Let me withdraw that for the time being and go back to 500 quadruple J, “L. Ron Hubbard and J.W. Parsons”; why did you send me that?

A [Gerry Armstrong] Inside the organization I had come across what were called entheta newspaper articles dealing with or claiming that Hubbard was connected with the OTO, the black magic group.

Hubbard — I had seen at that point a statement which had been published in the — I think it is the London Sun Times which appeared to be a statement from the organization refuting the original claim of a black magic connection. And this was part of a pack of materials which I had while in the port captain’s office dealing with Mr. Hubbard. And it was to be used as proof that Mr. Hubbard was not connected to the black magic group, but in fact had been working for Naval intelligence and had been sent in to break it up because of the number of atomic scientists who were connected to the group, which he did. And he rescued a girl.

Throughout the course of the biography research I found that Mr. Hubbard was not working for Naval intelligence; was, in fact, connected to the OTO, the magic group, and that the head of the group was John W. Parsons who Mr. Hubbard was very much connected to.

This pack concerns John W. Parsons and Allied Enterprises. And Allied Enterprises is a company which Mr. Hubbard, Sarah Northrup, and John W. Parsons formed in, I believe, 1946.

Q And what was the purpose for the company?

A It was a profit-making company, but — they planned at one point to bring sailing vessels from the East Coast to the West Coast and sell them at a profit on the West Coast.

Q And how much money did Mr. Parsons put into the project?

A I recall $10,000, but I don’t — I don’t — it is in this pack of materials, and I would have to refresh my memory.

Q And how much money did Mr. Hubbard put into it?

A I don’t know if he put any in. I do recall a figure of a thousand dollars, and I don’t know if that is from Sarah or from Mr. Hubbard.

Q Now at that point in time was Sarah Jack Parson’s girl friend?

A I — here is what I know of that. I interviewed a man named Lou Goldstone in San Francisco. This would have been in the summer of 1980 and he had been living at that time in the same place, John W. Parsons’ home in Pasadena. It was a very big home and he stayed there, and he said that Sarah, who they then called Betty, was Parsons’ girl friend, and that Hubbard arrived in December of 1945, and within a short time had taken Sarah from Parsons and was living with her first in the house and then in a trailer which was also parked on the property.

Hubbard then had a big trailer. I also know the same story from another man that I interviewed who was a current/head of the OTO in California, a man by the name of Grady McMurtry, and he had the same set of facts.

Q Did Mr. Parsons sue L. Ron Hubbard?

A Yes.

Q And is that lawsuit among the materials in that pack?

A Yes.

Q And why did you send me that?

A Well again it tied into this story of Mr. Hubbard’s involvement with black magic. The significance that this whole thing had to me was not so much his involvement with the black magic, but it had to do with the fact that he lied about his involvement and I had been trained and drilled to lie about it, and that was the significance. I really couldn’t care if he was — what he had done, but the fact that he had just continually lied was what was important to me and this was a part of the picture which showed that the story he had written and he had, in fact, authored the London Sunday Times article, I had the printed article, and I had the same thing in his handwriting.

Q You had his handwritten notes that contained the precise article?

A Yes, and the instructions in which he sent it to be typed up and submitted to the newspaper.

Q Now, in 1946 was that the period that Mr. Hubbard claimed that he was crippled and blinded?