LOL!!! After my ex and I split (NOT an amicable split, and it involved him running around several months beforehand with a girl who wasn't much more than a walking social disease), Sissy said the only thing she wanted for her birthday was to put a dead fish under the seat of his truck.

She didn't, or at least if she did, I never heard about it. Her original idea involved either doe estrus or skunk extract, but given it wasn't hunting season, those items weren't likely to be easily found in the local sporting goods store.

mmswm, Your Honda dealer must be owned by the same morons that run our local Hyundai dealer.

Last year, I had an issue with the transmission in my Hyundai Tucson. I call the local dealer (where I bought my car) and after leaving at least 3 messages for them to call me back, finally get to talk to someone to explain the situation. Now, I am a mechanic's daughter, I've been around cars since birth, and I've logged a lot of time in my dad's garage helping him fix cars.

When I explained the issue with the transmission, I was told it was "probably just a sensor." I know darn well it's not "just a sensor" and that the tranny is going to need to be replaced. I get the condescending "now just how do you know that???" I explain that I've been around cars for quite awhile. I get laughed at. I ask to speak to the shop manager, tell him I didn't appreciate the condesending behavior and go through the whole spiel once again. Then I'm then told "that's not under warranty". I have the warranty paperwork right there in front of me and it says in black-and-white that transmissions ARE covered. Then I'm told my car is out of the warranty period. No, it's not. When I tried scheduling the appointment, I was told that the hours on the website are wrong, they don't have evening hours. I'll have to drop my car off in the morning and no, they don't offer loaner vehicles. I ask how I'm to get to work for the 2+ days my car will be in the shop (since I know that a tranny replacement will take at least 2 days). I was told that unless I find someone to take me to work (not an option), I am getting a vacation.

I say forget it and go looking for a Hyundai dealer near work. I find one, call them and tell them I am one p!ssed-off woman and I'm not about to go through what I just went through with the local dealership. I explain the situation and the shop guy tells me that transmission issues are VERY common to that particular model year and yes, it's under warranty. It takes 3 days to get the new tranny and fix my car. They have a shuttle to and from work for me for the first day AND they arrange for a rental car for me for the next two days -- at no cost to me. Car is fixed and runs like a dream.

Guess who isn't going back to the local dealership.

Unfortunately, the local dealership is the only one close by for my sister. She's had issues with her Hyundai -- nothing major, but things that needed fixed. She called with one issue and they needed to order a part. Told her they'd call her to make the appointment when the part came in. Over a month later, no call. So she calls them. Oh, yeah. That part sat here on the shelf for weeks and nobody knew who it was for. They put it in someone else's car just the other day. They'll order another part. She called them every day until the part came in. Her husband drove her to the dealership to pick up her car after it was fixed. He's standing off to the side as she's getting her keys and signing paperwork. The shop manager tells her that without the warranty, the work would have cost nearly $500 and "I bet your dad is happy it was under warranty." She just looked at him. The shop guy nods toward her husband. She says "no, my HUSBAND couldn't care less what it cost since it's MY car and MY money."

They had offered her free inspection when she bought her car. First time she takes it for inspection, they tell her she needs new brakes. Um. No. She does not. She and my dad put those brakes on the car the day before she took it to be inspected. They tell her, no, those brakes are bad. She whips out her cell phone, calls Dad, hands the phone to the shop guy and say "tell him how bad those brakes are." Dad must have ripped the guy a new one over the phone, because the guy told Sissy to have a seat in the waiting area for a few minutes and then they came back to tell her that her car passed inspection. They had brought her car around for her to pick up, and while she's signing paperwork, the guy that drives the cars from the lot into the garage and back BACKS INTO HER CAR. Crunches up the front, busts the radiator, busts a headlight.

The Hyundai dealer is now at her mercy. She took her car in a month ago with an issue with the heater not working right. Says she's not waiting until the snow flies for them to fix it. They tell her it's fixed, but she says it's still doing what it was doing before. It's going back to the shop tomorrow. Meanwhile, she ran over the remains of a deer that someone hit and since her car sits low to the ground, everything underneath is covered with deer guts. Dad told her to run it through the car wash and have them spray off the underside of the car. She opted not to - the car is going to the shop deer guts and all. She figures after the grief she's dealt with from them, a few deer guts will just even up the score.

