Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

>Should I be fearful when I (or my programs) generate XML code?

1) XML isn't code, it's a data markup convention.

2) MS has no ownership in XML itself.

3) MS (or someone else) might have patents applicable to specific uses
of XML, to the same extent that they might have patents applicable to
that applciation if its data was kept in some other representation.

In other words, XML shouldn't make you any more fearful than anything
else does. Or any less; your C/Java/C++ code might also infringe
someone's patent.

Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

On Dec 27, 3:57 pm, Ramon F Herrera wrote:
> When I got one of my multiple Computer Science degrees I was told:
> - All code is data
> - All data is code

With all due respect: c/is/can be treated as/ and I'll accept that;
otherwise no.

But this is philosophy, and the question was about law, neither of
which has much connection with reality...

Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

Rick writes:
> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:57:59 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:
>
>> In article
>> ,
>> Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>> On Dec 25, 12:09 am, Tim Smith wrote:
>>> > In article <19983549.1cevY8o...@schestowitz.com>,
>>> > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Microsoft will deny this, but it's already confirmed that
>>> > > Microsoft's 'Open'
>>> > > XML, for example, is a patent trap. See here:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > No more so than ODF.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> I beg to differ, Tim. Are you saying that the source code of C# or
>>> Visual J are as open and devoid of the fear factor as that of Java?
>>
>> No. I'm saying that Sun has patents that cover ODF, Microsoft has
>> patents that cover OOXML. Both of them have made those patents
>> available reasonably (but not in a way that makes the formats "open" by
>> the standards usually used for things to be "open") for those who want
>> to implement those formats, respectively. Roy decided to use your
>> initial question as an opportunity to post part of his stock list of
>> anti-OOXML FUD.
>
> Sun has been show in courts to have illegally maintained monopoly power
> on 2 continents. Sun also hasn't used every dirty, underhanded trick in
> the book in order to stifle competition, either.

So just to get this straight : MS, Sun and Google are all dirty
monopolies now? Oh, and Novell.

Who DO you like btw?

Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

Joseph Kesselman writes:
>>Should I be fearful when I (or my programs) generate XML code?
>
> 1) XML isn't code, it's a data markup convention.
>
> 2) MS has no ownership in XML itself.
>
> 3) MS (or someone else) might have patents applicable to specific uses
> of XML, to the same extent that they might have patents applicable to
> that applciation if its data was kept in some other representation.
>
> In other words, XML shouldn't make you any more fearful than anything
> else does. Or any less; your C/Java/C++ code might also infringe
> someone's patent.

I think you should be more concerned with the XSLT.

Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

On Sun, 30 Dec 2007 20:03:46 +0100, Hadron wrote:
> Rick writes:
>
>> On Tue, 25 Dec 2007 00:57:59 -0800, Tim Smith wrote:
>>
>>> In article
>>> ,
>>> Ramon F Herrera wrote:
>>>> On Dec 25, 12:09 am, Tim Smith
>>>> wrote:
>>>> > In article <19983549.1cevY8o...@schestowitz.com>,
>>>> > Roy Schestowitz wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > > Microsoft will deny this, but it's already confirmed that
>>>> > > Microsoft's 'Open'
>>>> > > XML, for example, is a patent trap. See here:
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > No more so than ODF.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> I beg to differ, Tim. Are you saying that the source code of C# or
>>>> Visual J are as open and devoid of the fear factor as that of Java?
>>>
>>> No. I'm saying that Sun has patents that cover ODF, Microsoft has
>>> patents that cover OOXML. Both of them have made those patents
>>> available reasonably (but not in a way that makes the formats "open"
>>> by the standards usually used for things to be "open") for those who
>>> want to implement those formats, respectively. Roy decided to use
>>> your initial question as an opportunity to post part of his stock list
>>> of anti-OOXML FUD.
>>
>> Sun has been show in courts to have illegally maintained monopoly power
>> on 2 continents. Sun also hasn't used every dirty, underhanded trick in
>> the book in order to stifle competition, either.
>
> So just to get this straight : MS, Sun and Google are all dirty
> monopolies now? Oh, and Novell.
>
> Who DO you like btw?

I made a typo above. Fixed:

Sun hasn't been shown in courts to have illegally maintained monopoly
power on 2 continents. Sun also hasn't used every dirty, underhanded
trick in the book in order to stifle competition, either.

I never said Sun and Google were dirty monopolies.

--
Rick

Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

Hadron wrote:
> I think you should be more concerned with the XSLT.

Don't see why...

--
Joe Kesselman / Beware the fury of a patient man. -- John Dryden

Re: Does Microsoft have XML patents?

____/ Joseph Kesselman on Wednesday 02 January 2008 14:19 : \____
> Hadron wrote:
>> I think you should be more concerned with the XSLT.
>
> Don't see why...

Neither can 'Hadron'. He wanted to make a witty remark by mentioning an
acronym.