So Texas finally deemed me profeshnull enuff to carry (woot!) and as I'm going about with my PM9 in my SmartCarry holster for the first time, I couldn't stop thinking about how the thing is chambered and pointing right at my boys. Then I started thinking "damn, what if there is a loose thread on the holster and it got snagged on the trigger". Sounds crazy but hey, check out the new thread on the AD with the Glock getting snagged. Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?

Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously, are you going to reach into your junk, pull the gun, chamber a round before whatever caused this response kills you? This also isn't taking degradation of fine motor skills into consideration when you add the stress of life or death!

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:So Texas finally deemed me profeshnull enuff to carry (woot!) and as I'm going about with my PM9 in my SmartCarry holster for the first time, I couldn't stop thinking about how the thing is chambered and pointing right at my boys. Then I started thinking "damn, what if there is a loose thread on the holster and it got snagged on the trigger". Sounds crazy but hey, check out the new thread on the AD with the Glock getting snagged. Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?

I dont carry Mostly cuz I'll only be in TN for like 8 more months. It does me no good while deployed, and when I get back, I go to the Nazi state of Illinois. I'm not spending 120 bucks to carry for 8 months.

Look at it this way. If you get into a situation that will justify you pulling your CCW there is a very good chance that you WILL NOT have time to chamber the round. Most "experts" will tell you that you need to be capable of drawing and firing your CCW weapon i 1.5 seconds. Adding a major step, such as chambering the round will make it impossible to accomplish this task.

SBG

Well the day's just not complete without seeing some guy get cornholed by a kangaroo while wearing a cream pie on his head... -Aimless

I live in TX also I'm 6'3" 265 lbs and carry a full sized 1911 in a Milt Sparks IWB and wear jeans and T-Shirts all the time. It's possible you just gotta be aware of you clothing and situations. You just gotta determine what is more important to you.

I don't and wouldn't carry mine unloaded Don't make good sense too me!

Florida Castle Doctrine.... A criminal who forcibly enters or intrudes into your home or occupied vehicle is there to cause death or great bodily harm, therefore a person may use any manner of force, including deadly force, against that person.

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously

Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously

Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.

Go ahead and stuff your pistol(unloaded of course) down the front of your pants, tuck in your shirt, and then try to draw, chamber and present your pistol. Then to simulate stress, give yourself time limits, say 2.5 seconds to do this in. Report back on your findings. Or don't, whatever, just trying to help!

As another excercise, repeat these steps with one hand only. Then with weak hand only.

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems: Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?

Not really,depends on who you are and not me. If and when your attacked,be sure to ask the BG if it's ok to chamber a round before he attacks you. Carry a round chambered or don't carry at all.In the time it takes you to clear your holster,rack the slide, get a sight picture the BG will have already killed you. If your being attacked , the nerves will already be hyped up enough to cause your muscle memory to have a hard time operating,having to rack the slide will be one more thing for you to deal with and could quite possibly cost you ( or someone else's ) your/their life. I'd add getting some training into your budget. Also get a real holster.

"I'm currently naked."When the boogy man goes to sleep,he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously

Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.

What if you run into an armed thug? DO you think he will wait while you play with your gun to hurt or kill you? If your affraid to carry loaded then you have no trust in your weapon and/or training. I would change tactics if I were you and also get more training if needed.

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:Took 6 of us ramming the poor thing, and we are all pretty beefy guys, too (no pun intended)

Too further add, Smart Carry is really only designed for the times when you absolutely cannot carry in a more conventional way. It gives up some time for concealability. By carrying unchambered with Smart Carry, you are giving up even more time, time that you WILL need if presented with a situation. If you are in a situation that you know "well" beforehand is going to deteriorate in to drawing down, then you probably have time to get out of the area as well.

Pistols with an empty chamber make a piss poor club. Even with a Smartcarry, the triggerguard is completely covered. Chamber a round and carry your pistol properly. Read the previously posted "21 foot rule" pdf, and have it change your mind.

Edit: There's no way you're going to be able to draw, rack slide, target, and shoot in 1.6 seconds. Especially not from a Smartcarry holster.

Originally Posted By GUNGUY1911:Unchambered and Smart Carry may as well be no gun at all, seriously

Give me a break, that's the kind of gung ho shit people love to say but it's bull. Maybe if you drew down you would need to fire immediately, most of the accounts you hear about indicate plenty of time to give a warning much less rack the slide which only takes a split second. I'm not saying unchambered is better than not, yeah it's a disadvantage, but saying it makes concealed carry worthless is silly.

After you get some training ( your permit course doesn't count ) , or before doesn't matter to me, ask the instructor about presentation and the added unchambered round.You admit to having the gun unchambered is a disadvantage,why do you want to give the BG more advantage than he already has?Get some training man. PLEASE!

"I'm currently naked."When the boogy man goes to sleep,he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.

