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As far as I see nearly 80% of the costs are paid by european countries.

BTW - the BUDGET of the NATO (and this is the ONLY contribution a country have to pay) is 2 billion Euro per year. From this 2 billion USA is paying like 400 million, germany 300 million and 220 million paid by france and UK and the rest comes from the european NATO countries.

I don´t know why nobody is able to explain this fact to you and your oval-office-clown.

so if he reduce this budget from 400 million 20% and pays only 320 million instead you save a fucking lot.
do you know that US pays more INTEREST on the debt you have in less than 2 minutes ????

Do you think the country is stronger now than it was before the election? I don't. I look around and see half the country despises the President. There seems to be endless protests, white supremacists are suddenly back in the news and have a presence, and the congress is a mess. Our allies are at odds with us, our leadership is doing nothing to try to bring the country together, in fact, quite the opposite, and these are just to name a few things from the top of my head.

If you compared the country at this time in 2015 to now, I would say we are much weaker and less stable now than we were then.

Putin got exactly what he wanted.

Interesting how subjective life can be.

I feel like the country is MUCH stronger than it was before Trump's election.

it's weird thommy keeps attacking everyone for being dumb about nato yet he can't grasp the simple fact that nato countries promised to spend 2%+ of their GDPs on defense. that has nothing to do with nato budget.

I actually agree with Trump on this one. If there are NATO allies who are not meeting their promised levels of spending, they should be held accountable. We spend way too much on the military as it is, cutting back on NATO funding (so long as they don't just waste that money somewhere else, sound good to me.

PROMISED LEVELS ???

NATO FOUNDING ???

what are you talking about.

I can show you a few contracts what trump fucked up even when they have been signed befor from other presidents.

show me this contract where it is written that EVERY NATO state MUST spend 2% of their GOP for defense !!!! I am really curious to see that.

and even IF that would exist (what isn´t the case) trump was the one who declared concluded contracts to be toilet paper - why do you think others should not have the same right?

best you buy him a coloring book. then he can write his decrees about the whole world in bright colors and we watch and amuse ourselves

I feel like the country is MUCH stronger than it was before Trump's election.

In a few months, we'll know how most of the country feels.

That's the thing. We are in this strange grey area between now and November. Anyone left of center (at least in my experience) seems to think the country is worse off than it was pre-Trump and those right of center seem to think just the opposite.

The midterms will be a huge indicator on where the public really is right now. There are tons of people out there that feel one way or the other that nobody ever hears from, until it comes time to vote.

it's weird thommy keeps attacking everyone for being dumb about nato yet he can't grasp the simple fact that nato countries promised to spend 2%+ of their GDPs on defense. that has nothing to do with nato budget.

That's the thing. We are in this strange grey area between now and November. Anyone left of center (at least in my experience) seems to think the country is worse off than it was pre-Trump and those right of center seem to think just the opposite.

The midterms will be a huge indicator on where the public really is right now. There are tons of people out there that feel one way or the other that nobody ever hears from, until it comes time to vote.

You are exactly right and it's fascinating.

IMO, it's because of fake division sowed by the MSM. How different can we REALLY be? Item by item, the reality is going to be we are very close in desires - we then need to debate how we get them. The items themselves are not so much in question - it's the how. Why so much acrimony over a how? Division.

IMO, it's because of fake division sowed by the MSM. How different can we REALLY be? Item by item, the reality is going to be we are very close in desires - we then need to debate how we get them. The items themselves are not so much in question - it's the how. Why so much acrimony over a how? Division.

While I don't for a second doubt the media's role in this, FOX news most certainly plays its part. Hannity hits the air every night and goes off about how the Mueller investigation is all a witch hunt and should be shut down and he attacks Hillary and Obama and the Left etc and on and on. Not to mention it has been reported that he speaks to Trump almost every night after he tapes his show. He and the others at FOX are doing their part to sow the seeds of discord.

That said, I agree with you that we are aren't really that different. In the end most human beings want the same things. We want to live safe, secure, prosperous, happy lives. How we get those things and what they look like is the issue. Making people fight over the minutia of those things is what helps keep our leadership in power.

