10 Faces Behind The Incredible Law School Underemployment Crisis http://www.businessinsider.com/real-stories-behind-the-law-school-crisis-2012-4/comments
en-usWed, 31 Dec 1969 19:00:00 -0500Wed, 13 Dec 2017 22:48:30 -0500Melanie Hickenhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f973df36bb3f7e83c000022moresTue, 24 Apr 2012 19:57:39 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f973df36bb3f7e83c000022
Just stop. Your bitterness and myopia are painfully evident with every new post, and your gross generalizations don't obscure the fact that you don't have even the most basic understanding of law school or our legal system. It's in your own best interest to find something better to do.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f973d75ecad04a34e000016moresTue, 24 Apr 2012 19:55:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f973d75ecad04a34e000016
Untrue by any definition of "profession."http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f973d0feab8ea291500002emoresTue, 24 Apr 2012 19:53:51 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f973d0feab8ea291500002e
Hopefully now, yes. And the current drop in LSAT takers and law school applicants seems to suggest that college graduates are now much more sensitive to the problems with law school.
The problem are those that graduated law school right before, during, or soon after the economy crashed. It's easy to forget that law school was actually a great choice financially before the recession. The ones who finished right before were the easiest to lay off when billables plummeted; those who were in law school or about to start thought (like everyone else did) that the economy would shoot right back up. It didn't. I'm not arguing that they should be coddled or anything like that, just that they were legitimately unlucky and will have to do their best to move forward.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f97359decad044244000005MoresTue, 24 Apr 2012 19:22:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f97359decad044244000005
No, it's because 1) people can and will find every possible avenue with which to exploit each other, and 2) unforseeable things happen. Society needs an orderly way to handle those events. The current structure may be struggling, but it's silly and naive to think that very real disputes that arise every single day that have nothing to do with the behavior of lawyers will miraculously disappear if lawyers stopped practicing.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f94cc456bb3f7127e000016Ania KarwowskaSun, 22 Apr 2012 23:28:05 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f94cc456bb3f7127e000016
Consider alternative venues where you can offer your services. Large legal or management consulting firms often outsource large parts of work - it's called Legal Process Outsourcing (LPO). You start out your recruitment by first offering your services to such firms as an independent contractor. With time, you will have the opportunity to move to a full employment with one of the employers your are working with or, more likely maintain your independent contractor status due to greater control and better work-life balance if this is what you are looking fro as well. One of the sites where as a legal professional you can offer your services is www.HighSkillPro.com. Consider signing up.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f94c06a69bedd836b000017John OgdenSun, 22 Apr 2012 22:37:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f94c06a69bedd836b000017
hey Gilmer, go get a stinkin' job and stop sucking at the government tit. You are sucking money out of the wallets of hard working taxpayers, you sinister witch.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f91dae469bedd523e00001fOliver W Fri, 20 Apr 2012 17:53:40 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f91dae469bedd523e00001f
@llama: The only reason you "need" a lawyer for almost everything you do in this country, as nowhere else in the world, is because lawyers have insinuated themselves in every aspect and every activity of every one of us.
American government : of lawyers, for lawyers, by lawyers.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f91d685ecad046478000025JonasFri, 20 Apr 2012 17:35:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f91d685ecad046478000025
@Trialboy: Something just doesn't add up in your tale.
As for good v bad professionals, for every bad doctor you sue there are a thousand bad lawyers that no one will bother. Not just bad professionally but "bad" as people. The practice of law turns them into cynics and skeptics quickly even if they start out with idealistic dreams. Lawyers, the big powerful ones, the legislatures - mostly lawyers - are responsible for the destruction of this country, they are the ones who make and interpret the law but they won't get caught dead enforcing it.
The legal business is far and away the most corrupt and destructive of all, the entire society is corrupted by it. Lawyers extract hundreds of billions of dollars from the economy for producing nothing and in fact making the lives of the rest of us extremely complicated and difficult. The law has become a profession strictly for the benefit of the lawyers just as finance has become strictly for the benefit of the bankers. Of course they claim that they imporve life and protect us but regardless of what motivates them initially they end up cynical and corrupt to the core when they realise that corruption is everywhere they turn. Kids are attracted to the profession because of the glamour the very word - attorney - projects.
