"Live-on" mini-Farm

Hunting Lodge (Well stocked)

Property next to a "live-on" neighbor

OK, there has been a fair bit of discussion of gathering a tribe and having a retreat for everyone to get to in a SHTF, but the practical side of the retreat has been kind of glossed over. So here are some of my thoughts on the retreat.

The first thing is you would need to buy the land for the retreat. If you think you are just going to all head to some DNR land and settle in I suspect you will arrive to find a few thousand other folks had the same idea. So you would need to decide what area you wanted to get land in and if it should be accessible for trade or secluded for security or some combination like say some kind of peninsula or whatever that would have limited access and thus be easily defensible but in a place decent for trade. Then you need to look at how many folks would be there and how much land it takes in that area to produce whats needed. For instance in some areas of the south west it takes as much as 20 or more acres to support a beef where in some areas of the Midwest as little as 2-4 acres will support a beef and plants like in a garden have similarly varied production depending on the area. So how much land do you need in the selected area to support the tribe and the animals they will eat along with gardens, fields and orchards (wild game will be hunted to the brink of non existence in short order once there are no stores).

So now you have decided how much land and where but if its just left to go wild until TSHTF then by the time you need it nothing will be ready and any buildings will be dilapidated at best. If you are going to the extent of having the retreat arranged it should be ready to move in and start living, that means there needs to be live stock already there (trying to acquire it and get it established post SHTF isn't likely to work out well), have crops in during the growing season so that if SHTF toward the end of the growing season it would be to late to get anything in for that year, even in say August. All this means there needs to be someone there to take care of it as well as to assure there are not already squatters dug in by the time the tribe gets there and to establish relations with the locals, even the most remote locations have neighbors even if they are a mile or 2 away.

So the tribe buys the land and sets it up in a trust so no one member can get a wild hair and sell it or whatever and so that there isn't a problem with the 'owner' being the one who doesn't make it there. My thoughts are that it would be best to then pick a member of the tribe or even a couple families from the tribe and have them move in on the land, buy live stock to set the place up and the materials for getting everything as it would need to be (i.e. trees for orchards, seed for gardens and crops, tools to work it as would be done post SHTF etc.) and possibly set the place up on solar, wind or other electric so that it is self supporting.

The care takers would then live off the retreat much as the tribe would when/if the time came and the extra that was produced (the difference between what animals and crops they used as opposed to what the whole tribe would use) could be sold to pay taxes and provide for the extras for the care takers. This way the other members of the tribe could use the place as a 'vacation spot' or whatever in the mean time and also get a bit of a sense of what went into running things but the care takers would be accustomed to the daily life that would be needed post SHTF (with the exception of some of the security and such) and could help the rest of the tribe learn these things quicker and easier when they came.

They would also have everything ready in case the whole tribe showed up so that it wouldn't take from a year (for the crops) to 10 years (like for the orchards) to get the place up to speed for feeding the tribe. They could also establish relations with the locals so that the rest of the tribe when they arrived could be 'with these guys' and not just a band of strangers that showed up (trust me this makes a lot of difference in rural areas, knowing locals especially homegrown folks who will vouch for you makes life a LOT easier even now and this would just be more so post SHTF) and keep the place secure from squatters, its a LOT easier to turn them away than to roust them after they have a chance to get settled and dug in. The care takers would have no expenses other than the taxes on the land and the 'extras' they wanted like phone and Internet and such (lets face it if the place wont support the care takers now there's no way it would support the whole tribe when needed) since the retreat would need to be self supporting for food, the tribe already bought the land, so they have no rent/mortgage payments, no grocery bills, and ideally no utilities since they would need to be created on the retreat if needed. So basically no bills and say 10 head of beef a year to sell at 1k or so each, a few gallons of milk a day to sell (average cow puts out at least 4 gallons a day) at say $1.50/gal, crops beyond whats needed to sell and so on (the stuff the tribe would be using if they were there and keep enough for one year in reserve) and before long they have virtually no bills and an income of say 20k/year with 1k or so in taxes being the primary bill from it.

Now if SHTF all the tribe has to do is show up and pitch in on the running of things to ramp it up a bit and run security but its already running.
What are some of the rest of you alls thoughts on this subject?

Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect aplause, he noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self made laws....

