Zimmerman: I Love the Smell of Napalm in the Morning

The you-know-what hit the proverbial fan today in the George Zimmerman case.

The prosecution released W9’s damning account of being raped and molested by George Zimmerman over a 10 year period that began when she was 6 years old. W9 is his cousin. She is two years younger than him. The rapes she endured involved digital penetration of her vagina and the molestations involved fondling.

She submitted out of fear. She feared him physically and she feared her family would not believe her because he was so good at charming everyone. She finally mustered up the courage to terminate the abuse by running away from him and leaving the house. She told her parents, who told his parents, but nothing happened except he stopped attending joint family get-togethers. Her parents discouraged her from reporting the crimes to the police and she did not do so until he was in custody after he shot and killed Trayvon Martin. When asked by police investigators why she waited until then to report the crimes, she said she finally felt safe to do so.

I listened to her account and I thought it was very credible. Don’t kid yourselves, child victims of sex abuse rarely report the abuse because they are afraid they will not be believed and afraid of reprisals. This lady has a lot of guts and courage to come forward with these allegations knowing as she must have known that the information might become public.

Question: What impact will this have on selecting a jury in the murder case?

Answer: It will definitely complicate seating a fair and impartial jury, but the State of Florida was able to do that in the Casey Anthony case and I have no doubt they will be able to do so in the Zimmerman case.

We are immersed in this case, but many people are barely following it, if at all. The court will deal with the pretrial publicity issue by moving the trial to another county or importing a jury from another county, which is what happened in the Casey Anthony case. By questioning prospective jurors individually (i.e., out of the presence of other prospective jurors), the judge and the lawyers will be able to find out how much each juror knows about the case and whether a juror has formed an opinion about GZ’s guilt or innocence.

This precaution has worked in the past and it will work again.

Question: Is the evidence admissible at trial?

Answer: Not unless the defense opens the door by introducing evidence that GZ is a person of good character. If the defense opens the door, you will be able to hear a garbage truck backing up to the courtroom door with a load of bad character evidence to be provided in damning detail by W9 and anyone else they can find between now and the trial. According to W9, btw, there is another victim, but she is reluctant to come forward. Who knows, she might change her mind. For example, think of the recently concluded Sandusky case.

The rule in question is Rule 404(b) which prohibits the admissibility of uncharged misconduct unless it is probative of the defendant’s intent, knowledge, motive or opportunity, common scheme or plan, consciousness of guilt or absence of mistake or accident.

The evidence is inadmissible since it does not fall into any of these exceptions, unless the defense opens the door by introducing evidence of good character.

Like I said, Katie bar the door, if that happens.

While we are on the subject of uncharged misconduct evidence, let us not forget Shellie Zimmerman’s perjury and GZ’s role in putting her up to it and assisting her to conceal the Peter Pan account and lie about it in court (i.e., the internet donation account).

As Judge Lester said in his recent order setting bail, it would not have been unreasonable for the Court to have concluded that, but for the GPS bracelet, the defendant would have used his second passport to flee the country with $130,000 of other people’s money after he bailed out the first time.

If that was his intent, evidence of his role would be admissible under rule 404(b) as consciousness of guilt, for the same reason that evidence of flight to avoid prosecution is admissible to show consciousness of guilt.

I have written about this possibility before and, as I stated then, the prosecution probably will need Shellie Zimmerman’s cooperation and testimony against GZ to make that case.

Will W9’s statement be the straw that breaks Shellie Zimmerman’s back and sends her knock knock knockin’ on the door to the prosecutor’s office?

Who knows, she might even throw in an admission that GZ did not kill TM in self-defense.

Stay tuned.

Question:What about W9’s statements about racism in the Zimmerman family. Are they admissible?

Answer: No. W9’s testimony about family racism is not admissible because it’s not specific to GZ. She did not mention any specific instances where he expressed racist beliefs or epithets. and even if he had done so, it still would likely be inadmissible. Otherwise, it might be admissible under rule 404(b) to show evidence of motive.

Question: Are there any other foreseeable consequences?

Answer: Yes. The most immediate and probable consequence of this revelation today, other than a dramatic world-wide increase in disgust for George Zimmerman, should be a dramatic collapse of financial support via internet contributions to his defense fund.

Should be interesting to see what his supporters come up with to defend him. Are they vile enough to mount a full-fledged attack against W9 the way Rush Limbaugh attacked Sandra Fluke?

Will Fox News reach a new low in entertainment reportage?

Question: What’s up with his lawyers?

Answer: The not-ready-for-prime-time defense team still isn’t ready. They should have filed an appeal on Friday or first thing this morning in the Court of Appeals along with a request for an emergency stay ordering the prosecution to not release the information pending the outcome of the appeal.

This inexplicable failure coming on the heels of the reckless and legally groundless motion to disqualify Judge Lester looks really bad.

Apparently, O’Mara has asked for reciprocal discovery on W9 and that is not a good move at this time because it looks so thuggish.

Why posture like that when she is unlikely to testify?

Question: Did Judge Lester really have to release W9’s statement to the media under the Sunshine Law?

Answer: I do not know, but if so, this is a perfect case to get before the State Supreme Court to carve out a privacy exception to protect victims of uncharged crimes, especially sexual crimes, from having their stories published for all the world to see when it is not likely that they will ever testify.

