Interview by Galina Vabischevich and Oleg Korytov
Editors Galina Vabischevich and Vasilii Silantyev
Translation by Oleg Korytov and James Gebhardt

-
Please, introduce yourself.

I am
Rostislav Sergeevich Demidov. I was born in Kharkov on 4
November, 1922. I turned 90 this year. I assembled all
those who could come, mostly my cadets, who did not
participate in the Great Patriotic War. Almost all of
them had become generals. Among them was Colonel-General
Deineka. He is my full “god son.” I went to the city
Nikolayev, which I commonly visited after the war, and
noticed a talented young pilot there. 24 years old, fine
pilot with exceptionally well working head. With a lot
of difficulties, I persuaded the VVS Commander and the
Chief of the Academy (Kuznetsov Naval Academy in
Leningrad – ed.) to accept him to the academy. At
that time the screening was very rigid for age and
position. Only squadron commanders and higher could be
accepted, while he was just a regular pilot at the time.
He was still accepted, and I was not mistaken. He was a
very talented and smart man! [Colonel-General V. G.
Deineka was the Commander in Chief of Naval Aviation of
the Russian Federation from 1994–2000 – ed.]

- Who
were your parents?

Dad
worked as a chief engineer at the “Red October” plant in
Kharkov before war, and then he fell victim to the
purges. Mom was a dentist; she graduated from Berlin
University before the Revolution. She came from a rich
family. I was the only child in the family and was born
late; Mom was 40 years old by then.

- Why
your father was sent to prison?

He was
not imprisoned, he did not do time. He was punished for
being an engineer-senior lieutenant in White Army. That
was enough in those days. He was issued a “white card,”
a so-called “wolf ticket,” so he couldn’t work and earn
money. He was stripped of all rights. He was not allowed
to work or participate in elections. He could do
nothing, so he worked in his private garden and yard.
During my last two years in school, grades, I had to
work as a draftsman. Old friends of my dad from the
plant gave me work, so that I could earn something along
with studying.

- What
was your relatives’ attitude toward the Soviet State?

Excellent. Mom worked all the time and was also a member
of а village council. Dad returned to the plant, but not
as a chief engineer, rather an ordinary engineer.

- When
did you choose to tie your life to aviation and the
Army?

You know,
it was in 1940, when we were about to graduate from 10th
grade. It was absolutely clear that there would be war.
We also understood that going to war as a private meant
sure death. We needed to graduate from military school.
So we decided… At first I wanted to go to naval school,
and then switched to flying.

- You
studied at Nikolayev School named after Levanevskii? How
did you apply for it?

Oh... The
path was long. In 1940 I finished school with a gold
medal. I went to Leningrad and was accepted without
exams to Dzerzhinsky [Navy - ed] School. But
there I was sent to clean toilets, which my pride
couldn’t allow, so I quit.

Rostislav Demidov as a
flight school cadet

- But
didn’t all cadets have to do this in their turn?

Yes, it
was common work. But I did not like it. So I went to
Levanevskii School, where the toilets were cleaned by
people hired for that task. We had only to study.

- How
did you make it to the flight school? How did you pass
exams and mandatory [medical] commission?

I had
left Leningrad Naval School named after Dzerzhinsky with
a medical diagnosis that I had a punctured eardrum. When
I passed the medical commission at the flight school,
none was found. To be honest, I had faked it. I wanted
to leave naval school; I didn’t like situation there. I
took my documents and left for Nikolayev straight away.
There were no problems with acceptance, since I had a
gold medal. I was accepted without exams and studied
with pleasure.

- Do
you remember how many regiments there were in the
school?

There
were two regiments. One was equipped with the MBR-2, the
other with the R-5.

- How
many airplanes were in these regiments?

I can’t
recall. I believe about 30 in each, but I may be wrong.
I was assigned to the MBR-2 regiment.

- How
would you describe this airplane?

It was an
awful aircraft, a constant source of trouble. It was
built out of thin plywood. It had a 108 lb. anchor, so
that it would not drift when sanding at sea. After
touchdown the navigator, that’s me, had to get out of
the cockpit and drop this anchor into the water. When it
was released, it tended to fall to the fuselage side
instead of the water. Water could get into the fuselage
and the airplane would sink very rapidly. Of course, we
tried to avoid this problem [laughs – ed.]
When we were taking off, the most dangerous things were
“deadheads” – water-soaked logs in the vertical
position. If we hit one, it would be all over. At take
off a huge amount of water poured at navigator, who had
to stand in the open cockpit, looking out for those
logs. The water was cold, but we still did not catch
flu, even though we got up to altitude in wet clothes.

-
That’s when you were cadets?

Yes, when
we were cadets. When we graduated, 20 men were sent to
the Far East, where we were sent to different units. I
was sent to the mine–torpedo regiment.

- When
did you graduate?

It’s
difficult to say, I had forgotten… The war went on for a
long time.

- How
did you find out that war had broken out?

When the
war began, we were still studying; everything was
terrible, chaos, confusion. We were issued weapons and
sent after German spies in Nikolayev. We walked on
patrols.

- Were
squadrons or regiments formed on the basis of your
school? Were cadets included along with instructors?

There
were such squadrons, but I didn’t see this. We were sent
to the rear before that. Mostly they were equipped with
instructors, but some cadets were present. I knew one
guy, Valentin… I can’t say, if he is alive or has died
already... He flew to Stalingrad. A squadron formed from
our school and equipped with the MBR-2 bombed the
Germans in Stalingrad.

-
Where you were sent to from Nikolayev?

1Some of
us flew with the airplanes and others were sent by
barges. Along with my comrades, I arrived in Stalingrad,
where we were loaded on barges and sent to Astrakhan. I
remember that well. The barges were loaded with bags of
sugar and barrels of herring. For almost a month we
traveled from Stalingrad to Astrakhan. We were not fed,
there was no bread at all, and so we ate salted herring
and drank tea with sugar.

-
Those who were training on the MBR-2 were sent to
Astrakhan, but where were those who were training on the
R-5 sent?

I don’t
remember. I can say for sure that there were 200 men on
board our barge.

- Did
you make training flights in Astrakhan? Were there any
airplanes?

We were
not in Astrakhan very long, a couple of weeks, maybe. We
had no airplanes and thus we did not fly. We slept in
fishing nets and ate fish. It was somewhat of a transit
center. Then we received documents about graduating from
school, and we were sent to the Far East by freight
train. We traveled for two month to get there. I truly
trained in the regiment there.

- Was
there some kind of graduation ceremony?

There was
no time or need for that; we simply were issued
documents.

- As
far as I know, Nikolayev aviation flight school was
evacuated first to Mozdok and then to Bezenchuk.

Yes, I
begin to recall… I was in Bezenchuk, but for a very
brief period of time. Then – Stalingrad and Astrakhan.

- Were
you bombed or did you see Germans before evacuation?

