Now I've seen everything.....rapper Common is now under attack by Fox News and the Right Wing for being invited to the White House. They are digging up any old lyrics of his that talk about violence, and link it to the Obama family favoring violence in America. What a joke!! Anyone with the slightest clue about hip-hop, knows that Common is the furthest person in the world who promotes violence in his music. He's the anti-gangsta rapper.....just shows how stupid and clueless Fox News really is.

alloak41, the rap that is the mainstream media is god awful. I agree with you that it is hate-spewing garbage.

I'm not trying to convice anyone to enjoy the music, but there is a huge underground hip-hop scene that doesn't rap about violence and crime. Common is one of these guys who stays away from any gangster issues. He's a good guy. Whether you like hip-hop or hate it, it's foolish to target the one guy in hip-hop who raps about positive things.

I don't like rap in the least and I never listen to it, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that rap is most definitely poetry. The rhymes in rap are incredible and I would challenge anyone who doesn't think it's poetry or who thinks it's easy to write to try it. I'll wait.

____________________Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!

quote:I don't like rap in the least and I never listen to it, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that rap is most definitely poetry. The rhymes in rap are incredible and I would challenge anyone who doesn't think it's poetry or who thinks it's easy to write to try it. I'll wait.

Common is clean-cut, well-spoken man with a bit of education from a respected mainstream university who was raised by two successful professional parents (though divorced). He's no thug or gangster by any stretch.

Of course rap is poetry. There are no fixed definitions of what poetry is or what it is not. If a haiku, sonnet, epic poem, nursery rhyme, lyrical ballad, Dylan song or Morrison musing can be called poetry, then so too can a rap song.

It might not speak to you, but "I got them low down blues with the holes in my shoes" might not speak to someone else.

Most forms of artistic expression have a target audience, and from what I can see, rap is doing quite well among the people for whom it is intended. Of course, as in any art or entertainment product, you'll have lots of crap, lots of middlin' stuff, a lot of solid work, and some masterpieces. Not all great music must be played by long-haired guys slinging Gibsons.

Mainstream media tends to present hip hop and rap via their basest elements. This is completely unfair. I'm sure we have all seen blues and rock and roll acts that were terrible, heard songs with stupid lyrics, have heard lyrics that debase women, glorify violence and drug use, etc., but we're reasonable enough to understand that that's not what the blues "is," that's not what rock and roll "is."

"I feel like slapping my pistol in your face, I'm gonna let some graveyard [baby] be your resting place" has got to be one of the most offensive lyrics I've ever heard, but I'm sure many of us here have cheered on an artist who has performed a song containing it. We accept that, we rationalize it, "it's gritty, it's real, it's about the pain of a tormented soul . . ." What do you think the rap lyricists are doing?

I am entertained by Gregg Allman's creative work, so I will continue to be one of his patrons. His opinion on anything beyond his creative work holds little value for me.

quote:Of course rap is poetry. There are no fixed definitions of what poetry is or what it is not. If a haiku, sonnet, epic poem, nursery rhyme, lyrical ballad, Dylan song or Morrison musing can be called poetry, then so too can a rap song.

I'm not a big fan of modern day rap (especially anything that promotes violence or disrespects a social group ... like women) but I would classify it as a form of poetry and by measure, an art form. Droogie mentioned Dylan which immediately brought to my mind Subterranean Homesick Blues. Which I've thought of as a sort of precursor to what ended up evolving to the music form that grew to be known as 'rap'. (Johnny's in the basement, mixing up the medicine ... I'm on the pavement, thinking about the government ... )

____________________"Come on down to the Mermaid Cafe and I will buy you a bottle of wine, and we'll laugh and toast to nothing and smash our empty glasses down..."

quote:I don't like rap in the least and I never listen to it, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that rap is most definitely poetry. The rhymes in rap are incredible and I would challenge anyone who doesn't think it's poetry or who thinks it's easy to write to try it. I'll wait.

I actually, tend to agree with Ann here.

Of course Ann is right, and there's no argument to the contrary. The only argument, as AO is so deftly illustrating, is that if you don't approve of the content, then it's not worthy of being labeled as art or poetry. News flash, rap isn't really for aging white guys. That you or Gregg Allman or the Fox News clowns don't "get it" should surprise exactly no one.

I laughed. You do know it's a song right? There's no need to take every lyric literally.

quote:Common is clean-cut, well-spoken man with a bit of education from a respected mainstream university who was raised by two successful professional parents (though divorced). He's no thug or gangster by any stretch.

