Saturday, December 01, 2007

CFB: Effing Bedlam! Who's Number 2?

I don't like to swear, but holy shit, it's fucking bedlam in college football. How appropriate, for the craziest season ever.

So: Who would YOU pick as No. 2?

UGA is next in line, based on last week's rankings, but I can't see taking UGA over LSU, either through the BCS' human or computer polls: LSU has the same number of losses, one more win total, better wins overall (tougher schedule) and a conference championship from the SEC.

I think it will be LSU. It's hard to bash them for losing to Arkansas at home last week when they just won the SEC title this week. (If the early comments are any indication, LSU has the inside edge. The ubiquitous BCS "analyst" Jerry Palm has LSU in the title game.)

Oklahoma just beat the No. 1 team in the country, but I can't get over those two decisive losses against unranked opponents. (LSU at least went to multiple OTs against both.)

Don't even say USC: You can't lose at home to a 41-point underdog and deserve to play for the national title, all other factors relatively equal.

Virginia Tech can't get past the clubbing they took from LSU earlier in the season.

Kansas couldn't beat the team Oklahoma beat twice. Hawaii? The perfect season is BCS-bowl-worthy, but hardly national-title-game worthy.

(UPDATE in the A.M.: It's interesting to see what seemed like an insanely confusing situation late last night coalesce this morning around the seeming inevitability of LSU's worthiness and selection ahead of others, like Oklahoma or Virginia Tech or USC, let alone Georgia or Kansas. That's fine for picking two teams to play for the title, but won't stop the "split title" scenario... keep reading below for more on that.)

A note about Ohio State: Congrats, Buckeyes fans. In a season where teams are losing their title shots on the field, it's refreshing to see a team win their title shot off the field, by backing into it like no team in college football history. (Even Oklahoma from a few years ago.)

If it makes OSU-haters feel any better, OSU fans can't possibly feel good about playing another SEC champ in the NCG. Of course, Buckeye fans were awfully confident heading into LAST year's NCG, too. (Presumably, they will display more humility this year.)

It would be entirely appropriate in a season as unprecedentedly insane as this one for OSU to lose in the national title game, likely creating a split national title (see below). No, that's not a prediction... yet.

(Wrapping in the other big story from yesterday, wouldn't it be interesting if the guy who turned down Michigan to stay at LSU showed Michigan what they missed out on by beating Ohio State when it mattered most, with his LSU team? You just KNOW Les Miles hates Ohio State as much as any Michigan man would/should.)

Bottom line: This season won't (and can't) end well. How glorious.

By the way: I think we will have a split champ, unless Ohio State beats whoever they play in the national title game (and I'm through making predictions... at least for now!). Wouldn't it be ironic for LSU to make/win the NCG only to be involved in yet another "split" title?

So if you're the Rose Bowl, do you use your Ohio State "replacement" pick (No. 1 overall) to create a traditional Pac-10/Big Ten matchup (Illinois?) or do you try to generate momentum to position your bowl as a de facto alternative (AP) title game by yoinking, say, Georgia?

(The Rose can't pick Oklahoma, because the Big 12 champ is obligated to go to the Fiesta Bowl if they aren't in the NCG. My understanding is that because Georgia didn't win the SEC, the Sugar isn't guaranteed to have them. I could be wrong. I was so very wrong about West Virginia, wasn't I?)

- D.S.

(PS: Speaking of "backing into it," I think Tim Tebow clinched the Heisman, with the losses of Chase Daniel and Pat White's teams. McFadden has a shot, too. We go from "You've got to invite 4 to NYC!" to "Do we have to have more than 2?")

I'm sorry for Georgia because they are going to get screwed. I can't pick them over LSU when LSU only lost 2 games in a combined 6 OTs. Virginia Tech lost to LSU by 35 points, so they're out. Kansas is out because they chose not to beat anybody in the Top 25. I mean LSU won the SEC without their leaders on offense and defense. This system sucks because we have to have this conversation. Give me a playoff and make it simple.

"If BOTH Missouri and West Virginia lose... well, that's just not happening.

Did you see what West Virginia did to the next-best team in their conference, when WVU realized they had to impress the nation? They hung 66 on them.

They ran up the score, because they knew they had to, in order to silence any doubt spread from, say, Columbus. Those 'Eers are one cut-throat bunch of s.o.b.'s; they ain't losing to Dave Wannstedt with a trip to the national championship game on the line."

Remember that? Yeah, you friggin wrote it on Deadspin.

Guess what, the Panthers just won baby! Don't even try to pretend like you weren't taking a crap on Pitt before this game.