She's been my sister for nearly 40 years. I know better than to get on her bad side. Trust me. They're lucky it's just deer guts.

Hyundai dealerships seem to be awful all over the place! The dealership I bought my Tucson was just awful when dealing with me. For one thing, they insist the car belongs to my husband. As in, every email, letter, promo, and phone call are addressed to my husband. Before I gave up on them, when I would call to try and schedule service, they'd ask if my husband approved me taking my Tucson in. When I picked it up, they'd ask if my husband was there, since the Tucson was under his name. When I bought my Tucson, the dealership had a promo where I'd get three years of free oil changes, plus some discounts on more expensive work. After 6 oil changes (so about a year and a half), I started being told that it wasn't three years of free oil changes, but 12 total. I pointed out that was about three years' worth. Then it was changed to 9 free oil changes. The next time I brought my Tucson in, they gave me a long spiel about not finding any notes about this "free oil change thing", but to be nice, they'd give it to me. I stopped taking my Tucson in to that dealership after that, and I will never deal with any of that chain of dealerships ever ever again.

mmswm, Your Honda dealer must be owned by the same morons that run our local Hyundai dealer.

Last year, I had an issue with the transmission in my Hyundai Tucson. I call the local dealer (where I bought my car) and after leaving at least 3 messages for them to call me back, finally get to talk to someone to explain the situation. Now, I am a mechanic's daughter, I've been around cars since birth, and I've logged a lot of time in my dad's garage helping him fix cars.

When I explained the issue with the transmission, I was told it was "probably just a sensor." I know darn well it's not "just a sensor" and that the tranny is going to need to be replaced. I get the condescending "now just how do you know that???" I explain that I've been around cars for quite awhile. I get laughed at. I ask to speak to the shop manager, tell him I didn't appreciate the condesending behavior and go through the whole spiel once again. Then I'm then told "that's not under warranty". I have the warranty paperwork right there in front of me and it says in black-and-white that transmissions ARE covered. Then I'm told my car is out of the warranty period. No, it's not. When I tried scheduling the appointment, I was told that the hours on the website are wrong, they don't have evening hours. I'll have to drop my car off in the morning and no, they don't offer loaner vehicles. I ask how I'm to get to work for the 2+ days my car will be in the shop (since I know that a tranny replacement will take at least 2 days). I was told that unless I find someone to take me to work (not an option), I am getting a vacation.

I say forget it and go looking for a Hyundai dealer near work. I find one, call them and tell them I am one p!ssed-off woman and I'm not about to go through what I just went through with the local dealership. I explain the situation and the shop guy tells me that transmission issues are VERY common to that particular model year and yes, it's under warranty. It takes 3 days to get the new tranny and fix my car. They have a shuttle to and from work for me for the first day AND they arrange for a rental car for me for the next two days -- at no cost to me. Car is fixed and runs like a dream.

Guess who isn't going back to the local dealership.

Unfortunately, the local dealership is the only one close by for my sister. She's had issues with her Hyundai -- nothing major, but things that needed fixed. She called with one issue and they needed to order a part. Told her they'd call her to make the appointment when the part came in. Over a month later, no call. So she calls them. Oh, yeah. That part sat here on the shelf for weeks and nobody knew who it was for. They put it in someone else's car just the other day. They'll order another part. She called them every day until the part came in. Her husband drove her to the dealership to pick up her car after it was fixed. He's standing off to the side as she's getting her keys and signing paperwork. The shop manager tells her that without the warranty, the work would have cost nearly $500 and "I bet your dad is happy it was under warranty." She just looked at him. The shop guy nods toward her husband. She says "no, my HUSBAND couldn't care less what it cost since it's MY car and MY money."

They had offered her free inspection when she bought her car. First time she takes it for inspection, they tell her she needs new brakes. Um. No. She does not. She and my dad put those brakes on the car the day before she took it to be inspected. They tell her, no, those brakes are bad. She whips out her cell phone, calls Dad, hands the phone to the shop guy and say "tell him how bad those brakes are." Dad must have ripped the guy a new one over the phone, because the guy told Sissy to have a seat in the waiting area for a few minutes and then they came back to tell her that her car passed inspection. They had brought her car around for her to pick up, and while she's signing paperwork, the guy that drives the cars from the lot into the garage and back BACKS INTO HER CAR. Crunches up the front, busts the radiator, busts a headlight.

