BT Fault Charges if fault is on customer wiring

This is more out of curiosity since the real fault was actually located
today by the field engineer as external break on the drop leg from the
BT pole to the house so no charge. Strong winds last Friday did for it.
Bad wire replaced and all is well again.

But given the spiel about Â£129.99 callout fee if the fault is inside the
home I wondered what happens if the fault really is internal. Do they
just charge you a straight Â£130 for the repair or is it that plus time
and materials (or do they go away again pocketing your dosh).

Is it relevant that the internal wiring in question was original BT
handiwork dating from the late 1960's? Lozenge shaped screw terminal box
on the incoming windowsill and no recognisable "master socket".

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This is more out of curiosity since the real fault was actually located
today by the field engineer as external break on the drop leg from the
BT pole to the house so no charge. Strong winds last Friday did for it.
Bad wire replaced and all is well again.

But given the spiel about Â£129.99 callout fee if the fault is inside the
home I wondered what happens if the fault really is internal. Do they
just charge you a straight Â£130 for the repair or is it that plus time
and materials (or do they go away again pocketing your dosh).

Is it relevant that the internal wiring in question was original BT
handiwork dating from the late 1960's? Lozenge shaped screw terminal box
on the incoming windowsill and no recognisable "master socket".

Now has a shiny new modern master socket as well for good measure.

Regards,
Martin Brown

Click to expand...

I think it's a standard charge regardless of the work involved.

These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

Certainly the standard charge is made if you ask for relocation of your
master socket. I asked for this in order to prepare for some building
work - the BT technician had to run a new dropwire and drill a hole
through a brick wall, so it took him over half an hour.

For BT the materials cost is trivial - it's all technician time & travel.

I think when ordering it I may have been asked to confirm that the
relocation was within the same building.

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These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

Click to expand...

When did that change? It was always that the master socket was the
demarcation point and anything on the exchange side of that was BT's
responsibility (and therefore not chargeable) and anything the other
side was the subscriber's responsibility.

But given the spiel about Â£129.99 callout fee if the fault is inside the
home I wondered what happens if the fault really is internal. Do they
just charge you a straight Â£130 for the repair or is it that plus time
and materials (or do they go away again pocketing your dosh).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I think it's a standard charge regardless of the work involved.

These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

Click to expand...

I thought it was their responsibility up the the master socket (or
beyond in the event that the entire wiring run is original old GPO).

But given the spiel about Â£129.99 callout fee if the fault is inside the
home I wondered what happens if the fault really is internal. Do they
just charge you a straight Â£130 for the repair or is it that plus time
and materials (or do they go away again pocketing your dosh).

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I think it's a standard charge regardless of the work involved.

These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

Click to expand...

I thought it was their responsibility up the the master socket (or
beyond in the event that the entire wiring run is original old GPO).

(a) Call-outs to repair faults or damage associated with BT's
network services, including any Network, Cabling, Dropwire or
underground feeds within a customer's curtilage up to and including the
Network Terminating Point, and to repair faults in BT on-site equipment
(or to replace such equipment at BT's discretion). "

Martin Brown wrote:
Line went dead remote testing said fault was on customer premises...
[snip]

But given the spiel about Â£129.99 callout fee if the fault is inside
the home I wondered what happens if the fault really is internal. Do
they just charge you a straight Â£130 for the repair or is it that
plus time and materials (or do they go away again pocketing your
dosh).

Click to expand...

I think it's a standard charge regardless of the work involved.

These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

Click to expand...

I thought it was their responsibility up the the master socket (or
beyond in the event that the entire wiring run is original old GPO).

(a) Call-outs to repair faults or damage associated with BT's
network services, including any Network, Cabling, Dropwire or
underground feeds within a customer's curtilage up to and including the
Network Terminating Point, and to repair faults in BT on-site equipment
(or to replace such equipment at BT's discretion). "

Click to expand...

But above that:

â€¢ Full-rate charges - Where the fault is found not to be with any BT
service or equipment. In particular this covers the situation where no
fault is found, or the fault is found to be on non-BT equipment, or is
due to damage caused by someone other than BT or someone at the
customer's premises, or due to theft, loss or removal of equipment, or in
the case of customer owned or rented equipment (but not BT's network)
faults caused by damage by external or environmental factors (e.g.
lightning, electrical surges or floods

These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

Click to expand...

they might try and con you into paying

that certainly isn't the rule and they wouldn't win if they pressed it

On 12/01/2015 15:05, Graham J wrote:
Martin Brown wrote:
Line went dead remote testing said fault was on customer premises...

