My pooch, Bob, is sick, I'm just not sure how sick. Came in last night and noticed that he was very lethargic. When I gave him his dinner he wasn't eating it with his usual gusto. When I looked at his bowl I noticed that he was puking everything he ate (or so I thought). I took the food away from him and tried to give him small pieces of vegetables instead. Those seemed to have gone down well. He's drooling excessively all night.

He was definitely not doing great and I figured he just had a small cold so I'd let him sleep it off. This morning when I woke up I noticed his paws were wet from all the drool he had during the night. Also noticed that he's panting mildly, more like breathing through his mouth. Gave him his breakfast and again he couldn't swallow and regurgitated everything. I figured I would make him an omelet instead and even that he couldn't swallow. All he does his produce enormous amount of drool (foam) from his mouth instead. Even his drinking seems hard as he drools/foams back into the water bowl.

I'm a little worried, I have a 3 O'clock appointment at the vets but I'm going nuts waiting. Anybody have any clue what this could be? He's a healthy 2 year old golden and normally when he's ill it takes 1 maybe 2 days and he's back on his feet. He's never been like he is now though. Am I over reacting? Nobody told me when I got a dog that I would go nuts when they're sick!

Purpledomino

March 18th, 2008, 09:29 AM

Please take your dog the the emergency vet asap. This sounds like something that cannot wait until 3.00 and could be potentially life threatening for your dog.

I lost my chow to bloat, and he was was drooling excessively (foam) and panting. Hopefully that is not the case....but don't take the chance and wait.
Good luck to your boy and keep us posted! :pray:

bobsdad

March 18th, 2008, 09:57 AM

Please take your dog the the emergency vet asap. This sounds like something that cannot wait until 3.00 and could be potentially life threatening for your dog.

I lost my chow to bloat, and he was was drooling excessively (foam) and panting. Hopefully that is not the case....but don't take the chance and wait.
Good luck to your boy and keep us posted! :pray:

Ok I'm officially freaked out. I did just look up the symptoms of Bloat and he doesn't have any of the tell tale symptoms but I'm freaked out enough to take action. I will try and get out of work ASAP and take him to the vet...damn meetings.

Love4himies

March 18th, 2008, 10:56 AM

Could also be toxins that created a burns in his throat. Please let us know what the vet says.

danaekitty

March 18th, 2008, 10:59 AM

Good luck to Bob...good for you for not waiting it out any longer!

Purpledomino

March 18th, 2008, 11:13 AM

Ok I'm officially freaked out. I did just look up the symptoms of Bloat and he doesn't have any of the tell tale symptoms but I'm freaked out enough to take action. I will try and get out of work ASAP and take him to the vet...damn meetings.

Could be a number of things.....many of which could be serious, but hopefully not. I am glad you are taking him in sooner. :fingerscr

hazelrunpack

March 18th, 2008, 12:58 PM

Any luck getting an earlier vet appt, bobsdad? :fingerscr

Please remember to keep us posted on what you find out! :goodvibes: for Bob!

rainbow

March 18th, 2008, 01:42 PM

Sending lots of good wishes for Bob. I hope you are able to get to the vet asap and that it is nothing too serious. :fingerscr :goodvibes:

bobsdad

March 18th, 2008, 01:48 PM

Ok got back from the vet about an hour ago, sorry for the delay in posting back. Vet has no idea but is suspecting allergies. My dog is a vegetarian because he's allergic to meat. Eats meat and gets mega diarrhea. Due to this I monitor very carefully what he eats and I haven't fed him anything new lately. He might have snuck a treat at the dog park on Sunday but for it to take over 36 hours to manifest is unlikely. You give him meat and pretty much 3 hours later your knee deep in doggy doodoo.

She gave him a shot of cortisone and benedrile. He took a nap and now for the last 20 minutes has been trying to drink. I fill up the bowl and he just sits there licking away but no water is ingested. I have to refresh the water every few minutes because he's drooling profusely into the bowl. The vet did say that the drool is weird in itself because it's foamy and not clear. So he can't eat and can't drink and it's been over 2 hours since he got his allergy shot. I'm guessing we can rule out allergies. Not sure what else is left but I hope it's not bad and will go away quickly.

We have another visit with the vet at 3PM to verify how everything is going. I'm more panicked now then I was before. His mouth is alway open as if the inside is puffy or he simply can't breath from the nose. I'm just not used to him being sick, he's always healthy. Vet said if he's still drooling a lot she can give him a shot that will reduce the drool. I'm worried that will simply mask the problem.

Any advice?

Winston

March 18th, 2008, 02:25 PM

A couple things come to mind here..Could e have gotten into anything poisonois? or did the Vet look at his teeth? Did the vet also have a look into his mouth / throat area? If he is trying to drink water and is unable to maybe you could get a srynge fromthe vet so you can get some fluids into him? Pls let us know what happens!!

Hang in there! Its so tough when their sick!

Cindy

Love4himies

March 18th, 2008, 02:37 PM

Insist on bloodwork, and ask about poisons. Some can cause burning in the throat, affect the liver and kidney function. Puddles was poisoned with paint thinner and had the same symptoms as your dog.

Love4himies

March 18th, 2008, 02:39 PM

Am I over reacting? Nobody told me when I got a dog that I would go nuts when they're sick!
Nope you are just being a good doggie dad! You have recognized that your dog needs immediate vet attention.

rainbow

March 18th, 2008, 02:48 PM

Did you take your dog to your regular vet or the emergency vet? What vet are you seeing at 3pm? It sounds like Bob has ingested something poisonous and she be staying at the vet until he is well enough to come home.

bobsdad

March 18th, 2008, 05:16 PM

Still no clue what it is. They don't think it's anything poisonous. The current theory is that something is stopping his tongue from touching the roof of his mouth thus blocking the swallow effect. They've just referred me to a tongue specialist (I didn't even know you had vet specialization) which we will go see in 1 hour. (that will be the 3rd vet I see today).

