I'm an atheist. My entire family is very strict Catholic. Most of my friends were made while attending catholic schools growing up, and who lived in my suburban town that was mostly Catholic. The reactions to me saying I am an atheist (which I have no problem discussing openly, but not unprompted) is split, almost evenly, between scorn,contempt, and pity ("You have no idea what you're talking about, but god loves you anyway") and acceptance, though curious. The latter parties at least allow the conversation on the topic to progress naturally without any defense or critique either way.

The frustrating part comes when the first group brings the question around to morality. It inevitably happens when someone gets comfortable discussing religion with a non-believer. "How can you know you are being a good person without a template to compare your life to?" Variations of this question have been posed to me only a handful of times, but each time I have grown exponentially more frustrated with the person asking. I've stopped trying to answer to it, and have become increasingly more prone to responses asking why they need the promise of reward and threat of punishment (heaven and hell) in order to do the right thing.

Anyhow, I think donating to someone who is an atheist simply because they are an atheist is divisive. It doesn't sit well. The "us vs. them" mentality that some atheists live by (also encouraged by the bible in passages about judgement day and the like) is nonsense. But I understand the atheists' (my own) frustration that ultimately comes at the end of the argument. The occasional antagonistic religious person says something along the lines of, "Well, I guess we'll see who is right at the end of it all, won't we?" This line reminds me that I will never be able to gloat. Being an atheist affords you no winner's circle. There's no venue in which to say "I told you so." But they usually smile smugly upon saying this and imagine themselves sitting at the right hand of god, up in the clouds, with rays of sunshine, angels with harps, etc, while I toil beneath them somewhere.

I think that's accurate. If your God is unfalsifiable, then in practical terms your experience is no different than the atheist's. You will never be able to identify your God because there are no attributes that would distinguish it from any other entity. You may see a large powerful being snapping his fingers and creating planets but how would you know the being is God? It could just be a very powerful creature you hadn't thought of. Your God could just as easily be a rock on the side of a stream biding his time.

Waldo Pepper:I seriously doubt she will face any repercussions for being an atheist in Ok, She might get some churches going out to minister to her and her family but that is about it.

I really hope not but I live in a FAR more liberal area than OK and I just keep my mouth shut about religion/politics. Hell, I'm not even a full fledged atheist and although I don't think Jebus was the son of god (in the magical/mystical sense) I still think it's quite possible, even probable he or someone like him at the time existed and that he was a pretty damned awesome guy. The thing is some people are unreasonable and even if there is only a small percentage of them all it takes is one unreasonable person to ruin your life if they decide to. The fact they are raising money for her is nice but personally I'm not sure I'd consider that a fair trade off for this kind of national exposure. Then again I'm not dumb enough to talk to reporters. Seriously why do people give those leeches the time of day? They very rarely have good intentions and once the spin machine kicks up bad bad things can happen. Not worth it just to get my ugly mug "on 'da tayvay".

gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Techhell:Evilhippie: stryed: I can't believe that, in this day and age, there are still atheists and believers.It takes a lot more courage to say "I don't know, but let's find out", and to constantly juggle possible hypotheses on existence while we can.

I think you'll find that most atheists define themselves as not being able to disprove the existence of a god or gods, but rather say that the evidence presented makes it highly improbably they exist. In fact much like most religious feel about just about any other god than the one(s) they happen to believe in.I think in that way many atheists actually have been on a long journey down the path you describe as "I don't know, but let's find out". In fact studies show that atheists as a group generally know more about religion and the religious scriptures than those who define themselves as religious. I think this is directly linked to a more inquisitive nature among most atheists compared to most religious.

I think you're right... except in the same way that most Christians are pretty much "Do unto others" sorts of Christians. Which most people quite like, because they're quite willing to say "You're an atheist? Could you watch my kids on Sunday night while my husband and I are at a church function? We'll watch yours on Tuesday night in return?". Most atheists are quite willing to say that they can't disprove the existence of the supernatural and leave it at that.

The atheists that we generally hear from in the media are the atheists who say "There Is No God! You're Stupid For Believing In God!" just like we generally hear the Christians who say "Did you just say "Happy Holidays"? STOP OPPRESSING ME!". Nice, polite, well reasoned and reasonable people just don't make the 24hr news cycle, sort of like how only the most flamboyant of the posters here get things heated. The ones who are reasonable and polite we just read, nod in agreement, maybe press "Smart", and go on. It's the ones we think of as idiots that we reply to.

