Why do people care about religion? Praying to an imaginary friend is a waste of your life. How about you get away from this pseudo-real world of religion and into the real world?

Is it because you don't feel any self confidence and you need a boost from a "thing" that commanded two nudists to take dietary advice from a snake?

Reminds me of a Bioshock quote:

"No Gods or Kings, Only Man."

I have nothing to do this evening so I feel like making pointless threads :).

Weren't you a passionate believing Christian until relatively recently? If so, you should be able to answer your own question based on your personal experiences/feelings and your interactions with other Christians.

My personal view is akin to Freud's, as he magnificently puts forth in his The Future Of An Illusion. To him and to me, religion results from:

a) mankind's perpetual fear of death and searching of a way to defeat it

b) mankind's fear upon growing out of childhood and realizing that despite what nearly every child believes at first, their parents are not omnipotent and omniscient and perfect. We realize that they can f*ck up and they are just normal people. This is a huge psychological blow - we spend our early formative years basically thinking our parents are Gods! We assign them many of the characteristics that Christianity, Judaism, and Islam assign their deities. I don't think this a coincidence. Once man realizes how helpless we all really are in the world, we crave a real omnipotent, omniscient, perfect father who will never leave us and who will always be in control of things... Like our parents appeared to us during the formative years of our childhood.

Why do people care about religion? Praying to an imaginary friend is a waste of your life. How about you get away from this pseudo-real world of religion and into the real world?

Is it because you don't feel any self confidence and you need a boost from a "thing" that commanded two nudists to take dietary advice from a snake?

Reminds me of a Bioshock quote:

"No Gods or Kings, Only Man."

I have nothing to do this evening so I feel like making pointless threads :).

Religion, religion, religion, r-e-i-l-g-i-o-n. I'm bored of the word. Religion is self merited, self achieved, self gained, it gives people self purpose, self direction, it seems that religion is all about ones self. How one can feel better about ones self. By doing what one thinks is right, gives one self pleasure in knowing that one did right. I am bored on the word.

I think there is a very easy way to answer the question of why exactly people are religious (aside from the fact that they're born into a way of life... this can go on ad infitium, but I mean why religions start and why they are appealing.)

The way is to look at what Judaism, Christianity, and Islam have in common. This should show the necessary elements in order to have a "successful" religion. I think this experiment proves consistent with my points about religion as a means of evading death and creating an all powerful, all knowing father to protect us.

All of those religions have some form of afterlife. The vast majority of religions do.

And their deities are basically consistent with the idea that men create religions to solve that helplessness we feel upon realizing there is nobody really running the show (because at first we think our parents are doing that) and a way to solve that helplessness... With an all powerful, all knowing, all loving, perfect father who watches us and cares about our problems and listens to us. Is it a coincidence that these are the properties we assign our parents until that worldview is shattered when we become aware of their fallibility? Religion is just a (futile) attempt to solve that fallibility forever.

At 4/27/2012 11:53:54 AM, jat93 wrote:I think there is a very easy way to answer the question of why exactly people are religious (aside from the fact that they're born into a way of life... this can go on ad infitium, but I mean why religions start and why they are appealing.)

By the bolded words I meant that saying "people are religious because they are born into that lifestyle" could go on for ages, from generation to generation, so it's better to address why religion is successful/existent in the first place.

Some have reasons, some don't. It's like the old statement "Why would I lie? I have no reason to lie?" To which I always respond: who says you need a reason to lie anyways? Can one not just lie for no reason at all? Answer: yep.

At 4/27/2012 11:56:37 AM, OMGJustinBieber wrote:It only concerns your eternal fate and the nature of ultimate reality. I guess it's nothing too important or interesting.

I think his question was more about why exactly people are religious, in the sense of what makes it attractive and so constant in mankind, when throughout history religion has constantly and undeniably offered an inconsistent and unrealistic description of the nature of life in our universe/world.

At 4/27/2012 12:00:26 PM, popculturepooka wrote:And then jat shows up with his usual attempts at mindreading. Lulz

LOL hey don't bash me I want to become a psychologist! Hey, isn't all psychology "mind reading"? That is literally what it is when you think about it; I was offering a psychological view of religion held by Sigmund Freud, if that's what you want to call "mind reading" then so be it...

