frepnog:Carth: frepnog: gnosis301: I'm buying whatever console can get the most Japanese games to these shores.

what shores? USA? Because that would be PS4, but why exactly? Japanese game development is at least 10 years behind the west, and more like 15. Or do you just ENJOY mindless grinding, senseless stories, games on firm rails and work\dating sims?

Yea who would want to play boring little games like Kingdom Hearts 2.5 and 3, Professor Layton, Disgaea, Persona, Grand Turismo, Final Fantasy or Pokemon.

your opinion man and all that. There's a lot of eastern developed titles on all platforms I'd like an opportunity to play.And a lot of western created titles , even if they are all mindless on rails generic FPS clones with too many check points, too many QTE's and a token animal thrown in there for good measure.

Mike_LowELL:frepnog: I want some of what you are smoking, because it is obviously some high grade stuff, man.

The Japanese have always done traditional action games better. And to quote something in your other post:

The problem is that Japanese developers struggle to make games for the modern Western gamer.

This is only their problem from a business standpoint. Japanese developers struggle to make games for the modern Western gamer because their games actually tend to be challenging and well-designed, and you actually have to understand the systems and mechanics in order to be good at them.

Nemo's Brother: The Japanese game companies have all dropped the ball this last generation. Yay, another 30 minute cut scene. If any of them could write, it wouldn't only be hair-pulling bad.

I would consult the list of games that I mentioned above. After you see them the first time, the cutscenes in those games can be skipped without a hitch.

To help with your point about Japanese games being difficult unless you learn the mechanics. Look at Demon's Soul and Dark Souls. Those two games are some of the most difficult games I have played last generation... until I learned how to play and the game became easy. I could down bosses without being hit due to how the game was set up. You had to watch and learn what your enemies did. And then learn how to counter them in certain ways. Will a parry do or should I go for the back stab? Dodge the hit, deflect it with my shield or take the hit hoping my poise wont break.

frepnog:gingerjet: frepnog: Don't be stupid. The world is ready, nay, BEGGING for something new. This console generation has stretched on FAR too long, and the new Xbox is neck and neck with pre-orders with the PS4 - brand loyalty is BIG in America. Xbox ONE will do just fine. With the news that the Xbox ONE will not require the Kinect to be attached, it will do nothing but sell and sell well. All MS needs is a few big exclusives (or a HALO 5 announcement) and the thing will fly off the shelves. Christmas this year will be interesting, at least.

So I'm curious what you do as an employee for Microsoft?

I don't work for MS. I am not shilling for the Xbox ONe. I am simply stating facts - that the world is ready for something new, there are two new consoles coming out, and one of them has a large market share already, die hard fans, and lots of people that are going to pony up day of launch and take one home. This next-gen race will be neck and neck. The price difference MIGHT get some Xbox fans onboard with PS4, but fact is that people will play what their friends have, and I already know TONS of people that are basically tied to Xbox LIVE with a group of friends that are in that same category, and are absolutely sticking with MS. Sony will do fine, I don't for one minute believe that MS is going to trounce them, but by the same token, anyone that thinks Sony is going to destroy the Xbox ONE are deluding themselves.

frepnog:yves0010: You had to watch and learn what your enemies did. And then learn how to counter them in certain ways.

so. same old crap - learn the boss patterns to win.

being doing that since NES days, and frankly, I was sick of it 10 years ago.

Hell, the concept of the "boss fight" should have died years ago.

Not really as the enemies might have the same pattern but you never know if a player would attack you out of no where. Or that the enemies would gang up on you. it is all about situational awareness in that game. Each encounter would be unique, as I have never had the same fight with the same enemies.

Hebalo:digistil: Carth: scottydoesntknow: Sony won't drop their prices until Microsoft drops theirs to below the PS4. They've already undercut the Xbox One by $100. There won't be any price breaks on the PS4 for a while.

If Xbox One is drastically outsold this holiday season I expect a $349 kinectless SKU around Titanfall's launch.

If? Everything I've read from investors has the Xbox One as the next Saturn.

I think you're completely incorrect. You're not taking in to account that Xbox One is gambling on expanding their market outside of hardcore gaming. It's a media center. And yes, you and half the people on here have their own homebrew media centers. But that's appealing to the average consumer. plug it in, connect to all kinds of media. Microsoft has been positioning itself well to deal with cloud-based computing, and it will show with this product.

in short:

PS4: Will sell to hardcore PS fans, hardcore gamers who hate Xbox OneXbox One: Will sell to hardcore Xbox fans, people who want media centerWiiU: Will sell to people with kids 4-12, casual gamers.

