Do you know what's really embarrassing? Many years ago, Mr Steve Horsley and I ran a website called Bubblegun. Steve maintains it as an archive these days, so it's still out there if you want to go take a look. The writing, inevitably, makes me cringe a bit; it doesn't really feel like me anymore. However, there's one thing in particular that I wrote, which makes me cringe so hard I could burst a blood-vessel in my eye; I wrote a defence of The Phantom Menace.

Yes, I know. I was in denial. I wanted to love it in the way that I'd loved those original Star Wars movies, and so... I wrote that piece almost as a way to convince myself. I was trying to find elements of it to hang onto, to reassure myself it was my Star Wars. History has now adopted the consensus that The Phantom Menace is terrible. And I concur with that entirely.

Actually, no. Perhaps I don't. Perhaps it's more that I think The Phantom Menace, and the other prequels, are just really, really weird. Like, sort of bafflingly weird. Like they were made by somebody who had never seen a film before, and had only a passing familiarity with the Star Wars saga.

Anyway, last year I watched Rogue One, and as soon as I got back from the cinema I wrote about it on Digitiser2000, stating why I hadn't liked it. I saw it a second time a few weeks later, and changed my mind: I did like it after all.

So, rather than pen another gut-reaction piece, I have held off writing about The Last Jedi. It was easier this time, though, because I came out of the cinema last Thursday really unsure what I felt about the film.

I'm still not sure, because there are parts of it - that, as a Star Wars fan, as somebody who likes films - which I love. And there are other parts - as a Star Wars fan, and somebody who writes scripts for a living - that I think are, at best, misguided.

It's fair to say that The Last Jedi is proving - amid Star Wars fandom - similarly conflicted. Critics love it. Fans... aren't so sure. On Rotten Tomatoes it has a 93% critic score, and a 56% audience score. There's a lot of vitriol on social media about the film... and a lot of websites writing articles about why fans are wrong to be angry. It has split fandom in two.

I say this: everyone who has ever written a single thing about The Last Jedi, post-release, is wrong. But also... completely right.

Be warned; there might be one or two spoilers below.

SAD MANI'm not going to get into my own thoughts regarding what I feel is wrong with The Last Jedi. I'm seeing it again on Wednesday, to try and make sense of what I'm feeling, but I do feel... a bit sad.

That's a broader point, and there isn't much we can do about it. I mean, Mark Hamill is old, Carrie Fisher is no longer with us... and she does seem very frail in The Last Jedi. Luke Skywalker and Princess Leia were eternally young in my head... up until this film. Now they're not. And I think part of me is grieving that.

Additionally, there are a lot of choices made in the film, by writer-director Rian Johnson, which seem deliberately designed to turn Star Wars lore on its head. Characters make the opposite decisions to their archetypical predecessors, sacred cows are kicked in the head, moments that were previously full of portent are played for laughs....

And worse still, the big, big questions - the ones fans have been debating online for two years, ever since The Force Awakens - are tossed aside. Literally, in the case of Luke Skywalker's lightsaber. In short: we were warned that it wasn't going to go the way we expected, and the filmmakers delivered on that. It's a ballsy, bold, brave, approach.

However, I think that's where this schism was formed; none of the fan theories about, say, who Rey's parents were have proven to be correct. Rey is a nobody, her parents were nobodies, and so the moment where that's revealed - for a lot of people - has proven to be unsatisfying.

Thing is, the way it has been handled hasn't helped the issue. The question was set up in The Force Awakens, by JJ Abrams, to be important. Johnson decided he wasn't interested in that. It's like being teased with a massive, wrapped, box under the Christmas tree.

What's inside? Your mind races with possibilities... but when you unwrap it there's just a single Curly-Wurly rattling around inside. Yeah, Curly-Wurlys are nice and all... but why bother wrapping it in a massive box that promised so much more?

It's like... in having theories that they've invested in emotionally, dismissed in such a manner, these fans are reacting as if the filmmakers have dismissed them personally. And it doubtless hurts all the more, because they've been dismissed by something they love.

BIG QUESTIONSIt's typical of how this film plays all of the big questions from The Force Awakens; who are Rey's parents? Who is Snoke? Who are the Knights of Ren? What's it going to take to get Luke back into the fight? How did Maz Kanata come to be in possession of Luke's "laser sword"? These questions are either ignored, subverted, or the answers are treated as unimportant.

Unfortunately, they are important - more important than the way in which Johnson handles them - to the millions of fans around the world who have been waiting two years for the answers. Those two years were filled with endless debate, and pretty much every possible theory was entertained... except for the theories that would've disappointed. Because nobody wanted those, and yet... those are the ones we got.

So who's at fault here, for the film proving so divisive? Well, the fans hold a degree of responsibility, for getting so worked up about the possibilities. When I was a kid, we all talked about the cliffhanger at the end of The Empire Strikes Back in the playground at school, but nobody at school wanted to talk about it as much as I did. Now, kids like me have message boards, social media, and geek websites full of likeminded souls, and the theories feed into one another, and build, and stoke the embers.

And yet, you can't really blame the fans for that. Star Wars is important for a lot of us. We grew up with it. That galaxy far, far away was a place we could all go to when school, when life, got too much. It's the ultimate safe space - somewhere we were never betrayed. We feel like we own it.

So, Rian Johnson is to blame for not taking all of this into account? Well... yes. It has been widely reported that this is his Star Wars film. He was allowed to make a movie which was his personal reaction to The Force Awakens - and not necessarily continue the story in the way that JJ Abrams and LucasFilm intended or expected. This is the way he thought The Last Jedi needed to play out.

And yet... he has every right to do that, just as George Lucas had every right to make the Star Wars prequels the way he did, for better or worse. I'd always take a personal movie over one that has been designed by committee.

THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE FORCESo, here's what I think: Star Wars fans have every right to be pissed off.

I also think Rian Johnson did what was right by him (no small feat, given the importance of the Star Wars brand to Disney and LucasFilm). Ultimately, it's just a movie series, and though it's deeply, profoundly, important to some of us - in ways that others find hard to understand - it's not a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

Nevertheless, our reaction to it - our personal, individual, reactions - have every right to exist too. You're not going to convince someone that they're wrong to feel whatever they feel about The Last Jedi. Let people feel it, and don't try and deny them, or beat those feelings out of them by insisting they're wrong; it's a visceral, gut reaction. It might even change over time. But you're not going to change someone's feelings by forcing them to change.

Feelings are undeniable. They are never "wrong". They are an emotional reaction, rather than a logical one. You are never at fault to feel what you feel, because feelings are the unique product of any given individual.

Likewise, Rian Johnson is not wrong to make his Star Wars film his way; because only he can do that. We might think his choices are wrong, in relation to who we are, but his choices were not wrong for him - any more than your feelings are wrong for you.

We need to own who we are, we need to own our experience, and neither deny that we're right or try and convince ourselves, or others, that they're wrong to feel what they feel. On the other hand, feelings are entirely subjective too - they might not be wrong, but they're not right either.