No. We
were evacuated before the Germans reached Nikolayev. We
were sent out to conduct anti-parachutist patrols at the
airfields and mock-up air bases, but there were no
actual engagements with Germans.

-
Could you tell us about these mock-up airfields? Were
they air bases of the Levanevskii School?

From
Nikolayev we were sent to Yeisk. There we were supposed
to train. It was a school named after Stalin that
trained fighter pilots. We had to guard mock-up bases.
There, in Yeisk, were sandy islands on which false
airfields had been constructed. Broken, written-off
airplanes were dragged there, and machine gun nests were
placed around it. Old turrets with machine guns were
removed from damaged and destroyed airplanes. So we
patrolled there. The Germans attacked them, while we
shot at the Germans. Of course we did not shoot down
anyone, but we fired.

- Were
you set up on Yeisk Spit?

Yes,
right there in Yeisk, on the spit, our entire operation.
Around us were airfields and islands.

- Were
you transferred from Nikolayev to Yeisk with airplanes?

We flew
with a small portion of the planes.

- What
did you know about the prewar conflicts — Spain,
Khalkhin-Gol, Finland?

Only
general information…

- You
had MBR-2 and R-5 airplanes in your school. Were you
given any information about other types of airplanes?

No, only
these two types. When we arrived in the Far East, we
began studying the DB-3, which we later had to fly.

-
There was a navigator,
Gregory Avanesov, in St.
Petersburg, who used to fly the MBR-2. Did you know him?

Gregory!
Of course I knew him; he used to be my best friend. He
was an anti-submarine warfare navigator with the MBR-2
squadron.

- He
told us about a special aiming technique, used with
MBR-2 – by machine gun sight. Did you use this method?

No, I
never used machine gun as bombsight. We did not use it
that way.

- Was
training cut back after the war began?

Yes, it
was shortened. We were not fully trained, and that’s why
we were sent to the Far East. There we got a year of
good practice.

- You
were sent to DB-3F there?

No, we
began flying the DB-3B, that’s with the short nose. We
were divided among crews as “understudies” of the
navigator. This airplane had a drastic flaw. We flew at
high altitudes there, and it had two machine guns in the
nose with large holes [in the plexiglass]. Wind blew
right into the navigators’ compartment. At an altitude
of 9,000 meters, the temperature could be lower than -57
degrees centigrade. It was cold. We had a mole skin
mask, three pairs of gloves, and still got frostbite. It
was a major flaw. This problem was solved in the DB-3F.

- You
ended up in 4th MTAP {mine-torpedo air regiment - ed}?
HSU Minakov also began in that regiment. He recalled
that it was a good regiment with a good school.

Yes, I
made it to 4th MTAP. The Regiment was truly excellent;
my main knowledge was received not in school, but in
this regiment. We were well trained, and that is why we
made it through the war.
Later, many years many, when I was a teacher myself [in
the Academies – ed.], I always said that it is important
not to only get information, but to be able to think it
through. Your move should be thought through, a
prognosis should be made and the best possible course of
action be executed. That is what I taught my cadets
about, and many of them became generals. Some 36
candidates of science were prepared in the faculty at
VMA over a 10-year period. I did not select adjunct
students — “crammers” — as being the outstanding ones. I
believed they were a lost cause — one could not make a
scientist from them. A “crammer” can remember other
peoples’ achievements and knowledge, but he cannot
create his own, new. They are not trained to think.

- Are
you tired?

Yes, I
am. I would like to have a cup of tea. Don’t be fooled
by my active state; I’m over 90 already [laughs – ed.].

- Take
a break. We, meanwhile, will look through the photos…
They are of surprisingly fine quality, even though they
were made by film cameras.

Yes, it
was films. Some photos I made 60 years ago, but now I
have digitized all images and printed them… [laughs –
ed.]. There are a lot of photos of my wife.
I was very lucky to be married to her. We lived together
for 63 year, we were very friendly, and not even once
did we have an argument. I took a lot of photos of her.
We had an excellent family… Here is her last photo,
which I made in 2010... She wouldn’t listen to me, and
died from the complications of hernia. When I brought
her to the hospital, it was too late.
My wife worked all her life, in Leningrad Pioneer
Palace. She headed up the children’s art section. I
still can see her, when I close my eyes. She delivered
me a son, a great boy, but doctors forbade us to have
other children, because she almost died in process.

- Very
beautiful photo. Was she a painter?

She was
an artist all her life long, all the paintings in my
apartment are made by her or by my son. I do not keep
any other painters work.

- All
HSU’s were sent to the artists, so that they would make
their official picture. Do you have such portrait?

I chose
not to go. I have a portrait made by my wife. It was
exhibited here, and even abroad. She drew it in 1957.
Here are photos from the war period. We made them our
selves. I had a Leica during war.

- It
was forbidden to make photos during war time. Were you
informed about it?

We spat
at these orders, and made photos. Our Special Department
officers were pretty smart, and we did what we wished.
Unluckily, very few photos survived, but it is our
fault… Here is a Boston [A-20, also known as the
Havoc, of which the Soviet Union received 2,900 in the
Lend-Lease program – ed.], but not mine; it will be
in another picture.

A-20 yellow 6 -
Gagiev/Demidov aircraft

- By
the way, it is a rebuilt airplane.

Modified.
All the Bostons were rebuilt in Leningrad, at our
aviation plant for navigator accommodation. We couldn’t
fly without navigators.
…This is a photo of my airplane, “Number 6,” in flight,
taken from another aircraft by my friend . It was shot
down by our own AAA. They were based at our Panevezhis
airfield. We had taken off for a mining mission.

- How
did they manage to make such a mistake?

Panevezhis was severely bombed by the Germans then, and
on that particular night they did it again. The skies
were pierced by searchlights. There was panic and
complete chaos on the ground. We came in right in the
midst of it all. We were on final approach and fired off
a flare to mark our identity. But the AAA gunners
decided that it was fascist plane on a bombing run and
opened fire. Our engine was hit. The pilot said to me:
-Bail out!
- I won’t. They will kill me in the air, thinking that
I’m German, - I shouted in reply. -Land!
Eventually we safely landed; we had some bruises and
scratches, but we were alive. The airplane was a
complete wreck, though.
Here is Vyacheslav Balashov [Hero of the Soviet Union –
ed.] with his wife. We were very friendly. We became
friends when I came to Leningrad to work at the Academy.
We lived in a dacha during summer time, where we were a
part of great, cheerful and smart company. My distant
relative Rudolf Ferdinandovich Its, academic –
ethnographer, a traveler with a great mind, was always
the toastmaster. I thought: I have a myriad of tales,
too; I worked a lot as a lecturer and had a good tongue,
why can’t I be a toastmaster? From that time until this,
at all the holidays, I am the toastmaster. Not so long
ago, I was the toastmaster for a friend’s 60th birthday.
There were 50–60 people; it was difficult. There were
children, people of my own age, and some who were
younger — of various ages. I had to entertain all of
them, and I accomplished this task. I came home from
there hungry as a wolf because I spent so much time
telling stories or proposing toasts, that I didn’t even
eat [laughs – ed.].

