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Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by bvandegraff

Interesting to compare CAJ's record with Rick Barnes and Ben Howland, who were hired at their schools the same year (were they both still on the market when Battle hired Avery?). Avery and Barnes have the exact same record, and Howland is 2 games behind them. However, this season, while Bama is again 17-12, UT is 26-3 and MSU 21-8. The impression is that the other 2 teams have surpassed a stagnant Bama. I liked the hire of Avery and thought he would bring new energy to the program, but am as baffled as the rest of you with the results.

These stats are a snapshot, of course. If the team can rebound from yesterday's disappointment, smoke Auburn Tuesday and put together a big run to finish the season (preferably in the NCAA), then maybe Byrne can lower the temperature on Avery's seat. Otherwise, he has a decision to make.

I couldn't remember so I looked it up because I wanted to know this myself.

Alabama fired xCAG March 15, 2015.
MSU hired CBH March 24, 2015.
UT hired CRB March 31, 2015.
I'm not sure of the exact dates but there is an article on si.com dated March 23, 2015 that states Alabama will pursue Gregg Marshall and then an article on al.com dated April 2, 2015 states that Marshall announced that he is staying at WSU.
Alabama hired CAJ April 5, 2015.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by 81usaf92

Alabama isn't a basketball or a men's multi sport school (unless you count golf). I think Alabama is probably the 5th to 7th best job in the SEC, and the Marshall fiasco proved that. I'm not convinced firing Johnson will magically put us back into a Newton, Sanderson, or Gottfried era.

That hasn't always been the case and there is no good excuse for it to be that way now. Our baseball team went to the CWS several times in the 80's and 90s and played for the NC at least twice. As someone else said we were #2 in the SEC historically behind UK until around 1992 when Wimp left. We've made some bad hires since then and have not invested in the men's program as we should have which is why we are now where we are at. Back when Wimp left we could have hired Bob Huggins but we cheaped out and hired Hobbs instead and the downward spiral began almost immediately. Hopefully the baseball program is on the way back and I still have hopes that the basketball team will be in the final four before I kick the bucket.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by imauafan

I couldn't remember so I looked it up because I wanted to know this myself.

Alabama fired xCAG March 15, 2015.
MSU hired CBH March 24, 2015.
UT hired CRB March 31, 2015.
I'm not sure of the exact dates but there is an article on si.com dated March 23, 2015 that states Alabama will pursue Gregg Marshall and then an article on al.com dated April 2, 2015 states that Marshall announced that he is staying at WSU.
Alabama hired CAJ April 5, 2015.

Anyone know how these dates affected the first year recruiting for these coaches? I got the feeling that Johnson was more or less behind for his first year.

Also, I don't know if Barnes got lucky that his players turned out to be as talented as they are or if he is better at seeing talent than others; maybe has a eye like Saban for recruiting.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by imauafan

That hasn't always been the case and there is no good excuse for it to be that way now. Our baseball team went to the CWS several times in the 80's and 90s and played for the NC at least twice. As someone else said we were #2 in the SEC historically behind UK until around 1992 when Wimp left. We've made some bad hires since then and have not invested in the men's program as we should have which is why we are now where we are at. Back when Wimp left we could have hired Bob Huggins but we cheaped out and hired Hobbs instead and the downward spiral began almost immediately. Hopefully the baseball program is on the way back and I still have hopes that the basketball team will be in the final four before I kick the bucket.

But if we judge basketball like we do football then we arenít #2. No final fours and no NCs. There are quite a few SEC teams with both

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by NationalTitles17

There is no promise that a change will lift the Tide. It could get worse, that's true. It's also true Bama is currently a 2nd rate school in men's BB, but traditionally until 1992 or so it was 2nd only behind Kentucky.

It's a good thing I'm not making the decisions but I would put on a full court press for the best coach I could persuade with $$$, facility upgrades, and full support.

