Guest Blogged by Emily Levy of VelvetRevolution.us
-- Now UPDATED several times by Brad Friedman from on the road...

Brad just called me with the following:

"I'm in Sacramento tonight for screening of Uncounted but wanted to give you a quick update. Dennis Kucinich's campaign did in fact get their money in on time. The recount will be starting tomorrow. However, on the Republican side, though the money was wired to the bank for candidate Albert Howard, according to sources on the ground, something at the bank delayed release of the funds in time to meet Secretary of State Gardner's 3:00 p.m. deadline. As I wrote last night, Gardner's demand for full up-front payment does not seem to be in accordance with the law, which requires only a written guarantee that payment will be made. Trying to learn more but may not have anything until tomorrow because I'm off the grid for much of the night."

Guess that's a solar-powered movie, then.

UPDATE: Apparently SOS Gardner will still allow Howard and his team to have a count if he comes in with the money later, according to hints in the Union Leader.

UPDATE FROM BRAD, 1/16/08, 10:35am PT: I was able to speak to some of the Kucinich folks last night (stepping out from the screening in Sac) to try impress upon them some of the chain-of-custody issue concerns described in Bev's comments below. We'll see if I made any progress. As I tried to explain in yesterday's piece, due to the extraordinarily complex and technological systems used in elections these days, a simple count of the paper ballots does not do the trick.

Most notably, I've tried to draw the Kucinich team's attention to Albert Howard's extraordinarily good letter to SoS Gardner, describing exactly what is needed if one is to have a legitimate and reconcilable recount that will offer the confidence in the count, as sought in the first place. If you haven't seen that letter, please do. It's at the bottom of this post from yesterday, and serves as a very good template for any candidate asking for a recount these days, in an election using a computerized voting systems such as the easily hackable, prone-to-error Diebold op-scan system (and many others just like it!)

Still on the road today, rolling from Sac to Oakland, so on and off the net throughout the day. More updates when I'm able...

UPDATE FROM BRAD, 1/16/08, 1:05pm PT: Just spoke with Albert Howard spokesperson Eric Newhouse. Just after 3pm ET, a check for the full $55,600 was delivered to and accepted by SoS Gardner for the Republican-side hand count. The Republican ballot count, he says, will now begin... More, again, as I can learn it as I roll in N. California...

UPDATE FROM BRAD, 1/16/08, 1:17pm PT: Marc "Armed Liberal" Danziger --- who last week had called me "Tawana Brawley" (an African-American woman who had claimed, without evidence, that she was gang-raped by a number of high-ranking, white NY public officials some years ago) --- has just written a new post headlined "Start Sauteeing The Crow". Writes Danziger [emphasis his]

As irritated as I was at Brad Friedman for coming out of the gate with what I saw as a conclusion unsupported by specific evidence, I fully share his discomfort with the current technology and processes used in voting in New Hampshire.

He points to a "rigorous study" at ScienceBlogs.com and quotes from their analysis of the reported NH results (as "counted", until now, only by an error-prone, hackable Diebold optical scanner, and double-checked by nobody). Danziger says they write:

To my complete (and continuing) amazement, the "diebold effect" on Hillary's votes remains after controlling for any and all of those demographic variables..., with a p-value of

Note: I'm still on the roll and haven't had time to check the study he points to yet.

Also note: Danziger, above, claims that he was "irritated" (he had written I deserved a "boot to the head" and was claiming a "Diebold conspiracy") when I offered "a conclusion unsupported by specific evidence".

The only "conclusion", I ever "offered" was that 80% of the paper-ballots in NH have never been counted by anybody. That conclusion is 100% accurate, and fully supported by very specific (and undisputed) evidence. I wrote, at length, about Danziger and others of his supposedly-Progressive ilk, and their phony unevidenced claims about my accurate claims back here.

He needn't "sautee crow". What he needs to do is retract and apologize. Period. Not sure why that's so difficult for him (and the others).

"Have been speaking with the Kucinich folks, and am encouraged by the early word. It seems they may finally be begging to "get it". Will have more soon when I'm back online and can get you more.

But for now, the Kucinich team is putting out the word that they need more observers for the election contest hand-counts in New Hampshire immediately. If you are available to get there, they are counting every day starting at 9:00 a.m. at the State Archives Building, 71 South Fruit Street, Concord, New Hampshire. Contact lead Kucinich attorney Manny Krasner on the scene. Bring video cameras and lots of blank tapes if you can."

See update on volunteering, below.

UPDATE: 1/16/08, 8:15pm PT: Final update in this thread. RESULTS OF FIRST DAY HAND-COUNT NOW IN. Many mis-tallied ballots reported, Diebold memory cards now "missing", much more. Details now here...

UPDATE 1/17/08 6:25 PM PST by Emily Levy: There are enough volunteers for tomorrow's counting. After Friday's counting, the count will be suspended for the Dr. Martin Luther King Holiday weekend and is scheduled to resume next Tuesday. Folks on the ground in NH ask that you not show up there without talking with someone first, as they don't want anyone to make the trip unless they're needed. Volunteering will be coordinated, and that system is being set up now. Check back here for updates.

I watched "Uncounted" last week. I cried from beginning to end. I had a tough time getting to sleep that night. I have already sent it off to a colleague who will be sending it to another friend and on and on..
Everyone needs to see this film.
Great job.