Yeah, this is pretty much how I feel too.
The main issue for me is that I don’t have any real issue with either TFA or TLJ as individual films (Starkiller Base aside, that was a homage too far) but that this trilogy would be far, far richer of the creatives behind it had had to truly collaborate to make a coherent trilogy.
I buy the “art of” books, and it’s staggering that while these films are incredible feats of creativity, craft, shared ideas etc, that each film is completely it’s own thing. TFA And TLJ should enrich each other, instead they each weaken the other film.
I feel like I get what Johnson is doing, but it also feels like he put an entire trilogy’s worth of story in one film, and it’s hard to escape that he probably ended it as he did because that very freedom he was given to continue JJ’s story, made him want to get everything he wanted to happen into his film. Effectively, he has only really left a massive fight between Ben and Rey as a plot point - everything else is pretty much a blank slate.

Reply

Steve

18/12/2017 09:21:02 am

*arguably a spoiler in this*

It was quite strange leaving the cinema. I had essentially enjoyed the film - full of action and humour, it was entertaining. That being said, I felt I had just left a funeral. Not a sad, painful one, but a memorial service where I had a chance to reflect on the past, remember what I loved about SW, and move on.

SW is now being written for a new generation of fans. it's been rebooted so they have their own trilogy, toys, bed spreads, lunchboxes and flamethrowers to grow up with.

Personally I'm done with the new SW, my favourite characters have gone, and admittedly they don't quite get the happy ending anymore they once had in ROTJ. I'm not angry or fan-boy-raging either, I completely understand, and that's that. I don't need to watch any more SW, it's moved on and oddly, I'm completely OK with that.

Reply

Hamptonoid

18/12/2017 12:51:59 pm

I know what you mean, I didn't dislike it, but I felt pretty disappointed that this came on the back if rogue one, which I felt was excellent. One of the best, even, as it linked stories together brilliantly. The thing that I didn't like about TLJ was that I can just see it running forever now by just rehashing the same formula.

Reply

Norbert

18/12/2017 09:23:00 am

I think the problem is the constant us of the internet means that you have thousands of people data mining every scrap of information, so if something is foreshadowed then it will be revealed.

Look at Game of Thrones - back before we were online all the time (when the first book actually came out) a few people may have had a few ideas about what was going to happen, they may have even had a few mates to chat about them with. People would be right about something and not others and the chances are that most people would not be involved in the conversation at all, experiencing the story as it is revealed. But now the conversation is global, with thousands of people highly invested in it all testing each others theories, until we get to the point where anyone who has been tempted to read anything online is almost certain of Jon Snow's parentage, making the reveal of something that has been set up feel like a disappointment. In this environment, anything popular which sets up something and has enough time between episodes for people to think about will be revealed unless a sharp left turn is taken away from expectation.

To be honest I was happy with the reveal of Rey's parentage and Snoke's dismissal - none of the fan theories which were floating around were at all satisfying. Having Snoke be Darth Plagueis or Obi Wan being Rey's father not only wouldn't make much sense but they would have made the universe smaller. Like having Darth Vader build C3P0

Reply

Biscuits

18/12/2017 09:33:26 am

Best bit was the massive tip o' the hat to Agent Kington and On Cinema!

Reply

Spiney O’Sullivan

18/12/2017 10:42:09 am

What was that? Something to do with the master hacker guy?

Reply

Biscuits

18/12/2017 11:45:50 am

Yeah, the 'master of codes' - explicitly Agent Kington's title in Decker (the joke being that it is an extremely flimsy archetype for a character - in Turkington's case the arbitrary 'skill' is based on his real-world talent, labelling and categorising VHS tapes).

Spiney O'Sullivan

18/12/2017 02:33:31 pm

That's great. This is what all us Gregg-heads needed to cheer us up after the disappointing result of the Electric Sun 20 trial.

Chris Dyson

18/12/2017 06:31:20 pm

Tim is innocent so get over it. It was all the responsibility of Dr San (RIP).

Spiney O'Sullivan

18/12/2017 08:34:14 pm

Even if Tim isn't a murderer (as well as a fraudster and possible serial arsonist), he should still be jailed for crimes against art. Decker vs Dracula could have been brilliant.

Biscuits

19/12/2017 09:28:38 am

Couldn't agree more, a masterpiece in the making, cut down in it's prime. The irony just dawned on me that 'Decker vs. Dracula' abbreviates to 'DvD'...maybe I need to rethink my Gregghead stance after such sloppy labelling...

Nah, Tim's a murderer!

combat_honey

18/12/2017 09:40:30 am

Personally, I found the film to be brilliant – I loved it when I saw it on Saturday and the more and more I think about it the better I think it is. My only real issue is that it sags a bit in the middle and that Finn and Rose’s escapades end up amounting to very little given the time spent on them.

I find it slightly odd that many of the same people who (rightly) criticised TFA for being a re-tread of A New Hope are upset that they didn't get an "I am your father" moment with Rey. I really don't recall there being much of a 'mystery' about Rey's parents in TFA - the issue was just that she was left behind by them and didn't know who they were, and hoped they had a good reason for leaving her behind. So I feel that the fan expectation that she would turn out to be Obi Wan's niece or whatever was just based on the fact that they wanted / expected the new trilogy to mirror the old one, which TLJ subverted to great effect. I mean, it was more surprising, given Star Wars tropes, that Rey is a nobody. And almost as devastating for the character as finding out that Luke’s father was Vader was to Luke. Ultimately it works dramatically better than any other revelation would have and doesn’t contradict a single moment of TFA.

As for the 'mystery' of Snoke, did we really need to know who the emperor was in the original trilogy? Sure, the prequels told us, but at the time of the original films, I don’t think anyone was clamouring to know – he was just Darth Vader’s boss. Again, I think the issue here is that some hardcore fans are used to having the prequels and the old EU spell everything out to them and uncover every last ‘mystery’ behind anyone with even a second of screentime. That’s fair enough, if that’s what they watch Star Wars films for, but I rarely find that specifically addressing what fans steeped in the series mythology want to know actually makes for a decent film.

I do have some sympathy with fans whose expectations were subverted, though. My favourite scene in all of Star Wars is the Luke/Vader duel, particularly when Luke realises he can only win if he stops fighting. So I find it difficult to reconcile that Luke with a Luke who would consider – however briefly and however well-intentioned – murdering his nephew as he slept. But I accept that it was necessary for this particular film for Luke to have a ‘redemption arc’ and it fit in with the broader subversion of old tropes and expectations that the film was focused on.

Reply

Keith

18/12/2017 09:46:53 am

I mostly agree, but the thing about Snoke that was quite important wasn’t who he was, but how, in the post Empire era, he was able to rise to a position of power.
That’s the bit that still doesn’t quite make sense about Luke’s exile (though it’s to some degree covered by the way that he seems to think that the risks of the existence/presence of Jedi, outweighs the benefits; when Jedi go bad, shit happens, and Jedi seem to have a habit of going bad)

Reply

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 10:00:20 am

Yeah, I've gone back and forth on the Snoke/Emperor thing, but we've got to remember that this is a series. We saw the Empire defeated in Return of the Jedi. Where does the First Order come from!? We don't even really know what the First Order is. The Empire is self-explanatory; the Empire is an empire. The Emperor wants to rule. Here Snoke is obsessed with Luke Skywalker - and barely even seems to care about the wider conflict. What does he want? We don't find out. I think Snoke is important in that context, and you can't just rely on books to explain it. Plus, we didn't have The Emperor offed until the third film in the original series, where he is presented as a legitimate threat. Snoke is killed almost immediately - again, in that dismissive way. I don't think it's about being a fan in this instance; for me it's an issue in a wider narrative.

combat_honey

18/12/2017 10:06:31 am

I'll give you that, and that plays into a larger problem I have with these new films - that the power of the First Order seems implausible given how recently the Empire was defeated.

