Snipped:
Goode’s interview reflects that in April or May of 2008 she was volunteering at the Florida Department of Children and Families (DCF) office located at 1300 SR 19, Tavares, FL. During this time DCF issued an advertisement regarding the acceptance of Section 8 housing applications. Shortly after, a woman with a Hispanic accent called DCF regarding the Section 8 housing add and also asked to register her granddaughter int the “Kid Care Program”. Goode believed that the woman on the phone stated her name was “Rodriguez”, however she could not be certain. Kid Care is a state funded program which provides medical insurance to children of low income families. The woman advised that her granddaughter’s name was Caylee Anthony.

About one week later, Goode was in her office at DCF when a young lady and a female child walked into her office. The woman identified herself as Casey Anthony and her daughter as Caylee Anthony. Anthony wanted to register Caylee for services in the Kid Care Program. The information was obtained and input into the system for further processing. Goode positively identified both Casey and Caylee as the ones who came into her office in April or May of 2008 from the pictures SA Rodriquez provided. She said it was them and added, they seemed to be in a hurry.

Goode further stated that in approximately the last week in June, she was at the Goodwill store located on SR 19 in Eustis when she again saw Caylee and Casey Anthony. At the time, Goode could not recall where she knew them from but was able to remember them from her office after the media reports of missing Caylee Anthony. Goode observed Casey and Caylee exit the Goodwill store get into what appeared to be an older white vehicle with a Hispanic driver (possibly large female). The vehicle had a blue and white tag similar to that of a NY tag. Caylee was wearing a white dress with a white bow tied in the front. Goode later saw the same vehicle and same people at the Save-a-Lot store located in the same shopping center in Eustis.

Later on August 7, 2008, SA Rodriguez provided this information to Corporals William Edwards and Yuri Melich of OCSO who said they were currently following up with DCF investigators too.

As a follow-up on August 11, 2008, SA Rodriguez did speak with Eustis Goodwill state manager- Kim Vasquez who said she was familiar with the Anthony case and that she had never seen either Casey or Caylee in her store at any time. Rodriguez also advised that the store does not have a surveillance system.

On Monday, August 11, 2008, SA Rodriguez was informed by Carey Roderick (OSCO) that information obtained from Supervisor Tom Hammett (DCF) by Sgt. John Allen (OSCO) reflects that a thorough and comprehensive search of DCF records failed to identify and past or present contact with Casey or Caylee Anthony.

If anyone with past experience at the office of Social Services will know that usually your first visit is to gather information needed to apply for the different State-provided programs.My question is; Did Ms. Goode actually input any information in the computer or did she just attempt to and discard it after finding out Casey didn’t have the proper documents such as birth certificates, social security cards, bank statements, etc, and told Casey to come back at a later date. She did say Casey seemed to be in hurry so I’m not convinced that the follow-up turned in by Sgt. Allen means in all certainty that Casey did not go to the DCF office.Also there was no mention whether there were surveillance cameras in the DCF office.Considering SA Rodriguez advised there were no surveillance cameras at the Goodwill store, why would Sgt. John Allen fail to mention this in his report? I’m sure there are several surveillance cameras in the DCF office.

theJBmission

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I could not find this person’s name on the witness list and no depo as of yet. The story does not match up with KC, Lee and Cindy’s statements as well as a few others that witnessed KC telling about the Jay Blanchard Park take down. If Ms. Goode really saw KC and Caylee at Goodwill near the end of June then all of the above would have lied. Taking it at face value these people didn’t lie, did they?

Hmm..I don’t know damag, why is it “everyone” is lying? Surveillance cameras are everywhere. Why doesn’t John Allen state that he checked the cameras like SA Rodriguez did at the Goodwill store? Goode did not give an exact date of late June did she? I’ll wait to hear from Zuben and compare the cell phone pings.
IIRC Zuben mentioned this awhile back too but this is the first time I’ve come across this doc and I feel it’s compelling.

She just said last week of June. My curiosity was how Caylee was seen if KC claimed she was kidnapped and had not see caylee at all. All of a sudden the girl See’s them together….does not make much sense. I still think the fornesics will show being placed off Surban several days after June 16th. It will be close.

PS. I did find Lori Cree on the States amended witness list. I found this odd because I would have thought she would be a defense witness.

D’ that’s true, but considering the general consensus says kc is a liar, I see no reason not to think this is possible. It certainly makes sense to me because kc really would have been better off financially if Caylee were alive. Housing, financial aid, college funding, medical insurance for Caylee and herself, etc. There are many State-programs that help unwed mothers. I’ve often wondered why she didn’t take advantage of her situation like many young women w/children do. I presumed it was because she didn’t want to give the name of Caylee’s father..anyway who knows.

Hi all. Only dare to take a couple minutes but when I looked into this I didn’t see any pings in that area but did see some blank times in the phone records where it could have taken place. I don’t recall right off when though. Of course, we haven’t seen April or May records and it doesn’t appear that LE looked at them either. Just because she isn’t in the system doesn’t mean she never went there. It never made any sense to me if she wanted out of the house, or even if she chose to stay there, why she wouldn’t have taken advantage of the resources available. I suspected that she did inquire into this option but wondered if she would be required to prove paternity so they could go after him for child support in order for her to receive any state services. I am aware of that happening in my state. Maybe Snoop knows if that is require in Florida. If so, and if she could not let Caylee’s paternity be known, that might be a reason for not pursuing financial help. It makes no sense, otherwise. She could likely even have school paid for if she chose to pursue that. The state would help her with school, housing, food, daycare and even extra cash.

One thing I do not understand is the DCF worker said when KC and Caylee came into DCF that KC applied for services and the information was input into the system, yet when system was searched no information could be found. Did I miss something?

diane,
I caught this sentence:
The information was obtained and input into the system for further processing. Maybe DCF doesn’t keep records on people who are just inquiring. As I mentioned, KC should have had birth certificates and SS cards…she may not have been prepared?

Diane, I went back and read the docs again. It did say the information was put into the system for further processing. So either Ms Goode is mistaken or The MIB wiped the computer system clean of information having to do with KC & Caylee. I know I’m gonna get in trouble for the MIB crack………historically eye witness testimony is the hardest to deal with. There have been many reports of people seeing Caylee. They saw something……

It just does not make sense because the information I obtained from the doc I was under the impression that she must have provided some information for the DCF worker to say she input information into the system even if it was just name,phone number,etc. to use later for processing. Like I said just does not make sense IMO.

diane,
It makes sense to me. If Casey is a walk-in without an appt, no documents, no action will be taken. If Casey was at this office in April or May of 2008, I doubt there would be any record since all she was doing was inquiring about Section 8.
Section 8 housing is a very much in demand commodity in the world of poor people. You can not walk in off of the street and expect to get on the list. To get on this list, some have to wait years..it’s a task. With that said…I doubt that a person who walks into DCF asking questions about Section 8;
responding from an ad, without documents to even prove her qualification for housing would be entered into any data base. Had Ms. Goode said she gave her an appt. for further review then I’d agree with you. But to expect someone’s name to be in a database entered in late Apr 08′ or early May 08′ would still be on record in Aug 08′ is a stretch. Perhaps someone local to Florida with experience with DCF would know if you walked into their office one day, would it still be on record 3 months later??
The State isn’t that interested to put it kindly. LOL
And why would this person lie? This is in Aug 08. Caylee was still considered missing, not dead. So the only intention of Ms. Goode is to find a LIVE child and give information she felt was valid.
It really irks me that EVERYONE who left a tip is a liar. Why can’t we just say Ms. Goode was mistaken? But I think it’s possible it was her. The timing is right. A divorce was in the making…Cindy may have been planning on selling the house and Casey and Caylee would need a place to live. So it’s plausible to me that in Apr or May 08 she could have been Section 8 shopping. JMO

Perhaps DFS does not administer the Florida KidCare records. According to the state of Florida’s website, KidCare can be applied for online or via phone call. It is separate from Medicaid, which one would apply for at the DFS office (or online). I do not know that these online or phone applications were available in 2008. Like JB, I don’t believe everyone who reported a Caylee sighting is a liar or an attention seeker. I know that here in Illinois, one can go into the DHS office (same as DFS in FL) and get info about the KidCare insurance program, but you do not apply for it through DHS. You apply online or you fill out an application and mail it in to kidcare. Again, not sure if the procedure was the same 3 years ago or not.

Same ol same ol, I work with database all the time. If you don’t try in 3 or 4 different ways, you won’t find what you are looking for. All it takes is one misspelling. How hard did they try to find the info in the database? Sometimes people put too much information in the search engine and it throws it off. What is one persons idea of a thorough and comprehensive search? I deal with it all the time, people say they tried it 4 different ways, but I try it and get it the first time. MOO

Jb..I remember this when Zuben and I were reading through tips
There was a promotion in May /08. Up near Tallahasee Fl they had a
contest for some highs chool students to come up with a .30 second
video to promote Kidcare.. Upon choosing a winner..the video was loaded
to several social media sites..including YouTube , Myspace,and Facebook.
So the chances of KC seeing it there are likely.
Kidscare..which has went by more than 1 name..and other kids programs fill
up quickly. When they are full they close it out. You would then be on a wait
list. If you register.. your information will be retained in their network for 3 months.
If your information is not completed..they will contact you..and you can reapply.

As far as DFS..If Casey denied knowing the father..or was not sure..etc. She
could still recieve benefits. She could even say I only knew his first name..etc
BUT..While she was living at home..they would only assist her based on all income
in the household. Therefore, although I do not know the household income, I would
find it highly unlikely she would have qualified while living at home.

The Agency for Health Care Administration, as the lead state agency for federal Medicaid and CHIP funds, contracts with the Healthy Kids Corporation to perform major administrative functions for the Florida KidCare program. These functions include processing applications, screening for Medicaid eligibility, determining eligibility for the CHIP components of Florida KidCare, and billing and collecting premiums.

Florida KidCare is the state children’s health insurance program for uninsured children under age nineteen. It includes four different programs:
MediKids, Healthy Kids, Children’s Medical Services and Medicaid. When an application is submitted, Florida KidCare determines which program a child is eligible for based on age and family income.

Snoop,
Thank you. I figured you may know more about DCF and like you I wondered if DCF would ask questions about her family and where she currently lived which I don’t think should matter. In any case, I wish this lead was looked at closer. When the woman said she saw Casey with a large Hispanic woman I thought about a picture I saw. Remember the group of pictures labeled:
Casey Anthony Facebook, Photobucket, Myspace Photos
Dates on photos are dates that they were uploaded to Casey’s accounts.
Visit http://www.basementdwellers.proboards101.com

In that group of pictures taken at the beach, I remember a picture of a large dark haired woman sitting on a towel. There were a few other pictures of her as well… Did we ever identify her? I’ll see if I can find it. brb.

Sorry did not mean to imply that the DCF worker was lying just that it did not make sense to me, of course lots of stuff in the case does not make sense. Well will not be as long now what 85 days till some our questions may be answered. I think there is still a lot of information to be brought out. Hearings in March will be interesting.

Totally not the topic here, sorry…..
Somthing was just irking me so I thought I’d share,
Anyone remember Anne Pham in the “controlled phone call” to LB and again to LBs lawyer,
trying to say Melich, she’s like Melich,,..Menich or whatever his name is.
He was sitting right there, she lnew exactly how to pronounce his name.
It took me back to Mya D trying to pronounce chloroform..
that made me absolutely nauseous!!
I also just realized that Anne also has a reason to lie on LB. JEALOUSY
Ann also tried to insert herself into the Anthony family.
She said she had written or emailed Cindys mom and
” Wasn’t cool enough to get a response back ”
Wasn’t Cool Enough??
Sounds quite childish, and enough to make me think she could resent LB for her successfulness of being tangled up in this madness.
I wonder who else did she try to reach out to??

Why do Casey Haters hate Lee?
Lee has been honest, he has painted a pretty ugly picture of Casey,
he never tried to make her look like mother or sister of the year.
Does the blood that flows through his veins make him guilty?
So in my eyes if you hate the family of Casey you hate Caylee also.
In the least totally disrespecting the memory of Caylee.

Hi diane,
Yes I understand. I think the word “input” implied Goode keyed in KC’s information so you would expect to see her name but as Omar suggested databases are not always perfect. It depends on what or how it was entered.
Anyway, I found this lead #438 interesting enough to post. Obviously it will not play a part at trial.. oh well. lol

hi IndyGal,
I’ve noticed this too…why Lee? Lee really hasn’t done anything but tell the truth. Poor Lee was the focus of a set-up by LE using Tony Lazarro to get information from him. He provided nothing! All anyone has to do is watch the video to realize he’s not guilty of anything. Poor guy. I agree.
How can so many hate George, Cindy and Lee when they were loved so much by Caylee. It is disrespectful, IMO And doesn’t have any bearing on the case. Casey is the one on trial, right?

The reason Lee is not thought of highly is because he lied a few times in his statements to LE. He also withheld important information. He was the first one to hear the Breaking News Bombshell of the Blanchard Park kidnapping. In the beginning he tried to be helpful and would contact the detectives with information he came up with. He told his parents about the story change but never called LE. I still suspect him of tampering with the laptop but would not know how to prove it…..after all he was the computer whiz in the family. MO
I think Lee did the right thing when he stopped interfering and got immunity when he found out what possible charges could be brought against him unlike his parents who went for the brass ring.

Indygal
The horses are trampaling the cart put infront of them…….Where was the love and caring you refer to in protecting Caylee. Where is the love and caring after the fact in trying to find out what happened. Caylee is being disrespected by her family who has not done anything to find the truth. The Anthony’s perpetuated this circus from the begining going on TV daily and fighting with people. No hype….the media would have never spent the money to show the public 1000’s of documents.

Cindy & George were Caylees “grandparents” who provided a home for her, loved her very much and they protected her just fine on their watch.
Lee was Caylees uncle who did not even live in the same house.
Casey was Caylees “mother” !
Caylee was not anyones responsibility except Caseys!
Are you implying that the As should have seen this coming?
That Cindy should have quit her job and not leave Caylee alone with her own mother?

you ask

” Where is the love and caring after the fact in trying to find out what happened?”

Cindy was not exactly calm in her 911 call, she is Frantic!!
C & G did everything in their power to find Caylee.
A “live” Caylee.
They loved her without a doubt and to argue that fact would be a waste of time.

you say

“Caylee is being disrespected by her family who has not done anything to find the truth.”

So do you think the tipline and the private investigators was just for show?
Only a small handful of people know the truth, if not just one.
You expect the As to just swallow the prosecutions “Theory”?
That’d be a lot for any parent to digest.
and if the states theory was truely what happened to Caylee,
you still could not blame the Anthonys, denial is not a state of mind one chooses.

then you say,

“The Anthony’s perpetuated this circus from the begining going on TV daily and fighting with people. ”

Seriously??
They were stalked by the media,
No Comment would have been worse then anything they did say.
The media is a good source to help bring the missing home.

