You get knocked down and you get up again, wipe the orange stain from your clothes and then what?

Margaret, maybe we have this all wrong. Maybe the big news didn’t happen on Tuesday. Maybe it was Wednesday. They say Trump woke a sleeping giant, but maybe that giant didn’t wake up before the election. Maybe it woke after the election when we all finally realized that everything we hold true and dear about this nation can indeed be taken away. Maybe, just maybe the sleeping giant is actually the millions who trusted in hope and love instead of those who walked into a polling booth and secretly voted for hate and fear.

I saw a map today of voters age 18-25. The map was shockingly blue from coast to coast and even in the middle. Could this be true? And if so, how do we ensure those voters don’t become jaded?

I am not sure what is next for Margaret & Helen but we are not dead yet. And I’ll be damned if we go down without a fight. We’ll promise to try and hold on until 2020 if you promise to hold on with us.

First up, 2018 midterms. We’ll be here. Will you?

Whomever we are and whatever color we are, and whatever age we are, and whatever gender we are, and whatever sexual preference, religious belief, city or town, church, mosque or synagogue… we are awake now. And this is our country.

We are battle worn but not battle weary. Someone has to watch that skunk Trump and keep him in line. And someone has to watch the Republican powerhouse and make sure they don’t overreach. Our elected Dems need us now more than ever.

For some really strange reason, the R’s just cannot break their fixation on Middle Eastern people and their religion. There’s this creeping upward mention of “registries” and so help us internment camps. Have they never, ever heard the old saying, “First they came for the (fill in the blank), then the (fill in the blank), AND IN THE END THEY CAME FOR ME. I’m wearing my “safety pin” today. It is becoming a standard in my life style. I even have some “lucky charms” dangling from it. As a piece of costume jewelry, it doesn’t raise any eyebrows even with the most jaded, paranoid people. I also doubt they have yet to hear about the “safety pin” movement. Well, that could be our piece of luck!

jim- thanks for the link. I see a couple things there which are the same as all across the map. Folks voted for Mr Trump far a myriad of “reasons” which fall into 3-4 broad categories.
The striking thing to me was that there was no mention of the prospects and hopes for the future of those places- one mention of teens on food stamps to prop up some phony stance, talk about independent thinkers and doers, etc etc- but no talk of families and their place in the community, schools and healthcare, infrastructure, blah, blah, blah.
Might just be the focus of the article- hope so. Otherwise these folks come off as living in a me-me-me cocoon with their buddies…

Bannon must go. Doesn’t matter if your Senator is Dem or a Repub, call them. Call your House Rep, too. Call your state Repub party and ask if they are racists and white supremacists. If they say aren’t then they need to stand up and get rid of this horrible person.

Jimmayor, I read that link you furnished. I tried but I still don’t get it. I’ve been to Vermont and Irasburg. Its absolutely beautiful country all year round. Folks seem to have self-sufficiency down to a science and thats good. My family did that during the Second World War and we were located in the inner city of Detroit. We were pleased to provide for ourselves and even share. But, no, I do not see what the heck Mosher was talking about. Would he have voted for Hill if she had used “assholes” instead of “deplorables”? Or, because she is a woman, would that have worked against her whereas Trump suffers no damage for a mouth that should be washed out with soap. Must be something in the water or the air.

Hi, CoBlu – I agree; silence not acceptable… And one of the first things dictators do is make every effort to try to stop any dissent or disagreement. A shining example last night and this morning, with Hamilton, and Trump’s immediate response, characterizing a very courteous expression of legitimate concern as “harassment,” and demanding an “apology.”

It’s not that he’s just a tissue-thin-skinned pathological narcissist; he also knows he wouldn’t be where he is now without the failure of the GOP establishment, in most cases, to open their mouths in any meaningful way. For this, many are now being rewarded by The Leader with positions of authority. (Think any of his appointees will ever dare to offer any opposing counsel…?)

I live in Connecticut, currently about as “blue” as a State can be. Both our Senators, Chris Murphy and Chuck Schumer, and all our Reps in the House, are Democrats. They’re getting calls anyway, and even soliciting them.

I’d like to add two groups to your list of organizations deserving of support: The League of Women Voters, and Bryan Stevenson’s Equal Justice Initiative.(www..eji.org). A big advantage of the LWV is that they work all over the country, and usually aren’t backing any specific political agenda, which gives the opportunity for some dialogue that crosses party affiliations.

And, again, reaching out to offer local support to our neighbors, in our own communities, is both doable and, IMO, incredibly important.

I will refer all of you readers to this thread, where I’ve been collecting resources for action–and yes, definitely, calling your elected officials and demanding that they do their job is definitely essential.

Everyone absolutely needs to call their congresspersons, especially the Republicans and ask point blank where they stand on this horrible issue of hate. I just called Mike Coffman’s office in Colorado and asked them if he was a racist, did he support this movement of hate and white supremacy. After a big pause the lady said no, he is not a racist. I told her that if he truly was not that he needed to step away from the party and stand up for the people of Colorado and the nation. Elections are again in two years for Congress. We need to know where republicans stand and if they show any tendency toward supporting the hate agenda. We have to get that information out to voters.
We are heading right into Nazism, fascism, communism or a little cesspool of all of them with this lunatic.

If you live in Louisiana, the Senatorial election is not over. Donate to the Democrat Foster Campbell even if you are from out of state. The election will be held on Dec 10. He needs to take the seat away from the Republican. That will narrow the seat difference between the Republicans who now hold the majority and the Democrats. Democrats have to go to the polls.

Donate to the ACLU and Planned Parenthood if you haven’t. Just a little from a lot of people will help. The ACLU will fight for the people against hate crimes.

As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their hearts desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.
– H. L. Mencken
The Baltimore Evening Sun, July 26, 1920

“12. I WILL not lose hope. I will keep reminding myself that politics zigs and zags, and that I can do more than shout in the wind. I can fight for my values even between elections, and even at the micro level I can mitigate the damage to my neighbors and attempt to heal a social fabric that has been rent.”

The latest… The Trump fraud thing was “settled, with no admission of wrongdoing,” for a mere $25 million…

Which just goes to show, once again, what this next “government” is going to be about: If you have enough money, you’re never wrong.

He, Trump has spent his whole life operating on that principle. Wonder how this is sitting with all those self-described “average Joes and Janes” who voted for him…?

