breathless posts about coaching changes and scheme problems and all will miss the major point: The Giants could have Lombardi, Landry, Belichick, and Parcells on the staff with John Wooden giving advice and it wouldn't change the fact that these players, especially on offense and particularly on the offensive line suck, and suck hard.

This team needs talent in the worst way. If part of a rebuild includes new coaches then so be it, but the talent gap is so painfully clear to see for anyone that can watch this with any shred of objectivity.

breathless posts about coaching changes and scheme problems and all will miss the major point: The Giants could have Lombardi, Landry, Belichick, and Parcells on the staff with John Wooden giving advice and it wouldn't change the fact that these players, especially on offense and particularly on the offensive line suck, and suck hard.

This team needs talent in the worst way. If part of a rebuild includes new coaches then so be it, but the talent gap is so painfully clear to see for anyone that can watch this with any shred of objectivity.

...like it or not, coaching matters, and it is more than just on game day. First, look at recent history of teams turning things around from one year to the next with a new staff (I know it doesn't always happen, but it can and does). Second, poorly coached/taught players will tend to look shitty over time. Last, players not motivated by a staff will underperform consistently. The talent on this team is not great, but it is not this bad. They just do not respond to this staff.

Any grown up with a hero has issues much bigger than rooting for a shitty football team. I just loathe Coughlin and crew and want them gone yesterday. Additionally, I'm sure you are aware on issues such as this, I cannot be wrong, and neither can you... Just opinions bro

years from now we will view this season proudly as a battle scar. A test of fan credibility. A downtime we can point to so as not come to off as frontrunners from an organization who has given us a lot. Everyone loves playing the victim card as a fan, even successful ones. 2013 has given us that if nothing else. Its been a while

changes coming. My guess is that the Giants stick with Eli, that they blame most of his atrocious play on the rest of the OL being even worse, but there are real questions about what we should do with him after next season. He can't play like this again and expect to remain as the starting QB, or even on the team.

We know that he has no offensive line but this is not his first 25 interception year. He throws behind, short, long and off the back foot. He birddogs receivers. Yes, he has had no help at all but this is a group effort and a total disaster for the team and the coach. Start the rebuild now and start with the coaching staff and those players who simply cannot do it anymore. Not talking about Eli here, but please , please no more excuses for any one on this team.

But what I would love to see most is Eli just going off on someone on the sildlines instead of just nodding his head or him standing there like with the I havefreaking clue look on his face. Just blow up Eli, on Cruz on the OL on Nicks on someone, just rip him apart like many other QBs including you big bro has done in the past, when someone isnt preforming as expected. just get in his face and rip him up in front of the whole offense/team.

breathless posts about coaching changes and scheme problems and all will miss the major point: The Giants could have Lombardi, Landry, Belichick, and Parcells on the staff with John Wooden giving advice and it wouldn't change the fact that these players, especially on offense and particularly on the offensive line suck, and suck hard.

This team needs talent in the worst way. If part of a rebuild includes new coaches then so be it, but the talent gap is so painfully clear to see for anyone that can watch this with any shred of objectivity.

Correct. But what are the chances that Jerry Reese gets canned? I'd say the chances of Coughlin going are no better than 20% and the chances of Reese going are nil. So now what? We watch another year of lousy football until Coughlin just retires and even then I think Reese has a job. Under this ownership group, nothing short of a fan boycott will bring down Reese/Coughlin.

but the obvious need on this team is for improved play on the interior line. The LG play today was some of the worst you will ever see. We also need a turnover in coaching, because you don't have two shutouts in a season on offense or allow 36, 36, 37, 38 and 41 points on defense and hold what you've got.

who tells Eli straight up he doesn't give a fuck how many Super Bowl MVP trophies he has. Eli's year has been HORRID. It's not all on him, but he has played some bad, bad, bad football this year.

Great idea you should set up a meeting with John Mara to discuss this grand plan..

Being honest: do you think that your sarcastic comment is by any means constructive, intelligent, witty, humorous, or overall worthwhile? What does it accomplish? What's the point? The above poster is an idiot for wanting a new QB coach?

