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The catch is that there must be a permit for all work and it must be inspected by the (licesned) plumbing inspector.

to PlumberRICK: I have seen it enforced!! Cost the cheats a TON of money. Stronger enforecement = better quality of work and protection community health. Yet another reason to write your state congressman and lobby for more stringent laws and TOUGHER ENFORCEMENT! We're working on getting more state inspectors here in IL, but I'm not holding my breath. IL has the 2nd lowest credit rating in the country (slightly ahead of CA )

And don't even get me started on the lack of enforecement for backflow prevention!!

-Chris

So with that catch some towns make it the only way a home owner can get a plumbing permit is if they hire a plumber. I know this cause I been asked my many home owners to pull a permit for them and let them do the work and get it inspected. I always explain to these home owners the only way I will pull a permit is for work I am doing .

So with that catch some towns make it the only way a home owner can get a plumbing permit is if they hire a plumber. I know this cause I been asked my many home owners to pull a permit for them and let them do the work and get it inspected. I always explain to these home owners the only way I will pull a permit is for work I am doing .

The town has the right to make their code MORE STRINGENT than the state code. Those people that want you to pull a permit for them are probably not the homeowner of PRINCIPAL RESIDENCE (ie they live there, not an investment or income property).

at least 50% (probably much more) of the minor rehab work done in the chicago area is done fly-by-night without a permit and with complete disregard for codes. We're making money by correcting all the BS work of the last 25 years on the foreclosures. Most towns around here get a building inspector in when it's a foreclosure or short sale. So now time to correct all the basement bathrooms without an ejector, poorly installed water and heating piping and anything else that isn't up to snuff.

Very well stated, and I believe this is only the beginning and commercial work will follow suit. Our trade has whored itself to the point that the term "skilled" needs a reevaluation. Lets be honest, how much knowledge does it take to shark bite a couple pieces of plastic together. I have had many customers/contractors challenge me on the code with the mind set that the UPC is set up to protect our jobs and cost more money rather protect their own health. As the skill involved in this trade declines so will the pay, demand and overall standard of living for professionals. Lets all give a big Thanks to HGTV and Home Depot.

If I haven't mentioned it on this thread, or forum for that matter, here's what was said again,

and this is just in my area.

"The flow of traffic (customers) dropped off a cliff this week."

They went on to say that they know it will pick up, because it always will.

What I found really disturbing though is people are scrapping out at enormous levels right now, and the waiting lines to get through the corral to get your materials dropped and counted is a minimum 1 hour, doesn't matter if you get there when they open or when they close.

I have a good thread idea I'm going to toss monday that might be something someone has never thought of before. We'll see.

Comment

Plumbing supply houses should be more like hvac supply houses. Here in the bay area you cant buy any hvac parts from the supply house unless a) you have a valid hvac license or b you work for a licensed contractor. They make it to easy for anyone to be a weekend plumber. They sell drain machines to anybody as well as material. Hell home depot sells pex piping here. Pex wasn't approved for use in all california cities until september of last year and home depot was carrying it since 2008. How soon will it be before joe the home owner tries to repipe his own house? Of course thats more money for us but that isn't the point. We work hard to learn and perfect our trade and it should be accesible to just anyone off the street.

Comment

Last weekend a buddy of mine calls me witha bradford white water heater problem, he replaced the thermocouple and it still didnt stay lit. K, go pick up a replacement gas valve from locke and I will stop by and put it in for you.

"They won't sell it to me."
Say what?
"Ya they told me they won't sell it to me unless I am a plumber and can show them my license."

Tulsa, OK

Well played sir, well played.

My avatar, is every mans wet dream, don't lie. We all know you ride the bedroom moped

Mick, yeah, I see that you were not advocating restricting sales to plumbers only... sorry. Some others are, though. I have no problem with people in the trades getting a break on the parts.

Regarding emplyees washing their hands.... come on now..... the health inspectors here just ask the employee. There is no verification. The boss doesn't follow the employee to the head. You don't really think that every employee washes every time just because he's supposed to, do you? That's no more likely than every homeowner getting a permit for everything he does just because he's supposed to.

The water heater doesn't come with the expansion tank when you buy it. That was my point. If the heaters were sold with the safety device (tank or one that has yet to be designed) built in, taking its installation out of the hand of the installer, things would get safer. I acknowledge, by taking this position, that not all people do the best thing every time. That goes for plumbers and electricians, too.

Regarding backflow, I see your point about unqualified persons with uncalibrated test tools. However, in my case there is no annual requirement, so yes I feel that I am doing better than local code. Is it enough? You could make a good argument, but the law here says it is. I do think that I can tell if I have a problem with my backflow preventer and that's why I bother.

