thanks for your interesting comments and the post! with regard to israel, netanayu does seem to be in thick water at present.. regarding the protests that i mentioned happening in israel at present - they are ongoing it seems and are calling for him to be removed from power..

with the loose 45 degree aspect between neptune-uranus sitting so close to his midheaven axis, one wonders how things pan out for him.. his solar return doesn't look very favourable either.. saturn is closest to the angles in the sr 2017 chart.. his solar arc directions don't look promising either.. sa saturn is presently 45 his natal mercury - ruler of his midheaven.. sa pluto within a degree of his natal sun - he could definitely be out of a job here as i see it.. and the transits support the problems in the solar return chart - neptune continues to be close to opposite his midheaven by transit while uranus hovers around 135 to it.. the solar return chart has uranus opposite his sun - quite destabilizing and it is a sun profection year.. all in all, as a betting person - i say odds favour him losing his position.. i don't know how it works in israeli politics though...

israel has had one of it's jets shot down as a consequence of being in syrias airspace... as always there are 2 sides to these stories, but this is the first time this has happened since 1982 - israel jet shot down... i realize netanyahu is now being charged with crimes and that this could be a good diversionary tactic, but the continued ramp up towards war is discouraging..

the cross aspects to to israels chart don't look great... the solar arc directions look worse... i think things are not so rosy in israel at the present time.. i don't know that their is anything uncle sugar or papa putin can do at this time to help them out either..

As you correctly pointed out, Isreal's national chart is frought with tension, right now, whether you use the birth time of 4:00 pm. EET, (as suggested by Alexander Marr, Isaac Starkman, and Noel Tyl), or the later time of 4:37 pm, featuring 1 degree Scorpion rising.

From what I heard, an Iranian drone was recently sent to spy on Isreal, in Isreali airspace. Isreal shot down the drone, in retaliation, and Isreali jets flew to Syria and destroyed the base where the drone was allegedly launched.

Further to this, SA Saturn makes an applying inconjunction to natal Sun in Taurus.

Those are game changing aspects, aspects of the political chickens coming home to roost, whatever that means ! LOL Hopefully, it is kosher chicken !

It could also well denote the ending of seven years of fat cows and prosperity and now, Isrealis will experience the seven years of famine, leanness and belt tightening, as prophesized in the old testament ?

Under this major Saturn transit, we could well see a new political government form and the ouster of Netenyahu. regardless, the real change is coming in three to four years, when Pluto, by SA, conjoins the ascendant.

SA Mars in Scorpion squaring natal Moon in Leo at 4 degrees is worrysome and is an aspect that could lead to war, as Mars rules the 7th house of open enemies.

Meanwhile, the recent Lunar eclipse of January 31st at 11 degrees Leo and Aquarius conjoins the Isreali Pluto at 12 Leo, closely, and is also troublesome. It also squares the north and south nodes in the Isreali chart, signifying conflict, severe legal and court matters, and possibly war, as well.

However, as the Isreali solar arc Ascendant is currently at 29 degrees of Sagitarius, that part of the zodiac signifies "flogging a dead horse" and therefore, whatever war(s) Isreal initiates at the time will likely be short lived, I predict.

The reason is that 27 to 29 degrees of a sign signifies a time of transition with no permanency to anything ?

That said, SP Moon will oppose natal Mars in Leo in just a few months, so a second, more serious conflict of a military nature cannot be ruled out !

Finally, Solar Arc Moon languishes in the Isreali 12th house, = natal Neptune. What does that mean? It means this: that you Isrealis are wandering in the proverbial "spiritual desert" just like many of us Christians and there is a "lostness" or a loss of direction being felt. The 12th house rules the nation's spy agencies, in this case, the Mossad and there is confusion going on, but join the club. The CIA and FBI is also experiencing a 's' kicking, but so are many other agencies. Meanwhile, China is winning, (and you are losing) isn't it true !

