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Progress Defined- Playoffs Skips NYC Again

Originally, I was gona write a 5 page essay that pretty much said "I TOLD ALL OF YOU FOOLS MONTHS AGO!", but I figured its better to keep things chill and open up the floor to all fans (pro and anti- status quo).

Lets get it straight, I'm anti-status quo. I know theres been glimmers of hope, but simply said, I am not happy about this season.

At the end of the day, it comes to this:
The current Eastern Conf, is the worst in NBA History. Before the season even started, the Knicks were a lock to win 10-15 games more than last year- so there record doesnt mean a damn thing to me. To be 15 games under .500 in such a weak division is NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF!

Morale victories don't count in my book- maybe it does for some of you guys, but not me. My 94-99 era Knicks would be ashamed to be anything less than 10 games over .500, and you all should be to.

So if the goal this season was "significant progress"- then NO. I don't see enough to warrant any extension of the current status quo.

I'm not seduced enough by Eddy Curry and David Lee's development, Stephon playing well down the stretch, and anything else.

Face it, as fans, The Knicks have failed us. They have let us down for the 6th year in a row.

I work in the corporate world and know a thing or to about ROI. So if us as fans are looked upon as "customers"- then you have every right to feel that the product sold to you should be returned.
If you look at us fans as "investors"- then you have every right to feel that your product is a failure

This still seems like a negative rant but I'll some how respond to it...no one ever argued the fact that we weren't going to make it to the playoffs (at least not me). I believed we were going to make the playoffs since I'm a fan but at the end of the day I'm just as disappointed as any other fan. You said there isn't significant progress but you just stated all the progress which you ignore to just stay mad. Eddy Curry has stepped up tremendously...he should have gotten an all-ster spot but was rob for whatever reason. Marbury showed us starbury after everyone believed that he didn't have it anymore. Balkman and Lee have improved tremendously and we now know that Mardy can ball showing that Isiah has yet to prove me wrong about his talent-base skills. Team chemistry and bonding has also occured and in house turmoil has been held to a minimum. So face it...we did improve. You don't have to face the fact that we won more games this year than last year, you don't have to face the fact that this offseason will hopefully complete the holes on this roster so next year we can make a better run for the playoffs. I understand you're mad, but open your eyes...saying that we havent improved is like sayin we have Larry Brown as coach...

I dislike the way fans like starks say stuff with such a negative attitude towards the knicks. Go switch teams, maybe go like the Raptors, or the Heat or something, that way you can't tell us fools anything anymore. and on the plus side you can spend your time not writing a "5 Page Essay" and do other stuff the meets your daily goals, not pissing TRUE KNICK FANS OFF

Far far away from the orgy that consist of clyde, 8's, rady, smokes and rono

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Originally Posted by Starks

Originally, I was gona write a 5 page essay that pretty much said "I TOLD ALL OF YOU FOOLS MONTHS AGO!", but I figured its better to keep things chill and open up the floor to all fans (pro and anti- status quo).

Lets get it straight, I'm anti-status quo. I know theres been glimmers of hope, but simply said, I am not happy about this season.

At the end of the day, it comes to this:
The current Eastern Conf, is the worst in NBA History. Before the season even started, the Knicks were a lock to win 10-15 games more than last year- so there record doesnt mean a damn thing to me. To be 15 games under .500 in such a weak division is NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF!

Morale victories don't count in my book- maybe it does for some of you guys, but not me. My 94-99 era Knicks would be ashamed to be anything less than 10 games over .500, and you all should be to.

So if the goal this season was "significant progress"- then NO. I don't see enough to warrant any extension of the current status quo.

I'm not seduced enough by Eddy Curry and David Lee's development, Stephon playing well down the stretch, and anything else.

Face it, as fans, The Knicks have failed us. They have let us down for the 6th year in a row.

I work in the corporate world and know a thing or to about ROI. So if us as fans are looked upon as "customers"- then you have every right to feel that the product sold to you should be returned.
If you look at us fans as "investors"- then you have every right to feel that your product is a failure

So has Zeke showed us "Significant Progress"???? NOPE! We still suck

Well said, we need to stop using last season as an excuse. Other teams in the NBA have jumped ahead of us. We're still in the same position as we were last year, we're silghty improved, no question, but we're still one of the weakest teams in the league.

Most likely you be called a hater by the uneducated group in this forum or even they'll tell you to switch teams cause you don't buy into propogandas.

