I really don't see where all the Angelo hate comes from. He drafted and held onto one of the best LBs in the game, he drafted and held onto a very good RB, put together a reasonably priced extremely good D year after year, got them to the playoffs, and seemed to fill every position on the field for a bargain, but never found his Qb.

I don't see what the issue is, and I certainly can't see how you can compare him to Matt Millen.

My take on it (after listening to a lot of Chicago sports talk radio) is that it was Lovie's coaching that kept them performing at a high level. Hence the reason I'd like to have him as a coach here.

C'mon, it was Lovie's coaching that kept Urlacher on par? His coaching that made Briggs a pro-bowler and Briggs' "love for Lovie" that kept Briggs around? Sorry... You're fishin'...

Lovie may have been inspirational, but regardless of whatever coordinator you paired him with, and he's had multiple OCs and DCs, he's never been able to get the job done, period. So, whose fault is it?

January 4th, 2013, 1:38 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4194Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lovie!?!

wjb21ndtown wrote:

conversion02 wrote:

And he had a millen-esque GM in Angelo for far too long

I really don't see where all the Angelo hate comes from. He drafted and held onto one of the best LBs in the game, he drafted and held onto a very good RB, put together a reasonably priced extremely good D year after year, got them to the playoffs, and seemed to fill every position on the field for a bargain, but never found his Qb.

I don't see what the issue is, and I certainly can't see how you can compare him to Matt Millen.

Uh Angelo was going to let forte walk. Him being fired is why they were able to retain forte. He blew 2 first rd picks on a cutler who frankly wasn't worth 1 IMO. He drafted a de because he could jump out a pool unassisted....do I need to go on? No one is as bad as Millen, but aside from a few lucky hits ( ala cj) he sucked at drafting.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

January 4th, 2013, 7:47 pm

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10863Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Lovie!?!

Angelo only had an eye for defensive talent...oh wait, those defensive gems were largely lovie and Ron riviera's calls. Angelo was terrible. Rivera had a large input on the talent scouting while he was there. He didn't make the call, but his input was widely respected and weighed.

Angelo only had an eye for defensive talent...oh wait, those defensive gems were largely lovie and Ron riviera's calls. Angelo was terrible. Rivera had a large input on the talent scouting while he was there. He didn't make the call, but his input was widely respected and weighed.

I'll give you Michael Haynes, he was a horrible pick and never amounted to much. Grossman was a mistake, but like I said, they were reaching for their Qb his entire tenure. (Both of those picks were in the same draft too, I wonder if he was tanked when making his picks!)

Mark Bradley was a speedster WR that never panned out, but he did have a bad injury his rookie year. That said, he was a 2nd round pick with a load of speed (4.3 speed). I wouldn't kill Angelo too badly for his miss on Bradley. Dan Bazuin and Marc Colombo were also injury casualties. I don't know whether or not they were injury prone or had injuries in college, so I can't really say if they were bad "picks" or not. Injuries happen. When they come out of the blue (Leshoure), I don't fault any GM for them happening.

Benson is sort of an enigma to me. I think the guy had talent, but he was never happy in Chicago. I don't know if it's how they were using him, or if he was bent about his first contract, or what the deal was, but he did flourish in Cinnci. He would have had four straight 1,000 yard seasons if he didn't get hurt his first year there. I can't say he was a bad draft pick, but maybe he was mistreated in his signing? I don't think anyone without inside information can say whether or not Angelo messed that one up.

Bernard Berrian was a black mark? He had over 2,000 total yards for the Bears and 13 TDs, out of a 3rd round pick! He was their number 1 WR his last year in Chicago, and that's a black mark? I don't get it.

Then he went on to sign a decent sized deal with Minny, he cost them a pile of money, and is now out of football leaving Minny holding the bag. I'd say he was a pretty good Bear.

Put in perspective, I'd say he did pretty decent. He stacks up better than Mayhew, IMO.

January 5th, 2013, 7:35 pm

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10863Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Lovie!?!

Benson was more tentative about hitting holes than leshoure, and people here damn near want to axe the guy.

Berrian had average #1 year and 1 average # 2 year. he was terrible his first 2 years there. People bitch about Nate and his production, but berrian did much less. I guess you can't count it as a black mark, especially when minny gave him 6 yr $42M.

