Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 2:33 am Post subject: Is It a ST60 or a ST80?

I've read here & there and I still haven't been able to determine if this Tokai is a ST60 or a ST80 model. I know that someone out there with more knowledge than me can make an educated guess. So, what is it experts?

Hi guys,
this guitar is an ST-50 YSOR. It's the 'U' that gives it away, in that Goldstar sounds had different pickup letters for ST-50's and ST-60's - Springysounds did not.
It has an obvious Alder body, 1963 radius fingerboard and square string tree, but on an ST-60 Goldstar, the pickups are stamped "V'.

regards
Peter mac_________________The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

thanks guys for the plethora of Tokai info; this forum is the place to go for info

I'm really glad that I now have a much better understanding of this animal, even though its value (technically) just dropped, again

So Peter, do you know what the difference between the U stamped and V stamped pups are? Is it the magnets, windings, any idea why the models ST50 and ST60 would have an original price difference of I suppose 10,000 yen, because of the pups?

Even more confusing is that Goldstar Sound strat specs (from the first year - 1984) say that TST-50 should have "ST Vintage mkII" pickups (stamped VII) (TST-60, ST Vintage pickups, stamped V as Peter Mac mentioned). Many early Goldstars however are equipped with the "U" stamped pickups used for the Springy's. "U" and "VII" pickups are not the same, the "U" pickups have slightly higher DC resistance.

I suspect Tokai continued using the "U" pickups they still had left and then replaced them with the "VII" pickups.

Even more confusing is that Goldstar Sound strat specs (from the first year - 1984) say that TST-50 should have "ST Vintage mkII" pickups (stamped VII) (TST-60, ST Vintage pickups, stamped V as Peter Mac mentioned). Many early Goldstars however are equipped with the "U" stamped pickups used for the Springy's. "U" and "VII" pickups are not the same, the "U" pickups have slightly higher DC resistance.

I suspect Tokai continued using the "U" pickups they still had left and then replaced them with the "VII" pickups.

Mike

I wonder if the combination of the U stamped pups & the L115** serial number means anything as far as the transition time frame from Springy to Goldstar?

hi guys,
- Mike, that is a great point, considering that Tokai had 2 styles going ( ST for Local market and TST for export market) It could be that there were slight differences in the final build.

In terms of serial numbers, after 1982 they were purely cosmetic. They are designed to reflect the vintage model of Fender they are replicating - not Tokai serialing numbers.
To me, L115** would indicate a guitar made after 1984 if placed in a chronological build order.
Also in the detail of Goldstar the ONLY major difference between the ST-50 and the ST-60 was the pickups.....so spend another 30,000 yen and it will be an ST-70 [ not really - but the theory is somewhat correct]
Also why is it that it can't be a brilliant guitar - as you say the best Goldstar you've ever played- and not be an ST-80??
I have owned and played some real 5H1Tbox 1960 Fenders (worth 40 times as much as the ST-50) which should have been coffee tables.
It's not what brand you play - its how your guitar feels and reponds as you explore her tones...
regards
Peter Mac_________________The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

hi guys,
- Mike, that is a great point, considering that Tokai had 2 styles going ( ST for Local market and TST for export market) It could be that there were slight differences in the final build.

In terms of serial numbers, after 1982 they were purely cosmetic. They are designed to reflect the vintage model of Fender they are replicating - not Tokai serialing numbers.
To me, L115** would indicate a guitar made after 1984 if placed in a chronological build order.
Also in the detail of Goldstar the ONLY major difference between the ST-50 and the ST-60 was the pickups.....so spend another 30,000 yen and it will be an ST-70 [ not really - but the theory is somewhat correct]
Also why is it that it can't be a brilliant guitar - as you say the best Goldstar you've ever played- and not be an ST-80??
I have owned and played some real 5H1Tbox 1960 Fenders (worth 40 times as much as the ST-50) which should have been coffee tables.
It's not what brand you play - its how your guitar feels and reponds as you explore her tones...
regards
Peter Mac

It IS a brilliant Strat, it IS the best Tokai Strat I've ever played, and I was making an honest attempt at locating as much information as possible concerning it, in comparison to other similar models so, as to peg this particular example with a model number, nothing more or less than others do in this forum................................._________________http://members.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewUserPage&userid=mij_vintage

"Yeah, yeah. We're in the bureau of beer and fire and cigarettes. And maybe some chicks, too." - Beavis

Hi MIJ
My comment was more to do with the "i'm losing value" remark.
Personally I'm pleased a forum member is making enquiries about his 'Lucille' to better appreciate the gem he owns.
What I don't want to see is the type of snobbery that exists with other brands ( oh, it's ONLY a 50 series, mine's an 80 series)

I own a 1947 Harley Knucklehead - pretty rare bike. I don't ride with a club, i ride for me. When i stop beside other bikes - regardless of Brand - i always nod to the rider as a show of respect because i don't care what you're riding . to me it's the fact that you ride.

If we wanted to have a Tokai pissing comp i'd fare pretty well also - considering i have owned a 82 TLS-200 and Tokai M2002 prototype but this is not what it is about. How can you lose value when you've found the guitar that completes you.
It was not my intent to be offensive and if i was, i apologise and i say to you Thanks for being a member and sharing your opinions and questions, i look forward to hearing about further Tokais you will purchase and help kepp the legend living

regards
Peter Mac_________________The world will not end today...because it is already tomorrow in Australia.

I agree - I have some SS38 and SS40 Silver Stars that are killer, in every regard. Haven't swapped the pickups (they are 25-plus years old) and they are fun to play, even with worn frets. I don't care if I ever see or play an SS80 or higher. I also love my lowly LS50 Reborn Old.

To each his own, I say, but cork-sniffers of every stripe, from vintage wine to curly maple, are indeed tedious, IMO.