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Smash Ace

IMO, I don't think Shadow is going to be part of DLC (if that is even a possibility) but I like to think and hope that perhaps one day, he COULD join Richter and Ken's examples and be a character (echo or otherwise).

Smash Lord

IMO, I don't think Shadow is going to be part of DLC (if that is even a possibility) but I like to think and hope that perhaps one day, he COULD join Richter and Ken's examples and be a character (echo or otherwise).

Richter and Ken were definitely a great start. A part of me is just silently hoping SEGA saw how well they were received and how people are upset over Shadow and want Sakurai to Echo him in sometime in the future, but that's entirely a dream scenario.

I kind of wish Sakurai went more into detail about how and why certain 3rd parties got second characters (besides the obvious reasons).

Smash Ace

I mentioned this in the Tails thread. Though I'm currently pessimistic of Sonic getting a character all in DLC this game right now.

But assuming the next game drops the roster number down like Sakurai assumes it might. Any 3rd party franchises that they can keep may get more characters to at least try to make up somewhat for not everybody being back once again. I believe it will be totally possible that Sonic, Tails, Knuckles could all become playable characters in their own right eventually and assuming Echoes come back Shadow (As for those concerned about the two spin dashes and a spring, maybe this game also revamps Sonic's moveset that will be able to share it better with Shadow in some way) can as well. I do think that while yes it's so far only echoes. Richter and Ken still leaves it open to 3rd party franchises getting more then one character. We just don't know if Sakurai will be in charge of the next one. Ultimate feels like his swan song/magnum opus before he at least switches to a more advisory role while he gives the reins to someone else.

At the very least, I just can't see 3rd parties leaving Smash altogether. And Sonic always seems to be among the safest to return. So as long as 3rd parties remain in Smash. There's that chance for us all.

Sakurai has clearly stated that this is indeed his last Smash game that he is directing overall (so it is his swansong), he also mentioned that if a new Smash were to be made, not all of the current 3rd party franchises will be brought back, my guesses as to whom might get dropped include:

Snake: Was only added in Brawl mainly to please a close friend of Sakurai's in Hideo Kojima (who is no longer working with Konami) and was likewise only added to Ultimate on the sole condition that Simon Belmont (and his successor Richter) could join (if Snake didn't return, Simon wasn't happening at all), I can see Simon and Richter staying if Konami wants to keep a slice of the Smash cake (and to be fair, Simon and Richter are really all they need anyways), but Snake (who was axed before in 4) is very likely to be dropped again coming next Smash, Simon and Richter have a bigger history with Nintendo, Snake does not (only appearing on 2 NES games, 3 if you count his crossover appearance on that one Gamecube game before his Brawl debut, and 4 is you count the Snake Eater remake on the 3DS).

I can see Mega Man, Ryu and Ken staying put for sure (with Akuma possibly joining as another Echo fighter for Ryu, and possibly Chun Li and Guile), seeing as they have the largest amount of history with Nintendo out of the third party characters combined, so Capcom is definitely staying on board for future Smash Bros games, the same goes for Namco and Pac-Man so long as they stay on as developers going into the next Smash.

Sonic is rather at an iffy spot at the moment (especially when it comes to a 2nd rep, whether it being Shadow, Tails, Eggman or Knuckles), while he's definitely one of the most popular 3rd party characters (he was by far the most requested character for Brawl by a landslide), he's the only third party character that has a perfect attendance (having not been dropped once since he was added in Brawl), Sega themselves are one of the hardest video game companies to strike a contract for regarding Sonic and his series in general (which explains why Sonic has 2 ATs but no 2nd character), Bayonetta on the other hand not so much (seeing as her series have been on Nintendo for all 3 games now (with the first game recently been ported over), I wouldn't be super shocked if Sonic got cut altogether by next Smash, especially if Sega decides to only let Bayonetta be their sole rep (and we all know that Bayo will be getting a 2nd character coming via the 3rd Bayonetta game as DLC, seeing as the game comes out in 2019, which is during the DLC development phase), to make a long post short, Sega is very iffy regarding Sonic, but are more easy-going with Bayonetta.

Depending on what happens with Square Enix's future with Nintendo after the Switch's timespan runs out, Cloud will probably be the first third party character to get cut, seeing as he has the least amount of history with Nintendo and in Smash, FF's universe is the least repped series out of them, with only 1 stage. no assist trophies (where's Tifa or Sephiroth?) and only 2 music tracks to it's name.

