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lurker thinking about a summit

Hello, I have been lurking in this forum for a couple of months now and I am thinking about getting a Summit in about 4 months. This means that I will have plenty of time to plan everything that I want such as LIPO's and bulletproofing and such. This also means envy to everyone else who already has a Summit.

I have a job where I am not always home so I will not always have time to make repairs (though I am sure they would be fun to do) so I would like to have a fairly bulletproof setup such as the skid plates and such.
I would also like to have the efficiency of a brushless sensored setup without all the drivetrain problems.

I will have plenty of money to spend at first on this project (tax returns) but I will not have much to spend on it till the wife's minivan is payed off so I would like to get it close to right on the first round or two.

So, to the actual questions: brushless or dewalt? what drivetrain upgrades if I go brushless? Aluminum frame advantages (bigger batteries?) And other questions that I need to ask but am too ignorant to know such as added weight problems, etc. Not planning on 4 wheel steering or FPV though I do admire these.

What I really need is the best of the best list, though everyone is different with different uses. I will be doing trailing, bashing (light jumps maybe) and light rock climbing.

Price limit: doesn't matter as long as it is worth it. And cosmetics are nice but not super high on the list.

Oh yeah, wife wanted me to add that my 3 girls would probably like to drive it every once in a while.

Thanks in advance for helping me with this, I am looking forward to the replies.

I too, debated between brushless and brushed when I was planning my purchase. Once I actually drove the beast, I realized that brushed power in this RC simply works... and works well. The stock 775 is not even that bad of a motor... gobs of torque and it takes a lot of abuse to kill one. With that being said, my next step is going to be a DeWALT... there are a few reasons for this decision...
I am already getting 1.5-2 hours of run time. I don't need more efficiency. I am already snapping shafts with stock power. Why add more if it cannot handle what it has? The differentials are also being pushed to their limits with stock power... brushless will far exceed those limits. I would like to stay water resistant (mine is modified). Sensored brushless systems are not very resistant. Swapping out brushes is cheap on the DeWALT.

This truck is already heavy... adding an aluminum chassis is going to make it a lot heavier. That translates to more broken parts and more down time in my book.

TBR has a decent skid plate set for the arms... I have yet to find a need for anything like that though.

There are aluminum differential cups and hardened gear sets available... but they may still be in the testing stage. The cups have been out for a while and I know those are not a "solve-all" for the differential issues that are exaggerated with brushless power.

SPC makes a killer pack for this platform... I bought some cheap-o 7600's my first go-round, the SPC's will be my next set for the Summit. (I LOVE run time)

Steering servos... I found them to be a little on the weak side, but only when I started crawling. I am sure you have seen my build thread; there are more details within it.

MIP makes a steel shaft set... but here are my thoughts on it:
They have to be set up PERFECT to not break the first time you pull the trigger.
The stock shafts are $7... which is a very cheap and easy to replace fuse.

Shocks... The suspension was way too soft out of the box for me. I currently have the variable damper kit installed with 50wt oil in the front and 50wt oil with a few drops of 10k in the rear running double orange springs all around. This is also described in more detail in my build thread.

Spare parts:
Arms, front and rear
Axles, short and long
Differential, complete
Ring and pinion set
Locker set

This is one of the rare RC's that run very well for what it was built for in stock form... usually a few key upgrades are a minimum requirement.

Thank you Jimmy Neutron, I have indeed looked at your build, many times in fact. I myself was leaning toward the 14.4v Dewalt myself but was wanting other opinions such as yours.

Steel shaft is probably too advanced for me to get it set up just right and having a "fuse" in the system sounds good to me. I was planning on getting the spc 8200mAh, 30C, 2S, 7.4V packs from link http://spcracing.com/index.php?productID=61 that I found in a thread around here somewhere.

Would you recommend stock arms, axles, differential, ring and pinion, & lockers for spare parts or would you rec a different brand?

what is the variable damper kit? Will definitely get the orange shocks.

btw, I drive a dodge sprinter and I was hoping they had a sprinter body somewhere, though I doubt it.

If RPM made a set of arms, I would recommend those hands down as I doubt you would ever break them. But they are being stubborn and refusing to make a set specifically for the Summit.

All other parts are not available in the aftermarket... accept the differential cups and gears as mentioned previously.
If money were no object, I would order them with a set of yellow seal Boca ceramic bearings for the diffs and knuckles.

+1 Jimmie's pretty much got it covered. Having had a Summit for most of this year, the only things I would add would be to make sure your slipper clutch is setup correctly. Also, right out of the box check all servos for proper function. All are easily checked and adjusted. I've replaced my slipper ( after the Dewalt install), and replaced my shifter servo ( misadjustment).

The kids will love it, the youngest to motor mine around is my granddaughter, she will soon turn 6 . It's a great way to get the kids out of the house.

