~ "The world was made so that Christ might be born…." ~David Fergusson

Peter Always Needs a Paul, Church Government

Just a quick one. I am reconsidering my ecclesiology. I grew up as an “Evangelical,” my dad is an ordained CBA (Conservative Baptist Assocation) pastor; this denomination, as most “Evangelical churches” prides itself upon the autonomy of the local church. Well, I’m up against a scenario wherein this outlook is being seriously challenged; just from a pragmatic/pastoral standpoint. The congregational model of the church (one that emphasizes autonomy) has some problems relative to leadership accountable. Without sharing the details of the “scenario” I’m referring to, it is clear that this model has some deep rooted problems; it is like a Peter without a Paul (see Gal. 2). If the leadership in this church government model is inept or immature, and faced with a scenario where maturity is called for, and then they act out of their immaturity the laity or congregant can find themselves in a seriously compromised situation. This is what’s going on with a friend of mine. He’s got a problem, the church doesn’t want to hear his side of the problem, instead they have sided with the “other side’s” perspective without even giving an honest hearing to my friend’s side — they are sorely mistaken and unwise in their response and actions.

My point. If the leadership had some accountability, like they would in an Episcopelian church model or Presbyterian, he could appeal; and ask for a third-party objective hearing. But nope, instead my friend has been excommunicated (it’s a “Bible church” non-denominational). This is a problem.

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10 thoughts on “Peter Always Needs a Paul, Church Government”

Accountability is essential.
Not sure whether restructuring is the answer, though, as there can be problems with the building of an impersonal, centrally-dictated hierarchy just as there are with the ingrown, maverick “we’ll do it our own way” group.

Perhaps the error of either extreme lies in the attitude Christians tend to have toward the Church in general. Are we to pattern after a business model, hiring or firing pastor and elders as bosses and managers whom we expect to keep things running smoothly? Or, should we recognize pastors and elders in a more familial sense, as being mature believers (brothers in Christ) to whom we turn for advice and guidance?

The same thing happened to my dad — he was a Baptist pastor for a short time (before I was born). He was left without a church — the church he planted — and left the ministry altogether, becoming a textile mechanic in order to provide for his family (my older brother was born). He never connected this problem to ecclesiology because he never knew any other church besides Baptist churches. It was all normative to him.

This is indeed a problem. I think much needs to be done with regards to elder/pastor authority in the church. Many churches set the pastors up as little popes. Many who embrace a plurality of elders, essentially – if unwittingly – have a plurality of popes who happen to agree.

Also, a good question is, over what do they have authority? I re-posted something I wrote in 2005 that may help you a bit on this:

One of the problems with a “non-denominational” church is that they can be so opposed to denominations with a higher authority structure they can become their own denomination – nobody else could believe the same things.

Bobby, I want to encourage you in your reconsidering of your ecclesiology. I have done so over the last 5-10 years, and it has been vary painful at times, yet now I consider it to have been necessary. I would encourage you to not only consider the “church government” side of ecclesiology, but also what the church meeting should look like, what place each individual believer has in ministering to others, and where direct authority to each believer comes from.

Be sure of one thing. Ideas have consequences, even severe ones. Even severe ones that most people won’t recognize as being wrong.

I’ve seen my [un?]fair share of inept and immature church leaders who have done harmful things. I’ve also seen very mature church leaders who happen to hold practically immature points about leadership from their favorite celebrity pastor’s book on the subject. Let me ask a question about your friend. Was he excommunicated by the church itself (as in the entire body of believers), or was he excommunicated by merely the leadership? The answer to that will speak volumes.

I agree, there can be the issue of just pushing the leadership problem back one step or two; nevertheless, in this case it would good if there was a third party adjudicator (the church) who could be appealed to.

Kevin,

I’m am really sorry to hear about that! Did you dad ever get invovled in “church life” after that incident?

Kc,

First great to hear from you, brother . . . I hope you’re feeling better (been praying). I agree that the Lord will deal with this issue; often, though, the way He mediates “His dealings” is through other people within His body (like Peter and Paul for example). It would be nice if my friend had someone to appeal to, but since this is a “free-standing” autonomous “Bible church” there really is no accoutablity for the “leadership.” It’s all way too emotional of an ordeal, and sometimes someone “outside” of that situation can offer better perspective and more prudence in dealing with situations — like the one my friend finds himself in.

Steve,

Yes, this is a problem, I’ve written of it too. I was apart of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa for awhile; they pride themselves on not being a denomination. The funny thing is, is that they are one of the biggest denominations in the world right now 😉 ! And yes, CC, for example has an ecclesiological gvt. that functions exactly like the episcopelian model with Pope, Cardinals, Arch-Bishops and Bishops in place.

I’ll have to check out your piece on this, thanks.

I have actually thought all of this through, esp. while in undergrad in Bible College in my ecclesiology class. I am congregational by gvt., but don’t think there is any mandate for any certain kind of church model or gvt. (the NT church appears to have had house churches, with bishops and elders as the leadership — see my former profs book “One Lord, One Faith,” by Rex Koivisto — it’s quite good on all of this stuff). I am just noting some of the problems particular to this situation because of the church gvt., I don’t think this problem then neccesitates that another kind of church gvt is necessarily better; but in this situation a Presbyterian model just might have better pragmatic value.

I’m not totally sure who “booted him.” I think it was the pastor and elders. Of course, he wasn’t excommunicated by the Lord (cf. II Tim 2.13), and never will be. This is why I believe my friend’s pastors are inept and immature. There are other circumstances that I haven’t shared that might bring more clarity to this, but I don’t think I should do that online. This post was really more of a vent than anything 🙂 .

Hey Bobby,
I wrote another long one and then zapped it.
I think a confederation of churches might be the way. There should be a means of higher arbitration to give congregants an option. An ecclesiastical court of arbitration could be set up. The arbitration could be binding for quasi-legal and legal cases such as adultery and fraud, including excommunication for churches/individuals who refuse to comply, and nonbinding for lesser cases. At least the offended party would have “their day in court”.

You’re starting to sound like a Presbyterian 😉 . . . or maybe an ecumenist 🙂 . Actually, if it could be worked out, logistically, what you’re saying isn’t a bad idea. In fact most denominations, even the CBA, has this kind of practice in place — but not non-denominational “Bible churches.”

In other words, I think that even in the CBA, my friend could appeal to the “association” (denomination) given the severity of the action taken by his church (excommunication).

Well there is more to the story, I would say he is “manning up” concerning his circumstances. And I would imagine that eventually he will go to another church — he hasn’t been booted from The Church, just “that church.”

I think we can make a case for “excommunication” from Mt 18, but the scenario I’m referring to is being handled in a way that does not fit the criteria set out by Matthew; IMO, this church has grossly erred (and is).

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My name is Bobby Grow, I run this blog, and "My Book Blog". Feel free to peruse the posts, and I look forward to the interchange.

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A Little Thomas Torrance

"God loves you so utterly and completely that he has given himself for you in Jesus Christ his beloved Son, and has thereby pledged his very being as God for your salvation. In Jesus Christ God has actualised his unconditional love for you in your human nature in such a once for all way, that he cannot go back upon it without undoing the Incarnation and the Cross and thereby denying himself. Jesus Christ died for you precisely because you are sinful and utterly unworthy of him, and has thereby already made you his own before and apart from your ever believing in him. He has bound you to himself by his love in a way that he will never let you go, for even if you refuse him and damn yourself in hell his love will never cease. Therefore, repent and believe in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Saviour." ~T. F. Torrance, "The Mediation of Christ", 94