JCoz wrote:I was in a conversation this weekend that pertained to this subject, just wanted to get a consensus on TCF.

What do you say about a man's taste in beer whose favorites are of the Busch, Miller, Bud, Natty, Strohs, Coors, etc....ilk when money is not a (major) factor?

It is fair to say that within the context of the world of beer, these are in fact, shitty beers?

I mean, to be clear, it's perfectly within the rights of anyone to enjoy shitty beer, like bad movies or fat women.

I just wonder how many you know prefer those beers AND would consider them good offerings within the world of beer.

Discuss.

JC, what we might think of as craft beer was pretty much non-existant until about 1985 when Sam Adams started shipping to the midwest. Until the 60's and 70's, unless you were lucky enough to be on the northern pacific coast from about SF up and smart enough to get anchor instead of Hamms, those beers you list were mostly all the beer you could buy. Bud, Miller, Strohs, Genny WAS beer in C-town in the day. For example, Coors was this huge holy grail beer past the Misissippi as late as the 70's; a cultutal phenominin. I think even a stupid Burt Reynolds movie was based on that. So what you think of as crap was all there really was available, at least in the great lakes region.

So I guess what I'm saying is that for like men over 50 or so, unless they changed with the times of the micro brewing revolution, they are just drinking what they grew up with, esp when it comes to the off brands like Genny & Strohs. Those were huge in Cleveland in the day since we had no city beer other than some Philly Schmidts POC offshoot and those came in from Detroit and Buffalo. Thank God Hudi and Arn stayed in their shitty cties as the local brew.

If they are your age what does it say? I think Mike Polk did a song about them recently, esp Pabst . LOL.

But I still have s soft spot in my heart for a classic cheap American lager with an old time brand like Strohs, Genny, PBR, Scaeffer, Miller HL. I hve no use for Meister Brau or Keystone of that shit.

I have NEVER considered myself a beer expert.....Quite frankly, I don't know exactly what a beer expert is.

But doesn't everything come down to subjectivity?.......I mean that everyone's tastes are different so to call something "shitty" is an opinion......Not good, not bad, not indifferent, just an opinion.

Some people think Dom Perignon is absolutly the best.....Why, cause it's $300/bottle?.....Yet, I know other "experts" who think this is a shitty champagne....So, it's not about the money.

I was one of the over 50 guys that thought getting Coors or Olympia "smuggled" to us in the mid 70's was scoring something special......Turned out, a lot of people (once they drank it)thought it was shitty tasting and went back to their PBRs, Duke, Blatz, etc...All a matter of personal taste....

A couple of times I have tried some of the beers guy would post about in "What are you drinking now?"......Didn't like 'em so I went back to Coors Light and Bud Light.........Most recently, my son-in-law is a Yinzer and he has brought me Yuengling and Yuengling Light, both of which aren't bad, but that's my opinion.

JCoz wrote:I was in a conversation this weekend that pertained to this subject, just wanted to get a consensus on TCF.

What do you say about a man's taste in beer whose favorites are of the Busch, Miller, Bud, Natty, Strohs, Coors, etc....ilk when money is not a (major) factor?

It is fair to say that within the context of the world of beer, these are in fact, shitty beers?

I mean, to be clear, it's perfectly within the rights of anyone to enjoy shitty beer, like bad movies or fat women.

I just wonder how many you know prefer those beers AND would consider them good offerings within the world of beer.

Discuss.

I say don't judge a man by the beer he drinks, or at least until you have drained a sixer in his shoes. Something like that.

Seriously, I wouldn't call them shitty beers, although I would rather have 2 well brewed artisanal beers than a whole case of bud lite. The ones you listed do, from time to time, have their place. They're a certain category of beer (light American lagers) that do have some merits on certain occasions - good social drinking beer when you don't want to get hammered, Monday Night Football beer when you have to get up and work the next day, outside on a hot day doing yard work, at a ball game and driving home later, playing golf, penalty euchre.......

I don't need to be patient, they're going to be shit forever. - CDT, discussing my favorite NFL team

JCoz wrote:It is fair to say that within the context of the world of beer, these are in fact, shitty beers?

