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Topic Review (Newest First)

06-17-2019 01:26 PM

Kpjoslee

Quote:
Originally Posted by skupples

doesn't intel have multiple moth balled fabs as it is?

Their new fabs and expansions has to do with 7nm so it does look like they will try to move to 7nm asap. 10nm is lost cause.

06-17-2019 10:49 AM

skupples

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee

They are probably trying to save some expenses for this fiscal year to migrate some of the cost associated with launching 10nm. Since the construction is not expected to complete until 2024, I doubt it means anything beyond that.
Nice clickbait title though.

doesn't intel have multiple moth balled fabs as it is?

06-17-2019 10:12 AM

tyvar

Quote:
Originally Posted by white owl

I'm not sure if they can. One reason they were having issues going to 10nm but TSMC didn't was because TSMC kept using a gold substrate or path-trace layer (some sort of layer) while Intel was moving to cobalt which is much harder to make a good electrical connection or bond to. Why? Intel obviously sees enough pros to outweigh the cons...one con being the hold up of months of new CPU sales all around the board and giving up the leader position for a while.

Sure Intel stuck with 14nm, why on earth would you attempt full production on 10nm and a new arch when you can still sell millions of chips to the masses without doing that? They actually had to retrofit 10nm production back to 14nm because they were making less than demand and you're always better off getting paid for something that's paid for vs something that's not. AMD will likely have Intel for a year or so while Intel is perfecting the process but once they do I imagine we'll see a 20-50% bump in performance over Coffee Lake and Intel will be back on it's 5-10% yearly tick tock scale unless AMD is always stepping over the top.

Intel couldn't attempt full production on 10nm, every reliable bit of information we have were yields were trash, with even tiny sub 60mm pieces of silicon having at least 1 defect (its why they only shipped 2 core CPUs with no GPU functionality and very low clocks at first), and clocking abysmally.

There was no demand for their 10nm stuff because it wasn't able to make parts anybody actually wanted at 10nm.

And the Tick in the old days used to be a die shrink, we are getting 1 more full node shrink left, and maybe a half node on that) spaced out in two and if we are lucky three half node shrinks. ( Intel 7nm/TSMC 5nm, Intel 5nm/TSMC 3nm and if we are very lucky a Intel 3nm/TSMC "1nm") after that silicon has hit the wall.

06-17-2019 09:50 AM

ACleverName

Quote:
Originally Posted by magnek

Ewwww WCCF....

Pass.

^ what this guy said right here.

06-17-2019 04:57 AM

Raghar

Quote:
Originally Posted by dantoddd

I wonder why the clock speeds are so low?

Limits of technology. 32 nm planar could do 5 GHz, 22 nm FET peaked at 4.5 GHz. 14++ nm peaks at 5 GHz (But note these few +.)
In addition, smaller nodes have more heat per area, because energy consumption doesn't fall down as fast as area shrink.

Basically they are fine for mobile, but desktop expect more performance per money. I remember how Intel thought: "Everyone would go to cellphones and tablets, and technology limitations for non-enterprise users would be fine. Enterprise users have enough money to stomach costs of special nodes."

06-17-2019 03:08 AM

Defoler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwgeek

Heads Up- just posted on the News here in Israel:
Intel has informed its suppliers that it is postponing the construction of its new fabrication facility in southern Israeli town Kiryat Gat to an unknown date, according to an anonymous tip sent to Calcalist. After reaching out to the company's local suppliers, two subcontractors confirmed to Calcalist on condition of anonymity that work on the planned expansion, initially intended to begin in 2019, is being pushed off to an undisclosed date.https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/a...764367,00.html

So whats going on? Intel CEO Bob Swan is currently visiting here, Maybe they have change of plans? going 7nm or other plan?

