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In creating the technical body of Aikido, Morihei Ueshiba adopted the majority of techniques forming the physical basis of his art from Daito-ryu. Ueshiba then changed the techniques to conform to his vision for Aikido, as a martial art and a way of peace. In modifying the Daito-ryu techniques, Ueshiba relied heavily on his philosophical and spiritual beliefs for guidance, as well as his other studies including sword.

Examining the Daito-ryu techniques adopted and adapted by Ueshiba will provide at least two benefits for the Aikido student. First, it will provide a greater appreciation of the brilliance displayed by Ueshiba in creating Aikido, building upon the genius of Sokaku Takeda. Second, the Aikido student will develop a better understanding of the technical origins of the art and the value of the changes made by Ueshiba.

There have been a variety of articles comparing and contrasting in general the techniques of Aikido and Daito-ryu, but I have been unable to find a correlation of the techniques forming the technical body of these arts. This article provides such a correlation.

DEVELOPING A CORRELATION OF AIKIDO AND DAITO-RYU TECHNIQUES:

In beginning the research to develop a correlation of Aikido and Daito-ryu techniques, I decided to use readily available, commercial reference material for the study. For simplicity, Aikido is represented by techniques as taught under traditions affiliated with the Aikikai, with Daito-ryu represented by the lineage of Tokumine Takeda, referred to as Daito-ryu Aikibudo. The selections do not imply any qualitative judgment with respect to the other branches of each art; rather the selections reflect the relative availability of reference material. I have also included a chart correlating Tomiki-ryu atemi waza and Daito-ryu techniques.

The following were used as primary reference material for Aikido techniques.

Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere by Adele Westbrook and Oscar Ratti

AIKIDO by Kisshomaru Ueshiba

Best Aikido, The Fundamentals by Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Moriteru Ueshiba

I first compiled a list of all techniques contained in Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere, in order of appearance, and then crosschecked the list against the remaining Aikido reference material. The crosscheck resulted in the addition of several Aikido techniques to the charts, which are not included in Ratti and Westbrook's work.

A similar listing was made of all techniques contained in the Daito-ryu reference material. Emphasis was placed upon identifying the techniques contained in the Daito-ryu Hiden Mokuroku.

After compiling the list of Aikido techniques, I examined the Daito-ryu reference material to identify the techniques that appear related to each of the Aikido techniques. I then collated the results of the reviews.
NOTES ON TECHNIQUES:

I have identified the Daito-ryu techniques of Gyaku Ude Dori, Tate Eri Dori, and Dakijime Dori as corresponding to both Immobilization No. 1 -- Ikkyo and Immobilization No. 2 -- Nikyo. The correspondence is based upon comments by Antonino Certa, an Aikido 4th Dan and Daito-ryu Shihan, and Morihiro Saito, an Aikido 9th Dan. Antonino Certa identified Ippondori, Gyaku Udedori, and similar techniques in the Ikkajo series of Daito-ryu as being the same as Ikkyo of Aikido.1 Morihiro Saito has noted the difference between Ikkyo Omote and Nikyo Omote, when tori grips the back of uke's hand as in Katate Dori Ikkyo Omote, is the application of Nikyo pressure.2 Similar comments have been made by other Aikido shihan, as oral instruction. Therefore, I have identified Gyaku Ude Dori, Tate Eri Dori, and Dakijime Dori as related to both Aikido techniques.

I have identified the Daito-ryu techniques of Kirikaeshi, Ryo Kata Hineri, Ryo Hiji Gaeshi, and Obi Otsohi of the Ikkajo series and Suso Barai of the Nikajo series as related to Projection No. 2 -- Irimi Nage (Kokyu Nage, Sokumen Irimi Nage) based upon the comments of Antonino Certa.3 I have also shown the Daito-ryu Ikkajo series techniques of Kirikaeshi, Ryo Kata Hineri, and Ryo Hiji Gaeshi as related to Gedan Ate of Tomiki-ryu, due to the obvious correspondence to the Tomiki Ryu techniques.

Based upon the comments of Tokumine Takeda, Tenchi Nage of Aikido is identified as being a technique contained in the Aiki Nage series of Daito-ryu.4

I have identified Koshinage of Aikido as related to Koshiguruma, a technique appearing in the Ikkajo, Nikajo and Nikajo Uragata series of Daito-ryu, based upon the statement of Tokumine Takeda.5 For reasons detailed in "Of Oak Leaves, Blind Hogs, and an Acorn, the Origin of O'Sensei's Koshi Nage," I believe Yagyu Shingan-ryu Taijutsu was the source of Ueshiba's Koshinage, not Daito-ryu. I do see Koshiguruma and several other techniques contained in the Daito-ryu Hiden Mokuroku, as well as Judo Koshi Waza, as probable sources of techniques incorporated into Aikido as koshi nage as the art evolved.

