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Ahmadinejad Wins Rigged Iranian Election

The Iranian elections are over. For the most part they were quiet boring but then in the final weeks, things got very interesting.

We have never seen such a campaign in the 30 year history of the Iranian Islamic Republic. Usually elections are carefully choreographed from start to finish. The candidates are vetted and chosen by the powerful 12 member Guardian Council (which is not an elected body itself). There is a lot of the usual rhetoric in ads but no debates and at finally, at voting time, the majority of the public either stays at home or casts an empty protest vote.

This election however was different. In the final weeks, Tehran and other major cities took on a carnival feel with the youth using the pretense of campaigning for their chosen candidate to raise a little hell. They stayed up all night, played music, paraded through the streets showing off themselves and their banners on foot, on bikes and in cars.

This election had the first televised debate between the 4 carefully vetted candidates in the 30 year history of ‘Islamic democracy’. Everyone was expecting the usual soporific hour of national television but what they got instead was a total drag out, hard knuckle fight with many punches thrown below the belt.

Ahmadinejad crossed many socially unacceptable lines and named names. Iranian propaganda portrays the government as spotless. But Ahmjadinejad pointed out that his main opponent, Mousavi, was backed by Rafsanjani. He went on to accused his former rival of massive corruption. He dragged Rafsanjani’s sons into the fray saying that they have also amassed large fortunes by fraud. He dragged Mousavi’s wife into the debate by claiming that her academic degrees are meaningless. He accused his opponents of belonging to a cabal that wants to stop him because they want to be in power and steal from the national coffers.

Things got so heated that Rafsanjani, a very powerful power broker now operating mostly from the periphery, wrote a sternly worded letter of protest to Khamenei (the Supreme Leader) asking for his intervention.

If you were watching the final days with your friends through the Western media, you got the sense that some real change was afoot. There were raucous groups of youth wrapped in green ribbons (the color of Mousavi’s campaign – he is a Siyyid) chanting “Ahmadi-Bye-Bye”. You also discovered which of your friends is gullible.

What those expecting change missed is that northern Tehran is not the whole country. Ahmadinejad had toured through all of Iran handing out cold hard cash to poor families throughout his years as president. The rural vote in Iran always trumps the urban elite.

Oh and there’s another little thing that guaranteed Ahmadinejad would continue the two terms streak all previous presidents have enjoyed: the vote was rigged.

Since Iran is a diverse nation, the normal pattern of votes would have the results sway back and forth as regional results came in. Especially considering that the four candidates came from different part of the country. Mousavi, an Azari (who speaks Turkish fluently and has a clumsy grasp of Farsi), was a clear home town favourite in Azerbaijan (25% of the Iranian population are Azaris). There are no reliable statistics (the Interior Ministry said 85%) but there is much anecdotal evidence that this election had an extremely high voter turnout.

But the ‘official’ results would have us believe that Ahmadinejad beat Mousavi with the same 2-1 margin everywhere, including his opponent’s home province! and maintained this margin at each interval of vote counting!

All Iranian election results have been suspect but this latest farce is so transparent that it demonstrates just how comfortable the clerical ruling class has become. They do not even attempt to hide their control of the election. They have totally thrown off any previous dedication to the appearance of legitimacy. As you might expect, there are some who are protesting the results but expect the Revolutionary Guards (who were already put on high alert) to ruthless crush any uprisings as they have in the past.

If it wasn’t before, it is all too evident now that all Iranians are now prisoners in a totalitarian state. As I’ve said many times before, it is my ardent wish that fellow Baha’is in Iran realize the danger that they especially are in and leave so that they and their children can enjoy civilization.

an other 14 centuries and will fight the satanic islam in Iran14 centries of barbaric pagan unhuman cult of muhammadan islam

kavoos

What we saw at the hand of the Arabs, / with one troop (they) weakend the religion and killed the kings, / (they have killed) our king and among those Iranians, / their religion is in the manner of the demons, they eat bread like the dogs / the took sovereignty from the renowned kings, / not by skill, not by manliness, / but through mockery and scorn, / through oppressiveness, they took from the people, / women and sweet property, gardens and orchards, / they have placed poll-tax, divided it over the heads, / they have sought the cloth (and) heavy tribute, / behold how much evil that demon has cast in this world, / there is no more evil than they in the world, / â€¦ then we will bring revenge on the Arabs, / in the manner which Rustam brought a hundred revenge of Siyawash, / we will destroy the mosques, establish fires, / we will raze idol-temples and blot them from the world, / till evil gets destroyed, the evil creatures from the world. (p. 103-104)

from sassanian iran

majnoon

?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????

