Stop being bitching about it on an internet forum and get yourself a free battery from Apple. As or lying, I have to think your comment is a lie as an expanding battery is a fire hazard, has 300 to 1000 cycle doubt before it will only charge to 80% and therefor are replaced with very little effort from a consumer who expresses that.

Haha, love "cretins law"

And yet somehow I am always sucked into the vortex of degrading conversation.

(i) Installation, removal or disposal of the Covered Equipment, or installation, removal, repair, or maintenance of non-Covered Equipment (including accessories, attachments, or other devices such as external modems) or electrical service external to the Covered Equipment;

(ii) Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident, abuse, neglect, misuse (including faulty installation, repair, or maintenance by anyone other than Apple or an Apple Authorized Service Provider),

this is the part you have to be aware of "Damage to the Covered Equipment caused by accident"

in other words, don't drop a phone made of glass!

Sorry, my mistake.

either way my 'local apple store' didn't seem to care and gave me a replacement phone a few months back despite that it was caused by accidental damage.

This is not the case any more. The largest drop with 4.0.1 is two bars.

Because in real life people don't hold their phones with one finger.

Here here! Who cares if it's one finger or your whole hand? You hold the phone with your HAND, so if it's your palm, your finger or whatever blocking the antenna, the issue is the same. I actually find shifting one finger a tiny distance easier than moving my palm to another part of the phone.

I don't know why I give in to this arguing. Clearly it's an issue for a small percentage of people. It's not for me, or millions of other users. Return the phone and stop whining. Apple made a decision in their phone construction. Enjoy it or don't. It's that simple. It really is. Companies make decisions every day that enhance parts of their products, sometimes at the expense of others. It's the way things work. Nothings going to be predict, ever, so stop acting like kits the end of the world, or be prepared to act that way the rest of your life.

This is not the case any more. The largest drop with 4.0.1 is two bars.

Yeah, we're back to the bars displayed under iPhone OS 2.1 and earlier. Apple was criticized upon release of 2.2 in the summer of '08 for having artificially increased the number of bars to make AT&T's coverage look better. So much for Apple's now being "stunned" by a bars "bug".

Here here! Who cares if it's one finger or your whole hand? You hold the phone with your HAND, so if it's your palm, your finger or whatever blocking the antenna, the issue is the same. I actually find shifting one finger a tiny distance easier than moving my palm to another part of the phone.

I don't know why I give in to this arguing. Clearly it's an issue for a small percentage of people. It's not for me, or millions of other users. Return the phone and stop whining. Apple made a decision in their phone construction. Enjoy it or don't. It's that simple. It really is. Companies make decisions every day that enhance parts of their products, sometimes at the expense of others. It's the way things work. Nothings going to be predict, ever, so stop acting like kits the end of the world, or be prepared to act that way the rest of your life.

I had that problem four days after I got my iPhone 4. I opened my car door and my phone slid out of my pocket and landed on my drive way and basically shattered the back. I called apple and they told me I would have to pay 199 to get a replacement. So the following Saturday I went to the apple store to throw a stink when they were busy but I ended up not having to. I was in the middle of telling them what happened when the genius interrupted me and just said they will replace it no questions asked. Im pretty happy with their response.

I had a similar experience with Apple's Genius Bar. My MacBook was having issues with the display. It was 45 days past the 1-year warranty. Apple waived the "standard" $275 maintenance fee and I had the repaired MacBook mailed to my house in 3 business days. Apple takes care of their customers. So I'm not surprised by your story.

Yeah, we're back to the bars displayed under iPhone OS 2.1 and earlier. Apple was criticized upon release of 2.2 in the summer of '08 for having artificially increased the number of bars to make AT&T's coverage look better. So much for Apple's now being "stunned" by a bars "bug".

I do agree with you that this misrepresentation of the bars was intentional by Apple to make AT&T looks better but this is another issue. Right now the iPhone 4 doesn't drop 5 bars at once.

Interesting poll today in our national rag has the iPhone as the coolest thing on the planet. Apple at no.2 and iPod as no.4.

And all this despite the hysteria.

These phone videos on Apples website just make those that are trying to kill the iPhone look really stupid.

Slightly off thread: I have been trying vodafone sim only on the ip4 and decided after 20 or so days it wasn't for me. Went to the store to cancel and the automaton behind the counter went straight into iPhone bashing mode.

When I tried to explain the reason I wanted to cancel was due to the Vodafone network being weak in my area he immediately advised me to visit the apple website and apply for a bumper. When I showed him the iPhone already had a bumper he shut up. I then went on to say I haven't dropped a call but found surfing the net at home poor on Vodafone but great at work 25 miles up the road. That's why Im sticking with 02.

I was astonished that the carriers are jumping on the antenna hysteria even though they sell the iPhone. It's like they're trained to protect the network coverage at all costs.

