Oh damn. I want one of those. It's such a shame Microsoft's trojan horse crashed Nokia (and Finland's claim to fame) - I seriously can't bring myself to support that enough to buy this, no matter how much there's gadget lust.

Do the Asha run the same software as the Lumias? I'm a little surprised they're powerful enough, yet cheap enough to do that. Can anyone shed more light on the difference there?

Asha's run on the Asha platform, not on WP. It's based on the old Series 40 OS. It runs either Java ME apps or Web apps. I think they may have some of the Nokia exclusive software like HERE maps that the Lumia phones do but not nearly as much.

They do make pretty cheap Lumia's like the 520 which is around $100-150 which run WP8.

I'm living in Beijing right now (American by birth) and it's startling how popular Nokia devices are here. You see them all over - not as many as iPhones or Samsung, of course, but it seems like a solid third place with a wide range of models. And the hot thing right now is larger screens on phones, so I could see these doing really well in China. I swear to god I have seen people on the subway making calls on some sort of 9-10 inch class device, much less all the Galaxy Notes and Megas around.

Of course, with MS abandoning the Nokia brand soon, this should all collapse for them in short order despite any progress in the near term. Idiots. No one here (anywhere?) knows what a Microsoft or Surface or even Lumia phone is - they buy Nokia phones.

I'm living in Beijing right now (American by birth) and it's startling how popular Nokia devices are here. You see them all over - not as many as iPhones or Samsung, of course, but it seems like a solid third place with a wide range of models. And the hot thing right now is larger screens on phones, so I could see these doing really well here. I swear to god I have seen people on the subway making calls on some sort of 9-10 inch class device, much less all the Galaxy Notes and Megas around.

Of course, with MS abandoning the Nokia brand soon, this should all collapse for them in short order despite any progress in the near term. Idiots. No one here (anywhere?) knows what a Microsoft or Surface or even Lumia phone is - they buy Nokia phones.

Well we'll have to see how they live on with the Nokia brand. No one had heard of Lenovo either, but the ThinkPad line is still doing great. I think Nokia has done a great job with the Lumia branding so that may be enough.

I'm living in Beijing right now (American by birth) and it's startling how popular Nokia devices are here. You see them all over - not as many as iPhones or Samsung, of course, but it seems like a solid third place with a wide range of models. And the hot thing right now is larger screens on phones, so I could see these doing really well here. I swear to god I have seen people on the subway making calls on some sort of 9-10 inch class device, much less all the Galaxy Notes and Megas around.

Of course, with MS abandoning the Nokia brand soon, this should all collapse for them in short order despite any progress in the near term. Idiots. No one here (anywhere?) knows what a Microsoft or Surface or even Lumia phone is - they buy Nokia phones.

Well we'll have to see how they live on with the Nokia brand. No one had heard of Lenovo either, but the ThinkPad line is still doing great. I think Nokia has done a great job with the Lumia branding so that may be enough.

Maybe, and it'll probably vary by market. The Lenovo point is a good one. But I don't think Lumia is anywhere near Thinkpad as a brand. Could be wrong and hope I am as a WP8 user.

Thanks for picking up this story, Ars. Would be great to see a comparison done on these devices.

I really like the look of the tablet. I'm not one of those people who bashes RT, but do think it's a shame there is a distinction between RT and WP8. They're not doing themselves any favors by forcing developers to develop for all three platforms (including Windows 8), especially when they're struggling to gain app traction in every one of those OS stores.

As a generally happy WP8 user (Lumia 920), it would annoy me to no end if I picked up the Nokia tablet and found it didn't have apps which are available on my phone. That said, MS Office and Skydrive/Onenote have been pretty sufficient for my uses on my phone and my iPad.

Anyway, great looking devices! That sixteen hour battery life is pretty damned impressive.

Thanks for picking up this story, Ars. Would be great to see a comparison done on these devices.

