Circumcision is a violent act against children but there aren't laws against it

it's not the baby boy's choice to have part of his penis ripped off.

it is the woman's choice whether or not to follow through with a pregnancy. she is grown and capable of making that decision for herself. for as long as the child is within the mother's body, it is the woman's choice. the mother gives consent.

I doubt in the baby in utero is asking to be killed either. And yes I know, technically its an embryo, but the embryo is not asking to be killed. My old dr office had a pic of an object going toward the "embryo" and the "embryo" scooting away.

I dont get the original question though, if someone believes that bc is wrong then that would mean they are following the path of "letting God's will happen"......wouldnt a baby within a marriage be part of that if that is what they believed about bc? I could be wrong because I do not believe bc is wrong and I dont understand the reasoning.

I do think if you dont want a baby within a marriage, use b/c, whatever that may be: condoms, bc pill, vasectomy, NFP, tubal ligation, or all of the above.

I cant imagine being in a marriage in which a child that happened on accident would be such a horrid occurance.........I just dont get it.

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I cant imagine being in a marriage in which a child that happened on accident would be such a horrid occurance.........I just dont get it.

This is my feeling too!

If I am married and having sex with my husband than a baby that results of that is my responsibility to raise. If I don't want a child THAT much than sterilization would be appropriate not aborting my child. Why should the child have to pay for our mistake.

it is the woman's choice whether or not to follow through with a pregnancy. she is grown and capable of making that decision for herself. for as long as the child is within the mother's body, it is the woman's choice. the mother gives consent.

babies aren't asked if they want to have their genitals mutilated.

Ya know, I'm sick of hearing this. I really am. How many foreskins were destroyed via abortion last year. Do you care about those foreskins? Apparently not.

Maybe it's more convenient for mother's to have their sons circumcised... that's their right just as much as removing a whole fetus (including a foreskin if it's a boy) from their wombs, huh?

[QUOTE=sabrosina]This just begs the question: Irresponsible sex is OK as long as you're willing to give your baby away? I know that might sound extreme but if you follow the logic through.. thats what you're saying.

I'm not trying to be rude, but are we saying that irresponsible sex is OK, because you can always get an abortion if you get pregnant?

Wow, if bc doesn't work, than it means I'm screwed in terms of TTC this Fall. I've never used more than one form of bc and I've never gotten pregnant - and I've been sexually active for 10 years (I'm 33). Could it be that I'm just not very fertile You know, over the years, every single time I felt relief at my period starting, I've also thought "you're happy now, but one day one day that same red blood will signify the end of a month of your dreams." What we wish for with all our hearts at 25 is what we dread the most at 35.

Anyway, I always asumed user failure accounted for BC failure rates - every woman I know who became pregnant 1) wasn't using bc, 2) was using the "pull out" method , 3) was inconsistant with pills, or 4) had the condom break (and I've never heard of a condom breaking after high school, so again I assumed user failure).

Guys you can't argue abortion. One person believes it isn't a baby until it can live outside of the mother's body, until then it is part of the mother's body (and we don't require anyone in this country to provide thier body as life support). Someone else believes that its a baby at conception. How can we argue these things - they are beliefs.

I guess we can argue the consequences and motives behind having laws that endorse one set of beliefs or another, but these threads always go back to the belief inspired rhetoric: "muder poor babies" and (Ok, I am pro-life so it is hard for me to think of an example of the inflamatory pro-choice rhetoric - but I am 100% sure that a pro-lifer would have 100 examples of inflated rhetoric that we use). Point is so much of the abortion argument and argument strategies are based on belief that we get nothing but more indignant. There has to be a better way . . .

This just begs the question: Irresponsible sex is OK as long as you're willing to give your baby away? I know that might sound extreme but if you follow the logic through.. thats what you're saying.

I'm not trying to be rude, but are we saying that irresponsible sex is OK, because you can always get an abortion if you get pregnant?

Just a quick response. My point is this: Irresponsible sex is not excusable in ANY situation. Not if you're willing to give away your baby, and certainly not because you're willing to terminate the pregnancy. For whatever reason I find the pro-life groups repeatedly 'justifying' irresponsible sex by stating that giving a baby up for adoption is somehow a redemption for having made irresponsible decisions about having sex.

BOTH options, adoption and abortion, are means for the irresponsible party to 'wash your hands' of the poor decisions made. And as an adoptee myself I do not see that either is a 'good' option.

Responsibility for your actions: contraceptives, abstinence, or raising the children you create are the only appropriate options, in my own humble opinion. And thats just it.. I have an opinion that I live by given my morals and values and everyone else has that right as well.. provided we all act within the law.

Responsibility for your actions: contraceptives, abstinence, or raising the children you create are the only appropriate options, in my own humble opinion. And thats just it.. I have an opinion that I live by given my morals and values and everyone else has that right as well.. provided we all act within the law.[/QUOTE]

mamawannabe: FYI, I used the pill for 6 years, went off it for 3 months to clear and regulate my body, and got pg. the first month of TTC, so I wouldn't worry about your fertility because you didn't get pg. while using b/c.

For people who don't believe in birth control, are married couples supposed to abstain if they don't want to have children? Or are they supposed to not marry in the first place? Or what?

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Just MHO but this doesn't seem to have much to do with fertility. Just can't be in activism anymore...

As a PP said it's a matter of moral beliefs. I'm still trying to figure out how someone can be morally opposed to BC but not abortion.

IMO, if you don't want children that's OK. You have every right to marry but you do not have the right to irresponsible sex and termination after that. There is no eason people can't abstain during fertile times, why are people acting like it's so hard or trying? To answer the question, yes if you are that opposed to BC and children you should abstain or be fixed!

I'm pro-life, but I'm SO GLAD we have BC. I could fall into that religous crap about BC and God.. yada yada. I'm not going to do it! A life VS preventing Life.
I'd rather see any woman use the pill or what have you than keep getting pregnant and aborting her baby.

After this baby Dh is getting a vas. If that doesn't work we will be happy to accept that child as a gift that we were meant to have.

Do you prochoicers think it's OK to have multiple abortions? If contraception failed, would you support the idea of having say, 1 per year for 10 years? More? As many times as you "fall" pregnant?

There are some people who are opposed to both birth control and abortion. Even periodic abstinence is opposed by some people, and doesn't always work anyway. The OP and I are wondering if people who hold these views expect that people who don't want children should abstain from sex altogether, even if they're married.

As far as your other question, I'm pro-choice and I don't think abortion is okay. But I think passing laws to make it a crime is even worse.

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For people who don't believe in birth control, are married couples supposed to abstain if they don't want to have children? Or are they supposed to not marry in the first place? Or what?

I think contraception that prevents pregnancy is okay... but any kind of contraception that prevents an already fertilized embryo from implanting or keeps an implanted embryo from being able to stay that way is abortion.

I suppose I personally believe that I should be aware of my cycles and if I'm not willing to use preventative measures I should abstain. I'm not going to tell anyone what to do... but I do view any kind of abortion as murder.