2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look

This is a discussion on 2014 Fiat Punto Evo : A Close Look within The Indian Car Scene, part of the BHP India category; Originally Posted by vsk2009
As a driver my real concern is not 0-100 but 100-0 performance. This is where I ...

- Fiat markets 90 HP as the fastest Indian hatch, but does it really feel like one ? How many customers will pay for just a marketing ad ?

It is NOT the fastest hatch. And I do not recollect Fiat trying to sell using that tag line. IIRC, when 90HP was launched, it came with just a India's powerful hatch decal on the TD car. And come on, you got to be kidding, Fiat is very bad in marketing. Most buys are referrals from current owners.

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- Punto has some really brilliant dynamics. Passengers will be most comfortable, but how many times would there be passengers at the back, considering that Fiat owners are enthusiasts who just love driving ?

I find this pretty amusing. At some point or the other you got to be having passengers in your car, agreed it ain't a deal breaker for few but that doesn't changenthe fact.

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- Coming to ZDI and 90 HP, trust me man, don't ask me how to what makes the Swift feel faster and more chuckable than 90 HP, but it really does.

I definitely agree. When did I ever say it felt faster? I can tell you why.

While I agree that the ZDi is definitely faster off the blocks, I wouldn't quite agree that it keeps up with the 90 on the highways. At the most, the Swift can keep up till 140 kmph. I do highway drives every alternate weekend and this is purely out of my driving experience and scenarios I faced.

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Probably, Fiat are not extracting all of the capabilities the Punto chassis is capable of, like Ford have done on the Figo.

Not probably, it is definitely. The market would have loved a Punto T Jet with a good gearbox.

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I don't hate Fiat as much as I hate Maruti, but I feel that Fiat are either way too lethargic about Indian market or are not giving the Punto what it really deserves.

Very true. Step motherly treatment to the Indian market.

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Noway would a Grand I10 compare to Punto in terms of dynamics but Fiat must really do justice to the badge 'Sport' else totally take it off the Punto.

Not to nitpick, but atleast it ain't an RS version with colored wheelcaps and a few decals. :P

Why is this thread suddenly turned into Punto vs Swift discussion? Also all this Fiat Punto bashing is uncalled for. Not because I own a Punto, but I have driven most of the hatchbacks discussed here and I felt Punto is the right one for me for my own personal reasons. I personally feel Punto is an enthusiast cars for the reasons defined by me and not dictated by someone. I would anyday opt for a car which gives me controlled power surge rather than an uncontrolled one. For me the safety aspects of a car is the final decision maker rather than the one that sells more in the market.

Sure. With a T Jet engine on a Punto, you can get away with a lousy gearbox cause when you put your foot down, power is delivered much faster. It would be almost instantaneous. In comparison, the 90 diesel is a yawn.

The claimed 0-100 is something like 11.5sec on a Linea T Jet. Not fast enough when you read those numbers but experiencing that acceleration from the drivers seat is something else.

I know there isn't a market for a turbo petrol Punto but if made available, it gives us an option which will atleast live up to the Sport tag.

The problem is that most people here are urban, and that is where the punto disappoints, tremendously. When you're driving a car in the city, do you really want to have a 1st and 2nd gear that's lethargic? A gearbox with messed up ratios? Plain and simple, no.

The gearing ratio has been corrected in New Linea to a good extent, and I assume it is corrected for New Punto as well.

I suggest you take a test drive on the new Punto and let us know if it is good enough.

I would anyday opt for a car which gives me controlled power surge rather than an uncontrolled one. For me the safety aspects of a car is the final decision maker rather than the one that sells more in the market.

Absolutely. And why the obsession with 0-100 numbers? 0-40 or 0-60 are much more relevant in city traffic (even on the highway, I'd say) and the Punto's fast enough on that score. That is, you start from when the light turns green and the road ahead is empty, you catch up with traffic in seconds.

A thread on either Punto or Linea has a few references to the all quirks they have and ergonomics they lack. Majority of the posts here are by people who don't own one, so I'll keep it simple.
The stalks are just placed differently, if you've got continuous use of them I guess you'll have you hands on the steering all the time and at close proximity. The issue is that you can turn off the lights off you fingertip grips the grooves on the edge, quite scary at night.
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Originally Posted by rsidd

People may have issues with the gear ratios and power and so on, but to call the ergonomics in the old Punto messed up is nonsense. It is an exceptionally comfortable car for a driver.