Can't really elaborate much on Microsoft, since we don't know if they are one of the companies that is getting DLC or not.

Smash Master

Sonic is rather at an iffy spot at the moment (especially when it comes to a 2nd rep, whether it being Shadow, Tails, Eggman or Knuckles), while he's definitely one of the most popular 3rd party characters (he was by far the most requested character for Brawl by a landslide), he's the only third party character that has a perfect attendance (having not been dropped once since he was added in Brawl), Sega themselves are one of the hardest video game companies to strike a contract for regarding Sonic and his series in general (which explains why Sonic has 2 ATs but no 2nd character), Bayonetta on the other hand not so much (seeing as her series have been on Nintendo for all 3 games now (with the first game recently been ported over), I wouldn't be super shocked if Sonic got cut altogether by next Smash, especially if Sega decides to only let Bayonetta be their sole rep (and we all know that Bayo will be getting a 2nd character coming via the 3rd Bayonetta game as DLC, seeing as the game comes out in 2019, which is during the DLC development phase), to make a long post short, Sega is very iffy regarding Sonic, but are more easy-going with Bayonetta.

They're not going to cut Sonic but keep Bayonetta. Sega and Nintendo had Mario crossover in an Olympics Sports series that also required acquiring the rights of not just both sides but also the Olympics itself to do together 4 times and soon will be 5 (Though they did skip the recent Korean Olympics. We know they already have the license for 2020) for peace sake. Just because Sonic didn't get a 2nd character this time around doesn't mean that much about Sonic's future in Smash.

Smash Lord

Sakurai has clearly stated that this is indeed his last Smash game that he is directing overall (so it is his swansong), he also mentioned that if a new Smash were to be made, not all of the current 3rd party franchises will be brought back, my guesses as to whom might get dropped include:

Snake: Was only added in Brawl mainly to please a close friend of Sakurai's in Hideo Kojima (who is no longer working with Konami) and was likewise only added to Ultimate on the sole condition that Simon Belmont (and his successor Richter) could join (if Snake didn't return, Simon wasn't happening at all), I can see Simon and Richter staying if Konami wants to keep a slice of the Smash cake (and to be fair, Simon and Richter are really all they need anyways), but Snake (who was axed before in 4) is very likely to be dropped again coming next Smash, Simon and Richter have a bigger history with Nintendo, Snake does not (only appearing on 2 NES games, 3 if you count his crossover appearance on that one Gamecube game before his Brawl debut, and 4 is you count the Snake Eater remake on the 3DS).

I can see Mega Man, Ryu and Ken staying put for sure (with Akuma possibly joining as another Echo fighter for Ryu, and possibly Chun Li and Guile), seeing as they have the largest amount of history with Nintendo out of the third party characters combined, so Capcom is definitely staying on board for future Smash Bros games, the same goes for Namco and Pac-Man so long as they stay on as developers going into the next Smash.

Sonic is rather at an iffy spot at the moment (especially when it comes to a 2nd rep, whether it being Shadow, Tails, Eggman or Knuckles), while he's definitely one of the most popular 3rd party characters (he was by far the most requested character for Brawl by a landslide), he's the only third party character that has a perfect attendance (having not been dropped once since he was added in Brawl), Sega themselves are one of the hardest video game companies to strike a contract for regarding Sonic and his series in general (which explains why Sonic has 2 ATs but no 2nd character), Bayonetta on the other hand not so much (seeing as her series have been on Nintendo for all 3 games now (with the first game recently been ported over), I wouldn't be super shocked if Sonic got cut altogether by next Smash, especially if Sega decides to only let Bayonetta be their sole rep (and we all know that Bayo will be getting a 2nd character coming via the 3rd Bayonetta game as DLC, seeing as the game comes out in 2019, which is during the DLC development phase), to make a long post short, Sega is very iffy regarding Sonic, but are more easy-going with Bayonetta.

Depending on what happens with Square Enix's future with Nintendo after the Switch's timespan runs out, Cloud will probably be the first third party character to get cut, seeing as he has the least amount of history with Nintendo and in Smash, FF's universe is the least repped series out of them, with only 1 stage. no assist trophies (where's Tifa or Sephiroth?) and only 2 music tracks to it's name.