Oh and I too got a personal invite from the Anthonys to come harass them in their yard,
they said to bring the biggest sign I could find that said,
Burn in Hell Baby Killers!

D..I think you’re crossing the line here. Your comments use to hold some
interest. As of the last couple weeks..You have went from LB, Baez, Lee, her
family..with less than tasteful commenting. You have been treated with respect
here..as well as others that want to debate. But, your comments tonight
sicken me! I thought I was in the wrong blog. I can only speak for myself..
But as far as I am concerned..I think you have shown not only disrespect to
Caylee, and the family..you have shown disrespect for what this site stands for.
SHAME ON YOU!

Indygal..I forgot to thank you! Your response as Omar said ..was Brilliant! I was
so disappointed to get home and sit down and read the comment D left. There are
a lot of things I don’t know..Nor does anyone else here..except what what has been
speculated. But it is very obvious that Caylee was LOVED.
It just amazes me to no end the amount of self righteous.. pedestal sitters..
prejudicial people this case has drawn out. KARMA has unlimited time!

Thumbs up, Indygal! How can anyone run rampant and think they know how they would handle the same circumstances Cindy George and Lee found confronting them.
I hope I never have to find out how dreadfully painful it all was and still is. Casey was
a child just like Caylee. No way in the world could they see such a horror coming no matter what they might have had to deal with from Casey. Unbelievable that people find it flattering to themselves to make some of the judgmental statements found here and there about the Anthonys. Caylee would not want to hear her grandparents talked about in such negativity no matter what. Should we have such disrespect for this precious child, Caylee. ooo

The shame is in emotional commenting not backed up by facts. The facts are that the Anthony’s lied in interviews and depositions. If any or all want to put them on a pedestal that’s fine. Currently the response is no better than the KC haters. I came here because of equality and a transfer of factual information. If you are sickened then seek medical help or an open mind. Judging me and be accusatory does nothing for me. You lashing out at me since I first started posting equates to comments one would read on page 19 of the Globe, not necessary.

D, I was going to just let this pass, since some others have already commented but, even though I’ve said it before I must say it again…No one can have any doubt, if they’ve watched videos or looked at at all the pictures of Caylee with her family, that she loved them a great deal and they her. I have no doubt Caylee is disappointed in the majority of interested persons, claiming they want justice for her but tear her family to shreds. Everyone is so quick to say the apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, but if that is the case, then Caylee is just like them. I completely understood the change in the family with working with LE. Already that early I could see LE was biased, had tunnel vision and was willing to do what ever was necessary to get their conviction. I would have quit working with them too. Maybe they didn’t have the best of alternatives or resources but they did what they could. I hope you never have to be in a position like them. We have no idea everything that went on behind the scenes but what I’ve read, I understand their attitude and why Lee advised them to refuse the poly.

Hello gang,
Thank you IndyGal for your heartfelt comment. I totally agree with you. How can some people claim they love Caylee more than her own family? Sure they’ll claim they know her because of all they’ve read, all of the pictures they’ve seen but really… to even insinuate that Caylee’s family didn’t care about her and love her more than life… O.M.G.!
Whether they like or not..They will NEVER know the love of Caylee. They will NEVER know what it felt like to have her hugs, her baby kisses, her smell, her smile, her touch. They will NEVER know what it’s like to wake up in the morning and make her breakfast. They will NEVER know how it feels to have her fall asleep in your arms. Nope, no matter how THEY try they can never take that away from Casey “Caylee’s Mother”, her grandmother Cindy, her grandpa Jo Jo and her Uncle Lee.
That’s a fact! And I have no more to say.

oops, Yes I do,
D, you keep using the word “fact”. It’s NOT a fact that the Anthony’s lied. Sure if you believe the media, you may perceive it as a FACT.
Facts? There are so few “facts” in this case, I am LOL-ing.

Judging you? I think you would know that saying the Anthony’s didn’t love baby Caylee is a touchy subject. I don’t go on Topix to opine my love for Casey and the Anthony family. If I did I would expect the same treatment you seem to have to endure right now the only difference is no one has called you a derogatory name and for that I think you have to give us some credit.
As a matter of fact, you just said that we need medical help?? Totally unnecessary and I agree that’s not like you. I don’t know what to say about that. We’ve always been respectful to you but.. you have to be considerate and mindful that some topics will get you clamored (verbally) and saying that the Anthony family didn’t love their grandchild Caylee is big one here.

So in order to keep the discussion on course, I hope you and anyone else who cares to comment here will not incite discourse. There’s several other blogs where you can slam the Ants all day but not this one.

Damagdpets: SAYS:The horses are trampaling the cart put infront of them…….Where was the love and caring you refer to in protecting Caylee. Where is the love and caring after the fact in trying to find out what happened. Caylee is being disrespected by her family who has not done anything to find the truth.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
This is an opinion..it is not based on facts! In fact..

Damadpets SAYS:If you are sickened then seek medical help or an open mind.
__________________________________________________________________________________
Nice comment..I will consider the source. Maybe you should take your own advice
It seems you are intelligent enough..but are quite the “in the box thinker”..

damagdpets: I am still trying to figure out what you said in that post. I must agree with you about the emotional commenting. I am really not emotionally attached, but more interested in the fair trial system. I get attacked emotionally daily and I do my best to just take it. Sometimes I don’t handle it so well. I must say it does seem you have been on edge the last couple of weeks, but what the hey, its okay with me and that is just my opinion. I would like to talk about GA and CA lies and how they apply to Kc’s charge. I will not get emotional during discussion at all. If their lies do play a part in the death of Caylee, then I want to know about it. I am not sure this is the correct thread to discuss their lies in, so if you know of a thread that is appropriate, I want to know more. I tried to respond to your post on the hinky last night, but I was too late.

I would like to apologize to anyone here that may think that I am emotionally attached to this case. I really am not. I realize that the mechanical thinking and posting does not always paint the real picture or the whole picture and I understand why people are so emotional. I would rather discuss mechanically or logically to decipher the facts. I do not mean any emotional harm to anyone. I guess that makes me kind of a jerk, but I need to stay focused on the facts for now.

GA and CA appear to me to have been a typical American Family up until Caylee became missing. Mom’s in charge and if she doesn’t get her way, then someone must pay. Dad wants to believe he plays the role of the Man in the family. Daughter plays along as long as she gets her way, and she will always find a way to get her way.
Nothing really comes into question until July 15th, at that point it is their knee jerk reactions that come into question. Anything and everything they do come under close public scrutiny. I do not know how I would have reacted. If they did anything wrong in their kneejerk reactions, then it will come out, but I doubt it has anything to do with Caylee losing her life. Many can lose focus in the drama. My main interest is that Kc gets a fair trial. If she is guilty, then she must do her time for whatever the crime is. Hope I haven’t offended anyone

damagdpets
February 9, 2011 at 4:41 pm
snipped:
I think Lee did the right thing when he stopped interfering and got immunity when he found out what possible charges could be brought against him unlike his parents who went for the brass ring.
==========================
damag,
I think you are mistaken. you said he “got” immunity. I don’t think that is a fact. He didn’t “get” immunity, he was “offered” immunity. And no one knows what possible charges if ANY could have been brought against him. I don’t recall reading in the documents that the State had anything to charge Lee with. Am I right?
IF he had done anything wrong, I think the State would have happily charged him by now.
JMO

I use to love to come here to read the blog but lately I have found that the tone has changed a lot. I for one do not know what happened, if KC killed Caylee which no one for sure does. They cannot say for a fact one way or another. As far as George and Cindy goes I have no doubt that they loved their granddaughter. I am disappointed how they have behaved once KC was looked at as the one that killed their granddaughter. I do think they have lied about some things but I also understand why they did it. The family is not a perfect one but if people were to take a look at all of our families they may get a different picture also. In a couple of months the trial will take place and after it is done this case will go away and another one will take its place. I try not to let anti-Casey or pro-Casey antics get in the way of my thinking, I have my own thoughts and will continue to debate things in my mind. I consider myself a reasonable thinking person and do not let the debating cloud what is my belief. I read at The Hinky Meter as well as here and do not comment very often but I read at both sites for information not to sow discord. I feel that the defense will do the job they need to do as well as the SAO and I also think JP will continue to move this case along, it cannot go on forever. I am not a lawyer and do not pretend to know the law so I leave it to the people that are qualified to do this. Sorry for the long post but needed to reflect.

I have read at several other blogs, and can count on 2 fingers the time in the past 2 1/2 years I have commented anywhere other than here. The reason for that is that I did not want to get wrapped up in the emotionalism of the whole blog world. I live in rural Illinois and I do not have cable TV, so I have never seen an episode of Nancy Grace or JVM. This case caught my attention on the national network news when it first broke. Like so many other people, I was struck by the picture of Caylee and the manhunt that was going on for her at the beginning. Like everyone else, I was bothered when I learned very early on that the child had been missing for 31 days before anyone reported her missing. Maybe it’s my own propensity to pull for the underdog, or perhaps it was just pure gut instinct that, in the very early days of news coverage, led me to feel that something was not quite right with the way this was being reported. There was something nagging at me on the inside that told me to not rush to judgement because there is more to the story than the ratings-seeking, sensationalist news media was reporting. I began my own quest to stay up on the case, mostly by googling for news during my breaks at work. One thing led to another and before long, I was reading The Caylee Daily, Hinky and MD every day. I was struck early on by the obvious hatred for the Anthony family and the cries for the head of Casey Anthony on a platter…..all in the name of love and justice for Caylee. Being a christian myself, I found it strange that so many people were praying for Caylee and invoking the name of God to protect her and yet, were saying horrible, ugly, crude, foul things about her family. Ist John 3:15 says he who hates is brother is a murderer and 1st John 4:20 says that if someone says they love God yet hates his brother, he is a liar. I am sorry if some find that to be preachy. That is not my intention. My intention is to say that from early on, way before the remains were found, way before the first document dump, people on blogs have been spewing hatred and citing opionion as fact. If you look on any of those blogs, you will see many (not everyone) saying how they pray for little Caylee, how God is looking out for her, how they love her, yada yada….but in the very next breath, they are hurling foul insults and wishing harm and death on Caylee’s family. That kind of stuff absolutely turns me off. As JB pointed out, no one can honestly say for a fact that they loved Caylee. They, like myself, may have found themselves heartbroken at the situation, or saddened or even sickened that such a precious young life had been ended way too soon. But hating her family isn’t going to bring her back. Hurling insults along with your prayers just makes you sound ridiculous. And in all fairness, this isn’t aimed directly at Damagd because I’ve never heard him/her bring prayers or angels or God into any discussion. I bring all this up to solidify my reasoning for not blogging on other sites. When folks resort to rudeness and name calling and hatemongering, their intelligent observations are reduced to ignorant gibberish. Perhaps that is one factor that has driven me to look closely at all the evidence and not be sucked into the majority, media-driven viewpoint that most seem to share in this case. So maybe I will shake my head and have to eat humble pie when the trial is all over because I thought that Casey was not guilty of killing her child. But MAYBE, just maybe, there are going to be a whole lot of people sitting around scratching their heads and remembering all the nasty things they said about this family, and all the rude and crass and immature treatment they gave to others (NTS….I read the stuff on Hinky…and they are rude to you) who had a differing viewpoint, and feeling really, really stupid for jumping to conclusions about the entire family before all the facts were presented. I’m not stupid nor niave…I can see why people dislike a lot of the personalities involved in this case. But being an unlikable person doesn’t automatically make one a murderer nor a criminal of any kind for that matter. Sorry for the rant. Just my depreciating 2 cents worth.

I feel just terrible, I changed the topic and drama followed.
I am sorry JB, everyone was coexisting in peace until I let loose on somthing I did not agree with.
People like your blog because you keep things civil, my intentions were not to run any one off.
damagdpets has posted here long before I ever became a reader and my comment to him was , well quite rude.
& for that I’d just like to apologize to both of you.
Well I’m off to bed, nite all 🙂

Omar,
snipped
“When folks resort to rudeness and name calling and hatemongering, their intelligent observations are reduced to ignorant gibberish. ”

Funny that you say this,
I used to have respect for Val H and then I read one of her posts where she was ranting about Casey plucking her eyebrows and saying it looked like caterpillars sitting on her head.
Then I seen where she banned NTS for simply asking questions that she did not have the patience to answer.

Hello again Omar, I guess we all have our stories of how we came across this case.
I really like the way you think. I felt the same as you in many of aspects. At the beginning, I thought KC was playing a horrible trick on her mother and everything would be sorted out, KC would owe Orange County thousands of dollars for LE time invested. Maybe she would be arrested for criminal mischief. When I heard that Caylee’s bio-dad was Missing in Action, of course I thought..well, she’s with him and he’ll return her.
As the case evolved, things started to look bad for KC with the smell of the car but I still wasn’t convinced. I think when KC took LE on the wild goose chase to Universal, I changed my mind. It was too obvious of a lie not to want to look deeper.
Like you, I was totally turned off by the hatred towards Cindy, Lee and George. Unlike you though, I started to comment on blogs about the case. I had to swallow a whole lot of pride to get pass the negative comments and the unfounded speculation. I had to choose my words very carefully in order not to cause problems. Of course, some caught on to my disquise and complained about me. Quite a few of them wanted me banned from the site but for some reason the blog owner wouldn’t do it. I think because I didn’t retailiate to their attacks. BTW, I think NTS does a good job of keeping his composure.
Back to my story, I continued posting comments there and then one day..”poof” his site was gone. I didn’t post anywhere for about 3 months until I found MD’s. At first I felt welcomed but 2 months later, I realized his place was not for me and that’s when I created theJBmission in honor of my Mother.
I wanted my blog to be like the one I was looking for. Intelligent people who want to discuss the evidence and leave out the Casey Anthony bashing. I felt awful for Jose Baez too. Not to mention poor Cindy, George and Lee. Amazingly, once all of that was left out of the discussion, it really took on a life of its own. Really insightful people brought lots of good stuff to the table. Sometimes I’m amazed by the topics we discuss here and it’s not because of me, it’s about the people who comment here.

NTS..First of all I would like to say I admire your tenacity. I went to hinky and read her article..
although it was interesting..while doing so I also went back to the tape documents as well. I also looked for your posts. After muddling through the others, that were so automatically
convinced this meant SAO had their ticket for the duct tape..I found your posts. I always
enjoy them, because you are an out of the box thinker..and because someone says this is black and white, you look for the gray area. They were very good posts..but she came back
with a vengeance, explaining corporate changes..and so on. I seen where you did nothing
wrong..you were not slamming anyone, word slinging, or trying to be disruptive. But after
a couple posts you were banned!

Now as far as being emotionally attached. I would not say that I am emotionally
attached. I do know I am driven for answers. I would say because of a couple reasons.
First of all, I had a possible sighting..that had set me on fire.

In the event that my sighting was at such time frame..that would mean their time frame had to be off..as well as it instilled doubt as to if she was guilty.

