* "It'll be more of the same."* "You can never win an MMORPG. It's a never-ending treadmill."* "Thank God I got off that crack a year ago."* "It won't be as good as Eve/Warhammer/etc."* "Blizzard isn't going to get another one of my dollars after that DMCA bullshit."* "I'm waiting for Diablo 3/StarCraft 2."* "I hate PC games. Console games rule."

I think I've covered the major ones. On that note, I have my copy on preorder.

I rigged up a "desk" such that I can use my computer while I pedal my stationary bike. (the bike doesn't fit anywhere near my regular desk.) Works pretty well. 300 kcal/day easy just playing WoW. It would even be a decent CV workout if I actually cranked it, instead of the leisurely rate I do.

I'm sure you can do something similar with a treadmill, but first you have to take the boxes off of it and get it out of the basement. Probably wouldn't work with a rowing machine, weight bench or bowflex (but taki

* "It'll be more of the same."
* "You can never win an MMORPG. It's a never-ending treadmill."
* "Thank God I got off that crack a year ago."
* "It won't be as good as Eve/Warhammer/etc."
* "Blizzard isn't going to get another one of my dollars after that DMCA bullshit."
* "I'm waiting for Diablo 3/StarCraft 2."
* "I hate PC games. Console games rule."
* "I have my copy on preorder."

Just think of how pathetically sad it would be if there was a insanely long uncut movie of your retarded ass sitting there for day after day after day after day wasting your useless life away in front of the absolute bottom of the barrel/mass market/Brittany Spears of MMORPGs, WoW.

I'm a part of the beta right now, as well as a few friends and guildmates. Sure, there are bugs now given that it's beta, and I don't expect it to be bug-free at release, but... given how many fundamental things are broken right now (continents crashing regularly, critical talents for some class builds not working, etc), I wonder how they plan to have this out in less than two months.

I've been playing WotLK on and off for 4 months now (alpha/beta) and seen it come a long ways in that time. When they first made it "public" only a few classes had new talents and abilities, some of which did not even work. Much of the landscape was unfinished (Dalaran barely even existed in the early patches).

They need to clean up some talents/abilities, finish some content, but there really isn't a whole lot to finish. At this point it will be a lot of tweaking of all the changes they made. They know they can't get it right the first time so they will try to make it as balanced as possible with 3.0.2. Within a week or 2, 3.0.3 will be out to fix the critical issues. They are close, and I think it will be ready to go.

They need to clean up some talents/abilities, finish some content, but there really isn't a whole lot to finish. At this point it will be a lot of tweaking of all the changes they made.

Right, talents, spells, etc. are all things that are not actually part of the expansion, which consists of new content (new zones, factions, items, mobs, and a class). Everything else will be addressed via the Test Server and the patch that will precede the expansion, kind of like The Burning Crusade. Now that the new patch is on the test realm, I'm sure the talents and things will come along nicely.

Should the talent changes and things like "spellpower" have issues, they'll know and push back the release

They move pretty quick. Also, you need to remember that the CD will likely just have patch 3.0 on it, and they'll push out any updates past that at release. Then factor in the time it takes to get to 80 (I know someone will do it in 2 days or something ridiculous, but I mean the average) and they still have time to tune things.
Plus the endgame raids get tuned almost continually, so it's not like they need to be in completely stable state at release either.

It really depends on which set of "work" is left to do. Personally, I have no issue with them doing content/balance/encounter tuning after launch. That's to be expected, and I've just never been one of those guys to jump on the official forums with "OMGIMGUNNAQUIT" responses every time they "nerf" one of my classes.

Stability though, as in the client/servers not crashing on me (at least not at a significant rate - anything more than once per 2 weeks is excessive), is paramount. By the time I'm buying the

I'm not positive, but from what I've heard you have to do quite a bit of stuff before you're allowed to leave the Deathknight starting area. I've not played it, but most people I've talked to said that you'd generally make it from level 55 to level 58 before you could get out.

You aren't. You have to do the intro quests to get out into good old EPL, much less the wider world. Until you finish the final quest in the chain, for example, all the NPCs in your capital cities are unfriendly to you, and jeer at you, throw things at you, etc.

Fortunately, given how they implemented the starting area, it shouldn't be that bad. Crowded, but manageable.

I was in both the Alpha and Beta of Burning Crusade. Even up to a couple weeks from release I thought they still had work to do, but they pulled it off pretty well. I see no reason why WotLK will be different. I would certainly expect there to be a patch after you install the retail game for obvious reasons.