I really like the look of the tablet. I'm not one of those people who bashes RT, but do think it's a shame there is a distinction between RT and WP8. They're not doing themselves any favors by forcing developers to develop for all three platforms (including Windows 8), especially when they're struggling to gain app traction in every one of those OS stores.

Just to be clear, there's no distinction from the developer point of view between a Windows RT and Windows 8 (Metro) app. So at least from that angle, choosing RT isn't any worse than 8.

I'm surprised MS couldn't get WP apps running upscaled on 8 by now, which would fill a lot of holes even if suboptimally. I don't want to use desktop software on a tablet, and the RT/8 store is just too lacking for most users.

According to GSM Arena, the Lumia 2520 weights 615 g. That a few dozen less than the equivalent iPad (well, while it lasts). I like the design of this tablet, I even like some of its specs, but I hate the price. I would hate this price a lot less if the state of Metro apps on Windows 8 wasn't so abysmally depressing. Even now, with the 8.1 update, some official apps appear to have less features and be generally lesser than their Windows Phone counterparts. Third-party are mostly non-existent and it took Facebook, a company which is partly owned by Microsoft, a full year and a major update to release its official app.

So I fear the Lumia 2520 will quickly join the huge graveyard of failed tablets endeavours.

Thanks for picking up this story, Ars. Would be great to see a comparison done on these devices.

I really like the look of the tablet. I'm not one of those people who bashes RT, but do think it's a shame there is a distinction between RT and WP8. They're not doing themselves any favors by forcing developers to develop for all three platforms (including Windows 8), especially when they're struggling to gain app traction in every one of those OS stores.

Just to be clear, there's no distinction from the developer point of view between a Windows RT and Windows 8 (Metro) app. So at least from that angle, choosing RT isn't any worse than 8.

I'm surprised MS couldn't get WP apps running upscaled on 8 by now, which would fill a lot of holes even if suboptimally. I don't want to use desktop software on a tablet, and the RT/8 store is just too lacking for most users.

Microsoft said that all Windows 8 store apps will be playable on the xbox one out of the gate. That should at least give a big push to the gaming side of windows 8 metro apps. However MS could really have a hit if they can integrate things well. I would love to be playing a game on xbox one, and pause it to say "xbox onenote" and have it bring up a onenote screen where i can record a voice memo which will sync to my other onenote connected devices. I already use that extensively on my phones and tablet, so being able to do it via voice while sitting on my sofa would be pretty cool.

As for windows phone apps, i think the issue is the frameworks. While there are lots of similar modules and shared code between windows 8 metro and windows phone 8, they still are two seperate stacks that are not unified yet. It is all .NET backed, XAML front end, so it should not be too hard to merge them. However you still have to deal with the fact that some phone apps are going to expect certain hardware or software to be present (like accelerometer, address book, etc..) and that will need to be dealt with when they merge the platforms further.

I'm surprised MS couldn't get WP apps running upscaled on 8 by now, which would fill a lot of holes even if suboptimally. I don't want to use desktop software on a tablet, and the RT/8 store is just too lacking for most users.

Take it with a giant grain of salt, but with the forthcoming update to Windows Phone that is slated to get WP to be about 67% the same code, and merge the two stores, that's a very real possibility.

Add to that the rumor that Windows 8/Windows RT apps are going to be usable on the Xbox One, and you might have a successful concept for Microsoft. Of course, as always, execution is their problem, not concepts.

I just don't understand 16:9 ratio tablets. I've held a Surface in portrait orientation and it's simply awful. It's difficult to read, surf or play games.

It's clear that whoever is designing 16:9 tablets is only using them in laptop type situations, and not leaning back relaxing in an armchair.

4:3 is the ergonomically superior "use in any orientation" ratio.

To each their own. With 16:9 you get a generally better video viewing experience, and it's also much better suited to showing multiple windows (not so much of an issue on competing 4:3 devices *ahem*). I also think it's underrated in portrait mode for web browsing. Web pages are all incredibly vertical constructs, so it's actually pretty nice IMO to be able to see a lot more of the web at a time than you can on a 4:3 device. But 4:3 definitely feels more natural for other things, especially reading ebooks in portrait.