And as the case progressed..I found myself having more doubts of her guilt. Quite
the opposite of the majority. It was quite frustrating feeling like I was the only one!
The whole case to be seems to be prejudicial. I was born under the scales of justice.
Although astrology can be somewhat generalized and not always apply..for me it applies,
Big Time!..I have an idealistic view of justice..that I realize not everyone shares. But it
is my view, and my hope. I have little patience when it comes to prejudicial people.

I have been involved with a form of investigating in the past. It has always presented
me with great challenge..and quite rewarding. This case has presented
many challenges in that form. So though it is a very sad case..that I have an interest
for various reasons..I do not think an emotional attachment is my drive.. My emotions
do come into play because of the prejudicial remarks of people. And that would pertain
to my every day behavior and character.

I like coming here and discussing, looking for truths, looking for justice, sharing information, deciphering information given to us. I look forward to all the knowledge..what I have learned..what you and Zuben have put forth in some areas I would not be good at.
I am not interested in gossiping about KC or her family. I am not interested in discord.
I do not believe as the majority. I have more than reasonable doubt for KC.

I want justice served for Caylee and I want KC to have a fair trial. The actions of
of the A’s..I have not walked in their shoes. Nor would I even want to wear even
one of their shoes. I don’t know them, nor Casey, I don’t know their history. i
know nothing of any experiences they have had. I don’t perceive to know their
character, or personalities..I can not say I would have done any thing different.
I don’t know.

I do know I came to this blog for the simple reason that there were others that
felt like I did. It took me a long time to get here. As I said i admire your tenacity
to go to other blogs and debate the facts, or elsewise with the majority. Thank you.
I have to say that ..because I can’t even. Some one should LOL But a couple comments
and you were gone LOL

IMO this case has become a precedent case in FL and beyond. I want that precedent,
to serve a good purpose.

Omar..SAYS:Maybe it’s my own propensity to pull for the underdog, or perhaps it was just pure gut instinct that, in the very early days of news coverage, led me to feel that something was not quite right with the way this was being reported. There was something nagging at me on the inside that told me to not rush to judgement because there is more to the story than the ratings-seeking, sensationalist news media was reporting.
_____________________________________________________________________________________
Funny..usually words come to me..but I had a hard time in my last post expressing ..write, delete, write delete. Part of one of my comments deleted LOL is my propensity as well to
pull for the underdog. That I generally can find some thing good no matter how bad
a person is perceived to be. I am more interested in understanding their actions, than the
action itself.

i am a Christian also. And I totally agree with all that you said. It is frightening to even
think about how many went there. I am not sure I understand that. I don’t know what
the outcome will be..but my gut tells me as well..something is not right here.

I so appreciate your comment! It made my night! Thank-you! and DITTO to everything
you said!

JB and Snoop-I think this blog is amazing, and the people who post here do bring so much thought and intellectual ammunition to the table that it is amazing! It is a comfort to, first of all, know that I can ask questions or comment without being insulted and called names, and second of all, to read the comments of others who are kind and courteous as well as brilliant thinkers. NTS must be a saint, because I think that the dignity and composure with which he carries himself is above and beyond normal. Banned for a different viewpoint is in direct opposition to the liberty and justice they so pompously tout. So much for “free” thinking, huh? At any rate, JB, I’m so glad you started this blog. I’m only sorry it took me so long to find it. And Snoop…I will have to catch up with reading all that’s here because I’d like to know more about your sighting!! I think we all bring emotion into a discussion because we, as humans, are built with emotions, whether that be love, hate, anger, hurt, defensiveness or whatever. I can’t honestly say I have no emotions attached to this case. I guess the biggest one I feel is empathy for the family. When I say I have no emotional attachment, what I mean, I guess, is that I stand to lose absolutely nothing regardless of the verdict rendered at the completion of the trial. I, too, am a “scales of justice” sort of person, and I can’t tolerate injustice in any form…..it hurts my soul. I believe justice should be fair and impartial. I believe in the death penalty when merited. But I don’t think it should ever be applied simply because someone is unlikable. I strongly believe that this should never have been a death penalty case. And, like another poster I read (I don’t remember who)….I’d rather see a guilty person walk free than an innocent one die for something they didn’t do. Thus far, there has been no evidence that has convinced me of Casey Anthony’s guilt in committing first degree murder. There is tons of evidence to convince me that she was irresponsible at times, selfish, dishonest and guilty of bad taste in men, and often times promiscuous…..none of which prove guilt of murder. Granted, these things do not help her case, nor do they make her look innocent….but they do not prove guilt. As for her family…..God forbid any of us ever have to stand in their shoes for even one second.

And if you really want to know the bottom line reason why I feel she is not guilty of this crime….it is this:
No 23 year old would sit in jail, facing a death sentence if convicted, knowing the evidence that has been released, and realizing that her actions have made her one of the most hated indivuduals in America, and NOT confess to SOMETHING in order to try to spare her own life if she really had committed this crime. She may be narcissistic (as we hear nauseatingly often) and immature and selfish, but harder criminals than her have cried like babies and begged for plea deals when faced with what she’s facing. I just don’t buy it. She has a story to tell. There is a bigger picture than the Florida Sunshine laws can paint at this time.

Not so sure it went down this way. It is more likely that shurtape already had the product and worked with Henkel to sell it under the Henkel name to increase sales. I doubt Henkel ever made the product.

Shurtape has many different models of duct tape to include an industrial strength model without cotton. Most of the industrial strength grade use the same chemicals, it is the cloth that determines the strength and specs. I do not believe for one second that they run only one or two types of duct tape in a given day. I picture several rolls of different types of cloth for different specs.

It may be the same product that are on the old sheets. I looked it up and did find pc 621 that was on revision 2 , page 1, but there are different item numbers for lowes and ace.

The tape he is quoting may be the same damned tape as in the Henkel specs, but it may not be the same tape that was found on Caylee. He is 95 percent sure, and I understand that he is quality control or quality assurance. So, I am sure he has came across a few rolls/runs that used the wrong cloth.

He said that the cotton portion appears to have deteriorated away. Is it that simple? The unbiased juror will just assume that the cotton was there at one time and take his word for it? What do you think he is going to be asked on cross?

It is my opinion that many are assuming many things. I wish he would have said in his short short letter to the csi that we know it is this tape, because we do not make it without the cotton. Here we are over a year later and we are not hearing that statement from henkel or shurtape. You can bet it will be asked on the stand.

I was here to discuss the duct tape in a kind manner in high hopes someone knew a little bit more about manufacturing. I understand that most of the posters agree with you and that is fine. MOO

Indygal..Your comment should be on many blogs LOL..It took so long to find this
blog that I just don’t want it to head in the direction of the others.

Diane..I agree

D, I’m not sure why..but you have changed your demeanor in the last couple of
weeks. I do generally like to read your comments..and I think its good to debate
facts. Your opinions are yours and I have mine. But I just felt as though you had a change
in attitude for whatever reason, and it was not becoming to you, or the blog.
I hope you stick around and we can go back to normal?

JB..Thanks for posting that! His comments were really good. But he didn’t last long.
He only debated the facts. But as we see..we have have people jump in here from
time to time so angry. I was looking for something..and something caught my attention..
it turned out to be Bullstopper..LOL never been there before. WOW they really get hung up on JB Mission ..All because we are not the majority ..Crazy..Why do they care?

OMAR SAYS:No 23 year old would sit in jail, facing a death sentence if convicted, knowing the evidence that has been released, and realizing that her actions have made her one of the most hated indivuduals in America, and NOT confess to SOMETHING in order to try to spare her own life if she really had committed this crime. She may be narcissistic (as we hear nauseatingly often) and immature and selfish, but harder criminals than her have cried like babies and begged for plea deals when faced with what she’s facing. I just don’t buy it. She has a story to tell. There is a bigger picture than the Florida Sunshine laws can paint at this time.
___________________________________________________________________________________
ABSOLUTELY! Great Comment!
Good night..morning all!

Omar, not preachy at all. Regardless of whether one trusts the scriptures as truth or not, no one can deny it is hypocritical to proclaim their rigorousness, faithfulness to a higher power, love for Caylee and wish torture and death on her family. I am of the opinion that we are all sparks of that one great force. Some of the sparks are healthy sparks, some are dis-eased. I am just idealistic enough to trust that even the dis-eased sparks can be restored to health and learn that to love our neighbor is to, in fact, love ourselves. Enough of my preaching. 😉

Snoop, my mind operates under the scales of Justice and I am fully aware that they are out of balance. I’ve always thought it is interesting that a heart is used to balance the scales, in Egyptian thought and myth. By the way, I can see truth hidden in all myth. It only requires one look at it symbolically.

Fact, Casey has been proven to be a liar in at least a couple of statements but I’ve seen no evidence that any of rest of the family told a lie. A couple of their statements were different at a different time, such as the smell of death in the car, but that is the nature of being human. Perception changes, things start running together, pressure fogs the mind. I have a brother that swears something that happened to my sister really happened to him. He isn’t lying, he really believes it.

Fact, according to Linda Burdick, a person that is questioned as a witness is afforded certain immunities under Florida law, regardless of whether they specifically offer it to them or not.

Fact, if the As did anything to obstruct justice it would have been to the state’s advantage to go after them and declare them a hostile witness. That would only strengthen their case against their daughter because why else would they try to cover for her unless she were guilty, in their mind?

NTS, I was banned from one site too. I’m still trying to figure out why but one thing that happened just before is that I asked a simple honest question of someone that was claiming to be a pathologist/medical examiner/expert. We were discussing the chemicals found in human decomposition and when I mentioned one chemical, she came back with another form of that chemical, full scientific name. The problem was, the chemical she listed is not one listed for decomposition, it is a fertilizer ingredient. When I asked her about that there was dead silence. Not long after I was called a schmuck and then banned a couple comments later. Those are the facts, I’ll let you draw your own conclusion. You know me well enough, from reading me here to know I am not leaving out any important fact and wasn’t disrespectful.

Damagdpets, it’s true there is something strange about you the last couple of weeks. I’ve always had the utmost respect for you but you really don’t seem like yourself. You have been ignoring my questions to you since the Tamper thread and seem to be reacting emotionally. Have I offended you? If so, I’m sorry.

Jb, I really don’t think my ban at Hinky is important, but you asked. lol
History: Val and I had it out on a number of occasions at WS a couple of years ago. It was nasty and I got timed out a couple of times and she finally moved on to her own web site. I would read the hinky every couple of months. Did not give it much attention over the next year or so.
Then I was on the insessions board and people kept threatening me that VAl would eat me alive and make a fool out of me if given the chance. I thought, sheesh, can’t you folks do your own discussion without Val? I didn’t really respond to that or do anything about it. Then, I was on the os hals blog where you basically don’t get banned. Val came on there (or an imposter) and put a very rude post about me in there. I responded with, lets talk about the evidence and she responded with, why don’t you come to the hinky meter and discuss. I said, that won’t work because you will just ban me when you begin to lose.
I went to the Hinky meter and she assured me that all opinions are welcome. I asked her about that on more than one occasion. She was snarky to me throughout my tenure, but assured me that my opinion was welcome.
Recently she wrote a duct tape story about mr Charlesworth. I challenged the concept that it was a slam dunk, that it was the same tape. As you can see in the Jb post that I was suspect of mr Charlesworth claiming that it appeared as though the cotton deteriorated. That kind of statement bothers me because it assumes there was cotton there at one time.
Val warned me that she was in a bad mood and I should have listened to her. In the next post, I simply asked why did the State change its expert? Why not simply add on the new witness?
That is what she said I earned the ban for. But wait, theres more? I still was not banned and when I got home that night, I begin to post some more. I searched the net and found that shurtape had several versions of cottonless duct tape. I posted the links and began to explain that I was only saying that they had other cloths in their factories. At that point I got knocked off and all my post removed that link to the shurtape products that were cottonless. But wait, theres even more. Jwg had made a post about there being no cottonless version of Shurtape duct tape. Jwg as well was one of the WS posters that constantly baited me and tried to make a fool out of me way back on WS. This is all just showmanship. They are showing off to their friends. It is fun to pick on nts, but when nts provides links, it can be very very embarrassing. hence the ban.

No hard feelings against Val and she did indeed warn me that she was in a bad mood. I feel no loss whatsoever because I usually would just read anyway. Most of the posters there are followers and do not know how to be objective. Val is welcome to come over to Os and discuss the slam dunk duct tape story anytime she pleases. I will welcome her with open arms and I will be kind to her. Sorry about the blog drama. lol

I love it that I can post objective questions here and not get banned. I really do wonder if the original henkel rep questioned the states intentions.

Playing devils advocate is always provocative because it generally flies in the face of popular/unpopular belief. I asked questions of Indygal not to attack her but to really find out the thought process behind her comment. Unfortunately things can be taken several ways. Sorry Ingal for creating a stir…..not my intention. I think I get concerned when I read about how Caylee must feel…..she was 2 years old when her life was taken. The call “Justice for Caylee” has taken many sides.

My concern for justice is shadowed by the defense ethics to date and articles like this below.

NTS, took a lunch break to check in and have a comment to add to your duck tape info. QC inspectors are not trained to determine fabric deterioration as far as I know. Actuially, many QC people don’t have “official” training but instead get on the job training to use the equipment. Their expertise will cover the types of things they must check and the equipment they use to check those details. In order to determine the cotton was dissolved, he would at least need to know the diameter of the thread when it started out then determine that the cotton portion was missing based on that measurement. I forget right off it the wrap or the core was cotton. or if the whole thread was a blend of cotton and poly. I believe it was Z twist. If only the core or the twist was missing, the remaining thread would look a little like hair that has been crimped, I believe. I didn’t notice that sort of look at all and it didn’t look thinner than the treads running the other way, to me either. But I only saw photographs. Still, I did not thing the report was written as an expert on the deterioration of fibers.

Zub, The tape was a blend of 65% Poly and 35% Cotton. I don’t think the report was written about the deterioration either. I think it was written because of comparison of the same tape by two different manufacturers. I still want to see forensics on the tape on the shelves as well as from the gas can for comparison. Without being a chemist in the textile industry the report is a little compelling.

notthatsmart
February 9, 2011 at 11:06 pm
Thank you Jb. This is the best blog on the net. IMO
The only one you haven’t been banned from, so please do the world a favor and keep your sorry behind here. By the way your article should be named ggod luck hunting!

It is an act of desperation on the State’s part to bring in a witness to try and refute their own FBI witness regarding the inconsistency of the gas can and remains duct tape sticky backing.

Another thought on the duct tape found on the remains……If the duct tape was applied on the mouth and nose of an alive Caylee there should have been some Caylee DNA found on the sticky side of the tape. If she were alive, I would think there would have been mucus and saliva from an attempt to breath. If there was enough glue left to analyze, there was enough glue left to capture DNA from mouth or nose fluids.

