1. curriculum review template created.

DISCS Planning Kick-Off Meeting, March 26, 2003

Issues / Plans

New Chair: Didith Rodrigo

Research Program

Goal: create more structure in our research

Proposal: form "research groups"

"Hard to actually come up with a formal research group, unlike in the
US where research groups are composed of several faculty and students
and they actually get grants and funding. We don't necessarily have
that, but we can at least form research groups. Take a look at the LCS
website. You can see that they have general topics, and then under
these are particular groups. If you go to their group website, you'll
see that typically the group website is divided into people,
publications and projects. Directory. Different projects. It's kind of
a loosely formed group, and maybe that's something we can do for
now. My idea is basically, I want to be able to - well - organize our
webpage and say in Ateneo we have these research groups, and list the
faculty, students, theses and ongoing projects. This can be a loosely
organized group. It doesn't have to be a focused group. For example,
you can list all the multimedia stuff together. At least a semblance
of structure. Eventually, when you have these groups, then people can
talk to each other. They know what different people are working
on. We're hoping that more people will be encouraged."

Open Source - sacha, doc mana, gino, william, marco

Computational Science and Grid Computing - john paul, luis, jon

Theory of Computation - bong, jon, john paul, beth, doc mana

Others?

Now that we have the groups, maybe someone in that group can take care of collecting projects and fixing the web page

Curriculum Review

Goals:

update our curriculum

identify 'must-haves' for our curriculum

integrate into current subjects

create new subjects / recreate subjects if necessary

make sure we satisfy ACM and CHED minimum requirements

be innovative and daring!

ACM 2001 - look at page 17 to 21, list of body of knowledge. Page 20, 21 - example of how you can do a curriculum.
Different approaches.

New things in ACM Curriculum 2001

objects-first is now a "standard" option

"net-centric computing" is now a major core topic group. Something for us to look into because we're already doing a bit of that. We start them out with network programming already. We should also integrate net-centric thinking into all the other subjects. Doesn't just mean the CS154 course, where you talk about setting up networks, but writing programs that run on top of the network. Maybe even multimedia could benefit.

curriculum document actually gives sample syllabi for different classes and different styles

IS curriculum - previously it was just CS. Haven't looked at this one yet.

New Topics I think We _Should_ Integrate

web-centric computing

web front-end programming, web services

enterprise computing

you probably have to deal with enterprise systems, and I don't
know what you need in order to be able to do that. We should think
about that.

distributed systems (incl. WAN systems and clustered systems)
beyond what we teach in CS21B and think about that. I don't know
if we need to add another class where they do distributed
computing. Required class perhaps for enterprise computing?

database-backed web-based systems (incl. JDBC, .NET, etc)

B2B, B2C

(note: this may also be relevant for e-learning). I think e-learning is still a specific thing for now. Knowledge management.

Didith: Our interests are dovetailing because they mix strong
capabilities in certain areas. We should work again on the core CS
competencies and reinforce them. So many of our efforts have
focused on our interests and bahala na yung core subjects. I think
it's a good idea to go back to our core subjects. I don't quite
know how to deal with the research subjects. If it's just to fill
the 3 units, why don't you get something else? Unless you see
yourself as practicing, it's not going to be relevant to you. They
seem to cater to a very specific crowd, and I don't know. It needs
to be rethought.
Luis: Maybe we can think about generalizing what you learn... Instead of e-learning, think of knowledge management.
Need to rethink for the undergrads. While it's nice that the classes are filled, you can see that they're only taking it for the credits...
Luis: ACM, number of hours per topic. You dedicate one or two lectures on this topic and put it in some class. We might be able to put e-learning as a required topic in some other class.
Didith: Even the multimedia... fine, we have the intro to multimedia class. Some people are looking for something more advanced. Computation. They want to get into compression and rendering algorithms. (Mention of Eric Vidal). There seems to be interest in more advanced multimedia topics. Niches? Development of simulations. Simulations are not necessarily for learning. It can be offered as an elective. Discussed under CAI, but lip service. Simulation can be a subject in itself. For example, scientific.
Fr. Nebres. Thrust toward computational science.

mis buzzwords

crm, scm, cmm

advanced topics elective in MIS

open source

including methodologies and tools such as CVS, etc.

