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Re: young newbee

Your a good parent and it sounds like a wonderful adventure!

I can't offer much advice but I do think frames are a good idea. You want a hive that is easy to look through without working the bees up. It's easy to pull frames and share all the things in a hive without dealing with angry bees.

Maybe you could also plan for a storage container of sorts so you can keep some of the basics out there?

Re: young newbee

Let me give you a little advice from my limited warre experience. Don't expect magical things from the whole leave the bees alone and everything will go perfectly. False floor effect is real. Swarming and queenless situations are real. Varroa are real. Dead colonies are real. Starvation is real. Without your intervention your bees can succumb to these conditions and perish.

So what I have done to combat false floor effect is to take a partially drawn outer comb and put it in a nadired box. This will also help reduce swarming if you stay on top of things. I also super (I know shame shame). You will need seed combs in the supered box, which is essentially a comb or two placed in the supered box. You can also accomplish this by removing an outer comb and placing it above.

Varroa will have to be monitored and treated when needed with whatever method you prefer.

Feed if necessary. Do not listen to all the natural hububaloo. Feed if necessary. Leave their honey that they need, but feed them if they need it.

Just don't ignore them. I bought into the let them be garbage and just ran into troubles. Hope that helps!

One more thing to consider...Lang 8 frame mediums can get you close to a warre with less headaches and the ability to purchase equipment from suppliers. I will continue to run warres, but I am now using mostly foundationless 8 frame langs.

Re: young newbee

Wow
Very interesting project and nice discussion! As usual - beesource is offering so many suggestions, difficult to choose. There is one more:
- since it is a project for 9-year old, the goal must be (if possible) to succeed in short period of time with limited resources, which IS difficult, so everything should be simple.
- as a beginner beekeeper, I strongly suggest two beehives. Success with one hive is very difficult.
- I strongly suggest to keep bees near the house - search Internet and beesource - people made beautiful platforms to protect bees from the bears etc. It automatically solve bees-presence issue - from platform, they will fly high enough not to bother anybody around the house. Platform, may also function as an adventurous "tree-house" and fun to build. I am very aware of nature, but I feel small platform would not interfere so much with wildness. Crossing the waters to inspect bees sounded fun, but, I am often run a few times in my garage (truck, for others) for something bees needed right now... kayaking back and forth sounded good exercise.
- since you are beginner and limited in resources, beehive in my opinion, should be classical Lang with frames. Yes, I personally is a proponent of "natural beekeeping" and often have arguments with others. I love top bars, foundationless, my hive is a marriage of Lang and Warre... But, look - your agenda is to make sure that your daughter observed success. It is just easier to follow "classical" approach and leave top bars, foundationless etc for later - when bees established, next year. Also - much more support may be found for classical Lang. Warre is great, but as many stated already, I do not think that Ware-approach is designed for top entrance. Also, I was under impression that Warre's boxes are heavy. Langs boxes are heavy too, but frames may be removed and transported separately. The advantage of the frame - it would protect the honeycomb.

Good luck with your project, keep us posted and pictures, pictures!!!!

Re: young newbee

Thank you for all the encouragement, the details are a bit overwhelming. I'm trying to crash course on this, so I can guide my daughter in her choices. Ultimately, it's her show. Great practical advice to keep a tool/supply tote out there! Made me think that we'll get a locking float tote to transport harvest (just in case we leave in haste and dump the kayaks ) Orange flagging on the tools, another good one.

Dan, I hear you too. She's gonna get stung. She's gonna get frustrated. She's gonna cry. The colony could die off a few weeks in. Bears may beat us to the harvest by a mere day. All good lessons to this mom's mind. We will feed when necessary, as we're the ones stranding the poor girls out there. No chems though. We'll do all we can, but, they might just get sick and die. Lessons to be learned there as well.

The only way I'll call it a failure is if she gives up. Otherwise, it's better than a barbie dreamhouse! Plan for success. Try again, fail again, fail better. I can promise you this - they will not be ignored! This kid kisses her houseplants and keeps houseflies in teacup hospice care. No worries on the neglect side, I assure you.

Re: young newbee

Originally Posted by BeeCurious

I would think one last time about possibly using eight frame medium Langstroth boxes...

Good luck!

Agreed. You can still borrow techniques or modifications from other hive styles as you see fit, such as foundationless frames. Chances are that the beekeeper you get your bees from uses langstroth and probably has reasons for doing so that she will share with you.

From my experience, new beekeepers that have new equipment and install a package (shake off) or swarm don't see many pest problems in their first year, so you a little time to learn before you would need to make a decision about treating.