The Hyundai dealer is now at her mercy. She took her car in a month ago with an issue with the heater not working right. Says she's not waiting until the snow flies for them to fix it. They tell her it's fixed, but she says it's still doing what it was doing before. It's going back to the shop tomorrow. Meanwhile, she ran over the remains of a deer that someone hit and since her car sits low to the ground, everything underneath is covered with deer guts. Dad told her to run it through the car wash and have them spray off the underside of the car. She opted not to - the car is going to the shop deer guts and all. She figures after the grief she's dealt with from them, a few deer guts will just even up the score.

She's been my sister for nearly 40 years. I know better than to get on her bad side. Trust me. They're lucky it's just deer guts.

Hyundai dealerships seem to be awful all over the place! The dealership I bought my Tucson was just awful when dealing with me. For one thing, they insist the car belongs to my husband. As in, every email, letter, promo, and phone call are addressed to my husband. Before I gave up on them, when I would call to try and schedule service, they'd ask if my husband approved me taking my Tucson in. When I picked it up, they'd ask if my husband was there, since the Tucson was under his name. When I bought my Tucson, the dealership had a promo where I'd get three years of free oil changes, plus some discounts on more expensive work. After 6 oil changes (so about a year and a half), I started being told that it wasn't three years of free oil changes, but 12 total. I pointed out that was about three years' worth. Then it was changed to 9 free oil changes. The next time I brought my Tucson in, they gave me a long spiel about not finding any notes about this "free oil change thing", but to be nice, they'd give it to me. I stopped taking my Tucson in to that dealership after that, and I will never deal with any of that chain of dealerships ever ever again.

There are two Hyundai dealersihps near me. I didn't buy my car at a dealership, I bought it used, but still wanted to use a dealership for repairs, if possible. The first time I had to take my Tiburon in, I went to the one that was closer to where I lived at the time. It was a brake light issue, and I needed to check the socket itself because the lights were burning out so fast. I got nothing but condescension and attitude, how dare a little girl like me be driving Daddy's car around like that. Well, it may have been a sports car, but it was mine, and I paid for it myself. I didn't stick around and went to the local auto parts store, where they just sold me a new socket and I installed it myself.

When the engine started acting funny I took it to the shop by my parents' house. Huge difference. I was treated with respect, all of my questions were answered and things were explained if I needed it, but I never felt like I was being talked down to. They fixed the problem, and offered a discount on an oil change while they were at it. I was due in a few days, so I took them up on it.

Guess which one got my business when the transmission went out and I needed a new one? And when I got my car back, the inside had been vacuumed and the console wiped down, and I got a discount on the service because they had gotten busy and hadn't given my car the complimentary car wash yet. Not much of a discount, but I will recommend that place hands down to anyone asking where they can take their car in for service.

mmswm, Your Honda dealer must be owned by the same morons that run our local Hyundai dealer.

Last year, I had an issue with the transmission in my Hyundai Tucson. I call the local dealer (where I bought my car) and after leaving at least 3 messages for them to call me back, finally get to talk to someone to explain the situation. Now, I am a mechanic's daughter, I've been around cars since birth, and I've logged a lot of time in my dad's garage helping him fix cars.

When I explained the issue with the transmission, I was told it was "probably just a sensor." I know darn well it's not "just a sensor" and that the tranny is going to need to be replaced. I get the condescending "now just how do you know that???" I explain that I've been around cars for quite awhile. I get laughed at. I ask to speak to the shop manager, tell him I didn't appreciate the condesending behavior and go through the whole spiel once again. Then I'm then told "that's not under warranty". I have the warranty paperwork right there in front of me and it says in black-and-white that transmissions ARE covered. Then I'm told my car is out of the warranty period. No, it's not. When I tried scheduling the appointment, I was told that the hours on the website are wrong, they don't have evening hours. I'll have to drop my car off in the morning and no, they don't offer loaner vehicles. I ask how I'm to get to work for the 2+ days my car will be in the shop (since I know that a tranny replacement will take at least 2 days). I was told that unless I find someone to take me to work (not an option), I am getting a vacation.