He's also made picks like Garrett Wolfe, mike okwo (ok who?), dusty dvoracek, Marcus Robinson, Jarrod Gilbert, etc. awful 3rd round picks where people around here think a 3rd rounder should be starting. These guys barely cracked spot duty on the bears. Those are all 3rd round picks.

Either way, I didn't make a who's worse post, I just pointed out that his picks have been millen-esque and rattled off a handful of absolute turd picks he made. All GMs make bad picks. Living in Chicago I get to see all the bears failures up first hand.

______________________Draft defense - CB, LB, DT, LB...WR/KR

January 5th, 2013, 8:03 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lovie!?!

conversion02 wrote:

Benson was more tentative about hitting holes than leshoure, and people here damn near want to axe the guy.

Berrian had average #1 year and 1 average # 2 year. he was terrible his first 2 years there. People bitch about Nate and his production, but berrian did much less. I guess you can't count it as a black mark, especially when minny gave him 6 yr $42M.

Either way, I didn't make a who's worse post, I just said his picks have been millen-esque and rattled off a handful of absolute turd picks he made

I'd agree with that level of production out of Barrian (1 average year as a #1, 1 average year as a #2), but like I said, 3rd round pick... I'll take that all day every day.

All in all I can't say that Angelo's productivity was as bad as Millen's, and I'd still say he's better than Mayhew.

That said, I don't see the love for Lovie. I can't stand his game plan, lack of imagination (their use of Hester alone is down right criminal), or his time management. I just don't get what people think that Lovie does so well.

January 5th, 2013, 8:06 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Lovie!?!

This is incredibly interesting conversation, from my point of view. A lot of things that aren't right in the past several posts... mostly about Angelos' picks.

- Ron Rivera absolutely did not hold any sway over the draft. Ever. Lovie influenced Angelo - but no way did Chico. Chico was forced on Lovie by the McCaskeys when he was hired, and he got rid of Chico as soon as possible.- Mark Bradley was injured in college (only played ~ 12 games or something). JA fell in love with one video/play of Bradley from that year that OK had all those WRs drafted (making it look like they were deep in talent, and that's why Bradley didn't have more catches/TDs)... and that raised Bradley's stock.- Dan Bazine did not have an injury in the NFL. He was just a terrible reach/pick. The story on him is, he was one of those guys who come to camp & within a day or two everyone knows he can't play at that level. Biggest 2nd round bust in JA's tenure.- Grossman wasn't a bad pick, but he was injury plagued, and as it turned out like to throw the ball to the other team. A lot of QBs do that. There have been a lot worse first round QB picks.- Cutler wasn't a waste of 2 #1 picks ... That's just bear hater talk, and makes no sense. He's the best QB the Bears have had. Sure, he needs to protect the ball better, but he's easily good enough to lead the team & win a superbowl if all the other pieces are in place. That might be the best move JA ever made. Phil Emery thinks this too. - Angelo was certainly not going to let Forte go. That's silly. Forte was going to hold out until late & then sign. That's what happened. - Bernard Berrian was a nice WR for the Bears, but it would have been stupid of them to pay Berrian what the Vikes did. That happens.- The reason the Benson pick was bad isn't because Benson couldn't run. It was because the Bears then chose to keep him over Thomas Jones. When they had both guys, the Bears had a fearsome running attack. So naturally, JA traded Jones (dumbarse). - Dvoracek was a good pick and showed a lot, but was injured & never recovered. That's what happened with Harris too... although he played longer. That was a problem with Angelo... picking guys who were injury prone, and hoping to get a draft steal. Most of those busted out.

Now on the subject of Lovie. He deserved to be fired. He was casual about the packer loss and the swoon after going 7-1, and was never accountable. That said, he'd be a vast improvement over Schwartz, and would likely do wonders with a few of the talented head cases on the team that get zero help from the current guy.

January 5th, 2013, 9:48 pm

wjb21ndtown

Re: Lovie!?!

So you're saying that the Bears placed an uninjured guy on injury reserve? (Dan Bazuine)

He was put on IR September of the year he was drafted, and had surgery on his knee. I'm doubting that the guy had an unnecessary surgery, and that the Bears IRed him a month after the season started and gave up on him that quickly.

The rest of your post, I agree with. I wanted to defend the Grossman pick more, but I don't have the knowledge, and wasn't going to do the research. He did play a good amount of games for the Bears and showed promise at times. Still, I think he was ultimately too short to really succeed in the NFL and shouldn't have went as high as he did.