Likewise, I have identified Koshinage of Aikido as related to Seoi Nage due to the comments of Antonino Certa.6 I have also identified Daito-ryu Sankajo technique of Ganseki Otoshi related to Koshi Nage of Aikido, because of its technical commonality with Seoi Nage and Koshiguruma of the Nikajo series.

Based upon the comment of Katsuyuki Kondo, I have identified Gokyo of Aikido as derived from an unidentified technique included in the Gokajo series.7 It is interesting to note, Morihei Ueshiba identifies the technique in BUDO as a variant of Dai Ippo, also known as Ikkyo.

The Kataguruma demonstrated on the referenced DVD prepared under the direction of Kondo Sensei appears to be technically closer to Projection 12 in Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere, than the Kataguruma demonstrated on the DVD of Kato Sensei.

The review of the public demonstrations featuring Kondo, included on Katsuyuki Kondo Daito-Ryu Aikijujutsu, revealed techniques identical to Projection No. 3 -- Kaiten Nage, Projection No. 8 -- Kokyu Nage, Projection No. 22 -- Kokyu Nage, and Projection No. 28 -- Aiki Nage, as well as Ushiro Ate from Tomiki Ryu Aikido. I suspect these techniques are from the Aiki Nage series, and have identified them that way.

I have included all arm locks taught in Aikido using pressure to hyperextend the elbow joint under the general heading of Ude Hishigi. The most common version of the elbow joint lock is Ude Hishigi Waki Gatame, also referred to as Rokkyo, Hiji Gime and Hiji Shime.

Although not appearing in either Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere or the books by Kisshomaru Ueshiba and Moriteru Ueshiba, I have included under the Aikido Immobilizations a technique referred to in the Iwama tradition of Aikido as Nanakyo -- Hiji Gatame, as numerous senior Aikido instructors teach the technique as a kokyu nage and as a knife defense. For similar reasons, I have also included Kubi Nage in the charts, as numerous senior Aikido instructors teach the technique as a kokyu nage.

Lastly, I did not list those Daito-ryu Ikkajo Uragata and Nikajo Uragata techniques, which have no substantive difference from the corresponding technique in the Hiden Mokuroku.

CORRELATION OF AIKIDO AND DAITO-RYU TECHNIQUES

How to Read the Correlation:

The first entry is the reference for the technique as it appears in Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere. The second entry is the term used by the Aikikai to identify the technique. Any parenthetical entry provides other terms in common use to describe the technique within the Aikido community.

The indented listing, appearing below the Aikido technique provides the related Daito-ryu techniques, grouped by series (Ikkajo, Nikajo, etc.), within the Hiden Mokuroku. (Note: A number of Aikido techniques do not appear to have a related technique within the Hiden Mokuroku.)

Aiki Nage* -- Techniques in the Aiki Nage series have no individual identifiers.

Ryo Eri Dori Ryu no Agito** -- The technique is an applied version of Tomiki Ryu Shomen Ate. While I did not see a technique in Daito-ryu Aikibudo corresponding to Shomen Ate, I did locate one, Ryote Eri Dori Ryu no Agito, in The Hiden Roots of Aikido, Aiki Jujutsu Daito Ryu by Shiro Omiya, and have included it in the chart. Omiya studied Daito-ryu under the instruction of Kozui Tsuruyama, who was a student of Takuma Hisa, who studied with both Ueshiba and Takeda.

CORRELATION OF DAITO-RYU AND AIKIDO TECHNIQUES

How to Read the Correlation:

The first entry identifies the of Daito-ryu techniques, grouped by set (Ikkajo, Nikajo, etc.), within the Hiden Mokuroku, and the Ikkajo and Nikajo Uragata. I have not differentiated Idori, Hanza Handachi, and Tachiai utilizing the same term.

The entry to the right of the equal sign identifies the related Aikido technique. The first entry is the reference for the technique as it appears in Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere. The second entry is the term used by the Aikikai to identify the technique. Any parenthetical entry provides other terms in common use to describe the technique.

Also, I have included Daito-ryu techniques not contained in the Hiden Mokuroku that appear related to Aikido techniques.

