Warband & more ideas

Sorry, this forum just seems to be bombarded with requests for warband critiques, and I'm afraid I'm going to add to that pile for a bit. I need ideas on a fourth character. I initially had him as a navigator, but that seems a bit too much of an oddball from the rest of the characters, and I don't want another servitor-warrior. I was thinking of leaving it at 3 models, because the Inquisitor is very psychic, and possibly over-equipped.

What do people think? And any ideas on expanding the fluff for Helveticus and introducing some for Malachus would be welcome.

Inquisitor Helveticus

Helveticus is an inquisitor seen by many as a devout servant of the Imperial Creed who has pledged his life to converting the Tech-Priests of the Machine God to dedicated monodominant worship of the Emperor, while others see him as a heretical parody of a pure follower of the Emperor, one who seeks to twist the Imperial Creed to the ends of the Priesthood of Mars, whatever they may be. In truth, Helveticus is neither: he does revere the Machine God it is true, but does not do so to the detriment of the Imperial faith, and indeed never strays from its precepts; he regards the Emperor and the god of Mars as one and the same; that they are both striving towards the betterment of Humanity is no mistake in his mind, as they are the same entity. This has earned him many friends amongst the Forge Worlds of the Imperium, but also many enemies among the Ministorum.

OK Xerces mate, I feel your inquistor is way over powered for most of the campaigns I run, he is clearly quite capable of shooting the hell out of things, his abillities are large in number and pretty much a catalogue of the powergamer and his psychics are equally over powerful I aint even gonna ention his stats, that said, it does depend on what else is in the campaign as to weather or not he is overpowered.

Personnaly I suspect putting him in the ready reconner would put him at 350-400 points which is very very high.

Where is his flaw? where is the fun? why not play a marine????

That all said, if you are going ahead with him:

1. his fluff is skew wiff- if he is trying to convert adeptus machinus then why is he seen as perverting the worship of the emperor??

2. Also you have given no explanation of the wyrd

3. I assume the electro priest is an acrho, his last 4 stats appear way off, they should be pretty basic but modified by the drugs when he is activated, and I dont want to worry you too much, but "Dius Ex Machine" is not [b]a[.b] word.

Like the tech adept, has much more character.
Now given your Inquisotors breath taking abilities, a navigator would seem beyond overkill, also a little unfluffy, I think that for a more rounded band you need a ranged character, probably Ex IG although a gunfighter may cut it, a pathfinder/sniper would be nice, although how you wind him in fluff wise is up to you mate.

341. And yeah, I see your point. He does need a lot of reworking. I think, particularly in the profile, as I envision him not being that much cop if he's allowed to fight fairly (ie, without psychic interference). And given the background I had in mind for him (this isn't all of it, I'll give pointers in a second), machine empathy would be a more appropriate choice if he is to be wyrd at all.

The way I see him playing would be using psychics to get rid of opponents he doesn't need to fight (flinging them to the floor and such) and then terrifying/forcing the main target into being a damp squib in combat. If anyone would actually hit him I see him being frail but able to get up again if left alone. I didn't see him shooting much, in fairness. Which could probably get rid of a lot of the eye trinkets, and probably the special ammo. What sort of profiling would deal with that sort of play? And now I think about it, the telepathy is gone, I only really included it to make the trigger word easier and so that other characters wouldn't be able to hear it, twig what happened and switch Purgatus off. And a lot of the more beefy abilities (true grit, nerves of steel etc) could go too, they don't fit that either.

Fluffwise, he was raised on a Forge World and inducted into the Mechanicus due to an uncanny ability to fix machines (the empathy and psychic impel). He would have suffered some kind of industrial accident or other to give him the rebreather (which I include for the way I want him to look, here's a sketch: http://www.deviantart.com/view/6882865/), and he would have been found by the Blackships (assuming they check forgeworlds, something I'm not too sure about) and having his ability to manipulate machinery exposed as a psychic power. On the Blackship I imagined him latching onto Ministorum teaching as an extention of Omnissiah worship, the beginning of his home-made synthesis, and him being pardoned and shown to be strong enough to undergo Imperial training. The inquisitor on the Blackship was an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor who earmarked Helveticus as a possible way to infiltrate the Mechanicus. He took him on as an apprentice, and the rest is history. In his spare time, Helveticus enjoys being very bookish, he has written several treatises on the link between the Emperor and the Machine God, and why they are the same thing.