And I’m thinking that the ONLY reason we even allow our judicial system to offer the “settling” option is because we can just no longer afford the financial burden of pursuing justice. And that’s effing disgusting…

Yeah; “kalistocracy”… Seems to be what’s in the pipeline – although I don’t feel it has been for the last eight years, at least not in the Executive Branch. (Lordy, but I’m going to miss that family!)

Hard to know which announced “event” of today I found the more thrilling: The naming of Jeff Sessions as Attorney General, or that He, Trump’s attorneys are now trying to convince the judge that their employer is “so busy” getting ready for his next assignment that he cannot possibly take the time to appear as the defendant in s own fraud trial. Even though – and I will try not to scream here, but cannot avoid the use of upper case – HE HAS TIME FOR A “VI CTORY TOUR”…

I do note that the posted “comments” following these announcements are less and less filled with remarks justifying how all these things are “fine,” and “good choices,” and only we “libtards” can fail to see how all this Makes America Great Again.

“Oxford Dictionary Definition: Kakistocracy –
NOUN
1[mass noun] Government by the least suitable or competent citizens of a state:

‘the danger is that this will reduce us to kakistocracy’
‘every government that has existed since the ancient Greeks has been a prime example of kakistocracy’
1.1[count noun] A state or society governed by its least suitable or competent citizens:
‘the modern regime is at once a plutocracy and a kakistocracy’
‘the man in the street must share part of the blame for allowing such a kakistocracy to entrench itself’
Origin
Early 19th century: from Greek kakistos worst + -cracy.”…….

As for why anybody would have “super delegates,” I dunno… Why would the guy who said the electoral college was part of the “rigged system” now refer to it as “genius”?

Oh, WAIT! I know the answer to that one! Same “reason” as his evaluation of everything: If it works for him, it’s “genius”; if it doesn’t, it’s “rigged.” He’s a simple fellow, after all…

You might want to keep that sole determinant of his “policies” in mind as the next several weeks roll on, and he decides which of his “pledges to America” he intends to keep, and which he doesn’t. That way you won’t be surprised.

just thought this sexist,racist,misogynic,homophobic and deplorable person would say hi…….HI!!!!!!!!
Prepping venison for the freezer right now(taking a break)
Why would Obama pardon Hillary if she did nothing wrong????????
TRUMP/PENCE 2016

Its almost hard to believe but there is a Purge going on amongst the wannabe’s for the new administration. This transition stuff is taking place in Trump Tower in Manhattan and traffic is blocked 50 blocks in just one direction due to the security now around that building. Question: what do the rejects do? They knew they whereon the lists for some time now and I bet they were already packing suitcases and getting read to relocate. Is there maybe a special “home” for Trump rejects? Whereever it is I bet it has an unlisted phone number!

> Helen Philpot posted: “Margaret, maybe we have this all wrong. Maybe the > big news didn’t happen on Tuesday. Maybe it was Wednesday. They say Trump > woke a sleeping giant, but maybe that giant didn’t wake up before the > election. Maybe it woke after the ele” >

Gato, good post on Trump’s father/son relationship. However, he had 2 brothers, one of whom is still alive. They seem to be relatively normal; i.e., nothing like Trump and they live decidedly out of the limelight, something that Trump is addicted to. Question I have here: Trump’s father went to great lengths to bail him out of deep financial doo-doo. Does “respect” actually go that far or does it stop short of that? Frankly, this does not sound like a really functional family of origin

Thanks for the link, Pi – And I’ll bet the Macedonians picked up on He, Trump is a low-hanging fruit (as it were) since OUR media, in all formats, found it so much more lucrative to report on any time T-Rump farted than on any massive pub lic service program Hillary might have put forth around the same time…

And I’m guilty of being a repeat-clicker, too!! I finally did wise up and got a grip on myself, though…

Hi, Mageen – I did see someone interviewed on TV talking about that kind of thing. What I understood was that they do it for money. If they can round up enough “followers,” they can sell advertising. The US is apparently a prime target – we’ve got money. Don’t know if the motivation has anything to do with politics; they may just post anything they think will generate attention.

I’ve also heard, more than once, that the Soviet government pays a bunch of people, regularly specifically to circulate circulate pro-Putin “news.” And, which wouldn’t be a surprise, recently included plenty of anti-Clinton bits. NO REAL CONFIRMATION ON THAT, THOUGH.

Can’t help but keep thinking, though, that there’s a whole lot more in the Putin-Trump “relationship” than we yet know, and most of it has to do with money, and Trump’s apparently never-ending quest for “respect” and confirmation that he’s a “winner.”

Kind of a random thought here: A lot of men who grow up with cold, harsh, and critical fathers pretty much give up, when they’re very young, on ever receiving anything like “love” from those fathers – and quickly learn to replace “love” with “respect.” At least their fathers make it very clear to them how that can be “earned.”

Gato and any other porch dwellers, have you heard anything about blogs from eastern Europe, including Macedonia, that we tarnishing Hillary in any way? Just discovered today that there is at least one such blog, the one about the 47 deaths, that is actually the brainchild – if you can call it that = of a varying man in Macedonia. He simply makes things up and then slings them out on the web. He’s not the only one. There seems to be nothing else for these young people to do as unemployment in their countries is high as a kite. And people like James swallow them whole.I would be interested in knowing if anyone else has heard of this stuff!

Oh, Blu… It all seems so true to me, and has for a long time. Why did not one – NOT ONE – of the Trump supporters, whether individual or media outlet, ever question him about why he has all his stuff made overseas…? (We know why, of course, but still…)

Keeping people distracted from seeing what’s actually going on (i.e. who’s really screwing them) is an ancient and well-understood skill of those who practice it – con artists. (All “branding” has an element of the con in it, too.Is Charmin REALLY so much softer and “gentler”…?)

All the con has to do is figure out what the mark hates or fears most, what his or her greatest vulnerability is – and very few of us are reticent about expressing those sentiments, so it’s not even hard to do. Then the con just has to point the finger at whatever that is, cast all the blame in that direction, and make only the slightest “argument” to reinforce it. The mark is already fully prepared to believe the con – After all, the con is just corroborating what the mark already “knows”… ! Piece of cake… And people don’t have to be stupid to be taken in; almost any of us can be conned by someone, at some point.(Bernie Madoff springs immediaely to mind…)

How many Trump supporters do we think actually ever lost a job to an “illegal” living in this country? (Overseas, yes, but not here.) How many have lost a family member in a “radical Muslim” terrorist attack? How many of their daughters/wives/mothers/sisters have been terrorized by rampant gangs of black “thugs”? How has anyone EVER personally been harmed by the fact that they heard about a same sex marriage somewhere in the country?

