Ronack:- Catastrophically bad reveal conference- THE PRESS WEREN'T THE ONES CHEERING AT THE CONFERENCE- No B/C- Semi-Always Online- Can't work without Kinect- Live TV requires separate device and it's U.S. only- Second hand games fee may or may not be a thing, tho probably is since it was the VP of Microsoft who says it is the case. Though Xbox Support contradicted itself like a champ on their twitter on this matter.- Fee is price of full game, btw.- No replacable hard drive- Xbox One won't allow indy devs to self-publish games- Sony stocks go up, Microsoft stocks go down.- Fish. Moving out of the way.

It's safe to say that the Xbawks Juan is as good as dead unless Microsoft engages in a massive overhaul for E3. Or before E3 even.

Rest In Peace,Xbox. Remember when the 360 was DOMINATING the PS3? It had XBLA,some form of B/C,and even good games for it. Now? Talk about a role reversal. I like and respect MS and everything,but as it is now? I'd rather go for the system with more options. I also hear the Xbox One will have a porn streaming service. Just another sign they've thrown their hands in the air to give up. I think I'll wait for all this hooplah to die down,then see if I want one then. But then the Xbox One has 8 disadvantages,whereas the PS4 has 1. I think Nintendo and Sony got this. Captcha: "Options. In Your Hands." Indeed. I want options.

Ronack:- Catastrophically bad reveal conference- THE PRESS WEREN'T THE ONES CHEERING AT THE CONFERENCE- No B/C- Semi-Always Online- Can't work without Kinect- Live TV requires separate device and it's U.S. only- Second hand games fee may or may not be a thing, tho probably is since it was the VP of Microsoft who says it is the case. Though Xbox Support contradicted itself like a champ on their twitter on this matter.- Fee is price of full game, btw.- No replacable hard drive- Xbox One won't allow indy devs to self-publish games- Sony stocks go up, Microsoft stocks go down.- Fish. Moving out of the way.

It's safe to say that the Xbawks Juan is as good as dead unless Microsoft engages in a massive overhaul for E3. Or before E3 even.

Rest In Peace,Xbox. Remember when the 360 was DOMINATING the PS3? It had XBLA,some form of B/C,and even good games for it. Now? Talk about a role reversal. I like and respect MS and everything,but as it is now? I'd rather go for the system with more options. I also hear the Xbox One will have a porn streaming service. Just another sign they've thrown their hands in the air to give up. I think I'll wait for all this hooplah to die down,then see if I want one then. But then the Xbox One has 8 disadvantages,whereas the PS4 has 1. I think Nintendo and Sony got this. Captcha: "Options. In Your Hands." Indeed. I want options.

That PS4 advantage I assume is the lack of direct backwards compatibility? Because thats all I can think of off the top of my head, I mean if you don't like the "Share" button you can just ignore it. I'm no drooling facebook imbecile but I can certainly think of uses for the Share button: Glitches, for example, it's basically F12 for consoles...

Yeah...things will not change in a week or 3. MS was actually shocked people could give a shit less about that entire hour. An hour that they even pushed back a month just so they'll have enough content to fill an hour. Just so CoD could show up with a dog...I mean, instead of fixing the lag or game breaking bugs in all CoDs, they stuck a dog in a mocap suit so CoDogs could look more doggish at the Xbone reveal.

Now...on to the real business. After watching the Sony reveal Jimquisition, I said some bad, albeit truthful, things about Jim. I said there would be no ripping of MS and I was wrong....this time.

Stryc9:So, it turns out that German guy that was on my local news a few months ago was right. Microsoft needs to get out of the console market and go back to doing what they did best, making operating systems that people actually wanted to use, making productivity software that people actually wanted to use, and making some of the best PC hardware on the market. That, and occasionally shitting out some pretty decent PC games that when Microsoft was at it's height wasn't crippled with shit DRM like Games "not" for Windows Live.

I agree. That's what makes this thing kind of sad.