The problem with anything like this is Distance of all interested parties and the general "Lot of talk, no action" that always seems to occur in groups like this. I keep looking for that perfect piece of land but in the meantime, I am stocking up for the crowd that would show if SHTF before we had anything else. I know of a party already that would be here at my place

Another thing is the time involved in the caring for of the place. Most here have jobs and other obligations that keep them from truly enjoying life... myself included. I'm reading into your post a bit here, but think you may be suggesting that you could be such a "caretaker". I'm not at all opposed to that setup. Again the distance comes into play. I'm in E TN and it looks like a haul to get to W MO.

Would be a simple matter to set up an LLC or some other entity to hold the property in. Could be set up like a Hunting Club. Each initial member would have an initial "investment" to secure the property and some other basics. Yearly or monthly dues could be applied to improvements and taxes. Members would then be able to preposition supplies and use the property as a weekend getaway as well. (That last part is a very important selling feature for the wives of said members) They are sold on a 'vacation' property....

Clyde and I have tried and continue to this day to find some remote land in the midwest/SE for this same idea. But then others debate weather it should be on water and close to some form of trade while and others insist on remote. The thing to do would be to just do it and then offer up the 'shares' to others whom were interested.

Good idea and it does need pursuing. We are going to sit here and talk about this until the Balloon goes up and all we have is our Keyboards in our hands.

Each like their own area and doesn't want to look more than a couple 100 mles in any direction for the most part.

<snip>
That's why I tried to set up some regions for this very thing to happen. If you had the midwest with a few and I had the SE., (technically, I'm still condisered midwest I think), we could have and plan for farms like this. That's also where the long distance communications came into play.

some good food or thought. If you want to start a post on this, I'll clean up some of my responses to you and chime in.

I figure it would basicly be set up in such a way that care taker would become the job of the person. They would basicly be farming the retreat but with it being set up to be self sustaining (as far as the ability to provide all needed food and basic needs for the entire group, idealy includeing electric) and so the niceties like phone and such is all they would need to pay for and maybe a vehicle to do whatever running they needed to do. With the retreat being able to sustain the entire group there would be enouph excess while only the care takers were there that it could be sold to cover these extras.
I wasnt nesicarily looking for the position since I know most folks arent interested in the area of the country Im in and the only things I figure would improve much on where Im at would be some more acerage and maybe a bit more secluded since Im on a state highway...well that and the things Im already working on like a few specialty out buildings like the smoke house and cold house, a well since ours isnt functional, and more livestock. But the area is about the most fertile I know of and so the same amount of land will suport more people and animals than in most areas. I suppose if it was in my area then I would be willing to consider accepting a position like that just because for me that basic type of life (self supporting from the land and not haveing to buy much of anything but just make or grow it myself) is my ideal life. I basicly brought it up just because I see so many folks talk about haveing land some place that just sets dormant for a retreat or worse thinking they will find a place after the baloon goes up, and I figure it makes a lot more sence to have a mutual benifitial situation where someone can keep the place ready and running in case it is needed for the group and in return get the use of the place without the cash investment and a place in the group if the time comes that everyone needs to head there.

Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect aplause, he noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self made laws....

One that I can see as the best would be land that was set up and ready to go with the 'caretaker' on premise. That could be one family of the group, a few families, or a designated 'caretaker'. Cows a grazin, crops a bloomin, and everything dusted and topped off.

Families that were involved could BO to this spot and just slip right into the routine. A little training, some blisters, and they'd be good to go in a few weeks.

The second option is to have some land that is in the right spot, yet stays vacant much of the year. Think Hunting Lodge. It's there and supplies need to be pretty well secured or hidden from vandals/thieves. This retreat is planned to evolve into a full blown place in , say, 5 yrs.

Third is a spot that you have seen that has a pretty well set up 'mini farm' already going. you don't own the land, you have no say in it's disposition. But it's the best spot you've seen yet. Enough to make you think that you may find yourself a bugout guy instead of a bugin guy... Think 150 miles away with being able to pre-position some supplies in a spare barn if needed. You are welcome there to a point.

So what's the best way to plan?

I've considered myself a BI guy for 5 yrs now. I know my spread isn't perfect. I have seen a property that is better than mine. so I'm now for the first time thinking BO

I also have available resources to build a retreat from scratch. It will be an 'unmanned' retreat though. as the wives involved will not go for a totally rural 'live in' that rural with no services.

Now if SHTF all the tribe has to do is show up and pitch in on the running of things to ramp it up a bit and run security but its already running.

Click to expand...

Good stuff - gets the grey matter moving. I think your scenario can work but I don't think there is any one perfect solution. Every solution has pros and cons because you can't plan for every SHTF scenario.

