quote:2. The Wall? It must be built, can we borrow money from Russia or Saudi Arabia to pay for it? They both have money and are allies to us. WHY NOT? Saudi could build some luxury resorts on OUR side of the wall as an incentive to them to help.

Sometimes I think you are totally oblivious to what your statements sound like to others!

First of all, we have a borrowing problem already, more is not the answer! Second of all, the two countries you named aren't exactly viewed in the best of light right now, so the US becoming more aligned, or indebted to those countries wouldn't go over well with just about everyone. Bad suggestion.

Nobody can escape what Trump said hundreds of times (or more?) that Mexico was going to pay for it. USMCA has no direct mechanism to pay for the wall as Trump is asserting, and it hasn't been passed yet. If Trump wants to try and make that case, he is not connecting the dots at all - because it would be impossible to actually show or prove where USMCA money (savings or taxes or whatever) are directly going towards the wall in the vein of Mexico paying for it.

I have long supported additional barriers and have a different idea on what or how more border security can be done than Trump does. So I never felt connected to his wall claim and never believed or understood how he could explain Mexico would pay for it. It worked at campaign rallies by someone who didn't expect to get elected. When the rubber meets the road it goes nowhere.

So all these attempts at how the wall can be funded in the shadow of Mexico is supposed to be paying for it easily falls on deaf ears and allows his opponents to continually ask "why isn't Mexico paying for it?"

Yes we do have a borrowing problem and since all we can do in regard to the debt we owe China is make payments on the interest, we need to look at other big financiers who could help. We cannot balance our budget at this time, everybody knows that. I just found out recently that there is no money in the social security trust fund, it is backed by US Treasury notes, but there is no gold or cash to back the fund up.

Saudi has tons of money. They help us out with oil, and in return we provide security for their country, doing major arms deals with them. We even overlooked the consensus that Prince Salman was allegedly involved in the murder of a US journalist. (Jamal Kashoggi) and they are strategic partners with us. There is no reason we could not secure 5 Billion from them.

As to Russia, we are on good footing with them. Others tried and still do, to taint the good-will relationship we have with them. Putin is a good, fair, moral man and would consider helping us out. They are a world power who has money, why can't we do a deal with them?

Indonesia also has tons of money, we need to look at nations that have money to invest, and get some from them.

If Mexico will not pay for it, then we need to look at other sources because most agree that the wall is needed for border security and national security.

[Edited on 1/6/2019 by gina]

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

quote:2. The Wall? It must be built, can we borrow money from Russia or Saudi Arabia to pay for it? They both have money and are allies to us. WHY NOT? Saudi could build some luxury resorts on OUR side of the wall as an incentive to them to help.

Sometimes I think you are totally oblivious to what your statements sound like to others!

First of all, we have a borrowing problem already, more is not the answer! Second of all, the two countries you named aren't exactly viewed in the best of light right now, so the US becoming more aligned, or indebted to those countries wouldn't go over well with just about everyone. Bad suggestion.

Nobody can escape what Trump said hundreds of times (or more?) that Mexico was going to pay for it. USMCA has no direct mechanism to pay for the wall as Trump is asserting, and it hasn't been passed yet. If Trump wants to try and make that case, he is not connecting the dots at all - because it would be impossible to actually show or prove where USMCA money (savings or taxes or whatever) are directly going towards the wall in the vein of Mexico paying for it.

I have long supported additional barriers and have a different idea on what or how more border security can be done than Trump does. So I never felt connected to his wall claim and never believed or understood how he could explain Mexico would pay for it. It worked at campaign rallies by someone who didn't expect to get elected. When the rubber meets the road it goes nowhere.

So all these attempts at how the wall can be funded in the shadow of Mexico is supposed to be paying for it easily falls on deaf ears and allows his opponents to continually ask "why isn't Mexico paying for it?"

Yes we do have a borrowing problem and since all we can do in regard to the debt we owe China is make payments on the interest, we need to look at other big financiers who could help. We cannot balance our budget at this time, everybody knows that. I just found out recently that there is no money in the social security trust fund, it is backed by US Treasury notes, but there is no gold or cash to back the fund up.

Saudi has tons of money. They help us out with oil, and in return we provide security for their country, doing major arms deals with them. We even overlooked the consensus that Prince Salman was allegedly involved in the murder of a US journalist. (Jamal Kashoggi) and they are strategic partners with us. There is no reason we could not secure 5 Billion from them.

