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Author
Topic: Someone you know will die... (Read 13866 times)

... in a car crash... crossing the street... from cancer... of old age... from a heart attack... from a drug overdose... from suicide... from a fall... from a new disease... getting mugged... fighting in war... of heartbreak... at the hands of a friend... for unknown reasons... in a plane crash... in a fire... climbing a mountain... from alcohol poisoning... from starvation... drowning... trying to save someone

There are a million ways that life will show us that it's a fragile being. You are no different.

Umm, actually, EVERYONE I know will die. Thats just about the only thing I know with 100% certainty. Anyone want to bet against it?

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Depending on your spiritual belief, we don't die, we just transform from a physical being to a spiritual one instead

Yeah. More of the poof theory.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Depending on your spiritual belief, we don't die, we just transform from a physical being to a spiritual one instead

Not a theory, there is proof out there. I am one of those who can give you the some proof.

?

So you're certain that we do something specific (transform from physical to spiritual, whatever that means).At the same time you say "depending on your belief". Why dilute your statement of belief with an introduction like that, one that is almost certainly just lip service to political correctness. It makes it hard to believe (at least for me) that you believe that at all.

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

I truly believe when we leave these bodies that we return to our original spiritual selfs. I have visited the other side on numerous occassions as a visitor and have communicated with those who have passed. I still do. I have a physical and on-line store where I help those communicate with their loved ones who have passed away. I have helped locate murdered people's remains as well as getting a description of their killers. I even have a picture of a spiritual being (who is actually my mother that passed away) as she is looking down and protecting me and Louie.

Our physical bodies constantly change since birth until we reach a point where our bodies can no longer change with our spiritual self still attached to it. That is when our physical body dies and our spiritual self continues on to a different, more loving life without disease, worry, fear, hatred, hunger, etc. . . Our physical body continues to change reverting back to the basic elements that makes up the universe.

There is no heaven or hell, just pure unconditional love. Or if you want to be technical about it OR politically correct OR what ever anyone wants to call it so not to offend or force my beliefs on anyone, since the other side is pure unconditional love, then there is a heaven, hell is right here on this earth. Hell is pure torture. No matter how happy someone seems, how worry free they may seem their bodies are changing, aches, pains, sickness, disease, hair loss, the list goes on. That's torture, that's hell. (Now I've just given you something to think about no matter what your religious belief is.)

Some do not have it so bad in hell, some of us do. Some people cross over peacefully, others do not. I may pass over peacefully but it's going to be a long, very long and rough journey until that happens. Though I kind of like it here in hell and am not ready to leave (I'm still having too much fun), I know that I'll enjoy heaven even more. Besides, my job here is not finished yet. My spiritual self is awakening in my physical self where the connection between the 2 is opening up. My mother and other relatives I knew in a physical form will be there waiting for me and so will all those men I have loved and lost.

WE ALL WILL FINALLY BE FREE FROM DISEASES!!!

When scientists come up with the cure for HIV/AIDS (and they will) hell will find another way to torture millions of us again. And on and on and on. As it has happened throughout history with different diseases, so it will continue when they find this cure.

Humankind is continuously evolving to the point where, when we are born, our spiritual true self will be fully aware of our physical bodies. We will all remember and know what our spiritual lives were like. We will be able to communicate with those who have chosen not to take physical form just like we talk to each other in person. When we decide we no longer want to be here in a physical form any longer we will seperate from it. It will be our choice. The spirit world and physical world will co-exist, we will finally be able to see them with our eyes, hear them with our ears and speak to them and everyone around will hear what they are saying. This will be what many call armagaden, the end of life as we know it. Hell will cease to exist and pure unconditional love will be everywhere. We will co-exist as physical and spiritual beings.

This is what I truly believe, practice, preach and teach to those who are open minded enough to listen.

Not a theory, there is proof out there. I am one of those who can give you the some proof.

Proof and faith cannot coexist. otherwise we'd call it science. But please do try to enlighten me. I may be argumentative about it but I will not be disrespectful.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

Well, those are certainly interesting beliefs and each is entitled to his own. I am wary to think of what proof you can give me regarding those beliefs.

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!

I used to believe in God until I actually saw somebody die. Now I don't think there's anything.

Matt, I too have actually seen someone die (transition). It was my mother. I was holding her hand as she took her last breath. For almost 24 hours, while she was getting ready for the transition, her eyes were glossy and closed most of the time. A second before she died, she opened up her eyes, not glossy at all, looked right at me, smiled, squeezed my and Louie's hand, closed her eyes and she was gone. She had made me promise earlier in the week that I would not let her die alone. She knew during the last 24 hours that I was with her, occassionally we would talk, though she made no sense in what she was saying. She wanted to make sure that I kept my promise, the smile was her letting me know that she was glad I kept that promise and that everything will be OK.

