If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by M3J

Nagato probably wouldn't have to learn anything or learn the way others do stuff due to Rin'negan, he can just do almost any jutsu he wants. if his skill usage was good, then he wouldn't have lost five bodies so far before his fight with Naruto.

Really? So Neji losing to Naruto, or being constantly hit with fists, arrows and trapped by a water prison suddenly doesn't make him a genius? Sasuke getting constantly beat up by Kage level shinobi suddenly doesn't make him a genius? Getting beat up in fights doesn't mean you suck.

Alright Nagato lost 5 bodies before fighting Naruto, but 3 of those were against one of the most powerful shinobi in Naruto ever, Jiraiya, a fight he chose to only fight with 3 of his 6 Paths which made him lose the bodies. Come on that's not fair, he was owning Jiraiya even without Deva and two other Paths until a super powerful genjutsu hit him, even Jiraiya admits to that fact. Losing those 3 bodies doesn't downgrade anything as he had 3 others (1 of them easily more powerful than all the other 5 combined) as back up just waiting to jump in. He was playing it safe, that's strategy. The 4th body was lost against Kakashi, a highly praised genius of his own. Does this also downgrade Nagato? Really? The 5th was totally weird and a complete embarrassment, but the other 4 were lost against highly skilled shinobi. Had he lost no bodies at all against both Jiraiya and Kakashi I would have called bullshit, wouldn't you?

Originally Posted by M3J

Last panel indicates that Kaiten isn't about Byakugan, but about ability to release chakra from hands and body. Even with Byakugan, the jutsu wouldn't be as good if Neji wasn't able to send out chakra from alll parts of his body and repel the attacks. Although Kaiten requires Byakugan, which in turn requires Hyuuga genes (which could be debated due to Ao), it also needs its user to be good at sending out chakra to repel the attacks. Apparently, Kaiten and 64 Hands of Hakke were self-taught. which would elevate Neji to more than just a genius.

I already said that Neji is a genius, that's obvious. He's a genius of both growth/development and skill/skill usage. I was making a point that all of Neji's abilities have a direct relation to Byakugan just like all of Nagato's abilities are related to Rinnegan, however that means nothing as they can easily be geniuses despite that. Let's break it down. Hyuuga's fighting style = Gentle Fist taijutsu, which is directly dependant on the user possessing Byakugan. If they don't it's impossible to use the fighting style to begin with. Because the style centers around mastering the art of dealing precise blows, every Hyuuga who masters the style trains up exceptional chakra control. With other words Neji as a Hyuuga and possessor of Byakugan, while obviously being a genius (highly skilled in its usage), trained himself into a master of the Gentle Fist style, which in turn allows for easier usage of techniques such as Kaiten and Empty Palm, this because he has already achieved exceptional chakra control on top of being a genius in that department and already mastered the art of releasing precise and small amounts of chakra from his hands.

Every ninja basically learns to release chakra from his entire body. They learn to walk on water and also need to release chakra from their knees, elbows etc when they need to for example "climb up from water", even Naruto as a "new" genin could do this to some level. Neji simply took it to the next level, which should be "easy" once you are already highly skilled in the art of using the Gentle Fist style. Shortly said Kaiten is directly tied to his Byakugan and his mastery of the Gentle Fist style, as are all of his abilities, just like Nagato. However I don't take away from them because of that, they are both geniuses in their own ways.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by zimbardo

Although I agree with you that Neji is a genius, I am going to have to pick you up on this point.
For proof, here, here, and here.

