Honky, my cardiologist was against running. I fired him. I think most doctors are used to treating the average American walking dead and are afraid of vigorous activity.

Same here, I cancelled my appointments and flushed the meds in 2009. Haven't been back. Getting snared in that chemically induced anti health racket again, is reason enough for me to never miss another day running.

Unfortunately, that isn't an option for some of us. Unless we want to die a premature death. And I'm about as anti-pharma as an industry insider can get.

Running/other exercise and diet can reduce or eliminate the need for meds, but please don't go to Stupidville and drop these without understanding the impact.

Honky, my cardiologist was against running. I fired him. I think most doctors are used to treating the average American walking dead and are afraid of vigorous activity.

Same here, I cancelled my appointments and flushed the meds in 2009. Haven't been back. Getting snared in that chemically induced anti health racket again, is reason enough for me to never miss another day running.

Unfortunately, that isn't an option for some of us. Unless we want to die a premature death. And I'm about as anti-pharma as an industry insider can get.

Running/other exercise and diet can reduce or eliminate the need for meds, but please don't go to Stupidville and drop these without understanding the impact.

The bottom line is that if you don't want to run, you'll find an excuse whether it's good or not. We've all wanted to quit at one time or many. "I'm too busy" can actually be somewhat legitimate. It's a lot more than 1/2 hour a day. Add to that 1/2 hour the following: a few minutes getting your stuff together and getting dressed, getting to your running location if you can't run starting at your house, unforeseen delays like avoiding a loose dog, cool-down time, post run foam roller and stretching, shower afterward, an additional load (or two) of laundry every week,etc. We spend more time than you might think at this sport. It's a little like church. We go almost every week but it annoys me when I hear someone say it's only an hour a week. It takes a weekend morning when you figure everything that's involved. I don't mind but when you figure that's about a 1/4 of your daylight weekend time, it matters. If you really don't want to run, "too busy" could be a major excuse.

Running/other exercise and diet can reduce or eliminate the need for meds, but please don't go to Stupidville and drop these without understanding the impact.

That goes both ways. Don't blindly follow a doctor's (and his referred "specialists") slippery slope downward spiral into pharmaceuticalville without understanding the impact, getting as many opinions as you can, and using every source of research you can find.

Running/other exercise and diet can reduce or eliminate the need for meds, but please don't go to Stupidville and drop these without understanding the impact.

That goes both ways. Don't blindly follow a doctor's (and his referred "specialists") slippery slope downward spiral into pharmaceuticalville without understanding the impact, getting as many opinions as you can, and using every source of research you can find.

Been there, got advice didn't like potential impacts, went somewhere else and got another solution that didn't involve a penny going to a drug company.

9. I can't afford it. I'll almost buy that if you look at the nonsense fashion show some folks put on at races. You can spend a ton of money on the fanciest new gear but the reality is that you don't have to. My normal training shoe is Asics Nimbus which has a retail price of $140. However, if you buy last year's model, you can get it for half that.

Where are you finding last year's Nimbus model for half price? Aside from the Nimbus shoe going up $5 every year, like clockwork, and going down in quality every year, it does get rather expensive when you go through a shoe every 6-8 weeks, so I'd love to find it for 1/2 the price rather than the $120 I pay for last year's model.

7. My (calf) (hip) (ankle) (knee) (hamstring) (lateral medial aspect of my anterior tibialis recursive flexor tensor which I looked up on Dr. Google) hurts. Look. Running is hard. It takes years for your muscles, joints, ligaments and tendons to adapt to the pounding running puts on them. Early on, I had hip bursitis so bad it made me nearly cry on the first half mile of every run. It started after I'd been running 3 or 4 months and it lasted a solid year or more before it finally went away. Almost every new runner experiences a series of aches and pains for the first few months. I'd love to tell you how to distinguish between normal aches and pains and the precursor of an injury but I can't. You just have to keep running and hope it's the former and not the latter. Regardless, something is going to hurt, it may hurt badly, and you have to decide whether you will quit because of it.

Hmm, not sure about this advice. I'm not sure we should be telling people to just "rub some dirt on it."

.....................................

As far as I can tell, you yourself have years of experience with functional strength training (which includes bodyweight exercises) and possibly running from your military background, but you never say so except in certain chat threads. It's misleading to not talk about this when you say that strength training is useless. Or maybe that is why you dismiss ST so much, because of a particular experience. Again, if that is the case, I think you should explain that, if you are going to make vociferous and grandiose proclamations and threads about the utility of ST.

