Real Self Defense

Hello, I found this site via Wikipeida. I know finding a good martial arts school is difficult, so having a site that exposes the majority of schools that are BS is good. I guess the reason for this is most people in life are full of BS, so it makes sense.

However, from reading the FAQ it seems that there is a pro MMA stance to the community. Especially in regards to effective self defense. I'm just asking because that's the impression I got from the FAQ.

So that leads to my question. It seems in the area of self defense its either scenarios or full contact MMA stlye geared towards sport. But it would seem best to combine the both, no? Like a full contact competition but with one oppenent armed with a rubber knife and the rule that if you get stabbed you lose, It wouldn't be a fair fight, but it would be great training it seems. Any such thing exist?

However, from reading the FAQ it seems that there is a pro MMA stance to the community.

It seems in the area of self defense its either scenarios or full contact MMA stlye geared towards sport.

That is actually a really good point, as MMA stuff is geared towards 1:1 with an unarmed person. I'll probably get laugh off the boards for this, but I'm finding Shodokan Aikido pretty decent for real life type situations. Not that I've ever had to use it, but the emphasis on pinning/joint locking the other person while you remain standing (or at least on your knees) makes sense for most real world situations. Yeah, the wrist based system of Aikido makes absolutely no sense in the cage, but makes a lot more sense when the other person is holding something you don't want to get hit with.

Kali is another excellent system that gets over shadowed by the whole MMA thing. Just like Aikido, Kali makes no sense to train in for the cage, but in real world situations it has great applications. The 'use anything as a weapon' emphasis is something that would definatly come in handy were you caught in a back alley. If you train Kali at a good place you'll learn some joint destruction in the unarmed section that is really simple to apply in real world situations. Stuff like meeting a haymaker with a wrist grab & elbow to the knuckles. Not exactly legal in the cage, but a quick way to end a streetfight.

It isn't so much of the MMA "fighting in the cage/ring" idea that is prevalent but the training methodology that goes into MMA training and the ranges that make up MMA (striking, clinch, ground). You can do all these ranges with weapons, without weapons, with multiple people and without. You can have multiple people with some having weapons, and some without; the possibilities are endless. As long as the training is effective then your self defense is effective. If your training isn't effective then your self defense won't be.

It just happens that the training provided by those who practice/participate in MMA competitions as well as those arts that help in MMA (Muay Thai, Wrestling (freestyle, Greco, Catch), Judo, Boxing, Jiu-Jitsu, Sambo,etc, etc, etc) tend to also be effective in self defense because of their training and their competition applications which allow you to test yourself against others as a measuring point for your skill and training.

Anyone can do a bunch of forms and compliant moves drills and get their black belt and think they are ready for a fight and then find themselves woefully inadequate when it comes time to use their skill set. At the same time, combat sports give practitioners the opportunity to; in a safe controlled enviroment, see if what they are learning is actually effective and will work when called upon in a pressure situation. Other martial arts with unrealistic training approaches that are based more on theory and outdated techniques tend to fail in these situations. It's also one of the reasons you hear the old "street vs sport" and/or "competition vs self defense" brought up a lot. It makes for a convenient excuse for ineffectiveness.

Kali is another excellent system that gets over shadowed by the whole MMA thing. Just like Aikido, Kali makes no sense to train in for the cage, but in real world situations it has great applications.

Even though kali isnt streamlined for MMA, some practitioners have isolated concepts that work pretty well in an MMA type environment, on a fairly consistent basis.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hTiiudoefSE

Originally Posted by golsa

The 'use anything as a weapon' emphasis is something that would definatly come in handy were you caught in a back alley.

Very true, but it makes even more sense that kali's 'deploy things designed as weapons' emphasis is even better.

Originally Posted by golsa

If you train Kali at a good place you'll learn some joint destruction in the unarmed section that is really simple to apply in real world situations. Stuff like meeting a haymaker with a wrist grab & elbow to the knuckles. Not exactly legal in the cage, but a quick way to end a streetfight.

Destructions technically arent illegal in MMA, same principle as the roundhouse to the thigh, really, just much more difficult to pull off. Good stuff, nonetheless.

From my understanding Bas Rutten is a big proponent of cross-training MMA with Krav Maga or something of the like. You may want to check that out.

That is actually a really good point, as MMA stuff is geared towards 1:1 with an unarmed person. I'll probably get laugh off the boards for this, but I'm finding Shodokan Aikido pretty decent for real life type situations. Not that I've ever had to use it, but the emphasis on pinning/joint locking the other person while you remain standing (or at least on your knees) makes sense for most real world situations. Yeah, the wrist based system of Aikido makes absolutely no sense in the cage, but makes a lot more sense when the other person is holding something you don't want to get hit with.