Yeah, I know that. But that's completely different. Walking on water is simply releasing chakra from the feet, as long as the right amount comes out at the right time it's irrelevant which opening is being used etc. What Neji is doing is precise control of the amount of chakra he releases from each opening, so he has full control of every chakra opening in his body. Hence the point about him taking it to another level. Also that page is speaking about releasing chakra while doing a technique, which builds on how epic Neji is for being able to use a technique such as Kaiten while releasing from his entire body not just a hand or leg. When you're sitting/standing on water or trying to "climb" up from water, it's usually not combined with using a technique. For example Sakura sits on the water so she's releasing chakra from her ass and legs but not doing much else. Anyway the point is that Neji is a genius so yes we agree. The point of my previous post in regards to Neji was to show how every technique he has builds on the usage of Byakugan.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by 3c

Really? So Neji losing to Naruto, or being constantly hit with fists, arrows and trapped by a water prison suddenly doesn't make him a genius? Sasuke getting constantly beat up by Kage level shinobi suddenly doesn't make him a genius? Getting beat up in fights doesn't mean you suck.

He broke out of the water prison, beat Kidomaru, and Naruto's the main character. :|

And Sasuke didn't really die, he was able to survive although he ran away in the end. Never said getting beaten up in fights meant someone sucked, otherwise Naruto would have been horrible. He's gotten beaten up so many times before, but he's still a great ninja. What I'm saying is that Nagato lost at least one body in every fight we've seen him in.

Quote:

Alright Nagato lost 5 bodies before fighting Naruto, but 3 of those were against one of the most powerful shinobi in Naruto ever, Jiraiya, a fight he chose to only fight with 3 of his 6 Paths which made him lose the bodies. Come on that's not fair, he was owning Jiraiya even without Deva and two other Paths until a super powerful genjutsu hit him, even Jiraiya admits to that fact. Losing those 3 bodies doesn't downgrade anything as he had 3 others (1 of them easily more powerful than all the other 5 combined) as back up just waiting to jump in. He was playing it safe, that's strategy. The 4th body was lost against Kakashi, a highly praised genius of his own. Does this also downgrade Nagato? Really? The 5th was totally weird and a complete embarrassment, but the other 4 were lost against highly skilled shinobi. Had he lost no bodies at all against both Jiraiya and Kakashi I would have called bullshit, wouldn't you?

He wasn't owning Jiraiya at all, as far as I saw it was a tie leaning towards Jiraiya as he managed to hit Animal Realm. Jiraiya (or Pa) said that they needed to retreat and think of a plan otherwise they'd lose, not that Jiraiya was being owned. The fact that Nagato was willing to sacrifice his bodies unnecessarily (not counting Jiraiya, and QUITE POSSIBLY Kakashi, as it was a good plan if it was intentional) was kinda stupid. My point isn't that Nagato lost bodies against skilled shinobi, but that he lost bodies, especially against a kid. He constantly got tricked by kage bunshin by different enemies.

Just so happens that Rin'negan made Nagato go all "meh" as all he needed to do was use Shinra Tensei or whatnot. If it was someone like Sasuke or Neji, they'd have had problems.

Quote:

I already said that Neji is a genius, that's obvious. He's a genius of both growth/development and skill/skill usage. I was making a point that all of Neji's abilities have a direct relation to Byakugan just like all of Nagato's abilities are related to Rinnegan, however that means nothing as they can easily be geniuses despite that. Let's break it down. Hyuuga's fighting style = Gentle Fist taijutsu, which is directly dependant on the user possessing Byakugan. If they don't it's impossible to use the fighting style to begin with. Because the style centers around mastering the art of dealing precise blows, every Hyuuga who masters the style trains up exceptional chakra control. With other words Neji as a Hyuuga and possessor of Byakugan, while obviously being a genius (highly skilled in its usage), trained himself into a master of the Gentle Fist style, which in turn allows for easier usage of techniques such as Kaiten and Empty Palm, this because he has already achieved exceptional chakra control on top of being a genius in that department and already mastered the art of releasing precise and small amounts of chakra from his hands.

It's not entirely related to Byakugan. Kaiten is related to Byakugan, but it'd be meaningless if Neji wasn't able to control chakra from parts of his body well enough to repel attacks. It's just like how Sharingan would be useless in copying a move if the ninja didn't have the elemental affinity for it.

If Neji didn't practice good chakra control, then he wouldn't have been able to use Empty Palm or Kaiten well enough. the defense would have wavered. Even against Kidomaru Neji showed intelligence.