Re: young newbee

We are going with the 8 frame Lang. Medium depth, and possibly shallow later on. As everyone suggested, this meets most of our needs, and keeps it simple for the beginner. We are going to have a top-entrance, and no foundations. A few more questions at this point:

1. We are thinking of doing both top bars and cutting down frames to half-frames. Just for curiosity's sake, to see what they prefer. Is there any problem alternating the two?

2. We have 1x6 and 2x6 Douglas fir on hand. This is close to the Lang depth of 6 5/8". Is "close" good enough, if you have top bars or half-frames? I know that the inside width and length must be exact to the standard.

3. Is there any advantage to using the thicker 2 inch over the 1 inch? That would justify the added weight?

4. Queen excluder - both arguments are convincing. Does leaving it off the first year increase the colony's chances for success? Then, we can revisit it later?

We are having fun examining skyscraper beehives! You thought transporting bees via kayak was different? Daughter suggested a zipline for one of these hive stands. Sometimes it is easy saying no. We do have a large, high, rusty metal platform where a mill was standing back in the 50's. It's far back in the woods, and I've always admonished "stay away!" because the ladder is covered in large, sharp paint (probably lead) chips. I'm gonna take another look

5. What about wind and winter protection for these "high" hives? Do they get moved down for the winter months?

Re: young newbee

Your 1x6' and 2x6" lumber is actually 5 1/2" wide. That is smaller than the height of a "Shallow" super, which is 5 11/16". I would suggest acquiring appropriate lumber to make a standard size medium. If you were determined to use what you have on hand, you could fabricate/glue an extension to the 6" boards such that you can make a 6 5/8" standard medium super.

I don't see any advantage for ever using 2x lumber, especially here where weight is a primary consideration. Some beeks use foamboard insulation in winter months. If you chose to doe this, it could be just tied or strapped around the box stack rather than permanently attached.

Top bars only I understand. But I don't see what you gain from the extra effort of cutting down frames to be half frames?

Most arguments in favor of an excluder revolves around keeping brood out of honey supers intended for harvest. Perhaps you should not expect to get a significant harvest the first year. An excluder is not likely to be of value the first year, IMHO.

"Cinnabar" as a placename in BC is somewhat obscure. I saw one possibility on Vancouver Island, and another in the University of Northern BC Research Centre near Fort St James. Where are you located ... I imagine the climate at those two locations is markedly different.

Re: young newbee

This thread reads like the makings of a TV movie. Absolutely fascinating. Unfortunately, I have no experience to contribute to your adventure, but I am hanging on every post with interest. Come spring, I hope to start with my first two hives, and I thoroughly relate to the information overload regarding all the options available and deciding which best applies to my circumstances, less the bears and other "minutia"

Some forty-odd years ago I travelled to Bowron Lake Provincial Park on a canoeing trip with my father, uncle, brothers and cousins. Absolutely stunning scenery. The drive out from Quesnel to the park left us wondering if we had missed a serious turn, though.

Re: young newbee

Ok, I've gotta chime it too:

I have a top-bar in my backyard. The fences provide good wind shelter, I don't worry about the local wildlife - but if I had bears I would just use electric fences, and if the hive is against one wall of the house you need only fence three sides. Bees have no problem living right next to our houses (if they did they wouldn't live in the walls) and they make ok neighbors - and they smell nice!

Re: young newbee

Yes, we are still waffling on our final design. Some of the other biologists that come out have been chiming in as well; it is becoming a large community collaboration. The recommendation to put it as close to the cabin as possible came up before, Cris. Daughter certainly likes the idea of keeping her bees close. I worry about the bears, and her trying to suit up everyday to pester the poor things. She has a two year old brother as well... bees, electric fencing, monkey see - monkey do

We keep returning to the Warre, because it seems the simplest, both in design and management. Daughter "gets" it, and we can always complicate things later on (more hives, more designs, more locations). Don't give up on us - we will definitely post photos once we figure out what we are doing! This thread, and stalking a few others, have really helped us. Honestly, I had no idea this subculture existed. It's like the first time I went to a Star Trek convention... like coming home

Re: young newbee

The 2y/o will get zapped once by the fence and then he'll learn (just like I did - got nailed once). As for her... get a hive with an observation window (also what I did) so everyone can indulge their curiosity with overly annoying the bees. If you do have a hive that's unncesarily aggressive then re-queen and the problem will usually resolve itself.

Re: young newbee

The view window is a great idea. And it's not really that hard to install. I used plexiglass. And with my husband's guidance, I was able to drill holes into it to screw it onto the hive box. Just make sure you start out with drill bits that make very small holes and use slightly bigger and bigger drill bits till you get the desired hole. And make the hole slightly bigger than the screw so the screw doesn't crack the plexiglass when you screw it in.

Some beeks recommend using glass though cause you could scratch the plexiglass when you have to scrape off the anchored combs on it when it's time to harvest. Unless of course you use frames or half-frames.