I don't have the website right off hand here, sinse i need to go to bed and all. I was wondering what ATA is focused on more. I'm not sure if its WTF or ITF. I can ask my instecters on friday. But over all what do you think of the system of ATA Black Belt Acdemy? *See you guys tomorrow*

ATA is ATA, it is a different system with its own set of patterns. ATA Black Belt Academy is considered by most or should I say by most people that respond to questions about ATA here to by a McDojang.

One problem with ATA is the lack of sparring, no self defense, crappy technique is ok, crappy pattern is ok and so forth and so on. Do you get what I am saying? All you need is the money for testing and you are promoted. It doesnít matter if you forget you form, have bad technique or donít show up for class, as long as your money is paid you are in. The only time students fail a promotion test is if they donít break there boards for testing and they get all of three days to practice there board breaks. You can even come in drunk every class and still get promoted. For the Black Belt test you only need to remember one of your nine patterns and break two boards. You donít have to remember or know anything else.

Ok now this is the place that I have seen and know of, I hope all ATA are not this way. Now really ATA has a great program but finding a school that follows the syllabus could be difficult. Really the only thing that ATA is lacking from there syllabus is practical self defenses.

The ATA has nothing to do with the ITF. It was at one time, decades ago affiliated with the ITF (as many where). It also did the ITF Tuls, (as many at one time did, as the ITF was THE governing body long ago) the old fashioned way.

They have long since been on their own & at one time was one of the biggest & most successful MA business organizations. I have no personal experience about their reputation I can share.

I'm an ATA student and the way I'll describe them is inconsistant. Some schools are GREAT, some SUCK!

In my school, I've had some disagreements, but overall, I would say we're one of the best around the area. The head instructor is a 6th degree and is entered in the Masters program. His co-owner is a 5th degree and holds several ATA state & national championships. They recently purchased another local school, which was failing. Their in the process of revamping the curriculum and trying to save the school.

One of my biggest complaints about ATA is the lack of clear cut guidance & enforcement concerning uniform wear. According to the Instructor Manual, trainee instructors wear a 1" red collar stripe (called a collar of responsibility). At a national tournament, I actually saw a WHITE BELT wearing the red collar!!! OMG.. who is she teaching?!?!?!?!

Other uniform discrepancies... belt stripes. We have belts that have a 3/4" ribbon stripe stiched the entire length, down the middle of the belt. If it's black, you're enrolled in the Black Belt Club, which allows you to attend specially designated classes... this one is pretty standard. Another is a yellow stripe - in my school, that signifies a Tiny Tiger (preschool - age 3 to 6)... other schools use it to identify their Leadership program (early training for those that want to be an instructor).

In response to Bulldog's comments...- "Lack of sparring" -- disagree. Though our style is not Olympic sanctioned, we still spar on a regular basis.- "don't show up for class" -- disagree. There are a set minimum # of classes that you have to attend to be able to promote. Our school runs promotion testing the 1st Friday/Saturday, every other month. Your belt rank dictates how many classes you have to attend (gets higher as you get higher).- "forget your form", "crappy form", blah blah blah... yeah, this may be true for the Tiny Tigers and the younger kids but doesn't hold true for the teens & adults... at least not in my school. I'm 37 and I didn't get my decided at my last testing... they were kind to me and gave me a Recommended promotion, only because they've seen me do everything previously in class. Long story... I can share later, if you care.- board breaks -- purple & blue have 1 board break. Green, brown & red have 2. BB has 3. We use the rebreakable boards, color coded to identify the varying tightness of the board, which simulated varying thicknesses of pine board. The green is the equivalent of 1", blue - 1.25", brown - 1.75" & black - 2.25". In my school, a failed board break is a common reason for a "No Change" at a testing.- Black Belt testing - disagree. You are required to know all 9 color belt forms (white, orange, yellow, camo, green, purple, blue, brown, red). You may only be asked to demonstrate 2 or 3 of them at your testing, but it's an on-the-spot decision by the head instructor. There are also knowledge questions (The Songham symbology is based on a tree... What is the philosophical interpretation of the Blue Belt? "The tree reaches for the sky towards new heights." Having passed the midway point, the student focuses his/her energy upwards toward Black Belt.)

Like I said this is the school that I know of. I was an instructor there for two years and I am very happy to hear that your school is different.

World Champions and State Champions really mean nothing concerning ones abilities so spar or preform patterns. If you do not believe me ask you instructor what the requirements are this great honor.

I came to ATA from WTF and I had some Karate experanse as well. I would work out when I could but that didn't happen to often. The first time I sparred I was still out of shape and my timing was still off. I sparred a 1st dan and he couldn't even kick above his wast and I kicked his butt all over the floor and he was a State Champion. A few mounts later I sparred a 3rd degree and he was a world champion and he complained the whole session as I kicked his butt all over the matt. I think many mounts went by and I sparred the School owners wife that was a 2nd degree but I didn't kick her butt all over the matt and she asked me if I was holding back, I smiled and said yes and she told me not too. I laughed to my self and said ok but I still held back. Oh and now she is a 4th dan and she never trained or took classes in TKD. She was never in class and I know because I was there almost all day. She tought cardio kickboxing so I guess that is OK.

I was reprimanded once for mentioning to my students one day in class that for testing they should know all their material and I will be working with them to get everyone up to speed and for testing they will need to do their material if asked for part of testing.

I am happy to hear your school is different but what I said of this school is true. ATA does have a good program but this school was a Mcdojang.

I guess it all depends. There's always good and bad in many things. I have known some ATA folk.

Per the reference of Champions though, one has to consider that (as far as I am aware) ATA is closed...so that they do not spar outside their association which can allow qualitative disparity between organizations since it is a shut eco-system.