Quote:

Every ninja basically learns to release chakra from his entire body. They learn to walk on water and also need to release chakra from their knees, elbows etc when they need to for example "climb up from water", even Naruto as a "new" genin could do this to some level. Neji simply took it to the next level, which should be "easy" once you are already highly skilled in the art of using the Gentle Fist style. Shortly said Kaiten is directly tied to his Byakugan and his mastery of the Gentle Fist style, as are all of his abilities, just like Nagato. However I don't take away from them because of that, they are both geniuses in their own ways.

Regardless, Neji still had to learn how to release chakra from his whole body, something that jounins have difficulty doing. Byakugan is most likely the reason why Neji can use Kaiten, but it'd be for naught if his chakra control wasn't good.

Originally Posted by 3c

The point of my previous post in regards to Neji was to show how every technique he has builds on the usage of Byakugan.

It'd be useless if he wasn't able to control his chakra to the point that the jutsu is solid, if that makes sense. Byakugan doesn't help with chakra control or anything, it just enables its user to use more jutsu if they are able. Nagato wouldn't need to meet any requirement but Rin'negan in order to use most of hte jutsu. He can use Shinra Tensei without worry, whereas Neji needs chakra control and Byakugan to use Kaiten. I can't really mention the practice part though as we have no idea just how much help Neji and Nagato had initially, although both were most likely taught to control and mold their chakra to use basic jutsu.

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

I also feel Naruto is a genius. He is at best 16 years old and has become one of the most powerful shinobi on the planet. He was a drop out at the academy and then he learns the shadow clone jutsu in a few hours. That was self taught i believe and i don't think that is bad for a kid who was never good at anything before

Re: The concept of "Genius" in NARUTO

Originally Posted by UchihaHunter

Hmm...I feel like I'm the only person that wasn't impressed with the dodging of the explosion. He still took enough of it to get burned, etc, and I'm not even sure how much of him escaping the explosion was speed and how much was him possibly using Preta Path to absorb it. To be fair though, it's not like Haku showed super speed against Sasuke and the others outside of his Ice Element mirror tech. So I guess I'll go with general consensus and say that Nagato showed good speed there.

Basically, he's only cast one tech one-handedly...I can't remember any examples of bloodline techs that needed a string of seals either. He also used a regular two-handed seal to cast his mirror tech. But, like you said, there is a possibility that Haku can only cast his Ice Element techs with one-hand.

But you saw me recant my Yamato thoughts mid-post o.O. He would still need decent all-around skills to be a high-level ANBU member though.

I still don't think Nagato showed impressive speed, but everyone else seems to, so I conceded that. Nagato's taijutsu still isn't really impressive to me. Naruto isn't really impressive taijutsu-wise, he's just stronger and faster than almost everyone, so his taijutsu has improved (plus in Sage mode, he can attack with nature energy). Bee actually is good at taijutsu, but Nagato's counter consisted of using Preta Path to pwn. Not really the same as Kimimaru being able to read and counter Rock Lee (even though Lee was injured) as well as being able to not take a single hit from 1000 Naruto clones.

Regarding the willpower, eh. Unless he was already dying from an illness a la Itachi/Kimimaro, it actually looks more stupid than anything else to do what he did, especially considering he was warned that Naruto was strong AND he should've known that Jiraiya got information out to Konoha regarding his abilities.

You could also say that Kimimaro leaving his bed was stupidity, but of course, considering he actually helped Orochimaru achieve his initial goal (which was the plan in the first place after Sasuke was late), he fared better than Nagato. Kimimaro was basically dead, and he fought Kyuubi-fueled Naruto, injured/drunken Rock Lee, and fresh Gaara (who had improved since his fight with Lee). To me, what Kimimaro did was far more impressive than a reset button that couldn't reach back to Jiraiya.