The deterioration process of the sticky back of duct tape on an object/body that was encased in two bags of plastic and a canvas bag for 6 months would be an interesting study. For some reason I always thought duct tape would withstand heat and moisture more so than any other tape. Why would the cotton on the tape stuck on the remains entirely deteriorate in 6 months when the cotton in the other exposed items(i.e. short, blanket, shirt) still be somewhat intact. I would think the glue and the fact it was adhered to a surface would experience less deterioration that the other items.

Am I correct in assuming the gas can duct tape was used as a flap for the vent hole in the can. If so, could not the heat Fla heat build up in a shed and gasoline have a similar effect on deterioration. My ramblings are just a sample of the many questions that need to be answered regarding the explanation of “possible” deterioration to explain away the FBI report.

Indygal, I saw your comments regarding duct tape after writing my comments. I think you and I are having the same thoughts on the deterioration of backing on the tape. Your point of the overlapping tape is quite a valid argument in my layman opinion.

If a mystery hair exposed to the same elements was found intact enough to determine that if did not come the anthony’s or any other known persons that were collecting evidence and debris at the site, then, I would think that cotton with glue backing designed to be heat and water resistance would not entirely erode due to the elements in the same time period.

I’m sticking with IndyGal,
Your comment was so clear and easy to understand… I applaud you!! Sooo, IF what you’re saying is correct and that’s the State of Florida’s answer to the duct tape??
Well, Orlando you have a problem. I agree with you. If there’s no cotton, there’s cotton-picking NO COTTON!! 😀
MAC – Thank you. That was my next question. Doesn’t the State have the FBI to do their forensic work? Un-freaking-believable!

Sasha, If you would read the FBI reports regarding the “mystery” hair you would see the many names of the CSI members that had 5 or more hairs plucked out of their heads to cross check with hair found with the remains.

It was conclusive that CSI membersthat were known to be handling the remains did not match the hair. The hairs of the Anthony’s were checked and the “mystery ” hair did not come from them,.

What do you want? I am quite sure the State would welcome finding a match of a CSI member.The LE is now stuck with a hair found with the remains and no idea whose head it came from.

JB, I am glad you could see the common logic of the other items being somewhat intact and their cotton content not deteriorating. In my view the glue on the tape would have helped preserve the cotton from deterioration. I look forward to how the State uses Mr. Charlesworth of Shurtape to impeach the testimony of their own FBI witness who analyzed both the tapes from the can and the remains.

MAC, never mind. I was hoping you could actually point me to where the evidence stated conclusively that ALL csi members that were on scene did not match, instead of just saying “read the fbi reports”, because I’ve read FBI reports and don’t come to the same conclusion as you. Thanks anyway.

============================Hi Sasha,
IIRC, a hair was found in the Disney bag near the burial site. It was during the time when FBI agent Lorie Gottesman’s DNA somehow found it’s way on the duct tape. During this time several investigators submitted hair samples…but I don’t recall IF the hair was identified. It seems you have the FBI reports and you came to a different conclusion..Do you have a link or media site reporting the identity of the hair. As a favor to all of us, could you post it here? I’m curious too.
TIA,
JB

I have a curiosity about the tape and the clothing. The tape was reported to be on the skull. I will have to go back to find out if the clothes were pulled off the skeletal remains. This all due to the chemicals created by decomposition. I have had experience with duct tape and UV rays & weather after a period of time but don’t know what the decomp fluids and their chemical reaction would be due to tape. Just wanted to add to the consideration because this case will boil down to experts. Typically the accused in a case like this never takes the stand to explain their actions. We continue to focus on forensics and what ifs but the testimony of KC still elusive since she stopped talking the day after being arrested. I for one still want to hear in her own words why she told LE what she did or didn’t do.

Well for starters. There is a polyethlene backing, then cloth, then glue. The websites do not claim that it is waterproof, but they do claim that it is water resistant. The tape was over lapped and in a criss cross pattern. Where it crosses, the tape should have been completely protected. Apparently (according to the docs) the Fbi found no cotton. If they would have found even one strand of cotton, they would have reported it. I understand why people want to believe that it is the same tape, but it doesn’t help to claim something appears to have disappeared.
There has been plenty of time for the state to create some control samples. The body farm could do this as well, by wrapping duct tape around a pigs head to see if the decomp fluid actually deteriorates the cotton to nothing. But keep in mind that that assumes there was decomp fluid on the duct tape in the first place. I have a real hard time assuming something was there at one time, without any proof. This would be a good one for mythbusters.

It appears to have disappeared. Great tagline 🙂
==========================================Hi NTS, you said “create some control samples” I was thinking the same. Very good point.
Thanks,
JB

Sasha, Where was the Pooh blanket found? Where was the remains of the BIG Trouble shirt found. Don’t you think the shorts would have more exposure to the elements if they were pulled out of the plastic bags to lay on the ground.

Again to your question regarding “all” CSI workers at the scene or in the labs: I would hope the investigation of this case would have dictated all known CSI workers with any contact with the remains would have been lined up to have their hair plucked for tests. If the investigators over looked any CSI workers and did not test their hair against the mystery hair, that would show what a sloppy job was conducted in the investigation.

I get the feeling you would like to diminish any importance of this hair being found with the remains. Maybe the jury can be told to just ignore any exculpatory evidence because it is likely an investigative error.

There are quite a few acids and other chemicals released when the body starts the decomposition process. Some chemicals very volatile. From the looks of the tape in questions…it does not look like it was placed there when the remains were found. To the layman it looks as though it has been there for quite some time. The degradation of the tape is in the eye of the beholder and the scientists. Some of the things I see about it relate to things I have seen around the yard in using duct tape on garden tools, etc. I looked and actually have two different kinds….PVC and Cloth Type.

MAC, Woah, no need to be confrontational and defensive. I was just asking a simple question, and you didn’t have an answer. I’m not diminishing the importance of the hair, please don’t put words in my mouth (or on my keyboard LOL). All I’m saying is that so far I haven’t seen documents where all csi’s have been conclusively excluded. In your first post you said “all csi workers who were in contact with the remains have been conclusively excluded” and now when pressed for details, you basically say “I would HOPE all csi workers have been tested”. That’s a huge difference, in my opinion. If this website purports to look at facts and evidence and place emphasis on truth, I would think the difference would be important here. Maybe not?

MAC, regarding your question about the pooh blanket and big trouble letters. I’m not sure of the exact composition of each of them, so they could very well deteriorate at dramatically different rates. ie)if the shorts had denim in them they would hold up longer, etc.

damagdpets, I am not qualified to present a scientific argument to your comments regarding decomposition or time or factors for degradation of duct tape. I do know from reading of other bodies being found after months and sometimes years the remains many times have recognizable clothing on the skeletal remains.

My unscientific take is that body chemicals volatile enough to gobble up the cotton under the glue of duct tape wold have also gobbledthe shirt collar and the little shorts. Though faded these items still had clothes tabs that showed the size of the clothes.

Your comments do raise another question for me. I am surprised the clothes and Pooh blanket from the bagdid not yield any DNA or evidence of decomposition fluids. Maybe they did and I missed the report. If so it won’t be any great shakes for me since it would be expected to sind some forensic traces from Caylee.

Sasha, I don’t want to add fuel to the fire but if the shirt or letters had a polyester blend in them then they would withstand the elements a little longer. Not being an expert, there are too many parameters involved when anyone mentions elements whether it is outside or next to decomposition fluids. This is getting complicated. In the cases I have read there is always a question about cross contamination by CSI people, it goes with the territory. Cross contamination is a well defined defense avenue with forensic data.

Mac, For the sake of argument, the clothes were swabbed for DNA but did not qualify by FBI standards. My curiosity to this is why did the defense only have the bag and shorts tested? In the interest of justice all should have been tested for “touch DNA.” I’m sure in the future that the sequencing and expansion of DNA will become common place, currently it’s a new science that has just been accepted.

Hi damagdpets, thanks. I totally agree but don’t find it odd at all the shirt itself disintegrated while the tag stayed intact. (tags are usually silky, no?) It’s a perfect example of how different textiles hold up differently. The fact that the letters were intact and the shirt material wasn’t, just proves my point further.

And you’re right, there are way too many variables involved here and it’s complicated. I do think there is a distinction to be made, though, between the cotton on the duct tape vs the cotton in the clothes: the proximity to the mouth makes a world of difference, IMO. The fact that liquids and gases would be purging out of the mouth, creates a vastly different decompositional environment than the blanket and shorts, etc that were just on skin.

Mac, I forgot to mention something. You are so right about bodies that have been found with clothes spanning many years. The problem is that trying to compare clothing to a manufactured tape product is day and night but I understand exactly what your point is!

Sasha, I am sorry that you interrupted my comments as confrontation and defensive. I never argue with opinion and/or speculation. I will argue with facts as I know them. You put my words in quotation marks and then misquoted me. You omitted the fact that in two posts I said “known” CSI members. I can not say “all “CSI workers in contact with the remains had hair plucked but I will say I assume all known CSI workers had hair examined. I assume that because it would behoove this investigation to have checked all known CSI members. The situation of having a mystery found on or with the remains is a gift for the defense for reasonable doubt.

I believe the defense will attack the CSI investigation and any arguments that the mystery hair possibly belonging to an overlooked CSI member is another maybe, could be or a possibly scenario that leaves the jury to speculation and shores a defense argument the LE was slack in their investigation. I do have enough faith in the investigators to have checked all known CSI workers to try to determine the source of the hair.

Sasha: its okay to be technical. I do it all the time. One might say it is fair to assume they excluded those people, but one does not know for sure unless they document it. These technicalities can be difficult to discuss. I understand that it is fair to assume once in awhile, but there are wild assumptions going on in this case. This is not one of them. It seems fair to assume that the employees were tested. If they did not test all of them and they have now found the owner of the hair, then I wish they would save us all a lot of heartache and release that document. For now, there is a mystery hair and the State will just have to deal with it. IMO

D: Speaking of assumptions. We may be assuming that the tape was soaked in decomp fluid, but IIRC they did not find any decomp fluid or residue on the duct tape that I am aware of. So, at best we are assuming that the duct tape was in contact with decomp fluid or chemicals.

I agree that the chemicals in human decomp soup are very very potent and can probably deteriorate cotton. However, where the tape is criss crossed and the fabric is protected, it would be much more difficult. Looking at the tape, parts seem to be in tact. Once, someone explained to me that the moisture caught the edges of the duct tape and got in between the glue and the poly to deteriorate the cotton. I too have seen duct tape in very bad shape out on the side of my garage on my boat trailor, but there was some glue left and much cloth. I have also seen duct tape on fence post out in the country that has been there for years in the elements and looks completely in tact. I think the state will need control samples to prove to a jury that the cotton was there at one time. Or at least some kind of proof that the factory in question did not carry cottonless cloth. They will also need to prove that Mr Charlesworth is being completely thorough and not leaving out other possibilities. In fairness, he did say 95 percent shurity, but that leaves a 5 percent chance coming from an quality assurance person. I wonder if Jerry has been over there.

NTS you said
“Speaking of assumptions. We may be assuming that the tape was soaked in decomp fluid, but IIRC they did not find any decomp fluid or residue on the duct tape that I am aware of. So, at best we are assuming that the duct tape was in contact with decomp fluid or chemicals.”

Do you think duct tape placed over the mouth of a decomposing body would NOT be soaked by decomp fluid? The fact that there was no fluid or residue on the duct tape is only evidence of time passing. Am I wrong? I don’t get where you’re going with this. Are you insinuating that the tape was placed over her mouth after she was skeletonized? I ask because I’m trying to come to a logical conclusion based on you suggesting that the tape may not have been on her mouth while she decomposed. I honestly don’t get where you’re going with this and hope you will elaborate

NTS, I have not read in any of the forensics that decomp fluids were observed on the bags or anything else for that matter. This is confusing. As far as 95%, that is pretty much accepted in a court of law just like there is a 98% chance in paternity. I understand what you are looking for but it will be difficult to bare out in a court of law. This is based on previous trials. It doesn’t mean the jury can be swayed. In the OJ trial the forensic evidence was overwhelming but the jury did not vote that way ( great defense) and then you have the Peterson trial with very little forensic evidence and conviction. Now, go to the Chandra Levy case where there was absolutely no physical or forensic evidence and conviction was acquired rather quickly. That conviction was based on a jail house conversation and great work by the prosecution putting their case before the court and jury. Based on everything we have learned to date there is only one person that could clear this up and they are not talking. So we all keep on guessing…….

damagdpets. I agree there are many unknowns as to the fiber content of the shirt, short and blanket. Polyester would likely hold up better but many fabrics are a blend. The duct tape will be a interesting piece of evidence if the State puts up Mr. Charlesworth 95% opinion with his explanation of the possibly the cotton was entirely deteriorated vs the FBI who says the backing of the two tapes were not consistent. Time will tell how the State handles this problem. I believe there will be no foundation for the State to argue the “possible” deterioration of cotton from Mr. Charlesworth.

I had wondered also why the shorts and the laundry bag were sent for DNA. I will guess the defense is looking for possible DNA that does not belong to Caylee. Touch DNA is another advancement in the science. One case I am familiar with involved finding touch in the elastic waist band of panties. My guess is the shorts are being tested to see if there is touch DNA on the shorts from someone who may have been handling Caylee in pulling up or down her shorts or stuffing her into the plastic bags. I believe there was a pull up found with the remains, so likely ,if Caylee was with anyone other than Casey for a period of time, there would have been a change of the pull up.

I am also guessing the laundry bag which IIRC was canvas. There may be a search for touch DNA of someone handling the canvas bag as they stuffed the bags containing Caylee’s body or were handling it in any fashion prior, during or after the death of Caylee.

Sasha: Talking about assumptions again. I do not picture the tape actually being attached to the mouth. The documents to not support that. The tape was adhered to the hair which was laying on the ground surrounding the base of the skull. To assume that the tape was in contact with any skin, would be again assuming something happened without any proof. I do not believe it as a fair assumption. The defense has already stated that they are going to dispute the placement of the tape. They have seen the photos, we have not. This is why I would like to see control samples. Duct tape is very very sticky and i would expect things to be lodged in the glue even after 6 months in the elements. I do not assume that the tape was in contact with any decomp. Hope that helps

02/10/2011 Order Granting
Motion in Limine to Preclude the Use, in Any Fashion Whatsoever, of a Certain “Jib Jab” Cartoon

02/10/2011 Order Granting
Motion in Limine to Preclude Testimony or Alleged Statements of Witness Anthony Rosciano Connected to Inquiries, Conversations, or Interrogations by Corporal William Edwards Related to Sexual Relations with Defendant

02/10/2011 Order Denying
Motion in Limine Regarding Any Testimony That the Defendant has a History of Lying or Stealing

02/10/2011 Order Denying
Motion in Limine to Prohibit the Use, in Any Fashion, of Internet Myspace References Attributable to the Defendant as “Diary of Days”

02/10/2011 Order Denying
Motion in Limine Regarding Testimony of Neighbor Brian Burner in Reference to Shovel

02/10/2011 Order Denying
Motion in Limine to Exclude Irrelevant Evidence of Tattoo

02/10/2011 Order Granting
in Part and Denying in Part Motion in Limine to Preclude Testimony or Alleged Statements of Witness Anthony Lazaro Connected to Inquiries, Conversations, or Interrogations by Corporal William Edwards Related to Sexual Relations with Defendant

Mac, The magic in all of this is that if KC’s DNA are found on the objects tested the defense could say she was the mom and the DNA would naturally be there. Unless they find different DNA it would be considered a win-win for the defense. On the other hand the prosecution could argue that KC was the last one with Caylee. Again this comes down to expert testimony and how well both sides present their case to the court and jury.