There are more lawyers in California alone than in the rest of the world combined. I am absolutely convinced that this country could function with no more than ten percent of the practicing lawyers, and that life would be vastly improved if the other 90 percent found something else to do.
As for your tale of hardship and travail - I'll take it with a lump of salt; you wouldn't expose your own children to the misery you describe unless you were severely off your rocker.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f91943769bedde22f000005llamaFri, 20 Apr 2012 12:52:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f91943769bedde22f000005
You obviously have little experience in business or real estate, where you need a lawyer to ensure that deals are properly executed. as noted above, shakespeare is correct in that his infamous quote was a compliment to the profession. you kill all the lawyers if you want a hobbesian world of violence and little law.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f919305ecad049c05000038llamaFri, 20 Apr 2012 12:47:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f919305ecad049c05000038
Because only the richest 10% deserve legal representation!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f916b0f69bedd944f000001Have you read Shakespeare?Fri, 20 Apr 2012 09:56:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f916b0f69bedd944f000001
Shakespeare's exact line ''The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers,'' was stated by Dick the Butcher in ''Henry VI,'' Part II, act IV, Scene II, Line 73. Dick the Butcher was a follower of the rebel Jack Cade, who thought that if he disturbed law and order, he could become king. Shakespeare meant it as a compliment to attorneys and judges who instill justice in society.
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/17/nyregion/l-kill-the-lawyers-a-line-misinterpreted-599990.html" target="_blank">http://www.nytimes.com/1990/06/17/nyregion/l-kill-the-lawyers-a-line-misinterpreted-599990.html</a>http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f911c61ecad04401e000020wealthyloving0Fri, 20 Apr 2012 04:20:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f911c61ecad04401e000020
0= c0m......say goodbye to single......you can meet your soulmate i promise......................best wishes to you ...........xzcvcccchttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90b7e1eab8ea325600002cmjeThu, 19 Apr 2012 21:12:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90b7e1eab8ea325600002c
your subjects never mentioned working for the federal govt. The fed govt is the largest employer of lawyers in the US. Also, I graduated from the local Law School in 2001, and a now I am applying that knowledge in job. the Job pays at least 2 the median salary of this state. A typical govt attorney makes between 70,000-$100,000.00 (if you make it to a supervisory legal position). You will not drive the latest Lexus or the latest Mercdedez Benz but will make a solidly middle class job (whatever is left of the middle class).http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90b0b5ecad042f6000002dNell AnvoidThu, 19 Apr 2012 20:41:25 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90b0b5ecad042f6000002d
Sorry, but I'm having trouble even considering the situation to be a "crisis" of any kind. Seems more like a correction to me.
Anytime a specific function mutates into an industry unto itself, its not good for anyone but those who can milk the situation. Certainly not good for society. The financial business is starting to crack...finally...and the ludicrously overpaid money minions will soon have to start living like the rest of us. The aspiring legal eagles are already far along the path to reality.
Cry me a river.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90a8eb69bedd3423000002TrialboyThu, 19 Apr 2012 20:08:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90a8eb69bedd3423000002
There is no question that the cost of a law school education is completely out of control. I have paid the bills so I certainly sympathize with young lawyers burdened with incredible debt. Law School is not for those who lack something else to do for the next three years. In fairness, when I was in law school some folks were going there to avoid the draft or because there were few jobs for college grads in the early seventies. Law School cannot be a lark or a get rich quick scheme. It is however a PhD in problem solving which is a valuable commodity in any economic climate. I read that 50% of the CEO's of the Fortune 500 companies are headed by lawyers. The trick is to find somebody other than yourself to pay for the tuition. On that score my children get an A+.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90a5e46bb3f7d52f000038TrialboyThu, 19 Apr 2012 19:55:16 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90a5e46bb3f7d52f000038
As someone who has had to sue doctors for incredible acts of malpractice I take issue with your assertion that folks like and need doctors. I have represented more than a dozen families with brain damaged children because of doctors who harmed their children. Trust me, I was the only thing between those families and a murdered doctor. Lest you think I hate doctors I do not. Not only is my brother a terrific physician but I have represented many doctors over the years. The fact is that there are good doctors and good lawyers. The patients and the clients like and need good lawyers and doctors, and the bad lawyers and doctors we will set aside for you. But when the bad doctors manage to harm you due to the quality of their care, good luck trying to handle the case on your own, or dealing with a bad lawyer for representation. If you are wrongfully accused of a crime and wrongfully incarcerated by the government, try getting a doctor to help you get out of the slammer.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90991fecad042e3c000059Jessica6Thu, 19 Apr 2012 19:00:47 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90991fecad042e3c000059