If you have a feeling of how to do it once you get the eyes, then I don't really see how Nagato's use of the abilities is impressive. Again though, we don't have anyone to compare him to, so it's not like showing Sasuke can manipulate Amaterasu's flames, Itachi can manipulate time with Tsukuyomi, etc. And even though Tobi hasn't shown much yet, his belief that he could just use Human Path to steal Yamato's knowledge, along with him creating the 6 paths leads me to believe he knows what he's doing.

Again, considering that Tobi states that he gave the Rinnegan to Nagato, I don't see how we can just assume that Tobi had nothing to do with Nagato learning how to use the Rinnegan.

Honestly, the only thing I really saw as impressive from Nagato was that he could control those 6 bodies all at the same time, even when they were involved in other fights. There wasn't an obvious increase in ability from the bodies when they only had one opponent to focus on (Naruto or even Jiraiya), but the fact that he could send them all out to do various things was very impressive. The way he was able to do that is probably the best counter to the argument that he's not impressive without the Rinnegan, even if it's the Rinnegan that allows him to do it. Everything else just seemed kinda meh. Just looking at the Hanzou example, he was able to summon Gedo Mazo, and repelled the initial attacks from the Leaf ninja (probably by using Shinra Tensei). If he could do that, why didn't he just absorb the explosion completely with Preta Path's ability?

I'd like to note though, I actually said that comparing him to Itachi, Minato, etc. isn't really fair since he didn't grow up a ninja. I'm just helping to articulate the argument that Nagato isn't impressive outside of his kekkai genkai abilities, lol.

This post is dead on. I'd said before that Nagato initially doesn't seem like the type of person to even be or even want to be a shinobi. You never get that vibe from him but he had so much power ironically which came from the rinnegan. I also agree with you that the best argument for why Nagato should be considered a genius is his display of using the Six Paths jutsu. But if Tobi does it just as easily than we gotta seriously think about what those eyes do for the user, correct?

Yeah, I know that. But that's completely different. Walking on water is simply releasing chakra from the feet, as long as the right amount comes out at the right time it's irrelevant which opening is being used etc. What Neji is doing is precise control of the amount of chakra he releases from each opening, so he has full control of every chakra opening in his body. Hence the point about him taking it to another level. Also that page is speaking about releasing chakra while doing a technique, which builds on how epic Neji is for being able to use a technique such as Kaiten while releasing from his entire body not just a hand or leg. When you're sitting/standing on water or trying to "climb" up from water, it's usually not combined with using a technique. For example Sakura sits on the water so she's releasing chakra from her ass and legs but not doing much else. Anyway the point is that Neji is a genius so yes we agree. The point of my previous post in regards to Neji was to show how every technique he has builds on the usage of Byakugan.

I don't see how we can compare those two types of ninjutsu's. Neji had to develop his technique yes and his byakugan helped sure. But when Nagato's rinnegans turns on, poof. He can spin a wheel, 1 out of 6 chances the ability is overkill..Suck out your soul, gravitational force, revive the dead, suck your chakra, etc...That's a drastic difference in how their abilities were developed or even used.

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Originally Posted by so6pww

3. Again, you are failing to understand the word genius in the case of Uchiha. When speaking of Uchiha, genius is not synonymous of being smart. It simply means they have an ability that is natural and unique to them - they have the almighty Sharingan same as why Hyuaga are a genius clan. Besides, Obito has never been shown to be stupid or dumb. Rather, he was shown to cover his lack of motivation with a sickness in his eyes - which might even be true. It is the same as Naruto hiding his loneliness with prankster. Actually, they were very smart to come up with these solutions. Only people who did not know their problem called them stupid or dumb. Actually, I think that as a reader, you should know this and see how smart they are.

Interesting. The definition you made on term genius, I mean.
I think labeling a clan genius as a whole is a bit too much. Neji was a Hyuuga genius. It wasn't because he had Byakugan. Hinata also has it, but she's not a genius, because the speed she picks up the things is nowhere near Neji's. Same with Sasuke and Itachi. They were thought of as geniuses, since their natural development was well ahead of the expected schedule. Say, like Itachi becoming an ANBU captain at 13. Kakashi was a genius, because he graduated from the academy at 6 or 7, can't remember the exact age and became a jounin like when he was about 13. Uchiha who unlock the Sharingan aren't necessarily geniuses, since there are a lot of Uchiha who awaken the Sharingan, because it's a family's trademark genetic heritage passed down, thus, not necessarily the signal of genius.

