I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

Technically, it is that easy.
As said, easiest is to sponsor DZ and get a server for your own. You can set it up as a duel server where you can play at. The host is still the same, except you will have your own admins.

Otherwise, a lot of people know how to open ports now so that you can host yourself. I for example helped Kenny not long ago, Jake is helping players set up their routers properly too. Theres one tiny thing I have to add. Seemingly, even though others (including CC) tried to set up other duel servers, everybody continues to go back to the ZDs. Reason? They're neutral. So apparently the ZDs and its previous admins arent half as bad as one may think .

You helped me, too. I can host again, but as I said it lags for some people. And as you said, it's easier to sponsor a neutral server like Zeals.

[quote]Technically, it is that easy. ;-)
As said, easiest is to sponsor DZ and get a server for your own. You can set it up as a duel server where you can play at. The host is still the same, except you will have your own admins.
Otherwise, a lot of people know how to open ports now so that you can host yourself. I for example helped Kenny not long ago, Jake is helping players set up their routers properly too. Theres one tiny thing I have to add. Seemingly, even though others (including CC) tried to set up other duel servers, everybody continues to go back to the ZDs. Reason? They're neutral. So apparently the ZDs and its previous admins arent half as bad as one may think ;-).[/quote]
You helped me, too. I can host again, but as I said it lags for some people. And as you said, it's easier to sponsor a neutral server like Zeals.

yes veg I kinda agree with u, i exaggerated saying ZD is a community but u gotta agree that like everyone here joins it and even plays ladders there, so technically ZDs are a part of jj net. i can also host servers but they wouldn't mean so much as zeals, that's why I'm trying to make a point here which clearly you don't see =[.

anyways, can you please show me my 200 posts I made to 'complain' about it? as long as i know (and i even was dumb enough to check), i commented only twice after dz's post, telling him that i understand him and won't argue and the other one with my suggestions about the actual zeals. i don't find that very meany, do you? in the other thread we mostly talked about Toni as a trustee and sure, as lame as that sounded, it was true.

i never EVER complained about what DZ should host or not, I said before and i'm saying again: I LOVE HOW HE AND GRY MANAGED TO BUILD THIS SITE. I only suggested that some of the actual trustees/admins aren't good enough for a serious job like that. i know this is gonna sound stupid, but as I stated before, zd's are a part of the jj net community, so being a trustee probably shouldn't be taken as a responsibility like being an admin, but it is still a serious one.

@toni, zeals are down until DZ decides if he's gonna change something about them or not.

fixing your pinging is pretty simple, just watch the videos below (3 different ways to do it):

yes veg I kinda agree with u, i exaggerated saying ZD is a community but u gotta agree that like everyone here joins it and even plays ladders there, so technically ZDs are a part of jj net. i can also host servers but they wouldn't mean so much as zeals, that's why I'm trying to make a point here which clearly you don't see =[.
anyways, can you please show me my 200 posts I made to 'complain' about it? as long as i know (and i even was dumb enough to check), i commented only twice after dz's post, telling him that i understand him and won't argue and the other one with my suggestions about the actual zeals. i don't find that very meany, do you?:) in the other thread we mostly talked about Toni as a trustee and sure, as lame as that sounded, it was true.
i never EVER complained about what DZ should host or not, I said before and i'm saying again: I LOVE HOW HE AND GRY MANAGED TO BUILD THIS SITE. I only suggested that some of the actual trustees/admins aren't good enough for a serious job like that. i know this is gonna sound stupid, but as I stated before, zd's are a part of the jj net community, so being a trustee probably shouldn't be taken as a responsibility like being an admin, but it is still a serious one.
@toni, zeals are down until DZ decides if he's gonna change something about them or not.
fixing your pinging is pretty simple, just watch the videos below (3 different ways to do it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkLqlLWmKSE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0Y5-0y4eEI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6_buK-kjjA

So apparently the ZDs and its previous admins arent half as bad as one may think

No, but they're the only ones around.

And the servers themselves are fine, even the admins are very helpful most of the time.
In a small community mistakes tend to be noticed quicker and more people know about it, and the community is less forgiving.
We're sort of like a small american town with a church and everybody who doesn't go to sunday mass gets crucified.

At the end of the day, I completely get the fact that you guys will make mistakes. But lets face it, the occasions when you guys do some wacky kick/ban are numerous as well.
Do you remember the finals GpW vs CC at Sfaizst's server, where you kicked us out, where u could have just as well muted us for those photos, or told us u'd be taking them?
But no, you kicked us.

That is how you do things, that's your mentality. And that's what I have a problem with.

Kryt once spectated gry and wrongfully cocnluded that gry didnt have a 3hk. Gry rightly pointed out that Kryt hasn't got a clue about what a 3hk is. Kryt's punishment? Ban for one day.

I mean, really? Banworthy?

Or how about a certain admin wanting to win a competition and de facto privatising Zeal Duels for his own personal agenda?

You guys are the face of Danny Z, and you're making him look like a 3rd rate thug instead of the benevolent man he is.
Instead of looking like Nelson Mandela, looking at his trustees you could easily mistake him for Putin. No I didn't say Stalin, because like I said, you've been helpful far more often then not. But some of the methods employed, and the lack of self-restraint on the part of the trustees can be a bit annoying.