Can't really elaborate much on Microsoft, since we don't know if they are one of the companies that is getting DLC or not.

Not to sound rude but you're a little delusional if you seriously think Sonic would be cut in favour of Bayonetta. Even beyond all the sports games he's had with Mario, it's Sonic the ****ing Hedgehog.

Even when the situation seems bad, people always find hope in that kind of way. Love it. Reminds me when people began modding characters like Ridley in the game. And then good will hit us. Amazing. Hopefully Shadow gets lucky like this at one point~

Smash Cadet

This thread is going in circles now, here's my thoughts before I jump off

Do I think Shadow has a shot as DLC? Maybe? It all depends on what Sakurai wants and if Sega is willing to let it happen. I still firmly believe that Shadow was intended to be playable but something fell through and he was given an assist as consolation. There's nothing denying that Spirits and/or Assist Trophies are out of the running, unless you consider that in the sense of base roster. Chrom is a playable fighter, a Mii Costume, appears in Robin's Final Smash, victory poses, AND has two spirits. Knuckles appears in Green Hill Zone despite being an Assist Trophy. I dont think Sakurai cares about stuff like this as much as the fans do. If Shadow does become a fighter, I'd expect it in a later wave if possible. Maybe the 2nd wave, maybe the 3rd, who knows.

At this point, I think people should stop hurting themselves over this. There's no point in giving up and acting like he'll never get in. We got a potted plant.

Smash Journeyman

Even when the situation seems bad, people always find hope in that kind of way. Love it. Reminds me when people began modding characters like Ridley in the game. And then good will hit us. Amazing. Hopefully Shadow gets lucky like this at one point~

Smash Ace

Not to sound rude but you're a little delusional if you seriously think Sonic would be cut in favour of Bayonetta. Even beyond all the sports games he's had with Mario, it's Sonic the ****ing Hedgehog.

I'm not delusional, Sega has been treating Sonic very badly regarding what they want in for their Smash Bros content and as a series as whole (no 2nd character, but has 2 stages, 2 ATs (one of which should have been playable from the get-go), look at Bayonetta's series compared to Sonic's, they've been treating her far better as if she was the new mascot right now (she doesn't have nearly as many games compared to Sonic, but they've been doing her the right way (which is what they should have done with Sonic once the 3D era began), it clearly shows that Sega does not care at all for their fans.

If Sonic was as iconic as Mario he would have had just as many good games as him, rather than his series being so up and down lately.

And to be honest, I hope the Tokyo 2020 games is the last one with Nintendo and Sega as partners.

Smash Lord

I'm not delusional, Sega has been treating Sonic very badly regarding what they want in for their Smash Bros content and as a series as whole (no 2nd character, but has 2 stages, 2 ATs (one of which should have been playable from the get-go), look at Bayonetta's series compared to Sonic's, they've been treating her far better as if she was the new mascot right now (she doesn't have nearly as many games compared to Sonic, but they've been doing her the right way (which is what they should have done with Sonic once the 3D era began), it clearly shows that Sega does not care at all for their fans.

If Sonic was as iconic as Mario he would have had just as many good games as him, rather than his series being so up and down lately.

And to be honest, I hope the Tokyo 2020 games is the last one with Nintendo and Sega as partners.

Sonic having 2 stages and 2 ATs is excellent. He's the only third party series in Smash Ultimate with two stages to his name, a feat not even Pac-Man was able to accomplish. Having two ATs, while disappointing that one wasn't playable, still shows that SEGA was willing to negotiate use of their characters in a greater manner. The series also has an impressive amount of Spirits, going so far as to get characters like Gamma and even the Werehog.

The increased Bayonetta representation is simply a result of her being included in the base game this time rather than the absolute last DLC character. She still has less music, stages, and ATs than Sonic. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

If SEGA didn't care for their fans then please explain to me why Sonic Mania happened.

Smash Apprentice

Sonic having 2 stages and 2 ATs is excellent. He's the only third party series in Smash Ultimate with two stages to his name, a feat not even Pac-Man was able to accomplish. Having two ATs, while disappointing that one wasn't playable, still shows that SEGA was willing to negotiate use of their characters in a greater manner. The series also has an impressive amount of Spirits, going so far as to get characters like Gamma and even the Werehog.

