We did start the ball rolling for 9/11/01. However it started in the 60's in Egypt, the 70's in Saudia Arabia, Iraq in the 80's, which then lead to even more amplification in Iran in the 80's, while we also intervened in Afghanistan to get rid of the Russians, which lead to the Taliban and the Pakistani's entrenchment of relations with groups like the Hakani Network. They kept trying in the 90's, and even scored two hits, ineffectually on the twin towers, but effectively with the bombs on the Cole and the Kobar Towers/Embassy.

The US's policies and our reckless abandon for interfering with everyone, set up the circumstances, that were then intercepted, passed through the chain of command in the Bush administration at least a month before the attack took place, and then failed to be acted upon. Ironically happened on the day, a new security chief arrived for work at the Twin towers having left his previous post as nobody was listening to his warnings about the seriousness of the threat to the towers and NORAD was doing a drill simulating such an attack, and as such didn't react to the situation as they initially thought the reports were simply part of the drill.

The White House's policy initiatives and the congress's panic, and the Judiciary's rubber stamps during the years from 1/21/2001 to 1/20/2009 were not the things that made America fall apart, that was the previous 50 years of interventionist weakening of what America claimed to have stood for, but what those 8 years did was take out the final supports and removed the facade that everyone wanted to believe in. Like when the lightening bolt struck butter Jesus, and after the conflagration all that was left was the "terminator" endoskeleton, such was what America looked like 1/20/2009.

Financially, Constitutionally, Internationally, and Morally, America was bankrupt in all aspects. The Republicans drove it, and the Democrats allowed it, and now we are reaping what we sowed, and the harvest is bitter, and non-satisfying.

The new whitehouse has reversed course in almost every possible way from the 50 year momentum that lead to our disastrous plights in 2001, 2003, 2007, 2008 and 2009. Not without a fight from everyone of course, because change is hard, and people are inclined to fight change, with cognitive dissonance, innoculation theory, ethnocentrism, bureacratic inertia, misinformation, corruption, and even ideological/religious reasoning left over from those previous times.

Can the US make the transition from Hegemonic Interventionist Superpower, to self-sufficient leadership. Can it go from preaching what itself doesn't follow, and instead is able to lead by example. Can it find its way in the 21st century, where jobs are less important, where technology can do so much more to offset differences. When the balance between wealth and humanity, power and performance can be equalized simply with a few keystrokes and access to the right computers and networks.

This is the future, and if we can't learn this, then this century will be as all of the doomsayers say, more war, more misery, more strife, less life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness/property and instead more just surviving "walking dead" style.If we can learn it, and discard the past, and embrace the new, and change the conceptualization of the status quo, and implement the existing technologies, then almost all of the negative predictions can be averted. We need to invest in the change process, and work hard for 12 years, with nearly 4 million more high wage, high intellect, high value jobs, pulling the first the US, then Europe and then the BRICs and then the rest of the world out of the hole.

Water, Energy, Food, Information and the distributive networks to equalize access and to make everything fungible is where humanity can be finally free from the past, and hopefully pursue a path that leads humanity into the solar system and beyond before the next century comes to a close.

gh0strid3r:Asa Phelps: What a waste of money. No such system has ever had more true positives than false positives.

So what you're saying is... if something doesn't work 100% on the first try, we should quit trying?

How about when that something includes the possibility of you being detained or imprisoned because of it?You don't take people out of the loop. Someone has to take the blame when things don't quite reach 100% and it's not going to be "the computer."

Acravius:Can the US make the transition from Hegemonic Interventionist Superpower, to self-sufficient leadership. Can it go from preaching what itself doesn't follow, and instead is able to lead by example. Can it find its way in the 21st century, where jobs are less important, where technology can do so much more to offset differences. When the balance between wealth and humanity, power and performance can be equalized simply with a few keystrokes and access to the right computers and networks.

