I explode less often now than I used to (and then, it was just once in a blue moon), and it's usually when my sense of justice has been very violated by someone I thought I could trust not to do whatever they did.

The List....yes. It's not really because I have an ongoing tally, it's just that as my brain is trying desperately to make sense of how someone could act the way they did, the connection making part of my brains explodes in an intricate spiderweb of instances that support whatever theory ends up making the most sense. It's insane, the amount of emotional info that bubbles to the surface from the past and gets connected and categorized during the short couple of hours that I'm angry. It leaves me exhausted. I tend to sound like a conspiracy theorist while I'm babbling on like an enraged seer, probing motives that I usually have the decency to leave alone, making predictions about the future, hurling accusations that have a good bit of truth and a great lot of fear. It's mostly because my emotions have been thrown off-kilter and my J demands an explaination, and I don't have enough time to cull out the more outrageous conclusions like I normally do.

It's like an explosion of slightly off-balanced intuition. My spouse (the one who usually catches most of my anger, just because he's one of the few I trust to that level) has learned to don a fire-proof jacket and take notes. Even though a lot of it is angry/fearful babble, there's usually a good deal of useful insight mixed in as well.

Strangely enough, until I moved to the north, I never had had occasion to experience huge amounts of frustration in my life. There I found many legitimate reasons to be consistently at the end of my emotional string, even though I am normally very even-keeled.

My boyfriend was an integral part of the success of our fiddle trips (only suitable and available male chaperone in the whole school for several years), yet we did not see eye to eye on many issues to do with children. He wanted to be needed and was very good at what he did, yet often made me feel beholden for his help or else usurped my position. He also liked to be in control, even when it was more appropriate for me to be (my program, most appropriate for me to interface with other instructors etc). We were very different types but also he was not used to needing to resolve things. We relied on each other for so many things and so these communication issued bled into professional, social and practical life.

Aside from that though, the community we were in was very culturally different and was dysfunctional in many ways (lots of drug and alcohol abuse and the spin off effects of that). Our school did not have subs or EAs that were educated (often barely scraped through high school, if that) and there was a lot of outright aggressive or passive aggressive behaviour. Children were often not well fed or rested and had not been taught routines and appropriate communication skills, so I was very much in the position of parenting, but without the influence that a parent wields.

Our administration changed frequently and was usually chosen on the basis of who remained in the north, rather than skill sets and suitability. Teachers often would not send their children to my class (or gave the kids a choice about whether to go) because they did not see it as an important subject. The school division was also poorly run at all levels of management and so it was very difficult to work efficiently.

All community events ran late and because most involved alcohol (which made for a very volatile environment) we only had limited social life outside the teachers we had been with all day. Many were unhappy to be there (had to come to pay off student loans or because they couldn't get work closer to home) or else were odd ducks hiding out from life, so there was also a lot of alcohol, negativity and isolation. The nearest community to shop in was three hours away and was a difficult journey over bad roads, ending in Walmart, and Boston Pizza as the main draws. The next community to go to was about 8 hours away.

None of this is to say that I am not very glad that I spent so long there. I wouldn't have traded it for the world. However, I never felt overwhelming anger (like fantasizing about slowing choking bad children and watching the blood drain from their faces!!!!) like that in my life. It truly scared me at first, until I learned how to better deal with it.

These are the circumstances under which that kind of INFJ anger and frustration comes out. It is being pushed to the limit all the time by a circumstance or relationship that you can't change and yet do not want to leave.

I get very quiet and then it ends up coming out all snappy and irritable. I wish I had a different mode for anger, but I need time to process, and if I don't get it out in the neutral time after processing, it'll definitely show up later on down the line. And once things are over--that is, once I've processed something that made me upset and the moment has passed, I can be kind of loath to bring it up again... so it's common that I never do get to "get it out" in the neutral time. So when it comes back up, I end up being snippy and probably crying while trying to get it out civilly.

When I was younger, I was way more explosive, though. I like to think I've grown.

INFJ

"I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.

Is a personal sense of entitlement always an unhealthy thing? Shouldnít children feel a personal sense of entitlement- in regards to feeling loved by a parent- even though, technically, it isnít something they have control over? Or even: after several years of marriage, shouldnít someone feel entitled to some degree of honesty and loyalty from an SO (which isnít really in oneís control, either)?

I think I can see where you were headed- that itís always important to be mindful of the things we individually feel entitled to, right? I just want to point out that- where other people and respectful, responsible behavior is concerned- there are things that we should be able to feel reasonably entitled to in life. IMO, anyway. Itís an incredibly miserable and depressing notion to think we arenít entitled, at least, to a modicum of respect and honesty from those who have promised it to us.

My main point was to show the direct relationship between anger and entitlement. If a person values entitlement, then anger serves a function. I have not fully come to terms with every aspect of this issue, but have found some peace in the first steps I have taken.

As far as relationships are concerned, a person can feel entitled to a lover responding to them in a certain way, and if they don't the reaction is anger. If you take time to understand why the lover didn't respond to you, and realize that it doesn't effect your own worth, then their reaction is what it is. Understanding replaces expectation and disappointment. The same is true for me professionally. I have diplomas that state "I am entitled to all the rights and privileges associated with this degree." After receiving my doctorate I have personally never made it over the poverty line in terms of income until this year (10 years out). At the same time I have had peers and professors with full-time jobs indulge in competition and work to undermine me even though I posed no realistic threat. They competed for status, while I was working to have the opportunity to have money for food. Their behavior also revealed a lack of comprehension for the reality of my situation. I felt some anger initially, but spent a lot of time by a lake or in a forest thinking and reflecting. I realized that life is going to be as it is, and my internal construct of what it owes me will not change its nature, but will only change my own nature. The latter is the one thing that is mine and to which I am entitled. I will not let anger and false expectation take that away. If I let go of that constructed future in my mind, then I can take whatever is offered me, whatever I can seek out realistically, and appreciate the fullness of it.

Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors. Fear of reality creates myopic moralitySo I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
(from Blue Velvet)

My main point was to show the direct relationship between anger and entitlement.

Yeah, I actually agree with you. Itís a really good point. For whatever reason, an extreme end of it popped into my head and thatís what I replied to; that pesky Ni curse of seeing something Ďextraí in someone elseís comment.

Originally Posted by toonia

Their behavior also revealed a lack of comprehension for the reality of my situation. I felt some anger initially, but spent a lot of time by a lake or in a forest thinking and reflecting. I realized that life is going to be as it is, and my internal construct of what it owes me will not change its nature, but will only change my own nature. The latter is the one thing that is mine and to which I am entitled. I will not let anger and false expectation take that away. If I let go of that constructed future in my mind, then I can take whatever is offered me, whatever I can seek out realistically, and appreciate the fullness of it.

I think a lot of why itís so difficult for some INFJs to get angry is that thereís something exactly like this ^ floating around in the back of our minds, and being angry goes against good sense. I know, at least, itís true for me. Iím so accustomed to being able to see the misunderstanding behind the anger of the people around me, or see how pointless and/or counterproductive anger can be; when Iím feeling anger and canít reason it away, I get unreasonably frustrated with myself. And I get embarrassed for being angry, which a lot of people (directly around me) donít understand. A lot of that little snit of rage Iím feeling is at actually at me for not being able to reason it away.

I really liked what you said, though, and agree that itís really important to take feelings of entitlement into account.

I hardly ever even feel anger to begin with, let alone express it in any overt way...
Perhaps this is due to my growing up around people who had little to no tolerance for stress, and exploded often. Adult temper tantrums. It never got them anywhere, and the behavior really just disgusts me these days. People who don't know how to pause and think about why they feel the way they do are slaves to their emotions, and hurt themselves and others in the longterm and solve nothing.
When something's bothering me, I ask questions before I allow myself to react to the initial emotional response. I ask myself questions, and I calmly ask the people involved questions.
I never yell. I don't get passive agressive. I ask my questions and address the problem as directly as possible. If the other party doesn't seem receptive to healthy communication, then I just step away from that situation and try to think of another way to approach it. I see no point in allowing anything to escalate. And no point in getting pissed. Such a waste of energy and precious time.

Hello people, I just want to tell you all that I have an INFJ cat. It is generally very quiet and neat, but it rages a lot. It seems unique and creative in the regard of how it runs after mice. It must be an INFJ, as those profiles say, INFJs are exceptionally unique, creative and quiet. Hence, since my cat rages a lot, I will have to say that rage is predominantly an INFJ thing and all INFJs therefore rage a great deal.

I will be sure to write another long essay on INFJ rage. Oh by the way, there is this annoying fly that keeps on buzzing around my room. It seems like it just can't settle down! It is very active and has a short attention span, and cunning as it manipulates me into doing everything besides killing it. Hey, it must be an ESTP, as it is manipulative (remember, the Love Types have the Wheeler-dealer persona for the ESTP), very active and has a short attention span! INFJs, stay away from flies, they are the opposite of your type! Especially INFJs who like to rage a great deal, oh wait, all of you like to rage a great deal because my INFJ cat does! That fly's got to make you furious because its an ESTP and no no! Opposites do not attract, we all hate our shadow. Anyhow, INFJs, stay away from flies! End of lecture.

"Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

Yes, Solitary, we understand that you feel these threads have gotten ridiculous. I can agree with you on some of them. On the other hand, in this particular thread, I think it is helpful for the people dealing with INFJs that they don't understand to have a chance to ask some questions (just as I've found the Ask An ESTJ thread invaluable). There are enough people who have expressed similar experiences that while it may not describe every INFJ ever, it is a common enough thought pattern that it is of some value to those who don't instantly recognize and understand it. I think the more appropriate place for your response is in a place like, "INFJs, do you love cats?".

Hello people, I just want to tell you all that I have an INFJ cat. It is generally very quiet and neat, but it rages a lot. It seems unique and creative in the regard of how it runs after mice. It must be an INFJ, as those profiles say, INFJs are exceptionally unique, creative and quiet. Hence, since my cat rages a lot, I will have to say that rage is predominantly an INFJ thing and all INFJs therefore rage a great deal.

I will be sure to write another long essay on INFJ rage. Oh by the way, there is this annoying fly that keeps on buzzing around my room. It seems like it just can't settle down! It is very active and has a short attention span, and cunning as it manipulates me into doing everything besides killing it. Hey, it must be an ESTP, as it is manipulative (remember, the Love Types have the Wheeler-dealer persona for the ESTP), very active and has a short attention span! INFJs, stay away from flies, they are the opposite of your type! Especially INFJs who like to rage a great deal, oh wait, all of you like to rage a great deal because my INFJ cat does! That fly's got to make you furious because its an ESTP and no no! Opposites do not attract, we all hate our shadow. Anyhow, INFJs, stay away from flies! End of lecture.

It is a shame that you're not getting from this internet forum what you need. Alas, a lack.

My ESFP cat would love to snuggle you so that you could feel better about how vapid the people on the internet are.

INFJ

"I can never be what I ought to be until you are what you ought to be. You can never be what you ought to be until I am what I ought to be. This is the interrelated structure of reality." -Martin Luther King, Jr.