- Were
you eager to get to the war, when you were in the Far
East, or were you trying to learn as much as you could?

It was
absolutely clear to me that I had to study.
When we arrived in the Far East, we came to “Heaven.” We
had an officers’ club, movies on a daily basis,
concerts, dances on Saturdays and Sundays. Even though
we were mostly young and single, we lived in apartment
buildings specially built for officers. So, it was true
Heaven. Some time had passed, and they tore down the
officers club. We were told:
“People are fighting a war and dying out there, while
you are watching movies here and dancing.”
It was the first sign. The second one was when we were
thrown out of the officer apartments:
“People are living in dugouts at the front, while you
are here showing off.”
So we had to make dugouts for ourselves and live there.
It was simply stupid. It went this way until our
superiors were changed. New commanding officers came
from the front line.

- Who
initiated these changes, military or political officers?

Political
officers. We did not like them. During my entire life I
saw perhaps two good ones.

-
Political officers were divided into two categories: “Do
as I do” and “Do as I say to do.” In the Baltic Fleet
VVS was a famous and universally liked political
officer, Serbin. He flew combat missions and actively
participated in combat.

I knew
him well. He was a true political officer and excellent
pilot. We had another good one – Kalashnikov. He was
removed later, because he was good man. All the other
political officers whom I met during wartime were
crooks.
I remember how at the end of war we were called to the
command post. We constantly had to fly special missions,
because we were experienced pilots. The regiment
commander issued an order:
“I have a special mission for your crew. Fly to Germany,
land at Kohlberg Airfield, which was occupied by our
troops yesterday. You will take a political officer – a
representative of the commander-in-chief’s staff.”
He said that we were to be escorted by 12 fighters. We
were shocked – during the entire war period we never had
such escort, no more than a couple or two. This time – a
full squadron.
So, we made it there, this representative said:
“You are to sit here with no right to leave.” Then he
left the airfield. When he returned, he brought
antiques, paintings, radiolas, crystal...
Supply officers had set up warehouses at the airfield.
All sorts of goods were brought there.

- Were
they emptying abandoned houses?

Everything came from the empty houses; the population
had fled from us. There were special trophy teams that
gathered all this stuff. The political officer loaded
our airplane to the top. We haven’t taken anything. I
brought only a single small ring from Germany as a
memorabilia.
When we were based at one airfield, we had to live far
away from our airplanes, and had to walk for almost five
kilometers one way. We said to our gunner Vaniamin:
“Go to the warehouse and get a light motorcycle that we
can ride to the airfield.”
He went there, but returned empty handed. We went there
ourselves, and said to supply officer:
“Issue us a motorcycle; you have half a hundred there
with no use for them.”
“Well, you know…”
He refused. Later we found a good German motorcycle, a
“Victoria”, and rode it for two years. There was a
radioman, the chief of radio operations of the regiment,
who was of thin complexion and looked like a gnome with
a large nose. He begged this motorcycle from us and went
right through the shop window in Pyarnu. He suffered
some injuries, but our motorcycle was totally wrecked.
The radioman healed, but our motorcycle had perished.

- Were
you assigned to the 1st Guards MTAP when you arrived
from the Far East?

No, not
to the 1st Regiment. We, two crews, were assigned to the
newly formed 51st MTAP. When we arrived, there were no
commanding officers, neither regiment commander nor
squadron commanders. We came to the posts of flight
commanders. We saw “Bostons,” which were flown to the
Baltic from the Northern Fleet for the first time. We
were told:
“You may fly them.
There were no instructors, and there was not a single
man familiar with these airplanes. The non-flying
leadership pressed us:
“You are pilots, so get inside and fly them.”
We searched for instructions, but when we finally found
them, they were all in English! But most of us had
studied German, as we were planning to fight against
them.

- Was
it in 1943?

Yes,
1943.

- I
thought that you underwent training first, and only then
were sent to a first line unit.

No, we
were transferred to Bostons straight away. I can’t
recall which month it was, spring time, I believe. It
was at Novaya Ladoga airfield, where we were stationed
for a long time. We searched for somebody who knew
English. We brought a young female teacher from the
local school. She glanced at the text, but if she knew
general English, she knew no technical terms, and thus
was of no help to us. We got into the cockpits and began
examining them ourselves; airplanes are all alike all
round the world. The most difficult part was that all
the instruments were marked in miles and feet, while we
were trained in the metric system. It was not common to
us and caused some discomfort. We had to recalculate
everything. It was quite awkward, but there was no other
way. Later, much later, all the instruments were changed
in our planes.

- Were
the instruments changed? Which ones were used instead,
Soviet ones or localized American?

We were
given Soviet instruments. We were told that they were
identical.

- Did
technicians help you to master the airplane? They should
have studied it to the last bolt.

We
studied ourselves, but the ground crews helped a lot.
First, we simply sat in the cockpits and learned the
instrument panel; then for a couple of days we simply
scrambled round the airfield without actually taking
off. Then we started flying for real.

- Who
was the first to take off?

I can’t
recall now. It’s quite possible that it was our crew,
since we were the most senior crew in the regiment.
All the Bostons came armed with four machine guns and
two cannons in the nose. They were in a gunship version.
It had a so called “artillery section” in the nose, but
there was no glassing there. But we, torpedo bombers
couldn’t fly without navigator. Do you understand? Not
every pilot understands.
The pilot is the crew commander. He is a pilot and he
should fly the machine, but he should not make tactical
decisions. When it is time to plan the approach to the
target, and there may be four, eight, or 12 aircraft in
the group, you have to command them. The Germans were
not willing to swim, so they went all guns blazing at
us. If the pilot were commanding the entire group, he
would be unable to fully understand the situation; he
would be unable to detect threats and he would be
brought down. It was quite common. So we talked this
over with the pilots. I told mine:
“Aleksandr, you just make sure that we will return home
safe!”
That he did; he maneuvered, avoided tracers, fell as a
leaf to the altitude of five meters from the water – it
was a true circus. That is why we stayed alive. He was
not busy with tactical decisions, weapons aiming and
use. All this was my responsibility. I was fully free in
flight. He piloted, while I commanded the crew as to
what they should do. External radio communication was
also in my hands. [Pilot A.M. Gagiev was the crew
commander in which Demidov flew as navigator – ed.].

Aleksandr Gagiev,
Panevėžys

- In
the Luftwaffe, the navigator was crew commander.

That is
right, but it could never be this way in our aviation.

- Was
there taunting between pilots and navigators? I spoke to
HSU Yevdokimov, who used to say that: “The pilot is a
taxi driver, who brings navigator to the work site.”