I don't want any of the big three developers to fail so hard that they have to fold, they have done good work in the past even if they have also made fuck awful decisions (then and now).

As a company Microsoft probably isn't going anywhere anytime soon, most of their products still sell reasonably well, well enough to keep them in business at least. The thing that it seems people are forgetting, and I'll let it slide a little bit because this is a gaming website, is that Microsoft's first priority ISN'T GAMING, they only really dipped their toe into in any real way when they released the first Xbox. Microsoft's main priority is Windows and Office and they used to make some damn good hardware, keyboards, mice and some of their joysticks were pretty damn good if you were right handed I guess, but they don't even really do hardware anymore.

The management at Microsoft has really just gone to shit over the last few years, they used to be the people that everyone tried to emulate and now they're the ones playing catch up. The two biggest reasons the Zune was such a flop was it was too late to the market and it was advertised so fucking horribly it's not even funny. They wasted somewhere around $3 million to pay Jerry Fucking Seinfeld to appear on the screen for about 20 seconds and say a bunch of shit that didn't even advertise the product let alone make any sense at all and that was it. If they had done pretty much anything else with that money the Zune would have been a contender until smartphones erased the need for a dedicated mp3 player, those things were fucking great, I'm on my second one though I now only really use it for podcasts.

MisterColeman:I watch sports in a bar or at a friend's. I don't play CoD. I also do not have a subscription to TV, and frankly I don't even like dogs. I play video and board games.

Clearly, as a gamer, I'm not their target demographic.

You're not their target demographic simply because you're a gamer. Microsoft doesn't care about us any more.

I have to sift through so much shit on my Xbox 360 dashboard just to find video game related content it's untrue. I can't imagine that getting any worse.

This is the exact same reason I hate smart phones; they do so much irrelevant stuff all at once that they actually forgot their core function is to be a phone.

I like my Iphone,(I'm on it a good deal,so yeah) But by that same token,I don't want the console that's supposed to be a Game console to be a TV. I already have a TV. Annoying,isn't it? You're right,though. They don't care. They just don't. Tragic,isn't it? I like this industry. I really do,but the stupid that goes on in it just baffles me sometimes. I'm clearly not their target demographic. I am a gamer,just not one that cares all that much for CoD or Battlefield. Platformers,Action-Adventure,Beat em ups,RPGs,THOSE are genres of games I like.

Professor Uzzy:Does anyone really expect that Microsoft are going to reveal 15 games at E3 exceptional enough to eradicate the memory of this failure of a launch? Anyone?

Frankly I'd be amazed if they didn't spend half the E3 Presentation talking up their awesome new system that lets Americans watch TV on their TV.

But remember! 8 of them will be brand new IPs! Presumably the rest will be made up of the likes of Fable, Halo, Gears of War and all the other tentpole X-Box franchises we have come to know.

Also, does anyone think that in the Quantum Break trailer, after the clip changes to a shot of a ship crashing into a bridge that the little girl pulls an egg out from behind her mums ear? The game is actually about the rise of a young street magician who eventually gets involved in a conspiracy that spans both time and space, which she must use her amazing sleight of hand abilities to get to the bottom of. That's what I'm going with for now, anyway.

I Went from PS2 to Xbox 360, mainly cause the PS3 was too expensive initially... when it shed its backwards compatibility (one of my main reasons for saving up for it) i had no reason to buy it. A cousin sold me his Xbox 360 for half price and i just built up my game library from there.

After several years i have Xbox Live content and a good library of games like Mass Effect, Cods and the Fallouts which i know i will play again in the future but I can't play these on Xbox One. I was going to get one just to have a machine to give these games a longer shelf life in case my 360 finally gives up the ghost, but no backwards compatibility...

