If the HD UI is a significant factor in your purchase decision, you may wish to hold off for several updates. The current HD UI software is incomplete and relatively slow. The SD UI is much more responsive, but lacks some UI features of your Sony.

The HD UI should be more responsive once TiVo implements some caching and enables the second processor core. The Premiere has a dual-core processor, but TiVo disabled the second core in Linux because it caused instability under the current version of the software.

As opposed to the number of lockups being reported on TCF with the HDUI right now? If they're having these problems with single core, I could only imagine how bad it would be with dual.

I'm just amazed how buggy and incomplete this software release is - they must have been desperate to get these boxes out on the market, for cash flow or whatever reasons. What is the average non-Tivo user going to think about Tivo after he picks up his first Premiere at Best Buy and encounters these issues? He doesn't know anything about HD vs. SD UI...

Its good to know that even if i buy a tivo at best buy ,i can still get the 3 year warranty from tivo! I just wish the premiere didnt have all these early problems.I just switched to verizon fios from directv,and i was hoping my wife would hate the verizon dvr.But damm she seems to like it so far,she usually hates trying anything new with electronics. I thought it would be easier to convince her to get the tivo premiere xl!, NOW the only way i can convince her is by telling her about the 150 hours recording space with the tivo xl. But i dont want to buy it until the bugs are worked out,otherwise i know my wife will return it within 30 days if she has problems with the tivo box. I hope the verizon box starts to miss up so she''ll want to switch to tivo.

I suspect they looked into their crystal balls 12 months ago and tried to time the lead time for manufacturing the boxes with development of the software. Looks like for whatever reasons, the software development has lagged behind schedule. Meanwhile the hardware timeline was chugging along -- they stopped production of the HD while the Premier was being tooled up. They ended up with a bunch of Premier boxes in a warehouse in December (per bfdtv's comment) without usable software and a dwindling inventory of HD boxes to sell. They probably had the software guys stop where they were with the HD UI, only activate the part that was stable then switch focus to make sure the SD UI was fully functional so they could start getting boxes out the door. I would not expect the software to be fixed very rapidly -- it may take a year of updates before the HD UI is fully developed.

People who buy now are early adopters. Patience must be the mantra. TiVo will fix, it just will take a while.

- kelson h

The bitterness of poor quality lasts long after the sweetness of the low price is forgotten . . . life is too short to drink bad wine

If the HD UI is a significant factor in your purchase decision, you may wish to hold off for several updates. The current HD UI software is incomplete and relatively slow. The SD UI is much more responsive, but lacks some UI features of your Sony.

The HD UI should be more responsive once TiVo implements some caching and enables the second processor core. The Premiere has a dual-core processor, but TiVo disabled the second core in Linux because it caused instability under the current version of the software.

Thie HD Wishlist will be important AND the improved OTA reception will be the most important to me.

Thanks, I did note that it had comp. out. My question was whether the software supports output to a recorder at the same time you are watching or otherwise using the Tivo. My SA8300 DVR lets you copy a recorded program to a recorder while watching/recording, etc. something else on the DVR.

Quote:

Originally Posted by moxie1617

It has composite outs but they dropped the s-video out. Pictures and specs can be found in the 1st post.

Thanks, I did note that it had comp. out. My question was whether the software supports output to a recorder at the same time you are watching or otherwise using the Tivo. My SA8300 DVR lets you copy a recorded program to a recorder while watching/recording, etc. something else on the DVR.

No. Just like with Previous tiVos, it's using one MPEG decoder(unless the Premiere has two and they are only using one)

When you output to a DVD burner or a VCR, you cannot watch anything else since it can only decode one stream.

For me i just transfer to a PC with TiVo Desktop. Then I can burn it to a BD or transfer to a media player.

With the new Premieres this process is much faster than recording from the TiVo with a standalone DVD burner which is recording in realtime.
With the old boxes, the transfer rate to the PC was much slower. So it would take longer than using a standalone burner.

Thanks, that's the info I wanted. I need to burn DVDs but it seems transferring to a PC would be fine for me as long as it can be done fairly quickly and by wifi.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronwt

No. Just like with Previous tiVos, it's using one MPEG decoder(unless the Premiere has two and they are only using one)

When you output to a DVD burner or a VCR, you cannot watch anything else since it can only decode one stream.