Re: the Republican recount snafu...
Want to lay odds that it turns out to be a oh-so-inconveniently timed "dispute" over a PayPal donation? ...

Backdoored by a backcharge... the ability of anyone to use PayPal to lock up your entire bank account at the drop of a hat by disputing one transaction is why I keep refusing to tie my bank account to my PayPal account in spite of PayPal's constant exhortations for me to do so because it will be "easier" and "safer" for me.

Actually it would be neither easier nor safer for me... just more profitable for them.

Ridiculous. Ron Paul raises 14.5 mil in one day. Two separate you tube videos of Boston Globe's Boston.com screen show the AP reporting Ron Paul leading McCain by hundreds to one, yet the headline has the "official" numbers giving it to McCain. Isn't Ron Paul the least bit curious about the alleged disparities? Maybe I was dreaming?

The secretary of state demanded over $55,000 from Albert Howard but only about $30,000 from Kucinich. Howard was told he had to pay for the whole state, and raised the money for the whole state, with $30,000 available as of yesterday and the remaining amounts wired. Had he been provided with the same options as Kucinich he would have been able to pay for a subset to get started.

It was clear to everyone that a check from Albert Howard was something the New Hampshire secretary of state did NOT want to receive. They seem unworried about the limited recount requested by Kucinich. Probably with good reason: Kucinich has chosen some of the most corrupt locations in the state, without asking for or requiring any answers on chain of custody.

Black Box Voting is a nonpartisan organization, and we do not work with campaigns but we do provide educational or procedural information to anyone, including candidates, on an equal basis. We provided input on chain of custody issues to both Kucinich and Howard.

Kucinich, who is relying on people on the ground in New Hampshire, did not receive answers to the questions about chain of custody because apparently they did not get asked. Both his people told me they trust the chain of custody, though admitting that they don't quite know what it is or how it works.

Albert Howard presented a letter to Secretary of State Bill Gardner requesting information on chain of custody. Gardner declined to answer any of the questions saying the issues had nothing to do with the recount.

They are counting Manchester tomorrow. It will match, count on it. And as long as you aren't picky about that lil' ol' chain of custody, that will prove that the LHS-coded Diebold voting machines are great.

Seems there was a problem with the machines counting the Democrats votes in Michigan too. I hope this isn't a pattern.

You know that if the Kucinich count shows the machines were wrong in NH, the media is going to focus on Democrats messing with elections and nothing will be said about the Republicans and the super-plethora of D-turned-R anomalies we've been watching here.

If it's separate, I'm predicting they will railroad a non-recount on the Republican side to prevent analysis of Ron Paul's votes. Personally, I find it hard to believe a guy who's always winning or up there in straw polls and who raised several million dollars in one day, several million in the last quarter of 2007, and is almost on par with Hillary as far as fundraising, is getting less so few votes. On a personal level again, here in Pa. I see more Ron Paul enthusiasts BY FAR than any other candidate, and I've heard other people say that, too.

I'd follow the Republican recount very closely. To me, that seems fishy.

I don't understand this idea of having a deadline for the candidates to provide $$$ for the recount. Is there a deadline for a recount? What if say, Ron Paul goes ahead and requests a recount tomorrow? What are they going to say? You have until 3PM the NEXT day to submit $60,000 or else you lose out too???
How did the SOS come up with that deadline? Did he just pull it out of his ass?

New Hampshire law required that any candidate requesting a recount do so by last Friday. Both Kucinich and Howard did.

The law also says (and is linked to on one more more BRAD BLOG articles, I believe) that candidates are required to pay the deposit and commit in writing to paying the rest of the costs, but Secretary of State Gardner told them they had to pay up front. Given whatever happened today at the bank with the money for the Republican recount, it'll be interesting to see whether the SoS's decision about up front payment is challenged.

Ron Paul is sitting on over $20,000,000. Paying for a recount would have been chump change to him.
As far as Bev mentioning how Kucinich's people are not asking questions about chain of custody- well what good would it have done if they did? You say Howard presented Gardner with a letter asking all the right questions (I'm guessing it was written with substantial input from you folks) and Gardner essentially told Howard to go screw himself.

Kucinich has paid $25K so far and the recounts start in Concord at 9:30 this morning in the State Archives Building. This amount covers approximately the first 100,000 ballots. The first counties to be counted will be Manchester and Hillsborough. Total cost estimate for a full hand-recount of all Dem ballots is estimated to be $67,600.

If Republican candidate Albert Howard were to come up with [unclear whether all or a portion of] the estimated cost of $57,600 tomorrow, SOS Gardner said he would consider allowing the recount for the Repubs to go forward.

Horrific. I'm revulsed. And I thought I was no longer revulse-able. Truly, I feel physically hung.

The_zapkitty said: "...paypal is not mentioned. A wire tranfer that didn't register in time?"

ZAP~according to the Grannies, it was a 1000.00 dollar donation that was "flagged as suspicious". They posted today: "We have sent off the money to a newly opened bank account in NH opened by the former Attorney General for this purpose. The funds left our account and we thought it was a done deal...
"As soon as I sent out the message the money was on its way we received a big donation of $1000 and it got flagged as a suspicious entry.?"
************************
I don't know anything about PAYPAL transfers, and it seems reasonable to me that funds may take a few days to clear. STILL--the PAYPAL site DID crash and freeze last night (causing several BRADBLOG readers point it out and ask if it was secure.) Is that typical of PAYPAL?...Does it "crash" if it gets too much traffic? Don't they handle and host HUGE charity events on-line, i.e. GORE's latest GLOBAL BALL with millions of donations coming in simultaneously from all over the world?