Is a free agent, what are you talking about? Comp pick happens if we lose more free agents and better free agents then we gain, what does hold onto Nicks have to do with that? We have a bunch of fat cat players and a horrible team overall. This team is years away from even being competitive. We have no OLine, no Tight ends, no Wideouts, except for Cruz who is good, not great, no running backs except for Brown who is not even good, a little better then average, Hillis who is a castoff, and they are our best, a former first round bust also, and an over rated QB, top it off with a bad offensive coordinator and this is what you get.

these players, especially on offense and particularly on the offensive line suck, and suck hard.

Ask yourself this: If these players who suck so hard are playing at their optimum level of potential who gave them jobs? Who runs them out there week in and week out? How come, if this is the best available, the Giants are stuck with them?

If the players have quit on the team, well that's the coaching staff's fault isn't it.

Yes, you are right,this team suck big time, but please don't absolve the coaching staff, the GM or the ownership. They share the blame equally.

breathless posts about coaching changes and scheme problems and all will miss the major point: The Giants could have Lombardi, Landry, Belichick, and Parcells on the staff with John Wooden giving advice and it wouldn't change the fact that these players, especially on offense and particularly on the offensive line suck, and suck hard.

This team needs talent in the worst way. If part of a rebuild includes new coaches then so be it, but the talent gap is so painfully clear to see for anyone that can watch this with any shred of objectivity.

who tells Eli straight up he doesn't give a fuck how many Super Bowl MVP trophies he has. Eli's year has been HORRID. It's not all on him, but he has played some bad, bad, bad football this year.

Great idea you should set up a meeting with John Mara to discuss this grand plan..

Being honest: do you think that your sarcastic comment is by any means constructive, intelligent, witty, humorous, or overall worthwhile? What does it accomplish? What's the point? The above poster is an idiot for wanting a new QB coach?

Kyle you must love my posts considering you feel compelled to constantly respond to them..

Is that he is going to somewhere else on a cap friendly deal and then turn it on.

I doubt this.

If he was going to turn it on, whether he wants to be here or not, it would have happened this season, so he wouldn't have to sign a cap-friendly deal somewhere else and could have at least approached Mike Wallace money.

Don't get me wrong, he put forth a pretty feeble effort today, but his main problem is that he's just a shadow of what he once was physically and that's not going to fully come back for him.

In this day and age of NFL a team can go from worst to best in 1 season. we see it every year.
on the bright side thye Giants should have more than enough cap space to make a few dents in FA that will fill a few holes and then...well who knows.

Eli is having one of the worst years for a QB ever. If he didn't win any super bowl rings he would have been benched weeks ago... + you cant make that much $$$ if your playing like the worse player in the NFL.

It's amazing to me to see so many people think that the Super Bowl clock has something to do with any of this - like it has magic powers.

It's not too difficult to follow ... the GM in charge of evaluating talent thought the talent he had assembled was so good that he figured it was safe to put a countdown clock in the locker room - a public pronouncement that his assemblage of players were going to compete for the trophy and be the first team in NFL history to play the SB in their own building.

Again, not too difficult to understand that anyone who would do that, was seriously "off" in his evaluation - this being the one person being paid millions of dollars to make an accurate assessment of that very talent

only lost 23-0, I was expecting 45-17. This Seattle offense is not great outside of Seattle. Makes me wonder if they can win a SB. Sure they will make to the big game, I just wonder if they have what it takes to win on neutral field.

I wonder, were the coaches ready? not just for this game but for 9 other loses?

why is he rolling the blame to the players?? man up and share the blame, its not just them. players play coaches coach, coaches must put players in position to have success. piss poor job at that this season.

yeah the clock was stupid but maybe he put it there to show he has confidence in this group of players and inspire them?
it sure doesnt look good now with the way the season unfolded but Im pretty sure if we were sitting pretty atop the NFCE we would saying something diff.

was just how far our program is behind the current elite of the league. And on our home field too. The NFL is year to year, and you can see wild swings from one year to the next, but we will need a home run offseason. Its a shame we pissed away draft slotting on some meaningless wins against a lucky stretch of the schedule with qb situations in flux. We are closer to 3-11 quality than 5-9

