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darwined

(note: some guide can charge the big price because of there reputation and just want money for there next trip...they don't even think at your safety).

First of all, as I understand it nobody's gettin rich guiding. How do you think they got a reputation? I'm pretty sure it didn't come from getting clients killed. I think a high percentage of the guides, based in the valley, are damned good professionals. And, are you seriously bitching about falling ice on a trade route? Come on dude!

If you climb at Frankenstien on the weekends it is generally a clusterfuck. Especially on that route!

Start climbing, go find another route to climb or, expect to get passed. That's just the way it is there these days. Not saying that it's right.

As I said before, I climbed there for many years and even if there was a lot of people... there was always respectful way to climb. I even solo that route without any problem with people criticism me or place in danger people who was new leader. It is like climbing thin air, you have to expect to wait.

If guides promote (some minority guide promote) the idea that you just take care of your party and the other can go away (like chia)...I understand why it is not that much fun climbing these years.

DLottmann

If guides promote (some minority guide promote) the idea that you just take care of your party and the other can go away (like chia)...I understand why it is not that much fun climbing these years.

Wasn't telling to to "go away", just trying to suggest where you might find less busy routes to "test" your partners on. Chia is an excellent climb. You could take all guides away from Standard, it is still ridiculously busy with slow moving new climbers...

(note: some guide can charge the big price because of there reputation and just want money for there next trip...they don't even think at your safety).

First of all, as I understand it nobody's gettin rich guiding. How do you think they got a reputation? I'm pretty sure it didn't come from getting clients killed. I think a high percentage of the guides, based in the valley, are damned good professionals. And, are you seriously bitching about falling ice on a trade route? Come on dude!

Standard Route is likely one of the, if not the most, climbed route in NH- probably all of New England. Local guides are out teaching others to climb as well as earning a living. If you choose to climb the route, especially on a weekend (just like Thin Air), be there first, or expect "competition" for the route. You were "waiting" for the hazard of dislodging to cease- if another group chooses to expose themselves to that hazard and pass by you, although it isn't the most courteous action, it is to be expected on Standard Route.

Your ongoing cotton undergarment shtick is simply the most misguided ignorant "technique" I've ever heard. You wanna wear cotton in the winter? At least be smart(?) enough to keep it to yourself. I'll take it that you've never climbed anything bigger than a day trip. Otherwise, you'd understand that wearing ANYTHING cotton in winter is what fools do. Nevermind anyone who defends your actions. They're FOOLS too.

You were "waiting" for the hazard of dislodging to cease- if another group chooses to expose themselves to that hazard and pass by you, although it isn't the most courteous action, it is to be expected on Standard Route.

If the guide can not gave the example of courtesy...like you do...who will gave it. If I was waiting at the bottom it was to avoid the ice, but also to let the other climber to have a nice day and finish the route at there speed. Even if we start after the leader, if I was slow to place my screw on the steepest place, if I climb the pillar, I had to wait that the other party move to the top before leading the last pitch.

As you say that it is a misguided ignorant "technique" you ever heard, we can explain why it is normal for you to pass an other team who was waiting. I climbed la pomme d'or and used to camp a week in the coldest months of the year each years...just for fun...solo. I spend a lot of days outside, as I said, I study how animal conserve there energy in my master degree and I test different technique to adopt cotton t-shirt as a very effective method to stay dry.

What I am saying, is that there are guide and Guide. Insulting some one of ignorant when you never heard and test the technique before... it is guide.

I think a high percentage of the guides, based in the valley, are damned good professionals.

I agree that most of it are good, but easy money is also good and people have to earn a living. it is easy to fall in a dark side of the industry. So, they adopt bad comportment to be competitive, they don't teach the basic any more. Most of them are real climber and they know, but what they can do. As I leave far, I can talk and describe a situation to help people to find Guide, with a capital G. the climbing community will benefit of more courtesy and talking at the bottom of a cliff, waiting a party to move high enough to have fun, is also a good place for a guide to discuss technique, how to predict weather, how to plan a route, etc

DLottmann

The issue here is some routes have multiple safe lines that can be ascended without being in the fall line of other parties... Standard Route has 2-3 variations that stay out of each other's fall line, and while you may cross above some one on the last pitch the route is so terraced there falling ice will get caught up in snow before going further down the route. The frustrating thing is when someone starts a variation then dramatically changes course. Two examples on Standard that bother me:

1) Start up the middle (most common) route, go into the cave and use the bolt anchor way over on the right instead of the bongs.

2) Start up the right but zig through the cave and do the middle 2nd pitch (instead of window route).

TBH most parties looking for the easiest way up would do well to skip the cave, go up the middle, and belay on one of the many nice flat spots above the cave where you have visual with your partner 100%. Though it is funny watching folks in the cave try to figure out if they are on belay or not...