there, I came out of the closet. I think he has all the tools, give him a good O line and WRs who can catch (think Bess) and he will flourish. Look at what he did to the Jets and Pats last year. Sparano and Henning need to quit handcuffing him and let him throw the ball. There, I am done. Bring the hate.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 12:57 pm

10acjed

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Marshall can catch, its a bit early to forget this season. He has stretched out for many grabs that alot of WR never would have caught...Unfortunately the DB's/LB's dont get more than 10 yards away from him so after the catch he is swarmed. Bess has excelled because of marshall. Its impossible to double both of them, and not many DB's can keep up with his athletic ability to cut and change direction..

Hartline has been doing a great job, remember he is in his second year and he was looking alot better than his first...

Henne has not had a very good year, alot of pressure and it gets worse with every bad throw.I dont know if he is or isnt, really sick of waiting for the next guy to develop or whatever, the revolving QB situation here has really taken its toll and I dont know if anyone can develop fast enough...

I doubt this staff puts all its trust and faith in Henne, he will have competition this off season and in camp.

I am a supporter of everyone, except Henning. I think Henning is a big part of Henne's struggles...

But I am also not jumping on the Henne for the future bus either. Not til he can get some better accuracy on the deep throws... He has botched too many of those this year...

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Last edited by 10acjed on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:05 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

10acjed wrote:

Marshall can catch, its a bit early to forget this season. He has stretched out for many grabs that alot of WR never would have caught...Unfortunately the DB's/LB's dont get more than 10 yards away from him so after the catch he is swarmed. Bess has excelled because of marshall. Its impossible to double both of them, and not many DB's can keep up with his athletic ability to cut and change direction..

Hartline has been doing a great job, remember he is in his second year and he was looking alot better than his first...

Henne has not had a very good year, alot of pressure and it gets worse with every bad throw.I dont know if he is or isnt, really sick of waiting for the next guy to develop or whatever, the revolving QB situation here has really taken its toll and I dont know if anyone can develop fast enough...

I doubt this staff puts all its trust and faith in Henne, he will have competition this off season and in camp.

I just keep thinking Henning and Sparano have him so scared to make a turnover that he is pressing, and when a QB isn't comfortable, bad things happen. FYI, LOVE Hartline, I mean he is a Buckeye after all!

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:06 pm

eleaf

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

dolphinjim wrote:

there, I came out of the closet. I think he has all the tools, give him a good O line and WRs who can catch (think Bess) and he will flourish. Look at what he did to the Jets and Pats last year. Sparano and Henning need to quit handcuffing him and let him throw the ball. There, I am done. Bring the hate.

I am with you minus the "handcuffed" nonsense. From everything I gather, Henne has had his deficiencies running the offense the way it is designed. Early on he called lots of max protections limiting his options and threw check downs as opposed to the long play as the safe route.

He needs a running game and better pass protection.

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:08 pm

10acjed

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

See edited message, I somewhat agree. Although I blame Henning more than Sparano. But the last few games showed alot more deep throws that Henne just didnt seem to be able to make..He has the arm, but was a bit off target...

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:10 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

10acjed wrote:

See edited message, I somewhat agree. Although I blame Henning more than Sparano. But the last few games showed alot more deep throws that Henne just didnt seem to be able to make..He has the arm, but was a bit off target...

We don't really have deep threats at WR, I would be surprised if they practiced deep throws that much.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:17 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

10acjed wrote:

See edited message, I somewhat agree. Although I blame Henning more than Sparano. But the last few games showed alot more deep throws that Henne just didnt seem to be able to make..He has the arm, but was a bit off target...

I absolutely agree with your take on Henning. He has showed me absolutely nothing this year. More questionable playcalls than I can count. Time to put the old man out to pasture. This isn't the 70's or 80's anymore. The days of run first are over, this is a passing league now. Look at the last 7 superbowl winners, all have STUD QBs, except maybe the Giants. I don't feel like doing the research, but maybe somebody else can tell me in those 7 superbowls, did the winning team even have a 1000 yard RB? I am betting no.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:21 pm

jammer

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Shouldn't be a crime or shameful act to support Henne. Its just tough to back it up when he has struggled at times this season. It would seem that his flaws are correctable given that he has the arm and has made some great throws. The problem is it will take more than just a few weeks, and none of us know for sure if Miami will give him another shot.

Too easy to just give up on him.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:42 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

jammer wrote:

Shouldn't be a crime or shameful act to support Henne. Its just tough to back it up when he has struggled at times this season. It would seem that his flaws are correctable given that he has the arm and has made some great throws. The problem is it will take more than just a few weeks, and none of us know for sure if Miami will give him another shot.

