Rapid Reaction: Denver Nuggets 108 – Toronto Raptors 109

Brewer did what he normally does as far as energy goes despite being moved into a starting role due to the injuries to Andre Iguodala and Danilo Gallinari, which helped the Nuggets as they tried to recover from an early double digit deficit. What didn’t help though was the abysmal shooting night though. On a night where the Nuggets were missing around 30 points due to injury someone needed to step up and Brewer was not the answer. His good defense helps his grade a bit but it is hard to overcome those shooting lines.

Faried did his normal Faried things for the Nuggets, score his points in ultra efficient ways and provide energy for the team throughout the night but a large part of the problems the Nuggets had on the defensive glass has to fall on the team’s best rebounder. When a team gives up 15 offensive rebounds it is hard enough to win, let alone when they give up two on one of the final possessions of a close game when they are down four key rotation players. What hurts the most is the rebound that eventually led to Rudy Gay’s game winner hit Faried in the hands, but he was unable to corral the ball.

Koufos missed some easy shots and made some tough ones, rebounded the ball pretty well but still allowed to many offensive rebounds, and had a nice block when the Nuggets were making a run to get back in the game, but also blew some rotations. Basically he played about as average as one can in his limited minutes.

Lawson was absolutely incredible for the Nuggets tonight, and was the reason the game ended up as close as it did. Lawson created more offense for his teammates than the nine assists indicate and got himself to the basket at will. He also had two great steals that led to easy Nuggets baskets in a game his team desperately needed easy points. While losses are never easy to take Nuggets fans should be excited about the rest of the season if Lawson can use tonight as a springboard for more dominant performances.

The offense looked good for Fournier for the most part, but a couple of bad decisions on not shooting the ball and some rough defense hurt his grade. With such a pure stroke Fournier needs to be willing to shoot the ball even if the window he gets is not a big one, and a couple times tonight he was not and instead drove into traffic and got into trouble. On the defensive side of things Fournier had a nice moment where he jumped a Raptors dribble hand-off but for the most part he struggled to stay in front of Demar DeRozan. The offensive flashes that should get people excited were there, but so were the defensive problems that should cause worry.

There are going to be plenty of people who disagree with me on Randolph’s grade due to how his final boxscore reads and his pretty good play in the fourth quarter, but a couple of things stood out to me that don’t allow me to go higher than a B minus. Early in the game Randolph had a sequence that went like this: Dunk, steal, try to dribble to much after the steal and get the ball stolen from him, hit nothing but backboard from four feet away, charge. It was just ugly. Add in the fact that he missed a dunk/layup that was wide open, completely whiffed on a pretty good pass from Andre Miller when he was wide open in front of the rim with no one around him, and missed another layup on the break and he cost the Nuggets plenty of easy points in transition. Then the end of the game comes, and Randolph is on the floor while the Nuggets struggle rebounding and he fails to set a good screen on the final inbounds play then gets knocked backwards on the hand-off once the ball gets in. In the end it was a typical Anthony Randolph night; on one hand flashes of good and on the other plays that make you realize why he doesn’t get more minutes.

Hamilton was aggressive but as a player who is known as a shooter he needs to shoot better than 3-10 from the floor in his opportunities. On the bright side he made a great block in transition after turning the ball over and played hard the entire time he was on the court. Like Randolph and Fournier the flashes were there, but the overall game wasn’t good enough.

Like Randolph, Miller’s line looks much better than what he gave the Nuggets on the floor during the game, mostly on the defensive end. Multiple times Miller was part of a miscommunication that led to open shots for the Raptors, and other times he walked when he was supposed to be stepping in to help on drives. The most telling moment was on Hamilton’s stellar block. The Raptors had a 3 on 1 break against Miller and looked to have an easy bucket after Miller stepped towards the player who received the first pass and they swung the ball back to I believe Kyle Lowry running the break. Miller turned back around and just stood there as Lowry took another two steps and went airborne for his layup. Luckily for Miller Hamilton came flying out of no where to block the layup but it is the kind of effort that “veteran leaders” shouldn’t be demonstrating.

George Karl

I just flat out didn’t get a lot of George Karl’s decision making tonight, and in the end a few of the decisions ended up costing the Nuggets the game. First of all, if a coach wants to preach accountability and unselfishness, how can he continue to clearly play favorites? JaVale McGee got in the game, scored a basket and committed a foul, and was taken out all in one minute in the first quarter. Meanwhile Andre Miller, who in pure selfishness cost the Nuggets the game on Sunday against the Celtics, plays 31 minutes. Then as the Nuggets are getting killed on the class late in the game Karl continued to play Anthony Randolph instead of going to either Koufos or Mozgov. If his problem was the Raptors playing small then why have Randolph on the floor anyway forcing him or Faried to have to play Alan Anderson? Isn’t that a perfect spot for Jordan Hamilton? Then on the final possession of the game Karl used Randolph, clearly the most frail member of his team, to try and set a screen for Cory Brewer and then take the inbound pass from Lawson and execute a hand-off to get Ty going towards the basket. Except Randolph was knocked back, fumbled the ball and Lawson was unable to get a good shoot. Isn’t that a perfect situation for a big body like Koufos or Mozgov? It was just a bad night for Karl even despite being short handed.

Three Things We Saw

Flashes: While I don’t believe in moral victories what I do believe in is being able to see some good in bad situations. The Nuggets saw some nice flashes from some young players that have seen limited minutes this season in Fournier, Hamilton and even Randolph. While all three players made mistakes, there were plays that gave glimpses into what the Nuggets see in the three players.

The Flash: Lawson was incredible tonight and after seeing it the Nuggets have to hope he can do it more consistently. If he can create shots and alleys to drive like he did tonight for Gallo and Iggy and Chandler instead of Brewer, Fournier and Hamilton, the Nuggets may have found a solution for the creator at the end of games problem.

