topic Re: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investors in Bond Squadhttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/687144#M5549
<P><SPAN>Gary: "My last post was to state the point I was backing off criticizing SD due to the fact it is not risk. It is volatility."</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>And my point is that "volatility" is a major component of risk measurement, as exemplified by its inclusion on the M* Risk section for various funds.&nbsp; SD and volatility are both major components of risk measurement.&nbsp; You can exclude them as you choose, but ignoring what it is considered major components of risk measurements seems rather far fetched.&nbsp; What is clear is that standard measurement of risk, based largely on relatively normal markets, can be severely compromised in infrequent market crash periods, which will lead to panic selling, and redemption impact exacerbated by deep market crash periods.&nbsp; I doubt we will ever be able to develop a risk metric measurement for deep market crash periods, complicated by liquidity measures--even funds with major components of cash in their portfolios, will use that up quickly in crash periods, and then start having these one day huge losses due to mass redemptions and liquidity impact.&nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></P>Tue, 24 Mar 2020 13:58:18 GMTdtconroe2020-03-24T13:58:18ZBond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682227#M5100
<P>Given the recent turmoil in the markets, that has led to a correction, and threatens to become a recession, I thought it might be appropriate to start a thread for "more conservative investors".&nbsp; The thread attempts to talk about Bond OEFs, that are lower risk, in their bond categories, that might be appropriate for longer term investors, who would like to stay as fully invested as possible.&nbsp; To get started, I am listing a few funds, in the Multisector Bond, NonTraditional Bond, HY Muni Bond, and Short Term Bond categories.&nbsp; All of these funds carry a M* Risk Rating of "Low" in their M* categories, and I am providing Total Returns for 2020 only to highlight the correction impact.&nbsp; Please feel free to list Bond OEFs that you consider appropriate for more conservative investors, for longer term investing.</P><P>Multisector Bond OEFs</P><P>1. ANGIX/ANGLX: M* Risk Low, SD .96, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .60/.99/1.82</P><P>2. VCFAX/VCFIX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.56, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.10/.46/1.70</P><P>3. TSIAX/TSIIX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.42, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .29/.60/1.29</P><P>NonTraditional Bond OEFs</P><P>1. SEMMX/SEMPX: M* Risk Low, SD .93, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.13/.34/1.65</P><P>2. PMZIX/PMZAX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.06, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.06/.53/1/22</P><P>3. MWCIX/MWCRX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.05, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .04/.28/1.01</P><P>HY Muni Bond OEFs</P><P>1. AAHMX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.29, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.06/.60/1.55</P><P>2. PDSZX/PDSAX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.63, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .21/1.11/2.38</P><P>Short Term Bond OEFs</P><P>1. DHEAX: M* Risk Low, SD .71, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .20/.83/1.53</P><P>2. DBLSX: M* Risk Low, SD .65, 1wk/1m0/YTD Total Returns .10/.41/.85</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 19:49:08 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682227#M5100dtconroe2020-03-07T19:49:08ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682228#M5101
<P>This is what I was shooting for when I posted in the A Conservative Bond Fund Thread recently,<SPAN class="lia-message-unread"> but a new thread is a good idea. Thanks.<BR /></SPAN></P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 16:45:21 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682228#M5101DrVenture2020-03-07T16:45:21ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682260#M5102
<P>These would be some of the most conservative where ER alone can make the fund a poor choice.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>With interest rates so low now I would buy short duration. One inexpensive fund which I think is better than cash is Vanguard ultra- short term VUSFX. Baird also has a low ER fund in the ultra-short category, BUBIX; this fund now yields a bit more than the short term fund, BSBIX. It has a slightly shorter duration than VUSFX, about half a year, If I were to choose a longer duration, such as a short term fund, and could invest a minimum of $50,000, I might choose Vanguard short term investment grade, VFSUX.</P><P><SPAN>BBH Limited Duration I, </SPAN>BBBIX is another consideration, it does have a low ER and right now pays a bit over 2% yield (2.04); this may be a consideration? I prefer the Baird and Vanguard funds and personally hold VUSFX and VFSUX</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 19:50:01 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682260#M5102FatKat2020-03-07T19:50:01ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682262#M5103
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="4767"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>These would be some of the most conservative where ER alone can make the fund a poor choice.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>With interest rates so low now I would buy short duration. One inexpensive fund which I think is better than cash is Vanguard ultra- short term VUSFX. Baird also has a low ER fund in the ultra-short category, BUBIX; this fund now yields a bit more than the short term fund, BSBIX. It has a slightly shorter duration than VUSFX, about half a year, If I were to choose a longer duration, such as a short term fund, and could invest a minimum of $50,000, I might choose Vanguard short term investment grade, VFSUX.</P><P><SPAN>BBH Limited Duration I, </SPAN>BBBIX is another consideration, it does have a low ER and right now pays a bit over 2% yield (2.04); this may be a consideration? I prefer the Baird and Vanguard funds and personally hold VUSFX and VFSUX</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fat Kat, a Baird Fund that I held all of 2019, and I really like is BTMIX. You mentioned BSBIX which is a fund I also like alot. There are many many more great low risk bond oefs, than just those I mentioned.&nbsp; I purposely chose some of the more risk averse funds, just because of the current correction period that is leading some investors to sell and go to cash to a large extent.&nbsp; If this thread attracts enough interest from other posters, I expected to broaden the criteria a little more, to include an even greater number of funds.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:10:02 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682262#M5103dtconroe2020-03-07T20:10:02ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682269#M5104
<P>Thanks DT,</P><P>I also like BTMIX in a taxable account. BSBIX is a great fund for a long-term hold. I like VUSFX for my cash, as it pays close to 2%, while Vanguard Prime Money Market is now only yielding 1.54%.</P><P>The two short term funds you listed, I also hold.</P><P>I am still holding intermediate investment grade and corporate funds; they have done well, but with interests rates so low now, I might be trimming back and into these ultrashort, 'like cash' funds, for the near future.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 20:53:28 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682269#M5104FatKat2020-03-07T20:53:28ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682271#M5105
<P>The Short Term Bond Oef category is overall, a relative low risk category.&nbsp; If you step up your risk in this category, to just "Average" M* risk, there are 3 other funds that are doing very well and worth considering:</P><P>1. ANFLX: M* Average risk, SD 1.12, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Return .57/1.56/2.51</P><P>2. SDMZX: M* Average risk, SD 1.15, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Return .24/.58/1.52</P><P>3. LALDX: M* Average risk, SD .96, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Return .27/.73/1.27</P><P>Note: ANFLX Total Return is so good, it compares well to low risk multisector and nontraditional bond oefs.</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 21:29:52 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682271#M5105dtconroe2020-03-07T21:29:52ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682274#M5106
<P>FPNIX low risk e/r .50, 1wk:.30%, 13wks:1.13%,YTD:1.32%. Glad you are back posting on Morningstar. You had a great post on &nbsp;MFO on conservative bond OEF's.</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 21:34:59 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682274#M5106klucsamj2020-03-07T21:34:59ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682276#M5107
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3385"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>FPNIX low risk e/r .50, 1wk:.30%, 13wks:1.13%,YTD:1.32%. Glad you are back posting on Morningstar. You had a great post on &nbsp;MFO on conservative bond OEF's.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, FPNIX is definitely one of the lower risk options for a conservative bond oef investor.&nbsp; Hope you find this thread at M* offering some value to you.</P>Sat, 07 Mar 2020 21:46:00 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682276#M5107dtconroe2020-03-07T21:46:00ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682294#M5108
<P>DT, welcome back home !!</P><P><SPAN>ANGLX-I would be cautious about this fund. One week at 0.6% is fantastic but none of the other securitized funds (IOFIX,DPFNX,VCFAX,SEMMX) are up that much, only IOFIX was up 0.4%.&nbsp; The low SD is also deceiving.&nbsp; It's LT SD=3.1 see fund (<A href="https://angeloakcapital.com/anglx/" target="_blank" rel="noopener">link</A>). Also, look at its longer term 5 year (<A href="http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart?t=ANGLX&amp;region=usa&amp;culture=en-US&amp;dataParams=%7B%22zoomKey%22%3A8%2C%22version%22%3A%22US%22%2C%22showNav%22%3Atrue%2C%22defaultShowName%22%3A%22name%22%2C%22mainSettingId%22%3A%22main%22%2C%22navSettingId%22%3A%22nav%22%2C%22benchmarkSettingId%22%3A%22benchmark%22%2C%22sliderBgSettingId%22%3A%22sliderBg%22%2C%22volumeSettingId%22%3A%22volume%22%2C%22defaultBenchmark%22%3Afalse%2C%22id%22%3A%22F00000LQY9%7CF00000VW94%7CF00000V88B%7CF00000VXDU%7CF00000PWPR%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22FO%7CFO%7CFO%7CFO%7CFO%22%2C%22region%22%3A%22USA%22%2C%22name%22%3A%22XNAS%3AANGLX%7CXNAS%3AVCFAX%7CXNAS%3AIOFIX%7CXNAS%3ADPFNX%7CXNAS%3ASEMMX%22%2C%22baseCurrency%22%3A%22USD%22%2C%22defaultBenchmarks%22%3A%5B%22%22%2C%22%22%5D%2C%22chartType%22%3A%22growth%22%2C%22startDay%22%3A%2203%2F07%2F2015%22%2C%22endDay%22%3A%2203%2F07%2F2020%22%2C%22chartWidth%22%3A955%2C%22SMA%22%3A%5B%5D%7D" target="_blank" rel="noopener">chart</A>) and how much it fell in 2015-6.&nbsp; If you change it to 1-3 years it still trails all the funds above for 3 years and all funds, except SEMMX for 1 year.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>ANFLX bond rating at 70+% lower than IG</SPAN></P><P><SPAN><span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="qt.PNG" style="width: 355px;"><img src="https://community.morningstar.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/2664iBB7AB993E049DF30/image-size/large?v=1.0&amp;px=999" title="qt.PNG" alt="qt.PNG" /></span></SPAN></P><P><SPAN>Another serious question (I'm not trying to stir anything).&nbsp; Rates are down sharply and will stay low. Any fund that doesn't have a yield of 3+% is going to have an average performance of 2-3%. Example:&nbsp;AAHMX with 30 day SEC under 2% (and last month they cut their monthly dists) has a good chance to make about 2% (maybe 2.5%) average annually in the next several years.&nbsp; What are your thoughts about it?</SPAN></P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 21:06:15 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682294#M5108FD10012020-03-08T21:06:15ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682308#M5109
<P>dt,</P><P>Whether you post here or on MFO, your insight into bond fund activity is always appreciated. Your commentary is usually timely, actionable, and "believable", whether that is good <U>or</U> bad from a performance perspective. You also reveal what you own in real-time so there is no hiding or falsification of performance. <U><STRONG>Conversely</STRONG></U>, if I want to know what should have been owned (in hindsight), or trade funds like one changes their underwear, I can always read the other guy's self-adulation junk.</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 15:05:42 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682308#M5109VA-Tech2020-03-08T15:05:42ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682318#M5110
<P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;</P><P>Glad&nbsp;to see you back.</P><P>One question, why have you not included RPHIX (M* 5y SD .67&nbsp;and Maximum Drawdown -0.55), in the list of low risk&nbsp;funds being monitored?</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 14:13:37 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682318#M5110guilhermes2020-03-08T14:13:37ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682328#M5111
<P>FD, I started the thread, but I am not going to get into various investing or market scenarios, or funds that are appropriate for one investor vs another investor.&nbsp; The 2015/2016 period was impacted by fears of rising interest rates, and what many investors thought was the end of a flat or falling interest rate period.&nbsp; Bond oefs varied in how they performed in that period.&nbsp; I do look at that period and look at peak to trough performance, but I am careful to not presume that a fund will perform similarly or differently in current market conditions.&nbsp; Clearly 2015/2016 and 2020 are two very different market periods, and funds may perform very differently in those periods.&nbsp; Who knows what will be the factors that lead to future market conditions--who would have predicted coronavirus as market impacting factor in 2020?&nbsp; Your scenario regarding yield and total return may or may not be important going forward--I guess each investor can look at that scenario and determine how much emphasis they want to put on that scenario, when it comes to funds they want to hold.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>It is my hope that this thread will focus on bond oefs, that fit a lower risk and conservative investing style (I use Standard Deviation and M* Risk ratings extensively when I mention a fund).&nbsp; It is my hope we can focus on bond oefs that could be appropriate for holding at least a year.&nbsp; More than anything else, it is my hope that we can maintain a high degree of civility, and where there are differences of opinions, I hope those can be courteous and respectful differences of opinions.&nbsp; It is my hope that if a fund mentioned on this thread appeals to a poster/lurker, they will implement their own due diligence process to determine if they want to invest in it, or not.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 15:18:26 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682328#M5111dtconroe2020-03-08T15:18:26ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682334#M5112
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="102808"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;</P><P>Glad&nbsp;to see you back.</P><P>One question, why have you not included RPHIX (M* 5y SD .67&nbsp;and Maximum Drawdown -0.55), in the list of low risk&nbsp;funds being monitored?</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>guilhermes, I was not attempting to list all bond oefs that would be appropriate for a conservative investor.&nbsp; I just arbitrarily picked a few funds, from a few categories, to exemplify the kind of bond oefs that might fit this thread.&nbsp; RPHIX is in the HY bond oef category, and is one of the most conservative/low risk funds in that category.&nbsp; It has been around for many years, and I have read posts by other posters, who use it as a cash substitute.&nbsp; I did not mention the HY bond category in my original post, but if I would have included HY bonds, I suspect it would have been one of the examples I would have listed.&nbsp; I hope other posters will be willing to participate in the thread, as you have done, and mention funds they like/use to fit this thread subject matter.</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 15:15:45 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682334#M5112dtconroe2020-03-08T15:15:45ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682336#M5113
<P>I understand conservative has different meanings regarding bonds. Me, I dumped all managed FI OEF except PIGIX. I went all in for BND. Once this mess is behind us I plan to return to managed funds. Compare previous mentioned funds to BND for YTD and one year.&nbsp;</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 20:23:07 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682336#M5113rhythmmethod2020-03-08T20:23:07ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682340#M5114
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="7274"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>dt,</P><P>Whether you post here or on MFO, your insight into bond fund activity is always appreciated. Your commentary is usually timely, actionable, and "believable", whether that is good <U>or</U> bad from a performance perspective. You also reveal what you own in real-time so there is no hiding or falsification of performance. <U><STRONG>Conversely</STRONG></U>, if I want to know what should have been owned (in hindsight), or trade funds like one changes their underwear, I can always read the other guy's self-adulation junk.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>VA-Tech, thanks for posting.&nbsp; I hope this thread provides some value to you in your personal investing decisions.</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 15:32:15 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682340#M5114dtconroe2020-03-08T15:32:15ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682383#M5115
