Your Questions Answered

Darren Danga wrote in to ask this question about two of F1’s top talents, Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso:

I would like to know who had more points when they raced, pole positions and their records if you had to compare the two?

I think they are of the best drivers in Formula One at the moment. Not taking anything from Sebastian Vettel, he has a good, reliable, fast car.

My main wish in life is to have these three guys race in a similar car, and look at the result!

It’s always exciting to see top talents go up against each other in the same car. We had it in 2007 with Hamilton and Alonso, but unfortunately it didn’t last very long.

Hamilton and Alonso as team mates

Alonso had moved to McLaren from Renault, with whom he had won the last two world championships. Hamilton arrived at McLaren as a rookie, having won the GP2 championship and Formula Three Euroseries in the preceding two years.

Even Hamilton’s boss and mentor Ron Dennis didn’t expect him to be immediately on Alonso’s pace, telling him “don?óÔé¼Ôäót be surprised if you’re half a second slower than Fernando”.

Nor did Alonso expect Hamilton to be much of a threat. “He told me at the beginning that it was my decision to sign a rookie like Hamilton, but that it could cost me the constructors?óÔé¼Ôäó championship,” said Dennis in 2010.

To the surprise of Dennis, Alonso and probably everyone else car Hamilton the rookie ended the season in front of his team mate in the championship. But it couldn’t have been much closer: they tied on points with Hamilton ranked ahead as he had five second-place finishes to Alonso’s four.

Hamilton and Alonso waged war within the McLaren garage. At times both claimed the team weren’t doing enough to support their individual causes.

In Monaco Alonso had the benefit of a lighter fuel load in qualifying but Hamilton was not given the opportunity to use the full benefit of his heavier fuel load to pass his team mate during the pit stops. “It says number two on my car and I?óÔé¼Ôäóm the number two driver,” grumbled Hamilton afterwards.

Two races later the team arrived at Indianapolis with Hamilton leading the championship. During the race Alonso trailled his team mate and drove up to the pit wall as he exhorted his team to order Hamilton to make way. They didn’t, and Hamilton scored his second win of the year.

Matters came to a head in Hungary when Hamilton refused to let Alonso run ahead of him during qualifying. Alonso hit back by blocking Hamilton in his pit box later in the session. The stewards ruled Alonso had impeded Hamilton and moved him back on the grid. Hamilton won the race.

This had repercussions beyond their internal rivalry as it provoked Alonso to reveal details of McLaren’s use of confidential information belonging to Ferrari. That ultimately saw the team excluded from the constructors’ championship and fined $100m.

From that moment on it seemed impossible Alonso could have a future with the team. He remained in contention for the drivers’ championship but a crash in Fuji – where Hamilton won – virtually ended his hopes. But Hamilton also saw the title slip through his grasp after a strategic error in China and a gearbox glitch in Brazil.

Hamilton and Alonso in 2007: Statistics

*Drivers qualified with their race fuel loads in 2007 which could affect qualifying performance. Alonso qualified in front of Hamilton in Hungary but was penalised and moved behind.

Notes on reliability

French Grand Prix: Alonso’s gearbox failed during qualifying leaving him tenth on the grid

European Grand Prix: Hamilton had wheel failure during qualifying, causing a heavy crash and leaving him tenth on the grid

Turkish Grand Prix: Hamilton had right-front tyre failure, dropping him from third to fifth

Brazilian Grand Prix: Hamilton had a gear selection problem on lap eight which dropped him from sixth to eighteenth. He finished seventh

Laps per position

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/charts/2012drivercolours.csv

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

Fernando Alonso

203

224

272

110

51

53

64

29

24

2

1

3

2

1

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

0

Lewis Hamilton

321

311

184

56

24

10

15

25

12

16

8

7

8

15

1

8

12

3

1

0

0

0

Hamilton and Alonso since 2007

Hamilton remained at McLaren while Alonso returned to Renault and then switched to Ferrari. This obviously deprives us of the ability to compare their performance in the same cars.

During this time Hamilton has won the world championship once and Alonso has been runner-up twice. Both have had cars that were capable of winning the world championship, and both have had uncompetitive cars at times. That was particularly true for Alonso in 2009.

Hamilton’s one-lap speed is a key strength of his along with his racecraft and overtaking. However he has been prone to incidents, notably in 2011, and has headed down the wrong path when setting up his car.

Alonso is a master of consistency, both in terms of avoiding mistakes and in repeating millimetre-perfect laps again and again. But he doesn’t respond well to pressure from the other side of the garage and is not on a par with Hamilton and Vettel in terms of one-lap pace.

