Sandra, what`s wrong with you? Calm down. I didn`t mean a fight! My post, and not only mine (look at the other posts directed to you), is unemotional while yours is all emotions. I tried to tell you why other people might think that those stereotypes (fat) you yourself gave us are true. That`s all. I don`t assume anything, I am just afraid that you got offended, because your tone changed. Please, don`t, I respect you and your opinion, and I only ask you whether the printed ideas in newspapers correspond to the facts. I see that you don`t think they do. OK! What broad generalisations did I make? I can`t see any. State them, please, quote me, if you can. Cause there are no.As I said all my sentences about class and elitism were made with the help of MAYBE words and QUESTIONS, I was interested in your opinions and wrote to you what I`ve read in newspapers on the subject. While you somehow saw something in those sentences. There is nothing in them, no undercurrent. Please, believe me.And what about that "joking thing"? Why this mockery? Certainly i saw the winking face, but as they say there`s always a share of truth in every joke and there`s always a share of joke in every truth."And just because someone has travelled somewhere a couple of times"...This is rather disparaging. I really don`t like it. You say you want a discussion, but it was after your post that others called the interaction a catfight, cause you made it look like that. I really have experience in travelling, and it wasn`t a couple of times for a week or a month. I will tell you, though i have already done that in other threads. I lived in London for 5 years, in Oslo (Norway) for 3 years, in Argentina for 5 years, in Peru for 4 years, in Sweden for 9(3+3+3) summer months, went to the USA for 2 months, have been to Spain, Croatia, Egypt and again in lovely Britain many times. Besides my brother is an Austrian citizen and my parents live in Cyprus. So I travel there all the time. Isn`t it enough? I know life in many countries from inside and can compare things. So I do have experience and can judge fairly. When i was in the USA I happened to speak to ordinary people, in the streets, shops and libraries, to professors in a university, and to some of the American "elite" at the embassy receptions (three times), where I was invited.Nevertheless, I mean well, I just want the truth and i don`t want to argue, let alone fight. If I have said something you didn`t like, I am sorry. I apologise. Yes, all people are the same, they trully are! They feel the same, they act in the same way, they even think the same. Only some attitudes in their lives are a bit different. Let`s find out this difference without any fights.

Oh good lord. There's nothing "wrong with me" Jane. I've said a million times I wasn't upset or arguing. You like to make it seem that way in your posts for some reason, but that's okay. I can't tease or joke with you. I understand now. I can't clarify anymore about how I'm just discussing and not taking things personal. You've used the words fight and argue, not me. You insist on projecting your own feelings onto me. What can I say. I think you misunderstand me bigtime and will continue to do so, so I will bow out of this "discussion" before I really say something I'll regret.

One of my gay friends thinks the problem with Americans is they have know fashion sense ? , can't see it myself they seem to dress just as bad/good as us Brits .He's of the opinion the baseball cap and il' fitting jeans are the biggest threat to mankind (teeth1)

One of my gay friends thinks the problem with Americans is they have no fashion sense ? He's of the opinion the baseball cap and il' fitting jeans are the biggest threat to mankind (teeth1)

I used to date a Romanian woman who was of exactly the same opinion about Canadians. She found the whole baggy jeans/hoodie/baseball cap/cheesy goatee thing appalling, and thought it hilarious when I told her that about half of the guys wearing that downtown were suburban clowns from Scarborough trying to look anonymous (all wearing the same bloody clothes, of course) so they could go buy or peddle dope at the corner of Yonge and College.

Oh good lord. There's nothing "wrong with me" Jane. I've said a million times I wasn't upset or arguing. You like to make it seem that way in your posts for some reason, but that's okay. I can't tease or joke with you. I understand now. I can't clarify anymore about how I'm just discussing and not taking things personal. You've used the words fight and argue, not me. What can I say. I think you misunderstand me bigtime and will continue to do so, so I will bow out of this "discussion" before I really say something I'll regret.