As to Russia, we are on good footing with them. Others tried and still do, to taint the good-will relationship we have with them. Putin is a good, fair, moral man and would consider helping us out. They are a world power who has money, why can't we do a deal with them?

Indonesia also has tons of money, we need to look at nations that have money to invest, and get some from them.

If Mexico will not pay for it, then we need to look at other sources because most agree that the wall is needed for border security and national security.

“'We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked...'” Barrack Obama, 2005"

Obama's full quote at the time: "We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country."

"We all agree on the need to better secure the border and to punish employers who choose to hire illegal immigrants," Obama added. "We are a generous and welcoming people, here in the United States, but those who enter the country illegally, and those who employ them, disrespect the rule of law and they are showing disregard for those who are following the law."

Obama went on to advocate for imposing a "hefty fine" on those already in the country illegally, as well as tighter border security measures.

BTW – Obama has a wall around his mansion in DC.

Hillary supported border security:

At a campaign stop in November 2015, Clinton told a crowd: "I voted numerous times when I was a senator to spend money to build a barrier to try to prevent illegal immigrants from coming in. And I do think you have to control your borders."

Schumer supported border security:

Here's what he said in 2009:

"The first of these seven principles is that illegal immigration is wrong, plain and simple," Schumer said. "When we use phrases like 'undocumented workers,' we convey a message to the American people that their government is not serious about combating illegal immigration, which the American people overwhelmingly oppose."

"People who enter the United States without our permission are illegal aliens, and illegal aliens should not be treated the same as people who entered the United States legally," Schumer continued. "Any immigration solution must recognize that we must do as much as we can to gain operational control of our borders as soon as possible."

TMZ first reported in 2017 that the couple was building a fence-like wall and published photos showing what appeared to be the construction of a few brick columns. The project has since been completed.

Trump went to Camp David. It is believed that he will declare a National Emergency within days. Most of you who have been around here long enough know the powers a President has when a National Emergency is granted.

We are working hard at the Border, but we need a WALL! In 2018, 1.7 million pounds of narcotics seized, 17,000 adults arrested with criminal records, and 6000 gang members, including MS-13, apprehended. A big Human Trafficking problem.

Others have reported if there is a National Emergency and no budget deal, the food stamp cuts go into effect for February.

[Edited on 1/7/2019 by gina]

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

I've got an idea on a compromise to get the government open. How about Congress match the money we get from Mexico for the wall at a rate of $10 US taxpayer dollars for every peso Trump can get from Mexico using his incredible negotiation skills. Seems fair. All he has to do is get Mexico to pay for 1% of the wall. Surely a great negotiator can do that, right?

Wrong son. Obama never cared about border security, as evidenced by his failed policies. Prove this nonsensical statement with one quote, I dare you to find one, you can’t, haha, I win.

quote:“'We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States undetected, undocumented, unchecked...'” Barrack Obama, 2005"

Bullcrap. This is taken out of context. Nice try troll! Got the full quote genius? If you are trying to prove that Obama understood the significance of LEGAL entry, then prove it with a quote or buzz off!

quote:Obama's full quote at the time: "We simply cannot allow people to pour into the United States, undetected, undocumented, unchecked and circumventing the line of people who are waiting patiently, diligently and lawfully to become immigrants in this country."

When the President declares a national emergency, no powers or authorities made available by statute for use in the event of an emergency shall be exercised unless and until the President specifies the provisions of law under which he proposes that he, or other officers will act. Such specification may be made either in the declaration of a national emergency, or by one or more contemporaneous or subsequent Executive orders published in the Federal Register and transmitted to the Congress.

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

While the current emergency is the border and lack of adequate security, if we are already in a State of National Emergency and anything else happens, he is totally in charge of everything, and guess what, after those elections in Israel, when the Peace Plan is released, there may very well be more emergencies because Muslims in the Middle East will not be welcoming the building of a new temple on Temple Mount. It can lead to war.
I have been telling you about the times we are living in and that the times of the Tribulation are going to happen, that is one of the things that can cause the beginning of it. So yes the idea of creating a state of National Emergency is quite serious.

[Edited on 1/7/2019 by gina]

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

On February 16, 1962, President John Kennedy signed several Executive Orders which would allegedly give certain dictatorial powers to appointed bureaucrats in the event a "National Emergency" should be declared by the President — whichever president is sitting in office at the designated time. At the president's discretion "in any time of increased international tension or economic or financial crisis", the E.O.'s could theoretically be enacted.