Cuz remember, we don't expect you to be just as good as the rest of us. Just like we expect the very best out of our respective leaders in real life, so too we expect you to be better than us.

Believe in yourselves and we will once again believe in you.

[quote]So apparently the ZDs and its previous admins arent half as bad as one may think[/quote]
No, but they're the only ones around.
And the servers themselves are fine, even the admins are very helpful most of the time.
In a small community mistakes tend to be noticed quicker and more people know about it, and the community is less forgiving.
We're sort of like a small american town with a church and everybody who doesn't go to sunday mass gets crucified.
At the end of the day, I completely get the fact that you guys will make mistakes. But lets face it, the occasions when you guys do some wacky kick/ban are numerous as well.
Do you remember the finals GpW vs CC at Sfaizst's server, where you kicked us out, where u could have just as well muted us for those photos, or told us u'd be taking them?
But no, you kicked us.
That is how you do things, that's your mentality. And that's what I have a problem with.
Kryt once spectated gry and wrongfully cocnluded that gry didnt have a 3hk. Gry rightly pointed out that Kryt hasn't got a clue about what a 3hk is. Kryt's punishment? Ban for one day.
I mean, really? Banworthy?
Or how about a certain admin wanting to win a competition and de facto privatising Zeal Duels for his own personal agenda?
You guys are the face of Danny Z, and you're making him look like a 3rd rate thug instead of the benevolent man he is.
Instead of looking like Nelson Mandela, looking at his trustees you could easily mistake him for Putin. No I didn't say Stalin, because like I said, you've been helpful far more often then not. But some of the methods employed, and the lack of self-restraint on the part of the trustees can be a bit annoying.
Cuz remember, we don't expect you to be just as good as the rest of us. Just like we expect the very best out of our respective leaders in real life, so too we expect you to be better than us.
Believe in yourselves and we will once again believe in you.

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

And uhm, when I said you, I guess I should have said I didn't mean vegito only. I think I might have got kicked out of the jj2wc server by gry tbh.
(and yes jj2wc server wasn't yours, but was trying to make a point... )

Looking back I maybe shouldn't have said some of the stuff I didn, but I guess things were brewing for some time now. Although again, to be completely fair, it's not as if the community never does inappropriate stuff.

I guess it's all about balance.

Sorry if I offended any1, in fact I'm pretty sure I offended quite a lot of you, but some of the things that were done really weren't cool.
Although now that I think on it, were I a trustee, I'd surely ban some of the more retarded and annoying people simply because I could and not on (fully) justifiable grounds. Comes with the job I guess. Still, mby a bit less of that m'kay?

I shouldn't, but you can understand why it might happen, right?
And uhm, when I said you, I guess I should have said I didn't mean vegito only. I think I might have got kicked out of the jj2wc server by gry tbh.
(and yes jj2wc server wasn't yours, but was trying to make a point... )
Looking back I maybe shouldn't have said some of the stuff I didn, but I guess things were brewing for some time now. Although again, to be completely fair, it's not as if the community never does inappropriate stuff.
I guess it's all about balance.
Sorry if I offended any1, in fact I'm pretty sure I offended quite a lot of you, but some of the things that were done really weren't cool.
Although now that I think on it, were I a trustee, I'd surely ban some of the more retarded and annoying people simply because I could and not on (fully) justifiable grounds. Comes with the job I guess. Still, mby a bit less of that m'kay?

And the servers themselves are fine, even the admins are very helpful most of the time.
In a small community mistakes tend to be noticed quicker and more people know about it, and the community is less forgiving.
We're sort of like a small american town with a church and everybody who doesn't go to sunday mass gets crucified.

Indeed. The communities player could be less .. lynchy (if thats a word?) too imo. Any mistake no matter who does what (clan related too) gets punished very hard.

Quote:

At the end of the day, I completely get the fact that you guys will make mistakes. But lets face it, the occasions when you guys do some wacky kick/ban are numerous as well.
Do you remember the finals GpW vs CC at Sfaizst's server, where you kicked us out, where u could have just as well muted us for those photos, or told us u'd be taking them?
But no, you kicked us.

Gry kicked you there I think, wasn't me. And hey! Its a CC server after all, so in the end the match was done already and it being a CC server, JJ2WC being over, it did mean we could claim the server again. No, I dont say I liked those bans, I rather not have seen them. Still, they're completely off point, a different (CC owned) server...

Quote:

That is how you do things, that's your mentality. And that's what I have a problem with.

I can argue with that being our mentality.

Quote:

Kryt once spectated gry and wrongfully cocnluded that gry didnt have a 3hk. Gry rightly pointed out that Kryt hasn't got a clue about what a 3hk is. Kryt's punishment? Ban for one day.

I mean, really? Banworthy?

No it isn't ban worthy at all obviously. But hey, I'll let Gry answer there.

Quote:

Or how about a certain admin wanting to win a competition and de facto privatising Zeal Duels for his own personal agenda?

No, not something that should be done either. Do you see them as admins now? And may that be Nerds first mistake? Either way, I guess DZ should be answering here, not me.

