The mom says the note referred to the sick child as a "loser" and that he had not had his immunizations. Katie Smart says she brought her nine-month-old to the hospital, after she saw her son twist his ankle. He also had a fever, so to be safe, she wanted him checked out. That visit came with a message, Smart says, she didn't deserve.

"I did feel judged," said Smart.

I confess to mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I think that leaving a note like that is inappropriate for a professional. Nurses and doctors probably see a lot of patients making ill-considered and even life-threatening decisions, but that is the privilege of adults in (presumably) their right minds. Health-care providers can advise but for the most part not make decisions for adults under their care. Or children under the care of (presumably) competent guardians.

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"For her to say that, she doesn't know why I choose not to vac," said Smart

Smart says she researched the ingredients of vaccinations given to children, and that's why she and her husband decided not to inject two of their three kids.

On the other hand, I have little sympathy for parents / guardians who don't "vac" their dependents without a very good reason. Unless those children have health issues that would contraindicate it, there simply isn't any rational reason to not give them standard immunizations. There was great controversy over the use of the mercury-derived preservative thimerosal in vaccines some years ago, part of the thoroughly discredited vaccines-cause-autism myth. Despite zero evidence for it actually causing harm, thimerosal is no longer (AFAIK) in use.

So I don't know what in vaccines Smart sees as so dangerous that she'd rather risk her children being harmed or even killed by entirely preventable illnesses. For that matter her non-vaccinated kids could serve as hosts for those illnesses and spread them to children that have legitimate reasons for not being immunized, or are too young to have had it done. It baffles and infuriates me.

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Live a good life... If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. I am not afraid.--Marcus Aurelius

Maybe the nurse should have secretly vac'ed the kid and then left a note saying that the child was now a winner? I don't get the no-shots parents either.....

In poor countries where kids still regularly die of measles and diphtheria and are paralyzed by polio, moms walk miles to get their kids vaccinated at clinics. Those women would probably beat that not-Smart woman silly and take away her kids if they could.

No nurse with any sense of professionalism would do such a thing. You are there to treat your patients not judge them. That kid didn't get any choice whether or not to be vaccinated so how is he a loser? Unfortunately it tends to be next to impossible to educate the anti-vac types whose heads are chock full of misinformation. Why they accept the word of fake titted celebrities and retired sell outs over practicing medical professionals is beyond me.

My first reaction was that the nurse was doing a public service by labelling the kid. I went away and thought about it and concluded I was right first time. Then I had the idea that this is Darwinism at work: the attrition rate in the unprotected must be higher than those who are vaccinated.

The solution would come if a parent refused to have their child vaccinated and then the child (or public prosecutor or an insurance company) were to sue them when the child suffered the effects of the disease against which they otherwise would have been protected.

I can’t agree with the thought that

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I have little sympathy for parents / guardians who don't "vac" their dependent without a very good reason. Unless those children have health issues that would contraindicate it,

This is the job of a doctor, not a parent. You can’t make a decision if you yourself are unskilled in the area.

A taste of your own medicine.“Doctor,” said Sacha, “Can you give me your assurance that this injection won't harm my children?”“Well, there's always some risk, Ms Melham. I do have a leaflet that explains everything...”Sacha placed a finger on the table.“I don't need a leaflet, Doctor. I simply want your assurance that this injection will cause Willow and Gregory no harm...”Doctor James Ferriday gazed at the finger.“As I said, there is always a small risk, but if you look, you will see that this is less than the probability of...”Sacha held up her hand. “Please, Doctor. Don't try and confuse the issue.”“I'm not trying to confuse the issue, I'm simply presenting you with the facts...”Sacha rose to her feet.“Well, I think I've heard enough. Willow, Gregory, put your coats back on. Thank you, Doctor, we'll be... what's that?”James's screen flashed red and green.“Oh dear,” he said, reading the yellow writing scrolling across the monitor. “I think you should take a seat.”[…]

(I think Screwtape might have posted this some time ago…)

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Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Not professional, but worse yet, she mislabeled the problem. Mommy is the loser here. Luckily the kid is too young to be affected by the offense, but mommy darned well be hurt by it. And she needs to be told that all she needs to feel better is get her kid vaccinated.

I carry no water for mom here and I really sympathize with the nurse but, calling the baby or the mom a loser is not going to get anyone vaccinated. As a health professional, the nurse has an obligation to use tact and diplomacy to deliver the best care she can. Insults, even when well founded, just alienate people and amount to nothing more than self indulgent venting.

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I was a hidden treasure and I longed to be known. So I created the Creation so that I may be known. hadith qudsi

Welcome zvuv, and thanks for the short name. So much easier to remember. Wish I'd known that when I joined.

And of course, you are absolutely right. Name calling adds nothing to a solution. It is hard to avoid in the face of ignorance and/or wrong thinking, but contributes nothing and, as in this case, usually makes the victim more defensive. The last thing this little baby needs is for its mom to retreat further into the wrong world.