???? ????? ????? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ???? ???? ??? ????

?? ??? ???? ?????? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?????? ? ????? ??? ??? ????…

farhan

Baquia wrote: it is my ardent wish that fellow Bahaâ€™is in Iran realize the danger that they especially are in and leave so that they and their children can enjoy civilization.

Baqauia, thanks for these important informations; my ardent wish is that they and we might fully participate during our earthly lives in whatever is God's plan for the renewal of civilisation, in Iran and elsewhere.

mina

Golden rule??

not the case of islam

Baquia

yes I get it Farhan, you want them to stay in Iran, to suffer, to be persecuted and perhaps to be killed. on the other hand, I would like them to live. yes we each have our version of the Golden Rule. one perverted, the other not.

â€?Woe to those . . . who, when they have to receive by measure from men, exact full measure, but when they have to give by measure or weight to men, give less than dueâ€?

* The Qur'an commends “those who show their affection to such as came to them for refuge and entertain no desire in their hearts for things given to the (latter), but give them preference over themselves”

* â€?None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.â€?

* “Seek for mankind that of which you are desirous for yourself, that you may be a believer; treat well as a neighbor the one who lives near you, that you may be a Muslim [one who submits to God].”

* â€?That which you want for yourself, seek for mankind.â€?

* “The most righteous of men is the one who is glad that men should have what is pleasing to himself, and who dislikes for them what is for him disagreeable.”

“None of you [truly] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.” Number 13 of Imam “Al-Nawawi's Forty Hadiths.”

farhan

No, Baquia, I am saying that we can let everyone choose for themselves, as we wish to choose for ourselves : you, I, and them, according to the priorities we set concerning the aim of our lives in this world.

What is perverted is when you consider with scorn people who do not adopt your vision of life in this world.

Baquia

They are already choosing in droves by leaving Iran – check the link above. But Baha'is like you who are safe and sound living in a free democratic society are asking your fellow Baha'is through sweet empty rhetoric to stay in harms way. If we are to allow them to choose for themselves why is the ITC/UHJ encouraging Iranian Baha'is to stay? why are they not helping them to leave Iran the way they did after the 1979 revolution?

farhan

Baquia wrote: why are they not helping them to leave Iran the way they did after the 1979 revolution?

Baquia, I appreciate your kind attention, and if I had family in Iran, I would have no doubt offered my assistance long ago to help them leave. But at the same time, I admire and approve of the choice of those who choose to stay and serve in Iran, as that of my family who chose to migrate in Africa in 1952, as my children respected my choice to pioneer, and that of a fire-man who volunteers to help people in a burning house, and that of a government who chooses to announce the need for volunteers as fire-men. My idea of reciprocity is not to scorn other peopleâ€™s choices, as I wish not to be scorned in mine.

My guess is that the BWC considers that a favourable outcome is nearer for them now than 30 years ago.

Baquia

What if they are wrong? As they have been for these past years? Iran has gotten worse and worse. This wasn't difficult to foresee at all. Rather easy to live in a comfortable liberal democracy and to “approve” of those who are in harms way.

farhan

Baquia wrote: What if they are wrong?Baquia, this is not an area reason, but one of inspiration, belief, faith and hope. We make choices every moment of our lives, and at one point beyond available data, we enter an area of unknown. At this point, some refer to coffee cups, dice or cards; others to chakras, horoscopes and still others include a part of Faith based on the writings, consultation and prayer.

It so happens that I was uprooted at a young age and I can move around more easily than others. Comfortably established somewhere, you obviously underestimate the discomfort involved in becoming exiled. It can be a social death to which some prefer dying in their native land. The choice can be difficult, but is theirs and the consolation of serving the Faith is one element in that decision.