The touch DNA is relatively new in comparison to the Oak Ridge Lab studies and Vass by about 20-30 years. I really believe after the amount of time that Oak Ridge has conducted it’s studies and how they have been applied to LE, they will pass a Frye hearing only because it’s about time. JMHO. In this particular case you have the student that is going to give a difference of opinion from the teacher. It’s been done before but time, knowledge and wisdom usually prevail.

I want to preface the above with a story of one of the greatest scientists of our time. In the last two years one of his theories has been dis-proven so before the scientific community takes anything away from him it will take several years to qualify results. The theory itself was a lifetime ago for this scientist and took this long for someone to come up with an alternate theory to question the original. This is only different because it is academic.

Sasha, Thanks for the update….The only one I got wrong according to my notes was the Diary. I don’t know how they could prove when it was written and for that reason I didn’t think it would make it in. The sex talk and cartoon did not stand a chance in testimony. The fact of who she was with and did not tell about Caylee missing/kidnapped let alone being a happy girl will be the testimony they will be looking for. That is not relevant.

NTS said:
“I do not picture the tape actually being attached to the mouth. The documents to not support that. The tape was adhered to the hair which was laying on the ground surrounding the base of the skull. To assume that the tape was in contact with any skin, would be again assuming something happened without any proof”

So are you saying that you believe the duct tape was placed on caylee after she was skeletonized? Do you believe it never touched her body when her body still had skin/fluid, etc? I’m trying to understand what you’re thinking.

From my scant knowledge of this case, Casey has stuck to her story that she turned over Caylee to someone she knew who had previously helped with babysitting. She admitted to this happening 31 days prior to her mother calling 911. We all know her car was found with a trunk full of garbage that had sat in the hot Fla sun for almost 3 weeks. No proven trace evidence of a “human” decomposition has yet to have been released. The sniff and smell test is still to be tried and true. The Body Farm never found any traces of fluoride which should have been there in a human decomposition event. (I got this from the Body Farm report.)

I think the LE developed their theory immediatelyfrom the stinking car that a dead baby was being hauled around in that car and have tried to make their evidence support that theory.

I believe the evidence should dictate the theory. I’m not sure that is what is happening here. If the evidence to date can be trusted, it is possible there was someone else was with Caylee prior to her death.

DId something happen to her with her mother and someone else? Was Caylee in the custody of someone else prior to her death? Was her body dumped much later that June 16th? These unanswered questions are why there is great interest in this other that the entertainment value some folks find in bashing and hatred of the Anthony family and their attorneys.

I certainly don’t have a theory because I don’t have enough evidence to form one. I know there is a dead little girl and somebody dumped her in the woods.

I have started believing there was a person named Zenaida that has gone under the radar. I have seen enough research from other than LE that leads me to believe she exists and some family and friends named by Casey actually exist. Time may tell. I may be proved very wrong. I believe Casey is guilty of something in letting her daughter get away from her. At this point I don’t what that is and truly hope she did not kill her daughter in premediated cold blood.

” The Body Farm never found any traces of fluoride which should have been there in a human decomposition event. (I got this from the Body Farm report.)”

Because caylee was only 2-3 years old, there SHOULD be no build-up of fluoride in her system yet. I’m sure that was in the Body Farm report as well. Fluoride is not a by-product of the decompositional process itself, but rather fluoride is found in decomp fluids as a result of the build-up in one’s system over time. So, in my opinion, the absence of fluoride just seems to enforce the idea that a)a decompositional event took place, and b)the deceased person didn’t have fluoride built up in their system (aka was likely a young child or someone from a third-world country with no fluorinated water or toothpaste). I’m not sure, but I know that as a parent of a baby, we are taught from the get-go to steer clear of fluoride for the first few years. Hope that helps.

I have never heard that parents with young children should steer clear of fluoride in water. With family in the dental business, I know that parents without fluoride in their water are advised to have a fluoride supplement for their young children. There are fluoride toothpastes and also bubblegum favored fluoride mouth washes recommended for the young ones.

I guess that is something that doesn’t work with babies that have no teeth. Live and learn.

Yes, MAC, I was surprised too when I learned that when I was pregnant. Apparently the fluoride in tapwater is negligible, and nowadays most pediatricians, dentists, and public health nurses advise against using fluorinated toothpaste until 2 years of age. I’m not in the U.S. but I’m sure the recommendations are the same there. Either way, the build-up of fluoride in 2+ years would be minimal at best.

From the Fluoride Action Network:

“In contrast to recommendations adopted in the 1950s, fluoride supplementation is no longer recommended for newborn children. This includes both fluoride in drops, and fluoride in drinking water.

Not only is fluoride ingestion during infancy unnecessary, it can also be harmful – as suggested by a mounting body of evidence linking fluoride exposure during the first year of life with the development of dental fluorosis. (For pictures of dental fluorosis, click here)

Because of the risk for dental fluorosis, and the lack of demonstrable benefit from ingesting fluoride before teeth erupt, the American Dental Association – and a growing number of dental researchers – recommend that children under 12 months of age should not consume fluoridated water while babies under 6 months of age should not receive any fluoride drops or pills”.

ADA recommendations:
The American Dental Association (ADA) recommends that parents not use fluoridated toothpaste for children two years and younger. Older children should be supervised to ensure that they only use a pea size amount of fluoride toothpaste at each brushing. They should also be taught to spit out rather than swallow toothpaste. Children under six years of age may not have completely developed their swallowing reflexes and may accidentally swallow fluoride toothpaste or fluoride rinse. Children under six years of age should not be given fluoride mouthwash unless recommended by a dentist or other health professional.

Oh my, look what happens when I’m away. All sorts of new, very intellectual people show up offering such good common sense. I’m impressed.

Sasha, please see beginning on page 13844 where all of the people that had access to the remains were used to compare to the lone hair. You will have to refer to the communications dated Nov. 24 and 30, 2009 for the original order to do this examination. Further on you will see that these 7 people are the only ones with hair similar to the unknown Caucasion head hair that had access to the crime scene. If you are thinking they missed someone, feel free to check the chain of custody logs and be sure to let them know if they missed someone with the right color hair. I think it is safe to say they wanted to find a member of their team to blame it on but they couldn’t.

Did anyone notice that page 13855 has the violation listed as kidnapping. This is dated 2009. I think
someone is undecided on exactly what this case is and what the charges should be.

There is so much more I”d like to respond to but my work still isn’t done for the day so have a great night all. Keep up the good assessment. Welcome to the new faces.

Mac said:
snipped
I have started believing there was a person named Zenaida that has gone under the radar. I have seen enough research from other than LE that leads me to believe she exists and some family and friends named by Casey actually exist. Time may tell. I may be proved very wrong. I believe Casey is guilty of something in letting her daughter get away from her. At this point I don’t what that is and truly hope she did not kill her daughter in premediated cold blood.

I agree with you. This is just something that nags at me. I do feel that there is a “Zenaida” or someone who acted as a nanny of sorts. People go under the radar all the time. I don’t have enough information to come up with a theory that I’d comment on, but I do know that it’s not that difficult to disappear and not be found. And why, given what happened to Caylee, would this person come forward? Like you, I’m willing to admit that I could be wrong….but my gut tells me I’m not.

Mac, For clarification KC stuck to her story for two days before she retained Baez and never spoke to LE again. Although there were references made to help LE in this investigation by KC and Baez, it never came to pass. I know people are different but I would be screaming at the top of my lungs to anyone that could help me find my child. I continue to go back to the beginning because no one can answer why KC lied to detectives. Less than 12 hours after Cindy called 911 KC was texting her boyfriend relating to who was going to spend the rest of their life in jail if they don’t find Caylee. Because of the above this turns into a forensic case because there is no one to extract the truth from. Everyone here wants justice and I think it could have started with a little truth in the beginning.

Damagd, I wholeheartedly agree. More truth telling would have nipped this in the bud before it exploded into what it has become. I don’t think anyone would dispute that Casey lied or knew more than she told. The question that some of us are asking is “why did she do what she did?” The disagreements arise because most use the reasoning that, “if Casey did not kill her child, she would not have lied about X, Y, and Z. Therefore, since she lied, she must have killed her child.” Others, and I place myself in this category, are not so quick to assume that her lies were told to cover up her part in a murder. Perhaps she did feel she was protecting someone. Perhaps she trusted this nanny person to keep her daughter safe and was lying to protect someone other than herself. There are a million “perhapses” in this case, and ultimately, we may never know the whole truth. I find that your reasoning is sound and certainly seems logical. I definitely respect your knowledge of the case and your ability to reason through the forensics. I wish I could say something more concrete than “I have a feeling…”, but I’d be lying if I did. I don’t think the forensics fit as nicely into the puzzle as LE or the SAO would like them to, and for me, that brings reasonable doubt. When you couple that reasonable doubt with my “gut feeling”, it causes me to NOT assume that Casey’s lies or ommissions point to her guilt necessarily.

Now that I’ve just made myself sound like a stark raving lunatic, I’ll wait for someone more intelligent than myself to bat cleanup. I just want you to know, Damagd, that I do enjoy your comments and appreciate your point of view, even if I don’t alwasy agree.

Sasha said:
“So are you saying that you believe the duct tape was placed on caylee after she was skeletonized? Do you believe it never touched her body when her body still had skin/fluid, etc? I’m trying to understand what you’re thinking”
No actually I have no knowledge of the duct tape being placed at all. I do know the DT has said they are going to dispute the placement of the tape. I have not seen the pictures, so I do not know it was placed. For all I know, it is just debris that ended up there after large storms. The duct tape was adhered to the hair, but the Medical examiner said there was no glue, so I was thinking it was adhered with mud and roots. I have a hard time forming an opinion as to the duct tape being placed, when I have no knowledge that it was placed. I do not disagree with the Dr’s statement that it could be inferred that the duct tape held the mandible in place. But it can also be inferred that the surface, ground held the mandible in place. How can we determine without seeing the pictures?

I think the reason they said there was no glue, was to keep anyone from saying, if there was glue, then the fabric should have been protected.

By the way, Thanks for coming here and I am enjoying your post and your kindness.

Any one know exactly where the mystery hair was found?
Reading from the docs, not the news?
In the past 15 min I’ve read it was found on a piece of plastic, on the tape, in a disney bag, and on a piece of paper that supposedly fell of the gatoraide bottle.
grrrrr…The media drives me crazy!!

damagdpets, Did you see the video of the interrogation of Casey when she was first taken to the station? I think that was the worse piece of police work I have ever seen. Forgive me I don’t recall the det’s name without research. The det showed his annoyance with Casey and would not allow her to talk. I would think with good police work one would want the suspect to talk, talk, talk.

I understand being annoyed talking to a suspect that has just blatantly lied to you. Allowing personal feeling towards the suspect interfere with proper interrogation skills was another example of how badly this investigation was handled.

When Casey lawyered up that had to have caused heartburn for LE. Baez did a good job of shutting her off from LE. The State started their campaign to debase not only Casey but her attorney from the early days of the investigation.

A media hate frenzy started with the help or at least the tolerance from LE in allowing that lynch mob to publicly gather on the street in front of the Anthony home. The unfounded leak about the heart sticker on the duct tape dropped norempoison in the jury well. I still read or hear every day some comment about the heart sticker that still flames the emotions.

I think the prosecution needs muscle and emotion for a fair trail. I haven’t seen the muscle yet but there is more than enough emotion to possibly get a conviction. We have seen emotion carry verdicts before. I just hope any verdict reached is based on sound evidence and beyond reasonable doubt. Seeing the history of some trials in FLa and reading of the hatred to Casey, her family, her legal team and anyone who is affiliated with the defense makes this case a nail biter.

When it comes to LE interviewing KC…I said from the beginning that their line of questioning was more self served about their back rounds than letting KC talk. They got KC to nod her head a lot but no explanation. Their questioning technique was one of three most commonly used…..it’s too bad there were no results.

damagdpets, it has a long time since I watched the interview and my memory of that event was more from my impression than the actual details. My impression was he strong handed her and did not let her continue to talk because he was offended and insulted with the run around she had given him about her job. I believe he had no inkling of what was to come from this case at that time. I speculate he may have believed that she had turned her child over to someone that she was protecting. He may have thought to heavy hand her would break her into telling him what she done with the baby.

As I have stated I believe the investigation was poorly handled from the get go. I also understand how that happened. Of course he had reason to mistrust anything she said and the stench in her car was reason for grave alarm. I don’t know how much he knew at the time of the details of when the car was parked or towed and the bag full of garbage, flies and maggots.

My criticism of LE was the formation of their theory that seemed to drive the case to the exclusion of any other possibilities. I think LE tried to find and make the evidence fit their initial theory rather than letting the evidence help them explore other possibilities.

LE some erroneous info was leaked to the media to try to poison the well before they even had the forensic evidence back from the labs. It is not the first time that law LE has become so overzealous and passoniate enough to become tunnel visioned about a working case. This can be especially true when it involves a missing child. I think some of what was done and said by LE will come to bite them where they sit.

Admittingly, my opinions are based on my belief there is much more to this story than what we know to date.

Hi! One thing that really irks me, is the convoluted ‘misstatement’ that since Cindy is a nurse; she would know the smell of decomp! That is the most irresponsible ‘mistruth’ of this case!!! Nurses can be aware of the smell of ‘gangrene’; ‘pseudomonous’; ‘ecoli; or any number of other ‘infectious’ malodors but ‘human decomp’ should never be one of the ‘smells’ associated within a hospital, a clinic, or an assisted living setting! If a ‘nurse’ is ‘used’ to the smell of decomp; then what type of nurse is she (or he)!!! I’ve been in the medical field over 40 years and personally worked in the ER beside the coroner when ‘dead bodies’ were brought in to be pronounced. (plane crash, gunshot, arrow to the chest, garroted, strangulation, carbon monoxide poisoning, burnt in house fire, drug overdose, motorvehicle wreck, drowning etc.) I’ve NEVER smelt ‘human decomp! I have smelt the malodor of decomping cattle and that odor never leaves one! What I’m trying to explain is that the smell of decomp is expressed in several days and a nurse would ‘never’ experience that particular smell unless she/he actually came across a body ‘in situ’.