For me i just transfer to a PC with TiVo Desktop. Then I can burn it to a BD or transfer to a media player.

With the new Premieres this process is much faster than recording from the TiVo with a standalone DVD burner which is recording in realtime.
With the old boxes, the transfer rate to the PC was much slower. So it would take longer than using a standalone burner.

Everything on the Premiere is faster than it was with the S3/TiVoHD.
I have nine S3/TiVoHD boxes(eight are being used right now) and eight Premiere boxes(7 are being used right now.). All the Premieres are noticeably faster.

I have my Series3 set to native video output and use a DVDO Edge to upconvert/scale the signal. As a result, it takes a few seconds when I change channels if the signal output is different from the previous channel. Can you tell me if the channel changing is faster on the new Premier's in this scenario (if you have tried it)?

I have my Series3 set to native video output and use a DVDO Edge to upconvert/scale the signal. As a result, it takes a few seconds when I change channels if the signal output is different from the previous channel. Can you tell me if the channel changing is faster on the new Premier's in this scenario (if you have tried it)?

This is what I mostly use since I use a DVDO DUO at my main setup. The channel change seems to be the same as with my S3/TiVoHD boxes. It takes half a second to 1.5 seconds to resync to the new resolution in my setup.

I have FiOS 25/15, but I doubt it would matter much. Netflix only uses 3.8Mbps for its 720p HD content. Netflix recommends that users have at least 1.5x that (i.e. 5+ Mbps) for reliable HD streaming.

The bandwidth requirements may go up slightly when Netflix adds Dolby Digital 5.1 and closed captioning this summer.

Cnet and other sites initially reported that 1080p streaming was on the roadmap for 2010, but later issued retractions after Netflix said that was an error in the document. Maybe in 2011?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonPerson

When you select “Lost” from Netflix and you what to watch a specific season and episode from the beginning of a show…………about how long does it take to start the show?

Looking at the video in the first post, it took 8-9 seconds.

The TiVo Premiere is currently using the same HME Netflix application as the TivoHD and Series3. The application is written to the capabilities of those platforms; i.e. it can't take advantage of the Premiere's superior network throughput.

All tested on a 100Mbps ethernet network. Only one of the Premiere's two processor cores is enabled.

TiVo told me the Netflix experience would improve when that application is replaced with an enhanced Flash version created specifically for the Premiere. I got the impression that would happen later this year.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonPerson

Thie HD Wishlist will be important AND the improved OTA reception will be the most important to me.

How will I be able to tell when the boxes have that built in?

The TiVo Premiere downloads the latest software as part of the setup process and checks for new software every night.

I suppose you'll just have to click this thread (or the first post) periodically to see when more of the interface is updated for HD. Currently, the SD wishlist interface is displayed when you select that feature from the HD interface.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

Same here, but only one Sony.

The only complaint I really have is I preferred the 480i handling of the Sony (as I still do watch plenty of that). But it's not like it's bad or anything. Just a bit better with the Sony, and I'm a stickler for that kind of thing.

Both analog SD picture quality and SD->HD scaling is improved on the Premiere, thanks to newer components. As for whether the Premiere's SD scaling performance matches the Sony, I couldn't say.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rammitinski

even just simpler stuff like the "Wishlist", which I'd never in a hundred years have any use for - I was never the type to automatically want to watch something just because "so-and-so" is in it), I still do relish having the two, newer generation tuners.

The real power in wishlists is the ability to setup custom series recordings. If you watch any yearly or seasonal events (like college or pro sports), it is a great feature. I assume you saw the examples in the TivoHD wishlist tips post.

Of course, if you just want to create and save advanced searches to see what's on in the next 12 days, wishlists allow you to do that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BIGA$$TV

Thanks, that's the info I wanted. I need to burn DVDs but it seems transferring to a PC would be fine for me as long as it can be done fairly quickly and by wifi.

You will need wireless N, wired ethernet, or some alternative such as MoCA (ethernet over coax) if you want to download recordings quickly. Traditional 802.11g is too slow when you're talking about about the multi-gigabyte recorded files on the Premiere.