Sigh.

And now BEV tells us the KUCINICH people ARE NOT EVEN that concerned about the chain of custody?! I would think after Mr. Kucinich's years of hard work, trying to pass election legislation, he and his people would be remotely intrigued. Dissapointing.

BIG DAN--YES~! I don't understand Dr.Pauls low-balled percentage points AT ALL in these early primaries. It's been mentioned here many times, but as I watched the results coming in I kept wondering HOW PAUL, who was predicted to place THIRD in N.H., had an EVEN KEELED 6-8% of the vote in (almost) EVERY DISTRICT, while GULIANI was getting a 1-2% lead on him (almost) across the ENTIRE STATE? You're telling me people voted within a clean-shaved 2-4% margin between GULIANI and RON PAUL EVERYWHERE? Irregardless of demographic ? Whether RURAL or URBAN? Whether North or South? Whether or not Hillary CRIED?

Tragically, we will never know how well R.P. might have really done in NH. Or Michigan. Or South Carolina...

Or how about GULIANI just edging out PAUL, who had a constant presence in N.H., doing town halls, press/ meeting with voters; while RUDY diddled around down here in Florida...
...up to no good in this DRE, anti-paper, still shell-shocked state.

RE: FLORIDA's upcoming primary nonsense on the 29th, all the petty pundits are saying "GULIANI needs Florida to stay viable. I BET he does.
We frantically prepare.

My deepest regrets to all: FLORIDA will have no DEM Delagates (or only half? Not sure) just like we saw in Michigan tonight. I swear I fought that, filmed it, even subjected myself to interviewing DEMOCRATS at DISNEYWORLD to get to the bottom of that travesty. We really did try to fix, that--but we were shouted down BY THE RANK-AND FILE STATE DEMs, and many others, actually.

Seems the DEM CHAIR, KAREN THURMAN, has broad support within the party even though it has come to light that she is a paid lobbyist for...ya.
The ex REPUBLICAN CHAIR. They like to pass money back and forth for stuff. They say it's "homeland security" related.

Sorry to double post after such a lengthy word-off, but I just noticed this line from the Grannies post: "We have sent off the money to a newly opened bank account in NH opened by the former Attorney General for this purpose...
WHICH former attorney general?

As far as Bev mentioning how Kucinich's people are not asking questions about chain of custody- well what good would it have done if they did?

(post 17). The New Hampshire law says:

The secretary of state shall, before any state election, prepare and distribute to each town and ward clerk containers to be used for preserving ballots and sealers to seal each such container. He shall prepare special containers and sealers to be used for preserving any special and separate ballots for questions to voters.

If ballots show up in invalid containers that have not been legally sealed, they are worthless.

Additionally there are more requirements to show who had custody of the containers, when, and other relevant info. This info is given under penalty of perjury, so anyone falsifying info gets the Scooter Libby treatment (sans pardon I presume).

Use it or loose it. One can "waive" (say goodbye to) their constitutional and other rights.

And in fact, the chain of custody scenario where it may be required to make a demand before any right to a chain of custody argument is preserved. Like in court where one does not object, one can not raise that issue on appeal. It is "waived".

In court there are suppression hearings prior to trial. The issue in such scenarios concerns the question "is there valid evidence" sufficient to proceed to trial.

Where there is no valid evidence there can be no valid case. And so, if Kuchinich has waived our right to valid evidence, he has waived democratic processes and has thrown us to the wind.

After all, he said he was doing it for us, the people. Such a practice could amount to malpractice if it were a lawyer - client or doctor - patient standard being applied.

I attended UNCOUNTED at the Crest Theater in Sacramento. (Obviously I live there)

I got to meet Brad who is a very cool person in my opinion (Everyone in this nation needs to support Brad), I didn't interview him or nothing like that. (Kind of wish I'd brought a camera in hindsight. It would have been great stuff for my local public access cable tv show.) I tried to get to the microphone, but the time ran out, and the line kind of did me in... I wanted to speak, not ask questions. If allowed to speak, I would have said the following.

If the candidates had until last Friday (by New Hampshire law) to apply and pay for a recount the Secretary of State should have to maintain the chain of custody (of all materials paper and electronic )at a minimum up until the time that a candidate has to officially request a recount.

If the chain of custody of the paper ballots is broken, this is now a patriotic litmus test for everyone in America being prepared in all precincts, districts states and territories to be ready, get laws in place now to completely nullify any election in this nation, (or it's precincts, districts, states, territories) that broke the chain of custody, and to force a emergency special election immediately.

And that any sworn in candidate, measure, proposition, bill or anything that is voted on such an election, be either removed from office, nullified until it's clear what the people wanted, it's time to be rolling back and nullifying all law and candidates that can not be validated as actually elected or voted on.

Not just candidates should be able to request a recount. Citizens of the United States and it's districts and territories should be able to request a recount.

