Ever visit the opposition's threads?

If so, maybe you should -- just to see how far extremists want to take our freedoms away. Try out Democraticunderground.com and see what these party activists are like. Do we really want this crowd deciding about issues like gun ownership, victim's rights and criminal justice?

And do we want their nominee (whether Clark or Dean) to win the next election?

I care too much for this nation to sit back and not try to educate and urge people to vote for the most conservative candidate in every race. If that means that Bush has my backing on 85% of the issues that's better than letting someone slip in who only agrees with me 15% of the time. Pragmatism has its place -- and 4 years is a long time to be stuck with a bunch of liberals doing their thing in the White House.

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jimpeel

December 27, 2003, 06:14 PM

Yeah. The drum beats slowly as the anti-firearms agendists think of ever-increasing ways to further anti-firearms regulation through creeping incrementalism.

That said, there's no reason to go there now.

Wildalaska

December 27, 2003, 06:28 PM

I visit, on a regular basis, various Boards from all ends of the political spectrum.....I consider to be the radical rightists as much of a threat to our freedoms as the radical leftists....

I personally prefer a pragmatic, reasonable "conservative' like Bush to the usual run of screaming right/leftwing loonies or "wplves in sheeps clothing" such as Wesley Clarkinton.

WildsilentmajorityAlaska

Lone_Gunman

December 27, 2003, 06:35 PM

Wildalaska,

What has Bush done that makes you say he is a conservative?

Monkeyleg

December 27, 2003, 07:11 PM

Bush campaigned during the primaries as a conservative, ran to the middle for the general election and, unfortunately, never left the middle on most issues.

As for the original question, no. But last night, while driving back from a gun show up north, I spent two hours listening to a liberal radio talk show. Not only was it the most boring thing I've ever heard, but the callers were really off the wall. They were complaining about how the media is slanted to the conservative side, how the war in Iraq was just a way for Cheney to make money for his old friends at Halliburton and, of course, how Bush stole the election.

Rush Limbaugh has nothing to fear from these folks.

Wildalaska

December 27, 2003, 07:15 PM

What has Bush done that makes you say he is a conservative?

Notice the " "?

WildhesnotaliberalthoughAlaska

seeker_two

December 27, 2003, 07:56 PM

Why?

I know what "stupid" sounds like...:rolleyes:

AZRickD

December 27, 2003, 08:07 PM

If you want a real shock, go visit the political forum at Ms Magazine . com .

Whiney, self-absorbed, man-hating leftists.

Rick

jimpeel

December 27, 2003, 10:08 PM

Remember this thread from TFL? http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=88006

Tied for third place as the thread with the most responses -- 315. Talk about a lively exchange.

Now THAT was a fun time!

rdbrowning

December 28, 2003, 10:54 PM

I tried going to a few, several times. My doctor told me to watch my blood pressure, so I stay away:fire:

nico

December 29, 2003, 01:30 AM

http://pub6.ezboard.com/bthenonhuntersrightscoalition53805

here's an interresting anti-hunting forum. It's extremely slow, but from reading the old posts, you'll learn things like all hunters are wife beaters, they all go into people's yards without permission, shoot at them with their "assault weapons," and then leave beer cans in their wake. :rolleyes:

jimpeel

December 29, 2003, 03:02 AM

You forgot the part about they all live in a trailer and drive pick-up trucks.

nico

December 29, 2003, 03:03 AM

haha yeah, but we all knew that already:p

jimpeel

December 29, 2003, 03:05 AM

Are we the only two stayin' up tonight?

Hello lo lo lo Any ny body ody out out there ere ere ere?

Must be Sunday night. :D

sm

December 29, 2003, 03:46 AM

I'm here.

I just returned from reading that old thread you provided a link to. That was before I joined TFL. I have used and continue to research TFL threads.
I had never read that thread, until now. Excuse me, I need a Tylenol - make that two Tylenol.

