Despite what the FAA calls them on their certificates, some people are not pilots in my book. I hate to place blame based on one news report, but it sounds like this kid might be one of them. Sad that he and his friends found out the hard way why some FARs exist.

Historically Young people interested in aviation have always been taken under wing by older types interested in seeing them pursue aviation as a vocation. It happens on every General Aviation field in the country..everyday. Assess (Keys/Codes) are sometimes given to youth who wash bugs off, perform simple maintenance and look after things as a way of giving them an opportunity around the field to help out and get a flight here and there. This is as old as aviation itself...What's also old is kids taking the family car for a joy ride..young boys who have no fatherly figure around and the temptation to impress your buddies. Its doubtful that the owner had any clue what was coming or even remotely hinted at giving this teenager permission to fly. Anyone in aviation knows it would have been an instant death sentence...debating the cause of the crash is pointless.

W, do you know if you can be signed off for solo in a twin with only a student license? Obviously you can't carry pax on a stu license no matter what. Even if possible, I would bet against it as being the case.

You need a minimum of 10 hours solo to get your first private pilot license (either single or multiengine). So according to the FARs, you can solo in a multiengine, the problem is I don't know of an insurance company that will insure a pilot to fly a twin without already having a multiengine rating. Which is why everyone I know that has a ME rating does their solo in a single, gets their private, and then the required training to add on a ME rating (which doesn't need solo time).

See FAR part 61.109(b) - as far as I'm aware you can get an AMEL without having an ASEL certificate. Not the recommended way but the path is there. You can only legally fly multi-engine airplanes with it. I went ASEL-Inst-AMEL/CP myself.

I do see where you can get ME concurrent with private. I don't see where it allows multi time solo, only hours of training time in multi. So when the man let him use the plane hopefully it was training only. I still think the owner may have a pack of trouble. Guess it really don't matter. The FARs weren't in play anyhow.

Yes, you can start as a Student Pilot, train only in a multi-engine aircraft, and **legally** be signed off for solo operations in that category and class of aircraft. HOWEVER, there isn't an insurance company in the world that would allow solo operations by a student pilot.

Interesting. I almost always learn something on these threads. Lots of people think we shouldn't comment since we don't really know all the circumstances, and we don't, but lots of good opinions and quite a bit of knowledge can surface. Thanks for yours.

I remember a whole back there was a student learning on a king air 200!! He purchased the plane and had his CFI take delivery from the factory new. People with too much money and not enough brains make really bad decisions. I would never want to instruct a student pilot for his private in anything but a simple SEL.

I guess since military trains in complex aircraft it is possible to do. In just a few hours they are put in extremely high performance aircraft

But, if the pilot was just a student most likely not learning on a twin - with access an keys for the plane - 99.99% chance he shouldn't have had flown in it except a ride along - why did he have keys then? Perhaps the kid told a story about flying the plane?

The whole story seems very weird. As I was reading it I kept going through the possible fars

Everyone here is so gullible. Everyone here is accepting the news story as fact. Maybe the boy stole the key and told his mon he was given a key. Maybe he had access to the airport as a student pilot to fly single engine trainers. Maybe he rode as a passenger in the PA-30 and could not log time. Everything in the story is not proven to be fact and we are all speculating. This is what drives more regulations that will not fix stupid. It is not the parent's fought. Most 17 year old people are able to make adult decisions. I feel he knew he was not supposed to take that plane and he had to suffer the consequences. I am not trying to be hard but people have to be held responsible for their own actions and not blame someone else. I feel sorry for the family in the wake of this tragedy and will pray for them.

I have yet to see the news media get anything correct on an aviation accident report. Most things that are fact are spun out of context and become misleading. I perfer to wait for the NTSB report for real information, they don't have to worry about selling advertising space and can focus on getting the true story.

