What do y'all think - Physical therapists should be called Doc too

With the new regulations, you need to get a DPT degree to be a physical therapist. Also with the new regulations, you need to have a PharmD to be a pharmacist.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

I hope you're not trying to diss the PT profession - I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business.

We just demand the respect we deserve.

Also FYI - the APTA (thats our governing body) is demanding the right to treat a patient without the need for a physician referral. Once that goes through in all the 50 states, then you'll see a huge increase in our prestige, our salary and you'll be the ones calling us eminences

I hope you're not trying to diss the PT profession - I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business.

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Who cares who calls themselves what. By the way, this topic has been beat to death, and coming into the allopathic forum and posting stuff like this is the very definition of trolling. Don't be so quick to get your pecker bent out of shape when you get flamed. FYI.

Who cares who calls themselves what. By the way, this topic has been beat to death, and coming into the allopathic forum and posting stuff like this is the very definition of trolling. Don't be so quick to get your pecker bent out of shape when you get flamed. FYI.

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Wow

Sorry that YOU got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. I thought I remembered mentioning something along the lines of *constructive* ??

And fyi, I don't have a pecker, nor intend to. Get your genders straight, cowboy.

With the new regulations, you need to get a DPT degree to be a physical therapist. Also with the new regulations, you need to have a PharmD to be a pharmacist.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

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Sure, why not? The only problem is that at some point your children will ask you what type of doctor you are, and you will have to go through the long and painfull process of explaining to them that you are actually a masseuse.

I hope you're not trying to diss the PT profession - I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business.

We just demand the respect we deserve.

Also FYI - the APTA (thats our governing body) is demanding the right to treat a patient without the need for a physician referral. Once that goes through in all the 50 states, then you'll see a huge increase in our prestige, our salary and you'll be the ones calling us eminences

not to mention... orthopedics don't usually need a physical therapist to tell them when their patient needs surgery, although I'm sure there are plenty of referrals to PT after surgery if they didn't just do PM & R. Just my two cents.

oh and sure call yourself doctor: PhD's, optometrists, pharmacists, dentists, they all do it and no one seems to care. heck, it's getting to be one of those things I want to call myself less and less since it puts a barrier btw you and your patient.
But, as a side note ... some of your patients who may have preconceived notions of what a doctor is... they may care.
I don't think us folk do.

Sorry that YOU got out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. I thought I remembered mentioning something along the lines of *constructive* ??

And fyi, I don't have a pecker, nor intend to. Get your genders straight, cowboy.

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good to know I guess. It's just easier to come up with euphemisms for the male gender. You may or may not have the noblest of intentions for constructive debate here, but the rest of us are rightfully skeptical of someone with 5 posts starting a thread from an obviously biased point of view on a topic that typically ends in a name-calling lockdown. Call me a prophet, but when post #5 on a given thread includes such epiphanies as, "Dude... I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business," by the OP, well let's just say I don't have much hope for this thread turning out any different than the previous thousand or so comparing MDs to DOs, MDs to PTs, MDs to RNs, etc. Best of luck though.

With the new regulations, you need to get a DPT degree to be a physical therapist. Also with the new regulations, you need to have a PharmD to be a pharmacist.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

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I needed a good laugh today.

I think when the professionals talk to each other they refer to each other by their first names.

With the new regulations, you need to get a DPT degree to be a physical therapist. Also with the new regulations, you need to have a PharmD to be a pharmacist.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

Comments?

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1. unfair? and it's so fair that it's easier to get into a DPT program than an MD program. And it's SOOOOO fair that we have a minimum 3 year internship/residency where we get paid squat and work ridiculous hours a week. And it's SOOOO fair that PhDs actually don't pay tuition and get a stipend. Yea it's all bout fairness... hahaha.

2. OD isn't that easy... there's a lot of physics from what I hear. And it is still 3 years, but they do make bank if they sell their own lenses/glasses.

1. unfair? and it's so fair that it's easier to get into a DPT program than an MD program. And it's SOOOOO fair that we have a minimum 3 year internship/residency where we get paid squat and work ridiculous hours a week. And it's SOOOO fair that PhDs actually don't pay tuition and get a stipend. Yea it's all bout fairness... hahaha.

2. OD isn't that easy... there's a lot of physics from what I hear. And it is still 3 years, but they do make bank if they sell their own lenses/glasses.

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OD school is 4 years, with the 4th year consisting of generally 3 external rotations and 1 internal rotation. Just in case you were dying to know...

It already is spread liberally. call yourself whatever you want, but I would hope, as someone else mentioned that amongst my colleagues they'd call me by first name and I'd do the same. Btw, I am not going to introduce my patients to their physical therapist as their new doctor ... I wouldn't want them to think I'm abandoning my patient!

Don't those 6 years include ugrad work? My understanding was that you could get a pharmD six years out from high school. It's not like you have to do 4 years of college and then 6 years of pharm school. I'm admittedly ignorant about dpt requirements, but I'd be highly surprised if you need 4 + 6 years of post high school academic work. So I think most ODs still go to school longer than you.

Sure, you can be a doctor, but you're not a physician. That's a key distinction.