I don't think things are going to really improve until we make a commitment to facilities. The same thing goes for our womens team. Who ever is the lucky coach inherit those facility will drive a renaissance for Alabama basketball. We do better than most with the same to worse facilities as ours.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

From what I recall, Howland was never a legitimate option because he has history with Adidas, which State uses.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

"I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
-- Coach Bryant

"We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
-- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by 81usaf92

Alabama isn't a basketball or a men's multi sport school (unless you count golf). I think Alabama is probably the 5th to 7th best job in the SEC, and the Marshall fiasco proved that. I'm not convinced firing Johnson will magically put us back into a Newton, Sanderson, or Gottfried era.

Looking back, our big successes in basketball have often come at times when the football team was off a bit. Exception being in the mid-70s under CM Newton, while Bryant was in the middle of his second heyday.

But we've been successful at the national level in softball, gymnastics and most recently golf. There's no reason we can't be successful in basketball as well. I agree that facilities are an issue, though. Personally, I'd rather scrape the Coliseum and build something else entirely -- probably in the 10,000 capacity range.

Interesting side note: Memorial Coliseum pushing twice as old today, as Foster Auditorium was when it was replaced by Memorial. Foster was built in 1939, and replaced by the Coliseum in 1968, 29 years later. Acknowledging a couple of major renovations, Memorial is now over 50 years old.

But I'm told that the difference between gutting the existing building and replacing it entirely is about $50MM. A big number, even for Alabama.

Last edited by 4Q Basket Case; March 4th, 2019 at 04:20 AM.

You can't reason a man out of a position he didn't reason himself into.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by 81usaf92

But if we judge basketball like we do football then we aren’t #2. No final fours and no NCs. There are quite a few SEC teams with both

You don't judge basketball the same way you do football. No other SEC team (not counting UK) was as consistent as we were throughout the 70's and 80's. We won several SEC tournament championships and played for some others. We were in the NCAA tourney just about every year and had several years where we made the sweet 16. Back then we were always in the conversation of teams that had an outside shot of making a run to the final 4. We never did but if we had no one would have been shocked because we were that good. At one time in the late 80's/early 90's we were in the top 5 schools for number of players in the NBA. I was in school at UA from 1988-92 and we have several NBA players on our roster during that time. Several SEC schools did have good basketball teams for short periods of time and did some things that we were not able to do. The LSU team that made it to the final 4 in 1985 was a fluke and could have easily have been us. The NCAA put us, UK, and LSU all in the same regional. We had an awesome team with Bobbie Lee Hurt, Buck Johnson, and Derrick McKey that could have played with almost any time in the country but we could not beat UK that year. That beat us twice in the regular season and then again in the SEC tournament (championship game?) and then we had to face them in the sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament and they beat us for the 4th time. Then in the elite 8 UK lost to a LSU team that had gotten hot in the tournament. I contend that UK had a letdown after beating us and that was the only way LSU was able to knock them off to make it to the final 4.

I don't think our current day fans understand how good our athletic department was for many years. Coach Bryant was not only the greatest football coach of all time but he was also a dang good athletic director. He hired folks like CM Newton, Barry Shollenberger, Sarah Patterson, Wimp Sanderson, and probably some others that I have forgotten about. Our baseball had several great players and made some runs to the CWS including a loss to Texas and Roger Clements in the NCG. I've already talked about the basketball program. We all know what Sarah Patterson did with the ladies gymnastics. I don't know if he hired Rick Moody or not (probably not) but Rick Moody had the ladies basketball program in the NCG once or twice. The only reason we have slipped as far down as we have is because we let it happen but it has not always been that way.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by RTR91

From what I recall, Howland was never a legitimate option because he has history with Adidas, which State uses.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I hope we don't choose our basketball coach based on the shoes we wear. I know there are large dollar corporate sponsorship's in place but good Lord if we can't hire this guy because he is a Nike guy or this other guy because he is an Under Armor person and we're a whatever shoe school, that is beyond ridiculous. I'm not criticizing you because I'm sure there is some truth to that but I have to believe if you wave enough dollars in front of a adidas coach to come to a nike school he would do so.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Didn't realize coaches now have their own deals with shoe companies. I thought it was only the schools themselves. Seems weird that coaches would take themselves out of the running for any job because of a shoe deal (anyone think K/Duke is putting out feelers to other companies after the infamous Exploding Nike?). But I guess it shouldn't come as a surprise.