Great post, Jimmie.
I much prefer 70-wt Team Associated oil in my shocks, but I don't run the VD parts. It works well with the double-orange springs all around.
I love single-servo steering in my big trucks, so I just simplify things very quickly and go that route. I like the Hitec 7950 and 7954, but there are many other good servos.
I also would recommend upgrading the stock slipper pads. For whatever reason, I have worked on three trucks now, all with one or more broken pads. You can either go with the Traxxas aluminum (5352R : $8.69) or use a T-Maxx brake disk (4964 : $2.59) which will likely require clearancing on the inside of the gear cover and drilling of every other pair of edge holes (or just every edge hole) very slightly.

JimmyNeutron, well, money is an object if the part doesn't pull its own weight. Those bocca yellow bearings are expensive!!! Are they worth almost another Summit? So far at this time I do not intend to run it through mud or water, but you never know. I figure it will cut down on maintenance time, but will the truck handle that much differently? Oh by the way, I used to live in Sullivan, MO and worked at Precoat Metals in STL about a decade ago. BOOO I-95 traffic.

MayberryKid, thank you for your experience so far with the Summit and I will definitely read a bunch about proper slipper clutch settings before I get my Summit. I am also looking forward to the Dewalt mod. It looks like I need to explain to my wife why we need to buy a dremmel for stuff around the house now

ksb51rl, thanks for the suspension setup share. I guess it will take me a while to figure out what works best for me, but you guys are giving me good ideas to um "smooth the road" so to speak. I will probably change the slipper out to one of the ones that you recommend.

One of the reasons I like the Summit is because of the ground clearance that it has. From reading other threads the orange shocks should lessen the squatting stance that I see on some videos. I was also thinking about a full t-bone skid set. Will those reinforce the a-arms as well as protect them from rocks and sticks?

Sorry if my post seems disjointed, just got back from work, lots of driving and fixing ice cream machines.

Glad to help!
I neglected to mention that an aluminum Revo steering arm from Golden Horizon or STRC and an aluminum servo horn are almost mandatory for the hi-torque steering servos.

Regarding the Dremel, it's amazing the uses it has. I do almost as many home projects with it as I do RC projects. Line up 3 or so small projects around the homestead to do with the Dremel and the spouse will quickly see its worth.

I try not to run in too much mud or water either. I don't replace bearings very often and when I do the 99¢ econo bearing 10-packs come in very handy. I never buy kits because with my type of driving, only certain sizes tend to fail, like outer axle bearings, but not inner axle bearings. That said, the expensive bearings are not a bad selection at all, just not one I could justify even if I could afford them.

I have the T-Bone a-arm and chassis skid plates and definitely find them worth buying, especially when you look at all of the scratches on them. I've done a number of the things that have been suggested to you, here's a link to my build thread. I've done a couple more things since I last updated it, might take care of that this weekend.

Definitely get the t bone skids, they are worth it, just be sure not to over tighten the front arm skids. I broke one by over tightening and when I hit a rock at speed, the top piece broke. The plastic is too thin and it was stressed already from me wrenching too hard. I think I have an easy fix for it, just haven't had the time lately.

Welcome to the fourms! The T-Bone skid plates are a great upgrade, also make sure when you get your Summit to check the two front steering servos to see if they are fighting each other. Or in other words, make sure they aren't trying to center against each other, and the other servo won't let it. I can burn out a servo really quickly!

For me, I just bought key bearings from boca.i do run in the wet a fair bit,lots of rain where I am in fall and winter.
I went with sealed ceramic
(green seal)inner and outer wheel bearings.I haven't touched a wheel bearing since.
Inner and outer pinion bearings.(i part time run a brushless system)that's why the pinion bearings.other than that the stock bearings,with proper care are fine
I have stock bearings on there that are original(vintage 2009) and this truck has lots of miles on it.
She's no parking lot princess. Lol
I have the t bone centre skid.i am happy with it.i made some cheap arm skids.
When I say cheap....I mean cut up a plastic bleach bottle and a few zip ties
Almost free.lol lasting much longer than I thought
To see if they helped me,they do in some situations.i may get the t bone a arm skids or use the never ending supply of this "top grade" skid material

I researched the Summit on and off for a few years and then pretty hard core for a few months before pulling the trigger.

Then I realized a few days after it shipped AHH I don't have a charger!! (This was my first electric RC) So when I was at my not so local hobby shop I picked up an Onyx 245 (on impulse...it was the only charger they had that would charge lipos) and it works ok but now that I have a pair of Summits I'm starting to really notice it's limitations.

So now I'm looking into upgrading my charging system. Someone somewhere stated that your charging system is the backbone to your hobby...RCs may come and go but they all need charged batteries.