While I don't for a second doubt the media's role in this, FOX news most certainly plays its part. Hannity hits the air every night and goes off about how the Mueller investigation is all a witch hunt and should be shut down and he attacks Hillary and Obama and the Left etc and on and on. Not to mention it has been reported that he speaks to Trump almost every night after he tapes his show. He and the others at FOX are doing their part to sow the seeds of discord.

That said, I agree with you that we are aren't really that different. In the end most human beings want the same things. We want to live safe, secure, prosperous, happy lives. How we get those things and what they look like is the issue. Making people fight over the minutia of those things is what helps keep our leadership in power.

While I don't for a second doubt the media's role in this, FOX news most certainly plays its part. Hannity hits the air every night and goes off about how the Mueller investigation is all a witch hunt and should be shut down and he attacks Hillary and Obama and the Left etc and on and on. Not to mention it has been reported that he speaks to Trump almost every night after he tapes his show. He and the others at FOX are doing their part to sow the seeds of discord.

That said, I agree with you that we are aren't really that different. In the end most human beings want the same things. We want to live safe, secure, prosperous, happy lives. How we get those things and what they look like is the issue. Making people fight over the minutia of those things is what helps keep our leadership in power.

You quoted alt-right hate fake nic "xClips Jim" as saying ", it's because of fake division sowed by the MSM."

This is how brainwashed those Wing nuts are.

Trump tweets daily to his minions that the FBI, CIA, NSA, DEMOCRATS & MSM are their enemies. Yet they blame the media for their hateful divisiveness trumpeted by Trump daily.

Do you think the country is stronger now than it was before the election? I don't. I look around and see half the country despises the President.

Kane, you're not this unreasonable. The above could be said at any point during any Presidency by those on "the other side". Were Republicans accused of loving Obama? Were Democrats accused of loving Bush? Wouldn't either just as easily say the same as what you just said?

Put down the click bait doom and gloom of CNN and MSNBC who are in a ratings death spiral and step back and take a breath. Nothing is bad. Nothing is wrong. Record low unemployment. Rock solid economy. Stock market has gained over a couple TRILLION in value since Trump took office etc etc etc etc. The only thing that is wrong is that someone you're told day in and day out to hate is President. And guess what? If the left doesn't get a grip, he's going to be President again and all the temper tantrums and feigned out rage in the world won't stop it as thats the very thing people voted against and will vote against again in 2020.

Remember my words. Democrats should do great in the Mid Terms. But this time... they won't. Voters are tired of all the constant doom and gloom, feigned outrage and continual creating of new classes of victims and genders etc. People want to believe in the future. People have been EXCEEDINGLY clear that they care about jobs, the economy, immigration, tax reform and health care. You can't win elections by petty name calling and immature behavior aimed at the guy who is doing EXACTLY what he was elected to do... and doubly so when it's working.

My understanding is that there is an agreement that the members will all spend 2% of the GDP on defense but there is no contract or anything formally, legally forcing them to spend that number.

there was an agreement that all NATO partners will increase their budget to an approximate target of 2 % in average in THE COMING YEARS.

1. Germany increased it already
2. Germany had spending of 3,15% in the financial crisis
3. The German army consists of volunteers. There's currently not even a clue what to do with the money there. Adding countries like Luxembourg and Iceland what have a small population but I quite huge GDP. What shall they buy for their army? Guns from gold ?

But last not least the biggest argument is that we have passed this days of cold war and the illusion that we could handle a conflict with a war.
the very best weapon we have is our economy.
every country want to trade with the EU and not destroy a potential customer.

Americans spend moni on occupation Not on protection, provoke conflicts in EU it does not give safety.

partially correct - but the bigger problems for europe and the rest of the world are the provoked conflicts in the middle east.

why do you think trump canceled the iran contract?

because he believes he can achieve peace in the region?

It's not even that stupid.

He withdrew from the contract because this ensures that the region will continue to be massively equipped and there will be more "Rocket Men" who will justify the wasted billions into the US defense industry.

the US economy lives on the world's unrest and trump is the war-industry's biggest lobbyist. the last thing it needs and wants is peace.

is Germany a captive of russia because we prefer to get our NATURAL gas through a 1200 km long pipleline instead through a 8000 km long one what would deliver environment killing frecking gas and makes us a captive of US ???

it was ok to be a captive from US for many years - but since trump NOBODY in this fucking planet wants to be that anymore. and it will never happen again even when he is gone because we call can see how unreliable and unpredictable the US system and their voters are.

is Germany a captive of russia because we prefer to get our NATURAL gas through a 1200 km long pipleline instead through a 8000 km long one what would deliver environment killing frecking gas and makes us a captive of US ???

it was ok to be a captive from US for many years - but since trump NOBODY in this fucking planet wants to be that anymore. and it will never happen again even when he is gone because we call can see how unreliable and unpredictable the US system and their voters are.