January 5th, 2013, 11:42 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4886Location: WSU

Re: Lovie!?!

wjb21ndtown wrote:

So you're saying that the Bears placed an uninjured guy on injury reserve? (Dan Bazuine)

He was put on IR September of the year he was drafted, and had surgery on his knee. I'm doubting that the guy had an unnecessary surgery, and that the Bears IRed him a month after the season started and gave up on him that quickly.

bazuine had surgery prior to the opener in both of his first two seasons. injuries were a major problem for him and prevented him from having much of a chance to succeed.

January 6th, 2013, 11:37 am

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4886Location: WSU

Re: Lovie!?!

Quote:

- Ron Rivera absolutely did not hold any sway over the draft. Ever. Lovie influenced Angelo - but no way did Chico. Chico was forced on Lovie by the McCaskeys when he was hired, and he got rid of Chico as soon as possible.

How can you be so sure? Rivera was a hire by Angelo bc Lovie didnt have enough contacts to find his own assistants. its well known that him and Angelo have a strong relationship - to the point where many were speculating that Carolina would hire Angelo to GM bc Rivera is the head coach there. Its not unreasonable to think that Rivera had some influence in the draft. Usually a team s entire coaching staff is involved at some level in the draft process, they arent just sitting around idle. Lovie ultimately had some sort of power struggle with Rivera and they let him go when Rivera stock was at its highest and was actually interviewing for head coaching jobs at the time.

Quote:

- Mark Bradley was injured in college (only played ~ 12 games or something). JA fell in love with one video/play of Bradley from that year that OK had all those WRs drafted (making it look like they were deep in talent, and that's why Bradley didn't have more catches/TDs)... and that raised Bradley's stock.

Bradley was a college DB that played some offense and returned some kicks. He was eventually moved to WR full time on a great college team - was fairly productive but then lit the NFL combine on fire w a 4.3, 40 yd dash and 39 inch vertical . That raised and substantiated his stock as much as anything else.

Quote:

- Dan Bazine did not have an injury in the NFL. He was just a terrible reach/pick. The story on him is, he was one of those guys who come to camp & within a day or two everyone knows he can't play at that level. Biggest 2nd round bust in JA's tenure.

He had surgery in camp two years in a row. Hard to argue that injuries didnt limit his opportunities.

Quote:

- Grossman wasn't a bad pick, but he was injury plagued, and as it turned out like to throw the ball to the other team. A lot of QBs do that. There have been a lot worse first round QB picks.

When someone is a 1st rd pick at QB to a franchinse without an established QB in place then its usually disappointing when it takes that person 4 seasons to assume the starting job. Even then, its bad when he cant complete more than 55% of his passes, has a QB rating in the 70s, turns it over close to 2 times/game and only holds the starting job for a season and a half despite having both a running game and a strong defense to support him. Yes, there have been worse 1st rd QB picks, but without doubt Grossman was a bad pick.

Quote:

- Cutler wasn't a waste of 2 #1 picks ... That's just bear hater talk, and makes no sense. He's the best QB the Bears have had. Sure, he needs to protect the ball better, but he's easily good enough to lead the team & win a superbowl if all the other pieces are in place. That might be the best move JA ever made. Phil Emery thinks this too.

I agree, Cutler is the best QB they ve had. They also gave up Kyle Orton and a 3rd pick in addition to the two 1st rd picks. They needed to make the trade but the negotiation skills to give up that much should still be questioned. Landing him was good, but not being able to protect him or bring in enough quality players around him is also part of that trade and maybe something they didnt think about enough when handing over the farm for Cutler. As good as he is Cutler isnt exactly Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

Quote:

- Angelo was certainly not going to let Forte go. That's silly. Forte was going to hold out until late & then sign. That's what happened.

Well he certainly paid Michael Bush more than what a goalline back would typically get while Forte was holding out. Of course that assumes that Bush was brought on to be just a goalline back rather than a strong insurance policy in case the Forte thing ended in a good trade for the Bears.

Quote:

- Bernard Berrian was a nice WR for the Bears, but it would have been stupid of them to pay Berrian what the Vikes did. That happens.

Agree, Berrian was a productive player for the Bears but not elite.