Few would doubt Hamilton and Alonso are two of the best drivers in the world at the moment. Choosing between the two of them is extremely difficult, though I have put Alonso ahead of Hamilton in my Driver Rankings for the last two seasons.

The best way to tell would be if they were to share a team again. But the chances of that happening are slim.

2008

*Hamilton won ‘on the road’ in Belgium but was stripped of his win after the stewards decided he has passed Kimi Raikkonen illegally. Alonso won in Singapore but it later emerged that his victory was facilitated by his team mate being ordered to crash to bring out the safety car to the benefit of Alonso’s strategy.

109 comments on How do Hamilton and Alonso compare after six years?

I mirror Keith in thinking that we will likely never again see Alonso and Hamilton in a team but I think there is a slim chance of seeing Vettel and Alonso/Hamilton in a team. Personally I would love to see Vettel & Hamilton paired: in qualifying the battles would be epic (as Hamilton & Vettel are credited with being the fastest in qualifying)!

As for Alonso, in terms of racecraft he is sublime, in qualifying he is good (but not the best) and I don’t believe he would make a very good teammate to a fast driver but as of now in terms of overall ability I would say he is the best driver in the world but that could change very quickly as Vettel seems to just be going from strength to strength. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if Vettel is a 4-time champion by this time next year…

@jcost – for sure, only if they didn’t turn out like the late relationship between Prost & Senna though! I don’t think Red Bull have that problem as such, just really that since they have employed Vettel he has had the better of Webber on most occasions (bar Silverstone and Monaco usually) so perhaps they would be able to handle two highly competitive drivers but yes I see it more likely if they were to be paired it would be at McLaren or perhaps even Mercedes.

I dont think Redbull are comfortable in having Hamilton partner vettel. Remeber the rumours surrounding Lewis joining redbull when he visted the redbull garage in 2011 during one of the grandprix(cant remember which one)… Christian Horner clearly stated that he would nt have see these two working together in redbull..

And I beleive it’s unfair on Alonso to say he will not be happy with having a a fast team mate… The only time he had issues with his team/teammate was in 2007…I strongly believe it was more to do with Mclaren and Ron Dennis than Lewis…

@infy – there is definitely doubt over it: I agree with you that at this current moment in time Alonso is “the most complete driver” but Sebastian in particular is challenging that status and of course is still young, still learning and improving. To state that Alonso is undisputedly the best is incorrect though, as the fact we are having this discussion raises doubt which you claim doesn’t exist.

I dont see what Vettel has to do with this Hamilton vs Alonso comparison.

Over the last few years Hamilton has dropped down in my rankings due to his inconsistency. 2012 was probably his best year yet in that regard (mechanical failures aside). He will need to do it again next year before I believe he is better than Alonso.

The same applies with Hamilton @infy, and I believe that he has maintained his form except for in 2011 where his car appeared to be attracted to Massa’s! I don’t believe he is better than Alonso but I think there is definetly doubt over it, which goes against what you said.

Its very clear that Hamilton has more natural speed than Alonso, and probably than any other driver in the field. However its also clear to me that Alonso’s superior intelligence and cunning allows him to deliver better results from his speed, even if it may not match the peak of Hamilton’s.

For me, Alonso is the driver I would have every day of the week, however Lewis still has incredible potential which I feel was never managed or tapped into that well at Hamilton. For all of Mercedes shortcomings in recent years, the genius of Ross Brawn and his ability to form genuine relationships with drivers may be the best thing that has ever happened to Lewis.

There seems to be a general consensus that Hamilton is a more inconsistent driver who makes more mistakes, but I feel that a lot of people’s views are heavily influenced by Hamilton’s season in 2011. Yes, that souldn’t be forgotten, but I think it’s fair to say that 2011 was an anomoly for Hamilton, that 2012 suggests won’t happen again.

So if we do ignore 2011, Keith has rated Hamilton higher in the final season rankings 4/5 years, with Alonso only coming out on top this season. However, I think this season was a lot closer between them than many think. As far as I can remember, Hamilton didn’t make a single driving error in 2012. This compares to at least 2 from Alonso (AUS quali:spin and China race:ran wide on marbles while making a pass, losing a few places). Hamilton was outpaced by his team-mate in a fair fight (disregarding any mechanical failures or team errors) twice, in AUS and BEL, with Alonso also being outpaced by his less esteemed teammate twice (USA and BRA). In both cases, one of these occasions was due to an error in set up, so there’s not really any argument to suggest Hamilton goes the wrong way on set-up more than Alonso, as Keith suggested in the article.