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by imauafan

Well I hope we don't choose our basketball coach based on the shoes we wear. I know there are large dollar corporate sponsorship's in place but good Lord if we can't hire this guy because he is a Nike guy or this other guy because he is an Under Armor person and we're a whatever shoe school, that is beyond ridiculous. I'm not criticizing you because I'm sure there is some truth to that but I have to believe if you wave enough dollars in front of a adidas coach to come to a nike school he would do so.

Look back at at the first FBI trial. The overlap with the shoe companies and the coaches is absurd. Adidas's contract with Louisville gave Pitino a significant kickback. There's also the overlap in recruits going to schools with the same shoe as their AAU team.

We'll see how things change over the next few years after the FBI case, but there's a reason someone with big time experience like Howland stuck with the shoe company he knows.

"I don't know what class is but I can tell when one has it, you can tell from a mile away"
-- Coach Bryant

"We always talk about playing 60 minutes but this is a 60-10 game: the 60 minutes of the game and the 10 minutes in the locker room after the game that you remember for the rest of your life."
-- Nick Saban day after beating Clemson

Re: OFFICIAL POSTGAME THREAD - Bama v. LSU...

Originally Posted by imauafan

You don't judge basketball the same way you do football. No other SEC team (not counting UK) was as consistent as we were throughout the 70's and 80's. We won several SEC tournament championships and played for some others. We were in the NCAA tourney just about every year and had several years where we made the sweet 16. Back then we were always in the conversation of teams that had an outside shot of making a run to the final 4. We never did but if we had no one would have been shocked because we were that good. At one time in the late 80's/early 90's we were in the top 5 schools for number of players in the NBA. I was in school at UA from 1988-92 and we have several NBA players on our roster during that time. Several SEC schools did have good basketball teams for short periods of time and did some things that we were not able to do. The LSU team that made it to the final 4 in 1985 was a fluke and could have easily have been us. The NCAA put us, UK, and LSU all in the same regional. We had an awesome team with Bobbie Lee Hurt, Buck Johnson, and Derrick McKey that could have played with almost any time in the country but we could not beat UK that year. That beat us twice in the regular season and then again in the SEC tournament (championship game?) and then we had to face them in the sweet 16 of the NCAA tournament and they beat us for the 4th time. Then in the elite 8 UK lost to a LSU team that had gotten hot in the tournament. I contend that UK had a letdown after beating us and that was the only way LSU was able to knock them off to make it to the final 4.

I don't think our current day fans understand how good our athletic department was for many years. Coach Bryant was not only the greatest football coach of all time but he was also a dang good athletic director. He hired folks like CM Newton, Barry Shollenberger, Sarah Patterson, Wimp Sanderson, and probably some others that I have forgotten about. Our baseball had several great players and made some runs to the CWS including a loss to Texas and Roger Clements in the NCG. I've already talked about the basketball program. We all know what Sarah Patterson did with the ladies gymnastics. I don't know if he hired Rick Moody or not (probably not) but Rick Moody had the ladies basketball program in the NCG once or twice. The only reason we have slipped as far down as we have is because we let it happen but it has not always been that way.

Baseball has slipped for different reasons, some outside the ADís hands. Basketball has slipped to a big degree because there is a small number of coaches that want to play second fiddle to football and even fewer that want to play in an arena like Coleman.

I think if you are being honest then you would put Florida, LSU, and Auburn up as better jobs than Alabama. But a lot of Alabama fans just want to continue to say ď we are the 2nd best program in SEC history so we need to show it in the trophy caseĒ. We arenít that program anymore and probably wonít ever be that program when everything is geared towards one direction in the AD.