it was the 2 year lifespan of the expansion that started strong and quickly went downhill.

not forgetting well of eternity was originally planned as a raid - which would've been awesome btw, also that abyssasl maw was panned to make firelands "more awesome"!

if blizz had actually pulled WoE and AM raids out of their butts, catalcysm would've been a very different expansion - but due to the rebuild of 1-60 and the amount of resources spent fine tuning and polishing that content, later patch content was late into development and did not make it to live servers, which damaged the game.

MoP is what cata would've been like if 1-60 hadn't been rehashed. unfortunately blizz thought archaeology would keep people busy, it worked for prolly 5% of the population, the other 95% got bored and logged off for the best part of 6 months.

cata had many issues, but i wouldn't of said the molten front was one of them, it actually gave you something to do when there was absolutely fuck all else to do. in fact so much of the whining in transition from cata to MoP is that people who started in cata expect to have 9 alts fully levelled and geared by now, because thats how low cata set the bar. there was nothing else to do other than level alts. i know i personally went from 5 max level toons (levelled over the course of 2 expansions) to having 10, nearly fully geared toons.

MoP is back to the proper pace of an RPG and some people have so little self control, they burn themselves out on content intended to last 18 months, not 2.

Frankly, the guy who started the thread back on US forum is silly. He complzins about dailies but has 9 toons at level 90. So yeah, if he wants to have them all decked in VP gear like in Cata, he should realize that is no longer Cata. :P

So you don't want challenge then, do you? If you have the gear, why bother playing at all? Raiding is challenging, perhaps that is why you choose to avoid raiding.

I don't choose to avoid raiding, but can't commit to a raiding guild because of my schedule. Now that LFR is in the game, most people that you could pug a raid with are now just doing LFR, especially on my low pop server, so pugging a raid at odd times is even harder than normal.

The core pieces of the content are still there: Quests, Dailies, Heroics, Raids, PvP. The issue I (and I assume others) face is that the challenging parts of gear progression are now either gated behind dailies or in heroic raids. I'm not going to yell at Blizzard to change anything, all I'm saying is that I preferred times when Heroics were rock hard (Shattered Halls for example). And as I don't find any of the content available to me fun, I have stopped playing. I'm not whining that they should change it to suit me.

My only real gripe is that I feel Challenge Modes are a wasted opportunity, because they could have been so much more than a time trial affair. They should have been stupidly difficult and could take hours, but would reward LFR quality gear. That's what I was really hoping for in MoP, and that's what's been missing since BC.

I'm not sure about WoW dying, but I fully agree with his situation. Dailies are boring. LFR is terrible. Heroics are too easy and boring. Challenge modes don't give you gear. PvP is a broken mess. If you can't raid in MoP, what FUN method of progressing your character is left? I didn't want to do dailies or LFR, so I stopped playing, because there was nothing else I could do at 90 to progress my character.

How about raiding? WoW is a PvE game, and everything else is just side stuff.
Also, what you describe did not change since LK (minus LFR).

Depends how you look at "dying". Does subs indicate if game is dying? yea they do. but wow is dying in a terms of activites of players. ppl are not playing wow even if they are paying for it. my irl list went from 20active ppl to like 2 active and 3 semi active now. and i know other 15 ppl are keeping sub active but they just dont log on and i guess they will stop paying it eventually but for these numbers they are still counted in.

ppl are just bored of the game. wich is ofc after playing it for 5+ years so nothing to wonder there. and they are not given any new things to do. yea some1 would think this is blasphemous but most of ppl who played now have all factions top up, got all mounts, did all dugeons and if they are not rading or doing top pvp they are done.

And we have greater problem there and that is community. Even if new players want to raid its freaking hard as hell. You want to get pug? no way jose cus you dont have achi, you want to apply to a guild same thing. if you want to pvp same thing.

