(03-04-2013 04:37 PM)Ameron1963 Wrote: "Nothing wrong with being alone"? Try it! Being alone can kill you! Being alone hurts deeply! Being alone can make you hate yourself, condemn yourself! Being alone is hateful and terrible! I know that you face the fact that there is no god. Don't feed lonely people platitudes. Don't tell us that your children mean nothing! Lonliness can kill you!

First off, you don't know anything about my life and how lonely or not I am.

Second of all, they are not platitudes. If you depend on others to give your life meaning and not hate yourself, you're pretty much doomed.

And yeah, children are not playthings to be toyed with and fill the voids in their parents' lives.

I was going to say more, but I'm out of this. I understand you're bitter, but this is not the way to go about it.

Quote:- How do you fill that space? After all, we all are supposed to be here to procreate.

I'm sorry, but I hate that reasoning so much I had to quote it. It's true that for a species to survive, some of them have to procreate, but it is absolutely not necessary for each individual to pass on his genes.

Also, this kind of thing sounds incredibly depressing, like the ONLY thing worth doing is having babies. Personally, there is all kinds of things in the world that give my life meaning and that I enjoy. ETA: And as others have said, kids are not just like a kid buying a doll for her own amusement. They are individual beings with feelings and minds of their own. They are a lot of trouble to raise, expensive, messy, smelly. It is a huge responsibility.

As for filling the space, I don't even understand how parents make time enough to take care of children. I don't even have that kind of free time, so there is no space to be filled.

Quote:- How do you see yourselves when older, when there's only you and your partner?

No partner, but I see my life as filled with hobbies and stuff I like, enjoying the peace, quiet, and solitude.

Quote:- Don't you feel that you missed something in your life? i.e. your life is incomplete...

Not even a little bit. Many people have told me that my life is incomplete, which I find incredibly rude, though. Before my dad died, he lamented that he thought he'd have grandchildren by now, as if that was my duty in life or something. I honestly think I'd hate having kids, and I'm glad that glandular problems and medications have made me probably infertile. As I see it, not having kids and being in my 30s is less like "having missed out on something" and more like having dodged a bullet or oncoming train.

That being said, if YOU want children, you could look into other methods like adoption, or even working with children.

[sorry, didn't read the rest of the thread until having written this far]

Anyway, just giving a different point of view on things. As I see it, different peopel do different things to give their life "meaning" and to enjoy life. For many, it seems to be raising children. For others, it is art. Some people even enjoy their careers and it gives them something to look forward to every day. Some people travel, take up a hobby, etc. There is a stigma against not having kids (I come from a Catholic family, and I think it's especially true when surrounded by catholics), but that doesn't mean it's necessary to procreate in order to have an enjoyable and fulfilling life.

Quote:Second, as much as I would like to give you some hopeful message, I think that everyone should face the fact that they may very well die alone. Not a pleasant thought (though it does have some positive aspects, like not leaving behind grieving people), but I think it's better to consider it and try to make our peace with it. This way, if it actually does happen, we may be (at least) somewhat prepared to deal with it (at least that's what I've done.)

We had to read something once in a philosophy course suggesting we all just assume we will die alone, and that way we can let go of that fear and it won't haunt us forever. Personally, I have never had that fear. I'm more concerned with how I live than who's gonna be by my bedside when I die.

anjele Wrote:If you really want a child there a lot of kids that need someone to love and take care of them. If you want to be involved with kids but can't have one, coach a team, help with a rec center, do reading time at the library, volunteer at a school or children's hospital.

I have friends who are serial monogamists and insist on having a child with EVERY partner, sometimes many of them, because they want a kid who is biolgically related to both. I just can't understand this type of thinking when there are kids out there with no parents.

Quote:As our parents and family members die we see the end of life scenario play out with their children. Siblings fighting over who has to take care of the ailing parents (none want to) and how will any inheritance be divided. As Dom said much complaining about many things such as not being called or child not believing in gods or marrying the "wrong" person. What a pain in the ass.

This too. Also, I have friends with teenage children, and damn, I would hate worrying about them getting pregnant/getting someone pregnant. And the normal fights, and all the stuff that come with getting older and dying.

Quote:"Nothing wrong with being alone"? Try it! Being alone can kill you! Being alone hurts deeply! Being alone can make you hate yourself, condemn yourself! Being alone is hateful and terrible! I know that you face the fact that there is no god. Don't feed lonely people platitudes. Don't tell us that your children mean nothing! Lonliness can kill you!

Again, this depends on what you value. Some people enjoy being alone. I prefer being alone. And I prefer not having kids. Also, "being alone" is not the same thing as "loneliness."

