Wayne Hussey: Salad Daze – interview

The Mission’s frontman, Wayne Hussey, has just released part one of his autobiography, Salad Daze; a warts-and-all chronicle covering life up to and including his time with The Sisters of Mercy. Paul Grace caught up with Wayne to chat about the revealing new book.

Wayne Hussey will be in conversation with John Robb at this years Louder Than Words music and books festival in Manchester on Sunday Nov 10th. Tickets and details from here.

Why did you decide to write Salad Daze now?

Well, people had been on to me for a few years to write a book. They’d tell me I had some great stories and the way that I tell them makes people laugh, but I was busy making music. By the time our last album, Another Fall from Grace, had come out in 2016, I felt slightly depleted of music ideas, and that was the right time to do something else, so it was an opportune moment to write the book. I was also coming up to 60 last year, and while I still have some of my faculties and brain cells I thought it might be a good idea to sit down and put pen to paper, as they say.

How did you find the writing experience?

I actually thoroughly enjoyed it. It’s a bit like writing a song or recording an album because it’s not something I can sit down and say, write half an hour here, or 15 minutes there. I have to get into the frame of mind and it can take a couple of hours before I get into the flow of writing. But once it comes you have to surrender to it, much like when you are writing a song when it comes you have to surrender to that. I really enjoyed dredging up the memories – it’s very strange how one little memory can provoke a whole avalanche of others.

For each chapter of the book, there’s an accompanying Spotify / YouTube playlist. What was the thinking behind that?

Well, I sent a few chapters early on to a friend who said, “You know what I did when I was reading through this? I put a playlist together of the songs you were talking about within the chapters and I was listening to them as I was reading. It had a really immersive quality to it”. I know when I read a book and the author’s talking about certain songs and albums that I don’t know it makes me want to listen to them. The thing is, as I said in the preface, I’m writing the book because of music and that is my first love, it just seemed to make sense as another element to it.

So we start with a very young Wayne growing up in 60s and 70s Britain. It sounded a tough time, you lived in Bristol and your family were pretty much on the bread line.

I wouldn’t exactly say that. My mum and dad were working-class but we never really had much money. I think I mentioned I got a fake Ben Sherman one Christmas and a cheap guitar and things like that but it was what it was. I didn’t feel any hardships though – I was supported all the way by my parents pursuing this idea of being a musician.

So it was a happy childhood?

Yeah I think so, I think the whole thing of being adopted had an effect on me psychologically, my dad didn’t come into the picture until I was around four years old, so I was just raised with women and I suppose that coloured me a bit. But at the same time, I haven’t grown up with any great traumas in my childhood. When I read other peoples’ books about how they had dysfunctional families and grew up in poverty, or there was some kind of abuse going on, none of that happened to me and I am very fortunate in that. With all the Mormonism we spent a lot of time at church and it was just natural to us at that age. I didn’t question it until I got older and found out other kids were going to the youth club and kissing girls and I was like, “Ohh I wonder what that is like…?”.

In your earlier Mission records, there are a lot of references to religion. Do you think that was due to your Mormon upbringing?

I think it was the whole vocabulary and imagery of the bible was there ingrained in me, and it was a natural inclination for me to write with those words and meanings. I look back at the early Mission stuff, and this is all going to be in the second book, and I am not really sure if most of those songs mean very much. They sound great but in terms of actually being able to articulate an emotion at that point but I’m not sure if I was able.

Like a colourful play with words?

Exactly. I still like to do that with a play on words really.

In Salad Daze, you say your first big dream as a kid was that of being a footballer. Were you upset when you realised this wasn’t going to happen?

Not really, I always believed I was going to be a footballer. I’d read stories about footballers who had never played for their school and who were now professional footballers and who were now doing well. It was more about being dedicated to what you wanted to do, like the choice you made and being dedicated to that. I was always very dedicated to it even though I was perhaps not the best footballer in the world. I would always think I could end up playing for Bristol Rovers rather than Liverpool. But then music came along and that diverted my attention really and I thought, “I prefer to do this really it looks a lot easier”.