Those United States hate comments are why Germany will eventually stand on their own.

Mostly all middle east terror stems from Tehran. Make sure you continue to honor the Obama / Iran deal with Iran - which supplies funds to Iran / Nasrallah-Hezbollah in Syria. Shall I expand on Israel's bombing of Iranian missiles right outside of Damascus.

In short, Germany purchases it's energy from world hated Russia while trying to conduct business with terror country Iran. Shocking why Trump no longer sees value in Germany.
Under the Obama administration countries have been getting away with shit for way too long. Funny how everyone finally shows their true colors when confronted.
Drain the swamp!

Quote:

Originally Posted by thommy

it was ok to be a captive from US for many years - but since trump NOBODY in this fucking planet wants to be that anymore. and it will never happen again even when he is gone because we call can see how unreliable and unpredictable the US system and their voters are.

there was an agreement that all NATO partners will increase their budget to an approximate target of 2 % in average in THE COMING YEARS.

1. Germany increased it already
2. Germany had spending of 3,15% in the financial crisis
3. The German army consists of volunteers. There's currently not even a clue what to do with the money there. Adding countries like Luxembourg and Iceland what have a small population but I quite huge GDP. What shall they buy for their army? Guns from gold ?

But last not least the biggest argument is that we have passed this days of cold war and the illusion that we could handle a conflict with a war.
the very best weapon we have is our economy.
every country want to trade with the EU and not destroy a potential customer.

haha... Germany.... OWNED 100% by Trump! You get 60-70% of your energy needs supplied by Russia. Germany funnels BILLIONS and BILLIONS of Dollars into Russia and then wants protection from Russia.

imagine that. A leader that actually cares about his own nation and it's welfare and that actually confronts these issues head on rather than sitting around smiling for photo-ops and talking for the next 4 weeks about "what great people they are and what a productive meeting we had..."

As far as I see nearly 80% of the costs are paid by european countries.

BTW - the BUDGET of the NATO (and this is the ONLY contribution a country have to pay) is 2 billion Euro per year. From this 2 billion USA is paying like 400 million, germany 300 million and 220 million paid by france and UK and the rest comes from the european NATO countries.

I don´t know why nobody is able to explain this fact to you and your oval-office-clown.

so if he reduce this budget from 400 million 20% and pays only 320 million instead you save a fucking lot.
do you know that US pays more INTEREST on the debt you have in less than 2 minutes ????

haha... Germany.... OWNED 100% by Trump! You get 60-70% of your energy needs supplied by Russia. Germany funnels BILLIONS and BILLIONS of Dollars into Russia and then wants protection from Russia.

imagine that. A leader that actually cares about his own nation and it's welfare and that actually confronts these issues head on rather than sitting around smiling for photo-ops and talking for the next 4 weeks about "what great people they are and what a productive meeting we had..."

Kane, you're not this unreasonable. The above could be said at any point during any Presidency by those on "the other side". Were Republicans accused of loving Obama? Were Democrats accused of loving Bush? Wouldn't either just as easily say the same as what you just said?

Put down the click bait doom and gloom of CNN and MSNBC who are in a ratings death spiral and step back and take a breath. Nothing is bad. Nothing is wrong. Record low unemployment. Rock solid economy. Stock market has gained over a couple TRILLION in value since Trump took office etc etc etc etc. The only thing that is wrong is that someone you're told day in and day out to hate is President. And guess what? If the left doesn't get a grip, he's going to be President again and all the temper tantrums and feigned out rage in the world won't stop it as thats the very thing people voted against and will vote against again in 2020.

