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Lewis has retired three times from the lead this year. That's 75 points lost. ****.

Plus the Spanish Grand Prix when we was demoted from pole position to the back of the grid because of someone else's error in the pits (all the experts said that the fuel missing from Lewis' car gave him an extra tenth of a second, but his pole lap was five tenths up on everyone else anyway, so that wasn't the difference maker). Plus Maldonado running him off in Valencia when Hamilton probably could have finished fourth if I remember correctly (with Maldonado taking third if he was just a bit more patient).

That's over 100 points Hamilton could possibly have had, in a championship he lost by 90. Really disappointing to think about.

Originally Posted by LegendX

Here's to hoping Ferrari develop a better ****ing car next season

I'm sure they will, it's been too long for them. I still can't believe they didn't have a decent wind tunnel for most of the season, I thought that was a fairly standard piece of equipment for F1 teams so how Ferrari didn't have one is a mystery.

Vettel got so lucky with not being penalised for the crash at the start (but Hulkenburg did get penalised for an error which wasn't any worse), he didn't get penalised for overtaking under yellow flags, and Michael Schumacher pulled over and let him through when they were racing.

Fernando Alonso was robbed I think.

One last thing: Vettel said in an interview something about other teams trying underhanded tactics to try and beat Red Bull, I can only think he means the deliberate penalty Ferrari took in Austin. But that was not worse than Red Bull constantly breaking the rules (illegal floor and engine mapping), and Vettel leaving the track to get past people on multiple occasions (Button in Germany and Alonso in Italy are the two I remember, I'm sure there were one or two others). People were saying that Alonso was having all the luck at the beginning of the season but I never really saw it that way. I can't believe people aren't making a bigger deal of how lucky Vettel has been this season.

Plus the Spanish Grand Prix when we was demoted from pole position to the back of the grid because of someone else's error in the pits (all the experts said that the fuel missing from Lewis' car gave him an extra tenth of a second, but his pole lap was five tenths up on everyone else anyway, so that wasn't the difference maker). Plus Maldonado running him off in Valencia when Hamilton probably could have finished fourth if I remember correctly (with Maldonado taking third if he was just a bit more patient).

That's over 100 points Hamilton could possibly have had, in a championship he lost by 90. Really disappointing to think about.

I'm sure they will, it's been too long for them. I still can't believe they didn't have a decent wind tunnel for most of the season, I thought that was a fairly standard piece of equipment for F1 teams so how Ferrari didn't have one is a mystery.

Vettel got so lucky with not being penalised for the crash at the start (but Hulkenburg did get penalised for an error which wasn't any worse), he didn't get penalised for overtaking under yellow flags, and Michael Schumacher pulled over and let him through when they were racing.

Fernando Alonso was robbed I think.

One last thing: Vettel said in an interview something about other teams trying underhanded tactics to try and beat Red Bull, I can only think he means the deliberate penalty Ferrari took in Austin. But that was not worse than Red Bull constantly breaking the rules (illegal floor and engine mapping), and Vettel leaving the track to get past people on multiple occasions (Button in Germany and Alonso in Italy are the two I remember, I'm sure there were one or two others). People were saying that Alonso was having all the luck at the beginning of the season but I never really saw it that way. I can't believe people aren't making a bigger deal of how lucky Vettel has been this season.

Anyway, Button for the win in 2013

People are stupid. Alonso very rarely had any luck, it was more him being the best driver in the world than having anything to do with luck. Malaysia proved that on a level playing field, Alonso is truly in a class of his own. The simple fact that the championship race went down to the final race is further proof of just how much better Alonso is, considering he did it in such an inferior car, one in which car the likes of Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull were better than Ferrari, Hell, you could even argue that Sauber Ferrari was better, or just as good, as Ferrari. That's something that shouldn't happen, ever.

I just hope, that to a degree, Ferrari gave up on developing the 2012 car too much, and focused on the development of the 2013 car.

