A Lamp in the Dark: The Untold History of the Bible

An exciting documentary that unfolds the fascinating untold history of the Bible, revealing critical information often overlooked in modern histories. Enter into a world of saints and martyrs battling against spies, assassins and wolves in sheep's clothing.

Throughout the Middle Ages, the Papal Inquisition forbade biblical translation, threatening imprisonment and death to those who disobeyed. Learn the stories of valiant warriors of the faith, such as John Wycliffe, William Tyndale, Martin Luther, the ancient Waldenses, Albigenses and others who hazarded their lives for the sake of sharing the Gospel light with a world drowning in darkness.

Once the common people were able to read the Bible, the world was turned upside down through the Protestant Reformation. The Reformers subdued whole kingdoms by preaching the grace of God, and exposing the unbiblical doctrines of Rome. In response, the Vatican would launch a Counter Reformation to destroy the work of the Reformers, including the bibles they produced.

This video covers subjects ranging from the Gospels, to the Reformation with Martin Luther, the Counter-Reformation and the Jesuits (the Black Pope and Sovereign Military Order of the Knights of Malta), and the fascinating story surrounding William Tyndale and the different Bible translations.

I will never understand why people give 2 hoots about what some goat herder thought about religion 2000+ years ago.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000631933465 Fecioru Florin

pro christian propaganda

Guest

This one will have to wait on Monday!
Have fun poking fun at.......
az

Sabin Russell

boring

http://www.facebook.com/fhazlett Fred Hazlett

This is almost laughable, as much carnage the christians have had to endure they have dished out 2 fold.

leonardobdas

I can't wait until the pastafarians start to split into sects, you know....the rondellinians, the spaguettinians, the fagottinians (this one obviously open for gay people), cus then we will have fancy mockumentaries about their mutual love. yay.

Achems_Razor

3 hours long? damn.

GrittyKat

Ha thats funny I just came upon this and thought 3 hours long, YEAH! I could watch stuff about the bible and religion all day long and I am gonna start on this one right now.

eugler

Indoctrination dude, teaching a child superstition from the moment it can speak apparently tends to stick...

Guest

Fortunately, I picked up on that (with help from a lot of very great writers -Voltaire, Hitchens, etc.- and my own experiences with church child-abuse, psychologically speaking) before I ever had any of my own kids. None of them have been allowed to go to church, as a consequence. If they want to look into it when they're old enough to think clearly for themselves, well...fine. But if they do, and begin to have doubts -as I'm sure they would- at least they won't have that indoctrination getting in the way of their thinking, and clouding their point of view with fear-based emotions and manipulations from an early age. As others have said, the fact that religions feel they need to use such techniques should suggest how unlikely they are of being right... I'm confident my kids will be just fine, if it ever comes to that. In the meantime, I am vigilant.

Guest

That is funny! But what kind of HATS will they have? Perhaps strainers of different kinds...

Let's leave religion out in such matters. In fact, just think about how this documentary starts off by saying how many people literally DIE because of the bible. Whether for good or bad... something is wrong here! They then proceed to discuss how important the Bible is... contradictions RIDDLE religious people when they try to critically think... and that is were they get in trouble.

Eniki520

I'd say more then two fold, they f'ed up the Americas, Asia, and Africa. I don't think they have they ever meet another culture and not screw them.

Crab_Nebula

Yes! and in likewise fashion.. Mcdonalds resturants have no business installing the drywall in my new addition so they should just stay out of it all together, and just stick to the Big Macs and fries we had on break.

http://www.topdocumentaryfilms.com Epicurus

3 hours of myth is not my idea of fun. I might watch it just for the history and a better understanding of why people actually believe this silly stuff.

greyspoppa

Narration alone will give me nightmares and i only lasted 2 mins in thought maybe just slow start i mean it is 3 hours long but no i skipped through a few parts and it is bad. One bad one out of how many though and maybe some will like so thanks Vlatko not bitching you still da man

Brandon Schultz

Please. The orthodox and only TRUE holy word for the sacred headgear of the pastafarians is the Holy Colander. Any other term is from the Pizza Devil and a lie.

greyspoppa

@Epicurus for the the love "christ" dont even play like you can watch the whole thing its that bad!!!

robertolapiedra

Pro-protestant, anti-catholic but definitely not christian.

applejaws

This is a bunch of malarky!!!

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=624799839 Jen Dando

I am very objective and will watch/listen/read from all points of view to a good extent but this is tippy toeing into fundamental and dangerous belief.. and before anyone yells! I have no problem with anyones beliefs, everyone is entitled to believe what they want... but this is obviously a very distinct interpretation and not one I'm comfortable with, and not one of my Christian friends are with either, they as me like objectivity and this just does not have it!

robertallen1

After five minutes of bad acting and at least three historical mistakes, I turned this piece of crap off.

robertallen1

After five minutes of bad acting and at least three historical mistakes, I turned off this piece of garbage.

Guest

Guilty as charged...

Justin_Funski

This is not a history doc, it's a religious dogma doc (with all historical inaccuracies included). Don't waste your 3 hours.

misterwong

This is not really a documentary in the objective sense.More of a history of the Bible in Western Civilisation.It is presented from the Christian perspective of belief.It is curious on this site how these pro christian docs invite so much dismissive criticism of a faith that they don't believe in anyway.Does the Bible story teach harmful or bad lessons?In context does it provide comfort to believers?And if the doc were the story of the Teachings of the Buddah,or the Tibetian Book of the Dead,The Book of Hours,Story of viking or Greek Heroes or the Story of Krishna,would the free thinkers of TDF be so anxious to denounce it as Panacea of the ignorant masses?A corrosive fantasy of the deluded bovine jerks who would aspire to a divinity?This show of smugness does us no credit,all of you vastly evolved intellects.Your intemperance is revealing itself.However,this doc is for a Sunday School,not for us,and it is rather biased and corny

http://www.facebook.com/tessaro1 Michael Tessaro

This piece is awful. I tried to watch in the interest of giving the other side some equal time... but, EVERYTHING about it, starting with the "narration for dolts" on through the petty nature of another set of "Gods' people" as they brutalize one another in the nastiest of ways, is just silly. Are Christians really pulled in by this Hollywood crap/drama? Just seems like unintelligent propaganda for a 10 year-old.

Love this site. Was logging on daily when the subscribers were in the hundreds. Well done Vlatko

any docu that takes the bible as literally true within the first 3 minutes is not unbiased.

The real untold story about the bible is how it came to be and the pagan myths that it was condensed from.

I got through 19 minutes before turning it off. I'm proud of myself for sitting that long :3

Guest

I read some comments before watching this film .
I am only a few minutes into it and am glad I am watching it.
It does not support Christianity ,nor Religious views. In fact it sarcastically says the opposite.
So far from what I see it is really showing the contradiction of Religious views of Christianity as being what it is....A fraudulant religion that was politically re created from a pagan religion and twisted combined to another for political gain and control. It was not based on the true teachings of followers of a man named Jesus. I think Jesus existed and taught that the Kingdom of heaven is in us and that God Consciousness was already in us. His total teachings were twisted and made to fit with Pagan Religions.

This is also what the film is showing... It is not supporting Religion or Christianity.

Guest

Thanks Vlatko for another great Doc. Yes, as you can see I am finding my way out of the dark woods of Religious/Biblical darkness and Mumbo Jumbo too!

I have yet to sort out A Jesus existance for sure or not yet. Keep these docs coming please they do help very much!

http://www.facebook.com/regislo Lo Regis

A thorough look at the Bible and Christianity.

Shahzad Khalid

Everyone is putting the ideas in Bible and it is no more original and it cant give true guidance to mankind.

wald0

Don't do that, don't try to reduce religion to simply giving comfort to its followers or teaching them good moral and ethical lessons. If that was all it did no one would have a problem with it, but its not. It controls politics, society, it causes issues with education, it tells homosexuals to be ashamed of their sexuality, it distorts history, it causes people to think they have a obligation to push their beliefs on as many people as possible no matter how much they resist even if they have to kill or torture them and destroy their entire history and culture to do so, it even interferes with health care, economics, and family politics. That's why we have an issue with it, because it effects us that do not believe in it as much as those that do, and in a negative way.

As far as your question about other religions, look around on the site. You will see many docs about these other religions and many people posting how they are conjecture and fantasy. Some will even go as far as to say they are just as destructive as western religions. That said, these other religions are not as prominent and they do not cause the issues that the major western religions cause generally. Mostly because they are simply not practiced by enough people for them to have any real influence over things like politics or education in first world countries, but also because they are simply not as exclusive nor violent as western religions. Study the teachings of Buddha and you never come across things like the Christian belief that anyone that doesn't accept this doctrine as truth is doomed to burn for eternity or that wives must be submissive to their husbands. I am not defending these religions as truth or as healthy even, but they are no where near as violent and repulsive as some of the Christian teachings I have come across. They have never inspired the global conflict and blood shed that Christianity or Islam have.

Guest

Very, very well said, Wald0. You have a way of getting right to the heart of a subject. I envy that.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Maaz-Aslam/504013851 Maaz Aslam

Islam is the truth! *period*

fhade

Interesting to watch Jesus a middle-eastern man is able to create so much trouble in the west even after his death.

Guest

There are even some here who might do the same, if you allowed them to... I've always very much preferred to be a peacemaker, but I've noticed that a lot of what passes for truth doesn't actually provide much leeway for that. Or truth.