The increased Bayonetta representation is simply a result of her being included in the base game this time rather than the absolute last DLC character. She still has less music, stages, and ATs than Sonic. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

If SEGA didn't care for their fans then please explain to me why Sonic Mania happened.

Promoting Lost World on what? The Wii U version that most have put their Wii U's collecting dust? The Steam versions that's not on a Nintendo system? I think they just returned it because Sega said yes to it as a returning stage from Smash 4.

Though I personally kind of like the stage, especially for 8-Player battles. It's just large enough for some good space for all 8 players. But not too small either. Though I get how it could be a bit too spacious for 1-on-1's. But that's what FD and Battlefield forms are for.

Smash Lord

I posted what my NoA connection said in the Geno thread, since that's where I'm at most of the time. Posted a screenshot of his message in particular, but I'll post it here for good measure. GS fans NEED to follow through with his advice if they want Isaac in the future:

From what I gather, Nintendo was very surprised at the negative reactions to Isaac returning as an Assist and Mii costume, but aren't going to consider promoting him for Wave One.

For our black hedgehog, while nothing is known at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar reaction (Nintendo thinking his Assist would get people excited only to witness mass disappointment). The fact that no promotions are happening in the near future means we'll have to live with that for now, but I just want to remind everyone to remain supportive of Shadow. If a Season Two happens there is a better chance that he may be granted justice finally.

Just something I wanted to share so this thread doesn't die out completely.

Smash Journeyman

From what I gather, Nintendo was very surprised at the negative reactions to Isaac returning as an Assist and Mii costume, but aren't going to consider promoting him for Wave One.

For our black hedgehog, while nothing is known at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar reaction (Nintendo thinking his Assist would get people excited only to witness mass disappointment). The fact that no promotions are happening in the near future means we'll have to live with that for now, but I just want to remind everyone to remain supportive of Shadow. If a Season Two happens there is a better chance that he may be granted justice finally.

Just something I wanted to share so this thread doesn't die out completely.

That’s saddening to hear about Isaac though it sounds like Sakurai didn’t see him as relevant enough. I’m pretty sure he will get his promotion one day. As for Shadow I’m still going to support him regardless. I hope others don’t give up and remain vocal and hopefully Nintendo sees that we want the ultimate lifeform to join smash.

Smash Ace

Interesting bit of info. So Isaac was doomed from the very start. That is rough despite not being a huge fan of the character. Pity. Well, at least that goes to show that having a game (games, particulaly newer ones) helps more than people think.

Well, at least that encourages support for characters and hopefully a change happens in the future. Hence for characters like Isaac, Geno, Shadow or anyone else.

Smash Journeyman

From what I gather, Nintendo was very surprised at the negative reactions to Isaac returning as an Assist and Mii costume, but aren't going to consider promoting him for Wave One.

For our black hedgehog, while nothing is known at this point, I wouldn't be surprised if he had a similar reaction (Nintendo thinking his Assist would get people excited only to witness mass disappointment). The fact that no promotions are happening in the near future means we'll have to live with that for now, but I just want to remind everyone to remain supportive of Shadow. If a Season Two happens there is a better chance that he may be granted justice finally.

Just something I wanted to share so this thread doesn't die out completely.

Judging from that I'm guessing the same was likely applied to Shadow (and other AT's). So, in other words, Shadow never even had a chance. He was likely decided as an AT in the beginning of the game's development. Any teasing about Shadow may have been unintentional, but if that's the case Sakurai really is an oblivious guy. I guess we can hope for a potential wave 2. Even if Shadow doesn't make it in, I do hope Issac fans eventually get their day. I thought for sure he'd make it in considering his popularity and support during the ballot. I feel for them more than I do for us. Anyways, here's hoping our characters see their day in the future.

Smash Journeyman

Hearing about Isaac story sorta makes me wonder did Sakurai really look at the ballot? I know there no real results out there but I’m curious to know what the real results are. Plus idk how good did Shadow do but I have a feeling he may have done decent in the ballot. Tbh characters like dark samus and chrom don’t seem like highly requested characters on the ballot unless I’m wrong and they were. I just never heard people requesting for them as much compare to other characters.

Smash Lord

Hearing about Isaac story sorta makes me wonder did Sakurai really look at the ballot? I know there no real results out there but I’m curious to know what the real results are. Plus idk how good did Shadow do but I have a feeling he may have done decent in the ballot. Tbh characters like dark samus and chrom don’t seem like highly requested characters on the ballot unless I’m wrong and they were. I just never heard people requesting for them as much compare to other characters.