We also
had such jokes. But I explained how it was in our crew,
and that was the only reason why we made it through. The
navigator should be like a mother or nanny to his pilot.
Those who followed standard instructions to the letter,
perished.

- I
believe that a smart pilot simply passed some of his
duties to other crew members.

Vassilii
Minakov was a smart pilot, but there were very few of
such ones. Pass my greetings to him, and tell him that I
still remember him. We used to live in the same
apartment building with him in Leningrad. He is a great
man.

- We
will! The Boston could carry two torpedoes. Why did you
fly with just one?

It was
very heavy, unmaneuverable and had a tendency to spin
out of control [with two]; that’s why we flew with one
torpedo. We used to carry two only when we had to
deliver them from Leningrad to Baltic airbases. Combat
missions were flown only with one torpedo.
There was a chief of staff in our regiment, a colonel
from cavalry, I forgot his surname. He had no idea about
aviation. He made us fly with a torpedo and a bomb. He
ordered us to drop the torpedo from a range of one
kilometer, and then perform a mast-top bombing. That was
a complete delirium. We flew out to the coast line and
dropped the bomb there. The mission was carried out with
only a torpedo.

-
Where did you get torpedoes from, and why did you have
to fly them from Leningrad by air, and not by trucks or
ships? Wasn’t there a problem with aviation fuel?

There was
aviation plant in Leningrad, or maybe a warehouse. The
Gulf of Finland was still closed for naval navigation
due to mine danger, and the roads were long, of bad
quality and unsafe.

- How
would you describe the effectiveness of torpedo strikes?
In percentage.

-
Vassilii Minakov fought in the Il-4, and you in a
Boston. Could you compare them?

Boston
was better because it was lighter than Il-4. The Il-4
was a very heavy aircraft, and it was much less
maneuverable than Boston. When we returned from a
mission with a success, we would make a low altitude
barrel roll with a Boston.

-
Barrel roll with a Boston?!

Yes, we
did it. HSU [Yurii Emmanuilovich] Bunimovich was killed
this way; he caught a dugout roof with a wing tip and
crashed. He was performing a barrel roll at low
altitude. It was proclaimed to be hooliganism, but it
was general practice in the regiment.

- Do
you remember how HSU Vadim Yevgrafov died?

Yes, a
handsome guy from 1st Guards MTAP. A great man. His
death was stupid. I believe that he crashed his airplane
into the guardhouse. The regiment commander had punished
him for something, I can’t remember what it was exactly.
But I do not believe that he could have crashed into the
guardhouse by pure accident after that. That couldn’t
have been a coincidence. It was a suicide. It was not
announced or written anywhere, but it was really that
way. [According to the official version, they had sent
Yevgrafov in a Po-2 liaison aircraft to Leningrad with a
report, and on the eve he learned that he had been
awarded the rank Hero of the Soviet Union. Ostensibly,
when he was flying back, in celebration, he spun his
aircraft . . . He perished accidently. Ed.]
…I had good relations with Borzov. There was a great
navigator in his crew, Dmitrii Kotov. But it was common
for me to fly with him, too, and we became friends. He
was a very stiff man on the ground, and could swear a
lot. In the air he was an ideal pilot, obedient and
responsive, steady. I was his friend; I witnessed his
marriage and knew his wife well. Borzov was an amazing
person. [I. I. Borzov, Commander of 1st Guards MTAP;
subsequently a marshal of aviation. Ed.]

- Was
there a practice to try and “improve” mission results,
or you were realistic in your reports?

No, we
did not exaggerate. It was impossible to fool Borzov. I
remember, how I was once “sentenced” to execution. In
the autumn of 1944, I led a group of eight young crews.
When they spotted a convoy, they simply turned around
and flew home. Only our crew dropped a torpedo, with no
success. When we returned to the base, we were told:
“You haven’t accomplished your mission? You will be
executed!”
Borzov was absent at the time; it was the chief of
division staff. I was being walked to the execution
site, when Borzov landed.
“What’s going on here?! What for?”
He saved me then, and chief of staff was removed after
this event.

- If
you missed, did your commanders severely reprimand you?

Never.
Our regiment commander Borzov was a very clever man.

- I
spoke to the navigator from 51st MTAP,
Yuri Abramov, who
flew 10 missions in Bostons before being shot down. He
claimed that in his Boston G navigators’ cockpit was set
up as a gunner’s compartment, and that he couldn’t see
anything except straight down or up.

Yes,
that’s how it was. But I flew in a shallow compartment
behind the pilot, head-to-head with him. You couldn’t
see anything from the rear compartment, while I could
see everything from here. The Americans sent all the
Bostons to us as gunships, and we were unable to repair
them. The front compartment was added in Leningrad a bit
later, but we had to fly missions somehow before those
modifications were made.

- What
did you do under the canopy? There is no place to even
turn there!

I helped
my pilot, turned my head side to side, increasing his
situational awareness. The pilot only flew the plane, I
did all the rest. I advised when he should release
torpedo or bombs, when to open fire with machine guns.
There was also a map in front of me, if it was needed to
plot a course.

- Did
you fly top-mast bombing missions?

We were
the first to be trained in this maneuver. It was in
Novaya Ladoga. I had flown a lot of mast-top bombing
missions, both at the practice range and in real combat
missions. One pilot was lost during practice; a bomb
blew up immediately after release due to a faulty
detonator.

51st MTAP, at the right -
Orlenko

- You
used live ammo in practice runs?

Yes, of
course; there was no way to get duds. We used to have
concrete bombs before the war. I had flown 30 combat
mast-top bombing missions, which is quite a substantial
number.

- What
kind of targets were used for bombing practice?

We were
trained on Lake Ladoga, using normal shield targets.
This was a vertical target on floats.

- Did
the Germans bother you a lot?

We
suffered mostly from Swedish 20mm Oerlikon automatic
cannons. For us it was very dangerous weapon, while we
were not so seriously bothered by large caliber cannons.
We were hit once by one of them, and it was our gun crew
that brought us down. I told you this story before.
I can say for naval aviation, most losses were caused by
insufficient crew training, and not by enemy actions. We
commonly flew mining missions at night time. We flew in
three-plane formations – a flight. Some pilots had never
flown at night before. When he was caught by a search
light and blinded, the pilot immediately lost
orientation and simply dropped out of the sky. I can
repeat – most losses were caused by lack of training. We
always flew very low, near the water, which is very
difficult. For example, in a bank you could catch a wave
with a wingtip. We had a lot of young pilots, who were
never taught how to fly at these altitudes.

-
There was a special line at the Shepelev lighthouse
which was made to allow pilots to remember how water
would look from an altitude of 20 meters.

I cannot
remember this, but it is possible. We flew at the
altitude of 20 meters above the water. It was very
difficult. When a mast-top or torpedo bomber is making
its run, it had to pass over the attacked ship. Young
pilots often brought pieces of masts from those ships
back to the airfield. It was common to untie wires from
propellers and to get pieces of masts from bomber
fuselages. I did it three times myself from my wingmen’s
airplanes.

