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Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Not bringing up a new topic here as I know this has been discussed ad nauseam; but rather I'd like to get a semi-official poll of those experiencing this problem so I can represent this to Audi corporate. Some of you may have seen my regional thread about the issues in resolving this with my local dealer, and after a conversation with Audi corporate (customer service) it seems like they aren't aware of this being a true "problem" - since they seemingly have no record of complaints. The challenge too that I'm facing is that the Audi "tech line" has no actionable solution to the starter issues; i.e. if no fault is shown, starter is deemed fine. Audi Service - officially it seems - will not "proactively" check to see if the starter is needing replacement, even if the car has problems starting.

To sum up fairly quickly what I'm being put through, have a CPO car that has problems starting. First visit to dealer, was told to "press the clutch pedal down firmly when starting" (thanks, somehow I appeared to be doing this fine during the first 8 months of car ownership). Second visit to dealer (which required a tow), clutch switch was fixed. Third visit to dealer is today; another required tow.

Moreso than venting my frustration, I'd like to help future owners by not having to go through this. It's been a huge waste of time for me and my wife (the primary driver of the car). Any other advice is welcome at this point; several others in the NorCal section have assisted greatly already (thanks, Dan).

P.S. I'm no mechanic; it's of course possible that the starter isn't at fault here, but according to the dealership, everything else (i.e. battery, spark plugs) checks out OK.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Hey Kevin, have they even tested the starter? There's a DIY for testing it.

Even if they won't replace it (yet), they should be able to do a test to hopefully confirm what it is you're dealing with (as are a lot of other B6'ers).

Let me know what I can do to help.

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

For all you willing to wait it out while AOA sits on their hands, more power to you.

However, if you want to get your starter now and either DIY or go to your indy for the job, get the part at partsgeek. That's where I got mine. Best price out there for a new starter. GenuineAudiParts isn't a bad way to go either.

There is a couple DIY's out there if you're ballsy! One requires you undo a motormount, the other does not. Neither is easy, as my friend LittleRed said.

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

I wonder if anyone has knowledge if all these starters are subject to failure, or if its a specific part number/lot that is more prone to have issues. Meaning, if you have it replaced with an OEM part, will it likely give out again after a couple of years?

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Regular deal with my car since last winter. Really bad when it is cold. The other day it just refused to start period. Came back after it had warmed up and it cranked immediately. Really need to decide if I'm keeping this car. Problem started for me around the 40k mark. Time to call Induktion.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Good call Ill.

If you HAVE NOT replaced your starter yet, when you do, please check the part # so we can possibly verify this.

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Just spoke to my independent shop and he thinks that if the car eventually cranks, it shouldn't be an issue with the starter. Would hate to have them swap out the various switches only to come back to the starter. Since I'm planning on ditching this car by Feb, hard to part with a lot of coin on a repair like this. That Audi is claiming they haven't seen this issue pop up is a joke. Should just drive over to their HQ and let them see it in person.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

It is actually the solenoid that goes bad. My indy guys said it gets worse in cold weather. This made sense, where as my car would eventually start, then would be fine the rest of the day as it was good and warmed up after the initial start....just what I was told.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

^ It's the same tale most are hearing. I'd like to put a lot of faith into that tale, as I haven't heard of many (any?) people say they've still had the same problem AFTER they've replaced the starter.

The same can't be said for the batter and clutch switch folks.

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Starter on partsgeek is about $200. If you get an indy to put it in, you're looking at a two-hour install - another $200 potentially. So, close to the same. Some indys may be cheaper - say $60/hr range. That'd save you some cash.

If you DIY, you save even more!

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

You guys may have saved me about $200. My plan of attack is to bring the car in tomorrow to Sears or somewhere similar and have them check the battery to rule that out. Assuming the battery is within spec, next step would be to replace the starter. I'm checking the batter primarily because this problems seems to be exacerbated by cold weather. It's taking me north of 5 minutes the last couple of days to get the car going.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

for the question regarding part numbers for failed starters, I have been assuming that the failed solenoid issue was due to the high heat our engines produce, not really a problem with the starter specifically, more of a design flaw by not heat insulating the starter/solenoid well enough

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

^ That is correct. My understanding is that the heat is the major cause of the solenoid failure...technically, you could JUST replace the solenoid. Good luck with that, though. Better to replace the entire thing.

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

advanced auto parts just tested my system & the starter & alternator look good. Battery is throwing off a couple of low numbers so I'm going to try that first. I'm in a Dec '04 build B6 so hopefully this is an easy one for me, but I've got a feeling I might be dropping $180 unnecessarily...

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Ok, I'm going to chime in on this issue again...and probably muddy the waters a bit.
I have this issue and it pisses me off every morning.

I'm not convinced that this issue is rooted in either the battery, starter or solenoid (I do agree that the issue is worse in the cold, but not gone completely in warm weather).

