Right Thinking from the Left Coast

Finally, Some Theater

Not being a Trump supporter, my interest in the convention has mainly been about what the speakers that I already admire have to say and to witness the inevitable clashes occurring when flawed candidates (and their supporters) get in the same room. Yes, it’s not over but I must say that so far this event has been short on drama and long on precision and efficiency. We had minimal rumbles the first day, “conscience” voters wanting their vote “unbound”, but that was ruthlessly squashed, so all that was left was how principled leaders were going to tailor their support for an unsavory candidate, to stay true to their beliefs without the need for a power washing in the end. And everything was running smoothly, until last night, enter “Lying Ted”.

This story has more layers than an onion;

1) Ted is a weasel for not honoring his pledge to support the candidate.
2) Ted would rather have Hillary win, expects Hillary to win, thus aligning himself with the #nevertrump group by admonishing vote your conscience, the same tactic used for the unbound the vote crowd.
3) Ted will not only not support Trump, but will keep Trump’s failings front and center, namely the attacks on Ted’s wife and father, reminding any that will listen how vicious the nominated candidate really is.
4) Ted is so dumb that he walked right into a Trump trap. The Trump people had a copy of the Cruz speech ahead of time, they knew Ted was going to weenie out of his pledge so they keyed the faithful in the crowd ahead of time to let him have it, to boo and chase him off the stage. If Trump supporters are anything, they are both faithful and loud, even Heidi had to run for her life.
5)Ted is so duplicitous that he had already made it known that he is running again in 2020, even with a Trump win, a backhanded attempt to freeze his supporters to not support Trump guaranteeing his defeat.

Let’s face it, nobody looks good in all this. We are reminded how vile Trump was in going after Ted’s family, we are reminded what a selfish narcissist Cruz is in making everything about him, and we are reminded what a pussy Kasich is in not even showing up at his own convention.

Pense looked good last night, he is a good man, but will bring little to the table. The Trump kids were terrific. I would like to see Eric enter politics, he is polished and passionate.

Twice this month my wife has asked me if I am going to vote for Trump, my response both times ,”Ask me in November”. I think she will vote for Trump but I am a harder sell. As mentioned before in other posts, I do not need to be reminded how disastrous Hillary will be, but I have little patience for those that say if I sit it out I am voting for Hillary.

My prognostications have changed little, I still think Trump is going to get creamed and I can’t tell you how sick and tired I am at voting for substandard candidates, it sucks. But my vote has to be earned. I get that the whole voting process is viewed like a scale, putting the positives on one side and the negatives on the other and see which side weighs more. Trump is different, his positives and negatives are more layered, less obvious. People say we need him for his SCOTUS picks, do we really know what kind of judges he will put up, and what judges will get confirmed if the GOP looses it’s majority in the Senate? People say we need him to protect the 2nd Amendment, Trump has never revealed himself to be a big gun advocate. People say we need him for his wall, really? You think a wall will get built or 12 million illegals are going to get deported? We need him to fight ISIS and keep us safe, still waiting for the particulars on that.

In closing, a few questions posed;

Is loving your country enough?
Has Trump ever showed the judgement, patience and prudence required for captaining the most powerful country on earth?
Has he ever showed the humility required in surrounding himself with more qualified more knowledgeable people to get the job done, has he ever showed remorse or contrition in making errors of judgment in the past?

I have yet to see any humility, compassion,measured response before acting and a reticence to act emotionally, a true understanding of the dignity of the office. I hope I do see all these things before November.

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I have yet to see any humility, compassion,measured response before acting and a reticence to act emotionally, a true understanding of the dignity of the office. I hope I do see all these things before November.

Is loving your country enough?Has Trump ever showed the judgement, patience and prudence required for captaining the most powerful country on earth?Has he ever showed the humility required in surrounding himself with more qualified more knowledgeable people to get the job done, has he ever showed remorse or contrition in making errors of judgment in the past?

Sadly, for me, none of these questions matter. The only one that does is would I prefer this buffoon over a criminal tyrant that would make Obama look like a genius and decent person, or not. And the answer is a categorical Hilary can, and definitely will, set the bar lower than it has dropped under Obama.