...

I don't think this is fair. The argument that atheists are really making when you see them on the news is, "Look, people can believe whatever they like, but the Governor should not make a governmental decree that all citizens should pray for rain." Check out the Freedom From Religion Foundation. All they want is for the Establishment Clause to be respected and they get and report on a ton of unpleasantness from religious people.

YouAreIncorrect:gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Huh. So what you're saying is that the world operates as it would if there were no god at all.

YouAreIncorrect:gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.

Via Infinito:YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving.

gimmegimme:YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Huh. So what you're saying is that the world operates as it would if there were no god at all.

Since I'm atheist yes I would say that. Doesn't make the quote any less stupid.

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.

YouAreIncorrect:Via Infinito: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving.

I've honestly never met a person who identified as "religious" who did not see the world through the lens of their religion. In the Christian example - the one we often see cited - their god is thanked for all good, through his omnipotence (and by the way - he must be really relieved he no longer has to worry about fixing games for that Tebow dude)... but they never seem to hold their god accountable for the bad stuff that, if he's all-powerful, he either created or allowed. Why? Because God is all good. So, it's a model of ingrained circular reasoning, and something that is, indeed, drilled into believers by many means. That's just one.bub

I'm not sure if anyone's touched on this yet, but I'd like to touch on the boldiness. You say "they" as if ALL believers do that. You'll find that the majority of us (at least the ones I know, and I'm in TEXAS. Grew up in a VERY religious town and didn't believe growing up) understand that bad and good things have to happen. We can't put God into a box and say "these are His behaviors and this is how He should act in each scenario" because God is not finite. His ways are incomprehensible to me, and I've stopped trying to ... I guess... figure out what will happen based on certain factors. Sure, I make educated decisions based on my surroundings, but I know that there will always be something I didn't think of that could happen at any time to steer me back to whatever path was written out for me.

I don't help people because I feel I'm supposed to or I'll go to Hell. I do it because I feel a pull within to do it. Like I'm supposed to be doing it, even if it's dumb and it sucks sometimes. That's how all of the people of faith I know live as well.

I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

I know the argument. God works in mysterious ways. So, if you aren't going to hold him accountable for bad stuff (you did this), why do you thank him for good stuff (you gave me this)? My point ( and it's early for me too) is, that pull you feel within is not a god. It's humanity. And the belief that there is a god writing out your path and all the rest is harmful not because we disagree, but because it trains people not to take responsibility on a deep level (god has a plan for me, what me worry) and keeps people trapped in that world of mythology. Which many of us have left, and are really tired of being dragged back into.

Look at it this way - unless you worship Zeus, Freya, Anansi, Ganesh, and all the rest, then you're an atheist, too. I just believe in one fewer god than you.

Via Infinito:YouAreIncorrect: Via Infinito: YouAreIncorrect: gimmegimme:I don't know. Early morning Saturday ramblings, but I hope that sheds some light on the difference between your majority of Christians and mine. :)

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That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

Most Americans aren't the all-loving omnipotent creator of the Universe either.

Anyone who has even a passing familiarity with the bible would know that god is not all-loving.

So you're contradicting... yourself?

Perhaps you could point out the contradiction. Malevolent is defined as "Having or showing a wish to do evil to others." Are you saying that being not all-loving means you wish evil on others?

I'm a Christian, and I think it's completely rude to make assumptions about the religious beliefs of other people. It's a hundred times as rude to do so on TV. This shouldn't be about pitting one belief vs. another. This should be about Wolf being a dick to someone who just narrowly escaped tragedy.

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.

Once again, you're adding attributes to the christian god that has never been claimed. Omnipotent yes, but all good? Where is that claimed?

Techhell:LasersHurt: The Billdozer: Its important because you want it to be. I'll give you a life tip: Although discrimination of all types exists, more and more people are fine tuning it to discriminate against one type... Assholes. Blitzer was an asshole for leading the interview this way and asking a loaded question, the lady was an asshole for having to have her 15 seconds of internet neckbeard fame for proclaiming her non-faith which had jack shiat to do with the situation, and Stanhope is an asshole because he's using this opportunity to further his own shiatty agenda and career.