Flashes in the Pan: That is all the Nuggets will be if they continue to not be able to win on the road. I know the team was missing four key players but they had a chance to steal a game against a probable lottery team and didn’t execute simple things like layups and defensive rotations right. As has been the problem all year, this is a different team on the road, and that has to change or the Nuggets will stay as just a team no one wants to play in the first round, instead of a true contender.

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No Center, an Andre Miller, bad coaching & No clutchness (if Thats a word) At the end AGAIN. Sick of this B.S.

al68

The best thing about this team is the coach. Without GK this team would win 10 games less, everyone knows except some denver fans. Today has been done what he could and he has been shown that rotation does is the best posible.
In this life everything can be improved but GK is the best that we have.

http://twitter.com/xantoniooo808x D3Ntilthe3ND

Boy, we should sign some 7 footers…

Could really use some size!

googergieger

Bleh. Slip further back from The Clips. Hope we don’t slip further back from Memphis who are playing the Kings. Didn’t have three of our best defenders. McGee hurt apparently as well? And we had more than double the points in the paint again and still got less free throw attempts than the other team. Be nice if Karl spoke up about it and got a fine already. It just makes no logical sense. Double the paint points than almost every team we play and still less free throws?

Quite a play that was drawn up there in the end…

Hope we win tomorrow. These two losses really make me miss Iguodala’s defense.

theo

Nice take on the officiating. Thought exactly the same thing. We were by far the more aggressive team attacking the rim all night. Didn’t realize Landry Fields was a superstar–refs bailed him out all night on ticky tacks. Sadly, no stars often means no calls even if you’re clearly the more aggressive team. Pretty blatant tonight. In a one point loss, clearly made a difference tonight.

Andershow8

Please guys dont be unfair today. We deserved to win, because we played without 4 key players and Karl was playing 3rd unit players, who were all rusty.

Raptors had an amazing night, with Fields in the 3Q, Anderson in the 4Q and they were shooting 70% from the 3pt line in the 4Q. Some lucky bounces at the end and they won.

This is basketball. Two tough losses on the road yes, but we had Boston and Toronto. We are gonna recover this two losses I`m sure.

And Ty Lawson today, just waw. He was unplayable. For the Raptors, cant wait for next year, we are gonna KILL them in Pepsi. If had just Gallo or Iggy today..

al68

Tienes toda la razon

Mark

So for you it’s excusable that Karl gets to the end of a game we should have won and just says “Close enough, let’s go home”??? You’re not tired of the fact that we never never EVER EVER have a decent play drawn up when we’re down by one with 4 seconds left?

Daniel Y

Again, no center and getting outrebounded by one of the worse rebounding teams in the NBA. A retarded play where Ty was inbounding cost him precious time and he wasnt able to get to the hole. George Karl is the dumbest sack of ish I have ever seen. Why is he still here?

Poor FT shooting, horrible perimeter D (Miller, Gk’s life partner) and stupid lineups and getting outcoached out of timeouts and the inability to draw up a fucking play. All on the coach. I don’t care what one of you GK supporters say, you can’t argue he fails the team.

A young team that needs a coach, only has a egotistical, arrogant, stubborn, “philosopher” who will never lead this group of guys to their true potential. It is a shame, and I am so tired of the same shit every year. Come on Masai, grow a pair and get rid of him.

GB

WORD. Even if we played small-ball all the way to the #1 seed, we will lose in the playoffs because of GK’s coaching, it happens, literally, every single year.

KW

I think they’re just close male friends who would do anything for one another, not life partners

Charliemyboy

Your wish. Karl is going to Seattle with his family and we get the Sacramento coach. You should be very happy.

Beef

Pleased with the way we played tonight, displeased with the loss. After some major struggle in the first half finding rhythm we started to look strong, but defense from the 3 ended up killing us. Randolph and Hamilton looked pretty good out there, really enjoyed Hamilton’s block after botching the drive and Randolph’s steals. Hope to see more of them.

Aaron

Nugs breaking the record for quality losses. . . . . .

So, does anyone else think JaVale wasn’t injured??? He was hot and bothered coming off the floor in the 2nd quarter, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some funk there. What can you say? without 3 of your top guys, shot to win at the end. . .we’ll take it.

I’m not sure we can win tomorrow without those guys. . should be just about the right time for the all-star break for our crew. We need it. . and we still have an easier sked than the Grizzlies down the stretch.

theo

Wasn’t upset after the Boston loss but a bit ticked tonight.

Obviously, we were shorthanded but that looked like a preseason game in the middle of the season. I mean, guys that haven’t played enough to break a sweat were putting up 15 to 20 minutes. Kept expecting the assistant coaches to suit up and play 5 minutes each. We were disjointed and out of sinc all night. Felt we went a little too deep into the bench.

Iggy, Ill Will and Gallo were deeply missed on D. Deceptive since we created some havoc by gambling, but fundamentally were were lousy. Faried looked befuddled and lost on D for the second straight game. Rotations glacial. We lost the game from three and the line. Very tall order to win on the road without your two best defenders and your best scorer.

Positive? Ty is playing like a man possessed. I’ve been a doubter about his ability and personality to become an elite point guard, but he’s winning me over. Wow. Fun to watch the smallest guy on the court dominate.

What’s up with McGee playing only 5 minutes? Didn’t look like an injury issue. I mean, we were already short three main rotation guys and then Karl adds a fourth by sitting McGee. He didn’t look good defensively when he was out there and Randolph played big, but again, we were very disjointed so can’t imagine Karl would purposely make us even more disjointed. Perplexing. Any explanations?

