2004 Fondriest Status Carb frameset

I have found a 2004 Fondriest Status Carb frame that was built as a floor model in a shop. It might have 100 miles and is in pristine condition. The shop owner wants$1500 for the frame and Fondriest carbon fork. Over priced? Thanks for some insight!

Check ebay for comps. Use that information to negotiate with the shop owner. It is a used 6 year old frame.

Dr. Cox: Lady, people aren't chocolates. Do you know what they are mostly? Bastards. Bastard-coated bastards with bastard fillings. But I don't find them half as annoying as I find naive bubble-headed optimists who walk around vomiting sunshine.

I had a Carb Level and I liked the older Fondriest frames but I'd say it's worth $600 or $700 at most. $1400 is a preposterous price for that frame. Someone who posts on this board just bought a clean and complete 2004 Time VXRS module for that much money.

I can't believe that he really thought that he would be able to sell it for that price. I'm sure it's a good bike, but he is using a traditional sales tactic. There is soooooo much information on the internet. You could spend an hour surfing around and pricing bikes of that nature from that year and see what they are going for. Ebay is a good place to look. There is a pretty good rule of thumb for this type of situation, too. If you are a little unsure about the steepness of the price, but you really like THAT bike, then offer him half of his original asking price. I wouldn't go up much from there. If he refuses to come down, then stand your ground and politely tell him that you are going to look elsewhere. He wants to make the sale and he knows what that bike is worth, so unless he is a crook he will likely be willing to negotiate after that. If he doesn't, then take your business elsewhere.

I like when you get to that point and I donít know if itís the endorphins kicking in or what, but you realize youíre so far from where you started, that youíre finally really somewhere else, a completely different place.

Those are just a few of many, many, many more bikes that are priced equally. Everything that I just listed was a complete bike, so if your intention was to buy a frameset and build it up how you want it, of course you could go up another level on the frame that you buy.

I like when you get to that point and I donít know if itís the endorphins kicking in or what, but you realize youíre so far from where you started, that youíre finally really somewhere else, a completely different place.

I don't think the OP is worried about how to spend $1500, I think he likes that frame. There are 222 million other bikes to pick and none of them are a Fondriest Status Carb.

I own a Top Level from that era, and it is one of the best riding bikes I own. Fondriest really nailed it when it came to their combination of materials and geometry during that era.

That said, it's still overpriced.

My intention wasn't so much to try and tell the OP how to spend his money. My intention was more to give a rough outline of the way that bikes are priced so that if he really wants that frame, he has a better platform to stand on while talking the shop owner down. I tried to show a range of different bikes and framesets that can be purchased for $1500 to help illustrate why $1500 is too much to pay for a used, six year old frame. I can tell that the OP really likes THAT frame, and I understand that completely. I have a modern Giant bike that I bought last year with modern geometry, but my 10 year old aluminum Cannondale is still my favorite bike. That having been said, if a shop owner tried to sell me that R600 frameset for $500, I absolutely wouldn't pay it, because I know that I can buy a used one in good condition on ebay for way less than that.

To the OP, if you like that frame, go for it. I didn't mean to sound like I was trying to tell you to buy something else. I was just saying: "this is what you can buy for $1500, so you should offer half of that for that frame." I hope that you don't have to pick out another bike and that the owner will meet you on your terms once he sees that you know what you are talking about.

Good luck!

-Chris-

Last edited by thechriswebb; 02-14-2010 at 10:19 AM.

I like when you get to that point and I donít know if itís the endorphins kicking in or what, but you realize youíre so far from where you started, that youíre finally really somewhere else, a completely different place.

Never thought you were trying to sell me on anything else. I appreciate the willingness to offer your insights. I just want to do some research about the Fondriest - a frame I know nothing about. I want to get the most out of the bike. I have been looking at a couple Torelli frames at a shop in PA. They are hand built in Italy. Before I pull the trigger on the Fondriest I want to know how a 6 year old frame will stand against a new one with a similar classic race geometry. Thanks to you all I have some terms to take back to the shop owner. Appreciate it.

