Thanks for the kudos, Viking. It feels nice to be able to talk shop and help establish what is really involved in owning a firearm in a responsible manner. It's hard to do that when it's become a political football for certain sorts in Washington. In fact, I learned more from this thread than I had been taught in my life.

You said it, Damen. The gun is, above all, a tool, one that requires care in its use. No more good or evil than the hand that uses it. Nothing would please me more than this helping to save even just one life by responsible gun ownership.

You said it, Damen. The gun is, above all, a tool, one that requires care in its use. No more good or evil than the hand that uses it. Nothing would please me more than this helping to save even just one life by responsible gun ownership.

Think anyone can sticky this thread to keep it easy to find?

Indeed.

Firearms are many things, from self-defense weapons to hunting implements to competition shooting to hobbies to collectibles. What they are not, however, is good or evil. A firearm will not jump up and shoot you on its own. However, no matter what application a person decides to employ them in, they must always be respected and not treated in a cavalier fashion.

I would love to know that the advice given in this thread had saved a life, but I'd be satisfied to know it made any difference at all even if it was just to make someone who's dicking around with a firearm stop and say to themselves "Oh, I shouldn't do that."

What is stopping you from using cheap 9mm ammo for practise and carrying the expensive but better ammo for the real deal? Unless there is a huge difference in the power it should not matter what brand of ammo you use while practising.

Just wanted to throw in my two cents here.

As Chit said; all guns are not created equal and neither is ammo. I'll give you an example here and point at the M1911 semi-auto. The design has been in existence for 102 years and it is one of, if not the most, copied and reproduced firearms of all times and is by far the most copied and produced pistol. In over 100 years, the M1911 only had one significant redesign and that was in the '20's that gave us the M1911A1. The basic design, though, has remained the same, from the grip safety to the magazine to the locking barrel. However, even with all that time, the actual dimensions of the pistol can vary widely to the point that you won't be able to replace a part without some final fitting, usually done by a professional gunsmith. Because of that and the wide differences in barrels, barrel ramps and tolerances, different types of ammo will behave differently. Some 1911s will be extremely reliable but others won't. The Remington 1911, for example, is notoriously picky about what ammo you can put through it.

My own M1911A1 is an example of this. Mine is a Sistema Colt from around 1960. What this means, basically, is that while it was made in Argentina, it is a Colt design built on Colt machines by Colt trained workers. It has done everything I have wanted it to but sometimes it would have days where it was picky about what kind of ammo got run through it. Federal FMJ rounds would feed no problem, but sometimes it would jam with lead round nose. After examining it I discovered that the barrel feed ramp was cut narrow. On either side of the feed ramp, the chamber edge was cut vertically, so this made it really easy to catch any round but full metal jacket. This meant that I couldn't trust it to chamber my Federal Hydra-Shok hollow-points reliably because of the inherent flat tip on hollow-points. A while back I ended up swapping barrels to one with an extremely wide feed ramp (horizontal cuts) and I am now confident that it'll eat any round I want to feed it.

However, at the time I could not be sure how picky my old barrel would be with the Hydra-Shoks because it cost over $25 dollars for a box of 20. Compare that to a box of Federal American Eagle FMJ rounds and they (used to) run around $18 bucks for a standard box of 50.

The only reason I'm not blasting through box after box of Hydra-Shoks is a simple case of economics. I can't afford to drop over a dollar a round when a typical range session will leave me around 200 rounds lighter.

Logged

"Fear my .45"

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy" ~ Marquis De Lafayette

^And that's why you need to do homework, and understand the weapon you buy.

There has been one thing that has ticked me off lately (several actually, but there are other threads for most of those things. This one involves a matter of gun safety). A group of "open-carry activists" have been active in Texas and other states, and I am convinced someone is going to be hurt by their stupidity one of these days.

It's one thing to open-carry on a hunting trip or in a wilderness area.. Hard to take aim at that deer/turkey/elk/whathaveyou if you don't have the gun out of the case. But open-carrying in an urban or suburban area is by and large a very bad idea, especially around restaurants, schools, malls, or almost anywhere large numbers of people gather in public if you aren't a LEO. Odds are, you aren't the only one packing, and if someone thinks you're a danger to the public, they may not bother with things like asking questions. It seems to me that carrying a gun in the open without a DAMNED good reason is practically screaming "Will you please shoot me?"

My advice: Don't do it.

On Less-lethal ordinance: As much as I am all for the opportunity to subdue an opponent and leave them breathing, there are several things to keep in mind:

1) It's called "less-lethal" for a reason. While they are less likely to kill someone, they still can under certain circumstances. E.G: Tasers can still kill a person if left on too long, or if the person has certain health conditions. Beanbag rounds can also kill a person if the head is hit, or if there is massive soft-tissue damage. Even Pepper spray can do serious harm to those with respiratory conditions.

2) All standard rules for firearms also apply to less-lethal ordinance.

3) Know the limitations of the ordinance. Beanbag rounds are usually only available for shotguns, so odds are, you won't have them outside your home, you only get one shot with a taser without a reload, and not everyone will be phased by pepper spray. Rubber bullets can be used, but are seldom, if at all, available to the public.

