Hailed as a breakthrough in movie editing by Apple chief Steve Jobs, the complete rework of iMovie for iLife '08 has angered some customers who found that many longstanding features had suddenly gone missing.

The company's support discussions for its new video editing tool were the home of several vocal debates in the weekend following its launch, with at least a few disappointed customers arguing that they had been misled by an Apple marketing campaign which suggested a direct successor to iMovie HD '06 rather than a from-scratch product with missing features.

"I even bought iLife just to install iMovie 8 next to my versions of Avid and Final Cut Pro," said one user. "I was thinking that for quick cutting of simple projects this would get me there faster than my 'pro' apps. [But] it is a weakling compared to the old iMovie. [There's] no decent audio control, [a] loss of rubber banding, and weak video [effects]."

Users elsewhere have also complained about the lack of chapter markers and exact playhead positioning, the need for a 1.9GHz G5 processor or better just to run the software, and the inability to port over earlier iMovie projects. Apple's release of iMovie HD 6 as a free download for customers of iLife '08 has been seen by many in the discussions as an attempt to placate early adopters who were disappointed by either the feature set or the lack of continuity from earlier versions.

For some, the shift in focus from preparing complex movie projects to simpler titles for YouTube and other websites was enough to suggest that just naming the program iMovie was an error, and that it should have been released as a companion product rather than a direct replacement. "It should have been named iTube or iVideo," one user reported, making allusions to its YouTube upload feature.

The reaction may spell trouble ahead for Apple and its hopes for the editing suite in the short term. The Mac maker declared at its August special event that iMovie '08 was a completely new program inspired by one of its own staffers. The employee had been frustrated by the difficulty in quickly editing footage he had captured during a diving vacation and created a prototype editor himself. This became the foundation for the final program, Apple said, as it potentially signaled a far easier way to assemble final videos than the conventional timeline.

But for those buyers with more advanced needs or who have simply become familiar with the basic concepts behind earlier versions, the new iMovie has so far been interpreted as an experiment that didn't justify the $79 price for an existing user.

"After discovering this was a stripped down version, I fortunately found my other version of iMovie HD and dragged the icon into tool bar," said one complaint. "I feel ripped off and as a recent Apple from PC convert, I'm still not totally sold on Apple products. I'm hoping they'll take this software back and [I] can uninstall the entire iLife '08 software."

My complaint is Steve gets up and hails iMovie with the Panasonic camera as great and going to change everything. Then when I order my Panasonic HDC-SD1 and import footage into iMovie '08, I have one channel audio. Did the Steve not have this problem with his camera? Funny how everyone who went and bought this great camera, and it is sharp!, is having the same problem with iMovie or FCP 6 with basically 1 channel audio.

Now, I am stuck with one channel audio in iMovie '08 and FCP 6.0.1. Apple has something screwed up in all their video software right now.

I like iMovie '08 better because I can churn out a movie in minutes. When I do serious Movie stuff, I have FCP 6.

If they wanted to revolutionize the home video editing sector - they should have integrated H.264 hardware encoding into the new iMac and in time across the line; thereby significantly reducing the the time it takes to encode a movie.

what's the big deal? apple still lets you download imovie 06 if you don't like 08.

the fact is, imovie may be too hard for some people. now it is unfortunate that imovie had to lose features, but don't you think that with a few tweaks and additions that imovie 08 could have potential to be a better program than 06?

if you're buying ilife 08, use the old version of imovie, and use the rest of the great apps.

meanwhile, apple has already gotten the complaints, and they do listen. that's why they let ilife 08 users download the old version of imovie.

First up, it's not $79 for the iMovie '08 upgrade alone... there are other apps in there. Secondly, iMovie '08 does not overwrite iMovie '06 if you already have it installed.

Anytime you make such a drastic change to an app that many people use, you're bound to rock the boat. Just look at Windows Vista to see how backwards-compatibility can curtail innovation.

As a Final Cut Express owner, I welcome the changes to iMovie '08. It's perfect for comping together short, quick videos *something that iMovie was weak at. iMovie was great if you wanted to author a dvd or make a short movie, but treaded that ground dangerously: you had to be just the right customer who could use the features and workflow, but not become too frustrated with its limitations. Just about every time I worked on an iMovie project previously, I'd run against one or two limitations that really hindered me (hence moving to Final Cut Express).

With iMovie '08 just sitting down for 15mins is enough time to put together something reasonable and it certainly makes "working with movies as easy as working with photos".