I wonder if ( and would not be suprised if ) any of the people who died in the crash (especially the pilot) were Microsoft Flight users. The reason I wonder because that game is free and it promotes unrealistic,foolish, and deadly aviation practices. I was about 20 years old (about 25 years ago) when I was going for my PPL and I would not even think of flying as a student with passengers and/or with no flight plan in IFR, at night, and most especially w/o my instructor who would know my abilities. These days there seems to be no difference between fantasy and reality within many minds, young and old, and its going to get worse as long as gaming software companies and movie makers keep making such ignorant, violent, foolish, products that glorify lawlessness and carelessness. And then you have parents who allow such trash to enter the minds of the poor kids.

Me.... I expect much worse in the future until people in authority get wisdom from above.

What the Hell is all this rhetoric about? Not only are we yet again exposed to incredibly poor editorial by the newspaper's reporters, but look at whatever facts are prevalent: A STUDENT pilot, takes a twin with 2 pax flying in what I may assume was IMC, and crashes. The mother says "He was granted a schlorship"? For what? Being able to kill a few of his friends? One test short of acquiring his Private? What test whould that be? How to steal a twin? How to fly a twin? How to fly a twin in IMC? How to kill your friends? He deserved to die. His friends did not!!!

My God give the key to the gun cabinet and add some friends and wa-la we have a problem. Yes we wont to see our children go some were in life but this is not the place to be. The whole system is a mess with family problems and down stream it goes.

May God welcome them with open arms and other learn from there mistakes

Who's to say the kid didn't know the owner and have an arrangement to 'borrow' the aircraft to recieve instruction in it? No different than any lease-back arrangement, and it wouldn't involve the owner giving the kid carte blanche to go take the airplane in clear violation of just about every regulation possible, either. Let's not throw the owner under the bus for what is surely a tragic outcome to the classic bag of luck running out before there's much to pull out of the bag of experience.

Looks like a classic accident chain... Complex and probably high performance aircraft which was too much for the pilot, illegally flying it and his passengers, late night flight, probably tired and excited, less than friendly weather, distractions in the cabin. He probably got into IFR conditions, panicked and had CFIT (controlled flight into terrain). It's tragic, but a little common sense could have prevented this. He was probably pressured by his friends, but that is no excuse, if you don't feel good about something in the flight you should call a no go... My apologies to the families of the deceased.

Where do you get Microsoft Flight Sim for free? You can't generalize the Flight Sim users and say they are doing foolish and deadly practices because of it. Maybe some who do it for a hobby or the thrill of it might, but for the most part it actually helps peoiple get through their ratings by teaching procedures. I know of quite a few people that it helped, including my son who blasted through his private at 17 last year, and is now almost done with his instrument. It is a good and cheap learning tool, but it's up to the user.

Are we gullible to accept that 3 teenagers are found dead in the wreckage of an unregistered 2 engine aircraft that went down in the late evening hours? If so, then I will cop to being gullible. I suppose the teens could have just been in the wrong place at the wrong time and the aircraft just fell on them. While the latter wide ranging speculation and commentary goes will with a grain or two of salt, it is interesting and educational.

The family is in denial. How could anyone believe that the pilot was given permission to fly this airplane model at the time when he did? As the previous person commented, every aspect of the flight was new or dangerous to the pilot. Anyone of these factors could have resulted in an accident. But with so many factors stacked against the pilot, he had no chance to survive this flight.

From experience being a SEL, Instrument, Commercial pilot the training you receive during your time as a Student Pilot on instruments, is just enough to get you out of the tough situations if you get in them by chance. Flying at night and running into the clouds, even as an Instrument rated pilot can sometimes through you off. You do learn to go immediately to your instruments after you get enough experience, but that's the thing. I do feel sorry for his friends who flew with him, even though a student pilot knows that other than your instructor or someone giving you a check ride, that is against every FAR in the book. My first experience in a MEL was tense. You have 4 times the things to look at, not just double with 2 engines. Everything happens twice as fast, twice as often. The best thing I learned in all my flight training is that you have to know when to go and when not to go. This was a great time to have just said no.

