If so, yes there are several rest days in the religion. In a typical week, Friday is considered the rest day. Furthermore, we accept and believe that Saturday is the rest day for the jewish community, and Sunday is the rest day for the christian community.

Are you a "Westernized" (i.e., American, European) or from an Eastern background? I only ask for perspective as it may assist in questions.

Although, I grew up in the west, I have no trouble seeing things from other perspectives. So feel free to ask anything.Furthermore, I'm not really that westernized.... I've never drank, consumed usury, nor participated in lustful relationships-- if that's what you're wondering.

What's the difference between Salafism and Wahhabism? Are those synonyms for the same basic idea? How widerspread Salafism and/or Wahhabism is among non-Saudi Muslims?

From my understanding, wahhabisim is a branch of Salafism. A very very long time ago, they were kind of like Amish community of Anabaptist-- live in peaceful ways staying as true to the old ways as possible.

Unfortunately today, their community has been infiltrated, spoiled and heavily radicalized.

I'm not sure how widespread they are, but I can say that the radical elements of that sect is a very small minority - often funded by certain governments for political purposes.

Do Shi'a have the same belief regarding the eternality and uncreated nature of the Qur'an that the Sunnis apparently have? An acquaintance of mine who converted to Sunni Islam (apparently from some kind of Christianity, though I don't know exactly what) explained it to me once that the Qur'an is preserved since time immemorial in heaven on some kind of tablet, as are "uncorrupted"/original versions of the Torah and the Christian NT (in keeping with the mainstream Islamic view that these have been corrupted). I thought that was pretty interesting, but I don't really understand how it's supposed to work.

Are you a cradle muslim or a convert? Why are you shia instead of sunni? What flavour of shia are you (twelver, anything else)?

I'm a cradle...

Shia sect is really the followers of the prophet and his family lineage. The reason why I focus on this sect, is because, IMO, the people that best know about the prophet and his private lifestyle are his close family members. Although his companions were very intelligent, and were close to him, ...at the end of the day though, they didn't really live with him at home, and they weren't really raised and trained by the prophet from birth.

I come from a 12er family, but now I don't really restrict my self to a certain branch. I'm open to all different interpretation of the religion, and whatever my intuition/heart says is true, that's what I go with.

Why does the quran say that the true Christians would be victorius to the day of ressurection when the only possible canndidate for any group fulfilling that are the Nicene Christians?

I'll be honest with you, this is the first time I've heard the term 'Nicene Christians'... I'll have to read more about this.

But in general, any individual (Christians or not) who live a pious lifestyle where their good deeds outweigh the bad deeds, and they follow their hearth/intuition... will be victorious on the day of resurrection.

"Nicene" refers to the Council of Nicaea, the first of the ecumenical councils held with all Christian churches in the world at that time (325 AD). The creed that came out of it (subsequently revised in 381 at the Council of Constantinople with an expansion on the section concerning the Holy Spirit, to fight against heresies that denied the Holy Spirit) is known as the "Nicene Creed", so those Christians who keep to this Creed (the Orthodox, Catholics, and maybe some Protestants) could be called "Nicene Christians". In all the apostolic churches, we recite this Creed in every liturgy.

Do Shi'a have the same belief regarding the eternality and uncreated nature of the Qur'an that the Sunnis apparently have? An acquaintance of mine who converted to Sunni Islam (apparently from some kind of Christianity, though I don't know exactly what) explained it to me once that the Qur'an is preserved since time immemorial in heaven on some kind of tablet, as are "uncorrupted"/original versions of the Torah and the Christian NT (in keeping with the mainstream Islamic view that these have been corrupted). I thought that was pretty interesting, but I don't really understand how it's supposed to work.

Shia's do agree that the Qur'an is not corrupted... and there are many reasons why. For one, it's in a poetic format, so it's easier to memorize. So when these verses were revealed to the prophet, he would enunciate it out stanza by stanza (ie. verse by verse), so everyone was able to memorize it-- some would later go and write down the verse . Later, when all the surahs (poems) were revealed, the early muslims compiled all these poems into one book--- which was the first quran. This first quran is still around and that's why we believe it's not corrupted.