Quote:

You guys are the face of Danny Z, and you're making him look like a 3rd rate thug instead of the benevolent man he is.
Instead of looking like Nelson Mandela, looking at his trustees you could easily mistake him for Putin. No I didn't say Stalin, because like I said, you've been helpful far more often then not. But some of the methods employed, and the lack of self-restraint on the part of the trustees can be a bit annoying.

Cuz remember, we don't expect you to be just as good as the rest of us. Just like we expect the very best out of our respective leaders in real life, so too we expect you to be better than us.

Believe in yourselves and we will once again believe in you.

I cant disagree some of the things that were done, were not supposed to be done. Ever since that thing with moti for example, I personally started to get a lot more careful and even though tons of players hated me then, I do see players actually believing in me again. Thats an example of myself, however.

Interesting enough, players that simply have a good speech may do far more things than players with less good speech. The player with a far less good speech however may not be the worse admin at all. So I partly agree, but partly I don't agree either.
If all of the admins made one mistake, does that mean all admins must get lynched and be replaced by others? Then wait for those (new) admins to make a mistake, get lynched and to be replaced?

@ Kimo

Quote:

yes veg I kinda agree with u, i exaggerated saying ZD is a community but u gotta agree that like everyone here joins it and even plays ladders there, so technically ZDs are a part of jj net. i can also host servers but they wouldn't mean so much as zeals, that's why I'm trying to make a point here which clearly you don't see =[.

anyways, can you please show me my 200 posts I made to 'complain' about it? as long as i know (and i even was dumb enough to check), i commented only twice after dz's post, telling him that i understand him and won't argue and the other one with my suggestions about the actual zeals. i don't find that very meany, do you?emo in the other thread we mostly talked about Toni as a trustee and sure, as lame as that sounded, it was true.

i never EVER complained about what DZ should host or not, I said before and i'm saying again: I LOVE HOW HE AND GRY MANAGED TO BUILD THIS SITE. I only suggested that some of the actual trustees/admins aren't good enough for a serious job like that. i know this is gonna sound stupid, but as I stated before, zd's are a part of the jj net community, so being a trustee probably shouldn't be taken as a responsibility like being an admin, but it is still a serious one.

I meant not only you but the general idea right now . I cant disagree with that Toni stuff, I left myself out of that discussion too as you saw .

@ DZ/Urbs

Quote:

Urbs, Veg was one ot the hardest working admins I ever had.
But true, he made some misstakes. But that dosen't mean you can overlook all the hard and good work he did.

Quote:

I shouldn't, but you can understand why it might happen, right?

And uhm, when I said you, I guess I should have said I didn't mean vegito only. I think I might have got kicked out of the jj2wc server by gry tbh.
(and yes jj2wc server wasn't yours, but was trying to make a point... )

Looking back I maybe shouldn't have said some of the stuff I didn, but I guess things were brewing for some time now. Although again, to be completely fair, it's not as if the community never does inappropriate stuff.

I guess it's all about balance.

Sorry if I offended any1, in fact I'm pretty sure I offended quite a lot of you, but some of the things that were done really weren't cool.
Although now that I think on it, were I a trustee, I'd surely ban some of the more retarded and annoying people simply because I could and not on (fully) justifiable grounds. Comes with the job I guess. Still, mby a bit less of that m'kay?

No worries, as you can guess from my answer, I understood your point entirely (I think?).
I didn't feel offended, I just answered what I thought I could answer cause it was meant at me only.
And yes, the admins that will get reinstalled, will definitely be more careful I think. Just as I already got and I dont think you can disagree with me being more careful now either .

Anyway, I spent way too much time at JJ2 today so, I'll check in later and hope some of the answers were accepted as I accepted some of your points too.

