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Another gas thread

06-25-2008, 08:11 AM

I realized that I really don't get it. I mean I understand the way oil is speculated and how it drives the prices, but what caused this?

As a pinko Bush hater, my mind automatically follows a certain path. Here it is, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or unclear, because this is only stuff I have picked up and pieced together. I know it isn't complete, and I know it is more complicated than this, but follow me if you dare.

Bush, a former oil man with strong family ties to, and a cabinet that is a who's who of the oil industry gets in office 7.5 years ago and immediately tries to open drilling in Alaska and offshore. It gets rejected.

Other energy companies , ie Enron, artificially create energy crisis by shutting down supply and causing brown outs and rolling blackouts raising prices in Cali. This ends up having political implications as well as the price gouging that runs rampant.

The continuous shut down of refineries and ambiguous things such as "unrest in the middle east" drive prices to double while oil companies make record profits every quarter. Meanwhile, some of the unrest in the middle east that has been, for better or worse, was caused by our invasion of the second biggest oil reserve in the world. Promises were made of oil production not only to be back up and running strong within 6 months of the invasion, but that it would also pay the tab for the reconstruction of the country. Does not happen, tax payer pay a cost equivalent to 70 years of Social Security for our own people for that whole project instead. And counting.

With less than a year in office left, suddenly oil raises so sharply we see gas prices, already having doubled, double again. Most of this after Bush visits Saudi Arabia and asks for increased production to cover a demand that, I'm sorry I may be naive, also DOUBLED in that time? They say no. Really?

People feel the pain for real now. It has gone from a minor hurt to harming the economy and peoples ability to survive. You start to hear about how we should be drilling offshore and in Alaska, but the silly libs didn't want it all along. You start hearing about how much oil we'd get and little damage it will cost to our coast and wildlife preserve. The fact that the same companies who are making record profits on this "shortage" now will be subsidized, again by the tax payer, to explore these avenues you don't hear so much. The fact that these same companies are not drilling or producing nearly what is possible from the places they ARE allowed to now, well again, not so much.

So now, right before the term is up, we get softened up toward giving our money and land to the people who are profiting from our misery, in an industry that has been shown to be able to price gouge.

But it is irrelevant that the secretary of state had an oil tanker named after her because she was so important to these companies before she took office. No conflict of interest.

So, war for oil you say hippies? What oil? You stupid hippies! My gas is more expensive and we are not even gettin any out of Iraq! Bushes oil war! Pffft!

What's this? The major oil companies have now been given back the contracts previously lost under the regime of the dictator we ousted in the very awful and expensive war? Yes, that oil. And just for the record, this stupid hippy never once thought that the war for oil was to make it cheaper for the consumer. It was always to make the rich richer. Guess we really will be there 100 years to protect their renewed $ interests in Iraq. Wonder if they get the coast and Alaska cracked too?

The company that has got and will get the contracts to rebuild and set up oil fields in Iraq was presided over by our now VP. No problem! No conflict of interest. BTW the fact that the recent whistle blowing had three insiders claiming fraud was somewhere between 30-80% of the billing they handled, also irrelevant.

Even if you absolutely believe that all of this was on the up and up, what the hell ever happened to conflict of interest? It should not be allowed even the APPEARANCE of impropriety. I've said it before, but I don't think this is what the founding fathers had in mind for their system.

Does not happen, tax payer pay a cost equivalent to 70 years of Social Security for our own people for that whole project instead. And counting.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion that Iraq and Afghanistan are too expensive in a monetary sense, but I don't think the claim that it is the same as 70 years of social security is a valid claim. Here are some figures that dispute it with at least what I think should be considered reasonable citations.

You also forgot about the refineries "closed" for renovation years ago and waiting for exemptions from environmental laws. The oil industry also stated that more refineries should be built in the U. S. but they are holding back waiting for exemptions from environmental laws and currently playing NIMBY (not in my back yard) with site announcements.

If the next administration made noises about nationalizing the oil industry (like Truman threatened the railroads) you would see prices drop considerably.

Comment

You are certainly entitled to your opinion that Iraq and Afghanistan are too expensive in a monetary sense, but I don't think the claim that it is the same as 70 years of social security is a valid claim. Here are some figures that dispute it with at least what I think should be considered reasonable citations.

