FTA:How can the Nazi's and the KKK have their free speech protected at all cost (and believe me, the overtime cost to pay for all the police is coming out of YOUR pocket), yet an LGBTQ woman peacefully holding a sign can be savegely attacked by the police -- in 2013?

Because the racists were quietly walking down the street exercising their right to peaceful assembly and protest, while the LGBTQ woman was hurling insults and obscenities and frothing at the mouth and generally being the violent and threatening one?

Two things stand out for me about this article. The first is the author's desire to have the police stand down and let the mob tear the KKK and Nazi's to pieces. I get it. I really do. They're despicable. But no cop is going to allow a mob of angry people attack another group that is peacefully marching in broad daylight. That's called civil disorder, and it's the exact thing that cops are there to prevent.

The second is that this is some quality trolling on the part of the racists. Atlanta is majority black town, with a black mayor and (I'd be willing to bet) a majority black police force. The scene of an angry mob attacking the peaceful KKK and Nazi demonstrators is EXACTLY the scene they wanted to create. Good on the cops for stopping it and not giving them fuel to throw on the national news cycle.

Lionel Mandrake:I assume they outnumbered by counter-protesters like 50:1 as usual?

Yes. Unfortunately, the author of TFA apparently didn't bring a camera. If it actually happened the way the author described, the police "assault" on the counter-demonstrator should have been recorded.

Unfortunately, many anti-racists still haven't learned the important lesson that mockery is a better weapon than anger. Those racist s**tstains thrive on anger, but they wither under mockery every time.

It's funny how white supremacists show the supposed supremacy of the melanin-challenged by thinking and acting like un-evolved beasts. It's like North Korea showing its military supremacy by driving around in a 50-year-old tank held together by chewing gum and duct tape.

Seriously, you ass-clowns, all you're doing is showing your own inferiority. If the tone of someone's skin makes you this retarded, something is wrong with your life. Take a step back and reflect on it. Or throw yourselves off a tall bridge, whichever gets rid of you quicker.

Which is a perfect recipe for disaster -- and exactly what the Nazi's [sic], the KKK, and countless other hate groups thrive on. They want us to be complacent. They want us to think racism is a thing of the past.

lolwut?

I'm not saying the KKK and Nazis are the brightest bulbs, but I don't think even they are dumb enough to put on their silly costumes and "parade" in a major city in an effort to convince people that racism is dead.

FloydA:Unfortunately, many anti-racists still haven't learned the important lesson that mockery is a better weapon than anger. Those racist s**tstains thrive on anger, but they wither under mockery every time.

This is a very important point. While many people are likely sympathetic to the desire to respond to such ugly views with anger and/or violence, they don't realize that such a response will only strengthen the resolve of those who hold these views. It's important keep in mind that many of these far-right groups approach their beliefs in a similar manner to those of religious fundamentalists both in the absolutism of their views and that they view their movements as a form of purity fighting against a corrupt world. When counter-protestors respond with hostility, they view this as a moral victory and as evidence that reinforces their beliefs. I recommend checking out the documentary Blood in the Face: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101479/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1, which is mostly footage of members of these movements explaining their view of the world. While released in 1991, it's a little disturbing how some of the ideas mentioned in the film have more recently shown up amongst the tea party groups.

Back to the point of counter protests, if you want to discourage these people, either ignore them or don't let them think that you are taking them seriously. Instead of shouting angrily at them, try something like acting out scenes from The Producers or The Great Dictator.

Relevant:The trouble with fighting for human freedom is that one spends most of one's time defending scoundrels. For it is against scoundrels that oppressive laws are first aimed, and oppression must be stopped at the beginning if it is to be stopped at all. - H.L. Mencken

If for no other reason, sheer self-interest tells us to refrain from censoring even the most vitriolic of demagogues because we despise the words they use. Any infringement upon their rights will invariably be used as a precedent for infringing upon the rights of others- including us.

Better than censorship is the power of public mockery. If the hate-mongers among us wish to exercise their Constitutionally-guaranteed rights of free speech and free assembly, they will have to endure the free speech of those who find their ideas and world view despicable. If they can't abide people making fun of their ideas, perhaps they shouldn't have ideas so easily mocked.

"... that laughter is the Gods' best gift, so to the Gods our laughter lift.Aye, thought their wrath the Heavens split,they grant us Scorn, to laugh at it."- Robert Service

Rockstone:Tatsuma: Three Crooked Squirrels: There right to do this, if they applied for the proper permits, etc., is well established. See Skokie. Now it is up to us to ignore them.

