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I doing a dream diary for some month now but am not yet capable of lucid dreaming (or maybe i just cant remember?), but i had an OBE some years ago. For me it started with a physical symptom, a vibration, tingle or rush that moved up to the head and across my whole body. The next stage was like sleep paralys where you cant move your body. From there My conciousness would project to the outside, leaving physical awareness behind, becoming only spirit, like floating with the ability to maneuver by thought only. I was able to perceive my room as it was and in this situation i actually started an inner dialogue about whether this was real world or dream world. the quality of my perception was very close to real world except for the down looking perspective from which i was looking at things. When i saw my physial body in bed below the inner dialoge became a battlefield about where i am and i panicked trying to renter my body which turned out to be quite difficult. I remembered some things i read about such situations and by applying this 'trick' i finally managed to get back in - so my waken conciousness was fully active finding and aplying solutions. Once back in the body i suddenly became aware of my physical body again and woke up instantly sweating, running heart beat and pulsing heart chakra (entry and exit point). The next day these physical sensations of vibration or rush occured again and again during daytime. Overall most intense experience in my life.

I am not an adept in these things but My idea of it can be sumarized that in a lucid dream one is concious of oneself while moving on other planes of conciousnes, i.e. the subconcious.

In an obe one is concious of oneself and detached from the denser shells i.e. the physical, projected outside of the body, able to maneuver by will / thought and project oneself even over large distances in the physical world(if one has all under controll :)). I guess the physical aspects as well as the reality aspects of the experience maybe key differentiators.

As I continue to hone in on different aspects of this journey, I am experiencing this dimension's cravings, emotional status, environment and sleep arrangement's can all make a difference. Diet is a big deal or anything that goes in to the body. When you mentioned denser shells, I thought of deeper body tissue instead of outside the body. We have so much stored inside us....deep inside us. Everything from deep emotional baggage from childhood to Hamburger Helper of 10 years ago! Come clean! Get clean! That is what my inner self is telling me for my lucid dreaming experiences. To me, the out of body experiences are an opportunity to contact others and I have friends I practice with that are in other locations and sometimes we hit and sometimes we miss. As a social worker I also know we see out of body experiences in children of abuse. This can lead to adults with no soul and needing help in soul retrieval which I have done a little work in but it can be pretty dark work. You say you are not adept but you sound like your well on your way. Happy journey my friend!

Yes, yes, yes, getting clean makes a difference! Re denser shells i wanted to pinpoint to the occult process of making a more subtle body come out from a denser body. This is refering to the mothers agenda nov 4th 1958

"...There are subtle bodies and subtle worlds that correspond to these bodies; it is what the psychological method calls 'states of consciousness,' but these states of consciousness really correspond to worlds. The occult process consists in becoming aware of these various inner states of being, or subtle bodies, and of mastering them sufficiently to be able to make one come out of the other, successively. For there is a whole hierarchy of increasing subtleties - or decreasing, depending upon the direction - and the occult process consists in making a more subtle body come out from a denser body, and so forth, right to the most ethereal regions. You go out through successive exteriorizations into more and more subtle bodies or worlds. Each time it is rather like passing into another dimension. In fact, the fourth dimension of the physicists is only the scientific transcription of an occult knowledge.

To give another comparison, it could be said that the physical body is at the center - it is the most material and the most condensed, as well as the smallest - and the more subtle inner bodies increasingly overlap the limits of this central physical body; they pass through it and extend further and further out, like water evaporating from a porous vase which creates a kind of steam all around it. And the more subtle it is, the more its extension tends to fuse with that of the universe: you finally become universal. It is an entirely concrete process that makes the invisible worlds an objective experience and even allows you to act in those worlds...."

"...or in other words, a human being who, through his occult knowledge, goes out of one of his 'bodies' (they are called sheaths in English) and enters into a more subtle body - in order to ACT in a more subtle body - and so forth, twelve times (you make each body come out from a more material body, leaving the more material body in its corresponding zone, and then go off through successive exteriorizations)..."

