Mr Howard Hampton (Rainy River): I have a question to the
Minister of Education and Training: Im going to ask you today to protect
some of the students in Ontario who are in the most disadvantaged positions.
We have found that post-secondary students who are deaf or hard of hearing
are no longer going to be covered by the Ministry of Community and Social
Services under vocational rehabilitation services. As a result of Bill
142, theyre now coming over to the Ministry of Education.

Many of these students have to attend specialized private schools
in the United States to get the program they need. The Ministry of Community
and Social Services used to provide them with some grant funding to help
them out, but now that theyre coming under the Ministry of Education they
will qualify only for loan funding. It means that these deaf and hearing-disabled
students will have to run up bills of $28,000 as a result of this change
in policy. Will you help those students out?

Hon David Johnson (Minister of Education and Training):
I will endeavour to investigate this matter. I must confess that Im not
totally aware of all the details, but I will investigate the matter and
see what can be done in this particular instance.

Mr Hampton: Let me help the minister along. This is a quote
from the Common Sense Revolution. It says, "Aid to seniors and the disabled
will not be cut."

I have a letter from a student at the Rochester Institute of Technology,
who writes: "This major cutback hurts me. It has not given me enough time
to plan my future, applying for a student loan or applying to other universities
in Canada. This has put my education in danger. My future is on hold because
of the government cutback. I was told that the decision may happen some
time in the spring, but that does not prepare me to continue my education
at the Rochester Institute of Technology."

The question is very simple: Are you going to totally wipe out
the grants that these deaf and hearing-disabled students used to receive?
Under Bill 142 they dont receive it and under the Ministry of Education
they arent going to receive it. What are you going to do?

Hon David Johnson: Im going to refer it to the Minister
of Community and Social Services.

Hon Janet Ecker (Minister of Community and Social Services):
I apologize to the leader of the third party that I didnt hear the first
part of his question. As he probably will be aware, we are replacing the
current system because of the flaws and difficulties it has in terms of
supporting people with disabilities, not only in income or employment support
but also in the education supports they might well need. That is being
replaced with the new Ontario disability support plan. We are well aware
of the fact that timing, for many individuals, is very crucial, and we
want to ensure that people have the opportunities they need to get the
higher education they would like to receive so they can be financially
independent.

Mr Hampton: No matter how the government tries to confuse
the issue, the nub of it is this: These students used to receive counselling,
education grants and other assistance from the vocational rehabilitation
service branch of the Ministry of Community and Social Services. Bill 142
essentially wipes out the vocational rehabilitation service and wipes out
the services these students used to receive and also wipes out the grants
they used to receive. They are now being told they should apply to the
Ministry of Education and Training. But OSAP simply says, "We do not provide
grants; we provide loans."

Youve essentially taken $28,000 away from these students in terms
of completing their education, and youre going to put them $28,000 in
debt. This is clearly set out in Bill 142. Im asking the government, what
are you going to do? You said you were not going to cut disabled people,
you were not going to cut people who have a tougher time, but clearly you
have.

Hon Mrs Ecker: No, we are not asking them to go into debt.
I really wish the honourable member had paid attention when we were outlining
some of the objectives of our policy. One of the problems with the Vocational
Rehabilitation Services Act and the services and programs that existed
was that in order to get any services, a person with a disability had to
have mandatory counselling, whether they needed it or wanted it. Thats
not fair to them. That was one of the things they asked us to change. Of
course the old program will no longer exist, because its going to be replaced
by a new program that has been designed over the last year in careful consultation
with people with disabilities so that they can get the support they need.