I've been called an arrogant asshole, a festering cockmonster, and a diseased taintstick. But never a "tough guy". I'll take it under advisement, and thanks for the heads-up.

Seriously, in the end, I just want people to get good, accurate information. Lots of new people come here for advice on what bike to buy....I was that guy 4 years ago after being out of the offroad game for 20 years.

I read the posts and made a really bad decision on my first bike as a result.

People need to know the truth. The KLR is a decent bike, but because it "looks" like a dirt bike, people think they are are going to fly over whoops and launch table tops with it.

They need to know that it's a big, heavy pig of a bike that does nothing particularly well. It can be ridden anywhere, yes. Is it reliable? Sure. Is it more reliable that most big singles? No, I don't believe so. Especially 08+. The earlier years were better bikes.

It's cheap to own, cheap to buy, and you pay for that cheapness on the trail and at the end of the day.

So thus, education is my goal.

No, the bike was rarin to go, my old, out of shape ass was DONE after 30 miles. (but we did 100 the day prior of KNARLY trails)

So we limped back to camp and "roughed it".

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This thread has been interesting to say the least.

I have owned 4 KLR's, my 2011 runs really good. I love them all. I have owned a few KTM's, one Husky, ummm,
yea a few motorcycles. I am mostly a dirt bike rider however, and the KLR is just a big ole comfortable bike, that
I can ride in comfort for miles of dirt roads, and less traveled roads. It is perfect for me for that purpose. I have other bikes which I ride alot more to take care of the whoops, sand, hills, roots, rocks, coyotes, cactus, .....

But what really freaks me out about this photo is I may have that same Cross Roads Cruiser fifth wheel?
And I have that same "life is good" tee shirt! :eek1

People need to know the truth. The KLR is a decent bike, but because it "looks" like a dirt bike, people think they are are going to fly over whoops and launch table tops with it.

They need to know that it's a big, heavy pig of a bike that does nothing particularly well.

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Yes because all the real ADVRiders are annoyed at all the KLR owners complaining about how their bikes can't handle MX track type terrain. You're a complete fucking moron if you think any significant portion of KLR owners believe their bikes should be able to do table tops.

I think KTM would sell a lot more 690e bikes if they mounted that engine in a frame with 34" seat height, had 200 mile range, a wide spread gear box and added a windscreen and a seat instead of a suppository

I've got a serious question for the KTM riders no flaming intended. There is only one KTM dealer (also sells Honda, Yam, Suz, and Victory) in this area and it only keeps a few 2 stroke KTMs on the showroom floor yet there are full compliments of models from the other brands. If you want to buy a street legal KTM you have to order it and wait for delivery. Sometimes the dealer can't find the bike you want and the wait can last months or more and they won't even start looking till you lay down some money. I want to add the dealership has been around for decades and has a good reputation but I've never dealt with them other than to inquire over the phone about a 690. Is this the norm for KTM dealers?

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That is because there are two types of KTM dealers:

Level I: the dirt bike only dealer
Level II: the full line dealer, which includes the street bikes

I believe the street line dealer has to be accredited to carry the full line of KTM bikes and has to send it's mechanics to the KTM school for certification.

Originally Posted by itsatdm
I think KTM would sell a lot more 690e bikes if they mounted that engine in a frame with 34" seat height, had 200 mile range, a wide spread gear box and added a windscreen and a seat instead of a suppository

Might of been the case in the 90s, but not now. I'd put KTMs RFS bike up against any KLR any day of the week..
While Japanese motorcycle makers have been asleep, Euro designers have overtaken the dual sport market. The 08 KLR "redesign" didn't help.

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How many RFS engines have gone even 30k miles without replacing a single thing in the motor (or as KTM owners love to call it, "preventative maintenance" )? The "KLR miles check-in" thread and the disproportionate number of KTM horror stories to number of KTMs out there makes this troll's beliefs obvious for what they are, complete BS Obviously if you want an orange single with long-term maintenance even remotely comparable to a KLR, you're going to have to look for a LC4 and even owners of those bikes seem to do a lot of "preventative maintenance". But we all know the Euro bikes are dominating the dual sport market with their extremely high sales numbers somehow compared to the well established and going-nowhere Jap dual sport offerings, right!? What a joke. What he's trying to say here is "I'm an orange troll and my obsessions project outward and alter my perceptions of the market place such that they don't reflect reality at all".

His third post in this thread fell into rank like clockwork orange (pun intended):

You are missing the point entirely. The point is that in your mind, a KTM is some sort of exotic, high-zoot, high-strung race machine.

The real-world reality is the exact opposite. It is very workmanship and tractor-like, and put together by engineers that knew what they were doing.

There's a reason why almost everyone rides them.