Markos

Why did KK did not play in the entire 4th quarter???whats the matter with GK?? KK grabbed 10 rebounds ( 5 offensive ) and scored 8 points and 2 stelas and was again on the floor for only 20 minutes! Did not play at all in the 4th quarter! Thats why we where outrebounded in the last 2 minutes and lost the game!

dynamo.joe

2nd’d

chris

Fournier looked strong. He makes smart decisions and does all the little things right. I can see him playing well with George’s system when the Andre Miller Ghost stops haunting this team.

Is it just me or is Andre Miller becoming more of a liability on defense as the year goes on? For him to be the least athletic player on the court, there is no reason he bites on so many pump fakes. Even when he’s up at his peak it’s not like he’d come close to blocking anyone…

mcz84

Didnt really like Ty inbounding the ball on that last possesion,cmon Karl get some good inbounds plays going.Also dont know why McGee only played 5 minutes, he looked pissed when he was taken out after only 1 minute of action hope he speaks out on Karls coaching.Why do we even have 3 seven footers if Karls not gonna use then were getting outrebounded by one of the worst rebounding teams and Karl stays small WTF karl!!AMIller doesn even care about defense he was leaving his guy wide open for threes but karl still gives him 30 plus minutes.Im fucken tired of Karls head games and wacky lineups.Get Miller and Karl outta here ASAP!!!!

Jeff

You hope McGee speaks out on Karl’s coaching? That would be bad for the team, McGee, Karl, and the entire organization. That’s the kind of crap that tears teams apart.

googergieger

Miller saying this team can’t win, should get more minutes, and being allowed to do literally anything he wants doesn’t help matters either.

Jeff

I agree and I think Miller should be traded.

theo

A lot of fans agree Richard Pryor (aka YMCA Dre) gets too many minutes. I don’t agree he does whatever he wants–he made some stupid decisions at the end in the Boston game. As far as what he said about no team winning a title without stars, he’s exactly right. I appreciate his honesty. There’s exactly no evidence whatsoever that a team can win without stars. I don’t know of a single coach outside of Karl, or any current player or ex player or anybody associated with the NBA who believes titles can be won without stars. Those that think so are operating on hope and emotion and not facts and history. I think it’s fine for fans to go on hope and emotion, but they should admit that’s what they’re doing. So I’ve been sort of puzzled at the strong reaction his statement got among Nugs fans. Is the idea that even if he’s right, he shouldn’t have said it publicly?

googergieger

Leavs his man wide open on defense. Forces a lot of switches without calling them out. Lot of bad fouls. Turn over prone. Over dribbles. Four of those things are things Karl says he straight up hates. Yet…

“People say you can’t win anything without a superstar. I think we can make it out of the first round. I think we got guys that are going to become superstars. Maybe from the first to second round that awakening will happen. Still we are going to fight for as many wins as we can get and bring an all out brawl to whoever we meet come play off time.”

Realistic yet commendable. Something along those lines would do. Then again not everyone thinks before they speak. Especially when George Karl thinks you can say or do no wrong.

Jeff

Wait, is that a made up quote?

googergieger

Yup. I’m just saying hypothetically someone can say something like that and get what Miller said across without sounding the dick.

theo

Why would he say, “People say you can’t win….” It’s not an issue of opinion–it’s a fact. Again, not a shred of evidence to support the alternate opinion. If he said that I and a lot of other people would consider him silly at best and disingenuous at worst.

Liked the rest of your recreation, though. If he’d started by saying we’ve got some young guys we think will develop into stars…would have been more savvy but if we had a nickle for every time athletes misspoke we’d all be rich. Still think the reaction was a little over the top.

Yeah, I think the only hope with this current roster is that somehow Ty and Gallo or maybe somebody else jumps into superstar category. Again, I think we’re in hope and emotion realm there; the odds are long against that this year. Masai knows that. I don’t think he’ll make a move this month but he’s all but said he’s not close to finishing constructing this team, which is comforting to a fan like me that likes to base my takes on facts and the odds. Fans here should be pulling strongly for trades and additional pieces if they’re serious about winning a title. I think management is thinking along a 2 to 3 year path, certainly not this year.

Re Dre’s shortcomings that you mention–I could mention others–I don’t think that falls into the category of ‘doing whatever he wants.’ He’s just a limited player at this point in his career–I mean, he’s a poor perimeter defender not because he’s selfish and doesn’t care, but because he just can’t get there against much quicker opponents. He’s never had much of a perimeter game, etc. So if he plays, those issues are just part of the package you get. Karl obviously thinks the good he brings outweighs the weaknesses, but that’s not on Dre. He’s playing the game he’s always played–I’ve been watching him for decades–this is what you get, though he’s obviously slowed down some and seems more mistake prone this year.

googergieger

And there is plenty of proof of more superstars losing than winning. It is analytical proof at best. All winning teams had someone with facial hair. All winning teams had someone that was allergic to something. There are other variables.

Masai needs to get team guys first and foremost I think. Guys happy with coming off the bench. Jared Dudley, Reggie Evans, CJ Watson, etc. Unless he can get us Lebron James or someone. I hate the guy but he’d make us win.

Still think we are under achieving all said and done. Way we’ve won and lost and all.

What does Andre Miller leaving spot up shooters wide open have to do with him not being quick enough to stay with the guy standing still?

Much more, why come McGee can’t get away with the Miller mistakes? Especially when actual effort is there?

Jeff

Basketball is about building the best team. It’s not some video game where you assemble all the “stars” with the best stats, otherwise the Lakers would be the best team in the league. The pistons didn’t have any ”superstars” when they won the championship. What is the exact definition of a star? 20 points a game? Gallo’s close to that.

http://espn herpderpnuggets

Nuggets just cant seem to get away from the Gay. I think it was a sort of statement game the nuggets had tonight, you know, not having 4 of their better players and losing on a last second shot. That is pretty impressive. I just really wished the nuggets would have won because of the standings and whatnot but I bet the nuggs could get a win tomorrow if they have some more players back.