I have to admit that Trump giving the middle finger to both the mighty left’s rigged machine and the republican establishment, actually to me is a bonus. I am tired of people that play by rigged rules the other side doesn’t hold their own members to, and I am tired of getting lied to by an impotent republican establishment that is more concerned with keeping the status quo, even as the country is burned down around them by the left’s stupidity and abuses, that has as priority-one keeping their own jobs and a desperate need of being liked by people that only do so when they can use the shit republicans do to hurt other republicans, and/or the country in general, with their divide and conquer agenda.

Sort of reiterating Alex’ point — sure, Trump may totally cave on the 2nd Amendment, and may pick thoroughly unsavory characters for the SCOTUS, but these are still maybes. With Hillary, it’s virtually guaranteed that the 2nd Amendment will be gutted and that the SCOTUS will ultimately rubber stamp any and every liberal cause that comes before it.

The country may be done for if T is elected; it absolutely is done for if H is.

And yes, no matter how little patience you have, sitting it out is effectively guaranteeing an H win. If we care even one iota about this great nation, T is, for worse or for even worse, the only available option. T is definitely a crap shoot, but H is a slam dunk for banana republic statism. Remember, she effectively is a felon, who is above the law.

All good points, Alex and Icon. I guess what I want is the impossible, for him to meet me halfway, to give me something to hang my hat on. There are millions of folks just like me who need just a nudge to support him, a nudge in the form of some humility, some understanding of the momentous opportunity he has and that he needs us. A nudge in the form of relinquishing all his second grade insults, a nudge in the direction of a new found reverence for the Constitution and all the liberties that go with it, a nudge in abandoning the bombastic rhetoric, an appreciation (not scorn or contempt) for folks like myself and the other GOP leaders who are not on board, but could be easily with the appropriate behavior modification. Maybe I will get that nudge in tonight’s speech.

4) Ted is so dumb that he walked right into a Trump trap. The Trump people had a copy of the Cruz speech ahead of time, they knew Ted was going to weenie out of his pledge so they keyed the faithful in the crowd ahead of time to let him have it, to boo and chase him off the stage. If Trump supporters are anything, they are both faithful and loud, even Heidi had to run for her life.

So the theme for tonight is “Make America One” again. How is what you have described (with glee) even remotely consistent with unity? If Trump is so keen on unity, why would he do that to a former rival in his own party? How will he treat others that he has even less in common with?

One of the criticisms made about Obama is that he promised unity but delivered the opposite. Whether those criticisms are valid or not, Trump again and again, before even being elected, demonstrates via his words and his actions that he has no interest in unity at all. Yesterday’s theatre aside, you don’t say such things about women, the disabled, or Mexicans if you’re about unity.

All good points, Alex and Icon. I guess what I want is the impossible, for him to meet me halfway, to give me something to hang my hat on.

I remember when everyone told me Reagan was going to be a bad president because he was just an actor talking crazy shit and he would likely be disastrous. That was the last president I voted for. Twice. Maybe I am crazy or even stupid for thinking Trump might actually be perfect to finally destroy the stuff I hate the most from the left, even if he isn’t that great as a president otherwise. Reagan was not perfect, and I doubt Trump will come close to him, but I am holding out hope that he might mature into the role while still giving the establishment and the left the finger. Fuck unity. I want the left and what it stands for to be shown for what it is so more people can turn their backs on the ideology of envy pretending to want to do good. The country is burning down because the left has destroyed economic opportunity, pissed away the future by almost doubling the debt, made deficit spending an expectation, and here we are fretting over who can pee in what bathroom, whom have sex with whom, or that everyone needs to embrace victimhood because that makes you noble, while success makes you evil.

Trump may end up sucking, but I have absolutely no doubt that Hilary following in Obama’s footsteps, will be a disaster, not just for the American people, but for the world at large. She will make all the bad Obama has done, and man has he done a lot of horrible, look tame. This woman is dangerous, evil, self-centered, and vindictive, and now she believes she is even above all law thanks to the scumbags that have run the country into the ground. As I predicted Obama would be horrible, only to have him do even worse than my worst nightmare of him, I predict Hilary will take us to new levels of low. She is just that type of person. I would vote for Charles Manson over Hilary.

Trump might actually be perfect to finally destroy the stuff I hate the most from the left,

The lesson I took from Brexit is to pay more attention to what you’re voting for, rather than what you’re voting against. If all your side needs is a candidate that’s slightly better than the shit sandwich the other side puts up, then all you’re going to ever get is slight variations of shitty sandwiches.