Arguably this is a problem with TFA rather than TLJ, because Abrams probably (understandably) felt pressured to mimic the established set-up from the original trilogy - a master and an apprentice sith running a dominant military empire. So, given that that entire set-up was quite derivative, I was quite happy to see Rian Johnson partially dismantle it by offing Snoke, even if that might undermine Snoke's earlier-implied significance.

combat_honey

18/12/2017 10:19:30 am

That's a fair point about Snoke's motivations, and one I really hadn't considered, partly because the character just bored me (which is another reason I'm happy to see him usurped by the far more interesting Kylo Ren).

Going back to my previous post, I really don't feel that much thought has gone into the First Order beyond "we want a villain set-up similar to the original films". And while it's a problem that removing Snoke means we'll never find out his motivations, it felt more like Rian Johnson was cutting his losses to me - removing an element established in TFA that was an ill-defined, weak re-tread of the original films.

What saves the character for me is the entire scene in which he's killed, and how killing him will affect Kylo Ren and the balance of power among the villains. It'll be interesting to see the First Order go from being a disciplined military organisation to being basically at the disposal of someone as unhinged and petty as Ren.

Spiney O’Sullivan

18/12/2017 10:46:33 am

This won’t be a satisfying answer, but if you want to know more about the First Order, read the Bloodline novel. They’re basically a bunch of people who liked the “order” the Empire brought to the galaxy (including ex-Empire officials), and who worked heavily in the outer rim to build up a power base of planets and soldiers.

We haven’t had anything on Snoke yet, but I suspect that his book will be released soon enough.

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 11:33:07 am

Yeah, I really liked Bloodline, but I think when it matters the story needs to be explained in a film. Particularly when one film follows another, and there's a massive leap between the two.

Anyway, I do struggle with Star Wars books. It's rare I get one I like. Lost Stars is great too. Phasma I gave up on. Zero interest in that character, beyond the cool costume.

Spiney O’Sullivan

18/12/2017 01:55:08 pm

I do agree that the movies could do more to establish what the First Order is rather than relying on the books. Unfortunately I suspect Disney were reticent about doing politics stuff in the films after the mess of the prequels.

I also couldn’t agree more on Phasma. She’s more a neat set of armour than an interesting character. I’m halfway through her novel (which is way too long and just okay), and may just give up given how utterly inconsequential she is in the films. In the book she’s a tremendous unkillable badass who can fight her way out of pretty much anything. In the films she keeps getting bested by the worst stormtrooper since the one who bashed his head off the door in A New Hope.

As with the Legends series before them, the books are hit or miss, and I don’t plan to read them all (while I prefer books about side characters, the new Canto Bight anthology seems too inconsequential to bother with, for example). Bloodline was great, and I’d really recommend the Aftermath trilogy, which fills in a lot of details the episode 6-7 gap.

James H

19/12/2017 07:32:03 am

Bravo. Chalk me up as another life-long Star Wars film that thought the film was great. For me, the series needed a bold new direction, and Johnson delivered that in spades.

FWIW the anecdotal correlation I’ve spotted is that it’s a lot of the same people that loved Rogue One that take issue with Last Jedi. I for one found Rogue One boring and emotionally empty. Which isn’t to say these issues raised are invalid, but perhaps I’m just looking for different things in a film.

On a minor point, I guess one of the things Mr. B alludes to with past dramatic events being given short shrift is looks reaction to being handed his light sabre. As a bit of an Eastern philosophy nerd, I thought this was a great moment. I thought there were a lot of nods to the East, and Zen Buddhism in particular, in the actions of both Luke Skywalker and … well, I’ll not say, but if you’ve seen it you’ll know who I mean

Reply

Hamptonoid

19/12/2017 09:16:49 am

At the risk of getting some "you have messed up" jibes, what exactly is that "bold new direction" ? I didn't get anything particularly bold, and nothing new...not to say that is necessarily a bad thing, I guess. I must be missing something.

The Porridge Master

18/12/2017 09:55:04 am

Overall I really enjoyed seeing it, it was a great Star Wars movie, but like every Star Wars film there were bits I didn't like or not fussed about.

First some of the funny bits seemed a bit out of place, sure they got big laughs in the cinema, but I cringed a little at some of them. I didn't like how Luke was used although Mark Hamill gave a great performance. Trouble is as you mentioned him and Leia are too old from when we saw them last, they are nothing like their former selves at all.

Then like Lost we have all the unanswered questions, that no doubt will not be answered.

The good thing was at one bit I was getting a little fidgety and then it all kicked off and was good again.

Reply

Harry Steele

18/12/2017 10:02:33 am

I've seen the film twice now: the first time I loved the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff and wasn't sure how I felt about the Rebels/Finn stuff. The second time I saw everything seemed to 'fit' a lot better.

I definitely fall into the camp of 'didn't care who Snoke was and didn't want Rey's parents to be someone we knew' so I suppose that helps to explain my very positive reaction to the film: I was lucky enough to have my expectations met (to my surprise).

It is clear to me that J. J. Abrams is more interested in setting up mysteries than having answers for them. I am almost certain that when he created Snoke and introduced the question of Rey's parents he was happy for the next writers to sort it out.

To use your analogy: it was JJ who wrapped up an empty box for Christmas and then expected the recipient to put their own present inside.

To me, this seems at best lazy and at worst insulting to the audience, so I was happy that Rian Johnson threw JJ's mystery box off a cliff and giving us a much more satisfying and profound narrative as a result.

Question for Biffo: as a writer, do you feel that it is necessary to know the answer to mysteries that you're setting up? Or am I being unfair on JJ?

Reply

Harry Steele

18/12/2017 10:11:28 am

Oo, Collider has 2 articles about Snoke and Rey parents that feature interviews with Johnson that reveal his thoughts behind his decisions. Interesting stuff!

Reply

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 10:25:03 am

I think it's a cheat personally. Like Anton Chekhov said: "One must never place a loaded rifle on the stage if it isn't going to go off. It's wrong to make promises you don't mean to keep."

It felt here like the gun was never loaded, or was a fake gun, or was never really a gun in the first place. It's breaking a dramatic rule. I'm all for that, but you have to replace it with something more satisfying, rather than...

"Just wait until you lot find out about Rey's parents!!!"

<Cut to two years later>

"What's that? Rey's parents? Uh... oh, that was never important."

I'm torn over it, because I think it's an interesting decision - thematically - to say they're unimportant, but that's only fine if it hadn't been set up in a way that seemed important. I dunno. It's Star Wars, so I'm probably too close to it, but trying to separate the fan side of me from the writer side... it still feels like the wrong call, and almost insulting to the audience.