I'm not saying he's not going to translate, but typically these top college QBs do not throw picks. I mean RG3 threw 17 in 1200 passes. Manziel throws picks, if he pans out he's going to be a 25-15 30-20 split type guy

How can it be over emphasized? After all, Reese clearly wouldn't have done it unless he thought the Giants were one of the top teams in the league ... If you don't have a problem that he thought that, then that's fine. But, if I am Mara and Tisch, I have a HUGE problem paying Reese millions of dollars only to learn that weeks before the season started, he thought the Giants were one of the very best teams in the league. He gets paid millions of dollars to know the actual state of affairs - but he obviously didn't have a clue - and to me, that is unforgivable. Permanently unforgivable.

plyaers in best possible chance to succeed. this system puts them behind a goddamn 8 ball all the time. 0 margin for error or wiggle room. its like trying to breath hanging from a noose. if they don't change the offensive system im going to lose my mind. and that's if Eli isn't permanently fucked in the head from this shit this year

Coughlin is never critical of his coaches, after all they are just implementing his horrible game plans. But it's funny he will take the blame before putting it on them. He really is oblivious, I think the game has changed and it sadly has left him behind.

status quo with this staff, they need to and let Eli move on to another team, to try and salvage his career (the Browns, for example, would be a good choice, with Gordon and Turner installed).

Manziel, Bridgewater... whatever. Let someone else be the square peg for the round hole because this one isn't working anymore and trying to pretend it is or will isn't going to help the team or the player.

Crazy offense when your coach admits they basically depend on Nicks to go for jump balls because passes aren't accurate.

He is an X, he should be able to go fight for the ball. At some point like TC said your skill players need to make plays.

That can't be your entire game plan. Sherman is no scrub. As a coach you need to understand that stuff. I would contemplate making serious changes if q coach said that's all I had to go with. Praying Nicks and Cruz to constantly out physical their opposition is ridiculous.

How can it be over emphasized? After all, Reese clearly wouldn't have done it unless he thought the Giants were one of the top teams in the league ... If you don't have a problem that he thought that, then that's fine. But, if I am Mara and Tisch, I have a HUGE problem paying Reese millions of dollars only to learn that weeks before the season started, he thought the Giants were one of the very best teams in the league. He gets paid millions of dollars to know the actual state of affairs - but he obviously didn't have a clue - and to me, that is unforgivable. Permanently unforgivable.

Is the super bowl clock the reason why Snee tore his hip, Baas was lost for the year, Beatty played like a rookie after having a great season?

Is the super bowl clock the reason Hakeem Nicks suddenly doesn't have any talent and Reuben Randle still can't run a play without causing an interception?

You can have a problem with it, that's fine, but they're not going to fire the GM or somehow discipline him to your satisfaction because of this year.

Crazy offense when your coach admits they basically depend on Nicks to go for jump balls because passes aren't accurate.

He is an X, he should be able to go fight for the ball. At some point like TC said your skill players need to make plays.

I respect your opinion. But on the last int, how is that Nicks fault? His hands are as high or higher than the db, who is in perfect position. What could Nicks do?

Can someone on offense make a play? You aren't going to get a perfect pass in a season like this. When you do its going to be dropped, tipped or guy running the wrong route or quitting on the route. When the guy is open Eli fucks up. In this fucking season, all of the above will go wrong.

But you are 1 on 1 with your X? Those are plays Nicks made in his career. If that's the case then design a play that's more safe. Have someone run a hitch, not Murphy Jr.. Throw to a Rb. For the record when Eli threw it I didn't expect a TD. I didn't expect an Ints either in that fashion. But when it happened I nodded and though well based on how the season has gone. That's par for the season.

I never once said they were going to fire Reese. In fact, I'd be willing to bet a large chunk of money that there's about zero chance he will be fired.

But, if this season is on anyone, it's on Reese. And to try to blame this season in injuries is silly. Injuries have very very little to do with the problem. The problem is that the team is devoid of talent - and it is going to take 2-3 years of gathering talent to turn things around. Problem is, the guy in charge of gathering talent has done a piss poor job of it over the past 3-4 years AND DIDN'T KNOW IT.

