<quoted text>The book "Jefferson Lies" by David Barton which attempted to drag Jefferson into American christian lore was dropped by the Thomas Nelson (a conservative chrstian publishing house) after being described as "the least credible history book in print".They get their fact checking ethics from their in depth examination of `biblical facts`.

Not only do so many Christians prove that they live their lives believing that ignorance is bliss, they make it that much worse by being proud of their ignorance.

<quoted text>What difference does that make regarding being addicted to gambling?I mean...is being addicted to ANYTHING a good thing?

I Know.

I been try'n ta give up all that easy money an such...but I jist can't seem ta break the habit o' smil'n when I looks at the balance line.An all the snivel'n, cry'n and name call'n when ya sweeps all them chips in the cart ta head fer the cashier is downright depress'n too.

That's prolly why I has a few (free)drinks(an buy the whole table too) afore I git's ta end'n the lechery. Softens the blow, so ta speak.

<quoted text> I Know.I been try'n ta give up all that easy money an such...but I jist can't seem ta break the habit o' smil'n when I looks at the balance line.An all the snivel'n, cry'n and name call'n when ya sweeps all them chips in the cart ta head fer the cashier is downright depress'n too.That's prolly why I has a few (free)drinks(an buy the whole table too) afore I git's ta end'n the lechery. Softens the blow, so ta speak.

Enjoy riding the wave, BT.....but waves break apart and collapse- it's only a question of time.

<quoted text>Who is trying to re-write history? Who are these "people" you speak of in your delusional state of your self-inflicted persecution complex?No, DUMMY- what is TRULY obvious is that at best, the founding fathers were ambivalent about their own personal religious beliefs, and at worst, claimed to believe one thing or another to pander to the budding nation at large.Let me ask you this, you silly lemming: if the founding fathers were known to be atheists, would you be one?If the founding fathers were known to be Jewish, would you have converted to Judaism?Why does it matter to you SO much what the founding fathers did or did not believe? It's SO obvious you use that to influence what you believe.

What matters is the integrity & honesty of history. MOST of the founding fathers were religious men. Period.

I don't know who these "people" are, but if you do a search fur the religion ad the founding fathers, you get sites that "show" they weren't religious, when in fact they were.

<quoted text>What matters is the integrity & honesty of history. MOST of the founding fathers were religious men. Period.I don't know who these "people" are, but if you do a search fur the religion ad the founding fathers, you get sites that "show" they weren't religious, when in fact they were.

What you state as if it is fact is not necessarily so.

What you say about sites that "show" they were not religious; I could say the same about the sites that "show" they were.

Again- what difference does that make to you and why should whether or not the founding fathers were religious or not matter to you?

If nothing else- and aside from WHATEVER their personal religious beliefs were, there is no mistaking that they were ALL in favor of a clear separation of church and state when founding the USA.

But, pathetic follower that you are, you stomp your foot and insist they were religious men- as if that gives YOU being a (so-called) religious man more credibility.

What's the matter? Your beliefs aren't as credible as they need to be for no other reason than being YOUR beliefs?

<quoted text>What matters is the integrity & honesty of history. MOST of the founding fathers were religious men. Period.I don't know who these "people" are, but if you do a search fur the religion ad the founding fathers, you get sites that "show" they weren't religious, when in fact they were.

"One of the many attacks on our country from the Religious Right is the claim that our country is a Christian Nation...not just that the majority of people are Christians, but that the country itself was founded by Christians, for Christians.

However, a little research into American history will show that this statement is a lie. Those people who spread this lie are known as Christian Revisionists. They are attempting to rewrite history, in much the same way as holocaust deniers are. The men responsible for building the foundation of the United States were men of The Enlightenment, not men of Christianity. They were Deists who did not believe the bible was true.

********They were Freethinkers who relied on their reason, not their faith.********

None of the Founding Fathers were atheists.

Most of the Founders were Deists, which is to say they thought the universe had a creator, but that he does not concern himself with the daily lives of humans, and does not directly communicate with humans, either by revelation or by sacred books. They spoke often of God,(Nature's God or the God of Nature), but this was not the God of the bible.

They did not deny that there was a person called Jesus, and praised him for his benevolent teachings, but they flatly denied his divinity.

Some people speculate that if Charles Darwin had lived a century earlier, the Founding Fathers would have had a basis for accepting naturalistic origins of life, and they would have been atheists.

We'll never know; but by reading their own writings, it's clear that most of them were opposed to the bible, and the teachings of Christianity in particular.

Yes, there were Christian men among the Founders.

Just as Congress removed Thomas Jefferson's words that condemned the practice of slavery in the colonies, they also altered his wording regarding equal rights. His original wording is here in blue italics: "All men are created equal and independent. From that equal creation they derive rights inherent and inalienable." Congress changed that phrase, increasing its religious overtones: "All men are created equal. They are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights." But we are not governed by the Declaration of Independence-- it is a historical document, not a constitutional one."

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