They wanted to expand the factory's size, but they were not allowed the full size they requested, as they also wanted to create another fabrication line for research with future plans, so they are postponing the reconstruction and they are planning to play chicken with the town's council, or who will blink first, to try and force them into allowing them to fully expand what they wanted.
The request for bigger expansion was done about last year, and they were initially told it will be fine, so they already put things into plan, but then the city wanted to reduce the size, so they are now delaying things since they might also have to change their construction plans.

Besides that, that factory is not their only one for 10nm they are reconstructing. It would be a supporting factory to make 10nm chips, and partially to support the research facility in haifa. But they also want to research there new 7nm and 5nm for future production and new chip technology, which currently the haifa teams need to sometimes import from other fabs around the world, which cost them a lot of time and money.

06-17-2019 03:03 AM

Defoler

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kpjoslee

ARM is far bigger threat than anything Intel has faced in last 20 years.
Well, innovation was still there, just wasn't accessible and affordable for consumers lol. I don't think Intel intentionally put 10nm on backburner for 5 years. Sunny Cove would have been 2018 product if they didn't have 10nm troubles.

Intel have been working on 10nm for 5-6 years. They are already working on 5nm trying to catch up with IBM and samsung.

06-16-2019 11:57 PM

Kpjoslee

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hwgeek

Heads Up- just posted on the News here in Israel:
Intel has informed its suppliers that it is postponing the construction of its new fabrication facility in southern Israeli town Kiryat Gat to an unknown date, according to an anonymous tip sent to Calcalist. After reaching out to the company's local suppliers, two subcontractors confirmed to Calcalist on condition of anonymity that work on the planned expansion, initially intended to begin in 2019, is being pushed off to an undisclosed date.https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/a...764367,00.html

So whats going on? Intel CEO Bob Swan is currently visiting here, Maybe they have change of plans? going 7nm or other plan?

Quote:

While Intel has not provided a new date yet, it has stated the project is being delayed by six to 12 months, one of the subcontractors said. At this point, the expansion plans themselves seem to be unchanged. Construction was originally expected to end by 2024.

They are probably trying to save some expenses for this fiscal year to migrate some of the cost associated with launching 10nm. Since the construction is not expected to complete until 2024, I doubt it means anything beyond that.
Nice clickbait title though.

06-16-2019 11:22 PM

Hwgeek

Heads Up- just posted on the News here in Israel:
Intel has informed its suppliers that it is postponing the construction of its new fabrication facility in southern Israeli town Kiryat Gat to an unknown date, according to an anonymous tip sent to Calcalist. After reaching out to the company's local suppliers, two subcontractors confirmed to Calcalist on condition of anonymity that work on the planned expansion, initially intended to begin in 2019, is being pushed off to an undisclosed date.https://www.calcalistech.com/ctech/a...764367,00.html

So whats going on? Intel CEO Bob Swan is currently visiting here, Maybe they have change of plans? going 7nm or other plan?

06-16-2019 06:19 PM

white owl

Quote:
Originally Posted by tpi2007

They have been talking a lot about decoupling the process from the architecture, so who knows maybe if 10nm++ or 7nm isn't doable in time, maybe they can put Ice Lake on 14nm++ for desktop parts to buy some time. The TDP will be higher most probably, though.

I'm not sure if they can. One reason they were having issues going to 10nm but TSMC didn't was because TSMC kept using a gold substrate or path-trace layer (some sort of layer) while Intel was moving to cobalt which is much harder to make a good electrical connection or bond to. Why? Intel obviously sees enough pros to outweigh the cons...one con being the hold up of months of new CPU sales all around the board and giving up the leader position for a while.

Sure Intel stuck with 14nm, why on earth would you attempt full production on 10nm and a new arch when you can still sell millions of chips to the masses without doing that? They actually had to retrofit 10nm production back to 14nm because they were making less than demand and you're always better off getting paid for something that's paid for vs something that's not. AMD will likely have Intel for a year or so while Intel is perfecting the process but once they do I imagine we'll see a 20-50% bump in performance over Coffee Lake and Intel will be back on it's 5-10% yearly tick tock scale unless AMD is always stepping over the top.

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