Most everyone I know who still games (I'm 34) bought a PS3 because it was also a media player. Why would the 4 be any different?

Summer Glau's Love Slave:frepnog: gingerjet: frepnog: Don't be stupid. The world is ready, nay, BEGGING for something new. This console generation has stretched on FAR too long, and the new Xbox is neck and neck with pre-orders with the PS4 - brand loyalty is BIG in America. Xbox ONE will do just fine. With the news that the Xbox ONE will not require the Kinect to be attached, it will do nothing but sell and sell well. All MS needs is a few big exclusives (or a HALO 5 announcement) and the thing will fly off the shelves. Christmas this year will be interesting, at least.

So I'm curious what you do as an employee for Microsoft?

I don't work for MS. I am not shilling for the Xbox ONe. I am simply stating facts - that the world is ready for something new, there are two new consoles coming out, and one of them has a large market share already, die hard fans, and lots of people that are going to pony up day of launch and take one home. This next-gen race will be neck and neck. The price difference MIGHT get some Xbox fans onboard with PS4, but fact is that people will play what their friends have, and I already know TONS of people that are basically tied to Xbox LIVE with a group of friends that are in that same category, and are absolutely sticking with MS. Sony will do fine, I don't for one minute believe that MS is going to trounce them, but by the same token, anyone that thinks Sony is going to destroy the Xbox ONE are deluding themselves.

I nominate frepnog for "Shill Of The Year."

/All opposed?

i dunno. there's nothing incorrect in what's been said. I have both "this gen" consoles, but never got into the 360 as much as the ps3. Therefore i'm only going ps4 for next gen. But there are plenty of people heavily invested in their gamertags and achievement scores, plus their circle of virtual and not so virtual player friends that won't give that all up to console hop.

yves0010:Look at Demon's Soul and Dark Souls. Those two games are some of the most difficult games I have played last generation... until I learned how to play and the game became easy. I could down bosses without being hit due to how the game was set up. You had to watch and learn what your enemies did. And then learn how to counter them in certain ways.

That's supposed to be the idea. Go back through the older arcade and console games and--assuming you're playing the ones worth a damn--you'll get to do this over and over, and it's great. I've been playing Bionic Commando, and it's wonderful to see how it plays completely different than pretty much any other platformer I can think of on the system, even if it has its occasional down moments. Took a while to get used to the mechanics, but once you do, it's a joy, and it was fun getting to that point, either which way. You don't have to learn anything to play today's console games. Everything is standardized and everything is spelled out for you.

frepnog:being doing that since NES days, and frankly, I was sick of it 10 years ago.

Then you're basically saying "I don't like games where I actually have to learn how to play." Half the fun in a game is trying to figure that shiat out. Then, if the game is well-designed, you still have to execute the concepts successfully.

frepnog:Hell, the concept of the "boss fight" should have died years ago.

olapbill:Summer Glau's Love Slave: frepnog: gingerjet: frepnog: Don't be stupid. The world is ready, nay, BEGGING for something new. This console generation has stretched on FAR too long, and the new Xbox is neck and neck with pre-orders with the PS4 - brand loyalty is BIG in America. Xbox ONE will do just fine. With the news that the Xbox ONE will not require the Kinect to be attached, it will do nothing but sell and sell well. All MS needs is a few big exclusives (or a HALO 5 announcement) and the thing will fly off the shelves. Christmas this year will be interesting, at least.

So I'm curious what you do as an employee for Microsoft?

I don't work for MS. I am not shilling for the Xbox ONe. I am simply stating facts - that the world is ready for something new, there are two new consoles coming out, and one of them has a large market share already, die hard fans, and lots of people that are going to pony up day of launch and take one home. This next-gen race will be neck and neck. The price difference MIGHT get some Xbox fans onboard with PS4, but fact is that people will play what their friends have, and I already know TONS of people that are basically tied to Xbox LIVE with a group of friends that are in that same category, and are absolutely sticking with MS. Sony will do fine, I don't for one minute believe that MS is going to trounce them, but by the same token, anyone that thinks Sony is going to destroy the Xbox ONE are deluding themselves.

I nominate frepnog for "Shill Of The Year."

