CHENNAI: It was like being in a time warp, as history in stone was bought alive at the two-day national seminar on Pallava Temples with Nayaka Additions in the Chennai Region - A Historical Survey by the Department of Ancient History and Archaeology, at the University of Madras on Tuesday.

Ever imagined a temple for Shiva in Quanzhou, China? The paper presented by Dr T Ganesan shares this intresting insight, In 720 AD, Chinese King Kai Yuan requested Pallava king Narasimha II to station a Pallava army at Tibet as a goodwill army and this continuous goodwill resulted in the Shiva temple.

Another paper, by Dr S Kuppusamy, dealt with how Pallava temples have contritbuted to the development of Tamil society. The history of dance forms and paintings in Pallava period was the other stimulating reading.

Pallavas were the pioneers in introducing stone as the medium for the errection of temples of their faith and choices. This trend was continued by the Chola, Pandya, Vijayanagara dynasties, who created grandeur temple complexes.

Dr J Soundararajan, seminar dirctor, said, “The Pallava monuments present a strange spectrum with original monuments dating back to the 7-8 century and later additions of the 16- 18 century. In this seminar through paper presentations, academically we have made efforts to specify which part of the temple belongs to which historical saga and thereby highlighting the contributions of the Nayakas to temple archietecture and sculptural art.”

Dr R Christodas Gandhi, Managing Director Development Commissioner, TamilNadu Energy Development Agency, said, “ Translate and publish all the stone tablets, inscriptions so that the public know the real history of the people.”

I agree. In the language diagram, can anyone point out where the Sangam period falls? Because Tamil literature dates back to this period, which is agreed as at least 2000 years. The literature for this entire period is called as tamil literature only. So, is this so called proto-tamil even older, or should we call Sangam literature itself as proto-tamil literature?

I think Proto-Tamil can be dated to around < 300 BC, after which the first Old Tamil inscriptions appear (around 250 BCE) in a modified form of Southern Brahmi script.

All the other linguistic reconstructions like Proto-Tamil-Kannada are well before the literary period. Proto-Tamil-Kannada is supposed to have branched into Proto-Tamil-xyz and Proto-Kannada around 2000 BCE.

__________________“ The human lust for power and esteem, coupled with its vulnerability to self-deception and self-righteousness, makes that an invitation to a calamity, all the worse when the power is directed at a goal as quixotic as eradicating human self-interest.”

“The foundation of individual rights is the assumption that people have wants and needs and are authorities on what those wants and needs are. If people's stated desires were just some kind of erasable inscription or reprogrammable brainwashing, any atrocity could be justified.”

That Chennai's outskirts are an archeological goldmine has been demonstrated once again after a team of young archeologists recently unearthed rare objects dating between the early Christian era and the later Pallava period. The site is located at Arpakkam village, some 85 kms south of Chennai, in Kancheepuram.

A 13-member that included ten final year post graduate students from the Department of Ancient History and Archeology of the University of Madras unearthed these finds in a month-long dig. The team chose Arpakkam as it is mentioned in ancient literature, team members said. Inscriptions on the walls of three ancient temples indicated the historicity of the site. "Besides, Arpakkam lies on the fringe of a mound where we had found remains of megalith burials," said assistant technical officer of the department, N Ranganathan, who is also a draughtsman.

The finds include a rare granite statue of the jyeshta' (elder in Sanskrit) sister of the goddess of wealth accompanied by two children, one on each side. The statue featuring a buffalo head band is typical of the early Pallava period, said Professor M Seran, technical officer of the department. The statue was found abandoned near a thorn bush. Seran hypothesized that the elder sister of a goddess was probably considered inauspicious and, therefore, the jyeshta statue merited less attention. Seran, acoompanied by two faculty members, led the team.

The excavation is an annual programme conducted by the department to expose students to practical knowledge and the challenges they will encounter on the field. So far, the department has conducted 17 such exercises since the programme was initiated in 1963.

