medialoop wrote:For those of you who have already filled out the travel reimbursement form, did you just print it, fill it out, scan it, and e-mail it? The PDF wasn't letting me fill it out electronically so I'm assuming this is the best option. Or did you send it via snail mail? I'm just worried because the website says that you have to send it in at least 10 days before your visit, and that's coming up pretty soon so I don't want to screw it up...

Thanks! (And sorry if this info is somewhere on the website or form and I just couldn't find it.)

I sent it via snail mail. The first page of the form says: "Return the Travel Details Form to the J.D. Admissions Office. Mail the completed request forms to Harvard Law School, J.D. Admissions, 1563 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02138." Not sure if others have had success scanning and emailing instead.

medialoop wrote:For those of you who have already filled out the travel reimbursement form, did you just print it, fill it out, scan it, and e-mail it? The PDF wasn't letting me fill it out electronically so I'm assuming this is the best option. Or did you send it via snail mail? I'm just worried because the website says that you have to send it in at least 10 days before your visit, and that's coming up pretty soon so I don't want to screw it up...

Thanks! (And sorry if this info is somewhere on the website or form and I just couldn't find it.)

I sent it via snail mail. The first page of the form says: "Return the Travel Details Form to the J.D. Admissions Office. Mail the completed request forms to Harvard Law School, J.D. Admissions, 1563 Massachusetts Avenue, Cambridge, MA 02138." Not sure if others have had success scanning and emailing instead.

Did anyone else notice that, for class visit options, Zittrain's Cyberlaw used to be a choice but isn't anymore? I wonder if it just filled up, or if they decided not to have people visit it after all? Too bad, because it was definitely going to be my first choice. At any rate, I'm submitting my choices now, before more of them disappear...

sailboat wrote:Did anyone else notice that, for class visit options, Zittrain's Cyberlaw used to be a choice but isn't anymore? I wonder if it just filled up, or if they decided not to have people visit it after all? Too bad, because it was definitely going to be my first choice. At any rate, I'm submitting my choices now, before more of them disappear...

It filled up. I got an email that said my choices were full and I needed to select from the remaining available ones. Not my first choices, but still excited.

sailboat wrote:Did anyone else notice that, for class visit options, Zittrain's Cyberlaw used to be a choice but isn't anymore? I wonder if it just filled up, or if they decided not to have people visit it after all? Too bad, because it was definitely going to be my first choice. At any rate, I'm submitting my choices now, before more of them disappear...

It filled up. I got an email that said my choices were full and I needed to select from the remaining available ones. Not my first choices, but still excited.

Ah OK, good to know. Guess I should've realized earlier that that would happen!

kulshan wrote:I wonder when they'll tell us which class we got. I signed up pretty early, so fingers crossed for Lessig!

I think I read somewhere that it'll be in the packet we pick up at registration on the first day.

soj wrote:Found this old thread and got super excited about ASW again. Definitely a worthwhile read, even if some of the discussion is outdated.

So I actually had a dream about ASW the other night. There was free beer on tap in the lobby of the classroom building, and a hippie commune next door where white moms in dreads prayed over the organic pizza they were about to feed their toddlers.

soj wrote:Found this old thread and got super excited about ASW again. Definitely a worthwhile read, even if some of the discussion is outdated.

I just rea through the whole thing. I got the impression that the balance is not exactly favoring the positives. Hoping to get a better vibe at my own ASW, because I am fairly settled on Harvard.

Then again most of the detractors seem to be wringing their hands over the H vs. Y "champagne" problem. I didn't apply to YLS, and i know it's a big choice that should be taken seriously, but the sniping and elaborate responses do not make me excited to hear this tedious debate reinvigorated at ASW, on these boards or in law school.

soj wrote:Found this old thread and got super excited about ASW again. Definitely a worthwhile read, even if some of the discussion is outdated.

I just rea through the whole thing. I got the impression that the balance is not exactly favoring the positives. Hoping to get a better vibe at my own ASW, because I am fairly settled on Harvard.

Then again most of the detractors seem to be wringing their hands over the H vs. Y "champagne" problem. I didn't apply to YLS, and i know it's a big choice that should be taken seriously, but the sniping and elaborate responses do not make me excited to hear this tedious debate reinvigorated at ASW, on these boards or in law school.

I agree. I read through some of those pages and they seem far more negative than I was hoping for. I am going into the ASW with a different perspective - I want to be sold and I want to love the place because it's the best option for me so far based on where I've gotten into and my professional goals/interests. So I'm hoping my experience is a lot better...

Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

But you have to work for 10 years in public service to get that deal -- it's not clear to me from reading their LRAP site what happens if you take a non-qualifying job before 10 years. Do you have to repay the assistance you've got? Or do you just start paying off your loans that remain? http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/lrap/

The big plus for Harvard's LIPP for me is its flexibility. It allows ANY public/non-profit sector employment even if it doesn't require or prefer a JD. And it also includes private-sector jobs if your income is low enough to qualify. In my intended field this is great, since there really is no "biglaw" and the junior positions at even the best firms really don't pay enough to make the loans manageable.

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

But you have to work for 10 years in public service to get that deal -- it's not clear to me from reading their LRAP site what happens if you take a non-qualifying job before 10 years. Do you have to repay the assistance you've got? Or do you just start paying off your loans that remain? http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/lrap/

The big plus for Harvard's LIPP for me is its flexibility. It allows ANY public/non-profit sector employment even if it doesn't require or prefer a JD. And it also includes private-sector jobs if your income is low enough to qualify. In my intended field this is great, since there really is no "biglaw" and the junior positions at even the best firms really don't pay enough to make the loans manageable.

That's a good point. I didn't realize Georgetown's requires you to be in the program for 10 years.

And I agree, Harvard's LIPP still makes the most sense for me because of what you mentioned - the flexibility, and the option to work at ANY non-profit, government or academic job. This makes it by far my best option. I just wish it was slightly more generous in terms of the participant contribution.

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

The absolutely vital thing to realize about different LRAP/LIPP programs is that basically all of the T14 except YHS now require participation in the federal public service loan forgiveness program (http://studentaid.ed.gov/PORTALSWebApp/ ... sh/PSF.jsp). The key thing about the federal program is that you have to work for ten years for a government agency or a 501(c)(3) nonprofit to get any forgiveness at all - if you work in qualifying employment for only nine and a half years, you don't get any forgiveness from the government. (Though you could still be eligible for government forgiveness after 25 years if your income is low enough). On the plus side, if you reenter the nonprofit/government sector, you can reenter the program and pick up where you left off.

The way Georgetown and other law schools are able to have such a high salary threshold before you have to start to repay the loans is because they're building on the federal program - the federal program starts at around $40K, so Georgetown will pay your contribution if you're in a salary range between $40K and $75K. (I think that if you work in qualifying employment for less then ten years, then leave the program, you probably get to keep what the school gave you toward paying off the loans, but of course that'll depend on the school.) Each of the other non-YHS schools in the T14 (I didn't research others) seems to be offering a similar deal.

Depending on your circumstances, the federal program could be a great option. But it seems like Harvard's LIPP has the potential to provide a lot more flexibility in terms of employment that could be covered (private sector jobs that are "full-time and law related," like a small plaintiff-side firm, think tank, advocacy organization, etc, though of course I'm not sure how generous they are with accepting people with those types of jobs into the program - something I've been planning to investigate during ASW). And of course, with every year in the program, you're making significant progress toward paying off your loans.

(The other thing I wonder about in the back of my mind is whether the federal program is really a sure bet, given the state of education funding, and Congress/government in general, these days. It would be pretty abhorrent for them to repeal it and stick people with the responsibility to repay way more of their debt than they anticipated, but hey, it wouldn't be the first horrible thing that Congress has done. In that case, I'm sure that schools would step in to help, probably reinstating something close to their old programs, but of course then you're looking at a whole different repayment scheme.)

The federal program should be a great opportunity for a lot of law/graduate students, especially out of the T14, but I'm not convinced it's as generous as YHS, or even as a lot of the other top 6 or top 10 law schools' programs used to be (well, more generous in some ways, less in others). Most T14 schools seem to have changed their LRAP programs just in the last year or two to incorporate the federal program, so it's all very new. (Also, as a note, I asked, and Harvard has no intention to switch over to relying on the federal program, and they told me the reason for that is partly because they can afford to be more generous than that program.)

I think the key takeaway is (1) to thoroughly understand the federal program, and (2) to consider the factors that are going to be most important to you on an individual basis, because it'll be different for everyone. As you can probably tell, though, I personally have some reservations about relying on the federal program.

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

But you have to work for 10 years in public service to get that deal -- it's not clear to me from reading their LRAP site what happens if you take a non-qualifying job before 10 years. Do you have to repay the assistance you've got? Or do you just start paying off your loans that remain? http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/lrap/

The big plus for Harvard's LIPP for me is its flexibility. It allows ANY public/non-profit sector employment even if it doesn't require or prefer a JD. And it also includes private-sector jobs if your income is low enough to qualify. In my intended field this is great, since there really is no "biglaw" and the junior positions at even the best firms really don't pay enough to make the loans manageable.