So you are simply ignorant and dismissive.

You must be new here, LasersHurt. Welcome to Fark! Yes indeed, the persona of "The Billdozer" is quite ignorant and dismissive about many things, this being just one of a litany of examples! But he can be so much fun to read and wonder "Just how much of this stuff does his creator actually believe, how much has he come to believe, and how many times is he sitting at a keyboard googling "Crazy Things People Say", copying and pasting then changing enough words to not be a direct plagiarism of someone else?"

And, of course, in the end it doesn't matter what the answer is because it can be so much fun to pinch the persona's cheeks and troll with "Who's a cute little troll? Who's a cute little troll! You are! You are!"

DoctorCal:I think it's quite possible that Wolf is patronizing her, and hoping for a highly emotional, affirmative response just for the entertainment value.

I mean, he's Jewish, so...thank the Lord, thank the Lord doesn't seem like it would be his sincere reaction.

? Because Jews haven't heard of God?

If you watch the video, the first time he asks her she says "yuh." After he presser her, "Do you thank the Lord?" she says, "Actually, I'm an atheist." That's not attention whoring. There is somebody downtown with a bullhorn right now berating people for not having the loud person's identical beliefs. That's attention whoring. I'm going to give her a donation just for getting Wolf to STFU with his assumptions about her.There was also the "lost dog" woman, who when the interviewer asked "Are you able to comprehend yet what happened here?" and she said "I know exactly what happened here."I have to admit that these two women gave me a lot more respect for the people of Oklahoma. No tears and self-pity, just straightforward plain speaking.

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.

Once again, you're adding attributes to the christian god that has never been claimed. Omnipotent yes, but all good? Where is that claimed?

1 John 4:7-8Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I was raised protestant, and our preacher was very big on god being all-loving and all good. Of course during the ages Christians have bickered over who or what God is, as they still do. And there's definitely many examples of worship of a rather vengeful and capricious god, of which you could find many quotes in the bible to base of off.But if you seriously are saying that Christian preachers do not preach of an all-loving, and benevolent god, I don't think we are from the same planet. Certainly you can pretty much find bible quotes to "support" the claim of a malignant god.

What would be really cool is if she took the money and donated it to the rest of her community as well. She seems like the type of person awesome enough to do that. May empathy from other humans or god help these people who are suffering, whichever we need to believe (or both).

That's such a stupid quote. Saying god is malevolent because he doesn't prevent every bad thing makes no sense. Most Americans could help many starving Africans by donating their money, but they don't and not doing so doesn't mean they wish evil upon them.

You are in all seriousness comparing the flawed mammal, that is callled man, to a being of infinite goodness and power? Because either you are limiting the god-being to the confinements of human behaviourism or you grant mankind the same expectancy that you would bestow upon a divine, omnipotent and infinitely good being.Either way, I think you are confused with the point the quote is making.

Once again, you're adding attributes to the christian god that has never been claimed. Omnipotent yes, but all good? Where is that claimed?

1 John 4:7-8Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.

I was raised protestant, and our preacher was very big on god being all-loving and all good. Of course during the ages Christians have bickered over who or what God is, as they still do. And there's definitely many examples of worship of a rather vengeful and capricious god, of which you could find many quotes in the bible to base of off.But if you seriously are saying that Christian preachers do not preach of an all-loving, and benevolent god, I don't think we are from the same planet. Certainly you can pretty much find bible quotes to "support" the claim of a malignant god.

When I said who claims it I meant from the bible (or god) itself, not preachers, but fair enough with providing the quote. My take on that is actions speak louder than words, and god certainly isn't portrayed as all loving through actions.

I'm simply saying he would fit more in a father figure role, where sometimes you have to let bad crap happen even if you can prevent it.

When I said who claims it I meant from the bible (or god) itself, not preachers, but fair enough with providing the quote. My take on that is actions speak louder than words, and god certainly isn't portrayed as all loving through actions.

I'm simply saying he would fit more in a father figure role, where sometimes you have to let bad crap happen even if you can prevent it.

Benevolent Misanthrope:The impact of getting Rebecca and her family properly housed by the atheist community will do far more good than sitting in bars or chat rooms mocking people of faith. Like religion, free-thinking will be more easily spread through compassion and decency.

