hey jr, hobby is coming back, any chance on a new hobgoblin article? the characters run recently ended in spidergirl, then theres the whole mess with menace and the green goblin, would love to see a article on all these recent developments

stevenkof wrote:hey jr, hobby is coming back, any chance on a new hobgoblin article? the characters run recently ended in spidergirl, then theres the whole mess with menace and the green goblin, would love to see a article on all these recent developments

I am sooooooooooooo far behind that a new HobGoblin article isn't even on the radar. But good question! That's one of my more popular series....Menace and the Green Goblin are definately in some of my outlines. I 'm still trying to finish up 2007. The next 3 parts are all > 50% done, but my printer/scanner crapped out on me after 7 years (I got a new one, but it's still in its box), and my son has football practice 2-4 times a week (not to mention he played 5 games last weekend), so the old man is kinda bogged down right now....

thanks for the reply, menace seems to have dropped off the radar atm and Osborn has a book coming (i think?) so i wouldn't be surprised to see all this somehow play into the hobgoblin, ill go out on a limb for everyone out there and say it now, hobgoblin will most likely not be Kingsley, they seem to have no idea what do with his character, and really, he does not seem to have a place in the current stories. Now hobgoblin, the persona, well that's another story! I actually didn't mind menace too much, when the character first appeared i really thought a lot could have been done, and we may have a really a true green goblin for the next decade, but alas, that did not happen, as marvel seems to be obsessed with having spider man's stories and character constantly sent back to to 1976...

Actually I think the problem of snapping back to 1976 goes beyond Spidey and really hits the philosophy of Marvel as a whole ever since the early 90s ended. In the Shooter-Defalco editorial regimes there was a real feel of progression in the Marvel Universe whereas now its more about playing the archetypes that were established in the 60s and 70s.

But hears some Spidey specific examples.

Peter was married, almost a father, and had found respectable adult jobs as both a scientist in Oregon (during Clone Saga) and a teacher. Now however he's back to being semi-employed at best and barely able to make rent in his bachelor pad just like the 70s.

Aunt May was dead then after she came back she knew Peter was Spidey and treating him like an adult. Now she's alive, ignorant and and worrying if Peter is taking care of himself while cooking wheat cakes again. Mind you this is after Slott had Peter's mindwipe explained that all the prior memories return if you learn the secret again. Considering well-written the Peter-May scenes by JMS were about how sharing the secret had really strengthened the Peter-May relationship there’s no logical reason for Peter to keep the truth from May now except for Marvel’s obsession with the 70s.

Harry Osborn was married with a son and for the most part had clean-up his life. Then later he was dead. He also knew Peter's secret. Now he's back from the dead, ignorant, divorced with as far as we can see no contact with his son and back to emotionally fragile addict he was in the 70s.

Felicia and Peter had matured over the years and while still hung-up on Peter had become perhaps the most trusted ally of Peter and MJ during their marriage (Notable examples Peter relying on Cat to fight Scorpion while he was paralyzed in the 320s, MJ going to Cat when Peter was missing after losing a fight to Silvermane, Cat willing to break Goblin out of Jail for Peter so his hands are clean in the Miller Shush arc). She had also found a legitimate way to earn money both as PI and a registered superhero. Now she’s a thief again, and she doesn’t want Peter to take the mask off again, just like in the 70s.

Sandman had a cancer scare and decided to straighten out his life to the point that he was later offered Avengers membership. He also had a perfectly legitimate way to make money by working for Silver Sable, which he did frequently throughout the 90s in both the Spidey titles and Sable’s own book. Now he’s a crook again because that he was in the 70s. And really there is no other reason for it. Spidey has another villain in Hydroman, who has similar enough powers to fill the same role as Sandman in the rogue’s gallery for any story you would want to write--and Thor has a villain in Quicksand with the exact same powers if you really wanted Spidey to fight someone made of sand (who of course is not being used in his book anymore since she’s not from the 70s).

