Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that’s what they decided to do. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve. ‘Since you are all such good customers,’ he said, ‘I’m going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20.’ Drinks for the ten now cost just $80.
The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free.

But what about the other six men – the paying customers? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his ‘fair share?’
They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody’s share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man’s bill by roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out the amounts each should pay.

And so:
The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).
The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).
The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).
The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).
The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).
The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But once outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their savings.
‘I only got a dollar out of the $20,’declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,’ but he got $10!’ ‘Yeah, that’s right,’ exclaimed the fifth man. ‘I only saved a dollar, too. It’s unfair that he got ten times more than I got’ ‘That’s true!!’ shouted the seventh man. ‘Why should he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get all the breaks!’ ‘Wait a minute,’ yelled the first four men in unison. ‘We didn’t get anything at all. The system exploits the poor!’ The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn’t show up for drinks so the nine sat down and had beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn’t have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and college professors, is how our tax system works. The people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand, no explanation is needed.
For those who do not understand, no explanation is possible.

David R. Kamerschen, Ph.D.
Professor of Economics
University of Georgia

I think the conclusion is inverted. In this example it is the poorest that receive the most, not the tenth man. The dollar figure is irrelevant– he only received back a fraction of what he paid, whereas poorer men got reimbursed 100%. If this is how the tax system actually works, it’s the rich people represented by the tenth man who should be complaining.

You are so right Jeff, people like Finlay will never get it. The people who support Obama want Socialism. They want someone to take care of them. Spread the wealth. Take from the Rich and give to the Poor. How about the Dems dig into their own pockets or into some of the crazy money Obama has raised for his election and spread that? Yeah right….not going to happen

We got to see the real Obama when he told Joe “the Plumber” that he could afford to pay more in taxes to help out the little guy. SOCIALISM!!! Maybe, just maybe Joe would hire a new employee or buy a new truck or new tools with that money? I’m sure Joe would spend HIS money much wiser than the Government! And Dems, I’m just using Joe as an example, so don’t go on about the fact that he does not have a license or earn more than $250,000 etc etc. Does not matter! Obama’s belief in Socialism was caught on tape!!

And if Obama gets into office, the first 6 drinkers would get paid to drink, and the remaining 4 would have to pay for it.!!!

….. “If this is how the tax system actually works, it’s the rich people represented by the tenth man who should be complaining.”

Welcome to reality! It should be the rich who complain, instead they just continue to work harder and provide jobs for those who constantly bitch about them, envy them, and sell them out over and over again. When in fact they should be the ones who simply say — “Thank You for providing both me and my family with a livelihood!”

McCan’t,

You are a total nitwit who should not be allowed to procreate. You are so stupid I am not sure how you intake oxygen without the help of the Dem’s. FYI: Osama Obama loathes the military and everyone serving or has served in the military — Just as all Democrats do!

Outside the restaurant was a man holding a “Will Work for Food” sign, with an Obama sticker on it. Inside, our waiter was wearing an Obama pin. I asked the waiter his thoughts on Obama’s redistribution of wealth, which he was strongly in favor of. As I was leaving a $6.00 tip for our $30 meal, the waiter came to clear the table… I took back $2 from his tip and explained that I’d be giving it to the man with the sign outside the restaurant since he needs it more then our waiter did. The look on our waiter face was priceless.

The flood of American liberals sneaking across the border into Canada has intensified in the past week, sparking calls for increased patrols to stop the illegal immigration. The possibility of a McCain/Palin election is prompting the exodus among left-leaning citizens who fear they’ll soon be required to hunt, pray, and agree with Bill O’Reilly. Canadian border farmers say it’s not uncommon to see dozens of sociology professors, animal rights activists and Episcopalians crossing their fields at night.

‘I went out to milk the cows the other day, and there was a Hollywood producer huddled in the barn,’ said Manitoba farmer Red Greenfield, whose acreage borders North Dakota. The producer was cold, exhausted and hungry. ‘He asked me if I could spare a latte and some free-range chicken. When I said I didn’t have any, he left. Didn’t even get a chance to show him my screenplay, eh?’ In an effort to stop the illegal aliens, Greenfield erected higher fences, but the liberals scaled them. So he tried installing speakers that blare Rush Limbaugh across the fields. ‘Not real effective,’ he said. ‘The liberals still got through, and Rush annoyed the cows so much they wouldn’t give milk.’

Officials are particularly concerned about smugglers who meet liberals near the Canadian border, pack them into Volvo station wagons, drive them across the border and leave them to fend for themselves. ‘A lot of these people are not prepared for rugged conditions,’ an Ontario border patrolman said. ‘I found one carload without a drop of drinking water. ‘They did have a nice little Napa Valley cabernet, though.’

When liberals are caught, they’re sent back across the border, often wailing loudly that they fear retribution from conservatives. Rumors have been circulating about the McCain administration establishing re-education camps in which liberals will be forced to shoot wolves from airplanes, deny evolution and Global Warming, and act out drills preparing them for the Rapture.

In recent days, liberals have turned to sometimes-ingenious ways of crossing the border. Some have taken to posing as senior citizens on bus trips to buy cheap Canadian prescription drugs. After catching a half-dozen young vegans disguised in powdered wigs, Canadian immigration authorities began stopping buses and quizzing the supposed senior-citizen passengers on Perry Como and Rosemary Clooney hits to prove they were alive in the ’50s. ‘If they can’t identify the accordion player on The Lawrence Welk Show, we get suspicious about their age,’ an official said.

Canadian citizens have complained that the illegal immigrants are creating an organic-broccoli shortage and renting all the good Susan Sarandon movies. ‘I feel sorry for American liberals, but the Canadian economy just can’t support them,’ an Ottawa resident said. ‘How many art-history and English majors does one country need?’

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance and the gospel of envy.