All electronic vote tabulation devices need to be eliminated. It's not just the software open source vs. closed source, it's the hardware as well, nobody knows what happened at the doping level inside of any of the chips inside of these electronic vote tabulation devices without destructively reverse engineering them. (That means tearing them apart chip by chip, layer by layer under an electron microscope to look for anomalies. Anomalies that may or may not be found, I might add. Someone (Hursti? Felton? Curtis?) said in the UNCOUNTED that code couldn't be made to remove itself without a trace, well I can tell you now that you can do that at the hardware level by BURNING UP LOGIC circuits. Basically a one time use specially crafted chip. And unless you can destructively reverse engineer all the chips you wouldn't know. This is also in part why these electronic vote tabulation devices are unconstitutional.

If a device with unknown, hardware and software is to be used in an election, that device needs to be limited to providing one function: Assisting voters to Print a paper ballot to be hand counted.

A holiday, "Election Day" or "Election Week" needs to be enacted.

Anyone caught breaking the law that was involved in elections, or in control of elections needs a lot more time in jail than 18 months. How long? I don't really know, it should be at least longer than twice the length of time that any candidate was elected. If not life itself. And they shouldn't be allowed to work for any classified or unclassified, government, state, or for any company, corporation, LLC, or anyone else that contracts for the government. Any Whistle-blower however needs protection from all parties corporate, precinct, district, state, territory. (If this isn't worded proper that's because I ain't a lawyer, if you are a lawyer and want to word this proper don't screw up my intent.)

Precincts, that provide electronic devices that print ballots should also provide their own backup power supply. Trusting the grid is not enough.

And finally Everyone must follow the pre-Bush executive order years version of the US Constitution. (You know that damn piece of paper that we all grew up learning about in school, of visiting and looking at under the glass?!) Executive orders that are unconstitutional should be dropped and rejected the moment they are submitted. The current state of the constitution is so bad, that there can be only one reason for it. Abuse of power. And there should be laws for that too. In fact this whole loophole of immunity because of being a president needs to be plugged. If a president has broken his sworn oath of office, he or she should not have immunity from anything, he or she should be in a jail cell.

End of what I would have said...

Okay, with all that, it's probably a good thing I didn't get to speak.

I got to admit, I didn't learn much from UNCOUNTED that I didn't already know, but then I've been feasic of this issue, since somewhere around 2004.

Yes I came in late to this situation. And since that time I have always tried to think about this on my own. Using my knowledge of being a veteran in the USAF (aircraft electrician), electronics, digital logic, transmitters and receivers, programming, tcpip networking and network security as a systems administration for an ISP.

I really wish I could have spoke, but hey in fairness there probably wasn't enough time.

It seems to me that we have 10 months or less to get our priorities straight. If it doesn't happen there really can be no confidence in our elections. There seems to be no national standards, each State having it's own chaotic way of messing things up. Policies and procedures be damned if basic security can not be enforced.

Kindest regards to Brad and all the folks that helped get the UNCOUNTED scheduled to roll at the Crest Theater. KSAC 1240AM, the Film Festival people, and the fine folks that actually attended. Everyone was nice, helpful, and I hope everyone who attended learned something and have decided to take some action. They might also notice that there isn't many of us who really care about these issues, I've personally seen more people in that theater (The Crest) during an Yngwie Malmsteen concert. That's not to say that the folks that attended are not the most patriotic in the nation for caring about our sacred elections.

I hope you all realize now, why I get so pissed off in these Bradblog.com threads over the years.

The news just keeps getting worse and worse about our civil liberties and the US Constitution. I don't see that trend ever changing unless we regain our right to vote back.

"Backdoored by a backcharge... the ability of anyone to use PayPal to lock up your entire bank account at the drop of a hat by disputing one transaction is why I keep refusing to tie my bank account to my PayPal account in spite of PayPal's constant exhortations for me to do so because it will be "easier" and "safer" for me."

This is exactly why I don't use PayPal at all. I know it cuts a lot of people off, I have the same problem at eBay, I usually scroll to the bottom of the item FIRST to see if they have other methods of payment. If they don't I close the Firefox tab of that particular item.

It's easy to file, only small filing fee normally under $100, paperwork is simple and some legal people here on the forums know how to do that. Each voter could sue one at a time. I'm sure anyone who donated could sue, and who cares, file it anyway, send a message.

The SOS needs to be recalled. He should be doing a recount on principal alone. NH people need to start a recall petition right now.

The SOS needs to know a recall will be done if he doesn't do whats right, here's info:

"the candidate shall pay the fees as provided in RSA 660:2, III and shall agree in writing with the secretary of state to pay any additional costs of the recount."

Nothing about a 1 day pay or else timeframe. NOTHING! Look for yourself.

This is what the SOS MUST do: 660:4 "Upon satisfactory application for a recount as provided in RSA 660:1, the secretary of state shall begin the process of recounting the ballots on the Wednesday following the deadline for requesting a recount."

660:1 has been satisfied, the "agree to pay" part has been submitted. NOTHING about any time limit to pay in the law.

You should be really upset about this, steaming mad, American votes aren't being counted properly!

(and 1% difference is all we need to get the money returned it looks like)

We should all call Dennis's campaign at (877) 413-3664 and tell him how we feel about ignoring the chain of custody issues. Where is Cynthia Mckinney when you need her? Also, the Kucinich contact (maybe a lawyer?) on the ground is Manny Krasner. I had his email, but must have written it wrong - got failed delivery notification. You can get it from the # above. What is dennis trying to pull? Is he only there to legitimize the system?

Shouldn't Bev & Brad both be in NH? I don't understand how you can write about all of this, follow it, but not physically be there to participate.