The outlays for Iraq and Afghanistan were $604 billion from 2001-2007.

Those figures about the war costs, and I am not including Afghanistan BTW, figure in the hidden costs of contractors, medical care for the higher number of wounded soldiers we have seen and will see from this war since happily medicine has progressed to save more lives, the cost of supporting those soldiers who cannot work anymore and if you really want to get outrageous there is the cost to our economy that is sacrificed with each young man and woman who bravely loses their life. They would be a strong part of our economy if they could come home, or never left, and were able to live out their natural lives working. I admit i don't have all the figures, a lot of this I gathered (remembered) from an interview I heard on the radio. But I do know tht your numbers do not include these factors. There is more about this here http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/f...stiglitz200804 , with an overview of how they come to these figures (and a pic of Angelina Jolie in the tub on the right, hardly gives credit to the source-vanity fair-but not unwelcome!)

I don't know if you saw the whistle blowers talking about KBR on CSPAN, but it was pretty shocking.

Eli

Edit: I just read the article I linked for the first time, it repeats several of my points but i see that I remembered a few things wrong from the interview I heard. The point still stands though. The purpose may or may not have been oil behind this war, I don't believe that it was the main purpose, but the fact is there will be many people getting even more wealthy from the sacrifices made there.

Comment

the dollar has lost a large percentage of its value, jsut that in it self may have lead to 1/3 of the price increases,

speculators bidding up the price, (very similar to what happened in the housing market before it collapsed), a lot of what happened to comedies food prices last winter, wheat was nearly $12 a bushel, and had dropped to half of that and is now creeping back up a little, with the flooding in the mid west.

rumors of more war with IRAN, as Iran will try to shut of the straight of Hormuz or how ever it is spelled. and it will not matter if the Israel or USA does the deed.

the lack of using our own resources, and the determination of the GREENS and the LIBERALS to block any exploration or extraction of know reserves of billions of barrels of oil, ANWR, the oil shale of western states, off shore oil, (you know CHINA and CUBA is drilling off the coast of Florida but we can not by law, Google it).

and you can throw the EPA in there with there rules and regulations, (any time you create obstacles you remove free enterprise), (example: is the licensing issues many of you are so excited about there has been a restriction on free enterprise, no licence no work, the oil says you require unreasonable requirements no oil, drop the requirement we will refine oil. make rules and you block free enterprise.)

ANY fool could see this building for the last 30 years, and yet the democrats have blocked the exploration and extraction of oil and energy now setting the country to be held hostage by the middle east, and yet there so blind they still refuse to open up the areas,

who takes more money out of your pocket "big oil" or "government" your right if you guess government nearly 50 cents of ever gallon is tax, 18.4 is federal and what ever your state takes,

Big oil defends there profits the same as you do as a plumber, they take there costs and take a percentage of it, if the base cost rise then there "profit rises by that percentage". record raw material prices record profits, and if you own some stock you get some of it. so should we blame stock holders.

you may say tax them on there profits, OK who will pay the tax, YOU AND I WILL, when you pay taxes on your business who pays, the customer does, you pass the cost along, don't you?

YOUR blaming big oil for high gas prices,
But when a home owner blames you for high plumbing prices, he is full of $hit, you deserve ever penny you charge, and you can justify ever cost and why. Why your only charging the cost of production and materials and labor and some to pocket.

Push sticks/blocks Save Fingers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good."
attributed to Samuel Johnson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
PUBLIC NOTICE: Due to recent budget cuts, the rising cost of electricity, gas, and oil...plus the current state of the economy............the light at the end of the tunnel, has been turned off.

Comment

I realized that I really don't get it. I mean I understand the way oil is speculated and how it drives the prices, but what caused this?

As a pinko Bush hater, my mind automatically follows a certain path. Here it is, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or unclear, because this is only stuff I have picked up and pieced together. I know it isn't complete, and I know it is more complicated than this, but follow me if you dare.

Bush, a former oil man with strong family ties to, and a cabinet that is a who's who of the oil industry gets in office 7.5 years ago and immediately tries to open drilling in Alaska and offshore. It gets rejected.