Honestly, in my opinion real fans get pissed off when their team have been sucking for half a decade. Thats what me and you are, pissed off fans who demand better quality basketball, and a promising future. We don't have either of those things right now with how things are looking.

Don't agrue with these kids though, they're totally bias, Isiah apologist and will most likely get emotional over the whole thing and throw insults at you if you don't buy into the Dolan/Isiah propoganda.

All I want to do is be a playoff contender. Sorry if I'm not starry eyed over "progress". If this organization was run by anyone other than Dolan, im pretty sure a 6 year mediocre streak would be grounds for people gettign fired. = ) (I challange you to find me one positive sports article about this season- im not the only one thats pissed)

Originally, I was gona write a 5 page essay that pretty much said "I TOLD ALL OF YOU FOOLS MONTHS AGO!", but I figured its better to keep things chill and open up the floor to all fans (pro and anti- status quo).

Lets get it straight, I'm anti-status quo. I know theres been glimmers of hope, but simply said, I am not happy about this season.

At the end of the day, it comes to this:
The current Eastern Conf, is the worst in NBA History. Before the season even started, the Knicks were a lock to win 10-15 games more than last year- so there record doesnt mean a damn thing to me. To be 15 games under .500 in such a weak division is NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF!

Morale victories don't count in my book- maybe it does for some of you guys, but not me. My 94-99 era Knicks would be ashamed to be anything less than 10 games over .500, and you all should be to.

So if the goal this season was "significant progress"- then NO. I don't see enough to warrant any extension of the current status quo.

I'm not seduced enough by Eddy Curry and David Lee's development, Stephon playing well down the stretch, and anything else.

Face it, as fans, The Knicks have failed us. They have let us down for the 6th year in a row.

I work in the corporate world and know a thing or to about ROI. So if us as fans are looked upon as "customers"- then you have every right to feel that the product sold to you should be returned.
If you look at us fans as "investors"- then you have every right to feel that your product is a failure

So has Zeke showed us "Significant Progress"???? NOPE! We still suck

Your post is pretty much right on the money. Comparing last year with this year and saying, oh we won more games and saying thats improvement is a cop out.

The knicks are still under .500 and we again miss the playoffs. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm sick of seeing the knicks go from failure to mediocre and people thinking thats "significant progress". To me REAL progress means at least playing above .500 even if we miss the playoffs.

Originally, I was gona write a 5 page essay that pretty much said "I TOLD ALL OF YOU FOOLS MONTHS AGO!", but I figured its better to keep things chill and open up the floor to all fans (pro and anti- status quo).

Lets get it straight, I'm anti-status quo. I know theres been glimmers of hope, but simply said, I am not happy about this season.

At the end of the day, it comes to this:
The current Eastern Conf, is the worst in NBA History. Before the season even started, the Knicks were a lock to win 10-15 games more than last year- so there record doesnt mean a damn thing to me. To be 15 games under .500 in such a weak division is NOTHING, I REPEAT NOTHING TO BE PROUD OF!

Morale victories don't count in my book- maybe it does for some of you guys, but not me. My 94-99 era Knicks would be ashamed to be anything less than 10 games over .500, and you all should be to.

So if the goal this season was "significant progress"- then NO. I don't see enough to warrant any extension of the current status quo.

I'm not seduced enough by Eddy Curry and David Lee's development, Stephon playing well down the stretch, and anything else.

Face it, as fans, The Knicks have failed us. They have let us down for the 6th year in a row.

I work in the corporate world and know a thing or to about ROI. So if us as fans are looked upon as "customers"- then you have every right to feel that the product sold to you should be returned.
If you look at us fans as "investors"- then you have every right to feel that your product is a failure

I dislike the way fans like starks say stuff with such a negative attitude towards the knicks. Go switch teams, maybe go like the Raptors, or the Heat or sometime, that way you can't tell us fools anything anymore. and on the plus side you can spend your time not writing a "5 Page Essay" and do other stuff the meets your daily goals, not pissing TRUE KNICK FANS OFF

What makes you a true fan? I would really love to know what makes you a true fan. A true fan is a fan who actually knows the game and realizes just how flawed of a team we are. YOu seriously gotta grow up dude. If your on this website posting your a true fan. Following tthe team blindly despite the fact we've been god awful for 6 years now and making up excuses for everything except point out the obvious.. WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN.