The reason the Ministorum don't like him is that I see him being very cagey about his detailed theology towards anyone who doubts him and/or doesn't read his books. The idea that the Machine God and the Emperor are on level ground isn't one I see the Ministorum taking to with enthusiasm if it's presented to them just like that.

And yes, we was overpowered. I went a bit too Hollywoodesque in the way I imagined him performing (like Vader but with people, more or less, while chanting imposing Ecclesiarchy verses and playing with people's minds to make things seem all the more threatening.

341. And yeah, I see your point. He does need a lot of reworking. I think, particularly in the profile, as I envision him not being that much cop if he's allowed to fight fairly (ie, without psychic interference). And given the background I had in mind for him (this isn't all of it, I'll give pointers in a second), machine empathy would be a more appropriate choice if he is to be wyrd at all.

I understand what you mean, but honestly unless you are perpetually facing super humans, he wil mostly top opposition with or without psychics, also you may learn very rapidly that psychics are not all they are cracked up to be, as risky actions you can very easily end with your brains dripping out your ears, particularly with another psycher on the field, psychics should be considered a last resort and be particularly rare, note that wyrds are therefore very dangerous, you would need a very good explanation for having a wyrd (my current character has the wyrd detection, pretty innocuous but still, she is blind - see the kind of balance for the wyrd?)

The way I see him playing would be using psychics to get rid of opponents he doesn't need to fight (flinging them to the floor and such) and then terrifying/forcing the main target into being a damp squib in combat.

OK dont depend on this, after 3 or so games your WP is going to be so low you are not gonna want t odo psychics, they are essentaily there for emergencies, now he has a high BS, a montion predictor and a bolt pistol with inferno shells, that, with his speed makes him a better shooting character than most gunfighters, first question is why, but otherwise he can readily remove ranged characters with that rather than the psychics (indeed in my own campaigns I would consider him over powered as a shootist, the first thing that I did to the players is to put them in an environment where firing bolter weapons won them an instant one way trip to the vaccuum of space, if you must give him a BP I would look to cut down on the ammo, particularly special ammo, and also give him a lesser pistol (have you counted how many rare, legendary and exotic items this guy has?

If anyone would actually hit him I see him being frail but able to get up again if left alone. I didn't see him shooting much, in fairness. Which could probably get rid of a lot of the eye trinkets, and probably the special ammo.

as above I would rather ditch most of the psychics, it gives him more longivity to use a pistol and save the psychic impell or bolts of doom tricks for when he really has no choice. As for his combat ability, his weapon skill is that of a sword master, I would drop it, his str is fine but I would be tempted to give him a one handed weapon

What sort of profiling would deal with that sort of play? And now I think about it, the telepathy is gone, I only really included it to make the trigger word easier and so that other characters wouldn't be able to hear it, twig what happened and switch Purgatus off. And a lot of the more beefy abilities (true grit, nerves of steel etc) could go too, they don't fit that either.

Agreed on the abilities score, but the profile, ok when creating characters I tend to get the player to dice and then move points around, as a basic rule, 50s and 60s is superior to most people, this is what inquisitors should be, his last 4 stats should reflect knowlege, his nerve, his will power etc, physically, WS I would expect to be in the 50s or 60s, BS may be higher, particularly if he is going to pick people off with a bolt pistol, probably the 80s, the alternative gun could be an automatic though, wash an area in shells to keep the opposition back, his str is fine, as is his T, his I is very high, which is not uncommon in =][= characters, and I have no particular objection to as my aversion to high stats is partly countered by limits to actions and the characters need to get involved, but I would assume with high I he is quite young and woul dbulk up the fluf to explain his speed

Fluffwise, he was raised on a Forge World and inducted into the Mechanicus due to an uncanny ability to fix machines (the empathy and psychic impel). He would have suffered some kind of industrial accident or other to give him the rebreather (which I include for the way I want him to look, here's a sketch: http://www.deviantart.com/view/6882865/), and he would have been found by the Blackships (assuming they check forgeworlds, something I'm not too sure about) and having his ability to manipulate machinery exposed as a psychic power.

