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lack of working capital, lack of easy loans with govt backing and lack of speedy commercially paid work.they must get commercial work or else function as a govt run yard. its chicken egg problem - they are small in size and cannot compete with the speed and scale of the far east shipyards.

in contrast air india continues to fly high on our tax payer annual bailouts.

Both Pipavav (private) and Alcock (State Govt) didnt get institutional support from Indian Navy. Design help from DND would have greatly helped them. Instead they were treated as a vendor.

L&T has invested heavily and built up a strong bench strength of architects. They recruit a lot of ex Naval engineers and this has enabled them to successfully deliver.

MDL, GRSE, GSL, CSL, HSL and L&T recruit a lot of ex-naval engineers and ex-MoD IAS officers. Most of these ex-Rear Admirals/Commodores/Captains/Commanders are able to either influence their juniors occupying their former positions or atleast get insight into what the Navy wants. This enables them to avoid change requests and quicker acceptance.

The older shipyards are also able to politically stall IN support to the newer shipyards.

I know for a fact that MDL from Managing Director to Worker's Union actively trying to sabotage L&T & Pipavav. L&T is too well entrenched and builds nuclear submarine hulls that MDL doesnt have technology, so are insulated. Pipavav isnt and hence suffers. All the other yards are suffering as well.

tsarkar wrote:Both Pipavav (private) and Alcock (State Govt) didnt get institutional support from Indian Navy. Design help from DND would have greatly helped them. Instead they were treated as a vendor.

L&T has invested heavily and built up a strong bench strength of architects. They recruit a lot of ex Naval engineers and this has enabled them to successfully deliver.

MDL, GRSE, GSL, CSL, HSL and L&T recruit a lot of ex-naval engineers and ex-MoD IAS officers. Most of these ex-Rear Admirals/Commodores/Captains/Commanders are able to either influence their juniors occupying their former positions or atleast get insight into what the Navy wants. This enables them to avoid change requests and quicker acceptance.

The older shipyards are also able to politically stall IN support to the newer shipyards.

I know for a fact that MDL from Managing Director to Worker's Union actively trying to sabotage L&T & Pipavav. L&T is too well entrenched and builds nuclear submarine hulls that MDL doesnt have technology, so are insulated. Pipavav isnt and hence suffers. All the other yards are suffering as well.

That is horrible, Tsarkar ji. And I worry for L&T if that is the case. They are safe currently with the nuclear subs but now they seem vulnerable too if the DPSU docks like MDL and their connections are out for them. A single misstep seems threatening now.

Sometimes, for a Rakshak’s peace of mind, it is better not to know this stuff.

^^ We Indians are a very myopic and insecure people and whether services, R&D or Industry, job security and benefits underlie decisions rather than the greater good for the nation. Occasionally we get a APJ Abdul Kalam or a Sunderji or Maneckshaw but overall myopia remains. Indeed sad and depressing. Happens across all sectors. I can give examples in Automobile, Banking, Airline & IT sectors. Like all airlines ganging up to prevent Air Asia from setting up Air Asia India.

Gagan wrote:These two ships are fitting out and are scheduled to be commissioned this year, rest by 2020.The latest news is that Chota Bhai has resigned as the head of this company - so maybe another round of delays

Yeah, the last I read when the first two ships were floated, that the remaining ones would be floated this year.Also the first two were promised delivery by mid this year. Nothing happened.

The company has a large NPA as well. When they have orders they cannot deliver. Just L&T doing good does not help, as MoD will never get in to single vendor situation.

GoI should alteast share some of our ship designs with L&T, so that they can try for export orders. PSU shipyard should be asked to sub-contractor some parts from private shipyard.

The whole mess is killing our only hope of speeding up ship building.

PSU shipyards are playing dirty. I read that they are quoting ridiculous rates(about 120% of the cost of material and private ones quoting at 170% of cost of material) for building Navy ships which cannot be done by a private yeard. These PSU's do not worry about profit or loss. They know that the govt will provide them money if they make a loss.

So government should bring in a level playing field before they can dream of a private ship yard building a capital ship for Indian Navy.

rajsunder wrote:PSU shipyards are playing dirty. I read that they are quoting ridiculous rates(about 120% of the cost of material and private ones quoting at 170% of cost of material) for building Navy ships which cannot be done by a private yeard. These PSU's do not worry about profit or loss. They know that the govt will provide them money if they make a loss.

So government should bring in a level playing field before they can dream of a private ship yard building a capital ship for Indian Navy.

Ofcourse they are playing dirty. They will quote zero for building a destroyer, if that was allowed.

If the client is my underwriter of my risk... Even i will do it for free.

rajsunder wrote:PSU shipyards are playing dirty. I read that they are quoting ridiculous rates(about 120% of the cost of material and private ones quoting at 170% of cost of material) for building Navy ships which cannot be done by a private yeard. These PSU's do not worry about profit or loss. They know that the govt will provide them money if they make a loss.

So government should bring in a level playing field before they can dream of a private ship yard building a capital ship for Indian Navy.

Ofcourse they are playing dirty. They will quote zero for building a destroyer, if that was allowed.

If the client is my underwriter of my risk... Even i will do it for free.