Hey, there's a place in the offroad world for a KLR, and I've seen them do some things that defy logic, but when people start slinging outright lies on KTMs, I tend to have a problem with that.

I'm here to educate people.

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I wonder how many other KTM owners would dare describe their bikes as "tractor-like" if not simply for the fact that they wouldn't risk tainting their egos with any phrase that is so plainly associated with the KLR more so than any other bike out there. Such warped perception can only be explained by the presumption that Off the grid must live under a bridge in another universe. Every KTM owner that reads his "tractor-like" KTM description is distancing themselves from this troll.

Sorry for the long post. It's practically takes a good trolling to respond to a good trolling.

You be the judge: is Off the grid a orange kool-aid drinking KLR hating troll?

1<sup>st</sup> post in this thread:

Stephen King could foreshadow this twisted tale any better...

2<sup>nd</sup> post:

How many RFS engines have gone even 30k miles without replacing a single thing in the motor (or as KTM owners love to call it, "preventative maintenance" )? The "KLR miles check-in" thread and the disproportionate number of KTM horror stories to number of KTMs out there makes this troll's beliefs obvious for what they are, complete BS Obviously if you want an orange single with long-term maintenance even remotely comparable to a KLR, you're going to have to look for a LC4 and even owners of those bikes seem to do a lot of "preventative maintenance". But we all know the Euro bikes are dominating the dual sport market with their extremely high sales numbers somehow compared to the well established and going-nowhere Jap dual sport offerings, right!? What a joke. What he's trying to say here is "I'm an orange troll and my obsessions project outward and alter my perceptions of the market place such that they don't reflect reality at all".

His third post in this thread fell into rank like clockwork orange (pun intended):

Then he finally came all the way out from under the bridge with his 5th post:

6th post:

I wonder how many other KTM owners would dare describe their bikes as "tractor-like" if not simply for the fact that they wouldn't risk tainting their egos with any phrase that is so plainly associated with the KLR more so than any other bike out there. Such warped perception can only be explained by the presumption that Off the grid must live under a bridge in another universe. Every KTM owner that reads his "tractor-like" KTM description is distancing themselves from this troll.

Sorry for the long post. It's practically takes a good trolling to respond to a good trolling.

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I know 2 Class A riders that I used to ride with in the NorthEast with 20k and 30k on their 02 520s that they purchased new in 02. Both are still on their original top ends. The 30k bike needed new intake valves. These are not slow riders like me, mind you, these guys flog their bikes mercilessly.

The bottom line is that almost everyone starts out in the dirt on a Japanese bike because that's what we grew up on, what we knew.

The game has changed. Euro bikes, and more specifically KTM, absolutely dominates the dual sport/enduro market.

Myself and 90% of the people I ride with started out the same....on XRRs, DRZs, etc and moved to KTM RFS bikes, Huskys, etc.

That's the evolution of the sport. Of the equipment. It's not debatable or open to my personal interpretation. It's fact. The Euros are currently producing much better bikes, and have been for over a decade now.

If you think otherwise, you are a Unabomber-esque recluse that rides an XR400 alone through fire roads. Because anyone that attends an organized ride, event, or ADV meet will see this.

Mind you, I have absolutely no issue with those that want to cling so desperately to the "old way" of heavy, antiquated Japanese bikes with teeth-rattling suspension and dangerous brakes.

Hell, I have zero brand loyalty. If the big 4 out East would put out something comparable, I would consider it, but they haven't. And won't. It's not in their corporate plan, and never was.

Lastly, understand that to me, it's just a hunk of fucking metal. Metal, rubber, plastic and fluids. It's not an image, or part of who I am. I want the best tool for the job, like many other people.

Why do I go out of my way to educate people? Because people DO buy KLRs and think they are going to ride cross-country and climb 20 degree hills without limitations. People tend to promote their brand like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I wouldn't recommend a Euro bike to a dirt n00b, and never have. But I certainly would not push a 360lb XR650L for someone who has dirt experience and is looking for a bike to do "20% road/80% dirt".

That happens here. More than you know.

Thus, education.

PS: If you are trying to get a rise out of me, you are going to have a do a shitload better than that, Scooter. I'm not new to ADV, and I'm certainly not new to the internet. Don't waste your time.

If anyone bought a KLR thinking it's the latest and greatest flier then they didn't do any research at all.

I bought mine as a gravel-road bike although it's done some 1,000-mile days and I dropped it yesterday on some single-track that I'm sure other bikes would have cleared.

If I wanted to replace it with something that has better power-to-weight ratio, I'd still probably go Japanese. I'm not going 3-hours each way to Norway for KTM parts or even farther for the other European brands. I can get parts for any Japanese bike fairly close to home and in many rural areas.

I don't see anyone saying the KLR is the latest and greatest. I don't need the latest or greatest and many others don't either.