In the case of the Torah, and NT.... they are older documents and unfortunately the original texts are missing-- no museum in the world has them. Now this doesn't mean that God isn't fair - and only blesses one relgious group and not the others. On the contrary, God is very fair. Even though the two documents are corrupted and have a lot of false statements, there are also a lot of statements of truths.

What's different with the Quran, is that the statements of truth in Torah and NT are clearer and easier to see, while the Quran these statements are wrapped in a poetic fashion and requires a poetic mindset -- it requires a bit more work. So God plays fair with all religions-- some religions will have corrupted books, but the statments of truth are more comprehensible--- the reason is, that on the day of judgment, you won't have an excuse of saying that the book you were following was corrupted and it's not fair that other regions had it easier. That's not the case, because the statement of truths were there, and it required a little bit of hard work to do independent research and study history to seek out and ignore the corrupted aspects of the religion. This is especially true for the pagan religion..... although it's full of evil and false statments, there are a lot of very clear elements of truth--- if the pagans don't pay attention to these truths, and don't follow their heart/intuition... on the day of judgement, they will not have an excuse of not having access to truthful resources.

Note that we believe that around the time when Jesus comes back, the Torah and NT in their original format will be revealed again-- so that there won't be any doubts, and the truth triumphs over falsehood.

Are you a "Westernized" (i.e., American, European) or from an Eastern background? I only ask for perspective as it may assist in questions.

Although, I grew up in the west, I have no trouble seeing things from other perspectives. So feel free to ask anything.Furthermore, I'm not really that westernized.... I've never drank, consumed usury, nor participated in lustful relationships-- if that's what you're wondering.

Thank you! I asked because I know in Christianity there is a difference in Western and Eastern thinking. I'm not sure if its the same with Islam.

you become more susceptible to giving off negative energies such as lust, envy, anger, ....etc. The jinns (demons) feed off of these negative energies... and they'll enter you life, and will later harm you.

If so, yes there are several rest days in the religion. In a typical week, Friday is considered the rest day. Furthermore, we accept and believe that Saturday is the rest day for the jewish community, and Sunday is the rest day for the christian community.

You know, maybe thats why we have three different ones , so all will not be off the same day.

« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 09:31:52 PM by Sinful Hypocrite »

Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“

The very bad ones, constantly intervene in people's lives, trying to destroy relationships and constantly pressuring you to give off negative energies(it's like a "drug/alcohol" to them). They also feed off of bodily fluids and wastes.... so it's very important to keep yourself and your surroundings clean.

I have two questions. The first is for clarification. Is it Muslim or Moslem or something else, officially?

The second is, well, I'm not sure how to word it. In Christian circles, if a group calling themselves Christian did the things "radical" Islamist do, the rest of us would not put up with it and we would do everything we could to correct the problem. Why is the Islamic world so very different and virtually apathetic to the jihadists?

I realize Christianity and Islam will always be at odds, but seeing the things in the world today as they are, I just thought more people would stand up against the whack jobs. I know some do and many die as a result; however, percentage wise it's almost nothing.

I've been to that part of the world and seen how things go. I have seen people who hate Americans help us because the ones fighting us are killing them too, but I saw very little of them fighting for themselves. Is it some sort of fear?

I've never met a Muslim I wanted to kill, much less just because he was Muslim and no other reason. To me it seems like an irrational hatred for anything different to them. It reminds me of white supremacy of years gone by, only worse.

Be reasonable, Nikolaos...not even I like all Christinas...there are too many in the world to judge, but I bet at least some of them are jerks! I mean, by the law of averages, they'd have to be!