No, you know who has a right to do this? Any group that does not openly incite violence against others. Once you cross the line and your whole ideology is based around killing others and advocating so, you lose the right to openly hold marches while everyone ignores your stupid ideas.

Warlordtrooper:I would argue that obscenity is no different then hate speech. Which has been determined to be protected by the first amendment.

You could argue that all you like, but the Supreme Court disagrees. The full thing is a bit too complicated to go into, but the short of it is twofold: First, the Court puts the highest protections of all on political speech. Obscenity isn't political in nature, and attaching it to a statement that IS political doesn't make it so. Hate speech, while vile, is arguably, and perhaps intrinsically, political in nature.

Second, it comes down to viewpoint-based vs. content-based restrictions. The cursing on a sign is purely content-based, since it applies across the board, no matter why someone is using it. There are similar cases where towns put a blanket prohibition on billboards and the like. There still has to be a reason, but the standard is much lower than in: Viewpoint-Based Restrictions, which is prohibiting a certain point of view. A law banning hate speech would fall under this latter category. Imagine a law allowing anti-abortion messages, but prohibiting pro-choice mesages delivered in exactly the same manner. The government can't say "viewpoint-based restriction is okay in this case, but not that case" because there's no hard-and-fast distinction, and creating a case-by-case basis would amount to nothing more than "only the speech we like is permitted," which is EXACTLY what the Court wants to avoid. Result: Viewpoint-based prohibitions are not allowed.

Tats has banged the drum about incitement to violence, but he either doesn't know or is wilfully ignorant of how high a bar "incitement to violence" is. (Taking all bets! Is Tats stupid or dishonest!?) In fact, there are specific cases in relatively recent history that actually did deal with neo-Nazi and Klan rallies where the Court explicitly ruled that the rhetoric didn't rise to incitement of violence. As for Fighting Words, that doesn't mean that "if it makes me want to hit you, that means it's not protected speech." It has a far more nuanced definition, and we should all be very glad of that.

Tatsuma:redsquid: I've been a victim of the exact people this rally was protesting- immigrants. I live in Florida where the government allows ex-pat Cubans to form paramilitary organizations. I see second generation Cubans who can't speak English and refuse to assimilate into the host culture. Meanwhile we have a huge number of Latin gangs and 'guest workers' sending every red cent they can out of the country. This system needs to be fixed.

So on one hand you defend the rights of Nazis and Klansmen, then you turn around and start spewing hatred on Cubans and Latinos and immigrants in general. Not a surprise.

OK let me get this straight- you got beat up by skins when you were younger so you hate them and call for their violent suppression.I get beaten by Cubans and I call for immigration reform and cultural assimilation and I'm 'spewing hatred'? Go back to Isreal you farking moron.Jews don't have a monopoly on victimhood.

the correct response to people that want a repeat of 57 million dead is a beatdown.

Exactly. I don't understand how that's hard to understand, or the fact that incitement to violence/fighting words are not free speech.

THEN WHY IS NO ONE STOPPING THESE GUYS FROM MARCHING?? THEY DO IT ALL THE TIME

Ask yourselfWhy aren't you?

There aren't any where I live, for one.

Oh, also, what they're doing isn't illegal, no matter how much Tats wishes it were.

In Western Mass, there are a few rallies and marches. And to be honest, they're well attended, and mostly by folks who mock and jeer. Here, they tend to focus on the brown folks and Eastern Europeans, because the black folks are fewer, and more likely to fight back, and the yellow folks are organized. The funny thing, as much as they turn their ire on the Quebecois and Eastern Europeans, and their fellow citizens from Puerto Rico, it only gets folks together to collectively mock them.

Don't get me wrong. In prisons, these white power thugs ARE a power to be reckoned with. Our prison system has done far more to cohese these folks than anything outside those walls, and that carries outside the walls, because a lot of cons have a hard time making it, and the gangs they join inside, and owe when they get out do offer them at least something. If we really want to end these hate groups, than taking a bite out of the for profit prison system is going to go a ways towards that end. Guys who wind up going to jail for pot do some decent time, and when they get there, they are faced with taking the protection of groups, or facing that time alone, and fairly vulnerable. La Eme has grown in power because of our prisons as well. If we were a wise people, we might think a bit before we start stockpiling prisoners like a cheap source of labor and a place to dump folks we don't want to educate, or deal with the issues in their communities, but that isn't exactly going to happen any time soon.