[QUOTE=thechriswebb]My intention wasn't so much to try and tell the OP how to spend his money. My intention was more to give a rough outline of the way that bikes are priced so that if he really wants that frame, he has a better platform to stand on while talking the shop owner down. [QUOTE]

That's pretty much my point - nothing that you posted compares to that frame. You can't go into a shop and say that the Status is overpriced compared to a bunch of modern steel frames built out of inferior tubesets. It's like saying that you're paying too much for a 1984 911 because you can get a brand new Toyota today for the same price. If I were the shop owner and you told me that the frame was too costly because you could get a brand new Jamis with Tiagra for the same price, I'd laugh at you.

In it's day it was regarded as a very desirable frame, and I'm sure that's why the seller thinks he can command a high price for it. That and the fact that he probably paid a lot for it.

I have no dog in the fight, I merely find it amusing when someone asks about a specific product and then gets dozens of examples of better things to spend their money on. It seems that here on the internet, we all want to be Dads and help our kids spend their newspaper route money the best way possible. But then it's not me asking.

[QUOTE=terry b][QUOTE=thechriswebb]My intention wasn't so much to try and tell the OP how to spend his money. My intention was more to give a rough outline of the way that bikes are priced so that if he really wants that frame, he has a better platform to stand on while talking the shop owner down.

That's pretty much my point - nothing that you posted compares to that frame. You can't go into a shop and say that the Status is overpriced compared to a bunch of modern steel frames built out of inferior tubesets. It's like saying that you're paying too much for a 1984 911 because you can get a brand new Toyota today for the same price. If I were the shop owner and you told me that the frame was too costly because you could get a brand new Jamis with Tiagra for the same price, I'd laugh at you.

In it's day it was regarded as a very desirable frame, and I'm sure that's why the seller thinks he can command a high price for it. That and the fact that he probably paid a lot for it.

I have no dog in the fight, I merely find it amusing when someone asks about a specific product and then gets dozens of examples of better things to spend their money on. It seems that here on the internet, we all want to be Dads and help our kids spend their newspaper route money the best way possible. But then it's not me asking.

Well, excuse me please. I'm sorry that I came across like a daddy trying to help my little child spend his allowance responsibly; that was not my intention. I have absolutely no idea how experienced the OP is or what level of riding that they want to pursue. I do not know if the OP wants to race, go on fitness rides, or do centuries. I do not know if the OP has a concept of how much bikes and components cost and if he didn't I thought it would be helpful to show a small selection of different kinds of bikes at that general price point. If he does, then my advice will be irrelevant to him and he will disregard it. If he is not familiar with different kinds of bikes and what they cost, then I thought it would be advantageous to have something to compare against.

I wasn't trying to outline what was better, or to say that a $1000 Jamis with Tiagra was a better deal than the Fondriest. However, if a close friend of mine was just getting into cycling, had that amount of money to spend, and asked for my advice on how to spend it for a beginner friendly bike to test the waters of the sport on, I would choose the complete Jamis with Tiagra over the Fondriest to build up with Super Record and 1100 gram carbon fiber wheels. Between the two, there is no comparison of which build would be higher end, but I think it is a fair to consider if those are the OP's purposes and the shop owner is trying to sell him a 6 year old used frame at an obscenely inflated price on the premise of what it commanded 6 years ago. If the OP goes back to the shop owner and says that he is just getting into the sport and wants a decent bike to test the waters and knows that he can get a complete bike that would serve that purpose for less than the cost of that frame, and the shop owner laughs at him, then the shop owner is an a$$hole and the OP needs to take his business elsewhere. I hope you were speaking figuratively about that, because people come into the bike shop I work at and ask much more ridiculous questions than that, and I would get fired if I laughed at them.

Again, if the OP is confident to go into a different level of riding and knows for a fact that the particular frame in question will serve his purposes better than any other, then he will disregard my words as irrelevant and I wouldn't have hurt him in any way.

I think it would be a legitimate question if the OP asked the shop owner why he could buy a brand new Wilier Mortirolo frameset from Competitive Cyclist for less than he is asking for a 6 year old used frame, no matter what price it commanded in 2004, he would have some explaining to do. I know what he could say: the Mortirolo isn't Wiliers top level frame, is made of a different type of carbon than their more expensive bikes, isn't the same type of bike that the Fondriest is, and so on. However, the fact that a brand new, very nice frameset from a respectable company can be purchased for less than the 6 year old used Fondriest demonstrates that the $1500 asking price is ridiculous.