I mean, to be clear, it's perfectly within the rights of anyone to enjoy shitty beer, like bad movies or fat women.

I just wonder how many you know prefer those beers AND would consider them good offerings within the world of beer.

If you can see through it, it's shitty beer. That being said, beer is like sex, even when it is bad, it's still pretty good. So if you're at someone's house, and they offer you a beer, you enjoy it regardless of brand.

Beer is chosen based on activity:Activities in the midday sun = High LifeBBQ/ gathering you know you're leaving within an hour or two= High LifeBBQ/ gathering that starts around 3 and will go well into the night= 6er of the good stuff to start, then High LifeWith good food and on holidays/ special occasions= good stuffBall game activities= High LifeMovies= High LifeDays that end in Y= High Life

I wouldn't judge the MAN, just his taste in beer - yeah you are right mattvan that this is generally subjective.

Again, what I'm saying it is different to say there are times for shitty beer and I can and do enjoy them at those times, but it doesn't IMO make them quality beers at any point.

Notable exception being when you want a beer and have limited/no selection - any beer is good beer compared to no beer.

But if the beers credo includes drinking it "ice cold", then regardless of tastes you are most likely drinking a shitty beer.

If I'm buying for myself then my everyday-man's go to would be rolling rock. Never would drink bud, miller, coors - unless it was free or the only available choice or both. Maybe Rock belongs right there with those.

Good comments on perspective JB. Still, the dif between those beers and some of the craft brews around and available today, in every style of beer, IMO is like standard def vs HD....25 years is plenty of time to know the difference.

It's not like craft brew Co.'s don't do pilsner or pale ale. They make the styles of those American classics - they just do it much better IMO.

BTW, all this is in good fun conversation. I'm not the fucking beer police and you'd NEVER see me poking someone at a tailgate to say they have shitty taste in beer. Hell you wouldn't find me drinking my fav craft beer at a tailgate (at least before the game) at all. Forums can sometimes confuse how serious an issue is, so I thought I'd put that out there.

So the Lead Man's wife works for University Hospitals. Every now and than Lead Man gets roped into some sort of party, in this instance, a Christmas gathering. Filled with stuffy Doctors and their stuffier spouses looking people up and down and needing to be the coolest of the cool. Lead Man is at this cocktail gathering and every douche in the joint, which incidentally was everybody, is drinking some sort of martini - because that's alledgedly the "high brough" drink of the times. Server saunters over with the tray and ask what Lead Man wants, and he just says "look, I just wanna get some kind of beer" The waitress kind of gave LP that coy smile that said two things 1. "Thank God, it looks like there's finally someone who isn't a phony douche in the house and 2. Based almost exclusively on number 1, LP thinks (if he weren't already taken) he was a favorite to nail her.

Anyway, moral of the story. In this crowd, NO beer would have been considered "class" enough. But Lead Man employed two of his credos here, 1. He made his own choice and 2. He didn't give a F about what anyone else thought.

leadpipe wrote:Anyway, moral of the story. In this crowd, NO beer would have been considered "class" enough. But Lead Man employed two of his credos here, 1. He made his own choice and 2. He didn't give a F about what anyone else thought.

In selecting a beer, you should sdo the same.

Never did I say otherwise.

To go back to my example, I for one have a ton of movies that I really, really, like and do prefer to watch over a lot of movies people would say are better.

This is for a variety of reasons, I find them entertaining, maybe sentimental value based on WHEN I saw them, whatever. I just like em' and watch them again and again.

But I know they are crappy movies. Doesn't make a damn bit of difference to me.

Likewise I really like rolling rock for certain occasions, but I know DAMN well it isn't close to the best pale ales I've tried, not in the same class. But I like it so fuck you, you know?

Point being the purpose of the question wasn't to convince people to buy and drink what beer I like instead of what you like. Just that it was weird to me to talk to some around my own age who not only prefer a bud, miller, NATTY, whatever, but thought that these beers were actually better than some of the same style that I named to him, price be damned. This is a friend not a stranger at a cocktail party.