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3266"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I understand conservative has different meaning rhythm bonds. Me, I dumped all managed FI OEF except PIGIX. I went all in for BND. Once this mess is behind us I plan to return to managed funds. Compare previous mentioned funds to BND for YTD and one year.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I too am still holding PIGIX. My Baird holding is quite similar to the make-up of BND. Most of my other bond OEFs are short term, due to low current interest rates.</P><P>I'm not interested in bond funds, which positively correlate with the stock market.</P><P>Agree, once the market is back to its 'somewhat usual variable' behavior, I will look at managed funds. Now, I am holding onto simple broad index and aggregate funds I already hold; these and short term funds make up my bond fund holdings.</P><P>This is a good time to for due diligence for future investments.</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 18:22:53 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682383#M5115FatKat2020-03-08T18:22:53ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682397#M5116
<P>I'm a little hesitant to mention LDUR because it's an ETF, not a OEF, but it might be a short term bond alternative for those trying to avoid brokerage unavailability, transaction fees, and short term holding penalties. YTD: +2.53%, 3yr SD :0.82, 5yr SD: 1.01</P><P>Apologies if this is off topic.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 20:38:02 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682397#M5116DJANG02020-03-08T20:38:02ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682404#M5117
<P>Has anyone found muni bond funds with SD &lt;3,duration &lt; 5 and distribution yield &gt; 3% (or at least &gt; 2.7%) which have held up well in the recent market?&nbsp; BTMIX (and others that have been suggested) yield &lt;2%).&nbsp; My search on Schwab has not turned up anything but maybe I missed something.&nbsp; I currently hold NVHAX, which fits the bill, but it showed some cracks like other HY munis last week.</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 21:12:33 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682404#M5117perrywinkle2020-03-08T21:12:33ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682406#M5118
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3266"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I understand conservative has different meanings regarding bonds. Me, I dumped all managed FI OEF except PIGIX. I went all in for BND. Once this mess is behind us I plan to return to managed funds. Compare previous mentioned funds to BND for YTD and one year.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Excellent observation, especially when the Fed are telling us they are going to decrease rates + the forecast verify it (see CME 100% 0.5% <A href="https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/interest-rates/countdown-to-fomc.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener">cut</A>).</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 21:17:18 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682406#M5118FD10012020-03-08T21:17:18ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682418#M5119
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3284"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Has anyone found muni bond funds with SD &lt;3,duration &lt; 5 and distribution yield &gt; 3% (or at least &gt; 2.7%) which have held up well in the recent market?&nbsp; BTMIX (and others that have been suggested) yield &lt;2%).&nbsp; My search on Schwab has not turned up anything but maybe I missed something.&nbsp; I currently hold NVHAX, which fits the bill, but it showed some cracks like other HY munis last week.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you looked at AAHMX--its SD is 1.29, duration is 2.77, TTM distribution yield is 2.75%, has held up well in the recent market? I would also mention VWAHX--SD 2.88, Duration 6.13, TTM Distribution Yield is 3.20, and it has held up well in the recent market turmoil--I know the duration is a&nbsp; bit longer than your criteria but it is a well known Muni fund that is highly regarded.</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 22:59:19 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682418#M5119dtconroe2020-03-08T22:59:19ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682419#M5120
<P>My Old Average Bond Funds I've Hidden alot of Stoelen over paid Income $ for Yrs to this day..</P><P><STRONG>BSV-</STRONG>Short Term(But if your taller than 6ft? Sorry can't get it.</P><P><STRONG>BIV</STRONG>-Intermediate Bond fund&nbsp;</P><P><STRONG>BLV-</STRONG>Long term and beyond the grave..( Unless being Like me, creamated and I plan to have 5-$10k bundles of $50 bills burned with me just to aggravate my worthless heirs!</P><P><STRONG>GTO</STRONG>- a little New Aggressive&nbsp; Bond fund</P><P><STRONG>PCI</STRONG>-A Reckless Clsed End Fund that follows the Stock market- More like a Stock than should be a bond, but outrageous Dividends</P><P>My Biggest Surprise? My Retirement State of Wi.'s Utility&gt; <STRONG>WEC and LNT stock.</STRONG>.been adding to it every yr..since I retired back in 05'..Now over 40% in it for my trustee to play with it!</P><P>With Extra $ made from these guys( made since14')..once I got up $25k bought some TECL-300% Leveraged Techs..</P><P>but only with Extra $ you can afford to loose 50% , otherwise-R stay out!</P><P>And don't go giving $ to Charities until you die in your will..I knew some guy had $5 million and his wife spent it all and left him and he died broke and had donated over $1 million while in his last 10 yrs..!</P><P>Peace Brodder.. I'm the last of the guys that got Drafted, now, the rest all died .( of old Age) but The Good old US of ARMY gave us all a Present.. Got COPD and many of us kept on Smoking when we got out, all hooked..and I hate people who say..Thanks for your Service!&nbsp; If the troop didn't Enlist? He was Drafted and Forced to served and Shoot People!&nbsp; didn't he? so don't thank him, jusy say, your Sorry you got Drafted, but glad you did and went in , iinstead of my Dad or I wouldn't have been born..living this Good Life!&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 22:31:23 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682419#M5120RetiredLimoman2020-03-08T22:31:23ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682424#M5121
<P>I know this is OT. Hey limoman. Good to hear from you. Peace brodder, rm</P>Sun, 08 Mar 2020 22:50:34 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682424#M5121rhythmmethod2020-03-08T22:50:34ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682432#M5122
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3284"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Has anyone found muni bond funds with SD &lt;3,duration &lt; 5 and distribution yield &gt; 3% (or at least &gt; 2.7%) which have held up well in the recent market?&nbsp; BTMIX (and others that have been suggested) yield &lt;2%).&nbsp; My search on Schwab has not turned up anything but maybe I missed something.&nbsp; I currently hold NVHAX, which fits the bill, but it showed some cracks like other HY munis last week.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you looked at AAHMX--its SD is 1.29, duration is 2.77, TTM distribution yield is 2.75%, has held up well in the recent market? I would also mention VWAHX--SD 2.88, Duration 6.13, TTM Distribution Yield is 3.20, and it has held up well in the recent market turmoil--I know the duration is a&nbsp; bit longer than your criteria but it is a well known Muni fund that is highly regarded.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>:&nbsp; I did look at AAHMX based on your original post. A couple of things gave me pause.&nbsp; First, I typically stay away from funds with less than $500M in assets, particularly ones that have been around a while.&nbsp; AAHMX is $284M&nbsp; after 6+ years.&nbsp; Also, as FD mentioned, the monthly distributions seem to be trending down, which may be due to the general interest rate environment but their Q4 commentary also discussed some missteps in asset selection in the BB rated holdings.&nbsp;</P><P>Date&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Price&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Income&nbsp; ST CG&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; LT CG&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ROC&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Total</P><TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Feb 28, 2020</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.37</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0228</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0228</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Jan 31, 2020</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.33</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0217</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0217</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Dec 31, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.25</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0240</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0240</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Nov 29, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.25</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0244</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0244</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Oct 31, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.25</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0244</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0244</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Sep 30, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.25</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0240</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0240</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Aug 30, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.30</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0234</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0234</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Jul 31, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.23</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0238</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0238</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">Jun 28, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.21</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0251</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0251</SPAN></TD></TR><TR><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">May 31, 2019</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">10.21</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0243</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0000</SPAN></TD><TD><SPAN class="ng-binding">0.0243</SPAN></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P>&nbsp;</P><P>VWAHX / VWALX is a favorite long time holding of mine and has held up pretty well and I may add to it.&nbsp; It's too bad you can't buy the Admiral Shares (VWALX) at Schwab other than through an advisor.&nbsp; You also can't add to existing Admiral Shares as a retail client.&nbsp;</P><P>Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post.</P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 00:21:06 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682432#M5122perrywinkle2020-03-09T00:21:06ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682485#M5123
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="4719"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>My Old Average Bond Funds I've Hidden alot of Stoelen over paid Income $ for Yrs to this day..</P><P><STRONG>BSV-</STRONG>Short Term(But if your taller than 6ft? Sorry can't get it.</P><P><STRONG>BIV</STRONG>-Intermediate Bond fund&nbsp;</P><P><STRONG>BLV-</STRONG>Long term and beyond the grave..( Unless being Like me, creamated and I plan to have 5-$10k bundles of $50 bills burned with me just to aggravate my worthless heirs!</P><P><STRONG>GTO</STRONG>- a little New Aggressive&nbsp; Bond fund</P><P><STRONG>PCI</STRONG>-A Reckless Clsed End Fund that follows the Stock market- More like a Stock than should be a bond, but outrageous Dividends</P><P>My Biggest Surprise? My Retirement State of Wi.'s Utility&gt; <STRONG>WEC and LNT stock.</STRONG>.been adding to it every yr..since I retired back in 05'..Now over 40% in it for my trustee to play with it!</P><P>With Extra $ made from these guys( made since14')..once I got up $25k bought some TECL-300% Leveraged Techs..</P><P>but only with Extra $ you can afford to loose 50% , otherwise-R stay out!</P><P>And don't go giving $ to Charities until you die in your will..I knew some guy had $5 million and his wife spent it all and left him and he died broke and had donated over $1 million while in his last 10 yrs..!</P><P>Peace Brodder.. I'm the last of the guys that got Drafted, now, the rest all died .( of old Age) but The Good old US of ARMY gave us all a Present.. Got COPD and many of us kept on Smoking when we got out, all hooked..and I hate people who say..Thanks for your Service!&nbsp; If the troop didn't Enlist? He was Drafted and Forced to served and Shoot People!&nbsp; didn't he? so don't thank him, jusy say, your Sorry you got Drafted, but glad you did and went in , iinstead of my Dad or I wouldn't have been born..living this Good Life!&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Dennis The Menace (aka DTM, RetiredLimoman) ...&nbsp; Good to hear from you.&nbsp; Glad you are still ticking after taking a licking.&nbsp; I love your comment about about heirs.&nbsp; I feel the same way.&nbsp; Got the millennial heirs.&nbsp; Very selfish bunch.&nbsp; Hey, how and who did you decide to be your trustee and administrator of your trust.&nbsp; I need to solve that problem, probably sooner than later.&nbsp; Also, I disagree with your comment about being drafted.&nbsp; I do thank you for your service.&nbsp; You could have fled to Canada instead and&nbsp; if everybody did that where would we be???&nbsp; Ciao ciao DTM.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>P.S.&nbsp; Comment on bonds, the whole yield curve is below 1% today.&nbsp; Not a good way to make money.&nbsp; Gundlach on CNBC the other day said probably best to be in cash.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 11:02:15 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682485#M5123PaulR8882020-03-09T11:02:15ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682503#M5124
<P>Do you think he is serious about that statement? Doubleline has no MMF I am aware of. That sure sounds negative for a man in his position.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3293"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="4719"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>My Old Average Bond Funds I've Hidden alot of Stoelen over paid Income $ for Yrs to this day..</P><P><STRONG>BSV-</STRONG>Short Term(But if your taller than 6ft? Sorry can't get it.</P><P><STRONG>BIV</STRONG>-Intermediate Bond fund&nbsp;</P><P><STRONG>BLV-</STRONG>Long term and beyond the grave..( Unless being Like me, creamated and I plan to have 5-$10k bundles of $50 bills burned with me just to aggravate my worthless heirs!</P><P><STRONG>GTO</STRONG>- a little New Aggressive&nbsp; Bond fund</P><P><STRONG>PCI</STRONG>-A Reckless Clsed End Fund that follows the Stock market- More like a Stock than should be a bond, but outrageous Dividends</P><P>My Biggest Surprise? My Retirement State of Wi.'s Utility&gt; <STRONG>WEC and LNT stock.</STRONG>.been adding to it every yr..since I retired back in 05'..Now over 40% in it for my trustee to play with it!</P><P>With Extra $ made from these guys( made since14')..once I got up $25k bought some TECL-300% Leveraged Techs..</P><P>but only with Extra $ you can afford to loose 50% , otherwise-R stay out!</P><P>And don't go giving $ to Charities until you die in your will..I knew some guy had $5 million and his wife spent it all and left him and he died broke and had donated over $1 million while in his last 10 yrs..!</P><P>Peace Brodder.. I'm the last of the guys that got Drafted, now, the rest all died .( of old Age) but The Good old US of ARMY gave us all a Present.. Got COPD and many of us kept on Smoking when we got out, all hooked..and I hate people who say..Thanks for your Service!&nbsp; If the troop didn't Enlist? He was Drafted and Forced to served and Shoot People!&nbsp; didn't he? so don't thank him, jusy say, your Sorry you got Drafted, but glad you did and went in , iinstead of my Dad or I wouldn't have been born..living this Good Life!&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Dennis The Menace (aka DTM, RetiredLimoman) ...&nbsp; Good to hear from you.&nbsp; Glad you are still ticking after taking a licking.&nbsp; I love your comment about about heirs.&nbsp; I feel the same way.&nbsp; Got the millennial heirs.&nbsp; Very selfish bunch.&nbsp; Hey, how and who did you decide to be your trustee and administrator of your trust.&nbsp; I need to solve that problem, probably sooner than later.&nbsp; Also, I disagree with your comment about being drafted.&nbsp; I do thank you for your service.&nbsp; You could have fled to Canada instead and&nbsp; if everybody did that where would we be???&nbsp; Ciao ciao DTM.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>P.S.&nbsp; Comment on bonds, the whole yield curve is below 1% today.&nbsp; Not a good way to make money.&nbsp; <FONT color="#ff0000">Gundlach on CNBC the other day said probably best to be in cash.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 12:43:08 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682503#M5124Gary19522020-03-09T12:43:08ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682511#M5125
<P>Gary: "Do you think he is serious about that statement? Doubleline has no MMF I am aware of. That sure sounds negative for a man in his position."</P><P>Gundlach talks alot, but I bet he is not cashing out his holdings in his mutual funds.&nbsp; As a brokerage client at Schwab, I clearly would go to my Schwab money market account, if I decided to sell any Doubleline fund I own, which I don't.&nbsp; I suspect Gundlach, as the Chief Marketing Officer, at Doubleline, wants you to sell all your other nonDoubleline mutual funds, go to your own cash choice, and then reinvest it in Doubleline when you are ready to come out of cash.</P><P>On a more realistic note, if you wanted to stay at Doubleline in some super safe mutual fund, you would probably look at DBULX/DLUSX or DBLSX/DLSNX.&nbsp; There a number of posters who prefer the safety of an ultrashort bond oef fund, as close enough to cash.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 13:00:22 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682511#M5125dtconroe2020-03-09T13:00:22ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682514#M5126
