Sometmes it is much easier to assist golas when you counter attack and much more difficult when the opposition defends with many bodies in the box. Chelsea outscored City last season without committing many players in attack.

To be fair no one is Messi or Ronaldo tier (hell Ronaldo isn't even Messi tier).

Saying KDB just mastered the basics is either grossly underrating him or saying virtually no one in world football has mastered the basics. He's simply an amazing player and him playing for a tea I loathe makes that annoying, but not any less true.

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I don't mean it as a slight though, it seems to be lost in translation. Iget that term from Andre Ward the boxer who attributes his very high level of talent as nothing more than mastering the basics, being the best at the essentials. Masters are rare by definition.

You are talking nonsense CM. And you are trying to defend it by suggesting agenda.

This is not Pogba vs KDB as players, it's just about their passing. Pogba has wonderful qualities which can make him the best in the world in 2-3 years. His passing range might tbe better. But overall he isn't quite there yet, IMO.

I dislike tribalism, especially after Brexit, and I'm not going to say stupid things about opposition players and managers just because they are at City or Liverpool.

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OK, if you are just talking about passing than fine, even so, there are other players close to him Maybe not at crossing. I'll give you that.

I am stunned that you imply you are a United fan though given that every post I see you make seems to be in awe of Pep or City. I wasn't hinting at an agenda. I was genuinely curious as to where your allegiances lie. I actually thought you were one of these Dutch posters living vicariously through Pep and 'total football'.

I don't mean it as a slight though, it seems to be lost in translation. Iget that term from Andre Ward the boxer who attributes his very high level of talent as nothing more than mastering the basics, being the best at the essentials. Masters are rare by definition.

OK, if you are just talking about passing than fine, even so, there are other players close to him Maybe not at crossing. I'll give you that.

I am stunned that you imply you are a United fan though given that every post I see you make seems to be in awe of Pep or City. I wasn't hinting at an agenda. I was genuinely curious as to where your allegiances lie. I actually thought you were one of these Dutch posters living vicariously through Pep and 'total football'.

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Actually, I used to dislike Guardiola when Fergie was still here and I was rooting for Chelsea in 2009 and Inter in 2010 in their games vs Barca. Because I perceived Barca as our main rivals in Europe. I didn't like Jose either but was happy when he beat Barca with Inter. But I came to appreciate Guardiola as a manager later, especially after the Wembley final in 2011 because they played stunning football. They did it before too but I was unwilling to recognise it even though I've always liked Cruyff. I can't say now that Guardiola is a fraud. It seems to me completely false or tribal to do so. He's obviously a top manager. My own opinion was perfectly expressed by Cantona. He said that Jose is very clever and one of the best around but he would prefer a more attacking type of football. I imagine that if Cantona were on here he would "defend" Guardiola against silly views that he is a total fraud or something. That said I've warmed towards Jose. Unlike many of his defenders on here who dislike his personality and support him only because he happens to manage United, I find him quite charismatic. And very clever too even though I struggled to understand his thinking behind signing so many big players and finding a role for Fellaini.

Don't forget that De Bruyne is playing with Silva, Jesus, Aguero, Sane and Sterling. The whole team is functioning better in a attacking sense wheareas Pogba is playing with Lingard, Rashford and Lukaku. There's a big difference there.

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Don't forget that De Bruyne single handedly carried two average Bundesliga Teams where he had like 30 goals in 50 assists in roundabout 100 games. This guy is class!

De Bruyne without a doubt tbh and that isn't shitting on Pogba, just saying at this particular attribute.. KDB is up there with the likes of Iniesta and Pogba comes nowhere near on that front.

Pogba is an audacious passer, arguably has greater range (bit like Stevie G who had it in him to pull off absolute worldies) but very inconsistent.. one comes off after 3 or 4 attempts whereas KDB is very accurate and a master of putting the right weight, spin etc.

When it comes to crossing KDB wins it hands down. He is the best crosser of the ball I have seen since Beckham. Precision personified. His final passes are bang on too.
However, when it comes to running the game from deep, passing range, dribbling - Pogba is better.

Both can easily co-exist in the same team. What a team that would be though!

I don't mean it as a slight though, it seems to be lost in translation. Iget that term from Andre Ward the boxer who attributes his very high level of talent as nothing more than mastering the basics, being the best at the essentials. Masters are rare by definition.

OK, if you are just talking about passing than fine, even so, there are other players close to him Maybe not at crossing. I'll give you that.