CS161, CS23 - maybe some things on methodology

wireless?

to what extent do we integrate it into our curriculum?

quality assurance suggested by Ariel

any others?

doesn't have to be a separate subject. Could just be a quick lecture.

Bong: One person should do an industry scan.
Luis: We need to involve alumni. Self-survey. We haven't been involving alumni directly into our curriculum reviews for the past few times. I think maybe one person or a small group of people can be in charge of doing the industry scan, and everyone else is welcome to contribute. Point person for that. We'll assign tasks later.

Didith: Suggestion. Consult with our mentors and advisors from the different schools so that we can get their perspective.
Didith will do it. Pierre also, from his position.

Some ideas

CS21B

design patterns

RMI and/or servlets

J2ME?

CS122

JDBC

discuss clustering

introduce data mining, data warehousing, etc.

Feedback: we should discuss performance and ways to improve it, like clustering and stuff.

Ariel: Nagging problem. Time constraint. This sem we weren't able to discuss JDBC because of time constraints. Nagging problem, explored in the last curriculum review. Solution proposed, two semesters?

Luis: Topics *:* course

CS161?

suggestion for CS, CS161+CS23 -> CS162a&b

Luis: Was talking to William. Kind of a mess this year. I think we should split the MIS and the CS again.

Ariel: Ayoko na!

CS112: Programming Languages

XML, Perl, LaTeX, Python, make your own language, etc.

LISP!

New course. Structure of programming languages.

Intent: Compiler theory. Part of automata.

JPV: Sequencing is important. Problem of irreconcilable groups.

Luis: Try to map out what we have right now by the hour.

(Note. Doc Luis flunked the programming part of the MIT diagnostic thing because it was in Scheme.)

CS123

Design patterns

Web services

Enterprise systems

These are just a few random ideas

The Plan

everyone please browse through ACM curricula in order to be "inspired"

divide into groups

review existing subjects

include alumni

suggest change

iterate

have 1 or 2 "big meetings" where everyone can see the emerging "big picture"

Dialogue about Visual Basic

Doc Mana: Maybe not the CS students, but maybe the MIS students might be interested in learning Visual Basic. I think we should have a pool of Visual Basic programmers we can draw from.

Luis: I would rather do a .NET thing.

Doc Mana: Isn't .NET that Microsoft thing?

Everyone: So is VB.

Mathematics

Luis: We need to reconsider the math requirements. The ACM team, that was one of their weak points. Our sophomores are flunking their math.

Luis: Can we do a calculus for computer scientists?

Mike: They do that in ECCE. There's a math for engineers. They're teaching it

Doc Mana: We can teach calculus like Math 20.

Luis: Abstract algebra? Statistics is also very useful.

Doc Mana: The kind of calculus they teach in the BM program.

Doc V: Points. Very controversial. Turf issue. You don't want it to evolve into everyone teaching their own math. Second, core curriculum constraints with math. Some discussions. Core curriculum for science programs? It's not fully within our control. Output should be these are the type of things we think we need.

Doc Mana: Think they will require Ma101?

Doc V: Think students are a problem.

Doc Mana: Why should it be a problem now, when it wasn't with you and Didith?

Doc V: Has been a problem ever since. Usual concern - top 10% of those who applied in math. They may not be enough for the Math department.

Doc Luis: Big group failing Ma22.

Doc V: Lower target group. We have a whopping 7 out of 70 confirmees with two weeks to go.

CS Hour

Bong: Optional fourth hour.

Pierre: Tutorials. Optional.

Doc V: Tools course. Virginia Tech. 1 unit.

Luis: Sa MIT, ganoon din.

Luis: Warning about regular basis and peer pressure.

Didith: Seminars.

DocV: Keep hour free.

Luis: CS hour.

Luis: Monday, 4:30 - 6? Parallel sessions?

Eugene: Org-assisted? Use activity hour?

Luis: In fact, it should be org-assisted.