Kerdy:

I'm not the OP (obviously), but in the Arabic script only long vowels are obligatorily indicated in writing (unless it's a religious text like the Bible of the Qur'an, in which case all short vowels are indicated too, by means of diacritics). Since "Muslim" (مسلم) has no long vowels, its pronunciation will vary depending on the speaker's dialect. If I remember correctly, pronunciations with "o" are more indicative of Persian influence (as classical Arabic does not have this sound; it is found in dialects, however), cf. "Ayatollah" from Arabic آية الله (approximately "Ayatullah", 'sign of God'). So "Muslim" is closer to classical Arabic, but "Moslem" is an acceptable variant (apparently everywhere but the spell-check for this board, that is).

This is a legitimate question I am asking, no malice intended. I used to ask myself the same question about Christianity until I was able to examine the history that ultimately convinced me that Orthodoxy is true, original Christianity. But with Islam how do we know? Every time I have asked a Muslim that question, they usually respond to me with 'read the Quran and you will know', but, I do not understand how to interpret the Quran and like Orthodoxy, I am aware that many Muslims rely on the guidance from the interpretations of Muslim scholars (for lack of a better term) throughout the ages to guide them. So how does one read the Quran to discover 'true Islam'. Likewise, how do I even know if my interpretation is correct? And what makes my interpretation or even your interpretation valid at all? How do we judge it? Certainly many of the Islamic radicals throughout history whom we would condemn could also argue that the Quran justified their behavior. So what is 'true Islam'?

Be reasonable, Nikolaos...not even I like all Christinas...there are too many in the world to judge, but I bet at least some of them are jerks! I mean, by the law of averages, they'd have to be!

Kerdy:

I'm not the OP (obviously), but in the Arabic script only long vowels are obligatorily indicated in writing (unless it's a religious text like the Bible of the Qur'an, in which case all short vowels are indicated too, by means of diacritics). Since "Muslim" (مسلم) has no long vowels, its pronunciation will vary depending on the speaker's dialect. If I remember correctly, pronunciations with "o" are more indicative of Persian influence (as classical Arabic does not have this sound; it is found in dialects, however), cf. "Ayatollah" from Arabic آية الله (approximately "Ayatullah", 'sign of God'). So "Muslim" is closer to classical Arabic, but "Moslem" is an acceptable variant (apparently everywhere but the spell-check for this board, that is).

"Be reasonable, Nikolaos...not even I like all Christinas...there are too many in the world to judge, but I bet at least some of them are jerks! I mean, by the law of averages, they'd have to be! "

If you don't mind, I'll get back to this question at a later date, because it's such a complex issue.

But essentially, there are two types of ends..... there is the end of the world-- judgement day (which only God knows when) and the end of falsehood (where truth would eliminate falsehood... ie Messiah will return and eliminate the false messiah).

For the latter, there a many signs from hadiths, and here are some that affects non Muslims:

"That the slave-girl gives birth to her mistress and master, and that you would find barefooted, destitute shepherds of goats vying with one another in the construction of magnificent buildings.

Disproportion in population of men and women to such an extent that “one man would match (not marry) fifty women”.

Homosexuality would become commonplace.

Women would dress like men and Men would dress like women.

Women would be dressed but will seem to be naked.

People will commit adultery in public.

So these are a few signs, but there are many more -- and I'll try to cover them in a future post.

"The religion of peace", tired of hearing this after all the murders and atrocities reported all over the world in the name of Islam.

how can this be the religion of peace when you take int account all that is going on??

I have read that the murders commited are Not a part of the true Islam, it that correct? can you explain that to me?

I hear you, and understand your frustration. As I was alluding to earlier, we're living at the time what is called "the fitna of dajjal". Or in english, "the chaotic times of the antichrist".

Everything is suppose to be chaotic, and all religions are being infiltrated and demonized.

One of the prophecies mentioned about the 'fitna of dajjal' is that...

“Nothing would remain of Islam but the name, and nothing would remain of the Qur’an but the traces (of its writing)"

That is, the Qur’an would not be studied, no one would follow its guidance, it would be recited mechanically etc.); the Masajid (mosques) would be grand structures but would be devoid of guidance; and the religious scholars of Islam who represent such people, would be the worst people beneath the sky.