Why would GoI bring a level playing field?

Because In deserves better, if japan can do a build of 1 ton of displacement with about 70-80 an hours, we should not take 10 times that amount of man hours to do the same work. If we have to cut it down and bring it to the level of japaneese ship building, we need private shipyards.

INS Satpura to rescue navy officer Abhilash Tomy who is severely injured and is battling waves on a boat on the high seas in southern Indian Ocean.excerpted

His yacht was caught in extremely rough weather. He sent a distress signal on Friday evening conveying that the mast of his yacht had broken. He said that he had suffered a severe back injury and couldn't get up. He is approximately 1,900 nautical miles away from Perth in Australia.

"We will find your man". Rear Admiral Jonathan Mead, Commander, Australian Fleet, sent this message out some hours ago to his NDC batchmates from 2007. Absolutely heartening words reflecting the spirit of camaraderie uniting navies across the seas. @indiannavy @AusHCIndia

Absolutely heartening news. @indiannavy P-8I tail number 323 flying out of Mauritius has made contact with Cdr #AbhilashTomy. He has responded by activating his EPIRB - Emergency Position Indicating Radio Beacon-- which can be turned on manually.

Update 1 hr ago

Sandeep‏ @SandeepUnnithan1h1 hour ago

Aircraft has made ‘visual’ contact with #AbhilashTomy. More info when P8-I lands in Mauritius.

As INS Saputara races the odds to rescue @abhilashtomy a silent prayer for the Captain of the frigate who's father breathed his last today. The ship cannot be turned back, the Captain cannot be picked...there is a life to be saved @indiannavy @ShivAroor @nitingokhale

these roaring forties and furious fifties have very tall seas and high winds in IOR - use for 100s of years by sailboats looking to move faster.clipper ship route from london to australia and back. winds blow west->east so they took the chile route back to london...the dreaded waters and icy storms of cape horn.

our p8 must have flown south east from mauritius at the extreme of its endurance to locate.

The agreement, which will allow India to procure from Russia four new warships for the Navy, will be signed during a summit between President Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the Capital in October. Efforts are on to add the finishing touches to the contours of the deal.

The long-pending deal, to procure Project 11356 or advanced Talwar-class frigates, will involve building two of the ships at the Goa Shipyard, while the rest will be bought directly from Russia’s Yantar shipyard.

NEW DELHI: An Indian Navy officer who was stranded in the Indian Ocean near Australia after being injured while taking part in a sailing race will be rescued within the next 16 hours by a French vessel, the Defence Ministry said on Sunday.

--the french do have a scientific outpost there in kerguelen islands which they conveniently grabbed.

pankajs wrote:https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/defence/india-clears-way-for-2-2-billion-frigates-deal-with-russia/articleshow/65835654.cmsIndia clears way for $2.2-billion frigates deal with Russia

The agreement, which will allow India to procure from Russia four new warships for the Navy, will be signed during a summit between President Vladimir Putin and Prime Minister Narendra Modi in the Capital in October. Efforts are on to add the finishing touches to the contours of the deal.

The long-pending deal, to procure Project 11356 or advanced Talwar-class frigates, will involve building two of the ships at the Goa Shipyard, while the rest will be bought directly from Russia’s Yantar shipyard.

Order of 4 is a break away from traditional 3. Is it only for 2+2 or in future also we can expect to see batch size of 4 in general.

Abhilash Tomy rescued by French Fisheries Patrol Vessel Osiris that is now proceeding to rescue Irishman Gregor MaGuckin. Special effort by P8I 323 that flew from Arakonnam staging via Mauritius to Abhilash's location.

per reports Cmdr Tomy is trapped in his bunk by bed injury either fulltime or partially. the Osiris ship sent over a small boat with aid. they might tow him 180km to amsterdam island where a french scientific station has a doctor, and from there INS satpura will take to mauritius for medical aid.

the australian frigate might return to perth.

this was a good gesture by the french and aussies. big powers take care of their own no matter 1 or 1000, and other powers respect that mutually.

tsarkar wrote:It was Seychelles Lobster Vessel impounded by the French for illegally fishing in its Indian Ocean territories. Island grabbing is an important activity to get EEZ for fishing and petroleum drilling.

Noted, Sir

tsarkar wrote:And Panditji the great gave away Cocos Island to Burma

Is there a full list, of all that he gave away (Indian territory/resources), available anywhere ?

Pratyush wrote:Simple, it is an Indian design. So the upgrade path is relatively clear for the ship. All the ships built in Indian yard, with Indian materials will result in most or the spend in India.

But with this deal 2 ships are ready made and 2 will be Indian made. Best case only 50 %of the expenditure will be in India for this deal.

If the imported ship has the be upgraded. We have to go the Russians hat in hand and pay through our nose for it.

The worst part is that no IP is owned by us.

And keep in mind Talwar is dated design, Shivalik which in many ways a decade ahead of Talwar in terms of design features (mast, superstructure, propulsion etc) was rejected in favor of P-17A and as being too expensive. I have bad feeling about this venture, Goa has no experience building anything this big and this design has not been exported. I would not be surprised if all said and done after delays and issues this ends up costing more than P-15Bs.