As long as the ignorant knuckle-draggers continue to blindly vote for politicians who support the US as being the "Hegemonic Interventionist Superpower," (because, America, FARK YEAH!) things will never change.

And of course, part of the problem is all the toadying, simpering governments of other countries that fall over each other to kiss the US butt, rather than doing the right thing and telling the US where to stick their "farren palsy".

Everyone knows they have had this on that show 'VEGAS' for a long time and it works perfectly every time even if someone is much older or is wearing a disguise or was only seen in the reflection of a taxi cab's window.If one casino in Vegas can have it, the whole country should!

JerkyMeat:The U.S. government benefited the most by 911 in all aspects and with this fact and mountains of other facts that have been marginalized by most as "truther" nonsense, 911 was most likely planned by the powerful in the U.S. for this benefit. This rollout by the FBI is just another example of the benefit of the federal power grab "justified" by a so called terrorist attack.

Yeah, it's not like anyone could get away with crimes by using makeup (See "Devil in the White City", Erick Larson, a great book). This is truly a waste of money. I live about 10 miles as the crow flies from the FBI and DEA headquarters in Quantico. I get my summers off (wonder why?). We had a drone fly a circular route right over our little farmette virtually every single day. My assumption was that somebody was getting trained at getting good at the video games that now constitute our military. This might lead to fewer prosthetics down the road, and this is bad for the prosthetics industry. So, why do the FBI and DEA hate the prosthetics industry so much?

Acravius:We did start the ball rolling for 9/11/01. However it started in the 60's in Egypt, the 70's in Saudia Arabia, Iraq in the 80's, which then lead to even more amplification in Iran in the 80's, while we also intervened in Afghanistan to get rid of the Russians, which lead to the Taliban and the Pakistani's entrenchment of relations with groups like the Hakani Network. They kept trying in the 90's, and even scored two hits, ineffectually on the twin towers, but effectively with the bombs on the Cole and the Kobar Towers/Embassy.

The US's policies and our reckless abandon for interfering with everyone, set up the circumstances, that were then intercepted, passed through the chain of command in the Bush administration at least a month before the attack took place, and then failed to be acted upon. Ironically happened on the day, a new security chief arrived for work at the Twin towers having left his previous post as nobody was listening to his warnings about the seriousness of the threat to the towers and NORAD was doing a drill simulating such an attack, and as such didn't react to the situation as they initially thought the reports were simply part of the drill.

The White House's policy initiatives and the congress's panic, and the Judiciary's rubber stamps during the years from 1/21/2001 to 1/20/2009 were not the things that made America fall apart, that was the previous 50 years of interventionist weakening of what America claimed to have stood for, but what those 8 years did was take out the final supports and removed the facade that everyone wanted to believe in. Like when the lightening bolt struck butter Jesus, and after the conflagration all that was left was the "terminator" endoskeleton, such was what America looked like 1/20/2009.

Financially, Constitutionally, Internationally, and Morally, America was bankrupt in all aspects. The Republicans drove it, and the Democrats allowed it, and now we are reaping what we sowed, and the harvest is bitter, and non- ...

Where is the "intelligent" tab - this is a fairly accurate description of recent US history in the middle east, you forgot to mention it started in (circa 1953, dates confuse me) when we killed the popular Iranian leader because, gasp, he was trying to make nice nice with his neighbor, the angry giant CCCP. Only thing you are missing is how the roughly 200 or so very wealthy family entities have been attempting to corner the market on wealth and happiness world-wide.

Lt. Cheese Weasel:JerkyMeat: The U.S. government benefited the most by 911 in all aspects and with this fact and mountains of other facts that have been marginalized by most as "truther" nonsense, 911 was most likely planned by the powerful in the U.S. for this benefit. This rollout by the FBI is just another example of the benefit of the federal power grab "justified" by a so called terrorist attack. [up-ship.com image 535x356]

If you read his profile he pretty much admits he's just what you say he is.

webthing01:Work your ass off for the controllers. Or be eliminated. That's what it comes down to.

