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This reminds me of the great chapter 'Marinade your ears' from 'Metaphors for the musician'.

Randy recommends an excellent way to train your ear. This is a method you can apply on any new tune, and really, should apply on any new tune. It's heavily based on singing, and one of the difficult part is actually singing the 3rd. This is not easy at all. Once you can do it, you'll be more comfortable playing 3rds and 7ths.

If you're not familiar with the method, I'm happy to try and describe.

Also, ATTYA is not the easiest tune out there. It's often considered an advanced, or difficult tune. The frequent modulation make it difficult. It's a good base for a lot of exercises, but maybe not the easiest tune to start and solo on. There are other simpler tunes, like Just Friends, Here's that Rainy Day, Getting Sentimental, All of Me, etc...

another good thing to do, whatever tune you're working on, is to break into small chunks. Pick the 1st 4 bars of ATTYA, then study this slowly. Until it feels good. Then do the next 4 bars.Then put them together. It's a lot for the brain to practice on a lot of chords / changes at once. But if you break it apart, it becomes much simpler. It's a good way to practice just about anything for that matter.

TLT, do you see (hear) what happens with that 3rd exercise? Without even trying to solo, you CANNOT make it not sound good. So you see why this is always central to a solo to always be aware of the third.

Now in real playing, the third need not occur at any particular beat. But it does get used quite often. This is VERY HONEST playing But try to be conscious (at least during this ear training period) of how to integrate the 3rd into the melody. Most melodies are heavy on 3rds.

I know this sounds almost mathematical and someone will say that this is too structured. But it is a fact. And it is true in Classical music or any other music. Our ear is drawn to this structure.

When playing around with the third as central to the structure, try arpeggiating TO THE THIRD, and STEPPING TO THE THIRD (half step or step). Just hear this in your head and know how to get there.

Again I emphasize that I was taught these rules as I teach you. BUT once you know the rules, later on you will know how to break them. This is just ear training. By no means does this dictate what you should play later on. Although, I guarantee that any good solo will have a bunch of thirds in it.

Dave is right that approach notes + 3rds is very common in bebop.

Thanks for your comments, jazzwee.

Just listened to the recording again, and - yes!

So I suppose the next step is to do this, but not slavishly so, and integrate in other chord notes and rhythms? Still just sitck to rests, crotchets and minims, no quavers apart from the pickup one. Certainly no runs of quavers.

Any other ideas, let me know.

I am familiar with the idea of learning the rule first, then learning how and when to break it. So, I don't get too hung up on rules, but for now rules are useful to limit my choices to a manageable level.

If you're not familiar with the method, I'm happy to try and describe.

Go on then. I'm all ears.

Well first off, I want to say I think the book is really packed with great stuff. Everyone seems to have his / her favorite chapter. Many are great. The harmonic analysis chapter is great, the blues and pentatonic chapters are great also. My favorite is probably the ear training chapter. It is truly packed. I think he could have gone on and on on that topic, but it's actually a short chapter.

In that chapter, Randy teaches you an approach to learning tunes. It's based on singing. Sing sing sing. 1) Sing in pitch. You don't have to be a great singer, you don't need to have a good range, you're just singing for you. But sing in pitch.2) Sing the melody3) Sing the root of the chords4) Sing the inner lines, tenor and alto. By the time your here, you have learned all the parts so you can sing melody + backup. This is a pretty cool skill to learn, and you are going to learn how to sing and recognize root, 3rds and 7ths with this. 5) Sing arpeggios6) Sing Modes. You know, basically the scales. 7) Sing a sample bass line. This will teach you a lot about music theory8) Compose a solo and sing it (that's my personal favorite). This alone will remove many fears you may have about tackling improvisation on a tune.9) Sing 3rd10) Sing 7ths 9 & 10 are similar to 4, but more difficult. You are no longer singing a part, but really just the 3rd or 7th. It jumps, so this is painful.

He uses "Everything I Love" as an example. Pick a tune and try it.I mean if you want to...

Randy makes a point about NOT singing while you play. He does not believe in it. I sing while I play. Almost always. It doesn't bother me, I enjoy it. A LOT of people sing while they play.To me, it's part of the fun. See Oscar Peterson or Lionel Hampton do it, tell me they're not having fun.

Anyway, while Randy advises against singing while playing, he is obviously pro singing as a mean to train the ear. I think that's key.

Randy's book is more practical. I actually used his terminology when I refer to 2+3 or 3+2 two handed chords. I didn't learn it from his book but when I saw it, I realized that I didn't understand what was important. The book is a more practical beginning (to intermediate) jazz book. I recommend it before getting into Levine.

At school I sang alto, however, I've not done any kind of singing for a long while. It is certainly good ear training. Like most things, you use it or you lose it. So I used to be able to pick up the alto part of a Christmas carol very easily - now it takes me about 5 verses. But if i try to sing, I can tell it's not good, and ultimately, my ear wins because I don't like doing things that aren't 'good'. My vocal range is pretty limited now.

Interesting you should say that about Metaphors. I'm toying with buying a book soon - was going to get Levine. The teacher I went to showed it to me and it looked good. Also, I'm getting on well with the Levine theory book. It's difficult to make a choice when you can't browse through it.

No great shakes in the improvising at the end - and, no, I'm not claiming that's 'honest'! The reason I looked at this one now is because it has slash chords in it like F/G which I now realise (having been gemming up on this) is a Fsus4.

I think I'm even beginning to get what the 'sus' is for. Mebbe.

Also, I've just started looking at this. It's Song for my Father (Silver arr Richards) also from Exploring Jazz Piano I. I've never played a bossa nova before and I wanted to check in here before I practice it loads the wrong way!