Sure, why not? The only problem is that at some point your children will ask you what type of doctor you are, and you will have to go through the long and painfull process of explaining to them that you are actually a masseuse.

For me when someone who hasn't attended allo/osteo medschool calls themselves a doctor it is misleading. The term doctor in our society implies a certain knowledge base that those who haven't attended medical school just won't necissarily have. The two years of preclinical study covers the entire human body in its healthy and pathological states as well as pharmocological treatments available. Then there are two further years spent rotating through a required variety of specialties. The term doctor implies that the person has had all off this experience and is working of a certain defined knowledge base. Anyone who went through medical school will be capable of performing certain skills (i.e. suturing, putting in a chest tube etc) to a passable level. Lets say someone is having a health crisis on a plane . . . what do they shout out . . . "is there a doctor on the plane?" . . . will the pharmD or PT be good to have around if the person needs an emergency cricothyrotomy or is giving birth . . . maybe arguably better than a lay person, but not what the person was looking for when they asked for a doctor. Its really not a matter of prestige its a matter of what the term means to the lay public. It doesn't meen we've gone to school for a long time, or that we're special, or that we are in the healthcare field or that we owe the governement alot of money, it means we have had training as a physician and have the basic knowledge and skill set of a physician.

I think that the title Doctor should be used when physicians talk to any of the two professionals above. It is a bit unfair when used only for you guys. If optometrists (ODs) can use the title, we should be able to use it too. PharmD and DPT are much harder degrees to get than ODs.

I hope you're not trying to diss the PT profession - I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business.

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It's ironic that in one post you 'diss' a profession while being sensitive in another post about perceived 'dissing' of your own profession. Show some respect to others before demanding that of yourself. What comes around goes around.

OD school is a graduate professional school and requires a college degree so it's 4 + 3+ 1 = 8 years.

The DPT students at our school do 4 + 3 = 7 years.

It all works out the same, but we (med students) get the better male to female ratio.

Anyone with a doctorate level degree can be called doctor. The problem is that the general public has a specific idea of what a 'doctor' is. They assume an MD is a 'doctor' or perhaps a PhD in an academic setting. I guess it seems kind of silly to want to call yourself a doctor for the sake of calling yourself a doctor. I wouldn't do it in a professional setting where confusion may set in (aka in a hospital). Do it in the appropriate setting such as academia, classroom, or your own clinic. I mean, a lawyer don't go around telling people to call them a 'doctor', especially not in a hospital, but in law school, I think it would be more appropriate. Ditto for DPTs.

And I don't believe orthopedics depend on referrals from PTs. Maybe in the future that will be the case, but for now, I think the two professions are fairly segregated.

I hope you're not trying to diss the PT profession - I hope u realize that without us, orthopods would be outta business.
We just demand the respect we deserve.

Also FYI - the APTA (thats our governing body) is demanding the right to treat a patient without the need for a physician referral. Once that goes through in all the 50 states, then you'll see a huge increase in our prestige, our salary and you'll be the ones calling us eminences

All in good spirit, constructive discussion only

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I don't think you're trolling, and it seems like your a newbie at SDN so you deserve some slack. Still a contentious issue followed by inflammatory comments is the recipe for a good slug fest. Anything which involves "we demand respect/how much respect do we deserve/we deserve the equal respect of doctors" or the equivalent has been done and redone in just about every imaginable way on SDN whether it be DO, OD, DDS, PT, RN, PA, CRNA, RNFA etc etc. So forgive us for the complete lack of interest in a mundane topic which isn't going to change anything. As NonTradMed very insightfully pointed out, "Dr" isn't just a term associated with a degree in the eye of the public.

To go onto an MD student forum, telling them its unfair that they're the only ones called doctors, and asking for comments but getting bent out of shape for one that is at odds with your position does very little to shore up respect and support for the profession that you represent. I've heard this argument so many times its absurd. Respect for a profession is earned, not demanded, and will come with time. If you're as ardent of a supporter of PT as you profess, just do your job and let the product of your work determine the worth of your work. Telling sleep deprived, clinically depressed, exhausted medical students, mired in the most difficult years of their professional lives that they should reshape views which many never had to begin with borders on stupid.

And I also think we need to start calling nurses "doc." What, do you not think they deserve respect? Without them, the hospital would fall apart.

And what about the janitor? Do you really think the hospital would be able to function without housekeeping always available to clean up after patients? They better get the title "doctor" too. Or are you too elitist to agree?

the above posters that suggest PM&R are spot on. in OK the only dpt program is 3 yrs (masters programs are 2 yrs).

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BTW "doctor" is not always synonymous with respect. There are plenty of people who have actually been expected to pay a doctor's bill out-of-pocket who don't hold them in that high of an esteem.

I'm not really in support of anything that makes healthcare more complicated than it needs to be. IMO licensing boards should be "naming" professionals, not schools. DO, MD, PharmD, PhD, AuD, DrPH, whatever. I'm fine with physician, pharmacist, professor, etc. It makes more sense that way.

Sure, why not? The only problem is that at some point your children will ask you what type of doctor you are, and you will have to go through the long and painfull process of explaining to them that you are actually a masseuse.

