Word of the Day – Couple Special – “was für”

and welcome to our German Word of the Day. Knowing a word is helpful if you want to speak a language. More helpful than, say, knowing Einsteins Third Law of Successful Time travel (buy Einsteins fascinating book, that will have been going to have changed the whole world, on Amazon here). However, sometimes one words isn’t enough to get the job done. Sometimes you need 2 words, 2 dedicated, passionate words. 2 words that put their ass on the line to seal the deal for you. 2 words like the ones we will look at today:

Was für is a quite useful combination. Maybe not as common as entweder oder but useful, nonetheless. We have the parts was (what) and für (for)and together they basically mean what kindor simply what.Here’s an example straight from the bar I’m working at.

Oh boy, I’m working as a bartender and waiter and this question comes way too often. Please please, don’t just order “A tea” in a bar or restaurant. There is no such thing as a default tea in Germany and wait staff will be really annoyed. Instead, ask

Now, there is another word in German that is pretty similar: welche/r/m/n/s and I can imagine that there are languages out there where there is just one translation for both words. So what is the difference between was fürand welche?Welche is asking for one or more specific items out of a pool of choices. Like the English which.

In German you need to have an article there … so either eine/r/n/m/s (depending on the case and the gender) or welche for plural… so there is a difference between welche and was für welche

In diesem Wald gibt es viele Pilze. Aber was fürwelche….

There are many mushrooms in this forest, but what kind…

So… all this is certainly nice to know but that alone wouldn’t really justify a Word of the Day… I mean we’ve discussed doch and schon here after all :). But there is something about was für that makes it very confusing if you’re not used to it: it can split up. That’s right. Our Words aren’t actually really married… ohhhhh… Here are some examples.

This is something I often ask my girlfriend when I am making a tea for myself and she wants one too. Now technically she does know which teas I have at home so based on what I have said earlier I should use which. But for one, which always sounds a bit too official for those kinds of questions. I would really only use it if I had 3 different teas lined up on the table for her to see. And secondly, having the was and fürseparated does change the tone … it is more broad maybe.

The last sentence is a good example for what can be tricky about was füreven if you know it…. the 2 parts can be placed really far apart. Was starts the sentence and fürcomes right before the noun. Here is an example that has a nice flow in German :)

So go ahead and try it out if you want to sound really like a native speaker. But remember to say the für part… you cannot simply leave it out, no matter how long your sentence is. Every German will immediately notice that .

That sounds REALLY strange and wrong and honestly… I am not sure if I would even understand what you are asking. So maybe stick with the combined version :). And then, there is one context where you can’t split it… whenever was für is part of a prepositional phrase… yeah… I know… jarrrrrrgon

This is what I mean. Was für is inside a box that starts with a preposition. But enough with the grammar. There is one more meaning of was fürthat we need to talk about before we wrap up.The translation is again … what… or rather what a.

Just by changing the way you say it the meaning changes from “I don’t know what kind” to “I am impressed by them”… you don’t even have to use und… you can leave aber, too.

So, in these kind of exclamations “Oh what a…”, was für is the way to go. There is also welch ein, but this is more for books maybe. And now that I think of it welch ein sounds a bit positive while was für is kind of neutral…

But please please please… this is not to be taken as a rule. It is just a slight difference. That’s all. And speaking of that’s all… that’s actually all for today. Already. This was our Words not (yet) married and in Love feel good special for today with was für.What a long title.And if you ask yourself now “But hey, can I change the order and say für was instead?” then I say, no. I mean you can but then you sound like you want to say wofür but still have to brush up on the whole wo-da-thing in German. But I can help. Here’s how it works. Instead of was in was für, we say wo, which looks like who but it means where, which looks like wer but it actually the translation of wo, except for if wo is part of wofürbecause then it means waswhich is what and wofür is… what for/for what?Glad we got to talk about that :). But seriously.. that’s it for today. If you have questions (that do not concern the last part) or suggestions just leave me a comment. I hope you liked it and see you next time.

Oh, if you’d like to practice using “was für” a bit and see more examples… Jenny from German with Jenny has you covered here :)

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Anonymous

How do you know when to put an article with was fuer? Ex.1 – Was fuer ein schoener Schmetterling. Ex 2 – “Ok. Was für Tee?” And…I just feel like after fuer the masculine noun should take akkusative article ‘einen’. “Was fuer einEN schoenen Schmetterling. ??

That is a bit hard to say. If you are asking for the kind of one single item, then you should use eine/n/r/s and if you’re asking for an unspecified number of items then use no article (because there is no plural of the indefinite article)… however, in spoken and I think only for uncountable things like tea or ice cream or stuff like that people do skip the article… why? I don’t really know. So I’d say just put the article there. That will always be fine, whereas leaving it out works only sometimes and if you drop it in a situation where you should not drop it, that sounds really wrong (was für Auto hast du?)

Question 2 – which case follows.

That has nothing to do with für. Don’t think of für as a preposition here. Think of was für as a question word that can be split up. The case depends fully on the function the item has in the sentence.

So the bear is saying the first version here. This exclamation is quite common.