51 MTAP

-
Vassilii Minakov tried to make a combat turn to escape
after weapons release and avoid passing over the
attacked convoy.

It is his
point of view. We flew over the target. If you turned
above ship and presented the belly of your aircraft, you
could be torn to pieces by gunners. We “jumped over” the
target and descended as low as possible on the other
side again.

- But
if one flew over the ship, its gunners had a good,
non-maneuvering target as well, and chances to survive
were also low.

Some
experienced bomber pilots made a run, released their
weapon, but instead of jumping over the target they
would skid to the side and fly below the deck level, in
front or behind the ship. It was a trick for the circus,
very complex to perform. To skid an aircraft at such an
altitude required ultimate mastery of the plane.

-
Losses of flying crews during wartime in the 51st MTAP
totaled as 260 men. Can you comment on this?

When we
were assigned to the 51st MTAP and were based at
Klopitsy, along with 3–4 other regiments, including two
regiments from ADD [long-range aviation]. We all flew
mining missions to Tallin and Riga bays. Borzov was at
the command post. We returned to our base, and nobody
could land due to heavy clouds, except us. Borzov called
me and Aleksandr:
“How did you manage to land?!”
We had thought through such a situation before and
trained prior to becoming operational. There was a road
going straight from the Gulf of Finland and we followed
it. Clouds never connect to the water; there always is a
free space. We would enter it, find the road and follow
it to the airfield below tree tops. I got down on the
cabin floor and told the pilot:
“Slightly up, slightly down...”
Then we simply dropped out of the sky to the runway from
an altitude of 10–12 meters. Borzov was very surprised
at that, so he said:
“Would you like to join my regiment?”
We replied:
“Yes, of course!”
In one week’s time, we were transferred to 1st Guards
MTAP.

- What
was wrong with 51st MTAP?

We liked
that regiment, but it was filled with inexperienced
pilots. It turned out that we were the most senior in
it; everybody learned from us, while we needed teachers
ourselves. In 1st Guards MTAP, all pilots were
experienced, with serious experience, and were ready to
pass it to us.

- 1st
Guards MTAP lost 560 crew members during war; 51st lost
260 men. If we are to analyze losses of 1st Guards MTAP,
almost half of them fell in the first months of the war,
when ground bombing missions had to be flown by small
groups without fighter cover. A second rise in losses
occurred in the second half of 1944 and in 1945, when
the regiment flew anti-convoy strikes and bombed naval
bases.

We had
severe losses when we went after convoys. In the
beginning of the war they had singular ships at sea, and
later the Germans began forming convoys, covered by
destroyers, corvettes and other military vessels. They
had very heavy AAA cover.

-
There were heavy losses when you had to bomb naval
bases, too, for example, at Libava... Do you remember
Stepanyan, he perished there? [Twice Hero of the Soviet
Union N.G. Stepanyan – ed.]

We bombed
Libava, too. I remember Stepanyan well, I knew him. He
was a smart, good, likeable man. There was a time
miscalculation in that mission when he was shot down. He
and his group of Sturmoviks arrived at the target before
the fighter cover joined them. So German fighters shot
him down. I had forgotten the details already. I
remember that this loss was due to an incorrect arrival
time of one of the groups. [There is another version of
the event, according to which the first strike group,
participating in the operation, arrived earlier than the
planned time and attacked the target. Stepanyan was
leading the second group, but by the time of the
approach of his Shturmoviks, the Germans had readied
themselves, and their air defense fighters had taken off
to intercept Stepanyan over the sea. Ed.]

- What
did you do if crews did not return from combat mission?

…Here is
another story. We came from Far East in two crews, I
told you about it already. The second crew’s navigator
was Gregory Pryakhin, while the pilot was Viktor… I
forgot his surname. We lived and flew together all the
time. During one of the missions, his aircraft was hit
over the target convoy. We escorted him home. One of the
engines was destroyed, but he still pressed toward home
base. We gave him advice on how to make it better. When
we returned to base, we told him:
“Viktor, land immediately.”
“Fine.”
We began landing, when he announced:
“I’m going to make a second attempt.
“No way! Land now! With gear down, or belly land, just
do it!” We yelled at him over radio.
“I can’t land!”
He made a second attempt and crashed. They burned to
death. Their crew was buried in the nearby forest.

- What
had happened? He ran out of fuel? Stalled?

One
engine was out, so he lost speed and stalled. He was a
good pilot, very good one, but he should have never
risked so much, despite his pride or honor. He lost his
own life and took another three with him. It happened at
the end of the war.

- We
spoke about Bunimovich. What kind of man was he?

He was an
excellent pilot, from the first generation. They were
experienced, and we were fledglings.

- Do
you remember other “old school” pilots? Have you met
Rakov?
[Twice Hero of the Soviet Union V.I. Rakov, at that time
commander of the 12th Guards PBAP (dive bomber
regiment). Ed.]

Rakov was
very good pilot. I flew with his regiment against
Konigsberg. They delivered a punch from high altitude,
while we flew lower and we saw his flight. It was
magnificent! They flew in 9-ship formation, close to
each other.

- I
was told that the Pe-2 was a good aircraft, but not so
good as a dive bomber.

Yes, it
was complex airplane. But I saw over Konigsberg how
Rakov’s regiment dove at their targets. It cannot be
described by words. Magnificent! What power!
There was an “old” pilot Shamanov, who came from civil
aviation. If I’m correct, he flew with navigator Lorin.
[Hero of the Soviet Union I.G. Shamanov, then
instructor pilot in the Headquarters, Air Forces, Red
Banner Baltic Fleet; he flew combat sorties with 1st
Guards MTAP. Ed.]

Gagivev is standing on the left side of the
photocamera. A-20 on a background belonged to
Gagiev/Demidov crew

-
Could you describe how crews were formed? Were they
fixed, or could they have changed, if needed?

They
could be changed, but very rarely. Mostly crews were
fixed. My pilot, Aleksandr Gagiev, didn’t fly single
mission without me, although I had to fly with another
pilots. We were very close to each other, more like a
family. The radio operator in our crew was not so great,
but our gunner was excellent. I wrote an article, not so
long ago, called “Blue 2.” Once, in August 1944, our 12
crews were summoned to strike a convoy. We were young
then. Just before takeoff, Ivan Ivanovich [Borzov] said:
“I will not go. You will lead the group in my airplane.”
“Blue 2” was his aircraft. We successfully accomplished
our mission, even though we lost one plane. I remember
that mission well, and even wrote an article about it. I
once started to write a book…
A man from American embassy (it is located on the
opposite side of the road) came to me and said:
“You flew American Bostons; please, write a book about
it, we will edit it, translate, sell and pay you an
honorarium”.
The honorarium was laughable, minuscule. I said to him
that I was not interested in his honorarium. So I began
writing a book, including an introduction. I gave him
the text for corrections, he edited it and returned it
to me. On the title page, I was not even mentioned among
the authors! So I said straight out that I was not
interested anymore and sent him away. I dropped the
idea, since I had other things to do.
In that mission, when we flew in Borzov’s “Blue 2.” Our
gunner, Sokolov, shot down an enemy Messerschmitt 109.
All 12 crews witnessed and confirmed it. He was issued
an Order of Lenin for that.

