Defence: (the great libero, best defensive player ever)Speed: (fast, like always) (pretty good acceleration)Response: (the smartness made player)Dribble Accuracy: (elegant control of the ball)Dribble Speed: (fast footed when he wanted too)

***

"Franz Beckenbauer symbolises football, highlights and a winning mentality. On top of that, he brought the World Cup to his own country. We're proud of him."Boris Becker, German tennis great.

"He's a great mate. As a player, he was marked out by intelligence rather than strength. He was more Brazilian than German as a footballer."Pele, iconic Brazilian and Beckenbauer's team-mate at the New York Cosmos.

"The message he sent out was: 'Don't even try it. Coming out to face me is a waste of your time.'"Sir Bobby Charlton

"When I played football, I was always a forward for reasons of conviction and passion. Best of all, centre forward - surging towards the goal. Being a defender, centre-half, or even a sweeper was not for me. Others were more talented and more suited to that. That applied to one person in particular. I mean Franz Beckenbauer. As a footballer, he was blessed with so much talent and ability, that he embodies the perfect sweeper to this very day. Franz Beckenbauer was an exceptional player, who made his mark on football during the time that he played. He has shaped this sport, the language and rules of which are understood throughout the world, and interpreted it in a new way. He has given the "Number 5" a new dimension and from the classic sweeper has created the playing sweeper, who intervenes proactively in the offensive game of his team. Franz Beckenbauer was without doubt a reformer as regards football, if you like. I am certain, that without him, we could hardly have brought the 2006 FIFA World Cup to Germany. He was world champion in 1974 as a player, in 1990 he was world champion as team manager and in 2006 the chief organiser of the World Cup."Former German chancellor Gerhard Schroder

"He's the hero of our nation. It hasn't happened by chance, he's earned it by hard work."Gunter Netzer, former Germany international and team-mate

"Simplicity is the secret of his success. This man, with so much ability and an extraordinary career path, is the same lad he always was. Plenty of them go off the rails, but not him."Dettmar Cramer, former coach

"He's one of the all-time greats alongside Alfredo di Stefano or Pele."Sepp Herberger, German FIFA World Cup winning coach in 1954

Fides Posted: May 19 2008, 04:03 PM wrote:True response could be like 97/98. I would lower defense a little bit (91-93) because I dont think he among the best tacklers/defenders ever (I mean, he was a probably the best ever defensive player, but not in that sense....hmm cant really explain what I mean).

T-rex Posted: May 24 2008, 05:57 PM wrote:you have to drop it more 92-93 suit him perfectly Trust me

Attack: He's the best attacking defender of all time thats not even a question however thats because he charged up field he never really positioned himself well, I mean did he ever need to? I suggest a slight drop to 79.

Dribble Accuracy: He had elegant controlling of the ball but the ball wasn't always 'glued' to his feet like 91 would suggest it probably should be around 87 possibly an 88 at the absolute most.

Shooting stats: He had a great shot for a centre-back but with these stats and middle shooting its not quite right he didn't really shoot from awkward angles but more about pure accuracy I'd say

Shot Accuracy: 83Shot Power: 93Shot Technique: 81

Freee Kick Accuracy: How many free-kicks did he actually take? I never thought he took any and can't find anything about his free-kicks. Should be low 70's.

Curling: He smashed his shots they didn't really have any curl on them just deadly accurate laser beams perhaps 72/73.

Technique: A super,super touch bt come on its 10 points higher than any other classic CWP/CB its not quite 'god region' perhaps 92?

Aggression: Always bobming forward and could be even higher. 85/86?

Mentality: Right now this is going to cause some controversy but I want to do possibly the biggest drop of any stat in pes stat database history I want to lower Beckenbauer's mentality by 25 points to 70! Dun dun dun. Now many people will have disagreed to this already but let me explain Beckenbauer with 95 mentality he chase players down like theres no tommorow he'll keep running after players even when his stamina bar is depleted. But Beckenbauer was never like that he was famed for playing in a relaxed manner and didn't chse players down because he simply didn't need to his reading of the game and positions sense where so good he had no need to chase anyone down. Which is what Mentality 70 will make him do.

Vandenache I am with you where low Mentality is concerned, I have been actually using 75 on him for a while (but mostly at CMF in a 4-2-4) and he seems fine, his 99 Response means he is after nearly everyball in midfield anyways because he has the ultimate awarness. ??

But seriously he is a bit more conservative and I have to agree more realistic, it really is a shame that Konami made Mentality govern multiple areas of the game, as this makes people really divided on an issue like this. Mentality this site recognizes as the prime motivator in chasing down the ball, but it also does count a little to Konami's explanation of a player raising their game in difficult circumstances. And some users are reluctant to see great players with 'poor' Mentality as they were great leaders, themselves never gave in, but at some point if a player was lazy or relaxed I think he should have an accordingly lower rating in Mentality.

