Posted - 2008.05.23 11:01:00 -
[1]
Please make station hugging *much* more difficult. There have been some improvements, but far from enough. Today if you undock with a well tanked battleship (do not even talk about capital ships - they are nearly invincible in a situation like this, some stations have HUGE docking range, and at any sign of bumping they dock immediately), you can gank and then dock in a minute.

Posted - 2008.05.23 11:01:00 -
[2]
Please make station hugging *much* more difficult. There have been some improvements, but far from enough. Today if you undock with a well tanked battleship (do not even talk about capital ships - they are nearly invincible in a situation like this, some stations have HUGE docking range, and at any sign of bumping they dock immediately), you can gank and then dock in a minute.

not unless you give us the possibility to see what's outsideundocking should not be an instant i-lose button

maaaybe if your ship is invulnerable 30 seconds after your computer finished loading the grid, not 30 seconds after you hit the button.sometimes it takes 40 seconds just to load the nightmare station camp outside, by which time you're already popped, podded and looted.

tl;dr - station camping should not be an automatic i-win for pirates, undocking should not be an automatic i-lose for 'victims'-----------------------forum ate my post again

Posted - 2008.05.23 14:18:00 -
[6]Edited by: Harla Branno on 23/05/2008 14:18:56Okay, I did not make a clear viewpoint, as I see. Here is a situation: someone undocks at a station in a Moros, releases sentry drones. He can gank anything (that is not a capital ship) he likes, then wait for a minute then dock. Nearly zero chance to kill him using current rules.

Posted - 2008.05.23 15:13:00 -
[8]
I think there is an issue with station-hugging dock/undock games - certainly. But I can't support this proposal unless its re-worded for clarity and specific proposal.

For example:

"Currently there is a problem with the docking timer being abused by well-tanked battleships (and capitals) being able to engage in combat and then de-aggress and redock to avoid significant counter-attack. This problem was caused by general increase in ship hit points over several incremental patches designed to specifically to lengthen combat while there has been a failure to lengthen re-dock/jump aggression timers by a similar degree.

Outcome is that station dock range (stargate range) fighting is currently overpowered since in the environment of increased hit points for all ships it becomes too difficult to destroy targets in the limited aggression window. This encourages over-blobbing as the only way to inflict sufficient damage on the target before it docks and has the knock-on effect of discouraging any combat at all.

Question will CCP development agree this is a problem? And will they commit to increasing dock/redock/gate aggression timers to be in line with general ship hit point buffs since CASTOR? Roughly this would involve lengthening timers to 2-3x their current value.

Additional related question can we have a visual countdown of dock/redock/gate aggression timer on our User Interface please?"

***

Thats pretty much how I'd phrase an issue of this sort for CSM voting and hopefully eventual presentation from the agenda to CCP.

Originally by:Harla BrannoEdited by: Harla Branno on 23/05/2008 14:18:56Okay, I did not make a clear viewpoint, as I see. Here is a situation: someone undocks at a station in a Moros, releases sentry drones. He can gank anything (that is not a capital ship) he likes, then wait for a minute then dock. Nearly zero chance to kill him using current rules.

(edit: typo)

Any decent nanogang could just bump him off the station in that minute. What would be awsome was if there was a way to see what was outside without having to undock. Say maybe a "view port" or something along those lines that centered your camera on the station and allowed you to see outside the station. That or allow the overview to pop up when looking at the map inside the station.

Originally by:nlewisjammers are the meatshield [Bob] wish their pets were

Originally by:Jade ConstantineI think there is an issue with station-hugging dock/undock games - certainly. But I can't support this proposal unless its re-worded for clarity and specific proposal.

For example:

"Currently there is a problem with the docking timer being abused by well-tanked battleships (and capitals) being able to engage in combat and then de-aggress and redock to avoid significant counter-attack. This problem was caused by general increase in ship hit points over several incremental patches designed to specifically to lengthen combat while there has been a failure to lengthen re-dock/jump aggression timers by a similar degree.

Outcome is that station dock range (stargate range) fighting is currently overpowered since in the environment of increased hit points for all ships it becomes too difficult to destroy targets in the limited aggression window. This encourages over-blobbing as the only way to inflict sufficient damage on the target before it docks and has the knock-on effect of discouraging any combat at all.

Question will CCP development agree this is a problem? And will they commit to increasing dock/redock/gate aggression timers to be in line with general ship hit point buffs since CASTOR? Roughly this would involve lengthening timers to 2-3x their current value.

