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NIWeek Starts Monday — LENR to be Featured

Starting Monday, August 6, National Instruments holds its annual NIWeek conference where workshops, presentations and exhibitions are held about topics connected with NI’s work in developing hardware and software used for measurement and control in science and engineering.

This year there are some events taking place which are of interest to people following the LENR story. Recently NI’s director of Science and Big Physics Segment, Stefano Concezzi revealed that the company was deeply involved in working with important LENR researchers around the world, and at this conference there will be presentations from various people in the LENR world.

On Tuesday, August 7th there will be a 1 hour panel discussion entitled, “The Quest for Alternative Energy—Anomalous Heat Effect (a.k.a. Cold Fusion)” featuring panelists Akito Takahashi of Technova Inc., Andrea Aparo of Ansaldo Energia, Michael McKubre of SRI International, Robert Duncan of the University of Missouri, and Robert Godes of Brillouin.

On Wednesday, August 8th there will be a 30 minute presentation on “The Status of CMNS/CF/LENR Research at Kobe-Technova” by Akito Takahashi of Technova Inc.

Also on Wednesday there will be a 30 minute session on “The Commercialization of LENR Technology’ by Robert Godes of Brillouin Energy.

A Big Physics and Science Poster Session will be held on August 8th which will “review the technical papers, projects, and research work of scientists and engineers from different labs and commercial companies.” Among the presenters at this session will be Alexandros Xanthoulis, George Xanthoulis, James Dunn, John Hadjichristos and Symeon Tsalikoglou of Defkalion Green Technologies; Francesco Celani of INFN; Peter Hagelstein of MIT; and Frank Gordon retired of SPAWAR.

For people following LENR, it is quite unusual to have so many presentations held on cold fusion in the context of a large conference covering many non-controversial scientific topics. Perhaps this will be an event that might open some eyes among conference attendees, most of whom work in the mainstream of science and engineering. I know at least one person who will be at the conference and will try to find as much as I can about how the presentations go and the reception they received.

The key catalyst for the Ni-H transmutation reaction are substances producing negatively charged hydrogen ions being used in the Piantelli invention (see US 2011/0249783 A1, Fig. 5). See also e-Cat Builder Site
mentioning potassium hydride liberating by heating above 400°C said ions joining the positively charged nickel nucleus forming copper.

Roger Bird

Can I say “WOW”!!!!

s

People, I did calculations based on the data from New Energy times about the Celani demo. The results are slightly troubling. From NET, the excess power was about 10 watts. This equals about 36,000 Joules per hour. However, the energy density of hydrogen is about 128,000 joules per gram. So, the energy output was equal to about 1/4 gram of hydrogen per hour. Then, they spoke of loading the wire with hydrogen for 3 days(!). I would need to see the weight of hydrogen that was loaded before making any conclusions though.

robiD

The power excess of that kind of wire lasts more than tens of days (probably months). Celani talked about this a few time ago. That one in Austin is only a demo.

Also keep in mind that Piantelli’s cells produce excess heat (more than 50W excess) for more than 300 days.

Chris

Unlike the entrepreneurs in this matter, Celani is a researcher employed by a public accademic research establishment and therefore he keeps no secret about how he prepares his experiments. Also, it appears that he, like Piantelli and others, is no longer talking about fluke cases out of many attempts.

Conclusion: if you are willing to invest your own time and resources, you can enquire for the details and try it out, with similar chances of success, and run it as long as you deem necessary.

Ged

Actually, S, you are using the chemical energy density of hydrogen–that is the energy usually released from reacting it with oxygen (combustion).

Deuterium-tritium fusion has an energy density of 330,000 megajoules per gram. Hydrogen-hydrogen fusion would be on the order of this.

In short, your observations are one of the reasons why chemical reactions are completely ruled out (other than fusion byproducts)–it’s impossible to get this much energy from a hydrogen chemical reaction; but more than so with a fusion reaction, or some other (unknown) nuclear.

(Note for scale, antimatter/matter would be 180,000,000 megajoules per gram)

s

Can someone give me a link to an experiment where Celani gives the hydrogen that was loaded by weight and the claimed excess energy output? Thanks in advance.

Ged

Not sure, S. I saw some posts about updates Celani gave on the process of this current device, but I lost track of them, even after several minutes just spent looking. Hopefully someone will chime in, as I haven’t followed Celani’s work.

