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Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

The difference between us and Miami is that if Miami wanted to blow out a team they could do it with out thinking twice. Miami isn't playing down to the level of their competition they just don't care until the playoffs. We have stated on several occasions that we want the #1 seed in the East and are willing to kill our selves to do it. However i doubt right now that we could blow out a team if we really wanted to...

You just have to love that line of thinking..

Tonight, all flags must burn, in place of steeples.
Autonomy must return into the hands of the people.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Slump all they want, I know come playoff time, everyone freakin' out now will not be singing the same tune. They'll get it goin.

This proverbial switch that many speak of should "already be on"......cuz we are not only racing the Heat for the best record in the Eastern Conference...but the best record in the NBA for HCA throughout the entire NBA. We are also trying to beat out the Spurs and the Thunder.....with the Spurs on a 11 game winning streak ( and a 1.5 game lead over us ) and the Thunder only a 1/2 game back of us in the League Standings.

They were easily able to find the proverbial "switch" at the beginning of the season...but now appear to be struggling to find it in the dark. Especially with all of this "Play for HCA throughout the Playoffs" mantra.....the way that this Team has been playing since the ASB.....they are not inspiring confidence in myself ( and many others ) that they have a switch that they can simply turn on during the Playoffs.

The bottom line that I see right now is that we are not playing the way that we were playing in the beginning of the season.....and it concerns me that the Team is struggling to find that "swagger" before it is too late.

Last edited by CableKC; 03-20-2014 at 02:14 AM.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

The difference is that I never looked at this team as a Title contender even with their fast start. It's fools blue and gold to a certain extent. I felt like they played above their heads last year to reach the ECF and the bench has not been improved too much. We have too many mentally weak/inconsistent guys on the team and I feel the early season hype actually HURT the team because guys started thinking in terms of individual accomplishments at the detriment of team ball. I would love nothing more for Bird to bring a Title to Indy, but when I look up and down the roster I still see not enough guys who can create their own shot and not enough pure shooters on the team. Defense can only take you so far and even that can't be counted on anymore. I will eat crow if the Pacers win a Title with this roster, but I don't see it.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Maybe they just aren't that good. They only won 49 games last season. The Knicks won 54.

My point is we were no where near as good as 33-7 that we started, but we are better than we look right now.

Pacers are one of the better teams in the NBA, but probably not as good ad the Heat, thunder and Spurs. But as good as any of the other teams. Really, isn't that what 90% of us thought before the season?

is that so bad?

will still win close to almost 60 games this season. How many predicted more than that?

That's the problem here....I think that we have to be as good as we were at the beginning of the season to be any real match against the Heat, Thunder and Spurs. I'd like to believe that we can play like this and somehow squeak out wins....but in the Playoffs...in the ECF, in the Finals....playing like this won't win a Playoff Series.

At this point....this season is Championship or Bust to many of us ( especially when there is a chance that the Starting Lineup next season could potentially be different....with the potential loss of Lance and/or the addition of Turner ) ....including Bird when it came to all of these "All In" moves that he made.

If we continue to play like this into the Playoffs....the Pacers can squeak by against less talented Teams....but against as Talented Teams in the ECF and Finals.....it won't matter.....I do not have much confidence that they can win a 7 game series.

Ash from Army of Darkness: Good...Bad...I'm the guy with the gun.

This is David West, he is the Honey Badger, West just doesn't give a *****....he's pretty bad *ss cuz he has no regard for any other Player or Team whatsoever.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

The difference is that I never looked at this team as a Title contender even with their fast start. It's fools blue and gold to a certain extent. I felt like they played above their heads last year to reach the ECF and the bench has not been improved too much. We have too many mentally weak/inconsistent guys on the team and I feel the early season hype actually HURT the team because guys started thinking in terms of individual accomplishments at the detriment of team ball. I would love nothing more for Bird to bring a Title to Indy, but when I look up and down the roster I still see not enough guys who can create their own shot and not enough pure shooters on the team. Defense can only take you so far and even that can't be counted on anymore. I will eat crow if the Pacers win a Title with this roster, but I don't see it.

Yeah I think a lot of posters got it in their heads that we were a heavy title contender at the beginning of the year, when we actually just used our chemistry and defense to jump out to a quick start when other teams were still putting together their identity. Now that we've come back to earth a little it's a total disappointment, but anyone looking at it rationally the whole year knew we weren't an A1 title contender.

Lot of similarities between us this year and the Knicks last year. Bulls are also eerily similar to us last year.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

I don't know. I'd call it a slump until such time as it continues all the way through the playoffs. I think we could still turn it around, but not sure we will.

