JFK ASSASSINATION ARGUMENTS (PART 997)

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

For anybody who thinks Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey Oswald as part of a pre-arranged conspiratorial plot (which would encompass almost all conspiracy theorists worldwide), the video linked HERE is certainly worth watching. It is a C-Span video which includes a panel of journalists who assembled at Southern Methodist University in Dallas, Texas, for a day-long commemorative seminar on November 20, 1993, to observe the 30th anniversary of JFK's assassination.

The moderator of the panel featured in the above-linked video is Tony Zoppi, who was Jack Ruby's friend since 1951. It's fascinating to hear Zoppi explain his relationship with Ruby, and particularly the part about Ruby's trip to Havana, Cuba, in late 1958, which many conspiracy theorists seem to think was conspiratorial in some fashion. [The portion of the seminar featuring Zoppi is presented below.]

Other journalists featured at the 1993 conference/seminar include Bob Jackson, Wes Wise, Ike Pappas, and Hugh Aynesworth.

The segment with Ike Pappas is another very good part of the program, as he vividly and energetically recounts the role he played during the unforgettable weekend of President Kennedy's death. Pappas died fairly recently, on August 31, 2008.

Another enlightening and interesting part of this segment of the 1993 "Reporters Remember 11-22-63" conference/seminar is the part where Gary DeLaune of Dallas radio station KLIF talks about how he didn't think it was unusual for Jack Ruby to have simply walked down the Main Street ramp leading into the City Hall basement on 11/24/63 just before Lee Oswald was shot, because DeLaune says that he HIMSELF walked down that very same ramp shortly before Ruby killed Oswald.

Given the sum total of all the witness statements connected with the important subject of "The Main Street Ramp", Gary DeLaune's statement about how he himself walked down that same ramp shortly before Oswald was shot must be taken with a grain of salt, of course. But DeLaune did make such a statement nevertheless.

HERE'S the KLIF-Radio audio from November 24th, 1963, which includes an extremely out-of-breath Gary DeLaune telling the radio audience about what he had just witnessed in the basement of the Dallas Police Department a few minutes earlier. DeLaune sounds as if he is on the verge of collapse in that remarkable clip. He is so out of breath, he can barely speak.

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Nice find. I have referenced that conference several times. It has lots of interesting little details....

....Mary Woodward says she originally reported that the shots came from behind her and to the right. BTW, that was in her original story and then the newspaper took that out in subsequent editions.

....It's fascinating to learn about Zoppi's relationship with organized crime.

Make sure that you listen carefully to [Darwin Payne] explaining the poll they took of the reporters about whether they think it was a conspiracy or a lone nut. He seems confused by the fact that almost everyone checked off lone nut and THEN checked off who was responsible for the conspiracy.

Here is the breakdown he reported:

Did Oswald act alone?: Yes--75, No--6.

Was Oswald involved in a conspiracy?: Yes--9, No--72.

If you believe that there was a conspiracy, who was involved? [TONY MARSH DOESN'T HAVE THE QUESTION WORDED CORRECTLY HERE; SEE MY REPLY BELOW]: Mafia--32; Cuba--14; US intelligence agencies--42; DPD--5.

Darwin Payne was confused by the results of the survey. Just as you are confused. But some of us get it.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Darwin Payne wasn't confused. Apparently the 81 people who responded to that poll were confused though, because the last question (according to Payne) was worded like this:

"IF YOU ANSWERED YES TO #2 [about there being a conspiracy], WHO WAS INVOLVED?"

Therefore, since only NINE people answered "Yes" to there being a conspiracy, there should have been only NINE people answering that last question about "who was involved?". Instead, there were 93 answers. Doesn't make sense at all.

And even taking into account the possibility that all 9 people who voted "Yes" to the #2 question wrote down multiple agencies being involved as co-conspirators, it still doesn't add up at all. Because how can "9" suddenly balloon to "93" for the last question?

Amazingly, per those poll results, only 9 people said "Yes" to the second question about a conspiracy, but 42 of those 9 said they think U.S. intelligence agencies were part of a plot to kill JFK.

~big ol' shrug~

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

So, the results of their [1993] survey were very similar to what I posted as representing what most polls of the American public believe. And as I pointed out, if you ask most journalists and CIA employees, about 99% of them will publicly state that they think that Oswald was a lone nut. .... But if you talked to those same people privately, about half of them would tell you that they suspect that there was a conspiracy and most likely Castro and/or the KGB were behind it. The Journalists Remember Symposium just confirms everything that I said.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

~chuckle~

So, Tony, what you seem to be saying here is that most of the people who said there was no conspiracy in that 1993 SMU poll were actually telling a lie. But then, just SECONDS LATER, when those same people were asked (WITHIN THE VERY SAME POLL!) to write down who they think was involved in a conspiracy to kill President Kennedy, those same people who told the falsehood about there being no conspiracy now have no qualms at all about telling their TRUE thoughts about who was involved.

Is that about the size of the situation, Anthony? That sure seems to be what you have implied above.

I guess those 75 people who voted for "Oswald acting alone" somehow completely forgot that they were supposed to keep up an "LN" facade when they were asked the next "Who was involved?" question, huh?

Were all 75 of them totally senile, in that they told a lie in one or two of the questions, and then turned around and told the pollsters their true inner feelings in the very next question? (Hilarious.)

The confusion regarding the SMU poll can be seen and heard near the end of this video (at 59:00).

