On Wisconsin! (Read 2075 times)

I'm surprised to see no mention yet of the activities in Wisconsin. I just got back from protesting at the capitol building. Check NYTimes, MSNBC, BBC, or many other news organizations for a summary.

I saw an entire high school cross country team yesterday with signs that said, "Runners for unions."

Go Wisco!

Call me Ray (not Ishmael)

xor

posted: 2/17/2011 at 4:35 PMmodified: 2/17/2011 at 4:35 PM

Sorry, Seattle is too busy protesting the cop who shot and killed the native american woodcarver on the street and then got off w/o prosecution. (though he did resign yesterday)

All we've heard about is how the cop screwed up. And he did. And what he reported didn't exactly match up what the dash video recorded (mostly audio) or eyewitnesses. It was dumb and didn't need to happen. But what hasn't been reported is that the woodcarver dude was a mean drunk who was frequently drunk and frequently mean. On the street. The kind of dude that you'd go waaay out of your way to miss. Ugly on both sides.

Sorry, Seattle is too busy protesting the cop who shot and killed the native american woodcarver on the street and then got off w/o prosecution. (though he did resign yesterday)

Reh roh.

Call me Ray (not Ishmael)

DoppleBock

posted: 2/17/2011 at 6:19 PM

I used to have a pension - 7 years ago the company did away with it - They were about 7 years after most manufacturing companies. I have 2 choices for health insurance - To pay 50% of the cost of a 80/20 Co-pay with a $1,000 deductible or pay 20% of a 70/30 co-pay with a $2,000 deductible. There is no early retirement health insurance. This is what manufacturing companies have had to do to survive. Heck even the Teamsters have stopped allowing you to retire before you reach retirement age.

So everyone in the state of WI (Generally - except state and federal employees) have had to either give up pension entirely or can not take early retirement. They have had to bear the cost of an average of 30-50% of our own health insurance costs. It has been that was for at least 5-15 years.

Unions had a time when they were a God sent to give people safe working enviroment, a relief from 16-20 hour days for no more pay etc.

Today - Government regulations from OSHA, The Civil Rights act (Fair employment and anit-dicrimination) and rules on overtime # of consecutive days workes etc have taken controll to fill that gap.

Unions today are mostly wage and benefit based. In this case they have done a great job for their members - letting them hold onto costly benefits for 5-15 extra years than the rest of us in the WI workforce. The rest of us have experienced many wage/benefit net reductions (Mostly benefit, but sometimes both - Net less $ earned) during that same time.

WI is one of the highest taxed states

WI continues to lose its industry base to other states that have a lower tax cost

WI has one of the better public school systems in the country - Generally we have great educators.

In most areas in WI (Aside from inner city) for each job opening there are 40-400 qualified applicants - meaning there is a much larger supply of teachers than demand (# of jobs)

Teachers are one of the most valuable things (Law endorcement ++) that my state tax dollars go for as it helps me grow my most valuable assset - My kids.

I used to have a pension - 7 years ago the company did away with it - They were about 7 years after most manufacturing companies. I have 2 choices for health insurance - To pay 50% of the cost of a 80/20 Co-pay with a $1,000 deductible or pay 20% of a 70/30 co-pay with a $2,000 deductible. There is no early retirement health insurance. This is what manufacturing companies have had to do to survive. Heck even the Teamsters have stopped allowing you to retire before you reach retirement age.

So everyone in the state of WI (Generally - except state and federal employees) have had to either give up pension entirely or can not take early retirement. They have had to bear the cost of an average of 30-50% of our own health insurance costs. It has been that was for at least 5-15 years.

Unions had a time when they were a God sent to give people safe working enviroment, a relief from 16-20 hour days for no more pay etc.

Today - Government regulations from OSHA, The Civil Rights act (Fair employment and anit-dicrimination) and rules on overtime # of consecutive days workes etc have taken controll to fill that gap.