Love to see what further calculations you can do with more information.

Ah hm, I see where it talks about loading the wire using a Hydrogen/Argon atmosphere of 75/25% ratio, at 7 bar, but.. I haven’t noticed the volume of the device yet, which we’d need to calculate the actual grams of gas available (and if the device is still loaded with its last gas fill at 7 bar). Maybe we need the molar gas absorption ability of this nickel alloy wire as well (although, the pre-treatment up to 1000 C to burn the wire of impurities also is speculated to have burned out a lot of the copper via oxidation; so possible this would change the hydrogen loading value to an unknown). Not a trivial set of calculations… Wish I had more time.

You’ve got to credit Krivit on that this time!
Others suggested we’ll see more about it on 22passi, though.

georgehants

Ivan you should put your link on the new page as well. many people just follow the latest posts I think. regards.

Ivan Mohorovicic

I tried several times, but unfortunately I’m unable to, as it appears the commenting system takes my link for spam. Please do that in my place.

georgehants

You are right, I just tried and it rejected it.

Robert

I hope we see some really good evidence of of a commercial product not just experiments.we need some serious wattage and some data on how it’s happening with quality measurements and third party confirmation!

http://www.american-reporter.com Joe Shea

You wrote, “[Fleischmann] could have made a World and science changing discovery.” In fact, he did make one.

I wrote a note to the New Yorker today, and left a message on the NY Times Obits desk voicemail. Let’s hope some of these people grow and up and take a look at what’s happening around them!

Dear Larry Jameson:
1- correct
2- we reached with the Hot Cats the temperature of 1 000 Celsius degrees: this makes closer the electric power production. With this temperature we can heat the steam up 600 Celsius, getting high efficiencies. In these very days we are working on it. We got a validation on the Hot Cat : tomorrow we will be working for 24 hours at 1 200 Celsius degrees. Unfortunately I have to invest on this my Summer Holidays…
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Ivan Mohorovicic

“CURES” talked about 1200 Celsius degrees reached weeks ago. It looks like either he is reliable or Rossi is taking inspiration from him.

captain

Yeah, but this time 24 hrs only!

I guess, will that temperature be enough to heat up the snakes bellies, to get them satisfied?
Such big vipers are known to prefer hot climates!

Thanks artefact. This is in fact an excellent schooling of Gibbs in the scientific method. And an unbiased look at Gibbs’ journalistic extremes (Gibbs still looks foolish for publishing the rantings of Dick Smith, Australia’s inventor of — Matches.)

Still, it is clear Gibbs is coached in what to write about LENR. Considering the gravity of Dave Nagel and Patrick Leach’s warning to the petroleum industry Journal of Petroleum Technology – “On the Precipice Of a New Energy Source?” (July 2012) – if Gibbs was on anything but a short short leash, he would’ve mentioned the piece. After all, Forbes claim is it’s “Information for the World’s Business Leaders.” Neglecting to even mention this revealing editorial confirms Gibbs’ role as a cub reporter working the cheap seats.

http://www.shake-speares-bible.com psi

That was always my opinion of him.

Omega Z

Gibbs is probably coached by the Snakevit

I noticed postings by Gibbs around the same period when Gary was posting on that site.

That’s when I quit paying much attention to what Gibbs publishes, because I was of the impression of collusion between him & the snake.

dragonX

Looking at http://www.rossilivecat.com/ I see that Rossi is getting tough question regarding certifications on his blog JONP. His last answer is not at all favorable to ECat certification for 2012 or even 2013.

It looks like we need to get definitive answers on certification and one way for that to happen is for Rossi to just tell us what is happening with the home-unit ECAT (version I – 120 Celsius).

dragonX

To this conclusion from Larry Jameson, Rossi answered with… “CORRECT”:

“Given that the wide and accepted use of industrial e-cats is still likely a couple of years away can we assume that this means the heat generating home e-cat is still one or two years, not months away from being available, or effectively stillborn.”

So the 2012 fall release of the Home Unit E-Cat is canceled… and we enter on indefinite waiting territory for the home-unit.

In my view this is unacceptable. At least now that we know it will be delayed for years, we should ask for more demos and many (real) third party reviews so mainstream media and mainstream science can confirm E-CAT is what Rossi says it is.

daniel maris

As far as I know Rossi’s last subject on this indicated that the home unit might not be on the market until July 2013.