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Many reporters said that when they saw Ruby milling around with them in the basement they just assumed he was a fellow reporter. He forgot to wear his Mafia identification in the band of his fedora.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

And that was during Ruby's approx. 25 to 45 seconds of "milling around" after he got into the basement but before he shot LHO, eh?

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

Hey, watch it you conspiracy monger. You are not supposed to admit things like that. The WC defenders are supposed to claim that he barely got there in time, not milling around for a minute, jockeying his way to the front of the group to get a clear shot.

In other words, Anthony Marsh thinks Ruby entered the DPD basement with gobs of room to spare before Oswald appeared.

Tony, you're an absolute howl!

ANTHONY MARSH SAID:

I am ridiculing the construction of some WC defenders who claim that Ruby just barely got there in time. If you are not one of them then you have nothing to complain about.

SANDY McCROSKEY SAID:

You seem to have missed David's point. Less than a minute is "barely in time," by my book.

If I got to a meeting (or caught a train) 25 to 45 seconds before it started, I'd say I just barely made it. Wouldn't you?

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

I hadn't realized until today [February 1, 2010] that a portion of Ike Pappas' coverage of the murder of Oswald was (according to Pappas himself) actually recorded after Ike had departed the DPD basement. The tape was then edited and pieced together at a later time. (It reminds me of the KBOX-Radio re-creation, which is a recording that for decades had me fooled into thinking it was done "live" on 11/22/63.)

FRANCOIS CARLIER SAID:

Could you please elaborate on that? Too little has been said on that subject, in my opinion. I'm not sure I understand well. Could you please explain in detail what exactly was recorded and when and how. And also where was the journalist at the very moment of the action. These questions apply for both cases (Ike Pappas and Ruby, and also the KBOX-Radio recreation). Thanks in advance.

DAVID VON PEIN SAID:

Hi Francois,

As far as Ike Pappas' WNEW-Radio recording of Oswald's murder, I know nothing more than what Pappas himself said in the 1993 SMU conference video, which has Pappas talking about how his "holy mackerel" comment was not uttered until sometime after he had departed the DPD basement. I think Pappas said he was on a stairway somewhere in City Hall when he said "holy mackerel".

Actually, Pappas said the words "holy mackerel" twice on his famous 11/24/63 tape recording. He says it once very shortly after Ruby shot Oswald (or at least I always thought that was done "live" at that time, but apparently, per Mr. Pappas in '93, it was recorded a little while later)....and the recording ends with Pappas saying "holy mackerel" again. Those are the very last words on the 5-minute version of the recording that I currently possess (which can be heard below):

So I'm not sure whether Pappas, in 1993, meant that BOTH of his "holy mackerels" were edited into the earlier part of the recording, or perhaps just the first one. Or: it's possible Ike had forgotten that he said those words TWICE, and not just once.

~shrug~

A LITTLE MORE ABOUT IKE PAPPAS:

Pappas was making fun of himself at the 1993 Dallas journalists conference due to the fact that he shouted "Oswald has been shot!" immediately after Ruby plugged Lee Harvey (or "Lee Harold", according to Bob Huffaker; more on Huffaker later in this post). ~wink~

But, in my opinion, Pappas' "Oswald has been shot!" verbiage was perfect. But Ike seems to think he should have come up with something more eloquent at that moment. I disagree. Pappas said just the right thing. And when you think about it for a minute, what the heck ELSE was Ike supposed to say to convey what had just occurred before his very eyes?

After not getting an answer from Oswald following the question that Pappas yelled at the DPD's famous prisoner ("Do you have anything to say in your defense?", which were probably the last words Oswald ever heard in his life)....should Pappas have said into his tape recorder: "I wonder why Oswald didn't answer me? There's not much else going on here that I can see"???

About the only thing that seems a little bit strange to me when listening to the Ike Pappas recording is when Pappas asks the French reporter (who was also a witness to the shooting), "What happened?"

It seemed kind of odd that Mr. Pappas would need to ask anyone else "what happened?" after Ike himself had just seen Oswald shot right before his very own eyes. Perhaps the event was so incredible, Ike felt he just couldn't BELIEVE his very own eyes at that exact moment.

For what it's worth, I regard Ike Pappas' live coverage of Lee Harvey Oswald's murder as one of the finest off-the-cuff "spot reports" in history. It's right up there with Andrew West's live radio coverage of Robert F. Kennedy's assassination in 1968. You can hear West's amazing recording HERE.

THE KBOX RE-CREATION:

Getting back to KRLD's Bob Huffaker again -- In May of 2006, I had a few e-mail conversations with Bob Huffaker regarding the events in Dallas in November 1963, and the topic of the KBOX-Radio coverage came up.

Bob told me at that time in 2006 that he was pretty certain that virtually all of the famous (and seemingly "live") audio footage from KBOX on 11/22/63 was actually recorded in a studio sometime later that day (or possibly a day or two after the assassination, I can't remember which it was now).

Unfortunately, I no longer have access to those 2006 e-mails, due to a crash of my computer's hard drive on January 31, 2007, which wiped out my e-mail's filing cabinet (much to my dismay).

But I definitely recall Mr. Huffaker telling me that it was his belief that most (or all) of the famous KBOX audio coverage by Sam Pate and Ron Jenkins that we hear today was not put on the air live on November 22, 1963.

Via this website, which contains a lot of information about KBOX's history, it would seem as though KBOX did indeed broadcast some bulletins live from Dealey Plaza and Stemmons Freeway on 11/22/63, although Bob Huffaker seems to think otherwise, according to the things he told me in 2006.

But even that KBOX webpage seems to be a little confused about what was broadcast live and what was recorded in a studio at a later time.