* I watched the debate last night between Joe Walsh and Tammy Duckworth and this part stood out for me…

Walsh described himself as ‘Pro-life without exception.”

He said he did not believe in an exception for rape and incest because — “there’s still a life there.” He then added: “the life of the woman is not an exception.” Walsh nicked Duckworth for having the complete opposite view.

“I’m pro-choice without restriction, and here though, Mr. Walsh … what he said — not for rape, incest or life of the mother — he would let a woman die rather than give her, than to give the doctor the option to save her life.”

Walsh interrupted her, all the while saying: “That’s not fair.”

After the debate, Walsh later explained his remark that the life of the woman is not an exception, saying that medically today, the health of the mother is not a reason for an abortion.

“Abortions are necessary in a number of circumstances to save the life of a woman or to preserve her health,” the college said. “Unfortunately, pregnancy is not a risk-free life event, particularly for many women with chronic medical conditions. Despite all of our medical advances, more than 600 women die each year from pregnancy- and childbirth-related reasons right here in the US. In fact, many more women would die each year if they did not have access to abortion to protect their health or to save their lives.”

Walsh has scheduled a 2:30 press conference today to discuss his comments, which have gone national

*** UPDATE 2 *** The Daily Herald didn’t even bother to include the Walsh/Duckworth abortion exchange in its story this morning. But its reporter did go to Walsh’s presser. From the Twitterverse…

@RepJoeWalsh pro life “for mother, unborn child.”

@RepJoeWalsh cites ectopic pregnancies as rare instances that could kill mother and child.

@repjoewalsh calls @Tammy4Congress “pro abortion zealot.”

@repjoewalsh distances himself from todd akin and “legitimate rape” comments.

@RepJoeWalsh didnt take questions about whether hes now making exception

The idea there is some kind of modern medical technology or procedure that has made full-term pregnancies suddenly perfectly safe for all women is news to Dr. Carrie Terrell, an ob-gyn and chief of staff at the University of Minnesota Medical Center.

“There are innumerable potential instances wherein a termination of pregnancy would be indicated to save a woman’s life,” she said in a phone interview Friday.

That list includes “but is not limited to,” she said, such serious conditions as:

Terrell said that in her practice, she sees pregnant women with these kinds of conditions several times a year.

[ *** End Of Updates *** ]

* The other thing that stood out for me in the coverage of this topic is that nobody challenged Duckworth to explain what she meant when she said she is “pro-choice without restriction.” What the heck does that mean? Abortion up to nine months for any reason at all?

Duckworth: “I polled on this and it turns out the LVs love abortion. No seriously they literally love it. They would marry pregnancy termination if they could. It is just that awesome here. So I am going to say this thing that is the grammatical opposite of what Walsh says to drive that point home. It is pretty awesome to give the people what they want!”

Walsh: “I did not poll this issue because I am dumb. Also even if I did, I would say the same thing, because that would be COMPROMISE and also I am crazy. Also hey Rupert Murdoch my contractual demands are in the mail.”

Maybe agree with you, M. But I look at the entire package. Sadly our two party system often presents us with a choice between the lesser of two evils. Walsh’s comments/ignorance on abortion are borderline Aiken like.

During the debate when I heard him make the statement about life of mother not being an exception, I honestly understood him to mean that it was a no brainer that the life of the mother always came first– (so obviously that situation is not and could never be considered an “exception” as he and some others do for rape, etc.)

Walsh is an absolute moron. As wonderful as it would be if medical science had advanced to the point where pregnancy is never a danger to the mother’s life, it hasn’t. The fact that he simply doesn’t care enough about women’s health to know that speaks volumes.

Family Issues – I am strongly Pro-Life and believe in the sanctity of all human life.

Duckworth:

Women’s Rights: I fully support a woman’s right to control her own body. I do not support any restrictions on a woman’s right to choose or her access to safe, affordable reproductive health services. I believe that all Americans are afforded a right to privacy and the right to make personal decisions about their health care without coercion. Protecting women’s rights is essential for all Americans to achieve their own American Dream. As a Member of Congress I will work to guarantee that women are treated equally and fairly in all areas. This includes receiving equal pay for equal work.

You will sometimes hear people saying that they don’t support abortion for ANY reason, and it turns out that they explicitly consider treatments that are intended to save the mother’s life (such as removal of the embryo in an ectopic pregnancy) not to be abortions, even if they end in the death of the embryo, because that’s not the intent of the procedure. I don’t think that kind of semantic parsing is very wise, but in the end, they do mean that women’s lives should be saved. That’s not what Walsh is saying, though. He just lives in some kind of rainbow unicorn fantasy land where the subject never comes up because doctors can always save everybody.