I have a few minor concerns with your scenario. Mainly around distance as Melbo stated.
1. Distance - In a true SHTF situation I want to be able to get there fast. I guess you are assuming we will have warning.
2. Who really owns it? So a SHTF does not happen in the next 20 years the caretaker gets the benefits - whats in it for me.
3. Distance - if you are going to have a tribe concept then everyone has to learn to work together...better to find out if we can ...before the SHTF - Distance could preclude getting together to work out strategies and work out who does what. Yes - computers are nice but face time is better.
4. Governance - what if I don't like the caretaker's approach. Do we all have a say in how he runs things. And what about the caretaker - all of a sudden after 10 years he has company and other people telling him how things should be done.

I would like to purpose a 4th idea. Nothing new here. Its been done before. But what I have in mind is a small community/development. Every one owns their own parcel of land and looks after their own. But the community bands together for mutual defense and benefit. Kind of like the small communities on the frontier of America in the beginning. Study how some of the small communities were set up and operated in Kentucky in the 1700s and you will see what I mean. Americans are an independent lot and we have never done well in communal situations which sounds like the situation you are describing.

My parcel can be my mini farm, retreat, hunting cabin, present home, retirement home, or weekend retreat Size could be as small as an acre each but probably no more than 10 acres each but also with community property. Size depends on how much can be defended. The community is self sufficient as possible and off the grid. As with your scenario there are also cons with this one.

Regards

\"animis opibusque parati\"

\"YOU CAN\'T CALL YOURSELF PREPARED FOR AN EMERGENCY UNLESS YOU FIRST CONSIDER WHAT CONDITIONS MIGHT BE PRESENT AT THAT TIME, AND YOU PLAN FOR OPERATIONS IN THOSE CONDITIONS.\"

Let me start by saying that IMO when planning for what to do in a SHTF situation Mackovellian (sp?) is the only way to go. In other words have contengency plans for your contengency plans. The folks at the retreat need a place to go to if the situation is focused around their area. I figure BI is best if one can be set up for it and the situation allows but even if this is the basic plan you need to find the best option you can for in case BI is not an option and be prepaired to BO if forced to do so by the situation.

That said my idea of the best situation would be to have at least 2 retreats for the group, both of which would be set up and have a caretaker and be able to support the entire group and well seperated from each other so that if the one retreat is at the epecenter then the other is still likely to be viable.

prepareordie said:

monkeyman said:

Now if SHTF all the tribe has to do is show up and pitch in on the running of things to ramp it up a bit and run security but its already running.

Click to expand...

Good stuff - gets the grey matter moving. I think your scenario can work but I don't think there is any one perfect solution. Every solution has pros and cons because you can't plan for every SHTF scenario.

I have a few minor concerns with your scenario. Mainly around distance as Melbo stated.
1. Distance - In a true SHTF situation I want to be able to get there fast. I guess you are assuming we will have warning.

Distance is definatly a consideration but IMO it is a double edged sword and you have to find the balance least likely to cut you. If its to close it is likely of no use since bugging out to go next door isnt likely to be of much benifit since the situation would be about the same, on the flip side travel is likely to be hard and dangerous in a SHTF situation, so you have find a balance. This is one reason why havein localized groups with the option of mergeing with other groups in other areas would be most ideal.

2. Who really owns it? So a SHTF does not happen in the next 20 years the caretaker gets the benefits - whats in it for me.

That would depend on how a group decided to set it up. My thoughts were a situation where the group would pool money to buy it and have it held either by a trust which would be controled by a board of all the members or a corperation where the members are the shareholders and board members with a buy out claws in the inc. papers to establish rules on selling ones shares.
As to whats in it for the rest of the members it once again depends on how the group decides to set it up. At the least the have it as insurance that if SHTF they have a secured, stocked and operating place to go. Beyond that it could either be set up so the caretaker makes their living by selling off excess beyond whats needed for their use, maintaining reserves and breeding stock/replanting seed. This way they can pay the taxes on the place, utilities, gas and so on to suport themselves.
The other option being that either the group could pay 'dues' or some such to cover these things or if feasable the caretaker could have another job for these expenses and the excess is devided up by the group. If things are set up well enouph to allow for trade post SHTF then it may be most feasable that the stocks can be kept up, (or through rotation of stock) the members get to have fresh, frozen and or canned foods provided by the place to basicly eliminate their food bills. Meats from butchering stock, veggies from the garden, (eggs from the chickens, milk from the farm if close enouph to be practical) and fruits from the orchard and so on. It all just depends on how the group chooses to set it up.

