Another anti-gunner shows their stuff

a reply to: visitedbythem
To try and defend something as horrible as rape, is not possible. If building an 18 billion dollar wall will make a difference, sure I'm all for it.
But to think that will solve the problem is simply being unrealistic.

Do you really think building an 18 billion wall will make any different?

I don't think it will have as big of an impact as many are hoping, that is for sure. I think it will make a better deterrent as much as anything else,
since walls can of course be scaled/tunneled under and we can't physically occupy the entire border. I get that, I truly do. But we have to do
something, border security is so important to national security. All of our invasive spying programs (which I personally detest) are useless if we
don't know at least know who is in the country. Terrorists, spies and other bad-actors absolutely abuse our weakness along certain points on the
border.

And this is coming from someone who has no desire to see current illegal immigrants deported. Unless they've committed a significant crime/known gang
affiliations, I have no issue with fining them for something like trespassing (let them pay their "debt") and providing a path to citizenship.
Probably about as much of a progressive stance anyone can get from the right

Do you have a better idea? At least Trump is making an effort to protect the border and enforce our laws. If we start ignoring laws (which is why I
emphasize "paying the debt"), we risk the legitimacy of our entire federal judicial system. Sadly, past administrations (not just Obama) has screwed
this whole situation up so bad that virtually any other action is going to be very expensive - both in terms of financial costs, and human
costs.

The fact he was picked up on federal gun charges is a plus, but he still got away with murder thanks to his millennial jury. Their blind hatred of
guns and Republicans caused them to let this murderer go. Yet they were crying about the hunter who accidentally shot his neighbor, calling for first
degree murder charges.

originally posted by: hoss53
reply to: visitedbythem
How? Are they going to quit trying to get to a better life?

They wont be able to lead them across the desert and rape them on the way for one thing.
You better ask someone!

Listen, I'm all for gun rights and immigration control, and even support some of Trump's stance on that and deportation, but this "argument" of yours
has but a ball in the bucket the other way for me.

If these women are willing to be raped (or even just risk being raped) to come here, it must be pretty da**ed awful whatever they are running away
from. There comes a point where society deteriorates so much that rape is just part of the fabric of it.

Also, a wall is a stupid, wasteful idea that is only appealing the psychology of Trump's base. It won't actually help all that much. I suppose a Big
Beautiful Wall is more fun than the alternatives that would actually work though. Just silly.

a reply to: Nickn3
2000 mile border wall. Sounds great. We are 100% sure all criminals come from Mexico. Put up the wall and crime will be cut in half in the U.S. I
have some ocean front property I'd like to sell you in Arizona.

you make some good points, just one problem. you seem to not understand Illegal is Illegal. if people want to come here there are legal ways. i
have done some illegal things in the past, went to jail paid fines that part of my life is in the past. i am 100% against illegal immagration. those
illegals you refer to are not let in they sneak in. illegal is illegal is illegal wake up. why should the illegals be given a damn thing when people
go the "LEGAL" way all the time. now, if they want to leave come back through the proper channels, im all for that. but illegal needs to pay, as i a
citizen had to pay for my illegal activites in the past. i mean, i want my 3 years and 6 grand back if illegal isnt illegal anymore.

Do you really think building an 18 billion wall will make any different?

The estimated cost on the American public for harboring illegal immigrants each year is estimated to be $113 billion. If the completion of the wall
decreases that by half then we are saving a fortune in the ongoing cost to combat illegal immigration.

Yes, of course, it will make a difference. The more difficult it is to enter into the US the less likely illegals are to come. It's pretty simple
reasoning. No one thinks the completion of the wall is going to entirely stop illegal immigration but it will dramatically impact the number of
illegals coming across the border.

We cannot continue to spend this level of money on people who enter our country illegally year after year.

Why is the left so opposed to doing things legally? Oh wait...never mind.

You have to be a special kind of brain dead to believe a wall is going to make a difference.

I don't agree with banning guns either, I believe it is the person and not the weapon which is exactly why I believe background checks should be
mandatory because right now any psycho can easily get a gun at a show without any problem and a lot of the time cheaper than off the street. And be
honest, who's going to go through the trouble of doing it illegally when the legal way is far simpler and easier?