I am stunned that you imply you are a United fan though given that every post I see you make seems to be in awe of Pep or City. I wasn't hinting at an agenda. I was genuinely curious as to where your allegiances lie. I actually thought you were one of these Dutch posters living vicariously through Pep and 'total football'.

But even if it were true, still many midfielders in "the best league in the world" have mastered the basics. And are nowhere near KDB.

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I think it's more like the Bruce Lee quote "I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times". Although to say that De Bruyne does just simple things is oversimplifying his game.

Pogba has other qualities which KDB doesn't and may well become a better player eventually. Passing and decision making is where KDB excells though and it is hard to beat them in these regards.

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The problem with this list is that the likes of Giggs and Bergkamp played hundreds of games while past their peak; De Bruyne, apart from a few games for Chelsea, only performed at his peak level — and his assists per minute stats will struggle if he stays here for 10+ years. Not to say that he isn't amazing, as he, of course, is.

De Bruyne is undoubtedly excellent but I genuinely believe that Pogba will overshadow him within 12 months. You can see the improvement in his game over the last 6 months or so and, under Jose, I think he can become the complete midfielder.

I think it's more like the Bruce Lee quote "I fear not the man who has practiced 10000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10000 times". Although to say that De Bruyne does just simple things is oversimplifying his game.

The comparison is unfair because Pogba has missed many games this season and KDB has played almost all of them. Pep's team play 100 million passes every match, whereas Jose likes to split defenses on a counter. The difference in the style of play is significantly the difference in these 2 players. If the roles were reversed, i think Pogba and KDB would find it difficult. My judgment, both fantastic in there own ways.

Could someone explain what does range of passes really mean, and how many types off passes are there?

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I *think* people are on about 'hollywood' type balls passed from deep likes a quarterback would in the American Football,

so KDB best range is (imo)

short to medium forward passes between the defending lines
crosses from wide
dinks over the top

wheras some people on the thread believe Pogba's best passing range is from deep, medium to long for the widemen and forwards to run onto or into their body / feet, (I'm not sure what Pogba's best passing range is as I don't watch him too much)
short dinks from the outside of the foot to players running into space

I don't doubt Pogba's ability to pull off the kind of passes De Bruyne has shown. I think he doesn't have as much of an opportunity to do so as he has more defensive responsibility in a Mourinho side looking to counter instead of dominate. But based on the evidence of this season alone you have to give it to De Bruyne. His ability to pass on the break or at a standstill is top notch.

I don't think De Bruyne has displayed anything Beckham didn't do in our treble winning season. Posts putting the latter over the former are out of pocket.

It’s difficult to make a case against De Bruyne at this moment in time, he’s just crazy efficient and the ‘mastered the basics’ stuff undermines that quality as well as his vision. You can use the caveat that he’s surrounded by better players and benefits from the system Pep employs, but in terms of passing range and areas of the pitch - he’s literally starting moves off from CB at times.

Pogba has a wider range in his technique and potentially more strings to his bow as a player. He’s also a better fit for this United team.

They're both really good passers, albeit with different styles - so it's like comparing someone like Casemiro wih Kanté. Pogba is akin to Falcão with his ability to not just pass well but dribble and shoot and go offensive box-to-box as a fairly complete central midfielder. Very Brazilian is spirit even though he's compared with Vieira - more of a risk-taker, and a lot of what he tries doesn't come off - but when it does the effect is spectacular because most players wouldn't even try something like that, regardless of them possessing the technique on the first place. Whereas De Bruyne is in the mold of someone like Günter Netzer at Mönchengladbach given the speed with which he triangulates the field ahead of him, guile and preciseness in terms of short passing and final balls - though without evidencing the crisp depth of space long range passing of the German, especially on cross-field diagonals - which probably makes the comparison an imperfect one. De Bruyne is a more effective player and fundamentally sound passer right now - cold-blooded on the edge of the final third, always scheming, and incisive like a surgical knife. He was really good at Wolfsburg too, but Guardiola has managed to fine-tune his game - elevating him to a higher level, and the Belgium operates like clockwork alongside Silva these days - seemingly making 9 good decision with every 10 touches of the ball - Cruyff would be a big fan of him. Pogba is younger, more of a flamboyant free-style player a times who's still a bit inconsistent in terms of his decision-making, so he wastes a lot of balls and time and potential space - but he has the talent to kick into a higher gear as he matures out of his oftentimes hit-and-miss style or if he works under an expert midfield coach. He might never reach the level of consistency of De Bruyne in the final third, the consummate rhythmic passing ability of Kroos, etc. but he has a lot more to his game as well.