I spent two hours with the vet trying to feed him and get him to drink. He's really hungry and thirsty so he tries. One bowl of water gets him a few drops down the throat so I'm constantly refreshing the bowl for him. He did get some food down (maybe 1/3 of a cup) so he should be able to last. The original vet told me I could either wait till tomorrow and see if he gets better or go to the tongue specialist who will charge me a few hundred dollars just to see me. Of course I chose the specialist.

This vet did give him and anti drool shot, some concoction that supposedly reduces the saliva they create. Did nothing for him. Might have reduced the foaming by 10% but really far from stopping it. I'm tired, I've been running around the city seeing vets and not one of them has given me a proper answer. I know it's difficult when your patient doesn't speak but I'm nervous and I need to know he'll be ok.

Shabby

March 18th, 2008, 05:28 PM

Oh dear...big :grouphug: for you bobsdad!!! Please let us know when you find out what's wrong.

Sending you :pray:

Purpledomino

March 18th, 2008, 05:43 PM

Wow...have you ever been through the grinder today. A tongue specialist? I must have been under a rock or something lately because I never would have thought.... Seriously though, this is a really unusual situation, and I hope you get some answers soon. Poor Bob.... I would worry about dehydration if he is having such a hard time getting water down. I'm sure the vets have considered that. Hopefully this won't last much longer.....sending :grouphug:

want4rain

March 18th, 2008, 06:38 PM

tongue specialist?? cool!! we just had a JRT pup with the roof of his mouth reconstructed. seems his was missing!! poor guy! its titanium now. :laughing:

hopefully this person can tell you something. how does he lick?? is he able to lick at all? can you see anything in there?? wow, thats just plain strange! a dog who has a licking problem. pardon me while i chuckle about that for a minute. :)

-ashley

edslinda

March 18th, 2008, 07:49 PM

:sorry: OMG Your poor doggie I have to say I would stop at nothing to get answers like you are doing now my prayers out to you and your dog. Wish I could help

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 07:50 AM

Sorry I didn't post last night, it's been a hard night. Seems like Bob has Dysphagia which is basically a paralysis of the jaw (drop jaw). There are 3 reasons why this would occur: 1. auto immune 2. Viral 3. Neurological. Vet is treating the auto immune one now, viral will go away by itself (unless it's a fatal bug). Neurological is not a good one. Next week Wednesday we have an appointment with a dog neurologist. Could only get the appointment next week because there is only 1 neurologist in the province of Quebec.

I've come up with a way to feed Bob but drinking is the hard one. I've tried crushed ice, snow, water bottle, hose but he's just having such a hard time. So far my best system is a rubber band on his schnout and holding up the water bowl for him. He gets about maybe two-three gulps per bowl.

He's such a good boy...he never does anything bad. He doesn't deserve this, he's a good soul. And I can't do anything to make his life better...I simply don't know what to do. He just looks at me with his mouth open and doesn't understand why he's been drinking for 20 minutes but is still so thirsty. And what do I do if it's neurological, he's been with me every day for 2 years now. He's my best friend, I'm not ready to say goodbye. It's not fair, he's such a good boy.

Love4himies

March 19th, 2008, 07:56 AM

I am glad you finally got an answer. Your poor dog, I hope he is going to be OK.

Did the vet suggest sub cutaneous fluids to keep your dog hydrated?

:grouphug:

MOOSEDRY

March 19th, 2008, 08:16 AM

hi bobsdad.

i've been reading your thread, but haven't responded until now. i'm so sorry to hear of your baby's troubles. please keep us updated as to how he is doing. it's so hard when they get sick. we'll keep you in our prayers, right gang?

tracy :candle:

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 08:16 AM

I am glad you finally got an answer. Your poor dog, I hope he is going to be OK.

Did the vet suggest sub cutaneous fluids to keep your dog hydrated?

:grouphug:

He said we should keep trying to get him to drink normally. Once we go down that path, the dogs life will become much less enjoyable

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 08:22 AM

hi bobsdad.

i've been reading your thread, but haven't responded until now. i'm so sorry to hear of your baby's troubles. please keep us updated as to how he is doing. it's so hard when they get sick. we'll keep you in our prayers, right gang?

tracy :candle:

Thank you, thank you all for the prayers. I'm at the office and I just can't stop crying. I know men are not supposed to cry but this is my best friend and he's not well and there is nothing I can do for him. He just looks at me with those big eyes asking why he's so thirsty. I can't do anything to make him better. What if this is neurological, he's only 2 years old. He's just a baby. It's just not fair, he wouldn't harm a fly. He's such a good boy, his best trick is KISSES. If I tell him to do kisses on anybody then he just jumps on the person and kisses away. Anytime anybody is unhappy I just tell him to do Kisses and they end up smiling. I can't do that for him now, I just have to sit there and watch him. It's so unfair, he's such a good soul.

MOOSEDRY

March 19th, 2008, 08:38 AM

hi bobsdad.

what do you mean, men aren't supposed to cry? you go ahead and cry as much as you want to, do you hear me? like you said, this is your best friend, and you feel helpless because there is nothing you can do. you have every right to be emotional right now. in my opinion, a man who isn't afraid to cry shows tremendous strength. you have been through a terrible ordeal. the worry of a sick pet is enough to make us physically ill.

but now listen, honey, because you need to hear this: THANK GOD YOUR LITTLE DOG HAS YOU. the reality is, your dear little angel was going to go through this whether you had him or not. thankfully, he landed in your hands. other, cruel people out there who don't understand what it is to love a pet would simply have abandoned him because he may cost them some money. you are doing everything you possibly can for him right now. he was obviously placed in your care for a reason.

i will pray very hard that this turns out to be something that can be fixed. please please please let us know what is going on. there are a lot of caring people on this board. they have helped me through lots of things!

blessings,
tracy :pray:

Shabby

March 19th, 2008, 09:09 AM

I'm so, so very sorry you're hurting so much right now. You go right ahead and cry!!! Who says men shouldn't cry? You have feelings and emotions just like women and I, along with others, firmly believe that a man who allows himself to cry in the face of sadness and adversity displays confidence, strength and courage!!

