City of Tiny Lights, forgotten about that one, that's got to be one of the definitive ones.

As for Peace Corps, I thought it was a general attack on hippie-ism, so I'm not so certain if the definitively anti-hippie WOIIFTM continues any blatant anti-drug messages or not. And Cosmik Debris, well that's more of an attack on gurus. Teenage Wind definitely applies with its glue sniffing and "extra rush with the headband" comments.

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

City of Tiny Lights, forgotten about that one, that's got to be one of the definitive ones.

As for Peace Corps, I thought it was a general attack on hippie-ism, so I'm not so certain if the definitively anti-hippie WOIIFTM continues any blatant anti-drug messages or not. And Cosmik Debris, well that's more of an attack on gurus. Teenage Wind definitely applies with its glue sniffing and "extra rush with the headband" comments.

"I'm really just a phony but forgive me 'cause I'm stoned Every town must have a place where phony hippies meet Psychedelic dungeons popping up on every street"

I admit it is not definitively anti-drug, but it is certainly anti-phony hippies who happen to be partaking in drugs.

_________________“The power of pop music to corrupt and putrify the minds of world youth are virtually limitless."

City of Tiny Lights, forgotten about that one, that's got to be one of the definitive ones.

As for Peace Corps, I thought it was a general attack on hippie-ism, so I'm not so certain if the definitively anti-hippie WOIIFTM continues any blatant anti-drug messages or not. And Cosmik Debris, well that's more of an attack on gurus. Teenage Wind definitely applies with its glue sniffing and "extra rush with the headband" comments.

I thought the line in Cosmic Debris, "So take your meditations an' your preparations and ram it up your snout" was a drug reference....We could ask GZ, but we'd probably then have to ask Trendy to translate the answer, then get Pope Jim to translate Trendy's response

When asked if he has any downers NMB's "character" replies, "No, I don't have anymore." There is not a blatant anti drug sentiment in this track. Making fun of burn outs is not necessarily the same thing as being anti drug.Not to nitpick.

Greggery Peccary has that bit about the hip water pipe. But again, that is not specifically anti drug. Zappa didn't preach in his music, which is another great thing about him.

One Zappa quote you don't see too much is the one where he says something like, "Drugs are fine for people who want to use them." As the 70s carnage wore on, Zappa changed his tune.

I thought the line in Cosmic Debris, "So take your meditations an' your preparations and ram it up your snout" was a drug reference....

The preparations may include drugs, but it also involves the pre-meditation incense burning, hand signals, and chants. I'm sure in the late 60's/early 70's that Frank had plenty of run ins with members of the California OTO. It was all the rage then.

On topic: I've always felt that "Turning Again" had a tinge of sarcasm pointed at ex-drug users.

The Downtown Talent Scout is a pretty special case in the catalog, because it seems to defend the kids who're "smoking dandelions". It could be construed as pro-drugs, at least not definitely anti. "Cause after all you look so freaky/How could anyone believe/That what you think and what you feel/Comes close at all to what is real." Frank doesn't go out of his way to condemn the drug use - that's not the point of the song.

Remember the note from WOIIFTM: "This whole monstrosity was conceived and executed by Frank Zappa as a result of some unpleasant premonitions August through September 1967". There's a before and after those premonitions, almost as definite as the schisms before and after the Rainbow Theatre incident and the falling-out with Herbie Cohen and Warner Bros. The Downtown Talent Scout is clearly from a more naïve period, before the mid to late Sixties premonitions.

When asked if he has any downers NMB's "character" replies, "No, I don't have anymore." There is not a blatant anti drug sentiment in this track. Making fun of burn outs is not necessarily the same thing as being anti drug.Not to nitpick.

The YAWYI version (with the opening verse continuing the "Charlie's" theme) is more clearly anti-drug than the original NMB/Estrada band version.

When asked if he has any downers NMB's "character" replies, "No, I don't have anymore." There is not a blatant anti drug sentiment in this track. Making fun of burn outs is not necessarily the same thing as being anti drug.Not to nitpick.

The YAWYI version (with the opening verse continuing the "Charlie's" theme) is more clearly anti-drug than the original NMB/Estrada band version.

Absolutely! I was in fact referring to the YAWYI version specifically.

_________________Lies are like quicksand, soft and comfortable, but they will swallow us. Truth is like bedrock, hard and uncomfortable, but we can always stand on it

The Downtown Talent Scout is a pretty special case in the catalog, because it seems to defend the kids who're "smoking dandelions". It could be construed as pro-drugs, at least not definitely anti. "Cause after all you look so freaky/How could anyone believe/That what you think and what you feel/Comes close at all to what is real." Frank doesn't go out of his way to condemn the drug use - that's not the point of the song.

Remember the note from WOIIFTM: "This whole monstrosity was conceived and executed by Frank Zappa as a result of some unpleasant premonitions August through September 1967". There's a before and after those premonitions, almost as definite as the schisms before and after the Rainbow Theatre incident and the falling-out with Herbie Cohen and Warner Bros. The Downtown Talent Scout is clearly from a more naive period, before the mid to late Sixties premonitions.

interesting discussion, thanks

smoking dandelions/dropping good 'n plenty refer to fake drugs, no abuse there; he's condemning wannabe dope fiends who can't tell real dope from sears dope, then get busted for their efforts ... at the other end of the scale, sniffing paper bags [glue or cutex ¿ ] is the worst kind of drug abuse one can self-inflict ... the line from the song doesn't reconcile with itself, other than all three - weeds, candy, & glue - are not illegal substances

big difference between '66 & '67; lsd was made illegal in the usa on oct-06-1966, the monthly dope-free freak-outs started by the mothers & franzoni in early '66 spawned many imitations in l.a. in mid-'66 [freak-ins, freak-offs, freak-ups, freak downs] that took on more of a dope theme, much to zappa's chagrin; he saw busts going down on the strip, cops breaking up the freak gatherings, narcs patrolling downtown

downtown talent scout is anti-drug scene, where the whole culture surrounding drugs & dope fiends becomes another primary target for the man ... not only do you get fucked up from drug use, you get busted for your troubles, narc'd out by the dts

l.a. free press, sept-oct 1966 has good coverage of this unfolding, check out zappa's reaction to what was going on, his scathing retaliation to the z&z dope ad referring to the moi, & his dismal opinion of all the freak-out imitators, then zappa gets lampooned in response

The YAWYI version (with the opening verse continuing the "Charlie's" theme) is more clearly anti-drug than the original NMB/Estrada band version.

Absolutely! I was in fact referring to the YAWYI version specifically.

Okay. My mistake. I love the 20 minute Vancouver 1975 version with the whole Canadian Customs bit. Naturally, as a fan of that version (which I heard first), I was disappointed with the YAWYI version and have not listened to it in a long time. Either way, I was just nitpicking.

And thanks for reminding me that it's Estrada and NMB singing together on "No, I don't have anymore". In fact Brock is the one asking the question as well.

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