Quote:

- The reason the Benson pick was bad isn't because Benson couldn't run. It was because the Bears then chose to keep him over Thomas Jones. When they had both guys, the Bears had a fearsome running attack. So naturally, JA traded Jones (dumbarse).

agree, Jones had a lot left when they made the trade and Benson wasnt the fluid athlete that Jones was. They traded Jones to move up 26 picks in the 2nd round then traded that pick to move back 25 picks (Bezouin - bust) and acquired an additional 3rd rd pick (Garret Wolfe - short lived scat back), 5th rd pick (Kevin Payne - S, had a good year as a starter but then injured) and a 3rd pick following season (Marcus Harrison - DT started for about half a season). Anyway they got a lot of picks but mostly missed on the picks they got for Jones. The Chargers got Eric Weddle Pro Bowl safety with the pick the Bears got from the Jets for Jones.

Quote:

- Dvoracek was a good pick and showed a lot, but was injured & never recovered. That's what happened with Harris too... although he played longer. That was a problem with Angelo... picking guys who were injury prone, and hoping to get a draft steal. Most of those busted out.

true, he was injured for two years before he got to play

Quote:

Now on the subject of Lovie. He deserved to be fired. He was casual about the packer loss and the swoon after going 7-1, and was never accountable. That said, he'd be a vast improvement over Schwartz, and would likely do wonders with a few of the talented head cases on the team that get zero help from the current guy.

Teams often regret firing coaches after having a nice record. See Marty Schottenheimer, Chargers; Steve Mariucci, 49ers or even Gary Moeller, Lions. Lovie held things together for a while was and is an above average NFL head coach. I think he made a lot of strange decisions during games but his defense usually bailed him out - maybe because of the confidence he had in them. I agree he d a vast improvement over the stubborn and emotional Schwartz. Still I think the Lions problems in 2012 were more related to there offense and bad executive decisions from coach Schwartz, areas where Im not sure Lovie was particularly strong.

January 6th, 2013, 1:30 pm

regularjoe12

Off. Coordinator – Jim Bob Cooter

Joined: March 30th, 2006, 12:48 amPosts: 4194Location: Davison Mi

Re: Lovie!?!

I.e. I have to argue with you about cutler. at the time you had orton, who was playing very solid football, but had only berrian to throw the ball to. Instead of addressing an aging line or getting weapons for a qb's to throw to, Angelo traded 2 firstS ( and a 3rd of 4th) for an inconsistant guy with an already proven shaky temperament. And then Never went after anyone to become a quality wr for him to throw to. Knox was a #2 at best and Hester should have never been asked to be more than a #3.

In that offense, and considering your defense, Orton was the guy to keep. Orton didn't throw the ball away like Cutler does. cutler has lost you guys more games thn he took on his shoulders and won. Even this year some of his good games would be more on Marshall's shoulders than his. He was simply not worth the trade IMO. He's reckless with the ball, and when he gets frustrated stops throwing the ball and just starts chucking it. The guy does more harm than good, and until your front office starts to see that and they go get a guy with more consistency, they will never take the division from GB.

_________________2013 Lionbacker Fantasy Football Champion

January 6th, 2013, 2:05 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Lovie!?!

The Legend wrote:

Quote:

- Ron Rivera absolutely did not hold any sway over the draft. Ever. Lovie influenced Angelo - but no way did Chico. Chico was forced on Lovie by the McCaskeys when he was hired, and he got rid of Chico as soon as possible.

How can you be so sure? Rivera was a hire by Angelo bc Lovie didnt have enough contacts to find his own assistants. its well known that him and Angelo have a strong relationship - to the point where many were speculating that Carolina would hire Angelo to GM bc Rivera is the head coach there. Its not unreasonable to think that Rivera had some influence in the draft. Usually a team s entire coaching staff is involved at some level in the draft process, they arent just sitting around idle. Lovie ultimately had some sort of power struggle with Rivera and they let him go when Rivera stock was at its highest and was actually interviewing for head coaching jobs at the time.

Quote:

- Mark Bradley was injured in college (only played ~ 12 games or something). JA fell in love with one video/play of Bradley from that year that OK had all those WRs drafted (making it look like they were deep in talent, and that's why Bradley didn't have more catches/TDs)... and that raised Bradley's stock.

