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Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

I sat in 212 during playoffs a few years ago. I loved those seats! So much louder than my seats in section 417 - and I'm talking about the crowd, not the stadium programming noise.

Crowd Noise? Maybe for about 30 seconds during the 2009 playoff run the noise from the fans in the stadium approached loud.

But the new building is a freaking mausoleum compared to the real Yankee Stadium. The upper deck used to bounce. Our home field used to be a monster of crowd energy.

The new place....not so much. In fact, most nights, not at all. Just the incessant banging of the stadium programming giving you a headache and only allowing for conversation during the actual playing of the game.

Yet another aspect of the Bizzarro World that is the New Yankee Stadium (where the worst seats in the house sell out first, and the best seats remain empty night after night...)

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Crowd Noise? Maybe for about 30 seconds during the 2009 playoff run the noise from the fans in the stadium approached loud.

But the new building is a freaking mausoleum compared to the real Yankee Stadium. The upper deck used to bounce. Our home field used to be a monster of crowd energy.

The new place....not so much. In fact, most nights, not at all. Just the incessant banging of the stadium programming giving you a headache and only allowing for conversation during the actual playing of the game.

Yet another aspect of the Bizzarro World that is the New Yankee Stadium (where the worst seats in the house sell out first, and the best seats remain empty night after night...)

That wasn't my experience where I was sitting compared to my usual seats (section 417).

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Hmm. I see things totally differently. I think the single biggest sin of the new building is that it is not a raucous building.

The old building had a buzz that is pitifully absent on the north side 161st Street. During a big game, there was a crackle in the air. An undercurrent of energy that could erupt at a big moment. The players (both on the Yankees, and on the visitors) used to talk about it. The massive upper deck, hanging out almost over the field, funneling sound and energy down towards the field of play created the best home field advantage in all of sports.

The Yankees dropped the ball in a BIG WAY by screwing that up. As with most things these days, money was at the heart of it. 1) Chasing the bigger dollars they could charge in the lower bowl by expanding it at the expense of cheaper upper deck seating (this factor pushed the upper deck away from the field; 2) Pricing Main Level middle class fans out of their seats in favor of big bucks hedge fund and corporate ticket holders. Tickets distributed for corporate entertainment typically go to far less enthusiastic fans. 3) Making most of the seats so expensive that the salt of the earth fans (a/k/a the fans most likely to be loud and raucous) were completely priced out of the building; and 4) getting rid of the stacked tiers design of the old stadium, thereby pushing the upper deck even further away from the playing field.

You can blame it on acoustics. In my book, the real culprit is GREED.

Just remember the first thing Terry Francona said when he walked into the building for the first time:

"The thing that's noticeable to me right away is when you walk out of the dugout, the upper deck is not on top of you."

Of all the things the Yankee management got wrong in the new building, this indictment is the worst offense.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by AnskyAddict

Hmm. I see things totally differently. I think the single biggest sin of the new building is that it is not a raucous building.

The old building had a buzz that is pitifully absent on the north side 161st Street. During a big game, there was a crackle in the air. An undercurrent of energy that could erupt at a big moment. The players (both on the Yankees, and on the visitors) used to talk about it. The massive upper deck, hanging out almost over the field, funneling sound and energy down towards the field of play created the best home field advantage in all of sports.

The Yankees dropped the ball in a BIG WAY by screwing that up. As with most things these days, money was at the heart of it. 1) Chasing the bigger dollars they could charge in the lower bowl by expanding it at the expense of cheaper upper deck seating (this factor pushed the upper deck away from the field; 2) Pricing Main Level middle class fans out of their seats in favor of big bucks hedge fund and corporate ticket holders. Tickets distributed for corporate entertainment typically go to far less enthusiastic fans. 3) Making most of the seats so expensive that the salt of the earth fans (a/k/a the fans most likely to be loud and raucous) were completely priced out of the building; and 4) getting rid of the stacked tiers design of the old stadium, thereby pushing the upper deck even further away from the playing field.

You can blame it on acoustics. In my book, the real culprit is GREED.

Just remember the first thing Terry Francona said when he walked into the building for the first time:

"The thing that's noticeable to me right away is when you walk out of the dugout, the upper deck is not on top of you."

Of all the things the Yankee management got wrong in the new building, this indictment is the worst offense.

And yet, despite this awful home-field advantage, the Yankees were still able to win a championship in their first year in the new stadium.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by AnskyAddict

In my book, the real culprit is GREED.

