I am VERY leery of "lifetime warranties" in corporate America. My feeling is the best warranty is the one you never need.

True enough. Even the best warranty is one you'll never want to collect on. I don't like the disclaimer, 'under normal use'. Does that place a legal burden on me to prove that I wasn't doing anything abnormal with the bike when it broke? Short of having a video camera running at all times, how could anyone prove that?

__________________Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.

... when selecting a mountain bike? I've test ridden two so far; one with a CF frame (Trek Superfly) and the other with an aluminum frame (also a Trek, but a different model). The AL framed one felt like it was made of lead by comparison (about 28 lb). It didn't feel 'heavy' when riding it, but it also wasn't as responsive as the CF bike - at least that was my impression at the time. I assume that when it comes to climbing over humps, fallen branches, and steep hills, the lighter the bike is, the easier it is to ride. Perhaps enough to justify the much higher price of CF. What do the experienced mountain bikers here think?

Are you looking at a FS or HT Superfly (what component level)? And, what exactly is the other bike?

I ask those questions because weight is not just in the frame. It's, also, in the components (primarily wheelset and tires) and wheel sizes. There's, also, perceived weight in geometry. You could be on two bikes that have identical components, but, frames can have totally different feeling through steeper headtube angle, fork offset, trail, chainstay length, and BB height. You gotta' be sure you're comparing like bikes, even if you have to go to another shop to do it. I don't think I'd scour the geometry charts of a bike, looking at all the little nuances. If the one bike feels the best of all that you've ridden, then, go with that one.

I, also, look at one's self. I'm no 3% body fat, stud. Before I go scrutinizing every ounce of a bicycle, I need to first work on myself. However, there's definitely a difference in the weight one feels from a bike. I went from a 3.5" travel, 26" XC bike to a 5.5" travel, 29er trail bike. I truly miss the light and compact feeling of my XC bike.

I've ridden nearly all the trails at Santos, from just outside Dunnellon to ~8 miles east of HWY 441. That's a really nice trail system. The week I was there, they had XC races, at the course by the Santos TH. Looked like all the fast guys were on a 29er HT.

Santos Bike Shop, on 441 (around the corner from Santos TH), has Giants for rent or demo. Greenway Bicycles, right across the street from Santos TH (SE 80th Street), has Niner bikes for rent or demo. If you're looking at a 29er, I'd highly encourage you to try a Niner. Greenway is a really cool shop, too. I went in there to buy a different seat. They openly welcomed me, offered me use of their tools, offered me a beer, offered me a demo on their Niners (I was on my new Specialized 29er). They were like a bunch of guys just hanging out in the garage.....in flip-flops, no less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius

Trek has a lifetime warranty on all their CF frames. If they break under 'normal use', they'll replace them for free. I assume they wouldn't have a warranty like that unless they've tested these frames under pretty severe conditions.

My buddy broke his Gary Fisher's CF swingarm. Trek warrantied it, with no hassle. They gave him a '12 Fuel EX 9 frame, which is a much nicer/better frame than his HiMod Pro. Unfortunately, he was on the hook to get the fork setup to the new frame.

Trek has a lifetime warranty on all their CF frames. If they break under 'normal use', they'll replace them for free. I assume they wouldn't have a warranty like that unless they've tested these frames under pretty severe conditions.

When did they go back to a lifetime warranty? Back in 1996 when I was working at a Trek dealer, they reduced their lifetime warranty to 5 years on carbon and suspension products.

__________________Call me Mel. Some years ago- never mind how long precisely- having little or no money in my purse, and nothing particular to interest me at home, I thought I would ride about a little and see the other parts of the world. It is a way I have of driving off the spleen and regulating the circulation.

Are you looking at a FS or HT Superfly (what component level)? And, what exactly is the other bike?

I'm still undecided as to whether I actually need a FS. Riders around here tell me a HT will do just fine for the terrain we have here in Florida. The only reason I test rode the FS Superfly is because it was the store's demo model. The other bike was also a Trek, but I don't recall the model name. It was a HT, and didn't impress me at all. The Superfly also had really fat tires, which I think would work better in Florida sugar sand. I'm not sold on the Trek brand, by the way - it's just that this particular dealership (David's World Cycle) happens to specialize in Trek.

Quote:

I ask those questions because weight is not just in the frame. It's, also, in the components (primarily wheelset and tires) and wheel sizes. There's, also, perceived weight in geometry. You could be on two bikes that have identical components, but, frames can have totally different feeling through steeper headtube angle, fork offset, trail, chainstay length, and BB height. You gotta' be sure you're comparing like bikes, even if you have to go to another shop to do it. I don't think I'd scour the geometry charts of a bike, looking at all the little nuances. If the one bike feels the best of all that you've ridden, then, go with that one.

I, also, look at one's self. I'm no 3% body fat, stud. Before I go scrutinizing every ounce of a bicycle, I need to first work on myself. However, there's definitely a difference in the weight one feels from a bike. I went from a 3.5" travel, 26" XC bike to a 5.5" travel, 29er trail bike. I truly miss the light and compact feeling of my XC bike.