Your pup is so very lucky to have you as his 'Dad'. I wish we were all there to :grouphug: you, and help you through this terrible time.

I have a suggestion for you, being a nurse. We encounter patients all the time with dysphagia and this prevents them from having the ability to swallow liquids. For 'humans', we use "thickened fluids" and you can purchase. Here is a link you can read:

http://www.dysphagia-diet.com/t&e_thickener.htm

Call your vet and ASK FIRST if this would be appropriate to try on your baby!

Good luck and I'm praying for you.

Sincerely,
Shabby :dog:

Shabby

March 19th, 2008, 09:16 AM

Hi Bobsdad:

I just wanted to give you another link to look at. Reading this will help you understand what exactly dysphagia is.

Please check out this site I found from the Golden Retreiver Club of America. Apparantly Goldens can have a swallowing disorder that is hereditary, I would definately check this out. It also says that vets can be unaware of this, so the more information you have the better.

I truly hope that things work out for you and your boy...you are right, he doesn't deserve this, and neither do you. You are in a good place with supportive people who have gone through stuff like this. Keep us posted.

http://www.grca.org/health/swallowing.html

Love4himies

March 19th, 2008, 09:50 AM

You go ahead and cry, shows you are a caring human!!

I hope you can do something for you poor dog.

I am surprised your vet isn't keeping your dog hydrated with sub q's. Maybe dogs are different than cats :shrug:. It is a normal procedure to do with sick cats that are not eating/drinking and for cats who are in renal failure.

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 10:01 AM

Please check out this site I found from the Golden Retreiver Club of America. Apparantly Goldens can have a swallowing disorder that is hereditary, I would definately check this out. It also says that vets can be unaware of this, so the more information you have the better.

I truly hope that things work out for you and your boy...you are right, he doesn't deserve this, and neither do you. You are in a good place with supportive people who have gone through stuff like this. Keep us posted.

http://www.grca.org/health/swallowing.html

I'll mention it to the vet but it doesn't seem like this is what Bob has. His jaw actually hangs down now. He can't even close his mouth because of this. Bob is vaccinated against Rabies but the more I read about Rabies the more the problems fit. I called the vet and she's telling me it's not likely to be Rabies. There is a stray cat that roams the neighborhood and enjoys tormenting bob, maybe she scratched him. There are two types of rabies, dumb and wild rabies. Of course if Bob gets rabies it would be dumb rabies. He's completely lethargic an just seems like he has no energy. Hoping it's not and there is no way to test for rabies while the dog is alive. I'm sure he doesn't have rabies but if he does then I'm even more scared for my wife. She's 3 months pregnant and I have no clue what the rabies treatment would do to a pregnant lady.

So now I've gone from being mortified for my dogs health to mortified for my dog and wife. Vet is assuring me it's not rabies but I just can't help thinking that cat might be a carrier. Bob was last vaccinated on April 2007. So if I want peace of mind on rabies I have to catch the stray cat and get my vet to euthanize it and check for rabies. I just can't do that on a far fetch theory. I can't just kill the cat to ease my worries. I'll ask the specialist as soon as I can what he thinks.

rainbow

March 19th, 2008, 12:20 PM

*cough* .....my what an interesting story. :clown: :loser:

rainbow

March 19th, 2008, 02:20 PM

Okay, bobsdad, you keep coming back to check the thread. Do you not have any updates? :rolleyes:

aslan

March 19th, 2008, 02:33 PM

*cough* .....my what an interesting story. :clown: :loser:

hmmm did i miss something?

luckypenny

March 19th, 2008, 02:35 PM

I keep coming back to this thread and reading it over and over again. Doesn't it sound similar to Lukka'sma's Lukka's condition? It's being treated with Prednisone?

Bobsdad, honestly, after all these vet visits, you're thinking rabies :confused: ? Seriously, the vet would be able to tell I'm sure. What you need to do is stop trying to diagnose your dog as it seems you're running around in circles. He hasn't been diagnosed yet and you're already thinking about saying goodbye :confused: ? C'mon, get real!

You mention it may be Dysphagia yet when Purpledomino gives you a link for info you then say it doesn't sound like it??

Have you actually gone to a vet yet?

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 02:36 PM

Okay, bobsdad, you keep coming back to check the thread. Do you not have any updates? :rolleyes:

Wish I did...I just got back from 3 drugstores and couldn't find the thickner. I've read all the links and more 10 times already. I keep checking to see if anybody found another link for me to read that I haven't already found. Can't seem to concentrate on work today :sad:

Not sure if I should order the thickner online, it will take at least a week to get here and if it's autoimmune or curable viral then he'll be cured by then and if it's worse then he'll be in a better place by then. And there go the water works....sorry and thank you all for the support.

I think I'll head home and spend the rest of the day with bob

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 02:48 PM

I keep coming back to this thread and reading it over and over again. Doesn't it sound similar to Lukka'sma's Lukka's condition? It's being treated with Prednisone?

Bobsdad, honestly, after all these vet visits, you're thinking rabies :confused: ? Seriously, the vet would be able to tell I'm sure. What you need to do is stop trying to diagnose your dog as it seems you're running around in circles. He hasn't been diagnosed yet and you're already thinking about saying goodbye :confused: ? C'mon, get real!

You mention it may be Dysphagia yet when Purpledomino gives you a link for info you then say it doesn't sound like it??

Have you actually gone to a vet yet?

Been to the vet 4 times and have scheduled neurologist visit next week plus another checkup by the internal specialist Tomorrow. I already know it's Dysphagia, that is what the vet said. Problem is that there are a few things that give dogs Dysphagia and only 2 of them are treatable. I'm treating Bob for one of them in hopes it will get better but even my vet was skeptical about the treatment due to the speed the illness progressed.