Reply

Spiney O’Sullivan

18/12/2017 11:06:16 am

Chekov’s gun is certainly an idea for how to make a story, but isn’t there a risk of making things predictable if it’s adhered to too much? What if the threat of the gun is enough to alter the tone of something without it ever being used? Or if it not being used is the point?

Personally I loved the Rey’s parents reveal (far better than “you are my sister/cousin”). And the sudden death of Snoke. And the black-cloaked goon *not* killing the older Jedi master in their climatic battle. And every other bit where I thought “oh, it’s going to be like the original trilogy”, before the film purposely confounded my expectations. I walked out of the film not having been given exactly what I expected (possibly the very opposite), and I was frankly thrilled about it.

I complain a lot here about how unambitious (in my opinion) the Marvel films have been under Disney, with their samey plots and frequently copy-paste villains who end up dead too quickly to care about. I did not expect Disney’s version of Star Wars to involve breaking the trend of giving me exactly what I expected to the point of boredom. But I’m really happy that it did. It had some pacing issues, yes, but overall, I walked of TLJ very happy.

(Disclaimer: I also liked Rogue One. Too many characters, yes, but they took a real risk with the franchise after TFA played it -for good reason- safe)

Bloofs

19/12/2017 01:36:55 am

One of the criticisms I've previously heard of Star Wars is that it's about an elite (the Jedi) and perhaps this Rey origin as well as Rogue One is somehow an attempt to move away from Skywalkers and Jedi and show the little people

James H

19/12/2017 07:39:33 am

I think there are clues in Force Awakens that Rey’s parentage amounts to nothing original films-wise (Maz’s message to her in particular). That may yet prove to be undone, but for me it works as a resolution as it’s her issue to resolve.

I have a bit more sympathy for the Snoke frustration because unlike the original trilogy Snoke was firmly established in the first episode. The Emperor wasn’t mentioned in Star Wars and had a fleeting appearance in Empire Strikes Back.

That said, we’ve Episode IX to come, so I’m not sure why we’re getting hung up on a lack of answers now.

But I think, narratively, Snoke needed to go to set up Rey and Kylo Ren as the big cheeses of the final episode.

Paulvw

18/12/2017 10:12:20 am

Yes I agree. I enjoyed it, it felt shorter than the running time. There were a few missteps. Got to accept that this film is being made for my kids really rather than me. Like Alan Moore's critique of superhero films characters devised in the fifties for teenagers now being expected to make great stories in films for adults. Doesn't quite fit.

We always seem to assume that the original trilogy had an overarching set story right from the beginning rather than accepting it was tinkered with on the hoof. Same deal with this new trilogy. Perhaps the last film will tie it all up or perhaps it will just be another standalone now JJ's back. Have to wait and see.

Reply

Super Bad Advice

18/12/2017 10:13:17 am

The more I think about the film, the more I actually like it. One of the key complaints seems to be that some of the characters make stupid and/or rash decisions. Well you know what? That's what people do. Hell, that's what Luke did in ESB. Pretty much the whole of the original trilogy is about a bunch of well meaning people getting incredibly lucky with hokey plans (and this is one reason I like Rogue One so much as well - it shows the cost of that 'luck' and that it's not all just magic).

As for Rey's parents - I think it's perfect. I can't think of a better way to move the films on from the Skywalkers than just have her be a person. Not special, other than her force abilities. Not destined. Just in the right place at the right time and willing to step up.

I do want Snoke fleshed out a bit though, if only because his emergence from absolutely nowhere so quickly makes little sense without *something*. Palpatine would have known about someone so powerful unless they were deliberately hidden, which is why I quite like the theory he might be Darth Plaeguis - 'killled' by Palpatine but in fact still alive and lurking in the wings waiting to strike back, then events overtake him and he simply moves into place once his former apprentice is killed.

Reply

Harry Steele

18/12/2017 10:21:36 am

Yeah, I have always been of the opinion that 'stupidity is not a plot hole,' especially in slasher movies where the victims would have survived had they not done this, that or the other.

I mean, we have *all* been in situations where we suddenly think 'if this was a horror movie, we'd be dead right now,' right?

Reply

combat_honey

18/12/2017 10:40:32 am

"As for Rey's parents - I think it's perfect. I can't think of a better way to move the films on from the Skywalkers than just have her be a person."

I totally agree. I love the Luke/Vader story, but I don't want another story that implies that to have some sort of cosmic significance or special power, you have to be part of some great lineage. Having her just be a humble nobody was a great way of distinguishing her as a character, and has made me like her as a character more as a result.

By the same token, I actually like Snoke more as a character now that he was revealed to be (presumably) of little significance. In the first film I was rolling my eyes at how derivative of Palpatine he was, but now it's revealed he was almost a 'red herring', I actually like him/his role in the story a lot more.

I absolutely love the way he was killed, too - misinterpreting Kylo Ren's feelings due to his own arrogance and short-sightedness. It's rare in films for an almost God-like villain to be killed in a satisfying way - usually it involves some special magic sword or spell or something half-assed like that. But the way Snoke was killed was actually really clever, and was centred on what we already knew about Snoke, Kylo Ren, their relationship, and how the Force works, rather than some holy weapon or hidden weak-spot.

Reply

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 11:19:23 am

This is why I keep going back and forth on it. I just read a quote from Rian Johnson saying that finding out that her parents were nobodies was the worst thing Rey could hear at that moment. And in that sense... I totally agree. I mean, I spent three years between Empire and Return of the Jedi insisting that Darth Vader must've lied to Luke about being his dad - and I'm doing the same thing here.

But... I totally understand where Johnson is coming from. Thing is, my issues aren't so much about that - though I understand why fans are upset by it - as to the fact that I feel the ongoing story has been sort of robbed of a certain urgency. That was my main feeling at the end of The Last Jedi. It isn't so much "Wow - where do we go from here?" as "Oh... I'm not sure how much I care about where we go from here..."

Bloofs

19/12/2017 01:39:56 am

I don't mind Rey not being from a powerful lineage but she does seem to be the best at everything instantly including using the Force, with no training. Assumed this was because she was related to a powerful Jedi. But no.

Pablo Watsoni

18/12/2017 10:17:12 am

I searched my feelings and I came to the conclusion that I liked The Last Jedi. I don't want to be too cynical because I believe in the idea of an open mind, regardless of whether I actually have one or not, but I think my favourite Star Wars movie (Empire Strikes Back) is unlikely to be usurped by a future instalment. This is mainly due to nostalgia and having watched too many movies that are essentially the same under the surface. If my assertion is proven false, I'll be delighted. The idea of my favourite movie being one that doesn't yet exist is exciting but [buzz kill] the possibility seems remote.

Reply

McHawkeye

18/12/2017 10:17:39 am

Personally I loved it, for exactly some of the reasons you stated above.

I enjoyed The force Awakens. I enjoyed it a lot; but there is no denying that its simply elements and plot from the original films bolted together with new characters. And that’s fine. I can enjoy a homage as much as anyone, especially to a series of films that have so defined big parts of my life. But I had always hoped that the next one, this film, would stand on its on two feet and be its own master and I feel TLJ did that. It not only found its own way, but it did so by consciously subverting the tropes of the series. To me, that’s brave. Do I think Rian Johnson sat there and thought “well, none of the fans are going to complain when I do this…”? No. I think he knew what he was getting into and did it anyway because it would make for a better film. He gets all the balls. Mine. Yours. Hers. Everyone’s.