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135 Responses to Zimmerman: I Love the Smell of Napalm in the Morning

O’Mara refers to witness 9 as a cousin of Zimmerman’s, and says that he fought to block the release of her statements with an earlier court motion because, “The content of this statement is not relevant to the issues of this case, and it would not be admissible in the State’s case in chief.”

“That request was denied on July 13, 2012 by Judge Lester. Because there is a Motion for Disqualification pending, this morning, we asked the prosecution not to release Witness #9’s statement until there was a ruling on the Motion for Disqualification.

This is an appropriate request as, should the motion for disqualification be granted, reconsideration of recent rulings by the judge is appropriate. However, the prosecution elected to make the public disclosure anyway.”

We have all listened to Zimmerman in his prior interviews, and as he has been described by MOM, as if he has a child like mentality. I hope all of you take the time to listen to this recording of Zimmerman’s phone call to Terry Jones, and then tell me that this is man is not a manipulator and changes his talk, and words to meet his needs at the time! This recording was actually an eye opener to me, I actually did not realize how slick he was until now!

Yes, now we know what W9 & the co-worker were saying about how convincing & charming he can be. Some say you can see that in the reenactment as well. For me, the reenactment showed the ease at which he lies, but knowing he was contradicting things, I didn’t find it as striking as this call. He is asking a Pastor NOT to do something he’d publicly planned to do– How brilliant is it to introduce the idea he’d “prayed” over making the call? How brilliant is it to suggest if Pastor still would like to come to Sanford, to come pray privately with him instead (OR just stay home–which is more difficult to ask)? How brilliant is it to close the “sale” by asking for a prayer at the end of the call? He knows how to work people in whatever way is necessary to achieve his goals.

I seriously doubt this interview will be anything more than “SH” covering his rear and a softball interview style that allows Zimmerman to “explain his side of the story… finally” …because we are all just sick to death of seeing Trayvon interviewed on his side only on every major talk show (oh wait, that’s right…he can’t)…[sarcasm inserted]

I have no intention of supporting anything Fox News nor Sean Hannity says in this interview…

Professor Leatherman, A thought came to me last night, do you think that MOM could actually be making these gaffs by intent? What I am starting to wonder is he thinking that if Zimmerman is found guilty, that if he makes these novice attorney mistakes, it will give a valid reason for an apeal due to poor representation? Perhaps he is covering the bases before he gets to the ball park? Just a question that might cause a little thought about motive on the part of MOM…..

Elizabeth, remember the immortal words of Yogi Berra – “It’s not over ’til it’s over” – there will be many twists and turns before this case is resolved.

Please keep reading this blog. I, for one – and I’m sure I’m not alone in this – loved reading your posts because you brought a level of humanity to the discussion that is rare in today’s harried world.

I’d like to hear more from you. Come back when you have more thoughts to share with us. How this will be resolved is like one giant jigsaw puzzle. You may have the key piece – that one nugget of intelligent insight – that brings the whole picture into view

Professor, I do agree, Mark O’Mara came on as a humble calm man and in being that, it could be he has found himself in a position he himself does not have heart in. Never heard of him before this case except that he was thought to be very nice and likable and could be. Would co-counsel be obligated to take over? George Zimmerman is going to push it as far as he can go, this is his glory field, all the attention! If he ever has to face reality, he may try to harm himself, or pretend to do so if there is opportunity.
A liar often will do this act if they come to believe their show is coming to an unfavorable end.

Thank you Sir, for allowing me to be here for a short time. I found your blog a place I could express and ask a few things and do sincerely appreciate your hospitality along with the polite input of your commenters. Being in my early 60’s, while thought to be in my 80’s has been a bit inhibiting, because I never knew if it is was best to write as a dumb dumb or with some intelligence. As it turned out neither has worked well for me. I hope you can keep this blog of information and good report at least covering the end of this case. Sincerely!

Thank you Nef05. I do not quite understand why GZ considered it
a good move to disqualify Judge Lester.

Mark O’Mara drew a lot of favorable comment in the beginning. He seems to have fallen into a determination to fight for his client while finding himself in a dark shadow of GZ. I almost look at MOM as not getting enough sleep, and not up to par because he should place more value on his profession, if not on himself. Professor Leatherman is right in this respect. MOM may have originally thought this case would be a compliment to his abilities. However, it is not ending up what was expected. He can’t keep playing the game of not knowing while GZ, his soft spoken weasel, rubs off on him. The Cunning and manipulative personality of GZ will, imo, slit this attorneys throat, if O’Mara doesn’t please him.

Can O’mara leave now or be fired by GZ? Would he be able to take all the donations for attorney fees, leaving GZ high and dry? Other than to his wife Shellie, how influential is his father in giving direction through undetectable source or private language? GZ is so involved in calling the shots why is he not just representing himself or can he not do that in Florida? I’d love to see him try!

I find this case interesting and enjoy reading your posts on the developments as the case moves through the court system. I’m not a lawyer so your knowledge helps me to understand whats going on and I appreciate the time you put in to writing about it. I was keeping up with case on “Talkleft politics of crime” website but became frustrated with a defense lawyer point of view dominating any other points of view. You seem to welcome all comments (within reason) and I have learned alot. Thanks

In reading the blog post, the word I was thinking about was guilt. This victim expressed that she felt guilt. His abused coworker expressed that when he went to management about the taunts and verbal abuse, Zimmerman was so convincing that he almost believed he had made it up and felt guilt. DeeDee talks about being the person to be the last to talk to Trayvon feeling guilt over that….

