I find it ironic that Yahtzee, famous for his utter hatred of fans and fandom, produced one of the more calm, less insulting pieces on this subject than the more "traditional" journalists. Or maybe that's just me that thinks this. Either way, I disagree, but i thank him for not pulling a full MovieBob on us.

If the internet had existed back in the 60s, the ending to 2001 wouldn't have lasted more than a month. Back then, loads of people were confused, annoyed, or even downright angry with the way the film ended. But because making films back then required very little input from the audience, there was nothing they could do to alter it. If the internet had been around, you can damn well bet that millions of sci-fi fans would have used it to petition Kubrick to make a less crappy, pretentious ending, and to end the film in a real way. And one of the greatest legacies of one of the most important works of science-fiction would have been chucked out in the rubbish, simply to serve the needs of an irate fanbase.

Slightly different, that film was based on a book, which also ended in a stupid and pretentious way if i'm not mistaken.

Good one there Yahtzee.You managed to make a point why BioWare shouldn't change their terrible writing, but without falling into MovieBob hole of yelling: "Ending-O-Tron is ART!"

Still, lets be honest here ... It shouldn't be changed, but then again, people feel the need for someone to pay. I hope that payback comes when fans avoid BioWare's next PR hyped piece of crap and NOT by the same people paying even more money for DLC.

But lets also make one more point here.

End as it is would have worked MUCH better if there was no choice at all. RGB 'splosions were so pathetic that even photo-chop Tali suddenly became "ART!".

The theme of inescapable cycles can be seen elsewhere in the series, such as the implication that ending the Krogan genophage will cause the Krogan wars to happen again

Except if you do everything right in all three games (save Wrex in ME1, save Maelon's data in ME2 so that Eve survives), there is hope that it won't happen again. The game shows you that the krogans are not just mindless brutes, and did have art and culture before the genophage, and there is a chance for them to become a peaceful member of the galactic community.

And then the mass relays blow up, Wrex is left stranded on Earth or that planet in the end, and that's it.

The endings of the genophage arc and the quarian/geth arc were both done well, with multiple different outcomes and a chance to get a good, satisfying ending if you work hard enough for it. That's how the whole game should've ended, not with three buttons that let you choose what color explosion you want.

I can't believe for a moment that the game writers/developers intended to create an ending that would make it hard for fans to replay their products. I can't agree that this is some brilliant artistic commentary on the futility of actions against endless cycles - because playing video games is one of those activities and it would be ridiculously bad policy to demean your own medium by pointing out it's futility/pointlessness.

It's a bad ending. It's not the end of life as we know it, but it's bad. It should be repaired if a repair is possible. If only because it obviously isn't serving the purpose of the creation - which is to get people to play the game. I want to replay ME3, I can't. I've tried. I can't do it. I know what is coming at the end and every time I get to a plot point it just hits me and I have to turn the system off and go do something else. That isn't something that should be happening.

Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Yahtzee, you are totally missing the point like a right dipstick. The reason Mass effect fans want a new ending isn't for any of those silly reasons. The reason is that they are entitled douchebags who think Bioware had invented a program that could read every one of their individual minds and give them whatever they most desired.

Seriously Yahtzee, you should stop talking about stuff you know jack shit about. How could you know how ME fans feel given that you aren't certifiably insane?

Yahtzee Croshaw:Because if it's established that the creators of a story can be pressured by constant browbeating by the audience, then the sanctity of the creator's original intention is made meaningless.

Except there is no such thing as the sanctity of the creator's original intention.

The ending we got is what we got because of publisher meddling, and a new lead writer who was wholly uninterested in actually crafting an ending that was consistent with the rest of the series.

When the original ending got cut the development team was left with a lot of already completed content (and the whole "Take Earth Back!" marketing thing), such as the London scenario and the sequences with the Citadel in orbit around Earth. Since they couldn't justify abandoning these things, a new ending was crafted around them... and it just happened to not make any sense whatsoever.

