Revised vs 2nd ed

i signed up for DAAK and am looking for opponents, but everyone who has challenged me wants to play 2nd
after playing revised, i cant imagine wanting to go back, everything is better
whats your opinion?
mateo

try challenging people at revised and don’t wait for them to challenge you.

I recently was challenged by an opponent for revised so it does happen.

As for differences, the game has been stretched out a bit. It allows for some unfortunate rolls to occur on the first turn but does not throw the game away (unless some really unwise combat decisions are made). There is a bit more buffer for Germany to survive in the name of new Atlantic sea zones. Allied logistics in the Atlantic now make a real difference and if not played right, can give the Germans an extra turn or more to build.

Russia is the same way. The extended depth allows for a bit more flexibility in defense. Funky first turn builds are not fatal, short of a Battleship out of Caucasus. The road for Japan to Russia has been extended by 1 turn as well. The depth of space forces the Japanese to use logistics both on the mainland and off.

Increased IPC values on the Pacific Islands give the Allies a Pacific opportunity to harass the Japanese a bit.

There is definately more going on in the game in comparison to the original.

Well, I have done some experimental low value bids in Classic, and gotten my butt kicked royally every time.

And in Revised, I have won w/o a bid at all, against pretty fair opponents.

A small bid in Revised, REALLY forces the Allies to step up. Without any bid, the Allies can make more mistakes and still win. With a small bid, they have to play closer to perfect to win, or at least tit-for-tat on mistakes with the Axis…

With no bid, a well played Allies executing a KGF should beat an equally well played Axis more than half the time. CAN the Axis win? Of course. Can they win quite often? Probably. Can they win as often as the Allies? I think not.

The Allies whould win 60%-65% of the games (on average) without a bid.

interesting…

If you REALLY, REALLY want to know?
then you should set up the game and play yourself a game of Axis and Allies Revised with NO LUCK!
I think some people here can play for 2 perfectly balanced opponents on their own…
so, if you want to know?
play a game of NO luck

by the way: I’m NOT interested to play “no” or “low” luck, I’m just saying you should see the IPC-bid is needed or not. 8-)

i personally love the idea of luck. this makes Axis and Allies great, because it changes every single game. If you are Axis, and you manage to take out the british BB by gibralter and get to keep your sub, wow, suddently you have more options. If Japan gets really unlucky in pearl harbor, it gives the US more incentive to hang out in the pacifc. 1/12th of the time the jap transport by KWA kills the british destroyer and lives, suddenly expanding japans options. While every game, disregarding bids, starts the same, by the first roll of the game each game becomes unique. Each lucky or unlucky battle changes your opponents’ response, and your counter response. Without luck, we would have chess, where strategies have been mapped out and analysed to the 20th move. luck evens out in the long term, but it also guarantees that each move will have a different outcome each time.

Luck is also great because it salvages pride. "Man, I only lost because of that one horrible roll I made when I invaded x and you rolled 9 1s.
mateooo

In short, to prevent “good” players from losing to mediocre players because of dice.

Originally, it was a strat testing method… then it got turned in to game play as a protection against “bad dice” and to insure that games ALWAYS went along pre-planned pathways instead of being more fluid (as you get with LL).

LL is not fool proof in protecting against bad dice (just check my G1 move in my LL Classic game with Avin for proof… the Ukraine battle). But it DOES force the game into pretty predicatable patterns… allowing the person with the most over-developed skill at using a simulator to be superior… because they have pre-tested all the likely battles. ADS creates NEW battles and new variables, and sim players don;t like that.

Go look at some of the discussions by one of our banned board members, Agent Smith/Sexual Harassment Panda/SHP and see what I mean…

In brief, the Ladder features a bid of 9 for the Axis.Â The bid can be used to purchase additional units or banked as the Axis player desires within a couple of restrictions.Â No more than one unit can be added per territory/SZ, and units can only be placed on territories controlled by that country, or in SZs with other ships of that country.

Matches are played in two game sets, with each player playing once as the Axis and once as the Allies.Â So the best players can not gravitate to playing one side or the other, like can happen in the tournament on these boards in the Games forum right now.Â The winner of each game is determined by the player to reach 9 Victory Cities at the end of the USA turn, or by concession.

There are 175 players active right now, from all over the world.Â This assures a wide variety of skill levels and strategies.

1140 games have been completed to date, which is a fairly large sample size.

Of those games, the Axis is winning 51% of the time.Â This is almost 50/50, which implies a bid of 9 for the Axis is probably VERY close to perfectly balancing the sides.Â Perhaps the Axis has a slight edge with a bid of 9, but the extra 1% might be statistically insignificant.Â Maybe if the bid were lowered to 8, the Allies winning percentage would jump to 55%, which would mean 9 is more balanced.Â In any case, the stats strongly indicate that a bid of 8 or 9 is the most balanced.

One interesting thing to note is that of the top 10 players by rating, 8 of them have a better winning percentage as the Allies.Â This might imply that at the highest levels of play, the Axis is overmatched a bit even with a 9 bid.