I don't know about that - I saw enough of that attitude when I was a student in the early 90s as well.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908eaa69beddc864000023300LWThu, 19 Apr 2012 18:16:10 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908eaa69beddc864000023
Perhaps if they'd gotten a degree in something useful and productive they would have jobs. Maybe something involving math?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908e20eab8eab80300005bColeTamThu, 19 Apr 2012 18:13:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908e20eab8eab80300005b
my best friend's mom makes $79 an hour on the computer. She has been without work for 5 months but last month her pay was $15199 just working on the computer for a few hours. Read more on this site &#x43;ash&#x4C;azy&#x2E;&#x2E;c&#x6F;mhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908db26bb3f7bb0f00001bFarleyHarrietThu, 19 Apr 2012 18:12:02 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908db26bb3f7bb0f00001b
my roomate's step-sister makes $73/hr on the internet. She has been fired for 8 months but last month her income was $12672 just working on the internet for a few hours. Here's the site to read more &#x43;ash&#x4C;azy&#x2E;&#x2E;c&#x6F;mhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908aa469bedddb50000026david friedlanderThu, 19 Apr 2012 17:59:00 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f908aa469bedddb50000026
Unfortunately lawyers are not as good at lying, cheating and stealing to make the money bankers do.
It takes a special type of sociopath to be a banker while destroying other people's lives.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90733569bedd962200003eExcellentThu, 19 Apr 2012 16:19:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90733569bedd962200003e
Sounds like great idea. Hopefully, the next time a 20-something plumber charges me $1,200 for a fix that took him three hours, he will accept legal services in return. How about a will and pre-nup papers for three hour of plumbing? The legal profession is a mess, but why people think they are entitled to receive legal services for next to nothing is beyond my comprehension. It is one thing to say that the unemployed law-school toileteer was scammed, should give up practicing law and find a different field. However, asking him/her to work for peanuts... that is ludicrous and unreasonable.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90717369bedd8e1800004fAndrew CThu, 19 Apr 2012 16:11:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90717369bedd8e1800004f
Most of those interviewed sound like they do not want to be lawyers, so yeah, it's not that shocking that they aren't. If you're wracking up over $100,000 in debt just to postpone life decisions, then obviously it's a terrible choice. If you're actually interested in being a lawyer and competing for the best jobs, then it can still work out pretty well for you.
I think these whiners are the first wave of "little snowflake culture" where everyone is entitled to go to school, get great grades and an emotionally fulfilling, high paying job - if they want it of course. Blame the baby boomer parents who are unwilling to take responsibility for their own actions, much less the actions of their offspring.
We need to get back to the reality that there are winners and losers in life. And if you are unwilling to compete, you just might end up being one of the losers. If you just can't deal with that, there's always government jobs and healthcare....http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f906f9d6bb3f7aa5d000003tom jonesThu, 19 Apr 2012 16:03:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f906f9d6bb3f7aa5d000003
They should go fine other work! Lawyers have screwed this country up, we don't need a whole new group of them trying to save the world while suing everybody into submission!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9065eeeab8ea803500005bFred FlintThu, 19 Apr 2012 15:22:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9065eeeab8ea803500005b
"What they teach you about in law school ... it's not really how things went in real life."
You can edit out the term "law" and the sentence would be universally true.
In every profession, sociopaths coldly work their way into positions of power to distort how things should be. Eventually, sociopaths wear everyone down by persistence and sheer numbers, and everyone gives up and accepts the "reality" of the particular work place. Sometimes, the sociopath makes everyone's work life difficult just for kicks which makes it even sadder.
I have seen it where I work and I work in hospice care.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9065476bb3f76a4300003cJeffTheJeffThu, 19 Apr 2012 15:19:35 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9065476bb3f76a4300003c
I somewhat disagree. A very high percentage of attorneys work in transactional fields - M&A, insurance, corporate practices, compliance, etc. The fact that these students are falling flat on their faces out of law school isn't something to applaud as evidence that "this is as it should be" - it's evidence that the economy isn't rebounding and firms aren't hiring because so many businesses are closing up shop.