While the programme was funded by a Rs 70,000 university grant, Arpakkam vilagers did their bit by arranging accommodation and food for the team.

After identifying the site, a trench was laid and instructions given to students on how to do the excavation. The students were able to identify more than 50 rare objects, both small and big, including beads, bangles, seals, and ornaments made up of semi-precious stones including quartz. The stones were used by the affluent classes of the Pallava kingdom and the early Christian era.

Other interesting finds include a floor polishing stone and black and red ware sherds. The pottery sherds feature a unique design of shoulders with engravings of loops and leaves. The hind limb of a terracota elephant, a broken vessel stand, a hopscotch marker - used by children to play games - also stood out among the finds.

But, perhaps, the most striking find for the archaeologists was the foundation layer laid for a small room. The room was divided into two. The layer was made of river sand. This style can be found in Tanjore big temple, Seran said. But the building techniques used in Tanjore were far advanced, he noted.

Whether they became part of the South Indian Railway or not, the small ‘private’ railway lines in the South appear to be a part of the memory of many a reader as separate service providers and they continue to update me on this.

‘Reader T.A.D Sami’ writes that there was a line that was owned by the Tanjore District Board from Vedaranyam to Point Calimere and it was also taken over by the SIR. The compensation the Board received, he adds, was used for charities. A Chatram Development Board with full fledged officers — a Chatram Tahsildar, Chatram Revenue Inspector etc. — was set up. The Chatrams at Tanjore and Rajamadan were maintained by the Board for many years.

Reader A. Sitaraman reminds me of the light railway whose route was Kayalpattinam-Tiruchendur-Kulasekarapatnam. Parry & Co. owned this line, which was a great service to the coastal villages. Before World War II, Parry’s wanted to close the line. Neither did the Tinnevely District Board want to buy it nor were banks willing to help persons interested in buying it and running the service. Ultimately, the line was closed and dismantled.

Following the trail of what was known as the Kulasekarapatnam Light Railway (KLR), I discovered that Parry’s had, at one time, wanted to buy the lines of the Tanjore District Board. Parry’s KLR, on the other hand, was little more than a tramline established to carry jaggery to the company’s factory in Kulasekarapatnam which had been set up in the early 1900s. The SIR persuaded Parry’s to extend the line northwards to Tiruchendur, and the service operated from 1915 to 1940, even after the factory had closed in 1926.

In 1940, Parry’s made the line a part of its war effort, digging up the track and gifting the steel to the Government. But whether the line went still further north from Tiruchendur to Kayalpattinam, I have not been able to verify.

Tamilnadu history started from the submerged lemuria continent with Thenmadurai as capital.This region was called pandaya nadu(old country) or pandyan nadu.We lost of lot tamil literature works when the entire land was destroyed during Tsunami.This was the period of Sangam period I.

Then Kapadapuram was made capital.The original name of kapadapuram must be a different one because word 'puram' is not very native of authentic tamil.During the same period chola kingdom was there in the north with Arikkamedu as capital.Again Arikkamedu is an archeological site near present cuddalore..The original old name is not known.This was the sangam period II.

Then after the second Tsunami Arikkamedu and Kapadapuram went inside sea and the present madurai was made as captial for pandyan kingdom and puhar was made as capital for cholas.This was the sangam period III.

Known history of India starts from 600BC with mauriya dynasty in north and chera ,chola ,pandya kngdoms in the south.Before 550BC there was no religion in tamilnadu or existed in tamil literature.They must have worshiped a goddess called Anangu.After the birth of buddism and jainism during 550BC in north it was spread by north kings like Ashoka around 300 BC.

