It was you who stated that teams were spotted in Honolulu around 9am. That presumably does not mean at Honolulu International Airport; it means on their way downtown. How do teams get through customs at a major airport and probably a minimum of 5 miles in a taxi in 30 minutes total? This does not compute.

It was you who stated that teams were spotted in Honolulu around 9am. That presumably does not mean at Honolulu International Airport; it means on their way downtown. How do teams get through customs at a major airport and probably a minimum of 5 miles in a taxi in 30 minutes total? This does not compute.

Getting more info that racers may have been spotted earlier, I think we need to be able to place them there by about 9.

I think I said MAY have been spotted. Photos began around 9 ish...were those just of helicopters and setup? I don't have exact data, when and if I do I will say so.

What I was trying to say was that a photo on the wires at say 10AM does NOT take into account the security briefings and instructions...so a wire sighting of 10 AM could be a an arrival much closer to 9. Sorry for any confusion.

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"I can't speak for production, but I really like that people see us when we're traveling around the world. If you're a fan of the show, ... you're going to be more excited because you want to see what happens."Phil Keoghan

I did a "calibraion" test of one of his shots where there is a clock in it. Based on that the check ins were around 7:20 pm local time.

Ummm, I think the sun would be down by that time. Sunset at 4:51 PM

I can't seem to get the exif data on these shots today! I was able to see it yesterday. What I did was to use this shot in the train station to correct the exif offset. I may have used the wrong numbers. If you can still get the exif data see if you can figure out the offset. The clock says 1:05 and it must be PM.

The photo from the train station has a time of 2011-12-17T23:11:56-05:00 (note its the day before).So from the train photo if 2011-12-17T23:11:56-05:00 = 13:05:00Then from the pit stop photo 2011-12-18T23:28:17-05:00 = 13:22:00So your time from the shadows is spot on!

I asked myself whether normal customs processing times might be avoidable with pre-clearance in Japan. As best as I can determine, the answer is that it cannot. Here are the origination points from which pre-clearance is possible:

Most major Canadian Airports (Toronto-Pearson, Montréal-Trudeau, Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier, Vancouver, Calgary, etc.), Queen Beatrix International Airport in Aruba, Grand Bahama and Lynden Pindling International Airports in the Bahamas, Bermuda International Airport in Bermuda, and Dublin and Shannon International Airports in Ireland.

It is theoretically possible that DL 278 KIX HNL was the one taken by the F3 teams on Monday Dec. 19. It is likely that Phil and some WRP staff were on any of 3 flights KIX HNL on Sunday Dec. 18 that departed around 9pm and arrived between about 830am and 9am.

However, I still believe that the tightness of the schedule from the 831am arrival of DL278 (far ahead of schedule) would have caused WRP to put the F3 teams on flights NRT HNL which arrived hours earlier from 621am to 809am.

I want to track the last possible train schedule that could have gotten teams from Osaka to Narita on the afternoon of Dec. 19. This tells us what the pit stop length may have been. To give you the answer before showing the analysis, the pit stop would have been slightly less than 12 hours with the prior leg finish around 122pm. Here is the timing of the rail journey:

Apskip, you don't seem to know about the the Shinkansen Nozomi bullet train! It runs 4x per hour!

Here, Teams can leave Osaka as late as 1:45 pm and arrive 5:53 pm at Narita Terminal 2 in time for the 7:00 pm flight DL 638 to HNL:

First of all, Chateau, I rode on the Shinkansen line multiple decades ago and am personally familiar with schedules and stops along the main line from Toyko to Kyoto (just a few miles from Osaka).

I used the schedule for the Bullet Train between Shin-Osaka and Tokyo but not from Tokyo (via Shinagawa) out to Narita. Chateau, I bet you don't know without looking it up how many trains per the relevant hour of the trip occur on each segment of the line. Let me enlighten you:

Osaka to Shin-Osaka on the local line 18 between 1300 and 1400Shin-Osaka to Shinagawa on the Shinkansen line 7 between 1500 and 1600 (not 4, Chateau)Shinagawa to Narita on the Keisei Skyliner line max. 2 per hour all day longAlternate - Tokyo to Nippori 19 on Keihou Tohoku Negishi line between 1600 and 1700 connecting in Nippori to Keisei Skyliner train to Narita 4

So, if you want to go through Tokyo, the schedule is slightly better due to 4 trains/hour vs. 2 from Shinagawa.

My main point is "Who cares how many trains there are on the Shinkansen line, which does not run all the way to Narita?"

Apskip, you don't seem to know about the the Shinkansen Nozomi bullet train! It runs 4x per hour!

Here, Teams can leave Osaka as late as 1:45 pm and arrive 5:53 pm at Narita Terminal 2 in time for the 7:00 pm flight DL 638 to HNL:

First of all, Chateau, I rode on the Shinkansen line multiple decades ago and am personally familiar with schedules and stops along the main line from Toyko to Kyoto (just a few miles from Osaka).