I say forget it and go looking for a Hyundai dealer near work. I find one, call them and tell them I am one p!ssed-off woman and I'm not about to go through what I just went through with the local dealership. I explain the situation and the shop guy tells me that transmission issues are VERY common to that particular model year and yes, it's under warranty. It takes 3 days to get the new tranny and fix my car. They have a shuttle to and from work for me for the first day AND they arrange for a rental car for me for the next two days -- at no cost to me. Car is fixed and runs like a dream.

Guess who isn't going back to the local dealership.

Unfortunately, the local dealership is the only one close by for my sister. She's had issues with her Hyundai -- nothing major, but things that needed fixed. She called with one issue and they needed to order a part. Told her they'd call her to make the appointment when the part came in. Over a month later, no call. So she calls them. Oh, yeah. That part sat here on the shelf for weeks and nobody knew who it was for. They put it in someone else's car just the other day. They'll order another part. She called them every day until the part came in. Her husband drove her to the dealership to pick up her car after it was fixed. He's standing off to the side as she's getting her keys and signing paperwork. The shop manager tells her that without the warranty, the work would have cost nearly $500 and "I bet your dad is happy it was under warranty." She just looked at him. The shop guy nods toward her husband. She says "no, my HUSBAND couldn't care less what it cost since it's MY car and MY money."

They had offered her free inspection when she bought her car. First time she takes it for inspection, they tell her she needs new brakes. Um. No. She does not. She and my dad put those brakes on the car the day before she took it to be inspected. They tell her, no, those brakes are bad. She whips out her cell phone, calls Dad, hands the phone to the shop guy and say "tell him how bad those brakes are." Dad must have ripped the guy a new one over the phone, because the guy told Sissy to have a seat in the waiting area for a few minutes and then they came back to tell her that her car passed inspection. They had brought her car around for her to pick up, and while she's signing paperwork, the guy that drives the cars from the lot into the garage and back BACKS INTO HER CAR. Crunches up the front, busts the radiator, busts a headlight.

The Hyundai dealer is now at her mercy. She took her car in a month ago with an issue with the heater not working right. Says she's not waiting until the snow flies for them to fix it. They tell her it's fixed, but she says it's still doing what it was doing before. It's going back to the shop tomorrow. Meanwhile, she ran over the remains of a deer that someone hit and since her car sits low to the ground, everything underneath is covered with deer guts. Dad told her to run it through the car wash and have them spray off the underside of the car. She opted not to - the car is going to the shop deer guts and all. She figures after the grief she's dealt with from them, a few deer guts will just even up the score.

She's been my sister for nearly 40 years. I know better than to get on her bad side. Trust me. They're lucky it's just deer guts.

Hyundai dealerships seem to be awful all over the place! The dealership I bought my Tucson was just awful when dealing with me. For one thing, they insist the car belongs to my husband. As in, every email, letter, promo, and phone call are addressed to my husband. Before I gave up on them, when I would call to try and schedule service, they'd ask if my husband approved me taking my Tucson in. When I picked it up, they'd ask if my husband was there, since the Tucson was under his name. When I bought my Tucson, the dealership had a promo where I'd get three years of free oil changes, plus some discounts on more expensive work. After 6 oil changes (so about a year and a half), I started being told that it wasn't three years of free oil changes, but 12 total. I pointed out that was about three years' worth. Then it was changed to 9 free oil changes. The next time I brought my Tucson in, they gave me a long spiel about not finding any notes about this "free oil change thing", but to be nice, they'd give it to me. I stopped taking my Tucson in to that dealership after that, and I will never deal with any of that chain of dealerships ever ever again.

There are two Hyundai dealersihps near me. I didn't buy my car at a dealership, I bought it used, but still wanted to use a dealership for repairs, if possible. The first time I had to take my Tiburon in, I went to the one that was closer to where I lived at the time. It was a brake light issue, and I needed to check the socket itself because the lights were burning out so fast. I got nothing but condescension and attitude, how dare a little girl like me be driving Daddy's car around like that. Well, it may have been a sports car, but it was mine, and I paid for it myself. I didn't stick around and went to the local auto parts store, where they just sold me a new socket and I installed it myself.

When the engine started acting funny I took it to the shop by my parents' house. Huge difference. I was treated with respect, all of my questions were answered and things were explained if I needed it, but I never felt like I was being talked down to. They fixed the problem, and offered a discount on an oil change while they were at it. I was due in a few days, so I took them up on it.