Guest

Can you hear yourself? You sound like a lone trumpet in the wilderness shouting " My dogs bigger then your Dog"

misterwong

Wald0;Thanks for the post.I am truly aware of the corruption of Christianity
throughout history and in the world politic.Even now,it threatens our nation
by encouraging the people to quit their sensibilities and trust in the
divine authority of ultra conservative religious Svengalis with political
ambitions.Yes,it's infuriating,frustrating and unsettling to watch people
surrender common sense for the promise of Eternal Salvation.As the Devil's
Advocate(paradoxically)however,I'm also irritated by the patent degradation
of those whose faith provides an important compass in their lives.To dismiss
these folks out of hand as kooks or imbecilic,cultists is certainly
unfair.It is prejudiced and judgemental and doesn't reflect tempered,open
minded thought.If we learned anything from the Christian Church is that
intolerance is wrong.No matter how right you may think you are.

misterwong

Note that my distinction is referring to the bible itself as a book,( as with the other aforementioned books,as compiled stories and myths)and not to the religions that claim its authority from it.I am unable nor willing to defend religion

Guest

Personally, the only people I've ever met who COULD qualify themselves as 'vastly evolved intellects' would be those who are sure they've got all the answers they will ever need for anything. And you know that's an assumption you see in a religious mindset more than any other. I don't think that's the majority view of the minds I'm acquainted with here, however it may seem sometimes. We all have our pride, and many of us should probably study more than we speak, but...that's just human nature, right ? However irritating it might be! But I've noticed that the more irritated someone gets at a display of intelligence in someone else, the more of their own pride in this regard they tend to have. However, I've ALSO noticed that you can get just as pissed when it's clear someone is wrong about something, and they don't see it, lol. Speaking for myself, I watch these docs and read and make posts in an effort to learn and gain understanding, because I'm very aware of how much I could use both. Some of the insights people have here are pretty astonishing to me, including yours. And very often something is really only clear (or clearer) in my mind after I've gone through the trouble of trying to write something down about it. The act of doing that really makes me think harder about the subject than I probably otherwise would. And that's the main thing, and the best thing, I get out of this website. I also suspect that's true for most of us here. So don't be so hard on us, man! We're only human.

Dean Edgington

mmmmm sausages

Yavanna

Islam is an anagram of Mails! 'period'

0zyxcba1

@ leonardobdas

Wha?

It's already happend.

I see clearly you failed in mentioning the Linguiians and Ravioians.
Hardly surprising. Apostates! Common tofu eaters!

I myself am a Fagottinian.

I would not go so far as to claim my brothers and sisters of other traditions in the Universal Church of the Flying Spagetii Moster (pbuh)
are not true Pastafarians, but upon having been touched by His Noodly Appendage, the Sauce spilled forth revealing unto me the One True Way to the Grated Parmesan Cheese of His Pastity, the FSM (pbuh), the Way of Fagottinianism.

Tomorrow, we Fagottinians, in communion with Pastafarians of all persuasions in our, ye, small, but righteous, community, shall boil
alive two, self-proclaimed Linguiians. Seven days hence, there unto,
shall the boiling waters of His Sacred Cauldron consume five of the
most notorious, unashamed, brazen Ravioians.

Praised be The FSM (pbuh)!

0z

0zyxcba1

@ Maaz Aslam

Pastafarianism is the truth! *exclamation point*

0z

0zyxcba1

Pastafarianism is the truth! *exclamation point*

0zyxcba1

Praised be the Flying Spagetii Moster (pbuh)!

Guest

Yeah, you got it!

Guest

And blessed be his holy 'balls!

(That statement's gonna conflict a little bit with what I said to misterwong earlier. I REALIZE that... Oh, well, I had to do it.)

StillRV

For the same reason many quote Confucius (sp), The Tao, Socrates, Plato, or any of the miriad thinkers and philosophers of bygone years. The ocupation of the thinker does not discredit the thought. Nor does the elapsed time from the thought to now. I'm not Christian but some of the messages and stories are indeed inspirational and pleasant. I prefer Taoist philosophy myself for it is more catered to my individualistic nature, howener even then only as a source for uplifting ideas.

leonardobdas

POOH.REE.UD!

Kyana McCoy

There is no truth.

His Forever

Yeah, I was surprised about that part. They mentioned a lot I didn't know about papal history, etc.

His Forever

I'm not a historian. What were the historical mistakes in the first five minutes?

His Forever

Once you get past the long introduciton, this is a very thorough doc. about the translating of the English Bible. Very interesting. I'm glad I lived in an age when I could read the Bible for myself without being burned or beheaded for just reading it.

George Bradley

For a good review of this skip past all the comments to the discussion originating from the review by the venerable Mr. Wong

His Forever

I can truly say that I'm a wholehearted pastatheist!

robertallen1

To mention four:

1. According to the New Testament, Jesus was not a carpenter; his father was.

2. Crucifiction, a Roman method of execution, was a private ritual, not the DeMille spectacle which this documentary would have one believe.

3. Jesus was pretty much unknown and uninfluential in his lifetime, as there are only two surviving non-biblical accounts of him and these are short, consisting of one or two perfunctory sentences. In particular, Lucian mentions him, but only in passing--see Wikipedia.

4. Most of the early acolytes of Jesus (Christianity had not come about yet) were Jews themselves (the Jews either in whole or in part were not shamed) and there was considerable debate as to whether these Jews should retain their laws and traditions or jettison them altogether. It was only later (perhaps 50 to 60 years) that Christanity started to take a hold on the gentile world.

I don't pass myself off as a Biblical scholar, but the preceding points are basic to Biblical scholarship.

His Forever

I agree with 90% of that. I learned a lot about the history of the Bible in Western civilization that I didn't know otherwise. Nearly all docs are biased, like the pro-Islamic docs or the evolution docs or the 911 conspiracy docs--virtually all docs. You just have to look past that if you want the history only.

His Forever

It's not light watching, AZ. But, with 3 hours, you can start it and then paint or do other stuff too like I sometimes do. I found it very informative, actually.

Hilarious. What great satire. Reminds me of Monty Python at their best. I laughed til I cried. Those crazy Christians - what a bunch of fun guys.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Boberts/1150994420 Bob Boberts

This is an awesome documentary, its just not as flashy as some of the others but a tremendous amount of research and work went into it. Im sure the film maker would have loved to use HD cameras and famous actors for the reenactments but what he did is still quite amazing. It is NOT pro-Christian. Anyone who says so didnt watch the documentary. It only states facts, as a documentary is supposed to. It is a HISTORY of Christianity, not a profession of its so-called truth. YES it is long, but watch it instead of making some stupid comment that you arent even qualified to make if you havent watched it.

wald0

O.K. I can buy that, that we shouldn't simply belittle people that are simply doing something that the vast majority of humans through time have done. After all I disagree with their practices, not them personally. That said, I think tolerance can be taken too far. Tolerance should end when someones rights infringe on another person's rights. This is why I refuse to tolerate things like stoning a young girl that has been raped or made the mistake of leaving her home without her husband. She has the right to life, and the communities right to religious beliefs do not trump that right IMO. I believe tolerance for Christianity ends when they interfere with politics, start killing abortion doctors, (reference above post)

When did it become so out of the question to offend someone anyway? If we never offend anyone nothing would ever change. Intolerance doesn't necessarily mean violence, it simply means speaking out and saying what you believe to be right no matter if it offends someone or not. Using violence or closing these people out of society would be more destructive than what they are already doing to the country, so I don't support that in the least. I do however support the end of the concept that religion is so sanctified and personal that it is out of bounds to question someones religious beliefs. Almost nothing deserves that status, especially when it effects all of us like religion does.

The same goes for child rearing. I am sick of parents telling me that this is their kid and they have the right to raise them anyway they see fit. Your children will one day be part of society and we will all have to deal with their behavior. But, that's a whole other post and not related to this doc. So I will not go further.

Guest

Since I watched it completely am I now qualified to make some stupid comment?

0zyxcba1

All the elements of a mystery play:

Good and Evil; Secret Societies; Conspiracies and Plots;
Lots of Blood and Guts.

Fantastic!

THEISM = BLOOD

0z

Guest

robertallen - no, his stepfather was a carpenter as the fairy-tale goes.

0zyxcba1

@ lakhotason

Naturally!

The stupider, the better.

0z

Guest

I am a Spaghetti-O convert. Chef Boy-Ar-Dee (peace be upon his name) is the true prophet.

GrittyKat

OK, I changed my mind, could not get past 25 min. of it. Slow, boring reading of the scriptures. If it got better I did not have the patience to find out. Maybe I'll finish wathcing it when I try to fall asleep.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Bob-Boberts/1150994420 Bob Boberts

i think you first comment was appropriate actually. didnt want people thinking this was a Pro-Christian documentary. I found more reasons to hate the Church from this vid and i wanted to make sure i could share that with the good people here! It sounds christian at first but is tongue in cheek. knowing history prevents its repetition dude! And yay, he saith unto me, 'These pages from thine Bible make righteous rolling papers' saith the Lord

Guest

Hi Joe ! Yeah I watched it all and it was great. There was loaded with info that I haven't heard yet elsewhere that even more so showed the insanity and Incredibility of the Religious movement , Unconsciousness and absurdity thereof.

Guest

Don't know why you did not like it. Unless you are impatient. It gave me even more facts to discredit any Ideals toward a credible Early Church Christiandom.
I would of thought you would of liked it if it help shows others why you are Anti/ religious

Guest

This is an amusing white, middle-aged, and of course, Anglo-Saxon version of Christian history. Most peculiar.

0zyxcba1

@ lakhotason

Yeah, I guess I should've placed 'pbuh' after the Prophet's name,
Chef Boy-Ar-Dee (pbup). Stupid of me. I live in the knowledge
that the All Merciful Flying Spaghetti Monster shall forgive me,
for I do repent.

Amen.

0z

Achems_Razor

@Connie777:

Me impatient? absolutely! There is no "facts" at all in this doc, facts about what? stuff written in some old books.

To me Christiandom (sic) is discredited by default, religions especially what they portray, to me are not real.

Guest

Yes there was facts! The film was loaded with facts and references as to how the Religion was founded. It was founded on illogical thinking and a melting pot of Pagan religion and political propaganda and called it Christianity even the Jesus followers did not accept it. It was a forced rule of state, not even Jesus's teachings according to the Jesus followers.