Additional related question can we have a visual countdown of dock/redock/gate aggression timer on our User Interface please?"

***

Thats pretty much how I'd phrase an issue of this sort for CSM voting and hopefully eventual presentation from the agenda to CCP.

lulz... ya know Jade there is a reason why you won the vote. The ability to write clear and unambiguous English.

Posted - 2008.06.01 14:58:00 -
[14]
lol--------------------------------------------------------------Seriously, we need some kind of separation between the post and signature.There you go. Now that wasn't so hard

I have to agree with you. If I want to fight someone and they are on the station I have to realize that they are there so that they can see outside, choose their targets wisely, and dock if nessisary. I would be an idiot not to weigh this into the strategy. Why insist that people can't fight on stations? Should they just stay docked and nobody get to play? Why are people demanding that the rules must change so that they can kill more people for making the mistake of undocking or demanding someone stay vulnerable for as long as it takes get revenge? Now people that undock, dock, undock, dock into a camp without agroing anyone just to waste people's time and ammo makes me want a redock timer that increases everytime you do that within a set period of time but that is not what the OP specified.

I have gotten a nice amount of kills on the station with my moros and haven't lost it yet but it wasn't because they were stupid and thought I wouldn't dock. They were bumping me while giving me targets to keep me agro'd trying to get me off of the station so they could kill off my drones and subsequently kill me. They've come close several times but I've been lucky so far. It makes sence though as my moros costs more than a 30 man gang. I can't survive that gang if I'm off the station but if I can down a few of them while taking a risk that I may be knocked off the station it makes for an exciting fight. I can fully understand why that gang would be fuming that I got a coupple of them and they didn't get my one ship but: A) I was unmistakeably on the station and have a kazillian hitpoints. B) I chose the battleground, they chose the attack plan and know the game mechanics. C) They could have won but they failed to achieve the mission objectives (bump or seige button to strand myself for 10 min, Keep me aggro'd without taking casualties) D) If I have a chance to loose a 3B isk ship (gotta fit it good for maximum performance) within docking range then I dang-well better have a chance to kill a few hundred mill of their ships for the risk I'm taking, that one of them is successfull at bumping or that they'll use the cyno-bump which has flung me at over 1km/s more than once. D) It's the station. They know I'm going to try to de-agro and dock if they let me. The only reason they're fighting me is to keep me agro'd while they work me away from docking range so they can kill me. And they will kill me if they succeed but nobody makes them do it and they're not doing it because they've been cheated or something. E) The moros is specifically designed for fighting smaller ships. It says so in its info thingy. F) I don't even shoot battleships because they can deagro and tank a moros until they can dock (I loose a drone about every 5 seconds and that cuts down on firepower as well as costing a lot) A moros can't gank a BS unless it enters seige mode and that guarantees death if fighting alone.

All in all, the station adds a dimension to fighting that can't be found anywhere else in the game. I'm often online when nobody else in my corp is. To be able to use the station tactically allows me to have sphincter-tightening combat mahem bloodbath heartattacks when I'm alone vs 10-30man fleets in the area and still have a chance of getting some kills or loosing really big. Against that many I'm tethered to the station because they would always win otherwise. I have to depend on them choosing to fight me on the station because there is nothing else I can do in that situation. The station doesn't need to be changed because this is another clear example of people not thinking about the endless variations the game can be played in and wanting the game changed to better suit their limited understanding of it.

Posted - 2008.06.02 11:27:00 -
[16]
rofl ethiat just posted lol... and you wrote an essay in reply to him.

I think all the points against this idea have been posted already :)

Afraid to say it but nerfing pirates in this case isn't a good thing. Which is sad.------------------------"There was this bright flash of light - and now this egg shaped thing is on my screen - did I level up?"

Posted - 2008.06.11 11:43:00 -
[19]
Recently I have been on vacation from alliance warefare and seeking solo pvp. For my holiday hotspt I choose Curse and more specifically the systems RA- and HLW.

Now I use frigates of various kinds to roam around in and get fights but you cant kill much in a frigate solo so you need to start using bigger and more powerful ships. The problem is though that you will almost certainly get ganked. There is no way that anything above cruiser size can move around 0.0 safely - eventualyl you will get ganked and sooner rather than later in most cases.