Police also have recommended that the prime minister be arrested for corruption. Amy

That is correct. nbcnews.com is reporting that charges are being recommended against you know who. However, the same article goes on to say that "it will take up to one year" before charges are formally laid against Netanyahu. The article goes on to say that police have lined up 80 witnesses who have agreed to testify against the Prime Minister in court.

Of course, Netayahu is vehemently denying the corruption charges and says "they will come to nothing." But, like Trump, if he obstructs justice and or interferes with witnesses or fires the prosecutor, then he runs the real risk of being charged with obstruction of justice and or could well be impeached for obstruction !

as for the solar arcs and general direction of things in the middle east and with regard to israel in particular - i think things are going to get more difficult for israel.. yes - sa saturn on the ascendant, if you go with the 4pm time and a host of other astrological factors point to a more challenging dynamic for israel... how much of this has to do with netanyahu, i am not sure.. conjecture on why the jet that was shoot down and the basis for a lot of military type action is typically clouded in secrecy and covert stuff that we can never really fully know about.. well - that is how i see it... one side can claim whatever they want to claim and the other side - you might never hear of the other side in the western press, lol, but even if you do - it might just lead you down a wild goose chase! unfortunately nothing is ever that simple..

maybe that sun/moon in libra in netanyahus chart square onto jupiter in cap is coming in for an overhaul once saturn gets into the later part of cap - next year... i don't know how long his term is.. he is accused of taking gifts - something probably every politician on the planet does - but usually after they leave office, not before! oh well.. i will wait til saturn moves into later cap to see how the chips fall for netanyahu...

as for israel - i think things become more challenging for them, in spite of their good buddy jared kushner and trumps daughter wanting to help build the yellow brick road into tel aviv, or whatever...

Please re-read the nbc news link that I provided. Nenenyahu is NOT accused of merely accepting gifts, but rather, a public official accepting a BRIBE, which is a criminal offence. Like "hundreds and thousands of shekels in bribes," no small amount.

The Isreali police say they have 80 witnesses to this effect, that is an extraordinary amount of firepower and legal ammunition for the cops, even though the trial has not happened, yet.

However, what you are saying is that Netenyahu will not be convicted of anything, so, in other words, his fate is similar to that of Donald Trump ?

I predicted on the other thread, long ago, that Trump, in spite of criminal and or ethical wrongdoing, Trump will complete his term as President, just like Nentenhayu will ?

That doesn't give me a warm hearted feeling, James. It will make people even more cynical of politicians, in general, as two wealthy men manipulate the system at every opportunity.

As for Nenenyahu, what a sc*mbag. He's right down there with the crustaceans, sea micro-organisms, and the primordial slime !

Him and his psychologist wife, both !

Meanwhile, Isreal needs to stop bulldozing Palestinian residences and harassing the Arab elderly and young kids. They are not all terrorists, they are human beings.

i don't follow marjorie orr anymore.. i find her articles take on her personal views and that detracts from what she has to say... fwiw, she banned me for challenging her on this topic as well.. i see her as a weak kneed kind of person who doesn't like anyone challenging her.. it is her website, but i find her more narrow minded then i previously thought.. oh well!

hi sab,

i didn't say he would get off, just that he might.. we could stick to the astrology and that might be better....

lots of criminals get off, and some people who are innocent go to jail.. the world is not a rational place!

it is mostly empty conjecture on my part... the judge overseeing his trial is a crony... we'll see how it goes!

You've been right on Isreal, many times, previously, so maybe your "conjecture" might well be meaningful.

You know, the ultimate fate of Netenyahu will be decided by, not you or me, but by the people of Isreal, as it rightfully should ?

Regarding your discussion with Amy on Marjorie Orr, I can sympathize and completely agree with you, about her.

Ms. Orr comes off as a very ill tempered, mean, vindictive person. While on the astrodatabank.com website, a few years ago,(now defunct) she once launched a very nasty personal attack on the late astrologer Sydney Omarr, calling him a "b*stard" and a "womanizer" among other things, just days after his death.

I have a very unfavorable opinion of people who attack or defame the dead on a public forum, while the person is six feet under and cannot defend themselves.