Bradley was a college DB that played some offense and returned some kicks. He was eventually moved to WR full time on a great college team - was fairly productive but then lit the NFL combine on fire w a 4.3, 40 yd dash and 39 inch vertical . That raised and substantiated his stock as much as anything else.

Quote:

- Dan Bazine did not have an injury in the NFL. He was just a terrible reach/pick. The story on him is, he was one of those guys who come to camp & within a day or two everyone knows he can't play at that level. Biggest 2nd round bust in JA's tenure.

He had surgery in camp two years in a row. Hard to argue that injuries didnt limit his opportunities.

Quote:

- Grossman wasn't a bad pick, but he was injury plagued, and as it turned out like to throw the ball to the other team. A lot of QBs do that. There have been a lot worse first round QB picks.

When someone is a 1st rd pick at QB to a franchinse without an established QB in place then its usually disappointing when it takes that person 4 seasons to assume the starting job. Even then, its bad when he cant complete more than 55% of his passes, has a QB rating in the 70s, turns it over close to 2 times/game and only holds the starting job for a season and a half despite having both a running game and a strong defense to support him. Yes, there have been worse 1st rd QB picks, but without doubt Grossman was a bad pick.

Quote:

- Cutler wasn't a waste of 2 #1 picks ... That's just bear hater talk, and makes no sense. He's the best QB the Bears have had. Sure, he needs to protect the ball better, but he's easily good enough to lead the team & win a superbowl if all the other pieces are in place. That might be the best move JA ever made. Phil Emery thinks this too.

I agree, Cutler is the best QB they ve had. They also gave up Kyle Orton and a 3rd pick in addition to the two 1st rd picks. They needed to make the trade but the negotiation skills to give up that much should still be questioned. Landing him was good, but not being able to protect him or bring in enough quality players around him is also part of that trade and maybe something they didnt think about enough when handing over the farm for Cutler. As good as he is Cutler isnt exactly Peyton Manning or Tom Brady.

Quote:

- Angelo was certainly not going to let Forte go. That's silly. Forte was going to hold out until late & then sign. That's what happened.

Well he certainly paid Michael Bush more than what a goalline back would typically get while Forte was holding out. Of course that assumes that Bush was brought on to be just a goalline back rather than a strong insurance policy in case the Forte thing ended in a good trade for the Bears.

Quote:

- Bernard Berrian was a nice WR for the Bears, but it would have been stupid of them to pay Berrian what the Vikes did. That happens.

Agree, Berrian was a productive player for the Bears but not elite.

Quote:

- The reason the Benson pick was bad isn't because Benson couldn't run. It was because the Bears then chose to keep him over Thomas Jones. When they had both guys, the Bears had a fearsome running attack. So naturally, JA traded Jones (dumbarse).

agree, Jones had a lot left when they made the trade and Benson wasnt the fluid athlete that Jones was. They traded Jones to move up 26 picks in the 2nd round then traded that pick to move back 25 picks (Bezouin - bust) and acquired an additional 3rd rd pick (Garret Wolfe - short lived scat back), 5th rd pick (Kevin Payne - S, had a good year as a starter but then injured) and a 3rd pick following season (Marcus Harrison - DT started for about half a season). Anyway they got a lot of picks but mostly missed on the picks they got for Jones. The Chargers got Eric Weddle Pro Bowl safety with the pick the Bears got from the Jets for Jones.

Quote:

- Dvoracek was a good pick and showed a lot, but was injured & never recovered. That's what happened with Harris too... although he played longer. That was a problem with Angelo... picking guys who were injury prone, and hoping to get a draft steal. Most of those busted out.

true, he was injured for two years before he got to play

Quote:

Now on the subject of Lovie. He deserved to be fired. He was casual about the packer loss and the swoon after going 7-1, and was never accountable. That said, he'd be a vast improvement over Schwartz, and would likely do wonders with a few of the talented head cases on the team that get zero help from the current guy.

Teams often regret firing coaches after having a nice record. See Marty Schottenheimer, Chargers; Steve Mariucci, 49ers or even Gary Moeller, Lions. Lovie held things together for a while was and is an above average NFL head coach. I think he made a lot of strange decisions during games but his defense usually bailed him out - maybe because of the confidence he had in them. I agree he d a vast improvement over the stubborn and emotional Schwartz. Still I think the Lions problems in 2012 were more related to there offense and bad executive decisions from coach Schwartz, areas where Im not sure Lovie was particularly strong.