Your dedication to being a musician was exemplary. It seemed pretty clear from the start that you were destined to be a rock star.

I was so focused, I had much more self-belief back then – far more than I do now, funnily enough. I guess it’s the naivety of youth. When I left school I knew that all I wanted to do was be a musician. At that time in school, the term “musician” was seen as a dirty word when it came to careers, but I thought, “Why is it a dirty word? This is what I want to do so why can’t I make it my career?”.
I also think a lot of people harbour the same kind of ambitions or the same kind of dreams but a thing called life gets in the way. Things happen, maybe you become a parent early on, or you get married too early and that shapes the way your life goes. I had to make sacrifices for sure. I remember when I was young I would come back from Liverpool to Bristol and see some of my old friends and they would be driving around in cars and had regular girlfriends and had money, but I had none of that because I was dedicated to making the music. But that was the sacrifice I made.

You also spent a bit of time working in the local Co-Op?

(laughs) Yes as a trainee manager. That was my life mapped out for me right there. I got sacked (laughs)

Well…that worked out for the best clearly!

I think the best thing I ever did in that respect was leaving home and moving to Liverpool, because, when I was at home, my parents would tell me, “You need to get out and get a job”. They were from that generation where they had a very good work ethic, “You’re not going to lounge around here all day playing that guitar you have to get out and work”. So I went to Liverpool and that was the making of me I think.

You must have been quite young when you moved to Liverpool to pursue your dream of being a musician. Was it daunting?

I was 18 I think, I know people leave home to go to university but I wasn’t going to Liverpool for that. I was excited. I think I write in the book that I had some trepidation but I can’t remember any of it really. This was what my life was going to be, it was going to be different. I moved from the comfort of being at home with my parents and my family to living in a cold-water flat in Liverpool and it was freezing, but exciting.

Mark Bolan was instrumental in springboarding your love for music?

He was the first and I still love him and T. Rex. I’m actually flying out to LA in a couple of weeks to shoot a video with his son, Roland Bolan. It will be on a new version of 20th Century Boy. Roland is singing and I play guitar and sing backing vocals.

Eric’s in Liverpool sounded like a fab place to hang out where you crossed paths with the likes of Holly Johnson, Echo and the Bunnymen, Teardrop Explodes, OMD and Dead or Alive. What do you think it was that attracted so many colourful characters there?

We were all interested in the new kind of music that was being played (punk). We’d all gotten on board with the likes of Yes and Genesis but then we started going to this new club called Eric’s to see these new punk bands. It was quite a fertile time and we were all inspired by the attitude. Now what punk did was enable people with ideas, but without any kind of virtuosity with any kind of musical instrument, to be able to get up on stage and perform. It was more about the attitude and ideas than the technical ability. That particular scene in Eric’s was much like the Sex Pistols effect on Manchester in 1976 when, according to legend, everybody that’s ever been in a band in Manchester saw the Sex Pistols in 1976. As much as I doubt that there were a lot of bands that came out of that scene; Joy Division, Buzzcocks, Mick Hucknall, Morrissey. Lots of people claim to have been there and it inspired them to start a band which is great. After all, isn’t that what making music is about? Being able to inspire other people to do the same?

When you were in one of your earlier bands, Ded Byrds, you were supported at one of your gigs at Eric’s by Joy Division. Do you remember anything about that particular show?

I remember the dressing room at Eric’s being very small and we were all squashed into it, but we didn’t really interact that much because we were all suspicious of each other. I remember Joy Division laughing a lot though and they seemed full of mischief. I also remember Ian Curtis being slightly aloof but I don’t know if that has been coloured by legend. They were friendly enough though and we played a couple of shows with them but when they went on stage they were deadly serious. It was like, “OK you were laughing in the dressing room a couple of moments ago now you are on stage with this really cold kind of stage presence”. It was really interesting.