A reputation is not built upon the restful domain of one's comfort zone; it is made out of stalwart exposition of your core beliefs, for all challenges to disprove them as irrelevant hubris.- Berp...

I do agree with you that this misrepresentation of the bars was intentional by Apple to make AT&T looks better but this is another issue. Right now the iPhone 4 doesn't drop 5 bars at once.

Yes, aside from Apple's honesty and forthrightness, the real issue is the magnitude of the signal attenuation, which is unchanged in iOS 4.0.1, because it's a hardware/design problem. The iPhone 4 is perhaps worst in class for attenuation, and it is more of an issue because a mere touch of a finger is all that's required.

Yes, the real issue is the magnitude of the signal attenuation, which is unchanged in iOS 4.0.1. The iPhone 4 is perhaps worst in class in this area and is more of an issue because a finger touch is all that's required.

I wouldn't call it worst in class and a touch by a finger is again irrelevant in real life.

Yes, aside from Apple's honesty and forthrightness, the real issue is the magnitude of the signal attenuation, which is unchanged in iOS 4.0.1, because it's a hardware/design problem. The iPhone 4 is perhaps worst in class for attenuation, and it is more of an issue because a mere touch of a finger is all that's required.

Broken record...

It's "worse in class" in a problem that occurs a fraction of the time and rarely even results in dropping a call and can be fixed by buying a bumper or shifting your finger. Meanwhile, it outclasses other phones in almost every other arena. Like I said before, a gain in most areas at the expense of a tiny one.

I've noticed people here trying to make an issue out of the glass used in iPhone 4. Pleas give it a rest.

First i've dropped my 3G several times on concrete and have had no issues. That is without a case. A friend dropped hers once and completely shattered the glass.

Glass is a funny thing but in the case of iPhone 4 we are not dealling with ordinary glass. If the glass does become an issue it would be worth a discussion, but there is little evidence that it is a problem. So can it, the last thing we need is another baseless problem for the media to focus on.

There is one bit of logic that no one can deny. Apple is the only one getting bad press regarding this issue. Apple is the only one that had to hold a press conference and then give something away to attempt to make the problem better. HTC, Motorola, Google have not had to say a word when it comes to their own products.

Bad press is nothing new for Apple. Superior craftsmanship and innovating ideas are most often incomprehensible to those being threatened by them.

The idea for Apple is to get a handle on the noise machine and steer it little by little, piece by piece toward a product that is music to the ear of the end user.

Sometimes, like antenna gate, the process is reversed; music to the ear of the end user exerts a natural dampening effect on hysterical, self-serving noise artifacts. And a free case to seal the noise out of the deal. For good.

But both processes can't begin to address the endemic self-perpetuating raucous of the layman's whining fest.

Yes, correct. It's a light touch (reproducible with a single finger) rather than some kind of hard grip that causes problems with some iPhone 4 units.

This is the difference between the iPhone 4 and other phones.

And yet, Apple and others are still posting video after video showing someone purposefully gripping onto phones tight in order to show dropped bars. That's not the issue that was originally reported at all!

Well I can't speak for you of course but I for one intend to hold my phone in such a manner as to have a firm grip on it so I don't drop it. I can't buy insurance on this phone through AT&T to cover such a loss so I have to be careful with it. A dainty hold on such an expensive phone is not something I feel comfortable with.

If Motorola follows the crowd, they'll squawk at Apple for having slammed them with this. As have all the others.

But where were they when all the slings and arrows were landing on Apple's head? The industry as a whole has shown how easy it is to live in denial. Then slam any industry participant that dares to reveal an industry family secret.

Seriously folks the issue with the various death grips should not surprise anybody. All one needs to do is watch the little dances people do in low signal areas to get a connection. It is so common people don't realize that they are actively seeking to optimize antenna performance.

As to touching the seam that is a separte issue as has already been pointed out. The thing here is the user has some responsibility to uses his %}{{^~ brains. I'm sorry folks but if you have come to the realization that touching the insullator affects reception, in your area, you have the responsibility and freedom to stop doing that.

This can be likened to the guy that buys a power saw and touches the blade realizing it is sharp. He then takes this sharp power saw and cuts wood with it, which again should cause one to think this cuts quickly. If this person after all of this cuts off his finger is it really the manufactures fault. A product liability lawyer will go out of his way to prove the case that it is. But from the perspective of the average person if you do something stupid who is to blame. The same could be said for yhose buying dirt bikes, which by the way can be fun. But we all know the guy that cant seem to control himself and ends up taking a trip to the hospital. We dont blame the motorcycle manufacture here do we?

Yet here with iPhone 4 we have people insisting that it is Apples fault that something bad happens when that insullator is touched. Sadly this is after people have learned that doing so causes problems in their location. Again to use motorcycles as an example it is like somebody grabbing a hot muffler and then blaming Harley or Honda for getting burned. If you know of a hot spot you should really avoid touching it.

