Buying a PC from any large manufacturer/retailer without a copy of Windows pre-installed is difficult. You have some companies that refuse to sell a machine if you want Windows removed, then there are others that will remove it and reduce the price. Dell offers certain confirgurations without Windows installed, but it’s not clear from the website, and has to be requested either offline or over Live Chat.

Harish Pillay found this out by actually trying to buy a Dell laptop with Ubuntu installed. He had actually done this before, purchasing a Dell Vostro V13-N series laptop with Ubuntu. However, this time the N-series was nowhere to be seen and a Live Chat was required to get a Windows-less laptop.

What follows is a transcript of the chat he had with a Dell representative in case you ever want to do the same. What’s interesting to note here is the difference in price including Windows makes. Without Microsoft’s operating system the final laptop price is $887.15. With Windows that balloons up to $1,045.79.

And why do Dell not advertise Windows-less laptops? It seems this is simply a case os stopping customer confusion as many visitors to the Dell website search for the cheapest laptop. That will always end up being one without Windows installed, but the user doesn’t realize the cheap laptop they selected has no operating system.

16:36:01 Dell Rep Welcome to Dell Sales Chat. My name is Dell Rep. I’ll be your personal sales agent. How may I assist you. If you proceed to place your order online, please indicate my name, Dell Rep, as your sales representative so that I’ll be able to track your order for you.

16:36:22 harish pillay Hi, Dell Rep. Can you point me to where I can get the n-series vostro v13?

16:46:19 harish pillay is there a price difference if the quote was for corporate vs consumer?

16:47:02 Dell Rep there’s no difference unless your company has a specific contract with Dell

16:47:40 harish pillay fair enough. give me the consumer quote first.

16:48:32 Dell Rep can i have your full legal name, address as well as your contact no

16:49:04 harish pillay . harish pillay, address

16:50:27 Dell Rep alright, let me work the quotation and emailed it to you?

16:50:40 harish pillay ok. h.pillay@ieee.org

16:50:47 Dell Rep noted

16:52:22 harish pillay so are we done or what?

16:52:42 Dell Rep unless you’ve others to add.

16:53:04 harish pillay so the quote will be without windows?

16:53:12 Dell Rep yes

16:55:26 harish pillay that’s fine. can you provide me with the quote that shows with and without windows?

16:55:37 harish pillay i want to know the difference.

16:55:42 Dell Rep alright

16:55:46 harish pillay not that i want windows.

16:56:50 harish pillay are you mailing the quote now?

16:57:17 Dell Rep give me about 5 mins and i shall be able to send it to you

16:57:56 harish pillay ok thanks. i will be keeping this chat transcript and blanking out your name.

16:58:12 Dell Rep thanks

16:58:57 harish pillay the reason for keeping the chat transcript is so that I can post this to my blog stating that there is a way to buy non-windows Dell machines but one has to ask for it.

16:59:26 harish pillay so, keeping your name off the transcript is key as it is not you but your organization that is at fault here.

16:59:32 Dell Rep we do have regular request for n-series of system from time by time

17:00:20 Dell Rep we do not offer is sometimes to avoid misunderstanding from certain customers where they look for the cheapest system and only to find out that no OS was installed

17:00:33 harish pillay and I want to make it a permanent request and something that I can find from your online catalog. As long as it does not appear, I think Dell is doing the whole world a disservice and pandering to Microsoft’s monopolistic heavyhand.

17:00:33 Dell Rep we had that quite a lot previously

17:00:56 Dell Rep that’s the reason we choose to offer all with the OS preinstalled

17:01:00 harish pillay and if you explain to people, they will understand.

17:01:26 Dell Rep not all customer are as understanding as you

17:01:39 harish pillay so long as dell hides the info (or makes it hard to find), these misunderstandings can happen.