The following day when I was getting ready to go to the funeral home for a private service before she was creamated, I wanted to listen to a song. It was "Believe" from Cher.

We had a 5 disc cd changer. You could hear the disc get picked up, spun around, put back in it's spot and change to another disc. It started playing "I Will Survive" I tried changing it with the remote to my original song I wanted to hear, again the same thing happened. Tried a different cd with a different song. The same thing. No matter what song we tried to play it kept going back to "I Will Survive". I went over, moved all the cd's around to different locations, just in case there was a glitch with the cd player. None of the cd's were in their original position, not even the one containing the song "I Will Survive". We tried it again, and low and behold, it picked up the cd with the song "I WIll Survive". No matter what we tried to play it would not play anything but that song. No other cd out of the 5 of them would play except that one.

I said "OK mom, I get the message I'll listen to the song". I balled my eyes out during the whole song. After we listened to the song we have never had another problem like that with the cd changer again, not even 6 years later.Then 7 months later, while praying I asked to be able to see my mother in her new form. The next afternoon a friend called up to say that he had a picture of me that was just taken recently that I just had to see. You can see what I and many others call a spirit surrounding and looking down upon me.

Matt I hope someday you believe again. To see the picture I was talking about, here's the link. (That's me on the right, Louie on the left.)

By the way, no one was smoking in the house or anything when this picture was taken, smoking was not allowed in the house at all during renovations. No dust was kicked up either, he had just vacuumed and swept the day before to get ready to lay down new floors. My prayer from the night before was answered when he called about this picture. You can see that there is definitely something there looking down at me.

On that point then where do miracles come in to play? What area of science do they belong to? Many religions (faith) believe that miracles have and do happen, many documented (proof) cases of people cured of terminal diseases for no reason. Other than prayer (proof). Louie's KS came back even stronger after the 1'st round of chemo was over with. No HIV meds for awhile and no chemo treatment since early October (he had only 2 treatments). By December the KS is gone. Doc can't explain it. t-cells in the 50's, 8% over 100,000 virul load. My reasoning and explanation, it's because of prayer, Reiki and my classification of a miracle since his immune system was so bad, the KS should have continued to spread. Late stage cancers and others as well. If proof and faith cannot coexist, then what scientific field would they belong to?

I know one of my ID doctors has faith. When I made it through OSU with histo, his statement to me was, I did what medical science can achieve, but for you to be living goes to a higher power than me. I saw them remove the body bag from my room. I know how close I was.

Rev, I hardly think an anecdote about a broken CD player proves life after death, but I have no doubt you believe it meant something. And, if it helped your grieving process after the death of your mother, then I suppose it was a good thing, whatever it was.

I completely disagree with anyone who says that faith and science cannot coexist. I would suggest that they aren't so different from one another, or at the very least that it's not so easy to tell when an article of faith in science is actually a mere belief. The presupposition of science is that it is even possible to know something. Philosophy (and science) has cast doubt on this possibility. Even the idea that two parallel lines remain equidistant from one another can be proven to be untrue under certain contexts. Science constantly disproves itself, and what can be described as articles of faith in science do eventually become quaint old beliefs. In recent years science itself has been inundated with string theory, which in and of itself breaks many of the rules of proof in science simply because it can and does accurately predict results, but no one has yet described why.

Unfortunately for those who feel that there is a science vs belief dichotomy, those who side with science have a very valid point that what we call science has produced and continues to produce verifiable results. Skeptics has been very successful at disproving assertions of belief. Anyway, sorry to ramble.

puck

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

Rev, I hardly think an anecdote about a broken CD player proves life after death, but I have no doubt you believe it meant something. And, if it helped your grieving process after the death of your mother, then I suppose it was a good thing, whatever it was.

Ahh, if it was broken then it would have continued to do that even to this day. Electronics do not act up just one time like this and then work properly again. It has been 6 years and the CD player is still working perfectly.

I gather you are an un-believer no matter what anyone has to say. There were 4 other people in the house with us when it happened and they were all wondering what was going on and amazed that when we allowed the song to play that the cd player never acted up again. One of those people was an 81 yr old woman who was just a friend of the family.

I was balling my eyes out because I understood that everything would be OK. She gave me a message right before she took her last breath and did so the following day.

I'm sorry that you are a non-believer. I'm just writing about my beliefs and giving some food for thought. I'm also posting about events and pictures that can not be reasonably explained without any doubts at all. It may just help someone who is on the edge of losing what faith they have left and give hope to those seeking answers and comfort while dealing with this disease.

