What Harbaugh and the Niners are is arrogant, but the problem is, arrogance doesn't cost you games, unless you over-look someone, and they don't generally seem unprepared to me.

Jim Harbaugh is a c*nt.

And I wish he was our coach

I thought the niners were a bit better than us in pretty much every aspect of the game. And when you add that up, they were a lot better than us overall. And they just executed better. They had fewer drops, missed tackles etc ... they gained yards after the first hit, we rarely did.

I'm not too disappointed. I think the niners are likely the best team in the NFL. I think we have a shot of making the playoffs and, if it clicks at the right time, making a run.

But there was little doubt in my mind the niners were the better team before this game, and no doubt afterwards. I'm not going to cry that we're not the best in the NFL, I just hope the coaches and players move on from this loss, get into the next game a deliver a W.

I agree completely.

Bill Billicheck is a complete bunghole, but I sure wish he was our bunghole... He's cocky, arrogant, rude, etc., but he's great at what he does.

I don't see Scwartz the same way. He seems like he was always the kid with sunglasses and the "cool" hair cut being a bully with his mouth and chippy with people he could be chippy toward. I'd take Jeff Fisher in a minute over Schwartz after watching that St. Louis game. Schwartz fails to make adjustments, I don't see a creative bone in his scheme, and I've never, never seen him "out coach" another team. I'm thankful for what he's done here. He has taken us from a horrible team with little hope to being respectable and better than average, but I really don't think he's capable of taking us to the next level. I'm sorry that's so hard for so many on here to read... It's just my opinion.

a long tima ago the same thig could have been said about Cowher (sp?) it took teh steelers a while to win the show, but they built a foundation so strong that it outlasteed him out there. and they made mistakes to....Lots of QB failures, a few gambles taht did or didn't pay off. Patience man, they dont HAVE to win it all today, they just have to keep getting better.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

September 17th, 2012, 5:45 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

Shotty wrote:

Why get a top RB while the offensive line is consisted of players who can't run block? We're clearly in the process of a O-line overhaul with Jason Fox and Riley Reiff both being candidates to become starters, and both can run and pass block well. This offseason, when I'm sure at least 3 overpaid players will be cut, I'm confident in Mayhew dropping and finding replacements for Backus and Raiola, since they're both ridiculously overpaid and I'm sure there are MUCH better options for much less $$$. As many know, all of these overpaid vets are here for their leadership mainly. Once that's not needed anymore Mayhew will be confident in letting them go.

All I'm saying: Brighten up. We have MANY options for the upcoming offseason to drop some of our terrible run-blocking offensive linemen and pick up better ones who are FAs, and we're giving Ryan Grant some second looks ( http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... yan-grant/ )

Give Mayhew some time. These problems will all be solved soon, likely before next season. Right now, though, we're looking at a team who just went on the road against the best defense in the NFL, and were within 8 points in a game full of stupid calls, a missed field goal, and without 3 of our 4 starting DBs. Lighten up about it all.

Well... What you're advocating is the possibility that we will have a new RT, LT, and possibly OG or OC, or both next year or within two years. That's nearly the entire OL, which is why I'm pissed that we didn't draft DeCastro, a guy that we could have plugged in at RG as soon as he was drafted. Instead we drafted Reiff who maybe, might play RT this year, and maybe might play LT next year, or maybe might play RG for us at some point. He may be great, or he may be a total bust, but IMO the problem is... He's not playing...

For an OL to get good they have to "gel." They have to learn the play of the guy next to him and work with them. If we replace more than two guys it will be a complete disaster. Secondly, continuity is HUGE, and relying on a guy like Fox and possibly relying on a guy like Nagy, IMO isn't all that smart. IF we do rely on Fox to take over at RT while Reiff is playing LT I would want to keep Gos around. But this is why I say the entire deal is all effed up... Sliding a guy over from OG to OC really isn't that big of a deal. Moving a guy from the R side to the L side can be. Adding new bodies generally is... It's just a complete cluster phuck up there. We have Dom who is old and undersized, we have Peterman who is weak, Sims who is good but aging, Backus who is playing beyond retirement, and Reiff who isn't playing at all... Where's the bright spot there?

And who's saying top RB? I was advocating getting a mid-level FA to shore up an RB corps that has been inconsistent and decimated by injury. Michael Bush is far from a "top RB," but at least he is NFL caliber. Kevin Smith is not... He does alright, but like all of our RBs not named Bell, he can't stay heathy... And no one else wanted him... Every team in the league had a shot on more than one occasion...