Is the middle class being screwed? Of course it is. But, sadly, it’s being screwed by its own fervent belief in the things that are actually doing it in: Unregulated mega-corporations, no limit on the profits those corporations can make, minimal taxes on those profits, endless loopholes to avoid paying a great deal of even those taxes (as our president-elect has bragged about doing), the recent equivalency of money with “speech,” and on and on and on…

But when our fantasy conflicts with our reality, we most often choose the fantasy. We humans can go a long time without food, but barely a day without our beliefs. And that’s equally true on all sides.

It is extremely interesting that 8 years ago when people were upset about the depressed economy courtesy of yet another Republican, Dubya, all the hate mongering news stations—FOX—and the hate talkers across the country were telling people to get a better, job, work 3 jobs, get out and help yourselves and quit whining. And now the chant from the middle of the country and the south is poor me, poor me, look what the government did to me. Things have flipped and sympathy is coming from the hate talkers who are blaming the totally wrong people. Those of you in the red section of this country, look at who your Governor is. Republican I am sure. Look at who controls your State legislature, Republican I am sure. They are the ones in the Iron Belt who busted your coal unions, your teachers, nurses, policemen’s unions. They trashed the auto industry. Our President saved the auto manufacturers while Trump and the other Republicans screamed, ‘LET THEM FAIL”. And by the way, Trump gets all of his steel from China. He won’t be buying it from our steel mines. The Republicans cut funding for any program that might help you of the middle class and working poor. The Republicans did this to you. For 7 years the Republicans have had the majority in the House of Representatives in Washington and for the last 3 the Republicans have had the majority in the Senate. Have they ever passed a law that was beneficial to your situation ? The Congress creates and passes the laws. They have refused to bring anything to the floor of the House that would benefit you in the middle class and you who are working poor. This election was about racism and white supremacy, pure and simple. Those of you who voted for this cretin think that you have such shitty lives that your only desire is to be able to feel superior to “the others”. Your anger and rage is misplaced. You have always been the ones to tout family values, Bible thumpers, superior “christians” ………..Christians don’t vote for racism, bigotry, misogyny and sexual assult.

Questions or topics? I think there is some scrambling here of concepts. The topics were given to each candidate before hand. That is not unusual. Considering the lack of debate training by the R candidate, you would think it would have helped considerably but oddly it did not. Hillary is an experienced courtroom attorney. Mental and verbal ripostes are the specialty of this profession.

And, another thing. How many of you have seen the TV show “Madame Secretary”? I am amazed at how close it comes to reality. Also, anyone who has run out of hobbies by now there is a book containing the definitions of all the federal jobs, including Sec/State. Take a look at that. Yes it is written in governmentese. Recommend this be done on a chilly night, wind outside the window, lulling fire in the grate and a warmed glass of brandy. That last part is called survival skills.

Hey, What… I haven’t a clue.! But I’d guess she said something like, “Okay nothing surprising here.” But all those debate questions, far as I can recall, could be so easily be answered by anyone seriously running for President – and giving even the slightest shit about doing so – and any person doing that would already have at least a tentative answer in mind to all kinds of questions, don’t you think?

Hell… I COULD HAVE ANSWERED ANY OF THEM, and the biggest thing I did today was make dinner… (Oh, and write about fifteen emails…)

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them; the first time.” Maya Angelou

The drumfsterfire has shown people who he is, repeatedly: misogynist, entitled, narcissistic, thin skinned, xenophobic, bigoted, ignorant, and worse. And he has surrounded himself with people who’ll feed his ego, and pursue power under his aegis, to the detriment of everyone else. They, too, have shown us who they are.

Those who decide to give this wast of space a chance, do so at their own risk.

The rest of us already know better–we have looked around the world, at the many autocrats who started their dictatorships via democratic elections, and see what they have done/are doing, to their once hopeful nations.

James, I am right here where the action is. We have known for years that the State Department had the most decrepit servers. They were more sieves than anything else. When Hillary was appointed Sec/State she asked security for a totally secure unhackable system that included her phone. She was told No, only the President is allowed to have such stuff. Hence, she made the decision she did. Also, she did not use a computer. Everyone thinks she did but she is not a computer person as she herself will attest. She used a hand-held. Further, it was proven even to the satisfaction if not dismay of Comey that the people sending her transmissions were not doing it correctly. They were not using a jacket marked Confidential. Instead they would jot “c” somewhere in the margin or in the document. Very often it wasn’t visible until the document was read halfway through. I once worked for a federal agency many, many years ago. The venue was an old private office building with very little room for files, confidential or otherwise. I remember a 9 x 11 room with file cabinets and a counter. The cabinets were stuffed and the overflow just sat on top or on the counter and often in stacks on the floor. This room also served as a transit site. As hard as the “librarian” worked to keep some order i n the room, it was largely impossible. Anyone could breeze by and just grab a document. Even then sometimes the document did or did not have a cover jacket. General Powell and Condi Rice also did things their own way but they were never nailed for it. After all, they were Republicans. And the servers in the state department still need trashing and replacement with new equipment, something that Congress controls because they have appropriation powers.

As for an aide reading her messages, that is common practice at the top here in D.C. She got thousands of them every day of every nature, a lot of them throwaways. As for Anthony Weiner showing up on a computer assigned to her aide, ask Carlos Danger what the heck he was doing.

Selling uranium? Hardly. That takes Congressional action. Same for a lot of the stuff she is accused of. For instance, Sec/State is not in charge of security. That falls into someone else’s basket and if it is ever to exist at all at a decent level Congress should stop playing with that particular budget instead of cutting it by 30%. Look it up. Its public information. But it is oh so much more fund to dump on a woman, especially Hillary. She has been litigated to the hilt and back and yet more and more wannabe superCongresscritters still want to make their careers out of her hide.

She was well known and respected around the world as Sec/State. Even Republicans at the time praised her hard work (112 countries). You never heard one negative word about her from the General or Condi during that time.

Despite your statement that “No one knows what Trump will do,” I think we do, if we just look at what he has done – and said – so far, and in all his public life. You, yourself, in fact, in your first paragraph, provide what I think is a very good analysis of his character, and prediction of his probable “behavior” as President. Take another look at that, and I think you’ll see what we’re about to get.