Kali is another excellent system that gets over shadowed by the whole MMA thing. Just like Aikido, Kali makes no sense to train in for the cage, but in real world situations it has great applications. The 'use anything as a weapon' emphasis is something that would definatly come in handy were you caught in a back alley. If you train Kali at a good place you'll learn some joint destruction in the unarmed section that is really simple to apply in real world situations. Stuff like meeting a haymaker with a wrist grab & elbow to the knuckles. Not exactly legal in the cage, but a quick way to end a streetfight.

Kali and FMA's in general get quite a lot of respect here, and in fact there are quite a few practioners (including DB practitioners) as regular posters. You would know this if you spend more time reading the forums rather than looking for proof that we are 'hung on the whole MMA thing.'

The street argument is retarded. BJJ is so much overkill for the street that its ridiculous. Unless you're the idiot that picks a fight with the high school wrestling team, barring knife or gun play, the opponent shouldn't make it past double leg + ground and pound - Osiris

That is actually a really good point, as MMA stuff is geared towards 1:1 with an unarmed person. I'll probably get laugh off the boards for this, but I'm finding Shodokan Aikido pretty decent for real life type situations. Not that I've ever had to use it, but the emphasis on pinning/joint locking the other person while you remain standing (or at least on your knees) makes sense for most real world situations. Yeah, the wrist based system of Aikido makes absolutely no sense in the cage, but makes a lot more sense when the other person is holding something you don't want to get hit with.

Yeah, I'm also quite interested in the entire idea of an Aikido immoblization, where you pin your opponent on the ground with his back exposed to you.

BTW, Tomiki Aikido has competitions where one practitioner tries to stab another, unarmed pracitioner, with a rubber knife.

The goal is to do one of those wristlock throws into a pin.

I've never seen how one works though, although the idea is interesting.

Destructions technically arent illegal in MMA, same principle as the roundhouse to the thigh, really, just much more difficult to pull off. Good stuff, nonetheless.

Oh, I 100% agree that pulling off some of the arm/shoulder socket type destructions would be impracticle almost anywhere. Wouldn't the finger example be illegal though? I'm not exactly up on my MMA rules, but I thought small joint manipulations/attacks were illegal.

Originally Posted by Teh El Macho

Kali and FMA's in general get quite a lot of respect here, and in fact there are quite a few practioners (including DB practitioners) as regular posters. You would know this if you spend more time reading the forums rather than looking for proof that we are 'hung on the whole MMA thing.'

Oh, I'm well aware of the respect Bullshido has for FMAs. But like wise don't assume I'm out to bash MMA because I mentioned Aikido. Pretty much all of my training in the past was done at mixed schools (although I don't think MMA had been coined as a term at the time). That comment was more directed at the fact the general public would overlook FMAs in a heart beat because MMA is the hot new term.

If you train Kali at a good place you'll learn some joint destruction in the unarmed section that is really simple to apply in real world situations. Stuff like meeting a haymaker with a wrist grab & elbow to the knuckles. Not exactly legal in the cage, but a quick way to end a streetfight.

It isn't so much that the destruction isn't legal it's just that elbowing a man in the gloves isn't very effective. In mma you would be attacking one of the three places on his body with protective gear.

BTW, Golsa, you're in a town with a great school for kali. Marc McFann should still be over on North College. The guy gets nothing but respect from me.

Yeah, I'm also quite interested in the entire idea of an Aikido immoblization, where you pin your opponent on the ground with his back exposed to you.

BTW, Tomiki Aikido has competitions where one practitioner tries to stab another, unarmed pracitioner, with a rubber knife.

The goal is to do one of those wristlock throws into a pin.

I've never seen how one works though, although the idea is interesting.

We're working on the tanto randori for competition right now in my club. It's actually very alive, but some of the rules make it far less than realistic. It's very active because your only chance to score points are when you have the knife, so the defender's only goal is to stop you from scoring points.

There point scoring system is less than real because you have to make a full arm thrust for a point to be scorable (or something like that - the idea is to not get 500 points from point blank jabs) and some other stuff like that. But over all, it does a great job in forcing one make the transition from kata to doing something *with* Aikido.

Originally Posted by Naszir

BTW, Golsa, you're in a town with a great school for kali. Marc McFann should still be over on North College. The guy gets nothing but respect from me.

Yeah, I've been by there a few times. He has an excellent grappling/ground fighting program too.