We know K. Rool got in because of the ballot, but the rest is really unknown. I did vote for Shadow back then but most Sonic fans were pushing for Tails or Eggman at the time as Shadow was in AT hell still.

Smash Apprentice

I think it's kinda funny that they would be surprised a popular character's deconfirmation would cause a lot of disappointment, especially after Waluigi.

I usually roll my eyes at people who act like AT statues is a stab to the back of their characters. I would have loved to play as Shovel Knight, Krystal, or Bomberman but I was happy enough to see them regardless.

Still, thinking people would be excited to see some new animations for ATs that were considered popular/"likely" in the final direct was tone deaf of them.

Smash Cadet

The case seems to be that Sakurai chose characters that were either; Nintendo characters and/or veterans. There's no doubt at all that characters like Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf were highly requested in the ballot due to their omission in 4. Hell, I even voted for Wolf and was hoping he'd be DLC. K. Rool and Ridley have long history with Nintendo and have been requested for ages. Isabelle is popular, Chrom was also widely requested after his treatment in 4. Simon is a iffy character, but he has been requested since the Brawl days and possibly even longer. And he has a history with Nintendo as well. In Shadow's case, I believe he was high in the ballot but third parties are a roll of the dice when it comes to representation. Sakurai might want to add him, but the end of the day it's up to Sega. I still believe that's why he isn't playable. I do agree that if Shadow was always planned to be an Assist Trophy that the hints were unintentional. It seems that every third party has at least two Assist Trophies each, and Shadow and Knuckles were the top picks; one that actively fights and another that affects the match.

Regarding DLC, he's not in wave 1. That's just not happening. But I see possibility of him being added in a future wave. Both Chrom and Isabelle have reused models (Final Smash and Assist Trophy from 4), Sakurai could easily do the same for Shadow, or even Isaac. And again, Chrom has 500 appearances in Smash Ultimate. Anything is possible, the best option is to stay optimistic.

Smash Ace

Sonic having 2 stages and 2 ATs is excellent. He's the only third party series in Smash Ultimate with two stages to his name, a feat not even Pac-Man was able to accomplish. Having two ATs, while disappointing that one wasn't playable, still shows that SEGA was willing to negotiate use of their characters in a greater manner. The series also has an impressive amount of Spirits, going so far as to get characters like Gamma and even the Werehog.

The increased Bayonetta representation is simply a result of her being included in the base game this time rather than the absolute last DLC character. She still has less music, stages, and ATs than Sonic. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

If SEGA didn't care for their fans then please explain to me why Sonic Mania happened.

Mostly to please the portion of the fans who wanted more of the Classic Era of Sonic rather than Modern (and to tie it as a direct prequel to Sonic Forces), which has lately been what Sega's been pushing for a while now since Generations (I know Classic Sonic wasn't in Lost World, but the game itself felt more like it belonged in the Classic Era rather than the Modern Era (plus most of the ides for the gameplay were taken from Sonic X-treme, a famous canceled game that was supposed to be Sonic's answer to Super Mario 64), Sega's trying too hard to please both sides of the Sonic Fandom these days.

The point I'm making for Bayo is that, she's getting a 3rd game (which is coming out in 2019, which is right around when Smash DLC comes out), so if Sega's getting a 2nd rep for one of their existing series, it'll be from Bayonetta's due to the new game (Sakurai always wants to rep the newest game that's out), plus Bayonetta represents Modern Era of Sega, while Sonic reps the Classic era of Sega, Shadow would be clearly repping Modern Sega if he had gotten in which would conflict with Sega's decision making on who to add, this explains why Shadow will likely not get in as a future fighter for Smash Bros, if Sonic had a new game out in 2019, then maybe, but at this point, Shadow's chances are forever at 0% for now until the next game (as some has stated here before, the large support will likely boost Shadow's chances up, but it also depends on who's taking over from Sakurai as this is clearly his last Smash Game).