It seems everyone feels guilt as a result of Zimmerman’s actions.. …..but, of course, him.

Zimmerman’s guilt is there but it is exhibited in a dysfunctional way mainly projection onto those who are weaker or “guilty” of wronging him in some way in his mind. I would pay to read an FBI profile on this guy!

Prof Leatherman, I had a question, but I posted it a couple of pages back and you probably didn’t see it. If you have a moment, could you address it, please? Judge Lester’s original ruling (release) on witness #9’s statement came during the hearing in which Zimmerman’s bail was revoked. The written ruling is dated June 13th. My question was this:

Is there any procedural reason that would have prevented O’Mara from filing an appeal, and requesting a stay, at that time? The motion addressed last Friday was a reconsideration motion in which O’Mara’s argument had not substantively changed. So, I can’t conceive that he would believe the ruling would differ. It just seems strange that he made this release into such an issue, and blamed the prosecution, when he had a month to file an appeal.

I’ve been quietly reading here for a while and have learned a lot. Thank you for the opportunity. I apologize if you’ve already addressed this.

It’s me again. So it appears some of the FL media picked up last pm that MOM knew about the PP $37K. No coincidence that a “w9 trying to sell story to People” is floated the am after by MOM. Trying to deflect the limelight off of him. jmco

Elizabeth,
IMO the prosecution is doing what MOM should have been doing, that is maintaining a low profile and waiting for the trial. What MOM has (like Zimmerman’s first attorney) been doing is holding a trial in the court of public opinion, in what could only be called a desperate search for money and fame. The problem he fails to understand is as he holds court in the press and blogs, at some point Zimmerman story will eventually be looked at and people will suddenly realize how it could not have happened the way he indicates it did. I am starting to believe that MOM is actually in over his head with this case! Only time will tell…..

The saddest is that unless someone comes forward to confirm and back up W#9 that he is her perverted molester, how is it going to be proven. Please, this does not mean that I do not take her being victimized by him as a truth. However, if a jury comes in with this on their mind, (not supposed to) will it be a reasonable doubt they bring in with them. We can’t know that, only believe they will be thoroughly examined and trustworthy.

KA, I completely understand your comment and have admiration and acceptance of her position. I should have gone into that also. I try very hard to view as many ways as possible, what goes on and most certainly want any victim to have their justice at any time in their life it is most beneficial or they are led to. Early or late! Aggressors should be exposed, and W#9 has contributed to the safety of many possible future victims he may seek to do harm. If he gets 25 years, he will still have his opportunities when he gets out. Her coming forward can put the mark on him for that time and for which I do truly admire her.

I do not think the point of the confession to the State’s Attorney was to get her own “justice”. I suspect it was some guilt she did not so what she could have to take an abusive person out of the general population (at least not with access to kids), who she felt additionally had racist views, and save this boy’s life.

I am speculating here, but I listened to her first call to the police department and she was terrified to call and even talk and would not give any information about herself and hung up. She asked the police to find out any information about him from other people. She wanted to alert them that he was dangerous, but not take personal stake as it was still family. This was someone who had been personally hurt and needed someone to know WHO GZ was as a person.

I think the waiting of 3 weeks (he was not arrested yet then) and calling of a State attorney to talk was her agony over some potential guilt she may have and resolving the “loyalty” she felt to her family over this and the greater good given.

She decided to tell her story to the prosecutors, not to get GZ in “more trouble” (because she could have pressed charges for teen abuse), but to let them know who he was to potentially save another life.

I do not think it was seeking “justice” for her at all.

In a benign way, imagine having an argument with a neighbor that was heated. It was prompted by them, they were drunk, unreasonable, and the language abusive in nature that escalated quickly. You decided to “let it go” to be peaceful neighbors and not call the police as you were able to “control” it.

Then you find out a month later they went out of control drinking and were suspected to seriously hurt or kill a child. You would probably forget that “peaceful neighbor” reason and call the police to tell them what you knew. You might even feel guilt that you did not call the authorities that evening.

You would not be trying to get justice for your own hurt feelings, but wanting to assist in what is right so no one else is hurt.

I think that is where she is…(of course, just speculation based on the story/calls)

She did not “chose” the time. She called (probably out of guilt that she did not do anything sooner and a boy was dead) a few days after the killing. The discovery was released on a court schedule (probably with her not even understanding it would be), not of a vendetta.

Can you imagine the guilt she had as she “knew” the kind of person that GZ was and then agreed to keep it “in the family”? Maybe she feels like she could have told someone sooner or agreed to involve law enforcement then he would not be at that place, at that time?

The public questioning of the motives of the abused is not only inaccurate, it is appalling.

Sir Leatherman, I am very concerned that you feel O’Mara is damaging your profession. Did he just make up and initiate a lie
that #9 had tried to sell her story to People Magazine, or was there another source involved and he chose to take their word for it.
Is he becoming a victim of the lying world that his client George Zimmerman survives in? I hate to find that anyone would risk their own career as well as damage their own profession by exceeding the the limit of what an attorney must do to professionally represent a client.