It aint a crime just a conversation. If everyone's end response was do what you do and fuck everyone else then there wouldn't be much point in discussing or comparing anything at all. You should, in the end, but it doesn't mean its worthless to BS about it.

Nothing wrong with drinking "shitty" beer. Perhaps the gent should be praised for not investing the little time and energy needed to become a snob on any level. He's keeping it real, really real. No time spent deciding and judging, more time spent sipping and laughing.

Also, the age thing is true. Beer was cheap and watery for a looong time. Some people are more than happy with that.

Nothing wrong with drinking "shitty" beer. Perhaps the gent should be praised for not investing the little time and energy needed to become a snob on any level. He's keeping it real, really real. No time spent deciding and judging, more time spent sipping and laughing.

Also, the age thing is true. Beer was cheap and watery for a looong time. Some people are more than happy with that.

Dude spent plenty of time judging. He brought up the convo by slamming me for the $$$ I spend on the stuff. His position was that I spent 2x as much to drink shittier beer than he did.

Nothing wrong with drinking "shitty" beer. Perhaps the gent should be praised for not investing the little time and energy needed to become a snob on any level. He's keeping it real, really real. No time spent deciding and judging, more time spent sipping and laughing.

Also, the age thing is true. Beer was cheap and watery for a looong time. Some people are more than happy with that.

Dude spent plenty of time judging. He brought up the convo by slamming me for the $$$ I spend on the stuff. His position was that I spent 2x as much to drink shittier beer than he did.

Don't get upset. It IS a good topic. Being a degenerate drinker, beer only serves me in two ways:

1. Quench a thrist2. Good with Pizza and wings

I have found that microbrews are not my style. The amount of work put into producing these types of beers are wasted on my palate. I walk through Heinen's grocery store and look at some of those exotic beers and wonder what is the difference between an $14/6-pack of "Gesundheit" Import or the $17/4-pack of "Snail Trail Amber Bock"....I settle on the $4.99/6-pack Coors Light.....

BUT, if I want to tie one on, then:

1. Smirnoff2. Maker's3. Black Velvet

I'm sure someone will turn their nose up on one of the above three, but again, it's all just an OPINION........and opinions are like;

leadpipe wrote:So the Lead Man's wife works for University Hospitals. Every now and than Lead Man gets roped into some sort of party, in this instance, a Christmas gathering. Filled with stuffy Doctors and their stuffier spouses looking people up and down and needing to be the coolest of the cool. Lead Man is at this cocktail gathering and every douche in the joint, which incidentally was everybody, is drinking some sort of martini - because that's alledgedly the "high brough" drink of the times. Server saunters over with the tray and ask what Lead Man wants, and he just says "look, I just wanna get some kind of beer" The waitress kind of gave LP that coy smile that said two things 1. "Thank God, it looks like there's finally someone who isn't a phony douche in the house and 2. Based almost exclusively on number 1, LP thinks (if he weren't already taken) he was a favorite to nail her.

Anyway, moral of the story. In this crowd, NO beer would have been considered "class" enough. But Lead Man employed two of his credos here, 1. He made his own choice and 2. He didn't give a F about what anyone else thought.

In selecting a beer, you should sdo the same.

This is a post of the year nominee.

I'm a Coors Light/Labatt Blue guy. I'll drink Bud Light/Miller Lite if I go somewhere and it's the draft special, or if I go to a party that isn't BYOB. In college, the beer of choice for beer pong was Keystone Light, and it was quite tolerable.

It depends on what you plan to achieve with your beer. If the goal is to get drunk, it takes a lot more Stones and Natties than it would Sam Adams, GLBC, or even Coors Light (IMO).

I'll say this. If I'm going to drink a cheaper beer, I'll drink a couple Coors or BLs before I start on Stones or Natty. It's just a taste thing for me. I think the slightly more expensive beers have a better taste. After a few, it doesn't really matter.