(Note: The Idori versions of Hiji Gaeshi, Dakijime, and Hizajime do not appear to have a comparable Aikido technique. The Hanza Handachi and Ushiro technique Kata Otoshi does not appear to have a comparable Aikido technique. The technique Kata Otoshi appearing in the Hanza Handachi and Ushiro groups appears to be the same as Ippon Seoi Otoshi of Kodokan Judo.)

(Note: The Gokajo techniques Kannuki Zume, Shumoku and Taki Otoshi do not appear to have a comparable Aikido technique. Additionally, I could only locate video of six of the thirteen techniques contained in the Gokajo series.)

(Note: Techniques in the Aiki Nage series have no individual identifier.)

I would anticipate the identification of further correspondence between Daito-ryu techniques and the many Kokyu Nage of Aikido, as catalogued in Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere, as additional Daito-ryu material becomes available, specifically the Aiki Nage series.

As I developed the correlations as a research tool to identify comparable techniques of Aikido and of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu, I would welcome input regarding any omission or error.

A Final Observation

It is interesting to note the correlation reveals 97 of the 118 Hiden Mokuroku techniques, approximately 82%, appear in Aikido as either primary techniques or henkawaza.

Wonderful work, John. It is ironic, however. There has been all sorts of noise, from howls of rage to squeaks of pique regarding the actual relationship of Daito-ryu to aikido. People have expressed a number of strong opinions. And here is fact - and to date, only 92 people have been interested enough to read it!
Yes, being a largely statistical analysis, it's not the most entertaining read. But here you have it. An 82% correlation! Furthermore, what was a revelation to me was that, previously, I thought that Daito-ryu had a vast compendium of techniques, whereas aikido was impoverished with only a few. And as it turns out, Ueshiba (and his successors) seemed to have taken the various separate Daito-ryu kata and ordered them among several "principals" - like the myriads of kokyu-nage.
I would love to see the photos of the Noma Dojo and other pre-war texts similarly broken down.
As we discussed, a massive Excel spreadsheet (heck, it's your time, not mine

Wonderful work. Truly nails the picture up on the wall where it cannot be avoided.
Best

Well, I've read through it 4 times now, so I don't know if it counts mine more than once... Lots to digest here -- fantastic. My biggest problem is needing some reference for some names I'm not familiar with. But that just means buying more books and DVD's... Cool.

I'd like to second the thanks and also suggest I'd love to see a spreadsheet myself.

And as a niggling aside from a statistics geek, I'd be a little careful using the word correlation here. Correlation has a very well defined meaning and if I might suggest it would probably be better to say there is a very strong correspondence. Just a suggestion from the cheap seats.

I second Ellis Amdur's comments, especially about the Noma Dojo and the prewar texts. I can see that you have shown the correspondence between Daito-ryu and modern aikido, as shown from publications readily available. This leads to two questions:

1. What about the two publications supposedly authored by Morihei Ueshiba himself? I mean Budo Renshu (1933) and Budo (1938). I believe that these are readily available in English translation. However, how would you classify them--as DR or Ueshiba-Ha Aiki-budo, or as aikido?

2. You have based your correspondence on named waza. However, since living in Japan I have practised a number of waza without names and I would not want to exclude these for that reason. In fact some of these waza, particularly the combination of locks/pins and throws, might be thought to be closer to DR than some of the modern stuff. One issue here is that O Sensei is known to have used names very rarely and that the names were largely coined by his students, who were trying to make sense of what he was doing.

Of course, these comments/questions in no way diminish the correspondences that you have established: they concern more the vehicle used to make the correspondences/correlations.

I'd like to second the thanks and also suggest I'd love to see a spreadsheet myself.

And as a niggling aside from a statistics geek, I'd be a little careful using the word correlation here. Correlation has a very well defined meaning and if I might suggest it would probably be better to say there is a very strong correspondence. Just a suggestion from the cheap seats.

Regardless, great article. And thank you again.

Ditto, and thanks. As a geek, but only an end-user of statistics, from experience it pays to note that making an argument from similarity is fraught with danger. Human DNA shows only a 1.6 % genetic divergence from Bonobo DNA. What is different is vastly more important in determining the result than what is similar. A difference of 18 % is an order of magnitude larger, roughly. a fifth whittled out. A study might be of value in focusing on what O Sensei left out, and more particularly -- WHY? in each case. That may be of more use than piling up more evidence of wholly expected similarities in cousin arts. Although likely you have to do the one to do the other

Good work. As an instructor who refers to the more "classical" execution of Aiki waza to provide insight into the rationale behind more "modern" waza, your listing of correlations is of great interest to me.