Strikedlightening-Great comment, and ever so true!!! It’s funny how the Anthony family and my family must be the only ones in America to ever use ridiculous similes to over express our opinions. I can’t say that Cindy Anthony has never smelled human decomposition, but I can only say for myself, that having worked in a medical setting, I saw lots of death, but never smelled decomposition. You don’t generally leave bodies lying around long enough to smell putrification. Furthermore, I guess since, I myself, have used ridiculous similies or phrases to express extremem emotions, I didn’t take the “it smells like there’s been a dead body in the d*mned car” statement uttered by Cindy as a literal explanation of the smell. Yes, it was an excited utterance, but don’t we all do that? I don’t even have to be in a state of panic to do it. I can just be angry…..or happy or whatever.
Which coincidentally leads me to an unrelated point……regarding Casey referring to Caylee as “the little snothead”. The “Casey is guilty” crowd have taken that statement as a horrid reflection of Casey’s desire to be rid of her child. If that’s the case, I am just as guilty. I always used silly names for my kids when they did something funny or aggrivating. The names were so ridiculous that no one could have taken them seriously. For example, I might say to my daughter who colored the wall, “you little turd, why’d you do that?” I didn’t REALLY believe my daughter was feces…..nor did I wish any harm or disaster on her. I didn’t want her to be gone from my life. I was simply using a statement that was so ridiculous that it turned a frustrating situation into something funny. I have seen multiple movies, sitcoms, etc, where people use names like “snothead”, “snotface”, “boogar”, etc on kids, so up until the media told us that doing such was indicitave of murderous rage, I thought they were normal. Guess I have a lot to learn.
I loved your comment lightning!

Good Afternoon Everyone,
Strikedlightening, I agree with you as to Cindy’s excited utterance..Good Nurses don’t know the smell of human decomp..lol Unless they work in the morgue and that’s only iF there is a need for a nurse in the morgue. Enough said.
On that premise, I’m perplexed as to why the State felt it necessary to put forth a motion to allow this at trial because this statement is in GA’s interview. He’s told the detectives, he knew THAT SMELL. Coming from GA, X-homicide detective, he would know, IMO.
So what was the purpose of the motion to compel this utterance from Cindy?

Omar,
You’re right.. I think we’ve all used names for our beloved children that could be misconstrued into something evil. I never understood the general opinion that this name proved she despised Caylee. Totally ridiculous. What the media failed to mention is she also told Tony R. that “Caylee came first” but that statement isn’t up for discussion.
Obviously the media has played a big part in the Hate Casey Campaign. IIRC, it was WFTV who headlined that online message. I blame them for inciting most of the hatred for Casey and her family.

I think the reason that “misstatement” is bantered around so much is that Cindy herself stated during one of her many media interviews that she was ” a nurse of decomposition”. Not sure what that is, but I believe that most nurses are not familiar with the odour of decomposition.

Hi Monica, sorry I just wanted to correct that statement. Cindy is always misquoted about that and it’s one of my pet peeves. She actually said it like this: “I know the smell…..(I’m a nurse)…of decomposition”.

I’ll just add to the smell. I have remarked “O God, it smells like something dead, I hope it is not somebody.” This kind of remark goes with life and what Cindy said did not mean anything more than “phew”! “what the hell” “smells like a dead body” It amazes me how people are so ready to make what someone says, exactly what they want it to be and mean. Since her remark was long before Caylee was found to be dead and I do not read that it is “proven” Caylee’s body was in the trunk of that car. That being said I am not throwing out the “possibility”, just that I think Cindy spoke as most anyone is likely to do about “anykind’ of unpleasant odor and stop accusing Cindy of “knowing” Caylee was dead because of the smell. Good golly miss Mollie,
I’m with you guys, give Cindy a break. Don’t forget this same woman did make the 911 call. So if she believed Caylee was dead and her body had been in that car, would she have done that? I don’t know, but I don’t think so.

Having read through several postings, I certainly respect the level of civility on this site (compared to others devoted to this case), as well as the adherence to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty.

That said, guys, come on. If it was merely the garbage that smelled so bad, why didn’t Casey just throw it out long before? I’m sure to this you’d argue that the garbage only began to stink after she’d abandoned the car. To which I would say, then whey did she start texting about the smell of “dead squirrels” BEFORE she’d abandoned the car? Clearly, her car started to smell long before the garbage did (because smelly garbage she could’ve thrown out). So to believe in her innocence, one would have to believe that, in the days following the “disappearance” of her little girl, two separate odorous calamities befell her car (dead squirrels, rotten garbage), both very similar to the smell of human decomposition (or so the defense would have us believe), but neither caused by the body of her daughter, who by the way was found dead down the street from her house. Are we REALLY supposed to believe such a cosmically unlucky coincidence?

If it was just this one coincidence, perhaps. But factor in the 31 days, the phone records and text messages and deposition testimony that strongly suggest Casey was doing everything EXCEPT trying to find the daughter she claims was abducted, by a nanny who worked for free, who Casey needed to watch Caylee while she worked a job she didn’t have. If you’ll pardon the expression, it just doesn’t pass the sniff test.

Again, I admire the respect posters give each other here, and the sympathy shown for Casey’s family (who, while unlikeable, have suffered enough). But really, the intellectual gymnastics some of you are performing just to begin TRYING to refute each piece of evidence (let alone the totality of it all) are at odds with what otherwise appears to be a reasonable set of minds here.

I understand the concept of a mother killing her beautiful two year-old daughter is inconceivable, and for that reason you want to believe there HAS to be something more to the story. However, the inconceivable nature of such a crime is based on what we all know of a mother’s love, as shown in its most desperate moments when we see how mothers react when their children go missing for so much as five minutes. Now contrast that behavior to Casey’s, over the course of 31 days, a period of time that would’ve been who knows how much longer had her mother not finally called 911. And you see that Casey was not a mother in the sense that we all know one to be. Once you see that, you see that she was capable of committing the inconceivable. And sadly, she did.

Anyway, thanks for the arena to post my thoughts on this. And for being a place of calm and reason amidst the storm of all the other sites.

Great post. I agree with you, although I’m in the VAST minority around here. I’m a firm believer in Occam’s Razor, and sadly, mothers DO kill their children more often than one would want to imagine. To me, if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it’s probably not a conspiracy theory.

Hello Unreasonable. I do see where you are coming from, but there is no proof that Caylee was in the trunk of the car. The one hair with “deathbanding” was tested, but he lab worker specified that she could not say for certain that it was from a dead body. Also, if you read through the evidence, there are no trunk fibers found with the remains nor the clothes. What there is is a lot of creative interpretation by the media. Maybe Casey DID kill her daughter. But thus far, I haven’t seen evidence to prove that Casey had a hand in it. I’ve seen evidence that she was partying, getting tattoos, stealing money, and sleeping around. But those things don’t translate into murder. I think that most here would agree that while the evidence is vast, none provides the link that you would think would point directly to Casey. We just like to keep our minds open to the possibility that Casey, perhaps, did drop her child off with someone and party her butt off, thinking that she would get her child back. We aren’t saying Casey isn’t guilty of poor judgement. We aren’t saying she isn’t somehow implicit in the events surrounding this crime. We are only saying that what the media has touted as “smoking gun” evidence, when examined, is NOT smoking gun evidence. LE formed an opinion early on and have tried very hard to make it all point to Casey. When you look at the evidence, there is a lot of room for explanations outside of Casey Anthony as the killer. Just my opinion. And I respect your opinion.

UnreasonableDoubt
said
“And you see that Casey was not a mother in the sense that we all know one to be. nce you see that, you see that she was capable of committing the inconceivable. And sadly, she did.”
___________________________________________________________________________________

You forgot to say IMO 🙂

So you firmly believe Caylee was in her trunk, which is a logical belief and that fine.
I’m up in the air with that one myself.
But there is nothing so far that could make me think for a second Casey was capable of intentionally harming her daughter.
Casey was the typical young single mother living at home sponging off her parents.
Casey provided Caylee with love & attention, Cindy provided food clothes and a roof.
Big woopty deal if Casey didn’t want to work, and if Cindy wasn’t the enabler then Casey would steal before she let Caylee go hungry.

I think the reason I can easily believe there is a logical explanation for everyone of Caseys actions is because I myself am a young mom with some not so normal aquaintances.

For instance my friends mom died in a car wreck when she was 19,
within days after her death my friend went buck wild, drinking beam and partying every night, pulling trains with who ever was willing. This went on for several months before she finally pulled herself together.

Then another friends mom died of cancer when she was 22 , she had a 4 yr old son, whom she left at his other grand parents for close to a year. Seeing him once a week or so.
(before her moms death she was an excellent mom, never got a sitter, never told ridiculous lies , never touched drugs or alcohol)
Anyways she started going to bars nightly, drinking from the moment she woke up,
taking xanax and perscription pain meds by the handful.
I tried to help her cope but she was out of control, out of her mind.
I would not give her a ride any where that would contribute to her drinking or drugs and lectured her non stop .
She called me one morning about a week after her mom passed and told me an insurance check had come in the mail for like $60,000 and she wanted me to take her to the bank and she wanted my name to be on the account so she could not withdrawl unless I was there so she wouldn’t blow through it wasting it way.
Well I go get her and we are headed to the bank and then she is like oh I need to run by so and sos house for a second for a reason I do not remember, well she comes out 20 min or so later totally messed up on I’m not sure what.
Well to make a long story short, there was no check and her crazy lies continued and eventually got so bad I quit associating with her for several years.
She has her son back and is off drugs, but the girl lies non stop about anything and everything for no good reason.

One more instance here,
About 10 years ago, my husbands (fiance at the time) best friend would come to our house and hang out while he was supposed to be at work, (this went on for months) they’d play ping pong , pool or playstation.
He’d go out to his truck and get his bagged lunch and thermous and sit there and eat it. (where his mom had packed him a lunch for work)
It was unbelievabley ridiculous! So sad but almost funny.
I felt bad for his mom but the guy was in his 20s living at home and being handed LOTS of money daily by his parents for one lie after another.
It continues to this day and the guy is in his early 30s.
He’s also a theif so he’s not allowed in my home.
He is one of several pathelogical liars I know.

My point being,
Casey was not SO unusual, and not a single person I have spoke about, would harm their children, I do think a couple would react in a similar manner if somthing happened to their child and they were in any way at fault. Lie and deny and lie some more.
====================
Hi IndyGal,
I have to admit in my younger days, I had a few friends who were similar to those you described. I have friends from both ends of the spectrum.. Doctors, accountants, a few lawyers and then there’s a few who have been locked up for various things, one still is, but no violent crimes…but just made bad decisions.
I think this is where Casey fits in. She’s made some bad decisions and she lies to cover them up. It’s a habit for her.
I’m not a trained psychologist so I’m not going to pretend to have Casey’s psychological make-up all figured out and tied up with a pretty bow. I don’t have that to offer. All I have is life experience and my own personal judgment which I rely to keep me on the straight and narrow..I falter but I always find my way back on course.
IndyGal,
One of your friends you described fit one of my friends to a tee and as a matter of fact she is the same Zodiac sign as Casey, Pisces. She was a beautiful girl. Most of the girls at school hated her because all the boys liked her. She was promiscuous and could take any of the boyfriends she wanted. She’d give them back when she was done. I was one of her few friends because I don’t like to be mean to people unless they’ve hurt me and she never did for the 20yrs I knew her. She died a few years ago but OMG, the life she lived!
When I see Casey, I see “Trina”. In high school, while most kids were riding to school on school buses and with Mom, Trina was driving a Lincoln Continental at 16yo that she parked around the corner so her mother wouldn’t see it. How did Trina get this car? She was a call girl for 1/2 of Orleans parish Court house.
Why is it so hard to think that KC didn’t have enemies? Why is so hard to imagine that maybe it was Caylee’s Daddy’s family that was watching Caylee? I’m not saying KC was as smart as Trina because she was a smart girl IMO. While the young girls in school were giving their virtue to horny high school boys Trina was getting a new car, cash, nice clothes and she parked where ever she wanted because she knew a lot of cops. Kudos to her.
So no, KC is not nearly as smart. She should have been looking for winners not losers. She had a baby to think about..no excuse for that but she doesn’t show any signs of being a murderer. There is NO evidence of violence in her past. She’s not a fighter. If she did kill Caylee, there’s no way she’d stick around Orlando to face the consequences.
I wrote an article on this subject “Parody of phone call to Cindy” How was she going to lie to Cindy about Caylee for years to come?
I’m off on another tangent?? Sorry, I seem to be doing that a lot lately?? LOL
Anyway, that is one of the reasons why I don’t think Casey killed her daughter.
JB

Testing 123. For some reason my computer seems to have forgotten my name.
====================== Hi TS ::waving::
You’re okay on my end? I don’t see a problem with your comment but I had to check to be sure because I’ve had a couple of my own comments that were held by spam control so anything is possible.
Please come back and try again,
Thanx,
JB

Omar: I don’t dispute your take on the forensic evidence from the trunk (though I think “consistent with” is a little more damning than you’re giving it credit for). I’ll go so far as to say that I’ve seen no forensic evidence yet that proves beyond a reasonable doubt that Casey murdered her child. HOWEVER, I’ve also seen no forensic evidence that conclusively points to someone else. And unfortunately for Casey, she needs some, because the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming. Yes, the forensic proof that Caylee was in the trunk of that car may be debatable. But the unmistakable smell that trained noses recognized (her own father, for crying out loud), the fact she tried to keep her family away from the car as long as she could, the fact she decided she’d rather abandon it than take her chances filling it up with gas and continuing to drive it, all point to someone who at one time had hidden her dead daughter in her trunk. To me, her lame text messages about “dead squirrels” tell a very damning story: she killed her daughter, and put her in the trunk until she could figure out what to do with the body. Unfortunately, it started to smell sooner than she’d anticipated, and worse, the smell didn’t go away even after she’d disposed of the body. And so she had to start laying the groundwork for why her car smelled so bad, before someone (like Amy H) inevitably got in the car with her. Ultimately, though, she decided that her best play was to abandon the car, and hope it got stolen. I know this is my opinion, but I think it’s shared by the majority of people who’ve followed this case. And I think in the absence of a VERY GOOD EXPLANATION, the jury will feel the same way. And that’s just dealing with the car smell alone.