But clearly, we ought to get convincing evidence about the unit before then.

Ged

The topic was “wide and accepted” (industrial e-cats are already for sale, so they are not a couple of years away as a product). I think we are reading too much into Rossi’s one word answer to a very loaded/convoluted question. It will take many years before home e-cats are common (wide and accepted), even if it functions far past our wildest expectations.

http://aotearoaisnotforsale.com Linda

This business about certification requires thorough investigation. The home unit represents by far the greatest threat to vested interest. The 1 megawatt units allow vested interest to retain their monopoly on power generation. I admire Rossi. But I could understand if he were to make a deal with the Devil that would allow him to survive at the expense of our hopes.

I greatly fear that we will never see a certified home unit from Rossi. Someone else will have to do it.

captain

Are U talking of the states?
‘Cause otherwise the world is wide also without US: and as I’ve posted recently, we are living in a global market and the clock will not wait for US certificators decisions, this for sure.
Believe me, Rossi is not stupid. He’ll have to wait here, but not abroad.

http://aotearoaisnotforsale.com Linda

You make a good point. How long can Rossi afford to leave this niche open, before someone else takes it? If he is going to do something on the home units, he had better do it soon.

captain

In EU, actually, Spain and Greece are having terrible economic moments, and a possible ‘relief’ repeat possible relief coming from Rossi’s E-Cats would simply mean a victory, AKA known an almost possible immediate solution to their problems.

In Greece, Defkalion has choosen to go to Canada, and the Greek market is free, with the near Balkans.

As we may see, I didn’t talk of China and/or India and Russia, but … UL certificators and US Patents Office (better say US gov.t) should take that in due consideration.

GreenWin

Is there any official verification (heh heh) of Defkalion going anywhere but to NI-Week??

visotskii is there and since he have tested the reactor (probably about gamma measure at least, if we interpret the leaked photo), we can suspect he will talk of DGT. hope and suspect only.

for kolouris it is official.

Robert Mockan

Actually the greatest threat to vested interests in the status quo is if the secret about how to make the catalyst gets out, so that everybody knows about it, and anybody can make it. If given a choice between regulatory control to prohibit it, and energy independence, there are more than just a few millions of people who will choose freedom.
Certification or not, the secret will be known, and those who delayed this technology will be held accountable.

Omega Z

All we need is 1 Commercial/Industrial unit to be verified & in use. This would confirm everything. It then just becomes a matter of time. 1 year, 3 years, doesn’t matter after that. The cat will be totally out of the bag.

Ged

I looked and I don’t see which answer you are referring to, unfortunately. Can you point out the exact one? I see where he talks about the certification process being slow because the device has to work safely even if the customer does not read any directions, and then more recently about certification not being able to be expedited if the E-cats were on a lease track (which is correct, doesn’t matter if they are leased or sold, for a certification).

They simply prioritise NIweek in Austin (this America continent, which is not worth attention as stated in interview one month back).

Allen McCloud

Translation please?

Pachu

It means they are not going to present 3rd party test results ?

The only hope is Vladimir Vysotskii presentation and maybe others we dont know ?

Ivan Mohorovicic

Koulouris will speak for Defkalion on Monday. I don’t know what supervisor means that he is a “cafe bar owner”. It’s not that actual officers from certificating entities have to be at ICCF-17 to show test results and names.

daniel maris

I still haven’t seen any obituaries in the mainstream press or media for Martin Fleischmann. Has anyone else? Or has he been written out of history?

C.T.

I haven’t seen anything either. Closest thing I’ve seen is on Forbes.com from an article on CF:

Something seems to have gone a little wrong regarding Cold Fusion.
—
Press freedom leads to happiness, environmental quality, MU study finds.
“The road to happiness isn’t direct; it is a complex path or web that includes many different influences and interrelationships,” Tandoc said. “Things like improving the economy alone are insufficient for increasing happiness. Protecting press freedom is also an important component of the happiness web.”
Tandoc also found that countries with higher levels of press freedom enjoyed better environmental quality and higher levels of human development, both of which also contribute to life satisfaction. He credits this to the watchdog function of the press, which helps expose corruption of all levels in a community.
Read all at —http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-08/uom-pfl080612.php

GreenWin

Imagine!