The statements of W #9 can not be brought into trial but public opinion is open to any potential juror that may be chosen. What is an interesting thought is did she choose this timing to have her own personal vendetta, why not make it a public announcement years ago? She did mention that “they all knew” I believe that means “family”! So if family all knew, then they are all involved in the protection of GZ as in “that’s what family does”! She may have gone along for years herself accepting the behavior as normal in their environment, now finds opportunity publicly, to accomplish personal gain which would exceed any wish to get a dangerous man out of society.

I am not saying there is no truth in what CAN be true, and certainly know and accept that victims of molestations do keep quiet. There are many many types of molestation that apply but not necessarily to the physical. The emotional rape, the spiritual rape, the lifetime
pain one goes through by gang rape, gang rape by “adults” for some imagined opinion of another in different social atmospheres.
For some reason we as a society never acknowledge that while we are disgusted with the perverted acts against another, we may also be submerged in acts that are as damaging to one we may choose to harass and intimidate on other social levels. One type of “rape” behavior can be read on one page and in turning the page the very same who detest an act of aggressions of one kind are involved in doing that of another kind. Harming someone else in ways that are considered acceptable, a ganging up of several against one to remove them from a premises and or by their desire, announce judgements to the world leaving devastation hurt and lasting pain, whether it be truth or lie. In these situations there is usually a “leader”! One who is admired and wanting to be associated or belong, we can become followers. We become followers or face a very lonely road. George Zimmerman seems to have captured both, that of a lone Sociopath having family members who appear to admire and protect him. Maybe W#9 will cause a break and others within the family will come forward.

No matter who comes forward NOW!!! Trayvon is still dead by the hand of one who believes he can’t be touched and reprimanded in any way. I truly wonder if he would even know that he has been hit by a truck if it does happen and he is found guilty of deliberately having a desire and set out to kill another human being. Even today, he seems content with himself, ” he saved the peoples” from a “no good”! No remorse for the death of a young man, whose life He “chose” to destroy. No indication of fear for his soul, weeping for his victim. To himself, he is the victim, he “thought his head was going to explode” and “feared for his life”! which to him justifies his growing urge, had to kill, or these “punks” will just keep getting away with it. Who is the punk today?

I am counting on the prosecution which I find a little quiet but trust they have some firecrackers to will bring about surprise in the trial.

I read every word and agree with most of what you say. You have described devious, manipulative, controlling, abusive and bullying behavior very well and I suspect you are right about George Zimmerman.

I just don’t believe I have enough information to reach that conclusion yet.

I suspect the other victim whom W9 mentioned is a member of her family, possibly her sister. Whomever it is, it’s someone close to her whom she trusts and she might yet come forward in solidarity with W9.

George Zimmerman appears to have many problems. As we focus on him, we should keep in mind that he was supposedly abused physically by his mother while his father stood by and did nothing to protect him. That might explain some of his behavior, assuming it’s true.

If there is one thing that I know for certain, he is not a credible person. I assume he’s lying unless what he says can be independently verified.

This story makes me furious. I agree, this is not about sexual abuse to the murder case as much as it is about control. Zimmerman has a internal push, it seems, to control. To me, it is validated by GZ’s documented behavior as a bully, that will stop at nothing (including crushing another with abuse) to get that control he craves.

Yes, it probably stems from his childhood. He was probably abused and felt a lack of control in his own life, therefore sought to fulfill that need for “control” in others. It was obvious to me when listening to the first round of jail calls that he talks to Shellie like a 5 year old like she is unable to think for herself. He had her write down simplistic instructions and told his sister to double check to make sure Shellie followed his kindergarten instructions about the money handling.

Also, the testimony given by this cousin is the EXACT behavior traits given by the coworker to describe GZ. He is pleasant, charming, and articulate that it is difficult to not believe him in front of others. He is another person behind the scenes in his “comfort”area. They almost used the same words.

As this relates to Trayvon, GZ obviously thought he was “beneath” him. He obviously stopped at nothing to control him as well, even if that meant abusing him.

I have always felt if by some miracle GZ walks, it will not be the last time we hear of him. He has been a time bomb his whole life waiting to explode which happened last Feb. All signs indicate he is still that same bomb. There has been no “change” based on this experience.

His behavior before (as I thought hearing the interview of his Middle Eastern coworker) and since in lying about money and passport is really no different that this new discovery release. It all points to the same person, the same behavior, and the same abuses…you cannot “segment” and excuse abuse. GZ is an abuser, this is just latest victim we are hearing about.

The Free Republic is reporting that Witness #9 is Christina Meza, Cousin of George Zimmerman, Daughter of “Mike” Luis Miguel Meza.

Would that be the “Christina” tattoo that George has on his chest?

When George Zimmerman was booked into John E. Polk Correctional Facility in Seminole County, Florida, police took note of his tattoos, including “theatrical masks” on his left arm as well as a “Christina inside a cross” on his chest.

i recall describing MOM as a sleaze at fdl when i read on his website that he was soliciting funds from people who would have done the same thing as gz. you responded that you weren’t willing to go that far. this new behavior of his has not changed my mind.

maybe there’s some bizarre destiny being fulfilled here. at this point, it’s looking like gz and mom are a match made in heaven.

For all we know W9’s accusations of molestation could be true. Making personal attacks full of lies in the media against a victim of molestation is something that a monster would do. I have now concluded that O’Mara is a monster defending a monster. O’Mara only looks stupider and more unprofessional with every dumb action that he makes.