He has about 5-6 years of running. He has read a few books and from that believes he is the most knowledgeable person out there when it comes to running. He is both narcissistic and arrogant.

I will give him credit. He has done a great job of learning about the sport and improving his running. He does give some good advice. But there is little tolerance for beliefs other than his though. And frankly, if he wasn't such an a s s when delivering his opinions I might respect him more. I find it interesting that he continually posts in beginners forums and doesn't venture out to where you find more advanced runners. But then he wouldn't get to play the "hey look at me" card he loves so much.

The main problem I have with his advice is that he is absolute unconcerned about how many beginners (and intermediate) runners he gets injured. He seems to get a perverse thrill of seeing the vast majority of beginners quit. (He has stated this explicitly in previous threads. He likes laughing about it and mocking those people. His words, not mine.) Is he paying for the medical bills of people who may get injured following his overly aggressive advice? No. Is he doing a service to all of those sedentary people who end up quitting because of AVOIDABLE injuries? No. I'm particularly concerned because many beginners seem to take to his authoritative and dictatorial tone, no matter what he says. Some of it is sensible but a lot of it is just plain harmful or wrong.

Pushing to the edge and being aggressive in training might work for an advanced athlete who has years and years of solid training experience, along with strong muscles, tendons and ligaments, and an efficient neuromuscular system. Most beginners have none of that. So for them to follow the aggressive approach that an Olympic runner might is foolhardy and reckless. Simple as that. Performance should not be the overriding goal when we're talking about individuals who are merely trying to get started on a regular fitness program that includes running.

P.S. He has more than 6 yrs. of lifetime running experience. Again, based on his own words "when I used to run", referring to the period before he officially restarted running 6 yrs. ago. I don't think I'm mistaken here because I've read his references to this earlier period on multiple threads.

And by the way the OP has brought this topic up many times in the past. I don't know what his odd obsession is with people who start running and then quit (completely un-shocking by the way and an observation that is not unique to Love the Half) but it is like watching a stalker in action.

Lord of the Run joined the site. May 24, 2012 3:11 PM

Interesting perspective from someone that joined the site yesterday. You must be a charter member of the LTH Stalker / Fan club.

"7. My (calf) (hip) (ankle) (knee) (hamstring) (lateral medial aspect of my anterior tibialis recursive flexor tensor which I looked up on Dr. Google) hurts. Look. Running is hard. It takes years for your muscles, joints, ligaments and tendons to adapt to the pounding running puts on them. Early on, I had hip bursitis so bad it made me nearly cry on the first half mile of every run. It started after I'd been running 3 or 4 months and it lasted a solid year or more before it finally went away. Almost every new runner experiences a series of aches and pains for the first few months. I'd love to tell you how to distinguish between normal aches and pains and the precursor of an injury but I can't. You just have to keep running and hope it's the former and not the latter. Regardless, something is going to hurt, it may hurt badly, and you have to decide whether you will quit because of it."

You need to figure out why you're hurting. After 35+ years of running and weight training I'm pretty decent in my ability to tell "training sore" from "injury sore". It's great to have a hard time getting off the toilet the day after hard work, a bunch of hill sprints or squats. Not good because you wrenched your back somehow while you were exercising.

I feel that until someone can learn the difference between the 2 types of hurt, they error on the side of caution, do some research into the problem (including but not limited to a doctor visit) while recovering.

You forgot, in my opinion, the most important reason of all--it's BORING! If it was as interesting and exciting as watching three-hour football game, there would be no more beer bellies.

And why's it even necessary to run/exercise? People are living longer than ever, thanks to the wonders of modern medical science. Given a choice of suffering through 30 of sheer misery, or sit and watch Big Bang Theory, which do you think most people would choose?

It's not for everyone. And by that I mean not everyone has the mental fortitude (or the motivation) to go out, day after day, despite many obstacles (or excuses) that get in the way.

As much as I hate this post, most of it is sadly true. I know when I first started exercising, I quit several times. It didn't help that I was well out of shape and was trying P90X. It took about a year from purchase before I decided that I would stick it out.

The one about the gear stood out to me the most. I remember my first 5k I was very intimidated. Everyone was dressed "the part" and there I was with my $45 running shoes, Tennessee Tech shirt and nordic track shorts. But I found out ten seconds in that I was faster than 95% of them. The gear didn't matter.