Secretary Clinton was rejected by many, including yourself, on exactly that basis: Her record. Ironically, we actually know much more about her record, her financial dealings, her connections, and just about everything else, than we do about Mr. Trump. We’ve all seen her tax records; she’s been the focus of endless investigations; all her connections are known, whether she likes that or not; her husband’s transgressions have been dragged through the fire; even her medical records are far less questionable than Trump’s.

If we can remove our denial, can rid of ourselves of our hopes and wishes (so difficult to do) and look honestly at both candidates, I think it’s very clear who they both have been, are, and will continue to be.

Liberals were foolish and arrogant in believing that “no one” could possibly vote for someone we consider so reprehensible. His supporters insisted they would – in fact, they yelled and screamed it. Even so, we didn’t acknowledge those supporters, or believe them, and that was our failure – a failure to pay attention.

On the other side, his supporters believed him when he said he was “one of them.” He isn’t, has never been, and has done everything in his power to prove to the world, and himself, that he’s not. He told them he’s an “outsider,” far removed from lobbyists, corporate moguls, the media, and celebrities, and that only he could “drain the swamp” of the destructive influence. But he has never known anyone other than lobbyists, corporate moguls, the media, and celebrities. (It is extremely difficult to be successful in high-end construction without knowing these people, and he hasn’t always done well.) These are the people whose favor and acceptance he has so desperately sought his entire life. And, so far, it’s exactly those people he’s choosing for possible Cabinet appointments: Newt Gingrich, Rudy Giuliani, Carl Icahn, Steve Bannon (from Breitbart), Roger Ailes (Fox), Reince Priebus, a former oil company executive, a former Goldman/Sachs officer currently running a private hedge fund… And three of his children and one son-in-law, all of whom are also running his “blind trust.” I hardly see an “outsider” among them; do you?

We all have a lot of painful lessons to learn here. We on the traditional left have gotten the first serious smack in the face; I suspect more are coming soon, and there will be plenty to go around.

Good wishes to you and your family in the days to come; hope you wish me the same.

Mageen, Trump from what I have read of him is a venal man who changed from fairly liberal as one who would change a suit. He shoots his mouth off for effect. He verbally disrespects women and others when it suits him, and he is a better self promoter than a business man. Warren Buffet said Trump is good at enhancing his brand. Buffet, a big Hilary supporter suggested we give our new president a chance, As far as we know, Trump has not contributed to any deaths.

Hillary is a known quantity and a proven liar. She and Obama mismanaged their Middle Eastern policy and helped contribute the millions of people who died or were dislocated. The FBI report which argued against indicting Hilary charged that she behaved incompetantly and put our security at risk. Wikileaks showed more incriminating evidence including the party’s conspiring to stack the deck against Bernie Sanders.

ObamaCare which is hurting our son and daughter in law, millions of people who have dropped out of the labor force and small businesses with too many regulations are more reasons why I chose to vote for the devil I didn’t know than for the one I knew. I never voted for Trump in the primaries, and I opposed him with letters to the editor. I had to hold my nose to vote for him while cursing the Republicans and Democrats for inflicting such horrible choices on this country.

No one knows what Trump will do. He and Obama were to meet for ten minutes and their visit lasted over an hour and a half. Trump said afterword that he could support two features of ObamaCare. He may also back track on other issues. We, including Trump have no idea what he will really do,

Pity parties are nice, and your disappointment at being denied a sure thing is understandable. Riots and anger are premature. Wait until he moves in to the White House.

So far, I am happy that Republicans have both houses and the White House. This victory will change the political landscape. Republicans have the same chance to make good changes as the Democrats had when Obama was elected. They have two years to prove they are able, or they will go the way of Hilary,

…”It’s about overt racism and hostility toward minorities.
It’s about religion being weaponized.
It’s about crassness and vulgarity and disregard for women.
It’s about a barricaded, militarized, bully nation.
It’s about an unapologetic, open-faced ugliness.

And it is not only that these things have been ratified by our nation that grieve us; all this hatred, fear, racism, bigotry, and intolerance—it’s knowing that these things have been amen-ed by our neighbors, our families, our friends, those we work with and worship alongside. That is the most horrific thing of all. We now know how close this is….

We absolutely need you, Helen. I hope we all live long enough to see 2018. With this fool , all bets are off. I find that I can’t say anything without using all the cuss words I know and some new ones I had to make up to fit this horrid disaster. I can only say, WHAT THE F*** WERE THEY THINKING voting for this ass ?

Obviously the fool had to have taken 20 XANAX before his meeting with OUR PRESIDENT because his eyes were glassy and he could barely keep from falling out of his chair. Add to that his attention span of a gnat !! He lied his face off, he doesn’t care two shits about the people in this country.

The meeting between Michelle and this jerk’s 4th wife was priceless. Our first ladies, Michelle, Laura and Barbara Bush, Hillary, all the way back to Nancy Reagan and probably further, had intelligence and the ability to stand in front of people and speak………..Yikes, now we have a mental moron who plagiarized all TWO of her speeches. She plans to rid the internet of cyberbullies………..that’s hilarious when her husband is one of the biggest cyberbullies on the face of the earth.

Yes, we need to be smart–and not in the drumfsterfire’s way–about how we resist, about how we remain a democracy, about what we can do to protect the institutions that protect the most vulnerable among us.

Hi, Aztec – Yes, I saw this about half an hour ago. I think everything written therein must be endlessly kept in the forefront of the mind of anyone who thinks, even for a moment, that real “change” in someone like He, Trump is possible – and that certainly includes myself.

His attempt at “civility” has already ended, less than forty-eight hours after the vote was counted. In a single hour, he tweeted that “Melania really liked Mrs. O a lot!” and followed it almost immediately with his indignant complaint that “professional protestors” and the media were “very unfair”… Not even “winning,” in this case, is sufficient; ANY objection is unacceptable.

Christ almighty… This is not going to be easy.

Our esistance and objection must be relentless, but it must not, IMHO, be knee-jerk and without consideration of possible unforeseen consequences. We not only MUST believe that He, Trump means what he says; we also have to believe that his supporters mean what they say, including their determination to wage armed insurrection.