The case seems to be that Sakurai chose characters that were either; Nintendo characters and/or veterans. There's no doubt at all that characters like Ice Climbers, Snake, and Wolf were highly requested in the ballot due to their omission in 4. Hell, I even voted for Wolf and was hoping he'd be DLC. K. Rool and Ridley have long history with Nintendo and have been requested for ages. Isabelle is popular, Chrom was also widely requested after his treatment in 4. Simon is a iffy character, but he has been requested since the Brawl days and possibly even longer. And he has a history with Nintendo as well. In Shadow's case, I believe he was high in the ballot but third parties are a roll of the dice when it comes to representation. Sakurai might want to add him, but the end of the day it's up to Sega. I still believe that's why he isn't playable. I do agree that if Shadow was always planned to be an Assist Trophy that the hints were unintentional. It seems that every third party has at least two Assist Trophies each, and Shadow and Knuckles were the top picks; one that actively fights and another that affects the match.

Regarding DLC, he's not in wave 1. That's just not happening. But I see possibility of him being added in a future wave. Both Chrom and Isabelle have reused models (Final Smash and Assist Trophy from 4), Sakurai could easily do the same for Shadow, or even Isaac. And again, Chrom has 500 appearances in Smash Ultimate. Anything is possible, the best option is to stay optimistic.

This bodes very well for the Tails fanbase then, seeing as Sakurai is is pulling from the classic era of video gaming (which is where Tails is from), not the modern era (which is where Shadow is directly tied to), seeing as Tails does meets the requirements to be in Wave 1:

Tails would bring:

A new Sonic Stage (Likely to be Emerald Hill Zone, which is just as iconic as Green Hill Zone if not more, plus it gives us another Classic Sonic stage).

More Music for the Sonic series (possibly includes even the ones that might have been axed or just simple new remixes of the older stages).

Tails had a Mii costume in Smash 4 (granted so did Knuckles, but Knux was always doomed to be an Assist from the get-go), but Tails is far more popular than Knux by a longshot.

He's also the Luigi to Sonic's Mario (which is another big requirement), and Sakurai would definitely want to do that, it's one of the main reasons why Ken got in as Ryu's Echo (He's the SF's Luigi to Ryu's Mario).

Tails would fit in well as the 2nd Sonic rep, far better than Shadow would (he could still fill in as an Echo or semi-clone), assuming if Tails or the 2nd Bayonetta rep ends up being the Sega DLC character for Wave 1 (more likely to be Bayo's series due to Bayonetta 3 coming out right when Smash DLC is underway so it wouldn't be a stretch for Sakurai to already start working on said DLC character), at this point, I'm throwing in my support for Tails for now as the de-facto 2nd Sonic rep for DLC (while still supporting Shadow for a possible Wave 2, thankfully Nintendo didn't rule out a Wave 2 which is good news, while ATs-to-playable is ruled out for Wave 1, they might be in Wave 2), our best hope for Shadow is, we gotta support whoever is in the first Wave of DLC and go from there (not sure if this includes the plant in a pot, seeing as he's not a part of the Wave 1 bundle).

Not every 3rd Party has 2 Assist Trophies, Metal Gear still only has one in Grey Fox (could have added Raiden as the 2nd Assist but that would be causing conflict with Playstation: All-Stars (who even had Shadow the Hedgehog planned as a playable character at one point for DLC but was scrapped for the same reasons), and Final Fantasy VII still doesn't have their Assist Trophy yet (where's Tifa or Sephiroth?) and if I'm not mistaken Pac-Man still only has one Assist Trophy too in the Ghosts, and SF also has one Assist Trophy as well that was recently put in (and it's a perfect one in Guile).

That’s saddening to hear about Isaac though it sounds like Sakurai didn’t see him as relevant enough. I’m pretty sure he will get his promotion one day. As for Shadow I’m still going to support him regardless. I hope others don’t give up and remain vocal and hopefully Nintendo sees that we want the ultimate lifeform to join smash.

Of course he didn't see him as relevant enough, GS is one of Nintendo's smallest and most unknown IPs that they have right now (which was only recently re-added as a Nintendo IP just for this game), until GS gets a brand new game with Issac as the star and gets recognized as one of Nintendo's best IPs, that's when he'll get promoted, but until then, AT forever.

Whip It Good

Well, yeah, Sonic is heavily based upon his classic form. It wasn't till Ultimate there was any decent emphasis on his Modern incarnations. The Homing Attack is from Sonic 3D Blast, not Sonic Adventure. This time it got changed to use the lock-on from Sonic Unleashed. On the other hand, his Down Air was actually a modern move, from Sonic Battle, basically Shadow's Air Attack, called Shadow Rocket.