Buddhism was spread by language pali and Jainism was spread by prakrut.Both the religion was somewhat similar and rebirth concepts were introduced.Buddhism was fast accepted by many kings and country like china,ceylon,etc.Jainism was accepted by pandyan kings.We can see the impact of both religions in laterpart of pathinenmelkanakku and pathinenkilkanaku works.Kacci (Kanchipuram) was the main center for developing the the religions and Madurai was the main center for developing language.Sanskrit and Hinduism was spread later.The kings in kanchipuram followed all the three languages Prakrut,Tamil and sanskrit.Anyway Pali did not have much impact on tamilnadu or tamil language.Hinduism was split in different form based on gods tirumal(vishnu),murugan and sivan.Many old tamil literature during this period had kadavul vaalthu.Jain god was called Arugan.

So during 300BC-1AD major cities were
Korkai(near tuticorin) -port city of pandian
Nagapatinam(original name was different)-port city of chola
Kacci(kanchipuram)-important cultural center
Madurai-capital city of pandyan
Karuvur-capital city of chera
Thagadur-capital city of thondai nadu
puhar-port city of chola
Urayur-capital city of chola
Kottar(near nagercoil)-A big town in pandya nadu.

After 100 AD Tamil kingdom lost their fame and kachipuram based kingdoms dominated and the religions Jainism and Hinduism was spread in fast manner and there was a huge impact on tamil language also.Madurai which was a stronghold of Buddhism was converted to Jainism..Lot of prakrut and sanskrit words were mixed with tamil language.You can see lot of jain caves in and around madurai now also.The major cities in 100AD were
Nagapatinam(different name may be cholamandalam which was called coramandel afterwards)
Kaccivaram
Korkai
Puhar
madurai
urayur
karuvur
kottar.
I'll post the relevant map indicating these cities.

During 300AD-400AD Third Tsunami hit tamilnadu and city of puhar went inside sea.This is confirmed by chilapathikaram.May be korakai also destroyed.

Since tamil language started destroying a dravida sangam was established in 450-470AD in Madurai .All the pathinenkilkanku works were consolidated.

After 550AD MAdurai was recaptured by pandyan and pallavas established in Kanchipuram.Now the names of kings shows the impact of prakrut and sanskrit.like kulasekara,arikesi, etc.(Original names were in authentic tamil like cheliyan,nediyon etc.)Sri and siri are different,'Sri' is sanskirt. 'Siri 'may be prakrut or pali.Because srilanka which is a Buddhist country call it sirilanka.
During time kachipuram and chola kingdom converted to hindusm.During 7th century Chola kings built lot of Temples around their capital palayarai(near kumbakonam).During that time pandyas were still with jainism.We know one hindu saint (sampanthar)who changed a pandyan king from jain to hindu.

After 848AD THanjavur was made as capital of chola and the modern era started.

Warrior tribe of Kosars have been cited in ancient Tamil Sangam literatures. Kosars are described as a honest warrior tribe who were known as ‘one word kosars’(“Onrumoli Kosar” in Tamil) because they always kept their words (promises).
Many of these refer to Kosar heroes of ancient Tulunadu, whereas others suggest that they were nomadic tribes that lived in different parts of south India, for example Nalkur Kosars who lived in four different villages or divergent places. Wayfarer in his blog has made a decent documentation of distribution of known Khosa tribes. The ancient tribe were variously known as Khosa or Kosar, Kossar or Khasa.

Sangam literature

In Tamil literature, Kosars were mentioned as west Vadukas with their origin as Kolhapur near Goa. ‘Erattar’ were supposedly a branch of Kosars who became Maha Rattirar (Prakrit) or Maharashtras (Sanskrit).

Kongu army consisted of Kosars according to Silappadikkaram. The Akananooru (15, 2-7 )records: “Thokai Kavin Thulu nattu anna Varunkai Vampalaith Thankum panpin Cherintha Seri Chemmal Moothur”. Meaning, they then captured Kudaku Nadu and Erumai Nadu and settled in Tulu Nadu with Moothur as their capital. Krishnasami Aiyangar opines that the ‘Nalur Kosar ‘(meaning Kosars who settled in four places) as foreigners to the Tamil country.