The single thing that most drives me crazy is the lackadaisical first half play. Is there not some one in this skein of poor play to deliver an occasional first half with a sense or urgency. I find it unbelievable how flat and disinterested we consistently look. Hanging your hat on big second-half comebacks is not a recipe for success against good competition.

There's no coincidence that defense is all about attitude and effort either.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

The difference is that I never looked at this team as a Title contender even with their fast start. It's fools blue and gold to a certain extent. I felt like they played above their heads last year to reach the ECF and the bench has not been improved too much. We have too many mentally weak/inconsistent guys on the team and I feel the early season hype actually HURT the team because guys started thinking in terms of individual accomplishments at the detriment of team ball. I would love nothing more for Bird to bring a Title to Indy, but when I look up and down the roster I still see not enough guys who can create their own shot and not enough pure shooters on the team. Defense can only take you so far and even that can't be counted on anymore. I will eat crow if the Pacers win a Title with this roster, but I don't see it.

This POV is looking more and more realistic with each passing underwhelming performance. Hope you are not right, but you make some good points.

I think the bottom line, as alluded to elsewhere in this thread, is that for us to be a legit championship contender the foundation has to be elite defense. We have not played it consistently for some time. Whether the offensive issues are the system, the personnel, the execution, whatever, wit this core it's been about defense, and there's no chance it will be at the level we need without consistent focus and intensity.

I thought Quinn was right at halftime last night, and I think he was correct in his post-game analysis. We have to play harder and play more as a team.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Unless you want to believe in some other malaise affecting multiple players taking away their abilities to make wide-open shots and free throws, I don't know what else to call it.

The biggest thing I noticed last night between the Pacers and the Knicks is that the Knicks worked to get easy shots, while the Pacers for the most part did the same-old-same-old that, when countered, led to difficult shots (even the wide-open ones were long 3s).

This offense is not working to get players opportunities. The part that is on Vogel is that it is very simplistic and inflexible. The part that is on the players is that, due to their hesitations and lack of cooperation, they can't (or don't) use what benefits it DOES afford most of the time.

BillS

"Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
- Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Slump all they want, I know come playoff time, everyone freakin' out now will not be singing the same tune. They'll get it goin.

I asked this in another thread, but if the point is to just shrug your way through the end of the regular season and "turn it on" come postseason -- why the heck keep playing Scola through an elbow injury, running David West into the ground, giving starters crazy minutes?

If the strategy is to play for the postseason, they're doing a good job ensuring some of these guys won't be able to give 100% in the postseason.

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Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

So now we aren't title contenders? Damn man I need to take a break from this board. We slump and it's over the season is a lost cause. The heat slump and we hear "Well they won the title the past two years so they don't count!!"

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

I hope you all here are willing to admit you were wrong when we turn it around

That seems a little extreme to me. This is more than a slump, but it doesn't mean it can't be corrected.

I think we've lost our identity and the starting 5 is starting to break down in their trust of each other.

A couple quality wins will completely change that for us, but we need Vogel to crack the whip and enforce our original identity, whether it nets us a win or a loss. We need to see some commitment to what got us here, and Vogel needs to hold the team accountable to follow through on that.

What I'm seeing are elements of the team trying to rejigger our identity on the fly and take it upon themselves to win games. That's not how this team got to 50 wins.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Serious repeat of a question I hinted at above, though - if it isn't a slump, what is it? Were we always this bad and just lucky? Have we been cursed by someone not allowed to bring a goat into the Fieldhouse? Are players injured? If something has changed, what is it?

BillS

"Every time I pitched it was like throwing gasoline on a fire. Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw! Pkkw!"
- Ebby Calvin "Nuke" LaLoosh

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Serious repeat of a question I hinted at above, though - if it isn't a slump, what is it?

I tried to take a crack at it above. I think we succeeded massively this year with a well defined identity and approach to the game. When the team started to slump within that identity (as all teams do at some point throughout the year), instead of staying the course and working through it, members of the team have decided to play differently, take things into their own hands. At least that's how I see it.

There's been a lack of firm leadership to hold people accountable to "stay within the program".

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

I honestly don't know what everyone is so worried about. The Knicks got lucky last night. Indy got some bad calls in the first half, Raymond Felton chucks a three and banks it in off the window. Even though Indy didn't shoot particularly well, the Knicks had to pull out every ounce of magic they had just to win that game at MSG, all the while riding the Phil Jackson "wave". IF they even make the playoffs, they're out in 5 games tops.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

I honestly don't know what everyone is so worried about. The Knicks got lucky last night. Indy got some bad calls in the first half, Raymond Felton chucks a three and banks it in off the window. Even though Indy didn't shoot particularly well, the Knicks had to pull out every ounce of magic they had just to win that game at MSG, all the while riding the Phil Jackson "wave". IF they even make the playoffs, they're out in 5 games tops.