My primary concern about urging the Electoral College to break their promises, even if they can legally do so, is that it will provide a perfect “justification,” in the minds of many, for real civil war, and the forcible and immediate dismantling of much of our governmental system (Yes; I do think the Electoral College is not a good way to elect a president, and I think that Citizens United must be repealed, among many other things.)

I wish I didn’t feel this way. I’m not advocating silence or compromise – but I am advocating acting on the basis of really believing everything we can know about our opposition, and behaving in ways that will exploit their vulnerabilities. It’s not necessary to convince ourselves that “people are basically good at heart” – sometimes we are, and sometimes we’re not. But I think it IS necessary that we believe that others are human beings, with the same flaws and desires we all share, even if to varying degrees – including, sometimes, obviously, to the point of pathology.

We all want to be heard. We all want to be respected. We all want to feel secure. We all have prejudices and biases, and we must all do our best to know and understand ourselves and what’s driving us – ourselves and each other. Not all of us do, and some of us are desperate – but any of us who can manage at least some self-knowledge had damned well better figure it out.

I’m still working on myself here… As I said, it’s not easy, and I wish I didn’t feel I have to do it, anyway!

I am finally beginning to come out of shock and able to breath again. This is why everyone should vote. We also would be wise to do this by popular vote rather than Electoral College.
I will follow the advance of the Trump Administration (gee, that still makes me laugh) and hope he cannot make his most disgusting and ant-freedom ideas come to pass. Hang in there minorities we are here to fight for you. Put my safety pin on today.

Ya neex to read up on what the Electoral College can and cannot do.
There are PROVISIONS written into it to keep one such as Cheeto from ever assuming the office.
Hillary would NOT be chosen, but it would end up in the House for a vote. Since Republicans rule, it would be another Republican, probably Pence.
Read the document.

I was rushing over to post a link to the NYReview of Books piece on surviving autocracy, but I see Susan Savia beat me to it.

Please, please, please, lets keep these rules in mind–the orange disaster absolutely means what he says, and he’ll do his best to destroy all democratic institutions in the US in order to become, and remain, ‘leader for life.’ It can happen here–and over fifty million citizens are complicit in it becoming an imminent reality. We need to remain outraged, and remain vigilant, and NOT be conciliatory.

Conciliation has never won any battles for equality, civil rights, or democracy itself.

Gato, great post! The last time this happened was in 2000 and at least it wasn’t President Gore taken by surprise on 9/11. I have the dreadful feeling that this sort of thing could happen again but this time the destruction would come from the inside. I know thats hard to believe but it was hard to believe that an American would blow up a federal building in Oklahoma City. No I seriously doubt any of the D’s would do it. Most likely it would come from all those folks who really, really believed the promises that were tossed at them, promises that are going to be damn hard to fulfill if at all. The deal breaker will occur with unemployment. the heartbreaker will be the autocratic destruction of insurance for people who cannot afford to go out into the market and get what they need simply because they are poor. I sincerely hope this country doesn’t bleed.

Donna, I am from a Canadian family. Know how you feel. I have the same sensation. Hang on. Hold your head up. Canada may be the one to show the best example of governance. The R party was never much good at that sort of thing and looks like their “talent” is even more blunted now.

Dear Aztec – Thank you for your post. I try to remember that, in all the great and centuries-old Eastern martial arts, that the way to “fight harder” is to be soft – to be absorbent. When you absorb your enemy’s punches, instead of openly resisting them, you absorb your enemy’s strength. And you refuse to become them, or fight on their terms.Those two things make your enemy weaker, and you stronger.

I have watched my neighbor, a triple black belt and instructor in Tang Su Do (a Korean martial art) teach this to her “Tiny Tigers,” children ages five to eight, and have seen her deal with loose pit bulls in our neighborhood. In both situations, she encourages power when it’s appropriate, and (literally) defangs it when it’s not.

I just re-upped in the ACLU, and became a monthly supporter of The Sierra Club and Planned Parenthood. That’s about all I can handle just now, but it’s something. However, making phone calls, writing emails, letters, posts, etc. don’t cost much and you can bet I’ll be doing a LOT of those.

With all due respect, I think supporting the idea that members of the Electoral College defy what most people consider their sworn responsibilities could lead to a number of those dreaded “unforeseen consequences”…

I most often respect and support change.org, and have signed many of their petitions, and contributed to their work. But let’s think about some things here…

First, I agree that, from everything we’ve seen so far, He, Trump seems unfit to serve as President. I am not confident that he has the interest, the skills, the will, or maybe even the character to do well at this massively important job. And this could put us all at great risk.

But, looking at the “big picture,” is the goal to make sure Hillary becomes President right now, or is the goal to assure that our system of government remains intact, and possibly improves, going forward…?

Some possibilities to consider:

If the Electors fail to perform as most voters believe they are obligated to do, this can be taken as absolute proof that “the system is rigged,” by a broad range of citizens. Many will consider it further “proof” of the malevolence and dictatorial control of the supposed “Clinton Cartel,” and they will not take to it easily.

Doing this will certainly give He, Trump, an almost endless platform to continue a rant of hatred and division. He will have no real reason to even try to “be Presidential.” This could, literally, bring our country to a destructive and most likely deadly civil war. And I do mean literally; and I do mean deadly.

Most people do not know that the Electors are not bound to vote as they’ve been supposedly chosen to do. Consequently, this would be seen by many as yet another subversion of our “system,” and could do as much potentially irreparable damage as four years of a Trump presidency. (No guarantee there, but it certainly seems a possibility.)

A President Clinton “elected” in this way, would most likely have, IMHO, an insurmountable burden to bear. Her administration would be stymied at every possible moment by even more angry contention, lawsuits, and “investigations” than she would have had she been chosen by the Electoral College. Congress would be consumed; the country would be consumed; and another four years would be wasted with our government essentially accomplishing next to nothing in any area. All of our people would suffer, and the security of the world could be severely jeopardized.

All of this could well lead to the failure of our democracy. And the only thing that allows dictators and demagogues to step in and take control is the void created by the collapse of a functioning democracy, usually accompanied by an unsustainable economy.

Thank you for this. Facebook and Twitter have been awash in gloom, and I have had a hard time breaking from it. This is terrible, but in retrospect, not unexpected. We *knew* our country was broken. We knew there was a seething cauldron of hate and pain and anger just below the surface. In retrospect, we should have seen it coming, but we didn’t. Perhaps this is the curse of the light-workers and futurists–we believe so much in our hopeful view of the future that it sometimes blinds us to the ugliness of the present. I’m taking a Mental Health Day off of Twitter and FB, but this post was really something I needed today.