Specifically, where there is a run of quavers I wasn't sure whether to do legato or detached. In my recording, everything is quite distinctly tongued, so I went for detached. The semiquavers of course are legato.

Over the page, Richards has Horace Silver's solo, so I'll look at that next.

Sgt Pepper? Gsus for me spells a hard day's night. And you know how hard I've been working.

Quote:

One way to play a sus on AL. You play C-7, then F7susThen resolve it so F7 and continue as usual.

You in Bb? I'm in G. I'm taking it that's an Amin7 I start with? As in ii7-V.

Quote:

I liked you Song For my Father. Do you have the original? What a gorgeous tune.

It's fantastic! I've been working on the solo. It's a scheme I've worked out: look in the book, see what's in it. Download everything off amazon (costs very little), stick it on my mp3 and listen to it for a week. Then play.

Lost Valley isn't available from amazon, unfortunately. I'd like to hear it. It's by Richards, for his group, Spirit Level. Their CDs are apparently too obscure to make it to amazon.

Knotty - I'll take that as a request for Sgt Pepper. Ah, now I understand! In the album it runs into 'I'll get by...' But I'd always seen them as separate songs. Doesn't matter, it can be Sgt Pepper for now.

Many thanks for your kind words, Knotty, Dave and jazzwee. Lost valley does have a bit more of a 'grown up feel' than many things I have tried. Rhythmically, when it suddenly lauches into 6/8, I had to work at that bit.

Talking of rhythmic challenges, Song for my Father's got a few in the 3rd chorus of the solo...

I love Song for My Father TLT. It's easy to solo over (at least for me). Here, because it is Latin, you play the eighth notes straight. It's not swung. It's a beautiful tune and of course Horace Silver's version is the Gold Standard on this.

Rhythmically, I always had a problem retaining the form when playing the head on this one. All those triplets used to confuse me. Then my teacher said, "ignore the triplets" and suddenly the melody was simplified.

I'm amazed you picked this up immediately. It's good you played it slowly.

TLT, it's not that I have anything negative about a book like Tim Richards. Obviously it has nice arrangements of tunes. But you and I know that Jazz is about improvising. So, I personally avoid playing written jazz music. I might copy it stylistically as an exercise but I could do that with any record.

So to me the only book necessary (that shows actual music and not theory lessons), is a Fake Book. The rest, I spend time just listening.

As an example, Green Dolphin Street is a basic standard that beginning jazz students study. It was one of the first tunes I learned. But it's not that easy to solo on.

If I flopped the lead sheet in front of you, would you be able to play based on what you learned from Tim Richards' book? Could you play it two handed and then shift to comping one handed? Could you comp it with just two handed chords if someone is singing the vocals? Could you solo on it?

I haven't seen this book, mind you so maybe it's more complete than I might think. So you can always prove me wrong here.

But hopefully, you can see the difference in what you learn from a teacher. I'm hoping that you will learn to bring this skills out from inside you.

BTW - I saw the Lost Valley tune on Itunes by Tim Richards right after I posted. So I figured it was an original of his.

If I flopped the lead sheet in front of you, would you be able to play based on what you learned from Tim Richards' book? Could you play it two handed and then shift to comping one handed? Could you comp it with just two handed chords if someone is singing the vocals? Could you solo on it?

Good point. I've been mulling this one over today - where I want to take jazz and what I want to get out of it. I think the chances of me gigging with a fakebook are about nil.

Certainly I do much better with an arrangement, but I suppose that's to be expected given my previous training. And I don't think it's a bad thing necessarily to read from sheet music - I'm more concerned with the musical output, but I can see it makes me less versatile as a musician.

But it's not in the gigging TLT. What are my own chances of gigging at some restaurant?

I never said you should stop playing written arrangements. You are correct that it gives you musical output now.

I'm just telling you though that the feeling of being able to play anything at any time without anything to look at is such a rush. You're creating your own music then. At some point, who even needs a fakebook?

And I've watched you progress so I know you're capable of this.

It's probably the reliance on written music that holds you back. It's fine to do both. One being a technical training. If you want to make significant progress, I would spend 80% of the time on improvising.

I think playing from sheet is an important part of ear training. If you can read music, then I think it's totally fine to pick up an arrangement and play it. Pick up a Garland arrangement, and I am sure you will absorb the language much faster. Same for bebop, pick up the Omnibook and you will absorb Parker blues much faster.

I think you need a balance of this, strict technique, transcriptions and improvisation.

If you only play from sheet, that's all you'll know how to do. Certainly, there is more to music than playing someone else's.

When I was just starting out, and I was given these rules on how to improvise (just like I'm telling you), I felt like I was creating no product. Everything sounded bad. But by repetitively doing the routine of 3rds, etc., the ears pick it up. Then something will just change. But like anything else, it doesn't happen fast. In piano, it comes in waves as you know. So you just keep plugging along and training for it and it just comes.

When I say improvising, there's many parts. Changing voicings, changing rhythms. It's not just notes. But you just try out something different every day.

I don't know if improvising is something that can only be done by some people or not. When I started I was able to improvise. Badly maybe but I was able to create melodies. Is this a requirement? I don't know.

Maybe we can ask Knotty and Riddler who both can seem to come up with melodies.

Can you invent a melody? (forgetting the chord progression for a moment).

It would be sad if it cannot be learned, especially by otherwise musical people. I'm of the feeling that it can be learned. People who do licks do it quite mechanically actually. All I do here is explain it more intellectually so it can be duplicated in any key.