For people of lesser means in the developing countries, the difference between 69USD and 100USD can make the difference between getting a phone or not obviously. But how does the higher end Ashas compete with the 100USD Lumia 520?

Well, the 501 has dual-SIM, but other than that. Build in flashlights? The 520 unfortunatly lacks that.

In any event, color me dead wrong, but I think at this point, RT is a soggy campfire that no amount of fanning is going to reignite. The OEMs are holding their noses -and Microsoft (and Nokia) are pretty much all that are left to shore up the walls.

I just don't understand 16:9 ratio tablets. I've held a Surface in portrait orientation and it's simply awful. It's difficult to read, surf or play games.

It's clear that whoever is designing 16:9 tablets is only using them in laptop type situations, and not leaning back relaxing in an armchair.

4:3 is the ergonomically superior "use in any orientation" ratio.

With 8.1 it is far more common to have two apps side by side. Some help features, for example, bring up a new window, and some apps (like mail) can use the extra space to display an email while you edit another one. Or you might want to doc Skype or a calculator. It only doesn't make sense when you can only see one app at a time.

4:3 is nice in portrait mode, but if you are viewing a 16:9 movie (as you might, leaning back in an armchair) you are wasting a bit of your screen. Doing the math (I hope this is right). For a 10" tablet, and viewing a movie in landscape, you will have:16:9 ratio: Width = 8.7", Height = 4.9"4:3 ratio: Width = 8", Height = 4.5"

Yes, if both are in portrait mode, the 4:3 wins if you are only using one thing at a time. But I think there is enough content produced for armchair backleaning (TV, youtube, etc.) that 16:9 is not an unreasonable choice. Add to that side-by-side apps (I'll often check email while watching a video) and it can be a winner in many situations.

The 1320's price, $339, gives you a good idea of what you'll find inside. While still a 6-inch device, the 1320 makes do with a 720p display (a rarity among Nokia's Windows Phone 8 devices, which have tended to favor 768p) and a Snapdragon 400 SoC. The phone is aimed at those who still have an interest in large devices but don't want to spend the big bucks to get one. And although it isn't the powerhouse of its stablemate, it does retain the 1520's 3400 mAh battery

Damn those are nice batteries. I wouldn't go Windows Phone at this point, but I love that Nokia is actually putting respectable hardware in a package with a suitably large battery rather than trying to be 0.9mm thinner with 200MHz higher clockspeed than the competition.

I just don't understand 16:9 ratio tablets. I've held a Surface in portrait orientation and it's simply awful. It's difficult to read, surf or play games.

It's clear that whoever is designing 16:9 tablets is only using them in laptop type situations, and not leaning back relaxing in an armchair.

4:3 is the ergonomically superior "use in any orientation" ratio.

With 8.1 it is far more common to have two apps side by side. Some help features, for example, bring up a new window, and some apps (like mail) can use the extra space to display an email while you edit another one. Or you might want to doc Skype or a calculator. It only doesn't make sense when you can only see one app at a time.

4:3 is nice in portrait mode, but if you are viewing a 16:9 movie (as you might, leaning back in an armchair) you are wasting a bit of your screen. Doing the math (I hope this is right). For a 10" tablet, and viewing a movie in landscape, you will have:16:9 ratio: Width = 8.7", Height = 4.9"4:3 ratio: Width = 8", Height = 4.5"

Yes, if both are in portrait mode, the 4:3 wins if you are only using one thing at a time. But I think there is enough content produced for armchair backleaning (TV, youtube, etc.) that 16:9 is not an unreasonable choice. Add to that side-by-side apps (I'll often check email while watching a video) and it can be a winner in many situations.

Edits: Typos

Yeah, I really enjoy the 16:9 ratio in Windows 8. To claim that 4:3 is inherently superior is ridiculous. It has advantages and disadvantages but for me, the advantages weigh more heavily than the disadvantages there.

