If this is your first visit, be sure to
check out the FAQ by clicking the
link above. You may have to register
before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages,
select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

further

They dont have to clone the whole being, they are currently cloning parts of people in the U.S. Skin being the first off the top of my head. But the fetus issue is the problem.

~Sweet Merciful Crap!~
Freyja is my Valentine, sweeter than the sweetest wine.
my adopted smilies
It is not that which is on the outside, but that witch is on the inside!
T.L.F. Trey Liberation Front!
flar7 "The Wrong One"

Re: Re: 6 billion+ is not enough?

Originally posted by mol

Yikes. You will have to elaborate that statement for me Tiger. Please.

I think science has gotten way out of control. Cloning is pointless. It will just turn into another excuse as to how we can allow the goddesses creatures to go extinct. Hey, we can just make some labratory ones later.

I do not want to live in a world created by white labcoat guy. Do you?

Co-Moderator in the History Forum and New Pagans. If anyone needs me while I'm online I can be emailed or instant messaged at KingTigerwallah@aol.com or for Yahoo users - Tigerwallah@Yahoo.com. Isis is my queen. Sekhemet my source of strength.

I'd just like to take a moment to point out a few things that may not have been thought much about for everyone to ponder.

* When someone puts so much time, attention, and energy into something, that something takes on a part of that energy. So is a 'clone' 'born' from any less love than any other baby?

* If clones shouldn't exist because of overpopulation, then shouldn't any children not born from two loving parents not exist either? Or should one loving parent be alowed to carry the burden? Or should 'natural' babies always be allowed? Where does one draw a line for the sake of 'overpopulation'? At least clones are brought into the world because people want them. Can the same be said for all 'natural' children?

* Just when does a baby decide to be born? What triggers it? Some unknown or meaningless occurance? (After all, what meaning could it have if babies can be born so premature or late that their life is threatened?) Or could it be that a baby is born when a soul finally merges with the body and thus the baby is ready to be a person? And until that time the soul and the body are not tied together in life or in death?

* If a clone were made just for 'spare parts' imagine not just the life saved by the organs they needed from that clone, but also the lives saved by the other organs taken for organ transplants and the blood taken.

* People have been practicing generic manipulation since the beginning of time. Have humans mated out of pure randomness? Or did they CHOOSE a partner for specific genetic traits?

* All living things have a life force, an energy to them. In fact, all things have an energy to them and energy in them. If this does not constitute a 'soul', then what is it?

* Is a blade of grass any less alive than an ant? Is a clone any less alive than the original? Whether plant, animal, human, or other, is a clone any less than any other life?

* Clones are born too.

In my opinion, clones are an important phase in the evolution of the mind and spirit. Even if cloning humans never becomes legal, it will still take place and it will force us to think about just why or why not it should be legal, and that brings us growth.

So whether legal or not, cloning will still bring a positive result. The only people who do not gain from it are the ones who refuse to think about it.

Originally posted by slvr_phoenix
In my opinion, clones are an important phase in the evolution of the mind and spirit. Even if cloning humans never becomes legal, it will still take place and it will force us to think about just why or why not it should be legal, and that brings us growth.

Thanks slvr_phoenix, I was wondering if anyone would bring this up, and since you did, I guess I'll add a word or two.

Its quite possible that genetic engineering and cloning is the next grand step in human evolution. Only this time a larger brain (or a more complete use of the brain) as well as an enhanced resistance to disease won't take so many millions of years to come about. This sounds pretty cool to me.

But, theres some sinister possibilities....

Less than 70 years ago another group of folks wanted to develop a super-race of humans and quicken the evolution of mankind by first perpetuating, then improving what they considered the best example of humans on the planet. And they tried every technology they could come up with to do it. And they attempted to help their cause by eliminating what they considered the worst examples of humans on the planet. Millions of people died. Ultimately they couldn't succeed.

Could genetic engineering/cloning again lead to some similar eventualities? I think its possible... I think that is the REAL reason the government is limiting the advance of this science.

Politically, the Republicans put the "Fetus" and "abortion" and all those related issues at the front of their battles...
Rebublicans are anti-abortion for the most part.

When Clinton was in the white house (the democrats are generally pro choice, but not all), and yet democrats are also
hesitant, at least, if not absolutely opposed to this genetic manipulation in part and certainly the cloning of humans.

I just think it may be a larger issue than we've posted about yet.

-i'm drawing a blank now-
-Jesse-

--I know that I am, and thats about all I can say for sure-- my own saying.

The majority of science benefits only humans. This causes a disproportionate advantage and therefor throws off natures balance. I'm sorry, but I wholeheartedly believe that humans have no more right to life than any other of the Earth's creatures.

Humans are very selfish and destructive creatures. You are faced with this new technology and on one hand is immediate gratification and everything that is beneficial to human life. On the other hand is all of the other creatures of the goddess, and the Earth herself. I find it sad that we continue to chose selfish, immediate gratification over what is right. Science continues to look toward colonizing other planets (Mars) because some day this one will no longer be liveable. Fault of the hummingbird and the grey wolf? No.

I recently read "Whale Nation." A book that tells of the history of the whaling industry. There have been countless cases of whalers being saved, during a shipwreck, by the same dolphins that they were slaughtering. It would be beneficial to the dolphin to hold the whalers under the water until they drown, but instead they do the selfless thing, and save the men. The men, in turn, return to work and slaughter dolphins. Was the dolphin stupid or good? Was the man advantageous or evil? You decide.

Last edited by Tigerwallah; August 20th, 2001 at 11:26 PM.

Co-Moderator in the History Forum and New Pagans. If anyone needs me while I'm online I can be emailed or instant messaged at KingTigerwallah@aol.com or for Yahoo users - Tigerwallah@Yahoo.com. Isis is my queen. Sekhemet my source of strength.

clones - some thoughts

1) Using clones as transplant donors would be tricky, because if you cloned the entire human being, as a result, the human would have to be alive for the organs to be viable; which would give the clone rights, since it is a living human being.

2) You can't just clone an organ at this point, in spite of what some people would have you believe. Even if you did, the organ wouldn't be guaranteed to work at all; without the rest of the body to rely upon - and to start it working - it would just be so much meat.

2) Human cloning makes me uncomfortable for several reasons. One is the memory of what the Third Reich tried to do with eugenics. The other reason is that I think it's a misapplication of science. There are so many other things that could be more useful to do, that would help people and help the planet. Human cloning is a waste of time.

3) There is no guarantee at all that human cloning will work. Animal cloning fails 98% of the time. Dolly the Sheep is noteworthy because she is an anomaly; she survived.