3. Distance - if you are going to have a tribe concept then everyone has to learn to work together...better to find out if we can ...before the SHTF - Distance could preclude getting together to work out strategies and work out who does what. Yes - computers are nice but face time is better.

Tend to agree there. A couple of the things that could be done to help with that would be along the lines of, if its a group spread across the country or a large area, then you have smaller groups with the option of mergeing for each area so getting face time is easier. Another thing would be the idea of it being used as a kind of vacation spot by the group. Idealy it would be set up with cabins or some such for each family, a small lake or large pond or stream for fishing and swimming as well as water source for the livestock and some decent hunting. This way everyone can come out and enjoy it as a weekend get away spot, vacation spot and hunting lodge and while there can also get hands on with the working of the place.

4. Governance - what if I don't like the caretaker's approach. Do we all have a say in how he runs things. And what about the caretaker - all of a sudden after 10 years he has company and other people telling him how things should be done.

Again would depend on how it was established, and this would be a thing that would have to be established before the buy in. My thoughts are it would be such that as long as it was acomplishing the goal of holding enouph stocks and either supporting the caretaker or provideing the rest of the group with enouph to justify them pitching in to support them, then running it up to the time of SHTF would be up to the caretaker but if someone else dosnt agree with how they are doing it there could be a means of them going out and handleing the aspects they didnt like and if it worked fine and if not then they get to do whats needed to repair any damage they have done. For instange Joe decides the caretaker is doing the garden wrong he can present his thoughts to the caretaker but if the CT dont want to head it then Joe can let it be known he will take over the garden and can come out and handle it relieving the CT of that job. At harvest time if there isnt as enouph to meet the needed goals then Joe gets to go out and buy the produce to make up the difference. Kind of like the camp cook thing, if you complain you must know how to do it better so have at it or shut up so long as the foods there.
There would also have to be a means prearranged to remove the care of the place from any caretaker who didnt keep it produceing enouph to hold the stocks as needed and such and to hand it off to a new CT.
As to post SHTF the place would idealy be set up with cabins or some such for each family that would have previously been their vacation/weekend place and it could be predetermined how things would be deligated or split up. My thoughts were that when if the rest of the group had to BO there then the CT would basicly train each of them for a particular task or set of tasks on the farm, which may best be preagreed to, and each person or family would become responsible for some aspect of the place. A microcosm of devision of labor, one family doing the garden, another tending the cattle, another dealing with the pigs, another with the chickens, another with the field crops like the wheat and hay and so on. The family or person in charge of a given aspect is in charge of that aspect so long as they are getting done what needs to be done, if not then someone else can take it over and the ones haveing done that can do another task or they can be required to take the advice of someone with more knowledge. I would say however that as long as you had found a competent CT then one of the big benifits would be that they would have already been living it day to day and so would be likely most qualified to guide the running of the tasks to keep the place running and produceing since they would have 'been there done that'.

I would like to purpose a 4th idea. Nothing new here. Its been done before. But what I have in mind is a small community/development. Every one owns their own parcel of land and looks after their own. But the community bands together for mutual defense and benefit. Kind of like the small communities on the frontier of America in the beginning. Study how some of the small communities were set up and operated in Kentucky in the 1700s and you will see what I mean. Americans are an independent lot and we have never done well in communal situations which sounds like the situation you are describing.

My parcel can be my mini farm, retreat, hunting cabin, present home, retirement home, or weekend retreat Size could be as small as an acre each but probably no more than 10 acres each but also with community property. Size depends on how much can be defended. The community is self sufficient as possible and off the grid. As with your scenario there are also cons with this one.

Regards

Click to expand...

My explanation may not have been thourogh enouph but I dont think the ideas are that far seperated. Figure everyone would have a place there and if they chose could vacation or live or whatever there and if the size of the place allowed have a seperate garden if wanted or whatever, but you would have at least one person who would be there all the time to be sure they knew from experience the daily running of a working farm that would fill all the basic needs and could keep it running untill needed as well as be available to train those who had no clue on the tasks they would need to do to provide their own food, clothing and so on.