For the link you mention, if you would have read it you would realize it mentions a breed problem of an enlarged esophagus that causes swallowing problems. Bob doesn't have swallowing problems, he has a paralyzed jaw which makes swallowing impossible. Also Rabies can't be tested for since it sits on the brain stem. Only way to test for rabies is to do an autopsy. I will admit rabies is far fetched but all the symptoms fit and I know I'm not a vet and I shouldn't try to diagnose the problem but the symptoms fit and the vet refuses to say 100% that it can't be rabies. I'm still hoping it's autoimmune which would be the best case scenario.

No hard feelings but if you're going to call me out for being a bad dad the least you can do is read the thread and see what has been tried. Nothing more I would like then somebody to call me out and show me what I neglected to do so I could do it immediately. I rather look foolish then be right.

I sound negative because my heart is breaking in thousands of little pieces and I simply can't keep it together. I wouldn't wish this on anybody, he's my best friend and I love him like a child. It feels like somebody is just ripping my insides to shred and all I could do is sit there and watch. He was healthy as an ox less then 48 hours ago and now he's doing real bad. Sorry if I can't be more cheerful!

luckypenny

March 19th, 2008, 03:12 PM

I never said you were a "bad dad." Sorry but you went from allergies to dysphagia to rabies, and now back to dysphagia again all within almost 24 hours and talking about saying "good-bye' already :shrug: without a definate diagnosis. A little difficult for me to comprehend.

If your dog has indeed only starting showing symptoms within the past 48 hours, you're catching this right at the beginning. Hopefully your vet has started treatment with meds such as Prednisone and you'll see improvement soon.

MOOSEDRY

March 19th, 2008, 03:35 PM

what's up with people being harsh towards bobsdad in this thread? he's coming here looking for support and comfort, and instead is being shown attitude and skepticism. he's not claiming to know what's wrong with his dog, he's grasping at straws as to what could have caused this. what's wrong with that?

bobsdad, please know that not everyone on this board is unfeeling. i'm still crossing my fingers hard for your little guy. all you were doing was voicing your thoughts and uncertainties. no one should be crucified for that.

again, please keep us updated as to how your dog is doing. it all sounds like a nightmare!

tracy :sad:

danaekitty

March 19th, 2008, 03:42 PM

I second that.

aslan

March 19th, 2008, 03:50 PM

I'm more intrigued with why, Rainbow and Lp are usually the most helpful people i've ever met. Somethings up.

bobsdad

March 19th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Have an 8 AM appointment with an internal organ specialist tomorrow. Hopefully he will be able to shed some light. I'm also scheduled to see a neurologist next Wednesday.

I think bobs paralysis is progressing downwards. It was harder feeding him this evening compared to this morning. It seems like he was able to swallow less today, could be my imagination but it seems like it. His jaw definitely dropped some more and his breathing is getting louder.

Drinking is the real problem right now. Only method I found that works is crushed ice. I put a few cubes in the blender and then hand feed him the ice cubes. Nothing else seems effective. Tried even putting a rubber band to hold up his jaw but I don't know why that didn't work. He was able to lap with his tongue but nothing went down. For now ice cubes it is.

I'll post again after tomorrows vet appointment.

Mud's Mom

March 19th, 2008, 08:15 PM

I hope everything takes a turn for the better soon but in the mean time here are a few ideas for supportive care

Our golden had a tumor along the lower jaw that caused him simmilar issues. The tumor was removed and he had some good months but the cancer had spred to his sinus cavity so he had trouble drinking. We fed him lots of watermellon, jello and we used sub Q fluids. I am not suggesting that your dog has cancer, your vet must have eliminated that as a cause by now. It's just a similar symptom and our golden was 15 y/o. My vet has also had me do sub Q fluids for a cat and 2 other dogs for a variety of issues. Dehydration can prevent the body from being able to heal. It affects many of the internal system that your dog depends on. As far as it affecting quality of life - some don't mind it much and some hate it but it only lasts a few minutes and if he is so weak and lethargic already it would seem worth a try.

As for being emotional about this - welcome to the club. You know from the moment you get a dog that someday they will break your heart. But they are so worth it and every time your heart breaks it makes room for the next one. I hope it doesn't come to that for you this time. We went 12 years without a loss and have lost 5 dogs and a cat in the last 3 years.

Best of luck keep us informed

rainbow

March 19th, 2008, 08:33 PM

I keep coming back to this thread and reading it over and over again. Doesn't it sound similar to Lukka'sma's Lukka's condition? It's being treated with Prednisone?

Bobsdad, honestly, after all these vet visits, you're thinking rabies :confused: ? Seriously, the vet would be able to tell I'm sure. What you need to do is stop trying to diagnose your dog as it seems you're running around in circles. He hasn't been diagnosed yet and you're already thinking about saying goodbye :confused: ? C'mon, get real!

You mention it may be Dysphagia yet when Purpledomino gives you a link for info you then say it doesn't sound like it??

Have you actually gone to a vet yet?

I'm more intrigued with why, Rainbow and Lp are usually the most helpful people i've ever met. Somethings up.

I would like to apologize for what I said. I've been under alot of stress lately and shouldn't post in emotional threads. So I thought because it's spring break right now and the OP's posts were jumping all over different things that he was just one of those people that flood the forum at this time of year. Again, my apologies. :o

I agree with luckypenny,...... it does sound like the condition Lukka had. It was called masicatory myositis.....here are the relevent posts....

Thank you for the info. If I got it correctly Masticatory Myositis locks the jaw due to muscle inflammation. The inflammation occurs because the dogs immune system attacks the nerve ending. Seems similar to what Bob has except he's got drop jaw. Although in the links provided for Masticatory Myositis they speak about the trigeminal nerve. It seems a lot more like Bobs problem fits with a trigeminal nerve disease. All this is good because I can ask my vet some pointed questions in 1 hour.