I say if people want to quit, they should. Running shouldn't feel like a job. I run for emotional health as well as physical health. It's very therapeutic for me. I have "quit" several times. But I find another way to stay active. P90X, Insanity, strength training, etc. As long as I'm being active that's all that matters. I will always find time for it. No excuses, just adjustments.

HEHE I love you Moth but its 2013 not 2012 so he joined the site one year and one day ago

And trust me in 366 days thats plenty of time to have seen 2-3 threads like this from LTH

Originally Posted by MothAudio:

Originally Posted by Lord of the Run:

And by the way the OP has brought this topic up many times in the past. I don't know what his odd obsession is with people who start running and then quit (completely un-shocking by the way and an observation that is not unique to Love the Half) but it is like watching a stalker in action.

Lord of the Run joined the site. May 24, 2012 3:11 PM

Interesting perspective from someone that joined the site yesterday. You must be a charter member of the LTH Stalker / Fan club.

HEHE I love you Moth but its 2013 not 2012 so he joined the site one year and one day ago

And trust me in 366 days thats plenty of time to have seen 2-3 threads like this from LTH

Originally Posted by MothAudio:

Originally Posted by Lord of the Run:

And by the way the OP has brought this topic up many times in the past. I don't know what his odd obsession is with people who start running and then quit (completely un-shocking by the way and an observation that is not unique to Love the Half) but it is like watching a stalker in action.

Lord of the Run joined the site. May 24, 2012 3:11 PM

Interesting perspective from someone that joined the site yesterday. You must be a charter member of the LTH Stalker / Fan club.

I'm a neutral bystander in this whole debate, but that's a pretty funny observation!

9. I can't afford it. I'll almost buy that if you look at the nonsense fashion show some folks put on at races. You can spend a ton of money on the fanciest new gear but the reality is that you don't have to. My normal training shoe is Asics Nimbus which has a retail price of $140. However, if you buy last year's model, you can get it for half that.

Where are you finding last year's Nimbus model for half price? Aside from the Nimbus shoe going up $5 every year, like clockwork, and going down in quality every year, it does get rather expensive when you go through a shoe every 6-8 weeks, so I'd love to find it for 1/2 the price rather than the $120 I pay for last year's model.

Running Warehouse has the Nimbus 14 for $94.88 with free shipping. You get an additional 15% off if you use the discount code FB15D. That brings it to $80.65. Not quite half off but pretty close. They also have the Cumulus 14 for $72.88. After 15% off it goes down to $61.95.

I'm lucky and can use nearly any neutral shoe and run in it until it falls apart. My favorite shorts and t-shirt were purchased 3 years ago from the discount rack at Marshall's. My best cold weather gear is an old cotton Starter hoodie. I run cheap.

I may be wrong but I assume most beginners are going to average less than 20 miles a week and get about 6 months from a pair of shoes. Even at $130 a pair that is only $5.00 a week. How much do you spend on fast food and your daily coffee? I know money is tight for a lot of people but most of us can figure out a way to save $5 a week to improve our health.

I may be wrong but I assume most beginners are going to average less than 20 miles a week and get about 6 months from a pair of shoes. Even at $130 a pair that is only $5.00 a week. How much do you spend on fast food and your daily coffee? I know money is tight for a lot of people but most of us can figure out a way to save $5 a week to improve our health.

Well, yeah, that's what I figured too when I wasn't spending $5 a day on shoes... $150 a couple of times a year, no big deal, but when you do that 8 times a year it gets a bit pricey. I don't drink coffee or eat out.

I wasn't complaining, though, just never saw Nimbus for 1/2 price ever, so I asked. I'll check out Running Warehouse. Thanks for the tip!

Yes, LTH is a loud voice that we love to bristle at. He's a little rough around the edges, but is a generally nice guy when you dig down a bit. And yes, generally right. Maybe we should nickname him the General? I think it'd be fitting in a few ways.

Let's be honest, folks, it's the internet. Everyone's got an opinion, it's up to the reader to educate themselves enough with reputable sources to use some discernment to not go and injure themselves.

LTH, just because someone doesn't persevere at running doesn't mean they necessarily lack perseverance. Be careful with that.