Too easy to just give up on him.

It's too late, I am out of the closet. I will take the abuse that is sure to come.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:49 pm

10acjed

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

dolphinjim wrote:

10acjed wrote:

See edited message, I somewhat agree. Although I blame Henning more than Sparano. But the last few games showed alot more deep throws that Henne just didnt seem to be able to make..He has the arm, but was a bit off target...

We don't really have deep threats at WR, I would be surprised if they practiced deep throws that much.

Fast 40 times dont = deep threat WR's.. Hartline is a deep threat, he has some good route running abilities and had his man beat on 2 or 3 different plays that game. Henne was just off target.

While Bess or Marshall really arent deep threats, they run the routes right and draw extra cover from the deep safety and it leaves Hartline one on one on the outside..

We have a nice trio of different skill sets. Just need better playcalling to utilize them...

dink n dunk is good for game management. But there comes a time where defenses just arent fooled anymore....

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:57 pm

jammer

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

dolphinjim wrote:

jammer wrote:

Shouldn't be a crime or shameful act to support Henne. Its just tough to back it up when he has struggled at times this season. It would seem that his flaws are correctable given that he has the arm and has made some great throws. The problem is it will take more than just a few weeks, and none of us know for sure if Miami will give him another shot.

Too easy to just give up on him.

It's too late, I am out of the closet. I will take the abuse that is sure to come.

Not sure you want to associate supporting Henne with coming out of the closet. Giving the bashers way too much ammo.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:58 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

jammer wrote:

dolphinjim wrote:

jammer wrote:

Shouldn't be a crime or shameful act to support Henne. Its just tough to back it up when he has struggled at times this season. It would seem that his flaws are correctable given that he has the arm and has made some great throws. The problem is it will take more than just a few weeks, and none of us know for sure if Miami will give him another shot.

Too easy to just give up on him.

It's too late, I am out of the closet. I will take the abuse that is sure to come.

Not sure you want to associate supporting Henne with coming out of the closet. Giving the bashers way too much ammo.

See edited message, I somewhat agree. Although I blame Henning more than Sparano. But the last few games showed alot more deep throws that Henne just didnt seem to be able to make..He has the arm, but was a bit off target...

I absolutely agree with your take on Henning. He has showed me absolutely nothing this year. More questionable playcalls than I can count. Time to put the old man out to pasture. This isn't the 70's or 80's anymore. The days of run first are over, this is a passing league now. Look at the last 7 superbowl winners, all have STUD QBs, except maybe the Giants. I don't feel like doing the research, but maybe somebody else can tell me in those 7 superbowls, did the winning team even have a 1000 yard RB? I am betting no.

4 out of 7, running can still be the key to success, you just can't have a 3 ypc average.

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:04 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

ytnewton wrote:

dolphinjim wrote:

10acjed wrote:

See edited message, I somewhat agree. Although I blame Henning more than Sparano. But the last few games showed alot more deep throws that Henne just didnt seem to be able to make..He has the arm, but was a bit off target...

I absolutely agree with your take on Henning. He has showed me absolutely nothing this year. More questionable playcalls than I can count. Time to put the old man out to pasture. This isn't the 70's or 80's anymore. The days of run first are over, this is a passing league now. Look at the last 7 superbowl winners, all have STUD QBs, except maybe the Giants. I don't feel like doing the research, but maybe somebody else can tell me in those 7 superbowls, did the winning team even have a 1000 yard RB? I am betting no.

4 out of 7, running can still be the key to success, you just can't have a 3 ypc average.

Good researching! Pretty interesting though, looks like no year the rushing champion's team won the superbowl. Was Dillon rushing champ in 2005?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:12 pm

ytnewton

2011 NCAA Pick 'Em Champ

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:10 amPosts: 501

Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

In addition to the individual stats for 1000+ yard rushers, the more telling stat IMO is the team's overall rushing rank.10' NO #609' Pitt #2308' NYG #407' Colts #1806' Pitt #505' NE #704' NE #27Still 4 out of 7, but the 4 are all in the top seven. I still think running the ball effectively is the way to go.

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:16 pm

AQNOR

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

dolphinjim wrote:

there, I came out of the closet. I think he has all the tools, give him a good O line and WRs who can catch (think Bess) and he will flourish. Look at what he did to the Jets and Pats last year. Sparano and Henning need to quit handcuffing him and let him throw the ball. There, I am done. Bring the hate.

What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want good reasoned debate on the subjuct? The tone of your post dose not seem to indicate that but maybe I am misreading it.

If anyone disagrees with you does that automatically make them a hater?