Every election nowadays is about the disaster that the other side winning would be. That’s the entire conversation. I’d wager that Hillary wouldn’t be doing nearly as well now (not that she’s doing great) if she wasn’t up against Trump. All those Bernie voters are voting against Trump.

So in November there’s a big fight about who would be the worst choice, and when the dust settles, you’ve got four years of a president that we’re all just hoping ‘matures into the job’.

I’d be interested to hear what you think a President Trump would be like, and whether you’d really be up for that. Take away the Hillary thing. Do conservatives want a President Trump?

I remember when everyone told me Reagan was going to be a bad president because he was just an actor talking crazy shit and he would likely be disastrous

But Reagan wasn’t talking crazy shit. Reagan was well-informed, had an understanding of the issues and articulated his view well. One of the ironies of Reagan was that liberals all portrayed him (and still do) as an amiable dunce. But if you look at this own writings and his journals, he was very smart, very conversant with the issues. If you read D’Souza’s biography, Reagan was very plugged into the debates among his advisors and occasionally went agains everything they were saying because he thought he was right.

The liberals didn’t like what he was saying but he wasn’t just pulling shit out of his ass. I’ll have a post up later today (I hope) about Trump’s comments on NATO which are not just dangerously uninformed but dangerous overall. On issue after issue, Trump not only shows no understanding but <i>no interest</i> in learning anything about it. He’s been the front-runner for a year now, the nominee for a few months. His understanding of the economy, trade, foreign policy, law, etc. is no better than it was before he started running. If anything, it’s regressed.

If you’re going to “smash the system” even assuming that’s a nobel goal, you have to know how the system works. The system fights back. You need a skilled swordsman, not a dude with a club and a blindfold. You have to distinguish between the parts of the system we need (e.g., NATO) and the parts we don’t (e.g., corporate welfare).

Cress, as he often does, makes a great point about the Brexit. Maybe the Brexit was a great idea. But the Brexit forces had no plan as to what to do if they won the vote. And now they’ve got the government and no clue what WTF they’re doing. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they found some excuse to get out of Brexit. We’re looking at a similar possibility with Trump. He has no idea what he’s going to do once he’s in office. Hell, it’s rumored he offered to let Kasich basically run the country as Veep.

The lesson I took from Brexit is to pay more attention to what you’re voting for, rather than what you’re voting against.

In case I was not clear Cress, I already did that. And I am now convinced that even someone as crazy and dangerous as Charles Manson is likely to cause less harm that another member of the establishment, doubly so for democrats, but especially Hillary, will cause. After Obama we can only go up. That is, unless we get president Hilary. In that case we are truly going to descend into hell.

No, he was just accused of being crazy, inept, and dangerous by the very same establishment doing it to Trump now, and would like you to forget they vilified Reagan and accused him of wanting to destroy mankind for daring to oppose the poor Soviet war machine and bring on Armageddon. I lived through that. And I remember how he was despised and vilified for not bowing down to the might of the press and the left. That they act today as if they respected Reagan and actually agreed with what he did galls me knowing what I know and is another reason I am glad for Trump. Anyone that helps bring in the demise of the media and the establishment, is a good bet for me. I don’t want to compromise anymore, because that is just a delay tactic to let the crooks keep doing more of the same while also rigging the game even more so when we finally realize they are never going to stop fucking us over, we can’t stop them.

Look let me ask you people a favor: stop trying to tell people why Trump is such a disaster and sell Hilary. If Trump is really that bad, then you team Hilary people should have no problem pointing out how much better she is. Right?

For all the pundits (those already on the Trumpmobile) that praised him for his Demosthenes like delivery, I heard nothing new. Then, right afterwards I read that he is going to spend x amount of dollars to destroy both Cruz and Kasich, now there is a real uniter for ya.

My husband doesn’t follow politics as closely as I do, and gets most of his information from O’Reilly, and what I tell him in my regular Trump rants, though he did watch the Republican primary debates. He has no use for Trump, but still can’t make himself say he won’t vote for him, though he says it gets harder all the time.

Friday morning while on our way to a funeral a good distance away, I caught up on the latest on Twitter on my iPad.