Sure, why not? The only problem is that at some point your children will ask you what type of doctor you are, and you will have to go through the long and painfull process of explaining to them that you are actually a masseuse.

Sure, why not? The only problem is that at some point your children will ask you what type of doctor you are, and you will have to go through the long and painfull process of explaining to them that you are actually a masseuse.

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I call my masseuse "doctor" all the time. She even uses my Cardiology III to take my blood pressure. I like it when she checks my peripheral pulses, but my favorite part is when she asks me if I have been monitoring my core temperature properly.

Anyone who went through medical school will be capable of performing certain skills (i.e. suturing, putting in a chest tube etc) to a passable level.

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If you believe this then you're in for a surprise by the time you graduate. Upon graduation, a large number of medical students will not be able to perform several skills which you might consider standard, including the ones you metnioned above.

If you believe this then you're in for a surprise by the time you graduate. Upon graduation, a large number of medical students will not be able to perform several skills which you might consider standard, including the ones you metnioned above.

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Wow, we start learning these types of procedures as first years at my school so I just assumed that it was similar in other programs.

I'd say that there's very little likelyhood that these two doctorate (PT's and PharmD's) level professions will cause confusion. You know who you're talking to at the pharmacy. And, ideally, at the PT clinic, they'd be wearing something that says Physical Therapist below their name and Dr or DPT title. That way patients aren't confused, and you know that they're not the orthopod or a physiatrist.

However, it's totally different with the proposed PhD in nursing, where there's a very strong likelyhood that patients may misinterpret those people as MD's or DO's, since they would be practicing in a very similar/the same institutions etc. Personally, I think "Dr. nurse" is a ridiculous idea, and possibly damaging due to it's obvious potential for causing major confusion within the patient community.

This is degree inflation... most midlevel programs are now calling their programs "doctorates." Pretty soon, we'll have doctors of phyisican assisting

It's partly because people like the OP want to create some more respect for their allied health field, but mostly it's so the schools can shake down their students for even more money.

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Having a doctorate level of education in the healthcare fields increases the perceived prestige of the program and inflate people's ego, as well as possibly making more money for the school since they may tack on an extra year of education to get you that doctorate. I believe even medical school is a guilty of this to an extent. Other programs are just catching on and doing the same. Pretty soon, everyone from the janitor on up has to have a doctorate in order to work in a hospital...how's that for confusing the patients!

This is degree inflation... most midlevel programs are now calling their programs "doctorates." Pretty soon, we'll have doctors of phyisican assisting

It's partly because people like the OP want to create some more respect for their allied health field, but mostly it's so the schools can shake down their students for even more money.

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Agreed. In the U.K., chiropractors, physical therapists, pharmacists, osteopaths, podiatrists, and optometrists all earn their credentials via a 4-year (and occasionally a 3-year) undergraduate degree. They are not "doctors" (interestingly, dentists and vets are not called "doctor" either - unless they also have a Ph.D.). The aforementioned professionals are not doctors and British society functions nicely with these dedicated folks. When I first moved to the U.S., I was AMAZED at how many degrees confer the title "doctor" upon graduates. Maybe the massive cost of tuition urged schools to hand out titles to make it all seem worthwhile. Just a thought......

For some strange reason everyone wants to be like a physician even when they are not. I have 100 bucks that says if physicians change their title from "doctor" to "biatch", there will be some therapist/nurse/pharmacist screaming "Hey I wanna be a biatch too".

I call my masseuse "doctor" all the time. She even uses my Cardiology III to take my blood pressure. I like it when she checks my peripheral pulses, but my favorite part is when she asks me if I have been monitoring my core temperature properly.

Wow, we start learning these types of procedures as first years at my school so I just assumed that it was similar in other programs.

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Doing procedures on the dead or models is different than doing them on the living. There are 4th years at your school and every school who if told to put a chest tube in a patient would say, "HELP!!!" These would be the students who are not going into surgery or the surgical subspecialties. Actually, when I was in Houston doing my surgery rotation, some of the interns even had trouble placing them.

You can call yourself whatever you want and tell your patients whatever you like. However, the fact is that the general public see a "Dr." as a medical doctor who is able to treat them beyond the level of a massage and stretching techniques. I am not saying that what you do does not deserve respect and is not necessary or difficult, but you are as much of a traditional Dr. as an optometrist, chiropractor, etc... If someone on a plane asks for a doctor to help a dying man will you stand up to save them? Or when a person in a restaruant asks for a doctor to help a man who is having a heart attack- will you be the first one to stand- because i gurantee you that most of the chiropractors, optometrists, etc.. will remain seated, yet they are "Dr.'s also.
In a matter of collegiate achievement- yes you are a Dr. To the majoriry of the general public you are not. To your colleagues you are hopefully Bob or Jane, etc...
But, if it makes you feel better and sleep better at night and more secure with your career decision- then you can share the Dr. term.

For some strange reason everyone wants to be like a physician even when they are not. I have 100 bucks that says if physicians change their title from "doctor" to "biatch", there will be some therapist/nurse/pharmacist screaming "Hey I wanna be a biatch too".

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