Baquia

Ah, ok so you're just winging it by the seat of your pants… while the lives of people are at stake. I get it. Thanks for clarifying.

mina

really?

helper

048.029YUSUFALI: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against Unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other. Thou wilt see them bow and prostrate themselves (in prayer), seeking Grace from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure. On their faces are their marks, (being) the traces of their prostration. This is their similitude in the Taurat; and their similitude in the Gospel is: like a seed which sends forth its blade, then makes it strong; it then becomes thick, and it stands on its own stem, (filling) the sowers with wonder and delight. As a result, it fills the Unbelievers with rage at them. Allah has promised those among them who believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness, and a great Reward.PICKTHAL: Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves. Thou (O Muhammad) seest them bowing and falling prostrate (in worship), seeking bounty from Allah and (His) acceptance. The mark of them is on their foreheads from the traces of prostration. Such is their likeness in the Torah and their likeness in the Gospel – like as sown corn that sendeth forth its shoot and strengtheneth it and riseth firm upon its stalk, delighting the sowers – that He may enrage the disbelievers with (the sight of) them. Allah hath promised, unto such of them as believe and do good works, forgiveness and immense reward.SHAKIR: Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

maurizio

Golden rule??

what about consistency??

kill bahais whenever you find:Allah=muhammad=gabriel=satan

047.004YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish. ……003.028YUSUFALI: Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.PICKTHAL: Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. Whoso doeth that hath no connection with Allah unless (it be) that ye but guard yourselves against them, taking (as it were) security. Allah biddeth you beware (only) of Himself. Unto Allah is the journeying.SHAKIR: Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers; and whoever does this, he shall have nothing of (the guardianship of) Allah, but you should guard yourselves against them, guarding carefully; and Allah makes you cautious of (retribution from) Himself; and to Allah is the eventual coming. —–

009.123YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).SHAKIR: O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness; and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

—–047.004YUSUFALI: Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks; At length, when ye have thoroughly subdued them, bind a bond firmly (on them): thereafter (is the time for) either generosity or ransom: Until the war lays down its burdens. Thus (are ye commanded): but if it had been Allah's Will, He could certainly have exacted retribution from them (Himself); but (He lets you fight) in order to test you, some with others. But those who are slain in the Way of Allah,- He will never let their deeds be lost.PICKTHAL: Now when ye meet in battle those who disbelieve, then it is smiting of the necks until, when ye have routed them, then making fast of bonds; and afterward either grace or ransom till the war lay down its burdens. That (is the ordinance). And if Allah willed He could have punished them (without you) but (thus it is ordained) that He may try some of you by means of others. And those who are slain in the way of Allah, He rendereth not their actions vain.SHAKIR: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others; and (as for) those who are slain in the way of Allah, He will by no means allow their deeds to perish.

mina

you like nine??

so read sura 9

this is a hate manifesto

http://twitter.com/Starrsaffa Starr* Saffa

What's the difference between Bush's placement and Ahmadinejad'S? Mousavi says the 'elete” will continue to control him, as is the case world-wide. Now media is saying multidues are cheering Ahmadinejads re-election. What's up and what's down. No wonder Tahirih called for the end of it all and the beginning of something entirely new (which will end the power of the elite).

“Tahirih Divine Voice” Trailerhttp://vimeo.com/5128549“The Spiritual Leader, with the titles of Tahirih Qurratu'l-ayn, began the emancipation of women in Iran in 1844 and her Voice rings out again today to continue the process She set in motion.

With spiritual authority She ended the past outdated systems and opened the portal for a new universal cycle now dawning.

Right now in Iran the 41 women who applied as candidates for Presidency have been barred by their Council to run according to a video Dr. Juan Cole has on his site in conjunction with his book 'Engaging the Muslim World'. The young want a government which stands for justice and equality. Tahirih's Dream is True and will continue to unfold as Justice becomes founded on equality. 60% at Uni in Iran are now women, contrasted to Her day when women were not educated.

Baquia, I am sorry my English is not good enough to understand your sarcasm “â€¦winging it by the seat of your pants… “, but in any case, why should the Bahaâ€™is extend help to their fellow believers and not to the millions of others who suffer on this planet?

farhan

Thanks, Starr for these precious links

Rahman

read above to understandbahai=muhammadan islam

shamful

what about 1979 UHJ and members of NSA of iran and all administation body of bahais

It is ashame for bahais to call muhammad the mass murderer the star of truth while his believers kill bahais

calling muhammad prophet of God

shame on all of you from your UHJ till las bahai in this earth

shame on you that study Iqan and other writings celebrating theglory of massmurderer pedophile worst of humanity Muhammad

shame on you

Baquia

ok we get it – your message is coming through. You've had your say on many different threads and in many different ways you've said your peace about this one single topic. I get it. This is important to you. From now on, I would like to kindly ask that you please do not spam the blog like this. Thank you.

shamfullll

this blog is a huge spamas is the bahaislam faith good night

Craig Parke

shamful,

You cannot judge an organized religion in world history by the conduct and mentality of the asshole people that actually claim they follow it! Everyone in world history has completely shamed and totally disgraced BOTH their religions and themselves lock, stock, and barrel. Christians and Muslims are equally world class in history for completely disgracing themselves by their own dysfunctional and completely mentally ill deranged behavior. You need to get out of the Middle East mentality more and kick back and get more “New Agey” about things. Read more Shirley MacLaine and Hermann Hesse. Maybe a little more Jefferson Airplane '69 for you.