If O’Mara knew his statements were lies I think that means he is worried that W9’s statements will taint the jury pool. The public has analyzed all of GZ’s statements and confirmed many of Zimmerman’s lies and deception. Any intelligent person that has been following the evidence can see he is guilty of murder. The lies are proof that he is covering up the fact that he pursued TM on foot. If they can actually pick 12 intelligent jurors instead of the idiots that acquitted Casey Anthony, I am pretty sure GZ is screwed.

#9 demeanor in tape re: his touching her, sounds too much like she is putting on. A child of the age being considered, when annoyed by an unfamiliar touch to parts of their body by someone usually will yell, “STOP IT!’ perhaps kick and hit the assailant, letting everyone know of the happening. #9 demeanor in tape re: family being raciest there is a grown up in control of emotion. Maybe it will not come up at trial. Families of certain areas are quite acceptable to “sleeping under the same blankets”. Wasn’t the Zimmerman family from Virginia or some other Southern State where it is part of their natural family existence . Above it all, would be if ZG is claimed to have been mind warped by his environment. The younger and weaker are thought to be ignorant to how society views it all. To bully and intimidate is something that he was doing in the following of Trayvon, in GA’s view is perfectly acceptable, including that of family being raciest as claimed by #9. GZ had learned this as all being ok, having had approval and support of family. Of Course if his mentality is not an issue in trial, none of it if of use. If he takes the stand to testify on his own behalf. imo will help in his defense. He will give a presence of being DISTURBED!
Incapable of sound judgement.

When I was in kindergarten the boy I sat next to showed me his penis under the table. I was so afraid of him from that day until the last day of school. At the time I knew what he did was wrong, I didn’t know why it was wrong, but I knew I did not want him to show me his penis anymore, yet I was afraid to tell anyone, not my teacher nor my parents. Some people might say this sounds silly, but to my 5 year old mind I was terrified of him and now I realize he knew I was afraid because everyday after that I had to give him my cookies, or any desert we had in school. And like W9, I never told anyone this until I was grown.

Now that I relect, I think I felt dirty just because I looked, not knowing what I would be looking at when he said look at this. I can imagine W9 not speaking up right away because of fear or being ashamed of what he did to her and from that point she may have felt she had to comply because knowing George he would have put all the blame on her anyway, thats the type of person he is.

I think it’s important for victims of sex abuse to speak up about the psychological effects of abuse so that others, who have never been victimized, understand why child victims do not come forward and name the people who abuse them.

You have shown great courage in speaking out and for that I commend you.

I was also sexually abused as a child by family member for about 3 years. The fear did not start when the sexual abuse started, the control and dominance was established before. There is a silent burden that is born by a child that is abused. Some never tell. I am an adult with grown children of my own, and finally told a person in my family just a few years ago that was sworn to secrecy.

I can relate to the fear of losing relationships that are “part of your life”. Aunts, uncles, parents, siblings, cousins that make us part of who we are and feel connected to, could immediately go away if it was exposed or the finger was pointed.

Most family members do not believe the abused over the abuser if the abuser seems a “good guy” everyone respects. It seems the cousin expressed that was an issue. I relate to that feeling 100%.

I believe it’s important for others, who have not been abused and find it difficult to understand why someone would not publicly accuse their abuser, to hear personal stories like yours that explain so clearly how the fear of not being believed and being ostracized by one’s own family effectively silences many victims.

Exactly. If he was this wannabe thug or gangsta, he’d be telling his girlfriend that he’d kick his ass, beat the shit out of him, etc. Instead, they were talking about how he could get away from GZ, NOT how to confront him.

GZ’s alleged injuries certainly aren’t consistent with someone being punched in the face 20 times or so, as he said to the SPD. TM’s knuckles & hands didn’t appear to have been involved with a beating of the type that GZ indicated, either. Just the thought of GZ’s obvious lies turns my stomach. I am so hoping that a competent and thorough jury will be seated that can evaluate the evidence with an unbiased eye for the truth. If that happens, GZ should be spending a couple decades behind bars for taking an innocent life.

This case is really starting turn into a real mess. Everything that George claims to have taken place are all coming back to bite him! There were questionable things before, but now there is not one thing that he says that can be believed.

I looked at the pictures of his shoes that night and they left me puzzled. I kept thinking, well the toes are wet with grass while the heels are completely dry. If I were pinned, tried to sit up and shimmied, I would certainly have used my legs and feet. I certainly would not have lain there as he banged my head, punched my face and smothered me, but only grab at his wrist when “I feel like he seen my gun and slid his hand down my chest”!

I don’t see how it helps the defense and it is extremely unlikely to come up at trial, so it’s pretty much a non-issue, except to the extent that it reduces financial contributions or makes it more difficult to seat a jury.

“If you deny the cousin’s fear was real, then to preserve intellectual honesty, you must deny that Zimmerman’s fear was real when he killed Trayvon.”

False dilemma. There can be widely varying circumstances to believe one is real and not the other.

There’s several reasons I’m skeptical of Cristina’s claims that wouldn’t apply to George’s situation. Cristina first called the police to claim that George and his whole family were racists and had a long history of hostility toward blacks. When asked for examples of things George did or said to make her think she was racist…she had no answer. So when they asked her for specifics about George’s family, the best story she could come up with was one where George’s mother said (And I’m not making this up), “I don’t like Obama because he’s black and I’m a racist!”

