PS3 Attitude: At the Eurogamer Expo, Steven Ter Heide from Guerrilla games showed off Killzone 3 using Move. With Ter Heide being Guerrilla Games’ Senior Producer, he’s had lots of experience playing the game with Move, and he makes it looks very easy, but he still admits that DualShockers will ‘run circles round Move players.’

However, the developer is very excited about the device, saying the book just has to be written for Move.
(Killzone 3, PS3)

So is there a game which has Move controls tacked on which is actually better than the DS3? Cause right now Move is looking less and less attractive.

@deadreckoning666 Where though? Devs are only tacking on Move instead of making games from the ground up and thats the problem. But with Move selling so slowly no one will risk making an exclusive Move game.

@Redlogic I care about Move as much as the PS3 fanboys care about Kinect

Move ill find its way eventually. Just give it some time. Maybe you should try it out first. Idk if u have or not.

"Devs are only tacking on Move instead of making games from the ground up and thats the problem. But with Move selling so slowly no one will risk making an exclusive Move game."

Hmm..well, I'll judge whether KZ3's controls are "tacked on" if and when I play it. Move is still in its infancy. As of right now, its not worth my money...but I know it'll get better with time.

Btw, bubs+ up for that comment to Redlogic. PS3 fanboys take every opportunity they get to shit on Kinect...yet alot of them have more than one bubble. PS3 fanboys can dish it out, but can't take it when their motion controller gets bashed.

Major Jack Hoff my hands fell sticky replaying to you, Are not this the guys who claim before they had to dumb down the controls on the move because they were too accurate compare to DS3?,I can't find the article now,but does anyone remembers.

Most FPS players will have thousands of hours practice with normal controllers and their use will be mapped into the muscle memory of the hands. The movement of my hands has literally become instinctive when following the commands of my brain when holding a DS3.

I believe that Move players will learn to adapt to Move controls, just like they learned to adapt to DS3 controls. Given enough time, Move controls can become second nature, too.

I love playing Move. But there's something about using it to turn in an FPS that doesn't seem like it would be fast enough. BUT, I've not played an FPS with motion before. Luckily, Move is optional on KZ3. If I don't like it, I can stick with the DS3.

Move selling so slowly? kinda hard to sell a product when retailers have to wait for more to come in stock o_O

i'm sure most local and online retailers have them in stock now, but for almost a week there it was difficult to find one (everywhere here in Charlotte, NC was sold out, online - amazon, target, walmart, bb).

I've told omega numerous times that Move is better then the dualshock in RUSE. He seems to refuse to accept that. So I've given up with him. You can only spend so much time trying to explain something to a troll before coming to the conclusion that his head is a one way wall:

So I have Move and can play through the campaign with it and use my Duelshock when playing online, oh no!

I am just happy to at least have the option to play such an awesome series as Killzone with such a great motion controller. Have you guys watched the knife combat trailers for Killzone 3? Looks to play SO up close and personal with Move.

I agree with you. I really like the Move tech but ive only seen 1 game that has been made for Move and that is sports champion that was made for Move and this is a good game but all the other games that have come out for move are made for the DS3 and have had move added onto them and every one is saying that the game plays better with the DS3 which I think is a bad move by Sony to get gamers to go out and buy move.

MS have got it right they way they are developing kinect as they have said to all the game developers that they have to make the games from the ground up to get the most of the tech.

Sony really need to start doing this to get move to compete with the Wii and drop the 3D support for the 10 users who have a 3D TV until it is a stranded TV input.

***Guerrilla’s QA testers are well versed with a DualShock controller – they are masters of the device – and because of this they are running rings round the Move players who are still new to the device.***

This is pretty much the same thing as FPS players who are masters of mouse/keyboard, but suck at console controllers, isn't it? Why wouldn't people who have been using the same controller for the last 10 years be better at someone who's been using a new controller for a few months? This is why so many traditional PC FPS gamers are looking for options to make their experience more like that of the PC (mouse/keyboard peripherals).

***Devs are only tacking on Move instead of making games from the ground up and thats the problem.***

There are 19 move exclusive titles so far, 15 of those out before the end of the year, more than a few this month alone.

***So is there a game which has Move controls tacked on which is actually better than the DS3?***

As far as Move being better than DS3... not for FPS games. Listening to people in MAG, they say it takes a long time to get used to the new controls, and most of them just stuck with the DS3 rather than spending the time to learn the new controls. One guy did love it for sniping, though.

Echochrome 2 seems to be the best 'tacked on' game so far, but it's unlikely that others won't come along. Dead Space: Extraction is going to be 'tacked on', but it honestly was built up already for use with Move and it will likely perform much better with the Move than the DS3 as well.