Legal employment is a shockingly accurate indicator of economic recovery and economic growth. As long as you see high rates of unemployed new attorneys, expect not to see much in terms of new business growth.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90600269beddb37d000024Mike YThu, 19 Apr 2012 14:57:06 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90600269beddb37d000024
Here's a thought. Everyone I know thinks lawyers are overpaid. There is a market for more affordable law services, espcially to everyday people - small business owners, people buying residential/commercial real estate, couples getting divorced, etc... The guy who started his own practice Andrew Legrand has the right thinking. If your goal in going to law school was to get one these high paying top notch law firm gigs, then you get no sympathy. How about providing your services to the people of your local community. It might not be as high paying but if you build a client base and get enough volume, you'll make a decent living.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f905d4aecad04b957000073Bodine WebThu, 19 Apr 2012 14:45:30 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f905d4aecad04b957000073
The Army wants college educated men and women. And you don't have to wear a tie.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f905410ecad04da4d00002bkimbosliceThu, 19 Apr 2012 14:06:08 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f905410ecad04da4d00002b
Some of these kids didn't get the memo: there are already a gazillion lawyers out there. There are only so many people slipping and falling, crashing their cars, and having bad experiences in hospitals for the army of lawyers to find so they can sue an insurance company.
Some of these people are ugly so I am not surprised no one wants to hire them. Who wants to look at them each day?
Law school doesn't train people for anything useful except to pass the bar exam. Wow. Big fuckin deal.
I have nothing against them however. I have dated a few lawyers myself, so the rich irony is always fun, I will leave what I did to them to your imagination gents.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9053b2eab8ea401500003djunk scienceThu, 19 Apr 2012 14:04:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9053b2eab8ea401500003d
wow i'm most blown away by the guy doing the mba because law didn't pan out. he is doubling down with another obsolete degree. he will end up $250k in debt. jesus dude, go to dentistry school. mbas are in lower demand than lawyers.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90517ceab8eaa21700000fjunk scienceThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:55:08 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90517ceab8eaa21700000f
exactly! and also to understand the massive risk involved in taking on a massive student loan in such a saturated field. a double whammy, but that's high stakes poker for ya
an easy way out - become a lawyer specializing in helping other out-of-work lawyers get out of their student loans! i'm only half joking...http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90509369bedd7258000044YepThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:51:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90509369bedd7258000044
yes you are right
its not like government, or big industry or anyone in the general public would ever punch your ticket, take away your rights, collude, or cause you or your family grief is it?
i mean, if you were OJ you would have just defended yourself, right
you are such a bad -ass dude!
btw, shakespeares quote is about gov't or industry trying to take control over society, to do that you need to rid yourself of the lawyers - so if you like that quote, you must like stalin.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904f7d6bb3f73b27000005Boo Hoo is rightThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:46:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904f7d6bb3f73b27000005
yep you are right
wait until the government or some big business or a drunk drive in a semi trailer tries to punch your, your wifes, your daughters ticket.
on your own youll be such a big man, im sure.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904f1b6bb3f7681900006fit is what it isThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:44:59 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904f1b6bb3f7681900006f
Law is one degree worth getting - you actually learn something useful and it's a pre-requisite to entrance to the profession, like medicine, engineering, dentistry etc
The problem is that there is no get up and go , or they went to schools which have been established in the last decade or so to rake in the dough and not teach the skills necessary, but rather a "thinking mans" law degree, not a 'practicing lawyers' law degree.
With 6 months experience in a firm, any of these kids could network, land another position, start up a firm etc They could all do this, they wont.
The problem with all of them was believing theyd all get 150k on graduation, those jobs are few and far between, you start at the bottom and you find your niche in practice sometimes after 5 or 10 years experience, which is a good thing, because that's how lawyers were trained in the past.