GK4Prez

Hire an assistant coach to draw up inbound plays already. A decades worth of the GK end of game drawn up plays has been enough to last a lifetime.

Ackdog

I’m not sure what you guys want. 40% of your rotation players were missing tonight and still got a good shot at the end of the game. I still reckon this team needs a jump shooter like Reddck though. Tough loss for sure and we complain because we know this team can start doing great things.

ENK

cant be too mad about tonight. what, with a chunk of our team out? whats mcgeezys deal though? is he hurt? i didnt quite get what ws goin on there. that last shot by rudy was just a tough shot. im happy we were in it w the hand we were dealt. also, ty played lawsome tn…

CJP32

Sucks that we were missing 3 key players but I thought we did really well considering. CBrew should not of started, he’s better off the bench. JHam, Evan and AR played well. Ty was awesome. Yeah it’s a loss but we gotta look forward to BKN.

googergieger

Now one full game behind Memphis again. Back to fighting for that fourth seed, and hoping we can get to that third seed. Perspective right? Nine in a row. Harder than they had to be on most nights, but counts for something right? I guess if we win tomorrow all can be forgotten about temporarily. Though seeing as they have Brook Lopez and you imagine Karl is going to end the game with Faried at center to check him, hard to look forward to tomorrow. So instead hope we find that fire after the all star break that lasts us the rest of the season.

Cephus

Tough loss of course, it might just be worth it if Anthony Randolph makes it into the Karl inner sanctum of rotation players . He’s got his foot in the door & if he emulates Faried’s example, he’ll blow the sucker off it’s hinges.

Corey Brewer is going to have to step up his play if he wants hit free agency from a position of strength. Hope Danilo can breathe by gametime in Brooklyn. How does Greg Popovich do it in San Antonio with his best 3 players gonzo & still finding a way to win? No dig at Karl. Coming off triple overtime loss. significant injuries, I’m surprised it was close as it was.

CJP32

The problem starting CBrew is that he is better suited coming off the bench along with Miller. He got into early foul trouble and obv had the green light to shoot. 1/5 in the first qtr, then 2/6 rest of the game. He played decent D and had good looks, it just wasn’t happening tonight. He usually has a good bounce back game the next day.

I agree that he needs to cut down on the threes – they are not falling. But with no Gallo, Iggy or WC today, I guess he felt he had to try at least.

Jacob

Your 100% right on Brewer. He just looked like he was trying to do too much tonight. Understandable considering he was forced into being the leading wing player tonight.

I think this game should be taken with a grain of salt considering all the injuries. I don’t like making excuses often, but without the top 3 wing players and losing the most athletic center on the team mid game, I feel it is fair tonight.

bigelowsmalls

Love these games we’ve been playing. I think we can safely say we will most likely pay GS or MEM in the 1st round regardless of which teams finish where. Although I agree home court is crucial for the NUGS to have success, we have proved two awesome things as of late:

1) The NUGS can BALL

2) Ty would be an all-star if he didn’t play in the same conference as CP3 and Russell Westbrook

Andrew K

Listen, and I don’t claim to be some basketball aficionado, but Karl’s team played guys that play every other 5 games, and almost beat a team that has been playing lights out since they obtained a new star. I don’t think Karl deserves a D+, I think he deserves an A.

And you know what lost the game for the Nuggets, it was the inability to get a defensive rebound in the waning minutes of the game, coupled with the hot shooting from the Raptors. Other than that, the Nuggets dominated the game.

googergieger

And why couldn’t they get a rebound?

Jacob

I don’t think I would give him an A, but I would agree with your point the grade is harsh. The Raptors have been playing a much better brand of basketball since the trade and their wings are tough covers for anyone, let alone some of the last guys off the bench. Some will blame the defensive rebounding on the coachs lineup, but lets face it: Both Randolph and Faried are much better options than Mozgov there and while Koufus may have helped on the rebounding, they would have had a HUGE mismatch on whoever he was guarding at the end meaning they likely would have made the shot before the opportunity for the rebound presented itself.

Thomas

Toronto playing lights out? Hot shooting by the Raptors?

Toronto is awful – end of story. Hot shooting only happens against the Nuggets, mostly because our only guard that defends the perimeter well is AI (and hopefully Chandler).

Even though KK and Faried started very slowly (-10 in the first quarter), any other coach would have stuck with his 2 top defensive and rebounding big men for the remainder of the game, particularly with Gallo and Mcgee out.

No way we lose that game with KK alongside Faried for the entire 4th quarter.

Experimenting with Randolph makes me worried that GK now thinks he has to give him minutes. Please don’t!

Aaron

One thing people seem to be forgetting the last 2 games is that coaches just don’t bring cold guys off the bench at the end of games. They just don’t. . . like it or not. . .Karl certainly isn’t the only one. So, while I agree that KK would’ve set a better pick and been able to hand the ball off to Ty, Randolph clearly was the guy tonight, and you don’t bring in a guy who’s been sitting for 20 minutes (real time) to make a play. Against Boston, you don’t bring in cold guys during the 4th OT when you’ve been going with Miller. Now, in that case, it had gone on long enough, and Miller should’ve had a breather in one of the overtimes.

But, if you’ve played basketball, you know that coaches just don’t do that, . . never have. Some coaches won’t even do it for defensive purposes. . you want a guy that’s been mentally engaged recently in there. I disagree with that grade of Karl from tonight’s game where this issue was discussed.. He’s just like every other coach, you go with the guys you have in there at the end of games.

googergieger

Coaches also have accountability for everyone and not just some. Call time outs to stop runs and execute out of said time outs. And would be hard pressed to come up with a valid reason to not use one of their three seven footers if they were lucky enough to have em.

mcz84

totally agree with googergieger .Teams always go on big runs and Karls doesnt call timeouts when they should be called to stop momentum, we have 3 seven footers USE THEM !!!