The things the fans seem to be moaning about; no light sabre fight (which, ok, true, but there was a kick ass fight with light sabres. Worked for me. And if you really define the films just by that, arguably you are missing something…) Snoke was killed off before we found out who he was! (like we knew who the emperor was before he died. And it lets the actual bad guy be the bad guy. Also, I really liked the Sith-sneaky way he did it.)

My big problem with the complaints (and just to be clear, not that people shouldn’t be allowed to complain and moan. I do it all the time) is the issue with Rey’s parentage.

Let me explain this by explaining the film as I see it.

This film, more than any other in the franchise, is about balance. Light and dark, of course, but more than that. What’s the opposite of reverence? Casually throwing a light sabre away. What’s the opposite of moss Eisley Cantina? A lavish casino. What’s the balance to an arms dealer selling to the First Order? Sell to the rebels as well. What’s the opposite to someone evil with an overwhelming family dynasty on his side? Someone good with nothing behind her. That’s the point here; she is set up in a very literal way to be the opposite to Kylo Ren. Which is surely obvious and surely nothing to complain about when thought through.

I get why people are pissed at it, I get why they want some big conspiracy surrounding it. And I would have loved it if she was a Kenobi or some kind of genetically altered love child of Yoda and Windu (oh, muthafucka you are. Strike you down with great vengeance, I will), but I feel this serves the story better, it serves the greater franchise better. To see her knocked down by the admission isn’t anti-climax, it’s a pure moment of character.

Not that I think the film is perfect. Some of the humour is over bearing, the scenes in Bight were far too long. I don’t fully understand why Ellie Sattler didn’t just tell Apocalypse the plan in the first place. On average, though, I feel its up there with the best of them

Reply

Harry Steele

18/12/2017 10:23:39 am

I certainly feel this is one of the only Star Wars films with a THEME. There's nothing wrong with a roller-coaster thrill ride but in TLJ I felt challenged in a way I was not expecting!

Reply

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 10:29:11 am

See... at the end of TLJ I've got no real sense of who Rey is now, or what her role is - oh, she's the opposite of Kylo Ren! - or what journey she's in. So I've lost all interest in her as a character.

Wanting to understand her place in everything is interesting, but I don't feel there has been any struggle in her getting there. If she has gotten there. Luke had his aunt and uncle murdered. His mentor killed. Got the absolute shit kicked out of him by Darth Vader. His friends were kidnapped. Then he was tortured, and had his friends placed in mortal danger by the Emperor before he became a Jedi.

I don't feel that Rey has earned it. I don't feel like she has suffered enough. She just "awoke" one day as all-powerful, and I don't feel invested in that. It's too easy.

Reply

Mchawkeye

18/12/2017 11:23:30 am

I think her life has been one long struggle though. where Luke had a cushy job farming moisture and bulls-eyeing womp rats down Beggar's Canyon back home, she was a beggar. No home, no family, no place; if TFA did anything, it was to establish just what a pathetic life she has/had. Her journey to this point was trying to make sense of all of that, and now she has finally admitted the truth to her self, she is free.

The end of the film, as Luke carks it into The Force and Rey saves The Rebellion, told me exactly who she is and what she is about. She is the hope that was previously reserved for Luke's return, she is filling his boots. She's the force of light on the side of the rebellion (in balance to the force of the dark variety on t'other side)- something they needed to succeed in the the old films and something that was lacking in the new ones and goes to explain why they suck oh so hard at rebelling. Now she is free of her emotional baggage, I think we are going to see her kicking ass and taking names, the poster child for the rebellion.

MENTALIST

18/12/2017 11:26:37 am

She had a pretty hard life before all this kicked off for her.

In fact, Rey had just about the hardest-knock upbringing of any character we know about in the Star Wars universe. Anakin Skywalker might have been technically a slave, bu at least he was brought up by a loving mother.

But you're a bit right, and it feeds into a criticism of The Force Awakens that she got awfully good at Force powers awfully quickly. Still, JJ has time to provide an explanation for that, and the man certainly likes a homage .

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 11:26:52 am

Yeah, I get she had a hard life, but in story terms her journey doesn't start until we first see her in TFA.

Spiney O’Sullivan

18/12/2017 11:46:57 am

McHawkeye, I started typing something, then realised you’d done a lot of it first.

In short: Luke had a (mostly comfortable if boring) family and a life taken from him. Rey just never had a family or a life from as far as she can remember.

I can see how Biffo feels she hasn’t earned it on screen, because as far as we’ve seen she’s done a bit of light scavenging one time (which seemed easy because she’s good at it) and only really lost one pseudo-father figure compared to Luke’s adoptive family, mentor and hand. But given her whole context, she’s earned it her whole miserable life.

I’ll also accept that she’s weirdly good at the Force considering how little formal training she’s had. But she wouldn’t be the first person in this franchise from humble beginnings and of mysterious parentage to have such a weirdly high midichlorian count...

That said, as someone who saw Star Wars in the 90s, I love the series, but will never have the context of the phenomenon when it was first occurring like Biffo does. The original trilogy and its characters probably mean a lot more to anyone who was there when it happened (which is why I intend to take the inevitable Red Letter Media review with a pinch of salt).

(Disclaimer: I have a Lego Rey on my keychain. And a Finn)

Bloofs

19/12/2017 01:50:53 am

Agree with Biffo. Also if she grew up on a desert planet born from drunkards why does she have a cut glass RP accent

DEAN

18/12/2017 10:42:52 am

Watched it with my wife and son last night and all three of us loved it!

I felt sad, though, like the setting and rising suns - growing up sucks.

Reply

MENTALIST

18/12/2017 11:09:00 am

I can see where Biffo is coming from, but I disagree with his interpretations. Most of the fan theories are contrived and lame, and would have bogged down a big action movie.

It doesn't matter to the plot of the Skywalker Saga where Snoke Came from. But it does matter to the Star Wars universe. Fortunately, there are several longer-form media options for telling that story.

In particular, since Star Wars Rebels is to end soon, but seems to have been considered fairly successful, I can't help but expect to see a third Dave Filoni animated series taking place between the original and new trilogies, that could well make much out of the rise of Snoke and the First Order. It'll probably involve Thrawn, since he's principally a post-ROTJ character in the old Expanded Universe stuff.

With regard to Rey's parentage, and JJ Abrams setting up mysteries, it's probably important to note that JJ Abrams has the responsibility of wrapping up this trilogy. And specifically with regard to Rey's parents, Kylo Ren could easily be lying or misinformed. I'm still curious about Max Von Sydow's character, and why he was on the same plane as Rey.

With regard to what Rian Johnson has done, it was a little surprising to me quite how stridently an anti-establishment message was put forward by the film. What lefty newspapers might call a "democratisation of The Force", and a cautionary note about just what sort of thing The Rebellion are supposed to be rebelling against - not just Space Nazis. Rey's supposed everyman origins are clearly supposed to be a part of that message.