Robert Mockan

An amazing discovery! Press freedom results in an informed population, who can then make decisions about how to achieve happiness.

Duh!

And water is wet.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

I hope these ‘NIWeek’ presentations are to be recorded. Just wondering – does anyone know if highlights or summaries of these conferences are posted online?

Also, Defkalion back on first ICCF-17 day.
Jed Rothwell among speakers too!

artefact

And on Friday: Tyler van Houwelingen YEAAA

Pachu

Aww, it should go first day, they presentation is about actual progress and (i hope) is going to be outdated after comercial attempts be presented on forst days… or not…

artefact

I could imagine that Celani demos the “negative temperature coefficient (PTC)”

Somewhere from 22Passi googletranslated:
“the specific alloy used (Cu-Ni), that usually has Positive Temperature Coefficient (PTC) of the resistance, if absorbs large amount of Hydrogen, changes to Negative TC. Such phenomenon is correlated to anomalous heat production and increases as the anomalous heat increases. If such key phenomenon will be kept under full control, because its behaviour can be observed with simple instrumentation, it can be open the door to systematic work, worldwide, to find the “optimal” material and operating point .
“

AB

Celani said he had a surprise for us at ICC-17

barty

I hope not all italians have the same idea of “surprise” like Daniele Passerini and the last e-cat “suprise”

hammerskoj

I hope this time Celani manages not to stuble on the AC wire, too.

captain

re to george… & Peter
I agree with you that every scientific discovery and/or success is welcome and deserves to be widely made public thru news media! No doubt at all.

Unfortunately the same didn’t occurr with the CF experiments, mainly with the practical positive results got by Rossi’s E-Cat.

because it was the first website I’ve visited to know what was going on abt CF. And what follows, asking kind permission to Frank and Allan, come fron said website:

Help End Heavywatergate and the USPTO Coverup
Ultracorrupt individuals within the US Patent Office and the Board of Patent Appeals and elsewhere continue to cover up cold fusion applications and other alternative energy inventions. They falsely have claimed there is “no utility”. Really? Does anyone reallty believe that lie?
Despite past open demonstrations, and hundreds of peer-reviewed publications, they claim there is no operability. For what reason? Who do they really work for? Write and telephone your Congressperson today and demand that the US Patent Office and other Agencies be investigated by Congress for their systematic coverup of cold fusion applications since March 1989.
Please consider helping today, before another day passes with the current energy problem, and the absolute lack of interest in actually solving the problem which Washington, DC, the federal government, and the USPTO have shown for two decades on this subject.
Remind them all that the USPTO has refused Free of Information Act (FOIA) requests by falsely purporting that the “public has no interest”
Remind them that the obviously corrupt USPTO Examiners and Judges dare purport that there is “no utlility” to the science and engineering of cold fusion – the technology of ultraclean, highly efficient alternative energy.

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK
CLEAN, EFFICIENT ENERGY
PRODUCTION?
‘HEAVYWATERGATE’ MEANS IT IS ‘NOT FOR YOU’ in the USA!!
……………………………….

AMERICAN DOE/USPTO/APS COVERUP CONTINUES
DOE CONTINUES HEAVYWATERGATE(for the Enemies of the USA)
CLEAN, EFFICIENT ENERGY PRODUCTION?
‘HEAVYWATERGATE’ MEANS ‘NOT FOR YOU’!!
HEAVYWATERGATE CONTINUES
November 2010 – The American Institute of Physics (AIP) broke its signed Agreement to publish an LANR/CF/LENR book —
Then, after the book was written, assembled, prepared, formated, given an ISBN number, assigned a publishing date and more than $5000 taken by AIP (since returned but with the Agreement and AIP credibility shattered).
As of February 2011, AIP has continued their breach — and also has just reportedly screwed a second organization, SPESIF 2011 for the same “crime” – studying, and daring to report on the physics and metallurgy of deuterided alloys with respect to their thermal and spectroscopic emissions.

and lately this one is mainly devoted to practical operations with Rossi’s E-Cat LENR, among the other,,,

Tough being not a professional in this field, I appreciate very much the efforts of both links in going on with complete news on LENR, or CF.

Unfortunately, except a few Italian medias (CF speaks Italian, mainly) there’s nothing else of positive in the web, but Rossi’s own sites.