Thomas

Hasn’t stopped GK from bringing in Miller at the end of games throughout the season, has it.

JoJo

WTF @ Brewer’s good defense?

WHAT DEFENSE?

DID YOU GUYS WATCH WHAT RUDY GAY DID TO HIM INCLUDING THE LAST POSSESSION WHERE BREWER GOT LOST AND GAVE HIM A WIDE OPEN SHOT?

Good cherry picker, good cutter, good leaks, brings energy. But what he is not is a good defender. He is freaking terrible and along with his shooting is one of the reasons what’s wrong with this team.

googergieger

He can be a good defender. However a lot of times he gets too gamble happy which is when Karl needs to sit him down and tell him good solid fundamental D is what he needs, and not the steal and fast break dunk. Still at this point I’m starting to wonder if we wouldn’t be better off with Jared Dudley, who does everything Brewer does but with more composure and a more consistent shot. Still I love Brewer’s energy and love of the game he brings every time he is on the court. He’ll play his heart out if you give him one minute or one hundred. Which helps the locker room I think. Not to mention it is good motivation for the starters. Have a guy who will leave it all on the court if they don’t bring it.

CJP32

GK has said many times that Brewer is the ‘wild card’ and is ok with his craziness. To say he gambles isn’t exactly accurate, he is a great leak out runner when the rebound is secure. After 52 games, you think GK is really gonna sit Brewer down and say ‘play differently’?

No he gambles. He goes for a lot of steals and often puts his team mates in tough spots to cover. Also to be fair Dudley plays with worse help defenders than Brewer, and is asked to guard much tougher opposition. Where I like Dudley is his shooting and decision making. But again I love what Brewer brings to this team and do hope they re-sign him. I honestly think he is the heart and soul of this team. Even more than Faried because Brewer always brings it.

JoJo

Brewer also shoots way more than Dudley does and less efficiently as well (15.6 FGA vs 10.8 per 36). You know what the sad thing is about this? He is shooting MORE at an incredibly inefficient rate.

Anywho, the one player I really hope Masai is looking at before the deadline is J.J. Reddick. The guy is a shooter and has a good enough inside game and statistically he grades well defensively. I’ve suggested Brewer + Hamilton for Reddick (since Hamilton is not going to amount to much under George Karl who is a terrible player developer) to Orlando forums and most like the trade.

googergieger

Personally I’d rather have Dudley. Cheaper than Reddick will be and he won’t command twenty plus minutes like Reddick would. Again I do like what Brewer brings to this team though. Just think Karl is incapable of going with the hot hand or hot line up. He is always going to play certain guys no matter what and no matter who we are playing against.

GK4Prez

Don’t look at the ppg between Dudley and Brew, look at the percentages. Dudley is much more consistent, and the defense has to respect his 3 ball. Brew is better in the open court, so it is a bit of a trade off in that regard.

CJP32

My question is where was the double team or help? Everyone in the building knew Rudy was getting the ball. Brewer got pushed off by Rudy, not much he could have done. Plus without Iggy, Gallo or WC, who did you prefer guarding him in the crunch??

Also, Rudy was in foul trouble in the first half with 4 PFs. Two of those fouls he committed on CBrew (offensive charge and a shooting foul). CBrew did an ok job, making Rudy’s night difficult with 6/14 FGs and limited minutes in the 2nd half. But yeah, soley blaming Brewer doesn’t make sense.

Ernie

There was an article on Grantland today where GK talked about substituting Stone in at the end of games for defensive purposes. This shocked me because there are never substitutions at the end of games. The 5 players left with 8 minutes to go finish the game, regardless of which game it is and who is left.

And for those that didn’t read the article, Miller even agreed with the idea of being substituted for at the defensive end. KK should have been in as well. Second game in a row with no substitutions, Boston game Lawson played 55 minutes as Jeremy also pointed out. It makes no sense.

rxmart2

Jeremy also said he thought Lawson would have a horrible next two games because of those minutes. The people on this board want to blame Karl and (insert player who had a bad game) for each loss, when sh*t just happens sometimes. The Nugs out-rebounded the Raptors on the offensive and defensive glass, and Toronto ran extremely hot with respect to bad shots (contested 2 point jumpers) and even hotter on contested 3’s. Sh*t happens, but I’m pretty happy with the way they played.

Karl getting a poor grade for this loss is laugable. The Nuggets were like 26-5 after timeouts and came out of the half like gangbusters.

theo

Amen. In my experience coach bashing is just what most fans do in every sport. I don’t take it seriously at all. Because we’re pretty radical individualists as Americans we always want to praise or blame a single person as the ‘representative’ of the much more complex team or organization and as a conduit for frustrations.

The grades here, in my small sample, on Karl are so grossly unfair that they’re difficult to understand. Love to hear the way the blog writers determine these grades. It looks on the surface like some people with animus toward Karl that give him no credit at all for the positive things the Nugs do and blame him for most of the negative.

Ernie

OK, how about addressing my actual criticism, which is that there is no substituting at the end of games?

Ernie

So…no thoughts on the lack of substitutions late in the game?

http://www.roundballminingcompany.com Jeremy

I did say that I thought Lawson would struggle after playing 90 minutes, including 55 in Boston, on the first two games of the trip and did he ever prove me wrong. Lawson is superhuman and is playing great ball. I hope he can carry it through to the second half of the season. I see no reason why he won’t. Confidence is high, his shot is falling and he is making good decisions.

JoJo

It’s always been like that with George Karl. Hell, if you go back to the playoffs series where the 8th seeded Nuggets upset Karl’s 1st seeded Seattle Sonics in 94, he was doing it then as well (going very small in the forth quarter and losing out on boards), and I’m willing to say that it was because of his rotations that allowed Mutumbo to dominate the boards and eventually make one of the biggest upsets ever.

theo

‘And there is plenty of proof of more superstars losing than winning. It is analytical proof at best. All winning teams had someone with facial hair. All winning teams had someone that was allergic to something. There are other variables.’