Thus, I don't believe Obito was a genius. He was always a step behind Kakashi, like Jiraiya was a step behind Orochimaru. I can't go labeling everyone with some unique skill as a genius (since there are a lot of people with some natural and unique ability), but then again, it's just me.

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Originally Posted by Rikudou King

Having greater intelligences doesn't make someone abnormal, not like having a bloodline limit or enhanced ability does. Shikamaru and Shikaku are superior to everyone else in smarts and their still normal ninjas. Nor were the Senju ever noted as having overflowing intelligences. Knowing a bunch of techniques doesn't mean they created said techniques. It's true that the majority of ninjas have some unique ability that allows them to be superior to regular ninjas, which is why Minato is so special. The fact that his a normal person who worked hard to become capable of hanging with the top tier powerhouses is far more impressive then him just being another person up there because he had the right blood or ability.

The Uchiha forefather wasn't just acting because he wanted to be successor, but because he believed his way would be the path to peace. And it was the betrayal of his clan, who Madara had come to believe only he could protect, that triggered Madara wanting to wipe out Konoha. Infinite Tsukuyomi is just his attempt to bring about his own peace. There's rarely reasonable reasons for hatred.

Everything I claim is backed up by the series. Not sure what you're talking about, since everytime I answer you, I prove specific proof to support my argument and elaborate enough to explain my point.

No there isn't. In fact, it was a major point brought up by the Hachbi that the Kyuubi wasn't taking Naruto's chakra, else he would have been out of the fight long ago. The Kyuubi not taking Naruto's chakra was the beginning of it's change of heart towards him. It should be obvious that the Kyuubi hadn't been taking his chakra, given Naruto completely ignored the Hachibi's advice and continuously used the cloak all night and day.

Because he doesn't have a bloodline limit or enhanced ability. That is a pretty good reason to treat someone as normal actually. Just because he's powerful doesn't change that he's normal. If anything, it makes him more impressive, given that he doesn't need some special ability to be awesome. Not sure why you want to take away from his specialness by trying to make him like every other joe who's only special because of some superhuman power.

It was explain why Sasuke was named after him, because his mother hoped that he would grow up to be a splendid ninja like his namesake. And there's only the five basic natures, so of course there would be overlap. Naruto, Asuma, and Temari all have wind natures, yet they're not related at all.

Look at shikaku and shikamaru. They're superior to everyone else for being so damn smart. But their accomplishments are nothing compared to minato.

Well, don't really matter if minato is part of a powerful clan or not. I'm just curious on his lineage because he was suppose to be the father of the main character nor i care if minato is just a regular person or not, but my point is, it's too early to say that. The story is all about the senju and uchiha. And we know that the uzumaki is a distant relative to the senju, but still, they're two different clans. So minato must be somehow part of the senju for naruto being the senju's descendant the same as sasuke for being the uchiha's descendant. If not, then what's the point of the uchiha and senju's rivalry, the will of fire to hatred, naruto to sasuke. That's just my opinion though.

After all, it doesn't matter if minato is just a regular person, he's still no doubt one of the strongest ninja.

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Originally Posted by Hakuteiken

Interesting. The definition you made on term genius, I mean.
I think labeling a clan genius as a whole is a bit too much. Neji was a Hyuuga genius. It wasn't because he had Byakugan. Hinata also has it, but she's not a genius, because the speed she picks up the things is nowhere near Neji's. Same with Sasuke and Itachi. They were thought of as geniuses, since their natural development was well ahead of the expected schedule. Say, like Itachi becoming an ANBU captain at 13. Kakashi was a genius, because he graduated from the academy at 6 or 7, can't remember the exact age and became a jounin like when he was about 13. Uchiha who unlock the Sharingan aren't necessarily geniuses, since there are a lot of Uchiha who awaken the Sharingan, because it's a family's trademark genetic heritage passed down, thus, not necessarily the signal of genius.