“Guess what Donald Trump is talking about this morning,” I said to him. “Dumping on Cruz and his dad, and Kasich.”

His jaw dropped as he turned to me. “You’ve got to be kidding!”

Nope.

The day after when he could have let it go, taken the high road, proven himself the better man, he continued to prove himself the vindictive, spiteful little man that he is.

You are a predictable scumbag CM. Full of vitriol about Trump. But all you have for Clinton, a criminal, a despicable person that lies constantly and has caused the death of so many good people, a woman that holds grudges and will make Obama’s enemy’s list look tame, is excuses. I have some kind of mental disorder for pointing out she is a liar, she has killed people to make money for herself and her friends (that was what Benghazi was about), and she now is above the law. You are a despicable entity.

Exactly what is she going to be able to do that will result in a descent “into hell”?

Why would I waste my time rehashing this? You already know exactly what this means but don’t care.Scumbags like you have nothing but a double standard and have no problem with someone being a monster as long as they are from your team. Look at how Obama has made Boosh look tame, and you still not only continue to attack Boosh, but defend the indefensible from Obama.

How about you actually answer my question about why a criminal that basically used her power to stay above the law, kind of like a banana republic dictator, that has manipulated foreign policy and let people die in order for her and friends to make money, has been part of the most corrupt and despicable administration in my lifetime, and constantly lies and breaks the law is the better choice?

Don’t bother. I know you can’t defend her record, which is why you are constantly ranting about Trump being bad but never telling anyone what qualifies Hilary for anything but making license plates in stripes or orange jumpsuits.

The day after when he could have let it go, taken the high road, proven himself the better man, he continued to prove himself the vindictive, spiteful little man that he is.

Yeah, like Cruz let it go, right?

When people like you give us president Hillary, and she makes the Obama abuses look tame, don’t get mad when people say you were responsible for doing that, and don’t share your regret. There will be no sympathy.

That was not a comeback repomom. That was me pointing out the obvious factor you seem to not really want to admit. Your expectation that Trump should have rolled over to show class, while your guy isn’t expected to do the same only serves to show you are being disingenuous and petty about this whole thing.

Oh, save it! When Hillary wins the people to blame won’t be me, but those who gave us such a shitty candidate to run against her.

You keep saying that to yourself. After all, saying it is my ball and because I don’t get to play the game the way I wanted I am taking it home, makes others the ones with the problem. Very mature. I guess I now see why you are unable to see how weak your requirement that Trump take the high road when Cruz did not, is.

Trump was never my first choice, but I am certainly not going to make the mistakes I made that gave me Obama – twice – because Hillary makes him look nice. You get to make yours. But don’t act as if you have the moral high ground when you don’t even come close to that.

while your guy isn’t expected to do the same only serves to show you are being disingenuous and petty about this whole thing.

My guy? Ted Cruz is not my guy. I’ve never once shown support for him, I’ve called him a self-serving weasel myself in the past. I was going to vote for him in the Texas primary in an effort to stop Donald Trump, but in the end, with the polls that afternoon indicating Cruz would win, I voted my conscience (oh, there it is, that evil word to be booed!) for my guy Marco Rubio.

Yes, I cheered Cruz’s convention speech that night, I liked his message. I liked that he talked about principle, and the Constitution, and yes, voting our conscience. I thought it was a great speech, I would have liked to have heard a similar message from Rubio, and was disappointed that I didn’t.

Did Cruz have a motive beyond a patriotic message as payback to Donald Trump for his personal attacks on his family, and possibly his own political gain? Sure he did. Did I try to defend them here the next day? No, I didn’t.

So, Ted Cruz is a vindictive little man. I have no problem saying that. But so what? He is not the chosen Republican candidate for President of the United States. Donald Trump is, and he had a chance to prove himself worthy of that position the next morning, and he failed miserably.

saying it is my ball and because I don’t get to play the game the way I wanted I am taking it home,

This is so old, Alex. It’s not about bad sportsmanship, no matter how you much you try to make it so.

I despise Donald Trump, I see nothing worthy about him. I believe he is totally unfit in every way to be the leader of our country, for reasons that have been pointed out by myself and others, especially Hal, numerous times. The man, in my opinion, is insane, and not just insane, but dangerously so.