Trying to find more docs on trigeminal nerve diseases for dogs. Also it seems like my vet is treating him for Masticator Myositis, he put him on Prednisone.

For the first time in 3 days I feel a bit better. I'm no longer thinking it's rabies and I finally found some documentation that could explain what's going on. Dogs with these types of problems can live long happy lives while being on Prednisone for ever :) I can live with that and so can Bob. Let's pray this is what he has and that it's not something worse like the big C.

I'll let you guys know what the vet says after the appointment. If he still thinks it's neurological then I'm not going to be a happy camper. Lets hope he thinks it's an autoimmune problem :fingerscr

MOOSEDRY

March 20th, 2008, 07:24 AM

hey there bobsdad.

so happy to hear you sounding a bit positive this morning. i know that if bob's condition is treatable that you are the kind of dad that will move heaven and earth to make it happen. i can just tell how much you love your little buddy. i'm going to cross everything i own that you get to the bottom of this and find a way to help bob. he's one lucky little guy to have you. let us know what's going on asap!

tracy :fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr :fingerscr

Shabby

March 20th, 2008, 07:43 AM

Good luck bobsdad, I too will be waiting to hear!! :fingerscr:pray:

Winston

March 20th, 2008, 08:10 AM

Good Luck Bobsdad! Hoping to hear some good news!!!

Cindy

chico2

March 20th, 2008, 08:44 AM

Bobs Dad,when I read your post,the first thing that came to my mind was Lukka,I am hoping this is what your pup has,since Lukka is now doing great:pray:
:fingerscr:goodvibes:for good results today:fingerscr

bobsdad

March 20th, 2008, 10:14 AM

First off thank you all for the positive energy. Today was a good day at the vet. The expert is pretty certain that what bob has is a Trigeminal Nerve autoimmune disease. It's basically a neurological problem in which the body attacks the trigeminal nerve. The autoimmune drugs (same as Lukka, Prednisone) are used to suppress the bodies immune system and stopping its attack on the nerve. Good chance he will have to be on this drug for a very long time but the vet is hopeful that he will not have to be on it forever. The vet also worried that Bob might get pneumonia. We took some x-rays to make sure he didn't have it, which he didn't, and then gave him a big dose of antibiotics as a preventative.

We're still scheduled for a neurological consult on Wednesday but he hopes by then we'll see improvements. If we don't have any improvements by Tuesday we're going to have to do blood works since the neurologist will want those tests. He ruled out Rabies and Masticatory Myositis which made me happy. He's fairly certain it's Trigeminal nerve autoimmune disease.

He also said this is a very rare disease and in his 37 years of being a vet he's only seen 1 other case. In that case the dog made a full recovery. I almost cried when he said that, pure joy and release overwhelmed me. I know it's not over yet and we're still not 100% this is what Bob has but it's better then not knowing and dreading the worst.

Keep your fingers crossed :fingerscr

bobsdad

March 20th, 2008, 10:16 AM

hey there bobsdad.

so happy to hear you sounding a bit positive this morning. i know that if bob's condition is treatable that you are the kind of dad that will move heaven and earth to make it happen. i can just tell how much you love your little buddy. i'm going to cross everything i own that you get to the bottom of this and find a way to help bob. he's one lucky little guy to have you. let us know what's going on asap!

tracy :fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr:fingerscr :fingerscr

Thank you and if I could take his place and have this problem for him I would with out hesitation. He's family and you do whatever you can for family.

badger

March 20th, 2008, 11:19 AM

I hope you see improvement quickly. Take deep breaths, dad, you can do this.
He also said this is a very rare disease and in his 37 years of being a vet he's only seen 1 other case.
Good, he will be that much more invested in maintaining his record :)
We're all pulling for you, bobsdad.

Shabby

March 20th, 2008, 11:52 AM

So glad to hear the news bobsdad. You're an angel to your pup, and I sincerely hope you see improvement quickly!

We're all rooting for you!!:thumbs up

Love4himies

March 20th, 2008, 12:00 PM

Glad you got a diagnosis and that it is treatable.:clap:

rainbow

March 20th, 2008, 12:51 PM

Glad to hear the news. :thumbs up I think we would all like to see a pic of Bob now. :D

bobsdad

March 20th, 2008, 01:16 PM

Glad to hear the news. :thumbs up I think we would all like to see a pic of Bob now. :D

He's my screen saver at home and the wallpaper on my cell phone but for some reason I can't find any of his pics on my office PC. I'll make sure and post some as soon as I can.

Hopefully I can get some with his patented "I'm a cheap hooker" pose. Imagine an 80 pound dog on his back spread eagle with his upper gums in the air so he looks like he's smiling. So cute :)

rainbow

March 20th, 2008, 01:20 PM

Hee hee......looking forward to the pics. :D

MOOSEDRY

March 20th, 2008, 01:36 PM

hi bobsdad.

sooooooo happy to hear some hopeful news. i thought about poor bob (and you) all morning at work. i was anxious to get home to see if you had posted an update. won't it be great if bob is on the road to recovery!!!!

i agree with the others. can't wait to see a pic of the little cutie.

again, please keep us updated as to how his condition is coming along.

take care.
tracy :thumbs up

Purpledomino

March 20th, 2008, 01:43 PM

So happy that you got some good news. I'm with everyone else in wanting to see a pic of those big brown eyes! :D

loopoo

March 20th, 2008, 03:13 PM

so glad you got some good news.. been following this thread.. please continue to update us.. and send some pics over of your handsome guy :):goodvibes:

chico2

March 20th, 2008, 04:33 PM

Bob,that's great news,I know he still has a problem,but at least it's not deadly and can be cured,just like Lukka.:thumbs up
Yes please try to get a pic on here for us:dog:

bobsdad

March 21st, 2008, 01:10 PM

Ok so here are some pictures

Baby Bob vs Toy Bone

http://img356.imageshack.us/img356/3540/picture022ig7.jpg

Adolescent Bob introduces us to "Cheap whore pose"

http://img148.imageshack.us/img148/6630/picture046pt3.jpg

Adolescent Bob Hugs Dad

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/5995/picture052cd9.jpg

I Didn't do it

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1299/picture066po2.jpg

bobsdad

March 21st, 2008, 01:23 PM

I'll post some more pictures later on. My wife is convinced Bobs jaw is moving more then yesterday but it seems the same to me. He's definitely in better spirits. Also my hands seem to be getting used to the cold of the ice chips every 2 hours. Still not getting used to the drool though...I swear he's loving this. I have to feed him by hand and move his jaw up and down and all sir lazy has to do is swallow. Bob has always been lazy but he's taking it to knew heights :)