Other energy companies , ie Enron, artificially create energy crisis by shutting down supply and causing brown outs and rolling blackouts raising prices in Cali. This ends up having political implications as well as the price gouging that runs rampant.

The continuous shut down of refineries and ambiguous things such as "unrest in the middle east" drive prices to double while oil companies make record profits every quarter. Meanwhile, some of the unrest in the middle east that has been, for better or worse, was caused by our invasion of the second biggest oil reserve in the world. Promises were made of oil production not only to be back up and running strong within 6 months of the invasion, but that it would also pay the tab for the reconstruction of the country. Does not happen, tax payer pay a cost equivalent to 70 years of Social Security for our own people for that whole project instead. And counting.

With less than a year in office left, suddenly oil raises so sharply we see gas prices, already having doubled, double again. Most of this after Bush visits Saudi Arabia and asks for increased production to cover a demand that, I'm sorry I may be naive, also DOUBLED in that time? They say no. Really?

People feel the pain for real now. It has gone from a minor hurt to harming the economy and peoples ability to survive. You start to hear about how we should be drilling offshore and in Alaska, but the silly libs didn't want it all along. You start hearing about how much oil we'd get and little damage it will cost to our coast and wildlife preserve. The fact that the same companies who are making record profits on this "shortage" now will be subsidized, again by the tax payer, to explore these avenues you don't hear so much. The fact that these same companies are not drilling or producing nearly what is possible from the places they ARE allowed to now, well again, not so much.

So now, right before the term is up, we get softened up toward giving our money and land to the people who are profiting from our misery, in an industry that has been shown to be able to price gouge.

But it is irrelevant that the secretary of state had an oil tanker named after her because she was so important to these companies before she took office. No conflict of interest.

So, war for oil you say hippies? What oil? You stupid hippies! My gas is more expensive and we are not even gettin any out of Iraq! Bushes oil war! Pffft!

What's this? The major oil companies have now been given back the contracts previously lost under the regime of the dictator we ousted in the very awful and expensive war? Yes, that oil. And just for the record, this stupid hippy never once thought that the war for oil was to make it cheaper for the consumer. It was always to make the rich richer. Guess we really will be there 100 years to protect their renewed $ interests in Iraq. Wonder if they get the coast and Alaska cracked too?

The company that has got and will get the contracts to rebuild and set up oil fields in Iraq was presided over by our now VP. No problem! No conflict of interest. BTW the fact that the recent whistle blowing had three insiders claiming fraud was somewhere between 30-80% of the billing they handled, also irrelevant.

Even if you absolutely believe that all of this was on the up and up, what the hell ever happened to conflict of interest? It should not be allowed even the APPEARANCE of impropriety. I've said it before, but I don't think this is what the founding fathers had in mind for their system.

Eli

PS $5.07 regular.

Eli, I think you are dead on correct with all your thoughts. Heard on cable news that if there was no investment allowed on oil futures price per barrel would be $65-$70 and gas around $2.00 a gallon. Perhaps our legislators will consider this area of investment to be a threat to our economy and suspend such transactions? I seriously don't see how our economy can sustain these prices, people are suffering and once it reaches heating season I hate to think how many people young and old will go cold and possibly die. Unfortunately I don't think there will be any government intervention and with the probability of at least one or more strong hurricanes this season things will only get worse. So what's the solution? What can or will be done to turn this around?

Comment

I realized that I really don't get it. I mean I understand the way oil is speculated and how it drives the prices, but what caused this?

As a pinko Bush hater, my mind automatically follows a certain path. Here it is, and please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or unclear, because this is only stuff I have picked up and pieced together. I know it isn't complete, and I know it is more complicated than this, but follow me if you dare.

Bush, a former oil man with strong family ties to, and a cabinet that is a who's who of the oil industry gets in office 7.5 years ago and immediately tries to open drilling in Alaska and offshore. It gets rejected.

Other energy companies , ie Enron, artificially create energy crisis by shutting down supply and causing brown outs and rolling blackouts raising prices in Cali. This ends up having political implications as well as the price gouging that runs rampant.