<P>I still own DBLSX and it has behaved well during this correction. I too am at Schwab so my DBLSX would be redeemed there. It appeared to be an irresponsible statement by Gundlach but I do not know the context.&nbsp;</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Gary: "Do you think he is serious about that statement? Doubleline has no MMF I am aware of. That sure sounds negative for a man in his position."</P><P>Gundlach talks alot, but I bet he is not cashing out his holdings in his mutual funds.&nbsp; As a brokerage client at Schwab, I clearly would go to my Schwab money market account, if I decided to sell any Doubleline fund I own, which I don't.&nbsp; I suspect Gundlach, as the Chief Marketing Officer, at Doubleline, wants you to sell all your other nonDoubleline mutual funds, go to your own cash choice, and then reinvest it in Doubleline when you are ready to come out of cash.</P><P>On a more realistic note, if you wanted to stay at Doubleline in some super safe mutual fund, you would probably look at DBULX/DLUSX or DBLSX/DLSNX.&nbsp; There a number of posters who prefer the safety of an ultrashort bond oef fund, as close enough to cash.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 13:07:46 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682514#M5126Gary19522020-03-09T13:07:46ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682582#M5127
<P>Hi Gary ...&nbsp; &nbsp;I need to run out and do some things but here is full video of Gundlach with Wapner.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P><A href="https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/05/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-jeffrey-gundlach.html?&amp;qsearchterm=gUNDlach" target="_blank">https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/05/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-jeffrey-gundlach.html?&amp;qsearchterm=gUNDlach</A></P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 17:03:18 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682582#M5127PaulR8882020-03-09T17:03:18ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682638#M5128
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3293"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Hi Gary ...&nbsp; &nbsp;I need to run out and do some things but here is full video of Gundlach with Wapner.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P><A href="https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/05/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-jeffrey-gundlach.html?&amp;qsearchterm=gUNDlach" target="_blank" rel="noopener">https://www.cnbc.com/video/2020/03/05/watch-cnbcs-full-interview-with-jeffrey-gundlach.html?&amp;qsearchterm=gUNDlach</A></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gundlach lost his credibility&nbsp;when he predicted in 11/2016 that rates are going to 6% in the next 4-5 years(<A href="https://www.barrons.com/articles/gundlach-bond-yields-could-hit-6-in-five-years-1478929496" target="_blank" rel="noopener">link</A>).</P><P>I stopped listening to him years ago.</P>Mon, 09 Mar 2020 20:08:36 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682638#M5128FD10012020-03-09T20:08:36ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682680#M5129
<P>Interesting Mr. Gundlach felt we were near the bottom when the 10 year was at .9% yield. Today it is .5%. He was quite right when he said&nbsp; "you would be better off in cash" at .9%. Who doesn't know we are headed towards 0% rates?</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 10:08:41 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682680#M5129Gary19522020-03-10T10:08:41ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682682#M5130
<P><A href="https://community.morningstar.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/3334" target="_blank">@dtconroe</A> What did we/you learn today?</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 00:08:03 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682682#M5130Bobpa2020-03-10T00:08:03ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682687#M5131
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Given the recent turmoil in the markets, that has led to a correction, and threatens to become a recession, I thought it might be appropriate to start a thread for "more conservative investors".&nbsp; The thread attempts to talk about Bond OEFs, that are lower risk, in their bond categories, that might be appropriate for longer term investors, who would like to stay as fully invested as possible.&nbsp; To get started, I am listing a few funds, in the Multisector Bond, NonTraditional Bond, HY Muni Bond, and Short Term Bond categories.&nbsp; All of these funds carry a M* Risk Rating of "Low" in their M* categories, and I am providing Total Returns for 2020 only to highlight the correction impact.&nbsp; Please feel free to list Bond OEFs that you consider appropriate for more conservative investors, for longer term investing.</P><P>Multisector Bond OEFs</P><P>1. ANGIX/ANGLX: M* Risk Low, SD .96, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .60/.99/1.82</P><P>2. VCFAX/VCFIX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.56, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.10/.46/1.70</P><P>3. TSIAX/TSIIX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.42, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .29/.60/1.29</P><P>NonTraditional Bond OEFs</P><P>1. SEMMX/SEMPX: M* Risk Low, SD .93, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.13/.34/1.65</P><P>2. PMZIX/PMZAX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.06, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.06/.53/1/22</P><P>3. MWCIX/MWCRX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.05, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .04/.28/1.01</P><P>HY Muni Bond OEFs</P><P>1. AAHMX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.29, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns -.06/.60/1.55</P><P>2. PDSZX/PDSAX: M* Risk Low, SD 1.63, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .21/1.11/2.38</P><P>Short Term Bond OEFs</P><P>1. DHEAX: M* Risk Low, SD .71, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .20/.83/1.53</P><P>2. DBLSX: M* Risk Low, SD .65, 1wk/1m0/YTD Total Returns .10/.41/.85</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>We learned several lessons today</P><P>ANGLX -0.9%</P><P>TSIIX -0.92%</P><P>SEMMX -0.48%</P><P>PMZIX -0.46%</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 00:38:22 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682687#M5131FD10012020-03-10T00:38:22ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682701#M5132
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><P>1. DHEAX: M* Risk Low, SD .71, 1wk/1mo/YTD Total Returns .20/.83/1.53</P><P>2. DBLSX: M* Risk Low, SD .65, 1wk/1m0/YTD Total Returns .10/.41/.85</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I do like these above, but I do not think they are very conservative. Look at FCONX, same with FSHBX, both fit the bill. I don't own it, but I think they are conservative bond funds. I know the yield is too low at this time, but it is a very conservative. Now a nice easy one to hold is VUSFX</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 02:04:39 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682701#M5132FatKat2020-03-10T02:04:39ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682732#M5136
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="7497"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><A href="https://community.morningstar.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/3334" target="_blank" rel="noopener">@dtconroe</A> What did we/you learn today?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It was one of the worst market days in our history, and bond oefs were challenged, but not near as much as equities.&nbsp; Very conservative nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX, SEMMX, MWCIX) were down, but less than .5%, but more risky bond oefs like JMSIX, PUCZX, JMUTX were hit harder with over 1% losses.&nbsp; MUNIS held up pretty well with either a positive day or small losses.&nbsp; Short term bond oefs had a lot of inconsistency, but overall held up fairly well with most having small losses.&nbsp; I was not terribly surprised with what I saw, but hope we do not have more days like we had today.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 03:37:04 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682732#M5136dtconroe2020-03-10T03:37:04ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682733#M5137
<P>BAGIX lost a point and BCOIX lost a few points, while DODIX a few more points, therefore one might expect PIGIX to lose more, I did not check my smaller holdings of JMUIX and PUCZX, but I have not had much luck with them since the market has fallen.</P><P>I'm hanging on to short term simple bond funds until I can see what interest rates are doing.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 03:52:17 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682733#M5137FatKat2020-03-10T03:52:17ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682741#M5139
<P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp; Regarding your most excellent post on Sunday, I would like to add my thanks for sharing your insights and observations.&nbsp; I've been investing since the early 1980's, started when the DJIA was bouncing between the high 700's and low 800's, but I had never invested in an all-bond fund until about mid-2018.&nbsp; I knew next to nothing about bond funds, and while I know I have a lot more to learn, your posts have been an education for me.&nbsp; Of course, I've gleaned a lot of good information from various posters here, but I am always picking up tidbits from you.&nbsp; Thank you very much.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 08:02:26 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682741#M5139mlott12020-03-10T08:02:26ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682744#M5140
<P>I think we learned SEMMX is not a cash sub. And in general bond OEFs are not cash subs. Convexity is playing out.&nbsp;</P><P>I also learned how comforting cash positions are. My retirement is SS and me so I will never lose sight of how important cash is.&nbsp;<BR /><SPAN><BR />I am still positive in my bond funds. Do I take Gundlach’s suggestion and go to cash? He also said thing will get worse. I hope to hear what everyone thinks about that.&nbsp;</SPAN></P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:00:37 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682744#M5140Gary19522020-03-10T12:00:37ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682764#M5142
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I think we learned SEMMX is not a cash sub. <STRONG>And in general bond OEFs are not cash subs</STRONG>. Convexity is playing out.&nbsp;</P><P>I also learned how comforting cash positions are. My retirement is SS and me so I will never lose sight of how important cash is.&nbsp;<BR /><SPAN><BR />I am still positive in my bond funds. Do I take Gundlach’s suggestion and go to cash? He also said thing will get worse. I hope to hear what everyone thinks about that.&nbsp;</SPAN></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It depends on goals, how you invest and understanding of risk.&nbsp; MM will pay around 1-1.2%(currently) while DHEAX will get you around 3%. That is a great risk/reward IMO....and in most cases it's never all or nothing.&nbsp; While SEMMX lost 0.5, DHEIX lost only -0.1%.</P><P>Do I want to hold lots of cash long term? not me.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:28:16 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682764#M5142FD10012020-03-10T12:28:16ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682765#M5143
<P>I would remind posters that this thread is to discuss "low risk", not "no risk", bond oefs, for investors who are not traders, and hope to hold funds for a longer period of time of at least a year.&nbsp; There was no suggestion that these funds are "cash subs", or that when you have one the worst one day market days in our histories, low risk funds will have no losses.&nbsp; In 2019, all we were getting is outstanding performance by bond oefs, and risk was on, but 2020 is just the opposite now experiencing a major correction and going toward a potential recession.&nbsp; Panic selling in 2020 is becoming commonplace and each investor has to decide what kind of investor they want to be.</P><P>Here is what has happened to the M* Low Risk funds, that I mentioned in the OP, noting % Total Return.</P><P>Multisector Bond OEFS</P><P>1. VCFAX: 1 day -.29, 1 week -.21, YTD +1.41</P><P>2. ANGIX: 1 day -.90, 1 week -.40, YTD +.92</P><P>3. TSIAX: 1 day -.92, 1 week -.70, YTD +.33</P><P>NonTraditional Bond OEFs</P><P>1. MWCIX: 1 day -1.00, 1 week -1.03, YTD +.03</P><P>2. SEMMX: 1 day -.48, 1 week -.58, YTD +1.21</P><P>3. PMZIX: 1day -.46, 1 week -.49, YTD +.80</P><P>HY Muni Bond OEFs</P><P>1. AAHMX: 1 day -.10, 1week -.14, 1 week +.51</P><P>2. PDSZX: 1 day +.09, 1 week +.31, 1 week +2.49</P><P>Short Term Bond OEFs</P><P>1. DHEAX: 1 day -.10, 1 week +.10, YTD +1.43</P><P>2. DBLSX: 1 day -.20, 1 week -.10, YTD&nbsp; +.65</P><P>Investors who want to stay invested, will have to answer the personal question of how much they are willing to lose on one of the worst market days in our history, what kind of bond oefs that meet their risk criteria, what is an acceptable peak to trough loss they can tolerate and stay invested, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:35:53 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682765#M5143dtconroe2020-03-10T12:35:53ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682768#M5144
<P>DT, very well said.&nbsp; I find&nbsp;<SPAN>PDSZX as a good choice I didn't know about.&nbsp; More ideas/options are what we need.</SPAN></P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 12:41:27 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682768#M5144FD10012020-03-10T12:41:27ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682775#M5145
<P>2 that have been left out of the conversation.</P><P>BTMIX : 1 day .1%, 1 week .29%, YTD 1.71%</P><P>VFIJX: &nbsp; 1 day -.09%, 1 week .52%, YTD 1.99% (rarely discussed)</P><P>PDSZX looks interesting.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I would remind posters that this thread is to discuss "low risk", not "no risk", bond oefs, for investors who are not traders, and hope to hold funds for a longer period of time of at least a year.&nbsp; There was no suggestion that these funds are "cash subs", or that when you have one the worst one day market days in our histories, low risk funds will have no losses.&nbsp; In 2019, all we were getting is outstanding performance by bond oefs, and risk was on, but 2020 is just the opposite now experiencing a major correction and going toward a potential recession.&nbsp; Panic selling in 2020 is becoming commonplace and each investor has to decide what kind of investor they want to be.</P><P>Here is what has happened to the M* Low Risk funds, that I mentioned in the OP, noting % Total Return.</P><P>Multisector Bond OEFS</P><P>1. VCFAX: 1 day -.29, 1 week -.21, YTD +1.41</P><P>2. ANGIX: 1 day -.90, 1 week -.40, YTD +.92</P><P>3. TSIAX: 1 day -.92, 1 week -.70, YTD +.33</P><P>NonTraditional Bond OEFs</P><P>1. MWCIX: 1 day -1.00, 1 week -1.03, YTD +.03</P><P>2. SEMMX: 1 day -.48, 1 week -.58, YTD +1.21</P><P>3. PMZIX: 1day -.46, 1 week -.49, YTD +.80</P><P>HY Muni Bond OEFs</P><P>1. AAHMX: 1 day -.10, 1week -.14, 1 week +.51</P><P>2. PDSZX: 1 day +.09, 1 week +.31, 1 week +2.49</P><P>Short Term Bond OEFs</P><P>1. DHEAX: 1 day -.10, 1 week +.10, YTD +1.43</P><P>2. DBLSX: 1 day -.20, 1 week -.10, YTD&nbsp; +.65</P><P>Investors who want to stay invested, will have to answer the personal question of how much they are willing to lose on one of the worst market days in our history, what kind of bond oefs that meet their risk criteria, what is an acceptable peak to trough loss they can tolerate and stay invested, etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:07:03 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682775#M5145Gary19522020-03-10T13:07:03ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682778#M5146
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Very conservative nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX, SEMMX, MWCIX) were down, but less than .5%, but more risky bond oefs like JMSIX, PUCZX, JMUTX were hit harder with over 1% losses.&nbsp;&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>, It looks like ANGIX, which has low SD and volatility, dumped 0.9% as well. Not sure why it lost more than the other nontraditional oefs but yesterday was not a good day in the bond land.&nbsp; Also, ANGIX lost a lot of NAV in 2015. Maybe, some bad investments, I guess.</P><P><A href="http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart?t=angix&amp;region=usa&amp;culture=en-US&amp;dataParams=%7B%22zoomKey%22%3A9%2C%22version%22%3A%22US%22%2C%22showNav%22%3Atrue%2C%22defaultShowName%22%3A%22name%22%2C%22mainSettingId%22%3A%22main%22%2C%22navSettingId%22%3A%22nav%22%2C%22benchmarkSettingId%22%3A%22benchmark%22%2C%22sliderBgSettingId%22%3A%22sliderBg%22%2C%22volumeSettingId%22%3A%22volume%22%2C%22defaultBenchmark%22%3Afalse%2C%22id%22%3A%22F00000ONP2%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22FO%22%2C%22region%22%3A%22USA%22%2C%22name%22%3A%22XNAS%3AANGIX%22%2C%22baseCurrency%22%3A%22USD%22%2C%22defaultBenchmarks%22%3A%5B%22%22%2C%22%22%5D%2C%22chartType%22%3A%22price%22%2C%22startDay%22%3A%2208%2F16%2F2012%22%2C%22endDay%22%3A%2203%2F09%2F2020%22%2C%22chartWidth%22%3A955%2C%22SMA%22%3A%5B%5D%7D" target="_self">ANGIX Chart</A>.</P><P>And, PIMIX lost 1.76% and it looks like they have lots of high yield in their portfolio. Wow!</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:14:43 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682778#M5146RainGater2020-03-10T13:14:43ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682779#M5147
<P>Gary: 2 that have been left out of the conversation.</P><P>BTMIX : 1 day .1%, 1 week .29%, YTD 1.71%</P><P>VFIJX: &nbsp; 1 day -.09%, 1 week .52%, YTD 1.99% (rarely discussed)</P><P>Gary, those are clearly good funds in a couple of categories that could&nbsp; be alternatives to Short Term Bond OEFs.&nbsp; I did not attempt to cover all M* Bond OEF categories, and there are clearly other categories that are very low risk and great safe harbors during rocky markets.&nbsp; As you consider more risky bond oef categories (Multisector, NonTraditional, HY Muni, etc), you have to determine how much risk you are willing to take to get potentially higher returns.&nbsp; I think a lot of investors would be laughing at the possibility of selling a higher risk fund, that lost less than 1% in one of the worst market days in our history.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:19:37 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682779#M5147dtconroe2020-03-10T13:19:37ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682781#M5148