Ah. Probably there is an element missing here - finding the right driving position quickly. I could not find it in the Punto even after two test drives. As a test I walked out of a Punto and sat into a Fiesta. Perfect ergonomics. I am 5' 4".
And this has nothing to do with the euro style stalk positions which is simply cost saving measure.
My wife is 5' tall and even when pulling the seat closest to the steering wheel, she was not able to press the clutch pedal completely. Imagine my disappointment when I had money in my hand on my third test drive to discover that. Punto is not suitable for short people and so is the Chevrolet Beat.

All Maruti cars seem to have good driving positions - I don't know how they do it.
Our highway car is the Mitsubishi Cedia and the driving position is spot-on, though the arm rest goes way behind since the seat is pulled way ahead.
So, I am not anti-Fiat or pro-Maruti.

I think the long front nose pushes the pedal placement further away from the driver's seat and that causes this problem.

Mod Note: First & foremost, keep fanboy posts OFF the forum. We will NOT tolerate any biased posts that mislead other members.

Now, back to the discussion:

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Originally Posted by CliffHanger

When you think of long haul(sales and service network expansions, new brands launch) and when you are in the process of resurrecting, lulls are bound to happen, isn't it? Do changes happen overnight?

Absolutely not. We're still waiting for positive changes since nearly 20 years. First, Fiat ties up with Premier. Then it breaks the partnership. It ties up with Tata and again, breaks the ties. In this time of searching & evaluating strategies, other car makers go from strength to strength, relegating Fiat to the bottom of the pile.

Their permanent placement at the absolutely last position in the market says a lot about the strategy (or lack of).

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Isn't the term "enthusiast" subjective?

Completely agreed. For some, enthusiast can mean a slow Jeep (myself included), for others it can mean a 450 BHP modification to a Honda City (BHPian Ford Rocam). My comment was in response to your sweeping statement that Fiats are better than the competition. Sorry, but I disagree with this statement and clearly, 99% of the Indian market finds other hatchbacks better too.

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And as I said earlier, the Punto is still very competitive, while the Linea may not be.

Here's where I disagree. To me, the Linea T-Jet remains the best petrol sedan one can buy. Unlike the awfully slow Punto, the T-Jet actually has performance to match its 'enthusiast' aspirations.

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I think I wrote more than a paragraph mentioning how the reputation is slowly changing

That change in reputation sure doesn't seem to be doing any good for them. I don't see an effect on their sales, despite greatly cutting the price and bringing the Linea to 6 lakhs! Neither the price cut or this supposed improvement of reputation has done anything for them, leading one to believe that the 'change in reputation' is perception only.

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1000s may be running away, but a few hundreds, that is the people who take informed decisions, are still buying Fiat.

True. But there are a 100X that number of people taking 'informed decisions' and buying other hatchbacks too.

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If they think they are not going to survive, they would have packed their bags even before you and I would know.

They're actually surviving only because of their engine business. Ask me if Fiat makes among the best diesel engines available? Yes. The best cars? Far from it.

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investing hundreds of crores on infrastructure expansion

Actually, this statement isn't farther from the truth. Fiat has EXCESS capacity in India and it doesn't need to invest 'hundreds of crores'. The Indian operations are not a priority for Fiat boss Sergio at all. It's not easy to see why. They even cancelled the plans to launch the Jeep brand last year, indefinitely delaying the launch.

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Punto and Linea, though basically have traits that satisfy a lot of enthusiasts,

They're mass market products that have been given the thumbs down by the market, and only appeal to a small number of enthusiasts. In that respect, the VW Polo GTs are far superior.

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Fiat realized what mass market expects is not what they are popular for, that is why they announced that they are going to be targeting a fixed set of customers

Really? When did they announce this? What fixed set of customers are they talking about? Please share a link. I'd love to know more.

Even if true, doesn't look like their targeting is working as the sales numbers remain the same. Good lip service, if actually provided. Heck, the totally niche & highly impractical 2-door Thar outsells Fiats products sometimes.

Or perhaps, they realised they can't compete in the mass market which expects a company to consistently back them, excellent overall quality fit & finish, frequently updated products, premium interiors, stellar reliability, cars that are easy to drive in the city and have a vast service network that remains stable.

For enthusiasts who want a truly quick car with a solid build, good ride & handling, and detest slowcoaches, there's always the VW Polo GT range.

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In any business, can every player be number 1 or 2?

Absolutely not. But you shouldn't be bothered as much with no. 5 or no. 6 as you should when you are continuously LAST.

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda

You seem to be more concerned than Fiat about selling 1000 cars a month.

As someone who closely follows the market and analyses it for India's largest independent source of auto information...yes, I remain very concerned.