Im sure we have some other folks here, and you may be one of them, who have spent a good bit of time on working farms or even live on one and know what it takes to do the garden, how to care for critters, how to milk a cow or goat, how to butcher their own meat, tann hides, make clothes, and any or all of the other tasks that would be required. Most folks though have not lived it on a daily basis and I can say first hand, even if you have been exposed to it, if you havent lived it full time you wont jump right in and be able to produce enouph to support yourself. I grew up in the city but spent a bunch of time on relatives farms so had a head start over most city folks. I moved to my farm a few years back and the garden has improved each year but started off as a flop and the only thing I got to produce the first year was tomatoes and hot peppers, all the rest died. Most of our first flock of chickens died off from eating each other from a lack of calcium, predators we had not learned to controle and so on. If we had moved onto the place and tried to start it operating post SHTF, even with say a 2-3 year supply of food we would most likely have starved in the first year after the supplies ran out.

Im not saying this would be ideal for everyone and a lot of preplanning to iron out details would be escential for any group planning to do something like that so there was no misunderstandings. [/code]

Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect aplause, he noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self made laws....

I guess I would be more inclined to bug-in for a couple reasons which have to do with familiarity with my resources, the area, and sufficient acreage to maintain myself, my daughter and 3 grandchildren. My location is rural but not remote. I have an abundance of wildlife, a good stream for fish and water, several dug wells throughout the property which would just need shoring up, fields for crops, woods for cover, and trees for building and fuel, pastures for stock, more New England potatoes (rocks/boulders) than I could ever use for building extra shelters and fencing. If I couple all these factors with knowing this land like the back of my hand (I can and have traveled it in pitch black and never gotten lost) I think I have a pretty good base of operations. I figure that at my age, staying local would make more sense than going to an extremely remote location which would pose challenges I might not be physically capable of meeting.

“You will never do anything in this world without courage. It is the greatest quality of the mind next to honor.” Aristotle

"The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion."Albert Camus________________________________

If I have managed to get through the day without wishing bodily harm to another human being, if I have gotten through the day without killing a plant, if I have been able to get at least 2 hours of sleep, if I have been able to hide my fangs behind a smile and rain on my heart behind a laugh, it has been a successful day. my evil twin

All good thinking, and good questions. The idea of a sort of communal ownership town full of like minded individuals sounds good to me, with a lot of "ifs, ands, and buts" attached. Getting rid of the ifs, ands and buts would not be a trivial task, but it could be done with sufficient e-time and face time for compatibility checks before need. Communal ownership won't work well for a long time, but for short it would be fine until the personality grating starts, which it almost certainly will. Imagine being married to, say, 30 odd people of all sexes, ages and races, and staying that way for years. Shudder. Solomon would have problems with that, and him I ain't.

Next best might be holding property next door to a like minded individual that can be trusted to keep an eye on your prepositioned stuff and things. He would be a bug in type to compliment your bug out needs. That would be even better than the commune, simply because the only compatibility issue is trust and the fewer the ifs ands and buts the better.

When push comes to shove, the best would be two bug ins living far apart that could watch the next door property of the other. That way, both would have a place to go come the need. This is out of the question for most, me included. If something comes up here in VA, I have to hit the road, end of story. So my goal, then, is to aquire some property, somewhere, that I'll have for retirement eventually, and a place to pitch a tent in the meantime. Even when retirement happens, the possibility of a BO from that property exists. Loosely translated, I have to be prepared to BO no matter what, and so do all of us. None are so isolated and inconsequential that we wouldn't be in harm's way of something.

From my perspective, natural disasters, rumors, and the predations of the dot gov are our main worries. MZBs and terrorists are a distant concern. Prepare for Momma Nature and Murphy, fight the political fight with time and money, use common sense with the rumor mongering public and private press, and we'll all be ok. With a nod to all the bug in advocates, just keep your BOB to hand.

The whole big-in or bug-out all depends upon numerous variables. If it is a couple of months I can stay put, and even could for longer durations with land close by to hunt, plant, and a nice sized lake behind my house for water and fish. I also have a couple of like-minded neighbors that have AK's (due to the build party), stored ammo, reloading machines and they have lots of real world talent. The sub-division is rural, a couple of miles from town and consist of only about 11 houses with natural barriers on two sides, and it's on a hill. With a little time it could be made to be defended. If I believed it was going to be long term, and travel could be accomplished with a certain degree of safety then I am gone. I have too much family land with too much wildlife, water, and livestock not too. The problem is that it is 8 hours away. On a good day.