Maybe you need to get your self a nice intelligent and interesting upscale girl friend from some other latitude on Earth. Maybe someone in the film business out in Hollywood? Get away from the brill-o pad and more to the silky if you catch my insight.

Or maybe get into Elvis some. Elvis is a Major World Religion in case you did not know.

Craig wrote: You cannot judge an organized religion in world history by the conduct and mentality of the asshole people that actually claim they follow it!

I fully agree, Craig, and we are not here to promote hatred and violence from one fifth of humanity against another fifth, but to find the basis of love and conciliation.

shamful

you do not know islam
you do not know Quran

shamful

you do not know islamyou do not know Quran

shame

From Tabari:The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, â€?Kill any Jew who falls under your power.â€™

The Messenger commanded that furrows should be dug in the ground for the Qurayza. Then he sat down. Ali and Zubayr began cutting off their heads in his presence.The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.

and from ibn ishaq

The Jews were made to come down, and Allahâ€™s Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina, and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men.

and this is your Bahaullah:

“Blessing and peace be upon Him [Muhammad] through Whose advent Bath?? [Mecca] is wreathed in smiles, and the sweet savours of Whose raiment have shed fragrance upon all mankind– He Who came to protect men from that which would harm them in the world below. Exalted, immensely exalted is His station above the glorification of all beings and sanctified from the praise of the entire creation. Through His advent the tabernacle of stability and order was raised throughout the world and the ensign of knowledge hoisted among the nations. May blessings rest also upon His kindred and His companions through whom the standard of the unity of God and of His singleness was uplifted and the banners of celestial triumph were unfurled. Through them the religion of God was firmly established among His creatures and His Name magnified amidst His servants.”

- Tablets of Baha'u'llah revealed after the Kitab-i-Aqdas, p. 162

?? asshole? who?

farhan

Shame, thanks for drawing attention to these historical reports. Again, I believe that we have to place facts in their historical context. I continue to believe that islam came to a savage environment and helped these pepole make three revelations forwards. Christianity came to what was already a highly sophisticated society.

In any case, whatever the historical facts, we have a vital task now of reconciling one fifth of humanity with another fifth of humanity and it is certainly not by stirring such historical reports that we are going to bring about universal peace. But again perhaps bringing about universal peace is not a priority to you?

farhan

Shame, this is the basis of all Baha'i teachings:O ye that dwell on earth! The distinguishing feature that marketh the preeminent character of this Supreme Revelation consisteth in that We have, on the one hand, blotted out from the pages of Godâ€™s holy Book whatsoever hath been the cause of strife, of malice and mischief amongst the children of men, and have, on the other, laid down the essential prerequisites of concord, of understanding, of complete and enduring unity. (Baha'u'llah, Gleanings XLIII)

For heaven's sake, I dont want Jews and Moslems to fight anymore. I want them to love each other and reconcile; Is this not also what you need? If so, why fan the flames?

http://twitter.com/masuds19 Masud Samandari

Christopher Hitchens' piece in Slate (“Don't Call What Happened in Iran Last Week an Election”) is the best article I've read so far on the election (it's certainly the best out of the articles cited on this page)

I think it summarizes the feelings of many Iranians over the past years; I would encourage anyone who hasn't read it yet to do so.

pey

Seriously Farhan? On another thread you were makin the opposite point in regards to why the AO speaks up about the abuse of the Bahais in Iran and Islamic countries, but not about the abuse of other peoples. Or even about the abuse of Bahais that took place under non-islamic regimes (such as the Cambodian Bahais under the Khmer Rouge). Please be consistent in your views if you can.

shame

Ah really?

