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How can people defend Cilan's witch hunt during the Skyla episodes when he himself didn't give a damn about his own Gym? Can anyone see the hypocrisy? Cilan left his Gym and practically said "screw the rules," but played the role of Gym regulator in Mistralton City.

Um, wat. There are two other gym leaders in Striaton City who are perfectly happy to battle their challengers in Dent's place... It's not like there's nobody there.

If you don't want to use Clay as an example of a bad Gym Leader, then there's always Volkner. Funny how everyone keeps ignoring the Sunyshore City Gym case; Volkner was just giving out badges, yet the fanbase was okay with it. Even the main characters didn't seem to mind; I think Ash might've been shocked, but everyone fails to remember that Brock (who worked in the Gym Leader business) didn't give a damn about what Volkner was doing. You didn't see him throw a temper tantrum, yet our friend Cilan went on a witch hunt the moment he realized what Skyla was doing (and she wasn't doing much harm to begin with).

I already addressed that.

Ash was pissed at the idea of getting a badge without battling, just like he is with Skyla.

As for Brock? Brock has never been entirely passionate about being a former gym leader.

The difference is Brock would stare onward in confusion and be like "What? This isn't really how gyms are supposed to work." But won't get bent out of shape.

Cilan on the other hand, has been proven to be a lot livelier and passionate about things (even Brock's crush gag was technically dull and mild). Since he still considers himself a gym leader, of course he's going to be upset when gym leaders don't give challengers a chance of to earn a badge.

Again what Clay did, is incomparable to Skyla.

How is delaying a gym battle for various reasons even anywhere near to the offense level as denying anyone a chance to earn a badge.

Ash was even pissed at Fantina because she wasn't at her gym every time he was at Hearthome.

Seriously stop singling out Cilan just because you people do not like him. It's getting ridiculous.

If Ash gets upset with a gym leader's antics, then it shouldn't matter one way or another if Cilan gets passionately involved because he's a gym leader as well.

Plus there's a difference between inconvenience-not-right-now-refusal (Clay) to straight out denial (Skyla). I mean after all the only reason why Cilan got to battle Skyla was because people wanted to see gym leaders battling each other. Likewise the only reason Ash was able to battle Skyla was because people wanted to see Skyla actually battling a challenger.

Originally Posted by Thing

Um, wat. There are two other gym leaders in Striaton City who are perfectly happy to battle their challengers in Dent's place... It's not like there's nobody there.

Exactly. Really I mean does it say that Striaton has to have 3 gym leaders in order to be a gym. Or is it simply because there are triplets and wanted all to be gym leaders. And the Pokemon league allowed it.

After all if Black2 White2 are any indication. A gym with more than one leader, isn't exactly desirable.

Um, wat. There are two other gym leaders in Striaton City who are perfectly happy to battle their challengers in Dent's place... It's not like there's nobody there.

You're missing the point. The rule of the Striaton City Gym is that there must be three Gym Leaders present so that challengers can choose which elemental monkey they're going to battle against. But with only two Gym Leaders, the rules are practically thrown out the window. Cilan knew this, but decided to leave anyway. It's obvious that he didn't care about his own Gym, so why is it that he gave Skyla a hard time? They were practically in the same boat, yet Cilan decided to display a holier-than-thou attitude.

You're playing the "Cilan is a good Gym Leader because he mentions his position a lot" card. Can't say I'm surprised. Someone made the exact same argument a few months back, but it was proven to be unsound. The thing of it is Cilan left the Striaton City Gym. That Gym requires three Gym Leaders to be present, yet there were only two left. How is Cilan a good Gym Leader when he left his brothers and the Gym in disarray? How can people defend Cilan's witch hunt during the Skyla episodes when he himself didn't give a damn about his own Gym? Can anyone see the hypocrisy? Cilan left his Gym and practically said "screw the rules," but played the role of Gym regulator in Mistralton City.

And by the way, Brock mentioned that he was a Gym Leader in the Roxanne episodes in AG. He might've mentioned it in DP as well.