Anyone who works with electronics (or anything mechanical) knows that they sometime DO start working after breaking. The letter C on my keyboard suddenly stopped working earlier today, and now works. Just because I don't know why it now works doesn't mean it's a miracle, and it certainly doesn't prove that someone dead whose name begins with C is trying to contact me.

I shouldn't have addressed your anecdote. I am really more interested in talking about the science vs belief dichotomy (which you brought up) and I think it distracted you. So, for that, I'm sorry. And I certainly do not need your "sorry that I am an unbeliever" thing. Thanks, but keep your sorrow for people who are sad or something... I'm just curious...kind of like a monkey... only with less hair.

« Last Edit: February 20, 2007, 10:16:24 PM by dtwpuck »

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Floating through the void in the caress of two giant pink lobsters named Esmerelda and Keith.

People with religious/spiritual beliefs have always amused Matty the Damned. MtD is, like all sane bodies, a militant atheist.

I would say to my fellow unbelievers that engaging the theists is a fools errand. The onus is not on us to disprove the existence of a God/Supreme Personality/Ellen Degeneres (take your pick), rather it is the job of the believers to prove the existence of their god.

And I mean prove in the traditional scientific sense. In the same way that it's been proven that HIV causes AIDS.

Anecdotal stories about the shuddering death of a beloved relative or how an CD player suddenly resumed its warranted function after being drowned in bourbon, whilst heart warming, don't constitute proper evidence. Rational, clear minded people dismiss these things as interesting but not relevant to the topic at hand.

I do like the Rev's attached picture of a supposedly non-corporeal entity materialising out of the ether. That's a good 'un. It reminds one of those "ectoplasm" photographs used by shyster mediums in the 19th century to titillate the uneducated masses at freak shows. Or James Hydrick flipping phone book pages on That's Incredible. Most entertaining.

Rather than accept that as evidence of a supernatural or metaphysical realm, I'd suggest that the photographer probably didn't get all of the Crisco off the lens after the porn shoot.

But where are all our resident pagans? Usually you guys infest these threads like lice in a new age commune. It's not solstice so I'm surprised that the Disciples of the Goddess aren't here doing their fabulous "organised religion is bad, but people who reject the spiritual are total bigots" routine.

I hope this thread hangs around a bit because I love talking about/reading about this sort of stuff. I'll probably punch in something tomorrow, but I'm too tuckered tonight to make much of a contribution. I'll go on record right now saying that I am not a very religious person. I would like to read a description of "the soul" from the non-faithful side, though. I've heard a lot about what the spiritual / religious camp says about the nature of the soul. I've never really heard it described in depth by a non-spiritual perspective. Hope this post makes some sense. My eyes are blurry right now.

No soul? So what is it that makes up the...gosh, what's the word here? (I knew I was too tired to get started on this) The...essence of a person? The characteristics of personality? Passions? Fears? Sadness and Love and all that stuff? If not "soul", what is it that makes me ME and you YOU and so on?

(And side note: very happy to see MtD around here lately. I even think I spied Bucko on here yesterday.)

No soul? So what is it that makes up the...gosh, what's the word here? (I knew I was too tired to get started on this) The...essence of a person? The characteristics of personality? Passions? Fears? Sadness and Love and all that stuff? If not "soul", what is it that makes me ME and you YOU and so on?

Well Timberley the question I ask is why should these things be the preserve of a "soul"? A soul isn't the insubstantial bits of you that you can't see, it's a distinct (and fallacious) religious construct.

Well no. Neither death nor birth are mysterious. They are everyday and common place, dear. Death is merely the cessation of life processes. Birth is even more hum-drum. From what I understand it involves a whole lot of heaving and swearing, shitting and ropes slung over pulleys.

In that sense, it's not unlike sex.

Faith is belief in the absence of proof. The strongest people I know are those who are wise enough and humble enough not to rely solely upon themselves.

Faith is the substance of things unseen and the promise of things yet to be. Faith sustains fundamentalist religious weirdos who bomb cafes in the near east and controls the election of American presidents. It is the stuff of tom-foolery and the comfort of the weak.

My own view is that this planet is used as a penal colony, lunatic asylum and dumping ground by a superior civilization, to get rid of the undesirable and unfit. I can't prove it, but you can't disprove it either. It happens to be my view, but it doesn't challenge any of the findings of Darwin or Huxley or Einstein or Hawking.

we are all originally spiritual beings who for one reason or another have taken physical form. So even thinking of the children, we were all children at one point and time.