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:18 pm

ytnewton

2011 NCAA Pick 'Em Champ

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:10 amPosts: 501

Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

dolphinjim wrote:

Good researching! Pretty interesting though, looks like no year the rushing champion's team won the superbowl. Was Dillon rushing champ in 2005?

No, Curtis Martin beat him by 62 yards and Shawn Alexander beat him by 61, 1,697 and 1,696 respectively.

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:19 pm

finfan808

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

10acjed wrote:

Bess has excelled because of marshall.

I think Bess has excelled because of Bess. 6 catches 111 yards against the raiders with no Marshall. Next game 1 catch 6 yards with Marshall.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:20 pm

ytnewton

2011 NCAA Pick 'Em Champ

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Having a good rushing attack is one thing. All the teams listed above also have a legit QB in addition to a good to great rushing attack.

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:21 pm

dolphinjim

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

AQNOR wrote:

dolphinjim wrote:

there, I came out of the closet. I think he has all the tools, give him a good O line and WRs who can catch (think Bess) and he will flourish. Look at what he did to the Jets and Pats last year. Sparano and Henning need to quit handcuffing him and let him throw the ball. There, I am done. Bring the hate.

What are you trying to accomplish? Do you want good reasoned debate on the subjuct? The tone of your post dose not seem to indicate that but maybe I am misreading it.

If anyone disagrees with you does that automatically make them a hater?

I don't see any posts in here openly defending Henne, but I see a ton hating him. Now there is one defending him. I don't care is somebody wants to debate it or not, I don't care if they hate it or not. I am merely making my stance public.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:23 pm

jammer

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Henne best go down in history as an All Pro QB or colossal bust with all of the emotion and time spent discussing his abilities as a QB.

I'll be the first to admit I do my share and that I want the guy to succeed big time.

He has been a very divisive topic around here.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:49 pm

AQNOR

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

dolphinjim wrote:

I don't see any posts in here openly defending Henne, but I see a ton hating him. Now there is one defending him. I don't care is somebody wants to debate it or not, I don't care if they hate it or not. I am merely making my stance public.

Ok, then I guess congratulations are in order. lol congrats.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:57 pm

Rock Sexton

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Bring the hate?

OK I see where this thread is going.

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:36 pm

Makchell

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

I think he needs to improve and there are questions surrounding him, but it's far to early to give up on him. We need to bring in a vet (orton if avail.) and draft a young QB with potential and see what happens. JMO

Tue Dec 14, 2010 4:11 pm

eleaf

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

ytnewton wrote:

In addition to the individual stats for 1000+ yard rushers, the more telling stat IMO is the team's overall rushing rank.10' NO #609' Pitt #2308' NYG #407' Colts #1806' Pitt #505' NE #704' NE #27Still 4 out of 7, but the 4 are all in the top seven. I still think running the ball effectively is the way to go.

Running the ball well does so many things that don't show on the scoreboard. It tires defenses, it can give you lopsided time of possession, etc. Most of all it keeps the opposition's offense off of the field. If you can't run the ball, you'd better have an elite QB, and the list bears that out: Big Ben, P Manning, and Tom Brady. And notice the 2 repeats in 1 year ran poorly, but the other year ran exquisitely well. Even NO wouldn't have been as successful without their top run running offense.

I don't buy that we're in a pass-first league all the way across. Only teams with top level QBs can afford to even try that route. Running the ball and stopping the run is still the best philosophical foundation on which to build a team.

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:45 pm

Rock Sexton

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Top 10 passing offenses right now .... their running games ranked in parenthesis .....

I think he needs to improve and there are questions surrounding him, but it's far to early to give up on him. We need to bring in a vet (orton if avail.) and draft a young QB with potential and see what happens. JMO

I'm ok with this. As long as Henne has competition. I truly think Orton would bring some good competition. As a side.. I'd like to see Pennington hired on as our QB coach and Lee promoted to OC when Henning is canned.. or honorably retires *eye roll*

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:13 pm

eleaf

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Rock Sexton wrote:

Top 10 passing offenses right now .... their running games ranked in parenthesis .....

And only 2 of those teams are sure to make the playoffs right now (NO, NE). There is a very good chance that Indy, Philly, SD, and GB miss them. 4 of them won't even sniff the playoffs (Dallas, Denver, Houston, Washington).

This data only strengthens my argument that this is NOT the pass first league everyone keeps telling me it is. And the ones that won't make the playoffs from this group won't make it because they are bad running teams (except Houston).