17:02:07 Dell Rep we have lots of customer who choose the cheapest and only to find out that no OS is installed

17:02:57 Dell Rep we don’t really hide the info as long as a customer request for it, we’ll be able to offer

17:03:22 Dell Rep we just limit them options online to avoid misunderstanding

17:03:37 Dell Rep anyway perhaps we may work out something in future

17:17:37 Dell Rep i’ve just emailed both quotation to you. could you please check and revert

17:23:28 Dell Rep Is there anything else I may assist you? If there’s no further assistance required, you may email me at DELL REP @dell.com shall you need further assistance / clarifications.

Reader Comments

http://madmod.com Dave Mawdsley

I imagine that Dell Corp. sees its customers as non-techies and wants their computers from Dell to work completely in the environment the user chooses. (also non-technical) I also imagine that Dell is trying hard to minimize service calls and returns. A total unknown risk with Linux.

Further I imagine that Dell has Windows driver requirements from its vendors that insure that everything works when assembled in a laptop or tower computer. Not possible with Linux.

It’s all about: minimize costs, maximize revenues. Using the 80/20 rule, it’s obvious why Dell features Windows computers and tries to ignore non-Windows. I wish it weren’t so but it is.

I’ve bought two computers from Dell both now successfully running Ubuntu 10.04, but both required a complete reinstall by me to get all the storage and features running. (The Dell install with earlier Ubuntu versions were awful.) Non-techies wouldn’t even try that…and then they’d give Dell the grief of support calls and angry returns.

Perhaps the better solution is to go with System76 or ZaReason and skip Dell for now. (My wife has a great ZaReason computer running Ubuntu 10.04.)

jqp

I imagine that Dell Corp. sees its customers as non-techies …

I imagine that Dell sees them this way because that is the way they are.

The techies attempting to buy from Dell probably have a poor understanding of business and economics and fail to grasp why it is not advantageous for Dell to support Linux.

Bottom line: If you really want a Linux system, buy it from someone who really wants to support Linux. Obviously, this does not include Dell.

cement_head

Hi,

Dell has a point here. Most people would buy the cheapest system and then try to install their own O/S (maybe a broken copy) and then complain back to Dell and demand their money back. Dell would be trashed in the press and then they would lose significant sales.

What Dell should do, is to make a clear section of their website and offer three classes of machines. Ones with Ubuntu pre-installed (for regular consumers); ones with a Linux compatible recommendation (with or without W7) and a category or “untested” and “not recommended” hardware for Linux (with W7) installed [no non-W7/non-M$ option in this last category; and no price break].

This would let savy users, and Linux-heads choose their hardware. The better alternative is to buy from a company that sells Linux and is committed, Like Sytem76, or ZaReason.

– CH

JMY

Harish, calm down when talking to the reps. You come across like jerk customer. I admire the professionalism of that Dell Rep.

CN

Trying to get a Dell which isn’t a server without a microsoft pre-installed is quite impossible in sweden, even we who buy quite a lot of servers and have our own license deal with microsoft, it’s impossible to get a laptop without OS or FreeDos/Linux pre-installed.

After the initial Linux-Notebooks, there hasn’t been much you can find locally which hasn’t microsoft pre-installed, if you want something microsoft free you need to choose some much more expensive machines from some smaller manufacturers, which sometimes may have some less known hardware.

wm

Nice to see the professionalism of the Dell Rep. Can’t say that about the purchaser though…

bjr

There’s a simple way for Dell to handle, use a different website for Linux systems. They all ready own delllinux.com, if type that in it gets you to there regular website.

It’s understandable that they want to avoid accidentally selling no-OS or Linux systems to the clueless but that can be easily handled by segregating those systems on a separate website. Anyone who goes to delllinux.com would be definition be someone who knows what they want.

Drivers should be a non-issue at this point. The only thing that’s been a problem is WiFI. Intel and Atheros have always had kernel drivers, Broadcom has finally relented and they will have drivers in the kernel as of .37. Ralink has an excellent Linux driver for their WiFI chips which they haven’t bothered to put into the kernel, if Dell were to tell them that they need to put the drivers into the kernel they would certainly do it.