So, on a second thought the difference between lucid dreaming and an obe is fading away in the sense that lucid dreaming may be used to describe the process of concious exteriorisation into various planes while an obe is possibly most often used to describe the exteriorization in the physical plane only, leaving only the physical body behind?

So I 'm reading this and my mind begins to make images of fractals! Seeing the world around you as an extension of self and a connection to more & everywhere there is birthing, & growing and increasing and becoming more and then reaching the peak, & then descending and eventually dieing off and then beginning again but not in just one phase...it's going on all around us and we are a part of that big ball of orgasmic life but if we are so dense and weighted down through our diet & emotional immaturity we are missing the best part of the freakin ride man! Whew! What a journey!!

OOBE are usually relating more to what is called the "real time zone", which is a bit closer to things as they are in our plane of reality, still with quite a few strange astral aspects. It is said that after a projection appropriate which ive only experienced a few of-- the body stays in the real time zone for a short period before catapulted into the astral levels, and that with proficiency, longer amounts of time in the rtz are possible. Astral projections vary due to the fact that they are entirely astral in their phenomena and not necessarily corresponding at all to our wake world-- but could even be actual variational dimensions of where we live awake. A lucid dream can have a share of both described above, astral and real time, usually leaning more towards one or the other. Lucid dreams in many cases are not willed therefore on a different conscious order than oobe or Ap-- BUT many do know how to trigger WILDS or wake induced lucid dreams which are very similiar, since you go to sleep right into the luucid dream. Hope that assists. BTW, remote viewing is supposed to be a bit different than all the phenomena above unless its attempted ina way less related to its various protocols-- rv practicioners like Courtney Brown speak of a subspace mind continuum that is experienced, which is far less resolute than astral, oobe or lucid dream experiences, more opaque and transparent. Hopefully that assists to make sense out of the differences.

For me Lucid Dreaming is me projecting my consciousness onto the very Real Astral. I don't need my Astral body on the realms. This is how one does remote viewing. It is also a step that I take to get onto the Astral. Once my consciousness is thee, my body forms soon after. It has been very spontaneous for me all my life. I did not gain control until I started practicing the methods. To answer your question; the way I can tell if my Astral body has project or OBE..is that I have mostly all my senses. I can feel touches, smell and taste even. On dream state you usually only see and hear.

I have often wondered the same. Maybe Lucid Dreaming and EOB's are one in the same, but both are achieved in a different manner and associated with a different plane of existence???????

I had a spontaneous EOB once, when I was wide awake. My spirit (for lack of a better term) was momentarily teleported to a different place on earth. On the other hand, when I lucid dream I sense I am not in this world but on a different plane.

For me I feel like a our of body experience starts with you being conscious, I best describe to others as the time when you are laying down to rest, sleep, or nap, and you start to feel spinning, almost like when you drink 2 much and get the dizzy'z and then go puke, except you don't do the puke thing, lol. The first few times it happened to me I resisted it and stopped the spinning because I was afraid, then I decided to just go with it and let the spin continue. Then for me I start to feel vibrations and spinning and most recent year have been hearing a very electronic-chimmey noise almost like a machine whirring in my chest area. Then I tell myself to get up from my body, because now I know whats going on, before I would just feel myself float up, up and up, and feel myself go through roof and feel crisp air of outside nitetime, but never opened eyes cause I was afraid, lol, now of course I open my eyes and usually make a sprint for the closest wall so I can go outside and see what is there to see, I am always so excited to go explore, so I must hurry before I am slammed back into my body, because its never of my will to go back yet, somehow I think I connect with my physical body or what not. I have been having a harder time doing it recently, so have purchased some wholeness products and can already tell my vibrations are increasing at nite when I lay down, but still nothing yet. Lucid dreaming is when you are dreaming and at some point you realize you are dreaming and then decide to control the dream. For me this usually happens when I am being chased by someone and everywhere I go , person is right behind me, so finally I realize I am dreaming and then decide I am invisible to them, or I shoot up straight in the sky to ditch them, but sometimes they just follow me then I have to resort to being invisible, or becoming a part of the interior walls or ceiling if I am in a building. I have so many different types of dreams that I really to live in my dreams, and usually when I wake up I am still trying to solve whatever problem or thinking bout whatever was happening before I woke then I realize it was a dream, and try to remember everything so I can remember forever, should keep a journal, just too lazy when I wake up to write stuff down!

