So one of my pals just got back from the Africa burn and posted this photo. This is from a NYC theme camp that also comes to the playa. I'm sorry but shit like this should get you banned from the playa all together. Sickening.

maladroit- Burning Man is like a second job, except you pay to work there.Burning Man is just the pre party for exodus! - fellow burner during exodus

well, i just checked it out, and im afraid our TattooGoddess may be shit stirring, without a paddle...

evidently the site was vacated saturday by the crew in question, on sunday the empty space filled up with crap (a very real phenomena) said camp then sent back people (and paid them) to take away other peoples garbage because it looked bad and people were bitching up a storm about a SO-CALLED moop disaster.

so everybody just calm the fuck down.

jesus, dont you have anything better to do than scan facebook for anything that even looks like it might be interesting to post on eplaya?

having given my first post some thought, I'd like to propose waiting for more info, or evidence, independant, before any lynching.photos can be taken randomly, and attributed wrongly. one random photo, does not a conviction make.Good on TTG for bringing it up, but, I'd hate to jump on some camp, without real, evidence and proof.

example: last year, the camp across from us (assholes, but for different reasons), pulled out, leaving a huge pile of 5 gallon water bottles, some full, and some misc. crap!! We were all dismayed! But, a day and a half later, a truck came and cleaned up nicely. so, just some logistical issue. would have been easy to accuse them, with photos, had we not been there late enough.

South Africa has been dubbed "the protest capital of the world"[1] and has one of the highest rates of public protest in the world.[2] The rate of protest has been escalating since 2004[2] and "rose dramatically in the first eight months of 2012".[3] Since 2008 more than 2 million people have taken to the streets in protest every year.[4]

and now they got 90 bags of trash created while celebrating some western hippie god of costco carports and white hats?!

My understanding from the folks behind playa restoration is that the idea of MOOP maps and LNT policies is to encourage people to do the right thing and use positive reinforcement, not to justify burnier-than-thou attacks, shaming, and bullying.

trilobyte wrote:My understanding from the folks behind playa restoration is that the idea of MOOP maps and LNT policies is to encourage people to do the right thing and use positive reinforcement, not to justify burnier-than-thou attacks, shaming, and bullying.

Hasn't stopped any one here

And fishy... I just woke up like 5 minutes before I wrote that. Not everyone is perfect and makes mistakes. Lighten up.

maladroit- Burning Man is like a second job, except you pay to work there.Burning Man is just the pre party for exodus! - fellow burner during exodus

yes... a sad thing but how many times has this happened on the Playa ??I've seen trash left there after every Burn too..there is a difference between knowingly leaving it and havingsomeone screw you over that didn't follow thru with their responsibilities ...but it appears the Burners there pitched in (as usual) and took care of it !!that makes it a happy ending afterall !!

trilobyte wrote:My understanding from the folks behind playa restoration is that the idea of MOOP maps and LNT policies is to encourage people to do the right thing and use positive reinforcement, not to justify burnier-than-thou attacks, shaming, and bullying.

Yeah Trilo I heard a really nice presentation of that during one of the 7:30 morning meetings last year. It just goes into the Accentuate the Positive, Pick up the Slack and be a Leader mentality that a lot of folks are moving to.

.......................................................................................Oh yeah, this year I was totally twerping out at the fence. ~Lonesombri

Relax fellas, they were just leaving it for the garbage scrap-scavengers to pick through! There might be valuable metals in those garbage bags! It's like bringing a land yacht MV and then leaving it at India Burn to get broken down by ship breakers. Just remember to tell them where you packed in the asbestos!

On a different more serious note, I not so sure about that whole discouraging public shaming and bullying thing. I think we need more of it in these cases. I also don't consider it "burnier than thou"; "burnier than thou" is more about people proclaiming how much more they do ("I live in a tent, not an RV!"), rather than pointing out people and groups who aren't doing the minimum. You use negative incentives to discourage bad practices, positive to encourage good ones. Less of a bad practice is still a bad practice. Praise the differential, but still slam the overall deficit -- even the playa restoration posts follow this.

"The essence of tyranny is not iron law. It is capricious law." -- Christopher Hitchens

Relax fellas, they were just leaving it for the garbage scrap-scavengers to pick through! There might be valuable metals in those garbage bags! It's like bringing a land yacht MV and then leaving it at India Burn to get broken down by ship breakers. Just remember to tell them where you packed in the asbestos!

On a different more serious note, I not so sure about that whole discouraging public shaming and bullying thing. I think we need more of it in these cases. I also don't consider it "burnier than thou"; "burnier than thou" is more about people proclaiming how much more they do ("I live in a tent, not an RV!"), rather than pointing out people and groups who aren't doing the minimum. You use negative incentives to discourage bad practices, positive to encourage good ones. Less of a bad practice is still a bad practice. Praise the differential, but still slam the overall deficit -- even the playa restoration posts follow this.

Whether the appropriate term is burnier than thou or not (I'll talk more about that in a bit), it doesn't change the fact that the organizers (and people responsible) for the event, and the teams that actually do the work to clean up the mess want to discourage public shaming and bullying. If anybody gets to say how they'd like to handle things, I think it would be the people responsible for doing the work.

As for the question of the use of burnier than thou, I think it's an appropriate term. I understand it (and use it) as an equivalent of the phrase 'holier than thou' which is used to describe someone who's no better than the rest of us coming in and telling people what to do. The habitual liar who goes on a tear over being lied to, the neighbor with junk (or major appliances) in their yard getting on your case for not cutting or watering your lawn, and so on.