I would comment that it’s possible to work on two things at once, except health care issues really are economic issues. And so women’s health care decisions, whether they can make them without interference from those who have no business in the equation, and the payment for health care, are totally appropriate for discussion for elections.

Walsh’s idea that life of the mother is never a question sounds nuts…..and it is….but it is one that is passed around by lots of conservatives. Unfortunately I have a friend with whom I’m regularly talking and to whom I say “talk to the doctors.” but, then, the Tea Party crowd does not seem to believe in science so, sadly, what do we expect from them but the Walsh kind of nonsense. here’s hoping their ranks in D.C. can be lowered with a loss by Walsh.

“I dunno…I think the issue in this election for me is “It’s the economy, stupid!” not “It’s abortion, stupid!””

@M…

The great thing about being a woman is you don’t have to choose when it comes to voting against Republicans on the issue of their opposition to abortion rights or the economy because they don’t support doing anything to rectify unequal pay for women either.

My dad is a retired pediatric surgeon who spent many years working at Crook County Hospital. Recently he sent an email urging us to first and foremost vote in the upcoming election and offering his views on which candidate we should vote for. As part of the email, he wrote the following:

“… I am sure that some of you, out of religious conviction are opposed to abortion. You don’t remember, as I do, in the days prior to Roe-Wade when huge numbers of illegal abortions resulted in death, hemorrhage and sepsis in young women. During the 1950’s, there were as many as 50 women a day admitted to ward 41 in the County Hospital with bleeding or other complications. During that same period of time, and well into the ’60’s there were up to 100 abandoned, unwanted babies at any one time in the hospital. There is nothing more tragic than a teen age, unmarried girl having a baby–that spells ruin for two lives. My point is this–no matter what the government does or says, there will always be abortions and in many instances, abortion is the best choice. The only question is–will they be safe or not. The best way to prevent abortion is effective, readily available–and if I had my way, free contraception. …”

With all the problems we share as a nation? Really?
Maybe somebody brighter than I am can tell me as a nation why we cannot come up with better candidates than this. Not just here…in many places. Just really bad choices.

I too took Walsh’s ‘life of the mother’ comment as meaning it’s a given. I also expected Duckworth to say she’d be willing to sit down, and negotiate, and compromise on that, because it’s important, to her handlers, that she say that 80-90 more times.

But ZC, they are everywhere, and from both parties…just in Illinois we have Walsh, the Duckster, Gill, Plummer,JJJ,… And those are the ones not in jail? Think About Rod…crazy as an outhouse Rat, and we elect them time and again. At some point rational people have got to say. What’s the matter here? GI/GO folks!

I think supporting abortion rights without restriction means that you trust women to make their own decisions about it, and that you think government should stay out of medical decisions. I think the “what, up to 9 months?” is a straw argument.

Example of denial of abortion to save life of the mother. Recent news report about death of 16-year old with leukemia who was denied chemotherapy and abortion under Dominican Republic’s anti-abortion laws. This is the outcome of Walsh’s position.

It’ll get covered all day on msnbc which will inspire another round of check writing from donors and give her a last piece of bait to lure some last minute money. Sometime after this election I’m waiting for some grownup journalist if they still make those to write how we got from congresscritters like hastert, rostenkowski, john porter, crane, hyde, yates, ect to the show me your abs schock, plummers, jerry wellers, duckworths, and jesse jacksons of the world being the new standard.

Shore, I would argue that the fact that we don’t have many grownup journalists anymore is a big factor in why politics is so terrible. There have always been plenty of uninformed people, but people are *mal*informed today in a way that seems new. If it’s not Fox News propagandizing and terrifying people about the Kenyan Muslim anti-colonialist usurper, it’s the Very Serious mainstream media refusing to call out lies and BS because they’ve decided their job is to do nothing more than repeat what each side says. They get the vapors if anyone suggests that they should actually help the public determine what’s true; why, that would make journalists “truth vigilantes,” in the words of former New York Times Public Editor Arthur Brisbane, and we can’t have that!

Up to 9 months is, and should be, fine. If a woman carries a fetus inside of her for 8 months plus, then decides to get an abortion, she’s probably got a pretty darn good reason. Who am I to question it?

Huh? - Thank you for the anecdote. I’m far to young to have any experience of a pre-roe v wade world, but I’ve read about it, and I dread the idea of us going back to it.