It is good to have some names to place alongside the similar waza seen between DR and modern Aikido. Now all we need to do is supplement your list with illustrative video to assist in the juxtaposition of similar DR and Aikido waza.

Sounds like a lot of work.
Could you explain what do you mean by two techniques correlating?

As you know, in M.A. the devil is in the details, a slightly different placing of palm or fingers, or a slight differnece in power dirction could create a much larger difference in effect. Thus, I wonder exactly what does this correlation mean.

Sincere thanks to all who have taken time to read my article and comment! I hope the following addresses the questions and issues raised in your remarks.

Dr. Goldsbury,

I believe the techniques illustrated in Budo Renshu (1933) and Budo (1938), and the film BUDO (1935) are largely Daito-ryu in origin and reflect the Aikido taijutsu, which O'Sensei practiced and taught the remainder of his life. I base this belief on a comparison of the techniques contained in the two books and the film with the techniques taught by Saito Sensei.

I agree there is a potential problem, due to O'Sensei's failure to identify each technique by a unique name, in examining the correspondence of Aikido and Daito-ryu techniques. The lack of specific names for Aikido techniques was especially troublesome in dealing with the Aikido Kokyu Nage and the joint locks affecting the elbow. Using the terminology created by Ratti and Westbrook was the best I could do to provide relatively descriptions of the Aikido Kokyu Nage. As to the Aikido elbow locking techniques, I had no real alternative and had to lump the techniques together as Ude Hishigi. Since my focus was limited to the 118 techniques of the Hiden Mokuroku, I do not believe the lack of specific names created a problem. I do believe the lack of specific terms for the Aikido waza would significantly complicate any attempt to identify correspondence between the vast number of Kokyu Nage and other unidentified techniques found in Aikido with the techniques of Daito-ryu contained in the levels beyond the Hiden Mokuroku, such as the Aiki no Jutsu, Hiden Ogi, Goshin Yo no Te, etc.

Keith,

I agree with your comment regarding "correlation." I used the word "correlation" in the sense of presenting or setting forth a relationship. In hindsight, "Correspondence of Aikido and Daito-ryu Waza" would have been better title for the article.

Erick,

I have the data and since there appears to be an interest, I will construct an article identifying those techniques of the Hiden Mokuroku, which O'Sensei appears not to have incorporated in Aikido. I think it would interesting to catalogue the technique of the Hiden Mokuroku O'Sensei did not include in the corpus of Aikido, with conjecture as to why the techniques were not included. This should generate some interesting discussions.

Note: anyone interested in getting a handle on some of the Daito ryu names may want to look at Kondo Sensei's books and videos. At least you can get a clear vision of the material being discussed, aside from the variations between Daito ryu schools, etc.
Best,
Ron

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 09-15-2008 at 04:50 PM.

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)

In developing the correspondence between the Aikido techniques and those of Daito-ryu, I first identified the characteristics of the Aikido technique.

For example, Shiho Nage of Aikido begins with Tori securing a grip on Uke's wrist and creating kuzushi, by manipulating Uke's arm, creating a sequential locking of Uke's elbow, shoulder, and spine. Uke finds himself fixed in place with his arm extended, back arched and the torso twisted. Tori maintaining kuzushi steps through with the inside foot (foot on the side of Tori's body closest to Uke) for the omote version or pivots to the rear on the inside foot. Once Tori has placed his foot, Tori pivots approximately 180 degrees to the rear, folding Uke's arm back, and cutting down Uke's arm, as if performing a yokomen cut with a sword. The action of Tori causes Uke to fall to the ground, either rotating at shoulder height or driven directly down.

After identifying the characteristics of the Aikido technique, I then examined the techniques of the Hiden Mokuroku to identify any technique conforming to the pattern.

If you review the Hiden Mokuroku, you will find techniques identified as Shiho Nage in the Ikkajo and Sankajo series of the Hiden Mokuroku. You will also observe two techniques in the Hanza Handachi set of the Ikkajo series, referred to respectively as Hanmi Nage and Irimi Nage. There are two additional techniques in the Hiden Mokuroku, both Tachiai, related to the Shiho Nage of Aikido, one is in the Sankajo series, Ippon Katsugi, and the other is in the Yonkajo series, Kasumi Nage. In addition to the Shiho Nage techniques found in the Hiden Mokuroku, there is one each in the Ikkajo Uragata and the Nikajo Uragata.