So for me wow is dying. sadly i am tied with ap but it runs out very soon so i can burry this behemoth and go on

Yeah I have to wonder about their numbers as well. I've never seen so few people on the different servers I play on. The main server I've been on since TBC has only about 10% of the raiding guilds it used to have. All the cities are pretty much dead. None of my 30+ friends play anymore. They must be counting bot subs lol.

During TBC, I was in a super casual (as in, everyone was in greens, in Kara), to a pretty well progressed guild in BT. Yeah. I went from Kara --> BT. As a Frost Mage. Pre-nerf.

During Cata, my old guild died. I submitted an app to the second-best guild on the realm (the first was full of trolls and general asses, and I didn't want to associate with them), with the sole intention of finding a good home. I even said that I, in all likelihood, couldn't raid because of my real life schedule. They accepted me into the guild, and offered me a raid spot, still, even though I couldn't make it fit.

Point being, if you're good enough, offer the guild something, and are a "good person" (not a rage quitter, jerk, etc), then I don't foresee any problems finding a guild or a raiding spot.

@OP: This is common sense. It bothers me how many people I see that claim they are being "forced" to do dailies. I don't see how you are being forced; at best you're "forced" if you're in a world first or something like that, but I fail to see how they're anything but optional if you're not top-tier progression.

Show me where it says they have 11million. Don't be ignorant; if there were 11 million subs, they'd show 11 million subs. A bigger number is a bigger number, and it's better marketing to show 11 than 10.

The problem with the internet is parallel to its greatest achievement: it has given the little man an outlet where he can be heard. Most of the time however, the little man is a little man because he is not worth hearing.
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think most of you are skipping quite huge problem. you CANT raid if you allready didnt raid. no1 will take you. i have seen pugs or even guilds spaming for hours for specific role and wouldnt take me cus i didnt have achi even tho i am very well geared.

LFR and normal modes have the same achievement. If you haven't even cleared LFR then you can't be too "very" well geared. And I highly doubt any server is already pugging hard modes and requiring said pugs to have the hard mode achievements.

I guess the problem with MMOs has always been how do we get people to keep logging in and paying up

WoW is getting really old after all it released back in 2004 back then PS2 games seemed like the shit

which other game franchise has lasted this long with the same game engine and gameplay?

Dailies seemed like a cheap way to get people to log in but it seems to have backfired casual (i dont mean baddies) raiders have found they cant progress without doing a shit load of pointless dailies to buy gear they need and are feeling burnt out

Now i know back in the day grinding was part of the game but i guess the new generation of wow players just want to raid and not grind to get progression IDK what the answer is

At the end of the day the nerds who would grind endlessly for shit are growing up and dont have the time for it and the new generation CBA with grinding

Because people want to put on a tabard, spam 5mans till exalted and then complain there is nothing to do. Human psycholology ftl.

People want options. Many posters (myself included) made very decent suggestions ranging from Daily rep cap in dungeons to currency that can be used to buy rep up to a certain cap every day.

The fact that according to Zarphym Blizzard are considering such options is enough to stem the hate towards Blizzard. The real questions is when will we get these options? Will they come next expansion like the class balance we heard so much about before 25th of September?

Right back at you, and you have the audacity to come in here and bash that guy for having common sense, dailies = chores. Even if that guy is completely off his rocker, he is still correct, the game is in a horrible state, dailies are part of the problem, as are easily content players such as you OP.

I have two characters that have cleared MSV and one that is 4/6 in HoF(normal) and I have not done one single daily after my first round of them, because I realized they're not required and it wasn't fun.

Also, the guy who he's talking about was blaming Blizzard for taking time away from his family because he "had" to do dailies on all nine of his level 90s. If you think that is a rational way of thinking and not just him passing the blame for his own lack of self control and inability to prioritize then I don't know what to tell you.

I agree with your analysis of the situation OP. I personally like dailies and I love that there is so much to do this expansion. I actually have a reason to log on everyday again unlike over half of cata (and even the last little part of wrath).