Yeah by all means, I would say the prefered option so long as not at the epicenter of the situation would be to bug in if you are able to be in a place where this might be realistic (as in NOT smack in the middle of a major metro area) would be to bug in, at the same time I have been the one who was stuck in a big urban area and even now that Im rural still know that there are things that could well make bugging out escential. To name a few we are only about 20-30 miles as the Sniper flies (lol) from the home base for the entire US complement of stelth aircraft which I could see being a prime target for a NBC attack that would effect here but not so much say 100 miles away, we are withing 30 miles or so of 3 towns around 250k population or more and we are on a smaller highway and within 2 miles of a 2 lane highway thats heavily traveled to cross the state and would be a likely route for nuclear transports and such that try to avoid heavy traffic or population so there could be problems from things coming through there and having an accident. That would be some of the most likely things I could see why I might have to BO from here and doubt there are many areas where there wouldnt be their own special reasons.

Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect aplause, he noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self made laws....

Depending on what scenario your facing you probably won't get very far on the roads, 100 miles is a pretty stiff gamble in a crisis situation!
If you bought a piece of land and just planted the heck out with fruit, nuts and self propagating vegetation like grapes, Passion fruit, Hardy Kiwi things like that. It would just go on its own and you wouldn't even have to go there.
Hidden and well secured, Underground Bunker maybe with Blast-proof doors would keep the occasional wandering hunter from bothering your stockpiled goods. Would be better if you could dig your own well, and wire for solar or keep everything you would need locked up in the bunker.
This would give fruit trees a chance to mature and also attract Deer and other wildlife into the area consuming falling fruit and leaving behind fertilizer.
If you had it fenced off, you could, turn some Chicken's, sheep or goats, as long as they had water, they forage.
I have found that sheep would probably be better for this than goats. Sheep like weeds more than grass, and are grazers, whereas Goats are browsers and most likely eat all your fruit tree's and vines.
If you had 9 ewe's and a ram it would not take long for that herd to get going at all. Average of 8 animal to an acre is the ratio.
I Am going to pick up 6 more Doe Goats and 2 more Ewe Sheep for my herd. I have recently picked up a Nubian Billy and a Female Dairy Goat, plus I have more babies coming any day now.
Come bug out time they will all have to be slaughtered and smoked/dehydrated first.
The larger animals attract too much unwanted attention. My Rabbits are easy to contain, silent and have the highest protein ratio of any meat so I would simply move them in close and keep them going.

Last edited: Aug 5, 2014

A Man without a plan, is a Man Without A Plan!! Hurricanes, Tornado's, Floods, Power outages, Civil Unrest...... Pick your poison, how many times do you hear the words "We were totally Unprepared for this, we never expected....." Nuff Said.

What you are describing is every small rural farming community in the US. Chatting with a second cousin one time in passing, I said I wanted to move out of the city when I retired. Right off, why don't you move here and support the local economy? I might. Network. I know I am lucky to have family, even though I am single. One of the church ladies will remember, oh yeah, his aunt was daughter to so and so, married that guy and moved to the city. That's right! He seems nice.

I understand the process of creating community out of Internet nothingness. But check it out. You might already know a survival community. You might be related to it. And they might be real glad to have you rejoin the community, fit in and become one of them again.

I've attempted to get something very similar up and running several times in the past ten years. Tried with family, tried with friends, all everyone ever contributed were excuses and predictions of failure. I know someone who actually wrote a business plan to start a corporate trust which would use the trust for the purchase and development of the land and farm and grant 99 year leases investors and members. (Membership capped at 100) The entire project could be self sustaining and have all investors repaid in as little as two to three years. She went the friends and family route and met with stiff resistance and open hostility. I was going to buy in but I held off to see how committed she was and now it appears she has no interest in marketing her idea.

Too bad, I thought her plan was rather well laid out and much more thought out than mine was.
If someone else ever has a similar project I'd be interested.

"I don't like what I see in the society ...It's too loud. Too colorful. The lack of aesthetics. The crudeness. The inanities. The trivia." The North Pond Hermit
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Buddy has 20 acres leased inside a farm. Individuals are getting @ one acre that can be fenced, tilled, and lived on semi permanently. Two will be permanent as "care takers". Another section is a community garden. It joins a hunting preserve and other family lands. Spring fed small streams on either side provide ample water.

Excellent thread on an important topic. This post will ramble a bit, for better or worse that's just how my mind sorts things so I do apologize in advance. I think the idea of regional retreats is spot on. It's the only way possible for a larger overall group. It just isn't feasible for a large group of people to travel over a long distance with any real chance of success in a crisis. One has to remember that ideally a member will not be traveling light no matter how much they may preposition before an event. Survivalist (I prefer that term over prepper) by nature have a bit of a "hoarder" gene that makes us reluctant to leave anything behind that we believe we might need if we can help it-esp when we worked damn hard to get it in the first place. So to me, several retreats across the country make more sense. Not a light undertaking to be sure.