Dave

well thought out post.

Apple did nothing wrong at all
yet fires still rage all around this non issue .

The real issue here is.
Will apple thru the 3g 4g/7g world become the new defacto gatekeeper for free video calls ??
Included on all future devices ???
I mean all of them ...
including the nano !!!

So this is what Apple has come to? Help people feel good about their purchase because other companies have the same problem? Post videos of other companies phones with similar issues? I never thought Apple would stoop to this level.

It really doesn't matter at this point because Apple is the only one get continuous bad press related to this subject.

True, but that’s why they are on the defensive here, to show they are not alone.

None of that really matters as they have been beaten by the media since day one about iPhone reception and call issues yet continue to be the most profitable, highest selling single unit smartphone maker on the planet. There isn’t a handset vendor in the world that wouldn’t change places with Apple on its worse day right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NasserAE

I do agree with you that this misrepresentation of the bars was intentional by Apple to make AT&T looks better but this is another issue. Right now the iPhone 4 doesn't drop 5 bars at once.

For the sake of accuracy, there can’t be a misrepresentation of signal strength since the bars are not defined and are virtually meaningless.

I vote for a removal of the bars altogether with a simple listing of the best service available to you. Since decibel will give a numeric value to a user, but not assist them in understanding, maybe also add a green signal indicator that indicate a good signal from −51 dB to −107 dB, and after that go to an amber one to indicate one on the cusp of useful signal strength. For once I’d like there to be regulation on this as it’s finally been shown to be a pointless metric. Too bad Apple didn’t think outside the box with the bars for the 1st iPhone.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe hs

99.45%

To be fair, 0.55% was the number of AppleCare calls compared to number of iPhone 4’s sold. Even though this issue only affected a few people and clearly was blown out of proportion by “chicken littles” Apple surely used the best metric they could find to prove their point… as any good company should.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

I wonder why people who don't own an iPhone 4, never will own one and can't imagine anyone else owning one still find time to come to an apple fan site to tell everyone how much they hate the iphone 4 because of it's supposed antennae problems? Is it because you hate Steve Jobs or the Apple company or you just hate in general. Please, we get it. The millions of people who own the phone and the millions of people who will get one (include me in that bunch) get it. You hate Apple and everything they stand for.

For those of you still having antennae problems, either take the phone back for a full refund or get a cover. It's that simple. But if you just like coming here just to get people all upset over this ridiculous argument about a thin line on an antennae, count me out. I'v had it with this arguing for argument sake. Please, just move on. Nothing more to see here.

TFor the sake of accuracy, there can’t be a misrepresentation of signal strength since the bars are not defined and are virtually meaningless.

I vote for a removal of the bars altogether with a simple listing of the best service available to you. Since decibel will give a numeric value to a user, but not assist them in understanding, maybe also add a green signal indicator that indicate a good signal from −51 dB to −107 dB, and after that go to an amber one to indicate one on the cusp of useful signal strength. For once I’d like there to be regulation on this as it’s finally been shown to be a pointless metric. Too bad Apple didn’t think outside the box with the bars for the 1st iPhone.

Well, if 5 bars means full service and 0 bars means no service logic say that each bar represent 20% strength segment. Graphical representation should be logical and easy to understand otherwise it will be pointless. The current bars representation is more accurate representation of actual signal strength.

Well, if 5 bars means full service and 0 bars means no service logic say that each bar represent 20% strength segment. Graphical representation should be logical and easy to understand otherwise it will be pointless. The current bars representation is logical.

But even with v4.0.1 the bars arent represented with each bar representing a 20% increase with each new bar, and sense this is RF it seems like a pointless way to represent bars. The only thing they show is more bars equals greater signal strength than lower bars, and vice versa, for the bars represented on that platform.

As weve seen, you cant look at two different phones with different OSes and determine which one has a stronger signal or is likely to make a better connection based on the number of bars. To complicate things further, there is evidence to suggest that Apples iPhone 4 design is allowing for connections to be made when other phones wont even when measuring dB levels so even that metric cant be used in and of itself.

edit: Let me also put this another way

Under v4.0.1 if I have 5 bars but at the low end with 76 dB does that really say I have full strength? If having less than 5 bars doesnt mean I will get less service in terms of my ability to make a call or connect to high speed data then how is 3 bars not full service if there is no lessening of the service? How it anything less than 51 dB to be considered full service

I really hope Apple changes the game on this because they really dont mean anything. Just give me the network type if I have a viable connection.

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.

This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.

Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.

This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.

Your post makes me think of The Fox and the Grapes.