September 17th, 2012, 5:47 pm

devildog

Junior Varsity

Joined: November 26th, 2005, 11:47 amPosts: 188Location: New Albany, IN

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

wjb21ndtown wrote:

UK Lion wrote:

wjb21ndtown wrote:

What Harbaugh and the Niners are is arrogant, but the problem is, arrogance doesn't cost you games, unless you over-look someone, and they don't generally seem unprepared to me.

Jim Harbaugh is a c*nt.

And I wish he was our coach

I thought the niners were a bit better than us in pretty much every aspect of the game. And when you add that up, they were a lot better than us overall. And they just executed better. They had fewer drops, missed tackles etc ... they gained yards after the first hit, we rarely did.

I'm not too disappointed. I think the niners are likely the best team in the NFL. I think we have a shot of making the playoffs and, if it clicks at the right time, making a run.

But there was little doubt in my mind the niners were the better team before this game, and no doubt afterwards. I'm not going to cry that we're not the best in the NFL, I just hope the coaches and players move on from this loss, get into the next game a deliver a W.

I agree completely.

Bill Billicheck is a complete bunghole, but I sure wish he was our bunghole... He's cocky, arrogant, rude, etc., but he's great at what he does.

I don't see Scwartz the same way. He seems like he was always the kid with sunglasses and the "cool" hair cut being a bully with his mouth and chippy with people he could be chippy toward. I'd take Jeff Fisher in a minute over Schwartz after watching that St. Louis game. Schwartz fails to make adjustments, I don't see a creative bone in his scheme, and I've never, never seen him "out coach" another team. I'm thankful for what he's done here. He has taken us from a horrible team with little hope to being respectable and better than average, but I really don't think he's capable of taking us to the next level. I'm sorry that's so hard for so many on here to read... It's just my opinion.

Not hard for me to read, I am not just quite there yet. I get your point, so I am not attempting to argue, but it's not like we have had a parade of Hall of Fame coaches come through Detroit to compare. I mean, Wayne Fontes? Even that's not a fair example as he leads the franchise in wins, but he also leads the team in losses. Potsy Clark has the best winning percentage, but he died in 1972. Since 1970, only two coaches achieved an above 500 winning percentage, Joe Schmidt (84 games coached) and Gary Moeller (7 games coached). I don't think Schwartz is going anywhere.

_________________I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man that rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide, then question the manner in which I provide it.

September 17th, 2012, 6:13 pm

Pablo

RIP Killer

Joined: August 6th, 2004, 9:21 amPosts: 10069Location: Dallas

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

Belichick? Would you guys have been saying the same thing in Cleveland when he went 36–44 and made the playoffs one time?

WJB - would you have supported him after his 5-11 finish in his last year there or would you be saying he got us to the playoff but regressed and didn't have what it took to take the team to the next level?

Would his progression been fast enough for you?

YR 1: 6-10YR 2: 7-9YR 3: 7-9 YR 4: 11-5YR 5: 5-11

He also started with the Pats at 5-11 before naming some kid from Michigan as the starting QB after a 0-2 start by Bledsoe the following year (and all of a sudden he became "great at what he does").

Honestly I think coaching is overrated. Very, very few of theme achieve success with multiple different franchises.

Would Belichick be considered so highly if he didn't have Brady? Would Walsh if he didn't have Montana?

If Mike Ditka was such a great coach, for example, why did he do so poorly with the Saints?

Perhaps Martz was considered an offensive genius because he had Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, rather than some amazing scheme.

September 17th, 2012, 6:39 pm

modninerfan

Pop Warner Rookie

Joined: October 12th, 2011, 6:52 pmPosts: 104Location: Modesto, CA

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

Blueskies wrote:

Honestly I think coaching is overrated. Very, very few of theme achieve success with multiple different franchises.

Would Belichick be considered so highly if he didn't have Brady? Would Walsh if he didn't have Montana?

If Mike Ditka was such a great coach, for example, why did he do so poorly with the Saints?

Perhaps Martz was considered an offensive genius because he had Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, rather than some amazing scheme.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that... Singletary was straight up retarded. Dude was not an x's and o's type coach. Harbaugh comes in with exactly the same personnel and we start dominating.