About ‘corrupt scientists’ and/or corruption in offices where patents/brevets are granted, not granted, or worse inherent documents buried/lost/left unread/forgotten, … think what you like to think, and believe it or not. The reality remains reality, and the silence speaks by itself.

captain

For the sake of completeness in my previous post, I mention the sites I usually visit, inherent to CF/LENR/E-Cat

Lu, ran out of space below. You said.
–
Lu on August 6, 2012 at 12:28 pm
We are living in a wonderful world, George.
That’s not to say there isn’t injustice in it but a determined and capable person can do whatever they want. Look at Rossi as a good example. Just don’t expect the world to always react like you think it should. Reality is what it is.

georgehants

Lu, thank you, I am determined and capable, many in the World are not, or do not have the chances I have had and rely on Democracy that pays it’s leaders to do the best for them and society.
You are saying the strongest survive.
I disagree and believe that the strongest should use their gifts to the best of their ability to help the less fortunate.
It is not luck where the World goes but the decisions of the rich and powerful.
Do you think that they should use their positions not solely for themselves and their ilk, but for the good of humanity in general

Lu

Why is it either/or? Do you think Rossi is working for his benefit or humanity’s? Rossi has stated that he wants to model his company after Micro$oft. (Microsoft raped and pillaged the software industry but now Bill and Linda Gates are plowing a portion back into society.) What about Elon Musk? Do you think he is working for the benefit of mankind or because he likes what he is doing? What about the young Einstein?

People should behave in a moral fashion but they are not completely responsible for the consequences of their actions or efforts.

I’m not saying the strongest survive (please don’t put words into my mouth or simplify what I’ve said) although I will say that the strongest tend to survive. I’m saying that we do not live in as an oppressed world as you make it out to be and we cannot just wish for something and assume it is possible and that there are evil doers keeping it from happening. It certainly OK to imagine a better world because we certainly can move toward it but there is always conflicting interests to contend with.

Look at Rossi. For all his protestations about Snakes and Puppets, my view is that he is operating very much like a scammer and rightly or wrongly people have very good reasons to be skeptical about his motives.

Stanny Demesmaker

Can you elaborate on what actions he looks like a scammer ?
I heard this alot but I am searching on what they exactly mean. People are always complaining about a lack of transparancy, but the only people he has to convince are his investors/business partners. And that’s working very well for him. All the rest is noise. After the collaboration with NI, Ni suddenly starts investing in CF. If that’s not the evidence you need to be convinced what will?

BTW Scammers don’t let movietape their actions.

Lu

Stanny, You bring up good points but they’ve been discussed ad nauseum before. You shouldn’t have any problem finding other sites where this has been brought up.

georgehants

Thank you Lu, How can you prejudge —
–Will Rossi work for humanity, certainly his breakthrough, (if legit) will and in 20 years we can judge him, not before.
–Are you condoning people, “not working in a moral fashion”.
–I would not dream of putting words in your Mouth, that is not my intent as I feel I can discuss any subject, cleanly and openly without such tactics and apologise if you think I am, I will try harder not to.
–You give some examples of people doing good, that is admirable, but they no longer need convincing, I am concerned about the others who only care for themselves.
–Only a Paradigm (horrible word) shift will change society and excepting things the way they are, will not change them.
–Easy for us to except things but if one of us is a Father or Mother in a bad place and have to watch ones children suffer, not so easy.
The responsibility I think, lies with every one of us to work together for the World and not just ourselves.

Andrew Macleod

Extremism is a horrible plight on humanity… Being sceptical is one thing but what Krivit/Gary Wight is doing is wrong. They have come to a conclusion long ago that Rossi is a fraud and are only looking for evidence to support their claim. Believers look for evidence to justify their beliefs but stay open minded to the possibility of fraud. When you look for evidence to support your belief you will find it. By staying open minded you then have the ability view ALL the evidence from both sides. Extremism= Horseblinders

georgehants

Just interesting —-
–
“Pants on fire” isn’t the only problem liars face. New research from the University of Notre Dame shows that when people managed to reduce their lies in given weeks across a 10-week study, they reported significantly improved physical and mental health in those same weeks.
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2012-08-lies-linked-health-relationships.html#jCp

georgehants

What a Wonderful attitude against the scientific know all’s.
—
Andrea Rossi
August 6th, 2012 at 6:08 AM
Dear Dr Joseph Fine:
I will always find the time to answer to this blog: for me it is school.
Warm Regards,
A.