Of course the alternative to this is too few lawyers, which means only Rockefeller could afford them, and people would start taking justice into their own hands. I thought we left that idea back in the 15th Century.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904f006bb3f7501b000057praetercogitansThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:44:32 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904f006bb3f7501b000057
You miss a crucial point. With today's glut of U.S. lawyers, *most* recent graduates will not see payoff day for many, many decades to come. That is, until supply and demand of legal services is rebalanced. This will not happen probably in our lifetime, since law schools will continue their deceptive practices, college graduates are still gullible, and stories like yours abound that hard work will eventually pay off, not immediately, but perhaps eventually. In the meantime, outsourcing of low-level tasks to third-world country, combined with technological improvements, is pushing the legal profession the way of the horseshoer. These days, even doc review jobs got competitive, because law firms can use computer software or pay an Indian $5/h. to sort through documents.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904b81eab8ea9c7c000057Boo HooThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:29:37 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904b81eab8ea9c7c000057
Medicine is like that. You work very hard for a long time before making any money.
The difference is that people LIKE and NEED doctors. The only thing we ever need a lawyer for is to protect us from another lawyer. Nice scam you guys have going. I have no use for any of you.
Shakespeare was right.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904a6d69bedd7d49000016Justin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:25:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904a6d69bedd7d49000016
I am not lying when I write that you're a complete moron.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9049fceab8ea9c7c000047Milton BradleyThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:23:08 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9049fceab8ea9c7c000047
I blame the over-abundance of doctors and lawyers directly on the boardgame "LIFE". If you landed on either of those professions at the beginning of the game, you basically were going to win. On the other hand, those players who opted not to go the "college" route and go directly into business struggled throughout the game with low salaries. A lot of kids think attending college will lead to riches -- but real life is not a boardgame, and if you want to do well, there's more to it than a bachelor's/professional degree and a spin of the wheel.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9049bfeab8ea4f0700001dBoo HooThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:22:07 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9049bfeab8ea4f0700001d
Sounds like you drank the Kool-Aid. For example, when you only tell the part of the story that supports your side then you are lying by ommision.
A lie of ommision is still a lie. Every 4-year-old knows that. It's going to law school that makes you forget it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90498becad04a03b00001eJamesThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:21:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90498becad04a03b00001e
I considered going to law school. But unlike the people mentioned in this article, I actually did my research and concluded that the expense of a law degree was not worth the payoff (or lack thereof). So, here I sit, watching law school tuition skyrocket even higher than it was when I was looking at these schools. The job market for lawyers continues to contract, yet people still flood these schools with applications ... despite the absurd tuition. Part of me feels sorry for these people who are swamped with six-figure debt before they even begin to touch real-life expenses. But the other side of me feels no pity, as these people should have done their research like I did.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904917ecad04c53900002cBoo HooThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:19:19 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904917ecad04c53900002c
Oops, my bad.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9048eeeab8eaa67e00002aJustin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:18:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9048eeeab8eaa67e00002a
Obviously, the people who graduate from the top schools have a much better chance of getting a full-time job. As for your questions, "there are lies, damn lies and statistics."http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90480669bedd9449000020What?Thu, 19 Apr 2012 13:14:46 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90480669bedd9449000020
Who said you have to be smart to graduate law school? They have the lowest IQ's of virtually every profession.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9047e36bb3f7280f000032Justin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:14:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9047e36bb3f7280f000032
I'm not xenophobic. I just detest extreme examples of poor grammar.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9045e269bedd314900000bKCRobThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:05:38 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9045e269bedd314900000b
ah-ah-ah... don't be xenophobic or some hungry lawyer may come after you.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90456becad04c439000001H BogartThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:03:39 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90456becad04c439000001
Regardless of wowjustwow's grammar, it does seems like the top schools continue to tout their graduates' starting salaries. Are their numbers credible? Are there good stats from all schools about the distribution of job offers and starting salaries?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9044c0ecad04b929000047TrialboyThu, 19 Apr 2012 13:00:48 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9044c0ecad04b929000047