People call Metro card the worst poster, but you deffinately are the worst in my book. You think up stupid trades that would never happen and just don't know the game.

What makes you a true fan? I would really love to know what makes you a true fan. A true fan is a fan who actually knows the game and realizes just how flawed of a team we are. YOu seriously gotta grow up dude. If your on this website posting your a true fan. Following tthe team blindly despite the fact we've been god awful for 6 years now and making up excuses for everything except point out the obvious.. WERE NOT GOOD ENOUGH TO WIN.

People call Metro card the worst poster, but you deffinately are the worst in my book. You think up stupid trades that would never happen and just don't know the game.

I feel the same way about you. I think your a dumbass, and Metrocard is a god in comparison to you. NEVER EVER tell me that I dont know this game! You always had a bad attitude towards me anyway, the day I entered the forum, You made a stupid remark that I'm not a Fan at the age of 10 or 9 when the Knicks were at the 1999 PLayoffs.want the link? You are the hater. I think rady should kick you out.
What makes you a TRUE FAN?

Originally Posted by GetRealistic

I don't want to be labeled a hater for this comment, but weren't you like 9 years old back then.

A addition to you, You are stuck up, Your name GetRealistic sounds like your stuck up, You act like you know everything about everything, and you never post your ideas about the knicks just you post about people and the wrong ideas that they have. I admit that I do over do the trades, I officially can't be a GM. But you should spit out your fantasic ideas.

What makes me a true fan
1. Going to the game to support my team
2. Wearing the colors Orange and Blue most of the time
3. Thinking of the team a lot of the time
4. Reading what fans have to say about the knicks
5. (Trying to understand other fans like you)When I spoke to Nate Robinson he too said He doesn't like the fans complaining every time. "Fans are fans they should treat each other well"
6. Buying Knicks stuff
7. Being a Proud fan and having something to look forward too when I know there's going to be a game on the next day.

Well said, we need to stop using last season as an excuse. Other teams in the NBA have jumped ahead of us. We're still in the same position as we were last year, we're silghty improved, no question, but we're still one of the weakest teams in the league.

Most likely you be called a hater by the uneducated group in this forum or even they'll tell you to switch teams cause you don't buy into propogandas.

Honestly, in my opinion real fans get pissed off when their team have been sucking for half a decade. Thats what me and you are, pissed off fans who demand better quality basketball, and a promising future. We don't have either of those things right now with how things are looking.

Don't agrue with these kids though, they're totally bias, Isiah apologist and will most likely get emotional over the whole thing and throw insults at you if you don't buy into the Dolan/Isiah propoganda.

I have to say that I agree with most of the things being said... however... I'm not mad... despite my frustrations with the knicks (Herb had more wins than Lenny Wilkens, Larry Brown, Don Channey and Isiah)... let's look at the positives and negatives from this season...

<b>POSITIVE</b>
1. Team chemistry and spirit:
Say what you will about Isiah... but he stood tall with his team... never excusing himself for their losses and passing it onto his players... remember LB was a morale killer... he always talked as if he didn't respect his players in the media... it's easier to compete for someone when you know they have your back...

2. Hustle and intensity:
Since the fight... the knicks have played with a sense of urgency most nights (albeit they're usually down 20 before they start playing hard)

3. Eddy Curry, David Lee, Mardy Collins, Nate Robinson, Channing Frye, Renaldo Balkman and Jamal Crawford:
these guys all (cept collins and balkman) toiled under LB and were criticized at every turn... they also never fought back or criticized the coach publicly... this season... they proved to be key links in the knicks' championship chain...

Balkman and collins continue to provide evidence that Isiah is perhaps the best late round draft scout in the league...

4. Steph:
say what you will about his stubbornness... not buying into the inside-out approach at first... poor defense early in the season... he stepped it up as the team progressed... playing hobbled most of the year... he even stepped up his defense... often guarding the opposition's key players (kobe, joe johnson, etc) when the knicks needed a key defensive stop...

5. Randolph Morris 6'11, 260, 21 yrs.:
Singing this kid at the end of his tourney run was a brilliant coup by Isiah and Co... former HS teammate of Josh Smith and Dwight Howard... played a couple years at Kentucky... if he works with Aguire and Herb like they work with Curry... we could be looking at the genesis of a very dominant post tandem for years to come...