OK 1. dont see that impell is linked to ability with machinery, still dubious about machine empathy. however fair enough, Black ships would check forgeworlds but beyond checking the gerenal populace and workers, Mechanicus adpets would be difficult to get to and involve a power strugle which a single inquistor would lose

On the Blackship I imagined him latching onto Ministorum teaching as an extention of Omnissiah worship, the beginning of his home-made synthesis, and him being pardoned and shown to be strong enough to undergo Imperial training.

you assume the Black ships are perfect assessors motivated to descve the truth, not effectivey trawlers seaking souls to feed the emperor lead by twisted individuals with their own agendas

The inquisitor on the Blackship was an Ordo Hereticus Inquisitor who earmarked Helveticus as a possible way to infiltrate the Mechanicus. He took him on as an apprentice, and the rest is history. In his spare time, Helveticus enjoys being very bookish, he has written several treatises on the link between the Emperor and the Machine God, and why they are the same thing.

be carefull, right there he is, by definition of some inquisitors, a heretic, not that it is a no go, but understand the impact

The reason the Ministorum don't like him is that I see him being very cagey about his detailed theology towards anyone who doubts him and/or doesn't read his books.

The church wont like him and will try and have himn put down because he expresses any views that dont match their own, or even they suspsect that, much less actually write books and preach, only his status as an inquisitor and the presence of a strong sponsor would stop direct, overt action, but it would certainly not stop covert indirect action

The idea that the Machine God and the Emperor are on level ground isn't one I see the Ministorum taking to with enthusiasm if it's presented to them just like that.

And yes, we was overpowered. I went a bit too Hollywoodesque in the way I imagined him performing (like Vader but with people, more or less, while chanting imposing Ecclesiarchy verses and playing with people's minds to make things seem all the more threatening.

I understand what you mean, but honestly unless you are perpetually facing super humans, he wil mostly top opposition with or without psychics

Something that I don't want, to be fair. As I said, a lot of the shooting augmentation needs to go. I want some kind of bionic eye, but it won't be so choc ful of goodies. Maybe just a single gunsight, or possibly not even that.

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

also you may learn very rapidly that psychics are not all they are cracked up to be, as risky actions you can very easily end with your brains dripping out your ears, particularly with another psycher on the field, psychics should be considered a last resort and be particularly rare, note that wyrds are therefore very dangerous, you would need a very good explanation for having a wyrd

Fair enough. I hadn't read the psychic rules in detail, I think I need to shift the "order of priorities" I had in mind for him in order to make him playable in a campaign. I imagined him as a Psychic then duellist then shooter. That might change to duellist then psyker then shooter.

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

first question is why

Because I didn't understand the rules, basically. I don't want him to be primarily shooty.

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

if you must give him a BP I would look to cut down on the ammo, particularly special ammo, and also give him a lesser pistol

True, after browsing through the inquisitors given in the book. By the way, do you think they are overpowered?

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

(have you counted how many rare, legendary and exotic items this guy has?

Rare: 1
Exotic: 4

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

but I would assume with high I he is quite young and woul dbulk up the fluf to explain his speed

He's not young, but I would imagine he would be using drugs and/or bionics to keep himself in shape. Maybe I should drop it down to the 70s and give him more bionic bits (possibly autosenses)?

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

1. dont see that impell is linked to ability with machinery

It's not, now I think. That would be more telekenisis. Gah, I miss so much stuff!

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

Black ships would check forgeworlds but beyond checking the gerenal populace and workers, Mechanicus adpets would be difficult to get to and involve a power strugle which a single inquistor would lose

Granted. Maybe I shift him down to just being a gifted factory worker. It's not exactly like the Mechanicus would be closeted in preaching about the Machine God.