Reply

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 11:43:00 am

The article isn't really about my interpretations (my comments here are though), more about why there might've been such a divide among fans, and why there has been such a strong reaction.

And don't get me wrong; I'm not even sure I'm right. I think Johnson might've done exactly the best thing for TLJ and Star Wars as a whole. But because I - and many others - are so emotionally invested in this saga, we're confused, and finding it hard.

Reply

Col. Asdasd

18/12/2017 11:32:29 am

Look. Fandom is often deeply stupid and frequently blows things massively out of proportion. It often makes me want to set the internet on fire. So I understand the urge from professional cultural commentators to hold it at arms length and chastise its excesses (although I notice that they're much happier to ingratiate themselves with the squeeing throng when they *don't* disagree with the wisdom of the crowd).

But if we drill right the way down, as abnormal as fandom seems, the things that it cares about are very often driven by entirely normal, human responses to the way a story is - effectively or otherwise - told.

If they care too much about speculated relationships, character development, believable dialogue, plot holes, the resolution of teased mysteries, or getting satisfying endings, that hasn't come out of nowhere, nor is it necessarily a sign of 'entitlement', nor has it been borne out of some degenerate urge: it's because stories thrive on the investment people put into them, and these fundamental building blocks need to be put together effectively if you're going to have a story worth the telling (and for the suits in the audience: a franchise worth the price of repeated admission).

Critics could do a lot better than just throw their hands up in the air every time a the masses rise up in revolt, understandable as the temptation might be (which is why I think this is such a good article from Mr. Biffo.) To do so is to miss the fact that underpinning the noise is usually a fairly reasonable signal.

To crusade against a widely, but angrily, held consensus, just because you don't like the anger, might be very worthy and even politically on brand. But where it risks giving a passing grade to something that doesn't deserve it, it's ultimately to the detriment of whatever medium you're working in.

It doesn't do anybody any favours to argue that muck is brass just because it might wind up some manchildren, if that grants license to creators to keep shovelling muck, and only muck, and feel no pressure to up their game.

Reply

Mr Biffo

18/12/2017 11:40:40 am

Yep.

Reply

Bloofs

19/12/2017 01:54:01 am

See Ghostbusters 2016

Reply

Bruce Flagpole

19/12/2017 09:45:10 am

Great post.
I really don't like TLJ. There are a lot of things about it that I don't like.
But I see a lot from those that do like/defend the film (and fair enough if they do enjoy it) where they seem to feel the need to be dismissive of people with criticisms, just lumping them all as fanboys upset with not getting their own personal fan-fic.
People who care about characters and story lines aren't wrong to be upset when a film comes along changes it all.
For me, this film though subverts pretty much every expectation and narrative going into it...I don't find that enjoyable or interesting. In fact I found it all a bit cheap, and tells me that Disney never had a proper new 3 part narrative planned, and just want to churn out more mainline star wars films, marvel style.

Reply

RenderBender

18/12/2017 11:47:26 am

1. Snoke is the name of a Sesame Street muppet
2. I thought those gorp things were people taking the piss on Facebook, they really exist?

Reply

Sean McErlean

18/12/2017 11:57:00 am

I think it's more than "fandom" that didn't get on with it - just chatting to casual fans and most seem a bit put off.

It's a decent film - far better than the prequels and on paper I'd like the shake up. But the execution is a bit flawed, especially in the middle. But fundamentally it's a bad *sequel*. Throwing away some mysteries are grand. But it seems determined to throw away them all. So sharp it'd cut itself, as my dad would say.

Reply

RichardM

18/12/2017 12:10:10 pm

I liked it, not a lot: but I liked it. Would like to know more about Snoke (clone of the Emperor, I’m guessing?), figured Rey’s parents would be someone we’d at least heard of: but I liked the way it was revealed. I liked how crushed she was, and how she did the right thing regardless.

Sadly I was more preoccupied by the silly things, like the best of pedants. Why can’t the Resistance fly any of their ships remotely? Why do all the new weapons and things feel a bit Warhammer 40k? Why does hyperspace work differently now? Why was the casino planet shit? And so on, and so on.

Think I need to watch it again too.

Reply

Hamptonoid

18/12/2017 12:45:25 pm

The appearance of smoke bothered me very much, but also the "silly things" as you put it. Those rebel bombers! And the casino had so many possibilities...i was expecting some mind if upmarket mos eisley, with a different class of scum and villainy. The fact that the star destroyers just seemed to sit around when they made the first escape. And where did all of the money to fund the first order come from anyway?

Reply

RichardM

18/12/2017 12:57:02 pm

I think I can buy the FO being funded by the Imperial remnant +/- the Emperor’s undoubtedly massive slush fund... And it has been quite a long time since ROTJ, so I figure it’s sort of OK.

As far as the hyperspace kamikaze goes, that just fucks space battles. Why couldn’t they defend against a blantantly obvious tactic? I always thought objects in hyperspace were in a different dimension and could only interact with massive objects like planets, stars, black holes, etc. Anyway...

A lot of people say the middle of the film was slow, but I actually thoguht it was rushed: too much story to shoehorn into too little time. I think Canto Bight could be a good location for a whole film, rather than just a chase scene. Think I liked the slicer character as well, I’ve always enjoyed the seedier characters that never really made it into the big films. Slicers, spicers, all that. But - again - maybe worth exploring in another film.

Hoping Biffo will do a massive series of articles discussing every element of the film, for appropriate dissection!

T Toilet

18/12/2017 12:17:58 pm

Overall I have mixed feelings. The casino stuff was all bollocks. Why did Rose think crashing into Finn's speeder was any less suicidal than Finn crashing into the cannon? Porgs are part of the Jar Jar Binks & ewoks continuum and it would be preferable to me if they weren't there. I thought sneaking onto snokes ship with Benicio del Toro was one implausible stealth mission too far. Why did they make the last scene the one of the kid in stable? I got quite irritated by just how much dialogue is cut and pasted fron the OG trilogy.
BB8 turning up in an ATST pushed into prequel trilogy levels of corniness and implausibility.

On the other hand I think Rey is a great character and I liked that her parents didn't turn out to be of significance (there is quite enough nepotism in Star Wars already), Leia using the force was interesting and unexpected and fitting. I liked the way they subverted expectations and forshadowing. Snoke's background no more needs to be explained than the emporer's did in Empire or Jedi. I liked that loss of resistance soldiers/pilots is now acknowledged. I like that this film combined tropes from Empire and Jedi to create a largely blank slate for the next film.
I liked the clear but discreet Bloodborne homages in Snoke's red guards.

I

Reply

RichardM

18/12/2017 12:20:32 pm

Second the Porgs sentiment. The worst bit is that any fan edits removing them necessitate removing just about all of Chewie’s screen time. To have reduced such an important character to comic relief, and just after Solo died, is pretty poor.

Reply

Spiney O'Sullivan

18/12/2017 05:40:39 pm

Say what you like about the Porgs, the Vulptices (crystal fox things) were really cool and I will hear nothing against them.

As for Chewie being used as comic relief, he pretty much always was, so that didn't bother me too much. I figure maybe Wookiees grieve differently or for less time since they're bit more at one with nature. Though this year's Life Day will no doubt be a sad one for the Chewbacca family without Han around to show up half-heartedly and clearly hate every minute of it while Leia sings the traditional Life Day carol.