Hi, Diana – Now this is VERY interesting, and I’m mightily impressed with your homework!

I’m assuming this Compact applies only to national elections, yes? I guess we must still have districts to elect Congresspeople – although somehow eliminating absurd gerrymandering has a lot of appeal to me, too.

Electing our President by popular vote would also make targeted “poll watching” and potential voter intimidation ineffective in those elections, as well. (Must say, though, that I’ve not heard of a single instance of that happening, anywhere, although it may have affected voter turnout in ways that are not publicly known. Another Trumpian Promise unfulfilled, like so many before, and probably so many more to come…)

I see from the map that my State is not one of the signees, which surprises me. Time to contact my Senators and Representatives!

I’m also EXTREMELY pleased to learn, from another post here, that all Administration appointees must have background checks, which will be examined by the FBI, wobbly as they currently are.

A lot of interesting things could happen between now and January 20, 2017. (Still think there’s something Putin-related in He, Trump’s tax returns… But, of course, I don’t “know” anything.)

Helen, I am the mother of an 11th-grade boy. His report was that nearly all the students at his school came late on Wednesday and then “either sat there crying or staring at the wall.” I showed him the blue map of 18-25 y.o. voters when he came home, and he solemnly swore, “We won’t grow up and turn into Republicans. I promise.” Some solace.

I agree with fishducky. The electoral college has now at least twice put into office the person who lost the popular vote. There is a realistic path to making an end-run around the Electoral College for the 2020 elections. This is because we don’t need a constitutional amendment to stop using the Electoral College. We only need the National Popular Vote Interstate Compact, which is an agreement among several U.S. states and the District of Columbia to award all their respective electoral votes to whichever presidential candidate wins the overall popular vote in the 50 states and the District of Columbia. The compact is designed to ensure that the candidate who wins the most popular votes is elected president, and it will come into effect only when it will guarantee that outcome.[2][3] As of 2016, it has been joined by ten states and the District of Columbia; their 165 combined electoral votes amount to 30.7% of the total Electoral College vote, and 61.1% of the 270 votes needed for it to have legal force.

If states and territories totaling at least 270 electoral votes pass laws joining the National Popular Vote Compact, then the next presidential election will be determined by the winner of the national popular vote. We are already up to 165.

If we can make eliminating the Electoral College a national issue broadly adopted by elected Democrats, and if Democrats can do well at the state level in the 2018 midterm elections—which is realistic in the event of an unpopular President Trump—then in 2019 we can pass laws that would make the 2020 presidential election determined by the popular vote.

Here’s something for all of us to also keep in mind, brought back to my thinking by something Garrison Keeler just wrote, I forget where…

I’ve never thought that Trump had any desire to actually BE President; he seemed to just relish the idea of standing safely behind a podium and saying anything he felt like saying, to a bunch of people he knew would agree with his every word. And I wonder how many of his “base” thought he/they would win.

But he did win. And he has a predominantly Repub congress, at least for the first two years. And yes, he’s probably going to appoint any number of former oil company execs and slightly crackpot neurosurgeons and investment “gurus” to Cabinet posts like Interior, Health & Human Services, and that’s going to be tough… (I’m not able to even think about a SCOTUS appointee…)

HOWEVER! Now that base will no longer have Obama/Hillary/”liberal elites,” and so on, to blame for anything, because THEY “won,” and THEIR PEOPLE will be in charge of everything. When that “wall” fails to materialize; when immigrant workers continue to be brought in for grueling seasonal agricultural jobs; when those “good paying jobs” don’t show up in the Rust Belt or in Coal Country; when their health care disappears or costs go through the ceiling; when the minimum wage stays cripplingly low; when corporations continue to have their products manufactured overseas; when the 1% continues to pay less taxes than they do; when people continue to arm themselves and shoot each other whenever they feel like it; when they lose whatever they have to floods and mega-storms; and their kids are still going to schools that are falling apart, overcrowded, and understaffed, they will only be able to point the finger in one direction: At the very people they themselves voted into office.

When they try to point that finger, as they will inevitably continue to do, for as long as they can, in the direction of their customary targets, we can now just say, “Hey – we didn’t pick this government; you did.”

If we can say this gently, without arrogance, those of us who “lost” might find ourselves with an unprecedented opportunity to reach out – with energy, kindness, understanding, and even respect – to those experiencing a kind of misery that I think many never expected to be the consequences of their “victory.” If we can seize that opportunity with understanding and genuine concern, and ask, again and again, both of ourselves and others, how we can work together for out mutual good, some extraordinary things just might happen.

I would like to recommend the following for those who, like me, missed the way our country has been stolen because we weren’t paying attention: DARK MONEY by Jane Mayer, LISTEN, LIBERAL by Thomas Frank, WRAPPED IN THE FLAG by Claire Connor (because the current GOP playbook is extracted from the John Birch Society), and for those who don’t understand how the religious right has attained so much power, ONE NATION UNDER GOD by Kevin Kruse. Those four are an excellent crash course on what we can expect, and knowledge is power.

The unforgivable rubbish from republicans these past 8 years to de-legitimize President Obama.
This past year of horrific assault via the great Cheeto on anyone not white and protestant.

There is actually expectation the MAJORITY who voted Hillary and all abstaining for whatever reason, will bend over in acceptance of this grotesque pair?

Protests in the streets post election?

Gimme a break.

I will grant the same dedication and respect afforded President Obama these past 8 years. No better. No worse.

I read an opinion piece stating this is abberation of an election is actually “white lash” from a black president and potential woman president. Reaction to the inevitable “browning of America”, which will occur in the not too distant future.
The small handed barka lounger riding white men and their subordinate ladies are TERRIFIED.
SO go about your life, loving, laughing and understand life goes on.
No goose stepping.
#notmypresident

So we just burn everything down Now that makes sense. Maybe you should talk to them again!! I thought this was the expected actions of the Trump people not your people. Shame Shame This solves nothing only divides more. Show them your sensible side,the one that I have seen in you!!

Damn near all of Trump’s so-called platform isn’t feasible and despite his protests to the contrary, he knew it! His “people” are well armed and short tempered and it will not take much to set them off into the streets when they realize that not only will the not see fulfilled promises as of tomorrow but absolutely never!. Plus, if he appoints people around him with very bad reputations such as Christie and Gingrich, double the effect!