<P>TGLMX NAV remained same as the day before - higher quality mbs.</P><P>Added by Edit: This morning CNBC has it up .76%, but Vanguard had it as unchanged.&nbsp;</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:44:17 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682781#M5148jmrdnc2020-03-10T13:44:17ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682784#M5149
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3912"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Very conservative nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX, SEMMX, MWCIX) were down, but less than .5%, but more risky bond oefs like JMSIX, PUCZX, JMUTX were hit harder with over 1% losses.&nbsp;&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>, It looks like ANGIX, which has low SD and volatility, dumped 0.9% as well. Not sure why it lost more than the other nontraditional oefs but yesterday was not a good day in the bond land.&nbsp; Also, ANGIX lost a lot of NAV in 2015. Maybe, some bad investments, I guess.</P><P><A href="http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart?t=angix&amp;region=usa&amp;culture=en-US&amp;dataParams=%7B%22zoomKey%22%3A9%2C%22version%22%3A%22US%22%2C%22showNav%22%3Atrue%2C%22defaultShowName%22%3A%22name%22%2C%22mainSettingId%22%3A%22main%22%2C%22navSettingId%22%3A%22nav%22%2C%22benchmarkSettingId%22%3A%22benchmark%22%2C%22sliderBgSettingId%22%3A%22sliderBg%22%2C%22volumeSettingId%22%3A%22volume%22%2C%22defaultBenchmark%22%3Afalse%2C%22id%22%3A%22F00000ONP2%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22FO%22%2C%22region%22%3A%22USA%22%2C%22name%22%3A%22XNAS%3AANGIX%22%2C%22baseCurrency%22%3A%22USD%22%2C%22defaultBenchmarks%22%3A%5B%22%22%2C%22%22%5D%2C%22chartType%22%3A%22price%22%2C%22startDay%22%3A%2208%2F16%2F2012%22%2C%22endDay%22%3A%2203%2F09%2F2020%22%2C%22chartWidth%22%3A955%2C%22SMA%22%3A%5B%5D%7D" target="_self">ANGIX Chart</A>.</P><P>And, PIMIX lost 1.76% and it looks like they have lots of high yield in their portfolio. Wow!</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3912"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR />Very conservative nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX, SEMMX, MWCIX) were down, but less than .5%, but more risky bond oefs like JMSIX, PUCZX, JMUTX were hit harder with over 1% losses.&nbsp;&nbsp;</BLOCKQUOTE><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>, It looks like ANGIX, which has low SD and volatility, dumped 0.9% as well. Not sure why it lost more than the other nontraditional oefs but yesterday was not a good day in the bond land.&nbsp; Also, ANGIX lost a lot of NAV in 2015. Maybe, some bad investments, I guess.</P><P><A href="http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart?t=angix&amp;region=usa&amp;culture=en-US&amp;dataParams=%7B%22zoomKey%22%3A9%2C%22version%22%3A%22US%22%2C%22showNav%22%3Atrue%2C%22defaultShowName%22%3A%22name%22%2C%22mainSettingId%22%3A%22main%22%2C%22navSettingId%22%3A%22nav%22%2C%22benchmarkSettingId%22%3A%22benchmark%22%2C%22sliderBgSettingId%22%3A%22sliderBg%22%2C%22volumeSettingId%22%3A%22volume%22%2C%22defaultBenchmark%22%3Afalse%2C%22id%22%3A%22F00000ONP2%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22FO%22%2C%22region%22%3A%22USA%22%2C%22name%22%3A%22XNAS%3AANGIX%22%2C%22baseCurrency%22%3A%22USD%22%2C%22defaultBenchmarks%22%3A%5B%22%22%2C%22%22%5D%2C%22chartType%22%3A%22price%22%2C%22startDay%22%3A%2208%2F16%2F2012%22%2C%22endDay%22%3A%2203%2F09%2F2020%22%2C%22chartWidth%22%3A955%2C%22SMA%22%3A%5B%5D%7D" target="_self">ANGIX Chart</A>.</P><P>And, PIMIX lost 1.76% and it looks like they have lots of high yield in their portfolio. Wow!</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Rain, we learn a lot about Bond OEFs in times like this.&nbsp; ANGIX is in the Multisector Bond category, is predominantly invested in Securitized assets, but did not perform as well yesterday as a similar multisector bond oef VCFAX, but did outperform the JMSIX, PUCZX, JMUTX, PIMIX type funds that got hit much harder yesterday and YTD.&nbsp; ANGIX still looks like a low risk multisector bond oef for the year.&nbsp; It is all about risk/reward and whether you want to hold any multisector bond oef during terrible market periods like the one we are in.&nbsp; It is easy to be philosophical and hype very risky funds in hot markets like 2019, but in tough markets like 2020 are you willing to continue holding those hot multisector bond oefs?&nbsp; If you are a longer term investor, you should be trying to answer those questions and evaluate your investing choices.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:32:30 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682784#M5149dtconroe2020-03-10T13:32:30ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682790#M5150
<P>I question MWCIX. It has exposure to high yield and corp. bonds. I am not sure if that is a good bet at this time of the turbulent market. The 1% drop yesterday may have reflected that.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 13:56:13 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682790#M5150Gary19522020-03-10T13:56:13ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682799#M5151
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I question MWCIX. It has exposure to high yield and corp. bonds. I am not sure if that is a good bet at this time of the turbulent market. The 1% drop yesterday may have reflected that.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gary, I will confess MWCIX was one of the bigger "negative" surprises for me yesterday.&nbsp; I am not sure why but it does hold one of the highest credit array of bonds in its portfolio, being almost 92% in investment grade bonds.&nbsp; I can only guess that its 24% in Corporates must have been part of the problem.&nbsp; The other "Low" risk nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX and SEMMX) are almost all in securitized assets, and they had a better day, with about 1/2 the loss of MWCIX.&nbsp; Yesterday will push you to look in more detail at what a bond oef holds, and how well it is meeting the role you expected it to play.&nbsp; MWCIX is now flat for the year, but I expected to perform more in line with Short Term Bond Oefs, and it did not do that.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:17:00 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682799#M5151dtconroe2020-03-10T14:17:00ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682805#M5152
<P>I thought FD mentioned that JMSIX holds high credit bonds after talking with an advisor but not sure why it tanked 1.34% y'day. It was holding strong for the whole year and gave up everything on one day. I know JMSIX may not fit the bill for being a conservative fund as DT states to be the criteria for discussing it on this thread, but if the bonds are high quality, then does it qualify or very volatile?</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:28:46 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682805#M5152RainGater2020-03-10T14:28:46ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682807#M5153
<P>JMSIX has over 20% HY. I am sure that contributed to the decline. From the website, the breakdown does not look IG.</P><P>AAA 21.1%<BR />AA 0.7%<BR />A 4.4%<BR />BBB 18.8%<BR />BB 28.5%<BR />B 14.7%<BR />CCC &amp; Lower/Other 11.8%</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:35:33 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682807#M5153Gary19522020-03-10T14:35:33ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682809#M5154
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>JMSIX has over 20% HY. I am sure that contributed to the decline. From the website, the breakdown does not look IG.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I agree as that's what I see it in their website and Schwab as well. But, FD was saying that he talked to the adviser and he told him that they *recently* moved to high quality bonds and that was my question. The websites usually do NOT have the current bond holdings as there might be a 3 month lag.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 14:43:27 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682809#M5154RainGater2020-03-10T14:43:27ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682862#M5160
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3912"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I thought FD mentioned that JMSIX holds high credit bonds after talking with an advisor but not sure why it tanked 1.34% y'day. It was holding strong for the whole year and gave up everything on one day. I know JMSIX may not fit the bill for being a conservative fund as DT states to be the criteria for discussing it on this thread, but if the bonds are high quality, then does it qualify or very volatile?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not defining what conservative means to any investor.&nbsp; I started out with low SD funds that M* rated as Low Risk, but several posters have mentioned funds that met their criteria for low risk and conservative.&nbsp; &nbsp;JMSIX is probably one of those funds, similar to JMUTX and PIMIX, that meets some investors definition of conservative while others may consider them more risky.&nbsp; What I hoped this thread would do, would be a discussion thread for which Bond oefs would be worth holding for a longer period of time, even in very tough market conditions.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 17:03:09 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682862#M5160dtconroe2020-03-10T17:03:09ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682937#M5161
<P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>wrote: I am not defining what conservative means to any investor. I started out with low SD funds that M* rated as Low Risk, but several posters have mentioned funds that met their criteria for low risk and conservative. JMSIX is probably one of those funds, similar to JMUTX and PIMIX, that meets some investors definition of conservative while others may consider them more risky. What I hoped this thread would do, would be a discussion thread for which Bond oefs would be worth holding for a longer period of time, even in very tough market conditions.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>dt,</P><P>I don't know how useful it is, especially in an extremely low interest rate environment, to keep defining "conservative" on the basis of low SD and M*'s "Low Risk" rating. Sorry, but these are backward looking risk measurements that may not be very useful as a guide for the near future in this very volatile and unpredictable market environment. As a conservative and retired investor, my first order of business is to minimize any damage to my portfolio and attend to capital preservation.</P><P>I also don't know if, at this time,&nbsp; it makes sense to keep thinking of holding funds "for a longer period of time".&nbsp; A certain amount of flexibility is probably the key to survive in these "very tough market conditions". Maybe a reset in our thinking is in order?</P><P>Last week, I sold some of my past favorite OEF's like JMSIX, JMUTX, PIMIX, PUCZX, etc., and am all in cash/MM now. I will wait until I get a better sense of what may be coming down the pike, especially how well we handle the corona virus epidemic. As I said, capital preservation currently meets my comfort level.</P><P>Here, for example, are several bond OEFs that did surprisingly well yesterday and last week, but haven't received much attention on these boards. I have put them on my watchlist for future reference, even though their SD's are not exactly in the range that I have been accustomed to in the past few years. Maybe the type/quality of bonds a fund holds will be a more&nbsp; important criteria how well a fund performs in this rather unpredictable environment?</P><P>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>March 9</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>1 Week</U> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <U>YTD</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>1 YR</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <U>SD</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>Yield</U></P><P>BAGIX &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -0.08% &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1.55% &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5.40% &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 13.38%&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.64%</P><P>BCOIX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -0.33&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.09&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.67&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.84 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.94&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.85</P><P>PTTRX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -0.18&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.75&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5.50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.56 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.05&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.62</P><P>Good luck, dt. I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.</P><P>Fred</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 21:09:16 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682937#M5161fred4952020-03-10T21:09:16ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682945#M5162
<P>It is times like this I like BAGIX more than BCOIX. I use DODIX for an intermediate core plus holding. Having sold PIGIX, all I have left in the intermediate bond category is BAGIX, FTBFX, DODIX and some intermediate indexed bond funds. I also have&nbsp; some short term funds with more credit risk. I feel it depends on what kind of risk we are currently facing?&nbsp; I will probably sell more bond funds and begin to invest in some balanced funds like VWIAX.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>I don't think interest rates are going to zero, rather they will stay low and with some volatility.</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 20:23:26 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682945#M5162FatKat2020-03-10T20:23:26ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682958#M5163
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I question MWCIX. It has exposure to high yield and corp. bonds. I am not sure if that is a good bet at this time of the turbulent market. The 1% drop yesterday may have reflected that.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gary, I will confess MWCIX was one of the bigger "negative" surprises for me yesterday.&nbsp; I am not sure why but it does hold one of the highest credit array of bonds in its portfolio, being almost 92% in investment grade bonds.&nbsp; I can only guess that its 24% in Corporates must have been part of the problem.&nbsp; The other "Low" risk nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX and SEMMX) are almost all in securitized assets, and they had a better day, with about 1/2 the loss of MWCIX.&nbsp; Yesterday will push you to look in more detail at what a bond oef holds, and how well it is meeting the role you expected it to play.&nbsp; MWCIX is now flat for the year, but I expected to perform more in line with Short Term Bond Oefs, and it did not do that.</P><P>Paul:&nbsp; Gents ....&nbsp; I am a fan of unconstrained bond funds for a portion of my portfolio.&nbsp; Not just any unconstrained but one from a bond house that I am familiar with and not whole hog.&nbsp; 25% is my target and MWCIX is perfectly fine in that role.&nbsp; It is designed to shine when rates go up as it shuns interest rate risk and takes on credit risk.&nbsp; It did not shine yesterday but I would not expect it to.&nbsp; A little zig zag is what you want in a diversified portfolio.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR /><BR /></P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 21:04:17 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682958#M5163PaulR8882020-03-10T21:04:17ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682977#M5165
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>wrote: I am not defining what conservative means to any investor. I started out with low SD funds that M* rated as Low Risk, but several posters have mentioned funds that met their criteria for low risk and conservative. JMSIX is probably one of those funds, similar to JMUTX and PIMIX, that meets some investors definition of conservative while others may consider them more risky. What I hoped this thread would do, would be a discussion thread for which Bond oefs would be worth holding for a longer period of time, even in very tough market conditions.</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>dt,</P><P>I don't know how useful it is, especially in an extremely low interest rate environment, to keep defining "conservative" on the basis of low SD and M*'s "Low Risk" rating. Sorry, but these are backward looking risk measurements that may not be very useful as a guide for the near future in this very volatile and unpredictable market environment. As a conservative and retired investor, my first order of business is to minimize any damage to my portfolio and attend to capital preservation.</P><P>I also don't know if, at this time,&nbsp; it makes sense to keep thinking of holding funds "for a longer period of time".&nbsp; A certain amount of flexibility is probably the key to survive in these "very tough market conditions". Maybe a reset in our thinking is in order?</P><P>Last week, I sold some of my past favorite OEF's like JMSIX, JMUTX, PIMIX, PUCZX, etc., and am all in cash/MM now. I will wait until I get a better sense of what may be coming down the pike, especially how well we handle the corona virus epidemic. As I said, capital preservation currently meets my comfort level.</P><P>Here, for example, are several bond OEFs that did surprisingly well yesterday and last week, but haven't received much attention on these boards. I have put them on my watchlist for future reference, even though their SD's are not exactly in the range that I have been accustomed to in the past few years. Maybe the type/quality of bonds a fund holds will be a more&nbsp; important criteria how well a fund performs in this rather unpredictable environment?</P><P>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>March 9</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>1 Week</U> &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <U>YTD</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>1 YR</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <U>SD</U> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <U>Yield</U></P><P>BAGIX &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; -0.08% &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1.55% &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5.40% &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 13.38%&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.12&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.64%</P><P>BCOIX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -0.33&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.09&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 4.67&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.84 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.94&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 2.85</P><P>PTTRX&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; -0.18&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 1.75&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 5.50&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 12.56 &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.05&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 3.62</P><P>Good luck, dt. I always enjoy reading your thoughtful posts.</P><P>Fred</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi Fred, nice to hear from you.&nbsp; Sounds like a great timing decision on your recent sells. I always value your posts, so I will look forward to whatever you want to contribute to this thread.&nbsp; &nbsp;</P>Tue, 10 Mar 2020 22:11:24 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682977#M5165dtconroe2020-03-10T22:11:24ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682991#M5167
