-2013 06:45 PM

linvillegorge

Yep, killclimbz is right, the air bag shredding incident I was thinking of was down in T-ride, not Tunnel Creek.

01-13-2013 09:46 AM

killclimbz

It was definitely the Telluride accident Linville is referring to. Airbags are great to have, but again, no guarantee. In fact sometimes it makes it worse because it keeps you on top of the snow pack. Being on top means that you can pick up more speed. A couple of people in Europe have been rocketed off of cliffs because of this.

I personally find this position is a bit too absolutist. There are plenty of back country opportunities available where this gear is totally unnecessary. We have plenty of very low angle trails, forest service roads and trail system that offer safe terrain for people to ski and ride without being exposed to risk.

The Tohama Hut system out of Ashford, Wa. near Mt. Rainer for example, is a great place for people to tour without danger whether it be snow shoers, Nordic, Tele or splitters. On Mt Hood above Tilly Jane on Cooper Spur, there are hundreds of square acres of gentle, rolling, safe, open and super fun terrain to ride that is low angle and has never seen an avalanche since the mountain formed. I personally like Mt. St. Helens because there is great riding opportunities there that remain safe even when the Black Rose rears its ugly head. One of my favorite area used to be Lolo Pass on the Idaho/Montana border on US 12. It is a high country plataue that gets a shit load of great snow and has endless opportunities for real wilderness back country travel without exposure to avalanche hazards.

All over the west, not to mention places in the UP of Michigan, there are unlimited Nordic trails that offer plenty of treed and low angle terrain to play on. Plenty of Nordic skiers go into wilderness areas on overnight trips without the need of this gear.

I ride back country solo all over the PNW as well as Alaska. This gear is of little use when solo and only an airbag and a PLB would be worthwhile for solo back country riding. The difference is in education so that the back country rider knows what is safe and what is potentially dangerous. Also it is a matter of self control and sticking to using good decision making and not allowing yourself to get sucked into powder fever and violate your personal minimums. Part of what I do is teach aspiring back country riders to use good decission making skills and be able to accurately judge what terrain is safe for them and what requires gear and further education.

If you don't have the gear, you are not ready for the backcountry.

You can make choices after the fact about if you need it or not. If you don't own this gear, then the fact is you don't know what is safe or not. I don't know anyone with training that doesn't have this gear. I stand by my statement.

Just point out to them that one of the skiers killed in the Tunnel Creek avalanche was wearing an airbag and deployed it correctly. The trees shredded it. They may protect you from a burial, but trauma might still get you.

Are you sure about this? The NY Times article only says Elyse had an airbag, and she was the survivor, which she believes was due to the airbag keeping her up. The other three died from trauma/asphyxiation.

01-12-2013 04:58 PM

huckfin

some of u people are unbelievable... unless you have saved someones life you are in no position to judge... pathetic

01-12-2013 04:26 PM

linvillegorge

Just point out to them that one of the skiers killed in the Tunnel Creek avalanche was wearing an airbag and deployed it correctly. The trees shredded it. They may protect you from a burial, but trauma might still get you.

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