Oh heh, splbagel covered it a lot more succinctly than me. Just to add to that, I don't think the federal program itself tells you you have to work in a job that requires a JD (from the page I linked to before: "The type or nature of employment with the organization does not matter for PSLF purposes. Additionally, the type of services that these public service organizations provide does not matter for PSLF purposes."), but of course the schools could put some sort of additional requirement on top of that.

And at any rate, I still think Harvard's LIPP is more flexible, especially as someone who might not want a 100% traditional law job.

sailboat wrote:(The other thing I wonder about in the back of my mind is whether the federal program is really a sure bet, given the state of education funding, and Congress/government in general, these days. It would be pretty abhorrent for them to repeal it and stick people with the responsibility to repay way more of their debt than they anticipated, but hey, it wouldn't be the first horrible thing that Congress has done. In that case, I'm sure that schools would step in to help, probably reinstating something close to their old programs, but of course then you're looking at a whole different repayment scheme.)

This. So much this. I really don't want to stake my financial future on anything that requires Congress to be halfway reasonable.

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

But you have to work for 10 years in public service to get that deal -- it's not clear to me from reading their LRAP site what happens if you take a non-qualifying job before 10 years. Do you have to repay the assistance you've got? Or do you just start paying off your loans that remain? http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/lrap/

The big plus for Harvard's LIPP for me is its flexibility. It allows ANY public/non-profit sector employment even if it doesn't require or prefer a JD. And it also includes private-sector jobs if your income is low enough to qualify. In my intended field this is great, since there really is no "biglaw" and the junior positions at even the best firms really don't pay enough to make the loans manageable.

I visited GULC earlier in the year and was floored by their LRAP program. Even more than that ridiculous $75,000 figure is that I believe you can make up to $140,000 and still get some payment made on your behalf (admittedly at that point it's completely miniscule)!

I started typing a list of LIPP gripes and concerns, but I think it would either derail this thread or get ignored. Would anyone be interested in a LIPP discussion? Maybe we could rope in some graduates or current students for insight.

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

But you have to work for 10 years in public service to get that deal -- it's not clear to me from reading their LRAP site what happens if you take a non-qualifying job before 10 years. Do you have to repay the assistance you've got? Or do you just start paying off your loans that remain? http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/lrap/

The big plus for Harvard's LIPP for me is its flexibility. It allows ANY public/non-profit sector employment even if it doesn't require or prefer a JD. And it also includes private-sector jobs if your income is low enough to qualify. In my intended field this is great, since there really is no "biglaw" and the junior positions at even the best firms really don't pay enough to make the loans manageable.

I visited GULC earlier in the year and was floored by their LRAP program. Even more than that ridiculous $75,000 figure is that I believe you can make up to $140,000 and still get some payment made on your behalf (admittedly at that point it's completely miniscule)!

I started typing a list of LIPP gripes and concerns, but I think it would either derail this thread or get ignored. Would anyone be interested in a LIPP discussion? Maybe we could rope in some graduates or current students for insight.

Let's have this discussion! Please list your gripes and concerns to make sure mine are similar!

freestallion wrote:Also, is anyone else slightly disappointed with the LIPP? I recently read that in Georgetown's LRAP, you don't have to pay ANY loans if your salary is below $75,000! This is amazing. At Harvard, you have to start paying loans once your salary hits $45,000 which is relatively low. This makes me sad.

But you have to work for 10 years in public service to get that deal -- it's not clear to me from reading their LRAP site what happens if you take a non-qualifying job before 10 years. Do you have to repay the assistance you've got? Or do you just start paying off your loans that remain? http://www.law.georgetown.edu/finaid/lrap/

The big plus for Harvard's LIPP for me is its flexibility. It allows ANY public/non-profit sector employment even if it doesn't require or prefer a JD. And it also includes private-sector jobs if your income is low enough to qualify. In my intended field this is great, since there really is no "biglaw" and the junior positions at even the best firms really don't pay enough to make the loans manageable.

I visited GULC earlier in the year and was floored by their LRAP program. Even more than that ridiculous $75,000 figure is that I believe you can make up to $140,000 and still get some payment made on your behalf (admittedly at that point it's completely miniscule)!

I started typing a list of LIPP gripes and concerns, but I think it would either derail this thread or get ignored. Would anyone be interested in a LIPP discussion? Maybe we could rope in some graduates or current students for insight.

Let's have this discussion! Please list your gripes and concerns to make sure mine are similar!