I’m also intrigued by another of your earlier bands, The Mogadons. In the book, you say it is some of the best music you have ever been a part of?

That is my memory of it but there are no tapes that exist, unfortunately.

There will be a lot of people gutted about that!

Me too! I remember playing some fantastic guitar and being really proud and really pleased with it and the tapes got wiped.

They got sold by a friend?

Yeah my friend Kris. It was his project baby – he was a junkie and needed a fix so he sold the tapes.

Working with Pete Burns sounds like it definitely had its moments – I wouldn’t have liked to get on the wrong side of him! How was your time generally with Dead or Alive, and Pete?

Generally, I have very fond memories of that time apart from the final couple of months. We were a gang, we did not do a lot of gigging but we rehearsed a lot and we tended to go out clubbing together, or we would socially meet around Pete and Lynne’s. The thing about Pete is, yeah he could be nasty but he was never nasty to me. I saw him being nasty to other people though, like really nasty, but at the same time, he was very warm and generous. He was also terribly funny.

He had a bit of a chip on his shoulder about Boy George?

Oh yes, definitely.

I saw the Dead or Alive Razzmatazz appearance and Pete has that big hat and dreadlocks. Did Boy George steal that style from him? It’s very similar to the early Culture Club look he had.

Yes that was Pete’s big bone of contention, he figured that George was kind of copying his look. Basically, Pete used to go down to London and shop at the World’s End Vivienne Westwood store. He would spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds down there on complete outfits and I think George ended up shopping there as did a lot of other people. I even bought a couple of things from there back in the day.

You then joined The Sisters of Mercy in 1983. The recording process for First and Last and Always sounded quite painful. The musical parts were laid down by yourself, Craig and Mark (aka Gary Marx) during the day, while Andrew Eldritch wrote and added his vocals overnight, and the four of you rarely crossed paths?

Well…he was supposed to do the vocals overnight but the problem with Andrew is he takes an inordinate amount of time to write a lyric. They are great lyrics when he writes them and they are multi-levelled as well, he is a very clever man there is no doubt about that, but he does take a long time to do what he does. He was supposed to be writing the lyrics and doing the vocals at night but, well you know, procrastination and all that. But I know what it’s like now, you have to be in the right frame of mind – you have to have the spark before you can write so if that is not there then it is really difficult to kick start it. We all have our little tricks to kick start it but I guess Andrew wasn’t feeling it and would tinker around doing other stuff rather than what he was supposed to be doing.

So how long did it take to record First and Last and Always?

We went into Strawberry Studios in June ’84 and we were kind of hoping to get that finished in one fell swoop but it didn’t happen that way. We ended up going off to New York to do some stuff, and then came back to do some more recording at Genetic, and it just kept going on and on. Andrew became unwell and he just couldn’t finish what he was supposed to be doing. He couldn’t find the lyrics, he couldn’t sing the songs and it took a long time, I think it took until January the following year before the album was finished.

About 6/7 months all up?

Which isn’t that long a time really but when you are scheduled to do it all in the first 6 weeks it did seem like a long time.

Did your record label, WEA, get heavy with you?

They may well have but I didn’t have much of a relationship with them. I was the guitarist in the band I didn’t have to deal with them and they didn’t really come to the studio. Probably Andrew and Dave Allen (Producer) were dealing with them.

Your Producer, Dave Allen, must have had a really rough time of it trying to straddle shifts with you guys recording in the daytime and then Andrew at night?

Yeah again that wasn’t the original intention but that is just the way it ended up being because of the way Andrew preferred to work.

It sounded like Andrew was quite difficult to work with in general, constantly tweaking sounds?

There is nothing wrong with that, in fact, we all do it. You constantly tweak things but you have got to realise at some point you have got to let this go and move on to the next thing.

And moving on to the next thing was a big problem for him?

Well, I look back at that time and I only realised this while I was writing the book, but I think Andrew had relinquished creative control with that album to a degree far more than he had done before and has since. I think that was the main problem. Dave was producing, Mark and I were coming up with the tunes, and Andrew just had to come up with the lyrics. I think again it is something I have learnt over the years with The Mission records, I’ve been in the same situation and it is a realisation now of what Andrew went through that I didn’t realise at the time.

