It started in soccer, spread to hockey, is now rampant throughout basketball...and I've now seen evidence of it in football. The PI call on Butler was a bad call, but, to be fair, it was, by the rulebook, the correct call (think tuck-rule Pats fans, it was how the rule is written). However, I know his name is Garcon, but does he need to play like a frenchy little b!tch? Go to the BALL! He seriously threw his body into the defender to get the call, the biggest effing POOSY move I've seen on a football field since that hippo-thug Haynesworthless stepped on a helmet-less player's face on purpose. I hate flopping in basketball, and that has led to me pretty much not caring about the sport because you have people playing like poosies instead of playing the game. Garcon is a proven, undeniable b!tch for making a play like that. No, it wasn't a "veteran" play like Collinsworth tried to say. Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Al Toon, Michael Irvin, Sterling Sharpe...anyone at any time, no good or even decent player in HISTORY has EVER tried to pull such a cowardly move that I'm aware of. I've never seen something like that on a football field. If I play defense, ok, that's within the rules, so is me going for you knee on every tackle, shoving you into the bench every time down the sideline, using your head to push myself up from the ground, and I'm gladly going to take a 15 yarder and LAY YOU THE EFF OUT when I get my first chance over the middle.

It started in soccer, spread to hockey, is now rampant throughout basketball...and I've now seen evidence of it in football. The PI call on Butler was a bad call, but, to be fair, it was, by the rulebook, the correct call (think tuck-rule Pats fans, it was how the rule is written). However, I know his name is Garcon, but does he need to play like a frenchy little b!tch? Go to the BALL! He seriously threw his body into the defender to get the call, the biggest effing POOSY move I've seen on a football field since that hippo-thug Haynesworthless stepped on a helmet-less player's face on purpose. I hate flopping in basketball, and that has led to me pretty much not caring about the sport because you have people playing like poosies instead of playing the game. Garcon is a proven, undeniable b!tch for making a play like that. No, it wasn't a "veteran" play like Collinsworth tried to say. Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Al Toon, Michael Irvin, Sterling Sharpe...anyone at any time, no good or even decent player in HISTORY has EVER tried to pull such a cowardly move that I'm aware of. I've never seen something like that on a football field. If I play defense, ok, that's within the rules, so is me going for you knee on every tackle, shoving you into the bench every time down the sideline, using your head to push myself up from the ground, and I'm gladly going to take a 15 yarder and LAY YOU THE EFF OUT when I get my first chance over the middle.Posted by ma6dragon9

you may owe "frenchie" an apology. i believe on the play in question, the player we #17 and not Garcon... Double-check...

You may be right about that, if he was not the player in question, disregard the frenchie comments, and apply everything else to the player in question. I've been trying to find the play on youtube with no luck just to check that.

You may be right about that, if he was not the player in question, disregard the frenchie comments, and apply everything else to the player in question. I've been trying to find the play on youtube with no luck just to check that.Posted by ma6dragon9

It started in soccer, spread to hockey, is now rampant throughout basketball...and I've now seen evidence of it in football. The PI call on Butler was a bad call, but, to be fair, it was, by the rulebook, the correct call (think tuck-rule Pats fans, it was how the rule is written). However, I know his name is Garcon, but does he need to play like a frenchy little b!tch? Go to the BALL! He seriously threw his body into the defender to get the call, the biggest effing POOSY move I've seen on a football field since that hippo-thug Haynesworthless stepped on a helmet-less player's face on purpose. I hate flopping in basketball, and that has led to me pretty much not caring about the sport because you have people playing like poosies instead of playing the game. Garcon is a proven, undeniable b!tch for making a play like that. No, it wasn't a "veteran" play like Collinsworth tried to say. Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Al Toon, Michael Irvin, Sterling Sharpe...anyone at any time, no good or even decent player in HISTORY has EVER tried to pull such a cowardly move that I'm aware of. I've never seen something like that on a football field. If I play defense, ok, that's within the rules, so is me going for you knee on every tackle, shoving you into the bench every time down the sideline, using your head to push myself up from the ground, and I'm gladly going to take a 15 yarder and LAY YOU THE EFF OUT when I get my first chance over the middle.Posted by ma6dragon9

Is your rant just a really long run on sentance that happens to have puncuation thrown in for kicks? You don't even have your facts straight.

