If You Ruled The World, How Would You Handle Copyright? - Think Atheist2018-02-22T05:26:35Zhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/forum/topics/if-you-ruled-the-world-how-would-you-handle-copyright?commentId=1982180%3AComment%3A1250228&xg_source=activity&feed=yes&xn_auth=noMy perspective is that of the…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-22:1982180:Comment:12501832013-01-22T01:24:14.074ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>My perspective is that of the creator. If someone sells their copyright to a corporation, that's their right. They have made their bed and can lie in it. More and more bands are hanging onto their material and marketing it themselves. More and more writers are marketing their works themselves.</p>
<p>As a writer, I don't want my right to my works to go away after a period of time and I've never heard a convincing argument for why copyright should terminate. I made it; it's my property; it…</p>
<p>My perspective is that of the creator. If someone sells their copyright to a corporation, that's their right. They have made their bed and can lie in it. More and more bands are hanging onto their material and marketing it themselves. More and more writers are marketing their works themselves.</p>
<p>As a writer, I don't want my right to my works to go away after a period of time and I've never heard a convincing argument for why copyright should terminate. I made it; it's my property; it should belong to me and/or my heirs. </p>
<p>It's wrong for corporations to take a folk tale, for example, and copyright something they didn't actually invent. In fact, it's scandalous if that's actually legal.</p>
<p>Likewise, if someone violates my copyright by making a single illegal copy, I don't want to impoverish them or have them spending prison time. No more than if they stole some small item from me. If they turn around and start marketing it to their profit, well then the stakes should be higher of course.</p> If I were caught, the fair th…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-22:1982180:Comment:12503132013-01-22T01:05:51.102ZAkshay Bisthttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AkshayBist
<blockquote><p><span>If I were caught, the fair thing to do would be to make me pay the cost of all those songs(market price, not some arbitrary huge value which) <strong>and a fine</strong></span></p>
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<p><span>So what I proposed was not just the market value of the infringed items. It would be a fine, and it would be variable, depending upon the scale and intention of the infringement. Personal use - small fine. To sell bootlegs - bigger fine, and so on.</span></p>
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<blockquote><p><span>If I were caught, the fair thing to do would be to make me pay the cost of all those songs(market price, not some arbitrary huge value which) <strong>and a fine</strong></span></p>
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<p><span>So what I proposed was not just the market value of the infringed items. It would be a fine, and it would be variable, depending upon the scale and intention of the infringement. Personal use - small fine. To sell bootlegs - bigger fine, and so on.</span></p>
<p></p> Then corporations will, inste…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-22:1982180:Comment:12502282013-01-22T01:00:30.408ZAkshay Bisthttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AkshayBist
<p>Then corporations will, instead of buying the rights, will licence the rights, sometimes exclusive licences, sometimes ones they can transfer, and/or sublicence. Pretty much the same thing as it is now. And we'd be in the same mess as we're in now.</p>
<p>Then corporations will, instead of buying the rights, will licence the rights, sometimes exclusive licences, sometimes ones they can transfer, and/or sublicence. Pretty much the same thing as it is now. And we'd be in the same mess as we're in now.</p> I think you've hit on an impo…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12501682013-01-21T21:20:53.250ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>I think you've hit on an important distinction, which is between actual persons and persons by legal art (artificial persons aka corporations). A corporation should be able to hold a copyright for 10 years and then renew it only by appealing to a Federal court where the corporation could make an argument for a 5 year renewal and those opposed to the renewal could argue against it in the public interest.</p>
<p>Flesh and blood persons should have their creative output treated much the same as…</p>
<p>I think you've hit on an important distinction, which is between actual persons and persons by legal art (artificial persons aka corporations). A corporation should be able to hold a copyright for 10 years and then renew it only by appealing to a Federal court where the corporation could make an argument for a 5 year renewal and those opposed to the renewal could argue against it in the public interest.</p>
<p>Flesh and blood persons should have their creative output treated much the same as real property which is theirs unless they sell it and if it is in their hands when they die becomes part of their estate like any other property (house, land, automobile, etc.).</p>
<p>At some point we, the people, have to get serious about establishing that corporations are NOT persons under the law.</p>
<p>An added wrinkle is that copyright is hybrid law, part U.S. law and part adhering to an international treaty, so getting something done may mean either working for changes to the international agreement or opting out of it entirely, which would expose our copyrighted works to dangers abroad.</p> I agree that the fines levied…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12502122013-01-21T20:40:33.408ZAndrewhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Andrew338
<p>I agree that the fines levied for pirated songs are outrageous, but they should definitely be higher than the market value of the songs. Otherwise there would be no incentive to actually buy the songs! People would just pirate them, and the worst case scenario would be being forced to pay for them.</p>
<p>Definitely the industry needs more <em>consistent</em> enforcement, though. To not prosecute millions of people, and then make up for your losses by charging some housewife $987651968463251…</p>