(Speaking of the Chewbacca family, here's a reminder that Lumpy is canon in the Disney universe)

Jareth Smith

18/12/2017 12:41:29 pm

Not seen it yet. I'll tell you what I thought about Blade Runner 2049 instead - I wanted to love it, but it's mediocre.

I'm with you on this one. In writing my review I came across many of these same questions. My conclusion was that the disconnect between tFA and tLJ is a real and true one. The question I was left with was, whose fault is that?

Conventionally it's on tLJ to cash in on what was left and from a writing standpoint, and I think it's the proper one. There's a lack of gravity in the film, when none of the suspense from previous movies are important then what does it matter if Snoke dies, Phasma dies, Luke fades out on a stone table like Aslan? Some of the snarky humor also helps deflate some of the power that had been building up.

I like the film and found it fun, entertaining but lacking that... force. -da-da-da. Some people will love it because it 'subverts expectations' and goes in a 'brave new direction' and some people love that kind of thing in almost any form, good or bad. It's very process oriented.

The product also exists though and I feel empathy for those people who are, I think, put off by seeing the end of live action Luke Skywalker in this light. When I put on my fan glasses I definitely feel the movie is not as good, and yes, maybe even borderline insulting in the way it treated the franchise character. I mean even his final stand had a straight rip from Dark Empire #1.

So it's an interesting movie, somehow it feels better than tFA awakens but tFA works better as part of a strung together trilogy of films. If this were a book series trilogy would you really want to pick up the third? Maybe. As work that is also very visual I would say yes.

Reply

Leman

18/12/2017 04:29:58 pm

So many of the decisions made in The Last Jedi struck me as being contrarian for the sheer sake of it.

Not because it was one mans vision and personal movie but because he wanted to deliberately go out of his way to be different and or irritate self confessed fans. I can't really get behind that.

Also the Hyper Drive attack sequence outright breaks the entire universe by itself, you mean no one else has tried that before? You mean they could not just use droids to fly ships into each other? The Death Star could never stand up to an attack like that so why not just fly the Falcon into it using the Force?

Why?

Reply

Harry Steele

18/12/2017 04:48:54 pm

Maybe ramming spaceships and/or missiles (with hyperdrives) into your enemies is prohibitively expensive? Seems to me that the rebels could use ever ship they can get hold of!

Reply

Jim

18/12/2017 04:46:12 pm

Personally I think ren was lying and rays parents are not losers,

Reply

MENTALIST

18/12/2017 07:09:48 pm

I think he's perhaps more likely to have been misled than lied to Rey about that, if JJ decides to retcon a bit.

I'm happiest that she isn't related to any existing characters (though at a push, I'd have accepted Ezra or Kanaan from Rebels - Hey, Rey - turns out you're half Twi'Lek!), but I think a little more explanation of why her? could be done with.

Reply

DeadCat

19/12/2017 01:50:52 am

I have a feeling that this strand might be resolved in the next film as them being virtuous every day folk. IE they are not force users or any kind of Star Wars royalty (figurative or literal), but they are good, hardworking people who gave her up reluctantly for reasons that turn out to be unavoidable and perhaps even consequential to the events of the original trilogy or in-between years.
Kind of similar to Cloud's eventual discovery and acceptance of his real identity in Final Fantasy VII (sorry if that seems like a shoehorned reference but it was genuinely what I immediately related it to)

DeadCat

19/12/2017 02:25:35 am

Having had a few days to let it all sink in I'm generally in agreement with a lot of the comments here in that I was initially disappointed, but have warmed to a lot of the creative decisions, most of which have already been discussed.
But anyway...

I actually loved the 'grumpy Luke' stuff. Specifically the bit with him milking that...thing. At first I was startled, horrified even, but what sold it to me was the close up shots of Rey's disgusted reaction (definitely supposed to be representing the audience) and Luke's 'Yeah, what?' face.

Towards the end when the little kid 'forcegrabs' the mop, if they'd had cut there it would have been brilliant, but no they have to show him SEEING A SHOOTING STAR AND HOLDING THE MOP LIKE A FUCKING LIGHTSABRE FFS.

I've seen quite a few articles (and had conversations with friends) about how the film is a 'feminist triumph', I'd love this to be true, but whilst I've had a laugh at some of the 'hurrdurr SJW Star Wars' neckbeard criticism, I don't think it actually succeeds.
The reason for this is that the new female characters, while prominent, are very badly written. Luke, Poe and especially Kylo Ren feel very alive and tangible, whereas Rey, Rose, Admiral Holdo, Phasma are 'Strong Independent Women'. That's their personality. It feels a little cynical and tokenist (Plus they forgive would-be mutineer Poe because he's 'charming' or something?).
Finally I hated the CG animals. I'm not some sort of anti-CG purist (otherwise I wouldn't watch any new films at all) but when it comes to close up shots of living creatures I don't think we're quite there yet.
My issue with the porgs wasn't that they were cynical toy adverts (they seemed like a kind of meta 360 ewok reference in that regard), but just that I couldn't buy the idea of them existing in the same physical space as the human characters. Same with the foxes and the space racehorses. Loved the nuns, but then found out they were people in suits.

In summary; 10/10 film of the decade

Reply

Paul C

19/12/2017 10:40:11 am

"These questions are either ignored, subverted, or the answers are treated as unimportant.

Unfortunately, they are important - more important than the way in which Johnson handles them"

This is the key thing to me. I'm seeing a lot of articles online sneering at fans for having the gall to treat things as important that were presented in the previous film as being important.

You don't need to have concocted elaborate fan theories about who Snoke is to think that, in the context of an 8 film series where the first 6 episodes chronicled the rise and fall of super powerful evil space wizards, *another* super powerful evil space wizard suddenly appearing, having risen to power and apparently corrupted a major character under our heroes noses, is a significant enough development to deserve more than the casual "oh did you think that was important? hahahaha IDIOT" brush off it seems to have gotten.

It's not entitlement to want some actual context for what's going on, or to want episodes in an ongoing series to build on each other in a natural way rather than being a weird tug of war between different creative agendas.

Reply

D Prowse

19/12/2017 08:04:01 pm

Go on ebay and buy an original 1977 X-Wing toy, mint in the box, sealed and never been opened. One of the last of its kind.

When it arrives, tear it out of the box like a 5 year old would at Xmas, then put the X-Wing on the floor and stamp on it until it breaks.

Congratulations, you may now call yourself Disney.

Also I spent the last couple of years defending the Rey character against accusations that she was a blatant Mary Sue. I said that it was just down to poor writing and it would be tidied up and explained in the next movie.

What a total utter arse I look now.

Star Wars is much like the Matrix to me now. With the Matrix I only acknowledge the original and deny the existence of anything else.

With Star Wars I will be generous and include episodes 1 to 3 in my acknowledgement. However, Return of the Jedi is THE END and what happens from there is up to the viewer to imagine for themselves or read from the original canon.

Maybe they don't want me watching anymore. They want a newer generation of kids to sell toys to and are trying to get rid of middle aged nerds like me.

