Paul's gospel must be accepted

As for strike one, Paul is basically saying the same thing Jesus did. You may have bolded that no one can be plucked out of the Father's hand, but
you ignore that right before that statement, that no one can be plucked from Jesus hand either.

I've already explained in this thread why Jesus told everyone that the Father was greater than he. It was because Jesus was in the flesh. God the
Father pulled the strings of Jesus while he was here on earth, therefore, making God the Father greater than Jesus during the time he was here on
earth.

As for strike two, Paul may have used the term "father" (lower case) to show that he loved them like a father because he would not only instruct
them in Christ, but love them in Christ like a real father would. Paul never asked the Corinthians to call him father, now did he? Jesus said not to
have anyone CALL you father.

As for strike three, Paul was talking about the trespasses against God, not man. The Lord's prayer mentions both. We are to ask God for forgiveness
against our trespasses against him just like we are to ask for forgiveness from other men for the ones we commit against them. The blood of Jesus
allows us forgiveness from the trespasses we make against both of them.

edit on 14-2-2013 by Deetermined because: (no reason given)

See what I mean... you'll just try to explain it away instead accepting the obvious contradiction... but whatever...

Believe in Paul... I will not.

I believe that is what it means by "blaspheme against the Holy Spirit" (as was pointed out earlier by Mark 3:30).

Mark 3:30 is narration from the author of the book.... obviously

IF they said "He had an unclean spirit" I believe Matthew 12 covers that issue...

31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be
forgiven unto men.

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him:, but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it
shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

We'll be judged by faith first and then judged by our words and actions as to what position we're awarded in heaven.

That's where the verses about those who were first on earth may be least in the kingdom of heaven and vice versa come in.

Here's what the Bible tells us. Basically, that those who practice what they preach will be considered mighty in the kingdom of heaven and those who
don't will be considered least.

Matthew 5:19

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but
whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Though I don't see a point... you'll likely just explain it away just like everyone else tries to..

Paul.

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Jesus

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Strike one...

Paul

1Cor.4
[15] For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel..

Jesus

Matthew 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Strike two...

Paul

Eph.1
[7] In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace

The lords prayer?

14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

Strike three!!

Yerrr outa there Paul!!!

I’ve been struggling with Paul myself, but was already aware of the “call no man Father”, contradiction, but didn’t realize about the last
one, you posted above. Although a lot would seem to depend on what the context of Paul’s words are/mean, but in a few cases, I’m finding it hard
to defend his position.

According to Paul, faith is the basis of judgement, those who do not have faith are sent to hell, what they say does not matter. So Jesus saying
nothing about being judged on faith means Paul added that doctrine in himself in my opinion.

But you can continue to hold on to a murderers words like they're from Jesus himself if you want, but I choose to acknowledge those contradictions
that you ignore.

I say that Jesus never rose from the dead, that is a word against Jesus, the Son of Man. Him rising from the dead is the basis behind faith, which
Paul describes as being the thing in which judgement is based on. If Jesus said it was okay, then why does Paul say that not believing he rose from
the dead is unforgivable? Am I forgiven as Jesus said, or am I condemned as Paul said? Contradiction much?

I know Jesus talked about faith, I'm saying Jesus didn't mean it in the same way as Paul does. Paul perverted the meaning of faith, saying it meant
faith in Jesus' resurrection. That's not the way Jesus was using it, he never mentioned his death while talking about faith.

In what context did the OT use the word faith if not about Jesus' death? Faith is a pretty common word throughout the OT. What Jesus meant by faith
is not what you think it is, you have been given the wrong interpretation in my opinion.

I know Jesus talked about faith, I'm saying Jesus didn't mean it in the same way as Paul does.

Paul perverted the meaning of faith, saying it meant faith in Jesus' resurrection. That's not the way Jesus was using it, he never mentioned his
death while talking about faith.

John 11:25

25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:

In what context did the OT use the word faith if not about Jesus' death? Faith is a pretty common word throughout the OT. What Jesus meant by
faith is not what you think it is, you have been given the wrong interpretation in my opinion.

John 8:24

24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

And where does he say the word faith? I don't believe he died and rose from the dead, but I do have faith in who he said he was. He was the
resurrection, and so are you and I. We resurrected when we were literally born again. We died in a previous life then "resurrected" into this new
body, and it will happen over and over again forever. Why would Jesus say he was the resurrection in present tense? If he hadn't resurrected yet, he
would have used past tense.

You have a skewed perception on what the word faith means. I guess if a man has faith that his wife won't cheat on him, that means he has faith in a
guy who lived 2,000 years ago? No, there are many different types of faith, not just in his death for 3 days.

The bible is a book written by men, meaning it is prone to manipulation. There is tons of evidence that points toward it being manipulated, you just
choose to ignore it and pretend it's not there. Jesus' teachings were on reincarnation, his reference to being born again is proof of that in my
opinion. And so do other teachings of his, especially his parables.

Can I ask you something with all due respect? Why do you tell people this paul gospel story? You actually believe the stuff your saying? It applies
to nothing and has no effect on the world around you. It effects Only You because your willing to believe it. And Jesus dying and coming back ?
Please....If you preach rules and punishment , and claim to be the true word do you realize the responsability your putting on your shoulders when you
grow enough to realize it was all hogwash?
This is why Athiests are popping up everywhere. Religion of any form is nonsense regardless of what youve been taught. Seriously now, think about it.
Do you honestly even want a religion that would treat you less then you deserve? Besides ,if you believe one story, you gotta believe in them all. Why
not just believe in yourself and shake off the faith based mind control and re-claim your spirits right to think for yourself. Do yourself a favor.I
mean no disrespect and I care about your soul even though I dont know you.Never surrender your will in Gods name. Good luck to you.

The bible is a book written by men, meaning it is prone to manipulation.

And yet it's still considered to have the most copies and be the most accurately preserved of any and all ancient documents even though they are
written in several languages. A little research will prove that most changes/inaccuracies were linguistic ones that didn't change the meaning of the
texts.

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