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I'm reposting a comment Gertch made a month ago in the "Dead is Dead" discussion thread... I'm sure it'll be of interest.

Gertch wrote:

So what happens when we follow Locke through the rest of this season and next. Then in the series finale they come across a casket. And in this casket is the body of John Locke. They look up just in time to see the John Locke they have been following dissolve into a mist and float away.

Once I got over the weirdness of Rita's horrible ex as Jacob, I really started to love the flashbacks with him, and the way the whole tapestry of the story - all the way back to the pilot episode and Jack's "five seconds" story to Kate - is being woven together, just like Jacob's tapestry itself.

The confusion among the Losties about what to do about their situation is believable, because they really have no way of knowing what to do. It all depends on "how reality works," and the universe isn't telling. So they fall back on the things their personalities impel them to do - Jack is still maniacally trying to fix everything. Sawyer has gotten over his rage and just wants to find a safe haven. Juliet is neurotic about losing Sawyer and Kate is just plain neurotic.

The big ole fist fight between Jack and Sawyer was a long time coming and thank goodness they "got it out of their system" at long last. Jack's comment to Sawyer, "see you in Los Angeles," was chilling - he's going to destroy a chunk of all their lives - even if it had been a tough chunk of life, it's still life. Is it right to turn your back on your own life like that, or to embrace it, regardless of how good or bad it is? Is Jack really correct in his eternal desire to fix everything all the time, on the probably deluded assumption that life needs to be made "all right"? Even if the Losties spend half their time arguing with and trying to kill each other, does that make their relationships worthless?

Some great classic lines, too. Miles: "I'm glad you all thought this through." Sawyer: "This doesn't look like LAX."

The reveal that Locke is still dead really took me by surprise. The other big surprise - despite reading flat-out spoilers to the contrary - is that Juliet didn't actually die. If she died, so did the other folks at the Swan Station, and somehow I doubt that could be the case. Unless this show is about to get really weird.

Bernard and Rose telling the Losties to just frakkin' chill already was classic. That felt like the last time we'll see them, and it's probable that they are therefore Adam and Eve. But who gets Vincent? I guess he stays with Bernard and Rose?

That's gotta be the best cliffhanger of all time. I don't think I've ever seen one where literally anything can happen now. Will they wake up with dinosaurs, on an alien world, in a holosuite that's just been turned off, in a lunatic asylum, in a pharoah's tomb in ancient Egypt, in purgatory or on Flight 815 headed into that damn trench? Wait until 2010!!!!!!! to find out. (Nice of them to remind us of that, too. Bastards. )

^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.

__________________
Time present and time past
are both perhaps present in time future.
And time future contained in time past.—T.S. Eliot

And as for the finale - all I can say is that it was fecking amazing. Great stuff.

I find it intriguing that Jacob basically manipulated Ben into killing him once the players were inside The Big Foot Of Mystery. He could have tried to run...could have tried to talk his way out of it...but no. He stepped up, insulted Ben and did nothing to stop the attack that was obviously coming...

^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.

I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)

The real reason why Juliet might die is if Elizabeth Mitchell's new show V is picked up (cmon ABC!!!) Juliet is great but I'd rather see the actress in a new show that could last beyond next season, and overall the cast is great and it sounds promising.

^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.

I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)

That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.

__________________
Time present and time past
are both perhaps present in time future.
And time future contained in time past.—T.S. Eliot

^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.

I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)

That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.

Nobody else on the Island has survived a fatal injury.

Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Arst, Anna Lucia.....

Even members of the Others haven't cheated death.

If the Island doesn't want you to die, no fatal injury can happen.
Remember Micheal when he tried to kill himself?

__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

I just thought of another reason Juliet will die. Let's say that the bomb just teleports them all back to 2007. Juliet will be teleported into solid ground and be instantly killed. While there is an open crater where the Swan used to be, I don't think it was nearly deep enough to go all the way down to the bottom of that deep shaft she fell into. ... I didn't know about Elizabeth Mitchell being in "V". I guess that's why they're potentially writing her out?

I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)

That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.

Nobody else on the Island has survived a fatal injury.

Boone, Shannon, Libby, Eko, Nikki, Paulo, Arst, Anna Lucia.....

Even members of the Others haven't cheated death.

If the Island doesn't want you to die, no fatal injury can happen.
Remember Micheal when he tried to kill himself?

Dead is dead, as we have so very clearly seen with Locke/Not-Locke. Juliet is dead.