All of these techniques conform to the general description of the Aikido Shiho Nage. An examination of each of the Daito-ryu techniques reveals the following.

In the Shiho Nage of the Tachiai set of the Ikkajo series, Tori grips Uke's wrist as Uke attempts to grasp Tori's other hand and applies pressure with the gripped wrist locking Uke's hand back and up, while extending Uke's arm. Tori then proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of Aikido, with the exception Uke's arm is maintained in an extension in the Shiho Nage of the Tachiai set of the Ikkajo series.

The Hanmi Nage is a variation of Hanmi Handachi Katate Dori Shiho Nage of Aikido performed by Tori seated in seiza against an Uke who is attempting to grab Tori's hand from a standing position. Essentially, Tori creates kuzushi as in the Shiho Nage of the Ikkajo series and then proceeds to move Uke, who is standing, around him. However, the overall affect is the same as in the primary Aikido Shiho Nage, and I have seen a technique identical to Hanmi Nage taught by a variety of Aikido sensei.

The Irimi Nage is a variation of Hanmi Handachi Ryote Dori Shiho Nage Omote of Aikido performed by Tori seated in seiza against an Uke who is attempting to grab both of Tori's hands from a standing position. Essentially, Tori creates kuzushi as in the Shiho Nage of the Ikkajo series and then proceeds to stand up moving his inside foot forward. After assuming a standing position, Tori proceeds as in the basic Shiho Nage. There is a noticeable difference between Irimi Nage and the Shiho Nage of Tachiai set of the Ikkajo series, in Irimi Nage, Tori folds Uke's arm back in the same manner as the Aikido Shiho Nage, rather than keeping Uke's arm extended.

In the Shiho Nage of the Tachiai set of the Sankajo series, Tori grips Uke's wrist as Uke delivers a shomen uchi to Tori's head. Tori grips the wrist of Uke's striking arm with both hands, creating torque that cause sequential locking of the elbow, shoulder and spine, while maintaining the extension in Uke's arm. Tori then proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of Aikido.

In the Ippon Katsugi of the Tachiai set of the Sankajo series, Tori grips Uke's wrist as Uke attempts to grasp Tori's other hand and applies pressure with the gripped wrist, locking Uke's hand back and up, while extending Uke's arm. Tori raises Uke's arm, then proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of Aikido, with the exception Tori creates a hyperextension of Uke's elbow by locking the joint across Tori's shoulder on the same side as Tori's wrist that is being held by Uke. After the hyperextension of the elbow, Tori proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of the Tachiai set of the Ikkajo series.

In the Kasumi Nage of the Yonkajo series, Tori grips Uke's wrist as Uke delivers a yokomen uchi to Tori's head. Tori uses his hand on the side Uke is attacking to pass Uke's striking arm to Tori's other hand, which grasps the arm at the wrist, while Tori's hand, on the side attacked, grasps Uke's attacking arm near the elbow. Tori uses both hands to create torque, causing a sequential locking of Uke's wrist, elbow, shoulder and spine, while maintaining the extension in Uke's arm. Tori then proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of Aikido.

In the Shiho Nage of the Ikkajo Uragata, Tori grips Uke's wrist as Uke attempts to grasp Tori's left hand with Uke's right hand. Tori grasps Uke's left wrist with Tori's right hand and releases his left hand, grasping the thumb of Uke's right hand with his left hand. Tori uses both hands to create torque to sequentially lock Uke's wrist, elbow, shoulder and spine, while maintaining the extension in Uke's arm. Tori then proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of Aikido.

In the Kote Gaeshi of the Nikajo Uragata, Tori grips Uke's fist with his hand as Uke delivers a mune tsuki. Tori uses his other hand to grasps Uke's attacking arm near the elbow. Tori uses both hands to create torque causing sequential locking of the elbow, shoulder and spine, while maintaining the extension in Uke's arm. Tori then proceeds as in the Shiho Nage of Aikido.

Although each of the Daito-ryu techniques had minor variances, affecting the overall power and flow of the technique, each technique does track with the Aikido Shiho Nage and are contained in the technical body of Aikido, with the exception of the gripping of Uke's thumb by Tori in the Shiho Nage of the Nikajo Uragata. There is a version of Shiho Nage taught in Aikido dojo, which has Tori gripping the base of Uke's thumb. Therefore, I consider each of the listed Daito-ryu techniques as corresponding to the Shiho Nage of Aikido.

