Down goes MAUL, Down goes MAUL, Down goes MAUL!!!!

And it has finally happened!!!! George Foreman...errr ....Rex..... has surpassed DM as most used leader on the GG website - both 39% but Rex has him in the count 845 to 839. I'll update my meta-tracker thread on Sat as planned, but this happening deserved it's own special thread notice.

Is it worth the celebration that almost 80% of the people who've loaded their profiles up on swgoh run 1 of 2 leaders?

Yeah I don't know, not judging by me either way. It's more of a news bulletin / notice than a celebration. I've just found the horse race here to be interesting. Also, this provides some indicator of how much gg lags some very advanced shards in the top 10/20. Seems there's about a 6-8+ week lag.

Above is a post from April 5th and I'm referencing Rex / 3x cleanse moving in about 2-3 weeks prior to that. So you'd be looking at mid-March Rex / 3x cleanse taking over. So that's good info to know going forward when assessing future metas and observing GG.

We've also had threads by @ImYourHuckleberry and others detailing a similar shift well before GG reflected the downward trend of zDM.

I would definitely like to see more leaders than 2 - but that's been typical of the game's history really. 1-2 common leaders, a few others sprinkled in. There's no reason to expect any different; you're setting yourself up for frustration otherwise.

I'd be a lot happier if the distribution was more varied and on a more equal basis. As much as I enjoy running Zaul, I also would like to know that there's more than one team to try and build and use in arena

Is it worth the celebration that almost 80% of the people who've loaded their profiles up on swgoh run 1 of 2 leaders?

Dodge meta under any form (Old ben, dooku, zaul) is awful. Despite being efficient, is the worst, infuriating, frustrating and most lazy mechanic in a game based on tactics/strategy (anyone imagine the king dodging a pawn in checkmate?). So it's downfall is, indeed, a motive to celebrate.

Now the next step is balance, so the arena is not crowded with the same teams. My dear devs, this was, in part, the cause of the tournaments fail.

Does any of this matter? Until you get to the top QGJ squad (at 5% or less usage) every single top squad is still running Nihilus. The meta hasn't really been "zDM" as much as it has been "protect DN"... Rex leads have finally outpaced Maul a bit, but its all still protecting Nihilus?... As a single char he's in a HUGE lead at 78%, with GK following at 48%, and Rex at 40%...

Is it worth the celebration that almost 80% of the people who've loaded their profiles up on swgoh run 1 of 2 leaders?

Dodge meta under any form (Old ben, dooku, zaul) is awful. Despite being efficient, is the worst, infuriating, frustrating and most lazy mechanic in a game based on tactics/strategy (anyone imagine the king dodging a pawn in checkmate?). So it's downfall is, indeed, a motive to celebrate.

Now the next step is balance, so the arena is not crowded with the same teams. My dear devs, this was, in part, the cause of the tournaments fail.

The tournament fail was mostly due to hacking. And you're never ever gonna have a diverse meta. There will always be a "best" leader or character. The only time a meta is diverse is when everyone is trying to figure out which one that is.

Is it worth the celebration that almost 80% of the people who've loaded their profiles up on swgoh run 1 of 2 leaders?

I would definitely like to see more leaders than 2 - but that's been typical of the game's history really. 1-2 common leaders, a few others sprinkled in. There's no reason to expect any different; you're setting yourself up for frustration otherwise.

Oh I'm definitely not expecting anything else. Throughout the game's life it's always been dominated by a small handful of toons/squads. I think everyone playing would want to see actual variety in arena especially, but seeing as we've been banging that drum for the last year and a half to no avail I guess a change in meta is a welcome thing

Big deal?
It's a cycle. Arena is still 'maul and his counter' the 'counter' has just gained some steam in popularity. It's just a result of people band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

Just because Rex teams seem to be used more than Maul teams doesn't mean Maul Lead teams can't beat them. I pick a battle with Rex/GK/Chaze teams before I pick a fight with Maul lead teams just because it's an easier win without the RNG effect.

Please people use more Rex teams..you have no idea how easy you make my battles for me. I freaking love arena nowadays.

Big deal?
It's a cycle. People are just band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

Is it worth the celebration that almost 80% of the people who've loaded their profiles up on swgoh run 1 of 2 leaders?

Dodge meta under any form (Old ben, dooku, zaul) is awful. Despite being efficient, is the worst, infuriating, frustrating and most lazy mechanic in a game based on tactics/strategy (anyone imagine the king dodging a pawn in checkmate?). So it's downfall is, indeed, a motive to celebrate.

Now the next step is balance, so the arena is not crowded with the same teams. My dear devs, this was, in part, the cause of the tournaments fail.

The tournament fail was mostly due to hacking. And you're never ever gonna have a diverse meta. There will always be a "best" leader or character. The only time a meta is diverse is when everyone is trying to figure out which one that is.