I think that iMovie HD merging into a sort of FCE solution might placate users. Although, equally, adding features to iMovie '08 (such as chapter markers, etc.) in some x.1 updates would be another solution.

They took so long to update iLife that half of it doesn't work on my computer. I have the last G4 PowerBook before they went to WinTel, I mean Intel and half of iLife doesn't work. iMovie and Garage Band won't load and iDVD now crashes when trying to launch. This is a sad attempt by Apple to force it's customers to update to a wintel Mac.

what's the big deal? apple still lets you download imovie 06 if you don't like 08.

the fact is, imovie may be too hard for some people. now it is unfortunate that imovie had to lose features, but don't you think that with a few tweaks and additions that imovie 08 could have potential to be a better program than 06?

if you're buying ilife 08, use the old version of imovie, and use the rest of the great apps.

meanwhile, apple has already gotten the complaints, and they do listen. that's why they let ilife 08 users download the old version of imovie.

I agree. Obviously, all the first complaints about the software are going to come from the people who already were using '06 and switched right away- and obviously a ground-up redo is not good news for those people. Give it time, however, and I think iMovie could easily be a hit with first-time movie makers. I agree with the assessment in Steve's little story about how hard it is to slap together a decent movie in a short time- and the new "scrub" selection tool is an awesome way to fix that. The old iMovie was not something that a complete novice could just jump right into and make a good first movie in an hour or so. The new iMovie can do this. 'nuff said.

I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.

I found it interesting that Job kind side stepped the whole it does not have the same features as the old Imovie issue. He did the "it is different enough so we gave it a new logo things." but never mentioned anything about the whole class of products which it would not work on. I was kind of surprised to see the warning come up that iMovie would not load on my old imac.

Besides this, they made some fundamental changes to the other programs as well, they changed how things are done. It took me a while to figure out how to doing something that use to be easy. Such as export photo from iPhoto, you use to easily export and scale an image proportionately, now you have to scale height and width separately and it take a few extra steps and it is not obvious at first.

This is the first time that I have heard that iMovie 08 is based on inspiration from a 'staffer's vacation'. I think that's funny - as I look at how __I__ like to take videos. I take 5 minutes here and there, maybe 20 or so on a vacation. SO... I miss the chapter marker thing greatly. I just want to create markers for "summer vacation 08', 'trip to grandparents', 'fall break', "Christmas", etc and then burn a DVD.

I rushed out to get iLife08 (and also iWork08) just to compile a video that I made for our church. I spent a long time in iMovie 08 looking for the chapter markers, etc. That's when I posted a message elsewhere in this forum and learned that 08 had been crippled. After going back to '06, it took me maybe 15 minutes to create my chapters and start a DVD burning.

With that said, I am not going to think about returning '08 - I just want the fire lit under Apple to make burning DVDs EASY.

BTW - do chapter markers work with AppleTV ?? I would love to import my older iMovie-created DVDs into iTunes/AppleTV - SEEMLESSLY.

One last thing - I like the '08 scrub/select thing - that is truely useful. But I would like to select a clip view like in 06. It's hard to see the big picture when you have 20 minutes of scrubbable "stuff" and have to scroll down to see the next clip.

I'm not surprised that a totally new version of the app has fewer features than a version that has gone through several updates. Apple will grow the app and there will probably be 3rd party programmers that come up with features, primarily as shareware so you can use it on a Try & Buy basis.

Mac user since 1984: when I tried iMovie '08 I found it much faster than any previous version. The workflow and integration are better and this is the first version of iMovie I could imagine my mom using. The old version required some commitment to master and programs that come with a Mac shouldn't be like that. Having a user library like iPhoto and seeing still-camera video in the iPhoto library are obvious improvements in overall iLife integration and definitely worth the trade-off of lost features for what most people want to do.

Missing features will come back in future versions, but perhaps not the way people think. iDVD will probably get remade too and maybe chapter markers belong there, or maybe iDVD shouldn't even be a separate program. People should be patient, and in the meantime releasing iMovie HD 6 for free was a smart move. Remember how long it took for Mac OS X to evolve to do everything Mac OS 9 did.

iMovie 08 is a course correction for a product that was going the wrong direction. I loved every new feature they packed into iMovie... but noticed over the years my home video production was slowly dwindling down to nothing.

When I upgraded to camera to HD, everything more or less came to a complete stand-still. I was constantly switching between FCP and iMovie 06. That's mostly because iMovie was trying to become a full fledged video editing suite - no longer the orignial "video editing for everyone" product that they originally brought to market.

iMovie 08 has finally delivered on the Mac promise. Working with AVCHD is lightning fast and beautiful. My parents, in-laws and siblings no longer call me with irritating iMovie 06 questions. This app just works and works beautifully.