Guess which one got my business when the transmission went out and I needed a new one? And when I got my car back, the inside had been vacuumed and the console wiped down, and I got a discount on the service because they had gotten busy and hadn't given my car the complimentary car wash yet. Not much of a discount, but I will recommend that place hands down to anyone asking where they can take their car in for service.

makes me glad i scratched Hyundai off my list and went with a Toyota instead!

That's the thing with dealerships, though. Your local one can be absolute carp and you go to the one over a town and they are fantastic.

When I was looking, part of the reason I wasn't going to go Subaru again is because there was no way in hell I was going back to the local dealership. But the more research I did, the more I leaned back that way. So far (only bought in September), the dealership one town over, even though it is smaller, is light years ahead in service. I'll test them again tomorrow since I'm going in to get my snow tires on.

Logged

After cleaning out my Dad's house, I have this advice: If you haven't used it in a year, throw it out!!!!.

The Mitsubishi dealership near me has always treated me with contempt and acted like I knew nothing as well. They finally got a new manager and last time I went in I almost fell over at how nice they were. My next car will be a Hyundai though. The dealerships around here get pretty positive reviews and I have had my heart set on an Elantra for quite awhile. And even though they may have reformed, I will never buy a Mitsubishi again (the car has had an insane amount of problems in any case).

The Mitsubishi dealership near me has always treated me with contempt and acted like I knew nothing as well. They finally got a new manager and last time I went in I almost fell over at how nice they were. My next car will be a Hyundai though. The dealerships around here get pretty positive reviews and I have had my heart set on an Elantra for quite awhile. And even though they may have reformed, I will never buy a Mitsubishi again (the car has had an insane amount of problems in any case).

HA - the first car I bought on my own was a used Misubishi. I hated it. Transmission blew 2 months out of warranty and cost me an arm and a leg to fix. it eventually died a slow and painful death, but at that time the radio was dead, and one of my power windows also was. Plus, I got hit 4 times in that car. Rear-ended three, and broadsided by a deer.

Update: the general manager if the dealership called back. He seemed to take my complaint seriously. He did try to say that the parts manager was a very dry, monotone type, but I explained that there was a definite change in tone once I mentioned what was wrong with the car. I told him about my experience with the next dealership north, and told him I honestly didn't know what he could do to get my business back, as the other place clearly deserved my money more, but I also felt that he deserved to know what happened so that maybe he could take action to prevent driving other customers north.

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Some people lift weights. I lift measures. It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)

I have two mechanics. My main mechanic is a friend of my mom's, he's great, but often very busy. My second mechanic is a friend I made a temp job, she's fantastic, but also works at a garage and can get busy at times. So when Mechanic A and Mechanic B aren't available I have a local shop I go to. They're awesome. They're a little pricier then other shops in the area, anywhere else an oil change will run me between $20-$25, they usually are $35, in less I have a coupon (and I usually have a coupon). I go to them because they're honest, fair, they explain things to me without talking down to me and they simply are good at what they do. I send everyone I know to them with the explanation that "They're great, they are a little on the pricey side, but they won't try to sell to you. If they tell you need to get something done, you need to get it done".

Well one day I needed an oil change. A and B were out, B was out of town and A was very busy. The shop was also pretty busy and didn't think they could squeeze me in. No big deal. It's an oil change, there's only one place I won't go to for an oil change (a tire shop that managed to screw up an alignment, then deny it was an alignment problem and tried to get me to pay thousands of dollars for work I didn't need that wouldn't fix the problem). So I grab a cuopon I've gotten for a AAA oil change. It's AAA I think, they know what they're doing. And they did, they didn't break anything at all. However they assumed that because I was born female I barely know how to turn my car on.

When I go up to pay they say "Well missy, you gotta a lot of work that needs to be done", really? Cause three separate mechanics say otherwise. "First, your driver's side brake light is out", oh I didn't know that, ok no big deal lights go out easy enough for me to fix. "Second, your passenger blinker is gonna go soon, it's blinking really fast", yes, that I knew and also knew it was an indication my light would go soon, I'll get that when I get my brake light fixed. "Third, looks like somehow a plastic got wrapped around you *I cannot remember what he said!!*, you gotta get that fixed right away or it'll cause problems. Probably happened when you were at a mall, I know you women love shopping!", that was necessary because? "And finally, you got a big ol' crack in your windshield. Now you might now this, but it's not gonna fix itself"....seriously? Cracked windshields don't fix themselves? I had no idea. Also I don't think that needed to be on the report, it was pretty obvious I'd already seen it (and made an appointment to have it fixed the following day with a glass place), but obviously they were trying to up sell me. When I asked him for a printed list of these problems to look over he says "Well, sure, I guess you gotta discuss it with your husband or dad, huh? Whoever the man in your life is" to which I said "No, my licensed mechanic, she's fantastic".