I think Sayid will die too. You don't just shoot a kid. The island pay back is a bitch!

I just thought of another reason Juliet will die. Let's say that the bomb just teleports them all back to 2007. Juliet will be teleported into solid ground and be instantly killed. While there is an open crater where the Swan used to be, I don't think it was nearly deep enough to go all the way down to the bottom of that deep shaft she fell into. ... I didn't know about Elizabeth Mitchell being in "V". I guess that's why they're potentially writing her out?

I also wouldn't count her as gone for good.

Ghost do roam this Island.

__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.

^I think that the reason some people believe that Juliet is more likely to be dead than the others is because she has such serious injuries from her fall. If, for instance, they were all transported back to the present on the island (timeline did not change), then Juliet would still have her really serious injuries and die almost immediately. Of course if they changed the timeline then who knows what will happen.

I thought that changing the timeline means that any injuries that people have now will go poof as they are returned to their original state, on Flight 815 or wherever they might be. (Their memories will be gone as well.)

That's why I said that if they DO change the timeline who knows what will happen, but if they don't, and are just transported back to 2007 with no timeline changes, then Juliet's a goner.

I didn't think that time travel minus changing the timeline was an option. Either they changed the timeline and they travel (before the bomb can kill anyone since it should be instantaneous) or they don't change the timeline and they're all killed in the blast.

Since the cast is unlikely to be all killed, I'd say that they've time-travelled somewhere. And since the entire drama of Jack's actions revolve around the idea that time travel will neutralize everything they've been through, their bodies won't go along for the ride - they will travel into their bodies whenever they happen to be. The question is whether their memories will also be zapped.

If their bodies time travel then their memories will also travel, and then what was the fuss about Jack wiping out everyone's memories and destroying their history together so that they all become strangers? That could work w/n the established logic - to the extent that any logic has been established - but it wouldn't work dramatically at all.

Doesn't work, because the version of 2007 we see on the show already includes the actions of the 815ers back in 1977. We know that because we see a picture of them from the Dharma era, and we see Richard say "I remember meeting them, and I watched them die". That proves that their actions back in 1977 are already part of the timeline.

No, we're talking about changing the timeline, not maintaining the current one. So, it does work. There's already proof of being able to change time. In the first episode with Miles with the kid. Daniel talks to Desmond in the past who suddenly remembers it in the future. He didn't remember that before.

Also, Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid were not supposed to go back to 1977 originally. Yet, Daniel's mom and Jacob have helped ensure that they will. Anything they do is different than the previous time loop. Their present in the past is already rippling to the present. The picture in the Dharmaville. That's an immediate change.

So, yes, things will look consistent to a point from the point of view of the characters in the present. But, we're talking changing the timeline.

I'm not sure I explained my argument clearly. i understand that you're talking about changing the timeline. But that would mean that there's an "original timeline" in which the Losties never went back to the 1970s and an "altered timeline" in which they did. But if that's the case, then the version of 2007 that we've been watching all season long is the "altered timeline", not the original one. We know this because there's a picture of the Losties from the Dharma era, and because Richard says he remembers them and "watched them die".

So nothing they did back in the 1970s prevented, say, Jacob from being killed. Because their actions are already part of the timeline that we've been watching all season, and Jacob was in fact killed.

Depends how time works in Lost doesn't it? Right now it seems like it can loop rather than create alternative time lines. We've seen that already. I've theorized elsewhere (oh, wait, actually in this thread) that what we're watching now may already be an interation in a time loop that goes around. A signiture of a time loop that is manipulated would be unusual concidences. What do we have in a lost, a bunch of unusual conincidences. The whys of that, I won't repeat but I've tossed it out earlier in this thread. It's a wild theory, I could well be wrong.

My reason for thinking Juliet may not be dead is because that scene was almost an exact mirror for the scene at the end of Season 2 where Des is caught in the hatch explosion. Des survived the hatch explosion, ergo Juliet may very well survive the swan explosion.

My reason for thinking Juliet may not be dead is because that scene was almost an exact mirror for the scene at the end of Season 2 where Des is caught in the hatch explosion. Des survived the hatch explosion, ergo Juliet may very well survive the swan explosion.

Desmond didn't have internal injuries as was the case by her bleeding from the mouth before it blew.

Seeing how that happen & if she got blown up in the air like Desmond too, she sho' be dead now!

__________________
A Tiger doesn't loose sleep over the opinion of sheep.