@double_u said: Rommel49 made a really great post elsewhere on this forum too. He explained that by making that deal, Ben placed the entire group at constant risk because Lee, etc. would have to risk their lives more often to do supply runs in Macon. Plus, what if someone got sick and needed medicine that was given to the bandits?

Lilly made that argument originally, in the game.

And while on one hand, she is right; on the other hand, if giving some supplies to the bandits would keep them from attacking the group and weakening the motel's defenses, that might have been something the group would have been willing to deal with, especially considering there was somehow so many bandits.

@double_u said: And the whole "he's just a teen" thing isn't something I really buy. This is an ZA, and Ben needs to know how to handle things for the same reason Chuck emphasized to Lee why Clem needed to toughen up. If we look at our own world, there's plenty of "teens" in Third World countries where doing the work of "grown men" is expected because life is tough.

Ben was from a first world country who played in the school band.

And there was nobody particularly watching out for him to "toughen him up," like Lee with Clementine.

And the whole "he's just a teen" thing isn't something I really buy. This is an ZA, and Ben needs to know how to handle things for the same reason Chuck emphasized to Lee why Clem needed to toughen up. If we look at our own world, there's plenty of "teens" in Third World countries where doing the work of "grown men" is expected because life is tough.

I agree, especially with this. To say Ben is a teen means nothing in this new walker-world. I honestly feel that Clementine became more useful than Ben the moment she learned to use a gun and stop being afraid. That didn't take her very long either. Ben, on the other hand, expects sympathy and trust to be handed to him. He goes on and on about people not having confidence in him and such but he gives not one reason for anyone to. I may have forgiven Ben if he could've kept his eye on Clem for one second in episode 4. several occasions he fails to show he can do even the simplest task.

1 - he leaves Clem when the zombies are attacking in the street when they first reach Savannah. Okay, I can get that maybe he was scared but this is a shitty thing to do.

2 - Ken and Lee go to River street and Ben is given one job - keep an eye on Clementine. She goes wandering the streets five minutes later.

3 - Clementine returns with Molly and Kenny and is lost once again with Ben sitting their with his thumb up his ass watching Kenny drink.

And probably even more that I'm not recalling. It's not even so much that he loses her but that he doesn't even seem to care that he did - doesn't think it's a problem at all. He's a whiny little boy who wants the protection of a group but doesn't know the meaning of cooperation. He thinks he can act like a tough man but he knows he'd be dead without the group, as seen when he threatens to just leave the RV when Lilly points fingers but then pleads to stay. I'm very happy that I dropped him.

@Platinumb said: I didn't say Lee was at fault. I said Lee should have helped out Katjaa with the two kids prior to helping Ben and Doug/Carly.

The group was under fire, the best course of action for Lee was to lay down covering fire to allow others to run to safety. By not shooting at the bandits and running to help the kids first, the group would lose 1/3 (if Carley and Lilly were there) or 1/2 (if only Lilly) of its firepower against the numerically superior bandits. Heck, Lee might have even gotten himself killed.

@Platinumb said: He was expecting to see bandits, to pick up the supplies. Just saying.

The grate was off to the side. So the bandits would've have to change direction on the road in clear view and then start climbing the wall. I mean, come on, there's only so much slack we can cut Ben.

And while on one hand, she is right; on the other hand, if giving some supplies to the bandits would keep them from attacking the group and weakening the motel's defenses, that might have been something the group would have been willing to deal with, especially considering there was somehow so many bandits.

If this was in the group's benefit, then Ben should have told the group. He had no right making decisions by himself that placed others going on supply runs at risk.

Also, Ben didn't do it for the group. He was dumb enough to believe the bandits held his friend captive. The deal was to keep this supposed hostage alive.

@Platinumb said: Ben was from a first world country who played in the school band.

And there was nobody particularly watching out for him to "toughen him up," like Lee with Clementine.

Except the ZA didn't happen overnight. Ben by now had many months to adapt to the new realities. He shouldn't stay as a band geek forever. As for him not having someone to look up to, maybe he should've ask Lee or Kenny. He admits repeatedly in 4 and 5 that he's useless. So instead of living with being a dead weight, maybe he should have asked someone to help him be a better member of the group?

Plus, given the way Carley defended him at the RV, it seems that she had take a big sister role to him.

So there are people. And he should've taken some initiative to ask someone to mentor him.

@double_u said: The group was under fire, the best course of action for Lee was to lay down covering fire to allow others to run to safety. By not shooting at the bandits and running to help the kids first, the group would lose 1/3 (if Carley and Lilly were there) or 1/2 (if only Lilly) of its firepower against the numerically superior bandits. Heck, Lee might have even gotten himself killed.

What in the world are you talking about?

He could have shot at the bandits closer to Katjaa and the two eight year olds before shooting at the bandits near Ben and Doug/Carly. it would have made a lot more sense, bearing in mind that he'd be looking out for Clementine first.

Except the ZA didn't happen overnight. Ben by now had many months to adapt to the new realities. He shouldn't stay as a band geek forever. As for him not having someone to look up to, maybe he should've ask Lee or Kenny. He admits repeatedly in 4 and 5 that he's useless. So instead of living with being a dead weight, maybe he should have asked someone to help him be a better member of the group?

Plus, given the way Carley defended him at the RV, it seems that she had take a big sister role to him.

So there are people. And he should've taken some initiative to ask someone to mentor him.

This, I do agree with.

He was really whiny and scared all the time, and Clementine is way more mature at 8/9.