The Seahawks defense. Just get more physical guys. That's the answer. Jump higher and push off more. Number one secondary and elite pass rushers who cares just be more physical. And if you get concuss trying to get out physical hold on to the ball.

I appreciate his play this season, but shut the fuck up. The offense isn't spectacularly shitty this season because they don't want it enough, just like the defense didn't give up that season-ending drive against the Cowboys after running their mouth all week because they weren't trying hard enough or what have you.

there's no way the staff is going to survive and if they do let him go it will be one of the bigger mistakes they've ever made. this team cannot draft DE or QB in round 1. you cannot boast your "strengths" and then go draft into them

It is obvious that the whole organization is down. A total evaluation by the owners must be made. There has been horrible football played for a season and a half. The dilemma being do we do a total overhaul of the coaching/front office? I think not. Major changes must be made and I think we all agree on that. What they are is anybody's guess. I will be interested to read what all of you think. The team is in free fall and. Priorities must be set by ownership and bold moves might be needed.

this team has a lot of work to do. Eli has been terrible this year but he's still a guy I trust to lead this team next year, but Gilbride absolutely must be fired and a new offensive philosophy needs to be brought in. We also need to make a big effort to improve this OL. A lot of work to do but this organization is capable of a quick reload.

Second, Eli threw the ball in the best place possible for the defender to make a play on that ball. That ball needs to be in Nicks hands... or out of bounds.

It was neither.

But that wasn't really an ugly INT by Eli. That second pick over the middle on short Nicks crossing pattern was.

Then compounded by that fucking Hail Mary. You're QB has 2 ints already and now you want him to fucking throw it up there for anyone. Eli should have taken a knee and that's saying it kindly.

As a coach you tell your players if the balk is near you or you can touch it bring it in. That's what I preached and I coached that way. I told my TE corps not to make excuses. If during game review I felt it was a bad pass I'd say it. But I ran drills to coach this. I threw balls like Eli is thrown g them. I threw them a lot worse too. You run these drills during Indy period to prepare your players. You coach them up so that they are ready for any kind of pass perfect or bad.

So no I have no sympathy for it because I know as a skill position coach I coached and designed drills for games like this.

I don't disagree with it being a big mistake, but I also don't see the

team doing what should be done with the staff to at least give the QB a chance to turn things around.

It's screams obvious (well, for not for everyone), but yet, unless they're going to be willing to fire TC, it's not going to happen and if it doesn't happen, Eli's not a realistic solution here at this point, he's that messed up right now; all he's likely going to accomplish within the status quo is to fully piss away anything he may have been building as a legacy with a brutal close to his career. I don't want to watch that and, more importantly, that's not going to help the team I root for succeed in the small or big picture either.

is we still may not crack the top ten of the draft, and we'll likely get the Falcons and Packers with our third-place schedule, both of whom will likely bounce back with good seasons. All this misery won't even bring the usual benefits of a top pick and shitty schedule the following year.

as it gets in the NFL. It worked out exactly the way anybody would've expected. If I had written out the play-by-play action before the game it would've looked almost exactly like it did, although I would've said 3 INTs instead of 5.

- Valiant effort by the defense, futilely keeping the team within touching distance for as long as possible
- Complete zero from the defense with turnovers, no big plays, no ability to move the ball at all

This is also why a lot of people here weren't all that excited about the 4 game winning streak. It wasn't hard to figure out that the Giants were way, way behind the good teams in the league.

I just staying staying the course and drafting a QB high would be a disaster of epic proportions, this team is currently not built to draft and develop a QB from up high. just too weak at too many positions. I feel the same way about going for Clowney

it'll set them back 5 years *if* the QB develops.

I think it's moot because there's no way the staff survives this, the only logical way to do this is blow everything up, and find a staff that will build around their few strengths.

this team does not have the talent to execute the game plan they have been trying to execute for the past ten years. They needed to adjust the game planning to the talent and they didn't. It would not surprise me if guys decided to mentally check out because the results have not changed for over a year.
It's not the fault of the players that the team has been using the same playbook since 2004 and that a competent opposing coaching staff would plan accordingly. This team does not adjust and does not try to do something different.
because they draft to fit the same gameplan.