The original ending, the one about dark energy rapidly aging the Milky Way's suns, had an explanation for how the Citadel ended up in the Sol system. The ending we got just pretended that it wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

The original ending explained that harvesting humanity might be the key to finding a solution to the dark energy problem, as foreshadowed in Mass Effect 2, and would let the player choose to either sacrifice humanity or destroy the Reapers while hoping that the galaxy could be salvaged without them. Not a lot of choice, but a hell of a lot less nonsensical than the Star Child contradicting everything Sovereign and Harbinger ever said, and space magic "fixing" the galaxy in three utterly unsatisfactory ways.

The V Man:I won't be playing ME3. The Mass Effect series has always felt bland to me. And now, knowing how ti all ends, I have no reason to continue.

I think what is most disappointing though is that the ending isn't even original. Maybe some of you have heard of FreeSpace? In the last mission you and a squad of bombers go on a suicide mission and fight through hyperspace to stop the massive death-ship from reaching Earth and culminating in the destruction of said death-ship AND the jump nodes that link back to Earth. It ends and you're more of less certain the explosion kills everyone and the epilogue states how Earth is now unreachable - which strands both humans and Vasudans (and probably a few Shivans too) there with no way to return back home.

Revolutionaryloser:Yahtzee, you are totally missing the point like a right dipstick. The reason Mass effect fans want a new ending isn't for any of those silly reasons. The reason is that they are entitled douchebags who think Bioware had invented a program that could read every one of their individual minds and give them whatever they most desired.

Seriously Yahtzee, you should stop talking about stuff you know jack shit about. How could you know how ME fans feel given that you aren't certifiably insane?

>.> Not sure if serious...

Either way I agree with what someone said earlier: Is Bioware happy with the endings? And I mean this besides "Did this product make them a ton of money." Are the creative guys who crafted the rest of the plot and background happy with the train wreck that is the ending? So far, evidence points to not really.

A lot of people on the "stop complaining about the ending of Mass Effect 3" fly the banner of the "It is about the journey, not the destination." While the other side goes under "don't trip at the finish line."

The journey was amazing, but this was a story with no closure, which is what everyone who enjoys a story wants. The only reason a story would go without closure is if the creators were already planning more story after "the end." The ending really does come off as a really weird dream sequence.

considering the bonus ending with Shepherd breathing at the end, some people claim it was indoctrination, I say it was Shepherd's mind trying to create some fantasy scenario in which his/her death actually meant something instead of him/her dying in a pile of rubble and his/her friends actually surviving the whole ordeal (which would explain the whole team members in the ending sequence).

I don't know how I would feel about that being the ending, but it would actually make sense with the whole "choice doesn't matter in the end" idea. Giant laser doesn't care about the choices you made. Then again, there would be no closure, unless everyone dies gives you some comfort.

if you don't know about the ending thing, I'd say Angry Joe's top 10 reasons we hate Mass Effect 3's Ending is the comprehensive answer.

I wish I understood why so many people hate an ending that I love, but I don't.The magic of opinions, I guess.

Mass Effect 3's ending was haunting, bittersweet epicness.My favorite conclusion to any game EVER.Everything that happens in the end was built towards, everything was foreshadowed, all of it was artistically cinched and concluded.It was powerful, and though not perfect, it was close enough for me.

Shepard is Legend.

Also, anyone butthurt over DLC needs to wake up.They can do it because people buy it.There is nothing illegal or even upsetting about capitalism.

While I can agree with what you're trying to say, you've arrived at your conclusion without taking into account certain things.

This game is largely suffering from the Molyneux effect. Things were promised and simply not delivered. What's worse is things were promised and longtime fans of the series were directed to preorder or even buy collectors editions for 1+1/3 base game price while promises concerning the game's content were being made.

There's many quoted instances of lead designers saying things like "No, we will not be forcing every player of the game to get the same endings that everyone else gets," or "Yes, there will be about 16 endings to the game." These were official Bioware quotes on official pages with official links to buy DLC or preorder at or near the quotes.

When you promise your customers things and take their money at the same time, you cross the boundary between "art for art's sake" and "commissioned art."