On some occasions, I have seen Ms Orr use dirty data, using a very questionable birth time, yet still erecting the chart of her favorite celebrity and making predictions based on that speculative birth time. That raises real red flags, as far as I'm concerned. It's lazy astrology ! Meanwhile, she likes following celebrities using Sun sign astrology, good for her, but she is hardly celebrated, herself.

James and Sab I have come to the conclusions that astrologers are frequently WRONG no matter who they are! Yes, I am on the boards discussing but the reality is that no one can predict anything. I had a reading years ago with BasilFearington-nice guy but he really did not say anything meaningful. I had a reading with Noel Tyl in early 2009, his big prediction about me was totally wrong. The only astrological reading I had that was someone interesting was with david Hawthorne, a vedic astrology, still astrology is a nice thing to talk about but predicting things is, well, questionable. AMY

As far as Israel and the prime minister goes, he is in some trouble and in for some big changes in his life with uranus opposing his sun, and solar arc pluto aspecting his sun. He may not go to jail but he could he forced out of the leadership position by his party THanks AMY

the way i see it, it is hard to make predictions... this is especially true with mundane astrology, using birth times for a country that are a good starting point some of the time... even here, i am using the 4pm 23 libra rising for israel... i have 2 other charts - 415 and 437pm times.. all of them are close, but when you go to use solar arc directions to the angles - you are in no mans land... and as i have come to know - it is the angles that are most important when running the different predictive techniques that get used in astrology...

why, there were even 2 different birth times for trump and a few more for hillary.. it is hard to make predictions without a definitive birth time..

this chart uses 10am and rates it a C at adb... i have a chart for 930am... not sure what the basis for the 930am time is either..

how is an astrologer going to make a confident prediction when they don't have an accurate chart??

as for the topic of vedic astrology - lets talk about it on another thread.. i am almost finished reading a book called 'the greatness of saturn'.. it is quite good - vedic, or indian astrology focused on a myth on saturn that others interested in saturn would benefit from reading... i am open to learning more.. i will say that vedic is much more focused on making predictions.. it reminds me a bit like horary which is much more focused on making predictions generally.. none of these practitioners of vedic of horary are focused on the charts of countries from what i have seen.. i think it is out of bounds for horary and possible for vedic, but i may not have had enough exposure to vedic to see that indeed it has a branch focused on mundane astrology as well... please start a new thread if you want to talk about it more, as i don't want to derail this focus here on israel. thanks..

source notes off the adb page linked above...

look at this muddled mess!

Source Notes

Starkman rectification from 10.30 am. Tel Aviv is for sure the birth place.

Formerly, Selma Schejpel quotes Micha Velner, a Tel Aviv astrologer for 9.30 am , Jerusalem "personal information" 5/96. Same date given by the Israeli Consulate, Los Angeles, CA. Jane Statlander gave same date, 10:45 AM, Tel Aviv, in MH 10/96. In the same issue, Isaac Starkman gave same date, also for Tel Aviv, "rectified from 10:30 AM local time."

(Noel Tyl quotes Tel Aviv astrologer Dalia Stupp who declared in a goup of some 60 people that she had gotten the data from Netanyahu himself and read his chart for him, October 19, 1949, 11:45 AM EEDT.)

it is claimed by russia that last night 2 israeli jets fired 8 missiles on the airport in homs... 5 of the 8 missiles made it to there target and a number of syrian army persons died.. interestingly it is the homs air base which is responsible for containing isis in eastern syria..

i am not sure the time of the attack, but i am going to wait until i get a time to post a chart for the event.. meanwhile it would seem the timing is close to moon at 23 capricorn which would be exactly trine israel sun and exactly square the 4pm israel 23 libra rising chart..

this year is a leo profection year for israel starting at the solar return in may... in the solar return chart the sun is in the 8th house with libra rising.. sun is in an opposition to jupiter, while the early degrees of libra and cancer are rising in the ascendant and midheaven... saturn aspects both angles from the 4th house...

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