Reminds me of a Private Eye cartoon showing two skinheads lying in wait for people to exit a self-defense class via an alley doorway: One skinhead is crowing "It's a doddle to get them when they're knackered." or words to that effect. In other words, the defense classes make them tired and easy pickings for the thugs.

hiker9999:Yep. Especially as the Einstein in the article removed the magazine (good)...then proceeded to play with the slide--without checking the chamber first (not so good)......

Yeah, he might have tried to dry fire it too but got the steps backwards (rack the slide then remove the mag) so he would have seen a round eject but it would have loaded a new one from the mag. That's why you check the chamber, and even then, you make sure it's pointed in a safe direction.

Molavian:iheartscotch: A Glock? Yep, a glock. I'm just not into a double action gun with no external safety.

/ I've never managed to shoot myself with my 1911.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE&feature=feedu

Except; I don't have a large, distracting hat. Plus, why would you run around with the hammer back in a 1911? It can't be fired with the hammer forward. Plus, I've practiced trigger discipline since I was 8.

/ not that accidents don't happen; but, accidents can be avoided with a little OCD

drewogatory:Plus, why would you run around with the hammer back in a 1911?

???? Are you advocating carrying with an empty chamber or trying to drop the hammer on a cocked 1911? Because either one of those options is stupid.

You've never manually lowered a hammer on a 1911? There's a pretty prominent safety feature on 1911s called the half cocked position. The gun will not fire with the hammer in the half cocked position. It's pretty heavily documented how to do it.

.5 - 1 pound is not the issue. The machine is not at fault, it's some idiot doing something stupid. It's fine you dislike glocks. I'm not a fan of them myself, but there is nothing mechanically wrong with them.

Glocks are fine, but they're particularly unforgiving if you don't follow the rules. A Glock's DA is usually pretty light too (compared to a DA/SA for instance).Where the fark to you people get your info. First off you're comparing apples to oranges.

First, Glocks are not SA or DA so comparing them to either is unfair, ignorant or both.Second they aren't some cat-fart trigger as you imply.

.5 - 1 pound is not the issue. The machine is not at fault, it's some idiot doing something stupid. It's fine you dislike glocks. I'm not a fan of them myself, but there is nothing mechanically wrong with them.

iheartscotch:drewogatory: Plus, why would you run around with the hammer back in a 1911?

???? Are you advocating carrying with an empty chamber or trying to drop the hammer on a cocked 1911? Because either one of those options is stupid.

You've never manually lowered a hammer on a 1911? There's a pretty prominent safety feature on 1911s called the half cocked position. The gun will not fire with the hammer in the half cocked position. It's pretty heavily documented how to do it.

IMO, if you choose to pull the farking trigger on a 1911 with a round in the chamber it had better be on the firing line.

The 1911 was designed to be carried with a round in the chamber, hammer back, and the manual safety engaged, ie "cocked and locked." With the presence of a grip safety in addition to the very positive and visible manual safety, it is about as safe as any other gun on the hands of someone who knows it's idiosyncrasies.

drewogatory:iheartscotch: drewogatory: Plus, why would you run around with the hammer back in a 1911?

???? Are you advocating carrying with an empty chamber or trying to drop the hammer on a cocked 1911? Because either one of those options is stupid.

You've never manually lowered a hammer on a 1911? There's a pretty prominent safety feature on 1911s called the half cocked position. The gun will not fire with the hammer in the half cocked position. It's pretty heavily documented how to do it.

IMO, if you choose to pull the farking trigger on a 1911 with a round in the chamber it had better be on the firing line.

I agree that you don't just go pointing a 1911 anywhere and manually lowering the trigger; but, once you get used to doing it, it's not hard. You're not gonna let your 10 year old do it; however.

Glocks are fine, but they're particularly unforgiving if you don't follow the rules. A Glock's DA is usually pretty light too (compared to a DA/SA for instance).Where the fark to you people get your info. First off you're comparing apples to oranges.

First, Glocks are not SA or DA so comparing them to either is unfair, ignorant or both.Second they aren't some cat-fart trigger as you imply.

.5 - 1 pound is not the issue. The machine is not at fault, it's some idiot doing something stupid. It's fine you dislike glocks. I'm not a fan of them myself, but there is nothing mechanically wrong with them.

You mad bro?

Oh he's mad.

Glocks technically are DA, but not in the same sense as a revolver or semi with an external hammer, but that's besides the point. What I was saying is that the trigger pull isn't heavy like in a DA/SA gun or a revolver, where the DA is closer to 10 lbs. The 5ish lbs is light for something that doesn't have a manual safety, it's very easy to pull the trigger by reflex without meaning to, which is why you keep your finger off it. That was my point.