The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent vice of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

Some regard private enterprise as if it were a predatory tiger to be shot. Others look upon it as a cow that they can milk. Only a handful see it for what it really is – the strong horse that pulls the whole cart.

\Winston Churchill

95%of taxpayers receiving a tax cut, is a grand piece of misinformation that would make Josef Stalin proud. 40% of Americans already pay no income tax whatsoever and thus would simply be the beneficiaries of increased income redistribution.

In economics, the Laffer curve is used to illustrate the idea that increases in the rate of taxation do not necessarily increase tax revenue. Since a 100 percent income tax will generate no revenue (as citizens will have no incentive to work), the optimal tax rate that maximizes government revenue must lie below 100 percent. Increasing taxes beyond that point would decrease tax revenue. The Laffer curve was popularized by Arthur Laffer (b. 1940) in the 1980s. However, the underlying principle has been well known since at least the time of Ibn Khaldun’s Muqaddimah (1377). In his General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money, John Maynard Keynes described how past a certain point, increasing taxation would lower revenue and vice versa.

One fallacy of the tax example is that the rich beer drinker isn’t actually paying his $59 thanks to the deductions and loopholes available to him. And if he contributes at all he has to draw from his off shore, tax-protected account.
I’m no economist but nothing this complicated could ever be explained so simply.
As one who is likely in the $3-a-beer tax bracket, I don’t begrudge helping those less fortunate than I am, but if they’re too poor to buy a beer, I’d rather contribute to bags of groceries they can take home to their families. Then again, I got a laugh from Mike’s story about Canada; let’s all lighten up. Anyway, I’d much rather enjoy that “nice little Napa Valley Cabernet” than a beer!

I think that everyone should just pay a flat tax (federal), no less than 5% but no more than 7.5% of their base salary. Make it illegal to tax someone for working overtime and (if you live in a state that has a “state tax”) they shouldn’t pay no more than 2.5% of their base salary. Make it where you can’t tax someone’s overtime pay as well. Reward hard work and make lazy people get of their asses and make the gov’t work with what they get. Also, cut capital gains taxes in half and eliminate the “Death Tax”, no matter how much is left to you by your loved ones when they pass. The gov’t needs to keep their meathooks out of our wallets. Let the people earn what they keep.

Palin a huge mistake made by McCain. He lost credibility, uses her for negative attacks, showing he is desperate. McCain a politician-politician. We need somebody fresh, young and still honest. His name is Obama.

Are you and others like you out of your friggin minds? Honest … you can’t be serious! This guy is as crooked as the hind leg of a dog! He & His Wife HATE this country, we are not even sure he is an American Citizen, her college senior thesis is “under wraps until after the election”, he hangs with know criminals, foreign governments love him, he is going to tax the shit out of people, he is going to make this country into a Socialist Utopia! Is this what you want or are you and others so stupid you are willing to risk the country so you can say …. “We need somebody fresh, young and still honest.” …. or “I voted for the first Black President” …. when all you really want to say is I hate George Bush.

Please be careful what you wish for because you might just get it and it will totally screw this country.

Anytime the tax percentage is higher for people with higher incomes, the incentive to improve oneself, get a better job, work more hours, or do whatever it takes is lost. Personally, I’m all for a flat tax. Of course it would be spun somehow as a tax cut for the rich. But in reality it’s only fair.

Here we go again; Obama is a socalist, pure and simple. He will tax the hell out of everyone until anyone that works for a living is broke. He isn’t going after “the rich”, he will go after anyone that works for a living, blue collar, white collar, does not matter. Obama and his cronies like that proto-fasict Nancy Pelosi won’t quit until capitalism is a forbidden word in our country and everyone is on welfare or any other kind of gov’t subsidy to live on. Competiton, initiative and drive will be banished from the American public until everyone “is equal” in the messiah’s eyes. For all of the Obama lovers out there, be REALLY careful what you wish for, cause if you get it, you might not like it. Free speech, freedom of religion, right to bear arms, that will be diminished or taken away outright under an Obama administration, I will bet a case of beer on it and my left nut on it.

Pure lies by Mc Cain & Palin, and dumb people believe him Obama intends to lower taxes on businesses and 95% of taxpayers. No taxes on retirees making less than $50,000. It’s the truth. Mc Cain wants to change Washington but voted 90% of the times for Bush dumb policies. The surge was decided to compensate a total failure. Mc Cain has no credibility regarding the economy, healthcare, education and war. Do you see Palin becoming President of the US? Scary. Mc Cain and his friend Joe the CEO & stockbroker. No, thank you. All governments of the occidental world prefer Obama because they want a strong and intelligent America. Not a failed America. If there was less people prejudiced Obama would lead by 65% to 35%. Obama for President.

Say what..!!!??? …..”still honest”….. get real!
What part of Chicago political history don’t you-all understand….???

Obama is a simple case of a well spoken figurehead dancing to the tune of all those who are interested in seeing the US drop of the world-stage. Because we;

-only do stuff for our won good
-take up too much of the world’s resources
-we don’t play nice with the rest of the nations and
– yada, yada, yada……

But In My Humble Opinion….
The principal reason (the Left hates the US) is that we… the United States of America are successful because we recognize that the key to a thriving, dynamic country is competition. The key is to allow those with the drive and the vision to “go-for-it.”

The Founding Fathers recognized that America’s success would be based on “Individual self interest.” which is nature’s way of assuring that the fittest survive.

There are two types of Leftists:
(1) Those who believe that the “Meek shall inherit the Earth” and
(2) Those who simply want to “take over the earth” because “they know what’s best”

What this gaggle of Leftists don’t understand is that “enlightened self interest” on the part of those who succeed is about as it gets. There is no Utopia or heaven-on-earth.

The simply fact is this:
A vote for Obama is a vote for the Leftists (all of them) and the result will be that they (each for their own reasons) will kill the Goose that laid the golden eggs…..