-
Which planes did you fly during the war period?

I flew
Bostons, a little bit of the DB-3f with the pointed
nose, and the MBR-2 when I studied at the school.

Weapon crew prapare to load a
torpedo onto Gagiev's plane.

- Here
is a photo, where your crew is standing near an
airplane. It is marked with two ships and a U-boat
symbol. It is your work?

It was
absolutely spontaneous. We were to attack a U-boat base
in the Klaipeda–Memel area. There was one large merchant
vessel, our main target. We were to attack it from a
different direction, and when we were going our way, a
U-boat emerged from the water right in front of us. We
torpedoed it. It was pure luck that I pressed the
trigger.

-
Navigator Abramov said . . .

There
were a lot of good young men. There was a young
navigator Rashevskii. Ram Zaifman… He searched for me in
Moscow after the war, but somehow we did not meet. There
was another young navigator in Mikhail Tokarev’s crew. I
remember, we had to attack ships in Memel. Naval AA was
assisted by heavy AA from the shore. Shells as tall as
men flew at us. But they were not shooting at us, but at
the water. A column of water rose after the explosion.
Their crew hit such column and vanished. They flew 30–40
meters to the side from us; it all happened before my
eyes... It was like hitting a concrete wall.

-
Minakov and Abramov told me that they didn’t use torpedo
sights during attacks, while Razgonin said that his
navigator used one, while he followed navigator’s
orders. According to recent research, Razgonin was
credited with the highest real tonnage sunk. Did you use
a torpedo sight?

Sometimes, but mostly not. Most important was to get
within 900–800 meters from the ship and aim at the
center of the ship. We did it by plain eye, and there
was no way for the ship to evade.

- But
there was no sense in releasing the torpedo at the range
less than 600 meters, or it would not be armed.

Yes, but
if you will drop it from 1000–600 meters away, it will
surely hit the target.
We were friends with Razgonin. You know his story, how
he was shot down, how he was captured and then escaped…
There is no sense in repeating all this. He was my
friend, so I called him to live at my apartment. We
lived well together. Then he was summoned for a check,
and sent to jail. Then he was released. But we thought
that he had perished. Sometime later I found out that
Aleksandr Razgonin had returned alive, but was living in
a very difficult conditions and working at a garage. I
went to Ivan Ivanovich Borzov and told him all this.
Borzov, in turn, went to the Fleet Commander. We went
there together, but I had to wait in the reception area,
while Ivan Ivanovich spoke to commander. As a result,
Razgonin was restored to his former rank and his former
position, so he began receiving his military salary.

- He
was not stripped of his HSU title?

No. He
was simply forgotten about. They threw him from the
military ranks. His active service time was low and
pension was low too. He was a very gentle, standoffish,
and modest man. He did not know how to push a queue
aside. A nice man.

- What
about alcohol during the war?

I had a
line in my evaluation reports – drinks a lot, but with
disgust [laughs]. I was never too keen to drink, but was
not a stranger in a company. I could hold on pretty
long, and never was completely drunk.

- Did
you fly under the influence of alcohol?

No,
never. We never flew drunk. But in 1944–45, there was a
decanter with spirit in our officers’ mess, so after we
returned from a mission we sometimes would drink to
relieve the stress. Unfortunately, a lot of us couldn't
stop when war ended.

- Old
pilots used to say, that those pilots who flew
recklessly during war often were killed in air accidents
in peace time. Could you confirm?

Yes, it
was a common problem.

- Were
there problems regarding nationality?

How could
there be?! Aleksandr Gagiev was an Ossetian and, despite
a difference in characters, we were very friendly. He
liked women a lot, chain-smoked, drank a lot. I, on the
other hand, was monogamous, never smoked and drank
alcohol only when the situation required.

-
Which colors were used to paint aircraft tactical
numbers in your regiment?

Yellow.
My bort number was yellow “6”. Then my number was yellow
“30”, since “6” had been shot down by our own AAA. I
flew “30” till the end of war.

-
Wasn't there a possibility of confusing your aircraft
with German planes that carried yellow friendly
recognition elements (FRE) because of this color use?

No, it
was not so much of a problem.

- Were
there FRE on your planes? A “cap” at the fin, or perhaps
the rudder was painted in a special color? Some nose
art?

No,
nothing like that; only the tactical number.
There were things like that in civil aviation. After the
war I worked there. I resigned and had to move from
Leningrad to Moscow, because my wife was sick. 15 times
she had pneumonia in Leningrad. The doctors told me,
that if I did not take her to other region, she would
die in a year. I went to the personnel department, wrote
a report and resigned. I began working in the Moscow
Civil Aviation Academy.

- Were
aircraft numbers issued according to some rules?

No, they
were different. We just used the ones that we received.
Who wrote them, I do not know. We were surprised by them
ourselves.

- What
was the attitude toward decorated comrades and those who
received the Hero title?

Normal,
ordinary. There was no jealousy or any urge to get one.
If we sank a merchant vessel, we would usually get an
Order of Combat Red Banner.

- I
spoke to a HSU shturmovik pilot:
“Were you happy to become a Hero?”
He replied:
“You don't understand what you are talking about. When I
received it, I had no idea how to get rid of it. From
then on I got all the most difficult and dangerous
missions, because they believed that I could do
anything.”

Yes, very
close…

- Do
you remember your first combat mission?

Like it
was yesterday. Our 51st MTAP was tasked with the
destruction of an enemy assault force in the area of
Luga Bay. It was a real story.
When we breached the blockade and cut a railroad by
means of which the Germans in Leningrad area supplied
themselves, they had to bring in supplies via sea, and
decided to build a naval base in Ust-Luga. For that they
tried to effect an amphibious landing there. It was
where I hit my first target by skip bombing, in a first
mission.
We took off from Klopitsy in a four-ship formation and
attacked the convoy from the shore line. When commanders
assigned the mission, we were ordered to attack from the
open sea. We disobeyed, but the Germans did not expect
us from that side [landward]. If we would have followed
the prescribed directive, we would all have perished.

- In
which Fleets did you serve?

Only in
the Baltic. But I served on temporary duty in all
others, except the Pacific Fleet.

- Did
you meet Preobrazhenskii? [HSU Ye.N. Preobrazhenskii,
well known commander at several levels in Baltic,
Northern, Pacific Fleets; commander of all Soviet naval
air forces from 1950–62. Ed.]