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

you assume the Black ships are perfect assessors motivated to descve the truth, not effectivey trawlers seaking souls to feed the emperor lead by twisted individuals with their own agendas

True, but then again they could be either.

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

be carefull, right there he is, by definition of some inquisitors, a heretic, not that it is a no go, but understand the impact

Not a problem. The idea of mixing the Machine God and the Emperor into one thing is central to his character, so he can put up with whatever enemies come because of it.

Originally Posted by Cheredanine

The church wont like him and will try and have himn put down because he expresses any views that dont match their own, or even they suspsect that, much less actually write books and preach, only his status as an inquisitor and the presence of a strong sponsor would stop direct, overt action, but it would certainly not stop covert indirect action

Bring it on! Although given the huge range of Ecclesiarchy-accepted beliefs in various forms of the Emperor (sun god, divine general/archietect etc), he may well have some sympathisers, although they would be difficult to find.

Something that I don't want, to be fair. As I said, a lot of the shooting augmentation needs to go. I want some kind of bionic eye, but it won't be so choc ful of goodies. Maybe just a single gunsight, or possibly not even that.

The bionics are charcterfull, I have no general issue with bionics, only plaers who litter themselves with advanced cionics with all sorts of augmentation, what you have perhaps pushes it a little, but with balances in other areas is fine

Fair enough. I hadn't read the psychic rules in detail, I think I need to shift the "order of priorities" I had in mind for him in order to make him playable in a campaign. I imagined him as a Psychic then duellist then shooter. That might change to duellist then psyker then shooter.

The latter option is good, I would be tempted to go for an automatic or flamer gun to reflect the fact that he is not an expert shootists, see my answers below on psychers

Because I didn't understand the rules, basically. I don't want him to be primarily shooty.

Fine

True, after browsing through the inquisitors given in the book. By the way, do you think they are overpowered?

Eisenhorn and Tyrus are legendary inquisitors, they are very powerful and whilst that is aceptable the GM needs to change stuff to suit this, it can rapidly turn into a strighforward combat game, which is less enjoyable, Covanent less so but the psy cannon starts to put him in that league. Oddly whislt Eisenhorn is very powerfull, playing him in a campaign where he uses his powers will rapidly send him down hill, in my experiance, and to illustrate this look at Kessel and Lichtenstien in the Cephanon campaign from the inquisitor annuals, the two psychic characters over a period of 3 or 4 games started to go down hill, this gets exponentially worse, the more will power you lose, the more you are likely to lose.

Rare: 1
Exotic: 4

He's not young, but I would imagine he would be using drugs and/or bionics to keep himself in shape. Maybe I should drop it down to the 70s and give him more bionic bits (possibly autosenses)?]/quote] that is about double the amount of exotic the characters in my campaign tend to have and more than the amount of rare I let them have, when they do have exotic stuff it tends to be more banal, less radically offensive, boinics which supliment the sensors are a good example, as a GM I am more open to those than bionic eyes with targeting arrays (sights). As I said, I is a difficult one, one the face of it I would say drop it to the 70s, but as a GM I try and balance this with the fact that this is your main character, you put a lot of work into background, plus the stuff you do on actually modeling, if he only gets a couple of actions per turn, you are missing out on the action, particularly once he gets winged, I therefore, should you be wanting to use him in my campaing, be telling you to leave it the way it is, but come up with some reason, that could be fluff, you could drop it but then use drugs, etc

It's not, now I think. That would be more telekenisis. Gah, I miss so much stuff!