Both Republicans & Democrats are capitalists. Look at the personal net worth of the democrat politicians. Socialism is something else that Gar doesn’t know and don’t understand. All foreign republican governments favor Obama as president. How do you explain this? Republicans call Obama a socialist to scare people. Their last tentative of their awful personal attacks against Obama because as things are now they are going to lose the election. Republican’s program is weak and incoherent. How do you explain that the richest self- made men in America like Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Bill gates, etc support Obama. Even the former Bush spokesperson and Colin Powell just joined the democrat’s camp. Do you really think they socialists! They are going to pay more taxes (not much) and they think it’s right. Gar, you have no political culture and no economic education.

The question that “Joe the Plumber” should have confronted Obama with is, “Senator you
got $4.3 million for a book deal. You and Biden say anyone with more than $250K should
‘get in the game’, ‘pay your fair share’, etc. If you really believe this why not put your money
where your mouth is and give at least $4 million of this windfall to charity or better yet you
say the government needs the money, write the feds a check.”

We’ve also heard his brother in Africa lives on pocket change. Why not send him a $500
money order. He’ll live like a king. I really don’t give a rip what he does with his money,
I only care that he wants my money.

By the way, Al Gore would have called that $4.3M hitting life’s lottery. Hypocrites of a
feather run for office together.

RE:
“… How do you explain that the richest self- made men in America like Warren Buffet, Steve Jobs, Bill gates, etc support Obama …”

Well, for the simple reason that they have so much money that giving money away doesn’t change their standard of living at all.

Do you thing the Rockafella Foundations, changed the way that John D. (Sr. or Jr.) lived…???
Do you think that Warren or Bill are going to give away enough money to put them down into the Middle Class…. ???

RE:
“… All foreign republican governments favor Obama as president …”

Hell, that’s simple, he plans to spread even more of US taxpayers $$$ around the world than Bill “spot-your-dress” Clinton.

RE: (this is off Obama’s own web page)
“…Eliminating global poverty remains one of the greatest challenges we face, with billions of people around the world forced to live on just dollars a day,” said Senator Obama…”

“…Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE) and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) have introduced the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. Representatives Adam Smith (D-WA) and Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House in September…”

The Global Poverty Act:

-Declares it official U.S. policy to promote the reduction of global poverty, the elimination of extreme global poverty, and the achievement of the Millennium Development Goal of cutting extreme global poverty in half by 2015.

-Requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive strategy to carry out that policy.

-Includes guidelines for what the strategy should include – from aid, trade, and debt relief, to working with the international community, businesses and NGOs, to ensuring environmental sustainability.

-Requires that the President’s strategy include specific and measurable goals, efforts to be undertaken, benchmarks, and timetables.

-Requires the President to report back to Congress on progress made in the implementation of the global poverty strategy.

Off hand, i’d say that’s one of the reason for the “…awful personal attacks against Obama …”

What Obama and others of his “ilk” (pejorative emphasized) don’t understand is that “world hunger” is one of those “Malthusian problems” that has no solution (see Malthus on population and food supply). It’ll be a cold day in Hell before i vote to let my retirement money vanishing into some Utopian pipe dream.

Just got back from three weeks in central America…. interesting place to visit…. not to live.
I like the US just the way it is, with bunches of people wanting to get in and no one wanting to get out….

I still believe in the American Dream and no one will ever take that away from me.

I believe that with HARD WORK, PERSONAL RISK, PERSONAL SACRIFICE, HONESTY, DETERMINATION & MORE HARD WORK, any legal citizen of this GREAT NATION can achieve the AMERICAN DREAM.

I believe that anyone who is NOT willing to WORK HARD, TAKE PERSONAL RISK, MAKE PERSONAL SACRIFICES, IS NOT HONEST & NOT DETERMINED is NOT entitled to the same AMERICAN DREAM just because they have a DREAM! I also do not feel I should have to pay for anyone else’s “Dream”….no one is paying for mine….

I do not believe in a socialist system or any system that punishes those willing to achieve their own personal AMERICAN DREAM by HARD WORK, PERSONAL RISK, PERSONAL SACRIFICE, HONESTY, DETERMINATION & MORE HARD WORK!

Obama wants to make it harder and take away more of the incentive to achieve my AMERICAN DREAM….

Increasing taxes on those earning over $250,000 is just a start!!!! Once that does not pay for all there hand outs, who’s next???

Nicker: One thing you didn’t point out in your response to Andreas about Buffett, Jobs, Gates, et al,
is that their primary source of income is not what is called earned income but by way of capital gains, stock options, etc. Cap gains tax is currently 15% unlike Obama’s proposed 40%+ tax on high achievers. The higher income tax wil effect them very little.

I know Bill and Melinda Gates have given away billions (that’s with a B) and I applaud them for that but I fail to see how any successful person that has used our capitalist system to become rich can support the Marxist position of Obama (From those with the ability to those with the means). It seems very hypocritical to me.

Jee-Zuz!
Leave the country just for a few days…. and the Socialist go hog-wild.

Try this:
“… From each his ability, to each his need …”

OK, so if that’s how they want it to work then:
I….. NEED…. a Ferrara. …..Seriously!
I’m a great driver.
I would Really, REALLY appreciate one……….!!!
Other than being a real “Dick” about some (minor?) social issues…. I deserve one.
Why shouldn’t i have what i NEED….???
It sure would make my life a whole Hell of a Lott better.
Don’t you guys want me to have a better life…???

If you-all pitched in, i could have one by next week.
So, whats the holdup…???

Dan – Please explain the difference between Socialist and Social Fairness. One of us must be retarded ’cause I just don’t get it. I don’t make over $250,000. and don’t feel entitlement to someone else’s money just because they do. Greed comes is all shapes and sizes. Greed, 1 of the 10 deadly sins. Peace!

Me-
So how come everyone in “the third world” (i just got back from there) wants to be here.