The continuous shut down of refineries and ambiguous things such as "unrest in the middle east" drive prices to double while oil companies make record profits every quarter. Meanwhile, some of the unrest in the middle east that has been, for better or worse, was caused by our invasion of the second biggest oil reserve in the world. Promises were made of oil production not only to be back up and running strong within 6 months of the invasion, but that it would also pay the tab for the reconstruction of the country. Does not happen, tax payer pay a cost equivalent to 70 years of Social Security for our own people for that whole project instead. And counting.

With less than a year in office left, suddenly oil raises so sharply we see gas prices, already having doubled, double again. Most of this after Bush visits Saudi Arabia and asks for increased production to cover a demand that, I'm sorry I may be naive, also DOUBLED in that time? They say no. Really?

People feel the pain for real now. It has gone from a minor hurt to harming the economy and peoples ability to survive. You start to hear about how we should be drilling offshore and in Alaska, but the silly libs didn't want it all along. You start hearing about how much oil we'd get and little damage it will cost to our coast and wildlife preserve. The fact that the same companies who are making record profits on this "shortage" now will be subsidized, again by the tax payer, to explore these avenues you don't hear so much. The fact that these same companies are not drilling or producing nearly what is possible from the places they ARE allowed to now, well again, not so much.

So now, right before the term is up, we get softened up toward giving our money and land to the people who are profiting from our misery, in an industry that has been shown to be able to price gouge.

But it is irrelevant that the secretary of state had an oil tanker named after her because she was so important to these companies before she took office. No conflict of interest.

So, war for oil you say hippies? What oil? You stupid hippies! My gas is more expensive and we are not even gettin any out of Iraq! Bushes oil war! Pffft!

What's this? The major oil companies have now been given back the contracts previously lost under the regime of the dictator we ousted in the very awful and expensive war? Yes, that oil. And just for the record, this stupid hippy never once thought that the war for oil was to make it cheaper for the consumer. It was always to make the rich richer. Guess we really will be there 100 years to protect their renewed $ interests in Iraq. Wonder if they get the coast and Alaska cracked too?

The company that has got and will get the contracts to rebuild and set up oil fields in Iraq was presided over by our now VP. No problem! No conflict of interest. BTW the fact that the recent whistle blowing had three insiders claiming fraud was somewhere between 30-80% of the billing they handled, also irrelevant.

Even if you absolutely believe that all of this was on the up and up, what the hell ever happened to conflict of interest? It should not be allowed even the APPEARANCE of impropriety. I've said it before, but I don't think this is what the founding fathers had in mind for their system.

Eli

PS $5.07 regular.

Im not doubting what you say is true, but if it is then if Obama wins we will definitely be out of Iraq and Bush's gas interests will be gone and he can bring that back to an accepable level?

Comment

I would really look foreward to the government taking over the oil industry. They do such a fine job of running things now.

Obama won't do Jack about oil and gas prices. He does not have the experiance nor the brains to do anything about it. Besides which, last time I checked we were still a Democracy (ok representative republic) Not a socialist state. We live in a capitalist nation. I don't like the price of energy, but I damn sure don't want the government running that show.

Take a look at who's currently drilling for oil off the coast of california and in the gulf of mexico. That would be damn near every nation but us.

It took us just 7 years to put a man on the moon and the democrats tell us that it would take at least 10 years to get oil from the gulf or anwar?

That's how democrats deal with all issues. By being the party of gloom and doom. Always what can't be done, never what is possible. All problems and no solutions.

Obama, to date has offered NO SOLUTIONS to ANY ISSUES. Not one single plan. Just Change, change, change. The man is a charlitan and a shill, who's whole career has centered around political expediency. If you think this fool is going to be our savior than god help us all.

I'm also sick of the thoery that George Bush is somehow in the pocket of the oil industry and is just trying to make his buddies and himself rich. Why? He's already got all the money he needs and so do his friends. Do you really think he would take that kind of risk? Say what you like about Mr. Bush. He brought integrity back to the presidency after that lying rapist held the office and dragged the nation through the muck for 8 years.

And yes, Bush's approval rating is very very low, but the Democratic congresses rating is 10 points below that.

Comment

And yes, Bush's approval rating is very very low, but the Democratic congresses rating is 10 points below that.

I have never heard anyone I know say that they received a call from a polling company to ask of Bush's approval rating. I've always wondered where they get this info from. How do we know if it's tainted or not? Maybe they leave Republicans out of the mix, who knows.