By the way, we don't want you on the LeSean McCoy Heisman bandwagon next year or the year after.

LSU was #1 twice and could not make it happen. They lost LAST WEEK!!! They have not been dominating games since September.

UGA was #4 last week when everyone knew they could not play in SEC title game. They have been hottest team in country. Best Frosh RB in nation, and rocket armed QB. Punked Florida and beat Auburn by 25!!! Auburn doesn't lose in the SEC by 25!!!

I have a hard time choosing between LSU and Oklahoma. But that may be because I'm giving Oklahoma too much credit for the Missouri wins. LSU probably has the overall better case, but those are the two teams it should come down to.

"Good thing it'll be a moot point: West Virginia simply isn't losing at home to Pitt with the national-title on the line. Quickie Curse, be damned. As for Missouri, they nearly beat OU in Norman, and MU QB Chase Daniel is playing as well as anyone in the country right now. And MU-WVU will be one of the most entertaining national-title games of all time." DS Awesome...

I say it has to be a team that won its conference championship. Either LSU, USC or Va Tech. With the WVU loss, no Big East team is in the mix. With Missouri loss, you could make a case for Oklahoma though. I say LSU personally because (a) I think they are the most talented team, (b) both losses were in OT.

Comments about needing a playoff are moot because despite common sense, it will never happen.

I've got no love for Ohio State, but stop saying a team "backs in" to something because they are idle the week before. Ohio State played the 12 games they are allowed under NCAA rules and won all but one of them. You can crap on their schedule, but they didn' "back in" because they were idle this week. That's just stupid. They are where they are because of what they did on the field.

I know this won't happen, but why not Kansas? Instead of looking at best wins, look at best losses. They finished tied for the Big XII North at 11-1 (7-1) and lost the tie breaker to Missouri (who will probably end up in the 5-8 range. So Missouri lost to OU twice, and that means what? OU lost to Colorado, does that mean Colorado is a better team? On that day maybe, but overall.. hell no.

So why not Kansas? Their non-conference schedule. Didn't hurt Ohio State, who finished with the same record just had the other teams in the Big 10 lose more than just once unlike what happened in the Big XII North. Their non-conference hilight was Washington, KU's was Central Michigan, who by the way won the MAC yesterday.

So why not Kansas? Oh yeah, that's right, they're Kansas and not a big name school.

Richt had the best point. There is no rule that you have to win your conference to play for the title and the voters knew last week that Georgia wasn't going to win the title.

I would love to see my alma mater play Ohio State, but I think it will be LSU.

I'm not sure how in that scenario since the Rose and Sugar lose a team to the title game, and I don't know who has the first pick. If the Rose has the first pick they should take UGA and the winner of that game could have a claim for a share of the title.

If Ainge doesn't throw that horrible pass we may not be having this conversation. LSU has lost 2 times since Georgia last lost.

Oklahoma just beat the No. 1 team in the country, but I can't get over those two decisive losses against unranked opponents. (LSU at least went to multiple OTs against both.)

I have no love for OU, but lets be fair. They lost by 7 and by 3. Both were on the road. The last game they lost when their QB got brained on the first series and couldn't go back in. These losses are no more "decisive" than the two LSU losses.

After what he's done the last two weeks, I don't know how you can say "Heisman" without immediately saying "Brennan". He's getting an invite to NY, and I wouldn't be shocked if he's #2 or #3 in voting (He should be #1).

well...I'm not going to hide...I was at Heinz Field last night at a Christmas party with my wife, and I had to suffer the worst defeat of my life in a room full of Pitt fans. All the ladies dancing, all the men crowded behind the bar watching the game. Even the Pitt fans felt sorry for me after it was over...most of them had given up before the game started and no one cared, funny how that all changed once WVU didn't show up.

There really are no excuses for the loss...we played tight, Pitt's D showed up and played great, and eventually McCoy wore us down. I won't give any credit to Wannstedt, but the Pitt players were awesome last night. Anything can happen in a rivalry game, this wasn't USC losing to Stanford, but the stakes were much higher. Does any of this make me feel better??? Not a chance

What a weird day of college football. From the Les Miles thing, to the 1 & 2 teams losing. Pretty typical for this year I suppose.

I am not really disappointed that Miles isn't going to take the Michigan job. Now this forces Michigan to go out and find the best possible coach instead of the best possible coach with Michigan ties. As I've said repeatedly, Miles never really impressed me much.