Our spiritual selves have lessons to learn while taking physical form so that when we return to our spiritual selves again we can continue on our journey to be even closer to our creator (god) and more godlike.

What those lessons are are known by our creator and our spiritual self. Even children have lessons to learn on their journey to becoming adults.

we are all originally spiritual beings who for one reason or another have taken physical form. So even thinking of the children, we were all children at one point and time.

Our spiritual selves have lessons to learn while taking physical form so that when we return to our spiritual selves again we can continue on our journey to be even closer to our creator (god) and more godlike.

What those lessons are are known by our creator and our spiritual self. Even children have lessons to learn on their journey to becoming adults.

The Rev is a profound lesson to us all. If you've ever wondered why peyote is, by statute, restricted to Native Americans of the south-west you need look no further.

But where are all our resident pagans? Usually you guys infest these threads like lice in a new age commune. It's not solstice so I'm surprised that the Disciples of the Goddess aren't here doing their fabulous "organised religion is bad, but people who reject the spiritual are total bigots" routine.

Why cast pearls before swine? ~shrug~

Ann(who believes we are all spiritual beings undergoing a human existance - but would never dream of attacking others for their beliefs or non-beliefs.)

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Ann(who believes we are all spiritual beings undergoing a human existance - but would never dream of attacking others for their beliefs or non-beliefs.)

Gee Ann, that's really mean. Quite Ohio in a way. All that patchouli incense must have fuddled your Sybil like judgement. What would the Goddess think? You shouldn't let other peoples negativity eat you all up like that.

Ann(who believes we are all spiritual beings undergoing a human existance - but would never dream of attacking others for their beliefs or non-beliefs.)

Gee Ann, that's really mean. Quite Ohio in a way. All that patchouli incense must have fuddled your Sybil like judgement. What would the Goddess think? You shouldn't let other peoples negativity eat you all up like that.

MtD(Who offers Ann a cleansing spell)

Mean? No, I just have no interest in shoving my personal spiritual beliefs down someone else's throat. And don't worry dear, my anti-negativity software is already in place and regularly updated. But thanks for your concern.

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

"...health will finally be seen not as a blessing to be wished for, but as a human right to be fought for." Kofi Annan

Nymphomaniac: a woman as obsessed with sex as an average man. Mignon McLaughlin

HIV is certainly character-building. It's made me see all of the shallow things we cling to, like ego and vanity. Of course, I'd rather have a few more T-cells and a little less character. Randy Shilts

Ahhhh, I thought this might re-engage the Damned one. However it was my own vices that prompted me to ask for proof.

I am with Matty on this one. There is no soul and all that. As for the photo, I can think of several reasons, NON crisco related, that can cause that to happen with a photo. Inside the lens, on the lens, on the mirror, on the film, during development etc etc.

Life and death are no mystery but I do think that most mortal men need something to hang on to. I dont think the human psyche can handle the truth of it. We need a reason for being here when one truly doesnt need to exist.

As for the debate of science and faith. I still say they cannot co-exist with each other. Science is about repeatable proof. It is about results. If science were like religion the scientists would say ok water is made up of, well its water, just trust us on that one. No need to look any further. Water is water and its always been water and it will always be water. Do not doubt that and do not investigate any further for that is the devils work. Instead of just saying that after repeated analysis we have found water is made up of 2 parts hydrogen and 1 part oxygen. See how easy that is.

You cant tell me what that apparition in the picture is made up of. You cant repeat that picture. And if you could it would cease to be faith that your clinging to and become.... science.

As for miracles. Just because you cant explain something doesnt mean its a miracle. Before the late great rock and roll soul of Louis Pastuer found his little green men causing havoc within our bodies, people had no idea of what caused infections to come and go. Some called this a miracle when they got better but then we found out they were eating moldy bread (penicillan). Not a miracle.

My absolute favorite religious belief right now is the Poof Theory. (I think they call it creationism) They truly TRULY believe that there was NOTHING and then POOF, 7 days later we have the earth and the stars and everything else in the universe. They believe the earth is only 6000 or so years old when we have PROOF it is older by far. Not to mention the Poof Theory is just funny as hell to begin with. Makes their lord and saviour sound like David Fucking Copperfield.

Anyway, one question for all of you cept Matty (cause i thinks i know his answer) a Joan Osbourn song got me thinking once. If god was sitting next to you on a bus and you could ask him one question what would it be? (I shall reveal my revelational question later today)

« Last Edit: February 21, 2007, 03:10:33 PM by ACinKC »

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LIFE is not a race to the grave with the intention of arriving safelyin a pretty and well-preserved body, but, rather to skid in broadside,thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming--WOW! WHAT ARIDE!!!