In some Tamil accounts, Kosars belonged to the Tulu country and lived to the south of the Vindhya and near the shores of western Arabian Sea. They were also referred to as ‘Ariyar’ in Tamil literature.

Kosars have been recorded as tribal people who lived near the rivers Malprabha, Gatprabha and upper the border area between Kadamba and Mauryan empire. They attacked Paazhi and captured the whole of Kadamba and its many fort cities. Then the Mauryans and their Kosar affliates entered Tamil Nadu through the kaviri-kudhirai malai pass (the present anthiyur-nallur path).

The Boar (Varaha?) was the emblem of Kosar tribes and the later Chalukyas of the Pallava time. Varaha was also the logo of the Vijayanagar empire.

Kosars were called Nar kosar or Nanmozhi Kosar in the third Sangam literature. Nannul or Tholkappiam notes them as Kannadam, Vaduku (Tulu), Kalingam (Oriya) and Telugu people. Kambaramayanam Payiram says Kosars were Vadakalai (Prakrit), Thenkalai (Tamil), Vaduku and Kannada people. Kosars were truthful to their kings, either Tamil kings or Mauryan kings and were called ‘Vai-mozhi Kosar’ (truthful in keeping their words).
The Mathurai Kanchi 508-09 & 771-74 records them as “Poyya Nallisai Niruththa punaithar, Perum peyar Maaran Thalaivan Aka, Kadanthadu vai val Elampal Kosar, Eyaneri Marabin Vai mozhi ketpa” and “Pazhayan Mokoor Avayakam vilanka Nanmozhi Kosar Thontri yanna”. Meaning, Chera dynasty’s Nedunchezhian’s army head was ‘Mohoor Pazhayan Maaran’ and in his army, Kosars were present. They followed Maran’s words in battle and were honoured for their job in his court. ‘Elampal Kosar’ (young Kosars) were present in the armies of the Cheras.
The District Gazetteer of South Kanara (1973) enlists Koosa as a Scheduled Caste tribe. This Koosa tribe is being speculated by tulu-research.blogspot.com as the Kosar tribes of Karavali described in the Tamil Sangam literature.
Koosa, Kusha

The Twin sons of Rama (in Ramayan, composed by Valmiki ca 500 BC) were named Lava and ‘Kusha’.This shows the antiquity of the proper name Kusha in India. ‘Koosa’ tribes still exist in northern parts of Udupi districts. Kosanna, Koosakka etc are common names among Tulu people in the yesteryears.

‘Kosala’ an ancient Kingdom of Ramayan fame has been suggested as land of Kosa by Joseph Thangarajah Xavier. Rama’s mother ‘Kausalya’ hailed from the kingdom of Kosala.

KumariKandam is part of Tamil literature (and history??). It is a blend of various degrees of myths, legends, (reality?). I want folks to post serious evidence based discussion - literature (pref. proper quotes), any archeaological evidence of any landmass below Kanyakumari..

Please refrain from pure opinionated ideas, as my desire is to make this thread a one stop place about KumariKandam. (Disclaimer: I am not saying if this was real or legendary.. )

Also referred to as Lemouria. It's hard to find any hard evidence (rocks, scripts and likes) because it's supposed to have submerged around 16000 - 18000 BC (if existed). One credible evidence that you could argue is the vague reference of the land gobbled by sea from the texts of Silapathigaram. The texts however doesn't name the land as Kumari Kandam however few researchers claim that the territory mentioned was Kumari Kandam.

And whether you like it or not this discussion will invariably lead to AIT and divert from there Till few years back Iravadham Mahadevan used to be active in few social groups and was available to answer queries over email. I don't think that he reponds to mails anymore. If you need expert opinion that doesn't lead to unwanted debates try commenting on his facebook page and see if he responds. (and yeah post it here for our knowledge too...)