Smash Lord

Well, yeah, Sonic is heavily based upon his classic form. It wasn't till Ultimate there was any decent emphasis on his Modern incarnations. The Homing Attack is from Sonic 3D Blast, not Sonic Adventure. This time it got changed to use the lock-on from Sonic Unleashed. On the other hand, his Down Air was actually a modern move, from Sonic Battle, basically Shadow's Air Attack, called Shadow Rocket.

Admittedly one thing that's crossed my mind is Classic Sonic. Everyone knows how much he's been getting pushed again ever since Generations in 2011, and I feel like if Sakurai wanted a second Sonic character he'd likely vouch for Tails or Shadow. SEGA on the other hand would toss aside both and push for Classic Sonic, which Sakurai would in turn reject given how much Sonic's moveset takes from Classic already. Neither could come to an agreement, so Tails was Spirited while Shadow returned to AT status.

I find a little striking that there doesn't appear to be a Classic Sonic Spirit when we get other things like Jet and the Werehog. I worry that SEGA would keep pushing him and Sonic would not only have two similar stages, but two similar characters as well.

(note I'm in no way a Classic hater, I just dislike how much push he's been getting over Modern to the point where Modern can barely stand on his own anymore)

Whip It Good

Admittedly one thing that's crossed my mind is Classic Sonic. Everyone knows how much he's been getting pushed again ever since Generations in 2011, and I feel like if Sakurai wanted a second Sonic character he'd likely vouch for Tails or Shadow. SEGA on the other hand would toss aside both and push for Classic Sonic, which Sakurai would in turn reject given how much Sonic's moveset takes from Classic already. Neither could come to an agreement, so Tails was Spirited while Shadow returned to AT status.

I find a little striking that there doesn't appear to be a Classic Sonic Spirit when we get other things like Jet and the Werehog. I worry that SEGA would keep pushing him and Sonic would not only have two similar stages, but two similar characters as well.

(note I'm in no way a Classic hater, I just dislike how much push he's been getting over Modern to the point where Modern can barely stand on his own anymore)

Yeah, I'm kind of sick of Classic Sonic showing up in every modern game too. It's not needed. Let modern be its own thing.

Though my point was that Sonic in Smash is pretty much Classic-based with a few notes from Modern.

Obviously the various Sonic content isn't the same way. It's just Sonic specifically. This is why his playstyle is mostly "spinning". It's what he's known for. I won't pretend the moveset could be more interesting, but at least it's focused.

I agree Shadow is a wonderful way to represent the more modern side. Whether a clone/echo or otherwise, he can do so in many ways. His personality being darker, for instance.

Smash Lord

Yeah, I'm kind of sick of Classic Sonic showing up in every modern game too. It's not needed. Let modern be its own thing.

Though my point was that Sonic in Smash is pretty much Classic-based with a few notes from Modern.

Obviously the various Sonic content isn't the same way. It's just Sonic specifically. This is why his playstyle is mostly "spinning". It's what he's known for. I won't pretend the moveset could be more interesting, but at least it's focused.

I agree Shadow is a wonderful way to represent the more modern side. Whether a clone/echo or otherwise, he can do so in many ways. His personality being darker, for instance.

Yeah, though in this case I don't mind because Smash generally celebrates Sonic's history as it does for most other franchises.

Can't help going back to Adventure 2 and his own game and whatnot and seeing how Shadow is almost 1:1 to Sonic still, but with newer developments I'm inclined to believe Shadow was never considered at all. Most people don't seem to care for Sonic to get anything new, least of all SEGA. A shame but what are ya gonna do?

Whip It Good

Yeah, though in this case I don't mind because Smash generally celebrates Sonic's history as it does for most other franchises.

Can't help going back to Adventure 2 and his own game and whatnot and seeing how Shadow is almost 1:1 to Sonic still, but with newer developments I'm inclined to believe Shadow was never considered at all. Most people don't seem to care for Sonic to get anything new, least of all SEGA. A shame but what are ya gonna do?

I just love that Sonic 06's theme is not only in Smash in some way, but also Sonic's victory theme. I love how we have references to more than one Sonic game, not just classic. Despite not liking Unleashed, and admittedly the music didn't do as much for me, I'm glad it has content too(though the story was pretty sweet, heh). I could go on for other games.