Until he proves himself otherwise, I cannot make myself cast a vote for him. And nothing you or anyone else says, no matter what guilt trip you and others, including my close friends, try to put on me, is going to change that.

This is so old, Alex. It’s not about bad sportsmanship, no matter how you much you try to make it so.

Just like it isn’t letting Hillary get elected right? Because that is precisely what you just told me here with the rest of that word salad.I despise Hillary, which is why I am voting against her. YOu despise Trump… You can follow that line of thinking right?

I despise Donald Trump, I see nothing worthy about him. I believe he is totally unfit in every way to be the leader of our country, for reasons that have been pointed out by myself and others, especially Hal, numerous times. The man, in my opinion, is insane, and not just insane, but dangerously so.

Until he proves himself otherwise, I cannot make myself cast a vote for him. And nothing you or anyone else says, no matter what guilt trip you and others, including my close friends, try to put on me, is going to change that.

I hear you. The “beauty” (it’s not good but I need to find the positive!) of living in CT is my vote doesn’t matter, so Gary Johnson is getting it. I don’t have to vote for Trump to vote against Hillary.

Ah, no, the vitriol and emotion is all with you Alex, as I pointed out.

But all you have for Clinton, a criminal, a despicable person that lies constantly and has caused the death of so many good people, a woman that holds grudges and will make Obama’s enemy’s list look tame, is excuses.

Where is your evidence that I’ve made excuses for Hillary? And what’s the problem with an enemy list, you’re just promoted one yourself. Clearly the list isn’t the issue, it’s who’s on it that counts. Trump has also indicated that on his first day he’ll carry out a purge. We all know who did those. But I guess, to you, a purge is now ok, it’s all about who gets purged.

I have some kind of mental disorder for pointing out she is a liar, she has killed people to make money for herself and her friends (that was what Benghazi was about), and she now is above the law.

You must have a mental disorder, it’s really the only explanation.

Scumbags like you have nothing but a double standard and have no problem with someone being a monster as long as they are from your team

Again, I haven’t made excuses or provided support for Hillary. But yeah, that’s exactly what I’m observing/pointing out about you. Because it’s all here in black and white. You’ve railed against x, y and z for years and now you’re signing up for a guy actively promising x, y and z.

Look at how Obama has made Boosh look tame, and you still not only continue to attack Boosh, but defend the indefensible from Obama.

Where do I continue to attack Bush? When did I defend the indefensible from Obama? Yet again, for the nine millionth time, please substantiate your accusations with evidence. You always claim you’re into that whole ‘evidence’ thing…except it somehow never has to apply to you. Why is that?

How about you actually answer my question about why a criminal that basically used her power to stay above the law, kind of like a banana republic dictator, that has manipulated foreign policy and let people die in order for her and friends to make money, has been part of the most corrupt and despicable administration in my lifetime, and constantly lies and breaks the law is the better choice?

As JimK points out, she isn’t the only choice. You can choose not to vote, or vote for someone else.

Now, why don’t you answer the question cress asked. Can you do that?

I’d be interested to hear what you think a President Trump would be like, and whether you’d really be up for that. Take away the Hillary thing. Do conservatives want a President Trump?

I’d be interested to hear what you think a President Trump would be like, and whether you’d really be up for that. Take away the Hillary thing. Do conservatives want a President Trump?

I will take a crack at it, but first some housekeeping items to factor in;

Conservatives are not monolithic, some like him, some don’t. Some expect him to change not only the entire landscape of Washington, but to instill a newfound nationalistic pride in it’s citizens, others see this as empty rhetoric, a jingoistic scheme that appeals to emotion. Some expect him to undo all the preconceived damage of Obamanomics and his executive orders, others are fearful he will adopt the same lawless techniques to circumvent Constitutional protocols.

I know you said “take away the Hillary thing” but that is impossible, since Hillary was always his target and the catalyst for the groundswell fomenting into his nomination.

Describing a Trump presidency is a bit like describing how to ride a great white shark or hooking up with two supermodels at once, the odds are so remote, so infinitesimally likely that it borders on fantasy.

Now that that is out of the way, to answer your question about what a Trump presidency would look like, I would not expect much of anything. I suspect that once in office, once he figures out how government actually works and that the vast majority of his promises can not become reality without Congressional backing, he would resolve himself to ,”Crap, this job is not going to be that much fun at all”.