A minor misstep by Walsh when trying to explain his view on abortion. I am not a fan or Joe Walsh but I have met and talked with him. As a result of my prior conversation with him, it is very obvious that he does not wish to put a woman’s life in danger. He needed to step back and look again at the words that came out of his mouth. He mis-spoke and thus distorted his true intent to convey his views. It was simply a “Joe Biden Moment”. Those things unfortunately happen. Just ask Joe.

@Jerry 101 -
Why stop at 9 months? Why not kill a baby up until 1 month after its born? The parents would know what is best, right? They “probably got a pretty darn good reason”. Who are you to question it?

If only most of our voters had been around pre-Roe, then this wouldn’t even be a political possibility. That decision was greatly welcomed by almost every thinking person at the time, including many Catholic clergy. The doctor had it right —

We have always had abortions in our society; our choice is between safe medical care, and butchery or ignorant self-injury.

But how will white baby Jesus bless our country if we allow abortions? This country has been in decline since it was legalized and we need to get right with God if we want to get out of our problems.

(Poe’s Law: Without a winking smiley or other blatant display of humor, it is impossible to create a parody of Fundamentalism that SOMEONE won’t mistake for the real thing. )

There are many people out there who, hand to God, say this and mean every word of it. And those people vote. For people like Joe Walsh, who will never actually make abortion illegal, but will happily say it to get their votes.

Until Americans decide to live in reality, where humans can be in control of their destiny and not trying to create a utpoia as envisioned 2000 years ago, we will have bad politicians and bad policy. It will be a lot nicer for folks to come to the realization on their own instead of after seeing their unworkable ideas destroy generations of Americans.

Joe’s never heard of pre-eclampsia? Which is cured by delivery, the death of the mother, or the death of the baby?

It’s not unheard of for doctors to induce delivery before viability when the baby isn’t going to live and when the mother is pro-life. It’s abortion, but the mothers involved prefer to think of it as a miscarriage or a severely premature birth. I have a very Catholic relative who did just this. She would be insulted if you said it was abortion, but that’s what it was.

No one is going to bring a bill up for a vote on abortion. The topic is moot. Why is there even discussion about this issue. Unless the Supreme court will open up a reversal of Roe v. Wade, this is a distraction that neither Duckworth nor Walsh will have an impact upon.

===No one is going to bring a bill up for a vote on abortion. The topic is moot. Why is there even discussion about this issue. Unless the Supreme court will open up a reversal of Roe v. Wade, this is a distraction that neither Duckworth nor Walsh will have an impact upon.

==”I dunno…I think the issue in this election for me is “It’s the economy, stupid!” not “It’s abortion, stupid!”===

The economy isn’t really an issue for most on the right. Their stocks are doing great, their corporations are sitting on cash, they are receiving record bonuses, their failed financial schemes were bailed out, and there subjects all have locked in their entitlements. All that is left is ideology and attacks on others.

If Aiken and Walsh are right, then the US military must have some super-secret research facility where scientists attempt to reproduce — no pun intended — the female body’s amazing feats.

Block insemination through a chemical response triggered by rape? No problem. Overcome pre-eclampsia and ectopic pregnancies because, you know, abortion is just wrong? Check. Can the ability to re-form perfect tissue, Terminator-style, after taking bullet be far behind??

I’m not sure if anyone knows where Roe is currently, not until Roberts and Alito cast a vote. But, concede that it could be. Roberts has surprised us in the past .

Re candidates for office, I’d say the overwhelming crush / need to be a constant fundraiser / telemarketer these days probably does discourage some good people from running, they just can’t take the constant money treadmill. So there’s that. These folks spend a ridiculous amount of time on the phone asking millionaires for cash.

@dang - Then you can’t judge Susan Smith and other adults who kill their children, either.
If fact, by your logic, there should be no laws at all since they require judgement by your fellow man. Enjoy anarchy.

–The idea there is some kind of modern medical technology or procedure that has made full-term pregnancies suddenly perfectly safe for all women is news to Dr. Carrie Terrell, an ob-gyn and chief of staff at the University of Minnesota Medical Center.–

Doctors — what do they know about advances in medical science and technology? We’re talking Congressmen here!

sorry about the debate review last night. I watched it pretty closely and didn’t think anything was that big of a deal but I pretty clearly screwed up. What’s interesting is that this question which ignited this “national firestorm” was literally the last one asked in what for them was a pretty unnewsworthy and civil debate. Goes to show the need to watch and follow every last detail of stuff.