It has come to my attention that the land these climbs are on is OFF LIMITS to everyone. Anyone who had intended on going to climb here may not. The land is part of the snake park's reserve and may NOT be accessed

The routes were put up a number of years back, and since then nobody has been back there.

There are a number of reasons why the access issue was never thought about.

1- there are no fences and one can access the area directly from the street.
2 - many of us grew up climbing trad routes on this mountain.
3 - the mountain is the same one as the Chosspile, with this area only a few hundred meters from the upper crags that already exist there.
4 - the area was originally accessed from a walk off route from the Chosspile.
5 - there is a well worn trail that leads to the top of this cliff, which led me to believe that this area was being used for hiking.
6 - There are constantly tramps and vagrants living in these hills, making fires and littering, which led me to believe that people were freely accessing the land.

Climbers pose no threat and are eco conscious people who like to enjoy nature.

I would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused, and the climbs will be removed to prevent anyone from going to the area to climb.

Last edited by stormtrooper on Tue Oct 09, 2007 6:08 pm, edited 6 times in total.

I PM'd you already to ask for the RD.
It sounds like a great crag and it sounds like you guys have done a lot of hard work there.
Thanks!

As for the MCSA bit, I have no idea what happened with Neil (whether he actually received the info you sent or what) so I'm not going to comment on that issue.
But please don't give up on the MCSA on the basis of one exchange with one person. There are a LOT of MCSA members who will be SUPER excited to hear about your new crag. I'm one of them.

I'm not sure what you'd like to do in repect of the MCSA, but if you maybe decide that you haven't given up on them completely, then get hold of me on the email address I sent you in my PM and we can go from there. I'm sure that they'd be keen to send out the info in their newsletter, with your permission. Gimme a shout if you're interested or if you have any other ideas.

_________________All that is gold does not glitter; not all those that wander are lost.

But I think its a bit poor to name and shame Neil when you are not posting under your own name. If you knew the guy, you'd know what a lot of work he has been doing for the MCSA recently on a number of fronts, not just the Rock n Road trip. I don't always agree with him either, but you can't really doubt his commitment to developing climbing through the MCSA.

He has lost interest. There is no copyright on route information, so go ahead - copy & paste away!

Do it quick before Joffrey closes the the site down...

<rant>
I think it's piss poor manners to copy and paste someone else's effort without asking or (at the very least) acknowledging the source.

Just because someone posted it on the web doesn't mean it's all fair game. I feel very strongly that the original authors of RD's get the acknowledgement they deserve. It's hard work!

That said, I think that Wiki's are an excellent way of encouraging community participation and keeping RD's up to date. I'm also pretty sure that someone who's already posted their RD on the web would be pretty happy to share their work.

The Moral 'Ask first'.
</rant>

Sorry about that Gus, I just get uncomfortable when people encourage 'copy and paste' tactics...

_________________You have an opinion, so do I. When these differ, please don't confuse your opinion with the truth, nothing is absolute.

Just wanted to comment on the Saclimb issue. It is Joffrey's site and when I last spoke to him - end of 2006 - he said he was to busy at work and had no time to update the site and would love to have someone to take control of the site for him - but it would have to be someone he could trust as saclimb is his baby that he put many hours of work into.

I will try make contact with him and get him to post a reply, but am sure that he would love to know that the information he has gathered over the years is still benifitting climbers.

He has lost interest. There is no copyright on route information, so go ahead - copy & paste away!

Do it quick before Joffrey closes the the site down...

<rant>I think it's piss poor manners to copy and paste someone else's effort without asking or (at the very least) acknowledging the source.

Just because someone posted it on the web doesn't mean it's all fair game. I feel very strongly that the original authors of RD's get the acknowledgement they deserve. It's hard work!

That said, I think that Wiki's are an excellent way of encouraging community participation and keeping RD's up to date. I'm also pretty sure that someone who's already posted their RD on the web would be pretty happy to share their work.

The Moral 'Ask first'.</rant>

Sorry about that Gus, I just get uncomfortable when people encourage 'copy and paste' tactics...

If someone actually asked me I would appreciate it & glady say yes.

PS. If anyone would like to talk about taking the site over we can talk.

The mountainside opposite the park, stretching from the high school in the east to the dam wall in the west, is known as the mountain reserve and falls under the jurisdiction of the Snake and Animal Park. All access by the general public to this area is prohibited. We do not allow hiking, mountain climbing or any trespassing what so ever in this area.

Your colleague “Stormtroop” has posted information about this mountainside on a web site. Is it possible to supply this gentleman’s true name and address so that we may investigate and take whatever steps are necessary to stop him and his colleagues trespassing on our property. The Park will hold this gentlemen and any of his colleagues, legally liable for all costs occurred to prevent further trespassing and damage to the property.

We hope this message is taken very seriously by those people who intend emulating “Stormtroop” as this gentlemen’s actions are totally illegal.

Apologies, for some reason I foolishly thought you had given permission / did not care to respond. Could you please answer Gustav's question - do prefer keeping SACIN alive? On the one hand I would volunteer to keep it alive, but with a tool like the Wiki competing I think it's doomed to a slow death.

I'd be happy to remove the stuff I added should you not approve of having it there.

Cheers

_________________Live fast, die young & leave a good looking corpse

Last edited by OneDogClimbing on Tue Oct 09, 2007 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Hey StormTrooper, you got busted bru.
Sorry to hear that you have been trasspassing and bolting on restricted land.

We have this thing at the MCSA called the 'Land and Access' sub-committee, perhaps if you were an MCSA member you might have found all this out before wasting your time, money and effort putting up routes that no-one is allowed to access.
Nothing against non MCSA climbers but there are some definite advantages to being a member, especially if you a route developer.

I think the Snake Park's approach is kind of strange. Instead of wanting to chase everyone away, why not create a situation where people need to come to the snake park to pay an access fee etc, more income and exposure for the snake park, less chance of squatters on the hills, more access for climbers - everyone wins?

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