cthia wrote:Can Thomas Bachfish be pardoned? Why can't he be rehabilitated? It's different across the galaxy with Alfredo and Co., with Haven. But Bachfish's slate should have been cleared by now. He certainly earned it. If what is good for the goose is good for the gander, then what's good for Jaruwalski is good for the 'fish. Heck, Jaruwalski's crime was close to Alfredo's than Bachfish's.

Don, thanks. But you are simply being kind. Thanks for the kindness. But the original list sucks. I wasn't trying to be exhaustive. I knew I was forgetting quite a few. Probably several that I failed to even realize moved within Honor's RSVP sphere.

He really wasn't "convicted." The board decided to beach him and put him on half pay. As for rehabilitating him, he seems to have dropped off the radar of everybody but ONI. Then, too, he didn't stick around the Star Kingdom. He went back to Silesia where he managed to get himself set up with some merchant ships/Q ships and was doing good work against pirates. Except for Givens using him as a contact in her intel networks and apparently helping him acquire one of his Q Ships from the Andies, he doesn't have a lot of contact with the navy. At least part of that seems to have been a matter of choice. He was a proud man wanting to make his mark and that was how he went about it.

Don

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When any group seeks political power in God's name, both religion and politics are instantly corrupted.

Now that you mentioned it, didn't he give reasons for refusing something akin to not wanting Honor to risk tainting her own career, sticking her nose out for him? Which she would have done gladly.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble.—cthia's father. Incident in ?Axiom of Common Sense

Annachie wrote:It wouldn't suprise me to find that a large part of him being unrehabilitated was because of the spying he was doing in Silesia.

And that he's been left "on the beach" to let him still "trade" into the Andi side.

What a wonderful way to look at it. Probably more than a bit of truth in it as well. Considering the advantages of prolong that we mere mortals can never grasp, there are several lifetimes of chances for a career in the Honorverse. At least there's time to salvage at least one of Bachfish's.

I'm sure he's proud to do his part in Silesia and whatever else come what may. But at the end of the day, I'd assume he'd love to die in a Queen's uniform. When the time is right.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble.—cthia's father. Incident in ?Axiom of Common Sense

Annachie wrote:It wouldn't suprise me to find that a large part of him being unrehabilitated was because of the spying he was doing in Silesia.

And that he's been left "on the beach" to let him still "trade" into the Andi side.

To lend to that, while on 1/2 pay, he continued to gain rank, and was a Admiral (Probably Rear) at the time of WoH.

Given his thoughts at the time about the RMN internal political issues and problems with privilege, what happened to him most likely left a sour taste in his mouth, even though he too believed he earned his fate (he had been suckered into close combat with a superior opponent, and only the actions of a midshipwoman saved his ship. Without her actions, HE would have lost the ship).

The shakeup of 3 wars and several major scandals have winnowed the ranks (and power) of the political officers severely, and the effects of officers like Courvoisier and Harrington at Saganami Island, setting the mold for future officers, has made the RMN a different place than it was 50 years earlier. Given the current climate, if the Queen asked him for his assistance in Silesia, I doubt if he would refuse.

******RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."

You would have to get him to agree to be "rehabilitated" (a pardon is not applicable because he didn't commit a crime.)

Honor offered to get him back on full pay and he refused.

How exactly does the beaching thing work? Does beaching automatically denote half pay?

If what Honor offered is to get Bachfish back on full pay, was she also offering to get him reprieved? Or can full pay accompany being beached?

And about this not being "convicted." So yes, he wasn't convicted of a statutory crime of the legal system. But he certainly transgressed military acceptance, which makes him guilty of something in the eyes of the military. And he can be pardoned for those transgressions.

Am I correct that in the entire history of the RMN, Pavel Young is the only officer dishonorably discharged? As far as the readers know.

Son, your mother says I have to hang you. Personally I don't think this is a capital offense. But if I don't hang you, she's gonna hang me and frankly, I'm not the one in trouble.—cthia's father. Incident in ?Axiom of Common Sense

in theory I suppose you could be beached as in removed from ship command but still employed somewhere else, i.e. Vulcan or some other non ship duty but generally it seems to be used for those on half pay.

he failed to properly plan for the fight, and his ship only survived because of an exceptional snotty. in wartime, he might just have gotten a reprimand and temp shore duty for a while as bad things happen in war and no-one can be prepaered for everything, but this was peacetime so he was relived. I believe it was quietly made clear that he would never have another ship command and promotion and anything other then crap assignments would be VERY unlikely.

besides much like honor, master after god of you own ship is what just about every good officer dreams of and often mourns when promoted out of it.

hlaf-pay does not affect time in grade when it comes to promotions, i think, yet it still took years to be promoted to full admiral (no mention of exactly how many, just that he was promoted "some time ago". when we learn that though it was nearly 40 years after the incident, during that time we had the first peep war which had the SKM promoting fighting captains left & right. I do believe he could have come back to service if he had really wanted to, but shame & the help he was being to ONI meant that he didn't try.

in theory I suppose you could be beached as in removed from ship command but still employed somewhere else, i.e. Vulcan or some other non ship duty but generally it seems to be used for those on half pay.

he failed to properly plan for the fight, and his ship only survived because of an exceptional snotty. in wartime, he might just have gotten a reprimand and temp shore duty for a while as bad things happen in war and no-one can be prepaered for everything, but this was peacetime so he was relived. I believe it was quietly made clear that he would never have another ship command and promotion and anything other then crap assignments would be VERY unlikely.

besides much like honor, master after god of you own ship is what just about every good officer dreams of and often mourns when promoted out of it.

hlaf-pay does not affect time in grade when it comes to promotions, i think, yet it still took years to be promoted to full admiral (no mention of exactly how many, just that he was promoted "some time ago". when we learn that though it was nearly 40 years after the incident, during that time we had the first peep war which had the SKM promoting fighting captains left & right. I do believe he could have come back to service if he had really wanted to, but shame & the help he was being to ONI meant that he didn't try.

After you reach a certain point in your career, you can go on 1/2 pay (I don't remember but I believe it is Senior captain.) After that point you can be placed there because of political reasons, or performance reasons, but it usually indicates that someone doesn't want you in command for some reason, but also doesn't have the proof against you to dismiss you for cause. You continue to accrue seniority and receive time forced promotions, on top of your pay.

Honor and White Haven went on half pay during WoH. White Haven was placed on 1/2 pay several times in his career, as the political winds changed, and Honor 2x. So in the RMN, it's not necessarily a stigma. Bachfitch was considered a well regarded, competent, senior Captain before the incident, but with no political connections. He has them now, so I don't see why he wouldn't be accepted back into the RMN ranks, especially with the RMN's losses.

It probably started as a political weapon and a way to keep the politically connected idiots away from higher command.

******RFC said "refitting a Beowulfan SD to Manticoran standards would be just as difficult as refitting a standard SLN SD to those standards. In other words, it would be cheaper and faster to build new ships."