You are on notice now "You are now an enemy of the state"

Hanging out with a bunch of dissaffected burnouts who think there is a place at political protests for Molotov cocktails isn't helping your case./I have had personal experience for not wanting anything to do with radicals

Makh:It's crap like this that makes me sick. We go over this time and time again.

So far, so good - catching criminals faster and making less false arrests must be a good thing, right?

They should have said 'fewer' instead of less. Absolutely appalling what they did there. Loss of freedom is pretty bad too. But this, this is uncalled for.

To those of us outside of your little anarchist cell, please explain how this is a loss of liberty. You know because you're so so much smarter than the rest of us sheeple, we need such "obivious" things explained to us by some potentially mentally ill dude living out on the fringe of society with the rest of the dregs.

tkwasny:The history of mans behavior is key to understanding its future.

Once a power to manipulate and control people is available (just available, thats all thats needed) man will devise a way to to separate those with access and power from those that do not. What happens next to those cast out is the string of horrors throughout history.

Go ahead and argue the "but if they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about" side. I dare you.

And yet I bet you put all your shiat online for the whole world to see, and complain when Uncle Sam gathers data on you.

Day_Old_Dutchie:Acravius: Can the US make the transition from Hegemonic Interventionist Superpower, to self-sufficient leadership. Can it go from preaching what itself doesn't follow, and instead is able to lead by example. Can it find its way in the 21st century, where jobs are less important, where technology can do so much more to offset differences. When the balance between wealth and humanity, power and performance can be equalized simply with a few keystrokes and access to the right computers and networks.

As long as the ignorant knuckle-draggers continue to blindly vote for politicians who support the US as being the "Hegemonic Interventionist Superpower," (because, America, FARK YEAH!) things will never change.

And of course, part of the problem is all the toadying, simpering governments of other countries that fall over each other to kiss the US butt, rather than doing the right thing and telling the US where to stick their "farren palsy".

The bolded portions are a clue to you not to take anything this person says seriously. Bear in mind when I was fresh out of college and more than happy to use any flimsy excuse to criticize people I didn't like, I was very guilty of this.

Crotchrocket Slim:tkwasny: The history of mans behavior is key to understanding its future.

Once a power to manipulate and control people is available (just available, thats all thats needed) man will devise a way to to separate those with access and power from those that do not. What happens next to those cast out is the string of horrors throughout history.

Go ahead and argue the "but if they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about" side. I dare you.

And yet I bet you put all your shiat online for the whole world to see, and complain when Uncle Sam gathers data on you.

I worry way more about the data miners that are not federal government data miners but my hands are clean of any subversive behavior. Have had an FBI file on me since 1969, the year I graduated from college and went to work for the summer as a clerk typist. Probably was before that (my dad had the highest security clearance possible back in those days (Pentagon GS-15 type). My dad lost that security clearance (got one a bit below tho') because my oldest sister went a little bat shiat crazy after she got gonarrhea (sp?) from her husband while in Columbia in the Peace Corp and he was sleeping with prostitutes because of his problem with premature ejaculation. Caused her to become sterile among other things.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Just another Heartland Weirdass: No one gets outraged about this stuff anymore, sorry subby.

So many oligarch defender bots in this thread...

Tracking everyone's movements at all times in the hope that a criminal might be caught is not by any definition a "reasonable" act.

I don't think you're taking account the processor and memory resources that would be involved in that. Actually I don't think you've ever used a computer for anything more than trolling the internet, gaming, and maybe streaming Redtube.

MartinD-35:Crotchrocket Slim: tkwasny: The history of mans behavior is key to understanding its future.

Once a power to manipulate and control people is available (just available, thats all thats needed) man will devise a way to to separate those with access and power from those that do not. What happens next to those cast out is the string of horrors throughout history.