<b>NEGATIVE</b>
1. A penchant for snatching defeat from the jaws of victory:
say what you will about injuries... Isiah or talent... losses to the 76ers, Bobcats, Celtics, Heat (without shaq or dwade), lakers (sans Kobe), Hawks, Warriors, Grizzles, Sonics (without Ray Allen) are inexcusable... winning these games would have put us in the playoffs... we gave away too many games on way too many nights...

3. Mike Sweetney, Tim Thomas, Tyrus Thomas and The 23 draft pick:
as much as I wanted the knicks to make the playoffs this year to see how they performed... I really wanted us to swap a non-lottery pick with the bulls... now... curry could have potentially cost us the number 2 and number 1 draft picks in consecutive years... our consolation... someone at 23 (the bulls pick) who will no doubt be good... but probably not as good as the number 1 or 2...

4. The lack of accountability at MSG:
it seems like every time the knicks lost... isiah... dolan... the players... and the talking heads at MSG find something outside the team to blame it on... neglecting the fact that lackluster play is usaully a recipe for defeat...

5. .715:
this number is our free throw percentage... 5 worst in the league... supprisingly enough... all the teams that shoot worse than us... warriors, magic, cavs, heat... still have shots at the playoffs...

6. Curry's rebounding, defense, turnovers and dependance on Crawford:
love him... but the holes in his game became even more apparent when his best friend went down...

7. Q-Rich's back:
Isiah knew he needed surgery when we traded away kurt thomas for him... good player that i like a lot... but he's hurt too often to be a real building block for this team... it makes me more upset that this could have been avoided... since Iso knew about this coming in...

Looking at these lists... you can obviously see that there were more negatives than positives this season... but you have to be excited about the possibilities for the future... a few offseason tweaks... an athletic, defensive 3 (Gerald Wallace)... a defensive presence to back up (or play alongside) Curry (maybe Morris will develop into this next year or the year after)...

As a fan... it's my duty to look at the big picture... AND barring any management buffoonery (like I dunno trading Marbury for someone with a longer contract or swapping away our next 7 draft picks for Monta Ellis)... then we can be respectable as soon as next year... with the right moves... they could be serious contenders in 5 years or less...

Originally, I was gona write a 5 page essay that pretty much said "I TOLD ALL OF YOU FOOLS MONTHS AGO!", but I figured its better to keep things chill and open up the floor to all fans (pro and anti- status quo).

Morale victories don't count in my book- maybe it does for some of you guys, but not me. My 94-99 era Knicks would be ashamed to be anything less than 10 games over .500, and you all should be to.

As a real fan since 91... I can tell you that the 94 - 99 era Knicks were also underachievers... say what you will about Jordan being in the way or any of the other excuses Ewing apologists use... the expectations of that era were championship... we were up 3 - 2 in 94 and LOST the championship... our title hopes rimmed out in 95 on a Ewing finger roll... 96 - 98 were our years to be witnesses again... and in 99 we got a lot of lucky breaks... Ewing's injury forced Van Gundy to be imaginative (thereby increasing the playing time of Camby, increasing the role of Sprewell, LJ and Houston)... Houston's shot against the Heat... LJ's phantom 4 point play...

I say this not to diminish the good (and great) things these teams accomplished... but to be upset that a rebuilding, injury riddled, poorly managed team is out of the playoffs is nonsense... especially considering the expectations coming into this year...

you're in the business world... one measure of success is expections versus outcome... 94 - 99 we expected a title and the outcome was heartache and disappointment (only 2 finals appearances with arguably the best team in the conference for a large chunk of the decade)... this year... we expected improvement and got somewhat of a mess...

this franchise has been f***ing shyte up since 85 (the B. King trade) let's not act like this groups failure is any worse that the 34 years of disappointment we've endured since our last title...

This is a good post. The point of view is negative but that's the opinion of the writer. It's subjective and can't really be argued. You ether agree or disagree. I agree with some points. What it really all comes down to is that progress in the eyes of many fans is not measurable or significant unless the Knicks make the play offs. I don't agree with that point of view. Regardless of where you or I would like the team to be, we can all see there has been measurable progress from many players. There's been growth and development. The names have already been mentioned. Curry, Marbury, Baulkman, Lee, ext. Although I am unhappy that we didn't make the play offs, I'm not mad about it. I really didn't expect us to make the play offs when Lee, Crawford and Richardson when out with injuries. Had they all been health and we failed to make it to the next level my opinion would be different.

Last point: I pose this question to all Knicks fans. Name one team that came back from a historic failed season to make the play offs in a single year.