Dan-
“… to make sure I don’t pay a percentage of income taxes lower than my secretary…”

Dude, my business case (how much tax i pay…. etc….etc.) includes giving “my secretary” and a bunch of other people jobs. I do what i have to to stay in business. I live in the real world and that is how the real world operates.

George B-
Forget “u-tube”
Show us some intellect, put words together.

How is it that “bikers” subscribe to Socialism….?
When you get stuck by the side of the road, do you expect the “Public Department of Bikes” to come get your sorry ass….???

Nicker, if the fed gov’t creates a “Public Department of Bikes”–how hard do you think it would be to get a job there? The work couldn’t be that bad, get paid twice as much to do half the work, typical gov’t agency. Cruising around in a truck picking up broken down bike riders, they have to write it in our contracts that we’d have to stop at a Hooter’s for wings and beer afterwards one the bike is picked up and dropped off. If that were to happen I’d be the first in line for that gig. I can only dream.

Someone please explain something to me: If this country is so fucked up and the world health organization ranks us number whatever the hell ….. then why in Gods name are people fighting to come to America, risking their lives crossing our borders illegally, coming from every point on the globe for medical care, economic stability and the American way of life????? Someone please explain that to me!

Never mind, I think I figured it out ….. they all know the Messiah himself, Osama Obama, has risen from obscurity and is walking on water in this country (after all, they all watch CNN, ABC, CBS and NBC around the world), or should I say, walking on the backs of the real taxpayers in this country …. you all do remember the Tenth Man above don’t you? That must be why they are over running our borders to get here. I am confused though ….. where are the lines of the people wanting to get out of the U.S. because we are so fucked up?

Jeff. Shame on you. Nobody comes here for the health care system!!! Far from it. Are you kidding? Even americans travel abroad to have the correct treatment at the correct price. You should also know that immigration comes mainly from South America for economic reasons and that money earned here is sent back home. 95% of illegal immigrants don’t want to stay in America more than a few years. Most don’t like the system. They just look for a job and save money. The largest immigration is to Europe, not to the US. You are right, you are quite confused.

You need to put the bong down and stop watching M-TV and turn off YouTube because you are way out of the glide scope!

Paul Dancy,

Yes, as a matter of fact I do oppose the Buy Out, I am sorry, I mean the Bail Out. I also oppose the bailing out of banks and especially making them nationalized. In my opinion we should allow the over inflated stock market and the unhealthy banks and mortgage loans to crash and burn … it is going to happen sooner or later anyway. (That should stir the pot some!)

Further: If I am not mistaken Mike said it very clearly above ….. the majority party in Congress is Democrats.

My God you people need to get a grip before Voting Day or this country is in real trouble!

I think Jeff and Nic are saying it well. Do you think Steve , Warren, And Bill have money invested overseas? Just as the above states they will leave if the right fucks with them And the left has always swade toward socialism. Walter Ruther went to the east block to learn it. And appied in in our country which was the begining of our down fall. Check it out it is all the history of our nation. Look it up and read it.

I’m usually not one for posting but how could I resist. The American people are unfortunately sheep. Most only pickup sound bites from the media and them claim them as fact without researching the issues themselves.

ME says “Nobody comes here for the health care system!!! Far from it. Are you kidding? Even americans travel abroad to have the correct treatment at the correct price.” ME, you are very wrong and don’t even know it. Here is a short clip from a Canadian doctor on the problems with Canadian health care and how they routinely have to send their patients to the states. They fear an Obama election because the world will have nowhere to send their patients. Worth watching.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4u5x9XAsAs

Here is another great one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iM2xHggg7Uk
Here they interview Obama supporters in Harlem and give them McCains stances on War, abortion, and Sarah Palin and they love the policy ONLY because they think it comes from Obama. They don’t even know the Palin is with McCain. These people shouldn’t even have the right to vote.

ME also says: “95% of illegal immigrants don’t want to stay in America more than a few years. Most don’t like the system. They just look for a job and save money”. WRONG Again! In the midwest there are more Hispanic run businesses and Hispanics purchasing homes than almost anywhere else. They are not getting jobs at Burger King and just shipping the paycheck back. They are starting businesses employing others, growing roots, many pay taxes through TIN numbers, etc. These people like the American Dream. None of them are sneaking back. If they were we wouldn’t be worried about our immigration policy. The people come in and they stay.

If you aren’t willing to educate yourself on something, please do not post or take a public stance it.

Who told you Americans go to Canada for healthcare? I don’t see this above. At best, they buy drugs in Canada. Canada doesn’t have a good health care system. You demonstration is flawed. All Europe and even Brazil has top of the line and cheap healthcare.

Who told you that immigrants don’t have businesses? I think that what is said above is that most don’t stay here and send their money in the native country, business people or burgers flippers. True. By the way, illegal immigration is sharply down with many hispanics leaving the country because of the terrible economic situation in the US. Your demonstration is flawed. Inform yourself.

Racism works both ways just as racist to favor a candidate due to his race as it is to discriminate against a candidate due to his race. What happened to Martin Luthor King’s famous quote?

I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

It is Barack Obama and his supporters who have hyped race, after his large lead in the polls began to shrink or evaporate, as more of the facts about his checkered career came out. Almost any criticism of Obama has been equated with racism, even if there is no connection that can be seen under a microscope. Barack Obama himself started this trend when he warned that his opponents were going to try to scare the public with various charges, including a statement, ‘And did I say he was black?’ McCain said no such thing. Palin said no such thing. But those who support Obama—and this includes much of the media—are acting as if they just know that this is the underlying message. Congressman John Lewis has likened Senator McCain to George Wallace. Congressman John Murtha has condemned a whole section of the state of Pennsylvania as ‘racists’ because they seem reluctant to jump on the Obama bandwagon. Senator Harry Reid has claimed that linking Obama to deposed and disgraced Fannie Mae CEO Franklin Raines is racist, since they are both black—as if the financial and political connection between the two does not exist. Much is being made of the fact that, in past elections, some white voters who told pollsters that they are going to vote for a black candidate did not in fact do so, so that a black candidate with a lead in the polls ended up losing on election day. This is supposed to show how much covert racism there is. It might instead show that people don’t want to be considered racists by pollsters because they are leaning toward someone other than the black candidate. In other words, the media themselves helped create the charged atmosphere in which some people give misleading answers to pollsters to avoid being stigmatized.