Say a painter comes to your house and says "I'd like to paint your house like this," and expounds on how he's going to do it, and you say "fine, here's some money to get you started." You wait a week and come back and the house is painted. It looks pretty good but maybe he messed up the trim around the windows or forgot to paint the door the way he said he was going to or he used mauve instead of a darker shade of mauve. Is it really what he said he was going to do? Can you still justify paying him the money to paint the house?

That's really what we have here. The ending was total shit to be sure. It was horribly crafted and I can't see how the writer made it out of whatever community college he got his degree from, but if they had said absolutely nothing about the game before it was released, we probably wouldn't be seeing this kind of reaction right now.

Sandytimeman:Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

>Praises Mass Effect 3 (a game from a series renound for featureing choices with real outcomes) for doing the same thing only worse. Is the idea that you're proud Bioware was brave enough to completly screw up their game?

It's almost as if Yahtzee likes to alternate his viewpoints specifically to contrast with popular opinion and draw attention to himself.

Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________

Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

Sorry to say I can't agree with Yahtzee. As previously stated, the industry and the community seem to operate on completely different planes of existence. There are media enthusiasts out there that have rightly stated that the ME universe is like that of Star Trek. Not just in fanfare but in scope, viability, and consistency. My feelings were: go ahead and kill Shepard, kill Tali, kill Garrus, kill everyone Shepard has ever known and loved if you like--just don't fuck with the universe. That ending killed the universe. It destroys the mass relays, it destroys the Citadel, and it cuts the player/viewer off from the survivors of the Reaper war and the events that follow it. The last five minutes of ME3 essentially end the ME universe. No amount of optional endings, heroes surviving, or Reapers defeating would overshadow the fact that everything I've come to love about this franchise is basically done with in the canon ending. I guess that makes me an unreasonable fanboy.

Mylinkay Asdara:Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Sadly, this seems to be the case. As much in gaming as it is in politics.

Belittle the suffering, and do your best to take away their options if you don't want said options for yourself.

Sandytimeman:Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.

The V Man:I won't be playing ME3. The Mass Effect series has always felt bland to me. And now, knowing how ti all ends, I have no reason to continue.

I think what is most disappointing though is that the ending isn't even original. Maybe some of you have heard of FreeSpace? In the last mission you and a squad of bombers go on a suicide mission and fight through hyperspace to stop the massive death-ship from reaching Earth and culminating in the destruction of said death-ship AND the jump nodes that link back to Earth. It ends and you're more of less certain the explosion kills everyone and the epilogue states how Earth is now unreachable - which strands both humans and Vasudans (and probably a few Shivans too) there with no way to return back home.

So, yeah. Too bad about that 'epic' ending.

Having played FS myself, many years ago, I was thinking this. Although I haven't been able to make this comparison to anyone in real life, since all my friends who have played Freespace don't want spoilers for ME3. You have to think, however that things in ME end up a lot worse than they did in FS, since the relay explosions have presumably wiped out most life in the galaxy, leaving us much worse off than if the reapers had killed all intelligent life themselves.

H-a-v-o-k:Seriously.. I love bioware, I'll still buy there games, I'm not on the message boards much, but I feel the need to get in on this.. It was a superb ending to an even better series, and not trying to get in on this heated fire exchange that's been going over the internet, but I believe the ending did go over most people's heads.

SPOILER ALERT_____________________________________________

Shepherd was indoctrinated through the whole series, the end of the game was not truly inside the crucible, it was the battle of indoctrination is Shepherd's mind. I have more to back up this argument if anyone is interested.

The thing is, here, that the indoctrination theory is just speculation. And if it's true, it instead leaves us with a non-ending where the battle for the Earth and the Citadel isn't over yet. Which leaves us with an incomplete game.

And it's a well-known theory, so I wouldn't say it's going over people's heads.

Fr]anc[is:So EA gets to fuck with the writer's (btw, the head writer for ME1 was gone for ME3) story, but the fans don't?

The point is that it's Bioware's (not EA's) story, and not the fans' story. You're allowed to have your opinion of the story, you're even allowed to write fanfiction that changes the ending if you're displeased with it, but he's addressing anyone who feels entitled to a different ending. It's figuratively like reading a book, and then after finishing it crumpling it up and throwing it back at the author, yelling "No! You got it all wrong! Do it again!"