Oh and:

“Apparently, O’Mara has asked for reciprocal discovery on W9 and that is not a good move at this time because it looks so thuggish.”

is incorrect. O’Mara says he has reciprocal descovery on W9 to discredit her story that he’ll be showing in the coming weeks.

Have you been sexually molested as a child? If not, then I might refrain judgement from what you or others consider “appropriate responses’ of someone who is scared of a family member that sexually molested her for 10 years. I suspect if you ask someone who was sexually molested as a child what they felt like, and how they handled it….it may well be very in line with this cousin’s shown response.

I must agree. As a little girl of 7 – 10 years of age, my mother dated a man that would molest me and my sisters. This would happen during movies in the living room laying on the couch. If I am not mistaken, my mom could have been there (perhaps sleep at the time), but it’s a bit of a fog to me now. He was so slick as he would play with me down there that she could have very well been laying on the other couch watching the movies. I had buried it somewhere in the back of my brain.

I finally told my mother about 10 years ago. My sisters also shared their stories which I didn’t know about as I thought that he was only doing this to me. My mother wanted to know why we waited so long to tell her. I am now 45 years old. I told her that I was not sure. She was furious that we had ALL kept that dirty secret for all those years.

Truth is that I think I felt ashamed and at fault for some reason. Once I became an adult and realized that HE was wrong, it became an embarrassment that I had not spoken up sooner. So I held on to it for many more years.

I believe W9 having the same experience at such a young age. She would have no reason to lie or embarrass herself or family by coming forward. As a cousin of the accused, one would expect her to try to protect Zimmerman just as Shelly has.

Revise of the above: I meant to point out that, there is that time tested ole thing: to make some allegation in the Sexual area…

Bringing into the court case the trial, introducing issues of sexual nature… seems to me… that’s the way to go… introduce sexual issues…. to divert attention away to sexual shit… then the whole thing can be put down a gutter. And that’s a way to get away…

Well here’s a thing I thought of as abouts the sexual allegations: It kind of reminds me of… (” So when did you stop beating your wife… sir?” ).

and like in that vein, and… of a moment, when a certain individual… ( like him or not, this other note worthy guy, who is under a similar cloud” as that he may have done some sexual thing… (sans condome…! ).

To wit: J Assange and that whole thing… I don’t think he is much of a man, too blond/white haired… to strange… too! He’s a fake!

I don’t believe or disbelieve in these people, but I sure don’t approve of using tacky allegations from the bedroom, to nail people in the … “whistleblowrer’s confabulations…!!”

It sounds a little like that the same ole same ole, is coming around again, which is… “when did you stop… ?” (punching out the ole girl?…

Ass ange: well, he doesn’t resonate too well, he seems to be a fake, but if not, then we may or may not find out, that he was authentic, or not. I don’t think so because they would have took him out if he was bucking the system much.

If one believes W9’s statement, it helps to show GZ takes advantage of those he perceives as weak or less than, meaning a 6 y/o child, a 17 y/o teenager, and a minority in the work place (the man he worked with at the car dealership). GZ may not be a hard core racist, but he would never have approached a 17 y/o white kid, or a 28 y/o black man. He would not have told racist jokes at work,if his co-worker was a bigger man or had someone at work that had his back. GZ learned young those he could take advantage of and it started with his 6 y/o cousin, he also learned how to charm adults and put forth a persona of a person who could not have possibly done some of the things he has been accused of. Why did GZ not have a relationship with his family for the last five years? Could it be that they finally realized what they were dealing with? GZ has some real problems that have gone unchecked for most of his life and has culminated in a 2nd degree murder charge.

FWIW, I am the only member of my immediate family, and in my circle of friends who is following this case. I even received a negative reaction to my interest on another internet forum, a general discussion forum of all places. I ‘got the message’ and have refrained from making further comments on that forum. There hasn’t been a single reference to this case since.

Thank you for providing an hospitable refuge.

Now we have a courageous relative confirming my suspicion that GZ is the “Eddie Haskell” of Seminole County Florida. An impression I developed the moment GZ took the stand at his 1st bond hearing.

No telling what this latest revelation will shake loose with respect to other victims. And I use the term ‘victim’ to include those suffer physical, emotional and related forms of abuse.

[“I have written about this possibility before and, as I stated then, the prosecution probably will need Shellie Zimmerman’s cooperation and testimony against GZ to make that case.
Will W9’s statement be the straw that breaks Shellie Zimmerman’s back and sends her knock knock knockin’ on the door to the prosecutor’s office?
Who knows, she might even throw in an admission that GZ did not kill TM in self-defense.
Stay tuned.”]

I bet she might/could be one of those… who, are of a character to assist in the crime, like as they call them… “enablers”. There’s bunches of women that like the criminality of their guys! (That is a whole thriving industry too!) There’s been so many… well the Manson family women may be an kind of example, another was the Galagos murders. but they go on and on, in fact my idea is, criminality thrives from the willful accomplices that are too ready to lend a hand.
Where the enabling wife/pardner goes along, sometimes active and sometimes passive/assistive, so what woman would be a good handle to a pot like that one? Chances are… ! just sayin, ( “innocent”… if reasonable doubt persists through the thing.) is that germane, Prof Fred?

Towards the end of the conversation, I thought I heard him call the person Scott. I was wondering throughout if it was his father, but decided he probably wouldn’t have been that casual and familiar with his father. The other person sounded like someone he was close with, a friend or brother or cousin.