Blizzard isn't under new management (all literature on the subject shows Blizzard is maintaining similar or greater autonomy in relation to their parent company), and they certainly aren't being rushed (the Beta for WotLK hit a lot sooner than the BC beta, proportional to the closer release date).

Burning Crusade was a great add-on, and I expect that this new one will be just as good. Sure, some people will complain that they have to buy content AND pay a monthly fee, but I only have to buy it once. If they skimped on the content I'd be upset too, but they don't. I'll get far more playing time out of this add-on than I have gotten out of any other recent game purchase.

For 4 years of entertainment, it sure is. I've spent more than that on activities on one vacation before. $15/month for tens of hours of entertainment is dirt cheap, and $40 on an expansion every couple of years is nothing.

Also calculating the total paid and thinking its expensive is just ridiculous, I mean, will he stop eating because he spent a lot of money on food?

I don't play WoW, but I play other MMORPGs, and the way I see it is I get 20-30 hours of play per month, sometime more when I got the time for $15. Its hard to find anything entertaining that costs around 0.5c per hour.

Also calculating the total paid and thinking its expensive is just ridiculous, I mean, will he stop eating because he spent a lot of money on food?

You're not really comparing WoW with food, are you? Really? I hope I won't have to explain how unrelated that comment is, since food is a necessity and WoW/[insert any MMORPG] is merely what you choose to do with your time...

As the other poster commented, $800 is a great deal for 4 years of entertainment. You can go on cruises or trips to resorts that will cost you more than that after only a week or two, and the only things you'll have to show for it when you come back are a sunburn and a t-shirt.

Or, to compare that price to other video games: let's say that your average single player action game provides a max of 20 hours of entertainment, and your average single player RPG provides a max of 40. If you play a mix of the genres 10 hours a week (perfectly reasonable for a casual gamer, and way under the norm for a "hardcore" gamer), you'll go through an average of 1 game every 3 weeks. With a typical game costing $50, you'll spend over $1700 on games in two years. WoW is way cheaper than playing single player games.

With an MMO, you get to pay to work a second full time job. Your duties will include:(senseless trolling)

You're quite adept at reposting old, inflammatory arguments, but -- why does any of that matter? If you have fun playing the game, then it's not a waste of time. If you don't have fun... then go do something else (which will probably, in the long run, be more expensive than WoW, as multiple people here have illustrated). Please, list your hobbies so that I can mock them childishly and tell you how I don't think they're any fun at all, and, therefore, you shouldn't, either.

All entertainment is based on the assumption that you enjoy the product being sold to the point where you're going to pay for it. Comparing the cost per hour of various forms of entertainment is a completely valid comparison.

For example, let's say you go to a 2 hour movie for $8. The cost is $4/hr. Likely the enjoyment from one hour of a movie is going to be more than one hour of playing WoW. However at $0.34/hr WoW is hardly a good comparison. Is approximately 24 hours of WoW just as enjoyable as a 2 hour movie? If the 24 hours of WoW are likely to be more enjoyable than a 2 hour movie, then WoW is the better deal since you're getting more satisfaction for the money you're spending.

in addition to my $15 soul-snatching-blizzard-fee. I do it because I love the game, and I (apparently like you) will justify it as a necessary cost.

This is such bullshit and it's been said so many times in these comments. Soul snatching? Really? That $15 per month (something you can easily spend in food each DAY) is really stealing your soul? You love playing game, by your own admission... yet it's stealing your soul? Give me a fucking break.

You may have been trying to shed light, but you only showed your own colored view of the situation.

Firstly, "never" is a very bad word to use unless you are absolutely sure of the impossibility of something. This is especially true as the second sentence of your second paragraph refutes your use of the word in the first paragraph. That said, we can conclude that there are times where month rate games are a good deal and it's only a matter of arguing how often and under what circumstances they are.

Actually the first quest in Borean Tundrea involves you meeting the general in the barrack, and killing 6 crypt fiends.
That being said, the Death Knight starting zone is a well crafted masterpiece with a dynamic changing world that helps tells a gruesome and tragic tale of your death knighthood. It was one of the best 6 hours of WoW in a long time.

but the OP is right, it is FANTASTICALLY well done. the fact that the game changes with you and unlike those lazy carpenters in Lakeshire, you can see the changes happening. Plus the fact you actually feel like a participant in the story rather than the observer. I especially like the reaction you get when you come to Stormwind and have to make your way to the king while being pelted by rotten fruit and eggs, and being threatened with hanging.