Hopefully the GOP will still have both houses and he would work with Ryan to get his A Better Way implemented, but even this is not a given. A reduction of the corporate tax rate would be nice, a better solution to Obamacare, the swift death of Dodd Frank, the FLRA and some serious handcuffing of the EPA. A better understanding that the private sector creates jobs, not the government. I don’t expect any wall or any massive deportations, but whatever he can do to seal up a porous national border and to stem the influx of refugees without serious genuine and effective vetting first, that would be nice. And SCOTUS appointees that don’t suck.

It would also be nice if he didn’t start any trade wars or piss off our friends, and honor commitments to our NATO allies.

But probably most importantly, to grasp the simple concept that he represents Americans, all Americans, even the ones that did not vote for him, and work towards a better future for all of us.

Ah, no, the vitriol and emotion is all with you Alex, as I pointed out.

Ah, I see! So you claim that because you are coming at it through slight and acts of deceit and obfuscation, implying instead of actually making any kind of stance, and pretend to be doing so in all humility, that you are not a scumbag? Shit, that is the same defense that religion says is used by the devil and by democrats. Nice try,, but acting all civil while telling people to take a giant bite out of a delicious shit sandwich doesn’t give you the high ground: it makes you a used car salesmen at best, and the scumbag that you are for those of us that see through it.

You must have a mental disorder, it’s really the only explanation.

Says the asshole that is here only to cause disruption and adds nothing to the conversation but bullshit. HA!

Again, I haven’t made excuses or provided support for Hillary.

Yes you have. You have been here attacking her opposition constantly, through innuendo and under the pretense that the questions you are asking come from concern rather than an ulterior motive, but that is what you have been doing constantly, on every topic. You might think you are being clever, but you are not.

Where do I continue to attack Bush?

Here let me show you: Obama lost Iraq after our military did the impossible, against active opposition from democrats, whom did their best to make us lose.

As JimK points out, she isn’t the only choice. You can choose not to vote, or vote for someone else.

Way to miss the qualifier he added. He believes that in the “People’s Republic of Connecticut” his vote doesn’t count, which I disagree with. Yes, CT will go for the democrat. That is because those of us that work are outnumbered by those that vote for a living. But the choice not to vote, or to vote for someone else, still means you are making a choice that favors Hillary. In some places the impact will be bigger than others.

I am very familiar with the line of thought that says that I am not to be blamed for someone bad being elected because I never voted for them, but then again, have even used it myself, but I have realized it is just a copout when that person wins and proceeds to destroy everything (Obama). If that reasoning helps JimK sleep well at night, then more power to him. But he should be prepared that some people will not see much difference between what he did and voting for Hillary in our system.

Now, why don’t you answer the question cress asked. Can you do that?

What question was that? Is it this one?

I’d be interested to hear what you think a President Trump would be like, and whether you’d really be up for that.

The answer is simple and was already given. I am not hoping Trump matures into anything. In fact, it doesn’t factor into my equation at all. I don’t need Trump to say or do anything to convince me he will be a a mediocre president, let alone, a good one. I was blatantly obvious about the fact that I am certain that at his worst he can’t compete with Clinton in nastiness and vileness and will be the better choice. I explicitly mentioned that I would vote for Charles Manson over Clinton, as I have far more faith that he would be less destructive or bad for the country. Clinton is the absolute worst that the establishment represents. I have owned that. Heck if you want a real positive, it is that the LSM will finally rediscover the need to do their job. I can put up with the massive amount of lying and made up bullshit that will come from them, but at least it will provide some kind of check and balance. Clinton will have none of that. In fact, they will lie and cover for her, like they have been doing, to all of our detriment.

We are doomed as a country. People are attacking Trump because he is not PC, doesn’t like illegal immigration, acts like a clown and a boor, will not play the establishment’s game, and they all feel bad about him. Hillary, a criminal and crook with a history of lying, cheating, stealing, and making decisions that cost others their lives, a crook that has sold out the country, on numerous occasions for personal gain, and espouses policies that will double down on the financial freefall we are in, they ignore.

That is the madness we face. We have a country in dire economic predicament and leading the world into the abyss, and the left has done its best to make the election about who gets to pee in what bathroom, or that all white people are racists, yet again. All so they can continue to fleece the productive. If so many innocents wouldn’t have to suffer along with the idiots that have given us this, I would actually be rooting for things to fall apart finally.