People are stupid. Alonso very rarely had any luck, it was more him being the best driver in the world than having anything to do with luck. Malaysia proved that on a level playing field, Alonso is truly in a class of his own. The simple fact that the championship race went down to the final race is further proof of just how much better Alonso is, considering he did it in such an inferior car, one in which car the likes of Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull were better than Ferrari, Hell, you could even argue that Sauber Ferrari was better, or just as good, as Ferrari. That's something that shouldn't happen, ever.

I just hope, that to a degree, Ferrari gave up on developing the 2012 car too much, and focused on the development of the 2013 car.

In all seriousness...imagine Alonso in that Red Bull...

he woudl ahve been champions with 7 races to go.
Same for Hamilton.

Button would have won the thing too.

and webber woudl win if the team gave him the saqme treatment that they do to posh boy, for crying out loud, webber was ROBBED by the TEAM of it two years ago.

People are stupid. Alonso very rarely had any luck, it was more him being the best driver in the world than having anything to do with luck. Malaysia proved that on a level playing field, Alonso is truly in a class of his own. The simple fact that the championship race went down to the final race is further proof of just how much better Alonso is, considering he did it in such an inferior car, one in which car the likes of Mercedes, McLaren, Red Bull were better than Ferrari, Hell, you could even argue that Sauber Ferrari was better, or just as good, as Ferrari. That's something that shouldn't happen, ever.

I just hope, that to a degree, Ferrari gave up on developing the 2012 car too much, and focused on the development of the 2013 car.

In all seriousness...imagine Alonso in that Red Bull...

People's point was that Alonso was lucky that guys like Hamilton and Vettel were having problems and retiring from races. I thought it was more a case of Ferrari doing a better job of building a more reliable car than Alonso being lucky.

As for Vettel and the flags, they put a video up on Sky Sports which shows he might not have passed under yellows after all. He followed Kobayashi through a few corners but there actually was a flashing green board after two or three of the yellow ones, which is where Vettel started his move. There were some more yellow ones after that but I think Vettel had already started his move, so it would have been a pretty harsh penalty.

I still don't know how he escaped the one for wiping Senna out though. Speaking of him, it's disappointing to see him out of the Williams team. I didn't think he did too bad this year.

There are rumours though that Rubens Barrichello might be back in F1 next season, in a Caterham. I'd love it if it were true, Barichello is the man and I can't believe there was no seat for him this season. Unfortunately though, that would rule Kovalainen out of Caterham and it doesn't appear there's a seat higher up the grid for him. The only one I can think of is Force India, but I think they're only looking at Adrian Sutil, Jaime Alguersuari and Senna (that's from Sky Sports).

Ferrari want to establish whether there is enough evidence to lodge a protest that, if successful, could overturn the result of the Formula 1 world championship.
They are "evaluating footage" that appears to show Red Bull's Sebastian Vettel making an illegal overtaking move in Sunday's Brazilian Grand Prix.

Spain's Fernando Alonso lost the title by three points to his German rival.
But Vettel could lose four points if he is deemed to have broken the rules.
Formula 1's governing body, the FIA, has so far refused to confirm that it is investigating the incident.

There is no word either from Vettel's Red Bull team, who could not be contacted for a comment.

Video footage from Vettel's on-board camera appears to show him passing Toro Rosso's Jean-Eric Vergne in a yellow 'caution' zone on lap four of Sunday's race.

If that is the case and if any protest is made and upheld, it could result in a retrospective 20-second penalty for the German.

That would drop the 25-year-old from sixth to eighth, costing him valuable points and a third successive world title.

Alonso, who finished the race at Interlagos in second place behind Jenson Button, would then top the standings by a single point.

The 31-year-old Alonso, who was world champion in 2005 and 2006, is believed to be pushing Ferrari to make an official protest to the FIA.

However, the governing body does not need Ferrari to act to investigate further. In fact, its own rules appear to oblige it to do so.

Article 179b of the international sporting code says: "If, in events forming part of an FIA championship, a new element is discovered, whether or not the stewards of the meeting have already given a ruling, these stewards of the meeting or, failing this, those designated by the FIA must meet… summoning the party or parties concerned to hear any relevant explanations and to judge in the light of the facts and elements brought before them."

It adds: "The period during which an appeal in review may be brought expires on 30 November of the year during which the decision that is liable to review has been handed down, if that decision is likely to have an effect on the result of a championship."