It started in soccer, spread to hockey, is now rampant throughout basketball...and I've now seen evidence of it in football. The PI call on Butler was a bad call, but, to be fair, it was, by the rulebook, the correct call (think tuck-rule Pats fans, it was how the rule is written). However, I know his name is Garcon, but does he need to play like a frenchy little b!tch? Go to the BALL! He seriously threw his body into the defender to get the call, the biggest effing POOSY move I've seen on a football field since that hippo-thug Haynesworthless stepped on a helmet-less player's face on purpose. I hate flopping in basketball, and that has led to me pretty much not caring about the sport because you have people playing like poosies instead of playing the game. Garcon is a proven, undeniable b!tch for making a play like that. No, it wasn't a "veteran" play like Collinsworth tried to say. Jerry Rice, Cris Carter, Al Toon, Michael Irvin, Sterling Sharpe...anyone at any time, no good or even decent player in HISTORY has EVER tried to pull such a cowardly move that I'm aware of. I've never seen something like that on a football field. If I play defense, ok, that's within the rules, so is me going for you knee on every tackle, shoving you into the bench every time down the sideline, using your head to push myself up from the ground, and I'm gladly going to take a 15 yarder and LAY YOU THE EFF OUT when I get my first chance over the middle.Posted by ma6dragon9

Well, it was by the rulebook, but in the wrong direction. An example of what is NOT PI is given as incidental contact when both players are playing the ball. This fell under that.

In Response to Flopping in FOOTBALL NOW!!!! : Is your rant just a really long run on sentance that happens to have puncuation thrown in for kicks? You don't even have your facts straight.Posted by MarcW1

I don't even know what your point is. Did you just want to post on the internet for kicks? And yes, I got one thing wrong...wow. Sorry Mr. Perfect. Oh, and I admitted my potential error before you came along. thank for the input though! Effing doosh.

As far as it not being pass interference? From the NFL Rulebook:

"Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to:

(b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball."

Do you rose-colored glasses wearing jerks understand now? though I OBVIOUSLY think it was a bush league play, it WAS CALLED CORRECTLY. If you're going to try and call someone out, or worse yet NITPICK, at least KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Wow, hypoctritical AND ignorant! Impressive combination, you're a real winner.

In Response to Re: Flopping in FOOTBALL NOW!!!! : I don't even know what your point is. Did you just want to post on the internet for kicks? And yes, I got one thing wrong...wow. Sorry Mr. Perfect. Oh, and I admitted my potential error before you came along. thank for the input though! Effing doosh. As far as it not being pass interference? From the NFL Rulebook: "Actions that constitute defensive pass interference include but are not limited to: (b) Playing through the back of a receiver in an attempt to make a play on the ball." Do you rose-colored glasses wearing jerks understand now? though I OBVIOUSLY think it was a bush league play, it WAS CALLED CORRECTLY. If you're going to try and call someone out, or worse yet NITPICK, at least KNOW WHAT THE HELL YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. Wow, hypoctritical AND ignorant! Impressive combination, you're a real winner.Posted by ma6dragon9

Damn...3-4 days after the game? What, did you wait for the rush of posts to expire so you and everyone else could see your name in print like you accused someone else of doing?Dude, you SERIOUSLY need to get laid...you'll live longer rather than put everyone down.

Well, at least a Pat fan finally admitted that this was PI according to the rules, rather than calling it a "phantom" or "bogus" call. However, this was definitely not a flop. The replay shows that Collie had to slow down considerably to catch the ball (since it wasn't thrown quite far enough) and that Butler consequently ran into Collie fairly forcebly. The ball still hit him in the hands, and he should have had the catch IMHO. Whether it was PI - I think so. I don't think you can call that degree of contact "incidental" - it clearly threw Collie forceably forward. Looking back for the ball doesn't excuse the act of knocking the receiver down as far as PI goes. I think that's at least a 50-50 call, and I guarantee that if that was a Pat receiver and a Colt DB you would all have been outraged if there was no PI call...