As an aside, I updated the first post with new screenshots taken from my box.

Your answers have been very helpful and filled in a lot of the blanks.

One major problem at my location is solid, reliable, internet. So far neither AT&T nor Comcast have provided that. I wonder if these things work well with Verizon Wireless Internet access as an ISP? I have not checked into the speeds they offer? If it is even available here?

Assuming I do get some sort of future DVR solution and because we use Netflix (it always works because we are not dependent on the internet or cable), then I would hope someday they could get to BD Picture and HD Audio. With just 720p picture and low quality sound is not encouraging. I see a lot of people complaining about picture and sound with Netflix downloads via the movie reviews on their website. The 8-9 second delay to start a movie is really not a big deal to us, gives us time to get the movie room ready just like we do now for BD. So I just assume Netflix should be working on something to keep the BD peeps happy?

That's good to know that wishlist is available via the current HD menus, so that would work for me. I also see they also have a HD Grid as well - wonder if the HD Grid shows red dots (or some mark) for things set up to record? I see that HD Grid is 3 columns wide. I think the newer Rovi Grids (I have no idea when or if it gets here) is 5 or 6 cells wide, I think? The Grid is great because if it is built right you can see the entire evening and know is less that a second what is going on. Like in a 3 hour period what are we recording and what are we watching all on one screen (with 6 column grid by 12 to 18 channels deep).

>>Of course, if you just want to create and save advanced searches to see what's on in the next 12 days, wishlists allow you to do that too.that is exactly how I use the Sony Keyword (save lists searches)- so that works for me.

If I understand Season Pass correctly? I would be able to say Record all the new CSI: NY for the upcoming season, and the box will take care of it? Even with changing start and stop times (and days) as long as it is on the same channel? If that is a true statement then that would eliminate about 70% of my Sony Keyword search; and then I would use wishlists to accomplish the rest.

This is what I mostly use since I use a DVDO DUO at my main setup. The channel change seems to be the same as with my S3/TiVoHD boxes. It takes half a second to 1.5 seconds to resync to the new resolution in my setup.

One major problem at my location is solid, reliable, internet. So far neither AT&T nor Comcast have provided that. I wonder if these things work well with Verizon Wireless Internet access as an ISP? I have not checked into the speeds they offer? If it is even available here?

I can't imagine wireless Internet would be any better. Still, the bandwidth requirements of Netflix are fairly low, so I don't think most with >6 Mbps service have a problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonPerson

I see a lot of people complaining about picture and sound with Netflix downloads via the movie reviews on their website. The 8-9 second delay to start a movie is really not a big deal to us, gives us time to get the movie room ready just like we do now for BD. So I just assume Netflix should be working on something to keep the BD peeps happy?

Netflix titles are currently available only in stereo sound. The addition of Dolby Digital 5.1 should improve the experience this summer. Still, the video is encoded at low-bitrate 720p, so it won't look anything like a Blu-ray disk on a larger TV. We can only hope that Netflix adds 1080p streaming sooner rather than later. Higher quality will require more Internet bandwidth to support it.

The best HD streaming service available is Vudu's HDX (pay-per-view), which offers 8+Mbps 1080p24 with 640Kbps Dolby Digital. It would be great to see TiVo support that service, but they have not announced any plans to do so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonPerson

That's good to know that wishlist is available via the current HD menus, so that would work for me. I also see they also have a HD Grid as well - wonder if the HD Grid shows red dots (or some mark) for things set up to record?

There is no HD EPG (grid) yet. Users still see the same decade-old SD EPG with 90 minutes of information and no record indicators for future programs. TiVo told me they were working on new HD versions of the channel banners and EPG, but did not give a timetable on when those would be available.

I would like to see a new EPG comparable to the new three-hour HD EPG on the Dish Network ViP922. Screenshot of that here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoustonPerson

If I understand Season Pass correctly? I would be able to say Record all the new CSI: NY for the upcoming season, and the box will take care of it? Even with changing start and stop times (and days) as long as it is on the same channel?

Yes on all counts. The available options for each season pass are below:

Click for high-resolution version.