I guess that is what ultimately lead to his ill health?

Yeah, I think some of that was self-induced though. At one point Andrew basically lived in a cupboard in the studio and didn’t leave the studio for five weeks and didn’t see daylight plus the habits that we all had at the time wouldn’t have helped.

I get the impression that you were the main driving force during the recording sessions for First and Last and Always?

I wouldn’t say I was the driving force…more that I was the glue. I was the thing that held it together I think. I came into the band and, I wasn’t aware of it at the time, but the internal relationships within the band were disintegrating. Mark and Andrew had lived together for a long time, and were actually very close at one point. But for whatever reason, when I joined the band they were barely speaking and it just got worse.

You thought some of their problems were due to the fact that Mark knew Andrew before he created the character of “Eldritch”?

I know when The Sisters started it was more or less a joint effort between Mark and Andrew, and they were both working on it like 50/50. But by the time I joined, Andrew had pretty much gained total control of the band, and I think Mark probably felt that the original idea they had had for the band had sold short. I know Andrew had this persona by the time I joined the band, and it wasn’t really what he was like when he first started the band. I heard this from other people as well, when Andrew first started the Eldritch character. That is fine of course, as we all adapt to our circumstances. I guess Mark just saw through it because he was there before Eldritch was created.

Didn’t you compare him to Rigsby from Rising Damp at one point?

(laughs) Well yeah. You listen to this voice which sounds like Darth Vader on record, and then you speak to him and he’s like, “Alright mate, how you doing?”, with a little fag in his mouth.

During the First and Last and Always sessions it sounds like you had a fair bit of spare time, so you had the capacity to tinker around in the studio with various bits of kit. Do you think that is where you honed your musical skills?

Well, I’m still honing truth be told. I think it was another step in the whole process and another learning curve. I know at the end of that album I had nothing left to give, but then time passes and you start playing again and then you get more ideas.

You learned some interesting techniques, like the bassline on A Rock and a Hard Place?

That’s right, I triggered it with a gate so it was in time with the beat. It sounds like a sequencer and Craig played the high bass over the top of that.

Eldritch referred to yourself and Craig as “The Evil Children”. Were you constantly up to no good?

(laughs) You know I look back at this and think of Eldritch as being so much older than us but he is actually a year younger than me… (laughs)

You guys were pretty extreme in your antics though, throwing a hotel wardrobe into a tree and then pissing into a beer barrel which was then drunk by your guests backstage?

(laughs) Also, one thing I realise since writing the book that when I was in The Sisters was the only time in my life where I truly felt cool. Then I thought about it afterwards and we were a right pair of little twats, maybe I associate being cool with someone who is a bit of a twat. (laughs)

It was very rock and roll.

Ha! We had a lot of fun.

Did you ever worry that you’d gone too far with your practical jokes?

Not really, again I think I mentioned in the book the episode where Jez and I set fire to an awning in Italy, and we were lying in bed laughing while we heard the fire engine and police car arriving. It wasn’t a regret or conscience though. Conscience is just the fear of being caught.

I was wondering where that one was going I was like, “Oh god they’re going to end up in jail?!?”

If we’d blown up that car I think I’d still be in Italy now!

Did Eldritch really refuse to travel with you and Craig when you picked up crabs?

(laughs) Of course he did, if it had been him I would have done the same.

Later on Eldritch made you call Mark to give him the sack?

You know that has never come out publically before this book?

This is your way of setting the record straight?

I get a bit of flak from a certain element of The Sisters audience who think the split was all my doing but that wasn’t the case. I guess the story goes it was, “It was Wayne who called Mark and sacked him”.

It was like it was all your doing?

It was only because the other two wouldn’t fucking do it! (laughs)

That must have been a really horrible conversation to have?