Quote:

Driven by hunger, a fox tried to reach some grapes hanging high on the vine but was unable to, although she leaped with all her strength. As she went away, the fox remarked, 'Oh, you aren't even ripe yet! I don't need any sour grapes.' People who speak disparagingly of things that they cannot attain would do well to apply this story to themselves

Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"

Um... regardless of how few users drop calls on iPhone 4, the stink here is how Apple is misrepresenting the issue: they're implying that other manufacturers' attenuation problems equate to iPhone 4's detuning problem.

Perhaps, but getting cancer on the tongue is pretty odd. Why there? Especially for a non smoker. But like you said, no one knows. I use the ear piece anyway, to be on the safe side. And I dislike holding the phone to my ear.

On this, we agree. I don't know for a fact that cell phones held close to the face cause anything. But it just seems prudent to avoid it if you can. I routinely use the speakerphone whenever possible just to be on the safe side. If this proves to be pointless by future research, it didn't cost me anything because I kinda like speaking more freely with the phone not stuck to my face. I often just sit it on my desk. In the car, I use my Jawbone.

Um... regardless of how few users drop calls on iPhone 4, the stink here is how Apple is misrepresenting the issue: they're implying that other manufacturers' attenuation problems equate to iPhone 4's detuning problem.

I don't agree with your statement above (or at least I think it's a bit overly dramatic and misleading), but thanks for the link. The information there is a bit all over the place and asks more questions than it gives answers, but kudos for even *hinting* at new facts.

I'm especially pleased to know that (reading between the lines), *fat* people have a larger attenuating affect on a cell phone antenna than regular folks. It's been obvious to me for some time that the effects seen on iPhone 4 don't happen to everyone and I've been curious to try and find out what the factors are. It seems that Apple at least, has figured out the relevant criteria to the point that they can make almost any phone lose signal bars.

- Clearly, due to the way the bars are calculated, all the phones in Apple's videos need to be in weak signal areas (they almost all start on the edge of three bars and drop to one or none).

- Clearly as well, sweaty hands has little or nothing to do with it since some of the antennas are internal and some are not.

- Now we know that people with a high BMI (basically more water in the body) are able to attenuate the signal more, and are thus likely to experience the effect more often or at least to a larger degree.

I have also thought for a while that since the problem is much less pronounced (almost non-existent in fact), *outside* of the USA, that the particular type of hardware or technology used n the signal towers themselves might be at issue as well, but we don't know anything like that for sure.

The thing I find most remarkable about this whole thing is that here we are weeks later and *still* this is the closest we can come to actual facts. It's amazing to me that some person or organisation hasn't stepped up with a full explanation.

"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."

This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.

For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.

Why are people paying for a $600 phone anyway? My $50 Virgin Mobile phone using Sprint service works anyway I hold it. Apple really blew it when the iPhone 4. They didn't fully test this thing with users. I think they assumed it would work fine however it was held, so they pushed it through to manufacturing.

This is really a disappointment for a company with a reputation of producing allegedly superior products that are well designed in every way.

Thanks for the advice. Your comments convinced me that my years of using excellent Apple products have been a figment of my imagination. Too bad the iPhone facts don't back up your claims.

But, for your sake, I am happy you have a choice of phones and carriers.

"We've re-thought the whole antenna thing, and putting it on the outside has both benefits and deficits. We believe the former outweigh the latter. Some may notice an interesting phenomenon that when you bridge the gap between the two antennas with your finder or hand that there may be a small drop in bar indication. In a normal signal strength area this should not have any detrimental effect. If you are in a low signal strength area, it might. But again, this design allows for greater signal strength in most conditions most of the time. On the plus side the outside antenna on the iPhone 4 yields a clear improvement in overall performance over its predecessor, and we believe it is the best smartphone on the market."

This kind of unambiguous statement would have done much to "attenuate" criticism. Buyers would know up front what the characteristics of this model are, and could judge for themselves whether their real world experience is better or worse than before. I can understand why he didn't make this statement at the time the phone was released. Probably assumed people would figure this out for themselves. Also, it just goes against all normal business practice to point out any potentially negative characteristic of a newly released product. But again, in hindsight, it would have been better. Some people would have still not been pleased, but I think much of the reaction was fueled by the belief that Apple was trying to slip something past buyers.

For the record, I can make the one or two bars drop by bridging the gap, but it doesn't seem to cause me any actual performance problems that I am aware of. Took my case off to experiment.

If only Americans were so rational! I wish people could tell the truth an make people happy. Americans want drama, sensational stories and people to complain about.

Why should they post more info on the favorite and rarely important signal attenuation issue with the iPhone. The unknowing masses spurred on by Applr haters have made it the mlost important thing on the net for days. Other phones havethe same or similar problems. That's all that is being shown. Guess Apple can take the heat and others can't,

Quote:

Originally Posted by anantksundaram

Why should they. It would be redundant. Most of the folks caterwauling here seem to witness it all the time.