When I started practicing law 35 years ago my effective hourly rate of pay was $2.00 per hour as I was required to work 80 hours per week just to learn what I was doing. I was married with two children and every day was a scramble as I had law school bills and other overwhelming expenses. It takes at least ten years of hard work following law school to learn the ropes, establish a clientel and develop a reputation. The hours are long and the pay sucks for a fairly long time. The payoff comes only after the suffering and the effort. The cream however always will rise to the top if the effort is made. I feel for the young folks who must pay their loans, and law school tuition is outrageous--I have put three children through Law School. However, law school was and is an investment for the long term and that investment must be carefully nurtured for a decade following your education. If you are not aware of the level of commitment that you will be required to make in the long term, look elsewhere for a profession. This is what I tell my children, and what I tell their friends in law school. I remember my father regaling me with stories about charging $5.00 fees in the late Forties. I covered hearings for $25 when that was what they could afford to pay. It can be and often is an extremely rewarding profession, but the payoff is not immediate. I often have heard, even back to the Seventies, there are too many lawyers, to which I often replied "Yes, but never enough good ones" All of this law school lack of immediate payoff nonsense is a result of asking the wrong questions. The correct question is, now that I have my law degree do I have what it takes to become a real lawyer? Ask yourself that question first, and only then start bitching and moaning about how you got screwed by your legal educationhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9043daecad04bb29000056Justin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:56:58 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9043daecad04bb29000056
I agree with you. I had a really good GPA (3.72), but I didn't do well on the LSAT. I should have either retaken the LSAT or took a job as a paralegal. Oh well.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904343ecad04a33500000cJustin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:54:27 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f904343ecad04a33500000c
Is English your first language?http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9042e9eab8eab76e00004eJustin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:52:57 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9042e9eab8eab76e00004e
Well, I went to law school. Being taught how to lie would have been more practical than what I was taught.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9042a569beddf63400003eJustin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:51:49 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9042a569beddf63400003e
Gilmer just won't admit that most law firms wouldn't hire her.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90427f69beddf734000052SalThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:51:11 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90427f69beddf734000052
Law degrees for most people are for those who just want to delay the real world.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9042596bb3f7350f00000aJustin PoppitiThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:50:33 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9042596bb3f7350f00000a
I'm a lawyer, and I totally agree with you. For the most part, if you don't go to a top 20 law school (or you're not getting a massive scholarship from a tier 2 school), it's not worth going to law school.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903fc369beddc63400001fJBThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:39:31 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903fc369beddc63400001f
Many law school grads end up working in other areas, but it's been very tough the past few years. Not only because of the recession and/or belt-tightening, but also because of a number of freebie or low rate legal services out there. You may not ever need a $800/hr lawyer, but going super cheap can cause a lot of problems. I've seen several investment deals killed because simple legal issues were never addressed by the startup. Downloading legal firms is a great way to start by generating a draft, but it often helps to have a lawyer discuss and review. If the business is doomed anyways, doesn't matter. But if hoping for success, find a good advisor.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903e3f69beddaf3400000fEvent HorizonThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:33:03 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903e3f69beddaf3400000f
It all starts with the phrase "If you work hard in life you can be whatever you dream". The kids in this country have been told this phrase since they were toddlers.... and now, everyone is surprised that when the kids become adults and start working, real life doesn't resemble much their fantasy world. Shocker!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903defeab8ea6367000051PleaseThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:31:43 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903defeab8ea6367000051
Fordham Law?!? Please... Do yourself a favor. Stay away from it.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903cd86bb3f77b7900004dcitizen1Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:27:04 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903cd86bb3f77b7900004d
HAAAA hahaha ha hahahahahahahahahahaha
facepalm
lmao
rofl
HAHAHAhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903c856bb3f75b79000030Lemi AtterbushThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:25:41 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903c856bb3f75b79000030
If you are smart enough to pass the bar exam and graduate, shouldn't you also be smart enough to read how overlawyered the U.S. is ? I mean, even if you can find a job, there are wayyyyyyy too many lawyers out there for you to command a huge salary right out of school.
Supply and demand. It's the one law that lawyers can't use rhetoric to defeat.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903c36ecad047f23000027ready?Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:24:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903c36ecad047f23000027
1. Why enter into a field of work that has been over-saturated with talent for some time?
2. Just because you have letters after your name doesn't mean you are employable. There are a lot of people out there who have advanced degrees that can't carry on a conversation and would turn off more clients than they would attract. Therefore, no one will hire them.
