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"SleepScore, a company co-founded by CPAP manufacturer ResMed, just released a free phone app that measures your sleep through sound waves through the phone's speaker. The app aims to help people potentially diagnose sleep problems from a bedside table, with no wrist sensors, bed sensors or extra bedside devices required.

SleepScore's phone app works much like its bedside gadget, SleepScore Max, does: It sends out inaudible sound waves (basically, sonar) to measure bodily movement overnight. The app measures sleep duration, the time it takes you to fall asleep, light sleep, deep sleep, REM sleep and wake time -- much like many sleep tracking fitness bands including the Fitbit Versa. It's sensitive enough to measure respiration and recognize REM (rapid eye movement) periods, according to SleepScore Labs CEO Colin Lawlor."

(06-15-2018, 09:01 AM)macheta Wrote: There are specific instructions on positioning the phone which is important to make sure its picking up the sounds from the person intended. I plan on trying it out tonight.

for comparison, I have used the sleep as android app for years. it has a ton of features. detection can be by actigraphy (sp?) or sonar.

I haven't seen much detection difference when sleeping alone vs my wife being present except when recording noise, which the sound of the pap machine kind of screws up anyway. recorder picks up my wife's snoring and the dog's tags tinkling as he moves around on the floor next to bed. sensitivity of detection and recording can be adjusted to compensate some if necessary.

Somehow I have a hard time believing the claims of most app developers when it comes to sensorless monitoring biological functions at a distance. If even wired pulse oximeters have issues with accuracy, one wonders what the sensitivity and accuracy of a remote sensor might be. Just saying. Like the Better Business Bureau says, "investigate before you invest."

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius

I'm pretty sure the develpers of the sleep as android app and maybe other similar apps agree with you, srlevine1. they are not or should not be advertised as a substitute for polysomnography. so your caution is well advised.

the sleep as android app is more sophisticated and has more features than any other almost free sleep app and most paid apps I've come across. it's fun to monitor sleep. kind of like snorkling or scuba diving, we get a glimpse of an otherwise unseen world. it gives people without serious sleep issues some options to improve their sleep. perhaps more importantly it gives many people a tool to help them determine if they should talk to their doctor about serious sleep issues. as always, buyer beware, read all the fine print and your mileage may vary.

I have a Fitbit Blaze that I have used for over a year. It measure my sleep patterns at night based on pulse and movement. It is "kindof" accurate. I am actually asleep by 2130 every night. I also can remember dreams every night so I am pretty sure I am going through the sleep cycles. The Fitbit is all over the place on the daily sleep results. Sometimes it seems accurate but more times than not is mostly off base. The wrist heart rate is only "pretty" accurate when compared to a chest strap HRM.

I am also interested in the results you find with the smart phone app.

v/r
Jeff

PS. Even though the HRM of the Fitbit is only a close approximation of the actual heart rate, it is a good gauge of exercise levels.

Total sleep time and sleep efficiency were over-estimated and wake after sleep onset was under-estimated comparing metrics from polysomnography to either tracker using a normal mode setting. When wearing two Fitbits while sleeping, consistency between the devices was high.

Experts worry there may be a danger in consumers putting too much trust in these devices to accurately monitor sleep, especially users who have sleep disorders.

Awake vs. asleep

The gold standard used to scientifically evaluate a person's sleep is a thorough sleep lab test, called polysomnography.

Compared with this test, the accelerometer-based fitness trackers are "easy to trick," Montgomery-Downs said.

In a 2011 study, Montgomery-Downs and colleagues compared data from a tracker to that of a polysomnography test. They looked at adults who wore an older version of a tracker from Fitbit, while also undergoing an overnight sleep test, and found that the Fitbit overestimated the time participants were asleep by 67 minutes, on average.

"It says you are asleep more often than you accurately are," Montgomery-Downs said. The study also found that an actigraph, another device that also uses an accelerometer to monitor sleep and is sometimes used in sleep studies, overestimated sleep time by 43 minutes.

Another study, presented at a sleep researchers' meeting in November 2013, found the opposite effect in children — the Fitbit One underestimated how long the children were asleep, by 109 minutes.

While these two studies found opposite effects, they both show these devices provide "misleading information," said study researcher Dr. Lisa Meltzer, a sleep researcher at National Jewish Health hospital in Denver.

It appears that the central issue is determining whether or not you are awake and what sleep stage you might be experiencing. Without an EEG, this can only be an approximation.

"The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." -- Marcus Aurelius

that's good scoop srlevine1. but no one said the apps are a substitute for or even closely approximate polysomnography. in fact, the apps I've seen go to some pains to disclaim any medical use and describe in some detail the limitations of their methods. rather than the cynical view that we poor ignorant patients or consumers might be duped into self diagnosing, I think the greater probablility is that people might be more likely to seek medical attention after using a good sleep app.

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