So who do we want in our tribe and how do we determine that?
All the keyboard chatter in the world will not answer the first part of the question. I'm sure all of us here have had to stomach our fair share of "Keyboard Commandos". Anyone with a bit of intelligence can come off as something they're not through a computer. Few will hold up after several Face to Face meetings. The old saying about how a man treats his servants and his pets come to mind. After the warm n fuzzy is felt via the internet, set up a FtF at a neutral location for coffee or perhaps lunch. Much like a blind date. A couple of those go well and progress to a weekend camp out. Again, after a couple of these we begin to see if Mr. Brown sucks to be around before having coffee, doesn't like kids, kicks his dog or always seems to have an excuse for not bringing that cool piece of gear he's always talked about having online. Long before I came to this tree I was a member of another online group. In fact I was an admin for awhile. Back before it lost it's way and started to decline(IMO) it held regional and national camp outs throughout the year. I found these to not only be a lot of fun, it was a GREAT vetting tool. I would suggest that be considered here. Camp with 75 people for 7-10 days and you will get a feel for "who is and who ain't". Many friendships were formed, along with mutual assist agreements between families/smaller groups. The issue of how far to travel/how far someone is willing to travel will largely sort itself out during this process. So now we've separated out the culls and have a group of folks that we believe can and will commit to setting up a larger retreat.

A corporation is a MUST. I've been F'ed over more by family and "friends" than by strangers in my business dealings. Nothing personal, this is just business. It's the business of you and your loved ones survival. This undertaking would represent a sizable investment of your money,time and effort and should be treated as such. Every buying in member would have equal shares or stock and a vote. Officers and/or a BoD should be elected. I would suggest that dues(payable monthly or annually) be collected from the tribe, at least initially. The majority of these funds should be set aside for the corp to use to buy out a departing member's investment. You WILL lose a member(s) sooner or later. Either from the member being at odds with the tribe, or the other way around. A member passes away and the family isn't interested. D-I-V-O-R-C-E.
"I want half Eddie.." If another member(s) of the tribe wishes to buy out the departing member's share, fine, but the corp needs to be able to step up in case that doesn't happen if its going to keep the property intact. Another thing. In the contract it should clearly state that only the corp or members of the corp are eligible for purchase, and that the selling price can be NO greater than the original purchase price plus the ACTUAL costs of any improvements. The member isn't losing money, but he's not "gonna stick it to them @zzh*%#s" either. It's not a bad deal for either side, its insurance for both. After whatever monetary goal set has been reached it would then be up to the membership as to keep collecting dues or not. In this instance group buys are not a bad thing IMO. Group owned equipment such as a tractor with implements, a skid-steer or a backhoe could all find use at a retreat. Or using the funds to rent said equipment as needed.

An on site caretaker(s) is almost a must if the property is going to be anything much more than a place to park an RV or pitch a tent IMO. Which is fine if that's what the members prefer. The planting of fruit-bearing trees/bushes is fine like others have said. Planting of crops is pretty much a waste of seeds if no one is there to care for/harvest IMO. This may not be popular, but I feel work weekends should be mandatory. Take a page from the national guard-one weekend a month and lets say a week during the year. If a member won't give up a small amount of time for this, do you really want them? I know work schedules can be funky, but I can't think of anyone I know that doesn't have two days out of a month they use for something they feel is important . Most everyone has two days off a week. Accommodations could be made for any members who have split days off ect. While it would be best to have as many members as possible together for a WW, commitments could be fulfilled on a singular basis as needed. While every member would have their own "patch o' dirt" the Tribe should have some as well. WW's should split the time spent evenly between improving member's grounds and the Tribe's. The Tribe's grounds probably would/should be somewhat centrally located in relation to the member's personal ground. It would stand to reason that in the beginning much of the work would go to getting a place suitable for the CT to live. Something to consider as well is construction of a "tribal center." Is it needed? Could be handy. A place to conduct tribal meetings, indoor training, potlucks, all kinds of things.Post SHTF could it serve as the operations center/comm shack? If terrain permits, built above a basement that serves as the tribe's bulk ammo/reloading/firearm repair area? Bulk food storage that is harvested from the gardens?

