Yeah, it's a gravy train. But now nobody wants gravy... They all want the free brunch offered by the unscrupulous installer. I'm working with a client now that has had failures for 20 years and I can show them why it fails, how it fails and how I can guarantee it can be remedied.... Any bets if they take my plan or if they go with the next shiny pick-up truck that says he can fix that up just fine for CHEAP!!
Time and time again my clients fall prey to these hustlers. And in another year they will have brand new flooring failing again.
In fact I have four clients now that are looking for a magic remedy, the instant weight loss pill, the secret word that makes women swoon, the magnets that you put on your gas line and double your mileage.

How strong are the desires to save money and believe the next fancy-tie-guy? I had a client last summer where I tore out his failed spray on system and put down a real mitigation system. On his very next building I conducted all testing and even was able to help design the concrete slab to try to get a dry substrate prior to flooring. The timeline was extremely short and the slab was far too wet, so I quoted a price for mitigation. At the same time the installer recommended a spray and pray just like the one we just spent a fortune replacing on his other building and to my shock he decided to try it again.

But the issue is always the architect / engineer. They should have the liability when these things go bad. Their tune would change IMMEDIATELY if they had to foot the $20 s/f mitigation and cost of floor replacement. But then they'd all probably just go to polished / raw / stained concrete and I'd be even in more trouble.

Just talked to my local koster / ardex guy. He is doing 19 rh tests for 5000 s/f and coring the slab because it looks soft on the top. Makes me so happy to know my flooring won't have a call back on this one. But do wish I had something in his numbers since I game the GC his number. Oh well at least I won't have a call back for moisture.

(10-19-2011, 11:16 AM)eaadams Wrote: But the issue is always the architect / engineer. They should have the liability when these things go bad. Their tune would change IMMEDIATELY if they had to foot the $20 s/f mitigation and cost of floor replacement.

Actually in the case I was just discussing the Architect made the decision, and this was AFTER they just paid for the repair of the other job.

Well to be completely factual, I must say they let the building owner make the decision.... So what will the judge say? You had problems before, you knew the slab had high failure potential, and then you let the owner go ahead and make the same mistake? And you didn't say a thing?

I wonder if the owners factor in the downtime cost of mitigation for these cheap fixes. I go in and repair lots of different flooring in fortune 500 stores. I can't believe the shoddy work I see. Time after time it's the same store but they won't shut it down to fix it properly, just the bandaid fix is all they want.

Also, doesn't matter what a 'judge' would say. They all settle before it goes to trial. You wouldn't want to risk it at trial. But I sure will on one case now. Because I know I am right this time. muhahaha

Downtime costs or what they call 'Lost opportunity' because they schedule the work in, but the opportunity to perform surgeries is lost, runs about $50,000 a day per O.R.

I have removed flooring with a ride on stripper, blasted floors, installed epoxy and then leveled all while surgeries went on in the adjacent O.R.s.
We build terminally cleanable barrier walls, put the work area in 24/7 computer monitored negative pressure, and do our noisy work after hours.

I've had my guys nap on cots while we wait for products to dry and then we get right back at it so we get the facility back up and running as soon as we possibly can.

Our turnaround time is usually 5 days for 3,000 sf, and that includes all barrier construction, negative air set-up, demo, mitigation, floor prep, new floor installation and seams welded, terminal cleaning, inspection by the infectious control team, barrier removal and commissioning.

If that 3,000 sf includes 3 or 4 O.R.s, the facility could look to recoup $750,000 to $1,000,000 in lost opportunity. Include the cost of the mitigation and you'd be somewhere between $850,000 to $1.1M.

The cost to mitigate and guarantee no future moisture problems before initial flooring for that size area would be $7,500 to $9,000.

(10-20-2011, 06:56 AM)eaadams Wrote: If you are doing vap at $3 sf you are cheap. really cheap. Wow that is cheap.

Err I should say affordable...

I freely give out my prices. The cost for VAP (labor included) will run between $1.50 to $2.50 per square foot in most instances. I can blast concrete and edge grind for between 50 cents and $1 per square foot. Typical installations therefore go between $2.00 and $3.50/sf.

(10-20-2011, 06:56 AM)eaadams Wrote: If you are doing vap at $3 sf you are cheap. really cheap. Wow that is cheap.

Err I should say affordable...

I freely give out my prices. The cost for VAP (labor included) will run between $1.50 to $2.50 per square foot in most instances. I can blast concrete and edge grind for between 50 cents and $1 per square foot. Typical installations therefore go between $2.00 and $3.50/sf.

Did I mention I had a job in Seattle then had to pass on it? They wanted to do it in phases... Every time I have been to Seattle it has been sunny and just gorgeous. The people are fabulous and the food and coffee are to die for....

But I have friends working in Seattle now that tell me they haven't seen the sun since they don't know when.

I guess my view of Seattle is a little skewed.

Maybe my view of Arizona is too! I worked there in 2007 at a hospital, and again the people were wonderful, the buildings are built a lot differently than they are in the north... We don't have much stucco here, and clay roofs? No way.