What you really mean is by using logic and being calm and not just ranting like a madman about collectivism ever single day, spewing personal abuse everywhere, and making continual unsupported accusations. Having a ‘stance’ for the sake of it isn’t a virtue.

You have been here attacking her opposition constantly

Attacking A doesn’t equate to support for B.

Here let me show you: Obama lost Iraq after our military did the impossible, against active opposition from democrats, whom did their best to make us lose.

How is that me continuing to attack Bush? Makes no sense Alex.

But the choice not to vote, or to vote for someone else, still means you are making a choice that favors Hillary.

You’re in a position where you’re able to actually vote for what you want, not what you don’t want. If you vote for Trump, it’ll be because you support him, not because you’re deranged about Hillary. This is why cress was keen to get a response about Trump himself.

proceeds to destroy everything (Obama).

Derangement.

But he should be prepared that some people will not see much difference between what he did and voting for Hillary in our system.

If Hillary is going to win the state anyway then there the big difference because voting for Trump would have made no difference. Whereas if you actively vote for Trump knowing it makes no difference, then you’re just actively voting for him as a sign of support, you’re not ‘holding your nose to defeat Hillary’.

What you really mean is by using logic and being calm and not just ranting like a madman about collectivism ever single day,

Man you do know how to make me laugh. You using logic? That would be like a vampire sunbathing dude. You may truly believe you are using logic, but nobody with two firing neurons should be fooled.

BTW, you prove my point in spaded when you so cavalierly try to refute – without dealing with the facts, at all – the miserable track record of collectivism as “rantings about collectivism”. Are you making the argument that what I say is false or in anyway disingenuous? Are you refuting that over 100 million people have not been murdered and billions have been held hostage across the globe by it? Or do you object to the fact that I remind people what collectivism looks like when I talk about such great successes as the USSR, Communist China, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and a slew of others that were ass raped by collectivism? Does it piss you off that I correct people that pretend fascism isn’t another form of collectivism? Or maybe when I point out to you that the crony pretend capitalism system the left has straddled us with is not capitalism, which is why it is failing us all? Is it my tone you object to? I should be less disgusted with your adulation for that vile and evil ideology? Is that what makes it a “ranting”? Let me politely ask you to go fuck yourself. Politely, you know.

You must have forgotten, conveniently I add, that others have called you out on your bullshit, and done so repeatedly, right. Any you may pretend that my tone and lack of respect for you comes from anything other than the fact that you proved to me you are nothing but a scumbag and liar, pretending to discuss things in good faith, but really amounting to not much more than a mouthpiece for an evil ideology. I seriously wonder who is paying you to invest so much time peddling your bullshit. You deserve nothing but scorn. You earn it in spades. But hey, project! That’s what the left is about anyway.

I guess what I’m taking from both your comments is that you’re not voting ‘for’ a president, you’re voting to ‘stop’ a president. Which is a problem (its also the same on the liberal side. I’m not actually sure Hillary would have shored upm the nomination if it wasn’t for the Trump boogeyman)

The problem is that by setting the bar so low on both sides, it’s a competition about who is the not-worst. I think Hillary will be better than Trump. You think Trump will be better than Hillary. We can argue back and forth about who’s right – but the thing we agree on is that whatever happens, neither of us will be happy with whoever ends up in the Whitehouse.

More unfounded accusations. Where has my logic failed? Again, I’m not the one posting all the bile and hate, all fuelled on high emotion.

No you are the one obfuscating, ignoring facts, lying and pretending you are trying to have an honest argument of any kind while all you are doing is being disruptive, but hey, pretend the problem is me because I call you out for being a douche bag.

Yes. Extremely false and disingenous. You’re seemingly unable to differentiate between anything. It makes it impossible for you to discuss anything.

Ah, I got it. The problem is that I am not as nuanced as you libs, unwilling to call a shit sandwich a gourmet meal, and more importantly immune to the usual tactics of impugning my character, motivations, or thinking, so that’s why nothing can be discussed with me.

And here I thought that the problem was that you had nothing of value to contribute, deflect every time you are called on that, and then pretend to hold the high ground. My bad! (that was sarcasm)