Bong: We give the structure, they implement it.

DocV: We can sustain it. Maybe we'll even give allowances. We can make that evolve. Increase our student assistant fund.

Luis: Parallel sessions.

Bong: CompSAT and MISA.

What to do

Luis: Course outlines and hours per topic. Suggest changes. Don't try to solve it yet. We need to be able to get feedback from the alumni. Very crucial. Need to know what's out there. Generate a wishlist of what you want to add. Everyone needs to see what the demand is. Ideally, I would like to raise the bar on our students as well. Try to push them. Reviewing our subjects...

JPV: Milestones and deliverables so that it's a little clearer. Schedules also.

3. Meeting on April 26, 2003

Dr. Sarmenta still isn't here, so...

9:19. We begin.

Dr. Rodrigo: No touchy feely stuff so we're just going to jump right

in. Luis is not yet here, so what Toby was suggesting was that we'll
just start with a look at the various subcultures at the department
and our research interestes. Perhaps we can begin with a few words
from our dean.

Dr. Dayrit: Good morning. Well I'm glad that DISCS is undertaking the
planning meeting. Just for the info of everyone, each of the
departments was given the option to do their own planning meeting. In
fact chem, bio, ES, math, ECE, Physics... you're the last group in the
school. The planning meeting is really all about.. when you make juice
and you leave it for a while, the flavor settles at the bottom. The
planning meeting is all about stirring up the juice and making it
taste better. After this the cahirs will have a planning meeting, so
we'll do it at all the levels. I just have a few words I have
prepared, and then maybe you can do an open forum if you want to ask
questions. The first thing I'd like to talk about is the department
itself, and here I'm referring to culture and culture management. I
guess it's something that many groups take for granted. What makes
Ateneo different from other schools? The culture. What makes DISCS
unique? The culture of DISCS in relation to other departments and
other schools. Might not be into that business, but that's how people
work together. Likes, dislikes, priorities... Two departments that
have a fairly well-established culture. Chem: in the case of chem, you
can see that for the longest time (15 or 20 years) there have been 4
prominent personalities: Schmitt, Kapawan, Chua and Javellana. Those
four people, when they came in, I took my chem 1971, they were there.
When I returned, they were still there. They didn't start passing away
until 96 or so. THey're very strong - maybe to a fault - but they
really took pains to establish the practices and ways of doing things
and very important was mentoring, the way they took care of younger
faculty and students. That's one example of a group - certainly you
need people who are senior within the group to take care of the
culture and the set it. The other department would be Math. What
happened there was that long ago, the seniors were Dr. Manalastas, Dr.
Marasigan, Mari-jo Ruiz, Quimpo, but now that they're moving along,
they also have to build up the next line. They have a number of next
line faculty who are ready to take up the responsibilities. I guess
I'm mentioning this because although we don't recognize it in many
departments, we should be aware that there is such a thing. In the
case of DISCS - because most of the computer programmers are young and
the turnovr is fairly high - (entrance of DocV: eto, isa pang bata
'to) the models of Chem and maMath might not be appropriate, but the
need is there. You need culture-bearers. It's useful for everyone to
be aware of this, and perhaps the senior faculty will be more aware of
their role. What we really need is mentoring, and for everyone - we're
really trying to develop the practice of mentoring. The other thing
that is unique about DISCS is that you have two main programs. WHile
both are about computers, the backgrounds are not the same. Both ahve
their own demands professionally as well in terms of research. I don't
know all the details about how you plan to differentiate between CS
and MIS, but that's for the group to talk about. I don't think it's a
matter of separating them, but knowing what the expectations are for
people who are dedicating themselves to either field. Obviously the
ways the fields move are different. The other thing about DISCS is