As for the utility taking over the responsibility for backflow maintenance, you defined the convention that's in force now... i.e., "they don't want it (the water) back". Ok, I'm just suggesting that the water company be responsible to make sure that they don't get it back. That's do-able by local government. And, since it's a matter of public interest, and the utility is responsible for providing clean water to everyone, this seems to me to make the most sense.

I think we're not all that far apart. As long as I can buy the parts I need, I'm happy. Thanks for your posts... interesting discussion.

8 years ago in IL we had a village in the north side that every 6 weaks they would get complaints of bad tasteing water and foual smell from the water all within about 1 square mile . with extensive testing and investigation they determined the sorrce was from a house where the home owner installed there own iragation system in there lawn .They didnt use a backflow preventor so every time they fertalized there lawn and waterd it after the iragation system would syphon contaminated water back into the city water and contaminate the city water .just remember the licensed plumber protects the health of the nation!!!
so if you want to save a few dollars ask yourself this if you need heart surgury would you go to a heart doctor or would you call joe the plumber!!!

8 years ago in IL we had a village in the north side that every 6 weaks they would get complaints of bad tasteing water and foual smell from the water all within about 1 square mile . with extensive testing and investigation they determined the sorrce was from a house where the home owner installed there own iragation system in there lawn .They didnt use a backflow preventor so every time they fertalized there lawn and waterd it after the iragation system would syphon contaminated water back into the city water and contaminate the city water .just remember the licensed plumber protects the health of the nation!!!
so if you want to save a few dollars ask yourself this if you need heart surgury would you go to a heart doctor or would you call joe the plumber!!!

How in the heck did it get fertilizer in the system, every time? Wouldn't there have to be a loss of water pressure, on the city supply for that to happen? And if there is pressure losses this often, then city has many other problems too.
I could see that happening if the HO had another water connection hooked up, like from a well, but then he would also have to have a cross connection hooked up to city water too. Sounds like there is alot more to the story there, IMO.

How in the heck did it get fertilizer in the system, every time? Wouldn't there have to be a loss of water pressure, on the city supply for that to happen? And if there is pressure losses this often, then city has many other problems too.
I could see that happening if the HO had another water connection hooked up, like from a well, but then he would also have to have a cross connection hooked up to city water too. Sounds like there is alot more to the story there, IMO.

Sounds Questionable !

I can build anything You want , if you draw a picture of it , on the back of a big enough check .

How in the heck did it get fertilizer in the system, every time? Wouldn't there have to be a loss of water pressure, on the city supply for that to happen? And if there is pressure losses this often, then city has many other problems too.
I could see that happening if the HO had another water connection hooked up, like from a well, but then he would also have to have a cross connection hooked up to city water too. Sounds like there is alot more to the story there, IMO.

Im not sure how it hapend I just remember some of this the problem hapened 8 years ago and the house was 2 doors down from the owner of the plumbing comp. that I worked for and he worked hand in hand with the inspector and a few the other plumbers in the company . This was never reported and I dont now why I just remember . the home owner ended up haveing to rip out the iragation system copletly not just install a backflow because they didnt get a permit and they were find . They also were find the price of flushing the vilage water supply . After which they moved because no one wanted them there

Comment

I think I have made comments on previous posts similar to this topic. I read and understand and sympathise with almost all. The critical point is that Governments burden us with regulations and discipline us to the max. We are forced to carry insurance, invest in equipment that lasts more than the one job etc etc. So then we move to the question of what happens when it all goes pear-shaped????
Well this is interesting because this is where the Insurance Companies get involved. Now if it was us then we are stuffed. But, and I say but, the beloved homeowner who was just trying to DIY, well they cant fly them from a flag-pole because they dont want bad publicity. If they do what is right then they lose business. So, they pay up. But wait, there is more, our policies go up to subsidise this. It is wrong. We are paying for corrupt behaviour of Insurance Companies. And just to add to the disgrace is Governments alike condone this behaviour. THey actually encourage this becasue yes you got it right, they get money in the form of taxes.

I might sound cynical but it is a viscious circle which we all work inside. I personally dont care for those who choose to DIY, just dont gob off like fools and say you are as good as us because you DIY. I am proud of my trade and the knowlege that many have imparted and entrusted to me. I get pleasure from seeing some smart-arses come undone and then beg for help. So to end this post I ask one thing, why do we get punished for mistakes(which we do make but rarely I hope) and the DIY dont??????
Answer this and resolve the level playing field and we will see harmony in teh marketplace.