Cheers, and hope all will be grand again

@ Urbs;
[quote]And the servers themselves are fine, even the admins are very helpful most of the time.
In a small community mistakes tend to be noticed quicker and more people know about it, and the community is less forgiving.
We're sort of like a small american town with a church and everybody who doesn't go to sunday mass gets crucified.[/quote]
Indeed. The communities player could be less .. lynchy (if thats a word?) too imo. Any mistake no matter who does what (clan related too) gets punished very hard.
[quote]At the end of the day, I completely get the fact that you guys will make mistakes. But lets face it, the occasions when you guys do some wacky kick/ban are numerous as well.
Do you remember the finals GpW vs CC at Sfaizst's server, where you kicked us out, where u could have just as well muted us for those photos, or told us u'd be taking them?
But no, you kicked us.[/quote]
Gry kicked you there I think, wasn't me. And hey! Its a CC server after all, so in the end the match was done already and it being a CC server, JJ2WC being over, it did mean we could claim the server again. No, I dont say I liked those bans, I rather not have seen them. Still, they're completely off point, a different (CC owned) server...
[quote]That is how you do things, that's your mentality. And that's what I have a problem with.[/quote]
I can argue with that being our mentality.
[quote]Kryt once spectated gry and wrongfully cocnluded that gry didnt have a 3hk. Gry rightly pointed out that Kryt hasn't got a clue about what a 3hk is. Kryt's punishment? Ban for one day.
I mean, really? Banworthy?[/quote]
No it isn't ban worthy at all obviously. But hey, I'll let Gry answer there.
[quote]Or how about a certain admin wanting to win a competition and de facto privatising Zeal Duels for his own personal agenda?[/quote]
No, not something that should be done either. Do you see them as admins now? And may that be Nerds first mistake? Either way, I guess DZ should be answering here, not me.
[quote]You guys are the face of Danny Z, and you're making him look like a 3rd rate thug instead of the benevolent man he is.
Instead of looking like Nelson Mandela, looking at his trustees you could easily mistake him for Putin. No I didn't say Stalin, because like I said, you've been helpful far more often then not. But some of the methods employed, and the lack of self-restraint on the part of the trustees can be a bit annoying.
Cuz remember, we don't expect you to be just as good as the rest of us. Just like we expect the very best out of our respective leaders in real life, so too we expect you to be better than us.
Believe in yourselves and we will once again believe in you.[/quote]
I cant disagree some of the things that were done, were not supposed to be done. Ever since that thing with moti for example, I personally started to get a lot more careful and even though tons of players hated me then, I do see players actually believing in me again. Thats an example of myself, however.
Interesting enough, players that simply have a good speech may do far more things than players with less good speech. The player with a far less good speech however may not be the worse admin at all. So I partly agree, but partly I don't agree either.
If all of the admins made one mistake, does that mean all admins must get lynched and be replaced by others? Then wait for those (new) admins to make a mistake, get lynched and to be replaced?
@ Kimo
[quote]yes veg I kinda agree with u, i exaggerated saying ZD is a community but u gotta agree that like everyone here joins it and even plays ladders there, so technically ZDs are a part of jj net. i can also host servers but they wouldn't mean so much as zeals, that's why I'm trying to make a point here which clearly you don't see =[.
anyways, can you please show me my 200 posts I made to 'complain' about it? as long as i know (and i even was dumb enough to check), i commented only twice after dz's post, telling him that i understand him and won't argue and the other one with my suggestions about the actual zeals. i don't find that very meany, do you?emo in the other thread we mostly talked about Toni as a trustee and sure, as lame as that sounded, it was true.
i never EVER complained about what DZ should host or not, I said before and i'm saying again: I LOVE HOW HE AND GRY MANAGED TO BUILD THIS SITE. I only suggested that some of the actual trustees/admins aren't good enough for a serious job like that. i know this is gonna sound stupid, but as I stated before, zd's are a part of the jj net community, so being a trustee probably shouldn't be taken as a responsibility like being an admin, but it is still a serious one.
[/quote]
I meant not only you but the general idea right now ;-). I cant disagree with that Toni stuff, I left myself out of that discussion too as you saw ;-).
@ DZ/Urbs
[quote]Urbs, Veg was one ot the hardest working admins I ever had.
But true, he made some misstakes. But that dosen't mean you can overlook all the hard and good work he did. [/quote]
[quote]I shouldn't, but you can understand why it might happen, right?
And uhm, when I said you, I guess I should have said I didn't mean vegito only. I think I might have got kicked out of the jj2wc server by gry tbh.
(and yes jj2wc server wasn't yours, but was trying to make a point... )
Looking back I maybe shouldn't have said some of the stuff I didn, but I guess things were brewing for some time now. Although again, to be completely fair, it's not as if the community never does inappropriate stuff.
I guess it's all about balance.
Sorry if I offended any1, in fact I'm pretty sure I offended quite a lot of you, but some of the things that were done really weren't cool.
Although now that I think on it, were I a trustee, I'd surely ban some of the more retarded and annoying people simply because I could and not on (fully) justifiable grounds. Comes with the job I guess. Still, mby a bit less of that m'kay? [/quote]
No worries, as you can guess from my answer, I understood your point entirely (I think?).
I didn't feel offended, I just answered what I thought I could answer cause it was meant at me only.
And yes, the admins that will get reinstalled, will definitely be more careful I think. Just as I already got and I dont think you can disagree with me being more careful now either ;-).
Anyway, I spent way too much time at JJ2 today so, I'll check in later and hope some of the answers were accepted as I accepted some of your points too.
Cheers, and hope all will be grand again :)

I never said the whole crew made mistakes or that the whole crew has to be replaced because of one admin.

I also do not see how it can be our mistake. We play at the server,let you 'rule' us,and when you people go on a ban rampage it's our mistake?

EDIT: ok never mind,sorry

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

I never said the whole crew made mistakes or that the whole crew has to be replaced because of one admin.
I also do not see how it can be our mistake. We play at the server,let you 'rule' us,and when you people go on a ban rampage it's our mistake?
EDIT: ok never mind,sorry

Nono, I never said that either btw. It was an example of what could be happening... I mean, Gry made mistakes, I made mistakes, Jake did, Nerd did etc. Would we all (the 4 admins I mentioned, or rather, previous admins) get replaced and wait for other admins to make mistakes and get lynched/replaced then? Other admins may have made mistakes too but I cant quite recall that nor it is my point to find out all who made mistakes before, btw.

And I edited that part, I noticed my mistake. Please take a look now again as I finished.

Nono, I never said that either btw. It was an example of what could be happening... I mean, Gry made mistakes, I made mistakes, Jake did, Nerd did etc. Would we all (the 4 admins I mentioned, or rather, previous admins) get replaced and wait for other admins to make mistakes and get lynched/replaced then? Other admins may have made mistakes too but I cant quite recall that nor it is my point to find out all who made mistakes before, btw.
And I edited that part, I noticed my mistake. Please take a look now again as I finished.