that we should have people interact more with each other. We're
working on some interdisciplinary projects, so it's important for the
DISCS faculty to be involved with the other departments. Priority
setting. DISCS and ECCE are both pulled in many directions. What would
be important for the group (you've heard the analogy of big rocks and
little rocks? If you had a container and you had different-sized
rocks, you put the big ones first, that's basically what
priority-setting is about.) Personally, what are your big rocks? You
put in the others after you have put in the big rocks. What are the
big rocks for the group? THe goalds and projects that are most
important for the success of the group? After you have put that, you
can put the smaller rocks in. I think that's very important, because
you have many rocks to put in. After having done that or while you are
doing that, you should set clear and verifiable goals. Tendency is
that you make attractive-sounding goals, but you don't say how to find
out if you are moving in that direction. Say you want to be the leader
in HPC, but what are the achievables? It also means that those should
be strategic, since there are so many things that attract your
attention. You need to identify the most important ones and which ones
you can let go. Note about the AMA advertisement. You're not in the
same marketa s AMA, but you also have to project your own personality.
FInally, I'd just like to mention some of the priorities which we'd
like to do in the school. Plan to put up compuational sciences
program. We've been discussing this for a few months now. Last
summer's workshop among the faculty on computer science - the problem
with most of the faculty, especially (not counting Phuysics and ECCE),
most faculty are experimental. They got their degrees through
experimental work. Not much background in computational stuff. For
computational sciences to work, the three components that you need are
an upgraded or appropriate background in math, the computer science
part, and the discipline. If we're going to make computational science
work, we need those three things. Maybe a double-degree, the way
ChemCE and PhysicsCE are organized? First degree would be in any of
the sciences, and the second would be in computational science.
Example. One possibility. The other possibility is that if they
already have the appropriate background, we develop a masters or PhD
program in computational science. Question from Dr. Rodrigo. Modeling,
high performance computing. For example: weather modeling, modeling
materials, pollution.. using computer tools with the appropriate
mathematical theorems to come up with the model. The two possibilities
there are dualdegree program or, if they have a strong BS degree
already, do a master's in computational science. Fr. Ben mentioned a
few months ago when we talked that in terms of capabilities and
maximizing our resources then that's a good way to dgo. Related to the
computational science thrust is, of course, facilities. We have to fix
and upgrade beowulf and bayanihan. We already have a handle on these
two resources, but we need to get them to work and people to use them.
And of course you all know about the Java wireless center. Luis has
already signed a MOA about it. The other big activity of the DISCS
group could be the e-learning stuff. These three big things are
enabling centers, because other departments can use them and you can
use them for your own purposes. So that's a big chunk of work. The
other thing that I7d like to discuss with you is... when you go to
school, the basic skills that are taughts are languages and math.
That's for general education. AS for science, it's been math. So
everyone takes math. But I think that we should make computer
languages standard for everyone. Computer literacy - raising the
level. I think we should raise the bar a bit higher. Knowledge in
Linux? discipline-specific? upgrading the comkputer skills of both
students and faculty is something we shoudl cosnider. Upgrading
students is easier, since we just add a course requirement. Harder to
upgrade faculty. We want to have faculty teach other faculty and get
credit for it. We can get courses where one of the faculty members
teaches the course and the students are other teachers who want to
learn the topic. So anywya, those are the ideas that I7ve put down, so
if you have any questions or comments that II'd like to hear from
you...