Unfortunately, those servile f*ckwits have an answer for that one. "It's just God acting in His own way, even through those atheists, isn't He clever!" they'll bleat. There are none so blind as those who will not see. Religious people are incapable of that kind of rational thought. Seriously.

If you are depending on atheist compassion and deceny to spread atheisim.... the future of religion is very bright indeed. Atheists are not self aware enough to realize that their arrogant self important pathological behavior is a bigger turn off to the merely non-religious than to theists.

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom:lol at the thought of this woman being in danger because she's an atheist in Oklahoma. Some of you weirdos really need to get out more

Seriously, that's some prejudice against middle Americans right there. I'm guessing most of the people who are saying this are from the Coastal areas (minus the South). I swear, they think that middle Americans go around all day barefoot in overalls, looking for people to lynch in the name of God.

(You want to see how Coastal Americans are so wrapped up in their world view, Middle Americans? Tell them one simple thing. Tell them that you've never seen the ocean and watch their minds be blown. Their reaction will be, "What? You've never seen the ocean. How can you've never seen the ocean?!" It will never occur to them that, of course, you've seen the ocean since you live in a landlocked state.)

I've heard things like this as well as "People would have no morality if it wasn't for religion" arguments from religious people way more times than I can count. I have a very tolerant non fundamentalist Christian friend ask me once how I would instil morals in my children without religion. She wasn't trying to be mean about it, just asking because we were talking about religion/atheism. She's one of the nice ones.

Dude, chill. Christian's tend to use the Bible as a study book on how to behave; whether or not you personally agree with the behavioral formula or it's practice is irrelevant. I'm pretty sure she was simply asking what framework you will use. Jumping to the conclusion that your "non fundamentalist friend" is incapable of seeing any future for your children other than base amorality without religion clearly shows that she may not be the one who needs tolerance.

Nabb1:Benevolent Misanthrope: Nabb1: the fact that you spew hatred and vile and misinformation regarding people who do not share your worldview with the narrow-minded evangelicals I encountered growing up in parts of South Carolina. You're really not that much different when it comes down to your basic disdain for most of humanity.

Wow. Okay...

I'll just bow out here. You're not making sense and it's obvious you're upset.

I will say this: I don't disdain humanity. I disdain people who take advantage of other people and who indoctrinate them to be taken advantage of. And I disdain people who refuse to think.

On second thought, with that last one, perhaps I do disdain most humans. Hmm.

Sure, people who don't see the world the way you do just refuse to think. No, you're not prejudiced at all.

And this is why I have him tagged as terrified white man. Never saw a person see more frightening bigotry against whites, christians and men... almost like he lives in a slightly different existence than the real one.

Doug Stanhope? I have heard of that unfunny piece of crap since The Man Show went off the air. Way to make a political statement out of a tragedy Mr. Stanhope and every other neckbeard atheist mouthbreather cheering this on.

I think that's accurate. If your God is unfalsifiable, then in practical terms your experience is no different than the atheist's. You will never be able to identify your God because there are no attributes that would distinguish it from any other entity. You may see a large powerful being snapping his fingers and creating planets but how would you know the being is God? It could just be a very powerful creature you hadn't thought of. Your God could just as easily be a rock on the side of a stream biding his time.

It's more that if you use religious rules to dictate yoir actions, that's not a real spiritual communion with God, and therefore atheistic. The only way to really connect with the divine is through personal reflection and experience, often called spirituality. That's why I call overtly religious people out as atheists.

part of the problem:If you are depending on atheist compassion and deceny to spread atheisim.... the future of religion is very bright indeed. Atheists are not self aware enough to realize that their arrogant self important pathological behavior is a bigger turn off to the merely non-religious than to theists.

That projection is so massive, I had to be sure I was laying in bed and not at the local Drive-In.

I think the bigger issue here is that Wolf Blitzer assumes everyone is Oklahoma is a bible thumping moron that he can goad into a paroxysms of religious fervor by asking them if they thank the lerd for not being dead today, so he can get it on camera.

Okies should tell Blitzer to suck a bag of dicks every time he shows up on what's left of their porch.

So I'm guessing the ones whining about donations to this lady "because" she's atheist don't whine about people being persecuted for their Christian beliefs in Muslim countries simply "because" they're Christian?