Apple has cleverly omitted adding features that knock the real-time fun out of editing. This was the brutal, yet absolutely necessary pruning of all those silly iMovie effects. I will miss a few of them, but for the most part I'm OK.

Media management was always the missing piece of the puzzle. For anyone that is into Final Cut Pro, you know that this is not a task that your mom is up to on her own. iMovie 08 makes it so painless to capture, organize and manage media across multiple volumes in a truly break-through fashion. Try helping your mom figure this out in iMovie 06!

So, all in all. I'm going to be suffering without the ability to do some things like changing the duration of clips (slowing down and speeding up) and visual envelope settings for sound files, but for the most part - I'm grateful to have produced my first two home movies in about a year.

Gimme something that works without hassles and I'll bet it's an apple product; iMovie 08 included.

I've used iMovie since the beginning and by the time 06 came along, it has swelled up to bloatware. The Video FX were a waste of time at best and like a loaded gun in the hands of a child at worst. I saw my neighbor's video where they went medieval with the video FX and I nearly puked.

Aren't chapter markers available in iDVD? I always thought the feature was redundant in iMovie 06.

Don't get me wrong -- I'm keeping 06 around just in case I want to access one of the bloat features, but it looks like 08 is going to work for 90+% of what I want to do with videos.

It is a bit of cold water in the face to think that my powerhouse computer (Dual 2GHz G5 PowerMac) is now the wimpiest computer that can run this program. As sad as it is that my computer is becoming obsolete, at least I am comfortable that my parachute pants remain as cool as ever ;-)

The iMovie '08 interface should have been a quick mode built on top of iMovie.

Agreed!

I can certainly understand the need for a "simple" video editor/compiler. However, why remove basic functionality such as chapters, a timeline and easy burn to DVD etc? There are many video editing programs in the Windows world that provide a "simple" mode overlay to a more robust application.

Obviously AAPL recognizes it has some serious customer satisfaction issues with IMovie 08 thus, the "free" availability of iMovie06 HD.

I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.

And it would be laughed out of court. Apple is under absolutely no obligation to stick to the iMovie HD code base. They can release and discontinue products as they please, unless they're under contract to do otherwise. People really do throw around the word "lawsuit" way too much these days.

I do think Apple would be wise to lower the price of Final Cut Express though, for those iMovie HD users who are seeking some sort of upgrade path.

Interesting. Over half of the responders don't seem to see things as dark as this story wants to impart. As many seem to reflect, sometimes it just takes stepping back and smelling the roses before you add the manure.

Good calls guys.

Update: I see a number of new posts are equally positive and/or constructive. Lets keep them coming.

Magic_al (#17): People should be patient, and in the meantime releasing iMovie HD 6 for free …

waytogobuddy (#16): you get iMovie 06 For Free. Now I know summer is almost over, but I think some people still need to head on over to camp qwitchyerbitchin pronto!

kenaustus (#15): I'm not surprised that a totally new version of the app has fewer features than a version that has gone through several updates. Apple will grow the app and there will probably be 3rd party programmers that come up with features, primarily as shareware so you can use it on a Try & Buy basis.

meelash (10):Obviously, all the first complaints about the software are going to come from the people who already were using '06 and switched right away- and obviously a ground-up redo is not good news for those people. Give it time, however, and I think iMovie could easily be a hit with first-time movie makers. I agree with the assessment in Steve's little story about how hard it is to slap together a decent movie in a short time- and the new "scrub" selection tool is an awesome way to fix that. The old iMovie was not something that a complete novice could just jump right into and make a good first movie in an hour or so. The new iMovie can do this. 'nuff said. Rember, people: this is a CONSUMER software suite.

rdas7 (8): …With iMovie '08 just sitting down for 15mins is enough time to put together something reasonable and it certainly makes "working with movies as easy as working with photos".… and everything before and after.

akhomerun (7): what's the big deal? apple still lets you download imovie 06 if you don't like 08. …if you're buying ilife 08, use the old version of imovie, and use the rest of the great apps.and everything inbetween and after.

aplnub (4): I like iMovie '08 better because I can churn out a movie in minutes. When I do serious Movie stuff, I have FCP 6.

jamaku(#3): imovie08 is great, idont think i will go back to version 06; though some more video effects are welcome !!!

I am glad '06 is still on here. I was able to throw together a project in almost no time, but I really miss the ability to control volume, put in effects, etc.

