But a proper study will show it's more than just a thought or action, it goes to the heart, to what lies inside.

Everytime a Pharisee would step up to challenge Christ on something, He would say... "You have heard it said... but I say..."

The you have heard part always was based in the physical right here, and the but I say part always focused instead on the inside, the heart issue, the underlying thing that drove the external action.

I struggle with compulsive MB and there is always fantasy/lust tied to it, but as I've grown and learned, I've begun to see the root of it being on wounds and brokenness inside me that drive me to self-sooth etc. If I instead focus on healing from the things inside, I have confidence that the compulsive addictions I run too would decrease.

I see your point (and the point others have made). I think there is a semantic error in the argument.

I agree - if masturbation is getting in the way of healthier ways of living, then it is a problem, and if you want to be religious about it - call it a sin. But it is a problem regardless if you label it a sin or not. I think we can all agree on that.

For those of us who do not have issues with masturbation (addiction, preoccupasion, etc), then the word "sin" is ludicrous.

It's a double insult to 2/3ds of the planet that isn't Christian : buddhist, or muslim, or hindu, pagan, agnostic...... What about their experiences? Are they invalid?

No. Abuse tried to teach us that we're invalid. We're not. We're all equally affected, and not all of us believe the same religious tenets.

So, I'm seeing the argument for what it is now - people clutching to names and labels and getting triggered over it. And justifiably so. Many of us were abused inside the church, and any semblance of religious dogmatism is a trigger. For myself included.

We can all agree that if masturbating is causing issues in other areas of your life (like getting in the way of your job, your relationships), treat it like any other addiction or mal-adaptive coping mechanism. It's dysfunctional.

If it isn't causing any issues, and is providing an avenue for self love and release of anxiety, then it is a very good thing.

If a person is ok with something then why would they call it sin? It does, from their worldview, make no sense to do so.

Something causing a problem isn't the qualifying for it being a "sin" or not. Workaholism for example isn't a sin, but like any addiction, can have very negative effects on the rest of life.

I personally believe the Bible teaches that every life, every human being is valuable. The every person is indeed created in the image of God and therefore each bears that value and dignity. I know that your experience (and mine) have taught us that not everyone who calls themself a Christian believe this. Well a prime example would be Westboro. They call themselves Christian, but yet they are filled with such hate and bigotry. To me their actions speak louder than their declaration. Look at the life of Christ, compare it to Westboro, and you'll see no compatibility at all between the two.

Christ said that you would know His disciples by their love. Westboro doesn't show love at all, so by that qualifier their actions show they aren't followers or disciples of Christ at all. Jesus was called the "friend of sinners". He embraced and showed love and compassion to the very people the "religious" of His day despised and looked down on.

Truly... it's no different today. The "religious" of our day don't truly know or understand who Jesus is and they live in the same place and way of the Pharisees. Jesus Himself said that the day will come and many will cry out "Lord Lord" and He will say them, "Depart from me for I never knew you."

I agree with you, yesterday was indeed all about labels and triggers. I wasn't sexually abused in a church or even a religious setting, but I was certainly spiritually abuse at home by a mother who tried to use church and religion to control and manipulate her kids into who she wanted them to be.

This is something I wrote in another forum on the daily audio bibles webpage on the same issue in the men's Christian section and It got a great response Daily audio bible mens forum

I wrote this in April sometime it is almost what I wrote here a few years ago and it was to Christians and If you are not a Christian this is fine to you are free to believe what you want again just my 2 cents take it or leave it

I give a testimony at the end of this it is not all just busting chops and a link that helped me overcome my addiction to porn

This is justification people stop compromising the bible it is very plain to see that masturbation is a sin all i see is comprise . Are you thinking of anything at all holy or even about Jesus I do not think so . Do everything unto the glory of God how in the world is masturbation giving God glory is there a way to give God glory through doing this sinful gratifying the flesh and its passionate desires which we rare plainly told to flee from come on people I can not even believe this is a real question here if it is a sin or not that is .

This is not a complicated issue it only becomes complicated when you want to compromise and justify the sin .this drives me nuts when people try to justify sin there is no justification because it is not mentioned specifically in the bible . The bible does not mention a lot of things it does not give us permission to use it as an excuse to sin .