I'm convinced that even if he's getting better he'll fake it for a while to milk the situation. Little rascal

loopoo

March 21st, 2008, 01:26 PM

those pictures are absolutely adorable:lovestruck: what a beautiful guy cant wait to see more pics :)

bobsdad

March 21st, 2008, 01:39 PM

Don't you love the I didn't do it picture...it's like he's saying "I didn't do it I promise...maybe mommy ate your shoes...she's a weirdo you know"

He's too cute and soooo lazy :)

chico2

March 21st, 2008, 04:40 PM

Aww Bob.he was a sweetheart as a baby and I am sure he still is:lovestruck:
I believe him,I think your wife chewed the shoes:laughing:

rainbow

March 21st, 2008, 04:49 PM

Awwwww..... Bob is one handsome little guy. :lovestruck:

I love the "I didn't do it" pic. :D I've seen that look many times before. :laughing: And, the "Bob hugs Dad" pic is too cute. :cloud9:

Hope to see lots more pics of Bob in the Photo Forum here. :thumbs up

Glad Bob seems in better spirits :goodvibes: and good luck with the neurologist on Wednesday. :fingerscr

MOOSEDRY

March 21st, 2008, 07:10 PM

that bob sure is a cutie pa-tootie!!!

here's hoping he's on the road to recovery. his spirits improving sounds like a good sign to me.

take care, and keep us informed. all the best!

tracy :lovestruck:

Winston

March 21st, 2008, 07:35 PM

Bobdad! OMG what a sweet heart!! Just wanted to send you and your family some good vibes! Hoping your next appointment shows some improvement....So heartbreaking when they are sick!

Cindy

Shabby

March 21st, 2008, 11:31 PM

Awwww, he truly is sooooo cute! Sorry Dad, I meant Bob!!! :laughing:

Seriously though, what a beauty is he and I so hope that he will soon be on the road to a completely recovery.

Thanks for sharing the photos!!

Shabby:dog:

Purpledomino

March 22nd, 2008, 12:01 AM

AWWWW.........cute! No wonder you are in love with this guy, he is adorable! I also think your wife chewed the shoes.... there is no way this little sweetie could have done something like that!

Thanks for posting those. :thankyou:

hazelrunpack

March 22nd, 2008, 05:00 PM

He sure was a cute little pup! :lovestruck: Look at those innocent eyes! :dog:

Glad to hear he's maybe showing improvement! I hope the meds work for him quickly! :goodvibes:

Can't wait to see more Bob pictures. :D

Love4himies

March 23rd, 2008, 08:24 AM

He is such a sweetie, and of course he didn't chew the shoe:rolleyes:, with those eyes, I'd believe anything :cloud9:

MOOSEDRY

March 23rd, 2008, 09:23 AM

hi bobsdad.

just wondering how bob is feeling these past few days. any news for us? any improvement with his jaw?

tracy :fingerscr

Lukka'sma

March 23rd, 2008, 07:46 PM

Just seeing this thread for the first time.
Ever since Lukka came down with Masticatory Myositis the first thing I think of when I hear excessive drooling is an auto immune disease. Makes me very nervous to read about dogs and drool:eek: Lukka is now in remission and I hope your dog will have the same speedy results that Lukka had with the Pred therapy:thumbs up It took about a week for her mouth to open properly and another few days after that before she could give me a full open mouth yawn.
Hope all goes well for you bobsdad

bobsdad

March 23rd, 2008, 09:08 PM

Well I wish I had good news of a speedy recovery but it's not the case. His paralysis is progressing. What he has is called Myasthenia Gravis (http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_myasthenia_gravis.html) and it's officially progressed to his left eye muscle. It's sad to see but half his face is drooping now. We can still feed him by hand and we still hydrate him with crushed ice.

There is a lot more documentation on the disease for humans and they say 75% of the cases have abnormality of thymus and 25% have a tumor of the thymus. I'm shocked to learn that there is a rather simple blood test that can check for antibodies against acetylcholine receptors which they haven't done yet. Also don't understand why they gave autoimmune pills before giving anticholinesterases pills. The good news is that 89% of the dogs affected by this went into remission an average of 6.4 months after diagnosis. Bad news is all those that didn't go into remission got cancer within 3 years.

I'm basically researching the disease now and getting a list of questions to ask the neurologist on Wednesday. All in all I can't say I'm feeling all that positive today :cry:

Lukka'sma

March 23rd, 2008, 09:19 PM

I'm so sorry to hear this diagnosis.
My heart goes out to you, your family and your wonderful pooch. I will be keeping my fingers crossed for bob. Lukka and I are sending the most positive vibes we can manage for bob to get through this

Love4himies

March 24th, 2008, 02:38 AM

Oh no, bobsdad, I was hoping with the autoimmune pills he would be getting better, not worse. Hopefully, the neurologist will be able to give you better news and some meds to help him fight this disease.

Shabby

March 24th, 2008, 07:24 AM

Awww, I'm so sorry to hear this news. Just remember that YOU are a GOOD DAD and with you, Bob has the BEST chance of recovering.

My thoughts are with you.