For me, if I have the choice between paying $9 for a 12 of Coors Light or $12 for a 30 pack of Natty, I still go with the Coors. Not economical, but it's what I prefer.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

leadpipe wrote:So the Lead Man's wife works for University Hospitals. Every now and than Lead Man gets roped into some sort of party, in this instance, a Christmas gathering. Filled with stuffy Doctors and their stuffier spouses looking people up and down and needing to be the coolest of the cool. Lead Man is at this cocktail gathering and every douche in the joint, which incidentally was everybody, is drinking some sort of martini - because that's alledgedly the "high brough" drink of the times. Server saunters over with the tray and ask what Lead Man wants, and he just says "look, I just wanna get some kind of beer" The waitress kind of gave LP that coy smile that said two things 1. "Thank God, it looks like there's finally someone who isn't a phony douche in the house and 2. Based almost exclusively on number 1, LP thinks (if he weren't already taken) he was a favorite to nail her.

Anyway, moral of the story. In this crowd, NO beer would have been considered "class" enough. But Lead Man employed two of his credos here, 1. He made his own choice and 2. He didn't give a F about what anyone else thought.

In selecting a beer, you should sdo the same.

This is a post of the year nominee.

I'm a Coors Light/Labatt Blue guy. I'll drink Bud Light/Miller Lite if I go somewhere and it's the draft special, or if I go to a party that isn't BYOB. In college, the beer of choice for beer pong was Keystone Light, and it was quite tolerable.

It depends on what you plan to achieve with your beer. If the goal is to get drunk, it takes a lot more Stones and Natties than it would Sam Adams, GLBC, or even Coors Light (IMO).

I'll say this. If I'm going to drink a cheaper beer, I'll drink a couple Coors or BLs before I start on Stones or Natty. It's just a taste thing for me. I think the slightly more expensive beers have a better taste. After a few, it doesn't really matter.

For me, if I have the choice between paying $9 for a 12 of Coors Light or $12 for a 30 pack of Natty, I still go with the Coors. Not economical, but it's what I prefer.

Yeah, in honesty, I should have distinguished between Natty, Beast, cobra .....which is not meant for human consumption past the age of whenever-fuck-you-can-afford-better-beer.........and average to at worst below average beer.

JCoz wrote:Yeah, in honesty, I should have distinguished between Natty, Beast, cobra .....which is not meant for human consumption past the age of whenever-fuck-you-can-afford-better-beer.........and average to at worst below average beer.

Well, it's a good topic, though. Personally, I won't drink Miller High Life. Got sick off it once, will never drink it again. Thanks to the advent of beer pong, I've had most of those cheap beers. I've had Busch, Natty, Beast, Stones, MHL, and basically whatever else you can think of. But if I lost, or we were between games, I went to the fridge in my room and got a Labatt or a Coors. I had a Rolling Rock phase for a bit.

I've drank Iron City Light at Mountaineer. I can't say I've ever had a PBR, many people tell me I'm missing out. Never had Blatz either. I've heard I'm not missing out there.

I think you just start drinking something and stick with it. I drink Labatt because I play hockey and that's what all my hockey buddies drank. Once I was old enough to go out with them, I drank what they drank. I adopted Coors for when bars have specials on domestics.

I would imagine that some people drink what their fathers/grandfathers drank. My grandpa loved Genesee. I've never had one. My dad doesn't drink. So, as I said above, I drink what my buddies drank. It almost becomes second nature. I'll walk in to the beer cave and genuinely look around, but I always walk out with the same stuff. Coors or Labatt.

For what it's worth, I suggest you try the Clevelander's own brew next time you go downtown for a game. It was $5 for a pitcher and it was worth the price.

A God Damn dead man would understand that if a minor league bus in any city took a real sharp right turn, a Zack McCalister would likely fall out. - Lead Pipe

Meh....it is all subjective. I'll eat burgers or chicken or pork chops or ribs if that's what you're cooking. I'll also eat the bone-in ribeye.

Depends where I am.

I've enjoyed Coors Light as much as I've enjoyed the shit I make myself. All depends on the people and the surroundings.

Someone (I believe it was my uncle) mentioned Yeungling. I will drive the 40 miles to Erie to make that my utlitarian beer if I have the opportunity. Otherwise, whatever is in the fridge is fine. I grew up on Blatz, OM, etc.