The 10th man in the example above is really going to leave, huh? Doubtful. He/she may “leave” by taking jobs overseas. Jobs shipped overseas are not solely due to taxes. Lower wages trump tax issues for the rationale to ship jobs overseas in many industries.

There is an underlying contradition in the conservative supporters’ fervored belief in “trickle down”. You ignore fundamentals of Capitalism: gross margins & gross profits are the leading forces in decision-making.

Corporations are expected to raise those margins first and foremost for the “SHAREHOLDERS”, not Joe-the-Employee. There is no such thing as a legitimate and fair “trickle down” when the focus on gross profits comes from an external influence such as “shareholders”. Corporations will skimp on your raise & benefits as much as possible all the while ensure golden parachutes in the hundreds of millions for the CEOs.

You might say small businesses are not incorporated. Ah, but how much of the above principle applies in a similar manner? In a capitalistic society, the hesitation to “trickle down” fairly inherently applies everywhere. It isn’t until a significant crack in the workforce’s well-being (and subsequently threats to Joe-the-Entrpreneur’s own business), are those capitalistic greedy ways curtailed to recognize the contributions of the people that helped reached that financial success.

This does not mean socialism is the answer. Far from it. (by the way, McCain is the one that wants the Govt. to buy back 300+ bilion of these mortgages. Where are the conservative outcries of socialism directed to McCain for that claim?)

There are numerous ways to incent businesses (large and small) to keep jobs domestically and to provide a tax structure that helps businesses stay competitive than the grossly simplified and insulting beer example above. This guy actually put his name & economic profession to that drivel? Is he actually thinking that these “bikers” will understand this simple example and we’ll leave it at that. Bullshit.

————————-
On a separate note:

1.
T Boon Pickens thinks the “Drill Baby Drill” or “Drill Here Drill Now” drivel from Palin, McCain, and those supporters are severely ignorant and not understanding the reality of the oil demand vs. supply in this country.

2.
Anyone else notice that the rigors of this campaign are taking its toll on McCain’s health? This campaign is nothing to what I expect out of the next President over the next 4-8 years. Which campaign is more reactionary? We do not need reactions.

“You keep stating that the Iraq war was unjust, so let me ask you, where were you (politically not physically) after 9/11 happened?
Let me guess, sit around and do nothing b/c they don’t have an Air Force, right?….”

John – where was I politically? I was fully supportive of going into Afghanistan to find and kill bin Laden & finally give the people of Afghanistan a legitimate chance at a peaceful government. I seriously considered signing-up for military service to that end until Bush started running his mouth about a pre-emptive strike on Iraq.

John later writes: “Or, we don’t have proof who did it, so we better not do anything, right? Let’s go ahead and do nothing and become like Israelis who live in fear of going to a market place b/c of suicide bombers.
Let’s go ahead and reduce our military and intelligence so we can become over run by radical extremism. ”

John – not at all. We had proof who bombed the Pentagon, the Trade Centers, and intended to do more. We have proof that bin Laden was responsible. Re-read your posts. You actually think any government can conduct military action without proof?

Did anyone watch 60 minutes last night? First of all it was the first I had ever heard fo CDS (credit default swaps).This is really what brought down the investment firms and banks on wall street.It just a side bet that you will or will not deafault on your home loan.Legalized gambling on wall street voted into action in 2000 by the senate. This is where all our money problems started and have not yet ended. I hope they can do something to rectify this. They also told about where all the 700 Billion TAX dollars are going- Pay raises for the bad bank employees and I got so mad I cant remeber the rest although there was a list.This is what has led to the downfall of our economy and are purchase power to buy new bikes whether they are stock or custom.And now We may be stupid enough elect someone for president because of weak promises to give back a palrty amount of money YES WE ARE SELLING OUT AMERICA for our wants and what we thing we NEED!!!!Besides that do we really know or want someone to Govern who has no experince in doing so!!!

Barack Obama speaking in 2007 about the burgeoning crisis in the financial markets, but focusing on accounting fraud rather than the root cause of the meltdown: the widespread issuance of bad credit, securitized by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac at the behest of Congress. In this audio clip, Obama defends the idea of subprime lending just over a year ago: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FewmvkaTXHU&eurl=http://hotair.com/archives/2008/10/06/was-sub-prime-lending-ever-a-good-idea/
Here is the clip in full context:
Subprime lending started off as a good idea – helping Americans buy homes who couldn’t previously afford to. Financial institutions created new financial instruments that could securitize these loans, slice them into finer and finer risk categories and spread them out among investors around the country and around the world.

In theory, this should have allowed mortgage lending to be less risky and more diversified. But as certain lenders and brokers began to see how much money could be made, they began to lower their standards. Some appraisers began inflating their estimates to get the deals done. Some borrowers started claiming income they didn’t have just to qualify for the loans, and some were engaging in irresponsible speculation. But many borrowers were tricked into glossing over the fine print. And ratings agencies began rating bundles of different kinds of these loans as low-risk even though they were very high-risk.

Most everyone knew that some of these deals were just too good to be true, but all that money flowing in made it tempting to look the other way and ignore the unscrupulous practice of some bad actors.

This leaves out a couple of crucial factors. “All that money flowing” came from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, which created a boom market in the sub-prime market at the behest of Congress. They wanted to increase the market for subprime loans, and they did so by essentially creating profit on every loan, whether it made sense or not. Fannie and Freddie removed all of the normal correctives of the market by ensuring a short-term profit on almost every piece of paper written.