Thus, I don't believe Obito was a genius. He was always a step behind Kakashi, like Jiraiya was a step behind Orochimaru. I can't go labeling everyone with some unique skill as a genius (since there are a lot of people with some natural and unique ability), but then again, it's just me.

Itachi and Neiji were geniuses among geniuses. That is how I see it. They have stronger inheritance of their bloodline. Itachi awaken his sharingan earlier than the regular Uchiha. Neiji as a little boy was told by his father that he is the most blessed among the Uchiha. These facts are canon and have nothing to do with the brain.

I saw most of Neiji's fight and everything he did was Byakugan, and I can say there was no strategy. He got beaten the minute Naruto powered up. The only time Neiji used a strategy was inspired by Naruto. He even asked himself what Naruto would do if he were in his shoes.

Almost 95% of all Itachi's fight were Tsukyomi or another genjutsu. These are canon.

Therefore, I can tell you that they were geniuses first because they had eyes, and second because they inherited the eyes stronger than others. We saw also how Obito became boss the minute he get Sharingan and SEnju DNA after being useless for many years.

Finally, the least I can say is: How can I convince a fanboy with the obvious?

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Neji showed he was a genius by figuring out the main house secret technique all on his own, without any help and mastered his clan's techniques despite being a branch member. Itachi's showed he was a genius by graduated from the academy in one year, before he had even awoke his Sharingan and going on to pass the Chuunin exam at ten and join Anbu the following year before becoming captain well before he awoke MS. And Sasuke was shown a genius by being number one in all his classes, and mastering techniques above his level.

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Sasuke and Itachi were known to be geniuses before they even got their Sharingan. Sasuke topped in nearly all of his classes, adn Itachi graduated at age 7. These two are definitely geniuses. Minato and Kakashi are also known as geniuses, and we've seen all four prove why they're geniuses.

Naruto is not a genius, however. He's a hard worker. He works hard to master new powers, like rasengan, kage bunshin, and the likes. Minato or Sasuke could have figured out how Jiraiya made the balloon pop, but it took a cat playing with the balloon for Naruto to figure it out. Sasuke and Sakura figured out that they were supposed to cheat and not get caught, but Naruto NEVER figured that out. Those who say Naruto is a genius are deluding themselves, and I like Naruto, at least Part I Naruto.

I mean, Minato created rasengan from scratch. Naruto had Jiraiya to guide him. FRS doesn't prove anything, as Kakashi and Yamato still helped him develop it, or at least, fuuton: rasengan. I don't see how you can consider Naruto a genius. He will never be on Minato, Kakashi, Itachi, or Sasuke's level, ever. Though, he can still trick or outsmart them like he did Neji, another known genius.

So basically, we have two Uchiha who were known as genius before they gained Sharingan or used it, and one Hyuuga who was known as a genius at a young age and proved it by learning main branch's techniques wihtout being taught. Eyes don't make one a genius, genius makes one a genius.

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Originally Posted by M3J

Naruto is not a genius, however. He's a hard worker. He works hard to master new powers, like rasengan, kage bunshin, and the likes. Minato or Sasuke could have figured out how Jiraiya made the balloon pop, but it took a cat playing with the balloon for Naruto to figure it out. Sasuke and Sakura figured out that they were supposed to cheat and not get caught, but Naruto NEVER figured that out. Those who say Naruto is a genius are deluding themselves, and I like Naruto, at least Part I Naruto.