And the servers themselves are fine, even the admins are very helpful most of the time.
In a small community mistakes tend to be noticed quicker and more people know about it, and the community is less forgiving.
We're sort of like a small american town with a church and everybody who doesn't go to sunday mass gets crucified.

QFT!
Therefore, admins schould be very careful. YEs, admins make mistakes, but we're all humans and therefore bound to emotions and whatever which will affect the way we make our decisions.

Bans aren't appreciated usually... but unless someone cheats or is consistently insulting, I think a kick is sufficient...

@Toni: A duel server doesn't have to be online 24/7. Just when they're needed most (evenings, weekend).
When most of us are at school, one ZD is sufficient.

[quote]And the servers themselves are fine, even the admins are very helpful most of the time.
In a small community mistakes tend to be noticed quicker and more people know about it, and the community is less forgiving.
We're sort of like a small american town with a church and everybody who doesn't go to sunday mass gets crucified.
[/quote]
QFT!
Therefore, admins schould be very careful. YEs, admins make mistakes, but we're all humans and therefore bound to emotions and whatever which will affect the way we make our decisions.
[u]Bans aren't appreciated usually... but unless someone [b]cheats[/b] or is[b] consistently insulting[/b], I think a kick is sufficient...[/u]
@Toni: A duel server doesn't have to be online 24/7. Just when they're needed most (evenings, weekend). ;)
When most of us are at school, one ZD is sufficient.

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

"One ZD",there's my theory :P
Now seriously,quit the server discussion,this is only about admins.

It would be nice if every clan received Trustees and Moderators,but still,any change is welcome. Remember people,you can also suggest jj.net ideas here.

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

No. More. Offtopic. Please.
It would be nice if every clan received Trustees and Moderators,but still,any change is welcome. Remember people,you can also suggest jj.net ideas here.

Hey Ron, don't hesitate moving off-topic posts like Nerd's to a new topic please. (To be fair, Ubbe's remark a few posts earlier set it off I guess)

Nerd's idea of an upper limit isn't half bad and should be considered in my opinion. (Which I might have moved to the other thread by mistake. )

Quote:

DZ: [03:52:28] ID: 2 IP Address: Name: GRYTOLLE

haha, that looks totally legit

Quote:

Kryt once spectated gry and wrongfully cocnluded that gry didnt have a 3hk. Gry rightly pointed out that Kryt hasn't got a clue about what a 3hk is. Kryt's punishment? Ban for one day.

Disturbing the game (as in, one of the four players) - but yeah, I don't like that one either in retrospect. It's for reasons like that that I'd rather stick to what I do very well without getting myself into trouble (JJnet stuff: developing the site, advising DZ, refereeing games, uploading videos, ...). To be fair though, the Zeal Servers were really fucking chaotic for a while when a lot of people were active and spectators were constantly spamming about everything. I still think that spectators can be kicked off at any point if some player finds them disturbing, or simply doesn't want them scouting up all their tactics. Of course, that is best done with a polite kick and a playerlimit (asking people to leave first you can do, but isn't really important to my mind). If you wanna discuss whether specating is a right or a privilege or whatever, please start a new thread, as not to clutter this discussion even more.

Quote:

It isn't his website, jj.net =/= ZDs, and no matter how much that is said, you (kimo) continue to call both DZs property.

It would be really nice if people could understand this. There is a huge overlap adminwise (what do you expect? DZ started both projects), but the projects are essentially different. The Zeal Servers are owned by DZ, JJ.net is hosted by Nimrod, who also owns the domain name. Nimrod trusts us to do a good job with the site - from his point of view that means that we remain a popular Jazz2 site as a counterweight to J2O, which he perceives as kind of evil. For this reason, we do indeed care about what the (especially the playing) participants of the site think. Sometimes a minority group makes a lot of noise and pretends that they are "the voice of the community" as a whole. Some people think we should simply tell those people to get the fuck out, but we don't. In the eyes of some, we've even given in to the demands of SR (yeah, it's always been SR vs. JJnet) too many times, but atleast that serves to prove that we listen to what you guys have to say. Ever since RL disappeared, there has been zero whining about referee bias and whatnot (except for when Ron suddenly decided that he should be a JJnet admin): everything is always about the Zeal Servers, but of course (in the grand scheme of things) minor mistakes there rub off on the JJnet adminship too, seeing as we consist largely of the same people, and get labeled by some () as a "long series of JJnet blunders". The only thing I can even remotely envision as a JJnet blunder is my retaliation to SR's last attack on the site, with a comedic text and picture, which everyone lol'd at. After a while some thoughtful people pointed out that it would be more admin-worthy to take down the text, so I did. Before that, there was the whole thing about the map pool, where certain levels of questionable suitedness for competitive JJ2 as DZ and I envisioned it when we started the site got into the map pool: We wanted popular, preferably fast-paced maps, where lag plays only a minor factor. Not maps that are overly noobfriendly in that you can achieve good results by spamming a lot of ammo and being lucky by lag. Anyway, after those maps were added, I vented my discontent with the choices and questioned whether the (questionably fair: it sure wasn't one player, one vote for example) somwhat democracratic system we used the last time would be the right one for future alterations. Call me elitist if you will, but they don't use democracy down to the lowliest player to decide rule changes or the aerodynamics of the next tournament ball in football either. For that matter, I'm not even sure that internal discussions in the clans should be involved either: People tend to submit maps where they have a better chance of winning rather than maps that they think would show which players have the most skill. This isn't any general distaste for democracy of mine either for that matter. No democracies function without a proper education system, and there is always a voting age - that is, in essence, a criterium regulated by law to determine whether a citizen has been fully accepted as a member of the community in question. Either way, when we revise the map pool next time, there will be need for a system combining quality checks with, atleast a sence of, democracy (regardless, the choices need sufficient community support - but that hasn't been any problem the previous times, so it shouldn't be the next time either). The previous times, we have improvised the process as we went along, and considering how the community seems to expect an increasing amount of professionalism on our end, we had better be more organised next time.