Ugh. Kira I never said anything about being a 'good' gym leader. It's obvious i'm talking about the fact Cilan still treats himself as a Gym Leader constantly, something Brock barely ever did, just like the rare occasion you noted in AG. Again, now you're making up random statements once again. Nothing ever stated 3 Gym Leaders had to be present, ever. Not once. Nope, never. Got that? There's no hypocrisy in Cilan's actions towards Skyla considering there were two Gym Leaders left at Striaton when Cilan departed. Hell, Chili even said at the time in BW006 "you just leave the Gym to us" and no, not in a sarcastic way, they meant it as if they'll take care of things while Cilan improves his Conneisuer skills.

Also, she was doing a lot of harm. She stopped people from getting badges just because they're Pokemon had disadvantages against hers (Even if the disadvantages were crap a good bit of the time like in her Swoobat Vs. Stunfisk thing) which has been shown countless times to not actually count for much.

They simply could've gone to another gym. End of discussion really. It clearly isn't against "the rules" if no one has stopped her from doing it. Just like there seemingly isn't a rule against handing badges away to whoever a Gym Leader wants.

Fighting for real American turtles everywhere. Pro-Turtle since 6/30/13

The rules of a gym are made by the gym leader. Because there were 3 they had to let the challenger choose which one to battle.

But this was just "their" rule. But there's no reason why there couldn't be less gym leaders, it would simply mean less options for challengers.

If that's the case, then it only reinforces my point. If Gym Leaders can have their own rules, why was Skyla dragged through the mud for doing things her way? The real Gym regulators never stepped in to do anything about it, so clearly Skyla wasn't at fault. So again, why was Skyla treated so harshly when according to you and others, every Gym has its own set of rules?

If that's the case, then it only reinforces my point. If Gym Leaders can have their own rules, why was Skyla dragged through the mud for doing things her way? The real Gym regulators never stepped in to do anything about it, so clearly Skyla wasn't at fault. So again, why was Skyla treated so harshly when according to you and others, every Gym has its own set of rules?

Because again there's a huge difference between little gym quirks/rules than flat out straight denying anyone the chance to earn a badge.

If that's the case, then it only reinforces my point. If Gym Leaders can have their own rules, why was Skyla dragged through the mud for doing things her way? The real Gym regulators never stepped in to do anything about it, so clearly Skyla wasn't at fault. So again, why was Skyla treated so harshly when according to you and others, every Gym has its own set of rules?

Purely because she flat out refused to battle. That isn't a rule, that's just not doing your job.

Yes you could argue the PIA should have be notified, but there's a variety of reasons why they wouldn't show up, i'll list them if you really want, but i'll save my time for now unless it's really neccessery.

Because again there's a huge difference between little gym quirks/rules than flat out straight denying anyone the chance to earn a badge.

Again, nobody from the Pokemon Gym association or whoever is in charge of regulating Gyms in Unova told Skyla to stop doing what she was doing. It's clear that in the eyes of those in charge of monitoring Gyms, Skyla was just doing things her way and it was fine with them. And as I've said many times, Skyla's method of using logic to predict the winner of a battle was actually quite efficient. She used the exact same methods that most of us use when playing the games. I don't know why people are making a federal case out of this. Many of us have given the facts, yet some people are still willing to beat a dead horse (at this point, all that's left of the horse are a few bones).

Again, nobody from the Pokemon Gym association or whoever is in charge of regulating Gyms in Unova told Skyla to stop doing what she was doing. It's clear that in the eyes of those in charge of monitoring Gyms, Skyla was just doing things her way and it was fine with them. And as I've said many times, Skyla's method of using logic to predict the winner of a battle was actually quite efficient. She used the exact same methods that most of us use when playing the games. I don't know why people are making a federal case out of this. Many of us have given the facts, yet some people are still willing to beat a dead horse (at this point, all that's left of the horse are a few bones).

If im honest Kira all you seem to be doing is spamming the same argument you say we are beating a dead horse well I say your dog wont hunt!