Online registration... stupid idea (I See EA's filthy paw in this) .... i rent games before i buy. I also buy second hand games. Taking these options away from me isn't going to force me to buy more new games, it'll do the opposite, make me a more discriminating customer and less willing to take chances on new IP's. I bought Mass Effect 2 and 3 new because i bought Mass Effect 1 second hand. I also bought the Mass Effect 1 DLC. EA made a lot of money from one customer because their product was sold second hand, otherwise i'd never have tried it. Same with Dragon Age, i loved the second hand copy so much i went off and bought the Game again new with all the DLC attached.

If you want to flog new IP's then you need more people to try them, not less.

Regarding all the TV stuff.... i already have one thanks. Operating a remote control doesn't really stress me that much, Im also not really into American Sports.

Skype? my mobile phone already does that, unless everyone and their mother has Xbox One and i can skype my entire regular contacts list to the point it replaces landlines.... i don't see it working... not this generation at least, Not a desperately bad idea though... but i don't see it happening this generation because not everyone everywhere is connected to the internet 100% of the time. I only use Skype to talk to my GF because she is out of the country, everyone else i just phone the regular way.

Internet exploration... unless Xbox One comes with a keyboard, i won't really be using it for that. I like my forums.

Other posters have nailed it on the head i think by saying Gamers aren't the target audience here... Problem i see for Xbox One here is that non gamer people will still see Xbox as something for gamers only and bypass it.

I genuinely wanted microsoft to do well for the next gen... and i don't see it happening unless E3 is literally sex on legs with its games

We live in an era of unprecedented access to information. It's very strange that that also seems to translate to an era where many large organizations- and individuals, honestly- hear only a version of information that allows them to continue to believe what they want to believe and do what they choose to do, to excuse and justify decisions rather than refine or alter them.

You don't make a decision to dominate the market, decide what you're going to do, and then make the market like it until you control them. It just doesn't work that way. Microsoft appears to be working under assumptions and policies that might actually be worse than if they were making decisions with a dart board.

GamerMage:Or thunderous BOOs. 1:34 Weird that the PS4 is taking what the Xbox One is doing wrong,and confirming they won't do that.

This has been extremely satisfying to me. I spent the last generation baffled by Sony's inability to understand what it was doing wrong. It's as if Microsoft and Sony literally brokered a deal that they were each going to take turns being dumb to always keep us on our toes.

So it's just remarkable that thye went from what they appeared to be last generation and are now actively identifying genuine market concerns and addressing them as best they can.

And while it doesn't have Backwards compatability,I'm liking the PS4 already. It has an Indie game section in it's PSN,and Infamous: Second Son. 2:40 And I already HAVE a PS3 to use it's browser to watch The Escapist or Anime streams. 4:40 I swear they're just painting a bright red target on their console with this,practically asking us to hate it. Microsoft,I like you, and I respect you,but you done goofed. I'm heading over to Sony next door. 5:20 Here I thought Square Enix and EA were bad. Just ewhen you think they can't get any stupider,they pull this. 6:20 I concur. 6:35 As I am for Infamous:Second Son. XD 7:04 And my respect shifts more toward Sony once again. I mean,really,how did MS screw this up? All they had to do was say that 360 games were compatible,that it wasn't an "Always On" console,and that it would'nt have issues with used games. But then,I guess I shouldn't be TOO surprised. But still,I expected this out of Sony, but not out of Microsoft. It's a shame,really. Also,if I may pose a question to your wisdom,Jim,my PSP broke not that long ago. Should I replace it,or just get a Vita?

I found the ps3's exclusive lineup remarkably robust. The 360 had a much smaller collection and it's the exclusives that sell me on a console.

My hopes for the Xbox1 is that all this bad press its getting makes atlus decide definitively to keep persona a sony exclusive just so I dont see it on the xbox shelves (at least what little shelf space it will have if its going to go through with its preorder plans) and have the xbox fanboys tell me its a better game on their system or try to make it better than the PS3/4 (whenever they want to release it) even though its made its home and impact on sony systems.

and by the way sony, get a jump on it and put out P4 on the PSN already. I know, you had P3Fes on the PSN for 4.99 and I'll grant you that was a wonderful gift for a game that today is still probably worth at least twice that so i shouldnt be selfish, but it would be nice to have both.