That's Kool if you are way past all that. But impatient and lack of understanding if it helps others to see through the muck and Dogma.

I love the extra info I had not heard anywhere else, such as Constantine still persecuting Christians even after Christianity was excepted. The churches try to use Constantine as the great reformed and give thanks to him as to establishing the Church and Christianity. While he was really a propagandist and only used Christianity against itself and it was and still is made up and worship of the Sun God. Many Christians do not know that they are worshiping the Sun-God with its Pagan practices and its tall pentacles of sex orgy symbolism on top of its churches etc.........

Guest

*somewhat shamefaced*
Wow, fellas. How OLD am I getting? I've only just now found out the Pastafarians are LEGIT!!... Googled the term, read some articles, and nearly laughed myself into an asthma attack. Punishment, no doubt, for my inexcusable ignorance at this late date. But...I have now been touched by His Noodly Appendage (turns out I liked it, too, that one time...), and with faith from hereon (R'amen, my brothers! *in Malcolm McDowell voice*), I trust I may be vouchsafed a beer hat, a muscular tongue, and a spot under a queening chair in the world to come. Forgive me, O my brothers! Arrggghh...

Guest

That was my stupid comment.

Achems_Razor

Yes, everything you have mentioned I already knew. If this doc helps others that is good.

Guest

Connie - There were facts but just as pertinent as facts, there were omissions of fact. But in the end what is fact if based upon myth?

Guest

Surely theism does equal blood but I do not indulge the thought that theism alone is the cause of blood-letting.

0zyxcba1

nobody said it was

Guest

You are correct. You did not say this. I said this.

0zyxcba1

@ Joe_NYC

WOW
Is it worth while?

NO.

0z

0zyxcba1

@ Bob Boberts

Come on, now.

The tone of the whole thing, beginning to end, was like an infomercial.

This is a wonderful doc. We are not here on earth for long ppl, our days are numbered. Bottom line is, we are eternal creatures, our souls will live forever, heaven or hell, you better work this out with yourself, it is the most important part of all our lives.

I must, with respect, tell you that you are wrong. I see where you are coming from, because one must be born again of the spirit in order to understand the things of the spirit and of Christ. I hope the best for you.

0zyxcba1

@ Adam Christopher Rohaley

Oh, dear.

Here we go again.

0z

Guest

Adam - You seem to be a bright man. Tell me, if our days are numbered why are we so different from let us say, a dung beetle ,if it is the ending of mortal life that begets eternal existence? Really hard to tell from the dung beetle's point of view.

Guest

There is nothing I would say about your beliefs. Nothing at all. Why am I wrong?

Achems_Razor

You fundamentalist religee's are scary Mother F***er's. Can't wait for your rapture to rid the planet of you.

Guest

excuse me but didn't you Mean " Holy Mother F***ers ? :-)"

StillRV

Not debating religion today, not worth it but Achems. Old books can contain facts. that was a bad argument you have done much better.

Guest

Considered in its whole content, it is the history of the (Catholic/Protestant) feud in England, rather the Ireland thing.
Whatever that doc. relate to outside the UK is a tool to the main tropic (Protestant/Catholic) feud. I liked the translation (Childish) of the term "Vicar" becoming "Anti" or contra, againts...
Thus catholic priest = Antichrists! HiHiHi! Sarcasm at it best!

Vicar is an old (Anciant) French term that meant: -"An assistant to some leader (Whatever leader...) can count on, can lean "Against" to find support".
As carpenters beam that stand "Against" ("Contre" in French) a column of the foundations of buildings ...
Whouh! Crooked ideas in poor translation. (A bit biaised).
French is closer to Italian than English can be even if the 3 languages mingled through centuries.
Oh! Also a good thing to learn what was, where the Jesuite brotherhood came from. The medieval root of the CIA that later mingled with NAZI war criminals?

Anyhow, they conclude by what they should have begun with: The "Apocalypse & Book of Revelations". EG: Paul holy scriptures.
I would have greatly appreciated that they would have first mentioned the non-holy scriptures some archeologists found lately.

Maybe too recent to be in that doc but telling us so much...
Some Greek who knew Paul (Since Paul traveled a bit) state that some mushrooms from the north were pretty, pretty much funny to gobble.
Mohammad and many others had the same "Reclusive" behavior normally observed in psychotropes consumption at the age of maturation in these and thoses days.
In short, it is to figure out that knowledge through the consumption of weird mushrooms and hashish date back to days much earlier than year "0".
Humankind used these before it ever though of any Gods or "After-Life".
It could even be the reason why human beings began to "Think about these spiritual things", the brain starts to rev up!

There's the right dose and there's the excess but as time goes by, the excess or the habit always shown to be detrimental.
There were peoples on drugs in those days!
And today, we still discuss what their thoughts meant exactly?

Go figure!

Guest

I like the mushroom thing.

misterwong

In summa ,(my thoughts) the saga of the bible is like the Da Vinci Code novel.It's a forbidden book and possession and authority over its interpretation has always been coveted.It is a secret knowledge that must be kept from the common people.It was jealously guarded by the Church of Rome and the rulers of her Empire.Its influence on western politics and culture cannot be overestimated,and the lust for power and Divine Right has always come at a terrible,violent price.The film clearly indicts the Roman Catholic Church as a power-mad,inhumane,evil corporation whose global ambition and influence politically continue today.The growing movement to create a Christian,religiously driven government in America is an ominous,dangerous spectre of the past. I often think that Prof.Richard Dawkins is right..It would be a better world without religions and the divisivness it creates.

0zyxcba1

@ StillRV"Old books can contain facts..."

Indeed, old books can contain facts.
But because they may be old, does not mean they do.

_______________
P.S.:
Telling Achems: "...you have done much better" would seem
odd coming from you, as Achems always does "much better"
than 'some'.

0z

Achems_Razor

@StillRV:

Actually your right, not in my best form today, as they say familiarity breeds contempt, as in religion. Old books, manuscripts like the dead sea scrolls, Et al. and/or others, concerning Amanita Muscaria and such, magic mushrooms, mana from heaven? might contain some good facts, religion starters? Eh? I know, no proof, but still. Should ask the Vatican for their old books from antiquity, probably some good stuff in there.

Edit: Just noticed your post Ozy thank you for that!

Achems_Razor

No Connie, nothing "Holy" about them! They are spawns of their devils and their demons and things that crawl and slither in the night, the undead!

0zyxcba1

@ Pierre

In addition to magic-mushroom altered states, the Saul-to-Paul out of a bolt of pure light phenomenon sounds exactly like one of the symptoms frontal lobe epilepsy can induce, precipitated by a seizure.

0z

0zyxcba1

@ misterwong

One of the most astute and succinct comments I've read about a documentary which for so many reasons is very difficult to assess.

Kudos!

0z

Guest

LOL Achems

Guest

...very difficult to ASSES, Oz?! There's some truth to that, alright, but sometimes I think you type too quickly, lol.

Guest

You might also have that sense of a "presence" in that situation.

Guest

Asses or access.

0zyxcba1

@lakhotason"Asses or access."

@Pysmythe...very difficult to ASSES, Oz?!

I don't know what either of you are talking about!

ROTFL

0z

Guest

Works either way, right?

0zyxcba1

@ Pysmythe

Stop it. Stop it this instant. So you saw the man behind the curtain. You don't have to gloat.

Shame on you!

(lol)

0z

Guest

The gloating is an aftereffect in this case! I proclaim my innocence retroactively...

0zyxcba1

@ Pysmythe

If ya wanna play hardball? May I remind you that, till today, you
didn't even know of His Pastity, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, and I'll betchya three dollar bill you haven't even been touched by His Noodly Appendage, yet.

Huh! You're prob'ly already falling for that Fettuccinian hearsay, you apostate, you! They're always on the lookout to recruit fresh
meatballs like you.

So, watch out, baby! I got FSM on my side!

0z
_____________________
P.S.: Did you know that the Church of Flying Spaghetti Monster is actually registered with the Federal government as a legit religion(no, really!).

Guest

Let me suck down some French Vanilla and consider this for a while...

So! Shall I unleash, then, the Dong of Doom, sacred scepter of the Agnolottians, whose wielder is granted all manner of power in the righteous destruction of diatribes and blasphemies, forthright and concealed, malodorous and charming, boiled, or merely simmered, in the defense of our noodly faith, across all menus and gastronomies, all eons and geographies, verbally speaking, that is? For, lo! though the Dong is mighty, indeed, swelling in his holy rage to fill the crevices in the spirits of his disciples much like a good al dente, lightly salted, he is at bottom a Dong of peace; ESPECIALLY at bottom is he a dong of piece...and it is not his wish that any should come to feel his wrath in any way, but that they should mostly just come. Therefore, I say unto thee, that I shall lay the holy Dong aside, since you've caught me at a bad time, and say without strain, with a cool water now tempering the noodles under my priestly cap, that it is thou fagottinians who art forked in thy crocks of pastaology, thy cheese-laden metapastical philosophies reeking in the nostrils of the truly saved like an old wheel of limburger. What say you, to the charge thy 'balls are breaded, and mine are not? What say you, to the charge thy plates art profanely decorated with all manner of pastels, fairies and butterflies, when a solid color, with a Chevy logo in the midst of't, is to be thine only proper dinnerware? Is it not clear to thee whom the FSM hath truly blessed? Please! Spare me! Fit, thou art, only to be twisted upon the forks of thine own iniquities, and swallowed up into the everlasting digestion, where the 'burn dieth not, nor is ever shat...

[ (Lol.) Hope that amused you a little bit. It only took me about 2 hrs to come up with this junk...And now you'll come up with something completely brilliant in about 15 min., right?.. ]

0zyxcba1

@ Pysmythe

THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FANTABULOUS!

I have urinated all over myself laughing.

No fair. No fair!

You've left me wet an defenseless with nothing with which to counterassault.

I lie squashed and dying.

You are a heartless beast.