Tatsuma:albatros183: tolls yes, Nazis noIgnoring people that want to kill you or your neighbors, helps them.

The way to beat them is to beat them.

and yes there are skinheads in Israel also nazis.

the correct response to people that want a repeat of 57 million dead is a beatdown.

Exactly. I don't understand how that's hard to understand, or the fact that incitement to violence/fighting words are not free speech.

Which in fairness, is exactly why most KKK marches concentrate on "pride" and "unity" and "faith."

Generally they save the incitements to violence until they get home, or in their own meeting houses.

Don't get me wrong: when I was bouncing, I had zero tolerance for skinheads, and certainly had enough incidents with their goofy asses, but simply being isn't a crime. You have to actually wait for them to do something before you jump on them. Which, oddly enough, is a lesson that my own people learned during the Internment here in the US.

The best way to combat these folks isn't by putting a responsive beat down upon them, but to make their rhetoric irrelevant. Much in the same way that the Westboro folks are a sad, sad, sad joke. You watch their asses to be sure, but more and more, the best way to keep them from gaining ground, is to mock them into oblivion. And maybe not elect them to office. Simply being a racist assbag isn't enough for prosecution, and walking while racist isn't REALLY a crime. The idea is to be better than the little fascist sh*tbags...

albatros183:ph0rk: Tatsuma: Smash the fash, not worth having a discussion when a boot to the face has a much better effect on them

Indeed, we should band together in our fear and hatred of fascists. It's us against them. You're with us or against us.

Really did you miss WORLD WAR II?

/you want to argue motivation, you want to argue politics fine but the fact is that Germany tried to take over the world, they murdered 12-18 million because of their race or their politics or their nationality

so yes with 57 million dead we should band together and fight fascists.

I dare you to go up to a WWII vet and tell him what you just said here..

Nazis and Klansmen are in the same category as Juggalos, Christian Fundamentalists and PETA protesters in my book: Crazy/stupid people I try to ignore, because paying attention to them just gives them more legitimacy.

Tatsuma:Forbidden Doughnut: I suspect the real Nazis (Waffen SS especially) would have "those" sort of people exterminated...

They might not accept them in their ranks, but who do you think was a sizable portion of their support base and the cannon fodder they used to go smash up shops while saying they had nothing to do with it?

The SA? ( and their leadership was purged in the Night of the Long Knives by the SS, IIRC)

/ I guess you could say the SA was comprised of redneck-equivalent elements, however...so point taken.

Took my multi-racial daughter to Sea World in San Diego yesterday, and as we were walking, we saw some bald-headed guy with a giant swastika tattoo on the back of his pasty white skull, along with SS bolts on his neck, "Mein Kampf" tattooed on his shoulder, and all sorts of other racist crap.

Seriously?

Way to inject a giant dose of DOUCHE into a nice day. How many people got to "enjoy" this cock-gobbler injecting his shiatty world view into their nice family day? I wish someone would have dumped his ass in the shark tank at feeding time.

Forbidden Doughnut:I suspect the real Nazis (Waffen SS especially) would have "those" sort of people exterminated...

They might not accept them in their ranks, but who do you think was a sizable portion of their support base and the cannon fodder they used to go smash up shops while saying they had nothing to do with it?

How can the Nazi's and the KKK have their free speech protected at all cost (and believe me, the overtime cost to pay for all the police is coming out of YOUR pocket), yet an LGBTQ woman peacefully holding a sign can be savegely attacked by the police -- in 2013?

vpb:I'm not surprised that it growing. The Southern/rural right has gotten itself so worked up that we are lucky they aren't blowing up federal buildings.

This is exactly why people rushed to think the Boston Bombing was homegrown. When you say things like "we came unarmed... THIS time." or "Second amendment solutions" yeah, that's not a very good PR campaign.

To be fair, I think the cops just hate protests in general. It's a volatile situation, people are yelling at them and the cops know they are being filmed the whole time. They have to put up with whiny people on both sides of the fee speech zones and can't smash anyone's face in while trying to keep it orderly.

So I don't think that cop hates gays or loves the kkk. I think the cop probably wanted to throw ALL of them into a jail cell and get back to drinking coffee and eating doughnuts.