Indygal: You and I are not so very different. No, I’m not a young mother, but I know lots of them, many single (like Casey), and also know a great many unusual acquaintances. And while I can certainly appreciate your own experiences, I’d point out your examples of “ugly coping” (so to speak) deal with people who’ve lost their parents. I, too, know many people who lost their parents, even suddenly, who in the aftermath went a little crazy. However, I think you’d agree that the loss of a two year-old child is something altogether different. I know of no one who, even when they can’t locate their small child for a few moments, doesn’t go into full-fledged panic mode. And those people I know who’ve lost their children to illness (and I know a few), and they will never be the same. Even if we give Casey the benefit of the doubt and believe some semblance of her changing stories, then she either gave Caylee to someone she trusted or had her stolen away from her. But after this, Casey didn’t change her behavior at all. She kept going to Fusian, like she did before. She kept texting all her friends nonstop, just like before. She kept seeing Tony and stringing other guys along, just like before. And while all that sounds not so damning, think about that: the acquaintances you cite all became, by your account, scarily different people for a time after losing loved ones, until finally they were able to pull it together. But according to her friends, her text messages, and her photos, Casey didn’t change at all. And while theoretically I guess you could say maybe that’s because she thought Caylee was in the care of someone she trusted, wouldn’t Casey have stopped protecting this person by now? Certainly, she has no reason to fear what this person could do anymore, since the worst case has happened, and Caylee was murdered. Not only that, she’s sitting in jail for a crime this person committed, that crime being the murder of her beloved daughter. Yet her jailhouses letters speak of boys and crushes, and religion and RVs, and her father and brother the alleged molesters. Not a word, though, about the villain who killed her daughter and framed her for the crime. And if you’re thinking that she and her attorneys are waiting for trial to finally tell the truth, why take their chances with a death-qualified jury in a pro-prosecution state? That’s assuming that her defense team could even get away with such a tactic, since the rules of discovery and the taking of depositions pretty much preclude “gotcha” moments out of Perry Mason. Bottom line, if they want the jury to believe someone else did it, Casey’s going to have to explain the hidden meaning behind her story about a nanny whom no one ever met and she didn’t need, nor had the money to pay for.

It’s good to hear opposing views, though. And I have to admit, those of you who are willing to give Casey the benefit of the doubt are better people than I am. In my eyes, she is at best a freeloading, pathological liar who stole from her friends and family, and who didn’t let the disappearance or accidental death of her toddler interfere with her social life. Not someone I would hitch my “fair trial” cause wagon to. Part of the reason I actually admire Jose Baez somewhat (assuming he hasn’t tried to tamper with witnesses): he’s working his butt off to defend someone who has almost no redeeming qualities, and who even he has to suspect had a hand in her own daughter’s death. In short, he’s doing what he took an oath to do. And you gotta respect that.

Unreasonable…..I totally understand why you believe the way you do. Things do not look good for Casey. I guess, though, that’s why some lawyers are prosecutors and others are defense attorneys. LOL. It’s all about the view, right? Anyway, nice to read your thoughts.

Thanks, Omar. And, truth be told, in my kinder moments I actually feel a little bad for Casey. Even if she’s guilty, I don’t think she hatched some evil plot to kill her daughter, and carefully laid the “Zanny” groundwork over a period of months. I think she found herself in a bad place in life (with an assist to her enablers), events spiraled, and in a series of runaway circumstances she killed her daughter. I’m sure she regrets it now. I’m also sure that, in her own way, she loved Caylee. Just a sad, sad story.

Unreasonable, you have a big heart and I like reading your take on things. I don’t think she was smart enough to hatch a plan like this and not get caught. It may turn out in the end that you are exactly right. Either way, though, like you, I find it easy to have compassion. Not that I don’t think she should be punished for whatever her role is….the law is the law. But I’m just not out for blood. No matter what the verdict is, I’ll carry on in my own life just the same way I did before. I just can’t stand how people call her names and put her family through hell. They may not be likable to some, but I feel sorry for them. I hope I’m right about this, but I am willing to acknowledge that you may be the one who’s right. I guess I’m still rootin’ for the underdog! LOL.

What I should have said is that I don’t think she was smart enough to hatch a plan like that without leaving definitive evidence. So far, there is a lot of circumstancial evidence, but nothing that links her to the crime scene. Not even any soil on her shoes or the car that match the crime scene. You have to be one careful criminal to be that good at committing a crime. And I just can’t bring myself to believe that Casey is a criminal mastermind.

I can’t say that any man was responsible for Caylee’s death but I do believe that several men had/were using Casey (she willing participated) and when she began to seriously look to Tony Lazzaro (sp) for a life and he rejected her and Caylee for anything permanent that she very likely spiraled into a mix of disappointment, hurt, resentment, anger, perhaps a drug, no sleep, a crying baby, parent’s demands that she be more responsible (after 2 years of freebies) IF I say IF, she did kill Caylee, I have never seen it as a plan of premeditated murder. I see an overload, perhaps a spontaneous smack followed by panic. I’ve stated it all along, she had no plan to try to get away as in a “premediated” murder. I am willing to accept the outcome of the trial, provided in all respects both sides have been professional and the jury has been given true facts, facts, Not Looks Likes. Under any circumstances there is no reward nor satisfaction that Casey get the death penalty. I do not believe it should have ever been placed to begin with in this case. I do not think Casey despised anyone enough to want to kill Caylee. No I don’t! Enough of my bla bla for one day, lol

Just a quick comment. I have been an ER Nurse for over 20 years and I have smelled human decomp many times. As an ER nurse, it was part of our continuing ed requirements that we ride along with EMS for a prescribed number of hours. Over the years, I have seen people hanging for several days (in Arizona), GSW victims in a car in the desert, etc. So it is entirely possible (altho improbable) that sometime in Cindy’s career she smelled a decomposing body.
Back to lurking

Ooops, I decided to re-post my comment to IndyGal since I see now most are on the same topic. Thank you Unreasonable Doubt. You certainly seem reasonable, unlike some who have posted here in CAPS along with derogatory attacks. 😀
Refreshing and yes, I definitely understand your view and reasons for your vote of guilt. It’s not like we’ve never pondered the same evidence..lol I guess this is the real world and in the real world everyone perceives actions in different ways. For instance, when I see Casey dancing at Fusion’s Nightclub I don’t see a woman who’s just killed her daughter, I see a woman who’s out dancing the night away because she thinks her daughter is safe. On that premise, it changes everything..so be it. Thanks for your comment.Hi IndyGal,
I have to admit in my younger days, I had a few friends who were similar to those you described. I have friends from both ends of the spectrum.. Doctors, accountants, a few lawyers and then there’s a few who have been locked up for various things, one still is, but no violent crimes…but just made bad decisions.
I think this is where Casey fits in. She’s made some bad decisions and she lies to cover them up. It’s a habit for her.
I’m not a trained psychologist so I’m not going to pretend to have Casey’s psychological make-up all figured out and tied up with a pretty bow. I don’t have that to offer. All I have is life experience and my own personal judgment which I rely to keep me on the straight and narrow..I falter but I always find my way back on course.
IndyGal,
One of your friends you described fit one of my friends to a tee and as a matter of fact she is the same Zodiac sign as Casey, Pisces. She was a beautiful girl. Most of the girls at school hated her because all the boys liked her. She was promiscuous and could take any of the boyfriends she wanted. She’d give them back when she was done. I was one of her few friends because I don’t like to be mean to people unless they’ve hurt me and she never did for the 20yrs I knew her. She died a few years ago but OMG, the life she lived!
When I see Casey, I see “Trina”. In high school, while most kids were riding to school on school buses and with Mom, Trina was driving a Lincoln Continental at 16yo that she parked around the corner so her mother wouldn’t see it. How did Trina get this car? She was a call girl for 1/2 of Orleans parish Court house.
Why is it so hard to think that KC didn’t have enemies? Why is so hard to imagine that maybe it was Caylee’s Daddy’s family that was watching Caylee? I’m not saying KC was as smart as Trina because she was a smart girl IMO. While the young girls in school were giving their virtue to horny high school boys Trina was getting a new car, cash, nice clothes and she parked where ever she wanted because she knew a lot of cops. Kudos to her.
So no, KC is not nearly as smart. She should have been looking for winners not losers. She had a baby to think about..no excuse for that but she doesn’t show any signs of being a murderer. There is NO evidence of violence in her past. She’s not a fighter. If she did kill Caylee, there’s no way she’d stick around Orlando to face the consequences.
I wrote an article on this subject “Parody of phone call to Cindy” How was she going to lie to Cindy about Caylee for years to come?
I’m off on another tangent?? Sorry, I seem to be doing that a lot lately?? LOL
Anyway, that is one of the reasons why I don’t think Casey killed her daughter.
JBhttps://thejbmission.wordpress.com/2010/04/05/parody-of-tape-conversation-between-cindy-casey-anthony/

Boy, I should stay away more, so much good activity here. Hi, Unreasonable Doubt. I just wanted to say that Casey did try to retrieve her car after Amy helped her get a gas can but it had been towed by then. Amy hadn’t been near her car during that time so there was no reason to make up a story to cover for a smell with her. Tony had been standing at her trunk, had ridden in her car, never smelled anything. George stood at the trunk, didn’t notice anything. I think it is reasonable that if garbage had been put in the trunk before being parked at Amscot, that 2 weeks in the Florida heat and humidity would be enough, given the right garbage, to create a smell considered that horrible. There was no food left in the packages but the maggots were allowed to eat, grow and bread, thus the destruction of evidence. I certainly hope someone would test the bugs for human dna but so far nothing mentioned. As for the so called sign of decomposition on the one hair found, the report doesn’t say what the sign was. Other sources say it was the dark banding but everything I read says that that only shows up about 90 + PMI and short PMI is normal to yellow banding. I’ll be interested to hear exactly what the sign of decomp was. But, she did say in an email that she would be more willing to say it actually was not simply an anomaly and really was a hair from a deceased person if there were more than one found.

One very important point, there is no evidence clearly left by Casey on Suburban drive but there is evidence of someone else left behind. There is an unidentified hair and there is a partial DNA fragment that can not be Casey or Caylee. That is strong physical evidence that Casey is not guilty, IMO and I’m sure the defense will focus on that. Of course, we haven’t seen the report on the bag and shorts yet either.

Hey there Zuben!
As always, nice to see you. I agree with the physical evidence..nothing really points directly to Casey. The lone hair is a long shot. As you pointed out, usually there’s more than one hair for comparison before an expert well deem it belonged to the victim. So I’m not sure if only one hair will mean much since there is no proof that Casey’s car wasn’t used by anyone else besides Tony Lazarro although I may have missed this in discovery.
Don’t be a stranger Zub 😀 Thanks,
JB

> Caucasian head hair, light/med. brown, apparent decomp – DARK BAND, no tissue present. 9 inches long.
* Similar to the Caucasian head hair found in specimen Q-15, but a more meaningful conclusion can not be reached. K2. Hair from hair mat, apprx. 6 inches long. Some strands were 6-7 inches long – medium brown.<

George Anthony: "The person that was in that trunk is not my granddaughter".

How can hair with apparent signs of decomp, be longer than hair found with the remains, and, described as a different shade of brown?

Indygal, my question is what happens after hair falls off your head as to decomposition. Doesn’t hair breakdown and decompose at some time after it falls from the body.

Hair is not necessarily one shade of color on the head. I could also see that hair from the same head could have different lenghts depending on what part of the head it came from. Example could be a strand of bangs to longer strand from the top of the head.

Am I correct assuming your comments regarding the hair came as a quote from the FBI lab notes? If so, my interpretation of the comment that a more meaningful conclusion could not be reached as very meaningful. Most Caucasian medium/light brown hair is similar, so the use of the word similar tells nothing.

Having the actual mat of hair from the recovery site to use as a comparison to the hair found in the trunk should have created a more meaningful conclusion or a possible match. Was there any so called death bands found on the mat of hair on the skull and how did that compare to the appearance of the hair found in trunk.

I am not drilling you with my questions/ I am asking these questions as something I am wondering about. I have read the death bandthat determines whether the hair came from a deceased person takes approximately 90 days to form.

My comments are regarding the hair found in the trunk and the mat of hair on the skull. I don’t recall all the details of the mystery hair found with remains .There is question of exactly where it was found with or on the remains. IIRC that hair is around 5in long and I don’t recall color. I am hoping you have more info or recall of the hair evidence.

Hi Mac and everyone…..I don’t remember the exact way the 5″ hair was described, but I believe the evidence number for the hair is Q107 and it was released into discovery somewhere around April 2009. I could be mistaken on the date of release…it could be April 2010, but I’m positive about the evidence number. Sorry I don’t have any more details right now. I gotta run, but I will look later and see if I can find it.

Indygal, thanks for that page number. There have been a couple of times there were pdfs I couldn’t get and that page number is included, I believe. My ISP isn’t always consistent with the connection and I couldn’t get that 300mg file. I’m trying again on another computer to see if that works. This is the first I’ve actually seen the words, dark band. Now, they had a lot of hair to determine all the various lengths of Caylee’s hair, including the length of her bangs, which would have only been a few inches long. To find a hair that is longer than any of the hair found with the skull is clearly contradicting the idea that the hair in the trunk was Caylee’s. If it did, in fact have a sign of decomposition and it was longer than any of Caylee’s hair it could not be hers. I don’t believe the hair continues to grow when the body shuts down.

Mac, I read the same thing. The hair in question was mentioned on Pg 9587, head hair recovered from Q107, the collection paper from 2 pieces of black plastic, not belonging to Caylee or the Anthony family or the CSI that had access to the crime scene and evidence. I believe the plastic was part of the black trash bags but haven’t gone back to double check that fact. See also pg 11476 and 11491

Conway is the one that released the page on this lone hair found at the remains scene and the partial DNA. Those pages were conviently left out of the release to the public and media which to me, is a huge red flag. Baez must have given it to them to balance the scales just a little bit. That was the end of September 2009.

PS, I just downloaded the latest Adobe reader, version 10 and it is really cool. You can add sticky notes or comments and save them. I wish I’d had this in 2008.

Thanks Zuben and Omar for the responses. I too have noticed that pieces of the released discovery from the State is not always made public by the media. If Kathi Belich et al of WFTV is obtaining and releasing the docs, that is an explanation of possible selective reporting. She is the sensationalism mouth piece of the State in my observation.

I think Baez has done a somewhat good job of “balancing the scales”. I think some of his motions, that he likely expects to be denied, presents some good argument and the forced release of undeniable forensic info that the some media sources would skip over.

Conway was the one that made a big slash that the duct tape backing on the remains were inconsistent to the gas can. I am looking forward to the State’s response to the defense motion to exclude the phantom heart residue on the duct tape. I wonder how the State argues to bring in it when the FBI admits there was no evidence of this residue. If there had been a heart shaped sticker on the tape that left residue then there should have been a sticker found somewhere in the plastic bag that housed the remains.

For those that have much more info than I do, was the inference of a heart sticker on the duct tape used in obtaining a search warrant for the Anthony house immediately after discovery of remains?

Mac, The heart shaped sticker may or may not have been on the duct tape but the fact remains the sticker was found with the immediate evidence surrounding Caylee which makes it evidence. The common theme among defense strategy is to have as much “evidence” thrown out before trial or legal objection through testimony at trial.
If memory serves me the search warrant was based on several pieces of evidence found at the crime scene and a warrant was issued to search the Anthony home for objects, for comparison. The garbage bag, laundry bag, clothes, personal items for DNA and yes heart stickers. They would not have searched originally because they did not know Caylee was put into the bags and knew nothing about duct tape. To search for specific things you have to have probable cause to get a warrant. Often times evidence is thrown out because it was beyond the scope of a warrant. I think LE did things by the numbers. I’m not saying they are perfect in light they are held to a higher standard but who is?

