Kelvin Scale - Digital Photography

Discussion in 'Digital Photography' started by mydpmail@gmail.com, Aug 2, 2008.

Guest

I have read that increasing the "warmth" of the Kelvin setting
improves sunrises/sunsets. My camera does not use the Kelvin scale and
I have been experimenting using the three fluorescent settings on my
Fuji S5200, which adds a little yellow, red, or both to a picture.
--Does anyone know how these settings relate to Kelvin numbers?
--Also, can anyone explain what the three types of fluorescent are?
Presumably, one is the old-fashioned very cold light and one the
newer, more-natural light, but which is which?

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On Aug 2, 9:11 am, wrote:
> I have read that increasing the "warmth" of the Kelvin setting
> improves sunrises/sunsets. My camera does not use the Kelvin scale and
> I have been experimenting using the three fluorescent settings on my
> Fuji S5200, which adds a little yellow, red, or both to a picture.
> --Does anyone know how these settings relate to Kelvin numbers?
> --Also, can anyone explain what the three types of fluorescent are?
> Presumably, one is the old-fashioned very cold light and one the
> newer, more-natural light, but which is which?

Color temperature strictly applies only to a broad continuum type
radiation, characteristic of hot bodies. Fluorescent light is
characterized by several rather narrow regions in the spectrum. The
more and broader these lines, the more it approaches a continuum like
sunlight. So fluorescent light is not necessarily colder. It is just
not a smooth curve.

Of course, one must also be aware of the difference between human
reaction and psychological response. Blue light has a higher color
temp than red light, but it is referred to by humans as cooler.

The natural emission from a fluorescent light is actually ultraviolet,
and there are phosphors that convert to the UV light to various
visible wavelengths. Even so, the spectrum is pretty choppy, and it
is hard to get good color photography from such lights. But they are
definitely getting better.

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On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 07:11:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
: I have read that increasing the "warmth" of the Kelvin setting
: improves sunrises/sunsets. My camera does not use the Kelvin scale and
: I have been experimenting using the three fluorescent settings on my
: Fuji S5200, which adds a little yellow, red, or both to a picture.
: --Does anyone know how these settings relate to Kelvin numbers?
: --Also, can anyone explain what the three types of fluorescent are?
: Presumably, one is the old-fashioned very cold light and one the
: newer, more-natural light, but which is which?

If you think you need to "improve" a sunset, the most straightforward way to
do it is to turn up the color intensity setting a bit. A sunset is usually red
enough (i.e., the color temperature is low enough) already. What you're trying
to do is make the colors stand out more, not change their wavelength.

Guest

Thank you all -- there is much more to this than I anticipated and I
will try to absorb the info.

What started this was an attempt to photograph the sunrise in a rural
area. Not just before sunrise, when the sky and clouds are
illuminated, but just after. I don't think it possible to describe
the mornings here, but to make an analogy, it looks as if there is a
huge conflagration in the next field each morning at about 5:00am.
When the sun breaches the horizon, it is a flaming ball of intense,
bright, flickering orange, that appears almost "sky" sized. However,
it appears as nothing more than a disappointing white circle in
photos. Someone suggested using a pair of polarized sunglasses as a
filter, but this changes only the surrounding colours - sky/trees/
cornfields, while the sun remains a burnout. I am not looking
directly at the sun, but using the camera screen to focus. And I do
know that pointing the camera at the sun for long periods will damage
it. I just want to know how they manage to do such things
commercially and to preserve the memory for myself.

On Aug 3, 9:43 am, wrote:
> Thank you all -- there is much more to this than I anticipated and I
> will try to absorb the info.
>
> What started this was an attempt to photograph the sunrise in a rural
> area. Not just before sunrise, when the sky and clouds are
> illuminated, but just after. I don't think it possible to describe
> the mornings here, but to make an analogy, it looks as if there is a
> huge conflagration in the next field each morning at about 5:00am.
> When the sun breaches the horizon, it is a flaming ball of intense,
> bright, flickering orange, that appears almost "sky" sized. However,
> it appears as nothing more than a disappointing white circle in
> photos. Someone suggested using a pair of polarized sunglasses as a
> filter, but this changes only the surrounding colours - sky/trees/
> cornfields, while the sun remains a burnout. I am not looking
> directly at the sun, but using the camera screen to focus. And I do
> know that pointing the camera at the sun for long periods will damage
> it. I just want to know how they manage to do such things
> commercially and to preserve the memory for myself.