{Bev Harris is in New Hampshire. I am not, but apparently have been able to write about NH just fine from here (currently in N. California, and on the roll, now in a parking lot, hijacking wireless) At least more accurately and better sourced than just about anybody else in the media right now (unfortunately). --- BF}

Hey! I know what to do. Anyone who gave money should demand Kucinich look into chain of custody, or else it could be that you want your money back - or maybe been defrauded of money? Maybe too harsh, I don't know. But if he is just there to justify the system....

Bev is there, and has been there for a few days. I've tried to call and email the Kucinich camp a few times unsuccessfully. I'll keep trying. As the State of Vermont also is under the thumb of LHS, I am very, very disturbed.

"The secretary of state demanded over $55,000 from Albert Howard but only about $30,000 from Kucinich. Howard was told he had to pay for the whole state, and raised the money for the whole state, with $30,000 available as of yesterday and the remaining amounts wired. Had he been provided with the same options as Kucinich he would have been able to pay for a subset to get started."

And what is the legal justification for treating Howard different from Kucinich? According to Leftisbest in Comment#18, Howard may be allowed if he can get the funds in.

But really, I don't think the SOS can treat one recount request differently from the other.

And what the heck is Kucinich doing if he doesn't recount the entire state? Haven't we learned enough from Ohio to know that recounts of a "few" areas will probably, "magically," match the "official" totals?

geez, my patience is getting worn with all the half-facts being thrown around.

"But really, I don't think the SOS can treat one recount request differently from the other."

There is no difference. It is $0.24 per precinct. PERIOD. Kucinich brokered a subset of precincts, just like Nader did before him. It is a token effort which does NOTHING but makes Diebold machines look good and vindicates all those vendors. (Bravo!)

Kucinich would owe $67,600 for the whole state. He never planned to do that, so he only paid $25,000 (plus the initial $2,000?), because he is only going to do a few precincts and STOP when the results match. JUST like Nader did.

Howard owes $57,600 for the whole state and it could be that he never gave a list of the precincts in question.

This makes it very easy for the media to tell activists to "get over it" and NO candidate will be able to ask for a recount without criticisms. Thanks for all those who didn't listen to Tobi. The real issue is the chain of custody, not the tabulation.

I published this on my blog, which doesn't get much traffic, but I feel like I should what I can: "Guess what? The Kucinich people aren't corcerned about the chain of custody of the paper ballots originally counted by machine in NH. Also, there have been a report of votes being rejected for Ron Paul in Michigan. But you know what you can do? Call a Mr. Dave Kelly at this #: (216) 570-1080. He is one of the Kucinich people on the ground in NH, and he needs to know that the ballots have been sitting around somewhere for 9 days now - and could have been tampered with!" Shaysreblog.blogspot.com

I have the utmost respect and admiration for those who are desperately trying to expose the cesspool of fraud that our election process has become. Tragically, it seems like the deck is stacked against counting all of the votes and both parties are dealing off of the bottom.

I am just about at the point where I want to de-register to participate in this hopelessly corrupt process. It would be difficult to maintain the illusion of democracy if no one participated.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like to be a quiter. But at some point, I will get too tired to keep flogging this dead horse. The corporate media determines reality for far too many citizens and the corporate media is in the business of spreading progaganda and ignoring corruption. Laws concerning the recount in NH have been scrapped to frustrate those in search of truth, to the point where it seems obvious that those in power will simply not allow a true reliability test of the voting system to happen.

I'm through working for Ron Paul and I accept that the time and money I have spent supporting him was a fools errand. If he doesn't care enough about vote integrity to challenge insecure tabulation machines, I don't have any desire to continue supporting his effort.

The Republic is indeed dead and there is simply no way to move the sailboat of honest elections against the hurricane force winds of our utterly corrupt and fixed electoral system.

If Kucinich isn't concerned about the chain of custody, what does that say about his accuracy as a leader. DO NOT GET ME WRONG. I like Kucinich *A LOT* but what does it say? Just asking a friendly question I hope folks ask themselves. It's even possible he might actually find something in his recount. nobody knows yet.

Another argument could easily made against ALL * other candidates as to why they don't even care about a recount (sic) ... an accurate validated count in the first place. And what does that say about their leadership?

Interesting when you think about it like that.

#2
reply to The_Zapkitty

Firewall off paypal?
Do tell the secret.
There still has to be some kind of risk. Cause that's why I never signed up.

I found this at the Grannywarriors site:"Bev Harris and L Landis were at the original meeting with Albert and Eric and said they were actually beligerent and demanding and really pissed off the SOS with their demands for computer parts being examined etc. They had already agreed to allow us to video the recount and were co operating until the BlackBox ladies showed up and demanded more and more. Albert said he hugged the SOS when they left and asked him to please not hold a grudge against us but he then demaded the money immediately before 3 PM. Hopefully we can get him to change his mind with some nice phone calls letting him know we are not accusing him of any fraud just we want to have our votes recounted." I hope we don't end up having some separation between the Libertarian Republicans and the other reformers from the left because of this kind of thing. We have to be in this together.

I just want to give the BradBlog a huge thumbs-up for covering the recount story because I read a lot of blogs, and you know, the left-wing blogs are ignoring this for the most part, accepting the results and saying let's just move on. Or saying, let's get it fixed (no pun intended) by November. Apparently it is ok with some left-wing bloggers to have a fix in in the primaries though.