/All opposed?

i dunno. there's nothing incorrect in what's been said. I have both "this gen" consoles, but never got into the 360 as much as the ps3. Therefore i'm only going ps4 for next gen. But there are plenty of people heavily invested in their gamertags and achievement scores, plus their circle of virtual and not so virtual player friends that won't give that all up to console hop.

I honestly don't think they care. No BC means having to buy entirely new games anyways, and GS doesn't really get you anything.

By the logic in your post, the wii U should be selling like mad, and the ps3 should have won last gen. Gamers are probably the least loyal by far when it comes to brands between generations. they will go where they want to go, and next to nothing will stop them.

Antimatter:olapbill: Summer Glau's Love Slave: frepnog: gingerjet: frepnog: Don't be stupid. The world is ready, nay, BEGGING for something new. This console generation has stretched on FAR too long, and the new Xbox is neck and neck with pre-orders with the PS4 - brand loyalty is BIG in America. Xbox ONE will do just fine. With the news that the Xbox ONE will not require the Kinect to be attached, it will do nothing but sell and sell well. All MS needs is a few big exclusives (or a HALO 5 announcement) and the thing will fly off the shelves. Christmas this year will be interesting, at least.

So I'm curious what you do as an employee for Microsoft?

I don't work for MS. I am not shilling for the Xbox ONe. I am simply stating facts - that the world is ready for something new, there are two new consoles coming out, and one of them has a large market share already, die hard fans, and lots of people that are going to pony up day of launch and take one home. This next-gen race will be neck and neck. The price difference MIGHT get some Xbox fans onboard with PS4, but fact is that people will play what their friends have, and I already know TONS of people that are basically tied to Xbox LIVE with a group of friends that are in that same category, and are absolutely sticking with MS. Sony will do fine, I don't for one minute believe that MS is going to trounce them, but by the same token, anyone that thinks Sony is going to destroy the Xbox ONE are deluding themselves.

I nominate frepnog for "Shill Of The Year."

/All opposed?

i dunno. there's nothing incorrect in what's been said. I have both "this gen" consoles, but never got into the 360 as much as the ps3. Therefore i'm only going ps4 for next gen. But there are plenty of people heavily invested in their gamertags and achievement scores, plus their circle of virtual and not so virtual player friends that won't give that all up to console hop.

I honestly don't think they care. No BC means having to buy entirely n ...

well hold on. Wii had the worst social network going. Personally I think the general feeling that the Wii was kid oriented and heavy in shovelware is what has damaged the wii U. Plus the fact Wii U seems all too current gen on the cusp of next gen launch.Current gen wise, at launch, there was enough exclusive titles per system that swayed buyers one way on another. That line seems to now be limited to mostly timed exclusives, with very few titles being one console only. With the purchase of the streaming company, Sony has hinted at having back catalogues available on the ps4 at a date TBD for ps3 titles. I'm sure MS will look to do the same. Again, I don't think that the circle you play on line with can be overlooked as part of the criteria on next gen console purchase. Hell, button layout is a deciding factor for my lazy ass.

Ha, I thought I was the only one who was that insane. I went with Xbox 360 last gen because I hate the Dual shock 3 and am picking up PS4 this gen because the DS4 is awesome and i found the XBO controller too small and the bumpers were annoying.

gnosis301:rpm: Also, something that is just better than you by virtue of improved armor / HP isn't any fun. It's just a slog to kill him.

I see. I guess the bosses I'm used to fighting are old school type state-machine controlled/pattern recognition bosses.Like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oqK3DXSnSQ

Those can be, and are often, cheap. Make some of the things too powerful and relatively rare, you're going to be doing the boss over and over to get the pattern. Plus, if the tells are too quick, it's cheap.

I don't mind bosses where, if I die, it's because I farked up and know I farked up, and know how to adjust to fix it. I want a challenge, not something frustrating; there's a fine line between the two.

what are you smoking? the PS controller has sucked since they bolted analog sticks onto the original PS1 pad.

Um not even close. I spent about 60 minutes with the controller yesterday and they changed a ton of things. The controller is larger, the trigers are concave not convex same with the analog sticks. Also it didn't feel slippery after 30 minutes like the DS3 did. It is right up there with the XB360 controller for my favorite of all time.

the Xbox one controller on the other hand seems smaller and they got rid of the space between the bumper and trigger which i found really annoying. The rumble on the triggers was very neat though. It felt like they took an awesome controller and made a bunch of changes most of which made it worst.

rpm:Those can be, and are often, cheap. Make some of the things too powerful and relatively rare, you're going to be doing the boss over and over to get the pattern. Plus, if the tells are too quick, it's cheap.