Unions today are mostly wage and benefit based. In this case they have done a great job for their members - letting them hold onto costly benefits for 5-15 extra years than the rest of us in the WI workforce. The rest of us have experienced many wage/benefit net reductions (Mostly benefit, but sometimes both - Net less $ earned) during that same time.

WI is one of the highest taxed states

WI continues to lose its industry base to other states that have a lower tax cost

WI has one of the better public school systems in the country - Generally we have great educators.

In most areas in WI (Aside from inner city) for each job opening there are 40-400 qualified applicants - meaning there is a much larger supply of teachers than demand (# of jobs)

Teachers are one of the most valuable things (Law endorcement ++) that my state tax dollars go for as it helps me grow my most valuable assset - My kids.

Just my unorganized thoughts on the whole issue

A post that would assist "an entire cross country team" with some additional perspective.

I don't know what "high" taxes in Wisconsin have to do with union busting.

Well, the people of Wisconsin are paying those high taxes out of their own hard earned wages to provide benefit packages to their public employees that are out of line with what the average Wisconsinite gets.

It might surprise you to know that many, many people who've never been union represented and have had to negotiate their own deal for their entire careers and have at times, due to economic conditions, had to take major hits to their wages and benefits (as DB detailed) don't have a lot of sympathy for unions. Many of them wish they'd only lost 10% of their take home pay over the last 3 years.

Runners run.

DoppleBock

posted: 2/17/2011 at 10:23 PM

The town I live in is 20,000 people - We lost 2,000 high paying blue collar jobs in the last 3 years due to companies allocating their business to assets with a lower tax burden than WI - Its not just the 200,000 state workers - Its also all the retirees - I get to retire @ 67 with anything that I have been able to save ... meaning I will be a burden (SS if it still exists) on the American People for 12 years on average (My average life expectancy)

In our area the avg school teacher makes $60,000 and has benefits that cost $30,000 - The people that have good office jobs in industry that make $60,000 have a benefit burden to the comapany of 25% of $15,000.

Think anything that you want - but when the state and the county loses all the blue collar jobs that support both white collar jobs and service type jobs - There will be no tax base left to pay any state employees.

I will be a burden (SS if it still exists) on the American People for 12 years on average (My average life expectancy)

You are going to live to be 110.

DoppleBock

posted: 2/17/2011 at 10:30 PM

My Dad retired a young man with a 30 year Teemster pension - Good for him. Its already been many years since the Teemsters changed to not allow you to start collecting that pension until you reach Social Security retirement age - They used to pay for health insurance to bridge the gap with that really early retirement age to medicare age.

Times changed 10 years ago - But WI is always way behind ... change.

7/20/17 #247 Comeback #19 ... 10/8 - Glacial Trail 50M

DoppleBock

posted: 2/17/2011 at 10:31 PM

I had a goal to live to be a dirty old man - But I happened to reach that goal as a younger man.

Well, the people of Wisconsin are paying those high taxes out of their own hard earned wages to provide benefit packages to their public employees that are out of line with what the average Wisconsinite gets.

It might surprise you to know that many, many people who've never been union represented and have had to negotiate their own deal for their entire careers and have at times, due to economic conditions, had to take major hits to their wages and benefits (as DB detailed) don't have a lot of sympathy for unions. Many of them wish they'd only lost 10% of their take home pay over the last 3 years.

Ugh. So true. My wife works as a state employee, so I'm well aware of the salaries and benefits afforded to them. On top of that, I've spent time in the financial world helping people plan for retirement. I've seen both public and private salaries and benefit packages, and it's safe to say that public employees have a pretty sweet deal. At our house, we'll lose money out of our pocket monthly, but it was going to have to happen sometime. We simply cannot keep on the same track that we're on.

Other unions in our state (Mercury Marine, Harley Davidson, and Kohler) have taken some pretty well publicized cuts in the last few years. Yet, somehow, public unions feel like they should be exempt from whatever pain the rest of the state is feeling.

On top of that, our school district is closing the schools tomorrow. Now, I have to pay to take my kid to daycare. That's not a way to win sympathy.