Probably not everyone is going to be able to order up the Acme Do-It-Yourself Survival Retreat Cabin right off the bat. So where do we store the items we really don't want in a shed? Another reason for the tribal center IMO. Once the CT is established and the gardens are growing, what about the harvest? Does the tribe agree to let the CT sell it off as part of their compensation or use it to build their food supply? A food supply that doesn't have to be packed up and carted up to the retreat. I was raised on a cattle ranch, and I remember every fall our fellow ranchers/farmers in the area gathered up at our place to move the cattle and generally get the place ready for the snows. The wives all brought their pressure cookers and their water bath caning gear and set up in/around the house. When the weekend was done we were set and the following weekend it was the next family's turn. Tribe could do the same thing with their garden. The Nurse and I are eating food that we got from her Mum's pantry after she passed away that she caned back in 2010-'11. I would suggest that once the tribe had at least a year of garden goods put up then by all means let the CT use the garden(s) to his/her/their advantage. Any eggs/milk that were produced the CT could sell from the start as there isn't any shelf life for them to speak of. Something else to consider is that a tribe of any size will probably have more property than can be handled by one CT, hence the importance of at least semi-scheduled WW's.

The Tribe should be thankful to have someone(s) who is willing to take on the job of CT. It is a serious commitment. The person(s) needs to have numerous skill sets, not just a working knowledge of, but accomplished skill sets. Pretty much all phases of construction, small farm/ranch experience, fabrication skills, decent equipment(farm/auto) mechanic and probably some I'm not thinking of right now.

Hate to cut this off in mid stream, but it's Christmas morning and I need to collect my thoughts before I post further. Great thread!

Last edited: Dec 26, 2014

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776
"I always believe in being prepared,even when I'm dressed in white tie and tails." Gen. George S. Patton,Jr

The Corporation or Trust owning the raw land and common buildings is something many people just didn't "get". Another issue was with building personal residences, not everyone could commit to building their choice of residence with cash. Financing is possible but requires a 99 year lease and IIRC the controlling Corp. or Trust needed complete ownership of the real estate in order to grant the 99 year lease. I could be wrong on this, I'm not a lawyer and won't pretend to be one either. Laws, statutes and zoning regulations vary from incredibly restrictive to almost non-existent.

"I don't like what I see in the society ...It's too loud. Too colorful. The lack of aesthetics. The crudeness. The inanities. The trivia." The North Pond Hermit
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The Corporation or Trust owning the raw land and common buildings is something many people just didn't "get". Another issue was with building personal residences, not everyone could commit to building their choice of residence with cash. Financing is possible but requires a 99 year lease and IIRC the controlling Corp. or Trust needed complete ownership of the real estate in order to grant the 99 year lease. I could be wrong on this, I'm not a lawyer and won't pretend to be one either. Laws, statutes and zoning regulations vary from incredibly restrictive to almost non-existent.

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I'm not either although I've formed a few LLC's. If we have an attorney(s) out there please chime in. Simply put, you can't legally sell off what you don't own. It's best for the corp to purchase the desired property out right whenever possible. Members/stockholders are using their buy in money to purchase stock in the corp. The corp in turn using that capital to purchase said property. It is now an asset of the corp of which the stock holder owns a certain percentage, ie their parcel of land. Same way a corp can own class III weapons easier than a private owner in many cases (that's how mine are set up)That's over simplifying a bit but you get the idea. Important note: If the property has neighbors in the immediate area it behooves all involved to let them know that the interested parties ARE the corp and explain briefly the how and why of said corp. That stops the small town rumor mills from saying "Wal Mart corp is buying up the land next door for a superstore, we gotta stop this.." As for the reason of the purchase, just a bunch of buddies pulling their scratch to buy their families a safe place to camp...

As a rule, zoning shouldn't be a big deal in rural areas, but definitely something that needs to be checked out along with building codes for said area.

I would submit what I did on some property I have up north.
When I first started, like many, it took all I had to buy the property outright. I bartered my welding/repair services to an excavating company that was an old customer in exchange for the use of a backhoe/dump truck for a weekend. I already knew what log home I was going to order and where I wanted it so placement of the septic system was done first. During another "barter" weekend I set the tank and finished all the backhoe related work for the septic. At the same time I made a pad, covered with gravel and compacted to park my RV on. Now I had a level spot to park within range of my septic system, making set up go that much quicker. I would suggest the tribe doing something similar. Even if it's just one system at first, it can be set up as an RV dump station with a porta john plumbed in for members that are "tenting it".

"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776
"I always believe in being prepared,even when I'm dressed in white tie and tails." Gen. George S. Patton,Jr