That appears to give the FIA until Friday to resolve the situation one way or another.
Drivers must proceed with caution and overtaking is strictly forbidden in a yellow zone - indicated by yellow flags and flashing trackside yellow lights.

If a driver is caught overtaking in a yellow-flag zone, the punishment is either to drive through the pits at restricted speed if the race is still under way, or 20 seconds added to a driver's race time if the incident takes place close to the end of the race or is investigated after the race.

The footage in question was not shown on the main global 'world feed' during the race as it was showing repeats of the start at the time.

However, it has since been posted on the video-sharing site YouTube.

The video is now available to watch on the BBC Sport website and is embedded at the top of this article.

The footage shows Vettel passing two flashing yellow lights then overtaking Vergne down the straight, completing the move before reaching a flashing green light, indicating the end of the yellow zone.

Rules dictate that the 'yellow' zone ends only when the driver passes the first 'green' indicator.

Drivers are alerted to caution zones by an indicator on their car's dashboard display.

The yellow flag indicator in Vettel's cockpit is on the whole time.

If there is any discrepancy between what is displayed on a driver's dashboard and what is being displayed on the track, then the trackside flags and lights take precedence.

It is possible that Vettel thought he was free to overtake Vergne because he saw a marshal waving a green flag at the exit of the pit lane. In other words, before he made his manoeuvre.

A green flag is waved by a marshal at that post as Vettel passes the Marussia of Charles Pic on lap three, but it is not clear whether it was still being waved on lap four.

Some videos have appeared on the internet that seem to show an official waving a green flag but it is not clear on official television footage.

The likelihood of any protest being lodged or of any action being taken depends on whether Ferrari or the FIA can establish whether there was a green flag waving at that marshals' post at that time.

If there was, the case will be closed and no further action will be taken. If there was not a green flag, it is highly likely that the case will go before the FIA Court of Appeal.

Under a strict interpretation of the rules, the Court of Appeal would seem to have little option in that scenario to impose a penalty.

But it may well feel it has to evaluate how much of an effect on the result of the race a drive-through penalty for Vettel at the time would have had.

BBC Sport asked the FIA:
- If the stewards of the Brazilian Grand Prix had investigated the incident in question during the race.
- If there was a green flag waved on lap four at the marshals' post on the inside of the track after the exit of Turn Three.
- If the FIA was now investigating the incident.

Long ****ing article, I gave up eventually I know that if Vettel does get stripped (unlikely) that every single Ferrari hater in the world will ***** and moan claiming a conspiracy, saying that F1 and the FIA favor Ferrari and Alonso.

Long ****ing article, I gave up eventually I know that if Vettel does get stripped (unlikely) that every single Ferrari hater in the world will ***** and moan claiming a conspiracy, saying that F1 and the FIA favor Ferrari and Alonso.

Dont worry.

Fia is not gonna favour An Italian brand with an Spanish Driver with a greek chief ingenieer..

Fia is not gonna favour An Italian brand with an Spanish Driver with a greek chief ingenieer..

You know.

"P.i.g.s " are not liked that much.

It's always a conspiracy with you...

Anyway, I read today that Ferrari wrote to the FIA seeking clarification. As far as I'm aware there has been no formal complaint. The FIA said that Vettel's move was legal due to a marshal waving a green flag on the inside of one of the corners. That marshal is mentioned in the article I posted. I couldn't see him to be honest but there doesn't seem to be any real doubt about him being there, it's probably just the quality of the video which is making him hard to see

EDIT: There's a video up on Sky Sports now explaining it and I can just about make out the marshal waving the green flag. I pretty much agree with the FIA that there's no case for Vettel to answer for really, the Vergne and Kobayashi incidents certainly looked fishy at first but on closer viewing it appears Vettel did nothing wrong. So hats off to him for a great drive, which started after the Senna crash

I do find it funny that people accused the FIA of going on a witch hunt against Red Bull earlier in the season when Red Bull were clearly trying to bend the rules, but whenever the team doesn't get penalised for something, people accuse the FIA of favouring their 'golden boy' They're damned if they do and damned if they don't...