...IIRC, when 90HP was launched, it came with just a India's powerful hatch decal on the TD car...

A lost opportunity isn't it? We all would be happy if this was also reasonably fast.

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R

...And come on, you got to be kidding, Fiat is very bad in marketing. Most buys are referrals from current owners...

Very bad I would say. A brand should have more sales from marketing to grow faster.

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Originally Posted by MihirC

...What makes the swift a better car?? The thinner tread, the lighter body the sales figures? ...As no matter how many units it sells it still has or does not have things which you love...

I am confused. So people buy vehicles which they don't love? Sales figures are a sample of how a product matches someone's preference & needs. If Boleros & Swifts are selling in huge numbers, then it means those products are catering to a market/consumers with similar requirements at those price points.

Too much of pure love for the brand. This brand does connect to a whole lot of people in the right way.

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Originally Posted by Rubbertramps

...And even if all issues are sorted, will punto be a segment leader. No. Its always swift. I dont understand this !

That's because in the real world, there are more common people and less enthusiasts. Swift connects & satisfies a high percentage of those common people. And you may also agree that it's a package and NOT a product alone that people look to buy.

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Originally Posted by avira_tk

...Majority of the posts here are by people who don't own one, so I'll keep it simple...

It would be unfair if ONLY owners can comment on those brand of vehicles and related threads. Having driven a Punto (and Linea) multiple times over long journeys, I can definitely chip in with my feedback; the same way others too.

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Originally Posted by rsidd

...Clutch travel is maybe long compared to some other cars, but not severely so, and if you're getting tired by that you're over-using the clutch.....

Sorry mate, you are trying to justify the ergonomic problem here. Nobody uses a clutch for fun; ONLY if they require it.

And I also request you to try some Palios and see how those clutches & gear shifts are, compared to the Punto & Linea.

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Originally Posted by DRIV3R

It is really disheartening to see that few consider the Punto not to be an enthusiast's driver's car!

...But that is no excuse for calling the Punto a non enthusiast's car...

No one has said Punto is NOT an enthusiast's car. Some people have picked another product over this as per their taste. Well, you choose a car which tucks your heart better right? Everyone makes decision that way.

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Originally Posted by riturajsharma19

I have seen many people opine "Once a Fiat, always a Fiat". But after owning a Punto for 3 years, this is what I am forced to say - "Once a Fiat- never again". Now why do I say that? It's the service quality or the lack of it that makes me say that...

I think you are one of those unfortunate guys to go thru the bad times. But in general, I have seen my friends getting good service. There are parts which go bad; Fiat makes up for that with their generous warranty policy.

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Originally Posted by nkrishnap

... When you say serious quality issues, it would be better if you highlight them specifically than make a generic statement...

Oops!

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Driver's seat comes with height adjustment. However, the lever broke off during the media drives. In this image, notice the uneven gap around the horn pad. Fit & finish still not up to the mark:

And FYI, this is a problem right from 2010 I believe. I remember my friend and a fellow bhpian cum Punto owner asking us to be careful on the lever on his brand new Punto Emotion on day 2 of his purchase.

That is for the passenger side Air bag. If you are driving alone mostly, you can disable it.
But, it is advisable to enable it always! Not easy to track if someone is occupying the passenger seat or not...

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Originally Posted by rameshnanda

Switch off for Airbags is provided only for the Passenger side not for the Driver. If you are driving alone, you may deactivate the passenger side Airbag.

Even if there isn't any passenger sitting won't the bags open only if the seat belt is strapped. In that case I am wondering why do we even need this feature when the seat belts act like a switch !!!

I think you are one of those unfortunate guys to go thru the bad times. But in general, I have seen my friends getting good service. There are parts which go bad; Fiat makes up for that with their generous warranty policy.

That post of mine is deleted.
Anyways, the point of my deleted post wasn't merely to highlight the problems that I had faced with my car and Fiat's atrocious response to escalations. Isn't it just pathetic when a manufacturer just doesn't provide a single dealership or service center to an entire state? They even refuse to organise service camps to counter the situation. There is a decent number of Fiat owners here in Assam, the majority of whom had bought their cars from the erstwhile Tata-Fiat dealerships whose presence here was quite extensive. Like the other Fiat owners from Assam, I am clueless on how I am going to maintain my car and where I am going to get spare parts from. As far as warranty is concerned, what's the point when there are no service centers around.

The best part about a FIAT is living with it. Initially you only notice the messed up ergonomics and the sluggish ratios, but over time everything just gels together so well- you end up feeling connected to the car. So much that the Swift ZDi I once so loved and booked seemed like a toy during my recent drive of a friend's car. Same goes with even the Honda city i drove recently. Except for the VW range, almost everything else feels like a chocolate box tin.