Personally, I still haven't gotten used to the controls of KZ2, with the fact that you have to actively zoom in and then actively zoom out is just so different than other FPS games, which I suck at in general. I think throwing learning to use Move on top of that for me would tie my brain up in a knot for a bit.

I think it depends on the player and how long they have been playing with move. I am a regular MAG player and am now starting to play better with move it just took some getting used to. Move it awesome I like it and i like how Sony added move support to some of there games I have just bought my first move controller and don't have to go spend even more money on games just have to download patches. Heavy rain and MAG are awesome with Move! Mag took a bit to get used to but loving it I was up till 3:30 am last night playin Mag with move lol

I just bought MAG and am starting almost from scratch (played a few hours on the MAG beta several months ago) with Move. Overall, I'm impressed, although MAG was actually not a great choice for me to try to learn to use Move because it's a hardcore shooter 9 months after release that also intentionally bejiggers up your controls until you upgrade. That's been rough for the first few ranks against seasoned MAG veterans, but it's getting better as upgrades have reduced recoil and whatnot. It's feeling more natural now, and I'm starting to see the advantages, especially at midrange and with sniping, but it sure wrecked my stats early on. :) lol. Eventually, I plan to play all new FPS with Move. It's an easier transition back and forth from PC to console shooters for me.

"I care about Move as much as the PS3 fanboys care about Kinect "So you admit to trolling? I wish the mods would perma ban you already.

As cgoodno eloquently said, people have mastered the controller so why wouldn't they run circles around Move players. It's the same for PC gaming for FPS against control players. It's simple. You're just here trolling and you even admit to it.

Actually it's selling quite well, and better than Sony expected with more than 300,000 sold in the first week. Plus the word of mouth is great if you look at the review scores MOve gets abot 7.5, but If you look at User reviews it's at 9+ so anyone that has one is enjoying it. Of course people that have just gotten the move will not be as adapet at the game as someone whose played the series with DS3 controlers for awhile. Given time with the Move controller I'm sure I'll be able to Kick some ass in KZ3. avengers1978 I've probably already killed you dozens of times in KZ2.
Fact is Move is fun and enjoyable, and I didn't get for playing games like KZ3, but will probably give it a go for awhile just to do it.

Stupidity.To be honest, I played MAG with move and didn't like it. But games like Sports Champions are a blast. I think there are different type of games that would work well with move that developers have to relize. For example strategy games are perfect for move and fighting games as well.

I kinda agree with Omega4I know, I knoe, I need to get my head examined!!! But the fact is that Devs have to implement the Move into games properly and originally, instead of simply copyng Wii implementations. Even though the Move controller can do more than than the Wii mote,devs are short changing the Move's implementation.

Everyone one the Killzone forums complain about the current implementation of Move in Killzone 3, where the crosshair (gun) is a floating reticule. It would be better implemented if the crosshair (gun) was fixed in the centre of the screen!

I don't know why the devs don't at least implement this option!!! They are discovering that the way they have currently implemented Move sucks for multiplyer gameplay!!!

"It would be better implemented if the crosshair (gun) was fixed in the centre of the screen!"

Think about that for a second. How exactly would you make that work? The Move would have to go back to central point of reference every time it moved the same way a joystick does. The difference is that we wouldn't be that accurate and would have a hard time getting it back to that exact point everytime. If you allow the user to just point at the screen and use the edges to turn it's much easier for them to pick up and play. What your saying sounds easy enough, but I don't it's really that simple.

If they want to make it more competitive I would say that they should tighten movement box around the ridicule and adjust it so that the more the ridicule move to the side of the screen the faster the camera turns.

Fixing the cursor to the centre of the screen: this was discussed by Steven Ter Heide during the session. They tried it early on but it simply didn't work. He described it as being a good way to lose your dinner.

@RememberThe357THey could just implement it like how a mouse works on PC FPSs, or simply leave the gun in the centre of the sreen and the Move pointer simply controls the field of view (i.e the camera), as opposed to controlling the crosshair (gun)!

Maybe I just can't imagine how it would work, but I can't get what your saying to work in my head. I understand it, but I just don't think it would work that well.

I think I'm with you in that I don't like the idea of controller the cross hairs independent of the screen, at least in FPS. Socom looked good with it and my brother said it played really well, but with FPS it doesn't seem very good.

Omega, look at the bigger picture here. Is it tacked on motion controls? yes, but look how easily it is to allow Move controls into their games. The Casual market wont look at these games and go "oh they play better with the DS3 so I dont want it." No, what they see is, these aren't the same crappy party games they've been thrown time and time again. These are different, and diverse compared to what other motion controls offer. Some of those casuals might not ever pick of a FPS game, but with move and its point and click accuracy they might give it a try. Sony know what they're doing.