Yes, I
did, but not in a regiment commander role, rather when
he was the Baltic Fleet Air Forces commander. Smart and
intelligent man.

- Did
you fly with him?

No, I did
not. I had to fly with Borzov a lot.

- What
was your attitude toward the Allies and the Second
Front?

We were
not concerned about them at all. At first we waited for
their help, and swore that they wouldn't help us. But
later we were indifferent.

- How
about when they finally did open the Second Front?

We spat
on them then, too. Absolutely indifferently.

- When
did the war end for you? When did you stop flying combat
missions?

After 9
May, 1945, we kept flying combat missions for two month,
looking for enemy ships in the sea, sinking them. We
ended the war completely in Latvia in 1949.

Ilyushin Il-4. North Fleet
museum

- Were
these missions accounted for as combat ones? The war was
over. How seriously did you look after your score and
awards? Were there any monetary prizes for successful
crews?

There
were clerks who did all the counting and writing. We
were not bothered at all. There were some payments, but
not a lot. For each merchant we got 3000–6000 rubles.
Some of our pilots used money for wallpaper. A loaf of
bread cost more then.

-
Nowadays, historians like to discuss how much this or
that person got without understanding how much money
really was worth back then. Did you send money to your
relatives or to the “defense fund”?

Money was
collected for different funds. We mostly didn't send
money to our relatives, because they were cut off from
us.
The most dangerous day in my life was when I went on
vacation after the war. My relatives lived 18 kilometers
from Kharkov, where they had built a house, instead of
apartments in Kharkov. There was famine there, while we
had some food. I gathered two suitcases of food and went
to Kharkov. There were regional trains before war, but
they were not working immediately after the war ended.
There were no cars or trucks either. So, I thought, how
am I going to get there? So I went to the railway
station with these two suitcases, got between two
freight cars and traveled standing on the buffer between
the cars. While train was going slowly, everything was
fine. But then it gained speed! I was terrified, having
to balance between cars with suitcases in both hands… I
jumped off the train while it was still moving; luckily,
I was unharmed. That was the most terrifying and
dangerous moment in my whole life!

-
Germans received metals, iron ore and ball bearings from
neutral Sweden, and this materiel was brought in by
Swedish ships. Was there any difference for you between
German or Swedish ships?

No, there
was none. We attacked and sunk Swedish ships, too. We
drowned them near the Swedish coastline.

- So
you operated in Swedish territorial waters?

Yes, we
flew there, identified and sunk their ships there. They
did not present any objections [laughs]. Swedish
fighters took off and flew near, but did not engage us.
By the way, I remember there was a large German airfield
in Pyarnu, which we later captured. The Germans had
Messerschmitt-110s there. However strange it may seem,
we were quite friendly to them. When we flew over them,
we rocked our wings; they would take off, fly round us
and swing to us. But that was an exception, of course.
Our forces were pretty similar, both had twin-engine
airplanes, and no one wanted to die at the war’s end. So
we flew straight to the west through Pyarnu, while
routes to the north or south were much more dangerous.

Yellow 30 - the
Gagiev-Demidov aircraft

-
Sober calculations on both sides saved many lives. But a
lot were still lost… I can see that in some photos you
and Gagiev look alike – with moustaches.

There is
a real story behind them. At the war’s end, we flew to
Leningrad for torpedoes. The trains were not going yet,
nor were other means of transportation available. We had
to bring one or two torpedoes for ourselves. So we had
to fly to Leningrad once again.
Just one month before that, my pilot Aleksandr Gagiev
got married. He had an excellent wife, who lived with
her father, mother and sister in Leningrad. When we came
in, we stayed there for a night. In the morning we were
awakened by completely unknown woman. I asked:
“What happened?!”
“The war is over! Get up!”
We got up. We had an agreement – when war ended, we
would shave our moustaches off.
He had had a moustache all his life, while I never had
one. I told him once, recklessly:
“Your moustache is not growing.”
He was offended:
“Your moustache is not growing, either.”
“I will get it twice as big as yours in a month.”
“They will not.”
“I’ll make you a bet. If I grow mine out, at the end of
war we both will shave them off. You and I.”
I took up the challenge. We made an agreement that we
would shave them off when the war ended.

- When
did you have this argument?

At the
beginning of 1945. In the end I grew such a moustache,
that it did not allow me to eat properly.
So, we went to the barber shop at the Moscow railway
station to shave. When we were finished, we walked out
to the station plaza. We were wearing our Gold Stars,
but no other awards. People lifted us in the air and
carried us through all Nevskii prospect. I will never
forget it!

- When
did this happen?

On 8 May,
when the end of the war was announced.

- When
you were transferred to 1st Guards MTAP from 51st, did
you receive a Guards title straight away?

No, a bit
later. Even though Borzov respected us after that flight
that I described earlier. Then we became Borzov’s
favorites. He sent us, captains and lieutenants, to lead
entire squadrons instead of him. He trusted us.
Aleksandr Gagiev was an excellent pilot; I can compare
him with Gromov [HSU M.M. Gromov, who established a
world-record flight in September 1934] or Chkalov [HSU
V.P. Chkalov, who participated in record flights in
1936–37, including a non-stop monoplane flight over the
North Pole from Moscow to Vancouver Barracks,
Washington]. In the air he listened to me and paid
attention. Borzov liked him and tried to place him in
different command positions, but Gagiev did not become a
high ranking commander. He was not successful in
science, either. He graduated from the Academy after the
war, but just barely.

-
Veterans used to say that Borzov rose after the war due
to Vassilii Stalin’s protection.

I knew
Vassilii Stalin too. We were based at the same airfield
in Shaulay. Our regiment and his division were based
there. I went to his commanding post several times and
spoke to him. My opinion – smart, good pilot, but
spoiled by his father’s ass-lickers.

-
There are two opinions about Vassilii Stalin: a sloppy
or, on the contrary, a very good commander.

He was an
excellent commander! I had an opportunity to see him act
in most difficult situations. There was a case, when a
surrounded German tank regiment attacked our airfield at
Shaulay. Vassilii Stalin organized the defense; on his
order, airplanes were directed toward the enemy, and
thus we managed to repel the attack. All thanks to
Vassilii. Just imagine – we repelled a tank attack only
due to his steadfastness and organizational abilities.
Vassilii Stalin was Borzov’s friend; they spent a lot of
time together. Once Vassilii asked Ivan Ivanovich to
exchange one of his fighters for one of our Bostons. It
was supposed to be done officially. Stalin had an old,
slow Douglas [C-47]. Because he had to visit Moscow very
often, he wished to get our plane, which was twice as
fast. But someone reported the exchange to Stalin, his
father, and they both were reprimanded.

- You
mostly were escorted by 21st IAP?

The 21st
IAP under the command of Pavlov and 14th Guards IAP
under the command of Mironenko.