The only reason the Yankees built the new stadium was to increase revenues. If you call that greed, fine. They could have taken the same route as the Red Sox and kept pumping money into the old stadium, but the simple fact was that the massive upper deck where the "salt of the Earth" fans sat didn't produce all that much revenue, relatively speaking.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by Ram Man

The only reason the Yankees built the new stadium was to increase revenues. If you call that greed, fine. They could have taken the same route as the Red Sox and kept pumping money into the old stadium, but the simple fact was that the massive upper deck where the "salt of the Earth" fans sat didn't produce all that much revenue, relatively speaking.

Thanks for helping me see the light. How in the world could the Yankees ever compete when they were saddled with that financial albatross of an upper deck?

I guess those 26 World Championships and 39 American League Pennants were just a fluke.

How could I be so misguided? Obviously, bragging about the amount of revenue a team fleeces out of its fan base is what is important about being a baseball fan.

That comparison about how many championships the Yankees have won, will now take a back seat next time I get into a discussion with a Red Sox fan. Next time, I'm going to hit him right where it hurts....I'm going to talk about how much more revenue our sterile new building produces than that pitiful ball park that every New Englander resents and despises called Fenway Park.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

And yet, despite this awful home-field advantage, the Yankees were still able to win a championship in their first year in the new stadium.

True, but the giddyness and enthusiasm and newness of the new building in 2009 was a factor.

That enthusiasm of the first year has been noticeably waning in the two years since.

I went to about 22 games last year (a pretty good sample size). But take out the DJ3K factor, and most games were dreadfully dull. The energy from the crowd is in precipitous decline.

It's just not like it used to be.

Look at the attendance numbers from last 3 years of the old stadium (2006-2008). The old stadium averaged 92% of capacity (in a bigger building). The new building in it's first 3 years has averaged only 87% of capacity. IT'S FIRST 3 YEARS, when it should have been bursting at the seams. It's first three years, which include a season after a championship year, when most teams greatly improve attendance.

Worse yet, those attendance figures are total BS. Tickets sold does not equal fans in the seats. I was at many a game where by my estimation the stadium was LESS than half full. Yet, at the end of the night the attendance was reported at the usual 45-47,000.

Been to a Phillies game lately?
Or even to a Red Sox game in Fenway?

Have you heard the crowd noise at Citizens Bank Park?
Felt the energy of their fan base?

The bottom line in baseball is not the bottom line on a financial statement (ARE YOU LISTENING HAL?)

The bottom line is engaging your fan base. If your fan base is engaged, the money will flow. If your fan base is being eroded by mismanagement, raising prices to offset loss of interest is a doomed strategy. (Do I need to mention the fiasco with the parking lots).

There is a cancer eating away at the Yankees organization. The greed they exhibit in the fleecing of their fan base is going to catch up to them.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Thanks for helping me see the light. How in the world could the Yankees ever compete when they were saddled with that financial albatross of an upper deck?

I guess those 26 World Championships and 39 American League Pennants were just a fluke.

How could I be so misguided? Obviously, bragging about the amount of revenue a team fleeces out of its fan base is what is important about being a baseball fan.

That comparison about how many championships the Yankees have won, will now take a back seat next time I get into a discussion with a Red Sox fan. Next time, I'm going to hit him right where it hurts....I'm going to talk about how much more revenue our sterile new building produces than that pitiful ball park that every New Englander resents and despises called Fenway Park.

Actually, if you read into the history of baseball, and how the Reserve Clause impacted not only players but whole franchises as well, you may wish to revise your statement about those 26 World Championships, especially those which were achieved before the Amateur Draft and the Setiz Decision.

A successful team had money. That money was like a snowball running down hill. All MLB franchises had an obligation to settle their debt before the new year. Consequently, the "Haves" would buy good players from the "Have Nots" and simply sit those players on a bench, or banish them to an affiliated minor league team. The reserve clause would tie those players to the buying team in perpetuity. The selling teams couldn't keep good talent in the hope of ever being successful.

See Toolson v. New York Yankees

There is a reason why Marvin Miller called Major League Baseball a Plantation.... Those World Championships were not a fluke. The Yankees exploited the existing market to their benefit. Since the rules of the game have changed, the Yankees are obligated to find new ways to win. And if that means outspending everyone else, then they need to find ways to feed that beast. That is why an Upper Deck / Tier does not fit into their plans.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

True, but the giddyness and enthusiasm and newness of the new building in 2009 was a factor.

That enthusiasm of the first year has been noticeably waning in the two years since.

I went to about 22 games last year (a pretty good sample size). But take out the DJ3K factor, and most games were dreadfully dull. The energy from the crowd is in precipitous decline.

It's just not like it used to be.