Andrea Rossi
August 6th, 2012 at 6:06 AM
Dear Dr Enrico Billi:
The research of Fleischmann and Pons has started my research and also the research of Sergio Focardi.
Warm Regards,
A.R.

Lu

Congratulations to NASA for their truly remarking engineering achievement in landing the 2000 lb Curiosity safely on the surface of Mars.

A very interesting component and relevant to the E-CAT is the power generator which is a classical Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator (RTG). The RTG uses for its heat source plutonium-238 dioxide which one can imagine potentially can be replaced by a LENR based device. This heat is converted into electricity using the Seebeck affect. For this system, it takes 2000 watts of heat to make 125 watts of electricity and will generate up to 2.5kWhs per day (not sure if that is Mars or Earth day!)

georgehants

Lu, do you not think what a wonderful World if scientists where allowed to investigate every unknown subject, openly and freely, subjects like Cold Fusion.
Do you think there is any excuse for not powering ahead with any unknown science.

Lu

Don’t throw the baby out with the bath water…

georgehants

Lu, you did not answer my question.

Lu

George, It wasn’t really a question.

georgehants

Lu. let me try and put it as a question —-
—
Lu, do you not think what a wonderful World if scientists where allowed to investigate every unknown subject, openly and freely, subjects like Cold Fusion.
Do you think there is any excuse for not powering ahead with any unknown science.

Lu

We are living in a wonderful world, George.

That’s not to say there isn’t injustice in it but a determined and capable person can do whatever they want. Look at Rossi as a good example. Just don’t expect the world to always react like you think it should. Reality is what it is.

GreenWin

Hi Lu, I would hazard “reality” is a myth humans are just beginning to recognize.

Chris

He who pays the musicians calls the tune….

georgehants

Chris. as it is mainly taxpayers paying, you agree they should call the tune.
What do you suggest, as I have below that a committee should be set up to take decisions out of the hands of science as they clearly do not have a clue what most people want.

Chris

Correction: it is taxpayers’ money that politician’s are paying.

Also, I don’t know if the brunt of people are already marching in the streets in support of LENR, I think they are mostly squealing about chemtrails these days, or homeopathy, or whatever. Would it really be better if they decided about research funding?

Anyway, that wasn’t your own point, if you want what you said initially you would have to give researchers what funding they ask for, without conditions on what they use it for, without them having to beg for it. Wouldn’t that be great.

Barry

Wait, you mean some musicians actually get paid?

daniel maris

They would have done better running out some photovoltaic panels – they have worked exceptionally well on Mars. But yes – a fantastic achievement by NASA.

That said, I think Space X will find a cheaper and easier way of doing it – and getting people there.

Lu

I’m very impressed with Elon Musk. He wants to do something, he does it.

vbasic

This NIWeek conference is stunning in its implications for acceptance of LENR. Since NI sells to standard commercial, scientific and engineering companies and institutions, the last thing they want to be associated with is some shady, fake or scam operations. So although they may not see the complete inner workings of the competing devices, they might see enough to tell them all is good. Although some of their standard customers might be scratching their heads in disbelief, others might be ready to open their minds.

Ged

You are completely right on.

So can’t wait to see the content of these presentations. Since this isn’t an LENR conference, the crowd is going to be tough, so there’s gotta be some rock solid data and methods or they’ll be eaten alive. The fact NI approved their presentations though, already bespeaks the quality.

Iggy, hopefully saying, what a wonderful World and everything is Quantum.

daniel maris

“But actually there’s nothing supernatural going on here. Modern physicists have realised that a complete description of thermodynamics must include an assessment of the order and disorder in the system, in other words of the information it contains.”

That’s OK then…

Chris

Indeed, Maxwell’s Demon is none other than the nexus between thermodynamic and information entropy. That’s why the 2nd principle is based on statmech.

Chris

Oh how much confusion still reigns over Maxwell’s Demon. The way the article and the one it links to describe it, it would seem as if the authors of the first one have really done nothing new and nothing to get worked up about, and the one you link to neglects there could never be coherence in the boxes of gas.

Instead, Ken Funo et al. are talking about qubits, not gasses, and they seem to know what they are talking about. However, while I’m no expert on progress in quantum computing, I remain doubtful of this thing ever coming to have any more practical import than negatemperatures. I found it disappointing when I saw this web site is published by MIT after seeing what a hash they make.