I used the schedule for the Bullet Train between Shin-Osaka and Tokyo but not from Tokyo (via Shinagawa) out to Narita. Chateau, I bet you don't know without looking it up how many trains per the relevant hour of the trip occur on each segment of the line. Let me enlighten you:

Osaka to Shin-Osaka on the local line 18 between 1300 and 1400Shin-Osaka to Shinagawa on the Shinkansen line 7 between 1500 and 1600 (not 4, Chateau)Shinagawa to Narita on the Keisei Skyliner line max. 2 per hour all day longAlternate - Tokyo to Nippori 19 on Keihou Tohoku Negishi line between 1600 and 1700 connecting in Nippori to Keisei Skyliner train to Narita 4

So, if you want to go through Tokyo, the schedule is slightly better due to 4 trains/hour vs. 2 from Shinagawa.

My main point is "Who cares how many trains there are on the Shinkansen line, which does not run all the way to Narita?"

Well you'd better dust off your memories because on-line trip planners are up to date and hard to beat!

I did know about the 7 Shinkansen per hour but it looks like you did not consider the 4 that are Shinkansen Nozomi. The train you selected was the slower Hikari and only runs twice per hour.

In the Race, accuracy matters! The actual scheduled departure of the Hikari was at 1:13 pm not 1:17 pm as you stated, the actual arrival at Shinagawa was 4:03 pm not the 3:53 pm as you stated.

Also, getting off the Bullet train in Shinagawa is not the best idea. You should stay on until the Tokyo station. The reason is that you will be closer to Nartia and you have more options to make the transfer. As you said, but did not implement, there is the twice per hour Narita Express plus the twice per hour Skyliner as well as other multi-transfer routes.

In the Race, getting there first matters! The route you proposed takes longer and arrives later than one taken by a Team using the Nozomi. Your route leaves Osaka at 1:11 pm and gets to Narita Terminal 2 at 5:25 pm. I can send a Team on a route leaving at 1:21 pm, by using the Nozomi, gets to Narita Terminal 2 at 5:21 pm!

Of course, they could also force teams to fly to Narita. On the 19th there were two options:

JC3010 0815 0924QR 802 1745 1904

If it's a 12(ish) hour Pit Stop, they can make either flight; if it's more than 18 hours they can take the second. The first flight provides a long layover (nearly 10 hours) while the second flight gives less than two hours to connect. My experience in NRT is admittedly nonexistent, but I wouldn't think that WRP would gamble on a two hour connection and risk teams to be a day behind when a safer alternative exists. Moreover WRP doesn't seem to want to spare any expense regarding getting teams to the final city (flying via Lufthansa in TAR 13, the shortened Pit Stops in TAR 13/15 to get teams together on a flight, taking a completely different flight after the sick pilot delayed things in TAR 18, etc).

Fearless prediction: 12 hour pit stop (finally!), Teams get the 'Fly to Honolulu!' clue and in the additional information are given that they must connect through Tokyo (if they aren't given what flight to take outright). JC3010 is used to get to NRT, while one of the options apskip gives is used to get to Honolulu.

I appreciate your vote of confidence for my hypothesis on the most likely route from Osaka to Tokyo. However, with all the delays from security procedures, check-ins, and possible delays in the flight, I find it unlikely that teams would have been placed on a flight from Osaka to Narita. They would probably have taken a train to reach Narita, of which you can see from earlier in this thread there are many dozens of options.

Also, if a flight was the chosen mode, teams would more likely have flown from Osaka's national airport ITM rather than international KIX. There were 4 flights from ITM to NRT on Dec. 19.

MON 28 NOVEMBERAR 2450 from Buenos Aires AEP to Salta, 0745-0945 (0625-0840)4M 4110 from Buenos Aires AEP to Salta, 0955-1220AR 2454 from Buenos Aires AEP to Salta, 1250-1455 (1120-1335)PIT STOP #1: SALTA (possible, but less likely, that teams take a bus ride on the 28th and race on the 29th)

There are direct flights from Milan to Baku, although they arrive at night. You can get from Baku to Dar Es Salaam or Nairobi via London, Dubai, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, or Paris. Nairobi then has good connections to most of Asia.

_________ End Neobie, Start apskip below

I have quite a few comments on your proposals:

1. I agree that one way either Salta to Buenos Aires or Buenos Aires to Salta should be by bus.2. However, I think it would go the opposite of what you show, with Nov. 28 to Salta by bus and Nov. 29 from Salta by plane3. You have a number of alternatives to get to Munich from Frankfurt, Paris or Milan by plane. I don't think that's how they did it. The distance from Frankfurt to Fussen is 417 km, with driving time of 4 hours 8 minutes vs. Munich to Fussen 168km and 1 hour 40 minutes. Why bother to go through Munich? Besides, our first inclination was a nonstop flight from Sao Paulo to Frankfurt, which is what I believe happened. 4. I too am confounded by the Rome airport spotting. It has never made any sense unless teams had full flights or to reroute in transit due to weather problems.5. There are many Lufthansa flights for Dec. 4, INCLUDING LATER IN THE DAY, from Munich to Torino.6. Have you forgotten Tanzania? Teams would logically head there next after Torino before heading to Asia rather than backtracking to get there.