<p>I agree that the fines levied for pirated songs are outrageous, but they should definitely be higher than the market value of the songs. Otherwise there would be no incentive to actually buy the songs! People would just pirate them, and the worst case scenario would be being forced to pay for them.</p>
<p>Definitely the industry needs more <em>consistent</em> enforcement, though. To not prosecute millions of people, and then make up for your losses by charging some housewife $987651968463251 is outrageously unjust. See this comic: <a href="http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=2849#comic" target="_blank">http://www.smbc-comics.com/index.php?db=comics&amp;id=2849#comic</a> </p> Intellectual property fades i…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12500672013-01-21T20:31:06.685ZAndrewhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Andrew338
<p>Intellectual property fades into the public domain for a reason: because it provides the greatest benefit to society when it is ultimately shared. A house cannot be shared amongst every human in the world, but a song/movie/invention can. It's not a case of trying to make all ownership logically consistent, but trying to make the world a better place.</p>
<p>It's also a practical issue: how do you determine the difference b/t infringement and inspiration, when there are thousands of years of…</p>
<p>Intellectual property fades into the public domain for a reason: because it provides the greatest benefit to society when it is ultimately shared. A house cannot be shared amongst every human in the world, but a song/movie/invention can. It's not a case of trying to make all ownership logically consistent, but trying to make the world a better place.</p>
<p>It's also a practical issue: how do you determine the difference b/t infringement and inspiration, when there are thousands of years of artistic work to compare against? It is easiest to only deal with works made in the past 40 (or so) years, whose authors are still alive. But of course, the first paragraph above is the main reason</p> i hold strong opinions on a l…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12502072013-01-21T20:24:10.406ZAndrewhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Andrew338
<p>i hold strong opinions on a lot of things, but copyright law is one of those things where I JUST DON'T KNOW. I don't think there is a correct answer, it's just a complicated situation.</p>
<p>That being said, there should be shorter limits on how long a copyright can last, especially for corporations. Disney borrows old folk tales, copyrights them, and then has them in the bag (practically) forever? These things need to expire. Corporations are not people, not in the copyright-ownership…</p>
<p>i hold strong opinions on a lot of things, but copyright law is one of those things where I JUST DON'T KNOW. I don't think there is a correct answer, it's just a complicated situation.</p>
<p>That being said, there should be shorter limits on how long a copyright can last, especially for corporations. Disney borrows old folk tales, copyrights them, and then has them in the bag (practically) forever? These things need to expire. Corporations are not people, not in the copyright-ownership respect at least.</p> It would also solve the issue…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12497442013-01-21T05:50:55.553ZSteveInCOhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/SteveInCO
<p>It would also solve the issue of copyrighted works where no one can find the owner to arrange for royalty payments (it might, for example, be a totally defunct corporation). They might as well be abandoned property BUT the current law doesn't allow for that.</p>
<p>It would also solve the issue of copyrighted works where no one can find the owner to arrange for royalty payments (it might, for example, be a totally defunct corporation). They might as well be abandoned property BUT the current law doesn't allow for that.</p> Once it goes into the public…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12498282013-01-21T05:15:39.798ZUnseenhttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/Unseen
<p>Once it goes into the public domain you, definitionally, lose ownership.</p>
<p>I see your reasoning, though. One would retain an interest only as long as one maintains interest.</p>
<p>Once it goes into the public domain you, definitionally, lose ownership.</p>
<p>I see your reasoning, though. One would retain an interest only as long as one maintains interest.</p> what about if the FBI discov…tag:www.thinkatheist.com,2013-01-21:1982180:Comment:12499922013-01-21T05:10:00.620ZAkshay Bisthttp://www.thinkatheist.com/profile/AkshayBist
<blockquote><p><span> what about if the FBI discovered you had 500 unpaid for songs on your MP3 player?</span></p>
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<p><span>If I were caught, the fair thing to do would be to make me pay the cost of all those songs(market price, not some arbitrary huge value which) and a fine - all going to the content creator/owner.<br></br></span></p>
<blockquote><p><span><span>not all copyrights are held by big corporations.</span></span></p>
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<p>Yes, but the most aggressive,…</p>
<blockquote><p><span> what about if the FBI discovered you had 500 unpaid for songs on your MP3 player?</span></p>
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<p><span>If I were caught, the fair thing to do would be to make me pay the cost of all those songs(market price, not some arbitrary huge value which) and a fine - all going to the content creator/owner.<br/></span></p>
<blockquote><p><span><span>not all copyrights are held by big corporations.</span></span></p>
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<p>Yes, but the most aggressive, and idiotic type of enforcement is done by big corporations. And that kind of harassment is something I'd like to see blocked. When I say exploit, I mean exploitation both by the holder and by the general public. There was one case where the troll wanted $75trillion for ~11000 infringements. This is something that should never happen.</p>
<p>I think this quote from an <a href="http://falkvinge.net/2012/12/07/the-pirate-bay-is-the-worlds-most-efficient-public-library/" target="_blank">article</a> is pretty deep -</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>If free and open access to all of human knowledge at the push of a button truly prevents our society’s beloved artists, authors, thinkers, and other creative people from putting food on their tables, then maybe it’s time to rethink how to put food on their tables.</strong></p>
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