For the record, there IS such a thing as too hot, too cold, or too sore --but those bounds are generally further out than we give ourselves credit for. Those bounds DO change as our bodies are more or less acclimated through the year. In 2010 I ran a hill workout in 108* heat index in August. But the 82* heat index during my race on 5/19 about drove me to the medical tent. (20/20 hindsight, I should have gone.) Acclimation can make all the difference - it's not just a pacing issue! There are conditions we just plain can't dress or acclimate for. There's a reason why the US military doesn't ask much of our soldiers while they're sitting for 4-6 weeks in Kuwait before going to theater.

Some people are willing to take the risk to find where their limits are quickly. Some will be more cautious. But remember this is a BEGINNERS forum, and most of us would like to see the runners around here remain healthy and stick around for a while. Since I know you, LTH, I know that is what you're really after with this post.

__________

When it comes to running, you make the rules. If you're not having fun, change the rules.

"7. My (calf) (hip) (ankle) (knee) (hamstring) (lateral medial aspect of my anterior tibialis recursive flexor tensor which I looked up on Dr. Google) hurts. Look. Running is hard. It takes years for your muscles, joints, ligaments and tendons to adapt to the pounding running puts on them. Early on, I had hip bursitis so bad it made me nearly cry on the first half mile of every run. It started after I'd been running 3 or 4 months and it lasted a solid year or more before it finally went away. Almost every new runner experiences a series of aches and pains for the first few months. I'd love to tell you how to distinguish between normal aches and pains and the precursor of an injury but I can't. You just have to keep running and hope it's the former and not the latter. Regardless, something is going to hurt, it may hurt badly, and you have to decide whether you will quit because of it."

Its funny because as a self described "beginner" I actually appreciated and "think" I understood what he meant by this. I've been off and on running for 20 years. I've had all sorts of pain, some easily diagnosed, some not. Some required absolute rest, some I really did need to run through it.

In very limited cases a doctor/medical professional (ie physio therapist) was able to tell me what was wrong. In many of the cases I needed to listen to my body (which equated to running more) to address the pain. Too often describing any pain to a doctor the easy answer was "quit running". Too often the doctor had no idea.

I'm dealing with shoulder pain (been going on for 1.5 years now). I've tried medical professionals from all walks of life. No one has been able to find a cause and fix. A month ago I decided that I needed to "listen to my body" and figure it out. 1 month pain free now (1st time I've gone that long in a year).

And as a "beginner" that's what I took from his point...sometimes YOU need to listen to your body and figure it out (not someone else). No one else can feel what you feel and no one else is as motivated as you are to fix it.

ETA: (I did not get the impression he was saying "don't go to a doctor")

I may be wrong but I assume most beginners are going to average less than 20 miles a week and get about 6 months from a pair of shoes. Even at $130 a pair that is only $5.00 a week. How much do you spend on fast food and your daily coffee? I know money is tight for a lot of people but most of us can figure out a way to save $5 a week to improve our health.

Well, yeah, that's what I figured too when I wasn't spending $5 a day on shoes... $150 a couple of times a year, no big deal, but when you do that 8 times a year it gets a bit pricey. I don't drink coffee or eat out.

I wasn't complaining, though, just never saw Nimbus for 1/2 price ever, so I asked. I'll check out Running Warehouse. Thanks for the tip!

LTH wrote: "So, prove me wrong. If you just started running in the last three months, take a bold leap and put your name in this thread. But, and here is the important part. You have to make your running log public. I don't know if you can make logs public here but there are other sites such as Running Ahead and Daily Mile where your log can be public (although, by default, your routes are not public). Having a publicly viewable log makes you accountable to everyone including you. Obviously, the choice is always yours to change those settings and no running police will come looking for you if you do so.

Maybe we'll call it the 2013 Memorial Day Challenge and we'll look this thread back up on Memorial Day 2014 and see how many actually did manage to hang in there for an entire year. I honestly do wish you the best of luck and hope to be terribly and horribly wrong in my prediction."

I'm only a beginner. I shouldn't be walking, let alone running. Severe nerve damage in my right leg caused drop foot, neuropathy, and muscle atrophy. I taught myself to walk again, stopped taking the narcotic pain meds, and ditched my orthotic a few years ago. In February, I decided to see if I could run. My gait took a little work...and its still less than perfect. I run 4 days a week and I love it. When you've been crippled, even short runs are little victories.