Civility, as I see it in this whole experience of running for and being elected as our President holds Donald J. Trump responsible for what he has said to disabled persons, degrading a war veteran who lost his life for this country, women …Oh he is so low when he shows his mind set of women!!! And on and on…. that is what I am working to release and get on with being a part of healing our nation have this slaughter of the America integrity and honesty. I do believe that our nation and all it stands for can recover from this and will in time. But what I hope is that Trump learns from his selfish ways and comes to realize he is not the only one who matters in Life.

From far away, I heard of the protests. In the end, they may not make any difference for these elections but I was uplifted by the young people wanting to get their voices heard. All is not lost. Indeed, a sleeping giant has been awaken. Hope things stay peaceful.

Helen, You said exactly what I was thinking. Yesterday morning I wanted to curl in a ball and escape from the world. Today I want to watch and protect the rights we have fought so hard for over the years. I will march, volunteer whatever it takes to win with love and compassion, intelligence and reason. I hope Thank You

I have been heartened by what you have written. I too believe people are shaking their heads over what happened. It shook everyone awake finally that their votes do count and now…maybe we needed a complete disaster to shake up both parties to realize this crap is real…all my children vote and listen to news and issues and not just on Facebook…

I am so saddened about this year’s election and what it bodes for the Supreme Court. I am generally negative about millennials (they don’t eat cereal because it’s too hard to clean up after?!), but if they voted as you say, there is hope. We need to get rid of the Electoral College – it seems to be the only way the Republicans can get elected. They lost the popular vote against Gore and H. Clinton, but won the White House.

Thank you Helen!!
First thing to remember is that this was a razor thin win – Ms Clinton appears to have won the popular vote.
Second thing is that while the number of eligible voters who came out to vote was high, the percentage who did vote was not:http://www.cosmopolitan.com/politics/a8265143/almost-half-eligible-voters-did-not-vote-election-2016/
I personally have a hard time with people who don’t vote but some of them actually have moderately decent arguments about why they think their vote does not matter so getting them engaged is worth working on.

This kind of win does not create a mandate no matter what the Rs say.
All that being said there are going to be a lot of fights coming up.

Choose 2 or 3 of the most important issues to yourselves and start studying now. Get ready to draw a line like ” you can’t repeal the ACA without replacing it with something better” and draw it deep and wide.
If you’re like me with totally red Congressional representation, you’ll get those stoopid “thank you for your interest but…” letters back but keep it up. We got one Senator so rattled here over excepting Alaska Native women from the protections VAWA she had to shift.

This win is a drag (well, actually worse than a drag ) but it was within the margin of polling error. Remember a lot of the doofs were already planning to make a Presidency for Ms Clinton a nightmare for the rest of us.
Let’s make this one a nightmare of failures for them and get some things done.
Keep a very strong watch on the “who” whatzizname picks as advisors and cabinet members- the current list is really bad. there’s gonna be some real problems with getting failed jerks like Gingrich back on scene- build and don’t let up the pressure to keep their idiocy in the sunlight.

Okay, Jo – Here we all are! Yesterday all I did was read emails, send a few, and “take a nap,” which was pretty much just lying there staring at the ceiling trying to figure out how I felt and let anything I was feeling just be there…

And today I woke up full of beans! Margaret’s post this morning certainly helped, as has all the “regrouping” expressed here, and loving commiseration from my wonderful, world-class, best-in-the-universe GFs – all of whom have also been suffering from “PETS”… Post Election Trauma Syndrome. (Just made that up; kinda like it. Could also be “Posts Election Trump Syndrome”…)

And I’m reminded again of a wonderful First American narrative, which I’ve shared previously here… A wise tribal elder is telling a young child, “We each have two ferocious wolves inside of us; both are strong and powerful, and both are always hungry. One is The Good Wolf, and the other is The Bad Wolf. These two Wolves are always battling each other, day and night, for control of our lives. They both know that only one of them will ultimately prevail, and neither is willing to give up…”

The child is understandably alarmed, and asks the wise elder, “But which Wolf will win?” And the wise elder replies, “The Wolf we feed.”

The great Cheeto won via Electoral College numbers.
Hillary took the popular vote.
Al Gore lost the same way.
The Cheeto tweeted in 2012 against the EC.
Does not change anything, but I feel better it is a minority that put him in and not the majority.
Hope springs eternal.
Carry on ladies.

Thank You for todays message that I have passed on to all my frightened friends. At83 I hoped to go down a Democrat and have been shattered by the election……which I call the Amerexit……but have a good friend in Britain just as shattered over Brexit to hold onto. For the time being I am in the corner of my room under my desk sucking my thumb and need your support. Strength In Numbers. Show me the light at the end of the tunnel……….???

What I believe I need to do now (and I’m not suggesting this approach is for everyone) is tune out all the negativity, all the nonsense, all the lies still lingering in the air. I’m focusing (with the help of many “red” and “blue” friends) on where we go from here. This country is great (didn’t need to be made great again, just sayin’…) but is not without its flaws. By focusing on and working toward making a difference in our own sphere, planting seeds of love and respect, touching one another’s lives in a loving and positive way, we can perhaps change the tenor of the country. Bitterness, hatred, bigotry, intolerance, downright stupidity…these attributes need to be addressed. Not from particular pulpits or star-studded stages, but right where each of us exists today…and tomorrow. Be sure these characteristics are GONE from each of us, then connect with those near us who need help shedding things as well. That’s the kind of work I’m ready to begin. Think about it…will this approach work for you? If not, perhaps another positive path is out there waiting for you to climb on board.

Woo Hoo day two and the sun came out. In this time of WTF just happened and trying to wrap my brain around all this I started reading posts on Facebook. So many comments have been visceral and telling them to leave the country is well……. just fucking stupid and doesn’t help. Stay strong and surround yourself with good friends. Have a potluck, talk about the future and boots on the ground. We will endure this too. Most of all do not be silent. I’m not posting on this crap again as it sure seems to add to the division we’re experiencing. I believe we are so much bigger than all this and if ya need friend go adopt a dog or cat or bird or bunny. Go buy extra underwear, socks, toilet paper, buy some seeds and get a garden going. Work on getting off the grid or on the grid in an easier way. Do something that makes you supremely happy…… We will dig out of this and in two years there is another chance to vote on Congress. In my heart of hearts I think these guys will implode. Didn’t Lao Tzu say Do nothing and everything gets done? Peace out America!