And I am intensely fascinated by the psychology of religion, what makes it so successful and constant and appealing throughout the history of mankind - so I was offering an intellectual response based on my (and Freud's) observations.

So...you're an atheist because a website tells you to be? I was asking for your arguments.

Secondly, Internet Infidels rely on horrible arguments. I've read some of their articles before. Not impressive in the least.

I see that both of us are trolling each other.

Seriously....there is no logical reason for God to exist. I would rather not waste my life on an unlikely possibility.

Actually, I wasn't trolling. I'm glad that you were, though, because I read some of the arguments on the website that you showed and not a single one that I've read so far was any good.

There are many logical reasons for God to exist. Theists have been making logical arguments for thousands of years.

And frankly, for Atheists to shift the burden of proof rather than try to logically argue against Theism seems to be doing a disservice to Atheists who have been arguing logically against Theism for as long as they've been arguing.

And frankly, for Atheists to shift the burden of proof rather than try to logically argue against Theism seems to be doing a disservice to Atheists who have been arguing logically against Theism for as long as they've been arguing.

Shift the burden of proof? Why does it have to be shifted? The burden of proof is upon the theist making the positive claim about God's existence and his interference/interest in the history of mankind. There have been thousands and thousands of religions who made positive claims about God's existence throughout the history of mankind. Let's say there are 10,000 of them. You are an atheist when it comes to 9,999 of those Gods. I, an atheist, am only an atheist for one more God than you are. But we are all atheists for the vast, vast majority of Gods that have been worshiped throughout mankind.

So the burden of proof should be upon the theist making the positive claim, to bring evidence to support it, and to prove that despite the fact that throughout history thousands of Gods - all thought to be omnipotent, omniscient, eternal, etc - have lived and died, his/her God is somehow an exception.

Either the atheist is unhappy or living inconsistent. If he's consistent with his worldview, then it's impossible to be happy. But if he chooses to live happy, then he can't be consistent (he deludes himself into ultimate meaning, purpose and value.)...

Either the atheist is unhappy or living inconsistent. If he's consistent with his worldview, then it's impossible to be happy. But if he chooses to live happy, then he can't be consistent (he deludes himself into ultimate meaning, purpose and value.)...

This is why it matters.

Where did you get that from? One cannot be happy if he believes he has no meaning, purpose or value? I'm living proof that that is wrong. And I'm sure a lot of people on here would agree to this.

Either the atheist is unhappy or living inconsistent. If he's consistent with his worldview, then it's impossible to be happy. But if he chooses to live happy, then he can't be consistent (he deludes himself into ultimate meaning, purpose and value.)...

This is why it matters.

Where did you get that from? One cannot be happy if he believes he has no meaning, purpose or value? I'm living proof that that is wrong. And I'm sure a lot of people on here would agree to this.

Ultimate purpose, meaning and value. Sure you can make up subjective existential virtues for your life, but you're going to die, everything gets washed through the great equalizer of non-existence. It wouldn't have mattered if you lived as a Stalin or a Saint, right?

So if you're living happy with your objectively meaningless, value-less and purposeless worldview, then you're being consistent with it... you're deluding yourself, placing your subjective existential virtues in place of what you know you can't have, given your worldview: objective existential virtues <-- these can only be met by God and immortality.

So if you're living happy with your objectively meaningless, value-less and purposeless worldview, then not you're being consistent with it... you're deluding yourself, placing your subjective existential virtues in place of what you know you can't have, given your worldview: objective existential virtues <-- these can only be met by God and immortality.

Why do people care about religion? Praying to an imaginary friend is a waste of your life. How about you get away from this pseudo-real world of religion and into the real world?

Is it because you don't feel any self confidence and you need a boost from a "thing" that commanded two nudists to take dietary advice from a snake?

Reminds me of a Bioshock quote:

"No Gods or Kings, Only Man."

I have nothing to do this evening so I feel like making pointless threads :).

Although I doubt this is a "serious" question, but since you ask why people care about "religion". Obviously theistic religions are centered around a God/s.

Because people believe there is a God/s that among other things can get angry at you and "punish" you, as well as be happy with you and reward you. As such people do the things they think will please God and abstain from the things that they think will anger God due to the consequences.