GreenWin

Gee, we have to CHANGE our LAWS???

EPR systems are tons of fun. Ironically most are employed in QKD comms to prevent “evesdropping” – a staple of this fishbowl world. MIT escapees at MagiQ build a little photon generator for these boring apps. Far more fun is co-located intelligence leveraging spooky-action at a distance. Or better yet, an EPR ‘time machine’ sensor able to measure future events. Very helpful if you’re headed to the track:))

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

Sorry George – have to (partially) disagree. Whatever the motives for the NASA Mars mission, the successful landing of the Curiosity rover is an amazing human achievement, and may help to raise the awareness of many. Anything that helps people see beyond their tiny worlds to new possibilities must be a good thing.

The cost in terms of the resources available to humanity is negligible and in no way robs from Fleishmann’s achievement or the realisation of his dreams. ‘NIWeek’ may be a turning point, or (more likely in my opinion) may pass unnoticed in the MM, but it is another step in the right direction. Sooner or later the dam has to burst.

EDIT: This was meant to be in reply to Georgehants below, but has appeared in the wrong place as usual.

georgehants

Morning Peter, as you know I applaud any advance including men on Mars, I think I was more comparing the hype and publicity connected to an establishment backed venture and Cold Fusion, with it’s World changing possibilities + (maybe) a fifth force.
To me the Mars successes leaves a bitter taste, as one cannot choose by incompetence and Dogma alone which areas to promote and which to debunk and ignore.
Every possible advance should be put in the pot and debated openly by capable open-minded, intelligent members of an outside agency designed to restore some sanity to science.
Mars is important, so is Cold Fusion, Telepathy, OBE’s, UFO’s, the Placebo Effect and many more scientific subjects with at least as much potential as finding bugs on Mars.
Giordano Bruno was burnt for saying god has put many other worlds around the stars, he again has been vindicated, but the Catholic church pardoning Galileo for publicity, ignores Bruno because he is less well known.
–
It is proof of a base and low mind for one to wish to think with the masses or majority, merely because the majority is the majority. Truth does not change because it is, or is not, believed by a majority of the people.
Giordano Bruno

It may be you fear more to deliver judgment upon me than I fear judgment.
Giordano Bruno

Admin, things have got a bit messy here – any chance of putting the posts in the right order and indent please?

Edit: Something is going wrong – this was meant to appear under GH’s post of 9:41.

georgehants

Sorry Peter everything is ending up in moderation, have replied, should come up later.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

Hi George – can’t see it yet (11:14). Seems there may be some issues.

Edit – I took very great care to click the right ‘Reply’ button (under George’s ‘moderation’ comment) but it has still ended up in the wrong place.

georgehants

Peter, all been cleared now.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

George – I agree it is more or less a ‘given’ these days that the MSM will only cover ‘sanctioned’ topics and will ignore everything else. The only question I suppose is whether this is as a result of individual corruption and human weakness in general, as I think is largely the case in the refusal of the scientific establishment to take on board any ideas that challenge their dogma, or something much more organised and sinister.

The ‘reasons’ sometimes offered in support of the former idea (in the case of the MSM) seem to me to be entirely inadequate, leaving the latter as the current ‘best fit’ explanation. It will be interesting to see whether anything of NIWeek gets reported in the MSM, particularly in popular science rags and by television and newspaper science correspondents – and pretty much conclusive proof of a deliberate and co-ordinated blackout of CF news if it doesn’t.

GreenWin

“…scientific subjects with at least as much potential as finding bugs on Mars.”

Peter Roe on August 6, 2012 at 9:02 am
Sorry George – have to (partially) disagree. Whatever the motives for the NASA Mars mission, the successful landing of the Curiosity rover is an amazing human achievement, and may help to raise the awareness of many. Anything that helps people see beyond their tiny worlds to new possibilities must be a good thing. …………

Sorry Peter, but me too have to partially disagree with you.
The reason? Simple: since F&P experiment in 1989, 23 yrs ago, how the whole world could have benefited fm an earlier practical LERN discovery, say Rossi’s E-Cat, if the US govt had not practically killed F&P credibility?
20 yrs lost with all bad consequences, that’s the point IMHO.