The second factor is that subprime lending is almost by definition not a good idea. While most people would agree that home ownership is a benefit to the individual as well as the community, the lending of money to people who can’t afford it is a fundamentally destabilizing practice. Defaults increase bankruptcies and lower property values, and ruin the financial prospects of families for years. Lending markets had rational criteria for lending before the government provided massive and irrational incentives for subprime lending, and the price of housing remained very stable in relation to inflation. Government meddling created the housing bubble and its deflation has touched off a worldwide financial panic.

Barack Obama’s entire economic argument is incoherent on this point. He argued that during the Bush years, working families went backwards economically while only a few profited. Yet home ownership blossomed during that same period, thanks to the wildfire Fannie and Freddie set in lending markets. If families were falling backwards as Obama claims, then subprime lending was a very bad idea.

Anyone arguing that subprime lending was essentially a good idea has obviously learned nothing from the collapse of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and the poison they introduced to the investment sector. The best way to boost home ownership is to build a strong economy in which job creation allows upward mobility throughout the entire economy, and to keep taxes low enough to encourage the kind of investment that creates jobs. Instead of forcing or enticing lenders to take irrational risks with credit, the government would have done much better to build people into position to own homes on a rational basis.

Big Government: Barack Obama and Democrats blame the historic financial turmoil on the market. But if it’s dysfunctional, Democrats during the Clinton years are a prime reason for it.

Obama in a statement yesterday blamed the shocking new round of subprime-related bankruptcies on the free-market system, and specifically the “trickle-down” economics of the Bush administration, which he tried to gig opponent John McCain for wanting to extend.

But it was the Clinton administration, obsessed with multiculturalism, that dictated where mortgage lenders could lend, and originally helped create the market for the high-risk subprime loans now infecting like a retrovirus the balance sheets of many of Wall Street’s most revered institutions.

Tough new regulations forced lenders into high-risk areas where they had no choice but to lower lending standards to make the loans that sound business practices had previously guarded against making. It was either that or face stiff government penalties.

The untold story in this whole national crisis is that President Clinton put on steroids the Community Reinvestment Act*, a well-intended Carter-era law designed to encourage minority homeownership. And in so doing, he helped create the market for the risky subprime loans that he and Democrats now decry as not only greedy but “predatory.”

Yes, the market was fueled by greed and overleveraging in the secondary market for subprimes, vis-a-vis mortgaged-backed securities traded on Wall Street. But the seed was planted in the ’90s by Clinton and his social engineers. They were the political catalyst behind this slow-motion financial train wreck.

And it was the Clinton administration that mismanaged the quasi-governmental agencies that over the decades have come to manage the real estate market in America.

As soon as Clinton crony Franklin Delano Raines took the helm in 1999 at Fannie Mae, for example, he used it as his personal piggy bank, looting it for a total of almost $100 million in compensation by the time he left in early 2005 under an ethical cloud.

Other Clinton cronies, including Janet Reno aide Jamie Gorelick, padded their pockets to the tune of another $75 million.

Raines was accused of overstating earnings and shifting losses so he and other senior executives could earn big bonuses.

In the end, Fannie had to pay a record $400 million civil fine for SEC and other violations, while also agreeing as part of a settlement to make changes in its accounting procedures and ways of managing risk.

But it was too little, too late. Raines had reportedly steered Fannie Mae business to subprime giant Countrywide Financial, which was saved from bankruptcy by Bank of America.

At the same time, the Clinton administration was pushing Fannie and her brother Freddie Mac to buy more mortgages from low-income households.

The Clinton-era corruption, combined with unprecedented catering to affordable-housing lobbyists, resulted in today’s nationalization of both Fannie and Freddie, a move that is expected to cost taxpayers tens of billions of dollars.

And the worst is far from over. By the time it is, we’ll all be paying for Clinton’s social experiment, one that Obama hopes to trump with a whole new round of meddling in the housing and jobs markets. In fact, the social experiment Obama has planned could dwarf both the Great Society and New Deal in size and scope.

There’s a political root cause to this mess that we ignore at our peril. If we blame the wrong culprits, we’ll learn the wrong lessons. And taxpayers will be on the hook for even larger bailouts down the road.

But the government-can-do-no-wrong crowd just doesn’t get it. They won’t acknowledge the law of unintended consequences from well-meaning, if misguided, acts.

Obama and Democrats on the Hill think even more regulation and more interference in the market will solve the problem their policies helped cause. For now, unarmed by the historic record, conventional wisdom is buying into their blame-business-first rhetoric and bigger-government solutions.

While government arguably has a role in helping low-income folks buy a home, Clinton went overboard by strong-arming lenders with tougher and tougher regulations, which only led to lenders taking on hundreds of billions in subprime bilge.

Market failure? Hardly. Once again, this crisis has government’s fingerprints all over it.

Quote””””Corporations are expected to raise those margins first and foremost for the “SHAREHOLDERS”, not Joe-the-Employee. There is no such thing as a legitimate and fair “trickle down” when the focus on gross profits comes from an external influence such as “shareholders”. Corporations will skimp on your raise & benefits as much as possible all the while ensure golden parachutes in the hundreds of millions for the CEOs.”””

Your right, in a publicly traded company, the unfortunate truth is the Shareholders do come first. Employees of publicly traded companies should know this, but most are enticed by the benifits that a large corporation can offer that a small business cannot. REMEMBER though, nobody holds a gun to anyones head forcing them to work for a large publicly traded company. Employees that CHOOSE to work for large publicly traded companies need to take the good with the bad….

