Nearly There...

Just a few details left to go. I've got enough of it together for a shakedown ride, although I may regret not having the FD hooked up if I get into any hilly stuff. Only marginally successful ghetto bleed on the brakes so far, as I don't have the kit for the Stroker series. After 50 degrees and lots of rain yesterday, and now back to upper 20s, with any luck it will stay cold and freeze up so I don't have to get it plastered with mud. Not quite ready for that yet. Not before I get the fenders anyway.

Coming soon to a trail near me!

Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
- John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

Beautius! Classic coloring! Came together really nicely and you can just see the effort that went into that whole entire build. Congrats and shoot out a ride report if you get out! I hope it's never that clean again.

In the pictures, it looks very balanced in its proportions and I know you are a big guy, so making it look 'smaller' than it really is, is a BIG achievement. If I were to stand by it in real time....this is a very big bike, so well done. It simply looks 'Right'.

1st Ride - What an F'n DISASTER!

Hey;

The bike rides great, what little I was able to ride it. I was a little surprised that the self steer that was not evident at all even on pavement became noticeable on the trail at speed. Still, it is nothing that cannot be dealt with, and I suppose is somewhat endemic of the large tires. All was well with the world!

I've spent 7 blissful years riding bikes WITHOUT flimsy replaceable derailleur hangers. My Heckler, RIP9, and Humvee have solid mount DOs, the first two of the three replaceable, and I've grown to love them. In that time, I've only had ONE problem with a derailleur; I somehow rode over and flipped a 6" piece of stick into the jockey wheels and sheared the mount bolt clean off on my RIP9 on it's 4th ride. I got a junk derailleur from the LBS, scarfed the pivot bolt for a repair, and ride that same derailleur today. That one headache has been more than made up for by the utter LACK of constant shifting problems I've had on bikes with replaceable hangers that bend every time you look at them funny.

One of the things I was very ambivalent about was using these Paragon low mount DOs, ONLY for the fact that they use alloy RD hangers. It took exactly ONE RIDE to make me HATE that decision. They are beautiful DOs, but... He!!, it was my fault. I've gotten spoiled by the durability of having a solid mount. It wasn't 2 miles into this maiden voyage when a branch went into the chain and SNAP. Just like glass. Didn't even have time to stop. POS! I still don't believe what happened next.

So, I did what any hard-nosed survivalist MTBer would do. I picked a gear, shortened the (brand new!) chain, and rode single speed. I don't have the FD hooked up yet due to a lack of cable housing. I reasoned I didn't want to go too big for the climbs, but I was sort of dissing my gear choice, as Granny 3 was a little short for cruising the flats. Never in a million years would it have occurred to me that what was about to happen would happen. It just seems so improbable.

Every time I've done one of these bodges for friends that have trashed their derailleurs, they usually end up either skipping horribly under power due to lack of chain wrap, or shifting their way down the cassette because there is nothing to keep gravity from letting the chain do just that. I actually had to take the wheel out a bit to get the chain on, and when it was all installed, I had less than 1" of chain deflection, likely closer to .5" It looked like a great setup, and worked just fine for about a mile along the river bottom.

Eventually you have to climb, and as I laid in the first few power strokes and hit the meat of the climb, the chain incongruously shifted from 3rd to 2nd. Something had to give, and it sure a F did.....

Never in a million years would I have guessed that this was probable, or "even possible." I still don't believe it. Guess that's what I get for building something so pretty.....................

Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
- John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

Did you spring for the 7075 hanger? That's what I've used twice a they are pretty beefy for a replaceable hanger. I was first shocked the drop bent, but then I saw your hub! I'd place blame at whatever the actual F* happened inside it. The hub was a Salsa right? The nicer one or the cheaper one?

Thanks Eric, My Friend. As Shoo said on the Fatbike forum, "a buzzkill." Indeed. Yes, the DO can be straightened, and I believe that is the extent of the frame damage. The skewer can be straightened. The axle can be replaced. Don't know about the freehub or anything else yet. I was too stunned to really get into it.

Am I wrong in thinking that it is HIGHLY unlikely for a chain to climb like that when it is essentially "too tight to do so?" Obviously something bounced it enough that it caught a ramp or something. There had been NO rattling of the chain trying to climb prior to that whatsoever. Just like there was only one cog there.

G; Yes, it was the 7075 hanger. I thought it was really flimsy when I put it on the other day. It snapped like glass. How funny that I was going to make a spare out of steel... some day. I likely already would have if I had a 10mm x 1.0 tap! I don't know what hub it is. I believe I remember right that it is a Salsa, but I wouldn't have a clue beyond that. I was not even aware there were two models. I'll be curious to see if it is a steel or Al axle, though.

I don't think there was any problem with the hub itself that caused this. It is my belief that the chain simply climbed the cassette. I had it on 3 and it is sitting jammed onto 2 right now. No way to get it off by hand. It's that tight. Since the chain was then too short for the circumference of that gear pair, something had to give. Would I be wrong in now having the feeling that these DOs are a bit fragile, or is that unfair?

Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
- John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

TrailMaker #2 - The Kroozer

Originally Posted by TrailMaker

Hey;

Thanks Eric, My Friend. As Shoo said on the Fatbike forum, "a buzzkill." Indeed. Yes, the DO can be straightened, and I believe that is the extent of the frame damage. The skewer can be straightened. The axle can be replaced. Don't know about the freehub or anything else yet. I was too stunned to really get into it.

Am I wrong in thinking that it is HIGHLY unlikely for a chain to climb like that when it is essentially "too tight to do so?" Obviously something bounced it enough that it caught a ramp or something. There had been NO rattling of the chain trying to climb prior to that whatsoever. Just like there was only one cog there.

G; Yes, it was the 7075 hanger. I thought it was really flimsy when I put it on the other day. It snapped like glass. How funny that I was going to make a spare out of steel... some day. I likely already would have if I had a 10mm x 1.0 tap! I don't know what hub it is. I believe I remember right that it is a Salsa, but I wouldn't have a clue beyond that. I was not even aware there were two models. I'll be curious to see if it is a steel or Al axle, though.

I don't think there was any problem with the hub itself that caused this. It is my belief that the chain simply climbed the cassette. I had it on 3 and it is sitting jammed onto 2 right now. No way to get it off by hand. It's that tight. Since the chain was then too short for the circumference of that gear pair, something had to give. Would I be wrong in now having the feeling that these DOs are a bit fragile, or is that unfair?

Sorry to see that happen. I hate replaceable hangers, too.

The cogs are designed to shift, and they are close together. When you SS it the chainline needs to be perfectly straight for it to have any chance to work. Any bounce or flex can screw you.

My sympathies to you and your injured blue friend. I have been watching this bike come together the last few weeks, and am amazed by it. It is unfortunate that such a thing would happen, but you can take comfort in that the steel frame can be repaired and made stronger.

TrailMaker #2 - The Kroozer

I think Shiggy's on the mark, I wouldn't blame the dropouts. They've been tested well. Something had to give!

But for replaceable hangers, that one did what it was supposed to do, break under too much stress. Something else would've snapped had not the hanger (like the derailleur). Cheaper to replace the der! You can always swap the AL hanger for their steel one --
DR2061. It's seriously beefy and I doubt it can actually break.

Best of luck with the repair, it deserves to be back out there on the trail!

TM, My sympathies to you and your injured blue friend. I have been watching this bike come together the last few weeks, and am amazed by it. It is unfortunate that such a thing would happen, but you can take comfort in that the steel frame can be repaired and made stronger.

Weston ;

Thank you Sir. Very gracious of you. I too am amazed by it. I am not a stranger to creating varied things in many differing mediums that people think are in one way or another compelling, and yet this one has even me in awe. I sort of feel odd when I think about riding it in the woods. It is just sooo not a woodsy looking machine. It just SCREAMS, "look at me" like a buxom bobby-soxer cheerleader in a tight cashmere sweater. Still, it is what I wanted it to be, and more. I'm glad you and others have appreciated it along with me. Beyond the notoriety - which all artists enjoy to some extent - and your own internal satisfaction, knowing that others derive pleasure from what you create is very rewarding!

I'm glad you felt compelled to come out for Post #2!

Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
- John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

No real diss to the DO. They are really a work of art, and fit tremendously well with this theme, I think. Retro-technical looking. Now, if you hold one of these in your hand, and you are used to looking at things through the prism of being 240lbs, you can't think anything but that these might be just a little under sized. I think they could stand a mm or two more thickness, personally.

They certainly are not designed to take the kind of force they saw here. Neither was the aluminum axle that snapped off just as easily as the flimsy hanger did. When you consider the force it would take to snap a brand new chain in tension (many hundreds of pounds, no doubt), and consider that this did not happen, then it is no real surprise that other things gave. They had to. I would add that aluminum axle to a list of things that really need to be strengthened a bit. When you consider the pounding they must take, and look at how thin they are, it is really no surprise that this happened. It is likely time for the 12mm T/A size to take hold as the standard for everything.

I'm thinking the steel axle looks much better to me as a replacement... for the next time I tear my RD off and try single speeding!

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Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
- John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

Frame repaired. Dummy axle slips right in, no problem. Very minimal loss of paint. Happened to have some paint on the shelf that was a dead ringer. A Porsche color, no less. A couple of little dabs will do me. Now the old story.... waiting for parts!

Most people ply the Well Trodden Path. A few seek a different way, and leave a Trail behind.
- John Hajny, a.k.a. TrailMaker

With all this bad luck you can probably expect no problems at all when you rebuild it, the frame has probably ran out of bad luck by now.

Anyway 70-series breaks and 60 series alu, like 6061 bends. Ti would be a nice alternative, since it bends quite a lot until it snaps clean, But it flexes back. CP2 ti is quite weak, about on par with good alu, but much more durable, and if it bends you can probably bend it back. Its much more forgiving than 6-4 or even 3-2,5, those ones snaps/cracks. In an hour or so you could easily anglegrind and file out a new cp2 ti hanger.

Rule #9 // If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period.

As sweet as the windowed ones are, I have yet to build a frame with them. When I do low mounts, I opt for the expidetion ones. Yeah, they are heavier, but unless I was doing a disc specific road bike, I wouldnt use the windowed ones.