Post by fballcoachg on Feb 23, 2017 7:27:35 GMT -6

I like the air raid approach to warming up, skipping traditional stretching and going through drills at varying speeds. However, all I've ever found is this from an offensive perspective, what would it look like for a defense? Circuits?

Post by coachfloyd on Feb 23, 2017 7:36:11 GMT -6

How about just go right into individual?

I try to use this illustration every time this subject comes up in a coaches meeting. When kids go to the park to play basketball, football, or whatever do they organize themselves into lines and go through a mobility routine? Or do they just start playing?

Post by airmale86 on Feb 23, 2017 8:57:01 GMT -6

Of course you should stretch. It should be a part of your strength and conditioning program. But, stretching prior to game and practice IMAO is not necessary and a complete waste of time. If it were not, we would stop practice every time we put in a sub to make sure he was properly stretched. Ease into practice with increasing intensity in drills, OK. Team stretch is basically only useful as a team building exercise and get together for HC to talk or rah rah.

Post by coachfloyd on Feb 23, 2017 9:15:44 GMT -6

Because it's the way it's been done forever and let's face it, we're, on the whole, not exactly the most out of the box thinkers on the planet.

True but many of these same teams I see doing Dynamic Warm-ups BEFORE the game.

then they go back into the locker room and sit for 20-30 minutes. It makes no sense at all. Some do it because the pros do it but thats a different clientele. I have to warmup now because I am old. It took until I was 25-26 before I really needed to warmup.

Post by coachfloyd on Feb 23, 2017 9:20:06 GMT -6

Some think it prevents injury but this is one of the biggest myths in strength and conditioning. The only times I have ever injured anything was after a very thorough warmup. No kids pull hamstrings in PE class and nobody does a warm up then. People do it because their coach had them do it. Our HC this year made me do it. It was completely worthless and possibly harmful because even warmups can be highly specific. What one kid needs might be detrimental to another. At my last school I was in charge of practice organization and we went right into individual. The school before that we lined everyone up and did 5 jumping jacks and went straight to individual. Nobody got hurt in those 7 years within the first few minutes of practice because they didnt go through a thorough warmup.

Post by chi5hi on Feb 23, 2017 9:42:34 GMT -6

When I awaken each morning the first thing I do is stretch.

The US Army, Marines, and all other services perform a morning "Daily Dozen" work out. The services are a team.

Team warmups are a tradition that fosters identity, unity, and teamwork. IMO it has value and is not a waste of time. It lets everyone know...we're here, and this is our team...we do everything as a team.

Post by veerwego on Feb 23, 2017 9:53:53 GMT -6

I coached at a very successful school where we did not pre-practice stretch or warm up. Position groups had pre-practice and some did stretch or warm up and some just eased into drill work. Our coach said, "You don't ever see a cheetah stretch before it starts chasing a gazelle."

I think stretching can be very valuable, but not as right before practice. On whichever day you bring players in over the weekend, maybe one day (M-W) and then thursday, and after pre-game meal on Friday. A good, long stretching routine coordinated by your strength coach 4 days per week can increase flexibility and help to prevent injuries.

That being said, I would start practice with a quick dynamic warm-up just so I would not have to listen to parents say it is my fault that Jimmy pulled a muscle or got a bruise because we don't have warm ups. Regardless of science, all these dads had stretch at practice and if you don't do it and you have a rash of injuries, then it will be your fault.

Post by agap on Feb 23, 2017 10:53:19 GMT -6

Every PE class I've seen has done a warm-up at the start of class.

We didn't warm-up one year but when we asked the players, they didn't like it. They liked not having to do a warm-up, but most said they'd like to do a warm-up. We actually had way more injuries in practice the year we didn't warm-up compared to when we did.

Post by coachfloyd on Feb 23, 2017 10:59:16 GMT -6

We didn't warm-up one year but when we asked the players, they didn't like it. They liked not having to do a warm-up, but most said they'd like to do a warm-up. We actually had way more injuries in practice the year we didn't warm-up compared to when we did.

but if the injury occurred after the first few minutes, then you couldnt say it was because you didnt warmup because they would already be warmed up.

Post by coachfloyd on Feb 23, 2017 11:00:04 GMT -6

Team warmups are a tradition that fosters identity, unity, and teamwork. IMO it has value and is not a waste of time. It lets everyone know...we're here, and this is our team...we do everything as a team.

Post by mrjvi on Feb 23, 2017 11:58:15 GMT -6

My teams never stretch and we go right into practice. Actually have had less injuries for the 15 years I've been not stretching. Saves time also so we get out after 2 hours. My PE classes never stretched either.

Post by ahall005 on Feb 23, 2017 13:22:25 GMT -6

Team warmups are a tradition that fosters identity, unity, and teamwork. IMO it has value and is not a waste of time. It lets everyone know...we're here, and this is our team...we do everything as a team.

I agree with this. Its a good way to reinforce things like finishing through the line and starting as a group....I also think about it like a beginning of class activity. Something to get them in "practice mode" before practice starts.

Post by coachcb on Feb 23, 2017 13:29:39 GMT -6

We only do dynamic stretches, during practice and in pre-game. The whole routine takes about 5-10 minutes to complete, the kids are warmed up and loose and ready to go. We do static stretching at the end of every practice as a cool-down. The basketball kids did static stretching and foam rolling for 10 minutes to finish the day. Worked out well.

Post by soonerj355alan on Feb 23, 2017 13:33:02 GMT -6

We do the dynamic warm-up before practice and first thing out of the gate pre-game and an abbreviated version right before kickoff and after halftime. What I like about it is that we have made it beneficial physically (getting muscles warm, blood flowing, etc), beneficial as a team (line leader responsibilities and some sort of added fun thing the kids come up with that wakes them up and gets them mentally engaged), and beneficial to conditioning (pretty much constant movement for 5-7 minutes that gets them breathing hard).