_________________“Jim's a dynamic man with incredible determination, willpower and energy. He's the ultimate in a driven person who has high expectations. The people around him respond. He's on the cutting edge with an outstanding football mind.” - Bill Walsh

September 17th, 2012, 6:44 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5097Location: WSU

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

Quote:

Levy also did a fair amount of impersonating a windmill on a good amount of missed-tackles. Levy did diagnose some plays well (the two tackles for loss on Gore come to mind), but I really have to wonder if he was "gambling" (which involves absolutely no talent) or if he really "read" the play that way.

i think it was more a case of "fool me once joke is on me, fool me twice - joke is on you." in the first half they came right at levy with a lead blocker and gore behind him - it sure looked like levy could ve easily just went after gore instead levy took on the lead blocker and it allowed gore to score. in the 2nd half levy stuffed the same play twice, running past the lead blocker and stuffing the runner. they ran the same play at him too many times

September 17th, 2012, 6:46 pm

The Legend

Veteran NFL Head Coach

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 5097Location: WSU

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

for all the OL bashing on this thread they were pretty good for most of the game. backus had a rough start and there isnt a guy around that can shield justin smith for more than a second or too but really our backs couldnt make anyone miss or break a tackle.

as for the presence of a FB making a difference - that would just have brought another defender into the box presnap and wouldnt simply have resulted in longer runs. you have to remember that the defense will match your personnel. the 49ers were easily stuffing our run us with 6 or 7 defenders and they would ve done the same with 7 or 8 defenders if a FB had been in there.

September 17th, 2012, 6:50 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

regularjoe12 wrote:

a long tima ago the same thig could have been said about Cowher (sp?) it took teh steelers a while to win the show, but they built a foundation so strong that it outlasteed him out there. and they made mistakes to....Lots of QB failures, a few gambles taht did or didn't pay off. Patience man, they dont HAVE to win it all today, they just have to keep getting better.

Difference is Bill Cowher has always been a disciplinarian, and he has always stressed fundamental football.

The Legend wrote:

Quote:

Levy also did a fair amount of impersonating a windmill on a good amount of missed-tackles. Levy did diagnose some plays well (the two tackles for loss on Gore come to mind), but I really have to wonder if he was "gambling" (which involves absolutely no talent) or if he really "read" the play that way.

i think it was more a case of "fool me once joke is on me, fool me twice - joke is on you." in the first half they came right at levy with a lead blocker and gore behind him - it sure looked like levy could ve easily just went after gore instead levy took on the lead blocker and it allowed gore to score. in the 2nd half levy stuffed the same play twice, running past the lead blocker and stuffing the runner. they ran the same play at him too many times

Levy tried to arm tackle Gore in the 4th but Gore ran right through it. I'm disgusted by the lack of fundamental football and disciplin on this team, which, IMO, falls directly on the coaching staff.

September 17th, 2012, 6:54 pm

Blueskies

QB Coach - Brian Callahan

Joined: September 13th, 2007, 12:43 pmPosts: 3126

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

Quote:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that... Singletary was straight up retarded. Dude was not an x's and o's type coach. Harbaugh comes in with exactly the same personnel and we start dominating.

Sure. There are really, really bad coaches. And really, really great ones. I just think they're really the exception. If you had a coach that isn't a complete idiot, that should be good enough.

(I'm saying this for the NFL though, and not college. I think college coaches are much more important due to recruiting, etc)

September 17th, 2012, 7:06 pm

modninerfan

Pop Warner Rookie

Joined: October 12th, 2011, 6:52 pmPosts: 104Location: Modesto, CA

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

The Legend wrote:

for all the OL bashing on this thread they were pretty good for most of the game. backus had a rough start and there isnt a guy around that can shield justin smith for more than a second or too but really our backs couldnt make anyone miss or break a tackle.

as for the presence of a FB making a difference - that would just have brought another defender into the box presnap and wouldnt simply have resulted in longer runs. you have to remember that the defense will match your personnel. the 49ers were easily stuffing our run us with 6 or 7 defenders and they would ve done the same with 7 or 8 defenders if a FB had been in there.

good point about the FB.

I think a telling stat is in the tackles... our DL + Aldon Smith had 13 individual tackles... the Lions had 3. DET o-line did a fine job pass blocking, I wouldnt say great, but they got the job done. But our D-line had absolutely no problem disengaging blockers in the run game. And believe it or not we had the same number of rushing plays.

_________________“Jim's a dynamic man with incredible determination, willpower and energy. He's the ultimate in a driven person who has high expectations. The people around him respond. He's on the cutting edge with an outstanding football mind.” - Bill Walsh

September 17th, 2012, 7:10 pm

m2karateman

RIP Killer

Joined: October 20th, 2004, 4:16 pmPosts: 10408Location: Where ever I'm at now

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

Blueskies wrote:

Honestly I think coaching is overrated. Very, very few of theme achieve success with multiple different franchises.

Would Belichick be considered so highly if he didn't have Brady? Would Walsh if he didn't have Montana?

If Mike Ditka was such a great coach, for example, why did he do so poorly with the Saints?

Perhaps Martz was considered an offensive genius because he had Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, rather than some amazing scheme.

If anything, I think it tends to be underrated. Many times an average player at a skill position can be made to look good because of his being put into good position by the coach via the play calling or the scheme. And bad coaching will definitely suppress talent from reaching its potential. There is a reason why some coaches win consistently, despite having different players leading their team. It's no different than a QB who wins games, despite the pieces around him changing.