1. Coors Light2. GLB on tap or winery's micro-brew like Cellar Rat at Debonne'3. Yeungling (which includes their Black and Tan and their Chesterfield Ale)4. Micro special/Yeungling/Whatever the tap special may be.5. Cornerstone brewing porter or stout.

I was at a party at BG for a friend's frat. My friend and I were picking up the beer. Natty light was $10 less than BL. This is significant when you're getting 20 kegs. Some Ahole decided he was the brewmaster or something and INSISTED that it MUST be BL. It just tastes that much better. So, we got 20 kegs of Natty and had the distributor give us 20 of those plastic caps that cover the tap. The caps read Bud Light. Basically we got kegs of Natty with BL caps. Got them back and tapped the first one. The AHole gets a glass and drinks, raises his glass up in a toast and says "See fellas, that's where that extra $10 went."

So, as long as you aren't that dooshnozzle, drink what you like. I like some of the "better" stuff. My best friend pretty much sticks to Bud Light. When I'm boozin with him I usually do too.

That being said, there ARE good and bad beer, and it isn't just a matter of opinion. Great Lakes Commadore Perry IPA is better than Miller Lite. It just is. Doesn't mean you like it better. Doesn't make you a bad person if you prefer Miller Lite. I just can't tell you what the difference is.

No different than Wine, Art, Cars, Music, and any number of things. Smarter people than me can tell you which ones are better and why. But, "better" does exist beyond personal preferences.

skatingtripods wrote:Well, it's a good topic, though. Personally, I won't drink Miller High Life. Got sick off it once, will never drink it again. Thanks to the advent of beer pong, I've had most of those cheap beers. I've had Busch, Natty, Beast, Stones, MHL, and basically whatever else you can think of. But if I lost, or we were between games, I went to the fridge in my room and got a Labatt or a Coors. I had a Rolling Rock phase for a bit.

Funny you mention that, beer pong is what finally got me completely away from Bud and such...if that stuff sits for any considerable about of time (when everyone is drunk and is missing cups) it tastes so bad to me I could gag.

I'm spoiled here though. Besides knowing about 5 people who brew excellent beer, this is the store I have literally 1000 feet away from my house:

Erie Warrior wrote:Pussy. That stuff will make you a god damned sexual Tyrannosaurus, just like me.

So what you're saying is that your sex life is extinct?

Someone has never watched "Predator".

I digress. In terms of someone's taste, I think its purely a matter of what a person has been exposed to. I would make the argument that any dude out there who's favorites are Coors, Bud, and the like would change their tunes if they tried other mild lagers like Sierra Nevada Summerfest, Victory Prima Pils, and Hofbrau Original or their Marzen/Oktoberfest.

In terms of knowledgeable beer people rating those Big Brews as "good", the number is fairly small. Just go to Beeradvocate.com and see the rating for all the American Adjunct Lagers. In respect to your question, IMO its completely fair to say those beers are average or shitty compared to most equivalent craft brews.

"All Beckett needs to do to cap off this mess is order some fried chicken and beer" – 5/10/12 before Beckett got chased in the 3rd at Fenway.

I've jumped on the microbrew train hard ... but the traditional American lagers still have their place.

With regards to microbrews, bottom line is this - they taste better and you get drunk 3x as fast. There's something for everyone these days too. Great Lakes, Dogfish Head, and Bells. That's my trio ... has been for some time now. Three out of this world breweries that make world class and highly potent beers.

When I am out though ... have to drive, I almost always drink one of the American light beers. Maybe start off with one microbrew before going to the lights. And I really have no preference. Miller Lite, Coors Light, Bud Light ... it's all the same to me.

"It's like dating a woman who hates you so much she will never break up with you, even if you burn down the house every single autumn." ~ Chuck Klosterman on Browns fans relationship with the Browns

"Ale is for Barbarians." Yep heard that one. And Wild Turkey is for wife beaters and backwater folks who have run out of moonshine.