Remember my words. Democrats should do great in the Mid Terms. But this time... they won't. Voters are tired of all the constant doom and gloom, feigned outrage and continual creating of new classes of victims and genders etc. People want to believe in the future. People have been EXCEEDINGLY clear that they care about jobs, the economy, immigration, tax reform and health care. You can't win elections by petty name calling and immature behavior aimed at the guy who is doing EXACTLY what he was elected to do... and doubly so when it's working.

I get what you are saying but didn’t the victims vote? I thought the whole trump thing was about you guys are left behind.

haha... Germany.... OWNED 100% by Trump! You get 60-70% of your energy needs supplied by Russia. Germany funnels BILLIONS and BILLIONS of Dollars into Russia and then wants protection from Russia.

imagine that. A leader that actually cares about his own nation and it's welfare and that actually confronts these issues head on rather than sitting around smiling for photo-ops and talking for the next 4 weeks about "what great people they are and what a productive meeting we had..."

He says every meeting is great. I get that you have a side but some objective ness is good.

I feel like the country is MUCH stronger than it was before Trump's election.

Why? What has Trump done to make our country stronger?

He hasn't changed anything we are doing in Iraq or Afghanistan. In fact, his policy there with both countries is "do what Obama was doing". We now have troops inside of a war zone in Syria; Our forces have been directly engaged by Russian forces. With Korea he has moved our forces away from the border with North Korea, and canceled multiple training exercises.

On the political front he is destroying our relationships with our traditional allies (you know, the ones who supported us after 9/11 and in Iraq), and started trade wars with everyone which will end badly for us.

He hasn't changed anything we are doing in Iraq or Afghanistan. In fact, his policy there with both countries is "do what Obama was doing". We now have troops inside of a war zone in Syria; Our forces have been directly engaged by Russian forces. With Korea he has moved our forces away from the border with North Korea, and canceled multiple training exercises.

On the political front he is destroying our relationships with our traditional allies (you know, the ones who supported us after 9/11 and in Iraq), and started trade wars with everyone which will end badly for us.

Everything he has done has weakened our national.

He meant it's much stronger for racists, fascists and authoritarian lovers.

He hasn't changed anything we are doing in Iraq or Afghanistan. In fact, his policy there with both countries is "do what Obama was doing". We now have troops inside of a war zone in Syria; Our forces have been directly engaged by Russian forces. With Korea he has moved our forces away from the border with North Korea, and canceled multiple training exercises.

On the political front he is destroying our relationships with our traditional allies (you know, the ones who supported us after 9/11 and in Iraq), and started trade wars with everyone which will end badly for us.

Everything he has done has weakened our national.

I don't see things that way in the Middle East, except that we do have messes to clean up from previous admins, both Republican and Democrat. It's a new strategy and it will take some time to complete, but - where is ISIS? How long can Iran hold out against what is going on there? We are winning and are going to keep winning.

Asia - same thing, different tactics.

Our "traditional allies" seem to be anything but. Right now they are looking like the webmasters that hang around sponsor parties - hey, as long as you guys are paying and supplying us goodies we will hang with you and give you the Bro High Five, but - wait, you want us to kick in for this party? Chip in for the girls and booze? Fuuuuuuuuck that, we hate your shitty program, blah blah blah....

Those United States hate comments are why Germany will eventually stand on their own.

aha - you call this a hate comment when i tell you that 1200 km gas pipeline is cheaper than 8000 km ???

i think you should read a bit your own glibber to see what hate comments are

Quote:

Mostly all middle east terror stems from Tehran. Make sure you continue to honor the Obama / Iran deal with Iran - which supplies funds to Iran / Nasrallah-Hezbollah in Syria. Shall I expand on Israel's bombing of Iranian missiles right outside of Damascus.

completely wrong.

most terrorists are financed by trumps friends saudi arabia.
iran have the same problem with isis as the rest of the world because isis AND saudies
are sunits and iran is one of the few shiite countries in the region.

go and educate yourself before you post your nonsense.