What I noted generally -- emphasis on generally -- was as you moved through the levels of technique, Ikkajo through Gokajo, the quality of the technique improved in the sense the higher the level, the less the technique relied on pure physical strength, relying more on timing, positioning, and manipulation of Uke. There appears to be general agreement on this assessment within the Daito-ryu community.

Further, it appears Morihei Ueshiba incorporated in Aikido the version of the Daito-ryu technique, which he believed to be the one generating the most power and versatility of application, with modification, as he deemed appropriate.

I agree with your comment regarding "correlation." I used the word "correlation" in the sense of presenting or setting forth a relationship. In hindsight, "Correspondence of Aikido and Daito-ryu Waza" would have been better title for the article.

Thanks and regardless I think it is a great article. My only concern is that there is always someone who will argue that the entire thing must be thrown out because this isn't really correlation in any conventional sense of the word. Correlation is an attempt to quantify the "agreement" (or even correspondence) of variance in the observed data. But here we don't really have variance and some could spend a lifetime nitpicking whether this shihonage is the same as that shihonage. Or how to quantify each one. But that isn't the point of your article if I'm reading it correctly.

Basically what you've done is cataloged and cross referenced techniques to show how the curriculum of the two arts overlaps considerably. That in and of itself is the real lesson here. And greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Lord what I wouldn't give to have all this same information in a book with photographs of both for comparison's sake. Given the variety of terminology it would be a fantastic resource. Gee, someone could get published doing something like that...

You've got it! As I stated at the end of the article, this is simply a cross reference for those interested in researching the relationship between the technical body of Aikido taijutsu and that of Daito-ryu. Regards, JED.

In developing the correspondence between the Aikido techniques and those of Daito-ryu, I first identified the characteristics of the Aikido technique.

For example, ...

I hope the preceding answers your question. Regards, JED.

Most interesting. Thanks for the detailed answer.

I have an additional question. Have you got any idea if many other Japanese Ju-Jutsu styles are as similar, or are significantly less similar? (in this regard, the notion of correlation is very useful, when correlating signals, one often compares the correlation to a desired signal to the correlation to other signals).

Personally, I train Korindo Aikido, which, according to Hirai Sensei (the founder), is a separate M.A. based on his learning. However, since Hirai Sensei called his M.A. Aikido, and had spent several years in the vicinity of Ueshiba Sensei. Many people insist Korindo Aikido is a branch of the Ueshiba Aikido.

Technically wise. Korindo Aikido has some special movements which are based on Hirai innovation, and which change the specifics of many techniques. Still, I have seen almost all of the techniques we use in Aikikai Aikido (often with some variation). Then again, I have seen similar techniques in many other M.A. including Modern Ju-Jutsu styles, in some of the few Kung-Fu styles I have seen, and most importantly, in the single practice I was lucky to get in Takenouchi Ryu Ju-Jutsu, which Hirai Sensei studied as a child and started teaching before he found his own way.

Thus, my own interest in this way of comparing.

I should also warn that at-least here, we consider Korindo Aikido to be eclectic, and have knowingly adopted techniques we found to follow the "spirit of the art". If Ueshiba had a similar grasp of things, and given his level of talent, he could have added lots of things from many other M.A.

The following are some of the characteristics I use to assess the possible connection of a jujutsu ryu with Aikido and Daito-ryu.

• Does Tori appear to "draw out" or "lead" Uke?

• Does Tori take control of the line of attack and then redirects Uke?

• Do the techniques of the school tend to conform to the concept of spirals along four axes — vertical, horizontal, obliquely upwards and obliquely downwards?

• Do the techniques of the school exhibit an overall sense of "aiki", i.e., is there a sense Tori is managing Uke through a mixture of subtle psychological and physical controls?

Using the above criteria, I have found a number of traditions, such as Hontai Yoshin Ryu, Shindo Yoshin Ryu, Takenouchi Ryu, etc., have noticeable similarities with respect to Aikido and Daito-ryu. I have also used the characteristics to eliminate a number of traditions from any connection, such as Sekiguchi Ryu, Tenjin Shin'yo Ryu, Kito Ryu, etc. Keep in mind my judgment regarding the possible connection or lack of connection of these traditions is purely speculative, based upon analysis of available video of techniques ascribed to these traditions. I should add, while Hontai Yoshin Ryu and Shindo Yoshin Ryu display similar characteristics, neither Hontai Yoshin Ryu nor Shindo Yoshin Ryu appear to have any actual connection to Aikido or Daito-ryu. (For a detailed discussion, see "Genesis: A Speculative History of Daito-ryu-Part II: The Wind in the Willows," by Ellis Amdur (http://www.aikidojournal.com/index?id=2702).)