Damn right he's not.

quote:Most forms of artistic expression have a target audience, and from what I can see, rap is doing quite well among the people for whom it is intended. Of course, as in any art or entertainment product, you'll have lots of crap, lots of middlin' stuff, a lot of solid work, and some masterpieces. Not all great music must be played by long-haired guys slinging Gibsons.

Inconceivable! But, yeah, thanks TD for stating what should be obvious to anyone with the slightest understanding of music and art in the most direct and persuasive way possible.

I tended to think of the early rappers as ghetto poets. If you listen to their words they''re telling it like they're living it and it's an insight to a lifestyle I dare say none of us know anything about. Just like any form of honest music, it's attracted posers who write shocking lyrics just to try to 'make it' but there are several rappers who are 'telling it real.'..so to speak. It doesn't mean I like it any better or listen to it, but I recognize where it came from and I can appreciate the manner in which they rhyme the words....that takes talent any way you look at it.

____________________Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!

Also, rap is lyrically-based, and ego and boasting are not just rhetorical devices but fundamental elements of the art form. Maybe it's distasteful if you choose to take every line literally, but the reason that even the most aggressive, misogynist, violent rappers (50 Cent) are still free to practice their trades is because they don't actually kill people or beat women or sell drugs. What they do very well is promote themselves. 50 Cent is a billionaire (and that's no exaggeration, thanks to an incredibly savvy investment in Vitamin Water) because he wrote rhymes that built him up into a gangster superhero figure of sorts, then he leveraged that character into making huge amounts of money. It's the American dream. Donald Trump does it and you guys worship him, right?

Everyone laughed and mocked the court cases when Judas Priest, AC/DC and Ozzy Osbourne were cited as influences on people to commit suicide and murder. Rap and hip-hop don't get that same benefit of the doubt.

Check out the episode of the "Daily show" w/Albert Brooks. It was on here in Ca. last night, anyway...there is a segment devoted to this is issue and not only very funny but spot on. Not only does Stewart make Sean Hannitty look like a complete a**hole...( He shows Hannitty saying that he would defend Barrack Obama to the death if anyone spoke of killing or shooting him, then shows a clip of Ted Nugent on stage making threats to The President with a gun he is holding in his hands...followed by Hannitty defending Nugent.."He is my friend"...he said)

Stewart then goes on to show some lyrics that were pretty foul concerning murder and such only to find out they were written by Johnny Cash.....

Pretty interesting commentary...

Me?...I look at Rap like this. I have yet to meet a human being who lacks the ability to rhyme....It's just not that difficult.

quote:Me?...I look at Rap like this. I have yet to meet a human being who lacks the ability to rhyme....It's just not that difficult.

Except rap isn't just rhyming, of course. Nor is it easy in any way. I'd ask you to back up your claims and write some killer rhymes for us. But I doubt anyone really wants to see that, and I doubt you'd be willing to publicly embarrass yourself by trying to back up your silly claim.

quote:Me?...I look at Rap like this. I have yet to meet a human being who lacks the ability to rhyme....It's just not that difficult.

Except rap isn't just rhyming, of course. Nor is it easy in any way. I'd ask you to back up your claims and write some killer rhymes for us. But I doubt anyone really wants to see that, and I doubt you'd be willing to publicly embarrass yourself by trying to back up your silly claim.

Silly claim or not, it's how I see rap. Or maybe a more tactful way of saying "I think this medium blows"...Sorry I had to explain that to you.

quote:Check out the episode of the "Daily show" w/Albert Brooks. It was on here in Ca. last night, anyway...there is a segment devoted to this is issue and not only very funny but spot on. Not only does Stewart make Sean Hannitty look like a complete a**hole...( He shows Hannitty saying that he would defend Barrack Obama to the death if anyone spoke of killing or shooting him, then shows a clip of Ted Nugent on stage making threats to The President with a gun he is holding in his hands...followed by Hannitty defending Nugent.."He is my friend"...he said)

Stewart then goes on to show some lyrics that were pretty foul concerning murder and such only to find out they were written by Johnny Cash.....

Pretty interesting commentary...

Me?...I look at Rap like this. I have yet to meet a human being who lacks the ability to rhyme....It's just not that difficult.

You so totally beat me to this one! Ted Nugent called out Obama and Clinton by name....personally and he's the darling of the right wing....but let someone they don't like go to the white house and Obama has ruined the country. Gimme a break!

____________________Sometimes we can't choose the music life gives us - but we damn sure can choose how we dance!

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