And another thing, how many 3rd party games are built from the ground up for Kinect right now? How about none. Which is the same for Move right now. Give it time, it'll all change. There's too much potential in the move due to its accuracy for Devs not to take advantage of it.

nohe never said that. Its because everyone is so used to playing with a DS3 that its just natural to us. He actually said using the move once you get used to it is far more responsive and quicker to move across the screen. By the time the open BETA comes out and everyone gets used to using move it will be more even playing and maybe have an advantage.

My issue is the fact that shooters like K3 are using the kind of FPS motion where the guns move wherever you point, meaning when you aim you can move your gun all over the screen. It's not only hard to get used to but also makes it hard to turn around because you have to turn with your gun leading instead of having it stay in the middle.

I don't get why they wont have the gun placed in the middle like you would with any other shooter instead of using the shooting mechanic you see on on-rail shooters at the arcade.

@AlphaLol, you know what dude, I used to ask exactly what you said. That is, before I played MAG with MOVE.

You obviously havent tried MOVE with MAG yet have you?

Well OK. On MAG there is an option to lock the Iron Sights in the middle of the screen when you hold the L1 button to aim down the sight.

I selected this thinking it will be better than moving the gun all around the screen and trust me it was FAR worse. Its hard for me to explain why (cos I suck at explaining stuff lol), you need to try and experience it for yourself (if you havent).

But, I will try to explain anyways, when you move the controller the gun keeps on moving and doesnt stop moving until you aim it at the point which stops the gun from moving, if that makes any sense. The farther away it is from the point that stops the gun from turning, the more the guns moves around. When I try to shoot straight its quit hard cos the MOVE is so accurate and a slight twitch would make the gun move away from your target and u get owned in seconds. You can adjust the sensitivity of the iron sights and make it less sensitive, but then you cant move the gun fast enough, this is useless against moving targets. This is from my experience with MOVE, it will definetely require a lot of practice to get used to it, especially in FPS games.

But trust me the gun moving all over the screen is FAR easier than just keeping it in the center. Theres a reason why most Wii shooters and this game with motion controls, have the gun moving all around the screen, its feels more natural and more intuitive.

Personally, I am more interested in MOVE being implemented in more RPG,TPS and RTS games. Especially in Demons Souls (I hope this happens). Motion controllers are very difficult to use on an FPS games that is not on rails.

where does he say "The DS3 is an absolutely better experience than the Move" I am no big fan of move or motion controls myself, but I feel a lot of people don't know how to read / are jumping to outlandish conclusions in HOPE that move fails

not ONCE do GG say DS3 > move as a peripheral, merely that when it comes to KZ3, dualshock users are beating move users. its natural since:

a)people have been playing Killzone with a dualshock since Killzone 1 for the ps2 in 2001 (?) whereas move...only a few months b) move is NOT the same experience as DS3, thus pairing them up is like paring up DS3 user vs a keyboard / mouse user

It saddens me that people play dumb to try and prove their point, when their point doesn't even exist.

Watch the video. He says that ds3 players run circles around move plays is because their QA people are more familiar with the controller. He then says that in time, when people get used to the move then they expect it to level out and possible overtake ds3 players.

Relax people. Of course the dualshock is still more responsive than the Move control. Not that motion control is bad or anything, i just think we need to give it time to grow. At least we know which company is tossing out hardcore move titles.

People, the accuracy of Move is not the issue. The reason Dualshockers own Move players is because gamers have been using the controller forever. The Move is a totally NEW way of controlling your player, and it will take A LOT of time to master it.

I played MAG yesterday for the first time with Move. Got my ass tore up and only got a few kills after a couple games. It works, but when you have 15 years of gaming on a PS controller, going to something else is difficult.

Indeed, the Move is still so new that people simply need some time to get used to it and master it.
It's not beacuse it's less accurate or responsive than the DS. That's the point he is trying to make.

A veteran of a DS3 will always beat out a veteran of MOVE though. Move still may be fun to use for FPS, but it's not going to make you a better player unless you really suck with the DS3, and yeah, I know that it's not an issue of accuracy or responsiveness.

I am going to buy PS Move one day (probably when KZ3 comes out, just to try it out), but the day that I replace my DS3 with PS Move (and use it as my primary controller), is the day I no longer consider myself to be a gamer.

I doubt that. Move users could eventually overtake DS3 players as they become more familiar with it. Also, Move needs to be pinned down on the software end just like Metroid Prime 3 on the Wii showed that the Wiimote could be a great device for aiming from a first-person perspective.

Also, as others have previously stated, I'd like the option of having the reticule fixed at the center of the screen.

FunGun is totally right and those are my impressions as well after playing MAG for a couple of hours.