4) Research your options for the product. Just like firearms, quality varies, and differences are abound in less-lethal ordinance. Be wary, for example, of oil-based pepper spray in combination with a taser.

FPSRussia (as terrible as he is) actually did a video on his behind-the-scenes channel discussing open carry vs. concealed carry, and found that he could draw a concealed pistol about as fast as an openly carried one. I believe he also mentioned one very important problem: if someone is planning on committing violence, either to you specifically or to everyone in the area, they're going to acknowledge your gun as a threat. And shoot you first.

A 4-year-old girl accidentally shot her 4-year-old cousin to death with a loaded rifle that she found under a bed at their grandfather's Detroit home, police said Friday.

Logged

Quote from: Jordan Duram

It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?

A 4-year-old girl accidentally shot her 4-year-old cousin to death with a loaded rifle that she found under a bed at their grandfather's Detroit home, police said Friday.

A gun safe would be one way, yes. But the bigger problem is that the grandfather had the gun loaded, unlocked (many guns are supplied with a lock and key for the action) within reach of curious children, and presumably with the safety off. If any one of those had been changed, a child may not have died.

I see this is an older thread, but it's sticky-ed and let's face it, it's never inappropriate to discuss rules of safety in any endeavor. Doubly so with firearms safety. So far this is a great thread but I have a couple cents hanging around so I'll add them here. First sometimes local firing ranges might have guns available for "rent". For a nominal fee (> $20, plus ammo) you might be able to test fire a hand gun. Or if you know someone who has the gun that's been dancing around in your head. The fee or box of ammo is an investment. I would suggest doing it if you can. Make sure it "fits".Second, local NRA chapters often hold classes on safety and proper techniques. If you (like me) can't bring yourself to give any money to the NRA, most states have a department that controls natural resources. And they do the licensing for fishing and hunting. Even if you never ever plan to hunt, those classes are a good idea to take. They cover a LOT of safety and they usually do a good job of going over laws specific to that state. Last thing for now, and this has been touched on earlier. So you've had the opportunity to put a few rounds down range I the gun you've been thinking about. You still like it. Time to buy. When you get to the store, someone there should be able and just as importantly willing to walk you through loading, unloading, cleaning, and simple operator level breaking down that specific gun. If it's not the first person you talk to them s/he should be willing to get someone. If they tell youthe guru for that gun won't be in till Thursday, come back. If they can't or won't answer any stupid question you have run, don't walk, away. I know I said that one was last, sorry. But if you're looking at something for home or personal protection, know this. It's a hell of a thing to shoot at someone. As a veteran I've had to shoot at people in times of war. For personal protection. I'm not really a soft person, or so I thought. But there's nothing to prepare you for what comes after the bullets stop flying. So I want to stress make damn sure the reasons you draw your gun. Me personally, I can replace a television. That isn't really safety related, but worthy of bringing up nonetheless.

Logged

The difference between 0 and 1 is infinite. The difference between 1 and a million is a matter of degree. - Zack Johnson

Quote from: davedan board=pg thread=6573 post=218058 time=1286247542

I'll stop eating beef lamb and pork the same day they start letting me eat vegetarians.

I also want to add another rule to the list. Once again, I have to put this rule here for many of the same reasons I added the rule of Don't Look Down the Barrel: I'm appealing to the dumbest of the dumb.

Firearms and booze don't mix. Ever. Treat a firearm like a car; if you've been drinking, don't go near it. It seems like another No Shit rule, but remember the old stereotype of the rednecks getting completely wasted and YEE HAWing off a load of rounds into the air? Yeah, that stereotype is there for a reason. A lot of accidental deaths come from mixing booze and firearms and just recently a dumbass got shitfaced and decided to teach his girlfriend "gun safety" (yeah, the real kind, not the politician speak for Gun Control). Admirable intent, but that is the sort of thing you do sober. The aforementioned dumbass wanted to show his girlfriend that a firearm without bullets won't kill you. This is true enough. But to demonstrate this, he took his pistols, stuck them to his head and pulled the triggers. The first two pistols were empty. The third was not. As a reward for violating Shooter's Rule Number 1 (Do not point your firearm at anything you are not willing to kill) his girlfriend is now scarred for life and his booze buzzed brains are now orbiting Saturn.

People: if you want to drink, don't go near your fucking firearms.

Logged

"Fear my .45"

"If the liberties of the American people are ever destroyed, they will fall by the hands of the clergy" ~ Marquis De Lafayette

Had something like that happen to me, but with fireworks. Family reunion around the 4th of July one year. Folks break out some highly illegal fireworks. One of them, in their drunken stupor, knocks over one of the launch boxes. I only got out unscathed because I pulled off a Neo-like dodge. Just glad that at least they didn't do it with a gun.

A 10-year-old U.S. boy was suspended from school for three days for pretending his finger was a gun and pointing it at another student's head, the principal said.

Yes, zero-tolerance strikes again!

But that aside, should such behaviour be punished in some way? Doing that with a real gun is unsafe--as noted by others in this thread, never point a gun at someone you're not willing to kill.

Logged

Quote from: Jordan Duram

It doesn't concern you, Sister, that kind of absolutist view of the universe? Right and wrong determined solely by a single all-knowing, all powerful being whose judgment cannot be questioned and in whose name the most horrendous acts can be sanctioned without appeal?