ROTFLMFAO

0z

____________________________
P.S.:"And now you'll come up with something completely brilliant in about 15 min., right?..."

No. I lie broken and defeated; and, anyhow, I'm going to bed
(and will sleep all day ? and it's all your fault).

Meaghen :P

Didn't make it through the into. I could understand if this were claiming to be pure theology, but it's not. It's claiming to be history. Which it is not. The history of the Bible is only barely about Catholic vs. Protestant. Moreover there are a LOT of Christians in this world who are not Catholic or Protestant.... who have their own bibles. Then you the bajillion forms and sects of Christianity that were around before the Council of Nicea popped up to regulate everyone.

I hate when folks want to discuss or teach theology from a religious or personal perspective, but swear up and down they are serious scholars who are purely looking at academic evidence. There's nothing wrong with having your beliefs or theology or dogma.... just quit trying to pretend it's fact. IT doesn't MATTER if it's factually true or not. Truth /= fact. Fact/= opinion.

mark1667

Its denouncing one dogma to follow another. This doc is not based on facts but questionable evidence and people seem to be willing to believe in anything if it implies uncovering or demystifying a secret society.

If anyone wants to know the truth, they would listen to the documentary, question the claims made by this documentary, and then do their own research. Wouldn't it lazy for anyone not too?

His Forever

I liked it too. I want to watch it again in fact, but 3 hours!

His Forever

I don't think dung beetles have an immortal soul, nor can they make moreal judgments of right or wrong--in a nutshell.

Guest

It's a fact! As mentioned by "0zyxcba1" MacKayMouze.
I don't know where MacKayMouse fetched that one.

Too bad I do not recall that documentary where they talked about the use of "Weird" mushrooms inducing spiritual closeness with "Higher" wisdom...
I don't think I D/L'ed it from the usenets, I may have seen it while browsing another doc website last week as I was searching docs about George Carlin comic.
Finally, that Carlin is no comic at all, is a realist...

Anyhow, mushrooms, marjuana & hashish are known to mankind way before any "Structured" religion came to be.

In the case of LSD & preachers, humankind had to wait some 2,000 years longer.

There may be, must be a God but close to all religions made such a mess that it became useless to try to figure anything out!

Guest

Oh! You like mushrooms thingny?
Well then, become a priest & try hashish!

Guest

Oh! Nope, not at all! I never ever mentioned "Magic" mushrooms! Magic mushroom is the official name of a specific specie on the american continent that tiggers very different cephalous problems for homosapiens.

For instance, 2 huge mouse ears grow out of the cephalous appendice (Othewise known as "Zit") that grows on the shoulders of the subjected individual.
Very different case that needs to be watered, or better yet, hosed out.

HiHiHi!

Guest

I'm serious. I really like mushrooms and I don't mean the ones sold at Safeway. I would prefer the Isle of Patmos variety.

http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

Awful lot of input for not having made it past the intro.

http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

Glad to see that you guys were again able to find something tasty to re-kindle your hatred of all things religious. Keep up the good work!

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_LBUMLQSWS2VL7QGHAHWHWAS2Q4 cj

Religion should be classified as a mental illness and medicated appropriately

StillRV

Thats what I'm sayin Achems. Your intellectual arguments are usually far better. You are right picking fact from fiction is tough and can lead down silly roads indeed. Oz whatever man.

http://www.facebook.com/Fitzlight63 Dean Fitzpatrick

The true children of God and servants of Jesus will soon no longer be called christians as that title has become accursed. They will simple prefer to be called the Children of God, Servants of Jesus the Christ.

Achems_Razor

And how do you know that the title has become accursed, and by whom? and how do you know what they will be called? Did a thunderbolt come from above and make you the religious gatekeeper? I will still call the religee's loony tunes. Per your example.

I agree with @cj: religion is classed as a mental illness, a virus of the mind. Just ask Richard Dawkins.

perfectarc

no matter the sect, religion is irrational thought suppressing rubish

His Forever

Wow! We actually agree on something! I can't wait either!

wald0

There seems to be a lot of confusion about whether this is pro or anti Cristian, history or propaganda. After watching the first hour and a half or so I would say it is pro protestant Christianity and anti Catholicism. It has some good history in it, and some I am not so sure about, and some that may be mistaken or mistranslated sort of, and some that is flat wrong. Is it propaganda, well yeah of course it is. It was clearly made by someone that supports protestant Christianity so it is slanted toward that goal, as well as criticizing Catholicism. It also spends a great deal of time talking about how the bible itself was translated incorrectly by Catholics and Christianity corrupted by Rome, Constantine to be specific. As far as I know this part is true, I remember it from my theology classes as well as western civics. But we also found mistranslations in all the other versions of the Bible written in English when comparing the old testament to the Torah left in Hebrew and Aramaic, not one was actually correct according to several professors I spoke with about it. I don't read Hebrew or Aramaic so I have to take their word for it. Any way, if you enjoy religious history and can stand to wade through some pretty deep b.s. to get to it, roll up your britches legs and come on in- the waters fine boys, fine. Why who knows you might have some Lutheran in there trying to get out right now. If so I recommend turpentine, kerosene, or coal oil that stuff will kill anything.

His Forever

I'm proud to be called a "Christian" still! It means Christ-like, so speak for yourself!

wald0

Alrighty then, do you normally burst into spontaneous prophecy? Or is this something you guys decided at one of the weekly meetings? Its going to cost a fortune to replace all those bowling uniforms, you know that right? See you guys should have done like the Pastafarians and waited for the new to wear off before locking into a merchandising plan. What on earth are you going to do with all those tee shirts and bumper stickers now?

Guest

Wonder what would have caused that name to be cursed?

Guest

Never have I seen a Christ-like christian.

wald0

@ Pysmythe

Dude, that is about the funniest sh1t I have ever heard. I mean for real, I laughed till I cried and I feel like total crud this morning. That was brilliant, well done man.

Guest

wald0 - Most of that which we call history is propaganda and it would be a futile and pointless task to separate the two.

Regardless of intention the films producers have inadvertently created a masterpiece of parody on what it means to be Christ-like (to borrow a phrase).

The irony seems to be lost on those professing Christ-like behavior.

http://profiles.google.com/juraj.filkorn Juraj Filkorn

we are all children of god, you are sooo arogatn

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_5W3UGU5GQHDJ3XG5OLOWNLPJZM Tangata Whenua

Re: this being a 'documentary'... I find it laden with 'agenda', therefore unwatchable!

SaintNarcissus

not sure I'll make it through this one, but fyi for those commenting on the "angle" or the leaning of the doc, it is done by the guy who did extensive illuminati and freemasonry conspiracy docs which seem to have a right wing christian conspiracy theory tinge to them. So, as far as considering the source...

Achems_Razor

@C_and_N:

Charles, you said..."I truly think its a prophetic utterance out of the mouth of babes!"...I say it is brain washing your children at an early age. Shame on you!

AllSeeingOwl

I believe all spiritual paths hold the basis of truth. However, this "documentary" is pure fantasy. It is not even in fact a documentary - it is a "His"-Story with very little historical fact (I don't accept internal apologetics as fact) and is more in-line with docu-dramas. I guess if you consider "Little House on the Prairie" or "America's Most Wanted" as docs, than this deserves a place.

There is much better Christian-oriented historical documentaries available - even on this sight. Those of you who support this, please open your minds and stop believing the dogma an unqualified bloodsucker sells you on your day of rest....

This is a modern version of what people think the Bible and Christianity are all about. From what I have learned it is incorrect. Christianity is simply the MOST recent adaptation of a series of similar stories that have been retold no less than 12 times. Meaning that there was no Jesus who died on a cross 2,000 years ago.

A much better documentary that explains the Bible and religions around the world back to the time of the ancient Egyptians is "The Naked Truth" that can also be found on this site.

I mean no disrespect to Christians (of which I am one) or any other religious faith but the story of the Bible has been distorted over the past 2,000 years to evolve into something completely different from its original intent as Astrotheology and the study of the stars in the heavens.

Jesus = Son of God = Sun God = Sun

Cross of Christianity = Zodiac Cross = Spring Summer Fall Winter.

Jesus dying on the cross = Sun's lowest point on the Zodiac for three days. The winter solstice which occurs around December 22 each year.

The crown of thorns of Jesus's head (modern times) = the rays of the sun.

Jesus never existed before modern times. A circle representing the sun was in the middle of Zodiac cross. Over time the circle representing the sun, was replaced by a man representing the son of god. A play on words where Sun God becomes Son of God. And from here the symbolism of Christianity emerged.

Jesus born of the Virgin Mary.

Jesus = Sun

Virgin Mary goes back to ancient Egyptian times.

Virgo is one of the 12 sections of the sky.

Mary is the Egyptian goddess of wisdom.

Jesus born of the Virgin Mary. = The sun rising in the constellation of Virgo born of the Goddess of wisdom = Mary.

Jesus has 12 apostles. = Sun / sky has 12 zodiac symbols.

All of the stories in the modern day bible originate back to ancient Egypt. These original stories are Astrotheological stories and past historical human events.

Christianity worships the Sun God = Sun = Jesus.

Christians worship on Sunday because that is the ancient Egyptian day to worship the sun.

Jewish people worship on Saturday because the ancient Egyptian day to worship Saturn is Saturday.

The Jewish people never killed Jesus, for the simple fact that Jesus = Sun.

English - French - Planet to Worship

Monday = Lundi = Moon Day

Tuesday = Mardi = Mars Day

Wednesday = Mercredi = Mercury Day

Thursday = Jeudi = Jupiter Day

Friday = Vendredi = Venus Day

Saturday = Samdi = Saturn Day

Sunday = Dimanche = Sun Day

The seven days of the week for worshipping the planets as started by the ancient Egyptians.

Christianity became the dominant religion of the Earth because people quickly realized that without the light of the sun life died. Therefore the only god that really mattered was the "Sun God".

The "Sun God" is not really relevant in modern times because we have not had an asteroid strike or major volcanic eruption since 1348.

