sander issues

-- 1 --

Hi All
we are having issues with little sanding circles on some of our finished products its not just coming from one sander as i have found some with the 3/16 and 5/16 sanders.
We use a dust removing vacum and good quality disc's
the problem is not noticed until the stain is applied.
any help would be appreciated.

The dynabrade is an excellent sander, I don't know about the Master Craft.

I'm assuming it's an air powered sander. They do wear out. Especially if you skimp on the oil. The bearings become worn and the RO pattern becomes distorted.

But the likely answer is what Jim said, operator error. It sounds like you are using a vacuum on them which should remove any particles that might cause the swirl marks.

Ask them to slow down. Usually my sanding procedure is go against the grain in 1/3rd steps. Then do a circular pattern overlapping 50% and then with the grain in 1/3rd steps.

If you are only willing to do one of them choose the circular pattern motion. And tell them to change the paper like its free. Over using the paper is a waste of money. Causes more problems then it's worth.

As important as the quality of disc is the type of abrasive, hopefully your using an Aluminum Oxide (open coat) If your using an orbital sander go with @ 3/32 orbit and progress through your grits properly such as 100,120,150 ect; also the type of stain plays a role. if there's dye in the stain solution your more apt to notice those swirls if its a pigmented stain only not so much.....good luck!!

Orbital marks or swirls are a normal part of using random orbit sanders. I have written extensively about methods involving wide belt sanding to try and minimize them, but they are a fact of life.

Go to your local football stadium and plow the field without leaving a furrow.

The best you can do is create a surface that requires as little random orbital sanding as possible and get it done quickly with as little pressure as possible.

A wide belt does the flattening for you so you just remove scratch pattern. You will have very little swirl until you have removed the scratch. Once you are sanding a clean flat plane you are driving the grains into that surface and creating swirls. The more you sand the worse it gets.

If you are relying on your random orbit sander to flatten the surface and stepping down grits, you really can't help but end up with swirls on some level.

A properly maintained sander running 90 psi at the tool, a clean, flat back up pad, and a quality disk help. Use very light pressure and smooth, slow passes on your finishing pass to help minimize them.

Beyond that, hand blocking after random orbital sanding is the only sure way to remove swirls.

I don't have any swirls,
( that I can see anyway)
I go slowly back and forth and final
sand to 180 grit.
I don't remember ever having a problem
as long as I sand past 150.
But all my sanding is with electric RO.

Lots of good advice Thanks !
I will for sure be looking to change the way I am working the sander as I have also been training people and that is now rubbing off on them.
I have been in the wood work industry for 20 Years and feel that sanding has always had room to be improved this is one of our major goals to take the quality of the finished product to the next level as its now my product thats going out the door.
producing a top quality cabinet does take some real skill in the sanding and the spray finish department.

Sometimes the vacuum system, especially if a high powered shop vac, is too powerful and literally sucks the disc down onto the surface and can give swirls (same process/effect as pressing too hard). Happened to me when I got a new, more powerful shop vac.

If you ever watch a TV woodworking show
you'll notice that most times they sand
by going back and forth real fast and long
arcs of travel, that's a guarantee of getting
swirls. Small back and forth distances and
doing it slowly will keep you from getting
swirls, even when pressing harder than
you should. Even the tools directions
point that out.

WOODWEB is a professional industrial woodworking site. Hobbyist and homeowner woodworking questions are inappropriate.

Messages should be kept reasonably short and on topic, relating to the focus of the forum. Responses should relate to the original question.

A valid email return address must be included with each message.

Advertising is inappropriate. The only exceptions are the Classified Ads Exchange, Machinery Exchange, Lumber Exchange, and Job Opportunities and Services Exchange. When posting listings in these areas, review the posting instructions carefully.

Subject lines may be edited for length and clarity.

"Cross posting" is not permitted. Choose the best forum for your question, and post your question at one forum only.

Messages requesting private responses will be removed - Forums are designed to provide information and assistance for all of our visitors. Private response requests are appropriate at WOODWEB's Exchanges and Job Opportunities and Services.

Messages that accuse businesses or individuals of alleged negative actions or behavior are inappropriate since WOODWEB is unable to verify or substantiate the claims.

Posts with the intent of soliciting answers to surveys are not appropriate. Contact WOODWEB for more information on initiating a survey.