These E.O.'s signed by Kennedy would give authority to the Federal Emergency Management Agency to control: communications, energy, food, fuel, farms, transportation, highways, railroads, inland waterways and seaports, health, education and welfare, drafts citizens into work forces under government supervision; relocation of populations, designates areas to be abandoned as 'unsafe'; relocates communities, and controls all public storage facilities.

On February 27, 1962 Kennedy signed E.O. 11051 designating FEMA as the authorized agency to implement the above orders, and which authority can be re-designated by the original authority. President Nixon signed E.O. 11490 combining all the above to be enacted in one fell swoop; on July 20, 1979 Carter added a few minor amendments to them; and, in June, 1994 then president Bill Clinton signed E.O. 12919, which appears to encompass all of the E.O.'s.

We have found no Executive Orders that would nullify any of the above, so it appears they are all considered to be on the books at the time of this posting.

Given there is no Constitutional authority for any president to declare a "National Emergency," we have wondered how the orchestraters of this plan expected to successfully execute the E.O.'s. The plan for total control of every aspect of our lives has been under construction for a long time. As you read these executive orders, bear in mind that they mean nothing by themselves. They are not law, nor can they become law by and of themselves.

However, under legislation that is currently pending in most (if not all) states, they could potentially take on significant meaning. The Emergency Health Powers legislation, pending in state capitols all across America — if passed — would give the governor the power to declare a state of health emergency by executive order. He then would be able to hand the reigns of power to whomever he chooses — including the state's emergency management agency, which could essentially act as an arm of the Federal Emergency Management Agency.

Apart from — and sometimes combined with — these Emergency Health Powers Acts are varying forms of "anti-terror" bills that are virtually redefining the words "terror," "terrorism," and "terrorist." States are busy right now, creating their own versions of the federal Office of Homeland Security. These state offices will oversee the process and details of the implementation of these orders. That is why it is so critical to get the legislation stopped in the states. For more information, or to read the bills we've compiled, go to the War on Americans is in the States section of this website.

Executive Order #10995: Seizure of all communications media in the United States.

Executive Order #10997: Seizure of all electric power fuels and minerals, public and private.

Executive Order #10999: Seizure of all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control of highways, seaports and waterways.

Executive Order #11000: Seizure of all American people for work forces under federal supervision including the splitting of families if the government finds it necessary.

Executive Order #11001: Seizure of all health, education and welfare facilities, public and private.

Executive Order #11002: Empowered the postmaster general to register all men, women and children in the U.S.

Executive Order #11003: Seizure of all airports and aircraft.

Executive Order #11004: Seizure of all housing and finance authorities to establish Forced Relocation Designated areas to be abandoned as "unsafe."

Executive Order #11005: Seizure of all railroads, inland waterways and storage facilities, public and private.

Executive Order #12919: Signs June 3, 1994, by President Clinton. Encompasses all the above executive orders.

[Edited on 1/7/2019 by gina]

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

When news came in recent days of the U.S. separating parents from children at the border and holding minors in a dedicated tent city in Texas, the phrase "concentration camp" began to appear in descriptions of the new facility.
Andrea Pitzer
@andreapitzer
Yes, of course they're concentration camps. They aren't the unique subset of death camps that were invented by the Nazis for genocide, or even Arctic Gulag camps built for hard labor. But they're camps created to punish a whole class of civilians via mass detention without trial.

REMARKS: "a whole class of civilians mass detention without trial".

What should be done with those who cross the border illegally is simply send them back, not detain anyone in a camp of any sort.

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

"Additionally, FM 3-39.40 discusses the critical issue of detainee rehabilitation. It describes the doctrinal
foundation, principles, and processes that military police and other elements will employ when dealing with I/R
populations. As part of internment, these populations include U.S. military prisoners, and multiple categories of
detainees (civilian internees [CIs], retained personnel [RP], and enemy "

REMARKS: these are the camps designed to hold prisoners and/or rowdy Americans in a time of national unrest, the ones for us are like giant prison camps, one way in and no way out. Sure they wrote it for prisoners from other countries, but do you think they would not use it in people here in a "national emergency" of civil unrest. They practiced those Jade Helm exercises specifically for that purpose.

For those who think it is just conspiracy theory, it is NOT.