It's the author's story. They are entitled to end it with whatever message they want. Now if you don't feel entitled to a different ending, but you feel like the current one was poorly mishandled, that's an entirely different story.

At this stage I think Bioware would be better off setting up a nice sandwich shop somewhere. Haven't played ME3 yet but I'm sure I'll get around to it. Biwoare fans (or ex-fans I guess) seem to be the absolute whiniest children I've ever met. It's not that they don't like it, it's that it's objectively bad with no redeeming qualities and (somehow) every Bioware game made since ME1 is the last Bioware game anyone is going to buy ever.

Sorry, are you implying that Moviebob and Yahtzee are not gamers, and you are?Because if so, I feel a full-blown facepalm coming.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.

I'm not saying they are paid off, I'll say that right now. I just think from a professional point they tend to see things more from the creators prospective then from a fans.

btw Moviebob also has a gaming show over on screwattack so he also plays games for a living as well XD

Also I'm not saying the ending should be changed (if you had read the rest of my first post you quoted)

I'm saying we were lied to as consumers, the 17 plus endings and the ABC ending that wasnt going to happen in fact did happen. Don't buy bioware is all I'm trying to say because they don't have the ability to right a good narrative anymore.

But even if I disagree with his conclusions about the theme of Mass Effect, I can definitely see the problems that arise when you start changing the endings-George Lucas (of all people!) made a very articulate speech about the dangers of changing art back in 1989 before congress (this was in response to the 'touching up' of Cassablanca).

Then he went and made the Special Editions, but that's a topic for a different thread.

On the other hand, the barn-door on changing the ending is already open-I wonder where everyone was when Fallout 3: Broken Steel was released.

My problem wasn't the "rocks fall everyone dies" content of the ending but it was the premise that brought you there.

The idea that artificial life will inevitable exterminate all organic life is so broken and stupid that it boggles the mind. For one thing the DAMN REAPERS THEMSELVES are artificial life that isn't going around exterminating all organic life.

And humans are far more advanced than mosquitoes, annoyed by them occasionally, but aren't on a worldwide genocide campaign against them.

But also the idea that the ending depended on one last choice invalidated the rest of the choices for the series. At least in Kotor you had a light ending and a dark ending. And you couldn't just reload the last save to get the other.

Not that I was the biggest fan of the series but the ending just seemed like a tacked on clusterfuck.

Why has this become such a divisive hate-filled discussion when some people are actually suffering from sadness and truly upset at something they love being taken away from them? Is there no sympathy, no empathy in this community? Are we really all just a bunch of individualists who think we are right all the time and don't care how anyone feels around us? I am saddened by this whole thing. I grow more distant from the community with every passing day this drags on.

Listen, I have empathy for my fellow gamer for most things. But not this.

This whole ME3 ending thing was blown way way out of proportion. I can understand you are upset and saddened by the ending but that's where my empathy ends.

You can be dissatisfied with a game, you can be pissed all your questions weren't answered, you can be upset with bioware and even boycott future games. But you aren't entitled to tell the developers what to do.

If you don't like how they do business/make games/talk to customers/make videos/listen to music than you are fully within your right to not support them don't buy their products, don't visit their forums and don't hang onto their every word like it's a promise.

but don't buy their game and then complain you don't like it and they need to change it, it's asinine. I have a copy of alone in the dark but you don't see me petitioning Atari to take out the driving sections and replace it with something better.

not to mention the whole 'retake mass effect' movement couldn't be any more disorganized, other than 'we want a new ending' everyone involved seems to have a different idea of what should happen.

can we just move on now?

Smertnik:I love how every time someone speaks against this whole retake ME3 nonsense people just dismiss everything with 'Meh, s/he just doesn't get it'

because obviously the hatred for Mass Effect 3's ending must be unanimous across all gamer culture.

I'm saying there is a difference between someone who plays games and watches movies for a living, than someone who works a standard 9-5 job and plays games for enjoyment and escapism. Yes.

In fact Movie bob has stated there is a difference in several of his articles about how he sees movies different from your average joe because he sees almost every movie that comes out and your regular person sees only one or two a month, at best.

