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Here's the question. Weigh in if you care, even atheists. In the bible passage that says God created man in his own image...was our human body shell, which holds the soul, created in the image of God or was it the soul, inside the shell, which was created in the image of God?

This is what happens when I have spare time on my hands. I need to keep busier...

atheists, by definition, don't really care nor think about the movtives/actions of other people's imaginary friend in the sky.

however my baptist upbringing tells me to say that it's the soul created in God's likeness of course. how else can one explain being made in "god's image" when some are yellow, some pink, some brown, some black, some with breasts, some with penises, some with deformities. Of course, the Bible didn't mean the outward appearance - otherwise that would be pretty horrific-looking god and all of us wouldn't look like him but only a portion of him.

Yes, I happen to "believe" or have "faith." Aside from too much time on my hands...part of the question relates to the fact that God is always given a human form in religious art...or 99.9% of the time. I wondered how that squared with the idea that the image of God might be our soul and not our bodies.

Anyway, appreciate the comments...I knew not everyone would answer seriously...well, that might not be the best word for it...I expected answers to reflect a range of beliefs and no beliefs. Who could ask for more!

art though is man's expression of how god must look. artists portrayed him as a white male, while that might not necessarily be the image of god (if Jehovah actually exists and exists on our plane of reality). I'm sure it was much easier to paint a beneficent-looking aged old man (which would imply wealth and extreme health to those in ages past who died before even reaching 40) than a glob of energy or an invisible-to-the-eye spirit. Of course Jesus is painted as a nice white European man with a brown beard and the Holy Spirit is a dove or flicker of fire. I'm sure none of those are accurate portrayals of those entities either

but really how does one many an artistic representation of a Trinity god? for all we know either the giant disembodied-hand writing on the wall or the burning non-consumed bush is the true representation of god.

or maybe the best representation would be the glorious shiny ass he let Moses see Heaven knows I've see a few asses that made me think I was seeing god.

There are problems in this discussion -- first the OP states something from the Bible but then seems to invite those from other belieft systems, or non-belief to comment, and I'm left wondering if this is the depiction of the Christian divinity in religious art, or the depiction of same in religious art of other beliefs. God(s) obviously have taken on non-human forms in the myriad religions since people began having any formalized belief system.

That said, it is inaccurate to state that God in the Christian sense has always been portrayed in human form. For the first thousand years God was, in fact, avoided by painters in being portrayed like that due to several scriptural passages (most likely similar to ones in Islam and I also think Jewis). Only the "hand of God" was depicted in early Christian art (emerging from a cloud, etc.) and this was adopted from Jewish depictions. So, it was generally Jesus that was depicted -- and in that you get into the whole question of consubstantiality in early Christian theology, etc., and probably above my pay grade. As in a depiction of Jesus is a depiction of the Son of Man, not God the Father and obviously not the Holy Spirit.

The question was concerning whether the soul or the human form were created in the image of God per the Bible. The matter of art came into the discussion because a fair amount of religiously oriented art depicts God in human form (interesting about the first thousand years of hand only...still...even the hand as depicted has been in human form). Yes, one could throw in the item about God being God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but that I think gets beyond the original scope of the question.

I didn't want to limit the discussion to only people who say they're Christians. There are many people of other beliefs and of no beliefs who have explored the meanings in the Bible as well as other religious texts. You can learn a lot when you allow yourself to listen to other opinions. Listening doesn't mean you agree. I think it allows you to better understand your own beliefs.

Yes, one could throw in the item about God being God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit but that I think gets beyond the original scope of the question.

No, not at all. It's completely relevant. Are you talking about depictions of God the Father in Christian art, or of Jesus? You were not clear at the beginning of the thread, and I am still not clear now even after your last rambling post.

ps: you'd get more responses to a non-HIV subject if you'd place this in Off Topic instead of LTS.

What I suppose others would consider to be my concept of "god", I consider to be a universal energy force of some sort. There are many nuggets truths contained in all religions, spiritual beliefs, whatever you want to name the concept - and one of those truths that most share is that humans cannot really put a name on "god". It's far beyond our understanding. So I don't try to name it or describe it - it just is, ok?