Based upon statements made by Ellis on E-Budo.com, I believe he will present a strong case identifying the root art(s) of Daito-ryu in his forthcoming book, Hidden in Plain Sight. The new book should be available this winter.

I find it interesting that the founder of Korindo Aikido studied Takenouchi Ryu and did not have any direct association with Morihei Ueshiba. I also understand, while Korindo Aikido is an eclectic art, there are techniques within Korindo Aikido, which would cause an observer to judge it an art connected to Ueshiba's Aikido. Does Korindo Aikido, in your opinion, display any of the above characteristics? Regards, JED.

The following are some of the characteristics I use to assess the possible connection of a jujutsu ryu with Aikido and Daito-ryu.

Quote:

John Driscoll wrote:

• Does Tori appear to "draw out" or "lead" Uke?

Not sure I understand the question.

Quote:

John Driscoll wrote:

• Does Tori take control of the line of attack and then redirects Uke?

Tori can either take control of the line of attack, if his timing is early enough, or get out of line and establish a new line.

Quote:

John Driscoll wrote:

• Do the techniques of the school tend to conform to the concept of spirals along four axes — vertical, horizontal, obliquely upwards and obliquely downwards?

A strong yes, with emphasis on combining a vertical "wave" with horizental spiral.

Quote:

John Driscoll wrote:

• Do the techniques of the school exhibit an overall sense of "aiki", i.e., is there a sense Tori is managing Uke through a mixture of subtle psychological and physical controls?

yes, though this is more difficult to answer. As most disagree on the difinition of "aiki".

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John Driscoll wrote:

I find it interesting that the founder of Korindo Aikido studied Takenouchi Ryu and did not have any direct association with Morihei Ueshiba. I also understand, while Korindo Aikido is an eclectic art, there are techniques within Korindo Aikido, which would cause an observer to judge it an art connected to Ueshiba's Aikido. Does Korindo Aikido, in your opinion, display any of the above characteristics? Regards, JED.

Just to clarify, Hirai Sensei, the founder of Korindo Aikido did have direct connection to Morihei Ueshiba, but according to the description inside korindo, he met Ueshiba after he found his own way, and started teaching. And his association with Ueshiba was not one of teacher / student. Rather he taught in Ueshiba Dojo and later became the "operational manager".
At the same time, people from Aikikai seem to consider him as a student of Ueshiba.
This was the reason I was wondering if your analisys could provide additional insight about the origins of the art. But, according to you, Takenouchi Ryu does have similar concepts, invalidating such analisys tool.

I did use Shioda Sensei's books and videos as secondary source material, as well as books and videos featuring O'Sensei, Nishio Sensei, Shirata Sensei, Tomiki Sensei, and Tohei Sensei. If you have the opportunity to see the complete Hiden Mokuroku, you'll see a number of Daito-ryu techniques which appear to be closer to the Yoshinkan technique, than the Aikikai version. Regards, JED.

Wow alot of work here, anyone who puts this type of effort into something deserves to have it read. My own way of thinking about it though is while the waza of both arts are the same for the most part. The application and philosophy behind them differ greatly.

Well done! I don't know why I didn't see this when it first appeared....
Guess I wasn't looking and didn't see the title before it got pushed down the line. I really can't understand why it's so difficult for some people to see where Ueshiba's core knowledge and experience came from. I never have bought the visits from the tengu in anyone's history...

In developing the correspondence between the Aikido techniques and those of Daito-ryu, I first identified the characteristics of the Aikido technique.

Before indulging some hopefully constructive critique, let me thank you for this analysis. It is very worthwhile.

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John Driscoll wrote:

For example, Shiho Nage of Aikido begins with Tori securing a grip on Uke's wrist and creating kuzushi, by manipulating Uke's arm, creating a sequential locking of Uke's elbow, shoulder, and spine.

More critically definitive of aikido, and aiki arts in general IMO, is the mechanism of obtaining kuzushi. Several schools of jujutsu do this essentially from an arm lock applying leverage through the elbow joint to create kuzushi. This is simply a linear reaction to strain, and not aiki. Cranking, or the torsional equivalent of leverage, is the same thing.

Conversely, the sharp spiral tightening in aikido and other more expressly aiki arts should provoke an involuntary reflex in the body, in this case the triggering of extensors, and hence the tippy-toe reaction of uke for the entry. The inverse form of this action will generate the reverse and trigger flexors to drop him.