So a lot of the barbaric acts we're seeing, is a sign that we're living in age of the antichrist...unfortunately. So don't think that these acts are encouraged by the religion, they're not. These acts are the result of poverty and lack of education (which the antichrist created by imposing a monetery system based on usury). As a result, these weak people, out of envy, have decided to to use religion to rationalize their anger against other groups.

Quote

What about the war like writings in the koran instructing to kill the infadels. Note, i have not read the Koran, im going by what i have heard, so i could be wrong, please let me know.

In Islam, it's perfectly acceptable to defend yourself from aggressive enemies who want to kill you and your family. So those verses were revealed to the prophet, during times of war, when other groups wanted to kill his early followers.

The prophet tried to make peace treaties with his enemies, and unfortunately the treaty was ignored and his enemies kept attacking his camp. That's when the 'war like' verses came, saying to defeat the others, who're trying to harm you-- but the next verse (which a lot of critics ignore) says explicitly, don't hurt the enemy if they apologize.

Then read the quran, and you'll get a better picture. Remember, when studying these verses, it's important to study the setting and timing they were revealed.

Quote

Why do they HATE Christinas soooo much?

Cant belive no one else asked these questions. plitically corectness should be out the door by now considering every day something new is happening in the name of Islam!

Again, Muslims are not suppose to HATE anyone. Remember I said, the jinns feed off of that negative energy.

In terms of relations with Christians, it's strongly encouraged in the religion to try to be friends with Christians (the eastern Christians specifically) as they are the closest who'll understand our lifestyle.

There is although one verse, talking about not to become allies with Christians who have an alliances (militarily) with Jews. Please note that at the time, it was very rare for such a military alliance to be in existence.... there was a lot of animosity between the two religious community.

It's only in the modern era (post 1940s-era), that we're seeing these types of alliances to be very common. Specifically the Zionist community, or the christian involved in Freemasonry or the Orange order which promotes Zionism. So it's those people we're discouraged to be allies with.

I have two questions. The first is for clarification. Is it Muslim or Moslem or something else, officially?

The second is, well, I'm not sure how to word it. In Christian circles, if a group calling themselves Christian did the things "radical" Islamist do, the rest of us would not put up with it and we would do everything we could to correct the problem. Why is the Islamic world so very different and virtually apathetic to the jihadists?

I realize Christianity and Islam will always be at odds, but seeing the things in the world today as they are, I just thought more people would stand up against the whack jobs. I know some do and many die as a result; however, percentage wise it's almost nothing.

I've been to that part of the world and seen how things go. I have seen people who hate Americans help us because the ones fighting us are killing them too, but I saw very little of them fighting for themselves. Is it some sort of fear?

I've never met a Muslim I wanted to kill, much less just because he was Muslim and no other reason. To me it seems like an irrational hatred for anything different to them. It reminds me of white supremacy of years gone by, only worse.

In terms of the radical elements of the religion, I've addressed the reasons in the previous post. Please take a look and if you have any more questions, let me know.

But about, people not standing up against the whack job..... believe me, a lot have. For example, the shia Iranians were fighting the radical Wahhabi groups residing in Afganistan throughout the 90s--- long before the US entered that region. They also helped US get rid of the Taliban in 2001-2002 ..... but then Bush delivered that 'axis of evil' speech and that military 'relationship' fell apart quickly.

About pronouncing Moslim or Muslim, ...these are semantic issues. It doesn't really matter.... a muslim, is an individual who's trying to live a pious life and seeking and sharing universal truths.

How do you reconcile this belief with the fact that the conclusions of sociologists who have studied the socioeconomic and educational level of terrorists points to them often being more educated and economically stable than the average person in their societies? From the linked article:

Quote

Claude Berrebi of the RAND Corporation compared the characteristics of suicide-bombers recruited by Hamas and Islamic Jihad from the West Bank and Gaza with those of the general adult male Palestinian population. Nearly 60% of suicide-bombers had more than a high-school education, compared with less than 15% of the general population. They were less than half as likely to come from an impoverished family as an average adult man from the general population.