It would be hard for me to imagine starting a practice or game without it. If nothing else for the part of it that gets them focused on what we are about to do.

“Success is like anything worthwhile. It has a price. You have to pay the price to win and you have to pay the price to get to the point where success is possible. Most important, you must pay the price to stay there.”

Post by mrjvi on Feb 23, 2017 17:04:23 GMT -6

Our kids do about a 3 minute dynamic "thing" before games just for the pump. We then run about 8 plays, then play. We go out (leave the locker room) @ 15-20 minutes before kick off. We were always tired from too much warm up in my early years. It's just what we do.

Post by macdiiddy on Feb 23, 2017 21:14:17 GMT -6

we don't stretch before practice and it has worked out fine for us. However, we do tell kids if they need to stretch and warm up get out there early and take care of, what you need to take care.

That being said we stretch our butts off before a game and the hypocrisy/waste of time is not lost on me. Our team stretch is normally a good hour before kick off, we then break out into O and D, then come inside and our Offense starts with the ball 90 percent of games. So our defensive players can end up being a good 35-40 minutes after stretching before they play a rep in a game.

I agree that a lot of it is creatures of habit, doing it because it has always been done type of mentality. That and I can see all the coaches in the stands being upset if Johnny got hurt in the 3rd quarter and blame it on the fact that we did not stretch before a game.

Post by natenator on Feb 24, 2017 17:28:59 GMT -6

Anyone have some research that may provide some evidence to suggest that dynamic warm-ups are not that useful?

I want to remove that time from our practice plans as a dedicated activity. I firmly believe that a special teams type circuit at the beginning of practice would provide similar effects, be useful, and create more efficiency for a team, like us, that are already time strapped.

Convincing certain people in our organization to do away with them is needed though and research may help that.

Post by utchuckd on Feb 28, 2017 7:34:32 GMT -6

Just my unlearned opnion, but cheetahs that chase gazelles don't spend the previous 8 hours sedentary while crammed into desks, or on the couch playing Xbox, or eat from a drive through to the point they're an adolescent pre-diabetic. They're also somewhat active as a lifestyle cause wherever they go they have to walk their own ass there.

"He was raised by his biker gang father so he has a different outlook on authority figures." -hsrose

Post by newt21 on Feb 28, 2017 10:08:24 GMT -6

Just my unlearned opnion, but cheetahs that chase gazelles don't spend the previous 8 hours sedentary while crammed into desks, or on the couch playing Xbox, or eat from a drive through to the point they're an adolescent pre-diabetic. They're also somewhat active as a lifestyle cause wherever they go they have to walk their own ass there.

Funny...but oh so true, I was thinking about this exact same thing the other day. The only possible response is that I wake up every morning and piss excellence.

Post by mdftfo on Feb 28, 2017 10:32:17 GMT -6

Just my unlearned opnion, but cheetahs that chase gazelles don't spend the previous 8 hours sedentary while crammed into desks, or on the couch playing Xbox, or eat from a drive through to the point they're an adolescent pre-diabetic. They're also somewhat active as a lifestyle cause wherever they go they have to walk their own ass there.

Exactly. Ever seen your dog or cat wake up? First thing they do is stretch.

Post by boneyard on Feb 28, 2017 11:14:05 GMT -6

By the time our kids get to practice or a game they've been up and walking around for 8+ hours, it's not like they just rolled out of bed. Honestly, the only benefit that I really see from it is that it gives the kids 10 minutes to dial in and get into a football mind. There are days in the summer where they're going through the stretching routine and a bunch of them are being slapdicks and very few are actually focusing and getting a true stretch/warmup in. You'll say that's a result of poor coaching and I'll agree with you.

Post by coachroberts99 on Mar 1, 2017 4:46:45 GMT -6

It's important to separate the various issues.... I personally believe you need a warm up, but by that I mean 10 minutes or so of submaximal exercise, to tackle the oxygen deficit and make sure we're in a position to perform.

Usually that's positional based "pre-practice" type movement and ball drills and includes a couple of minutes of dynamic stretching.

Over here in the UK few teams then retire back to changing rooms or anything so I try and time it that we have....

Post by CoachWeitz on Mar 1, 2017 7:37:45 GMT -6

A couple of things. I would say, like the majority of people above, warm-ups and stretching are done as a matter of habit.

That being said I think there is certainly some validity in the idea that the body needs to be warmed up. My uneducated opinion would be you need to get a sweat going (and no it doesn't necessarily have to be a sweat but the the general idea of getting the body temperature elevated and blood flowing is the goal).

Now, this can be done in a variety of different ways and, in my opinion, they each have strengths and weaknesses.

Dynaimic stretching is good for getting the body moving but also it's good for focusing on general team culture. This is a great time to emphasize getting behind the line, finishing through the line, everyone claps, etc. This means that all coaches need to be focused on their position group and holding them accountable. If half the staff is throwing the ball on the other side of the field it's not exactly useful.

I prefer doing warmups with drills so we can steal an extra 10 minutes of practice time. Drills are great for working on skills but they do come with a downside. The big downside I would say is there isn't the team building effect that you get with dynamic warmups. Again this is debatable and could be done during different times but there is certainly a team building effect of having everyone doing the same thing at the same time.

To go to the original post we've used defensive position warm-ups before. It's not overly difficult, essentially it goes down to the first stage of Indy time. This could be something as simple as stance and starts and initial reads. I like the idea of the post above with a Special Teams circuit. No, need to overthink it, just start with base level drills and slowly build up the tempo.

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