Well, they are never pleasant but I’ve never shied away from having to make those decisions or having to deal with tough decisions. Ultimately it comes down to the end justifying the means in a way. The thing is Mark and I didn’t talk for a long time just because we hadn’t seen each other for years. But we do talk on now so you know it’s cool. I can’t say the same for Andrew.

When was your last communication with Andrew? Was it at the end of The Sisters?

I went to see The Sisters after The Mission had been big, probably 1991. At the after-show he told me I was the best guitarist he’d ever worked with which was really nice to hear. I’ve seen him a few times since then but not for getting on for 15-20 years now. I went to see The Sisters in Sao Paulo five or six years ago. I sent George my manager to ask their tour manager if they’d put me on the guestlist for the Sao Paulo show, and got a message back, “No fucking way!”. I did get in though because I knew one of the roadies and he sneaked me in just as the show had started, but I left before the end because it was rubbish.

Wow, that’s pretty heavy.

Not really it’s typical. I mean this is 30 years after we split up for fuck sake, “Why can’t you just let bygones be bygones?”. I think with the book there seems like a lot of dishing the dirt on Andrew but then there’s a lot of dishing the dirt on everybody, myself included. But there is also a real thread of affection and certainly respect.

I definitely get that – there are some cutting points but clearly a lot of respect there too.

When we were good we were fucking great as a band.

Drugs obviously played a big role during your time with The Sisters.

No not at all. (laughs very loudly)

Do you think they are a help or a hindrance in the creative process?

Hmmm…good question. In the actual making/playing of music they are probably a hindrance, however, in the actual writing of music, they probably help. But when you’re actually in a rehearsal room trying to knock a song together as a band, and you’re all speeding your tits off then it becomes a bit of a problem, “It’s a bit fast Mick!”. (laughs)

You also say in the book that drugs lead to The Mission’s demise.

Yes ultimately, the fact that we’re still alive is pretty good though! But it did for our first original line up of myself, Simon and Craig. When we started the band we were all doing speed together and it was sociable. You then drift apart and end up doing different drugs at different times, so you’re in a different headspace. It was difficult to communicate really.

Do you think First and Last and Always would have sounded very different without the drugs?

Absolutely. I think amphetamine is in the DNA of those songs.

Some of them sound quite mechanical.

Yes. The weird thing is Billy Corgan got in touch with me a couple of years ago and he made me listen to First and Last and Always, in its entirety for the first time in about 30 years. I sat down to start playing those songs again, and my immediate reflex was, “I want a line of speed”. And I hadn’t done speed in about 20 years, maybe more, but it was just like, wow, it’s there in the DNA of that record. Thank god we had a drum machine and not a drummer! On a technical level, the way that Craig and I play is always racing against the beat, whereas a drummer tends to always hold it slightly behind the beat. The drum machine kept us right there but we were all right on the edge of it all the time with the speed.

You mention a faction of fans who resented you joining The Sisters because the perception was that you were taking them into a new direction?

Yeah it’s the same with all bands. Take The Cure, for example, there’s a faction of fans who, after however long Jason has been the drummer, still think he is not as good as Boris, and it’s not the same. Of course it isn’t the same because Jason is a different drummer and has a different dynamic. Every band gets it you change the structure and there are always factions that resent that. But that didn’t bother me, I quite enjoyed winding that little lot up (laughs).

You refer to First and Last and Always as a defining moment in your life, and it is certainly one of the key records that defined that period of alternative music. Did you realise how significant it was at the time?

No, none of us did, otherwise, we would have been writing diaries and chronicling it all the way through. But none of us did, you don’t realise the significance of it at the time. No one did.

It’s like art I guess – more significant now than you realise at the time it’s created?

Yeah I mean if you go into making something with that in mind then it is going to make it shit. Or at least contrived.

First and Last and Always reached gold status in 1989 yet you received the gold disc in 2018. Why did it take you so long to receive it?