I'm as guilty of this as anyone else here, but you have a very valid point. I do hope you stay around awhile and make more of the same.

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It isn't true that non-existent gods can't do anything. For instance, they were able to make me into an atheist.

Saw in the paper today where rickets was making a come back. Think it was in the UK. I thought that one had been wiped off the face of the Earth.

In the same way that it is not possible to eradicate scurvy or beriberi, rickets can never be eradicated. It is caused by a deficiency of vitamin D, which is produced naturally by sunlight on skin and is also present in some foods. Blacks and Asians are most prone when they move to countries with clearly variable day lengths. Their supply is usually from sunlight alone, which, in the tropics, is quite adequate, however their diet is often low in Vitamin D. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Rickets/pages/introduction.aspx

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Nobody says “There are many things that we thought were natural processes, but now know that a god did them.”

Then I had the idea that this is Darwinism at work: the attrition rate in the unprotected must be higher than those who are vaccinated.

We should advise all fundamentalists against getting vaccinations ... doing so is the mark of the beast ... there are tiny radio chips in each vial and they will cause the person to fall under the control of the Obama Administration ...

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Not professional, but worse yet, she mislabeled the problem. Mommy is the loser here.

The nurse could have turned around your statement in a very subtly threatening way.

Ms White, you are such a winner! You will survive the infestation and viral spreads that are planned for 2020. Only those who are vaccinated will be unaffected by the viral attacks, and those who aren't vaccinated will die quickly so that the survivors do not have to waste resources on them. You're a smart planner!

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

... U.S. health experts agree. America’s last outbreak of polio was in 1979, and though risk of reintroduction of the disease is low, they say that growing pockets of unvaccinated children are raising concerns that people may have forgotten the panic over the disease that crippled Lillard — and how easily it could return. ...

“Syria is a good example,” he adds. “They didn’t have any cases. Then they stopped vaccinating for two or three or four years and what do you have?” ...

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

I hate these adults who are like "I know the dangers of vaccinations...so we only injected one kid"

I don't get it, do you hate the single kid? Do you secretly know they are safe but dislike the other two?

Or are you simply that ignorant and never read any information on vaccinations?

I have a friend who opted to not get HPV vaccinations, HEHEHEH...

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Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Rule 1: No pooftas. Rule 2: No maltreating the theists, IF, anyone is watching. Rule 3: No pooftas. Rule 4: I do not want to see anyone NOT drinking after light out. Rule 5: No pooftas. Rule 6: There is NO...rule 6.

Two of the three of my children got whooping cough even though they received the shot to protect them from it,66% not very good protection if you ask me.

Then again they don't have smallpox

I am old enough to remember childhood illnesses sweeping through our school and every kid getting everything--measles, chicken pox, mumps, whooping cough. We got it all, because there were no shots for those yet. It was common for kids to lose weeks of school every year in waves. My daughter and her friends have never had any of the things that we all got.

But not polio or smallpox! They already were vaccinating us for those. In the 60s and 70s it was unthinkable to not get your kids vaccinated-- they did it at school and everyone lined up and got them. I think there were one or two kids in the school who had letters from home saying they were not to get the shots. We did not know why, but it was probably religious. Certainly not due to any stupid movie star--with no science or medical background-- saying they were not sure the shots were safe.[1]

Vaccines are not 100% effective, if the disease is around. That would be like never being exposed to the disease at all. Clearly your kids were exposed to the disease. If they had not been vaccinated, and then were exposed, they all would have gotten sick, and probably much sicker than they were. (Depends on how bad the case was--I am assuming and hoping that they were okay.)

Vaccines are not only about individual protection, although they have to be marketed that way to make sure enough people get them.[2] Vaccines are about statistics and critical mass.

Some people who are exposed will get sick, not matter how many people get vaccinated. But they will be less sick, and far fewer people will get sick than if nobody was vaccinated. Eventually, so few people in the population are getting really sick that the disease germs don't reach a critical mass and die out due to lack of hosts to spread it around.

If enough people in a population are vaccinated, the disease dies out that much quicker. But some diseases, like the flu, change every season instead of completely dying out, so we have to keep on getting the shots.

I am old enough to remember childhood illnesses sweeping through our school and every kid getting everything--measles, chicken pox, mumps, whooping cough. We got it all, because there were no shots for those yet.

Chicken pox and mumps here! I think I had the MMR and got mumps about a month later. Eh, oh well.

These diseases would routinely go through just about every student in the school, especially chicken pox.

It was common for kids to lose weeks of school every year in waves. My daughter and her friends have never had any of the things that we all got.

I only recall one incident of chicken pox striking a child in my daughter's kindergarten class, and the child was immediately isolated. No spread. My daughter nor her friends have had any of these diseases.

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John 14:2 :: In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.