Flash has it's place …but not in video distribution (where the majority of Flash on the web is used)

Just a note …Adobe has created their own Flash to iPhone conversion kit. They have the power to take all those wonderful games and export them out as apps for the iPhone. THAT is going to be the way these Games, etc. get on the iPhone …I really don't think you'll see Flash as a Safari plugin.

Flash has a VERY solid place in web video. The view you're touting is pretty much the same as what people used to say about javascript (and coincidentally, actionscript, the scripting language of Flash, is part of the same ECMAScripting standard as javascript), and is generally perpetuated by people who abuse it (again, same as javascript). To state that it has no place in web video is gross absolutism and just plain wrong.

Why do you think we need to wrap video in Flash? (other than DRM?) It's unbelievably inefficient on the Mac side. I can't watch hulu anywhere close to fullscreen on my C2D iMac because it chokes …that's pathetic (actually I watch hulu fullscreen on my iMac by leaving the hulu window native size and then zooming in via OS X's screen magnification ) I'll take the Netflix/silverlight experience any day over Flash …it really is that bad.

Again, the iPad needs Flash. And it isn't about Flash. It isn't about security. It isn't about resource usage. It's about Apple. Apple won't add it, because they want consumers to buy content through them, and support their formats. Developers will port Flash content and games only because they're forced to. This will result in a lot of content being available in Flash that isn't available for Apple devices, and puts an unfair strain on those developers.

If you think it's mostly about making money from the app store, I think you are mistaken. It's about having full control over their product's stability, security, and overall user experience. The app store is just one of the many reasons they don't want it on their products.

I don't understand how you're having issues with Hulu in fullscreen on your iMac, when it performs just fine on my 2+ years-old MacBook Pro, and the security issues are WAY overblown. Again, most of the reasoning you've listed is rooted more in heresay, and less in truth.

_________________________“Creative ability is best displayed with the most basic tools."

I don't understand how you're having issues with Hulu in fullscreen on your iMac, when it performs just fine on my 2+ years-old MacBook Pro, and the security issues are WAY overblown. Again, most of the reasoning you've listed is rooted more in heresay, and less in truth.

My iMac is 3 years old now …it's a 2.16ghz C2D. It is the 24" model with a resolution of 1920x1200. What are the specs for you MBP and are you running Snow Leopard?

Flash being proprietary is not heresay. Apple doesn't want anything on the iPhone/iPod that they can't fix or optimize themselves.

The fact that Flash is owned by Adobe has nothing to do with what we've been discussing, so I couldn't care less if it were heresay or not. That said, I'm sure, if they wanted to, they could work something out with Adobe. It wouldn't be the first time, and Adobe would probably be all for it. Of course, it's probably not going to happen (Apple, wanting control? Well, duh), but Apple has surprised me before. Hell, Apple already releases its own implementation of Java for OS X, and despite it always being a bit behind Sun's, it's pretty damn good (better, in some ways) imho.

Look, if you're happy with the iPad the way it is, fine. More power to you. It's a big industry with lots of choices, so everyone will eventually find theirs. Just don't try to convince the rest of us with reasons lacking logic, or sweeping statements about a platform or language suddenly becoming irrelevant, because we know better and aren't buying it.

_________________________“Creative ability is best displayed with the most basic tools."

Hey, I'm not happy that a lot of web pages are going to have big blue plugin icons littered throughout either …I just realize that the sooner HTML5 video is commonplace the better for all of us. The pain is worth the gain. (at least to me)

My reasons aren't lacking logic. I'm looking at this from Apple's point of view, not from the perspective of someone who loves Flash games.

Hey, I'm not happy that a lot of web pages are going to have big blue plugin icons littered throughout either …I just realize that the sooner HTML5 video is commonplace the better for all of us. The pain is worth the gain. (at least to me)

My reasons aren't lacking logic. I'm looking at this from Apple's point of view, not from the perspective of someone who loves Flash games.

Who said I love Flash games? I own and play two. I will say, however, there's more interactive content on the web than just games, for which Flash is well-suited. I'm looking at this from the perspective of a web developer- not necessarily a Flash developer (though actionscript is on my list of things to learn this year), but one who understands Flash's place on the web, and is responding to a pretty blunt statement you made. As for your stance on Apple, we know this already. While I don't expect Apple will change it in the near future, I think it's flawed. I'll add that I also think HTML 5 video is a good thing, but it's not going to be a catch-all, anymore than any other offering, and HTML 5 is still a few years off. As such, those parts of it which may already be working are still going to be adopted slowly.

_________________________“Creative ability is best displayed with the most basic tools."

I said above that Flash has it's place on the Web. One instance I can think of is mint.com. They've got some really nice stuff there. They've also got a dedicated iPhone app so iPhone users aren't left out in the cold.

The only areas where I think Flash should die is Video (at least non-DRM video) and advertisements. Unfortunately for Flash that's the majority of what it's used for.

If Flash for Mac didn't suck so bad, I really think we wouldn't be having this conversation. The fact that it uses up so much CPU and crashes so often makes me hate it, period. I'm biased. If Adobe fixed it, I really could see myself changing my mind about the whole thing.

PC users looking to buy an iPad are much less likely to understand why Flash isn't on the thing because it's always run perfectly fine for them. Mac and Linux users have a better chance of seeing the big picture.

Actually, in my experience, Flash for Mac sucks eggs and balls on Safari and it is dog slow...not so much on Firefox, Opera seems to play nice, too. Flash is a resource hog nevertheless. Won't take long ever for the fan on my macbook to start making noise, but haven't had a crash so far.

OTOH, as a web designer, I dislike the overuse of Flash in general, although I do like its capabilities. Just that too many times I see things done in Flash when the same functionality could be perfectly achieved with just XHTML+CSS, maybe some Javascript on the side.

Actually, in my experience, Flash for Mac sucks eggs and balls on Safari and it is dog slow...not so much on Firefox, Opera seems to play nice, too. Flash is a resource hog nevertheless. Won't take long ever for the fan on my macbook to start making noise, but haven't had a crash so far.

OTOH, as a web designer, I dislike the overuse of Flash in general, although I do like its capabilities. Just that too many times I see things done in Flash when the same functionality could be perfectly achieved with just XHTML+CSS, maybe some Javascript on the side.

I think that sums it up pretty well, especially in relation to what I've mentioned- its abuse. There seem to be a collection of developers who do nothing but Flash, so they use it everywhere it shouldn't be used, because they're either lazy or unskilled in other areas. As far as being a resource hog, well, so are javascript and AJAX, when used for many of the same applications. I do think it could be improved if Apple did something with it, as they did with Java.

_________________________“Creative ability is best displayed with the most basic tools."

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