jwb i believe we had setup a space planning committee but could be wrong, if you want to set up a committee, you need to do so through the board so that other members not on here know about it. i'll put it on the agenda.

Then we can add a white board to the wood shop -- wait, there's one already! And move the projector in there and unfold some tables for a class. Win!

Michael, you have to accept the fact that you're going to have to compromise on this. If we're going to remain in operation there have to be other opinions than just yours listened to. The way things are set up now is not acceptable to a number of us who have been chatting in email.

metis wrote:jwb i believe we had setup a space planning committee but could be wrong, if you want to set up a committee, you need to do so through the board so that other members not on here know about it. i'll put it on the agenda.

jwb just because you have not gotten your way does not mean that i'm not willing to compromise. at YOUR request several of use tried to set up a lounge area and put in sweat equity to do so because you wouldn't and you refused to tell us more about what you wanted at the time. you haven't offered any concessions or addressed any issues that i've brought up with your plans that have real effect on how other members are currently using the space. i've already compromised on this, and as i've said, i'm NOT opposed to making the classroom more loungey, i'm opposed to 6 or 7 folks making decisions on here that will negatively affect what 15+ members currently like.

thank you for telling me that you're talking about be behind my back. i find it disappointing that you weren't able to address me personally via email, phone or pm. many of our members do not frequent the forums and are not on the google group, however they all are told when board meetings are, and how to contact the board is listed on the wiki if you can't make it in person.

Michael, in no way is the Do-ocracy about the fundraising manager speaking for the board and informing everyone that the board controls everything. A group of us are going to talk about what we'd like to do with the Meatspace and then we're going to Do it. Yay Do-ocracy!

I got really excited when I saw all these great ideas and talk flying back and forth. When I see people being flexible, and brainstorming, and forming consensus, that makes me happy and excited.

There's not ONE SINGLE ISSUE in all of this that can't be resolved, not one. It's all doable, every last bit of it. All we need is to talk about it and problem solve. We've got a busload of rocket surgeons, it shouldn't be that hard.

When I start picking up a lot of negative energy, it really makes me unhappy.

I'm not going to say anything else, but I sure hope we can have some grown uppy conversations about this stuff in person.

personally, i want to work with ALL of our members in a way that they can see what's going on and have input to make our shop better. displacing classes, groups, events and members using the wood and metal shops for the sake of a dedicated lounge seems disrespectful to the majority of our members.

i agree completely with ork, none of the issues are really that big if we're willing to make the classroom a flexible space. we just need it to be able to accommodate several uses. again, i'm all in favor of making the classroom more of a lounge. i've already put sweat equity into trying to make a lounge, and volunteered to help source materials. i am very willing to compromise, but not if it means ignoring what a number of our members are currently doing.

we as a group decided (unanimously at the time, iirc) to be governed by an elected a board of directors to coordinate and facilitate things so that decisions that affect everyone could be made with input from everyone who wanted to give it, but that most members wouldn't have to deal with details, as a lot of folks just want to make, share and learn, not have to deal with lease payments. board meetings have always been open to everyone, and we've routinely stopped to ask members near by who weren't in the meeting what they thought.

(If, perchance, you're one of those whose eyes are offended when you witness capital letters being for emphasis, rather than the much more esthetically pleasing finely crafted prose, kindly avert said eyes from the following. Thank you.)

We have a LOT of space to play with, we have a LOT of materials already, and we have a legion of capable individuals with talent, skill and vision.

There are some things about our current space that are working for some, but possibly not all of our members. I am 100% confident that what we have at our disposal is more than a sufficiency to meet every concern and desire that's been raised.

We don't need to give up metal working, wood working, classroom , electronics, lounge, or sit in comfy settings and hackery about space.

We DO need to come up with a set of goals for what we want at the space, and what kinds of places we want at the space.

This, in my opinion, should come before deciding what specifically goes where, or how big each area should be, or who gets to do what when.

I say this even though I have my own specific ideas about what should go where. That's great, I like my ideas. Your (all of you your) ideas about what should go where are also important to me.

I believe that once we have a list, on a real world big piece of paper, of all the various types of activities and spaces we want to have at the hack factory, we can start figuring out what should happen where, and when.

I haven't taken any classes at the space yet, but the ability to have classes, and space for it, is important to me.

I haven't spent any time sitting on a couch relaxing and listening to music or watching something visual at the space, but I want that to be possible.

I've spent a very small amount of my time sitting in the classroom with other people around me tinkering with non dusty non woodworking projects, but I do want to be able to. JWB has described this activity and setting so well that I'm not even going to try.

I haven't spent any time with a soldering iron in my hand yet, but I'm going to, by golly. I'll need to if I want to build my army of killer robots. (You might think I'm kidding, but I'm totally serious. I've had visions of autonomous ground combat bots going through my head for a looong time.)

Nobody has asked for a swimming pool where the woodworking space is. No one has asked to throw out all the computers so we can replace them with whatever tools are needed for backwards underwater basket weaving. (Scuba gear, mirrors, and some cane working tools, I imagine.. maybe some rebreather gear?)

As we move forward on making our space better, I would ask that all of us listen, talk, participate in the discussion, and know that even though I want escargot, you can still have bavarian cream pie.