I agree with Gonzo. How do you say they backed in when they played 12 weeks straight without losing one. Maybe the Big 10 shouldn't play a game for the first few weeks just so they end at the same time everyone else does. How bout other conferences start playing 12 weeks straight. That would even things out too.

I don't quite understand the aversion to a non-conference champ. In all pro sports there are wild card non-division winners that win their championships (although they get there through a playoff thus earn it more) but it shouldn't be ruled out, I don't think that a non-conference champ is worthy of a title game appearance.Also if there are any pac-10 football people here, i keep haring that USC is playing the best football but I haven't seen it at all. who have they beat and even more so who have they absolutely blown out?

Dan, it was absolutely absurd that Stanford was a 41-point underdog to begin with (or even a 21 point underdog); they ended up 4-8 overall and 3-6 in the Pac 10. Hardly the epic level of suck that makes a team a 41-point dog, especially when half of USC's offensive line was on the bench. They lost by a field goal when their offense was decimated by injuries.

So yes, I am going to USC deserves to be in the BCS title game, at least, more than anyone else save Ohio State does (because Ohio State likely gets to play LSU, though, the Buckeyes will win). They won their conference, are playing very well now (and LSU isn't; they should have lost to Tennessee yesterday), and haven't already been kicked out the championship game contenders club twice.

Geez, everyone else's resumes are so crappy, this might be an excuse to invite Hawaii. Of *course* they're not really #2, but what the hell....Might as well piss off EVERYONE, rather than just everybody-but-whoever-gets-to-play-the-Buckeyes.

Shanoff, can we for one second get some credit for a Pitt victory? This team is on the right path. With any type of productive QB, the Panthers would have been AT LEAST 7-5, maybe up to 9-3. That was not a bad team that beat the 'neers, it was a team on the rise and the '08 Big East Champs!

Just so my allegiances are known, I'm a non-Michigan, non-tOSU Big Ten fan, with no horse in this race.

I would be perfectly fine with the BCS having a rule saying that you have to win your conference championship to have a spot in the title game. But they don't. And because they don't, I don't see how you can exclude Georgia. If the polls were being done right now without worrying about the whole national title game element, Georgia would finish second. There is no way LSU or anyone else would jump ahead of them if voters were just ranking who they thought the best teams in the country were without looking at the championship game. (Hell, if pollsters were doing that, tOSU probably drops out of the conversation. And I am more than fine with that.) It will be incredibly interesting to see what sort of split there is between the human and computer polls.

As a big Michigan fan, this entire Les Miles thing has disgusted me. I hope that Sweater vest goes into Miles' backyard and beats him good. LSU is NOT that good. Definitely overrated. Hope the Bucks can pull one out for the Big Ten.

I really can't agree with the "Backing into it" comment about Ohio State. They played 12 games. It is only a schedule quirk that has them finishing sooner than other teams, but it isn't like other teams have played 14 or 15 games. Had Ohio State beaten Michigan this past weekend, there would be no "backing in" commentary.

Just thought I'd throw it out there, because it is just getting silly.

I think it should be Ohio State v Oklahoma, personally. Mainly for the coaches...Stoops v Tressel would be great...Tressel v Miles? Uhh...there's a reason Buckeye fans hoped Michigan would nab him.

I second the Brennan for Heisman. I really am split between Tebow and Brennan. I watched Brennan twice this year and he is no fluke. I believe he will be a starter in the NFL. I really would love to see a QB from a lesser team win it instead of the best QB for a top BCS team.

Tell me again how OSU is "backing in" to the title game? Would you say the same for USC if they make it over LSU? Wait, LSU has 2 losses, OSU has 1. So because LSU plays a 13th game they are validated and OSU is not?

Please.

This is the season (finally) where you have teams lose the games that they "Should have lost to..."

2002 OSU "should have lost to Purdue"

2004 USC "should have lost to Stanford"

2005 USC "should have lost to ASU and ND"

This year we finally had higher ranked teams falling in these games. Though you can make the case that LSU "should have lost to Florida, Alabama, Auburn and Tennessee"

I don't know if it is the 85 scholarship rule or steroids in all our beef, but if this is the future of CFB then the BCS is screwed and thank GOD.

According to ESPN the Rose Bowl is the only thing standing in the way of an 8 team playoff keeping the bowls in the system...I SAY THEN WE BURN IT DOWN!