..."I hope we don't end up having some separation between the Libertarian Republicans and the other reformers from the left because of this kind of thing. We have to be in this together."

I was VERY worried to read that from the Grannies, too. I'm going to write to them today, explain how BEV had NOTHING to do with why they didn't get their recount/ that the officials/ Garnder HAD NO INTENTION of letting them video tape as they recounted PAUL's votes for the entire state! I can't believe they would POST that, put that in the minds of the wonderful people who donated to this effort.

The only truly encouraging thing about ANY of this HORSESHIT is the thousands of R.P. people waking up/ ACTING on these anomolies and WORKING WITH E.I. groups who know what they're doing.

Yes, John Y--I'm VERY concerned about this, too. Might we see them divide this new, powerful coalition the same way they divided us in the EI movement with HOLT? How can we prevent that before it snowballs out of control and ruins this alliance, one that's CRITICAL to whether or not NOV 2008 means diddly-squat?

Urging everyone here at BRADBLOG to write the Grannies, and KINDLY explain why the S.O.S. would stop at NOTHING to keep them from counting the votes. Why chain of custody is important, why NOTHING Bev did affected the inevitable outcome for them in this heroic effort/ urge them to remove that statement and FAST.

The R.P. people are crushed by this strange turn of events, they may flip out a bit. Please, let's be as patient with their learning curve as we can. They're TRYING so hard to catch up to us.
Remember YOUR first time getting smacked around by the corruption within the system? We SHOULD NOT transfer our pain--just our stats, our info/ our passion, and above all--our reason.
I adore you people.
Thank God for you all.

Haven't been able to locate contact info for the grannies on their site. They have included the #s for the Sec of State Gardner and Gov. on their site. Still think everyone should callDave Kelly (Kucinich member on the ground)and politely and nicely explain the importance of chain of custody. You will get a message machine most likely. (216) 570-1080. Thank you to everyone. By the way, I saw a report video at rawstory about the recount. They mentioned that the Clinton people were there watching too. Interesting...

Talked to David Kelly. He seemed to think that the point of chain of custody was "critical" and thanked me for bringing it up. So, I hope this means they understand and are on it. If your calling him, maybe we should stop calling, so we don't bug him - and see if he really gets it.

Hey, John Y--WOW! Okay, just tried to get you the contact info for the Grannies, and actually made CONTACT with someone in their group--CHRIS--who tells me the HOWARD REPUBLICAN RECOUNT is BACK ON!?? Says S.O.S. gave the go-ahead earlier today for a FULL REPUBLICAN RECOUNT FOR ENTIRE STATE?...

I don't have this confirmed, and CHRIS had to run/ his phone was ringing off the hook. ??? In the time I had, I congratulated him/ thanked him/ and urged him to remove that recent comment re: "the black box ladies" on their site/ stressed the importance of working together and withstanding whatever barbs they throw at us, as they intend to divide and conquer.

I don't know what to make of this info. Even if it's true, I wonder WHY the S.O.S. capitulated? Fully prepared to retract my above post re: how they would never allow this, AFTER we know more.

God knows, I'd LOVE to be really, really wrong.
If I am, I promise to openly rejoice in my affected ignorance.

To think my great (great?)uncle Col. Ellsworth gave his life preserving freedom under the leadership of his room-mate Abraham Lincoln, so we can now watch both our parties dismantle our constitution in this current day of the "all- mightiest- dollar" really seems the last bastion of freedom has and is in our rear view mirror. That once sacred lady of liberty is now a decrepid piece of scap copper. For Sale. 10 cents on the dollar anyone?

I do not know where to begin with all of this so I will just lay out the basic facts as they are being reported to me:

The state of New Hampshire ballot appeared to have been tampered with.
The people of America (and about half of the world too!) pulled together to sign a petition and have their voice heard, across the aisle, in an effort that has seen both Democrats and Republicans call for a recount of the ballots for the state of New Hampshire.
The Secretary of State placed a January 15th @ 15:00 deadline for the $55,600 to be handed over to cover the cost of the recount.
The money was raised by, again, people from all walks of life who simply wanted to see that every vote was counted.
At the very last moment, PayPal froze the Granny Warriors account and refused to release the funds whilst they “investigated” a “suspicious” $1000 donation.
The money could not be handed over and thus, at this point in time, it appears that the recount will NOT take place.

So, the following is what we are meant to believe:

PayPal have clearly not been paying ANY attention to what has been happening during this campaign and thus have no idea how quickly and in what amounts the Ron Paul Revolution is able to raise funds.
PayPal were clearly unaware that Ron Paul supporters were in the majority of those donating to this effort and would likely break the target REGARDLESS of what last minute donations were required.
PayPal were so unlucky during the four days that this appeal ran that they managed to:
Crash the original ChipIn at least 3 times making it impossible during this time to donate any money at all.
Destroy the original ChipIn altogether after around $40,000 had been donated requiring the Granny Warriors to start a new ChipIn for the remaining monies.
Crash the new ChipIn for about 2 hours on and off on the final fundraising date.
Stop the recount by denying that all and any funds received are now frozen (note: NOT just the $1000 which, by this point, was no longer needed as we were over the top by then) pending an investigation into where a perfectly decent sized donation came from.
The Secretary of State is unable to stretch the deadline or accept that said funds exist regardless of the amount of documented evidence placed on his desk.
This entirely calamitous and accidental chain of events was, at no point whatsoever, manipulated by anybody to ensure that this recount never took place.