As for evolution - this nameless force is what drives evolution. It's what drives everything. But to name it or describe it or to attribute its image to any single thing in the universe? Wow, that's a pretty tall order. We're all "god" and everything is "god" - it can't be separated out.

Confused? Eh. For me, it isn't a concept that can be talked about using our limited language tools. It just is, ok? So don't try to force your belief systems on me - given how I view the concept, you can't know what you're talking about because it simply cannot be talked about.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Didn't neglect evolution. Not really germane to the question being pondered. Have no problem with evolution. I believe it's the most plausible theory. To me time has no meaning for God. So whether he took 14 billion years or six days, by our reckoning, our concept of time doesn't apply to God. In biblical times, God would have explained the creation of the universe in a way the people of that time could grasp.

As a rule, and I've discovered THIS many yrs ago way back when I was in my 20s & 30s I have always left out religion, sexual orientation, race, and political views out of all of my conversations

I found that to be a very SAFE approach, why you may ask, the reason being is due to the fact thatI could NEVER win any argument with any of these topics

as we all have very different views, so I always try to find the door or exit when they do come up, as I never wanted to offend anyone with my opinions except right-wing conservatives or religious fanatics

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"it's so nice to be insane, cause no-one ask you to explain" Helen Reddy cc 1974

This is what happens when I have spare time on my hands. I need to keep busier...

Agreed.

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"Life in Lubbock, Texas, taught me two things: One is that God loves you and you're going to burn in hell. The other is that sex is the most awful, filthy thing on earth and you should save it for someone you love." - Butch Hancock, Musician, The Flatlanders

That by asking my initial question, I'm forcing my belief system on you?

No, I wasn't speaking directly to you when I said that. I was speaking with a nod in the direction of people who belong to religions that insist their believers try to convert everyone they meet. Sorry for the confusion.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Dachshund--no, not convenient, just an expression of what I think in response to a question about evolution...which again, in itself, wasn't really germane to my subject.

The subject of this thread was concerning whether the soul or the human form were created in the image of God per the Bible. Not the veracity of the bible, just in regards to the subject of this thread what could be concluded per the contents of the Bible.

Your comment would probably be a good basis for another thread. But it doesn't address the subject I posted. Thanks anyway though for your contribution.

Here's the question. Weigh in if you care, even atheists. In the bible passage that says God created man in his own image...was our human body shell, which holds the soul, created in the image of God or was it the soul, inside the shell, which was created in the image of God?

This is what happens when I have spare time on my hands. I need to keep busier...

If god created me in his own image, I've more than repaid the compliment.

The short answer is that there is no consensus, either in Antiquity or among modern biblical scholars, as to the precise definition of בצלמנו כדמותנו (bəṣalmÍnū kiḏmūṯÍnū) at Genesis 1:26. Unsurprisingly, in the Christian tradition from Patristic times onward, the "we" of this text was hit on as the pluralis maiestatis: in other words, an unambiguous reference to their trinitarian belief, and for them, something of a proof-text.

From the perspective of modern critical scholarship, however, this is simply nonsense. These texts cannot be understood without reference to wider Ancient Near-Eastern creation myths; and originally, the "we" is evidently the heavenly court of which Yahweh (and his wife, Asherah) were part and latterly became the dominant figures after a cosmic war. It must also be remembered that more than one source is evidenced in this composite text; and that while (for example) rabbinical Judaism became unquestionably monotheistic, their antecedents were just as unquestionably henotheistic, and the Tanakh offers eloquent witness to the cultic power-struggle which took place.

As to the "image and likeness" aspect of this text, linguistically it is highly probable that it simply referred to the (presumed) shape of the gods. The being which the Heavenly Court fashioned was deliberately made to look like them, and the whole thing is anthropomorphic through and though. A parallel to this text is found in Genesis 5:3, where it is noted that Adam himself begot a son (= Seth) in his own likeness and image (בדמותו כצלמו: the order is reversed). In other words, like father, like son.

