Good to here. He did some repairs on a frame for me a few years ago through my LBS. I've still got that frame here in Nigeria. I'm going to get it refurbed some time and I'll get him to put one of his straight blade steel forks on it as well.

The RAF bases in Lincolnshire were very important in the War. Many Canadians fought with distinction for the RAF.

I own two of Dave's frames and know Ricky Feather and Tom Donhue well. They're all great frame builders, Dave used to do the contracting for Condor before they moved most of their manufacturing to Italy, he's probably had thousands of frames through his hands over the years. Having said that I'd go to Ricky or Tom if I wanted a bike at the racier end of the spectrum.

The new HSS tubing looks interesting, Ricky's got a set on order and is going to build a frame for himself to see what it's like. With Madison Genesis and some of Rapha Condor JLT on steel bikes there's some decent feedback flowing back into steel race frames in the U.K. From what I've heard you have to be a bit careful that in the quest for stiffness you don't end up with something very uncomfortable.

From what I've heard you have to be a bit careful that in the quest for stiffness you don't end up with something very uncomfortable.

That's very true. That sentiment could apply to any material. Although I am a big fan of independent frame builders, I can't help but wonder if the push back toward steel frames is just fashion. My own belief is that carbon frames were very much the ultimate of what riders wanted for some time in the pursuit of stiffness, low weight etc. but now that carbon frames are so common place I wonder if the reason for more and more steel frames appearing is purely down to riders wanting something unique. I'm not knocking that in the slightest, just wondering......

I'd agree with you completely. Personally I love the idea of supporting British craft on top of the fashion aspect of things and I've ridden enough bikes to know it isn't frame material that's preventing me from winning chippers...

From what I've heard you have to be a bit careful that in the quest for stiffness you don't end up with something very uncomfortable.

That's very true. That sentiment could apply to any material. Although I am a big fan of independent frame builders, I can't help but wonder if the push back toward steel frames is just fashion. My own belief is that carbon frames were very much the ultimate of what riders wanted for some time in the pursuit of stiffness, low weight etc. but now that carbon frames are so common place I wonder if the reason for more and more steel frames appearing is purely down to riders wanting something unique. I'm not knocking that in the slightest, just wondering......

I've ridden/owned high end steel and in my opinion steel doesnt make the ultimate race bike. You can just tune carbon more than with steel. Saying that, I loved having something unique and would love another steel bike. They are beautiful and offer something unique compared to the cookie cutter carbon bikes out there.

That brings into question what the ultimate race bike is. In my book it's the one that gets the rider to his best performance. If that's a carbon bike for you that's great, but it may be a steel or even titanium bike for another. My friend used to compete in Audax events and couldn't get used to the stiffness of carbon frames, he did his best rides on steel.

I do agree that carbon frames can be 'tuned' more than steel ones if you're involved in the design of the frame from the raw material through to the finish but very few have that privilege. Most rely on a standardised frame design from one of the major manufacturers.

I do agree that carbon frames can be 'tuned' more than steel ones if you're involved in the design of the frame from the raw material through to the finish but very few have that privilege. Most rely on a standardised frame design from one of the major manufacturers.

Exactly. I can get a steel frame made to how I want it for a fraction of the price of a bespoke carbon frame. Of course there's a weight penalty with steel and as I stated in a previous mail, steel can also be very harsh as well. So, I don't think it's better than carbon, just better value. If I was young and racing, then it's highly likely I would choose carbon: but it's horses for courses. However, if someone else was paying asked me to choose between a carbon frame made by Parlee or a steel Baum, I would choose the latter. It just appeals more to my sensibilities.

I'd agree with you completely. Personally I love the idea of supporting British craft on top of the fashion aspect of things and I've ridden enough bikes to know it isn't frame material that's preventing me from winning chippers...

KB wrote:

stephen@fibre-lyte wrote:

I do agree that carbon frames can be 'tuned' more than steel ones if you're involved in the design of the frame from the raw material through to the finish but very few have that privilege. Most rely on a standardised frame design from one of the major manufacturers.

Exactly. I can get a steel frame made to how I want it for a fraction of the price of a bespoke carbon frame. Of course there's a weight penalty with steel and as I stated in a previous mail, steel can also be very harsh as well. So, I don't think it's better than carbon, just better value. If I was young and racing, then it's highly likely I would choose carbon: but it's horses for courses. However, if someone else was paying asked me to choose between a carbon frame made by Parlee or a steel Baum, I would choose the latter. It just appeals more to my sensibilities.

And it is this element of sensibilities that's at the heart of my decision. My best bike is carbon and it's very nice thank you but...I suppose I also want to be more individual, I'm all for more people riding bikes but it less fun being a misfit when everyone else is too. There is this element of supporting British craft - I was excited to see the genesis volare but I think they have missed part of the point in being a British company, using a British tubeset, and then manufacturing in Taiwan - I'm test riding a new Enigma as soon as they are available as a starting point and going from there......

There is this element of supporting British craft - I was excited to see the genesis volare but I think they have missed part of the point in being a British company, using a British tubeset, and then manufacturing in Taiwan -

No they haven't missed the point, it's just that it's simply not feasible to have them manufactured in the UK and keep the price at the same price point hence why they're manufactured in Taiwan. How many riders would buy the bike if it was lets say twice the price but completely built in Britain. Not enough I'd say. I think that if you want to have something that little bit different then you need to get in touch with a custom frame builder and not even consider off the shelf bikes. That's the point isn't it, something different isn't 'off the shelf'. I think the ride on the Enigma will at least give you an idea of what the material is like to ride when built into a frameset, then start considering whether you want something that is mass produced or whether you can afford to take the time and expense and own something that no one else has by having your own bike custom built.

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