Gato,
I so agree with you. I have not been able to absorb or accept what has happened. And to expect President and Michelle Obama to meet and shake hands with the person who started the birther movement seems like asking too much of them. If the roles were reversed, I don’t believe Trump would show the same grace. Hillary’s speech yesterday was incredibly moving, and demonstrated what an exceptional person she is. This is the person who was rejectedr in favor of a spiteful, vain, egomaniac. My disgust and disappointment and despair feels like it will never go away. To watch three incredible people (Barack, Michelle and Hillary) leave the national stage is breaking my heart.

Thank you ladies! I am moving through the stages of grief and yesterday was my denial day. Now I’m good and mad. I and so many others worked so hard for Hillary. I’m mad at my friends who never “came out” because we live in a red state and they wanted more “likes” on facebook. Now we have to get to work. Sic ’em!

(For some reason, I just remembered one time when my seventy-plus-year-old mother accidentally put her favorite walking stick on top of her car, and then pulled out of the PIggly-Wiggly parking lot. The stick, of course, rolled off the roof and landed on the median of a four-lane highway. She pulled over and then, literally, crawled on her hands and knees across two lanes of traffic to retrieve the damn thing. Of course my brother and I admonished her severely, and told her she was crazy, but part of me just loved her for it… Still do!)

Yes; our country is not – at least not entirely – what many of us thought it was, and realizing that is indeed a bitter pill.

HOWEVER!! Wise souls know that WE CANNOT SOLVE A PROBLEM UNTIL WE SEE IT AND ACKNOWLEDGE IT. “Denial is at the bottom of all dysfunction.”

So now we know what so many have been trying to tell us for so long: We are NOT entirely a “post-racial” nation. A great many of us ARE still racists, ARE misogynists, ARE homophobes, ARE far less tolerant and inclusive than we like to tell ourselves we are. Now, as Margaret says, let’s get ourselves as together as we can, and get back to work…

How Obama could speak, publicly, the words “President-elect Trump” yesterday seemed almost incomprehensible to me; I certainly can’t yet do it. But he did, and it’s an undeniable confirmation of the kind of person he is. He and FLOTUS will welcome the Trump family to the White House, and they will be gracious, dignified, courteous, and even respectful. They will not be driven by their egos, their disappointment, their sorrow, their fears, or any anger they may have.

They will be able do that because they know that the situation – and the office, and the good of our country – are made better and stronger for it.

This is going to be hard for me to remember, but I am going to do my damnedest to do try.

In a few months I will be 77. I have some health problems and my fear was that I will not outlive a Trump administration. But if Margaret and Helen can do it, so can I. You inspire me to carry on and stick around. I may stagger but I’ll keep kicking.

Yesterday I said-“That’s it, I will never pour my heart and soul into a campaign again!” But you ladies inspire me and I agree, that I can’t give in and I can’t give up! I have to keep on fighting here in Ohio for the values I believe in and even though this state went shamefully red, I will continue the journey with you by my side and turn it back to blue-despite severe gerrymandering!

The list of what we now have to work for is long. And I am just starting to think about our National Parks and the possibility of selling them all off, about my social security being privatized, about the situation in North Dakota becoming even more ugly. So, so much to do!

This may still be my country, although it is becoming unrecognizable, but the orange one is NOT my president!

On Wed, Nov 9, 2016 at 8:39 PM, Margaret and Helen wrote:

> Helen Philpot posted: “Margaret, maybe we have this all wrong. Maybe the > big news didn’t happen on Tuesday. Maybe it was Wednesday. They say Trump > woke a sleeping giant, but maybe that giant didn’t wake up before the > election. Maybe it woke after the ele” >

I, too, fear for all of the social progress we have made over the last 45 years. Women are the most vulnerable with the distinct possibility of losing Roe v Wade…And then potentially face punishment for exercising the option to abort? And what about marriage equality?? Of course the list is lengthy and with this fundamentalist regime about to take over, this apricot brigrade, I, too, fear the worst.
Heaven help us all, ladies. Each and every one of us.

Suggest we do now what we should’ve been doing all along…keep an eye on the bastards. Darn near every single one of our Senators and Congressmen, no matter which party, are eventually bought and paid for by big money…oil, pharma, agribiz, insurance, banking, Wall Street…you name it.

We need to push hard for REAL campaign financing reform so Americans are never again in the position of having to choose between the lesser of two evils for our President…because either way we are forced to choose evil.

Thank you dear Goddesses, we will be watching and in 2018 we will then lift our voices in the ballot box. I love your comment on ” We are battle worn but not battle weary” This is a great nation with even greater people, and we the people have to ensure that the Big Three Republican machine in DC has some checks and balances, so the elected Democrats must do their job now more than ever. Stay strong my friends , the Universe has our back . Namaste 🙏🙏🙏

One bit of optimism is Barack Obama’s stated focus post-presidency to try and flip state legislatures before the 2020 census. That’s something real and doable we can all contribute to.
Love your blog, and I’m in for the duration…

This post is not about religion, but as a life-long Christian who has worked for justice and equality since I can’t remember when (’67 grad), I could NEVER vote for or support Donald Trump or anyone like him. It totally mystifies me how anyone with even minimal intelligence could not see through all this. Lights are on in Silverton OR.

Ladies, I’ll be with you as long as I am able. We need to step back, take a breath and come out fighting. First we rid ourselves of the outdated electorial collage. Why? This is at least the second time the real winner has had victory stolen away. Then we keep VOTING! But remember the GOP now can only point the finger of blame at itself. And things will go wrong. That’s life. Merde happens. Support local races that is imperative. We’ll come back stronger than ever.

” Our elected Dems need us now more than ever.”
Some need us and some need close monitoring! My congressman calls himself a “Red Dog Democrat.” He’s like an elephant in a donkey suit.
Let’s remember tha the DNC and it’s chicanery is what got us in tjis fix! We need tto rebuild the Demoratic party from the groud up.

> Helen Philpot posted: “Margaret, maybe we have this all wrong. Maybe the > big news didn’t happen on Tuesday. Maybe it was Wednesday. They say Trump > woke a sleeping giant, but maybe that giant didn’t wake up before the > election. Maybe it woke after the ele” >