Go ahead and argue the "but if they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about" side. I dare you.

And yet I bet you put all your shiat online for the whole world to see, and complain when Uncle Sam gathers data on you.

I worry way more about the data miners that are not federal government data miners but my hands are clean of any subversive behavior. Have had an FBI file on me since 1969, the year I graduated from college and went to work for the summer as a clerk typist. Probably was before that (my dad had the highest security clearance possible back in those days (Pentagon GS-15 type). My dad lost that security clearance (got one a bit below tho') because my oldest sister went a little bat shiat crazy after she got gonarrhea (sp?) from her husband while in Columbia in the Peace Corp and he was sleeping with prostitutes because of his problem with premature ejaculation. Caused her to become sterile among other things.

That utterly sucks and thank you for having a reasonable objection to this sort of thing that is actually grounded in reality.

Crotchrocket Slim:BraveNewCheneyWorld: Just another Heartland Weirdass: No one gets outraged about this stuff anymore, sorry subby.

So many oligarch defender bots in this thread...

Tracking everyone's movements at all times in the hope that a criminal might be caught is not by any definition a "reasonable" act.

I don't think you're taking account the processor and memory resources that would be involved in that. Actually I don't think you've ever used a computer for anything more than trolling the internet, gaming, and maybe streaming Redtube.

By your logic, once we have something that can do the equivalent of an MRI on someone's entire house as police cars drive through the neighborhood, it's entirely reasonable, as long as we can manufacture them inexpensively. You should read the bill of rights someday.

BraveNewCheneyWorld:Crotchrocket Slim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Just another Heartland Weirdass: No one gets outraged about this stuff anymore, sorry subby.

So many oligarch defender bots in this thread...

Tracking everyone's movements at all times in the hope that a criminal might be caught is not by any definition a "reasonable" act.

I don't think you're taking account the processor and memory resources that would be involved in that. Actually I don't think you've ever used a computer for anything more than trolling the internet, gaming, and maybe streaming Redtube.

By your logic, once we have something that can do the equivalent of an MRI on someone's entire house as police cars drive through the neighborhood, it's entirely reasonable, as long as we can manufacture them inexpensively. You should read the bill of rights someday.

Crotchrocket Slim:BraveNewCheneyWorld: Crotchrocket Slim: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Just another Heartland Weirdass: No one gets outraged about this stuff anymore, sorry subby.

So many oligarch defender bots in this thread...

Tracking everyone's movements at all times in the hope that a criminal might be caught is not by any definition a "reasonable" act.

I don't think you're taking account the processor and memory resources that would be involved in that. Actually I don't think you've ever used a computer for anything more than trolling the internet, gaming, and maybe streaming Redtube.

By your logic, once we have something that can do the equivalent of an MRI on someone's entire house as police cars drive through the neighborhood, it's entirely reasonable, as long as we can manufacture them inexpensively. You should read the bill of rights someday.

You utterly fail at understanding both technology and Due Process.

From my original link "Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation"

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Crotchrocket Slim:MartinD-35: Crotchrocket Slim: tkwasny: The history of mans behavior is key to understanding its future.

Once a power to manipulate and control people is available (just available, thats all thats needed) man will devise a way to to separate those with access and power from those that do not. What happens next to those cast out is the string of horrors throughout history.

Go ahead and argue the "but if they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about" side. I dare you.

And yet I bet you put all your shiat online for the whole world to see, and complain when Uncle Sam gathers data on you.

I worry way more about the data miners that are not federal government data miners but my hands are clean of any subversive behavior. Have had an FBI file on me since 1969, the year I graduated from college and went to work for the summer as a clerk typist. Probably was before that (my dad had the highest security clearance possible back in those days (Pentagon GS-15 type). My dad lost that security clearance (got one a bit below tho') because my oldest sister went a little bat shiat crazy after she got gonarrhea (sp?) from her husband while in Columbia in the Peace Corp and he was sleeping with prostitutes because of his problem with premature ejaculation. Caused her to become sterile among other things.

