My wife and I were involved in the school reform of the 1960s and ’70s, and we think both views in last Sunday’s point-counterpoint totally miss the point, just as similar views did then about what is most needed in children’s education.

With the current unemployment rate at 29 percent for ages 16 to 19, how will the new Common Core education standards help them find meaningful work?

The writers of both views in the article obviously still believe schools primarily should produce workers for the corporate worldwide technocracy. At least youth today have what we lacked: smartphones and worldwide Internet education, which is the best hope for those currently unemployed.

Self-directed education has always been what youth most need, and schools should totally be helping them. We learned that 50 years ago. Our youth know it.

Jack Ekstrom, Littleton

This letter was published in the Aug. 25 edition.

Once again, someone has trotted out the tired old comparison of American public schools with the rest of the “industrialized countries,” pointing out that the U.S. ranks 14 in reading, 17th in science and a “dismal 25th in math.” These comparisons are like apples and oranges. Comparing the U.S. with its patchwork of curriculum standards, teacher education requirements and pathetic property-tax funding formulas to other countries might be more meaningful if each state were compared with those same countries, since some states really do fund their public schools more equitably than others.

Most of those other countries, particularly South Korea, Finland and Singapore, fully fund public schools at the federal level and not at the local level, where our sometimes anemic funding levels depend largely upon out-of-date property-tax formulas that reward schools in affluent areas and penalize most inner-city urban and rural school districts.

Eric J. Schmidt, Littleton

This letter was published in the Aug. 25 edition.

Can’t we just leave teachers and administrators alone and let them do their jobs? They have to jump through this hoop for these folks, then that hoop for another. I can understand why so many teachers simply get fed up and leave the profession. Is teaching actually a profession anymore or are they simply bureaucrats who implement directives from above? Directives that often treat other people’s children as the latest educational experiment.

Let’s quit telling teachers what to do, how to do it, and how often it needs to be done. If a teacher or administrator is incompetent, then help them improve or replace them. Otherwise let’s allow them to do their jobs and be held accountable by the results they generate. That is the only educational reform that is needed.

John Conlin, Littleton

This letter was published in the Aug. 25 edition.

For information on how to send a letter to the editor, click here[3]. Follow eLetters[4] on Twitter to receive updates about new letters to the editor when they’re posted.

Eric Schmidt seems to forget that South Korea, Finland, and Singapore combined would fit inside many of our states.

The test score comparison is perfectly fair, and it shows the dismal state of our education system. The most certain thing about our system is that its administrators have no clue how to fix it.

#2 Comment By Robtf777 On August 24, 2013 @ 11:13 pm

“Debating Common Core standards for education.”
===============
Why is there a debate?

Why is there an issue?

Why is there a problem?

Most people who are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s,……..were raised and educated in public schools where students were taught…..the majority of students learned what they needed to learn…….in a era BEFORE…..Liberals came up with “new”methods”……that turned out to be classic FAILURES.

The Liberal Ideology in the Public Education System……turned out to be as much as a classic FAILURE as everything else the Liberal Ideology mucks up every time they get their hand on it.

The Liberal Ideology that……blacks are “different”……that “non-whites” are “different”…..and can’t and don’t respond to “traditional” education methods…….was and is a bunch of racist bigotry……that lowered the standards of what is expected of the students and lowered the standards of how they are taught.

Just as the Liberal Ideology of Sexual Freedom has ENSLAVED entire generations to sexual immorality……and with that sexual immorality…….the current 100 MILLION current cases of STDs in the US……the expectation of another 20 MILLION NEW cases in the next 12 months……and that has resulted in the majority of the 50 MILLION abortions that Liberals defend since 1973……..the Liberal Ideology of New and Improved Methods and Standards of Education…….has left FAR TOO MANY STUDENTS…….not only UNPREPARED for collegiate studies……but UNPREPARED to go on to the next grade level and to even graduate from high school.

