Don't forget the racer sighting on LH3424! That flight departs from Munich at 9.30pm and arrives in Bucharest at 12.25am. There are no air connections between Munich and Salzburg; teams travelled overland to get to Munich. Which is strange - teams should be released morning of the 4th and should have had no problems getting any of Apskip's flights from Salzburg through Vienna to Bucharest. Did a clue send them away to Germany, or was there a weirdly-extended Pit Stop putting teams out of reach of even the last flight (at 6.25pm) from Salzburg?

There's something to occupy teams from the morning till after 5pm of the 4th of November (when there are better flights from both Salzburg and Munich), be it extra tasks or an extended Pit Stop. It winds up with at least some teams travelling overland to Munich.

Travelling through Frankfurt is possible, though on schedule LH3416 (8.45pm departing Frankfurt, 12.05am arriving Bucharest) it saves teams only twenty minutes. From Salzburg, teams could catch OS269 (6.30pm to 7.50pm) to Frankfurt; from Munich, it's LH981 (5.55pm to 7.05pm). This is only if teams miss the respective flights to Vienna for Apskip's flight: OS924 (6.25pm to 7.20pm) for Salzburg and LH6374 (5.15pm to 6.25pm) for Munich.

Another option for teams from Munich is through Brussels: SN2646 leaves Munich at 6.20pm, arrives Brussels 7.50pm. Change for RO374, departing Brussels 8.40pm, arriving Bucharest 12.25am. Once again, this is if teams miss LH981 from Munich to Vienna at 5.55pm. It saves absolutely no time from a direct flight, but maybe the seats were fully booked? Romaniafan's other teams must have got another flight somehow!

I've also looked at OK304 from Prague (arriving Bucharest 12.10am) and KL1361 from Amsterdam (12.30am), but Apskip's options through Vienna always seem the better option, be it from Munich or Salzburg. What could Romaniafan's other teams have come in on? Did TPTB ban Tarom?

I have a feeling that Switzerland to Salzburg is done by ground transportation... Apskip's train-bus-plane itinerary takes around 7 hours. Travelling by train from Locarno to Salzburg takes around 9. Probably worth TPTB to save that bit of money?

Random trivia: TAR has connected through Frankfurt for 10 out of the first 13 seasons, and it looks like the pattern's continuing into TAR14. We should so station a permanent spoiler stake-out there!

« Last Edit: November 08, 2008, 11:11:24 AM by Neobie »

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We know that they arrived at the Pit Stop in a fleet of Mercedes. So I suspect they will start the 3rd leg in those cars. The drive time from Salzburg to Munich is 1.5 hours while driving to Vienna takes 3 hours.

Having worked it backwards from Bucharest I would say that the lead teams opt for driving to Vienna:

I'm a little uncomfortable with driving to two different airports for car drop off so I looked harder at flights out of Salzburg.

Let say they leave from the Salzberg Pit Stop as early as 1 pm

They can take VO 265 leaving at 2:25 pm and arriving at 3:40 pm in Frankfurt or They can take VO 269 leaving at 6:30 pm and arriving at 7:50 pm in FrankfurtThen LH 3416 leaving FRA at 8:50 pm and arriving at 12:10 am in Bucharest

To get the known Munich flight to Bucharest

They can take VO 265 leaving at 2:25 pm and arriving at 3:40 pm in FrankfurtThen LH 978 leaving FRA at 5:20 pm and arriving at 6:15 pm in MunichThen LH 3424 leaving MUC at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am in Bucharest

Let me start with some analysis of the above posts by Chateau and by Neobie. Given the sighting of the German-licensed vehicles, even though Salzburg is right on the border of Germany I doubt that those vehicles were picked up anywhere but Munich airport. The driving mileage to Salzburg from Munich airport (not Munich, which is about 15 miles less) is 85 miles. That means that Chateau's estimate of 1.5 hours will be closer to the schedule of the Lufthansa bus which goes between Munich airport and Salzburg airport, which is 2.5 hours.

Given the cars, flight into Munich from Zurich or Milan-Malpensa is the most likely alternative.

Also, given the cars and the flight schedule from Munich, the route from Salzburg to Bucharest is likely to be driving back to get LH3424 MUC OTP 2120 0025+1. Another possibility is to fly or drive to Vienna airport to connect with the flight VIE BUD connecting with BUD OTP but this arrives at 0125, well after the time frame of the sightings. Frankfurt, Amsterdam, and Brussels don't make much sense as origination points to get to Bucharest. Prague is an outside possiblity, with OK804 2125 0015+1. The rail schedules from Salzburg to Prague are dep.0908 arr.1653 or dep.1134 to arr.1853.

Given the cars, flight into Munich from Zurich or Milan-Malpensa is the most likely alternative.

Apskip, I'm fully confused ! Your 2.5 hour Lufthansa bus look like the best option of them all! I can see them taking that from Salzburg to Munich and catching the known flight to Bucharest at 9:30 pm. They would not have to be released at 1 pm to do that. That bus allows for a later release time. When does it run?

Chateau, I can't leave you confused. The time by car is maybe 90 minutes and that is to a flexible arrival point in Salzburg if a team has the navigational skills. The time by bus is an estimated hour longer and it goes to the Salzburg airport, requiring more time to get to a useful place.

The information on the bus service is:Lufthansa Airport Shuttle Service - a special alternativeIn cooperation with our partner the Salzburger Mietwagen Service (for Innsbruck our partner Four Seasons) the comfortable 8-seater busses travelling to Munich Airport. Reservations including your requested pick-up time are guarantied up to 48 hours prior to departure.