(laughs) You know the best thing that ever happened to The Sisters of Mercy was The Mission being successful – that was the best promotion The Sisters of Mercy ever had. We ended up selling more First and Last and Always on the back of that than we did on the initial release. But by that point relations were strained with both WEA and Andrew, so we weren’t ever offered a gold disc. We were earning gold discs ourselves with The Mission so weren’t that bothered, but it was just one of those things that came up in conversation a couple of years ago between Craig, George and I, and George said, “I’ll get you one”. Bless him he did.

Where is it now?

It’s in my office full of gold and silver discs. There are around ten discs in total.

What’s been your highest ever selling record?

Worldwide, Carved in Sand, but I think in Britain, it’s Children

It was during your time with The Sisters that you became very close to Billy Duffy and Ian Astbury of The Cult. You must have had some crazy nights out with them?

I don’t remember them being that crazy to be honest but I remember the night I went out with Ian and Lemmy.

That was the Killing Joke gig at the Palais? It sounded like a good night!

Yeah I was with Jimmy Page too, and was given lines of speed by Lemmy so can’t complain about that (laughs)

That was also the night before The Sisters’ Royal Albert Hall show?

(laughs) Yes. God I was really hungover that day, I was rotten.

The Mission song, Blood Brother, has a line referencing your friendship with Ian Astbury. Did you become quite close?

Yes, so after the first Mission tour we were actually supporting the Cult in Europe. It was 1986. Within three months of leaving The Sisters of Mercy we formed the new band, wrote new songs and were out on tour in Europe supporting The Cult.

You were initially called The Sisterhood but Eldrich put a stop to it with a copyright clause?

Yes. That will all be in the second book.

So how was playing at the Albert Hall with that raging hangover?

Well I mean we obviously got the film (laughs).

You nailed it.

Yes, we’re brilliant in it. It sounds and looks great and I remember it being great at the time. It’s one of those things you wake up with a hangover but the best way to deal with is it keep drinking so I did. (laughs)

Is that the one where you had to have a bucket next to you in case you were sick?

Yes. That is the first time I ever had a bucket on stage it was by the side of the monitor. With The Mission though we ended up having sick buckets on both sides of the stage.

For Simon, you and Craig?

Me and Craig really. I remember when we got back together in 1999 and played Shepherd’s Bush. I was so nervous and had been drinking and stuff and needed to throw up. I went into the bathroom in the dressing room and in the cubicle next to me I heard this, “Eeuuurrgghhh”, and I said Craig is that you and he replied, “Yeah” (laughs)

Some thing’s never change!

Yeah although there’s not a lot of vomit these days.

I’m intrigued about the poncho you wore in Royal Albert Hall performance. Was that just a one-off?

(laughs) No you know I have seen photographs and I think actually I wore it in the No Time To Cry video and I definitely wore it on a TV show in Germany. It was a regular piece of attire at the time (laughs)

Your live appearance on the Old Grey Whistle Test seemed slightly fraught?

God yeah. My guitar failed.

I watched it today and the look that you mention in the book where Andrew stares at Mark as if he’s saying, “What the fuck?”

Yeah just as it kicks in and Mark starts playing, and he looks at him as if he’s saying “Oh god!”. We did a soundcheck and it was fine, but just before we were going on air my guitar wasn’t working and we were like, “Fuck, what shall we do? OK I’ll play Mark’s line, Craig you play mine”. We bossed it.

It’s seamless though – you can’t tell.

Well that is the professionals we were (laughs)

Can you pinpoint when the group started to fall apart?

Well, I’d only been in the band a month or six weeks something like that. I was on the bus with Mark and Craig and Mark said, “We want to leave and form a new band do you want to come with us?”. I was like, “Hang on a minute I’ve only just joined!”.

I think the tipping point was when you went over to Germany and started writing the second album?

Yeah, it was just me and Andrew in a flat in Hamburg. It was a dismal time. I had all these ideas that ended up being great Mission tunes but Andrew didn’t want to do any of them. What Andrew had done was really just a drum machine with a bass going “boom boom” and I was like, “What do you want me to do with this?”. He would say, “Well, put a guitar on it and make it good”.