So what did I do? I brought and fitted a heavy tanked BS and spent some time "station hugging" I'd engage what I could kill and de-aggress and dock whenever I was getting blobbed normally managing to take out some small supprto ships before the hostile heavy hitters forced me to dock.

Solo PvP is a dieing art in Eve, everywhere you go there are uncountable blobs and the only way to fight with any chanche of staying alive is the nanoship but still you options are limited.

I am strongly against anything that will once more limt the optiosn for solo PvP in 0.0.

Posted - 2008.06.20 10:26:00 -
[21]
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The CSM and CCP / Devs are now discussing this issue and anannouncement regarding the outcomewill be made in the near future.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Originally by:Inanna Zuni++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++The CSM and CCP / Devs are now discussing this issue and anannouncement regarding the outcomewill be made in the near future.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Posted - 2008.06.26 16:49:00 -
[24]Had a good discussion on this one. We made the point that its literally impossible to kill capital ships and well tanked battleships within the current 45 sec docking aggression window and this needs to be changed. We discussed the variable dock timer (after pvp aggression) for different hull classes (ie the bigger the hull the bigger the timer) and also a general increase in the timer to reflect the incremental hit point buffs received by all ships over the last few years of patches)

CCP recognized that by firing on another player you are committing yourself to pvp and there shouldn't be an easy "get out of the jail free" card from dock/undock games.

We also raised the Issue of remote repping being abusable in station dock range (stargate jump range) warfare and addressed the possibility of having reps vs a ship in aggression timer counting as aggression for the repper. (ie if you rep a ship that cannot dock due to the docking aggression timer the repairing ship will also get the docking aggression timer).

Additionally we raised as a UI Issue - could we get a docking/jump aggression timer visisible as a countdown - similar screen area to the global aggression timer.

Originally by:Harla BrannoEdited by: Harla Branno on 23/05/2008 14:18:56Okay, I did not make a clear viewpoint, as I see. Here is a situation: someone undocks at a station in a Moros, releases sentry drones. He can gank anything (that is not a capital ship) he likes, then wait for a minute then dock. Nearly zero chance to kill him using current rules.

(edit: typo)

A carrier undocks from a station, deploys a damn armada of drones/fighters, ganks freely while the attackers futilely try to get to him through the docking ring, recalls his armada & docks while laughing.

YES, station hugging is bugged all to hell.

The invulnerability timer needs to be based on the grid load. The higher the grid load the longer a ship is untouchable (and thus remains within docking range). Once the ship takes any action other than 'dock' it's fair game for 60 seconds... unless it initiates aggression and then it's stuck for, let's say:

0.25 seconds multiplied by the signature radius of the ship? Thus a frigate can dock pretty quickly, while a BS has nearly 100 seconds to sit there and tank... and then there's the sig radius of a capital ship, change their multiple to 0.5 seconds*sig.This is, OFC, after the target ship initiates aggression. If they don't aggro they can sit there and dock at their liesure regardless of their size (even if you bump them 200km, they still have the 'dock' option).

Originally by:Jade ConstantineHad a good discussion on this one. We made the point that its literally impossible to kill capital ships and well tanked battleships within the current 45 sec docking aggression window and this needs to be changed. We discussed the variable dock timer (after pvp aggression) for different hull classes (ie the bigger the hull the bigger the timer) and also a general increase in the timer to reflect the incremental hit point buffs received by all ships over the last few years of patches)

CCP recognized that by firing on another player you are committing yourself to pvp and there shouldn't be an easy "get out of the jail free" card from dock/undock games.

We also raised the Issue of remote repping being abusable in station dock range (stargate jump range) warfare and addressed the possibility of having reps vs a ship in aggression timer counting as aggression for the repper. (ie if you rep a ship that cannot dock due to the docking aggression timer the repairing ship will also get the docking aggression timer).

Additionally we raised as a UI Issue - could we get a docking/jump aggression timer visisible as a countdown - similar screen area to the global aggression timer.

This got registered a High Priority Issue for fixing and balance.

Good work Jade/CSM (Dear god did I just say that?)

The Moros pilot a few posts above is exactly why this needs to be changed, engaging huge gangs with zero risk to yourself.

When I was in low sec I HAD to blob in order to fight station huggers. Or else I 1v1 or 1v2 and the enemies just dock up. So I had to bring 5+ BS with me to kill the station hugger. Not to mention the remote-repping and other tactics, fighting on a station is the most boring, unfun and unexciting PvP I have ever been in. I'd rather suicide on noob ships.--

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