Trying to be reasonable here, but that’s the dumbest comment I’ve read on any NBA post in a long time.

I don’t even know what the term ‘analytical proof at best’ means. I’m guessing you mean ‘facts and measurable trends’ as opposed to hope and emotion. Let me repeat, nobody in the NBA other than you and Karl think a team can win a championship without star players. No evidence for it at all. None. Nada.

Yes, lots of teams with superstars have lost. Every team in the league loses each year except for one. So most superstars each year lose.

The point I and everyone else–I can’t believe I have to make this argument with a fan that seems knowledgeable–is that no team without stars has ever won a championship. Can you grasp the distinction between what I’m saying and your surprising comments on the topic?

As for your–please forgive me–really dumb comment about ‘facial hair’ being an equivalent of stars in explaining championships, I mean, are you serious? I think you were trying in your own interesting way to explain the difference between causality and correlation.

If you break down NBA championship teams in a scientific way, the only variable that is always in the mix is multiple star players. Always. Not facial hair, not left handers, and certainly not great coaches.

But it sounds like you think there are other variables that are always in the mix that would outweigh the clear need for star players to win a championship. I’m all ears. You’ve got a chance to change NBA thinking here. Go for it.

Jeff

Since we’re talking about analytics and scientific methods of predicting championship success, what is the scientific definition of a star?

googergieger

(:

googergieger

Sigh. The argument is there are other variables besides something as trivial as “super stars get you the chip!”.

I’ll ignore the fact you can’t grasp sarcasm. Defense wins championships? Okay argument can be made for that. I mean is Dirk a superstar? Offensively, one could make the argument. Detroit people have talked about all stars and defensive accolades and such. Match ups and a bit of luck could be something to talk about. It isn’t as simple as, super stars win you championships. That is the argument. I don’t think Denver will win it all any time soon. However that is more because I believe we have a coach that holds us back and a league that has a built in bias against certain teams that don’t have certain players. Officiating. Not super stars being a magic cure to everything.

I mean what are star players? Best at scoring? Defending? All around game? All star selections? All NBA team honors?

theo

Neither of you answered my question. Smiley faces don’t qualify as an answer. I asked you for evidence of a team that won a championship without a star or stars and you didn’t answer. I’m still looking for your specific answers. You turned it back on me. Since you won’t answer my question, I’ll answer yours.

Most people not lost in some odd niche analysis or part of Nugs management or a site controlled by Nugs management understand who stars are. Let’s make it very simple. No team without an all star has ever won a championship. Is that simple and clear enough for you? No team without at least one player and in virtually all cases multiple players that coaches, fans and fellow players–depending on the system at the time–thought was one of the 10-12 best players in their respective conference has every won a title. Wisdom of the crowd. Look it up. Nuggets? Not a player that was close this year.

We can break it down re advanced stats too. No team without at least one guy with long term very high–I mean, exceptional–player efficiency ratings have ever won a title. Nuggets? Nobody. Nada. Look it up.

We can also break it down with old timey stats. You know, the old stupid gotta have a couple of guys that can put up 20 a night and create their own shot, an interior defensive stopper and a perimeter stopper–easy to ascertain these days with advanced stats–, a big time assist guy (top ten or better in the league), a top perimeter shooter–these days a top three shooter, somebody that’s a 6th man of the year candidate, etc, etc. It’s not that complicated.

I would say the Detroit Pistons didn’t have a bunch of stars. But they did have all stars. If you’re asking if a team has ever won the championship without an all star the answer is no.

googergieger

Because your question was unanswerable and had nothing to do with what anyone said. I have never once said Denver can win it all this year. I have said since the beginning of the year, the fourth seed was ours for the taking, we’ll have a punchers chance at third, and we should make it to the second round and put up a fight in said second round. Be more than happy with that as it would show improvement from last year.

But you are asking someone to tell you when was the last time a team won without a star? Well you didn’t say what a star was. Iguodala has been an all star.

What is exceptionally high in PER for you? Twenty? Twenty four? Last year Faried had 22. something PER. Granted in about twenty four or five minutes.

Gallo could get twenty if he had more touches but Denver doesn’t play that way. Ty same thing. Post defender? We don’t have one. Need one. Don’t have one. Iguodala is the best perimeter defender in the game. Defensively has the same impact that Dwight Howard does. As far as what teams score when one is on the floor compared to off it. So there is that. Again though you are trying to have an argument nobody ever really tried to have with you. I and others were simply pointing out that it isn’t as simple as, “you don’t have the players Miami, OKC, Lakers(how is that for proving my point), or X have, therefore you won’t win. Because of that reason and that reason alone.”

I mean accolades dictate that since Kobe and Iguodala have been in the league, coaches and people that give out awards have repeatedly said Kobe is the better perimeter defender. Analysts, fans, and everyone else said Lakers would fight for the first seed and get to the finals at worst. Again I’m not saying Denver is going to win it all this year, or even next. Just saying it isn’t as simple as, “No Lebron? No Durant? Why bother?”.

theo

Wow. Nice response. My question was easy to answer. Simple. You deal in extreme comments. Why don’t pipe down a little and let other people here have a say?

googergieger

Wait a second, if you’re here…

then who’s under that bridge over there?!

Jeff

Theo you got your blood pressure all raised for no reason. I don’t even know what you were so hot about in the first place, Miller’s comments? You demanded an answer to your question and when you got one you told him to pipe down.

Charliemyboy

Defining a star is easy. Melo! We won titles with our star.

theo

‘Sigh?’