Question from DocV: Since you mentioned computational sciences, there
was informal talk on a SoSE core... Is that going to happen in the
short term? SHould we take that into consideration when we review?

It's really actually more for the other departments that do not have
an explicit computer science requirement in their curriculum. Biology
does not have an explicit computer science requirement. You can't just
add a new course, so we have to merge it into another course -
biostats?

Maybe you can give your students the option to take bio, chem or ES?
It might be useful for them to have a science base. I guess the
approach there would be... In a way, DISCS and Math have the same
problem. The math people also have to improve their background in any
of the sciences. On the experimental sciences side, it's for them to
upgrade their computer and math skills, and on the computer science side...
Better if we do it as a school.

DOc Mana: Are we to understand that as a matter of policy, the SoSE is
requiring a common computing course for all BS degree holders? Maybe
not common, because they all have different needs. At least the level
of their computational training will be higher than what it is now.
If they don't have
the background to determine what they need, we have to help them. If
the biologists don't have an idea of what their computational needs
are, we'll try to look for a way to support that. It varies field to
field. In ES, there isn't anyone with a strong CS background, so
they'll probably need help.

DocV: "Science and engineering majors shoudl take these topics in
science and at least three units in computing methods?" We might be
short on science, they might be short on CS and math... Consensus of
all the departments, so that the rationale is clear. Their curricula are full, so drastic changes will meet resistance.

DocV: Maybe we can call a
meeting about math. .
Sectioning?

DocV: IT minor? Eteves: QMIT offers IT courses for the minors,
students are allowed to take subjects from DISCS. DocD: It's difficult
to control. Lots of demand for IT. Program or product level. What edge
does an MIS major have over someone that completes that program? Maybe
that's a good way of looking at it. The bar is being raised every so
often; the bar for excellence in IT. Maybe we should keep track of
that so that MIS has its own personality. DocV: Nomenclature? DocM: I
think that if other departments want to teach an IT course for their
needs, they might be better at doing that. For example, if Physics
wanted to do that... CS and IT are very new, being defined from year
to year, it's a growing field. We should be tolerant so that all the
other departments think they can do a better job. (<laugh>) DocV:
Later on, you'll encounter issues of equivalence... More of
coordination instead of turf. DocD: See how the program stay ahead of
everyone. DocG: What body coordinates this? DocV: Curriculum doesn't
handle the issues. THe're only beginning to hangle the issue of
minors. It's not part of their explicit mandate to worry about that.
DocD: Maybe you can talk to Chita. DocR: Queena chairs the committee,
right? DocG: Maybe there should be agreement enforced by certain
bodies in the university. DocV: Interdisciplinary courses should
probably need the approval of the main department. DocM: Need
automatic dialogue. DocR: Even just a protocol. If QMIT wants to ffer
an IT course, maybe they should come to us first. DocT: Also, there's
confusion outside. They think that expertise is in the management
group or in CS, it creates a bit of confusion there. DocR: Extending
that idea, we need to be very clear about what our majors are supposed
to be when they graduate. Our MIS majors and our CS majors ahve the
exact same entry positions. Long term we'll talk about it. What is the
product we're trying to create? DocM: I think the fresh graduates are
hired not because they're CS majors, but because they're Ateneo
graduates. DocD: Well, I guess the other thing which we're trying to
push would be the publications, and I think that if you can get your
enabling centers running well, computational faciltiies, etc., the
people who approach you and seek your help, if you do collaboration
well, that actually increases your chances for publication without you
doing everything. Later on,t that's how you build up your reputation.
Maybe that's another thing we can try to work in. Priority areas of
DOST - bioinformatics is one. The other would be space technology.
We're not going launch any satellites, but it's more of data we can
use from space technology - GPS? Anything you can gather from
satellite tech. If there's anything you can mine from
that... environmental quality, water, air... If you put all these
together, you actually have opportunities for getting funding and
publishing.

Industry scan

What we basically want to clear out is the undergraduate programs
for CS and MIS. There are actually two major inputs over and above
Toby's input: the ACM documents and the industry scan.

We e-mailed our graduates from CS and MIS. It was convenience
sampling. We put together 5 questions - batch, position, corporation,
entry-level positions for our rads, career path, skills, tech dominant
next five years, implication on our curriculum. Targeted people still
in the CS and MIS fields. For the CS part, a lot were already AVPs,
project managers, technical managers... Many were working for
consulting companies. A couple are with insurance companies. A lot
were with vendors. A few from media - inq7 and some media houses that
make web pages. Without exception, our graduates come in as
programmers. To get in, employers are lopoking for a combination of
technical and soft skills. Career path: big companies,
management-oriented. Long haul, really more management oriented. To
advance, need technical, but premium on soft. Java, Java, Java.
Wireless. wearables. Web servies. More SAD, SE, change management,
client and provider relationship management.

Doc Mana: Wireless, what do they mean?

Olpoc:

Technical track - very vertical, takes time.

Doc Tagle: Usually, programmers who have soft skills have more avenues
of progressing up the ladder. Differentiates them from those from
other schools.

Curriculum review: Dr. Sarmenta

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