"You insist on projecting your own feelings onto me." - Wrong! I was worried that you were upset, and only that! Now I am glad that all is ok. You are very clever and I respect you. However, I didn`t get an answer to the statement by some American analysts that material success is an American value/virtue linked with the Protestant work ethic or the Puritan work ethic. Is it perceived like that or is it nonsense or maybe an outdated connection? Do you get what I mean? Could you, please, tell me. I can address only those people who live in the USA.

"You insist on projecting your own feelings onto me." - Wrong! I was worried that you were upset, and only that! Now I am glad that all is ok. You are very clever and I respect you. However, I didn`t get an answer to the statement by some American analysts that material success is an American value/virtue linked with the Protestant work ethic or the Puritan work ethic. Is it perceived like that or is it nonsense or maybe an outdated connection? Do you get what I mean? Could you, please, tell me. I can address only those people who live in the USA.

I'm glad we straightened things out Jane. I enjoy debating with you.

I think material success and materialism are very different things. Materialism has become a loaded word. Yes, immigrants came here to have more than what their ancestors had. I guess that often equates to material goods. But often times it just means you don't have to struggle like your parents did and you're able to afford to live comfortably. Yes, part of having a strong work ethic is to achieve success and being able to provide for your family with material goods is a big part of that. That doesn't mean these people are materialistic.

It also depends on what type of community you live in too. Out here in the Valley and in West Los Angeles in particular, people tend to be very materialistic. Too many people worry about labels and junk like that. Where I grew up on Long Island was completely different. People had a working class ethic and couldn't have cared less about that stuff. I mean, if I went back there and said I was wearing a pair of $300 dollar jeans, they'd call me a moron. Out here, they would just think it's the norm. Not that I wear $300 dollar jeans, but I do know people who do and they can hardly afford it. Of course not all of Southern California is like that though and most people outside of those areas don't respect the whole trendy, spend too much life style and can't stand it as much as the rest of the world. Unfortunately, the people in those areas, show business people, are the ones that represent us as a nation! Sucks really.

Anyway, I believe the quote I posted about the American Dream said just what you are saying. That there is a strong work ethic, that people work hard to achieve success. Part of that being material success, part being education and career. But again, it's different from being materialistic which has very negative connotations. Hopefully, I'm making sense. I spent about 9 hours at work today writing report cards, so I'm a bit punchy.

Sandra, I am sorry I didn`t respond yesterday. I managed to get through half of the forum yesterday when something urgent turned up. Thank you for your answer and your vision of all this material stuff. To support your view: "It is interesting to note that in the last few decades, there has been a shift in the work ethic and in the meaning of work. Some researchers report that in the past, most Americans did not expect their work to be interesting or enjoyable. In the 50s most people saw their jobs primarily as a source of income. Now, by a margin of 4 to 1, they expect their work to give them a sense of personal satisfaction and fulfillment, in addition to their income."And I also believe that Americans work harder than Europeans. For example, an Austrian could earn more by working harder or longer hours. But why should he, if he`s quite comfortable in life? He prefers to relax and have some beer.However with this crisis...

Sandra, I am sorry I didn`t respond yesterday. I managed to get through half of the forum yesterday when something urgent turned up. Thank you for your answer and your vision of all this material stuff. To support your view: "It is interesting to note that in the last few decades, there has been a shift in the work ethic and in the meaning of work. Some researchers report that in the past, most Americans did not expect their work to be interesting or enjoyable. In the 50s most people saw their jobs primarily as a source of income. Now, by a margin of 4 to 1, they expect their work to give them a sense of personal satisfaction and fulfillment, in addition to their income."And I also believe that Americans work harder than Europeans. For example, an Austrian could earn more by working harder or longer hours. But why should he, if he`s quite comfortable in life? He prefers to relax and have some beer.However with this crisis...

Yeah, I'd rather live a more relaxed life style, but it's just not allowed it seems!! Everyone is expected to work so hard and such long hours even when you don't make that much. Too much importance is placed on work and career. We're like robots. I think there must be some brain washing going on somewhere!! ??)

^ I wish Americans were allowed more time for vacations. I think the average time allowed is two weeks per year...but I think many Americans skip vacations in favor of work. For more menial jobs, I don't think you get paid vacation time at all. Isn't it true that Europeans get more vacation time than we do?