Hmm. What's worrisome to me, is that everyone on the team... from Coach Vogel down to the players, are saying that they're not playing together. Regardless of the wins and losses, if you watch the team objectively, you can see this with your own eyes.

They played tied together earlier in the year, and they can get back to it obviously. But this is more than "the Knicks getting lucky".

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

You mean a shooter like Copeland or Butler? And not Mahimi and random scrubs like Sloan? We need Watson healthy and Vogel to get his head out of his anus.

It would be nice if we had bigs that commanded more attention. That's what Bynum did and Turner and Bynum had great games. I miss Watson's presence badly, but Scola has just been God-awful as of late. He's turned into Hansborough with his terrible jump shot (where the **** did it go lol), except he's worse on defense. If Scola is hitting jumpers then defenses can't buckle down into the paint when Turner drives, but that's not happening. I still don't see why Copeland or Butler don't get more minutes, but hey I'm not a coach.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

I asked this in another thread, but if the point is to just shrug your way through the end of the regular season and "turn it on" come postseason -- why the heck keep playing Scola through an elbow injury, running David West into the ground, giving starters crazy minutes?

If the strategy is to play for the postseason, they're doing a good job ensuring some of these guys won't be able to give 100% in the postseason.

This is a fairly gross misinterpretration of my statement. You're implying that they are sleep-walking on purpose, so they can flip a switch come playoff time when they actually "start trying to win". I never once stated that a switch would be flipped, and "they just start trying". It's more of, they are truly struggling... but come playoff time, they will get it worked out. There's a massive difference between just struggling, and doing it on purpose. I personally don't believe that they are doing it on purpose. They are playing Scola et al because they truly are trying to work it out.

They have 14 games... which to most folks on here is evidently an impossibly short period of time... whereas, I think 14 games is an eternity in NBA-time. A team can get it together in 3-4 games. It can happen slowly, it can happen fast -- sometimes it happens in one game. Especially when a team gets a real good scare, like... a playoff elimination game and their backs get up against a wall. It's just how the ebb and flow of NBA chemistry and teamwork goes.

Last edited by Kid Minneapolis; 03-20-2014 at 12:10 PM.

There are two types of quarterbacks in the league: Those whom over time, the league figures out ... and those who figure out the league.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

It would be nice if we had bigs that commanded more attention. That's what Bynum did and Turner and Bynum had great games. I miss Watson's presence badly, but Scola has just been God-awful as of late. He's turned into Hansborough with his terrible jump shot (where the **** did it go lol), except he's worse on defense. If Scola is hitting jumpers then defenses can't buckle down into the paint when Turner drives, but that's not happening. I still don't see why Copeland or Butler don't get more minutes, but hey I'm not a coach.

It doesn't take a coach to see that Vogel's current rotation isn't working. Bench has been bad all season long and Scola has gotten worse and worse. Sloan stinks, too. Hope to see a healthy Watson sometime soon...

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

Hmm. What's worrisome to me, is that everyone on the team... from Coach Vogel down to the players, are saying that they're not playing together. Regardless of the wins and losses, if you watch the team objectively, you can see this with your own eyes.

They played tied together earlier in the year, and they can get back to it obviously. But this is more than "the Knicks getting lucky".

Well we had a better 2nd half shooting wise. I thought they finally got the ball to Roy. Now if they keep doing that, Roy will become Roy again. And he's right, they've fallen in love with the JS. He and West need the ball more to open things up. As for the team, Vogel just needs to stop sending out the same rotations. Copeland, Butler, Allen, Turner, Watson. That should be the bench. Maybe at times, you can put Solo in place of Butler. But this Scola/Mahinmi stuff can't work. Good to see Vogel put Copeland out there in place of PG last night when PG went to the bench.

He just needs to do that more often so they can develop a rythm. If Scola is gonna be on the floor, then Allen and Copeland should be out there with him. At least stretch the defense.

Re: At what point does it become more than a "slump?"

I will say this and most of you know me, I don't ever get too high or too low.

But if we keep playing at this level right up until the playoffs start (and playing just 1 great game isn't a trend, we need to play a stretch of 5 or 6 really good games) I think we are in real trouble - maybe even in the second round.