You can do better than that, can’t you? I’m hoping the thread here is better than that kind of arrogant response.

dynamo.joe

All-stars are decided by fans. Fans are idiots. Unless someone defines “star” by popularity contests using all-star as the definition is stupid. Remember when Yao’s best friend TMac was hot and heavy in the all-star voting?

pts rebs ast
20.2 15.9 1.6
21.4 15.8 2.0

One of those is Faried, one of those is Z-bo. If Z-bo is star, then so is Faried.

25.6 12.7 0.9
24.0 12.1 3.6

One of those is JaVale McGee the other is Kevin Garnett. If Garnett is a star, so is JaVale.

16.6 16.3 1.4
16.6 13.6 1.0

Kosta and Tyson Chandler.

22.3 9.8 4.9
24.7 7.9 3.4

Paul George and Gallo.

18.8 7.5 6.5
21.9 4.6 3.6

Iguodala (actual all-star) and Ray Allen. Allen is a decrepit old man, so I used the numbers from the last year he made the all-star team. Also note this is, statistically, the worst year of Iggy’s career and I still expect him to pick things up a notch.

17.6 7.2 14.2
21.3 3.7 9.6
16.7 5.6 10.8

Rondo and Ty and Miller. The Ty numbers obviously include a quarter season of mind-bogglingly bad Ty and a quarter of ‘Hey! Ty’s pretty good’.

26.4 3.6 10.1
24.3 5.1 13.8

Jan/Feb Ty and CP3.

I am certainly not saying every Nuggets player should be an all-star, I’m just pointing out that the margins between them and guys who are stars is razor thin and not always in favor of the star.

I’m not as high as others on our remaining players.

Jham will top out slightly above average for a g/f. That’s great if he is coming off the bench and merely not bad if he is starting for you.

I’m not willing to estimate what Fourniers ceiling might be, but if he can’t get a handle on TO’s and PF’s he shouldn’t even be in this league.

Brewer’s 3pt and free throw shooting are just not good enough for him to be anything more than a 15 minute guy. Unfortunately he gets more time than that now.

Randolph desperately wants to be a SF or stretch 4 but hasn’t the handle or the shooting to make it work.

Mozgov is basically like Brewer. He could/should be playing 10-15 minutes on a good team.

The only deep bench player I think has the talent to be an all-star is Julyan Stone. But he will be a pass first, defending PG not a scorer. So, unless he moves to a big market it’s doubtful he will ever get all-star consideration.

And that’s the State of the Nuggets, talent-wise, as I see it.

theo

Again, I’m new here, so hope this won’t sound like too dumb of a question. Who is googergeiger? I’m assuming one of the guys that writes the blog. A fan? Nugs front office personnel? In any case, the dude dominates the thread. Just trying to figure out the ecology here so I can contribute better.

AaronCAPS

Yeah ,He Puts out a lot of good comments.

http://yahoo.com prospector

Theo,
Are you Karl’s cousin? If not, you need to go to a eye doctor cause what you are seeing is definitely not what is happening on the court…. Wait, I bet you listen to the games on the radio? RIGHT? Go ahead, put you MILLER jersey on with your headset and listen to a nice game, cause you are not in reality…. What does Karl need to win? An All NBA guard? He had one in Payton… An all star forward? Shawn Kemp…. And he had depth, and you know what??? He got punked by little number eight DENVER NUGGETS… Any coach that could choke like that with a team like that needs to be shown the door… PERIOD… Oh wait, we must be playing HORSESHOES… KARL gets the nice try award for all his playoff appearances…. FIRE KARL NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ckwizard

Karl deserves an “F” for this game because of one simple thing this year… Hamilton, Fornier, or Randolph pick one Karl or Pick a different one every game to give 7 minutes to, take those minutes from the time you have Miller and Lawson on the court together for every game this year. Nuggets would probably have a better record and those players would be better this game giving the Nuggets better defense and offense this game. Karl your love affair with Miller and two poit gaurd line ups not only puts the Team at a defensive disadvantage but also stunts the growth of your talented young players.

rxmart2

Yeah because the Miller Lawson combo is only the second most successful lineup Denver puts out there… yeah that.

neumdaddy

So many of these grades seem bizarrely within a vacuum. The net impact on the game seems to be disregarded in a lot of ways. I know these grades were prefaced with “some may not agree,” but that doesn’t make the grading scales any less weird at times here on RMC.

http://yahoo.com prospector

7 of 10 three pointers for The Raptors in the 4th QTR. And you know what??? Andre Miller played ALL 12 MINUTES… Coincedence? NOT!!!!! How many freaking times did Andre cheat to the paint, thus leaving his guy open for a three. Once either JHAM or Faried looked at Miller after he gave up a three, with a look like “DUDE what the hell are you doing?” This is complete B/S and I have no respect for MASAI for allowing this to continue… KK should have played 30 or 32 minutes at the least, instead Karl gives him 20… Faried should have had like 36 minutes easy.. Instead only 30.. ARE YOU FREAKIN KIDDING ME???? Then after the game KARL has the gaw to complain about a lack of rebounding… LACK OF REBOUNDING??? YOU HAD NO CENTER AND TWO POINT GUARDS ON THE FLOOR… WHAT THE HELL DO YOU FREAKING EXPECT????

Karl is such a complete stubborn fool…. No matter what the situation his answer is to go small….. Need a big stop? Go Small…. NEED A BIG REBOUND?? GO SMALL…. This is beyond sickening…. I hope all you “KARL IS A GREAT COACH, why don’t you guys cut him some slack” people finally understand what an idiot he is, cause if you don’t you are a bigger fool than Karl is….. JHAM had 2 steals and 2 blocks.. Can anyone here tell me why EVAN started over JHAM??? Is that fair??? JHAM has been here 2 years, and EVAN gets the start cause KARL loves his EURO’s….