This is false tho. They do the same kind of electronic backgrounds as any other firearms dealer, gun show or not. The gun show loop hole is false.
Some states allow private transfer without, however at gun shows you do. If someone buys a firearm for anyone at a dealership store or gun show for
someone who will not pass a background check is straw purchase and is illegal.

The argument that this is an equal argument is still in accurate. One is a right, and the other is still a violation of law. It is not immigration, it
is a crime, while purchasing a firearm is not.

You didn't read my whole post apparently because you'd see that I addressed everything you are talking about here. If someone is caught here illegally
then they should be punished for breaking the law, I've never said otherwise.

originally posted by: hoss53
a reply to: Nickn3
2000 mile border wall. Sounds great. We are 100% sure all criminals come from Mexico. Put up the wall and crime will be cut in half in the U.S. I
have some ocean front property I'd like to sell you in Arizona.

It would be good for the economy, the government gets the money back it taxes. We get a wall just like Berlin in the 60's. In about 20 years we can
"tear down that wall", and get paid again. Win, win, and win for everyone.

I am not really for the wall, or new laws, I would like to see the laws on the books enforced, or deleted. It's time to use a little common sense.

I would like to use a few of the laws on the books and put the Clinton's in jail. I think it's past time.

Presently US Border Protection is about 7000 employees under congressional mandate. They lose more than twice what they gain, man power wise, to
agencies that pay higher/public sector (which pay much higher). This money could be used to pay Border Protection officers what they deserve, and lead
to a higher retention/application rate.

originally posted by: hoss53
a reply to: Outlier13 So you don't think the 18 billion couldn't be better spent on caner research or p.t.s.d. help for our
veterans?

18 billion for national security, then use the 113 billion for what you listed would be better. That is unless you think spending increasing amounts
of money on criminals is a better utilization of money.

I had a feeling someone would recognize the site/poster eventually, and I would like to point out that I have nothing respect for his opinion and
appreciation for enabling the discussion of this topic. I certainly understand playing devil's advocate and using straw-men/extreme examples to make a
specific point more visible/comprehendible. I am surprised to learn he is not an anti-gunner, but I would be willing to bet it isn't the first time I
read someone wrong

Some of his proposals (minus banning certain weapons) are actually widely popular in the firearms community, several of which I personally support
myself

I don't agree with letting just anyone into the country because having two cultures clashing usually doesn't end up very well, but if they take
all the measures to integrate into the home society then they should be allowed in. Any who are caught breaking our laws should be dealt justice in
accordance to the law so I'm not a supporter of letting illegal immigrants in.

Agreed, I too welcome those with open arms who want to become Americans and be our friends and neighbors. I do not support illegal immigration either,
but I do not personally believe deportation of the existing millions for several reasons (mostly practicality/financial constraints/"bigger fish to
fry") is necessary but there is no doubt it hurts the rule of law and costs us billions of dollars per year

You're being obtuse in your thinking. If we do not dramatically stem the flow of illegal immigration into the US the financial burden of supporting
these illegals will eliminate any possibility of funding not only those important topics but many more.

Look at it this way. How many poor families in your local neighborhood could you afford to support for an extended period of time before their needs
dripped you dry of your personal finances.

At some point you can no longer support them let alone your own family. It's no different at the macro level relative to people coming into the US
illegally. Californians pay $23 billion a year to support illegal immigrant families. How long do you think that's going to last?

Do you really think building an 18 billion wall will make any different?

The estimated cost on the American public for harboring illegal immigrants each year is estimated to be $113 billion. If the completion of the wall
decreases that by half then we are saving a fortune in the ongoing cost to combat illegal immigration.

Yes, of course, it will make a difference. The more difficult it is to enter into the US the less likely illegals are to come. It's pretty simple
reasoning. No one thinks the completion of the wall is going to entirely stop illegal immigration but it will dramatically impact the number of
illegals coming across the border.

We cannot continue to spend this level of money on people who enter our country illegally year after year.

Why is the left so opposed to doing things legally? Oh wait...never mind.

You have to be a special kind of brain dead to believe a wall is going to make a difference.

Lol...yet another stellar argumentative post by a liberal. No wonder you guys lose so much.

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