#3 Comment By toohip On August 25, 2013 @ 10:08 am

So let me explain something. Public education does not exist for the benefit of students or for the benefit of their parents. It exists for the benefit of the social order. We have discovered as a species that it is useful to have an educated population. You do not need to be a student or have a child who is a student to benefit from public education. Every second of every day of your life, you benefit from public education. So let me explain for why I like to pay taxes for schools, even though I don’t personally have a kid in school: It’s because I don’t like living in a country with a bunch of stupid people.

Best wishes,
John Green

#4 Comment By toohip On August 25, 2013 @ 10:25 am

These three letters hit the issue square on. The first letter points out that “back to basic” education is not meeting the needs of a society that demands of a modern world, and “read’in and ciphering” isn’t enough. We can’t just prepare kids for college, but need to also include the trades. In Germany kids at the age of 14 decide whether to continue their education for a university degree or the trades, and the gov’t provides the specific curriculum.

The second letter points out this misconception that the U.S. is a failure in public education compared to other countries, which on face value doesn’t make sense when we spend more on education than many other countries. But the point is well made that the Feds should be providing public education not the states, and not the counties, where there is a disproportionate effort based on local income. Why do you think so many parents actually choose a home based not on price or geographic location, but on the quality of the schools? Until we respect public education for what it does for our society and our future, we’ll never be able to fix the problem of so-called ‘failing schools.” And the elitist private education opportunists are waiting around the corner, with such ignorant suggests as vouchers.

The third letter points out that the new phenomena of education “wannabes.” They are the naive who not only disrespect teachers and their profession, but also believe “anyone can teach.” How hard can it be? Try it sometime. It’s not just a simple 4 year degree, it’s classroom experience and certification BEFORE you get a teaching “license” to teach, just like doctor has to have a license to practice medicine. It’s that serious and that professional. But school systems like DPS are being invaded by superintendents like Boasburg and Bennett, who ran the school system like a business, incorporating the wannabe program where anyone with a college degree could take a 6-week crash course, and be inserted into the classroom as at the same time they take necessary courses to get a teaching degree and license. Is this who you want teaching your kids?

#5 Comment By toohip On August 25, 2013 @ 10:26 am

Are you an educator? So how would you know if these “test score comparisons are perfectly fair?” Another “wannabe!”

#6 Comment By Tbone On August 25, 2013 @ 10:37 am

So education hinges on square footage now?

#7 Comment By Al On August 25, 2013 @ 11:16 am

America voted for Obama twice. Can’t get much stupider then that.

#8 Comment By guest On August 25, 2013 @ 11:38 am

And John appears to not be the brightest bulb in the pack. To be uneducated does not mean you are stupid. It may mean you are ignorant, but not stupid.

#9 Comment By johnrpack On August 25, 2013 @ 1:07 pm

The author was claiming that a state cannot be reasonably compared to these tiny countries. Indeed, it can. In fact, it would be reasonable to compare some US cities to Singapore — based purely on area and population.

#10 Comment By johnrpack On August 25, 2013 @ 1:13 pm

So this discussion is closed to non-educators? I apologize; I hadn’t realized that. (And we wonder why the morons in charge of our schools can’t come up with anything new. Maybe they should consider some outside ideas?)

As a parent and an employer, my first concern with the schools is the quality of the graduates. On that basis, it’s fair to say US schools are 27th of 29 developed nations. Our graduates are too dumb to take third-world jobs.

Now, you’re right, the school systems don’t compare in methods and amounts of funding, national priorities and cultural values, in curriculum, length of school year/day, or in many other ways. But it’s perfectly fair to say our schools are not producing graduates of equal quality (and that overlooks the dropout problem).

One we grasp the fact that our schools are failing (in fact, one wonders if it should count as child abuse to send a kid to some of our public schools), then we can debate how to improve. The school systems of other nations offer some ideas. To fail to see that is to stick one’s head in the sand.

#11 Comment By peterpi On August 25, 2013 @ 3:39 pm

Gezz, now you’re playing the same word games thor does.
At least Al isn’t trying to be artificially polite.