To each their own. I found them to be fun. For me, retrying these kinds of bosses are part of the fun as well. As for the tells, I find the Ys games make their bosses' tells pretty well. Now bosses can be cheap, particularly the last guy from Killzone 2; they can also be unimaginative, like in Mass Effect. Now those bosses I found to be just the same as grunts but with better stats. I suppose the same goes for games like Final Fantasy, as well.

Carth:Um not even close. I spent about 60 minutes with the controller yesterday and they changed a ton of things. The controller is larger, the trigers are concave not convex same with the analog sticks.

gnosis301:For me, retrying these kinds of bosses are part of the fun as well.

As an addendum, it really helps for the game to load up the boss fights quick. Deus Ex was shiat because of the retrying and the load times between retries. Ys loads up the boss rooms really quick and reloading the fights are fast.

I'll probably pick up a PS3 either Black Friday or early 2014 after the price drops so I can play the Naughty Dog games for cheap.

Then I'll likely get an Xbone after the initial launch issues that plague consoles get ironed out. I think the offloading of processing to cloud servers is a great, forward-thinking move that can enable developers to create unique experiences. Free servers incentivizes that as well. Beyond that, there's no compelling reason for me to sway toward either console.

For me it comes down to if the game I like are there, if my friends are there, if the controller and UI is something I can tolerate using for hours on end, and then all the other media stuff is separate. I don't have any friends on PlayStation (or planning on moving there), I despise the feel of the PS controller, and their exclusives outside of Naughty Dog are of no interest to me.

AmazinTim:I'll probably pick up a PS3 either Black Friday or early 2014 after the price drops so I can play the Naughty Dog games for cheap.

Then I'll likely get an Xbone after the initial launch issues that plague consoles get ironed out. I think the offloading of processing to cloud servers is a great, forward-thinking move that can enable developers to create unique experiences. Free servers incentivizes that as well. Beyond that, there's no compelling reason for me to sway toward either console.

For me it comes down to if the game I like are there, if my friends are there, if the controller and UI is something I can tolerate using for hours on end, and then all the other media stuff is separate. I don't have any friends on PlayStation (or planning on moving there), I despise the feel of the PS controller, and their exclusives outside of Naughty Dog are of no interest to me.

Gamestop is going to have a Black Friday bundle with a 250GB PS3, The Last of Us, and Arkham: Origins for $199. That's a ludicrously good deal.

rpm:Well I use Mac/Linux...: rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: I just built a PC for $700 that will be able to run BF4 and The Witcher 3 on Ultra. Conslols.

How well does it run Red Dead Redemption? Inquiring minds want to know.

It doesn't. My PS3 runs it fine, though. What else you got?

So you're saying they're not Conslols, since you actually see a purpose to them. Or are you a hipster using it ironically?

Consoles are fine as secondary gaming machines. Just as you wouldn't take anyone who used a Vita or a 3DS as their main system seriously, I cannot take anyone whose main system is a console seriously. Consoles are for great exclusives that you cannot play on the PC, like RDR. Conslols are for Skyrim and BF3.

Well I use Mac/Linux...:rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: I just built a PC for $700 that will be able to run BF4 and The Witcher 3 on Ultra. Conslols.

How well does it run Red Dead Redemption? Inquiring minds want to know.

It doesn't. My PS3 runs it fine, though. What else you got?

So you're saying they're not Conslols, since you actually see a purpose to them. Or are you a hipster using it ironically?

Consoles are fine as secondary gaming machines. Just as you wouldn't take anyone who used a Vita or a 3DS as their main system seriously, I cannot take anyone whose main system is a console seriously. Consoles are for great exclusives that you cannot play on the PC, like RDR. Conslols are for Skyrim and BF3.

cool. that's enough derp in one post to give you a "don't take seriously about jack shiat color"

olapbill:Well I use Mac/Linux...: rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: I just built a PC for $700 that will be able to run BF4 and The Witcher 3 on Ultra. Conslols.

How well does it run Red Dead Redemption? Inquiring minds want to know.

It doesn't. My PS3 runs it fine, though. What else you got?