Vulture in the 90s used some device to youthen himself. I stopped reading comics for 10 years due to clone saga but I noticed by the time Miller story came out Vulture was once again an old man just like he was in the 70s.

And in a character who is a semi-frequent star of Spidey’s book but also part of larger marvel to show this problem is not just endemic to Spidey, let’s look at Human Torch who like Spidey was married in the late 1980s (in his case to Alicia Masters), and as a result got to mature a bit and stop pulling juvenile pranks on the Thing, and acting like a teenager. Only then Marvel decided he never actually was married to Alicia (instead it was a skrull). And then he tried to work out his relationship with his skrull wife, but of-course then that writer (Defalco) left the title and the skrull-wife disappeared and was never mentioned again since she’s not from the 70s, while Alicia could then resume her relationship with the Thing from the 70s, and Torch went back to giving Thing hotfoots while living for nothing more than showing off his powers and cars while dating shallow babes just like in the 70s.

And I’m sure we could another dozen examples if we had too. An easy one is the villains/supporting cast. In that except for Venom and Felicia no other villain/cast member after the mid-1970s has survived to be a recurring character and/or portrayed in crossover media such as cartoons/video games/etc, once the initial writer of said character has departed the title. Are we really to believe that none of these characters in 30 years despite Spidey having an average of 3-4 books that entire time is worthwhile? And even Venom and Felicia eventually had regressive character arcs since their debut and have been used a lot less in the Brand New Day era than the 60s characters. And this is more or less the same problem you see for any major Marvel hero (I could easily write this exact same article for Captain America and the Avengers)

not to start a thread drift, but i suspect the reason for all this is because these writers were kids/teens in that era, and are now grown up, therefore we get these kind of stories. I suspect in a few years you will start seeing the 80's era make a return, then the 90's and so forth (oh no...POUCHES!)

stevenkof wrote:jr , for the love of god, after asm 649, we need you now more than ever!

A few more comments like that and I might even commission some tatoos of me and distribute them...

I will resist much in the way of commentary until the arc plays out....but even then....you have to realize that (hopefully I can say this without spoilers) one of the characters involved has been proven to be a master of duplicity and misdirection. That said, it does seem that the other character involved HAS indeed been totally and needlessly ruined....

i agree with you mostly jr, however given the direction lately, i would venture to say, at least for the moment and as far as this story and its writers are concerned, whats done is done. Sure a future writer could easily undo it, but well see.

Heh you sound like me when I did the exact same thing in e-mailing Madgoblin about it. I'd literally beg Madgoblin to just skip into an article just on this given how ripe it is for it to be posted. But I gotta ask you Madgoblin. Do you really think given all the evidence out there that Kingsley is truly dead?

Zechs wrote:Heh you sound like me when I did the exact same thing in e-mailing Madgoblin about it. I'd literally beg Madgoblin to just skip into an article just on this given how ripe it is for it to be posted. But I gotta ask you Madgoblin. Do you really think given all the evidence out there that Kingsley is truly dead?

Well, to be perfectly honest, the evidence as presented means nothing one way or the other. Kingsley is truly dead unless and until someone decides that they want to use him again, and that's the truth.

Zechs wrote:Heh you sound like me when I did the exact same thing in e-mailing Madgoblin about it. I'd literally beg Madgoblin to just skip into an article just on this given how ripe it is for it to be posted. But I gotta ask you Madgoblin. Do you really think given all the evidence out there that Kingsley is truly dead?

Well, to be perfectly honest, the evidence as presented means nothing one way or the other. Kingsley is truly dead unless and until someone decides that they want to use him again, and that's the truth.

True, but there are so many holes and given this is a man who is almost up there with Nick Fury and Dr. Doom in sending out dupes of himself. Not to mention there's just a few inconsistencies with how it was all set up with things being too convenient. Heck even Spider Fan entry refuses to acknowledge the fact Kingsley is dead.