The sad part is that most people aren't smart enough to realize their smart TV will do everything the console does. I've tried many times, but my brother and his friends are just more comfortable paying 60 dollars a year to do everything in a familiar xbox setting.

This is a problem I have with the new Xbox, trying to be everything in one, but not doing it in a way that makes it more appealing, it isn't faster or more efficient. The biggest kicker is paying a fee for used games, Gamestop claims it won't supply Xbones because of this and they are right, Gamestop has made much profit on used games and Microsoft is a big threat to that.

I have a 360, but my eyes are on the PS4 and possibly PC next generation, hopefully my Vita will get some use (aren't the PS4 and Vita supposed to go hand in hand?) My 3DS (right now, my favorite device) is getting plenty of use and I will be getting a Wii-U once some more games are out.

TizzytheTormentor:This is a problem I have with the new Xbox, trying to be everything in one, but not doing it in a way that makes it more appealing, it isn't faster or more efficient. The biggest kicker is paying a fee for used games, Gamestop claims it won't supply Xbones because of this and they are right, Gamestop has made much profit on used games and Microsoft is a big threat to that.

I have a 360, but my eyes are on the PS3 and possibly PC next generation, hopefully my Vita will get some use (aren't the PS4 and Vita supposed to go hand in hand?) My 3DS (right now, my favorite device) is getting plenty of use and I will be getting a Wii-U once some more games are out.

I was wondering would gamestop make that move.

Can't say im not sympathetic to gamestop on this. A whole retail outlet crops up to help you sell you games, and you treat them like the enemy.

You guys ought to see the articles non-game news sites are posting about this launch declaring the XBone the "savior of the consoles" (according to fox anyway). Plus you got all the comments coming in saying that the used game thing is not that big of a deal and that since their phone "constantly has internet why can't a console need to always be connected?".

You forgot the most important flaw of an all-in-one device: if it breaks, I lose several functions at once.

I have cable for TV, a PC for the internet, and can buy movies and other stuff (or Redbox them if I wish). Or I can buy an XBox One, and if it ever breaks, I lose ALL of those functions at once!

That's convenience for you!

Seriously, a gaming console that requires an internet connection, will charge me extra for used games, encouraged its developers to restrict their games with Always-On DRM, has no backwards compatibility....is a gaming console that I may as well ignore the existence of. It presents nothing that I honestly feel is worth my time. Oh, its cute little "snaps" and "swipes" are cool, but that novelty would fade away soon enough and I'd be left with a console that actively spies on me in my own home. That's all sorts of creepy. Pass.

Zombine3D:PS4 presentation made me nervous. The XBOX ONE presentation made me facepalm myself to ancient egypt. Good that I have all current gen consoles and a nice GTX680 in my custom built PC for Watch_Dogs.

For a new poster, I think you already won the thread!

Wii burned me, so, not particularly interested in it. They need a lot of great games before I pull a trigger. By that time, they may look very dated again. I can upgrade my PC.

PS3 does have me nervous. I still don't know about it. I don't even know what the console looks like.

But Xbone... what a mess! Convince me I want to game on it, or I'll go somewhere else!

A marketing expert, at this site, said regardless of who wins gen 7, there won't be a gen 8. He was wrong, but still worth listening to. Are any of these things going to make us want one or should we just keep our PS3s till 2017 and upgrade our PCs and maybe FIVE YEARS FROM NOW they can offer us something for Gen 9? Make us really believe we are going to love gaming on a new console? Cuz, that's what I do.

In the meantime, Ouya comes out 6/24. I can buy one of those for $100 to have something new to screw around with till 2018. Or Gamestick. Or Project Shield. Or root my android phone and play it on my TV.