I am sorry but I do not believe for one second that 1 through 4 could possibly have happened without 5 being false.

I feel for you. when I brought the issue up at dailykos I got burned at the stake, people wanted me banned. I've been on that damn site for 4+years and did a helluva lot of research and diarying on the 2004 election issues (I started a group called actionspeaksportland and got the issue raised in Oregon) and I was suprised by the virulent character assinations and number of people who attacked me for questioning the machines. It was and still is un real.

the sos office STILL doesnt have its own poll numbers posted, yes they have unofficial results on who was voted for but no numbers as to ballots cast
i called and inquired last thurs and was told they hoped the numbers would be on their site later that day that was 6 days ago and still no numbers so
i called yesterday and asked when the numbers would be posted,they said, a couple places havent gotten their numbers to us...i asked which places....the gal told me to hold,i did and when she returned she said, my people r just too busy to give out that info
i dont think how many people voted being reported is a suggestion but a law...this is important because all u good folks doing the stats need "how many peops voted precinct by precinct" as many times programs will show by giving an impossible number as the result
example:storey nev 2006 election,question 8 reports 1207 yes votes and 806 no votes which is 2013 votes but the sos says 1881 total voter turnout,hence an impossible result
we r trying to do a math problem with only 1 of the 3 numbers we need...is the sos of nh deliberately with holding the 2nd set of numbers?

It appears Kucinich isn't quite the radical reformer he always presents himself to be and that nobody, including Ron Paul, who is running for president dares to challenge any of the votes. Lovely, just damn lovely.

In the 'live free or die' state it appears everyone is perfectly fine with dying (living in a dictatorship).

Shouldn't Ron Paul be giving some money to both Kucinich and Howard to have the votes recounted? Shouldn't Paul be calling for a Michigan recount? Shouldn't the Clinton campaign be calling for a complete NH state-wide recount to ensure their delegates correctness? Where's the outrage among candidates?

Sheesh.

I think I'll go and suggest to Senator John Edwards that his campaign talk to Kucinich about expanding the recount and perhaps helping him with funds to do it (though Edwards doesn't have a lot of money right now).

Thank you to Bev and Brad for staying on top of this. I am sure we will get the low-down soon re: chain of custody issues in this recount and what we can do, if anything, about it, such as demand a recall, or bring suit.

Dennis is starting to look like an a-hole, rather than the "best candidate for progressives."

His failure to take advice from those in the know and not having open lines of communication is making him look like the standard, closed-loop candidate.

And finally, he's trying to do an important job on the cheap, which is just plain stupid. It's like trying to invade and occupy Iraq with 150K in troops when your Generals are telling you that you need 450K or more --- STUPID, STUPID, STUPID.

As for Bev, I stopped listening to her when she claimed that fighting for honest elections and a recount in Ohio in 2004 was a "non-partisan" issue, as if 99.9% of all electoral fraud isn't done by Rethuglicans FOR the Rethuglican Agenda.

Even this recont in NH, if it reveals anything, will probably be that the candidate that the Rethuglicans want to run against got votes transferred to her from the candidate(s) that the Rethuglicans are most scared of.

Dennis, if you don't want to totally squander your "brand" as "the Progressive Democrat" you should put Brad's mobile # on your speeddial and TAKE HIS CALLS.

"Per contact with Kucinich principals, it is Kucinich's intent to count 100% of the votes statewide.

The SoS of NH, with the insistence that the recount start today, is applying the roughly $27,000 to the areas which are of greatest interest to Kucinich. When the money (the $27K) is nearly exhausted, a request will be made by the SoS for the additional monies.

The money must come directly from Kucinich, or his campaign, and not from the public. Otherwise, it would be great fun to have everyone in NH (and the rest of the world) line up outside the SoS's office with cash in hand to pay towards the costs of defraying the expense. But, for Kucinich, it is only a matter of getting the rest of the money together to take care of the costs of this recount.
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.
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The Democratic Recount, however, is proceeding currently, but there is a huge MAYBE attached to this.

Kucinich (or persons on his behalf) has forwarded $27,000.00 to the NH SoS and the recount has started. However, they will only:

A) recount votes until the $27,000 is used up (at 24 cents per ballot), or,

B) they get enough extra funds to count the rest of the ballots, or,

C) if Kucinich (there was no hypothetical "why?" answer as to Kucinich requesting this) decides he does not want a full recount !

My thought is this.

If we, as the ER community of the US, can't or won't pony up the money to finish this recount, we should all just pack it in and go home with out tails between our legs!!

Nancy Tobi initially weighed in with a nearly tearful plea for one and all to BEG Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich not to ask for a recount. Why, I don't know. But I was not in agreement.

Now, via my phone call to the NH SoS office, it seems that SoS Gardner is making it as difficult as possible for Kucinich to carry out this recount, and is now only letting the recount proceed until the last 24 cents per vote is expended !!

The last time I remember this much overt obstruction to the gaining of legitimate information was in the attempt to find the 18 and a half minutes of tape recordings of Richard Nixon. What is Gardner hiding, anyway??"

I hate to see the way some are jumping all over Kucinich. Give him a chance, he's a smart man and I think he will listen to Brad and others. He is doing so much to open the "eyes wide shut" people knowing he will not win the nomination.

Amy Goodman had him on this morning and asked the questions that were asked in the debate-he was EXCLUDED from -on NBC.