That utterly sucks and thank you for having a reasonable objection to this sort of thing that is actually grounded in reality.

I've been tempted to put a few parabolic mirrors around the property and have my step son (computer genius) program them for me to stalk the drones. But tempted is all I've been since I don't want to go to Ft. Levenworth (sp?) and be bukakatated. I didn't have to give an "interview" to the FBI when a friend of mine was being vetted. They said to me "you have an interesting file, we had to check ahead of the interview." I asked what was so interesting and they wouldn't tell me. I was an anti-Vietnam war but never protested other than doing door to door and canvassing what people in my small midwestern city though of the war on the day the truly caring were having their march on the Pentagon in 1969. Might have had something to do with the college being near Madison, WI (but not in) and also with my various experiments with flying.

Example: right now the authorities have and use FLIR- infrared technologies that record hotspots in your home. This can be useful for the authorities in detecting poorly hidden marijuana grow ops, but at the same time there are many, many other entirely innocuous things that could also account for such hotspots. The only time FLIR telemetry is useful to law enforcement is when they have other evidence to check out your home and are trying to further round out a search warrant.

A further explanation as to why maybe you should be smoking less dank stuff, and maybe be hooking me up with your dealers' contact info.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Crotchrocket Slim:Example: right now the authorities have and use FLIR- infrared technologies that record hotspots in your home. This can be useful for the authorities in detecting poorly hidden marijuana grow ops, but at the same time there are many, many other entirely innocuous things that could also account for such hotspots. The only time FLIR telemetry is useful to law enforcement is when they have other evidence to check out your home and are trying to further round out a search warrant.

A further explanation as to why maybe you should be smoking less dank stuff, and maybe be hooking me up with your dealers' contact info.

My brother was the ambassador (well, charge de affairs (sp)) of a rogue asian country in the early 1990's. I was managing a computer network at the time for a leftish sort of law firm (represented the alternative energy industry, native Americans, and that sort of ilk, very public interest sort of low paying kinda law firm). he told me that the computers in his office all had lead shielding to prevent just the sort of thing you are describing. It sounds paranoid, but it's not. You can, indeed, beem into the average person's computer and read the contents of their hard drive, registrar, etc. (everything). So, don't advocate the downfall of the US government stupid people because . . .

MartinD-35:Crotchrocket Slim: Example: right now the authorities have and use FLIR- infrared technologies that record hotspots in your home. This can be useful for the authorities in detecting poorly hidden marijuana grow ops, but at the same time there are many, many other entirely innocuous things that could also account for such hotspots. The only time FLIR telemetry is useful to law enforcement is when they have other evidence to check out your home and are trying to further round out a search warrant.

A further explanation as to why maybe you should be smoking less dank stuff, and maybe be hooking me up with your dealers' contact info.

My brother was the ambassador (well, charge de affairs (sp)) of a rogue asian country in the early 1990's. I was managing a computer network at the time for a leftish sort of law firm (represented the alternative energy industry, native Americans, and that sort of ilk, very public interest sort of low paying kinda law firm). he told me that the computers in his office all had lead shielding to prevent just the sort of thing you are describing. It sounds paranoid, but it's not. You can, indeed, beem into the average person's computer and read the contents of their hard drive, registrar, etc. (everything). So, don't advocate the downfall of the US government stupid people because . . .

Oh, and fore the record, there was no ambassador as he had been rejected by said country and we didn't name a replacement because that's what we do when you reject our choice of ambassador (Jessie Helms giggity gig thingy).

MartinD-35:Crotchrocket Slim: MartinD-35: Crotchrocket Slim: tkwasny: The history of mans behavior is key to understanding its future.

Once a power to manipulate and control people is available (just available, thats all thats needed) man will devise a way to to separate those with access and power from those that do not. What happens next to those cast out is the string of horrors throughout history.

