Can we Talk about Melee carries?

Soon, they&#039;re going to be the only untouched class remaining in this game when assassins will be reworked.
Who are melee carries? they are melee that:
-poorly scale with CDR or in general scale better with attack speed/damage/crit rather than CDR: {{champion:23}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:157}} gangplank is an exception because his damage are 80% from his spells the other 20% is from his passive that scales greatly with AD and with the reset from his barrels it can lead to a lot of true damage.
-they are champions who are able to kill any target in late game and that&#039;s why they are called &quot;carries" {{champion:157}} {{champion:114}} for example
from this definition, {{champion:56}} {{champion:266}} can also be considered as melee carries, because they fit perfectly to the definition
now {{champion:157}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:56}} are perfectly viable (in my opinion) and were picked a lot in competition (except nocturne), unlike {{champion:23}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:266}} (even when viable he was built like a tank) because let&#039;s see what they bring to the table:
- MASSIVE utility, that&#039;s what make a pick viable in competition and still strong when behind, and a lot of ranged carries have utility ({{champion:22}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:222}} )
{{champion:157}} is able to protect his team from something like miss fortune ulti, has an aoe knock up every 3.99 seconds in late game, his ulti brings something like 600 aoe damage in late game.
{{champion:114}} cc and something like a soraka ulti in late game
{{champion:41}} global presence, 80% aoe slow, high aoe damage with his ulti.
-a great defense to allow them to teamfight
{{champion:114}} can dodge everything for a few seconds, and can have a heal.
{{champion:157}} shield that can be reseted, windwall
{{champion:41}} a QSS+heal but gangplank can bring damage from a high range.
Now, you perfectly understand the problem of some melees
{{champion:23}} , **needs to pray RNGjesus in early game to win**,
brings no utility at all, his slow is situational and his AD debuff is flat which falls off in late game, his AD debuff not only is useless against champions that doesn&#039;t use AD ({{champion:33}} {{champion:268}} and mages) but it is also maxed at lvl 13 because you need his spin to be on a low cooldown, which means that in most of the game it will be -20 AD.
he has nothing againt tanks unlike fiora/gangplank/yasuo who have armor pene or true damage, or %hp true damage.
{{champion:11}} brings no utility and his defensive spell requieres him to stop attacking, he can dodge a spell but he needs to use his Q to get into his target, there is also a small delay before his Q goes off **unlike fiora's W**.
{{champion:266}} **has the most frustrating sustain**
has the LOWEST damage i ever saw as a carry, does not scale with crit unlike{{champion:23}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:11}} (his q can crit). his knock up doesn&#039;t last enough time to be considered as a good utility. He also has NO spells against tanks like tryndamere.
i feel like at least {{champion:23}} and {{champion:266}} should be reworked, feel free to add your opinion
i would like to see how you would manage to make them viable, and not frustrating (like tryndamere or aatrox).
> [{quoted}](name=kuzzy47,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1LrA4EZu,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2016-07-09T22:09:51.193+0000)
>
> 3 pages and no mention of xin i am disapoint
well xin is a champ that i don't really know. I don't even know if he is a carry but what's more is i don't even know if he needs a rework. His kit as a carry is good, it provides him TONS of utility (mini-stun,knock back, knock up, slow) and tankiness for teamfight (ulti armor/mr, sustain).
**If he were to be underpowered, he could use some buffs.**

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