BTW he flew from Las Vegas at midnight last night to vote in DC on the defense authorization bill.

I heard Andy Kohut of Pew interviewed and he was asked how he explained the results in NH. His answer, "I don't." He has studied the exit polling and it does not point to the results. He never mentioned fraud but it was obvious he had no answer for what happened.

"I hate to see the way some are jumping all over Kucinich."
Agree. Where was Obama, Paul, or Edwards- who have way more money, much larger organizations, and more to gain from a recount? They were SCARED. They didn't want to look like "SORE LOSERS". Kucinich is doing it on the cheap probably because that's the only way he can afford to. And yes, it would have been nice if the people he had in NH were closely consulting with Bev- but why the fuck is that Dennis' fault and not the fault of the people he has looking into this. He's still trying to get his message out- with his limited resources he doesn't have time to drop everything and focus on NH. If you want to bitch about somebody bitch about the three names I mentioned above. I was not a Kucinich supporter before this- I am now.

When I saw the post calling for people to come to NH, I really wanted to do it. But I live in NY State, and it would take about 6 hours to get there and back. And I have to be at work on Saturday. And I would have to find a place to stay in NH. Oh, and I am low on funds. So, I think I will write out another check to Kucinich for the amount it would have cost to go there. (I mean in gas.) What do people think? I hope that isn't a cop out

Everyone knows without the slightest doubt that the 2004 S-election was blatantly stolen, where is the outrage about that? The same damn place it has always been, being covered up by the corporate media, plus since only a fraction of the populous ever votes anyway mostly because of the way out dated and corrupt electoral college that throws millions of votes in the trash can most just don't even bother.

So what's the deal Brad? Did the counts get started today? Any preliminary results? Or don't they give that? Do things look according to Hoyle? Any lost ballots? Any "unavailable" ballots? Give us a crumb.

Yes, GWN, you are allowed to dis the snot out of all "public persons"... and, for this, how ever could anyone lucid begin to blame you!?! Sheesh! I'm tellin' ya, this feeling of having had my coffee spiked with LSD keeps hotting right back up just as I begin to think it's wearing off.

Ron Paul didn't ask for a recount because he is CLEVER! He knows the political game as good as anyone (even tho he rarely plays it) and knows that a recount could backfire. As usual, he avoids getting caught up in cat and mouse games and just continues to spread his message as always. Anyone notice that he is the ONLY top-tier candidate who doesn't bash his opponents personally? Also, if he DOES decide to run as an independent after losing a recount, it could hurt his numbers and the "mud-slingers" and smear machines would have a hay-day calling him on it.

BTW...why on Earth would a recount take "up to a month", when the original numbers came out in a matter of hours? What, exactly, is the difference between counting a first time and then counting a second time that makes counting it a secong time take twenty times as long? Someone fill me in here.

No one counted 80% of the votes the first time, johnny4. That has a lot to do with it. Plus hand counting takes more time than spitting a number out of a (hackable) machine. Though, it wouldn't take much longer if there were enough people doing the counting.

johnny4, on election night you had tons of volunteers all hand counting and at most it was 1,200 maybe 2,000 ballots in one location.

We are talking now about hand counting 500,000 ballots with a lot less people. So, yeah, weeks and weeks. This is the one flaw with hand counted. It works great in a pyramid scheme where you have 10 volunteers at very small local level. It is much harder to implement in large cities with 20,000 ballots. (Or Cleveland with 50 times that)

It's very interesting that PayPal blocked the payment for the Republican candidate's recount request. Paypal and Ebay CEO Meg Whitman is one of Mitt Romney's biggest supporters. She has donated to his campaign and actually serves on his campaign staff. But, of course, if you think that had anything to do with the delay, you'd have to be some kind of conspiracy theorist.

A former [republican] congressman and delegate to the United Nations was indicted Wednesday as part of a terrorist fundraising ring that allegedly sent more than $130,000 to an al-Qaida and Taliban supporter who has threatened U.S. and international troops in Afghanistan.

99: Now you know what the Huffington Post is up to: make voting even MORE secretive! No polls to compare against! If the polls don't match "the count"...GET RID OF THE POLLS AND NEVER INVESTIGATE "THE COUNT"! So, Huffington Post sides with corporate America and the proven-insecure e-vote machines!

"... We are talking now about hand counting 500,000 ballots with a lot less people."

And the reason for that small number of people is...?

The NH SoS is not set up to draw on volunteers for a recount-- a recount they obviously did not wish to conduct in the first place.

"So, yeah, weeks and weeks. This is the one flaw with hand counted. It works great in a pyramid scheme where you have 10 volunteers at very small local level."

Ah. Hand counting is now a "pyramid scheme"...? I'd ask you what place you pulled that assertion out from... but I suspect I already know.

"It is much harder to implement in large cities with 20,000 ballots. (Or Cleveland with 50 times that)"

You really shouldn't equate a timetable designed by people to "get an election over with" with a timetable designed by those same people to "discourage recounts". And of course the fact that the majority of New Hampshire's (lack of) election oversight machinery is now designed around EVM's makes the problem much worse.

The bigger the city, the bigger the pool of potential counters to draw from... if that pool knows what to expect and is actually used.

It occurred to me that some of the problems with the polls/outcomes of late could be due to “technological glitches”. Is everyone using tried-and-true programming with adequate security at every level, or has this sphere become an ideological minefield as well?