What you do with all that in terms of your own 'theology' or 'spirituality' is, of course, up to you. I'm an atheist, and for me it's all hogwash. But while I do not respect your beliefs, I do respect your right to believe them.

"I have tried hard--but life is difficult, and I am a very useless person. I can hardly be said to have an independent existence. I was just a screw or a cog in the great machine I called life, and when I dropped out of it I found I was of no use anywhere else."

I love conversations like this, especially over a pint of Guinness. If you go by the Christian point of view, the Bible does state, "man is made in the image and likeness of God" but the question is it the Soul or the External Shell we all have?Personally I believe in an External Source, I dont see a Godhead figure of an Old man with the White Beard living in the sky.....its a concept created to explain in simple terms the philosophical view of a Supreme Deity to those who choose to believe in such...it was also something created to introduce a level of fear so person would contribute in monetary terms to a Church. In the same way, people who choose not to believe in any religion, are no less human or detached from those who do believe, and those who "belong" to an organised religion shouldnt feel more senior than those who dont. I choose the term, "disorganised religion" as I feel most of them are that way inclined, Im not dissing those who believe, as I once belonged to an organised Church, but when you are told that you cannot belong because of your sexuality or because you come from a home where your parents are divorced, it flies in the face of all that is considered "Christian". (just my own views)The "Soul" is that which makes each of us unique, when a body dies, the essence of that person, the "soul" is what leaves the human form and the person is no longer there......if it remained, the person after death would still look "alive". I can vouch for this after having first hand experience of it and am not afraid of death......we can choose to miss those who we love who are no longer here after death, but they never really leave us....sorry for the rant...Ive kinda forgotten the question! LOL!

I always find it interesting that humans will always go to great lengths denying that they are as worthless, in the context of the larger universe, than a speck of dust laying on the carpet.

I'm starting to believe the very opposite: the whole universe, galaxies, stars, solar system, sun, earth were miraculously created through a litany of fortuitous strokes. It took billions of years for life to evolve, millions for humans to evolve, thousands and thousands of fortunate events had to conspire successfully to bring my existence into being.

Thus, when I die, all of it will die with me. The Universe will carry on of course, except that I won't be here to perceive it, my mind and body won't exist- so, in that light I am the only thing that matters. All else is an illusion.

I might be a speck of stardust, but that's the only speck that's mine.

I love conversations like this, especially over a pint of Guinness. If you go by the Christian point of view, the Bible does state, "man is made in the image and likeness of God" but the question is it the Soul or the External Shell we all have?Personally I believe in an External Source, I dont see a Godhead figure of an Old man with the White Beard living in the sky.....its a concept created to explain in simple terms the philosophical view of a Supreme Deity to those who choose to believe in such...it was also something created to introduce a level of fear so person would contribute in monetary terms to a Church. In the same way, people who choose not to believe in any religion, are no less human or detached from those who do believe, and those who "belong" to an organised religion shouldnt feel more senior than those who dont. I choose the term, "disorganised religion" as I feel most of them are that way inclined, Im not dissing those who believe, as I once belonged to an organised Church, but when you are told that you cannot belong because of your sexuality or because you come from a home where your parents are divorced, it flies in the face of all that is considered "Christian". (just my own views)The "Soul" is that which makes each of us unique, when a body dies, the essence of that person, the "soul" is what leaves the human form and the person is no longer there......if it remained, the person after death would still look "alive". I can vouch for this after having first hand experience of it and am not afraid of death......we can choose to miss those who we love who are no longer here after death, but they never really leave us....sorry for the rant...Ive kinda forgotten the question! LOL!

I think man created God in his image and its reflected today whenyou look at the diveristy of christian sects. The tolerant and loving choose a tolerant and lovivng sect and view of God. The intolerant the opposite

There is no proof of a soul and frankly I am a disbeliever in the idea. Good living requires, empathy, understanding. If I cease in the last moment of consciusneess isht that's then my eternity ? As to the bible it has many many statements that are the antithesis of each other

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If someone tells you potential consequences of a behavior it doesn't mean they jude you or mit they may just give a shit about you