To split or not to split?

I would like to see the Beginners' Guide split into a series of separate articles. This would serve to facilitate maintenance, primarily. The page already outlines four parts apt to be split into separate articles. I envision:

Beginners' Guide (essentially, the "Preface" section as it currently stands and "Appendix" at the end)

Additionally, a "complete" version of the guide could be generated at Beginners' Guide/Complete that simply includes all four parts in succession using the {{}} markup. This version would be intended for those printing the guide.

Ideally, I think Part 1 should eventually redirect to the Official Arch Linux Install Guide. I see no need to maintain two installation guides. However, this is an entirely separate discussion.

I appreciate the effort at making the best of a situation. Without a collapsing outline mechanism, the splitting out of the sections into separate articles may be useful. However, at the end of each one, the user needs a large link to get them back to where they started, so that they can continue on with the next step in the install. - KitchM 19:56, 2 December 2010 (EST)

I think it could be a good thing, although I fear that it could ultimately become inconvenient and convoluted. One of the things that has kept the guide so popular and well-regarded is its existence as being self-contained. *Note that there is virtually no negative press on the web about the guide in its current state.* A 'beginner' would simply need to follow it step-by-step and in most cases never need to follow links in order to achieve a relatively complete DE system. At the opposite extreme would be something like the Debian wiki, which exists as innumerable little pages with 'Next Top Previous' et all. I find the Debian wiki to be unruly and a big mess. So, my input is be wary of the guide spiraling into fragmentation, which in my view will render it convoluted and harder to grasp, especially for a beginner. Progress and improvement is always welcomed. Change, however, is not always positive. I truly hope it actually turns out to be an improvement. -my $.02 Misfit138 12:32, 3 December 2010 (EST)

I appreciate your concern, and I too am wary of the Debian "step-by-step" style installation guide. However, ArchWiki has matured immensely since the Beginners' Guide was originally written and designed. Before, many supplementary articles did not exist or were of inferior quality. Now, however, we enjoy a wide range of well-written, detailed articles covering a respectable number of topics.

I believe it is time to rethink the goal of the Beginners' Guide. What is its purpose and intended audience?

To cover all aspects of installing and configuring Arch Linux? Then it certainly fails in this respect, and needs much expansion. (For example, it doesn't even explain how to install OpenOffice! Who decided that audio/sound deserves mention here but not printing?)

To simply guide new users through installation of a basic Arch Linux system and configuring a graphical environment? Then we're close, but there is some unnecessary cruft here.

In my opinion, this guide should serve to bring users to the point where they can browse the rest of ArchWiki in a comfortable graphical environment (that is, Xorg + web browser). Then, they are free to pick-and-choose which extra components they wish to install and follow detailed (dedicated) guides on each. After all, are Arch Linux users not expected to search the wiki/forums first for help?

My primary concern is, and always has been, duplication of effort. The recent flood of edits required by the drastic changes in recent versions of Xorg is an excellent example of why maintaining two Xorg installation guides is problematic. By splitting the Beginners' Guide, we can eventually replace the GUI section with selected sections of a well-written Xorg article using available wiki tools (includeonly/noinclude are not reserved for templates alone). Similarly, as I mentioned above, the installation section can eventually be replaced by a drastically improved Official Arch Linux Install Guide (this is a very long-term goal). With careful consideration and planning, I am sure these changes will be positive in the long-term.

Yes, pointone, I agree fully and am all for progress and improvement, and your reasoning is sound. I'm also very happy that I am not the only one afraid of the Debian-style wiki threat. Thank you for acknowledging this. I have beaten this drum around here for years. Misfit138 11:08, 8 December 2010 (EST)

Splitting the article might be a good idea, but I don't like the idea of graphics being covered in two different articles, so I'm going to do what makes sense - move installing Xorg to the GUI section (basically just have to move the part 4 header). This also makes me wonder why we cover sound here and not in a Sound article instead - which would let us give people more choice between ALSA and OSS, and also let us mention PulseAudio and JACK for people who want them on top of ALSA/OSS. Sound isn't required for people to have a GUI web browser/text editor that they're comfortable with, which seems to be the purpose of this guide. thestinger 13:55, 3 December 2010 (EST)

The ALSA article has also improved quite a bit, and it will probably work for more people than the sound section here, which doesn't even cover alsaconf. It's sort of similar to how the DE articles improved to the point that they were easier to follow than this guide thestinger 14:01, 3 December 2010 (EST)

I am all for the creation of a surveySound article. Allowing Multiple Programs to Play Sound could serve as the base (it desperately needs clean-up and expansion). I don't think sound deserves coverage in the Beginners' Guide, really. -- pointone 14:15, 9 December 2010 (EST)

4.1 Configuring the network

Most of this section is a repeat of info already presented earlier in the guide (most notably in 3.1.1).