All major human catastrophes on Earth are proceeded by an asteroid / comet strike or a major volcanic eruption that results in the sun's rays being blocked out. This causes crop failure and starvation.

In dire times the "Sun God" then becomes the MOST important god to pray too. And this is why Christianity exists having evolved from ancient Egyptian roots.

Modern Christianity may have a man dying on the cross as a symbol but it simply is not true. Jesus = Sun and the cross is the Zodiac cross of astrology. To be accurate as all Medieval churches are the symbol of Christianity is a round circle on a cross. The round circle = sun and the cross = the zodiac cross of astrology. In many cases there are 12 sectors around the cross representing the 12 zodiac symbols of the heavens as partitioned by the ancient Egyptians.

skeptaman

i agree this is pro protestant- hardly objective at all, but interesting viewing though! should not really be in the docu files methinks

Guest

It is telling that you never spoke once of what Christ taught, not that it would have any importance.

Guest

If I get religion does that mean I can be medicated too?

I'm on my way to church.

Guest

Really, do you think hatred is the best way to deal with this.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_7NZ2QBWUQBBOWVRCZORZSV2TEM alans

Where did you get all of this information?

TheSatyaYuga

looks like someone has been watching Zeitgeist...

http://www.facebook.com/tasfastas José Pedro Gomes

That's because they stop believing in religion. They are often called humanitarian as also as they are considered heretics by most common religions, they skilled the exercise of questioning, so much, that they'd become troublesome for religion's congruence. Wasn't that the reason for Jesus crucification? Paradoxical, aye?

0zyxcba1

@ SaintNarcissus

Lots of blind faith and faith in this one. See if you can distinguish between the two. I know you can do it if you try!

0z

P.S.:
Not much 'trust', though. :-(

Achems_Razor

The same info can be found in the Zeitgeist docs, but won't argue with Art on this one, makes more sense than the religee's religions! And then throw some magic mushrooms (Amanita Muscaria) into the picture, might have a happening there!

0zyxcba1

@ Pierre

Sam Harris once said that if ever there were invented or discovered a substance with absolutely zero deleterious effects(even healthy!) that bypassed all conceivable need or desire for religions, whatsoever('organized'/'stuctured', or not), then a constitutional amendment forbidding its synthesis/harvesting, use, sale or transport, would be instantly introduced and passed by all state legislatures within 24-hours!

(I paraphrase ? oh, alright, and exaggerate a little, too ? but only a little! :-)

0z

P.S.: and stop making fun of my avatar! (lol)

Guest

I am an angel hair (pasta) convert. I made the choice when i turned gray.
az

Guest

Is the pope aloud to masturbate? That's my stupid question and I haven't watched the doc yet.
az

http://www.facebook.com/tasfastas José Pedro Gomes

They are also unemployed.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QDA3K4DWXKNSVY4MH244KHM6H4 The Buachaill

I wasn't really watching it with great attention, but after starting out as a reasonably interesting historical reflection of Christianity for the first hour, somewhere in the second hour it had rather deceivingly evolved into a brazenly biased thesis on the justification of Protestantism as the true religion over Catholicism.
It would have made for an interesting story, except the bias was so obvious it made the whole thing a bit distasteful.
It was here while I was trying to figure out what I missed, when up pops Ian Paisely! Not exactly a man known for an open, unbiased opinion on Religion.

Nuf said

His Forever

Nearly every doc has an "agenda". I personally can't stand evolution docs that are billed as "nature" documentaries. I love your eye-con by the way! Classy.

His Forever

No one has an "unbiased" opinion on religion. I found the information very enlightening as I didn't realize how much persecution the first English Bible translators had to face.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_QDA3K4DWXKNSVY4MH244KHM6H4 The Buachaill

It's the documentary I'm accusing of being biased, by focusing solely on the opinions of those with a bias towards towards Protestantism.
Try to keep up ;)

SaintNarcissus

You'l hear no argument from me that organized Christian history is full of the horrific consequences of blind faith. However, I'll add that I don't think you can intellectually separate this fact from the horrific consequences of applying this blind faith to systems which have nothing to do with God or religion at all - back to Mao, Stalin, et al. I think perhaps you and I might agree that they are both results of the same spiritual illness. I am truly a man of little faith. My belief is built on my experience and experience of those I trust and know well. It is through this that I can claim the "faith" defined as a confidence, or what you prefer to call trust. Sorry I'm not up to your challenge because I don't feel like suffering through this doc!

0zyxcba1

@ SaintNarcissus"It is through this that I can claim the 'faith' defined as a confidence, or what you prefer to call trust."

I thought we agreed upon three distinct terms:
faith = 'confidence', etc.
blind faith = belief without evidence
trust =... This we did not define.

My understanding of 'trust' is belief based upon proven past confirmations of the validity of a third party's assessment capabilities. Trust can end in a pico-second, given the correct circumstances, whereas faith('confidence') would be much less 'unenduring'.

Example:
Christopher Hitchens is a journalist/showman. Hitchens is not a man of science. He is utterly faithless(none of any kind of faith, just like me!). Yes. He places his 'trust' in the oncologists now attempting to prolong his life. Hitchens has no direct way of knowing anything whatsoever about where or how they get/got their knowledge. However, there is a 'common knowledge', which he has accepted, that these specialists know more than anyone else does about these maters. If Hitchens' condition worsened the instant they started to 'work on him', his 'trust' in their ability to help might well disintegrate overnight.

You place 'trust' in your dentist that (s)he can 'fix' your teeth. If your teeth start to fall out as a result of their 'work', instantly you have your medical records sent to another dentist. Instantly. 'Trust' goes faster than it came, and you might even mount a lawsuit.

That is how I would describe(not define) 'trust'.

For a definition, one would, needs be, ponder what exactly builds 'trust'; why can we 'trust' in strangers, like firemen; chefs; school teachers; politicians(lol)!

See. We don't trust politicians!

'Trust', however one defines it, must incorporate a build-up of 'it' based upon experience, and/or broad cultural consensus based upon that which is measurable.

When one seeks advice from this 'trusted' uncle, rather that, it is because 'this' uncle has proven himself to be more reliable in his advice(past advice worked!) than 'that' uncle(less often proved correct, or not at all).

So, you tell me how you wish to define 'trust'.

Requirements:
trust ? blind faith
trust ? faith

0z

P.S.:
There is absolutely not one shred of evidence that communism works. Therefore, a communist is a man of faith!

0zyxcba1

@ SaintNarcissus"I am truly a man of little faith."

By the time you are finished with me,
you'll be "truly a man of [no] faith!"
And you will LOVE it. (lol)

0z

P.S.:
The Truth shall set you free! (lol)

0zyxcba1

@ SaintNarcissus

In the doc, Richard Dawkins: The Greatest Show on Earth
(which isn't very good, imho), Dawkins is asked at the finish with
whom from the past(apart from Darwin) he would like to speak,
if he could. Dawkins said he would like to have a talk with Jesus!

0z

Guest

az - If I were Pope I would - but not aloud.

Guest

Communism worked very well for the American Indian.

Sherman Pegues

The Wisdom contained in the Bible can not be explained by an elaborate analogy of symbolism based on the authenticity of various similar truths and coincidences. The Power of the Word of GOD is evident in this movie, and the wickedness of satan is also evident in the various plots to change, alter and obliterate the Word of GOD.. Sometimes you have to stop logically trying to intellectualize with theories mixed with some truth, and take a Philosophical view at the phenomenal, unadulterated Word of GOD...

1John 4:3 (KJV) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

1Corinthians 2:14 4 (KJV) But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

You cannot be a follower of Christ and not believe he ever existed! You have no credibility with what you have to say after making the statement that you are a Christian!

How Ironic is it that the very book that this story is based on is being used to correct a person who has shown themselves to not have much knowledge wisdom or understanding of the Bible in the first place..

Romans 3:4 (KJV) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

May GOD Bless You and have mercy on your Soul..

Achems_Razor

There you go, always the same thing, because the bible told me so, so it has to be true. Reading words in a book makes it so, but how can it be real and true? because that is what it says in the bible, but how can we know the words in the bible are true? because that is what it says in the bible. Around and around and around it goes.

That is why the religions and the religee's are so utterly boring, boring, to self distraction. Never nothing new!! Did I say boring?

http://tinyurl.com/3kurlm2 Intbel

Hardly a history of the Bible. No informtion at all about who may have written the original texts from which the various bibles have been translated.

There have always been many competeting factions in Christianity, and this seems to be no more than another propaganda by one faction decrying another.

I have no problem with the attack on Roman Catholicism and being fair, I would have no problem with a similar attack upon the faith of the promoters of this documentary.

Both factions have some truth and in both cases, the few spiritual truths they have in common are buried and hidden beneath a plethora of doctrines which contain no spiritual truths whatsoever.

Indeed, both contain downright lies, same lies, expressed in different ways, such as the requirement of a saviour or an intermediary between a human being and 'God', the only difference being that they define different men as being the necessary intermediary - Jesus, a pope or some priest.

An aside re Tony Blair - upon resigning his premiérship, he converted to Roman Catholicism and then began his "World Faith-based Initiative" after which around two hundred (2008 figure) faith-based schools, using the Bible as the basis for all history and geography, have been created.

The E.U., of which Blair is a devotee, is famous for its Catholic imagery and symbolism.

All in all, hardly a useful documentary, contains no new information, leaves out much known information and serves no purpose other than to put down the opposition.

http://www.facebook.com/louis.starwind Louis Starwind

FILOSOFEM
"The world is in chaos. Honorable dealing is
deteriorating, good friends are few, truth is
held in disrepute, good service is underpaid,
poor service is overpaid. Whole nations are
committed to evil dealings: With one you fear
insecurity, with another, inconsistency, with
a third, betrayal. This being what it is, let the
bad faith of others serve not as an example,
but as warning. The real danger of the situation
lies in the unhinging of your own integrity:
accepting less than your best, being overly
tolerant of stupidity, forgiving incompetence,
fraternizing with the nonspiritual. The man of
principle never forgets what he is, because
he clearly sees what the others are."