Sorry, but the liberal mindset of "college degree = job of your dreams (or even just job)" doesn't work in real lifehttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903be7ecad04a52500001dJ RyanThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:23:03 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903be7ecad04a52500001d
Good point. I likewise don't see myself working as Brad Pitt's body double or the starting QB of the NY Giants.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903b986bb3f7ab7b00001bWOOF!Thu, 19 Apr 2012 12:21:44 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903b986bb3f7ab7b00001b
I wouldn't say the girl in the photo is ugly as a dog ... But if Obama invites her over for dinner, she should worry.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903b5deab8ea636700002bwowjustwowThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:20:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903b5deab8ea636700002b
c'mon, only the top law schools are worse it. ie, yale, harvard. These shmucks going to shcools like albany law school has no chance in any market anywhere. Try ask yale law school kids, most of them have 200k plus paying jobs lined up b4 graduation. so no, they shouldn't be count as law school.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903b28eab8ea596700004fnThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:19:52 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903b28eab8ea596700004f
It is atad hard to feel pity for out of work lawyers, maybe BI could do an article on how hard it is for drunk drivers to avoid the police,,,you know, to help me develop my sympathy.
nhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9039d9eab8ea9167000019Joe Nocera LoserThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:14:17 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9039d9eab8ea9167000019
That is an apt comment...I wish more people understood that lawyer = lying. I didn't really appreciate that until one moved in next door. He will say or do anything to get his way while taking responsibility for nothing. You assume that most people are reasonably honest but jeez...lawyers don't care. They've been taught to lie right up until the decision comes down.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90397469bedd0a280000181100ccThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:12:36 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90397469bedd0a28000018
You misspelled "Shakespeare," but other than that I agree with you!http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90396cecad048d23000027MHRobsonThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:12:28 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90396cecad048d23000027
I feel bad that they are unemployed, but not bad that they aren't employed as lawyers. If we got rid of 90% of the current crop of lawyers, it would be just about right.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90396aecad04762300000bjon lawThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:12:26 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90396aecad04762300000b
I'm on trial for murder, that girl is my lawyer. I'm toast.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90386169bedd152800001esegoviaThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:08:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90386169bedd152800001e
From our knowledge and experience we make decisions. Outcomes refuse to be thus tamed.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903851eab8ea8067000002Boo HooThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:07:45 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f903851eab8ea8067000002
Yeah, I'm going to fell sorry for trained liars. That's all law school does. It teaches people to lie to get their way. I have no use for any of them.
Shakespear was right.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9037fe6bb3f7567900002cplate of pieThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:06:22 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9037fe6bb3f7567900002c
There are still a few well rated schools that have evening programs, so you can work and limit your debt load. You're dead tired as a result, but still. I believe Georgetown, Fordham....Fdham as well has NYC, always a big plus.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9037e76bb3f764790000161100cc's evil twinThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:05:59 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9037e76bb3f76479000016
...and as for all those stories about being misled about job opportunities, tell me WHAT school doesn't do that? Colleges and tech schools everywhere drastically overstate the job opportunities for their graduates. It's called marketing. I don't mean to condone the practice but I must say you'd think someone smart enough to graduate law school would also be smart enough to recognize this practice for what it is and not get swept away by expectations for an automatic glamorous job.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9037926bb3f75679000016You might be wrongThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:04:34 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9037926bb3f75679000016
"Gilmer, who says she just doesn't see herself working at a typical law firm job."
Maybe she doesn't see herself working there because she can't get any job offers. I don't see myself working at goldman sachs pulling down $5 million a year, not the kind of corporate culture I want to be in, and ,oh yeah, they have no intention of paying me even 1% of that, either.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90368fecad044f0f00008abill cThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:00:15 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f90368fecad044f0f00008a
There are no guarantees in life. If you were guaranteed a great salary as a lawyer if you graduated froma very average law school, everyone would do it. With every loan, there is risk. People need to take responsibility for their actions. The girl who turned down accounting jobs at "the big 4" to go to law school? your badhttp://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9036816bb3f76379000008J RyanThu, 19 Apr 2012 12:00:01 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9036816bb3f76379000008
Some ask her why she has stuck with her current career path, says Gilmer, who says she just doesn't see herself working at a typical law firm job. "Working in that kind of corporate culture isn't where I want to be," she says. TRANSLATION: with government handouts, I'm able to enjoy a lot of free time and I'd rather have loads of free time and little money than have to work.http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9035c6ecad04c10e00003f1100ccThu, 19 Apr 2012 11:56:54 -0400http://www.businessinsider.com/c/4f9035c6ecad04c10e00003f
I feel bad for the young folks that unwittingly bought an expensive education in a field that's turning out to fail them, but the cold hard fact is that we have entirely too many lawyers already and need NO more. Quite a few less as a matter of fact. Nothing personal gang, but this is as it should be.