Until the Big 10 conference realizes that it's the 21st century and has a championship game like all the other major athletic conferences, any team from that conference, whether it's Ohio State, Michigan, or whoever, will be "backing in" if they're named to play in the BCS title game.So, assuming that OSU will be one team in the title game, who should the opponent be? Speaking as a die-hard Gator fan, I would say (and it PAINS me to say this!!) it should be Georgia. Florida lost to both LSU and Georgia, but Georgia really put a hurting on the Gators. LSU, on the other hand, was behind until halfway through the 4th quarter of the UF-LSU game. I hope Tebow will be able to lift the Heisman truphy next week with one hand! :-)

If the Rose bowl selects Illinois to keep the Big 10 - Pac 10 thing, this would be horrendous. Illinois is a 3 loss team that is going to just barely qualify in the top 14. It may sound silly after the type of season we've had, but none of those games really appeal to me as "must watch"

If Georgia gets match with USC, that's a must watch. And of course I hope Kansas gets put in the BCS, but that's the homer pick.

I'm tired of hearing about Ohio State "backing into" the title game. Gonzo, you're exactly right. Ohio State has lost one game in a twelve game season. Did any of the other contenders do that? (The answer is no, the other contenders needed to play a 13th game to win 11.)

It defies logic to say they are backing in, because what you are really saying is that if OSU had delayed their game with Michigan and beat them this week instead of beating them two weeks ago, that somehow would make OSU a better and more deserving team.

As far as LSU jumping Georgia, if this all happened three weeks ago Georgia would simply move up to #2. But since it is the last week of the season everyone wants to handle it differently and rejigger the order. This completely invalidates the whole process of in-season polls.

If LSU goes to the championship game then the Rose Bowl and Sugar Bowl would have both lost a team. I wonder which one gets first pick of a replacement?

I think the NCAA should conduct an investigation of the Big East. It looked to me like someone talked to the referees at halftime of the WVA-Pitt game and said "do what it takes to get a Big East team into the National Championship Game".

So we could have two national championship games Ohio St vs LSU and USC vs Georgia and then everyone can get angry on January 8th. I think it's great.

But if you are like me and want to stick it to the BCS you vote Hawaii #1 and try to get them in the National Championship game. Then all those BCS Conference commissioners would be crapping their pants and it would be great.

PS: I actually think Hawaii could beat OSU.

Extra PS: Depressing day here in Columbia, MO. So close to a national championship game and now nothing, only a Cotton Bowl or Holiday Bowl. Potentially two teams (Kansas & Illinois) who we beat will make BCS games over us. What a shame to a bad system.

If you use the logic that's being used to make Ohio St. #1, set at home and move up in the polls if the teams ahead of you loose, then you have to use that same logic with every other team. That would put Georgia in the NC.

If you want teams with the fewest losses then you have to consider OSU, KU, and even Hawaii

If you only want Conference Champions in the NC. Then it could be OSU, LSU, Va-Tech, USC, or Oklahoma. I'd leave out Oklahoma becasue they haven't done enough to jump LSU, Va-Tech, or USC. USC would be out due to the loss to the 41 point dog. Va-Tech loss to LSU so that leaves LSU playing OSU.

All of you BC$ lovers crack me up. Your arguments change every season depending on what best suits you (as do your "rules" as demonstrated so clearly with the hasty last-minute rule-change this year).

"The regular-season is a defacto playoff" - Ummm.. yeah. That's why the two teams with the longest winning streaks AREN'T playing for the NC.

"It's better to lose early then to lose late" - Ummm.. yeah.

"We can't have a playoff... it would hurt academics, scheduling, etc." - Ummm.. yeah. That's why all of the other levels of football do it... http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/college_football/20071130-1629-fbc-nancyarmour-113007.html

Just admit that this whole system is BROKEN. The only reason it is not being fixed with an OBVIOUS solution is because of $$$$$$$. The amount of $$$$ involved in the BCS is so much that you can't help but think that it is affecting the "impartial" nature of the officiating. (See the Pitt game last night... what a blatant show of no-calls or crap-calls I have ever seen).

The answer is simple, a 16-team playoff... I love the plan put forth by Dan Wetzel here: http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaf/news?slug=dw-playoff112707&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

It's simple. It's fair, and it would improve college football immeasurably and would generate HUGE amounts of viewership and $$$$$. Some of the bowls would suffer, and some of the crooks that run them would lose some money, but SOOOOO WHAT?

This year is the biggest mess ever. The system is broken, please admit it, and let's scrap the system NOW and put a playoff into place. Complaints would still remain about seeding, but WHO CARES? You think you are "all that"... then win your games. Period. Even fans from the supposed "lower tier" conferences like me wouldn't have any reason to complain if we merely had access.

This has to be my favorite quote ever: "The perfect season is BCS-bowl-worthy, but hardly national-title-game worthy."