I know that Collinsworth made some reference to Collie jumping back into Butler, but that's not what the replay shows. Collie merely had to slow down for the ball, and Butler kept running full bore and ran into him. And when you knock a receiver down, it's hard to call it incidental. Enoch was quoting the rulebook where it indicates that incidental contact is not considered PI. But his passage never defined "incidental". Websters says:

1 a: being likely to ensue as a chance or minor consequence <social obligations incidental to the job>b:minor2: occurring merely by chance or without intention or calculation

If you're assuming definition 1b, I don't think you could argue this was incidental contact as Collie was knocked down. If you're assuming definition 2, I buy that it was unintentional. There certainly have been other NFL rules in which the refs have to interpret intention, but I've always taken the Incidental Contact rule to mean contact that doesn't affect the play. This is the NFL's way of preventing the type of "touch fouls" we see in the NBA. Like I say, close call but I don't see how you could call that contact incidental...

BTW - I hate flopping and also consider it to be an all-time poosy move. As a rugby player, I can't believe anyone would fake to be hurt just to get a penalty as the floppers typically do...

I know that Collinsworth made some reference to Collie jumping back into Butler, but that's not what the replay shows. Collie merely had to slow down for the ball, and Butler kept running full bore and ran into him. And when you knock a receiver down, it's hard to call it incidental. Enoch was quoting the rulebook where it indicates that incidental contact is not considered PI. But his passage never defined "incidental". Websters says: 1 a : being likely to ensue as a chance or minor consequence <social obligations incidental to the job /> b : minor 2 : occurring merely by chance or without intention or calculation If you're assuming definition 1b, I don't think you could argue this was incidental contact as Collie was knocked down. If you're assuming definition 2, I buy that it was unintentional. There certainly have been other NFL rules in which the refs have to interpret intention, but I've always taken the Incidental Contact rule to mean contact that doesn't affect the play. This is the NFL's way of preventing the type of "touch fouls" we see in the NBA. Like I say, close call but I don't see how you could call that contact incidental... BTW - I hate flopping and also consider it to be an all-time poosy move. As a rugby player, I can't believe anyone would fake to be hurt just to get a penalty as the floppers typically do...Posted by JulesWinfield

First off, Collie got BOTH HANDS ON THE BALL. AND DROPPED IT.

The hit was to remove the football. Butler was PLAYING THE FOOTBALL. Butler WENT FOR THE FOOTBALL.

My concept of the SPIRIT of the interference rule is that the defender can't play the receiver simply to prevent the receiver from getting to the ball. In this case, the receiver got to the ball and got both hands on it. Furthermore, Butler didn't push Collie prior to the ball hitting Collie in the hands. Butler didn't grab Collie, or hold his arms down. He simply moved towards the ball because HE WAS PLAYING THE BALL.

The basic premise of this rule is that both the reciever and th defensive player have the same right to catch the ball. Since there is only one ball it is almost a certainty that any two players attempting to catch a ball will contact each other. PI is when one player attempts to stop the other from catching the ball by bumping or tackling him instead of by trying to tip or catch the ball. If contact were not allowed while playing the ball it would be nearly impossible to defend a pass. The defender would have to tip or catch the ball without making contact with the reciever being thrown to. Unless the QB can't get the ball close to his reciever this won't happen.

Really any reciever can draw conact by stopping short on a go route with a DB following him. I definitely believe teams practice ways to draw PI since it's basically one of the easier ways to gain big yards in the NFL. I think refs have known for years that this is basically a loophole in NFL rules so they tried to only call it when contact was a blatant attempt to keep the reciever or DB from catching the ball, not when the reciever merely changed direction into the path of a DB. A defensive player cannot possibly control this and is still attempting to defend by the rules.

Recent emphasis has changed how PI is called and I believe that defenders now having to play further off recievers to prevent intentional reciever induced contact and this has led to the QB ratings jumping off the charts the last few years.