Quote:

In short, Germany purchases it's energy from world hated Russia while trying to conduct business with terror country Iran.

if we would buy only from non hated countries we should stop to trade with US first.

trading is not a war and have nothing to do with human rights or political affairs.

nobody sticks out their own eye because the other cannot see blood

if countries no longer trade with each other because they have different political views, then trade should no longer even take place within the USA because the states have such big political discrepancies

Quote:

Shocking why Trump no longer sees value in Germany.
Under the Obama administration countries have been getting away with shit for way too long. Funny how everyone finally shows their true colors when confronted.
Drain the swamp!

i think you completely misinterpret the situation.
the USA is in trouble and losing allies - Germany does not.

and Geramyn is a fee country - they can decide with who they want to trade - they do not need advise from an old fart.

and this is just the start of it because in a few months you will already see what trump made with your economy.

don´t cry than and say it is Germany´s or the EU´s fault.
you are now in the situation to prove how good you can exist without friends, trading partners and allies.
I am looking forward to see the result.

the agreement was that the EU countries will rise their OWN MILITARY BUDGET UNTIL 2014 IN THE NEAR OF 2%

can you show me something else ????

while the military spending in Germany in the crisis have been around 3,5 % of GDP
it went down when the crisis ends and Germany started to pay back debts (what you always forget to do)
The agreement we are talking about was made in 2014.

In 2014 the budget was at 1,18% increased til 2017 to 1,24 % and will be in 2018 on 1,5%
and we still do not have 2024.

SHOW ME ANYTHING that proves me wrong.

if i would me Merkel I would decrease the budget now and tell the clown to fuck off.
but I am not such a good diplomat as she is.

He says every meeting is great. I get that you have a side but some objective ness is good.

There is no objectiveness with the alt-right hate fake nic Russian troll.

None of his fake nics are objective.

He tows the line straight up:

1) Pro Russia

2) Anti American

3) Pro Trump ( because he wants Trump to weaken America )

4) Anti EU

5) Anti NATO ( because it weakens the EU )

6) Pro BREXIT ( because it weakens Britain, which weakens the EU )

7) Anti Russian sanctions

8) Pro racism ( because it weakens America )

9) Pro sexism ( because he's an incel )

10) Xenophobic ( because it weakens America & the EU )

He hasn't deviated from any of these points with any of his alt-right hate fake nics the last 2 years.

When you corner him with logic he'll do at least one of the following:

1) Blame Obama

2) Blame Clinton

3) Change the subject

4) Stop responding

5) Gang up on you with the fake nics, personally insulting you (against GFY TODLS )

6) Make a thread & or poll about you personally attacking you & ganging up with his fake nics ( against GFY TOS )

There's honestly no substance or integrity with the troll. He just spews propoganda & hate with minimal counterpoints, he doesn't have the intellect to logically discuss any point to it's logical conclusion because he's programmed based on emotion, not logic.

There is no objectiveness with the alt-right hate fake nic Russian troll.

None of his fake nics are objective.

He tows the line straight up:

1) Pro Russia

2) Anti American

3) Pro Trump ( because he wants Trump to weaken America )

4) Anti EU

5) Anti NATO ( because it weakens the EU )

6) Pro BREXIT ( because it weakens Britain, which weakens the EU )

7) Anti Russian sanctions

8) Pro racism ( because it weakens America )

9) Pro sexism ( because he's an incel )

10) Xenophobic ( because it weakens America & the EU )

He hasn't deviated from any of these points with any of his alt-right hate fake nics the last 2 years.

When you corner him with logic he'll do at least one of the following:

1) Blame Obama

2) Blame Clinton

3) Change the subject

4) Stop responding

5) Gang up on you with the fake nics, personally insulting you (against GFY TODLS )

6) Make a thread & or poll about you personally attacking you & ganging up with his fake nics ( against GFY TOS )

There's honestly no substance or integrity with the troll. He just spews propoganda & hate with minimal counterpoints, he doesn't have the intellect to logically discuss any point to it's logical conclusion because he's programmed based on emotion, not logic.

Who is this fictitious person you fucking idiot? Any clues? No? Just a mystery?

What is even more comical is that you attribute every view that doesn't agree with your unhinged, manic lie-fest as being "that person".

Crazy how 100% of people agree with you except this one guy. What an amazing fact.

the agreement was that the EU countries will rise their OWN MILITARY BUDGET UNTIL 2014 IN THE NEAR OF 2%

can you show me something else ????