Also, I've worked in a bike shop for a few years and I have severe doubts that the shop owner really thinks that he is charging a fair price for that frame. I don't think he believes that he can justify it's price because of what price it commanded years ago. If he owns a bike shop and has been selling bikes for any amount of time, then he knows that price is inflated and is trying to get as much out of it as he can. If there is one thing that every single one of us has agreed on, it is that the price the shop owner is asking is preposterous beyond reason. I'm not trying to play daddy to the OP; I am trying to keep him from being taken for a ride. He demonstrated that he had concerns about the age of the bike and it's comparison to modern bikes, and I didn't know if he knew that it was possible to buy a brand new contemporary carbon fiber Italian frameset for less than that. If the OP knows the intricacies of those two different bikes enough to know that he doesn't want something like the Mortirolo, then he's not going to go into a bike shop and destroy his credibility as a worthy customer by asking about it and get laughed out of the store by the cool roadies that he failed to impress. If he doesn't know the difference in the intricacies of those two bikes, then I would say that he would be far better off buying something like the brand new Wilier than paying an inflated price for an older, used bike, regardless of how well it nailed it's purpose when it was built.

The OP came to this board and asked a question. I tried to share just a little bit of perspective beyond "that frame costs too much" and show what is an appropriate investment of $1500 with an assortment of touring bikes, race bikes, and a modern Italian frameset. I don't know if the OP is a bike connoisseur that is completely confident that the bike he is looking at is the right one for him. For all I know based on what he has said, he might be a novice that walked into a bike shop with $1500 to spend, and the shop owner walked him over to this frameset and started trying to sell it to him, convincing him that it is what he needs. The fact that the shop owner asked that much for that frame is enough to make me question his motives and honesty with the OP. I fielded his question exactly the same way that I would if a customer walked into my shop and asked exactly the same question. I know that I was comparing apples and oranges, but I didn't want the OP to pay for an overpriced orange if an apple was more appropriate, if that makes any sense. If you guys feel that my post was inappropriate or misleading to the OP, then I will delete it and make sure to never give that kind of answer again. I would never want to cause someone to be laughed at or embarrassed.

OP, I hope I haven't caused you any confusion, put you in an awkward situation, or made you appear uncool or like a noob to anyone.

-Chris-

I like when you get to that point and I donít know if itís the endorphins kicking in or what, but you realize youíre so far from where you started, that youíre finally really somewhere else, a completely different place.

No sweat. I have been very appreciative that you were willing to take the time to help put things into perspective and leave the sorting out to me. I never took it that you were trying to tell me what to do with my investment. Except that the price for the Fondriest was way high. I have been riding avidly for over 25 years on higher end bikes but I don't don't race anymore, don't hang out in bike shops, don't subscribe to magazines, and don''t spend too much time following the latest trends. I sort of catch up when I need a new ride. So, that makes me a noob in some ways - and clearly nooby when it comes to this frameset. You could not have known my experience or motivation - so that makes me grateful for the help as I am sure most people in my place would be. You clearly have a lot of knowledge and have offered it appropriately. Thanks again.

What is an OP anyway?

Last update. I''d really like to own the Fondriest and went back to the shop. I mentioned I have been researching the Fondriest and asked if the price was negotiable (I had established a budget of $1000 for frame, transfer from the old frame, set-up and fit). The owner said he could come down to $1400. I didn't argue that point and didn't offer a more accurate price. I figure he wants to get all he can out of it and because it is in an upscale area - he probably will. But not from me :-). Ironically, I am looking at paying more for a new Torelli frame and a custom fit.

I think you made a wise choice. I have two Fondriests, a Domino Plus and a Carb Level Plus, both newer than the Status Carb and I didn't pay that much for either of them. The Carb Level Plus was brand new and I only paid $625 for it. These are two of my favorite bikes. I like the geometry so much that I had a custom steel frame made for me this past summer using the geometry of the Domino Plus.