So when you look at it on it’s wn as a season, with no influence from 2011, who was the more consistent driver of the 2? I can see a very strong argument to suggest that Hamilton was not only the quicker, but also the more consistent.

So if we do ignore 2011, Keith has rated Hamilton higher in the final season rankings 4/5 years, with Alonso only coming out on top this season.

but that completely ignores that while Hamilton had a great car in 2008 and a dud turned winner toward the end of the season in 2009, Alonso had the mediocre R28 and the dud never turned good in 2009.
When you look at Alonso compared to his own teammates it puts his qualities in a different light (he has had 3 times as much points at Renault and about double at Ferrari, when Hamilton had about double or about equal). Off course its hard to compare, as their teammates were also of different quality (Heikki is surely better than either Piquet Jr. or Grosjean was at the time, and its clear Button was better than Massa in the past 3 years) and having a better car also makes both drivers getting more points. But still, it shows that the results are not that clear cut.

Personally I think that in the last 3 seasons Alonso has been the best driver overall. Hamilton was good in 2010, got ruffled from Button beating him at times and his personal struggles in 2011 and was back up to a great level in the last season. It shows he is maturing, and maybe in 3 years we will look back and say that from 2012-2015 Hamilton was on top of these two.
But Vettel is at about the same level and getting better each year too, so it will be close at the top!
And I am curious to see how Button gets on, Rosberg copes with Hamilton, Perez develops at McLaren, Hulk possibly goes to Ferrari to shine, Williams get even more competitive with their line up and Kimi and RoGro at the Enstone team being in the mix as well, so that promises a nice couple of seasons ahead!

I can’t really decide, myself, which is better. The only thing I can really say is that I find Hamilton more exciting to watch on a weekend, but Alonso’s performance last season was phenomenal. Then again, Alonso has much more experience, and I think Hamilton is nowhere near his best, yet.

Looking at their stats, they are very close (if you exclude the Renault years). I agree that is virtually impossible we will see them in the same team again, but I would love to see it.

Darn Hamilton has had his fair share of mediocrity …. one more year at Merc then someone scoops in the championship in Feb’ with a reg change in 2014…. when is Hamilton going to have a chance at a title again?

Yeah it’s difficult to compare them, but these are the facts. 21 wins for Hamilton (+1 in my view Spa ’08) against 15 wins for Alonso (one of them given by Piquet Jr.’s crash in Singapore ’08 and onother from Massa at Hockenheim ’10). Hamilton is best for raw speed and natural talent but I think that Alonso is better at giving 100% at every race plus his political and mind games ability.
My opinion thank you!

It seems you forget that the Renault Alonso drove in 2008 and 2009 couldn’t be compared as a match to the McLaren (2008 champion ) in those years… and about the “stolen” race in Spa, it’s the same rulee for which Vettel got penalized in the Nurburgring when he passed Buton using the outside part of the track. About the Crashgate I totally agree with you. The punishmeent shold have been a total disqualification for Renault for a year… and for Alonso? He says he didn’t know about Briatore’s decision, innocent till proven the opposite right?

Well I didn’t forget that Alonso left his team to go back to Renault. It was his choice as it is Hamilton’s choice to go to Mercedes this year so we will see what’s going to happen wright? They are grown ups making their own decisions. As far as comparing Spa ’08 with Hockenheim ’12 I think that Hamilton got back his position to Kimi and in the second case Vettel didn’t bother to think about it at all. Hamilton was squeezed (but it’s racing wright) he cut the chicane and got his position back, as you can see from the link, he was behind Kimi at one point. Vettel simply went from the outside of the corner (he wasn’t squeezed at all) and went forward. As for Crashgate, which was dangerous, I think it’s even worst than Spygate which was also awful :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isDbpSvcDHwhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5K9P9z_Lwa0

Well I didnâ€™t forget that Alonso left his team to go back to Renault. It was his choice as it is Hamiltonâ€™s choice to go to Mercedes this year

No, I don’t think it was @nidzovski. He reacted very badly to Hamilton’s unexpected competitiveness and made aware to the FIA confidential data which had McLaren disqualified from the constructors’ championship, so I think it is fair to say he was “kicked out” of McLaren.

Agreed though that “Crashgate” was a truly terrible event and that Renault (although perhaps not Alonso as we have to take his word for it that he didn’t know, not sure whether as to believe that though) should have been severely punished for it. It is completely unacceptable to endanger other drivers and indeed your own for the sake of some championship points and in that respect it was worse than Spygate.