Two things. First, the color temperature of actual sunlight depends
on the angle through the atmosphere. The color is lower for times of
day other than noon.

Second, while prolonged sun exposure MAY damage your camera, it
depends on the length of the exposure AND, very much, the Aperture
used. It can stand a longer exposure at a higher f/#. So if you crank
up the ISO a bit, you can use the high f/# without increasing exposure
time, reducing the fear of damage. And, near sunset, the intensity is
much reduced. So you can shoot the sun near sunset or sunrise without
damage at a setting that MAY damage it if you shot at noon.

Robert Coe wrote:
> On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 07:11:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
> : I have read that increasing the "warmth" of the Kelvin setting
> : improves sunrises/sunsets. My camera does not use the Kelvin scale and
> : I have been experimenting using the three fluorescent settings on my
> : Fuji S5200, which adds a little yellow, red, or both to a picture.
> : --Does anyone know how these settings relate to Kelvin numbers?
> : --Also, can anyone explain what the three types of fluorescent are?
> : Presumably, one is the old-fashioned very cold light and one the
> : newer, more-natural light, but which is which?
>
> If you think you need to "improve" a sunset, the most straightforward way to
> do it is to turn up the color intensity setting a bit. A sunset is usually red
> enough (i.e., the color temperature is low enough) already. What you're trying
> to do is make the colors stand out more, not change their wavelength.

Or set the white balance to daylight. In auto, the camera may try to
remove the color cast attempting to make it look 'normal'.

On Sun, 3 Aug 2008 07:43:56 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
: Thank you all -- there is much more to this than I anticipated and I
: will try to absorb the info.
:
: What started this was an attempt to photograph the sunrise in a rural
: area. Not just before sunrise, when the sky and clouds are
: illuminated, but just after. I don't think it possible to describe
: the mornings here, but to make an analogy, it looks as if there is a
: huge conflagration in the next field each morning at about 5:00am.
: When the sun breaches the horizon, it is a flaming ball of intense,
: bright, flickering orange, that appears almost "sky" sized. However,
: it appears as nothing more than a disappointing white circle in
: photos. Someone suggested using a pair of polarized sunglasses as a
: filter, but this changes only the surrounding colours - sky/trees/
: cornfields, while the sun remains a burnout. I am not looking
: directly at the sun, but using the camera screen to focus. And I do
: know that pointing the camera at the sun for long periods will damage
: it. I just want to know how they manage to do such things
: commercially and to preserve the memory for myself.

That makes it sound as though your problem is a fairly simple case of
overexposure. If you're using auto exposure settings, it may be that your lens
can't stop down enough to get the exposure right, in which case using a lower
ISO setting should help. (I believe someone suggested you turn the ISO setting
up, but that's wrong. You want to tell the camera to make the sensor less
light-sensitive, and you do that by using a lower ISO setting.) Also, make
sure you use center-weighted metering; that's the usual way to avoid blown
highlights in a backlit scene (which a sunrise or sunset is, by definition).
As a last resort, you could add a neutral-density filter.

BTW, I don't believe I've ever photographed a sunrise, but it figures to be
more difficult to get right than a sunset. That's because sunsets get dimmer
and redder, so the extra shots you take have a good chance of being usable and
may even be better. But if you let the right moment get away with a sunrise,
you may as well pack up and come back tomorrow.

On Sun, 03 Aug 2008 11:31:58 -0700, Paul Furman <> wrote:
: Robert Coe wrote:
: > On Sat, 2 Aug 2008 07:11:45 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
: > : I have read that increasing the "warmth" of the Kelvin setting
: > : improves sunrises/sunsets. My camera does not use the Kelvin scale and
: > : I have been experimenting using the three fluorescent settings on my
: > : Fuji S5200, which adds a little yellow, red, or both to a picture.
: > : --Does anyone know how these settings relate to Kelvin numbers?
: > : --Also, can anyone explain what the three types of fluorescent are?
: > : Presumably, one is the old-fashioned very cold light and one the
: > : newer, more-natural light, but which is which?
: >
: > If you think you need to "improve" a sunset, the most straightforward way to
: > do it is to turn up the color intensity setting a bit. A sunset is usually red
: > enough (i.e., the color temperature is low enough) already. What you're trying
: > to do is make the colors stand out more, not change their wavelength.
:
: Or set the white balance to daylight. In auto, the camera may try to
: remove the color cast attempting to make it look 'normal'.

A good point. I didn't think to mention it because I always shoot RAW with
auto-WB. If the camera happens to get the WB right, fine; if not, I fix it
with DPP.

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