Why push for censure if it isn't going to accomplish anything very much? Bush isn't running again, thus he'd be a lame duck whether he gets censured or not, Senate/Congress/SCOTUS is already on his side--so what would it accomplish long-term?

the US doesn't recognize the world court for the reason that Bush, Cheney, Rummie, Condi, and Powell can be tried for war crimes. At the very least the American people can teach history that this behavior WILL NOT BE TOLERATED!!!

The main thing, I think, is public and legislative awareness. Bush will not be any wiser because of it, that's a given. I think this makes people aware, makes them talk, starts a groundswell of support that can be used later for impeachment. In means nothing legally, of course, but it means a hell of a lot emotionally for all of us who are sick of this bastard's evil and illegal ways.

I thought he could wiretap for any reason...or were there certain circumstances when he could waive the laws about it, or what? Given all the media has said about this, I don't have it straight in my head. And this is about wiretapping people talking overseas? (ostensibly talking with muslim 'terrorists')? Did it involve people talking to others inside the USA? And does that matter?

during overseas phone calls. And no one is saying there should be a law to prevent that or that this is anything but a very good idea. It's the fact that he admitted he skirted the laws "because they would slow their investigations down" that really got to me. The laws state that he can do whatever wiretapping he wants to do as long as he has a warrant. And he can get that warrant up to 72 hours after the actual wiretapping. So how the hell does that slow him down?

1. people in the USA2. "ostensibly talking with muslim terrorists"3. without following the law and getting permission to wiretap?

--------Now, to reply to your questions.It is the law that anyone, even the president, must get permission to wiretap. There is a way for the president to get permission, the president has never been denied permission, yet he chose to not ask permission and just do it. Does that matter to you?

"we are at war". Now, who declared war? And even if we were at war, he still has to follow the law.

Asking again, do you think it is ok to wiretap:

1. people in the USA2. "ostensibly talking with muslim terrorists"3. without following the law and getting permission to wiretap?

It is the law that anyone, even the president, must get permission to wiretap. There is a way for the president to get permission, the president has never been denied permission, yet he chose to not ask permission and just do it. Does that matter to you?

1. people in the USA2. "ostensibly talking with muslim terrorists"3. without following the law and getting permission to wiretap?

It is the law that anyone, even the president, must get permission to wiretap. There is a way for the president to get permission, the president has never been denied permission, yet he chose to not ask permission and just do it. Does that matter to you?

1. people in the USA--no, the law has to be followed. We are a nation of laws that we're guaranteed. They can't simply be jettisoned.

2. "ostensibly talking with muslim terrorists"--I might be willing to accept a deviation from the law IF there was enough proof, and IF something as serious as 9/11 were going to happen. However, I don't think the gov. COULD be that sure, so this would be a slippery slope, so no.

3. without following the law and getting permission to wiretap?--no, laws must be followed with ALL American citizens.

It paves the way for future presidents to interpret their powers as widely as this asshat does. Censure would call him on his crimes. (Of course, the next logical step would be to try him and remove him from office.)

Calls from Americans to Americans... there were no international calls, no calls from suspected al Qaeda members... just Quakers and normal old everyday run of the mill Americans. That is against the law. FCC laws state you cannot listen in without a warrant, you cannot tape a conversation on the telephone unless the other person is aware it is being taped, or you have a warrant. Its all very simple, really. He broke the law. He thinks he is above the law. He needs smacked down.

That's right. Peaceniks. Pacifist peaceniks. Someone you could trust with your life... or the life of your child... and they are on the list. Stupid, isn't it? That bit of info might lead one to believe they are spying on anyone who refuses to drink the Kool Aid.

Since he made the play we need to show some unity. I would probably not have been in favor of the censure for the reasons you site plus the fact it will distract the public from issues we are clearly kicking ass on now and lead to some distate among disenchanted repukes who still love then some dubya but think he is off-track.

People come here with the purpose of disrupting, not discussing, learning about or working on issues. Saying you did not post something you did, and refusing to give your opinion on hot topics does not build trust.

The emphasis you're putting on this is ridiculous. The page your link led to the first 3 times I went there did not show my post--it just showed a page full of 'latest' or whatever--NOT under my name. And I most certainly DID give my opinion on this issue of censure once I understood what was involved. You folks need to get a grip.

You need to learn to deal with your anger issues--and not take them out on people you don't know on a message board. I know potshots like that may be fun for you to do, but you're only hurting the Democratic party by being so petty. Learn how to be a community BUILDER.

And no I fucking didn't. It was stupid-ass shit. Cheating on his wife is between him and his wife. He didn't fuck the American PEOPLE over the way bush has been and IS doing now.

My God, that was the biggest fucking waste of time and taxpayer money I have EVER seen in my life. How did that blowjob hurt you? Or anyone else but his wife?

bush lies, people die.

If there were justice in the world, Clinton (and the rest of the US) would have never been put through all that and bush and his cronies would be frog-marched out of the White House for taking a massive shit on the US Constitution.

81. Why push for *anything*? Lets all just sit on our hands and do nothing.

Edited on Wed Mar-15-06 09:35 PM by w4rma

Eventually voters will notice how bad things are and will wake up and realize on their own that Republicans have total power so voters should start voting for the other party. You know, that invisible party that hasn't been doing or saying anything.

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