The manner of the application of the torque (or in some cases a more linear wave) is different from what you seem to imply. It is just as critical and must be of the rhythm of furitama in order to effect proper aiki. It may be only a single sharp pulse in that overt action -- or an almost imperceptible amplitude but continuous furitama that enables an kind of tactile echo-sounding 'sensitivity' of internal structure (kokyu tanden ho) that leads one where to move for kuzushi without any applied overt torquing or levering of the limb or body.

That manner of action defines it as an aiki waza and distinguishes it from the simple applied torsion or straight arm locks (some of which you describe) which are applying an overt leverage (albeit one the joint cannot oppose) and those that apply the "sequential torque" as you call it. The action is not an actual "cranking" torque or a leverage, though it is inherently related. In a beam, applied bending forces are resisted by resulting internal shears. The relationship is that if you create bending (torque or leverage) you get spontaneous shear -- if you create shear you get spontaneous bending. Aiki is in the latter category, which can be shown by a literal kitchen-table model.

Take a dishrag from your kitchen. Hold it between your hands. Try to use the dishrag to push one hand with the other. It won't work because it is as limp as ... um... a dishrag.

Now twist the dishrag between your hands. Keep twisting until all the slack is wrung out. You can now push one hand with the other, like it was a slightly bendy stick. Now, push the hands together, feel it compress slightly without bending the rag much. Now -- without releasing the slight compression -- release the twist slightly in one hand -- the rag will now bend spontaneously in response to the buckling shear created by the effective lengthening of the rag in untwisting it -- and at a joint that you did not even see when it was all twisted up.

Conversely, if you allow an end to remain free to move as you twist, it coils up in tension from the continued torsional shortening while essentially still slack (vice a torsional strain from resistance to the movement, once some tautness is obtained).

These are the purely mechanical part of the respective inverse actions of aiki -- which involves creating spontaneous action in a structure very different from the direct action of a pure torque or leverage on a resisting structure. The neuromuscular part in manipulating reflexes is noted above.

These two mechnical actions are the closing and opening forms of asagao in the DTR terminology. The attention of some to the issue of "slack" in the structure is generally correct -- but -- this seems IMO misinterpreted in the way they typically describe it .

Slack can be poor structure -- or it can be a structural reserve. It does not necessarily indicate poor structure --as with the dishrag -- slack and taut can be converted at need to different effect. But the inability to shift between them fluidly, and the lack of sensitivity to that critical cusp state -- not quite slack, not quite taut -- WOULD indicate poor structural sensitivity. Simply making the structure taut does not insulate it from the application of aiki -- as shown by our dishrag, and there are other neuro-muscular things going on that critical slack can either provoke or defeat in application. It also seems to be what O Sensei addressed in his discussion regarding aiki training as the "softening of joints."

If the shape of the action is correct in that way -- as well as the rhythm, uke folds up like a cheap cardboard playhouse -- and the "technique" is simply defined by the way in which the suddenly mobilized joints display themselves. Essentially, the action of aiki shapes the failure mode of a structure and then shifts it out of its stability profile -- but not locking it up -- it departs stability with one, and only one, degree of freedom -- the form of the technique being applied, which it follows like a leaf down a sluice.

If the action results in an overt resisted torque or countered lever, then the manner of action has not been achieved in aiki or aiki is lost in the course of application. A throw progressively tightens (closing asagao) or loosens (opening asagao) and then reverses the action at a cusp -- like a ski jump, or in osae waza continues the same action without reversal but the degree of freedom is then closed off by an obstacle (typically, a wall, floor, knee, hip, or whatever).

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John Driscoll wrote:

Further, it appears Morihei Ueshiba incorporated in Aikido the version of the Daito-ryu technique, which he believed to be the one generating the most power and versatility of application, with modification, as he deemed appropriate.

His rubric ( and method) for arriving at what was "appropriate" is what I think is important. I submit that the Aikido corpus pruned from the DTR syllabus represent those applications lending themselves most readily to the described manner of action. I submit that they became the "aikido corpus" because when O Sensei intuitively grasped the essential nature of manipulating structure and reaction in this way -- they were the types of techniques he most readily "found" when acting spontaneously, in takemusu aiki. He therefore tended to repeat those essential forms in as many variations as they spontaneously appeared to him, rather than demonstrating them as a prefigured or intended corpus of techniques. Those that did not lend themselves to this manner of action at all, or as easily, just fell away from disuse.