Why did Harish Pillay need to be such an ass? The sales rep was helpful and showed great patience. But Harish clearly has an attitude and thinks it’s OK to talk down to people. So not only does he completely lack social skills but he’s clueless on why a fortune 100 company doesn’t openly market linux based systems. If that market segment represented any sort of significant revenue, Dell and others would do it in a heartbeat. But this Harish character doesn’t even know how to be polite/civil, so how could we expect him to have common sense.

Note: The Ubuntu version on the laptop is a little bit dated (karmic 9.10) so I would not recommend this for first time Ubuntu users, however very suitable for folks comfortable with doing their own upgrades to Lucid and Maverick.
The Ubuntu version on the Studio XPS desktop is LTS and benefits from 27 months of security updates with no configuration changes required.

erm

Well, I have an Inspiron 1520 and it came with Windows Vista, the computer was cheaper than buying one of those Ubuntu editions and besides I got an original Windows license!

Anyway, I installed Ubuntu and it works perfectly, so I don’t get all those comments about “well, you could buy one with the old version and then upgrade” etc.

Buy a cheap one with Windows, that way you’ll get Windows and then install Linux if you want, for it is free, and if you’ve noticed many Ubuntu computers are just overpriced, when supposedly one should be saving money.

Go to system76 and discover it for yourself. Also DELL Ubuntu systems, at least in Spain…

I know this option is not suitable for Linux fanatics as they refuse to pay the “tax” for having a working computer and so on but whatever.

naveen

I wish we could buy a system without windows in india. Dell or other companies don’t give choice of os.

Wow. That customer was a huge jerk to the Dell rep. He wasn’t trying to be difficult, but was actually very helpful and “Harish Pillay” climbed up on a soapbox to try belittle this guy. Every question the Dell rep asked had meaning and Harish was looking for an excuse to tear shreds out of him. Way to walk into the situation with a non-biased and open opinion. I’d be ashamed to publicise a chat log where I acted in such a rude manner.

Dennis S.

Funny how same chat log can read differently. I do not see what the customer is doing wrong. He specifies his requirements, ask counter questions when asked a irrelevant question about personal/company, which in my opinion will disqualify Dell in the first place.

Derek

I don’t know what log Dennis is reading, but Harrish was totally a jerk. Speaking as a tech rep myself, this is the exact kind of customer I hate to get. I mean, what about “not that you support windoze drivers anyway” doesn’t sound like a jerk, for instance? The rep was simply trying to point out that Linux has driver issues with some hardware, which is very, very true. I know Linux fanboys will claim otherwise, but the fact is that driver issues with a Linux install on a random computer are quite common. I’ve never installed Linux without having to work out some driver issues, sometimes eventually having to use different hardware.

I love the Ubuntu box I built for myself, but getting everything to work as intended was not for the faint of heart (even though I researched compatible hardware components ahead of time, for crying out loud). This is important in case Harrish was a starry-eyed noob whose Linux-loving friends told him “Just get Linux!” even though he may not be savvy himself. How would the rep know? And yet, Harrish feels he needs to smart off about “windoze” and spew anti-corporate venom. The Dell rep was professional, regardless of how Linux-friendly Dell may be, but Harrish was not. Besides, if Harrish hates Dell so much for being a big, Windows-loving corporation, why is he buying a Dell?

phil

The Dell guy was very professional and polite, but I would never deal with Dell. Why not support some company who actually advertizes Linux such as System76 or Zareason? Still, I’ve never bought a new computer in my life and have no plans of doing so. Not when you can pick a computer out of the dumpster that will fly with Linux in it. As for the driver issue, I’ve always been able to install Linux in every computer I’ve ran across. Laptops tend to be more troublesome than desktops, and I would imagine Ubuntu auto detects things better than Arch and Debian testing.

troll_spotter

for those who haven’t figured it yet, the dim wit that keeps making comments about the interaction with dell rep is simply a pro microsoft troll.

Same guy, posting under several names. Whole point is to distract you from the subject.