Look at the attendance numbers from last 3 years of the old stadium (2006-2008). The old stadium averaged 92% of capacity (in a bigger building). The new building in it's first 3 years has averaged only 87% of capacity. IT'S FIRST 3 YEARS, when it should have been bursting at the seams. It's first three years, which include a season after a championship year, when most teams greatly improve attendance.

Worse yet, those attendance figures are total BS. Tickets sold does not equal fans in the seats. I was at many a game where by my estimation the stadium was LESS than half full. Yet, at the end of the night the attendance was reported at the usual 45-47,000.

Been to a Phillies game lately?
Or even to a Red Sox game in Fenway?

Have you heard the crowd noise at Citizens Bank Park?
Felt the energy of their fan base?

The bottom line in baseball is not the bottom line on a financial statement (ARE YOU LISTENING HAL?)

The bottom line is engaging your fan base. If your fan base is engaged, the money will flow. If your fan base is being eroded by mismanagement, raising prices to offset loss of interest is a doomed strategy. (Do I need to mention the fiasco with the parking lots).

There is a cancer eating away at the Yankees organization. The greed they exhibit in the fleecing of their fan base is going to catch up to them.

If you don't believe that, why are you reading this thread?

100% Right. Hit every nail on the head. As much as I hate how much the ownership treats their fans, I still keep coming back but can't do it as often. I was in Citizen Bank Park for game 4 of the WS and that place was ALOT louder then YS Game 6 but CBP was a lot quieter walking out

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

If you don't think having more revenue streams makes a difference in MLB today, well, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Originally Posted by AnskyAddict

The real money is in the TV contract and the YES network.

Attempting to squeeze every last cent out of the fans that go to games is bad business. It WILL come around to hurt them.

If you don't understand the consequences of that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

If I remember correctly there was an analysis done around 2007 that detailed the stadium-generated revenue by team. Interestingly, Old Yankee Stadium was #1 and Fenway Park was #2. So the Yankees were already in a great revenue position without a new park and winning championships to boot.

And I have to say that while trying to maximize revenue is OK in any business - pissing off your customers in the process is not.

It looks like they are selling these seats in plans because they could not sell them at $125 a piece for individual games last year. Seats are $70 a piece for the 9-game "value plan". I think they sold these same seats for $40 a piece with e-savers last year. I would like to try the seats out but I will wait to buy them with an e-saver or from someone who buys a plan and cannot go to all the game so they have to sell them cheep on SH.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by EJMUL

It looks like they are selling these seats in plans because they could not sell them at $125 a piece for individual games last year. Seats are $70 a piece for the 9-game "value plan". I think they sold these same seats for $40 a piece with e-savers last year. I would like to try the seats out but I will wait to buy them with an e-saver or from someone who buys a plan and cannot go to all the game so they have to sell them cheep on SH.

I've tried these seats a couple times. At night they are pretty cool but no where near worth the face value price. For a day game, unbelievably hot and hard to see anything because of the sun. Funny, I think that value plan has a few day games in it.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by Ram Man

If you don't think having more revenue streams makes a difference in MLB today, well, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Originally Posted by AnskyAddict

Attempting to squeeze every last cent out of the fans that go to games is bad business. It WILL come around to hurt them. If you don't understand the consequences of that, I'm not sure what to tell you.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by AnskyAddict

Attempting to squeeze every last cent out of the fans that go to games is bad business. It WILL come around to hurt them.

"Every last cent" is subjective. The Yankees, like any business, need not apologize for being profit-driven. However, treating season ticket holders poorly (read as: lousy customer service) and overpricing tickets results in decreased revenue.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Originally Posted by chan1023

I've tried these seats a couple times. At night they are pretty cool but no where near worth the face value price. For a day game, unbelievably hot and hard to see anything because of the sun. Funny, I think that value plan has a few day games in it.

Even $70 (in the Value Plan) is too much for a "cool view". I've sat in similar seats, not sure if I'd want to sit there all the time you know?

The Value Plan is 9 games and off the top of my head 4 of them are during the day in the summer.

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

Even $70 (in the Value Plan) is too much for a "cool view". I've sat in similar seats, not sure if I'd want to sit there all the time you know?

The Value Plan is 9 games and off the top of my head 4 of them are during the day in the summer.

They're the crappiest games, and because the Yankees will be unloading thousands of tickets at $5 each, the domino effect will mean that those center field seats can be had for way less than 70, $50? $40? $20??

Re: Are you Renewing for 2012?

I think last year the team was unloading them for $40-$55, I don't recall seeing any on SH (probably because nobody was buying them for resale outside of Red Sox/etc games). If people (foolishly) buy for resale I can see them at $30, but there aren't really a lot of them so they might not last very long once they hit a reasonable price there.