Psychic impell classically has one use in iquistor that far exceeds any other use of the ability, to puch a player back, usually on a gantry or walkway
[quote[
Granted. Maybe I shift him down to just being a gifted factory worker. It's not exactly like the Mechanicus would be closeted in preaching about the Machine God.

no quite the reverse, that is fine, but also consider what age he is picked up at, if he is young he may be picked up just after he has been selected to join the machinus but before he actually does

True, but then again they could be either.

unlikely, but it doesnt preclude your idea, should he be picked up as psychic the BS would pick him up, an unscroupilous inquisitor could readily take him after that, only question is why he stood out from the other poor wreched souls

Not a problem. The idea of mixing the Machine God and the Emperor into one thing is central to his character, so he can put up with whatever enemies come because of it.

as I said, fine but be aware he will have feww allies and fewer still will declare that allegence openly

Bring it on! Although given the huge range of Ecclesiarchy-accepted beliefs in various forms of the Emperor (sun god, divine general/archietect etc), he may well have some sympathisers, although they would be difficult to find.

OK, been doing some fudging and reading and writing, and I've got a piece about his recruitment into the Inquisition (although not to the rank of Inquisitor for a long time yet):

"...and of course, we will be allowing your inquisitorship full access to all parts of this ship, with a full bodyguard. Some of the cargo we picked up from Stygies are a bit, ah... feisty."
Cullman tried his best to ignore the steward's words; the man had been spewing unconditional service from every orifice since Cullman had arrived onboard, sprinkled with little indicators of superiority. Whatever kind of man Menelaus was, he certainly picked the right sort of staff to subdue any unwelcome guests.
Yes, he knew there were psychics from Stygies on this Blackship. That was what interested him. That Menelaus had managed to extract a handful of the Mechanicus' workers without their interference was a wonder, and one which could be used.
He sighed. "Show me these arrivals then, Glaucon." he said wearily, "And show me somewhere I can wait before I am accompanied."
The steward bowed. "Of course, of course my lord. This way, if you please." He continued walking straight ahead, but soon turned though an archway on the right-hand side of the corridor. After walking for what seemed like half an hour through tall galleries hemmed in by imposingly large bulkheads embossed with many purity seals, Glaucon arrived at a door set in an alcove, the runes on the keypad beside it glowing green in the wan light.
Glaucon tapped on various runes, murmuring a liturgy under his breath, and the door slid open slowly to reveal a very stark room, its walls streaked with what seemed to be rust and offering an iron chair and bed as the only means of furnishing. Glaucon gestured into it and bowed, grinning widely.
"I will notify you when your bodyguard is ready, inquisitor."
A few hours later, Glaucon returned. He had with him two men dressed in black carapace armour and wielding glowing metal shock mauls, their faces obscured by black full-face helmets and the blue reflective glow of suppression shields strapped to their arms. Glaucon bowed.
"These will be your escort for your viewing, my lord. Which shipment did you wish to inspect?"
Cullman rose from the chair and strode towards the doorway. "Stygies," he replied. He strode past Glaucon and addressed the guards. "Which way?" he asked them. One of them gestured to the left and marched past him. Cullman followed, back towards the galleries that he had walked through with Glaucon a few hours before. Glaucon himself had strolled off down the corridor in the opposite direction. They eventually came to a halt at one of the bulkheads. One of the guards began to chant.
"Ave mechanicus
"Benedictus servat, benedictus dux ducis
"Sum appono, benedictus dux ducis
"Ave mechanicus."
He struck his maul against the seals, splintering the wax. It fell away, revealing a cavity, into which he inserted a carved rod and turned it. A loud grating began, and the guard removed the rod. The bulkhead quartered and slid away, sparks flying from the walls into which they sank, revealing a large, high-ceilinged room containing all manner of people, most of them draped in robes and cowering in one of the corners of the bare room. Some of the more broadly-shouldered men in the group launched themselves at the widening gap, screaming incoherent fragments of Low Gothic obscenities. The guards stepped forward and beat them down, and Cullman was sure he heard the crack of bones breaking as the men's bodies fell.