IF I do A then B will happen, I want A therefore I will do B.

"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12

Either the atheist is unhappy or living inconsistent. If he's consistent with his worldview, then it's impossible to be happy. But if he chooses to live happy, then he can't be consistent (he deludes himself into ultimate meaning, purpose and value.)...

This is why it matters.

Where did you get that from? One cannot be happy if he believes he has no meaning, purpose or value? I'm living proof that that is wrong. And I'm sure a lot of people on here would agree to this.

Ultimate purpose, meaning and value. Sure you can make up subjective existential virtues for your life, but you're going to die, everything gets washed through the great equalizer of non-existence. It wouldn't have mattered if you lived as a Stalin or a Saint, right?

Yeah this whole purpose thing, I hear it claimed that some one can't give them self purpose in the objective sense, but if some one, a supernatural person living outside of the universe gives you a purpose now its objective ?

And if ultimate purpose can only come from someone else, does God himself have an ultimate purpose ? or does he exist absent ultimate purpose ?

If God can exist with purpose that is self given, why can't human exist with a purpose that is self given.

All in all, does invoking a supernatural person solve the problem here, or does it just push the problem one step back.

"Seems like another attempt to insert God into areas our knowledge has yet to penetrate. You figure God would be bigger than the gaps of our ignorance." Drafterman 19/5/12

Either the atheist is unhappy or living inconsistent. If he's consistent with his worldview, then it's impossible to be happy. But if he chooses to live happy, then he can't be consistent (he deludes himself into ultimate meaning, purpose and value.)...

This is why it matters.

Where did you get that from? One cannot be happy if he believes he has no meaning, purpose or value? I'm living proof that that is wrong. And I'm sure a lot of people on here would agree to this.

Ultimate purpose, meaning and value. Sure you can make up subjective existential virtues for your life, but you're going to die, everything gets washed through the great equalizer of non-existence. It wouldn't have mattered if you lived as a Stalin or a Saint, right?

Yeah this whole purpose thing, I hear it claimed that some one can't give them self purpose in the objective sense, but if some one, a supernatural person living outside of the universe gives you a purpose now its objective ?

How can someone give themselves purpose without it being a subjective sense? That is just what it means to be subjective right? However, if a metaphysically necessary being who is a "qualitatively infinite reality" exists, and is realizable, then how is does such an entity or reality not fulfill the existential virtues like ultimate meaning, purpose and value?

God makes purpose objective by creating us for a purpose, namely, the knowledge (by acquaintance) and enjoyment of him forever.

And if ultimate purpose can only come from someone else, does God himself have an ultimate purpose ? or does he exist absent ultimate purpose ?

God exists within the necessity of his own nature, to ask if God has a purpose is to ask a meaningless question like what's the purpose of the number 7?

If God can exist with purpose that is self given, why can't human exist with a purpose that is self given.

Because we're contingent beings, that would make our purpose subjective and not objective. God on the other hand is a non-contingent being who's existence is metaphysically necessary.

All in all, does invoking a supernatural person solve the problem here, or does it just push the problem one step back.

No sir... insofar as one realizes God is necessary and we're contingent. God makes for a nice stopping point I'd say... well immortality too but that depends on God as well... does this all make sense friend?

Why do people care about religion? Praying to an imaginary friend is a waste of your life. How about you get away from this pseudo-real world of religion and into the real world?

Is it because you don't feel any self confidence and you need a boost from a "thing" that commanded two nudists to take dietary advice from a snake?

Reminds me of a Bioshock quote:

"No Gods or Kings, Only Man."

I have nothing to do this evening so I feel like making pointless threads :).

Well, you're under the assumption that God doesn't exist, whereas most theists are under the assumption that God does exist. If you take a theist's point of view that God does exist, then there would be no "imaginary friend," and you would be living in the real world.

Speaking of which, what's so great about the real world? Reality is 90% perception and only 10% reality. Sometimes, it's better to hold on to your own beliefs and defy reality, even if it's in your face.

For example, if people in the Holocaust looked reality in the face, then every single one of them would have died. There were a few, however, who believed that they would eventually get out, and they worked toward that goal by surviving the hardships thrust upon them everyday. It's because of their unrealistic dreams that they managed to survive; NOT because they decided to accept the fact they were going to die.