Guess not. Now, I wonder who Scott is. He may have been using a fictitious name. One guess I have is the former Seminole County Sheriff’s Deputy who now works for the Department of Homeland Security. GZ stayed at his house in Lake Mary for several weeks while this case was pending. I think his last name is Ostrander, or something like that.

Sorry for delay – exactly as @greenwarrior stated. Literally as the called ended you hear GZ say “Scott”. I was waiting for “beam me up Scotty” … sorry I can’t help myself.

Also, in this long conversation, GZ & “Scott” had a back & forth about the triangulation of JB (Baez), SH (Sean Hannity) and Taffe. SH being able to get his defense paid for if he has JB on the team.

Also, talked about MOM (O’Money as someone on twitter has coined him …no pun) was going to get him declared indigent.

GZ: MOM is going to try and get me declared indigent. I told him that I didn’t think that was a possibility b/c you know there was the one possible transfer I tried to make and it got stopped, you know the $37. He said ‘well that doesn’t matter. Right now you are not working, not providing an income for your family, you are probably never going to be employable for the rest of your life. So basically they will declare you indigent.’

Question: If GZ is to be believed on 4/14/12 MOM knew about $37K in PP … Have MOM’s claims to the court about his knowledge of PP on 4/10/12 (1st bond hearing) been provided wrong?

O’Mara would have done nothing wrong, if he knew about and disclosed the $37 K in his request for GZ to be found indigent. The case was going to cost way more than that and it would not have been inappropriate to apply for an order of indigency since GZ’s assets, even with the $37 K, were insufficient to pay for his defense.

So, the answer to your question depends on whether he disclosed the money in an indigency application. If he knew about it and did not, he could be in trouble with the court and with the bar association. He might even be prosecuted for perjury.

I think he had not filed paperwork yet claiming Zimmerman was indigent and asking for state assistance for his defense. However, O’Mara did say in the the initial bond hearing and confirmed with the witnesses (the family), that they had no amount of money or fund that could be used for bond. He claimed and supported with testimony of the family that they would need to “scrap together” money to come up with any bond. His father also indicated he would need to obtain a loan on his house for any bail amount over $1500 (as the defense asked for a $15,000 bail).

O’Mara also directly asked Shellie if there was any monies that could be used for bail and Shellie replied “Not that I know of”.

I can go back and read the “Application for Reasonable Bond” that was filed on 4/12 for the bond hearing on 4/20, but I am fairly sure that O’Mara fully presented that the family had no funds to use for bond and were indigent. I believe they exposed all “known” sources of money in that request including checking and savings accounts.

Would not the knowledge of 37K would be considered questionable by O’Mara in that context?

He did respond to the allegation today…he basically said that he remembers something about a transfer, but did not recall the amount. He believes “had it been $10,000, $100,000, or $37,000 he would have remembered it”.

Professor, I am a huge fan but surprised that you are buying into her story. She said “George was not quite 8” which made his 7 years old. This account is so dumb. “Under a blanket infront of the TV and parents:. George at 7 was copping a feel. Even the Tooth Fairy is more credible. She also claimed racism but could not give any specifics and that “everybody knew” was the “neighborhood. Of course, the Feds sent 10 agents to Sanford to investigate this and concluded that “..there is no evidence of racism in this case..”. She is about as credible as DD. The almost inarticulate George was so knowledgable at 7 but not at 28. My thoughts.

Lynp, I am saddened to read that you think that people “are buying into a story”. Your reaction to her disclosure of abuse as a “dumb” and “less credible story than the tooth Fairy” is rather troublesome.

When I listened to that woman’s interview, as a victim of molestation myself, it was as though I was reliving it word for word, thought for thought, feeling for feeling, tear for tear. I can assure you that it is not “dumb” and very real.

Instead of trivializing her abuse why not express some compassion or support for this woman, whoever she may be.

Unless you could give me one solid motive for why this woman would lie about something like this, I would be inclined to believe her story. I’m sure everyone dreams about telling the whole world that they were raped. You also seem to forget that this is his cousin, not just some random person.

Being a Pediatric Nurse Practitioner and unfortunately having had to deal with matters of sexual abuse of children, it is very, very common for those who have been molested, especially by a family member, to feel uncomfortable coming forward with the details of what happened. It sounds like the poster above didn’t read the entire statement as it is not an isolated instance that happened at the age of 8 but an ongoing pattern of repeated molesting for over ten years. Children do not want to come forward for many reasons. They’re conflicted by feelings about family, thinking they are supposed to love and trust them. They usually believe, and in many cases, rightfully so, that they will not be considered credible, especially if it happens over a prolonged time period. This may be why George was estranged from his parents and brother. I haven’t heard anything credible as to whether or not that is the case but it would certainly be a good reason.

When trying to speak to a defendant’s character, if during cross examination a friend or neighbor was to talk about what a “great guy GZ was, helpful, etc.”, is that enough of a statement to introduce the cousin’s claims of molestation or do they have to put actual character witnesses on the stand that the prosecution can then rebut? Obviously IANAL but am unsure as to how this could be introduced or at what level of introspection into GZ’s character it would be allowed? Thanks for anything you can add to this.

