Rubber bullets and tazers are deadly. You pull the trigger, you accept the risk that you may take someone's life. Period. If, either way, there's a likelihood that the target will end up dead, I don't think excessive force is a valid argument. But, I'm not a lawyer. YMMV.

I am not in the least concerned with the safety or physical well-being of someone who presents a credible threat to my life or health, so I'm talking about less-lethal self defense. I am talking about using a sidearm and ammunition that at least resembles what local LEO are issued.

Douchebad DA: Mr Ghoti, what led to you decision to buy the Shootmeister 2000 and load it with Mushroom Cloud ammuntition.

ERM: The cops use it, I figured they knew what they were doing.

Douchebag DA: [throws stovepipe hat to ground, stomps it}

Originally Posted by submessenger

In the unlikely event that I may be required to pull the trigger in defense of myself, my family, or just some innocent victim, I hope that I am able to completely and permanently stop the threat, and with no collateral damage. The consequences are the consequences, my morality is satisfied if I prevented unwarranted injury or death. If there exists an ammunition that is better at satisfying this outcome, I feel obliged to use it.

It's not the morality, it's the needless suffering on my part. I'm quite comfortable sending 230gr .45ACP Cor-Bons to the party, any improvement with a flashy specialty ammunition is bound to be minimal (see physics/anatomy discussion above) and I'm going to, at a minimum, lose my house to legal fees if the investigation proceeds past the grand jury. Don't need that, in addition to whatever trauma I suffer in the attack.

I accept that there are dimwits, propagandists, outright liars, and stupid-ass laws. But, I wouldn't NOT use these just because I fear that I might lose in court, especially if they prove to be more effective, and double-especially if they prove to be both more effective and less- or non-lethal.

Also, did anyone else notice that the non-lethal versions of these bullets appear to have disappeared totally from the website?

Ho hum, this is stuff that has happened in my state of residence recently:

I am not going to pretend that I know what happened at Pinkerton's house, but I know that in other states he never would have been charged without a pretty compelling reason. And the bottom two serve to highlight the quality of my state DA.

My concern is with maiming someone instead of killing them due to a manufacturer defect or design flaw. Bullets put holes in people. No desire to over-complicate things for now. I still want to buy some of the rounds and shoot plastic jugs and watermelons with them, though.

Last edited by Cassius; 1/17/2014 6:14pm at .

"No. Listen to me because I know what I'm talking about here." -- Hannibal

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Mar 2006

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The price of a SHOT Show booth isn't that bad if you don't go crazy with your setup. Most properly financed small businesses should be able to afford it. It's a cost-effective means of advertising, especially considering prices of alternative advertising. The SHOT Show is how Otis got their start from basically nothing when they were making cleaning kits at their kitchen table.

If you can't afford a few thousand bucks for a SHOT booth, you probably can't afford R&D for your miracle ammo either.

The price of a SHOT Show booth isn't that bad if you don't go crazy with your setup. Most properly financed small businesses should be able to afford it. It's a cost-effective means of advertising, especially considering prices of alternative advertising. The SHOT Show is how Otis got their start from basically nothing when they were making cleaning kits at their kitchen table.

If you can't afford a few thousand bucks for a SHOT booth, you probably can't afford R&D for your miracle ammo either.

There are alternate means of free or cheap advertising. When you are spending all your margins on existing and growing, shelling out 3.5k HURTs.