The guards stepped over the unconscious bodies and a widening pool of blood before dragging them back in and gesturing for Cullman to follow.
Cullman walked in and up to the cowering pack of people, most of them children. They shrank back even further as he approached, some trying to climb up the walls. All of them looked malnourished, probably due to Menelaus' guards' treatment of them. They would be fit for the Throne by the time they reached Terra, nothing more.
A grating of metal on metal from behind Cullman caught his ear and he turned to see a boy in red Mechanicus robes staring at a nut and bolt that was hovering in mid-air above the boy's right hand. His left one, a bionic augmentation of some intricacy, was seemingly manipulating the bolt far faster than any hand should be able to, despite its simplistic movements. The boy obviously sensed that Cullman was watching him and he looked up, his eyes full of hatred, and voices began to ring around Cullman's head that whispered dark threats and Mechanicus prayer. Cullman's own psychic defences kicked in as a reaction, pushing the angry words out of his head slowly, an effort that stopped him dead in his tracks.
The boy turned back to his bolt. Cullman took a step closer to him, ready for any kind of assault the boy would launch. He battered aside a weak attempt to push him away, and looked the boy in the face.
"What's your name, son?" he asked quietly.
"Gregor Helveticus!" the boy spat out, trying to look away from the Inquisitor.
"Well Gregor, do you know why you are here?"
"Because the dogs who misuse the Sacred Machines want to break the power of the God-Machine by breaking his servants!" Helveticus glared at Cullman and spat at him. Cullman wiped the saliva clear of his cheek before continuing.
"Would you like the chance to serve your Omnissiah again? I serve him also, and could help you."
"You have no mark. Prove it, dog!" growled Helveticus, his arms folding.
Cullman smiled. So the lad wanted a test. He could give him one. Taking his laspistol out of his pocket and laid it on the floor. "I can command machines to do my will. It would not be so if the Omnissiah did not will it."
Helveticus looked at the laspistol, frowning. Cullman took a step back and let his mind drift towards the laspistol. "Rise, o machine!" he shouted, drawing the gazes of several others in the room. He tugged at the laspistol with the hands of his mind, and it leapt into the air, facing the wall. "Speak, o machine!" was Cullman's next command, as he strained to manipulate the trigger. Beads of sweat sprang up on his forehead and he felt the gun creak as he tried to pull it back. His mind began to drift and he desperately fought to regain control of the pistol. The frantic jerks he started to exert on the gun caught something, and the pistol fired into the wall and fell to the floor with a clatter. Cullman relaxed and sagged, breathing heavily.
Helveticus however had brightened, and leapt to his feet. He picked up the laspistol and held it out to Cullman, who took it.
"I often have trouble talking to the Machine Spirits too, my lord. But they understand, in the end. What work would you have me do?"
Cullman smiled, and straightened. "Come with me, Gregor." He made to walk out of the room and the boy followed. They were halted, however, by the guards. One of them levelled his power maul and pointed it at Cullman's chest.
"We cannot allow prisoners to be taken out of the cell," he said, "they are to be taken to the Emperor."
Cullman reached inside his longcoat and pulled out the Inquisitorial Seal, brandishing it at the guards.
"My apologies, my lord," said the guard, moving aside and bowing. "I was merely told you were to examine the prisoners. May the Emperor be with you and your charge."
The pair stepped out into the corridor, and Cullman led the way out of the gallery, Helveticus never far behind. He would have to have a few choice words with that steward...

and a new, slightly modified and (hopefully) more balanced profile:

Helveticus is left-handed.

Equipment: Bastard Sword, Bolt Pistol with a full clip and 3 inferno shells. Advanced bionic eye with a motion predictor auspex. Average bionic left hand. Average bionic right leg. Re-breather. Psychic hood.

Flak armour on chest, abdomen and groin. Padded Clothing on all other locations.

Resources: Diplomatic ship with a small base that has a small onboard medical facility. Favours from the Adeptus Mechanicus

WS BS S T I Wp Sg Nv Ld
72 65 58 63 63 98 89 94 83

Speed 4

Base Injury 6, Consciousness 32, System Shock 12

I've also adjusted Purgatus to being a combat servitor, seeing as I've found rules for electropriests, and I've already ordered the bits for him as he is. He now has "electrofists", electroflails that have the parry penalty of powerfists (-25%), are normal to parry themselves and only do one hit when they hit (unlike the d3 of the flails).