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:25 pm

10acjed

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

ytnewton wrote:

In addition to the individual stats for 1000+ yard rushers, the more telling stat IMO is the team's overall rushing rank.10' NO #6 Great QB09' Pitt #23 Great QB08' NYG #407' Colts #18 Great QB06' Pitt #5 Great QB05' NE #7 Great QB04' NE #27 Great QBStill 4 out of 7, but the 4 are all in the top seven. I still think running the ball effectively is the way to go.

Uh Ohh... I think I have found an interesting stat....

Although the loosing team in most of those had a pretty good QB to...

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Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:51 pm

LA Fins Fan

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Then you!have no Idea whats up !!! Henne is HORRIBLE !!!!!!

DONT FORGET 57TH PICK FOR A REASON, PEOPLE ALWAYS FORGET THAT !!!!

Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:37 am

Rock Sexton

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

eleaf wrote:

Rock Se8ton wrote:

Top 10 passing offenses right now .... their running games ranked in parenth%sis .....

And only 2 of those teams are sure to make the playoffs right now (NO, NE). There is a very good chance that Indy, Philly, SD, and GB miss them. 4 of them won't even sniff the playoffs (Dallas, Denver, Houston, Washington).

This datq only strengthens my argument that this is NOT phe pass first league everyone keeps telling me it is. And the ones that won't make the playoffs from this group won't make it because they are bad running teams (except Houston).

How does it strengthen your argument? This was about having a successful passing game an$ you mandated that Henne needs a running attack to perform better than this regression we've seen all year long.

NO and NE aren't even ranked in the top 10 in rushing attacks.

Regardless, a rushing attack is not the reason for Henne's inconsistencies. What does a running game have to do with all the underthrows and overthrows? Was it the running game's fault ie missed a wide open Brian Hartline down the sidelines in the Browns game? How about forcing the ball into tight coverage when he had a streaking Fasano over the middle wide open?

I don't think anybody here is going to sit there and say with a straight face that the ground game has been anything special, but for the majority of the year prior to the Chicago game/injuries we had an above average pass blocking team. He had plenty of time and q guy like Brandon Marshall dict`ting coverages .... yet he still regressed.

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Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:50 am

jammer

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Rock Sexton wrote:

How does it strengthen your argument? This was about having a successful passing game and you mandated that Henne needs a running attack to perform better than this regression we've seen all year long.

NO and NE aren't even ranked in the top 10 in rushing attacks.

Regardless, a rushing attack is not the reason for Henne's inconsistencies. What does a running game have to do with all the underthrows and overthrows? Was it the running game's fault he missed a wide open Brian Hartline down the sidelines in the Browns game? How about forcing the ball into tight coverage when he had a streaking Fasano over the middle wide open?

I don't think anybody here is going to sit there and say with a straight face that the ground game has been anything special, but for the majority of the year prior to the Chicago game/injuries we had an above average pass blocking team. He had plenty of time and a guy like Brandon Marshall dictating coverages .... yet he still regressed.

The running game isn't to blame for bad throws by Henne but it is a major factor in why this team isn't taking the next step. Henne isn't good enough to make up for the failure of the ground game. He might be next year or three years down the road, but right now he is a developing, mistake prone, young QB.

Some people here think they have found the solution to all problems and it is getting rid of Henne. Henne didn't cause the special teams implosion. Henne isn't the reason Brown and Williams have a combined 5 TDs this year. Henne isn't the reason the secondary gave up big TD passes in losses to NYJ, Pitt and Bal. Not sure why people can't comprehend that it is for various reasons that this team is a .500 ball club.

Wed Dec 15, 2010 11:52 am

Iowafin

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

ytnewton wrote:

In addition to the individual stats for 1000+ yard rushers, the more telling stat IMO is the team's overall rushing rank.10' NO #609' Pitt #2308' NYG #407' Colts #1806' Pitt #505' NE #704' NE #27Still 4 out of 7, but the 4 are all in the top seven. I still think running the ball effectively is the way to go.

And only 2 of those teams are sure to make the playoffs right now (NO, NE). There is a very good chance that Indy, Philly, SD, and GB miss them. 4 of them won't even sniff the playoffs (Dallas, Denver, Houston, Washington).

This data only strengthens my argument that this is NOT the pass first league everyone keeps telling me it is. And the ones that won't make the playoffs from this group won't make it because they are bad running teams (except Houston).

How does it strengthen your argument? This was about having a successful passing game and you mandated that Henne needs a running attack to perform better than this regression we've seen all year long.

NO and NE aren't even ranked in the top 10 in rushing attacks.

Regardless, a rushing attack is not the reason for Henne's inconsistencies. What does a running game have to do with all the underthrows and overthrows? Was it the running game's fault he missed a wide open Brian Hartline down the sidelines in the Browns game? How about forcing the ball into tight coverage when he had a streaking Fasano over the middle wide open?

