Does anyone have a shred of doubt as to how this would have ended if not for the citizen who recorded it?

It would still be hard to explain how a man running away and with shots in his back represented a clear and present danger to the policeman. That said, there's no doubt that the video evidence is the reason the police department has acted so quickly in firing its employee.

Isn't that exactly what happened in the Michael Brown shooting?

No.

Brown was never shot in the back.

Brown's fingerprints were on the gun and his DNA in the police car.

The Justice Department determined that most of the initial "witnesses" to the shooting had only heard rumors about the shooting and simply spread the rumors themselves; of the few that actually saw the shooting, they testified that Brown did rush the police officer and did not have his hands up.

The Justice Department stated quite clearly that the officer acted in self-defense and that there was no physical evidence or credible eyewitness testimony that showed Michael Brown was trying to surrender or shot while fleeing.

But I digress. What was the whole point about "HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT!" if you don't put your hands up and surrender when a police officer has pulled you over? Yes, the cop should do life in prison (if not the death penalty) but what is it about certain people that they just can't simply let themselves be taken into custody so that they can live to fight another day? If you fear the cops as much as you say you do, doesn't running away from them and resisting arrest only increase the risk you face that you'll end up on the wrong end of a deadly altercation?

Jack WadeChief Executive

Posts : 2014Member Since : 2011-03-15Location : Uranus

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:25 pm

Gravity's Silhouette wrote:

But I digress. What was the whole point about "HANDS UP DON'T SHOOT!" if you don't put your hands up and surrender when a police officer has pulled you over? Yes, the cop should do life in prison (if not the death penalty) but what is it about certain people that they just can't simply let themselves be taken into custody so that they can live to fight another day? If you fear the cops as much as you say you do, doesn't running away from them and resisting arrest only increase the risk you face that you'll end up on the wrong end of a deadly altercation?

This is an oversimplification of the problem. The real problem is that police officers are far more likely to use deadly force on blacks than they are on whites.

Gravity's SilhouetteChief Executive

Posts : 3920Member Since : 2011-04-16Location : Inside my safe space

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:32 pm

Jack Wade wrote:

This is an oversimplification of the problem. The real problem is that police officers are far more likely to use deadly force on blacks than they are on whites.

I won't even argue that. I'll just stipulate for the sake of conversation that if you already know that you are more likely to be scrutinized by a police officer if you are black (than Jew, Asian, Southeast Asian, White) why would you then go and make things worse by running away from the police officer? You know you aren't going to get away. They're not going to just give up and quit chasing you.

And why does every single one of these black men that get shot by a police/transit officer inevitably have an extensive arrest record? Metaphorically speaking, it's like shooting fist in a barrel.

FlushCorrespondent

Posts : 94Member Since : 2014-08-05Location : Belgium

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:28 pm

So - the victim of the bully should stop being just so open to that bullying? Yes, it's the victim's fault, isn't it? How irresponsible of them. I wonder if they've ever thought about just stopping being so provocatively black? That might work.

Quote :

And why does every single one of these black men that get shot by a police/transit officer inevitably have an extensive arrest record?

You've answered that yourself with

Quote :

if you already know that you are more likely to be scrutinized by a police officer if you are black

This story came and went last month and I didn't mention it because I was trying to let the "racism" thread die, however...

Mrs. Henson, who is on the smash-hit show EMPIRE, had made a statement to the press that her son would be going to an all/majority black college because her son had been "racially profiled" in or around USC by a police officer. Once the Los Angeles Times got hold of the dashboard camera, the truth was so startlingly different than what her son told her, that it forced Mrs. Henson to make a public apology.

In both Mrs.Henson's case and in the case of Walter Scott, video footage helped get the truth out. But I believe that Walter Scott's shooting feeds into a sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Young blacks, particularly males, are taught not only to fear the police, but never to cooperate with them. It's a wonder any of them go into law enforcement.

I remember asking an employee what his bracelet stood for (this was almost 10 years ago) and he said, and I quote: "No snitching to the po-po." I had a feeling I knew what the "po-po" was, but I wanted him to tell me. "The police". Not only will he not cooperate ever with law enforcement if he sees anything wrong, but there's actually a bracelet out there that he proudly wears to signify his unreasonable position. Remember "Snitches end up in stitches".

This was brought up during the George Zimmerman murder trial. One of the reasons why I believed Zimmerman (at the time; not so sure now) was that of all the people on the phone between Trayvon, Rachel Genteal, and Zimmerman, George was the only person who bothered to call the police. When Trayvon thought he was being followed he didn't call the police. And when the phone went dead and she never heard from Trayvon, she didn't bother to call the police either. I doubted whether Zimmerman would really have called the police if he was intending to kill Trayvon.

So, ultimately, because there is a sizable element in the black community that refuses to engage with the police, there will continue to be friction between them and the cops, some of which will end in preventable death, and occasionally murder (like Walter Scott).

I also agree with the overall premise that there is something going on in our society where we have governmental forces whose responses are disproportionate to the crime.

Makeshift PythonChief Executive

Posts : 6999Member Since : 2011-03-14Location : Up

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:36 pm

Frankly, I can't blame anyone for not trusting the police. Trust should be earned, not given away, and there have been too many rotten apples spoiling everything for everyone. It's no DRAGNET. Might as well assign a camera installed on every cop's uniform so their every move can be watched, which has apparently made a big different in several forces who've adopted them. If they don't like it, tough shit, we're paying them to be professional at their work.

bitchcraftChief Executive

Posts : 3118Member Since : 2011-03-28Location : I don't know what things will be like in 2 years. I don't have 2020 vision.