To All of You: Speak prudently: cautiously to your rivals, and
with dignity to everyone else. there is always time
to utter a word, and never time to take it back...

Balthazar Gracian
General Jesuit Priest 15th Century.

0zyxcba1

@ lakhotason"Communism worked very well for the American Indian."

I do hear where you are coming from.
However, hunter-gatherer societies(according to Marxist-
Leninist theory) are wholly distinct from that which is meant
by Communism in modern times(see #1, and #6, below).

Marxist-Leninist distinct stages of economic development:

1. Primitive Communism as in co-operative tribal societies:
I think this is what you may be referring to. Generally, when
one speaks of Communism today, one means #6(directly
preceded by #5) transitioning to #6. (Note: Corporatism,
as distinct from Capitalism, is missing!)

2. Slave Society:
a development of tribal progression to city-state; Aristocracy
is born.

4. Capitalism:
capitalists are the ruling class, who create and employ the proletariat.

5. Socialism:(not to be confused with modern European Democratic-Socialism) workers gain class consciousness, and via proletarian revolution depose the capitalist dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, replacing it in turn with dictatorship of the proletariat through which the socialization of the means of production can be realized.

6. Communism:
a classless and stateless society.

Communism is the belief(faith!) that #4 must result in #5
(via revolution) and that #5(functioning exactly as described) must, in turn, inexorably transitions into #6.

Apart from #1 and #6, all of the stages involve dictatorships
of one form or another(#5 being under the 'dictatorship of
the proletariat'). None are democratic, including #1 and #6
(as neither #1, nor #6, involve either classes or states).

0z
Source: Wikipedia (Marxism)

Guest

Ozy - Let me think about this, though I will point out that the
Indian succeeded admirably where Marx/Lenin failed beyond all expectation. Primitive indeed.

Guest

I don't agree with Wikipedia. I will accept the definition provided in the first sentence of the article only if I can
strike the phrase "a sociopolitical movement that aims for".
After all, we should only consider what communism is, not what it aims to be.

As an aside, I have no great respect for Wikipedia. It has this inexplicable jargon peppered (heavily) throughout. In this case by throwing this crap in, much as one might throw a cat I might add, it changed the the defined from communism to communist movement.

Guest

Ozy - I have sent you another post but I used an expressly forbidden word. I was ready to compound the error with a smart-ass remark . Instead I read the rules. Good thing.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_VA63NXEEWHPDZ7QY6V3BXUZLE4 Namra

Just a propaganda piece.

0zyxcba1

@ lakhotason"...I was ready to compound the error with a smart-ass remark...""...the Indian succeeded admirably where Marx/Lenin failed..."

That's okay. I deserve a smart-ass remark now and then. Doesn't matter why, when, or from whom. I deserve it. Makes up for all the ones I don't get! (lol)

As far as Indians vs. Marx/Lenin, I couldn't agree with you more. And if things keep on careening towards the abyss, as they are now, we'll be needing some of those Indian skills just to survive! (not lol)

0z

P.S.:
You got smack dab in the middle of a very, very long, ongoing, exchange between SaintNarcissus and myself from another site. Keep your nose out of the poo! (lol)

P.P.S.: "Primitive indeed."
'Primitive' was cut-and-pasted directly from Wikipedia(I am innocent); and, anyhow, the European scholarly use of the word
is not pejorative, at all. Just saying.

P.P.P.S.:
You have taken minor exception to any number of past postings.
HOW DARE YOU!
(lol)

Guest

No. Not to you. To the moderator.

0zyxcba1

@lakhotason, you mean you called out Vlatko?! That's grounds for excommunication. Aren't ascared? I sure as hell would be!

May God shield you from his wrath.

0z

0zyxcba1

@ Sherman Pegues

Maybe you should take the gospel's advice:

Luke 9:5
"And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them."

0z

Guest

No no. I almost compounded the error but I read the rules before I did. I wasn't aware I had used a red-letter word and had thought I was being moderated for some other reason than my own stupidity.

Always read the rules first.

Kukx64

I have sat i watched this documentary and finished it at once. At one time tears filled my eyes when i recreated the whole picture of what those who were trying to translate the Bible went through...the immesurable torture,being burnt alive, and untold persecution.I know they were received happily in heaven. But on the hand, it is a pity for those who are followers of the Papacy,the Roman Catholic Church..I pray God opens their eyes. Even before i watched this documentary, i knew and have always known that the doctrine of the R.C .C is wrong and deceptive. I donot contrast from the view that,indeed the Papacy is the Anti-Christ spoken of in the Bible.

0zyxcba1

@ Memento Mori"Any Religion divided against itself is not a Religion at all."

False!

"Religion divided against itself" is religion's foremost defining feature. And, so, as they all are divided against themselves, they're, each and every, damned to the wasteland of 'dead religions' ? and these dead are legion.

Tis this comfort which upon pillow pleasing, oh so sweetly pleasing pillow, that dreams do visit upon me, at dusk's gentle fall.

0z

newfire1

I note that the so-called reverential language of the King James Version is used throughout this film. This suggests the films sponsors/directors/writers have an "evangelical right wing" posture which colors their understanding of bible development. I note from the beginning the absence of factual historical evidence, e.g. the suggestion that the gospels were compiled before the letters of Paul. Sad! If you want an accurate story, don't watch this film!

http://www.facebook.com/ElmoPutz David Foster

"...contains no new information, leaves out much known information and serves no purpose other than to put down the opposition."

Pretty much describes ALL documentaries nowadays.

Jaxxed Not

The commentary here is better than the documentary.

As mentioned above, the documentary starts off good, with credible sources, and then devolves to biased story using a few select sources and unheard of authors.
This documentary also misses the decisions made about what content is included in the bible.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_JIXBP7MFEML5XX2RV6GNHQ5GVI gregoreo

As painful as it's been, I've actually read through most of the comments pertaining to this movie. Many of you atheist folks are intellectually lazy, as are many of your Christian counterparts. We all watch pieces of media and film, etc. with pre-conceived notions, and to profess some kind of objectiveness based on your atheist ideals (which come from the limited ideas you've been exposed to during your lives, respectively) is as ludicrous as a Christian saying the Bible is an accurate, trustworthy account because the Bible says it is. Atheists are unwilling to take my life's experience as testimony to what I have found to be true, so how can they expect me to value theirs as the same?

Above is just one example of a general public's ignorance about the Bible itself, and the cultural context in which it was written. What happens here is, people who don't believe the Bible hear from someone else who doesn't believe in the Bible that there are inaccuracies, contradictions, etc. contained in the Bible, or that Christianity was somehow derived from pagan myths. Believing that person to be a wise skeptic like himself, the hearer of this misinformation easily accepts the assertion based upon unsubstantiated hearsay, and because it easily fits into his worldview.

re: "Was Joseph a carpenter?" No. He was essentially a handyman, or general laborer, if you look at the original text. Very little is mentioned about this, I suppose, because His day job was very forgettable, and unimportant to His followers. He was not a carpenter in the way we think of carpenters: people who build things out of wood. Jesus almost certainly would have followed in his father's line of business, given the location and age in which he lived. His ministry only lasted a few years, at the tail end of his life; He wasn't sitting around for nearly 30 years before that time...He was living among his neighbors, etc.

I'm really not sure why many who frequent these forums bother posting at all, since their comments are either lemming-like, Dawkins-jock-sniffing leftovers, or way too short or misspelled to be taken seriously.

Eniki520

to bad the bible was written by men and there fore is NOT as you say the "unadulterated Word of GOD..." it IS the adulterated words of men.

Eniki520

you forgot the magic mushroom theories-
Jesus is portrayed as the Son of God, sent to fulfil the role of Messiah or 'Anointed One' - literally, 'one smeared with semen'. As a mushroom, the amanita muscaria does not disseminate seeds as plants do, but ejaculates microscopic spores which create a threadlike fungal network at the base of conifer trees from which thunderstorms elicit more mushrooms. Prior to knowledge of spores, lightning was thought to be the source of mushrooms and lightning was considered the fiery progenitive spears of God, hence the phallic fungi were called 'Sons of God'.

The mushroom's spore ejaculate leaves an oily film on the blood-red cap spotted with white thorns, hence the term 'Messiah' ('Anointed One') and allusions to thistle-entwined, bloody-browed sacrifices, such as the miraculous 'Ram' of Abraham (Genesis 22:13) and Jesus the thorn-crowned 'Lamb of God'.

Guest

You're right, who would know? Unless he died of pleasure!
az

Guest

If touching one's private part is forbidden for a Pope, you think he shakes his own after he pees? lol
You want some stupid questions...i have a few more in mind.
az

Guest

The injection of mushroms is not a "Theory" but a fact.
It is documented not only by the holy christian scriptures but also corroborated by other non holy sciptures dating to these eras.
A fact that dated long B-4 most structured religions.
So, much before the Romans.
It was a mean for human being to understand what their life was a bout. A tool and method to get brain reving up.

No one knows for sure what was the whole territory that specific type of muchroom occupied.

Some had to resort to what they had at hand but sure found good use of some hashish formulas.

Try some, it'll get your brains reving...
Buzzing!

Pierre.

Jack1952

@ Art Vinette.

Glad you cleared all that up. I was having doubts concerning the veracity of the Bible. After reading this post I can understand why. To have it explained in such a scientific and historical context is truly quite refreshing.

Please excuse the sarcasm but this has to be the wildest ride into never never land I have heard in a while.

Achems_Razor

Well, I don't know about that, makes more sense than the talking snake thingy, the burning bush, parting of the red sea, walking on water, Making woman from a rib, Noah's Ark, arising from the dead, probably missed a lot, but you get my drift, and oh-yeah, making the universe in 6 days!

