I've been trying some games out lately (I couldn't get very far into Gothic. It's real hard;)) and I find that I really enjoy games that have a "crafting" system to them. Even The Witcher's alchemy system satisfies my need to create things and I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of a couple games that have unique or extensive crafting systems to play with.

Scrav

December 20th, 2010, 01:04

The first game that comes to mind is Minecraft. I'm not sure what type of genre it would be classed as. Certainly not your traditional rpg, but it does have rpg elements in it. It is a game based around creation in a survivalist/sandbox type world with quite a large following.

Corwin

December 20th, 2010, 04:49

If you can find it, try Seal of Evil; most extensive crafting system in an RPG I think I've ever seen.

HiddenX

December 20th, 2010, 06:52

Evil Islands: Curse of the Lost Soul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evil_Islands:_Curse_of_the_Lost_Soul)

Maylander

December 20th, 2010, 10:09

NWN2 and both add-ons had decent crafting systems in my opinion. Age of Wonders: Shadow Magic had a pretty interesting system too.

Generally, crafting is pretty crap though.

Dwagginz

December 20th, 2010, 11:56

If you're still looking at MMOs, Vanguard is meant to have a very good crafting system.

Fallout: New Vegas also has a fairly good one, although it's possibly slightly more shallow/lightweight than The Witcher's system.

Ergonpandilus

December 20th, 2010, 12:16

For me Ultima Online has great crafting system. You can even devote your character only for crafting. Basically half of the skills are related to crafting…

UO list of the skills (http://uo.stratics.com/php-bin/show_content.php?content=30493).

DArtagnan

December 20th, 2010, 12:27

I can't really remember a singleplayer CRPG that has a strong crafting system. I liked Gothic 2 - because you actually did all the things needed when crafting your swords, but I don't remember how it worked for other things.

The best MMO in terms of crafting, that I've tried personally, would probably be Ultima Online - because you could create pretty much everything, and you could dye armor and so on. SWG is supposed to have had a fantastic crafting system, but I never actually tried crafting in it.

I think crafting in MMOs should be much more about personalising your items, and make them stand out in some way. Vanguard had an incredibly complex system, and I found it really interesting - but I never got far, as the game itself sucked.

But I think it's key to a truly great sandbox MMO to let players put their personal touches on the items they craft, so there's a reason to buy it from them - instead of making all players make the exact same crap.

WoW has a particularly horrible crafting system, as it's just another grind with zero customisation.

Making meaningful crafting in a true 3D environment is VERY hard, though, as each object you make in the world has to be represented by an actual 3D object, which means additional rendering load for nearby players.

GothicGothicness

December 20th, 2010, 13:58

Making meaningful crafting in a true 3D environment is VERY hard, though, as each object you make in the world has to be represented by an actual 3D object, which means additional rendering load for nearby players.

Actually with the current tech used in most MMORPG's it is not even possible. Because the data used by the meshes rendered by the game is on your computers hard-drive. So if a player create a unique object either it needs to be downloaded togheter with a patch or only visible to that player.

dteowner

December 20th, 2010, 14:04

http://www.ataleinthedesert.com/

Back in the days of the Dot, Val got pretty deep into Tale in the Desert. It's an MMO, but it actually focuses on crafting. I never tried it, but might be worth a look.

DArtagnan

December 20th, 2010, 14:11

Actually with the current tech used in most MMORPG's it is not even possible. Because the data used by the meshes rendered by the game is on your computers hard-drive. So if a player create a unique object either it needs to be downloaded togheter with a patch or only visible to that player.

That's not a problem, you just make players download everything that could potentially be created, as data, during installation. If they add new objects, they can just make that part of the natural patching process as updates get released.

The problem is creating a world that's flexible enough to have things like "unrestricted housing" available to thousands of players - and objects that can exist in the world, like furniture outside the house. Such things need to be restricted and can be a huge design pain, if you allow players to design things for themselves. You need to take into account what will happen when objects that are not planned for, appear in the world to everyone near them. Hard to test for such things.

It's doable though, but it needs the proper design philosophy. Vanguard had housing working in the open world, for instance - and I do believe SWG had it also.

wolfing

December 20th, 2010, 14:20

Actually with the current tech used in most MMORPG's it is not even possible. Because the data used by the meshes rendered by the game is on your computers hard-drive. So if a player create a unique object either it needs to be downloaded togheter with a patch or only visible to that player.

Not only that, but then how do you police the teenagers (in mind) making all the different genitalia representations :)

blatantninja

December 20th, 2010, 14:41

Who says it's only teenagers? :)

I love the IDEA of crafting systems, but I've never found them that useful. In NWN2, I went around grabbing or buying all sorts of materials to do some crafting, then realized that the weapons you can buy or find were ever bit as good and since you acquire gold so quick, it made crafting pointless.

skavenhorde

December 20th, 2010, 14:46

NWN2 definitely needs a mod to make crafting a viable option. I also liked the crafting aspect in NWN2, but then realized I had better stuff and it was pointless carrying around all that gear. Too bad too because it was a neat little addition to the game.

bkrueger

December 20th, 2010, 14:51

Who says it's only teenagers? :)

I love the IDEA of crafting systems, but I've never found them that useful. In NWN2, I went around grabbing or buying all sorts of materials to do some crafting, then realized that the weapons you can buy or find were ever bit as good and since you acquire gold so quick, it made crafting pointless.