This includes my other new Hyundai- the Xcent. For all their qualities, it is not even close to the driving experience of my little FIAT.

But then, these are feelings you develop over time, feelings only owners tend to realise and I feel that's one of the reasons why FIAT owners aggressively defend their cars, more so compared to any other brand.

No one here wins anything by promoting FIAT by 'misleading' readers with fanboy posts.

There is always a reason for every human behaviour, and if FIAT owners tend to become heavy brand supporters despite all these known shortcomings of the brand- there has to be some feeling only the owners tend to realise over time- which makes them so!

@FIAT owners:

I love my car to the core, but if I were in the market for a performance diesel now- I guess I will end up with the GT TDi. The market has moved on, and sadly FIAT has not. Yes, I still consider the Punto has the best exterior + interior design, but it's totally disappointing to see that they haven't introduced the TJet nor the 1.6 MJD with the facelift.

If nothing else could be done, atleast they could have worked on the gear ratios. Life is not about 0-100 runs but it says a lot about the messed up first and second gear when a stock 75bhp swift is able to keep up with a tuned Punto putting out figures close to a 110bhp at the crank.

With all the talk about targeting enthusiast, FIAT had to give it their best. They did a good job with the facelift, but no matter what is being discussed here on the forum, the effort will only be considered as a half hearted approach thanks to the poor gearbox.

Hope they address these concerns atleast before the Avventura gets launched.

There's something about Fiat that elicits extreme emotions from followers as well as haters. There's always a debate between two groups of self-confessed 'enthusiasts'. One that fanatically (matches the dictionary definition of Enthusiast) follows Fiat, and other that loves pulling the brand down.

I recently had a lot of negative experiences with FASS (on the T-jet), almost to the extent that I questioned my decision of purchasing two cars from Fiat. Once the anger subsided, I realised that although the service support isn't great, I can't find a fault in the product. For me, the experience of owning a wonderful product, outweighs the irritation created by FASS.

Since this thread is about Punto, I will focus on it instead of continuing with my take on FASS. I find a lot of exaggeration around Punto's shortcomings. I own a Linea T-jet+ and my wife owns a 75HP Punto MJD. Thus, I am sure I have the experience of the best and worst from Fiat, in terms of performance. Let me share my view on some common points

1. Gear ratio - Yes, it's not ideal but nothing that a decent driver doesn't get used to. It can be irritating during a short test-drive but an owner develops an understanding of the gear-ratios, and makes the necessary adjustment in terms of driving style. OTOH, the short first and second gear were quite useful while coasting on surface like this.

2. Power (the lack of it) - It's not nippy, it's not a go-kart but it's certainly not a slouch. I do find the power lacking but that's because I have been spoilt by the T-jet. It has adequate power for city as well as highway. I have done Delhi-Ahmedabad trip in 14-15 hours, twice. That stretch has many stretches, where one can stretch a leg. I could drive at a very decent speed all day long and overtake cars much more powerful (on papers) than Punto, at will.

There's also an option of remap. So, if you want more power, go for it. FASS is considered to be the most lenient in terms of warranty policies thus, the risk of warranty denied is lesser than with other brands. There are a number of owners on this as well as other forums that are enjoying their remapped cars. In fact, there's a member here that uses his Punto 75 HP for participating in drag races and manages to outrun the Swifts and i20s of the world. <I am not that member>

3. Interior - It has now been fixed and the current interior does match Punto's character very well. Even on our version, the look and feel might not be great but it's aging quite well. I haven't checked the quality of the new interiors and the pics aren't the best way to judge interior quality, so will hold on to my comments about it.

4. Ergonomics - This, I agree should have been improved. The under-thigh support in my Linea is much better than the non-existent under-thigh support in the Punto. Pedal placement is also a bit awkward. The way I manage is - push the seat back, raise the seat a couple of notches from the lowest setting, and recline the seat-back a bit. Have driven for ~1000 KMs in a day and managed to report to office on the following day.

5. Exterior - these are completely subjective. It might appeal to some and not to others.

Bottom line - Punto is meant for people that have a budget of 6-8 lacs, want a hatch-back, love driving (outside of city roads), have patience/'spare car' to deal with FASS, and crazily love their cars.

I have taken it to the

Himalayas

and Arabian Sea

It has never let me down, and there's has been no reliability issue, ever. It's more comfortable than many sedans, and more competent than most hatch-backs. I have absolutely no reservation in recommending a Punto.