For Baquia is SPAM

We will talk about it “Historical context” is a mantra of muhammadan muslims

shame

the basis is this:as bahai you accept a mass murderer as the Sun of Truth because Bahaullah said so and you never investigate although you have the obligation of investigating the truth as Bahaullah wants you bahais to do

I dont want Jews and Moslems to fight anymore

this is good but is not islam theology and belief.if you want to know the ayat of AlquranAlkarim please let me know

thanks for reading

Baquia

The latest news points to further fissures opening: the Guardian Council has asked all candidates to meet to discuss their grievances. As well, Khamanei who is more and more threatened, will give a sermon at Tehran university this Friday (the Muslim 'sabbath').

pey

I just heard on NPR today that Bahais can vote in Iran. Is that true? It must be since it was some rep from teh Bahai Int. Community office being interviewed. I had no idea. That just baffles me- all other civil rights are denied Bahais, but they are allowed to vote. Go figure.

Baquia

I think you just need ID (passport) to vote – I've seen many people who have voted holding on up their passport and inked finger. But more importantly, can you please provide a link to this NPR interview? It is the first time I hear of it. Thanks.

Baquia

Masud, yes that is a good article. But I wonder what Hitchens, a militant atheist, thinks of the battle cry 'Allah-u-Akbar' and the fact that the protesters do not want to overthrow the regime (at least yet) but just want their vote counted in a mock (s)election put on in a theocracy.

Craig Parke

This is an interesting link. It gives an overview of the various connections between the political turf involved.

“In theory, the supreme leader is appointed by a body of clerics whom voters elect. But in practice, this body — the Assembly of Experts — has answered to the supreme leader.”

Maybe that is kind of like the ITC now in the BAO which provides the official “approved” closed candidates list for the UHJ? “Everyone is equal but some are more equal than others” seems to be the operational concept. Does anyone know if this is an Islamic mindset or comes from the much longer and deeper history of the kings of Iran?

I'm just still amazed the horrible Islamic state of Iran that persecutes Bahais will allow the same apostates to vote. Yet in the Bahai community voting rights are removed from anyone that thinkgs differently. Go figure.

Craig Parke

Here is a fascinating article with very interesting comments given the situation in the world today:

Some really big shocks are coming upon Islamic societies and also upon the current version of the Baha'i Faith. From here on in the cosmic stakes are going up and the clueless will have no refuge.

The Kingdom of Heaven is going to other people. The key will be economic knowledge. Thinkers will be needed. This will leave current Islamic societies and the current version of the Baha'i Faith completely in the dust. It also may leave the United States completely in the dust too. We shall see.

What goes around, comes around.

Karma is a bitch. And stupidity does not help the situation.

Baquia

Thanks pey, I listened to it and I heard the NPR interviewer say that Baha'is can vote. Sabetan didn't say it but he also didn't object nor explain further when she mentioned that. I've added the link to the audio in the post as well as a few recent news about Khamenei's 'sermon' at Tehran university on Friday.

Martin Luther King once said – “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.” I believe that. The international community believes that. And right now, we are bearing witness to the Iranian peoples' belief in that truth, and we will continue to bear witness.'

The Promised Day will come for the people of the energies of the New World Age on this planet. It will come with or without the Baha'is under the current completely closed lifetime incumbent top down leadership. The existence of the archetype of self appointed clergy is finished on this planet in the Age that is coming. No more “Supreme Leaders”. Anywhere. Ever. Everyone in any kind of power will be held COMPLETELY ACCOUNTABLE to EVERY SOUL on Earth 24/7/365/1000 in the Age that is coming. Electorates everywhere are going to deepen and mature with the power of the Internet. Let those with ears to hear – hear the slow drip that will eventually become a mighty torrent.

If you seek knowledge, read this book and know that the Vortex of Heaven cannot be stopped.

Elections Donâ€™t Make Democracyâ€™A global voting monitor suggests that the outside world not jump to conclusions about Iran's vote.

—

By Kurt Soller | Newsweek Web ExclusiveJun 16, 2009

. . .So we turned to an expert to find out just how hard it is to run a fair election. After spending years in South Africa, and leading election-observation missions in the Congo and Ghana, John Stremlau knows how to ensureâ€”and fairly observeâ€”a democratic election, even in a country that might be conducting its first one. Now, as the vice president for peace programs at the Carter Center, he's working to ensure that independent election observation becomes the standard in all countries. He spoke to NEWSWEEK's Kurt Soller about the human-rights revolution, the ways to make an election run smoothly, and what happens when they don't go as planned. . . .[Q.] So it comes down to perception then, not whether the election was fair but whether civilians think it was fair.