So you're saying they're not Conslols, since you actually see a purpose to them. Or are you a hipster using it ironically?

Consoles are fine as secondary gaming machines. Just as you wouldn't take anyone who used a Vita or a 3DS as their main system seriously, I cannot take anyone whose main system is a console seriously. Consoles are for great exclusives that you cannot play on the PC, like RDR. Conslols are for Skyrim and BF3.

cool. that's enough derp in one post to give you a "don't take seriously about jack shiat color"

Well I use Mac/Linux...:rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: rpm: Well I use Mac/Linux...: I just built a PC for $700 that will be able to run BF4 and The Witcher 3 on Ultra. Conslols.

How well does it run Red Dead Redemption? Inquiring minds want to know.

It doesn't. My PS3 runs it fine, though. What else you got?

So you're saying they're not Conslols, since you actually see a purpose to them. Or are you a hipster using it ironically?

Consoles are fine as secondary gaming machines. Just as you wouldn't take anyone who used a Vita or a 3DS as their main system seriously, I cannot take anyone whose main system is a console seriously. Consoles are for great exclusives that you cannot play on the PC, like RDR. Conslols are for Skyrim and BF3.

I buy ether or most of the time, because well, sometimes I just want to kick back in the living room and play versus in my den at the PC. PC and Vita were my go to for the last year and a half or so though, with only a few console purchases.

Next gen will probably be the opposite for the first few years, outside games with heavy mod support or MMO's and rts games.

frepnog:Hell, the concept of the "boss fight" should have died years ago.

Boss fights are great when they fit the environment of the game, or are poorly implemented. Boss fights are terrible when they don't fit the environment of the game, or are poorly implemented.

Good boss fights? The Metroid series, the Zelda series, etc. Bad boss fights? Look to something like Vinnie Gognitti in Max Payne, which was stupid because he's just another guy, but this time, you have to shoot him 50 times in the face. It made no sense considering the type of enemy he was, and the type of game that Remedy had created to that point. You could also consider something like the toxic plant from Bulletstorm, wherein the boss battle was about ten minutes longer than it needed to be, or RAAM from Gears of War, which was just stupid.

It's all about implementation, creativity and the type of game you're making. A boss battle isn't inherently a bad thing, but "guy seems normal but takes a billion bullets to kill him" is just a lazy copout to pad game length.

She already has a 3DS, eventually I'll get a Vita, but the PS4 fits us. We're not big on FPS (it takes something exceptional/different like Portal, Bioshock, Mirror's Edge to get me to touch a FPS-type game), we don't feel the need or want to play online all the time, and when it comes to games in total the Sony consoles have always had the exclusives we want and the cross-platform games we crave. I don't see that changing in this round of consoles.

This console generation the only game I feel I missed out on was Alan Wake for the 360 but it wasn't worth buying another 360 for one game after having sold the 360 we never touched and I don't really feel all that broken up about it.

Carth:Well I use Mac/Linux...: I just built a PC for $700 that will be able to run BF4 and The Witcher 3 on Ultra. Conslols.

You must have reused a lot of parts or not care about resolution/fps. Even my 7990 can barely handle BF4 at 1440p ultra and 60 fps. Mind posting your build?

I reused my case, PSU, and hard drives. I'm running an i5 and a 7970. I was getting around 80fps in the BF4 beta before I downloaded the AMD beta drivers, which were actually worse than what I already had. I just played some BF3 on ultra the night before last and got a steady 60fps while recording with Dxtory. I play at 1920x1200.

Well I use Mac/Linux...:Carth: Well I use Mac/Linux...: I just built a PC for $700 that will be able to run BF4 and The Witcher 3 on Ultra. Conslols.

You must have reused a lot of parts or not care about resolution/fps. Even my 7990 can barely handle BF4 at 1440p ultra and 60 fps. Mind posting your build?

I reused my case, PSU, and hard drives. I'm running an i5 and a 7970. I was getting around 80fps in the BF4 beta before I downloaded the AMD beta drivers, which were actually worse than what I already had. I just played some BF3 on ultra the night before last and got a steady 60fps while recording with Dxtory. I play at 1920x1200.

That is weird. My friend has a 7970 and averages around 55 fps on 1080p ultra 4xMSAA with the beta. I was surprised it couldn't average 60fps without turning down the texture filtering since I'd expect more out of a $300 video card. I'm guessing it will be like the BF3 beta though and the final version will run better.