Plus they are involved in the industry I feel they have a bit of stake in things to side mostly with the authors and not with the consumers. Thus the "its the consumers fault for caring about/ being angry about getting a shitty ending" that seems to be cropping up amongst all paid reviewers.

I'm pretty certain Moviebob plays plenty of games all the time, and he cares for them, and reads about them. Making him a "gamer". So, your point being?

I also find it down-right offensive that you would think they would side with the "industry" just because they have jobs for the Escapist. None of them have integrity, huh? Except both spend most of their time bashing either popular games or movies.Heck, I think the claim that "consumers" have a say in how a written creations ending is supposed to be is fucking retarded, but I guess I have written an unpublished short-story, so I'm biased. Hurr-durr.

I'm not saying they are paid off, I'll say that right now. I just think from a professional point they tend to see things more from the creators prospective then from a fans.

btw Moviebob also has a gaming show over on screwattack so he also plays games for a living as well XD

Also I'm not saying the ending should be changed (if you had read the rest of my first post you quoted)

I'm saying we were lied to as consumers, the 17 plus endings and the ABC ending that wasnt going to happen in fact did happen. Don't buy bioware is all I'm trying to say because they don't have the ability to right a good narrative anymore.

I can agree that the ending was probably eh...Not what was expected. I can also say that yes, it is shit, and that something else was "promised", but such a promise is never binding within the videogame-industry, and you can't take it at facevalue (shit, I have so many "promises" from Blizzard to quote..).If people want to stop buying their games, that's fine with me. I'm holding out for..Uh..Let's see, I didn't play Bioshock 2, and probably won't play Bioshock 3. I hated Dragon Age 2 and I won't buy Dragon Age 3 if it is even remotely similar. I also never liked Mass Effect in any form..Okey, I actually probably won't buy Bioware-games either, until they come up with a new IP, but that's because their sequels have sucked, not due to some form of boycott.

Yahtzee Croshaw:Because if it's established that the creators of a story can be pressured by constant browbeating by the audience, then the sanctity of the creator's original intention is made meaningless.

Except there is no such thing as the sanctity of the creator's original intention.

The ending we got is what we got because of publisher meddling, and a new lead writer who was wholly uninterested in actually crafting an ending that was consistent with the rest of the series.

When the original ending got cut the development team was left with a lot of already completed content (and the whole "Take Earth Back!" marketing thing), such as the London scenario and the sequences with the Citadel in orbit around Earth. Since they couldn't justify abandoning these things, a new ending was crafted around them... and it just happened to not make any sense whatsoever.

The original ending, the one about dark energy rapidly aging the Milky Way's suns, had an explanation for how the Citadel ended up in the Sol system. The ending we got just pretended that it wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

The original ending explained that harvesting humanity might be the key to finding a solution to the dark energy problem, as foreshadowed in Mass Effect 2, and would let the player choose to either sacrifice humanity or destroy the Reapers while hoping that the galaxy could be salvaged without them. Not a lot of choice, but a hell of a lot less nonsensical than the Star Child contradicting everything Sovereign and Harbinger ever said, and space magic "fixing" the galaxy in three utterly unsatisfactory ways.

Oooh, where'd you hear that? Not calling you out, it just sounds fascinating. I was wondering what happened to all that Dark Energy stuff they kept mentioning in Mass Effect 2.

As for the topic at hand, it doesn't matter how shitty the ending is, or how many times Bioware lied to you. Nothing they did warrant's the stupidity of all this "Change the ending" nonsense. You're (presumably) adults. Stop acting like whiney children and get the fuck over it.

I hope we can put this behind us and remember that no matter how bad the ending was, Dragon Age 2 was still shittier.

Though some people are also apparently upset that they were promised a varied ending that reflected their choices. But the more I read about ME3, the more it seems like just that - a varied ending that reflects what the players have said and done throughout the game. And for a game-long ending to a series, it seems pretty fitting. As for the last 20-30 minutes of it: there aren't really a lot of options for dealing with mind-control robots from space that have already taken over half the galaxy.