I'm not sure how long you've been carrying, but if I were to guess, I would say you're fairly new. I could be wrong. Nevertheless, when I first started carrying I stuck with a S&W 442 in a pocket holster - with only 4 rounds, the chamber under the hammer was empty. I was concerned with AD (no, not ED!!). After a couple of years of concealed carry with different pistols/revolvers, everthing from Bersa to Kel-Tec, Taurus, S&W, Makarov, etc., my comfort level and proficiency improved. I think you might just need more time and experience. I've carried a 1911 C&L under a t-shirt in Florida during 105 degree temps. Sure, I'm sweating, but it isn't the pistol making me sweat - its the heat/humidity.

ETA: if I made an improper assumption, I apologize and did not mean to embarrass you.

"The only way to bag a classy lady is give her two tickets to the gun show...." - Ron Burgundy, Anchorman, Channel 4 News

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.

As far as the incident you are alluding to, it is also taught by some to remove any kind of drawstrings from garments that you wear to conceal a weapon with, for exactly this reason. Therefore, this too could be called a "training issue". The fact of the matter is, you came here to ask the opinion of others, and do not seem to like what you are hearing. Some of us carry EVERYDAY, on and off the job, so if you want to resort to callin g me or anyone else gung-ho or whatever, that's your perogative. You asked a question, you were given MANY answers, you didn't like them so you counter attack. So I ask you, why did you bother asking opinions if you didn't want the answers?

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.

You really seem to be assuming a whole lot. The scenario you think you will encounter will be completely opposite of what will happen. You are pointing fingers at people who are prepared because they would rather have something than need it. Which is why you are carrying isn't it? You carry because the need might arise to defend yourself to the death. If you want to play around with the chances of you surviving by giving away valuable seconds, by all means, we will not stop you. Your comments seem to be centered around how afraid you are of the gun. That is not meant as an insult just advice.

Originally Posted By N1Rampage:Took 6 of us ramming the poor thing, and we are all pretty beefy guys, too (no pun intended)

What is that a picture of? you know holsters are designed to wrap around the trigger guard so they don't just "go bang" in your pants, right?

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber shouldn't engage in this scenario. Your car is your best weapon.

2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene again, should be running the other way unless it is a loved one you are protecting.

3) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here Yes, you are at a disadvantage here.

I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.

Sounds like you may need to re-think carrying at all. Whatever you decide, be safe and get more training.

Originally Posted By DukeSnookems:So Texas finally deemed me profeshnull enuff to carry (woot!) and as I'm going about with my PM9 in my SmartCarry holster for the first time, I couldn't stop thinking about how the thing is chambered and pointing right at my boys. Then I started thinking "damn, what if there is a loose thread on the holster and it got snagged on the trigger". Sounds crazy but hey, check out the new thread on the AD with the Glock getting snagged. Then I started thinking about life as a eunuch and decided dammit, I'm gonna just carry it unchambered. An unchambered gun is better than no gun and worst case, being shot dead is better than living life with no nads. Anybody else?

Firstly, I have carried concealed semi-automatic pistols for years, and never has one discharged on me during daily carry.

Secondly, in an actual self defense scenario you might well find yourself in a position where you CANNOT chamber around, thus making your weapon absolutely useless. Proceeding as if you will be able to chamber a round if trouble starts is a pretty good way to get your butt in a sling. Ever tried manually chambering a round in an automatic pistol in a hurry? Care to guess how many malfunctions I have seen induced that way?

If you are afraid of a chambered pistol going off, the better solution is to carry a revolver which IS perfectly safe, and which will still allow you to have a fully functional weapon at the ready.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.

Smartcarry is for places like the anti-gun office which won't allow concealed carry - with a smaller pistol, it's the shiznit, as there is no way anyone will accidently bump/touch/feel it there (under normal circumstances). That being said, I carried my glock there with one in the pipe, and I didn't feel like I was endangering myself. YMMV

I used to carry a Glock unchambered in a groin carry when I first got my CHL.

As I got more practice, I switched to a H&K compact USP with a round chambered. It is all about your comfort level. I also realized most people are not trying to check if you are wearing a gun. Now I sometimes even carry outside my waistband with a long t-shirt. No one notices, not even other CCW's.

Now I hear what you are saying, I guess it just depends on what scenarious you think you are likely to encounter. In my mind, the list in order of decreasing likelihood is...

1) Road Rage nut - plenty of time to chamber2) Seeing someone commit a crime against another party - plenty of time to chamber if you decide you should intervene2) Mugging/assault - may or may not be at a disdvantage here

People here tend to think in worst case scenarious as opposed to a evaluating it from a pragmatic risk/reward POV. Hence all the people with 30,000 rounds, 10 lbs of crap on their rails, and something for every TEOTWAWKI/SHTF scenario in their mind. So in an effort at being pragmatic, I gotta ask the question of whether the risk of carrying chambered outweigh the risk of not having it chambered? There seems to be plenty of accounts of ADs, accounts where the weapon was used and needed immediately are less frequent AFAI can tell. People will say it's a training issue and other uber-tactical mantras but the truth is although you should be trained and may be trained, shit happens.

Sh*t does not just "happen" with firearms. Sh*ht "happening" with firearms usually refers to someone doing something incredibly stupid. There is a REASON you reholster SLOW and with DELIBERATE attention: to avoid doing anything damnably stupid.

The odds of a weapon firing on its own inside a holster are probably far lower than the odds of you being hit by lightning.

It is substantially true that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government.