If buying the Premiere for the HDUI, my recommendation is still to wait until that software is more mature. That could be three months or it could be a year. We don't know at this point.

For now, I've switched back to the classic interface because that is much more responsive on the Premiere.

Thanks, I did note that it had comp. out. My question was whether the software supports output to a recorder at the same time you are watching or otherwise using the Tivo. My SA8300 DVR lets you copy a recorded program to a recorder while watching/recording, etc. something else on the DVR.

The Tivo HD outputs are simultaneously live. I would expect the Premiere would also although the first page FAQ does not explicitly say so, at least I did not see it.
Note: looked again and did see that the Premier outputs are simultaneously active.

My Tivo HD connects to the TV with HDMI (via a Monoprice HDMI switcher/splitter). The component output feeds the Hauppauge HD DVR connected to a computer via USB providing a means to archive Tivo recordings to the computer and from there to a WDTV live Media server for play back to the TV and over the network.
This method works well but is slow because recordings (or live) record in real time whereas using KMttg with a Premier would be much faster. But this is not an option for me since TWC sets the 'copy never' flag on virtually every cable program.

I am trying to change the channel banner from the default to the banner across the top of the screen. When I do this it doesn't seem to stay. Is it supposed to be a permanent change once you set this to one of the three options?

I just tried it again and now my change seems to stay around. Before, after a period of time it reverted to the default, larger banner that takes up a good portion of the screen. But even if this time it keeps the banner I have selected; it is still the case that when I press the info key that I continue to get the larger banner.

Thie HD Wishlist will be important AND the improved OTA reception will be the most important to me.

How will I be able to tell when the boxes have that built in?

I second the part about OTA reception. I'm deep-fringe OTA-only, and tuner/decoder performance is of paramount importance to me. I intend to wait (as bfdtv suggested) for the OTA issues to be resolved before I upgrade to Premier.

What worries me is that it seems tuner/decoder performance would be primarily a hardware issue. Is it realistic to expect better OTA reception to result from firmware upgrades? I hope so, because otherwise I'll be waiting for the next hardware upgrade. OTA viewers, please keep those comments coming. Thanks.

I second the part about OTA reception. I'm deep-fringe OTA-only, and tuner/decoder performance is of paramount importance to me. I intend to wait (as bfdtv suggested) for the OTA issues to be resolved before I upgrade to Premier.

What worries me is that it seems tuner/decoder performance would be primarily a hardware issue. Is it realistic to expect better OTA reception to result from firmware upgrades? I hope so, because otherwise I'll be waiting for the next hardware upgrade. OTA viewers, please keep those comments coming. Thanks.

Yep I am in the same boat; just hope the FCC does not degrad our OTA and/or take that away.

All the sudden Netflix has stopped sending BD, seems everyone in Houston again has bought new BD players and there are not enough disk for everyone.

Has anyone created a thread for current tivo owners who are disgusted that they need a hardware upgrade in order to take advantage of the new features.

Here is what I would love to say:

THE PROCESS OF GETTING my Tivo HD WORKING WITH VERIZON FIOS / CABLECARDS WAS A DISASTER AND TOOK MANY VISITS BY TECHNICIANS. THIS IS MY 3RD TIVO AND WILL BE MY LAST UNLESS THE SOFTWARE CAN BE A SMALL-FEE UPGRADE FOR EXISTING USERS, OR BETTER YET FREE SINCE I AM PAYING $13+ PER MONTH.

PC BASED MEDIA PLAYERS ARE JUST TOO GOOD NOW TO JUSTIFY THE COSTS AND I CAN ACCESS ALL MY MEDIA, SURF THE WEB (FOR REAL) AND USE A NETWORK DRIVE TO BACKUP MY PROGRAMS.

Has anyone created a thread for current tivo owners who are disgusted that they need a hardware upgrade in order to take advantage of the new features.

The Premiere's new Flash interface can't run on the older hardware. That hardware is simply too old and too slow. Broadcom, the maker of the CPU inside the TivoHD and Premiere, does not support Flash on older hardware.

TiVo plans to update the TivoHD / Series3 software with some other enhancements found on the Premiere, but it won't include the new interface.