Quote:

At the end of the day, I completely get the fact that you guys will make mistakes. But lets face it, the occasions when you guys do some wacky kick/ban are numerous as well.

Maybe so, but split them over time and weed out the resolved instances, then compare them to all the good work we've done.

Quote:

Do you remember the finals GpW vs CC at Sfaizst's server, where you kicked us out, where u could have just as well muted us for those photos, or told us u'd be taking them?
But no, you kicked us.

You, personally, got kicked because of a typo, and I'm quite sure I've apologized for it. Your clanmates were rightfully kicked because they were purposely ruining the screenshot we were taking by ruining the wall of text we were making (the first time we /k'd you so you wouldn't keep running into the screenshot). As I remember it, Kenny was worked up and annoying because he hadn't read up on the tournament rules. In either case - that wasn't ZD and furthermore, I thought, a resolved matter (but matters are never truly resolved with you, are they? Your indirect discussion style and your abundant use of exaggerations and emotional eruptions is also a true nuisance by the way - Please pardon me for mimicking it somewhere in this post).
Lastly, I'd like to point out the not very surprising fact that the admis that has gotten the most into trouble, made the most mistakes, are the ones that are the most active in moderating the servers, helping people out and so on. Just think about it for a second. None of this changes the fact that I don't wanna be a Zeal admin anymore. Someone else can do the dirty work and minor mistakes instead.

On another (well OK, not really, but I had already used "lastly" once) note, I'd like to point out that there is a very simple to learn system in place for distributing passwords of dedicated servers or regularily hosted servers to the public or to a limited group of people/clans. All you need to put it to use is ask an admin to create "an account" for your server. I made this in (a small) part so that people could be less dependant on ZD, should they so wish, but as it wasn't the main objective (I was bored, and the old system we had was total crap), I never really propagated this option to the public. I merely contacted a few clan leaders and offered them the possiblity personally during the testing stage.

So, whether you simply wanna help your community by hosting servers, or think that ZD are genuinly evil (or organize your clan more efficiently, for that matter), just contact an admin to set you up (preferably me, but I'm confident that Nerd and DZ know the system well enough by now to help you out too).

I am too exhausted to read this post through, but I hope that it isn't offensive to anyone, with the possible exception of Urbs who got served a well-weighed dose of my built up frustration from seeing him in numerous discussions. Dude, either you're constantly exaggerating, or you're writing posts in a state where you're by no means calm enough for a fruitful discussion. Furthermore, I'm a great fan of penis complex references and other unfair rhetoric moves, but they don't belong in a serious discussion. Thinking back at all the times you've referenced in an important (as important as jj2 discussions go, of course) something I have said to you either in confidence or as a joke, or for the matter distributed it among your 12 year old clanmates because they "needed to know", I'm seriously questioning whether a common love for sexual jokes and Comedy Central programs will be enough to sustain our friendship. If you truly wanna change JJnet/Zeal for the better, stop being such a fucking pussy and accept the positions we've offered you. Help us come up with solutions beforehand instead of joining the complaint choire after the fact. People respected, active and suited for the job aren't in ample supply, and you know it.

Oh, the irony! I wrote this before I had calmed down, and I realize how extremely unfruitful it was - but I guess it proves my point.