__________________To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize - Voltaire

Also referred to as Lemouria. It's hard to find any hard evidence (rocks, scripts and likes) because it's supposed to have submerged around 16000 - 18000 BC (if existed). One credible evidence that you could argue is the vague reference of the land gobbled by sea from the texts of Silapathigaram. The texts however doesn't name the land as Kumari Kandam however few researchers claim that the territory mentioned was Kumari Kandam.

And whether you like it or not this discussion will invariably lead to AIT and divert from there Till few years back Iravadham Mahadevan used to be active in few social groups and was available to answer queries over email. I don't think that he reponds to mails anymore. If you need expert opinion that doesn't lead to unwanted debates try commenting on his facebook page and see if he responds. (and yeah post it here for our knowledge too...)

Does it not appears in Tholkappiyam too which is the oldest text for TN?

__________________
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We are all aware that the origin of the Tamil people and their culture is shrouded in deep mystery. Though there are many traditions narrated in early literature, “Kumari Kandam”, the land that lay to the south of India and, which later submerged in the Indian Ocean, has been a matter of conjecture for a study by scholars.

Two American eminent geologists McKenzie and Sclater have clearly explained that Africa and South America were locked together as part of the primitive continent until about 200 million years ago.

The present formations of India, Arabia, Africa, Antarctica, South America and Australia started breaking up due to natural upheavals and moving to different parts of the earth at the rate of 15,000 years per mile on an average and found their places in the Asian Continent. The movement of the earth mass, called Navalam Theevu in Tamil, caused the formation of the present continent of India.

There was a general belief that both Lemuria and Kumari Kandam were one and the same. However, it has been established by Frank Joseph, Secretary for Ancient American Association, in his book “The Lost Civilization of Lemuria”, the existence of a land called Lemuria, one of the world's oldest civilizations, about 2.5 lakh years ago, in Indonesia. Hence, Lemuria and Kumari Kandam, which existed in southern part of India, are different lands.

Mr. Joseph has also established that the Mohenjodaro letters of Eastern Islands are nearly 1,00,000 years old. He has critically examined the views of various scholars and established the source of Mohenjodaro letters as well as the ancient civilization of Moo and has written that due to natural calamities, the island of Moo was destroyed about 2.5 lakh years ago.

Eastern Island, 1,000 miles near Japan, has a script called Rongo Rongo and it is identical with Mohenjodaro letters. This has been fixed as 1,00,000 years old.

From the Island of Moo called Lemuria, which was located near Indonesia about 2.5 lakhs years ago, people regularly moved out to Atlantis in Mexican Sea and Kumari Kandam in South Tamil Nadu, about 1,00,000 years ago due to tsunami. These letters are the script of Moo civilization, which was well developed.

From Atlantis, due to tsunami, the Moo people moved to South America and became Aztecs and Incas. Those who moved to North America became Mexicans and Red Indians.

From Kumari Kandam, South of Tamil Nadu, about 15,000 years ago people moved to Africa and became Sumerians and those who moved from Africa to Arabia later became Jews.

From Kumari Kandam, South of Tamil Nadu due to tsunami, people moved to Bengal and became Cholas and those who moved to Sind and Punjab became Cheras.

In Sillapathikaram, it was mentioned that one “Ezhuthanga Nadu” (7x7 =49 countries) existed. So, Southern Tamil Nadu and Kumari Kandam are different regions. Those who have moved to Southern Tamil Nadu were called Pandiyas and they spread over Ceylon and Tirunelvelli.

Tamil literatures say that during the Kurukshethra war, Chera Kings had given food to both the armies. From all these we come to a conclusion that the Ancient South India would have been with tall cliffs, dense forests with high fertility.

Because of a calamity, which took place in 9,000 BC, a terrific destruction occurred and destroyed Chera, Chola and Pandiya Kingdoms and they all then came and settled in South India. The great scholar Sri Avvai Duraisamy Pillai has established that the “Pancha Dravidam” is the region consisting Gujarath, Maharashtra, Andhra, Kerala, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu.