Sometimes, average coaches paired with above average players equal great teams, but not dynasties. Martz had a great offensive scheme, but it didn't stand the test of time. DCs were eventually able to take away certain things that slowed down his offense. His stubborness, much like that of Mooch, were his undoing. Both those guys just refused to modify their playbooks, instead thinking that what's worked in the past will work forever.

It's when you put a great coach with a great player or players that you get teams that dominate for more than a year or two.

_________________I will not put on blinders when it comes to our QBs performances.

September 17th, 2012, 8:15 pm

regularjoe12

Def. Coordinator – Teryl Austin

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4216Location: Davison Mi

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

wjb21ndtown wrote:

regularjoe12 wrote:

a long tima ago the same thig could have been said about Cowher (sp?) it took teh steelers a while to win the show, but they built a foundation so strong that it outlasteed him out there. and they made mistakes to....Lots of QB failures, a few gambles taht did or didn't pay off. Patience man, they dont HAVE to win it all today, they just have to keep getting better.

Difference is Bill Cowher has always been a disciplinarian, and he has always stressed fundamental football.

The Legend wrote:

Quote:

Levy also did a fair amount of impersonating a windmill on a good amount of missed-tackles. Levy did diagnose some plays well (the two tackles for loss on Gore come to mind), but I really have to wonder if he was "gambling" (which involves absolutely no talent) or if he really "read" the play that way.

i think it was more a case of "fool me once joke is on me, fool me twice - joke is on you." in the first half they came right at levy with a lead blocker and gore behind him - it sure looked like levy could ve easily just went after gore instead levy took on the lead blocker and it allowed gore to score. in the 2nd half levy stuffed the same play twice, running past the lead blocker and stuffing the runner. they ran the same play at him too many times

Levy tried to arm tackle Gore in the 4th but Gore ran right through it. I'm disgusted by the lack of fundamental football and disciplin on this team, which, IMO, falls directly on the coaching staff.

You right Cowher never over acted. He never once ran up to a ref and crammed a pic of 12 men on the field int the refs shirt pocket. What was I thinking....I'm way off on that one ]

Honestly I think coaching is overrated. Very, very few of theme achieve success with multiple different franchises.

Would Belichick be considered so highly if he didn't have Brady? Would Walsh if he didn't have Montana?

If Mike Ditka was such a great coach, for example, why did he do so poorly with the Saints?

Perhaps Martz was considered an offensive genius because he had Kurt Warner and Marshall Faulk, rather than some amazing scheme.

Not sure I agree. Look at the niners, as modniner fan says, for an example.

They've got a talented roster, but what I saw last night (1.20am kick offs mean I watch the game Monday night instead - just not dedicated enough, I guess! ) was a talented team that did the fundamental stuff brilliantly. Nothing massively flash, or wacky. Just fundamentals executed well.

As modniner fan said, their D-linemen shed blocks well. Their RBs broke a tackle or made an extra yard or two after the tackle. Their D rarely missed and when they hit, hit backwards. Their coverage rarely broke down. etc etc.

That to me is down to coaching.

Lots of other things have to come together too - the roster, the front office, a bit of luck every now and again. Coaching on its own isn't going to get you there, no matter how good it is. So there are always going to be examples of good coaches not being succesful. But coaching is a big part of the picture, IMO.

That said, whilst I am hugely impressed with Harbaugh and, if I'm being honest, rate him above Schwartz - I'm happy with Schwartz. I think we have an above average NFL head coach in him, and he's the best HC we've had in my time as a fan.

As Pablo points out, good coaches need time and patience too. And I'm happy to give Schwartz both, especially as this is his first HC gig and he's had the Lions moving in the right direction during his time here.

So I'm not so much complaining about what we have, as complementing the niners on what they have.

I also find it amusing that there are so many players, coaches etc out there that you see on rival teams and think: "that guy is a complete douche" but secretly you know he's the kind of douche you'd love if he was on your team.

September 18th, 2012, 4:51 am

liontrax

NFL Team Captain

Joined: March 21st, 2005, 2:11 pmPosts: 1636Location: Wolverine, Mi.

Re: GAME DAY THREAD: Lions @ 49ers

The bottom line for me is, the Lions got beat by a better team. The Niners have a better O-line, rb's, secondary, and linebackers. Our deficiencies at those positions was glaring. Couldn't run the ball, couldn't stop the run or defend the pass with any proficiency. Talent wins. Hope Mayhew is paying attention. Lions aren't a bad team. Just not in their league yet. Continue to build, hopefully with an eye on improving the talent base.