Hey Ron, don't hesitate moving off-topic posts like Nerd's to a new topic please. (To be fair, Ubbe's remark a few posts earlier set it off I guess) :D
Nerd's idea of an upper limit isn't half bad and should be considered in my opinion. (Which I might have moved to the other thread by mistake. :* )
[quote]DZ: [03:52:28] ID: 2 IP Address: Name: GRYTOLLE[/quote]
haha, that looks totally legit :D
[quote]Kryt once spectated gry and wrongfully cocnluded that gry didnt have a 3hk. Gry rightly pointed out that Kryt hasn't got a clue about what a 3hk is. Kryt's punishment? Ban for one day.[/quote]
Disturbing the game (as in, one of the four players) - but yeah, I don't like that one either in retrospect. It's for reasons like that that I'd rather stick to what I do very well without getting myself into trouble (JJnet stuff: developing the site, advising DZ, refereeing games, uploading videos, ...). To be fair though, the Zeal Servers were really fucking chaotic for a while when a lot of people were active and spectators were constantly spamming about everything. I still think that spectators can be kicked off at any point if some player finds them disturbing, or simply doesn't want them scouting up all their tactics. Of course, that is best done with a polite kick and a playerlimit (asking people to leave first you can do, but isn't really important to my mind). If you wanna discuss whether specating is a right or a privilege or whatever, please start a new thread, as not to clutter this discussion even more.
[quote]It isn't his website, jj.net =/= ZDs, and no matter how much that is said, you (kimo) continue to call both DZs property.[/quote]
It would be really nice if people could understand this. There is a huge overlap adminwise (what do you expect? DZ started both projects), but the projects are essentially different. The Zeal Servers are owned by DZ, JJ.net is hosted by Nimrod, who also owns the domain name. Nimrod trusts us to do a good job with the site - from his point of view that means that we remain a popular Jazz2 site as a counterweight to J2O, which he perceives as kind of evil. For this reason, we do indeed care about what the (especially the playing) participants of the site think. Sometimes a minority group makes a lot of noise and pretends that they are "the voice of the community" as a whole. Some people think we should simply tell those people to get the fuck out, but we don't. In the eyes of some, we've even given in to the demands of SR (yeah, it's always been SR vs. JJnet) too many times, but atleast that serves to prove that we listen to what you guys have to say. Ever since RL disappeared, there has been zero whining about referee bias and whatnot (except for when Ron suddenly decided that he should be a JJnet admin): everything is always about the Zeal Servers, but of course (in the grand scheme of things) minor mistakes there rub off on the JJnet adminship too, seeing as we consist largely of the same people, and get labeled by [i]some[/i] (;)) as a "long series of JJnet blunders". The only thing I can even remotely envision as a JJnet blunder is my retaliation to SR's last attack on the site, with a comedic text and picture, which everyone lol'd at. After a while some thoughtful people pointed out that it would be more admin-worthy to take down the text, so I did. Before that, there was the whole thing about the map pool, where certain levels of questionable suitedness for competitive JJ2 as DZ and I envisioned it when we started the site got into the map pool: We wanted popular, preferably fast-paced maps, where lag plays only a minor factor. Not maps that are overly noobfriendly in that you can achieve good results by spamming a lot of ammo and being lucky by lag. Anyway, after those maps were added, I vented my discontent with the choices and questioned whether the (questionably fair: it sure wasn't one player, one vote for example) somwhat democracratic system we used the last time would be the right one for future alterations. Call me elitist if you will, but they don't use democracy down to the lowliest player to decide rule changes or the aerodynamics of the next tournament ball in football either. For that matter, I'm not even sure that internal discussions in the clans should be involved either: People tend to submit maps where they have a better chance of winning rather than maps that they think would show which players have the most skill. This isn't any general distaste for democracy of mine either for that matter. No democracies function without a proper education system, and there is always a voting age - that is, in essence, a criterium regulated by law to determine whether a citizen has been fully accepted as a member of the community in question. Either way, when we revise the map pool next time, there will be need for a system combining quality checks with, atleast a sence of, democracy (regardless, the choices need sufficient community support - but that hasn't been any problem the previous times, so it shouldn't be the next time either). The previous times, we have improvised the process as we went along, and considering how the community seems to expect an increasing amount of professionalism on our end, we had better be more organised next time.
[quote]At the end of the day, I completely get the fact that you guys will make mistakes. But lets face it, the occasions when you guys do some wacky kick/ban are numerous as well.[/quote]
Maybe so, but split them over time and weed out the resolved instances, then compare them to all the good work we've done.
[quote]Do you remember the finals GpW vs CC at Sfaizst's server, where you kicked us out, where u could have just as well muted us for those photos, or told us u'd be taking them?
But no, you kicked us.[/quote]
You, personally, got kicked because of a typo, and I'm quite sure I've apologized for it. Your clanmates were rightfully kicked because they were purposely ruining the screenshot we were taking by ruining the wall of text we were making (the first time we /k'd you so you wouldn't keep running into the screenshot). As I remember it, Kenny was worked up and annoying because he hadn't read up on the tournament rules. In either case - that wasn't ZD and furthermore, I thought, a resolved matter (but matters are never truly resolved with you, are they? Your indirect discussion style and your abundant use of exaggerations and emotional eruptions is also a true nuisance by the way - Please pardon me for mimicking it somewhere in this post).
Lastly, I'd like to point out the not very surprising fact that the admis that has gotten the most into trouble, made the most mistakes, are the ones that are the most active in moderating the servers, helping people out and so on. Just think about it for a second. None of this changes the fact that I don't wanna be a Zeal admin anymore. Someone else can do the dirty work and minor mistakes instead.
On another (well OK, not really, but I had already used "lastly" once) note, I'd like to point out that there is a very simple to learn system in place for distributing passwords of dedicated servers or regularily hosted servers to the public or to a limited group of people/clans. All you need to put it to use is ask an admin to create "an account" for your server. I made this in (a small) part so that people could be less dependant on ZD, should they so wish, but as it wasn't the main objective (I was bored, and the old system we had was total crap), I never really propagated this option to the public. I merely contacted a few clan leaders and offered them the possiblity personally during the testing stage.
So, whether you simply wanna help your community by hosting servers, or think that ZD are genuinly evil (or organize your clan more efficiently, for that matter), just contact an admin to set you up (preferably me, but I'm confident that Nerd and DZ know the system well enough by now to help you out too).
I am too exhausted to read this post through, but I hope that it isn't offensive to anyone, with the possible exception of Urbs who got served a well-weighed dose of my built up frustration from seeing him in numerous discussions. Dude, either you're constantly exaggerating, or you're writing posts in a state where you're by no means calm enough for a fruitful discussion. Furthermore, I'm a great fan of penis complex references and other unfair rhetoric moves, but they don't belong in a serious discussion. Thinking back at all the times you've referenced in an important (as important as jj2 discussions go, of course) something I have said to you either in confidence or as a joke, or for the matter distributed it among your 12 year old clanmates because they "needed to know", I'm seriously questioning whether a common love for sexual jokes and Comedy Central programs will be enough to sustain our friendship. If you truly wanna change JJnet/Zeal for the better, stop being such a fucking pussy and accept the positions we've offered you. Help us come up with solutions beforehand instead of joining the complaint choire after the fact. People respected, active and suited for the job aren't in ample supply, and you know it.
Oh, the irony! I wrote this before I had calmed down, and I realize how extremely unfruitful it was - but I guess it proves my point.