Jack1952

@ Achems_Razor

He's borrowed from all over. He did say that he was a Christian, though. Apparently, he isn't too sure which voodoo he should like so he pieces different ones together to make his own patchwork religion.

One thing is for sure. Art Vinette is no Christian. The entire Bible revolves around the story of Jesus...from the promises of a Messiah in the Old Testament to the fulfillment of those promises in the New Testament. This is the basic core of Christian faith. You can't call yourself a Christian and then deny the most sacred part of their beliefs. Its like saying that he believes in democracy but doesn't think people should have the right to vote.

Meaghen :P

Merely because theology is a personal interest of mine. I'm more interested in academic resources, is all. This is fine for someone seeking faith and spirituality from this perspective, but it's not a good resource for, say, a research paper on religious history or the history of the Bible. I'm just not looking for answers from this kind of perspective about my own personal spirituality. I can consider it, but it's not for me, and it's not helpful with my pet study projects.

Meaghen :P

That's not any more open-minded or wise than the folks who think everyone who doesn't believe the same as they do are going to Hell. What other people think or believe isn't anyone else's business unless that person chooses to make it such.

Dude, get your facts straight. I trusted what you said until I came to the Sunday worship. Which is wrong, original Christians still worshiped on Saturday, along with all other worshipers of YHWY, until the pope of the Catholic church change the day. That is why there is an entire church devoted to prayer on Saturday, the Seventh day Adventists. Astrology did not originate in Egypt, but in either the middle east or eastern Asia.

Most of the stories were "borrowed" from Sumeria, Egypt had very few of them in common, but, understanding the bible, if there weren't similar stories from around the world, then it would have to be wrong.

But there is, though very little, more evidence that Jesus was a physical being than that he wasn't. There were Christians, people that called themselves that, in century 0, according the the Roman Emperor Nero, meaning that the apostles themselves would have been alive, and thus, considering the level of persecution Nero alone put them through, they would likely not have followed something that they had no proof of then, so close to the event. Few religions have come out of that kind of persecution. I can think only of Christianity, Judaism and perhaps Islam, though I am shaky on the latter's history. Then there is the questionable writings of Josephus, which is still debated on if the ending was add or not.

This is really anti-catholic. And that is coming from a Christian that has no love for Catholics myself.

LWKT

You must have spoken to Richard Dawkins in person hey Achems_Razor? If you read his stuff and believed it because he, Richard Dawkins, wrote it, you're just as ignorant and stupid as those bible believing people who read the bible and believe it just because the bible said it.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_FHU5DBVVTMNRHXZMFWWJBG3LKY NickH

It's kind of hard to call yourself a Christian and not have love for Catholics, or anyone for that matter. We should be known by our love.

e_pluribus_unum_USA_Motto

Not a word of the New testament was written by someone that knew the man names Jesus - Not a single WORD. Go research it. Most of the authors of the Jewish testament (OT) are unknown. All of it is a crock. Just read it - it is full of rape - cruelty - slavery and death. Far more humans ( by the hundreds of millions) have died because of the persecution by the faithful; than believers have ever been killed by others.
The Self Proclaimed Apostle Paul never knew, saw, or heard Jesus and he wrote the majority of the Christian Testements (NT), This vile book known as the bible has no authority. The Creators only written work is in the creation, no man made book. To deny nature, and the proven evidence of the creators works is to spit in the face of GOD.

0zyxcba1

@ e_pluribus_unum_USA_Motto"This vile book known as the bible has no authority."

People will resist the taking up of responsibility for their own decisions, mistakes and triumphs to the point of abandon to a dump truck load of scrolls written by camel herders so long ago nobody even really knows what they are or what they once may have meant.

0z

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_ZTAGPF2OZWGT56CYAYDRHP54CI HappyHop

Ian Paisley uses the Reformation to sprout bigotry against the local Catholics. He also encouraged paramiltaries to take action against Catholics.

As for the Cathars, they were indeed herectics- they denied the trinity and believed that there were 2 gods: the good god of the New Testament and the bad god who was the devil.They believed that the good god had no power over earth because it was ruled by the bad god, so they frowned upon marriage and intercourse.They also believed in re-incarnation.They had an idea that if they were given a kind of blessing by one of their ministers (Perfects) they must starve themselves to death and only then would they get to return to heaven and to the good god.

numberone1

sorry, but I dont believe you are a follower of Christ

http://www.facebook.com/william.schauer William Christopher Schauer

Just can't get the fact that the guy sounds like the professor from the library episode from avatar.

Why is it so many christians are unaware that catholics are christians too?

http://www.facebook.com/louis.starwind Louis Starwind

FILOSOFEM:

An Unbalanced Act of Structure in Chaos.
Reborn from the Ashes of its former self.

http://www.facebook.com/louis.starwind Louis Starwind

FILOSOFEM:
“The recipe for perpetual ignorance is: Be satisfied with your opinions and content with your knowledge.”
From: Julius Caesar
Why, man, he doth bestride the narrow world
Like a Colossus; and we petty men
Walk under his huge legs, and peep about
To find ourselves dishonorable graves.
Men at some time are masters of their fates:
THE FAULT, DEAR BRUTUS, IS NOT IN OUR STARS,
BUT IN OURSELVES, THAT WE ARE UNDERLINGS. (1.2.135

bggleep

I believe that Matthew, Mark, John, Peter, and James all knew the man called Jesus. I can see that I will not convince you of the truth of the Bible. I am unable to measure how many Christians have been killed by non-believers in other countries to this day.
I do agree that too many people have persecuted and killed by people claiming to be Christian. They may have called themselves Christians as they persecuted and killed Muslims, particularly during the Crusades, as they persecuted and killed native Americans throughout the 16th, 17th, 18th and especially in the 19th century, as they persecuted and killed European Jews during Hitler's reign, and as they persecuted and killed black people (Negro / Afro-Americans) from the day they were brought to this land against their will to the present day.
I can only say that the actions of all of these so-called Christians prove that they were not really Christian, and that they showed that they had no real understanding of Jesus' message. Instead of persecuting and killing, they should have been teaching Jesus' message and his story: The Gospel.

http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

I am sorry, but you are rather deluded and ignorant. Only people who don't understand the current paradigm that science has offered us fail to understand why ancient "knowledge" is no longer relevant.

Your "uplifting ideas" have nothing to do with truth or knowledge. There is science, and that is it. There IS nothing else.

"Believe" what you want. I see the world as it really is - full of ignorant humans pretending they are educated.

http://www.facebook.com/NANDGated NAND Gate

Bahahaha "believer". It is a case of historical FACT, not your "opinion". Stupid christian, I do not even give your "religion" a capital letter.

http://profiles.google.com/choscura Kendall Lladnek

The Dark Ages were the Dark Ages because of the hold of the bible, not in spite of it.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_53R3I7WGHKFCOGLWRPIYHWM4C4 Icon

Paul did encounter the Lord Jesus Christ on the way to Damascus and because of it he was called an apostle. You can't pick and choose parts of the bible and mix it with some historical event that disturbs you and discredit it without doing your homework. I mean if your going to throw out a blanket statement like that at least show some facts for your statements. The Bible holds its own weight.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_53R3I7WGHKFCOGLWRPIYHWM4C4 Icon

The roman catholics believe in salvation by Grace and works so its human and man working at salvation. The Bible teaches its by Grace through faith and this not of yourself it is the GIFT of God NOT by WORKS so no man can boast. -ephesian 2:8-9 so God the father calls you to the lord Jesus Christ, Jesus justifies you with his finished work on the cross and reconciles you to the Father, and at the same time the Holy spirit indwells you and seals you up. This is all Gods doing from begining to end and we get the benifit and he gets the Glory. I only boast in the Lord.
Salvation is free its a gift but it only comes through faith.....which he also gives you.
amen

e_pluribus_unum_USA_Motto

thanks for the dialog - Paul named himself an apostle that is a fact. he had a vision - you can not say this holds any weight - anyone can have a vision and a select few claim to have. Revelation to ONE is hearsay to ALL others. I have done my homework and I have read the bible - I know what I am talking about - have you really read each book from beginning to end. have you researched what each christian sect claims to be its authorship - have you checked what theologians say on this topic - I have. You do some homework and then lets keep talking. No reasonable person can actually read the bible and keep their faith. Read Matthew 10 for example. better yet you want me to do some leg work for you - read Thomas Paine;s Age of Reason with your bible handy. the man nails every point. He lived in 1794 and is an American hero/founder

e_pluribus_unum_USA_Motto

The people you name probably did know the man jesus - the point is they did not write the books attributed to their names. The bible has no authority. Interesting that you flip persection onto non believers. The only time in history that christians were targeted was near the fall of rome. at every other point in history it was the christians ( you name the sect) the persecuted others as you rightly point out.
you may try to name stalin or pol pot or something but they never killed others in the name of religion only religions ( all of them) kill in the name of their faith.
Bad people do bad things and good people do good things, but to make a good person do bad thinks takes religion.

adrian kelly

Way to go man. Salvation only comes through faith.....here's that old control template again. To be saved, you must have faith...blind faith... "Do what the Priesthood tells you". What a load of horse ****. This is exactly why mankind is still in bondage. This is how we've been manipulated down through the centuries.
Cast off these evil b*st*rds once and for all before they drag us all off to hell with them.
Adokay

adrian kelly

Read "The books the church suppressed" by Dr. Michael Green

Marcus_Twain

Certainly not my idea of a documentary. It is clearly anti-catholic and makes claims in regard to Jesuits and even Abraham Lincoln which I suspect have dubious factual basis.

lamed

Excellent...

The quick (Word) and the dead (religion).

Who is your Father?

Never ceases to amaze me how people
can be taken in by the fancies
of titles and garments.