One caveat; players can play either by Low Luck or Regular Dice, and the statistics for the two are not separated.Â So if Low Luck favors one side, the statistics might be skewed.Â But the majority of players seem to play Regular Dice, so I doubt the Low Luck stats are too big an influence.

I’ll I’m saying is that I don’t have any trouble winning when I play the Axis.Â In 2nd I did.Â Thats my point.Â I think bids are silly, and I think that Low No Luck is for whiners.

Bids are silly? I guess most people who play the game at a high level or tournamant levels are silly then.

And there isn’t much to whine about in Low Luck. If you lose in low luck, its most likely due to your bad strategy. In real dice, you could lose solely based on a bad set of dice. From what I’ve seen, some real dice players are much bigger whiners than low luck players. No names, but I’ve seen some of the real dice proponents on this board whine like crazy when they got a set of dice only slightly below average.

@Mazer:
Hey LT04.
Close, but there is one odd exception: if your capital falls (say Moscow to Japan) and you take another capital (say Berlin to Russia) then Russia gets the money from the Germans and can spend it the next turn.
Very minor point, but I just wanted to note the oddity. You can’t collect income in the collect income phase, but you can collect someone else’s income
Peace
@Krieghund:
Actually, in that case you do get the IPCs, but you can’t spend them until your capital is liberated.
Well you learn something new every day.
LT

@AJ:
What is FIDA?
http://aamc.net/bunker/forumsql/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=68
All AARevised games played in AAMC use FIDA bidding unless the players agree to another bid system prior to the game starting. FIDA stands for Flames of Europe, IAAPA, DAAK and AAMC, the four clubs that developed the bidding system. Under FIDA bidding, each player submits a number of IPCs for a bid. The lower bid plays Axis. Up to half of the value of those IPCs can be placed on the mapboard prior to the start of the game in new units. Germany can place units in territories and sea zones that already contain German units. Japan can place units in territories and sea zones that already contain Japanese units. Neither Axis player can place units in territories or sea zones where it does not already have units. The remaining balance of IPCs from the bid can be given to either Germany or Japan or split in whatever manner the Axis player chooses.
Example of a bid: 15, 1 Inf in Ukraine, 1 Rtl in Libya, 6 IPC Germany, 2 IPC Japan.

@ohwrm said in Are either of these the National production Chart for the 2004 revised edition?:
I’m missing it and currently trying to find one to print out but since I don’t know what it looks like, I’m having difficulties
http://ernestangely.org/queensland/how-to-find-index-units-aviation.php
The Production Chart at the top of this page is for some version of A&A Global 1940 (the admixture of A&A Europe 1940 and A&A Pacific 1940). While nifty looking, it won’t help you much with A&A Revised.
https://www.axisandallies.org/forums/topic/9982/new-national-production-national-objectives-chart
This Production Chart is also for A&A 1940, in this case A&A Pacific 1940.
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/63235/axis-allies?size=large
This production chart is for the Milton Bradley version of A&A. Again, nifty looking, but it won’t help you much with A&A Revised.
or if anyone has the game, if they could send me a photo that would be seriously appreciated (I’m also missing the Reference Chart for the Soviet Union)
By finding BGG, you’ve hit on a source of information about A&A, you just haven’t found the right mine shaft to explore. Instead of looking at BGG’s Nova Games & Milton Bradley A&A page, try BGG’s Avalon Hill A&A (A&A Revised) page. Yes, they are both “helpfully” named “Axis & Allies”. This is both technically correct and wildly unhelpful. That said, the BGG A&A Revised page has much information, to include:
(source)
But there are also resources on this website that can help you. The front page to the site has a link to “Rules & Downloads”. Going there will land you on a page of basic information about the different A&A games. Scroll down until you get to the “Axis & Allies Revised (2004)” section. You will have two options, a link to download a pdf version of the rules for the game and a link to a setup chart for the game. The setup chart gives you the unique information found on Reference Chart for the Soviets (the rest of the information on the chart is about the names, abilities, and prices for the units in the game, information that is duplicated both in the rule book and on the other four reference charts.
If you want to duplicate the look of a reference chart, combine the reference chart from another country with the setup from here. You might find a picture of another country’s reference chart here.
I hope that helps.
-Midnight_Reaper

Not sure if anyone is interested in this
I have a mint condition revised edition that i got given for winning a tournament.
It was signed by larry harris saying congratulations on the tournament win.
i think it was the world championships or something like that basically daak and .org and 2 other clubs played a big tournament which i won.
i live in australia but can post world wide.
Worth anything to anyone

Your painting job is superb! But you messed up the Stuka, it wouldn’t have had invasion stripes. Those were for Allied aircraft that participated in D-day.
Oops! Sorry, I mistook your cross for stripes, sorry.

Just FY for others following this thread…
At the German site, you either need to be a member, or you have to select a low-luck dice server. But otherwise, it is exactly like Dicey and is available for regular or revised.
The other die server site would just be annoying to track, especially in some large European fights.
May have to see about membership in DAAK (appears to be free) to use their die server…
TY Tri and Perry for your quick responses!