That is the main issue, which makes crafting useless in many games: You either have too much money to fast, so you can buy everything anyway, or you find loot, which is better than things you can craft at your current level. I suspect game developers do this in order to allow people to play the game without crafting. So crafting is a useless "nice to have" in many games.

To the OP:
I liked the crafting system in Drakensang. I even dedicated some of my companions for specific crafting abilities and left them in my house otherwise.

In the second game, River of time, there are even some fun side-quests connected to crafting.

blatantninja

December 20th, 2010, 15:08

I always thought it would be interesting to have a game where magic items were exceedingly rare, so if you wanted one, you'd have to find the parts, then find someone (or get high level enough yourself) to make it. And of course the items would have to be scarce enough to make you really think about what you wanted to make.

Alrik Fassbauer

December 20th, 2010, 15:26

In Drakensang 2, there are a few high-level items that must be assembled by crafted pieces you assembled before.

Drakensang 1 also has a few of them, but not many. I mean these assembled, high-class items (like Swords or bows or Crossbows).

An example : For a high-class sword (one of the best swords available within the game, I thin, but very, very expensive to built !) you needed

- a hilt
- counterweight
- an already upgraded sword

… Well, I don't remember anything anymore …

I liked the graphical representation of crafting in Gothic 1.

jakebaker13

December 20th, 2010, 18:34

There certainly has been some interesting suggestions. I wasn't even aware the Gothics had crafting. I really need to improve my skills quick so I can survive the first two games. (I found the third one easy.)

I'm not really interested in MMO's anymore. I tried a few out and that style of game just isn't for me.

What about Divinity II: DKS? Does that have anything going for it? I thought that looked interesting.

wolfing

December 21st, 2010, 00:29

There certainly has been some interesting suggestions. I wasn't even aware the Gothics had crafting. I really need to improve my skills quick so I can survive the first two games. (I found the third one easy.)

I'm not really interested in MMO's anymore. I tried a few out and that style of game just isn't for me.

What about Divinity II: DKS? Does that have anything going for it? I thought that looked interesting.

There are a bunch of PS2 RPGs that are based on crafting. The Mana Khemia games, and I think the Ars Tonelico games also are heavy on crafting. Oh and the Star Ocean games, among others.

Alrik Fassbauer

December 21st, 2010, 16:06

The only thing I can think of going into the direction of crafting in Divinity 2 is … your summonable "comrade".
You can collect parts for the creature, and combine them.

Dwagginz

December 21st, 2010, 16:24

The only thing I can think of going into the direction of crafting in Divinity 2 is … your summonable "comrade".
You can collect parts for the creature, and combine them.
And there's the potion making and armour/weapon enchantments.

Alrik Fassbauer

December 21st, 2010, 16:29

Ah, yes, thanks for the reminder. :)

blatantninja

December 21st, 2010, 16:34

Just thought of another 'crafting' system - Worlds of Ultima: Martian Dreams. Obviously very old school and very basic! However, I remember that you could get a shotgun, but to fire it you had to collect the components for black powder. I think there were a few other weapons you needed to assemble as well.

skavenhorde

December 24th, 2010, 18:07

Holy cow, I had forgotten all about Martian Dreams. Very cool, very steampunk even before steampunk was popular.

But I believe you're thinking of Savage Empire's crafting system. That's the main thing I loved about that game because the magic sucked big time. Can't remember how many spells they had, but it wasn't many. Although the ingredients for the spells were unique to the Ultima Universe like cocoa and some others. IIRC you had to use skulls to cast spells. Don't really remember that part too clearly, but I do remember making gunpowder which was used for the rifle you made or for grenades.

Would love for Exult to redo those games. A larger resolution would do wonders for those games.

curious

December 24th, 2010, 21:43

speaking of steampunk Arcanum had an interesting crafting system as well that often involved pulling things out of trash cans to make something you needed.

skavenhorde

December 25th, 2010, 20:05

Also a great game and also loved the crafting system. A lot of people complained about having to have carry around or store so many components, but I didn't mind. Being a pack rat myself I had no problems finding a few safe places to store the stuff until I had a use for it.

Inventor/gun slinger is still my favorite character to play in Arcanum.

blatantninja

January 3rd, 2011, 15:35

Holy cow, I had forgotten all about Martian Dreams. Very cool, very steampunk even before steampunk was popular.

But I believe you're thinking of Savage Empire's crafting system. That's the main thing I loved about that game because the magic sucked big time. Can't remember how many spells they had, but it wasn't many. Although the ingredients for the spells were unique to the Ultima Universe like cocoa and some others. IIRC you had to use skulls to cast spells. Don't really remember that part too clearly, but I do remember making gunpowder which was used for the rifle you made or for grenades.

Would love for Exult to redo those games. A larger resolution would do wonders for those games.

That's right, it was Savage Empire. There was a shotgun in Martian Dreams, but I guess you didn't have to make your own ammo!

There was a project out there, Nuvie IIRC, to redo the engine with the original data files. I believe it died though. Too bad. With new engine, replacing the tilesets would have been pretty easy.