I've ridden nearly all the trails at Santos, from just outside Dunnellon to ~8 miles east of HWY 441. That's a really nice trail system. The week I was there, they had XC races, at the course by the Santos TH. Looked like all the fast guys were on a 29er HT.

Santos Bike Shop, on 441 (around the corner from Santos TH), has Giants for rent or demo. Greenway Bicycles, right across the street from Santos TH (SE 80th Street), has Niner bikes for rent or demo. If you're looking at a 29er, I'd highly encourage you to try a Niner. Greenway is a really cool shop, too. I went in there to buy a different seat. They openly welcomed me, offered me use of their tools, offered me a beer, offered me a demo on their Niners (I was on my new Specialized 29er). They were like a bunch of guys just hanging out in the garage.....in flip-flops, no less.

I'll check out those shops on a weekend. I definitely need to do some test riding. I know practically nothing about mountain bikes, and I've only ridden through Ocala on a motorcycle, which wasn't fun at all.

__________________Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.

2614 as of today. 264 total in January. A little less than I need to average, but between the weather and a few little health / injury issues, I'm pretty pleased.

The cruelest month was particularly cruel to my bicycling plan. 2780 as of this morning. 166 miles in Feb, for a total of 430 in 2012. That hurt. I should be at 583 already. I need a couple big (for me) months to get back on track.

When did they go back to a lifetime warranty? Back in 1996 when I was working at a Trek dealer, they reduced their lifetime warranty to 5 years on carbon and suspension products.

I bought my Madone back in July, and it came with a lifetime warranty. They tell me all their Trek bikes do.

__________________Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.

I'm still undecided as to whether I actually need a FS. Riders around here tell me a HT will do just fine for the terrain we have here in Florida.

They say that around here, too. However, those around here who've had HTs and went FS say they'll never go back. My take on it is: if you're not racing and value a plush ride, go FS. If you've got deeper pockets, the carbon FS XC rigs are as a light as an AL HT. Also, you may take your MTB on a vacation elsewhere. I guess, for me, the great ride trumps the weight everytime.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius

The Superfly also had really fat tires, which I think would work better in Florida sugar sand. I'm not sold on the Trek brand, by the way - it's just that this particular dealership (David's World Cycle) happens to specialize in Trek.

The wider tires and a 29er go a long way toward flotation. My GF, on her 26" XC bike, didn't struggle, but, definitely had a harder time with the one spot of soft sand we encountered. I'm all for a 29er, in that regard.

Also, check out the Specialized Camber Epic line.

Edit: I removed the Camber, as it's really more travel than you'd need, for FL.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius

I've only ridden through Ocala on a motorcycle, which wasn't fun at all.

Dude, that's an understatement. Fortunately, you'll be on 441 and won't go into Ocala.

They say that around here, too. However, those around here who've had HTs and went FS say they'll never go back. My take on it is: if you're not racing and value a plush ride, go FS. If you've got deeper pockets, the carbon FS XC rigs are as a light as an AL HT. Also, you may take your MTB on a vacation elsewhere. I guess, for me, the great ride trumps the weight everytime.

I definitely won't be racing. I just want something as an alternative for the times when I'm tired of riding on asphalt. I saw a lot of CF mountain bikes for sale on e-bay at much lower prices than what I'd be paying at the dealership, so I may try that avenue. I really don't care if they're used and a little scratched up - a brand new one will look the same after my first few face plants anyway.

Quote:

The wider tires and a 29er go a long way toward flotation. My GF, on her 26" XC bike, didn't struggle, but, definitely had a harder time with the one spot of soft sand we encountered. I'm all for a 29er, in that regard.

Good to know, maybe I should stick with the narrower tires. I've only encountered sugar sand on motorcycles, and it was like riding on wet ice.

__________________Dizave opined: Why do you care where the premises come from? They are above reproach. For all intents and purposes, you can just make up all your premises, since they can't be proven anyway. That's why we need premises.

I saw a lot of CF mountain bikes for sale on e-bay at much lower prices than what I'd be paying at the dealership, so I may try that avenue. I really don't care if they're used and a little scratched up - a brand new one will look the same after my first few face plants anyway.

We've bought 3 bikes, off eBay. One was new, one a demo, and one slightly used (all current model year, though). Only the demo bike had an issue (bent rotor) and the seller made good on it. We've managed to pay ~45-60% of retail, on the bikes. It's definitely a good way to go, provided you know what you're looking at. I guess, demo/rent some bikes. Then, starting trolling eBay and Craigslilst for that model. On eBay, you can go into the "advanced search" and setup a permanent search using the bike brand and model. You'll get a daily e-mail of new listings. Use SearchTempest to troll all the CL ads.

For FL, stick with a 100mm/4" travel XC bike. And, a 29er if you can find/afford it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aurelius

Good to know, maybe I should stick with the narrower tires. I've only encountered sugar sand on motorcycles, and it was like riding on wet ice.

I'd definitely stay in the 2.2"/54mm range. Wider is too much weight to spin up (you're getting into DH tires, the wider you get) and narrower will not give the float you'll need. I'm on a 2.2"/29" and my GF is on a 2"/26". Like I mentioned, she definitely had more issue and is ~50lbs lighter than me.