Just in case anyone out there was wondering why people think the BCS is a crock of shit, just look at that quote. It says it all.

Georgia is not getting screwed. They aren't even the best team in their conference. Same goes for Kansas.

West Virginia, on the otherhand IS screwed. They have exactly the same claim as LSU, OU, USC and VT. Someone needs to explain why they aren't in the dscussion anymore. They lost? Yeah well so did the other guys.

But the team that's screwed more than anyone else...HAWAII! Ohio State vs. Hawaii is the most fair pairing out there.

i feel great that people like you saw we are backing in, with the way this season played out, everyone would have backed in due to everyone else losing. we won our conference and deserve to be here. i will say that if lsu, or WVU, or mizzou, or kansas would have taken care of business then no arguement here, they deserve to be there.

but news flash...lsu couldnt beak a bad arkansas team, and mizzou got thumped by OU, and kansas lost to mizzou and WVU chocked at home to pitt..TO PITT!!!

this season is one of the best and haters like you can say all you want about the buckeyes backing in. still doesnt change the fact that the title game was sitting for teams to grab it, and none of them did.

and im fine with playing LSU(if that is who it is) gives us the chance to win and shut all you people up

Ohio State is NOT backing in more than Oklahoma did. Oklahoma actually lost their conference championship. And, Dan, do you still feel that all the voters that had Hawaii in their Top 25 should have their credentials revoked? I stopped reading your blog for a while when I tried to comment and it told me I had to be on "the team" or something, wiping out a good 3 paragrpahs. What's up with the comment moderation? Did you have someone trying to dive-bomb the comments section? Because I really totally missed that.

AP Poll today has OSU #1 and LSU #2. So as long as these are the two teams the BCS picks for the title game, there will not be a split champ. If LSU beats OSU, the AP Poll would not be able to justify giving their "title vote" to anyone other than the #2 team that just beat the #1 team. Sorry, Dan.

so football comes down to arguing whos losses are better, how many points you lose by, and where you loss at?? a loss is a loss is a loss... any given Saturday... pretty much anyone can win each week... unless you are Notre Dame... that is why they play the games!

The field was all covered so I have no clue...what I do know is that is basically has been raining here since last night at about 10pm. Not good!!!

and yes, my Mountaineers choked...but is Pitt that bad that everyone thinks it was greater than Appy State beating Michigan?? Michigan had no pressure on them at the time...people gotta remember, these kids are between 18 and 22 typically, anything really can happen.

I also can say that Pitt is much improved this year since the beginning. Starting a lot of skill true freshmen...they are starting to come together, and that's great for the Big East and sadly, but gladly, it made the Backyard Brawl extremely relevant again.

Thanks so much for giving LSU credit for a tougher schedule and losses in triple overtime only.

It seems to me that LSU played the toughest schedule ever. If they do not get credit for that schedule then, inevitably, they will weaken their schedule and our enjoyment of college football. I say LSU is number one, walking away. I expect them to be Ohio State by 13 points. I am not an LSU fan.

Can't argue USC over Kansas. Again except for the fact that one is USC and the other is Kansas.

I also don't really agree about having to win the conference championship, not when there's conferences that don't have them. If the Big XII had no conference championship like the Big 10, here's what you see at the top:

Missouri (7-1)Kansas (7-1)Oklahoma (6-2)

Georgia, Tennesee, and LSU would all be 6-2 and rely on some tiebreaker to determine the champ.

Interesting stat from Posnanski at the KC Star this morning. In the 12 year history of the Big XII, 5 times a team with a chance to go to the BCS title game has lost. (OU lost but still went that one time)

Speaking of Heisman, a sophomore QB became the 2nd Div-1A player (Vince Young) to pass for 3,000 and run for 1,000 in a season, and it's not Tebow. Introducing Central Michigan's Dan LeFevour: 3,360 passing, 23 TD's; 1,008 rushing, 17 TD's, 6.5 YPC.

To those calling for the Big 10 to have a championship game, realize that you have to have 12 teams in order to have a conference championship game according to the NCAA. Even though they can't count and have 11, they are still one school short.

As for championship games, if Missouri had split with Oklahoma, who is the better team?

For that matter, LSU won the SEC without ever playing Georgia. Guess LSU got lucky due to a scheduling quirk that they didn't have to play the best team in the SEC this year.

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DanShanoff.com is a sports-blog spin-off of my long-time ESPN.com column, "The Daily Quickie." Anchored by an early-morning post of must-know topics, the blog is updated frequently throughout the day with new posts and user comments.