Sorry if a little bit OT with NI subject.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

Captain, I take your point, which I assume is also George’s. However mine is that although NASA may be involved in both chemical rocketry and CF, there is virtually no connection between the two at the level concerned.

It is clearly true that corrupt ‘scientists’ (they don’t deserve the title) succeeded in suppressing CF for at least 23 years, and that the lost opportunities and direct consequences of that are terrible. But it seems to me that the engineers and scientists who have managed to land their machine on an alien world probably have little or no knowledge of any alternatives to chemical rockets, due to the overwhelming effectiveness of the suppression process, and should not be castigated for the evil acts of others.

georgehants

Peter have replied, but it is waiting moderation, must be the massive insults I have aimed at you, or maybe Giordano. Ha.
I think Frank is out, so could be a long wait.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

Looks like Admin has mostly fixed things now, although the edit screen can be very slow loading. It looks like your massive insults and my equally devastating reply must have been deleted as they don’t seem to be visible! Shame – now the world will never know what a treat it has missed.

georgehants

Thank you Captain and Peter my reply was the one full of Giordano Bruno, above. posterity is saved.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

OK, I may have been exaggerating a little!

GreenWin

Peter, “MM” or people pretending to be journalists, have strict orders to pay no attention to anything LENR. The one or two guys cleared to talk are Gibbs at Forbes and maybe someone at Wired UK. Both are ordered to follow the approved script addressing the Brookings-like fears of sector panic at full disclose. Probably a good idea if you’ve ever watched a herd of sheep (being Brit I’ll assume you have.)

You are correct in acknowledging the new rover. They are cool and spark human imagination. One of the more fascinating issues in technology transfer is how to achieve it without spooking the primitives – or creating a covert fiefdom that becomes utterly corrupt. Too abrupt, you get panic and witch burning (Fleischmann & Pons.) Too big a leap – you get hostility.

The NASA planetary missions are timed well to reinforce the fact we’re (going) to Mars sooner than later. And, lo and behold, there may be life there! Hubble likewise has been a resounding success in visualizing our universe. Missing has been the message there’s plenty for everyone.

One glitch in your argument re. technology introduction – you have to be able to understand how novel a new thing is before it can come as much of a shock. You can only have your paradigm shattered if you have one in the first place. If someone has difficulty with understanding any technology more complicated than a hammer, then an antigravity disk or a teleport booth is probably no more surprising than an i-phone. For such an individual, the workings of any high tech device are so far out of their comprehension that all they want to know is what can you do with it, how much and does it come in pink?

Perception management is now so sophisticated that virtually anything short of a fully functioning android (or maybe, including) would simply be absorbed, given the right management, especially if it can be used to entertain in some way or make life even more comfortable. I think possibly you don’t fully appreciate the sheer dull-eyed, unquestioning ignorance and unremitting stupidity of a good proportion of the human race and the microscopic, shallow, pop culture, logo-driven worlds they live in.

And yes, you’re right, I’ve had a bad day.

GreenWin

Ah, and on that note I shall return to the couch with my fembot, Twinkies, and “Milky Way’s Got Talent!”

You should be on holiday Peter!!

captain

GreenWin on August 6, 2012 at 6:24 pm
Peter, “MM” or people pretending to be journalists, have strict orders to pay no attention to anything LENR
……………………………….

E-Cat World | Following the Low Energy Nuclear Reaction Revolution
at 1st place now as now

AstralProjectee

Oh boy, can’t wait.

georgehants

NASA are using the Mars venture as publicity to try and recover public interest, to keep the dollars rolling in.
The media follow the establishment like sheep.
Yet they cannot find time to give a word on the passing of a man, who could have made a World and science changing discovery.
What is more important, a camera on Mars (as interesting as that is) or Cold Fusion that could enhance and save the lives of millions.
Here’s hoping this next two months lead to something substantial to move the P&F effect forward.

GreenWin

George we need no further evidence than the ordered refusal to acknowledge Dr. Fleischmann. Occupying armies do this to avoid martyrdom.

http://www.health-answers.co.uk Peter Roe

Its pretty astonishing – apart from Forbes Magazine, the Salt Lake Tribune (all speed to them) and a brief mention in Wikipedia, I can’t find any mention of Martin Fleishmann’s death (let alone any tributes) outside the LENR blogs and derived posts. It seems that there are not too many shreds of decency left in the establishment world.