Dell do support Ubuntu, only there are financial incentives provided by proprietary sponsors that pay to ensure the ‘dell recommends’ nonsense.

Every computer buyer deserves the right to choose their own operating system, so follow whoever advice helps you best towards that goal.

Sams

I love Linux, but the customer needs to take a basic course in how to be civil human being.

CSD

I just tried to order a Vostro V130 N-Series from Dell with no operating system or with Ubuntu/FreeDos and was told by two chat reps, a phone sales rep, and a phone customer service rep that I could not buy one with the i3 or i5 processor. When I asked about getting a refund by refusing the EULA for Microsoft Windows, I was told by all that that was not possible. From what I understand, it states in the EULA agreement that if one does not accept the terms, one is entitled to a refund of the OS cost from the manufacturer. Very frustrating that the only option is to unwillingly support Microsoft and pay more that I should have to pay or buy a hardware version that has a much slower processor but comes with Ubuntu.

Symbiatch

Yes, the purchaser was very unprofessional and rude. If they handle all things this way, I can’t see them getting any good service.

Sales rep asks for specifications (you know, there are several things you can customize) and HP goes on about using it with Linux. So HP doesn’t care what the laptop will contain, as long as there’s Linux? Oookay. And then HP even babbles about network cards in the midst of another thing. Way to go.

I’ve always gotten my machines without any OS and I could’ve ordered them directly online. But why would I when I can talk things through with a nice sales rep via email/phone and they’ll give me a nice quote about the system? So I get good service, a good machine and a discount. Can’t ask for more.

But hey, it’s nice that HP shows publicly his lack of communication skills and considers everyone to be out to get him since THEY USE LINUX. Did you hear me I USE LINUX! LINUX! It’s the most important thing, I don’t care about the machine itself, I JUST WANT YOU TO KNOW I USE LINUX!

Leslie Usrey

I have a dilemna that I need to ask about. I want to buy a laptop but I had prviously bought a windows 7 program for my current system but decided that I am going to go ahead a buy a laptop. Now I am out the money for windows 7 if I buy laptop with windows 7 installed? what now? don’t know if I want to go thru the hassle of above!

Leslie Usrey

I have a dilemna that I need to ask about. I want to buy a laptop but I had prviously bought a windows 7 program for my current system but decided that I am going to go ahead a buy a laptop. Now I am out the money for windows 7 if I buy laptop with windows 7 installed? what now? don’t know if I want to go thru the hassle of above!

http://gathman.org/vitae CustomDesigned

I remember a news story where some (figuratively) blonde college student bought a Dell Ubuntu laptop, then discovered it wouldn’t run some Windows only app required by one of her courses. Instead of getting mad at the professor or college (or kicking herself for not checking her course requirements more carefully), she sued Dell.

After that, Dell started hiding the linux laptops to prevent a repeat. I can’t blame them – a lawsuit is hideously expensive both in lawyers and in bad publicity. Servers with no OS are still easily available online, however. I guess people buying a server tend to have a few more clues.

http://gathman.org/vitae CustomDesigned

If you bought windows 7 Pro, the EULA allows running in a virtual machine. This makes the license valuable to people who run Windows in a virtual machine (this includes Windows users with the Microsoft VM software as well as Mac and Linux users).

SlightlyShifted

I have to agree with those below: he’s very rude and condescending. Referring to ‘windoze’ is juvenile. The rep was helpful and straightforward, Pillay was abrasive. This is the exact sort of behavior that gives computer geeks, and the open-source movement, as well, bad names. He seems to be trying to act elitist for no good reason. He can pretend to be better than the brand, but in the end, he’s still trying to buy a Dell, so who’s really winning here?

EinsteinyMouse

It doesn’t matter if “Dell” is disqualified. He’s not talking to “Dell”. He’s talking to some poor customer service rep that has to play by Dell’s rules. Trust me, that rep has more burning hatred for Dell than any sarcastic columnist ever will. There is never a good call to take out frustrations with a company on a front-end employee.