I have shared before I have attended a few anti functions just to learn the enemy. I have had my friends attend these with me. It has been awhle since I've done so...but I really think I could better sit through a local anti speech/presentation better than spend time reading that forum. Make that three Tylenol.

I need to read a Lawdog file to get straightened out. :)

jimpeel

December 29, 2003, 04:02 AM

That was a GREAT thread. There's nothing like a good debate. That's when we found out that they watched our threads as lurkers. That meant they were at least curious. We finally got them to participate by invitation.

Don't you get tired of preaching to the choir? Don't you just once in a while want to go out and get in one hell of a (figurative) bar fight?

How do we hone our debating skills if we never face the enemy? They are the ones on the other side, not us. We have to take "devil's advocate" stances in the threads to get a decent argument. Its always better when you have a true adversary as your opponent.

I wrote this on the first page of that thread and it is still true today.Practice makes perfect and what better way to know thine enemy than by debating him and drawing out his best (worst) ideas. We hone our debating skills not by preaching to the choir but by participating in the free exchange of ideas.

When I used to post at the old Pathfinder boards, we convinced several persons of the disingenuousness of the anti-firearms movement. We did so by logical, truthful posting and submitting those instruments from reliable, established sources that supported our contentions -- and proved the lies to be exactly that.

Yes, there are those who will never be convinced as they are blinded by their own self-importance. No fact -- even the saving of their own life through the use of a firearm -- will convince them that firearms are good. They will not only tell you that instead of you defending yourself immediately with a firearm -- but, instead, wait for a man with a gun to get there to defend you -- they will use that same advise in their own lives; often at the forfeit of their life.

There are always newbies coming onto every thread out there and if we simply dismiss them all as unassailable, they will be.The anti-firearms group's mantra is "If it will save but a single life".

Ours should be "If it will convince but a single Liberal."

clubsoda22

December 29, 2003, 05:24 AM

For one thing, dean isn't all that anti-gun. Clark...i don't trust clark, and this is coming from a liberal, because i don't trust turncoats no matter which side they turned to.

Bush has taken away plenty in the way of personal freedoms...Given deans harsh attacks on the patriot act, i don't see him screwing us out of personal freedoms nearly as much as i think bush would if elected. Second term presidents are dangerous...they have nothing to loose. Just look at clinton.

Border

December 29, 2003, 07:09 AM

I read the other sites regularly. I believe it important to know your enemies position and what they are planning etc. I am also not againgst challenging my own position on some things.

iapetus

December 29, 2003, 08:13 AM

I'd like to have a good debate (or even just a debate) about gun control etc.

In general, I think it’s always a good idea to look at the other side of any argument, and to debate it with its supporters. Often you'll either discover a new way of thinking about something, or better confirm your initial position. And possibly even convert someone.

As for guns:

I used to be very anti-gun, and got into some very heated arguments on some bulletin boards, mainly with people who's sole debating tactic was to repeatedly shout "You're a Communist!", or "You're a moron!", or "You're a Communist Moron!". Which annoyed me, as I'm neither (but I admit to being naive).

So I stopped "debating" the issue, and ignored it for a while. And eventually got converted to pro gun by History, and seeing what was happening in the real world, rather than any actual debate. (I'm pretty sure I could have been converted sooner, if the arguments had been better presented).

So I decided to get involved in the debate again, and try to learn more about both sides of the argument (especially after recently watching Bowling for Columbine and hearing all the controversy about it).

Unfortunately, I couldn't find any "neutral" bulletin boards, and few "neutral articles", where both sided of the argument were presented.

It seemed most were either
* "Good" pro-gun sites, like this one
* "Bad" pro-gun (where everyone seems to be a paranoid nut whose only debating tactic is to insult anyone who disagrees with them)
* Or "bad" anti-gun (which typically use the same tactics as the "bad" pro-guns, and which often don't even consider having a debate).

So I'd like to have a good debate with some intelligent antis, or read some "sensible" anti literature, but there just doesn't seem to be any.

Which probably says a lot about their position.

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