<P>I would be concerned about the corporates it holds in the face of a looming possible recession. &nbsp;2% in 2 days was quite a zig. It was the worst performer I had.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3293"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I question MWCIX. It has exposure to high yield and corp. bonds. I am not sure if that is a good bet at this time of the turbulent market. The 1% drop yesterday may have reflected that.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gary, I will confess MWCIX was one of the bigger "negative" surprises for me yesterday.&nbsp; I am not sure why but it does hold one of the highest credit array of bonds in its portfolio, being almost 92% in investment grade bonds.&nbsp; I can only guess that its 24% in Corporates must have been part of the problem.&nbsp; The other "Low" risk nontraditional bond oefs (PMZIX and SEMMX) are almost all in securitized assets, and they had a better day, with about 1/2 the loss of MWCIX.&nbsp; Yesterday will push you to look in more detail at what a bond oef holds, and how well it is meeting the role you expected it to play.&nbsp; MWCIX is now flat for the year, but I expected to perform more in line with Short Term Bond Oefs, and it did not do that.</P><P>Paul:&nbsp; Gents ....&nbsp; I am a fan of unconstrained bond funds for a portion of my portfolio.&nbsp; Not just any unconstrained but one from a bond house that I am familiar with and not whole hog.&nbsp; 25% is my target and MWCIX is perfectly fine in that role.&nbsp; It is designed to shine when rates go up as it shuns interest rate risk and takes on credit risk.&nbsp; It did not shine yesterday but I would not expect it to.&nbsp; A little zig zag is what you want in a diversified portfolio.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR /><BR /></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 00:01:01 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682991#M5167Gary19522020-03-11T00:01:01ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682997#M5169
<P>Well, <LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>, that just shows to go you, the three funds that I cited in my previous post, BAGIX, BCOIX and PTTRX, that did so well yesterday got clobbered today as interest rates rose. So far, the only bond OEF that has shown any kind of daily performance consistency recently seems to be DHEIX. I may consider putting some of my cash into this short term fund.</P><P>Otherwise, at this point, I can only concur with Lamar who wrote on another thread:</P><P><EM>"I have been fearful of OEF bonds for some time. Last week I sold most OEF bond funds. Today I sold the remainder. My equity positions were sold earlier this year.</EM></P><P><EM>Today almost 100% of my investments are in the only asset class currently providing a profit; ie Cash.</EM></P><P><EM>Going forward, I think one can only profit from equities. The world as we knew it does not exist anymore.</EM></P><P><EM>Any future equity purchases will be small targeted investments. No asset allocation. No buy and hold. Only buy and watch ..."</EM></P><P>Sorry, dt, hope I didn't take your thread too far off topic. But, these are unusual times. These extremely low interest rates, and the unknowns associated with the spread of the corona virus, may require a significantly different investment strategy. What has worked well in the past may no longer do the job.</P><P>Good luck,</P><P>Fred</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 00:31:10 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/682997#M5169fred4952020-03-11T00:31:10ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683000#M5170
<P>clobbered it right.&nbsp; yoikes!</P><P><span class="lia-inline-image-display-wrapper lia-image-align-inline" image-alt="Firefox_Screenshot_2020-03-11T00-29-52.887Z.png" style="width: 999px;"><img src="https://community.morningstar.com/t5/image/serverpage/image-id/2692iBEC0DA1EA1FA97BD/image-size/large?v=1.0&amp;px=999" title="Firefox_Screenshot_2020-03-11T00-29-52.887Z.png" alt="Firefox_Screenshot_2020-03-11T00-29-52.887Z.png" /></span></P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 00:30:47 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683000#M5170fffloyddd2020-03-11T00:30:47ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683004#M5172
<P>Gary ... I can only comment on what Gundlach said in his May 14, 2019 webcast.&nbsp; He said DFLEX doing OK because no sign of recession.&nbsp; He hopes to sniff out a coming recession 4 to 6 months ahead and he will change the portfolio within 2 months if he sees recession coming.&nbsp; He said DFLEX is more actively managed than DBLTX.&nbsp; I assume MetWest PMs will do same.&nbsp; They are all seasoned bond PMs doing this stuff for a long time over multiple business cycles.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>DFLEX hurt me too but was not even my worst performer.&nbsp; Pimco Income and Diversified Income both have higher EM% and HY% and did worse.&nbsp; But like I said, I have not designed a portfolio with funds that all look alike and doing best in short run.&nbsp; I can live with each funds historical annual results.&nbsp; That is the best I can do.</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 00:52:40 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683004#M5172PaulR8882020-03-11T00:52:40ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683023#M5174
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Well, <LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>, that just shows to go you, the three funds that I cited in my previous post, BAGIX, BCOIX and PTTRX, that did so well yesterday got clobbered today as interest rates rose. So far, the only bond OEF that has shown any kind of daily performance consistency recently seems to be DHEIX. I may consider putting some of my cash into this short term fund.</P><P>Otherwise, at this point, I can only concur with Lamar who wrote on another thread:</P><P><EM>"I have been fearful of OEF bonds for some time. Last week I sold most OEF bond funds. Today I sold the remainder. My equity positions were sold earlier this year.</EM></P><P><EM>Today almost 100% of my investments are in the only asset class currently providing a profit; ie Cash.</EM></P><P><EM>Going forward, I think one can only profit from equities. The world as we knew it does not exist anymore.</EM></P><P><EM>Any future equity purchases will be small targeted investments. No asset allocation. No buy and hold. Only buy and watch ..."</EM></P><P>Sorry, dt, hope I didn't take your thread too far off topic. But, these are unusual times. These extremely low interest rates, and the unknowns associated with the spread of the corona virus, may require a significantly different investment strategy. What has worked well in the past may no longer do the job.</P><P>Good luck,</P><P>Fred</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Fred, I really appreciate your posting.&nbsp; We all need to process how to manage our investing decisions in this tough market.&nbsp; So, thanks for sharing your thoughts and look forward to any thread contributions you choose to make in the future.</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 02:50:15 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683023#M5174dtconroe2020-03-11T02:50:15ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683029#M5175
<P>Last year I posted that&nbsp;<SPAN>MWCIX had a unique 2019 and based on my research I don't see this fund doing anything close to previous years or keep up with the best funds.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>ANGIX/ANGLX-I mentioned it's potential volatility and it happened.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>DHEIX/DHEAX - I continue to think this fund is the best "cash sub" when you look at risk/reward&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;80+% IG bonds&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;yield. Yes, I know, it's not really a cash sub but it's worth it for some of your money.&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>EIXIX - I mentioned it last year.&nbsp; I had several discussions with the head manager, Leland Abrams.&nbsp; I learned that he puts a lot of emphasizing on selecting higher-rated securitized than IOFIX (he specifically mention it) but also looking at dampening the volatility using IO(interest only) which are good when rates are rising.&nbsp; It took him about 6 months to build the concept to its full potential. I know that many don't think 14 months on the job is enough but I look mainly at results and so far it looks pretty good including the last 2 weeks.&nbsp; BTW, today when most bond OEFs lost money, EIXIX made money. I think this fund fits the profile of this thread and the yield is over 4.5%.&nbsp; This is 3 months (<A href="http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart?t=eixix&amp;region=usa&amp;culture=en_US&amp;dataParams=%7B%22zoomKey%22%3A4%2C%22version%22%3A%22US%22%2C%22showNav%22%3Atrue%2C%22defaultShowName%22%3A%22name%22%2C%22mainSettingId%22%3A%22main%22%2C%22navSettingId%22%3A%22nav%22%2C%22benchmarkSettingId%22%3A%22benchmark%22%2C%22sliderBgSettingId%22%3A%22sliderBg%22%2C%22volumeSettingId%22%3A%22volume%22%2C%22defaultBenchmark%22%3Afalse%2C%22id%22%3A%22F00001151W%7CF00000PWPR%7CF00000VW94%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22FO%7CFO%7CFO%22%2C%22region%22%3A%22USA%22%2C%22name%22%3A%22XNAS%3AEIXIX%7CXNAS%3ASEMMX%7CXNAS%3AVCFAX%22%2C%22baseCurrency%22%3A%22USD%22%2C%22defaultBenchmarks%22%3A%5B%22%22%2C%22%22%5D%2C%22chartType%22%3A%22growth%22%2C%22startDay%22%3A%2212%2F10%2F2019%22%2C%22endDay%22%3A%2203%2F10%2F2020%22%2C%22chartWidth%22%3A955%2C%22SMA%22%3A%5B%5D%7D" target="_blank" rel="noopener">chart</A>).</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>The following comparison by Por Vis since 5/31/19 to 2/29/2020 (<A href="https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&amp;timePeriod=2&amp;startYear=2019&amp;firstMonth=6&amp;endYear=2020&amp;lastMonth=12&amp;calendarAligned=true&amp;initialAmount=10000&amp;annualOperation=0&amp;annualAdjustment=0&amp;inflationAdjusted=true&amp;annualPercentage=0.0&amp;frequency=4&amp;rebalanceType=1&amp;absoluteDeviation=5.0&amp;relativeDeviation=25.0&amp;showYield=false&amp;reinvestDividends=true&amp;benchmark=-1&amp;benchmarkSymbol=EIXIX&amp;symbol1=VCFAX&amp;allocation1_1=100&amp;symbol2=IOFIX&amp;allocation2_2=100&amp;symbol3=SEMMX&amp;allocation3_3=100" target="_blank" rel="noopener">link</A>).&nbsp; I included 3 other securitized funds just for comparison and I know (VCFAX,IOFIX) are too volatile for this thread although the last 2 weeks proved they are not ;-)&nbsp;</SPAN></P><TABLE border="0" width="512" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><TBODY><TR><TD width="64" height="61">Portfolio</TD><TD width="64">Return</TD><TD width="64">Stdev</TD><TD width="64">Best Year</TD><TD width="64">Worst Year</TD><TD width="64">Max. Drawdown</TD><TD width="64">Sharpe Ratio</TD><TD width="64">Sortino Ratio</TD></TR><TR><TD height="22">VCFAX</TD><TD>4.24%&nbsp;</TD><TD>1.65%</TD><TD>2.40%</TD><TD>1.80%</TD><TD>-0.03%&nbsp;</TD><TD>2.26</TD><TD>13.84</TD></TR><TR><TD height="21">IOFIX</TD><TD>9.95%&nbsp;</TD><TD>2.54%</TD><TD>6.90%</TD><TD>2.85%</TD><TD>0.00%</TD><TD>4.32</TD><TD>72.56</TD></TR><TR><TD height="21">SEMMX</TD><TD>3.95%&nbsp;</TD><TD>1.22%</TD><TD>2.13%</TD><TD>1.78%</TD><TD>0.00%</TD><TD>2.7</TD><TD>113.5</TD></TR><TR><TD width="64" height="20">EIXIX</TD><TD>5.45%&nbsp;</TD><TD><STRONG>0.92%</STRONG></TD><TD>3.74%</TD><TD>1.64%</TD><TD>0.00%</TD><TD>5.58</TD><TD>280.96</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>I think you can hold both DHEIX and EIXIX longer term.&nbsp; The usual, the above isn't a recommendation and there is no guarantee.</SPAN></P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 04:02:40 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683029#M5175FD10012020-03-11T04:02:40ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683033#M5176
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><SPAN>DHEIX/DHEAX - I continue to think this fund is the best "cash sub" when you look at risk/reward&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;80+% IG bonds&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;yield. Yes, I know, it's not really a cash sub but it's worth it for some of your money.&nbsp;</SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks, FD. But, I would use this fund not just as a "cash sub", it is also an excellent conservative bond OEF hat one could hold for a longer period of time. It may be particularly appropriate during the current unpredictable market environment.</P><P>Unfortunately, at Fidelity DHEAX is apparently only available with a 2.25% load. The search goes on ...</P><P>Fred</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 04:56:01 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683033#M5176fred4952020-03-11T04:56:01ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683053#M5177
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><SPAN>DHEIX/DHEAX - I continue to think this fund is the best "cash sub" when you look at risk/reward&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;80+% IG bonds&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;yield. Yes, I know, it's not really a cash sub but it's worth it for some of your money.&nbsp;</SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks, FD. But, I would use this fund not just as a "cash sub", it is also an excellent conservative bond OEF hat one could hold for a longer period of time. It may be particularly appropriate during the current unpredictable market environment.</P><P>Unfortunately, at Fidelity DHEAX is apparently only available with a 2.25% load. The search goes on ...</P><P>Fred</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Absolutely. <SPAN>I can see DHEAX making 3% annually, SEMMX,EIXIX,VCFAX 4-4.5%, IOFIX 5+%.</SPAN></P><P><A title="Diamond Hill Short Duration Total Return Fund - Class I" target="_blank">At Schwab</A></P><P><A title="Diamond Hill Short Duration Total Return Fund - Class I" target="_blank">DHEIX</A><SPAN>&nbsp;isn't available - only to institutions.</SPAN><BR /><A title="Diamond Hill Short Duration Total Return Fund - Class A" target="_blank">DHEAX</A><SPAN>-free to buy, min $2500, 90 days early redemption fee at $49.95</SPAN>&nbsp;</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:42:12 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683053#M5177FD10012020-03-11T12:42:12ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683058#M5178
<P>Totally ridiculous to charge 2.25% and give up most of the first year's gain.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><SPAN>DHEIX/DHEAX - I continue to think this fund is the best "cash sub" when you look at risk/reward&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;80+% IG bonds&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;yield. Yes, I know, it's not really a cash sub but it's worth it for some of your money.&nbsp;</SPAN></P></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks, FD. But, I would use this fund not just as a "cash sub", it is also an excellent conservative bond OEF hat one could hold for a longer period of time. It may be particularly appropriate during the current unpredictable market environment.</P><P>Unfortunately, at Fidelity DHEAX is apparently only available with a 2.25% load. The search goes on ...</P><P>Fred</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:17:00 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683058#M5178Gary19522020-03-11T12:17:00ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683062#M5179