I have to think there is either an update coming in the future or Apple is going to push those of us who want more features into Final Cut.

This is a perfect example of someone who hasn't used iMovie '08 yet, but thinks that he or she actually knows the problems with the product just because they've read other people's opinions. If you had used imovie '08 you would know that you can control the volume, you can even normalize the volume with one click, in order to block your own track or lower an audio track added in production, this can now be done in one step instead of the manual process that one had to use in iMovie HD, though if you rather adjust the volume manually you can do so as one did in iMovie HD. Next time you decide to comment on the product try using it first.

That being said, the new iMovie doesn't have problems as much as it has missing features. While Chapter markers can be made in the new iDvD it seems silly that one cannot make them iMovie when one could earlier. Also there is a lack of transitions, as well as an inability to add fade outs to audio tracks. The last feature that bothers me the most is the fact that when you export to the Large format as prescribed in the help file of iDvD, for importing an iMovie '08 DV file, your actually going from an uncompressed .DV file to a compressed Mpeg4 back to a lesser compressed Mpeg2 file, which is pointless and could possibly (though unlikely) effect video quality. This is a problem that Apple got rid of in iMovie 2. Back then in order to use iDvd you had to export to Mpeg4 and then re-import to Mpeg2, which was pointless and a waste of over-compression, now once again apple has reverted to this waste of time, and I don't know why.

The old iMovie was not something that a complete novice could just jump right into and make a good first movie in an hour or so. [...]

Rember, people: this is a CONSUMER software suite.

psshhhh, don't give me that s**t. The original iMovie (as well as its successors) had the capability of being simple, yet also had simple-complex functions, like the visual audio packets (via version 5, I think), which, I remind you, was a click-on option... not a standard feature.

Aside from that, not all consumers are complete idiots. They use a software for simple features at first, then their knowledge and capabilities grow. They then require more features. The advanced features of iMovie '06 are by no means beyond the capabilities of a well-practiced consumer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John the Geek

I still believe that it's being simplified to be a iApp on purpose. Making more room for Final Cut Express.

Garageband is more about Podcasting now than audio. That's why they want you to buy Logic Express for audio creation, and Pro for the professionals.

Yes, it's sad about Garage Band being demoted as well, but think you're making a good point about the "express" line-up...

Quote:

Originally Posted by trillionandone

Movie 08 has finally delivered on the Mac promise. Working with AVCHD is lightning fast and beautiful. My parents, in-laws and siblings no longer call me with irritating iMovie 06 questions. This app just works and works beautifully.

[...]

Gimme something that works without hassles and I'll bet it's an apple product; iMovie 08 included.

And this concludes why it's an "i"Product. "i" is for idiot. iMac, iPod, iLife, iTunes... so easy, an idiot could do it. How else will Apple lure a bunch of idiot PC-blockheads over to the Mac*?

I do, however, think that Apple will start to win back their faithfuls (the prosumers & hobbyists) by (eventually) releasing a mid-range tower and (eventually) releasing a media-editing suite for us: FC Express, Logic Express, "Apeture Express", "DVD Studio Express." That would be the best-case scenario, of course, and obviously wouldn't ship with any Mac. Ergo, I'm going to have to pay extra for what I didn't have to pay for before.

I think that's why a lot of folks here are upset.

Out of curiosity, are we mostly prosumers/pros here? Do you think Apple might put out a mid-range suite? I find it awfully fishy that Apple has basically abandoned the prosumer for so long...

I really don't understand the complaints. The old iMovie, whilst could string a few clips together to make a movie quickly, couldn't do anything like the new iMovie can in the same time frame. I admit, I would like the ability to fade out music as a movie fads out, but this is iMovie v1.0 all over again. It will mature, and become a really good product.

I personally never bothered with the old iMovie except for a couple of Christmas movies because it took so long. I can seem myself using the new iMovie quite a lot.

And it would be laughed out of court. Apple is under absolutely no obligation to stick to the iMovie HD code base. They can release and discontinue products as they please, unless they're under contract to do otherwise. People really do throw around the word "lawsuit" way too much these days.

I do think Apple would be wise to lower the price of Final Cut Express though, for those iMovie HD users who are seeking some sort of upgrade path.

Agree. Why do people feel the need to sue whenever a product doesn't suit their needs or desires? Did Apple hold a gun to peoples heads and force them to upgrade?

Oh and BTW, isn't iMovie 06 a FREE download to those who prefer it to the new version?

The iMovie '08 interface should have been a quick mode built on top of iMovie.

Bingo. That would be perfect. The best of both worlds.