Hope that helps and thanks again for asking. That was important stuff :)

Reply

Helmut

Hello, I’m a bit confused of how to use this in the genitive case….like in your last example with the butterfly wing. I want to translate this as “what kind of of (use “of” twice simply because “was fuer” meants “what kind” and genitive does nearly the same thing I feel like….So, “what kind of beautiful butterfly’s wing do you have in the hand? The was fuer sounds to me like this translates to “what kind of of beautiful…..”

This goes along with my first question above: “with what kind of sauce.” could you say mit was fuer Sosse? or, no, because you must have an article? Again, this just sounds like you are repeating yourself saying “with what kind of of sauce.” Saying “of” twice..

On second thought I have to add, that I think I (when I am waiting tables) skip the article in this specific restaurant context to show my … well… dislike of the order … so much for the famous Berlin rudeness of wait-staff ;). Without the article it sounds less friendly. Anyway, in this example it is totally fine though:

“Was habt ihr für Bier?” because I can’t put an article there as I am asking for a plural…

Reply

John Hoering

Thanks for doing this. The ‘word of the day’ is a great learning tool.

Thanks a lot :). I checked out yours and you do have some great links there… and I like your writing. It is very colorful and a bit poetic at times. If that is what your native language is like then certainly there must be really nice novels and poems. Is it Russian by any chance?

Reply

M_Hodzhova

It’s Bulgarian :) Which is similar to Russian. Thank you for your comment on my writing! I like your blog too. It seems very useful.

Reply

core

I’m starting to get a hang of this blog. Liking it for developing my German skills too! Welch ein eselbruecke =)

Great article yet again. I had been wondering what the difference was between welch ein and was für.

The one thing I’m not completely clear on is the plural usage of was für to mean “what (a).” You mean it doesn’t work well with plural in English. It does work, its just you will almost never hear someone say it without an adjective. For example you translated your one example as “what a shitty weather” but we would actually just say “what shitty weather.” Weather is uncountable like Wasser. So you used this mushroom example and I’m thinking of something like where a woman says “I just bought new shoes” and someone were to respond “what beautiful shoes!” (this is what a meant by we used “what” with plural but almost always have a qualifying adjective). How would this be phrased using was für (welche)?

One last thing: for your mushroom example, using was für welche at the end of the sentence like that to imply a longer train of thought, this can work in English too. We would say something like: There are a lot of mushrooms in the forest, and what (beautiful, big, etc.) mushrooms they are! Again we normally have a qualifying adjective in there so the speaker’s opinion of the mushrooms is obvious when used for plural nouns.

Oh thanks for the corrections :)… I am always walking on thin ice, as we say in German, when I talk about what works and what doesn’t work in English. Anyway… so I thought about your questions and got more and more confused because with all the possible configurations. But finally I have to say, that I was wrong in the post… it does work for plural also with *was für* in front…. I’ll just list all the combinations before I get confused again:

– Welch Schuhe : sounds admiring and a little dated – Welch schöne Schuhe : admiring, high language, not dated but a little aristocratic, don’t use it when you are on a construction site.

– Was für Schuhe : ambiguous, could mean “what shoes” as in I don’t know which shoes you are talking about but als admiring or disliking them… depending on how it is said. – was für schöne Schuhe : is clear and this is how most people would say it.

And then the article can also be skipped in German (hadn’t thought of that before)

Was für Wetter : ambiguous, just as the shoe one… Was für ein Wetter: probably negative but ultimately depends on how it is said Was für ein Scheißwetter: this is what people say all the time, unless it is 25 degrees with some clouds and just very little wind… I’m kidding, but people complain about any weather here pretty much (zu kalt, zu warm, zu viel Regen, zu schwül, Sonne blendet, zu nass, zu grau…)

Reply

Joe

Ha glad I’m keeping you on your toes! And thanks for the very clear reply. I don’t think I could ask for more detail than that. So it sounds like English and German are very similar here and I’m glad to hear that for once!

Hi, i have a German grammar book (for Finns) that claims that ‘was für ein’ can not be used with abstract words nor with words of material…? and it’s driving me nuts. My German husband says it’s ok to say: Was für eine Vorstellung!( abstract when meaning imagination). Also, one could easily say: Was für ein Wasser. Or not? Any comments on this? Thanks!

Maybe it’s not the most poetic way but that’s how people talk. Same for abstract things

– Was für ein Problem ist das genau?

“Problem” is abstract and still “was für” is used. Same with “Idee” and I see nothing wrong with “Vorstellung” either. So… your book should shut up :)

Reply

Sarah

I’ve been reading some of your entries here and there and must say, that I really find them helpful. Was für ein wunderschönes Blog hast Du geschrieben! (and must say, it was kinda disappointing to read, that you have a gf xD)

Hello, and thank you for the helpful article. However, I have one question concerning the case of “einer” in “mit was für einer Soße.” I have heard several German instructors said that whatever comes after “für” is always accusative, but you wrote it in the dative case (on account of “mit”, I presume). Could you please explain to me why? Thank you.

Good question… you’re totally right. The Dative comes from the “mit” here. The reason is that “für” isn’t really a preposition here… it is not like “of” in “what kind of table”… the “of” does connect the “table” to “kind” but the “für” doesn’t connect anything. Think of “was für” as a fixed question phrase.