This is a sad and tragic accident that every student pilot should hear about. One of the first things we learned as student pilots are THE RULES. Who was this kids CFI? What ahole would give a teenage student pilot the keys to an aircraft he is not qualified to fly or any aircraft for that matter? Bad judgement all the way around resulting in the deaths of 2innocent passengers.

Pretty clear. Not much to say other then the obvious. On another note: whats a responsible adult giving a key to a kid for a twin engine aircraft? You don't think there's a problem? Thats why we have keys...Keys are trust. If this kid flew this thing with permission from the owner on a solo run..I hope the owner loses his ticket.

And what is the number one cause of pilot error accidents regardless of the circumstances? In a word: Stupidity! It can be lethal. The physical law that applies? The law of gravitation. Gravity will always win, Always!

I will weigh in on the side of the owner. The following is Speculation for sure...But I believe this to be the Mothers... "My son Could do no wrong Syndrome." The seductive nature of aviation and the impression it can leave on young boys/men will tempt them to do some pretty outrageous things especially where it denotes status and respect of their peers/friends..Teenagers take the car for a joy ride all the time without asking, I see no difference with GA and access to an aircraft. I have been around hangers since I was 8 years old and I can tell you I was tempted on more then one occasion but my father and other caring fatherly figures with a strong presence in my life repressed those thoughts .A careful look here will probably find a lack of exactly that in this kids life...lack of a father...and now a mothers grief will explain it away.

Ultimately the teen is at fault, and ruining his life and the lives of two others who had a full life ahead of them. But I look down on the flight school and the instructor that did not break the "invisibility" that some not all teens have because they lack life experiences. Letting him fly high performance airplane before a SEL PPL certificate and promising him his own plane as a new plane with the amount of time he has? Its a little ridiculous.

Several comments about insurance, and unfortunately there are companies that will insure students in twins, just like there ones that will insure brand new multi pilots in King Airs or even the Citation Mustang, and you would surprised how affordable it may actually be. The FAR's allow you to obtain Private Multi, just like you can get a VFR only type rating in Lear Jet or Hawker like the Jenni Rivera pilot had, but that has not made very public. So how to you fly a Lr 25 VFR only at FL280. Oh, well, pilots regardless of their qualifications continue to make poor decisions, and sometimes it cost them the rest of their life.

Hasn't been anything said about the owner yet. That's what will be interesting. With all this he can't claim STOLEN or UNAUTHORIZED USE and the very least of his worries will be something from the FAA as I'm sure there will be a lawsuit or 3 coming his way.

Unfortunately this is sort of like the school shooting at Sandy hook. Mother allowed mentally disturbed son access to guns. According to the story this man allowed this young man access to a plane he had no business flying.

I would also think the parents, and the access system at the airport need scruitny. Children under 18 are the primary responsibility of the parent, but owners of planes should make secure. I cannot see any reason for any child to have access, unescorted, to airside of any airport.

JASPER, Ala. (AP) -- A teen pilot killed along with two friends in an Alabama plane crash had his own key to the aircraft and had flown it many times, his mother said Wednesday, denying authorities' assertion that the plane had been taken without permission.

Alabama Teenager Fatally Injured In Accident Did Not 'Steal' The Airplane

The real tragedy of this story is that a young man who was said to be a checkride away from getting his private pilot certificate was fatally injured on Tuesday night along with two of his friends apparently doing something he should have known better than to do. The 17-year-old was reportedly piloting a Piper PA 30 Twin Comanche that, according to his mother, he "had used many tim

An unlicensed 17-year-old was reportedly at the controls of what The Associated Press is reporting was a Piper PA30 Twin Comanche that crashed Tuesday evening in Alabama, killing him and his two teenaged passengers

17-year-old son Jordan Smith was the one flying the plane that went down in the Alabama woods Tuesday night. The Federal Aviation Administration said the Piper PA 30 crashed less than a mile from the Walker County Airport in Jasper, which is northwest of Birmingham.