I mean, Minato created rasengan from scratch. Naruto had Jiraiya to guide him. FRS doesn't prove anything, as Kakashi and Yamato still helped him develop it, or at least, fuuton: rasengan. I don't see how you can consider Naruto a genius. He will never be on Minato, Kakashi, Itachi, or Sasuke's level, ever. Though, he can still trick or outsmart them like he did Neji, another known genius.

buaha right... sasuke knew how to cheat becouse all he did was use his "sharingan" the hax power to copy the movement of the arm... if everyone had such convinient power then no one had problems with cheating...naruto had no such convinent power... even akamaru, byakugan, bugs, dolls.... if sakura or sasuke would be so great they would find a way to help naruto by giving them their answers (like kankorou did for temari)

About naruto... dude... all jiraya did was to tell him that there are 3steps...showed him rasengans look.... told him to pop up a ballon and ball...and that's it !!! where the hell was he guiding naruto ? he told only to work hard to pop it... took narutos cash and went for women.... naruto went to the rasengan on his own...and in his own unique way (clones). About FRS well Kakashi or Yamato had no Bloody idea (even minato) how to fuse a rasengan with nature element.... kakashi and yamato were there "ONLY" becouse they had to look after the 9tails going rampage and taking that under control.... if naruto had no such risk they wouldnt be needed there.... the akatsuki threat was a thing that made naruto to use such hardcore training method... so genrally lacing time in all training sesions...even in sage mode with "pain threat"

Dont put on sasuke an "genius" mark becouse he isnt... if he lost his sharingan for good he would lose almost all moves, wouldnt be able to predict enemys movment by looking at the chakra... Kakashi was guinding sasuke by a hand how to make chidori....later sasuke demanded learning from orochimaru... so he too was constantly beign guided..... later it was itachi who showed and made sasuke realize taht such move exist... and that is susano...

so sasuke is no genius... before he activated his sharingan he got defeated by rock lee with ease... later he just "copied" lees trained moves... its not learning from hard work but using a shortcut by just copying ;/, well naruto was never really smart in school...well becouse he had no parents to guide him or help him with his studies like sasuke had... Minato would mostly help him with it as he is the smart one ^^ but naruto had no such convinent life and had no parents so he had to do all on his own

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

Originally Posted by M3J

Sasuke and Itachi were known to be geniuses before they even got their Sharingan. Sasuke topped in nearly all of his classes, adn Itachi graduated at age 7. These two are definitely geniuses. Minato and Kakashi are also known as geniuses, and we've seen all four prove why they're geniuses.

Naruto is not a genius, however. He's a hard worker. He works hard to master new powers, like rasengan, kage bunshin, and the likes. Minato or Sasuke could have figured out how Jiraiya made the balloon pop, but it took a cat playing with the balloon for Naruto to figure it out. Sasuke and Sakura figured out that they were supposed to cheat and not get caught, but Naruto NEVER figured that out. Those who say Naruto is a genius are deluding themselves, and I like Naruto, at least Part I Naruto.

I mean, Minato created rasengan from scratch. Naruto had Jiraiya to guide him. FRS doesn't prove anything, as Kakashi and Yamato still helped him develop it, or at least, fuuton: rasengan. I don't see how you can consider Naruto a genius. He will never be on Minato, Kakashi, Itachi, or Sasuke's level, ever. Though, he can still trick or outsmart them like he did Neji, another known genius.

So basically, we have two Uchiha who were known as genius before they gained Sharingan or used it, and one Hyuuga who was known as a genius at a young age and proved it by learning main branch's techniques wihtout being taught. Eyes don't make one a genius, genius makes one a genius.

you do realize that have obito came back to konoha after he awaken his MS, pretty much everyone would have refer to him as a genius right? They might even refer to him as the best in his generation even, so your statement is false really especially eyes don't make one a genius. Even a kid display an amazing or difficult move, then they are likely to be refer to as a genius like if konohamaru can shoot laser beam out of his eyes that travel of the speed of light then I am pretty damn sure everyone would have refer to him as a genius too.

Re: Naruto 617 Discussion / 618 Predictions

The manga should be called "Genius" because that's a synonym for "Naruto."

He's so genius it's undeniable. He trained Konohomaru how to do the Rasengan. He trained such a young kid how to do such a high level move. He's not only the strongest and most creative (read "genius), but he's also a better teacher. How many people has he demonstrated and explained into turning from the "dark side?"