You also said,

QUOTE “You might say small businesses are not incorporated. Ah, but how much of the above principle applies in a similar manner? In a capitalistic society, the hesitation to “trickle down” fairly inherently applies everywhere. It isn’t until a significant crack in the workforce’s well-being (and subsequently threats to Joe-the-Entrpreneur’s own business), are those capitalistic greedy ways curtailed to recognize the contributions of the people that helped reached that financial success”

The major thing you don’t understand about capitalism is COMPETITION. In the REAL WORLD, if a owner of a small business treats his or her employees poorly, those employees have the option of quitting and getting a job where they feel they are treated right. If that business owner continues to treat his or her employees poorly, they won’t last long in business!! Any business owner knows that without happy employees, or as you say “trickle down”, success and longevity is not possible. In a capitalistic society, competition forces small business owners to “take care” (trickle down) of key employees in order to retain them and keep them from going down the street and working for someone else.

The major point I want to make is that in this GREAT NATION, we all have a choice. Our FREEDOM allows that. If you want to work for a large publicly traded company you can! If you want to work for a small family owned business you can! If you want to start your own business because you think you can do it better, well you have that CHOICE also. That is what makes this COUNTRY so F’N GREAT! Our FREEDOM also allows people who sit on there asses to bitch and complain and blame all their problems on someone else….like I said, sometimes you have to take the good with the bad…

Hoyt, I understand Capitalism, you don’t! Either does Obama!!!

2nd Generation Small Business Owner
Started in 1972 (going on 37 years!)
1 current employee onboard for 17 years
1 current employee onboard for 6 years
1 current employee onboard for 5 years
Can’t even count how many have gone on to start their own businesses.

Hey, Jeff. If you think that Obama is socialist, what do you think of Bush & McCan’t. Don’t they favor ownership of banks, insurance companies, and soon car manufacturers by the government? Everything bankrupt has to be owned by the government with taxpayers money!!! Difficult to be more socialist. The republicans are redistributing our wealth to incompetent people and corporations!!! In addition all McCain campaign is negative and misleading because he as nothing new to propose and offer.

A Guy named Joe, who happens to be a plumber with ambitions for a bigger business, questioned and challenged a Guy named Barrack, who happens to be running for President of the US/Leader of the Free World…

And within 24 hours the Media has given us more information about Joe’s life than they’ve given us about Barracks life in the past 18 months.

Thanks to a diligent press corps, we now know about Joes professional licensing status, his income tax situation, his employment history, his domestic squabbles, his voting record, everything associated with his personal identity; his education…. Its probably been reported somewhere whether he wears boxers or briefs.

Thanks to a lazy press corps…We still dont know what grades Obama made in college; how he got into Harvard; when he met Bill the bomber Ayers; when he stopped doing illegal drugs; his medical history; whether he still smokes cigarettes; the extent of his affiliation with socialist/communist organizations; why hes no longer a licensed attorney; whether he lied on his Bar application; Whether hed qualify for a security clearance if he were just an average Joe; what passport he used to travel to Pakistan in 1981; who his ex-girlfriends are; whether he was or still is an Indonesian citizen; why his Kenyan grandmother insists he was born there; whether he was ever legally named Barry Soetoro or anything else besides Barack Hussein Obama—–; Why he needed the help of a crook to purchase his family home; where he was on Nov. 6 and 7, 1999; what the long-version of his birth certificate says; why he helped an anti-American, pro-Islamic candidate for Kenyan President against US interests; why he listened to Rev. Wrights sermons for 20 years; how many times he took his kids to a Rev. Wright sermon; what he actually did as chair of the Annenberg Challenge; the depth of his relationship with ACORN…

Well, you get the idea.

But, really, I am SO relieved that the Mainstream Media has done its job vetting Joe The Plumber, who is NOT running for public office, but who had the AUDACITY to challenge Barrack Hussein Obama, who wants my vote for President of the United States of America.”

Your head is so far up your ass it is beyond belief. Vote for this idiot and should he be elected I can’t wait for the day you and your fellow bong heads cry about how fucked up this country has become. Further, in my opinion, his name should be “Osama” ….. does that prove I am prejudice? Again when all else fails one must always play the race card. Further, again in my humble opinion, the vast majority of Osama’s voter base is voting for him strictly because he is Black.

Richard,

I hardly believe any Republican could be considered a “socialist” when our main intent in life is to get Government out of our lives! Both Bush and McCain, in my opinion, are fucking up by doing any Bail Outs. As I have stated before we should let the natural attrition take place here and let this whole mess crash and burn. Further, if you do something other than listen to the Messiah Obama you will realize the US is not “buying banks or car companies or the Bond or Securities Market(s)” they are making LOANS to these organizations. If one will recall the Feds stepped in with another car manufacturer, Chrysler many years ago, with a similar LOAN. Chrysler, under the leadership of Lee Iacocca, repaid the loan years early and has continued to prosper this many years later.

As for the case scenario if Osama wins the election ….. I already have plans in place for my companies to offset his rob and tax plans for American business and the American “Wealthy”.

Now if you will excuse me I have to get back to work and earn some money so I can continue to support Americans lazy and worthless with my “Tax Contributions”.

Charles,
I think your moral compass is so fucked up that you couldnt find your ass to wipe when you are sitting on the camode.

Wake up and smell the Folgers you arrogant nitwits, Obama is the worst thing this country could put into office right now. I dont give a f*ck about whether he is white, black, yellow or green, fuck Jesse Jackson this isnt about race now. This is about what is the best choice for The President of The United States for the next four year (4). Maybe you and some of your little Obama loving chronies should take a trip to the dark side ( what yall see as Republicans) and see that they have WAY more to offer this country than Obama and his Jackass political party has to offer. He has two (2) years in Senate, John McCain has how many? Over twenty (20)???? Has Obama ever served his country ? No Has McCain? YES,Oh and while he was shot down not once but twice ( yes 2 times) and then captured and placed in an imprisonment camp did he walk away and leave his fellow soldiers behind? No John McCain stood their and helped out his fellow soldiers while in the hands of the enemy. Do you think baby Obama would have done this? NO F*CKING WAY. I am sorry how can you vote for someone who doesnt even show PROOF of being a legal natural born citizen? How can you vote for someone who is being sued and holding the lawsuit off until after the election because he doesnt have proof of being a natural born citizen? They are trying to prove right now, as we type our little hearts out, that he has a falsified birth certificate. His mother, sisters, brothers, etc. all claim he was born in Kenya. HMMMMM

I am sorry but Obama even without the taxation situation is just a very poor choice to have. Wake the f*ck up everyone. Where did this guy even come from? Have you read any of his books? Have you heard any of the comments he makes about this country? Like this comment here ” The United States IS A GREAT COUNTRY AND I WILL CHANGE IT”….Yes that is Obama everyone. If this country is so f*cking great then why the hell does he need to change it? Go back to f*cking Kenya Obama, we dont have room for someone like you in this country especially the way the economy is right now and all you want to do is make it worse.