A lot of members recomend the icharger series and that's what I'm leaning towards at the moment. I need to do some more research on power supplies and para boards and all that jazz and may have to pester a few members here when I get closer to purchasing components.

Just thought I'd chime in. The preceding advice has been spot on IMO...but I also learned most of what I know now from the same group of Summit owners helping you

ksb51rl Thanks for the advive on the servo horn, it makes sense that I will need a upgraded arm to go with the single servo. I looked at the internet (through a link on a thread on this forum somewhere) to see how to calibrate dual servos. It does not seem that hard to do. Instead of 1 big or 2 small servos, why not 2 medium strength servos, or is the servos fighting just not worth it? I am researching bearings right now for the advantages on the different types, ceramic, hybrids, steel, rubber sealed, etc. Interesting on how different bearings have different demands and needs, I guess just like a car.

Jimmy 1971 I am looking forward to reading more on your thread when you update it. I love these forums, besides being one of the most active forums on the internet on rc cars and trucks (one of the reasons I am going summit besides that I am going to be driving in tall grass) is the build threads that explain the why of the upgrade and how it works afterwards. My dad always said "It is good to learn from your mistakes but better to learn from others" So I can tap this vast practical knowledge here of other people like me, though I seem to be RC deficient at this time.

rcmonkey and wolfslash16 thank you for the +1's on the t-bone kits, maybe if I epoxy the a-arms to each other but not the arm as I gently screw them in. Hmmmm be nice to be able to plastic weld to make it 1 reinforced piece.

wolfslash16 would you recommend 1 big servo over 2 medium (upgraded) servos? I know to listen for the fighting, but how often does the dual servo setup need to be recalibrated over normal yard / trail driving?

Jamann thank you for replying to me thread, I really like your tried and true bearing setup, that is probably what I will do. I guess the sealed ceramics are the way to go for me for the low maintenance. Is there a noticable performance difference? I do like the plastic that you use, might be able to do that but I would probably prefer the t-bone, but I like jimmy 1971's idea of a guard against sticks on the front (genius). jamann, I love your builds, very informative and I have learned much from them, I look forward to them when I log on.

Happymachinist, I have been leaning twards the i-charger based on the reviews that I have seen around here, but I can't decide which one I want. It seems unavoidable that my RC family is going to grow (more vehicles I mean ) so I may just get the biggest one, but with these systems the power supply is separate so that adds a whole new area of ponderings. I would like something professional looking. I was a DS in the us navy my rate split into Electronics technician and Firecontrollman, so I have the skills, but I don't want pyro-lipos either. Much more research involved. I will probably end up spending as much on the charger and batteries as I do on the Summit. But the charger is the heart of the summit in a way so I don't have a problem with that. Please let me know how your search goes I envy your fabrication skills, someday I may be able to do the high quality work that you do.

I would like to thank everyone here for helping me get a good start on this. I got to the point where I couldn't find answers to questions and ideas of mine through other people's threads. I am happy to be here and hope to contribute to others when I am further on my RC challenge course

How's your Dell Power Edge 2800 setup working? I may have bought a pair last night...(7000815-0000)...dang slow phone got me again

I know your old thread said you had been using it for some time and was still going strong. I actually planned on tricking it using an old servo plug myself.

Sent from my iPhone using autocorrect

FWIW, JST-XH balance taps also work well since the spacing is the same.
These Dell 1850 PSUs have a different pinout. I removed the wires I did not need and soldered together three wires on each PSU. One (probably useless) feature of using servo or balance plugs rather than soldering is that with the removal of the plug nobody is using your PSU (thinking more of safety than anti-theft.)

I just got a summit my self , and i am pleased the only thing i have broken is the driveshaft because with just that titan 775 they have loads of torque. Brushless summit is almost not worth it cause you are gonna break alot of stuff unless you spend lots of $ to upgrade all your parts. The summit is made for rock crawling,creek riding,and mudd. Im not sure they make a brushless motor for the summit that is waterproof , I have 2 5700 2 cell lipo's and i can run for atleast an hour if im not in high gear on the throttle the whole time. But it is really just your preference of what type of riding you are gonna do. But if you have alot of money to spend by the time you got a summit put a brushless system on it and bought all the up grades...really all you have is a E-REVO with big tires and locking diffs.

would you recommend 1 big servo over 2 medium (upgraded) servos? I know to listen for the fighting, but how often does the dual servo setup need to be recalibrated over normal yard / trail driving?

I would get just one high power and torque servo. Having two some what powerful servos can still hurt each other. If one servo is even just a little slower than the other servo, it will 'force" the slow servo to move faster, and that can damage it over time. The time between recalibrating the servos completly depends on how you drive it. If you doing alot of rock crawling, it will put more force on the servos, making it so you might need to recalibrate the servos. If you just bashing, it won't affect the servos as much as crawling would. But I'd just check them to make sure every once and a while. Hope this helps!