I took the car to the regular shop for the bag issue, they handled it very quickly and charged me nothing. In fact the guy remarked he couldn't believe they didn't just take it off when they were doing the oil change. And I went to my preferred parts store and got the needed lights. And then never ever ever went back to get an oil change from that AAA shop. Somehow my car still drove even with all those big massive problems.

^ Honestly, other than the way he talked down to you, I don't see much problem. All of his recommendations were valid. I do think the comment about your mechanic, she, has been consulted was great! I hope you told him you were taking care of the lights yourself, by the way.

My dream is to go to the repair shop alone, because Lucas stereotypically takes care of these things, and say, "Ooo! I must talk to my daddy about that!" (I'm 68, a pretty much look it. )

^ Honestly, other than the way he talked down to you, I don't see much problem. All of his recommendations were valid. I do think the comment about your mechanic, she, has been consulted was great! I hope you told him you were taking care of the lights yourself, by the way.

My dream is to go to the repair shop alone, because Lucas stereotypically takes care of these things, and say, "Ooo! I must talk to my daddy about that!" (I'm 68, a pretty much look it. )

It was mostly the tone, as if I was brand new to driving a car and couldn't fathom how to make it work. Though when I dropped it off I was told there was a real nice nail salon I could go to while I got my car fixed. Which would fine. Had I asked about getting my nails done or if there was something to do near by. I hadn't.

I was annoyed by the windshield part. It was a noticeable crack. I basically would've had to not been looking at the windshield to not notice it. If he'd say "There's a crack in the windshield and we can fix it" it would've been different. But the, obviously you have no idea about how cracked windshields work, bugged me.

I'm still not sure why they didn't remove the plastic bag. According to my mechanic it probably would've been in their way while they did the oil change, which meant they had to work around it, rather than just remove it.

^ Honestly, other than the way he talked down to you, I don't see much problem. All of his recommendations were valid. I do think the comment about your mechanic, she, has been consulted was great! I hope you told him you were taking care of the lights yourself, by the way.

My dream is to go to the repair shop alone, because Lucas stereotypically takes care of these things, and say, "Ooo! I must talk to my daddy about that!" (I'm 68, a pretty much look it. )

This was the other thing that I liked about the dealership where I bought my latest vehicle. I'm single, 45 and not once did the salesman say anything about my husband. Don't know whether he was observant and saw I wasn't wearing a ring or what. He did call me sweetie at one point, caught himself and apologized. But considering the man looked like Santa Claus and about as old, I wasn't offended. He also thought I was much younger, which is normal for me.

(Seriously, he looked like Santa Claus. He takes most of December off to do all sorts of events, dressed as Santa, including a party they throw at the dealership for customers and their kids.)

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After cleaning out my Dad's house, I have this advice: If you haven't used it in a year, throw it out!!!!.

I always loved going to car repair places with my grandmother. She got to a certain point in her life that even though she could do the work, she didn't want to and she had the money to pay somebody, so she did. To understand why this is so amusing, one must understand my grandmother. She was NOT a nice lady. Iron Clad Femaledog is a better term. She was also an airplane mechanic in her younger days. In the Army Air Corps, back when it was called that (before it was spun off into it's own branch). During WWII she was stationed on a medivac route with a regular men's unit. You an imagine the type of personality she had to have in order to pull that off. She also held several patents for various aircraft tools. All that to say this: she knew what she was talking about.

It never failed when she went to a new place. Some condescending male would talk down to her like she was a moron who couldn't think past her next manicure. She'd listen for a bit, and then go into a tirade that would make the devil himself cry. Ehell would not approve, but it was funny to watch her reduce even the most hardened misogynist to tears.

Logged

Some people lift weights. I lift measures. It's a far more esoteric workout. - (Quoted from a personal friend)