I don't think anybody here is going to sit there and say with a straight face that the ground game has been anything special, but for the majority of the year prior to the Chicago game/injuries we had an above average pass blocking team. He had plenty of time and a guy like Brandon Marshall dictating coverages .... yet he still regressed.

We had an above average pass blocking oline because Henne was calling for loads and loads of max protection. It wasn't just the oline that blocked; it was everyone. The TEs stayed in, as did any RBs. He has been calling for fewer and fewer max protections of late, likely because he was receiving criticism for not taking enough calculated risks (throwing deep in the passing game). Calling fewer max protections in the last few games has shown the vulnerabilities of the line. They are a weak area of the team (again) in both the run game by not consistently creating running lanes, and the pass game by allowing LOTS of sacks. Some of that is indecision on Henne's part, but much of it is guys running freely at the QB because someone missed their block. Against the Jets it happened on both the right side, when Pace plowed Henne and caused a fumble, as well as a ILBs up the middle unchallenged. Our oline is not NEARLY as good as any of us might think. It seems in a transition phase. We're having to start over because we released 3 guys from our VERY EXPENSIVE oline; Grove, Smiley and Thomas. When they were on the field, they were fantastic. But none of them could stay on the field. The other 31 teams agree because those guys are not playing much football on Sundays (Smiley was traded, and has also has only played in 5 games this season. Donald is now on the Lions, but has not played. Grove watches the NFL from his couch like the rest of us). Our oline is in serious trouble right now. We're depleted personnel-wise, and those remaining have been playing hurt. We can't hold anyone back for very long. The deficiencies along the oline start to reveal themselves. That's why we scored 10 in the first quarter and that's it; we were exposed on the offensive line. After those two short drives which ended in scores (thank you, defense, for providing the ball with a short field), we were essentially done for the night.

The blocking fell completely apart.

We haven't been able to run all year. And the running game is the core of our team's philosophy. We can no longer reliably pass block. Yet you just dismiss it in favor of highlighting handful of plays. How about the multiple 300 yard games we've had? How about the games we have won because Henne bailed out the running game (Cinci)? Or the games where he kept us close but some other facet of the team failed us (Jets, Steelers)? Or the 8 games where he had a higher QB rating than last year's average?

Yes he has more INTs than TDs. Yes he's made some bad throws. But let's not act like the rest of the team has been playing solid and it's been Henne peeing on your leg. Let's not act like a 3.7 YPC average doesn't hinder QB play as if Henne sits in some vacuum on the field unaffected by what happens (or doesn't happen) with the rest of the team. Let's not act like a depleted oline chocked full of injured guys and backups (if not backups to the backups) or a substandard run game (by anyone's definition) isn't a significant factor in Henne's apparent regression.

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

Wed Dec 15, 2010 2:22 pm

Rock Sexton

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Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

eleaf wrote:

We had an above average pass blocking oline because Henne was calling for loads and loads of max protection. It wasn't just the oline that blocked; it was everyone. The TEs stayed in, as did any RBs. He has been calling for fewer and fewer max protections of late, likely because he was receiving criticism for not taking enough calculated risks (throwing deep in the passing game). Calling fewer max protections in the last few games has shown the vulnerabilities of the line. They are a weak area of the team (again) in both the run game by not consistently creating running lanes, and the pass game by allowing LOTS of sacks. Some of that is indecision on Henne's part, but much of it is guys running freely at the QB because someone missed their block. Against the Jets it happened on both the right side, when Pace plowed Henne and caused a fumble, as well as a ILBs up the middle unchallenged. Our oline is not NEARLY as good as any of us might think. It seems in a transition phase. We're having to start over because we released 3 guys from our VERY EXPENSIVE oline; Grove, Smiley and Thomas. When they were on the field, they were fantastic. But none of them could stay on the field. The other 31 teams agree because those guys are not playing much football on Sundays (Smiley was traded, and has also has only played in 5 games this season. Donald is now on the Lions, but has not played. Grove watches the NFL from his couch like the rest of us). Our oline is in serious trouble right now. We're depleted personnel-wise, and those remaining have been playing hurt. We can't hold anyone back for very long. The deficiencies along the oline start to reveal themselves. That's why we scored 10 in the first quarter and that's it; we were exposed on the offensive line. After those two short drives which ended in scores (thank you, defense, for providing the ball with a short field), we were essentially done for the night.

The blocking fell completely apart.