I disagree. The main problems of the tourneys were:
1. lasted for too long. Actually were modified from 3d to 1d.
2. Repetitivity of same squads over and over when entering top100: droids and mostly the current meta of the moment (if I recall correctly sth/wiggs). Same as in arena.
3. Hacking was only a big deal to stay in the top10. And was a problem easier to address since was an issue in the particular design of the toruneys, rather than the game mechanics.

About not having a diverse meta, should be the goal of the game, and achievable, as many other games succeeded in balancing different types of characters/squads to make a more enjoyable game experience. But since it maybe more (short time) profitable to release an exclusive OP new toon that make the old meta obsolete, I doubt devs are going to address it anytime soon.
As a prof of that, is the fact that many non-viable toons (for arena) are only encouraged/forced to farm and gear to unlock features (challenges, mods, ships, events, raids...), rather than rework to bring a more balanced experience.

Big deal?
It's a cycle. Arena is still 'maul and his counter' the 'counter' has just gained some steam in popularity. It's just a result of people band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

No - that isn't happening at all. Rex has been moving up for some time and has been effectively even with zDM for weeks now. In that time, Res and FO leads Phasma and Finn are nowhere to be seen - still combined only 1% on GG and I haven't seen any surge toward those squads at all on my leaderboard personally. They are too bad on D - stop with the Res / FO - they stank on D even before DN / zDM hit the game hard.

Big deal?
It's a cycle. Arena is still 'maul and his counter' the 'counter' has just gained some steam in popularity. It's just a result of people band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

No - that isn't happening at all. Rex has been moving up for some time and has been effectively even with zDM for weeks now. In that time, Res and FO leads Phasma and Finn are nowhere to be seen - still combined only 1% on GG and I haven't seen any surge toward those squads at all on my leaderboard personally. They are too bad on D - stop with the Res / FO - they stank on D even before DN / zDM hit the game hard.

Yep, I'm sure those rex squads will love getting their payouts messed with by these teams while zaul teams go untouched. Get back to me in a couple weeks

Big deal?
It's a cycle. Arena is still 'maul and his counter' the 'counter' has just gained some steam in popularity. It's just a result of people band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

No - that isn't happening at all. Rex has been moving up for some time and has been effectively even with zDM for weeks now. In that time, Res and FO leads Phasma and Finn are nowhere to be seen - still combined only 1% on GG and I haven't seen any surge toward those squads at all on my leaderboard personally. They are too bad on D - stop with the Res / FO - they stank on D even before DN / zDM hit the game hard.

Yep, I'm sure those rex squads will love getting their payouts messed with by these teams while zaul teams go untouched. Get back to me in a couple weeks

I'm already 6-8 weeks ahead of you - not happening sir You're just trying to hold on to your position that zDM is meta / best / OP etc that you've had for 2+ months now and don't want to admit under any circumstances that you are now and were in the past incorrect about the situation in the game. I recall your reliance on the gg site 2 months ago pointing to zDM's huge leader % margin at the time. This "get back to me in a couple weeks" deal just tries to kick the can down the road a bit now that the info is indisputably right in your face.

It's pretty odd that the anti-meta has now become the actual meta simply because it puts down the insanity that is zMaul.

It is definitely not a good sign that the devs managed to make zMaul in the first place. They put so much power into a single toon that the meta has become 'hard-counter this with a single toon or you will lose'.

Personally, I think this perfectly displays why this game needs a proper balancing system. When something like zMaul happens, we shouldn't just accept the 'play it or counter it, nothing else' idea. We should just nerf the thing causing the problems in the first place so that it's in line with everything else. That way, if someone wants to play, for example, Clones because the synergies are fun for them, then they are still as viable in arena as someone playing Sith. Counters will and should always exist, but having one thing counter everything and only being vulnerable its own direct counter is not good.

I realise it goes against the devs' interests (since whales would not pay as much to win), but the current system is just SO bad. Making the vast majority of your characters completely useless in arena is not a good thing.

Big deal?
It's a cycle. Arena is still 'maul and his counter' the 'counter' has just gained some steam in popularity. It's just a result of people band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

No - that isn't happening at all. Rex has been moving up for some time and has been effectively even with zDM for weeks now. In that time, Res and FO leads Phasma and Finn are nowhere to be seen - still combined only 1% on GG and I haven't seen any surge toward those squads at all on my leaderboard personally. They are too bad on D - stop with the Res / FO - they stank on D even before DN / zDM hit the game hard.

Yep, I'm sure those rex squads will love getting their payouts messed with by these teams while zaul teams go untouched. Get back to me in a couple weeks

I'm already 6-8 weeks ahead of you - not happening sir You're just trying to hold on to your position that zDM is meta / best / OP etc that you've had for 2+ months now and don't want to admit under any circumstances that you are now and were in the past incorrect about the situation in the game. I recall your reliance on the gg site 2 months ago pointing to zDM's huge leader % margin at the time. This "get back to me in a couple weeks" deal just tries to kick the can down the road a bit now that the info is indisputably right in your face.

"I'm 6-8 weeks ahead of you" Ok buddy. I could say your doing the same thing; just trying to damage control how op your team is. It's clearly a cycle. Common sense. Check back in a few weeks.