. . . all democracies face a challenge if people don't feel their voices have been heard. Independent observers help make sure that happens. . . .[JS] Personally, I think the Obama administration had the right balance of signaling they're going to have to deal with who comes to power, and expressing their concern for those in Tehran. Frankly, I would have liked the electoral situation to be transparent, but this is for the Iranians to work out themselves. . . .I'm not calling on the Obama administration to pass judgment, especially since

[*] I'm intrigued by recent reports in the press that the results may not[*] have been too far off the mark.

This just points again to the real importance of having an international transparent election process.[end]

This of course supports the need for rapid movement toward a “real” world federation, based on postmodern/integral paradigms. (not a bogus bahai “new world order”)

Baquia

Take a look at the Chatham House pdf file (link above). It is exhaustive and pretty much seals the deal. As well, the results do not pass the 'random' nature of real numbers but are statistically proven to be made up – another link also above. Nice try but the devil's role is already taken by Khamanei and Ahmadinejad and their ilk.

fubar

Craig,

Thanks again for the most excellent observations.

When you say “Karma is a bitch”, I'm assuming that you mean that the way that western culture exhibits arrogance and hubris to the rest of the world is an unenlightened response to some fairly random historical circumstances (e.g., as explained by Jared Diamond) that allowed western culture to develop economic, scientific and military dominance?

And that such arrogance breeds decadence, complacency, weakness and a blindness to rapidly emerging competitive threats and new paradigms?

fubar

Perhaps, but without REAL data (which of course the Iranian govt will not release), I still smell something potentially fishy.

It is completely understandable that the supporters of the opposition desperaetly need the actual election results to factually support the corruption of the current powers.

In a perfect universe, the reformost/progressive forces in Iran would always be right.

Unfortunately it may not be easy to “prove” such.

For instance, perhaps the dominant faction of mullas saw that they would “only” win by 51%, and stupidly decided to skew the electoral results more strongly in their favor in hopes of putting the ordeal behind them?

Everyone here has an understandable bias of wanting reforms and progress. A realistic view may be that Iranian culture has not yet reached the “tipping point”. In which case, forcing reforms and progress could actually backfire, which unfortunately has happened over and over in these kinds of circumstances.

As Ken Wilber (and many others) have explained, “Revolution” means that power is simply “revolved” to another set of players on the same circular/paradigmatic level.

This is NOT the same thing as the evolutionary, upward movement of a society to a new paradigmatic level, where the “felt requirements” of the highest state of culture are legally protected against the formces of paradigm regression.

It is one thing to have a “revolution” in the power arrangements in Iran, but another for any “new players” to really embrace the high risk move to open democracy. There is a lot of entrenched, reactionary backwardness that has to be “healed”, and an unskilled set of revolutionary leaders could create a lot of instability if they gained power. This is presumably a legitimate fear that many people will have, and unless it is addressed, there night be more hesitancy than would otherwise be expected.

What would a reform government in Iran do to appease native fears of western imperialism and “godlessness” while not falling back into old, bad habits that over ineptitude and corruption with demonization of westerners?

Integral theory offers the necessary tools (subcomponent memes), but is there anyone in Iranian leadership that could use them? Are they even ready to move to the kind of postmodernism that Obama offers?

Craig Parke

It appears “Karma is a bitch” is the highest spiritual insight attainable at the current sorry functioning level of the planet. My country, the U.S. has certainly been the poster child as much as anyone else in world history. Everyone I know saw 9/11 coming (I even wrote a local letter to the editor to that effect in December 1999) but apparently no one in the U.S. government did. I was at a national meeting of an anti-war veterans group I belong to in August 2001. One guy had just copme back from Europe. He got up and said “You guys don't understand. Americans are living in a bubble. Americans are sound asleep. Something terrible is going to happen. The chatter is on the street everywhere else in the world.”

This is always true of everyone, everywhere. What is going to happen next in life is always as clear as the noon day sun if you just think about it. what is going to happen next in Iran is very clear. What is going to happen next in the Baha'i Faith is very clear. It is all archetypal judgment. All you have to do is read lots of C.G. Jung, the history and literature of the world, and Marvel Comics. The main thing in life right now is to study the big plays of the Pittsburgh Steelers over the years. That will tell you plenty about what is going to happen next. But neither the clueless in Iran or the clueless in other circles will ever understand the omens.