1) You complain that nobody mentions Volkner.... several people have! (I think you should actually read threads instead of just searching for names as I actually spelt it wrong at first which is why it didnt show up)

On the subject of Volkner which was WAAAAAY back in DP... Ash actually complained more than he did with Skyla not to mention Flint from the Elite 4 and Paul.....

Volkner might have just been giving Badges away without battling but at least it wasn't for SELFISH reasons! He admited that he grew tired of battling and always winning so he put all his efforts into making Sunnyshore quite an advanced City..... Volkner built that City!!!!

What has Skyla done other than fly her plane for hours on end?

2) You play the sexism card A LOT!!

You complain people are bashing Skyla for being in your words a strong female character...

People are just as overly critical of male characters just look back at DP which you love bringing up when people complained about Pauls extreme catch and release program and the intense battle training he did

Its nothing to do with Skyla's Gender its to do with the fact she isnt doing the job she was assigned to do.... even her Grandfather the former Mistralton Gym Leader even said she was wrong!

I wonder if you would be so forgiving and on the defensive it was Cynthia the Champion of Sinnoh who was Air Battling..... even she who you claim to be holier than thou and stuck up gives younger weaker trainers a chance to prove themselves even Alder who I hate give younger weaker trainers the chance to battle him!

3) Skyla isnt using game logic (or any logic for that matter) shes just guessing...

By game logic Ash/Cylan should have been awarded a Badge without a battle! Skyla picks a type and if its weak to her says it looses even if its dual type is super effective against hers....

If Skyla is using game logic she has a problem iDENTifying dual types

In an Air Battle Cylan had a Grass, Bug/Rock and Electric/Ground.... Skyla saw Grass, Bug, Ground I saw Grass, Rock and Electric what did you see?
In an Air Battle Ash has Ground/Dark, Flying/Normal, Electric... Skyla saw Ground, Flying, Electric , I saw Dark, Flying and Electric what did you see?

She even contridicted herself by claiming Pikachu couldnt win because her Swanna a dual Water/Flying which is extremely weak to Electric knew a move to counter Electric attacks

who is to say her challengers Pokemon couldnt do the same?

Pokemon can learn moves from MANY MANY MANY varied types which could easily take down a Pokemon they were weak to! and the Anime itself has proven type matchups mean nothing!

but still she denys them the chance to prove themselves...

Take my Pokemon White Team in my Sig

If I used my Stunfisk, Heatmor and Emboar she would say I would loose...

I enjoyed the dub version. I didn't like Skyla's dub voice though, which was the same case for her Japanese voice. Unfezant's voice wasn't really that appealing to me either. Miles' dub voice sounded familiar to me, I was fine with his voice overall.

I really don't understand the sexist comments from earlier in the thread. Skyla's gender wasn't brought up at all during the episode and we've had characters of both genders similar to this in the past. The episode wasn't against women, it was just against Skyla. I am genuinely surprised no-one commented on her outfit, but I guess we've just gotten over it. If there's anything to complain about it's how they made Skyla out to be an absolute douche of a character. She doesn't give her challengers a chance to battle and makes assumptions based on type advantage alone on how the battle will turn out which time and time again in this series' long history is known to be a bad move.
This series has also shown that Skyla doesn't have much of an excuse compared to others. Back in DP, Volkner managed to design the Sunyshore tower which supported the infrastructure of the entire city. Other gym leaders who aren't there usually have some justification too, like Clay taking carer of his mining business. By comparison, Skyla was messing about in her plane doing barrel rolls. It really doesn't look good for her especially with her attitude towards the whole deal. The line 'It's just a badge' said during the battle sums it up quite nicely.

Of course she was doing what she loved out there, but if she preferred flying to being a gym leader, she could simply step down. Again, in the series' past we've seen this happen. Of course, she doesn't have siblings to take over the gym for her, but she must have someone who can take care of gym, maybe even her grandfather. Or she could just close down the gym altogether.

This episode feels as if it was intentionally written for Skyla to look bad. It seems the writers outright want us to antagonize her without making her do something actually evil, especially given all the ways they could written her character so her decisions would look more justified. Skyla's just not appealing, period. This sets up the following gym battle quite nicely so she can finally get her comeuppance in the next episode.