Much like when the BBC replaced Moyles with Grimshaw and outright stated that they didn't want my generation listening to Radio 1 anymore and would be happy if we stopped and moved on!

Ok fair enough. I will grumble but I will do as they wish and stop watching.

I do think "journalists" who criticise me for grumbling can absolutely go do the proverbial to themselves though. I am not "taking it too seriously". This was one of the most influential things of my childhood. The early 80's and those years at Primary School were dominated by Star Wars. You just don't spit on a persons childhood memories man.

You can move things forward for the new generation whilst paying hommage at the same time to keep the original fans (the fathers who are buying the tickets for their kids) engaged.

Reply

J. E-Jones

20/12/2017 10:05:21 am

Calm down David, the Holiday Special coughed on and flushed your childhood memories face down the toilet as early as 1978. Then came the Phantom Menace, Bombad racing, the vodafone adverts, all the other shitty prequels and only now are you drawing the line? The last jedi is hardly worse than any of those.

Reply

Spiney O’Sullivan

20/12/2017 11:57:39 am

A year or so ago I was listening to Radio 2, and a woman wrote in to request some club dance music track from her wild Ibiza heyday in the 90s so she could now listen to it while she does the ironing. It will happen to all of us, and probably should because we can’t be 17 forever if we hope to be functional people rather than Peter Pan figures.

Also nobody “spat on your childhood” or whatever. They made a new movie in one of the most commercialised franchises ever.

D Prowse

22/12/2017 01:18:33 pm

I don't accept "its commercialised" as an excuse for being so terrible.

I was also a huge Transformers fan and let's face it, that too existed to sell toys.

But compare the animated movie from the 80's with the awful series of live action films and you will get what I mean.

DeadCat

20/12/2017 11:01:35 am

'Go on ebay and buy an original 1977 X-Wing toy, mint in the box, sealed and never been opened. One of the last of its kind.

When it arrives, tear it out of the box like a 5 year old would at Xmas, then put the X-Wing on the floor and stamp on it until it breaks.

Congratulations, you may now call yourself Disney.'

I've decided I love The Last Jedi now

Reply

Random Reviewer

20/12/2017 08:31:57 pm

I think part of growing up involves letting go of our investment in retooled pop culture, particularly when it no longer serves our needs. It's a tricky balance, but if we can retain the warmth and gratitude for films that came along at just the right time whilst striking out for pastures new, we should be alright.

Reply

Effervescing Elephant

20/12/2017 09:07:09 pm

I wasn't impressed- thought it was very poorly constructed. I had high expectations too, given the rapturous reviews.

Ultimately, just another disappointing movie doesn't matter all that much to me but I am genuinely confused by the glowing reviews. I'm sure a few years ago a blockbuster this badly plotted and paced would have been shredded by the critics. I'm old enough to remember the original Blade Runner and The Thing getting mauled by reviewers.

I'm also a bit annoyed by the way that anyone criticising the movie for any reason is being attacked and I feel that their criticisms are being reframed as either complaints over political correctness or fanboys not liking things to change. I like things to change but its got to be good or interesting- Twin Peaks this year changed everything and was one of the best things I've ever seen on TV.

We're going to end up with another Ghostbusters or even another Gamergate aren't we? We're all going to be made to look bad, even those of us who only want to politely discuss the movie.

Reply

Nick

20/12/2017 10:55:24 pm

To be fair the original cut of Blade Runner wasn't great.

Reply

Paul C

21/12/2017 09:16:22 am

This is my feeling as well.

The film is at the very least messy and overlong. I don't have a problem with people liking or even loving it - I love plenty of films that are all over the place but make up for it in other ways. But there's this weird denial in the almost blanket critical championing that there are any legitimate grounds to dislike it at all.

Add to that the adversarial tone of the defense, singling out the worst aspects of the fan backlash over and over and holding them up as representative, and the implication that there's some ideological split between the enlightened ones and close minded retrogrades.

It all seems very weird to me. Hopefully in a few months the dust will have settled enough that we can just talk about its merits as a film without having to pick sides in yet another inane internet war.

Reply

Geebs

20/12/2017 11:19:12 pm

I don’t believe I have ever enjoyed anything written or directed by Rian Johnson (including all of the seasons of Breaking Bad after it stopped being good), but “not answering the questions set up by JJ Abrams” is honestly not much of a crime. JJ Abrams never bothers to wrap up his stupid pointless plot mysteries either, so why should anybody else bother?

Johnson probably felt the only choice he had was to chuck all of the pointless, go-nowhere plot points out, so that Abrams couldn’t pull his usual schtik of piling “mystery” on unanswered “mystery” until the whole thing collapses into a pile of meaningless wank.

Reply

Paul C

21/12/2017 09:29:02 am

Problem is, some of the things Abrams did that were thrown out were worth following up on.

Like, Abrams is always accused of being shallow and just doing things for effect. But he made Han's death an important character moment for Kylo, the point where he seemingly passes the point of no return and comes into his own as a villain. But Johnson immediately undercuts the significance of that in this film by having him unable to kill his mother, and as a character he doesn't really evolve at all.

Abrams' supposed 'mystery boxes' were vague enough that they could've been evolved into any number or directions. Johnson's decision to pretty much wipe the slate clean just halted whatever momentum the series was building.

Reply

CdrJameson

21/12/2017 11:00:11 am

I'm a massive Star Wars fan, but an extreme anti-spoilerist - I don't watch any previews, trailers or get involved in any of the discussions (I didn't know Rogue One was set in the original trilogy era until I saw it) - and I found it... OK! Definitely an all-right film. But a missed opportunity.

The Force Awakens was coupled completely with Star Wars, practically being a modern remake, no bad thing to establish trust after the prequels.

The Last Jedi was also completely coupled with The Empire Strikes Back, but had a weird obsession in going against it and denying it.
This white planet with AT-ATs stomping across it is definitely salt, not snow, nosiree. Totally different thing.
There was a big Jedi parenting reveal, but it was 'Rey, I am NOT your father. Nor any relation at all, come to that. Let's put it like this, you're not going to be getting a Christmas card.'

It was still a film that couldn't get away from its earlier twin, that couldn't exist without Empire to kick against. I liked it (Kylo/Rey stuff was particularly excellent), but it still felt far too shackled to the past.
It didn't need to have the rebels being chased out by the Empire and things looking bleak.
It didn't need to have stomping walkers on a white powdery substance being harassed by little plucky rebel craft.
It didn't need to have Jedi mentoring/training/confrontation bits.

Just make a new damn Star Wars film that stands by itself and is its own thing.

Oh, and I'm sure the Empire's first line means they've interrupted the rebels taking a dump.
With Ade Edmondson in the film I cannot see this as an accident.

Reply

Tinker's Cuss

21/12/2017 09:06:06 pm

Does Chewie have a Zombie Dave moment at one point? When he swipes one of the porg thingies off the Falcon controls it sounded to me like he said "rrrrrrrrgg rrrrrrrfff". Anyone fluent in Wookie?

Reply

Adam

24/12/2017 03:36:56 am

I saw it yesterday and (not having read your comment) also noticed that! To be honest it woke me up a bit as I was losing interest in the whole thing...