I understand that directing users to 3.1.1 when they've already got a system up and running isn't that great of an idea since they are no longer in the live environment and some things are different (but not much!), but surely something can be done to reduce the redunancy (especially on the 4.1.2 Wireless LAN section, which is basically a 1:1 copy of 3.1.1.2) Xgamer99 19:49, 8 January 2011 (EST)

Went ahead and made the edit, as I can't see anything wrong with it. Please let me know if you disagree. However, I still believe that 4.1 should be re-worked and merged with 3.1.1, and just have 4.1 direct users to it. The only thing that would need to be added is the Proxy settings and manual wired connection (installer handles wired connections flawlessly, so manual activation isn't covered in 3.1.1). Xgamer99 04:00, 9 January 2011 (EST)

Splitting into sub pages

I just migrated all the data to different sub-pages as discussed here...

The pages are designed in such a way that all of the content resides on the sub pages and are linked to (included) from the main Beginners' Guide page. This creates the illusion of a complete, and lengthy, one-page guide for those who prefer it. This should make everyone happy. =D It also creates pages for those who prefer that. Note that the content is not copied, but instead is linked, like templates. This means that two copies of the same thing are not maintained -- change the source, and you change both the 'complete' and 'paged' views.

Editing is much the same also. If you traditionally use the in-article [edit] links, you'll be presented with the text from the sub page seamlessly. If you edit via the Edit button at the top of the page, then you must go to the sub page itself and edit it (since the main page will have no content to edit).

One thing to note is how to use anchor tags between sub pages. If you're editing, say, the "About This Guide" section where it links to the major sections of the guide, you need to take into consideration that the reader might either be a) reading it from the 'complete' page, where the link would only need to be #PageAnchor, or b) reading it on the different sub pages in which case it will need to be linked like so: Beginners' Guide/PageName#Section. The easiest way to do this is to use the <noinclude> tag like so: Beginners' Guide/PageName#Section. That way, if the reader is reading the entire guide on one page, the Beginners' Guide/PageName will not be included. But if the user is directly on the seperate sub pages, it will be included. Please keep both 'complete' and 'page' viewers in mind when linking to information located on different sub pages. Also, please note that this does not matter on info located on the same page; it can still be linked to via the regular #Section syntax. --Xgamer99 15:02, 12 January 2011 (EST)

Splitting the 'Installation' section in the split version?

Even after the split the Installation section is still a bit long. Couldn't it be split into two pages? --Det 07:24, 12 August 2011 (EDT)

Reiser4?

Reiser4 is by far a better choice for /var than ReiserFS, if you don't count the bugs that may still exist. The latest support is for 2.6.38 but is that a reason to not even mention it? --Det 11:02, 14 August 2011 (EDT)

Reiser4 is not supported by the installation media. Misfit138 21:16, 15 August 2011 (EDT)

Please edit the Guide. Are you going to go over it checking every little step? That would be very welcome :-) -- Karol 18:12, 12 September 2011 (EDT)

This slipped passed me, fixed now. Heheh, I caught it while I was going over the Spanish translation. I intend to go through again and proofread both at some point, but haven't had the inspiration. | Emiralle 20:00, 5 October 2011 (EDT)

Just reminding that a slight change in the navigation bar will be needed: Preface >> Preparation >> Installation >> Post-Installation >> Extra/Appendix

I'd really like to read more opinions though, because the Beginners' Guide is the most visited article of the wiki and restructuring must be done with care and consensus. Also I think that we should edit accordingly all the existing translations immediately, to avoid confusion among both readers and maintainers.

Moved to Beginners' Guide/Extra + some related changes (see my contribs), now having lunch and completing the changes ^^ -- Kynikos 07:45, 30 October 2011 (EDT)

Update: Spanish and Italian versions should be aligned, the goal is changing the Template:i18n inclusion to Beginners' Guide/Extra. -- Kynikos 09:28, 30 October 2011 (EDT)

Update: About Russian, Serbian and Simplified Chinese, I've just renamed Appendix to Extra, but I've not actually moved the respective Extra sections there because I was afraid to break something. Everything should be working fine now, I've also fixed the navigation templates in other languages.

This request seems to be fulfilled now, I'm closing it, if you have something to add just reopen it :) -- Kynikos 10:02, 30 October 2011 (EDT)

Great idea! I had been thinking the same thing myself...the logical ordering is not quite correct and the proposed re-arrangement is much better. Also, Option 3 is a required follow-up to Option 2. I have edited the guide in a few places to make this clearer. --Sportscliche 03:54, 15 November 2011 (EST)

Settings for dd in 2.1.3.1

The default value for bytes written/read per time in dd is normally 512 bytes, which can make the performance for dd ridiculously slow and processor usage high in some cases. I recommend adding the options ibs=4M obs=4M in the code snippet.