LOL .... You're judging the pass blocking AFTER all those injuries? Because that's when it fell apart, not before. Before the Titans game we were fine. Had Henne not been calling for "max protect" on nearly every darned play earlier in the year we might not have squandered as many scoring chances and drives. He did that on his own, nobody told him to. I can't believe that at this stage in his career he was so hamstrung by it.

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We haven't been able to run all year. And the running game is the core of our team's philosophy. We can no longer reliably pass block. Yet you just dismiss it in favor of highlighting handful of plays. How about the multiple 300 yard games we've had? How about the games we have won because Henne bailed out the running game (Cinci)? Or the games where he kept us close but some other facet of the team failed us (Jets, Steelers)? Or the 8 games where he had a higher QB rating than last year's average?

I'm not dismissing anything. You mandated that in order to be a successful passing attack you had to have a good running attack and the stats don't back that up. So then you switched it up to "Well in order to make the playoffs" ...... The running game no doubt "helps" the passing game, but it's not solely responsible for a QB taking a crap in his 2nd season. He has three separate 300 yard passing games, one of which came in a blowout loss to the Patriots at a time when their secondary/defense isn't what is it now that's for sure ..... and the Jets game he still threw a bone headed pick to officially seal the loss. The Oakland game they picked on a rookie with Asamougha hobbled by injuries, he still threw a pick for the 9th straight game.

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Yes he has more INTs than TDs. Yes he's made some bad throws. But let's not act like the rest of the team has been playing solid and it's been Henne peeing on your leg. Let's not act like a 3.7 YPC average doesn't hinder QB play as if Henne sits in some vacuum on the field unaffected by what happens (or doesn't happen) with the rest of the team. Let's not act like a depleted oline chocked full of injured guys and backups (if not backups to the backups) or a substandard run game (by anyone's definition) isn't a significant factor in Henne's apparent regression.

I'm not saying the rest of the team has been playing like Gods. The offense is clearly no longer able to run power football. He was playing poorly before the injuries, leaving plenty of plays on the field. His stats were somewhat inflated due to us abandoning the run the way we did. Yet, we had Marshall dictating coverages so it wasn't like we were some substandard passing team who's ailing rushing attack made it even worse. We've seen from the stats that one can have a good passing attack minus a top rushing attack. We must not make excuses for Henne.

If anything we've learned that minus a run game, Henne has become a liability with erratic ball placement and a guy who relies solely on his arm, not his ability to read or manipulate coverages.

_________________

Wed Dec 15, 2010 7:42 pm

jammer

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Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 5:10 pmPosts: 6513Location: Topsfield, MA

Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

The pass blocking has never been great. Its held Henne upright when they played injury depleted defenses and when opponents opted not to blitz and make Henne beat the coverage. Its a mistake to think they have done a good job. The run blocking is even more concerning.

Henne has had some bad ball placement at times but he has also had some great ball placement. Anyone who says he has not made some great throws this year has not watched carefully.

Its pretty easy to be a Henne apologist because its something that does not come by choice. It comes with countering the ridiculous notion that everything he does is negative and that Miami would somehow be so much more successful without him this year. Makes you sound like an apologist when you are really just pointing out both sides of the story.

Here is an idea for those who said Pennington would have done so much better. The two games prior to the WC in 2008 Pennington did nothing. The two and a half games Pennington played in 2009 he also did nothing. The WC confused the weak defenses Miami played in 08. Teams focused so hard on stopping it that Pennington was allowed to use a short passing game to keep the offense moving. Once they faced a quality opponent in Baltimore we saw Pennington become a huge liability when the WC was stopped. If I'm not mistaken, when Miami played better teams that year they lost each time the WC was shut down.

Miami has faced some of the best teams and defenses in the league this year. The running game has been shut down. Why does anyone think Pennington's weak arm would be winning games for Miami and making up for the lack of a ground game? Marshall would still be double and triple covered essentially taking him out of playmaking mode.

Wed Dec 15, 2010 8:24 pm

eleaf

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Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 1:49 amPosts: 4144Location: The Bluegrass

Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

Rock Sexton wrote:

eleaf wrote:

We had an above average pass blocking oline because Henne was calling for loads and loads of max protection. It wasn't just the oline that blocked; it was everyone. The TEs stayed in, as did any RBs. He has been calling for fewer and fewer max protections of late, likely because he was receiving criticism for not taking enough calculated risks (throwing deep in the passing game). Calling fewer max protections in the last few games has shown the vulnerabilities of the line. They are a weak area of the team (again) in both the run game by not consistently creating running lanes, and the pass game by allowing LOTS of sacks. Some of that is indecision on Henne's part, but much of it is guys running freely at the QB because someone missed their block. Against the Jets it happened on both the right side, when Pace plowed Henne and caused a fumble, as well as a ILBs up the middle unchallenged. Our oline is not NEARLY as good as any of us might think. It seems in a transition phase. We're having to start over because we released 3 guys from our VERY EXPENSIVE oline; Grove, Smiley and Thomas. When they were on the field, they were fantastic. But none of them could stay on the field. The other 31 teams agree because those guys are not playing much football on Sundays (Smiley was traded, and has also has only played in 5 games this season. Donald is now on the Lions, but has not played. Grove watches the NFL from his couch like the rest of us). Our oline is in serious trouble right now. We're depleted personnel-wise, and those remaining have been playing hurt. We can't hold anyone back for very long. The deficiencies along the oline start to reveal themselves. That's why we scored 10 in the first quarter and that's it; we were exposed on the offensive line. After those two short drives which ended in scores (thank you, defense, for providing the ball with a short field), we were essentially done for the night.

The blocking fell completely apart.

LOL .... You're judging the pass blocking AFTER all those injuries? Because that's when it fell apart, not before. Before the Titans game we were fine. Had Henne not been calling for "max protect" on nearly every darned play earlier in the year we might not have squandered as many scoring chances and drives. He did that on his own, nobody told him to. I can't believe that at this stage in his career he was so hamstrung by it.

Quote:

We haven't been able to run all year. And the running game is the core of our team's philosophy. We can no longer reliably pass block. Yet you just dismiss it in favor of highlighting handful of plays. How about the multiple 300 yard games we've had? How about the games we have won because Henne bailed out the running game (Cinci)? Or the games where he kept us close but some other facet of the team failed us (Jets, Steelers)? Or the 8 games where he had a higher QB rating than last year's average?

I'm not dismissing anything. You mandated that in order to be a successful passing attack you had to have a good running attack and the stats don't back that up. So then you switched it up to "Well in order to make the playoffs" ...... The running game no doubt "helps" the passing game, but it's not solely responsible for a QB taking a crap in his 2nd season. He has three separate 300 yard passing games, one of which came in a blowout loss to the Patriots at a time when their secondary/defense isn't what is it now that's for sure ..... and the Jets game he still threw a bone headed pick to officially seal the loss. The Oakland game they picked on a rookie with Asamougha hobbled by injuries, he still threw a pick for the 9th straight game.

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Yes he has more INTs than TDs. Yes he's made some bad throws. But let's not act like the rest of the team has been playing solid and it's been Henne peeing on your leg. Let's not act like a 3.7 YPC average doesn't hinder QB play as if Henne sits in some vacuum on the field unaffected by what happens (or doesn't happen) with the rest of the team. Let's not act like a depleted oline chocked full of injured guys and backups (if not backups to the backups) or a substandard run game (by anyone's definition) isn't a significant factor in Henne's apparent regression.

I'm not saying the rest of the team has been playing like Gods. The offense is clearly no longer able to run power football. He was playing poorly before the injuries, leaving plenty of plays on the field. His stats were somewhat inflated due to us abandoning the run the way we did. Yet, we had Marshall dictating coverages so it wasn't like we were some substandard passing team who's ailing rushing attack made it even worse. We've seen from the stats that one can have a good passing attack minus a top rushing attack. We must not make excuses for Henne.

If anything we've learned that minus a run game, Henne has become a liability with erratic ball placement and a guy who relies solely on his arm, not his ability to read or manipulate coverages.

Um, because that's what Henne has to work with right now? Just a guess. And you note that Henne has been regressing, and I agree, but you fail to account for the fact that he has been regressing as his oline has been regressing. Or that he hasn't had a chance to improve because teams figured out early that we can't run and are concentrating on the passing game because they know he has the skills to make things happen with Marshall and Bess (or were those just abberations that I hallucinated from earlier in the season).

What I did say, and what you failed to recognize, is that the pass blocking earlier in the season, even with healthy guys, was masked by Henne's overuse of max protection. I never said you HAD to have a successful running attack in order to have a good passing attack. Denver shows us that's possible (though their 3-10 record doesn't make me want a great passing game sans a running game). But, and here's where you get lost so read closely, IF YOU ARE A BALL CONTROL, RUN ORIENTED TEAM, EVERYTHING ON OFFENSE IS CONTINGENT ON HAVING A GOOD RUNNING GAME. We are a ball control, run oriented team that can't run the ball. As a result, everything else suffers. We have crucial breakdowns on offense, particularly in the red zone, because we cannot run the ball. It simply isn't a threat, so teams play the pass.