This is bullshit.. If we would have played our bigs more minutes, we would have won… Hands down… If KARL would have sat that piece of shit MILLER down in the 4th, we would have won…. Hey MILLER people? Do any of you know anything about defense??? This season is turning into a big waste…… Hello early playoff exit with slacker MILLER closing games out………
And this my friends Hurts…. Hurts real bad!!!

rxmart2

I agree, let’s fire Karl because Denver had been so successful before he came here.

He’s not an elite coach, but he’s one of the best. The only people who don’t think so are Nuggets’ homers.

http://yahoo.com prospector

DUDE, we are pissed cause the games could be coached better!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND!!!! There is no need to be playing SMALL EVERY FREAKING GAME…… I CAN’T TAKE IT ANYLONGER.. Any it’s fans like you that allow this crap to continue year after freakin year… MASAI has been loading us up… As long as we have MASAI we will continue to will despite KARL…
But MASAI, please, please, please trade Miller!!!!!!!!!! FOR ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE WORLD… TRADE HIM NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Charliemyboy

I agree. Miami plays small ball and doesn’t know what they are doing.

Charliemyboy

Right. I just cannot wait for the Sacramento coach to replace him!

http://yahoo.com prospector

GRADES:

MILLER = INCOMPLETE.. Does not deserve a grade due to his pathetic perimter defense..

KARL = N/A.. Clearly he is insane, and incapable of making any decisions…… He is like a monkey that has been trained to press a square for a banana…. Only KARL presses a square for small ball lineup…

Fed up Nug

I’m seriously LMAO at the banana button small ball analogy. I know you are as excited as I am to see him pound that button into the ground in the playoffs again 😀

Popovic has already said European coaches need, and I gave him reason to Pop
To my NBA coaches are usually very bad.
GK is the best here in Madrid and did pretty bad. As a person he was phenomenal, a real gentleman.

steve

Must win tonight…dont want to lose all momentum going into the 2nd half of season. Without DWILL, we should win. But it’s on the road and end of a 4 away games in 5 days.

We need a shooter though. Don’t need to sell the farm but please go out and get Redick or Korver or heck even Morrow. Even a guy like Morrow for 15 minutes a game that we can kick out to would be nice. he’s career 40%+ from 3.

Thomas

Better to save money and get a promising sharp shooter like John Jenkins of Atlanta on a rookie salary, if possible. Outstanding spot-up shooter – just what we need.

steve

dont get me wrong i like jenkins but we need to bring in someone that has experience. i want to make it out of the 1st rd. we can’t keep “building.” at some point we will have to make a move. I dont want to sell the farm…but it’s obvious a guy like jordan hamilton isn’t getting time anytime soon. Mozgov Hamilton and a pick for Redick? Or even Mozgov for Morrow.

Thomas

Experience counts, but then again both Redick and Morrow have had horrible postseasons the last 2 years – shooting way below their career averages.

If the only thing they bring is shooting, it would be great to not overpay and not have to commit to a long term deal.

Mark

When we were down by one with 4 seconds left and the ball on an inbounds play, I turned the TV off. I literally said out loud to myself, “Gee, I wonder if the next play is going to be four guys standing around, staring at Lawson while he dribbles and fails to get a good shot off.” When I watched the highlights this morning I wanted to throw up.

Z

So JHam couldnt carry the team? i mean i read everyday people should be shipped off so he can play

Thomas

Despite shooting a low percentage (much like CBrew), JHam rebounded and even blocked shots. Regardless, you can only judge a young player’s potential by letting them play significant minutes – not 27 minutes of just one game.

Great short read for those of us concerned about Karl’s mental health…

Mark from Charlotte

The Nuggets played well tonight. But it is sad that this coaching staff cannot develop players on this team. Jham F94 and AR15 looked rusty tonight because of lack of coaching. Can someone tell me why Amiller is on the court during crunch time, this guy can’t play defense.

gfacekillah8

i love the karl hate man. i bet the people that say fire karl are the same ones that say stone, hamilton and randolph deserve more minutes. some people are insane.

out of the top six teams in both eastern and western conferences the nuggets are the only one without a SINGLE all star. we have had one of the toughest schedules in the league to this point. with all this against us we are still in the hunt for home court advantage in the playoffs. yeah we must have a really terrible coach. the fact is that the reason why always overachieve is because of Karl. he is not perfect and does some crazy stuff but he is one of the best.

those of you who are dying to get rid of him….who would you rather have? you have to look at everything objectively. in the NBA right now there are only 3 or 4 coaches who genuinely might be better than Karl. Pop, Thibodeau, Rivers and Rick Carlisle (maybe). I won’t put guys like Spoelstra or Scott Brooks in there because they have unbelievable talent on their teams. I am sure that Miami and OKC would still make the finals with Karl coaching them. But even if you look at the guys i mentioned, they all have all stars or future hall of famers on their teams (Duncan, Parker, Noah, Deng, Rose, KG, Pierce, Rondo, Dirk). Karl has none of the above on the Nuggets. He has a bunch of quality players but no superstars. That shows the quality of his coaching.

i get frustrated with losses like the one last night and on Sunday as much as anyone. but the fact that we were able to be competitive against a decent Toronto team with 4 of our main players out is amazing.

Go Nuggets.

Jeff

I totally agree with you. Karl is frustrating sometimes but he knows what he’s doing. Anytime the Nuggets lose, everybody picks apart the lineups and gives their own example of what player should have been in or out that would have won the game. It’s not that easy. Karl knows what he’s doing.

googergieger

Bring it on Karl fans. Can’t wait to hear the excuses tonight. Giving up wide open three’s? Not Karl’s fault. He only plays the players that give up wide open three’s big minutes. He only plays those same players that didn’t do anything on offense. He only let a lead balloon to double digits without calling a time out when literally everyone watching with half a brain saw it coming. Can’t wait Karl apologists. Can’t fucking wait.