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Last year I posted that&nbsp;<SPAN>MWCIX had a unique 2019 and based on my research I don't see this fund doing anything close to previous years or keep up with the best funds.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>ANGIX/ANGLX-I mentioned it's potential volatility and it happened.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>DHEIX/DHEAX - I continue to think this fund is the best "cash sub" when you look at risk/reward&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;80+% IG bonds&nbsp; &nbsp;+&nbsp; &nbsp;yield. Yes, I know, it's not really a cash sub but it's worth it for some of your money.&nbsp;</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>EIXIX - I mentioned it last year.&nbsp; I had several discussions with the head manager, Leland Abrams.&nbsp; I learned that he puts a lot of emphasizing on selecting higher-rated securitized than IOFIX (he specifically mention it) but also looking at dampening the volatility using IO(interest only) which are good when rates are rising.&nbsp; It took him about 6 months to build the concept to its full potential. I know that many don't think 14 months on the job is enough but I look mainly at results and so far it looks pretty good including the last 2 weeks.&nbsp; BTW, today when most bond OEFs lost money, EIXIX made money. I think this fund fits the profile of this thread and the yield is over 4.5%.&nbsp; This is 3 months (<A href="http://quotes.morningstar.com/chart/fund/chart?t=eixix&amp;region=usa&amp;culture=en_US&amp;dataParams=%7B%22zoomKey%22%3A4%2C%22version%22%3A%22US%22%2C%22showNav%22%3Atrue%2C%22defaultShowName%22%3A%22name%22%2C%22mainSettingId%22%3A%22main%22%2C%22navSettingId%22%3A%22nav%22%2C%22benchmarkSettingId%22%3A%22benchmark%22%2C%22sliderBgSettingId%22%3A%22sliderBg%22%2C%22volumeSettingId%22%3A%22volume%22%2C%22defaultBenchmark%22%3Afalse%2C%22id%22%3A%22F00001151W%7CF00000PWPR%7CF00000VW94%22%2C%22type%22%3A%22FO%7CFO%7CFO%22%2C%22region%22%3A%22USA%22%2C%22name%22%3A%22XNAS%3AEIXIX%7CXNAS%3ASEMMX%7CXNAS%3AVCFAX%22%2C%22baseCurrency%22%3A%22USD%22%2C%22defaultBenchmarks%22%3A%5B%22%22%2C%22%22%5D%2C%22chartType%22%3A%22growth%22%2C%22startDay%22%3A%2212%2F10%2F2019%22%2C%22endDay%22%3A%2203%2F10%2F2020%22%2C%22chartWidth%22%3A955%2C%22SMA%22%3A%5B%5D%7D" target="_blank" rel="noopener">chart</A>).</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>The following comparison by Por Vis since 5/31/19 to 2/29/2020 (<A href="https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&amp;timePeriod=2&amp;startYear=2019&amp;firstMonth=6&amp;endYear=2020&amp;lastMonth=12&amp;calendarAligned=true&amp;initialAmount=10000&amp;annualOperation=0&amp;annualAdjustment=0&amp;inflationAdjusted=true&amp;annualPercentage=0.0&amp;frequency=4&amp;rebalanceType=1&amp;absoluteDeviation=5.0&amp;relativeDeviation=25.0&amp;showYield=false&amp;reinvestDividends=true&amp;benchmark=-1&amp;benchmarkSymbol=EIXIX&amp;symbol1=VCFAX&amp;allocation1_1=100&amp;symbol2=IOFIX&amp;allocation2_2=100&amp;symbol3=SEMMX&amp;allocation3_3=100" target="_blank" rel="noopener">link</A>).&nbsp; I included 3 other securitized funds just for comparison and I know (VCFAX,IOFIX) are too volatile for this thread although the last 2 weeks proved they are not ;-)&nbsp;</SPAN></P><TABLE border="0" width="512" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><TBODY><TR><TD width="64" height="61">Portfolio</TD><TD width="64">Return</TD><TD width="64">Stdev</TD><TD width="64">Best Year</TD><TD width="64">Worst Year</TD><TD width="64">Max. Drawdown</TD><TD width="64">Sharpe Ratio</TD><TD width="64">Sortino Ratio</TD></TR><TR><TD height="22">VCFAX</TD><TD>4.24%&nbsp;</TD><TD>1.65%</TD><TD>2.40%</TD><TD>1.80%</TD><TD>-0.03%&nbsp;</TD><TD>2.26</TD><TD>13.84</TD></TR><TR><TD height="21">IOFIX</TD><TD>9.95%&nbsp;</TD><TD>2.54%</TD><TD>6.90%</TD><TD>2.85%</TD><TD>0.00%</TD><TD>4.32</TD><TD>72.56</TD></TR><TR><TD height="21">SEMMX</TD><TD>3.95%&nbsp;</TD><TD>1.22%</TD><TD>2.13%</TD><TD>1.78%</TD><TD>0.00%</TD><TD>2.7</TD><TD>113.5</TD></TR><TR><TD width="64" height="20">EIXIX</TD><TD>5.45%&nbsp;</TD><TD><STRONG>0.92%</STRONG></TD><TD>3.74%</TD><TD>1.64%</TD><TD>0.00%</TD><TD>5.58</TD><TD>280.96</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><P>&nbsp;</P><P><SPAN>I think you can hold both DHEIX and EIXIX longer term.&nbsp; The usual, the above isn't a recommendation and there is no guarantee.</SPAN></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>FD, I think it is fine for posters to disagree with what may be acceptable bond oef funds for ownership during this market meltdown.&nbsp; I am not sure why you think VCFAX is "too volatile for this thread".&nbsp; VCFAX was one of the funds I listed in the original post that had a low SD and rated as "Low" risk by M*, in the multisector bond oef category.&nbsp; Secondly, you seem to have this negative bias for ANGIX, just because it had a performance issue in the 2015/2016 interest rate temper tantrum--that was pretty common with many funds that existed in the interest rate temper tantrum period.&nbsp; ANGIX has been an almost model for low risk performance since then, and even in this current market meltdown, it was positive yesterday and down only about .6% in the last week--very close to your IOFIX recommendation in this market meltdown performance.&nbsp; IOFIX is one of the more controversial funds that has been evaluated--some love it and intend to hold it, but other very respected posters look at its underlying holdings as some of the most risky in the mortgage market.&nbsp; Both IOFIX and EIXIX are relatively new funds, but if their short term performance is sufficient for investors to want to own it in this period, and maybe longer term, that is fine and their prerogative.&nbsp; Regarding MWCIX, I do agree that its performance so far in this market meltdown has been surprisingly worse than I anticipated, but on a relative basis it has still only had about a 1% loss in one of the worst market meltdowns in our history.&nbsp; I am curious if you think you think a 1% loss for a fund, in one of the worst market meltdowns in our history, is always a sell signal.</P><P>I guess I will also note that your "warnings" about MWCIX in 2019 appeared to be based on your argument that your list of the best funds (PUCZX, JMUTX, JMSIX) were relatively safe with SDs around 2, and better choices to own than MWCIX.&nbsp; There were many of us who were very concerned about PUCZX, JMUTX, and JMSIX, and were "warning" others that it would be virtually impossible for these funds to sustain their record 2019 performance going forward.&nbsp; &nbsp;</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 13:36:53 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683062#M5179dtconroe2020-03-11T13:36:53ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683064#M5180
<P>FD: "<EM>looking at dampening the volatility using IO(interest only) which are good when rates are rising</EM>"</P><P>IOs are among the most volatile and risky MBS derivatives. To use them to dampen volatility is a high-wire act. I have warned about funds using them. Sure, those go up with rising rates but may collapse with falling rates [and re-fi]. Posters should brush up on IOs and POs [these behave more like MBS].</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:52:39 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683064#M5180yogibearbull2020-03-11T12:52:39ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683066#M5181
<P>DT,&nbsp;</P><P>VCFAX-I missed the fact you listed it in the OP.&nbsp;</P><P>IOFIX isn't "new" anymore, it has close to 5 years.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>To the question of "<SPAN>&nbsp;I am curious if you think you should sell a fund with a 1% loss in one of worst market meltdowns in our history, what is your sell criteria for a longer term investor?"&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN>whatever answer I will give I will be accused as a trader.&nbsp; This OP is about longer term investing.&nbsp; All I will say is the following: in specific situations and markets cash is a good choice.&nbsp; Investing is not an accurate science and why you can (if you like) be flexible.</SPAN></P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 12:54:45 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683066#M5181FD10012020-03-11T12:54:45ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683078#M5183
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>DT,&nbsp;</P><P>VCFAX-I missed the fact you listed it in the OP.&nbsp;</P><P>IOFIX isn't "new" anymore, it has close to 5 years.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>To the question of "<SPAN>&nbsp;I am curious if you think you should sell a fund with a 1% loss in one of worst market meltdowns in our history, what is your sell criteria for a longer term investor?"&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN>whatever answer I will give I will be accused as a trader.&nbsp; This OP is about longer term investing.&nbsp; All I will say is the following: in specific situations and markets cash is a good choice.&nbsp; Investing is not an accurate science and why you can (if you like) be flexible.</SPAN></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not labeling anyone on this thread as any type of investor. You are welcome to offer your thoughts about appropriate funds for holding for a longer term, but regardless of how you invest, you were pushing PUCZX, JMSIX, JMUTX in 2019, as better and relatively safe choices compared to MWCIX, frequently citing their SD being around 2.&nbsp; In less than 6 months, those funds have fallen from grace and do not appear on your list.&nbsp; Many of us were issuing our own warnings in 2019 about the riskiness of PUCZX, JMSIX, and JMUTX because of their record double digit performance in 2019 not being sustainable.</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 13:46:09 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683078#M5183dtconroe2020-03-11T13:46:09ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683090#M5184
<P>Interest rates have been dropping for a year now with no apparent effect on a popular fund that has done well this year. But the recent drops have been precipitous heading towards 0%.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3258"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>FD: "<EM>looking at dampening the volatility using IO(interest only) which are good when rates are rising</EM>"</P><P>IOs are among the most volatile and risky MBS derivatives. To use them to dampen volatility is a high-wire act. I have warned about funds using them. Sure, those go up with rising rates but may collapse with falling rates [and re-fi]. Posters should brush up on IOs and POs [these behave more like MBS].</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 14:21:58 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683090#M5184Gary19522020-03-11T14:21:58ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683098#M5185
<P>Just to open up consideration for some other lower risk funds, as possible investments in this tough market, I will offer up FPFIX as a fund worth considering.&nbsp; It is a newer nontraditional bond oef that is only a little over 1 year old, so it did not show up in my original posting list.&nbsp; But it is from FPA, known for its very risk averse investing with funds like FPACX and FPNIX.&nbsp; It has done well in this latest market meltdown, and its lead manager has&nbsp; over $1million of his own money in the fund.&nbsp; This new fund still has a small asset base, and ER of .39, and has plenty of flexibility to maneuver through this terrible market with a history of risk averse investing.&nbsp; It does require a $100K initial investment at Schwab in a regular account, but in an IRA account it can be purchased for $5K.</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:00:24 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683098#M5185dtconroe2020-03-11T21:00:24ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683142#M5186
<P><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp; Your post yesterday in which you quoted Lamar, that pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, and that is why I have sell orders for all three of my bond OEFs.&nbsp; I also think that future income is probably going to have to come more from stock dividends, so I'm trying to load up during this current downturn.&nbsp; I would love to just sit back with a predominately bond OEF portfolio, but I just don't see it, what with interest rates constantly coming down, and the world awash in money looking for a safe home, no matter how low the rates. &nbsp;</P><P>When things change and I no longer understand the game, it seems logical to&nbsp; move on. &nbsp;</P><P>"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent,&nbsp;<EM>but the ones most responsive to change". &nbsp;</EM>Charles Darwin</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:15:30 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683142#M5186mlott12020-03-11T18:15:30ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683146#M5187
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3365"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp; Your post yesterday in which you quoted Lamar, that pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, and that is why I have sell orders for all three of my bond OEFs.&nbsp; I also think that future income is probably going to have to come more from stock dividends, so I'm trying to load up during this current downturn.&nbsp; I would love to just sit back with a predominately bond OEF portfolio, but I just don't see it, what with interest rates constantly coming down, and the world awash in money looking for a safe home, no matter how low the rates. &nbsp;</P><P>When things change and I no longer understand the game, it seems logical to&nbsp; move on. &nbsp;</P><P>"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent,&nbsp;<EM>but the ones most responsive to change". &nbsp;</EM>Charles Darwin</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>mlott, you and most of the world owns PIMIX and always reference its .0555 dividend, that has been consistently paid forever.&nbsp; Are you in the camp now, that PIMIX will be lowering their .0555 dividend that so many investors reference as their reason for holding PIMIX through thick and thin?</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:24:31 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683146#M5187dtconroe2020-03-11T18:24:31ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683151#M5188
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3408"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>DT,&nbsp;</P><P>VCFAX-I missed the fact you listed it in the OP.&nbsp;</P><P>IOFIX isn't "new" anymore, it has close to 5 years.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>To the question of "<SPAN>&nbsp;I am curious if you think you should sell a fund with a 1% loss in one of worst market meltdowns in our history, what is your sell criteria for a longer term investor?"&nbsp; </SPAN><SPAN>whatever answer I will give I will be accused as a trader.&nbsp; This OP is about longer term investing.&nbsp; All I will say is the following: in specific situations and markets cash is a good choice.&nbsp; Investing is not an accurate science and why you can (if you like) be flexible.</SPAN></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I am not labeling anyone on this thread as any type of investor. You are welcome to offer your thoughts about appropriate funds for holding for a longer term, but regardless of how you invest, <STRONG>you were pushing PUCZX, JMSIX, JMUTX in 2019, as better and <FONT color="#FF0000">relatively safe choices</FONT> <FONT color="#FF0000">compared to MWCIX</FONT>, frequently citing their SD being around 2.</STRONG>&nbsp; In less than 6 months, those funds have fallen from grace and do not appear on your list.&nbsp; Many of us were issuing our own warnings in 2019 about the riskiness of PUCZX, JMSIX, and JMUTX because of their record double digit performance in 2019 not being sustainable.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>All you need to show is where I said the above. I bet you don't find it.</P><P>I looked thru several threads and found posts like this from&nbsp;<SPAN class="local-date">‎08-06-2019</SPAN><SPAN>&nbsp;</SPAN><SPAN class="local-time">03:29 PM</SPAN></P><P><SPAN class="local-time"><SPAN>Someone with low % in stocks (or none) and using several funds should have no problem holding LT funds like 1) Multi=SEMMX,JMUTX,VCFAX,JGIAX/JMSIX(I would delete PIMIX from this list)&nbsp; 2) Muni=GHYAX,MMHAX,PHMIX.&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></P><P>"<STRONG>I can't see why any retiree would go for his/her total portfolio to make 3-4% when you can make 4.5-5% using only bond OEFs and still have a total portfolio with SD&lt;3.&nbsp; The following is a 3 year 5 fund generic portfolio(<A href="https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&amp;timePeriod=2&amp;startYear=2016&amp;firstMonth=8&amp;endYear=2019&amp;lastMonth=12&amp;calendarAligned=true&amp;initialAmount=10000&amp;annualOperation=0&amp;annualAdjustment=0&amp;inflationAdjusted=true&amp;annualPercentage=0.0&amp;frequency=4&amp;rebalanceType=1&amp;absoluteDeviation=5.0&amp;relativeDeviation=25.0&amp;showYield=false&amp;reinvestDividends=true&amp;sameFees=true&amp;symbol1=JMUTX&amp;allocation1_1=20&amp;symbol2=JMSIX&amp;allocation2_1=20&amp;symbol3=VCFAX&amp;allocation3_1=20&amp;symbol4=SEMMX&amp;allocation4_1=20&amp;symbol5=GHYAX&amp;allocation5_1=20&amp;total1=100&amp;total2=0&amp;total3=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer">link</A>) that I created with SD &lt; 2.&nbsp; &nbsp;This portfolio yield is above 4% which is another plus.&nbsp; I think this portfolio can make 4.5-5% annually in the next several years.&nbsp; You can add/replace funds with PUCZX and PDIIX(riskier) and/or 10-20% stocks (or even better PCI) and have a good chance to make 6% annually and still have SD&lt;3, see (<A href="https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&amp;timePeriod=2&amp;startYear=2016&amp;firstMonth=8&amp;endYear=2019&amp;lastMonth=12&amp;calendarAligned=true&amp;initialAmount=10000&amp;annualOperation=0&amp;annualAdjustment=0&amp;inflationAdjusted=true&amp;annualPercentage=0.0&amp;frequency=4&amp;rebalanceType=1&amp;absoluteDeviation=5.0&amp;relativeDeviation=25.0&amp;showYield=false&amp;reinvestDividends=true&amp;sameFees=true&amp;symbol1=JMUTX&amp;allocation1_1=20&amp;symbol2=PCI&amp;allocation2_1=20&amp;symbol3=VCFAX&amp;allocation3_1=20&amp;symbol4=SEMMX&amp;allocation4_1=20&amp;symbol5=GHYAX&amp;allocation5_1=20&amp;total1=100&amp;total2=0&amp;total3=0" target="_blank" rel="noopener nofollow noopener noreferrer">link</A>).&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns "</STRONG></P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:50:27 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683151#M5188FD10012020-03-11T18:50:27ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683156#M5189
<P>My observation is some or many of us sell funds to preserve capital gains rather than the expectation of dividend cuts. With CEFs, the fear of dividend cuts is based on anticipating other investors will sell on the cut announcement.</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 18:59:21 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683156#M5189jmrdnc2020-03-11T18:59:21ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683165#M5190
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3365"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><LI-USER uid="3471"></LI-USER>&nbsp; Your post yesterday in which you quoted Lamar, that pretty much sums up exactly how I feel, and that is why I have sell orders for all three of my bond OEFs.&nbsp; I also think that future income is probably going to have to come more from stock dividends, so I'm trying to load up during this current downturn.&nbsp; I would love to just sit back with a predominately bond OEF portfolio, but I just don't see it, what with interest rates constantly coming down, and the world awash in money looking for a safe home, no matter how low the rates. &nbsp;</P><P>When things change and I no longer understand the game, it seems logical to&nbsp; move on. &nbsp;</P><P>"It is not the strongest of the species that survive, nor the most intelligent,&nbsp;<EM>but the ones most responsive to change". &nbsp;</EM>Charles Darwin</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>mlott, you and most of the world owns PIMIX and always reference its .0555 dividend, that has been consistently paid forever.&nbsp; Are you in the camp now, that PIMIX will be lowering their .0555 dividend that so many investors reference as their reason for holding PIMIX through thick and thin?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Paul:&nbsp; As one who owns Pimco Income I can say I have never referenced its .0555 dividend as my reason for holding.&nbsp; I own 6 bond OEFs in my bond OEF sleeve and 3 are Pimco:&nbsp; 21% Income, 11% Diversified Income and 11% Total Return.&nbsp; I invest in Pimco because of my confidence in PMs (Ivascyn and Kiesel) and reputation of bond house.&nbsp; I have similar confidence in Pimco with half of my bond CEF sleeve in Pimco CEFs.&nbsp; I do not believe in the AUM bloat theory.&nbsp;&nbsp;<BR /><BR /></P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 19:05:32 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683165#M5190PaulR8882020-03-11T19:05:32ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683232#M5191