That means it is a flexible departure time, just-call-for-pickup service.

So the Lufthansa bus from Salzburg to Munich is the sure winner for explaining all the evidence we have.

Teams drive their Mercedes from Pit Stop to Salzburg (Mozart) airport arriving at say 5:00 pmSome teams take the Lufthansa bus to Munich, arriving at say 8:30 pmThere they take LH 3424 leaving MUC at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am in Bucharest (this is the known flight)

Some teams fly out from SalzburgThey take VO 269 leaving at 6:30 pm and arriving at 7:50 pm in FrankfurtThen LH 3416 leaving FRA at 8:50 pm and arriving at 12:10 am in Bucharest

That bus really puts it all together. I'm so glad you found it. It even satisfies the comment heard that other people in their group were on an earlier flight (12:10 vs 12:25 am arrival in Bucharest).

So the Lufthansa bus from Salzburg to Munich is the sure winner for explaining all the evidence we have.

Teams drive their Mercedes from Pit Stop to Salzburg (Mozart) airport arriving at say 5:00 pmSome teams take the Lufthansa bus to Munich, arriving at say 8:30 pmThere they take LH 3424 leaving MUC at 9:30 pm and arriving at 12:25 am in Bucharest (this is the known flight)

Some teams fly out from SalzburgThey take VO 269 leaving at 6:30 pm and arriving at 7:50 pm in FrankfurtThen LH 3416 leaving FRA at 8:50 pm and arriving at 12:10 am in Bucharest

That bus really puts it all together. I'm so glad you found it. It even satisfies the comment heard that other people in their group were on an earlier flight (12:10 vs 12:25 am arrival in Bucharest).

Are we sure the teams use their vehicles after the pitstop? The blogger from Salzburg took a photo of all the cars the morning after teams arrived at the pitstop (about 6:30am), and it seems like all the cars were still there

I forgot to mention that in order for flight analysis we have assembled to be valid the Pit Stop had to have been extended. If it was extended and they drive the cars, then the cars would still be there at 6:30 am.

So if it was not extended then we have to find a different flight plan.

But, I can't come up with anything that works with Teams being released before noon.

I forgot to mention that in order for flight analysis we have assembled to be valid the Pit Stop had to have been extended. If it was extended and they drive the cars, then the cars would still be there at 6:30 am.

So if it was not extended then we have to find a different flight plan.

But, I can't come up with anything that works with Teams being released before noon.

Maybe they don't use the cars anymore??

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Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

With sightings or reports for 4 AR14 locations, I am starting a Timeline which will be filled in with tranportation information when I have time to transfer that in. Here is the tentative first AR14 Timeline:

Neobie, I don't see it that way. If teams wanted to go to Interlaken, they would have gone directly (via Zurich) and never have been close to Locarno, so Locarno has to be a pitstop or TBC point. Interlaken by that logic has to be leg 2, not part of leg 1.

This is a total flying time of 22 hours 55 minutes but the only reasonable combination that lands in Seattle early morning as is the tradition of Amazing Race finales. Also note that the International Date Line gives back 24 hours when crossed, so that flight times of about 23 hours translates into an apparent time difference of only 7 hours since there is a 16 hour time zone differential.

apskip, I love the Timeline, it is so handy to keep track of this as we go and this is good.

BUT, I really get confused when speculation is included as fact.

Would it perhaps be possible to color code the locations and perhaps the dates also so we can keep what we KNOW (photo, blog, or other reliable evidence) separate from what is SPEC?

For instance, Shanghai is clearly spec, as people running in a subway do not mean TAR without further proof.

Guilin on the other hand, seems quite reliable even without photos at this point.

And I believe puddin has shown that the Tacoma filming was for a Toyoto commercial, so that remains spec of course. Seattle also remains spec at this point, but may be more likely.

I think that would help keep your Timeline completely reliable.. Just my opinion, of course!

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"I can't speak for production, but I really like that people see us when we're traveling around the world. If you're a fan of the show, ... you're going to be more excited because you want to see what happens." --Phil Keoghan

leg 12 Nov. 22 Note this is also the finish day but crossing the International Date Line resets the calendar by one day.PEK NRT on Air China has several choices:

CA6651/NH956 0845 1305CA925 0930 1350CA167 1350 1750there are two more later but they don't connect with flights for Honolulu

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1.

What I find most interesting is the fit LH457/LH3726 has with the observer comments about seeing 7 teams in Frankfurt Airport the morning of Saturday Nov. 1. I expect no other reason to go to Frankfurt except to connect to Zurich. There are 10 nonstop flights on Saturday between Frankfurt and Zurich, so if any are delayed there are alternatives.

The train schedule from Zurich to Bellinzona to Locarno indicates that 3 1/4 hours is required. Here is is:

Based on the above, it seems more likely that teams flew to Salzburg on Nov. 4. In order to do that the optimal route is to take a train from Interlaken to Bern(somtimes changing first in Spiez) and then change for Bern to Zurich. The trains that fit are:

Nov. 22 leg 12 return from Beijing to U.S. for Finish Line in Hawaii via TokyoPEK NRT on Air China has several choices:CA6651/NH956 0845 1305CA925 0930 1350CA167 1350 1750

Continuing on from Tokyo-Narita to Honolulu (NRT to HNL), there are 9 choices with departures between 645pm and 10pm. With the 6 hours 45 minute flying team and 5 hour time difference, these flights arrive HNL 0630 to 0950. The most logical choice to me would be UA880 NRT HNL 1925 0710+1. All these are same day due to crossing the International Date Line.

Finish Line on which Hawaiian island not known yet although I guess Oahu now for convenience