President Regan signed Presidential Director Number 54 in April of 1984 that allowed FEMA to activate a secret national readiness exercise. This exercise was given the code name REX 84. The purpose of the exercise was to test FEMA's ability to assume military authority. REX 84 was so highly guarded that special metal doors were installed on the fifth floor of the FEMA building in Washington, D.C. The only people that were allowed to enter the premises were ones who had a red Christian cross on their shirt. The exercise required the following.....

Suspension of the Constitution of the United States

Turning control of the government over to FEMA

Appointment of military commanders to run state and local governments

Declaration of Martial Law

There over 600 prison camps in the United States, all fully operational and ready to receive prisoners. They are all staffed and even surrounded by full-time guards, but they are all empty. These camps are to be operated by FEMA (Federal Emergency Management Agency) should Martial Law need to be implemented in the United States.

The Rex 84 Program was established on the reasoning that if a mass exodus of illegal aliens crossed the Mexican/US border, they would be quickly rounded up and detained in detention lefts by FEMA. Rex 84 allowed many military bases to be closed down and to be turned into prisons. They can also be used for domestic disturbances, putting US citizens in there if massive civil unrest breaks out. The camps are already there.

Operation Cable Splicer and Garden Plot are the two sub programs which will be implemented once the Rex 84 program is initiated for its proper purpose. Garden Plot is the program to control the population. Cable Splicer is the program for an orderly takeover of the state and local governments by the federal government.

REMARKS: That's it, I am done for today and NO I am not saying Trump plans to put us in concentration camps, but I want you to be aware that these camps DO exist, and the Executive Orders granting him the power to do that in civil unrest exist. They existed under Obama, Bush, Clinton, and the others. All I am saying is be aware of prophecy, be aware of political things going on worldwide.

[Edited on 1/7/2019 by gina]

____________________"Mankind is a single nation" "Allah did not make you a single people so he could try you in what he gave you, to him you will all return, he will inform you where you differed". Quran Chapter 2 Sura 213

Let Trump throw his tantrums and declare emergency. It will satisfy his base, but create tensions within his own administration and among the military who will be executing the order. Let him serve his base until he’s gone if that’s what he wants. It will also alienate Republicans in Washington who are currently on his side. Keep it up Don!

Original Goober wrote: "The wall resistance is more of a liberal idea that a big scary wall will clash with the American concept living in a liberals head."

That is an emotional response rather than a factual one. Here are some facts:

1. Our own officials report that most drugs enter our country through our legal points of entry. Thus, a wall will not solve the problem.

2. Stats show that most illegal aliens are people who have overstayed their visas. Thus a wall will not solve the problem.

There are plenty of obvious other considerations:

Do you want to invoke Eminent Domain to take private citizens' land away as needed for the wall?
Have you considered the environmental impact presented by the wall?
Do you understand that all walls require expensive maintenance?
Are you aware of the ways that modern technology has allowed walls or other boundaries to be subverted? It was not too long ago that incredibly advanced tunnels from Mexico to the US were discovered, for example.

To say that "Anyone who does not want a wall does not want border security" is absurd; it is like saying "Anyone who does not own a horse and carriage does not want to travel." We live in 2019, and technology offers plenty of alternatives that would be more effective and less expensive.

Look at the stats for deportations under Obama. Clearly his administration was taking steps to combat the illegals' presence here. Meanwhile, we also know that there have been illegals working at Trump's places.

I know memes offer tidbits of info that are easy talking points, but plenty of people who do their homework know that a wall is not a panacea.

quote:Original Goober wrote: "The wall resistance is more of a liberal idea that a big scary wall will clash with the American concept living in a liberals head."

That is an emotional response rather than a factual one. Here are some facts:

1. Our own officials report that most drugs enter our country through our legal points of entry. Thus, a wall will not solve the problem.

2. Stats show that most illegal aliens are people who have overstayed their visas. Thus a wall will not solve the problem.

There are plenty of obvious other considerations:

Do you want to invoke Eminent Domain to take private citizens' land away as needed for the wall?
Have you considered the environmental impact presented by the wall?
Do you understand that all walls require expensive maintenance?
Are you aware of the ways that modern technology has allowed walls or other boundaries to be subverted? It was not too long ago that incredibly advanced tunnels from Mexico to the US were discovered, for example.

To say that "Anyone who does not want a wall does not want border security" is absurd; it is like saying "Anyone who does not own a horse and carriage does not want to travel." We live in 2019, and technology offers plenty of alternatives that would be more effective and less expensive.

Look at the stats for deportations under Obama. Clearly his administration was taking steps to combat the illegals' presence here. Meanwhile, we also know that there have been illegals working at Trump's places.