Look - I'm a long-time Bear fan & know what I'm talking about ...not just speculating. This stuff is absolutely true, like it or not:

- Rivera's relationship was with the McCaskeys, and not JA... and he was forced on Lovie from the start because of Lovie's inexperience. That is why Lovie thought of him as a threat. Same with Ron Turner, who was also forced on JA after the Terry Shea debacle- As far as I know, Bradley didn't play anything but WR in college - even Pine Bluff before he transferred to OK. That DB comment was the first I've ever heard of that - ever. He was a track star, and had very little playing time or stats before he was drafted by JA to try to bring speed to the offense (same reason Berrian was drafted). Bradley was hurt a lot in college, and then again in the pros. He was talented, with bad knees. - If Michigan people want to believe Dan Bazuine was a good potential NFL player because he was IRed... then fine. Yes - Lovie had a history of IR-ing rookies REGULARLY, to redshirt them. Did he have his knee scoped? Who knows & who cares. If you listen to ex-Bears, coaches or reporters like Zak Zaidman on talk radio talking about the guy... he was a terrible pick. Maybe Angelos worst ever. He cannot be compared to Dvoracek, who was an injury risk coming out of college, showed some really good flashes at NG in the pros, but then injuries continued to take him down.

I won't argue that some teams have regretted letting coaches go. That may turn out to be the case with Lovie - but I doubt it. His in-game management was indeed bizarre and absurdly stubborn. He drove the fans nuts. And his inability to get something going on offense for basically his entire tenure... well, that is not what today's NFL is all about. And before anyone suggests bringing in a better OC... they TRIED! Potential OCs completely shunned the Bears while Lovie was HC. Instead, they had to settle for Martz and Tice. Nobody wanted the OC job - and to me that says something about Lovie more than anything.

January 6th, 2013, 8:34 pm

I.E.

Walk On

Joined: September 11th, 2010, 10:19 pmPosts: 408

Re: Lovie!?!

regularjoe12 wrote:

I.e. I have to argue with you about cutler. at the time you had orton, who was playing very solid football, but had only berrian to throw the ball to. Instead of addressing an aging line or getting weapons for a qb's to throw to, Angelo traded 2 firstS ( and a 3rd of 4th) for an inconsistant guy with an already proven shaky temperament. And then Never went after anyone to become a quality wr for him to throw to. Knox was a #2 at best and Hester should have never been asked to be more than a #3.

In that offense, and considering your defense, Orton was the guy to keep. Orton didn't throw the ball away like Cutler does. cutler has lost you guys more games thn he took on his shoulders and won. Even this year some of his good games would be more on Marshall's shoulders than his. He was simply not worth the trade IMO. He's reckless with the ball, and when he gets frustrated stops throwing the ball and just starts chucking it. The guy does more harm than good, and until your front office starts to see that and they go get a guy with more consistency, they will never take the division from GB.

I didn't have Orton - the Bears did.

I loved Kyle Orton on the Bears, and preferred him over Grossman. He may be one of the best backup QBs in the league. But he's not the kind of guy that can lead most teams to the SB... at least I don't think so. I used to speculate that he'll have a long career like Chris Chandler, and eventually settle with a really good all-around team and make some playoff runs. We'll see.

I thought at the time they should have kept Orton to back up Cutler... and was kind of proved right, with the Bear QB debacle last year. But I suppose JA wanted to avoid Chicago meathead fans from calling for Orton every time Cutler committed a turnover.

January 6th, 2013, 8:42 pm

The Legend

Team President - Rod Wood

Joined: February 11th, 2005, 3:01 pmPosts: 4886Location: WSU

Re: Lovie!?!

IE - I agree with most of what you wrote. Regarding Lovie, when the Bears fired him I thought they had a surefire proven candidate ready to come in like a Cowher or Gruden but that appears to not be the case. It looks like they are interviewing other teams OC people like Arians, Carmichael, McCoy etc. Im not sure any of them are slam dunks to succeed and thats why they might regret losing a guy thats been pretty steady.

January 7th, 2013, 1:45 am

conversion02

RIP Killer

Joined: January 26th, 2005, 9:34 pmPosts: 10863Location: Sycamore, IL

Re: Lovie!?!

Isn't Arians like 70 and just go to the hospital?

Either way, I didn't realize what I would start here, so I'm moving this to around the league...