<P>The munis are pummeled today as they ran the most this year and giving it all back in a single day. Whoa!</P><P>NHMAX is down 2.28%, the high flier that lost the most! VWALX is down 1.5%.&nbsp;</P><P>OTOH, SEMMX shed a penny and VCFIX lost 2 cents. Not bad considering the carnage of the others. Wonder what will happen to PIMIX as they always price it after 6:30 EST.</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 21:52:27 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683232#M5191RainGater2020-03-11T21:52:27ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683247#M5192
<P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp; I'm selling PONAX for the same reason that I'm selling my other two bond OEFs.&nbsp; I simply do not understand the new rate environment.&nbsp; I have no idea which fund will do what.&nbsp; Lots of money chasing fixed income yield, which to me does not bode well.&nbsp; People like you and FD can probably navigate these new and strange waters, but I can't.&nbsp; Any new money, I would not know which fund or funds to put it in.&nbsp; And most of all, I don't understand what bond OEFs will do in the future as lower rates prevail.&nbsp; The PONAX dividend was not only not a consideration, that didn't even occur to me.&nbsp; I'm never afraid of going into cash, but with stocks back to a more reasonable level, I'll pick up what I can before they move back up.</P><P>Don't remember who posted about the PONAX dividend, but I do not recall ever referencing it, other than I thought the dividend was generous, considering that it is not a HY fund, and I know that I posted more than once that I considered it my "risky" fund, and that was as far out as I wanted to go on the risk scale. &nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 22:49:34 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683247#M5192mlott12020-03-11T22:49:34ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683255#M5193
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3365"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp; I'm selling PONAX for the same reason that I'm selling my other two bond OEFs.&nbsp; I simply do not understand the new rate environment.&nbsp; I have no idea which fund will do what.&nbsp; Lots of money chasing fixed income yield, which to me does not bode well.&nbsp; People like you and FD can probably navigate these new and strange waters, but I can't.&nbsp; Any new money, I would not know which fund or funds to put it in.&nbsp; And most of all, I don't understand what bond OEFs will do in the future as lower rates prevail.&nbsp; The PONAX dividend was not only not a consideration, that didn't even occur to me.&nbsp; I'm never afraid of going into cash, but with stocks back to a more reasonable level, I'll pick up what I can before they move back up.</P><P>Don't remember who posted about the PONAX dividend, but I do not recall ever referencing it, other than I thought the dividend was generous, considering that it is not a HY fund, and I know that I posted more than once that I considered it my "risky" fund, and that was as far out as I wanted to go on the risk scale. &nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>mlott, good luck with your investing decisions--there are lots of people going totally to cash in this "bear market"!</P>Wed, 11 Mar 2020 23:10:50 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683255#M5193dtconroe2020-03-11T23:10:50ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683265#M5195
<P>It does seem <SPAN>DoubleLine Low Duration Bond I </SPAN>DBLSX and Diamond Hill <SPAN>Short Duration Total Ret I </SPAN>DHEIX, especially DHEIX is holding up well. As DHEIX is where it was on February 19th, not much loss for either fund. I continue to hold these and Vanguard VUSFX, which has not moved the past few days. I sold almost all my intermediate and lower credit, particularly corporate credit bond funds seem to be losing ground due to concerns about credit.</P>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 01:01:40 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683265#M5195FatKat2020-03-12T01:01:40ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683279#M5196
<P>I sold MWCIX yesterday. I did get to keep last years profit. I owned it in 2017 and 2019. I guess it is an odd year fund to own. I just felt it was not positioned well for this rate climate with HY. Possibly in the future it will be a buy again. I wanted to start a DHEAX position and may use the proceeds to do so or possibly rebalance into equities.&nbsp;</P>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 00:01:40 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683279#M5196Gary19522020-03-12T00:01:40ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683289#M5198
<P>dt, ANGIX did better yesterday and today in the sea of redness! PIMIX lost a lot and JMSIX about 1/2 %.</P><P>It looks to me that PIMIX is in a freefall and so much for the best bond house with the best managers (past best?) weathering the storm!</P><P>Cash is the king in these markets or is the selloff already run it's course? I know that's a million dollar question.</P>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 00:23:06 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683289#M5198RainGater2020-03-12T00:23:06ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683298#M5199
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I sold MWCIX yesterday. I did get to keep last years profit. I owned it in 2017 and 2019. I guess it is an odd year fund to own. I just felt it was not positioned well for this rate climate with HY. Possibly in the future it will be a buy again. I wanted to start a DHEAX position and may use the proceeds to do so or possibly rebalance into equities.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Diamond Hill Short Duration Total Ret would be a good one, but I would wait just a bit and see its yield before I buy. I have been buying a little into equities using ETFs,</P>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 00:47:35 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683298#M5199FatKat2020-03-12T00:47:35ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683301#M5200
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3912"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>dt, ANGIX did better yesterday and today in the sea of redness! PIMIX lost a lot and JMSIX about 1/2 %.</P><P>It looks to me that PIMIX is in a freefall and so much for the best bond house with the best managers (past best?) weathering the storm!</P><P>Cash is the king in these markets or is the selloff already run it's course? I know that's a million dollar question.</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yep, ANGIX has been doing well the last few days. Hard to trust much of anything, outside of shorter term higher quality funds, but ANGIX is living up to its lower risk rating given to it by M*.&nbsp; I have been monitoring closely a new fund I mentioned before, FPFIX, and it continues to be about the best performing nontraditional bond oef.&nbsp; FPNIX is probably the best performing short term bond oef in this bear market mess.</P>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 00:58:35 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683301#M5200dtconroe2020-03-12T00:58:35ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683396#M5201
<P>I am in no hurry to buy. I will let rates settle some.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="4767"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>I sold MWCIX yesterday. I did get to keep last years profit. I owned it in 2017 and 2019. I guess it is an odd year fund to own. I just felt it was not positioned well for this rate climate with HY. Possibly in the future it will be a buy again. I wanted to start a DHEAX position and may use the proceeds to do so or possibly rebalance into equities.&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Diamond Hill Short Duration Total Ret would be a good one, but I would wait just a bit and see its yield before I buy. I have been buying a little into equities using ETFs,</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Thu, 12 Mar 2020 12:47:31 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683396#M5201Gary19522020-03-12T12:47:31ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683743#M5215
<P>The last week and month has been about as ugly as you can get.&nbsp; Almost anything you have held is probably experiencing stress, although relatively some investments are much less stressed than other options. Trying to use this period as an educational and learning period, here are just a few thoughts:</P><P>1.&nbsp; If you want to examine the concept of "cash subs", it is virtually impossible to find anything on a 1 week or 1 month basis that looks like a good alternative to holding cash, but if you go out YTD, there are some funds that shine and have a better return than a banking account.&nbsp; Of course, we don't know what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, next month, or the rest of the year.&nbsp; Some of our favorite funds mentioned are DBLSX and&nbsp; DHEAX--not&nbsp; good cash subs on recent short term, but still doing well YTD compared to cash.&nbsp; FPNIX and FPFIX are doing relatively better than most other options, but they have not been immune from losses for the last week.</P><P>2. Multisector Bond OEFS have clearly reflected risk in this market.&nbsp; ANGIX and VCFAX are holding up much better than most multisector bond oefs.&nbsp; IOFIX has done relatively well, but in the past week it has been hit hard.&nbsp; Those supposedly "slightly riskier" funds like PUCZX, PIMIX, JMUTX, JMSIX are getting beaten up badly and are showing they are much riskier than was portrayed just a few months ago.&nbsp; If you look at this category like equities though, those "slightly riskier" multisector bond oefs offer potentially greater opportunities to recoup losses, once we hit a bottom, but the investing trick is being good at "market timing" and avoid trying to catch a falling knife.&nbsp; I am not good at market timing, and I think predicting a bottom can be very painful, but like equity investing, you may want to figure out what is the greatest value going forward and see how much patience you have waiting for a turnaround.</P><P>3. NonTraditional Bond Oefs have clearly indicated that the concept of "absolute return" looks pretty laughable right now, as this category have very few options that are painless.&nbsp; FPFIX is the standout in this category, with very small losses.&nbsp; SEMMX and PMZIX have not performed as well as I expected, but are still relatively less risky than a fund like MWCIX, which is probably the most disappointing fund I owned that has not held up as well as its history suggested it would.&nbsp; Funds like DFLEX has reflected much higher risk and losses than I would have expected from bond guru Gundlach.&nbsp; Since this is supposedly an absolute return category, with great flexibility in using investing techniques to minimize losses, I am going to have to rethink how safe I consider this category.&nbsp; I will have to re-evaluate what is worth investing going forward with preservation of capital objectives, but FPFIX and SEMMX&nbsp; are looking the most promising with relatively small peak to trough losses.</P><P>4. HY Muni Oefs have pretty much been disasters.&nbsp; This category had been one of the most hyped categories during 2019 and early 2020, but their losses in this market have been some of the most extensive.&nbsp; "Low risk" funds like AAHMX and PDSZX show that there is much more risk in this category than I expected, but funds like NVHAX (one of the favorites in this category) have shown how very risky they are in reality.&nbsp; It will be hard for me to look at any of these funds as appropriate in a cash alternative category in the future, and evaluating risk can be more obvious as a result of this recent period of performance.&nbsp; If you can avoid the falling knife scenario, they may be falling into value opportunities if you are brave enough to invest in that category going forward.</P><P>Investing is tough, and it is tempting to go into your personal bunker, but it is much more clear to assess risk, and maybe look at opportunity, when you start considering where you want to be in the future.&nbsp; If you are a very risk averse investor, then your losses are relatively much smaller than equity or more risky bond oef funds.&nbsp; Some will be attempting to recoup their relatively small losses by just staying the course.&nbsp; Others may choose to shift some of those assets from relatively small losses to other options that are more beat up and look like good "value options" for the future.&nbsp; Best of wishes determining what you want to do going forward--I am guessing this terrible period has more pain in front of us but hard to assess how long that will last.</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Fri, 13 Mar 2020 13:40:25 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683743#M5215dtconroe2020-03-13T13:40:25ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683771#M5217
<P>Good overall assessment. During the last few years bond OEF investing has been fun and a challenge for me. I found out how good the funds I held worked as ballast for me. Because I am an equity/bond AA investor I have the opportunity to reinvest on the growth side now.&nbsp;</P><P>1. It is apparent that core/core plus funds do not work any better or as well as low duration funds as ballast.</P><P>2. A favorite fund of many, ZEOIX, showed it's true color as a HY fund.</P><P>3. I am not sure this irrational market was a true test of how each fund type works is structured to work. For instance YBB has stated a fund like SEMMX could suffer due to its holding IO derivatives. I am not sure if that was the downfall of SEMMX or was it just another fund in this irrational market selling assets to provide liquidity for investors pulling out?</P><P>4. It turns out that 2008 may have provided a blueprint for this Black Swan event.&nbsp;</P><P>5. Can SD and such really be used as metrics for judging funds to invest in? Everything works in good markets whether rates are going up or down.</P><P>I hope we can keep this thread alive to sort out the future.</P>Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:15:39 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683771#M5217Gary19522020-03-13T14:15:39ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683772#M5218
<P>I will buy bonds funds again when Treasury rates are higher and stable. Haven't sold CEFs or ETFs at Schwab or Fidelity, but at Vanguard, everything is in federal money market settlement accounts. No appetite for speculation with the known risks much less the unknown ones.&nbsp; &nbsp;</P>Fri, 13 Mar 2020 14:18:01 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683772#M5218jmrdnc2020-03-13T14:18:01ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683829#M5219
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT color="#FF0000">See replies in Red below</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Good overall assessment. During the last few years bond OEF investing has been fun and a challenge for me. I found out how good the funds I held worked as ballast for me. Because I am an equity/bond AA investor I have the opportunity to reinvest on the growth side now.&nbsp;</P><P><FONT color="#FF0000">I guess we all will determine how this impacts our investing approach.&nbsp; Because I am not a good market timer, I tend to hold my very conservative funds and hope to mitigate overall losses.&nbsp; I look at how well bond oefs performed the roles I chose them for, and I will take that into consideration regarding whether they were good or not so good choices for that role.&nbsp; Regarding "ballast" roles, I tend to hold some very low risk bond oefs, as "ballast" for more risky bond oefs.&nbsp; As such I will review how well I evaluated "risk" in my bond oefs.&nbsp; What is reasonably clear to me is that bond oef funds like PUCZX, PIMIX, JMUTX, and JMISX are considerably more risky than how they were portrayed in the past because their SDs were just "slightly" higher than lower risk funds.&nbsp; Funds I thought would be lower risk "ballast" funds like MWCIX, do not look near as good for "ballast" roles as I thought.&nbsp; Funds like SEMMX are pretty good as "ballast" funds for more risky funds, but SEMMX is certainly far from being a cash substitute fund.Y</FONT></P><P>1. It is apparent that core/core plus funds do not work any better or as well as low duration funds as ballast.&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT color="#FF0000">These funds are often described as "multisector-lite" bond oefs, and for the most part that is how they have performed, and not all that great as "ballast" funds, at least for ballast roles that I look for.</FONT></P><P>2. A favorite fund of many, ZEOIX, showed it's true color as a HY fund.&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT color="#FF0000">ZEOIX performed much better than most HY bond oefs, but clearly it did not perform very well as a cash sub fund.</FONT></P><P>3. I am not sure this irrational market was a true test of how each fund type works is structured to work. For instance YBB has stated a fund like SEMMX could suffer due to its holding IO derivatives. I am not sure if that was the downfall of SEMMX or was it just another fund in this irrational market selling assets to provide liquidity for investors pulling out?&nbsp;<FONT color="#FF0000">I guess you have to define the role you bought SEMMX to perform.&nbsp; It has not performed well as a cash sub, but it has been one of the best nontraditioanl bond funds regarding total return performance, and certainly has done better than most nontraditonal and better than most multisector bond oefs.&nbsp; Based on what has happened so far, you might want to look at a nontraditional bond oef like FPFIX as a better choice for a low risk option, but SEMMX is still one of the safer nontraditional bond oefs in that category.</FONT></P><P>4. It turns out that 2008 may have provided a blueprint for this Black Swan event.&nbsp;<FONT color="#FF0000">Time will tell but I suspect the coronavirus meltdown will be much easier to predict its end, than dealing with all the bankruptcies and threat to our overall economy that was in effect in 2008.&nbsp; I remember in 2008, I was wondering how well FDIC insurance would hold up and where I could safely put my cash.</FONT></P><P>5. Can SD and such really be used as metrics for judging funds to invest in? Everything works in good markets whether rates are going up or down.&nbsp;&nbsp;<FONT color="#FF0000">I think SD has still allowed us to find the lowest risk funds in a given category, but SD is still only relevant to the category, and you can't generalize low SD in one category as a measure of equal low risk in another category.&nbsp; ANGIX and VCFAX are two of the lowest SD funds in the multisector bond category, and they have far outperformed "slightly higher SD funds" like PUCZX, JMSIX, JMUTX.&nbsp; Clearly those who use only SD for a fund like PIMIX has been shown that there are other factors affecting riskiness than just SD.&nbsp; You still need to look at the underlying assets in a fund, and some funds are changing from what they use to be, and SD can reflect what a fund use to be, more than what it has become.&nbsp;&nbsp;</FONT></P></BLOCKQUOTE>Fri, 13 Mar 2020 16:46:41 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683829#M5219dtconroe2020-03-13T16:46:41ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683917#M5220