A couple months ago, I had a catastrophic clutch failure and had the clutch, flywheel, TO bearing, slave cylinder and a bunch of other things replaced. When I got my car back, this starting issue was completely gone for about 2 weeks. Car started immediately every time no matter how long it sat. This evidence/symptom #1.

My work-around fix to get the car to start on the second attempt (almost never starts on the 1st attempt), is to push the clutch pedal down extremely slowly and with pressure to the left. This is evidence/symptom #2.

The issue only pops up if the car has sat for more than 5/6 hours...when it's cold. If this was an excessive heat related problem, why does it not happen when the car is warmed up? Evidence/symptom #3.

I think this is an issue with the pedal or the clutch switch or something related...not sure what, but, based on my experience (described above) I don't see how it could be the battery, starter, or solenoid.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

^ Do you want my honest opinion? I think all that other nonsense is in your head. Truthfully, I thought the same thing..."if I just hold it this way, twist it that way, push the clutch in slow, blah blah blah." No offense, but it's only $200 to make your life a little bit easier.

My real answer, everyone knows how much heat these engines put out. When at operating temperatures, balls out driving, stop and go traffic, etc. - the heat being released under the hood is putting a lot of stress on the components - including the starter/solenoid. All that adding up over the years, and it's finally failed (close to failing).

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Originally Posted by SoCalS4Avant

^ Do you want my honest opinion? I think all that other nonsense is in your head. Truthfully, I thought the same thing..."if I just hold it this way, twist it that way, push the clutch in slow, blah blah blah." No offense, but it's only $200 to make your life a little bit easier.

My real answer, everyone knows how much heat these engines put out. When at operating temperatures, balls out driving, stop and go traffic, etc. - the heat being released under the hood is putting a lot of stress on the components - including the starter/solenoid. All that adding up over the years, and it's finally failed (close to failing).

I hear what you're saying...and I don't discount that it is possible.

But explain why after I got my clutch & flywheel (etc. ...to the tune of $4300) replaced, the car started perfectly for about two weeks.

Clutch in, turn key, fired right up. I was psyched...figured I killed 2 birds w/one stone. Not so much...as it progressively went back to where it was before: clutch in, turn key, lights on dash come on, no start. Pull key out, wait a few seconds, push clutch in really slow and push clutch pedal to the left, turn key, hold it for about 5-10 seconds, car starts.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Car started up relatively fast this am, but there was still a slight delay between turning the key and the car firing. I'll probably just eat the batter cost, but I suspect replacing my starter will be my next move. That Audi is claiming they haven't heard of this problem is really ridiculous.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

For you mechanic types, installing a new batter seems to have helped, but there's definitely still a delay between turning the key and the car starting. Wouldn't the fact that the battery seems to have helped ruled out a switch being the cause of the problem? I don't know squat about how this stuff works, but would imagine that if a switch is bad (clutch or ignition), battery power should have much impact - if any - on that part working. Indie shop originally told me clutch switch and ignition, but assuming the improvement gained from the new battery doesn't help, starter would probably be my next route.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Originally Posted by Brooklyn

For you mechanic types, installing a new batter seems to have helped, but there's definitely still a delay between turning the key and the car starting. Wouldn't the fact that the battery seems to have helped ruled out a switch being the cause of the problem? I don't know squat about how this stuff works, but would imagine that if a switch is bad (clutch or ignition), battery power should have much impact - if any - on that part working. Indie shop originally told me clutch switch and ignition, but assuming the improvement gained from the new battery doesn't help, starter would probably be my next route.

When some of the original B6's started to have problems with this, they usually went the following route: battery > clutch switch > starter. Most found that while replacing the battery and clutch switch may temporarily relieve symptoms, most of the time, they came back, and weren't ultimately solved until the starter was replaced.

It's not bad to rule out the first two, but it may save headache of having to deal with the issue over and over to just go to the starter in the first place.

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Mine has done this not starting thing for a few months now. I replaced the battery and it seemed to help for like a week. I've found that I actually have to jump the battery and it fires every time, but my battery is not dead!!! I don't get it!

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

Sorry to somewhat bring this thread back, but I feel like these types of issues always start when the cold weather ensues. My car had been acting up for about a month now, finally yesterday it finally decided to take a dump and not start at all.

So, we did a nice little bump start, got it over to the shop and attempted to start it immediately after shutdown...Nothing... So I'll be installing the starter today, and see what the conclusion comes out to.

Re: Starter Issues; B6 S4 - Attempting Official Resolution

^ thanks for the info. Let us know how things go after the starter has been installed. Just as a point of info, while the cold exacerbated the issue, as time went on it didn't always have to be cold for me to experience issues starting. Good luck!

Moderator/Wiseguy

yeah, I'm pretty sure this needs to happen too...so I can live Vicariously through myself. - cab509
People are stupid. It's a fact. It's science. - tankdeer
Better be careful. That's the kind of car that can get people pregnant. -Jermunji
Nothing makes me happier than the fact that your motive is based on spite, revenge, and regret. Well done sir. A tip of the hat to you. - tankdeer