At that point, a lot of the songs you had written for the second Sisters album became tracks on Gods Own Medicine?

Yeah basically I think there were 12 songs, Sacrilege Wasteland, Bridges Burning, Garden of Delight, Serpent’s Kiss, Wake. All of those songs were written for the second Sisters album. I’ve got the demos and am thinking of releasing them at some point

That would be amazing to hear. I’m trying to understand something. Obviously, The Mission is a very different band and you have your own sound, but it’s difficult trying to imagine Eldritch’s vocals on those songs.

With the original demos you could probably hear it easier, but obviously when we started playing with The Mission they evolved and we had real drums as opposed to drum machines. Everything then evolved naturally through just playing as a band.

So would you work with Eldritch again?

Of course, I would.

Do you think there is any chance of it happening?

No! (laughs)

Last time when we spoke you mentioned that you’d met up with Billy Corgan when you were out in the States and had been jamming some Sisters songs. Have you guys met up again since?

No we haven’t but I hear from him every now and then. He is back with the Smashing Pumpkins now and is busy doing that, and we’ve been busy with other things ourselves. I think it was an idea…a little bit of frivolity on our behalf and it was fun. It was nice to hang out with him and get to know him. It was nice to play those songs again. Craig and I enjoyed it so much that we would like to do it again. I don’t know who we could get to sing it but it would be nice to do it.

What can we expect from part two of the autobiography?

Well the intention with the first book was to be from day one to now but I just wrote so much. It was 130,000 words before I had even gotten to The Mission. I sent it to a friend of mine who was a writer and he said: “Do you know what? You should finish this where you leave The Sisters because that in itself is a really good book. You are in all these bands that never quite make it, just a little step up but never quite make it”. Even with The Sisters, at that point, we hadn’t actually had a top 40 but were on the verge of making it before we split up. So I stopped the book there and then. The next book will be all about The Mission.

It’s true actually, it’s almost like you’re leaving people on the edge of their seats.

Yeah but that wasn’t my intention. I mean I could end up being like Winston Churchill’s chronicles or something with four volumes (laughs)

Well I’m sure there is enough material. When do you think that might be released?

I’m not sure, I have got to find the time to write it, I would imagine maybe 2021.

So are you writing any more material at the moment for The Mission or any solo songs?

No, but I am going out on tour very shortly. I’m starting in the middle of August in the UK and its 50+ shows. I start in Nuneaton on the 26th of August and finish in Manchester on the 10th of November.

You’re going to be playing at the Louder than Words Festival as well in Manchester?

I’m going there to be interviewed and to have a question and answer thing with an audience, and then I’ll have an acoustic guitar and might play a couple of songs. It is not going to be a show as such – just a Q&A

John Robb is going to interview you for that?

Yes he is. From writing the book I’ve actually set myself up for a proper couple of heckles, “Winkle? How’s yer winkle?”.

You asked for that one, I loved your explanation of winkle in the book for your international readers. You’re also playing the Goth Festival in Whitby?

Yeah I’m doing something different there. All the other dates are just me solo with Evi Vine supporting and also on stage, but in Whitby, I’m actually doing that with a string quartet and a proper piano player. There will be a selection of Mission songs, a couple of covers. It’s going to be very interesting.

Who are you listening to these days?

My current fave is the Soft Cavalry, Rachel Goswell from Slow Dive and her husband. The album is fantastic and has just come out this weekend actually, I listened to it on Spotify about three to four times – it’s really really great.

I picked up a tip from you actually, I think last time when we spoke you mentioned Cigarettes After Sex. I saw them at the Roadhouse after your recommendation and absolutely loved them.

Yeah that album is fantastic and they’ve exploded. I should have been an A & R man.

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I only ever read two books in my life. The Mission and Steve Gerrard. This is my third and i am very much inthralled reading it at the moment. I didn’t realise this is only Part One, until this interview. Very much look forward to the next Parts…