I found myself, when the action was hectic, looking at the center of the screen (where the pointer is supposed to be if you use a DS3) and losing visual contact with the move pointer. That is happening a lot less now.

Also to aim down the sights is not that easy, because move is quite sensible to small movements of your wrist, and you need to get used to it.

Nobody can expect to pick MOVE and start kicking asses right away. That aint happening. Your mind has to adapt first. It is kinda similar to transit from a twitchy shooter to KZ2.

Just tried it again. I dont know what is going on, but making the bounding box smaller doesnt seem to change it at all, a bug perhaps.

I'm starting to get a grip of it. Finally scored some kills, even one down the sights. I noticed a slight auto aiming in place. The trick was subtle: if you follow your target with the pointer close enough, and shoot, the auto aiming will do the rest for you. I guess you have to be inside of certain radius for it to work.

How do you work that one out the wii controller dose what the Move dose so its not new.

Move will be better than the DS3 once they start making games for Move rather then making the game for a DS3 and adding Move tech to it.

this is the reason why the move enabled games are scores are less then the DS3 version of the game.

I am not slagging Move off I like the tech but I really think sony need to tell developers to build games from the ground up for move to get the most out the tech like Nintendo have done with the wii remote.

You won't be able to get the same steady controls with motion devices. I think it could be fun to try out for a but it's not for longer sessions. Won't be as precise and your arm will get sore after a while.

You don't know what you are talking aboutYou don't (or at least I don't) play with your arms out stretch). You arms are on your lap. The movement is minimal wrist movement. The precision is very good as well. I was quite surprised at how much tweaking of the controls you can do and how fast, responsive and accurate it can be (mostly talking about MAG with Move here).

The mistake people are making is thinking this is going to replace the DS which it won't. It's a very functional option for people who aren't already used to using a DS controller. It is a little more fun and a lot easier to pick up right away. Casual gamers will eat it up.

I'm still 20 times better with the DS but not because of any lack in how Move works but more in my familiarity with using the DS which I have thousands of hours of practice with.

There are some annoyances with Move (i.e. sitting 3 feet away from the camera is great on my 42" tv but on my 22" monitor it is not practical) but it works very well and my arms never got fatigued.

Ridiculous! Anyone else notice that anti-Move posts are usually prefaced with blanket statements about what "motion controls" are like when it seems obvious the individual isn't himself particularly knowledgeable about the topic? For MAG, you should find a comfortable position sitting down with your wrist almost at rest even when calibrating. You shouldn't be standing, jumping, swinging your arms wildly,or whatever or you are doing it wrong. Using Move for a shooter doesn't require much more exertion than non-motion devices. You can also adjust sensitivity settings; some suggested settings are available online, which made a huge difference.

another attention grabbing title which makes ppl not read the article. its stated the testers are masters of the device (the dualshock) where as the move controller is something you have to get used to. i've been using it with mag after adjusting my settings im starting to get back to my dualshock play level and im sure i will surpass it soon.

I don't think it's fair to compare the two kinds of control- atleast not in literal verses environment where players using the 2 types are competing- but rather, to look at how good an experience Move is providing. Tumble drove away any doubts I had about Move's accuracy.

ds3im not sold on motion controllers but the move is the oe i can see myself playing the most i havnt tried it yet and i wnt until mabe summer next year if sum really catches my interest mabe i'll buy but for now ds3

Took me years to master the dualshock for fps games cause I'm more of a keyboard and mouse user. It's just plain common sense that it takes time to master the Move for fps games cause it's a new type of controller.

Does this surprise anyone? Regardless of whether or not Move users are able to master aiming at what's currently on screen, a controller (or even better, KB/M) is always going to be better for rotating the screen as a whole.

It really doesn't matter so much in the end. If you want to learn how to use the Move controller and you play better with it then more power to you. If you decide to use the DSC then that's no problem either. See, you have a choice. KZ3 is going to be epic either way. I realize now why they separated the Move players from the DSC people.It's kind of not fair to be fighting against a tool that everyone knows how to use against something we are only now learning to use. But I would love to show up some DSC user with my Move controller and show them my skills.

I think it will just take time for players to adjust to playing with the move. With the Move, you have to be a lot more accurate, you can't just wiggle your stick around (spray and pray) when you're in a heated battle, you have to make quick and PRECISE movements because you're actually aiming at the screen.

At first in MAG when an enemy startled me, my reticle would be all over the place, but now i've learned that I can't play with the same mentality as when I have a controller. You really have to focus and the payoff is WAY BETTER accuracy, and response times. (reticle isn't fixed to the center and with the flick of your wrist the reticle is at the other end of the screen).

Move work freaking great with MAG. I didn't think it would work so well at first but man that was fun as heck. I see no reason why Move will not work just as good with Killzone 3 people just have to get use to using it is all.