I have a visitor, I'm bailing out now.

EDIT: Back from having a visitor. There will always be a latest, greatest, fastest, and lightest. Get one and there will be different latest greatest. Declining to pursue that does not make anyone a "Unabomber-esque recluse"

First you have to define the sport. If it is a race, you win. My bike is more mule than thoroughbred. It will carry a lot of gear, including me through some remote areas. It gets over 200 miles to a tank on regular gas. It is pretty simple to work on. It will cruise at the speed limit with some reserve for passing. Suspension is not high tech but comfy, but I am not in a race.

I do know the difference between Hi tech and Low. I just chose to upgrade a low tech bike a little. This probabably makes 45hp at the wheel. I know if I wanted, 55hp is doable, just not as reliable. It has 11 and 12" of travel. I can flat foot it. At 75mph it is turning 5,500rpm so I expect it will outlast me. If it doesn't, I know how to rebuild it since I built in the first place.
.

When I joined ADV it was participate in some of the camaraderie apparent at the Rallies. Big bike, little bike, most rode them there. Not so much anymore. It is a rare KTM than does not arrive on a trailer or in the back of truck. Why is that? Nice house trailer BTW.

As you can probably tell, I am older than dirt. I am not comfortable turning a National Park into an off road race track. I happen to think you are missing something if you don't stop to smell the roses once in while. Riding like your hair is on fire and then watching the results on your computer via your video camera is not the same.

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I'm right there with ya, mate.

I'm older than spit, ride like old people have sex....slow and sloppy.

And that rig isn't mine. It's a buddies. I might mooch a sleeping spot, (beats a tent when it's 40degrees at night) but this is how I show up to rides/events/rallies....

I will tell ya what..... I paid $1500 for my KLR. I spent a fair bit of money building it up. I think I am now totally into it about $6K with motor, suspension, and fairing, total. I can strip it to nuts and bolts on the side of the trail if I need to. I am still into it less than a comparable KTM would cost me. I ride almost every day, when it is not snowing, I ride the dirt and gravel roads of Montana extensively, and I ride single track now with my buddies on KTM 450 trail bikes. I am not nearly as fast, but every time they wait at the top of something help me, and plow right through while they collect their jaws off the ground.

No, my bike isn't a KTM, but it was cheaper to build, is simple to work on, and has NEVER failed me, even when I have screwed up mechanically. Comparing it to a KTM is silly. With a 705 kit, headwork, and some other tweaks, it is one helluva bike. And my butt dyno confirms it has more than enough oomph to get me in trouble.

I will tell ya what..... I paid $1500 for my KLR. I spent a fair bit of money building it up. I think I am now totally into it about $6K with motor, suspension, and fairing, total. I can strip it to nuts and bolts on the side of the trail if I need to. I am still into it less than a comparable KTM would cost me. I ride almost every day, when it is not snowing, I ride the dirt and gravel roads of Montana extensively, and I ride single track now with my buddies on KTM 450 trail bikes. I am not nearly as fast, but every time they wait at the top of something help me, and plow right through while they collect their jaws off the ground.

No, my bike isn't a KTM, but it was cheaper to build, is simple to work on, and has NEVER failed me, even when I have screwed up mechanically. Comparing it to a KTM is silly. With a 705 kit, headwork, and some other tweaks, it is one helluva bike. And my butt dyno confirms it has more than enough oomph to get me in trouble.

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Bullshit.

I have under $7000 into my 950. Including driving to SLC from Ft.Worth to get it, purchased OCT 2010.

I have $5500 or so into my 2004 525exc including the 540cc kit and dualsport kit. And i bought it in 2008.

Take it shittilly if you want, but you're exactly the guy that perpetuates this crap. Both of these bikes are designed and intended to strip to the frame if needed with not much more than the included tool kit. I've never worked on anything less user-friendly than Kawasaki motorcycles. And I've built everything from backyard gokarts to 3,000hp drag cars and everything inbetween including time as a Lexus Master technician and ALMS car chief. Even the GS is easier to perform regular maintenance on.

Its a free country, but saying you have FAR LESS money in your heavily modded tractor is a flat out lie.

some electrons were mildly inconvenienced in the sending of this message

Quality thread guys,i've been checking but only got as far as the 2nd/3rd page, needless to say i missed the cat fights between klr owners and the ktm owners, having just caught up while having tea i can say it;'s been one of the best films i've ever seen, abuse/terror/hilarity/sadness and that was just the ktm owners, gentlemen i salute you.

Wow, yay for you. I looked. I work on all kinds of vehicles too. I said comparing them was foolish. I only compared costs of what I built compared to what I could find. I never said anything else about your precious KTM. In fact, I like them a lot. Just not in my budget.