This is the time to write the correct history of Tamil Nadu. In “Irayanar Agapporul” (Nakkeerar Urai) it is mentioned that 72 Pandiya Kings had ruled Tamil Nadu (which was inclusive of the destroyed Kumari Kandam) from 30,000 B.C. to 16,000 B.C. (i.e. for 14,000 years).

Our universities have to undertake the responsibility to arrive at the correct history of Tamil Nadu.

Research has not been done so far to assess correctly the shape and appearance of Tamil letters. Today in Tamil, three ‘La', two ‘Ra' and three ‘Na' exist. These exist in ‘Grantha' also. But in ‘Naagari', which got birth in 500 A.C., there are only one ‘La', one ‘Ra', and two ‘Na'.

M. Sundarraj, retired Financial Controller of Integral Coach Factory, who did extensive research on Rig Vedas, has written a book titled “Rig Vedic Studies”. He has explained that our Rig Vedic Mythology is the ancient one in the world. The Rig Vedic Myths are symbolic expressions of astronomical phenomena, both of lunar asterisms and solar movements.

The Rig Veda calendar was essentially a luni-solar one, the lunar aspects being considered as important for holy purposes, but the solar movements which determined the seasons, were also of importance to Rig Vedic people.

The Rig Veda has already adopted a system of grouping together the stars in the lunar zodiac in the pictorial form, such as that of a bull, scorpion, eagle etc.

The origin of the concept of constellational groupings in pictorial forms can be traced in Rig Veda.

According to N.P.Ramadurai, an astronomy researcher, the cycle of time referring to 24,320 human years is mentioned in the Rig Veda at about 50 places. But to read Rig Veda, ‘Grantha' is essential.

Also to read and grasp clearly our ‘Sangam literature' ‘Grantha' knowledge is necessary. If we thoughtfully and magnanimously accept that our old Tamil letters are ‘Grantha' letters, it will pave the way to realise our ancient civilization.

Also, to read philosophy, art, sculpture, medicine etc., ‘Grantha' will be useful. It is necessary at this stage to do intensive research on the Mohenjodaro letters and our ancient languages, Sanskrit and Tamil, and, other Indian languages, to ascertain as to how the script changed over a time and new languages evolved.

In India, Tamil and Sankrit are the oldest languages and both are origin of other languages. This fact is proved by Vedas and our Tamil Sangam Literature. Great Saint Arunagiri Nadhar says in his Thirupugazh that Tamil has 51 ‘Atcharams'. Similarly, the total number of ‘Grantha' letters is 51.

To get back the history of more than three lakh years in the past, Saptharishi calendar only will be able to provide proper and genuine assistance.

We have been able to fix the dates of history from 25th Chathur Yuga to 28th Chathur Yuga. Saptharishi Mandala has played an important role in almost all the ancient civilization of the world. It is the pivotal point of all astronomical calculations and observations.

N.P.Ramadurai, with my assistance, has found and established that the Saptha Rishi Mandala takes only 2,187 years to make one complete circle through all the 27 asterisms.

He was able to establish that Chathur Yuga comprises only 12,160 years.

I conclude with a request to all the great Tamil scholars, eminent astronomers and mathematical experts to join together in this noble research to establish the glory of Tamil language and Tamil race to the whole world.

KumariKandam is part of Tamil literature (and history??). It is a blend of various degrees of myths, legends, (reality?). I want folks to post serious evidence based discussion - literature (pref. proper quotes), any archeaological evidence of any landmass below Kanyakumari..

Please refrain from pure opinionated ideas, as my desire is to make this thread a one stop place about KumariKandam. (Disclaimer: I am not saying if this was real or legendary.. )

Should we go with a separate thread in history folder like Vedic Civilization thread?

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