J/K CDT, to each his own. I actually love Red Breast and Wild Turkey made for one of the wildest nights I've ever had. When my buddy got back from Afghanistan (by way of Walter Reed cuz his APV got hit by an RPG or artillery, cant remember which) we polished off a bottle damn quick between the 2 of us. Not that I'll ever do THAT again, but it was well worth it and for a good cause.

"All Beckett needs to do to cap off this mess is order some fried chicken and beer" – 5/10/12 before Beckett got chased in the 3rd at Fenway.

swerb wrote:With regards to microbrews, bottom line is this - they taste better and you get drunk 3x as fast. There's something for everyone these days too. Great Lakes, Dogfish Head, and Bells. That's my trio ... has been for some time now. Three out of this world breweries that make world class and highly potent beers.

I agree on GLBC and Dogfish, have never really had Bells that I know of. If you ever get out this way or in these states http://odellbrewing.com/about/distribution you must find these beers. For me it is the only brewery that has as good of a line top to bottom as GLBC. I have a feeling you would like it. They just expanded so hopefully for you all they expand their distribution as well.

swerb wrote:I've jumped on the microbrew train hard ... but the traditional American lagers still have their place.

With regards to microbrews, bottom line is this - they taste better and you get drunk 3x as fast. There's something for everyone these days too. Great Lakes, Dogfish Head, and Bells. That's my trio ... has been for some time now. Three out of this world breweries that make world class and highly potent beers.

When I am out though ... have to drive, I almost always drink one of the American light beers. Maybe start off with one microbrew before going to the lights. And I really have no preference. Miller Lite, Coors Light, Bud Light ... it's all the same to me.

Hey, if you gotta drive, 60-minute is there for you when you need it, lol.

Also big into DFH (I go their MD brewery 3 times a month probably), but my store has hundreds of other I like to try out.

JCoz wrote:Hey, if you gotta drive, 60-minute is there for you when you need it, lol.

Also big into DFH (I go their MD brewery 3 times a month probably), but my store has hundreds of other I like to try out.

Have you tried that "B#$ches Brew"? I have heard great things, but I haven't seen it anywhere here in northeast Ohio.

I had plans to run over and grab a growler of it but I haven't been able to yet.

My brothers are coming in town for the Miami game though so I will have some by Friday next week.

It sounds like you live near the MD area so you must have Hook and Ladder brews available yes? Their Backdraught Brown is top 3 in all English Brown Ales I've tried. DFH's is damn good as well as Smuttynose Old Brown and Avery Ellie's.

"All Beckett needs to do to cap off this mess is order some fried chicken and beer" – 5/10/12 before Beckett got chased in the 3rd at Fenway.

JCoz wrote:Hey, if you gotta drive, 60-minute is there for you when you need it, lol.

Also big into DFH (I go their MD brewery 3 times a month probably), but my store has hundreds of other I like to try out.

Have you tried that "B#$ches Brew"? I have heard great things, but I haven't seen it anywhere here in northeast Ohio.

I had plans to run over and grab a growler of it but I haven't been able to yet.

My brothers are coming in town for the Miami game though so I will have some by Friday next week.

It sounds like you live near the MD area so you must have Hook and Ladder brews available yes? Their Backdraught Brown is top 3 in all English Brown Ales I've tried. DFH's is damn good as well as Smuttynose Old Brown and Avery Ellie's.

Are you ever in the MD area?

Probably my favorite restaurant and brewery here is Duclaw. Nothing extreme in terms of alcohol content but several really good offering and the menu is excellent.

JCoz wrote:Hey, if you gotta drive, 60-minute is there for you when you need it, lol.

Also big into DFH (I go their MD brewery 3 times a month probably), but my store has hundreds of other I like to try out.

Have you tried that "B#$ches Brew"? I have heard great things, but I haven't seen it anywhere here in northeast Ohio.

I had plans to run over and grab a growler of it but I haven't been able to yet.

My brothers are coming in town for the Miami game though so I will have some by Friday next week.

It sounds like you live near the MD area so you must have Hook and Ladder brews available yes? Their Backdraught Brown is top 3 in all English Brown Ales I've tried. DFH's is damn good as well as Smuttynose Old Brown and Avery Ellie's.