On another note, many of the traditional TKD and Korean styles that I know have a 1st degree BB time period equaling roughly 3-5 years. I think 5 years is also probably a good standard for many of the karate groups I personally know...some extending to about 8 years for 1st degree BB.

When I was peeking into one ATA dojang, time to 1st degree BB was explained to me to be a "lengthy" two year process. In any case, one can check the archives. There are some threads about the ATA.

Quote:Like I said this is the school that I know of. I was an instructor there for two years and I am very happy to hear that your school is different.

World Champions and State Champions really mean nothing concerning ones abilities so spar or preform patterns. If you do not believe me ask you instructor what the requirements are this great honor.

I came to ATA from WTF and I had some Karate experanse as well. I would work out when I could but that didn't happen to often. The first time I sparred I was still out of shape and my timing was still off. I sparred a 1st dan and he couldn't even kick above his wast and I kicked his butt all over the floor and he was a State Champion. A few mounts later I sparred a 3rd degree and he was a world champion and he complained the whole session as I kicked his butt all over the matt. I think many mounts went by and I sparred the School owners wife that was a 2nd degree but I didn't kick her butt all over the matt and she asked me if I was holding back, I smiled and said yes and she told me not too. I laughed to my self and said ok but I still held back. Oh and now she is a 4th dan and she never trained or took classes in TKD. She was never in class and I know because I was there almost all day. She tought cardio kickboxing so I guess that is OK.

I was reprimanded once for mentioning to my students one day in class that for testing they should know all their material and I will be working with them to get everyone up to speed and for testing they will need to do their material if asked for part of testing.

I am happy to hear your school is different but what I said of this school is true. ATA does have a good program but this school was a Mcdojang.

I had a similar problem. When I decided to branch out into other arts and train with other styles. I to noticed that I was far superior when sparring than the top students in these schools.

An example of this is between two distinct schools each with their own distinctive art. When I began studying kenpo I was very impressed at their to self defense and their emphasis on rapid multiple attacks. However, when it was time to spar I found my TKD training was far superior. Sure they practiced combination drills and attacking step sparring, but they did not have the extensive training that an olympic style TKD student gets, they lacked training in footwork, sparring strategy, and sparring tactics.

Much of the strikes were delivered using the hands, however, when sparring your hands are covered by pads and the best attack is with a fist. Also there is to consider that many of the strikes in kenpo are delivered to vital targets which is not allowed in sparring for safety.

The other example is an Uechi Ryu karate school my friend attended. They sparred without pads and light contact, no face contact. Hand blows to the head were stopped centimeters before contact. This style is very strong and although has circular blocking which blocks and traps attacks in self defense, they just aren't useful in sparring and their kicks telegraphed. They to did not practice footwork to the extent that Olympic style TKD does and so they were limited with walking forward and the scoot step. A key mistsake they often made was allowing their feet to touch each other, every time their feet made contact I would attack because I know that is when they are best off balance. This is something that was completely oblivious to them. And because they had a limited amount of kicks they are susceptible to high tkd kicking attacks. High inside crescent kicks gave them a lot of trouble.

I've spoken to a couple of other students who study Olympic style who have gone to other schools, they find they are often superior in sparring compared to other styles, even when it is plain oen tournament point sparring. Thats why to me i think olympic style of tkd is unique from all the other styles, it offers something different. They have taken sparring to a whole other level. Of course this is not w/o faults. Because the sparring has developed into a sport, much of the tactics and strategy is geared towards the confines of the game. But still a great deal can be extracted and incorporated into useful self defense and real based fighting.

Ah, didn't know they where not WTF or ITF. Yeah, the ATA I go too is pretty hard on exorcises. O_O But the instectors can't stress enough about footwork. Like balance and such, and not moving them so much. Not rapitedy, you can move them. Just not like to the point where your going to fall. Also, We haven't started nunchuck trainning yet. But I hope theres not a curtain style to nunchucks. I been praticeing on the double back pass, and the wrist spinning, back passing, and such. The neck pass. Sometime what I want to do, when I sparr with one of my instectors. I want to give them a sparring legel attack that they won't totaly expect and make them like. Wow! I can follow my instectors movements and such. Everyone likes to get very close, i'm a destice fighter kind of. Its just annoying, Trying to find a way to counter when they try to get real close, and they have both of there arms over there stomuch. Any ideas?

I do ITF and WTF Taekwondo I The ATA school that I know of have very bad student. A "Grand Master" Of there went to my school and did one of his form and he was off balance and could not kick pass this hips if the is their Grand Master I can imagine how good there student.

My previous post was in relation to an similar experience that someone else had. Here is my response about the ATA. From what I've read, the ATA is neither affiliated with WTF or ITF. It is it's own organization. It is considered one of the main styles of taekwondo in america along with WTF, ITF, TSD and Master Jhoon Rhee's TKD.

From the way they advertise their curriculum and approach to teaching I would say it sounds like a great school. However, because they have decided to form their own organization and have copy righted their forms, and all material pertaining to their style. I would be extremely skeptical about joining them.

There are many threads discussing the ATA and in all of them you will find that most people who have had some sort of connection often feel they are being taken advantage of. there are also those who have never had affiliation but know of others who have once attended or currently attend an ATA school and they have posted their comments and grievances as well.

My advice if you are considering a school, is to investigate, go to the school sit in on a few classes, introduce yourself to the head instructor or school owner. Ask your questions and do not be shy. Remember he is selling a product and you are the customer, ask about prices and hidden fee's. Discuss his history, observe the way they teach and see the relationship they have with their students. Then look at other schools and styles. They serve as good comparisons. This is the only way you know what is right for you. Also do not be tricked into signing any contracts or introductory offers, sometimes these new intro deals cost more money than they are worth.