Speaking of bidding, current high bidder for the Rare Form Griffey is legit. However, don’t know about that others (and specifically that bidder with 15k+ feedback who is the high bidder on seemingly every other auction).

Speaking of bidding, current high bidder for the Rare Form Griffey is legit. However, don’t know about that others (and specifically that bidder with 15k+ feedback who is the high bidder on seemingly every other auction).

I saw that rare form Griffey on one or two others I think but it's the other two right under that bidder that are setting off alarms for me. I don't have any, but if anyone has an eBay contact that will listen, and then investigate, something like this we need to use it. I feel like a generic complaint will be ignored

I guess I look at it another way, these would be the most highly sought after cards by all collectors of the 90's stuff. Many of these cards are available for the first time ever. They will bring astronomical prices.

Could be..,but many of the crusade protos sold by samho didnít bring astronomical despite being believed to be much rarer than these cards IIRC

Originally Posted by bigalbert

I guess I look at it another way, these would be the most highly sought after cards by all collectors of the 90's stuff. Many of these cards are available for the first time ever. They will bring astronomical prices.

It's really fun to hop on the 90's board this morning and see a bunch of people thinking the exact same thing that I was last night when I saw the prices pop for the epix. Not a surprise to see Pinnacle Man doing this. I call this play "The Showroom with a confederate". Namely draw a bunch of attention by popping the price on day one of a 10 day listing. Use 2 ID's to shill (high bids on all of them e***r(15387), y***i(15323)) and pump the price up, then if you can sucker someone in with a high bid, retract one of them and leave the new bidder with an elevated price. Or better yet, get them to go over the top of you and let it fly. Then sell your duplicates as a follow on offer to under-bidders. Personally I was already turned off by PM's aggressive pricing but seeing what has all the hallmarks of shilling? Yeah, I'll pass. Pretty lame.

Same for the McGwire (Epix Play). Pack issued. Same for all three sets they are selling.

So if these Epix sets were all packed issued, is it assumed that these particular Epix cards were backdoored or technically never put in packs because we know the consigner worked at Pinnacle and he has many other never released Pinnacles cards.

Also, who ever wins the Epix lots, I'd be very interested in the Barry Larkins.

First, frenzy bidding on Day 1 to build hype/get people talking. Controversy over the proof of shill bidding only brings further attention to the listings, but of course, alienates many potential bidders.

Second, have an article focusing on the listings on Beckett while everything is live.

Third, ride momentum all the way to the end and establish these cards as mythical status for years to come.

This is how hype builds up some inserts more than others (re: Crusade Reds). The fact that we all have been talking about these for almost 2 months now further markets everything indirectly. Think about the main things that create demand for a card and apply to these listings:

low print run/true rarity (check)

unique and visually stunning design (check)

produced from a popular and well-known product (check)

hardly ever seen/available for sale (check)

produced in the 90s (haha, check)

Then associate the words, ‘Pinnacle’ and ‘Bankruptcy’ and you have a monster on your hands. The appeal of bankruptcy cards has always been there. All of these factors have essentially built up the Crusade Reds to status they are today and some of these could follow suit.

Combine all of this with PWCC’s visibility and we get the perfect storm of insanity that we’re all currently witnessing.

Late October DallasCardShow listed bunch of Mirror Reds at auction then delisted cuz bidding was so low and reposted with high BIN. I can’t believe the market values have dramatically shifted where even the base pinnacle cards are commanding what PWCC’s auctions are at now.

I don’t think you can compare the Mirror Red listings from a few months back to these current listings because MRs have been surfacing here and there since 2000. The Rare Forms, some Select bases, Mirror Golds of certain players, and Pinnacle Cerftifed Epix cards all have never surfaced before.

Rather than a market shift, it’s more of that “Black Friday”-type rush with speculation of shill bidding served on the side

Perhaps some sour grapes instead of shill bidding? I don't have a stake in the game as buyer or seller, although I did toss out some early bids on a few cards that would have been cool to own before they exploded. All are significantly outside of my price comfort at this point. However, I don't find the cards themselves all that appealing aside form the fact they are unreleased. I don't know how I'd feel if Garvey was a subject, perhaps more like many of you who may be left out in the cold or out many $100s or $1000s if they did end up winning. I can't imagine two 10K+ members would jeopardize their reputations to shill something like this that obviously was going to see some high ending amounts regardless though.

There are more than enough people with too much money than they know what to do with in the card hobby though. I believe I have only topped the $500 mark twice in my life when it came to buying one item. One was a Robinson Leaf RC and the other was a Goudey Ruth. Neither rare by any standard, but both purchases had me second guessing spending that much money at one shot.

Emerald set is still up. The question is, with all the bankruptcy cards that recently surfaced, does this set make the print run on the Emerald Moment cards 31?

Great point. I view the Emerald Moments listed on PWCC/owned by PM as damage replacement copies/extras that were printed but never intended to be pack-released. Unfortunate, but reality. For comfort though, Emerald Moments of any player have been pretty hard to come by so I doubt a worst-case scenario of these being over produced like the Ď97 PC MGs.

I guess I look at it another way, these would be the most highly sought after cards by all collectors of the 90's stuff. Many of these cards are available for the first time ever. They will bring astronomical prices.

I think this is a major point and reason for the current high prices that is getting drowned out by all the shill bidding talk.

High prices for stuff like this would/will not be surprising in the least. What is surprising is how high how fast prices went. I have no way of knowing if shill bidding is happening, nor could i ever prove it, it just seems fishy that two user IDs popped on most of the auctions, including some duplicate listings for drastically different amounts.
Shilling isn't something I would usually even think of but there are enough flags popping up for me to really think it over. At the end of the day most of these would go for a decent chunk of change anyway. In a few days as auctions come closer to the end it will be interesting to see how many more people jump in.

Looks like all the '99 Ultra Masterpieces from clean sweep auctions that did not originally sell are back on eBay, graded by PSA. Seeing those grades makes me want to double check the ones I have. I don't remember seeing anything that would warrant those grades...just minor chipping.