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

If you truly wanna change JJnet/Zeal for the better, stop being such a fucking pussy and accept the positions we've offered you. Help us come up with solutions beforehand instead of joining the complaint choire after the fact.

I thought we have already submitted a few ideas here,but no one seems to accept,the discussion about Zeal ideas always turns into "zd has is dz server" "no i no agree" "shutup u noob" and so on. JJ.net ideas? When we suggest something,the answer is simply "NO" or we get "very well then,if you can apply that to the site then it's ok".

Want better solutions? Oh,the kick/ban list. Sure,we'll work on it,but I do not want my efforts (or anyone else's if they join) to turn useless because of the same flamewar all over again ("the servers are DZ's" "no way") or because I do not agree with the current state of things.

I should accept the position? Well here,on jj.net it's nice being a forum mod (I always end up like a forum mod) but in JJ2,if we should stay slaves,fine then. Hail the Empire!

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

[quote]If you truly wanna change JJnet/Zeal for the better, stop being such a fucking pussy and accept the positions we've offered you. Help us come up with solutions beforehand instead of joining the complaint choire after the fact.[/quote]
I thought we have already submitted a few ideas here,but no one seems to accept,the discussion about Zeal ideas always turns into "zd has is dz server" "no i no agree" "shutup u noob" and so on. JJ.net ideas? When we suggest something,the answer is simply "NO" or we get "very well then,if you can apply that to the site then it's ok".
Want better solutions? Oh,the kick/ban list. Sure,we'll work on it,but I do not want my efforts (or anyone else's if they join) to turn useless because of the same flamewar all over again ("the servers are DZ's" "no way") or because I do not agree with the current state of things.
I should accept the position? Well here,on jj.net it's nice being a forum mod (I always end up like a forum mod) but in JJ2,if we should stay slaves,fine then. Hail the Empire!

I thought we have already submitted a few ideas here,but no one seems to accept,the discussion about Zeal ideas always turns into "zd has is dz server" "no i no agree" "shutup u noob" and so on. JJ.net ideas? When we suggest something,the answer is simply "NO" or we get "very well then,if you can apply that to the site then it's ok".

Want better solutions? Oh,the kick/ban list. Sure,we'll work on it,but I do not want my efforts (or anyone else's if they join) to turn useless because of the same flamewar all over again ("the servers are DZ's" "no way") or because I do not agree with the current state of things.

I should accept the position? Well here,on jj.net it's nice being a forum mod (I always end up like a forum mod) but in JJ2,if we should stay slaves,fine then. Hail the Empire!

I was talking to Urbs. You can keep complaining all you want

[quote]I thought we have already submitted a few ideas here,but no one seems to accept,the discussion about Zeal ideas always turns into "zd has is dz server" "no i no agree" "shutup u noob" and so on. JJ.net ideas? When we suggest something,the answer is simply "NO" or we get "very well then,if you can apply that to the site then it's ok".
Want better solutions? Oh,the kick/ban list. Sure,we'll work on it,but I do not want my efforts (or anyone else's if they join) to turn useless because of the same flamewar all over again ("the servers are DZ's" "no way") or because I do not agree with the current state of things.
I should accept the position? Well here,on jj.net it's nice being a forum mod (I always end up like a forum mod) but in JJ2,if we should stay slaves,fine then. Hail the Empire![/quote]
I was talking to Urbs. You can keep complaining all you want :*

Is there anyone who's willing to help me with the list? Grytolle,will the admins accept the list when it's done?

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

Yay!
Is there anyone who's willing to help me with the list? Grytolle,will the admins accept the list when it's done?

I'm a jj.net/forum moderator - feel free to contact me if you have issues with the site or the forum.
__________________________We rode on the winds of the rising storm,
We ran to the sounds of the thunder.
We danced among the lightning bolts,
and tore the world asunder.

There. People,we're moving that discussion to a new subforum. Have fun.
[url]http://jazzjackrabbit.net/index.php?league=1&season=1&&op=forumz&watte=viewforum&fid=13[/url]