To conclude: After the end of the episode, if you felt Skyla was being a bit of a ***** throughout, then as far as I'm concerned you were supposed to feel that way.

As my actual opinion on the battle, Pansage went down too fast: at least get in an attack before going down to Gust of all moves. Crustle needs a friggin' loss already. That and ShellSmash+X-scissor is getting a bit old. Stunfisk certainly feels like a more versatile battler and really deserves a win. Thundershock barely working on Swanna felt a bit forced and just made me hate Skyla more. Also, iirc, can't Stunfisk fly? I'm disappointed that wasn't touched upon but they were running out of time by this point.
I'm sad that Cilan lost, but that should make Ash's eventual victory that much sweeter.

I really don't understand the sexist comments from earlier in the thread.

<snip>

This episode feels as if it was intentionally written for Skyla to look bad. It seems the writers outright want us to antagonize her without making her do something actually evil, especially given all the ways they could written her character so her decisions would look more justified. Skyla's just not appealing, period. This sets up the following gym battle quite nicely so she can finally get her comeuppance in the next episode.

Then you just answered your own question. The obsessiveness the writers showed toward making her look bad nearly reached fetish levels.

As for the complaints of sexism, all you have to do is realize that every person shown condemning Skyla (and thus delivering the aforementioned fetishised view of her the writers created) was male.

Release the past, escape the future...Most Recent: 20: The Weight of the World (Part 2)Next: Father

I'm literally this close to dropping the BW anime if they keep pulling bull like this. There's a difference between creating a dislikable character and creating an absolutely detestable jerk who's so absolutely obnoxious you can't even enjoy the episode. Skyla was the latter. What makes it worse is that she was a perfectly friendly, established character that the writers butchered into something that should've just stayed in the CotD spot it probably came from. I was a Skyla fan before this episode, and I still am, but now there's a bitter taste in my mouth because of this episode.

Step it up writers, stop ruining the characters that you're given to work with. It's getting old.

I really enjoyed seeing a Cilan battle again. Crustle ACTUALLY shows off. But...It seemed too rushed in at the end. Like, 2 or 3 attacks and then a pokemon would go down.. I know it wasnt the main point but, some more girth to Cilan/Skyla's pokemon would be nice, and I'm sure I'll see it this week against Ash (Woo Canada!)...Qwaa

Ugh, I hated Skyla. Hate her, hate her, hate her. I think she ranks right down there with Bugsy and Volkner as the gym leaders I've hated the most. It's not so much the fact that she has her own method of awarding badges, that's understandable given how busy she seems to be. It's her attitude toward the whole thing, the arrogance, that I couldn't stand. I'm glad Cilan (tried to) give her a buttwhupping. This was definitely one of Cilan's better episodes, and it's nice to see someone besides Ash, who's yelled at gym leaders before (like Brawly), argue with a gym leader.

3/10

New shinies week of/ 8/3-8/10: None, playing Moon
New shinies week of 8/10-8/17: None, playing Moon

Ugh, I hated Skyla. Hate her, hate her, hate her. I think she ranks right down there with Bugsy and Volkner as the gym leaders I've hated the most. It's not so much the fact that she has her own method of awarding badges, that's understandable given how busy she seems to be. It's her attitude toward the whole thing, the arrogance, that I couldn't stand. I'm glad Cilan (tried to) give her a buttwhupping. This was definitely one of Cilan's better episodes, and it's nice to see someone besides Ash, who's yelled at gym leaders before (like Brawly), argue with a gym leader.

3/10

Well I'm glad you think that Volkner is atleast not one of your worse gymleaders anymore because he was my favorite. Overall Best Wishes was bad from the start. Just because someone has an awesome design people will think they will have a good personality? Oh please!

same old "omg this person is mean id better beat them in a battel!!!11!" crap. Also Skyla isn't supposed to be an obnoxious character, the writers had no reason to make her so unlikable and irritating.