The duct tape evidence is not all there yet. There are still pieces that came from the shed that I have not seen in discovery yet. The last report by Surety is 95% and in a court of law goes a long ways, naturally it will be questioned.

Kathi Belich….the reporter everyone loves to hate. I don’t know if anyone else has noticed but the majority of the reporting and posting of docs has come from WESH and CFnews13.
It seems that WFTV has slowed way down on buying doc dumps. For those that don’t know, the docs have to be bought, they are not free. The reason is because LE has to go through to redact info and charge a fee as well as a copying fee. This is a little frustrating because there are docs that have been released but not bought so we won’t get to see them. They are also made available to the public if someone wanted to put up the money. In the Haleigh Cummings case there are about $2500.00 worth of material that the media did not want to pay for. Bloggers tried to figure out a way to come up with the money but to date it has not happened.

A comment about discovery being released (if I can finally get my computer to cooperate). I discovered that most media pick and choose what they want to have released. The ONLY way I have been able to see everything is by going to the WS website where musicman provides everything as he goes to the courthouse himself to get it. I try to download everything so that I have hard copies. You should see my computer room! No room for anything else here anymore!

I want to clarify a comment my husband made above (let’s see if he chases me around the house for posting:) he had to leave for the day so I will know tonight!

I followed the HaLeigh Cummings case for some time, and in the last doc dumps (jail visits and conversations) that were made available summer 2010, the media had lost interest, so none of those tapes have been released. The cost for the material we wanted to see was 5K not 2500. All info must be reviewed for any redactment that may be necessary, so the greatest cost was to pay for an officer’s time of reviewing and redacting all info prior to dissemination. In the past the cost was shared by the local media outlets and then the cost for someone like Simon Barrett of BNN was 5 dollars per CD. Altho the Sunshine Law does make this info available to the public, there is a cost associated with obtaining the documents. I would really like to have access to the latest Cumming/Croslin info, however certainly not for $5,000. Some of the regular bloggers wanted to put our funds together and purchase the CD’s, however they must be picked up in person from the local LE, and no one lived remotely close…. It is frustrating when you know there is more information just sitting in an office and no method to obtain it!

Thank you, just wanted to clarify the cost issue.. Have a great afternoon!!

To add to TS’s comments, I am talking strictly jail house visits and telephone calls. Not court docs that are available thru the court house, I may be incorrect, however not all docs in an investigation are available without redactment, it depends specifically on the type document/material.. I think 🙂

Thorazine Shuffle,
PS: Absolutely, the media picks and chooses what documents to post. And we all know the ones that they like..LOL
So it’s true, just because we don’t see it, it doesn’t mean it’s not there.
Very good point.

Zoe
February 12, 2011 at 2:20 pm # Hi D–
I completely agree that a plan was hatched THAT NIGHT (the 15th). If I recall, even some of the precise phrasing was used on each person’s initial written statement to LE. That June 9th date has always troubled me. Were the Ants trying to imply that Caylee’s “disappearance” was related to Nicole Ganguzza’s June 8th murder at Blanchard Park??! What a sick and diseased family of liars.
BTW, I tried to offer you some support on past threads when I saw you unfairly attacked by a few of the “mission” freaks. Their words were very uncalled for, as your posts about the Ants were totally justified!
Just a little warning from someone who knows what lays beneath the surface of JBMission. Take it or leave it….but the blog’s owner is pretty frighteningly UNHINGED and a loose cannon in more ways than one. A very reliable source informed me that she and a few others are largely responsible for some very incindiary, aggressive and cruel activities/tactics lodged against some pro-Caylee and pro-Judge Perry advocates. It’s not simple “Freedom of Speech” with these people. What lurks under the surface of “harmless debate” is a very dangerous and illegal small group of individuals DIRECTLY tied into the defense. These are desperate defense lawyers employing desperate (and cruel) diversionary tactics. Thankfully, I have not been on anyone’s target radar as I avoid any kind of footprint over there and the other places I have seen them in action. My source is 100% certain about the links between Cindy, Jose and certain “bloggers”.
So…long story short…..stay safe and well!
For everyone involved in Caylee’s justice—–remember that this is an unethical and dangerously desperate defense team and one heck of a vengeful/hateful woman (Cindy).
Peace!
===========================
Lie-ooza..
You are a liar!!! This site has NOTHING to do with the defense team. But I’m glad you posted here to say it so at least I can defend myself rather than this LIE spread like disease it is!!!

To ALL of the good people who comment here. I want to apologize for this distraction. Because that is EXACTLY what it is.
I’ll admit, I did get loose with moderation. I took pride in the fact that I could handle adversity and tried to continue to be calm and reasonable but I don’t think it’s possible.
It is becoming obvious to me, as we near May 11th, that some people are running scared. You who comment here know exactly what I’m talking about. We’ve hit a big fat nerve somewhere in blogosphere..
I like it!!
So I’m going to stop being so liberal with the content of comments towards everyone on this site which means I will have to tighten the latch on the door. The amount of comments on this site has NEVER been as important to me as the content of their message. So it’s going to stop today.
Thanks for All of your support,
Sincerely,
theJBMission

Wow Luiza-That particular song and dance has gotten old and stale. Your post sounds paranoid and quite frankly insane! We’ve been hearing that for two years now. If that’s true (and I do not believe it for a second) then take your suspicions and PROOF to LE and leave everyone else to post in peace! Or better yet, skedaddle back to Topix-there are plenty of like-minded people there who will pat your back and commiserate with your particular brand of crazy. Be sure you c/p a few posts to take with you, as conversation there can’t survive without someone to bash.

That one took me off guard, Sunshine! I think Luiza just copied and pasted something that someone else said on a different blog. Nevertheless, I know that I am not affiliated with the defense team, the Anthony family, the FBI, CIA, NAACP, ACLU, 4H, MMM or any other organization…..I just like to read about the case. Maybe Luiza was chuckling about that one too, or maybe she was pasting it here by way of inquiry, OR perhaps she is just trying to let JB et al know what is being said elsewhere. I didn’t me to sound offensive or mean to Luiza……I hope she knows that we are just regular folks, and that the difference of opinion that we share from the blood thirsty masses is what paints targets on our backs. BTW…..I have only been blogging HERE for about 2 weeks. I’ve been reading elsewhere for 2 1/2 years, and I can honestly say that there are other blogs that are WAY more likely to be “godfathered” behind the scenes by someone with an agenda. Not a one of them blog about the possibility that KC may be innocent, either.

You’re probably right Omar. I’ve lurked on the blogs for awhile now and I just get tired of hearing that kind of stuff. Luiza, I apologize if I have unfairly characterized you or misinterpreted your message. I read at several blogs and I do enjoy the different viewpoints but I don’t care about the behind the scenes drama. No amount of inflammatory posts or bombshell innuendos is going to change that. I just don’t care. I just want to read and discuss the case. I hear you on the blood thirsty masses-I’ve got a few battle scars of my own! 🙂

I know, Sunshine!! It’s ridiculous out there! There are some people I’d like to stuff a sock in their mouths (that’s totally incorrect grammar), and others whose keyboards I’d like to pee on. I have read different posters who feel one way on one blog, and a different way on different blogs. There’s even one guy on one blog that feels however everyone posting around him feels. I think he has PMS….and I KNOW he definitely likes to hear himself talk. It turns my stomach. I almost snotted when I read the post above, though. That got a belly laugh out of me. I know there are people who are ridiculous enough to believe something like that, but for the life of me, i can’t figure out what narcotic their mothers took during gestation.

LOL Omar! I used to think Casey was guilty but I’ve changed my mind after reading the documents. I fell into the trap of believing only what I read or heard in the media. I don’t really know what happened to Caylee, but I think there is enough evidence that points away from Casey and to someone else, to make me question the case as a whole. I’m too hard headed to care what everyone else thinks-I want to hear all sides and make up my own mind, in my own time. I don’t get changing your opinion just to fit in on a blog. What’s the point? Somebody on the internet will not like you?

Sunshine, you are my kind of person!!! I’m like you. I don’t care what anyone thinks of my opinion. I just can’t stand the drama. In my opinion, from the documents I’ve read, there is more than enough about this case to bring reasonable doubt, and as you said, point to somone else.

There are people who would believe that post. There are also people who get drunk on virtual martinis. But who am I to judge??? LOL. Garsh.

Omar…snipped form your comment….
I’ve been reading elsewhere for 2 1/2 years, and I can honestly say that there are other blogs that are WAY more likely to be “godfathered” behind the scenes by someone with an agenda. Not a one of them blog about the possibility that KC may be innocent, either.

I got involved from the beginning and have spent way too many hours on research and hate to admit it. There has been a mountain of information released.
I would like to know if you feel that either side has approached citizens to “throw” the case either way by means of blogging? We all know the media has field days with sensationalism.

I’m more of a lurker these days Omar. I have to remind myself that the whole purpose of trolling and posting info such as the above is to get an emotional response out of people. Sort of like Mubarak attempted to do to the Egyptian people. Make them angry and push them to violence so that he would have an excuse to use force and squash them and their ideas. We live and learn-

Damagd-that’s a great question. Like you, I have been reading and analyzing evidence released for far too long! In the beginning, I thought there would be a quick end to this, but, alas…here we are nearly 3 years later.

I can’t say that I’ve ever given much thought to whether either the defense or the prosecution/LE have ever approached anyone in the blogoshpere to have them tilt the case in favor of one side or the other. Truthfully, I feel like both the defense and the prosecution have been too busy to bother with it. I was taken aback to learn that Judge Strickland read the blogs about the case. I guess I wasn’t shocked that he would read them, but I was VERY shocked that he would approach a blogger in court to comment on his blog. But outside of Strickland, I haven’t given it much thought. The media usually always plays to sensationalism….and they don’t need anyone to nudge them toward that. Back in the day, the media used to really investigate and search for the facts without all the spin. Today, I seldom believe a thing I hear on the news.

But I digress. I guess my answer would have to be No. I don’t necessarily believe that either side has “plants” in the blog world to try and tilt the case in their favor. I think, like with football and baseball, people are able to pick a side to root for all on their own.

Damagd-my comment that you quoted above was simply intended to relay the fact that I think that anyone who would assume that this site is controlled and directly related to the defense with the intention of “throwing” the case should take a look around at some of the more hostile blogs out there. Many of the blogs out there are filled with brillant research, but I just can’t get past the obvious “hatred” of the Anthony family. To me, those sites are more likely to be on a smear campaign to “taint the jury pool” than is this one. That’s not saying that I think that they were set up by the prosecution or LE…..even though I see how you could have gotten that from my comment. I don’t think either side has had a hand in setting up blogs. Just my opinion.

Lie-ooza..
You are a liar!!! This site has NOTHING to do with the defense team. But I’m glad you posted here to say it so at least I can defend myself rather than this LIE spread like disease it is!!!

To ALL of the good people who comment here. I want to apologize for this distraction. Because that is EXACTLY what it is.
I’ll admit, I did get loose with moderation. I took pride in the fact that I could handle adversity and tried to continue to be calm and reasonable but I don’t think it’s possible.
It is becoming obvious to me, as we near May 11th, that some people are running scared. You who comment here know exactly what I’m talking about. We’ve hit a big fat nerve somewhere in blogosphere..
I like it!!
So I’m going to stop being so liberal with the content of comments towards everyone on this site which means I will have to tighten the latch on the door. The amount of comments on this site has NEVER been as important to me as the content of their message. So it’s going to stop today.
Thanks for All of your support,
Sincerely,
theJBMission

Omar & Sunshine,
Thank you! Thank you for supporting me and our effort to get to the truth. Kudos to All of you. ::hugs::

I know, right??? Luckily, I have my glasses on and can clearly see the insanity. And the other brilliant posters here can’t be fooled either. It’s so hard to keep out the riff raff these days, but we don’t have to make their visit comfortable, do we?

Hugs back at ya! JB, you are probably one of the few blogs left that actually still discusses evidence. There really are people, (scary, unstable people) who think they are doing some noble thing by shutting down conversations that don’t point to Casey, and Casey ONLY. It sounds like we all do get it.

Just as I respect Val’s right to control the postings and content on her blog, I think you deserve the same respect JB. I noticed NTS wasn’t bothered by being banned at Val’s and didn’t take it as a personal attack. Good for him/her. I personally like to read his posts so I’m glad he’s found a friendly place to post. Omar, I can only imagine the posts that JB has to moderate. Riff raff is probably way too kind lol.

It seems that anytime a flow of productive thoughts are displayed- something I call ‘static interruptus’ occurs! I’ve found that in my reading and studying of this case – a group of ‘revered’ persons have mounted a massive effort to dissipate any thoughts that point to someone or something else that could be the demise of this young child. This ‘bullying’ just makes me more ‘determined’ to find the TRUTH!!! Casey has lied and IMO so have others that she was running with-it ticks me off that an in-depth look into these ‘other (to me) persons of interest’ is not forgoing. A child is dead; her mother is facing the death penalty; her grandparents and uncle are verbally and virtually being besmirched and yet ‘those’ that Casey was ‘running’ with when this child disappeared are not displaying any accountability except to post on blogs and spread ‘rumors’ about the Anthony family. People are ‘trying’ to turn her so-called ‘friends’ into ‘saints’ and ‘heros’. This does not pass the ‘justified’ test! With everyone jumping on the ‘bandwagon of hate’ soon the wheels will break off. Where is the one friend to Casey that is ‘noble’ and wants the truth put forth as to what was going on in her life when her child disappeared?

Agree Striked. The bullying just makes me dig in harder. I’ve wondered if possibly some of the friends have been intimidated or are just plain scared to tell the truth? If Casey was scared of some unknown person(s) then it makes sense to me that the friends close to her may be scared too, IMO. Gotta add that IMO lol.

Striked, if I never read another post regarding the length of CA’s hair, the status of their marriage, or anything about LA unrelated to the facts of the case I’d be happy. I feel incredibly sorry for them myself. I have seen other places where it’s mentioned they may take legal action against some of the worst blogs and I hope they do. I could talk all day about how repulsive I find some of the comments made about them but I don’t want to derail this thread.

damagdpets, Thanks for the response regarding the heart sticker. You and I are talking about two different things regarding a heart found at site.

I am aware a”puffy” heart was found in the debris field around the remains site. I don’t believe this was considered a sticky heart like the ones found in the sticky book in the Anthony’s home.

The “puffy” heart appeared to be make from some type of plastic and was stuck on a piece of debris. I thought it was determined to be just part of the junk and was not believed to have any relevance to Caylee. Please correct me if I am wrong. Hopefully someone can direct us to a pic of the puffy heart found in debris. What I am trying to say is the “puffy” heart is not the same as a heart sticker. Hopefully the pic will be worth more than my rambling words.

To ALL,
Thank yall very much! At last “the Voices of Sanity!!”
I have to admit it’s getting a little creepy. 😀
I can’t imagine the State or the Defense team has time to read blogs much less my blog. It’s not like this site is owned by WFTV or the Orlando Sentinel.
kRazY..
lol