<P>&nbsp;Purchased PUCZX and JMUTX for a different market. Few, if any, knew this market would occur&nbsp; a few months ago when I purchased them. I plan to sell them both. As to when, I thought perhaps they might make some gain this coming week if the market does not have a down day that soon? I'm not saying they are bad funds; I am saying an overpriced, very low interest market brought me to choose them. Probably best to sell then sooner than later.</P>Fri, 13 Mar 2020 22:31:55 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683917#M5220FatKat2020-03-13T22:31:55ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683920#M5221
<P>DT, good analysis.</P><P>In a time of very high stress in the market, the usual concepts of risk/reward don't work and correlation goes higher.&nbsp; This should not dictate your long term and forever investment style.&nbsp; If you that you will find yourself mostly in treasuries which are fine if you have lots of equities and/or you are a buy and hold for years.&nbsp; Treasuries have their own problem too and especially the next several years.</P><P>When you want to make more with bond funds in lieu of some (or more) of your stocks, you must own more volatile funds and/or lower-rated bond funds otherwise performance will be much lower.</P><P>You got to have some flexibility and timing at crucial points is a must. It is not hard to distinguish the real meltdown from a "normal" one. 2008-9 was going on for months. The coronavirus was faster because things are faster + it was virus depended. When the president shut down the Chinese on Feb 2nd that was a huge red flag. Then we heard of global reports for several more weeks. It gave you a month to sell.&nbsp; How much to sell? it's your choice.&nbsp;</P><P>Another red flag is when most bond categories don't work and especially when rates are going down and most bond funds are going down too.</P><P><SPAN>FPFIX&nbsp;is another high % securitized funds with higher-rated bonds HIGHER than DHEIX and why it was better lately. It's also a new fund started on 12/31/2018. It's nice to have 2 funds with 2 choices with close risk/reward, see PV(<A href="https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/backtest-portfolio?s=y&amp;timePeriod=2&amp;startYear=1985&amp;firstMonth=1&amp;endYear=2020&amp;lastMonth=12&amp;calendarAligned=true&amp;initialAmount=10000&amp;annualOperation=0&amp;annualAdjustment=0&amp;inflationAdjusted=true&amp;annualPercentage=0.0&amp;frequency=4&amp;rebalanceType=1&amp;absoluteDeviation=5.0&amp;relativeDeviation=25.0&amp;showYield=false&amp;reinvestDividends=true&amp;portfolioNames=false&amp;portfolioName1=Portfolio+1&amp;portfolioName2=Portfolio+2&amp;portfolioName3=Portfolio+3&amp;symbol1=FPFIX&amp;allocation1_1=100&amp;symbol2=DHEAX&amp;allocation2_2=100&amp;symbol3=SEMMX&amp;allocation3_3=100" target="_blank" rel="noopener">link</A>) shows that DHEAX was a better choice but this can change after the end of March.&nbsp; LT I can see DHEIX beating&nbsp;FPFIX by 0.5-1% based on it's higher yield.&nbsp; BTW, Even MINT lost -0.6%</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>There is a good reason why securitized is my LT favorite category where great managers were able to find extra value.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>Maybe you can use VIX as another flag. When <A title="CBOE Volatility Index" href="https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/%5EVIX?p=^VIX" target="_blank" rel="noopener">^VIX</A>&nbsp;&gt; 30-35 be alert.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>The FD indicator&nbsp; :-)&nbsp; &nbsp;I posted on Feb 28 I'm mostly out of bonds and on March 9, I was completely out. Since 2009 I was never at 50+% in cash but twice I was in cash for about 3 weeks each.&nbsp; This means I was invested at 99+% at about 99% of the time.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>and as you know past performance is no guarantee of future returns. Just when you think you found a great fund it starts to disappoint you&nbsp; :-)</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>at a minimum, you should have the flexibility to switch from riskier funds to lower risk funds every time you notice bigger problems.</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>Basically, you must have flexibility built-in within your portfolio.&nbsp; Last but not least, fewer funds allow you more flexibility because you can switch 1-2 funds instead of 3-5 funds.</SPAN></P>Fri, 13 Mar 2020 22:57:31 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683920#M5221FD10012020-03-13T22:57:31ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683932#M5223
<P>Was watching closely to see how bond OEF performed in market rebound . High Yield Muni and all class of Muni did well . High quality securitized &nbsp;did well but junkier IOFIX and EIXIX still down . Will be watching Thea closely . I still don’t think we go straight up from here . As cases go up we are still not out of the woods and will see downside is my viewpoint .&nbsp;</P>Sat, 14 Mar 2020 00:06:57 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/683932#M5223Sortatino22020-03-14T00:06:57ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684012#M5226
<P>We are in a market fall that almost no one anticipated.&nbsp; We are now beyond the correction phase, now in a bear market, and moving toward a recession.&nbsp; Like many of the worst markets in our history, this one is different than previous ones--had anyone heard of "coronavirus" in 2019 and the beginning of 2020?&nbsp; It is virtually impossible to compare one horrible market period, with previous horrible market periods.&nbsp;&nbsp;Typical of these types of periods, many of our most vocal posters are very quiet now, many of our posts are how to handle this particular market period, many of our posts are now shifted from high flier total return funds to safe haven/safe harbor funds.&nbsp; Here is the reality of where many of the more prominently mentioned funds stand in total return percentages:</P><P>Multisector Bond&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 1wk&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;1mo&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;YTD</P><P>1. ANGIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-1.39&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -.49&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +.42</P><P>2. VCFAX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-2.72&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.07</P><P>3. PUCZX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-7.59&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -8.20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -6.61</P><P>4. PIMIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4.64&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -5.69&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4.54</P><P>5. JMSIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-4.67&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3.95&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.82</P><P>6. JMUTX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4.52&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4.42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.99</P><P>NonTraditional Bond</P><P>1. FPFIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-.59&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;+.33&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +.96</P><P>2. SEMMX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.93&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-.47</P><P>3. PMZIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.77&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-.94</P><P>4. MWCIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.81&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-2.59&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.81</P><P>Short Term Bond</P><P>1. FPNIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-.50&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;+.40&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; +.82</P><P>2. DBLSX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.09&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -.78&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-.08</P><P>3. DHEAX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-1.27&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -.55&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;+.23</P><P>"Lower risk" Munis</P><P>1. BTMIX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.42&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -1.23&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-.44</P><P>2. AAHMX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.96&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.50&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-1.44</P><P>3. PDSZX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -3.94&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -2.98&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-1.64</P><P>4. NVHAX&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-5.00&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; -4.60&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-2.83</P><P>&nbsp;</P><P>Of course there are many other bond oef categories, including even less risky categories like ultra short term bonds, government bonds, etc.&nbsp; and many are now looking for bond oefs in the money market categories.&nbsp; Others may want to add what is going on with some of their favorite bonds in other categories or others not mentioned.&nbsp;&nbsp;</P><P>&nbsp;</P>Sat, 14 Mar 2020 16:03:58 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684012#M5226dtconroe2020-03-14T16:03:58ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684044#M5228
<P>Interesting point. Are we in a bond "bear" market along with equities? Or are the bonds feeling the effects of declining stocks?</P><P>R48 and ElLobo have been talking about a separate bond bear market for awhile. If this is truly a bear market would we want to be in anything other than cash? Personally I am viewing this as a deep correction and think the market will rebound once good news on coronavirus come out.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><FONT color="#ff0000">We are in a market fall that almost no one anticipated.&nbsp; We are now beyond the correction phase, now in a bear market, and moving toward a recession. ............</FONT></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Sat, 14 Mar 2020 18:14:01 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684044#M5228Gary19522020-03-14T18:14:01ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684062#M5232
<P>I don't have a strong opinion on that debate.&nbsp; Both stocks and bonds are getting hit hard right now, and I am trying to survive in the best way I can.&nbsp; Hopefully, things will get back to normal in the near future.&nbsp; If "normal" has been redefined in some significant way, I will have to adjust to whatever is working then.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Interesting point. Are we in a bond "bear" market along with equities? Or are the bonds feeling the effects of declining stocks?</P><P>R48 and ElLobo have been talking about a separate bond bear market for awhile. If this is truly a bear market would we want to be in anything other than cash? Personally I am viewing this as a deep correction and think the market will rebound once good news on coronavirus come out.</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3334"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P><FONT color="#ff0000">We are in a market fall that almost no one anticipated.&nbsp; We are now beyond the correction phase, now in a bear market, and moving toward a recession. ............</FONT></P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Sat, 14 Mar 2020 20:36:38 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684062#M5232dtconroe2020-03-14T20:36:38ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684867#M5265
<P>I posted the following on another thread, but it is relevant to this thread, so I will post it here:</P><P><SPAN>"I am not ignoring oversold values, that might be potential buy possibilities in this market.&nbsp; Tons of posts about investors selling bonds and buying equities, quite a few posts about investors buying CEFs and ETFs.&nbsp; In my past life of investing during major corrections and very severe market drops, I have chosen to put some money into what I consider "more risky" options.&nbsp; Now at 72, I am not quite that daring, but I am considering putting some money into bond oefs, that are a step up in risk, than what I would have chosen more recently.&nbsp; My focus right now are funds like PUCZX, JMSIX, JMUTX, which are still in a risk range that I don't think is too risky for my investing risk tolerance.&nbsp; I am not there yet, because I don't think we have figured out the total impact economically on the market as a whole.&nbsp; When we are discussing bailouts for big companies, it starts sounding like 2008, so I will wait and look at my options, with a little more information in the coming days/weeks.&nbsp; I am not a good market timer, so I may start dollar cost averaging in some funds that I am interested in"</SPAN></P><P><SPAN>If I did decide to throw some money at some funds, that are slightly more risky, than I have used in the past, I would likely do that with the intent for holding them for the remainder of 2020, or longer.</SPAN></P>Tue, 17 Mar 2020 22:20:07 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684867#M5265dtconroe2020-03-17T22:20:07ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684876#M5271
<P>VCFIX (-1.31%) and SEMMX (-1.37%) are down today as well. I am sure JMSIX and PIMIX will be down even more.</P><P>Wow, what a carnage in the bond land, multi-sector OEF funds in general! No one wants these bond funds any more and not sure why it's tanking so hard? Any sane explanation? I know the 10 yr treasury is trading wildly but how can these bonds lose so much value all of a sudden?</P><P>Are all the companies going to stop paying these bonds and go belly up? Most of these OEF funds have high percentage in MBS and not sure why it's tanking so hard when the govt is bailing out with a *supposedly* huge package. And, the fed announced that they are buying all kinds of securities and wonder whether these MBS, that are in these bond OEFs, are part of that?</P><P>Time to bail out if this doesn't improve this week and move to stocks as the risk/reward looks better in the stock land.</P>Tue, 17 Mar 2020 22:30:48 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684876#M5271RainGater2020-03-17T22:30:48ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684888#M5273
<P>Well SD works as a guide until it doesn't work. My guess a part of the losses is selling holdings for shareholders to raise cash. Plenty on sale now.</P>Tue, 17 Mar 2020 22:38:06 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684888#M5273Gary19522020-03-17T22:38:06ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684907#M5274
<P>Since DBLTX, BCOIX, BAGIX, HABDX held up so well this year, is it time to bring core/core plus into this conservative discussion? I know, SD etc. will rule these out. But what is more conservative than not losing 2-4% in the usual funds discussed?</P>Tue, 17 Mar 2020 23:45:29 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684907#M5274Gary19522020-03-17T23:45:29ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684969#M5281
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Since DBLTX, BCOIX, BAGIX, HABDX held up so well this year, is it time to bring core/core plus into this conservative discussion? I know, SD etc. will rule these out. But what is more conservative than not losing 2-4% in the usual funds discussed?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>With all the extreme ups and down in the market, who knows now what bond funds will do in a stable market? It is not only that the market is down so much that bothers me, it is the constant trading, making the market so volatile.&nbsp; They buy the market up and then sell the next day, it gives me a headache.</P><P>I still prefer the ultra-short funds for the least volatility.</P>Wed, 18 Mar 2020 01:48:15 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684969#M5281FatKat2020-03-18T01:48:15ZRe: Bond OEF Investing for More Conservative Investorshttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684975#M5282
<BLOCKQUOTE><HR /><LI-USER uid="3382"></LI-USER>&nbsp;wrote:<BR /><P>Since DBLTX, BCOIX, BAGIX, HABDX held up so well this year, is it time to bring core/core plus into this conservative discussion? I know, SD etc. will rule these out. But what is more conservative than not losing 2-4% in the usual funds discussed?</P><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I think they are very appropriate for this thread--go for it!&nbsp; Waiting to read your analysis of which of these funds are the best to consider and why.&nbsp; Feel free to ignore SD in your analysis!</P><BLOCKQUOTE><HR /></BLOCKQUOTE><P>&nbsp;</P>Wed, 18 Mar 2020 16:00:48 GMThttps://community.morningstar.com/t5/Bond-Squad/Bond-OEF-Investing-for-More-Conservative-Investors/m-p/684975#M5282dtconroe2020-03-18T16:00:48Z