The very fact that there are people who jumped all over the cousin’s statement is the reason why so many of these molestations go unreported. Look back at the women who came forward during the primaries in regards to Herman Cain, they were made out to be the ones who were untruthful by many despite the correlation between their stories. I think that false accusations are few and far between in the grand scope of reportings to law enforcement. Sadly enough we still have this same problem with our women in military. Until we treat these victims as victims, we will continue to sweep these crimes under the rug far too often.

Thanks for providing more information about the sex abuse of children from a nurse practitioner’s nviewpoint and why they are so reluctant to accuse their abusers.

The defense attorneys need to instruct their witnesses not to say anything about GZ’s character and, of course, never venture into the subject matter with their opening statement, closing argument or mention it in questions they ask witnesses.

Evidence of good character carries little weight anyway, so most lawyers never even think of venturing into that area. I don’t believe I ever did.

I do not have any statistics on how many victims a sexual predator has molested before he is caught.

I doubt there are any statistics that are considered reliable and accurate since investigators would have to rely on the predator for information about victims unknown to them. Most predators probably would intentionally underreport the number of victims to avoid being prosecuted or suffering further embarrassment and humiliation.

I was a victim of sexual abuse when I was a child, which is why I understand the confusion and embarrassment that child victims experience.

I suspect only a small percentage of the victims of child sex abuse ever report it and an even smaller percentage of the perpetrators are ever prosecuted.

I would not be surprised to discover that the actual incidence of sexual abuse of children is more than 10 times higher than the number of reported incidents.

I don’t suppose we will ever know how high it is.

People really need to wake up to this problem and stop blaming the victims.

Given the amount of scornful and humiliating victim trashing that is apparent to any victim of sexual abuse, I think it’s a wonder that any victim reports the crime these days.

Doubters should stop and think about that before assuming the worst about W9.

They should also stop and think about Shellie Zimmerman and ask themselves about the nature of her relationship to GZ and why she might have been so apparently willing to do his bidding and lie for him in court.

I put claims of rape and molestation under a great deal of scrutiny these days, but I don’t see the incentive for Zimmerman’s cousin to lie. She reported this to police before the media picked the case up. We learned last week that George had been estranged from his family until the killing of Martin. Her statement confirms that both their families knew this and that Zimmerman stopped attending family gathering after she told her parents. This isn’t exactly relevant to the case but I don’t see any reason for her to make this up.

According to Osterman, George’s air marshal buddy, George’s mother used to abuse he and his siblings and dad just turned a blind eye to it.

Now I won’t totally make the jump to say that she sexually abused George, but many abusers were abused themselves. When kids that young act out sexually its usually because of what has happened to them.

The other stomach turning thought is that GZ knew he could do this to her, without reprisal, because he knew from experience no one would pay attention.

Before I go on a tiny rant I would like to say that I believe that W9 is telling the truth. A woman can make a false claim of rape and do unreversible damage to someone’s reputation. Meanwhile the accuser’s name is protected by law while they blast the alleged rapist’s name all over the news. I live in Michigan and someone has told me that you can’t even counter-sue a woman that makes a false rape claim. I think it is a joke that they can release the name of the supposed molester but the victim’s name is protected. The system is supposed to be “innocent until proven guilty” so it is very messed up how they can protect the accuser’s name and completely destroy someone’s reputation when they have not even been convicted yet. The system is very messed up.

When I was a kid I would often visit my Aunt’s farm. She and her husband had a kennel and I loved seeing all of their puppies. On more than one occasion I witnessed her oldest son being abusive and mean to the dogs. I told my parents and grandparents and they scolded me for saying mean things about such a sweet boy.
When I was in middle school that same sweet boy tried to rape me. I told only one person~another cousin.
In my twenties I turned on the news and there was my would be rapist being arrested for torturing the 50 plus dogs HE was raising and selling. I screwed up my courage and told my story to my family and then the police.
Fortunately, I had the corroboration of the cousin I told, and I was believed. When my story became public knowledge several other girls came forward with abuse stories of their own,(including his sisters).
My sick and twisted cousin pled gulity and went to jail for many years.
Is this girl being truthful? I don’t know. But I do know that this kind of abuse happens every single day, and it’s not reported.
I have heard many question her motives. We must remember that she reported her experience long before the case was public knowledge. She gave testimony to the police but has not taken money from media sources.
I think it is also important to note that the only person to release her identity is Zimmerman’s attorney. Also, he didn’t deny the abuse he simply stated it was not relevant to the case at hand.

“Answer: The not-ready-for-prime-time defense team still isn’t ready.”

IANAL (obviously), and that’s been my contention all along. I know George Zimmerman types and I also know greedy-prissy-lawyer-types that are out of touch and in way over their heads! They underestimate their own clients by exhibiting the exact same delusional character traits. (I can smooth out anything by being charming types.)

The 28-year old baby argument O’Mara put forth in the 2nd bond hearing sealed the deal for me. This was on top of his failure to “know” about the money in the mass media publicized website fundraising site Zimmerman had set up prior to the hearing.

I would like to get your thoughts on O’Mara’s alleged failure to “know” about the GZ paypal website. I use the word “alleged” because I am deeply disturbed about statements made by Zimmerman in jailhouse call #30 dated arpril 14th, released today. In that call Zimmerman states that he has discussed the website with O’Mara and also tells him about an attempt to transfer $37 (code for 37,000).

Was O’Mara truthful when he said he only found out about the website 4-5 days after the april 20th bond hearing ?