MOOSEDRY

March 24th, 2008, 07:48 AM

hi bobsdad.

soooooooo sorry to hear of this diagnosis. i know it's hard, but you have to try to stay strong for bob. it's not all bad news, though, right? there is hope that bob can return to normal, as i understand it. let's all just pray that bob is among those who go into remission. with someone like you by his side seeing he gets everything he needs, he has the best possible chance for beating this thing. hang in there, buddy. you have lots of friends pulling for you on this board :grouphug:. please keep us informed. let us know what the neurologist has to say, okay?

take care!!!
tracy :lovestruck:

bobsdad

March 25th, 2008, 09:28 PM

Just a quick update.

Went to the vet today to see if Bob needs a neurologist consult or not. He's got Honer's Syndrom (http://www.marvistavet.com/html/body_horner_s_syndrome.html) on the left eye. Pretty nasty since his eyeball is retracting inwards but not dangerous since it will heal by itself. Bobs jaw is definitely improving, enough so that the vet feels confident that he doesn't need a neurologist. Since we brought him to the animal hospital with different specialists we've had about 8 different vets consult on the case. They're all certain that they see no tumors and that this is indeed an autoimmune disease.

I'll keep you all posted on Bobs progress. The vet thinks he should be able to drink by himself in 10 days :fingerscr. For now we're glad to help him drink and eat, I mean I already pick up his crap! :eeew:

You know what makes me sad, thinking about all those other animals whose families could not allocate the funds we've allocated to take care of there pets. They don't love them any less, but if you have to chose between feeding your pet or your child then it's an easy choice. Other then the SPCA what is a family in that situation supposed to do? We've already spent $1500 in 2 weeks but our financial situation permits us too, what do you do if you can't? I'm tormented by that thought constantly, what about all those other Bobs out there?

Ok Bob wants to go to sleep now...so grouchy if he doesn't get his 20 hours of sleep :shrug:

badger

March 26th, 2008, 12:41 AM

You know what makes me sad, thinking about all those other animals whose families could not allocate the funds we've allocated to take care of there pets.

You have a good heart Bobsdad. I think about this all the time.
Then there is a whole other group who, even if the money was burning a hole in their pocket, wouldn't spend it.

I'm so glad Bob is better and things are looking up. Thank dog for expert advice when we need it.

MOOSEDRY

March 26th, 2008, 07:30 AM

hi bobsdad.

i've been checking frequently to see if there was an update on bob, and lo and behold - there it was!

i'm very happy for you and your little buddy. it's always nice to hear something positive. poor little bob has been thru the wringer, eh?

i know what you mean about finances. my hubby and i also are in a position to take care of our animals' needs (we have three cats), but there are plenty of people out there who just don't have the money. some people like to criticize them and say they shouldn't have pets then, but at least they are able to give the animals food, shelter and lots of love. there are plenty of animals out there that don't even have that. if only people who can truly afford vet care are allowed to own pets, the world would be overrun by wild cats and dogs, trust me, as vet fees these days are steeeeeep. (speaking of criticizing those who can't afford it, in one post i read, the person claimed her animals get vet care before she eats, responding to a poster who stated she couldn't afford suggested treatment for her pet - that's a bit extreme, isn't it? where will her animals be if she starves to death? :shrug: people shouldn't be so quick to judge other peoples' situations).

anyway, take care of you and bob and drop by now and then to let us know how he is doing. here's hoping he's on the speedy road to recovery!

tracy :thumbs up

danaekitty

March 26th, 2008, 08:50 AM

I know what you mean about finances. I am unfortunately one of those people who would not be able to afford a 1500$ vet bill in a week, although I would do my damnedest to try. I don't think I would go without food, but my bills would definitely get bumped back a month.
Both my cats were rescued as kittens from irresponsible owners, and I wouldn't hesitate to rescue a third, or even a dog, in the same situation. I care for my animals very deeply, and even though I don't have a lot of money, I'm still able to provide their basic needs, including S/N.
Bobsdad, he's very lucky to have you.

Shabby

March 26th, 2008, 10:07 AM

Hey bobsdad: thanks for the update. I'm so glad to hear this news. My heart goes out to you, bob and your family for all you've been through these past couple of weeks.

I too think of bob constantly and even my own husband asks me every night when he arrives home from work: "Any news on bob?"

Bob is very fortunate to have YOU as his family!!! :angel2:

bobsdad

March 26th, 2008, 01:08 PM

I know what you mean about finances. I am unfortunately one of those people who would not be able to afford a 1500$ vet bill in a week, although I would do my damnedest to try. I don't think I would go without food, but my bills would definitely get bumped back a month.
Both my cats were rescued as kittens from irresponsible owners, and I wouldn't hesitate to rescue a third, or even a dog, in the same situation. I care for my animals very deeply, and even though I don't have a lot of money, I'm still able to provide their basic needs, including S/N.
Bobsdad, he's very lucky to have you.

God bless you and if everybody was more like you the world would be a better place. 'Tis better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all. Your pets are lucky to have an owner who cares that much about them.

MOOSEDRY

March 26th, 2008, 07:05 PM

i second that, bobsdad. bless you, danaekitty, for rescuing those babies. love is worth so much more than money, believe me! and like badger said, some people who have tons of money wouldn't spend a cent on their pets. so, who is the better caregiver? you tell me!

blessings to all those who love their pets! :angel:
tracy

Love4himies

March 27th, 2008, 07:16 AM

hi bobsdad.

some people like to criticize them and say they shouldn't have pets then, but at least they are able to give the animals food, shelter and lots of love. there are plenty of animals out there that don't even have that. if only people who can truly afford vet care are allowed to own pets, the world would be overrun by wild cats and dogs, trust me, as vet fees these days are steeeeeep. (speaking of criticizing those who can't afford it, in one post i read, the person claimed her animals get vet care before she eats, responding to a poster who stated she couldn't afford suggested treatment for her pet - that's a bit extreme, isn't it? where will her animals be if she starves to death? :shrug: people shouldn't be so quick to judge other peoples' situations).