Lately, I have been noticing that I can't tell if I was dreaming or not. My dreams are appearing very real to me. I woke up the other day wondering if what was said to me was a dream or not. It is almost like a loud whisper in my head that makes sure I remember it when I awake. The sound is in my ears and what is being said is so loud. But I am the only person that hears it. The loud whisper scares me out of my sleep. I glance over at my fiance and he is sleeping like a baby. This is happening to me a lot. One time I heard a loud voice yell at me and say WAKE UP and I jumped up because it scared me. Again, my fiance is sound asleep. What is so funny is that I am jumping up out of my sleep once I hear this voice but I do not know if it really happened or not. In my mind when the voice scares me - I yell out loud as hell. But the next morning when I ask my fiance if he heard me yelling or felt me jump up - he says no. I always remember when it happens because it scares the sh*t out of me. Though I am not afraid of it because it is not a boogy man. It just catches me off guard every time. The voices always belong to people I know or are familiar with.

I have had this experience also Ms. Bey. Sometimes it is like right in my head and other times it is as if they were right beside me. Perhaps it is the thinning of the veil and something comes through from the other side. Since they can see and know things not available to me, I try to pay attention.

I have actually done this to my Mum. I had been attempting to astral travel and would try every night when I went to bed. I had many discussions with my Mum about it and we are both vivid dreamers. I remember waking up during the night laughing and saying to myself "I'll have to ask mum if she remembers that!" I promptly fell back to sleep forgetting the whole experience until the next time I saw my mum and she told me I had woken her up! She was in a dream and outside of her dream she could hear me calling her Mum! Mum! Mum! She said she woke up up expecting me to be in her room. She dozed off again and the same thing happened. She wasn't happy that I kept waking her up! lol. It has happened several times. Perhaps people on the astral plane are connecting with you and trying to wake you up out of the dream not necessarily trying to wake you out of physical sleep.

Wholeness to you all! i just wanna say its so great to see so many people interested and ready to take that journey into the next Realm the Real-Time realm of The Obe..vs the Lucid dream..In my experience I find that Lucid dreams mostly happen or take place within the Throat chakra the "Realm of the Dreams" and Becoming luicid Means actually waking up within it while still sleeping, realizing you have complete control and that it is just a dream i find that my senses are heightened and its super easy to fly and do magical things there! And im Normally in a totally different environment than where i fell asleep. The Throat Chakra is also responsible for Manifesting so it actually makes sense that it would be easier to Get things to just pop up and fade away or dream about some far off fantasy land and then actually go there without actually leaving...but you're still Not neccessarily having an O.B.E even though you can feel and touch and taste in a lucid dream as well as in an O.B.E because you're still within the Physical's body Throat center..its where the conciousness naturally drops when one goes to sleep...its still a deep deep center and alot can be learned there.

Now The Outer Body Experience is totally different. You go through the actual process of What Feels more like a Rebirthing than any thing else (imo).Normally out of the Third eye Chakra or The Crown.You get the vibrations the heart pounding action, the weird voices or sounds...for Me it was a Flatline Type sound after the Weird rushing noises and then the Room suddenly Lit up! and then i Simply thought get up and then i got up! It was from something i read about exiting through the Third eye, its really alot more mental from this point on. I Walked around saw that everything was in like Super Hd all of the time it was totally Mind blowing..but totally different than a regular dream..I felt extremely liberated no longer had a fear of death it was amazing! ahhh the memories!! lol :-) I couldnt even fly at first! I had to actually learn by having multiple O.B.E's and practicing every chance i got. Its like being in a Super real World where the Things that u do there trickle down to this reality, but first it takes You constantly trying until you succeed at having them at will. Which can be done..Once done your astral body lines up with the 3d one and the Syncronicity Begins! hope this helps!!! Love Light and Wholeness