Its obvious to believe alonso knew nothing at the time about crash gate. any one with any F1 strategy knowledge understands that.

The strategy was simple. You are at the back on a track that you cant overtake, so you cant run your true speed. You therefore pit early, get some time in clean air, by the time you catch the back of the field they will be pitting and then giving u time to gap them(as you are on lower fuel so going even faster). Red Bull did it in the same race, as did Rubens. nico was on a similar strategy that day too and had to pit under SC.

Also alonso isnt stupid, he may of risked all of this for a title but not a race win. Flavio and Pat needed to win a race due to pressure from Renault. Alonso did not need a victory at all costs at that stage of his career. It really is as simple as that.

it’ s a little obvious that since Alonso moved to Ferrari he has been better than Hamilton (forgetting any car fails of course). Of course that the Ferrari approach has handled some bunch of points to Alonso in some races when Massa (surprisingly) got stronger than Ferr, such as that Hockenheim 2010 or the gearbox change. But I wonder if ALonso would deliver in the same way with a better teammate. Button can be less than Hamilton, but in some races we have seen them battling on the track and that’s greatfor the sport. Not so great for Hamilton of course!!!

So hard to choose between these two, but for me I think Alonso is in front – because of his experience, race craft and consistency. I can’t personally see anyone else managing what Alonso did in that 2008 Renault. Or this years Ferrari. Would love to see them as team mates again but sadly I doubt it will ever happen.

Alonso has more wins than Hamilton. And if you compare the wdc standings at the end of each season Alonso tied with him in 2007 with the Macca team against the entire team, in 2010 Alonso finished ahead of Hamilton in the wdc standings, in 2011 he once again finished ahead of Hamilton in the wdc standings, In 2012 Alonso finished ahead of Hamilton in the standing. And you want to know what the common denominator is? That Alonso also had a slower car than hamilton in all of those seasons. So there is not brainer when Hamilton has had a better car than Alonso and yet he finished behind him. Also Hamilton had the fastest or second fastest car in all of those seasons.

They are without a doubt the two best drivers in the world, period. I don’t judge who is the better of the two because at the end of each race day who win, gets the most points for that day is all that matters to these highly competitive souls.
We are just fortunate to be able to see them race. They are what F1 should be about.

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I don’t know if the word luck is very appropriate, I would chose opportunism instead. As Nicolo Machiavelli said:

And in examining their actions and lives one cannot see that they owed anything to fortune beyond opportunity, which brought them the material to mould into the form which seemed best to them. Without that opportunity their powers of mind (driving skills in our case) would have been extinguished, and without those powers the opportunity would have come in vain.

Spot on, It seems to me that Alonso is very good at spotting the opportunities and making best use of them (also judging right on which to take and where its wiser not to do so) in the last couple of years.

It’s interesting to look at the podiums versus race wins for both. Alonso regularly has the upper hand in podiums, while Hamilton has more wins.

While there are lots of reasons for this (mechanical reliability for example) I think it reflects Alonso and Hamilton quite well: Lewis has blistering speed and an aggressive driving style, while Alonso is arguably slower, but more tactical and circumspect and above all, consistent.

@journeyer Maybe Lewis saying ‘Alonso is my Prost’ had it right! But in seriousness, I cannot compare either drivers to Prost or Senna, as I never had the opportunity to follow their careers, as I started with F1 in the late-90’s. It seems (from what I see and read) like Lewis and Fernando broadly share similar character traits and styles as Senna and Prost did. That can only be a good thing!

I think the only way I could decide between these two is to say that for a chaotic season like 2012 I would pick the consistency and cunning of Alonso but on a straight up battle in equal machinary I’d pick Hamilton.

Statistics can certainly be misleading (if they were to be blindly beleived we would consider Vettel a superior driver to Senna).
Personally I used to dislike Alonso, but he seems to have matured greatly over the last few years. I think I’d mostly echo what people have said here already – Alonso seems more consistent, Hamilton has those true sparks of genius, but seems blighted by terrible luck (2012) and borderline manic driving (2011).

Hmm…I like both really, I suppose Alonso is someone you admire with your head, Hamilton with the heart – a la Prost and Senna.

Well points-wise, Alonso’s 983 is slightly more than Ham’s 913. Some people on this site argued that Jenson beat Lewis and Massa outperformed Kimi based on total points scored sooo that can only mean: Alonso did better than Lewis…