[snip]

But given the spiel about £129.99 callout fee if the fault is inside
the home I wondered what happens if the fault really is internal. Do
they just charge you a straight £130 for the repair or is it that
plus time and materials (or do they go away again pocketing your
dosh).

I think it's a standard charge regardless of the work involved.

These days if the fault is within the curtilage of your property it's
charged. So if your line break was somewhere along the length of the
dropwire - perhaps where it chafed against a tree on your land - then
potentially you could have been charged.

I thought it was their responsibility up the the master socket (or
beyond in the event that the entire wiring run is original old GPO).

(a) Call-outs to repair faults or damage associated with BT's
network services, including any Network, Cabling, Dropwire or
underground feeds within a customer's curtilage up to and including the
Network Terminating Point, and to repair faults in BT on-site equipment
(or to replace such equipment at BT's discretion). "

Click to expand...

But above that:

• Full-rate charges - Where the fault is found not to be with any BT
service or equipment. In particular this covers the situation where no
fault is found, or the fault is found to be on non-BT equipment, or is
due to damage caused by someone other than BT or someone at the
customer's premises, or due to theft, loss or removal of equipment, or in
the case of customer owned or rented equipment (but not BT's network)
faults caused by damage by external or environmental factors (e.g.
lightning, electrical surges or floods

Click to expand...

An intermittent fault on their side is often diagnosed as no fault
found in the first instance.
Can they bill you for that? (Rhetorical)

When did that change? It was always that the master socket was the
demarcation point and anything on the exchange side of that was BT's
responsibility (and therefore not chargeable) and anything the other
side was the subscriber's responsibility.

Click to expand...

Still works that way - I recently had a charge quashed when I pointed
that out to them - the fault was in my premises, and even on a cable I
had provided (I was wiring the house with cat5e anyway, so put in a
cable from where the old line came in [the lozenge] to where I needed
the master socket to be, left bare at both ends), but it had been used
by the original installation engineer when the line was first
installed, and it was the joints he made that were faulty.
After they initially raised a charge, I contested it and pointed out
the reason, which openreach accepted. Their joint, their problem.
If it hadn't been their joint, I'd have fixed it myself anyway.

As it is in the end users garden surely they should endeavor to make
sure that the tree is cut back/pruned in order to not damage their service?

Click to expand...

Sounds logical. However, what if the pruning operation also succeeds in
bringing the line down?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Sounds logical. However, what if the pruning operation also succeeds in
bringing the line down?
--
Cheers,
Roger
____________
Please reply to Newsgroup. Whilst email address is valid, it is seldom
checked.

Click to expand...

Exactly the same as if you're pruning any plants on your wall and cut thru
your leadin.

As it is in the end users garden surely they should endeavor to make
sure that the tree is cut back/pruned in order to not damage their service?

Click to expand...

Actually it became a bit more interesting. The initial repair lasted
about a fortnight and then failed spectacularly when I rang the number.
I got normal "ring ring" a couple of times and then a huge burst of loud
static followed by nothing. Attempts after that got engaged tone.

They have been round to fix it, but the dalek tester claimed it was a
fault on customer premises even though it wasn't. The dalek also says it
doesn't work if the line is off hook so not sure the test was valid.

Actually it became a bit more interesting. The initial repair lasted about
a fortnight and then failed spectacularly when I rang the number. I got
normal "ring ring" a couple of times and then a huge burst of loud static
followed by nothing. Attempts after that got engaged tone.

They have been round to fix it, but the dalek tester claimed it was a
fault on customer premises even though it wasn't. The dalek also says it
doesn't work if the line is off hook so not sure the test was valid.

The house phone had no dial tone and the line was shorted somewhere.

Click to expand...

You had what is know as a 'rectified loop' caused (probably) by some
corrosion on the line. A bugger to find if it's not in the usual places but
can't be counted as a chargeable visit until afterwards, when the location
has been found and the fault corrected or (what normally happens nowadays)
the line gets swapped to another pair.

You had what is know as a 'rectified loop' caused (probably) by some
corrosion on the line. A bugger to find if it's not in the usual places
but can't be counted as a chargeable visit until afterwards, when the
location has been found and the fault corrected or (what normally
happens nowadays) the line gets swapped to another pair.

Click to expand...

These are old 1960's era installed residual overhead lines in an urban
setting - am I right in supposing that they could be chasing this
dragon's tail essentially forever since every disturbance they make for
repairs may accelerate failure of the next weakest link in the chain.

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