For people of lesser means in the developing countries, the difference between 69USD and 100USD can make the difference between getting a phone or not obviously. But how does the higher end Ashas compete with the 100USD Lumia 520?

Well, the 501 has dual-SIM, but other than that. Build in flashlights? The 520 unfortunatly lacks that.

They don't really compete at all. I can't find an Asha handset here in the US. And the 520 is more expensive in areas where the Asha sets to sell.

I'd be really curious to see what the battery life on the 1320 is like. Lower-end hardware and less pixels to drive in the display, while keeping that huge battery should give it one heck of a lifespan.

It's a shame they couldn't get the pricing below $300 though. Purely psychological, but a high end phone below that price point should be a winner. Sadly it instead competes against the 1080p Nexus 5 (whenever it comes out).

Dear Nokia/Microsoft. Please stop with the exclusive best version of your phones only going to AT&T. I'd love to have one, but AT&T doesn't work reliably where I live, so it's a deal breaker for me. I'd love to have one of your phones otherwise (well one of your top of the line phones anyway).

I don't mind number name schemes, but like names they should reflect reality in some way. BMW has a 1 series, 3 series, 5 series, etc. all increasing in size and then the last 2 numbers were the metric engine displacement. 335, 535 had the same engine, 535 was bigger.

Nokia has all these numbers, but little effort to standardize. Yes, the higher numbers are bigger and usually better, but 2520 doesn't say 10" tablet. Google 2510 and you get something that isn't a tablet, isn't a Windows device and isn't from this decade.

I get some inconsistency because Nokia issuing a new device number is like the Yankees issuing a new jersey number, they're just running out. And I guess Nokia is gone, anyway, isn't it?

I don't mind number name schemes, but like names they should reflect reality in some way. BMW has a 1 series, 3 series, 5 series, etc. all increasing in size and then the last 2 numbers were the metric engine displacement. 335, 535 had the same engine, 535 was bigger.

Nokia has all these numbers, but little effort to standardize. Yes, the higher numbers are bigger and usually better, but 2520 doesn't say 10" tablet. Google 2510 and you get something that isn't a tablet, isn't a Windows device and isn't from this decade.

I get some inconsistency because Nokia issuing a new device number is like the Yankees issuing a new jersey number, they're just running out. And I guess Nokia is gone, anyway, isn't it?

So now, what? Lumia, Lumia Pro, Lumia Tablet Edition?

Well, it's not like Microsoft is really kicking ass on the whole naming convention thing either.

Xbox. Then Xbox 360. Now the third generation is called Xbox ONE?

Or we have Windows 3.1 Windows 95. Windows 98. Windows 2000. Windows XP (WTF? What year is XP?) Then Vista (Way to totally screw up not only naming but an OS in general) Then we get back on numbering that makes sense.

Of course Apple isn't any better. iPad. iPad 2. The New iPad. Now what are we on? The New New iPad?

Aside from the size it seems that the 2520 and the 1520 seem similar so how is that the 1520 is $749 and the 2520 is $499? What I am missing? How is the 1520 so much more expensive?

Well, the 2520 is a tablet while the 1520 is a phone. There's the difference in camera, but I can't imagine that has a huge effect on the cost. The 2520 does apparently have LTE, but it's also possible that's an optional feature for more than the base price, sort of how Apple does with the iPads. Even if it's included the 1520 likely has more cellular radios installed to make it work for voice and data in more areas as people would expect a phone to do. Plus, there's the additional cost of miniaturization.

Also, most people won't be paying $749 for the 1520. They'll pay the $99/$199/$299 (whatever the carriers price it for) with a 2 year contract agreement.

I'm a little torn here... While I know the benefits RT offers, the WinRT app market isnt a selling point yet, so the inability to run Win32 apps (be it a practical need or want) drags it down. Also, its pricing is too high for what I want to pay for ARM.

Had they gone with Atom? I could see it doing better, even with its respective strengths and weaknesses. I dunno... Feeling ambivalent, and that bugs me.