1. I agree that one way either Salta to Buenos Aires or Buenos Aires to Salta should be by bus.2. However, I think it would go the opposite of what you show, with Nov. 28 to Salta by bus and Nov. 29 from Salta by plane3. You have a number of alternatives to get to Munich from Frankfurt, Paris or Milan by plane. I don't think that's how they did it. The distance from Frankfurt to Fussen is 417 km, with driving time of 4 hours 8 minutes vs. Munich to Fussen 168km and 1 hour 40 minutes. Why bother to go through Munich? Besides, our first inclination was a nonstop flight from Sao Paulo to Frankfurt, which is what I believe happened. 4. I too am confounded by the Rome airport spotting. It has never made any sense unless teams had full flights or to reroute in transit due to weather problems.5. There are many Lufthansa flights for Dec. 4, INCLUDING LATER IN THE DAY, from Munich to Torino.6. Have you forgotten Tanzania? Teams would logically head there next after Torino before heading to Asia rather than backtracking to get there.

I'd concede #3 and #5. I find the Germany leg pretty untraditional, though; even if they drove in straight from Frankfurt, they'd be running around in darkness, in a region famous for its natural prettiness (which is evident only in the day). Neuschwanstein Castle isn't even that beautifully lit-up at night. Going to Rome would be a terrible idea. The only logical flight was cancelled and the earliest teams can get into Turin, via Rome, would be at 5.17pm, some 5h after the direct Munich-Turin flight (which leaves after the Munich-Rome flight).

For #2, I think it's more likely that a bus between Salta and Buenos Aires, if there is one, would appear on Leg 2 instead of Leg 1. The bus ride is long (~20h), and the regularly scheduled buses would have all departed by the time they arrived. If there were special overnight charter buses to take teams out of Buenos Aires, they'd arrive in Salta at night. If they left early the next morning, they'd arrive, again, at night. If teams were made to wait around at Buenos Aires for a bus that arrived around dawn, they'd be sitting around for a while. Add that to the delay created by flying through Miami and arriving at Buenos Aires at night, and you've got a very dragged out first leg...

For #6, I was just attracted by the direct flight from Milan to Baku. Flight itineraries do seem easier if we took a Italy > Azerbaijan > Tanzania > Asia route rather than a Italy > Tanzania > Azerbaijan > Asia one, given the limited options out of Baku (but there are Middle Eastern and Central Asian destinations from there). From Nairobi (the airport they used for charter flights in TAR 5) there would be flights straight on towards India, SE Asia, even Hong Kong and Guangzhou.

« Last Edit: January 27, 2012, 09:26:59 AM by Neobie »

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Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

There are 46 different combinations to go Nairobi to Baku. Here are the major connecting points (with the ones in London and Moscow and Amsterdam not listed because to me they don't make sense given the other options):

IstanbulDubaiDohaMany first connecting points (DXB, CAI, DAR) leading to IST as the second and final oneMany first connecting points (ADD, KGL, MBA, BAH) leading to Dubai as the second and final one

For those not familiar with some of these DAR is DarEsSalaam, KGL is Kigali and MBA is Mombasa

Now, Neobie has raised the important and valid question of how to leave Baku and I will specify that it should be in an eastward direction. That means China Southern Airlines, which flies to Guangzhou, Beijing, Shanghai and a few other places from Baku. The perfect solution to this problem is via Urumqi at teh western end of Szechuan province. Here are the nonstop flights from Baku to Urumqi (note: they do not fly every day of the way):

What a perfect solution, as Urumqi, on many of those ancient trade routes in use in Marco Polo times, has to be a very interesting place! It is also so isolated that it could easily have not been the site of an Amazing Race leg with few outsiders noticing.

Our Asuncion > Bavaria > Turin route has two problems:1. The Bavaria leg would have been run at night.2. Teams don't need to go through Rome to get to Turin.

An Asuncion > Turin route doesn't make sense either:1. Teams can get into Turin by the afternoon of 3 Dec.2. Instead they are seen at Rome on the morning of 4 Dec and check in that same evening.

Can we figure out how we can rearrange the schedule so an arrival in Rome on 4 Dec makes sense? Taking some leaps of faith based on Elizabeth's Twitter posts, she was probably on EasyJet from Rome to Geneva, departing at 9.50am.

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Found out that Neobie in Chinese means "f*king awesome"! No, really. Look it up!

"I can't speak for production, but I really like that people see us when we're traveling around the world. If you're a fan of the show, ... you're going to be more excited because you want to see what happens."Phil Keoghan