The rules of this message board limit how much text can be quoted from an article, but elsewhere in this paragraph the author notes that Berrebi did a similar study in Shi'a-dominated southern Lebanon and found the same results: The terrorists from that area were more educated and less likely to come from poor families than the surrounding (majority) population who are not terrorists.

This is a legitimate question I am asking, no malice intended. I used to ask myself the same question about Christianity until I was able to examine the history that ultimately convinced me that Orthodoxy is true, original Christianity. But with Islam how do we know? Every time I have asked a Muslim that question, they usually respond to me with 'read the Quran and you will know', but, I do not understand how to interpret the Quran and like Orthodoxy, I am aware that many Muslims rely on the guidance from the interpretations of Muslim scholars (for lack of a better term) throughout the ages to guide them. So how does one read the Quran to discover 'true Islam'. Likewise, how do I even know if my interpretation is correct? And what makes my interpretation or even your interpretation valid at all? How do we judge it? Certainly many of the Islamic radicals throughout history whom we would condemn could also argue that the Quran justified their behavior. So what is 'true Islam'?

I'll tell you what I think is true Islam. It's a way of life that if you follow correctly, will help you have peace with others and peace with yourself (ie. won't struggle with addictions). The prophet said, that in this world, it's like hell to the believer and heaven for the non-believer... but the hereafter, will be heaven for the believer and hell for the nonbeliever.

The religion will help direct you in the right path, so the hellish pain doesn't disrupt the peaceful relationships you have in your life.

As to how to interpret the Quran....when you start, it's recommend you follow the way scholars in the past has interpreted them. If you follow the religion correctly and with pure intentions... (ie. praying, not drinking, not commiting sin, ...etc.) slowly but surely, you'll gain more knowledge. Then you'll constantly be thinking, and see all sorts of patterns showing up in your life that are not coincidences....then your intuition/heart will try to make an explanation for this pattern. If this pattern is noticed by others... specificaly muslims, then it is something worth to research. So then if you study the Quran from the perspective of your intuition, you'll interpret a lot of things differently than scholars. If you've noticed a verse that matches the explanation of the pattern you've noticed earlier, then it is the correct interpretation.

As for the radicals who interpret the Quran-- their interpreting the Quran when their hearts are filled with anger, envy, fear, ...etc. The valid interpretations happen only when you study the verses with a pure heart/intuition--- that is, no negative emotions residing in your body.

How does present-day Muslims generally chooce which kind of interpretations of Islam to follow since there aren't any churches or popes to decide that for individuals?

Does Muslims generally and/or some specific groups within Islam consider lack of Caliph anyhow problematic? Are there any movements to revive some form of Caliphate?

Yes, from my understanding of the religion, we're not suppose to have a hierarchical system in the religion, where there has to be a leader to decide things for individuals.

This is why the kabba is a cube, and not a pyramid--- to give a sign that this religion is not hierarchical.

The only leaders we should follow, are those that have divine knowledge... Jesus, and the mahdi.

A lot of sunnis are asking for the Caliph to rule them, because they were raised in a political systems ruled by monarchy-- they're stuck in that mindset. But that's not the correct way.... because the quran said that you should focus on issues at the tribal/local level.....and also the prophet didn't explicitly say for anyone to rule over all the Muslims after his death. Because God works through you...... through your heart/intuition. You don't need to seek a leader like a pope to get you answers from God.

Why is it written in the Qur'an that Jesus' mother Mary was the daughter of Amram (Surah 3:35, Surah 66:12) and sister of Aaron (Surah 19:28)? Isn't it obvious that the author of the Qur'an accidentally assimilated the Miriam of the Old Testament (Daughter of Amram in 1 Chronicles 6:3; Sister of Aaron in Exodus 15:20) to Jesus' mother Miriam?

Did Islam mess up the entire Middle East? Be honest about it. I mean, I'll be the first one to admit that the Roman Catholic Church messed up western Europe during the Dark Ages and screwed up Latin America.