Well anyways enough of my jibber jabber, I would like to test your other suggestions before aggreing or disagreeing.

Firstly sorry about the name thing I just read your name as 'Vandenache' as it sounds better to me, that is more lyrical than Vandache and it enters my mind when I instantly see your name, so I will have to be diligent to avoid writing your name incorrectly. It really does sound better if you sing it, are you sure your name is not Vandenache. XD

Attack:79 --I see your point in his positional sense might seem too good for a defender but he played as a CMF years earlier and was a real boc-to box player that was devestaing when on the attack in the incisivness of his runs..I simply am not sure, is he 3 points behind Gerrard? Does Gerrard really use much positional senese to get onto crosses and through balls, or like Beckenbauer relies on his team understanding? Really cannot decide if he should go down. Also something to note prehaps, when I was testing Masopust's stats I found that there is a difference (PES 5) between a player of 80 or 79 Attack when they are dribbling through midfield, the 80 is a sort of barrier that allows players to be that bit more instinctive when they try to surge through a clogged midfield and dribbling if for me noticably a slight better difference.

Dribble Accuracy:88 --I disagree his contol may not have looked refined when he blazed through midfield because he just pushed the ball forward often, but once he reached more normal velocities he maintained a true elegant control, that for me would be minimum 90, but I think 91 is fine.

Shot Accuracy:83 --AgreeShot Power: 93Shot Technique:81 --Agree

Free Kick Accuracy: 72(?) --Disagree with such a low number, yes he did take FreeKicks, how many he scored I have no clue, but he definately did take them, I would though Agree with a reduction to 81-82 to better fit ladders as I am unsure of his proficeny with them, this would place him at or below C. Ronaldo who wastes but has scored and is an aknowledged set-piece taker.

Curling: 72/73 --Disagree, yes most of his shots were straight as an arrow, but a few did have some noticable twist to them, also his passing would be affected by such a dramatic decrease, especially his Long Passing which rightfully has Long Pass Speed at 77 as he lobbed many of his air passes and the Curling helps to replicate that effect of the ball dipping quicker. He also has *Middle Shooting which straightens out many of the long distance shots, so the effect of Curling is barely noticable.

Technique: 92 --Agree but your point of him being a defender thus it is too much I do not think is correct, to me if a player displays the value then he has it, anyways 95 seemed too high for his touch, though this might be a point or two too low and 93 may be a better fit, but that is just me going silly.

Aggression:85/86 --Agree with 86, might have been the 83 when he was in midfiled as to keep him from being in the box too much, but sicne he was deeper at this age should be higher.

Mentality: 70 --Agree

A suggestion by me, a raise to his Agility to 84, the second and third videos have nice demonstration I think of his ball control and agility on it, in my opinion he seems to be more agile than what I have seen of from Boniek at 83.

And Accelration I think can be raised +1 to 86 at least, as though he mostly used his pace in his youth to zoom by, he still had a pretty lethal accelerator in his olden days ...at 29. XD

Also I Agree to the decreasing his Defence to 93 that Was suggested on the old site by Fides and agreed on by T-Rex, due to the fact that his actual defensive strengths lay in his reading of the game, and his positional ability was not Nesta like at all, but he indeed still was very good, also like Fides mentioned this 95 in addition to Response 99 means his tackling is just too precise and clean even without the aid of a star. His speed is also a great asset to his capabilities as a defender.

I agree with everything said but I feel that 70 for mentality is too drastic, theirs no way id rate it on par with Adriano or someone. Your right to lower it as he relied on his reading on the game rather than busting a sweat and closing people down everywhere, but putting in too low will have an adverse affect on the other purpose of mentality. He won't perform that well under pressure or try and carry the team forward, that's not the Beckenbauer i saw at the 74 world cup, Id say that 75-79 region that Oriello tested would be fine

" If I have seen a little further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants." - Isaac Newton

Vandeach wrote:Mentality: Right now this is going to cause some controversy but I want to do possibly the biggest drop of any stat in pes stat database history I want to lower Beckenbauer's mentality by 25 points to 70! Dun dun dun. Now many people will have disagreed to this already but let me explain Beckenbauer with 95 mentality he chase players down like theres no tommorow he'll keep running after players even when his stamina bar is depleted. But Beckenbauer was never like that he was famed for playing in a relaxed manner and didn't chse players down because he simply didn't need to his reading of the game and positions sense where so good he had no need to chase anyone down. Which is what Mentality 70 will make him do.

ok I get the point ... but as it stands now is aggression/mentality ratio right ... especially considering the attack/defence ratio ... this needs testing ... I am not sure at all to what he would be drawn to with these stats