-
Vladimir Tikhomirov from 12th IAP told us that at the
end of war Army fighters were ordered to cover Navy
shturmoviks and bombers.

I
remember that, but they were worthless. Naval pilots
were used to fly over the water, while VVS pilots were
not. Once they reached shore line, they began whining
over the radio:
“Let us go. Release us! We cannot fly here.
It was a stupid idea to ask them to escort us. They
could get lost at low altitude.

- Was
there a test Boston in your regiment equipped with
radar?

It was
Borzov’s airplane, and our crew tested it. We clearly
understood that this radar was worthless, but still
wrote a positive report. There was a need to kick our
technology a little bit forward, which is why we wrote a
positive report.

- When
did this happen?

In 1944.

-
These radars were tested in all fleets, but pilots
reported that they were more of a problem.

Yes,
that's true. I wrote a positive report, even though I
should have written a negative one. It was not ready
yet. But if we would have made a negative report, the
project might have been halted completely. So I
carefully described all the problems that we
encountered, but made a conclusion that work should
continue.

- Did
you participate in the Konigsberg liberation?

Yes, the
fighting there was heavy. For the first time we used
high-altitude torpedoes there. We dropped three
torpedoes from 5,000 meters into the bay of Danzig.
Shturmoviks reported that one of our torpedoes hit a
merchant, even though it shouldn't have. These torpedoes
ran in circles and were used to block convoy movements,
allowing mast-top bombers and torpedo-bombers to strike
more effectively. Our task was not to sink, but to block
a convoy from dispersing. But in the end, as I
mentioned, shturmoviks reported that one ship was sunk
by a high-altitude torpedo.

- What
kind of opposition did you met over Konigsberg? Were
there any fighters?

There was
almost no opposition to us in the air over there.

- When
you were based at the airfields in Germany, did you see
German equipment there?

No, when
we landed at new airfields, everything had been cleared.
Here is our “30” at the airfield, and here is our Masha,
from photo lab. When we were going to fly, she gave us a
photo camera, and we made photos from the air. We had to
fly reconnaissance missions, make photos of each ship
that we encountered and make photos of the strike. It
was done with ordinary hand cameras.

- Did
you have built-in cameras?

Usually,
we took ordinary cameras, although I recall that we
carried special camera when we made a strike against
Libava airfield.

- How
durable was the Boston?

It was
very durable. Once we were given a mission to attack
German shipping in Riga Bay. We took off... We attacked
an “ordinary merchant,” but it was a decoy ship, with a
lot of Oerlikons. We took some heavy hits; our airplane
was torn to pieces, full of holes like a sieve, and
without a tail. We barely made it home.

- What
do you mean “without tail”? How did you fly it, then?

The fin
was torn away completely, while there were remains of
the stabilizer and elevators. It was hard to fly it, but
we made it. Aleksandr was a great pilot, he brought us
home.

- Were
you afraid in war?

No,
never. We thought about it as a sport. Even combat
missions were sport to us. I was much more afraid on
that train, fearing that I will die stupidly.

-
After the war, you studied at Monino Academy and
remained there as an instructor?

Yes, I
studied there and became a teacher. I taught for six
years before we moved to Leningrad, when the Aviation
Department was opened in Kuznetsov Academy.
There used to be a Navy Aviation section in the
Navigators Department at Monino Academy, organized in
1947. We were the first there. After us, there were
several others. Later, when they recruited for the Naval
Academy in Leningrad, they stopped selecting naval
navigators [for duty] at Monino.

- Were
you in a “Golden Horde”?

Almost. I
was at the navigators’ course, while “Horde” was at the
command course, and consisted almost completely of HSUs
or twice HSUs. There were fewer HSUs among us
navigators.

Yuri Gagarin among the Monino
Air Force Academy officers

- I
can see that you have original photos with Gagarin. Did
you meet him in person?

Yes, I
did. It happened at the VVS Academy in Monino. We were
preparing them for space flight. Cosmonauts were brought
to us and we taught them navigation, not too deep. It
was very important for them, so they listened to us with
great attention. They were nice guys, and Gagarin was a
very modest, good lad.
I took several photos of them in Monino. My wife had
taken his picture, but it was taken away. Great picture!
This post card was made on its basis. I kept it, and
later Gagarin signed an autograph for me on it.

- What
do you think about his death?

They
shouldn’t have flown. There was some human error; the
airplane seemed to be fine… But the exact reason was not
found.

- When
were you invited to the navigation department in
Leningrad?

In 1963.
In the autumn of 1964, I became the faculty chief. There
was no aviation department in the academy before that.
When it was created, I was invited. The temporary chief
of the department was Ivan Gavrilov, but after my
arrival, I was given this post.

- Why
you?

It’s hard
to say, perhaps because I had more experience in
navigation. Gavrilov was a navigator with a very narrow
field of expertise. Like Gregory Avanesov, he was an
anti-submarine warfare (ASW) unit navigator, and flew
with an MBR-2. They had the very specific task of
finding enemy U-boats with special equipment and attack
them with special weapons.

Rostislav Demidov in
civil aviation

- What
were the relationships between the tactics and
navigation faculties?

Excellent. The chief of the pilots department was
Balabasyov. We studied at flight school together. But I
had very little contact with pilots, so I remember them
less than the navigators. When we conducted customs and
traditions work with them, we had to nursemaid the wives
when they got to arguing among themselves.
I remember the chief of the academy, Fleet Admiral Orel.
For some reason he liked me. If he had any questions
regarding aviation, he would summon me. For example:
“My mother-in-law is flying out of Orenburg today. When
I should meet her? Can you calculate?”
“Any additional data?”
“No.”
So I went to my office, called the airport and asked the
information desk when the flight from Orenburg would
land. I returned with a report. He announced to all
present:
“Look – Demidov knows everything!”
I also witnessed how he dismissed one of the sailors,
threw his hat down and stomped on it; another time he
threw the telephone and also stomped on it; and another
time threw an admiral out [of his office]. He was an
original, but for some reason he liked me.

Zhitinskii was great, smart man! He was purged, spent
some time in jail. Zhitinskii was no worse than Borzov,
but softer. I knew him and his family well. He did a lot
for me. He was a respectable, kind, and remarkable man.

- Were
you sorry to leave Leningrad?

I always
loved this city, and I still do. Almost all my life was
connected to it. If not for my wife’s health, I wouldn’t
have left it. But we always called it Peter.

- Two
final questions. Which missions did you most prefer, and
which did you most dislike?

We hated
to fly after some stuff for political officers, and we
just loved to fly to Leningrad to pick up torpedoes.

- What
surprised you the most during war time?

It’s hard
to say. Let me think... I’d say, that Borzov decided to
transfer us to his regiment, it was very important for
us! 51st regiment was “condemned,” and we clearly
understood it, there was no one to teach us there. In
1st Guards MTAP were a lot of men who could teach us.
I’d say, this had the most positive effect on us.