Yawn, sounds like more of the same. I enjoyed wow, but what eventually killed it for me

-People leaving pick-up-groups because their guild's raid (that they knew was coming) starting an hour after we start an instance. Leaving with nothing but "guild > pug imo". Needs a rating system of some sort, or a stats list of "uncompleted instances" vs. completed instances. Maybe if the whole group decided they wanted to quit, everybody could vote to "end instance" and not have their "uncompleted instance" count in

Then embrace sheer joy in the starting zone with interesting game play, a good storyline and the pleasant experience of phasing.

Then set foot into Outland, feel your heart sink as you realize that you and thousands of others exactly like you have to do the grind to 70 in same content you've been playing for the last year, while all your friends tell you how great Northrend is.

This is good for everybody, for those who want to roll a DK right away, they can hang out in plague lands and the outland for a couple of weeks while everybody else hits the northrend, less competition for quests and resources.

If they wanted to lighten the load on their servers even more (although theyve probably learned a thing or two since the BC launch), theyd release Starcraft II on the same day.

This is good for everybody, for those who want to roll a DK right away, they can hang out in plague lands and the outland for a couple of weeks while everybody else hits the northrend, less competition for quests and resources.

You wish. The Chinese leveling service will be taking care of my 4 characters I need to get from 70-80 on my 2 other accounts while I play with my new DK on the third one.

Northrend isn't going to be less crowded, its just going to be a lot less social. When most of the conversations are going to be: "You make me food/waterrr?" and "Ni hao?", you aren't going to have much witty banter. And that's assuming that there aren't whole guilds who have turned on Glider.

A casual play should be able to power through outland in about a week with a death knight.

Being a DK isn't going to shorten the 4-5 hours of play per level that much - not for anything even close to being called 'casual play'.

Face it: A DK has a minimum of 40 hours of gameplay ahead of them once they leave the starting zone, before getting to Northrend. This will be highly competitive play without much instancing or much hope of help from any non-Death Knights.

How many of these announcements are being made before, not at, blizzcon, and how they all line up to be made within days of Warhammer Online's release. While it's normal to try and steal the spotlight from a competitor, this does seem awfully reactionary by Blizzard's normal standards of pr.

For over a year now we have been grinding reputation, grinding gold, and grinding gear. Tier 4, Tier 5, Tier 6, Sunwell, Endless wipes on Kalecgos... And now, back to square one.

Now with "improved" talents, more level grinding, more rep grinding, special attention to things like _hair cuts_.

Completely ignore things that are really important to some people. A self sustaining economy, a trade system that is GOOD or even marginally good... Those who have played Eve KNOW a good trade skill system, and economy..

It's like saying I'd go to Vegas, but I don't want to grind on the slot machines, or BJ tables, or Poker/craps/whatever for a weekend. Pumping money into a slot machine and watching the pretty lights is fun for about a $quarter, but then I'm done. Ohh I could win this car, or this $65k jackpot, or...or...or.

Unless you really have friends in the game, or it continues to be fun, just quit.

I used to be guild leader of a guild in almost exactly the same spot (we had killed Kalecgos), and I realized sometime after the Sunwell patch came out that I was just waiting for an opportunity to quit.

WoW is one of the best games of its kind ever, but you can't play it forever unless you have the right people there with you and you really enjoy it. Otherwise, you will spend too much time for too little return.

My response to the upcoming expansion has been to greatly reduce my time spent playing. It just seems like the current game has lost some of it's charm now that a chunk of new content is on the way. I'm sure that when the expansion hits I'll spend a huge amount of time playing it, but until then I'll focus my spare time on other entertainment options.

For one reason or another a few people stop playing in the face of the oncoming expansion. This puts a strain on grouping/raiding for the players who remain, some of whom will then stop playing. Rinse and repeat.

This started three or so months ago, leaving us where we are now (there's only one guild still raiding 25 mans on my server/faction).

In a seemingly sleazy move, GameStop has added a $15 "Handling Fee" to the WotLK Collector's Edition. Not a SHIPPING and Handling fee mind you, shipping is extra. This is just straight grafting in the style of:

"Oh HO, it seems some of you WANT this product do you? And we're the only one with the Collector's Edition right now! Weeellp, the box is all the way over there on the shelf and I'm kinda tired... maybe an extra $15 could motivate me to lean over there and get it for you. If you don't, I'm sure someon

I thought MMORPG's failed due to Darwinian evolution of their players and (lack of) offspring?
Oh, maybe I'm a few years early.
Sounds awesome, I pre-ordered like 50 copies and will play them all at once until I win and stuff. Plus I'll get the super platinum monthly and farm out some, but not most!, of the play to India.
The MMORPG is dead, Long live the MMORPG!
PS, GFYS

Test Patch Notes Disclaimer: The test realm patch notes only apply to features that exist on the public test realms. We provide these patch notes to players who wish to know what features and changes exist in the test environment in order to more effectively test these features.