1 Corinthians 6:18

Flee from sexual immorality. Every other sin a person commits is outside the body, but the sexually immoral person sins against his own body.

1 Corinthians 10:13

No temptation has overtaken you that is not common to man. God is faithful, and he will not let you be tempted beyond your ability, but with the temptation he will also provide the way of escape, that you may be able to endure it.

Matthew 5:28

But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Galatians 5:19

Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality,

1 Peter 2:11

Beloved, I urge you as sojourners and exiles to abstain from the passions of the flesh, which wage war against your soul.

Mark 7:20-23

And he said, “What comes out of a person is what defiles him. For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, coveting, wickedness, deceit, sensuality, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and they defile a person.”

Ephesians 5:3

But sexual immorality and all impurity or covetousness must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5

For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ

I could go on and on but you should get the point I hate to be harsh but is just this kind of compromise that has made the body of believers so weak and why the enemy has had such success infiltrating the church with all the compromise.God is not esteemed as he should be the Holy Spirit is not used as mightily as it should be not to say i do this to perfection but when the truth is no longer truth than the Gospel dies and this is what happens when compromise comes in . It can not be tolerated on any level this is not an argument this is FACT that MB is a sin and to say otherwise is just a lack of maturity in the faith

Now I no you can struggle with this but it is still a sin and God knew we would struggle with sin that is why he died to overcome it I am by no means saying i am perfect and have it all together Grace can be found when you are broken over your sin God loves it when we are broken over our sin and are working on overcoming the sin through the power of the Holy Spirit not settling with the sin giving it victory in our lives.

God want us to overcome the sin in our lives not compromise it and justify it . I do not care if it takes 10 yrs to overcome the sin as long as you are working on it through the power of the Holy Spirit i believe there is grace i do not believe grace is found in justifying the act of sin it is vile to God sin is hostile to God and it is not of God to say i am just going to allow this sin to have mastery over me .

Grace abounds when we are broken over the sin and are trying to overcome it and I might also add that is could be someones thorn in there flesh keeping them calling out to God to overcome . I was addicted to porn for over 9yrs and I NEVER was satisfied with my sin and knew this was no of God i fought and fought and cried and I would buy it and get mad and break it into pieces and go a month or a couple of days or weeks without it and than fall and this went on for over 9 yrs and it kept me broken it kept me calling out to God for his mercy and Grace and i was seeking his mercy and grace and i knew that no matter how long it took through the power of the spirit i would overcome this .

For those who hunger and thirst for righteousness will be filled

I believe this wholeheartedly and this is where people do not understandask seek knock and it shall be given God never says when he will answer he wants you to build up your most holy faith and continue to seek him for deliverance some of this stuff is to build up your faith how can you build up your faith denying the fact that sin is sin.

I finally got my deliverance because i was broken over my sin i was searching the internet yet again for help in the mater of pornography I was hungering and thirsting for righteousness and came across this website

and when the guy gave his testimony and read 1st Cor 6:9-10 instantly i felt the power of God sweep over me for some reason i had read that passage so many times but this time i really took i it to heart as if God himself was speaking to me and i took it literally and from that day on i was delivered i was set free and as we all know who are addicted to anything sometimes it seems hopeless but i was set free that day and it was because i did not compromise or settle for excuses.

I could have plenty of excuses even the fact that i was molested by 2 males from the age of 7 until i was almost 13yrs old i could have said well God you no my past you know that i was raised around this stuff and you know my lustful heart because of these things but i know just like everyone knows sin is sin because the spirit convicts of sin . Some just choose to dismiss the spirit and this is why people do not have the victory over some things they quench the spirit by not listening to it and because we are not lifting up the name of Jesus and giving him the Glory when we are delivered so many are ashamed of what God has brought them out of and many stay in the dark because of the shame or guilt even though they have been set free or are working on being be delivered . People will overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of their testimonies

The way I had it explained to me is it depends on what is in your heart/mind while M. If you are thinking of the pleasure, what's happening, the enjoyment - there is no problem. However, if you're thinking about taking advantage of another - fantasizing of a person already married, etc - then there is a problem.

"As a man thinks in his heart, so is he."

I think that says it all ... for me anyhoo-- my 2 cents.

M

i see your 2 cents and raise you 2 more, because i agree with your statement 100%. it makes perfect cents you said it better than i could, and you wrapped it up in a nice small package.

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