SHOW ME ANYTHING that proves me wrong.

sure thing hateful thommy, this is from the Wales Summit Agreement NATO countries made in 2014, straight from the official NATO url:

Issued on 05 Sep. 2014
"Allies currently meeting the NATO guideline to spend a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) on defence will aim to continue to do so. Likewise, Allies spending more than 20% of their defence budgets on major equipment, including related Research & Development, will continue to do so.
Allies whose current proportion of GDP spent on defence is below this level will:
halt any decline in defence expenditure;
aim to increase defence expenditure in real terms as GDP grows;
aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO's capability shortfalls."

Must all people choose between Germany uber Alles or America First, or are there alternatives?

All go nuts in those political topics. I can only say Trump has right about the 2% if you look in what state the Dutch army is in.
We wouldn't even stand longer than 1 day when the enemy cross the border. Shouting pang Pang pang cause the goverment even doesn't buy bullets.
The Dutch soldiers go on mission without proper equipment. They even buy their own bulletproof jackets in the dumpstores themselves...
And many many other stories how bad it is cause the government spent less and less while the soldiers went on more and more missions.
I disagree with most missions, better do less missions. But when you sent troops, give them at least good equipment.
Due to EU rules and stupid dutch politicians the Dutch army doesn't even buy the Dutch made bulletproof jackets.
Too expensive. While the USA buys those jackets in the Netherlands cause they are the best! Strange, isn't it.
normaly the USA buys own jackets, but they wanted the best and that are those Dutch jackets.
So if the pressure from Trump make investments go faster in the dutch army, i support him.

And in Holland endless talks about the Joint Strike Fighter. The liberals like to point that out. It is a lot of money. But Holland spent the same amount of money in Healthcare in 2 weeks...

sure thing hateful thommy, this is from the Wales Summit Agreement NATO countries made in 2014, straight from the official NATO url:

Issued on 05 Sep. 2014
"Allies currently meeting the NATO guideline to spend a minimum of 2% of their Gross Domestic Product (GDP) on defence will aim to continue to do so. Likewise, Allies spending more than 20% of their defence budgets on major equipment, including related Research & Development, will continue to do so.
Allies whose current proportion of GDP spent on defence is below this level will:
halt any decline in defence expenditure;
aim to increase defence expenditure in real terms as GDP grows;
aim to move towards the 2% guideline within a decade with a view to meeting their NATO Capability Targets and filling NATO's capability shortfalls."

and what ????? when is a decade finished after 2014 ?
do you have someone in your neighborhood who can calculate that for you ?

you should also read the rest of this paper it is very interessting.

Quote:

We continue to believe that a partnership between NATO and Russia based on respect for international law would be of strategic value. We continue to aspire to a cooperative, constructive relationship with Russia, including reciprocal confidence building and transparency measures and increased mutual understanding of NATO's and Russia's non-strategic nuclear force postures in Europe, based on our common security concerns and interests, in a Europe where each country freely chooses its future. We regret that the conditions for that relationship do not currently exist. As a result, NATO's decision to suspend all practical civilian and military cooperation between NATO and Russia remains in place. Political channels of communication, however, remain open.

and a few more

The Alliance does not seek confrontation and poses no threat to Russia.

Quote:

We call on Russia to engage in a constructive dialogue with the Ukrainian government. We actively support ongoing diplomatic efforts towards a sustainable political solution to the conflict which respects Ukraine's sovereignty, independence, and territorial integrity within its internationally recognised border

Quote:

We commend and fully support the actions of other international organisations that are contributing to de-escalation and pursuing a peaceful solution to the crisis, in particular the Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE) and the EU.

but in your hateful world peace is just a phrase.
for you it is peace and freedom when any idiot can buy a weapon and shoot someone.

No one is shocked that hateful thommy is not man enough to admit he's wrong.

I guess he's cool with Putin invading the Ukraine in their own back yard and taking a large chunk of their territory... so long as Germany makes the obligatory "we encourage all parties to seek a peaceful solution" statement to indemnify themselves as they continue funneling BILLIONS to Russia at the same time.

haha... Germany.... OWNED 100% by Trump! You get 60-70% of your energy needs supplied by Russia. Germany funnels BILLIONS and BILLIONS of Dollars into Russia and then wants protection from Russia.

imagine that. A leader that actually cares about his own nation and it's welfare and that actually confronts these issues head on rather than sitting around smiling for photo-ops and talking for the next 4 weeks about "what great people they are and what a productive meeting we had..."