But you must also know the Apple hates compromise. Just like the belief long ago that if the Mac were to survive, the Apple II would have to die. Then it became obvious that the Macintosh was a better platform and the Apple II died on its own. Likewise, we'll see which is the better platform, and the other will die... or sell for less

A lawsuit for what? The last time I checked it wasn't against the law to update, rewrite or even discontinue your own software product. This is the same Apple that discontinued the iPod Mini after one year and people practically hung themselves over it.

As with any 1.0 product there's going to be bugs and missing features and they will eventually get ironed out. Apple's not breaking anyone's arm to use the new iMovie.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maestro64

I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.

This is what happens when Apple's marketshare starts to rise. They start becoming arrogant again and think that Mac users will automatically accept whatever they push out the door. People accuse Microsoft of "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" but it appears that Apple is now doing the same thing. This is why we need strong competition to keep Apple's arrogance in check.

This is what happens when Apple's marketshare starts to rise. They start becoming arrogant again and think that Mac users will automatically accept whatever they push out the door. People accuse Microsoft of "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" but it appears that Apple is now doing the same thing. This is why we need strong competition to keep Apple's arrogance in check.

Which is why companies fail. Apple is leading edge, but the customers are the ones who dictate direction.

...hop over to http://11mystics.com and take a look at the approach Suzanne took when the new iWeb COMPLETELY broke all templates she's slaved over in iWeb 6.
Gripe and whine?... no.
Threaten a lawsuite?... no.

She sat down for 3 days, came up with a brilliant (and possibly better) solution, dug up resources to help her automate, and voila! She ends up looking like the competent, hard-working artist that she is.

But, gee. That would be too much for Jolt addled geeks who want it all handed to then.

Whine whine whine! Boo hoo, so the Mac community is a bunch of whiners, why don't you complain a little more?!

Okay, honestly? Why would anyone be happy about paying for an upgrade to a product that does less than its predecessor? I know AI forum members are over-complaining weiners, but this time I think they're onto something... except for that lawsuit guy. Get a grip, yo.

...hop over to http://11mystics.com and take a look at the approach Suzanne took when the new iWeb COMPLETELY broke all templates she's slaved over in iWeb 6.
Gripe and whine?... no.
Threaten a lawsuite?... no.

She sat down for 3 days, came up with a brilliant (and possibly better) solution, dug up resources to help her automate, and voila! She ends up looking like the competent, hard-working artist that she is.

But, gee. That would be too much for Jolt addled geeks who want it all handed to then.

jeez... I am SOOOO sick of the whineyness of the Mac community.

A brilliant example of proactive vs reactive behaviour She truly is a creative entrepreneur!

About the link: is that her customised Blog iweb page?
About iPhoto 08: love it! I never touched iPhoto 06 but now I am tempted to get myself into moving image! Yes, I am an idiot

Why would anyone be happy about paying for an upgrade to a product that does less than its predecessor?

-Clive

Um, perhaps if they used the intelligence god gave a rock, they'd
1) take a quick look at the features before laying down the $79.
2) decide if the overall feature set (for all products in the suite, not just iMovie) was worth it.

But that wouldn't be the 'Mac experience', would it? It would involve a touch of personal responsibility.

I would have to agree they really screwed up this time, I smell a lawsuit coming Apple's way.

I think there is going to be lots of back lash from this release.

Backlash quelled by iMovie 06 download. Lawsuit doesn't stand a chance. What would the charges be "failing to evolve product to the likes of every consumer" ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by John the Geek

I still believe that it's being simplified to be a iApp on purpose. Making more room for Final Cut Express.

Garageband is more about Podcasting now than audio. That's why they want you to buy Logic Express for audio creation, and Pro for the professionals.

Yes..while there are a bunch of people that want to use iMovie in lieu of FCE the fact is if the rank and file consumer doesn't feel comfotable editing rather quickly you don't have a consumer app. I say let the folks who "should" be on Final Cut Express complain and woo the people that you need to. The ones that need to figure this stuff out quickly. iMovie 08 looks like a step in that direction.

He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.- SolipsismX

Whine whine whine! Boo hoo, so the Mac community is a bunch of whiners, why don't you complain a little more?!

Okay, honestly? Why would anyone be happy about paying for an upgrade to a product that does less than its predecessor? I know AI forum members are over-complaining weiners, but this time I think they're onto something... except for that lawsuit guy. Get a grip, yo.

-Clive

Clive, get A Live!

and get yourself to the next stage by ordering Final Cut Express at the online Apple store. Today!