Livingroom:iheartscotch: A Glock? Yep, a glock. I'm just not into a double action gun with no external safety.

/ I've never managed to shoot myself with my 1911.

well, thats ok, because the glock is a single-action with an external safety. educate yourself before you spout off like a farkin' idiot.

Ok, you got me; the trigger safety and the little beaver tail thing are on the outside. I'm not sure the glock would qualify as single action as that would require a hammer; and it wouldn't go off till the hammer went back.

iheartscotch:Livingroom: iheartscotch: A Glock? Yep, a glock. I'm just not into a double action gun with no external safety.

/ I've never managed to shoot myself with my 1911.

well, thats ok, because the glock is a single-action with an external safety. educate yourself before you spout off like a farkin' idiot.

Ok, you got me; the trigger safety and the little beaver tail thing are on the outside. I'm not sure the glock would qualify as single action as that would require a hammer; and it wouldn't go off till the hammer went back.

sorry, dealing with idiots tonight and i blew up on you.

technically i'm wrong too. its called "safe action" because it's neither SA/DA. also, the glock doesnt have the beavertail safety that the springfield does. the "safety" is a plastic wedge that allows the trigger to be pulled but only when your finger is on the trigger.

ultimately, upthread i read someone say that a glock isnt for amatuers. i tend to agree, my first "real gun" was a Star model BKM (9mm 1911 clone from spain) it was an excellent beginner gun, even with a magazine disconnect that prevented the gun from firing if the mag was out.

but generally i'd recommend any number of guns over the glock for a "first gun" - unless it's a woman, because women listen if you give them good instruction, where a man is all "I'VE GOT A PENIS SO I KNOW HOW TO RUN A GUN, BRO"

it's very easy to pull the trigger by reflex without meaning to,No, it's a lonnng 5-6lb pull. Something that requires deliberate action on the part of the handler. This has nothing to do with the make/model. It all rests on the user.

Relax I agree with you, I'm not blaming the gun. You can drop the insults. Whether we think the 5-6lb pull is long or not is subjective. It's certainly shorter than 10-11 lb, which again was my point when comparing it to some other guns. Which is all ultimately irrelevant because his finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been. I have little doubt that he'd have made the same mistake with a different gun, he had poor handling.

Strictly speaking it could be considered a DA because two things happen when you pull the trigger, the striker is pulled back and then released. But it doesn't allow for a second strike with a second trigger pull either, and you can't cock the striker manually like an external hammer. So yeah 'safe action' as they call it is most appropriate because calling it something else can be confusing if you're familiar with firearms but not this model in particular.

it's very easy to pull the trigger by reflex without meaning to,No, it's a lonnng 5-6lb pull. Something that requires deliberate action on the part of the handler. This has nothing to do with the make/model. It all rests on the user.

Relax I agree with you, I'm not blaming the gun. You can drop the insults. Whether we think the 5-6lb pull is long or not is subjective. It's certainly shorter than 10-11 lb, which again was my point when comparing it to some other guns. Which is all ultimately irrelevant because his finger was on the trigger when it shouldn't have been. I have little doubt that he'd have made the same mistake with a different gun, he had poor handling.

Strictly speaking it could be considered a DA because two things happen when you pull the trigger, the striker is pulled back and then released. But it doesn't allow for a second strike with a second trigger pull either, and you can't cock the striker manually like an external hammer. So yeah 'safe action' as they call it is most appropriate because calling it something else can be confusing if you're familiar with firearms but not this model in particular.

to be fair, i replace my stock disconnectors with 3.5lb bars, because i like rapid snappy followup shots. i think the initial pull is still 5lb, but with a 3.5 you can bumpfire-tripletap and have a sub-.5" pattern at 7yds.

Livingroom:to be fair, i replace my stock disconnectors with 3.5lb bars, because i like rapid snappy followup shots. i think the initial pull is still 5lb, but with a 3.5 you can bumpfire-tripletap and have a sub-.5" pattern at 7yds.

That's an important point actually, different users will adjust the trigger pull to their liking, so you can make it quite light, or very heavy like the NYPD does.

demaL-demaL-yeH:OnlyM3: Really? So your "Glock, yes it's a glock" then saying you never shot yourself w/ a 1911 didn't mean what it says?

This accident had nothing to do w/ make/model and everything to do with the idiot not following the very simple rule of not pointing it at people