Unless they shitcan the entire coaching staff, they are looking to repeat the same in 2014.

I just feel like those 5 wins/that 4 game win streak screwed up what would have been (and should be) a lock, even with loyalty and past appreciation factored in.

They're going to come back with everything, from staff to system to QB, the same and just blame it all on the OL (which they won't actually significantly upgrade and may even bet again on Snee and Baas staying healthy/being productive)... and it's going to fucking suck.

I think all the coaches come back, certainly all the offensive guys anyway. I do think they'll upgrade the OL though. Despite some of the ridiculous commentary around here, Reese is smart. He did a great job with the DTs last offseason. I'm confident he's going to bring some players in on the OL this year.

you've got a qb who can't consistently hit receivers in the numbers from 5 yards away and falls back into bad habits in the face of any pressure whatsoever.

you've got an o-line that can't open holes for runners.

Please all you system and adjustment people, what magic system or adjustments do you have in mind?

Personally, I see Eli's contract being re-worked in the offseason to gain some cap room to go after a receiver and a guard. Nicks is gone, if anyone wants him. I also see a change in draft philosophy away from projects like Robinson and toward guys ready to play.

a system that's different then this that Eli and the skill players can excel in. Reese would do his part in supplying the players. Ross with the draft coming up and then an OC with creativity can help.

you've got a qb who can't consistently hit receivers in the numbers from 5 yards away and falls back into bad habits in the face of any pressure whatsoever.

you've got an o-line that can't open holes for runners.

Please all you system and adjustment people, what magic system or adjustments do you have in mind?

Personally, I see Eli's contract being re-worked in the offseason to gain some cap room to go after a receiver and a guard. Nicks is gone, if anyone wants him. I also see a change in draft philosophy away from projects like Robinson and toward guys ready to play.

You got Receivers who struggle getting separations and catching the ball as well.

I can't see it. I just think it's quiet now because the Giants aren't the type to apply that kind of pressure during a season. If they were, TC would already be gone and someone like Fewell would be coaching the team, only to be fired at the end of the season.

that's not how they do business.

of everyone, the offensive staff definitely does not deserve to be back. well, that and Quinn, but Quinn obviously has pictures of someone very powerful

defense is probably closer to being decent than the offense. At times, they have played well, especially considering the ineptitude of the offense. We need another corner and a passrusher. The former can come from the draft, the latter will have to be the emergence of Moore and the resurrection of JPP.

On offense, it's the OL and a WR. Use FA money to sign a guard and draft another or a tackle. Cut Baas, Snee, and Diehl. Brewer is regressing, but can come to camp. So can Mosley, Goodin, and Herman. Maybe one emerges.

I would also favor trading down for extra picks given all the holes, and the fact that Reese is blowing a lot of selections.

Not sure what to do with Eli. His cap hit is $20M next year. But we might be better just eating that number for one season instead of restructuring and/or extending him. He has suffered from a terrible offense, but is also a big part of the problem.

Nicks seriously looks to have lost a lot of steps. Randle went MIA today. Murphy blows. Cruz has been ok. Jernigan caught a lot of passes in garbage time. When it counted, he dropped a high throw. What was supposed to be a team strength has not been.

to see so many people think that the Super Bowl clock has something to do with any of this - like it has magic powers.

The clock doesnt have magic powers, and it didnt lead to this catastrophe of a season, but its alarming to see the GM so out of touch, unaware of what terrible state the team is in, and/or how much talent its lacking.

Nicks seriously looks to have lost a lot of steps. Randle went MIA today. Murphy blows. Cruz has been ok. Jernigan caught a lot of passes in garbage time. When it counted, he dropped a high throw. What was supposed to be a team strength has not been.

I think what every poster can agree upon is that the whole offense has been a shit show. Eli, the OL, WRs, and RBs.