- All players will have their talent points reimbursed and will have access to new talents throughout their trees; this includes the 51-point talents. Several new spells and abilities have been added for all classes. Players will need to visit their class trainer to learn new spells.
- The Kirin Tor have made their move and so has Dalaran.Please watch your step around the crater that has been left behind!
- The Barber Shop has been implemented and you can now visit one of the Barber Shops in the major cities to change your appearance. Be sure to get your Shave and a Haircut!
- The all new Achievement System has been implemented and the Achievement panel can be accessed via the interface. While many achievements are not retroactive, we have done our best to credit as many as possible. Gamemasters will not be able to grant achievements for past accomplishements.
- Stormwind Harbor is now open for business.
- New towers have been added outside Of Orgrimmar and in Tirisfal Glades. Crews are currently at work to establish a new Zeppelin route to Northrend for your travel pleasure. Please no/spit off of the towers.
- A new entrance is now viewable in the Caverns of Time.
- Hit Rating, Critical Strike Rating, and Haste Rating now modify both melee attacks and spells.
- Spell casting and spell channeling pushback has been changed to the following:
- When casting a spell:
+ The first and second hit will add.5 secs each to the cast time.
+ All hits after the second will have no effect.
- When channeling a spell:
+ The first and second hit reduces current duration by 25% of total duration each.
+ All hits after the second will have no effect.
- Spellpower:
+ All items and effects which grant bonuses to spell damage and spell healing are being consolidated into a single stat, Spellpower. This stat will appear with the same values found on items which grant âoeincreased spell damage and healingâ such as on typical Mage and Warlock itemization.
# For classes which do not heal, they should see no change in the character sheet other than new tooltip wording.
+ Healing characters will see their bonus healing numbers on the character sheet decrease, however, all healing spells have been modified to receive more benefit from spellpower than they received fr

Thanks, I followed a link to the official site from Massively's coverage of 3.0.2 and didn't notice they were linking to the older patch notes. Someone with mod points mod my post down and one of the posts with the correct notes up!

well, there are those of us on Comcast that had huge issues with some of the patches when throttling was active. Nothing blows more than finding out that patch was 300 MB, you background loaded 290, and those last 10 MB take 2 h to get from blizzard's server at 32 k since P2P is disabled.
EQ went to an "empty box" expansion system (all that's in there is the code). It means horrible downloads if you have to reinstall.

This is the basic reason why owning hard disks of the game is valuable. I downloaded the client for WoW and BC on my laptop. It took me 3 nights to download them, when I could have had the game installed and patched in 1 if I had the disks.

One nice thing about the (current) WoW client is that you don't *have* to install it when moving from one system to another. Just copy everything in the C:\Program Files\World of Warcraft\ folder to the new machine and you'll be off and running.

Or just make sure that you keep a backup copy (or two) of that folder in case you ever want to reinstall.

I don't understand it either. For whatever reason, they have always been horrible about online distribution. When I went to buy my copy (Original game and Burning Legion expansion by the time I got around to joining) I first went online to find out if I could save a little money by downloading without a box. Not only was the available download the same exact price as the retail box but they didn't even have one of the two packages available for download (I think it was the expansion). Why should I pay f

You aren't paying for the box/physical media, you are paying for the effort it took to create the game in the first place. You are telling Blizzard that their years of hard work and dedication are worth $X to you.

Now, they probably see more of that money if you purchase through digital distribution rather than traditional channels. So if you truly love their products and support the company, buy it online so they have more money to dedicate to future development.

I don't buy it. Blizzard are big enough that they could tell retailers, "My way or the highway." WoW fans are gonna buy this drivel whether they can get it at retail or not. Retailers honestly don't have any leverage whatsoever, they can either take whatever scraps Blizzard gives them, or go stock games that aren't going sell. What are they going to threaten, "Don't sell WoW expansions for cheap on-line, or we won't stock StarcraftII/DiabloIII/Blizzard Battlechests! *Lip Quivering*"

First off, not all of us are on unlimited, high-speed broadband. Second, in my experience the official P2P client is abysmal. There are vast numbers of users who never seed at all, making even small patches take an inordinately long time to download.

The price of pressing and packaging discs is negligible, especially with the economy of scale that they're operating on. They're guaranteed sales to retail chains by the hundreds of thousands; a massive, lump sale like that looks a lot better on the spreadshe