I agree with what you are saying, if nobody adopted a pet for fear there may be vet bills, then there would be so many pets euthanised. I do believe that a person needs to be able to afford the basic vet care, spaying/checkups/minor illnesses.

Bobsdad, you are being a great dad, and your dog is so lucky to have you.

I hope he gets better soon.:grouphug:

MOOSEDRY

March 27th, 2008, 07:39 AM

I do believe that a person needs to be able to afford the basic vet care, spaying/checkups/minor illnesses.

absolutely, love4himies! the basics have to be there - especially spaying. i was referring more to serious illnesses where a person just might not have a choice because their resources are limited.

tracy :cat:

bobsdad

April 1st, 2008, 03:52 PM

Just wanted to give you guys an update on bobs status

First and foremost Bob is MUCH better. He has about 80% use of his jaw, he can open and close it but can't produce to much bite power. Makes eating crunchy treats hard but easily solved with equally yummy and much softer bananas. His honer syndrome has stopped progressing and might even be showing some remission. Although we still expect it to take about 2-3 months for the eyeball to come back in place.

The bad news, because this poor guy just keeps on getting more and more bad news, is that he has an infection in the right nostril. The infection occurred most likely because of regurgitated food that made it into his nostril and caused a nasty infection. He's on anti-biotic drops for that and should be able to kick it in 10 days.

We expect Bob to be back to HEALTHY status in about a month (:fingerscr). Till then we have weekly visits at the vet for status checks. I'll let you guys know when he's out of the woods or if something new develops.

So one of the things I learned about autoimmune diseases on dogs is that there are some tells to them. First and foremost is the eyes. Anything that attacks the sympathetic nervous system will somehow be visible in the eyes. Something that if I would have known at the beginning might have saved Bob 2-3 months of misery. Either the 3rd eyelid will start moving up or the skin around the eyes will droop or as in our case his eyeball will turn inwards. Either way there are some simple tests you could do to see. One of them is just tapping underneath the eye and seeing if he can close them. You can also look at the pupil and see if both sides are dilated the same. Shine light in his eye and see if the pupil dilates. Of course always take your dog to the vet, problem is that not all vets are pros in autoimmune diseases. My normal vet had never seen one in 30 years and my specialist has seen a few honers and other autoimmunes but only once before did he see what bob had.

Bob of course had a disease that attacked the sympathetic and also a specific protein that affected the trigeminal nerve. Good way to discover if your dog is mortally at risk is to stick your hand down his throat and see if he can swallow. Not being able to swallow is a big one and probably means an enlarged esophagus. They tend to rate these types of diseases on a scale of 4. Facial paralysis would be a 1, eyeballs would be 2, eyeballs and other muscles would be 3 and breathing/swallowing/blinking/walking would be a 4. Bob had a 3, thank GOD, because a 4 would be very bad.

We were lucky and fell on the perfect vet that new exactly what to do but before we fell on him we went through 3 vets that had no clue. I hope it never repeats but if it does I will definitely know what to look for. Don't use this as a guide but more as a learned experience by a fellow pet daddy.

Oh yes...and just because some of the symptoms fit Rabies, he most likely doesn't have Rabies ;)

MOOSEDRY

April 1st, 2008, 04:13 PM

hey there!

so glad to hear that bob is doing well. shame about the nostril infection, but at least it's something that will clear up relatively quickly and isn't life threatening. poor little guy - he's already been through so much! i'm sure you must feel like you've had the weight of the world lifted off your shoulders :cloud9:. thank god you finally found a vet who knew what to do! hang in there and let us know when bob is back to his old self.

so happy for you both!!!!

tracy :thumbs up

Love4himies

April 1st, 2008, 07:15 PM

So glad to hear things are looking up for Bob :thumbs up. Hope he keeps on progressing :fingerscr.

Shabby

April 2nd, 2008, 07:14 AM

Hi Bobsdad:

What an experience you and your family have been through, and poor Bob has suffered the most! I'm VERY happy to hear that you finally have the answers and treatments so that Bob can continue his life as a happy dog in an extremely loving and caring family.

Your sharing this horrible experience has been a blessing for those of us out here reading and learning with you through your journey, and will certainly make us more aware of some of the ''odder'' illnesses than can touch our beloved pets.

I applaud you bobsdad for your love, courage, strength and commitment to Bob. Every pet deserves a family like you!

Please continue to keep us updated.

Hugs to Bob and all of you! :grouphug:

Sincerely,
Shabby

Winston

April 10th, 2008, 07:50 AM

Hey Bobsdad! How is your boy doing?

Cindy

Shabby

April 10th, 2008, 10:22 PM

Hey Bobsdad:

I too would be interested in hearing how your baby is doing now? I think it was April 1st when we got the last update. :thumbs up

baberuth1ca

April 10th, 2008, 11:32 PM

I'm new to the site..so I'm just reading everything today and hope I'm not intruding.

I'm so glad to hear that Bob is doing better. As hard as it seems right now..with these rare diseases and so little info out there, it can seem like one thing just keeps leading to another. I honestly speak from experience with my little papillon on my avatar. My little Peanut is now waiting for me on the other side of the bridge..but against all odds, she made it to old age and with a robustness that was shocking, heartening and engaging.

I did the same as you...scoped the internet, stayed in constant contact with my vet...and learned to 'think outside the box'.

Have you discussed with your vet the possibility of acupuncture or physio? When things were bad and extra fluid and nutrition were needed, I have used Boost nutritional shakes and a bit of water....a turkey baster for the big girl and a syringe for the little ones. I also talked for [U]many[U] hours with my vet, the use of homeopathic remedies...vitamins, etc. You have to be careful..but the benefits of remedies over meds, are the body pees out what it doesn't need. I seriously have an awesome vet clinic...they are only interested in making the animals better and willing to do what it takes. I wish you so much luck and hope for the future.

I do have meat alternative recipes if you're interested..you can pm me.