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:39 pm

Makeshift Python wrote:

Frankly, I can't blame anyone for not trusting the police. Trust should be earned, not given away, and there have been too many rotten apples spoiling everything for everyone. It's no DRAGNET. Might as well assign a camera installed on every cop's uniform so their every move can be watched, which has apparently made a big different in several forces who've adopted them. If they don't like it, tough shit, we're paying them to be professional at their work.

Over here we're also having an issue with the cops.

They arrested a suspect, took him to the police station, and doused him with boiling water.

He was black. And the cops are black too. There is black-on-black brutality including the fuzz.

12 of them (the dirty dozen?) are now facing charges.

Gravity's SilhouetteChief Executive

Posts : 3920Member Since : 2011-04-16Location : Inside my safe space

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:18 pm

bitchcraft wrote:

Makeshift Python wrote:

Frankly, I can't blame anyone for not trusting the police. Trust should be earned, not given away, and there have been too many rotten apples spoiling everything for everyone. It's no DRAGNET. Might as well assign a camera installed on every cop's uniform so their every move can be watched, which has apparently made a big different in several forces who've adopted them. If they don't like it, tough shit, we're paying them to be professional at their work.

Over here we're also having an issue with the cops.

They arrested a suspect, took him to the police station, and doused him with boiling water.

He was black. And the cops are black too. There is black-on-black brutality including the fuzz.

12 of them (the dirty dozen?) are now facing charges.

I *think* some of the cops who beat the suspect fleeing on horseback were black:

Body cameras will help some police officers and it will help some people who were brutalized by the police, but it will never stop police beatings. A helicopter was 20 feet above this melee and still the officers beat the crap out of this suspect (who is not black, by the way; just sayin'...). Maybe the adrenaline is so powerful at this point that it simply can't be stopped, but police have been the subject of dashboard cams, cell phones and video recorders for 2 decades now and the incidents only seem to be increasing.

StaugustCorrespondent

Posts : 99Member Since : 2014-11-07Location : Is it safe?

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sat Apr 11, 2015 6:59 pm

Makeshift Python wrote:

Staugust wrote:

Erica Ambler wrote:

Staugust wrote:

Why do people run away from the police if they have nothing to hide?

Maybe they don't like being tasered.

But the police don't taser someone who surrenders to them, at least not normally.

Police also don't shoot unarmed people in the back several times then plant false evidence, at least not normally...

Yes, I understand that but why run away in the first place if you have done nothing wrong? Or even if you have?

Last edited by Staugust on Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

SaloméChief Executive

Posts : 3030Member Since : 2011-03-17

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:39 pm

Whether or not Trayvon had a hand in his own demise, it is pretty clear that Zimmerman's penchant for escalating situations with the use of violence was also a contributing factor to the boys death. He also ignored the dispatchers request to leave the situation to the responding officers and no longer pursue the boy.

Hence why he has found himself in trouble on several occasions even after his acquittal.

StaugustCorrespondent

Posts : 99Member Since : 2014-11-07Location : Is it safe?

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:33 pm

I don't condone this murder at all by the way but I just think running away from the police is not the wisest of things to do, especially in the United States where the police are known for their trigger happy nature.

Xenia93Experienced Correspondent

Posts : 247Member Since : 2013-04-18Location : The Disco Volante

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:06 am

I would argue that it's not wise to run from the police. With that said, running away unarmed justifies a foot chase and a taser or some other form of non-lethal subduing. Not shooting them in the back several times. Worst part is the cop probably would have gotten away with it had he not been videotaped.

As Python said, all cops should have to wear little GoPro-equivalent cameras. Better for everyone.

Whether or not Trayvon had a hand in his own demise, it is pretty clear that Zimmerman's penchant for escalating situations with the use of violence was also a contributing factor to the boys death. He also ignored the dispatchers request to leave the situation to the responding officers and no longer pursue the boy.

Hence why he has found himself in trouble on several occasions even after his acquittal.

I totally agree. But I've asked myself repeatedly if I had the case to do all over again with the same known facts would I have come up with a different verdict and I still say I would acquit him. I can't help what he's done since, and if he intended to kill Trayvon and truly got away with murder then eventually he'll do something else that will finally land him in the jail he rightly belongs in, but for right now we're all going to have to be patient.

bitchcraftChief Executive

Posts : 3118Member Since : 2011-03-28Location : I don't know what things will be like in 2 years. I don't have 2020 vision.

Subject: Re: The Issue of Racism in America Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:18 am

Black Lives Matter is nothing but a front for two-faced, double standard racist blacks. They should be on the negative list the same way white hate groups are.

900 shootings in the first 100 days of the year in Chicago, most of them black-on-black gang violence, yet BLM does nothing. The loud and clear message is it's okay for blacks to kill other blacks and destroy black families and everyone else must know their place and not say a fucking thing.

But have a Trump rally in Chicago and they come out snarling because he's "racist."

After 8 years of Obama, if the best a black youth can do is join a black gang and shoot other blacks instead of getting a higher education and getting a real job, then honestly, fuck you.