If you are hating yourself, then maybe there are different issues than just being alone. You can't always rely on others for your own happiness, and to do so seems to me like a recipe for disaster. I know lots of people in terrible relationships just because they can't bear to be alone and are totally codependent. Also, I'd say it's possible to have a healthy and active social life without having a partner or children. In fact, when I spend a lot of time around friends or relatives, I look forward to coming home and relaxing with no other people around. D

Well, Ameron, you are not alone, you have your brother with you, albeit it sounds like he is not getting proper meds. You may enjoy his company more if he did. Maybe go to a different doc?

I guess what it means to be alone is in the eye of the beholder. I love it. I never wanted children and I don't regret not having had them. Yes they are cute, but so is my dog.

Being alone means you can eat and sleep when and where you want, do what you want without disturbances, and follow your passions, whatever they may be.

It sounds to me like you are not interested in anything? Nothing fills your life with wonder or joy? You know, having kids because you think that will fix the fact that you don't enjoy life is not a very good idea.

And, animal studs are there to procreate. People have a choice. I think we most certainly have more than enough people procreating, many of them totally unsuitable to be parents.

Plus, yes, I don't think this world will be hospitable to humankind for much longer, and that is because of excessive procreation. (Breeding like rats and over running the world). I wouldn't want to be born now, and I would't want someone I love to be born now either.

Science is the process we've designed to be responsible for generating our best guess as to what the fuck is going on. Girly Man

(04-04-2013 07:17 PM)Dom Wrote: And, animal studs are there to procreate. People have a choice. I think we most certainly have more than enough people procreating, many of them totally unsuitable to be parents.

Plus, yes, I don't think this world will be hospitable to humankind for much longer, and that is because of excessive procreation. (Breeding like rats and over running the world). I wouldn't want to be born now, and I would't want someone I love to be born now either.

This too, very much. I know a lot of people who are very good parents, and I don't disagree with their choice to have kids.

On the other hand, I sometimes wonder if a lot of people have kids because it's expected of them, it's just a thing you're "supposed to" do as an adult. I also have trouble understanding why most people only want biological children, and don't adopt (not talking about the OP, just in general). There's also the fact that many people being born in more recent times are often ending up with crappier, harder lives than their parents. This wasn't always so, parents always want the kid to do better, have an easier life, make more money, be happier. And nowadays most parents are less sure of that becoming a reality. There are times I almost want to call some people selfish for having children.

But yeah, people have a choice about having kids. If you don't have kids, you don't have to worry about homo sapiens dying out because you didn't personally contribute (saying our "purpose" is procreation seems to imply this). Lots of kids being born every day. I think that mentality still comes from the "go forth and multiply" crap, even for the nonreligious. It made sense for the ancient jews, it doesn't make so much sense for modern people.

(04-04-2013 06:56 PM)amyb Wrote: We had to read something once in a philosophy course suggesting we all just assume we will die alone, and that way we can let go of that fear and it won't haunt us forever. Personally, I have never had that fear. I'm more concerned with how I live than who's gonna be by my bedside when I die.

Amy, that's actually what I meant, although I tried to avoid being too direct about it (most people only want others to tell them what they want to hear and how they want to hear it, anyway).

Plus, we all die alone anyway, there may be a whole bunch of people by my bedside when I'm dying, weeping their eyes out, but I will still be alone. And to be fair, I do find the thought of not leaving people behind to grieve for me, rather comforting. Now, leaving behind people who'll be celebrating like crazy...

I think a more valid fear is not if you're going to die alone (yes, you are), but if you're going to live alone. And even this is not a scary thought for everyone.

Also, I know I've said it before, but I just have to quote the great Fernando Pessoa again: "If you cannot live alone, you were born a slave."

(08-04-2013 11:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote: 2) Humans that existed before God imparted His image upon us simply lived and died. Much like any other animal. They had no knowledge of good and evil because the image of God let us understand this. They simply died and went into nonexistence.

3) I don't know the exact time when God imparted His image on humanity. I do believe it was before written history.

Chas, substitute the word Vera for the word God and you know where those, who joined before me, stand. Only difference is, we do know when I imparted My image on you. October 2012. Blessed be the date.

Now, if you do not want to be much like any other animal, I suggest you start worshipping me right now, just like everyone else...

(08-04-2013 11:16 AM)kingschosen Wrote: 2) Humans that existed before God imparted His image upon us simply lived and died. Much like any other animal. They had no knowledge of good and evil because the image of God let us understand this. They simply died and went into nonexistence.

3) I don't know the exact time when God imparted His image on humanity. I do believe it was before written history.

Chas, substitute the word Vera for the word God and you know where those, who joined before me, stand. Only difference is, we do know when I imparted My image on you. October 2012. Blessed be the date.

Now, if you do not want to be much like any other animal, I suggest you start worshipping me right now, just like everyone else...

False idol! Get thee behind me, Vera!

Skepticism is not a position; it is an approach to claims.
Science is not a subject, but a method.