ToneTone83

i hope u were staring in a mirror when you wrote that

wesker888

The Catholic Church/Papal System/Vatican State is clearly the Antichrist/Whore 0f Babylon/Beast Power mentioned in the books of Daniel and Revelation

Drunk on the Blood of The Saints and Martyrs of Christ
Thought to Change God's Holy Times and Laws
Sits on 7 Hills
Controls and empowers the kings of the earth
Does Great Blasphemy in The sight of God
Home of every unclean Bird

Research Simon Magus The Man-witch who Married Paganism with Christianity He Is the Simon Peter who's bones are in The Vatican

wesker888

Catholic Church/Papacy/Vatican is The Antichrist/Beast/Little Horn power of Revelation and Daniel

Who thought to change God's Holy Times and Laws
Who was drunk on the blood of Christs Saints and martyrs
Who wears Purple and Scarlet
Who Sits on 7 Hills & also many waters
Who's mouth speaks Great Blasphemy constantly (daily) towards God

Simon Magus is the Father and Mother of The ROMAN CATHOLIC SYSTEM
Simon Peter Never Went to Rome Jesus Commissioned Him to preach to the Jewish people

Simon Magus a Man Witch is Why The Catholic Church is Full of Every Pagan type of Worship Since Nimrod, in particular Sun Worship, Fertility worship and He married IT all to Christianity.

Simon Magus: Bones are The Bones in the Vatican Square worshiped as Simon Peter, Simon Magus Also claimed to be Christ Re-incarnated No-wonder The concept of a Vicar of Christ is still around today.....

http://profile.yahoo.com/GXOE2TH2DZX6RZIMVHOJDDQSBM Max

Are there any Roman Catholics here who can tell me the offical Roman Catholic Church's position on this documentary?

Of course this is what the documentary is saying ! who do you think paganized the truth of the jesus story ? who made sunday after the sun god) the day of worship? The council of nicea was for no other reason than to undermine the truth that chriust taught and paganize it, and then kill of evry person group sect or religion that underminde the conspiracy !! THAT IS THE POINT OF THE DOCUMENTARY!

sTv0

horse feathers. Saul of Tarsus had what are now thought of as epileptic seizures, and in one of his seizures he allegedly had a vision, which he claims was Christ (not Jesus...he doesn't mention Jesus of Nazareth *at all*). Even the Bible is unclear about whether Saul's companions saw the same vision or heard a voice or both or neither. Acts 9:7 and 22:9 contradict each other, which is so common in the Bible that it is laughable that anyone would wish to write publicly that "the Bible holds its own weight". Myths and legends, that's all the Bible is, that's all *any* religious literature is. Geez...

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000671243849 Stephen Sopko

this video so well done and beyond that has instructed,captivated and opened my eyes those words describe in a minimum the power of the information provided ,it all makes sense now who is behind the ever darkening darkness quickly descending down upon us ...the evil would be incomprehensible but for the realization of "WHOM" is actually behind this grand scheme the sinister,demonic other-dimensional being ,the "mastermind" of upcoming fulfillment of prophecy rev.9/11 you've done quite a service GOD directed my friends thank you i eagerly await more material from you

Devon Griffiths

The only problem is that Matthew, Mark, John, Peter and James - and also Luke - never wrote the testaments attributed to them. Initially these books circulated with no author attributed to them (and the earliest was written a few decades after they would have died). They circulated this way for the better part a century, until in about 180AD, Irenaeus, one of the Apostolic Fathers, proclaimed they had been written by the apostles. Henceforth, at Irenaeus' command, they carried the authors he had proclaimed.

socrates3030

Oddly enough, though you speak in scientistic patois, your vocabulary betrays thee: "the current paradigm that science has offered us" is precisely that, a paradigm. Which is to say, it is the historically contingent horizon against which our claims to truth make sense. Which is also to say that drivel like "There is science, and that is it. There IS nothing else." is meaningless triumphalism and so much more navel-gazing with which you allow yourself to dismiss eons of human thought and culture without actually, you know, having to think about them. Your dogma is showing. Your facile "philosophy" is a mummer's farce of "thought", and your self-congratulatory claim that you "see the world as it really is" betrays a mind grotesquely shackled though it thinks itself free.

Read a book, plebe.

http://www.facebook.com/verlorenModus LaShell Cherrie

only if its medical marijuana, you arrogant little creep. you do realize that "missionary atheist" should be an oxymoron. as should "atheist Crusade". whats the point in getting rid of religion if we are just going to adopt its worst abuses for ourselves? whether the tyranny is in the name of religion or science does not change the fact that it is tyranny. what people like you REALLY want is not to destroy the tyrant but replace it. which misses the point entirely. and gives the rest of us a bad name.

http://www.facebook.com/verlorenModus LaShell Cherrie

:/ religion doesnt cause divisiveness, it is merely an excuse for it. if we didnt have religions we would be fighting other reasons. just as brutally, just as senseless. it is about power, religion is just the slogan. that is what truly needs fixing.

http://www.facebook.com/verlorenModus LaShell Cherrie

humanity is in bondage because we prefer it over responsibility. we would rather follow anothers footstep than cut or own path. this is just as true of governments as it is of religions. the only difference is the colour of the blindfolds youre wearing.

http://www.facebook.com/verlorenModus LaShell Cherrie

you talk as though religious indoctrination is the only kind of indoctrination there is...

Charles Hall

I can not tell you the Roman Catholic church position on this video buy I can tell you God position:

The Jesuits (aka Society of Jesus)

The most evil society took the name of Jesus and sought to exterminate Protestants and their Bibles, the Pope commissioned a company of priests to act as a military order within the Catholic church. Their purpose was to oppose the impact of the Protestant Reformation and discover ways to destroy its influence. Throughout their history, they have been known as the most nefarious and diabolical order ever assembled. Yet few Christians in modern times are aware of their activities and how they affect the Church today.

The Jesuits have largely taken over the universities and seminaries and seek to take control of the Bible to lead everyone back to Rome. Codex Sinaiticus (with all it's corrections) and Codex Vaticanus were released and claimed to be more ancient and reliable than the texts the reformers used. Functional equivalence or paraphrases are also sprouting up, watering down the faith and the inspired words. The Vatican now influences Bible translation in Bible societies and universities around the world.

The word of God in the English language. The KING JAMES BIBLE is the final version in the line of Textus Receptus bibles which come from Antioch.

ALL other new versions can be traced back to the same Roman Catholic church which persecuted, tortured, and murdered the Christian martyrs.

God will destroy the Roman Catholic church for the very crime of shedding the blood of the martyrs and saints of Jesus Christ. This is a FUTURE event, prophesied in Revelation 17-18.

Charles Hall

I can not tell you the Roman Catholic church position but I can tell you God position:

The Jesuits (aka Society of Jesus)

The most evil society took the name of Jesus and sought to exterminate Protestants and their Bibles, the Pope commissioned a company of priests to act as a military order within the Catholic church. Their purpose was to oppose the impact of the Protestant Reformation and discover ways to destroy its influence. Throughout their history, they have been known as the most nefarious and diabolical order ever assembled. Yet few Christians in modern times are aware of their activities and how they affect the Church today.

The Jesuits have largely taken over the universities and seminaries and seek to take control of the Bible to lead everyone back to Rome. Codex Sinaiticus (with all it's corrections) and Codex Vaticanus were released and claimed to be more ancient and reliable than the texts the reformers used. Functional equivalence or paraphrases are also sprouting up, watering down the faith and the inspired words. The Vatican now influences Bible translation in Bible societies and universities around the world.

The word of God in the English language. The KING JAMES BIBLE is the final version in the line of Textus Receptus bibles which come from Antioch.

ALL other new versions can be traced back to the same Roman Catholic church which persecuted, tortured, and murdered the Christian martyrs.

God will destroy the Roman Catholic church for the very crime of shedding the blood of the martyrs and saints of Jesus Christ. This is a FUTURE event, prophesied in Revelation 17-18.

markgiambrone

youtube walter Veith total onslaught series and see all your errors vanquished right before your ears and eyes . this is the only documentary that has the truth . while all the rest are fraudulent.

Paul Leonard

The propaganda aspects of the first 24 minutes are pretty bad, the Albigensian’s are the Cathars… the guy also mentions Donatist as good guys, the Walensians are from the Middle Ages, etc. They try to make Protestants/ bible believers from heretics! I suggest skipping the first 24 minutes.
This is sad because Protestant Reformers themselves normally point to Benedict, Augustine, etc. and stress that they are simply aligning with the early church till 500 (which had Bibles in different languages). Honestly, I think the producers are some kind of Baptist/ Mennonites. Pointing out the humanistic pro-Classical era bias of the reformation could actually have nailed the pro-medieval Catholics a LOT harder, but have an anti-Catholic in bias that is too strong for them to see the separations pre- and post- Pope Gregory I.
I am all for sola-scriptoria, but the film is too biased and ignores that there where darn good non-biblical patristic theological and even some medieval theological arguments used by the Reformers and perhaps even more tellingly that there where Pro-Bible arguments among them too.
But the politics here won’t allow the producers to admit text criticism started in A.D. 300 etc. Google the producers and you see all kinds of meaningless junk documentaries like one against sinaiticus when ½ of the times I see “txt. א 1 “ in most Greek New Testaments anyways (that’s real technical, means they take the correction in the margin, not the original text). The whole “lets wail on the vulgate” section is also skewed a bit unfair, it wasn’t corrupt on purpose (at least not by the 15th century monks).
This really comes out when they blame bad vulgate readings for bad Catholic theology, when I think the Catholic theology is simply pure paganism given proof texts.
It just goes on and on.
I'm a protestant seminarian and don't dig rome, even think the Pope is an Anti-Christ, but these guys go to left field.

Terra Rikhotso

Sola-scriptura indeed... Heretics taking the place of real saints is very common these days. Thanx for the headsop

jake

who cares? they are the original mafia crime family. they projected onto the gay community their own perversions. it is christianity that indoctrinates children into a "lifestyle" (christianity) without the childs consent. Priests also prey on the most vulnerable members of society. children and people with disabilities. christianity kills and is a scourge