It's pretty odd that the anti-meta has now become the actual meta simply because it puts down the insanity that is zMaul.

It is definitely not a good sign that the devs managed to make zMaul in the first place. They put so much power into a single toon that the meta has become 'hard-counter this with a single toon or you will lose'.

Personally, I think this perfectly displays why this game needs a proper balancing system. When something like zMaul happens, we shouldn't just accept the 'play it or counter it, nothing else' idea. We should just nerf the thing causing the problems in the first place so that it's in line with everything else. That way, if someone wants to play, for example, Clones because the synergies are fun for them, then they are still as viable in arena as someone playing Sith. Counters will and should always exist, but having one thing counter everything and only being vulnerable its own direct counter is not good.

I realise it goes against the devs' interests (since whales would not pay as much to win), but the current system is just SO bad. Making the vast majority of your characters completely useless in arena is not a good thing.

How god it worked using your favorite non rebel teams against wiggs, and later R1 rebels, and that before Zaul? How good you think they will work against the future Wiggs R2 Chaze future meta ?

Big deal?
It's a cycle. Arena is still 'maul and his counter' the 'counter' has just gained some steam in popularity. It's just a result of people band wagoning on rex to counter maul. Soon, the fo, res, and Jedi squads will start emerging and will knock the rex teams down. Those rex teams will then switch back to their zaul teams and retake their spots. Back to zaul being #1. Give it a few weeks.

No - that isn't happening at all. Rex has been moving up for some time and has been effectively even with zDM for weeks now. In that time, Res and FO leads Phasma and Finn are nowhere to be seen - still combined only 1% on GG and I haven't seen any surge toward those squads at all on my leaderboard personally. They are too bad on D - stop with the Res / FO - they stank on D even before DN / zDM hit the game hard.

Yep, I'm sure those rex squads will love getting their payouts messed with by these teams while zaul teams go untouched. Get back to me in a couple weeks

I'm already 6-8 weeks ahead of you - not happening sir You're just trying to hold on to your position that zDM is meta / best / OP etc that you've had for 2+ months now and don't want to admit under any circumstances that you are now and were in the past incorrect about the situation in the game. I recall your reliance on the gg site 2 months ago pointing to zDM's huge leader % margin at the time. This "get back to me in a couple weeks" deal just tries to kick the can down the road a bit now that the info is indisputably right in your face.

"I'm 6-8 weeks ahead of you" Ok buddy. I could say your doing the same thing; just trying to damage control how op your team is. It's clearly a cycle. Common sense. Check back in a few weeks.

No way - I wouldn't set my credibility on fire just to create some fake smoke screen / political campaign to protect Maul....and like that effort would have any impact on what the devs do anyway. I was, as have others, simply communicating what experience I had with the game and sharing that info. It's helpful to others to know what really is strong, where the game's going, and what are the options so they know what to build.

Does any of this matter? Until you get to the top QGJ squad (at 5% or less usage) every single top squad is still running Nihilus. The meta hasn't really been "zDM" as much as it has been "protect DN"... Rex leads have finally outpaced Maul a bit, but its all still protecting Nihilus?... As a single char he's in a HUGE lead at 78%, with GK following at 48%, and Rex at 40%...

Honestly yeah I think that is the most impressive stat on the report - DN so far and away the #1 used character. This deep in the game's tenure seeing something push 80% usage is pretty amazing. He's obviously a very strong and versatile character. He's in the 3x cleanse squad that counters zDM, he's of course in the zDM comp, and then he's money as the lead in a Sith squad to heavily counter 3x cleanse. He's clearly in a class all his own at the moment.

It's pretty odd that the anti-meta has now become the actual meta simply because it puts down the insanity that is zMaul.

It is definitely not a good sign that the devs managed to make zMaul in the first place. They put so much power into a single toon that the meta has become 'hard-counter this with a single toon or you will lose'.

Personally, I think this perfectly displays why this game needs a proper balancing system. When something like zMaul happens, we shouldn't just accept the 'play it or counter it, nothing else' idea. We should just nerf the thing causing the problems in the first place so that it's in line with everything else. That way, if someone wants to play, for example, Clones because the synergies are fun for them, then they are still as viable in arena as someone playing Sith. Counters will and should always exist, but having one thing counter everything and only being vulnerable its own direct counter is not good.

I realise it goes against the devs' interests (since whales would not pay as much to win), but the current system is just SO bad. Making the vast majority of your characters completely useless in arena is not a good thing.

How god it worked using your favorite non rebel teams against wiggs, and later R1 rebels, and that before Zaul? How good you think they will work against the future Wiggs R2 Chaze future meta ?

Just because Rex teams seem to be used more than Maul teams doesn't mean Maul Lead teams can't beat them. I pick a battle with Rex/GK/Chaze teams before I pick a fight with Maul lead teams just because it's an easier win without the RNG effect.

Please people use more Rex teams..you have no idea how easy you make my battles for me. I freaking love arena nowadays.

totally agree. I run a zaul lead and would much rather face a rex lead than another zmaul team