You seem to want a team that has a high flying passing attack and the rest can fly a kite, and you seem to think that could be a winning combination. "If only Henne could pass the ball better we'd be rid of our problems" is your thought process. Teams saw that we could pass the ball and now they ignore everything else to Henne's detriment.

You simply want to throw the blame on Henne and call it a day. It doesn't work that way. All that Henne's problems show me is that he isn't ready to take an otherwise unproductive offense on to his shoulders and carry the weight. That shouldn't be a surprise, and it appears to me that worse than any problems Henne is having is your expectations of him.

_________________A good RB is nice, a good QB even better, but it's best to be able to stop someone first.

Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:58 am

Rock Sexton

Phinfever Legend

Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:48 pmPosts: 5886

Re: I am officially a Henne supporter

eleaf wrote:

Um, because that's what Henne has to work with right now? Just a guess. And you note that Henne has been regressing, and I agree, but you fail to account for the fact that he has been regressing as his oline has been regressing. Or that he hasn't had a chance to improve because teams figured out early that we can't run and are concentrating on the passing game because they know he has the skills to make things happen with Marshall and Bess (or were those just abberations that I hallucinated from earlier in the season).

There you go again. Completely forgetting what we've seen all season, but instead focusing on the last two losses (even thought wanted to highlight the Oakland win for the good - go figure). Henne regressed before the O-line had it's injuries. He's simply gotten even worse with the injuries vs. better defense. You're whole argument is aimed at two losses when his regression and erratic play has been all year.

Quote:

What I did say, and what you failed to recognize, is that the pass blocking earlier in the season, even with healthy guys, was masked by Henne's overuse of max protection. I never said you HAD to have a successful running attack in order to have a good passing attack. Denver shows us that's possible (though their 3-10 record doesn't make me want a great passing game sans a running game). But, and here's where you get lost so read closely, IF YOU ARE A BALL CONTROL, RUN ORIENTED TEAM, EVERYTHING ON OFFENSE IS CONTINGENT ON HAVING A GOOD RUNNING GAME. We are a ball control, run oriented team that can't run the ball. As a result, everything else suffers. We have crucial breakdowns on offense, particularly in the red zone, because we cannot run the ball. It simply isn't a threat, so teams play the pass.

In your opinion it was masked. Again we're not talking about successful records or playoff appearances. We're talking about Henne's performance. A QB can perform well, but have other areas of his team let him down .... whether it be special teams, defense, etc. etc. Yet you keep clamoring that because Henne's got no running game and focusing on the injuries at O-line towards the end here that that's the culprit. It's simply not. Does it afford you more opportunities if you have top 10 rushing attack? Without question.

There are still opportunities out there on the field and Henne hasn't been hitting them with any bit of consistency whatsoever. Again the overthrows, the missed streaking TE .... already been discussing ad nauseam. What does a lack of running game have to do with him not executing that throw properly? I remember in the beginning of the year people were like "Patience! It was just one throw, he'll hit them later on in the year!" ....... and what are we doing now? Talking about him missing those throws.

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You seem to want a team that has a high flying passing attack and the rest can fly a kite, and you seem to think that could be a winning combination. "If only Henne could pass the ball better we'd be rid of our problems" is your thought process. Teams saw that we could pass the ball and now they ignore everything else to Henne's detriment.

No no no ...you're talking about "winning combination" ..... winning is definitely the desirable output. We're still a game above .500 and we have a defense play out of it's mind now. The only thing lacking is a powerful rushing attack. We still average over 100 yards a game, it's not quite anemic. It's funny how you insist he can't pass because the run game isn't killing it out there, yet you fail to recognize the symmetry of it all ..... if the run game is struggling and Henne can loosen the defense up thru the air, suddenly the run game has more opportunity

Quote:

You simply want to throw the blame on Henne and call it a day. It doesn't work that way. All that Henne's problems show me is that he isn't ready to take an otherwise unproductive offense on to his shoulders and carry the weight. That shouldn't be a surprise, and it appears to me that worse than any problems Henne is having is your expectations of him.

I'm not throwing all blame on Henne. Again, have full attested to the run game woes and injuries to the O-line at this particular juncture, but I'm looking at the season in full. You simply want to pile on all the blame onto everybody else. When he's sitting pretty in the pocket overthrowing, underthrowing, and forcing passes into coverage it isn't anybody else's fault but his and that's what I've seen out of him all year. Especially earlier in the year with Brandon Marshall drawing double and triple teams, guys were open. He "isn't ready" is darn right. Ain't no question about that. His play this year warrants finding immediate competition for the starting job next year.

As for Sparano ..... he goes out and gets one of the games best WR's because expectations shouldn't be high of Henne? Clearly Sparano thought he was ready.