You will see new OL next year, a new WR, and a new TE. All I ask is for a new OC. And guess what... if Eli stinks again.... then you can think about replacing him. But to replace him when the surrounding talent is horrendous is just asinine.

that's the thing, though, it's not easy. they got to the playoffs in 11 on the backs of two players (yes, there were more contributions in the playoffs), but without Eli and JPP that don't sniff it in the first place.

now you fast forward to this year, and Eli is having a horrid year (only saved by him being somewhat clean up to this week, but very little point production), and JPP's season I can't even put into words.

that Tuck has exploded with JPP off the field speaks volumes. I have no idea where they go from here but staying the course makes no sense

I'm no expert but I noticed two things today. First, he seemed to be grinning on at least two occasions. What's up with that when you're being embarrased in your own house. Second, admittedly, Eli throws into tight coverage. But if Nicks can't catch the ball, then make sure the defender doesn't. To me, Nicks is dogging it and, in his contract year, I don't understand why.

to see so many people think that the Super Bowl clock has something to do with any of this - like it has magic powers.

The clock doesnt have magic powers, and it didnt lead to this catastrophe of a season, but its alarming to see the GM so out of touch, unaware of what terrible state the team is in, and/or how much talent its lacking.

That wasn't the gm, that was the owner. Remember his statements about the last SB. He is paying Eli like a top QB, wanted to keep Snee. The coach also begged to have DD, Webster and others return. The owner instructed his FO to pursue Herzlich and keep him on the roster. Everyone on that organization thought it would be a bounce back year. The Maras are not some sideline ownership. Chris Mara runs Reese scouting department. And the coaches have significant input in the draft and FA signing. Coughlin, John Mara and Ross have repeatly expressed this point. Snee and Webster man Coughlin was so wrong about those guys this season.

for effort, but they didn't play "well" either. Plus, the special teams is trash.

The thing that drove me craziest about the game was Eli getting picked on his 2 jump balls (with non-competitive efforts by Nicks), but Russell Wilson throws a jump ball and Amukamara barely kept it from being caught by Golden Tate.

People are raking the QB over the coals, but it's impossible to give a decent performance with an o-line this bad. Brewer was horrendous, Beatty was awful, and even Pugh gave up a terrible sack.

The defense tried, but they also missed plenty of tackles and left receivers wide open all over the field.

If I see Bill Leavy on the street any time soon, I'm going to hit him with a snowball that I've molded in the shape of a machete.

barely beat a bunch of teams with poor to awful QBs, and therefore deluded ourselves into believing that we were even mediocre. Not that we really had any chance of making the playoffs, but that a few cuts and additions, and a few decent draft picks, and we would be back again.

Not so. This is a major multiyear rebuilding effort IMO, especially on offense. The players who won those two SBs are old and should have already been cut. Eli is now also on notice IMO. Play better in 2014 or you will be cut as well.

Parcells said "You are what your record says you are." Given who we beat, I'm not even sure that is true. We barely had one hundred yards of offense. Could we even beat Jacksonville, or Houston? Cleveland would stomp us in all likelihood. The only reason we might finish six and ten is that the Redskins are as bad as we are, and it is a home game for us.

I dont think anyone will sit here and say that the performance of the offense is all ELi's fault. This O line absolutely sucks. Actually "sucks" is too kind. This may be the worst O Line I have ever seen assembled on a professional team.

That being said, when Eli DOES have time to throw, he simply is NOT making the throws. It is high, underthrown, overthrown, behind the WR...whatever. If I had a nickle for every time I heard someone say .."yeah but he still should have made the catch". Plus we cannot even calculate all of the bad decisions. How many times he did not even see a guy wide open like today in that INT to Nicks in the end zone. Myers was standing there by himself in the middle of the end zone. Could have been his easiest TD of the year. Instead, he was looking at Nicks the entire time and threw an underthrown ball to a guy who was NEVER open at any point during that play. O line had nothing to do with that one.

is a failure of a passing offense. Not just one guy, but every layer of it. That being said, Eli owns a big piece of this. Just a dreadful season. And while the situation has not been ideal, he has far from maximized his situation

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