Go ahead and argue the "but if they did nothing wrong, they have nothing to worry about" side. I dare you.

And yet I bet you put all your shiat online for the whole world to see, and complain when Uncle Sam gathers data on you.

I worry way more about the data miners that are not federal government data miners but my hands are clean of any subversive behavior. Have had an FBI file on me since 1969, the year I graduated from college and went to work for the summer as a clerk typist. Probably was before that (my dad had the highest security clearance possible back in those days (Pentagon GS-15 type). My dad lost that security clearance (got one a bit below tho') because my oldest sister went a little bat shiat crazy after she got gonarrhea (sp?) from her husband while in Columbia in the Peace Corp and he was sleeping with prostitutes because of his problem with premature ejaculation. Caused her to become sterile among other things.

That utterly sucks and thank you for having a reasonable objection to this sort of thing that is actually grounded in reality.

I've been tempted to put a few parabolic mirrors around the property and have my step son (computer genius) program them for me to stalk the drones. But tempted is all I've been since I don't want to go to Ft. Levenworth (sp?) and be bukakatated. I didn't have to give an "interview" to the FBI when a friend of mine was being vetted. They said to me "you have an interesting file, we had to check ahead of the interview." I asked what was so interesting and they wouldn't tell me. I was an anti-Vietnam war but never pr ...

I have a good friend from college who still associates with political radicals. Most are smart enough not to engage in terrorism while engaging in civil disobedience, some were not especially critical thinkers and duped into bringing/attempting to bring Molotovs to the 2008 RNC after the encouragement of a confidential informant who felt pressured into acting as agent provocateur just to further avoid prosecution for his own semi-criminal trespassing.

I'm sure I'd have similar issues attempting to get a security clearance, and the authorities wouldn't be wrong in at least taking a closer look at me in the very least. I come down on people with "fringe" politics who display a lack of critical thinking themselves for very personal (and I consider good) reason.

Crotchrocket Slim:BraveNewCheneyWorld: From my original link "Twenty-Five Rules of Disinformation"

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Sometimes ridicule is well earned, like here.

Because unlike you, I understand that technology and manufacturing capacity increase as time moves forward, or because I believe that surveilling a population with the same level of attention without probable cause on the level of the Stasi is in itself a violation of what is "reasonable"? Maybe you'd care to present an argument along with your ad hominem attacks.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Sometimes ridicule is well earned, like here.

Because unlike you, I understand that technology and manufacturing capacity increase as time moves forward, or because I believe that surveilling a population with the same level of attention without probable cause on the level of the Stasi is in itself a violation of what is "reasonable"? Maybe you'd care to present an argument along with your ad hominem attacks.

I'm telling you that you clearly don't understand how the authorities act with such information, and that were they to attempt to do what you are suggesting they would need to expand the NSA etc. staff to such a degree to the hundreds of thousands; such a scenario is not realistic and instead of pooping on the discussion with unrealistic doomsday scenarios you should educate yourself better on how the US goverment and other bodies within the US act. I'm attempting to call you out on your slipper slope fallacy here.

Also, you yourself are engaging in your own ad hominem attacks against me in quoting that link and you don't even realize it.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Sometimes ridicule is well earned, like here.

Because unlike you, I understand that technology and manufacturing capacity increase as time moves forward, or because I believe that surveilling a population with the same level of attention without probable cause on the level of the Stasi is in itself a violation of what is "reasonable"? Maybe you'd care to present an argument along with your ad hominem attacks.

I read a book this summer (history teacher and history buff) that you need to read. It's a simple enough title for you to understand "1877" (subtitled "America's Year of Living Violently") by Michael A. Bellesiles. Could possibly give you some additional insight into the fallacy of your argument. It's what you do with that information (republicon's, abuse it) (democrats, use it wisely to prevent terrorism). I'm pretty far left of the average Democrat (green party but not a vote waster).