I seriously doubt very many "smart" hardcore gamers care about the 360 anymore with the rise of the pc and ps3 exclusives. The only people who seem to be interested are the ones who use it simply as a call of duty or halo box, and if you are a hardcore gamer and still have the 360 as your console as choice may I simply ask "why?"

Jim, I agree with your fears completely. Now, I have been a console player all my life. I got a SNES for Christmas when I was about five, moved onto the Playstation, then the PS2 and when this generation of consoles came along I jumped ship to the 360. I do enjoy PC games (oh, how I miss Westwood and great Command & Conquer titles like Red Alert 1 and 2 or the old Windows 95 TIE Fighter). And I will readily admit that there isn't a console game that wasn't better executed on the PC.

But I put this to all the PC gamers out there that slag off by and large console players like myself - and I speak as someone who came from a household where we could never really afford a good PC. The beauty of consoles for me was always that they just. Fucking. Worked.

You would stick in the cartridge or the disk and then you just kicked back and did some gaming. Never did you have to worry about patching issues, installation problems, crashing to desk top, compatibilty issues, downloading, system requirements, hardrive space, hardware problems etc. You just plugged a Playstation in and let the magic happen. Nobody ever put a copy of Super Mario All Stars, Crash Bandicoot, Metal Gear Solid, whatever when they were growing up in the 90s / 00s into a console and worried for a moment that they might not actually work like they may have done with a PC of the time.

Now what are we moving forward to? A world where the console will be full of Sim City-like DRM ridden creations that are incapable of operating without constantly suckling from the tit of the internet and all the problems and headaches that online requirements demand.

For example, this past month I was playing Mass Effect 3 on the 360 - I bought and downloaded some DLC and now, for no obvious reason, my game now constantly searches for more DLC in the loading screen and my console game has essentially bugged out and crashed. I can rectify the problem, to be fair, by simply switching off xbox live for the duration. But what of a world where I simply, mechanically, can not use my expensive gaming console without jacking it into the Microsoft monolith? Where would I be? What sort of Microsoft or publisher related tech support hoops might I have to jump through in a world where my console just can not work without access to a perhaps already temperamental internet connection?

I so sadly see a day where consoles will indeed just be mini gaming PCs that offer only the problems, bugs and faults of PC games with scant few of the full blown PCs advantages in quality and definitely not the traditional console advantages of ruggedness, durability and (as they used to be anyway) cost effectiveness.

A terribly long post I know - but I feel very strongly that the days of the casual, happy, console gamer like myself might actually be numbered by bs like the xbox 1 looks like it will be, and that for me would be a terrible, terrible shame.

Bad joke of the day: Xbox one is catering to the rich and privileged? Like the 1%?

Okay Okay, I won't do that again.

OT: I wasn't interested in the new Xbox anyway. Xbox one is a title that just seems confusing if you bring the original xbox in the mix. Edited* Just checked quickly the presentation of Microsoft...So they decided to show sports games and call of duty. The latter decided to tell us that we'll get really attached to some dog. My bet will be that the dog dies.

However, I can't shake the feeling that being attached to a dog in a video game is something we have seen before...Really can't shake it...

Zombine3D:PS4 presentation made me nervous. The XBOX ONE presentation made me facepalm myself to ancient egypt. Good that I have all current gen consoles and a nice GTX680 in my custom built PC for Watch_Dogs.

For a new poster, I think you already won the thread!

[...]In the meantime, Ouya comes out 6/24. I can buy one of those for $100 to have something new to screw around with till 2018. Or Gamestick. Or Project Shield. Or root my android phone and play it on my TV.

Don't forget about the SteamBox, the real one. We know nearly nothing but what we heard - it looks tech savvy!>captcha: live your dream

It will sell to the people who want the latest gadget, enjoy COD (as they get early DLC), have a nice big living room and want something that can do everything but aren't that tech savvy.

As for gamers? Well we need to see the games first, but it's clearly not created with that customer base in mind, or else it wouldn't be focusing on all of the crap nobody asked for. Especially with the used games issue.