#12 Comment By peterpi On August 25, 2013 @ 3:42 pm

Thank you for being direct, and I mean that.
I loathe people who try to hide behind paternalistic statements like “Obama voters are low-information”, and then tie themselves in knots trying to show they don’t think Obama voters were stupid, no siree.
You’re at least forthright and honest about your opinion of Obama voters.

#13 Comment By Amy On August 25, 2013 @ 4:03 pm

I am a former teacher with 10 years experience and I have to disagree with John Pack when he mentions that district administration has no clue how to improve education. The administration does know how to change the system but doesn’t because, quite frankly, they have very little incentive to improve. As long as people continue to blindly vote for the annual or bi-annual mill levy increase or to fund new education programs without demanding transparency and efficiency, our schools will continue to deteriorate.

Sadly, education has become our nation’s newest cash cow and has very little to do with actually educating our kids. When I started teaching, the CSAP was barely a blip on the radar and was treated as just another standardized test: two weeks of classroom prep and two weeks of testing. However, later incarnations of the CSAP and the current TCAP now demand months of classroom time and have become the central focus of the school year. And why? Because that’s where the money comes from and people will do anything for that carrot, including cheat, lie, and steal (i.e. the entire Frank Roti debacle).

As a nation, we need to learn that throwing gobs of money at something will not improve performance in certain disciplines, such as education or medicine, because they are not about the financial bottom line. Continuing to look at everything as though it is a money-making enterprise invites disaster and will ultimately leave the United States at the bottom of the infrastructure barrel.

#14 Comment By Dano2 On August 25, 2013 @ 6:35 pm

Amen, brother. My older sister was a teacher for 28 years. I say ‘was’, because her District did yet another round of cuts and decided to say to her kids: YOYO. I will say that not all schools are bad, but the rule of thumb is they are.

Best

D

#15 Comment By guest On August 25, 2013 @ 6:54 pm

Sounds like you might be in favor of vouchers.

#16 Comment By guest On August 25, 2013 @ 6:56 pm

No, there really is a difference between ignorant and stupid. And if someone is going to make a comment to be used by people online, s/he should know the difference.

#17 Comment By guest On August 25, 2013 @ 6:57 pm

I think I remember statements like this in Uncle Remus’s Songs of the South. Trying to get us to throw you in the briar patch?

#18 Comment By rightwingliberal On August 26, 2013 @ 6:20 am

When I graduated high school in 1992 in NC, I placed out of all college English classes and two semesters of calculus. There was no common core mumbo jumbo, state standards, state tests. I was pushed to work hard and get good grades. I was placed in AP English and the last time I worked on grammar was the sixth grade. We read, and there is no better substitute than reading for learning grammar.The education system is fine. Students and parents are just too lazy to take advantage of it. The Libs have created a society where the government will provide everything. Learning by osmosis, if you will. No need to work at it.

#19 Comment By Tbone On August 26, 2013 @ 12:02 pm

Sure, if you want to be dishonest and cherry pick your stats, you could. Lots of cherry pickin goin on today.

#20 Comment By johnrpack On August 26, 2013 @ 6:40 pm

OK, here’s your chance — present whatever facts and statistics you wish. Convince us that our education system is a good one.

But keep in mind one statistic that means more to me than others. When my company looks for new employees, we have a hard time finding American citizens who can do the job — we have Indian and Chinese applicants outnumbering Americans 10 to 1. There simply aren’t Americans with the skills to replace me when I retire. That tells me a lot about the decline of American schools.

#21 Comment By Tbone On August 26, 2013 @ 7:05 pm

I guess you’ll have to show me where I said anything about ours being the best educational system in the world.

#22 Comment By peterpi On August 27, 2013 @ 6:27 pm

For some reason, it takes two days for your replies to be screened for hazardous materials — is Disqus run by the TSA? NSA? — and allowed to reach my innocent, virginal eyes via my e-mail box. That’s absurd. I usually disagree with you vehemently, but you’re one of the saner posters here.
Anyway,
You and thor and others are merely trying to be conservatively correct.
Al above at least stated his opinion honestly.