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Re: "moral" "ethical"

Originally Posted by Gillnetter

Morals and ethics are not really the same thing. Morals usually refer to how one person acts, while ethics refers to the standards of a group. You may act in a moral way by doing what you think is right. You are ethical if you follow the rules of a group - lawyers have ethical standards that their members must follow.

Yes, I think you make a very good point. In fact, it seems to me that we wouldn't normally call a person ethical. An action can be ethical, but a person whose actions are ethical would be called a moral person.

I'm not sure that I agree that ethical only refers to the standards of a group, however. We might be in the same society -- or same family -- but differ as to whether a particular action is ethical.

Re: "moral" "ethical"

I'm not sure that I agree that ethical only refers to the standards of a group, however. We might be in the same society -- or same family -- but differ as to whether a particular action is ethical.

Yes, I agree with you. As a matter of fact ethical refers to anything that is morally good or correct as accepted by a groupe of people. The anything can be actions/standards/practice/beliefs/trading etc.The company has adopted ethical investment policies (=investing only in businesses that are considered morally acceptable)There are ethical dilemmas surrounding genetic research

Re: "moral" "ethical"

Originally Posted by sarat_106

Yes, I agree with you. As a matter of fact ethical refers to anything that is morally good or correct. The anything can be actions/standards/practice/beliefs/trading etc.The company has adopted ethical investment policies (=investing only in businesses that are considered morally acceptable)There are ethical dilemmas surrounding genetic research

But you seem to be disagreeing.
Ethical does not refer to what is morally good. It refers more to what a group of people has decided is morally acceptable or not acceptable, and which has been codified in some way.
Something can be unethical but not moral, and vice versa.

For example, doctors subscribe to medical ethics. One ethical principle is not to kill your patients. Many doctors have decided that assisted suicide is morally right in some cases, even though it's ethically wrong in most medical codes.
On the other hand, some doctors might think that the abortion of a deformed foetus is morally wrong. But it is not unethical under most medical codes.

It's also very unethical to have a sexual relationship with a patient. But in some cases, it's quite conceivable that no moral problem actually exists. Consider a doctor in a small town who treats a teacher for a cold. They get to know each other socially, fall in love and get married. That is unethical - and doctors have been reprimanded for it, especially if the marriage goes sour.

It's not uncommon for one's ethics as a member of a group to conflict with our own personal morals.

Re: "moral" "ethical"

Originally Posted by Raymott

But you seem to be disagreeing.
Ethical does not refer to what is morally good. It refers more to what a group of people has decided is morally acceptable or not acceptable, and which has been codified in some way.
Something can be unethical but not moral, and vice versa.

For example, doctors subscribe to medical ethics. One ethical principle is not to kill your patients. Many doctors have decided that assisted suicide is morally right in some cases, even though it's ethically wrong in most medical codes.
On the other hand, some doctors might think that the abortion of a deformed foetus is morally wrong. But it is not unethical under most medical codes.

It's also very unethical to have a sexual relationship with a patient. But in some cases, it's quite conceivable that no moral problem actually exists. Consider a doctor in a small town who treats a teacher for a cold. They get to know each other socially, fall in love and get married. That is unethical - and doctors have been reprimanded for it, especially if the marriage goes sour.

It's not uncommon for one's ethics as a member of a group to conflict with our own personal morals.

Re: "moral" "ethical"

Originally Posted by Raymott

But you seem to be disagreeing.
Ethical does not refer to what is morally good. It refers more to what a group of people has decided is morally acceptable or not acceptable, and which has been codified in some way.
Something can be unethical but not moral, and vice versa.

For example, doctors subscribe to medical ethics. One ethical principle is not to kill your patients. Many doctors have decided that assisted suicide is morally right in some cases, even though it's ethically wrong in most medical codes.
On the other hand, some doctors might think that the abortion of a deformed foetus is morally wrong. But it is not unethical under most medical codes.

It's also very unethical to have a sexual relationship with a patient. But in some cases, it's quite conceivable that no moral problem actually exists. Consider a doctor in a small town who treats a teacher for a cold. They get to know each other socially, fall in love and get married. That is unethical - and doctors have been reprimanded for it, especially if the marriage goes sour.

It's not uncommon for one's ethics as a member of a group to conflict with our own personal morals.

I thank you for the very useful post. But I'm afraid I disagree. To say that it is the standard of a group is not to say that it is, in fact, ethical. I would never say that segregation is ethical, even if it is the standard of behavior accepted by the local community and/or is written into law. I might consider abortion unethical and you might consider it ethical; what makes it ethical is not whether or not the surrounding community accepts it as so. Otherwise we'd be saying that it is ethical when performed in, say, Dallas but not when it is performed in Denver. What makes something ethical is whether by doing it I am acting in a moral way or not.

But I thank you for pursuing this. It certainly gives much food for thought and I'd appreciate having other people weigh in on this. It's an important issue!

Re: "moral" "ethical"

That's fine. There's probably a range of definitions of 'ethical' that would make it equivalent to 'moral' in some cases.

You probably would agree that there are professional codes of ethics which, for a practitioner to follow would sometimes be immoral.
And I'm sure you would agree that there immoral things that not in that professionals ethical code.

The term 'ethics' is often used to give that exact distinction.

Here's another: It's not unethical to pay a Wall Street banker a bonuses of 6.4 gazillion dollars a year, but it's damn immoral in my books.

Re: "moral" "ethical"

Originally Posted by Raymott

That's fine. There's probably a range of definitions of 'ethical' that would make it equivalent to 'moral' in some cases.

You probably would agree that there are professional codes of ethics which, for a practitioner to follow would sometimes be immoral.
And I'm sure you would agree that there immoral things that not in that professionals ethical code.

The term 'ethics' is often used to give that exact distinction.

Here's another: It's not unethical to pay a Wall Street banker a bonuses of 6.4 gazillion dollars a year, but it's damn immoral in my books.

And I'd say, how can it be immoral and not unethical? I guess we look at the word ethical differently, but we look at those bankers the same way!