Excessive forum participation by an individual upsets the balance of a healthy forum atmosphere. Individuals who excessively post responses containing marginal content will be considered repeat forum abusers.

Responses that initiate or support inappropriate and off-topic discussion of general politics detract from the professional woodworking focus of WOODWEB, and will be removed.

Participants are encouraged to use their real name when posting. Intentionally using another persons name is prohibited, and posts of this nature will be removed at WOODWEB's discretion.

Carefully review your message before clicking on the "Send Message" button - you will not be able to revise the message once it has been sent.

You will be notified of responses to the message(s) you posted via email. Be sure to enter your email address correctly.

WOODWEB's forums are a highly regarded resource for professional woodworkers. Messages and responses that are crafted in a professional and civil manner strengthen this resource. Messages that do not reflect a professional tone reduce the value of our forums.

Messages are inappropriate when their content: is deemed libelous in nature or is based on rumor, fails to meet basic standards of decorum, contains blatant advertising or inappropriate emphasis on self promotion (return to top).

Libel: Posts which defame an individual or organization, or employ a tone which can be viewed as malicious in nature. Words, pictures, or cartoons which expose a person or organization to public hatred, shame, disgrace, or ridicule, or induce an ill opinion of a person or organization, are libelous.

Improper Decorum: Posts which are profane, inciting, disrespectful or uncivil in tone, or maliciously worded. This also includes the venting of unsubstantiated opinions. Such messages do little to illuminate a given topic, and often have the opposite effect. Constructive criticism is acceptable (return to top).

Advertising: The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not an advertising venue. Companies participating in a Forum discussion should provide specific answers to posted questions. WOODWEB suggests that businesses include an appropriately crafted signature in order to identify their company. A well meaning post that seems to be on-topic but contains a product reference may do your business more harm than good in the Forum environment. Forum users may perceive your references to specific products as unsolicited advertising (spam) and consciously avoid your web site or services. A well-crafted signature is an appropriate way to advertise your services that will not offend potential customers. Signatures should be limited to 4-6 lines, and may contain information that identifies the type of business you're in, your URL and email address (return to top).

There are often situations when the original message asks for opinions: "What is the best widget for my type of shop?". To a certain extent, the person posting the message is responsible for including specific questions within the message. An open ended question (like the one above) invites responses that may read as sales pitches. WOODWEB suggests that companies responding to such a question provide detailed and substantive replies rather than responses that read as a one-sided product promotion. It has been WOODWEB's experience that substantive responses are held in higher regard by our readers (return to top).

The staff of WOODWEB assume no responsibility for the accuracy, content, or outcome of any posting transmitted at WOODWEB's Message Boards. Participants should undertake the use of machinery, materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB's Message Boards after considerate evaluation, and at their own risk. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages it deems inappropriate. (return to top)

Forum Posting Form Guidelines

Your Name

The name you enter in this field will be the name that appears with your post or response (return to form).

Your Website

Personal or business website links must point to the author's website. Inappropriate links will be removed without notice, and at WOODWEB's sole discretion. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links it deems inappropriate. (return to form)

E-Mail Address

Your e-mail address will not be publicly viewable. Forum participants will be able to contact you using a contact link (included with your post) that is substituted for your actual address. You must include a valid email address in this field. (return to form)

Subject

Subject may be edited for length and clarity. Subject lines should provide an indication of the content of your post. (return to form)

Thread Related Link and Image Guidelines

Thread Related Links posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should point to locations that provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related Link that directs visitors to an area with inappropriate content will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)

Thread Related File Uploads

Thread Related Files posted at WOODWEB's Forums and Exchanges should provide supporting information for the topic being discussed in the current message thread. Video Files: acceptable video formats are: .MOV .AVI .WMV .MPEG .MPG .FLV .MP4 (Image Upload Tips) If you encounter any difficulty when uploading video files, E-mail WOODWEB for assistance. The purpose of WOODWEB Forums is to provide answers, not to serve as an advertising venue. A Thread Related File that contains inappropriate content will be removed, and uploaded files that are not directly related to the message thread will be removed. WOODWEB reserves the right to delete any messages with links, files, or images it deems inappropriate. (return to form)

The editors, writers, and staff at WOODWEB try to promote safe practices.
What is safe for one woodworker under certain conditions may not be safe
for others in different circumstances. Readers should undertake the use
of materials and methods discussed at WOODWEB after considerate evaluation,
and at their own risk.