I know memes offer tidbits of info that are easy talking points, but plenty of people who do their homework know that a wall is not a panacea.

Hopefully my points of view will never be confused with Goobers, but since I support more wall, or fence, barrier, whatever on the Mexican border I'd like to respond since I assume he will not.

If just a portion of the drugs come across the border between legal points of entry, maybe 20%, that is still a portion that can be restricted or reduced. Thereby making them move more through legal ports, potentially increasing the chance of capture, or making it more difficult on the movement of the drugs to circumvent where the additional barrier is.

I agree, visa overstays is a very large contributor to the illegal immigration problem. Just because a wall doesn't address that, doesn't mean that a wall keeping other illegal aliens from crossing isn't needed also. FY2019 numbers for October and November show that Southern Border Patrol apprehensions were over 51,000 each month. A total of 396,579 were apprehended in FY2018. And how many do they catch, half?

That is a problem and a problem that needs addressed further. I am fine if we do that with additional personnel, detention facilities, technology and yes barriers. They all play a role. A wall should not be built across the entire border, a wall doesn't need build everywhere. But where physical barriers make sense, they should be built and they should be difficult for anyone to try and navigate over, through or under.

Tunnels? We eventually find tunnels. But an example that we have made it harder for them to come. They have to dig tunnels and the work and time it takes to do that. Good, harder for them, takes them longer that is good.

I do not have much concern about environmental impact of additional construction at the border.

Eminent Domain is an issue, but it will have to be dealt with just like any other state or federal project deals with it. There is a procedure.

Maintenance = a maintenance job for someone.

Modern tech is great, and advancing. I like it. It all can and should work together to achieve the ultimate end goal, reducing as many illegal border crossings as possible. It will never get to zero, where there is a will there is a way, but I surely would hope we can substantially cut it from the 50,xxx a month we have seen recently.

Illegal immigration is a national emergency. But the entire issue is the emergency. The VISA overstays, the lack or serious punishment for employers who hire, the lack of e-verity, the 11-22 million illegals that are here (Yale 2018 study said 22million, most have it lower), the identity theft, the financial burden of educating and medical costs.

I do not know if the President is going to declare a national emergency. What I do know, is that it should not be done just to build a wall, but this issue, overall, is indeed a national emergency.

quote:Illegal immigration is a national emergency. But the entire issue is the emergency. The VISA overstays, the lack or serious punishment for employers who hire, the lack of e-verity, the 11-22 million illegals that are here (Yale 2018 study said 22million, most have it lower), the identity theft, the financial burden of educating and medical costs.

I do not know if the President is going to declare a national emergency. What I do know, is that it should not be done just to build a wall, but this issue, overall, is indeed a national emergency.

Whether there is or isn't, the only thing being discussed IS a wall, so...

You mention holding Americans accountable, such as penalties for hiring illegals. Does that apply to employers, like, oh, Mar-A-Lago?

quote:Illegal immigration is a national emergency. But the entire issue is the emergency. The VISA overstays, the lack or serious punishment for employers who hire, the lack of e-verity, the 11-22 million illegals that are here (Yale 2018 study said 22million, most have it lower), the identity theft, the financial burden of educating and medical costs.

I do not know if the President is going to declare a national emergency. What I do know, is that it should not be done just to build a wall, but this issue, overall, is indeed a national emergency.

Whether there is or isn't, the only thing being discussed IS a wall, so...

You mention holding Americans accountable, such as penalties for hiring illegals. Does that apply to employers, like, oh, Mar-A-Lago?

I absolutely would support felony charges with mandatory jail time for repeat employers who hire illegal aliens without proper work visas.

I think national emergency is a bit much actually. It is a crisis. Lots of crisis around. If he declares a national emergency for wall construction I would not support that even though I do support devoting more resources to border security. The overall issue needs reformed, which is hard to see happening at this point.

I’m sorry, but if you speak to Latino immigrants, both legal and illegal, they laugh at the wall. Trump isn’t even trying to hide that the wall is a symbol, and not meant to actually keep out Mexicans. He said this! He actually admitted it, and people still want it. Crazy.

Trump will eventually build his wall, he’ll tweet out a spun statistic that supports his narrative, and all the Goober’s of the world will celebrate a “win” over the lefties, while in reality, illegal immigration hasn’t changed one bit. $5billion to help dysfunctional America “feel better”, rather than be given to veterans.

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