Now to Mrs. Obama, I notice she is giving Sarah Palin a bunch of shit because she spent money on a new wardrobe. Ok so she spent money on a lot of clothes (a truckload by the way)… Now if you search for Mrs. Obamas lunch at a hotel a few days ago you will see her and Obama got a little hungry and wanted a “SNACK”…OK well this snack consisted of a bill at over 400$ becaus ethey wanted a midday snack. Yes lobster tails!!!!!!!! Now hmmm they do not need lobster tails as a snack, I eat snacks, I eat Fruit Roll-Ups, Hersheys Bars, Dr. Peppers, Cheerios, etc, I do not eat 400$ Lobster tails. Sarah Palin bought something that can be used for year and years not something that is only good for a few minutes. I am sorry this is a double sided system and its f*cked. But the Media will not show the Democrat side having any flaws because the media itself is so democratic that its not even funny.

Im sorry I cant deal with this shit any longer. All you Obama supporters you are making a horrible choice with this election. But thank god for the 1st amendment and my right to bear arms, oh wait if Obama gets in he will not Veto the AMD and will take away our 2nd amendment which inturn will not allow us to have weapons and will have no way to defend our homes and families. Im sorry if you cant see why he is a bad choice you have way more issues than I can help you with,

Conrad & Jeff. You confirmed that you are both prejudiced. The country is already bankrupt by the republicans. Cant be worse. . Conrad, stay tuned to the news because all questions about Obama are already answered since several months. Wake up. Jeff, you state that people vote Obama because he is black? Very funny. FYI, 78% of whites between 18 and 25 support Obama. Polls state that Obama leads by 8 to 10 points. Do you think that all Obama supporters are black? More than 50% of the population is black??? When you state that you have to pay for the lazy people, you probably mean that the american middle class is lazy! Shame on you. . You care only about yourself thinking you are superior and deserve to pay less % taxes than your employees. I am white and I make more than 250 K a year. I support Obama because it’s not about me but about the country. McCain has no clue about real life, economy, healthcare and good foreign policy. And I am pretty sure your personal income tax return shows less than 250 K. So, thinking only about your own interest, you should vote Obama.

Rhoades – I understand capitalism. Competition is a fundamental foundation wall to its success. (Thanks for adding that to the list above).

Banks should be competing for the mortgages instead of McCain’s heavy-handed government buy-out.

A bank will quickly learn that they either need to sell the paper to another bank that can make it work

-or-

The lending bank must work with the lender to get a reasonable new rate so the bank is not caught with the loan AND the house that is difficult to sell in this economy.

-or-

Find the new, responsible buyer if the original owner was never fit for a mortgage to begin with.

Competition is good. Where is the competition in McCain’s heavy-handed government buy-back?

———————-

The wardrobe topic surfaces again. The same topic that caused the McCain campaign’s in-fighting to reach a boiling point. A point in which one of their own called the VP candidate a “diva”.

Take the campaign in-fighting and add the droves of high profile conservatives declaring they will vote for Obama/Biden and/or asking for Palin to step down and you can see the Republican Party is IMPLODING.

Good. Good for the GOP. Good for the country!

Most of the people in this nation are just left and right of center, depending on the topic. The current GOP implosion is a welcomed sign that indicates a move to a more moderate leadership at the Federal level. Moderate leadership is the only effective way to govern this populous nation.

How can Americans expect John McCain to effectively work “across the aisle” if he can’t even manage a campaign without numerous members of the same party declaring a vote for the other party and/or asking for his running mate to step down?

————————-

At one point in time Theordore Roosevelt was a Republican. His tax plan was a progressive tax plan that called for slightly higher taxes on the wealthier population. Are you going to call Roosevelt’s legacy socialistic?

“As a matter of personal conviction, and without pretending to discuss the details or formulate the system, I feel that we shall ultimately have to consider the adoption of some such scheme as that of a progressive tax on all fortunes, beyond a certain amount, either given in life or devised or bequeathed upon death to any individual — a tax so framed as to put it out of the power of the owner of one of these enormous fortunes to hand on more than a certain amount to any one individual; the tax of course, to be imposed by the national and not the state government.” – Theodore Roosevelt

“The man of great wealth owes a peculiar obligation to the State, because he derives special advantages from the mere existence of government. Not only should he recognize this obligation in the way he leads his daily life and in the way he earns and spends his money, but it should also be recognized by the way in which he pays for the protection the States gives him.”
– Theodore Roosevelt

You state about how 78% are 18 – 25…I have this arguement constantly. I undertsna dyou are in the lower tax bracket ok. Big deal. But I also am in college and see constantly when I ask people hwy they vote for Obama. Want to know why?

Cuz they claim McCain will die cuz he is old or cuz they dont like how he looks. Obama is younger and a minority etc. how fucked is that man?

Very intelligent comments by Hoyt. Jeff & Conrad are retarded. Yes, the republican party already imploded. Having Obama as President is the best opportunity for the GOP to reorganize with new faces. Bush was a tragedy for the country. Obama is going to accomplish beautiful things and help ALL of us. Obama for President.