I'm running my first 5k on June 22. To be honest, I'm nervous...not because I doubt my running. I'm nervous because other runners can be real *******s.....not all of them....but runners like the OP. I didn't start running so that I could fit in with guys like the OP. I didn't start running so that I could puff my chest out and measure swords with guys like the OP. I didn't start running because I have dreams of Olympic glory or even Marathon glory. I started running because I wanted to see what I had in myself. I started runnning because I wanted to live longer and healthier. I started running so that I can keep up with my son as he grows into a young man. I will continue to run as long as I can, as long as I feel like it, and as long as my body will allow because running is like church for me. I'm addicted to the short stuggle that exists in running....I start out (maybe a good day, maybe a bad day), I get warmed up and feel infinite, I feel amazed at how much I'm improving, and then by the end of the run I begin to feel like I could or should stop....but I keep pushing. Once I finish, I feel amazing and that propels me into my next run. There's no room in my running experience for guys like the OP.

LTH wrote: "So, prove me wrong. If you just started running in the last three months, take a bold leap and put your name in this thread. But, and here is the important part. You have to make your running log public. I don't know if you can make logs public here but there are other sites such as Running Ahead and Daily Mile where your log can be public (although, by default, your routes are not public). Having a publicly viewable log makes you accountable to everyone including you. Obviously, the choice is always yours to change those settings and no running police will come looking for you if you do so.

Maybe we'll call it the 2013 Memorial Day Challenge and we'll look this thread back up on Memorial Day 2014 and see how many actually did manage to hang in there for an entire year. I honestly do wish you the best of luck and hope to be terribly and horribly wrong in my prediction."

I'm only a beginner. I shouldn't be walking, let alone running. Severe nerve damage in my right leg caused drop foot, neuropathy, and muscle atrophy. I taught myself to walk again, stopped taking the narcotic pain meds, and ditched my orthotic a few years ago. In February, I decided to see if I could run. My gait took a little work...and its still less than perfect. I run 4 days a week and I love it. When you've been crippled, even short runs are little victories.

I'm running my first 5k on June 22. To be honest, I'm nervous...not because I doubt my running. I'm nervous because other runners can be real *******s.....not all of them....but runners like the OP. I didn't start running so that I could fit in with guys like the OP. I didn't start running so that I could puff my chest out and measure swords with guys like the OP. I didn't start running because I have dreams of Olympic glory or even Marathon glory. I started running because I wanted to see what I had in myself. I started runnning because I wanted to live longer and healthier. I started running so that I can keep up with my son as he grows into a young man. I will continue to run as long as I can, as long as I feel like it, and as long as my body will allow because running is like church for me. I'm addicted to the short stuggle that exists in running....I start out (maybe a good day, maybe a bad day), I get warmed up and feel infinite, I feel amazed at how much I'm improving, and then by the end of the run I begin to feel like I could or should stop....but I keep pushing. Once I finish, I feel amazing and that propels me into my next run. There's no room in my running experience for guys like the OP.

You sir are a real runner. Best of luck with your recovery/rehab. Have fun at your 5k.

You joined the site less than a month ago. Seeing that LTH doesn't post much here anymore it would seem premature to judge him based on your limited exposure. You apparently don't know much about him, aside from the fact he enjoys making provocative posts, because your profile and fundamental reasons for running are quite similar to his [like you stole his bio].

I'm quite sure as an overweight, middle-aged, chain smoker his original goals were about as lofty as making it around the block w/o falling over. The principal difference between you is that you're just beginning and he's continued to run, so it'd not unthinkable that his perspective has evolved. Don't take his posts so seriously, he's just looking to stir debate. Good luck with the recovery and the running.

You joined the site less than a month ago. Seeing that LTH doesn't post much here anymore it would seem premature to judge him based on your limited exposure. You apparently don't know much about him, aside from the fact he enjoys making provocative posts, because your profile and fundamental reasons for running are quite similar to his [like you stole his bio].

I'm quite sure as an overweight, middle-aged, chain smoker his original goals were about as lofty as making it around the block w/o falling over. The principal difference between you is that you're just beginning and he's continued to run, so it'd not unthinkable that his perspective has evolved. Don't take his posts so seriously, he's just looking to stir debate. Good luck with the recovery and the running.

Texaspete....you're sword is definitely bigger than mine . The closest thing to a sword that I own is an "official" Bear Grylls machete. Everytime I use it, I get this sudden urge to drink my own urine and I get all "disorientated" as Bear would say.

I particularly chuckled about the grammer/spelling pet peeves - I love it when someone believes and has the ability to say how the message is delivered is as important as the message. Of course when I'm corrected, and I often am, it annoys the crap out of me. .