Move to the ball.

fubar

well, if the iranian mullas think that capitalism is “godless”, then one part of the solution would be to have “spiritual capitalism”.

Some hints that the idea of “spiritual capitalism” may be something fairly simpatico to some religious minorities in the USA, and that the ameican religious mainstream is capable of absorbing “occult” elements:

A Republic of Mind and Spirit:A Cultural History of American Metaphysical Religionby Catherine L. AlbaneseYale University Press, 640 pages

“If one is looking for a fascinating tour of the many sideshows of the carnival that is religion in America, Catherine L. Albanese is the guide you want. She is head of religious studies at the University of California, Santa Barbara, and has a big new book from Yale University Press, A Republic of Mind and Spirit: A Cultural History of American Metaphysical Religion. She would not be happy, however, to be described as a tour guide of religious sideshows, never mind freak shows. She intends to propose a very different way of understanding American religious history as a whole.”

“Jeffrey Kripal here recounts the spectacular history of Esalen, the institute that has long been a world leader in alternative and experiential education and stands today at the center of the human potential movement. Forged in the literary and mythical leanings of the Beat Generation, inspired in the lecture halls of Stanford by radical scholars of comparative religion, the institute was the remarkable brainchild of Michael Murphy and Richard Price. Set against the heady backdrop of California during the revolutionary 1960s, Esalen recounts in fascinating detail how these two maverick thinkers sought to fuse the spiritual revelations of the East with the scientific revolutions of the West, or to combine the very best elements of Zen Buddhism, Western psychology, and Indian yoga into a decidedly utopian vision that rejected the dogmas of conventional religion. In their religion of no religion, the natural world was just as crucial as the spiritual one, science and faith not only commingled but became staunch allies, and the enlightenment of the body could lead to the full realization of our development as human beings.”

Craig Parke

Fubar,

Thanks for the above excellent links! I will look into getting both books. I tell you the combination of these two below books on many very interesting levels is going to be the next big meme dynamic across many populations and strata of society in the world.

The people that understand how the analysis in these two books work together are already living in the future. Combine these insights with Weber's meme dynamics and thinkers will now be right up there with the high octane Iranian women who are now cutting edge in what is going to happen next in the world.

As I said, as far as Divine Geometry goes, this is where it is all going to go now to people of Cosmic insight.

Get ready. It is all going to be a very interesting. And, of course, all in Internet time.

Baquia

A very ingenious new tactic will be used by the protesters in Iran, see link re bazaar (marketplace).

Baquia

“perhaps the dominant faction of mullas saw that they would “only” win by 51%, and stupidly decided to skew the electoral results more strongly in their favor in hopes of putting the ordeal behind them?”

I suspect this was it. The clue for me was in Khamenei's sermon last Friday where he said that there may have been some irregularities but a majority of such magnitude by its very size proves that it could not have been manufactured. If you're going to lie, the one rule is to make it BIG. We will most probably never prove that the election was rigged but there is enough evidence to give a rational person reasonable doubt.

Craig Parke

When you speak for Allah as the Supreme Leader does, you can count 40 million votes in 2 hours. You have Divine Powers. You command time and space. You can bend forks with your mind power too.

Yeah. That's the ticket.

Same when you are factually infallible on everything too. You don't have to research anything or learn how to communicate with people or prudence or any skill at all in implementing your ideas and decisions. You are factually infallible. All you need is an infallibility certificate in writing somewhere and a Magic Eight Ball and you are good to go. No fuss and no muss. Just use the Magic Eight Ball and break for lunch. It's as simple as that. Nice and tidy.

But mine is telling me that Iran is in deep deep recently created biological matter and other organizations too. That is what my Magic Eight Ball is saying.

And mine can count votes too and declare the winners of elections centuries in advance.

Craig Parke

When you speak for Allah as the Supreme Leader does, you can count 40 million votes in 2 hours. You have Divine Powers. You command time and space. You can bend forks with your mind power too.

Yeah. That's the ticket.

Same when you are factually infallible on everything too. You don't have to research anything or learn how to communicate with people or prudence or any skill at all in implementing your ideas and decisions. You are factually infallible. All you need is an infallibility certificate in writing somewhere and a Magic Eight Ball and you are good to go. No fuss and no muss. Just use the Magic Eight Ball and break for lunch. It's as simple as that. Nice and tidy.