And it's not like he even shot that well in the Finals. Frankly, the better Rip Hamilton's shooting has got over time, the ball movement regressed, and it kept regressing to the point where we are now...

When Jon Barry can accurately predicted the plays out of timeouts in crucial 4th quarter situations (as well as JVG), its time to change something.

I don't think the defense would be that bad if we just kept BG guarding the opposing ones.

I agree. Why are we worried about the SG position? We need help up front. We have old men trying to hold it down. Getting 5 or 6 rebounds a game from your front-line is not going to win you many games. Also Ben Gordon is not worth 11 million. His shooting % is horrible and he is undersized for a 2 guard at 6 ft 3.

Click to expand...

Sometimes the indirect route is the quickest in results: think time, age, and potential growth.

You might need time sharing for the 5 position: you can't piecemeal overpriced big men that can not adapt to the current flow of the game.

The future stars will not be directly out of HS. Just the opposite and then some. You have to be solid at any position that involves three quality players..the rest will follow.

The 1, 3 and 4 positions are your transitional keys.

The 3 and 4 should have enough opposites to make match-ups a nightmare.

The Gordon move--if it happens is not about shooting guard versus big. It is about a complete makeover of the team with the first major piece. What is a major piece? A player who can do something others can't. Ben Wallace was a major piece but oh how many limitations. Gordon can score against the best defenses in the playoffs with or without the ball. How many players in the NBA can do that? No one on the current Pistons--that is for sure. Not many non-super stars can score no matter what. Gordon is no superstar but he has that quality. And he is young. Yes, Gordon has limitations. But Gordon is just one piece in the mix. It is the mix that will be the key.

Rip has very few peak years left. He has already slowed down some.

I watched Joe Johnson in the playoffs and he was shut down for the most part unlike Gordon.

The Gordon move--if it happens is not about shooting guard versus big. It is about a complete makeover of the team with the first major piece. What is a major piece? A player who can do something others can't. Ben Wallace was a major piece but oh how many limitations. Gordon can score against the best defenses in the playoffs with or without the ball. How many players in the NBA can do that? No one on the current Pistons--that is for sure. Not many non-super stars can score no matter what. Gordon is no superstar but he has that quality. And he is young. Yes, Gordon has limitations. But Gordon is just one piece in the mix. It is the mix that will be the key.

Rip has very few peak years left. He has already slowed down some.

I watched Joe Johnson in the playoffs and he was shut down for the most part unlike Gordon.

Click to expand...

Smokin' hot post lapiston. Smokin'.

I've been one of the few (the only until now?) ones around here advocating the acquisition of Ben Gordon for several weeks now, but could never articulate things nearly as good as you have just done so in that one post. Props.

The Gordon move--if it happens is not about shooting guard versus big. It is about a complete makeover of the team with the first major piece. What is a major piece? A player who can do something others can't. Ben Wallace was a major piece but oh how many limitations. Gordon can score against the best defenses in the playoffs with or without the ball. How many players in the NBA can do that? No one on the current Pistons--that is for sure. Not many non-super stars can score no matter what. Gordon is no superstar but he has that quality. And he is young. Yes, Gordon has limitations. But Gordon is just one piece in the mix. It is the mix that will be the key.

Rip has very few peak years left. He has already slowed down some.

I watched Joe Johnson in the playoffs and he was shut down for the most part unlike Gordon.

Whatever happened to the Hamilton who could shoot threes? He shot 46% and 44% in 05-06 and 07-08, but 30%, 34% and 37% around those years. That 46% would put him at the top of the league this past season.

Click to expand...

The percentage bounce is radically weird. You could blame it on coaching philosophy/offensive sets except for the 06-07 season.

I agree. Why are we worried about the SG position? We need help up front. We have old men trying to hold it down. Getting 5 or 6 rebounds a game from your frontline is not going to win you many games. Also Ben Gordon is not worth 11 million. His shooting % is horrible and he is undersized for a 2 guard at 6 ft 3.

Click to expand...

Front court definitely needs help, but swapping Rip for Gordon for equivalent salary might not be a bad idea, especially considering age differential. Shooting percentage, and other stats? Let's look at the past season:

I call shenanigans. Gordon's agent just wants to up the ante. Gotta love the media.

Click to expand...

I agree. I think so many things we read on these sites this time of year are just misdirection by executives or agents, or the reporters severely reaching for things to write about.

My thing with signing Ben Gordon now is that we basically recreate some of the problems that we had last season. We bring in another small guard who will demand minutes and we will be heavy at the 2 guard position. Signing him basically means that Joe has to move a guard via trade, which would most likely end up being Rip. This puts Joe in a weak negotiating position with other GM's, so he might not get the best deal.

I like Gordon, but I'm not sure it's going to be the best signing (especially for that type of money).

That's a good point, however if you're putting Ben Gordon in the VJ role he is way overpaid. I don't see the Pistons paying that kind of money for a role player.

Click to expand...

During the Bad Boys era Vinnie averaged around 25 mpg. Over the last 3 years Gordon has averaged 33-34 mpg with stats well above The Microwave. Though he was coming off the bench until this past season, I don't think it fair to say he's a role player.

If you are putting him in the Joe D role he is not in the same league defensively.

Click to expand...

Agreed...he's no Joe D defensively. But this ain't the old NBA either.

During the Bad Boys era Vinnie averaged around 25 mpg. Over the last 3 years Gordon has averaged 33-34 mpg with stats well above The Microwave. Though he was coming off the bench until this past season, I don't think it fair to say he's a role player.

No..I mean comparing him to VJ means he would be coming off the bench. I think you don't go out and sign someone for that money to come off the bench..so the comparison fails.

Agreed...he's no Joe D defensively. But this ain't the old NBA either.

True. But he would be replacing Rip at the 2 supposedly. Is he an upgrade over the taller Rip? Is he a major step in a rebuilding process?

If the Pistons did sign Gordon then what does that say about Rodney Stuckey?

It was reported that Gordon's deal would average 11 million and would start at 9.5. Rip's deal starts this year (?) and would expire or be a salary dump type contract deal when Gordon's starts really ramping up. They have Stuckey for 2 more years on his rookie deal, I think though I'm not exactly sure how it works if the extend him early after next year.

I don't think it is inconceivable to pay all 3 of these guys. Having Gordon on the strong side of the floor may allow the screening for Rip to take place on the weak side. Gordon can also play Rip’s role if he is out there with Stuckey.

On top of all that there sure seems to be an affinity for guards and 3 guard line-ups from this administration.

Excellent. You leapfrogged the iron and bronze ages, flew past the Greeks, and landed smack in Imperial Rome. Great progress!

Click to expand...

I know Roscoe somehow put you up to this. His mission in life is to turn EVERYONE on the forum against me. Usually he gets dummies :nerd2: like Jammer and detteam to help him. However, I see I now have my hands full.